Elections have consequences .
I am just tickled pink the NCAA has made this decision. As a long time North Carolinian I have, in the past, been proud that we were a progressive southern state. I believe that the Republicans in charge have done this state a grave injustice.
3
It is time for institutions of higher learning to stop scheduling intercollegiate events whether it is basketball, football or any other games and competition in North Carolina. Under Governor Pence Indiana attempted to discriminate but ultimately they rejoined this century when the NCAA indicated that they would pull the Final Four from their state. It will not take long for potential scholarship athletes to realize there is a limited future in attending college in state that discriminates.
My feelings on this are more than covered in the comments - so as an aside involving current news in NC - a female student at the University of Chapel Hill held a press conference involving the schools failure to act accordingly to her rape accusations. This makes the comments by Kami Mueller (“I wish the N.C.A.A. was this concerned about the women who were raped at Baylor,”), effectively a foot in mouth moment... and continues the troubled trend of speaking so lightly of something so terrible.
It has occurred to me that the issue is not whether minority groups should be protected and accommodated by the law - they should - but, rather, whether these protections are in balance with broader protections for the society as a whole. The gendered restroom issue may directly affect well less than 1% of the population, while perhaps 80% or more of the population potentially struggles with basic needs - health care, safe neighbourhood, good schools, food and shelter. Is it right to not do business with a state over this one issue, while broader concerns are ignored or largely downplayed?
Word salad deflection. The bill was alot more about denying civil rights that the potty, if fact the NCGOPTP was careful NOT to include enforcement. That was just pureed meat for the base. The real horror of the bill was in making sure that the LGBTQ had no right to any redress in the state of NC for anything big or small.
1
Thanks for the detailed reply. I appreciate your serious point. If the point of the bills is to deny rights more broadly, then it is much more serious than I had assumed, as a civil rights issue.
A second look at this - world salad - not sure about that. The current LGBT political movement is certainly on a roll and perhaps on a steamroller and there is a conservative argument that does not accept it wholesale. It is a recent political asset in America to accept whatever LGBT political positions include, and to never present another point of view. Conservatives are clearly stating in NC that they aren't prepared to accept it, and that their own conscience has to be considered. This is not the same as being amoral, or immoral. It is a belief structure that goes to the heart of people's identity. It cannot be just stripped away and treated as barbaric. There is wisdom in tradition that contemporary deconstructionist secular voices do not give sufficient thought to.
"For the public safety" is just another blatant and overt lie to go along with the conservatives' "for the health and safety of women" lie and their "stop voter fraud" lie.
1
If you think that individual municipalities shouldn't be punished for laws imposed by state legislators, perhaps you should also think that NC voters shouldn't elect idiots to the state legislature.
1
So now the NCAA has joined the ranks of liberals who feel they are entitled to force their political views down the throats of the citizens of North Carolina. We fought one revolutionary war to win our freedom from the dictates of an oppressive offshore government. It increasingly appears that we will need another to win our freedom from the dictates of liberals who feel they are the only ones entitled to rights or opinions.
The majority of citizens of NC did not and do not want this law. In August only 30% supported HB2 and now with this latest development, I bet those numbers drop even more. If you are familiar with the WHOLE bill, I think you will be shocked at how it takes away the rights of workers, cities, etc. on other issues for example ..."Did HB 2 overturn and eliminate all existing local ordinances and any ability to enact family leave policies, child welfare protections, limits on the number of consecutive hours an employee may be required to work without a break or health insurance standards for any contractors in their community?
Yes. And the statute specifically says that.
In fact, HB2 takes away the rights of local communities on many issues...i.e. "Has HB 2 overturned all existing local ordinances and protections for LGBT citizens in North Carolina and banned any communities from ever enacting any such protections again?
Yes. Sections § 143-222.3 and 222.1 expressly do just that."
http://www.ncjustice.org/?q=18-questions-18-answers-real-facts-behind-ho...
Before you predict a revolution or label something liberal, check the facts.
Yes. And the statute specifically says that.
In fact, HB2 takes away the rights of local communities on many issues...i.e. "Has HB 2 overturned all existing local ordinances and protections for LGBT citizens in North Carolina and banned any communities from ever enacting any such protections again?
Yes. Sections § 143-222.3 and 222.1 expressly do just that."
http://www.ncjustice.org/?q=18-questions-18-answers-real-facts-behind-ho...
Before you predict a revolution or label something liberal, check the facts.
3
But Danny, this is America and in my country when we see discrimination oozing from its usual source, the petty south, we simply boycott the offenders.
Nobody's going to force anybody to change the law that north carolinians voted for.
But, we will avoid your states like the plague...which is our right.
The NCAA also has the right to remove games scheduled for north carolina and move those games to other states that are modern.
You aren't suggesting that we should force The NCAA to play in north carolina are y'all?
Man up and stay strong southerners.
Sure you're losing tens of billions in revenue but this is about southern integrity t'ain't it?
Nobody's going to force anybody to change the law that north carolinians voted for.
But, we will avoid your states like the plague...which is our right.
The NCAA also has the right to remove games scheduled for north carolina and move those games to other states that are modern.
You aren't suggesting that we should force The NCAA to play in north carolina are y'all?
Man up and stay strong southerners.
Sure you're losing tens of billions in revenue but this is about southern integrity t'ain't it?
1
While this story included a wealth of information, this is just the tip of the iceberg and you need to expand the story to get to the real threat of the law. As a reader (Kay) commented below "North Carolina's government was greedy and hasty. They cobbled together within hours a massive bill, covering not just the famous/infamous bathroom provisions but made it illegal to sue in state court any charge of discrimination, at any level of government, by anyone, a school, an employer or a service provider. They also removed municipal powers to regulate waste provisions/ and recycling laws and local ordinances as to fracking. It was a mammoth bill which state legislators had two hours to read before a vote was held. It was a calculated play for businesses and conservative voters who continue to paint the issue as hulking, hairy men in girl's locker rooms."
2
I’m lovin’ (not really) the statements being made by the GOP. “OK now we’re going to have to combine the women’s and men’s NCAA basketball tournaments according to Obama!”
Sure. Hyperbole, false equivalencies and the ever-present “We have to keep our kids safe!”
Throughout the world men, women, boys, girls, LGBTQI folks have been using the same bathrooms--usually a ditch or a hole in the ground. Americans have turned bodily excretions into a holy moment surrounded with marble, gold fixtures and individual stalls.
We are both the most sex-obsessed country in the world and at the same time the most guarded....”Shhhh..abstinence only sex education is allowed! Shhh!!”
Sure. Hyperbole, false equivalencies and the ever-present “We have to keep our kids safe!”
Throughout the world men, women, boys, girls, LGBTQI folks have been using the same bathrooms--usually a ditch or a hole in the ground. Americans have turned bodily excretions into a holy moment surrounded with marble, gold fixtures and individual stalls.
We are both the most sex-obsessed country in the world and at the same time the most guarded....”Shhhh..abstinence only sex education is allowed! Shhh!!”
2
For those familiar with the NCAA, Its highly moral stance should be considered suspect. In fact, the NCAA is hardly heroic here. Under Title IX, NCAA lawyers believe they have to move these championships. And the NCAA only took action when the lawyers complet4ed their analysis. Moreover, the most lucrative NCAA championship event is the Belk Bowl. That is not being changed because the bowl is run by the Bowl Committee, which is under contract to the NCAA. That's a good enough distinction for the NCAA not to intervene and let the big money flow.
3
A great example of state laws passed by rural legislators which offend people in the state's metro areas. Political tension.
3
North Caroline is going to have a very rough time in the coming years. Downtown Greensboro is already a ghost town and the hotels are always empty. The government is ruining people's livelihood and income. They better hurry up and back pedal on their stance.
3
LOL. My home, Durham, is booming.
2
old nurse...that would be because of Duke and what is left of the RTP. Other cities that have tourism\conference business: Greensboro and Charlotte have taken a hit
Since the NCAA is so insistent on letting individuals state their chosen gender, they should have no trouble with five seven foot tall, 250 pound guys say they are female and they should play against the women's teams.
Double standard?
Double standard?
You find four more "seven foot tall, 250 pound" transgenders who want to form a basketball team with you, a college that will give you five scholarships and we'll talk of possibilities...
1
Unfortunately I'm already boycotting the Golden State Warriors. Not for the separate-but-equal bathroom frivolity, but for the gun violence in the parking lot and nearby freeways.
2
Makes no sense to hurt the people and businesses in NC because of a stupid bathroom law. Shame on Springsteen for cancelling in the Spring, but outrageous for the NCAA to do this - especially given the thug history that they turn their eye to when it comes to players.
Jeesh...the merchants in Birmingham were "hurt" by the bus boycott triggered by Rosa Parks. That boycott changed everything.
2
If it is shame on Springsteen, then how about everyone who agrees that our elected representatives and not some "protester" make our rules boycott his recordings, concerts, etc.
Hey, worked with the Dixie Chicks who decided that they wanted to get political.
Hey, worked with the Dixie Chicks who decided that they wanted to get political.
The businesses endorsed and the people elected the legislators and governor who passed and signed the onerous piece of discrimination. Those of us who oppose NC’s state sponsored discrimination are under no obligation to reward the people and businesses in NC with money and patronage. You made your bed North Carolina, now lie in it.
1
This bill is more than bathrooms for transgender people. HB2 forbids local municipalities in North Carolina from enacting LGBT discrimination laws. What that means is anyone who wants to, can deny my right to receiving services because I am gay. This law is sanctioned discrimination and it must go, along with Governor McCrory and the Republicans who created it.
11
When's the last time you were denied such services, etc., as are routinely extended to heterosexuals? Or can you, in fact, go home again?
Today's Republican party in NC -- as elsewhere -- can only be described as arrogance and ignorance fighting each other for dominance. After all these years and its history of success, you would think that even the stupidest politician would understand the power of the economic boycott.
5
I'd just about given up on the NCAA. It's about time, but it's still the right thing to do.
2
Seattle, Washington would absolutely welcome the NCAA and happily host the championship events in our fair, friendly, tolerant, progressive city. We welcome all with open arms!
1
This furor about 'public safety' is both wearying and worrying. Can anyone actually support the belief that pedophiles dress in drag and, posing as transwomen, infiltrate public bathrooms hunting for children? Cite five cases? Three? One...? Demonstrate that this entire situation isn't based on, at best, a confabulation, and at worst outright deceit?
Approximately 90% of child sex crimes are committed by someone known to the child. The sort of people (family, friend, health care professional, etc.) who are expressly allowed into the 'wrong' bathroom by HB2. Further, even in the case of 'stranger danger' cases, what's stopping pedophiles form lurking in bathrooms posing as concerned fathers, friends or health aides? It would be much easier than pretending to be trans.
As for effect, how many pedophiles, intent on committing a crime so evil in nature, are likely to be given pause by a regulatory infringement? Especially one that's not even enforceable. After all, without some gross violation of privacy, how exactly does one tell the difference between a transwoman who 'passes' and a 'real' woman? Or identify 'real' women who don't 'pass' because of adrenal cancer, or Cushing's, or polycystic ovarian disease? Full body scans at the door; or a new police-enforced labia checkpoint?
I'm all for protecting children through rational measaures -- I just wish that North Carolina would come up with some instead of pillorying a minority group in order to rally the Republican base.
Approximately 90% of child sex crimes are committed by someone known to the child. The sort of people (family, friend, health care professional, etc.) who are expressly allowed into the 'wrong' bathroom by HB2. Further, even in the case of 'stranger danger' cases, what's stopping pedophiles form lurking in bathrooms posing as concerned fathers, friends or health aides? It would be much easier than pretending to be trans.
As for effect, how many pedophiles, intent on committing a crime so evil in nature, are likely to be given pause by a regulatory infringement? Especially one that's not even enforceable. After all, without some gross violation of privacy, how exactly does one tell the difference between a transwoman who 'passes' and a 'real' woman? Or identify 'real' women who don't 'pass' because of adrenal cancer, or Cushing's, or polycystic ovarian disease? Full body scans at the door; or a new police-enforced labia checkpoint?
I'm all for protecting children through rational measaures -- I just wish that North Carolina would come up with some instead of pillorying a minority group in order to rally the Republican base.
6
The "invisible hand" of the free market at work. Isn't that what Republicans always trumpet?
13
Having embraced HB2, the N.C. Republicans now can't let go. Kinda like one of the Uncle Remus stories.
9
Oh, fine. Now we're a warning to the rest of the U.S. The N.C.A.A.'s action is just one more problem in a state where a few rich men have bought and gerrymandered the government out from under the state's citizens.
North Carolina's problem is just enough voters who will believe in abject nonsense like a "liberal tyranny". In my 40 years of experience here, these sad souls are not the majority.
But we of the true majority are at a loss. Outside of the obvious, voting them out of office, there is little chance of influencing a legislature which deliberately courts voters interested solely in genitals and bathrooms, by giving those topics the maximum amount of attention. At the same time they very quietly pass laws which make it *illegal* to raise the minimum wage.
How do the citizens of other states deal a heartless purchased legislature?
North Carolina's problem is just enough voters who will believe in abject nonsense like a "liberal tyranny". In my 40 years of experience here, these sad souls are not the majority.
But we of the true majority are at a loss. Outside of the obvious, voting them out of office, there is little chance of influencing a legislature which deliberately courts voters interested solely in genitals and bathrooms, by giving those topics the maximum amount of attention. At the same time they very quietly pass laws which make it *illegal* to raise the minimum wage.
How do the citizens of other states deal a heartless purchased legislature?
12
There was NOTHING quiet about passing HB2. It was all over the press
When I talked to individual voters in my small town beforehand, not one of us was aware of all the provisions of this bizarrely retrograde legislation.
After HB2 was passed, of course, its passage was loudly publicized. It was a triumph for the few addled rich old men who have managed to turn our government into their private plaything.
After HB2 was passed, of course, its passage was loudly publicized. It was a triumph for the few addled rich old men who have managed to turn our government into their private plaything.
1
It is time for North Carolina voters to ban Pat McCrory and his fear-mongering, backward thinking cronies from another term in office. The NCAA ruling may go a long way in helping to do this. Bravo NCAA.
10
Nice to see the NCAA following the NBA's lead. We did our part this year by spending our summer vacation in ME and NH, instead of heading to NC and the OBX.
The governor and legislature of NC are reprehensible with their efforts to institutionalize discrimination based on sexual identity/orientation. If the people and businesses of NC want these jokers in office, then they'll have to live with the economic repercussions of resulting boycotts.
The best thing about the boycotts is that this is the free market in action, surely something Republicans wouldn't dare complain about, since they're so blindly in love with all things free market. Oh, wait, unless they're hypocrites.
The governor and legislature of NC are reprehensible with their efforts to institutionalize discrimination based on sexual identity/orientation. If the people and businesses of NC want these jokers in office, then they'll have to live with the economic repercussions of resulting boycotts.
The best thing about the boycotts is that this is the free market in action, surely something Republicans wouldn't dare complain about, since they're so blindly in love with all things free market. Oh, wait, unless they're hypocrites.
14
Just a side thought: the NCAA and other organizations would have been justified taking the same actions with regard to voter suppression.
Governor McCrory and his Republican cohorts were genuinely concerned about in-person voter fraud. Of course they were.
Governor McCrory and his Republican cohorts were genuinely concerned about in-person voter fraud. Of course they were.
7
There is a way that North Carolina can reverse recent actions by the NBA and NCAA:
Vote out those responsible for House Bill 2 and replace them with those who would reverse HB 2 and bring North Carolina into the 21st century...
Vote out those responsible for House Bill 2 and replace them with those who would reverse HB 2 and bring North Carolina into the 21st century...
11
Ms. Mueller calls the NCAA's decision to move its championships "so absurd it's almost comical."
Frankly, having to show your birth certficate to use the bathroom strikes me as far more absurd; and the need for gender police is equally comical. HB2 is a solution to a non-existent problem and serves only to legally sanction discrimnation against gay people.
Frankly, having to show your birth certficate to use the bathroom strikes me as far more absurd; and the need for gender police is equally comical. HB2 is a solution to a non-existent problem and serves only to legally sanction discrimnation against gay people.
12
Only 20 states have statutes that protect against both sexual orientation and gender identity. The ACLU maintains a map that shows which states prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity, which states prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation but not gender identity, and which states have no laws prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity.
https://www.aclu.org/map/non-discrimination-laws-state-state-information...
https://www.aclu.org/map/non-discrimination-laws-state-state-information...
4
Another embarassing, self-inflicted wound to our great state by incompetent government. It would be funny if not so sad (and maddening) for citizens of this state. Shame on you Governor McCrory. Shame.
10
Speak truth to power!
I'm calling on everyone here to boycott the NCAA. Totalitarianism and thought-policing must stop.
I'm calling on everyone here to boycott the NCAA. Totalitarianism and thought-policing must stop.
2
Do you mean boycott the games or being a student athlete.....I don't believe it will matter, but have it
Ah, the recurring myth of the student-athlete. They do exist, but only in intramurals and club sports - activities that the NCAA hasn't yet seen fit to corrupt.
The NCAA should delay taking action on the transgender bathroom issue until federal lawsuits or settle the issue. A federal district court in August issued an injunction that enjoins the Justice Department, Education Department, Labor Department and Equal Opportunity Office from initiating, continuing, or concluding any investigation based on their interpretation that the definition of sex includes gender identity in Title IX’s prohibition against discrimination on the basis of sex. Additionally, the order enjoins these federal agencies for using gender identity guideline or asserting the guidelines carry weight in any litigation initiated following the date of court order. The injunction remains in effect nationwide until the court rules on the merits of a lawsuit brought by 13 states against the federal agencies and or until the court receives further direction from the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals.
2
The NCAA decision is about more than the transgender bathroom issue. The NC legislation was a sweeping blunt overturn of civil rights legislation and a slap in the face to city laws which showed enlightenment.
6
Why should the NCAA wait? It would only make sense for the NCAA to wait if the injunction hadn't been granted and Federal enforcement had been allowed to proceed.
4
Mccroy said the very same thing....so really this is an echo.
3
My husband's addiction to college basketball often has annoyed me but after the N.C.A.A.'s stand today against ill-informed prejudice I'll be joining him and cheering.
14
For those commenters who are interpreting the NCAA's action as purely punitive or a protest, read the quote in the article pulled from the NCAA's statement. This action is not about protest or punishment: it's about the potential for players and spectators being essentially invited by the NCAA to NC for events and the possibility that those individuals will experience discrimination and harassment, legally sanctioned by the NC government, while attending. Knowing the possibility and not acting to prevent it would make the NCAA partially responsible.
Voting rights in Texas, etc., are issues that the NCAA is not directly involved in. That's the difference.
Voting rights in Texas, etc., are issues that the NCAA is not directly involved in. That's the difference.
11
All the championships were scheduled to take place in relatively liberal college towns, which do not support the state discrimination law. So it appears that the NCAA is punishing its blameless members for the transgressions of the state. Why come down so hard on state yokels not tied to the universities affected? Maybe because the NCAA is pervasively anti-discriminatory. Then again, because Democrats tend to spend more on public education, the NCAA tends to favor their interests, in this case by sanctioning a key swing state, and effectively communicating its support for the Democrats. Arguably that sort of strategy is too political for the NCAA.
2
Blah, blah, blah. This is an issue of right and wrong, not of politics and policy. It goes to the heart of what America is and will become. As such, is stands as a bellwether for the future as does the election and the eventual Supreme Court selection.
14
You miss the point. Just because it SHOULD be a matter of right and wrong does not assure that the NCAA lacks "blah blah blah" motives.
2
I was chatting with a co-worker this morning. She stated that she was at a public event the other night. She and several other women were in the restroom when an intoxicated man in a suit came into the restroom and made rude comments to the women and then proceeded to urinate in a stall with the door open. The women, according to my co-worker, were offended and protested. The man stated he could use any bathroom he wanted...its the law. My co-worker certainly felt like her right to privacy was violated. But technically the man is legally correct. The status of the law, except in North Carolina, is that a person may choose to use the restroom that they personally feel most closely identifies with their desired gender identity. The law does not consider the rights of the other users of the restroom to privacy or create any standard what it means to "identify". I am don't think NC made a good distinction...the birth certificate standard ignore people who have gone through hormone and surgery steps to alter gender....but the rest of the states have no standard violates the rights of privacy of other citizens.
3
Nice story...your friends should have called the police....meme
5
You were "chatting " and this story came up? Worthless to repeat without details: where did this "event" take place? The story smacks of convenience and is not credible. Better luck next time
2
Women's rights, as usual, take second place to the "rights" of a man, no matter how deranged he may be.
2
Gov. McCrory and his right-wing Republican legislature are remaining silent because they know the jig is almost up for them. This latest major withdrawal of major revenue-producing events, and shortly anticipated ones, may very well turn over the statehouse to the Democrats in November. One can only hope.
12
Good, the North Carolina legislature has been taking a beating it seems all year both politically, economically and legally. A moray repugnant triple crown, they should be ashamed.
7
Hypocritical opportunism! The NCAA doesn't boycott Texas or any other southern state for racial and voting rights violations that make the LGBT complaints look trivial by comparison.
3
The degree of triviality of rights violations is best determined by those directly affected by those violations, right?
The liberal tyranny in action. They will tolerate not dissent, no difference of opinion. They are on the side of righteousness, by their definition and everyone else is a bigot. Using government threats and intimidation the liberals under Obama have leaned how to intimidate organizations and companies to cower in fear of their retaliation.
11
nice try bill, but in the end there are consequences to actions and whining about the consequences shows an unwillingness to accept responsibility for actions. The state decided they knew better what the locals should allow and overode their actions. Corporations are making financial decisions that these actions are not appropriate to their business. This really is not a liberal/conservative thing, its understanding the consequences of your actions. In the end the conservatives who rammed this thru really didnt think there would be consequences, now they are doubling down on stupid
12
The conservative tyranny in action in the Kaepernick case appears to be equal or greater.
Perhaps the reason is that organized sports receives so much government support. Let's end all of that, and then sports won't have to worry about their constitutionally-protected freedom to be bigots.
Then, players and spectators won't have anything to complain about when sports demand that they give up their rights to free speech.
Or will that mean that the price of tickets will go up????
Perhaps the reason is that organized sports receives so much government support. Let's end all of that, and then sports won't have to worry about their constitutionally-protected freedom to be bigots.
Then, players and spectators won't have anything to complain about when sports demand that they give up their rights to free speech.
Or will that mean that the price of tickets will go up????
Hey wasn't it the NC state gov't trying to override local ordinances, or am I missing something? I know a lot of us are looking to confirm narratives, but this one seems pretty simple: the state went out of its way to say "we would like it to be our official policy that we do not welcome transgender people here," and a bunch of people and organizations said, "that's not cool with us, so we'll take our business elsewhere." Getting to host sporting event is not a right, and taking one away is not "tyranny."
11
the law the simply asks people to go online ans click a box for a new ID? oh i am so discriminated against!
8
What are you talking about? There truly is not going to an id check, or potty police
on the same day that this bill was passed the NC Legislature passed a law denying any municipality the option to increase the local minimum wage; the silence from all the enlightened ones is deafening! What? First of course the CoCs the businesses want to suppress wages, and moe broadly, all the Silicon Valley types may have contact with, many even have in their family a Gay, Lesbian or Bi; but they will never, never, have anyone in their family struggling with three jobs, no health care, etc. This to me is an inditement of those who purport to be so enlightened regarding the "bathroom" ban; One War, Class Wa
3
Not a fair comparison in a lot of ways Joh, other then the legislature overrode localities in both cases which goes against supposed conservative values of "locals know best what is best for them". The bathroom bill will probably not hold up through the supreme court and was a dog whistle to the social conservatives. Now they are stuck with the mess they created and cant back down. The minimum wage is legal and will not have the same impact on companies. Neither is right morally but one is blatantly illegal while the other is just wrong
4
Doesn't matter what they do with respect to the minimum wage. Unions are exempt from it anyway.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/minimum-wage-loophole-written-to-help-...
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/minimum-wage-loophole-written-to-help-...
This is completely in the spirit of the dean of UNC basketball, Dean Smith, who was a formidable force in desegregating and integrating UNC basketball and Chapel Hill a long time ago.
5
Are you talking about the university that kept guys like Rashad McCants and Julius Peppers eligible for championship and Final Four runs by looking the other way as they were given fake grades in a disgraceful African American studies program?
Do you really believe that Roy Williams believed that McCants -- who famously equated college with prison -- had made the Dean's List? He knew better and was perfectly willing to look the other way -- at a minimum. And what has been UNC-CH's response? To spend millions of dollars in a scorched earth defense to avoid accepting responsibility and punishment. That's grotesque.
Do you really believe that Roy Williams believed that McCants -- who famously equated college with prison -- had made the Dean's List? He knew better and was perfectly willing to look the other way -- at a minimum. And what has been UNC-CH's response? To spend millions of dollars in a scorched earth defense to avoid accepting responsibility and punishment. That's grotesque.
2
Actually, I think he's just talking about Dean Smith, who was actually pretty awesome in most ways, though I'm guessing not perfect.
2
What has that have to do with anything? Your hatred of Carolina is clouding your judgement, and it is unjustified, to boot.
The N.C.A.A.'s hypocrisy knows no bounds. Many college basketball uniforms are produced in China, a country where human rights are suppressed and homosexuals have no civil rights laws protecting them, yet the N.C.A.A is going after North Carolina? (The NFL and NBA are even more hypocritical regarding China but that's another subject.) Furthermore, several N.C.A.A. basketball teams have played games in China, yet the N.C.A.A is apparently good with that.
13
Most Americans are wearing clothing made in China, using household goods there etc. It's tough for people to do something about that although it would be nice if we tried.
Why don't you start a drive to gets these teams to wear uniforms produced in the U.S.?
Why don't you start a drive to gets these teams to wear uniforms produced in the U.S.?
4
No great fan of the NCAA--but you take the action you can take, at a time and place where it might be effective...
3
Wal, so you're saying the NCAA is in a position to prohibit basketball tournaments in North Carolina but not in a position to prohibit NCAA teams playing in countries where human rights are violated much more egregiously than in North Carolina?
2
No problem with what the NCAA has done, but what about what it HASN'T done, right there in North Carolina? That's a matter of hypocrisy on a giant scale.
The University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill set up an entire fraudulent department on African-American studies that cheated basketball and football scholarship players out of an education while keeping them eligible with absolutely fake grades -- not easy, but fake. To cite just one appalling example, Rashad McCants, in the year he played on an NCAA championship team made the Dean's List and was given all As for a semester in which he now admits he did no work at all.
So, monitoring the bathroom laws of the state of North Carolina is in the NCAA's purview, but keeping athletes eligible with fake grades while they are attending a member college is not? What a sick joke.
The University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill set up an entire fraudulent department on African-American studies that cheated basketball and football scholarship players out of an education while keeping them eligible with absolutely fake grades -- not easy, but fake. To cite just one appalling example, Rashad McCants, in the year he played on an NCAA championship team made the Dean's List and was given all As for a semester in which he now admits he did no work at all.
So, monitoring the bathroom laws of the state of North Carolina is in the NCAA's purview, but keeping athletes eligible with fake grades while they are attending a member college is not? What a sick joke.
6
Teams playing the ACC in the March Madness have long insisted that the partiality of the NCAA in letting North Carolina teams play games in-state every year has had a bad effect in Duke and UNC's win totals.
Maybe this year the theory will be proven or exploded now that N.C. venues won't provide safe havens for those two schools.
Maybe this year the theory will be proven or exploded now that N.C. venues won't provide safe havens for those two schools.
6
The NCAA doesn't have to support bigots. Period, the end.
10
Define "bigot." Be specific.
4
Merriam-Webster
Simple Definition of bigot:
a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)
Simple enough for you? Bigot.
Simple Definition of bigot:
a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)
Simple enough for you? Bigot.
3
Waiting on a context by which the putative Tarheel bigot gets to display his or her bigotry, Doug, Provide the typical scenario, without Merriam-Webster as refuge....
The NC law is an easy target that is being used to "prove" the tolerance bone fides of these large corporations and tax exempt organizations. Nothing more. It is not a brave stand, but a gratuitous, baldly opportunistic ploy.
Is the NCAA actually now going to parse the legitimacy of the laws in every city and state to see if their laws comply with the "right" level of anti-discrimination/tolerance policies ? In fact, if they were truly serious, why not disallow any college in the state from any association with the NCAA ? They wouldn't dare do that, but where exactly does this end ?
Engagement is always a better policy. Why not continue the events in NC, but include educational statements, activities and displays about why this law might be a bad idea. And that tolerance, understanding & accommodation are always better.
But that would likely detract from the easy. simplistic, and thoroughly ineffective theatrics of this move.
Is the NCAA actually now going to parse the legitimacy of the laws in every city and state to see if their laws comply with the "right" level of anti-discrimination/tolerance policies ? In fact, if they were truly serious, why not disallow any college in the state from any association with the NCAA ? They wouldn't dare do that, but where exactly does this end ?
Engagement is always a better policy. Why not continue the events in NC, but include educational statements, activities and displays about why this law might be a bad idea. And that tolerance, understanding & accommodation are always better.
But that would likely detract from the easy. simplistic, and thoroughly ineffective theatrics of this move.
8
of course its an easy target, a blatant dog whistle law from an embattled governor makes it really easy. When you add on that they are stuck with the consequences and squealing about it it just makes it sport
3
Engagement is always a better policy. Why not continue the events in NC, but include educational statements, activities and displays about why this law might be a bad idea. And that tolerance, understanding & accommodation are always better.
I bet you would have said this to the black folks sitting at Woolworth's. And I bet this type of law does not affect you in the least. So you are just cranky that the rest of us who ARE targeted by this law are not being quite nice enough to the folks that hate us and are making our lives less than yours.
So good to know where you stand on the matter.
I bet you would have said this to the black folks sitting at Woolworth's. And I bet this type of law does not affect you in the least. So you are just cranky that the rest of us who ARE targeted by this law are not being quite nice enough to the folks that hate us and are making our lives less than yours.
So good to know where you stand on the matter.
3
W, in fact, the Woolworth sit-ins is a good example of engagement & activism in the pursuit of justice. You completely missed the point.
For example, it might be better to send transgender NCAA athletes to use whatever bathrooms they want at the publicly financed venues where there are NCAA events.
Also, it's so good to know that you actually "know" who or what I am that allows you to impugn my motives.
For example, it might be better to send transgender NCAA athletes to use whatever bathrooms they want at the publicly financed venues where there are NCAA events.
Also, it's so good to know that you actually "know" who or what I am that allows you to impugn my motives.
2
Conservatives go to the bathroom to pee. But liberals apparently go to the bathroom to make a statement.
Really hasn't the farce of liberals' potty politics run on long enough?
If you are old enough, you remember that part of the opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment was based on the expressed fear that it would require the suppression of separate bathrooms. The ERA's backers snorted in indignation at such a preposterous fabrication.
Well, as Marx said, history repeats itself, first as tragedy and then as farce. The potty wars are raging. Only in America. The rest of the world is smirking.
Really hasn't the farce of liberals' potty politics run on long enough?
If you are old enough, you remember that part of the opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment was based on the expressed fear that it would require the suppression of separate bathrooms. The ERA's backers snorted in indignation at such a preposterous fabrication.
Well, as Marx said, history repeats itself, first as tragedy and then as farce. The potty wars are raging. Only in America. The rest of the world is smirking.
9
You might want to check out what some conservative politicians have gotten up to in bathrooms.
Conservatives are the ones that started this. The rest of us were just going about our business and not harming anyone.
Conservatives are the ones that started this. The rest of us were just going about our business and not harming anyone.
6
Really hasn't the farce of liberals' potty politics run on long enough?
Um, it is not the liberals that are passing these hateful laws on behalf of people like YOU. I think your silly protestations are rather misplaced.
Um, it is not the liberals that are passing these hateful laws on behalf of people like YOU. I think your silly protestations are rather misplaced.
3
I guess - this is why USA needs Donald Trump. To arrest a culture of hostility toward religious liberty.
8
NC is free to all the bigoted religious genuflecting it wants, so long as its Constitutional. The rest of us don't have to spend a dime there.
11
You're free to discriminate, and the rest of us are free to not travel to North Carolina. Does that work for you?
5
I'm confused. Is "religious liberty" getting to do anything you want as long as you say it's for your religious beliefs? Who gets to determine which religious beliefs are legitimate (it's OK to discriminate against gay people for religious reasons but not to smoke pot or sacrifice virgins?) The government? So now "religious liberty"means the government determines which religious beliefs and practices are valid? Seems like the opposite of religious liberty. Why don't we go with, "ALL religious beliefs and practices are lawful unless they violate a specific law. NOTHING is ruled out on religious grounds, only on secular grounds." Then we can argue about whether a law makes sense on secular grounds and leave religion out of it entirely. And after that you can try to convince me I should be OK with a state telling cities they have to discriminate against transgender people.
4
is this the dawn of an age of civic responsibility in college and pro-sports? These athletes work and train hard, demonstrating a level of commitment that is admirable and difficult to emulate.
Athletes, and athletic organizations that take a stand on social issues should be commended and encouraged. Way to go NCAA!
Athletes, and athletic organizations that take a stand on social issues should be commended and encouraged. Way to go NCAA!
5
Let me understand this, NC government has passed an offensive law. But NC sports fans, sports organizing bodies etc are being punished. I don't see justice in this.
This just looks like publicity stunt and steps to keep sponsors calm who don't want to look bad supporting events in NC. NBA and NCAA shouldn't project it as some noble step, this is just another step to make sure their revenues don't suffer.
This just looks like publicity stunt and steps to keep sponsors calm who don't want to look bad supporting events in NC. NBA and NCAA shouldn't project it as some noble step, this is just another step to make sure their revenues don't suffer.
2
NCAA and NBA don't have to tar their reputation on human rights just to please you and/or NC republicans. These seemingly little moments can turn out to matter a lot for a long time. Remember my shock when first reading about George Washington being dragged into doing a slave auction by one of his wives relatives. Think about that for a moment. A remarkable man with great achievements for humanity standing there barking out his hard sell trying to get $ by this immoral, inhumane treatment of men, women and children. Pretty ugly for George and America.
Oh, please. Like the NCAA is a bastion of goodness and nobility. More often than not, athletes don't earn degrees. Who cares if the NCAA football players suffer CTE. Give Paterno those wins back, despite decades of a man's molestation of young boys. Give 'em more money, NC, and they'll return.
4
Seriously you think that McCrory pays. the NCAA?
I wonder if the NCAA would have a problem with me hanging around inside women's locker rooms during the women's basketball tournament?
6
Not if the games were being played in a K Mart.
3
Geesh...trespassing is illegal, so is stalking and menacing, so yes there would be a problem
4
Joe from Iowa... Normal, mentally stable, secure, unafraid, heterosexual and LGBT people do not "hang around" in bathrooms. We don't find a room full of toilets and urinals to be sexy. We only go in there to defecate and/or unrinate, wash our hands, and then leave. It seems you're projecting that we would hang around in there from what, your personal experiences? Who the heck hangs around in locker rooms, of either sex? What are you thinking?
9
Congratulations to the NCAA. Instead of waiting until Nov 8th to even the score in N.C., you guys have hit a three pointer from outside (the state) that is much appreciated.
7
Funny, leftists applauding someone refusing to do business with someone else based on deeply held beliefs. I thought they were against that.
12
Applauding and condemning bigots are two different things.
5
What does being a bigot have to do with anything? I am just wondering whether or not people should be able to choose with whom they engage in business with. Getting some mixed feedback.
Must have. Can you explain? I thought people should be forced to do business with anyone for any reason. Where are people suing the NCAA for discrimination and bigotry?
It is unfortunate that NC would rather stick to their guns & turn away business rather than embrace change. I have been attending the Women's ACC Tourney since 2004, however, I have not attended to the last 2 years because of these types of issue. I cannot give my money to a state that would otherwise discriminate against me or anyone of the LGBT. I will however, be more than happy to attend next year's tournament once the new venue is announced. My partner of 13 years & I will certainly enjoy attending the even in a place where we are ALL welcome & our civil rights respected.
5
But don't the voters of a state have the right to ask their legislators to create laws that suit their morality? This gay-lesbian fad is going to blow away just like the global cooling scare of the 1970's but North Carolinian families will still be there.
Do you really want to join in with determined manipulators fighting to damage the culture of the world's greatest home of democracy and freedom? (Ask any immigrant for the last two centuries.)
Do you really want to join in with determined manipulators fighting to damage the culture of the world's greatest home of democracy and freedom? (Ask any immigrant for the last two centuries.)
8
They have the right to vote in favor of their bigotry if they so chose. But the rest of us also have the right to not support that bigotry, and if that means withholding our dollars, then that's what will happen. They do not have the right to discriminate and then turn around and complain about the consequences. LGBT rights are not a "fad". These are real people's lives and dignities that are being legislated against. If NC wants to be anti-human rights for any group of people then they will feel the sting of their own "moral" high ground.
14
The point is that discrimination should not be tolerated. And as stated in other posts, this bills opens the door to other discriminatory issues not just bathrooms like refusing service to LGBT & justify that bigotry behind religion. I believe that venues can provide bathrooms neutrally gendered. So that isn't the worst part of this bill. This bill is a step backward from all that has been accomplished to ensure that everyone is treated equally & fairly. Newsflash: This gay-lesbian fad is going to blow away just like the global cooling scare of the 1970's but North Carolinian families will still be there. NOT A FAD. I have know I am Gay since I was 8 years old. I am almost 53 Thank you.
Yes, "absurd and comical" is a great example of projection from our GOP legislators. They continue to create laws around problems that don't exist and can't be enforced. Just like the made-up voting fraud in NC, we have to contend with their antics every time we turn around. Polls show that they are not representing the majority of voters in our state. Hopefully, the Koch brothers won't be able to buy this election and common sense and truth will prevail in November. "Pray for us, y'all".
15
"Create laws around problems that don't exist and can't be enforced." You nailed it. There's a whole network, bought and paid for by big money that sets up Americans for just this kind of craziness. They hurt a lot of people, especially the ones they claim to be protecting.
Why did the NCAA not cite the systematic efforts of North Carolina politicians to deny blacks the vote when most of the players on these teams are black.If the gay and transgender issue is an iceberg the denial of blacks right to vote is Mt. Everest. Shame on you NCAA. Let's see, how fan we expell North Carolina from the union? That's what they deserve.
2
Meme alert....this is about the NCAA and NC HB2
3
Right. Not all wrongs have been addressed so let's do nothing.
3
Why, Howard?
Because there IS no systematic effort by North Carolina politicians to deny blacks the vote when most of the players on these teams are black.
You have to have a photo ID to do ANYTHING in our country now.
Anyone not maintaining one is like the crowd that wants to go back to subsistence farming and trapping beavers for their pelts.
You simply cannot live a life without a secure form of identification.
Because there IS no systematic effort by North Carolina politicians to deny blacks the vote when most of the players on these teams are black.
You have to have a photo ID to do ANYTHING in our country now.
Anyone not maintaining one is like the crowd that wants to go back to subsistence farming and trapping beavers for their pelts.
You simply cannot live a life without a secure form of identification.
4
Excellent and justified move. Hits discrimination in the wallet.
Next, no federal dollars for: Government weapons contracts to bigot states.
Next, no federal dollars for: Government weapons contracts to bigot states.
5
Wow. The big news here is that the NCAA is actually capable of having a backbone when it's not engaged in browbeating its cowering member colleges and their "student athletes."
2
Well here I am, at the center of this HB2 mess, right here in Charlotte. The NCAA gave 4 reasons for withdrawing events from NC. The first citing that HB2 invalidates local laws is specious since North Carolina is NOT a home rule state (this means local municipalities are NOT granted the right to make any law they want with disregard for the will of the state, however stupid. It's laid out in the state constitution). So Charlotte's local politicians while perhaps having a good goal in mind willfully disregarded the way our state governs. They were politically STUPID. A second reason is perfectly valid in that Everyone deserves public legal protections and a means of redress. The bathroom provision is the contentious part. The local Charlotte law failed the first time it was brought up because of this provision . Advocates will cite that no LGBT person has ever gone in a bathroom and molested someone. Those aren't the people that Dad's of little girls are worried about. It's the straight pervert who uses the law to get into a bathroom of the opposite sex. Advocates may say that has not happened, but it opens opportunity, and it only has to happen once. The last reason, that state athletes and employees cannot sometimes travel to NC is a result of the rule . If all our politicians had been more adult and immediately granted legal protections and phased in unisex bathrooms over a year, we wouldn't be here. But we have boys & girls governing our state until November.
6
Selective nonsense. The law had many parts alll of them discrimatory and totally unnecessary.. The rubes in Raleigh were just convinced that the people of NC do not have enough sense to see this charade for what it is. We did. There are no potty police to protect those little girls.
5
Don McC, Unless you only utilize (and/or allow your womenfolk) bathrooms guarded by armed sentries, there's nothing anywhere from stopping a straight pervert from walking into a women's restroom and attacking someone. Maybe if we went to the system widely used in Paris and across Europe of unisex bathrooms we'd not be asking such stupid rhetorical questions. Because what "straight pervert" would risk walking into a Unisex bathroom to attack a "frail, helpless" girl or woman if he knew that right behind the closed door of a stall is a 350 lb. linebacker?
3
A VERY powerful political group has triumphed over our elected officials, athleticism, and the individual athletes.
Of course blatant discrimination because of "sexual preference" is wrong. But this is an in-your-face show of brutal power by a protest group. They don't care about anything other than their labeling of bathrooms. Cost to the NCAA and the state, who cares? Affecting the outcome of a national athletic competition -- not my problem.
We have a representative government that we elect, let serve, and abide by their decisions. If we don't like their decisions, we elect someone else, possibly someone with as narrow a view as ours. This "protest" movement basically makes our representatives on a city, state, and federal level irrelevant. We might as well, just have them stay home and whichever group can apply the most pressure and cause the most damage can have their way.
I am dead certain this comment on Representative Government will be shouted down as anti-something, because that is the way fanatical pressure groups operate.
Of course blatant discrimination because of "sexual preference" is wrong. But this is an in-your-face show of brutal power by a protest group. They don't care about anything other than their labeling of bathrooms. Cost to the NCAA and the state, who cares? Affecting the outcome of a national athletic competition -- not my problem.
We have a representative government that we elect, let serve, and abide by their decisions. If we don't like their decisions, we elect someone else, possibly someone with as narrow a view as ours. This "protest" movement basically makes our representatives on a city, state, and federal level irrelevant. We might as well, just have them stay home and whichever group can apply the most pressure and cause the most damage can have their way.
I am dead certain this comment on Representative Government will be shouted down as anti-something, because that is the way fanatical pressure groups operate.
6
You don't think there was anything fanatical in the legislation? It covered much more than bathrooms. It outlawed raising the minimum wage in cities that had approved that. And shouting stuff that is "anti-something" has become the calling card of the Right. Anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, anti-Obama, anti-political correctness (read we want to be just as impolite in public as we have always been in private.)
5
The long lash of PC discipline.
6
HB2 legitimizes gender discrimination in violation of Title IX regulations. The Justice Department says so and so does the NCAA. Gov. McCrory famously said of the subject as taught in our public universities, "If you want to take gender studies, that's fine, go to a private school and take it. But I don't want to subsidize that if that's not going to get someone a job." It now appears that it is his ignorance of the issue that is costing jobs and damaging the reputation of North Carolina.
8
Kudos to the NCAA for standing up to bigotry.
And as to those conservative parents and Politicians who continue to invoke the imminent threat that will be posed to their daughters by male pedophiles using the women's bathroom: Have you never read that more male pedophiles prey on young boys, than on young girls? And that the law permits them to share the same bathrooms RIGHT NOW? Of course you haven't, because you have no interest in educating yourselves based on fact. You simply want to shove your conservative beliefs down everyone else's throat. But one has to wonder what your motivations could possibly have been.
After all, if you listened to facts, you'd see that McCrory and his pals are committing their own political suicide by exposing the state to needless economic pain on behalf of anachronistic/bigoted policies. And that can't happen soon enough.
And as to those conservative parents and Politicians who continue to invoke the imminent threat that will be posed to their daughters by male pedophiles using the women's bathroom: Have you never read that more male pedophiles prey on young boys, than on young girls? And that the law permits them to share the same bathrooms RIGHT NOW? Of course you haven't, because you have no interest in educating yourselves based on fact. You simply want to shove your conservative beliefs down everyone else's throat. But one has to wonder what your motivations could possibly have been.
After all, if you listened to facts, you'd see that McCrory and his pals are committing their own political suicide by exposing the state to needless economic pain on behalf of anachronistic/bigoted policies. And that can't happen soon enough.
6
"This is an incredible statement from the N.C.A.A.,” said Hudson Taylor, the executive director of Athlete Ally – I concur. It is
"“I wish the N.C.A.A. was this concerned about the women who were raped at Baylor,” Ms. Mueller, a spokeswoman for the North Carolina Republican Party, – You're doing a lousy job of attempting to deflect the central issue, Ms. Mueller. Go ahead - keep deflecting - and others will keep defecting.
Its rather simple really - NC has chosen to take one position and others have chosen to take another. This is a zero-sum game NC - and it looks like you're losing. And by the way NC - exactly how many "criminals" have you prosecuted since HB2 has gone into effect. My guess is exactly zero.
"“I wish the N.C.A.A. was this concerned about the women who were raped at Baylor,” Ms. Mueller, a spokeswoman for the North Carolina Republican Party, – You're doing a lousy job of attempting to deflect the central issue, Ms. Mueller. Go ahead - keep deflecting - and others will keep defecting.
Its rather simple really - NC has chosen to take one position and others have chosen to take another. This is a zero-sum game NC - and it looks like you're losing. And by the way NC - exactly how many "criminals" have you prosecuted since HB2 has gone into effect. My guess is exactly zero.
5
Just wondering: Did the NCAA voice its objections during the last presidential campaign when Obama repeatedly expressed the view that he opposed gay marriage? (And Hillary said the same.) Maybe all you self-righteous people could give the people of North Carolina some time to "evolve" like you give to Obama and other Democratic leaders; after all, all this transgender stuff is pretty new.
10
"Revolve" not "Evolve." The spinning on tippy toe never stops....
1
Nice try but neither Obama or Hillary ever demonized gay people the way Republicans have done.
3
R.P. But evolve they did. They thought about the issue, they talked to people, and their thinking on the issue evolved. That's what thoughtful people do. It's the troglodytes on the right who never evolve, but continue to demonize "the other" because it feels good to do so, I guess. And I never heard Obama or Hillary Clinton slander gays and lesbians.....never. Evolution in thinking is a good thing.
2
GOOD.
Maybe when the bigots who run North Carolina get punched in the wallet enough, they'll stop with their foolishness.
Maybe when the bigots who run North Carolina get punched in the wallet enough, they'll stop with their foolishness.
5
I feel sorry for the good people of NC who are against HB2 but must suffer the economic consequences. The state government of NC should not have ignored the large minority of North Carolinians who are against discrimination. This whole unfortunate incidence should also remind us that democracy is not just about majority rule, but must also respect minority right.
4
I wonder if the economic professor at UNCC is rewriting his paper that HB2 did not have an economic effect on NC?
2
I grew up just outside of Charlotte in Rock Hill, South Carolina, under near-constant preachings of "Jesus loves you." I am struck by the fact that Sports Authorities and corporations are fighting for social justice and love while many southern religions fight for bigotry and hate.
10
Monkey see, monkey do. If the sign on bathroom doors is of more pressing moment than the corruption, payola, academic fraud and the selling of sponsorship and souls to the highest corporate bidder that is the stock-in-trade of the NCAA, then we as a society have lost all mooring.
5
Is the NCAA a political organization now too? Their website says they are dedicated to the well being of athletes, not to the politics of the radical left gay lobbies.
Just think about it, when was the last time you were in a bathroom to do something besides use the facilities? Did you ever witness someone who appears to be a man in the ladies room, or a gal at the urinal? Be honest, now. Transgender folks that I know have been 'passing' for years and you wouldn't know they were transgender unless they had a sign or something.
Most modern stadiums and other buildings have family rest rooms, private rest rooms, etc. where someone who wasn't sure what gender bathroom to use still has a place to go.
I'm guessing all this outcry will lead to spending a few hundred million per campus to have single person private toilets everywhere, god forbid people should use a common area at all. None of this has much to do with supporting the hard working student athletes. NCAA is just fanning the flames to make a buck and look "PC". Bah!
Just think about it, when was the last time you were in a bathroom to do something besides use the facilities? Did you ever witness someone who appears to be a man in the ladies room, or a gal at the urinal? Be honest, now. Transgender folks that I know have been 'passing' for years and you wouldn't know they were transgender unless they had a sign or something.
Most modern stadiums and other buildings have family rest rooms, private rest rooms, etc. where someone who wasn't sure what gender bathroom to use still has a place to go.
I'm guessing all this outcry will lead to spending a few hundred million per campus to have single person private toilets everywhere, god forbid people should use a common area at all. None of this has much to do with supporting the hard working student athletes. NCAA is just fanning the flames to make a buck and look "PC". Bah!
7
Excellent. Now if only corporations would exert this kind of benevolent action with states who don't protect citizens with moderate and rational gun control.
9
The GOP dilemma - "Do we give up bigotry or profits?"
I know! It's a tough choice for the poor GOP. It looks like they can only have one. Awwww!
Next dilemma - "Do we remain bigots, or remain in office?"
I know! It's a tough choice for the poor GOP. It looks like they can only have one. Awwww!
Next dilemma - "Do we remain bigots, or remain in office?"
12
I now live in North Carolina. I have a marketing idea. Let's just change our name from North Carolina to North Korea.
7
Colleges should engage in a national boycott of North Carolina. They should play no games there until legal homophobia and black voter suppression no longer exists. Civil Rights is a transcendant issue and MLK utilized the boycott to end discrimination. It should be used again.
7
The various public universities in NC, along with Duke, have all been very strongly against HB2. UNC campuses had their own anti-LGBT laws in place before HB2 was passed and superceded them. But since the consolidated university system relies upon state funding for a significant portion of its funding, the schools are now between a rock and a hard place financially.
So asking someone to prove he or she is who he or she claims to be is suppression? Or is it common sense?
1
EinT - Are you really advocating that we put officials in all public restrooms to check for ID and then have them check someone's genitals?
I don't know about you, but when I go into a bathroom, I go into the stall do my business, wash my hands and leave. I don't spend any time obsessing about who is in the next stall.
I don't know about you, but when I go into a bathroom, I go into the stall do my business, wash my hands and leave. I don't spend any time obsessing about who is in the next stall.
2
There are "many people" here in North Carolina who are saying that McCrony and his buddies are not going to be welcome here after we throw them out in November. Having said that, reports of their plans to destroy our democratic voting process are already well underway. That won't be forgotten either.
16
Hoping the best for NC. South doesn't have to be like this.
Sorry NCAA -- there is absolutely no room on the high moral ground for you.
If you want to lecture others, you better clean up your own house!
If you want to lecture others, you better clean up your own house!
7
Thank you NCAA, as heavy sticks are the only thing the far radical right politicians that have taken over NC's government can begin to get their attention as a corrective.
10
More class warfare. Maybe conservatives should boycott spending money in Blue States or avoiding Hollywood movies where the producers or actors are liberals? When will and where will this insanity end?
10
nice try, doc. this has nothing to do with class.
3
How is this class warfare? There are LGBT people at all socio economic levels. Discrimination is against the law and that's the way it's supposed to be in all 50 states.
3
Who knows where it would end but Blue states could stop sending their tax money to red states that supports the deplorable there.
6
Bigotry and evil-minded religious zealotry do not pay off.
Are you listening North Carolina? And like-minded fanatics in other states?
Are you listening North Carolina? And like-minded fanatics in other states?
6
Scott R:
I think you need to educate yourself a bit more about pedophiliacs. They look just like you or me and are almost never transgender people. You will not be able to tell who they are by seeing them in the bathroom.
Pedophilia and transgender issues are utterly unrelated. Your girls are going to have to go out into the world eventually---the best thing you could do would be to teach them to make good choices. That has nothing to do with bathrooms.
I think you need to educate yourself a bit more about pedophiliacs. They look just like you or me and are almost never transgender people. You will not be able to tell who they are by seeing them in the bathroom.
Pedophilia and transgender issues are utterly unrelated. Your girls are going to have to go out into the world eventually---the best thing you could do would be to teach them to make good choices. That has nothing to do with bathrooms.
7
But an easy way to make sure a pedophile is not in the same bathroom as my daughter is to do away with these ridiculous unfunded federal mandates.
The fact that a grown man can claim to identify as a woman and share a bathroom with my 12-year old daughter is disgusting. Yes, I have taught my daughter to make good choices but she weighs about 90 pounds - far less than your typical pedophile.
The fact that a grown man can claim to identify as a woman and share a bathroom with my 12-year old daughter is disgusting. Yes, I have taught my daughter to make good choices but she weighs about 90 pounds - far less than your typical pedophile.
4
EinT - What world do you live in? Your daughter is more likely to be abused in a familiar place by someone she knows, then she ever is in a public restroom.
You really need to educate yourself. I'd bet money that your daughter has already figured all of this out.
You really need to educate yourself. I'd bet money that your daughter has already figured all of this out.
Smack 'em in the pocketbook. That might bring 'em to their senses.
6
While major organizations - sports, entertainment, corporate, and otherwise may make their opinions count in dollars and cents, applying economic pressure for moral causes, the state also has a right, and perhaps an obligation to not give into these pressures. A state ideally governs according to the principles, due process of law and values of their citizens. When these values are regarded by many as being based on bigotry or prejudice, there is clearly a conflict.
2
Why stop at moving in-state hosting of tournaments to other states and to really put pressure on the state to comply with their opinions. The NCCA should ban all North Carolina college teams from participating in any NCCA College post season tournaments including all sports. Heck, go further and take away all college scholarships and while they're at it, shut down all NCAA athletic sports in the state. That will show them who's in charge!
2
Have you been to college? The schools grant the scholarships.
You simply can not make stuff up when it comes to the GOPTP in NC. Cami Mueller, a spokesperson no less for the GOPTP posted on her twitter acct, right after posting a picture of a nice glass of whiskey (on the rocks):
among other things -
“I wish the NCAA was this concerned about the women who were raped at Baylor,”
That must have been a very large glass.
No words yet from Pat, he is waiting for someone, anyone to tell him what to say
among other things -
“I wish the NCAA was this concerned about the women who were raped at Baylor,”
That must have been a very large glass.
No words yet from Pat, he is waiting for someone, anyone to tell him what to say
8
North Carolina GOP spokesman Cami Mueller can take up her concern about Baylor with fellow Republican Kenneth Starr. Starr could offer his services to the NCAA as a special investigator.
2
My Kingdom for an Open Letter from the presidents and athletic directors of all North Carolina public and private institutions denouncing House Bill 2 and calling for its immediate appeal. I don't know of any institution, public or private, that has a student handbook or any other policy akin to the language and effect of House Bill 2. These days, especially at the vast majority of institutions nationwide, LGBT people are rightly treated just like any other students on campus. North Carolina, and specifically this Bill, is on the wrong side of history. The NCAA, not the bastion of fairness and integrity, is nonetheless correct and has tried "to move the needle" on this issue. Kudos to them. Now it's time for presidents, athletic directors, and coaches to get on the same page, publically, and throw a fastball up and high and towards the head of the electorate and nix this anomalous law. It is clearly contrary to federal law and out of step with most of the rest of the country's mores.
4
"...House Bill 2 and calling for its immediate appeal..."
No doubt may do find it appealing...
No doubt may do find it appealing...
I am against laws that allow people to discriminate against minorities, for example the recent state laws that allowed business owners to refuse service to gays based on their religious beliefs.
However, allowing people to use restrooms based on their gender identity and not their current physical sex is going to extremes. This not only infringes on the rights and privacy of others, but also gives opportunity to sexual predators. Already, an incident was reported at a Target restroom that allows people to choose the restroom based on their gender identity. A man was caught taking pictures of the women inside.
If someone identifies with the opposite sex, they should still use the restroom or shower of their current physical gender. Only after they have the operation and actually change genders should they use the one pertaining to their sexual identity.
However, allowing people to use restrooms based on their gender identity and not their current physical sex is going to extremes. This not only infringes on the rights and privacy of others, but also gives opportunity to sexual predators. Already, an incident was reported at a Target restroom that allows people to choose the restroom based on their gender identity. A man was caught taking pictures of the women inside.
If someone identifies with the opposite sex, they should still use the restroom or shower of their current physical gender. Only after they have the operation and actually change genders should they use the one pertaining to their sexual identity.
10
"A man was caught taking pictures. . . ." If actually true, good. Someone, trans or not, going into a woman's restroom in men's clothing is going to get extra scrutiny. Give him a tough sentence. That will discourage others.
Just before I sat down to read this, I mistuned the radio to right-wing religious talk, and heard call for a boycott of a national store which allows restroom use based on gender identity. If Republicans are going to enact discrimination and call for boycotts, they should expect to be boycotted in return.
Just before I sat down to read this, I mistuned the radio to right-wing religious talk, and heard call for a boycott of a national store which allows restroom use based on gender identity. If Republicans are going to enact discrimination and call for boycotts, they should expect to be boycotted in return.
I understand that Pat is looking for like minded volunteers for his potty police. Sign up now. and by the way that was a crime for that guy to take pictures, just like the busty blonde playboy bunny in California taking the pictures of an older woman, naked, and posting it.
Hogwash, there have been men behaving badly (taking photos, videos etc.) long before this.
We have laws against predatory behavior and ways to enforce those laws.
We have laws against predatory behavior and ways to enforce those laws.
The N.C.A.A. should also pull its tournament games from states that have passed voter ID laws. Everybody knows that these laws are designed to reduce the number of African American and Latino votes. They are clearly as racist as the North Carolina law is bigoted.
6
I applaud the NCAA for taking this stand against bigotry. HB2 and the attempt at voter suppression in North Carolina speaks terribly about an element in that state that is stuck in the Dark Ages. I hope decent people in the state come out in droves to vote out the bigots in November.
10
Guess to be not in the Dark Ages you must be an elite liberal.
2
No, just a decent human being that does unto others as he/she would like done unto him/her. Like not encountering road blocks when trying to exercise one's constitutional right to vote. Or not being discriminated against because one was born lgbt. I believe there are plenty of decent conservatives and liberals. Although a lot of racists and homophobes seem to feel very much at home in the GOP for some reason.
7
If I was on the board of a corporation whose CEO made decisions that alienated customers and drove away business...and then doubled down on those decisions after seeing the business disappear... I'd want that CEO fired. Putting aside all politics and emotion around HB2, the CEO of our state is doing just that- and he needs to be fired by the people.
11
One dynamic that is unfortunate is that the areas that are being punished in North Carolina are the areas where the law is unpopular. The largely rural areas where the gerrymandered legislators who pushed this law live aren't the ones losing the conventions and the tournaments. Its places like Charlotte, whose progressive city council is the one HB2 targeted, that are getting slammed.
2
I do not think our area is being 'punished.' The government here is just wrong and we need to put pressure on them. This state tends to vote anti lgbt (etc) and anti civil rights. We can't be thinking 'but I didn't vote that way.' We need to put pressure on the state.
3
Hopefully voters will no longer put up with this politically liberally "correct" nonsense.
North Carolina will repeal HB2. College basketball is arguably the heart and soul of the sporting scene there. Not able to host NCAA basketball tournament games will likely push the state to repeal the law.
4
It's still shocking to me that there are people who think the persecution of minorities is an example of freedom while working to be inclusive is discriminatory.
33
George Orwell anyone?
1
It is time for white and minority athletes to take up the cudgel provided them by the NCAA and court rulings and do what is right. For too many they trade on a fleeting collegiate career to obtain an education and degrees--if they graduate--that do not prepare them for life or workplace. Big sports is big business yet student athletes go unrewarded and if injured could lose scholarships. And they are kept hermetically clear of the real issues of the day.
LGBT is one of those issues. In North Carolina there is also the horrendous voter restrictions legislated recently and the refusal to provide medical care (Obamacare) for the neediest for starters. While these kids enjoy the limelight that goes with high profile athletics let's enccourage them to use this opportunity as a platform to strike for what is good and right and important. Surely that is part of their education.
So let's invite Coach K, NC, NC State and other public and private universities' coaches and athletes to make clear where they stand on these issues. And let's support them as they stand up or kneel down for what is truly important.
North Carolina
LGBT is one of those issues. In North Carolina there is also the horrendous voter restrictions legislated recently and the refusal to provide medical care (Obamacare) for the neediest for starters. While these kids enjoy the limelight that goes with high profile athletics let's enccourage them to use this opportunity as a platform to strike for what is good and right and important. Surely that is part of their education.
So let's invite Coach K, NC, NC State and other public and private universities' coaches and athletes to make clear where they stand on these issues. And let's support them as they stand up or kneel down for what is truly important.
North Carolina
5
Duke has come out in favor of the NCAA decision.
1
Glad to see major sports take a stand for what is right. Now if they only held college & pro players ALL to a higher standard as public figures the young look up to it would go a long way. Too often teams & players get a free pass when bending or breaking the law & setting bad examples for society - that is when they are big names & are "winning". Like other parts of society those with clout skate while others have full force of society & law on them.
4
So the NCAA is on record as believing that men should be in women's bathrooms? And people wonder why this country is in decline?
16
Why shouldn't mens basketball suffer the same viewership decline in loyalties that the NFL is willing to suffer? I haven't watched a pro game yet this season.
5
Instead of spouting ignorance, why not use your computer to do some research on transgender people?
1
You should actually read the legislation. By the way, the bathroom scandals have been by men in men's bathrooms. This garbage passed by the NC GOPTP and signed by (whine and sign) McCroy with only a few hours of consideration (including time to read it) was designed to make sure that LGBT right to be protected by state or local law would not happen AND to make sure their fanclub maintained the right to discriminate at will. Also included was this moron bathroom bill. The knights of the white camelia would like to to think they are protected the southern magnolia from those nasty men. We have stalls in our bathrooms, we are just fine. And finally, the GOPTP made sure that no municipalty could pass a minimum wage law and then stripped North Carolinians of any right for redress against discrimination in state courts. Now the GOPTP repealed that part, no doubt to get ahead of one of the endless (and expensive for us taxpayers) litigation.
You do know that the GOPTP has siphoned funds from other places to pay for defending this nonsense.
You do know that the GOPTP has siphoned funds from other places to pay for defending this nonsense.
1
I applaud the NCAA's decision. Hit the bigots in the pocketbook as that's all they really care about.
19
How about unisex sports - no more mens and womens teams?
2
Kami Mueller, described the decision as “so absurd it’s almost comical.”
With all the real problems facing the country, the NC Republican Party, spends time, money, effort and political capital on a bathroom law! And that too, a law to overrule other local laws in the State.
And she calls the NCAA's action absurd???
Cant stand these hateful, hypocritical, holier than thou republicans who exploit the ignorant and scapegoat powerless people.
Wake up Kami, go look in the mirror.
With all the real problems facing the country, the NC Republican Party, spends time, money, effort and political capital on a bathroom law! And that too, a law to overrule other local laws in the State.
And she calls the NCAA's action absurd???
Cant stand these hateful, hypocritical, holier than thou republicans who exploit the ignorant and scapegoat powerless people.
Wake up Kami, go look in the mirror.
21
Not the party - the legislature.
Don't like legislatures? You can campaign to get other people elected.
What you SHOULD wonder is how voters inn 30-odd states refuse to vote for Democrats now that progressive Democrats have shown how they see America and how they want it to change.
Don't like legislatures? You can campaign to get other people elected.
What you SHOULD wonder is how voters inn 30-odd states refuse to vote for Democrats now that progressive Democrats have shown how they see America and how they want it to change.
2
Actually, you missed the part where Kami twittered her glass of bourbon before she unleashed her nonsense. Twittering while drinking, by the spokeperson no less for the state GOPTP, is hysterically funny for everyone else. But not very smart
1
L' is the party, GOPTP, they field the "candidates" so yes it is the party .
Three cheers for the NCAA. I wish they could take our governor out also; he has shamed our state.
25
Bigotry must not pay.
14
Have you noticed that the arguments (which appear primarily from men), against allowing a man who thinks he is a woman from using the women's room, don't have a problem with a women in the men's room...curious?
3
Bigotry: Deplorable is as deplorable does.
9
This seems the only think the Republicans understand Money ! If this is all we can do to make these people act like Christians and human beings then so be it! Thank you for your help in this matter N.C.A.A.! Hope more sports and business follow your action!
6
Excellent move by the NCAA.
11
In the United States you have the right to think like a racist. Just as others have a right to make you pay for it.
22
I adore the arguments that the NCAA has no business deciding where its events are held--and I adore even more the argunents that the NCAA ought to be going after the OTHER right-wing states, where they've blown off problems with sexual assault to prop up football teams.
By all means, yank events from Texas, too.
By all means, yank events from Texas, too.
82
Well said bro!
3
Good for the N.C.A.A. This law is reprehensible, a sham play to the lightly-educated and a direct violation of "liberty and justice for ALL." I pray that McCrory is defeated in November and that this law be repealed.
8
Sadly, the people who support McCrory are the ones who will be most affected by the withdrawal of businesses like PayPal and the N.C.A.A.
If ever ''trickle-down economics'' was a viable theory, here is a prime example of it in action.
If ever ''trickle-down economics'' was a viable theory, here is a prime example of it in action.
4
No it's not sad. If these people voted for the clown car that drove us off a cliff, they need to live with the consequences too.
The NCAA to the people of North Carolina: vote out your deplorable Republican legislators and governor.
11
Next, can we all boycott the NCAA until it starts paying its talent ..er .. students?
2
No one is making you watch pretty much anything, even college sports.
2
I can assure you, not everyone in the state of NC shares this position, and Governor McCrory will NOT be getting my vote, for this very issue. It's the economy, stupid!
14
Perhaps Ms Mueller should talk with the NBA and other companies that have left the state and see if it is "much ado about nothing"....it is not!
McCrory will hang on to this bill rather then admit it was a mistake...he wont have to worry about it after November 9.
McCrory will hang on to this bill rather then admit it was a mistake...he wont have to worry about it after November 9.
10
At last, the NCAA has done something humane and memorable...........
8
"several cities and five states, including New York, have moved to bar state-sponsored travel to North Carolina. Such a ban could include college athletes and staff members, the N.C.A.A. said."
If staff members at a college can't go to NC to recruit, that means there will be fewer chances for a high school athlete to get an athletic scholarship. You reap what you sow.
If staff members at a college can't go to NC to recruit, that means there will be fewer chances for a high school athlete to get an athletic scholarship. You reap what you sow.
8
If the kid is good enough, the recruiters will find a way.
Good Move! I hope this trend continues.
6
Hoo-ray for the NCAA..
Hopefully. the final toll for McCrory's overreach for HB2, as well as his absolute trampling of voting rights, comes in 3 steps:
1. Vote McCrory out of office in Nov
2. Vote for Debrorah Ross for senate in Nov.
3. Vote for HRC in Nov, a win in NC would practicallly guarantee Clinton defeats Trump
Hopefully. the final toll for McCrory's overreach for HB2, as well as his absolute trampling of voting rights, comes in 3 steps:
1. Vote McCrory out of office in Nov
2. Vote for Debrorah Ross for senate in Nov.
3. Vote for HRC in Nov, a win in NC would practicallly guarantee Clinton defeats Trump
17
Change in the "New South" comes when ideology meets the almighty dollar. As much as they would like to hold on to past, the dollar almost always wins. I guess you take change anyway you can get it.
11
We have always enjoyed traveling between the Tar Heels and Blue Devil games but are very pleased that the NCAA has made this decision. The governor and the head of UNC are living in the shameful past.
77
"the head of UNC" is living in the shameful past? What are you talking about?
Thank you NCAA and thank you Duke. Having gone to school in Carolina I was appalled at McCrory's and the legislature's actions. A few years back I thought that Carolina had finally entered the 21st Century but I was mistaken. Between the anti-gay statute and the voting restrictions which were (are) overtly racist, the state has reverted and the only thing changed is white sheets and hoodies have now become polyester suits in the case of the legislature.
12
Ms. Mueller’s dreadful analogy to the Baylor situation is the picture definition of how this case appears to have played out – a perpetual rock fight.
“We have the right to mandate who uses what bathroom in North Carolina.”
“Well, we have the right to not do business in your state.”
The NCAA’s case is a bit murkier due to the public funding it receives, but I applaud the organization for doing this – just like I applauded PayPal, the NBA, and others for their decisions.
The governor and legislature can make any decision they want. It’s a big country. Companies can do business elsewhere. It just seems like a strange hill for Governor McCrory to die on.
“We have the right to mandate who uses what bathroom in North Carolina.”
“Well, we have the right to not do business in your state.”
The NCAA’s case is a bit murkier due to the public funding it receives, but I applaud the organization for doing this – just like I applauded PayPal, the NBA, and others for their decisions.
The governor and legislature can make any decision they want. It’s a big country. Companies can do business elsewhere. It just seems like a strange hill for Governor McCrory to die on.
6
She tweeted that bourbon right before imploding, so, well, bless her heart.
1
Has anyone asked Gov. McCrory who is going to be examining people's genitals to make sure they correspond to the ones on the birth certificate?
9
I'm sure the Police Chiefs in most NC cities have asked that question concerning a law that never needed to be created and one that is impossible to enforce.
2
We call them Pat's Potty Police. It would seem that while the GOPTP was preening and posturing about this bill, they forgot to figure out how to enforce it. I suppose they are hoping for volunteers.
2
Now this is a true act of courage. For once principles trump dollars.
6
Maybe NC teams and government workers should be banned from going to states with policies and laws overly supportive of offensive groups.
The NCAA had a choice. It made the right one and refused to entertain a state that discriminates.
Crooked Hillary also had a choice. But she chose to accept $40M in donations (aka bribes) from states with the worst human rights records in the world: Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Oman and Qatar.
Why? Because money rules her.
I wonder what she is hiding in her Wall. St. transcripts. In front of her puppet masters, she most likely insulted ordinary working American workers, much like she recently called them "deplorable" and "irredeemable."
Crooked Hillary also had a choice. But she chose to accept $40M in donations (aka bribes) from states with the worst human rights records in the world: Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Oman and Qatar.
Why? Because money rules her.
I wonder what she is hiding in her Wall. St. transcripts. In front of her puppet masters, she most likely insulted ordinary working American workers, much like she recently called them "deplorable" and "irredeemable."
2
Jay: What an odd comment. First you write approvingly of the NCAA's decision to "refuse to entertain a state that discriminates." Then you pen an ode to Trump. I'm wondering how you think the two are compatible.
9
She is the only candidate who will fight for the working man. Trump has and does hire illegals, busted unions, never paid contractors and filed bankruptcies multiple times putting small businesses out of business. Stop watching Fox and learn what really happens in the world.
1
@MarcosDean - You may need to re-read my post again once or twice, but if you do, you'll realize that I say nothing about Trump.
Instead, it explains that Hillary has a silver tongue, but her words are belied by her actions. She's great with the teleprompter. But she refuses to do press conferences.
And when it comes to actual action - she'll take money and give access to the world's worst human rights abusers.
Instead, it explains that Hillary has a silver tongue, but her words are belied by her actions. She's great with the teleprompter. But she refuses to do press conferences.
And when it comes to actual action - she'll take money and give access to the world's worst human rights abusers.
2
Are Republicans insane? They pass the same bigoted laws in different places and each time, expect a different result, which of course doesn't happen. This is failure to learn at its finest. Maybe this fall North Carolinians will vote them out.
6
The GOP has done the same with trickle down economics and bigotry--and again, the result never change.
1
All actions have consequences. Inappropriate actions often have unintended consequences. McCrory and his fellow travelers though they could pander to the baser instincts of the rural electorate with impunity. They were wrong.
The NFL, MLB and NASCAR should man up and follow suit.
The NFL, MLB and NASCAR should man up and follow suit.
6
One thing we can count on is the law changing, and fast. In North Carolina nothing is more important than College Basketball..
The free market will take care of this problem and solve it. What a great lesson for the federal government! Get out of the way and society will handle it.
The free market will take care of this problem and solve it. What a great lesson for the federal government! Get out of the way and society will handle it.
3
Even the crackers and rednecks in NC feel that loosing business over where people go pee is nuts. This silly process will kick the white trash from the Goveror's mansion and deliver a solid victory for Sec. Clinton. The GOP without NC finds zero path to the White House.
6
It saddens be to see so many people commenting in the NY Times that a culture must punished and ultimately destroyed for the beliefs. The suggestions of genocide are beyond "hints".
3
Bigotry, ignorance, discrimination isn't "culture" and you seem to have missed the fact that discrimination is illegal.
Excellent move.
It's when we all stick together and there is no corner left to hide in, that injustice, bigotry and hate cannot survive.
Let this be a testament to others that we will not accept the ''status quo '' of intolerance any longer.
It's when we all stick together and there is no corner left to hide in, that injustice, bigotry and hate cannot survive.
Let this be a testament to others that we will not accept the ''status quo '' of intolerance any longer.
9
My last comment wasn't posted - I really would like to know why certain comments 'are screened' by NY Times and not posted.
To summarize my unpublished comment - polls have indicated between 60-70% of the people in North Carolina opposed the legislation.
It's a political issue - politicians have created this issue - the people have not had their voice truly represented.
I'm wondering why penalize those in the state that support LGBT rights. We can continue to cancel all types of events and ceremonies.....will it really change those who oppose LGBT?
It's the politicians.....as always.
To summarize my unpublished comment - polls have indicated between 60-70% of the people in North Carolina opposed the legislation.
It's a political issue - politicians have created this issue - the people have not had their voice truly represented.
I'm wondering why penalize those in the state that support LGBT rights. We can continue to cancel all types of events and ceremonies.....will it really change those who oppose LGBT?
It's the politicians.....as always.
1
Sorry - he was elected by a majority. Therefore the majority of NC voters approve of him and his legislations. Your crocodile tears are unmoving. NC deserves whatever it gets for being an uneducated backwater state.
2
Because you aren't doing enough to convince your fellow citizens of what's right, that's why. No, it's not "the politicians"; it's your elected representatives. You need to work harder. And surely you can watch the tournament on television until you've done to work to elect better politicians.
"... an uneducated backwater state."
Really? How about New York?
According to census reports, as of 2015 although New York had one of the highest college attainment rates just 85.7% of adults in the state had at least a high school diploma, *one of the lowest rates in the country.* (I suspect that the college attainment rate was no doubt due to a boost received by the infusion of Midwesterners and Southerners, while the low HS rate is all New York's own.) On the other hand, 86.4% of the adults in North Carolina had at least a high school diploma...
Who would have guessed?
Really? How about New York?
According to census reports, as of 2015 although New York had one of the highest college attainment rates just 85.7% of adults in the state had at least a high school diploma, *one of the lowest rates in the country.* (I suspect that the college attainment rate was no doubt due to a boost received by the infusion of Midwesterners and Southerners, while the low HS rate is all New York's own.) On the other hand, 86.4% of the adults in North Carolina had at least a high school diploma...
Who would have guessed?
"Governor McCrory, a Republican, did not immediately respond to a request for comment." He doesn't have to. He doubles down every time his noxious and misleading political ad comes on TV. I wish my Mute button came with a sci-fi phaser sound effect every time I have to push it.
I can't wait to be done with him and that Hateful Bill 2 in November. Otherwise McCrory and his buddies will continue to stand for hate.
I can't wait to be done with him and that Hateful Bill 2 in November. Otherwise McCrory and his buddies will continue to stand for hate.
11
In the end, the only thing that North Carolina will have is House Bill 2 which they rammed through in a very special session of the legislature.
They don't even know when to say enough is enough and with the ACC Commissioners meeting on the very near horizon they will be hit again.
They don't even know when to say enough is enough and with the ACC Commissioners meeting on the very near horizon they will be hit again.
3
Hopefully this will be the start of the collapse of inter-collegiate sport, or at least to where the games are played for fun and health, and colleges return to their purpose---education. I.e. maybe follow the lead of the University of Chicago. Intra-mural and sports for health of ALL students not 'Pros' in training.
4
That's the kind of thing a person writes while listening to John Lennon's "Imgaine" in the background.
Not so! Lennon was a huge sports fan!
Also, was all this corporate responsibility when lawmakers were doing their best to throttle voter turnout at the polls?
4
(corrected) Where was all this corporate responsibility when lawmakers were doing their best to throttle voter turnout at the polls?
The angry old white men of the South are saying blacks should get over the slavery era of the 1800s and yet the same angry old white men cannot get pass the Civil Rights era of the 1960s.
As a US Army veteran, it infuriates me that Republicans put so much effort into corrupting the democratic voting process with their gerrymandering and throwing up obstacles against minorities such as African Americans that wish to vote. The freedom by all Americans to VOTE is what we veterans served, fought, and died for so that we will never be a two bit dictatorship or some banana republic where elections actually rigged.
As a US Army veteran, it infuriates me that Republicans put so much effort into corrupting the democratic voting process with their gerrymandering and throwing up obstacles against minorities such as African Americans that wish to vote. The freedom by all Americans to VOTE is what we veterans served, fought, and died for so that we will never be a two bit dictatorship or some banana republic where elections actually rigged.
24
Gerrymandering has been around since the 18th century. Hard to pin that one on Republicans since the party didn't exist back then.
3
Murder has been around since way before 10000BC. Lets free all murderers who are currently in prison! We dont want to pin this on current criminals who didnt exist back then.
1
As a 62yr old life-long Republican, I fully support the decision and pursuant actions of the NCAA. I am so tired of government sticking their collective noses into personal issues.
87
@Chuck: "I am so tired of government sticking their collective noses into personal issues."
But you're fine with private businesses doing so? For example, being fired from your job for being gay, or trans, or not hired for being Black, or Jewish, or... (choose your acceptable form of private discrimination here)?
But you're fine with private businesses doing so? For example, being fired from your job for being gay, or trans, or not hired for being Black, or Jewish, or... (choose your acceptable form of private discrimination here)?
I attended a concert and spent a bunch of money in SC this weekend after the band cancelled its performance in NC to protest HB2. As someone born and raised in NC, it's a scary thing when our state starts to make SC look progressive by comparison.
19
CEOs of major corporations, big media journalists, celebrities (movie stars, singers etc.) are LGBT. So, of course the can bully anyone standing in their way.
2
Seriously? You really don't think anyone else is LGBT?
Newsflash, there are lots of straight people who don't want to see bigotry and discrimination taking place and this isn't bullying, our country was founded on the premise that we are all created equal and deserve equal treatment.
Newsflash, there are lots of straight people who don't want to see bigotry and discrimination taking place and this isn't bullying, our country was founded on the premise that we are all created equal and deserve equal treatment.
The NCAA has proven once again that it values money above all else. And, as usual with the "Progressive" movement, heterosexual women can take their place right at the back of the bus. And all those African American players, fans, businesses etc? They can sit back there too. We've got gay people screaming, and they will be accommodated.
And why exactly are the schools suffering for something they had no part in? The North Carolina should immediately sue the N.C.A.A. for discrimination, harassment, intimidation, bigotry and everything else Liberals routinely slander their opponents with.
And why exactly are the schools suffering for something they had no part in? The North Carolina should immediately sue the N.C.A.A. for discrimination, harassment, intimidation, bigotry and everything else Liberals routinely slander their opponents with.
5
You do realize that what you said makes no sense, right?
1
NC legislators cannot compare one criminal case of rape to institutional state sanctioned bigotry that effects hundreds if not thousands of its tax paying citizens and their families. Public officials should keep their personal beliefs to themselves when acting in the interests of all tax payers from whom they draw their salaries.
2
The key demographic in North Carolina that will likely decide the state's future are white and black alumni of North Carolina's public universities. They all have pride in one thing -- their school -- and come Nov. 8, they will have to decide whether the chaos brought on by the GOP-led NC General Assembly will continue or be swept aside. These are the people who also take tremendous pride in their alma maters' sports teams and will be very unhappy with the NCAA's decision.
This cohort of voters is largely but not only urban and suburban dwellers. They are personified by Pat McCory, who was once the quintessential corporate guy more interested in going along then disrupting the apple cart. He's a lost cause; the question is how many voters who put him and his Tea Party zealots into office are now regretting their choices sufficiently to throw them out of office.
This cohort of voters is largely but not only urban and suburban dwellers. They are personified by Pat McCory, who was once the quintessential corporate guy more interested in going along then disrupting the apple cart. He's a lost cause; the question is how many voters who put him and his Tea Party zealots into office are now regretting their choices sufficiently to throw them out of office.
4
I'm encouraged by the NCAA's actions. It acted on moral principle without regard to any additional costs it might incur in rescheduling this game. As the British expression has it, "...people are not hanged for stealing horses, they are hanged so that horses are not stolen." In taking this action, the NCAA has warned all other states that behaving in a civilized manner and accepting behaviors protected by our laws of freedom is a prerequisite for qualifying to host these kinds of events.
60
Love your user handle, one that led thousands of Roman legions across Europe and civilized heathen territories like Britain. But your post nails the issue that many North Carolinians refuse to see. The NCAA wants to make certain that discrimination doesn't happen rather than punish what may have happened. Well said!
2
SPQR,
What freedom do poor athletes have when they play in NCAA
sanctioned events ?
They cannot hold a job during the season, they cannot accept money,
they cannot sell their jerseys and if they seek to transfer to another college
they have to sit out a year. Coaches encourage to take easy classes so they
have plenty of time to practice and not earn too low a G.P.A.
If they suffer a serious injury they lose their scholarships and are left to pay whatever medical bills they have once they leave the program.
How ironic you support the modern slavery of poor athletes by the NCAA.
What freedom do poor athletes have when they play in NCAA
sanctioned events ?
They cannot hold a job during the season, they cannot accept money,
they cannot sell their jerseys and if they seek to transfer to another college
they have to sit out a year. Coaches encourage to take easy classes so they
have plenty of time to practice and not earn too low a G.P.A.
If they suffer a serious injury they lose their scholarships and are left to pay whatever medical bills they have once they leave the program.
How ironic you support the modern slavery of poor athletes by the NCAA.
2
No one put a gun to the head of these athletes and threatened to kill them if they didn't participate in NCAA events. It's their choice. But I agree that universities should not be in the business of athletics. The University of Chicago is my preferred model. But NCAA at least gives players a glimpse of what real academics is all about.
Unfortunately, the furor over the "bathroom" issue misses the lager mark of how an ideologically driven group of legislators has systematically reduced the role of local government all the while declaring they are for smaller government. The "bathroom" portion of HB2 took up two pages of the bill. The remaining 5 pages went about stripping all citizens of the right to file discrimination claims in state court, the rights of county commissions to establish minimum wage laws, and the right of county commissions to enact LGBT legislation with respect to public accommodations.
This is on top of previously enacted legislation which prohibits county commissions from taking actions against polluters even when local water sources are involved. The legislature has also enacted a voter ID law which has been thrown out by a Federal Court for discriminating against African-Americans with "surgical precision".
The sad thing is the cancellation of events in the state hurt middle-class and lower income citizens the most. This, of course, is fine with the local legislators who answer to the inheritor class and the newly rich who support these ideologues.
This is on top of previously enacted legislation which prohibits county commissions from taking actions against polluters even when local water sources are involved. The legislature has also enacted a voter ID law which has been thrown out by a Federal Court for discriminating against African-Americans with "surgical precision".
The sad thing is the cancellation of events in the state hurt middle-class and lower income citizens the most. This, of course, is fine with the local legislators who answer to the inheritor class and the newly rich who support these ideologues.
15
And just to add to this fine comment, it speaks volumes about the intent behind HB2 that the legislature did not provide either guidance or budgets to enforce the bathroom law. They left it to local governments to figure out how to enforce an unenforceable law. How twisted and cynical is that!
1
Thank you for this. The law invalidated recent anti-discrimination laws passed by Charlotte, as well.
This article should include a followup with the content of the official statement the NCGOP published last night.
And then perhaps a link to the twitter feed of the official NCGOP spokeswoman who wrote and published it so that everyone can see what she was doing before she hit send on that awful statement.
Things seem unwell at the NCGOP.
And then perhaps a link to the twitter feed of the official NCGOP spokeswoman who wrote and published it so that everyone can see what she was doing before she hit send on that awful statement.
Things seem unwell at the NCGOP.
3
"a spokeswoman for the North Carolina Republican Party, Kami Mueller said the NCAA should ... "focus their energies on making sure our nation’s collegiate athletes are safe, both on and off the field.”
Absolutely! Just as the NCAA is trying to do with this action. If only the Republican Party could comprehend it's cruelly ignorant hypocrisy. But that would require them to enter the 21st Century.
Absolutely! Just as the NCAA is trying to do with this action. If only the Republican Party could comprehend it's cruelly ignorant hypocrisy. But that would require them to enter the 21st Century.
8
When you have a big sports organization (not an arena known for being the most socially progressive, forgive the pun) acting against the bigotry of laws like HB2, you know that a tipping point has been reached.
I realize that the Republican party has been marinated and suckled in the bigotry, homophobia, and transphobia of the Anita Bryants and the Jerry Falwells of the country, but thankfully America is moving forward. As members of the LGBT community have gained more equality under the law, and have been able to live our lives with greater confidence and openness, the reflexive bashing and dehumanizing by the GOP brings diminishing returns as a political tactic.
I don't expect ignoramuses like Governor McCrory, and politicians like him, to acknowledge the humanity of LGBT Americans, but Republicans' love of money outstrips anything else, so maybe they'll notice that.
I realize that the Republican party has been marinated and suckled in the bigotry, homophobia, and transphobia of the Anita Bryants and the Jerry Falwells of the country, but thankfully America is moving forward. As members of the LGBT community have gained more equality under the law, and have been able to live our lives with greater confidence and openness, the reflexive bashing and dehumanizing by the GOP brings diminishing returns as a political tactic.
I don't expect ignoramuses like Governor McCrory, and politicians like him, to acknowledge the humanity of LGBT Americans, but Republicans' love of money outstrips anything else, so maybe they'll notice that.
9
Great. Just because certain segments of our society are bigoted and hateful (and hypocrites - they useand quote from their bibles to sustain their hate- does not mean the rest of us must buy into that bigotry and hate.
6
This is the absolute height of silliness, the political correctness being taken to the absolute extreme, no one probably really cares anyway
5
I care a great deal. This is neither silly nor extreme. It's just plain justice.
3
You're crazy if you think NC State and UNC don't care about this.
3
I agree--passing a ridiculous law based on bigotry IS the height of silliness.
5
As a life long North Carolinian and Tarheel fan, I fully support the decision of the NCAA. Most North Carolinians support repealing this discriminatory law. Hopefully, after the November elections we will have a government that better represents my home state.
16
Their decision is based on responses from their liberal sponsors. $$ speaks. SC is standing by their decision this law is a farce and panders to one small subset of individuals.
2
So minorities don't deserve equal protection under the law? Is that what you are saying? Remember, HB2 is a Bill that PROHIBITS anti-discrimination laws in local jurisdictions. How do you conclude that HB2 is "pandering to a small subset"? It actually penalizes (not panders to) a subset of citizens. Logical thinking and word usage are clearly not your strong suit.
5
What state are you talking about.
1
Just ask Mike Pence how the "won't bake cake for gays" bill went over in Indiana. Money is the language they understand even as they want us to believe that they are speaking the language of Christ to defend their discrimination.
Twisted people, twisted logic, twisted world.
Twisted people, twisted logic, twisted world.
12
Message from the Supreme Court, and now from organized sports: You LOST. You're WRONG. You are not morally better. Let it go.
12
The article doesn't include the silliest part of the NC GOP's statement: “I genuinely look forward to the NCAA merging all men’s and women’s teams together as singular, unified, unisex teams. Under the NCAA’s logic, colleges should make cheerleaders and football players share bathrooms, showers and hotel rooms."
3
Yes, that they would say that clearly indicates that the NCGOP doesn't even understand the issue.
2
What's silly about that? It's completely true. If there's no appreciable difference between men and women that they should be separated in their bathroom and shower facilities, then why have them on different teams? To "segregate" them is, as many posters keep bringing up, just like bring back slavery. It's discriminatory and bigoted and has to be stopped.
And all the women's teams that get destroyed? Too bad.
And all the women's teams that get destroyed? Too bad.
2
With all the problems we confront in this country, the one that rises to the top is bathrooms.
8
Why not ban teams from North Carolina from competing on the national scene?These Republicans would probably not send that Mueller lady from responding. Is this the best they have who can speak for that party? Useless...
2
Yay!
5
I'm actually going to enjoy watching the New York Times, the NCAA, the NBA and the other usual suspects explain to us that a woman's right to privacy to have an abortion up to the ninth month is absolute, but that the right of privacy to change in a lockeroom is not. What part of Civil Rights 101 do you people not understand: if a man who thinks he is a woman can use a woman's lockerroom, so can a man who knows he is a man. Anything else is...ta da...discrimination on the basis of gender identity. Fortunately the judge in Texas has put a nationwide injunction on Obama's "dear colleague" letter. The North Carolina legislature will not come into session until next year, and even if Pat Cooper wins the governor's office, it is highly unlike the Dems will win the legislature. All this decision by the NCAA does is make them look stupid.
5
Really weird of you to try and compare this with your imagined scenario about allowing abortions "up to the ninth month" but always interesting to see other people's subjective viewpoints on civil rights issues.
4
The University of North Carolina (UNC) creates fake classes (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/22/us/unc-report-academic-fraud/) for 18 years and UNC gets a slap on the wrist at best from the NCAA. But the NCAA can concern itself with these matters. Most real sports fans despise the NCAA. Now all the non-sports fans can admire the NCAA as a morally straight organization.
3
There's a joke in here.....How can you tell a real sports fan from a non-sports fan.
1
Hopefully North Carolina Universities will pull themselves out of the NCAA. And as more states opt to follow North Carolina in banning men from women's bathrooms the NCAA March Madness will be reduced to Baruch playing San Francisco State for the championship with 10 LGBT fans in attendance.
Like the successful boycott of Target other companies like Apple and organizations like the NCAA should also be targeted by customers and fans.
Like the successful boycott of Target other companies like Apple and organizations like the NCAA should also be targeted by customers and fans.
4
The word successful must be defined differently in your dictionary.
1
The NCAA is a bunch of hypocrites. They do nothing but a handslap on the big money-making schools that harbor and protect rapists and pedophiles but take high flown positions when it comes to bathroom rights. It's long past time for higher education to free itself and its students from this Babylonian Captivity by overpaid gym teachers and their highly paid lawyers in the so called NCAA.
6
NC's HB2 is so silly. Everyone, uses the toilet for a bodily function and that is it! There are laws in place which will prosecute any person who wants to do some other weird stuff. It is well known fact that women rest-rooms typically have longer waiting lines than mens. I personally would find it okay for women to use a mens toilet in a pinch because when you got to go, you got go!! Why do politicians have to make a big deal about even the most trivial matters?
5
The N.C.A.A. is a deeply flawed organization, but it got this right, standing for human dignity and against blind and baseless prejudice.
10
Bravo and more needs to be done so that McCrory rolls over.
7
The N.C.A.A. takes a principled stand against Donald Trump and his bigoted supporters.
Who's thunk this was possible?
Who's thunk this was possible?
5
North Carolina -home of "deplorable " ?
3
Can they possibly be surprised ? They are not too tuned into the teams or team culture to miss the need for inclusiveness in this particular venue .
Good for the NCAA on making this empty-court lay-up. It certainly makes a statement in line with others already made. Unfortunately the only statement the NCGOP will yield to is at the ballot box. Until the people of NC vote these clowns out they'll be happy watching college sports on television.
4
McCrory's tenure as governor has been an utter disaster. I can't convey just how much I look forward to voting for Roy Cooper this November.
9
“I wish the N.C.A.A. was this concerned about the women who were raped at Baylor,” Ms. Mueller said in a statement, referring to a recent scandal involving Baylor University’s football program. “Perhaps the N.C.A.A. should stop with their political peacocking — and instead focus their energies on making sure our nation’s collegiate athletes are safe, both on and off the field.”
This is how you play political dodgeball: you try to change the subject.
This is how you play political dodgeball: you try to change the subject.
9
Politics has now deprived the citizens of North Carolina yet another event. Who's to blame? There are millions of North Carolinians - close to 70% - who believe the law should not have passed. Should they be penalized as well?
It's the POLITICIANS. This is a political issue, not supported by the people of the State.
There are no easy answers; maybe these actions will force the legislature to repeal - I don't think they will.
It's the POLITICIANS. This is a political issue, not supported by the people of the State.
There are no easy answers; maybe these actions will force the legislature to repeal - I don't think they will.
2
The citizens voted these politicians to office.
5
Umm, you do know it's THE PEOPLE who put politicians in power in the first place? Where were those "close to 70%" of North Carolinians on Election Day? If they can't be bothered to show up to vote in politicians that actually reflect their supposedly inclusive and progressive values, then they absolutely should be penalized!
If you claim that gerrymandering has created a skewed representation, then GET TO WORK to change that. We did here in California, where Democrats have the power, and now our districts are created by a non-partisan commission rather than the party in power at census time. North Carolina can fix this if it's people care enough to do so. Until then, they'll suffer the consequences of their vote or lack thereof.
If you claim that gerrymandering has created a skewed representation, then GET TO WORK to change that. We did here in California, where Democrats have the power, and now our districts are created by a non-partisan commission rather than the party in power at census time. North Carolina can fix this if it's people care enough to do so. Until then, they'll suffer the consequences of their vote or lack thereof.
4
I wonder who elected the 'politicians?' Could it have been the voters?
3
Congratulations for once to the NCAA. Maybe the black voter suppressors and homophobes that run the North Carolina legislature will now understand the economic term "opportunity cost". Let's hope the ACC acts next and prohibits any post season tournaments, especially basketball, from being played in North Carolina. If that fails take away their home athletic events. Racism and homophobia should never be tolerated by an athletic conference. Step up ACC!!
9
Thank you in NCAA for doing what's right.
9
Thank goodness. As a current resident of NC I say - keep it coming. The law is deplorable and the more push back the better. Thank you NCAA.
19
Why not just stick to the sport you should be playing! i turned off the NFL game last night after all the professional whiners paid 20 million a year pushing their agenda on me!
8
Raleigh's radicalized Republicans may provoke the greatest turnout of minorities ever in November. HB2 and voter ID are their twin towers of destruction that will bring out the response.
9
I am getting tired of watching the "leaders" of my former political party making fools of themselves by making other people's lives more difficult for their own advantage. You don't get closer to God by standing on your neighbor's neck!
I implore all who deplore this deplorable behavior to go to the polls this November to vote McCrory and all candidates of his political party out of office. It is time for all GOP candidates to realize that fear mongering and hateful behavior sticks on them also. That's when things will change!
I implore all who deplore this deplorable behavior to go to the polls this November to vote McCrory and all candidates of his political party out of office. It is time for all GOP candidates to realize that fear mongering and hateful behavior sticks on them also. That's when things will change!
15
So the NCAA wins this week's Gold Medal in Virtue Signaling.
It's past time for normal people to abandon their attachment to all institutions that are infected with political correctness. If you like sports, go to the Y or the park with your buddies and have fun and get exercise.
It's past time for normal people to abandon their attachment to all institutions that are infected with political correctness. If you like sports, go to the Y or the park with your buddies and have fun and get exercise.
7
This debate is pretty simple. As someone who doesn't believe in discrimination of any type I understand the sensitivity this causes, but as a parent of two young girls I realize that there is absolutely no practical way to police this at a public bathroom/lockeroom door to determine who is a true transgen or who is a pedophile...as a parent I can't take the chance.
It's unfortunate that this issue is giving NC a black eye for being a prejudiced backwater, but it's undeserved - especially in the Charlotte area. Tell me this...how many people who are condemning NC on this issue would immediately change their tune if their child fell victim to a pedophile who took advantage of the situation?
It's unfortunate that this issue is giving NC a black eye for being a prejudiced backwater, but it's undeserved - especially in the Charlotte area. Tell me this...how many people who are condemning NC on this issue would immediately change their tune if their child fell victim to a pedophile who took advantage of the situation?
19
I too live in North Carolina and understand the discomfort with pedophiles. But recently I was in line in a bathroom at the Charlotte Airport. In front of me was a young mother with a maybe 3 year old boy. She was told by the woman behind me in line that the bathroom was for women only and to take her son elsewhere. I was proud to hear people speak up in this mother's defense and tell the woman who suggested that her son should go elsewhere to shut up.
I fully support the actions of the NCAA and NBA. Maybe having to have UNC play their tournament games elsewhere will wake some people up.
I fully support the actions of the NCAA and NBA. Maybe having to have UNC play their tournament games elsewhere will wake some people up.
8
I'm a father of a 7 year old girl. I would feel safer with her in the bathroom with a transgender person than with a bigot! To my knowledge, there is not an epidemic of transgendered predators (actually, I read the news every day and have never heard of one, though I'm confident conservatives have a pet example), but there clearly is an epidemic of bigotry in our country!
I want my kids to be friends with all of the wonderful LGBT people in my community and am distressed that they are unfortunately surrounded by so much hate!
I want my kids to be friends with all of the wonderful LGBT people in my community and am distressed that they are unfortunately surrounded by so much hate!
24
In the vast majority of sexual assaults on children, the perpetrators are family, or other people know to the child. If you don't believe me do the research. To believe that gays are pedophiles ranks right up there with the belief that
all black men obsess about raping white women.
all black men obsess about raping white women.
11
The Republican legislators will have to change or repeal this absurd law, like it happened in Indiana, or pay the consequences on Election Day. It's as simple as that!
9
The Republican Party in North Carolina should "pay the consequences" whether they repeal the law or not. Repealing the law under pressure of losing their precious sports events will not change their stripes. They are still bigots and should not be in public service.
2
The GOP, once the party of business, made a deal with the devil (the Christian right) to garner votes. The good people of North Carolina will now have to decide what's more important: economics or bigotry.
15
I fear this decision will back-fire unless it is made crystal clear the ramifications of House Bill 2, with the focus being how this bill eliminated local government ordinances which protected the l/g/b/t community from discrimination. People need to hear personal instances of discrimination... so they are reminded how harmful it is. And people need to be reminded that if protections for blacks, or jews... or any other protected class were removed, there would be an outcry.
6
Wow! This bastion of hypocrisy and blatant dishonesty is just trying to hitch their wagon to a political hot-button.
Fortunately, the porta potty at my golf course is gender-neutral, so I don't need the NCAA to bring their perverted sense of integrity to bathroom legislation.
A message to the NCAA: Your TV revenues would be far better spent on stamping out sexual abuse on campus, improving the education of student athletes and allocating surplus funds to promote activities for other university sports that don't receive prime-time attention.
What a joke!
Fortunately, the porta potty at my golf course is gender-neutral, so I don't need the NCAA to bring their perverted sense of integrity to bathroom legislation.
A message to the NCAA: Your TV revenues would be far better spent on stamping out sexual abuse on campus, improving the education of student athletes and allocating surplus funds to promote activities for other university sports that don't receive prime-time attention.
What a joke!
9
Hypocrisy or not, with this ruling the NCAA at least has made a good start in rectifying intolerance and rot that is business-as-usual in North Carolina (and a number of other states).
4
Lost in this entire election season is the fact the next president will get to appoint at least one maybe 3 SCOTUS justices. If the appointees are conservatives, one can kiss goodbye all the social and civil rights since the mid 20th Century, any obstacles in creating a christian theocracy and reasonable access to healthcare.
Where we attend a basketball game will be the least of our worries.
Do a NYT search on "supreme court nomination." Given what returns, is that enough "front and center" exposure on a matter that will have generations of impact?
Where we attend a basketball game will be the least of our worries.
Do a NYT search on "supreme court nomination." Given what returns, is that enough "front and center" exposure on a matter that will have generations of impact?
12
The "rights" of a very tiny minority do not and should not ever infringe or negate the rights and dignity of the majority. The North Carolina law is a common sense law that would never even have been proposed were it not for the lunatic left in the world who believes there are no differences between the sexes. That idea is scientifically absurd.
The NFL and the NCAA should be ashamed of themselves. Social engineering is NOT part of their mission statement. This is close to what totalitarianism preaches. Change for the sake of change is equally absurd and illogical.
The NFL and the NCAA should be ashamed of themselves. Social engineering is NOT part of their mission statement. This is close to what totalitarianism preaches. Change for the sake of change is equally absurd and illogical.
9
You've got it entirely backwards. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are precisely intended to protect the basic rights and freedoms of minority groups from the tyranny of the majority. It is exactly because the persons affected by H.B. 2 are a very small percentage of the population that makes the conservative side's hysterical reaction so difficult to understand. If they are so overwhelmingly in the majority, why do they feel threatened by a few people who hold different gender identities? Do they believe in personal liberty and freedom for only themselves? Only the majority should be able to enjoy the "inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?" Really?
The "lunatic left" certainly would not disagree that there are gender-based differences. They do not, however, believe that these differences should be expressed in laws in ways inimical to those who fall somewhere on the sexual identity spectrum other than the heterosexual zone.
And exactly where does "totalitarianism" preach that everyone should respect everyone else's differences? It seems to me that H.B. 2 is a totalitarian's idea of "social engineering."
The "lunatic left" certainly would not disagree that there are gender-based differences. They do not, however, believe that these differences should be expressed in laws in ways inimical to those who fall somewhere on the sexual identity spectrum other than the heterosexual zone.
And exactly where does "totalitarianism" preach that everyone should respect everyone else's differences? It seems to me that H.B. 2 is a totalitarian's idea of "social engineering."
6
Based on your twisted "logic" -- then you think that it's OK for the majority to infringe and negate the rights and dignity of the minority. Think about that. So it was OK for white people to negate the rights of black people for many years because the black people are a minority. And it's was OK for men to negate the rights of women because they were a minority.
You may want to think about how the current minorities who will ultimately be the majority in this country will handle your "dignity and rights" once the tables are turned.
You may want to think about how the current minorities who will ultimately be the majority in this country will handle your "dignity and rights" once the tables are turned.
6
The left has NEVER said "there are no differences between the sexes". We are saying that some people don't psychologically identify as their born gender and space should be made for them to be comfortable in their chosen identity. This is not "totalitarianism" but understanding and inclusion. It's only totalitarian to those who are now tantruming because they can no longer shove into the closet everyone who is not white, christian, and cisgendered like them.
And as for the "scientifically absurd", it was uptight Victorian human culture that totally manufactured the idea that each sex requires a separate and private space for biological functions. Until then, such functions took place outside and in the open for all to see, for millions of years.
Tell me, Steve in Florida, where is the science that proves a separate and private space that correlates to gender is biologically necessary for these functions? Citations and links to these studies, please.
And as for the "scientifically absurd", it was uptight Victorian human culture that totally manufactured the idea that each sex requires a separate and private space for biological functions. Until then, such functions took place outside and in the open for all to see, for millions of years.
Tell me, Steve in Florida, where is the science that proves a separate and private space that correlates to gender is biologically necessary for these functions? Citations and links to these studies, please.
3
I commend the NCAA and others for their boycott of NC. However, the one observation I have made is that while these boycotts certainly make a statement and economic impact they do not eliminate the ignorance. I have no doubt that the bigots will come out in full force and support McCrovy and Trump too. We have to understand that it is far more important to the hater to be able to hate than have the benefits of a good economy, jobs and the ability to educate their children.
11
I'm a backwater bigot hater who doesn't want my daughter's privacy invaded by child predators, so I'm supporting McCrory and Trump.
3
Josh, I commend the NCAA as well, but I respectfully disagree with your statement about the impact on North Carolina politics. As a lifelong resident, I have witnessed the incalculable damage done by the Republican majority in the NC General Assembly the past 6 years. However, I have also witnessed a groundswell of grassroots activism resulting from the actions of the ideologues in Raleigh, most notably the Moral Mondays movement led by Rev. William Barber. I believe boycotts like that of the NBA and the NCAA will strike a chord with all North Carolinians. If there's one thing we hold dear in the Tar Heel State, it's our love of basketball. For those folks on the fence about HB2, this most recent boycott should be the nudge they need to take a stand against a bigoted, hateful piece of legislation passed with no discussion in the middle of the night. Because the truth is, the legislators who voted for HB2 don't actually believe in it. The law is simply their diabolical way of dividing citizens into warring factions and capitalizing on the disillusionment of voters.
1
Solomon Grundy - You might want to check out Trump's pal Foley, the guy who sent dirty messages to underage boys.
When you're done doing that, take some time to educate yourself and learn that LGBT people aren't pedophiles.
When you're done doing that, take some time to educate yourself and learn that LGBT people aren't pedophiles.
1
North Carolina's government was greedy and hasty. They cobbled together within hours a massive bill, covering not just the famous/infamous bathroom provisions but made it illegal to sue in state court any charge of discrimination, at any level of government, by anyone, a school, an employer or a service provider. They also removed municipal powers to regulate waste provisions/ and recycling laws and local ordinances as to fracking. It was a mammoth bill which state legislators had two hours to read before a vote was held. It was a calculated play for businesses and conservative voters who continue to paint the issue as hulking, hairy men in girl's locker rooms.
38
Thank you for explaining some of the hidden parts of this agenda. Your comment needs to be at the top of this long list because it broadens the picture to show other issues even more alarming than the "bathroom rules."
This bathroom dispute is stupid. Throughout Europe, and even in some places here in America, bathrooms are fully private, self-enclosed cubicles with only the word, "toilet," or its equivalent on the door. A member of any gender can use which ever cubicle is unoccupied. There is no issue with them, no problem. Converting all gender-specific to gender-neutral restrooms requires only minor remodeling.
12
I'm a North Carolina resident and proudly progressive. I fully support the actions of the NCAA and the NBA, even though it will have a deleterious economic impact on my state. Preventing millions of dollars that would normally flow through North Carolina seems to be the only way to make it clear that the Republican "leadership" has severely damaged the reputation and economy of the state. What is remarkable is they are completely deaf and, even worse, truculent. They continue to defend a bill that had no business becoming law. It is widely reviled both inside and outside NC. Now it is time to vote McCrory out of office, as well as the other Republicans who have, quite frankly, flushed North Carolina's economy down the toilet.
179
As a NC resident and UVA graduate I'm sad on a personal level to see NCAA championship events moved from the state where I have been able to personally witness many UVA victories.
More importantly, it's also sad to see the kids who participate in NCAA athletics in NC schools deprived of the ability to play in championship events on home turf when deserved, and to have their friends and families travel out of state if they want to see them play in those events.
However it's even more sad to see the regressive and bigoted state of affairs in NC brought on by a Tea Party controlled NC legislature and Governor.
From passing HB2, to enacting a blatantly racially discriminatory voter suppression scheme, to a refusal by the Governor McCrory to expand Medicaid benefits under the ACA at no cost to the state 250k poor NC residents, many of whom are children, the Republicans running the state have done incalculable damage to its citizens.
The decision hopefully will contribute to voters throwing McCrory out of office and realizing that political regression back to the days of Jesse Helms will cost the state dearly economically and as to its once proud reputation as being one of the most progressive states in the South.
More importantly, it's also sad to see the kids who participate in NCAA athletics in NC schools deprived of the ability to play in championship events on home turf when deserved, and to have their friends and families travel out of state if they want to see them play in those events.
However it's even more sad to see the regressive and bigoted state of affairs in NC brought on by a Tea Party controlled NC legislature and Governor.
From passing HB2, to enacting a blatantly racially discriminatory voter suppression scheme, to a refusal by the Governor McCrory to expand Medicaid benefits under the ACA at no cost to the state 250k poor NC residents, many of whom are children, the Republicans running the state have done incalculable damage to its citizens.
The decision hopefully will contribute to voters throwing McCrory out of office and realizing that political regression back to the days of Jesse Helms will cost the state dearly economically and as to its once proud reputation as being one of the most progressive states in the South.
16
The NCAA has taken sides in the growing debate over whether cities are “sovereign” governments that can enact laws that conflict with state laws. Most state constitutions subordinate city ordinances to state statues. City ordinances that conflict with state statutes are not allowed in most states, not just North Carolina. The North Carolina law acknowledges that “the regulation of discriminatory practices in employment is properly an issue of general, statewide concern” and states that state employment laws “supersede and preempt any ordinance, regulation, resolution, or policy adopted or imposed by a unit of local government or other political subdivision.” North Carolina doesn’t treat LGBT individuals as a protected class, but neither do 16 other states. (The NCAA is headquartered in Indiana, a state that prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity only in state employment. Indiana doesn’t prohibit venues from segregating public bathrooms by sex, rather than gender identity. Most multi-occupancy public restrooms are segregated by biological sex, not gender identity, in every state.
3
Change is constant and normal and the government cannot legislate social values and mores.
Companies and organizations have to deal with real life situations of race and gender(women and LGBT) everyday. Most local and state governments have recognized that and have moved on.
The South continues to have a problem with race and gender change and the changes in the law to recognize it. If economics is the only way to drive home the point so be it.
They still see themselves as fighting for states rights not having the federal government tell them what to do: btw, that was the same argument used to justify slavery, segregation, and voter suppression.
Secession may not have been such a bad idea after all?!?
Companies and organizations have to deal with real life situations of race and gender(women and LGBT) everyday. Most local and state governments have recognized that and have moved on.
The South continues to have a problem with race and gender change and the changes in the law to recognize it. If economics is the only way to drive home the point so be it.
They still see themselves as fighting for states rights not having the federal government tell them what to do: btw, that was the same argument used to justify slavery, segregation, and voter suppression.
Secession may not have been such a bad idea after all?!?
3
The law is only anti-transgender because there is no realistic line on what transgender is anymore. I can be cisgender one day and transgender the next. There is no medical standard, no doctor verification, or even age minimum etc. Birth certificate requirements are stupid, but it is also patently ridiculous to wake up and one day feel a different gender. Can I also feel a different gender whenever the female line at the bathroom is long at halftime and use the male bathroom, and switch back to being female in 15 minutes because I really did desire to be male during those particular minutes?
The real underlying problem is our discomfort with nudity of the opposite sex. The law was never about bathrooms -- it was about changing rooms and gym showers in kids schools and private fitness centers. It was about the fact that sex texts still cause teen suicides when released by ex boyfriends. We are still a country where we stay covered up and most of us see few sex organs in our lifetime outside our own. If you ever watch Jubilee at Bally's Las Vegas, at first it's almost uncomfortable and voyeuristic with so many bare breasts, but becomes normal or numbing by the end. The fact is people (and even liberal Hollywood) are still modest with breasts, vaginas, and penises. Look at the scandal when iCloud nude celebrity photos were hacked. Being seen naked is still very taboo and potentially shameful. And we don't check our phones before entering the bathrooms.
The real underlying problem is our discomfort with nudity of the opposite sex. The law was never about bathrooms -- it was about changing rooms and gym showers in kids schools and private fitness centers. It was about the fact that sex texts still cause teen suicides when released by ex boyfriends. We are still a country where we stay covered up and most of us see few sex organs in our lifetime outside our own. If you ever watch Jubilee at Bally's Las Vegas, at first it's almost uncomfortable and voyeuristic with so many bare breasts, but becomes normal or numbing by the end. The fact is people (and even liberal Hollywood) are still modest with breasts, vaginas, and penises. Look at the scandal when iCloud nude celebrity photos were hacked. Being seen naked is still very taboo and potentially shameful. And we don't check our phones before entering the bathrooms.
2
Celebrities whose iCloud photos were hacked weren't reacting because they are ashamed of being seen naked, they reacted because their photos were stolen by thieves who hacked their accounts -- big difference.
People taking photos in public restrooms or changing facilities are voyeurs -- and criminals.
And your commentary about "feeling male one minute and 15 minutes later feeling female" is a gross lie in regard to how transgender people think and feel. They aren't switching back and forth to gain advantage in regard to using a restroom at a football game. These people are dealing with a serious situation --- not your flippant portrait. They are literally people born into the wrong gender. Nature makes mistakes -- nature creates children with Down Syndrome, holes in their hearts, underdeveloped internal organs, etc. so why can't people accept the fact that a child can be born looking female but with a brain that tells him that he's a boy just as nature can allow a child to be born who looks like a male but have a brain that is telling her she is a girl.
People taking photos in public restrooms or changing facilities are voyeurs -- and criminals.
And your commentary about "feeling male one minute and 15 minutes later feeling female" is a gross lie in regard to how transgender people think and feel. They aren't switching back and forth to gain advantage in regard to using a restroom at a football game. These people are dealing with a serious situation --- not your flippant portrait. They are literally people born into the wrong gender. Nature makes mistakes -- nature creates children with Down Syndrome, holes in their hearts, underdeveloped internal organs, etc. so why can't people accept the fact that a child can be born looking female but with a brain that tells him that he's a boy just as nature can allow a child to be born who looks like a male but have a brain that is telling her she is a girl.
1
Your thinking that a transgender individual suddenly decides to be another sex shows your complete ignorance about the issue. Every LGBT individual out there will tell you they knew all their lives they identified with another sex.
3
Where was all this corporate responsibility when women's health clinics were being shut down across the country?
27
That's a really good question.
5
Sorry, does not command the same response.
1
North Carolina legislature and Governor were warned HB 2 would cost them. They passed the bill and Governor signed it. Now NBA and NCAA cost the state. We will see how many other companies and associations cost North Carolina before Republican leaders figure they must get rid of HB 2?
9
Never thought basketball could be a source of such poetic justice! This is a powerful sucker punch into the bellies of McCory and the N.C. State Assembly. I would love to have seen the look in their eyes when they got the news.
25
“I think this is making it clear that any state or city wishing to host N.C.A.A. championships has to protect and respect their L.G.B.T. constituents.” Or, more accurately, making it clear that if you don't kowtow to the PC crowd that pervades the collegiate political power structure, you are going to be cut off from our money. Irony of liberal lefties using capitalistic money to enforce a PC agenda!
10
This isn't about being politically correct, it's about treating everyone equally, a principle our country was founded on.
2
And any minute now, McCrory's knee-jerk "common sense" reply ... I assure the Suzanne Moniz' of this forum that the trampling of rights will end two months from now when Pat McCrory is sent packing. Give us a little credit - this law has only miniscule support in the state.
4
In a country that espouses the principles of democracy, civil liberties and the separation of church and state, the preponderance of gerrymandering and unrestricted campaign financing allows the few to control the many. Individual legislators can legislate their oppressive, religiously-framed homophobic or racist belief systems with little fear of recrimination, as has happened in North Carolina. When oppression is legalized, as is the case with NC's HB2, we are complicit if we do not take active steps to support or LGBT brothers and sisters. I commend the NCAA for this action. It is disingenuous for the spokeswoman for the NC Republican party to discredit the NCAA's action by pointing out another egregious incident at another college campus. That is simply a distraction to keep from cleaning up their own house. Each of us become champions of civil rights when we follow the example of the NCAA and we take action in support of our LGBT brothers and sisters. For our own small part, my wife and I will not be dining or staying overnight in NC on our drive to Florida this winter. If enough of us become allies, things are likely to change.
20
A gutsy move by the NCAA. Legislated discrimination still has no place in a free and just society.
22
Maybe McCrory and his bible thumping cronies can get their minds out of the toilet and figure out that what they are doing is hurting the state. This is what happens when people stay home and don't vote in elections leaving it to a fired up minority of largely rural, ill-educated, bigoted people. Did I say "deplorable"? Perhaps I should have.
26
Who'd of thought our strongest collective wisdom would come from the NCAA home of the free and fully controlled labor of young talented athletes as well as gambling pools- we are a bundle of contradictions are we not? Still, nice to see an effort to stand up for tolerance and respect - now to get those voters to the polls this and every November...
11
The only thing McCrory and his GOP-run General Assembly care about is getting money into the hands of the right people (their racial and economic brethren). Hit them where they live, and they might change their policies. Relying on them to change because it is the moral, or fair, or just thing to do is a fool's game. While I love a lot about my state, our current state government is an embarrassment, and is doing horrible damage - economically, environmentally, and with respect to human rights for anyone not a wealthy, white, straight man. Off-year elections and horrible gerrymandering got us to this low point, but to all you non-North Carolinians out there, please believe me when I tell you there are millions of Tar Heels working to turn back the tide of GOP ignorance and hate.
31
I believe you and applaud you and those in North Carolina who share your values.
1
NC is a state run by Deplorables, which is a polite name for white, mouth-breathing, illiterate, neo-Fascist, racist, "Christian"-hypocrite women-haters.
They deserve everything that's not coming to them.
They deserve everything that's not coming to them.
37
To what state will the NCAA move that is a caring and safe place for women, African-Americans, illegal immigrants who have lived here for decades working hard and respecting our laws? Or what about a state where people are not murdered in massacres thanks to our complete lack of stringent and practiced gun control laws? I understand the NCAA wants to make a statement but I'm disappointed that organizations and companies that never showed up for other victims/issues are gathering around this one to the exclusion of others.
4
Welcome to North Carolina, where the lunatics didn't just happen to take over the asylums - they were elected.
We don't have to wait for the courts or the NCAA to remedy these and other problems. There will be an election here in less than 2 months...
We don't have to wait for the courts or the NCAA to remedy these and other problems. There will be an election here in less than 2 months...
42
We need the federal government to keep us on the right side of history here. Because in NC as in many other states, the educated are still outnumbered by uneducated bigots who unknowingly vote against their own self-interests. This general election could not be more important for NC.
36
Republicans have done their level best to deny a quality education to those whom they deem as unworthy, but they understand that many of those very same people will heed the clarion call to hatred, and suspicion, and vote for them anyway.
1
Bravo! The right thing to do- every step like this is affirmation of action on behalf of our what is best among us.
7
So, if I wanted to use a restroom or locker room with some assurance that there were only other people of my same sex (open shower rooms, changing rooms, bathroom facilities with some, but limited privacy) do I have a right to that anymore?
9
If you want to use a "public" facility, that facility must make "reasonable accommodations" for the "public" and yes, that includes transgendered citizens as well. There are plenty of solutions available, like adding more private bathrooms in public facilities for use by whoever requires it. Or if one is truly uncomfortable with the idea of reasonable public accommodation, they may choose to use a privately owned facility.
2
"So, if I wanted to use a restroom or locker room with some assurance that there were only other people of my same sex (open shower rooms, changing rooms, bathroom facilities with some, but limited privacy) do I have a right to that anymore? "
No, you do not. If someone with a mental illness decides that they want to be in the bathroom with you, their wants will trump yours because they have more political capital and more money. Nobody cares about you or your antiquated "morality".
No, you do not. If someone with a mental illness decides that they want to be in the bathroom with you, their wants will trump yours because they have more political capital and more money. Nobody cares about you or your antiquated "morality".
Transgender people aren't new as you seem to think. They have always been around and using the bathrooms of the gender that they identify with, without problems. They discreetly use stalls, as many of us do. So, in answer to your real question, you have probably used a bathroom or changing room with people who have different sexual equipment than you do all along. Has it been a problem for you so far?
2
Growing up in SC, NC was the envy of the south. It was so beautiful; the landscapes, the people. The educational system WAS the best around. That has all changed since the republicans have gained power and raped everything to worship the almighty dollar and legislate their puritanical views.
95
It is clear that the only way to make bigots understand is to hit them where it hurts the most: their wallets.
38
The republican party of today reminds me of the monster from "Stranger Things"; no head, all mouth and just trying to kill everything around it. With donald trump as their titular head and standard bearer, they only want to tear things down, and build walls around notions of returning us to 1952-style america. Gays were in the closet, blacks were in their place and hispanics were primarily invisible. We will never return to those days, despite all the ham-handed and stupid efforts of people like Pat McCroy and Richard Burr. They are the past, nothing more.
41
Let's see what happens in November, but so far it looks like the past is still with us and dominates throughout Republican legislatures, not just in North Carolina.
The creepiness of HB2 was created by the GOP to hide something else. We have such serious problems in the United States, but misdirection, false information, lies, and false hysteria have worked well for them. It saved McCrory's job. Great job N.C.A.A. for calling this out. But where oh were are the voters of North Carolina? Cowering, I am sure, while they watch the misinformation that is spewed out by the GOP.
48
So now the true test will be to see now the citizens of the great state of NC vote come November. Because maybe their Gov. does reflect his constituents and maybe, just maybe, then, the entire state is deserving of these economic consequences.
35
I so wish it were that simple. Because of extensive and effective gerrymandering, it's harder to temper the regressive policies favored by large sections of rural North Carolina than you might think. So embarrassing for our great state.
3
No basketball? OMG, NC will collapse. Well, it's good for all. The NCAA has made a strong statement about equality, but NC residents, too, have said strongly that they don't want equal rights for all NC citizens, and they're willing to restrict business in order to implement their religious beliefs.
15
Governor Mike Pence, the Republican Vise Presidential nominee, got a similar economic message when he tried to pass a restrictive law in the state of Indiana. If the state wants to play games and pass laws that condone bigotry, we will take our business else where. Pence got the message and backed off. We will see what happens in North Carolina. When economics talk, bigotry listens.
166
Please do take your tour somewhere else, perhaps Texas or Alaska.
So...does the NCAA restrict men identifying as women, from participating in college sports...as a female??
7
Comical? No Kami Mueller, it is not comical at all. The self-righteousness, the putrid piety of North Carolina legislators and governor endowing themselves with the Almighty's power of judgement is a tragedy beyond comprehension. Bigotry, racism, and hatred cloaked in hallucinatory christian morality is smothering this country.
11
Only in the 21st century would people say it is discrimination to have a law that says girls must use the girls restroom and boys use the boy restroom. There is nothing religious about it. Its common sense!! Well done North Carolina!! Don't give in!!
8
Durham, my hometown, had voter-supported ordinances against anti-LGBT discrimination. This arrogant state law nullified those policies, forcing every local jurisdiction to allow unfettered discrimination. And I thought conservatives supported *local* control... Glad the NCAA is doing what they're doing. Bring the hammer down. The higher the cost, the better.
28
This has blown up into such a huge issue masquerading as "civil rights" protectionism and it's unfortunate. In all of the college sports events I've attended in NC I've never seen any discriminatory acts against LGBT individuals, nor have I witnessed any person using a restroom outside of what seems to be their gender. I'm sure, regardless of law, that anyone wishing to use a restroom outside of their gender listed on the birth certificate will do so in a stall, in private. What I have witnessed at multiple events are fights over team rivalries, intoxicated individuals in parking lots tailgating before ballgames (being overly obnoxious) and other forms of derogatory behavior not aimed at anyone due to race, religion or sexuality. If the NCAA wants to relocate their events so be it, but the door will swing both ways. Those of us that are tolerant in NC will remember this and will not support the organizations if they return just like we will pull our support from those that are insistent on passing such redicoulous laws.
29
College basketball in NC stands about as much a chance of a boycott as hockey in Canada.
1
"All that is needed for evil to survive is for good men to do nothing"
3
I'd like to point out two things: 1- It's all about incentives, 2- the fact that you haven't seen anything doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
The ironic thing is that the NCAA, which pretends to be about amateur athletics among academic excellence, is standing on principle regarding intolerance even as their system takes advantage of young men who leave uneducated and without a degree. The one and done nonsense tolerated by schools who load their rosters with young men who have no intent of attaining a College Education undermines any pretense of the NCAA that they actually care about what is right.
Defenders of the plantation system at many large NCAA member schools will point out all the scholar-athletes in sports like Lacrosse and Fencing, while ignoring the graduation and drop out rates in Basketball and Football. Maybe I am old fashioned, but the term scholar-athlete puts scholar first. The stat that should be attached to each College or University in the Polls should be their graduation rate for that sport.
The retreat from modernism by Conservative Republicans in the southern US is deplorable, but so is the abuse of the one chance many young men have at attaining a College Diploma by big time Basketball programs. They leave without a degree and their eligibility used up. Both offend and both should change.
Defenders of the plantation system at many large NCAA member schools will point out all the scholar-athletes in sports like Lacrosse and Fencing, while ignoring the graduation and drop out rates in Basketball and Football. Maybe I am old fashioned, but the term scholar-athlete puts scholar first. The stat that should be attached to each College or University in the Polls should be their graduation rate for that sport.
The retreat from modernism by Conservative Republicans in the southern US is deplorable, but so is the abuse of the one chance many young men have at attaining a College Diploma by big time Basketball programs. They leave without a degree and their eligibility used up. Both offend and both should change.
4
The polls have shown a shift toward Democrats as a result of this nonsensical bill (which is just the tip of the Republican iceberg of mean-spirited legislation of the all-Republican legislature and a Republican governor). They have stepped over the line, thus alienating the business community, the entertainment community, and the sports community. It's led otherwise Republican-leaning suburban voters to reconsider the implications of their choices. By the way, if I recall, a straight-party ballot is still an option (except for president), though the Republicans are trying to frustrate court orders banning their recent restrictions on voting.
North Carolina is no longer so "Southern" as it used to be. Business has brought an influx of "foreigners" to the state. So stop thinking hillbillies or tobacco farmers or fundamentalists. Start thinking research scientists, computer-software scientists, and bankers. HB2 is a wake-up call for the latter (and about time).
North Carolina is no longer so "Southern" as it used to be. Business has brought an influx of "foreigners" to the state. So stop thinking hillbillies or tobacco farmers or fundamentalists. Start thinking research scientists, computer-software scientists, and bankers. HB2 is a wake-up call for the latter (and about time).
11
And great colleges: Duke, Davidson, UNC system.
What is inclusion when coerced? What is inclusion when it is divisive? What becomes of religion and morality when trumped by mandates made by the few who remain unaffected by their decrees? Freedom is a curious phenomenon when Darwinian evolution and natural selection become merely random or an imagined choice, n’est pas?
9
Why do you link religion and morality? What is the connection?
1
I believe that allNCAA Division I schools in North Carolina, especially Duke, must forfeit all games until this law is dismantled. Thank you.
6
Go for it! Sick and tired of seeing the slick Gov. McCrory's think they can get away with their chicken fertilizer, while laughing all the way to the bank. Think again.
10
Excellent! More events and companies should follow the NCAA move.
10
A bigoted act to counter a bigoted act.
Intolerance, of homosexuality or anti-homosexuality, is, still, intolerance.
Just because one disagrees with your viewpoint, their viewpoint is not negated or any less valid.
Intolerance, of homosexuality or anti-homosexuality, is, still, intolerance.
Just because one disagrees with your viewpoint, their viewpoint is not negated or any less valid.
5
Weak thinking. By that rationale, condemnation of racism or antisemitism is "intolerance," and those "viewpoints" are "valid."
2
Discrimination is not a viewpoint, it's morally, ethically and legally wrong.
2
Typical comment from Ms. Mueller who is another clueless Republican. I wasn't aware that standing up to bigotry and hatred is "so absurd it's comical." Perhaps Ms. Mueller will change her tune when more organizations boycott North Carolina.
29
Pass H3: mandating separate bathrooms for republicans and for democrats. Then specialty republican bathrooms can segregated by race, gender, assumed gender, age, national identity, adult, child, illegal immigrant, legal immigrant, student, blue collar, religion, atheist, agnostic, coal supporter, fracking supporter, etc. I am sure it will be a building boom in NC and put many people to work.
2
Sorry, NC- you are losing the culture war. Get over it and join the 21st century. Put away your prejudice and hate- it's costing you money.
I applaud the N.C.A.A. for this decision. This will cost NC money and prestige and they will understand that.
I doubt this move will change your heart of hate- but at least it will prompt you to bury it and not legalize hate and have a more civilized society.
I applaud the N.C.A.A. for this decision. This will cost NC money and prestige and they will understand that.
I doubt this move will change your heart of hate- but at least it will prompt you to bury it and not legalize hate and have a more civilized society.
17
This law was all about politics, nothing more. It is an unenforeable law. Are you going to have a policeman at every restroom? Stupid from the beginning but an effort to appeal to the bigots in the state.
15
It is more than a "bathroom law". H@ nullified local governments from establishing anti-discrimination ordinances for protection of LBGTQ people. The bathroom rule was a part of the law. It is amazing how racism and bigotry exist in a state that saw the cruelty of slavery and still the population vote for representatives that continue their evil ways. Where are the North Carolinians on election day that support freedom?
3
You're right. It is a distraction designed to direct attention away form even worse things that they are doing. Look, squirrel!
4
The NCAA has no business getting involved. They are for the most part punishing people that had nothing to do with this statute, many who didn't support it, so they can appear politically correct and get some good press. The Justice department has already sued North Carolina, let this play out as it should in the courts. The law is currently on hold based on a judge's decision, and to my knowledge not a single person has actually been discriminated against based on this law. This is a nice way to take attention away from the myriad failures of the NCAA to protect the rights of their own student athletes, who in many cases are treated like indentured servants, unable to leave and play for another school if they are unhappy, punished for idiotic things like selling a jersey, etc. They have also failed miserably with regard to sexual assault when it occurs by athletes, cover ups still occur regularly and the NCAA gives nothing but a slap on the wrist to these programs. This action is nothing more than a hypocritical grab for some good press, from an organization that in their own dealings have fallen way short in the protection of rights.
41
They are not "punishing" anyone. They are ensuring that the players, staff and fans won't be discriminated against at their games.
While your other complaints have merit, let's not forget that this move is to promote and guarantee human rights.
While your other complaints have merit, let's not forget that this move is to promote and guarantee human rights.
1
You write like the NCAA is a publicly funded organization. It is not.
1
As the article states: "...(the NCAA) Board of Governors, which is largely made up of institutional presidents and chancellors..." Given what has been going on at the highest levels of academia's "institutions of higher education" this kind of intrusive interfering with normal human preferences under the bogus rubric of civil rights is not unexpected. These people think gender is a state of mind and they want to impose their viewpoint on everyone else. The mentality of the NCAA is like the mentality of the State Committee on Sport in the former Soviet Union.
1
The dearth of recommendations for comments approving and, indeed, praising this action, as opposed to the number usually seen approving remedies for other forms of discrimination, such as sexism or racism, is telling. What it reveals is that the overwhelming majority of the usual commenters do not agree, or do not fully agree, that a transgendered person, or for that matter, any person, should be permitted to use his/her public bathroom and/or locker room of choice. That should not matter if that choice is a human right, but there it is.
I would liken this sort of distinction to that surrounding age discrimination, that, as an older person, I certainly oppose, even while recognizing that a person's age is ultimately highly positively correlated with a decline in physical and mental capacity, if only relative to that person's earlier abilities. The Supreme Court has made age discrimination nearly impossible to prove by insisting that a person's age must be shown to be the only reason for a negative action. Just as age occurs along a continuum, so does gender.
The solution to this is to create spaces in which each person can have privacy and feel safe, because one impetus for this is the threat of physical harm or psychological battery on the part of the general male population. That aspect of human male nature may be incorrigible, but it should be the focus of attention and remediation, rather than forcing accommodation that will be expected nearly exclusively of women.
I would liken this sort of distinction to that surrounding age discrimination, that, as an older person, I certainly oppose, even while recognizing that a person's age is ultimately highly positively correlated with a decline in physical and mental capacity, if only relative to that person's earlier abilities. The Supreme Court has made age discrimination nearly impossible to prove by insisting that a person's age must be shown to be the only reason for a negative action. Just as age occurs along a continuum, so does gender.
The solution to this is to create spaces in which each person can have privacy and feel safe, because one impetus for this is the threat of physical harm or psychological battery on the part of the general male population. That aspect of human male nature may be incorrigible, but it should be the focus of attention and remediation, rather than forcing accommodation that will be expected nearly exclusively of women.
10
You are missing the point. H2 banned localities from establishing protections for LBGTQ people. It is more than bathrooms, it is freedom!
1
No it doesn't. It just shows that a lot of us don't care about basketball. IMHO. If Billie Jean King the tennis star stopped playing in this state, I would read about it. Plus the issue is sort of a no-brainer to me, I can't imagine that this regulation will survive for very long.
Mental decline in the elderly is "positively correlated"?? In some but not in others. Many elderly retain their sharp minds. The failure to make this important distinction feeds the discrimination to which you sya you object!
Who is going to check those birth certificates? Maybe it's a Republican job creation plan. Maybe the North Carolina legislature should simply recognize that people doing their business is simply that, doing their own business. To most of us this is simply inane on the part of the North Carolina's legislators. There must be a lot more that is meaningful, relevant, and worthy of consideration than the use of a public restroom by a transgender person.
50
Okay, who here is surprised by what the NCAA did yesterday? Show of hands, please. Seeing none, let's move on—forward if you will (something Pat McCrory and his minions in the legislature never want to do). I applaud NCAA for making the right move (out of NC) and once again (it's like monthly) deplore the deplorable element in NCGOP for showing how backward, bigoted, and basically inhumane it is. There are many good, good people in NC, but unless they turn out this fall and vote out McCrory and his republican goons in the legislature, bills like HB2 are bound to keep happening. So good on the NCAA (this one really hurts the state right where is lives, so to speak). Let's hope these actions continue until the day this hateful law is repealed in its entirety (it's far worse than just the bathroom law; it's the total LGBT discrimination law).
230
I don't understand why religious people can't stay out of our personal lives. I'm not LGBT but respect the right of everyone. No one is forcing them to ask the LGBT into their bedrooms; So, why are Republicans trying to impose their religious views on everyone. I hope all people around the US vote out these bigots and their supporters.
11
And I don't see why LGBT people can't stay out of religious people's lives.
Nobody seems to remember that this entire NC fight was started by an activist lesbian mayor (Jennifer Roberts) that jammed a ridiculous law down the throats of her townspeople. She didn't ask anybody's opinion, she just did it.
This society is living in an age of mass delusion. Trump may be a disaster waiting to happen but he's the only option in voting against this collective insanity that the psychotic Left is dragging us into.
Nobody seems to remember that this entire NC fight was started by an activist lesbian mayor (Jennifer Roberts) that jammed a ridiculous law down the throats of her townspeople. She didn't ask anybody's opinion, she just did it.
This society is living in an age of mass delusion. Trump may be a disaster waiting to happen but he's the only option in voting against this collective insanity that the psychotic Left is dragging us into.
3
Stu - No one is keeping you from practicing your religion. You can believe anything you want, go to any church you want etc. What you can't do is use your religion as an excuse to discriminate against people in public places and you can't insert your religion into public policy.
5
Gov. McCrory and the NC State Legislature steamrolled their local government to create this situation. Good for the NCAA, the NBA, Paypal, and so on, but when are we going to hear about what North Carolinians are doing to stop this trampling of rights?
342
In the November N.C. governors election race, the democratic opponent (Roy Cooper) to McCrory has built up a solid lead- around 6-9 points over the last series of polls.
HB2 is very unpopular in NC polls, so it's dragging McCrory down, as well as other RNC/McCrory scandals and controversy. For example, the state RNC was trying to restrict (minority) voting in this election by instructing Repub. members of election boards to limit voting hours. The republican house also passed voter ID laws in 2013. However these attempts has been struck down recently by the Federal Court of appeals and then Supreme Court (by a 4 to 4 tie). There are various other dumb scandals that McCrory is also involved in, such as the Duke Energy coal ash spill.
To be fair to the people of North Carolina, McCrory wasn't some right wing nut when he was elected governor. (The nuts are really in the statehouse partly because of redistricting- like the U.S. House) He was the former mayor of Charlotte, a progressive city. He supported public transportation and development, not bathroom laws. I think though as governor McCrory tried to play to very conservative voter districts in NC by signing HB2, and it has backfired on him.
HB2 is very unpopular in NC polls, so it's dragging McCrory down, as well as other RNC/McCrory scandals and controversy. For example, the state RNC was trying to restrict (minority) voting in this election by instructing Repub. members of election boards to limit voting hours. The republican house also passed voter ID laws in 2013. However these attempts has been struck down recently by the Federal Court of appeals and then Supreme Court (by a 4 to 4 tie). There are various other dumb scandals that McCrory is also involved in, such as the Duke Energy coal ash spill.
To be fair to the people of North Carolina, McCrory wasn't some right wing nut when he was elected governor. (The nuts are really in the statehouse partly because of redistricting- like the U.S. House) He was the former mayor of Charlotte, a progressive city. He supported public transportation and development, not bathroom laws. I think though as governor McCrory tried to play to very conservative voter districts in NC by signing HB2, and it has backfired on him.
10
We're voting. We're denouncing the idiocy that is Governor McCrazy and his cronies. Unfortunately, with McCrazy's gerrymandering and vote blocking, it's an uphill battle. It looks like Roy Cooper could beat McCrazy in November, though, so fingers crossed.
8
As Nat King Cole once sang, "the Twelfth of Never."
Ms. Mueller's comment about "acceptable" violence against women at Baylor makes an important point, but is still basically a "two wrongs make a right" argument.
17
I applaud the NCAA for its stand against a North Carolina law which has many more provisions to attack LGBTQ communities than the "bathroom" aspect.
I have not read, however, how the "birth certificate= bathroom" part of the law is to be enforced. Does Gov. McCrory require that everyone in NC--citizens and visitors--carry their original birth certificate?
I have not read, however, how the "birth certificate= bathroom" part of the law is to be enforced. Does Gov. McCrory require that everyone in NC--citizens and visitors--carry their original birth certificate?
109
Good for the NCAA for taking the steps needed. Shame on anyone for not promoting all aspects of human rights. It is 2016 for goodness sake. Do you seriously think there is something to be feared from the lgbt community? Do you not realize our society has many fine upstanding, service oriented citizens who are lgbt? Any movement to squelch this kind of behavior is applauded.
87
Thank you NCAA. You are a friend to freedom and justice. Bigots will be forced to be, at least publicly, less bigoted. Best previous example: Trump's running mate as governor of Indiana.
95
really? The NCAA which uses young men and women without paying them? Stop playing and you get financially thrown out of college. No, this is the NCAA bullying a state. You happen to agree with the cause, but that makes the NCAA no less an abusive organization.
--------------------------------------
But a spokeswoman for the North Carolina Republican Party, Kami Mueller, described the decision as “so absurd it’s almost comical.”
!!!
So, taking action to support gay rights is "absurd" and "almost comical"!
She went on...
“I wish the N.C.A.A. was this concerned about the women who were raped at Baylor,” Ms. Mueller said in a statement, referring to a recent scandal involving Baylor University’s football program. “Perhaps the N.C.A.A. should stop with their political peacocking — and instead focus their energies on making sure our nation’s collegiate athletes are safe, both on and off the field.”
Can't disagree with that, but it's not an either-or proposition. However, it'd be good if she looked in the mirror and asked what the Republican Party in NC and the nation is doing to support women's rights and not coddle elite athletes!
I'll wager that most Republicans in her state are NOT taking the lead on sexual assault.
------------------------------------
But a spokeswoman for the North Carolina Republican Party, Kami Mueller, described the decision as “so absurd it’s almost comical.”
!!!
So, taking action to support gay rights is "absurd" and "almost comical"!
She went on...
“I wish the N.C.A.A. was this concerned about the women who were raped at Baylor,” Ms. Mueller said in a statement, referring to a recent scandal involving Baylor University’s football program. “Perhaps the N.C.A.A. should stop with their political peacocking — and instead focus their energies on making sure our nation’s collegiate athletes are safe, both on and off the field.”
Can't disagree with that, but it's not an either-or proposition. However, it'd be good if she looked in the mirror and asked what the Republican Party in NC and the nation is doing to support women's rights and not coddle elite athletes!
I'll wager that most Republicans in her state are NOT taking the lead on sexual assault.
------------------------------------
272
Yes. And how could she possibly not see that her own statement indicts the law? To make sure "our nation's collegiate athletes are safe" you repeal a law that allows bias against them!
6
Kami Mueller should come out as someone who LOVES Phyllis Schafly and the retrograde hate she promoted.
6
No.
They're usually the ones committing the sexual assaults.
They're usually the ones committing the sexual assaults.
3
Governor McCrory signed the bill into law aiming to add to the list of actions confirming him as the philosophical heir to the late Senator Jesse Helms.
Governor McCrory and N.C. Republicans: proudly attempting to direct the state backwards toward the dark ages of ignorance and intolerance.
Governor McCrory and N.C. Republicans: proudly attempting to direct the state backwards toward the dark ages of ignorance and intolerance.
144
They're doing a fine job, too.
Yes NC usher in the debased and debauched values of progressive NYers! Please.
I have 7 brothers and sisters. We certainly shared the bathroom and many other things. I have 3 grown children who grew up the sharing everything. It seems to me to be a normal behavior. I wish the NC would not legislate segregation.
165
msringel0: wonderfully spot on comment. Yes, the GOP seems to be intent on "legislating segregation", weather it's telling people which bathroom they may use, when they can have access to vote or how they may use their reproductive organs. As we say in Detroit; "Step off".
3
Why stop now? This is a place where black students were assaulted for trying to eat. This is a place that elected Jesse Helms for decades. They are, if nothing else. consistent. Just a reminder: boycotts were the only thing that moved the needle for basic human rights in the South. It should not come as a surprise that it is a touchy subject now.
1
tea partiers painted themselves into a corner on this propaganda effort to tar the other side and gain votes and easy $. Like so much that fox news and the right wing react against (as our great protectors) the real world is so much more complicated and nuanced than their bumper sticker moments.
What is it with the South? What klnd of people settled there? 160 years ago to clang onto their right to own human slaves and they fought a bitter war for it, and now they still start a cultural war based on division and hate and again they are going to loose. First their voter suppression scheme gets exposed for what it is and now no one wants to play ball with them.
I hope the North Carolinians with a conscience and impoverished by their Christian, conservative leadership throws McCrory and his ilk into the dustbin of history.
I hope the North Carolinians with a conscience and impoverished by their Christian, conservative leadership throws McCrory and his ilk into the dustbin of history.
327
While I completely agree with your opinions, I take issue with your comment about "the South." Yes, the South is vile for its open racism and homophobia. No argument there, but by pointing out the South, way too many elsewhere see themselves as free of those opinions because they aren't in/from the South. Racism, sexism, homophobia is EVERYWHERE. Go ask the school kids in CT how they like their enlightened Northern school funding laws.
8
It is true: As a country we don't have to continually swat down the brazenly discriminatory impulses of, say, North Dakota ot Vermont. A couple hundred years should be enough time for the South to get with the program, already. What is wrong with them?
4
Very good question. I suspect that many are allergic to live and let live. The South is certainly not a bastion of virtues although many of inhabitants see themselves as defending "values".
4
It's the 21st century and this is what officially sanctioned bigotry in America buys. Once a lonely beacon of intelligent progression in the Old Confederacy, North Carolina has descended backward into the new Alabama. May the voters of the great State of NC see the error of embracing a 19th century political ethic and rejoin a 21st century civilization of progressive tolerance. That's where the North Carolina I know belongs.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
178
It's hard to be "backwards" when in the 19th century there wasn't the strict binary that solidified at the beginning of the 20th...watch the gross historical assumptions made to denigrate a certain geographical area. "Just a bunch of deplorables"
1
If the burning cross and white robe fit.... How is David Duke, anyway? It appears that calling out white racism is an issue, but allowing Trump to continue denigrating people of color is all OK in your book. Even a Gold Star mother!
The hastily approved (special session, no debate) HB2 resulted from either blatant bigotry, appalling ignorance of transgenders, or both.
Governor McCrory, who probably knew better, signed the bill because he needed the far right votes to get re-elected this year, and didn't want to offend them.
But his vote may instead take him down. I hope it does.
Governor McCrory, who probably knew better, signed the bill because he needed the far right votes to get re-elected this year, and didn't want to offend them.
But his vote may instead take him down. I hope it does.
442
Agreed. I want to wipe that smarmy good-old-boy smile off his lying face every time I see it.
5
It's good to see a person's expedient, unethical behavior boomarang on them.
4
Good to see the Nation standing up to discrimination and a bad law. North Carolina should be avoided in every sense of the word until the discriminatory law is repealed and the actions to suppress the vote are ended. You should not spend time or money in the state, you should not knowingly purchase anything produced in the state, and you should not watch the sports teams from the state on television.
130
That's any easy stance to take but in reality that hurts so many of us that have businesses that depend on tourists and other visitors spending in our state. There's many of us that do not agree with the law and didn't vote for it and push for repeal but until that happens are we to loose our businesses for something that we - to date - have not been able to change because of travel bans and people staying away? Isn't that discriminatory?
4
Says someone that doesn't live there. It's nice to see how "Liberal" you are with other people's money and livelihoods. Sounds like bigotry to me.
1
Joe Taxpayer - I sympathize with you but money seems to be the only language your politicians will listen to. Why aren't NC businesses banding together and lobbying to get these stupid laws overturned?
4
A good step - now if they will give this sort of action real bite, they should remove NCAA rights to have athletics programs from the schools in NC- allowing those athletes to immediately move to the school of their choice without losing eligibility. That would actually get their attention because parents, students, athletes would be up in arms.
11
Some questions:
1) Is the law being enforced?
2) Did the law's supporters ever intend to enforce it, or was it just a cynical play to the state's homophobes?
3) Has anyone been charged and/or convicted?
4) Any estimate on the $ loss to NC?
5) Has Coach K been asked for comment? Has he commented?
6) Is there any movement in the state legislature to repeal the law?
1) Is the law being enforced?
2) Did the law's supporters ever intend to enforce it, or was it just a cynical play to the state's homophobes?
3) Has anyone been charged and/or convicted?
4) Any estimate on the $ loss to NC?
5) Has Coach K been asked for comment? Has he commented?
6) Is there any movement in the state legislature to repeal the law?
11
Well folks trying to get regress in NC courts for labor discrimination had their cases scuttled. So yes it is working as planned. The bathroom part of the bill was just meant to energize the base of the Republican Party so they would vote in November.
1
And the Republican response? The decision of the NCAA is "so absurd it's almost comical".
Keep laughing, boys.
Keep laughing, boys.
115
I went to a D-III university. I have never understood the obsession people have with college basketball and football and the license those sports are given to influence admissions, policies, and grading within colleges.
That said, I'm so proud of the NCAA for twisting the proverbial dagger on North Carolina's absurd, prima-facie discrimination "law." Here's hoping this puts the ultimate pressure on NC's leaders ("leaders") to rethink their actions and the ugly brand they've cast upon their state.
That said, I'm so proud of the NCAA for twisting the proverbial dagger on North Carolina's absurd, prima-facie discrimination "law." Here's hoping this puts the ultimate pressure on NC's leaders ("leaders") to rethink their actions and the ugly brand they've cast upon their state.
71
In all fairness, is the NCAA going to allow a transgender athlete to participate as which ever gender they identify with in his/her sport of expertise. I doubt it. Political correctness out the window.
8
There is a transgender athlete competing for Harvard's swim team right now.
9
There is a trans-man swimming on the mens' team at Yale. Originally admitted with athletic scholarship as a woman. May be others as well
As for professional sports, remember Renee Richards who played women's professional tennis quite a few years back?
There is also at lest one trans-man competing in triathlon, not sure how high a level he has accomplished.
As for professional sports, remember Renee Richards who played women's professional tennis quite a few years back?
There is also at lest one trans-man competing in triathlon, not sure how high a level he has accomplished.
3
Kami, the NCAA should be concerned about women raped at Baylor. However, that does not mean that systematic discrimination by North Carolina is not a serious concern, not to mention your party's concerted effort to suppress voting. Your comments and attitude only reinforce an infamous racial history. And to think, you are the spokesperson for your party!
87
I'm sure the NCAA is concerned about Baylor.....as well as the other 100,000 crimes, misdeeds, recruiting violations, building code violations, OSHA violations, EPA violations, recruiting violations, bad taste mascots and all the insults, slurs, bad calls and other stuff associated with college sports and their venues.
Perhaps now that the NCAA is focused on bias and discrimination it could look into doing something about the systemic racism, sexism, and classism in its own policies that lead to consistent abuse and mistreat student athletes that it supposedly protects?
9
To use a word that's recently in vogue, H.B. 2 is deplorable. Good for the N.C.A.A.
100
This is a prime example of a party's First Amendment right of freedom and of association, or not. NC's government officials may object to the actions of the people,and other entities that have declined to appear or do business in their state. But it wasn't like this was foreseeable. Time for the good people of NC to eschew the discriminatory and unevolved policies of some of their representatives and vote them out.
37
An alternative to pulling all these events out of North Carolina, and one that would show the bigotry of the right in a brighter light, would have been for the LGBTQ community to have flooded the venues, cheered on the teams, and used the toilets they wished to use, regardless of the prunes (and prudes) guarding the thrones. A sit-in, if you will.
12
The passage of HB2, in my opinion, was a carefully constructed political move. Governor McCrory was facing growing opposition in his home city of Charlotte and Mecklenbury County because of his stand in favor of making I77 a toll road. Many conservatives in the area did not like this idea. His position was getting weaker. HB2 was partially conceived and concocted almost overnight after the Charlotte city council passed a city statute making discrimination against transgender and gays illegal. McCrory and the Republicans thought HB2 would be popular with conservatives and restore his support. After all, safety for our kids in the bathrooms is more important that saving a few dollars on travel to and from work.
This is how Republicans formulate much of their policy. And it often works in a state that elected Jesse Helms for years.
Give me back the times of governors like Terry Sanford, Luther Hodges, James Martin, James Holshouser, and Jim Hunt. Republicans and Democrats...all good men. Today's politicians are all about themselves and their parties rather than about what will improve the lives of NC residents.
This is how Republicans formulate much of their policy. And it often works in a state that elected Jesse Helms for years.
Give me back the times of governors like Terry Sanford, Luther Hodges, James Martin, James Holshouser, and Jim Hunt. Republicans and Democrats...all good men. Today's politicians are all about themselves and their parties rather than about what will improve the lives of NC residents.
234
The voters spoke and these leaders paid notice. Why spew this hate?
1
HB2 sounds more like a Kansan Kobach idea, and I should know; the bum shoved SB1070 down our throats here in AZ, but we also recalled the Senate leader who delivered us that deviltry. Yee HAH!
1
A private sector corporation is reacting to over-reach by the government.
The NCAA is executing its Constitutional freedom of speech.
The free market - not government bureaucracy - has spoken.
Another state will use their state's rights to create a more business-friendly environment to attract this company's revenue.
A corporation is a person and is entitled to its own religious views.
...and yet every Republican politician in North Carolina is aghast now that a company has demonstrated the very creed that the GOP has been preaching for years.
The NCAA is executing its Constitutional freedom of speech.
The free market - not government bureaucracy - has spoken.
Another state will use their state's rights to create a more business-friendly environment to attract this company's revenue.
A corporation is a person and is entitled to its own religious views.
...and yet every Republican politician in North Carolina is aghast now that a company has demonstrated the very creed that the GOP has been preaching for years.
261
OK, but totally disagree with the "corporations as persons" creed. Unless of course the Supreme Court is now in the business of rewriting anatomy books to include huge box-like structures that are "fed" and get fat on the actual living people who are force-fed into its doors every day, and spat out as waste at closing time.
1
Which, of course, they are. (Citizens United ring a bell)?
Wow! Well done. I wish I could recommend this several times!
1
The NCAA ought to think more about paying the athletes it exploits and less about dubious social agendas.
15
I completely agree with you. It seems "Trendy" for corporations to pick a side. They need to keep their nose out of social agendas.
2
Fighting discrimination is hardly a "dubious social agenda".
13
Keeping men out of the ladies' room is hardly discrimination. Regarding marriage as an institution including one man and one woman is hardly discrimination either.
1
NYT. Follow up by investigating the decision by Marist College in Poughkeepsie and its new president, David Yellin, to replace Albany and travel to play at Duke in November. Yellin claims he's against the law, but doesn't believe in a boycott. There's more to this.
11
Speaking of Duke, has the University agreed to enforce the NC law on it's campus? I would think it might help if the Blue Devils acted like angels and made a statement that they will defy this law.
Hurray for the N.C.A.A!
And about that stupid bathroom law:
Having lived in Asheville for 11 years with plenty of friends and acquaintances in the transgender community, I would scream and run, fearing rape or molestation, if a stranger who looked like my closest woman-to-man, bald, bearded trans friend appeared in an convenience shop ladies' room. I would not wait and to see a birth certificate. So this law makes it possible for any man to waltz into any ladies' room, and no one can say a word.
On the other hand, man-to-woman transvestites and transgender people have been using ladies' rooms forever, and, maybe I'm missing the headlines, but I just don't hear about rapes or other offenses coming from that situation. But I do imagine that MTF trans women (or those who are biologically still men but dress as women) would suffer massive abuse if forced to use a men's room.
In the meantime, a little nonviolent protest in safe places, preferably in groups. Ladies (born or transformed): when it's intermission or half-time at a crowded show or sporting event, don't bother standing in the inevitable line trailing out from the ladies' room as the men pass by quickly to their facilities. Just go into the mens' room as if you own the place. if anyone blinks, say you were born a man. Take plenty of time to adjust your Spanx in the stall, reapply makeup in front of the mirror, spritz on some perfume and hairspray. Those bigoted men will get that law off the books right away.
And about that stupid bathroom law:
Having lived in Asheville for 11 years with plenty of friends and acquaintances in the transgender community, I would scream and run, fearing rape or molestation, if a stranger who looked like my closest woman-to-man, bald, bearded trans friend appeared in an convenience shop ladies' room. I would not wait and to see a birth certificate. So this law makes it possible for any man to waltz into any ladies' room, and no one can say a word.
On the other hand, man-to-woman transvestites and transgender people have been using ladies' rooms forever, and, maybe I'm missing the headlines, but I just don't hear about rapes or other offenses coming from that situation. But I do imagine that MTF trans women (or those who are biologically still men but dress as women) would suffer massive abuse if forced to use a men's room.
In the meantime, a little nonviolent protest in safe places, preferably in groups. Ladies (born or transformed): when it's intermission or half-time at a crowded show or sporting event, don't bother standing in the inevitable line trailing out from the ladies' room as the men pass by quickly to their facilities. Just go into the mens' room as if you own the place. if anyone blinks, say you were born a man. Take plenty of time to adjust your Spanx in the stall, reapply makeup in front of the mirror, spritz on some perfume and hairspray. Those bigoted men will get that law off the books right away.
84
I can help you in few areas. First, you should learn to avoid situations that aid criminal activity. We all learn about these as children. A man or transgender woman in a convenience store bathroom probably means the men's room is out of order. Conduct your business and exit the bathroom re-joining the dozen people in the convenience store 10 feet away. Second, before you write stuff like asking for someone's birth certificate, consider whether you would run home and get yours if someone asked you. Would you also provide your credit cards on demand by some random person? Third, don't get too upset with short lines in the men's room. You answered your own complaint when you talked about adjusting Spanx.
4
wow ... I have to congratulate the NCAA ... sticking to what's right and not participating in wrong
103
The NCAA and assorted corporations have now become "revolutionary cadres" crusading for human rights?
Even change is changing...
Even change is changing...
23
Actions have consequences.
21
Exactly what actions did the NCAA affiliated schools or students engage in to result in this punishment? NOTHING. Perhaps people like yourself would like to be personally punished for the actions of your employer or local government?
After all, actions have consequences you know.
After all, actions have consequences you know.
3
The action of the North Carolina legislature had consequences. The schools and students will still have their championships in other states.
8
To quote Isaac Newton's third law of motion - "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". It's sad than in the 21st century, North Carolina is falling into the dark ages by rescinding the anti-discrimination laws against a minority of people. As such, I applaud the N.C.A.A. for its' actions of moving the Championship events out of state. This reaction may not affect North Carolina very much, but taking a stand against discrimination of any kind is noteworthy.
380
I'd love to see how much you applaud if your business was dependent upon the revenue from such events and you had no part in that legislation and didn't agree with it. Since you're personally immune from the effects, it's easy to "applaud".
This action is of course, completely hypocritical and discriminatory. That'll be lost on the Left though.
This action is of course, completely hypocritical and discriminatory. That'll be lost on the Left though.
1
There is likely to be a tipping point when too many prestige events and too much money leaves the state, forcing a change in public policy.
3
Stu, maybe those business owners, who traditionally vote (R), will convince themselves and their friends to pull the lever for (D) next time, right?
5