The YPG in Syria is a branch of the PKK recognized as a terrorist organization by the US and other NATO allies. The PKK has recently carried out scores of terrorist attacks in Turkey including a car bombing in Ankara which killed nearly 50 people. The PKK/YPG follows a Marxist-Leninist ideology which forces the majority of Kurds who do not follow them to obey or face death or exile. The US direct arming of the PKK/YPG would be the equivalent of a Muslim ally of the US condemning Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan while arming Al-Qaeda in Yemen or the Maghreb. This may well happen if the US tries to play its old duplicitous games in the region which have so often and tragically backfired.
2
Too little to late. Obama is a disaster on foreign policy. The world is crying out for a leader.
This is not about arming the Syrian Kurds - because we have been arming the Syrian Kurds - at least since October 2015 when the Pentagon announced that we were providing "equipment packages and weapons to a select group of vetted leaders and their units so that over time they can make a concerted push into territory still controlled by ISIL" - and the Pentagon specifically mentioned that they supported the "counter- ISIL fighters in Kobane" . The counter-ISIL fighters in Kobane are the Syrian Kurds and Kobane is now part of their autonomous region. I am guessing this announcement has more to do with White House pushing back against Russia and Turkey than anything else. Before now, we armed the Kurds unofficially so as to not offend our Nato Ally Turkey (Erdogan has very strong and negative views of the Turkish Kurds). I can only wonder what will happen now that we seem unconcerned about Turkey's reaction.
2
Once, I had had the hope that there would be a way for everyone to at least try to get along. I applaud president Obama for trying to find a compromise in order to bring everyone to the table and talk and eventually be friends- after all, our best friends are sometimes people who used to be our worst enemies (see 13 colonies v England). I'm started to feel that the Turks, Kurds, Syrians, Iraqis, and even the Israelis (let's face it there is no way they are not involved in such a major issue so close to home even though there is a lack of reporting on their involvements if at all) just don't want peace. I feel like a culture among their leaders has occurred where they survive in their positions because of violence. Peace would make them obsolete. Perhaps it is time we made a concrete and wise decision who to back in the conflict. Otherwise we have to get involved directly like the Russians. The other alternative is we leave, let the Russians support Assad to victory, then mop up daesh (ISIS) and go home. I understand the presidents apprehension to stop playing the 'let's all be friends' game- I really do since it's what I wanted and still want- but it might be time to drop it and really consider winning the conflict with a concrete plan on who will take over what afterwards. Maybe a coalition government with equal seats for each group in an upper house and a lower house represented by population? I recall that working a couple hundred years ago.
1
The Kurds, the Turks, and the Middle East Quagmire.
Providing the Kurds even small weapons to fight, rout, and to put ISIS
on the run is ill-advised for the following reasons: (1) It will inflame Turkish fury against their traditional enemy, Syrian Kurds; (2) Strengthen the ties between Turkey and Russia even more so than now, (3) The U S will find itself in the awkward and unenviable situation of defending the Kurds against the Turks after ISIS is routed, (4) Would leave President Obama's successor in the White House mired in the Middle East quagmire even more deeply than now. Can you imagine Trump against Turkey, a member of the NATO?
Providing the Kurds even small weapons to fight, rout, and to put ISIS
on the run is ill-advised for the following reasons: (1) It will inflame Turkish fury against their traditional enemy, Syrian Kurds; (2) Strengthen the ties between Turkey and Russia even more so than now, (3) The U S will find itself in the awkward and unenviable situation of defending the Kurds against the Turks after ISIS is routed, (4) Would leave President Obama's successor in the White House mired in the Middle East quagmire even more deeply than now. Can you imagine Trump against Turkey, a member of the NATO?
1
I thought we already armed those rebelling in Syria, it was approved while Hillary was secretary of state. Didn't go well, as ISIS got those weapons.
Not likely to happen with the Kurds as they seem to be an oppressed group fight valiantly to keep their land and lives while under constant attack from neighboring Muslims. Really, I do not understand why so many seem to hate them, but the deserve some support.
We don't like to send soldiers, for an obvious reason. But these wars within Muslim countries cannot be fought with remote attacks from the UN or from drones. They must be fought on the ground. It is far too easy to hide behind children, something Hamas, Boko Haram, and Hezbollah do frequently. Then we have Russia killing UN workers trying to bring relief. I'm thinking that military minds from nations that have a military must meet with leaders and come up with a real game plan. Otherwise, my great-grandchildren will be reading the daily headlines I read today - constant death and human abuse. Please, someone help.
Not likely to happen with the Kurds as they seem to be an oppressed group fight valiantly to keep their land and lives while under constant attack from neighboring Muslims. Really, I do not understand why so many seem to hate them, but the deserve some support.
We don't like to send soldiers, for an obvious reason. But these wars within Muslim countries cannot be fought with remote attacks from the UN or from drones. They must be fought on the ground. It is far too easy to hide behind children, something Hamas, Boko Haram, and Hezbollah do frequently. Then we have Russia killing UN workers trying to bring relief. I'm thinking that military minds from nations that have a military must meet with leaders and come up with a real game plan. Otherwise, my great-grandchildren will be reading the daily headlines I read today - constant death and human abuse. Please, someone help.
Sounds like a great idea. What could go wrong?
So, let's arm another group that could potential turn against us after they take over? No, that's never happened before.......{sarcasm}.
1
I don't know about this. Seems like it always turns disastrous when the US arms one group against another.
The Obama administration is pathetic: still "considering" arming the Kurds, while Russia has long ago stepped in the conflict and tilted the balance of power towards Mr Assad, and while Turkey has played a very murky role enabling ISIS. The world cannot wait for being delivered from this impotent administration at the coming election, with HRC a much more serious player to try and put some order into this chaos.
1
How would USA would feel if Turkey armed Usame bin ladin? USA should stop supporting PKK terror
in their so-called fight agaisnt ISIS.
in their so-called fight agaisnt ISIS.
1
Why shouldn't we be arming our main allies in Syria when Turkey is aiding our main enemies?
This has not worked in the past. Giving them weapons in order to create peace is a VERY bad idea
1
Turkey is in Syria fighting against Kurdish US backed militia, but collaborating with Islamic State. There are numberless proof for it that Turkish troops and allied Syrian rebels (actually Islamic state fighters merged with Turkey military) have been fighting Kurdish-led forces following an Aug. 24 Turkish incursion into Syria. A senior U.S. military commander says the United States has made it clear to all of its partners fighting the Islamic State — including Turkey and the U.S.-backed Syrian Kurdish fighters — that they must keep their focus on IS and stop fighting each other but our administration do not understand this or do not want to understand and is blindly supporting Turkey against the Kurds and ignoring Turkish collaborating with Islamic State.
At the same time, USA government is supporting Kurds fighting against Islamic State, bat not they political ambition to create Kurdish State in North Iraq, part of Syria and Turkey where Kurds live.
Actually there is over 32 million Kurds in Iraq, Turkey, Syria and Iran, but merging them in one free Kurdish State is practically mission impossible because not a country where Kurds live are willing to cede they territory for forming Kurdish state.
The majority of Kurds live in Turkey and estimate is over 20 million or about 18% of population and Turkey is in permanent conflict with them. Kurds are living in all provinces of Turkey, but are primarily concentrated in the east and southeast of the Turkey
At the same time, USA government is supporting Kurds fighting against Islamic State, bat not they political ambition to create Kurdish State in North Iraq, part of Syria and Turkey where Kurds live.
Actually there is over 32 million Kurds in Iraq, Turkey, Syria and Iran, but merging them in one free Kurdish State is practically mission impossible because not a country where Kurds live are willing to cede they territory for forming Kurdish state.
The majority of Kurds live in Turkey and estimate is over 20 million or about 18% of population and Turkey is in permanent conflict with them. Kurds are living in all provinces of Turkey, but are primarily concentrated in the east and southeast of the Turkey
If the PYD/YPG has ties with the PKK, it indicates that it is connected with a foreign terrorist organization that we have designated, no matter if the PYD/YPG is a separate entity, or is located geographically in a separate area. So I cannot believe that Obama administration would consider arming any group which has ties with a recognized foreign terrorist organization.
1
If you want the truth copy and paste the following link into your web address bar.
The article is written by robert f kennedy jr. He has the inside track which us common people do not have
http://www.politico.eu/article/why-the-arabs-dont-want-us-in-syria-midea...
The article is written by robert f kennedy jr. He has the inside track which us common people do not have
http://www.politico.eu/article/why-the-arabs-dont-want-us-in-syria-midea...
1
The Kurds deserve our support. The Turks are going down the toilet with their Caliph Wannabee.
Kudos to Obama if he goes thru with this plan of enabling the Syrian Kurds to play a more viable role. This is no time for politics or even diplomacy; we're up against monstrous lunatics and need to play every hand.
Like, 6 years too late...
2
The Kurds are pretty much for warriors-for-hire. No wonder the countries they live in distrust them - and us.
4
We have a failing country due to people in decision-making positions who are terrified of reality. ALL politicians (not just Obama), and the "wannabes", are weak, naive, selfish, and incompetent puppets who have no idea of what to do, so do what their puppet-masters and "experts" tell them to do - they are NOT leaders, and leaders are what they are SUPPOSED to be. Academics and intellectuals have no life-experience (so no common sense - all their lives in classrooms, offices, and at "events" - Davos, TED talks, Jackson Hole, Aspen, etc.), haven't got the guts to do anything but talk (true of EVERYONE), are seriously THREATENED by people with diverse on-the-ground experience, and try to sound wise and relevant to justify being academics and intellectuals, so they can charge lecture and advisory fees, etc., under the guise of being "experts", and so on. They tell the world to "swim", and they have never been in the "water". Financial and business executives care for nothing nor no one except for making money. Economists are nothing more than apologists and fortune tellers. Generals in the military are nothing more than military POLITICIANS. And so it goes. We have a country filled with lazy cowards, and no leadership, and it will continue to get worse unless YOU, the public, get ACTIVELY involved with the governance of your country, quit being so self-absorbed, and make the personal "sacrifices" necessary to help change this joke we call "democracy".
3
The US should have listened to Saudi Arabia when they said invading Iraq would destabilize the entire Middle East.
4
The countries who engendered & sustained ISIS, namely Turkey and the Gulf Monarchies show little appetite for degrading the ISIS headchopping, religious barbarians.
The Kurds together with Assad's forces are the only ones actually fighting ISIS.
While the West and Gulf states armed 'moderate' rebels in Syria (most aren't moderate) and some arms have leaked to ISIS as have some of the fighters, US arms are still flooding the region replacing the old Soviet stuff most of them were using before.
I agree that the Kurds are the only people organised and motivated enough to fight IS, but arming them directly "the fig leaf would disappear" and I doubt the US and its allies are willing to confront Erdogan at this point in time when they are counting on him to stem the flow of refugees into Europe.
Turkey spent much of the 1980s exterminating Kurds with US military hardware. Turkish officials, from President Recep Tayyip Erdogan down, have emphasized that the Syrian Kurdish Democratic Union Party PYD is as much an enemy as the Islamic State and ought to be eradicated.
So if the US takes this step "to directly arm Syrian Kurdish fighters" it must also be willing to take a principled stand and embrace an independent Kurdistan and not play both sides for suckers, which further down the road will inevitably lead to further bloodshed and misery.
A much simpler & effective approach would be to stop arming anybody in that region, but the military-industrial complex is way too powerful.
The Kurds together with Assad's forces are the only ones actually fighting ISIS.
While the West and Gulf states armed 'moderate' rebels in Syria (most aren't moderate) and some arms have leaked to ISIS as have some of the fighters, US arms are still flooding the region replacing the old Soviet stuff most of them were using before.
I agree that the Kurds are the only people organised and motivated enough to fight IS, but arming them directly "the fig leaf would disappear" and I doubt the US and its allies are willing to confront Erdogan at this point in time when they are counting on him to stem the flow of refugees into Europe.
Turkey spent much of the 1980s exterminating Kurds with US military hardware. Turkish officials, from President Recep Tayyip Erdogan down, have emphasized that the Syrian Kurdish Democratic Union Party PYD is as much an enemy as the Islamic State and ought to be eradicated.
So if the US takes this step "to directly arm Syrian Kurdish fighters" it must also be willing to take a principled stand and embrace an independent Kurdistan and not play both sides for suckers, which further down the road will inevitably lead to further bloodshed and misery.
A much simpler & effective approach would be to stop arming anybody in that region, but the military-industrial complex is way too powerful.
2
Arming terrorist outfits always backfired- Kurd are double talkers they play every side try to get as much as they can- Turks have been our allies for over 50 years we must remember that
5
Yeah, let's arm the next generation of Mujahideen....it worked so well against the Russians in Afghanistan.
3
Here we go again!
2
The Kurds are our only true ally in the Middle East other than Israel. We should have been providing them with billions in armaments. This is too little too late. Anyone that thinks that Turkey or Saudi Arabia have our best interests at heart are sadly mistaken.
2
Be cautious about helping overwhelmingly Muslim populations. If they give thanks at all, it's often fleeting (e.g. Kuwait). And the response that was given by Somalia, the Balkans, Afghanistan, Libya, etc.... has made it clear that they might all just deserve each other after all.
1
The fallacy of US diplomacy is that we must choose sides. We must arm one group or another. We must back the potential winner.
Staying out of it is apparently not taught at Yale or Harvard schools of diplomacy or wherever most of the pin heads running foreign policy come from.
Staying out of it is apparently not taught at Yale or Harvard schools of diplomacy or wherever most of the pin heads running foreign policy come from.
3
And we will fight Daesh and Assad to the last drop of Kurdish blood, Then abandon them.
And those translators who worked for us in Iraq and Afghanistan and want to justly flee. Let them twist in the wind.
Pawns to be abandoned when our interest fades.
And those translators who worked for us in Iraq and Afghanistan and want to justly flee. Let them twist in the wind.
Pawns to be abandoned when our interest fades.
2
Dumping more arms into the region.
Great idea.
It has worked so well in the past.
How do we replace our entire cadre of foreign policy experts for some people with brains?
Great idea.
It has worked so well in the past.
How do we replace our entire cadre of foreign policy experts for some people with brains?
5
More important: Give the Kurds antiaircraft missiles (shoulder-held and lafette-(car-) mobile for protection against Turkish attacks. The Turkish invasions in Northern Syria and Iraq are a War Crime and only serve Turkish racist policies against their own Kurdish minority - with a side-effect of assisting ISIL (who have done a lot a business through Turkey - so where does Erdogan stand?)
The lead from behind policy in action, too little, too late, and subject to change at a moment's notice. Today we are also starting to hear Kerry call for a sort-of no fly zone. It was also nice to see Kerry's outrage at the UN over the use of chlorine gas against civilians - and his forgetting about the 'red line'. The policy of this Administration has been a series of half steps taken too late and driven by political calculations and over-caution, and it has left the people of Syria to die at the hands of a dictator and his allies: Hezbollah, Iran and Russia.
I have no inside knowledge but I wouldn't be surprised if the Kurds threatened to make up with the Syrian government and Obama is trying to give them just enough to keep them happy.
2
The sad saga of Syria would have ended a long time ago if, A- The West had not fallen into the trap of Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Israel intent on toppling President Assad, B- If America had not spent billions arming the so-called moderate opposition to oppose Assad, C- Once it was clear the monster that she had created, she had not continued to support those insane terrorists.
The situation is clear, should the West support a secular government that had coexisted with Muslims of various sects, as well as with Christians, Jews, Kurds and other ethnic groups, or with the terrorists who would kill anyone who opposes their extremist, fanatical Wahhabi, Salafi ideology.
Even at this late hour, President Obama can save the situation if she helps Russia, Iran, Kurds and the Syrian government to crush the 30,000 imported terrorists, and then allow the Syrians to decide their fate. This means arming the Kurds, withdrawing support for the terrorists, and telling Saudi Arabia, Israel and Turkey that the United States will no longer tolerate their anti-Syrian campaign.
The situation is clear, should the West support a secular government that had coexisted with Muslims of various sects, as well as with Christians, Jews, Kurds and other ethnic groups, or with the terrorists who would kill anyone who opposes their extremist, fanatical Wahhabi, Salafi ideology.
Even at this late hour, President Obama can save the situation if she helps Russia, Iran, Kurds and the Syrian government to crush the 30,000 imported terrorists, and then allow the Syrians to decide their fate. This means arming the Kurds, withdrawing support for the terrorists, and telling Saudi Arabia, Israel and Turkey that the United States will no longer tolerate their anti-Syrian campaign.
2
What a mess. But the most amazing thing of all, is that the great allies of the US, Turkey and S Arabia, they are really the ones who sponsor terror.. With friends like that.. This is starting to forming into the ideal ground for WWIII. And with Trump winning in November, because Clinton is unelectable, it might really come to that. Oh the genious of Henry Kissinger, the proudest child of Harvard!
2
Unfortunately, the USA is the orchestrator of many international conflicts including Syria causing milions of innocent people to leave their country, kill others, to be enemy to surrounding neighbours and even to lose their lives in order to provide Americans firms to make more money.
These actions are contradictory to the American's contribution to the civilisation of mankind.
Americans can keep their wealth only by peaceful means as well.
The sooner the USA withdraw from the middle east, the faster harmony and peace will prevail.
These actions are contradictory to the American's contribution to the civilisation of mankind.
Americans can keep their wealth only by peaceful means as well.
The sooner the USA withdraw from the middle east, the faster harmony and peace will prevail.
The Syrian Kurds are said to be the most seasoned fighters in the region and America's only reliable ally in driving ISIS out of Raqqa. It's going to be a very tough battle, as the city is seen as the "capital" of the Islamic State.
Assad has vowed to recapture every inch of Syria. Retaking Raqqa by the US-led coalition is like handing it back to him on a silver plate. The Americans have to consider what next, after retaking Raqqa. Is Assad going to regain control there, without having fought for it?
Assad has vowed to recapture every inch of Syria. Retaking Raqqa by the US-led coalition is like handing it back to him on a silver plate. The Americans have to consider what next, after retaking Raqqa. Is Assad going to regain control there, without having fought for it?
3
"Arming the Kurds" has become the inside the Beltway magical thinking answer to the Middle East. It isn't the first magical answer, nor the third.
The neocons and hawks always have a magical answer that six more months of one more magical idea will make everything go right. We've heard that constantly for 15 years about Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya and Syria. How has that ever turned out? Well, we didn't try this one other idea for more war?
The Kurds are small in numbers. They are divided among themselves. They have many leaders with many varied goals, many opposed to each other. They are in different countries, with different priorities. Their "army" is a defensive militia that cannot go out to conquer in the Arab world beyond Kurdish territory, and they don't want it to do so.
Assad in Syria made a deal with the Syrian Kurds to keep out al Qaeda and now ISIS from Kurdish lands, and they have. Our deal can't do any more than that in Syria. We are just arming the same people who already have that same deal with Assad.
The US Army and Marines with lots of air support from the Air Force and Navy could not do this in Iraq, after a long war trying, spending a trillion dollars and thousands of American lives. What they could not do, a few bands of Kurdish militia cannot do, with or without some American supplied weapons of mostly former Soviet origin.
The neocons are leading us into fantasy -- again. Don't go this time.
The neocons and hawks always have a magical answer that six more months of one more magical idea will make everything go right. We've heard that constantly for 15 years about Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya and Syria. How has that ever turned out? Well, we didn't try this one other idea for more war?
The Kurds are small in numbers. They are divided among themselves. They have many leaders with many varied goals, many opposed to each other. They are in different countries, with different priorities. Their "army" is a defensive militia that cannot go out to conquer in the Arab world beyond Kurdish territory, and they don't want it to do so.
Assad in Syria made a deal with the Syrian Kurds to keep out al Qaeda and now ISIS from Kurdish lands, and they have. Our deal can't do any more than that in Syria. We are just arming the same people who already have that same deal with Assad.
The US Army and Marines with lots of air support from the Air Force and Navy could not do this in Iraq, after a long war trying, spending a trillion dollars and thousands of American lives. What they could not do, a few bands of Kurdish militia cannot do, with or without some American supplied weapons of mostly former Soviet origin.
The neocons are leading us into fantasy -- again. Don't go this time.
3
If the Kurds are better at fighting ISIS, they should receive arms from the US.
But we need to go further, the Kurds need a separate country. In 1962, Syria removed the citizenship of many Kurds, so they could not get government ID's including passports or aid. They were trapped in the borders of Syria and had difficulty getting employment. In 2011, this order was revoked, but to prevent this travesty again, the Kurds should have their own homeland.
To accomplish this, Assad needs to be removed from power. Given his torture and murder of dissidents in violation of human rights, we should find it relatively easy to support a replacement that will be better for Syrians and the world.
But we need to go further, the Kurds need a separate country. In 1962, Syria removed the citizenship of many Kurds, so they could not get government ID's including passports or aid. They were trapped in the borders of Syria and had difficulty getting employment. In 2011, this order was revoked, but to prevent this travesty again, the Kurds should have their own homeland.
To accomplish this, Assad needs to be removed from power. Given his torture and murder of dissidents in violation of human rights, we should find it relatively easy to support a replacement that will be better for Syrians and the world.
3
Why don't' you offer part of the U.S. to Mexicans along the Mexican border since they are in large numbers and they have had historical presence in those areas. These types of irresponsible statements make the problems in the Middle East worst. Everyone should respect territorial integrity of other countries. The effort should be provide freedoms to all minorities as we do in the U.S.
1
Where is the guarantee that the arms supplied by US to the Kurds will not be used in their struggle for autonomy in Turkish, Iraqi and Iranian areas of so-called Kurdistan? Have not the US policy makers learnt a lesson from their inadvertent creation of ISIS while arming the Syrian rebels against Assad? The creation of Al Qaida and Talibans in Afghanistan/Pakistan was also a fallout of US policy of encouraging Islamic Jihad against Soviet occupation. This move of arming Kurds may also lead to creation of similar monsters.
The naive policy makers in US never seem to bother about the lessons from the past.
The naive policy makers in US never seem to bother about the lessons from the past.
4
It is a no-brainer. Back the winner and the Kurds have been the winners. Keep American troops out, let the Kurds run wild, and let Turkey and the Russians react.
1
My understanding that America and her allies have the most powerful military forces in the world. How is it that they cannot quickly annihilate ISIS ?
First of all, #ISIS is a proxy of Turkey, at a remove an indirect proxy of the United States. Turkey is the last in a long line of US 'puppets' that pull their own strings.
Turkey entering Syria last month was surrender of #ISIS. If the group could defend itself it would but it can't and didn't. When #ISIS abandoned Manbij the militant defenses across northern Syria collapsed which is why Turkey incurred. #ISIS was defeated by the Kurds in 2015 in Kobane, they sacrificed their best fighters, they never made up their manpower losses.
Believe it or not the Kurds already have MANPADs and ATGMs. They have demonstrated them, the Turks know they have them. The Kurds don't want a war with Turkey there is no reason for one, at the same time is impossible for the Turks to win. That conclusion should be obvious to anyone after a moment's consideration.
Another thing to keep in mind is Turkey is bankrupt; it cannot afford a big war. It spends billions of borrowed dollars and euros on lifestyle & fuel imports: the outcome is depreciating currency and ballooning debts it cannot hope to pay. The fuel and economic discomfort is the reason for the country's meddling in Syria -- and Iraq -- in the first place.
Turkey entering Syria last month was surrender of #ISIS. If the group could defend itself it would but it can't and didn't. When #ISIS abandoned Manbij the militant defenses across northern Syria collapsed which is why Turkey incurred. #ISIS was defeated by the Kurds in 2015 in Kobane, they sacrificed their best fighters, they never made up their manpower losses.
Believe it or not the Kurds already have MANPADs and ATGMs. They have demonstrated them, the Turks know they have them. The Kurds don't want a war with Turkey there is no reason for one, at the same time is impossible for the Turks to win. That conclusion should be obvious to anyone after a moment's consideration.
Another thing to keep in mind is Turkey is bankrupt; it cannot afford a big war. It spends billions of borrowed dollars and euros on lifestyle & fuel imports: the outcome is depreciating currency and ballooning debts it cannot hope to pay. The fuel and economic discomfort is the reason for the country's meddling in Syria -- and Iraq -- in the first place.
There are simply not a huge number of ISIS fighters. If the Sunni population did not want them they could not continue. The reality is that the Sunni population is more or less content with the ISIS leadership as are the Saudis. The penal code of the two regimes is identical. It is not the West's job to decide how these people lead their lives. On the other hand allowing all the discontents to migrate to Germany just allows these theocrats to maintain power since the opposition leaves. There is nothing I would like better as an ISIS leader than to get rid of the young men who do not want to participate in the program by sending them to Sweden and Germany.
1
Of course he is because this strategy has worked so well in the past. And let's npt forget how well our policy is currently working to stablize what 25 years ago was an unstable Middle/Near East never mind Afghanistan.
1
It seems to me that this is a never ending conflict. Turkey, Russia, Iran, USA involved. Why not just leave and get out permanently. If the USA were removed from the equation things might just get better! It seems as if all the US does is make things worse. As an example if we had never gone into Iraq none of this would even be happening. No Issis. No 500,000 dead in Syria, no 1,500,000 refugees to Europe. When will we get a clue?
2
This is such a tepid support that the Kurds should refuse. USA and Obama administration is being held hostage by Erdogan.
1
Why doesn't the U.S. arm our special forces in Syria with surface to air hand held missiles to bring down the Syrian helicopters that are bombing the civilian population with barrel bombs and chlorine ordnance? The Russians would be given advanced warning.
Biden was right a decade ago. Split the region into three and give the Kurds all the support they need for independence. If that means heavy weaponry so be it. The Turks will never be a reliable ally, never.
2
Arm the Syrian Kurds. ISIS is the enemy that must be vanquished and I learned, you have to make friends so they don't become your enemies.
Erdogan is unpopular in Turkey having been nearly deposed by the military there and especially after his big national purge. Erdogan is on the way out but the Turkish population will always be our friends.
At this point, Erdogan is buddying up to Putin and Russia, so hey, nothing to lose, right?
Arm the Syrian Kurds, and make them our friends too.
Erdogan is unpopular in Turkey having been nearly deposed by the military there and especially after his big national purge. Erdogan is on the way out but the Turkish population will always be our friends.
At this point, Erdogan is buddying up to Putin and Russia, so hey, nothing to lose, right?
Arm the Syrian Kurds, and make them our friends too.
2
Small arms and ammunition? The U.S. should provide them with tanks and anti-aircraft missiles. The Kurds have proven themselves to be America's only real ally in Syria. They are highly trained and known to be outstanding soldiers. I understand the need to consider the U.S. relationship with Turkey, but Turkey is highly complicit in the Syrian conflict. The vast majority of foreign fighters entered Syria from Turkey. When ISIS attacked Syria and Iraq, they did so by amassing troops in Turkey. Turkey is an ally in name, not in spirit.
3
If they arm the Syrian Kurds, and they have been very reticent to do so with the Iraqi Kurds, it will begin a slippery slope which, in my opinion can only end in a battle for the formation of a Kurdistan, for better or worse. They would make the same age-long claim to the territory they have historically and in modern times, occupied "the land of Karda"; shadowing the earlier Jewish claims for Palestine in the formation of Israel. I think the political appetite across the spectrum for this is nil, and not just Americans.
1
It's about time! The Kurds have the right to have our help to protect them from the duplicitous behavior of Erdogan who represents an atavistic to rid the Kurds from the area, just as his Ottoman predecessors did with the Armenians in the 1920's. This is ethnic cleansing, pure and simple.
The secular Kurds have proved their fealty to us in being our "troops on the ground," not only with their bravery, but with the stability of their management and democratic development in the cities and areas that have come under their domain. The establishment of a peaceful nation of Kurdistan where they could safely live. The Obama Administration should wait no longer in affording these great people all the protection possible to safeguard them from the threats coming from ISIS and the maniac Turkish dictator Erdogan determined to slaughter them.
The secular Kurds have proved their fealty to us in being our "troops on the ground," not only with their bravery, but with the stability of their management and democratic development in the cities and areas that have come under their domain. The establishment of a peaceful nation of Kurdistan where they could safely live. The Obama Administration should wait no longer in affording these great people all the protection possible to safeguard them from the threats coming from ISIS and the maniac Turkish dictator Erdogan determined to slaughter them.
1
Secular Kurds? I can be wrong but there are and far between seculars in that part of the world.
The US cannot easily support the establishment of a Kurdish state. The Kurds are divided between the PKK and the Peshmerga and they do not get along. Also, Turkey and Iran would do everything in their power to sabatoge this project. The de facto Kurdish state is landlocked and can easily be barricaded.
1
Kurdish is an Indo-European language (as are Persian and Hindi) unlike Turkish or Arabic.
In 2016, most Kurds are Sunni. Many Iranian Kurds are Shiite. (Some Kurds are Nestorian or other Christians, and others are atheists).
Assad's clan are Assyrian Alawites who broke from Shia a thousand years ago.
The Turkish speaking Sunnis of Western and Eastern Anatolia, and the Arab speaking Sunnis of Mesopotamia and the Levant are all, relatively speaking, parvenues. The true homeland of the Anatolian Turks is Turkistan not Anatolia. The true homeland of all Arab speakers who think of themselves as 'Arabic' or 'Arabs', is the Arabian Peninsula.
The civilisations of the Near East predate the invasions of the Arab and Turkish hordes by many millennia. The Western European values that took hold in the USA, that we think of as fundamentally democratic, are primarily the fruit of the seafaring tribes whom we conveniently call the 'Greeks'. (Plus the influence of pre-Islamic Anatolia, Mesopotamia, the Levant, Egypt, Persia and India.)
Of course, we all came out of Africa, and before that we were just another species of forest ape that gradually moved out onto the savannahs.
But for the core of the last ten thousand years of democratic, western values, we must look to the Indo-Europeans, their languages and cultures for our heritage.
In 2016, most Kurds are Sunni. Many Iranian Kurds are Shiite. (Some Kurds are Nestorian or other Christians, and others are atheists).
Assad's clan are Assyrian Alawites who broke from Shia a thousand years ago.
The Turkish speaking Sunnis of Western and Eastern Anatolia, and the Arab speaking Sunnis of Mesopotamia and the Levant are all, relatively speaking, parvenues. The true homeland of the Anatolian Turks is Turkistan not Anatolia. The true homeland of all Arab speakers who think of themselves as 'Arabic' or 'Arabs', is the Arabian Peninsula.
The civilisations of the Near East predate the invasions of the Arab and Turkish hordes by many millennia. The Western European values that took hold in the USA, that we think of as fundamentally democratic, are primarily the fruit of the seafaring tribes whom we conveniently call the 'Greeks'. (Plus the influence of pre-Islamic Anatolia, Mesopotamia, the Levant, Egypt, Persia and India.)
Of course, we all came out of Africa, and before that we were just another species of forest ape that gradually moved out onto the savannahs.
But for the core of the last ten thousand years of democratic, western values, we must look to the Indo-Europeans, their languages and cultures for our heritage.
4
The Arabic speaking people of the Levant and Mesopotamia are descendants of ancient Arameans and Babylonians. At the time of the Arab conquest, there was no where near enough Arabs to replace the indigenous populations of Syria and Iraq. In fact, it wasn't until two hundred years after the Arab conquest that Syria became majority Muslim.
I notice that you call the Arabs and Turks "hordes". This is typical Western orientalist thinking. No none calls the Europeans who invaded the Americas and supplanted their populations, "hordes".
I notice that you call the Arabs and Turks "hordes". This is typical Western orientalist thinking. No none calls the Europeans who invaded the Americas and supplanted their populations, "hordes".
4
Using the same logic, all European invaders of the Americas should go back to Europe: Ask Native Americans about what happened on these lands...
2
I am sick of the stupid military entanglements our government causes. Endless war will bring US endless retaliation, terrorism, scorn, debt. After 25 years of war, what have we achieved?
4
At least three tyrannical dictators removed from power. But if we'd stuck with Iraq instead of pulling up stakes in 2011 when it was stable, we would have accomplished a great deal more.
the way which Obama tried to evade a direct military intervention in Syria is his best legacy I believe. what would have become of Syria if he intervened directly and removed Assad from presidency? another civil war but with more USA causalities and death toll. Syria is doomed to disagreement and war...
1
It is amazing how the world's only superpower, the US, and the largest economy, EU, are hold hostage by a third world despot. And that despot isn't even backed by Russia or China. In fact, both Russia and China have problem with him due to his support of separatism in Russia and China.
Turkey has been an untrustworthy NATO ally. It attacked Greek Cyprus which is a member of NATO. It pick fights with Israel which regardless of what you think, is still America's ally. It supports ISIS which is counter to US and EU's goal of replacing Assad with "moderate rebels". And it holds Europe hostage by playing with the refugee/migrants crisis. It also doesn't help it is lobbying against the recognition of the Armenian Genocide.
It is clear the only way to defeat ISIS along term in the region is to have strong Kurdistan, strong Assad and strong Shia Iraq. It won't root out ISIS from the world but at least in Kurdistan, Syria and Iraq, ISIS won't be able to establish a foothold due to the strong secular/Shia governments. Essentially we will be restoring the region to before Saddam fell, Assad weaken and Turkey turn Islamist.
Turkey has been an untrustworthy NATO ally. It attacked Greek Cyprus which is a member of NATO. It pick fights with Israel which regardless of what you think, is still America's ally. It supports ISIS which is counter to US and EU's goal of replacing Assad with "moderate rebels". And it holds Europe hostage by playing with the refugee/migrants crisis. It also doesn't help it is lobbying against the recognition of the Armenian Genocide.
It is clear the only way to defeat ISIS along term in the region is to have strong Kurdistan, strong Assad and strong Shia Iraq. It won't root out ISIS from the world but at least in Kurdistan, Syria and Iraq, ISIS won't be able to establish a foothold due to the strong secular/Shia governments. Essentially we will be restoring the region to before Saddam fell, Assad weaken and Turkey turn Islamist.
2
You cannot defeat ISIS unless Sunni grievances are addressed. Maliki headed a Shia government that Oppressed Sunnis. This lead to the growth of Isis.
2
Kurdistan is a myth. it never existed and never will. creating a Kurdistan is not as easy as creating Israel. This may end up becoming a ww3. Does anyone have an appetite for that?
5
the Turks are no great ally of the US in this case. First of all, for years they turned a blind eye to their Northern border as Isis had there way. I think Turks do not mind ISIS as long as they are killing Kurds. Remember, Isis and Turks all both Sunni. Turkey has over
half a million troops and can crush ISIS if they wanted. The Kurds scare the Turks more than ISIS.
I say yes, arm the Kurds, (Turks may threaten to remove our bases there which would be bad) but Obama is gone in months and the new president, will have to deal with it.
half a million troops and can crush ISIS if they wanted. The Kurds scare the Turks more than ISIS.
I say yes, arm the Kurds, (Turks may threaten to remove our bases there which would be bad) but Obama is gone in months and the new president, will have to deal with it.
2
'The agreement can be salvaged if all sides unite, for now, around a simple and undeniably important goal: Stop the killing. It may be more likely than it sounds.' Jimmy Carter in NYT Oped.
How many foreign and regional 'players' want/wish the 'bloodshed' to stop in Syria. Only 'children of the lesser God', Syrians want peace!!!
How many foreign and regional 'players' want/wish the 'bloodshed' to stop in Syria. Only 'children of the lesser God', Syrians want peace!!!
2
We should have been arming the Kurds from the get-go. They're the ones that ISIS fears the most. Also, they are a real democracy. Plus, they're brave, cool, appealing and treat women as equals.
5
Of all the Sunni Muslims the Kurds have proven to be the most trustworthy and peaceful when interacting with Christians. Unlike our ally Turkey, the Kurds never have a policy of genocide against Christians.
After the Siege of Jerusalem in 1187, the most famous Kurds of all, Saladin, allow native Christians and Jews to stay in the now Muslim city. European Christians were to pay a ransom to leave the city with safe passage of them and their belongings to Acre to board ships bound for Europe.
Later in 1192 after the Third Crusade failed to recapture Jerusalem, Richard the Lionheart signed the Treaty of Ramla with Saladin. The treaty opened Jerusalem to European Christian pilgrims.
After the Siege of Jerusalem in 1187, the most famous Kurds of all, Saladin, allow native Christians and Jews to stay in the now Muslim city. European Christians were to pay a ransom to leave the city with safe passage of them and their belongings to Acre to board ships bound for Europe.
Later in 1192 after the Third Crusade failed to recapture Jerusalem, Richard the Lionheart signed the Treaty of Ramla with Saladin. The treaty opened Jerusalem to European Christian pilgrims.
3
Give the Kurds as much arms as they want! Let them carve out a new homeland for themselves in the ruins of Syria. If Turkey doesn't like that, then too bad, they deserve it for their support for ISIS.
3
CORRECTION to Thought for the day: If we don't want other nations looking the other way with regard to our terrorists, we should NOT start arming their terrorists.
2
Thought for the day: If we don't want other nations looking the other way with regard to our terrorists, we should start arming their terrorists.
1
Siding with the Kurds against Turkey, Iraq, and Iran is fools gold.
4
Mr. Erdogan is no ally of the United States. If only the recent coup had succeeded. Arm the Kurds!! They have proved to be a dependable partner of the West in the past, although treated very poorly.
5
Obama arming the Kurds would be a complete change of course. Obama has been trying to disarm the combatants so that there will be less resistance to the socialist democratic unity government he has been trying to build in Syria (the one not headed by Assad). Arming the Kurds would be a more Ronald Reagan 'Peace Thru Strength' approach. If he did this Syria would likely end up with a more totalitarian government build on a negotiated agreement between the parties, certainly not a democracy.
Helping a handful of already divided Kurds and alienate Turkey, Syria, Iran, and Russia ... very unwise move.
More division, more instability, more blowback, more anti-Americanism. Have we learnt nothing from dividing India, Middle East, Sudan .... This can be only a brainchild of the Military Industrial Complex that wants to arm both sides and laugh all the way to the Bank.
While we divide the globe with TTIP/TTP, China unites Africa, Asia, Europe into one with New Silk Road / OBOR. To unifier will go the spoils.
More division, more instability, more blowback, more anti-Americanism. Have we learnt nothing from dividing India, Middle East, Sudan .... This can be only a brainchild of the Military Industrial Complex that wants to arm both sides and laugh all the way to the Bank.
While we divide the globe with TTIP/TTP, China unites Africa, Asia, Europe into one with New Silk Road / OBOR. To unifier will go the spoils.
6
Assad/Putin/Rouhani have done horrendous atrocities against Syrian folks and they would continue this genocide/mayhem in Syria due to US 'frigid' foreign policy. US has neither the 'muscle' nor the 'moral'/'ethical' stance to combat this cold blooded murder of humanity. US looks for its 'geostrategic' interest of 'greater Kurdistan'/Balkanization of 'middle east' on ethnic/sectarian basis. And Israel would be another winner, though in the short run, in this endless game of death and destruction.
Despicable and erratic behavior by all major 'players'. It would haunt them big time; nature keeps its balance!!!
Despicable and erratic behavior by all major 'players'. It would haunt them big time; nature keeps its balance!!!
1
Turkish determination and resolve must be read better than what this news item implies. The fact that some in the Obama administration consider PYD/YPG terrorists as allies is a grave insult to 80 million Turks and NATO ally Turkey, who have been fighting terror by PKK, the mentor of PYD/YPG, for 30 years at a cost of 40+ thousand lives, mostly civilian non-combatants. Can the US really do such a terrible deed to a close NATO ally?
6
It doesn't take much to get on the bad side of Turkish President Recep Erdogan, and considering that the U.S. is already there, arming the Syrian Kurds wouldn't be too much of a big step.
Of course a move like this has its consequences. Turkey still holds the cards when it comes to allowing use of its land and airspace, which as a member-state of NATO, it is wont to do -- but Mr. Erdogan could change all of that in an instant, if he saw fit.
And then there's the fact that any further involvement in Syria would ultimately involve Russia, which is still an operating force in the region by way of its association with Bashar al-Assad.
Nevertheless, seeing how Mr. Erdogan has the habit of burning his political candles at both ends, the U.S. would be very wise to carefully contemplate everything that comes out of his mouth before making any moves.
Of course a move like this has its consequences. Turkey still holds the cards when it comes to allowing use of its land and airspace, which as a member-state of NATO, it is wont to do -- but Mr. Erdogan could change all of that in an instant, if he saw fit.
And then there's the fact that any further involvement in Syria would ultimately involve Russia, which is still an operating force in the region by way of its association with Bashar al-Assad.
Nevertheless, seeing how Mr. Erdogan has the habit of burning his political candles at both ends, the U.S. would be very wise to carefully contemplate everything that comes out of his mouth before making any moves.
4
I have no idea people like you reducing this issue matter between Erdogan and the rest. I am a secular Turk lived in the USA all my life and I am Totally outraged by this administrations irresponsible behavior in that region.
1
@TT
You need to open your lens a bit wider. This has nothing to do with "reducing this issue matter", or making it a personal situation between Mr. Erdogan and the rest.
Of course, being Turkish you might choose to see it that way.
I am merely stating facts.
Can't argue with that.
You need to open your lens a bit wider. This has nothing to do with "reducing this issue matter", or making it a personal situation between Mr. Erdogan and the rest.
Of course, being Turkish you might choose to see it that way.
I am merely stating facts.
Can't argue with that.
1
The German SPIEGEL is just reporting that Russia is sending its one and only aircraft carrier to the Syrian coast.
Not a good sign.
Not a good sign.
The safe zone, 100km by 50km along the Turkish border, rebuilt for Syrian refugees is a cheaper solution that billions of dollars spent on arms for PYD/YPG (Kurdish) terrorist groups and more humane. It is also fair, simple, and doable. Washington DC should stop following the mad suggestions by think-tankers and start listening to voice of reason…
4
Finally. It's time to support the good guys. Make it happen Obama.
4
• What some in the Pentagon and the State Department may see as "crowded battle space" is what Turkey sees as the best hope for peace after it is cleared of its ISIS and Kurdish invaders and terrorists, and turned into a "safe zone" of 100x50 km2 , for millions of Syrian refugees. The security of Turkey and Europe depends on the success of "Euphrates Shield." Free Syrian Army, with the help of Turkish forces, freed the Turkmen villages from Kurdish and Jihadist invaders and terrorists. When the PYD/YPG terrorists advanced to the east of Euphrates, despite numerous warnings by Turkey, and stayed there despite American warnings, the PYD/YPG terrorists left Turkey no other way but to remove them by force. If a safe zone along the Turkey-Syria border is to be established for millions of Syrian refugees, ISIS, PYD, and YPG terrorists have to go. The threat to Turkey posed by PYD/YPG is serious and it might even expand all along the 981 km of Turkey-Syria border. The US should never continue with ill-informed and ill-advised plans to arm terrorists, Kurdish or not.
3
Turkish determination and resolve must be read better than what this news item implies. The fact that some in the Obama administration consider PYD/YPG terrorists as allies is a grave insult to 80 million Turks and NATO ally Turkey, who have been fighting terror by PKK, the mentor of PYD/YPG, for 30 years at a cost of 40+ thousand lives, mostly civilian non-combatants. Can the US really do such a terrible deed to a close NATO ally?
1
Turkey and the US are not close nor allies. Turkey should have been kicked out of NATO when it invaded Cyprus. The only reason Turkey are still in NATO and have special relationship with EU aid because Germany needs cheap labor.
3
@Historian
No. Germany needs Turkey to keep hold of all those refugees trying to flee to Germany and the rest of Europe, as part of the EU bargain.
It already has enough "cheap labor".
No. Germany needs Turkey to keep hold of all those refugees trying to flee to Germany and the rest of Europe, as part of the EU bargain.
It already has enough "cheap labor".
2
Seems, the administration learned nothing from the Syrian fiasco: there are no 'good' rebels and 'bad' rebels, with 'so-so' rebels in-between.
Similarly, there are no 'good' Kurds and 'bad' Kurds; there are only Kurds.
The US should just pack up and leave the Middle East - leave it to the locals to sort out their own problems.
Similarly, there are no 'good' Kurds and 'bad' Kurds; there are only Kurds.
The US should just pack up and leave the Middle East - leave it to the locals to sort out their own problems.
2
I think the Syrian Kurds could be important assets for helping the U.S crack down on ISIS. Turkey may get mad but they should put their feelings for Syria aside to try to stop the terroristic group that has killed many people. ISIS is a group that needs to be stopped as soon as possible.
2
That is a ridiculous plan probably hatched by some Washington think-tankers and mindlessly followed through by some U.S. policy-makers who believe supporting terrorists of one kind (PKK-Kurdish) to fight another (ISIS) is a smart policy, but is it? Don't we ever learn from our mistakes? Taliban in Afghanistan in 1980s? Daesh (ISIS) in Iraq in 1990s? What these think-tankers (lazy academics, if you ask me) fail to see is that such ill-informed, clandestine designs do not look as attractive or doable in the field as they might in the air-conditioned conference rooms of Washington DC. Remember the "experts on Iraq" who were convinced that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and that the U.S. had to step in militarily? After 13 years of mayhem, 1+ trillion dollars spent, 4,000 GIs and more than a million Muslims killed, where do we stand in Iraq today? More mayhem and misery… Food for thought.
3
First of all, Syria is a very complicated situation, so any opinion I have might be wrong. With that said:
I think if we are going to have a stable Iraq/ Syria, we need a strong Kurdish region. They are one of the only groups in the region that is organized, united, and not genocidal maniacs. I think Turkey will have to live with that.
If arming the Kurds makes it harder for the Turks to kill them off once the battle against ISIS is won, I'm OK with that too. Personally, I feel for the Kurds, and think they deserve their own state. I know there might be geopolitical and realpolitik obstacles to this, so maybe it's not wise. But in my heart, I feel more for the Kurds than Turkey.
If the United States wanted to make a bold international move, it would recognize the Kurdish State and immediately sign a military alliance that pledged us to protect them from foreign aggression (including from our own NATO ally Turkey). But at the same time, we would tell the Kurds, Turkey is a NATO ally, so if you attack them, then we attack you as well.
But then, that would also make us the "world policeman" in another conflict, and there would be a risk that we would have to involve ourselves in another war if both sides can't figure out how to be adults, so maybe I'm wrong... sometimes, the world offers no easy answers.
I think if we are going to have a stable Iraq/ Syria, we need a strong Kurdish region. They are one of the only groups in the region that is organized, united, and not genocidal maniacs. I think Turkey will have to live with that.
If arming the Kurds makes it harder for the Turks to kill them off once the battle against ISIS is won, I'm OK with that too. Personally, I feel for the Kurds, and think they deserve their own state. I know there might be geopolitical and realpolitik obstacles to this, so maybe it's not wise. But in my heart, I feel more for the Kurds than Turkey.
If the United States wanted to make a bold international move, it would recognize the Kurdish State and immediately sign a military alliance that pledged us to protect them from foreign aggression (including from our own NATO ally Turkey). But at the same time, we would tell the Kurds, Turkey is a NATO ally, so if you attack them, then we attack you as well.
But then, that would also make us the "world policeman" in another conflict, and there would be a risk that we would have to involve ourselves in another war if both sides can't figure out how to be adults, so maybe I'm wrong... sometimes, the world offers no easy answers.
1
If you are in love with the Syrian Kurds ,Why do you not accept a miilion refugees Kurds in Turkey to the USA . If the USA were true friends of Kurds and civilised enough, they would do that.
It is only Tuıkey accepting the greatest number of refugees in human history,
So try to be just.
It is only Tuıkey accepting the greatest number of refugees in human history,
So try to be just.
Singling out for US support the PYD/YPG Kurdish terrorists in Syria, in spite of the ongoing and costly 30-year-war against their mentor PKK in neighboring Turkey, was a colossal mistake by the US. The devastation of that mistake is unfolding as you read these lines. Allies do not do to allies what the U.S. did to Turkey.
2
Your arguments might be more viable if they had more than just one side to them.
1
Finally! Now, let's establish no- fly zones.
2
"It calls for providing the Syrian Kurds with small arms and ammunition, and some other supplies, for specific missions, but no heavy weapons such as antitank or antiaircraft weapons."
Looks like 'heavy weapons' are reserved for ISIS/Al Nusra or other Jihadists..
Looks like 'heavy weapons' are reserved for ISIS/Al Nusra or other Jihadists..
3
Since the 35 million stateless Sunni Muslim Kurds have been oppressed pawns of Sunni Muslim Turks, Sunni Muslim Arabs and Shia Muslim Persians why not let Judeo-Christian America do the same thing again to them for the umpteenth time?
For all of their effective loyalty to America the Kurds have reaped nothing but ethnic sectarian socioeconomic political educational persistent grief and woe. Other than sacrificing Kurdish blood and treasure for America what can the Obama Administration credibly and meaningfully offer the Kurds in exchange? An independent Kurdish majority nation state of Kurdistan?
Saladin was a Sunni Muslim Kurd. The Kurds believe in faith, war, commerce, education and honor.
For all of their effective loyalty to America the Kurds have reaped nothing but ethnic sectarian socioeconomic political educational persistent grief and woe. Other than sacrificing Kurdish blood and treasure for America what can the Obama Administration credibly and meaningfully offer the Kurds in exchange? An independent Kurdish majority nation state of Kurdistan?
Saladin was a Sunni Muslim Kurd. The Kurds believe in faith, war, commerce, education and honor.
5
@mamba
I agree with what you're saying about establishing an independent Kurdish nation -- but how can the U.S /Obama administration "offer" them that logistically???
I agree with what you're saying about establishing an independent Kurdish nation -- but how can the U.S /Obama administration "offer" them that logistically???
1
Black mamba, Spot on! Thank you for posting the above as I typed and tossed out the several rambling attempts of which even the closest I had come to expressing my own admiration and respect & best regards towards the Kurds and opinion of their current oppressors and historical antagonists without allowing the threads pro-Erdogan fan club cheerleading squad propaganda get under my skin and my comment would have been offensive to more than just the 87% of Turks who anti-USA/West in the latest "post-Purge" poll in Herr Erdogan's New Ottoman Empire. 82% say that they celebrate[d] 9-11. Your short, concise, interesting answered with the class and eloquence that I sadly admit is lost to me when I'm this motivated.lol. Thanks again and best regards to you.
People suggesting removing a portion of Turkey and putting it in a greater Kurdistan are not being realistic. Turkey will never allow that, nor is it clear under international law that they can be forced to relinquish their territory. (Recall the U.S. fought a bitter war to prevent separation of the state.) It seems reasonable to allow small arms to be supplied to the Kurds, but as part of the deal, extensive efforts to defuse the Kurdish/Turkish tensions should be initiated by the U.S. Turkey is part of NATO, and they have played an important part of the alliance, at some risk to their own interests. This needs to be respected.
1
The Kurds deserve a nation state of their own that must in its beginning be protected by force of arms and later by the rule of law. The latter will be the difficult part of it given the tribal and clan nature of this ethnic group. The fact that woman are treated as equals on the battlefield and compassion is shown for the suffering of the Yazdi is most encouraging in that part of the World. May they all be as noble as Saladin , the conqueror of Jerusalem. They have been waiting almost one hundred years since the division of their Lands in WWI for a country called Home.
4
The likelihood of an outcome that peace will return, and tyranny would be destroyed in Syria if we arm Syrian Kurds seems pretty close to zero. Any arm we supply - sooner rather than later - gets into the hands of some very bad people, and they do some very bad things. ISIS is unspeakably horrendous, an armed ISIS is only worse so.
Kalidan
Kalidan
It is apparent that covert deliveries of small arms and ammunition to various warring groups in this area, done by shoving pallets full of weapons out of an airplane at night, and hoping for the best, are unlikely to accomplish anything good in this area!
What is needed most is a stable government, not more weapons. Also the military tactics of pushing ISIS out of one area only to have them disperse, regroup and rearm in another nearby area does not work.
What is needed most is a stable government, not more weapons. Also the military tactics of pushing ISIS out of one area only to have them disperse, regroup and rearm in another nearby area does not work.
1
Finally! The Kurds are the people willing to fight for themselves from day one. At this point in time I feel they deserve the respect and support from this country more so than any people in that region.
6
The US strategic interest in this conflict is clear- they would like to carve out a Kurdish state from northern Iraq, northern Syria and south-eastern Turkey. There is the romantic idea of Kurds not having their own country and being a reliable ally, deserving of one. Ok, so that is the plan. It was also why US was supportive of the coup attempt in Turkey in july- which failed; it was not a coincidence that the soldiers attempting the coup were positioned in the NATO base and then, when they saw the failure, asked for defecting to the USA. One thing that has not been calculated throughout all this debate is the fact that the population of Turkey is close to 80 million. US arming Syrian Kurds is a disaster waiting to happen, where the current Kurdish conflict within Turkish borders is bound to significantly escalate. You know what that means? How many refugees were there in the Syrian conflict? A country of 11 million? And how the EU and USA treat them? Turks know that they are stuck in this unfortunate geography and they have no-where else to go. What do you think they will do? And will Putin sit still watching? No. It will be beginning of a major instability and a third world war. US should stop meddling with Syria. Just a month ago they were joined with Turkey, fighting against ISIS in northern Syria. Now, when the Turkish army is close to the Kurdish fighters - both these forces are fighting against ISIS, by the way- they want to arm the Kurds in Syria. Disaster..
4
elizabeth;
Excellent analysis elizabeth, There are voices of reason in US but the popular narrative is to create a greater Kurdistan. US supported Contras against Sandinista in Nicaragua, aided right wing militias against FARC guerrillas in Colombia, had problems with Cuba, El salvador, Haiti, Panama, and list goes on and on. Vietnam, Korea, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Egypt, Mali, Syria and Palestine-Israel conflict are examples of endless US/'west' mis-adventures. Now greater Kurdistan...when US folks will tell their leaders that they are fed up with this war/conflict obsessed behavior. Let's live in peace. And Putin is a ruthless democratically elected despot who loves killing civilians from Chechnya to Syria, Ukraine to Georgia!!!
Excellent analysis elizabeth, There are voices of reason in US but the popular narrative is to create a greater Kurdistan. US supported Contras against Sandinista in Nicaragua, aided right wing militias against FARC guerrillas in Colombia, had problems with Cuba, El salvador, Haiti, Panama, and list goes on and on. Vietnam, Korea, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Egypt, Mali, Syria and Palestine-Israel conflict are examples of endless US/'west' mis-adventures. Now greater Kurdistan...when US folks will tell their leaders that they are fed up with this war/conflict obsessed behavior. Let's live in peace. And Putin is a ruthless democratically elected despot who loves killing civilians from Chechnya to Syria, Ukraine to Georgia!!!
2
Exactly! I completely agree! It is high time US stops messing up so many countries and lets the world be in peace!
This sounds like one of Obama's more intelligent Ideas. As whole his view of the Middle East is way out in Left field. He has failed to grasp a single practical solution to the problem.
He lacks the courage to stop sending arms to Israel. He listen to Haider Abadi too much. He ignores what Erdogan is doing in Turkey as he wants to use the Incirlik air base. In short Obama has never had a middle East solution.
He lets the war monger Ash Carter run too much of his policy in that area.
I am glad he is arming the Kurds but what will happen when they come into conflict with Erdogan's soldiers? Will he have the courage to suspend Turkey from Nato like he should? I doubt it. We will just have 4 months more of this liberal to put up with
He lacks the courage to stop sending arms to Israel. He listen to Haider Abadi too much. He ignores what Erdogan is doing in Turkey as he wants to use the Incirlik air base. In short Obama has never had a middle East solution.
He lets the war monger Ash Carter run too much of his policy in that area.
I am glad he is arming the Kurds but what will happen when they come into conflict with Erdogan's soldiers? Will he have the courage to suspend Turkey from Nato like he should? I doubt it. We will just have 4 months more of this liberal to put up with
2
"Just 4 months more of this liberal", you say...and then what Trump???
Have you any idea what that would mean?
Not good.
Have you any idea what that would mean?
Not good.
3
Dealing with blackmail is always complicated, which is exactly what our and Europe's relationship with the current Turkish government is: arm the Kurds, criticize our domestic crackdown and we will loose the refugees into Europe and maybe even again provide sanctuary to ISIS fighters, maybe even more tangible aid.
Does one negotiate with blackmailers? If one predicates negotiation on a belief that those you are negotiating with in fact have the limited objectives they claim, then you can weigh the alternatives within a negotiating framework. However if, as seems likely in dealing with Erdogan, "payments" will just encourage more demands for further "payments", then you adopt the policy you think best and throw the ball back into their court and be prepared to deal with the consequences. Sometimes there just is no nice solution.
Does one negotiate with blackmailers? If one predicates negotiation on a belief that those you are negotiating with in fact have the limited objectives they claim, then you can weigh the alternatives within a negotiating framework. However if, as seems likely in dealing with Erdogan, "payments" will just encourage more demands for further "payments", then you adopt the policy you think best and throw the ball back into their court and be prepared to deal with the consequences. Sometimes there just is no nice solution.
2
Are you kiddin´?!
What are you actually talking about?
Who is black,ailing in that whole mess around Turkish borders.
Turkey is feeding and hosting over 3 million refugees from different arab, kurdish and other origin, withour any real financial support from the UN.
Turkey has not the duty to do so.
What do you mean by "Erdoan´s soldiers" and allow to ask you what currently your problem with him or the Government in Ankara could be?
There is war and chaos all around the Republic of Turkey and even within turkey there is a a lot of kurds who are close to terrorists.
What do you think how life can be in such a nation?
Ain´t easy, isn´t it.
Turkish people wants to live in peace and work for some property - that´s all. Turkish Army didn´t start no action in syria for no reason.
What are you actually talking about?
Who is black,ailing in that whole mess around Turkish borders.
Turkey is feeding and hosting over 3 million refugees from different arab, kurdish and other origin, withour any real financial support from the UN.
Turkey has not the duty to do so.
What do you mean by "Erdoan´s soldiers" and allow to ask you what currently your problem with him or the Government in Ankara could be?
There is war and chaos all around the Republic of Turkey and even within turkey there is a a lot of kurds who are close to terrorists.
What do you think how life can be in such a nation?
Ain´t easy, isn´t it.
Turkish people wants to live in peace and work for some property - that´s all. Turkish Army didn´t start no action in syria for no reason.
1
@aslan
Even if Turkey receives relatively little funding from the UN, it is feeding and hosting all those refugees as part of an agreement with the EU -- and is being paid to do so.
And that is one of the reasons why Chancellor Merkel has been on tiptoes around Erdogan after he went ballistic after the German Bundestag voted to acknowledge the Armenian massacre.
Even if Turkey receives relatively little funding from the UN, it is feeding and hosting all those refugees as part of an agreement with the EU -- and is being paid to do so.
And that is one of the reasons why Chancellor Merkel has been on tiptoes around Erdogan after he went ballistic after the German Bundestag voted to acknowledge the Armenian massacre.
2
And there will be background checks for all of this with little to no risk that any of these weapons will come back to be used against us by domestic or international terror groups? See, this is another stupid Democrat/liberal administration stunt. Let's give gun owners, patriots, conservatives, Republicans, NRA members, anyone who supports the flag, the country, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, or God forbid anyone who's Christian - let's bend them over a barrel and criticize and attack them, deprive them of their rights and freedoms whenever they feel the urge. But...some group of unverified and background-checked foreigners, in a foreign country no less...let's give them a bunch of arms and ammunition and tell them to go at it. Does anyone else see the typical liberal ignorance and hypocrisy in this? And yes I say liberal/Democrat because of who's in the White House, and because this isn't the first time this administration or Democrats in general have ignorantly backed things like this. Any Republican who backs something like this deserves equal criticism, I must say. But to go after law-abiding American citizens the way the Obama administration has with gun owners, and then give the farm away to foreigners in foreign lands like they have - that's a big, unacceptable problem!
2
So what countries got involved in our civil war? Um, none, as far as I know.
1
We did have help in our revolutionary war, however. Good thing, too.
1
We can't have it both ways. Either we admit horrible foreign policy decisions, which neither George W. Bush or President Obama will admit, looking to what a good foreign policy decision especially prevention is in the first place, like the first Gulf War, and then the prevention of the aftermath of Iraq which wasn't done, or the west is saddled with tens of millions of refugees from across the middle east, Africa, and parts of Asia. Foreign policy really is,"speak softly and carry a big stick," which neither of our previous elected Presidents carried out. You cannot prevent, destroy, or maintain relative livable peace without troops on the ground. Not enough troops right away in Afghanistan led to still being there. Most of the countries in Africa are unable just with our money to deal with Boko Haram, Al Shabaab, etc. with their military forces. At this point, it has been so messed up, that it is doubtful that you can put it back together again. Memories of resentment and revenge will be the future in those parts of the world.
1
Bottom line here...
1-Although ISIS has killed a few Americans and is universally agreed upon by the world as being the devil incarnate they do not pose an immediate threat to America (ie invasion, planned attacks etc).
2-Having said that, with the exception of advisors do not send any more Americans over there to die for something the people of the middle east and
Europe should be dying for.
3-Also despite not getting involved with American grounds troops (unless something drastically changes) support with arms and air strikes any group that also wants to destroy ISIS or at least don't bother with them as with Assad or Putin.
4-Put a price tag on the senior leaders of ISIS and offer millions to anybody will brings them to justice in an intl. war crimes tribunal.
1-Although ISIS has killed a few Americans and is universally agreed upon by the world as being the devil incarnate they do not pose an immediate threat to America (ie invasion, planned attacks etc).
2-Having said that, with the exception of advisors do not send any more Americans over there to die for something the people of the middle east and
Europe should be dying for.
3-Also despite not getting involved with American grounds troops (unless something drastically changes) support with arms and air strikes any group that also wants to destroy ISIS or at least don't bother with them as with Assad or Putin.
4-Put a price tag on the senior leaders of ISIS and offer millions to anybody will brings them to justice in an intl. war crimes tribunal.
1
Two options to consider:
Arming the Kurds, ensures that they have a chance of survival and will be able to fight ISIS more effectively. Also, if every player in the Middle East is armed, the circular firing squad will eventually nudge the Middle Eastern countries towards a tipping point where they are finally tired of all the killing and sit down with each other and negotiate peace. The U.S. cannot impose peace on these countries, but we can make sure that a tipping point is reached so that the countries in the Middle East actually work for peace and realize that they are responsible for obtaining it.
The other option is to pull out from the Middle East totally and stop using our blood and treasure to fight the battles of corrupt regimes. And stop doing business with regimes whose human rights records are making us all complicit in their denial of human rights, their religious fanaticism, and the murder and maiming of westerners in our own country, in Europe, and throughout the world.
The world refused "play Sun City," and divested in South Africa over Apartheid. We can refuse to "play in the Middle East" or any country that treats women and girls as less than 3/5 of a human. We can refuse to do business with countries that are blatantly exporting a form of religious government world wide, that is totally an anathema to our values.
Arming the Kurds, ensures that they have a chance of survival and will be able to fight ISIS more effectively. Also, if every player in the Middle East is armed, the circular firing squad will eventually nudge the Middle Eastern countries towards a tipping point where they are finally tired of all the killing and sit down with each other and negotiate peace. The U.S. cannot impose peace on these countries, but we can make sure that a tipping point is reached so that the countries in the Middle East actually work for peace and realize that they are responsible for obtaining it.
The other option is to pull out from the Middle East totally and stop using our blood and treasure to fight the battles of corrupt regimes. And stop doing business with regimes whose human rights records are making us all complicit in their denial of human rights, their religious fanaticism, and the murder and maiming of westerners in our own country, in Europe, and throughout the world.
The world refused "play Sun City," and divested in South Africa over Apartheid. We can refuse to "play in the Middle East" or any country that treats women and girls as less than 3/5 of a human. We can refuse to do business with countries that are blatantly exporting a form of religious government world wide, that is totally an anathema to our values.
1
Syrian Kurds YPG or whatever else you want to called them are terrorists. I doubt it but if they ever get their autonomy in the Northern Syria ; they will turn their attention to Turkey for more land grab. So what happened to international cooperation against terrorism in the world. Is that true only if the terrorist threaten USA but not if they threaten countries like Turkey ?. If USA goes ahead with this outrageous plan to arm terrorists ; I would not be surprised if the Turks consider that a hostile act and close down the base in Turkey.
3
T.T;
Truthful and spot on. However; truth is a bitter pill to swallow!!!
Truthful and spot on. However; truth is a bitter pill to swallow!!!
1
The Kurds are the only reliable power in the region. We should support the creation of an independent Kurdish State. It is long overdue and will, in the long run, increase the stability of the region. Turkey and the Arab states have proven too unreliable for too long. Creating a long overdue independent Kurdish State is logical and would be in the interest of the other ethnic groups as well, if only they would look outside the box. Erdogan's fantasy of recreating the old Ottoman entity is just a fantasy and will keep Turkey destabilized.
23
I agree...sort of like Israel in 1948...oops, give me a minute to find a better example...
1
Why is this not obvious to everyone? Your view is absolutely correct, and it's about time the US ceased to support Islamist Turkey, which is being dragged back by the maniacal Erdogan to the religious fanaticism of the Ottomans, to the dismay of all who followed Atatürk's wish that they adopt the example of Western democracies. The time has come to back the Kurds and find another air base to fly from.
2
If we armed the Kurt's they would surely go after the Turks, their long-time nemesis and NATO member, as well as ISIS. This is a can or worms.
That said, is there any good reason why the Kurds, an definable Nation of people, should not have their own state?
That said, is there any good reason why the Kurds, an definable Nation of people, should not have their own state?
4
The Kurds deserve a country of their own.
The only problem is that Turkey is much stronger and will not allow this to happen, therefore best to keep out.
The only problem is that Turkey is much stronger and will not allow this to happen, therefore best to keep out.
6
It was one thing when the US armed the Iraqi Kurds. They're a semi-autonomous region with a functioning governing body. The Syrian Kurds don't really have that, and the United States' track record of giving weapons to non-state actors in Western Asia gives me pause here. Ideally, the Kurds in Iraq and Syria wold form Kurdistan proper. That would alleviate much of this problem, but I doubt you could get it through the UN given the current geopolitical state of the region.
12
I'm confused. Didn't Comrade Obama get the Nobel Peace Prize for bringing peace and harmony to the world? Didn't he run on a platform of love and tolerance and apology? Why are there more conflicts than ever?
5
Because our "values" are threatened, not our bodies. We must fight for peace; fight to eradicate opponents to democracy, freedom, and human rights (LGBT included) from history; they are sooooo evil. That's why there are so many wars going on.
@yaba
"Why are there more conflicts than ever?"
Have you actually tried looking at the actors on the world stage???
If you had, you would surely know that the answer doesn't solely lie at the U.S.'s doorstep.
Another thing.
It's President Obama -- you must have gotten your countries mixed up.
"Why are there more conflicts than ever?"
Have you actually tried looking at the actors on the world stage???
If you had, you would surely know that the answer doesn't solely lie at the U.S.'s doorstep.
Another thing.
It's President Obama -- you must have gotten your countries mixed up.
That's not to exonerate "their" values. I think "they" are more adamant about defending their "values" than even we are. That's the problem. both sides say (W)e (A)re (Right).
Carving a slice of power out for the Kurds (let alone a country) will not be easy, and stability takes decades to achieve. If we follow history, we know what happens to rebel groups when an imperialistic country like the US hires them: the war is lost, rebels are weeded out by genocide, people are displaced and refugees increase greatly, and the US plays the "good guy" by granting a safe haven. This is coming from a child of Hmong refugees who fought in the CIA's secret war.
20
The U.S. has been greatly strengthened by Hmong and Vietnamese refugees. We should have taken more.
1
We keep playing into the hands of ISIS and other radical Islamist. That's exactly what they want, and they know it is what the US is mostly likely going to do. It feeds their ideology and aids in their recruitment of young disenfranchised Muslims worldwide. Psychologically speaking, they are playing us like a banjo. The sole reason they are willing to kill other Muslims is to keep the misery level up, pulling on our heartstrings, thus drawing us even deeper into the abyss.
The only thing that will eventually end the carnage is to withdraw totally, leaving not one soldier or adviser. The mayhem that will ensue will be hard to recon, but it will end. If we keep responding in predictable ways, nothing will change except the eventual total dead. In the end, the sooner we and everyone else leaves the sooner the horror will end. Until we do, there'll be two new jihadist for every one killed.
The only thing that will eventually end the carnage is to withdraw totally, leaving not one soldier or adviser. The mayhem that will ensue will be hard to recon, but it will end. If we keep responding in predictable ways, nothing will change except the eventual total dead. In the end, the sooner we and everyone else leaves the sooner the horror will end. Until we do, there'll be two new jihadist for every one killed.
The world needs a Kurdistan, which the Western powers that carved up the middle east neglected to do. Turkey will have to get used to a peaceful Kurdish state on its border.
5
“There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.” - GW Bush
Arm the Kurds. Abandon them. Arm terrorist groups. Support them.
Anything goes when it comes to regime change in Syria, or Libya, or Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Honduras, or Haiti…you name the failed state that we helped topple.
But make sure that you fool the American people the most.
Arm the Kurds. Abandon them. Arm terrorist groups. Support them.
Anything goes when it comes to regime change in Syria, or Libya, or Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Honduras, or Haiti…you name the failed state that we helped topple.
But make sure that you fool the American people the most.
5
Nothing like starting a war as you exit the white house.
2
Kurds deserve to have their own country on their lands they have been living at since the beginning of human civilization.
Letting/helping them to establish their democratic and secular countries is going to be an anchor or peace and will catapulte the Middle East to a new area. Their commitment and love for secular democracy will be a force that would encourage their neighbors to get rid of its brutal dictators and maniacs like Erdogan, Khamenei, Assad, ... it will bring a new era to he Middle East.
America has the means and leverage to make this happen but needs courage and leadership instead of following and pleasin Erdogan, Russia, Iran, ...
Letting/helping them to establish their democratic and secular countries is going to be an anchor or peace and will catapulte the Middle East to a new area. Their commitment and love for secular democracy will be a force that would encourage their neighbors to get rid of its brutal dictators and maniacs like Erdogan, Khamenei, Assad, ... it will bring a new era to he Middle East.
America has the means and leverage to make this happen but needs courage and leadership instead of following and pleasin Erdogan, Russia, Iran, ...
5
Since Turkey is on the long fall of the democracy bandwagon, I see absolutely no reason not to arm the Kurd's. As a matter of fact, Turkey is looking more and more like a states sponsor of terrorism everyday. Oh who am I kidding, they achieved that decades ago.
5
The Nobel Committee, who awarded President Obama its coveted Peace Prize in 2009, needs to award him another, since the first one "didn't take." Immunizations sometimes work this way.
5
This will do nothing to solve any present situation but on the contrary it will escalade tensions between Turkey and USA. It is difficult to understand Obama's motives in this case.
2
Ya think? Barry is the master of head scratching wonders...I mean blunders.
@solot
It's probably easy to say something like that when you have no ideas on how to solve the problem yourself.
It's probably easy to say something like that when you have no ideas on how to solve the problem yourself.
Why again is Syria in our national interest? Where is the concern for humanitarian principles where both (all) sides use civilians as pawns? Give the Kurds weapons, they will use them however they choose. The EU chose to accept unlimited numbers of refugees, at a cost. Syrian immigrants, many of them Christians as well as Muslim, have come to the US and have added to our culture. But we have no treaty interest, no historical interest, in Syria. Lincoln was asked why he chose Grant with all of his flaws, and Lincoln said, "because he fights." That was then. This is now.
2
Little more at stake - at least for us northerners - when President Lincoln spoke those words.
Yep. Jesus Lincoln is getting ready to do something dumb. Won't be the first time; or the last.
I don't agree with the Obama Administration considering this strategy. It has failed repeatedly in the past, and will only result in ISIS getting their hands on new weapons and equipment. Unless we put boots on the ground we will not make headway against ISIS.
4
Getting their hands on new weapons if they can defeat the Kurds, so far they have been the only ones on the ground pushing back DAESH.
2
Agree- Fish or cut bait
It's very disheartening that the people who are supposedly smart fail to learn. What is the definition of insanity?......
2
The Kurds are probably the most (if not the only) reasonable people in the entire Middle East. Support for them against practically everyone else is long overdue.
11
The Kurds are hated by Turkey mainly because they are not of the muslim faith, they are Christians, on the whole. They are and have been fighting for decades just to stay alive while the muslims that surround them have annihilated and murdered them for being alive.
Free nations should have been fighting for them and their right to exist all along.
It makes me proud of Mr. Obama to finally recognize these people and to reach out to help them to finally succeed in their endeavors.
Free nations should have been fighting for them and their right to exist all along.
It makes me proud of Mr. Obama to finally recognize these people and to reach out to help them to finally succeed in their endeavors.
Kurds are 99 percent Muslim. The majority of the public is very tribal and religious. Arranged marriages and blood feuds are common. Please, read a little...
2
Obama continues to supplying the world with more bombs, guns and other weapons. He's been, with the support of former Sec. of State Clinton, expanding the military presence of the U.S. for 8 years....and it's been a colossal failure, We've created a pile of rubble in the Middle East where tens of millions of people have fled their homes. Now he wants to continue arming Kurds to cause more bloodshed and killing. He plays political games with real lives with his 'battle cry' of 'eliminating ISIS. He needs to move to his big mansion in Northwest DC now, and not wait until Jan. 1st.
Read President Carter's article yesterday Mr. Obama, and see what you should be doing in Syria. You need someone twice your age who's been out of office for 40 years to educate you on how to manage foreign affairs. You've been a complete foreign policy failure.
Read President Carter's article yesterday Mr. Obama, and see what you should be doing in Syria. You need someone twice your age who's been out of office for 40 years to educate you on how to manage foreign affairs. You've been a complete foreign policy failure.
3
Yes. Please send in the Varsity Team
The JayVee team is running circles around the US and pulling other countries into the fight, fulfilling ISIL's wishes. "Leading from behind" - what a joke ! Now our proverbial butts are hanging in the wind fully exposed and vulnerable.
No more pink lines in the sand, please !!!!
The JayVee team is running circles around the US and pulling other countries into the fight, fulfilling ISIL's wishes. "Leading from behind" - what a joke ! Now our proverbial butts are hanging in the wind fully exposed and vulnerable.
No more pink lines in the sand, please !!!!
It is high time that we arm the Kurds. It is passed time the U.S. and the world acknowledges that the Kurds deserve their own country. Turkey has become little more than a semi-religious dictatorship that has killed the Kurdish people for hundreds of years just like they mass murdered the Armenians under the Ottoman Empire. This needs to stop. Turkey needs to be called out. It's ironic that, after four years of bloodshed in Syria, Turkey suddenly becomes interested in stopping ISIS--the group the Kurds have been fighting and dying to protect themselves from. And we're still "considering?" More like dithering.
2
I see this only adding to the maelstrom in Syria and elsewhere. What are we doing?????
1
Yes, lets increase our risk of starting WWIII with Russia, who is Syria's ally. They have permission to be in Syria, the US does not. In fact it is the illegal war mongering by the US that started this whole mess in the first place, including the refugee crisis.
ISIS is not the main terrorist problem in the Middle East. That distinction belongs to the US Government.
ISIS is not the main terrorist problem in the Middle East. That distinction belongs to the US Government.
3
We expect a lot from Kurds and want to use them.What is the reward for them? They want a country Kurdistan to be recognized and carved out of Turkey,Iraq Iran and Syria. It will be a great balancing force of civility in the middle east. We should support this gesture.
3
Turkey did exactly what it wanted to do and it severely limited the ability to stop ISIS early. It's time for the US to do what it wants and the hell with Turkey. Arm these guys, a bunch of Barretts would be nice, and let these guys start damaging Assad's troops along with ISIS.
2
It appears that Obama is starting to understand that ISIS is not the junior varsity as he foolishly declared. Too bad that he abandoned the burgeoning democracy of Iraq to ISIS, and then allowed them to wreak the havoc they have across the Middle East, Europe and here in the U.S.
2
Obama is a lame duck president, assuming no coup or putsch, and now proposes to start a new war in his waning days
I guess he likes to keep his name in the news, Trump-envy I expect
Supporting Kurdistan is probably a good idea; but the other countries nearby have issues and need to be involved
The Turks in particular, who have hosted many of the millions of Syrian displacees, without much public complaint, see Kurdish nationalism and separatism as an assault on their national sovereignty, properly so, they would be losing territory, and would oppose
=
SO since at least ONE thing works, Syrian refugees finding refuge in Turkey, Obama is bound to destroy that also, Turkish accommodation of Syrian chaos and spillover
so Obama means to expand his legacy, global chaos, as a gift to President Trump
Apres moi le deluge
entre nous le delusion
be afraid be very afraid, during the interregnum
I guess he likes to keep his name in the news, Trump-envy I expect
Supporting Kurdistan is probably a good idea; but the other countries nearby have issues and need to be involved
The Turks in particular, who have hosted many of the millions of Syrian displacees, without much public complaint, see Kurdish nationalism and separatism as an assault on their national sovereignty, properly so, they would be losing territory, and would oppose
=
SO since at least ONE thing works, Syrian refugees finding refuge in Turkey, Obama is bound to destroy that also, Turkish accommodation of Syrian chaos and spillover
so Obama means to expand his legacy, global chaos, as a gift to President Trump
Apres moi le deluge
entre nous le delusion
be afraid be very afraid, during the interregnum
1
Why do we need to get involved in every fight in the world? Arm the Kurd, make Turkey more of an enemy, arm the "rebels" in Syria, make Syria, Iran, Russia, China, and most of the world except the "west" our enemies. What is the threat to America, other than a little tick in street crime bombings, murders, torched stores (eg Charlotte). Is war so appealing? Or is it just "jobs"?
2
More guns for somebody is always the Pentagon's option. I don't think anyone at "the administration's highest levels" will pass out from shock when this plan gets presented.
1
I only wonder if the U.S. continues to support the "ally" and NATO partner Turkey - to actually fight AGAINST the Syrian Kurds. What an absurd war scenario. Left hand hits, right hand pets.
The foundation for a never-ending war. What is actually the best for Turkey and the U.S. Sad but true.
The foundation for a never-ending war. What is actually the best for Turkey and the U.S. Sad but true.
2
Has everyone's cheese slipped off the cracker? Turkey is not a true ally and we know this. Turkey is not a true ally and they know this. However, due to geographical and historical happenstance, Turkey is strategically important on all sides of this conflict. Everyone knows this. Unfortunately, the Kurds are caught somewhere in the middle. They can only gain at another country's expense. Turkey has made very clear that country will not be Turkey. That's why any move counter to Turkey's agenda is risky. You might expedite a tactical victory but end up with a strategic defeat.
14
If there is one expensive lesson the US should have learned after decades of wreaking havoc in the Middle East, it must be this: "DO NOT ARM REBELS!" There is not a single instance in which this has worked as a policy, in the short term or the long term. The only viable solution to the current mess is to hold our nose and support Assad, instead of insisting so vehemently on his removal because we fear losing favor with Saudi Arabia. Yes, he is a reprehensible dictator, but as we have seen time and again, toppling him is only going to result in the emergence of multiple reprehensible militants (all armed with US weaponry), killing each other indiscriminately.
39
The thing is, we have been arming the Syrian Kurds and giving them military advice - it has just been in a round about way. For example, we do not arm the Iraqi Kurds directly - but we do send arms to Bagdad and tell them to give them to the Kurds.
1
Assad's actions are beyond the pale. If we do not support those fighting him, the only other acceptable policy would be complete disengagement. I am not advocating for disengagement; I am only stating that Assad is too reprehensible to be supported, even with the nose-holding caveat.
1
What do you mean it doesn't work? It works perfectly to keep the industrial military complex rolling along. ;) We are arming our next conflict well ahead of time so that we can continue to be at war.
I love America, but the American government is a war monger.
I love America, but the American government is a war monger.
1
The Kurds they talk about have displaced and killed many Arabs and Turkomans there. Just because they also fight against ISIS, doesn't make them less of a terrorist.
8
It is true the Kurds have been killing a lot of Arab and Turk ISIS fighters. Don't know where you stand but I am fine with killing ISIS. Why are there Turks in ISIS controlled Syria and Iraq anyway?
4
@ AmateurHistorian who asks "Why are there Turks in ISIS controlled Syria and Iraq anyway?".
Answer: Because Turks have lived in those regions since the 11th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Turkmen
As regards the claim "Kurds have been killing a lot of Arab and Turk ISIS fighters"; while that is true since ISIS includes terrorists of many nationalities, most Syrian Arabs and Turcomans living in the region despise of the fundamentalist ISIS jihadists who occupy their villages in the areas under their control and force civilians to submit to their dictates under threat of death.
On the other hand, our so-called allies the Syrian Kurds have likewise been committing war crimes against those same Syrian Arabs and Turks as part of their ethnic cleansing in hopes of establishing a "Greater Kurdistan": https://www.amnesty.org/en/press-releases/2015/10/syria-us-allys-razing-...
There are no saints in Syria.
Answer: Because Turks have lived in those regions since the 11th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Turkmen
As regards the claim "Kurds have been killing a lot of Arab and Turk ISIS fighters"; while that is true since ISIS includes terrorists of many nationalities, most Syrian Arabs and Turcomans living in the region despise of the fundamentalist ISIS jihadists who occupy their villages in the areas under their control and force civilians to submit to their dictates under threat of death.
On the other hand, our so-called allies the Syrian Kurds have likewise been committing war crimes against those same Syrian Arabs and Turks as part of their ethnic cleansing in hopes of establishing a "Greater Kurdistan": https://www.amnesty.org/en/press-releases/2015/10/syria-us-allys-razing-...
There are no saints in Syria.
3
There are Turkish people who have been living within Syria for centuries. Some of the these people have been murdered by Kurds. Some of these people have been killed by ISIS. The ones under ISIS occupied lands are the weakest who could not escape as refugees to Jordan or Syria.
1
Support for the Kurds is long overdue. Unlike Saudi Arabia and Turkey, they are prepared to fight the Islamic State, rather than focusing on the hapless Assad. And if any of the dispossessed peoples in the region deserve their own state it is the Kurds. As to further destabilizing the region, it's worth the risk and might even have the opposite effect. Do the right thing President Obama!
17
Are you aware that US and Turkey are carrying out joint operations against ISIS together in Northern Syria? Google Jarablus.
1
What joint operations? Like the ones where Turks threatened American special ops with beheading?
1
Want to solve this Obama/Hillary debacle with one stroke and have Russia and China onboard? Easy.
Create a Kurdistan out of northern Iraq, northeastern Syria and southeastern Turkey. Have the three governments agree to this by telling Baghdad we will not support the Shia leadership if they don't, telling Damascus we will let Assad keep power in the rest of Syria and tell Ankara the next coup will be real if they don't go along.
It is amazing how much leverage the US have with Iraq, Syria and Turkey yet we don't use it. As long as we keep Russia and China's interest in mind while settling issues it's usually not very hard.
Create a Kurdistan out of northern Iraq, northeastern Syria and southeastern Turkey. Have the three governments agree to this by telling Baghdad we will not support the Shia leadership if they don't, telling Damascus we will let Assad keep power in the rest of Syria and tell Ankara the next coup will be real if they don't go along.
It is amazing how much leverage the US have with Iraq, Syria and Turkey yet we don't use it. As long as we keep Russia and China's interest in mind while settling issues it's usually not very hard.
26
There are too many special interests in the Middle East. America should get out and let them duke it out - without OUR money and arms. That would put an end to it in a hurry because all they want is OUR money.
4
Only thing that will do is USA will find out how little leverage they have with Iraq, Syria and Turkey.
2
Why does Obama want war in the Middle East? Does he truly believe that arming one band of jihadists to fight another band of jihadists is going to make any band of jihadists like us? He's acting like the rich kid on the playground, trying to "buy" friends while all the other kids he hands out money to laugh at him.
Let's stop going abroad in search of monsters to destroy. Too bad the Community Activist In Chief isn't smart enough to understand that statement.
Let's stop going abroad in search of monsters to destroy. Too bad the Community Activist In Chief isn't smart enough to understand that statement.
9
The Kurds are not jihadists, try and keep up.
Kurds are not jihiadists and they are fighting for their survival on their own land against evil occupiers. They are secular and fully committed to human and women's rights. They embrace democracy. They are total opposite of jihadists.
It is not cool to call President Obama not smart. He and his team are very intelligent. We may disagree with some of their policies but that doesn't make them less smart.
It is not cool to call President Obama not smart. He and his team are very intelligent. We may disagree with some of their policies but that doesn't make them less smart.
6
OF course you are really smart....He inherited a war in the Middle East...Kurds are not jihadists....
The NYT ran an Op-Ed a few months back from a Kurdish military commander. He stated that the Kurds were committed to helping the West rout out ISIS.
But he also stated that the Kurds would not occupy Sunni lands. Why would they?
Their objective is carving out their own homeland, understandably.
Occupying Sunni territory would be counterproductive for the Kurds.
Unfortunately, the Turks fear that Kurdish land extends right into Turkey.
Is that a resolvable issue? It's hard to find information on that.
Erdogan's obsession with the Kurds leads one to suspect that Turkey doesn't want to see ISIS weakened, as they are a reliable ally against the Kurds.
Perhaps America does need to reconsider some of these NATO alliances.
I, for one, really hope that we don't sell out the Kurds, again.
But he also stated that the Kurds would not occupy Sunni lands. Why would they?
Their objective is carving out their own homeland, understandably.
Occupying Sunni territory would be counterproductive for the Kurds.
Unfortunately, the Turks fear that Kurdish land extends right into Turkey.
Is that a resolvable issue? It's hard to find information on that.
Erdogan's obsession with the Kurds leads one to suspect that Turkey doesn't want to see ISIS weakened, as they are a reliable ally against the Kurds.
Perhaps America does need to reconsider some of these NATO alliances.
I, for one, really hope that we don't sell out the Kurds, again.
85
Erdogan restarted his war on the Kurds after he nearly lost an election...The Kurds need their own country. They are the only allies of the US in the region
3
Memories of Kissinger's betrayal are probably still fresh in the Kurds' minds while most Americans probably don't realize the difference between a Kurd and a Sunni. The Kurds are unique in that most of them are committed to secularism, pluralism, and democracy, a rarity in this troubled, hyper-religious part of the world. We should do everything to help them out and start distancing ourselves from an increasingly mad, autocratic Erdogan.
2
The only reason we will not sell out the Kurds is so they can take Raqqa. That way the USA can divide Syria and build a pipleline. This suffering is all for oil and the pentagon and cia don't care about the suffering.
1
US seems determined to destabilize Turkey.
Life is good for us thousand miles away from the actual conflict, it is so easy and comfortable to let others fight our wars. Now, lets arm Kurds because we think they are good guys now and they are capable of fighting (until a few years ago, US State Department classified YPG as a terrorist organization -rightfully so, just google how many people died due to PKK/YPG attacks in Turkey). Then once the conflict ends, PKK/YGP can use those weapons for their regional ambitions (against Turkey, remaining of Syria, Iraq etc). Then again, we will have the next big Middle Eastern conflict to deal with, but of course, we can find a solution once that conflict starts.
US needs to wake up and stop pouring gasoline to the fire.
Life is good for us thousand miles away from the actual conflict, it is so easy and comfortable to let others fight our wars. Now, lets arm Kurds because we think they are good guys now and they are capable of fighting (until a few years ago, US State Department classified YPG as a terrorist organization -rightfully so, just google how many people died due to PKK/YPG attacks in Turkey). Then once the conflict ends, PKK/YGP can use those weapons for their regional ambitions (against Turkey, remaining of Syria, Iraq etc). Then again, we will have the next big Middle Eastern conflict to deal with, but of course, we can find a solution once that conflict starts.
US needs to wake up and stop pouring gasoline to the fire.
12
Certainly seems to me that we, as the USA, have not gotten any smarter about the politics and interactions of the people of both middle east and muslim lineage. "Arming" anyone in this region immediately means their enemies, who each group has, now needs to escalate their arms supply as well. The real answer is: let them sort this out themselves. Take ALL the arms away from them all.
3
It is truly disheartening to see how one sided some proposals from top US officials may be to stop the fire in the Middle East.
1. The political and military mess which have cost almost one million lives and 5 million refugees in the Middle East was mainly brought upon by the invasion of Iraq.
2. Fundamentalist Islam was nourished by US in Afghanistan to fight against the Soviets. Al- Quaida and many other groups were spin offs of those dirty forces, of course by generous financial support from the Saudis and Quatar.
3. Kurdish forces have been at war with Turkey for the past 40 years. Their main fraction, PKK, is registered as a terrorist organization by US and European Community.
4. PYD, the main Kurdish fraction in Iraq and the apparent ally of US is actually a branch of PKK.
5. Since June of this year PKK has organized attacks and bombing of cities killing hundreds of civilians and security officers within Turkey.
6. It is obvious that simple pouring of arms into an already volatile region will not help the peace process.
It seems a lasting peace and stability in the region will require:
1. An international determination to stop the killing and end support of arms and personnel.
2. Completely destroying of ISIS, the main threat in the region and perhaps the world.
3. Forcing Asad of Syria, a dangerous dictator and murderer to step down with democratic elections in a reasonable calendar.
4. Have insurgent groups to get together and accept political solutions.
1. The political and military mess which have cost almost one million lives and 5 million refugees in the Middle East was mainly brought upon by the invasion of Iraq.
2. Fundamentalist Islam was nourished by US in Afghanistan to fight against the Soviets. Al- Quaida and many other groups were spin offs of those dirty forces, of course by generous financial support from the Saudis and Quatar.
3. Kurdish forces have been at war with Turkey for the past 40 years. Their main fraction, PKK, is registered as a terrorist organization by US and European Community.
4. PYD, the main Kurdish fraction in Iraq and the apparent ally of US is actually a branch of PKK.
5. Since June of this year PKK has organized attacks and bombing of cities killing hundreds of civilians and security officers within Turkey.
6. It is obvious that simple pouring of arms into an already volatile region will not help the peace process.
It seems a lasting peace and stability in the region will require:
1. An international determination to stop the killing and end support of arms and personnel.
2. Completely destroying of ISIS, the main threat in the region and perhaps the world.
3. Forcing Asad of Syria, a dangerous dictator and murderer to step down with democratic elections in a reasonable calendar.
4. Have insurgent groups to get together and accept political solutions.
3
ALL BUSH'S FAULT
The carnage came from Obama's abdication. At the end of the BUSH years we had a form of quiescence, and shaky peace
Obama threw it away and IT IS ALL OBAMA'S FAULT
These deaths and displacements are on him and he is a war criminal
There fixed it for ya
Since there are no good guys there, our goal is divide and conquer, maximum green on green carnage
and why should we treat them better than they treat themselves
The carnage came from Obama's abdication. At the end of the BUSH years we had a form of quiescence, and shaky peace
Obama threw it away and IT IS ALL OBAMA'S FAULT
These deaths and displacements are on him and he is a war criminal
There fixed it for ya
Since there are no good guys there, our goal is divide and conquer, maximum green on green carnage
and why should we treat them better than they treat themselves
1
Barry's starting to go overboard in his quest to get Hillary elected. He's been unable to get a Supreme Court justice appointed, futile in reining in gun proliferation, and in cruise control with Syria. America First, Barry. Let's tackle the tangibles before delving into muck.
4
Eh, I believe these things are due to Congess, not Obama.
"Weighing", "under discussion" "small arms and ammunition", "the proposal has not yet been presented at the administration's highest levels for decision".
Too little; too late. And by the time anybody actually makes a decision and it is implemented, it will be irrelevant.
Too little; too late. And by the time anybody actually makes a decision and it is implemented, it will be irrelevant.
4
It's so disconcerting. I don't think any of us know what that means. Will the arms supply be used to save lives or fall into the wrong hands and kill our own efforts. Is it a chess move in the war room. So many factions and countries involved in addition to the U.S. and Russia. Russia laughs at U.S. moves. No flak for Russia's moves at home. No flak for China at home. All watching playing the game while people die. Diversion from the doomsday state of the planet. We'd be horrified to know the origin, the manufacturer of arms that are killing our troops and allies.
4
Obama is out of control. No experience, no common sense, just dive in and create more problems. Thankfully his rule is ending soon. Trump will act smarter than Obama has so far done.
Supporting coups in nations you are allied with, harboring terrorists, arming a terrorist organization your government recognizes as terrorist.... Dumb, very dumb.
Supporting coups in nations you are allied with, harboring terrorists, arming a terrorist organization your government recognizes as terrorist.... Dumb, very dumb.
10
Thought for the day: If we don't want other nations looking the other way with regard to our terrorists, we should stop supporting their terrorists.
5
A war of his own? What's the matter with Obama? Does he think he is some kind of Vietnam reenactor? Vietnam started with advisors, and ended with 55,000 dead American troops.
The best involvement in Syria is no involvement. Even their next-door neighbor, Israel, is staying out of it.
The Russians want to own Syria? Good, let them. We already own both Iraq and Afghanistan; beyond some kind of weird "pride of ownership", what good has it done us?
Does ISIS or Assad threaten the United States? Only if we purposely let their people into our country - they don't have a Navy; how would they get here otherwise?
Fix problems at home, don't create problems overseas.
The best involvement in Syria is no involvement. Even their next-door neighbor, Israel, is staying out of it.
The Russians want to own Syria? Good, let them. We already own both Iraq and Afghanistan; beyond some kind of weird "pride of ownership", what good has it done us?
Does ISIS or Assad threaten the United States? Only if we purposely let their people into our country - they don't have a Navy; how would they get here otherwise?
Fix problems at home, don't create problems overseas.
40
Psst...'owning' Iraq and Afghanistan is a colossal drain on the treasury, with no end in sight
Exactly, Peter. Well said!
A . The Russians do not want to "own "Syria" - they just felt duped when they allowed the "no-fly-zone" in Libya and saw what it really meant: going to war for a cheap "regime change". And they did not once again end up as stupid bystanders.
B. Assad has never threatened the USA - and ISIL? ISIL is Killary's product.
B. Assad has never threatened the USA - and ISIL? ISIL is Killary's product.
Did everyone miss this, "The Kurds have also recently lost one regular source of arms — the Syrian government — as a result of the political rapprochement between Turkey and Russia, and clashes between Kurds and Syrian Army troops."
The Syrian government was arming the Kurds because Syria and Turkey have been warring for many years. This is simply a no-win place for America to be involved. Arming any of them might simply get us another Bin Laden as it did in Afghanistan. Get America, our troops, our weapons and our money out of there.
The Syrian government was arming the Kurds because Syria and Turkey have been warring for many years. This is simply a no-win place for America to be involved. Arming any of them might simply get us another Bin Laden as it did in Afghanistan. Get America, our troops, our weapons and our money out of there.
6
The US Government can't invade Iran until they take out Syria. The only problem is, both countries are allies of Russia, who now has a growing presence in the region, thanks to US war mongering for fossil fuels.
1
Kurds are proIranian communistic terrorists. Arming them will make Turkey turn to Russia and Assad. US already made a lot mistakes over there. Don't make the dumbest one
2
Too little too late. Amazing the effect a national election can have on international events.
2
Defeating ISIS should drive Obama's decision. Kurds
are effective fighters and can push ISIS out of Raqqa.
Turkey's policy about Kurds is absurd, oppressive and
against the peace and unity in Turkey. Ignore
Erdogan's cynicism and arm Kurds. West has betrayed
Kurds too often from 1919( when they were promised
their own state) to Gulf War 1 when George H W Bush
inspired them to rise against Saddam Hussein and
let them be slaughtered offering no help.For once, we
should have a clear and determined policy to help Kurds.
are effective fighters and can push ISIS out of Raqqa.
Turkey's policy about Kurds is absurd, oppressive and
against the peace and unity in Turkey. Ignore
Erdogan's cynicism and arm Kurds. West has betrayed
Kurds too often from 1919( when they were promised
their own state) to Gulf War 1 when George H W Bush
inspired them to rise against Saddam Hussein and
let them be slaughtered offering no help.For once, we
should have a clear and determined policy to help Kurds.
5
Another mission doomed from the start. Arming ISIS to regime change Syria, arming Free Syrian Army to fight ISIS all failed miserably so I don't know why they think this latest round will work. In fact, I don't know why Hillary think regime change Syria would work in the first place.
The Kurds will want bigger arms like those US gave to ISIS a few years ago and if the US gave it to them, Turkey will give ISIS bigger arms to fight back (assuming Turkey isn't giving ISIS bigger arms right now). With enough arms Kurds will want to liberate their oppressed people in Turkey and the US will give Turkey more military aids. Russia will continue to keep the western part of the country livable while America and its allies will be funding a three sided war in eastern Syria and soon southeastern Turkey.
The Kurds will want bigger arms like those US gave to ISIS a few years ago and if the US gave it to them, Turkey will give ISIS bigger arms to fight back (assuming Turkey isn't giving ISIS bigger arms right now). With enough arms Kurds will want to liberate their oppressed people in Turkey and the US will give Turkey more military aids. Russia will continue to keep the western part of the country livable while America and its allies will be funding a three sided war in eastern Syria and soon southeastern Turkey.
4
Destructive drones and arming other militia is the Obama Adminsitration solution for each poorly conceived U.S. foreign policy intrusion. The President’s gross lack of judgement and knowledge, now apparent on the world stage, is staggering. The U.S. President’s policy decisions have directly led to the growth of ISIS and created a more destabilized world. This level of directionless vacillation is unprecedented. Each U.S. misadventure in the Middle East and Muslim dominated world has caused only more destruction and loss of life. These policy decisions amount to nothing other that war crimes with no good outcomes.
The same President who wishes to disarm the U.S. population is more than willing to arm the rest of the world’s militia. What an unfortunate disconnect he has to reality and cause and effect.
The same President who wishes to disarm the U.S. population is more than willing to arm the rest of the world’s militia. What an unfortunate disconnect he has to reality and cause and effect.
7
Disarm Americans? Oh,please. You're the one suffering delusions.
1
Forget Turkey, arm the Kurds. Way overdue.
10
Why not aid the Kurds? Russia is aiding the Syrian government. After all it's just to fight ISIS/DAESH, right? As for Turkey? Don't the Kurds in Kurdistan have the right to self-determination when it comes to who should govern their traditional homeland? Sort of like Crimea, maybe. After all, Kurdistan was chopped up by Europeans after WWI with the Kurds having no say on what they wanted. Turkey has no moral right to the Turkish part of Kurdistan any more than Syria, Iraq and Iran to the rest of Kurdistan. This is Viet Nam all over again.
6
Arming Syrian Kurds will be ‘another nail in the coffin’ of US foreign policy. Giving arms to Kurds won’t be a deterrent against ISIS rather it will be an effort for establishing autonomous Kurdish region. This move will also put a dent to Turkish US relations which are already at the brink since July 15 coup d’ etat. Russia/Assad has defied the ceasefire in Syria by continuously bombing rebel held areas.
Assad has never conformed to any ceasefire in Syria since 2011. Russia has further added ‘salt to injury’ by bombing UN humanitarian aid convoy killing 30 aid workers. Assad is a monster which US failed to control and he has played havoc with Syrian civilization killing one million civilians. He continues to use chlorine and barrel bombs on hospitals/schools in besieged city of Aleppo. Syrian refugee crisis is the biggest challenge for Turkey, Jordan, and Europe. Terrorism has spread to Nice, Brussels, Ankara, Istanbul, and Paris as the leaders at the global helm failed to resolve the Syrian conflict. Iran and Russia has ruthlessly bombed Syria to oblivion killing tens and thousands of innocent civilians. Genocide/mayhem of Syrian folks must stop at all cost. Otherwise burning ‘middle east’ would set ablaze the entire world. Assad, the junior Pol Pot’, must be stopped before this dreadful conflict destroys the peace in ‘middle east’, Europe.
Putin and Assad have proved time and again that they can't be trusted from Eastern Ukraine to Syria.
Enough is enough!!!
Assad has never conformed to any ceasefire in Syria since 2011. Russia has further added ‘salt to injury’ by bombing UN humanitarian aid convoy killing 30 aid workers. Assad is a monster which US failed to control and he has played havoc with Syrian civilization killing one million civilians. He continues to use chlorine and barrel bombs on hospitals/schools in besieged city of Aleppo. Syrian refugee crisis is the biggest challenge for Turkey, Jordan, and Europe. Terrorism has spread to Nice, Brussels, Ankara, Istanbul, and Paris as the leaders at the global helm failed to resolve the Syrian conflict. Iran and Russia has ruthlessly bombed Syria to oblivion killing tens and thousands of innocent civilians. Genocide/mayhem of Syrian folks must stop at all cost. Otherwise burning ‘middle east’ would set ablaze the entire world. Assad, the junior Pol Pot’, must be stopped before this dreadful conflict destroys the peace in ‘middle east’, Europe.
Putin and Assad have proved time and again that they can't be trusted from Eastern Ukraine to Syria.
Enough is enough!!!
7
This is all well and good; however my question is why wasn't air protection provided for the UN convey that was recently attacked?
4
Naturally I have to wonder: is Obama offering the Syrian Kurds their own nation state? Have you Americans ever noticed that every time you get the natives riled up (Carter in Afghanistan comes to mind), it backfires?
4
Nothing ever backfires for the US Military Terrorists. When you look at it from the perspective of the US defense industry, every imperialist war of aggression started by the US has been wildly profitable for their industry of death. As the blood flows, so too does the blood money profits.
2
The Kurds live in Syria. Turkey is an invading force.
The Kurds have been the main force against ISIS. Turkey lets ISIS members use their country.
The Turks turn out to be less and less our ally, blaming their coup on us.
Do they have to take our base at Incirlik and its nukes (instead of just turning off the electricity, as they did during the coup) before we realize they are not allies?
The Kurds have been the main force against ISIS. Turkey lets ISIS members use their country.
The Turks turn out to be less and less our ally, blaming their coup on us.
Do they have to take our base at Incirlik and its nukes (instead of just turning off the electricity, as they did during the coup) before we realize they are not allies?
9
What a quagmire. Fifteen years of United States military involvement in a place we never should have been in the first place. Thanks George Bush, Jr., Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld and wealthy friends.
Please, Good People of America, do not vote for The Con Don or any republicans who want only fear, anger, hate and war and to diminish OUR governments. There is already too much violence and war in the world and all it does is further enrich the top 1% global financial elite.
Please, Good People of America, do not vote for The Con Don or any republicans who want only fear, anger, hate and war and to diminish OUR governments. There is already too much violence and war in the world and all it does is further enrich the top 1% global financial elite.
5
Thanks also to Hillary's vote and advocacy for the Iraq war, her advocacy for arming and training Syrian rebels, and her push to destroy the Libyan regime.
What did she say to the Wall Street bankers?
Why won't she release the transcripts?
What did she say to the Wall Street bankers?
Why won't she release the transcripts?
6
Democrats signed on, too.
3
and then what? Looking at the vast area in Syria that is now under Kurdish control, is the US going to back the idea of an independent Kurdistan? Is the US going to support Kurdish efforts to keep that territory? Time and time again we have relied on the Kurds to take care of things militarily - but have not supported their efforts towards independence - (mostly due to the complicated relationship with Turkey - but also for some unexplained reason that we had to keep Iraq together). The Kurds have been successful in their efforts against ISIS and there is no reason to think this will change, but once we arm them - I think we need to show other ways in which we are willing to support them.
28
Absolutely, let's arm the Kurdish militias! (who needs the Turkish army when ragtag militias are begging for our guns!).
Then once those militias have helped create a Kurdish state in eternal conflict with Turkey, Syria, Iraq and others, we can intervene again a decade or two (or maybe just a couple of years) down the road. Excellent continuing market for our arms suppliers!
And then, if like the mess we left in Afghanistan (not this time, I mean "last time," when we helped militias fight the Soviets), that Kurdish state becomes a haven for international terrorism, well we can always invade can't we?
So absolutely! What are we waiting for? Arm those Kurds! This is exciting!
Then once those militias have helped create a Kurdish state in eternal conflict with Turkey, Syria, Iraq and others, we can intervene again a decade or two (or maybe just a couple of years) down the road. Excellent continuing market for our arms suppliers!
And then, if like the mess we left in Afghanistan (not this time, I mean "last time," when we helped militias fight the Soviets), that Kurdish state becomes a haven for international terrorism, well we can always invade can't we?
So absolutely! What are we waiting for? Arm those Kurds! This is exciting!
14
" Excellent continuing market for our arms suppliers!"
Sweden and Switzerland should thank us for boosting their large per-capita arms sale income. The masters of war!
Sweden and Switzerland should thank us for boosting their large per-capita arms sale income. The masters of war!
I'll ask a journalistic question: how and why is an article explaining a hugely controversial military issue appearing in the New York Times? Hey, let's not tip our hands, you might say.
The only explanation that makes sense is that this is a trial balloon, emanating from either the Pentagon or the White House, intended to alert Turkey, and also the Kurds (not to mention Syria and Russia) that the U.S. Is seriously exploring providing arms to the arguably best fighting force in the M.E. quagmire.
It is a decision fraught with potential liabilities, not the least of which is that such an action may seriously damage our relations with NATO ally Turkey. All of which demonstrates how extremely complicated these matters are, and that they demand a lot more than shoot-from-the-hip responses, damn the consequences.
Thus the trial balloon, in which reactions will be measured by the CIA, NSA and the State Dept, through intercepts, spies on the ground, and lots of e-evesdropping.
The only explanation that makes sense is that this is a trial balloon, emanating from either the Pentagon or the White House, intended to alert Turkey, and also the Kurds (not to mention Syria and Russia) that the U.S. Is seriously exploring providing arms to the arguably best fighting force in the M.E. quagmire.
It is a decision fraught with potential liabilities, not the least of which is that such an action may seriously damage our relations with NATO ally Turkey. All of which demonstrates how extremely complicated these matters are, and that they demand a lot more than shoot-from-the-hip responses, damn the consequences.
Thus the trial balloon, in which reactions will be measured by the CIA, NSA and the State Dept, through intercepts, spies on the ground, and lots of e-evesdropping.
12
It is interesting to read the comments from some turkish nationals whom are calling the syrian kurds "terrorists" and do not mention that all foreign ISIS fighters crossed to syria from Turkey under the watch of their president and intelligence... look at some photos from southeast turkey too and you would know who are the real terrorists.
42
so we armed the iraqi whose weapons ended up with ISIS...so we are giving weapons to the kurds who are frightening turkey our former friend. What could go wrong? Nothing the USA giving more terrorists weapons won't make worse!
Obama is a disaster!
Obama is a disaster!
4
Obama is actually a fraud. Pure and simple.
3
One would think that the fig leaf was already removed when it was discovered that Turkey was smuggling oil for ISIS and splitting the profits with them on the back market. It's also clear that the US knew about this, as they also knew about Saudi arms going to radical Salafist groups who are no different than ISIS. Turkey was doing the same until the Kurds proved themselves reliable on the battlefield to the US and began to get US air support.
Turkey was never fully on board in the plan to stop ISIS. In fact Turkey was playing a double role; being a US and Saudi ally, while at the same time allowing ISIS to resupply in Turkish controlled territory to strengthen their efforts against Assad.
When any state made up of various different and sometimes conflicted ethnic groups engages in civil war and faces a potential breakup, the key is to keep that from happening. That is how ISIS got started in Iraq to begin with. Have we learned nothing? Obama is right to make pushing ISIS out of Syria his first priority. But he's wrong to see this as temporary so that the US can then shift and continue regime change in Syria.
Too many people have died and the structure of the Syrian state is too fragile to continue this policy. As bitter a pill as it may be, Assad is necessary for stability and stability is necessary to ease the suffering of millions of Syrians. Support the Kurds, but as part of an overall peace plan, not a temporary pause in this ill fated regime change strategy.
Turkey was never fully on board in the plan to stop ISIS. In fact Turkey was playing a double role; being a US and Saudi ally, while at the same time allowing ISIS to resupply in Turkish controlled territory to strengthen their efforts against Assad.
When any state made up of various different and sometimes conflicted ethnic groups engages in civil war and faces a potential breakup, the key is to keep that from happening. That is how ISIS got started in Iraq to begin with. Have we learned nothing? Obama is right to make pushing ISIS out of Syria his first priority. But he's wrong to see this as temporary so that the US can then shift and continue regime change in Syria.
Too many people have died and the structure of the Syrian state is too fragile to continue this policy. As bitter a pill as it may be, Assad is necessary for stability and stability is necessary to ease the suffering of millions of Syrians. Support the Kurds, but as part of an overall peace plan, not a temporary pause in this ill fated regime change strategy.
85
Wrong. Why would anyone who has been bombed and gassed by Assad now be willing to live under him?
1
Removing Assad could be as disastrous for Syria as the Iraqis suffered due to the removal of Saddam on the pretext of WMD.
Drspock don't you understand we want the kurds to take Raqqa so Syria can be divided and then a pipeline would be built.
Jimmy Carter writes "stop the killing".
Obama administration considers "increase the killing".
Can the Kurds kill enough ISIS people so that ISIS ideology will wither and die?
Or does killing beget killing beget killing?
Obama administration considers "increase the killing".
Can the Kurds kill enough ISIS people so that ISIS ideology will wither and die?
Or does killing beget killing beget killing?
6
Another military industrial complex win. Americans have become sheep with this endless war on terror. We complain about supplying food for kids SNAP which is a half of half percent in discretionary spending but have no problem with the trillions we spend on WMD. The military budget is 60% of our discretionary tax spending. The MIC spending is so out of control it can't be effectively audited. Arguably the downfall of America.
18
How about we arm the Kurds, who have been the only reliable allies int the region, and if Turkey complains, just deny it or say someone else is arming them, not us. After all, this kind of strategy works great for Putin. We should learn from him and not just criticize.
37
War is war. Politics is about not offending and cajoling. ISIS has demonstrated that they are a true threat to civilization. ISIS has committed atrocities and crimes against humanity. They are proud of their crimes, their genocide.
Turkey doesn't tell the United States of America what to do. Turkey is controlled by an elected dictator who is trying to get himself a lifetime position by eliminating all political opposition.
ISIS must not only be defeated, but totally eliminated. Only the Kurds have demonstrated that they have the will and determination to do the hard, dirty work. We should not only supply them with small arms, we should supply them with heavy weapons to defeat ISIS. If Turkey doesn't want any Kurds anywhere to possess heavy weaponry, then maybe it's time for Turkey to change course and try to get along with the Kurds.
We cannot let the battle against ISIS be hindered because of the desires of a Putin mini-me. Erdogan does not control US policy. We do.
Turkey doesn't tell the United States of America what to do. Turkey is controlled by an elected dictator who is trying to get himself a lifetime position by eliminating all political opposition.
ISIS must not only be defeated, but totally eliminated. Only the Kurds have demonstrated that they have the will and determination to do the hard, dirty work. We should not only supply them with small arms, we should supply them with heavy weapons to defeat ISIS. If Turkey doesn't want any Kurds anywhere to possess heavy weaponry, then maybe it's time for Turkey to change course and try to get along with the Kurds.
We cannot let the battle against ISIS be hindered because of the desires of a Putin mini-me. Erdogan does not control US policy. We do.
81
After the US betrayal of the Kurds in Manbij (where many hundreds died, including three American volunteers), I, a Westerner, do not think they should march to Raqqa -- which is majority Arab -- without explicit promises for continued American support.
They probably think the plan is insane after what the American government pulled, cajoling Turkey, and throwing the Kurds to the metaphorical wolves.
The only chance of rapprochement is to back the Kurds big time, publicly, and with more than just small arms.
Turkey will never be the model secular state that Ataturk wants now that the Islamist autocrat, Erdogan, is the Ottoman Sultan for life.
It's time to stop making a mockery out of democracy by tacitly supporting Erdogan. If they want out of NATO, so be it. All the better before Turkey erupts in a civil war of its own creation.
Blackmailing the West with refugees should earn Turkey complete ostracism from the West and not this cycle of appeasement and trepidation which only undermines the moral credibility of the West.
They probably think the plan is insane after what the American government pulled, cajoling Turkey, and throwing the Kurds to the metaphorical wolves.
The only chance of rapprochement is to back the Kurds big time, publicly, and with more than just small arms.
Turkey will never be the model secular state that Ataturk wants now that the Islamist autocrat, Erdogan, is the Ottoman Sultan for life.
It's time to stop making a mockery out of democracy by tacitly supporting Erdogan. If they want out of NATO, so be it. All the better before Turkey erupts in a civil war of its own creation.
Blackmailing the West with refugees should earn Turkey complete ostracism from the West and not this cycle of appeasement and trepidation which only undermines the moral credibility of the West.
3
"ISIS must not only be defeated, but totally eliminated."
It would have been less costly to do that when they were the junior varsity.
It would have been less costly to do that when they were the junior varsity.
1
I have always sympathized with and supported the Kurds who are deserving of their own state with established borders. Joe Biden was right when he once suggested partitioning Iraq into Sunni, Shia, and Kurdish territories. It is still a worthy goal and one that should receive serious consideration by the next administration.
However, given the disastrous consequences of the Obama/Clinton moves to date, I would strongly suggest a pull back from choosing sides in this mess and let the next administration bring its approach to bear.
However, given the disastrous consequences of the Obama/Clinton moves to date, I would strongly suggest a pull back from choosing sides in this mess and let the next administration bring its approach to bear.
US should support the Kurds and arm them with heavy weaponry. Turkey is a dictatorship and full os support for islamic terrorism. Kurds are the only peaceful nation in the middle east. Erdogan has sympathy for isis. If there were a kurdish country, US had a very reliable friend in middle east. Turkey is already an islamic dictatorship.
63
While I understand the policy and admire the Kurds and their struggle for freedom or at least autonomy, i dont agree with our countries need to be involved everywhere. This is not our fight and we have no interests here except for a humanitarian aid. I would like to see our country go back to our historic pre-WWII role being a neutral arbitrator of other countries conflicts and a humanitarian role to aid the people of the world caught up in these conflicts. By now it should be obvious that our nation building foreign policy is a bust and only helps our military support industry and those that thrive on the chaos that war ( for what ever reason) brings.
5
As difficult as this decision- how to help our loyal ally the Kurds - is, we know what our neutrality got us before WWII...
1
Exaxtly! We should let European Contries or Russia deal with them as it is closer to their region. Not our war, not our business. We shall not be picking sides in foreign conflicts. Let those in the region figure it out.
2
Unfortunately this is our fight because the Syrian civil war started with Hillary trying to overthrow Assad by arming moderate rebels who are democratic, genders-equal, college educated and who turned out to be ISIS.
It's ironic that people are complaining about sending guns into a war zone, yet the cry of the NRA, which is widely accepted by the party in charge of Congress, is that we need more guns on the streets of the United States.
Meanwhile, the Congress, which is the part of government whose responsibility is declaring war, remains strangely silent on the war in the Middle East.
Meanwhile, the Congress, which is the part of government whose responsibility is declaring war, remains strangely silent on the war in the Middle East.
2
The real irony is that our government would like to DISARM the law abiding US citizens here but are somehow ok with using OUR tax dollars to send military grade weapons to rebel strangers in foreign wars with no strings attached. Remember that today's rebels are tomorrow's terrorists. ISIS and Syria is not our war, it is not our business. We need to stay out of foreign conflicts as it backfires against us. We shall not pick sides in their wars eitehr. Let Europe deal with them. We shall not police the world.
4
An interesting question for each of the Presidential candidates is whether they would seek a declaration of war from Congress against ISIS. I would also like to hear the rationale behind their response. While this may be largely symbolic, it is perhaps not and would be unifying to the country, and we also have to remember that symbolism is very important to ISIS and its followers.
3
Obama has no idea of what is is doing in a world he doesn't see. Always a dollar short & a day late is Obama foreign policy. The US military has equipment that has no parts to operate, not even the spare parts the military stocks up on. He has every military general with one hand tied behind their back & forced retired others who didn't agree with his screwed up foreign policies. He has done what no president has ever did, call a red line & renege on it. A show of indecisiveness & God help the soldiers & sailors whose life depends on immediate action. With Obama it is get shot first before shooting! He would rather have thousands of refugees killed then to sacrifice a few in order to do the right thing. Not the president I want while serving my country.
16
Sounds like Hillary
"Mr. Obama has told aides that he wants an offensive well underway before he leaves office that is aimed at routing the Islamic State from Raqqa, the group’s de facto capital in northern Syria."
Too bad Obama donated his Nobel prize money to charity. He could have purchased assault weapons for the Kurds.
Obama claimed, during the 2012 elections, that he ended the war in Iraq and left it with a stable government. Then he didn't. Wrote off the ISIS as the junior varsity and claimed it was contained. This was before we had homegrown ISIS attacks within the US. He helped destabilize Libya which now has Christians being beheaded for their religious beliefs. Obama praised the Arab Spring in Syria. We are now in Cold War Part 2.
Reset and pivot across that line in the sand.
Way to to Mister President! Flames from end to end in the Middle East, all on your watch. Good job.
Too bad Obama donated his Nobel prize money to charity. He could have purchased assault weapons for the Kurds.
Obama claimed, during the 2012 elections, that he ended the war in Iraq and left it with a stable government. Then he didn't. Wrote off the ISIS as the junior varsity and claimed it was contained. This was before we had homegrown ISIS attacks within the US. He helped destabilize Libya which now has Christians being beheaded for their religious beliefs. Obama praised the Arab Spring in Syria. We are now in Cold War Part 2.
Reset and pivot across that line in the sand.
Way to to Mister President! Flames from end to end in the Middle East, all on your watch. Good job.
7
Support for the Syrian Kurds and for Kurds in general is long overdue. They have been the most reliable fighters against ISIS (Daesh) in Iraq and have also been prominent in fighting for women's rights and a more secular society. Meanwhile Erdogan consolidates his dictatorial powers by firing 40,000 civil servants and teachers in Turkey and suppressing any free speech. This is our NATO ally?
117
"This is our NATO ally?"
Yes, and we would all do well to remember that.
Yes, and we would all do well to remember that.
Likely to some US senators opinion I think, that it would be no good idea to support anybody else than Turkish Troops in that region.
Turkey is a reliable and loyal NATO-ally since decades, especially concerning the USA. There is a close partnership between both nations and their people.
The Turkish people appreciates American friendship.
I really don´t like the idea that a NATO-Partner like the USA would support an internationally known terror group like the pkk aka ypg, which is responsible for decades of terror and thousands of murdered Turkish citizens.
The ideology of those groups is maintainly socialist.
The kurds in common who pretend to fight against IS because of ideological or religious reasons are primarily aiming at conquering country.
Therefor they don´t really care with whom they cooperate and try to take every chance to be supported by anybody anyway.
I could even imagine that they would turn against every former supporter, if their aims are reached.
I guess that appr. 60 % of the so called ypg members are actually pkk-terrorists, who were active in Turkey.
There is a very big probability, that those folks pendle between syria, iraq and Turkey.
Could you imagine how mad it would make to get news about terror and victims in Turkey, whereby weapons and military equipement from a NATO-ally was used?
Aslan
Turkey is a reliable and loyal NATO-ally since decades, especially concerning the USA. There is a close partnership between both nations and their people.
The Turkish people appreciates American friendship.
I really don´t like the idea that a NATO-Partner like the USA would support an internationally known terror group like the pkk aka ypg, which is responsible for decades of terror and thousands of murdered Turkish citizens.
The ideology of those groups is maintainly socialist.
The kurds in common who pretend to fight against IS because of ideological or religious reasons are primarily aiming at conquering country.
Therefor they don´t really care with whom they cooperate and try to take every chance to be supported by anybody anyway.
I could even imagine that they would turn against every former supporter, if their aims are reached.
I guess that appr. 60 % of the so called ypg members are actually pkk-terrorists, who were active in Turkey.
There is a very big probability, that those folks pendle between syria, iraq and Turkey.
Could you imagine how mad it would make to get news about terror and victims in Turkey, whereby weapons and military equipement from a NATO-ally was used?
Aslan
2
Turkey was never a reliable ally. The only reason Turkey is in NATO was because of US and Turkey's mutual dislike of Russia/Soviet Union. Let's not forget Turkey actually invaded a NATO member, Greece, and still occupies half the Greek island of Cyprus.
3
Turkey has become an ireligious state, thanks to Erdogan. Nothing will be lost now or in the future regards US/Turkey relations so long as Erdogan is in charge. Best Obama cuts a new diplomatic path with Turkey now rather than wait to see how Erdogan's islamist lite turns out in Turkey. The kurds are a now a moderate power in the area. Regarding them as a possible counter point to both despotic Syria and a possible islamist lite Turkey seems prudent IMO.
5
It is not easy to keep track of the players and shifting alliances in Syria. How to end this warfare remains elusive and there is little desire among the combatants to do anything except receive more weapons. ISIS will lose Raqqa eventually. Maybe in 2016. The YPG and the Turks will keep fighting a perpetual war. Assad is less reasonable by the day. And ISIS is alive in Africa and Pakistan.
So, this is a puzzle that cannot be solved. Syria floods Europe with refugees, which is the exact goal of Putin. Russia is winning in Syria awash with weapons and deadly fighters returning to France, Belgium and other once nice places...
So, this is a puzzle that cannot be solved. Syria floods Europe with refugees, which is the exact goal of Putin. Russia is winning in Syria awash with weapons and deadly fighters returning to France, Belgium and other once nice places...
The Kurds are the only good guys in this entire Syrian War
The Kurds are mostly Sunni Moslems, but include Yazidis and some Christians
The Syrian Kurds want a secular inclusive statelet and share our values of woman's rights, freedom and respect for minorities
Their all woman frontline units include snipers and female tank crews!
These units have taken casualties as they have stood up to Isis and defeated them with our air support.
The Syrian Kurds are using old soviet arms, mostly battlefield captures from Isis
Their few tanks are tolls extracted from Syrian Army units allowed to retreat through Kurdish lines.
We should support them over our "ally" Turkey.
Give them a few turbo prop ground attack planes and some artillery pieces and they will be Raqqa without any American troops needed!
The Kurds are mostly Sunni Moslems, but include Yazidis and some Christians
The Syrian Kurds want a secular inclusive statelet and share our values of woman's rights, freedom and respect for minorities
Their all woman frontline units include snipers and female tank crews!
These units have taken casualties as they have stood up to Isis and defeated them with our air support.
The Syrian Kurds are using old soviet arms, mostly battlefield captures from Isis
Their few tanks are tolls extracted from Syrian Army units allowed to retreat through Kurdish lines.
We should support them over our "ally" Turkey.
Give them a few turbo prop ground attack planes and some artillery pieces and they will be Raqqa without any American troops needed!
8
Agree! They are really the only group in the area that has goals aligned closely with our own. They have a somewhat socialist system that involves all citizens in decisions from the grassroots up. They seem to be extremely brave fighters.
It will just be difficult to reconcile Turkey will any acceptance of the Kurds, as they have branded them terrorists and traitors (though recently anyone -- schoolteachers, journalists, etc-- who might possibly have an issue with the gov't is branded a terrorist and traitor, so Turkish gov't credibility is very thin).
It will just be difficult to reconcile Turkey will any acceptance of the Kurds, as they have branded them terrorists and traitors (though recently anyone -- schoolteachers, journalists, etc-- who might possibly have an issue with the gov't is branded a terrorist and traitor, so Turkish gov't credibility is very thin).
3
Yes by all means President Obama let's send more arms to a region already bristling with them. I'm sick of this continuous arms dealing with the Saudis, the Kurds, the Egyptians and on and on and on.
Do me a favor go look at your Peace Prize and try to live up to it.
Do me a favor go look at your Peace Prize and try to live up to it.
6
The Kurds have proved to be very effective fighters against ISIS, assiisting them is a no-brainer in my opinion
8
This is a story without a good ending. Whether we arm the Kurds or do not arm the Kurds will not settle grievances in this area. I think Obama's general plan of limited involvement is correct for our interests, but too many fractions are involved to have any lasting solution.
3
That's a lot of up-front spin for a failed foreign policy.
1
I think that President Obama's foreign policy has worked in the best interest of the US. That may be a limited view, but all nations need to look after their own interests first.
Yeah, lets just keep dumping more and more fire power into an area of the world that is already awash in weapons. We can all see how well that's worked out...
7
Turkey, a NATO ally, is not going to like arming the Kurds by the US.
Once again, a feckless and inept policy by the Obama administration will produce even more chaos in the Middle East.
Once again, a feckless and inept policy by the Obama administration will produce even more chaos in the Middle East.
7
This will be big mistake for obama administration. Syria Kurds have very strong ties with PKK terrorist organisation. U.S.A recognize them officially terrorist organisation. America must stand with Turkey a N.A.T.O allied.
2
Figured that out, did he? Too little, too late, Bro. The one cohesive fighting force in that neck of the woods. I love President Obama, but he can be kinda slow on the uptake. If Turkey is indeed our friend in the struggle, they must get on board with this.
1
It's not going to be easy to get Turkey to "get on board with this"! Turkish gov't has basically spent the last 40 or so years fighting/suppressing etc the Kurds in their Southeast corner. They view them as terrorists, their enemy #1, much more so than ISIS.
If you look at videos of some of the major Kurdish cities inside Turkey that have been bombed extensively by their own gov't, it looks basically the same as the ruined cities of Syria.
If you look at videos of some of the major Kurdish cities inside Turkey that have been bombed extensively by their own gov't, it looks basically the same as the ruined cities of Syria.
1
There is a much larger Kurdish issue that Obama and most of the West cannot seem to address which makes arming them a dangerous play They are a highly persecuted people throughout the Muslim dominated Middle East but there is currently no focus on providing for their ultimate security. So arming them, without an end game, even if the war against ISIS is successful, is simply adding arms to a future dangerous conflict. The Kurds have a more legitimate need for a secure state than the Palestinians, but there is nearly no attention to this issue, and endless, often completely misguided attention on the Palestinian issue. The Palestinian issue is easily resolved by their giving a secure realistic pledge to peacefully accept the right of existence of the State of Israel. Not anything like that exists for the Kurds.
11
Which Syrian Kurds are involved? The peshmerga mercenaries, American surrogates who never lead the fight until its over OR the courageous socialist Kurds of the PKK who stood their ground at Kobani and gave ISIS one of its big defeats?
Knowing Pres. Obama it is very likely must be the first group only.
And is it true that Obama is being offered a seat on Goldman Sachs' Board of Directors when he leaves office?
Knowing Pres. Obama it is very likely must be the first group only.
And is it true that Obama is being offered a seat on Goldman Sachs' Board of Directors when he leaves office?
5
Isn't Israel on record as saying that they don't want ISIS to lose?
We help Israel, which helps ISIS, and we also help the Kurds to fight ISIS. This is like our helping both Iran and Iraq during their long war that slaughtered millions from both sides. Are we hoping, as Kissinger had put it at the time, that both sides would lose? Insane!
We help Israel, which helps ISIS, and we also help the Kurds to fight ISIS. This is like our helping both Iran and Iraq during their long war that slaughtered millions from both sides. Are we hoping, as Kissinger had put it at the time, that both sides would lose? Insane!
3
The fact is that Israel has been supporting the Kurds consistently. In fact, the Kurds see themselves as similar to pre-state Israel: they are a distinct ethnic group from their Arab neighbors and are treated as second class (or worse) citizens in their historical homeland. If much of the world supports a state for Palestinian Arabs, who are indistinct from Syrian and Jordanian Arabs, how much more deserving of their own state are the Kurdish people? Perhaps if the Kurds had the Jews as enemies rather than allies, their national aspirations would gain world support.
2
Here we go again, not another one of our half baked schemes that hatches a bunch of unintended consequences that nobody can imagine.
8
It's about time.
I realize Erdogan doesn't want a Kurdish state on his border, but Kurds are a moderate Muslim minority that has suffered under Alawite rule.
I realize Erdogan doesn't want a Kurdish state on his border, but Kurds are a moderate Muslim minority that has suffered under Alawite rule.
32
If the Alawites lose power we know exactly what will happen in Syria- every non-Arab non-Sunni Muslim will be killed. Every. Single. One.
And then every Arab-Sunni who is not the right kind of Arab-Sunni will be killed.
Lets get serious here- whoever wins in Syria is going to be brutal towards their enemies- but Sunni-Arabs have a long track record of being the most brutal.
And then every Arab-Sunni who is not the right kind of Arab-Sunni will be killed.
Lets get serious here- whoever wins in Syria is going to be brutal towards their enemies- but Sunni-Arabs have a long track record of being the most brutal.
2
If the Alawites lose power we know exactly what will happen in Syria- every non-Arab non-Sunni Muslim will be killed. Every. Single. One.
And then every Arab-Sunni who is not the right kind of Arab-Sunni will be killed.
Lets get serious here- whoever wins in Syria is going to be brutal towards their enemies- but Sunni-Arabs have a long track record of being the most brutal.
The Kurds are better off under Assad than they would be under any government dominated by Sunni-Arabs.
And then every Arab-Sunni who is not the right kind of Arab-Sunni will be killed.
Lets get serious here- whoever wins in Syria is going to be brutal towards their enemies- but Sunni-Arabs have a long track record of being the most brutal.
The Kurds are better off under Assad than they would be under any government dominated by Sunni-Arabs.
Ideally a broader coalition that already has the capacity to defeat ISIS should be possible rather than favoring one proxy force at the expense of the other is only going to create a worse situation. When the fighting is over and Assad is gone what we would face should not be a Kurdish conquest of previously Arab majority provinces. The displaced population of Syrian Arabs will come back and over two million of them will not accept a fait accompli. Both UN and US policy is in favor of repatriation of these people to their hometowns. Anything else, years of civil strife and instability will follow.
1
The Kurds appear to be the only good actors in the entire region.
The US should support the creation of a Kurdistan- out of northern Iraq, Syria and Turkey.
Then we can kick Turkey out of NATO and take Kurdistan in.
They can be our ally in the region- a real one instead of the fake terror-sponsoring states like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Turkey.
The US should support the creation of a Kurdistan- out of northern Iraq, Syria and Turkey.
Then we can kick Turkey out of NATO and take Kurdistan in.
They can be our ally in the region- a real one instead of the fake terror-sponsoring states like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Turkey.
131
Not entirely so, the Jordanians have continued to support more refugees then their economy can possible absorb.
2
Also, the ever-unappreciated-when-not-outright-targeted medics and hospitals in the area. Oases in the desert.
I can't wait for logic to finally govern the Mideast, and the Kurds to govern their hard-earned state.
I can't wait for logic to finally govern the Mideast, and the Kurds to govern their hard-earned state.
1
The kurds are the trap that Russians iranians and syrian have put for us there.
That is why they have not been attacked much by Syria.
If we start trying to arm them, It will cause the turks to peel off. which means no supply going from turkey, and probably prevention of our planes using their bases. Then it would be the end of that.
If they leave NATO then they will join Russia and Iranian axis,which would be a complete strategic defeat.
If we don't Arm them, then they will stop helping us.
So the best is just what we have been doing.
That is why they have not been attacked much by Syria.
If we start trying to arm them, It will cause the turks to peel off. which means no supply going from turkey, and probably prevention of our planes using their bases. Then it would be the end of that.
If they leave NATO then they will join Russia and Iranian axis,which would be a complete strategic defeat.
If we don't Arm them, then they will stop helping us.
So the best is just what we have been doing.
Syrian Kurdish militias, a formidable force though against the ISIS, yet the time to strengthen their muscle against the ISIS is long past, as instead of getting desired outcome such a decision is likely to further complicate the situation by infuriating Turkey and other old US allies in the region which might cause more chaos in the already volatile region. If the US is really serious at defeating the ISIS it should rather join hands with Russia and Iran who could at least deliver the result. In that case even Turkey would be compelled to come on board, and might avoid acting at cross purposes, as its doing now, or bombing the Syrian Kurds while pretending a fight against the ISIS.
1
'Cause evreybody knows how empowerment of the Shia is working our for Iraq.
Defeating ISIS is not the only issue. Syria is in a civil war against Assad. The taking out of ISIS does nothing as to this. Assad a long supporter of terrorism wanted out by the US and its allies but wanted in by Russia. Turkey, also an enemy of Assad, along with seeing the Kurds, who want part of Turkey's land for their own nation, would never see arming the Kurds as being acceptable. Also Iran wants Assad to remain in power making them not friendly towards US or Turkish interests. Iran a long supporter of terrorism also. Turks have been fighting the Kurds way longer than the existence ISIS as has Iraq, another party to the whole mess, who doesn't see the Kurds in a positive light. Iraq a Shiite dominated country and government, sees Iran and Assad as positives these days in its civil war against the Sunni, represented by ISIS. It spreads further to the Saudi Arabia, a Sunni nation, and fearing Iran and Shiites. The Saudis, already fighting a proxy war against Iran, in Yemen. When an issue has so many sides and differing issues for all involved, it can't be reduced to just one, that overrides all the others for all the parties involved.
Flooding the region with more arms. What could possibly go wrong?
Historial precedent conclusively shows this, like every other past action of giving arms to a particular group, will end in failure.
Violence never brings about Peace. Never.
Historial precedent conclusively shows this, like every other past action of giving arms to a particular group, will end in failure.
Violence never brings about Peace. Never.
8
A Kurdish state is much deserved . Far more then a Palestinian state .this should be a major world issue, and a declaration of statehood is a must.
93
Far more than a Paletinian State?!? And the West has such a stellar record over the past two centuries, bringing peace, prosperity, stability to other regions by re-arranging borders and territories? What the mission ough to be is to help build a polotical culture and institutions that sustain states that recognize individual rights, not etho-centric, sectarian entities that Are in contention with their their neighbors all the time.
3
WOW, it's almost like Bibi himself was posting. More than a Palestinian state indeed!
2
What you say is perfectly plausible but it would mean, inter alia, a redefinition of Turkey whose very name is 'ethno-centric' and has in discourse and practice violently imposed one particular ethno-lingusitic identity and culture over an ethno-linguiscually diverse population. To obviate the pertinence of a 'Kurdish state' Turkey (and Iran and Iraq) have to abandon the catastrophic unitary conception of their states, that poisonous gift of the West. Decentralisation and devolution of power, constitutional recognition of the rights and duties of different ethno-national populations is the only way to end the century long cycle of blood and destruction.
Too little to late. While Obama slept ISIS has established beat heads all over the world. While Obama slept terrorism is on the rise. While Obama slept the world has become a much more dangerous place. A band -aide on the way out the door will never fix it.
5
Correction : it is beach head ,not " beat head".
The choices were send US troops like Iraq 2003 ( remember Fallujah) and risk spending trillions of dollars and thousands of US lifes/limbs or let the locals fix it with our air support. ISIS is being systematically destroyed at little cost to US.
Obama desreves credit for playing a long ,smart and affordable game.
The choices were send US troops like Iraq 2003 ( remember Fallujah) and risk spending trillions of dollars and thousands of US lifes/limbs or let the locals fix it with our air support. ISIS is being systematically destroyed at little cost to US.
Obama desreves credit for playing a long ,smart and affordable game.
It is time to face reality, cede Turkey to Asia, get the nukes out of there, move Incirlik operations to Greece, Cyprus or elsewhere, and kick Turkey out of NATO. The so-called liberal forces in Turkey have failed. The government is openly hostile to the West and not a trustworthy ally. Cut the cord.
122
Turkey has repeatedly impeded US actions and interests. Back the Kurds.
11
eh, Turkey is a sovereign nation with almost 100 million citizens and a democratically elected president. Cede Turkey to Asia is like saying cede the U.S. to central America. We are not God, we cannot "cede" countries to anywhere. YIKES!
4
The opposition parties in Turkey also have either been disenfranchised entirely (i.e. HDP) or have cowed to the will of the AKP (i.e. CHP, MHP) for fear of reprisal in this era of virulent Turkish nationalism that is splintering the nation.
There is no credible opposition in Turkey, no checks to Sultan Erdogan, and no hope for any lull in the ethnic tensions and conspiratorial "FETO" hysteria.
It's time the USA recognized that the Kurds are the only credible ally in the region and that Turkey only looks out for the interests of Erdogan.
Will the USA choose a reliable, secular-leaning, egalitarian ally or a de facto Islamist dictatorship that has tacitly supported ISIS and aroused anti-Western sentiment at every turn?
There is no credible opposition in Turkey, no checks to Sultan Erdogan, and no hope for any lull in the ethnic tensions and conspiratorial "FETO" hysteria.
It's time the USA recognized that the Kurds are the only credible ally in the region and that Turkey only looks out for the interests of Erdogan.
Will the USA choose a reliable, secular-leaning, egalitarian ally or a de facto Islamist dictatorship that has tacitly supported ISIS and aroused anti-Western sentiment at every turn?
3
Arming fringe groups in this region has always worked so well. What could go wrong this time?
22
But enough about Erdogan.
Overgeneralization.
Kurds are not Islamic terrorists.
Kurds are not Islamic terrorists.
I guess our American arms makers -suppliers of guns, ammunition , tanks etc - need more business.
19
Mr. Obama would be playing with fire if he armed the Syrian Kurds. US doesn't need to look too much back in history to see what happens when it arms a local faction and how those arms are used after it exits the region. In this case, US would be weakening ISIS at the expense of sparking a new war between Turks and Kurds. How will that bring stability to the region? What is needed is not another war, but for US to play a smarter role in how it manages the various parties against the goal of decimating ISIS and establishing the foundation for peace in the region.
10
Yes, please, the Mid-East needs more "guns & ammunition"! The only winners here will be the military industrial complex (jobs!) and the losers will be the citizens of all the countries involved (including the US). Just throw more gasoline on the fire ..... keep the "generals and majors" happy.
27
In the wake of WWII, a lot of lines were drawn on maps by receding European powers, many of them stupidly, from the Middle East to Southeast Asia. And they keep getting the world in trouble. We see Kurdish issues coming up again and again in multiple countries. Should we, perhaps, be supporting a Kurdish state among Muslim powers in exchange for some peace and quiet about Israel? Little of this works under our American view of democracy. We need to bone up on federations and rotational systems of government as a means of moving forward. The Swiss are the people to take the intellectual lead in that effort, since they have the most experience at such a form of government.
8
I guess Obama wants to seem as though he's had some success in Syria before he leaves office. I still am saddened and at a complete and total loss as to why Obama never chose to bomb Syrian air strips. Then at least he could have slowed the miserable air attacks that have taken a catastrophic human toll on the people of Syria. Too little too late Mr. President.
15
"I still am saddened and at a complete and total loss as to why Obama never chose to bomb Syrian air strips."
That's an easy question to answer: Libya. Lesson learned.
That's an easy question to answer: Libya. Lesson learned.
3
Bomb AIR STRIPS not an entire country.
2
Syria destroyed its WMDs ( chemical and possibly biological) in return for us not bombing them. From our national security view , this was a phenomenally good outcome. If the the Syrian goverment & its WMDs had fallen to fanatics that would have created enormous future risk to our country and citizens.
I salute Obama for making the right decision for our national security and will miss his smart leadership
I salute Obama for making the right decision for our national security and will miss his smart leadership
Are you really serious? Why did we have to wait 4 years to arm the Syrians Kurds? This is a shameful legacy for my preferred American President of the past 50 years.
59
It's called "leading from behind!" Go in when too late.
2
Because Turkey a NATO and US partner wants no part of the Kurds being armed who wish to take Turkish land for their own country.
First of all, Kurds are not looking to take the Turkish lands. There is no such desire. We are happy living in our villages that are part of Turkey. We have no issue on being governed by Turks. What we are asking is peace. We don't want to persecuted, we don't want to be murdered, we don't want to be jailed for being a minority. We want to be acknowledged that we are Kurdish. And that it is okay to be Kurdish. And that there is nothing wrong for being Kurdish. We are denied our basic rights in Turkey. We are merely asking for our basic right. Nothing more than that.
1