I knew Dobson held deplorable views, and now I know he abuses animals. The poor dog was fighting for his life -- surprising that the bully human didn't murder him. That would show him who's boss, for sure.
29
AM writes: "As an atheist, I should be for Trump, since he has no real religion..."
No. Trump may have no religion, but he sure as heck panders to Christians and incites hatred and rage toward Muslims. Besides, Hitler was a Catholic and that doesn't mean all Catholics should have supported him.
A person's religious or non-religious beliefs should have no place in a secular, political campaign. In the entire body of the Constitution, there is only one mention of religion, and none of Jesus or Christianity.
Article VI mandates:
"...all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but NO RELIGIOUS TEST shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."
Since the idea of an Oath is believed by some to have a religious connotation,the option of "Affirmation" is always included to accommodate non-religious people (like Thomas Jefferson) and non-Christian Deists among the Founding Fathers.
The phrase "by their Creator" in the Declaration of Independence was not in Jefferson's original draft or any of the Committee of Five's edits, but was added by a person unknown just before the final vote. "Creator" is the neutral term that Deists use to refer to a non-Christian god who created the universe and then withdrew to allow us to use reason and observation to learn about our world.
No. Trump may have no religion, but he sure as heck panders to Christians and incites hatred and rage toward Muslims. Besides, Hitler was a Catholic and that doesn't mean all Catholics should have supported him.
A person's religious or non-religious beliefs should have no place in a secular, political campaign. In the entire body of the Constitution, there is only one mention of religion, and none of Jesus or Christianity.
Article VI mandates:
"...all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but NO RELIGIOUS TEST shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."
Since the idea of an Oath is believed by some to have a religious connotation,the option of "Affirmation" is always included to accommodate non-religious people (like Thomas Jefferson) and non-Christian Deists among the Founding Fathers.
The phrase "by their Creator" in the Declaration of Independence was not in Jefferson's original draft or any of the Committee of Five's edits, but was added by a person unknown just before the final vote. "Creator" is the neutral term that Deists use to refer to a non-Christian god who created the universe and then withdrew to allow us to use reason and observation to learn about our world.
19
"...I don't care about that candidate's tone or vocabulary, I want the meanest, toughest, son of a you-know-what I can find."
And yet it can ONLY be Trump's tone and vocabulary that would lead you to think he is the meanest or the toughest. It cannot be his policies, because he has none. It cannot be his experience, because he has none. And what a pitiful vocabulary it is.
And yet it can ONLY be Trump's tone and vocabulary that would lead you to think he is the meanest or the toughest. It cannot be his policies, because he has none. It cannot be his experience, because he has none. And what a pitiful vocabulary it is.
56
" I fought him up one wall and down the other, with both of us scratching and clawing and growling and swinging the belt." To paraphrase Bart Simpson ("How did a lion get rich?"), how does a dachshund swing a belt? There are a lot of ways to get a dog to do what you want without beating him/her. In addition, how is Trump not a "power-hungry tyrant"? It seems to me he is an almost textbook definition.
33
I often wonder exactly WHICH Bible evangelicals read. Jesus tells us in Matthew "I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me." How can evangelicals not understand this to mean that Christians care for the poor who hunger? Jesus doesn't care if they are lazy or hard-working. We are to love and feed them! That we are supposed to welcome the stranger which included refugees, that we must provide care for the sick: Obamacare fills this. I find the progressive agenda is far more Christian than the far right.
38
Most American evangelicals certainly aren't very Christ-like, but they are firmly in the tradition of Constantinian imperial Christianity.
28
Has James Dobson ever been charged for cruelty to animals. How is this man relevant today?
27
The essence of this piece appears to be, the more impassioned evangelical you are the farther you move away from Christ's sermons.
Though the majority of evangelical Christians are indeed compassionate and helpful, as good Samaritans, as well as charitable (Mike Pence gave away 10% of their meager income to charity!), some of their influential leaders are plain un-Christian. They are FOR death penalty and absolute in their opposition to abortion (such as the "legitimate rape" comment). Unlike spiritual Catholics, they CAN'T see the inherent contradiction in their position. Then again, al-Baghdadi & his followers don't see their departure from the last sermon of Prophet Muhammad.
Though the majority of evangelical Christians are indeed compassionate and helpful, as good Samaritans, as well as charitable (Mike Pence gave away 10% of their meager income to charity!), some of their influential leaders are plain un-Christian. They are FOR death penalty and absolute in their opposition to abortion (such as the "legitimate rape" comment). Unlike spiritual Catholics, they CAN'T see the inherent contradiction in their position. Then again, al-Baghdadi & his followers don't see their departure from the last sermon of Prophet Muhammad.
11
Didn't Jesus say that His Kingdom was not of this world? (John 18:36). Why are nominal Christians interfering in the presidential electoral process on the basis of their Christianity?
18
When the "religious community" embraces a "candidate" such as trump, to borrow from the sixties superman comics we are truly in Bizzaro land.
17
For a good number of people, God and religion are just tools they use to justify their points of view. Kill in the name of God, hate in the name of God, desire ill in the name of God, etc.
There are many who follow God and religion in humility and with a desire to do good. But all the loud, angry so called Christians that you see using the name in vain, have nothing to do with Jesus.
There are many who follow God and religion in humility and with a desire to do good. But all the loud, angry so called Christians that you see using the name in vain, have nothing to do with Jesus.
15
Alas, far too many fundamentalist Protestant Christians--and my own co-religionists, Catholics, but, unlike myself, of a fundamentalist and authoritarian disposition--are casting away their rich inheritance and for what? Nothing more than a bowl of right-wing political porridge.
When will self-styled "Christians" start focusing on the actual words of the Jesus of the Gospels, rather than falling prey to the political machinations of their "religious" leaders?
Jesus called all to a reflective life of redemption through the love of God and neighbor (even Samaritans and one's enemies!), charity for all, self-sacrifice and a keen sense of social justice.
Those who identify as Christians on the basis of what they oppose are reverting to tribalism and destroying the credibility of the Christ's own universalist message.
The entire world stands to lose by this demeaning of Christ's Gospel of charity and hope.
Far too many "Christians" are now preaching a creed that idolizes individualistic capitalist greed and fear of the "Other".
As a result, the potentially ennobling contributions of Christianity, due to the "brand's" association with the unreflective and mean-spirited, are being laughed into insignificance.
For whom do today's "Christians" actually stand? For Christ or for the Anti-Christ and the forces of Mammon?
When will self-styled "Christians" start focusing on the actual words of the Jesus of the Gospels, rather than falling prey to the political machinations of their "religious" leaders?
Jesus called all to a reflective life of redemption through the love of God and neighbor (even Samaritans and one's enemies!), charity for all, self-sacrifice and a keen sense of social justice.
Those who identify as Christians on the basis of what they oppose are reverting to tribalism and destroying the credibility of the Christ's own universalist message.
The entire world stands to lose by this demeaning of Christ's Gospel of charity and hope.
Far too many "Christians" are now preaching a creed that idolizes individualistic capitalist greed and fear of the "Other".
As a result, the potentially ennobling contributions of Christianity, due to the "brand's" association with the unreflective and mean-spirited, are being laughed into insignificance.
For whom do today's "Christians" actually stand? For Christ or for the Anti-Christ and the forces of Mammon?
12
I was in Tulsa last week, and I asked an evangelical Christian (late 20s) how she could support Trump, given how his values so clearly contradicted Christian ones. She said to me "well, it's a vote for my president, not my pastor."
5
That story about James Dobson beating his Dachshund with a belt is going to keep me awake tonight. I wonder if Siggie became the obedient and faithful companion that Mr. Dobson desired.
14
The Siggie story alone says it all. How grotesque. As a therapist who works with families I find Dobson horrifying and disturbing. I guess the standards for reporting to the department of social services in his state are different than in Massachusetts? Given those views of authority ("but I beat you with the belt with love, honey") I now understand why they think Trump is acceptable (we had to deploy that nuclear weapon, and torture and murder our enemies' families to teach them a lesson--war crime, shmore crime).
Under Obama a great many children have been lifted out of poverty and now have health insurance. But you know what Jesus thought, right? Forget the poor, just make sure they're not selling cupcakes to gays in the temple.
Under Obama a great many children have been lifted out of poverty and now have health insurance. But you know what Jesus thought, right? Forget the poor, just make sure they're not selling cupcakes to gays in the temple.
37
Of course all of this calling out of religious extremists (fundamentalists) and hypocrites as "drawing near with their lips while their hearts are far away" only confirms the religious right's conviction that Christianity is under siege, rather than encouraging people to engage in heartfelt self-reflection and prayer for guidance ane understanding.
10
How many times have we heard demands that American Muslims vocally disavow acts of terror by other Muslims here and abroad? How many times have politicians and the media turned a deaf ear to persistent claims by the FBI and local law enforcement that members of he Muslim community are among the principal sources of intelligence regarding potentially dangerous Muslim extremists. Perhaps it's time for Evangelical Christians to vocally disavow the racism, demagoguery and violence in their own communities, including selfish manipulators who seek only to corral their votes? Numerous Evangelical Christians can be counted as selfless, principled and devoted to the highest ideals of their faith. Where are they now? America has never been more in need of true Christians, not venal, power hungry hypocrites like James Dobson et al. The rest of America needs to hear your voices. Perhaps you need to hear them as well.
17
The Christian Right says that they would not want Jesus Christ to be their president, because he would be too weak.
I thought that Jesus Christ has all of the power in the Universe. How could I have been so wrong?
I thought that Jesus Christ has all of the power in the Universe. How could I have been so wrong?
19
As someone who grew up in a religious household and community full of hypocrites (a.k.a. basket of deplorables), this does not surprise me. Moving on.
12
If one is a person of faith, you will be unfazed by the absurd: virgin birth, resurrection, afterlife. The fact that these absurdities have been written down and repeated makes them palatable.
So, when an absurdly bigoted candidate appears, no problem. He says "believe me" and the people of faith reply "amen".
After all, Trump is a man who says, "If someone says nice things about me, I'll say nice things back". Putin, Duke...whoever. He says nice comforting things about the white evangelicals, and his record of un-Christian behavior and utterances is magically 'deported' to never-never land.
As Kurt Vonnegut would say if he were still alive, "So it goes".
Trump = *
So, when an absurdly bigoted candidate appears, no problem. He says "believe me" and the people of faith reply "amen".
After all, Trump is a man who says, "If someone says nice things about me, I'll say nice things back". Putin, Duke...whoever. He says nice comforting things about the white evangelicals, and his record of un-Christian behavior and utterances is magically 'deported' to never-never land.
As Kurt Vonnegut would say if he were still alive, "So it goes".
Trump = *
11
Alan Noble's quote has the ring of another quote: "When they came for the trade-unionists..."
When will the Press get over its knee-jerk love-affair with the Religious Right?
I suspect that day will come on the day that President Trump issues the order for the press to be suspended until it can be ascertained which one's are in the pay of "forces hostile to the United States".
Mr. Birther has only 7 positions on his web-site. But he only needs one: "I've got the belt, you weigh 12 pounds, I weigh 267 pounds, and I will beat you into submission because I love God and God loves the belt. Submit!"
Where was this article, Mr. Edsall, a year ago when the stats for Evangelical's support for Trump first came out?
James Dobson wrote his book in 1978. We've known who he is for decades.
And, for decades, we've told you who this loony is, who his 'followers' are, that it's all blood and control over there.
Trump is a cult, a blood-cult. Didn't you learn ANYTHING from Jim Jones, David Koresh, the Heaven's Gate cult? The Religious Right did. They learned that no one was paying attention to them. They could beat their children and no one would care... because they were "religious'. They understood YOU perfectly.
We know who they are - that's why the numbers have exploded on the "Nones". They will have nothing to do with them.
Now you have the Trump Cult, a deadly mix of the underbelly of this nation, guns and beating "dogs".
This article is one year too late.
When will the Press get over its knee-jerk love-affair with the Religious Right?
I suspect that day will come on the day that President Trump issues the order for the press to be suspended until it can be ascertained which one's are in the pay of "forces hostile to the United States".
Mr. Birther has only 7 positions on his web-site. But he only needs one: "I've got the belt, you weigh 12 pounds, I weigh 267 pounds, and I will beat you into submission because I love God and God loves the belt. Submit!"
Where was this article, Mr. Edsall, a year ago when the stats for Evangelical's support for Trump first came out?
James Dobson wrote his book in 1978. We've known who he is for decades.
And, for decades, we've told you who this loony is, who his 'followers' are, that it's all blood and control over there.
Trump is a cult, a blood-cult. Didn't you learn ANYTHING from Jim Jones, David Koresh, the Heaven's Gate cult? The Religious Right did. They learned that no one was paying attention to them. They could beat their children and no one would care... because they were "religious'. They understood YOU perfectly.
We know who they are - that's why the numbers have exploded on the "Nones". They will have nothing to do with them.
Now you have the Trump Cult, a deadly mix of the underbelly of this nation, guns and beating "dogs".
This article is one year too late.
20
Our catechism teaches that God loves and forgives everyone. Did Mr. Edsall or Alan Noble get a denial from God relating to Donald Trump?
4
I wish Journalists would stop using the term Christian Right. The group being referred to is neither Christian or Right (as in correct)!
14
Jesus would not be a member of his own fan club. He would weep at the perversion and abomination that is evangelical so-called Christianity.
25
After reading this piece, all I can think of to say is "Sic 'em Siggie!"
14
There's much foolishness to mock in the arguments of Gary Bauer and the rest of the religious right, but their biggest blunder is to believe that they'll have entree in a Trump administration. Trump cares about them as much as he cares about anyone other than himself: not a whit.
17
The problem is that not one of the pro-Trump evangelicals apprently takes Jesus at His word. God talk is cheap; walking as a disciple has a cost.
5
Just finished reading Stacy Schiff's, The Witches, and the very detailed quotations which are shared from the Salem trials of 1692 are amazingly similar to the quotations which Edsall shares from the "Christian" leaders in this article. Consider that!
8
No one is more full of "defiance and disrespect" than Donald Trump.
12
If evangelicals would closely read the New Testament, they would find that Jesus say nothing about their political priorities--he sounds like a lefty or Pope Francis. Trump is obviously not spiritual and embodies the qualities of hate and NOT turning the other cheek (too much of an egomaniac to lie and claim he's asked god for forgiveness). Please share this documented list of reasons to support Clinton, read by 15,097: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/open-letter-sanders-supporters-scott-s-sm...
2
This article and poll results just goes to show how :unchristian" the religious right is--hypocrisy at its highest.
5
I can't quite remember where this quote comes from so, with apologies to the writer, it's something like: "If Jesus Christ knew what his followers were doing in his name, he'd never stop throwing up."
7
Clinton and the Democrats have endorsed racial preferences and a view of Black Americans as victims who should be treated differently than other Americans.
Ironically, when white Christians support treating all Americans EQUALLY and with respect, too many Democrats label them "racist".
The term "racist" is so overused that it has lost all meaning.
Ironically, when white Christians support treating all Americans EQUALLY and with respect, too many Democrats label them "racist".
The term "racist" is so overused that it has lost all meaning.
2
Time to headline Hillary Clinton's accomplishments, headline, after headline, after headline, till we get why she's the only viable candidate. Please pass this on to your fellow journalists. Thank you.
11
Mr. Edsall - Thank you for your well-written Op-Ed
6
Yes, the god who punished Job just to stoke his own ego, the god who murdered all the first born babies because he was mad, the god who killed the curious for peeking at the ark of the covenant, the god who burned to death the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, the god who whispers hate in the ears of the KKK, yes that god loves Donald Trump.
9
Trump and the "Christian Right" definitely have at least one thing in common -
none of them are genuine Christians.
none of them are genuine Christians.
10
To paraphrase Holden Caulfield: "If old Jesus were here to see people supporting Donald Trump it would make him wanna puke."
9
God obviously loves Donald Trump; He made the Donald rich. (Or did He? Only Trump's tax accountant knows for sure.)
5
Doesn't all this really confirm that the religious right is not a real religious movement, but a political organization in disguise? Yet media like the Times keep writing as if they actually represent American religion, ignoring the mainstream denominations which are the real religious Americans.
7
As an avatar of Vishnu, I can assure you that our colleague Yahweh does not go anywhere near the snake pit of American electoral politics.
4
Does anyone besides me find it odd that the very same folks who lament American society becoming too "soft and feminine" despise Hillary Clinton for not being soft and feminine enough?
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
15
When asked about Jesus, Trump said "He's no hero, because he was captured by the Romans. I like people that weren't captured." A crowd of evangelicals applauded.
18
People should remember Trump's God is money.
9
Tell me what is wrong with the so called Evangelical Christians and the value voters. I cannot forget what the great cartoonist Chan Lowe said when referring to President Obama and Donald Trump : Lowe speaking about President Obama: "Values voters, despair no longer…the man you’ve been waiting for has been hiding in plain sight for years. Why settle for a serial philanderer and liar whose true convictions are suspect (if they even exist) just because Fox and Rush tell you that you must? Here’s a man who’s never cheated on his wife, is raising two beautiful daughters, is the paragon of everything you profess to hold dear, and is a Christian just like you to boot.
What do you have against a guy who would rather spend the people’s money trying to find you a job fixing the nation’s broken roads and bridges than use it to further fatten the wallets of the already well-fattened? Or who simply wants to provide decent health care to families like yours whose kids may have never seen a doctor unless they were dragged, in extremis, to the emergency room?
Scripture says St. Paul was traveling along the road to Damascus on a mission to persecute those unlike him when he fell to earth. When he got up, the scales dropped from his eyes and suddenly the truth was revealed to him."
What do you have against a guy who would rather spend the people’s money trying to find you a job fixing the nation’s broken roads and bridges than use it to further fatten the wallets of the already well-fattened? Or who simply wants to provide decent health care to families like yours whose kids may have never seen a doctor unless they were dragged, in extremis, to the emergency room?
Scripture says St. Paul was traveling along the road to Damascus on a mission to persecute those unlike him when he fell to earth. When he got up, the scales dropped from his eyes and suddenly the truth was revealed to him."
14
It is amusing and quite illuminating to see professed Christians turn their backs on the poor, rattle sabres instead of turning the other cheek, and support a rich man for our leader, because he is rich. Mr Trump, according to the words of Jesus Christ, is NOT going enter the kingdom of God due to his wealth (Matt. 19:23-24). And who did they vote for last time? Another non-Christian, Mitt Romney. It appears to me that the protestant conservative right has lost it's influence, and it's way.
2
Amazing that fundamentalist Christians yearn for the 50's, when they were just a blip on the radar.
3
"But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, just go after them as viciously and as violently as you can." - Excerpt from the Trump Bible
6
If you ever wanted a metaphor for Trumpism, we now have it with Dobson's bizarre go-at-it with Siggie. Let's face it, this is really about fear and the bully. So then who's weak here? Surely not the big guy, right?
11
These white evangelicals supporting Trump are giving religion a bad name. Young people who are confronted with the Bible as "the word of God" and of Jesus need to exercise their right to 'critical thinking'. The Bible, Old Testament, was originally written in Old Hebrew. It then went through many translations since so I wonder how it can be considered the Word of God. The new Testament was compiled from many such 'testaments' that were boiled down into 4 books. The writers wrote these books many years after Jesus died, so far out that they could not have known him.
The Quran seems to have a similar history. According to Muslims, the Qur'an is a Holy Book which instructs all Muslims in the way of life and obedience to Allah. They view the Qur'an as the final revelation sent down by Allah to his messenger Muhammed. Allah is, apparently, the same God the Christians worship. But, history shows that Muhammed was an illiterate. Jewish scribes actually wrote the Quran. So, technically, both the Bible and the Quran were in fact written by Jews.
Where does that leave us? Christian or Sharia law, that the religious want to dictate and override secular law, are based on suspect, even false, narratives.
The Evangelicals don't have a leg to stand on. They are authoritarians, period.
The Quran seems to have a similar history. According to Muslims, the Qur'an is a Holy Book which instructs all Muslims in the way of life and obedience to Allah. They view the Qur'an as the final revelation sent down by Allah to his messenger Muhammed. Allah is, apparently, the same God the Christians worship. But, history shows that Muhammed was an illiterate. Jewish scribes actually wrote the Quran. So, technically, both the Bible and the Quran were in fact written by Jews.
Where does that leave us? Christian or Sharia law, that the religious want to dictate and override secular law, are based on suspect, even false, narratives.
The Evangelicals don't have a leg to stand on. They are authoritarians, period.
7
So, Reverend Jeffress wants “the meanest, toughest, son of a you-know-what I can find.” to govern. You know, the kind of strong leader who would not let a rabble rouser who told people to listen to God rather than Caesar, get away with disobeying authority, a leader who would come down hard on his opponents, you know, someone who would crucify anyone like that...
3
W-H-I-T-E S-U-P-R-E-M-A-C-Y. That pretty much sums up the majority of Trump's support. People nostalgic about a time when, whether they were aware or not, there lives were better due to the forces of racism. We had to pass laws to block many of the things that inflated white influence and weath. The Voting Rights Act, The Civil Rights Act, etc. So many thought they were somehow special only to realize that minus racism, add in competition, they won't be doing as well. Who lost the most? The same ones who vote hardest for Trump and the GOP - WHITE MEN.
8
The Times is getting increasingly desperate (and deplorable)… but the Charles Blow subliminal graphic with the blue light over Trump to suggest a KKK hood is over the top.
1
Thomas,
I am your biggest fan, but I have to say you have overshot it here.
The evangelicals turn to Trump because they are being attacked on all sides and shut out of a system made up of snobs who apparently see them as "deplorable." So hardly a surprise they are gravitating to an outsider.
They see nothing wrong with a pastor refusing to oversee a same sex marraige. And why should they? It's their right to have this view. Remember, the 1st Amendment applies to all sides, not just the correct ones.
Lastly, people are angry about the plane being "hijacked" because nearly none of the economic growth in the last 30 years has gone to the lower or middle classes. They've been stiffed by elites, and HRC is a walking personification of this. Can you say Wall Street patrons?
Angry? Definitely! Vote for HRC? Pretty tough when she looks down her nose at you and is an affront to what you believe in.
So please, just a little sympathy for our evangelical friends.
I am your biggest fan, but I have to say you have overshot it here.
The evangelicals turn to Trump because they are being attacked on all sides and shut out of a system made up of snobs who apparently see them as "deplorable." So hardly a surprise they are gravitating to an outsider.
They see nothing wrong with a pastor refusing to oversee a same sex marraige. And why should they? It's their right to have this view. Remember, the 1st Amendment applies to all sides, not just the correct ones.
Lastly, people are angry about the plane being "hijacked" because nearly none of the economic growth in the last 30 years has gone to the lower or middle classes. They've been stiffed by elites, and HRC is a walking personification of this. Can you say Wall Street patrons?
Angry? Definitely! Vote for HRC? Pretty tough when she looks down her nose at you and is an affront to what you believe in.
So please, just a little sympathy for our evangelical friends.
2
Excuse me: did you just uncritically repeat the claim that Democratic control of the White House is comparable to the terrorist attacks of 9/11?
3
So...
Christian Sharia Law - good
Islamic Sharia Law - bad
Good luck, Gary Bauer, et al. Maybe your new pilot will fly you back to the white, masculine, homophobic, conformist 1950's.
And will someone please file animal cruelty charges against James Dobson?
Christian Sharia Law - good
Islamic Sharia Law - bad
Good luck, Gary Bauer, et al. Maybe your new pilot will fly you back to the white, masculine, homophobic, conformist 1950's.
And will someone please file animal cruelty charges against James Dobson?
8
The Evangelicals and the "religious (or really pseudo religious) right say "put Jesus back in Christmas... i say put Jesus back in Christian!!
7
Rev Rbt Jeffress' desire for the "meanest, toughest, son" is totally consistent with the Christian religious teachings........... of the Old Testament. Lets go smite our enemies!
2
Hillary Clinton’s core support is among black evangelicals in Southern states. A Pew Research Center survey showed 62 percent of black Protestants favor Clinton while 36 percent favored Bernie Sanders. Without them, Hillary would not have swept the South during the Democratic primaries, and Donald Trump would be running against Bernie Sanders.
A Pew Research Center survey showed that 44 percent of Republican view Trump as “very or somewhat religious” while 47 percent viewed him as “not too” or “not at all religious.” The poll showed 65 percent of Democrats viewed Clinton as “very or somewhat religious” while 27 percent viewed her as “not too or not at all religious.”
http://www.pewforum.org/2016/01/27/religion-and-the-2016-presidential-ca...
A Pew Research Center survey showed that 44 percent of Republican view Trump as “very or somewhat religious” while 47 percent viewed him as “not too” or “not at all religious.” The poll showed 65 percent of Democrats viewed Clinton as “very or somewhat religious” while 27 percent viewed her as “not too or not at all religious.”
http://www.pewforum.org/2016/01/27/religion-and-the-2016-presidential-ca...
2
I would not want to be Siggy the dog.
6
In substance, nothing new here-just a reworking of the half truths I've heard for the last 40 years.
1
because Jesus always spoke English only, right?
Oh, wait, Jesus would be barred from emigrating to the U.S. and The Wall would keep Him out, and He would be deported after being castigated as a criminal and a rapist by President Trump and his "godly" supporters.
Good thing we have freedom of religion in this country, which won't last long after the ban on Muslims is approved by the Congressional Inquisition
Oh, wait, Jesus would be barred from emigrating to the U.S. and The Wall would keep Him out, and He would be deported after being castigated as a criminal and a rapist by President Trump and his "godly" supporters.
Good thing we have freedom of religion in this country, which won't last long after the ban on Muslims is approved by the Congressional Inquisition
6
Trump is angry over Ford moving the rest of it's small car manufacture to Mexico.
Can Clinton learn something from him?
Can Clinton learn something from him?
2
So very interesting. I was struck by Robert Jeffress's comment on Jesus' teaching: "pastors like the Rev. Robert Jeffress in Dallas, who has said that if offered a candidate modeled on Jesus:
I would run from that candidate as far as possible, because the Sermon on the Mount was not given as a governing principle for this nation."
Really? So tell me, Mr. Jeffress: because you're so dismissive of your "Lord", what or who, exactly, do you worship and follow? Obviously not Jesus.
Allow me to do a little Biblical exegesis: In Matt. 25, Jesus presents a parable describing the separation of the sheep from the goats. The goats, who were banished from presence of king, were those who did not care for the hungry, the prisoner, the foreigner, the naked. Time after time, Jesus spoke of caring for the poor. He had nothing to say about homosexuality or abortion.
Now, we have a "religious" group that chooses to ignore the words of Jesus, and at their own peril, whether in the here and now, or in some afterlife, according to their own belief systems. Jesus' term for their equivalents of his time was "whited sepulchres". And they've formed an unholy alliance with a candidate who stands for nothing but self-aggrandizement and cupidity (it's a cardinal sin, by the way).
The evangelicals would do better to study the teachings of their teacher, rather than being so concerned about issues that do nothing to promote the well-being of this earth and the people who inhabit it, themselves included.
I would run from that candidate as far as possible, because the Sermon on the Mount was not given as a governing principle for this nation."
Really? So tell me, Mr. Jeffress: because you're so dismissive of your "Lord", what or who, exactly, do you worship and follow? Obviously not Jesus.
Allow me to do a little Biblical exegesis: In Matt. 25, Jesus presents a parable describing the separation of the sheep from the goats. The goats, who were banished from presence of king, were those who did not care for the hungry, the prisoner, the foreigner, the naked. Time after time, Jesus spoke of caring for the poor. He had nothing to say about homosexuality or abortion.
Now, we have a "religious" group that chooses to ignore the words of Jesus, and at their own peril, whether in the here and now, or in some afterlife, according to their own belief systems. Jesus' term for their equivalents of his time was "whited sepulchres". And they've formed an unholy alliance with a candidate who stands for nothing but self-aggrandizement and cupidity (it's a cardinal sin, by the way).
The evangelicals would do better to study the teachings of their teacher, rather than being so concerned about issues that do nothing to promote the well-being of this earth and the people who inhabit it, themselves included.
6
What drove me from WASP Christianity 50+ years ago was hypocrisy. I'm not surprised there's been no change, especially since evangelicals in particular today are hyper-politicized.
8
Evangelicals supporting Donald Trump is like the followers of John the Baptist supporting Herod, very strange, though Edsall makes a good argument here. It never was about religion, or morality; it was always about power. As for going back to the 50's, ask blacks if the want to return to Jim Crow, Latinos back to the fields of Salinas, women back to the kitchen. Evangelicals better listen to Jesus on this one.
75
The Christian Right's concept of "leadership" is that of physical abuse? You don't even have to make the analogy of "dog-eat-dog" worldview: Dobson's example of child-rearing is literally dog-eat-dog, whole-hearted physical abuse.
8
It looks like the so-called Evangelicals have created yet another version of Christianity to suit themselves, in support of their private agendas.
I feel sorry for traditional evangelical Christians, who know that what is being said in their name is neither just or right, and that it is being proclaimed by hard-hearted people who have hijacked their identity.
It is now time for those Christians to find their common voice and speak out.
I feel sorry for traditional evangelical Christians, who know that what is being said in their name is neither just or right, and that it is being proclaimed by hard-hearted people who have hijacked their identity.
It is now time for those Christians to find their common voice and speak out.
5
No group of people distorts the central message of the Bible more than those who characterize it as the "literal" word of God. Most mainstream Christian denominations and virtually all biblical scholars repudiate biblical literalism. That the literalists are so unaware of their outlier status is a testimony to their collective ignorance. So too is their collective support of Donald Trump.
11
There is a reason why religion is in decline. One only has to look and listen to the most ardent followers to understand why.
14
So the religious right is nothing more that a bunch of hypocrites who will sell out their principals in a minute. Gee, why am I not more surprised?
15
The white evangelical Christians have never been remotely observant of the practices set down by their Savior in their Bible. Their "Family Values" have nothing to do with the compassion for the poor and less fortunate that Jesus was reported preaching in the Sermon on the Mount. Their "values" start and end with a small collection of Bronze Age and Iron Age sex taboos. Meanwhile, they ignore their Bible's injunction, "It is harder for a camel to pass through the head of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter Heaven." Instead, they have invented "Prosperity Christianity," a wonderful oxymoron, where their followers are promised that God will shower wealth on them if they are sufficiently pious. The are saying you can have the Crown of Thorns AND the Thirty Pieces of Silver.
Mahatma Ghandi summed up America's faux Christian culture:
"I like your Christ. I don't like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."
Fundamentalists of ANY stripe, be they Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, or even secular fundamentalist political figures all have in common that they believe in following a literal translation of their holy book (like Scalia's "strict construction" of the Constitution, and, where areas are ambiguous, they should interpret them using what they believe was the "Original Intent" of the people who wrote them.
"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says: He is always convinced that it says what he means."
- George Bernard Shaw
Mahatma Ghandi summed up America's faux Christian culture:
"I like your Christ. I don't like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."
Fundamentalists of ANY stripe, be they Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, or even secular fundamentalist political figures all have in common that they believe in following a literal translation of their holy book (like Scalia's "strict construction" of the Constitution, and, where areas are ambiguous, they should interpret them using what they believe was the "Original Intent" of the people who wrote them.
"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says: He is always convinced that it says what he means."
- George Bernard Shaw
9
But there is certainly nothing deplorable in their thinking.
1
I left the "Christian" church because I could not take the hypocrisy of the leaders or the followers.
7
the dumb part of this is that people believe that Trump will do what he says. He's a con man
9
Mr. Dobson just revealed that he beat his little 12-lb dog Siggie. I certainly hope that the local animal rescue organization removes that poor animal from his home.
10
These good evangelicals would be wise to read the Bible they say they follow. In 1 Corinthians 15:33, Holy Scripture says -- Be not deceived: evil companions corrupt good character.
If the plane is crashing, putting someone in the cockpit who has a great plane! a big plane! but doesn't know how to fly won't solve the problem.
If the plane is crashing, putting someone in the cockpit who has a great plane! a big plane! but doesn't know how to fly won't solve the problem.
9
Remember America in the 1950s? Polio; Jim Crow laws; religion that came in just two flavors (Catholic or Protestant); the constant threat of nuclear destruction by the Soviets?
(Sigh) What an idyllic life!
(Sigh) What an idyllic life!
16
It is no surprise to me that White evangelicals find Trump attractive.
5
Is there any wonder why white "Christian" men who believe in the exclusivity of their religion (John 14:6); would hear in the words, "Make America Great Again," the meaning, "White Men To The Front - All Others To The Back of The Bus."
And, of course, the Dobson concept that a 200 pound man beating a 2 pound dog into submission constitutes "strength" is a lunacy for another time.
And, of course, the Dobson concept that a 200 pound man beating a 2 pound dog into submission constitutes "strength" is a lunacy for another time.
10
Funny how the fortunes of Trump and these phony Christians seems to improve when the Rapture is always at our front door.
3
We can count our lucky stars that we live in the US and not Saudi Arabia where we would not be able to have this discussion. There is only one religion permitted there which is Islam and you can only visit if you are of this religious persuasion.
In our country we have the right to practice a particular religion or none at all. There are people who do not like Christianity or the followers but at least we can go to Church if we please. Thank heavens for that.
In our country we have the right to practice a particular religion or none at all. There are people who do not like Christianity or the followers but at least we can go to Church if we please. Thank heavens for that.
1
The logical conclusion of that tragic aberration, a Trump (petulant child) presidency, could well lead us all to oblivion via a nuclear World War 3...
4
To quote Hillary, the Evangelicals and Trump supporters with the views shown by these polls are "deplorables." More evidence that a "gaffe" by a political figure is a statement that is true.
6
It should be obvious why the Trump supporters and evangelicals pine for the '50s. That was an era where Black people were segregated and subject to Jim Crow laws, men were the dominant heads of households and businesses, women were told that their place was in the home, cooking, cleaning, and breeding, It was in 1954 that the Catholic Knights of Columbus lobbied Ike into adding the words "under God" into the Pledge of Allegiance, changing it from a pledge of allegiance to our flag into a pledge to their god, and, only under his authority, a subsidiary pledge to the flag. The McCarthy witch-hunts were in full bloom. Christianity (particularly Protestantism - Catholics were still a distrusted minority - the KKK was originally formed to rid the country of Catholics, before it branched out to include African-Americans), white Western European male dominance, and anti-Communism hysteria were the markers of the decade.
Yup, Hillary's "basket of deplorables" may even be larger than half of Trump's support.
Yup, Hillary's "basket of deplorables" may even be larger than half of Trump's support.
8
If God loves Donald Trump then he must hate the rest of us by inflicting him on the human race. God if there is such a thing please send us locusts instead.
10
Yes, fear and loathing are what motivates Trump's supporters, religious and not, and what constitutes the underpinnings of his "platform," such as it is. No surprise there.
5
Although I have worshiped in a mainline denomination for over 20 years (now PresbyterianUSA) I still felt that the word Evangelical applied to me up until this year. I felt strongly that I should support Obama for many reasons but also took him at his word when he said he was a Christian. Now I shed the label Evangelical because of the ideas advanced in this article which I have been aware of. Racial segregation, speaking only English, a "strong, male" leadership are concepts which are anathema to me.
69
I have several Republican friends who are extremely religious, yet they somehow feel comfortable in their racism and hatred of Muslims, citing passages inciting violence in the Koran, while ignoring the violence of the Bible. They hate government and regulations, unless it is to control what goes on in other houses of worship, bedrooms, bathrooms, doctor's offices, textbooks and classrooms, all the while insisting on tax-exempt status.
Some of these friends attend mega-churches, but I never hear them talk of their charitable work, or of doing God's work on Earth, in poor communities. They are convinced that they are going to Heaven and the rest of us are out of luck, unless we subscribe to their brand of God.
I have two other dear friends who are also very religious, but theirs is a quieter form of belief, seen more in action than bombast. They feel no need to convert anyone to their theology, but show their Christianity by example. One took her family on a mission to Africa to work with babies in an orphanage. The other told me recently she couldn't join me on vacation because her next trip was a mission to Haiti. Both accept that everyone is not like them, and appreciate the differences. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and "Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me" apply to their daily lives. I see Jesus all around these women.
For my other two friends, I'd say Jesus has left the building.
Some of these friends attend mega-churches, but I never hear them talk of their charitable work, or of doing God's work on Earth, in poor communities. They are convinced that they are going to Heaven and the rest of us are out of luck, unless we subscribe to their brand of God.
I have two other dear friends who are also very religious, but theirs is a quieter form of belief, seen more in action than bombast. They feel no need to convert anyone to their theology, but show their Christianity by example. One took her family on a mission to Africa to work with babies in an orphanage. The other told me recently she couldn't join me on vacation because her next trip was a mission to Haiti. Both accept that everyone is not like them, and appreciate the differences. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and "Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me" apply to their daily lives. I see Jesus all around these women.
For my other two friends, I'd say Jesus has left the building.
11
This article is eye-opening and scary. I believe I was operating under a false assumption.
My assumption was that Trump's support from these groups was not based on religion, but on desperation. That an evangelical's support for Trump was based on their extreme frustration with government, or their own financial problems, overcame their religious objection to Trump's highly flawed character. And that, by election time, their moral compass would prevail.
This article would seem to indicate that these groups are far more desirous of a Mad Men nostalgia, and a strong-man that will return America to the 1950s. And if that is the case, then there is no moral line Mr. Trump can cross that will turn these voters against him. It explains a lot about this election, and raises some very ugly questions about our country.
My assumption was that Trump's support from these groups was not based on religion, but on desperation. That an evangelical's support for Trump was based on their extreme frustration with government, or their own financial problems, overcame their religious objection to Trump's highly flawed character. And that, by election time, their moral compass would prevail.
This article would seem to indicate that these groups are far more desirous of a Mad Men nostalgia, and a strong-man that will return America to the 1950s. And if that is the case, then there is no moral line Mr. Trump can cross that will turn these voters against him. It explains a lot about this election, and raises some very ugly questions about our country.
100
If you call yourself a Christian, go back and read the Gospels. They are short and repetitive, and there is nothing in them that supports Trump or Trump's ideas, or indeed your preachers and your Republican governments.
In fact, quite the reverse: what Trump supports is evil and hatred, and that is not what Jesus stands for.
The golden rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
The moneychangers in the temple. The whited sepulchers. The haters and the killers. No, that's not Jesus.
In fact, quite the reverse: what Trump supports is evil and hatred, and that is not what Jesus stands for.
The golden rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
The moneychangers in the temple. The whited sepulchers. The haters and the killers. No, that's not Jesus.
7
The unctuous oily Jimmy Swaggart and his like, in it for the money? There's a new TV program devoted to taking your money. It's all lies.
Give me a break!
Give me a break!
5
Blessed are the poor in spirit,
Blessed are they who mourn,
Blessed are the meek,
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness
Blessed are the merciful,
Blessed are the pure of heart,
Blessed are the peacemakers,
Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
Gospel of St. Matthew 5:3-10
Blessed are they who mourn,
Blessed are the meek,
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness
Blessed are the merciful,
Blessed are the pure of heart,
Blessed are the peacemakers,
Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
Gospel of St. Matthew 5:3-10
5
The gospels are self-contradictory, erroneous, and unclear. Just one of the easy ways that the experts can sidetrack any biblical argument. It's interesting literature, but not a "holy" document.
3
In 1991 Donald Trump wrote to State Assembly’s Committee on Cities, complaining about disabled veterans vending their wares on Fifth Avenue, home of Trump Tower in Manhattan.
A New York State law dating from 1894 “allowed disabled veterans to work as sidewalk peddlers in New York City regardless of municipal rules".
But Trump was not empathetic to these wounded warriors’ plight, at least not on Fifth Avenue. He saw them and their vending as an eyesore.
The Daily Beast published its own report on Trump’s efforts to get the veterans booted from this tony part of Manhattan, quoting Trump’s letter as reading:
“While disabled veterans should be given every opportunity to earn a living, is it fair to do so to the detriment of the city as a whole or its taxpaying citizens and businesses?”
He continued, according to The Daily Beast, “Do we allow Fifth Avenue, one of the world’s finest and most luxurious shopping districts, to be turned into an outdoor flea market, clogging and seriously downgrading the area?”
The Daily Beast said that Trump renewed his calls in a 2004 letter to Mayor Michael Bloomberg, writing, “Whether they are veterans or not, they [the vendors] should not be allowed to sell on this most important and prestigious shopping street.”
Trump called the situation with the injured veterans simply trying to make a living vending on his Fifth Avenue?
That’s right: “very deplorable.”
A New York State law dating from 1894 “allowed disabled veterans to work as sidewalk peddlers in New York City regardless of municipal rules".
But Trump was not empathetic to these wounded warriors’ plight, at least not on Fifth Avenue. He saw them and their vending as an eyesore.
The Daily Beast published its own report on Trump’s efforts to get the veterans booted from this tony part of Manhattan, quoting Trump’s letter as reading:
“While disabled veterans should be given every opportunity to earn a living, is it fair to do so to the detriment of the city as a whole or its taxpaying citizens and businesses?”
He continued, according to The Daily Beast, “Do we allow Fifth Avenue, one of the world’s finest and most luxurious shopping districts, to be turned into an outdoor flea market, clogging and seriously downgrading the area?”
The Daily Beast said that Trump renewed his calls in a 2004 letter to Mayor Michael Bloomberg, writing, “Whether they are veterans or not, they [the vendors] should not be allowed to sell on this most important and prestigious shopping street.”
Trump called the situation with the injured veterans simply trying to make a living vending on his Fifth Avenue?
That’s right: “very deplorable.”
20
they the White Right Christ Wannabes want to "Save Western Civilization" as though that is under serious threat. (sigh)
What they are not so interested in? Being Christian AKA standing up for policies and people who don't benefit them and their status quo directly. OR even worse having to sacrifice some of their own privilege or things so that less advantaged humans could get a just share of wealth and opportunity. Hubris filled selfish and mean; the Christian Right may find themselves mistaken when they have to find their treasures in heaven have been squandered on earth.
What they are not so interested in? Being Christian AKA standing up for policies and people who don't benefit them and their status quo directly. OR even worse having to sacrifice some of their own privilege or things so that less advantaged humans could get a just share of wealth and opportunity. Hubris filled selfish and mean; the Christian Right may find themselves mistaken when they have to find their treasures in heaven have been squandered on earth.
7
Glad to know not every Hoosier is a crackpot regressive. I used to live there, and it's noting like it was 35 years ago. Used to be a real forward-looking, American place.
1
To address these Trump supporters in language they purport to understand.
Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.
For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind: it hath no stalk: the bud shall yield no meal: if so be it yield, the strangers shall swallow it up.
To him, no profit is without honor.
Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.
For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind: it hath no stalk: the bud shall yield no meal: if so be it yield, the strangers shall swallow it up.
To him, no profit is without honor.
5
I always thought most Christian religions were founded by the teachings of Jesus Christ. Wow was I way off. There is no way any of these religious right people have read Christ's teachings. I always refer to them as the religious wrong, not the religious right. I think perhaps they overlooked the fact that Trump appears to be the devil incarnate.
10
It should be noted that people defined by the political term "white religious conservatives" or "white evangelical protestants" have more in common with the Imperial Religion of Rome than the Middle-Eastern man named Jesus they claim to follow. As Balmer makes clear, the teachings of Jesus within this group take a back seat to the fears stoked by ultra-nationalists and demagogues. And where there is fear, there is no love. To use the image of a "hijacked plane" (especially flight 93) to provoke further religious fear is theological malpractice of the highest degree and pushes Bauer (and Rev. Jeffreess) outside the bounds of Christianity - which is based upon a whole different kind of power...a power made perfect in weakness. But unfortunately, there is an entire branch of American Christianity that knows not that Gospel.
5
There's no doubt in my mind that were it 2,016 years ago, Trump supporters would be the ones shouting for the crucifixion of Christ.
19
The whole premise and direction of the opinion turn my stomach. Find a gaggle of haters of Trump, build a straw man to throw brickbats at, use innuendo and character assassination freely as the subject is tarred and feathered with a pseudo credibility. Can you shameless propagandists sink any lower?
2
Only as low as we must "sink" in order to address the outrageous things Trump says and does. The only way to see him, and know him, is to get down on that level and look him straight in the eye. HE seems to have changed the rules of the game, in his slide to the bottom.
3
"This country is the equivalent of that hijacked plane right now. We’re headed to a disaster, unless we can get control of the cockpit again."
Do the religious right spokespeople who say stuff like this realize that the brave man who led the effort to regain control of the cockpit and said "Let's roll" was gay? Their own metaphor only illuminates their hypocrisy!
Do the religious right spokespeople who say stuff like this realize that the brave man who led the effort to regain control of the cockpit and said "Let's roll" was gay? Their own metaphor only illuminates their hypocrisy!
6
For the past week, Trump has been closing his rallies with the line "We will be one Nation, under one God, saluting one American flag." I haven't seen much attention given to this line, but the "under one God" should be raising red flags. Which 'God" would be the "one God", given the multitudes of religions in the country? What about religions like Hinduism with multiple gods? What about those secular nonbelievers in the population who do not recognize any god? Trumps'e message is clearly targeting his evangelical Christian supporter...but what about the rest of us?
14
They don't believe in the separation of church and state, and don't understand the connection between their desire for Church law as the law of the land here and those who want Sharia law to be the law of the land in majority Muslim countries. Moderate believers and nonbelievers who believe in secular law that does not infringe on privately held religious beliefs and practices for everyone all have something to fear from these good people.
2
Seeking "logic" among "white religious conservatives" is akin to looking for a virgin at an orgy: You'll never find it, because it doesn't exist.
Bauer wants to "save Western civilization" by electing a psychopathic fraud who can't run a business without bankrupting it (multiple times). Serial adultery aside, Trump doesn't pay his workers and he heaps praise upon Putin and Kim Jong Un. The man will get a lot of people killed. But hey, as long as they're brown, or effeminate, or non-Christians, it's okay, right? Jesus would totally be cool with that, right?
The hypocrisy among these people is staggering.
Bauer wants to "save Western civilization" by electing a psychopathic fraud who can't run a business without bankrupting it (multiple times). Serial adultery aside, Trump doesn't pay his workers and he heaps praise upon Putin and Kim Jong Un. The man will get a lot of people killed. But hey, as long as they're brown, or effeminate, or non-Christians, it's okay, right? Jesus would totally be cool with that, right?
The hypocrisy among these people is staggering.
11
Most Americans, especially evangelicals, have thin beliefs in the reality of a transcendent God. To make up for that, they worship the equivalent of the "golden calf": feelings of in-group solidarity, suspicion and fear of minorities, such as Latinos, Muslims, Jews, and blacks. The line between religion and politics has blurred.
Donald Trump shares some of the features of evangelical preachers, such as Oral Roberts, Billy Graham, Aimee Semple McPherson. Listening and watching him, evangelicals feel reassured.
Donald Trump shares some of the features of evangelical preachers, such as Oral Roberts, Billy Graham, Aimee Semple McPherson. Listening and watching him, evangelicals feel reassured.
3
But Trump has broken many of the 10 commandments. He is not in favor of anything unless it's expedient. He doesn't seem to believe in telling the truth. And religious liberty, whether the evangelicals like it or not, does exist in America, far more than it does in other countries. I guess evangelical Christians, like the GOP, are living in a separate universe.
3
An example for the Christian right to follow: Jesus. Was he weak? Yep. He advocated non-violence--turn the other cheek. He hung out with "losers" in society. Most of those that supported him, then deserted him in his highest time of need. The powers of the time even tortured him to death as his body hung from a tree. Yet whose example still cries out us and has garnered billions of followers 2000 years later, whether they call themselves Christians or not? I think His message has stood the test of time.
5
This just proves that most of the religious right are not Christians in any sense of the term. They are as much militaristic "believers" as are the extremist Islamists. They are extreme anti-science, favor war, want exclusion of all except their common "tribe" and desire retribution against any that disagree with them.
In short they look more like terrorists than followers of Christ
In short they look more like terrorists than followers of Christ
19
Wow. This is the best explanation of the evangelical's support for Trump that I've read. We can see more clearly in this column who's coming to rule us and what avenging army Trump's provoking.
5
These people are just a bunch of hypocrites. They use the Bible to justify their own interests. We are in a fight for the soul of our country, and these people want to take us backward into someplace that was never good unless you were a white male. I just returned from Europe. They are moving forward while we are standing still.
9
This kind of column inevitably leads the "I'm better than thou" kind of stuff, as we can see here in the comments of all those who claim superior morality because, unlike the "white evangelical Protestants" the writer chose to dis, they're not bigots or racists because they "know" what Jesus was "really" all about. It's like "harumph! These people ain't good Christians like we are!" and "they" don't know the "true" meaning of Christ's message - "harumph!" Even those of completely different religions come in to do some evangelizing of their own and implore Christians to abandon their wicked ways and come over to their "one true" superstitious belief system: even Moslems are superior in morality to -"yuk!" - "those people!"
But this is just another reason why we need separation of church and state. Nothing can be settled between religious people, each one of whom believes their own superstition is the "one true way," and everyone else's "one true way" offends them, leading to endless bickering and solving nothing - and the sooner we get religion out of the public square altogether, the better off we'll all be. Start by taking the words "under God" out of the pledge, as it originally was, and changing the national motto back to "e pluribus unum," so the country can once again be guided by reason and rationality instead of all this superstitious ignorance.
But this is just another reason why we need separation of church and state. Nothing can be settled between religious people, each one of whom believes their own superstition is the "one true way," and everyone else's "one true way" offends them, leading to endless bickering and solving nothing - and the sooner we get religion out of the public square altogether, the better off we'll all be. Start by taking the words "under God" out of the pledge, as it originally was, and changing the national motto back to "e pluribus unum," so the country can once again be guided by reason and rationality instead of all this superstitious ignorance.
4
Tax exemptions for religious organizations is unconstitutional. The First Amendment says that we shall make no laws regarding establishment of religion, and tax exemption certainly establishes religion at the expense of everyone else. Tax exemption for churches and religious institutions should be ended at once.
To see what else is needed watch Comedy Party Platform on YouTube (2 min 9 sec). Invite me to speak, make America greater. Thanks. [email protected]
To see what else is needed watch Comedy Party Platform on YouTube (2 min 9 sec). Invite me to speak, make America greater. Thanks. [email protected]
6
Of course the 1950's seems like a golden age compared to now: most of these people were childeren then. (With thanks to John Oliver)
4
Public Religion Research Institute is a white supremacist organization. Their support of a serial monogamist, a racist, a xenophobe should not be a surprise. It is a norm among a cult that claims a Christian label, but is actually a heresy....but Christians don't say that anymore. The mantle of Christianity is soiled by their existence. Why do they support Trump? Well they are compromised.
4
I don't expect a government to act like a church. But, I do expect men who proclaim to be a Christians to act like it. No one is perfect. But any pastor who is openly (or even privately) supporting Trump should really revisit Romans 2:21-24 and what it says about blatant hypocrisy. "It is because of you that the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles."
7
"To a power-hungry tyrant of any age, appeasement only inflames his or her lust for more power." Isn't that exactly what the religious right is doing with Trump, appeasing him? Only once he's in office will they realize the grave mistake they have made.
5
I wish the survey had included the percentage of white evangelicals who own guns. My guess is it would have been stunningly high.
As our current, far-more-Christian than any of these self-proclaimed followers of Christ President once wisely noted, when people are afraid, they cling to their guns and their religion.
Well, now those fear-filled people have not only their literal guns to keep them safe but, in the bombastic, bullying Mr. Trump, their metaphorical gun.
As our current, far-more-Christian than any of these self-proclaimed followers of Christ President once wisely noted, when people are afraid, they cling to their guns and their religion.
Well, now those fear-filled people have not only their literal guns to keep them safe but, in the bombastic, bullying Mr. Trump, their metaphorical gun.
14
Comparisons of a presidential election in the united states to a terrorist attack against our country that killed thousands are at best tone-deaf and much closer to being repellent and disgusting.
This is why people are fleeing the churches in droves, because of this type of overblown hyperbole.
This is why people are fleeing the churches in droves, because of this type of overblown hyperbole.
2
What do Trump and his evangelical supporters have in common? Hypocrisy, for one thing, and also racism. Although with Trump, I'm not sure if he's a genuine racist or just plays one on reality TV. But that's immaterial, because he certainly encourages the genuine racists to crawl back out from under their rocks.
9
Adoration of a strong man who leads the weak -- what white conservative evangelicals apparently feel toward Trump -- is one of the central tenants of fascism.
11
Evangelical support of Trump is only confusing if one confuses Evangelism with Christianity.
Evangelism has as much to do with Christianity as Trump does.
Evangelism has as much to do with Christianity as Trump does.
12
Succinctly, Trump's supporters constitute an unholy alliance among disparate groups whose atavistic positions are largely based on self-serving and self-fulfilling ignorance.
8
Alan Noble writes eloquently and convincingly. What a shame that his pleas will fall on deaf ears. The Christian right bemoans its loss of moral authority, blaming everybody and everything except the most obvious culprits: themselves. Pro-torture Christians are a travesty. For all their condemnation of ISIS, they offer little to no compassion to its victims, going so far as the use dehumanizing metaphors to paint Syrian refugees as "rabid dogs" and "snakes." They vote for the GOP who routinely demean the poor and bully marginalized groups. They care more about the unborn than the baby who has no access to healthcare or a living environment free from air and water pollution. And now the Christain right supports a candidate who is a living affront to the virtues of humility of truth-telling. The hypocrisy is stunning.
8
As a Christian and humanitarian, I find Trump"s agenda morally reprehensible. If elected, we will enter an era of nationalism and hatred for our fellow man. It is awful that anyone with Christian beliefs would vote for this despot, but it is also tragic that the Democrats are partially to blame for polarizing the American public. By ignoring the feelings of pro life groups and people afraid that ministers should perform gay marriages against their will, Democrats alienated moderate Christians. The only thing that will save us if Trump gets elected is a new civil rights movement where all stand together in support of minorities and relinquish xenophobic platforms like America First. Let us not be the generation of "good people who do nothing".
2
Donald Trump is about as pious as Elmer Gantry. One of the most venerable traditions of piety is humility before God. Trump has zero humility. How about the Golden Rule? Trump is perhaps the greatest violator of that tenet in the history of presidential elections.
3
Ever have a conversation with a born again or evangelical? The brainwashing is absolutely terrifying. Some of these people live check to check and still tithe to mega churches with millionaire pastors. The dumbing down of America is complete.
7
The Christian church should never have allowed itself to be co-opted by the right. But the Republicans have claimed God and Jesus as theirs and used this affiliation to sway voters.
One of the 10 Commandments is: Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain.
Too many people think that means don't curse, but I think what it really means is: Don't invoke God's name in an attempt to gain power. That is what countless demagogic leaders have done throughout history, and it's what Trump is doing now.
One of the 10 Commandments is: Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain.
Too many people think that means don't curse, but I think what it really means is: Don't invoke God's name in an attempt to gain power. That is what countless demagogic leaders have done throughout history, and it's what Trump is doing now.
6
Religion, and in particular the white evangelical persuasion, is a call to the ancient and primitive savagery of early humanity. While these people think they are the superiors forces of a good god, they are in fact the vestiges of the Crusaders, the Inquisitors and the witch burners in Salem.A torturous and murderous fake god in control of a like-minded mob is a truly dangerous malignancy.
3
This makes me want to cry...Growing up in the 50's in a small Episcopal church, I am very familiar with the religion of conservatives.
Almost all my friends and neighbors were either Baptist or Methodist. We are now just under 70 years of age. I am having a very hard time convincing these good Christian people that God is not going to turn his back on America based on the next appointed Supreme Court Justice.
Creating an image of God as a political action figure was a terrific marketing ploy for Republicans seeking converts in the South. Anyone who thinks Southern Republican ideals are based on those of Lincoln is just whistling Dixie.
Almost all my friends and neighbors were either Baptist or Methodist. We are now just under 70 years of age. I am having a very hard time convincing these good Christian people that God is not going to turn his back on America based on the next appointed Supreme Court Justice.
Creating an image of God as a political action figure was a terrific marketing ploy for Republicans seeking converts in the South. Anyone who thinks Southern Republican ideals are based on those of Lincoln is just whistling Dixie.
90
The ethos of Christian white supremacy is as faulty as religious liberty in the United States. Evangelicals and all who support Donald Trump's ersatz and horrific candidacy for our Presidency this year are not a moral majority, are not moral in any way except extremism in the name of their religion. alas, they may be the majority of voters in two months.
3
It is my understanding that the Republican party platform contains a provision that the party will seek to repeal what is known as the Johnson Amendment, a law which prohibits tax exempt organizations from engaging in political activities....If true, this is why the evangelicals will support Trump -- They want their tax exemption and they want to be able to openly support their right wing candidates. They will support anyone who will say they will get them there.
5
This is a bit like analyzing the fashion choices of career criminals. If Evangelicals want to believe in their superstition, it's fine with me, as long as they don't try to impose their magical thinking on others. They aren't open to rational argument or persuasion. So their support of Trump is no surprise. Some of them like to wear snakes and babble nonsense while in a trance.
There's more self-harm here than public threat.
There's more self-harm here than public threat.
2
I disagree -- if they vote Trump into office, that would be terrible harm to everyone in the world. They are a definite threat.
And just look at the harm they have already caused by their grip on federal and state legislators who have passed uncountable anti-woman, anti-poor, etc. laws!
And just look at the harm they have already caused by their grip on federal and state legislators who have passed uncountable anti-woman, anti-poor, etc. laws!
2
It merely proves two obvious things: (1) that so many Evangelical "Leaders" and Pundits are frauds who fail to believe their own tripe and bend themselves into pretzels with tortured logic; and (2) religious types are mostly aspirational, betraying their own self-professed values when convenient and failing to do the hard work Jesus clearly laid out in front of them.
75
I'm not so kind, Theo. I think that folks who like beating "dogs" just like beating "dogs" and find a whole lot of others who also like beating "dogs". And then they call themselves a "church".
4
Oddly, Edsall fails to mention The Reason for Trump's support by fundamentalists as well as the rationalization offered by "mainstream Republicans"; it's all about the Supreme Court, all other considerations be damned. If only (through a Trump victory), they could squeeze another Scalia or two on the bench, everything would be hunky-dory. The fundamentalists hope they could strike down Roe vs. Wade once and for all, and the GOP seeks assurance that there will be no danger to the Citizens United ruling.
65
The good news in today's political cesspool is that a candidate no longer needs to espouse the extreme (although very widespread) religious and "moral" views of the evangelistic American voter. These are not, not anymore anyway, one-issue voters. Randall Ballmer, a noted scholar on these questions, has it right, as does Robert Jones' description of those voters as "nostalgia" voters.
Fundamentalists, wherever and whenever they are found, always want to go back to some imagined "golden age" that never fully existed. In my case I yearn for a politics of issues, not identity, and not pandering to special interests be they Wall Street or our dozen or so "minority" alleged victims. Too bad, I'm just as unrealistic as the others...
Fundamentalists, wherever and whenever they are found, always want to go back to some imagined "golden age" that never fully existed. In my case I yearn for a politics of issues, not identity, and not pandering to special interests be they Wall Street or our dozen or so "minority" alleged victims. Too bad, I'm just as unrealistic as the others...
29
Well, you had me until you referred to "alleged victims". Not exactly sure who you mean there, but please let's not pretend there aren't genuine issues of race and gender discrimination in this society. If there weren't, then perhaps there would not be a need for "identity politics".
1
The failure of true separation between Church and State caused by the pernicious politicization of Christian Evangelicalism and their common cause with GOP right/extreme wing has caused political and moral decay, these past few decades. Education, relentless but non-violent debate, attentive democracy and political accountability are in order.
3
Politics and religion just don't mix. The founding fathers saw the problem over 200 hundred years ago. To me, the biggest disgrace is manipulating a community congregation as a bully pulpit for a political agenda. Section 501(c)(3) organizations are prohibited from supporting political candidates and restricted in their lobbying. In my view, religious institutions should be prohibited from lobbying entirely. If you talk politics in church, you're not a 501(c)(3) anymore. Your'e a 501(c)(4) and need to pay your taxes. Unfortunately, no one is brave enough to draw the line and start calling out the offenders. They're intentionally profiting from the grey areas between religion, speech, and political engineering.
7
Noble cited the transgressions concisely--he has my respect and admiration for that alone; but more importantly for the apparent rarity of the position he holds and "endorses". The report proves what we know--that the term "religious right" is a misnomer. There's no more God, Jesus, or religion in this political grouping's consistent backing of Republican candidates than there is in all the Republicans' systematic endeavors to block aid to needy Americans or foment war for profit, personal revenge. The Christianity so consistently cited in these positions is quite obviously that of convenience--which is sinful in that religion in and of itself. Jesus said to not kill and to turn the other cheek. How many of the "religious right" support gun-toting? It's pretty simple, actually--they need a new name. How about - conservative right. That about sums it up. Abusing the words "religious" or "Christian" in their reference is to assist in the underlying strategy to slap some kind of omnipotence and goodness on any position they support--to intimidate, in a way, those who disagree into a position opposing God. Trump is a chronic liar who lies about everything for personal gain; he's willing for others to suffer for it. Nothing is less moral, Christian, religious, ethical, or worthy of the support of good Christian people than that. Please--might we rename the "Christian Right" with no religious reference? They seem to demand it.
68
At the risk of making a totally banal comment, well said, and I couldn't agree with you more!
2
The whitish, Christ-identifying, evangelical crowd does know that their time is coming to an end and it is not surprising that Trump's promise of End Times seems so attractive. If we can't have the ball, nobody can.
This is just ordinary human thinking; no supernatural component necessary. Trump promises apocalyptic destruction of America as it was chartered, and as it has grown; secular, strong, diverse, inclusive.
They want a despot, they embrace destruction. If they can't own it, there might as well be nothing left alive.
This is just ordinary human thinking; no supernatural component necessary. Trump promises apocalyptic destruction of America as it was chartered, and as it has grown; secular, strong, diverse, inclusive.
They want a despot, they embrace destruction. If they can't own it, there might as well be nothing left alive.
8
Evangelicals supporting Trump may sound like an aberration; but there are similarities, as the mostly white cohort is discriminatory against "the other" and has been that way for eons. Reverse discrimination is a misnomer and a farce, and they know it. Evangelicals seem to be acting as true religious fanatics, dogmatic, impervious to reality and the truth. Accordingly, a professional liar (demagogue Trump) may be their natural ally. The "God loves Trump" is an insult if there were a deity worth its name...another farce for all to see.
3
Early in our history we became tribal and then it became one tribe against another with the stronger killing, looting, raping, and enslaving the weaker. As part of that development of tribes we developed religion. The tribal leaders used religion to control and manipulate the tribe. Religion then got integrated into the power structure of the tribe and it became not only I am stronger than you but my God is better than your God. Some religions are perhaps more subtle about the desire for power in the 21st century but we have never moved out of the shadow of the past. Until we do all of mankind will continue to suffer as we do in these endless struggles.
3
As an evangelical Christian myself, I have been heartbroken to see too many of my fellow Christians support Trump. The so called evangelical leaders who insisted that "character counts" during the Republican witch hunts of Bill Clinton's administration suddenly insist that this election cycle "we are electing a president, not a pastor." There have been some notable exceptions, Dr Albert Mohler stands out, but by and large others are all too willing to sell out the Gospel for political leverage. Then, they decry the old numbers showing that fewer and fewer young people are interested in organized religion, not realizing that the answer lies with their own hypocrisy.
4
It's so ironic. As an atheist, I should be for Trump, since he has no real religion (other than self-promotion), and in his lifetime he has shown no commitment to our over-indulged religious organizations beyond his recent, deceitful pandering to them for their votes.
On the other hand, Sec. Clinton has shown throughout her whole life that she is a practicing, committed Christian. The religious types should be supporting her overwhelmingly. Yet, it's reversed. Go figure.
At least this could be considered a small, good sign for me, the atheist: "religious" people are proving that they really don't believe in (or vote based on) their ridiculous superstitions and fairy tales. It is their worldly prejudices and tribalisms that actually govern their actions.
On the other hand, Sec. Clinton has shown throughout her whole life that she is a practicing, committed Christian. The religious types should be supporting her overwhelmingly. Yet, it's reversed. Go figure.
At least this could be considered a small, good sign for me, the atheist: "religious" people are proving that they really don't believe in (or vote based on) their ridiculous superstitions and fairy tales. It is their worldly prejudices and tribalisms that actually govern their actions.
162
another important reason -- not really addressed in your column -- why religious conservatives support Trump, even with all his traditionally 'sinful' and moral failings, is that most Christians see themselves as former or current sinners, and believe anyone can be forgiven, even if they continue to sin, so long as they continue to ask God for forgiveness. many who are driven to conservative Christianity are guilty about their own perceived moral failings, and seek to be spiritually resolved of it, so they see themselves in Trump. in this regard, it is not much different than when a vast majority of the public gave Bill Clinton very high favorability ratings during the Lewinsky scandal: most people thought, 'heck, i too have cheated. bill is only human, and so am I."
Mr Bauer's analogy to Flight 93 scares the heck out of me. Because let's recall what specific action the passengers of Flight 93 took: they crashed the plane.
What Mr Bauer is saying, essentially, is that it would be OK if Trump destroyed our country as we know it because it is headed in such an evil direction that the only solution is to raze it and build from scratch on the ruins. He's also willing to take down everyone else on the plane with him; and he and his fellow evangelicals believe they have a parachute (i.e., the 'rapture') whereas the rest of us don't.
(If I may engage in a moment of false equivalence, it is true that a handful of far-left loonies, such as Susan Sarandon, have suggested that a Trump presidency would be good because things would get so bad it would spark a revolution, which multimillionaire Sarandon would watch from her Manhattan penthouse or perhaps her estate in Ireland. But I don't think anyone much takes Sarandon and her ilk seriously as political thinkers, much less believe she conveys God's messages to man. There are a lot more far-right crazies than far-left crazies; it only seems like more of the latter because the latter coagulate on the NYT comment strings.)
What Mr Bauer is saying, essentially, is that it would be OK if Trump destroyed our country as we know it because it is headed in such an evil direction that the only solution is to raze it and build from scratch on the ruins. He's also willing to take down everyone else on the plane with him; and he and his fellow evangelicals believe they have a parachute (i.e., the 'rapture') whereas the rest of us don't.
(If I may engage in a moment of false equivalence, it is true that a handful of far-left loonies, such as Susan Sarandon, have suggested that a Trump presidency would be good because things would get so bad it would spark a revolution, which multimillionaire Sarandon would watch from her Manhattan penthouse or perhaps her estate in Ireland. But I don't think anyone much takes Sarandon and her ilk seriously as political thinkers, much less believe she conveys God's messages to man. There are a lot more far-right crazies than far-left crazies; it only seems like more of the latter because the latter coagulate on the NYT comment strings.)
2
"It’s time to run down the aisle and save Western civilization."
I'm confused by this analogy. Is Flight 93 itself equated with Western civilization? Because Flight 93 didn't make it. Are the Twin Towers equated with Western civilization? Because they were what the other planes hit but then that doesn't make sense because Flight 93 wasn't necessarily going there and the events on Flight 93 clearly wouldn't have impacted the Twin Towers fate. Maybe the US Capitol is Western civilization? Because that is what is usually speculated as the other target but that doesn't seem to make sense because then it would appear they are running a suicide mission to save a place they hate...unless they are trying to save the plane so that they can ensure it hits the Capitol and THAT saves Western civilization.
I know its difficult to make an analogy that really works (which is why you generally shouldn't do it), but this one only really works if you believe the plane represents all of Western civilization, everyone else in the country (or, I guess Western civilization) is a terrorist, and it is ok to risk destroying Western civilization in order to be in charge. I'm honestly not sure how the analogy continues if they get control because the plane still needs to land and it seems pretty obvious that these people don't want to go to its official destination: San Francisco. Maybe they would go back to its origin: New Jersey.
I'm confused by this analogy. Is Flight 93 itself equated with Western civilization? Because Flight 93 didn't make it. Are the Twin Towers equated with Western civilization? Because they were what the other planes hit but then that doesn't make sense because Flight 93 wasn't necessarily going there and the events on Flight 93 clearly wouldn't have impacted the Twin Towers fate. Maybe the US Capitol is Western civilization? Because that is what is usually speculated as the other target but that doesn't seem to make sense because then it would appear they are running a suicide mission to save a place they hate...unless they are trying to save the plane so that they can ensure it hits the Capitol and THAT saves Western civilization.
I know its difficult to make an analogy that really works (which is why you generally shouldn't do it), but this one only really works if you believe the plane represents all of Western civilization, everyone else in the country (or, I guess Western civilization) is a terrorist, and it is ok to risk destroying Western civilization in order to be in charge. I'm honestly not sure how the analogy continues if they get control because the plane still needs to land and it seems pretty obvious that these people don't want to go to its official destination: San Francisco. Maybe they would go back to its origin: New Jersey.
1
"Among religious groups, white evangelical Protestants stand out as the only one in which a majority, 53 percent, agree that society has become too soft and feminine."
Once again, women are the scapegoats. Ever since the Garden of Eden, men have blamed women for everything that's wrong with the world. This, despite the fact that in most societies throughout history, it's men who have been the decision makers and 'leaders,' while women were relegated to 'unimportant' tasks like raising children, promoting education, nursing and caring for the ill and neglected, advocating for a healthy environment, and striving for social justice and equality. Yep, got it. Your shortcomings are all my fault.
Some day, in the far distant future, I hope that women will be valued. But it's obviously not today.
Once again, women are the scapegoats. Ever since the Garden of Eden, men have blamed women for everything that's wrong with the world. This, despite the fact that in most societies throughout history, it's men who have been the decision makers and 'leaders,' while women were relegated to 'unimportant' tasks like raising children, promoting education, nursing and caring for the ill and neglected, advocating for a healthy environment, and striving for social justice and equality. Yep, got it. Your shortcomings are all my fault.
Some day, in the far distant future, I hope that women will be valued. But it's obviously not today.
5
I will not argue with a minister who refuses to marry a same-sex couple. It is not up to me to tell him or her how to interpret The Bible. He or she may choose to believe that Bible verses condemning sodomy extend to a prohibition on performing a religious ceremony. Okay. I know other people who feel differently and can cite Bible verses to support their point of view. I've listened to the two sides debate. In the United States, this is what freedom of religion is all about.
I will, however, argue with a baker who refuses to provide a wedding cake for a same-sex marriage. The bakery is a commercial enterprise. Baking and decorating a cake is not a religious activity. Providing a wedding cake is a commercial transaction. Refusal to engage in these transactions has consequences, just as refusal to serve African Americans had social and economic consequences 60 years ago.
So please don't tell me that refusing to engage in commercial transactions with the LGBT community is impinging on your freedom of religion. Whites used to say that about integration.
I will, however, argue with a baker who refuses to provide a wedding cake for a same-sex marriage. The bakery is a commercial enterprise. Baking and decorating a cake is not a religious activity. Providing a wedding cake is a commercial transaction. Refusal to engage in these transactions has consequences, just as refusal to serve African Americans had social and economic consequences 60 years ago.
So please don't tell me that refusing to engage in commercial transactions with the LGBT community is impinging on your freedom of religion. Whites used to say that about integration.
184
I live in one of the reddest counties in the country (Sioux County, Iowa) that is also one of the most deeply religious. Driving around the town where I live and pastor, what is remarkable is the absolute absence of political signs. With a history of 90% Republican voting, the dearth of Trump/Pence signs is especially telling. Particularly among evangelical leaders and pastors, Moore's trenchant critique of Trump, not Jeffress' endorsement, is what resonates (see also: Max Lucado, Ron Sider, et. al). Among the flock, what I see is a visceral reaction against Trump standing in tension with a strategic concern for the judicial direction of a Clinton Supreme Court. While many evangelicals may in the end find Trump the most palatable of two unfortunate options - I would not too quickly characterize such a vote as a positive endorsement. (http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2016/july/pew-most-evangelica...
When presented with a choice between a 4 year headache (a Trump presidency) or a 20 year heartache (an average SOCTUS term), most evangelicals are approaching the ballot box with a posture of lament, not celebration.
When presented with a choice between a 4 year headache (a Trump presidency) or a 20 year heartache (an average SOCTUS term), most evangelicals are approaching the ballot box with a posture of lament, not celebration.
14
What exactly is a "liberal supreme court" appointed by Hillary going to do that strikes so much fear in evangelicals?
I'm not being rhetorical--I'd really like an honest answer.
Because from my perspective, there really ARE reasons to fear a supreme court with 2 or 3 more justices in the mold of Alito or Thomas. Among other things, I believe they would allow the states to pass all sorts of voting restriction laws which would interfere with democracy itself, as well as prevent any and all efforts by the government to work out some reasonable approach to climate change, or campaign finance reform.
But what exactly is the conservative argument against Hillary Clinton appointing the next 2-3 supreme court justices?
I'm not being rhetorical--I'd really like an honest answer.
Because from my perspective, there really ARE reasons to fear a supreme court with 2 or 3 more justices in the mold of Alito or Thomas. Among other things, I believe they would allow the states to pass all sorts of voting restriction laws which would interfere with democracy itself, as well as prevent any and all efforts by the government to work out some reasonable approach to climate change, or campaign finance reform.
But what exactly is the conservative argument against Hillary Clinton appointing the next 2-3 supreme court justices?
3
We are at a 15 years heartache from Bush, be careful of what you are willing to tolerate.
1
that is only true if we can actually survive four years of a Trump presidency...do your people ever think about that?
2
There's extensive research going back at least to the 1960s on how Americans vote, and it is not flattering to the public. Votes are most often independent of facts or real world implications. How is it, for example, that since 1980 poor white Americans have voted overwhelmingly for Republicans who have done nothing but cut taxes for rich people and run up the national debt? It is hard to find a better example than that discussed here: people making the biggest noise about being Christian are supporting the candidate who seems most clearly opposed to their stated values. All analyses of voting are multivariate: there are lots of variables, mostly correlated, involved, and it is difficult to see if any one thing might be considered most important. With Christian evangelicals, I would claim that the working factor is that they are lower class: relatively uneducated, on average not very smart, blue collar needing jobs with simple instructions (and mad because those left), and dogmatic in need of simple answers to complicated questions. That describes Trump voters generally, and evangelical Christians match most of the variables. Class, not Christian values, is driving the bus.
4
This kind of information makes it perfectly clear why religious institutions should be treated like all others. They should be taxed. The beliefs they hold and offer should not have any special status, but should be debated on their merit like all human claims, via logic and evidence. When evangelicals and others so clearly demand that God obey THEIR beliefs, that God is useful to their political purposes, then it's time to realize that religion has nothing to do with it. It's ego. It's money. Ecce homo.
28
God and His representatives here on earth, the self-righteous Evangelicals, prove once again how their ignorance of Evolution and embrace of Creationism makes a sublime segue into their equally demonic mindsets which could be swayed to support such a scam man as Trump.
Really? How does anything Trump says convince Evangelicals he has their interests at heart? How in Heaven's name can they be so oblivious to the facts that show there is nothing in Trump's resume which shows him to be an empathetic, compassionate, giving soul deep within his odious exterior?
The Trump you see is the Trump you get. He is, was, and will be the same self-aggrandizing blowhard and bully he's always been. Americans who see America as already a great nation, who love President Obama, and want his policies to continue, will gathered around Hillary. In the long run, when it counts, Hillary will be crossing the finish line leaving Trump in the dust. Trumpists who think otherwise are delusional.
DD
Manhattan
Really? How does anything Trump says convince Evangelicals he has their interests at heart? How in Heaven's name can they be so oblivious to the facts that show there is nothing in Trump's resume which shows him to be an empathetic, compassionate, giving soul deep within his odious exterior?
The Trump you see is the Trump you get. He is, was, and will be the same self-aggrandizing blowhard and bully he's always been. Americans who see America as already a great nation, who love President Obama, and want his policies to continue, will gathered around Hillary. In the long run, when it counts, Hillary will be crossing the finish line leaving Trump in the dust. Trumpists who think otherwise are delusional.
DD
Manhattan
13
Unfortunately, DD, you seem to attribute characteristics to evangelicals, e.g. compassion, that really are missing. In truth, there are fewer differences between evangelicals and Trump than you seem to appreciate.
1
When I was in seminary my homiletics professor cautioned us against "trampoline preaching" - jumping on a particular biblical text so that you bounce as far away as possible from the biblical message and go "off on your own toot." Conservative Evangelicals have been listening to that kind of preaching for generations.
The conjoining of faith and fear in modern American evangelical Christianity (and some other denominations) not only prevents the mind from rational thought but all too often disempowers the people in the pews as it elevates the power of the pastor to dangerous heights. In the biblical stories, when an angel of God appears the first words uttered by the angel are most often' "Don't be afraid!" Whenever I encounter a preacher using the Bible to incite fear in order to control the congregation or incite hatred for another, I get up and walk out.
The conjoining of faith and fear in modern American evangelical Christianity (and some other denominations) not only prevents the mind from rational thought but all too often disempowers the people in the pews as it elevates the power of the pastor to dangerous heights. In the biblical stories, when an angel of God appears the first words uttered by the angel are most often' "Don't be afraid!" Whenever I encounter a preacher using the Bible to incite fear in order to control the congregation or incite hatred for another, I get up and walk out.
194
The country has become far too progressive for many and this is why many Christian conservatives are voting for Donald Trump in this upcoming election. We would love to be voting for another Republican candidate but this is the one who was chosen by the Republican people.
We hate the direction our country has taken under the Democrats and cannot fathom having four more years of further decline under Hillary Clinton. She wants to increase funding for Planned Parenthood which performs the majority of abortions in America. She also wants to admit many more Syrian refugees without the vetting process. She will continue our liberal social programs which have put our country in debt. Obamacare will continue to cost a fortune for many Americans with inferior coverage. She is all for taking from the rich and giving to those who refuse to work.
Conservatives would like America to be great again like it was in the 1950s. I agree. We are on the wrong track and need to get back on the right track. The Republicans can achieve this very important goal. We must give them a try.
We hate the direction our country has taken under the Democrats and cannot fathom having four more years of further decline under Hillary Clinton. She wants to increase funding for Planned Parenthood which performs the majority of abortions in America. She also wants to admit many more Syrian refugees without the vetting process. She will continue our liberal social programs which have put our country in debt. Obamacare will continue to cost a fortune for many Americans with inferior coverage. She is all for taking from the rich and giving to those who refuse to work.
Conservatives would like America to be great again like it was in the 1950s. I agree. We are on the wrong track and need to get back on the right track. The Republicans can achieve this very important goal. We must give them a try.
1
KMW's comment clearly illustrates why religious conservatives will always, always, always support a conservative: the usual hot-button issues, with the tired old abortion issue listed as #1. Next is of course is xenophobia, and last the tried and true "taking from the rich and giving to those who refuse to work."
The only things missing are 1. how all those pesky gay marriages are threatening traditional unions and 2. how Obama and Hillary want to come to your house and grab all your guns.
In the end, the candidate means nothing to a rigid ideology like this one.
The only things missing are 1. how all those pesky gay marriages are threatening traditional unions and 2. how Obama and Hillary want to come to your house and grab all your guns.
In the end, the candidate means nothing to a rigid ideology like this one.
2
You do realize that we have had a Republican Congress for the past six years, whose number one goal was to make President Obama fail. If the President fails, so does America.
And, George Bush and Dick Cheney have rarely been mentioned this election season. They were the architects of our misadventures in the Middle East, and it was on their watch that the Great Recession was allowed to happen. President Obama has done heroic work trying to put Humpty Dumpty together again, while dragging a ball and chain Congress behind him.
And, George Bush and Dick Cheney have rarely been mentioned this election season. They were the architects of our misadventures in the Middle East, and it was on their watch that the Great Recession was allowed to happen. President Obama has done heroic work trying to put Humpty Dumpty together again, while dragging a ball and chain Congress behind him.
You are woefully misinformed.
1. None of the Title X funding for Planned Parenthood pays for abortions. None. It goes to a vast array of health programs that support birth control, perinatal care, and general health — diabetes screening, flu vaccines, physical exams, etc. It is estimated that Planned Parenthood actually *prevents* over 500,000 unplanned pregnancies per year, and many thousands of abortions. If you want to decrease abortions, you should *increase* Planned Parenthood's funding.
2. Clinton does *not* want to admit Syrian refugees "without the vetting process." Anyone who tells you that is simply lying.
3. What has put our country in debt is a combination of things, including automation, dismantling international trade barriers, and a flattening of our tax structure sponsored by proponents of "trickle down" theories that have been proven again and again to be completely wrong. Not to mention a couple of wars that Republicans launched without funding them. By "liberal social programs" do you mean Social Security and Medicare? Both of these can be paid for by restructuring the tax system.
4. Clinton is not for "taking from the rich and giving to those who refuse to work." She is for ensuring that the 80% of (not-rich) working Americans whose income has remained flat for the past 30 ears can look forward to actually getting ahead.
It is disheartening to hear people justifying support for Trump based on complete falsehoods. But we know he lies again and again.
1. None of the Title X funding for Planned Parenthood pays for abortions. None. It goes to a vast array of health programs that support birth control, perinatal care, and general health — diabetes screening, flu vaccines, physical exams, etc. It is estimated that Planned Parenthood actually *prevents* over 500,000 unplanned pregnancies per year, and many thousands of abortions. If you want to decrease abortions, you should *increase* Planned Parenthood's funding.
2. Clinton does *not* want to admit Syrian refugees "without the vetting process." Anyone who tells you that is simply lying.
3. What has put our country in debt is a combination of things, including automation, dismantling international trade barriers, and a flattening of our tax structure sponsored by proponents of "trickle down" theories that have been proven again and again to be completely wrong. Not to mention a couple of wars that Republicans launched without funding them. By "liberal social programs" do you mean Social Security and Medicare? Both of these can be paid for by restructuring the tax system.
4. Clinton is not for "taking from the rich and giving to those who refuse to work." She is for ensuring that the 80% of (not-rich) working Americans whose income has remained flat for the past 30 ears can look forward to actually getting ahead.
It is disheartening to hear people justifying support for Trump based on complete falsehoods. But we know he lies again and again.
2
It would be interesting to read an analysis of the Trump-supporting evangelicals' theology, which, I suspect, would be closer to Calvin than to St. Augustine. I am an atheist but I know that theology matters - it is only "liberal" ignorance that shies away from theological discussion and debate. Much of the violence of radical Islam, for example, stems from specific features of Muslims theology, such as belief in predestination (which they share with Calvinists). The evangelicals' religion is nothing like historical Christianity - it is a new mutation which does not even pretend to follow some of the most fundamental precepts of its parental religion, such as the idea of atonement and sacrifice. In other words, it is a heresy. Where is the Inquisition when we need it?
9
It's plain from Trump's rantings alone, that he believes the current US President has God-like powers, but like a sissy, refuses to use them. If elected, He, Donaldus, Deo Gracias Deus, will not be so shy. The World has graciously been given fair warning to amend its ways.
That so monstrous a delusion has gone so long unremarked is - to the dispassionate observer, side-splittingly, howlingly amusing, and I can't wait to watch the movie known as 'President Trump'. In pre-production as we speak. Scheduled for release (escape?) Jan 2017.
That so monstrous a delusion has gone so long unremarked is - to the dispassionate observer, side-splittingly, howlingly amusing, and I can't wait to watch the movie known as 'President Trump'. In pre-production as we speak. Scheduled for release (escape?) Jan 2017.
11
Doesn't it seem odd to you that Evangelicals support a man who so obviously thinks God worships him?
1
"No group of Americans is more nostalgic about the 1950s than white evangelical Protestants. Seven in ten (70-29) white evangelical Protestants believe that American culture and way of life has mostly changed for the worse since the 1950s."
That's really good news since people 'experiencing the '50s' probably don't have much of a future.
That's really good news since people 'experiencing the '50s' probably don't have much of a future.
7
I'm sure they would also like the 90% tax rate on the wealthy during the Republican Eisenhower administration. Of course they loved that time. Being white, they were ENTITLED, and didn't have to compete for jobs or the best of everything else.
1
I've argued for decades that the religious right has nothing to do with religion - it's all about white resentment and it always has been. All the pious talk of governing according to Christian principles has always been code for governing in the interests of patriarchal, white Americans who are fearful of cultural pluralism, and therefore distrustful of, and hostile to, immigrants, racial and religious minorities, gay people, and strong, independent women.
Finally the irrefutable proof is here: 63 percent of the religious right are for Trump, a man who practically personifies the mortal sins of Christianity: hubris, greed, lust, envy, gluttony and anger. Trump is no more familiar with the Bible than is a tree toad. He has no compassion for his fellow humans. He does not tithe, and when he has given, he has done so to the sound of his trumpet, "as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men." Trump thinks the communion wafer, which to a true Christian is the sacred body of Christ, is a "cracker."
In a way, Trump has done us a service. He has exposed the religious right as small-minded, self-serving hypocrites, and forever ended that movement's claim to high principles.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
Finally the irrefutable proof is here: 63 percent of the religious right are for Trump, a man who practically personifies the mortal sins of Christianity: hubris, greed, lust, envy, gluttony and anger. Trump is no more familiar with the Bible than is a tree toad. He has no compassion for his fellow humans. He does not tithe, and when he has given, he has done so to the sound of his trumpet, "as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men." Trump thinks the communion wafer, which to a true Christian is the sacred body of Christ, is a "cracker."
In a way, Trump has done us a service. He has exposed the religious right as small-minded, self-serving hypocrites, and forever ended that movement's claim to high principles.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
36
Brilliantly stated. Thank you.
1
"...and the meek shall inherit the earth..."
There is no God but our God, no morality but our morality, no law but our law... This is the speech of dictators and despots from time immemorial. It demeans faith and prostitutes religion. It sells a Trump University curricula for salvation to those who demand absolutes in a world of relatives.
But the greatest shame of all is Evangelical failure to connect the dots between protecting the planet bequeathed by God, climate change and the consequences of climate change deniers and vested interests led by Trump, his party and the Koch brother and their gang of billionaire enablers.
The quickest route to self destruction for the faithful is to follow the Evangelical sign posts to the voting booths. They will lose and keep losing the rest of us--women, minorities, kids, college educated, those who care and are informed.
Yes, in the end the meek will inherit the earth. The only question is how much of the earth will be habitable thanks to Trump and his crowd.
There is no God but our God, no morality but our morality, no law but our law... This is the speech of dictators and despots from time immemorial. It demeans faith and prostitutes religion. It sells a Trump University curricula for salvation to those who demand absolutes in a world of relatives.
But the greatest shame of all is Evangelical failure to connect the dots between protecting the planet bequeathed by God, climate change and the consequences of climate change deniers and vested interests led by Trump, his party and the Koch brother and their gang of billionaire enablers.
The quickest route to self destruction for the faithful is to follow the Evangelical sign posts to the voting booths. They will lose and keep losing the rest of us--women, minorities, kids, college educated, those who care and are informed.
Yes, in the end the meek will inherit the earth. The only question is how much of the earth will be habitable thanks to Trump and his crowd.
15
In the same way that the right denies that human caused global warming exists, despite evidence that is becoming increasingly frightening, and despite the simple physics of it, the Democratic leadership and politically correct lefties (disclosure: I am a Sanders supporter and to the left of most Americans) deny that flooding a mature economy (the US) with immigrants results in Americans being put out of work, and in reduced wages (15% reduction for US high school dropouts, according to the National Academy of Sciences).
Had the US followed the advice of the Barbara Jordan commission on immigration reform under Clinton, and cut legal immigration in half, and strictly enforced immigration laws (which hasn't happened since the 1986 Reagan amnesty) Trump would probably still be nothing more than a reality star and failed businessman.
Had the US followed the advice of the Barbara Jordan commission on immigration reform under Clinton, and cut legal immigration in half, and strictly enforced immigration laws (which hasn't happened since the 1986 Reagan amnesty) Trump would probably still be nothing more than a reality star and failed businessman.
3
So how does all this play out if/when Trump is elected? How much of this evangelical philosophy is actionable legislatively? If the GOP retains control of Congress, chances improve that at least some of this new-Luddite agenda can find its way into legislation or regulation.
Ultimately, however, all paths to enactment of such a back-facing worldview depend upon the makeup of the Supreme Court, which increasingly has to ajudicate most legal challenges over cultural and religious issues. If Trump wins, he may conclude he is indebted to the evangelical movement, for which control of the Court majority for decades to come is its top priority.
Thus, the culture war that has so divided the nation, is reaching its Gettysburg.
Ultimately, however, all paths to enactment of such a back-facing worldview depend upon the makeup of the Supreme Court, which increasingly has to ajudicate most legal challenges over cultural and religious issues. If Trump wins, he may conclude he is indebted to the evangelical movement, for which control of the Court majority for decades to come is its top priority.
Thus, the culture war that has so divided the nation, is reaching its Gettysburg.
8
Or, just throw a tasty treat into Siggie's crate, and Siggie will dive right in.
14
Gary Bauer, one of America's most famous Christian Shariah Law Crusaders:
"This country is the equivalent of that hijacked plane right now. We’re headed to a disaster, unless we can get control of the cockpit again. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a Flight 93 election. This may be our last shot. It’s time to roll. It’s time to run down the aisle and save Western civilization"
Except, in true right-wing Republican fashion, it's the exact inverse of what he is saying to his radical Christian warriors.
The radical Republican right has been in the American cockpit for decades sabotaging democracy and American secularism with smaller attacks on culture issues and collapsing America's IQ with cultured stupidity and no new taxes.
Electing Donald Trump would be the radical right's equivalent of a Sept 11 attack on America by ramming the Donald Trump airplane into America's 240-year history of democratic rule, reason and tradition and replacing it with an authoritarian King of Ignorance who can rule with iron stupidity.
America's evangelicals are the the American version of Wahhabist/Salafist psychopaths who relate to reality primarily through the hellfire, fire and brimstone of a thoroughly angry and punitive 'God' promising the warm fiery comfort of The End Times.
Radical Islam hijackers - meet your good friends, radical Christian hijackers ready to ram God down the throats of the infidels and blow up buildings and nations if that's what it takes.
Praise The Destructive Lord.
"This country is the equivalent of that hijacked plane right now. We’re headed to a disaster, unless we can get control of the cockpit again. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a Flight 93 election. This may be our last shot. It’s time to roll. It’s time to run down the aisle and save Western civilization"
Except, in true right-wing Republican fashion, it's the exact inverse of what he is saying to his radical Christian warriors.
The radical Republican right has been in the American cockpit for decades sabotaging democracy and American secularism with smaller attacks on culture issues and collapsing America's IQ with cultured stupidity and no new taxes.
Electing Donald Trump would be the radical right's equivalent of a Sept 11 attack on America by ramming the Donald Trump airplane into America's 240-year history of democratic rule, reason and tradition and replacing it with an authoritarian King of Ignorance who can rule with iron stupidity.
America's evangelicals are the the American version of Wahhabist/Salafist psychopaths who relate to reality primarily through the hellfire, fire and brimstone of a thoroughly angry and punitive 'God' promising the warm fiery comfort of The End Times.
Radical Islam hijackers - meet your good friends, radical Christian hijackers ready to ram God down the throats of the infidels and blow up buildings and nations if that's what it takes.
Praise The Destructive Lord.
343
"Electing Donald Trump would be the radical right's equivalent of a Sept 11 attack on America by ramming the Donald Trump airplane into America's 240-year history of democratic rule, reason and tradition and replacing it with an authoritarian King of Ignorance who can rule with iron stupidity."
And, mic drop. There you have it rolled into one sentence.
And, mic drop. There you have it rolled into one sentence.
2
At this point the Democrats, with Hillary leading, should be unrelievedly attacking Republicans on the grounds that we have to stand for our beliefs. If she continues to pursue a course of moderation designed to appeal to so-called moderate Republicans (five or six Senators) she will appear to be just that... a moderate Republican. And she and America will lose this election.
3
Socrates, I find it highly ironic that the evangelicals, as well as other right wingers, are constantly yelping about the spectre of "Sharia law." Given that their ultimate goal is to enact exactly the type of anti-woman/anti-freedom laws that would be enforced under Sharia law. Of course, they are utterly lacking in self-awareness and can't see the similarities between themselves and those "Mooslems."
1
The congregation members of Emanuel AME Church found it within themselves to forgive Dyllann Roof, whereas Dobson beats his cat. Whither the "Christians"? Whom would Christ recognize as followers?
54
Not exactly a surprise that religious fundamentalists of any kind are the most bigoted, authoritarian and racially exclusive. This is as true of the Christian right in America today as it was of say the Catholics in Spain who supported Franco. It's the nature of the beast. If anyone has been exposed to these people the level of their intolerance, hate and ignorance is quite staggering. When it's pointed out them that their attitudes and behavior couldn't be more divorced from the Christian gospels they just don't get it.
211
"When it's pointed out them that their attitudes and behavior couldn't be more divorced from the Christian gospels they just don't get it."
Specifically, they don't *want* to have anything to do with to Jesus -- the real one, not Dobson's and Bauer's -- because he was a lousy stinking hippie and probably a communist too.
Specifically, they don't *want* to have anything to do with to Jesus -- the real one, not Dobson's and Bauer's -- because he was a lousy stinking hippie and probably a communist too.
1
What would Christ do? Certainly not vote for Trump. I guess the Evangelicals are not real Christians.
204
Christ would call Trump a whitewashed tomb, and his followers a "generation of vipers". I follow Christ in living my fellow man. I do not follow Trump.
1
Nor was Jesus. Just a nice Jewish boy from Nazareth. Rescued from utter obscurity by Paul, one of the greatest propagandists/marketing guys of the past two millennia. No, strike that - by far the greatest. What other brand has lasted that time, and been espoused by emperors and peasants alike? Now that's market penetration!
1
I've seen several articles like this one which do a good job of pointing to correlations between Trump supporters and evangelicals in the areas of racism and authoritarians. The one thing they fail to measure is the degree of sexism and misogyny shared by these two groups. Is it because religion has always been given a free pass in this area? During the past 4 decades of backlash against reproductive freedom, attitudes towards women were barely mentioned. Now that there is a danger of women obtaining greater access to birth control and reducing the elective abortion rate to European levels, it's become impossible for the media and sociologists to ignore this aspect of the culture wars. It's only a matter of time before attitudes toward women shared by Trump and the evangelicals (and the Catholic establishment) become clearer.
171
That struck me, too. In addition to the accusation of the effeminacy of American culture in the P.R.R.I. findings, I think Hillary Clinton puts up the back of many right-wingers and evangelicals simply because she is a strong woman. Over the years they have promulgated rumours about her being a lesbian (on the assumption that if she were - and there is NO evidence she is - it would be an insult). They have mocked her pantsuits and the fact that she is not pretty (though she isn't ugly either - her looks are average).
Clinging so strongly to a macho culture and rigid sex roles suggests a fragile masculinity. A strong identity, whether sexual or cultural, does not construe difference and nonconformity as automatically threatening.
And I hope when Dobson dies, there is a judgement, and Jesus will face him with that poor little dog in his lap. What a horrible man. I didn't think my opinion of him could go any lower, and then I read this. At least humans can fight back. Dobson is evil. Period.
Clinging so strongly to a macho culture and rigid sex roles suggests a fragile masculinity. A strong identity, whether sexual or cultural, does not construe difference and nonconformity as automatically threatening.
And I hope when Dobson dies, there is a judgement, and Jesus will face him with that poor little dog in his lap. What a horrible man. I didn't think my opinion of him could go any lower, and then I read this. At least humans can fight back. Dobson is evil. Period.
159
Actually, I'd say that the "media and sociologists" have become quite proficient on ignoring all links on the connection between Trump and the religious right's attitude toward women. But then the Germans under Hitler never looked too closely at the links on the Jews and their Nazi-Death-Cult, either. The media, long ago, decided to align itself with the right's propaganda that any women still whining about not having Constitutional inclusion were just lesbian/atheist/kooks/must be ugly/can't get laid sillies. The media has never had a clue on "human rights". Maybe they'll start to 'get it' when Trump and His Deplorables start slapping laws against them, too.
8
Perhaps the 1980 presidential election was a harbinger of things to come with an authentic evangelical sitting President losing to a secular challenger . Jerry Falwell's Moral Majority backed the less religious and more secular Ronald Reagan over the self proclaimed Bible thumping Jimmy Carter whose life embodied the best of Christian family values. Did Jerry Falwell favor Reagan's far less tolerance of minorities over Carter's clear mission of racial inclusion ? I think so. That today's Religious Right is far more interested in political power than Christian values is shown clearly with the president of Liberty University , Jerry Falwell Jr. hosting a rally for Trump and loudly proclaiming him as the only one capable to restore Christian America while holding his own student body to high moral standards .
183
Actually, those "standards" are simply sexual and racial controls. The link to "moral" is only habit-of-thought, kneejerk, because they claim to be 'religious'.
2
The problem is that evangelicals and many churches order their members to be single issue voters. Our priest told us that right-to-life is "non-negotiable". We are to exclude any candidate who does not support right-to-life, and only then should we consider other issues. If this isn't telling us how to vote, I don't know what would be! (But... don't touch their tax exemption.)
185
I've seen Catholic churches with pamphlets in the front of the Church basically telling their members (constituents?) to vote for the "pro-life" (anti-woman) Republican. And they get a free pass. In California, during Shrub's reign of error, a church in Pasadena was investigated by the IRS because the pastor (I kid you not) preached an anti-war sermon. (Mind you, not an anti-Iraq war sermon - just anti-war in general.) The dichotomy is painful.
1
I suppose it doesn't hurt to mention that the mainstream religion at the center of American evangelism, Southern Baptists, broke away from the American Baptists in order to keep slave-owning southern planters from reflecting on the immorality of slavery.
It all fits together. It began as a political movement and always was a political movement. To paraphrase the old Crow chief, Plenty-coups, we use our religion like a helper who stays in the background, only bringing it forward when we want to hide behind it.
It all fits together. It began as a political movement and always was a political movement. To paraphrase the old Crow chief, Plenty-coups, we use our religion like a helper who stays in the background, only bringing it forward when we want to hide behind it.
80
Which is why claiming to know what God thinks is just about the most reliable telltale of con-artists there is.
1
So you wouldn't vote for Jesus? You wouldn't want Christ as your leader?
What kinds of Christians are these? Who would let someone who said and believed such things be your spiritual leader? If a strong man is what you want then how can you vilify the Romans who put Jesus on the cross? To them, Jesus WAS a man to fear. And, according to these people, they were right.
But fear is the overriding theme here. Fear of losing power and money and influence. Not fear of God. The problem these folks fail to see is that we all have different ideas about who we should fear. That's the slippery slope.
To paraphrase a Holocaust story- they came and got those I feared and I said nothing; when they came for me there was no one to speak. One day, in a world ruled by strongmen and fear, they will come for you.
What kinds of Christians are these? Who would let someone who said and believed such things be your spiritual leader? If a strong man is what you want then how can you vilify the Romans who put Jesus on the cross? To them, Jesus WAS a man to fear. And, according to these people, they were right.
But fear is the overriding theme here. Fear of losing power and money and influence. Not fear of God. The problem these folks fail to see is that we all have different ideas about who we should fear. That's the slippery slope.
To paraphrase a Holocaust story- they came and got those I feared and I said nothing; when they came for me there was no one to speak. One day, in a world ruled by strongmen and fear, they will come for you.
61
Well, at least I understand the phenomenon a bit more.
My friend is an evangelist. He announced on Facebook, 'after much praying and reflection,' that he is fully supporting Trump. I commented, 'you need to pray and reflect a little more.'
I don't get it. Trump's behavior is the antithesis of Christian behavior, and they're still falling for him.
My friend is an evangelist. He announced on Facebook, 'after much praying and reflection,' that he is fully supporting Trump. I commented, 'you need to pray and reflect a little more.'
I don't get it. Trump's behavior is the antithesis of Christian behavior, and they're still falling for him.
202
Right wing Republican behavior has always been the antithesis of Christian behavior. They don't fall for it, they embrace it.
1
Trump said he'd appoint Supreme Court Justices that evangelicals would approve of. All other considerations fell by the wayside.
3
Email him a copy of this article. And remind him to read the 'comments'. Let us know if you ever hear from him again.
2
Jesus wept. Again.
67
Why should any church be forced to perform irreligious, sacrilegious supposed "Marriages"..?
3
I've long supported same-sex marriage. The state's only interest in marriage is in protecting the rights of the two partners in relation to legal matters such as property ownership, inheritance, making medical decisions, and so on. To deny a gay couple the right to enter into this arrangement is to exclude them from civil protections extended to other couples.
But I absolutely agree that no church or other religious body should be compelled by the state to perform a sacrament or ceremony. It's a clear violation of the First Amendment. Such rites lie at the core of most religions.
However, when churches act as employers who issue pay checks, they're acting in the secular realm and should render unto Caesar. And it's absurd to think that commercial enterprises that exist for profit are protected by religious doctrine.
I've heard some liberals insist that the Supreme Court ruling means that churches should and can be forced to perform wedding ceremonies contrary to their doctrine. Wrong. I'm about to celebrate 20 years of lawful secular marriage. We didn't want or require any religious body to "bless" our union. Gay couples should work for reform within their religion, but if the Catholic Church, say, won't marry you, sorry: you can still get married legally, same as my husband and I did.
The state cannot dictate religious practice. But hard-right Christians think their religious liberty is infringed unless they can tell everybody else what to do. That's as bad, or worse.
But I absolutely agree that no church or other religious body should be compelled by the state to perform a sacrament or ceremony. It's a clear violation of the First Amendment. Such rites lie at the core of most religions.
However, when churches act as employers who issue pay checks, they're acting in the secular realm and should render unto Caesar. And it's absurd to think that commercial enterprises that exist for profit are protected by religious doctrine.
I've heard some liberals insist that the Supreme Court ruling means that churches should and can be forced to perform wedding ceremonies contrary to their doctrine. Wrong. I'm about to celebrate 20 years of lawful secular marriage. We didn't want or require any religious body to "bless" our union. Gay couples should work for reform within their religion, but if the Catholic Church, say, won't marry you, sorry: you can still get married legally, same as my husband and I did.
The state cannot dictate religious practice. But hard-right Christians think their religious liberty is infringed unless they can tell everybody else what to do. That's as bad, or worse.
14
Putting aside an argument regarding the morality of the marriages of which the writer vilifies, the fact is that there is no law -- nor will there be -- which forces churches to perform any marriage at all, let alone one of which it disapproves. When was the last time a Catholic priest was forced to perform a Jewish marriage ritual? Requiring public servants (e.g., a justice of the peace) to marry a gay couple is one thing; the justice of the peace must serve all citizens, including gays who pay taxes to support her salary. Same for the baker who opens his establishment to the public and profits thereby. Do we allow bakers to refuse service to, say, working women because the baker believes that it is immoral for women to work? Of course not. The writer here has adopted a totally false narrative -- falsely propagated by fear-mongering evangelicals -- which proclaims that next up is forced gay weddings in their churches. Such a lie amounts to bearing false witness against one's neighbor. But as Edsall's article points out, evangelicals these days are content not to let the bible and morality get in the way of their agenda.
16
If churches wish to be tax exempt - which means that everyone in the country covers the costs of religion through lost tax revenues - then they should uphold the constitution and not be allowed to discriminate. If churches want to pay taxes such as private clubs do, then they are free to discriminate.
1
Another cogent analysis of a very dangerous situation. From my perspective here in Arizona these attitudes drive most of our social, commercial and electoral politics. Be afraid, be very afraid. Zealots who contend that their New Testament does not apply to their relations with the weak, the foreign or to small children basically recognize no restraints at all.
62
"God loves you and HE approves this message."
Well now doesn't that just say a lot for evangelicals? Obviously they are still stuck in the old testament male dominated society where men should lead and women should follow because they are some how inferior and not strong enough to be our president.
I don't know how women can follow along with such drivel, while condemning a woman, Hillary, for having the strength to stand up to the evangelical and political powers that be. A vote for Trump is a vote for feminine slavery.
Well now doesn't that just say a lot for evangelicals? Obviously they are still stuck in the old testament male dominated society where men should lead and women should follow because they are some how inferior and not strong enough to be our president.
I don't know how women can follow along with such drivel, while condemning a woman, Hillary, for having the strength to stand up to the evangelical and political powers that be. A vote for Trump is a vote for feminine slavery.
72
USMC1954, well said sir.
Wish a lot more of your past and present fellow USMC brother in arms would think (and act) likewise
Wish a lot more of your past and present fellow USMC brother in arms would think (and act) likewise
1
We are told St Francis said "Preach the gospel at all times. If necessary use words." There is so much wrong with the Evangelical embrace of Trump, I don't know where to start. It requires a great many words.
42
What insights!
Whites believe their country is against their interests.
People are willing to voice concern about right-thinking known as political correctness.
They see vindication in one candidate versus the other.
You have made less of an argument for Trump and more of an opposition logic toward Clinton.
This is like so much WSJ calling of Liberals to be Marxist.
Opinions are like arses. Everyone has one, and some are very opportunistically driven when either choice is unattractive.
Maybe we should go out next and poll Blacks on whether the country is racist or our open border makes us xenophobic in the eyes of Hispanics.
Whites believe their country is against their interests.
People are willing to voice concern about right-thinking known as political correctness.
They see vindication in one candidate versus the other.
You have made less of an argument for Trump and more of an opposition logic toward Clinton.
This is like so much WSJ calling of Liberals to be Marxist.
Opinions are like arses. Everyone has one, and some are very opportunistically driven when either choice is unattractive.
Maybe we should go out next and poll Blacks on whether the country is racist or our open border makes us xenophobic in the eyes of Hispanics.
1
These so-called evangelical voters need only ask themselves one question - "What Would Jesus Do?" The answer to this question should be the end of the discussion.
7
i am curious does a religious minister have the right to not marry a same sex couple?
2
I think they do have the right to not marry people. I have a relative that is a pastor and he has several times refused to marry people who are not members of his church or in one case, a pregnant 14 year old. As the ability to go online and buy credentials that will allow anyone to perform a marriage ceremony grows, I think this will become less and less an issue. I see an huge increase in people getting married by a friend or family member and it is perfectly legal.
1
Of course that minister has the right to refuse a same sex couple. That same minister has the right to oppose gay marriage. But the government does not have the right to impose religious beliefs on all of our citizenry. Check the first amendment for once.
1
Of course. Why would you think otherwise?
There's a big difference between being a minister and being a baker. The former is not engaged in a commercial transaction and can invoke First Amendment privileges. The baker has no such protections. If you offer a service commercially, you cannot discriminate. Why is that so hard to understand?
There's a big difference between being a minister and being a baker. The former is not engaged in a commercial transaction and can invoke First Amendment privileges. The baker has no such protections. If you offer a service commercially, you cannot discriminate. Why is that so hard to understand?
Poor Siggie. His caretaker obviously never read the book of Mathew in his Bible.
When you are stuck in the Old Testament, rule by force is all you've got.
Such hypocrisy.
When you are stuck in the Old Testament, rule by force is all you've got.
Such hypocrisy.
33
Old Testament wisdom: "Love justice, do mercy and walk humbly before your God." Doesn't sound like all of the Old Testament is about vengeance and authoritarianism.
2
When it comes to the presidency, there can be no greater weakness than ignorance and stupidity, except possibly insanity.
29
Perhaps we can overlook ignorance, stupidity, and even insanity when the alternative is unrestrained vanity and greed.
1
Donald Trump is not vain and greedy?
1
This analysis of Trump supporters goes some distance to explain why the Church is one of the very last totally segregated institutions in America. Black worshippers still strive mightily to embrace the spirit of love thy neighbor, as evidenced after the tragic shooting in Charleston. Meanwhile white worshippers almost perfectly fit the description of nasty little lambs that have lost their way, bleating "Baa, baa, baa!"
28
As I remember it the passengers of Flight 93 did not save it. They crashed it in a field killing everyone on board.
58
Now I think you are beginning to understanding the ideological attraction of some people to Trump. We will destroy the system, the"strong ones" will survive, and we will eventually rebuild another system under President Huckabee, President Dobson, President Bundy or whichever yahoo the Alt Right is worshipping this week.
3
Why expect Christian evangelism to be any better than Islamic or Judaic evangelism? I care not whether, like all opiate addicts, they know they are right and everyone else is wrong. I do care that they want to beat me into fealty to their false idols.
51
The "religious right" wants to weaken the separation of church and state. The "religious right" wants to engage in politics without the IRS interfering. Trump may support this--who knows, since he changes his story every 15 minutes. Hillary does not support this, although she is not divorced three times, is not accused of having sex with underaged girls and through the Clinton foundation, tries to help the world. The "religious right" is a sham interested in using the foolish to advance its mission of subjugating the US government.
54
It is truly amazing that voters on the Religious Right do not see these issues, but the reality is that many on the Religious Right do not see a value in education, and thus do not deal in facts. Educated individuals are often moderates or on the left. It doesn't have to be this way, but unfortunately it is this way.
34
A crucial element of conservative evangelical support for Trump stands out more and more by its absence from this column and the comments I've read: evangelicals believe in male leadership and female submission. How many conservative evangelical churches are led by female pastors? So why wouldn't that embargo on female leadership not extend to the presidency?
17
Let's hope God loves Trump as much as he loves Palin, Bachmann, Ted Cruz, Ben Carson, Allen West and Rick Santorum. They all said he wanted them to be President too.
Remember G.W. Bush?
"I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it."
What happened was 9/11, war and the Great Recession.
God is joking with the GOP. Unfortunately, the sarcasm goes right over their heads. The rest of us are not laughing.
Remember G.W. Bush?
"I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it."
What happened was 9/11, war and the Great Recession.
God is joking with the GOP. Unfortunately, the sarcasm goes right over their heads. The rest of us are not laughing.
70
There may be a special place in h*** for the Christian Right who support candidates like Trump.
29
I don't think anyone cares about what the minority of the far right thinks or wants. Credibility from Oklahoma Baptist University is not taken as a serious issue.
3
In 1790 George Washington made a promise about how America would operate in a policy statement in Newport, Rhode Island.
"For happily the Government of the United States gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support."
I am sure that the religious right feels that their "rights" are being infringed. But unfortunately their interpretation of their "rights" is to do away with the separation of church and state, one of the founding principles of the nation. Trump and his goons, hold out a promise that a core principle that has made this country great, it's secularism, would be done away with and we would return to a time (seemingly the 1940's) where being white was an implicit if not explicit protected class. Should they be able to fulfill their dreams we would be no different than Iran or Saudi Arabia, for Sharia Koranic law is no different than Christian biblical law. Israel, founded as a secular country is losing it's way as their religious right wields undue influence, imposing their views of Hebrew biblical law. And we would be no different from North Korea, where the officially imposed religion is cult worship of their bizarrely coiffed leader.
George Washington when he promised liberty and freedom from an imposed religion was accompanied by Thomas Jefferson.
"For happily the Government of the United States gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support."
I am sure that the religious right feels that their "rights" are being infringed. But unfortunately their interpretation of their "rights" is to do away with the separation of church and state, one of the founding principles of the nation. Trump and his goons, hold out a promise that a core principle that has made this country great, it's secularism, would be done away with and we would return to a time (seemingly the 1940's) where being white was an implicit if not explicit protected class. Should they be able to fulfill their dreams we would be no different than Iran or Saudi Arabia, for Sharia Koranic law is no different than Christian biblical law. Israel, founded as a secular country is losing it's way as their religious right wields undue influence, imposing their views of Hebrew biblical law. And we would be no different from North Korea, where the officially imposed religion is cult worship of their bizarrely coiffed leader.
George Washington when he promised liberty and freedom from an imposed religion was accompanied by Thomas Jefferson.
25
Devotion and worship are only small parts of the lives of the religious. Personal and community identity play a large role, as does loyalty to that identity. In Northern Ireland, a Boys' Home was found to have been a supplier of boys to pedophiles--including senior politicians and policemen. The Protestant/Unionist communities closed ranks and thwarted investigations. Among Catholic/Republican activists, widespread incest was revealed when a young woman charged her father with abuse. Again, that community closed ranks, and as far as I know, only one man has gone to prison.
9
Trump should be called the Biff Tannen of Back to the Future. He fits the imagery too perfectly.
6
The Dobson story is the scariest part of this piece. He's nuts, and he should never be in charge of any animal, much less of a child. I hope Siggy bites him.
33
Not by a long shot are all of This Man's supporters ignorant and unwilling to see the flaws in him. They do see the flaws, but they also see that their lives changed in the deep South the moment the Civil Rights Act was passed. They struggled and fought the change the best they could, but eventually were forced to see their county, city and state governments voting in black candidates. But it doesn't mean they liked it. And they didn't have to like a black president either.
They have dug in their heels at the changes that they know, deep down, they cannot stop. They are becoming desperate and desperately angry that they have to make room for people from other countries and who worship in other ways. This Man, as one person has told me, is God's gift to America. This Man was sent to save America from ruin.
You are not going to change the minds of anyone who believes that a deity approves of a man like This Man. Believe me, I've tried.
They have dug in their heels at the changes that they know, deep down, they cannot stop. They are becoming desperate and desperately angry that they have to make room for people from other countries and who worship in other ways. This Man, as one person has told me, is God's gift to America. This Man was sent to save America from ruin.
You are not going to change the minds of anyone who believes that a deity approves of a man like This Man. Believe me, I've tried.
15
The night of the Orlando massacre, Rev. Robert Jeffress, vacationing on a cruise ship, distributed a video of his reactions to the shootings. The following night, Jeffress appeared on Fox News. Both nights, he cast blame for the killings on permissive spiritual teachings by mainstream pastors of other congregations. His first instinct was to blame other pastors. He offered words of comfort to the families of slain policemen, but not one word of comfort for the hundreds of citizens of Dallas, who marched to support the idea that Black lives do matter. Those citizens were marching peacefully. After the shootings, both the police and the marchers were terrorized and needed love and support.
If Jeffress cannot find it in his heart and soul to truthfully speak to the moral challenge presented by Trump, perhaps he should give up politics for a while and concentrate on scripture - the New Testament.
If Jeffress cannot find it in his heart and soul to truthfully speak to the moral challenge presented by Trump, perhaps he should give up politics for a while and concentrate on scripture - the New Testament.
8
"For years, secular progressives have said that evangelical social action in America is not about religious conviction but all about power."
That's exactly what it is. The lust for power over women, over ethnic and religious minorities, over the Earth and everything on it. Most evangelicals wouldn't recognize Jesus if he came back to Earth; indeed, they would be the first to crucify him for his message.
That's exactly what it is. The lust for power over women, over ethnic and religious minorities, over the Earth and everything on it. Most evangelicals wouldn't recognize Jesus if he came back to Earth; indeed, they would be the first to crucify him for his message.
36
Yes, the invisible man in the sky probably loves Donald Trump, just as he loves all the lazy minds who believe in his existence. Why not? In magic, Everything is possible, and no evidence is required. (Always good to wake up to a good belly laugh in the morning!)
20
I would like immigrants to speak English. Our society has certainly become too soft. And this is indeed a Flight 93 Election where the fate of Western civilization is at stake.
Donald Trump and his narcissistic neo-Confederate Putin loving con man brand of conservatism must be resoundingly defeated!
Donald Trump and his narcissistic neo-Confederate Putin loving con man brand of conservatism must be resoundingly defeated!
7
A wonderful and insightful reflection.
I would inform Mr. Dodson that, in the world of science, that there is a quantative difference between a child, capable of absrract reason, and a dog. Mr. Dodson acted with full human will and choose to willfully abuse Siggie. Shame on him. Perhaps in his patriarchal "Christian" world view any dependent is reduced to a mere possession to be bent to the whims of the alpha male.
I would suggest that Mr. Jeffress and his ilk ponder upon the koine Greek text of Matthew 25:32 which speaks of the separation of the nations and not necessarily of individuals. If there is a final judgement based upon the text which follows then on which side will the US be placed? That of the goats or that of the sheep?
I would inform Mr. Dodson that, in the world of science, that there is a quantative difference between a child, capable of absrract reason, and a dog. Mr. Dodson acted with full human will and choose to willfully abuse Siggie. Shame on him. Perhaps in his patriarchal "Christian" world view any dependent is reduced to a mere possession to be bent to the whims of the alpha male.
I would suggest that Mr. Jeffress and his ilk ponder upon the koine Greek text of Matthew 25:32 which speaks of the separation of the nations and not necessarily of individuals. If there is a final judgement based upon the text which follows then on which side will the US be placed? That of the goats or that of the sheep?
3
What is WRONG with Americans?
Sure, Hillary Clinton isn't perfect, not by a long shot, but Donald Trump is intent on killing the Republic, to be America's Vladimir Putin, using church and state to advance a power-grabbing, money-grabbing personal agenda.
Do you vote not to take the foul-tasting medicine and instead play Russian Roulette with a gun with 5 bullets and one empty chamber?
It's sure looking like it.
And Hillary Clinton is doing EXACTLY what I predicted she would do that would lose the election and follow Bill's 1996 Pyrrhic victory: Abandon her base with liberals and progressives, abandon the down-ballot candidates, be too super-secretive, and focus on fund raising from a few wealthy donors. All of this has led to her major collapse in the polls, losing over 20 points in her odds of winning, now losing Ohio, NC, and Florida. And giving the wild lunatic, America's Mussolini, the momentum.
When will Hillary realize it's not about her--it's about the USA? Unless she turns it around, Clinton will have squandered an amazing opportunity for change and progress in this nation and have allowed fascism to destroy "the last, best hope".
Sure, Hillary Clinton isn't perfect, not by a long shot, but Donald Trump is intent on killing the Republic, to be America's Vladimir Putin, using church and state to advance a power-grabbing, money-grabbing personal agenda.
Do you vote not to take the foul-tasting medicine and instead play Russian Roulette with a gun with 5 bullets and one empty chamber?
It's sure looking like it.
And Hillary Clinton is doing EXACTLY what I predicted she would do that would lose the election and follow Bill's 1996 Pyrrhic victory: Abandon her base with liberals and progressives, abandon the down-ballot candidates, be too super-secretive, and focus on fund raising from a few wealthy donors. All of this has led to her major collapse in the polls, losing over 20 points in her odds of winning, now losing Ohio, NC, and Florida. And giving the wild lunatic, America's Mussolini, the momentum.
When will Hillary realize it's not about her--it's about the USA? Unless she turns it around, Clinton will have squandered an amazing opportunity for change and progress in this nation and have allowed fascism to destroy "the last, best hope".
10
"The religious right was never about the advancement of biblical values." Indeed. A majority of white, evangelical Christians are not "Christians" per Jesus Christ's teachings. They are partisans in search of political power through Donald Trump.
31
The God of the monotheistic religions is the most vindictive and narcissistic strongman to ever be imagined. He demands perpetual subservience from his human subjects with the threat of eternal torture for disobedience. Donald Trump is simply a pathetic embodiment of the god-image evangelical Christians already worship. Why is anyone surprised by their endorsement of this candidate?
20
Disclaimer: I despise both candidates and hope I'm among the MANY voters rejecting this horrible choice and voting for Gary Johnson however...
What Edsall and other Trump haters don't seem to get is that among Evangelical Christians (who I also despise), Clinton WILL NEVER BE ACCEPTABLE due to her position on abortion (which I support). I don't understand why you need a whole editorial to understand this, but I consistently find Edsall's middle-of-the road essays far superior to the Liberal drivel that dominates the Times' editorial page.
What Edsall and other Trump haters don't seem to get is that among Evangelical Christians (who I also despise), Clinton WILL NEVER BE ACCEPTABLE due to her position on abortion (which I support). I don't understand why you need a whole editorial to understand this, but I consistently find Edsall's middle-of-the road essays far superior to the Liberal drivel that dominates the Times' editorial page.
1
RJ: Interesting that you would cast a vote that might effectively be one for Trump, who in office would ruin the US economy and be a catastrophe for our standing and influence in the world. We all have our own voting methodologies, I guess.
To respond to your point about abortion, however, while I agree with your conclusion, you might have noted the Trump supporters' shortsightedness. Sec. Clinton has shown throughout her life that she is a practicing, committed Christian. Trump has shown that: (a) he has no religion at all, (b) until very recently he was pro-choice (and will be again, when the need for his pandering ceases), and (c) he does and will flout virtually every other essential principle of Christianity.
Christians may focus their attentions on abortion, but they are both being duped quite dramatically by Trump, and also suffer from seriously misdirected priorities.
To respond to your point about abortion, however, while I agree with your conclusion, you might have noted the Trump supporters' shortsightedness. Sec. Clinton has shown throughout her life that she is a practicing, committed Christian. Trump has shown that: (a) he has no religion at all, (b) until very recently he was pro-choice (and will be again, when the need for his pandering ceases), and (c) he does and will flout virtually every other essential principle of Christianity.
Christians may focus their attentions on abortion, but they are both being duped quite dramatically by Trump, and also suffer from seriously misdirected priorities.
1
It's not so strange. If one can believe in a big sky-daddy who will frolic with you into infinity after death, then believing that Trump is a political Savior is not a stretch at all.
8
Sarah Palin almost got within a heartbeat of the Presidency. Sarah Palin!
Many Americans, one-half or more, really don’t want a decent, honorable President who is more intelligent than they are.
President Obama, notwithstanding his recent good poll numbers, has proved that.
Trupp now stands a very good chance of proving it again.
Many Americans, one-half or more, really don’t want a decent, honorable President who is more intelligent than they are.
President Obama, notwithstanding his recent good poll numbers, has proved that.
Trupp now stands a very good chance of proving it again.
16
In the Old Testament we see that David was a very flawed man. He was both an adulterer and a murderer. Yet God chose him to do great things. If for some unknown and strange reason God wants Trump to be our next president then he will be. I am not a Trump supporter but how can we explain how Trump got this far?
1
Aaron,
In Little Red Riding Hood, the wolf eats grandma and then dresses up as her, to try to eat the little girl as well. Little girls should not go visit their grandmas and, if they do, we should expect that they might get eaten.
The support for my prediction is as cogent and useful as is the support for your prediction.
In Little Red Riding Hood, the wolf eats grandma and then dresses up as her, to try to eat the little girl as well. Little girls should not go visit their grandmas and, if they do, we should expect that they might get eaten.
The support for my prediction is as cogent and useful as is the support for your prediction.
2
Weak opponents and a fawning media.
It’s the old problem of the Book of Job, isn’t it? Let’s hope it ends as happily.
This is a very timely article as it peels back the curtain in a way that has always been 'under the sheet' if I can say that.
When you read the Randal Balmer statement there should never be a question as to why these white Christians support what they do. This is not a group following the teachings of Jesus but as Mr. Balmer states, they support secular positions. So we get acceptance of divorce & multiple marriages, Casino and lottery gambling & and wine in the grocery stores in areas of the country where these folks are concentrated.
If Trump has exposed something other than himself it is that these folks do not ask themselves what Jesus would do very often. The Jesus story is soft and feminine by their standards (maybe that explains the most-often reliance of Biblical interpretation as opposed to the Ten Commandments).
WWJD or support? Trump?
When you read the Randal Balmer statement there should never be a question as to why these white Christians support what they do. This is not a group following the teachings of Jesus but as Mr. Balmer states, they support secular positions. So we get acceptance of divorce & multiple marriages, Casino and lottery gambling & and wine in the grocery stores in areas of the country where these folks are concentrated.
If Trump has exposed something other than himself it is that these folks do not ask themselves what Jesus would do very often. The Jesus story is soft and feminine by their standards (maybe that explains the most-often reliance of Biblical interpretation as opposed to the Ten Commandments).
WWJD or support? Trump?
2
Edsall, what a lot of words written in a column.
The reason, and perhaps the only reason, the Christian right is supporting Trump is because of the Supreme Court nominee. They Definitely DO NOT want Hillary or any other Democrat to nominate a Supreme Court justice.
Two sentences and I said it all.
The reason, and perhaps the only reason, the Christian right is supporting Trump is because of the Supreme Court nominee. They Definitely DO NOT want Hillary or any other Democrat to nominate a Supreme Court justice.
Two sentences and I said it all.
4
So, our evangelical Christians feel that America has become "too soft and feminine" due to the influence of progressives.
Apparently they've forgotten about that long haired guy in the flowing robes who gave food to the hungry, healed the sick, talked about peace and love, and hung out with twelve guys in dresses.
What they like about Trump is that he believes whatever he wants with no regard for the facts. Just like them.
Apparently they've forgotten about that long haired guy in the flowing robes who gave food to the hungry, healed the sick, talked about peace and love, and hung out with twelve guys in dresses.
What they like about Trump is that he believes whatever he wants with no regard for the facts. Just like them.
30
"Society is too soft and feminine . . ."???!!!?! Who invents this this stuff? Neither society, nor life, in these United States is "soft". It is tough and arduous to make it these days. As far as being "too feminine", does it mean LGBT? Or not enough tough guys with guns on the streets? What?
A better question might be whether poll questions have become "too stupid and geared to expose the worst in our popular culture".
A better question might be whether poll questions have become "too stupid and geared to expose the worst in our popular culture".
18
As a parent, a dog owner, and a former church-goer, I am utterly nauseated to read Dobson's experience, in his own words, about his dog. One can only assume that this evil pathology filtered into his opinions on child-raising. As exemplified by many quotes in this article, the Christian Right is hardly Christian, nor right (i.e., correct) in any way. This is a collective sickness, as odious and dangerous as any other religious extremism.
47
I think Dobson was talking about child-rearing explicitly. I wonder why he shied away from actually using a 6-year-old child in his "anecdote."
The (Wollman) rink was closed in 1980 for a proposed two years of renovations at $9.1 million. Six years and $13 million later, after the problem-plagued work was still not completed by the city, Donald Trump persuaded Mayor Ed Koch in 1986 to let him complete the work in four months at $2.5 million in order to have it open by the end of the year. Koch initially objected but later agreed to Trump's proposal when Trump offered to pay for the renovations himself with the stipulation that he be allowed to run the venue and an adjacent restaurant and use the profits to recoup his costs. The rink reopened to the public on November 13, 1986, with a ribbon-cutting ceremony and press conference attended by Koch and Trump, covered by national evening broadcast television news. Total cost of renovations by Trump came in under budget at $2.25 million.
------
A search for these facts in the NYT did not reveal ANY recent report of this impressive success of Trump's even though there is plenty of talk about his failures.
When Ivana Trump, an EX-wife, complains that the NYT is not very nice to Trump, perhaps NYT needs to ask, "Are we sure we are being fair to Trump, or more importantly, to the voters who need to KNOW about him?"
Trump undeniably has warts. But the NYT has painted a picture of a man with ONLY warts and that picture is far from the reality.
------
A search for these facts in the NYT did not reveal ANY recent report of this impressive success of Trump's even though there is plenty of talk about his failures.
When Ivana Trump, an EX-wife, complains that the NYT is not very nice to Trump, perhaps NYT needs to ask, "Are we sure we are being fair to Trump, or more importantly, to the voters who need to KNOW about him?"
Trump undeniably has warts. But the NYT has painted a picture of a man with ONLY warts and that picture is far from the reality.
1
Once met a woman who goes to the gun range every day except Wednesdays and Sundays. That's when she's at church.
Nothing has made me run away from religion faster than religious people. I can honestly say that I don't think I've ever met and actual Christian. Met a lot of people who say they are.
Nothing has made me run away from religion faster than religious people. I can honestly say that I don't think I've ever met and actual Christian. Met a lot of people who say they are.
14
Myths of national decadence and rebirth of earlier, more heroic and purer times, if led by a strong leader, are standard to Fascism.
32
The contrast isn’t between the strong and the weak. It’s between the really strong (who speak softly) and the blustering Bragadocios and Tromparts who are phony through and through.
Thought experiment: If you were stranded behind your retreating company, were lost behind enemy lines, or were struggling to get out of a burning building, who would you rather be with, Donald or Hillary?
Thought experiment: If you were stranded behind your retreating company, were lost behind enemy lines, or were struggling to get out of a burning building, who would you rather be with, Donald or Hillary?
3
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." The word today, class, is "Christian Right." The self-identified Christian Right are neither "Christian" nor "right" as those words are commonly understood. Case in point: There's not a thing that Trump has ever done, as delineated so succinctly by Professor Alan Noble, that is remotely related to Christ's teachings or actions, yet he enjoys the overwhelming support of those who claim to be followers of Christ. How to explain this enormous disconnect on the part of the great majority of America's Christian Right community? Cynical hypocrisy or rank stupidity explains the majority of it. In short, if Christ were brought out from behind the poster in the movie lobby today to speak to America's assembled evangelical masses, he would certainly say unto them, "You know nothing of my work. That being the case, go vote for Trump, just don’t do it in my name."
15
I believe that one identifies as a Christian for so many reasons including identity, group acceptance, family history, uplifting feelings. But I have yet to meet a Christian who aspires to be like Christ and to live up to the almost impossible standard that you can find in the Bible. For me church is a human institution that most often involves hierarchy, ego, and customs that have little in common with religion beliefs. So this article points that out - you take common wisdom about how a Christian should behave and apply them to the working world and come up very short. One of the jobs of the minister or the priest is to translate the bible in a way that you can skip over the difficult parts that would completely contradict how we live today.
Hello A, I aspire to be like Christ and I'm pleased to meet you. I do not follow or condone Trump in any way. He is a xenophobe and hatemonger that makes me weep. I believe abortion is immoral, but I do not think it should be illegal in early stages. I don't believe in gay marriage, but I think people should be allowed to legally bind themselves to whoever they wish as long as my pastor isn't forced to officiate. The problem we have is that we have polarized our nation by ignoring the possibility of common ground. Ignore civil liberty and civil disobedience will rise (thankfully). But swing far left and you get a right wing backlash of fascism.
Sure makes one question the worth of 'religion'.
4
Nostalgic about the 1950's. The era of Jim Crow. The evangelicals believe in the "rapture." That's when God takes them to heaven and nukes the rest of us. So they look forward to the day when people who are not evangelicals all die. What would Jesus say?
10
Fascinating and scary.
This article calls to mind those reports that came out in November 2015 regarding the study that found children raised in strictly religious households were more punitive and less tolerant than their counterparts in non-religious households. Of course it also reminds us that Ted Cruz (and Jindal and Huckabee) pandered onstage to a lunatic Christian preacher, Kevin Swanson, who would like to kill all gays and lesbians in America.
It would be interesting to read close journalistic analyses of the roles played in this presidential election by: 1) the NRA. 2) anti-abortion organizations. 3) pro-Christian pro-military fund-raising groups that have profited for years by demonizing Barack Obama.
This article calls to mind those reports that came out in November 2015 regarding the study that found children raised in strictly religious households were more punitive and less tolerant than their counterparts in non-religious households. Of course it also reminds us that Ted Cruz (and Jindal and Huckabee) pandered onstage to a lunatic Christian preacher, Kevin Swanson, who would like to kill all gays and lesbians in America.
It would be interesting to read close journalistic analyses of the roles played in this presidential election by: 1) the NRA. 2) anti-abortion organizations. 3) pro-Christian pro-military fund-raising groups that have profited for years by demonizing Barack Obama.
3
The entire argument that religion is under attack is ridiculous and to the extent that the self proclaimed religious are feeling any pressure it's entirely their own fault. One's religion is their own and goes no further than guiding themselves. Once it exceeds those limits, the believer is meddling with someone else's religious freedom, period, full stop. Evangelicals are feeling heat directly proportional to the degree they are attempting to dictate the religious beliefs of others beyond themselves. BUT claiming it's their right to religious expression. It isn't and hasn't been for a long time. It's evangelicals trying to push their beliefs on others. To state it directly, It's evangelicals attacking the religious freedom of everyone not themselves. I have no patience with twaddle like this claiming victim status when it is they who are the aggressors.
15
What irony that it is these same groups who cannot identify the perversion of Islam that is spouted by ISIS as a distortion of a moderate faith.
6
Supporting Trump definitely is a triumph of faith over reason.
3
Judean campaign 32:
"Jerusalem. Have you seen Jerusalem? Why can't everyone speak Hebrew, or at least Aramaic? Jibber jabber. Jibber jabber. You want me to buy your rugs or vegetables, speak the language!
"Only I can save the day. Centurions everywhere! Pontius Pilate strutting around like he's the King. Highly overrated! I'll tell you what, folks, Pontius Pilate wasn't even born here! I have apostles working on this right now. Have we seen a long-form birth certificate from Jerusalem General?
"I know, I know that this life is just the waiting room. Wait until you see what I've done with Heaven. With public money! Golf leaf everywhere! And slots!
"Some people have complained about my close ties with Mary Magdalene. Hey, is she a babe or what? Have you seen what Pilate's married to? Sad.
"Also, the story about the water becoming wine is genuine. Just like the stories about curing the lame and raising the dead. Anyone who can do these things should be your one and only Messiah! Hey, I'm just sayin'.
"The poor will always be with us, so what's the point? It's not our fault that they're poor. Weak.
"The Lord helps those who help themselves. There's a terrific spread at the buffet. Loaves, fishes, I've spared no expense.
"Make Israel Great Again.
"Let's start with stoning adulterers and especially gay people. Oh, and people who get tattoos and those who mix meat and dairy. Am I leaving anybody out? Hey, stones are recyclable. Ha!
"I'll be here for the next four years."
"Jerusalem. Have you seen Jerusalem? Why can't everyone speak Hebrew, or at least Aramaic? Jibber jabber. Jibber jabber. You want me to buy your rugs or vegetables, speak the language!
"Only I can save the day. Centurions everywhere! Pontius Pilate strutting around like he's the King. Highly overrated! I'll tell you what, folks, Pontius Pilate wasn't even born here! I have apostles working on this right now. Have we seen a long-form birth certificate from Jerusalem General?
"I know, I know that this life is just the waiting room. Wait until you see what I've done with Heaven. With public money! Golf leaf everywhere! And slots!
"Some people have complained about my close ties with Mary Magdalene. Hey, is she a babe or what? Have you seen what Pilate's married to? Sad.
"Also, the story about the water becoming wine is genuine. Just like the stories about curing the lame and raising the dead. Anyone who can do these things should be your one and only Messiah! Hey, I'm just sayin'.
"The poor will always be with us, so what's the point? It's not our fault that they're poor. Weak.
"The Lord helps those who help themselves. There's a terrific spread at the buffet. Loaves, fishes, I've spared no expense.
"Make Israel Great Again.
"Let's start with stoning adulterers and especially gay people. Oh, and people who get tattoos and those who mix meat and dairy. Am I leaving anybody out? Hey, stones are recyclable. Ha!
"I'll be here for the next four years."
9
Trump does not live his life like a follower of Evangelical Christianity, but he hates all the right people and that's good enough to get their votes.
16
As Maurice Chevalier said, "Old age is not so bad when you consider the alternative."
The PC Democrats, applauding Mr. Obama's insane bathroom directive, have made it impossible for anyone with any traditional moral values to vote for them.
To be sure, Trump does not exactly have traditional moral values. That is exactly why Democrats should ask, "If the conservative Christians prefer HIM, what does that say about US?"
To the Christians, Trump might be "old age" but the current Democratic party is death.
The PC Democrats, applauding Mr. Obama's insane bathroom directive, have made it impossible for anyone with any traditional moral values to vote for them.
To be sure, Trump does not exactly have traditional moral values. That is exactly why Democrats should ask, "If the conservative Christians prefer HIM, what does that say about US?"
To the Christians, Trump might be "old age" but the current Democratic party is death.
3
What would really be insane is trying to enforce something like North Carolina's HB2. Will you have police at every bathroom in the state asking people to drop their trousers before using the facilities? Will they need to bring along their birth certificates as well?
Until someone can point to documented instances where trans women are accosting straight women in the ladies' room, this whole issue seems concocted out of whole cloth, much like the issue of voter fraud.
Do you really think transsexual women have not been using ladies' rooms for decades? Of course they have. So where are all the cases of assault?
The biggest problem about HB2 was that it blocked municipalities from having more liberal gender policies than the rural-dominated NC legislature preferred. And oh, by the way, HB2 also prohibits NC municipalities from instituting a higher minimum wage than what the state mandates. All the business about bathrooms was largely cover for this preemption of local control particularly the minimum wage law.
Until someone can point to documented instances where trans women are accosting straight women in the ladies' room, this whole issue seems concocted out of whole cloth, much like the issue of voter fraud.
Do you really think transsexual women have not been using ladies' rooms for decades? Of course they have. So where are all the cases of assault?
The biggest problem about HB2 was that it blocked municipalities from having more liberal gender policies than the rural-dominated NC legislature preferred. And oh, by the way, HB2 also prohibits NC municipalities from instituting a higher minimum wage than what the state mandates. All the business about bathrooms was largely cover for this preemption of local control particularly the minimum wage law.
Oh well, so much for 'family values'. I never bought into that crap anyway, even when Falwell was still around.
Trump treats everyone as a mark, as a chump. How hard can it be to make chumps out people who believe in nutty stuff like Noah's ark, Adam and Eve, etc. Lots of folks believe what they want to believe, and disregard the rest.
Maybe the real appeal is not the man, but rather is the promise of putting judges like Scalia on the Supreme Court. But then Trump has a real lousy track record of keeping promises. Just ask the victims of his multiple bankruptcies and scam university.
Trump treats everyone as a mark, as a chump. How hard can it be to make chumps out people who believe in nutty stuff like Noah's ark, Adam and Eve, etc. Lots of folks believe what they want to believe, and disregard the rest.
Maybe the real appeal is not the man, but rather is the promise of putting judges like Scalia on the Supreme Court. But then Trump has a real lousy track record of keeping promises. Just ask the victims of his multiple bankruptcies and scam university.
7
The religious rights actions are hardly pious and have never been about religion. Trump is the zenith of their foolish ideas. The only explanations for these DEPLORABLE people is stupidity, racism, sexism, xenophobia and selfishness. This is a religious philosophy that I can do without.
4
The thorough analysis I would like to see of current U.S. right and left wing politics?
I would like to see a complete, across board--mathematical, psychological, social, biological--analysis of what we mean by zero-sum game vs. cooperative nonzero-sum behavior. Overwhelmingly in the U.S. today, and certainly from the Democratic party, cooperative behavior over zero sum behavior is preferred to point of declaring zero sum behavior irrational.--In fact biologists have weighed in saying over human history it is obviously by cooperation the human race has progressed. In short we are given a picture of cooperation automatically meaning an arrow forward, upward, a mutual increase in power and wellbeing.
But this of course totally ignores the fact that cooperation also can mean a group dividing up less and less, conformity, in fact all we mean by leveling to low standard. Zero sum thinking would not have existed up to present day if cooperation was clearly positive and did not have negatives--depend in fact on situation and combination of people.
My belief is zero sum thinking today--typically by right wings, the aggressive, selfish--is correctly considered dangerous, but by no means is cooperative behavior obviously leading to all of us rising in power and strength. We can argue we are being dumbed down, each given small slice of pie, are being increasingly gripped by technology and tight watch on words, are cooperating in mediocrity by "fairness". A nasty Either/Or situation.
I would like to see a complete, across board--mathematical, psychological, social, biological--analysis of what we mean by zero-sum game vs. cooperative nonzero-sum behavior. Overwhelmingly in the U.S. today, and certainly from the Democratic party, cooperative behavior over zero sum behavior is preferred to point of declaring zero sum behavior irrational.--In fact biologists have weighed in saying over human history it is obviously by cooperation the human race has progressed. In short we are given a picture of cooperation automatically meaning an arrow forward, upward, a mutual increase in power and wellbeing.
But this of course totally ignores the fact that cooperation also can mean a group dividing up less and less, conformity, in fact all we mean by leveling to low standard. Zero sum thinking would not have existed up to present day if cooperation was clearly positive and did not have negatives--depend in fact on situation and combination of people.
My belief is zero sum thinking today--typically by right wings, the aggressive, selfish--is correctly considered dangerous, but by no means is cooperative behavior obviously leading to all of us rising in power and strength. We can argue we are being dumbed down, each given small slice of pie, are being increasingly gripped by technology and tight watch on words, are cooperating in mediocrity by "fairness". A nasty Either/Or situation.
As patriotism has often been a last refuge for scoundrels, religion has become a smokescreen for the bigotry, misogyny and xenophobia of many evangelicals. Their embrace of Trump is revelatory in its hypocrisy. Perhaps they should consider forming the Church of Hair Duce. These evangelical groups pay no taxes-as trump probably doesn't. A match made in Hades, to be sure.
11
maybe they should be called the religious wrong?
5
This op ed makes it very clear who is the enemy, it isn't Donald Trump, he's the messenger. The real problem in the United States are the people who want to destroy freedom, and liberty and it seems they are the majority. They uncover the real principals behind our country, by their definition. This isn't what I was taught in school about America, they have been under the rug until now.
5
Evangelical Christians have always been hypocrites. They define "sin" as they go along, which enables them to "forgive" whatever they want.
God may forgive them, but I don't.
God may forgive them, but I don't.
14
My evangelical Christian family support Trump. I think it says more about them and their beliefs than it does about Trump.
I don't know how these people sit in Church every week. They are like the lambs being led to slaughter.
I don't know how these people sit in Church every week. They are like the lambs being led to slaughter.
8
Isn't it clear that we are seeing here the extreme debasement of language? Aren't most of the people referred to in this article "so-called evangelicals," and not evangelicals ("evangelical" = "of or according to the teaching of the gospel or the Christian religion").
Any serious study of the history of religions and of biblical scholarship uncovers a serious and profound engagement with the world and with faith that is complex, rich in various interpretations, and rejected by these so-called evangelicals.
Some of these folk are innocently being led by charlatans whom seriously religious people might see as doing Satan's work.
Some are bigots and haters hiding in Christian clothing.
Some are simply scared about their and their children's prospects and are blindly striking out at all strangers.
So let's talk about them honestly and clearly. We are beginning to see the hollowing out of language by political manipulators and their journalistic enablers. Once we are confused about our beliefs, our values, our economy, our international relations, our military, our health, our very being, then anything is made acceptable, and advertising, persuasion (not reason), and hucksterism is all that is left.
Any serious study of the history of religions and of biblical scholarship uncovers a serious and profound engagement with the world and with faith that is complex, rich in various interpretations, and rejected by these so-called evangelicals.
Some of these folk are innocently being led by charlatans whom seriously religious people might see as doing Satan's work.
Some are bigots and haters hiding in Christian clothing.
Some are simply scared about their and their children's prospects and are blindly striking out at all strangers.
So let's talk about them honestly and clearly. We are beginning to see the hollowing out of language by political manipulators and their journalistic enablers. Once we are confused about our beliefs, our values, our economy, our international relations, our military, our health, our very being, then anything is made acceptable, and advertising, persuasion (not reason), and hucksterism is all that is left.
5
For these so called values voters and true Christians to vote for Trump seems deplorable.
3
Wow, the elite in full panic mode. The NYT Opinion today (apparently responding to Hillary's urging that the bien pensant press apend more time attacking Trump and less time watching videos of her collapsing) has a full flock of anti-Trump articles: this one implying Trump is an anti-Christian, supported only by Christian racists, Mr. Blow's article doubling down on the view that anyone who doesn't like the flood of illegal aliens is a "deplorable;" Kristof asserting Trump is a "Crackpot; and Gail Collins implying that Trump needs "redemption."
Alas, these efforts are all preching to the NYT-reading choir. The name-calling is not going to move Trump voters, except to make them more sure of their vote, and it is offending those who are on the fence, trying to decide whether to vote for unreliability and unknown policies or corruption and polices known to be at least as bad as those of the last 8 years.
Alas, these efforts are all preching to the NYT-reading choir. The name-calling is not going to move Trump voters, except to make them more sure of their vote, and it is offending those who are on the fence, trying to decide whether to vote for unreliability and unknown policies or corruption and polices known to be at least as bad as those of the last 8 years.
1
James, as a Christian, a woman, and a Hispanic (American bornj, I can tell you that Trump does not speak for me or promote a single one of my interests. It is not humanitarianism but xenophobia that makes him blame the ills of the American economy and threaten to deport American born citizen babies. It is not kindness but sexism to say that pregnancy us an inconvenience to employers and they shouldn't have to pay for it. And it is not Christian to use Hitler's "big lie" tactics to pitt one ethnic group against their fellow man. I don't believe in abortion or gay marriage, and Jesus is the only way for me. But I don't believe our faith should be imposed on others or used as justification to suppress then. Please get off the fence. 4 more years of liberalism might not be great for some, but 4 years of nationalism and hatred will destroy us all. Do not be the good person who stand by and lets this happen.
2
Dealing with people as groups instead of individuals is never accurate, but it is clear that there are at least 12 million illegals in the US, most of whom are getting welfare in one form or another, paid for by the working and middle classes, while the rich pay politicians like Hillary 250,000 for an hour speech in exchange for tax loopholes and the welfare class trades its votes for more welfare. Trump is neither xenophobic nor racist -- it is not he who thinks you are the type of person who would cling to their religion or are a deplorable.
Anchor babies are a difficult issue, but whatever Trumps view of them -- and I dont think he will try to deport them, he cannot deport them unless their is a Constitutional Amendment. Pregnancy is a choice and employers should not have to pay for it; however, the government could decide that supporting mothers and thus the next generation of citizens is a worthwhile objective. And lastly, I have seen nowhere that people want to impose their religion on anyone else. The abortion issue is fraught, since a life is being extinguished, while the birth may lead to the mothers inability to succeed in life and the baby not being raised well. There is nothing wrong with nationalism -- it has served the US well in a savage world populated by dictators and authoritarians. And there is hatred on both sides -- see the liberals support from the totalitarian left and the recent reference to a quarter of the US population being deplorable.
Anchor babies are a difficult issue, but whatever Trumps view of them -- and I dont think he will try to deport them, he cannot deport them unless their is a Constitutional Amendment. Pregnancy is a choice and employers should not have to pay for it; however, the government could decide that supporting mothers and thus the next generation of citizens is a worthwhile objective. And lastly, I have seen nowhere that people want to impose their religion on anyone else. The abortion issue is fraught, since a life is being extinguished, while the birth may lead to the mothers inability to succeed in life and the baby not being raised well. There is nothing wrong with nationalism -- it has served the US well in a savage world populated by dictators and authoritarians. And there is hatred on both sides -- see the liberals support from the totalitarian left and the recent reference to a quarter of the US population being deplorable.
Drumpf and the evangelicals are best summed up with the widely-reported quote from the head of Dallas's First Baptist Church:
" I want the meanest, toughest, son of a gun I can find "
http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/robert-jeffress-wants-a-mean-son-of-a...
making it plain to all which principles are involved in the selection process.
" I want the meanest, toughest, son of a gun I can find "
http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/robert-jeffress-wants-a-mean-son-of-a...
making it plain to all which principles are involved in the selection process.
17
Good grief. It only takes a handful of functioning neurons and a mere drop of critical thinking to recognize that the worldview espoused by the likes of the religious right is downright medieval. Dobson essentially advocates for beating children who don't unquestioningly obey their parents. George Lakoff, writing about moral politics and the application of parenting metaphors to political ideologies, calls this the "Strict Father" model—authority, strength, and upholding the moral order is paramount.
The NYT had an excellent piece about North Korea a few days ago explaining the geopolitical calculus at work. Floofy Hair and the right apparently don't think long enough to realize that a functional country will always act in accordance with its rational self-interest; the challenge of diplomacy, therefore, is to change that calculus. I suspect the "don't be weak" crowd don't realize this. Many other realizations are just a moment's thought away—but one has to think the thought in the first place.
When you live an evidence-free life, sooner or later evidence-based life is going to get the better of you—and until we discover the secret to immortality, this is the only life we get. I don't know about you, but not messing up your one and only life by refusing to live in the world as it exists sounds pretty darn important.
The NYT had an excellent piece about North Korea a few days ago explaining the geopolitical calculus at work. Floofy Hair and the right apparently don't think long enough to realize that a functional country will always act in accordance with its rational self-interest; the challenge of diplomacy, therefore, is to change that calculus. I suspect the "don't be weak" crowd don't realize this. Many other realizations are just a moment's thought away—but one has to think the thought in the first place.
When you live an evidence-free life, sooner or later evidence-based life is going to get the better of you—and until we discover the secret to immortality, this is the only life we get. I don't know about you, but not messing up your one and only life by refusing to live in the world as it exists sounds pretty darn important.
1
I am nostalgic for my childhood; but not for the political situation that prevailed during my childhood.
Are the political surveys confusing the two things?
Are the political surveys confusing the two things?
14
Trump has convinced evangelicals that, while clearly not one himself, he’s nevertheless the candidate most likely to protect the right of the insistently religious to be insistently religious, in their schools and their communities. They’d be fools to think that he would support some attempt by them to force the nation to live by their convictions; but, hey, he’s a ton better than the alternative because he wouldn’t support efforts to force the nation to live by secular convictions, either. Mrs. Clinton, on the other hand, despite professions of faith, likely would.
Trump’s worldview clearly is a live-and-let-live mantra, and that cuts ALL ways.
This isn’t rocket science, and hardly worthy of extensive analysis.
What’s more, an op-ed that so clearly marshals the arguments of the secular left against the religious right, BOTH of them interests that wish to impose a worldview on ALL Americans, isn’t likely to change a lot of minds on either side.
Trump’s worldview clearly is a live-and-let-live mantra, and that cuts ALL ways.
This isn’t rocket science, and hardly worthy of extensive analysis.
What’s more, an op-ed that so clearly marshals the arguments of the secular left against the religious right, BOTH of them interests that wish to impose a worldview on ALL Americans, isn’t likely to change a lot of minds on either side.
5
Equal protection of the law is not "imposing a secular worldview on ALL Americans". It is avoiding the Middle Easternization of America.
130
Thanks Richard. I recently did a search of the US constitution for the words "love", "friendship", "cooperation", "loyalty", and there were NO hits.
To be sure, the constitution was originally a POLITICAL document and why should it talk about love?
But we have now made the constitution into the new Bible, interpreted by nine lawyers who know neither psychology nor literature. What bathroom shall we go to? Should a wife tell her husband that she is planning to have an abortion?
"Ask the lawyers".
This is insane. A document which never mentions any of the four words I mentioned above CANNOT govern ALL our lives.
I am not a Christian or even a theist, but I fully understand why they are rebelling against secular bullying.
To be sure, the constitution was originally a POLITICAL document and why should it talk about love?
But we have now made the constitution into the new Bible, interpreted by nine lawyers who know neither psychology nor literature. What bathroom shall we go to? Should a wife tell her husband that she is planning to have an abortion?
"Ask the lawyers".
This is insane. A document which never mentions any of the four words I mentioned above CANNOT govern ALL our lives.
I am not a Christian or even a theist, but I fully understand why they are rebelling against secular bullying.
3
Arun:
Not from the perspective of the very religious, which is the whole point -- to them.
Not from the perspective of the very religious, which is the whole point -- to them.
It’s clear that “religious freedom” is nothing more than code for restricting the freedom of others, but it is surprising to see the deplorable psychology that underlies it. Animal abuse is a key indicator of a sick mind, and the example of the James Dobson beating a small dog was sickening. The strong-willed child doesn’t stand a chance.
Professor Balmer gives a cogent summary of what underlies evangelical support for Donald Trump, but I disagree that the religious right was never about the advancement of biblical values. The bible condones slavery and recommends genocide. It says that God’s love will manifest itself in eternal torture for finite crimes. It’s become cliché to say that you have to bring a fully-formed moral sense to the bible in order to find moral teachings in it.
Conservative Christians are identified by what they fear, and freedom is the thing they fear most. Sexual freedom, political freedom and, most frightening of all, the freedom of thought, makes them reach for the belt, or the sword, or the conservative levers in a voting booth.
Trump’s policies may be incoherent, but they focus on fear. He promises to build walls and smite our enemies. Torture and nuclear options are not off the table. Appeasement is for wimps. He’ll bring on the End Times.
Evangelicals consider these horrors and think to themselves, “Finally.”
Professor Balmer gives a cogent summary of what underlies evangelical support for Donald Trump, but I disagree that the religious right was never about the advancement of biblical values. The bible condones slavery and recommends genocide. It says that God’s love will manifest itself in eternal torture for finite crimes. It’s become cliché to say that you have to bring a fully-formed moral sense to the bible in order to find moral teachings in it.
Conservative Christians are identified by what they fear, and freedom is the thing they fear most. Sexual freedom, political freedom and, most frightening of all, the freedom of thought, makes them reach for the belt, or the sword, or the conservative levers in a voting booth.
Trump’s policies may be incoherent, but they focus on fear. He promises to build walls and smite our enemies. Torture and nuclear options are not off the table. Appeasement is for wimps. He’ll bring on the End Times.
Evangelicals consider these horrors and think to themselves, “Finally.”
433
"Don'r blame me, God commands that I do this" excuses the worst excesses of psychopathy.
1
gemli....I just want to compliment you on your demolition the other day of a lovely Calvinist kook by the name of Dan Salmon the other day.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/12/opinion/teaching-calvin-in-california....
An exquisite existentialist delight.
Well done, as always.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/12/opinion/teaching-calvin-in-california....
An exquisite existentialist delight.
Well done, as always.
3
Well, let's hope some of your atheist supporters are tolerant enough to hear someone say that this entry is full of lies and anti-Christian bigotry (as is the article in general).
The bible does not condone slavery or genocide, and without a doubt, slavery was ended by the Christian world view. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, in the atheist world view that would oppose slavery. Quite the opposite, as Darwinian materialism (which most atheists ascribe to,) would say nothing is more natural than stronger races dominating or even eliminating the weaker races (ref. all our atheist genocides).
The atheistic world view has no basis for morality, much less objective morality (God's will), and most atheist philosophers would argue that morality does not exist, or at best is a personal preference or cultural norm.
So never, ever listen to an atheist claiming higher moral grounds than Christians.
Christians claim God exists, therefore objective morality exists, and THEREFORE they have the right ... no ... the Obligation to point out moral wrongs. They may disagree on what objective morality is, but as with science, they believe a truth exists, and should be sought. The atheist believes everyone's morals are mere preferences (or just things they've invented in their heads, like God) - and therefore no morality is better than another. So superior morality to the Christian world view ... never. Ever.
So let's put an end to atheists claiming that their own invented morals and truths are objective in one breath, then denying God in the next. "My truth is objective" followed by "objective truths do not exist".
The bible does not condone slavery or genocide, and without a doubt, slavery was ended by the Christian world view. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, in the atheist world view that would oppose slavery. Quite the opposite, as Darwinian materialism (which most atheists ascribe to,) would say nothing is more natural than stronger races dominating or even eliminating the weaker races (ref. all our atheist genocides).
The atheistic world view has no basis for morality, much less objective morality (God's will), and most atheist philosophers would argue that morality does not exist, or at best is a personal preference or cultural norm.
So never, ever listen to an atheist claiming higher moral grounds than Christians.
Christians claim God exists, therefore objective morality exists, and THEREFORE they have the right ... no ... the Obligation to point out moral wrongs. They may disagree on what objective morality is, but as with science, they believe a truth exists, and should be sought. The atheist believes everyone's morals are mere preferences (or just things they've invented in their heads, like God) - and therefore no morality is better than another. So superior morality to the Christian world view ... never. Ever.
So let's put an end to atheists claiming that their own invented morals and truths are objective in one breath, then denying God in the next. "My truth is objective" followed by "objective truths do not exist".
1
James Dobson, hero of white evangelicals and reincarnation of the antebellum plantation owner.
There are a couple of kids in our neighborhood who were raised according to the Dobson method. Not surprisingly, both ended up in jail for assault.
There are a couple of kids in our neighborhood who were raised according to the Dobson method. Not surprisingly, both ended up in jail for assault.
282
"There are a couple of kids in our neighborhood who were raised according to the Dobson method. Not surprisingly, both ended up in jail for assault."
The last thing survivors of child abuse need is the suspicion that we will end up as violent adults. Most of us who were raised according to Dobson's methods are quietly working to overcome the trauma while using what we suffered as a path to greater empathy and compassion for others.
You have no idea who among your many acquaintances may be reading your comment with dismay. Please be more careful in the future.
The last thing survivors of child abuse need is the suspicion that we will end up as violent adults. Most of us who were raised according to Dobson's methods are quietly working to overcome the trauma while using what we suffered as a path to greater empathy and compassion for others.
You have no idea who among your many acquaintances may be reading your comment with dismay. Please be more careful in the future.
1
Stacy...it would actual be more useful to society if victims of James Dobson's religious child abuse methods would go public with Dobson's Christian hypocrisy and systematic torture of American children.
6
In a word, hypocrisy.
73
As Edsall summarizes, Trump is the "perfect storm" of propaganda for the religious conservative......backward looking, tough on everything, dog whistling racism and belatedly right to life....while mouthing religious lingo to keep everyone interested. The "evangelical religious" voter is an oxymoron in more than one sense of the phrase.
34
Whatever happened to the wisdom that explicitly denied Congress power to enact any legislation whatsoever pertaining to religion, either pro or con, as the unanimous first requirement of the original 13 states that ratified the US Constitution, as amended by the Bill of Rights?
1
Biologist/Author Richard Dawkins calls the evangelicals the "American Taliban." So true.
Author Mary McCarthy said: "religion makes good people better and bad people worse." So true.
Author Mary McCarthy said: "religion makes good people better and bad people worse." So true.
370
Deckman's description on the idea of "religious liberty" perfectly illustrates the self-contradictory nature of the concept. On the one hand, "religious liberty" is the idea that one's religious beliefs should override laws when in the two are in conflict. On the other hand, they vehemently oppose the idea of sharia law, which is essentially the idea that law should be based on religious belief. The two are identical, and yet the idea of "religious liberty" includes opposition to sharia law.
This contradiction lays bare the actual idea behind so-called "religious liberty." It's not a desire for liberty at all, but rather the idea that their particular religious beliefs should be privileged over not only all secular laws, but other religious beliefs, too. It's sort of a nativist, xenophobic religiosity (my religion is #1, it should set the rules, and other religions are second-class) that fits perfectly into the Trumpian worldview.
The wish for a return to 1950s morality has been stripped of the morality part, and is just a wish for the 1950s social hierarchy -- white heterosexual Protestants as the only "real" Americans, and men as the undisputed superior gender. It's Christian white supremacy, plain and simple.
This contradiction lays bare the actual idea behind so-called "religious liberty." It's not a desire for liberty at all, but rather the idea that their particular religious beliefs should be privileged over not only all secular laws, but other religious beliefs, too. It's sort of a nativist, xenophobic religiosity (my religion is #1, it should set the rules, and other religions are second-class) that fits perfectly into the Trumpian worldview.
The wish for a return to 1950s morality has been stripped of the morality part, and is just a wish for the 1950s social hierarchy -- white heterosexual Protestants as the only "real" Americans, and men as the undisputed superior gender. It's Christian white supremacy, plain and simple.
652
"...white heterosexual Protestants....."
Well, there are a lot of them so I imagine they will have a say in most matters.
Well, there are a lot of them so I imagine they will have a say in most matters.
They just stopped wearing the white robes.
2
Exactly!
1
Wow, where to begin? At he end. The final quote pretty much rang the bell of truth, Evangelicals, whatever they are, don't care a bit about the teachings of their book nor their savior. I lived in the "Bible Belt" for a few years back in the 80's. I'm talking rural belt too. The apartheid system was so obvious. There was a white 1st Baptist church and a Black Baptist church. After I left they even opened a hispanic Baptist church. The part of town where vast majority of the Blacks lived was even known as "colored town". (In fact, I can only remember one Black family living outside this area) For me this was a rude awakening. I now live 10 miles from the capitol building. Though somewhat better the attitudes here are about the same. So I guess one can say, we didn't come a long way baby. We are full circle back to the 50's. So for the paranoid evangelical movement they have found nostalgia for an age yet to come.
124
The new secular not of christian values evangelicals and their desire for an authoritarian leader who they can follow is alarming and pathetic.
12
Robert Jones pinpointed the essential character of political evangelicals when he labeled them the nostalgia movement. They sense the decline of their religion's influence in this country, a conclusion confirmed by public opinion polls. They associate that trend, moreover, with other changes which they believe harms their secular interests, namely, the improved status of previously marginalized ethnic and religious groups, the evolution of the country's sexual mores, and the relative eclipse of America's dominant position in the world.
Unable or unwilling to distinguish between their spiritual goals as Christians and their worldly interests, these evangelicals tend to interpret the changing status of the LGBT community, for example, as proof that Americans have lost their religious values. These religious conservatives have forgotten, or perhaps spurned, the message of earlier generations of evangelicals to the effect that Christians can never rely on government to advance the mission imposed on them by Jesus.
Living in a society which they dominated politically and economically for generations, many white Christians have forgotten that Jesus associated with marginalized groups and suffered execution at the hands of those in power. The taint of corruption has distorted their values, not those of America, and made them vulnerable to the Pied Piper of Trump Tower, a man without morals who offers them only the fate of all lemmings who abandon their own judgment.
Unable or unwilling to distinguish between their spiritual goals as Christians and their worldly interests, these evangelicals tend to interpret the changing status of the LGBT community, for example, as proof that Americans have lost their religious values. These religious conservatives have forgotten, or perhaps spurned, the message of earlier generations of evangelicals to the effect that Christians can never rely on government to advance the mission imposed on them by Jesus.
Living in a society which they dominated politically and economically for generations, many white Christians have forgotten that Jesus associated with marginalized groups and suffered execution at the hands of those in power. The taint of corruption has distorted their values, not those of America, and made them vulnerable to the Pied Piper of Trump Tower, a man without morals who offers them only the fate of all lemmings who abandon their own judgment.
45
Religious belief can be based on love or fear. When it is based on fear, the follower clings to the rules of their religion like a raft in stormy seas to keep from drowning ones eternal life. Any help the government can provide to reduce the temptation that would pull the believer off the raft is welcome.
It isn't just conservative evangelists that want a government that will enforce their religion and its rules- it is virtually all fundamentalist religions in the world that focus on its "rules" rather than its principals. This is the core of Isis motivation.
Religious leaders word-wide need to battle the mind-set of the rule enforcers that want governments to enforce all of their religious beliefs by denouncing them as the greatest blasphemers of all. If earth was created by God to be a testing ground of human souls, creating a government that enforces all of God's rules is undermining God's entire plan. It is, by true religious thinking, treason to God.
It isn't just conservative evangelists that want a government that will enforce their religion and its rules- it is virtually all fundamentalist religions in the world that focus on its "rules" rather than its principals. This is the core of Isis motivation.
Religious leaders word-wide need to battle the mind-set of the rule enforcers that want governments to enforce all of their religious beliefs by denouncing them as the greatest blasphemers of all. If earth was created by God to be a testing ground of human souls, creating a government that enforces all of God's rules is undermining God's entire plan. It is, by true religious thinking, treason to God.
17
The number may be 666, but the name of the beast is Trump. He's trying to put his mark everywhere.
35
The mask of hypocrisy via fake religious beliefs. A leader who will defeat ISIS? What a joke. Fifteen years ago, the great leader who created ISIS by invading Iraq......Today, the ignorant and gullible leaders who protect Saudi Arabia, the real financier of Rebels in Syria and Yemen....working against our own interest. How much more naïve can we be.......We give billions in arms to countries that ignite groups to fight us. And we dare to believe that the terrorists are jealous of our way of life.
34
Just making sure that I understand; you're blaming the Savior, Obama, too, right?
1
The saddest part of Trumps conversion is that his newly acquired stance on 'finding god' is typical trumpism based on smoke and mirrors! The repulsive photos of him carrying his mothers bible, invoking scripture brought me to tears! The only smart observation Bobby Jindal ever said was about Trump not not invoking the bible as his number one read, was because he was not in it!
39
While the Bible may not be his number one read, I can't help but laugh when he said his favorite part was in Two Corinthians....
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Sadly the quality of mercy is missing from these evangelicals. To quote from Pope Francis "the name of God is mercy".
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This Edsall article is about as truthful an opinion piece as I've encountered in years.
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Mr. Edsall (and Professor Balmer) allude to the importance of gender here, and it's worth exploring further. Trump repeatedly describes the world in terms of masculine privilege, of strength versus weakness, of the assertion of authority versus negotiation and compromise. Many on the religious right share this patriarchal worldview. The ideas of family and home with a strong, dominant father (an authoritarian) that Trump implies fit comfortably into a religious worldview of subservient, obedient wives and masterful husbands.
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It really doesn't surprise me that a majority of self-styled evangelicals support Donald Trump for President.
Think about it: If you believe that evangelical leaders speak for God, how much more ridiculous is it to believe that Trump would be an acceptable President--maybe even elevated by God?
Think about it: If you believe that evangelical leaders speak for God, how much more ridiculous is it to believe that Trump would be an acceptable President--maybe even elevated by God?
18
Believing that Viet Nam draft dodger Trump is a tough guy is no less delusional that believing in the supernatural.
Many always exceptional Americans seem to have forgot the multiple disasters and war crimes when this entire cabal of Viet Nam dodgers had the keys to the Pentagon.
Bush, Cheney, Rove, Libby, Kristol, Wolfowitz and Bolton.
Many always exceptional Americans seem to have forgot the multiple disasters and war crimes when this entire cabal of Viet Nam dodgers had the keys to the Pentagon.
Bush, Cheney, Rove, Libby, Kristol, Wolfowitz and Bolton.
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'Tough guys' always send other people to death or maiming in war. In Mr. Trump's case, 'other' is those without the money or where-with-all of a special person such as he.
5
Much has been made about who in particular was responsible for the death of Jesus....the Romans. The Jews etc. but it's obvious from reading some of of His very statements like the parable of the owner being killed by the caretakers of the vineyard that the guilty party was the religious ones who claimed to speak for him. The ones who wanted His Power but not His teachings. It's amazing to me and actually very confirming of my my faith to see this very same thing happen with those who claim to be Christian today. Barack Obama and Jimmy Carter are the only 2 Presidents who seem to live in the Way of Jesus and they are vilified and hated by those who call themselves Chistians. These Christians long for the Strong One, which is a biblical name used for the Devil. And I believe they would crucify Jesus again if he walked among us.
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These Christians are the ones who screamed, "give us Barabbas" --- the man of violence.
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Dbson's "Christian" comments on how he treated his dog are sickening. I get my cat to obey me by working on the basis of respect, trust and love, not with violence.
I never hit my children either, but then again, I have nothing but disdain for the religious right. By the way, my children all grew up to be fine, agnostic citizens.
I never hit my children either, but then again, I have nothing but disdain for the religious right. By the way, my children all grew up to be fine, agnostic citizens.
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I wonder if the religous right, I don't think they qualify to be called Christians, would think of Jesus as being too soft and feminine, as weak - he really did spend an awful lot time on love and compassion. Would "love thy enemy"Jesus qualify for the “the meanest, toughest, son of a you-know-what I can find" test? I wonder what Jesus would make of the religious right's love for Trump. Undoubtedly, he would pray for them.
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MC: Thank you for this reminder. And here is another one: Jesus also cast the money changers out of the temple, angry at how they profaned it. We must have campaign finance reform and over turn Citizens United.
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I was raised a Southern Baptist and attended Sunday School where I learned the teachings of Jesus. I attend a Methodist church now, mainly because I left the Southern Baptists long ago. (Their one theme is "saving souls," not so much teaching about what Jesus did and thought.) The Evangelicals have it all wrong. The Catholics have it mostly right about doing God's work which is caring for others and looking out for the poor and disenfranchised. There are several examples of Catholics doing this all over the world. Evangelicals are hung up on two issues, homosexuality and abortion. They seem to not think too much or do too much about what Jesus himself taught, which contains very little mention of these issues.
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Actually, I'm not too sure about the praying for them. When the rich boy refused to give up his wealth (and therefore the power and privilege it afforded him in that society) to follow Jesus, Jesus simple turned, walked the other way and commented that is was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich boy to enter heaven. I think Jesus had too much to do ministering to the marginalized and downtrodden to worry about people who already had their "reward".
Mr. Edsall, the evangelist's duty, whether organized as a religion or taken as a Christian duty by an ordinary citizen, is to "spread the Good News," the Word of Jesus Christ as told by the Four Evangelists: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Paul further spread the Gospel as an "apostle of Christ" in his tireless work among the Gentiles (heathen idol worshippers). What the proudly self-described (failing to recognize pride as the father of all sin) "evangelical Christians" fail to understand is that they plow the devil's field with determined hate.
The roots of this Bible Belt nonsense can clearly be understood if one looks at a map. The Secessionist States were all Southern; why this obvious and logical fact can't be understood is beyond comprehension. The Confederacy's political, financial, industrial and social strata were built upon slavery. That this condition of servitude would, on paper anyway, be wrecked by an invading army designed not to end slavery but to keep the Union intact was conveniently dismissed by this "evangelical Christian" culture. What it's adherents did was strip Holy Scripture to mine words and phrases for the nuggets it deemed vital to advance its theory of one race's obligation to engage in the racial subjugation of another simply for commercial purposes. For filthy lucre. In the service of greed.
Religion was the cover then and is the justification for its modern-day "disciples" today: Trump Nation. Jesus Christ never mattered to them.
The roots of this Bible Belt nonsense can clearly be understood if one looks at a map. The Secessionist States were all Southern; why this obvious and logical fact can't be understood is beyond comprehension. The Confederacy's political, financial, industrial and social strata were built upon slavery. That this condition of servitude would, on paper anyway, be wrecked by an invading army designed not to end slavery but to keep the Union intact was conveniently dismissed by this "evangelical Christian" culture. What it's adherents did was strip Holy Scripture to mine words and phrases for the nuggets it deemed vital to advance its theory of one race's obligation to engage in the racial subjugation of another simply for commercial purposes. For filthy lucre. In the service of greed.
Religion was the cover then and is the justification for its modern-day "disciples" today: Trump Nation. Jesus Christ never mattered to them.
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You forgot Kentucky and West Virginia. Kentucky, as one historian quipped, "seceded after 1865." West Virginia actually seceeded from secessionist Virginia, but has been backsliding since. It's mainly just low education levels, but ironically some of the strongest Trump support is in areas of the South that resisted the Confederacy. They are also places where blacks and immigrants are extremely rare, thus seen as abstractions rather than real human beings.
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ISIS is not alone in using religion to make hate holy.
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"Since then, evangelicals have embraced increasingly secular positions divorced from any biblical grounding." And so it has always been, and not just for Christians. As Gordon Allport noted over 60 years ago in "The Nature of Prejudice", in general (there are exceptions), the more religious someone is the more prejudiced they are. This is true despite the fact that prejudice (and hatred) contradict the core teachings of every religion in the world. Unfortunately Christians are not except from this apparent law.
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As cosmic genius Stephen Hawking has said: Religion is fairy tales for adults. And now it looks like those fairy tales are taking root in Trump's fantasy world of government and American power. And while I thought that George W. Bush taking control of Washington in 2000 was a risky thing, I didn't count on a 9-11 giving him more power than God. Now we face the possibility of a Trump regime and his religious acolytes bringing down more hell and damnation than the Middle Ages Inquisition. If people don't vote, we could be in big trouble.
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Look out! Progressive paid-for-by-hillary loose cannon!
Edsall fires shot in all directions, apparently hoping some shots will help his cause.
I think the net effect will be the opposite.
There is nothing that motives Christian Trump supporters more than progressives screaming that Christians are "fear mongers", "racists", "homophobes", "anti-LGBT", "misogynists", "islamophobics", "mean-hearted", "full of hatred" .....
He fires all the standard progressive propaganda cannons, and has surely damaged his own ship in the process.
Can't progressive see that THIS is why good people support a clown like Trump?
Edsall fires shot in all directions, apparently hoping some shots will help his cause.
I think the net effect will be the opposite.
There is nothing that motives Christian Trump supporters more than progressives screaming that Christians are "fear mongers", "racists", "homophobes", "anti-LGBT", "misogynists", "islamophobics", "mean-hearted", "full of hatred" .....
He fires all the standard progressive propaganda cannons, and has surely damaged his own ship in the process.
Can't progressive see that THIS is why good people support a clown like Trump?
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Yes your right, when you say things as they really are it tends to rial up all the "good people". Then they naturally support an authoritarian Mussolini type to counter the "propaganda" that many evangelical Christians (America's Taliban) are fearful nostalgic racists. Progressives paid by Hillery or not don't need to point out the obvious for these people to support Trump or men like him. Also they are fearful to the point of paranoia and daily egged on by conservative talk radio & other paid propaganda sources. By the way why would someone from Norway with it's extensive social welfare system coupled with capitalism & nation wide collective bargaining be lecturing us about people who have a social religious belief system that would totally reject everything that nation stands for? You like Trump & evangelical Christians than you can have them or better yet come live here in one of the area's they dominate and see how you like it before claiming the characterizations are untrue.
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Johnchas -
It sounds as though you think bigotry is a bad thing. In fact, it sounds like you would say bigotry is wrong - for any individual or society, regardless of popular opinion.
This would mean you support objective morality, which requires a belief in God (the objective moral law-giver, if you will).
This article is chock-full of anti-Christian bigotry (I gave a list). I am not arguing that Trump is not a bigot, and I would gladly write the same criticism of "conservative bigots" (of which there are many).
I am arguing on behalf of objective morality, in particular, Christian objective morality, which I believe best deals with reality as we experience it. I also think that if you get to meet evangelical Christians personally, or attend their church services, you would find the bigotry to be as scarce as a jackelope. If someone says same-sex marriage is wrong, it does not make them "haters" or "bigots". It means they believe it is not God's will, but put it one the same level as adultery, which is also sexual behaviour that is against God's will. I am quite sure that 99.9% of American Christian congregations would be appalled to see people with same-sex attractions abused, for example.
Go find out. In the meantime, I will speak out against bigotry when I see it, and [try to] defend the Christian faith against false accusations.
It sounds as though you think bigotry is a bad thing. In fact, it sounds like you would say bigotry is wrong - for any individual or society, regardless of popular opinion.
This would mean you support objective morality, which requires a belief in God (the objective moral law-giver, if you will).
This article is chock-full of anti-Christian bigotry (I gave a list). I am not arguing that Trump is not a bigot, and I would gladly write the same criticism of "conservative bigots" (of which there are many).
I am arguing on behalf of objective morality, in particular, Christian objective morality, which I believe best deals with reality as we experience it. I also think that if you get to meet evangelical Christians personally, or attend their church services, you would find the bigotry to be as scarce as a jackelope. If someone says same-sex marriage is wrong, it does not make them "haters" or "bigots". It means they believe it is not God's will, but put it one the same level as adultery, which is also sexual behaviour that is against God's will. I am quite sure that 99.9% of American Christian congregations would be appalled to see people with same-sex attractions abused, for example.
Go find out. In the meantime, I will speak out against bigotry when I see it, and [try to] defend the Christian faith against false accusations.
1
Yep. They are #deplorable. Jesus turns in his grave.
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Uh, didn't Jesus, you know, rise from his grave? #Giggling
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Jesus rose from his grave on the third day and sits at the right hand of God, according to the New Testament.
1
This proves that evangelicals are not religious at all - they are just hateful hypocrites. WWJD? Not vote for trump.
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So not all evangelical "christians" are racist bigots, just 67% of them.
20
Its hard to believe Dartmouth College actually has a department which studies religion. It should be a study of cults and wizards. It kinda stinks that god stopped talking to us 2000 years ago. Imagine that, cave dwellers benefitted from all of his /her wisdom. They are still fighting over him over there.
5
For many evangelicals, God forgives so that they do not have to. In the parable of the Prodigal Son, the father was a bleeding-heart softie and the older son, who objected to the father's treatment of the prodigal son, was the upholder of true morality and personal responsibility.
The central message of the Koran is against the sort of jihad perpetrated by Isis, but that does not matter either. Theology is largely an excuse for what people want to do anyway, although few theologies want to deal with this fact. Dealing with it honestly is a test of truth in a theology, and theologies that avoid examinating how they were and are abused do not pass this test.
The God that loves the Donald is the Devil in whiteface; this whiteface is his favorite and most rewarding tactic, and he uses booze and naked women to distract us so we wont notice the makeup.
The central message of the Koran is against the sort of jihad perpetrated by Isis, but that does not matter either. Theology is largely an excuse for what people want to do anyway, although few theologies want to deal with this fact. Dealing with it honestly is a test of truth in a theology, and theologies that avoid examinating how they were and are abused do not pass this test.
The God that loves the Donald is the Devil in whiteface; this whiteface is his favorite and most rewarding tactic, and he uses booze and naked women to distract us so we wont notice the makeup.
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