Why does the media always turn its attention to looting when black citizens protest? The history of violent white rioting in black communities, or the history of violent protest in America in general, is never mentioned. The Boston Tea Party would be unimaginable today. I can just see the "patriots" marching in circles, carrying signs.
8
Being black in this country is a death sentence in waiting, doled out by the police forces of the "United" States at their discretion and whim. It's disgusting. I don't blame any African American for revolting. What choice have police given them? It doesn't matter if you have your hands up? It doesn't matter if you're unarmed or not. All that matters is that if you are black, you could get shot and the "justice" system will not only exonerate the officer committing the murder, but give them paid vacation as a thank you for doing so. They would be crazy to not revolt in protest.
8
'Civilian on civilian' has little or no meaning where protests always have police infiltrators in civilian clothes.
4
Now that the police have recovered the gun that the suspect threatened them with will the"protestors" issue an apology?
By the way, the deceased also had a history of gun violations and no record of ever having a library card.
By the way, the deceased also had a history of gun violations and no record of ever having a library card.
12
Looting term is an egregious racist microaggression. A more suitable academically approved "unfunded purchaser" extinguishes moral judgment.
14
I never thought I'd be relieved that it was an African American officer who did the shooting.
2
That's the lie the media released. White officer did the shooting, according to eyewitness accounts.
4
Otherwise their could have been a riot.
6
Thanks for the Retro 60s videos.
Interesting that the official response then was much more considered and thoughtful such as how did we get here?, what Fed, State and City plans helped shape this? what are its roots? what is our responsibility? how to we address it to go forward positively?
Interesting that the official response then was much more considered and thoughtful such as how did we get here?, what Fed, State and City plans helped shape this? what are its roots? what is our responsibility? how to we address it to go forward positively?
Especially interesting that Society had not yet lost its mind then, tho it was eagerly in lockstep en route to the palace of wisdom, and higher highs, as the numbers of mentally ill, and ex-convicts, and surge of teen mommies showed. And here we are.
1
The NYT and others clearly support the idea that blacks are under attack and discriminated against by police. This starts with Obama, Sharpton, Holder et al and it places one thought in the minds of blacks, particularly the young, those with criminal records, and those on drugs etc. that they, the blacks are in danger whenever police are involved (whether they just killed someone or stole food from a store and walked in the middle of the street). That causes a violent reaction in many cases, by running, fighting, gettting a gun, driving away, etc. etc. It is the reaction sponsored by the Obama/Sharpton mentality that leads to most of the violent encounters with police. It is not police going out and saying, let's find a black today and shoot him!!
7
Blacks ARE under attack and discriminated against by police. This starts with murder after murder and the police WALK !
Whether by strangulation, bullet in the back, hanging in the jail cell, hail of bullets into the vestibule, etc etc.
All, Innocent, No weapon !!! Hands up-Yet still murdered. Even a 12 yr old.
Glad the media is covering it in depth. Should have been done long ago.
Whether by strangulation, bullet in the back, hanging in the jail cell, hail of bullets into the vestibule, etc etc.
All, Innocent, No weapon !!! Hands up-Yet still murdered. Even a 12 yr old.
Glad the media is covering it in depth. Should have been done long ago.
5
Looters and rioters should know that, all said and done, the family of the victim here will 'sue' for civil rights violation, and get a multi-million dollar settlement from the city of Charlotte.
All that the looters get are tear gas, and a few stolen TV's and drugs from Walgreens.
We have seen this movie before.
All that the looters get are tear gas, and a few stolen TV's and drugs from Walgreens.
We have seen this movie before.
7
This saddens me greatly. I've visited Charlotte briefly on a trip once. I read up about it when I got home. It seemed like a relatively nice place to me. What makes this more upsetting is that this problem is not going to be solved anytime soon, and there is nothing I can personally do about it but to watch it unfold.
The whole country is in denial. Land of the free. Bull. We live in a Police State. We have for a long time.
5
Regardless of which version of events you believe, does anyone oppose an independent investigation and releasing video footage?
5
Independent investigation = waste of time and money.
2
Wow. Ok. What about releasing video footage? Opposed to that too?
1
So, no one really knows what is on the video. Some see a gun, some see nothing. Well isn't that special?
3
Has anybody wondered why the property of innocent people has to be destroyed every time there is such incident?
11
Have you seen the price of athletic footwear? Geez. Plus, by looting the Baltimore CVS pharmacy, first thing, the Freddy Gray mourners self-medicated their way beyond their near-crippling Grief.
11
Most protesters are peaceful. The violent ones are a few bad apples. The bad apples should be held responsible. Same with cops. Most are good but the few bad apples should be held responsible.
Note that community leaders are encouraging protesters to be peaceful and are condemning violence. We don't hear good cops speak out against the few bad apples in their ranks.
Note that community leaders are encouraging protesters to be peaceful and are condemning violence. We don't hear good cops speak out against the few bad apples in their ranks.
1
No wonder Donald Trump is surging in the polls. Optimally, there will be a riot in another Democrat area in a week or two, converting more millions of disillusioned Reagan Democrats to the GOP forever.
10
And what will Trump do? Bring out the Military, engineer a coup? Trump has made racism an acceptable more in the US, along with many other negative and destructive 'ism's. He is fuel for much fire and he loves to watch it rage. Frightened, cowering people rush for what they perceive as cover. It would be better if they were to take good note of the cover that Trump will actually give them, before it comes crashing down on them and everyone else.
3
Trump is a liberal new york democrat. He's just talking stupid so the republicans think he's one of them.
3
@ Kareena FL
Well whatever his game plan is, millions of people are counting on him to tow a more fascistic line and they are the ones that made him.
Well whatever his game plan is, millions of people are counting on him to tow a more fascistic line and they are the ones that made him.
1
The data is in.
The Great Society is officially a failure.
When the only way for a single mother to get a raise is to have another illegitimate child, with rules that make sure the father is not in the household, you inexorably get young boys raised without a tether, who find the male bonding they need in gangs, and the crazy violence statistics we see.
The result is a dissolution of the community, and murderous havoc.
Nice going, social engineers.
The Great Society is officially a failure.
When the only way for a single mother to get a raise is to have another illegitimate child, with rules that make sure the father is not in the household, you inexorably get young boys raised without a tether, who find the male bonding they need in gangs, and the crazy violence statistics we see.
The result is a dissolution of the community, and murderous havoc.
Nice going, social engineers.
15
Ah yes--anti-black racism has absolutely nothing to do with it, does it?
5
Tom, the short and crisp answer is NO, we have a black president, black attorney general, black police chief in charlotte, and the black cop accused of shooting.
13
Hey Tom,
Not many blacks living in San Francisco any more.
Not many blacks living in San Francisco any more.
8
Police should just pull back and come in an clean up messes after everything sorts its self out.
If they can't take down a man with a gun (Convicted felons aren't supposed to have a gun) after repeatedly telling him to drop it then its game over.
Better arm up America cause whats coming is going to be ugly.
If they can't take down a man with a gun (Convicted felons aren't supposed to have a gun) after repeatedly telling him to drop it then its game over.
Better arm up America cause whats coming is going to be ugly.
8
How nice. What Gun??? If he had a gun and was dangerous he would have already shot the police. Oh yes, I am to believe the police ordered him to drop the gun, several times. All the while he could have shot them but since he was not dangerous he didn't.
If he had a gun, it was legal to open carry. Maybe he didn't want to drop it. They cost a lot of money and it could go off when dropped and hurt or kill someone. The police ordering you to drop it, when you did nothing wrong, are attempting to deprive you of your second amendment rights. If you refuse to give up your guaranteed rights and do nothing harmful to the police, they murder you.
If he had a gun, it was legal to open carry. Maybe he didn't want to drop it. They cost a lot of money and it could go off when dropped and hurt or kill someone. The police ordering you to drop it, when you did nothing wrong, are attempting to deprive you of your second amendment rights. If you refuse to give up your guaranteed rights and do nothing harmful to the police, they murder you.
1
As a white female of advanced years, I have had little interaction with police except in their enforcement of traffic laws (speeding, parking, taillight out, expired license plate etc.) and in working minor collisions. But I recently called for assistance for something very non-threatening. I heard a kitten in the engine of a parked car in a Home Deport shopping center on a very hot day. I didn't want to mess with a stranger's car but I thought they could rescue the cat. I waited in my car a few spaces away. When the two officers arrived I got out of my car and walked toward them to point out the "cat car." To make a long story short, it was apparent from the time they stepped out of the police car that they were very cautious, suspicious or even fearful. One held his hand on whatever weapon was on his side (pistol, billy club, flashlight?) I felt like I had to put them at ease, prove to them that I wasn't a threat, just a "crazy" old lady trying to save a cat. What were they thinking? A car bomb? Some kind of police ambush scenario? Maybe they were just unhappy to respond to a cat rescue. Turned out they couldn't mess with the stranger's car either and the kitten had to meet its unknown fate. But I learned a little about how perfectly innocent encounters with police might easily go bad. There was tension where there should have been only a friendly, easy, helpful exchange between public servant and public citizen.
25
Whenever out, I always make it a point to, when more than ear shot away, make eye contact with the LEO and offer an approving nod of thanks or when nearby, as with every Veteran I meet, thank them for their service.
6
You thank them for their service for being terrified over an old lady calling about a distressed cat? Their service for not even calling animal care and control? Their service for shooting unarmed civilians? What a patriot you are.
2
There is a great disconnect between law enforcement and the communities they serve. Both suspicions and emotions are heightened which can result in chaos and rash irreversible decisions. We have a silent war here in our own country that is divisive and deadly.
4
Sure, why wouldn't black men -- and any other non-white men -- love to get stopped and frisked over and over by the Trump Police? I am sure the Trump Police will all be professional, courteous unbiased individuals (just like The Donald himself!) who would never mistake a harmless book for a lethal weapon or judge a man by the color of his skin. I am sure that Donald Trump really hasn't done or said anything to warrant the endorsement of racist hatemongers like David Duke. I am sure the election of Donald Trump will not set race relations in America back a hundred years. I am sure that the German people knew exactly what they were doing when they embraced the leadership and politics of Adolf Hitler.
6
The looting, and violence by those "protesting"... is doing more to hurt the black community than David Duke ever could.
10
Why is your focus on the looting, Todd? What would say to those who carried out the Boston Tea Party? Would you denounce those whites who burned black neighborhoods in protest?
4
The solution is simple and complex. The simple solution is for the DA to treat a cop who has killed a black man exactly the same way they would treat a black man for shooting a cop. Both should get equal justice. Instead black cop-killers end up dead or in prison for life, while cops who kill black men get paid admin leave (paid vacation) and are rarely ever indicted, let alone tried, convicted, or sent to jail.
The complex solution is that we have to go about building a society where the police (even black police) are not automatically prejudiced or predisposed to see a young black man as a potential dangerous criminal and treat him the same way they would treat a comparable white man. When the black community sees equality of acceptance and equality of justice, and the police see black males as no different than white males - and treat them equally - we will begin to build the necessary bridge of trust between both "cultures."
The complex solution is that we have to go about building a society where the police (even black police) are not automatically prejudiced or predisposed to see a young black man as a potential dangerous criminal and treat him the same way they would treat a comparable white man. When the black community sees equality of acceptance and equality of justice, and the police see black males as no different than white males - and treat them equally - we will begin to build the necessary bridge of trust between both "cultures."
2
Beartooth -- little muggy down in Florida I know -- can cloud your thinking.
First a Black guy shooting a cop is committing murder, pure and simple. Whether it is an ambush like in Dallas or Louisiana, or a guy pulling a gun after a traffic stop or resisting arrest with a deadly weapon.
In almost all cases Police killings of citizens are justified for one of several reasons -- often because they had a weapon and were threatening cops, resisting arrest, or are caught in the middle of convicting a felony. The cops don't wake up thinking -- hey, I think I'll kill somebody today. But the people who kill cops often do wake up that way.
First a Black guy shooting a cop is committing murder, pure and simple. Whether it is an ambush like in Dallas or Louisiana, or a guy pulling a gun after a traffic stop or resisting arrest with a deadly weapon.
In almost all cases Police killings of citizens are justified for one of several reasons -- often because they had a weapon and were threatening cops, resisting arrest, or are caught in the middle of convicting a felony. The cops don't wake up thinking -- hey, I think I'll kill somebody today. But the people who kill cops often do wake up that way.
7
Appalling how some readers are trying to justify the violence and looting for ‘rage’.
It is not called 'rage' - it is called criminal behavior and lack of character!
And it is also called imposing pain - physical or financial - on others.
The fact that the NYT 'picked' some of these posts shows how it has lost any journalistic credibility and sense of bias.
The fact that it 'forgot' to mention that the officer who short the armed man is also black shows a lack of character equal to that of the looters vandalizing and robbing stores and businesses big and small.
You have lost all sense of fair, unbiased journalism.
I'm tired of your myriad of opinion pieces poorly disguised as factual articles.
It is not called 'rage' - it is called criminal behavior and lack of character!
And it is also called imposing pain - physical or financial - on others.
The fact that the NYT 'picked' some of these posts shows how it has lost any journalistic credibility and sense of bias.
The fact that it 'forgot' to mention that the officer who short the armed man is also black shows a lack of character equal to that of the looters vandalizing and robbing stores and businesses big and small.
You have lost all sense of fair, unbiased journalism.
I'm tired of your myriad of opinion pieces poorly disguised as factual articles.
13
"It 'forgot' to mention that the officer who short the armed man is also black"
Did we read the same article?
Did we read the same article?
5
Mr. Murphy said: “We’re tired of being killed and nobody saying nothing. We’re tired of our political leaders going along to get along; they’re so weak, they don’t have no sympathy for our grief. And we want justice.”
___
Yes, there is a problem and it needs to be addressed.
Violence begets violence. Angry, volatile protests, even destruction of PUBLIC property may be excusable given the circumstances.
But destroying private property and looting only reinforces negative stereotyping by showing the willful disregard for obeying the law. It then becomes a matter of one step forward two steps back.
Healing race relations and this young black male "death by cop" issue is a two-way street.
___
Yes, there is a problem and it needs to be addressed.
Violence begets violence. Angry, volatile protests, even destruction of PUBLIC property may be excusable given the circumstances.
But destroying private property and looting only reinforces negative stereotyping by showing the willful disregard for obeying the law. It then becomes a matter of one step forward two steps back.
Healing race relations and this young black male "death by cop" issue is a two-way street.
6
What struck me about this article is that instead of it being an article about another shooting, it's about another five shootings—Keith L Scott in Charlotte, NC; Tyre King in Columbus OH; Terrence Crutcher in Tulsa OK; the killing of Korryn Gaines and the shooting of her son in Baltimore MD--all shot by police. Obviously, the shootings are on the increase because the cops always get away with it. It is inevetible that people will fight back by any means necessary to stop these atrocities! Nothing else works! And I don't blame them a bit!
2
I think you would change your mind if it was your neighborhood being burned and looted. And your family being beaten by "protesters".
9
I know that there are extenuating circumstances in each individual case in these incidents where police have claimed to be in a life threatening situation. Every case is unique. Yet it is confounding when the family of the victims in Charlotte and Tulsa point out that a few days ago a POI of terrorist activities was brought in alive with but minors wounds while the two gentleman in North Carolina and Oklahoma were shot dead. What pray-tell is the difference? The incident in New Jersey involved a suspected bomber who was armed at the time and wounded two police officers in his apprehension yet is expected to fully recover from his wounds.
For me, the police in Charlotte and Tulsa have a lot of explaining to do in how protocol should have been followed in those cases. When terrorists in Boston, New York and New Jersey have a better chance of surviving an armed confrontation with police than just average folks, whether armed or not, something is drastically wrong with this picture.
DD
Manhattan
For me, the police in Charlotte and Tulsa have a lot of explaining to do in how protocol should have been followed in those cases. When terrorists in Boston, New York and New Jersey have a better chance of surviving an armed confrontation with police than just average folks, whether armed or not, something is drastically wrong with this picture.
DD
Manhattan
8
Many things can be simultaneously true. As an ex-Noo Yawkuh of mature years, I vividly remember the outrage over police scandals; the investigative reports; the trials; the recommendations for reform--an endless loop that plays out, decade after decade, so we can end up right where we started again.
It*s not white vs. black. It*s cops vs. everyone else. Friends of mine--a pair of sisters, white, middle-class--always kept cameras--this was before the smart-phone era--in their cars so they could document the circumstances of traffic tickets and then fight them in court. They always managed to get the tickets dismissed and the judges always chastised the cops providing perjured testimony--if the cops showed up at all.
But it is also true that many people are not prejudiced--they*re postjudiced. I*ve always, since adulthood, lived in diverse communities, had black friends, at one time a black spouse and black in-laws, black colleagues, sometimes black bosses--some of whom were wonderful to work for and some who were wretched--but the three times in my life I was the victim of violent crime or attempted crime, the perpetrators were black men. Did that condition me to react to certain people in certain ways? You betcha.
Let*s have a national conversation based on a number of truths, and let everyone have the courage to acknowledge them.
It*s not white vs. black. It*s cops vs. everyone else. Friends of mine--a pair of sisters, white, middle-class--always kept cameras--this was before the smart-phone era--in their cars so they could document the circumstances of traffic tickets and then fight them in court. They always managed to get the tickets dismissed and the judges always chastised the cops providing perjured testimony--if the cops showed up at all.
But it is also true that many people are not prejudiced--they*re postjudiced. I*ve always, since adulthood, lived in diverse communities, had black friends, at one time a black spouse and black in-laws, black colleagues, sometimes black bosses--some of whom were wonderful to work for and some who were wretched--but the three times in my life I was the victim of violent crime or attempted crime, the perpetrators were black men. Did that condition me to react to certain people in certain ways? You betcha.
Let*s have a national conversation based on a number of truths, and let everyone have the courage to acknowledge them.
9
Let's not, and say we did. That train left the station a very long time ago.
If only the Second Amendment was taken literally word for word and as anyone with a third-grade education would understand, no one but a member of an organized militia, ie. The National Guard would have a guaranteed right to own a weapon of mass destruction otherwise known as a gun.
2
It's time to decide that a policeman cannot shoot to kill a black or white person in what appears to be an infraction of some minor law: missing license, traffic violation, etc.. Not too hard to figure this out. Increased heavy weaponry for the police, supported by the NRA, has only escalated the possibility of disastrous interaction.
The police must be held accountable for shooting to kill and ignoring a dead body lying on the street. Suspension without pay? Just one of many possibilities that could be explored.
The police must be held accountable for shooting to kill and ignoring a dead body lying on the street. Suspension without pay? Just one of many possibilities that could be explored.
5
And it is about time to decide that a policeman can act in self defense if there is an armed man, or woman, pointing a gun at him/her.
13
heavy weaponry for the police, supported by the NRA,
----------------
City Council, the county board of supervisors, and the state legislature determines the weaponry the police carry, not the NRA. But you already knew that.
----------------
City Council, the county board of supervisors, and the state legislature determines the weaponry the police carry, not the NRA. But you already knew that.
6
Why doesn't someone ask the family what the title of the book was that the victim was said to have been reading?
10
Are you serious, Nick? That would be a question that could be answered only if (1) the book existed and (2) the person to whom the question was put could read...
5
There are over 22,000 police departments/districts. Every little hamlet wants its own police force - for local control that protects the wealthy and suppresses the poor and persons of color. In fact most new law enforcement officers undergo laughingly brief incomplete training - with little follow-up training during their careers and lots of reenforcement of "bad" habits by police veterans and superior officers. Contrary to the situation in rich white suburbs, most police are poorly paid, over-worked and confronted by a highly armed and violent citizenry. The police unions however undermine the professionalism of their own members with rules that protect incompetent or even murderous officers. Absent federal/state legislation, we will continue to suffer under balkanized unprofessional police organizations, abetted by the public's fear of crime, racial bias and blind trust in authority.
1
Protests. Unrest.
It's called rioting!
It's called rioting!
11
NC is an "open carry" state, thanks to our nut job legislators. But now that black people or other people of color are openly carrying weapons, the unjust and blatantly incorrect prejudices of even cops of color are on display.
If he would have kept his gun in his ankle holster. .. he would've been fine ( except for the whole felon having a gun situation). Having a gun holstered and carrying is different than brandishing a firearm in front of cops ...which is what he did.
3
The New York Times should start believing the police first. As it has turned out they are usually telling the truth. But the New York Times gives the rioters too much credit and publishes their accounts of whatever happened as fact. The New York Times also doesn't state all the other facts that are involved in criminal defense.
Such as how many people are killed by police how many of those people are black how many of those people or white or other. And the percentages of crimes committed by each group. That would help to make sense of everything that's happening.
Such as how many people are killed by police how many of those people are black how many of those people or white or other. And the percentages of crimes committed by each group. That would help to make sense of everything that's happening.
6
Once again, the facts don't matter at all to these protesters. Maybe the shooting was justified and maybe it wasn't, but there is no way they or anyone else who wasn't there could possibly know that at this stage; as usual, every witness and supposed witness has a different story.
6
The facts contravene the alternative fictional narratives. Facts be damned! Verdict first, trial afterward!
5
So, in open carry states, everyone is free to possess a gun, and therefore considered safer, yet the police are justified in shooting to kill if they fear that a person, especially a person of color, might be carrying a gun. Is that about it?
2
No one is free to brandish a pistol and point it at someone, particularly at an armed law enforcement officer...
6
They'll be more rioting tonight. The Carolina Panthers store is still standing.
7
Asian cop shoots a black person = people riot
Black cop shoots a black person = people riot
White cop shoots a black person = people riot
Black people shoot other black people 2,000 times (Chicago) = nobody cares.
Black cop shoots a black person = people riot
White cop shoots a black person = people riot
Black people shoot other black people 2,000 times (Chicago) = nobody cares.
35
But of course nothing happens, Rich!
What if a cop acts in self defense and shoots them - then we risk having a riot!!!
What if a cop acts in self defense and shoots them - then we risk having a riot!!!
5
"Black people shoot other black people ... nobody cares."
Surprising, isn't? Generally, the leftists -- the Times' EB in particular -- like to interfere with and change (some would say "subvert") accepted cultural norms, but in the case of black-on-black shootings there is a deafening silence...
Surprising, isn't? Generally, the leftists -- the Times' EB in particular -- like to interfere with and change (some would say "subvert") accepted cultural norms, but in the case of black-on-black shootings there is a deafening silence...
5
Again, why have the body-cam and/or dash-cam videos not been released? Earlier news reports claim that body cams have been distributed to all officers in all districts. The police have said they exist and are being reviewed. The new NC law that prevents public release, strange as that is, does not go into effect until October.
There is what appears to be a news reporter video interview online with a woman who claims to have witnessed the incident (not the daughter). She claims that she saw a book fall out of Mr. Scott's lap when he got out of the vehicle with his hands raised and she did not see a gun. She also claims that there was a different shooter. Are these claims true or not? She also said that there was a man who lived nearby who also witnessed the incident.
These are first-hand pieces of evidence in addition to the police statements that are critical to understanding what happened. Why have there been no follow-up interviews with the purported eyewitnesses? What have the videos not been released?
I just now heard on the radio that the police are now saying that the video does not clearly show Mr. Scott pointing a gun at anyone. Then, the same person said that the video does not show a gun but that they found one later. They say they will show the video to the family but do not plan to show it to the public. This is outrageous in my opinion.
There is what appears to be a news reporter video interview online with a woman who claims to have witnessed the incident (not the daughter). She claims that she saw a book fall out of Mr. Scott's lap when he got out of the vehicle with his hands raised and she did not see a gun. She also claims that there was a different shooter. Are these claims true or not? She also said that there was a man who lived nearby who also witnessed the incident.
These are first-hand pieces of evidence in addition to the police statements that are critical to understanding what happened. Why have there been no follow-up interviews with the purported eyewitnesses? What have the videos not been released?
I just now heard on the radio that the police are now saying that the video does not clearly show Mr. Scott pointing a gun at anyone. Then, the same person said that the video does not show a gun but that they found one later. They say they will show the video to the family but do not plan to show it to the public. This is outrageous in my opinion.
3
Either the police or family are lying. The man was either an unarmed innocent or armed danger. He was holding a gun or a book. None of it matters with regards to allowing rioters to destroy property, commit assaults, and shut down a highway.
We don't know if the police did the right thing with regards to the shooting, but we know with absolute certainty they're not doing the right thing by allowing these riots to continue.
They're doing it all wrong down there in Charlotte. The tapes should have been made public immediately and the protests never allowed to turn into riots. Tulsa handled their similar situation much better.
We don't know if the police did the right thing with regards to the shooting, but we know with absolute certainty they're not doing the right thing by allowing these riots to continue.
They're doing it all wrong down there in Charlotte. The tapes should have been made public immediately and the protests never allowed to turn into riots. Tulsa handled their similar situation much better.
10
When the serve and protect people show up at a peaceful demonstration in ROBO COP, Full Riot gear, hands itchy on the Batons, trigger finger itchy on the gas guns of oppression and their flash bang explosives of terror, what do expect?
When the riot squad is restless and needs some place to go, especially if they can discredit a peaceful protest ! they will always cause a full on disturbance.
And, in case there is any more confusion; This would have never happened had the "serve and protect" not murdered another innocent human.
Causing this riot was the same police tactic as planting a gun or drugs on one of their victims. It serves to discredit the victims. In this case they used all. PCP anyone? Gun at the victims feet? Reaching into the car for a Gun?
Sick and tired of the lies.
When the riot squad is restless and needs some place to go, especially if they can discredit a peaceful protest ! they will always cause a full on disturbance.
And, in case there is any more confusion; This would have never happened had the "serve and protect" not murdered another innocent human.
Causing this riot was the same police tactic as planting a gun or drugs on one of their victims. It serves to discredit the victims. In this case they used all. PCP anyone? Gun at the victims feet? Reaching into the car for a Gun?
Sick and tired of the lies.
1
I thought they were police mannequins, until after 30 minutes of watching I saw them take 2 baby steps forward, and then freeze for another restful period. Dressed for a riot, while acting like they were at the Junior Prom. Must be lots of Overtime pay $$$, the cops prolonged the mini-riot for soooo long.
1
As others have mentioned in this comments section, a fundamental and curious question goes begging: why in the world are our law enforcers not taught to aim at the legs!?! If it's fear on the part of officers then in all due respect they need reassignment to desk jobs. But if it's bigger than that - if it's part of the basic strategy of addressing confrontation, then - clearly - it's time for a reset.
2
Because they could be shot and killed while aiming not to kill. Warning shots and shooting the gun out of someone's hand only occur on TV and movies.
9
Carol, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. That's a nice soft fuzzy way to think of the world. But the reality is the cops don't have the luxury of aiming to wound. First, if increase the difficulty of hitting the suspect at all as the leg or arm is a smaller target than the middle mass of an individual. Second, a miss in a crowded situation could cause an innocent bystander to be hurt. Third, failure to incapacitate a suspect and the subsequent ability of the suspect to incapacitate or kill the cop has consequences not just for the cop but for other individuals at the scene. Imagine a cop happening upon a robbery, the cop pulls his gun, misses his "wounding" shot, the perpetrator shoots and incapacitates the cop, then decides to kill the person behind the counter and maybe a customer standing nearby to eliminate witnesses.
think about it.
think about it.
9
Ever hear of the femoral artery?
2
The civil unrest and lack of trust in the police is part of a much bigger problem that will be the greatest domestic challenge for the next administration. Let us hope for all our sakes that it is a Clinton administration that faces it.
3
It does seem that BLM is working for Donald Trump. Donald Trump loves these riots. BLM does all of us an injustice.
3
We are so divided that we cannot agree on whether a man with a gun - stepping out of a car when confronted by the police - is blameless if the police refuse to risk death by waiting to see if the suspect is going to shoot them.
There should be civilian review board to carefully examine each case. Some of these incidents are clearly unjustified shootings and should be pursued to the end; in others, the police are legitimately justified in protecting themselves.
It would also be beneficial to all if activists would be more discriminating in the cases they chose to create martyrs. A man shot while his hands are up clearly qualifies. A man having just robbed a store, assaulted the owner and attacking a policeman to take his weapon is a more questionable case.
There should be civilian review board to carefully examine each case. Some of these incidents are clearly unjustified shootings and should be pursued to the end; in others, the police are legitimately justified in protecting themselves.
It would also be beneficial to all if activists would be more discriminating in the cases they chose to create martyrs. A man shot while his hands are up clearly qualifies. A man having just robbed a store, assaulted the owner and attacking a policeman to take his weapon is a more questionable case.
9
"A man having just robbed a store, assaulted the owner and attacking a policeman to take his weapon is a more questionable case."
I do not see how the Michael Brown case can be anything but an open and shut case of justifiable homicide.
I do not see how the Michael Brown case can be anything but an open and shut case of justifiable homicide.
9
What defines an "unremarkable" apartment complex, and what relevance does it have to the story?
8
It has no remarkable features. Like if it was a remarkably crime-infested apartment complex, that would bear mentioning.
1
The law recently passed by our Republican legislature and signed into law by our Republican governor is destined to inflame racial conflict.
Police cams are not available to defendants or litigants unless the State decides to release them or a judge orders release.
We can be confident that the State will release videos if they prove it was a "good shooting". So, the inescapable implication is that if the State doesn't release the cam, it's a cover-up.
The law was an obvious pander to the Republicans' law and order/support your police base, but it in fact does nobody any good.
Defendants and other litigants should be entitled to all available credible evidence - that's due process of law. If the police acted properly, they will be helped; if not, the wrongdoing needs to be addressed.
Keeping the facts available from the cams hidden away from the people will have the inevitable result we're seeing in Charlotte and have seen in so many other places.
Letting the light shine in is the best policy.
Police cams are not available to defendants or litigants unless the State decides to release them or a judge orders release.
We can be confident that the State will release videos if they prove it was a "good shooting". So, the inescapable implication is that if the State doesn't release the cam, it's a cover-up.
The law was an obvious pander to the Republicans' law and order/support your police base, but it in fact does nobody any good.
Defendants and other litigants should be entitled to all available credible evidence - that's due process of law. If the police acted properly, they will be helped; if not, the wrongdoing needs to be addressed.
Keeping the facts available from the cams hidden away from the people will have the inevitable result we're seeing in Charlotte and have seen in so many other places.
Letting the light shine in is the best policy.
9
So when will the police start shooting the good ol' boys who march into Chipotle with assault rifles?
9
How do you know they haven't? Since there's been over 600 killings by police, and over 500 of them are not black and we haven't heard of any; that's probably why.
18
As soon as those guys threaten someone with their guns, I'd hope.
9
Why would the police shoot anyone who does not threaten them or others with a gun?
4
Maybe Dylan Roof will be successful. He said he wanted to start a race war.
That's how these things get started. The 'peaceful' protests are soon exploited and taken over by the violent elements of the interest group and the forces of opposition react to the violence. Look at other countries now in the middle of a civil war. Those wars started with so-called peaceful protests.
I expect that the mass media wants a war too because they do very little, too late, to report facts of what is happening that might temper reactionary anger to false narratives that are propagated to incite violence.
That's how these things get started. The 'peaceful' protests are soon exploited and taken over by the violent elements of the interest group and the forces of opposition react to the violence. Look at other countries now in the middle of a civil war. Those wars started with so-called peaceful protests.
I expect that the mass media wants a war too because they do very little, too late, to report facts of what is happening that might temper reactionary anger to false narratives that are propagated to incite violence.
10
African Americans make up over 50% of the arrests for murder/ manslaughter in the U.S. This is stunning given the fact that they make up about 13% of the population. This colors police interaction with African Americans.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/...
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/...
14
You forgot to post that over 50% of the arrests for murder/ manslaughter in the U.S. are committed by black Americans.
And that according to FBI data a back armed man is NINE times more likely (900%) to shoot at an officer than member of other ethnic groups.
Don't select the data - post the ENTIRE truth.
Please NYT - even the way you are filtering these posts is twisting the truth - and it is therefore a form of corruption.
And that according to FBI data a back armed man is NINE times more likely (900%) to shoot at an officer than member of other ethnic groups.
Don't select the data - post the ENTIRE truth.
Please NYT - even the way you are filtering these posts is twisting the truth - and it is therefore a form of corruption.
8
You said what I said.
Once again I had to go to Fox News to find additional facts that matter, such as the fact that the police officer is black and the police chief is black. If you watch the video of the Police chief being interviewed on the Kelly File, it is compelling. I now believe that the NYT aids and abets violence. I long for the days when the Times was the paper of record.
33
Well said. The decline in quality of the reporting in the NY Times, along with the persistent anti-white and anti-police bias is appalling. The extreme racism demonstrated daily by the NY Times, and lack of informed reporting, has made it useless as a true source of news. It is now simply a tool used to promote anger, racial hatred and a very narrow view of the world. Like you, I long for the days - just a few years ago - when the NY Times was the standard for news reporting, instead of the poster child for a total lack of standards.
7
The NYT is no longer credible. Whether it is about politics or police shootings, all they want to do is sell newspapers. Whatever headline accomplishes that ends, is fine with them.
3
Perhaps if you actually read the NYT instead of just the headlines and the comments, you would have picked up the same info (but without the right wing spin.)
1
It is racism to gather together all of blacks, if somebody black was been killed. They separate black race from other. Blacks needn’t protest against of police. It is pressure on the justice! Also it is the separatism. They are allocate themselves from other persons and demanding special relation of the law. Maybe enough, nobody needs divide people by colors of skin.
3
13% of the US population is black. 18% of the population is of Hispanic origin. There are black criminals and Hispanic criminals and both group members get shot by police yet no one sees Hispanics looting and rioting after a Hispanic gets shot by the police. Why? Also I am bothered that blacks seems to be worried only by shootings involving police. 500 black young men were killed by other blacks in Chicago so far this year and I do not see any protest about it nor do I see any phone videos of those killings... Phone videos for police shootings only?
23
The bottom line is that he had a gun. Why is the Black Congressional Caucus not marching against criminals and gangbangers in their neighborhoods? Why is riot considered 'peaceful protest'? What will it take to wake up those who will not see reality?
23
A pastor who said he was just 15 feet from the protester that was shot last night said based on what he saw he does NOT believe it was a civilian that fired the shot.
The police chief said this morning that he did NOT see a gun the videos he has viewed.
The police chief said this morning that he did NOT see a gun the videos he has viewed.
3
In the long run, the US will have to address its founding legend of a meritocratic, class-blind, socially mobile society and stop pretending it is the shiny city on the hill. Because it is a shining city to only a select few: the proprietors, people who can trace their propertied lineage way, way back to the Mayflower, Plymouth Rock and Jamestown myths of creation. The rest of us are just waste people, and we feel that way, and today with Internet and Youtube, it is hard to sweep us under the carpet. Isn't it horrible to see the looting of Walmart? Then, it must have been horrible for a British loyalist in Boston to see the Tea Party of Sam Adams. It is always horrible for an oppressor to see the oppressed violently rise. In the meantime, it is very simple: every policeman in the country should think twice, maybe even more, before pulling out the gun and shooting and killing another black person, regardless whether that person holds a real, or more likely, an imaginary gun. Just chill out first! Take a deep breath. Talk. Cops should be trained to take a bullet if necessary, they have their bullet proof vests, before shooting themselves. And prosecutors should start putting cops that killed out of their jobs and behind the prison bars. I ask everybody here: do you think police impunity is worth the riots, burning, looting, traffic blocking, damage, injuries, and deaths it is causing? Because while we have to do something to rescue the underclass, first we should stop killing.
7
Yes. Train cops to take bullets and then wonder why no one wants to apply for the job.
5
Well, Chief Putney just said the video does not definitively show Scott pointing a gun at anyone. He isn't going to release the video to the public but the family will most likely see it.
I think not releasing the video is a huge mistake and defeats the purpose of having the police equipped with body cameras or dash cameras. The public wants the truth and not the police narrative of what happened.
I think not releasing the video is a huge mistake and defeats the purpose of having the police equipped with body cameras or dash cameras. The public wants the truth and not the police narrative of what happened.
3
Why won't the "official" video be shown after the mayor sees it? That in itself is suspicious. It only adds to the distrust.
4
"brandishing a BB gun" This is the kind of inaccurate, biased, anti police, inflammatory reporting that is generating these riots. The gun looked like a real gun, it is absolutely irrelevant that it was a bb gun.
7
I have 3 pellet pistols and 2 pellet rifles (last week I killed 2 large possums in my backyard in 30 minutes.) They are indistinguishable from real guns, and the .22 pellet rifle is definitely lethal.
1
The lethal sickness of America is cast in concrete and for the world to see by this one police killing of an Afro-American in Charlotte: The locals saying "the man held a BOOK" and the police saying "No, it was a GUN."
2
So a black cop kills a black guy and the black Police Chief backs his officer. Then black people want to go after white people. Makes a lot of sense. Riots, looting and violence is the new norm with first black president.
20
"So a black cop kills a black guy and the black Police Chief backs his officer. Then black people want to go after white people."
You are projecting your own fear here. The protesters are upset at the police--not "white people."
You are projecting your own fear here. The protesters are upset at the police--not "white people."
3
Thank you they project all the time. This is nothing new or normal, Black people have been protesting police violence since 1960's and before so how is that President Obama's fault? I'm willing to bet that to you everything is his fault.
2
I wonder how many of these "protestors" will actually bother to get out and vote in November...
6
How many of them even have a job?
4
They'd probably love to vote, but the North Carolina legislature has stolen their right to vote. And you wonder why North Carolina's (or Oklahoma's, or Louisiana's...) Black citizens are so mad. Citizen's United, gerrymandering, and active voter suppression efforts are fueling this kind of disproportional violence.
How many jobs have Republicans created since 2010 when their mantra was jobs, jobs, jobs? They have obstructed every jobs bill from President Obama. So you can wonder if they have a job but you should ask yourself whose fault is it if they don't. But I doubt you will.
1
The media must take ownership of this riot. Headlines like the one on this article and others, do not give known facts. Last night's shooting was civilian on civilian - say that in the headlines. Stop LOOKING to inflame situations.
17
After 8 years of Obama, race relations have never been worse. Blacks have suffered miserably under Obama's policies despite his promises of hope and change. I have nothing to lose by voting Trumo in November. This madness has to stop.
11
I will never donate to the Fratrenal Order of Police again.
6
It's time for the Justice Department to start a hard look into the culture of Police Unions and their consistent penchant to not push for what is right by helping to change the paranoid - us vs. them - mentality cops have and be willing to tell all their members, "if you do wrong and we know you've done wrong, we can't support you".
I'm a union man. I believe in unions and I believe in good cops but many times when I hear a police union officials speak it's in a situation where they defend the indefensible and they throw out inferences to let the public know that they will stand their ground no matter what.
And I think that mentality gives cops a lot of cover to NOT think long and hard during their job about their use of lethal force.
I'm a union man. I believe in unions and I believe in good cops but many times when I hear a police union officials speak it's in a situation where they defend the indefensible and they throw out inferences to let the public know that they will stand their ground no matter what.
And I think that mentality gives cops a lot of cover to NOT think long and hard during their job about their use of lethal force.
5
Ask the Big City mayors why they truckle to the Police Unions. Same reason they pander to race-hustlers like Al Sharpton -- for voting blocs. Can't get elected without both of those groups.
1
If a black cop shoots a white guy, is one of them presumed to be a racist?
Which one?
Which one?
11
A black cop shot a black man. That isn't racist. If a white cop kills a white guy it isn't racist.
Everything can't be blamed on race. It is getting annoying. Attorney General Loretta Lynch who is black, and who's boss is Obama our black president, investigated the city of Baltimore police. They mayor of Baltimore is black and so is the police chief. Yet the findings was discrimination against blacks. That just seems impossible.
Everything can't be blamed on race. It is getting annoying. Attorney General Loretta Lynch who is black, and who's boss is Obama our black president, investigated the city of Baltimore police. They mayor of Baltimore is black and so is the police chief. Yet the findings was discrimination against blacks. That just seems impossible.
15
Never has the story line in the film Rashomon seemed to come to life more than in these events.
3
It's always a comparative few who, in the guise of advocating for their community, act out beyond peaceful protest and attempt to cause chaos. These individuals certainly do not represent the vast majority who are expressing their discontent at perceived injustice and discrimination. Whether or not the tragic incident which precipitated these acts of violence is ultimately determined to be legitimate police action this community and Charlotte as a whole is ill served by this wanton disregard of public order. Social progress won't come from breaking windows and setting fires. It will come from the real bravery of those seeking genuine justice through peaceful protest.
6
"Perceived"is the keyword.
1
How does rioting, violence, and looting help to move public opinion in a positive direction? Dr. Martin Luther King would not approve this message.
11
Just what would you suggest? Maybe if cops stopped using violence against people they are sworn to protect and serve, things could move in a positive direction. If you are talking about changing the opinions of people like you, who keep silent except to condemn, good riddance and we don't need your support. You don't have a clue what Dr. MLK would think about what's going on but I would say that I bet you were against him as well. I guess you don't recall the dogs and water hoses and brutal police tactics used against him and the other protesters during that time. Did you join the fight for civil rights? I bet not. Did you march against black people being killed? People like you, who sit in your segregated communities and talk about how WE should behave and respond, are useless.
3
I think JFK famously said it a long time ago with respect to civil rights. If you don't have evolution, you'll have revolution. I am paraphrasing because I don't actually remember the exact wording. That phrase came to mind when looking at the pictures of Charlotte. Decades of avoiding/evading civil rights legislation and making sure the 'others' never had a fair chance, weather in education, housing, schools, you name it. This is the result.
5
If you were an officer, if you were confronted with a man with a gun, what would you do? Would you try to talk him to drop the gun. What if he didn't? What if you believed his next move would be to turn the gun on you? Would you not then shoot to stop him before the gun was pointed at you? Or would you wait until you saw that the gun was pointed at you? By then its too late, because by the time you saw that you saw the gun pointed at you and you pulled the trigger, he could have shot you and you would be dead. These people who say the officer should shoot to wing him, or wait until they see the gun pointed at them are fooling themselves.
10
It is a proven fact that no one can react to a gun being drawn and fired, even holding the gun in hand.
You cannot wait.
You cannot wait.
6
When police abandon their roles as self-appointed executioners and return to law enforcement, these acts of civil disobedience will decline.
2
I have the solution to the Police shooting and killing innocent unarmed black people or any people. Charge the Cops with MURDER. Put them away for life. If i shot and killed somebody i would be convicted and go away for life, maybe get the death penalty. Why do cops murder innocent people? Because they can.
3
The question should not be whether the victim POINTED the gun at the cop before being shot. The question is, whether he acted in a manner that was inconsistent with the orders the cop gave him while having a gun in his hand or next to him on the seat or ground. If the victim had a belligerent attitude toward the cop, and had a gun, it was safe to assume that he would deploy that weapon against the cops.
Again, it was a BLACK COP who shot and killed a black victim. Why loot the stores and destroy your neighborhood? How does that bring justice to the victim or to the black community?
Again, it was a BLACK COP who shot and killed a black victim. Why loot the stores and destroy your neighborhood? How does that bring justice to the victim or to the black community?
13
It's not about justice. It's about having an excuse to get free stuff.
5
It is more than a little outrageous to see posters howling about how this is all the President's fault--and by the way, where I come from, that's "the President," not "Obama," kids.
And just as bad is the amazing lying.
1. The Times reported that that this particular cop happens to be black. For pete's sake, it's in this article.
2. This shooting may well have been justified. The one in Oklahoma, however...the man had his hands up, which the cops SAID and the video showed. And before you start screaming, I just said that this shooting may well have been justified.
3. The Baltimore cops weren't acquitted by a "mostly-black jury." Because at their request, a judge tried the case. Rather well, it looks like.
4. The President's policies haven't "made the economy worse." That's plain nuts.
5....but why go on? You guys aren't bothering to find out the simplest things before you sound off. You're just Dittoheads.
Americans are not supposed to be this ignorant, and the ignorance is dangerous.
And just as bad is the amazing lying.
1. The Times reported that that this particular cop happens to be black. For pete's sake, it's in this article.
2. This shooting may well have been justified. The one in Oklahoma, however...the man had his hands up, which the cops SAID and the video showed. And before you start screaming, I just said that this shooting may well have been justified.
3. The Baltimore cops weren't acquitted by a "mostly-black jury." Because at their request, a judge tried the case. Rather well, it looks like.
4. The President's policies haven't "made the economy worse." That's plain nuts.
5....but why go on? You guys aren't bothering to find out the simplest things before you sound off. You're just Dittoheads.
Americans are not supposed to be this ignorant, and the ignorance is dangerous.
10
Robert I believe you have made the most important point as your #5.
Somehow ignorance has been raised to a lofty summit.
Somehow ignorance has been raised to a lofty summit.
2
None of this is inspiring confidence in the Democratic Party.
8
What does the Democratic party have to do with black folks being shot dead in the streets? I would say it's the Republicans Party and their policies which are complicit in the violence being perpetuated against people of color. No jobs bills, trying to restrict the voting rights of people of color, cutting funding for welfare, militarizing the police, trying to defund Planned Parenthood, cutting education budgets, locking up our young men for crimes that whites get away with, privatizing prisons so rural white men can have jobs on the backs of our youth. Black people are not stupid.
3
Open carry means that white people can walk around with guns. Anyone else, you may end up dead. Gun control came to CA when the Black Panthers started walking around the streets of Oakland with guns on full display. My husband and I have wondered what would be the reaction if a group of African American and Hispanic men open carried standing on the street outside a meeting of the Republican Women's local committee. We suspect they'd be seen as a threat, police would be called, and perhaps they'd be shot. But it's ok for a white guy to walk down the street in my neighborhood with an assault rifle over his shoulder. Absolutely ridiculous!
5
A black cop killed a black guy - it is a problem with whites discriminating against blacks. Let's go looting! BLM is looking more and more ridiculous! Dr King must be crying if his saw all these happening.
12
Dr. King was shot dead, do you remember who did that? It wasn't a black person. Dr. King has dogs and racist cops used against him, they weren't black either. Dr. King was arrested for peaceful protests. Dr. King was called every vile name in the racist handbook, and accused of being a communist for trying to protest the treatment of black folks. I like how you all like to evoke his name and memory when it suits your purpose otherwise not so much his actions.
1
Guns have no place in a civilized society.
6
I good portion of the US population, including large swaths of what East Coasters call "fly over" country, would disagree.
3
When we attain a Civilized Society, we can put w's suggestion to the test. Check back in 2116.
Can we all reflect on the fact that so many recent commenters have focused (disdainfully, in most cases) on the looting of the Hornets store? I guess it's brought up as a proxy to delegitimize the anger expressed by the protesters as a larger body? Property is property; life is life. Let's take a breath and remember that there's a difference between destroying one and destroying the other. And then maybe we can put in perspective what we ought to be really angry about. Sometimes it feels as though the comments sections becomes a place to parade self-righteousness as though this story is just one more abstract talking point. Can those of us who are reading the story and these comments and feel the urge to post something glib or holier-than-thou instead, just for a second, remember that these lives being lost are real? And that there is real pain, loss, and anger attached? That moment of reflection shouldn't shut the conversation down--but hopefully it will lead at the very least to more sober and careful exchanges and observations.
3
To all the commenters who think Obama isn't showing up....Obama is the President and as the President it is not his job to go down to NC to diffuse the rioting (yes NYTimes, if the Governor is calling out the Nat'l Guard, he's got a riot on his hands).
Did Kennedy go down to Mississippi when the Freedom Riders were being beaten and hosed by the police? Did LBJ go to Los Angeles during the Watts riots? Did President Bush go to Los Angeles when the riots began after Rodney King was beaten by the police?
The highest crime official in the US, Attorney General Loretta Lynch, is who will be expected to show up. Her call.
Did Kennedy go down to Mississippi when the Freedom Riders were being beaten and hosed by the police? Did LBJ go to Los Angeles during the Watts riots? Did President Bush go to Los Angeles when the riots began after Rodney King was beaten by the police?
The highest crime official in the US, Attorney General Loretta Lynch, is who will be expected to show up. Her call.
6
Why are they looting?
14
Because the chaos gives them the ability to steal and get away with it. And they're impoverished.
5
Why is that more important to you than black people being shot dead?
Janice Harding has a point, it's more important that a black man was shot dead at these riots than that they're looting.
2
Tulsa PD immdiately released all footage. Yet, Charlotte refuse and Act is not in law until October.Explain. Also, eye witness stated event occurred at 14.30hrs, not close to 16.00. She stated she watched him die and that he was shot by a white police officer. The black police officer who administered CPR, after some delay arrived later and was not present for the shooting. https://twitter.com/MYAPLANET9/status/778744128301432832
1
Obviously she is lying to get street cred, or free drugs, or just for the perversity of it, Mary. A not unknown occurrence, eh, as seen in Freddy Gray's lying "witnesses."
2
Restrict guns, now. If not, don't complain.
2
A round of applause to the NYT and CNN and friends for tonight and more importantly for creating the alt-right.
As many others have pointed out, the victim earlier today was killed by a black police officer. That seems to be glossed over by all the outlets and this publication. It seemed a better idea to stir an already boiling pot to fit the narrative that defies reality.
A photographer almost thrown into a bonfire by an angry mob. People being pulled from their cars on the interstate. A CNN correspondent attacked on live television (I'm shocked he didn't run after the perpetrator to apologize). Now a man shot by another "protestor".
This is a riot not a protest. This is the real face of BLM and this apologetic narrative won't fly any longer.
As many others have pointed out, the victim earlier today was killed by a black police officer. That seems to be glossed over by all the outlets and this publication. It seemed a better idea to stir an already boiling pot to fit the narrative that defies reality.
A photographer almost thrown into a bonfire by an angry mob. People being pulled from their cars on the interstate. A CNN correspondent attacked on live television (I'm shocked he didn't run after the perpetrator to apologize). Now a man shot by another "protestor".
This is a riot not a protest. This is the real face of BLM and this apologetic narrative won't fly any longer.
23
Unless you're here, and witnessed any of these events, you shouldn't speak like you know it for a fact. It's a protest that turned into a riot.
1
The gang bangers have their cheap, illegal semiautomatic Friday night specials. The cops have their better quality semiautomatic plastic, German-made Glocks. The crazies have their semiautomatic AR-15-style 'hunting' rifles. And big boys in padded jackets on cold nights flash toy guns that from a distance to a frightened cop look just like the real thing.
Welcome to the United States of Affghmeristan, where historically every household has needed its AK-47, Colt or Winchester repeating rifle to protect itself from the depredations and ancient enmities of rival clans.
The gun retailers, the gun distributors, the gun makers, their lobby groups, the NRA and their paid stooges in Congress? They're laughing all the way to the bank.
Welcome to the United States of Affghmeristan, where historically every household has needed its AK-47, Colt or Winchester repeating rifle to protect itself from the depredations and ancient enmities of rival clans.
The gun retailers, the gun distributors, the gun makers, their lobby groups, the NRA and their paid stooges in Congress? They're laughing all the way to the bank.
4
Shooting a civilian and looting merchandise from the store of a majority black team owned by Michael Jordan isn't protesting it's criminal.
Will the next Martin Luther King please stand up?
Will the next Martin Luther King please stand up?
8
NC is an open carry state. So does that mean the police may gun down any Black they find with a gun, and use this as justification for the killing? It seems so.
1
Big difference between open carry and brandishing of a firearm. One is legal, the other isn't. Whether or not holding a gun in your hand while interacting with police is a crime, it certainly isn't a real smart thing to do.
3
From the article:
"Around 10 p.m., the police ordered all civilians, including members of the news media, to leave parts of the Uptown neighborhood and threatened to arrest those who did not comply"
This sounds very "Middle East" - is Assad going to be in the debate on Monday? Or will "stop and frisk" lover Trump be sufficient?
"Around 10 p.m., the police ordered all civilians, including members of the news media, to leave parts of the Uptown neighborhood and threatened to arrest those who did not comply"
This sounds very "Middle East" - is Assad going to be in the debate on Monday? Or will "stop and frisk" lover Trump be sufficient?
1
No mention of barrel bombs. . .
3
And no mention of 'protesters' randomly assaulting and beating-up white bystanders....
3
The Justice Dept, with the second African American AG in a row, workign for an African American President, has taken no action on behalf of the black victims. There has been no Federal indictment in Furgeson, Baltimore, Cleveland, New York or elsewhere. Either Holder and Lynch believe the cops were are not guilty or they don't care.
For G-d's sake, let the Charlotte police chief do his very difficult job. Encouraging rioters and commenting from the sidelines when you have absolutely no idea what happened, is disgraceful.
A man already got shot in the head, officers have been wounded, traffic including potential emergency traffic has been interrupted, stores looted... enough is enough
A man already got shot in the head, officers have been wounded, traffic including potential emergency traffic has been interrupted, stores looted... enough is enough
18
The thing to do now is impose a dusk-to-dawn curfew on Charlotte and have the National Guard patrol the streets. The death and destruction of these riots is not to be tolerated.
10
I just came from downtown Charlotte. No protestors. No National Guard. Normal police presence. NYT???
And don't assume that the police, or the victim's family is lying about what happened. Posting the videos would do nothing but inflame more people, no matter what they show. The police are trying to cope with a terrible situation, the community is trying to understand why these shootings keep happening. Passing out blame is not the answer.
1
If Police say he had a gun he had a gun. Since when do we believe the rioters before we believe the police. Anybody want riders to patrol the streets and do the policing?
There have been over 600 people killed by police this year. The great majority of them, over 500, are not black. Yet nobody talks about them for hears about them. The police are reflection of the society they serve. The people who commit the most clients are going to have the most confrontations with the police. The police are going to make mistakes all humans make mistakes. No community or race group should hold Police to a higher standard than they hold themselves.
There have been over 600 people killed by police this year. The great majority of them, over 500, are not black. Yet nobody talks about them for hears about them. The police are reflection of the society they serve. The people who commit the most clients are going to have the most confrontations with the police. The police are going to make mistakes all humans make mistakes. No community or race group should hold Police to a higher standard than they hold themselves.
10
all I want to do is believe what I see - where is the tape - since when do we not trust the police - since we see all the recordings of police in action.
1
All you do is believe what you want to see.
1
that's a ridiculous thing to say - however - since the tape will be suppressed from the public - that point is moot. the secret police state has spoken.
1
So it means nothing to these protestors that he had a gun? It’s just an automatic protest/blame the police?
As for the NYT, shame on you for being so irresponsible in your “reporting". Some days I don’t recognize the paper. IMO, you’ve sort of morphed into a biased propaganda rag. You are complicit in the violence when you reward it.
As for the NYT, shame on you for being so irresponsible in your “reporting". Some days I don’t recognize the paper. IMO, you’ve sort of morphed into a biased propaganda rag. You are complicit in the violence when you reward it.
17
Take a good look at the video tapes of the looters and rioters in downtown Charlotte: they are both black and white. Some criminal elements came to expropriate a demonstration about a serious matter.
North Carolina's Republican legislature and governor have put a lid on a pressure-cooker and turned up the heat. Their redistricting, their laws attempting to restrict voter participation, HB2 licensing discrimination—these items all form part of a repressive whole. We cannot then expect the lid not to blow off the pot when the safety valve is held down.
And the safety valve in this case would be release of cop-camera videos proving that the original victim was holding a gun. He had a long criminal record, and that is relevant to the discussion if police have computers in their squad cars relating that information. Oh, but the legislature passed a law against the release of cop-cam videos. So the steam will continue to seek escape.
North Carolina's Republican legislature and governor have put a lid on a pressure-cooker and turned up the heat. Their redistricting, their laws attempting to restrict voter participation, HB2 licensing discrimination—these items all form part of a repressive whole. We cannot then expect the lid not to blow off the pot when the safety valve is held down.
And the safety valve in this case would be release of cop-camera videos proving that the original victim was holding a gun. He had a long criminal record, and that is relevant to the discussion if police have computers in their squad cars relating that information. Oh, but the legislature passed a law against the release of cop-cam videos. So the steam will continue to seek escape.
3
The political leadership in Charlotte and North Carolina have been very weak in their response to the civil unrest, it appears. They waited until late on the second night to call in the National Guard, almost 24 hours after they first lost control of the streets. Such slackness does no favor to any side in this conflict, and demonstrates how many of our politicians seem to have forgotten that their first responsibility is to maintain order on our streets.
2
We will never learn to be a civilized society unless we forget our antiquated Western Movie gun loving attitude. These movies are still popular in TV and impress our children and our young people. Our government is busy overseas to solve the problems(?) of other countries instead of providing security ( It's first duty) to our citizens. Even compared to Iraq and Syria in turmoil more people are murdered in the streets in this country .
5
I believe you're right about America's fixation on guns, nearly all of our heroes shoot people. We also export guns more than any other nation.
But realistically, a lot more people get murdered every day in Iraq and Syria than here. Their problems with violence are far, far greater than ours, and while ours might be solvable someday, their culture doesn't seem capable of fixing the demented violence.
But realistically, a lot more people get murdered every day in Iraq and Syria than here. Their problems with violence are far, far greater than ours, and while ours might be solvable someday, their culture doesn't seem capable of fixing the demented violence.
Truth is that there was not much murder in Iraq, Syria and Libya under Saddam, Assad and Qaddafi, comparable to US, before we intervened in these countries. The cause of killings in Syria is not due to personal actions of the civilians but to the CIVIL WAR!
Dear Turgut Dincer,
Ah, the killing has gone up in all three nations since the wars, undoubtedly. But you're overlooking the fact that Saddam Hussain, Assad, and Qaddafi all killed thousands of their own civilians with extrajudicial killings. Violence has been more likely in those lands than in ours, pretty much always.
Ah, the killing has gone up in all three nations since the wars, undoubtedly. But you're overlooking the fact that Saddam Hussain, Assad, and Qaddafi all killed thousands of their own civilians with extrajudicial killings. Violence has been more likely in those lands than in ours, pretty much always.
In this incident the dead man was black, the police officer is black, and the police chief is black. Is it about race now?
20
It is for you, apparently.
Yes.
1
the media reports that the family claims he was carrying a book but leaves out the fact that the family members were not there WHY?
15
This is Obama's legacy as the first black president.
He has incited situations like this by immediately accusing the police of racism in other incidents.
Inviting the black lives matters group to the white house only helped to fuel the violence.
His economic policies have resulted in a shrinking middle class further adding to the problem.
He has incited situations like this by immediately accusing the police of racism in other incidents.
Inviting the black lives matters group to the white house only helped to fuel the violence.
His economic policies have resulted in a shrinking middle class further adding to the problem.
13
I thought that there could not be any worse legacy that Bush for any president. Well the nobel peace prize winning community organizer will beat Bush in leaving a devastating legacy of race relations set back 40 years.
2
When did Obama ever accuse police of racism? He's actually been pretty even handed when it's come to these events?
1
What you're failing to understand Don and a lot of America is that these problems have always been there. Policing and race have imploded by continuous shooting after shooting year after year, day after day. And to throw it on the back of the "first black president" as if he suppose to pull out his magic wand and to erase systemic and institutionalized racism, intentional bias etc. Because of his black. Its flat out nonsense.
America is just know being exposed to what's been happening in Black communities for years now. These protest may not be as calm and presented in a peaceful and constructive matter. But to just continue to focus on the negative protest, black lives matter groups, and not look at actually what's happening is unfortunate.
America is just know being exposed to what's been happening in Black communities for years now. These protest may not be as calm and presented in a peaceful and constructive matter. But to just continue to focus on the negative protest, black lives matter groups, and not look at actually what's happening is unfortunate.
1
What I want to know us why deadly force needs to be applied at every opportunity? Given the choice, wouldn't a taser be better than shooting someone?
Maybe I watched too many westerns in my youth, but whatever happened to warnings and warning (non-lethal) shots anyway?
Could this be the result of all the violent video/computer games our children have been playing for the past 20 years?
Maybe I watched too many westerns in my youth, but whatever happened to warnings and warning (non-lethal) shots anyway?
Could this be the result of all the violent video/computer games our children have been playing for the past 20 years?
5
Certainly a contributing factor is the failure of those stopped by the police to obey immediately and unquestioningly the instructions, or commands if you will, given by the police. I suspect the police would shoot less often if people did as they were told. Of course the police make mistakes and stop or detain those not involved in criminal activities, but the time to dispute the actions of police holding drawn weapons is not before complying with their orders.
5
"Certainly a contributing factor is the failure of those stopped by the police to obey immediately and unquestioningly the instructions, or commands if you will, given by the police."
I agree with this in general. However, failure to simply comply with police instructions should not be a death sentence. My concern is the possibility of misunderstanding or mishearing an order by a police officer and being shot because the officer was afraid that my mistake was a threat to him.
I agree with this in general. However, failure to simply comply with police instructions should not be a death sentence. My concern is the possibility of misunderstanding or mishearing an order by a police officer and being shot because the officer was afraid that my mistake was a threat to him.
Argus, I agree. But, with the games today, players are "rewarded" for game behavior that would be considered agressive and risky in real life situations. Through repetition (and with kids today there is a lot of playing) the "trained" response becomes one of risk and aggression. The popularity of these games means "good" and "bad" guys are learning this behavior.
1
Violent rioting serves as perpetual Law@Order free advertising for inevitable once unthinkable President Trump.
14
Unfortunately, Youtube has raw video on any subject, especially violent acts committed by people regardless of color. It's an unfiltered medium - for the most part - that memorializes and informs what the mainstream media refuses to do.
Obviously the images are not pretty and we do have a race problem in this country.
However, it's time for the black community to step up and be accountable to themselves. Some Blacks, Asians and Latinos in this country figured out what needs to be done in order to get to the next level of society:
Go to school and listen, respect, behave and execute what's been taught. Of course some schools are not the best, however, stop acting out and do the work, there are teachers there and grades to achieve.
Be effective parents, in other words, have a structure that nurtures your children. I saw maybe 1-2 % of the assembled as someone I would hire based on how they present themselves.
Respect the law, the liberals are losing patience and credibility having to trivialize crimes/incarcerated blacks as the family dog that bites.
In watching last night's riots, I saw more socializing, destruction and antagonism than protesting.
Smarten up.
Obviously the images are not pretty and we do have a race problem in this country.
However, it's time for the black community to step up and be accountable to themselves. Some Blacks, Asians and Latinos in this country figured out what needs to be done in order to get to the next level of society:
Go to school and listen, respect, behave and execute what's been taught. Of course some schools are not the best, however, stop acting out and do the work, there are teachers there and grades to achieve.
Be effective parents, in other words, have a structure that nurtures your children. I saw maybe 1-2 % of the assembled as someone I would hire based on how they present themselves.
Respect the law, the liberals are losing patience and credibility having to trivialize crimes/incarcerated blacks as the family dog that bites.
In watching last night's riots, I saw more socializing, destruction and antagonism than protesting.
Smarten up.
12
When will the white community step up to be accountable?
When that happens perhaps sanctimonious moral preening might actually be justifiable. Until then...
When that happens perhaps sanctimonious moral preening might actually be justifiable. Until then...
3
Yup. I happen to BE "white," whatever that means, and I'm tired first of all of the stupid lie that says the President, and every other black leader in the country, hasn't called again and again for an end to violence, and a return to education and decent family life.
I'm also way past bored with these silly lectures, coming as they do from a community that loses tens of thousands a year to gun suicide, to ODs on meth and heroin, and a community responsible for nearly all the mass shootings and serial killings in this country.
Grow up, white people.
I'm also way past bored with these silly lectures, coming as they do from a community that loses tens of thousands a year to gun suicide, to ODs on meth and heroin, and a community responsible for nearly all the mass shootings and serial killings in this country.
Grow up, white people.
1
Lilo - How so??
I'm sure the NYT will give you the space.
I'm sure the NYT will give you the space.
4
When carrying a weapon, visibly, in an open carry state, can one ignore police commands to put the weapon down?
In an open carry state, if someone is just walking around in a mall or restaurant or golf course, can a police officer ask him or her to put the weapon down just because the officer has a bad premonition of how the weapon will be used?
In this case, the officers thought Mr Scott was the suspect they were seeking based on seeing a gun, in fact he was not their suspect.
It seems having weapons can heavily influence (and in this tragic case completely change) a police officer's perspective (especially if they are under pressure). So living in an open carry state can be truly risky business if you have a gun simply because you just like guns and would never use them for harming others.
I would imagine the flash of a gun--whether it be real and a prized possession (like an accessory), a bb-gun made to appear real and deadly, a toy made to look real and deadly, or a gun meant to be a lethal weapon are hard to decipher from each other.
That is a lot of weaponry to be "carrying around"--its presence and purpose being hard to discern in these fatal incidents between authorities and citizens and between citizens and other citizens.
In an open carry state, if someone is just walking around in a mall or restaurant or golf course, can a police officer ask him or her to put the weapon down just because the officer has a bad premonition of how the weapon will be used?
In this case, the officers thought Mr Scott was the suspect they were seeking based on seeing a gun, in fact he was not their suspect.
It seems having weapons can heavily influence (and in this tragic case completely change) a police officer's perspective (especially if they are under pressure). So living in an open carry state can be truly risky business if you have a gun simply because you just like guns and would never use them for harming others.
I would imagine the flash of a gun--whether it be real and a prized possession (like an accessory), a bb-gun made to appear real and deadly, a toy made to look real and deadly, or a gun meant to be a lethal weapon are hard to decipher from each other.
That is a lot of weaponry to be "carrying around"--its presence and purpose being hard to discern in these fatal incidents between authorities and citizens and between citizens and other citizens.
4
Most of the carried weapons would probably be holstered handguns. People sometimes carry around long guns and there is not much to be done if they are not pointed at other people.
1
And what does the gun-toting citizen fear most? Running into someone just like themselves.
In Ohio, open carry of rifles, like AR-15s, is perfectly legal with no permit requirement. You can carry your rifle into MacDonalds or Wal-Mart, and just about everywhere else (if you are white). In 2014, a black man shopping at an Ohio Wal-Mart picked up a toy assault-type rifle to buy for his son. Alarmed white customers called the police. The cops arrived and found him on the phone, the rifle pointed at the ground. Under Ohio rifle open-carry laws he would have been legal even if the rifle were a real AR-15-style assault weapon. The cops immediately yelled at him to drop the gun and by the time he could say "It's just a toy," they had shot him to death - maybe 3 seconds from when they arrived.
I've seen photos sent by friends in Ohio of Tea Party nuts walking around with Gadsden Flag or Dixie War Flag t-shirts openly carrying real semi-automatic assault rifles on the streets and in line to buy a cup of coffee at Starbucks. Of course, being white, they were not shot by police.
I've seen photos sent by friends in Ohio of Tea Party nuts walking around with Gadsden Flag or Dixie War Flag t-shirts openly carrying real semi-automatic assault rifles on the streets and in line to buy a cup of coffee at Starbucks. Of course, being white, they were not shot by police.
Guns = Chaos
6
Guns = Protection from tyranny and personal safety.
2
Postumus drugs in a dead man's car?
That sounds like a story I heard from a friend from (then Apartheid) South-Africa:
There was this man practicing his new handgun in his garden, when another man walked past on the open public path past the lawn - and the bullet hit him, deadly!
Now, the man from the garden called the police, and a policeman came - looked at the man with the gun (who was white) and the man on the ground (who was black). He thought shortly, then broke a pole from the fence on the side, put it next to the dead man, took out his report booklet and asked:
"And now, tell me how it was when this man attacked you, Sir!"
That sounds like a story I heard from a friend from (then Apartheid) South-Africa:
There was this man practicing his new handgun in his garden, when another man walked past on the open public path past the lawn - and the bullet hit him, deadly!
Now, the man from the garden called the police, and a policeman came - looked at the man with the gun (who was white) and the man on the ground (who was black). He thought shortly, then broke a pole from the fence on the side, put it next to the dead man, took out his report booklet and asked:
"And now, tell me how it was when this man attacked you, Sir!"
2
race riots under Obama have become worse and more violent. The NYT failed to report that the black officer shot a black armed individual who threatened the police with that gun. Threatening police with a gun has absoluitely nothing to do with legally carry a weapon, period. The rioting, looting and attacks on police are despicable and a product of the false narrative pushed by the liberal media and the NYT. This entire "Black lives MAtter" and other protests is built on the false idea that police are shooting innocent blacks. Remember the "hands up don't shoot"? , it was a lie. What about Baltimore? The police were found innocent by a mainly black jury and black judge. The NYT and all the left wing media must stop writing inaccurate inflammatory articles.
24
That's the police version of the incident. There is a reason why lots of folks don't believe the police.....they have a history of lying
This incident has nothing to do with open carry laws ... and yet ..
It's not surprising that so many of the NYTimes Picks are commenters using this space to criticize the NC's open carry gun law. "Isn't North Carolina an open carry state?" asks the most popular of the Reader's Picks.
But the right to openly carry a gun doesn't include the right to threaten others with a gun, nor to ignore law enforcement's instructions to put a gun down.
Neither side in this dispute is claiming that Mr. Scott was peacefully and lawfully openly carrying a weapon. The rival claims are that he was reading a book or that he was threatening law enforcement with a gun and did not comply with instructions to put the gun down.
None of us know which claim is true but this incident has nothing to do with open carry laws. Your opportunism is shameful.
It's not surprising that so many of the NYTimes Picks are commenters using this space to criticize the NC's open carry gun law. "Isn't North Carolina an open carry state?" asks the most popular of the Reader's Picks.
But the right to openly carry a gun doesn't include the right to threaten others with a gun, nor to ignore law enforcement's instructions to put a gun down.
Neither side in this dispute is claiming that Mr. Scott was peacefully and lawfully openly carrying a weapon. The rival claims are that he was reading a book or that he was threatening law enforcement with a gun and did not comply with instructions to put the gun down.
None of us know which claim is true but this incident has nothing to do with open carry laws. Your opportunism is shameful.
8
The video should be shown to the public. The law that precludes a viewing during an investigation does not go into effect until October 1st. Why was it more than 12 hours before a gun was "found"? Mr. Scott was not being pursued by the police. The rumors of the decedent's record shows charges were dismissed yet hate radio and posters here continue to say Mr. Scott has a long record and a felony which is false.
Neighbors say that Mr. Scott was disabled and that he read in his car every day while he waited for his son to get off the school bus. Did his disability impede his ability to get in and out of the car as quickly as the police demanded?
What is find bothersome is that the police are investigating the police and they hold all the evidence.
Neighbors say that Mr. Scott was disabled and that he read in his car every day while he waited for his son to get off the school bus. Did his disability impede his ability to get in and out of the car as quickly as the police demanded?
What is find bothersome is that the police are investigating the police and they hold all the evidence.
18
This stuff ain't true, either. Nonsense helps nobody.
2
why does the media always have to mention race as if it was the sole factor for the shooting? when a white person is shot by the police there is never a mention of his or her skin color. you are furthering the perpetuation of this issue by intentionally wording your articles so that readers focus on the subject of race.
14
Gosh, the Fox Bots got the memo and are out in full force in this comments section with their canned talking points.
2
I think what you're finding is that a large portion of liberals are also against this ridiculous race baiting.
The extremists in the left wing media are doing real damage to the liberal ideology. This foolishness only pushes Trump closer to the presidency.
The extremists in the left wing media are doing real damage to the liberal ideology. This foolishness only pushes Trump closer to the presidency.
12
I'm a liberal, and I believe the riots are negative and should be stopped by force, and that Mr. Scott was probably shot for good reason. I'm no Foxbot, I despise Trump and think Fox is full of lies and propaganda. But I'm analytical and don't care for the knee-jerk reaction against police, particularly when, as in this case, their shooting seems to be entirely justified.
6
Why is a government preventing peaceful protest?
Why is a government shooting tear gas at its citizens?
With every act of violence against peaceful citizens, Republican Pat McCrory sees his chances of being reelected Governor slip away....as is should.
Why is a government shooting tear gas at its citizens?
With every act of violence against peaceful citizens, Republican Pat McCrory sees his chances of being reelected Governor slip away....as is should.
8
"Why is a government shooting tear gas at its citizens?"
Possibly because these "peaceful protestors" are rioting and looting stores.
Possibly because these "peaceful protestors" are rioting and looting stores.
6
It's not a peaceful protest. The riots prove that.
8
I don't think even the most progressive person will call destruction of property a "peaceful protest." What many of us believe we saw on television news media's coverage of the events in Charlotte is called rioting.
Our constitution guarantees our right to assemble peaceably and to petition the government for the redress of our grievances. It does not guarantee a right to disturb the public order or riot.
Our constitution guarantees our right to assemble peaceably and to petition the government for the redress of our grievances. It does not guarantee a right to disturb the public order or riot.
5
Law and order is getting out of hand not only because of the unrest but because of sporadic unjustified shooting of innocent African Americans. With the president being African American. The attorney general being African American and the police chief of Charlotte being African American, It seems the African American leadership is failing the African Americans in several places in America. Time for a change in leadership. The presidential elections could not have come soon enough.
4
There's over 600 killings by the police this year so far and over 500 of them are not black. These numbers with the just the blacks were not targeted by police. Although their percentages are higher, they also have the highest percentage of crime, therefore have the most confrontation with the police.
4
I did not know that. It is a serious problem that needs to be dealt with. Law enforcement are human beings and prone to mistakes and panic and like Trump said choking. What I hear from the streets of Charlotte is enough is enough. Violence on both sides has to stop. Admit that there is anger among both White and Blacks but resorting to violence is not the best option.
2
"Civilian on civilian?"
Did we start military rule in the US even before Putin is invited to take over command by Trump?
Did we start military rule in the US even before Putin is invited to take over command by Trump?
3
We saw Terence Crusher mowed down in cold blood. We heard his daughter say that her father was reading - he didn't have a gun - he was waiting for his son to come home on the school bus. We know what George Zimmerman did and got away with - because his father is a corrupt judge and his mother is a corrupt court clerk. We have seen the story about how the police officer was filmed placing a fake gun at the scene of a victim of a police homicide. We saw how Eric Garner was choked to death by a gang of hoodlums calling themselves police while he was doing nothing more than selling single tobacco cigarettes in Wall St's criminal economy! We saw how an unarmed Walter Scott was shot from behind while fleeing in fear for his life by a racist cop - and as if this were the 19th century during slavery!! So stop your lies! You don't have to be African American to see what's going on. Power to the People! Revolution!
7
What we didn't see are the 15,000 murders icommitted every year in the states by people other than the police.
4
Not civilian on civilian shooting! Video on twitter and instagram from this evening. The police shot another man during the protest. This is inaccurate reporting. So how can we trust any news? I'm seriously questioning any news I've ever seen. This is unfortunate. Poor charlotte civilians.
3
I believe Hillary Clinton will disarm the police and thus peace will reign throughout the United States.
7
I am certain that she will not disarm her own Secret Service goons. Always one rule for her and another for "ordinary people".
5
What is worse than being poor and black in the US? Being poor and black and male.
6
How being about being a cop and being blamed for everything that goes wrong.
6
This breaks my heart. These people are so sick of this modern day slavery and oppression that they're burning their own communities in blinding frustration. It's unleashed anger. This shooting isn't anything new - they knew it happened all the time but there was never any justice. And now, even with cell video, there isn't any justice. You don't think white people would riot if this stuff was happening to them?
11
How dreadful.
Whatever next? :
More people being shot in more protests set off by people getting shot in civilian-on-civilian protests about people getting again getting shot in unrest caused by more people being shot ... &cetera and so on?
A society armed to the teeth is inescapably unstable and dangerous.
Foreign friends of the US watch in horror - and sadness.
Whatever next? :
More people being shot in more protests set off by people getting shot in civilian-on-civilian protests about people getting again getting shot in unrest caused by more people being shot ... &cetera and so on?
A society armed to the teeth is inescapably unstable and dangerous.
Foreign friends of the US watch in horror - and sadness.
1
The narrative of the innocent black man shot by the police is wearing thinner and thinner. The cop that killed that armed black man was black as well, and witnesses say that the cop's orders to drop the gun were ignored. But, as ever, rioting and looting are a must..
18
The cop that killed the black man was white. The cops lied and put it on a black cop. And the rioting resulted when riot police showed up at a peaceful protest and harrassed protestors. But they didn't show the cause of the riot on CNN, only the result. I live in Charlotte, so there are a lot of people on my social media feeds who were a part of the peaceful protests and witnessed things got ugly when riot police showed up when there was no riot. There have been many peaceful protests in Charlotte before without riots ensuing. Why now?
1
Those of you commenting that the officer in Charlotte who killed the man is black fail to miss the entire point. It shows that you all have not been listening, despite countless protests across the country now. It is not just about black men being killed. It is about excessive use of force, the need for better training and transparency, and implicit/explicit bias that can often lead to unnecessary escalation in cases like these (FYI, black cops can be biased too!). This is North Carolina, where state officials are trying their hardest to limit access to body cam footage. They want less transparency and less accountability. This is also Charlotte, NC, where three years ago, a black man was killed, there was a mistrial in the manslaughter case against the officer that killed him, and prosecutors declined to retry the case. There is context here that makes people angry and mistrustful. And this history of no one being held accountable for some of these deaths, both in Charlotte and other places, is extremely relevant - and probably more to the point than the fact in of itself that more black men have been killed. It is not just about race. It is also about policy. With so many civilians, both black and white, dead at the hands of police (hundreds this year alone), we should all be able to agree that we need better policing and training. There are plenty of great cops, but our systems still need to do better.
Conservatives are fond of noting that rebellion against government when it seriously intrudes on civil liberties is an old American tradition.
Bacon's Rebellion in the 1670's, the rebellion against Great Britain, the internal civil war against the Revolution, Shay's Rebellion, and the Southern States' Secession all demonstrate that even when an eruption of anti-government hostility does not reflect the majority will, it always identifies a failure of government to handle a problem effectively.
Bacon's Rebellion in the 1670's, the rebellion against Great Britain, the internal civil war against the Revolution, Shay's Rebellion, and the Southern States' Secession all demonstrate that even when an eruption of anti-government hostility does not reflect the majority will, it always identifies a failure of government to handle a problem effectively.
2
Police killing people without a working body cam should be treated like car drivers killing people without a valid drivers license. This whole thing is getting out of hand.
4
When somebody is stopped by the police and they get out of their car holding a gun the police officer could be dead in less than 5 seconds so of course he had to shoot the criminal. Also the police officer is black so what is the problem? These protesters are disgracing themselves and their race.
13
You mean the human race?
We have created a gun-friendly culture. We are our own worst enemy.
5
@MichaelEvans-Layng
"In any case, I can't understand how looting expensive electronic items from Walmart or throwing rock into the windshields of passing motorists is justified or even related."
It's called rage, which tends to be irrational once you get to that point."
Lol - this is ridiculous!
It is not called 'rage' - it is called criminal behavior and lack of character!
And it is also called imposing pain - physical or financial - on others.
The fact that the NYT 'picked' this post shows how it has lost any journalistic credibility and sense of bias.
The fact that it 'forgot' to mention that the officer who short the armed man is also black shows a lack of character equal to that of the looters vandalizing and robbing stores and businesses big and small.
You have lost all sense of fair, unbiased journalism.
I'm tired of your myriad of opinion pieces poorly disguised as factual articles.
"In any case, I can't understand how looting expensive electronic items from Walmart or throwing rock into the windshields of passing motorists is justified or even related."
It's called rage, which tends to be irrational once you get to that point."
Lol - this is ridiculous!
It is not called 'rage' - it is called criminal behavior and lack of character!
And it is also called imposing pain - physical or financial - on others.
The fact that the NYT 'picked' this post shows how it has lost any journalistic credibility and sense of bias.
The fact that it 'forgot' to mention that the officer who short the armed man is also black shows a lack of character equal to that of the looters vandalizing and robbing stores and businesses big and small.
You have lost all sense of fair, unbiased journalism.
I'm tired of your myriad of opinion pieces poorly disguised as factual articles.
16
The news media needs to watch a season of the shoe "Network News." Newspapers and TV news has become an entertainment business. They fan the fires in order to get more readers/viewers. They have become disgusting. Watching the news this morning a reverend simply ask that before it is stated which group fired a bullet that injured a spectator that either an eyewitness come forward or testing be done on the bullet. The reported then twisted this man's words to spin as if he was a cussing the police. He tried several times to clarify. The rest of the media than began incorrectly repeating the story creating more tension.
1
are you forced to read this filthy yellow rag ?
or are you doing some kind of penance ?
One of the big failures of the great society was the financing and building of projects all over the country. We need to tear these neighborhoods down and come up with a housing plan that integrates neighborhoods, schools, police departments, etc., etc,. etc.
It's time we integrated our country and fostered a civil society based on respect for the human condition that's reflected in our law. We have become an armed camp with many police forces looking like military battalions and a legal system that is often in the business of raising revenue by harassing it's citizens.
This has been going on for decades and will continue...
It's time we integrated our country and fostered a civil society based on respect for the human condition that's reflected in our law. We have become an armed camp with many police forces looking like military battalions and a legal system that is often in the business of raising revenue by harassing it's citizens.
This has been going on for decades and will continue...
2
If I recall in the Tulsa shooting, the police first said that the victim was resisting arrest and reaching into the car for a gun. When the video came out, his hands were up and the car door and window were closed.
I find it most disturbing that the Charlotte officers either didn't have their body cams, or didn't have them on. Then the Mayor, despite the brewing trouble, HASN'T EVEN REVIEWED the dashcam video. You would think that would be done maybe 6-12 hours after the shooting, or at least when the first nights protests started. On top of that, they aren't going to release the video, which may actually prove the legitimate use of force. Why wouldn't they release it then?
I find it most disturbing that the Charlotte officers either didn't have their body cams, or didn't have them on. Then the Mayor, despite the brewing trouble, HASN'T EVEN REVIEWED the dashcam video. You would think that would be done maybe 6-12 hours after the shooting, or at least when the first nights protests started. On top of that, they aren't going to release the video, which may actually prove the legitimate use of force. Why wouldn't they release it then?
8
coz theyre cops and you cant make them
so there
no keep moving or you just might get shot
As long as police (even Black police) are conditioned to see all black young men as potential criminals and threats, they will treat them differently than white young men. They will be more afraid & that fear will make them more likely to act with deadly force even in the absence of a real threat. A frightened mind leads to rash actions.
Donald Trump's solution to crime in the cities is to institute NY-style racially profiled stop-&-frisk policies across the country. First, stop-&-frisk was ruled unconstitutional in 2011. Second, in NYC, over 80% of the victims of stop-&-frisk were black. The other 20% were mostly Hispanic and some whites. Third, per capita, white people being frisked had a higher instance of contraband drugs or guns than black or Hispanic victims. Fourth, the extreme racial disparities of stop-&-frisk taught the black community that they were all stereotyped as potential criminals just based on the color of their skin..
And, fifth, after stop-&-frisk was ended by court order, violent crime, including murders, in NYC actually fell & are continuing to fall each year according to the FBI's annual crime reports (though don't be surprised if fact-free Trump and Giuliani claim otherwise).
Only when ALL American citizens believe they are treated equally by police, are able to expect equal justice when victimized, & are not singled out by race, religion, mode of dress, or accent will we stop seeing these stereotype-driven & fear-driven shootings.
Donald Trump's solution to crime in the cities is to institute NY-style racially profiled stop-&-frisk policies across the country. First, stop-&-frisk was ruled unconstitutional in 2011. Second, in NYC, over 80% of the victims of stop-&-frisk were black. The other 20% were mostly Hispanic and some whites. Third, per capita, white people being frisked had a higher instance of contraband drugs or guns than black or Hispanic victims. Fourth, the extreme racial disparities of stop-&-frisk taught the black community that they were all stereotyped as potential criminals just based on the color of their skin..
And, fifth, after stop-&-frisk was ended by court order, violent crime, including murders, in NYC actually fell & are continuing to fall each year according to the FBI's annual crime reports (though don't be surprised if fact-free Trump and Giuliani claim otherwise).
Only when ALL American citizens believe they are treated equally by police, are able to expect equal justice when victimized, & are not singled out by race, religion, mode of dress, or accent will we stop seeing these stereotype-driven & fear-driven shootings.
4
According to the Washington Post, there have been 697 people killed by police so far in 2016. 525 of them were non-black. Not one of those deaths has been covered in the national media. Care to comment?
7
Where's Wayne La Pierre when we really need him? He should have been standing on top of a car somewhere yammering about how all of us should be armed to the teeth.
I don't know what's gone wrong with this country but it seems sanity has taken a vacation: Cops shooting unarmed back people almost monthly somewhere; unarmed black people bust into (presumably white-owned) stores in retaliation.
We need to get a grip on ourselves.
I don't know what's gone wrong with this country but it seems sanity has taken a vacation: Cops shooting unarmed back people almost monthly somewhere; unarmed black people bust into (presumably white-owned) stores in retaliation.
We need to get a grip on ourselves.
5
you are living at a seminal moment in history
not everyone gets to see th beginning of th destruction of their country
and now w sat telly and internet you get a seat on th 50 yard line
pop open some of what americans call beer but which isnt and enjoy th show
Why is it that these cops shoot to kill instead of disable? The NYC cops didn't shoot to kill the latest bomber. Europe doesn't shoot to kill. These cops need better training, both in judgment and accuracy.
10
Re-posting comments from another NYT article answering a similar comment which are usually made after police shootings.
Officers are taught to aim for the most body mass. The thinking is that if you aim for an extremity, you're more likely to miss and thus not disable the person, and the bullet is more likely to continue on its way and strike a bystander.
Because if you shoot at a knee, a very small target compared with a person's trunk, the bullet then proceeds to ricochet and endanger other people. Meanwhile the perp, who you missed, just shot you. He didn't aim at your knee.
Even for a trained police person it is difficult to hit a small target in a stressfull situation. They are not shooting to kill but to stop the threat by shooting center mass. The low power pistol rounds most police carry require more than one shot to do this.
This comes up a lot, but police weapons are mere pistols, very inaccurate. Police are trained not to fire at arms or legs because that's a very tough shot to make, and they are not Olympic sharpshooters. Firing at extremities leads to a good chance of missing and hitting some bystander, so all police are trained to aim for the center of the torso.
Also, a shot to the knee can go an inch high, sever the femoral artery, and kill the person within minutes. Basically if cops fire their guns the expectation is that they will probably kill their target, and this is a great reason not to pull out a gun at them.
Officers are taught to aim for the most body mass. The thinking is that if you aim for an extremity, you're more likely to miss and thus not disable the person, and the bullet is more likely to continue on its way and strike a bystander.
Because if you shoot at a knee, a very small target compared with a person's trunk, the bullet then proceeds to ricochet and endanger other people. Meanwhile the perp, who you missed, just shot you. He didn't aim at your knee.
Even for a trained police person it is difficult to hit a small target in a stressfull situation. They are not shooting to kill but to stop the threat by shooting center mass. The low power pistol rounds most police carry require more than one shot to do this.
This comes up a lot, but police weapons are mere pistols, very inaccurate. Police are trained not to fire at arms or legs because that's a very tough shot to make, and they are not Olympic sharpshooters. Firing at extremities leads to a good chance of missing and hitting some bystander, so all police are trained to aim for the center of the torso.
Also, a shot to the knee can go an inch high, sever the femoral artery, and kill the person within minutes. Basically if cops fire their guns the expectation is that they will probably kill their target, and this is a great reason not to pull out a gun at them.
1
Dear EZ,
Thanks for quoting me in the last two paragraphs there. I think it was a good point too, and it should always be mentioned. If police fire their weapons, they have no choice but to fire for the torso.
Thanks for quoting me in the last two paragraphs there. I think it was a good point too, and it should always be mentioned. If police fire their weapons, they have no choice but to fire for the torso.
VOTE. Use your vote to get rid of the egregious inequality in your beautiful state.
7
It is a sad time in America when journalists no longer report, but instead insight and distort. An individual was shot during protest riots last night in Charlotte and no mention is made of the person who committed this crime and there is no attempt being made to apprehend this person. No mention or identities were made regarding individuals shooting weapons during this protest. No mention or identities were made as looting and other criminal activity was ongoing.
Only deaths occurring via police engagement are reported and only if white officers are involved and the victim is black. Annually, in Philadelphia and other major cities, the homicide rate of black on black crime is increasing and nationally numbers in the thousands and yet there is no reporting of this. And of course the wealthy athletes are kneeling.
This is not about race relations. It is about lack of accountability on all sides culminating in simple cause and effect.
Only deaths occurring via police engagement are reported and only if white officers are involved and the victim is black. Annually, in Philadelphia and other major cities, the homicide rate of black on black crime is increasing and nationally numbers in the thousands and yet there is no reporting of this. And of course the wealthy athletes are kneeling.
This is not about race relations. It is about lack of accountability on all sides culminating in simple cause and effect.
19
The identity of the shooter is not known. The mayor was asked this question.
While the plight of people of color in this country and their legitimate fear of the police is unimaginable, rioting and attacking police severely hurts their cause and debases them as members of the community. What makes matters much worse is that several of the most violent recent protests, including this one started before the facts could be investigated and disclosed. This is analogous to Obama trashing the Cambridge, MA police for requesting ID from the professor before he found out the the policeman was a long established, respected champion of, and instructor for diversity in the police department. The rioters are injuring people and destroying property and they look like wild, uncontrollable animals. How can any reasonable person respect or even want to pay attention to these actions. Everyone has a right to peacefully protest and intelligently bring positive attention to this legitimate cause. What is more amazing is that exponentially more black lives taken in this country are by other black persons, not the police. Where is the outrage and attempt to solve that problem? Why did a head of Black Lives Matter just resign from that organization after his home was burgled so that the police would resume patrols of his neighborhood? Aliening and attempting to kill all police is not the solution for this problem. Improving police policies, practices and training and monitoring the behavior in every major city is what is needed.
14
When Emmett Till and Medgar Evers were murdered most black lives were taken by other black people. That has nothing to do with the injustice of their murders and the refusal of the white system to do anything about it.
Most whites are killed by other whites yet for some reason the term "white-on-white" crime is never used. Why is that? It's because some people want to avoid talking about police violence against black people at all costs.
The best way to stop riots is to prevent them. The best way to do that is for state agents to stop extra-judicial executions of black people.
Most whites are killed by other whites yet for some reason the term "white-on-white" crime is never used. Why is that? It's because some people want to avoid talking about police violence against black people at all costs.
The best way to stop riots is to prevent them. The best way to do that is for state agents to stop extra-judicial executions of black people.
1
Vote Trump.
4
Why is NYT's headline don't mention police shooter is also black. Why make it a race issue.
23
it is a race issue -
6
Will - "Why make it a race issue."
Agenda!
Agenda!
14
Darrell Burks - Are the black officer who did the shooting and his black Chief of Police both racists?
10
Hard not to notice that absence of reporting in the NYT about the multiple hate crimes committed against white bystanders by these peaceful protestors.
They literally tried to throw a white photographer into a fire and beat and stripped a white man. That's just what was caught on film.
They literally tried to throw a white photographer into a fire and beat and stripped a white man. That's just what was caught on film.
37
Yup, NYTimes and media in general is blind when the person committing the crime is black, but god forbid the reverse happens and it will be all over the headlines. People have now seen through this kind of double standard and complete loss of journalistic sense. If NYTimes have any sense of self perseveration as a news paper of record, they will change their reporting radically, otherwise the days of paying subscribers are numbered.
7
NYT has an agenda to promote. That's why.
5
I wish to comment again on a point I made last night: has police training changed in any way as more and more people have permists for guns of all types, including hand guns? If I were a patrolman or woman today, I think I would have heightened uncertainty about everyone I stopped for even the most vacuous of reasons, like an expired license plate.
With so many armed, how is the critical judgement of the police affected? Are they prepared to deal with these situations in any way less than firing away first?
Also, something I've never understood, is why so many police-citizen confrontations, like the ones in Tulsa and Charlotte, end with death? Whatever happened to the notion of non-fatal wounding? And why are so many victims shot repeatedly by the police, when one shot might have been sufficient to incapacitate the suspect?
We saw in New Jersey this week that even in a shootout with a known suspect no one was killed, and the suspect will recover to face trail. Sholdn't that be a universally preferable outcome? Because unless some new policing standards are imposed in an increasingly violent gun environment, we face more and more civic upheaval and needless deaths.
With so many armed, how is the critical judgement of the police affected? Are they prepared to deal with these situations in any way less than firing away first?
Also, something I've never understood, is why so many police-citizen confrontations, like the ones in Tulsa and Charlotte, end with death? Whatever happened to the notion of non-fatal wounding? And why are so many victims shot repeatedly by the police, when one shot might have been sufficient to incapacitate the suspect?
We saw in New Jersey this week that even in a shootout with a known suspect no one was killed, and the suspect will recover to face trail. Sholdn't that be a universally preferable outcome? Because unless some new policing standards are imposed in an increasingly violent gun environment, we face more and more civic upheaval and needless deaths.
17
The coverage of the New York Times has stilted the perception of police-civilian interactions.
The Times only reports on police killings when a black is killed. The Times never reports on the killing of non-blacks by police.
Therefore, if you only read the New York Times, and you do not critically assess its reporting biases, you will have a distorted view of reality.
The Washington Post just reported that there have been 697 people killed by police so far in 2016. 525 of those people were not black. Ask yourself, 'Did you read about any of those 525 in the New York Times'?
The Times only reports on police killings when a black is killed. The Times never reports on the killing of non-blacks by police.
Therefore, if you only read the New York Times, and you do not critically assess its reporting biases, you will have a distorted view of reality.
The Washington Post just reported that there have been 697 people killed by police so far in 2016. 525 of those people were not black. Ask yourself, 'Did you read about any of those 525 in the New York Times'?
7
Most people at the police station doing whatever they can and do their job, the problem was too many police officers join the force with the intetion of disrupt the law with self issues and lack of commitment to protect citizens.
2
Widespread civil unrest. How did that work for the Democratic candidate in 1968?
9
As usual, the comments fall into two irreconcilable camps: 1. It is the police's fault. 2. It is the black men's fault. How about the proposition that both are at fault? Why do Americans find it so hard to cope with nuance, complexity or uncertainty? On the one hand, the American police are poorly trained and unprofessional compared with policemen in other parts of the world. Shooting to kill every time you imagine you are in danger would instantly disqualify you from being a policeman in the UK or Scandinavia (in fact, it'd land you in jail). On the other hand, poor communities of color in the US urban cores are rife with violence and social dysfunction. I'm in favor of strict gun control but while in Iceland, I learned that guns are ubiquitous in this tiny country with a tradition of hunting and sports shooting. Nor is it devoid of poverty, especially in the aftermath of the financial crisis. And yet they have one homicide per year on the average, and cops don't go around waving lethal weapons because they know nobody will shoot at them. So why are black communities so violent? Until an honest answer is given to this question by the communities themselves, more and more people will become skeptical about the BLM movement.
9
Why does police always shoot to kill? Cannot they be trained to use tasers or shoot to paralyze?
5
When someone has a gun, they are trained to disable that person so that they can't shoot anyone in the vicinity. A taser can lead to the person killing more people and aiming for the legs is very difficult and the bullet might injure someone in the area. They are trained to aim for the mass. Both black and white officers receive this same training. The goal is less people injured.
7
He was armed with a handgun.
5
The solution will not occur until people fight for interests of people unlike them. Whites for blacks, Asians for Latinos, and vice versa. Prosperous blacks for laid off whites in the rust belt, old for the young, singletons and DINKS for those with children, men for women, larger is for homos, citizens for illegals, and vice versa, and so on. And on and on.
Practice empathy, practice charity. All tribes have their issues. Taking action not only for our own tribe but doing so on the behalf of others: this is the only way to bridge the gaps, the only way to go on
Practice empathy, practice charity. All tribes have their issues. Taking action not only for our own tribe but doing so on the behalf of others: this is the only way to bridge the gaps, the only way to go on
9
There is absolutely no hope for this country. None.
10
Midnight EST: Charlotte local news is reporting that this was a civilian to civilian shooting and that the person did not die but is on life support at the hospital. This is not a peaceful protest, guys running around with shirts over their heads so they can not be identified smashing into the Charlotte Observer Offices and hotels, some looting at Time Warner Arena.. State of emergency has been issued and state police and national guard are on their way. Any excuse for trouble makers to loot and destroy property.
21
Looting a sporting goods store with NBA merchandise is protesting? Looks like some people used this tragedy not to express their outrage, but for some new sneakers and NBA gear. Disgusting.
33
Are there going to be more riots for the guy shot in front of the Omni hotel?
I bet the activists who incite the riots without the facts are proud of themselves.
I bet the activists who incite the riots without the facts are proud of themselves.
13
You fix it by STOPPING shooting unarmed people. I admire those that choose law enforcement as a career, and I know it is a hard one. But at a certain point in your life, you have to just realize, your life is NOT worth more than somebody else's. So hold the trigger until you can suss out the situation. If you get shot in the meanwhile, so be it. That is the job you signed up for. Not protect your life against all odds, but protect ours. In a cop-"suspect" situation, the cops should give the benefit of the doubt to the suspect, most likely non-violent. If they can't do that, they should t be on the job.
15
Dear Dana Butler,
The problem is, it looks like Mr. Scott was armed. The other problem is, some civilian shot another one dead at the riots, and he was definitely armed too. The trouble overall is that so many Americans are armed and willing to shoot cops, that cops have to be really ready to shoot back. Hesitation when confronted with an armed assailant will kill them.
And everyone is instinctively commanded to believe their life is more important than a stranger's. You cannot legislate that survival instinct away, and there's really no reason to try.
The problem is, it looks like Mr. Scott was armed. The other problem is, some civilian shot another one dead at the riots, and he was definitely armed too. The trouble overall is that so many Americans are armed and willing to shoot cops, that cops have to be really ready to shoot back. Hesitation when confronted with an armed assailant will kill them.
And everyone is instinctively commanded to believe their life is more important than a stranger's. You cannot legislate that survival instinct away, and there's really no reason to try.
12
Yes, how dare they want to save their own lives!
16
He was armed.
6
If the gentleman who was originally shot that started all this would have laid his weapon down as requested by the police officer instead of advancing on the officer with that gun out then none of this would have happen. I am sick and tired of people not obeying lawful orders from police officers and then the rest of that community crying out that their is a racial injustice!!! The officer who shot Mr. Scott was Black himself and defending himself from the threat of a person coming towards him brandishing a gun and not responding to requests to drop the weapon!!!
32
Some of us don't believe he had a weapon. Now do you get it?
First, we have only the official police explanation that Mr. Scott had a gun. Witnesses said he had a book and was there every school day, reading his book & waiting for his son to be dropped off by the school bus.
Second, for unknown reasons, though police have dash camera & body camera footage of the entire episode, they adamantly refuse to release it. If it showed what they claim, it may well have been a "righteous" shooting & we would never have seen demonstrations. The cops can end the demonstrations in a minute if they release the video & it backs their story.
Third, a gun was found near his left hand (he is right-handed), but there is no forensic evidence that he ever touched the gun. No fingerprints, no sweat, and, apparently, no DNA or any other trace evidence that ties him to the gun.
As a first responder for 30 years, working closely with police in NJ and NYC , I know many police officers. On several occasions the importance of carrying a "drop gun" to cover their butts in a bad shooting situation came up. A drop gun is a (usually untraceable) gun a cop has taken away from a perp in some earlier bust and not turned in as evidence, but kept. In some cases they are guns actually withdrawn from police evidence rooms, as in the recent news about a cop who was cleared of a shooting six years ago because a gun was found by the perp. Recently, it came out that the gun had actually been recovered 2 years earlier & had disappeared from the police locker.
Second, for unknown reasons, though police have dash camera & body camera footage of the entire episode, they adamantly refuse to release it. If it showed what they claim, it may well have been a "righteous" shooting & we would never have seen demonstrations. The cops can end the demonstrations in a minute if they release the video & it backs their story.
Third, a gun was found near his left hand (he is right-handed), but there is no forensic evidence that he ever touched the gun. No fingerprints, no sweat, and, apparently, no DNA or any other trace evidence that ties him to the gun.
As a first responder for 30 years, working closely with police in NJ and NYC , I know many police officers. On several occasions the importance of carrying a "drop gun" to cover their butts in a bad shooting situation came up. A drop gun is a (usually untraceable) gun a cop has taken away from a perp in some earlier bust and not turned in as evidence, but kept. In some cases they are guns actually withdrawn from police evidence rooms, as in the recent news about a cop who was cleared of a shooting six years ago because a gun was found by the perp. Recently, it came out that the gun had actually been recovered 2 years earlier & had disappeared from the police locker.
Yeah, according to police officers he was brandishing a gun. While I do believe that most officers perform their duties with integrity, I'm not going to believe he had a gun until the video provides proof. And I'm a white suburbanite. If events of the last few years have made me more cynical, think of how Blacks feel. By the way, for all of you who think that because the officer who shot Mr. Scott was Black means there was no racial prejudice, you're missing the point and are quite mistaken.
Its time for Obama to act. Dont need a national police dept. Need a meeting of police depts of the country and formulate a policy of restraint with guns and elimination of rogue policemen.
4
How about getting rid of the guns and the rogues (black, white, cop)... I'll wave my magic wand... you wave yours....
6
What would you do if you were a police officer and a man exited his vehicle with gun drawn and refused multiple orders to put it down?
9
Somehow police were able to show restraint when Cliven Bundy and his friends did just that.
White people point guns at the police, threaten them and manage NOT to get shot.
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/8-white-people-who-pointed-guns-...
Can you understand why black people might have an issue with this?
White people point guns at the police, threaten them and manage NOT to get shot.
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/8-white-people-who-pointed-guns-...
Can you understand why black people might have an issue with this?
Burn, baby, burn! That always works out well. Ask the people of Newark, for example, who waited 30 years for a supermarket to return to the area after the 1967 riots.
30
Well, what else can they do? They dare not go to a white area and try that-- with good reason.
7
my grandparents had a store in Newark during the riots - you are so right. the rioters ruined the city, and it will never come back to what it was -- a wonderful place to live!
10
No kidding. But as bad as every body thinks today is... we have still ALL come a long way since 1967.
1
The Hornets store looted. Perfect.
28
Another night of a ratings run for CNN (Crisis Now News). Unfortunately, it looks as though the guns-and-grab rabble took over what was a peaceful, lawful protest. The only stand-up figure I saw last night, other than the police officers, was the lone public defender trying to defuse the confrontations. Didn't see any clergy doing that.
9
Would somebody, CAN somebody justify the looting? It certainly seems that it detracts from valid outrage when some do this under the guise of demonstrating.
24
Rage.
Black on black violence at a Black Lives Matter protest. Can it get more ironic than this?
38
The problem in US is, as usual, that guns are used and carried by all sort of people and NOT only by "a well regulated Militia", as the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution declares
15
Blame the gun and not the perpetrator. Typical Democrat response.
5
The NRA has won. They bought Congress, and gun proliferation has made this country the least safe in the developing world. The prognosis: dire!
1
Inane comment.
"Protests." "Unrest." Such lovely words for mob violence.
33
Nothing as fun for cops as handling the classic neighborhood shoot-em up of ALL gun totin' irrational idiots.
5
It's sad the way that President Obama has not used his dual ethnicity to bring Blacks and whites together. Dr. Martin Luther King lived and died for racial equality. Now Mr. Obama and Mr. Sharpton only want revenge. There is not one racial incident in his Presidency where Mr. Obama has been the grownup in the room to say "can't we all just get along." He has never spoken about his half white side only his black side. African Americans in America in regards to race and jobs are much worse off under Obama than under Bush. Under Mrs. Clinton things for African Americans can only get worse as she will not be as attentive as Mr. Obama. In this election African Americans should vote for Trump who knows how to build, knows how to create jobs and also wants to better Obama for what he did for Black people.
9
The very false TP/GOP narrative. So you think things will be better with your Demagogue~Don? Don't bet on it!
I don't understand the readers who are saying that the article doesn't mention that the police officer who shot Scott is black (because, allegedly, the paper is trying to push a false narrative). The article very plainly DOES mention that fact. If anyone is trying to push a false narrative, it's these very readers. Here's the line, for those apparently incapable of seeing it:
"...Mr. Scott had brandished before an officer, who is also black, fatally shot him."
What's more, that line links to an article for more information on the matter. Good grief.
"...Mr. Scott had brandished before an officer, who is also black, fatally shot him."
What's more, that line links to an article for more information on the matter. Good grief.
14
Imagine that the entire country is black and the police officers are all black the court system is all black the prison system is all black the Congress and Senate is all black the president is black.
Imagine being a white person and being shot with your hands up and killed what will your family do now what no one files charges on the make up lies about what happened.
Let's face it the real message to black America is that it's a white country and we're going to keep it this way so tough
Imagine being a white person and being shot with your hands up and killed what will your family do now what no one files charges on the make up lies about what happened.
Let's face it the real message to black America is that it's a white country and we're going to keep it this way so tough
3
Hey, Berne, watch the documentary PEACE OFFICERS. White people get shot by white officers for no reason as well.
7
Ferguson's "Hands up, don't shoot!" story was a lie. But people like Beyonce and the op-ed writers keep pushing it.
9
Except it's not. In this instance alone, the cop was black, the chief of police was black, the attorney general of the united states is black and the president is black.
So much for your theory that people in power are all white.
So much for your theory that people in power are all white.
5
Nothing promotes social justice like rioting, robbery and looting.
29
I think a water cannon would be more effective and more humane than tear gas, Mace, and rubber bullets.
8
Obviously you've never been hit with one.
2
Martin Luther King, Jr. and Ghandi, to my knowledge, never looted a WalMart or a Charlotte Hornets merchandise store. Talk is cheap, and the actions of these "protesters" speak more loudly than their words.
26
Martin Luther King would be shedding tears by the tactics used by Black Lives Matter.
1
Even worse in SA at the universities. Seems they are the same low lives anywhere in the world.
11
These are rioters. Protestors don't break into NBA team stores, etc.
26
Maybe the cops should make black people strip down naked in public and twirl around few times.
What are Trump supporters if not the angry, looting rioters of White America? Instead of smashing a few store windows, they're going to take down the whole country.
7
black LIES matter should be sued for inciting a riot, they are doing nothing to promote dialog or provide any solutions, just violence, killing and looting of local businesses in there chaos.
18
A suggestion to both the police / mayor of Charlotte and to whatever leadership there may be for these protesters. Tomorrow night there should be 100,000 protesters, not the 100 or 200 seen on tonight's news video, but 100,000 people. And they should be led on a march past the Omni Hotel by 2 people, John Lewis and the Chief of the Dallas police department. And they should carry two things. Candles and plastic handcuffs. If they see anyone from their ranks acting violently, breaking windows, whatever, they should cuff them and call the police. But they should march down the streets of Charlotte in huge numbers in silence..
And the police should take their "Bull Connor" tactics and put them back in their historical closet. I watched the news video tonight and was waiting to see the police come out with the dogs and water cannons like this was the Pettis Bridge in 1963 Alabama. Dudes, wake up the the reality of 2016. Get the head of the Dallas police department into your meetings and learn how to handle the new world. I'm just saying.
And the police should take their "Bull Connor" tactics and put them back in their historical closet. I watched the news video tonight and was waiting to see the police come out with the dogs and water cannons like this was the Pettis Bridge in 1963 Alabama. Dudes, wake up the the reality of 2016. Get the head of the Dallas police department into your meetings and learn how to handle the new world. I'm just saying.
2
North Carolina. Pat McCrory. Riot teams. The National Guard. Escalation of control instead of respectfully responding to the people. The wrong formula.
1
A respectful response would be appropriate if it were a peaceful protest. It was not.
5
I'm not sure what really happened, and neither is anyone else in the public until they see the video! Thank god the police officer wasn't white or it would have been worse...... When are these idiot protester going to learn that violence doesn't work??? That is freaking crazy, it's just another way for certain wacko people and criminals to get a chance to do what they want, at the cost of how much? What do they think this costs all of us? They can't complain when prices rise, taxes rise, because they are part of what's causing it. How come you don't see these crazy protests like this if a white guy is killed by police?
11
This is not unrest or a protest. It is a riot.
23
During the hippie era in the '60s & '70s young men with anti-war buttons. hippie-style clothes & long hair were constantly harassed by police in the cities. Cars were constantly pulled over, people were stopped & roughly frisked on the street, people were often taken to jail under the false claim that they "resembled" the description of a supposed suspect. In the jails, they were sometimes beaten before being let go uncharged. I was stopped so often, I kept my ID in my shirt pocket.
Multiply that by 10 and you get an idea of what an ordinary day can be like for young black men living in inner cities. There is an overt daily hostility between cops & citizens that keeps the pot of frustration and anger simmering.
Racially profiled policing has always been the rule. An African-American programming associate of mine who had multiple graduate degrees and worked for a major bank on Wall Street bought himself a BMW 328. Over the next 30 workdays, driving to NYC on the Jersey Turnpike, he was pulled over 31 times by police who assumed any Black guy driving an expensive car must be a drug dealer. He traded the BMW for a Toyota.
Take that simmering fear & rage & add in an increasing number of, at best, questionable shootings of Black men by police who rarely are arrested & punished (Black people who shoot a cop end up dead or in jail. Cops who shoot a black man rarely suffer consequences), & you've lit a fuse to that simmering cauldron of mutual hostility. Justice denied is toxic.
Multiply that by 10 and you get an idea of what an ordinary day can be like for young black men living in inner cities. There is an overt daily hostility between cops & citizens that keeps the pot of frustration and anger simmering.
Racially profiled policing has always been the rule. An African-American programming associate of mine who had multiple graduate degrees and worked for a major bank on Wall Street bought himself a BMW 328. Over the next 30 workdays, driving to NYC on the Jersey Turnpike, he was pulled over 31 times by police who assumed any Black guy driving an expensive car must be a drug dealer. He traded the BMW for a Toyota.
Take that simmering fear & rage & add in an increasing number of, at best, questionable shootings of Black men by police who rarely are arrested & punished (Black people who shoot a cop end up dead or in jail. Cops who shoot a black man rarely suffer consequences), & you've lit a fuse to that simmering cauldron of mutual hostility. Justice denied is toxic.
5
When the video shows that the perpetrator was waving a hand gun that he kept in an ankle holster, what will all the rioters and loudmouth race baiting demonstrators do then? will they apologize to the police and make restitution for all of the damage and looting? What do you think?
19
I think most Americans can and do agree that their is a problem with policing and over aggressiveness with firearms with regard to the black community. But it is not a single problem, and it can't be solved overnight no matter how desirable that might be. Police need to be better vetted, better trained, better managed, and better paid. There needs to be more black policeman, and policing needs to be carried out with more involvement with the community. Whether fair or not the problem will not be solved until/unless the black community also plays a more positive roll - they have to become more willing to be involved themselves with policing. I can't tell you how that happens but there can be no solution without that involvement. And finally, rioting looting, and violence are counterproductive to the cause. Argue that it is justified all you want, but being justified and serving to help solve a problem are not the same thing. It simply turns people off who might otherwise be allies.
2
Rage is not an excuse for looting and violence. Please don't insult our intelligence.
Demanding justice implies following the law. You cannot on one hand demand that the law be followed and then display complete disregard for it on the other and expect to be taken seriously. That's the funny thing about the law. You cannot cherry pick.
Demanding justice implies following the law. You cannot on one hand demand that the law be followed and then display complete disregard for it on the other and expect to be taken seriously. That's the funny thing about the law. You cannot cherry pick.
20
Whatever your personal view of this entire struggle is, it's difficult not to conclude that these are tragic situations that are a by-product of this country's love affair with firearms. If military grade weapons were not so easy to procure in these United States, you wouldn't have a police force with itchy trigger fingers. Obviously there is an insidious racial component to this, however, at the base level, this really is the culmination of too many guns on our streets. Including those carried by law enforcement.
3
You have to get over the false premise that military grade firearms are available to the general public. They aren't. You apparently have no idea how deadly military weapons really are.
Just think that, 6 weeks ahead of the election, these demonstrations, however justified, are Donald Trump's dream for this battleground state.
2
Our cops serve every day, in a society awash in guns where people kill for anything from a 'dis', sneaker envy, status, turf control, gang initiation to even a lyric from a rap album, and we wonder why they're so self defense conscious. Stupidity and guns remains our most lethal mix.
5
The lambs hate the sheep dogs because they remind them of the wolves, until the lambs need the sheep dogs to chase away the wolves.
7
The looting will result in more gun sales, and the move of the electorate toward Trump.
8
I've been a loyal NTY subscriber for decades, but have grudgingly adopted a protocol of consulting Breitbart, the Washington Times, etc. to try to triangulate on what aspects a given story the NYT is suppressing. For instance, that the police officer in question is black, the extent of injuries suffered by police officers when they are attacked by mobs, etc. Even the Guardian manages to apply more objectivity.
13
Breitbart? Objectivity? Why not try Alex Jones.
3
Breitbart and the Washington Times make up conspiracy theories stories all the time. I would not trust a word they write.
By the way, Trump hired Brannon, the head of Breitbart, as the CEO of his campaign. Bannon is a mouthpiece for the alt-right and white supremacists.
By the way, Trump hired Brannon, the head of Breitbart, as the CEO of his campaign. Bannon is a mouthpiece for the alt-right and white supremacists.
3
Often the crowd’s anger is being stoked by manipulative reporting by the media--prominently the NY Times--in using selective emphasis to have a story fit with the media's activist agenda.
Often people do not get beyond headlines in fixing their anger. NY Times: "Protests Erupt in Charlotte After Police Kill a Black Man" .... "The shooting was the latest in a long string of deaths of black people at the hands of Police"
A more objective summary of the situation--one without a sympathetic bias--would be: "Rioting in Charlotte after Black Officer Kills a Black Man."
Yesterday, the NY Times chose as one of its meritorious Picks among readers’ comments, a reader’s fulmination that the “police are an occupying army in America.” The feckless explanation by the Times: We are just reporting the range of popular sentiments without endorsing any particular view.
In its subtle cheerleading of unrest, the NY Times is part of the story rather than just reporting the story.
Often people do not get beyond headlines in fixing their anger. NY Times: "Protests Erupt in Charlotte After Police Kill a Black Man" .... "The shooting was the latest in a long string of deaths of black people at the hands of Police"
A more objective summary of the situation--one without a sympathetic bias--would be: "Rioting in Charlotte after Black Officer Kills a Black Man."
Yesterday, the NY Times chose as one of its meritorious Picks among readers’ comments, a reader’s fulmination that the “police are an occupying army in America.” The feckless explanation by the Times: We are just reporting the range of popular sentiments without endorsing any particular view.
In its subtle cheerleading of unrest, the NY Times is part of the story rather than just reporting the story.
4
How many more videos? How many more lives? How many more mothers must lose their children? To paraphrase Fannie Lou Hamar, "I am sick and tired of being sick and tired." We must demand a Federal investigation into anyone who shoots an unarmed civilian with his/her hands up. We must insist on the community policing model. How many more men, women and children, unarmed, with their hands up must die before we say " Enough is enough!" Enough! We need jobs and education, not more policing and stop and frisk!
5
Who had their hands up? Michael Brown didn't, nor did the deceased in North Carolina. The victim in Tulsa did but he was failing to stop as the police instructed before then reaching into his vehicle. Enough with the uninformed "they had their hands up" cries.
7
He was NOT unarmed! How about these "mama's" start raising decent children? So far, there hasn't been one innocent victim in these cases except the officers and tax-paying citizens. Where's the uproar for the poor gal in the semi who was just trying to work and drive through the city and ends up with her cargo looted and burned leaving her in fear for her life? Where's the protest and concern for these innocents in all this madness? Guess it's ok if a few lives are taken or destroyed for these "protesters", right?
1
I especially like the photgraphs included with this article that show young blacks getting "in the face" of the police in a very threatening manner. Stupidity and threatening behavior at its best.
10
Well at any rate, I'm glad all this senseless mayhem in Charlotte has taken media attention off the bomb that went off a few blocks from me. Dwelling on that was really causing me to lose sleep, and having the news focus switch to dumb Americans killing each other is a lot more relaxing somehow.
2
Has the NCAA given a statement yet?
3
Reading through some of the comments, I think the point is being missed.
We can debate gun control and race relations 'till the cows come home...as a nation, it seems like we have.
The point at hand is the right of protest (which is unquestioned) vs. the need for public safety. Time after time, protests against police shootings devolve into violence, vandalism and rioting. Somehow, a protest against violence becomes violence.
How does looting an NBA store protest police shooting innocent civilians? How does smashing hotel windows promote racial justice? How does shooting innocent bystanders express outrage at unjustified killings?
Until the community is able to harness their anger and channel their rage, their voices cannot be truly and fully heard. The only outcome is that the focus (of the police, news media and public) is ultimately diverted away from the core injustice of police shootings...and the story becomes about riots and lootings.
We can debate gun control and race relations 'till the cows come home...as a nation, it seems like we have.
The point at hand is the right of protest (which is unquestioned) vs. the need for public safety. Time after time, protests against police shootings devolve into violence, vandalism and rioting. Somehow, a protest against violence becomes violence.
How does looting an NBA store protest police shooting innocent civilians? How does smashing hotel windows promote racial justice? How does shooting innocent bystanders express outrage at unjustified killings?
Until the community is able to harness their anger and channel their rage, their voices cannot be truly and fully heard. The only outcome is that the focus (of the police, news media and public) is ultimately diverted away from the core injustice of police shootings...and the story becomes about riots and lootings.
7
First the city said the man was dead then his wasn't...they state it was "civilian on civilian" when every witness saw a police officer shoot him after throwing a bottle or something at the officer...I just witness how false and untruthful people under authority can be and it is sickening... God Bless this world....Jesus please seek the hearts of the ones who are not like your... for they know not what they say or do
2
The city quickly corrected itself, Sharelle. If they were lying as you say, why did they correct themselves when no one else knew what was going on? In riots like war, correct information is not always readily available.
3
Why wasn't the dashcam video immediately released to the public?
Transparency and accountability is the only way to calm down the people who are protesting.
As long as that video is not made available you can't blame people for suspecting a coverup is about to take place.
Transparency and accountability is the only way to calm down the people who are protesting.
As long as that video is not made available you can't blame people for suspecting a coverup is about to take place.
3
Because it is a key piece of evidence in an ongoing investigation....because it may be a key piece of evidence in a future trial, and its dissemination could bias potential jurors, etc. Legally, the public has no rights to the video.
1
Most of these rioters don't even realize that many more white people are killed by police than blacks???
12
Amen to that. Please see the documentary PEACE OFFICERS for one.
3
And to answer your question, the rioters dont realize that white people get shot as well because the media never reports it. On CBS news the other morning when this story was first reported, the anchor said/read that a black man was killed by an officer and then immediately repeated the story of the other black man that was killed by a WHITE officer. No mention of the officers race was given probably because the officer was black and there is no stirring news there.
1
Another black man lies in the street of a gunshot wound, but we won't see blacks rioting because HIS black life doesn't matter. Only those black lives taken by police matter.
How did we get to this point?
How did we get to this point?
8
As an unrelated observer, it seems like the police make sure the victim is dead. 16 shots in Chicago, 42 with Diallo in NYC. Most other victims have died from multiple gunshot wounds.
Perhaps this is to minimize insurance costs?
Perhaps this is to minimize insurance costs?
1
Trained to shoot until threat is removed.
3
Perhaps I missed the latest reports, but I still don't know what happened during the initial incident, why it happened, and why there was (is?) even a book/gun issue. On the other hand, many here seem to have it all worked out, replete with interpretations of "open carry", gun-planting conspiracies, and other seeming speculations. Are there at least some undisputed facts in all of this?
3
There was no gun being "waved around".
If the authorities don't properly frame this argument about blacks and whites and cops then when there are racial "martyrs" without a change in dialogue you're going to have a different kind of war. Religious wars, ethnic wars or racial wars...they all have "martyrs". If the authorities in government allow this kind of spin to take on a life of it's own we are in serious trouble in turning the ship. This kind of revolt will be different than the 60's. The other side this time has high technology to corral and keep in place the masses. What we're seeing now is an example of how that sort of conflict and control will play out with flash grenades, tear gas, armored personnel carriers, helicopters tracking mass cell phone communications, etc..
If the authorities don't properly frame this argument about blacks and whites and cops then when there are racial "martyrs" without a change in dialogue you're going to have a different kind of war. Religious wars, ethnic wars or racial wars...they all have "martyrs". If the authorities in government allow this kind of spin to take on a life of it's own we are in serious trouble in turning the ship. This kind of revolt will be different than the 60's. The other side this time has high technology to corral and keep in place the masses. What we're seeing now is an example of how that sort of conflict and control will play out with flash grenades, tear gas, armored personnel carriers, helicopters tracking mass cell phone communications, etc..
1
This rioting only leads to more of the same. Law abiding citizens of all stripes and colors will keep their distance from areas of the cities where such people live and society will get more and more stratified and alienated and the racial gap will become (has already) a chasm. There can be no understanding when myths instead of reality and facts are touted as truth. This publication is just as guilty of spreading myths and "the racial" meme. Write a front page story about all of the people (mostly white) who have been killed as a result of police intervention. It's a wonder that people still want to do police work; you couldn't pay me enough!
11
There is nothing to protest. Any person who brandishes a gun and refuses to put it down when the police direct them to should be shot. We live in dangerous times. I want the police to shoot people who don't comply.
13
Have no white guys been shot in the entire United States by the police in the last 2 years? If you follow the media you would believe the number is "zero"! I expect that could not be the case. Why are we only reporting the shooting of black men which, is of course a huge problem that goes way beyond the issue of the police. It cuts into the issue of how badly we have abandoned those men.
7
Coward Cops should be removed first who just after seeing another person with or without a gun starts shooting
When someone points a gun at cops, and the cops shoot them, that's not cowardice; cowardice would be running away or doing whatever the guy with the gun commanded. When cops shoot someone with a gun, they're doing the smart thing and the right thing.
North Carolina has lost its way -- in, oh, sooooo many ways.
Thanks, Republican gov and state senate.
Thank you, gerrymandering.
Thanks, Republican gov and state senate.
Thank you, gerrymandering.
2
OK then would you say the same thing for Maryland? Baltimore has a black major, black police chief, officers that are black. The state is Democratic and upper levels of government are held by Democrats. So who is to blame there?
5
Thank you Democrat mayor and city council of Charlotte.
2
Here is another part of the story that will never be covered by the NYT and lord knows this comment will be censored by the moderators, despite being on-topic and civil.
Here is video of a single white man being beaten by a mob of so-called demonstrators while he is begging for mercy
https://twitter.com/LibertarianQn/status/778845840496594944
It is the truth, but the NYT will never report it and the moderators will censor this post. Cant let facts get in the way of the narrative.
Here is video of a single white man being beaten by a mob of so-called demonstrators while he is begging for mercy
https://twitter.com/LibertarianQn/status/778845840496594944
It is the truth, but the NYT will never report it and the moderators will censor this post. Cant let facts get in the way of the narrative.
15
Congrats - you made it past the censors. Half of my comments never see the light of day because, despite being civil, they do not pass the "Politically Correct" litmus test of the censors. But then it also depends on which censors gets your post. It's nice to play God.
6
Obama's legacy, a guy demanding the black vote for Clinton. Its hard to take in.
9
Do you propose a President Trump as a better idea?
This is complete nonsense. Just like the Michael Brown farce, this new incident in NC has been reported poorly. If true, sounds like the person who was shot had a gun a refused to comply with cops. He didn't listen and was shot. His race doesn't seem to be the primary cause although the race hustlers will tell you otherwise.
16
This is a culmination of WAR started by the Reagans. It's all about the mentality of Cocaine Cowboys, Walter White's Brother in-law, and a host of other ways you can try, but usually not get across, to tell everyone normal people do drugs. They are not villains, they just need to get high, just as Darren Stevens, "Bewitched," did by ordering his double after a long (8hr) day at the Corporate office. Wink wink, we all know you think it's OK to down a double or pop a Xanax, but not take a hit of pot. Let me remind you, if you make it illegal to sell or use the drug alcohol we will be shooting those who use, sell, manufacture it. We had our war against that in the 30's......and came to our senses to abolish the idiotic "War on Alcohol." We should stop this lunacy and leave it to the likes of third world countries like the Phllipines. Let them go around shooting people for drug offenses. We should legalize everything and let the unfortunate people who decide to become abusive suffer the consequences. Eventually we will see the uneducated and damaged people die off. That is the best drug awareness program you can have. Our children are not stupid and they will not become heroine addicts as some suggest. Driving still the most dangerous thing we do in America.
Remember PCP? People jumping off of buildings in the 70's? Where is that now? I never here of PCP anymore until now. Less than 1% of seniors in HS use it. Maybe it was a throw-down drug?
Remember PCP? People jumping off of buildings in the 70's? Where is that now? I never here of PCP anymore until now. Less than 1% of seniors in HS use it. Maybe it was a throw-down drug?
1
699 people have been killed by police in 2016.
Of those, only 173 were black. 698 people is 0.0002 percent of the US population. Almost twice that many whites have been killed by police this year. The people intent on ripping down our society by rioting at the drop of a hat need to get a grip on reality.
You don't want to be shot by cops? Here are two tips for you:
1. Don't attract police attention by acting dangerous and suspicious. Dangerous, suspicious behavior includes waving Glock look-a-likes around and pointing them at cops, parking your SUV in the middle of a road and wandering around high on PCP and ignoring police orders to put down a weapon, shouting that you have a weapon as a police officer approaches your car and then ignoring orders to keep your hands visible, etc.
2. Don't ignore police orders and try to argue your case on the side of a freeway, especially when police are on edge and cop killings are on the rise. Arguing your case is what courts are for.
Of those, only 173 were black. 698 people is 0.0002 percent of the US population. Almost twice that many whites have been killed by police this year. The people intent on ripping down our society by rioting at the drop of a hat need to get a grip on reality.
You don't want to be shot by cops? Here are two tips for you:
1. Don't attract police attention by acting dangerous and suspicious. Dangerous, suspicious behavior includes waving Glock look-a-likes around and pointing them at cops, parking your SUV in the middle of a road and wandering around high on PCP and ignoring police orders to put down a weapon, shouting that you have a weapon as a police officer approaches your car and then ignoring orders to keep your hands visible, etc.
2. Don't ignore police orders and try to argue your case on the side of a freeway, especially when police are on edge and cop killings are on the rise. Arguing your case is what courts are for.
25
Rioting and looting, and senseless civilian on civilian crime serve no purpose than to have the blacks lose any sympathy that may have been generated following the shooting and killing of two black men in Tulsa and in Charlotte.
America is already great. NOT.
America is already great. NOT.
7
See, here is what I don't get. If you are a criminal, an armed or unarmed black person these days, you want to go about your criminal ways without getting caught. And if you do get caught, you don't want to get killed. Only insane people, martyrs, or incompetents get themselves killed.
If you are the proper criminal animal deplorable element you want to be left alone to go about your crime spree winning ways like the real professionals do -- our entrenched professional politicians, the Hillary and Bill Clintons, the professional crime syndicates, like Citizens United.
This stuff that is happening in cities all over the United States. I just don't get it.
If you are the proper criminal animal deplorable element you want to be left alone to go about your crime spree winning ways like the real professionals do -- our entrenched professional politicians, the Hillary and Bill Clintons, the professional crime syndicates, like Citizens United.
This stuff that is happening in cities all over the United States. I just don't get it.
3
We are a gun loving country. See how well that has paid off.
7
Orderly society can not survive this kind of criminal and destructive behavior. The people who spread misinformation and outright lies for their ulterior `motives, and that includes family of the criminals, must be dealth with harshly by the courts. Fostering riots is a criminal act.
And that goes for the mainstream media also. You can't present propaganda and opinions as hard news. You can't lob baseless accusations against the police and foster riots, loss of life and destruction to property of innocent shopkeepers and people who have done nothing because you want to push your agenda.
Freedom and civil rights are not laissez-faire violence and rioting. These miscreants need to be taught that they will be punished for criminal behavior and that if they get stopped by law enforcement they have duty to act civilized and follow orders of the officer.
If you have grievance record it on video and go to court or the numerous civil rights organizations that will take your case if you have a case and get it addressed in courts. If you just decide to ignore the officer and ignore his/hers orders you will be automatically assessed as hostile and you just elevated the situation and made it a lot more dangerous to you. And yes, sometimes lethal.
Why is this so hard to understand?
And that goes for the mainstream media also. You can't present propaganda and opinions as hard news. You can't lob baseless accusations against the police and foster riots, loss of life and destruction to property of innocent shopkeepers and people who have done nothing because you want to push your agenda.
Freedom and civil rights are not laissez-faire violence and rioting. These miscreants need to be taught that they will be punished for criminal behavior and that if they get stopped by law enforcement they have duty to act civilized and follow orders of the officer.
If you have grievance record it on video and go to court or the numerous civil rights organizations that will take your case if you have a case and get it addressed in courts. If you just decide to ignore the officer and ignore his/hers orders you will be automatically assessed as hostile and you just elevated the situation and made it a lot more dangerous to you. And yes, sometimes lethal.
Why is this so hard to understand?
15
Who were the "officials" who claimed the civilian was shot by another civilian; was it the same people who routinely lie about police encounters?
1
NYTimes does not call this “riots” or “rioting” but “unrest”, “chaos” and “violence” in this story (as of 10:50 PM Weds.).
The only time the word riot is used is to describe what the police are wearing, “riot gear.”
That is what you wear when you gear up for a riot. Call this what it is: Rioting.
The only time the word riot is used is to describe what the police are wearing, “riot gear.”
That is what you wear when you gear up for a riot. Call this what it is: Rioting.
21
This was a riot. not a demonstration.
The Times is happy to "call it like it is" and call Trump a "liar". Why can't they "call it what it is" and say that this mob violence including looting, shooting, and burning a "riot".
Instead this article clearly is trying to keep the focus on police and not on the RIOTERS.
The Times is happy to "call it like it is" and call Trump a "liar". Why can't they "call it what it is" and say that this mob violence including looting, shooting, and burning a "riot".
Instead this article clearly is trying to keep the focus on police and not on the RIOTERS.
20
RE John Barnett, a civil rights activist in Charlotte, said during a raucous news conference near the site of the shooting that Mr. Scott had been waiting for his son to arrive home from school.
“The truth of the matter is, he didn’t point that gun,” Mr. Barnett said. “Did he intend to really sit in a vehicle, waiting on his son to get home from school and then plot to shoot a cop if they pulled up on him?”
Another commented posted that Scott had a criminal record in three states. If true exactly the kind of person especially if there's an outstanding warrant shoots cop.
“The truth of the matter is, he didn’t point that gun,” Mr. Barnett said. “Did he intend to really sit in a vehicle, waiting on his son to get home from school and then plot to shoot a cop if they pulled up on him?”
Another commented posted that Scott had a criminal record in three states. If true exactly the kind of person especially if there's an outstanding warrant shoots cop.
8
Just the fact that the fraternal order of police would support Trump illuminates the sorry state of law enforcement in this country.
8
The only absurd answer to police "murder" is disarm the cops. No more guns, mace, tasers, billy clubs, stun guns, water cannons, smoke bombs, tear gas, etc. Let "freedom" rein. Use Obama's approach with the Russians...negotiate and reason!
1
I'm a white male. My two children are teenagers. Their mother and I have told them many times to show nothing but fearful respect for police officers. Do exactly as they say.
Once while driving with my daughter I was talking to her about "not letting anyone take your happiness". Typical father/daughter talk probably having something to do with a boy. Just as she was really listening as measured by her looking at me instead of her phone a traffic cop stepped into 45MPH traffic and motioned for us to stop. I slammed on the brakes but the two people in the lane next to me went into an uncontrollable skid and just avoided an accident.
With racing heart my instincts took over. I rolled down my window and said "that was really dangerous". As soon as the words were spoken the officer placed his hand on his service revolver and started yelling at me. I meekly said sorry and drove away. The incident reinforced something I already knew and forgot in the moment. It's not in the officers playbook or training manual to back down to a civilian. If it is most officers forget about it in the heat of the moment. Like Mike Tyson said "everybody has a plan until they get punched in the nose".
My daughter looked at me as I drove away mumbling under my breath. Dad, she said, "don't let anyone take your happiness". It was a funny moment that broke the tension but the lesson was clear. Regardless of your color don't rock the boat with the cops. They have an impossible job.
Once while driving with my daughter I was talking to her about "not letting anyone take your happiness". Typical father/daughter talk probably having something to do with a boy. Just as she was really listening as measured by her looking at me instead of her phone a traffic cop stepped into 45MPH traffic and motioned for us to stop. I slammed on the brakes but the two people in the lane next to me went into an uncontrollable skid and just avoided an accident.
With racing heart my instincts took over. I rolled down my window and said "that was really dangerous". As soon as the words were spoken the officer placed his hand on his service revolver and started yelling at me. I meekly said sorry and drove away. The incident reinforced something I already knew and forgot in the moment. It's not in the officers playbook or training manual to back down to a civilian. If it is most officers forget about it in the heat of the moment. Like Mike Tyson said "everybody has a plan until they get punched in the nose".
My daughter looked at me as I drove away mumbling under my breath. Dad, she said, "don't let anyone take your happiness". It was a funny moment that broke the tension but the lesson was clear. Regardless of your color don't rock the boat with the cops. They have an impossible job.
19
You don't think its problematic that a police officer put his hand on his gun because you spoke to him?
I do. I don't want to live in an authoritarian state where the police are empowered to shoot citizens and ask questions later. I'm surprised that all of the second amendment, tenth amendment loving anti-government federalists aren't on board with this concept.... Oh wait. I'm not surprised.
"It's not in the officers playbook or training manual to back down to a civilian. If it is most officers forget about it in the heat of the moment."
Back down? You think that pulling a weapon on a yelling person constitutes nothing more than "not backing down?" I call that escalation. If police officers "forget" about how to handle confrontation in the heat of the moment, they should. not. be. police. officers.
I do. I don't want to live in an authoritarian state where the police are empowered to shoot citizens and ask questions later. I'm surprised that all of the second amendment, tenth amendment loving anti-government federalists aren't on board with this concept.... Oh wait. I'm not surprised.
"It's not in the officers playbook or training manual to back down to a civilian. If it is most officers forget about it in the heat of the moment."
Back down? You think that pulling a weapon on a yelling person constitutes nothing more than "not backing down?" I call that escalation. If police officers "forget" about how to handle confrontation in the heat of the moment, they should. not. be. police. officers.
2
By your reasoning: there goes the 1st Amendment.
1
We need to distinguish protest from rioting. With peaceful protesters, even if one disagrees, we must respect their first amendment rights. Rioters who throw garbage cans through windows and loot stores need to be arrested and sent to jail. Rioters in North Carolina couldn't pick a better way, a better place or a better time to help elect Don the con as President of the United States.
13
When a black man kneels at a football game he is equally vilified. When they simply state their lives matter, they are called divisive. The problem is we honestly have yet to accept people of color as living, breathing equal members of our society
The fact that he had a gun is irrelevant. He was not involved in any criminal activity and in fact was not the original focus of the police call. Like the man in Tulsa whose car had stalled and was not the original police call. Both men were targeted because of the color of their skin and now are dead. Is there any question that if they had been white that they would still be alive.
4
The fact that he had a gun is the relevant piece of information. When someone points a gun at police, they shoot him. That would have happened even if he'd been white, and white men get shot by the police all the time for that kind of thing.
4
dporter, more whites and Hispanics are killed by the police then blacks, but you won't hear that on the nightly news because that does not fit their narrative.
5
TULSA- I just don't understand why, when the police asked for him to step out of his vehicle, that gentleman had a gun in his hand. Especially, since the original call was for a broken down car.... Why would you have your gun in your hand and pose as a threat to law enforcement when it was a simple call for a lift or some help? And people don't expect the police to feel threatened?
I do agree, that in some cases, the shootings of blacks by law enforcement members were absolutely unnecessary and innocent lives were lost. I do not disagree with standing up for your rights and I support the BLM movement. Looting and destroying your own communities is something I do not agree with. Will that save someones life? NO. Peacefully protest for your rights. Peacefully protest to face the current issues and to look for a solution. Rioting causes people to turn and look the other way because they don't want to get involved with violent protests.
I cannot say that I understand the frustrations that the Black communities have been facing, but I am human and I want everyone to be equal just as much as you do.
I do agree, that in some cases, the shootings of blacks by law enforcement members were absolutely unnecessary and innocent lives were lost. I do not disagree with standing up for your rights and I support the BLM movement. Looting and destroying your own communities is something I do not agree with. Will that save someones life? NO. Peacefully protest for your rights. Peacefully protest to face the current issues and to look for a solution. Rioting causes people to turn and look the other way because they don't want to get involved with violent protests.
I cannot say that I understand the frustrations that the Black communities have been facing, but I am human and I want everyone to be equal just as much as you do.
The rush to protest before the investigation is complete isn't so much a protest as it is another opportunity to loot and riot. Does anyone seriously think the actions of those "protesters" would be any different if the video was immediately released and showed the man holding a gun? I seriously doubt it.
23
President Obama and Hillary Clinton are losing credibility daily by not leading with any clear or meaningful statements about what are clearly becoming race riots against police authority.
The lack of leadership voice from the left is becoming a yawning chasm that is damaging its credibility.
The lack of leadership voice from the left is becoming a yawning chasm that is damaging its credibility.
11
Wow, the moderators are really doing their censoring today. Guess they had enough of people not sharing their narrow views, so non-liberal comments are being thrown out and liberal comments are being quickly marked as NYT Picks to give them more visibility.
Typical NYT. Dishonest from top to bottom.
Typical NYT. Dishonest from top to bottom.
12
According to the Washington Post, between 1/1/2015 and 6/10/2016 (almost 1.5 years), "1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black (and 382 were of another or unknown race)." Blacks make up 13% of the population, so of that 1502 killings during the period, 195 killings would be proportional - meaning essentially police killed 186 more Blacks than they should have. It is a problem, to be sure. But realize that all of these problems, from the rioting to BLM are over 186 killings more than proportionally fair. Compare that number to the 9,000 black on black murders during the same time and you can see why there is a lack of concern from some whites. The reality is a black person is 23.3 time more likely to be shot by a black person than a cop (of any color).
7
You are citing the wrong statistic. The relevant statistic is the racial disparity in police shootings to the racial disparity in police encounters. The FBI Uniform Crime Report shows blacks make up more about 35 percent of those arrested for violent, including more than 50 percent of murders and robberies. Blacks make up a smaller percent of police shootings than they do of arrests.
1
Last night there was a debate on a news show between two black commentators. One took the side of wait-for-facts, the other a BLM supporter.
When the first stated his arguments, the BLM supporter called him a "self-hating black".
Typical Left reaction. Any minority who differs from the rigid Left narrative is automatically labeled "SELF HATING".
When the first stated his arguments, the BLM supporter called him a "self-hating black".
Typical Left reaction. Any minority who differs from the rigid Left narrative is automatically labeled "SELF HATING".
19
Where is the condemnation of the NRA in all this? They have been utterly enabling in this terrible situation ... and no one is calling them out, demanding that they answer for their obscene agenda.
6
Because they have nothing to do with it. What kind of logic tries to blame an organization that defends a legal, legitimate constitutional right and at the same time devotes extensive time, money and resources to teaching gun safety. The NRA has 90,000 gun safety instructors nationwide. Very few NRA members commit gun crimes.
1
This is random. The shooting was by a cop. What does the nra have to do with it.
The NRA encourages everyone to carry a gun. We need to protect ourselves. There are 2 million guns circulating in this country. So if someone is "carrying" and they have a gun in the car or on their hip - and they are African American - is that a problem? Apparently it is.
Gee, you think its the gun the guy had THAT THE COPS SAW?? Your headline is loaded with the usual NYT bias implying uncertainty and inciting violence. WHY WHY WHY???
6
Here is a guaranteed solution to this problem.......guaranteed.......Have President Obama speak the following from the Oval Office TONIGHT at 8 PM........he should speak it with PASSION........and have ALL the press back him up ON THE FRONT PAGE......."Citizens of America......everybody.....any and all ages.......EVERYBODY.......put your guns down........put your guns away......put them ALL away right now......in EVERY city........in EVERY home.........on EVERY street........PLEASE listen to me.......For the health and survival of our Nation........PLEASE do what I say........ALL Americans.......All living in America.......Of all colors and race....... PLEASE lay down your arms........P:LEASE listen to me........Churches, communities, businesses, mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, everybody........ tell everybody and EVERYONE you know to do this.......We must do this........do not carry any firearms anywhere, whatsoever.......Please do this.......Please"........and if EVERYBODY would obey this......so that the only persons on the streets with firearms at ANY time were ONLY the police........These shootings would basically be NO MORE within 24 hours........and the majority of crime in America would be done with.....forever.......guaranteed. Will this happen ??????? I wish it would. But sadly, I do not think it will.
2
What about the people who don't have a TV?
My heart is breaking for my city... for those so desperate and anger they turn to violence, and for those who have to face that anger in the line of duty. There are no easy answers here, we must find a way to face the problems that brought us to this point with the same sense of justice and peace that happened in the aftermath of the Randall Kerrick trial. Pray for us.
6
When guns are prevalent everywhere, and the police force has been militarized (as others have noted and thank you for that, Homeland Security), it is not surprising that a police officer's first reaction is the assumption that the "perp" has a gun and will use it. Plenty of blame to go around.
The only answer is gun control and that means tracking every weapon from the point of manufacture and make them less commonplace. The NRA claims guns make the world safer by leveling the playing field. Clearly not.
The only answer is gun control and that means tracking every weapon from the point of manufacture and make them less commonplace. The NRA claims guns make the world safer by leveling the playing field. Clearly not.
8
I'm glad the officers made it home safe. A man stepped out of his car holding a gun. Does it really matter where it was pointed?
18
"I'm glad the officers made it home safe. A man stepped out of his car holding a gun. Does it really matter where it was pointed?"
Yes. The standard for whether use of force is justified is whether the use of force is "objectively reasonable." The inquiry is fact specific and based on the totality of the circumstances.* So yes, it absolutely *does* matter where the gun was pointed, because that fact is relevant to the determination of the level of threat the officers objectively experienced. A gun pointed at the ground, or in a holster, or at a tin can does not present the same level of threat as a gun pointed at another person. If the man got out of the car with his gun and pointed at a tin can and said "I am about to shoot this can and then you," then that fact would suggest a greater objective threat.
If that statement was not true, then any person with a gun could be shot. But we know that's not true, right, because of the second amendment and open carry laws? Do you see now why you are wrong?
The more important question is, why do you accept a police force that can simply kill any person with a gun? Considering the inherent nature of a cop's job, your position means that our police force isn't a police force, but rather an squad of government mercenaries designed to conduct extrajudicial killings of individuals with guns. Problematic, no?
*The issue is that officers appear to be considering race in the 'totality of the circumstances.' Which is illegal.
Yes. The standard for whether use of force is justified is whether the use of force is "objectively reasonable." The inquiry is fact specific and based on the totality of the circumstances.* So yes, it absolutely *does* matter where the gun was pointed, because that fact is relevant to the determination of the level of threat the officers objectively experienced. A gun pointed at the ground, or in a holster, or at a tin can does not present the same level of threat as a gun pointed at another person. If the man got out of the car with his gun and pointed at a tin can and said "I am about to shoot this can and then you," then that fact would suggest a greater objective threat.
If that statement was not true, then any person with a gun could be shot. But we know that's not true, right, because of the second amendment and open carry laws? Do you see now why you are wrong?
The more important question is, why do you accept a police force that can simply kill any person with a gun? Considering the inherent nature of a cop's job, your position means that our police force isn't a police force, but rather an squad of government mercenaries designed to conduct extrajudicial killings of individuals with guns. Problematic, no?
*The issue is that officers appear to be considering race in the 'totality of the circumstances.' Which is illegal.
Attack my car and I would defend myself, too. Just sayin'.
2
An innocent black man is killed by police - protests and confrontation justified. An armed black man confronting police is killed - protests and confrontation not justified. When the black community and BLM understand this, they will be joined by other Americans in the quest to stop injustice. When a criminal gets killed by police and riots ensure, progress and race relations go out with the tide.
22
If anyone wants to know what is at the root of police misconduct in this country, just ponder how police refer to non-police as "civilians." The implication of course is that they themselves are not civilians. Sorry, police, but unless you are an active duty member of the US armed forces, YOU are civilians as well. There is no us, and there is no them. You are civilians like us. You are civil servants in the local government, just like school teachers and snow plow drivers, The sooner police realize they are part of the community, and not some holier-than-thou occupying force, the sooner these problems will end.
19
Jim - You are right! So now let's get rid of those archaic rules and regulations that prohibit police, the ones just like us, from striking, picketing and demonstrating when they are treated unfairly by those local, county and state governments. We should also get rid of those rules prohibiting their political activity and after work employment, after all they are just like us!
5
That some of these comments are frightening to some as predictions for the future is understandable. That it is not foreseeable that this will be our future is less understandable, given America's experiences with children born in poverty, drugs, crime, homeless families, domestic abuse, and the proliferation of weapons. Black Lives Matter's peaceful efforts to demonstrate have been co-opted by those who have no interest in peaceful efforts. The rioters (not demonstrators) on roller skates, smoking blunts and "liberating" local vendors in Charlotte crossed a line. The only ones who are willing and able to re-secure that line are the police. And they do it every day, in all sorts of neighborhoods and environments. The rest of us, to paraphrase Colonel Nathan Jessep, don't want to hear about it because we want somebody on that line, just not us.
6
Where is the president?
What would Bobby Kennedy have done?
What would Bobby Kennedy have done?
9
The violent looters would have shot him.
2
The president is running the country. The president has spoken out on this, and most every issue related incident. President Obama doesn't have a magic statement to make this stop. President Obama isn't the president of Black Lives Matter, he is the president of the United States. His job is to description doesn't involve managing the behavior of the citizens. Anyone who has listened to this President speak knows where he stands.
Where are the Christians who are supposed to teach LOVE? Where are educators to guide? Where are the community programs to promote trust between citizens and police? And above all, where are you and Where am I? These questions matter. Nobody takes responsibility because that might require actual work.
WE, the people, are the cause and solution of this issue. Somehow our goal seems to be to argue about opinions rather than work as a citizenry to accomplish better race relations, poverty reduction, gun control, children raising children, and so on.
Despite the claims of the republican nominee, no one man or woman can fix a four hundred year old problem. Unfortunately, this truth cant get many likes on facebook or twitter.
Where are the Christians who are supposed to teach LOVE? Where are educators to guide? Where are the community programs to promote trust between citizens and police? And above all, where are you and Where am I? These questions matter. Nobody takes responsibility because that might require actual work.
WE, the people, are the cause and solution of this issue. Somehow our goal seems to be to argue about opinions rather than work as a citizenry to accomplish better race relations, poverty reduction, gun control, children raising children, and so on.
Despite the claims of the republican nominee, no one man or woman can fix a four hundred year old problem. Unfortunately, this truth cant get many likes on facebook or twitter.
3
Charlotte is a hotbed of KKK. Where are your investigative reporters?
5
Citation needed!
1
It's pretty certain that the black officer who shot Mr. Scott, and the black guy who shot another black guy at the riot, are not members of the KKK.
3
The Governor of North Carolina, McCrory was endorsed by the NRA today for his re-election. I wonder why.
5
Don't let investigation or facts get in the way of a good riot in Charlotte. The looters could care less wether or not there was a justified shooting.
It is remarkable how thousands have been shot in Chicago communities alone, yet residents there are not fed up, nor interested in protesting the breakdown of their community.... The crime, the drugs... The normalization of single parents on social assistance... Nothing but absolute silent consent.
It is remarkable how thousands have been shot in Chicago communities alone, yet residents there are not fed up, nor interested in protesting the breakdown of their community.... The crime, the drugs... The normalization of single parents on social assistance... Nothing but absolute silent consent.
29
Comments like these are getting so old and pointless...I watch forensic file and all different crime show all day which show nothing but "white on white" violence I mean it is sickening. Yet I never here any screaming and talking about all the white on white violence. Violence is violence and there are going to be violent people in the world no matter what race they are... but then there are people with badges that we pay to protect people from violence and not create it. When these people are selectively doing what we ALL pay them to do...that is a reason to speak out about it.
The CNN reporters are noting that there are 100-200 "protestors" or "rioters" looting businesses, using profanity on TV, causing problems. Why aren't the police arresting them? Disturbance of the peace? This type of activity is getting us nowhere.
19
Dear Charlotte Police and Deputies,
Hold your ground, do not roll over. Help is coming on election day.
AMoB
Hold your ground, do not roll over. Help is coming on election day.
AMoB
14
"NRA members instinctively understand Robert Heinlein's assertion that 'an armed society is a polite society."
The sales pitch for a best selling t-shirt at the official NRA store.
http://www.nrastore.com/nra-coexist-t-shirt
The sales pitch for a best selling t-shirt at the official NRA store.
http://www.nrastore.com/nra-coexist-t-shirt
1
Does anyone else find it disconcerting that the NYC bomber catches one in the leg and arm after creating mayhem and firing on a police officer (luckily with a vest), and black men and boys are gunned down indiscriminately and left to bleed out on the streets. There is something terribly wrong with this picture.
10
You watch too much TV. The NYC bomber is lucky (or not lucky) that he's not dead - look at the guy in Minnesota. Meanwhile, the cops wound plenty of people.
As far as "indiscriminately" goes...most of the people who got shot were stopped by police who identified themselves as police and who fired on someone who was carrying a weapon or thought to be carrying a weapon. Now, the cops may well have been dead wrong or even criminal in what they did - but don't overstate it.
As far as "indiscriminately" goes...most of the people who got shot were stopped by police who identified themselves as police and who fired on someone who was carrying a weapon or thought to be carrying a weapon. Now, the cops may well have been dead wrong or even criminal in what they did - but don't overstate it.
3
Try aiming a gun at a non-vital body part when you have maybe a second to react to save your life from the man who ha a gun pointed at you. Try it. See how your accuracy is. Life is not a video game.
4
Gun violence of every kind will continue as long as we as a country are awash in guns and the NRA rules our politicians.
Police are afraid since there are so many guns- especially in all these open carry states- but really, everywhere. They assume everyone has a gun and it makes them trigger happy- especially towards African- Americans. This is racist- yes. But there are instances where whites have also been shot- but not nearly as prevalent.
Then there is gun violence in inner cities - most notably in Chicago- but really in all cities small and large.
Then we have the headline making mass shootings in malls, movie theaters, schools, etc. We have vets committing suicide on a daily basis. We have domestic violence by guns every day.
We are losing literally thousands of people due to gun violence. The common denominator is the easy access to guns.
We need to address easy access to guns in this country. No other first world country has this level of gun violence. Their people are not better people- they just don't have so many guns within their society as we do.
More guns statistically increases the chances of gun violence. Do the math.
Police are afraid since there are so many guns- especially in all these open carry states- but really, everywhere. They assume everyone has a gun and it makes them trigger happy- especially towards African- Americans. This is racist- yes. But there are instances where whites have also been shot- but not nearly as prevalent.
Then there is gun violence in inner cities - most notably in Chicago- but really in all cities small and large.
Then we have the headline making mass shootings in malls, movie theaters, schools, etc. We have vets committing suicide on a daily basis. We have domestic violence by guns every day.
We are losing literally thousands of people due to gun violence. The common denominator is the easy access to guns.
We need to address easy access to guns in this country. No other first world country has this level of gun violence. Their people are not better people- they just don't have so many guns within their society as we do.
More guns statistically increases the chances of gun violence. Do the math.
7
The police are getting away with it. Why can't there be consequences when a cop shoots an unarmed person? They always get away with it.
4
The guy in Charlotte was armed!! Many more white people are shot by police...some of them are unarmed too.
There is always an exception and innocent people do get shot, but by and large people are causing their own problems.
When a ten time arrested, white trash meth dealer gets shot and killed by police...white people are glad he is gone. That's the difference.
There is always an exception and innocent people do get shot, but by and large people are causing their own problems.
When a ten time arrested, white trash meth dealer gets shot and killed by police...white people are glad he is gone. That's the difference.
3
I am sick and tired of the media blaming police for these shootings. They fan the flames and hope to get record ratings. When a person is stopped by police for anything, they are supposed to follow the orders of law enforcement. How difficult is that ??? Deadly consequences can occur. Then, riots may ensue. Perhaps America should follow the lead of Charleston SC, where in 2015, a white cop killed a black man by shooting him in the back. Months later, 9 innocent blacks were murdered in their own church by a white supremacist. Charlestonians did not loot, riot and kill. Instead, local leaders, both black and white, called for calmness and that is what happened. The community came together and grieved as one.
15
But the shootings continue . . .
A gun, not a book. A convicted felon with a lengthy criminal record. Do facts still matter? http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/09/slain-charlotte-man-had-le...
25
paul jackson - "Do facts still matter?"
No, only the agenda!
No, only the agenda!
1
When will we learn as a country that open carry gun laws cause innocent people to die? If he hadn't been carrying a weapon, he would be alive now. This debunks the NRA's assertion that carrying a gun is needed for self defense.
13
They would argue that it was the cops' carrying of guns that worked, as they were able to defend themselves against this guy with a gun.... oooopppsss, sorry, this "bad guy" with a gun.
2
Liberal opinion with limited relevence to this story?
NYT Pick of course. Keep stacking that deck, moderators. Most important is that views that comport with your own are given top visibility.
NYT Pick of course. Keep stacking that deck, moderators. Most important is that views that comport with your own are given top visibility.
9
Was he carrying a legal weapon?
2
To quote the great wise one Chapelle police and black relations can be summarized by his skit "Somebody broke into my house once but I didn't want to call em, Uhhh uhhh. House was too nice! And in a real nice house they'd never believe I lived in it... "He's still here! Thump! Ohhh my god! Open and shut case Johnson! I saw this once before when I was a rookie. Apparently this n**** broke in and hung pictures of his family everywhere. Well... lets sprinkle some crack on him and get out' a here."
"Let's sprinkle some crack ...."
"Let's sprinkle some crack ...."
3
It is the entire judicial system that is the problem. Our drug laws are in large part responsible. We voted for people for years that promised "law and order" or to get "tough on crime". Promoting, through elections, these authoritarian ideals we have created this mess. The police are simply tools doing what politicians have been telling them to do for years.
We expected this would affect someone else, someone of a different culture... and it did. It affected people who were part of a less politically powerful culture. We threw out compassion and the possibility of a better society.
We can change this by voting. Vote for kindness over hate.
We expected this would affect someone else, someone of a different culture... and it did. It affected people who were part of a less politically powerful culture. We threw out compassion and the possibility of a better society.
We can change this by voting. Vote for kindness over hate.
4
These rioters should all be jailed.
17
Yes, we must build more jails!
1
I suppose we could build Trump's wall all the way around the country, stop letting anyone out, and just call the nation itself a jail.
If you can pick out the dozen or two rioters and agitators from the hundreds or thousands of peaceful demonstrators exercising their First Amendment rights, I'll agree with you. But, if you attempt to conflate all of the demonstrators as "rioters" then you are just being bigoted.
A friend of mine, a retired Police Captain from Philadelphia, explained that the way they used to break up peaceful demonstrations was to infiltrate cops dressed like the demonstrators into the crowds to agitate. They would throw rocks and bottles toward police lines, break windows, even confront the uniformed cops. Add in a handful of angry demonstrators who would join in and the police would take aggressive action against everybody - the ringers quietly disappearing.
Some people think that the only Constitutional right that should be honored is the subordinate clause at the end of the Second Amendment - ignoring the primary qualifying clause. Kind of half an Amendment. Everything else they treat as meaningless words on a page.
If a Congressperson submitted the Bill of Rights to today's Congress, both the Congress and the people would denounce him as a Communist. Twenty years ago, a graduate Political Science class in Florida actually took a copy of the first ten amendments around the streets and questioned people at random about them. Few recognized them for what they were, & over 70% thought they were Socialist.
BTW, my favorite two words from the Second Amendment are "well regulated."
A friend of mine, a retired Police Captain from Philadelphia, explained that the way they used to break up peaceful demonstrations was to infiltrate cops dressed like the demonstrators into the crowds to agitate. They would throw rocks and bottles toward police lines, break windows, even confront the uniformed cops. Add in a handful of angry demonstrators who would join in and the police would take aggressive action against everybody - the ringers quietly disappearing.
Some people think that the only Constitutional right that should be honored is the subordinate clause at the end of the Second Amendment - ignoring the primary qualifying clause. Kind of half an Amendment. Everything else they treat as meaningless words on a page.
If a Congressperson submitted the Bill of Rights to today's Congress, both the Congress and the people would denounce him as a Communist. Twenty years ago, a graduate Political Science class in Florida actually took a copy of the first ten amendments around the streets and questioned people at random about them. Few recognized them for what they were, & over 70% thought they were Socialist.
BTW, my favorite two words from the Second Amendment are "well regulated."
1
The Washington Post database of fatal police shootings shows that police so far this year have shot and killed 706 people, including 173 blacks. Blacks make up 13 percent of the population, but 24.5 percent of those shot dead by police. The Black Lives Matter movement uses this statistic to proclaim that police target blacks, but this is not the relevant statistic. The relevant statistic compares racial disparities in police shootings to the racial disparities in police encounters. Blacks make 24.6 percent of those shot and killed by police but 37 percent of those arrested for violent crimes, including more than 50 percent of murder and robberies, according to the FBI Uniform Crime Report. Last month the New York Times published a front-page article about a new study (“An Empirical Analysis of Racial Differences in Police Use of Force”) that shows no racial disparity in police-involved shootings. The study shows that each racial and ethnic group makes up about the same percent of police shooting fatalities as they do of arrests. The racial disparity in arrest closely mirrors the racial disparity in victimization reports, so it’s it not a matter of cops targeting blacks.
18
Thanks. But facts are wasted on these people.
9
The Times refuses to give us the background on the racist cop that shot this Black man. Here it is.
http://tinyurl.com/h6lvjsh
Surprised?
http://tinyurl.com/h6lvjsh
Surprised?
8
The Charlotte chief of police is also black.
8
Let's clear some things up. Open carry doesn't apply to carrying it *in your hand* when in the presence of cops. That's just foolish.
We need to know how far the gun was found from the body and when. It might well have been planted. We are not stupid and would like to know.
Where are the videos? Not releasing them immediately is adding fuel to the fire. It makes us suspicious.
Finally, looting is not going to help your cause, but then again, those kids likely don't read the Times. Sigh.
We need to know how far the gun was found from the body and when. It might well have been planted. We are not stupid and would like to know.
Where are the videos? Not releasing them immediately is adding fuel to the fire. It makes us suspicious.
Finally, looting is not going to help your cause, but then again, those kids likely don't read the Times. Sigh.
18
Open carry doesn't allow anyone to carry a gun. Arrest records are also factored in.
People are as ignorant of gun laws as they are of guns.
People are as ignorant of gun laws as they are of guns.
2
Those kids likely don't read comic books.
1
If the man who was shot and killed by police had a gun when he was killed, the gun would have automatically dropped out of his hand and landed very close to his body. Either he had a gun or he didn't have a gun, but producing the police video to the public would settle this problem once and for all. What's the holdup on producing the video? Keeping the video a secret only fuels suspicion and causes more outrage - and rightfully so.
4
It is difficult to understand why the NYT does not state that the police officer in Charlotte was black since in so many of these confrontations racial animus is said to play a major role. Since today both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump denounced the killing in Tulsa it is equally hard to understand the failure of the NYT to mention that singular unity of the candidates.
10
Not difficult to understand. The NYT does not report the truth. They just want to shape opinion.
8
they have mentioned that. so has the washington post.
This is what you get with trump in charge
2
Trump is not in charge.
9
Trump is not in charge,and likely will not be in charge. So your statement is really pointless.
3
Obama is the President.
8
Just this one thought occurs to us at this critical time: quo vadis, USA?
1
...except Trump is not in charge. Factually, this is what you are getting with Obama in charge.
See what I did?
See what I did?
3
Look what the lie of "Hands up, don't shoot" has led to.
15
Looting the Charlotte Hornets gift shop, the NASCAR Hall of Fame, and Buffalo Wild Wings?
That's a whole lot of rage.
That's a whole lot of rage.
23
Everyone with illegal guns should turn them in.
6
North Carolina is NOT an open carry state. To carry legally, you need a license and the gun must be concealed.
12
I believe you also have to inform police that you have a gun in your possession if you are stopped.
2
This is not a Protest! Its a Riot! The crowds were out of control causing Looting Property Damage Bodily Harm and giving Black Lives Matter a bad name! The President these past 8 years had a unique opportunity being the first Black President to be a positive effect on our Social problems only to fail.
14
North Carolina is an open carry state. For whites only, of course.
It is not an open-carry state. The NYT comment thread is a fountain of ignorance and outright lies.
9
Yes it is.
So a bomb-planting terrorist can shoot police and fire his gun at passing cars in a running gun battle yet only be wounded by the police while an unarmed black man is surrounded by police cars and helicopters and shot dead because he looked like a "bad dude." Geez.
6
All of this division and strife between black and white Americans emerged and gets rampant of the watch of first black President... Change you can believe in? I believed.
6
The black community really needs to get its act together. We don't even the facts and they have to go out and "protest?" Maybe working and helping their kids with the homework is more productive then walking around with their hands in the air for a photo op.
23
Oh my. For some reason I feel more secure living in Vermont with all the trees.
It is weird and a strange feeling, but it is true. I love to leave, Montreal, LA, NYC, Detroit....etc, but to return makes me feel better.
it just does. Surreal.
It is weird and a strange feeling, but it is true. I love to leave, Montreal, LA, NYC, Detroit....etc, but to return makes me feel better.
it just does. Surreal.
5
This article staes: "Family members of Mr. Scott have said that he was unarmed and was holding only a book. "
I am always puzzled when family members claim what a victim of police violence (or an arrested) criminal was doing at the time of an incident. They were not there.
I am always puzzled when family members claim what a victim of police violence (or an arrested) criminal was doing at the time of an incident. They were not there.
23
Ask any of the protesters "Just what is to be done? Before the fact...? After the fact...?" Seriously. Get the looters and persons causing property damage to stop for a minute and answer those questions. Ask the black Police Chief. Ask the black shooters?
White America is aware of these tragedies and reacting, taking steps to try to deal with a phenomenon previously unaddressed, admittedly. Millions of government dollars are being spent in investigations and city support teams.
But the problem is systemic to the point of being psychological and sociologically ingrained in individuals. Psychiatric evaluations and testing and close, unbiased, and thorough review of attitudes and actions by supervisors, who themselves need to be constantly evaluated and observed.
What motivates the black police officer that shoots and kills a black person of interest in the streets? Is the white police officer motivated differently? Shooting an unarmed "suspect" in the back is cowardly murder. But in most cases, the officers have been on the force for many years. How do you discover the angst that motivates such an ugly, illegal, immoral act?
Ask the protesters. Asked the lawyers hired before a funeral director. Don't ask the family members until after the settlements. Ask Rev. Jackson, or black mayors and police chiefs and police officers. Ask whites holding the same positions. Ask ourselves.
White America is aware of these tragedies and reacting, taking steps to try to deal with a phenomenon previously unaddressed, admittedly. Millions of government dollars are being spent in investigations and city support teams.
But the problem is systemic to the point of being psychological and sociologically ingrained in individuals. Psychiatric evaluations and testing and close, unbiased, and thorough review of attitudes and actions by supervisors, who themselves need to be constantly evaluated and observed.
What motivates the black police officer that shoots and kills a black person of interest in the streets? Is the white police officer motivated differently? Shooting an unarmed "suspect" in the back is cowardly murder. But in most cases, the officers have been on the force for many years. How do you discover the angst that motivates such an ugly, illegal, immoral act?
Ask the protesters. Asked the lawyers hired before a funeral director. Don't ask the family members until after the settlements. Ask Rev. Jackson, or black mayors and police chiefs and police officers. Ask whites holding the same positions. Ask ourselves.
5
Some of these comments are frightening.
If only because they can be seen as harbingers of things to come, should a bona fide racist like Donald Trump somehow manage to get into the White House.
I personally don't have to worry about getting shot down like some of these people do....But that doesn't mean I'm not at risk, when the whole country is at risk.
Has everyone forgotten that these are American citizens???
What have we come to?
If only because they can be seen as harbingers of things to come, should a bona fide racist like Donald Trump somehow manage to get into the White House.
I personally don't have to worry about getting shot down like some of these people do....But that doesn't mean I'm not at risk, when the whole country is at risk.
Has everyone forgotten that these are American citizens???
What have we come to?
22
You wont get shot because you wont be walking towards a cop with a gun, and if you were, youd drop it when he told you to.
10
If you are white, that is no true. White's get shot by police to. The ratio of population to killings is different, but whites do get shot by police.
5
This will make Trump president, and I am surprised you haven't blamed him for the Black on Black violence perpetrated while the quiet chaos is in progress.
7
As MLK once profoundly stated, a riot is "the language of the unheard".
Much of the commentary I've heard on cable news and talk radio, in each of these related incidents, focuses on the very specific aspects of each case. What they fail to understand is the larger picture. I'm tired of each case coming out, with so-and-so stating the police were justified and others saying the opposite. Tired narratives.
Although important because human life is involved, the big picture is not about whether a certain man had a gun or a book. Or, for that matter, the specifics of each incident.
At large, African Americans are obviously facing entrenched discrimination in this country, from police, law, government, and private society. The BLM movement rightly draws attention to not only the discrimination people of color face when it comes to encountering law enforcement, but broader discrimination found in society as a whole.
This riot is the language of the oppressed, so it is important to understand, and not simply dismiss it as "pointless violence". Unfortunately, as MLK would've said as well, violence only hurts, not aids, the cause. I'm afraid this incident has hurt the perception of the BLM movement, even though no activists engaged in violence and all were peacefully, and meaningfully protesting.
Much of the commentary I've heard on cable news and talk radio, in each of these related incidents, focuses on the very specific aspects of each case. What they fail to understand is the larger picture. I'm tired of each case coming out, with so-and-so stating the police were justified and others saying the opposite. Tired narratives.
Although important because human life is involved, the big picture is not about whether a certain man had a gun or a book. Or, for that matter, the specifics of each incident.
At large, African Americans are obviously facing entrenched discrimination in this country, from police, law, government, and private society. The BLM movement rightly draws attention to not only the discrimination people of color face when it comes to encountering law enforcement, but broader discrimination found in society as a whole.
This riot is the language of the oppressed, so it is important to understand, and not simply dismiss it as "pointless violence". Unfortunately, as MLK would've said as well, violence only hurts, not aids, the cause. I'm afraid this incident has hurt the perception of the BLM movement, even though no activists engaged in violence and all were peacefully, and meaningfully protesting.
14
"African Americans are obviously facing entrenched discrimination . . . ' No, it is NOT obvious.
10
Hey Fausset and Blinder, you misspelled 'riots'.
12
It seems no end to the violence. I come from a military family cousins uncles nephews nieces have all served in the Armed Forces. We respect the uniforms of military and uniformed policemen/ women in this great country.
That said i'm concerned with worry about my grandson who is a young African American male. We've raised our children to be respectful to all authoritive figures.
He sings play piano and dance. He loves going to church. He reads above his grade level loves dolphins and the ocean.
He asked a question. Do white police officers dislike black people.
Absolutely not i responded. He watched me said you always tell the truth.
With so much killing in disproportional
firgues i pray not.
Growing up during segregation with water hose dogs being spit at and the killings. I can't imagine my grandson as a young man being stopped and not moving to quick or simply made a wrong move which black and white do often, how many whites get to walk
away or the worse.. go to jail? We plan
funerals.
By the way we are a biracial mixed family African American German American. No prejudice here, just pondering questions.
Please don't throw in the poor ghetto quotes poor parenting quotes. Would love to see small multicultural communities talk issues before the divide can't be repaired with words.
IF THERE ARE BAD COPS PUT THEM OUT.
Black or white they have to go period.
To the policemen/ policewomen who
protect God bless you.
That said i'm concerned with worry about my grandson who is a young African American male. We've raised our children to be respectful to all authoritive figures.
He sings play piano and dance. He loves going to church. He reads above his grade level loves dolphins and the ocean.
He asked a question. Do white police officers dislike black people.
Absolutely not i responded. He watched me said you always tell the truth.
With so much killing in disproportional
firgues i pray not.
Growing up during segregation with water hose dogs being spit at and the killings. I can't imagine my grandson as a young man being stopped and not moving to quick or simply made a wrong move which black and white do often, how many whites get to walk
away or the worse.. go to jail? We plan
funerals.
By the way we are a biracial mixed family African American German American. No prejudice here, just pondering questions.
Please don't throw in the poor ghetto quotes poor parenting quotes. Would love to see small multicultural communities talk issues before the divide can't be repaired with words.
IF THERE ARE BAD COPS PUT THEM OUT.
Black or white they have to go period.
To the policemen/ policewomen who
protect God bless you.
14
Neither the police nor the protesters benefit from rioting and authoritarianism. You'll note the violence was, as always, instigated by vultures who feed off other's pain to make a name or profit for themselves.
I lived in Charlotte 10 years, and I'm confident neither writer has ever been. Describing Uptown as "dazzling" is just absurd, even for the once-great NYT.
I lived in Charlotte 10 years, and I'm confident neither writer has ever been. Describing Uptown as "dazzling" is just absurd, even for the once-great NYT.
11
God. I am so tired of this. This crap that nobody is at fault except the police. It's absurd! Yes, police brutality needs to be stopped. It's horrible and wrong and immoral and criminal. And yes, there is still racism in the U.S. However, that is only PART of the story. Everybody is afraid to speak the truth, even though everybody knows what the truth is! Everybody, both black and white, knows what the real deal is! Nobody is being fooled! I am so very tired of white people being blamed for everything that is wrong in the black community. Is it white people's fault that 70% of African American children live with no father? Is it white people's fault that so many guys have babies, then abandon the mothers and the poor children? THAT is despicable and that is heinous, and it happens EVERY day and nobody protests! Children are being abandoned. They are being brought up in poverty and struggle. This happens by the millions, yet nobody bands together to stop it! Same with black on black crime. Why is nobody organizing against that reality and why are their no protests? Yeah, we all know that the cops are bad sometimes. But the majority of times they are good and they go into black neighborhoods and protect the black people there from criminals. I am sick of the dishonest, one sided discourse in this country around race. Both the racist cops and African Americans need to take responsibility and get it together. And my kids are black, so spare me the racism label.
48
Where are the video tapes and why hasn't the Mayor already reviewed them? Why has her spokesperson already said that the tapes will not be released? This smells like a cover-up. The tapes must be released for this protest to stop.
When a segment of the population claims to never, ever be guilty of anything, such claims damage any belief in the veracity of the truly innocent.
22
why is there so little balance in reporting? the police are vilified as the aggressors; the criminals are viewed as victims of police violence. no wonder the majority of us don't trust what we read in the liberal press!
29
I'll give you the breakdown of top 4 races killed by Police in 2013 according to The Guardian:
1. Native Americans
2. Blacks
3. Hispanics
4. Whites
African-Americans make up only 13 percent of the population, yet they are the victims in 26 percent of all police shootings. That is nearly 3 times the rate of whites.The racial group most likely to be killed by law enforcement is Native Americans. While Native Americans only make up 0.8 percent of the population, they make up 1.9 percent of all police killings.
1. Native Americans
2. Blacks
3. Hispanics
4. Whites
African-Americans make up only 13 percent of the population, yet they are the victims in 26 percent of all police shootings. That is nearly 3 times the rate of whites.The racial group most likely to be killed by law enforcement is Native Americans. While Native Americans only make up 0.8 percent of the population, they make up 1.9 percent of all police killings.
4
@Juliette MacMullen,
If you are honest you should add the stats for percentage of crime committed by each group.
If you are honest you should add the stats for percentage of crime committed by each group.
15
maybe..just maybe..some groups of people do not threaten policeman's lives as much as other groups of people...
10
First of all these statistics are from 2016--not 2013 I mistyped and
Second of all CNN reports that 38 Officers were killed this year so
Thirdly 790:38 is .048 comparison
Second of all CNN reports that 38 Officers were killed this year so
Thirdly 790:38 is .048 comparison
There are a lot of accounts on social media that it was not "civilian on civilian" crime, but in fact police on civilian crime. Word is spreading that the man was either shot at point blank range with either a rubber bullet or tear-gas canister to the head. From social media citizens' reporting, the man in the cover photo who is keeping people away, is Todd Zimmer, one of the people who is confirming this story and claims to have video of the event taking place.
1
So bearing in mind past situations like "hands up" etc, it is a lie.
4
Reality check nothing last forever end violance will begin with ending welfare.Its all about money crime ect ect ect.Non of people who riot are making it better for any one. Build more jails an throw keys away for the trouble makers .Jails shuold be for real workers who cant live in real world
4
For the sake of peoples lives and property damage, the first thing the police should have done is to release the video if there was nothing to hide. None of this would have happened if they had showed the darn video. The police and public deserved to see it asap. What a mess.
8
I found reports of Scott having "a record" - they were all on radio websites (hate radio anyone?) except one newspaper that said all charges were dismissed except one misdemeanor. Just because one is charged doesn't mean they were guilty. Charges that are dismissed is not what I would call a record.
2
The NYT has failed to mention that the cop responsible for the shooting was black. This is a very pertinent fact and not a simple oversight. It is consistent with the paper's desire to make the facts fit a preordained "narrative". That narrative is of persistent racism and black victimhood. The rich white man who owns this newspaper likes this storyline because it gets the monkey off of his back, that of the rich stealing everything from the rest of us (through income inequality and the power of capital over wages.)
The insistence on promoting a black narrative, that refuses to tell the whole truth, is disconcerting to middle class whites and it is causing the rise of angry, demagogue Trump.
The insistence on promoting a black narrative, that refuses to tell the whole truth, is disconcerting to middle class whites and it is causing the rise of angry, demagogue Trump.
20
The article does say the officer in question is a Black man.
While it's not in the first few paraphrases, the Times does mention that the police officer is black: "At a news conference on Wednesday, Kerr Putney, chief of the Charlotte-Mecklenburg police, said officers had found the gun that the police said Mr. Scott had brandished before an officer, who is also black, fatally shot him and were examining police video of the encounter that unfolded as Mr. Scott stepped out of a car." Sometimes you just have to read the entire article...
This year I have listened to friends and to media, and I have learned the difference between knowing intellectually about racism and how skin color affects opportunity, and what it is to live always with one eye and one ear towards potential trouble.
I have not yet been afraid of being physically attacked by the police although that day is much closer than it was before, just as I fear guns in the hands of irresponsible people.
The tsunami of racist, misogynist, homophobic, ethnocentric, ant-iintellectual nonsense is destroying our national identity, trust and respect.
I have not yet been afraid of being physically attacked by the police although that day is much closer than it was before, just as I fear guns in the hands of irresponsible people.
The tsunami of racist, misogynist, homophobic, ethnocentric, ant-iintellectual nonsense is destroying our national identity, trust and respect.
3
I still remember the unrest of the 1960s. I remember Watts. I also remember Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy. And I remember a paralyzed government and Lyndon Johnson. I remember how the Bronx was torched and turned in rubble. I remember Black Panthers and I remember Governor Wallace.
Racism and riots and killing of blacks is nothing new. Corralling people into ghettos and the projects is nothing new. Stop and frisk is the same as blaming an entire population for the crimes of individuals. It works but it demeans and harasses everyone while creating fear of law enforcement. We know that 72% of black children are born out of wedlock. We know that cigarette and tobacco companies target black populations. We know that blacks are denied jobs, education, equal opportunity and equal justice under the law. We know that the laws signed by Bill Clinton resulted in incarceration of tens of thousands of black mail and no one really cares.
So, a black man is shot in Charlotte. And the truth be told is that nothing changes and no one really cares. The black community still struggles for freedom and justice. The white community still offers prayers and condolences. And the so-called leadership in Washington is still paralyzed and still unmoved. And still unwilling and unable to change.
Let's elect people who are dedicated to change not just enforcing laws and promising safety. Let's all of us black and white march on Washington and demand change. Real change. let's look inward too.
Racism and riots and killing of blacks is nothing new. Corralling people into ghettos and the projects is nothing new. Stop and frisk is the same as blaming an entire population for the crimes of individuals. It works but it demeans and harasses everyone while creating fear of law enforcement. We know that 72% of black children are born out of wedlock. We know that cigarette and tobacco companies target black populations. We know that blacks are denied jobs, education, equal opportunity and equal justice under the law. We know that the laws signed by Bill Clinton resulted in incarceration of tens of thousands of black mail and no one really cares.
So, a black man is shot in Charlotte. And the truth be told is that nothing changes and no one really cares. The black community still struggles for freedom and justice. The white community still offers prayers and condolences. And the so-called leadership in Washington is still paralyzed and still unmoved. And still unwilling and unable to change.
Let's elect people who are dedicated to change not just enforcing laws and promising safety. Let's all of us black and white march on Washington and demand change. Real change. let's look inward too.
8
Well. . . . nice story, bro.
3
Stop looking to Washington to solve your problems. Out of wedlock births? Crime? Drugs? You have the power to stop these - you don't need Washington. Personal responsibility and strong values are what's needed, not more federal dollars.
7
"You have the power to stop these - you don't need Washington. Personal responsibility and strong values are what's needed, not more federal dollars."
It was federal programs that caused a lot of damage. The projects are federally funded. The exporting of jobs and industry were allowed through federal trade regulations and treaties. The civil rights legislation was federal and the Bill Clinton law enforcement statutes were federal as well. The failed programs and legislation were generally federally mandated and paid for through tax dollars. We supported or at least did not defend against those failures. Hence our state and federal responsibility to African Americans. We created the welfare state. Its taken 30 years to complain about jobs exported and school funding at the state level that is highly inadequate. We created the ghettos and failing schools. We tolerated the high cost of college education with our silence and inaction. Personal responsibility and strong values are needed but so is social equality, a fair judicial system, opportunity for equal access to good education and housing and jobs. We made a good deal of this mess. We can help undo it. New workable and successful State and federal programs are absolutely part of the solution.
It was federal programs that caused a lot of damage. The projects are federally funded. The exporting of jobs and industry were allowed through federal trade regulations and treaties. The civil rights legislation was federal and the Bill Clinton law enforcement statutes were federal as well. The failed programs and legislation were generally federally mandated and paid for through tax dollars. We supported or at least did not defend against those failures. Hence our state and federal responsibility to African Americans. We created the welfare state. Its taken 30 years to complain about jobs exported and school funding at the state level that is highly inadequate. We created the ghettos and failing schools. We tolerated the high cost of college education with our silence and inaction. Personal responsibility and strong values are needed but so is social equality, a fair judicial system, opportunity for equal access to good education and housing and jobs. We made a good deal of this mess. We can help undo it. New workable and successful State and federal programs are absolutely part of the solution.
1
Clinton's comments yesterday on the event threw more gas on the fire. For the first time, Trump's comments were more presidential. Yes, my fellow Clinton supporters, the truth on this small point hurts. I am still with Clinton, but by a thread.
16
Have you not figured out by now that Trump makes comments and speeches that appeal to or incite his audience at hand? He would have said something entirely different had his target audience been a group of law and order/policemen. He is a complete fake and a chameleon.
Not all cops should carry guns--only some, specially trained and screened for staying calm, making sure they need to shoot, etc.
This has GOT to stop.
This has GOT to stop.
1
They should carry a book instead.
2
Every time a policeman or policewomen needs to pull someone
over or make an arrest, they have to assume the person has a gun,
because of the lack of gun control in this country. This is an untenable situation
for the police, must make them nervous and quick on the trigger. Why they aren't in favor of stronger gun control is beyond me. How do they tell the
good guys from the bad guys? They can't, and that's a problem.
over or make an arrest, they have to assume the person has a gun,
because of the lack of gun control in this country. This is an untenable situation
for the police, must make them nervous and quick on the trigger. Why they aren't in favor of stronger gun control is beyond me. How do they tell the
good guys from the bad guys? They can't, and that's a problem.
11
(Not Mark) What does gun control have to do with it? How many criminals and wannabes out there use legally registered firearms. What to guess?
3
To "not Mark". You just made my point. With stronger
gun control like we use to have, if the police saw a person
carrying a gun, or a gun in their possession, such as a car,
they knew they were probably dealing with a dangerous
situation. Now, with open carry, etc. a policeman or women
doesn't know what they're dealing with. Has to make them nervous.
gun control like we use to have, if the police saw a person
carrying a gun, or a gun in their possession, such as a car,
they knew they were probably dealing with a dangerous
situation. Now, with open carry, etc. a policeman or women
doesn't know what they're dealing with. Has to make them nervous.
1
Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch said Wednesday that the Justice Department “is aware of, and we are assessing, the incident that led to the death of Keith Lamont Scott in Charlotte.”
Maybe Attorney General Lynch and President Obama should address the rioting and looting- the inciters of these crimes should be charged with domestic terrorism.
Maybe Attorney General Lynch and President Obama should address the rioting and looting- the inciters of these crimes should be charged with domestic terrorism.
21
A black man with a gun is not equal to white man with a gun. Society assumes that one is about to commit a crime and that the other stands ready to protect his family from the same. Police kill black men because black men are presumed dangerous, violent, after white women - unless, of course, the black man is Cosby in which case...oh crap, wait a minute...
5
This is gross. Where is the president? Making the turn at some posh golf resort?
10
So Joe, when you have a crisis or emergency at your work, do you prefer to have your boss's boss's boss, who probably can contribute nothing to resolving the issue and would probably only get in the way, come to your work area and get in the way of the people who know what they're doing?
2
Just a word about the totally peaceful protests in Tulsa. That was a bad shoot and the community is protesting but peacefully. Sadly, peaceful protests don't make it to the news.
24
I am so glad that I live in an area with a black population of 0.2% of the total.
10
This is learned behavior.
They learn it from their parents, their civic leaders, their Congressional leaders, their President.
The incite and the people react.
But, it's all the white peoples fault...
They learn it from their parents, their civic leaders, their Congressional leaders, their President.
The incite and the people react.
But, it's all the white peoples fault...
13
Racism is a subtly and not so subtly, TAUGHT and LEARNED behavior in ALL races.........the whites dont like blacks but black nannies,housekeepers,and nursing/home companions look after their white children and valued elderly,because their caring and concern springs from a from a cultural understanding of suffering .......and how to compensate for it and prevent it.
This is one reason why decendents of a people who helped build America with their free labor ,being treated inhumanely as chattel...........say NO MORE of what we lived through and are still living through(slaverys social and cultural consequences).............not one more victim of your injustice!
Until American leaders and people clearly and sincerel understand (especially in the southern states)that racism and injustice cannot be woven into the social fabric without causing disintegration........violence will result.
This is one reason why decendents of a people who helped build America with their free labor ,being treated inhumanely as chattel...........say NO MORE of what we lived through and are still living through(slaverys social and cultural consequences).............not one more victim of your injustice!
Until American leaders and people clearly and sincerel understand (especially in the southern states)that racism and injustice cannot be woven into the social fabric without causing disintegration........violence will result.
Repeal the Second Amendment and teach poor blacks personal responsibility instead of blaming racism. Also, stop giving a bullhorn to left wing pundits who oppose teaching personal responsibility.
2
That would be . . . no.
Where is the next incident going to happen? There are literally thousands of neighborhoods and communities that have the potential to erupt. I can identify hundreds in the New York/New Jersey area alone. The same nonsense happens every time. The incident takes place, the biased media cover it with virtually no corroborated details, the dregs of society react to the rumor by looting without real concern for the victim, the usual opportunistic activists emerge spouting the same old disingenuous slogans, the politicians condemn the tragedy offering empty promises for reform, the dysfunctional family of the victim grieves publicly while blaming everyone but themselves, the talking heads have all the answers, the nation experiences a few weeks of turmoil, the President holes out on 18, then something really important happens like Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt filing for divorce and nothing ever gets done to give real help to the hapless, helpless communities that are the breeding ground for these abominations. What can be done? We must all understand that we are a nation of laws and that the police and the victim are entitled to absolutely transparent, closely monitored and inscrutable "Due Process". "Know Justice. Know peace." is the more relevant spelling and meaning of the knee jerk threat we are sick of hearing. Above all, we must eliminate the poverty and ignorance that festers in these troubled communities by offering viable, authentic, FAMILY based solutions.
8
I am in Charlotte and appreciate the comments here and coverage of what is another tragic killing in a country we have shaped to tolerate and expect violence. And the NY Times plays into that violence-shaping. Why is there no parallel coverage of the peaceful protest that was taking place down the street from the violence? Why is there no coverage of the many difficult discussions people in workplaces and students in schools and universities had all day, and will continue to have. That is where the other work takes place: where people struggle to listen, to examine their racism, to work towards resolutions that don't default to violence. Journalism that only feeds violent constructions feed racist stereotypes and such journalism paves the way for a violent future. I am not about erasing genocide at home or everywhere else; exposure is vital and that is journalism's job. But I no longer pick up the NYT without seeing verbal or physical violence across a majority of its pages. That construction of (a partial) reality erases what most people are like on a daily basis; it erases the discussions people are having in Charlotte and elsewhere, and it erases their hope for a different future.
5
There was a time not that long ago when having a weapon didn't immediately mean that it was allowable for a police office to use deadly force. (Not saying this person had a gun.) Now it is "understood" that if anyone has a weapon or "lunges aggressively" toward a police officer, deadly force is warranted. Why? Are all of the methods and non-lethal tools suddenly not enough? The response tactics and judgement of the police have been lost (with it the trust of the average citizen).
1
Put your hands on the car and don't move. How simple is that?
8
Getting the facts of what actually happened before protesting? Not anymore.
Riots and civil disobedience seems to be the new norm nowadays, nurtured by a president and his Administration that has used divisiveness and the race card since coming to power. Meanwhile every incident is used to push their agenda against guns, along with the MSM as cheerleaders. Nothing they do is by accident, but has been cleverly crafted. True masters of deceit.
Riots and civil disobedience seems to be the new norm nowadays, nurtured by a president and his Administration that has used divisiveness and the race card since coming to power. Meanwhile every incident is used to push their agenda against guns, along with the MSM as cheerleaders. Nothing they do is by accident, but has been cleverly crafted. True masters of deceit.
18
Riots and civil disobedience are not the same thing; as for the "new norm" there is plenty of historical precedent for both. Remember the two Kings, Martin & Rodney...way back in the 20th century. The pursuit of justice never ends.
1
You are so wrong that it boggles the mind. Obviously you didn't live through the 60's. It is not the President who encourages divisiveness... Congress on the other hand gleefully reads your rant and says to themselves "we can get them to believe anything."
Just think of it as the Colosseum without walls, with mobility, travelling from city to city, erupting as the populace demands.
2
Regardless the makeup of an area, with respect to propensity for bad and or criminal behavior, in this nation, I know beyond any doubt whatsoever, tbat white America, and I'm white, is way too quick, and desirous of blaming such on black and other minority Americans.
And this inhuman behavior to our fellow human beings, finds an outlet in the actions of the police; if you are black, or other minority, interaction with police will get you shot, perhaps dead.
There is no other reasonable explanation for the fact, we rarely, nearly never, read of such behavior against white Americans.
So, all you who try, in every convoluted way, to blame our minority fellow human beings, for God's sake try and help stop this white American drive to exacerbate, and keep racism alive in our nation.
And this inhuman behavior to our fellow human beings, finds an outlet in the actions of the police; if you are black, or other minority, interaction with police will get you shot, perhaps dead.
There is no other reasonable explanation for the fact, we rarely, nearly never, read of such behavior against white Americans.
So, all you who try, in every convoluted way, to blame our minority fellow human beings, for God's sake try and help stop this white American drive to exacerbate, and keep racism alive in our nation.
2
There's confusing and contradictory information out there about when police are allowed to use deadly force. It also seems to depend on location. We need a national policy and training on police use of deadly force. There are laws that say police can use deadly force when they feel threatened, without knowing for sure whether or not they actually are under threat. There are also laws that say police are not permitted to take your life without direct threat to themselves or others. We need a national standard. President Obama could make this one of his parting issues, and propose a bill to have a national standard that is defined in a way that is reasonable. Even if it is not passed, it will start the process of work on this issue, one that is tearing the country apart.
2
Let the final facts rule. Be it for the police or for the victim. After the investigation, with the facts on the table justice should play out. The violence needs to stop. If a crime has been committed let justice judge the guilty.
7
Just tonight, 2 different North Carolina tv stations confirmed sources saying that the video DOES show Keith Scott exiting the car with a gun. He didn't drop it after 2 commands to do so. Since it's part of an on-going investigation, North Carolina law prohibits it from being shown----yet. In almost every single case of supposed racism of the police (even when a black policeman is the shooter!) the lies get out first. Riots and looting happen. The narrative is advanced. By the time the investigation is concluded, it's ho-hum and on to the next person who thinks pointing a gun at a policeman is okay.
24
The Fraternal Order of Police endorsed Donald Trump? Wow. To endorse an openly bigoted man who favors fascist solutions to political divisions in this country is shocking for any institution that wishes to be respected. Trump has not conducted himself in a way that is deserving of respect. I am very disappointed in the FOP.
14
I quit giving them money every year when it was discovered a five years ago a few were stealing it for shady businesses. Always the few bad ones ruin it for the rest.
It's obvious injustice exists in our society and is a problem that needs to be recognized and addressed immediately. But the process of resolution is tarnished by the opportunistic looters who undermine everything the protesters are trying to accomplish.
18
So much for the "racist" theories put forth by the endless stream of race baiters. The officer was black as is the police chief.
When these investigations are completed, which take time, they almost always find facts that are opposite of what the protesters claim. Are facts now "racist," too?
When these investigations are completed, which take time, they almost always find facts that are opposite of what the protesters claim. Are facts now "racist," too?
38
Paul, a witness on TV this morning, said it was a white police officer who shot him. Apparently the black officer is the fall guy-he gets a paid vacation and they might just wait it out.
The mayor of Charlotte:"But she said she would not make the video public."
Why not? So much rioting, the national guard is called out but the video will not be made public. Looks like they got something to cover up.
The mayor of Charlotte:"But she said she would not make the video public."
Why not? So much rioting, the national guard is called out but the video will not be made public. Looks like they got something to cover up.
Charlotte: there is a an acceptance, almost legitimacy, suggested by the words protest and unrest. We must call these events what they are: riots. Until we do, young people will believe that protest is violent. They need to know that the great protest leaders in modern history, Ghandi and King, were very deliberate in thier non-violence.
33
An armed terrorist in News Jersey is captured alive even as he is firing his weapon at law enforcement, but a black man with his hands up and his back toward the police is such an irredeemable threat that he must be shot and killed.
I know I am not the only one making that observation: we should all be repeating it until we are blue in the face and meaningful, systemic action is taken.
I know I am not the only one making that observation: we should all be repeating it until we are blue in the face and meaningful, systemic action is taken.
29
And you don't think that the police capturing the potential terrorist live might have something to do with them being able to extract information from him regarding the extent of terrorist activity in the U.S.? Sorry, but l don't see these two police events as equivalent in their meaning.
2
Law enforcement's live capture(s), rapid investigations and thorough prosecution of armed terror suspects strikes me as an indication of their perceived value to the country.
What value is attributed to black citizens when the country's law enforcement approach to black "suspects" is commonly fearful, fearsome and deadly?
What value is attributed to black citizens when the country's law enforcement approach to black "suspects" is commonly fearful, fearsome and deadly?
1
(Not Mark) I read that he had a gun, not that his hands were up.
2
A black cop working under a black police chief kills an armed black man after several requests for him to drop his gun.
During the protest a protester shoots a black man.
Seems to me that when as many people have died in the protest as the event your protesting, it's time to stop, a stark reminder how quickly these situations can get sidetracked from the righteous purpose that was intended.
...and Hillary is going to talk to the white people and tell them to stop it, driving more people into Donald Trump's arms.
This is a police problem and the way police departments have been militarized and trained to shoot first and ask questions later.
During the protest a protester shoots a black man.
Seems to me that when as many people have died in the protest as the event your protesting, it's time to stop, a stark reminder how quickly these situations can get sidetracked from the righteous purpose that was intended.
...and Hillary is going to talk to the white people and tell them to stop it, driving more people into Donald Trump's arms.
This is a police problem and the way police departments have been militarized and trained to shoot first and ask questions later.
21
Hillary has nothing to do with this.
Maybe I'm just naive or oblivious, but it seems to me that cops, for the most part, don't just shoot people to kill them for no reason. They know full well that if they shoot anyone, they will be put on leave and investigated.
I honestly believe that for the most part, cops are shooting those that they either fear will harm others if not stopped or will do them harm. It's not just White or Asian cops shooting black men either; it's black cops shooting blacks. That should tell you something. Black cops, like their white, Asian and Hispanic counterparts all want to live through the end of their shift and go home to their loved ones.
While I don't doubt that there are instances of racism, that there have been unfounded shootings and arrests of black men, I think there is a bigger story here. It's not one that the black community wants to hear nor one their supporters of all colors want to recognize either. I honestly believe that the black community needs to look at why there is the level of violence in black neighborhoods that there is. The black on black violence. The disrespect for black women. The drugs and crime. The lack of stable family structure.
I won't support BlackLivesMatter. The recent inclusion of it's pro-Palestinian anti-Zionist statements in its platform was the finishing touch for me. Maybe blacks should consider fixing what is wrong in their own communities before they hurl accusations at people across the world.
I honestly believe that for the most part, cops are shooting those that they either fear will harm others if not stopped or will do them harm. It's not just White or Asian cops shooting black men either; it's black cops shooting blacks. That should tell you something. Black cops, like their white, Asian and Hispanic counterparts all want to live through the end of their shift and go home to their loved ones.
While I don't doubt that there are instances of racism, that there have been unfounded shootings and arrests of black men, I think there is a bigger story here. It's not one that the black community wants to hear nor one their supporters of all colors want to recognize either. I honestly believe that the black community needs to look at why there is the level of violence in black neighborhoods that there is. The black on black violence. The disrespect for black women. The drugs and crime. The lack of stable family structure.
I won't support BlackLivesMatter. The recent inclusion of it's pro-Palestinian anti-Zionist statements in its platform was the finishing touch for me. Maybe blacks should consider fixing what is wrong in their own communities before they hurl accusations at people across the world.
56
In the last 40 years we have abandoned the inner cities. We pretend the issue of poor education and underemployment is simply beyond our capacity to respond to. We cure cancer, fly to the moon and invent self driving cars but just cannot figure out how to house, educate and employ people well. Does anyone truly believe that is anything other that lack of will? We moved not just an army but an airforce, a navy and built literal towns and bases around Baghdad almost overnight but employing and educating young men just seems beyond our grasp........really? This is not an issue of the police. It is an issue of us. All of us. We have build countries within the country. We have abandoned the cities long ago. To allow this to be a simpleton debate of whether a guy was armed or not misses the much greater social context in which these killings are occurring. Fact is - educated folks who are gainfully employed and have strong futures are the best antidote for it all - but you won't read that on tonight's news
2
police officers arent supposed to be fearful of blacks
The Times and other liberal leaning media have a clear agenda to paint all cases of a black man killed in an altercation with the police as racist. Misleading headlines, biased and leading "reporting", conclusions draw with no evidence, alternate interpretations and background left out, downplayed or ignored. Rather than basing the reporting on the known facts of the incident, all cases are presented with the same trust with guilt on the part of the police assumed. Even the "man shot" heading is misleading. Clearly intended to be ambiguous so the reader's first though will be another one! Funny too that it doesn't not say black man shot to black man shoots black man.
22
Actually the official account differs from witnesses who report that the protester was shot by police. Perhaps a video will clear this up as it has so many false official accounts, revealing that civilian witnesses, not the police, were telling the truth.
1
Helium.
Why was anyone shot? Are the police so inept as to not be able to diffuse a situation without resorting to murder?
Why was anyone shot? Are the police so inept as to not be able to diffuse a situation without resorting to murder?
1
HMM..Helium does make for silly talking.
1
The needless killing of any person is a tragedy and cannot be condoned. Unfortunately, there are some among us who use these incidents as an excuse for collective bad behavior. That cannot be condoned either.
27
Police incidents require fair investigation,
but the criminal element has overwhelmed too many communities.
Criminals and anarchist use any provocation,regardless of the facts, to justify their rioting, looting and violence.
Hillary Clinton and the Democrats have used the political rhetoric of racial injustice to incite greater racial divisiveness with the purpose of increasing the Black vote.
This has severely damaged the country.
but the criminal element has overwhelmed too many communities.
Criminals and anarchist use any provocation,regardless of the facts, to justify their rioting, looting and violence.
Hillary Clinton and the Democrats have used the political rhetoric of racial injustice to incite greater racial divisiveness with the purpose of increasing the Black vote.
This has severely damaged the country.
29
Yours is an amazingly inverted viewpoint.
These black people
And there are hundreds of examples
Were living their lives and they were
just killed by police
As they went along.
Not armed
Not dangerous
Why why why
This is not a Repub/Dem issue
This is a human rights issue.
Black lives matters. All lives matter
But most people don't fear for their lives when they see a policemen.
It is time to open our collective eyes and demand change
Not blame the victims!
These black people
And there are hundreds of examples
Were living their lives and they were
just killed by police
As they went along.
Not armed
Not dangerous
Why why why
This is not a Repub/Dem issue
This is a human rights issue.
Black lives matters. All lives matter
But most people don't fear for their lives when they see a policemen.
It is time to open our collective eyes and demand change
Not blame the victims!
I grieve for my country.
I grieve for my African American brothers who fear for their lives as they go about their normal, everyday lives.
I grieve for honest, hard working police officers trying to do an important and difficult job, upon which our society depends.
I grieve that no solution is in sight to address this terrible situation.
I grieve for my African American brothers who fear for their lives as they go about their normal, everyday lives.
I grieve for honest, hard working police officers trying to do an important and difficult job, upon which our society depends.
I grieve that no solution is in sight to address this terrible situation.
46
Being 70+ years old, remembering and living through civil rights protests and actions of the 60's, I simply ask ... where are the leaders? Unfortunately, it seems with diffuse social media and twitter dependent "press" that leaderless-ness unfocussed ebbs and flows, achieving nothing other than justifying one side or the other seem to define the present situation. Sloshing one side and the other. No leaders speaking, shaping the discourse. The current movement is "rudderless" on all sides ... sad and accomplishing nothing.
21
Very well said!
The validity of the protests are lost among the violence of the protestors. There is no reason for people to loot or destroy their neighborhoods in order to protest. If Black lives do in fact matter, which they do, then all violence in the Black community should be addressed by the black community. There is simply too much violence in black neighborhoods. There are too many black victims of black violence and nobody wants to talk about this elephant in the room.
Stop shooting each other and hopefully the police will stop shooting at you.
Stop shooting each other and hopefully the police will stop shooting at you.
20
Blame the victims.
People don't suddenly become thieves and loot stores because a cop was killed. These riots expose the lawlessness and violence with which certain people routinely carry out their lives. They are likely the same people who make their neighborhoods dangerous at other times. A protest is just an opportunity for them to act without concern for apprehension. They take cover among the protesters.
What's hard to understand is why these criminals are permitted to carry out their crimes during protests.
What's hard to understand is why these criminals are permitted to carry out their crimes during protests.
25
If cops arrested these criminals during the riots, it would just incense the black community even more. Looting now had become an "entitlement". However if looting occurred on Rodeo Drive, Fifth Avenue, Michigan Avenue or some other chichi upscale shopping venue, there would be a bloodbath. Let "them" destroy their own neighborhoods. The NAACP seems not to care to do anything about black on black murders. It's always the whitey's fault! It will never change and I feel no sympathy for "them".
5
It is shocking that every now and then unarmed Black people are shot by policemen. One stray incident could be accepted. But when it has become a routine, it raises serious doubts. The accusation that racial discrimination has risen its ugly head cannot be brushed aside so easily. It is more shocking that such incidents happen when the U.S. has a Black President. Erring policemen should be sacked and put behind bars.
8
The photo reminds me very much of Goya's famous painting, "The Third of May" from 1808. Here, however, the subject shoots itself. How apt. How everything is aligning for a Trump Presidency and a sea change that will possibly eclipse his predecessor's supremacy in the change department.
5
What is the desired endpoint in these riots? There is none. There is destruction and then everyone goes back to their flat screen TVs for more reality avoidance. The NY Times and the media in general are complicit in fomenting this type of behavior by validating it with their coverage. There is no white cop on black man shooting epidemic. In of a country of nearly 400 million inhabitants, there are about 150 cases of this, commensurate with higher crime rates within that demographic. It is a media manufactured "problem" intended to move print and generate clicks.
19
Criminal justice experts have come up with eight practices that can vastly improve police/community relationships and reduce police/civilian violence.
Require officers to de-escalate situations before resorting to force
Limit the kinds of force that can be used to respond to specific forms of resistance
Restrict chokeholds
Require officers to give verbal warning before using force
Prohibit officers from shooting at moving vehicles
Require officers to exhaust all alternatives to deadly force
Require officers to stop colleagues from exercising excessive force
Require comprehensive reporting on use of force.
Unfortunately they found that not a single department used all eight practices. While the facts of this particular case are still unfolding, the anger of the black community is based on a larger pattern of police abuse that shapes perception beyond the facts. In 1965 the LA riots began because of a rumor that police had beaten a black cab driver to death. The actual beating never occurred, but that neighborhood had experienced plenty of police abuse in the past which had been ignored by officials. I think it was Robert Kennedy who said that when you prevent change from happening peacefully you create the conditions for it to happen violently.
Require officers to de-escalate situations before resorting to force
Limit the kinds of force that can be used to respond to specific forms of resistance
Restrict chokeholds
Require officers to give verbal warning before using force
Prohibit officers from shooting at moving vehicles
Require officers to exhaust all alternatives to deadly force
Require officers to stop colleagues from exercising excessive force
Require comprehensive reporting on use of force.
Unfortunately they found that not a single department used all eight practices. While the facts of this particular case are still unfolding, the anger of the black community is based on a larger pattern of police abuse that shapes perception beyond the facts. In 1965 the LA riots began because of a rumor that police had beaten a black cab driver to death. The actual beating never occurred, but that neighborhood had experienced plenty of police abuse in the past which had been ignored by officials. I think it was Robert Kennedy who said that when you prevent change from happening peacefully you create the conditions for it to happen violently.
6
Modern pistols fire at a mere suggestion compared with the old revolvers or 1911 autos. It is all too easy to fire under pressure, these weapons do in effect fire themselves in comparison. That's why toddlers have killed more of us than terrorists. We need more than a conversation on this.
2
I've said this before and I'll say it again. In the 60's they rioted and burnt cities, drove businesses out, and wound up having to go five miles for a loaf of bread. Is this where they're headed again? They should think about the damage done to their own communities when they protest violently. Violence begets violence and more. Vote these politicians out that aren't doing enough to perps. Cops included.
6
Here's what is actually happening in the Charlotte PD. They are stalling to see if any other local street camera or cellphone video turns up that may contradict their explanation of this event. If not, they are taking the time to edit video or agree on an scenario that would support their explanation of events. If that was not the case, then they would release video of the shooting if for no other reason than to calm public anger over the shooting and protect public safety and property.
2
Through my cousins I met a visiting retired London police officer who described an incident involving a group of rowdy youth who were creating a disturbance in his neighbourhood. He went over, at night, alone and "had a little talk" with them. It was tense but he was cool and calm in the face of threats of violence. Now this was England of course but still I was impressed with the raw bravery of a man in his sixties. That's the kind of screening we need-police who are brave and can talk in the face of danger. Here in Canada we draw guns far too quickly.
2
someone quoted a statistic that is public: there have been something like 750 fatal shootings by police this year-only 160 have been black men. So, looks to me like the police are NOT targeting just black men.
People use force when they feel it is justified. Each case is different. In this case, the officer is black, the police chief is black, the victim is black. There is a weapon recovered from the scene. There is report of video of this event.
People should go home and wait for all the facts to come out, not destroy property and act like lawless people.
People use force when they feel it is justified. Each case is different. In this case, the officer is black, the police chief is black, the victim is black. There is a weapon recovered from the scene. There is report of video of this event.
People should go home and wait for all the facts to come out, not destroy property and act like lawless people.
10
To Alex Landry:
Accepting for the moment that you statistic is correct:
— blacks account for 21% of fatal shootings but are only 12% of the population.
— non-hispanic whites account for, let's say, 50% of fatal shootings (not clear from your stat, I'm relying on other data), but are 63% of the population.
So, at least based on that superficial data, there is bias.
What matters is not whether or not the officer or the police chief is black: what matters is the culture and consequent training of the police force. You may have heard of the concept of the self-hating Jew? Maybe something similar applies here, where the black person's identity as a black person is subsumed by the culture that he is working in.
Accepting for the moment that you statistic is correct:
— blacks account for 21% of fatal shootings but are only 12% of the population.
— non-hispanic whites account for, let's say, 50% of fatal shootings (not clear from your stat, I'm relying on other data), but are 63% of the population.
So, at least based on that superficial data, there is bias.
What matters is not whether or not the officer or the police chief is black: what matters is the culture and consequent training of the police force. You may have heard of the concept of the self-hating Jew? Maybe something similar applies here, where the black person's identity as a black person is subsumed by the culture that he is working in.
1
Would there be fewer shootings of black citizens and suspects if there were more black police officers? If only black officers were assigned to predominantly black neighborhoods or called to respond to incidents involving black citizens? Would that improve black citizens' relationships with local police and restore trust and cooperation? Although it would be discriminatory policy and practice, maybe it's time to try it.
1
You do know that the police officer in this case is black, right? As is the police chief.
1
Did you see the officer was black?
1
Yes I know. But I'm assuming that black officers are still a disproportionate minority of the local forces nationwide. For black citizens, the face of police in their neighborhoods is still very white so it becomes easier for them to presume every incident results from "racist cops" not just a poorly trained cop or one who made a mistake.
Less drugs, less gangs, better trained cops who are not afraid of every black man they encounter, more minorities on the police force, and dialogue. This is going to destroy us when we have come so far. Cops see everything and its not pretty. They have a lot of stress as does every black person who see the police coming toward them. Protesting is a great way to get attention but there are some who only want violence. Before this gets much worse, we need to fix it now. We better all pray for our country and for each other. We can fix this.
4
Since 9/11, the police have been militarized. The NRA has used fear to sell more guns and expand gun possession. The police are afraid. The 1% keep getting richer, the rest of us poorer. And this is the result.
In the next decade, throw into the mix the effects of global warming; expensive food, displacement due to rising sea levels, job loss, and extreme weather. We are facing serious problems. Please vote.
In the next decade, throw into the mix the effects of global warming; expensive food, displacement due to rising sea levels, job loss, and extreme weather. We are facing serious problems. Please vote.
9
Too many guns in the possession of the American people.
Too many angry people in the American culture.
Too many working poor in a country with too many greedy business execs
like the banker from Wells Fargo and Mylan's Epi-pen who just got grilled by the bi-partisan Senate committee.
Too much inequality.
Too much racism and hate in the American culture which remains from the vestiges of the U.S Civil War.
The list goes on.
The extremes of selfishness goes on.
Too many angry people in the American culture.
Too many working poor in a country with too many greedy business execs
like the banker from Wells Fargo and Mylan's Epi-pen who just got grilled by the bi-partisan Senate committee.
Too much inequality.
Too much racism and hate in the American culture which remains from the vestiges of the U.S Civil War.
The list goes on.
The extremes of selfishness goes on.
9
I am very concerned about police shootings. The police should not be shooting anyone unless absolutely necessary.
But I think we have reached the point where it no longer matters what the actual facts are- protests are going to erupt. I am fast concluding that even if a man shot a cop and is about to shoot another there would be protests about unjust shootings / killings.
Not every shooting is equal. Every victim is not a perfect angel who did nothing wrong.
But I think we have reached the point where it no longer matters what the actual facts are- protests are going to erupt. I am fast concluding that even if a man shot a cop and is about to shoot another there would be protests about unjust shootings / killings.
Not every shooting is equal. Every victim is not a perfect angel who did nothing wrong.
9
We need to start making police unions pay reparations and fines for these incidents. Maybe if the cops get hit in the wallet over incidents like this, they will work harder to prevent them. Expecting them to do so based on decency and morality sure isn't making a dent.
8
As an aside, a word about unions for police and firefighters. Be thankful for them. Unions make these dangerous jobs more appealing by fighting for benefits and pay that would not likely be available without powerful union representation. And without strong incentives in pay and benefits, these jobs would be competing for personnel with other low paying, low benefit jobs. And who would want a dangerous job for low pay and benefits? Those you don't want in those positions. Now to your comment. Unions don't get controlled in the manner you may think - you cannot force them to act as a source of penalty.
1
(Not Mark) Since it wasn't the cops' fault, who will pay? I guess the people that actually rioted and looted? Nah, what was I thinking?
1
You can force them to do anything that is in the contract. And I would start negotiating wrongful-death reparations into police contracts if I were an official at the state or local level.
Or at least give it a try, and make them publicly explain why "the brotherhood" isn't taking responsibility for weeding out its own bad apples.
If they can collectively represent the officers when they have their paws out, the union can represent them when they do wrong, too, and accept some of the blame.
Or at least give it a try, and make them publicly explain why "the brotherhood" isn't taking responsibility for weeding out its own bad apples.
If they can collectively represent the officers when they have their paws out, the union can represent them when they do wrong, too, and accept some of the blame.
1
The protesters turned into looters in quick order. Same thing happened in Baltimore. The police in Charlotte claim the video and the eye witnesses clearly show the victim had a gun and social media witnesses claim it was a book which was not found at the scene but the gun was found. The video will tell the truth when it is released. In Baltimore, all police officers were cleared by an impartial African American judge, but the effects of the looting will live on for years to come. It looks like the same thing will happen in Charlotte.
What happens to the representatives from the BLM movement for inciting a riot and destroying a city? Nothing!
What happens to the representatives from the BLM movement for inciting a riot and destroying a city? Nothing!
28
As there are guns everywhere the police must make the assumption that people are armed until they prove otherwise. They must act accordingly to protect themselves and the rest of population.
Police lives matter. As do ours.
Police lives matter. As do ours.
12
And being shot in the back with arms raised is proof of threat
How? Why??
How? Why??
(Not Mark) That narrative has be debunked.
1
Obviously, we have a problem in the USA. Our law enforcement officers police areas that are dangerous and they need a new way of dealing with violence that doesn't involve simply over powering people who are desperate and making bad decisions.
Likewise, people in communities with high crime rates need to help protect the police by identifying those few who are causing most of the mayhem. People's unwillingness to participate in apprehending those few who are causing most of the violence are as complicit as the police.
Time for a little teamwork and trust here!
Likewise, people in communities with high crime rates need to help protect the police by identifying those few who are causing most of the mayhem. People's unwillingness to participate in apprehending those few who are causing most of the violence are as complicit as the police.
Time for a little teamwork and trust here!
18
Two more names added to a list. What in objective way to put it.
It's actually two lives which now are memories; two families which now are broken. That means four feet impaired to create its journey. Four hands stagnated, no longer instruments of work, instruments to support. Those are four eyes blinded; prevented to see the unfold of history, unable to sparkle beyond his' child's story. Minus two more mouths in this world. Mouths that never thought to ignite the symphony of fear, "hands up don't shoot", proclaimed by thousands yesterday but thousands minus two today.
It's actually two lives which now are memories; two families which now are broken. That means four feet impaired to create its journey. Four hands stagnated, no longer instruments of work, instruments to support. Those are four eyes blinded; prevented to see the unfold of history, unable to sparkle beyond his' child's story. Minus two more mouths in this world. Mouths that never thought to ignite the symphony of fear, "hands up don't shoot", proclaimed by thousands yesterday but thousands minus two today.
14
Murder by government was legalized when the US Supreme court allowed a police officer who felt threatened to use deadly force. In spite of the bill of rights the Supreme court has continuously undermined Citizens and state rights and given more power to the federal government. The political hacks appointed to the courts have a low bar to jump, viz their views on abortion. Is it any wonder the courts continue to transfer power from citizens to the government. We are clearly headed for more riots and more deaths until non white people are considered human by the police and given the same respect as white people.
1
Just like in the Civil Rights era, these protests are organized well in advance and only waiting for the right occasion. They pursue a political platform which goes far beyond stopping the killing of black people by the police (just as, back in the 60's, the desegregation of lunch counters was just a --- completely valid --- pretext).
For black people in the US, as well as for a large portion of the left, the 60's were their most glorious moment. No wonder they (and their children, who grew up hearing these stories) keep wanting to come back to it.
If they are successful, 30-50 years from now we'll read in the history books how it all came about. Of course, it will be their version only, all other points of view having been suppressed by then.
For black people in the US, as well as for a large portion of the left, the 60's were their most glorious moment. No wonder they (and their children, who grew up hearing these stories) keep wanting to come back to it.
If they are successful, 30-50 years from now we'll read in the history books how it all came about. Of course, it will be their version only, all other points of view having been suppressed by then.
1
My thoughts exactly, especially the part about "the large portion of the left."
1
The capitalist media will do anything in their power to make Trump President. That's why, when a black police officer shoots a black suspect the officer's race is de-emphasized. Our news media has apparently discovered that whipping up racial tensions sells papers/clicks, and now that they've discovered that this narrative of white police shoot "innocent" black man can make them more money they are never going to give it up, no matter what the facts of each shooting might be. The news media should never, ever be allowed to try people in the court of public opinion, and if it turns out that very few police officers are ever found guilty in courts of law, then maybe, just maybe, these shootings are far more justified than the news media and the activists believe them (want them?) to be.
Needlessly inflamed racial animosity will give us Dictator Trump. That's what the handful of super-rich families that control America's press and television want.
Needlessly inflamed racial animosity will give us Dictator Trump. That's what the handful of super-rich families that control America's press and television want.
4
The liberal media complex invented the false narrative of "hands up, don't shoot" to gin up the black communities and give them a reason to vote for an old white lady. The backers of BLM didn't think this one out. Beware the law of unintended consequences.
The police have committed many serious, tragic and illegal errors as many African Americans have been shot and killed. But the Times performs a serious disservice by continually referencing the killing of a 14 year-old in Tulsa recently by constantly saying he was brandishing a BB gun and not mentioning that the very realistic replica pistol sized BB gun was indistinguishable from a real gun, even to the point that the orange tip designed to alert people that it was a replica had been removed.
There are more than enough egregious acts of wrong-doing by the police without having to present the Tulsa killing in the same light as other tragedies in which police wrong-doing is present.
There are more than enough egregious acts of wrong-doing by the police without having to present the Tulsa killing in the same light as other tragedies in which police wrong-doing is present.
15
More violence and destruction by protesters who embrace lies, rush to judgment, and ignore facts.
The BLM movement is an outlet for criminal activity, and it is enabled by democratic politicians who exploit the black community.
I will always remember two things:
1) black protesters have assassinated2 white police officers,
2) the overwhelming majority of police shootings are not only justified, but they are not shooting blacks at a higher rates than other ethnic groups.
Our country will never move forward until the black community stops lying and democrats stop slandering police.
The BLM movement is an outlet for criminal activity, and it is enabled by democratic politicians who exploit the black community.
I will always remember two things:
1) black protesters have assassinated2 white police officers,
2) the overwhelming majority of police shootings are not only justified, but they are not shooting blacks at a higher rates than other ethnic groups.
Our country will never move forward until the black community stops lying and democrats stop slandering police.
16
I watched the NYT morph overnight from the quick reporting that a man had been killed in a civilian on civilian killing to him not being dead, but he was shot. Why is it unacceptable for people of color to protest and to be outraged at such insane killings of black men who were not committing any crime: trying to get help for a disabled car and sitting in a car waiting for a child to come home from school? Is this America in 2016? As a result, African-American youth among others come out onto the streets. The police show their force. Its a confrontation and then a showdown. Do they have psychologists working in these police departments? A show of force by police when the protest is out of concern for people being killed by police for nothing or apparently because they were black and police thus felt "threatened" will only escalate a situation. The police look controlled and the protesters look out of control. Why isn't it understood that there is fear in the African-American community of police that keep killing people of color and it is never perceived as a crime. How does killing people who are not committing a crime being reviewed if the change that needs to happen obviously is not? How many times is it expected that this can continue and the uproar in the street not continue and grow? One word: accountability. It's not happening. It appears that there are some people that should not be police. Some don't have the ability to recognize that sitting in a car is not a crime.
1
It astonishes me how many people can not even fathom the grief of black people. It Is equally astonishing how those same people will bend over backwards to justify each and every gun less death, and side without question with each and every officer. (Physicians take an oath to do no harm, but they are allowed to be sued every day for wrongful deaths.). The cop as judge, jury and executioner is not in our constitution for people of any color, by people of any color. As a so called Christian nation, it also defies the rule of God. That's the bottom line.
1
This beautiful city is being transformed into a war zone and I feel so sorry for the residents of Charlotte. This will further divide the races and cause much tension and hate. We must wait to see and hear the facts before we come to any conclusion as to whom is to blame. Two blacks have been seriously injured and many more police officers have been hurt. This is so senseless and unnecessary in a civilized nation like ours. Looting has occurred and bottles have been thrown which is outrageous. It is a miracle that there has not been more violence and serious injuries. Let's hope this madness stops and the city can get back to normal before the city is totally destroyed.
4
Wow I hadn't checked in on this for a few hours. Charlotte is really melting down. A man is dead solely because of these riots.
I think it's time for the Mayor to impose a curfew for a few days, everyone must remain in their home overnight. The insane riots are happening overnight, probably because looting is best done in darkness.
Congratulations are due to the police force for keeping the death toll down so far. It should be obvious to anyone who takes a passing glance at Syria, Afghanistan, Kashmir, and so on, that if the cops had fired live rounds into the crowd, there would be a lot more dead.
But this insanity of the "protests" turning into destructive, deadly riots has to be stopped. If the citizens want to have a protest, they can register it in a public area during daylight hours and do their best to be non-violent. If they can't manage that, they can't protest for now, I think. The mayhem is too much of an inevitable and negative outcome.
I think it's time for the Mayor to impose a curfew for a few days, everyone must remain in their home overnight. The insane riots are happening overnight, probably because looting is best done in darkness.
Congratulations are due to the police force for keeping the death toll down so far. It should be obvious to anyone who takes a passing glance at Syria, Afghanistan, Kashmir, and so on, that if the cops had fired live rounds into the crowd, there would be a lot more dead.
But this insanity of the "protests" turning into destructive, deadly riots has to be stopped. If the citizens want to have a protest, they can register it in a public area during daylight hours and do their best to be non-violent. If they can't manage that, they can't protest for now, I think. The mayhem is too much of an inevitable and negative outcome.
7
This common tragic scenario is out of control. It is symptomatic of a divided society filled with racism and anger. And it will only get worse if that is possible, if Trump gets elected. His supporters have shown a potential for violence, and his incendiary rhetoric only escalates an already polarized America. He is putting the citizens of our country in harms way. His solutions are facile and clueless, and only placate his supporters who are blinded by his bromides. Trump will destroy the decent fabric and history of our nation. He is a ruthless and very disturbed dictator to be.
2
Some law enforcement officers obviously believe that failure to obey a command is a capital offense, that they then have a 007 license. It's imperative that police departments, DA's, judges and juries emphatically teach that they do not. They must warn that all claims of feeling threatened and having no other recourse will not be routinely accepted, but examined with great scrutiny, and prosecuted if false.
1
We now learn that in 2005 Scott was sentenced to seven years in prison in Texas for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. His time in prison ended a mere five years ago in 2011. Are not ex-felons prohibited from owning guns? Maybe thinking that the police were coming after him for that offense might explain his actions. The most recent assertion that he was in possession of an illegal drug isn't unreasonable when his background is considered. Sure an ex-con can be a "family man" as he is being described, but his alleged behavior isn't quite as out of character as it first seemed. It is a sad story, but not as surprising as it was first presented.
9
A repeat of Ferguson, and we all know how that turned out. It's clear that a lot of the protesters were intent on causing havoc and destruction in NC, nothing to do with BLM, or their agenda, which is questionable at best. Some actually thrive on civil unrest, and use the shootings as an excuse., refusing to acknowledge the evidence to the contrary. At this point, local authorities nationwide may have to consider banning all public gatherings for protest purposes, since holding a peaceful demonstration or rally is not in the vocabulary of thugs and troublemakers.
7
An SFSU study in 1989 looked into the careers that severe bullies choose as adults.
1 police
2 military
3 prison guards
4 mental hospital attendants
5 nursing home attendants
Add to this the overt vicious racism most police share and you get the picture. Before george wallace bravely quit being a violent racist and publically begged forgiveness at a conference of the NAACP...when ran for president was the favourite of 78% of cops...
In england-scotland-wales since 1900 a total 98 citizens have been killed by police. Our trigger-happy coppers now kill that many every month! We're again on target to see last year's figure of 1147 dead at the hands of terrifically racist bullies wearing blue!
This is nearing civil war, a war the blacks and their supporters cannot win. The fascists would win and declare martial law. Here are suggestions for solutions which under no circumstance would the cops or any level of government implement.
Lie detector tests of long and intensive nature to weed out the racists and the violent. Make metal bullets illegal for officers, rubber only. Unless there is evidence on cams that a subject is truly threatening lives, officers are only allowed to shoot at legs and feet. Duh.
Cops apparently are in a contest to see who can get the most notches on their pistol-grip...as such the country is now reaping what it has always sewn...all the way back to when lynchings of untried blacks was a commonplace entertainment for grinning hicks...
1 police
2 military
3 prison guards
4 mental hospital attendants
5 nursing home attendants
Add to this the overt vicious racism most police share and you get the picture. Before george wallace bravely quit being a violent racist and publically begged forgiveness at a conference of the NAACP...when ran for president was the favourite of 78% of cops...
In england-scotland-wales since 1900 a total 98 citizens have been killed by police. Our trigger-happy coppers now kill that many every month! We're again on target to see last year's figure of 1147 dead at the hands of terrifically racist bullies wearing blue!
This is nearing civil war, a war the blacks and their supporters cannot win. The fascists would win and declare martial law. Here are suggestions for solutions which under no circumstance would the cops or any level of government implement.
Lie detector tests of long and intensive nature to weed out the racists and the violent. Make metal bullets illegal for officers, rubber only. Unless there is evidence on cams that a subject is truly threatening lives, officers are only allowed to shoot at legs and feet. Duh.
Cops apparently are in a contest to see who can get the most notches on their pistol-grip...as such the country is now reaping what it has always sewn...all the way back to when lynchings of untried blacks was a commonplace entertainment for grinning hicks...
Shooting at arms and legs may work on TV but in the real world it's nonsensical, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
Disarm the Police? If you disarm the criminals first that might work, good luck!
Disarm the Police? If you disarm the criminals first that might work, good luck!
1
Until the police are democratically elected, instantly recallable and drawn from not more than 2 miles outside the area they patrol, they will continue to be an occupying army to protect the rich from everyone else, when I say the rich, I mean the local McDonald's, the corporate bank chain, the corporate drug store, etc that exist in the ghetto to exploit its labor and drain its wealth. This will never happen under capitalism because the police have been tasked with controlling the working class since their invention in the early 19th century, society will have to decide between capitalism and democracy, it can not choose both
1
Yes, that's realistic. Drawing police from within two miles of a patrol area? You'd find no police. And you can't staff and run an organization responsible for a city's policing like that. If you want more local people on the force, have them apply.
2
The rioting that occurred is so senseless as the people are only depriving themselves of stores and vital services to the community. They are hurting business owners who are totally innocent and may decide to leave the neighborhood. What will the citizens do then when they have no where fo shop? These thieves are making a bad situation worse and are only interested in getting something for nothing. They are using this unfortunate situation to enrich themselves with products that they stole. They should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
7
We must not fall into blaming African Americans. There are good and rotten people of every skin color, every nationality and every religion. When we elect a smart, decent African American President, and several white, male, Republican Congressman openly state they decided on the night of Obama's first inauguration, that they will work to defeat him? Mitch McConnell, Eric Cantor and others, that was racism. Lets call it what it is. When Donald John Trump perpetrates the birther issue, that is racism. We don't need voices like that getting public media space. Theirs are the voices of cowards and people of petty-ness. What America needs are people of much larger stature: those who can bring opposing sides together to work on solutions, who work for the common good and who speak and act with respect.
In our current climate of charged emotion, the last thing we should be doing is electing a man like Donald Trump, a man who divides not just our nation with his ugly words, but has begun to divide our world. He stands for everything we do not need right now. Let us all - every single one - practice words and actions of peace.
In our current climate of charged emotion, the last thing we should be doing is electing a man like Donald Trump, a man who divides not just our nation with his ugly words, but has begun to divide our world. He stands for everything we do not need right now. Let us all - every single one - practice words and actions of peace.
1
There is no convincing evidence that the police action here was unjustified or racially motivated. We simply don't know. We do, however, know that the reaction of the black and other communities is visceral and results at least in part from justified rage at the mass incarceration of underclass males for profit. This practice was adopted during Bill Clinton's presidency and would be continued by Hillary Clinton. The origin of these chickens is well understood and they are coming home to roost.
3
Mass incarceration of underclass males -- for crimes, you understand that, right?
And you're concern trolling against Hillary. Nonsense.
And you're concern trolling against Hillary. Nonsense.
This is yet another very sad day for America as we deal yet again with our troubled legacy of slavery and racism. Another African-American man is dead at the hands of the police in what seems like an unending nightmare of 21st century lynching. We seem to be teetering on the brink of urban riots not seen since the late 1960's when the Kerner Commission warned that America was“moving toward two societies, one black, one white—separate and unequal.” With too many African-Americans trapped in poverty in inner cities, we are seeing the consequence of the "apartheid" system the Kerner Commission warned of. Poorly-trained police have become the wardens of these economic ghettos and their hair-trigger enforcement has resulted in a wave of violence now visible to all (ironically, except in Charlotte and soon in all of North Carolina) in videos. We need leaders who can solve problems not continue to ignore them or exacerbate them with even more punitive forms of "racial profiling" like "stop-and-frisk" laws and "open carry" gun laws. We need a national standard for police training, as they have in England, both in de-escalating situations involving African-Americans and frequent retraining. We need to have psychologists involved who have shown how racial prejudice can be reduced through simple interventions to reduce the violence based on racial stereotypes. We must as former President Jimmy Carter called for the other day with respect to Syria, "Stop the killing."
Don't get carried away. Policing is a far cry from lynching. There are some nuances.
There is another way, you just have to want to achieve it, the English are no more or no less violent than Americans.
Officers discharged firearms in six incidents last year, figures for 2015 for England and Wales show. The number of police operations involving armed officers fell slightly to 14,666 last year, while officers fired their guns in six incidents – up four from the previous 12 months, official figures show.
The Home Office figure reveal there were 5,647 police officers in England and Wales authorised to use guns in March 2015, a fall of 217 on the previous year.
The number authorised to use firearms represents just over 5% of all officers.
The statistics show that the number of police operations involving armed officers has declined from a peak of 23,181 in 2009 to the latest figure of 14,666, down from 14,864 in 2014. The decline has coincided with a large fall in gun crime over the same period, with firearms offences down from 15,000 to 5,000.
Officers discharged firearms in six incidents last year, figures for 2015 for England and Wales show. The number of police operations involving armed officers fell slightly to 14,666 last year, while officers fired their guns in six incidents – up four from the previous 12 months, official figures show.
The Home Office figure reveal there were 5,647 police officers in England and Wales authorised to use guns in March 2015, a fall of 217 on the previous year.
The number authorised to use firearms represents just over 5% of all officers.
The statistics show that the number of police operations involving armed officers has declined from a peak of 23,181 in 2009 to the latest figure of 14,666, down from 14,864 in 2014. The decline has coincided with a large fall in gun crime over the same period, with firearms offences down from 15,000 to 5,000.
1
Why are tasers not used more often? A police officer's job is extremely difficult and I truly respect that. But can't a taser be used in questionable circumstances and reserve deadly force only for those definite cases? I would think the use of tasers would also make apprehending people safer for our officers as well. I have seen too many videos where a taser seemed entirely appropriate (Terence Cutcher). In other cases I have seen officers go above and beyond to protect the lives of violent offenders where deadly force seemed justified in my opinion, but they restrained themselves and apprehended the offender without deadly force which is truly heroic. I support BLM and our officers. Maybe technology can make everyone safer and dial back this violence.
A sensible proposal for a halfway point between gun rights lobbyists and gun control advocates: treat guns EXACTLY as we do automobiles. This means:
-- Training and a rigorous test before ownership. The test must set a high bar for the safe operation and storage of the firearm. Fail the test and you must take it again until you meet the required standard.
-- On passing the test: a license that must be produced if requested by a law enforcement agent and before any purchase of a firearm from an official outlet.
-- Penalties for the improper and unsafe operation of your firearm (for example, bearing firearm where open-carry laws do not prevail, or when "under the influence"). If penalties accrue beyond a certain level, license is revoked for a specific period of time.
-- Use your firearm for any form of illegal activity (including intimidation), and your license is revoked indefinitely.
-- Aggressively channel funds and legislation (with the mandated cooperation of social media sites and online marketplaces) toward clamping down on online gun sales and straw purchases.
-- All police officers should be trained to shoot to disarm, not to kill.
Note: I give my ideas above because comments seem to have headed toward gun control and gun ownership issues in general. They do not imply that I believe Keith L. Scott held a gun in the moments before his shooting. I have no idea, and do not consider it relevant: he should not have been shot to death, either way. Disarm, don't kill.
-- Training and a rigorous test before ownership. The test must set a high bar for the safe operation and storage of the firearm. Fail the test and you must take it again until you meet the required standard.
-- On passing the test: a license that must be produced if requested by a law enforcement agent and before any purchase of a firearm from an official outlet.
-- Penalties for the improper and unsafe operation of your firearm (for example, bearing firearm where open-carry laws do not prevail, or when "under the influence"). If penalties accrue beyond a certain level, license is revoked for a specific period of time.
-- Use your firearm for any form of illegal activity (including intimidation), and your license is revoked indefinitely.
-- Aggressively channel funds and legislation (with the mandated cooperation of social media sites and online marketplaces) toward clamping down on online gun sales and straw purchases.
-- All police officers should be trained to shoot to disarm, not to kill.
Note: I give my ideas above because comments seem to have headed toward gun control and gun ownership issues in general. They do not imply that I believe Keith L. Scott held a gun in the moments before his shooting. I have no idea, and do not consider it relevant: he should not have been shot to death, either way. Disarm, don't kill.
2
To put this in some historical context, it has been twenty-five years since Rodney King's beating was videotaped by a bystander, which subsequently led to the acquittal of the four officers charged which excessive force, resulting in the Los Angeles riots that claimed 55 lives and untold property destruction and looting.
Since that time, that narrative of Black men being beaten or shot at the hands of law enforcement has not changed. The steady drum beat of men being shot with their hands up, their hands down, children holding toy guns, men holding toy trucks, men reaching for their wallets, men saying the right thing, men saying the wrong thing - it all matters not. The one thing they all have in common is that they are Black. Some are children. Some are grown men. Some are just young boys walking home. For Black Americans, the names and places are interchangeable, but the story remains the same.
The Rodney King episode and the criminal trial that followed was instructive for Black American's because it revealed that no matter what the truth was, it simply did not matter - justice could not be had, no matter the circumstance.
The retribution being collected in Charlotte might seem petty, full of anger, and rage, but it is borne of a belief that no matter what a Black man says or does, no matter what anyone sees, and whether or not it is even recorded a thousand times from a thousand vantage points, the possibility for justice is not possible.
You might riot, too.
Since that time, that narrative of Black men being beaten or shot at the hands of law enforcement has not changed. The steady drum beat of men being shot with their hands up, their hands down, children holding toy guns, men holding toy trucks, men reaching for their wallets, men saying the right thing, men saying the wrong thing - it all matters not. The one thing they all have in common is that they are Black. Some are children. Some are grown men. Some are just young boys walking home. For Black Americans, the names and places are interchangeable, but the story remains the same.
The Rodney King episode and the criminal trial that followed was instructive for Black American's because it revealed that no matter what the truth was, it simply did not matter - justice could not be had, no matter the circumstance.
The retribution being collected in Charlotte might seem petty, full of anger, and rage, but it is borne of a belief that no matter what a Black man says or does, no matter what anyone sees, and whether or not it is even recorded a thousand times from a thousand vantage points, the possibility for justice is not possible.
You might riot, too.
3
Riots are an ugly thing and all too frequent reaction to a police shooting - justifiable or not - which too often plays out in black communities across America. The illogical riots - basically adding to the destructiveness and undesirability of where poor blacks live - is exemplified in the extreme poverty, poor economic prospects, and failed social cohesion throughout and common within these communities. Addressing those fundamental issues should be a prime objective of the next president and congress.
Start with the huge - ne: gigantic - economic disparity allowed - celebrated - evident in the US. How anyone, foe example, cannot react with disgust at learning from this week's Times, that Sheldon Adelson is worth $32 billion while millions of fellow citizens exist only by food stamps is beyond me. Something is terribly wrong when a single individual accumulates colossal wealth (and often pays a puny tax rate) - and it isn't Colin taking a knee at the national anthem. Why should blacks or whites living in desperate situations feel compelled to salute a flag representing a nation in which the Sheldon Adelsons get to fifty rich excess while they daily struggle? What a country! Yeah - what a country.
Start with the huge - ne: gigantic - economic disparity allowed - celebrated - evident in the US. How anyone, foe example, cannot react with disgust at learning from this week's Times, that Sheldon Adelson is worth $32 billion while millions of fellow citizens exist only by food stamps is beyond me. Something is terribly wrong when a single individual accumulates colossal wealth (and often pays a puny tax rate) - and it isn't Colin taking a knee at the national anthem. Why should blacks or whites living in desperate situations feel compelled to salute a flag representing a nation in which the Sheldon Adelsons get to fifty rich excess while they daily struggle? What a country! Yeah - what a country.
2
I think it would be helpful for people to try to be more fair-minded when there is a police shooting. Two fundamental principles of criminal law are that people are deemed innocent until proven guilty and are to be afforded due process. These protections also apply to police officers involved in a shooting. To prejudge an officer without regard to these principles is prejudice. It is also harmful to the public at large.
3
How illuminating that we have a growing population of aggrieved inner city minority residents prone to violent protest and rioting while a minority Presdient wields imperial powers for eight years. Depending on your mind's workings this is either ironic, depressingly shocking, schadenfreud, predictable, or unrelated. What these events are not are harbingers of positive change. The poor and the desperate, whether self-inflicted or episodic, are always with us and in this country that cohort is growing thanks to our elite money changers. The total and complete absence of any sense of familial security and instruction plagues many segments of inner city residents and this too is a growing cohort, thanks to decades of liberal activism denegrating familial priority and norms of behavior. These trends have been underway for decades but made worse by the smug, self-satisfied, mouthy White House crowd full of "community activists" but empty of actual action on these fronts. The country voted for a man of words; men of action are what's needed, not stumbling, coughing dissembling wonks in waistcoats.
5
I grew up in the '60s and early '70s, a white middle class kid, with the teachin and sense that MLK, Jr. and others were heroic figures. As I got older and started to read history I learned about other magnificent men and women, throughout our history and in other countries, many unknown but to a few, who gave their lives, sometimes literally, to equal rights and fair play.
But, now, I couldn't be more disgusted by the "protesters," whose narratives seem to be based on lies and recriminations, the seeming desire to go back to a time where only their skin color matters and the quality of character matters not. They celebrate most, not those tragic cases like Eric Garner, but those who are least deserving of martyrdom like Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown. The facts do not matter, only the skin color of the person shot. The media is largely to blame for ignoring the incipient fascism of BLM, but so is the president, who often gives them support regardless of facts, and so called leaders. Victimization and separationism are their watch words. Many people say nothing because no one wants to be branded a racist, or they feel shame for centuries of oppression, as if a blood libel existed based on skin color.
The protesters hurt the poor most, destroy their communities, reduce the police presence that protects them and the children, and drown out the legitimate grievances which always exist and the eternal need for reform.
MLK, Jr. would be spinning in his grave.
But, now, I couldn't be more disgusted by the "protesters," whose narratives seem to be based on lies and recriminations, the seeming desire to go back to a time where only their skin color matters and the quality of character matters not. They celebrate most, not those tragic cases like Eric Garner, but those who are least deserving of martyrdom like Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown. The facts do not matter, only the skin color of the person shot. The media is largely to blame for ignoring the incipient fascism of BLM, but so is the president, who often gives them support regardless of facts, and so called leaders. Victimization and separationism are their watch words. Many people say nothing because no one wants to be branded a racist, or they feel shame for centuries of oppression, as if a blood libel existed based on skin color.
The protesters hurt the poor most, destroy their communities, reduce the police presence that protects them and the children, and drown out the legitimate grievances which always exist and the eternal need for reform.
MLK, Jr. would be spinning in his grave.
11
I was with you until Trayvon Martin. MIchael Brown may have instigated his fate, but Trayvon Martin? The kid was walking along minding his own business armed with nothing but a bag of candy.
The view from the Ivory Tower must be nice.
Living in a transitional neighborhood which is 2 blocks from Section 8, my perspective of this is a lot different, since I see 80% low-income African Americans, mostly men, loitering around the city.
I often ask myself, why are the loiterers not at work, why are there 70+ African men sitting on the public computers watching YouTube/Facebook, when this is billed by liberals as 'access to employment opportunities'? Why do my stereotypes of African Americans have to be confirmed every other block? They do a massive disservice to their own movement.
When we shot an unarmed black man here, the city was ready to riot, and, conversely, I was ready to defend my property. Of course, destroying everything is cheered on in these comments - unless it is your community. The years-lasting damage to business and investment is OK to liberals, as long as social justice is achieved. Everyone wants to throw money at causes related to poverty, until one goes and looks at how the dollars are being utilized.
The federal crime stats do not have to be posted here - we know without saying and it is billed as 'Racist'.
Living in a transitional neighborhood which is 2 blocks from Section 8, my perspective of this is a lot different, since I see 80% low-income African Americans, mostly men, loitering around the city.
I often ask myself, why are the loiterers not at work, why are there 70+ African men sitting on the public computers watching YouTube/Facebook, when this is billed by liberals as 'access to employment opportunities'? Why do my stereotypes of African Americans have to be confirmed every other block? They do a massive disservice to their own movement.
When we shot an unarmed black man here, the city was ready to riot, and, conversely, I was ready to defend my property. Of course, destroying everything is cheered on in these comments - unless it is your community. The years-lasting damage to business and investment is OK to liberals, as long as social justice is achieved. Everyone wants to throw money at causes related to poverty, until one goes and looks at how the dollars are being utilized.
The federal crime stats do not have to be posted here - we know without saying and it is billed as 'Racist'.
12
I lived in Charlotte which remains enmeshed in systemic race issues. The commitment of the established political, business and religous elites has always been suspect. That lack of will is now on our TV. Chronic issues of every indice from high incarceration rates to inadequate public education have made this nearly insoluble. This is not new.
In 1990, a former black mayor of Charlotte, Harvey Gantt, ran against Senator Jesse Helms. In a campaign marked by overt racism, Helms won. In 1989, I was in Richmond County, 90 miles from Charlotte. On the community bulletin board was a poster promoting the Klan chapter.
After the Charleston killings that raised to boiling the long simmering debate about Confederate memorials, the Legislature passed a law restricting cities from moving Confederate memorials. It was signed by Gov. McCrory, former mayor of Charlotte. McCrory was lobbied by Civil Rights groups to veto. He ignored those pleas in disingenuously claiming the NC law bore no relationship to the backlash against Confederate memorials.
The US Fourth Circuit struck down voting laws enacted by the legislature and signed by McCrory holding they were enacted with the express intent to suppress African American voting.
Given this context, am I surprised at the terrible riot that has moved out of the "ghetto" into "Uptown", the heart of the most significant financial center outside of Wall Street?
No. I'm only surprised it didn't happen 20 years ago.
In 1990, a former black mayor of Charlotte, Harvey Gantt, ran against Senator Jesse Helms. In a campaign marked by overt racism, Helms won. In 1989, I was in Richmond County, 90 miles from Charlotte. On the community bulletin board was a poster promoting the Klan chapter.
After the Charleston killings that raised to boiling the long simmering debate about Confederate memorials, the Legislature passed a law restricting cities from moving Confederate memorials. It was signed by Gov. McCrory, former mayor of Charlotte. McCrory was lobbied by Civil Rights groups to veto. He ignored those pleas in disingenuously claiming the NC law bore no relationship to the backlash against Confederate memorials.
The US Fourth Circuit struck down voting laws enacted by the legislature and signed by McCrory holding they were enacted with the express intent to suppress African American voting.
Given this context, am I surprised at the terrible riot that has moved out of the "ghetto" into "Uptown", the heart of the most significant financial center outside of Wall Street?
No. I'm only surprised it didn't happen 20 years ago.
38
Although I am progressive and voted for Obama twice, it's unfortunate that as sitting President he hasn't done much to improve the relation between the police and the communities of the neglected. I really hoped that this presidency would usher us into a new chapter on race relations in America, but it seems it just has worsened, though ubiquitous technologies such as smartphones and body cams have may have brought this issue out more into daylight.
One thing is clear, America today is in no way close to solving the race issue, as is shown by the first African-American president. Politicians will not change the race landscape much, if not exacerbate it. Nothing will change the mind-set of white America, or much of the other races in America - black will always be black. I know because I grew up in a family of that other race, always looking down on the blacks.
Blacks need also to understand that the police, though most of them are really trying to help, are not their real enemy. It's the system and the way the economic society has formed that is the real enemy of the black America. The current economic system has turn the police against the blacks, masking the real enemy.
One thing is clear, America today is in no way close to solving the race issue, as is shown by the first African-American president. Politicians will not change the race landscape much, if not exacerbate it. Nothing will change the mind-set of white America, or much of the other races in America - black will always be black. I know because I grew up in a family of that other race, always looking down on the blacks.
Blacks need also to understand that the police, though most of them are really trying to help, are not their real enemy. It's the system and the way the economic society has formed that is the real enemy of the black America. The current economic system has turn the police against the blacks, masking the real enemy.
11
"Blacks need also to understand that the police, though most of them are really trying to help, are not their real enemy. It's the system and the way the economic society has formed that is the real enemy of the black America."
Spoken by a white person.
Who are you to say what people of color in this country should think, feel, or understand? It's the continued invalidation of black voices through comments like yours that simply reinforce how far this nation has NOT come when it comes to giving equal weight to violence that keeps happening against persons of color at the hands of law enforcement, time and time again.
Spoken by a white person.
Who are you to say what people of color in this country should think, feel, or understand? It's the continued invalidation of black voices through comments like yours that simply reinforce how far this nation has NOT come when it comes to giving equal weight to violence that keeps happening against persons of color at the hands of law enforcement, time and time again.
The following sentence makes no sense: "The current economic system had turn[ed] the police against the blacks"
Wrong to criticize Obama for "not doing more" as if he alone could fix this complex and complicated issue and chose not to.
And please do not use the term "white American mindset" - what an incredibly insensitive broad brush with which to paint. I refuse to accept that there is a 'white American mindset' that applies to all white Americans when it ones to race.
And please do not use the term "white American mindset" - what an incredibly insensitive broad brush with which to paint. I refuse to accept that there is a 'white American mindset' that applies to all white Americans when it ones to race.
The Charlotte case seems to be surrounded with the lack of information if not outright misinformation.
The police chief said a gun was retrieved but no further elaboration was given while the witness and family of the killed disputed that. That seems to be the crux of the matter.
Additionally, what kind of gun law is there in North Carolina warrants a debate. Even if the victim had a gun but was legal, then what? You dance with the devil but complain the devil?
Finally, considering Gov. Pat McCrory has a string of setbacks recently, is he using this as a way to drum up the fear votes? Besides calling in the national guards, he seems to be aloof about the chaos. In the end, he is as accountable
The police chief said a gun was retrieved but no further elaboration was given while the witness and family of the killed disputed that. That seems to be the crux of the matter.
Additionally, what kind of gun law is there in North Carolina warrants a debate. Even if the victim had a gun but was legal, then what? You dance with the devil but complain the devil?
Finally, considering Gov. Pat McCrory has a string of setbacks recently, is he using this as a way to drum up the fear votes? Besides calling in the national guards, he seems to be aloof about the chaos. In the end, he is as accountable
6
I guess whenever a black man is shot by the police it is a racial matter no matter what the race of the policeman. No need for any evidence as to why the person was shot.
26
No matter what the person's skin color, it's a sad/unfortunate day when anyone is shot by a cop . . . or vice versa. What is it with America's sick, self-destructive obsession with guns and paramilitary police forces? Guns have one purposes: to kill. They have no place in a civilized society, especially one in which there's supposed to be the rule of law and "Government by the people, for the people."
2
"North Carolina is generally considered a permissive state for firearms owners, with no state-imposed restrictions on "assault weapons", no magazine capacity restrictions, no caliber restrictions, and few restrictions on the open carrying of firearms. North Carolina maintains concealed carry reciprocity with all other states"
No one has confirmed or proved so far that this black man who was shot and killed carried a gun or a book. Even if he had carried a gun , he had the right to do so for self protection under the law. Does the Second Amendment apply to only the white people and not far the blacks, Mexicans and Muslims? Only Donald trump can answer that question, some one should ask him at the debate. America is becoming a very violent country. It is time for this country to amend the Second Amendment or to get rid of it totally. The police should demand that all guns are removed from all ordinary citizens, that is for their own protection.Only the law enforcement agencies should be allowed to carry guns just like rest of the civilized world . That will protect all citizens including the tourists from abroad who are afraid to visit this beautiful country because of the violent shooting incidents happening so frequently.
No one has confirmed or proved so far that this black man who was shot and killed carried a gun or a book. Even if he had carried a gun , he had the right to do so for self protection under the law. Does the Second Amendment apply to only the white people and not far the blacks, Mexicans and Muslims? Only Donald trump can answer that question, some one should ask him at the debate. America is becoming a very violent country. It is time for this country to amend the Second Amendment or to get rid of it totally. The police should demand that all guns are removed from all ordinary citizens, that is for their own protection.Only the law enforcement agencies should be allowed to carry guns just like rest of the civilized world . That will protect all citizens including the tourists from abroad who are afraid to visit this beautiful country because of the violent shooting incidents happening so frequently.
25
The incalculable harm such recurring incidents of the Black targeted police shootings are inflicting on the social fibre of America is beyond imagination, specially when considered against the violent gun culture that's sustained through the irresponsible interpretation of the US constitution.
78
Sir:
There are no "black targeted police shootings." There are suspect-targeted police shootings. This latest shooting in Charlotte was not a white officer shooting an unarmed, innocent black man. It was a black officer shooting an armed suspect with a long history of violence. Far as we know, at least. As for the gun culture, you are absolutely right, it is the result of a variety of factors including the irresponsible interpretation of the constitution. But the gun culture exists all over the US, and yet, violence is worse - far, far worse - in urbanized neighborhoods where the majority population is black, and poor. We are seeing rising levels of violence and dysfunction in poor white neighborhoods too. Meanwhile, we have a black president, a strong black professional class, black elected public officials all over, and black cultural contribution that help to define Anerica in a very positive way around the world. What you are witnessing now, sir, is competing political narratives, with each - progressive and conservative - portraying their own grim state of affairs that are cartoonish exaggerations of the far more nuanced, and more difficult to solve, problematic truth.
There are no "black targeted police shootings." There are suspect-targeted police shootings. This latest shooting in Charlotte was not a white officer shooting an unarmed, innocent black man. It was a black officer shooting an armed suspect with a long history of violence. Far as we know, at least. As for the gun culture, you are absolutely right, it is the result of a variety of factors including the irresponsible interpretation of the constitution. But the gun culture exists all over the US, and yet, violence is worse - far, far worse - in urbanized neighborhoods where the majority population is black, and poor. We are seeing rising levels of violence and dysfunction in poor white neighborhoods too. Meanwhile, we have a black president, a strong black professional class, black elected public officials all over, and black cultural contribution that help to define Anerica in a very positive way around the world. What you are witnessing now, sir, is competing political narratives, with each - progressive and conservative - portraying their own grim state of affairs that are cartoonish exaggerations of the far more nuanced, and more difficult to solve, problematic truth.
6
I'm not a supporter of guns, but if you believe people need to have them as their right to bear arms, or for personal protection, they also need to feel that they are unjustified to pull him out after every perceived injustice. The fact is North Carolina has a terrible reputation for discriminating against minorities through legislation affecting voters rights and even people's bathroom privileges. Voters need to decide what kind of society they want to live in, and forge their institutions, including police forces, in that image. Do they want to live in a world of armed conflict? Right now it appears they are reaping what they have sown. If you deny people basic human dignity and give everyone guns isn't the result predictable?
Do unto others...or they will do unto you.
Do unto others...or they will do unto you.
1
Grant Van Inderstine & Mar, I'm thankful to both of you for putting things in perspective and thereby correcting the perception about the social reality in changing America.
With all the guns in circulation, open or hidden, it's at least understandable that police are jittery. They are seeing weapons everywhere, and that makes virtually every confrontation potentially lethal.
What kind of training are they receiving? Has it changed as guns have become more commonplace? And why is it that so many encounters end in someone being killed, instead of wounded, but expected to survive.
For society to function, we need to clearly examine these encounters and begin to analyze why they so often escalate into violence and death, especially when black men and boys are the ones dead.
What kind of training are they receiving? Has it changed as guns have become more commonplace? And why is it that so many encounters end in someone being killed, instead of wounded, but expected to survive.
For society to function, we need to clearly examine these encounters and begin to analyze why they so often escalate into violence and death, especially when black men and boys are the ones dead.
40
The police generally back the War on Drugs. If they were jittery about all the guns on the street, they would support a drug policy that doesn't rely on an armed war to stop substance abuse and doesn't empower armed gangs the way Alcohol Prohibition empowered Al Capone and his ilk.
The white guys or guys that wave their guns, like the horde of bikers who shot atthe police, are not going to be killed. Dylan that shot up a church either. The list is endless. Carrying a gun while black, or looking at one in a Walmart should not be a capitol offence.
1
"Protest Tourists"
Protest tourists
Acting likes it's a parade
Protest tourists
Just simply standing in the way
Protest tourists
Not there to litigate a brief
Protest tourists
Taking pictures of someone else's grief
Protest tourists
Hoping excitement starts again
Protest tourists
Just wanting to get on CNN
Protest tourists
Acting likes it's a parade
Protest tourists
Just simply standing in the way
Protest tourists
Not there to litigate a brief
Protest tourists
Taking pictures of someone else's grief
Protest tourists
Hoping excitement starts again
Protest tourists
Just wanting to get on CNN
49
"To date, law enforcement officials have fatally shot 702 people this year, 163 of them black men, according to a Washington Post database tracking fatal police shootings."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/2016/09/21/cba5221c-800b-11e6-8d...
Did you hear about other 539 shootings?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/2016/09/21/cba5221c-800b-11e6-8d...
Did you hear about other 539 shootings?
139
No. I'm sure there is a good reason at least in someone's mind.
The killing of black civilians by police officers is symptomatic of something that is happening across the nation to our police departments. They are becoming less and less about protecting citizens and mire a more about protecting the police and those in power. That means that all citizens regardless of their race are at risk.
In order to have a full conversation about this problem we the people need to know the full story. It is time to get our police departments back to being peace officers instead of an occupying force.
The killing of black civilians by police officers is symptomatic of something that is happening across the nation to our police departments. They are becoming less and less about protecting citizens and mire a more about protecting the police and those in power. That means that all citizens regardless of their race are at risk.
In order to have a full conversation about this problem we the people need to know the full story. It is time to get our police departments back to being peace officers instead of an occupying force.
Indeed, I am curious : why are the police getting so much static from one-albeit, underserved and historically denigrated and long time descriminated against group, lyet, the other 75% seem perfectly happy to be shot or killed even.
It would bother me, even though I might not identify myself as a member of a group historically targed.
The one face remains: that black folks in America epresent no more, perjhaps less than 11% of the population but seem to accrue near 25% of the shootings.
The one thing which might aid in controlling the nut-gone craziness of this would be to take away the guns from patrolling police in situations where they have no idea what they are responding to. In Britain
police must ask for and check out guns and remain supervised in their use. Indeed-Britain hasn't the immense , overpowered gun culture we do-but this didn't stop them from preventing the Germans from daring to even try and invade the islands in 1939-40. The government easily spread out excellent old Great War 30-06 military rifles. Just waiting, packed in petroleum jelly goo- for the next iteration of "German Megalomaniac Breakout fever".
Did US cops have to rely on wits instead of bullets, a different kind of police civilian relationship might develop . They could keep their weapons in the back but to resort to guns first should be seens as a black-mark on any cops record-Shoot people like that once, and you're on probation. Do it twice and you become a traffic cop: permanently.
It would bother me, even though I might not identify myself as a member of a group historically targed.
The one face remains: that black folks in America epresent no more, perjhaps less than 11% of the population but seem to accrue near 25% of the shootings.
The one thing which might aid in controlling the nut-gone craziness of this would be to take away the guns from patrolling police in situations where they have no idea what they are responding to. In Britain
police must ask for and check out guns and remain supervised in their use. Indeed-Britain hasn't the immense , overpowered gun culture we do-but this didn't stop them from preventing the Germans from daring to even try and invade the islands in 1939-40. The government easily spread out excellent old Great War 30-06 military rifles. Just waiting, packed in petroleum jelly goo- for the next iteration of "German Megalomaniac Breakout fever".
Did US cops have to rely on wits instead of bullets, a different kind of police civilian relationship might develop . They could keep their weapons in the back but to resort to guns first should be seens as a black-mark on any cops record-Shoot people like that once, and you're on probation. Do it twice and you become a traffic cop: permanently.
The reason is that blacks are over represented. They are far more likely to be killed. 22% of those killed. 12% of the population.
Mr. Trump got his wish, a gun in every hand, See where that leads.
32
With not a word from President Obama.
It can happen here...
legal carry and use of a gun has absolutely nothing to do with threatening police with a weapon.
This is what happens when wealth inequality reaches an extreme, as it is today in the United States. Life among the lower classes comes to resemble more and more that of a Third World country.
43
What has "wealth inequality" got to do with it? The average "underachiever" in America lives a life that most people in the "Third World" would love to live. That's why so many people living in impoverished countries dream of living in America where even the poorest families receive all sorts of aid, paid for by the rest of the citizenry. It's matter of, attitude, respect for the social order, respect for the law and education and willingness to obtain the facts before leaping to a conclusion.
1
Your premise is wrong as wealth inequality is greater in many other countries. However, the USA's gun control laws are unique, and this is what happens when guns are so freely available to citizens. And this is what happens when the President is afraid to tackle the gun lobby and enact strict gun control laws.
ACTUALLY IT IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN EVERYONE FINALLY can film-, upload images of police brhasving as though life were a wild West movie. Before the advent of easily "uploaded" images, then widely distributed on an international news-like service,(as often as not it gets things wrong). But the US Police have before this been able to act without being held responsible for their actions, for hundreds of years, and as cities got big, and guns faster and able to fire four times more bullets, the end was predictable: shoot first talk not at all. Police are now discovering what it is like to be under the microscope-which they once controlled by and for themselves.
Scott's record printed in Charlotte Observer.Previous charges
A public records search shows that Scott was convicted in April 2004 of a misdemeanor assault with a deadly weapon charge in Mecklenburg County. Other charges stemming from that date were dismissed: felony assault with a deadly weapon with intent to kill, and misdemeanors assault on a child under 12, assault on a female and communicating threats.
In April 2015 in Gaston County Court, Scott was found guilty of driving while intoxicated.
In 1992, Scott was charged in Charleston County, S.C., with several different crimes on different dates, including carrying a concealed weapon (not a gun), simple assault and contributing to the delinquency of a minor. He pleaded guilty to all charges.
Scott also was charged with aggravated assault in 1992 and assault with intent to kill in 1995. Both charges were reduced, but the disposition of the cases is unclear.
According to Bexar County, Texas, records, Scott was sentenced in March 2005 to 15 months in a state jail for evading arrest. In July of that year, records show, he was sentenced to seven years in prison on a conviction of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. A Texas Department of Criminal Justice spokesman said Scott completed his sentence and was released from prison in 2011.
Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article103175292.html#...
A public records search shows that Scott was convicted in April 2004 of a misdemeanor assault with a deadly weapon charge in Mecklenburg County. Other charges stemming from that date were dismissed: felony assault with a deadly weapon with intent to kill, and misdemeanors assault on a child under 12, assault on a female and communicating threats.
In April 2015 in Gaston County Court, Scott was found guilty of driving while intoxicated.
In 1992, Scott was charged in Charleston County, S.C., with several different crimes on different dates, including carrying a concealed weapon (not a gun), simple assault and contributing to the delinquency of a minor. He pleaded guilty to all charges.
Scott also was charged with aggravated assault in 1992 and assault with intent to kill in 1995. Both charges were reduced, but the disposition of the cases is unclear.
According to Bexar County, Texas, records, Scott was sentenced in March 2005 to 15 months in a state jail for evading arrest. In July of that year, records show, he was sentenced to seven years in prison on a conviction of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. A Texas Department of Criminal Justice spokesman said Scott completed his sentence and was released from prison in 2011.
Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article103175292.html#...
68
You're kidding, right? His past is his past. He served his sentences. That doesn't give the police the right to kill him. On the day of his murder he had neither been charge or convicted of a crime, nor had he been sentenced to death by a sitting judge. His past is irrelevant. No one, not even a former convicted felon, deserves to be shot dead by law enforcement during non-criminal engagement. Period. End of story. That is the law.
I guess these past convictions justify his current execution. (sigh).
Does this mean that anyone with a criminal record should be shot?, Or does it mean that , if, after shooting a person without real reason or proper warning-instead of calling for backup or just waiting out a person , that if they are found to be ex cons, it was a justified shooting?
Should people with traffic tickets and maybe a an arrest for marijuana(in the states where it's still illegal), should also be fair game?
I think traitors should be made to pay the penalty.-Ooops-if that had happened, every man who served in Confederate armies or woman who supported and gave aid and comfort, would have automatically been considered a traitor after the war. Instead, the US and kindly Uncle Sam gave all these brutal "criminals" a pass and they became heroes, for having murdered so many Northerners, who were just trying to hold the Union together. No wonder so many Americans have such peculiar ideas about law and it's "enforcement".
Should people with traffic tickets and maybe a an arrest for marijuana(in the states where it's still illegal), should also be fair game?
I think traitors should be made to pay the penalty.-Ooops-if that had happened, every man who served in Confederate armies or woman who supported and gave aid and comfort, would have automatically been considered a traitor after the war. Instead, the US and kindly Uncle Sam gave all these brutal "criminals" a pass and they became heroes, for having murdered so many Northerners, who were just trying to hold the Union together. No wonder so many Americans have such peculiar ideas about law and it's "enforcement".
These riots will result in another 100,000 votes for Trump. He already has taken the lead there. It will be 10 years before anybody holds a convention in Charlotte again!!!
36
Right, and Twitter is such a reliable news source. Not.
According to eyewitnesses on my twitter feed, the police shot that guy. Not a civilian.
3
The police always lie but Twitter never does? Let the ballistics tell the truth.
So they found PCP in Mr Crutcher's car? How convenient--I don't believe a word of it. I had sheriffs in Bryan County GA plant a handful of marijuana on the back seat of my car just for fun, to terrorize me, before they let me off with a ticket for "failing to signal while changing lanes".. I was black for a day and will never forget it.
49
That must have been terrifying. I hope you reported the incident to the local or state or federal authorities. If nothing else, it would have made the next accusation against those police officers more credible.
1
Convenient? No those are called facts..
A black police officer in Charlotte shot a black man. Blacks riot and blame whites and police. Makes perfect sense, doesn't it?
Perhaps the leaders of the black community should focus their energy on changing the behavior of those within their community and thus reducing the violent crime committed by blacks against blacks in cities across the US. Far more positive will result from addressing the fundamental problems within their own community (lack of family support for youth, glorified violence, blaming others for everything, etc.).
Perhaps the leaders of the black community should focus their energy on changing the behavior of those within their community and thus reducing the violent crime committed by blacks against blacks in cities across the US. Far more positive will result from addressing the fundamental problems within their own community (lack of family support for youth, glorified violence, blaming others for everything, etc.).
107
Two different issues. Yes, black on black crime needs to be addressed within the black community. And YES police on black brutality ALSO needs to be addressed within the police community. Addressing one doesn't alleviate the need to address the other.
Ending poverty and racism have a place in your bag of solutions???
"Blaming others for everything".....sounds like Trump!! Great role model, aye?
"Blaming others for everything".....sounds like Trump!! Great role model, aye?
Just because two people from the race thats being discriminated against are of the same race as the victim doesn't not always mean they support their cause or wish to protect them.
Slave owners had black servants who killed other blacks so they can sleep and eat with their master. They called them house negro's, and they despised the inferior field negro's. They looked down on them like dirt, because they had the better clothes, ate the better food and they were loved by their masters.
In the court of law, the black police chief and the black officer have a motivate to be against the victim in racist fashion. Its either to protect their pockets or just plain conformity in a hierarchy controlled by those you seek approval of.
Slave owners had black servants who killed other blacks so they can sleep and eat with their master. They called them house negro's, and they despised the inferior field negro's. They looked down on them like dirt, because they had the better clothes, ate the better food and they were loved by their masters.
In the court of law, the black police chief and the black officer have a motivate to be against the victim in racist fashion. Its either to protect their pockets or just plain conformity in a hierarchy controlled by those you seek approval of.
So now one protestor shot and killed another protestor. A little ironic at a Black Lives Matter protest.
Tulsa is handling their recent shooting incident much better.
Tulsa is handling their recent shooting incident much better.
46
Trump is nothing but a brain dump and Clinton tried to please everyone with her remarks shying away from taking a stand on behalf of the shooting victims.
I don't know? Why should I vote for anyone?
I don't know? Why should I vote for anyone?
7
vote libertarian and show the Clintons, Trumps, and all the rest of "ruling class" of senators and congressmen we are sick and tired of the two party system. The Libertarian has almost no chance of winning, but don't waste your vote by staying home. At least make a statement.
So, you want Trump to pick the next DOJ head and Supreme Court justices?
2
Maybe you should wait until all the facts come in first.
"Can we all get along? Can we get along? . . . We can get along here. We can all get along."
. . . Rodney King - May 1, 1992
. . . Rodney King - May 1, 1992
8
Black Lives Matter, NYC:
"What do we want?
Dead Cops
When do we want it?
Now!"
Ferguson: Michael Brown’s stepfather's Louis Head yells “burn this bitch down”
Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn J. Mosby: "No Justice, No Peace."
Riots and looting in Charlotte.
I fear for the safety of police and the innocents.
"What do we want?
Dead Cops
When do we want it?
Now!"
Ferguson: Michael Brown’s stepfather's Louis Head yells “burn this bitch down”
Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn J. Mosby: "No Justice, No Peace."
Riots and looting in Charlotte.
I fear for the safety of police and the innocents.
82
The innocents include most protestors who fear the police.
I am not sure how this shootings could be explained away, it is beginning to seem like some people with malicious intent in the police force have other motive to create all this riot and confusion. How could a man suspected of planting bombs in New Jersey and New York, who at the same time engaged police officers with gun, gets to stand trial alive without any life threatening injuries. And another man just with a darker skin with no APB issued gets fatally shot each time. This is getting outright ludicrous. How hard is it to aim and disable people if you are really trained to protect and serve. These miscreants cops that tend to shot to kill really need to face the wrath of the justice system. How can one not empathize with people been angry about this over and over again. it is insane.
38
I have to wonder, as there seems to be a disinterest on the part of the media, how many persons of other "groups"- caucasians, Hispanics, asians and so on have been shot by the police over comparable time periods. Otherwise, these incidents are out of context and the reporting lacks context and credibility.
1
Shooting to injure? You mean like shoot the gun out of someone's hand? That only happens in the movies. If an officer shoots to wound someone, there is a good chance his shot will not hit exactly where he wants it to hit, and the thug will get a chance to shoot back. No. Officers are trained to shoot at the torso to improve the chance that they themselves will not be shot. They are not trained to give the thugs a fighting chance. If they do, that dramatically increases the chance that they won't come home some day. Put the blame on the thugs who create the situations where an officer must make a decision that he would rather not make.
1
Doesn't everyone know that the reason this kind of stuff keeps happening is . . , GUNS. Everyone on the streets has them, so cops understandably are up tight. In bygone days, guns were rare. In most countries, guns are rare.
76
Guns were rare before the War on Drugs. Gangs in LA used to fight back in the day with rubber band guns over profits from small-time gambling.
It was Nixon's ludicrous idea that our nation's law enforcement officers should be saddled with the job of eliminating (some forms of) addiction that turned the police into an occupying army making war on a sinful and less than fully cooperative public.
It wasn't until after the War on Drugs got going that gun violence in America became normalized. Drug agents like their guns. Gang soldiers like their guns. It really needs to end.
It was Nixon's ludicrous idea that our nation's law enforcement officers should be saddled with the job of eliminating (some forms of) addiction that turned the police into an occupying army making war on a sinful and less than fully cooperative public.
It wasn't until after the War on Drugs got going that gun violence in America became normalized. Drug agents like their guns. Gang soldiers like their guns. It really needs to end.
You need to study your history. There have always been lots of guns in the US. You once could by an anti tank rifle through the mail, I remember watching the news article on 60 minutes I believe. The problem is not guns. The problem is civility and a culture that relies on the government to solve all their problems. It is the Great Society that caused what we are seeing today.
1
"In bygone days guns were rare"... but the reality is officer killings of blacks were 400% higher back in the 1960s and 70s. Yes they are down 75% over the last 2 generations but you would never know that reading the NYT. The reporting is so biased with its constant reference to "recent spate of black men shot by police" that the hard statistics showing the bigger picture rarely make it through. Lot so intelligent readers including many blacks actually think there is a racial disparity in black shooting and it's gotten worse recently. The facts don't support this. Very roughly blacks and whites commit the same number of murders and violent crimes in the US. This is absolute numbers not rates. The number of arrests for these crimes are also about the same for blacks and whites. But twice as many whites as blacks get shot by the police each year. Even thoughtful people who read "quality" papers don't know this because it is so rarely mentioned. The NYT's reporting is intended to incite not to inform.
What does it take to get The Times to report that the policeman that shot the Black man was BLACK.
This is NOT a white on black event. WHY does The Times continue to try an frame it as such?
This is NOT honest reporting, it is narrative reporting.
This is NOT a white on black event. WHY does The Times continue to try an frame it as such?
This is NOT honest reporting, it is narrative reporting.
117
The issue is about police brutality towards blacks. As it turns out, some police officers are black. But they are also police officers. It's about the training and culture within the police departments that is at issue.
Why does it matter? It's another example of police lawlessness.
The race of the cop that shot the guy was black. There. However, it was a cop that did it. A cop.
I don't understand The New York Times style rules.
In this article the race of the police is only mentioned once. And it's referenced in anther incident when a white officer killed a black man.
When the piece notes that a black man was killed at the hands of a police officer, the race of the officer -- even though he is black -- is not mentioned.
Which is it New York Times? Do you only mention the race of an officer who kills a black man when the officer is white? It would appear so.
Please be consistent. A man died tonight.
In this article the race of the police is only mentioned once. And it's referenced in anther incident when a white officer killed a black man.
When the piece notes that a black man was killed at the hands of a police officer, the race of the officer -- even though he is black -- is not mentioned.
Which is it New York Times? Do you only mention the race of an officer who kills a black man when the officer is white? It would appear so.
Please be consistent. A man died tonight.
121
good observation, but not surprising. the NYT has a narrative to sustain.
The New York Times didn't mention that the cop was black because that would conflict with their "oppressive white police" narrative.
I'm just glad the officers made it home safe.
Black cop, black police chief, white very liberal mayor. But somehow this is just another incident of police brutality demonstrating how racist society is - meaning Donald Trump and his undesirable followers.
36
Especially when reporting on a civil rights related issue - People with mental disabilities. Not mentally disabled people.
3
If the police were unarmed the dynamic would change from confrontation to collaboration.
11
Ummmm no. I'm an Oregonian living in Charlotte and I, too, was naive enough to believe the same thing when I moved here. It was hard to imagine people wouldn't just choose to get a long. Last night people were driving on my street shooting their guns off, as happens so often here. If police were unarmed, we'd all be hurt. I can say with pride that my experience with the Charlotte Police has been thoughtful and professional. Far better than I ever experienced in Oregon. And that's saying something.
5
Trouble is you'd also need to disarm the wider public.
1
If the police were unarmed, there would be dead police. Not sure why you don't understand that?
1
National Guard out now. Curfew now. Enough!
19
Curfew? For a protest? Nope. You support police brutality - now face the consequences.
Congratulations, BLM -- You just elected Trump.
63
Wrong. The KKK that has elected Trump.
that's garbage. there's a problem with cops killing unaemed black men and boys. blm has a right to point it out.
Hearing all the "I fear for my life," I get the impression that our police officers scare easy, at seemingly not so threatening situation, and often when there are three or more of them. Does this mean majority of our police officers, despite being armed with deadly weapons, are cowards with neither courage nor the resourcefulness to deal with difficult or just moderately difficult situations?
It breaks my heart to say this as I am a cop fan, with default admiration for people who put their lives on the line to protect others. I feel like I am forced to see our police officers differently now after so many of these unnecessary shooting deaths.
At some point, it becomes clearer that it is not just isolated bad apples or isolated bad calls, but our police has a systemic culture of being scared of black people, prematurely labeling them criminal, reactively use unneeded deadly force.
My children are biracial but appearance wise look like African American. I am already telling myself, if ever I am in trouble, calling police for help is not an option if they are with me.
It breaks my heart to say this as I am a cop fan, with default admiration for people who put their lives on the line to protect others. I feel like I am forced to see our police officers differently now after so many of these unnecessary shooting deaths.
At some point, it becomes clearer that it is not just isolated bad apples or isolated bad calls, but our police has a systemic culture of being scared of black people, prematurely labeling them criminal, reactively use unneeded deadly force.
My children are biracial but appearance wise look like African American. I am already telling myself, if ever I am in trouble, calling police for help is not an option if they are with me.
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I don't think it's that. I think its the citizens that refuse to hold police accountable the right way. Rioting is the wrong way.
1
They are dealing with guns. Something none of us would ever dare do. A guy with a gun at your front door? Call a cop. Make another human deal with it. So we are in no position to judge them when guns are involved. "Seemingly not so threatening"? You can't really say till you've been there.
Sterling and Castile both had guns. You can hear the panic in the cops' voices on those videos. ("He's got a gun! Gun!" "I told him not to reach for it!!!") Proof they don't just make that up. So do you count these as "unnecessary shooting deaths"? From someone who would never dare to face a gun, it takes some gall to judge others.
And in a country as vast as America, these events really amount to nothing, not "so many." Magnitudes more killed by guns in all sorts of crazy situations every day, and you live your life just fine not noticing all those. All this attention is wildly overblown. Don't go out in public high on some drug and/or carrying a gun irresponsibly. Those things will get you in trouble, and one or both of those always seem to be a feature of these incidents. White guys doing these things get shot and killed, too. Relax everyone.
Sterling and Castile both had guns. You can hear the panic in the cops' voices on those videos. ("He's got a gun! Gun!" "I told him not to reach for it!!!") Proof they don't just make that up. So do you count these as "unnecessary shooting deaths"? From someone who would never dare to face a gun, it takes some gall to judge others.
And in a country as vast as America, these events really amount to nothing, not "so many." Magnitudes more killed by guns in all sorts of crazy situations every day, and you live your life just fine not noticing all those. All this attention is wildly overblown. Don't go out in public high on some drug and/or carrying a gun irresponsibly. Those things will get you in trouble, and one or both of those always seem to be a feature of these incidents. White guys doing these things get shot and killed, too. Relax everyone.
If a man or woman, black or white, gets out of a car waving a gun and refuses to put it down, do you think it is cowardly to afraid you might be shot?
Every story like this in The NYT includes the two most recent shootings far away like it. Could we have the list of how many whites or hispanics were shot and killed by police in the same time frame? A recent Harvard Study concluded that a higher percentage of whites and hispanics were killed in confrontations with police than African Americans. The insistence on only mentioning the two recent fatal police shootings of African Americans is inflammatory and on some level misleading.
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The Harvard study you cited only followed law enforcement's point of view; noted that statistically racial basis did in fact exist at the beginning of interaction with civilians which could affect the further scenario and in essence needs to be expanded.
As a 50+ y/o woman of color, it has been my experience in the NE that the biggest problem with many police forces is the blanket sense of entitlement officers have that is colored by "blue" . Too often the narrative is backed up by the local judicial system
As a 50+ y/o woman of color, it has been my experience in the NE that the biggest problem with many police forces is the blanket sense of entitlement officers have that is colored by "blue" . Too often the narrative is backed up by the local judicial system
That Harvard study as been disputed by many credentialed experts. In a nutshell, the study cherry-picked where it chose to get their stats and it resulted in flawed samples.
1
I think you are misreading the Harvard study, and in any case you didn't quote it. Certainly more whites were shot and killed by police, but there are a lot more whites than African Americans. From the Washington Post, July 11, 2016, (for 2015) "...unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer."
Hillary Clinton just convicted the Charlotte cop in a presser. Unfortunately for her, there appears to be video showing that the victim actually did have a gun, not a book. If this is the case, Trump will go after for her convicting the cop, and she will be looking really, really bad.
46
Did she? Maybe, but I didn't hear about it. I know she was unhappy that someone was killed in Charlotte, and I know she said the person killed in Tulsa was unarmed. What are you disagreeing with, then?
No videos have been released.
No he won't. He's trying to "reach out" to African Americans right now, though pandering might be a better word.
Sure glad North Carolina Legislature saw fit to spend time and resources this year on the REAL issue faced by their citizens - Transgender prohibition in public bathrooms!
43
That was a great stand for moral clarity.
The reason millions of African Americans do not rise up with sufficient force to topple the evil racist society is that they have become dispirited. Their oppression has been relentless. Leadership is lacking; it's not like the 1960s. King was only one of many great black leaders. Also white dudes such as Kennedy Johnson were dedicated. All this is virtually absent.
Black oppression has changed little over the decades. It has just changed form. Education in a shambles, huge numbers of blacks in prisons for trivial offences.
This mirror image Israelite slavery in Egypt 3000 years ago. These people were slaves 400years. They couldn't save themselves. It took an act of God to perform miracles to free the slaves.
Blacks must be free. Most are not but think they are. It will take an act of God. If this is a repeat of the Egyptian story then the oppressed shall cry out to God. He will awaken and miracles will occur. Many of the 1960 leaders were ministers.
Black oppression has changed little over the decades. It has just changed form. Education in a shambles, huge numbers of blacks in prisons for trivial offences.
This mirror image Israelite slavery in Egypt 3000 years ago. These people were slaves 400years. They couldn't save themselves. It took an act of God to perform miracles to free the slaves.
Blacks must be free. Most are not but think they are. It will take an act of God. If this is a repeat of the Egyptian story then the oppressed shall cry out to God. He will awaken and miracles will occur. Many of the 1960 leaders were ministers.
11
Wow that is definitely an insane statement. So, white people are the Egyptians, and you want God to come out and like spite white people from the sky?
Yeah, that's definitely what we need. Not racial reconciliation or police and gun reform. We need Jesus to ride out on a chariot and take the first born child of every white person. That will definitely make things right.
Also, in the early 60s a black women couldn't use the same bathroom as a white woman. Today, only Transgender black women can't use the same bathroom as a white woman. Things have definitely changed a lot, and for the better in many cases.
Yeah, that's definitely what we need. Not racial reconciliation or police and gun reform. We need Jesus to ride out on a chariot and take the first born child of every white person. That will definitely make things right.
Also, in the early 60s a black women couldn't use the same bathroom as a white woman. Today, only Transgender black women can't use the same bathroom as a white woman. Things have definitely changed a lot, and for the better in many cases.
maybe if we could just elect a black president, your scenario could be realized. all would be righted.
I have been watching the events in Charlotte on CNN tonight. It has been reported that a protestor was killed - not by the police. What I have witnessed is nothing but sheer, utter lawlessness - and it is evident that the police have been restrained - needless so. Very sad and tragic...and people wonder why there may be a President Trump...sad but true
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RJF
"the police have been restrained" ?????
The police caused this ! by executing yet another human without any sane reason.
"the police have been restrained" ?????
The police caused this ! by executing yet another human without any sane reason.
Where are the videos? Understandable lack of trust in the police until they are released.
8
17 police injured. One civilian killed. This is no protest. This is a riot.
Will the Times call it what it is?
Will the Times call it what it is?
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Apparently, if you say black lives need to get their act together, stop rioting and and Gandhi up, or if you say immigration is good, except if it's the illegal kind, you are a racist xenophobe.
1
Once the police put on the riot gear, they will turn it into a riot.
"And the riot squad is restless. They need somewhere to go"
(Bob Dylan)
"And the riot squad is restless. They need somewhere to go"
(Bob Dylan)
Unfortunatel though it is the Nyt has never really been fair in their reporting
All you need to do is watch the Netflix series "Making a Murderer" to realize that police will do whatever is necessary to corroborate their own version of events.
21
I wish aliens would attack the earth, then maybe I will live to see all humans support each other no matter our petty differences. But somehow even in that impossible scenario there would still be some who would still hate and distrust each other. I read today that most geneticists believe we as humans exitied Africa around 100000 years ago. In other words we are all African, much to the dismay of many who believe they are a superior ethnicity. Personally I think we are genetically programmed to self destruct and the supreme being is laughing at the joke of humanity. Or crying?
16
It turns out that most people have a percentage of Neanderthal genes with the highest percentage appearing among the northern Europeans. Every person has a common mother who lived in Africa about 200,000 years ago according to mitochondrial DNA. Our obsession with racial identity is clearly specious and takes us away from a realization of our common ancestry and identity. But it seems that humans cling to their old stories about the outsider and the other which becomes harder and harder as our world becomes so crowded and we are forced to share our planet.
You shall not live to see humans supporting each other irrespective of our differences, because such beings would be not humans but angels. And, I must say, if extraterrestrials attacked the planet, the likelihood is that they would be immensely technologically superior to us and thus easily obliterate the entire human race; in which case the Alien-Induced Reconciliation of Differences Theory would be rendered unverifiable for the simple reason that humanity would no longer exist. But the sentiment -- the sentiment, old sport -- is a noble one.
We are certainly programmed to judge quickly so as to save our dna which desires that we pass it along....
Last I heard, NC was an open-carry state. Carrying a firearm is not even cause for stop and search, let alone shooting the carrier. So even if Mr. Scott was carrying a gun when he got out of the car, he was not the person of interest in the warrant, so what was the imminent threat that posed by carrying a gun in an open-carry state?
Why are all the second-amendment freaks silent on this?
Why are all the second-amendment freaks silent on this?
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According to police reports, the problem was not his carrying a weapon. The problem was his not dropping it after being told repeatedly to to do so.
2
Because they are just as frightened of black men as the police.
carrying a weapon, concealed or in the open, does not allow a person to wave the weapon. It must be kept in its holster. Drawing the weapon without just cause, is generally considered brandishing and is illegal. It is considered a type of assault. If you are holding a weapon and police tell you to drop it, you best drop it quickly without hesitation.
I am Bill of Rights Freak/supporter including the second amendment.
I am Bill of Rights Freak/supporter including the second amendment.
The police chief does not Know if the officer was wearing a body camera? Translation the officers camera showed the shooting as it really happened. We need that camera. Do a full audit of the cameras at the police department and see if one is missing and who it was issued to. My guess, the shootings officer.
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To shoot someone to stop a threat, perceived or real is one thing. Letting a person die needlessly once shot is a different thing. That is a depraved indifference to human life.
25
I have been victimized many times in my life, by Police stopping me without any cause, holding me at gunpoint, and taunting me, saying " You know I can kill you right now and get away with it". No traffic infraction, crime or any other civilian\ law enforcement conflict had preceded any of these incidents. I am a caucasian, educated American citizen, who speaks without any trace of an accent. I am of average height and weight, and in no way physically threatening by my body-type. The mere fact that the Law Enforcement representatives who voiced these lethal threats saw me as "lesser persons" than they, because I was not a Policeman, was a horrific reality forced upon me on the side of the road. The issue was not animosity based on racial or any other Social Issues. Many Police personnel simply see a Caste System, with the uppermost Caste occupied only by Law Enforcement , and all other members of American Society inferior to Police. This sad state of affairs has only been made worse lately, by the ubiquitous Camera and Video coverage of public shootings of American Citizens by US Police, and the subsequent nonchalance of these killer policemens' departments, over the Citizens' violent deaths. Everyone in America needs to heed the adage" there but for the Grace of God go I". Anyone can be the Next Victim of violent death sentences, carried out, without due process of American Law, just because so many citizens are loath to criticize Police, for fear that the next time they c
The perp deserved a higher level of care so they called for an emergency response. Next.
The shootings of Black People needs a US Government inquiry as to what exactly is going on. I thought there was going to be investigations of previous killings, more training go police, and cameras worn by many police forces. Instead, nothing seems to have happened.
With all these killings going on, and then followed by rioting, the USA is starting to look like third world countries or South America,where shootings and riots happen often!
With all these killings going on, and then followed by rioting, the USA is starting to look like third world countries or South America,where shootings and riots happen often!
22
The US is a Third World country.
We've been looking like a third world country for years with all the roadside plastic flowers and teddy bears.
Another cold blooded murder. Period.
9
The obvious problem with police reporting they have "found" the gun is that millions of people saw this https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/07/south-carolina-police-of... and it's not hard to imagine cops who have "gone fetal" tampering with a crime scene in order to save their own rear ends.
Generally speaking, that is.
Generally speaking, that is.
14
From an outsider looking in; what are the facts? Is it true that the officer who
shot this man was Black? If so, why isn't the media printing this? I think the media more than anyone is guilty in promoting a narrative of "Police Shoot Another Black Person!: while glossing over the absence of what used to be expected - investigative reporting. How about some facts as opposed to supposition and innuendo?
shot this man was Black? If so, why isn't the media printing this? I think the media more than anyone is guilty in promoting a narrative of "Police Shoot Another Black Person!: while glossing over the absence of what used to be expected - investigative reporting. How about some facts as opposed to supposition and innuendo?
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So the police officer is black. The point of the matter is that police all over the USA seem to be shooting first and asking questions after. Sadly, you can't question a dead person, nor can the dead give their version of the events!
34
@Majortrout... But that is not the point that the BLM movement is espousing though. Many of us feel there is police brutality, the BLM movement is making the claim that the White power structure and white officers specifically are killing Black males. These are two different arguments and why many of us, myself included, can not identify with the Black Lives Matter movement which only seems to be concerned about police brutality victims because of their skin color.
"Police Shoot Another Black Person!: That is exactly what happened. Black cop or white cop is not the point. Do you think black people feel better if a black cop shoots them?
Rioting. Looting. A "protester" shot by another "protester "..his life doesn't matter as much. If these rioters are teens, where are their parents ? If they are adults, don't they have to get home to their families and get to bed for work tomorrow ?
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Excellent question. I am always puzzled by this: don't the protesters have jobs and / or school obligations? Also why looting a store w NBA goods in it?
Does anyone know what actually happened and why this man was shot by the cops? The NYT would do well to report in the story's lead para the circumstances of the shooting rather than suggesting through incendiary headlines that the cop acted recklessly. Remember Ferguson: it was all an outrage until the DOJ found after months of investigation that the cop acted in self defense.
Does anyone know what actually happened and why this man was shot by the cops? The NYT would do well to report in the story's lead para the circumstances of the shooting rather than suggesting through incendiary headlines that the cop acted recklessly. Remember Ferguson: it was all an outrage until the DOJ found after months of investigation that the cop acted in self defense.
Rick,
I don't think there the looters comprise lots of folks who work for a living... And as far as the teen agers are concerned? Well, let's not be naïve...
I don't think there the looters comprise lots of folks who work for a living... And as far as the teen agers are concerned? Well, let's not be naïve...
"“The police just shot my daddy four times for being black,” " But the cop who did the shooting is black too.
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The thing is, it's not necessarily the individual actor (i.e. it doesn't matter so much what the race of the police officer is) but rather the systemic issues of implicit discrimination and racial bias that profoundly affect the way authority figures like police officers react in these types of situations. Whether the individual officer in question is "racist" or not shouldn't be the primary focus because that is impossible to prove. What you can prove/strongly suggest, by looking at data and studies (such as in the Ferguson report, the New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander) is that there is a high degree of institutionalized discrimination permeating police departments across America, regardless of the often times well intentioned thoughts of individual officers. It is a structural issue, first and foremost and to say "but the cop who did the shooting is black too" merely ducks the larger and more important issue.
So what if the cop was black. The difference is the cop was acting under the color of the law when he shot the guy and stood by and watched him die. The difference is the black cop is far more likely to be charged tried and convicted than a white cop doing the same thing.
Some guy at the riot just shot some guy dead because he was black. At least the guy who died at the riot was black, probably the shooter too. Terrible world we live in.
Armed? Apparently, he wasn't one of the "GOOD guys".
19
Allegedly
I fail to understand that a known terrorist who was apprehended and who actually shot a police officer was not shot dead bymthe police. This would be laughable if it was not so immoral and callous. No doubt the excuse would be they needed to keep the terrorist aliveness to gather information. Spare me.
The gave Nazi prisoners of war better seats in the trains than black people travelling on the same trains. Right here in the U S of A. Go figure.
The gave Nazi prisoners of war better seats in the trains than black people travelling on the same trains. Right here in the U S of A. Go figure.
24
Obviously the police and the family have different stories. The video should be released.
Not every person shot by police is guilty. However, when someone holds a weapon (or something which looks like a weapon) and disobeys an order from a police officer (stop / drop / whatever), what on earth do you expect?
The video will prove one party right and the other wrong. But please, let violent protests stop. One accident is more than enough.
Not every person shot by police is guilty. However, when someone holds a weapon (or something which looks like a weapon) and disobeys an order from a police officer (stop / drop / whatever), what on earth do you expect?
The video will prove one party right and the other wrong. But please, let violent protests stop. One accident is more than enough.
28
"Not every person shot by police is guilty."
No one killed by police is guilty of anything because guilt can be adjudicated only by a court of law. The police don't have the authority to declare guilt or innocence.
No one killed by police is guilty of anything because guilt can be adjudicated only by a court of law. The police don't have the authority to declare guilt or innocence.
23
@workerbee: But the police do have the right to defend themselves with lethal force when an unruly suspect waves a gun around.
If I were black, I would be ready to hit the streets as well. It is totally unacceptable that blacks are killed by police at such a nigh rate. We need to screen an train our police persons much better. We need to prosecute those who do not think before they shoot. It is just as illegal to shoot a black person as to shoot a white person. We need to investigate carefully after each shooting. The police person who shoots out of fear for his/her life should gbe excused, but we need hatrd evidence that the person killed presented a reasonable threat to the police killer That is absent in far too many cases. I am white, but I am convinced that black lives matter, as well. And so do the lives of those who are mentally ill, who are also frequently killed. It is hard for the police to discern in the moment which case is dangerous and which isn't, but they must be trained to do so. And video must always be shot and it must always be available to the public if there is a killing.
36
Even if they tried police could not keep up with the national rate of Black on Black homocide.
If you are ready to hit the streets looting Walmart and throwing rocks on freeway cars, then I have no sympathy with you and you are the part of the problem
1
Well, who'd have thunk it, the antebellum antics of the South rise again--"modern-day lynching on social media, on television..." indeed Mr. Murphy. I wish this would happen to some of the harshest critics out there--those like incompetent Trump who are above the law both racially and monetarily.
27
Antebellum antics of the South? Please. Come visit Chicago so you can tell us the difference between North and South.
Police are trained to shoot center mass.
That's where the heart is.
That's just another way of saying, the police are trained to 'shoot to kill'.
So why administering first aid? Counterproductive, isn't it.
The only chance of survival with a policy like that is that you are lucky enough to encounter an officer who is a lousy shot.
Some comfort!
That's where the heart is.
That's just another way of saying, the police are trained to 'shoot to kill'.
So why administering first aid? Counterproductive, isn't it.
The only chance of survival with a policy like that is that you are lucky enough to encounter an officer who is a lousy shot.
Some comfort!
11
It's actually a good chance that a cop you see is bad shot, well documented. But they have the opportunity to get of 15 or 20 rounds and they are likely to hit something.
not if you study police shootings -- most cops are lousy shots
most cops carry glock pistols which have 15 rd magazines
you dont need to be a good shot, just have a strong trigger finger
Mr. Scott's family says that he didn't have a gun; he was carrying a book. A local civil rights activist (Mr. Barnett) says “The truth of the matter is, he didn’t point that gun.” So, which story do the protectors believe? Or do they care.
The local police chief - who is a black man - says that Mr. Scott threatened police officers with a gun, which has been recovered by the police. The police officer who shot Mr. Scott is also a black man.
We don't yet know exactly what happened. But what we do know does not support the conclusion that the shooting of Mr. Scott was either unjustified or racially motivated.
The local police chief - who is a black man - says that Mr. Scott threatened police officers with a gun, which has been recovered by the police. The police officer who shot Mr. Scott is also a black man.
We don't yet know exactly what happened. But what we do know does not support the conclusion that the shooting of Mr. Scott was either unjustified or racially motivated.
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Earlier many of the protesters were spreading the word he was only carrying his cell phone.
Facts don't matter to angry mobs. Any excuse to loot, steal and destroy public and private property with impunity. The press refuses to recognize and report the difference between lawful protesters and illegal rioters.
Facts don't matter to angry mobs. Any excuse to loot, steal and destroy public and private property with impunity. The press refuses to recognize and report the difference between lawful protesters and illegal rioters.
3
It appears people have already decided what happened. Many seem incapable of waiting until the facts come out. Their emotions rule their actions. Unfortunately, many also have lawless tendencies, so riots erupt. A dangerous cocktail of human characteristics.
1
Why wasn't the cop who did the shooting wearing a body cam? They are (supposedly) required in Charlotte. Did he "forget" it? Did he "lose" it?
And NC is an open carry state.
Or maybe it is an "open carry unless you are Black" state.
And NC is an open carry state.
Or maybe it is an "open carry unless you are Black" state.
To the Scott family and loved ones - I am so sorry for your loss. I pray God will comfort you and lift your spirits. You are in my thoughts and the thoughts of many across the nation.
22
We look more like a third world country every day.
Thanks Obama.
Thanks Obama.
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Don't you think blaming the President of the United States for something that have been simmering for the last 100 years or so is kinda of silly.
This began a long time ago. The unrest of unfairness that is happening now has nothing to do with The President. It is that kind of hateful, bigotry that has brought our country to its knees.
We have our history. It is all there to see for those that care for the truth. The horror that the Black people have gone through in this country it is worst than in any other country in Europe and the Caribbean Islands. That human beings have lived in those conditions through the years without rising is a testament to their strength of spirit. I don't know who and what color you are but I would bet my petunias that you would not even last 1 week in that kind of conditions. As a human being and an American I shake my head when my fellows turn their heads toward other countries that they consider unfair to their people. Those head should turn back toward our home and see the unfairness here. There is a lot of pain here to be alleviated among our American family. Yes we are dysfunctional but I do believe that we can fix our own affairs first before we try to fix someone else's. Perhaps we all should face ourselves accept our part and take responsibility. Start teaching the next generation to respect people that wear different skin color and don't group everyone the same. We are in this planet together. Something to think about.
This began a long time ago. The unrest of unfairness that is happening now has nothing to do with The President. It is that kind of hateful, bigotry that has brought our country to its knees.
We have our history. It is all there to see for those that care for the truth. The horror that the Black people have gone through in this country it is worst than in any other country in Europe and the Caribbean Islands. That human beings have lived in those conditions through the years without rising is a testament to their strength of spirit. I don't know who and what color you are but I would bet my petunias that you would not even last 1 week in that kind of conditions. As a human being and an American I shake my head when my fellows turn their heads toward other countries that they consider unfair to their people. Those head should turn back toward our home and see the unfairness here. There is a lot of pain here to be alleviated among our American family. Yes we are dysfunctional but I do believe that we can fix our own affairs first before we try to fix someone else's. Perhaps we all should face ourselves accept our part and take responsibility. Start teaching the next generation to respect people that wear different skin color and don't group everyone the same. We are in this planet together. Something to think about.
Sorry. That won't work. You can't blame Obama for what is happening between African Americans and the police. Do you think African Americans weren't harassed, shot for no reason, etc before President Obama?
I am not sure why this issue has come front and center now other than cell phones, Internet, militarization of the police, among other things.
Race problems are as old as this country and until white people face them head on thing won't get much better.
Quit blaming Obama for our country's race problems.
I am not sure why this issue has come front and center now other than cell phones, Internet, militarization of the police, among other things.
Race problems are as old as this country and until white people face them head on thing won't get much better.
Quit blaming Obama for our country's race problems.
1
What does Obama have to do with it? Police are local. Federal police (like the FBI) seldom shoot let alone kill anybody.
1
Other than that the Charlotte police are probably lying, this is further proof that no one should have guns. The police should all be advocating serious gun registration for pistals and rifles, and banning the right to carry a pistol outside of ones home.
The Supreme Court needs to revisit the 2nd Amendment, and determine that the 2nd Amendment only guarantees the right of each State to maintain a national guard, and obligating each state to regulate all guns, as specifically stated in the 2nd Amendment.
The Supreme Court needs to revisit the 2nd Amendment, and determine that the 2nd Amendment only guarantees the right of each State to maintain a national guard, and obligating each state to regulate all guns, as specifically stated in the 2nd Amendment.
66
Your reasoning defies logic. It's not up to police to advocate social issues one way or another. If the court says we have a right, then we have that right until they say we don't, not until the cops decide it's not in our best interests.
What they ought to do is declare that most police training and vetting is way below the bar, and mandate it be improved. Screening and vetting has been an obvious failure of late. Training in good shooting, community affairs, disturbed persons, crisis management, negotiation and respect for the rights of citizens is nonexistent in many departments. Rogue cops move from one department to another with less baggage than a civilian moving from one state to another with a DWI or spousal abuse on their record. It's as bad as the church moving pedophile priests around to avoid prosecutions and lawsuits. They must also address the immunity implicit in police work so it doesn't cover blatant violations, just like your insurance won't protect you if you drive drunk. Departments must be held liable for failures to screen and train that result in illegal behavior by it's cops.
There's a great deal that can be done, but banning guns will accomplish none of it. The public must also, somehow, be made to see that for the most part, police shootings are good shoots, and they do put themselves on the line for the rest of us every day. It's a very stressful job and they get less counseling than our combat troops, which means they get less than nothing. Shame.
What they ought to do is declare that most police training and vetting is way below the bar, and mandate it be improved. Screening and vetting has been an obvious failure of late. Training in good shooting, community affairs, disturbed persons, crisis management, negotiation and respect for the rights of citizens is nonexistent in many departments. Rogue cops move from one department to another with less baggage than a civilian moving from one state to another with a DWI or spousal abuse on their record. It's as bad as the church moving pedophile priests around to avoid prosecutions and lawsuits. They must also address the immunity implicit in police work so it doesn't cover blatant violations, just like your insurance won't protect you if you drive drunk. Departments must be held liable for failures to screen and train that result in illegal behavior by it's cops.
There's a great deal that can be done, but banning guns will accomplish none of it. The public must also, somehow, be made to see that for the most part, police shootings are good shoots, and they do put themselves on the line for the rest of us every day. It's a very stressful job and they get less counseling than our combat troops, which means they get less than nothing. Shame.
1
The Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986 guarantees private citizens the right to own and lawfully use firearms. The Supreme Court ruled the second amendment's wording of a well regulated militia includes all private citizens the right to lawfully own and use firearms.
Only the liberals maintain our Constitution is a "living" document and its meaning is up their interpretation of the day. Thankfully the Supreme Court has ruled otherwise.
Only the liberals maintain our Constitution is a "living" document and its meaning is up their interpretation of the day. Thankfully the Supreme Court has ruled otherwise.
You make a valid point that I haven't considered before - that State National Guard be considered the 'militia' that the 2A refers to. By that definition it would be 'well-regulated' and require some basic level of training and duty, like in Switzerland, perhaps of everyone wishing to own a weapon. Worth further consideration.
Why does the Times have "here's what we know/here's what we don't know" for terrorist attacks, but races to assertions with literally no evidence when a black person is shot by a police officer of any color (in this case the officer was black)?
And why is the narrative *always* "police disproportionately kill innocent black people due to racism" even when the facts do not fit the narrative and even when data does not support the conclusion?
Is this journalism or propaganda? Is this Pravda or The Times?
And why is the narrative *always* "police disproportionately kill innocent black people due to racism" even when the facts do not fit the narrative and even when data does not support the conclusion?
Is this journalism or propaganda? Is this Pravda or The Times?
133
"And why is the narrative *always* "police disproportionately kill innocent black people due to racism" ..."
Because that is what is occurring.
Because that is what is occurring.
Because Black people are disproportionately the victims in police shootings. Call it racism. Call it data. Just look at the numbers.
Where's in inappropriate assertion in this article:? I can't find it.
Dear Citizens of Charlotte, NC,
Please write to your state representatives. Tell them to stop funding the police in your city. That will ensure that no one will be killed by police officers.
If that doesn't work, please write to the chief of police in your city. Please tell him to send all the officers home, and not to come back. They'll still get paid - because the state representatives are still going to fund them - but this will ensure that no one will be killed by police officers.
Sincerely,
Someone who lives nowhere near Charlotte, NC
Please write to your state representatives. Tell them to stop funding the police in your city. That will ensure that no one will be killed by police officers.
If that doesn't work, please write to the chief of police in your city. Please tell him to send all the officers home, and not to come back. They'll still get paid - because the state representatives are still going to fund them - but this will ensure that no one will be killed by police officers.
Sincerely,
Someone who lives nowhere near Charlotte, NC
23
Oh yeah perfect, remove all police from Charlotte. Have the citizens gun each other down in the street at random instead, as happened tonight. That'll work out great for everyone, murder will be committed on a constant basis in Charlotte, but nobody will be able to blame police. Really thought that one through, didn't you?
The most ridiculous comment so far.
If Scott wasn't aiming the gun at the officers, how could he be an "imminent deadly threat" to them? It's perfectly legal to openly carry a weapon in North Carolina. The only thing Scott did wrong was disobey a police officer who was trying to deny him his constitutional and legal right to carry a firearm. Since when is disobeying a police officer a capital offense? Now you see the problem with open carry laws...
47
The "only" thing Scott did wrong you say? 2 sentences later you state Scott disobeyed a police officer. I wasn't there so I openly state I have no idea what the truth is. Your statement however, assuming it is correct, show a remarkable lack of common sense as Mr. Scott's actions just may have gotten him killed.
That appears to be a common thread in these shootings. People that disobeyed the police. And I read in wonderment in this story how people are training others on how to act in front of the police. You've got to be kidding me!! Just how stupid are people?
It's extremely simple: Innocent or guilty when an officer tells you to do something the quicker you comply the better off you are. That is quadruple true if you're holding a weapon in your hand. Adults don't know this? I cannot believe that.
Also, try to avoid breaking into businesses and looting. You already know it's wrong to do that so once again if you get shot please don't blame anyone other than yourself. Goes for your family and their attorney's as well. Please have a sense of responsibility for your own actions. Police need to follow the same rules as well but realize they may feel the need to defend themselves especially in today's environment. Assuming it's a good shoot anyway.
Which brings up another valid point. It's usually appropriate and a sign of good judgement if you wait for the facts to come out as opposed to looting merely hours after a shoot occurs. I don't know... seems logical to me.
That appears to be a common thread in these shootings. People that disobeyed the police. And I read in wonderment in this story how people are training others on how to act in front of the police. You've got to be kidding me!! Just how stupid are people?
It's extremely simple: Innocent or guilty when an officer tells you to do something the quicker you comply the better off you are. That is quadruple true if you're holding a weapon in your hand. Adults don't know this? I cannot believe that.
Also, try to avoid breaking into businesses and looting. You already know it's wrong to do that so once again if you get shot please don't blame anyone other than yourself. Goes for your family and their attorney's as well. Please have a sense of responsibility for your own actions. Police need to follow the same rules as well but realize they may feel the need to defend themselves especially in today's environment. Assuming it's a good shoot anyway.
Which brings up another valid point. It's usually appropriate and a sign of good judgement if you wait for the facts to come out as opposed to looting merely hours after a shoot occurs. I don't know... seems logical to me.
1
I really wonder about people.
You do not have a right to disobey policeman. If you're driving a car and they tell you to stop, you stop. If you are walking and they tell you to stop, you stop.
It doesn't matter if what you are doing is legal or not. Disobeying a police officer is not legal.
You do not have a right to disobey policeman. If you're driving a car and they tell you to stop, you stop. If you are walking and they tell you to stop, you stop.
It doesn't matter if what you are doing is legal or not. Disobeying a police officer is not legal.
2
If I were open carrying, and a police officer asked me to do something, I would surely do it.
1
We've reached a point where anytime a black person is shot by police, the facts do not matter to the black community. This is true regardless of whether the police involved are black or the police department is headed by a black person (as in Charlotte). So perhaps the logical solution is for the police to withdraw from black communities and let the communities police themselves?
138
I'm sorry - the facts do not seem to matter to the black community? I'm white, I've seen the available footage, and it looks like the police killed an unarmed black man, again. I'll reevaluate my position if the evidence changes.
This kind of rationale would work well in Apartheid South Africa -- except this is the United States of America!....Or, maybe you didn't notice that???
Sadly, that may be the result. Some want justice. Many, however, want a pound of flesh. If the conclusion is "justifiable shooting", many say "no justice", and disregard the facts. It is counter-productive.
So what happened to 'open carry'? Do black men not have that right? Where is the NRA now?
32
Good grief. Open carry does not allow you to ignore a policeman's orders to drop the gun. Period.
No open carry in NC.
There's a huge difference between open carry laws—which basically allow you to walk around with a visible gun in a holster—and stepping out of your car with a gun in hand, ready to use. In either case, when the police tell you to put your weapon down, you do.
I find it amazing that all these comments, many quite accusatory and absolutely sure they are right - be it supporting the Police Version or the Contrary Version -
are given NYT Picks.
If a gun is seen on the video and if it is pointed at the Police and they yell
for it to be dropped and it is not but pointed again at the Police will all
those who vilified the Police send in their "Apologies" to the Comments section ?
If no gun is seen, if it is an unjustified shooting and killing, will those who
trusted the police version send in their "Apologies" ?
Will everyone send money to help the family ?
Just like the shootings and riots in Ferguson, few want to wait until the Facts
are demonstrated before they decide what the truth of the issue must be.
Why the New York Times allows these libel like comments puzzles me.
And why it "Fans the Flames" of racial discord is disturbing.
are given NYT Picks.
If a gun is seen on the video and if it is pointed at the Police and they yell
for it to be dropped and it is not but pointed again at the Police will all
those who vilified the Police send in their "Apologies" to the Comments section ?
If no gun is seen, if it is an unjustified shooting and killing, will those who
trusted the police version send in their "Apologies" ?
Will everyone send money to help the family ?
Just like the shootings and riots in Ferguson, few want to wait until the Facts
are demonstrated before they decide what the truth of the issue must be.
Why the New York Times allows these libel like comments puzzles me.
And why it "Fans the Flames" of racial discord is disturbing.
48
Hey! I'm John Brown!
I'm loving the analysis of open carry laws by people who have absolutely no legal training in any way
27
Can we at least wait for the results of a fair investigation of the shooting of a black man by a black police officer before we burn down a city?
109
No, Greg, that's not how we do things now. We trust emotion, not our brains. Haven't you been paying attention to politics over the last 20 years? Cmon - get with the times! Why would we want to use our brains?
Human emotions, in particular outrage and anger, do not proceed in linear rational ways. How many unarmed Black persons killed by police is "enough" to take to the streets?
Evidently not.
It seems pretty relevant, given the narrative around such police shootings, that the police officer in question is black. I can't imagine why the Times left that detail out of a very long story. In other incidents where the police officer was white, I'm pretty sure the Times made that important fact known.
85
How is the race of the officer relevant? He's a cop.
They did not leave that detail out. The fact that the police officer was black was mentioned twice.
Is the policeman black? Somehow you neglect to mention that fact. Sorry to hear that the rioters are killing each other - probably more black on black crime.
108
They did not neglect to mention that fact. It was mentioned twice.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Please explain how millions of guns in the hands of people who are not part of a "well regulated Militia" falls under the protection of the Second Amendment.
Please explain how millions of guns in the hands of people who are not part of a "well regulated Militia" falls under the protection of the Second Amendment.
69
It does not.
4
Well if you new your history, you would know that we'll regulated meant that gun owners had their guns clean, functional, and ready for use. A militia was the local citizenry. Citizens being prepared to secure their state. Liberals view well regulated as referring to regulations, as we understand the word today and liken militia to today's national guard, which was not the intent of the amendment.
7
Because the 2nd amendment does not say something like, - for the express and soloe purpose of having a well regulated militia... - Get it?
3
So the black police chief and black officer who committed the shooting are guided by racism?
Good old NYT. Never let facts and logic get in the way of constant accusations of racism.
Good old NYT. Never let facts and logic get in the way of constant accusations of racism.
201
The article says nothing of the sort.
1
Maybe. The problem is systemic, not individual. A white cop who has shot (let's assume for argument's sake) an innocent black person by mistake may not be racist either. But the overall trends are what are racist. We live in a racist world.
I don't see constant accusations of racism. If anything, I see here that people are free to draw their own conclusions. You're right though, they should specify the race of the shooter if they specify the race of the victim, but individual racism is really not the problem people are protesting over.
I don't see constant accusations of racism. If anything, I see here that people are free to draw their own conclusions. You're right though, they should specify the race of the shooter if they specify the race of the victim, but individual racism is really not the problem people are protesting over.
2
This particular article does not even imply racist bias by the police. I think it's pivoting towards acknowledgement that on top of some incidents where race clearly played a role, there's another issue regarding the the presence of an element within our nation's police forces who maybe became police officers in the hopes of maybe pointing a gun at someone, and maybe pulling the trigger, without any consequences. Because for a long long time cops were almost never given any grief for shooting someone as long as that person was poor and of no consequence.
What happened to using the term "allegedly". He allegedly brandished a weapon. He allegedly threatened the officers.
55
OK. Like this?
"Trump ALLEGEDLY defrauded students of Trump University..."
"Trump ALLEGEDLY discriminated against blacks in renting apartments 40 years ago...
"Trump ALLEGEDLY defrauded students of Trump University..."
"Trump ALLEGEDLY discriminated against blacks in renting apartments 40 years ago...
4
Did he allegedly acquire a criminal record as well, there was no allegedly in the original New York Times headline, the cop was crucified by media directly.
They allegedly fired on him without reason.
2
I never understood why looting goes hand in hand with these police shootings. Someone gets shot and you steal a tv from Wal-Mart?
241
Hard to fathom we live side by side with uncivilized people.
10
Opportunism.
It's not always motivated by idealism. Sometimes it's just pragmatic - the opportunity is there, chaos, not going to be readily stopped, can get away with it; people do it.
And it can be done by whites as well as blacks.
There was looting in some neighborhoods in NYC during the Con Edison blackout, summer 1977. There was nothing, really, to protest there - hot weather overburdening the utilities.
It's not always motivated by idealism. Sometimes it's just pragmatic - the opportunity is there, chaos, not going to be readily stopped, can get away with it; people do it.
And it can be done by whites as well as blacks.
There was looting in some neighborhoods in NYC during the Con Edison blackout, summer 1977. There was nothing, really, to protest there - hot weather overburdening the utilities.
Well, you need the TV to keep up on the news.
Is it really too hard for people to understand that most police shootings are justifiable and a few are clearly unjustifiable? There is a clear middle ground here.
81
It's not that simple. There are EXPONENTIALLY more police shootings in the U.S. than in the rest of the developed world. Why?
2
would it be really too hard for you to prove that, other than just asserting it to be true
i say most cop k,illings are unjustified, w a few justified
now you prove me wrong
2
19 Black men killed by police in last 30 days. justifiable?
4
Did Keith Scott have a gun? Was he threatening police officers? Maybe so, maybe not. But in circumstances like this, the first instinct of police is to lie. So, it will take more than the word of the police to convince me that Mr. Scott truly posed a threat at the time he was killed.
20
Michael brown case proved that the first instinct of media and BLM is to lie as well.
7
"the first instinct of police is to lie."
Unlike those of the family and friends of the deceased.
Unlike those of the family and friends of the deceased.
5
The governor should take immediate action. Put all policemen on a 10 year probation: no guns, no tasers. (Tasers harm people with heart problems.) They can carry a nightstick like a British constable. They can spend the probationary period learning how to deal with people without killing them. When the rare murder occurs, phone up the FBI.
19
That might work if you live in Britain, but in the U.S., where there are an estimated 300 million guns on the streets, I don't want my policemen to be carrying batons only. And what policemen in his right mind would agree to those terms?
Are you going to be one of the policemen ? How about one of your kids? Pay is good.
In other words make police the public sitting ducks for criminals.
A narrative suggests a story is being told about an event, whether recent or in the deeper past. In this instance, the shooting of a black man who was getting out of his car in the parking lot of an apartment complex. The man was shot by police who claimed he was armed with a gun. That's one narrative. The other asserts the dead man held a book, which he had been reading while he awaited the arrival home from school of his son. Leaving aside all context, all recent and distant history of police shooting unarmed civilians, all knowledge of what it is to be black in America, one could conclude from police statements that there was reason for them to believe their lives were endangered and that they acted appropriately. But since we cannot ignore context and history and the conditions black people are daily faced with, we ought to be more than a little suspicious of of the first narrative and view the second as more likely to frame the killing properly and, acting on that, demand an independent investigation at the very least. The nationwide epidemic of police violence must stop and the institutions responsible held accountable.
23
No, we should judge the narrative according to the facts. If he had a gun, the police will show it to us. If not, not.
I do not believe a Black man would get out of his car with a gun in his hand. Do you? How likely is that? Not very. The police claim they told him to stay in the car - maybe he heard "get out of the car." Regardless only a fool with get out of a car holding a gun in his hand when there are several police people standing there.
Why should any of us respect and obey the law when our police won't?
19
You mean perhaps "...when some police won't?"
4
"Our police won't"? Generalize much? Some police won't; most do. Just like most protesters are peaceful, some are criminal looters. What's your point? We should arrest ALL protesters?
7
I suggest you try being a cop and have to make split-second decisions, in the dark, about whether someone is reaching for a gun or has a real gun versus a look-alike bb gun. Tough job, even for the vast majority of cops who are dedicated, well trained and competent. If all people -- black or white -- would follow the right protocol when stopped by police, few if any would be shot. Keep your hands up high, don't make any sudden movements, don't reach for anything, cooperate, and talk the officer through what you're doing and why. I did these things when I was mistakenly pulled over one night on a suspicion of armed robbery because I happened to be driving a vehicle that fit the robber's profile. Two officers had guns pointed at my head. I showed them my hands out the car window and followed their orders until they checked my license and tags and cleared me. Scary for sure, but I didn't get shot because I complied and played it cool and smart.
The police are claiming he was armed.
So what if he was armed. That doesn't justify killing him.
It is legal to be armed, and to carry.
So the police policy is that they can kill armed citizens if they "feel threatened"?
That can justify almost any police homicide.
So what if he was armed. That doesn't justify killing him.
It is legal to be armed, and to carry.
So the police policy is that they can kill armed citizens if they "feel threatened"?
That can justify almost any police homicide.
42
You need a permit to own and carry a gun in NC. Even if you have a permit if a police officer tells you to put it down you must put it down. Same for a knife.
69
The lunacy starts when you arm the civilian population this way.
7
You may be interested to learn that the police officer's feelings, so long as they are deemed by other investigating officers to be the feelings of a "reasonable" police officer under the totality of the circumstances, are, in fact, the only thing used to judge whether the shooting is justified.
This horrible reality is at the center of our little problem.
—As is the equally horrible reality that there isn't any obviously better way to do it.
As for your claim and your amendment #2, it's a fine thing, I'm sure. But it's not true that "it's legal to be armed, and to carry" in all circumstances. Convicted felons, for example, are most often forbidden to carry firearms. Alton Sterling is a fine example. He died primarily because he opted to carry a gun anyway.
Most police shootings and killings are perfectly reasonable, given the threats they perceive. But enough are not, and plenty more are the result of "perceived" threats that weren't really real. Police everywhere are trained on elaborate video game systems to be hyper-vigilant. We're way overdue to examine critically the culture these training systems have created.
(And, incidentally, to repeal the Second Amendment)
This horrible reality is at the center of our little problem.
—As is the equally horrible reality that there isn't any obviously better way to do it.
As for your claim and your amendment #2, it's a fine thing, I'm sure. But it's not true that "it's legal to be armed, and to carry" in all circumstances. Convicted felons, for example, are most often forbidden to carry firearms. Alton Sterling is a fine example. He died primarily because he opted to carry a gun anyway.
Most police shootings and killings are perfectly reasonable, given the threats they perceive. But enough are not, and plenty more are the result of "perceived" threats that weren't really real. Police everywhere are trained on elaborate video game systems to be hyper-vigilant. We're way overdue to examine critically the culture these training systems have created.
(And, incidentally, to repeal the Second Amendment)
4
OK, the officeris Black so was the victim. There have been over 700 persons killed by police this year. 163 are Black. Profiling? I don't think so. Block a highway, open trucks and throw the contents out on the road. I don't think so. I am voting for Clinton, but Black Lives Matter is a fraud. All lives matter and that includes that Black officer in Charlotte. Millions of us have had it. Stop the excuses, a gun pulled in front of a police officer is a threat. Again, stop it.
From now on in a potential riot, get a bull horn and say "Cease and Desist". That doesn't work then use tear gas. That doesn't work then ready aim and fire into the air. Still coming, lower the guns and repeat fire. Most of us have had it and continuation of this will put Trump in the White House. See the reaction then.
From now on in a potential riot, get a bull horn and say "Cease and Desist". That doesn't work then use tear gas. That doesn't work then ready aim and fire into the air. Still coming, lower the guns and repeat fire. Most of us have had it and continuation of this will put Trump in the White House. See the reaction then.
96
I like where you're going with Trump gaining momentum bit.
And today trump spoke of one of my favorite, common sense policies that worked wonderfully well here in NYC: STOP AND FRISK. All day and all night! (until the ridiculously Liberal DeBlasio interfered)
We law abiding, tax payers shouldn't have to live with these thugs carrying weapons all around us. How about our rights?
In 2013: 17% of 89,000 "stop and frisks" resulted in a confiscated knife or gun. That's 25k weapons seized. What a beautiful program. Just stop more Caucasians too appease the liberals and improve the race ratio. Just get the weapons off the street.
And today trump spoke of one of my favorite, common sense policies that worked wonderfully well here in NYC: STOP AND FRISK. All day and all night! (until the ridiculously Liberal DeBlasio interfered)
We law abiding, tax payers shouldn't have to live with these thugs carrying weapons all around us. How about our rights?
In 2013: 17% of 89,000 "stop and frisks" resulted in a confiscated knife or gun. That's 25k weapons seized. What a beautiful program. Just stop more Caucasians too appease the liberals and improve the race ratio. Just get the weapons off the street.
4
I didn't know rioting was punishable by summary execution.
If having a gun is my "right bestowed by the 2nd Amendment" (and Free Speech is my right bestowed by the First Amendment), and many, mostly white people in Texas, Florida, Arizona and many other states can walk around brandishing guns, how can "having a gun" completely justify the police shooting me when I disagree with them? If I feel threatened, is is only a matter of who shoots first?
This is like the Wild West, but with many more "sheriffs" who justifiably feel threatened by all the Americans with a gun but with no 'neon sign' on their forehead indicating they have no bad intentions. I wonder why none of the whites who brandished guns the whole time they were committing illegal acts in occupying the Malheaur NWR were not immediatly shot?
This is like the Wild West, but with many more "sheriffs" who justifiably feel threatened by all the Americans with a gun but with no 'neon sign' on their forehead indicating they have no bad intentions. I wonder why none of the whites who brandished guns the whole time they were committing illegal acts in occupying the Malheaur NWR were not immediatly shot?
53
One of the biggest frauds foisted upon the the American public is that the second amendment is about guns. The second amendment is about the right of a sovereign state to maintain a professional military. There was only one dictionary in the 18th century. It was Samuel Johnson''s Dictionary of the English Language. Militia and arms are clearly defined and have only one meaning. The Supreme Court interpretation is clearly a political fraud. In any case in most jurisdictions Blacks could not carry guns and in North Carolina Blacks carrying books was a crime punishable by death.
In any case it is 2016 not 1776 or 1791 and we have a problem. Instead of arguing right or wrong let's sit down and see if we can solve the problem. Determining who is right and who is wrong comes later with truth and reconciliation.
In any case it is 2016 not 1776 or 1791 and we have a problem. Instead of arguing right or wrong let's sit down and see if we can solve the problem. Determining who is right and who is wrong comes later with truth and reconciliation.
1
They told him to drop it.
In this country, we agree to wait at red lights, pay taxes and obey the cops.
Are some cops power-hungry misfits? Yes.
We video them and shame them, but if they tell us to drop a gun, we drop it.
In this country, we agree to wait at red lights, pay taxes and obey the cops.
Are some cops power-hungry misfits? Yes.
We video them and shame them, but if they tell us to drop a gun, we drop it.
Unfortunately you aren't informed, and the times is woefully lacking in journalistic diligence, that this man was a convicted violent criminal.You are lose many rights when you commit crimes. There is a wild west, and I do not see very much evidence supporting that it is the police. 700 police killings this year, 163 black people killed by police. This is not an epidemic. Blacks on black murder in the 13-34 age group, the highest cause of death for that demographic, does appear to be a more serious issue by several orders of magnitude.
Reality check every person has right to gun for self protection . Question is why shot some one with gun .its wasnt fired .
10
Reality check: they told him to drop it and he didn't.
Your "right" to carry a gun ends when a policeman tells you to drop it--even in Texas.
Your "right" to carry a gun ends when a policeman tells you to drop it--even in Texas.
If a white man had a gun - he or she would be alive. Unless there is a collective efforts made at all fronts in the city, local, state and federal, this will continue. Cops and those who prosecute them are on the same side. Justice will not be done.
Don't blame those who are angry and taking out their frustration.
Tulsa police officer is not arrested but an average civilian will be behind bars right away. Mistakes were made in Charlotte and Tulsa. Police officers shall pay the price. PERIOD.
Don't blame those who are angry and taking out their frustration.
Tulsa police officer is not arrested but an average civilian will be behind bars right away. Mistakes were made in Charlotte and Tulsa. Police officers shall pay the price. PERIOD.
23
racist baloney.... check out this WHITE guy, he just had a knife and he was blown away.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/albuquerque-officers-intentionally-killed-ho...
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/albuquerque-officers-intentionally-killed-ho...
As long as the consequence is paid vacation, the slaughter will continue.
The majority of people shot and killed by police are white, but you don't hear about them because nobody plays the race card or steals TVs from Walmart in response.
Could anybody explain what the cops were doing on the video after the shooting ?
The police video seems to show them impose a maximum of bodies between the in car camera and the scene proper when backing up right after the man collapses.
The police video seems to show them impose a maximum of bodies between the in car camera and the scene proper when backing up right after the man collapses.
20
Eric: You are thinking about the Tulsa shooting. This is the Charlotte shooting.
That is Mr. Crutcher the man that police killed in Tulsa not Mr. Scott who was killed in Charlotte yesterday afternoon. We have not been shown any videos of Mr. Scott.
When the police told him to get out of his car, what did they plan on doing with him? Were they arresting him? For what?
57
They were searching for another suspect. Instead of cooperating with the CharMeck police -- he chose a different path and a black officer shot a black civilian.
7
They didn't tell him to get out of his car: he did that himself, with a gun.
Police admit that they initiated the confrontation. According to their version of events, they were in the area looking for a suspect but confronted this civilian instead because they saw that he was armed. It's not illegal to be armed though in an open carry state. And police only claim to have been threatened after they initiated the confrontation. So when they initiated the confrontation, what were police planning on doing with him?
Again and again, needless tragedy on tragedy. Could this be what being at war for 15 years with no end in view have resulted in? I am so saddened.
14
Yes, Nancy. Yes. This is what our world living in a swirl of war has brought about. I have no doubt.
4
I believe it is related. Police Departments have become the job Corp for former military.
Easy access to guns ...
Open carry laws ...
Police facing hidden guns under car seats, in people's pockets ...
No room for mistakes ...
America's gun fetish ...
Tragedies like this ...
All are to blame.
Open carry laws ...
Police facing hidden guns under car seats, in people's pockets ...
No room for mistakes ...
America's gun fetish ...
Tragedies like this ...
All are to blame.
55
Oh yes, certainly not the progressive policies that have kept blacks down for 50 years.
5
@furrow
And don't forget the Jim Crow laws that have kept, and are still keeping Blacks down for over 50 years.....
And don't forget the Jim Crow laws that have kept, and are still keeping Blacks down for over 50 years.....
they are still examining police video?
9
That's what they say when they have been caught in a lie.
I admit it. I've lost count. I don't know how many times I've seen these same headlines: "Unarmed Black Shot and Killed by Police".
When I saw the video of this incident involving Mr. Crutcher, once again I was fathomless -- unable to understand or comprehend what I was seeing.
Weren't his hands held above his head?....Didn't anybody see that?
Aren't we supposed to be learning something fromall this?
How often is it supposed to happen?
Would it happen to a White person?
Or, maybe this is all just a dry run for what lay ahead if Donald Trump is President.
I fear for this country.
I fear this country.
When I saw the video of this incident involving Mr. Crutcher, once again I was fathomless -- unable to understand or comprehend what I was seeing.
Weren't his hands held above his head?....Didn't anybody see that?
Aren't we supposed to be learning something fromall this?
How often is it supposed to happen?
Would it happen to a White person?
Or, maybe this is all just a dry run for what lay ahead if Donald Trump is President.
I fear for this country.
I fear this country.
50
Yes, this does happen to white people. A lot. There are far more white people than black people killed by police -- most justified, a few not. The only difference is that white people don't play a race card, steal TVs from Walmart, give rowdy press conferences or overturn vehicles in response.
Did you fail to notice this is happening under an African American president?
@N. Smith,
"To date, law enforcement officials have fatally shot 702 people this year, 163 of them black men, according to a Washington Post database tracking fatal police shootings."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/2016/09/21/cba5221c-800b-11e6-8d...
"To date, law enforcement officials have fatally shot 702 people this year, 163 of them black men, according to a Washington Post database tracking fatal police shootings."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/2016/09/21/cba5221c-800b-11e6-8d...
Whenever we have one of these unfortunate police shootings I am always amazed at the lack of criticism of our nations gun policy's. I believe this kind of event only increases with the rapid proliferation of guns in our society, as has been the case over the last eight years. The police will continue act on the fear that any citizen could be armed. Neighborhoods with more guns and more violence will get more than their share of tragedies and the national discussion of guns will stall over a debate on prejudice.
35
The guns in these communities are very likely not obtained legally. (I feel like captain obvious)
4
Today I heard a guy on XM radio say that it never occurred to him to have "the talk" with his kids about how to behave around the police. Right, I thought, a middle-class white man.
20
This attitude enables officers who take it upon themselves to act as judge, jury and executioner. That is police malpractice. It's not what we hire them to do. They do not have a right to kill just because someone is not following orders. Call for backup. Use a stun gun. Any officer who can't handle the stress of the job should quit.
6
I was stopped at a nighttime checkpoint a couple of months ago and I was honestly nervous after having seen so many instances of police misconduct. It was after midnight and I had to reach over to my glove box to get my license and registration. I am thankful that the policeman who stopped me was relaxed and patient and I am sure most policemen are like that. But I was honestly scared for a second. All people, regardless of color, sex, age, or nationality, deserve to be treated well by police. I'm afraid it will take years for people to begin to implicitly trust police again.
1
I believe the officer who shot Mr. Scot is Black. How can the shooting be an act of racism?
85
They are police first.
Then whatever race they are somewhere down the line.
Then whatever race they are somewhere down the line.
1
This would be because the facts don't matter when young African Americans need an excuse to riot, steal, destroy property, and attempt to kill police and firefighters.
Why would the facts matter when young black men need to get out and destroy their neighborhoods, attack their neighbors, and assault police?
Why would the facts matter when young black men need to get out and destroy their neighborhoods, attack their neighbors, and assault police?
14
Because for most cops their dominant culture is the police force. It overrides all considerations of race identity. That is where there loyalty lies and they will cover for each other beyond all reason.
2
Police and their cruisers should be randomly stopped and searched/frisked by civilian review panelists.
We have to dry up the scourge of "The Gun" and "Drugs" that somehow manage to get in the hand or pockets of the victims of police executions and brutality.
From the time they go out on patrol to the time they return, their body camera's should never be allowed to be off. Then hopefully the lies will end. Hopefully the bad actors will resign from the department, because they won't be able to get their kicks from abusing or murdering citizens with impunity anymore.
We have to dry up the scourge of "The Gun" and "Drugs" that somehow manage to get in the hand or pockets of the victims of police executions and brutality.
From the time they go out on patrol to the time they return, their body camera's should never be allowed to be off. Then hopefully the lies will end. Hopefully the bad actors will resign from the department, because they won't be able to get their kicks from abusing or murdering citizens with impunity anymore.
17
I agree. Now the cops say they found "PCP" in the guy's car. Yeah, I have not heard of PCP being around since the 1970's.
4
And, they should be drugged tested immediately after any "event."
Apparently this guy had a magazine rather than a book.
33
Cute.
4
I guess the second amendment only applies to certain people.
24
he was waiting to pick up his son from a school bus ?
and he exits his car holding a gun ?
49
Here's a suggestion. Wait till the evidence is in. Don't be part of the problem.
9
Apparently, yes. He probably exiting the car with his gun because the police were there. People do crazy things because people are unpredictable and unstable, depending on their mental state. Don't blame the police for doing their job.
7
Yes, that scenario is difficult to believe or understand.
2
It's incredible that in North Carolina, Whites walk around with AK-47 and do not get shot. Everyone in the state has a gun but the second police kills a Black man, the first thing they say is he was armed. What about the thousands of whites with guns? Why don't they get shot? They have guns on them.
63
I'll go out on a limb and say they did not point their guns at uniformed police officers.
21
Er, because they're not brandishing them at police?
29
They don't get shot???
If they brandish them, threaten officers, fail to comply with orders to drop them, you think they won't suffer the same fate?
If they brandish them, threaten officers, fail to comply with orders to drop them, you think they won't suffer the same fate?
36
RELEASE THE VIDEOS!
50
NC law passed this year by the republican legislature says they don't have to , ever.
"...protesters blocked Interstate 85 and looted material from a tractor-trailer before setting the cargo ablaze..."
Was the driver of the tractor-trailer somehow associated with the police activity? Did the "protestors" share any ot the "looted material" with the Scott family?
Also, what material was looted and what material was set ablaze?
Was the driver of the tractor-trailer somehow associated with the police activity? Did the "protestors" share any ot the "looted material" with the Scott family?
Also, what material was looted and what material was set ablaze?
47
I am told there was a time in this country's history when white racist agitators would run around proclaiming black men were raping white woman to whip whites into a angry mob frenzy. We live in an era where leftist activists do the same thing over any incident in this country that fits a certain racial dynamic. They proclaim there is genocide against blacks by white racist cops. They claim that it is only blacks who are dying at the hands of cops, even though this is not true. They take incidents of white on black violence that is no different than violence that happens 10 times a day in other racial configurations. In one instance the black student body president of University of Missouri made a series of tweets claim he was witnessing the KKK rounding up black students and shooting them. Needless to say this was untrue, yet there were no consequences to his attempt to enflame racial violence.
There are people on the left who are desperate to draw out the worst in people, yet they delude themselves into thinking they are doing good. When the constant cacophony of hysteria sends the rage into violence they claim no responsibility even when the anger was in large parts due to false information they continually spread.
There are people on the left who are desperate to draw out the worst in people, yet they delude themselves into thinking they are doing good. When the constant cacophony of hysteria sends the rage into violence they claim no responsibility even when the anger was in large parts due to false information they continually spread.
50
Scott had a criminal record in three states according to ABC news, that means he could not own a gun legally. He was shot after disobeying instructions and brandishing his weapon to a black cop working under a black police chief. Another Michael Brown case is in the making here. Will BLack lies matter and nytimes apologize for inciting racial hatred
96
Mr. Murphy added: “Everybody in Charlotte should be on notice that black people, today, we’re tired of this bull. We’re tired of being killed and nobody saying nothing."
-------------------
"Saying nothing" = Million$ in property damage, lawsuits, medical bills for assaulted passers-by, shop owners, cops, medics, etc. Capped by multi-million $$ payouts to by city & state agencies to the plaintiffs. Check Freddy Gray and Michael Brown, each with lengthy criminal records and killed while committing crimes. No matter! MILLION$ for their families, activist groups, and lawyers. Like the dead perps were Emmett Till, and James Meredith.
-------------------
"Saying nothing" = Million$ in property damage, lawsuits, medical bills for assaulted passers-by, shop owners, cops, medics, etc. Capped by multi-million $$ payouts to by city & state agencies to the plaintiffs. Check Freddy Gray and Michael Brown, each with lengthy criminal records and killed while committing crimes. No matter! MILLION$ for their families, activist groups, and lawyers. Like the dead perps were Emmett Till, and James Meredith.
47
The government needs to prepare a public service infomercial to teach all people both black and white how to safely comply with police requests.
35
It's common sense. When you have an encounter with a cop, you follow the cops orders closely. I have had encountered with cops, I couldn't imagine challenging or ignoring their orders. They have to react quickly. Certainly wouldn't want to give the wrong signal.
When a cop pulls me over, I put both hands on the top of the steering wheel and remain in the car until to directed to do otherwise. I am not an idiot.
When a cop pulls me over, I put both hands on the top of the steering wheel and remain in the car until to directed to do otherwise. I am not an idiot.
Putting your hands up is complying but he was murdered anyway.
The problem we have is a lack of standards across the law enforcement community. It seems odd to me that the federal government sets standards for things like motorcycle helmets and food packaging, but has no standards for someone acting under color of law. Why don’t we have mandatory federal civil rights training for police officers? They should need to obtain a federal license that can be revoked. And why don’t we require police officers to carry personal insurance in case they are held liable for wrongdoing? We require drivers to have a license and insurance to operate a car. Why don’t we have similar standards for police officers?
11
Constitutionally, it's not a federal matter. The federal government gets around that problem in things like speed limits (also not federal matters) by tying federal highway funding to states' cooperating with the federal government's preferred standards.
There is no federal helmet law and many states have no helmet laws at all.
There is no federal helmet law and many states have no helmet laws at all.
I didn’t say there was a federal helmet law. The Department of Transportation has regulations for the manufacture of motorcycle helmets.
The federal government has power over the states. They can make virtually anything a federal issue. Did you know that the federal government now requires all Americans to buy health insurance or pay a fine? If they can do that, then they can require people acting under color of law to be certified. The only thing standing in the way of such legislation is the Republicans, because they believe in more power to the states.
The federal government has power over the states. They can make virtually anything a federal issue. Did you know that the federal government now requires all Americans to buy health insurance or pay a fine? If they can do that, then they can require people acting under color of law to be certified. The only thing standing in the way of such legislation is the Republicans, because they believe in more power to the states.
Police are not in the business of executing people (with some odd exceptions). Almost every case over the past two years has a much more complex backstory than what the viral videos show in the immediate aftermath. In this case, I'm wondering, why would a Black policeman shoot a Black citizen, without any provocation? It just doesn't ring true or make sense, so the police version DOES make more rational sense to me. I think the question I keep asking myself is why can't people under drawn weapons from the police follow police instructions - to the T?
61
Why don't you try talking to some black people about that. You will find it most illuminating.
8
Why don't you put down the anecdotes and look at the statistics. Blacks are twice as likely to kill police as other demographics. The highest cause of death in young black men is homicide. The so-called victim in this instance was a convicted violent criminal who, among other things, was convicted of a violent crime with a deadly weapon against a young lady.
This is extremely touchy.
Can an officer communicate an order without firing his weapon?
Can an individual understand that order and prevent getting shot?
What percentage of people in this country are on drugs?..on psychotropic medication? Need psychotropic medication? Are drunk? Don't understand English well? etc...Can they understand an order AND do they know "how to behave" when in a seemingly dangerous position "in the cop's eyes" and "perspective"?
Why should a trigger happy cop's "perspective" cost someone their lives?
Can an officer communicate an order without firing his weapon?
Can an individual understand that order and prevent getting shot?
What percentage of people in this country are on drugs?..on psychotropic medication? Need psychotropic medication? Are drunk? Don't understand English well? etc...Can they understand an order AND do they know "how to behave" when in a seemingly dangerous position "in the cop's eyes" and "perspective"?
Why should a trigger happy cop's "perspective" cost someone their lives?
12
Why would a large black man ignore repeated commands from a smaller white female cop with a gun pointed at his back? Did he want martyrdom?
9
Even people who don't speak English are smart enough to know you don't brandish a gun in the direction of police.
People on drugs, on psychotropic medication, who need psychotropic medication, and/or are drunk likewise should not wave guns around and put cops in fear of their lives.
This is not touchy, it is common sense.
People on drugs, on psychotropic medication, who need psychotropic medication, and/or are drunk likewise should not wave guns around and put cops in fear of their lives.
This is not touchy, it is common sense.
10
As a deputy sheriff in a small town I have yet to encounter a incident like this yet. That being said my department had put us through training recently that I feel everyone should try. Basically the training is standing in front of a large screen and a scenario plays in front of you. It could be a domestic or traffic stop or something as simple as finding an open door to a business late at night and searching it. You have all the tools you would carry on duty and the system records if you use a taser or gun. It also displays where your shots hit should you use them. This training to me was very helpfully. It shows how quickly things can go bad. I just feel that everyone would benefit stepping in our shoes for a change and see what it can be like. Everyone on here is so quick to judge I can't make a verdict on what happen because I was not there so if it was a good shot or not I don't know. Everyone wants to say the other on not educated on the matter when in fact neither of them are no one knows what it is like to be other. All I know is that the only thing happening is everyone is on edge and hopefully for this country we figure a way to get along again.
46
It seems that it could be helpful for all police to have such training. We know all too well how fast things go wrong.
2
When did we ever get along in this country? I am almost 78, and I have never witness a time when there were harmonious race relations, between the races. Keep in mind during the Civil Rights Movement-- a time of nonviolence on the part of Blacks and their allies--- Black people were still killed. The apostle of nonviolence--the Reverend Dr. Martin King, Jr. was killed in Memphis, Tennessee.
4
There's a reason police are paid adequately and then rewarded with a nice pension at a time most people's pensions have disappeared.
You are paid well to face danger, and yes, put yourself at risk. If you don't want that, don't take the job.
But here's the training I'd like to hear you discuss, training on how to de-escalate situations using non-violent means. Obviously, some scenarios, this would not cover, but America's policemen need to learn how to engage with their salary payers without their weapons drawn for every situation.
You are paid well to face danger, and yes, put yourself at risk. If you don't want that, don't take the job.
But here's the training I'd like to hear you discuss, training on how to de-escalate situations using non-violent means. Obviously, some scenarios, this would not cover, but America's policemen need to learn how to engage with their salary payers without their weapons drawn for every situation.
I am so confused here. I had to reread the article again.
Fact #1: The Police Chief is Black
Fact #2: The Police Officer who shot the Black Man is Black.
Fact #3: The Black Chief said Keith, the victim, had a gun.
How is this a racist issue - the question I have is why did Keith have a gun especially picking up a son from school - I think that is the best question and none of those demonstrators are asking themselves these questions and that is why Black Lives Matter has little credibility. Go back to your roots and look at the philosophies of Martin Luther King.
Fact #1: The Police Chief is Black
Fact #2: The Police Officer who shot the Black Man is Black.
Fact #3: The Black Chief said Keith, the victim, had a gun.
How is this a racist issue - the question I have is why did Keith have a gun especially picking up a son from school - I think that is the best question and none of those demonstrators are asking themselves these questions and that is why Black Lives Matter has little credibility. Go back to your roots and look at the philosophies of Martin Luther King.
122
Why did Keith have a gun? It doesn't matter. It's perfectly legal to openly carry a gun in North Carolina. He didn't need yours or anyone else's permission to do so.
3
North Carolina is an open carry state. He was NOT picking his son up at school but rather sitting in his car in his apartment complex while he was waiting for the school bus to drop off his son.
4
@DER: It is an excuse for so-called leaders to mobilize their followers for political purposes. Each and every city needs to have a reason for avoiding the central issues that the leaders have failed to address since they became "leaders."
4
Whoa, it's prudent to wait for the findings of the investigation(s) before making a judgment one way or another.
35
Will police be investigating themselves like they do in my town?
How do they do it in your town that's different from other towns? Specifics would be good. I'm sincerely interested.
Imagine being able to sit on a perch hundreds of miles away and stir the cauldron of rage. Makes good copy. Makes for dead people, too.
38
Why won't we just wait for the white man's facts of what happened each time they kill a black man, woman or child? Why are we making the police uncomfortable? The killing of unarmed men and women has happened too often and for too many years. Want us to wait for white people to give people of color permission to get angry? You will be waiting a very long time.
Want us to wait until the police pay for killing us? Never Happen!
We do not need your permission to get angry by the loss of our family and friends!
Want us to wait until the police pay for killing us? Never Happen!
We do not need your permission to get angry by the loss of our family and friends!
35
You're right. Even if it's proved I'm a specific case that the police were correct in use of force with an armed person the emotional response is so understandable. There have been to many errors and sad events with children and mentally ill and even the deaf! We are all in this together black, white and everyone else. Peace and love must be present in our actions.
5
Did you ever wonder why 5% population commmits 50% of violent crimes? So should we only listen to the 5% version?
26
"Why won't we just wait for the white man's facts of what happened each time they kill a black man, woman or child?"
You have made a faulty race-based assumption. As reported in this article, the police officer responsible for the shooting is BLACK.
By all means, go ahead and get angry. But please, get angry about real facts, not assumptions.
You have made a faulty race-based assumption. As reported in this article, the police officer responsible for the shooting is BLACK.
By all means, go ahead and get angry. But please, get angry about real facts, not assumptions.
10
Cops' lives are in jeopardy 24/7. As guardians of law, one wonders if they are trained in close combat warfare. If they are, it remains unclear to an average observer about the exercising the option of non-firearm strategy . If a cop smartly uses his arm instead of firearm to quell a wrong-doer, the potential for violence stands a chance being minimized.
From the recent encounters in the past few years, it has become increasingly apparent that they rely a lot more on their firearms rather than their own arms. For many officers, a career in the military has been a precursor stage. The technic of mano a mano fighting an enemy, in the military can be an asset. If that training comes in handy in civilian adverse confrontations, gratuitous killings of the unarmed can hopefully be averted.
The blow-backs of premature reliance on guns by the cops can be loss of life of the innocent, apocalyptic riots, and damage to property. Furthermore, postmortems of the crime scenes and the dead can be quite disturbing.
From the recent encounters in the past few years, it has become increasingly apparent that they rely a lot more on their firearms rather than their own arms. For many officers, a career in the military has been a precursor stage. The technic of mano a mano fighting an enemy, in the military can be an asset. If that training comes in handy in civilian adverse confrontations, gratuitous killings of the unarmed can hopefully be averted.
The blow-backs of premature reliance on guns by the cops can be loss of life of the innocent, apocalyptic riots, and damage to property. Furthermore, postmortems of the crime scenes and the dead can be quite disturbing.
3
Cops live are not in fact in jeopardy 24/7 that is just another part of the lies being told the public.
4
13.5/100,000 deaths on the job for police. That is not a lie. It is by far not the most dangerous job, but dangerous? Absolutely.
No open carry law entitles anyone to ignore police commands while displaying an unholstered gun. To think otherwise is simply foolish.
Btw, the video posted to Facebook by a woman claiming to be the daughter of the deceased does the family no credit, regardless of the grief they may feel.
Btw, the video posted to Facebook by a woman claiming to be the daughter of the deceased does the family no credit, regardless of the grief they may feel.
39
Does anyone really believe the police account? I don't.
19
I believe it more than that of the activists who chant "Hands Up! Don't Shoot!" because they believe that Michael Brown wasn't actually a thug trying to kill a police officer.
22
Do you believe the Obama Holden run justice department investigation in Michael brown case? Or do you believe that every black law breaker has the right to do what he pleases?
10
Apparently its legal to carry a gun. But its also illegal to carry a gun. In fact you can get shot for just having the gun, even if maybe you aren't actually pointing it at anyone because you have your hands up. The police have tasers that can be used in the event of feeling imperilled. Why not use them?
8
I suppose they don't want to be shot dead before they get close enough to make use of the taser.
3
Even in an "open carry" state like North Carolina it is illegal for an ex-felon to own, let alone carry, a gun.
1
Dear Pealess,
Apparently you have little familiarity with the law at all. Open carry means you can carry a gun. It does not mean you can draw that gun and point it at people, or use it, even in the holster, to threaten people in any way. It does not mean you can bring your gun to a riot and shoot somebody because he elbowed you or smelled too sweaty.
Tasers often don't work, can kill people anyway, and are short-range and even less accurate than a pistol. When somebody pulls out a gun on a cop, the cop's best move is still to shoot them in the torso, and that's why they're trained to do that.
Apparently you have little familiarity with the law at all. Open carry means you can carry a gun. It does not mean you can draw that gun and point it at people, or use it, even in the holster, to threaten people in any way. It does not mean you can bring your gun to a riot and shoot somebody because he elbowed you or smelled too sweaty.
Tasers often don't work, can kill people anyway, and are short-range and even less accurate than a pistol. When somebody pulls out a gun on a cop, the cop's best move is still to shoot them in the torso, and that's why they're trained to do that.
1
When the police's version of events differs so markedly from that of the protesters and looters, the job of journalists ought to be to uncover the truth, not simply to treat the two versions as equal options that can be accepted by readers according to their biases. I sincerely hope that the Times will follow up on this story in order to present a definitive answer to the questions that are not answered here: did the man have a gun in his hand or not? If he did, did he refuse to comply with police orders to drop it, or was he shot without warning?
165
David: your point is self-evident, and for 100 years that is what the Times has endeavored to do in cases such as this.
5
"When the police's version of events differs so markedly from that of the protesters and looters..."
Hmm, remember in Ferguson, Mo. when many witnesses swore that Michael Brown had his hands up & was surrendering to police when he was shot? It wasn't true, as the DOJ investigation showed.
The recollections of witnesses can be wildly incorrect. And the views of "protesters" and "looters" -- who by definition have made up their mind as to what took place -- are more unreliable still. Let a thorough investigation take place, sift through all the video and audio evidence, and find out what really happened here. If the DOJ feels there's a need for them to get involved, them so be it.
Hmm, remember in Ferguson, Mo. when many witnesses swore that Michael Brown had his hands up & was surrendering to police when he was shot? It wasn't true, as the DOJ investigation showed.
The recollections of witnesses can be wildly incorrect. And the views of "protesters" and "looters" -- who by definition have made up their mind as to what took place -- are more unreliable still. Let a thorough investigation take place, sift through all the video and audio evidence, and find out what really happened here. If the DOJ feels there's a need for them to get involved, them so be it.
9
Modern journalism means both sides should be reported equally, even if one side is clearly wrong.
3
Admittedly, all of the facts are not in, or at least proven. But the shooting officer and the police chief are both black, and they found a gun, not a book. So the question beckons:
When it becomes reasonably clear that this was not a racial incident, and perhaps a fully justifiable shooting, on what page of the NYT will the apology appear for needlessly fanning the flames of racism when no such conduct occurred?
When it becomes reasonably clear that this was not a racial incident, and perhaps a fully justifiable shooting, on what page of the NYT will the apology appear for needlessly fanning the flames of racism when no such conduct occurred?
121
Chris,
If the video shows a gun you can expect to find that Apology
showing up on the same page that the Apology for the mis-reporting
of the Ferguson shooting was printed on - which was none.
If the video shows a gun you can expect to find that Apology
showing up on the same page that the Apology for the mis-reporting
of the Ferguson shooting was printed on - which was none.
13
why is it not a racial incident?
So, as a thought experiment, let's say the cops are black and the man getting out of the car is white. How likely is it, in that scenario, that the the man would be shot to death.
1
According to Georges Sorel, the masses need myths to incite social action and purifying change. Myths cannot be proven wrong, as they are based upon a group consciousness which rejects scientific rationalism. The myth of law enforcement as the greatest danger to black men or as the ruthless arm of a racist government is useful in two ways: when activists are successful, their power and message grows; when unsuccessful, the servility of their lot is emphasized.
29
Interesting, but one may ask, what about the myth of the infallibility, high mindedness, and courage in the face of depravity, of our police? Are we not witnessing the clash of two myths, rather than the earnest and sober-minded search for truth?
1
This nation is being held hostage by fanatics on both sides. When it comes to this issue there are people who are in denial that the police kill people in situations that are unwarranted. On the other hand, you have people who take any situation of white on black violence, especially when it involves cops, and forms a narrative that has no basis for facts. There are people who are actively seeking to incite anger by spreading rumors as truth. I see on my friends social media page that "witnesses say he was unarmed". When I look at the claim it turns out it is a friend or neighbor of the victim. I'm not saying it isn't possible they are telling the truth, but I wouldn't consider the word of someone with a dog in the fight to be considered necessarily the truth either. The problem isn't that one side is honest and seeks the truth and justice while the other is evil. The problem is both sides see things is self serving ways and are willing to bend the truth in order to fir their preconceived biases and narratives. If 1 out of every 10 black men killed by the KKK was a murderer it doesn't give them a free pass for the 9 innocence they killed. Likewise, if 1 out of 10 claims of police brutality is true activists don't get a free pass for the 9 times they cried wolf. Both sides are void of reason, integrity, and balance.
22
Actually, the KKK doesn't get a pass for killing the 1 man who is a murderer, either.
4
I'm not at all surprised that before Fall 2016 even arrived, Chicago has had more gun deaths than in all 4 seasons of 2015; more than NYC and Los Angeles, combined. Margaret Mead, or Konrad Lorenz, would be hard-pressed to explain such tribal atavism. Imagine what it would be like without a police force.
61
And who has ever, anywhere, called for eliminating police forces? Sorry, but this is a straw man.
6
How much black-on-black Chicago violence has to happen before Eric Holder and Barack Obama hold a press conference like they have for every individual white-on-black violence incident? When will Al Sharpton's sage advice be heard?
12
"Imagine what it would be like without a police force."
There is no need to imagine. In Chicago, were the mantra for the cops on the street is, "stay fetal", the results are self evident.
There is no need to imagine. In Chicago, were the mantra for the cops on the street is, "stay fetal", the results are self evident.
2
What happened to all those calls from liberals to wait until we have all the facts before making conclusions that I heard when a "terrorist" detonated a "bomb" in NYC over the weekend? All I hear now is an officer being labeled a racist based on essentially no information.
106
This seems to be a talking point but I'll address it anyway. The people protesting in the street seem to be venting frustration with how they are treated by police. People on the Internet seem to be saying "something's fishy here". That isn't jumping to conclusions; it's reserving judgement. Jumping to conclusions would be blindly accept statements made by the people who killed this man, without supporting evidence or an independent investigation.
9
I'm watching rioting and looting live on TV. A CNN reporter was just assaulted by a protester. Is that simply voicing frustration while reserving judgement? I think not.
13
Why do you have to accept anyone's statements at this point?
We are building back to the racial unrest when Lyndon Johnson was president and cities from Newark to Detroit were destroyed by rioting never to recover, Obama cannot sit in the Rose Garden waiting for his term to expire. He needs to walk the streets and meet with Black people and with police.
32
It wasn't just then. Los Angeles was decimated in the early 1990s. The solution seems to be the same every time: open the federal spigot and pour money in. Several billion to Baltimore most recently.
Maybe that is why nothing changes. But that is not politic. Particularly not in an election year.
Actually, the President has been quite active in these matters, his administration being more involved than any within memory.
Maybe that is why nothing changes. But that is not politic. Particularly not in an election year.
Actually, the President has been quite active in these matters, his administration being more involved than any within memory.
9
I think that donald - lumpy - trump should walk the streets - it would be wonderful - trust me.
7
The Republican governors of those states should walk the streets; their party bears much of the burden for this crisis. With their patron the NRA they've kept the country from having common sense gun laws that would reduce the number of illegal guns, save lives and no doubt relieve some of the anxiety experienced by law enforcement that drives these incidents. Pres. Obama has been an exemplary leader on the issue of crime and gun violence. He's been welcomed in many communities and not so welcome in others, if you recall. (In Oregon, which was a majority of white people, he was told to stay away by victims' families after a mass shooting.) And generally speaking, the political will to address this has to come from the local level. Blaming the president is shaking your fist at the clouds. Where are their congresspeople on those streets? They're probably hiding in shame.
We have a black chief-of-police and black shootist cop. The issue can not be racism; the issue is guns. This translates to easy gun access for the non-police and horribly trained police. Even the terrorist from New York and New Jersey was able to get a gun.
30
"The issue can not be racism; the issue is guns." NO! The issues are people who use guns, or exploding pressure cookers or knives or grenades and anything else they can find to kill people with. People kill people. Keep in mind that slaughter on our highways is twice as great as by guns. More people are maimed, permanently crippled, disabled, killed, burned and torn to pieces every day on the highways but you don't blame the vehicles and the ease with which they are procured. More children too are smashed to pieces in cars than by guns. Then number of people who lives are totally wrecked by people who drive drunk or texting or under the influence of drugs is always put aside. Its too easy to get a car. Its too easy to get a truck or recreational vehicle. Its too easy to get alcohol and drugs or a smart phone. Stop blaming objects. People are responsible. Drunk, drugged, irresponsible people. Even the terrorists were able to find a car! Or hide in boat. Or take a train or plane. Its people! People! People are the killers and terrorists!
14
Maybe the issue is black guys not following instructions, in this case probably pulling a gun. I don't care what the race or gender when police issue instructions and they are not followed the situation immediately becomes escalated. Our police like to go home to their families so any action that can be interpenetrated as threatening is and should be acted upon, these things unfold very rapidly. There is seldom time for a full and complete analysis decisions must be made quickly, and unfortunately sometimes the decision is wrong.
20
The notion that there can be no anti-black racism at issue where the shooting officer and police chief are both black is sophomoric. All police officers, to one extent or another, are under pressure to conform to the values of police culture. That is the very essence of how systemic racism, as opposed to personal bigotry, operates.
5
The cops need to be made to wear cameras with footage publicly available. Everyone is sick and tired of their abuse and rudeness, be it if you're black or whatever. They don't want to wear the cameras because their job is all about treating people rudely 24/7, lying, and collecting money for their employer. They need to wear cameras and they need to be tried when they commit a crime.
20
Why does a police body camera even have an on/off switch?
Officers check their weapons and equipment at the start of their shift to assure everything is working OK. Why can't the Watch Commander walk around the roll call meeting and, upon assigning an officer a camera, say, "Officer Smith, sign for camera serial number 1234XYZ." Upon signing, the officer clips it to his vest and the Watch Commander takes his key (THE ONLY LEGAL ON/OFF KEY) and turns it on. From then on it can not be legally turned off.
During the officer's shift, the camera uploads it's contents every x seconds to a server owned by the DA NOT a server controlled by the Police. The camera gets turned off at the end of the shift by the Watch Commander. Period. Don't like those rules? You don't qualify to carry a badge and gun with authorization to use deadly force.
Officers check their weapons and equipment at the start of their shift to assure everything is working OK. Why can't the Watch Commander walk around the roll call meeting and, upon assigning an officer a camera, say, "Officer Smith, sign for camera serial number 1234XYZ." Upon signing, the officer clips it to his vest and the Watch Commander takes his key (THE ONLY LEGAL ON/OFF KEY) and turns it on. From then on it can not be legally turned off.
During the officer's shift, the camera uploads it's contents every x seconds to a server owned by the DA NOT a server controlled by the Police. The camera gets turned off at the end of the shift by the Watch Commander. Period. Don't like those rules? You don't qualify to carry a badge and gun with authorization to use deadly force.
35
Joe, you're advocating for something ridiculously invasive. What about work breaks and bathroom stops? That's the watch commander's business too? Even cops have a right to privacy.
9
Two problems here: 1. Officers have the right to privacy when using the bathroom. 2. Which stone gets squeezed to pay for the tech? Here in Chicago, half the dashboard cams don't work because there's no money for basic maintenance, let alone upgrades. And that's with a 50% increase in property taxes.
4
"Why does a police body camera even have an on/off switch?"
This is a common question, but it's because Police deal with people and situations everyday that they're not allowed to film. Also, the cameras don't have enough storage space on board to record a full shift without interruption, but that's not the main reason.
This is a common question, but it's because Police deal with people and situations everyday that they're not allowed to film. Also, the cameras don't have enough storage space on board to record a full shift without interruption, but that's not the main reason.
4
The reflexive criticsm of the police when facts are not known is borferline insanity.
78
It isn't reflexive but rather planned and organized prior to any #blacklivesmatter event, then executed via socialist media and front page attention by the NYT.
6
Innocent until proven guilty.
Just because the man is dead, does not mean we should presume him guilty.
5
There have been 62 people killed by police across the USA in the month of September alone. Young (13), old (84), men, women, latinos, whites, blacks, arabs...
On August 31 an 84 year old woman was killed by police in California. Did you read about it in the news? Did it hit the front page of the NY Times?
No. Why not?
Not because the killings were "justified" police killings. We don't know whether they were justified or not, because they are not being reported to us.
Apparently it's for some other reason. What might that reason be?
On August 31 an 84 year old woman was killed by police in California. Did you read about it in the news? Did it hit the front page of the NY Times?
No. Why not?
Not because the killings were "justified" police killings. We don't know whether they were justified or not, because they are not being reported to us.
Apparently it's for some other reason. What might that reason be?
58
And without video, most of these "justified" police killings "never happened".
1
The NYT sees racism in every sunrise.
20
White on black violence (especially if it's cops)
Islamaphobia (even if it's minor slights)
Anti-illegal immigration sentiment
rape by white affluent men
transphobia from the rightwing
If it doesn't fit the five categories above it is of little interest to the media, activists, and the left.
Islamaphobia (even if it's minor slights)
Anti-illegal immigration sentiment
rape by white affluent men
transphobia from the rightwing
If it doesn't fit the five categories above it is of little interest to the media, activists, and the left.
23
I don't see these types of events lessening. Many states have "open carry" laws, which allow people to opening carry and display weapons at any time, and almost any place. Police apparently are being trained to shoot first and ask questions later if they see someone with a gun. I'm not sure how these two situations are going to be reconciled. People who believe their 2nd Amendment rights allows them to display a weapons anytime or anywhere, will also have to be willing to accept that law enforcement has the problem of trying to determine if armed person is a threat. What the solution is, I really can't say at this point. We have outrage and grieve when law enforcement kill seemingly innocent people -some with a gun (the case in MN comes to mind), and we express grief and outrage when law enforcement officers are gunned down in the line of duty (Baton Rouge comes to mind). In between are many questionable shootings of people of all races by law enforcement. Blend this with the threat of terrorism, and we have a big problem to try and deal with.
24
I keep harping on this throughout this article's comments. Look up the actual laws. Open carry is not what you think it is. There are restrictions on how and where a person can carry a gun.
12
you touch a very good point here. So I am walking down a street in Texas where open carry is allowed I guess everywhere except government offices (imagine that), and I see a man walking toward me in the crowd carrying a pistol on his belt. Am I justified in yelling at him to drop his weapon (I am in mortal fear for my life) and he doesn't; I can shoot him. right? Or if I call a policeman because I feel endangered is the policeman allowed to tell the man (tell not ask mind you) to drop the weapon, or because I feel endangered, and not the policeman, is everything just hunky dory.
I guess the point is just because someone won't allow the police to over ride what the pro gun crowd calls a second amendment right, then they are shot.
I know what I read (sort of) and aren't most of the shootings involving blacks taking place down south; interesting to see the statistics on that, sort of hope I am wrong
What a mess, too many guns for everyone, police and private a major change to less violence is needed badly.
I guess the point is just because someone won't allow the police to over ride what the pro gun crowd calls a second amendment right, then they are shot.
I know what I read (sort of) and aren't most of the shootings involving blacks taking place down south; interesting to see the statistics on that, sort of hope I am wrong
What a mess, too many guns for everyone, police and private a major change to less violence is needed badly.
5
Oh yah! Like we never heard of a police officer planting a gun on some poor dead civilian (black or otherwise but especially black) he just shot by mistake. Oh dear! Police would never ever do that! Would they???
You know I am so damned tired of hearing about police killing civilians I just want it to stop. It's "serve and protect" not "mistreat and kill" that is supposed to be the motto of law enforcement. It really time that something is done about this situation.
I don't blame the people of Charlotte for demonstrating at all!
You know I am so damned tired of hearing about police killing civilians I just want it to stop. It's "serve and protect" not "mistreat and kill" that is supposed to be the motto of law enforcement. It really time that something is done about this situation.
I don't blame the people of Charlotte for demonstrating at all!
20
if the gun that the police found is not registered to this guy then you are right
Did the cops also plant a criminal record in three states on me Scott?
3
You call rioting with wanton destruction of property "demonstrating"? And it's perfectly plausible the guy had a gun: he had a rap sheet a mile long, including felonious assault.
7
What was the name of the book he was reading while he waited in the car and was subsequently carrying? His family would probably be aware of his most current reading material and whatever book he was most likely also reading at home would now be missing. A little investigation about the book details might add clarity and veracity to the book story.
Even if he did have a book, is there any reason offered why he felt it necessary to exit his vehicle with police swarming the area? That is puzzling for anyone to do other than perhaps a teenager. Did a policeman tell him to exit the car? And could anyone explain why he would have carried that book with him as he got out? Perhaps to show the police that he was just an ordinary guy reading a book? Of course, that might have been an absent minded act, but most adults do know that if you see police circling any location that you don't do anything without being commanded.
It's even a sadder situation when you consider that this was a man waiting for his son's school bus who was shot. Certainly, he wasn't the absentee father that so many like to characterize as typical. It seems so out of character for a man to change without provocation from doing a fatherly deed to getting out of his vehicle and confronting police with a gun.
Even if he did have a book, is there any reason offered why he felt it necessary to exit his vehicle with police swarming the area? That is puzzling for anyone to do other than perhaps a teenager. Did a policeman tell him to exit the car? And could anyone explain why he would have carried that book with him as he got out? Perhaps to show the police that he was just an ordinary guy reading a book? Of course, that might have been an absent minded act, but most adults do know that if you see police circling any location that you don't do anything without being commanded.
It's even a sadder situation when you consider that this was a man waiting for his son's school bus who was shot. Certainly, he wasn't the absentee father that so many like to characterize as typical. It seems so out of character for a man to change without provocation from doing a fatherly deed to getting out of his vehicle and confronting police with a gun.
28
You can't have it both ways: guns available/encouraged for everyone AND police who kill at the first glimpse of a gun (including toys)--and who apparently think blacks always have one, whether they do or not. Please, please, let's get rid of the guns in this country! They kill innocents on a regular basis.
25
Yes, they found the gun. It had mysteriously been placed in another policeman's locker back at the station.
I'm sure there's a rational reason for the 24 hour delay in producing it.
I'm sure there's a rational reason for the 24 hour delay in producing it.
48
A planted gun or knife is commonly referred to as a "Throw-down".
8
Seems they also have dashcam footage of him coming out of the car with a gun.
5
I'm a "Black Lives Matter" supporter. This case seems clear cut. There was video....I don't understand why everyone didn't wait until the facts came in. Looting and the like diminishes our cause.
29
There is no video that has been released. I support BLM as well and so far, no video has been produced. Are you thinking of Mr. Crutcher who was shot a few days ago?
2
This all boils down to a point of fact, or facts. First and most important, was it a book or a gun? If it was a gun, case closed. Justified shooting.
If he did not have a gun, was he ordered to stay in his car, and did he disobey that order while holding something in his hand. Did he move quickly, or slowly and deliberately, keeping his hands visible? If he was ordered to stay in the car, but exited the car quickly with anything in his hand, there is mitigation for the shooting but not 100% clear justification.
If we can't get the facts straight, we'll never know whether it was justified, partially justified, the overreaction of a twitchy, nervous police officer, or an execution.
If he did not have a gun, was he ordered to stay in his car, and did he disobey that order while holding something in his hand. Did he move quickly, or slowly and deliberately, keeping his hands visible? If he was ordered to stay in the car, but exited the car quickly with anything in his hand, there is mitigation for the shooting but not 100% clear justification.
If we can't get the facts straight, we'll never know whether it was justified, partially justified, the overreaction of a twitchy, nervous police officer, or an execution.
13
Stevebee3 Upstate NY 3 hours ago
Doesn't matter if he was armed or not.
He was ordered NOT to exit the car.
Must an officer wait until he has 1/50th of a second to save his own life?
"Sir, do NOT exit the car" is a lawful and reasonable order.
===========================================
Stevebee3 - what leads you to believe the guy could hear that command while he was in his car. He was in his car at 4 o'clock in the afternoon at his apartment complex waiting for his son to arrive who was on a school bus. The cops weren't there for Scott yet they "discovered Scott in his car." I am in my car often on the phone or writing a note or sending a text in my own driveway. Do you mean to tell me that if I get out of my car I can be shot?
Doesn't matter if he was armed or not.
He was ordered NOT to exit the car.
Must an officer wait until he has 1/50th of a second to save his own life?
"Sir, do NOT exit the car" is a lawful and reasonable order.
===========================================
Stevebee3 - what leads you to believe the guy could hear that command while he was in his car. He was in his car at 4 o'clock in the afternoon at his apartment complex waiting for his son to arrive who was on a school bus. The cops weren't there for Scott yet they "discovered Scott in his car." I am in my car often on the phone or writing a note or sending a text in my own driveway. Do you mean to tell me that if I get out of my car I can be shot?
42
Unfortunately, I don't believe the officer in this case as he is already in violation of police policy. "It is the policy of CMPD that officers issued a BWC shall use it to record interactions that occur between officers and the public as described in this directive. B. Any violation of this directive is considered a violation of Rule of Conduct (ROC) #42 (Use of Body Worn Cameras) and will be investigated."
14
He was plain clothed officer, does not apply.
9
So how did this guy know this really was a police officer? Sounds like a great way to rob someone. (I.e. "Stop, ignore the mask over my head. I am an officer of the law!")
1
He was in plain clothes with a vest that read POLICE. So perhaps the rules do apply and he should have had his BWC on. You are confusing plain clothes with undercover police aren't you.
2
A black cop working under a black police chief kills an armed black man after several requests for him to drop his gun.
This doesn't seem to be a racial issue.
And they are called riots, not protests when police cars are burned and random civilian vehicles vandalized, contents from semis taken and burned on the highway, or rocks thrown onto freeway traffic from overpasses.
Where is the black leadership?
Al Sharpton must be on his way down there.
And even though "A riot is the language of the unheard" (MLK), there is a dire need for some new black leadership to emerge that isn't as ethically challenged as Hillary Clinton is with the truth.
No one seems to talk about how police are actually killing everybody.
This issue literally affects all of us.
This doesn't seem to be a racial issue.
And they are called riots, not protests when police cars are burned and random civilian vehicles vandalized, contents from semis taken and burned on the highway, or rocks thrown onto freeway traffic from overpasses.
Where is the black leadership?
Al Sharpton must be on his way down there.
And even though "A riot is the language of the unheard" (MLK), there is a dire need for some new black leadership to emerge that isn't as ethically challenged as Hillary Clinton is with the truth.
No one seems to talk about how police are actually killing everybody.
This issue literally affects all of us.
39
With the amount of guns on and off the market (and virtually every inner city shooting it out like the Wild West) are we really surprised by these lethal encounters between the police and citizens, especially those in higher crime areas of this country?
This narrative seems to have two real and/or perceived beliefs. Blacks don't trust the police and the police believe that blacks won't hesitate to shoot them in the face if give an opportunity.
If the cycle doesn't break, we can expect more and more of the same with plenty of blame to go around on both sides.
This narrative seems to have two real and/or perceived beliefs. Blacks don't trust the police and the police believe that blacks won't hesitate to shoot them in the face if give an opportunity.
If the cycle doesn't break, we can expect more and more of the same with plenty of blame to go around on both sides.
12
Where do we go from here? No matter which side of the argument you are on, it is obvious that there is a lack of evidence. What happened to body cams? There needs to be a system of communication between the cops and the public. Distrust and fear is dangerous for everyone. Why can we not legally require body cams? If the government is making big payouts when protests and riots ensue, surely they can afford to equip all the officers with cameras.
How can citizens effectively rally for this change? We have seen violent protests and non-violent protests and neither have worked.
How can citizens effectively rally for this change? We have seen violent protests and non-violent protests and neither have worked.
7
I have often said that EVERY gun in America must be REGISTERED on a national database, state LICENSED and FULLY INSURED FOR LIABILITY.
That includes guns used by law enforcement and every "retired" gun. A database like this would allow law enforcement officials and the public to immediately find out whose gun was used in a crime.
Of course, gun owners come out in droves to object and because they are so loud we tend to think there are a lot of them. A recent study tells us otherwise according to an article in yesterday's Guardian:
"Exclusive: New survey, part of most definitive portrait of gun ownership in decades, shows just 3% of American adults own half of guns in the US.
Americans own an estimated 265m guns, more than one gun for every American adult, according to the most definitive portrait of US gun ownership in two decades. But the new survey estimates that 133m of these guns are concentrated in the hands of just 3% of American adults – a group of super-owners who have amassed an average of 17 guns each.
While there are an estimated 55 million American gun owners, most own an average of just three firearms, and nearly half own just one or two, according to the survey results. Then there are America’s gun super-owners – an estimated 7.7 million Americans who own between eight and 140 guns.
Why are we letting a tiny minority of super gun owners dictate carnage in the streets of America?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/19/us-gun-ownership-survey
That includes guns used by law enforcement and every "retired" gun. A database like this would allow law enforcement officials and the public to immediately find out whose gun was used in a crime.
Of course, gun owners come out in droves to object and because they are so loud we tend to think there are a lot of them. A recent study tells us otherwise according to an article in yesterday's Guardian:
"Exclusive: New survey, part of most definitive portrait of gun ownership in decades, shows just 3% of American adults own half of guns in the US.
Americans own an estimated 265m guns, more than one gun for every American adult, according to the most definitive portrait of US gun ownership in two decades. But the new survey estimates that 133m of these guns are concentrated in the hands of just 3% of American adults – a group of super-owners who have amassed an average of 17 guns each.
While there are an estimated 55 million American gun owners, most own an average of just three firearms, and nearly half own just one or two, according to the survey results. Then there are America’s gun super-owners – an estimated 7.7 million Americans who own between eight and 140 guns.
Why are we letting a tiny minority of super gun owners dictate carnage in the streets of America?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/19/us-gun-ownership-survey
10
When has one of these super gun owners you referenced ever shot anyone?
1
The Guardian is a British paper. They have a gun control agenda and they don't understand our constitution.