Not too late to have the Sixth Fleet engage the Russian ships firing missiles at the rubble in Aleppo. Right, Roger?
7
The US got owned by the Arabs when America stuck its nose into the Suez crisis and announced that the big boys of the USA and the Soviet Union had come to play in the Near East.
The French and the Poms then slunk off with their tails between their legs, The problem is that Americans, who can barely find Syria on a map, haven't had any more idea how to comport themselves in that part of the world than they did in IndoChina.
Let's face it, short of total war which America does very well, fortunately for the rest of us, the USA usually hasn't got a clue how to handle the minor league contests. NATO bombing the Serb aggressors eventually worked out well for the besieged Sarajevans, but it was probably more by good luck than design.
The French and the Poms then slunk off with their tails between their legs, The problem is that Americans, who can barely find Syria on a map, haven't had any more idea how to comport themselves in that part of the world than they did in IndoChina.
Let's face it, short of total war which America does very well, fortunately for the rest of us, the USA usually hasn't got a clue how to handle the minor league contests. NATO bombing the Serb aggressors eventually worked out well for the besieged Sarajevans, but it was probably more by good luck than design.
5
The kind of intervention Cohen is talking about would mean our country going to war in Syria, with aerial bombing and thousands of ground troops. That's the only thing which would have made a difference. The American people did not want to get involved in another war. President Obama knew this, which is why he decided to not push for intervention.
14
The US policy by both the Obama administration and the Republicans was to arm and train rebels and provide air support. The President also encouraged an uprising in Syria.
We have made mistake after mistake from the Bay of Pigs to Vietnam to Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria and Yemen.
The US needs a policy of inaction not action. DO NO HARM. Bush and Obama backed by bipartisan support for using our military and CIA has been an absolute disaster. It's time to stop exporting civll conflict, weapons and training and provide hospital care, schools and economic development.
We have made mistake after mistake from the Bay of Pigs to Vietnam to Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria and Yemen.
The US needs a policy of inaction not action. DO NO HARM. Bush and Obama backed by bipartisan support for using our military and CIA has been an absolute disaster. It's time to stop exporting civll conflict, weapons and training and provide hospital care, schools and economic development.
10
The Mideast was never set up for nations. Let them go back to being tribes. You cannot force them to take Western Civ 314 and jump into the 21st Century.
4
The US should not further engage militarily in the ME- and especially not in the Syrian civil war.
We are providing arms to the rebels and some air support. But Obama is the leader of the US and is doing what the American people want- no more military involvement in the ME.
Give me one example where military involvement in the ME hasn't backfired on us a hundred fold?
I am sorry for the people of Aleppo but the US is not the world's policeman and not the hired guns. We don't have the will nor the money. We just don't want to send our troops into yet another ME quagmire where there are no good guys and no one ever is grateful for our efforts and hate us anyway.
We are providing arms to the rebels and some air support. But Obama is the leader of the US and is doing what the American people want- no more military involvement in the ME.
Give me one example where military involvement in the ME hasn't backfired on us a hundred fold?
I am sorry for the people of Aleppo but the US is not the world's policeman and not the hired guns. We don't have the will nor the money. We just don't want to send our troops into yet another ME quagmire where there are no good guys and no one ever is grateful for our efforts and hate us anyway.
10
Some Americans wanted the US military out of the middle east. They go it. Now they want us to use air power to win the war in Syria. Won't work and can't work. You still need boots on the ground - and Americans dying.
5
If Syria were still a colonial of France or Great Britain, everyone there would be better off. Same for Libya, Iraq and other places.
2
It's all very well for Mr. Cohen to issue well-meaning pronouncements. But he seems blind to the bigger picture, The nation is exhausted from two long and largely fruitless wars. (One of which Mr. Cohen foolishly urged upon us.) We don't have the appetite or money or, frankly, the moral authority for another. We must choose our battles carefully and the president is wise to steer clear of one that could quickly flare up into god knows what. And what would our appearance on this complex playing field achieve but more misery? We need to focus our efforts on diplomacy, humanitarian aid and evacuation of those in harm's way.
11
America doesn't want part of this mess anymore. We have lost interest, are broke and need to attend to problems here.
We cannot police the entire world no after how sad it is. The world is simply too far gone....we all now it to be true.
Stop calling for us to do more. We do enough, more than enough.
We cannot police the entire world no after how sad it is. The world is simply too far gone....we all now it to be true.
Stop calling for us to do more. We do enough, more than enough.
8
Please Mr. Cohen, pick up a rifle and go fight in Syria. No one will stop you. Send your own children into this place and, if by chance, you defeat Assad, then please set up a new government able to govern the disparate factions there peacefully, with no sectarian recriminations or terrorism. You can build on all the other wonderful examples of American success in bringing peace and harmony to the region.
Your history lesson conveniently neglected to mention that the road from Sarajevo to Aleppo took a detour through Baghdad.
Your history lesson conveniently neglected to mention that the road from Sarajevo to Aleppo took a detour through Baghdad.
10
Obama and Hillary's foreign policy disasters have led to orders of magnitude more suffering that Bush's attempts.
4
Over three years ago, I cited -- in a letter to the Washington Post -- my grandson's Bar Mitzwah theme, in which he warned of the peril of remaining indifferent. Then, as now, Pres. Obama's steadfast unwillingness -- with, at best, lame excuses -- to face up to the Syrian bloodbath and refugee crisis -- serves as a painful reminder of how political opportunism, rather than leadership, can morph into indifference.
In 1939, I was shielded from the gathering Holocaust threat as one of 10,000 Kindertransport kids who gained special entry in a welcoming Britain. In the same year, US legislators, supported by the State Department, overwhelmingly rejected any such policy. FDR, as our present leader, managed to look the other way.
In 1939, I was shielded from the gathering Holocaust threat as one of 10,000 Kindertransport kids who gained special entry in a welcoming Britain. In the same year, US legislators, supported by the State Department, overwhelmingly rejected any such policy. FDR, as our present leader, managed to look the other way.
2
Bush set fire to the mid east ,Obama and Ms Clinton have been throwing gasoline on it ever since.We need to concentrate right here at home . Let them solve it , or not.
3
ALL the Syrian men who would fight for their country abandoned it instead. The world witnessed the exodus. Hundreds of thousands of men marching in column to Europe. The same men needed to overcome the troubles and fight for their own families and countries.
The world was shown a few dead babies and abused women and the men marched on. Now is the time for EUrope to march these same men right back, in column to reclaim their country.
Let them sacrifice themselves instead of just seeing the West put their sons and daughters lives on the line.
The world was shown a few dead babies and abused women and the men marched on. Now is the time for EUrope to march these same men right back, in column to reclaim their country.
Let them sacrifice themselves instead of just seeing the West put their sons and daughters lives on the line.
4
A little upset with all of the commentators who think complain that the US shouldn't be solving the world's problems, as though the only options are a misguided, botched invasion - a la Iraq, say - and doing nothing. There are all sorts of other ways it could go. It is possible to stop a genocide, to save hundreds of thousands of lives, without condemning a region to the instability that has ravaged post-invasion Iraq. There are ways to do these things that aren't horrible, and if you just wallow in past mistakes you'll never take a pass at improving your strategies in the future.
3
List and explain the other ways. Be sure to include your analysis of potential unintended consequences and your suggestions for their mitigation. Finally, put down your laptop and cell phone, cancel your social media accounts and pull on your desert boots, strap on your rifle, and go fight. Oh, before you go, you'll need to decide for which faction to fight.
11
The problem with your approach is that if we help topple Assad the victors will be Islamist allies of al-Qaeda (and for some rebels al-Qaeda themselves). That's a big problem, and one for which I see no persuasive solution. The idea that we can shepherd in a peaceful, moderate Syrian government after Assad falls is the kind of hubris that has plagued our foreign policy for the past 30 years.
10
Aleppo is not the symbol of American retreat, it is the symbol of how dysfunctional the Middle East is. Maybe Rogen Cohen should look to his homeland of Britain when he wants to lay blame for the Middle East mess. It was the colonial powers that drew up the maps that created "countries" that had no bearing to the cultures and people in those areas. Please stop making it America's fault that we don't solve the messes that others have created.
14
The “Established Mainstream Republicans” and “Established Mainstream Democrats” started all of the “Politically Correct” wars that the USA has fought and then (or tied) lost since WWII.
Korea was tied. Vietnam was lost when the USA declared ourselves the winner left that nation to the communists. Iraq was conquered twice and then given back twice when the USA re-installed a Muslim government similar to the Muslim government that the USA defeated in battle two times. Gen Patton said that he did not ever want to pay for the same real estate twice! This allowed or caused the creation of ISIS. In Afghanistan we spent a lot of blood and treasure defeating Islam and then installed a Muslim government to govern that nation.
I think that Ronald Regan did invade and conquer some small Caribbean island whose name I cannot recall.
Islam is the Greatest enemy of the USA today
Korea was tied. Vietnam was lost when the USA declared ourselves the winner left that nation to the communists. Iraq was conquered twice and then given back twice when the USA re-installed a Muslim government similar to the Muslim government that the USA defeated in battle two times. Gen Patton said that he did not ever want to pay for the same real estate twice! This allowed or caused the creation of ISIS. In Afghanistan we spent a lot of blood and treasure defeating Islam and then installed a Muslim government to govern that nation.
I think that Ronald Regan did invade and conquer some small Caribbean island whose name I cannot recall.
Islam is the Greatest enemy of the USA today
2
Hard to hard to miss the Orwellian way this piece leaves out all facts that don't support Cohen's interventionism. The Assad regime is brutal, no question, but before the uprising which was supported by the US and the Gulf Arab dictatorships all the different sects could live in peace. They couldn't criticize the government or Assad's goons would torture them, but there was peace. Now thanks to the uprising there is a multi-sided civil war where the " moderates" side with al Qaeda, commit massacres, and bombard civilian areas. Roughly 100,000 Syrian soldiers and armed pro government militia have been killed, so obviously there has been outside support. The rebels broke the latest ceasefire. And if there is a rebel victory the jihadists wil take power and make Assad look like a Boy Scout.
Does Cohen mention any of this? No. Did Cohen support the Iraqi invasion? Yes. Has Cohen ever learned anything about the destructiveness of people convinced that their acts of violence are redemptive? No, not when it is violence he supports.
And is Cohen writing about our support for Saudi bombing of civilians in Yemen? Of course not.
Does Cohen mention any of this? No. Did Cohen support the Iraqi invasion? Yes. Has Cohen ever learned anything about the destructiveness of people convinced that their acts of violence are redemptive? No, not when it is violence he supports.
And is Cohen writing about our support for Saudi bombing of civilians in Yemen? Of course not.
14
The argument "this is really bad, we have to do something, ANYTHING we could do is better than doing nothing" is the argument for voting for Trump. Do you agree, Mr. Cohen?
You describe the atrocities of Assad. Should we ally ourselves with Daesh against Assad? Provide Daesh with better weapons so they can confront Assad's Russian enablers?
What do you think should be done, and what makes you think it will work?
You describe the atrocities of Assad. Should we ally ourselves with Daesh against Assad? Provide Daesh with better weapons so they can confront Assad's Russian enablers?
What do you think should be done, and what makes you think it will work?
9
In 2007, Chuck Hagel, then commander in Iraq - later US Secretary of Defense - stated "People say we're not fighting for oil. Of course we are. What the hell do you think they're talking about? We're not there for figs. "
In 2014, the US, based on the work of her fracking engineers, passed Saudia Arabia and Russia to become the worlds largest oil producer.
That freed, the US from the need to meddle in the Middle East and she
retreated.
But people can't handle the truth - the diminishing US need for Mid East oil.
Obama conducts real politics, at it's glaring worst, and his refusal of the US to pick up the pieces she broke is morally infuriating - given all her Presidents lofty rhetoric.
That is deplorable. Yes.
In 2014, the US, based on the work of her fracking engineers, passed Saudia Arabia and Russia to become the worlds largest oil producer.
That freed, the US from the need to meddle in the Middle East and she
retreated.
But people can't handle the truth - the diminishing US need for Mid East oil.
Obama conducts real politics, at it's glaring worst, and his refusal of the US to pick up the pieces she broke is morally infuriating - given all her Presidents lofty rhetoric.
That is deplorable. Yes.
2
Mr. Roger COHEN: So exactly have you said this; so deeply have you pondered this; so correctly have you analyzed the chessboard of the past 5 years. You and the UN minister assigned to humanitarian needs, (name: Jacub ul-Hallou) who just retired, are the two voices today that hit the nail squarely on the head. Each of you echo the words and feelings the suffering Syrians would have used about both the causes of international failure -- ie, Obama's red line retreat (which ul-Hallou called "lack of political guts"); and the world's -- ie, the UN and mainstream media -- failure to succesfully deliver humanitarian aid. Your knowledge of history and your ethical compass serve you well. THANK YOU.
2
My hunch is that the Syria war will end with a whimper, not with a bang, fairly soon. Assad, with Russian help, will pretty soon look unbeatable. He'll then "peel off" rebel soldiers, one by one, with various enticements -- amnesty, cash payments to get re-established in civilian life, whatever -- and the "good rebels" will quietly, but in large numbers, lay down their arms and go home.
That will leave the die-hards: al Nusra and ISIS. Undoubtedly a few "good rebels" will shift to al Nusra and ISIS rather than lay down their arms, but that won't change the result. Those who advocate intervention will be left with three choices: Assad, ISIS and al Nusra.
Given those three choices, who should the US back, if anyone? If not Assad, might we be wiser just to save our money and blood -- stay out of it just for once?
That will leave the die-hards: al Nusra and ISIS. Undoubtedly a few "good rebels" will shift to al Nusra and ISIS rather than lay down their arms, but that won't change the result. Those who advocate intervention will be left with three choices: Assad, ISIS and al Nusra.
Given those three choices, who should the US back, if anyone? If not Assad, might we be wiser just to save our money and blood -- stay out of it just for once?
6
Why is it always the United States responsibility to intervene in these war-torn situations while other countries sit on the sidelines and watch? Why aren't the countries in the Middle East such as Saudi Arabia fighting this battle in addition to others closer to the region? Why must American boys and girls shed blood, sweat and tears and then receive no thanks from our government? We saw what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan and the thousands of lives lost and even more lives ruined forever.
I think this is one of the few areas President Obama did the right thing and not put human lives in harms way. We are a generous and caring nation but we must not be foolish and get involved in areas where we are not wanted or appreciated.
We can send money and provide weapons but let's not lose more young lives to a never ending battle. The Middle East will always be at war but we do not have to.
I think this is one of the few areas President Obama did the right thing and not put human lives in harms way. We are a generous and caring nation but we must not be foolish and get involved in areas where we are not wanted or appreciated.
We can send money and provide weapons but let's not lose more young lives to a never ending battle. The Middle East will always be at war but we do not have to.
7
I embarrassed myself by writing a comment to the NYT regarding Obama's mysterious policy towards Iran. I got my billions of dollars all mixed up. It was the ransom money that some claimed we "owed" Iran and would have inevitably been forced by some global authority to pay. That assumes Trump will not be president as he likely would pay them nothing.
I notice that 170 readers approve of Tim C's comment blaming Bush and Cheney for Obama's haplessness regards Syria. Underlying that is the tacit assumption that conservatives insisted that America over-react to 9/11 by invading various places, and that Obama capriciously abandoning Iraq in 2011 had nothing to do with the rise of ISIS.
Now that ISIS is being squeezed out of Iraq and Syria mainly because Iran nd Russia have much different rules of engagement when fighting than does the USA anymore, we can expect a diaspora of ISIS sympathizers and outright agents to flood the USA as President Hillary welcomes them.
I think that Ben Rhodes had it right. The mainstream media is just a mindless blob whose first priority is to elect Hillary and continue blaming Bush. The blob will believe any lie, will repeat and amplify any misinformation and crafty distortion as if it is gospel from the burning bush.
Journalism is dead. Long live journalism! Bah, the only thing that will cure Democrat intellectual corruption is another, even more disastrous, 9/11 on their watch.
Should it happen in the next 80 days, Mr. Trump becomes POTUS.
I notice that 170 readers approve of Tim C's comment blaming Bush and Cheney for Obama's haplessness regards Syria. Underlying that is the tacit assumption that conservatives insisted that America over-react to 9/11 by invading various places, and that Obama capriciously abandoning Iraq in 2011 had nothing to do with the rise of ISIS.
Now that ISIS is being squeezed out of Iraq and Syria mainly because Iran nd Russia have much different rules of engagement when fighting than does the USA anymore, we can expect a diaspora of ISIS sympathizers and outright agents to flood the USA as President Hillary welcomes them.
I think that Ben Rhodes had it right. The mainstream media is just a mindless blob whose first priority is to elect Hillary and continue blaming Bush. The blob will believe any lie, will repeat and amplify any misinformation and crafty distortion as if it is gospel from the burning bush.
Journalism is dead. Long live journalism! Bah, the only thing that will cure Democrat intellectual corruption is another, even more disastrous, 9/11 on their watch.
Should it happen in the next 80 days, Mr. Trump becomes POTUS.
3
Bush2 was involved in the Iraq withdrawal.
3
Better late than never:
"Amazing how the people of the United States can complain about staying out of another country, when they created the worst disasters in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq when they got involved."
Who knows, though? Since our interventions in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq didn't work out so well, maybe intervention in Syria would be different. We're about due for some good luck, after all. And if we guess wrong, again, what the heck? Probably worth a roll of the dice since Syrians, not Americans, will inevitably bear most of the suffering.
"Amazing how the people of the United States can complain about staying out of another country, when they created the worst disasters in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq when they got involved."
Who knows, though? Since our interventions in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq didn't work out so well, maybe intervention in Syria would be different. We're about due for some good luck, after all. And if we guess wrong, again, what the heck? Probably worth a roll of the dice since Syrians, not Americans, will inevitably bear most of the suffering.
3
The complete inaction ( on anything ) in Congress is why Americans believe the country is headed in the wrong direction.
Where is the real Republican "leadership" on major domestic and foreign issues? Are they waiting for President Trump to negotiate?
Where is the real Republican "leadership" on major domestic and foreign issues? Are they waiting for President Trump to negotiate?
1
We can believe in Mr. Cohen's advocacy when he puts himself or his loved ones on the front line of a battle to save a bunch of fractious people who have been fighting each other for centuries. If Iraq can teach us anything, it's that the Middle East consists of layer upon layer of conflict that cannot be resolved by defeating one set of combatants, because another will arise to replace it.
The US might be best served by backing Russia and Assad to put an end to the conflict rather than make Syria pay the price of continuing it. That's horrible, but it has a name: realpolitik.
The US might be best served by backing Russia and Assad to put an end to the conflict rather than make Syria pay the price of continuing it. That's horrible, but it has a name: realpolitik.
6
Some of the victims in Aleppo could well have been killed or injured by our bombs, drones or arms supplied by the United States.
7
"No outcome in Syria could be worse than the current one."
Really??? Does not March 20, 2003 (Invasion time!) ring a bell in this columnist's mind? Thanks, Bush advisors, for the 'worse case' certitude.
It's become a mantra of op ed columnists to proclaim "the worst", "the most", "the unprecedented" with little allegiance to the context of history. That Obama, bowing to pressure from the neocons, established a 'Come on! I dare you!' posture with Syria is his major failure... of reason: In the parlance of these times; he succumbed to Trumpism.
Those opinion writers who would point to the chaos, degradation or depravity awash in the Middle East, Eastern Europe, Russia, North Korea, Sudan, etc, as demanding or being the consequence of U.S. intervention? Well done. You've gotten your cake and eaten it too.
The saddest part about your critique is that it has merit in the recounting of historical events and reactions. But like a weatherman, you can only suppose. The globe has a sickness and suffers from an ideology that spreads beyond any border or capitol. You evangelize with 20th century moralism, without consideration of 21st century borderless realities and consequences.
It's "No outcome...could be worse" that play so well to the receptive minds of undereducated, underprivileged, desperate or frightened people. It works for ISIS. Worked for Brexit. Seems to be working for Trump, too.
So, Mr. Cohen; which crisis facing us today is the worst it will ever be?
Really??? Does not March 20, 2003 (Invasion time!) ring a bell in this columnist's mind? Thanks, Bush advisors, for the 'worse case' certitude.
It's become a mantra of op ed columnists to proclaim "the worst", "the most", "the unprecedented" with little allegiance to the context of history. That Obama, bowing to pressure from the neocons, established a 'Come on! I dare you!' posture with Syria is his major failure... of reason: In the parlance of these times; he succumbed to Trumpism.
Those opinion writers who would point to the chaos, degradation or depravity awash in the Middle East, Eastern Europe, Russia, North Korea, Sudan, etc, as demanding or being the consequence of U.S. intervention? Well done. You've gotten your cake and eaten it too.
The saddest part about your critique is that it has merit in the recounting of historical events and reactions. But like a weatherman, you can only suppose. The globe has a sickness and suffers from an ideology that spreads beyond any border or capitol. You evangelize with 20th century moralism, without consideration of 21st century borderless realities and consequences.
It's "No outcome...could be worse" that play so well to the receptive minds of undereducated, underprivileged, desperate or frightened people. It works for ISIS. Worked for Brexit. Seems to be working for Trump, too.
So, Mr. Cohen; which crisis facing us today is the worst it will ever be?
5
One thing is for sure: if this president or the next one takes this advice and sends American troops to fight in Syria's civil war, it won't be Roger Cohen's kids risking their lives.
12
The Middle East has been at war since Cain slew Able. Apparently they love war, leave them to it.
4
The article ignores the fact that Syrian Civil war is much more complex than the war yugoslavia with parties that have intention and will and probably the capabilities to hit Europe once their civil war in Syria is done.
5
A war only continues if both sides are unwilling to stop. An alternative view of the situation in Aleppo is that the opposition groups are holding the civilian population as hostages in what is clearly a lost cause. If they sued for peace, couldn't they save all of these civilian lives? Furthermore, could it be that articles like this one actually encourage the opposition groups to hold out in the hope of western intervention?
I suspect the leadership on both sides (ignoring ISIS, etc.) believe that if they capitulate they will be imprisoned and sentenced to death. To end the conflict, we need to convince them otherwise.
I suspect the leadership on both sides (ignoring ISIS, etc.) believe that if they capitulate they will be imprisoned and sentenced to death. To end the conflict, we need to convince them otherwise.
1
So much for Obama's "smart" power.
1
Oh please!
"If the American populace had risen up as one and demanded action in Syria, demanded enforcement of the red line..."
I'll bet dollars to donuts I paid a lot closer attention than you did to whether there was evidence that Assad "crossed the red line." I even plotted missile trajectories -- how about you? I concluded there was substantial evidence that rebels had used chemical weapons, but not substantial evidence that Assad had. Plenty of allegations -- that I'll grant -- just no substantial evidence.
So what should we have done? Intervened to help the rebels who'd used chemical weapons? Intervened to help Assad? Or what, exactly?
"If the American populace had risen up as one and demanded action in Syria, demanded enforcement of the red line..."
I'll bet dollars to donuts I paid a lot closer attention than you did to whether there was evidence that Assad "crossed the red line." I even plotted missile trajectories -- how about you? I concluded there was substantial evidence that rebels had used chemical weapons, but not substantial evidence that Assad had. Plenty of allegations -- that I'll grant -- just no substantial evidence.
So what should we have done? Intervened to help the rebels who'd used chemical weapons? Intervened to help Assad? Or what, exactly?
8
In the meantime, I am wondering when will Hillary Clinton finally have a press conference and be asked what exactly is her solution to the issues discussed in Mr. Cohen's piece which to focuses only on Obama's past inaction on this issue. . We already know all about that.
6
Amazing how the people of the United States can complain about staying out of another country, when they created the worst disasters in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq when they got involved. USA, as a military machine, has produced more death then any other country or any terror organization in the last fifty years. To stay home and to concentrate on their own troubles (racism, inequality, nepotism, etc) is the best that the USA can do. Just imagine what could be done if the military budget was reduced drastically and domestic spending increased accordingly.
BTW: Has Roger Cohen ever been in Syria recently?
BTW: Has Roger Cohen ever been in Syria recently?
7
Half of all taxpayer dollars go into the financing of the military and their various activities. No other country does this. Other countries know that when you build a school, kids are educated, when you build a hospital, people are made healthy, when you build a bridge, commerce and communication jumps. However, when you send vast amounts to the other side of the world to impose yourself in a two thousand year-old conflict which does not threaten your security at all, it is just wasted and the only profiters are the military-industrial complex. American policy is stupid, self-destructive and doomed to fail from the outset.
6
What is happening in Syria is a moral and human disgrace. Assad's father wiped out Hama, killing ten thousand people. Saddem Hussein gassed his own people, and tortured Iraqis on a regular basis. He also started two wars one with Iran and one with Kuwait. Why is Cohen and Nick Kristof so hot to do something in Syria but opposed action in Iraq? Further if there is going to be action in Syria the president, whoever she is, has to break the news to the American people that the United States should expect to be there for decades as it continues to be in South Korea, Japan and Germany now.
6
In addition, the combat veterans created by conflict in Syria would probably be as abandoned as those that came back from Vietnam, Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom. Functionally abandoned by both the left, right and the VA in the middle.
6
The other day in a column that you wrote entitled "My Daughter the Pole" you explained how your daughter who is a British citizen currently attending college in Southern California is considering Polish citizenship so that she can game the European Union and travel about hassle free.
Well that's her business and yours. What is not your business, is to beat the drums of war, which you have a habit of doing, and demand that America send its sons and daughters into harms way in Syria.
What are you and your family sacrificing other than currently enjoying the benefits of an upper middle class lifestyle?
So sit back Mr. Cohen, and enjoy another cappuccino.
Well that's her business and yours. What is not your business, is to beat the drums of war, which you have a habit of doing, and demand that America send its sons and daughters into harms way in Syria.
What are you and your family sacrificing other than currently enjoying the benefits of an upper middle class lifestyle?
So sit back Mr. Cohen, and enjoy another cappuccino.
14
A no-fly zone imposed by the US leading a NATO effort,would have struck a reasonable and sustainable balance between direct intervention and a "hands-off" policy.
4
You ought to read Max Fisher's piece on Syria's Paradox in today's times. Perhaps the facts on the ground about this multi sided civil war with multiple intervening foreign powers will,change your mind about the wisdom of further military intervention.
3
What would Mr. Cohen have us do?
5
Well if you promise less and deliver more you don't get into these sorts of things. The Obama / Clinton idea is opposite of this, they threaten then don't follow through. Pretty simple.
1
There is no retreat. In fact, Washington has created a chaotic affairs in the Arab World where the destruction is the normality. In Aleppo, Washington has created a situation where thousands of people are dead, millions left, and the infrastructure has completely erased. What we see in Aleppo and Syria in general, we see in Iraq, Yemen, Libya, etc. There is a genocide and mass destruction but Roger and others in the media have their hidden agenda. Washington receives order from Israel and listens to what Saudis, Qataris, and Turks. So engaging in crime against humanity is justified either by messianic claim (Israel is God Kingdom on earth) or by protecting our friendly authoritarian Arab regimes in the region.
3
Roger Cohen should read the article by Max Fisher regarding Syria's paradox. The USA can not solve the Syrian conflict alone.
3
During the cold war we were blessed with the Reagan leadership, who once told an Iranian politician that if our Hostages aren’t released by the time he becomes President, there would be a massive hole where Iran used to be.When Reagan was elected our hostages were released.By the way , Reagan’s refusal to discontinue Star Wars brought the Soviet Union to it’s knees,& ended the Cold War.
The problem we have now , there is no candidate that remotely resembles Reagan..Obama is more concerned with his legacy & does not want to do anything that might create a conflict with Russia.Both Trump & Clinton are light weights on the World stage, & neither would have the support or the confidence of the American people to confront Russia.So the world will turn it’s back on the Syrian people & the war will continue, & the innocents will suffer & die.
The problem we have now , there is no candidate that remotely resembles Reagan..Obama is more concerned with his legacy & does not want to do anything that might create a conflict with Russia.Both Trump & Clinton are light weights on the World stage, & neither would have the support or the confidence of the American people to confront Russia.So the world will turn it’s back on the Syrian people & the war will continue, & the innocents will suffer & die.
2
Hello, Mr. Cohen -
I'm absolutely appalled and sickened by what is going on in Syria, as are you, but what would you have us do? You tell us "Russia dictates events with impunity", as indeed it does. Why? Because it will not hesitate to use its military the old-fashioned way, to grab territory and kill lots and lots of people.
Are you willing to have us revert to 19th-century imperialism? Perhaps if we'd left the French, British, and Israelis alone in 1956 when they had their Suez debacle, things would be different.
Should we all go back to reading Kipling, and urge our leaders to "take up the . . . burden" of imperialism? You say nothing could be worse than what is going on in Syria right now? Do you mean it? If so, urge the west to cobble together an army, go in, kill the bad guys, occupy the country a la Germany after World War II, and stabilize it.
I'm absolutely appalled and sickened by what is going on in Syria, as are you, but what would you have us do? You tell us "Russia dictates events with impunity", as indeed it does. Why? Because it will not hesitate to use its military the old-fashioned way, to grab territory and kill lots and lots of people.
Are you willing to have us revert to 19th-century imperialism? Perhaps if we'd left the French, British, and Israelis alone in 1956 when they had their Suez debacle, things would be different.
Should we all go back to reading Kipling, and urge our leaders to "take up the . . . burden" of imperialism? You say nothing could be worse than what is going on in Syria right now? Do you mean it? If so, urge the west to cobble together an army, go in, kill the bad guys, occupy the country a la Germany after World War II, and stabilize it.
2
Just stop arming the rebels (jihadists, al Nusra, etc.) and the war will end. This is about regime change in Syria and has been. It has been the agenda for years.
7
Like most pro-Syria-intervention articles one reads these days, this one seems, between the lines, to breathe a sigh of resignation - "sigh, I know that our citizenry is so tired of this hawkish, 'the plan comes later' go-to-war ideology, which has cost so much blood and money, that the last citizen gets an allergic reaction...
...and I know that the hawk's typical plea to arm 'moderate rebels' is actually a call to support the type of jihadist terrorists who are now butchering innocent citizens in European capitals...
...and I know that in all of the previous times I beat the drums like this, from Iraq to Libya, more chaos, refugees and jihadists were created...
but I'll try and write an article anyway..."
But why, Mr. Cohen, why do you try?
...and I know that the hawk's typical plea to arm 'moderate rebels' is actually a call to support the type of jihadist terrorists who are now butchering innocent citizens in European capitals...
...and I know that in all of the previous times I beat the drums like this, from Iraq to Libya, more chaos, refugees and jihadists were created...
but I'll try and write an article anyway..."
But why, Mr. Cohen, why do you try?
2
Who would rule Syria if Assad is taken out?
It’s a question that is never answered in columns such as this one by Roger Cohen. We are told that it would simply have been enough to destroy “Assad’s bomb-spewing jets and his airfields early in the war, before ISIS.” How convenient. How can one argue that given a much weaker government in Syria, ISIS would not have taken advantage of such a situation?
Think back to Iraq. Saddam Hussein and his army were taken out “before ISIS” and he was replaced with al-Maliki. Result – in came Al Qaeda and ISIS, as he proved to be a much weaker replacement.
Let’s stick with the basis. It is Al Qaeda and ISIS who have committed and/or inspired the atrocities in the West, not Assad. Nobody shouts Assad’s name before detonating themselves at an airport.
If anyone is going to be destroyed let it be Al Qaeda and ISIS first.
It’s a question that is never answered in columns such as this one by Roger Cohen. We are told that it would simply have been enough to destroy “Assad’s bomb-spewing jets and his airfields early in the war, before ISIS.” How convenient. How can one argue that given a much weaker government in Syria, ISIS would not have taken advantage of such a situation?
Think back to Iraq. Saddam Hussein and his army were taken out “before ISIS” and he was replaced with al-Maliki. Result – in came Al Qaeda and ISIS, as he proved to be a much weaker replacement.
Let’s stick with the basis. It is Al Qaeda and ISIS who have committed and/or inspired the atrocities in the West, not Assad. Nobody shouts Assad’s name before detonating themselves at an airport.
If anyone is going to be destroyed let it be Al Qaeda and ISIS first.
4
Mr. Cohen has surrendered his rational convictions since the Paris killings and has taken to goading President Obama into war. Syria is not our war. It is a civil war, it is a religious war, it is not strategic to America or our National Security. Arguments to the contrary involve Israel. Our Congress was eager to try to humiliate our President and allow Netanyahu to make a campaign speech denigrating our President but that same Congress refused to act on a Presidential request to authorize the use of force in Syria. Mr. Cohen appears to have forgotten this and has not done anything to get this Congress to act. One would think that he has sided with a partisan racist cabal to humiliate the Black President by demanding action when Congress refuses and then placing blame with Obama.
The American people are against war and more troops and all that jumping into that quagmire involves. Why, we have not raised taxes to pay for the wars we are in, and the majority in Congress wants to lower taxes on the rich and cut life sustaining programs to pay for their stupidity.
Israel wants to join in this war? What a strange man, Netanyahu. One would think he believed no one could see what he is doing.
No, Syria is not the Balkans. Syria is a place where Sunnis and Shiites kill each other and Russia helps. Children are hurt and killed in Gaza, over 495 in 2014. Where is Cohen's outrage? Against Obama?
The American people are against war and more troops and all that jumping into that quagmire involves. Why, we have not raised taxes to pay for the wars we are in, and the majority in Congress wants to lower taxes on the rich and cut life sustaining programs to pay for their stupidity.
Israel wants to join in this war? What a strange man, Netanyahu. One would think he believed no one could see what he is doing.
No, Syria is not the Balkans. Syria is a place where Sunnis and Shiites kill each other and Russia helps. Children are hurt and killed in Gaza, over 495 in 2014. Where is Cohen's outrage? Against Obama?
5
And all the death and devastation that General Cohen would unleash is called what by him?
7
Hold on a minute. Didn't Obama try to get authorization from Congress to bomb Syria, which authorization they denied him? We should look at Congress, and who's in control of it, for the majority of the blame here. Or maybe Bush's bait-and-switch authorization to invade Iraq should have been Obama's model. How did that work out for us?
3
Maybe we can start with your newspaper putting Syria on the upper left hand corner of the front page every day, instead of Donald Trump.
The media needs to take responsibility for dropping the ball.
The media needs to take responsibility for dropping the ball.
3
Not only is Syria Obama's worst failure, it's emblematic of just how terrible his foreign policy has been. Libya has also been a disaster. Historians will rank him down with President Bush, in regards to his terrible decisions in the region. How Hillary has escaped shouldering part of the blame is astonishing.
2
Your column is simply a reflection of a guilt-ridden liberal Western mindset. Instead of placing the blame for the horrors of Aleppo where it squarely belongs you blame Obama and the US. The root cause of the tragedy in Syria is the inability or unwillingness of Arab Muslims to embrace democracy and religious tolerance. As long as that is the case, there is nothing that the US or any other country can do to prevent the misery in Syria and other Arab countries.
4
When is America going to learn to mind its own business and stop trying to run the affairs of other nations?
We pretend that we mean well by other nations, but our partnership with Saudi Arabia, with Pakistan, with Turkey and with the neo-Nazi regime in Kiev shows that what we look for is alliances which further our strategic interests (which are different from the interests of the American people).
We pretend that we mean well by other nations, but our partnership with Saudi Arabia, with Pakistan, with Turkey and with the neo-Nazi regime in Kiev shows that what we look for is alliances which further our strategic interests (which are different from the interests of the American people).
6
"When millions died in Congo, where was your concern?"
People in Congo tend to have black skin, like people in Rwanda. People in Bosnia, by contrast, tend to have white skin, which inevitably gets our "intervention" juices flowing.
People in Syria? Not exactly white and not exactly black. Certainly we wish them well -- just as we wished well those dark-skinned people in Congo and Rwanda. But intervene? We'll have to think about it.
That's the "racism" explanation for our choice of where to intervene, and -- let's face it -- it does jibe with historical reality. Some may conclude it means we should have intervened in Congo and Rwanda -- not to mention Syria, of course. Others, such as I, think there are other good reasons for not intervening.
People in Congo tend to have black skin, like people in Rwanda. People in Bosnia, by contrast, tend to have white skin, which inevitably gets our "intervention" juices flowing.
People in Syria? Not exactly white and not exactly black. Certainly we wish them well -- just as we wished well those dark-skinned people in Congo and Rwanda. But intervene? We'll have to think about it.
That's the "racism" explanation for our choice of where to intervene, and -- let's face it -- it does jibe with historical reality. Some may conclude it means we should have intervened in Congo and Rwanda -- not to mention Syria, of course. Others, such as I, think there are other good reasons for not intervening.
1
The most disingenuous comment in the whole article is in regard to the plight of America's European allies-i.e. having to face the migration of refugees. There is a simple solution to that problem. The nations of the European Union (including now post-Brexit Britain) can militarily intervene in Syria for their regional security. (Keep in mind, we are discussing a region of 500M people with a GDP equivalent to the US.) Article 42 and 222 of the European Union Treaty could be implemented for mutual defence in the maneuver. Undoubtedly, the US would eventually provide supplementary staging assistance. But direct American military intervention is out of the question.
6
Reading through the comments to Mr. Cohen's propaganda piece it seems that most contributors do not know: -
1. That the USA has been involved in causing the Syrian Civil War, by use of mercenaries and proxies
2. The USA wanted and still wants Regime Change in Syria and the USA will not let the Civil War end till it gets its way.
3. Therefore the American populace has got action in Syria. Your Citizenry is not being informed about what is going on.
1. That the USA has been involved in causing the Syrian Civil War, by use of mercenaries and proxies
2. The USA wanted and still wants Regime Change in Syria and the USA will not let the Civil War end till it gets its way.
3. Therefore the American populace has got action in Syria. Your Citizenry is not being informed about what is going on.
7
Ain't it the truth?
"Advocates for action never have a viable exit strategy. There isn't one."
When we invaded Afghanistan in late 2001, to root out Osama bin Laden and his followers (who promptly moved to Pakistan), did you ever imagine we'd still be there 15 years later? Think maybe we're about to leave? Fire up Google Earth and type "Bagram, Afghanistan." Up will come a 2-mile long US air base that -- trust me -- we aren't going to be leaving any time soon.
"Advocates for action never have a viable exit strategy. There isn't one."
When we invaded Afghanistan in late 2001, to root out Osama bin Laden and his followers (who promptly moved to Pakistan), did you ever imagine we'd still be there 15 years later? Think maybe we're about to leave? Fire up Google Earth and type "Bagram, Afghanistan." Up will come a 2-mile long US air base that -- trust me -- we aren't going to be leaving any time soon.
4
Bravo Roger! We've been waiting for what seems like years for someone to call the Obama's pacifist administration spineless. And we and the world will be paying for this lack of action for years to come.
It's time for the world to step up and the United States to join in. Maybe Mr . Cohen wants his children to go into a mission which is undefined but history tells us the good fight is not always the right fight. Why is it always the US responsibility to lead and not the rest of the world?
Yes Asad is awful but the people that would take over if his opponents won would likely be even worse. We have seen what ISIS does. Are the anti-Asad folks any different? Why has there not been more concern about the suffering of Aleppo? Perhaps it is because the Muslim extremists are cutting off the heads of the journalists and videographers that might have exposed the situation to the world.
Bottom line: Obama made the right decision to stay out of Syria. Russia will back Assad no matter how evil he is as they need their Mediterranean naval base and there was simply no public or Congressional support for another war.
Enough Americans have died trying to keep Muslims from killing each other. We have spent enough treasure trying to put Iraq and Afghanistan back together.
Bottom line: Obama made the right decision to stay out of Syria. Russia will back Assad no matter how evil he is as they need their Mediterranean naval base and there was simply no public or Congressional support for another war.
Enough Americans have died trying to keep Muslims from killing each other. We have spent enough treasure trying to put Iraq and Afghanistan back together.
4
Mr. Cohen is correct that the Obama administration has made mistakes. But he is wrong about the nature of the mistakes. The most significant mistake is blindly continuing decades of a misguided relationship with Turkey. Every US administration since the Second World War has made excuses for Turkey without regard to the type of government it had and without regard to the policies and actions of any such government.
Turkey has and has had the geographical location and military capability from US supplied arms with which it could relieve Aleppo in short order. It could also use its military capability to establish the ground presence necessary to set up a no fly zone over the area. Instead, Turkey uses its US supplied arms to perpetuate its illegal occupation of the territory of the Republic of Cyprus, violate the Greek airspace and attack those Kurdish forces who are fighting ISIS. Instead, until recently, it enabled ISIS to strengthen itself by allowing oil and other supplies to cross the Turkish borders so that ISIS could them sell them in exchange for hard currency.
Will the next administration learn from these mistakes? It is doubtful. Clinton followed the same 70-year old US -Turkish policies when she was Secretary of State. Trump probably cannot find Turkey on a map.
Turkey has and has had the geographical location and military capability from US supplied arms with which it could relieve Aleppo in short order. It could also use its military capability to establish the ground presence necessary to set up a no fly zone over the area. Instead, Turkey uses its US supplied arms to perpetuate its illegal occupation of the territory of the Republic of Cyprus, violate the Greek airspace and attack those Kurdish forces who are fighting ISIS. Instead, until recently, it enabled ISIS to strengthen itself by allowing oil and other supplies to cross the Turkish borders so that ISIS could them sell them in exchange for hard currency.
Will the next administration learn from these mistakes? It is doubtful. Clinton followed the same 70-year old US -Turkish policies when she was Secretary of State. Trump probably cannot find Turkey on a map.
2
I hear your pain, Roger, but your cynicism toward President Obama isn't the point. Congress could have authorized force. Still, is this another war for us to engage? Would you write an article explaining how the other Mideast countries are involved? Isn't Saudi Arabia contributing arms? This war is horrific and tragic, and yet is difficult to grasp considering all the contributing factors. From here, it seems to be yet another result of the destabilization of the area by our invasion of Iraq, but is this entirely true? How much of this is about the age old warfare within Islam? And how, exactly, could intervention work now? Shoulda-coulda doesn't really help at this point. At this point, we need to envision what Clinton might do, what Trump might do, what the UN might be inspired to do, what Europe might do, and vote accordingly in November, up and down the ticket. Will Republicans in Congress block everything a President Clinton proposes as they did with President Obama? After all, she's female, and according to the alt right, should be home baking cookies. Will Republicans in Congress support everything a President Trump proposes? Even the use of nuclear weapons? I mean, he said if we have them, why aren't we using them. Let's see some thoughtful commentary on what's to come, instead of more Obama-bashing and blaming. I think there is less indifference among Americans than you portray. There simply aren't clear answers.
1
You are suffering from an illusion of righteousness out of step with the both the theories of wars of annihilation and the little wars (Petite Guerre) of attrition that flowed from the founding of America's wars with American Indians and into the various militaries of Europe and Asia. It would behoove you to read some military history, especially of the theories that made Sherman's march of annihilation so successful in ending the Civil War but that stirred up hate and resonances in the American South, like Sunnis and Shiites, down to the present. Americans long for traditional solutions. Remember that the traditional solution of the First American Way of War was grounded in 1. scorched earth to create famine and 2. the murder of women and children to create despair. The Pipeline across the land of the Great Sioux Nation now reduced to the Sioux Tribe, shows that the war is still being waged from without by the private industry enabled by their state and federal governments. Speak the Truth! Make reconciliation here first and then you can speak about the rest of the world. If you demand truth from Islam, demand it from the other children of Abraham as well. I worked on the commission in Canada on the Native Schools run by Christians. What was admitted was as horrendous as anywhere in the world. What flowed from that admittance brought down a government and has raised a new hope in Toronto but they still have the nightmare of the tar sands as legacy.
6
Ah, Roger the Bold. Ready to send US troops to Syria but not ready to enlist and offer to be one of those troops. When should we stop at Syria? The situation in South Sudan is deplorable. Nigeria is unable to stem Boko Harem. The situation in Yemen is terrible. Certainly Roger would want us to intervene. Now I'll explain it to you. Middle Easterners and Africans are congenitally unable to govern themselves. Their inadequacies are not our problem. Let them sort out their own problems. Their misery is not worth the life or limb of one US soldier.
“…within that overall blunder the worst error was the last-minute “red line” wobble that undermined America’s word”
I would suggest that the bigger mistake was falling into the trap of creating a “red line.” During my lifetime I have watch the US commit its forces to not just unwinnable wars but to unjust, immoral actions such as Vietnam where we intervened on the wrong side of a civil war. We need to learn, in Obama’s words “don’t do stupid stuff.”
As several commenters here have already pointed out; we didn’t create the problems in Syria and US military action aren’t going to solve them.
I would suggest that the bigger mistake was falling into the trap of creating a “red line.” During my lifetime I have watch the US commit its forces to not just unwinnable wars but to unjust, immoral actions such as Vietnam where we intervened on the wrong side of a civil war. We need to learn, in Obama’s words “don’t do stupid stuff.”
As several commenters here have already pointed out; we didn’t create the problems in Syria and US military action aren’t going to solve them.
3
I do not not know what to say. The video is tragic, tearful, touching. But one knows our nation is broken, and unable to function with any human purpose simply by observing the two terrible candidates running for president. Trump the rabble rouser of Xenophobia, and Hillary a creature who turned good deed doing into a money making machine for her and her husband.
1
This "Blame Obama" argument sells very well!
Russia, a Syrian ally of 50 years, was invited in by Assad to help support his government against "terrorists." If the US had intervened early on (without support of Congress, UN or Britain), who is to say with certainty that Russia would not have come to Assad's defense?
This is likely the reason Russia brokered a deal to destroy Syria's chemical weapons.
The conundrum with R2P is that, while invoking NATO and dropping bombs worked in Bosnia, adding military resources to the Syria conflict would certainly increase risk to civilians and, arguably, fuel a much wider conflict!
This is all very frustrating, but the US or Obama cannot be blamed for using restraint and for having no easy answer to bring about peace.
Russia, a Syrian ally of 50 years, was invited in by Assad to help support his government against "terrorists." If the US had intervened early on (without support of Congress, UN or Britain), who is to say with certainty that Russia would not have come to Assad's defense?
This is likely the reason Russia brokered a deal to destroy Syria's chemical weapons.
The conundrum with R2P is that, while invoking NATO and dropping bombs worked in Bosnia, adding military resources to the Syria conflict would certainly increase risk to civilians and, arguably, fuel a much wider conflict!
This is all very frustrating, but the US or Obama cannot be blamed for using restraint and for having no easy answer to bring about peace.
1
I did not find in my research any details about the author having served his birth country (England) or the U.S. in uniform. I did find that he had no problem supporting U.S. involvement in Iraq. Oh, my, another chicken hawk parading as a knowledgeable writer at what is our nation's best newspaper.
Those with no skin in the game, but who present themselves as righteous warriors, wield too much power in our political parties and media outlets today.
Those with no skin in the game, but who present themselves as righteous warriors, wield too much power in our political parties and media outlets today.
6
Cohen is obviously quite sincere in his view that we should have intervened. But as I have written before, considering there are multiple parties, some bad and others worse, I do not see how our military intevention could have been benficial. This conflict is the epitome of quagmire. Other than the first Iraq war and the war in Kosovo, most of the other military engagements since WWII have failed to both achieve our objectives and leave things in better shape than before we got involved. Cohen's belief that military intervention early on is commendable but completely misplaced.
3
Prompt admission of Bosnia into the EU would have been much better than seriously imperfect U.S. intervention not to mention Blue-helmeted failure to protect lives. The State Department argued for urging the EU and Bush did not listen. We knew in advance what would happen in Bosnia.
Syria is much more complex. Do we have the sophisticated diplomats able to counsel even if imperfectly? I doubt it given that recruiting Arabic speakers has not been effective. For that matter recruiting sophisticated thinkers is not D.C.'s bias. Sheep willing to rubber stamp is another reflection of GOP dominance.
Syria is much more complex. Do we have the sophisticated diplomats able to counsel even if imperfectly? I doubt it given that recruiting Arabic speakers has not been effective. For that matter recruiting sophisticated thinkers is not D.C.'s bias. Sheep willing to rubber stamp is another reflection of GOP dominance.
2
Syria is a horrible mess and no one can not be concerned about the suffering that is being endured. Mr. Cohen forgets, however, that the American people made it crystal clear after the Iraq invasion that they have limited interest in solving the world's problems. It is unlikely they are prepared to take a more active role in opposition to Assad, particularly given the Russian involvement and the difficulty finding rebel groups to support who are reliable.
1
Aleppo is another waypoint along the catastrophic route of war and destruction that President Obama's foreign policy has blazed, no pun intended. Through action, inaction, indecisiveness, dishonesty, incompetence and just plain stupidity, Obama and his lieutenants have managed to make bad situations worse (Syria and Iraq) while enabling two of the world's most dangerous regimes (Russia and Iran) to thrive and threaten.
Does anyone seriously believe that Iran has halted its development of nuclear weapons? Is anyone really surprised that Russia has taken the gloves off and is able to do whatever it wants with impunity in Syria and anywhere else it chooses? "Tell Vladimir I'll have more flexibility after the election..." This must have been music to Putin's ears when Obama was inadvertently heard saying this to President Medvedev.
No, the United States can't police the world but we also can't afford to let global events take their course when it is clear that the course is leading somewhere terrible for us and for innocent populations. Military deterrence kept the peace during the cold war. Aleppo shows us the awful consequences of standing down and "leading from behind."
Barack Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize before he became president, simply because he was not George Bush. The honorable thing for him to do would be to return it to the Norwegian Nobel Committee.
Does anyone seriously believe that Iran has halted its development of nuclear weapons? Is anyone really surprised that Russia has taken the gloves off and is able to do whatever it wants with impunity in Syria and anywhere else it chooses? "Tell Vladimir I'll have more flexibility after the election..." This must have been music to Putin's ears when Obama was inadvertently heard saying this to President Medvedev.
No, the United States can't police the world but we also can't afford to let global events take their course when it is clear that the course is leading somewhere terrible for us and for innocent populations. Military deterrence kept the peace during the cold war. Aleppo shows us the awful consequences of standing down and "leading from behind."
Barack Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize before he became president, simply because he was not George Bush. The honorable thing for him to do would be to return it to the Norwegian Nobel Committee.
1
I emotionally reacted to atrocities in Aleppo, so vivid in recent videos. I lost all perspective. Comments today help restore it. I'm reminded of complexities of the region, competing interests, and futility and even harm of certain interventions.
I had cheered Obama when he pivoted away from the red line and as he resisted calls to arm rebel factions (which ones?). Then, only yesterday, I cried for action against Assad, forgetting the Assad/Putin marriage and that they sometimes fight against our common enemy, ISIL.
Thanks commenters. Heartbreaking sorry mess needs humanitarian aid. Cruelty needs opposition. But how?
I had cheered Obama when he pivoted away from the red line and as he resisted calls to arm rebel factions (which ones?). Then, only yesterday, I cried for action against Assad, forgetting the Assad/Putin marriage and that they sometimes fight against our common enemy, ISIL.
Thanks commenters. Heartbreaking sorry mess needs humanitarian aid. Cruelty needs opposition. But how?
1
"Who recalls that just six years ago Aleppo was being talked about in Europe as the new Marrakesh, a place to buy a vacation home?" Well, as not living in Europe, no one I know. Instead, traveling to Portugal next week and apparently the new "hot spot" is Portugal's Atlantic coast. Too bad because a lot of it is being bought by the British who are very good at making the best vacation spots into unappealing locations (witness what they have done to to Spain's south coast).
The Middle East and Aleppo in particular will never in Western minds match what's offered in the former Yugoslavia; and in real cultural aspects either. In Western thought the Middle East resides squarely in that part of the feudal ages that gave Europe the 100 years war, hatchet wielding executioners, plague, despotic rule, etc. and without the good parts such as the Catholic cathedrals on every visitor's schedule.
Mr. Cohen? Why isn't it a fair assumption to list the Middle East as hopeless and best to avoid?
The Middle East and Aleppo in particular will never in Western minds match what's offered in the former Yugoslavia; and in real cultural aspects either. In Western thought the Middle East resides squarely in that part of the feudal ages that gave Europe the 100 years war, hatchet wielding executioners, plague, despotic rule, etc. and without the good parts such as the Catholic cathedrals on every visitor's schedule.
Mr. Cohen? Why isn't it a fair assumption to list the Middle East as hopeless and best to avoid?
1
The three Sine Qua Non rules of Just International Intervention are: A. Never exaggerate the severity of the situation to be ameliorated in order to justify an intervention. B. Never act in such a way that the civil population which is to be saved is put in harm's way in order to provide unqualified security for the Intervening force. In other words, the "proportional" element the rules of Just War should be extended considerably in favor of the invaded population. C. Never intervene in an oil (or any other most wanted asset) rich country unless it can be positively proved that's it's not about geostrategic hegemony or economic profits.
The road to the current disaster was paved mainly these factors: The Iraq invasion; the insistence on the immediate removal of Assad which was motivated by geostrategic and economic (gas pipelines) Western interests; the lessons learned by Assad from H. Clinton’s war against Kaddafi; the chemical-weapons alarm and sanctimonious condemnations had very little to do with “mass destruction”.
From that factual basis we can deduce that bombing Assad’s army on chemical-weapons pretence would have been just about a slaughter-propelling war crime. Obama was right to avoid it (even in his wobbly way). That said, America’s continuing demand for the removal of Assad as a precondition to negotiations was, and still is, a horribly idiotic policy.
The road to the current disaster was paved mainly these factors: The Iraq invasion; the insistence on the immediate removal of Assad which was motivated by geostrategic and economic (gas pipelines) Western interests; the lessons learned by Assad from H. Clinton’s war against Kaddafi; the chemical-weapons alarm and sanctimonious condemnations had very little to do with “mass destruction”.
From that factual basis we can deduce that bombing Assad’s army on chemical-weapons pretence would have been just about a slaughter-propelling war crime. Obama was right to avoid it (even in his wobbly way). That said, America’s continuing demand for the removal of Assad as a precondition to negotiations was, and still is, a horribly idiotic policy.
9
May I call you Roger Neo-Cohen? If America lost credibility it was due to the war you rooted for, the post-9/11 invasion of Iraq. I recently saw an old deck of "Bush Cards" with members of the neo-con team, aka Rumsfeld, Cheney, but, alas, they didn't include you but probably should have. I'm not a total pacifist but this is not a war we need to be in any more than we are. If you feel strongly enough you and members of your family can probably find a way to volunteer for one of the many sides.
6
Love that one! Well spoken!
1
''No, Syria has been Obama’s worst mistake''
No it was not. Backing up out of an intractable,expensive, and bloody mess was the right thing to do.
America's children didn't die there in mass, and little gold was wasted.
Your children I trust are not serving in the infantry?
Who might end up dying or being maimed for less than nothing.
No it was not. Backing up out of an intractable,expensive, and bloody mess was the right thing to do.
America's children didn't die there in mass, and little gold was wasted.
Your children I trust are not serving in the infantry?
Who might end up dying or being maimed for less than nothing.
2
Do you understand that Americans are tired of fighting other people's wars. No doubt Assad is a bad person, but the world is full of bad leaders. Is there any reason to believe that any of the forces fighting Assad would make Syria a better place? I don't think so. In case you have lost your short term memory take a look at Iraq. Yes, a terrible leader was defeated, but the structure put in to replace him has resulted in a worse situation. It is likely the same will be true in Syria if Assad is defeated.
3
Mr Cohen is very intentionally ignoring some very important aspects of the situation. The fact is that as horrible as the situation in Syria is, it could easily turn into something much much worse. Mr Cohen seems to be wanting to cheer on the prospect of a direct confrontation between NATO (and the US) and Russia. Without very very delicate diplomacy and serious restraint on both sides, Syria could very well end up in the same role that Serbia played back in 1914, and turn what is currently a fairly contained war into World War III.
And if we escalate it into World War III, everybody loses. The US, Russia, Europe, China, everybody. To the tune of trillions of dollars and billions of lives. And for what? According to Mr Cohen, the word "credibility". I'm sorry, I'm not willing to sacrifice millions of people so Mr Cohen can feel good about himself.
It is true that Syria was an Obama mistake (or more precisely, a Clinton mistake): The Obama administration should never have supplied the rebels with weapons to turn an attempted peaceful revolution (inspired by similar efforts in Tunisia and Egypt) into a civil war. Hillary Clinton did it, according to leaked emails, to "destroy Syria for Israel", as a way to contain Iran. We should have learned something about pointless militarism over the last 15 years.
And if we escalate it into World War III, everybody loses. The US, Russia, Europe, China, everybody. To the tune of trillions of dollars and billions of lives. And for what? According to Mr Cohen, the word "credibility". I'm sorry, I'm not willing to sacrifice millions of people so Mr Cohen can feel good about himself.
It is true that Syria was an Obama mistake (or more precisely, a Clinton mistake): The Obama administration should never have supplied the rebels with weapons to turn an attempted peaceful revolution (inspired by similar efforts in Tunisia and Egypt) into a civil war. Hillary Clinton did it, according to leaked emails, to "destroy Syria for Israel", as a way to contain Iran. We should have learned something about pointless militarism over the last 15 years.
4
Obama could not have pursued his utterly disastrous ideological policy of withdrawal and isolation if not for two factors:
1) the apathy, ignorance, and racism of US isolationists;
2) the "support Obama at any price" attitude of opinion shapers like the NYT.
Now we have at least a dozen flash-points around the globe, all fubar, all accompanied by, or having the potential for, huge amounts of chaos and misery. All of them could have been ameliorated by leadership and action by the US and its allies.
Things are going to get much worse, and if you think it won't affect your comfortable isolated lives in the States, you are mistaken. Wait until Venezuela implodes.
1) the apathy, ignorance, and racism of US isolationists;
2) the "support Obama at any price" attitude of opinion shapers like the NYT.
Now we have at least a dozen flash-points around the globe, all fubar, all accompanied by, or having the potential for, huge amounts of chaos and misery. All of them could have been ameliorated by leadership and action by the US and its allies.
Things are going to get much worse, and if you think it won't affect your comfortable isolated lives in the States, you are mistaken. Wait until Venezuela implodes.
1
I thought this a poignant and appropriate op ed piece.
Sad that there hasn't been a single comment supporting it.
Sad that there hasn't been a single comment supporting it.
1
I have loved to President Obama, but this is the fatal flaw of his presidency. It took Bill Clinton a long time to act in The Bosnian war but he finally did it. It isn't too late!
1
Overwrought.
Intervention in Syria required (a) public support (there is little none), (b) some semblance of Congressional approval (not forthcoming), and (c) some sort of great power consensus (obviously not there) among the Western powers and at least one of Russia or China. The President, whether Obama or someone else, is not omnipotent (contra Trump).
The lack of public, Congressional and international support for a Cohen's ideas reflects the harsh reality that taking out Assad would not end the problem. Strife in Syria might escalate, just as the elimination of Saddam Hussein in Iraq arguably worsened underlying social and cultural conflicts.
There is no obvious or easy solution to the problems of these middle eastern "countries," few or none of which are "nations" in the western (and very recent) sense.
Likewise, the problem is not one man (Obama or Assad or Putin or whoever) but human nature and history. We do not live up to our ideals -- they would describe "reality" and not be "ideals" if we did. The question is whether we can and do progress in the direction such "ideals" indicate, if only at a crawl, over the centuries and millennia.
Intervention in Syria required (a) public support (there is little none), (b) some semblance of Congressional approval (not forthcoming), and (c) some sort of great power consensus (obviously not there) among the Western powers and at least one of Russia or China. The President, whether Obama or someone else, is not omnipotent (contra Trump).
The lack of public, Congressional and international support for a Cohen's ideas reflects the harsh reality that taking out Assad would not end the problem. Strife in Syria might escalate, just as the elimination of Saddam Hussein in Iraq arguably worsened underlying social and cultural conflicts.
There is no obvious or easy solution to the problems of these middle eastern "countries," few or none of which are "nations" in the western (and very recent) sense.
Likewise, the problem is not one man (Obama or Assad or Putin or whoever) but human nature and history. We do not live up to our ideals -- they would describe "reality" and not be "ideals" if we did. The question is whether we can and do progress in the direction such "ideals" indicate, if only at a crawl, over the centuries and millennia.
3
Interesting that suddenly this journal advocates...just what? Send in the troops yet again to...what? Referee yet another islam-inspired genocidal cleansing of the infidel? Likely this author is an ardent supporter of the criminally negligent deal with the criminally culpable iranian islamists. Or perhaps, he is on board with his candidate's embrace of wahabbism cash doled out by those freedom loving saudis that her family and the corrupt bush family hold hands with. Try to walk in a straight line sir, lest we confuse the location of your pate with the location of your back pockets.
2
War is a deadly game that some men play in order to bolster bank accounts and egos while others invoke the name of some faceless deity in order to justify their blood lust.
Grown men who offer specious beliefs to justify killing women, children and other non combatants are no more than cold blooded murderers. It has been this way for millenia, but for whatever lack of reason they simply wash and clean their blood stained hands until the next killing field is tilled.
It is the same the world over and until we, with the most powerful military in the world, commit to peace and refuse to engage no other nation will take that first step.
Aleppo should not have been left to bleed, but neither should any city in the world, but the only way to stop the bleeding is to stop shedding blood.
No nation is holding a gun to our head.
Grown men who offer specious beliefs to justify killing women, children and other non combatants are no more than cold blooded murderers. It has been this way for millenia, but for whatever lack of reason they simply wash and clean their blood stained hands until the next killing field is tilled.
It is the same the world over and until we, with the most powerful military in the world, commit to peace and refuse to engage no other nation will take that first step.
Aleppo should not have been left to bleed, but neither should any city in the world, but the only way to stop the bleeding is to stop shedding blood.
No nation is holding a gun to our head.
1
Syria was not Obama's "mistake". Obama intentionally sacrificed Syria and the Syrian people to placate Iran and preserve his grandiose fantasies and misrepresentations regarding an Iranian nuclear deal and his illusions regarding the regional stabilization that would flow from America's unstated potentiation and support of Iranian regional dominance. Assad has essentially been Iran's agent for a genocidal and ethnic cleansing policy in Syria in furtherance of Iranian military expansion and potential for regional threat and intimidation.
1
I read yesterday that the CIA is spending a billion dollars a year of its budget on Syria, and that enforcing the no-fly zone would take thousands of military personnel. The message from the American people is clear -- no more interventions. But that won't stop Hillary and the zealots in the State Department. Our diplomatic arm seems to have forgotten how to do diplomacy.
3
Mr. Cohen; You sound like Donald Trump, bemoaning the waning of American influence, and suggesting that "America alone" could have prevented the tragedy unfolding in Syria. You simplify the situation there, where multiple brutal factions are literally tearing the country apart in what is partially a civil war and partially a regional war. We may bemoan Russian intervention propping up Assad, but deeper US involvement would most likely widen the conflict and cause further pain here, where we are still processing the consequences of the last few times that US adventurism backfired. Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, etc.. Aleppo is not Sarajevo redux. Save your emotional pleas for a fundraising pitch to help the Syrian refugees. US policy in this case is guided by rational wisdom, not gut instinct, which is a refreshing change.
5
I wish I could give you a dozen recommendations for your post, SAF93. How much would an American intervention cost in lives and dollars? and if we spent even half that amount in dollars to help these people, wouldn't that build faith and trust between the US and Syrian people for the future? Seems like a vastly better choice, to send aid and help support life rather than end it.
Spokesmen and spin can only get you so far. Somewhere along the line, actuality takes over, and the truth can no longer be hidden. In a round about way, this is what Cohen writes. At the moment, the American citizen wants to hear spin, they don't want to see the people of Aleppo. Life is not a movie; there is no guarantee that the "good guys" will win.
There is only one country in the Middle East where the public opinion supports a full scale US intervention in Syria - and that is Israel. And they don't support it because it would be so beneficial for the Syrians. On the contrary, they love the likely long term devastation.
Mr. Cohen should recall the news reports from a few years ago when the rebels had just entered Aleppo and it was clear to anyone that they were not very welcome.
Mr. Cohen should recall the news reports from a few years ago when the rebels had just entered Aleppo and it was clear to anyone that they were not very welcome.
5
@WimR, please cite public opinion polls of the views of the Israeli public, as well as the publics in all surrounding Middle Eastern states (Arab states, Turkey, and Iran) to back up your assertion. I have never seen any data that supports what you say.
Israel's policy in Syria is to stay out, and only take actions when its security is threatened (i.e. by Iran/Hezbollah trying to stir up trouble on the Golan, or by Hezbollah trying to transfer long range missiles into Lebanon).
Israel also has quietly provided humanitarian aid and medical assistance to injured Syrians at hospitals all over northern Israel.
Israel's policy in Syria is to stay out, and only take actions when its security is threatened (i.e. by Iran/Hezbollah trying to stir up trouble on the Golan, or by Hezbollah trying to transfer long range missiles into Lebanon).
Israel also has quietly provided humanitarian aid and medical assistance to injured Syrians at hospitals all over northern Israel.
2
between Serajavo and Aleppo, wonder whether same concerns were raised when sanctions against Iraq (causing untold suffering for children, women and civil populace for lack of access to food and drugs, and then the intervention in Iraq, a war-crime that remains unpunished.
2
This Op-Ed author really should go work in drama.
The reason the middle east is in shatters, is because the US along with its NATO allies spent the last 2 decades artificially reshaping it from the outside, replacing the naturally established leaderships and power structures (which could account for the immense inter-religious and inter-tribal conflicts.) with artificially crafted "democratic" systems which in practice caused more damage than elephants in a dish shop. If the US would have never invaded Iraq, there would be no ISIS. And if NATO would have never bomb Libya to bits, Libya wouldn't be in shatters and its radical elements wouldn't be threatening everyone in North Africa and the Middle East.
Stop using emotionalism to further your aggressive foreign policy. International relations are not funny, neither are they games for you to enjoy. You've disrupted the stability and survivabily of the Arab world, and now you're crying over not having disrupted it even more? My god.
The reason the middle east is in shatters, is because the US along with its NATO allies spent the last 2 decades artificially reshaping it from the outside, replacing the naturally established leaderships and power structures (which could account for the immense inter-religious and inter-tribal conflicts.) with artificially crafted "democratic" systems which in practice caused more damage than elephants in a dish shop. If the US would have never invaded Iraq, there would be no ISIS. And if NATO would have never bomb Libya to bits, Libya wouldn't be in shatters and its radical elements wouldn't be threatening everyone in North Africa and the Middle East.
Stop using emotionalism to further your aggressive foreign policy. International relations are not funny, neither are they games for you to enjoy. You've disrupted the stability and survivabily of the Arab world, and now you're crying over not having disrupted it even more? My god.
6
Sarajevo is in Europe. Post-fighting, mostly stable and democratic governments were seen as possible and now exist.
Syria is not even Tunisia. Possible scenarios don't seem clear cut or hopeful.
As for your call for US effort, blood and treasure: What is the clear realistic achievable goal? What timeline?
Relieving your conscience can't be the only driver. Iraq and Libya should serve as cautionary tales.
Syria is not even Tunisia. Possible scenarios don't seem clear cut or hopeful.
As for your call for US effort, blood and treasure: What is the clear realistic achievable goal? What timeline?
Relieving your conscience can't be the only driver. Iraq and Libya should serve as cautionary tales.
1
Dear Cohen and Kristoff
"Aleppo lacks such urgency. It’s bombarded: What else is new? How often does the word “Aleppo” fall from President Obama’s lips. ..At which dinner parties in London, Paris, Berlin or Washington is it discussed? Which Western journalists are able to be there to chronicle day after day their outrage at a city’s dismemberment? Who recalls that just six years ago Aleppo was being talked about in Europe as the new Marrakesh, a place to buy a vacation home?"
They avoid the word because they know they caused the mayhem in Syria - by arming various terrorist groups in Syria (directly and through proxies) merely to see syrian goverment fall and hope to install a more compliant pro-west leadership in its place.
Are they against dictators in general? Much worse dictatorships in the middle east are US allies and they even participated in promoting democracy in Syria..for eg KSA, qatar etc. NK is a dictatorship left happily alone inspite of being anti-US because they have real WMD.
To promote democracy for Syrian people and not to insists on same for US allies or for dangerous (can bite back) dictatorships - is not principled. It may be racism or healthy respect for one own hide.
I fail to understand if you quite lack the intelligence to appreciate the fallout of such intervention in Iraq, Lybia and Afganisthan - oh so recently. Bosnia is a financial albatross on UN's neck. What are you - a glutton for punishment?
Go volunteer yourself there...
"Aleppo lacks such urgency. It’s bombarded: What else is new? How often does the word “Aleppo” fall from President Obama’s lips. ..At which dinner parties in London, Paris, Berlin or Washington is it discussed? Which Western journalists are able to be there to chronicle day after day their outrage at a city’s dismemberment? Who recalls that just six years ago Aleppo was being talked about in Europe as the new Marrakesh, a place to buy a vacation home?"
They avoid the word because they know they caused the mayhem in Syria - by arming various terrorist groups in Syria (directly and through proxies) merely to see syrian goverment fall and hope to install a more compliant pro-west leadership in its place.
Are they against dictators in general? Much worse dictatorships in the middle east are US allies and they even participated in promoting democracy in Syria..for eg KSA, qatar etc. NK is a dictatorship left happily alone inspite of being anti-US because they have real WMD.
To promote democracy for Syrian people and not to insists on same for US allies or for dangerous (can bite back) dictatorships - is not principled. It may be racism or healthy respect for one own hide.
I fail to understand if you quite lack the intelligence to appreciate the fallout of such intervention in Iraq, Lybia and Afganisthan - oh so recently. Bosnia is a financial albatross on UN's neck. What are you - a glutton for punishment?
Go volunteer yourself there...
5
Obama's choice has to be viewed in a broader context: To commit to intervention in Syria is to choose a side in the larger Shia-Sunni conflict. Anyone think that's a good idea?
In the long run, Americans will be grateful that our troops stayed on the sidelines. There's no easy way out of this mess, but our best hope is to influence the outcome via diplomatic and economic means.
In the long run, Americans will be grateful that our troops stayed on the sidelines. There's no easy way out of this mess, but our best hope is to influence the outcome via diplomatic and economic means.
4
Saddens me that so many if you take extreme "either/or" stances, laced with so much vitriol. First of all the video is a poignant artistic statement in itself that should awaken our common humanity. Secondly, there are some interventions such as the no-fly zone that could mitigate, quite simply some of the horror without over comitting ourselves (and is that so bad?). Thirdly, why imply that you have lost respect for Mr. Cohen just because you disagree with his point of view in this one article?
Still don't get why Syria or any other random country is America's responsibility. Should US also go to Nigeria to fight Boko Haram ? May be Yemen ? Or Somalia ? Or Sudan ? Or Myanmar ? Obama is 100% right in his decision to get entangled in the bloody mess that is Syria.
2
Correct and forceful assessment with only one missing point, Iraq. Iraq had been the worst "mistake" of the US in recent history taht also led to the mistake in Syria.
2
Mr Cohen "conveniently" forgets that most of the issues in Middle East and Europe Yugoslavia were caused by "too much US actions" so how about just not to get involved at all and let the world be in piece? Looks like Mr. Cohen works for new cons wanting wars thus making billions. Mr. Cohen should join those terrorists, ooops "rebels" and fight along with them, just afraid that with last name like "Cohen", this talking head will not last much among those "rebels" lines.
1
Aleppo may seem like a glaring "symbol of failure... of indifference,...of American retreat" but is intervention REALLY a solution to a hostility that is so deep and volatile that that the moment the larger, Sunni group takes hold of greater power to rule the country, including perhaps as head of the state, that Sunnis will seek with all ardor to even the score against the ruling Alawite sect of Shia Muslims, to be met with a brutality that will horrify the West and yet on one could do much? Let's remember, the young Saudi Arabian minister has said that Assad will be forced to go if did not leave on his own. And in case you find it hard to imagine, remember in Pakistan, with about 10 percent of the Shia population, such hostilities are common (there were scores of Haza Shia who were killed recently and yet the government could do little to bring the culprits to justice.
The question isn’t of America's hesitation about seeing body bags or traumatized veterans; it's the searing intractability of this mess that even Obama, a Nobel Laureate, weeps in his heart, but finds himself lost for direction. No one can do much -- all aid of all kind is blown up with more devastation with each passing day. No one is content with the "Let-Syria-fester" but unlike Sarajego, who will assure the redrawn map, if any, of the divided Syria?
So mothers will wail and blame other mothers, young men will plunge into war invoking a sad god, and children....until we learn to live with OTHER
The question isn’t of America's hesitation about seeing body bags or traumatized veterans; it's the searing intractability of this mess that even Obama, a Nobel Laureate, weeps in his heart, but finds himself lost for direction. No one can do much -- all aid of all kind is blown up with more devastation with each passing day. No one is content with the "Let-Syria-fester" but unlike Sarajego, who will assure the redrawn map, if any, of the divided Syria?
So mothers will wail and blame other mothers, young men will plunge into war invoking a sad god, and children....until we learn to live with OTHER
3
Excellent peace, thank you. As much as I like president Ovama, but can't help with seeing his administration's Middle East and foreign policy as a total failure. His moves totally undermined prestige and respect for America. Today we see our Vice President goes to Turky and is greeted at airport by mayor's deputy! Mr. Biden apologized to Erdogan, the new Khemoni, and endorses all his nonsense. We even start sacrificing our Kurdish allies to please Erdogan. This has become the American leadership along all the details in this article.
Mr. Obama truly damaged America's leadership and opened up the door for Putin, Iran, etc. to take advantage. This left millions to be slaughtered in Syria. Remember what happened in Rwanda because of our inaction. What happened to all the talk about moral obligation?
Now even Assad regime has the guts to send his airforce to bombard an area where American advisors are stationed. Unbelievable! probably the admin is contemplating about sending a very high ranking diplomat to apologize to Assad!
Mr. Obama truly damaged America's leadership and opened up the door for Putin, Iran, etc. to take advantage. This left millions to be slaughtered in Syria. Remember what happened in Rwanda because of our inaction. What happened to all the talk about moral obligation?
Now even Assad regime has the guts to send his airforce to bombard an area where American advisors are stationed. Unbelievable! probably the admin is contemplating about sending a very high ranking diplomat to apologize to Assad!
4
My daughter the Pole last week, the Florist of Alepo this week, the latter apparently a symbol of American failure do something nobody, including Mr Cohen, is quite sure what. Sentimental appeals to America's conscience to 'stop the slaughter' are not new in American journalism, hence Mr Cohen reminds his readers of Sarajevo in the 1990s. The US and NATO did hesitate in Bosnia and it was the cause of much hand wringing at the time, but the West had clear military supremacy over the Bosnian Serbs and Serbia once it decided to act. Syria is not Bosnia and Aleppo is not Sarajevo. Syria represents a real danger to world peace, as a proxy war between global and regional players. With a myriad of competing interests in the outcome, the consequences of salving our collective guilt through some kind of military action, which will prove quickly unsustainable for the very reasons cited here, could, nonetheless, be utterly horrendous. It's not America's war and, if it were, America would have to be prepared to inflict and suffer significant casualties to win it - whatever that means. Such a pity William Pfaff is no longer around.
5
I applaud this article. US inaction in this admittedly complicated war drives some of us crazy--we actually realize these poor Syrian civilians are are real and normal folks.
Obama's foreign policy choices regarding Syria--and his motivations--will not be praised by historians later. Syria was not Iraq or Afghanistan or Libya. Sarajevo is indeed a closer analogue.
Obama's foreign policy choices regarding Syria--and his motivations--will not be praised by historians later. Syria was not Iraq or Afghanistan or Libya. Sarajevo is indeed a closer analogue.
3
My colleagues, the doctors who are dealing with the mangled bodies from barrel bombs must be helped.
They got together and wrote a letter, pleaded with President Obama for help.
In America we are used to sterile surgical suites, Trauma one hospitals with orthopedic surgeons, vascular and cardiothoracic and neuro surgeons IN the hospitals 24 hrs a day. The doctors at Orlando Regional Medical Center responded immediately for the patients triaged from the Pulse Night club mass shooting. They spoke of going from patient to patient, the horror of the “high energy” bullets from the Sig Sauer MCX assault rifle. One doctor said they arrived by the truckload--dozens critically injured.
These board certified emergency physicians had access to all the supplies they needed--people lined up around the block to give blood--expert Nurses to re-hydrate with electrolyte IV solutions, who changed the dressings, monitored them closely one on one care.
Patients weren’t billed!
ONE incident--and in the TV interview, the doctors were visibly shaken.
Now multiply that by 365 days a year! Syrian doctors don’t have the supplies, the surgical suites, ICUs--hell their hospitals are rubble!! They are utterly exhausted and can’t do their job without staff, operating rooms, dressings, sterile gowns, drapes, surgical instruments.
The LEAST we could do is provide cargo planes filled with supplies, doctors, nurses, and mobile surgical units/hospitals! Make a safe green zone!
Assad is an MD!
They got together and wrote a letter, pleaded with President Obama for help.
In America we are used to sterile surgical suites, Trauma one hospitals with orthopedic surgeons, vascular and cardiothoracic and neuro surgeons IN the hospitals 24 hrs a day. The doctors at Orlando Regional Medical Center responded immediately for the patients triaged from the Pulse Night club mass shooting. They spoke of going from patient to patient, the horror of the “high energy” bullets from the Sig Sauer MCX assault rifle. One doctor said they arrived by the truckload--dozens critically injured.
These board certified emergency physicians had access to all the supplies they needed--people lined up around the block to give blood--expert Nurses to re-hydrate with electrolyte IV solutions, who changed the dressings, monitored them closely one on one care.
Patients weren’t billed!
ONE incident--and in the TV interview, the doctors were visibly shaken.
Now multiply that by 365 days a year! Syrian doctors don’t have the supplies, the surgical suites, ICUs--hell their hospitals are rubble!! They are utterly exhausted and can’t do their job without staff, operating rooms, dressings, sterile gowns, drapes, surgical instruments.
The LEAST we could do is provide cargo planes filled with supplies, doctors, nurses, and mobile surgical units/hospitals! Make a safe green zone!
Assad is an MD!
6
Roger is right about Syria, but much too generous to Bill Clinton regarding Sarajevo. He encouraged the Bosnians with his campaign rhetoric, and the. As president stood idly by while the Serbs took thousands of men and boys off to slaughter.
2
I was in agreement until the part about the "red line" being Obama's biggest mistake. I happen to think the red line had nothing to do with emboldening Putin. Putin doing as he pleases is nothing new. And, the red line did stop the Syrian government's use of poison gas--which was the whole point of issuing the red line. Where President Obama may have erred, was that he didn't immediately try to organize a coalition to try to pressure Assad to stop slaughtering civilians, and children, at the start of the protests. I think it's also important to acknowledge that the vast majority of civilian deaths have not been caused by poisonous gas, but by conventional weapons and airstrikes. The "red line" had almost nothing to do with over 400,000 mostly civilian deaths.
America's lack of action in Syria is not Obama's mistake. It's the American People's mistake. If the American people understood or cared about the plight of Syrian's, they'd put pressure on the government to act. Its that simple. Shucks, we can't even get motivated to help a mere 10,000 refugees find safety behind our Lady Liberty.
America's lack of action in Syria is not Obama's mistake. It's the American People's mistake. If the American people understood or cared about the plight of Syrian's, they'd put pressure on the government to act. Its that simple. Shucks, we can't even get motivated to help a mere 10,000 refugees find safety behind our Lady Liberty.
2
Aleppo is above all the symbol of the degraded state of the Muslim world, which contributes to Aleppo's problems without doing anything about them. Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey accept huge, destabilizing numbers of refugees but allow the problems that produce these refugees to continue festering. If we get involved, all the other players will maneuver to use our involvement against their opponents in all the local struggles that contribute to Aleppo's agony.
8
The Middle East used to be a Strategic Region for the U.S, but It's not anymore. The U.S is now the 3rd biggest Oil Producer behind Russia and Saudi Arabia. Oil will go the same way Coal is going now. The World next Strategic region is Asia and President Obama who thinks in long terms (25-50 Years) understands that. Hence his Pivot to Asia Policy.
As Cold as it might sound, a Stalemate in Syria ISIS is in the U.S long term Interest. (minus ISIS). It forces Iran, and Russia a potential rival to spend spending $ Billions to protect Assad. Saudi and the Gulf States have nowhere to go then to turn to the U.S which is good for Business. These Countries have spent $200 Billion in the last 15 Years buying U.S Weapons. And that was when Iran was under Economic sanctions. To stay military relevant in front of a Iran free of Sanctions, Saudi Arabia and Its Golf Allies will have to spend in the next 20 Years minimum $500 Billion in U.S Weapons.
When President Obama talked about his Pivot to Asia, he meant it. He has traveled to Asia more than the last U.S Presidents.Asia will be the Wealthiest Region in the World in less than 20 Years. China is rising. Asia is the place to be.
So Mr Cohen retreating from Regions that belong to the Past and Pivoting to the Region that represents the Future is not a Retreat, It's Smart Policy.
As Cold as it might sound, a Stalemate in Syria ISIS is in the U.S long term Interest. (minus ISIS). It forces Iran, and Russia a potential rival to spend spending $ Billions to protect Assad. Saudi and the Gulf States have nowhere to go then to turn to the U.S which is good for Business. These Countries have spent $200 Billion in the last 15 Years buying U.S Weapons. And that was when Iran was under Economic sanctions. To stay military relevant in front of a Iran free of Sanctions, Saudi Arabia and Its Golf Allies will have to spend in the next 20 Years minimum $500 Billion in U.S Weapons.
When President Obama talked about his Pivot to Asia, he meant it. He has traveled to Asia more than the last U.S Presidents.Asia will be the Wealthiest Region in the World in less than 20 Years. China is rising. Asia is the place to be.
So Mr Cohen retreating from Regions that belong to the Past and Pivoting to the Region that represents the Future is not a Retreat, It's Smart Policy.
8
I can't help chuckling when someone insists the US should simply have imposed a "no fly zone" over Syria. Does anyone believe the Russians would have respected that? If they didn't and a US-Russian military confrontation occurred in Syria, does anyone believe the US would be willing, even able, to go to war with Russia over Syria?
Time we face reality: We don't have enough power to do such things even if we wanted to.
Time we face reality: We don't have enough power to do such things even if we wanted to.
30
If it had been done in a timely manner the Russians would have had no choice but to accept, alas hindsight is 20/20.
So let me guess...we have a 'moral imperative' to do what exactly? Add to the carnage by tossing more violence into the mix?
If any of these pundits were serious about stopping the bloodshed they'd be advocating for an end to hostilities instead of an end to the Assad regime.
What did that guy ever do to America anyways?
If any of these pundits were serious about stopping the bloodshed they'd be advocating for an end to hostilities instead of an end to the Assad regime.
What did that guy ever do to America anyways?
6
Cohen analysis of the Syrian conflict was so predictable. He addressed a part of the conflict and blamed Obama for not taking a stronger role in removing Assad.
Cohen should remind himself the fiasco started with a minor disagreement between Assad and the farmers of Syria. But this minor disagreement was extremely exacerbated by our Ambassador Robert Ford and France's Ambassador Eric Chevallier when they caused disruptions by encouraging Syrians discord with Assad. Quite incidentally, these disruptions came after Assad refused to permit a Qatari gas pipeline through Syria sponsored by Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Jordan, and certain other interested parties.
If Cohen would consider at least some of the former is true, then maybe he may realize that "regime change" caused this horrific destruction of cities and movement of thousands of people throughout Europe. Maybe he will also consider that as long as we support these types of ventures, mass migration of people will continue.
Cohen should remind himself the fiasco started with a minor disagreement between Assad and the farmers of Syria. But this minor disagreement was extremely exacerbated by our Ambassador Robert Ford and France's Ambassador Eric Chevallier when they caused disruptions by encouraging Syrians discord with Assad. Quite incidentally, these disruptions came after Assad refused to permit a Qatari gas pipeline through Syria sponsored by Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Jordan, and certain other interested parties.
If Cohen would consider at least some of the former is true, then maybe he may realize that "regime change" caused this horrific destruction of cities and movement of thousands of people throughout Europe. Maybe he will also consider that as long as we support these types of ventures, mass migration of people will continue.
8
".... Sunni Arab nations like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and the U.A.E. whose leaders despise Assad even more than we do?"
We despise Assad? Who, exactly, are "we?" I certainly don't despise Assad.
The choices in Syria are:
1. Assad.
2. ISIS.
3. Al Nusra.
Of those three, I choose Assad. Which of the three do you choose -- or do you still pretend there's a fourth choice -- "good rebels?"
We despise Assad? Who, exactly, are "we?" I certainly don't despise Assad.
The choices in Syria are:
1. Assad.
2. ISIS.
3. Al Nusra.
Of those three, I choose Assad. Which of the three do you choose -- or do you still pretend there's a fourth choice -- "good rebels?"
13
I know there are people hurting in Syria and I know it is tragic, but these people have been slaughtering each other for over 1,000 years in almost continuous war. America is only the latest in a very long line of countries and people who have tried to bring the parties together in order to forge peace. None of it has worked. We are dealing with insane people who are addicted to retribution and violence.
Budgets are a zero sum game. The $ Billions we are spending in the Middle East mean we are not addressing problems here at home. We are saying it is more important to supply arms to an Iraqi army that runs away at the first shot, than to house the homeless here at home. We are saying it is more important to support Turkey who is our 'friend' one day and sucks up to Putin the next, than to care for our elderly.
The Middle East is a mess, all we are doing with our presence is making it worse. We need to come home and help OUR people, jump start OUR economy, care for OUR displaced workers, help OUR people. Let the peoples of the Middle East decide their own fate. They in fact, are the only one who can make a difference.
Budgets are a zero sum game. The $ Billions we are spending in the Middle East mean we are not addressing problems here at home. We are saying it is more important to supply arms to an Iraqi army that runs away at the first shot, than to house the homeless here at home. We are saying it is more important to support Turkey who is our 'friend' one day and sucks up to Putin the next, than to care for our elderly.
The Middle East is a mess, all we are doing with our presence is making it worse. We need to come home and help OUR people, jump start OUR economy, care for OUR displaced workers, help OUR people. Let the peoples of the Middle East decide their own fate. They in fact, are the only one who can make a difference.
23
"...insane people who are addicted to retribution and violence."
Don't forget religion.
Don't forget religion.
1
I appreciate the passion that Cohen has for the human misery of Aleppo, but I disagree with his diagnosis of the problem.
Yes, Syria has has suffered a brutal and protracted torture and death. But it is not easy to intervene in a war when there are more than two sides in the conflict. Yes, we could have fought Syrian, Russian and Iranian influence in Syria, but they are also enemies of ISIS and to the extent that they badger ISIS they exert a positive force. (Of course, I will concede that on many occasions they have not fought ISIS.)
In the 1980's hundreds of thousands of people were killed in the Iran-Iraq war. Should we have gotten involved. Certainly not. First, which one of the horrible regimes should we have backed. Second, although the war was awful, it helped us: So long as Iran and Iraq fought one another, they didn't have the energy to make mischief for us. Of course, Bush, in his infinite stupidity, didn't understand this, vanquished Iraq and this led inexorably to the menacing ascendance of Iran.
It's terrible to see people die, but sometimes it is not exactly clear whom we should shoot..
Yes, Syria has has suffered a brutal and protracted torture and death. But it is not easy to intervene in a war when there are more than two sides in the conflict. Yes, we could have fought Syrian, Russian and Iranian influence in Syria, but they are also enemies of ISIS and to the extent that they badger ISIS they exert a positive force. (Of course, I will concede that on many occasions they have not fought ISIS.)
In the 1980's hundreds of thousands of people were killed in the Iran-Iraq war. Should we have gotten involved. Certainly not. First, which one of the horrible regimes should we have backed. Second, although the war was awful, it helped us: So long as Iran and Iraq fought one another, they didn't have the energy to make mischief for us. Of course, Bush, in his infinite stupidity, didn't understand this, vanquished Iraq and this led inexorably to the menacing ascendance of Iran.
It's terrible to see people die, but sometimes it is not exactly clear whom we should shoot..
32
the US was involved in the Iran-Iraq war, on the Iraq side, which we helped with intelligence and weapons of mass destruction. Saddam was our guy.
1
Russia was in no position in the 1990s to do much of anything about the NATO bombing of Belgrade. But now? Do you really think, Mr. Cohen, that Putin will stand aside if the US and its allies take significant, and particularly military, action in Syria?
I'm still waiting for someone, anyone, to propose a solution in Syria that makes any sense, given Russian interests there. I see, Mr. Cohen, that you don't propose any here. Maybe that's for the best, given your judgment or lack thereof. You did after all support the US invasion of Iraq, and you maintained it was a swell idea for many years thereafter. Maybe you still do?
I'm still waiting for someone, anyone, to propose a solution in Syria that makes any sense, given Russian interests there. I see, Mr. Cohen, that you don't propose any here. Maybe that's for the best, given your judgment or lack thereof. You did after all support the US invasion of Iraq, and you maintained it was a swell idea for many years thereafter. Maybe you still do?
9
Roger Cohen's former colleague, Stephen Kinzer, begs to differ on the merits of the Aleppo rebels we support:
"For three years, violent militants have run Aleppo. Their rule began with a wave of repression. They posted notices warning residents: 'Don’t send your children to school. If you do, we will get the backpack and you will get the coffin.'”
Sound like nice people? Knifer's article was a real eye opener, though apparently not for Roger Cohen.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/02/18/the-media-are-misleading-...
"For three years, violent militants have run Aleppo. Their rule began with a wave of repression. They posted notices warning residents: 'Don’t send your children to school. If you do, we will get the backpack and you will get the coffin.'”
Sound like nice people? Knifer's article was a real eye opener, though apparently not for Roger Cohen.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/02/18/the-media-are-misleading-...
8
I teach comparative law. I use the historical method to explain the evolution of law. I go back to the pre-neolithic way of life.
Before that I have to explain basic concepts. One is the "Jurisprudence of Carrot & Stick." Normally Carrot & Stick analysis has to do about econ & public policy, ie the animal being manipulated.
Jurisprudence of C & S has to do with the affect on the rider, Miachiavelli's "prince".
Stick is Coercive authority. It is expedient, works effectively & quickly but is extremely expensive, and is not sustainable over time. The wise prince uses it sparingly.
Carrot is Moral Authority/Perceived legitimacy. This takes a long time to acrew but it is inexpensive to use & therefore is sustainable. The wise prince must be patient & fosters this.
The more stick a prince uses the less store of stick he has.
The more stick a prince used the less Carrot he has.
The less Carrot a prince has, the harder it is to replenish stick.
In 2000 America's S & C was at an all time high. In 2001 we had maximum potential stick and no problem gaining allies for war in Afghanistan. But then we eviscerated our carrots in Iraq along with $3 trillion over 10 years. By 2013 when Syria & then Ukraine emerged the USA was insufficient in C & S to have any effect on Syria.
War cost $ & lives. It should be used sparingly so you have ample stores of C & S for when it really counts. This is the lesson of the folly of Neocons & GWBush. The problem is the limitations of C&S mechanisms.
Before that I have to explain basic concepts. One is the "Jurisprudence of Carrot & Stick." Normally Carrot & Stick analysis has to do about econ & public policy, ie the animal being manipulated.
Jurisprudence of C & S has to do with the affect on the rider, Miachiavelli's "prince".
Stick is Coercive authority. It is expedient, works effectively & quickly but is extremely expensive, and is not sustainable over time. The wise prince uses it sparingly.
Carrot is Moral Authority/Perceived legitimacy. This takes a long time to acrew but it is inexpensive to use & therefore is sustainable. The wise prince must be patient & fosters this.
The more stick a prince uses the less store of stick he has.
The more stick a prince used the less Carrot he has.
The less Carrot a prince has, the harder it is to replenish stick.
In 2000 America's S & C was at an all time high. In 2001 we had maximum potential stick and no problem gaining allies for war in Afghanistan. But then we eviscerated our carrots in Iraq along with $3 trillion over 10 years. By 2013 when Syria & then Ukraine emerged the USA was insufficient in C & S to have any effect on Syria.
War cost $ & lives. It should be used sparingly so you have ample stores of C & S for when it really counts. This is the lesson of the folly of Neocons & GWBush. The problem is the limitations of C&S mechanisms.
6
And Cohen isn't blaming it on Israel. That's a first!
1
Why all this fuss now after we have ignored the plight of the people of the West Bank and Gaza?
5
What "plight" was that? That they cannot develop a functional government or society?
1
Completely agree with Roger on his assessment that Syria has been Obama's worst foreign policy blunder. Yes, as a country, we were fatigued after protracted campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq (thanks, W.). However, we failed when we had the chance to coalesce international support to neutralize Assad, who should eventually be tried for war crimes. The result is a humanitarian disaster not only in Syria but all around the world , with millions of refugees stranded in Greece, Europe and elsewhere. Meanwhile, we've settle just a tiny portion of these innocent families. It's sad how ineffective President Obama, so brilliant in domestic policies, has become in diplomatic affairs.
2
When millions died in Congo, where was your concern?
Stop your ridiculous and racist Eurocentric view of global horrors.
Legions of African, Asian and Latin Americsn dead count for much more than your "oh Europe is affected, stop it please, this really counts!" What could be more arrogant, racist and imbalanced?
Stop your ridiculous and racist Eurocentric view of global horrors.
Legions of African, Asian and Latin Americsn dead count for much more than your "oh Europe is affected, stop it please, this really counts!" What could be more arrogant, racist and imbalanced?
22
The theory is that a country at war with itself will be too occupied to attack Israel and that, if it does, it will have fewer troops to attack it.
4
The siege is a tactic of war that is nearly as old as war itself. In all wars, one side loses. The rebels ought to surrender. The United States is not coming. NATO is not coming. The rebels are not unified so they could not hold the country together even if they managed to defeat Assad and his backers.
After surrender, the country will have to rebuild its civil society. As this happens, the rebels will have to find nonviolent means to remove Assad from power.
After surrender, the country will have to rebuild its civil society. As this happens, the rebels will have to find nonviolent means to remove Assad from power.
4
What about Britain and France? If there's any Western powers who can be blamed for contributing to the monstrous mess that is the contemporary Middle East, it is those two western European powers. Let them attempt to solve the problems they created.
3
I share Roger Cohen's condemnation of Obama's policy--or lack of one. But let us not forget the role of the British in 2013, which set in motion the absence of military engagement. the U.S., Britain and France had agreed on a bombing campaign. Then the opposition of Edward Milliband, head of the Labor Party, to the Cameron government's involvement led to Parliament's opposition which caused the British withdrawal from the agreement with the U.S. and France. And Obama then followed by his own "withdrawal," calling for Congressional approval which of course the Republicans ignored. So Obama bears a heavy responsibility. So do the British--the Labor Party and the Cameron government--and the Congressional Republicans.
1
Editors. Paul Krugman calls your opinion pages the most valuable media real estate in the world. Why do you allow pundits who know nothing about the mid east and learned nothing from Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan to fill up your valuable pages? Obama's caution is a refreshing sign that someone in our government realizes that invading or bombing Syria would only compound the disaster for Syria and for the U.S. While it may seem like the Russians are making headway at the moment, let's see how things look a v year from now.
5
How will American intervention make this better? We have no magic wands. We have demonstrated (in Iraq and Afghanistan) that we cannot create functioning democracies from nothing. What do do you want us to do?
1
There is something missing here. The fact is that Syria is yet more nation building gone wrong. There is a religious basis for the entire conflict. Saudi Arabia (and Isreal) long sought the ouster of Assad. Hence, the USA covertly destabilized the Assad regime and triggered the civil war. The plan was, a quick victory and replacement of the Shia/Alawite Assad dictator (aligned with Iran) with a Sunni led government (also a likely dictatorship) aligned with Saudi Arabia and more favorable than an Iran ally to all.
The rest is history and, agreed, a shameful history at that. Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and Syria all have a common error, replacing evil dictators with anarchy is not a loser. Should Obama have compounded the error by sending in American troops, or a NATO force? Perhaps. That is a dubious choice and not an easy one. The omitted history in this column makes the perceived easy moral basis for American intervention much more complicated. The real question is: Will we ever learn the error of our ways in nation building?
The rest is history and, agreed, a shameful history at that. Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and Syria all have a common error, replacing evil dictators with anarchy is not a loser. Should Obama have compounded the error by sending in American troops, or a NATO force? Perhaps. That is a dubious choice and not an easy one. The omitted history in this column makes the perceived easy moral basis for American intervention much more complicated. The real question is: Will we ever learn the error of our ways in nation building?
2
Are you calling on Obama to protect the Islamic terrorists controlling parts of Aleppo. Whose side are you on?
5
One of the Obama White House goals in redirecting foreign policy since 2009 was to make the US into more an influencer or consensus discussion participant than a leader, both politically and militarily. It's a very European notion of how nations should project themselves in the international arena. And that's what we've become. The unintended consequence is that we are no longer taken seriously if we try to resort to purchase threats or ultimatums that used to matter. Another, potentially more serious, outcome, is that the space we used to occupy as the country that could put its foot down to make something positive and decisive happen (for example, Bosnia in the 90s) is now a vacuum. The Russians have leapt into that breach in the Middle East and Ukraine, and the Chinese in the Pacific region. Obama might argue the world is a better place without overbearing American leadership. If so, many leaders of smaller countries who used to but now can't rely on the Americans would disagree.
5
as if sarajevo was somehow a victory? do you really think sarajevo would have ended so differently if clinton didnt intervene? as though the massive bombing of serbia was a good answer to the problem? as though war makes peace! like having sex makes virginity. look at ghandi, Christ! look at Columbia! 40 years of death and finally a diplomatic solution. the only reason it lasted so long is the farc was able to feed cocaine to us slobs to fund themselves.
and putin has been making moves since putin came in. period. noone emboldened him. he was always as he is. georgia, chechnya, now ukraine and syria. if you ask me it has nothing to do with the us prez. putin does as putin likes, to augment the legend and entrance a starving population. im seriously impressed his little kingdom hasnt imploded yet. assad is just as craven, but stupid.
i liked the theory about syria being about water resources, by one respondent. somehow there is always an economic solution or cause. the us has oil now, so interest in the middle east isnt as intense. you really think its about human rights? let the middle east sort itself out. let russia waste the resources.
and putin has been making moves since putin came in. period. noone emboldened him. he was always as he is. georgia, chechnya, now ukraine and syria. if you ask me it has nothing to do with the us prez. putin does as putin likes, to augment the legend and entrance a starving population. im seriously impressed his little kingdom hasnt imploded yet. assad is just as craven, but stupid.
i liked the theory about syria being about water resources, by one respondent. somehow there is always an economic solution or cause. the us has oil now, so interest in the middle east isnt as intense. you really think its about human rights? let the middle east sort itself out. let russia waste the resources.
1
This guy is the worst columnist for the NYT. At least Tom Friedman learned from his mistakes. This Roger Cohen will never learn. All he wants is for the US to do all the work fighting in Europe and Mideast, while they do nothing. Obama whom I like, is correct that Syria was his best decision, and would probably now admit that Libya was his worst. The US has to stop this ridiculous cold war mentality and stop bing the worlds policeman. When our vital interests are at stake we can fight but only then and not for other country's vital interest, especially when we have little interest.
2
The shock troops of Turkey and Saudis hole up in a sliver of Aleppo.
America providing logistical and technical support of virtual and white helmet variety.
And gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands that a tidy Salafi government was denied to the unwilling Syrians.
A comedy written by idiots in entrails and blood.
America providing logistical and technical support of virtual and white helmet variety.
And gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands that a tidy Salafi government was denied to the unwilling Syrians.
A comedy written by idiots in entrails and blood.
1
HOORAY FOR ROGER COHEN!!!
I have been dying for someone in prominence, or with the bully pulpit, to write what he did today. The eventual collapse of the EU will be on Obama's head. Or, the internal civil war between Muslims and the secular EU. His decision has brought disaster to the Middle East and the World. (So did Bush's, he is even more responsible for the ME turmoil.)
Well, James, one possible solution set is first for the the World to step up and help the places like Jordan and Lebanon and Turkey to feed, clothe and house the refugees.
Next, the EU and the West needs to 'man up' and send back the hordes crossing the Mediterranean. When people learn that they will not be accepted, they will stop coming and decide to fix their own place through one means or another.
Then, the West needs to surround Syria so that Assad gets zero help from anyone but Russia. Meanwhile, we do what is necessary to utterly defeat ISIS so those people are out of the equation. That means hard war and we'd better admit it is necessary. As for the Syrian "rebels", their cause is essentially hopeless in this generation. Assad, as a Russian lackey, will have to die before any change will happen there. Therefore, they would be better served to leave now and the West should insist that the countries that share their religion take them in, pronto.
So, James, I'm sure there are holes in that strategy but it can be adjusted, too. No plan ever survives contact with reality.
I have been dying for someone in prominence, or with the bully pulpit, to write what he did today. The eventual collapse of the EU will be on Obama's head. Or, the internal civil war between Muslims and the secular EU. His decision has brought disaster to the Middle East and the World. (So did Bush's, he is even more responsible for the ME turmoil.)
Well, James, one possible solution set is first for the the World to step up and help the places like Jordan and Lebanon and Turkey to feed, clothe and house the refugees.
Next, the EU and the West needs to 'man up' and send back the hordes crossing the Mediterranean. When people learn that they will not be accepted, they will stop coming and decide to fix their own place through one means or another.
Then, the West needs to surround Syria so that Assad gets zero help from anyone but Russia. Meanwhile, we do what is necessary to utterly defeat ISIS so those people are out of the equation. That means hard war and we'd better admit it is necessary. As for the Syrian "rebels", their cause is essentially hopeless in this generation. Assad, as a Russian lackey, will have to die before any change will happen there. Therefore, they would be better served to leave now and the West should insist that the countries that share their religion take them in, pronto.
So, James, I'm sure there are holes in that strategy but it can be adjusted, too. No plan ever survives contact with reality.
1
I have become very disappointed with Mr. Cohen as he has become a lackey for those advocating another engagement for US troops that will draw the US into yet another bloodbath and quagmire of violent religious brutality! Mr. Cohen has been very critical of Bush for starting 2 endless wars and now is critical of Obama for not sending American troops to their slaughter in another fight. Who could please this NYTimes writer!
Enough!
Besides, why do the Muslim nations, in the region, expect the US to end this internecine holocaust in Syria when it is their responsibility!
Enough!
Besides, why do the Muslim nations, in the region, expect the US to end this internecine holocaust in Syria when it is their responsibility!
2
Cohen's solution to the war in Syria:
1. Establish no-fly zone, despite Russian jets in Syria.
2. Throw in some "blue hats" into the deadly war.
3. ?????????
4. Peace and democracy in Syria.
1. Establish no-fly zone, despite Russian jets in Syria.
2. Throw in some "blue hats" into the deadly war.
3. ?????????
4. Peace and democracy in Syria.
2
So whose kids are we going to send to die and be maimed to save the people of Aleppo? It sure won't be those of any U.S. politician's, one-percenter's, or anyone's who works at the NY Times.
5
roger, I am not sure if your credibility could be any lower at this point.
This is happening not because obama - your awful employer's favorite pet - has kept his distance from syria, its because he did nothing in iran when the opportunity presented itself, as it clearly did in 2009.
When millions of iranian people rose up after a fraudulent election, obama stood by, even sought to show support for that cancerous regime while the protests of democracy seekers raged on in the streets, when innocent women like Neda were slaughtered.
Had obama helped the iranian people in their time of need, there would never have been a need to act in syria, because assad would have quickly fallen soon after - he could not survive without iranian financial and military support.
No rog, it was people like you in 2009 who strongly argued against the US intervening to protect the iranian people from being murdered outright, or arrested and "disappeared" into the massive iranian gulag.
YOU are the ones who have caused this catastrophe, and your pathetic attempt to place it on obama when you were providing PR protection for his inaction in iran is typical of a publication whose reputation is in freefall.
This is happening not because obama - your awful employer's favorite pet - has kept his distance from syria, its because he did nothing in iran when the opportunity presented itself, as it clearly did in 2009.
When millions of iranian people rose up after a fraudulent election, obama stood by, even sought to show support for that cancerous regime while the protests of democracy seekers raged on in the streets, when innocent women like Neda were slaughtered.
Had obama helped the iranian people in their time of need, there would never have been a need to act in syria, because assad would have quickly fallen soon after - he could not survive without iranian financial and military support.
No rog, it was people like you in 2009 who strongly argued against the US intervening to protect the iranian people from being murdered outright, or arrested and "disappeared" into the massive iranian gulag.
YOU are the ones who have caused this catastrophe, and your pathetic attempt to place it on obama when you were providing PR protection for his inaction in iran is typical of a publication whose reputation is in freefall.
3
The Middle East is a complex political situation most Americans, pundits and columnists cannot begin to understand, much less propose workable solutions.
The modern mess in the Middle East is in a large part created by Western forces that colonized, drew arbitrary country boundaries and supported corrupt dictatorial regimes that neglected the needs of large portions of the country.
For anyone to suggest that military intervention will solve Syria's problems after our nation building disasters in Iraq and Afghanistan is pure lunacy. In 2013, I asked the former American ambassador to Syria who would replace the power vacuum created if Assad was deposed. His answer, "That is a difficult question to answer." What was left unsaid is none of the rebel and more often terrorist groups offered a politically acceptable alternative for the majority of Syrian citizens.
Had we taken Assad out, Syria would have most likely turned out even worse than Iraq as all of the terrorist groups turned against each other. It would likely look like Libya. There was absolutely no chance of an orderly transition from Assad to an acceptable governing force.
There is no solution in Syria. So of course, many opt for the failed military intervention approach because, you know, this time it will be different.
We need to stay out and help the victims as much as possible. Of course we are much more likely to pour hundreds of billions into war than civilian aid.
The modern mess in the Middle East is in a large part created by Western forces that colonized, drew arbitrary country boundaries and supported corrupt dictatorial regimes that neglected the needs of large portions of the country.
For anyone to suggest that military intervention will solve Syria's problems after our nation building disasters in Iraq and Afghanistan is pure lunacy. In 2013, I asked the former American ambassador to Syria who would replace the power vacuum created if Assad was deposed. His answer, "That is a difficult question to answer." What was left unsaid is none of the rebel and more often terrorist groups offered a politically acceptable alternative for the majority of Syrian citizens.
Had we taken Assad out, Syria would have most likely turned out even worse than Iraq as all of the terrorist groups turned against each other. It would likely look like Libya. There was absolutely no chance of an orderly transition from Assad to an acceptable governing force.
There is no solution in Syria. So of course, many opt for the failed military intervention approach because, you know, this time it will be different.
We need to stay out and help the victims as much as possible. Of course we are much more likely to pour hundreds of billions into war than civilian aid.
4
ScottW;
"Had we taken Assad out, Syria would have most likely turned out even worse than Iraq as all of the terrorist groups turned against each other."
Syria is already many times worse than Iraq....it looks like medieval time war torn civilization..Homas, Huma, Aleppo and other cities.. Only Damascus is in good shape; not its suburbs!!!
"Had we taken Assad out, Syria would have most likely turned out even worse than Iraq as all of the terrorist groups turned against each other."
Syria is already many times worse than Iraq....it looks like medieval time war torn civilization..Homas, Huma, Aleppo and other cities.. Only Damascus is in good shape; not its suburbs!!!
"The consequences for the European allies of Obama's let-Syria-fester policy have been overwhelming." That is certainly the case, with Syrian refugees flooding the European continent. So where exactly are Europe's troops? And where exactly are the troops of Sunni Arab nations like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and the U.A.E. whose leaders despise Assad even more than we do? And what took Turkey, just over the border from Aleppo and also hemorrhaging Syrian refugees, so long to send its troops in? This is not America's fight, and whereas our sympathies should clearly be on the side of Syria's abused Sunni majority it should not be left to our sons and daughters in arms to single-handedly bail out our putative allies.
50
@Stu I agree 100%!
According to Defense News:
“Saudi Arabia has the best equipped armed forces in the Gulf region.
The Saudi military numbers 227,000 troops, including 75,000 in the army, 13,500 in the navy and 20,000 in the air force.”
Some 16,000 personnel are committed to air defenses, 2,500 responsible for strategic missiles and 100,000 man the National Guard, according to the IISS Military Balance, 2015.
The kingdom also has 24,500 paramilitary forces.
The United States, Britain and France gives them access to training and equipment.
The Saudi army has 600 heavy tanks, 780 light armored vehicles and 1,423 armored troop carriers.
Its air force is equipped with 313 fighter jets, including F-15s, Tornados and Eurofighter Typhoons, as well as helicopters.
Considered a priority, air defenses and deterrents include 16 batteries of Patriot missiles, 17 batteries of Shahine missiles, 16 of Hawk missiles and 73 Crotale/Shahine missile units.
It has formed its own air wing with confirmed orders for US-built AH6i, Apache and Black Hawk helicopters.
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/international/mideast-africa/20...
So why isn’t this YUGE military taking Assad down? One out of two Syrians are displaced. There are practically no cities, no buildings left. Its currency is devalued to 20%.
Saudi Arabia wants to stay “clean” in the Middle East. Time they showed true power; oil wealth has made them cowards.
According to Defense News:
“Saudi Arabia has the best equipped armed forces in the Gulf region.
The Saudi military numbers 227,000 troops, including 75,000 in the army, 13,500 in the navy and 20,000 in the air force.”
Some 16,000 personnel are committed to air defenses, 2,500 responsible for strategic missiles and 100,000 man the National Guard, according to the IISS Military Balance, 2015.
The kingdom also has 24,500 paramilitary forces.
The United States, Britain and France gives them access to training and equipment.
The Saudi army has 600 heavy tanks, 780 light armored vehicles and 1,423 armored troop carriers.
Its air force is equipped with 313 fighter jets, including F-15s, Tornados and Eurofighter Typhoons, as well as helicopters.
Considered a priority, air defenses and deterrents include 16 batteries of Patriot missiles, 17 batteries of Shahine missiles, 16 of Hawk missiles and 73 Crotale/Shahine missile units.
It has formed its own air wing with confirmed orders for US-built AH6i, Apache and Black Hawk helicopters.
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/international/mideast-africa/20...
So why isn’t this YUGE military taking Assad down? One out of two Syrians are displaced. There are practically no cities, no buildings left. Its currency is devalued to 20%.
Saudi Arabia wants to stay “clean” in the Middle East. Time they showed true power; oil wealth has made them cowards.
2
By "America’s Retreat and the Agony of Aleppo" you obviously mean "al-Nusra [aka Syrian al-Qaeda, CIA asset] and ISIS [aka another CIA asset] are being routed by the Syrian Army backed up by the Russian Air Force", don't you, mr. Cohen?
8
I do not understand how this is America's fault. And we have to expend our money and the blood of our children to stop.
I have a republican congress telling me that they can not afford to pay me my Social Security/Medicare when I retire here in a few years. But they have money for a war in some hell hole in the middle east where the Muslims have been killing each other for centuries over exactly how you should worship god. I don't think so. It is time for America to take care of it's own first. Otherwise there is not going to be an America to help anyone.
Besides the fight really is over water. And the drought is predicted to get worse with global climate warming.
I have a republican congress telling me that they can not afford to pay me my Social Security/Medicare when I retire here in a few years. But they have money for a war in some hell hole in the middle east where the Muslims have been killing each other for centuries over exactly how you should worship god. I don't think so. It is time for America to take care of it's own first. Otherwise there is not going to be an America to help anyone.
Besides the fight really is over water. And the drought is predicted to get worse with global climate warming.
32
What a difference two decades makes? What a difference two wars makes! The bookend metaphor falls flat when ignoring the quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan, oh the weaving, destructive tome that exists between these Sarajevo and Aleppo endpapers.
12
The answer for Obamas inaction lies on the simple fact that Iran was walking away from the deal if we did anything in Syria.
8
What hogwash, if we had bombed Assad's forces early in the war, ISIL would have conquered Syria.
No respect for Cohen any more, he sounds like a Fox mouthpiece.
No respect for Cohen any more, he sounds like a Fox mouthpiece.
36
Worst mistake, not containing Russian out of border power projections. Second, not demanding primacy of American strategic interests over lobbyest' interest promoted by the Congress.
8
I did not read all of the comments about this article, but perhaps Mr. Cohen was too easy on the readers. Yes, President Obama has apparently lost credibility around the world. But perhaps the American people are the real losers of credibility. We have turned into a nation of self protectionists above all. That means who don't even value ourselves.
Some of the commenters below have managed to come up with all sorts of flimsy reasoning, arguing that each situation is just all others. Nonsense, of course. But apparently president Obama has no control over how people see themselves, so risking anything for someone else isn't on the table. All Mr. Cohen is suggesting is a no fly zone, not total war. If nothing is to be done, then we had better get ready for total war, because that's the way the "takers" of the world react to weakness. Just check your history books.
Some of the commenters below have managed to come up with all sorts of flimsy reasoning, arguing that each situation is just all others. Nonsense, of course. But apparently president Obama has no control over how people see themselves, so risking anything for someone else isn't on the table. All Mr. Cohen is suggesting is a no fly zone, not total war. If nothing is to be done, then we had better get ready for total war, because that's the way the "takers" of the world react to weakness. Just check your history books.
12
Thank you David Radile
Best comment yet!
Best comment yet!
So, everyone give me your solution to
the situation in Syria? Everyone has a complaint and are easy to criticize but I
hear no answer! Why? Because you have none. Until you can come up with a solution, Shut Up!
the situation in Syria? Everyone has a complaint and are easy to criticize but I
hear no answer! Why? Because you have none. Until you can come up with a solution, Shut Up!
21
Solution: support the elected government of Syria, whose president is Bashar Assad. That means going with Russia, China, Iran. Simple. The terrorists inside Syria will have nowhere to hide.
12
If the US and its Persian Gulf allies would stop arming and funding rebel groups, the Syrian government could easily defeat the terrorists. It should be noted that before 2011, Syria was the most stable state in the region.
1
Support the "elected" government of Syria that drops barrel bombs on its own citizens? No thanks. Do you have any solutions that don't involve complicity with crimes against humanity?
2
This article is ridiculous. There are unintended consequences and unanticipated outcomes to any military outcome. Afghanistan in 2001 and Iraq in 2003. America's intervention did not help them then and will not help Syria now. Diplomacy is the hardest but is the most effective.
22
Please there r unintended consequences for any actions I.e. Iraq as well as unintended consequences for inaction i.e. Syria
3
How many US troops have been slaughtered in Syria?
If we stopped sending arms to the rebels paid for by Gulf States and the Saudis with assistance from Turkey, there would be no civil war.
18
Exactly
1
Should we be the policeman for the entire world? Not too long ago we had the power to be that with very little cost. Frankly that is not the case today. The rest of the world is catching up with us militarily and economically.
Centuries ago global leaders like Rome ruled the world. We chose not to do that and it would not be easy if that is what we desired. We are headed towards a world of equals. As we play policeman for the world China is working hard at becoming our equal.
Centuries ago global leaders like Rome ruled the world. We chose not to do that and it would not be easy if that is what we desired. We are headed towards a world of equals. As we play policeman for the world China is working hard at becoming our equal.
8
Faced with the realities that:
1. There were only 3 people in the entire country of Syria who thought liberal democracy was worth fighting for.
2. Congress - Republicans and Democrats - opposed taking any action.
3. The UN didn't seem to care, either.
4. There is disagreement whether the Syrian government actually crossed Obama's red line.
It's hard to fault Obama's decision to stay out. As we should know by now, we certainly wouldn't have been welcomed as liberators.
1. There were only 3 people in the entire country of Syria who thought liberal democracy was worth fighting for.
2. Congress - Republicans and Democrats - opposed taking any action.
3. The UN didn't seem to care, either.
4. There is disagreement whether the Syrian government actually crossed Obama's red line.
It's hard to fault Obama's decision to stay out. As we should know by now, we certainly wouldn't have been welcomed as liberators.
43
The problem is that Obama is not staying out.
A problem is that Obama is not staying out. He as dropped 50,000 bombs on Syria and Iraq in the last 2 years and is actively supporting the "moderate rebels" who are anything but moderate.
For all your gripes with intervention, there are equal problems without. Do not forget the 500 000 + that were slaughtered in Rwanda those years ago, of which Bill Clinton has described as his 'biggest mistake' while president. They didn't want aid or charity, they wanted guns, trained men with guns, someone to fight for them.
Such helplessness can be seen in Syria today. It's easy for us to say 'intervention is bad' because we have strong armies to protect us. Simply accepting every single person as a refugee isn't an option either. For one, why should they have to leave? It wasn't their choice to be slaughtered by the 1000s in their place of birth. Secondly, what kind of solution is giving up? Letting Assad reign his terror on the land until he dies
I truly do understand how recent history has shown us that America in the middle east doesn't work, there is no denying the failures. BUT, for me this isn't some neo-conservative war-mongering, I'm not after oil, or out for national interest. In fact, an engagement would be quite costly. I still believe in the 'perhaps naive' optimism Cohen describes. I'm a great backer of R2P, a doctrine too often over looked. Diplomatic means have been exhausted. Cease-fires aren't working.
But alas, despite my gung-ho ideals, I fear we have left it too late, with other super powers spreading their influence in the region. Perhaps this comment would have been much more useful and relevant two years ago.
But I won't let Syria go to the dogs.
Such helplessness can be seen in Syria today. It's easy for us to say 'intervention is bad' because we have strong armies to protect us. Simply accepting every single person as a refugee isn't an option either. For one, why should they have to leave? It wasn't their choice to be slaughtered by the 1000s in their place of birth. Secondly, what kind of solution is giving up? Letting Assad reign his terror on the land until he dies
I truly do understand how recent history has shown us that America in the middle east doesn't work, there is no denying the failures. BUT, for me this isn't some neo-conservative war-mongering, I'm not after oil, or out for national interest. In fact, an engagement would be quite costly. I still believe in the 'perhaps naive' optimism Cohen describes. I'm a great backer of R2P, a doctrine too often over looked. Diplomatic means have been exhausted. Cease-fires aren't working.
But alas, despite my gung-ho ideals, I fear we have left it too late, with other super powers spreading their influence in the region. Perhaps this comment would have been much more useful and relevant two years ago.
But I won't let Syria go to the dogs.
6
This was how Bush 2 ignored his father's advice-to stay out of internal politics and invasion of Iraq, dragged the US into a war in Iraq that will never end and has helped to cause the disintegration of the rest of the Islamic nations. Before this, we also did the same thing in Vietnam with a draft army so even more Americans got a chance to die, instead of the same "volunteers" who , upon serving their time were forced to serve more years of combat by the neat military trick of "stop loss".
It seems there are always people with no memory of disastrous American moral crusades past , who still see the US through the Hollywood movie lens, made circa 1945.
It seems there are always people with no memory of disastrous American moral crusades past , who still see the US through the Hollywood movie lens, made circa 1945.
20
When Christian Greece fell to Muslim Turkey and was occupied from 1453 until 1821, no European Christians came to Greece's defense. Greeks had to free themselves. Europe, claiming that Greece was the cradle of democracy, abandoned Greece.
And when European Christians decided to annihilate their European Jewish neighbors during the Holocaust, almost no one can to the latter's defense.
And as Syria exploded and refugees were pouring into Greece, were Europeans trying to help Greece? Of course not. The EU was crushing Greeks with austerity to help European bankers get their money back.
What makes you think, Mr. Cohen, that European Christians would ever come to the defense of non-European Muslims? It's just not going to happen.
But can the U.S. come to Aleppo's aid? Without strong allies in the region, the U.S. can do almost nothing for Aleppo. And the U.S. has NO strong allies in Europe or the Middle East, not one. And Donald Trump want the U.S. to align itself with Russia, which means assigning our country with al-Assad and Iran's ayatollah...even as Trump criticizes Obama for dealing with Iran on nuclear weapons.
You are wrong, Mr. Cohen. This is NOT America's retreat because this is NOT America's fight. You may support a "war for the sake of war" philosophy that puts the U.S. in a permanent state of undeclared war.
But most Americans, left, right and center, are not willing to send their children to fight and die for Aleppo.
And when European Christians decided to annihilate their European Jewish neighbors during the Holocaust, almost no one can to the latter's defense.
And as Syria exploded and refugees were pouring into Greece, were Europeans trying to help Greece? Of course not. The EU was crushing Greeks with austerity to help European bankers get their money back.
What makes you think, Mr. Cohen, that European Christians would ever come to the defense of non-European Muslims? It's just not going to happen.
But can the U.S. come to Aleppo's aid? Without strong allies in the region, the U.S. can do almost nothing for Aleppo. And the U.S. has NO strong allies in Europe or the Middle East, not one. And Donald Trump want the U.S. to align itself with Russia, which means assigning our country with al-Assad and Iran's ayatollah...even as Trump criticizes Obama for dealing with Iran on nuclear weapons.
You are wrong, Mr. Cohen. This is NOT America's retreat because this is NOT America's fight. You may support a "war for the sake of war" philosophy that puts the U.S. in a permanent state of undeclared war.
But most Americans, left, right and center, are not willing to send their children to fight and die for Aleppo.
8
Cohen's plea is not credible because he does not offer a plan to end hostilities in a responsible way.
Rather, his plea and that of many others merely asks for military involvement that does not mention how it would not aid the Islamist jihadists. This would result in an intensification of fighting and/or further prolonging of the civil war.
Given the obvious logic, one can only conclude that the real consequence desired is one of several more likely possibilities:
* Nato/Turkish/Saudi/US occupation of Syria for a very long time
* Sunni domination of Syria which may result genocide of the religious minorities protected by the Assad regime
* the continued destruction of the state of Syria
* turning Syria into a failed state
Without any responsible plan to end hostilities and promote stability, it does not appear logical that humanitarian concerns truly are a cause for intervention, but is merely a justification for it, just like in Libya.
Rather, his plea and that of many others merely asks for military involvement that does not mention how it would not aid the Islamist jihadists. This would result in an intensification of fighting and/or further prolonging of the civil war.
Given the obvious logic, one can only conclude that the real consequence desired is one of several more likely possibilities:
* Nato/Turkish/Saudi/US occupation of Syria for a very long time
* Sunni domination of Syria which may result genocide of the religious minorities protected by the Assad regime
* the continued destruction of the state of Syria
* turning Syria into a failed state
Without any responsible plan to end hostilities and promote stability, it does not appear logical that humanitarian concerns truly are a cause for intervention, but is merely a justification for it, just like in Libya.
21
Mr.Cohen is making a serious mistake by thinking that not only America, but President Obama is doing nothing to end the war by overlooking a Republican Congress that has gone out of its way to obstruct his every move since Day 1 of his administration.
In addition to this, Mr. Cohen somehow fails to recognize that any uncalculated interference in Syria might cause serious repercussions, as Vladimir Putin and Russia are also part of the equation.
While the ongoing destruction of Aleppo and its citizenry is nothing less than a crime against humanity, finding a viable solution to ending this situation is not as easy as Mr. Cohen seems to think.
In the end, the final word will have to come from the barbarous Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, since any preemptive move to remove him from power would only lead to a vacuum that would prolong this ceaseless conflict.
A lesson that hopefully, the U.S. has already learned.
In addition to this, Mr. Cohen somehow fails to recognize that any uncalculated interference in Syria might cause serious repercussions, as Vladimir Putin and Russia are also part of the equation.
While the ongoing destruction of Aleppo and its citizenry is nothing less than a crime against humanity, finding a viable solution to ending this situation is not as easy as Mr. Cohen seems to think.
In the end, the final word will have to come from the barbarous Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, since any preemptive move to remove him from power would only lead to a vacuum that would prolong this ceaseless conflict.
A lesson that hopefully, the U.S. has already learned.
4
Dear Roger,
What a way to start a comment!
We both know it is not a retreat, its an expected outcome when our country decides to play the money making game with other peoples lives. While creating ISIS, we pushed the rebels to topple Syria, but oops not working so well now.
While your running around banging your pots and pans arguing for a no fly zone and escalation is quite obvious, please answer this one question.
Why is this in my interest? I do not want to kill children, or other people, despite how much money is involved. You keep selling this debacle as a US interest, but we know better. How about marching all the greedy murderers in front of the world court and letting it be heard? Lets start with the Bush boys, the Obama opportunists, and god forbid, the Clinton crooks?
If you want people to pay attention to your journalism business, maybe start reporting on what is really going on? Your business model is going down. Why would people pay to receive propaganda? Oh by the way, how about filling us in on the latest victory of American military power?
What a way to start a comment!
We both know it is not a retreat, its an expected outcome when our country decides to play the money making game with other peoples lives. While creating ISIS, we pushed the rebels to topple Syria, but oops not working so well now.
While your running around banging your pots and pans arguing for a no fly zone and escalation is quite obvious, please answer this one question.
Why is this in my interest? I do not want to kill children, or other people, despite how much money is involved. You keep selling this debacle as a US interest, but we know better. How about marching all the greedy murderers in front of the world court and letting it be heard? Lets start with the Bush boys, the Obama opportunists, and god forbid, the Clinton crooks?
If you want people to pay attention to your journalism business, maybe start reporting on what is really going on? Your business model is going down. Why would people pay to receive propaganda? Oh by the way, how about filling us in on the latest victory of American military power?
6
In the last 2 years Obama has dropped 50,000 bombs on Syria and Iraq and killed an unknown or undisclosed number of people. It has done more harm than good. We don't even know who we should be bombing. So STOP.
8
It's easy to say more should be done. The devil is in the details. Obama is the rare leader who has absorbed the lessons of past mistakes, of others as well as his own, and applied them to new situations. He realizes that attacking Assad will only leave the door open to more chaos, worse terror, and unchecked death and destruction. It won't lead to democracy, stability, or peace.
15
Roger: the Times's readers have spoken to you about intervening in Syria. Now stop & listen to them.
19
The difference between Sarajevo and Aleppo is that Sarajevo is Europe and Aleppo is Asia, the Middle East, Arabia.
Many people in power care about Europe. A few care about Arabia. If this was sub-Saharan Africa virtually nobody would care. Just ask the Tutsi... those that were left alive.
Dan Kravitz
Many people in power care about Europe. A few care about Arabia. If this was sub-Saharan Africa virtually nobody would care. Just ask the Tutsi... those that were left alive.
Dan Kravitz
8
Mr Cohen, I respect you and enjoy your work. I admire your passion concerning the tragedy in Syria. But having supported the US invasion of Iraq, for me you have no credibility when you bemoan the loss of US "credibility" in the region. More than anything, that war and the ignorance and arrogance it exemplified are what led to that loss of credibility.
There is lots of tragedy in the world, and no shortage of brutal dictators. US military involvement isn't the solution to all of those problems.
When it comes to Russian aggression--where is Europe?
There is lots of tragedy in the world, and no shortage of brutal dictators. US military involvement isn't the solution to all of those problems.
When it comes to Russian aggression--where is Europe?
15
What Mr. Cohen and so many other critics of the Obama Administration's Middle East policy fail to acknowledge in their condemnations is the brutal cost to the American fighting force who have fought in the Middle East for well over a decade now. Female American military officers are subject to rape by their male counterparts at any given time. More than 5,000 American veterans kill themselves each year. Our federal budget has been exploded by the cost of our endless wars, which was such a nightmare by the second term of the George W. Bush Administration that the presdient's men took the costs of our wars off the books, if not off of the wallets of a war-weary American people.
The seeds of the current Middle East nightmare were sown long before either Barack Obama or George W. Bush became president, but Bush's hawking of our second Iraq war poured gasoline on a long simmering fire.
Although our current president and the U.S. are being drawn back into wars past and present in the Middle East, we can thank President Obama for trying to stop the plundering of American treasure, however fruitless and thankless such a humanitarian instinct may be.
I look forward to when Mr. Cohen will spend a column or two or even a series of columns meditating on what our endless wars in the Middl East have done to the American soul.
The seeds of the current Middle East nightmare were sown long before either Barack Obama or George W. Bush became president, but Bush's hawking of our second Iraq war poured gasoline on a long simmering fire.
Although our current president and the U.S. are being drawn back into wars past and present in the Middle East, we can thank President Obama for trying to stop the plundering of American treasure, however fruitless and thankless such a humanitarian instinct may be.
I look forward to when Mr. Cohen will spend a column or two or even a series of columns meditating on what our endless wars in the Middl East have done to the American soul.
28
Mr Cohen. It's irrelevant that some of these cities used to be part of the Ottoman Empire.
4
Obama would have been blamed either way.
So what!? He's the President. That's life.
He still is responsible for his decision, just as Bush was responsible for his decision to invade Iraq. He, too, would have been blamed either way.
That comes with being the leader of the free world.
Make the right decision, and bear the responsibility that comes with it. There is nowhere to hide from this kind of suffering.
So what!? He's the President. That's life.
He still is responsible for his decision, just as Bush was responsible for his decision to invade Iraq. He, too, would have been blamed either way.
That comes with being the leader of the free world.
Make the right decision, and bear the responsibility that comes with it. There is nowhere to hide from this kind of suffering.
2
"Who recalls that just six years ago Aleppo was being talked about in Europe as the new Marrakesh, a place to buy a vacation home?"
Yeah, really. What the people of Aleppo need is a lot of wealthy Americans buying up primo real estate for their vacation homes. Mr.Cohen hasn't a clue about the realities of life for the general population of Syria who quite enjoy the free healthcare, free education and security provided by the Baathist regime he is so keen to exchange for the Libya-style warlordism that would surely result in the unlikely event that Assad - and his Russian, Chinese and Iranian backers - are defeated. Most Syrians own their own homes, unburdened by mortgages. Mr.Cohen's time would be better spent pondering how American power lost its credibility; he might start with squandering hundreds of millions training and equipping rebels who promptly march across the lines and join Isis or al Nusra or whatever the headchoppers are calling themselves these days. What utter, mindless drivel.
Yeah, really. What the people of Aleppo need is a lot of wealthy Americans buying up primo real estate for their vacation homes. Mr.Cohen hasn't a clue about the realities of life for the general population of Syria who quite enjoy the free healthcare, free education and security provided by the Baathist regime he is so keen to exchange for the Libya-style warlordism that would surely result in the unlikely event that Assad - and his Russian, Chinese and Iranian backers - are defeated. Most Syrians own their own homes, unburdened by mortgages. Mr.Cohen's time would be better spent pondering how American power lost its credibility; he might start with squandering hundreds of millions training and equipping rebels who promptly march across the lines and join Isis or al Nusra or whatever the headchoppers are calling themselves these days. What utter, mindless drivel.
22
Well that was spot on...but we know the truth, people like Cohen is intelligent enough to understand the full doctrinal meaning of 'war is peace'
7
Amen!
1
In Iraq, we had a brutal, secular Sunni dictator brutalizing a majority Shia (and Kurd) population. He was a bad actor, to be sure, but even with all his faults, he was better than the civil war and utter chaos that resulted from our 'intervention.' In Syria, we have a secular Shia dictator, already in the midst of a civil war, brutalizing a majority Sunni population (at least some of whom are aligned with ISIS, which we are fighting elsewhere in the region). I simply cannot fathom how anyone would think the outcome in Syria would be any better than it was in Iraq. Tragic though the situation undoubtedly is, it is not the job of the U.S. to effect, nor is it within the ability of the U.S. to effect even if we wanted to, a solution to the region's centuries' long sectarian, ethnic and geopolitical rivalries.
As for America's "moral credibility," I have a feeling that to the majority of the world's citizens who are not war hawks, a recognition by the U.S. that it is not necessarily called to intervene in the world's conflicts would be widely regarded as a moral improvement over what has been seen as a self-serving pax Americana.
As for America's "moral credibility," I have a feeling that to the majority of the world's citizens who are not war hawks, a recognition by the U.S. that it is not necessarily called to intervene in the world's conflicts would be widely regarded as a moral improvement over what has been seen as a self-serving pax Americana.
14
So you're openly advocating for war crimes? Cry about it all you want, but Bashar Al-Assad is the internationally-recognized, democratically-elected leader of Syria, and the United States has no legal authority to overthrow his government. And doing so would allow ISIS and Al-Qaeda to seize power.
The American people are sick to death of endless wars and military interventions. Enough is enough already. Leave Syria alone.
The American people are sick to death of endless wars and military interventions. Enough is enough already. Leave Syria alone.
31
Democratically elected? Funny.
Sure, Aleppo is yet another victim of war, but this did not happen just recently. Assad's father, Hafiz, ravaged the country with unspeakable terror during the 70's and 80's, but you would hardly know it from international press coverage and diplomatic pronouncements at those times. The son's behavior in recent years seems almost more like a choir boy when compared to the father's brutality.
In 1977, the World Bank, in a sad fit of naivety and arrogance, had the gall to establish the International Center for Agricultural Research in the Dry Areas (ICARDA) in Aleppo, even while Hafez slaughtered thousands of Syrians. This at a time when consultants designated to help establish ICARDA had great difficulty getting visas to enter the country.
So, Aleppo lies in total ruin and the international community looks on with no taste for dispatching a massive military force to remove the Assad regime. John Kerry's pronouncements on Syria look more absurd by the day, and European countries wring their hands and privately wish that Uncle Sam will once again to the fighting for them. Once again, the US cannot be the world's policeman while Europe cowers in the shadows.
In 1977, the World Bank, in a sad fit of naivety and arrogance, had the gall to establish the International Center for Agricultural Research in the Dry Areas (ICARDA) in Aleppo, even while Hafez slaughtered thousands of Syrians. This at a time when consultants designated to help establish ICARDA had great difficulty getting visas to enter the country.
So, Aleppo lies in total ruin and the international community looks on with no taste for dispatching a massive military force to remove the Assad regime. John Kerry's pronouncements on Syria look more absurd by the day, and European countries wring their hands and privately wish that Uncle Sam will once again to the fighting for them. Once again, the US cannot be the world's policeman while Europe cowers in the shadows.
21
Sarajevo's siege happened on NATO's doorstep and at a time when Russia was in disarray. Aleppo's victims are no less sympathetic or tragic than Sarajevo's, but they have the misfortune of residing in a place where Iranian, Israeli, Turkish, American and revanchist Russian interests collide. In 1995, NATO had not been through the trauma of our ruinous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The contrast between American intervention in these two crises has nothing to do with President Obama.
3
Do you really think that having one of the militias run the country would be better?
Well, bless your little heart, Roger. Maybe if we just tap together all our ruby slippers.
These folks are hellbent on murdering each other and we can't change that. They'll have to wear each other out.
Well, bless your little heart, Roger. Maybe if we just tap together all our ruby slippers.
These folks are hellbent on murdering each other and we can't change that. They'll have to wear each other out.
10
Roger: What do you want? Obama was committed to do anything to reset relations with Iran. Look away as Iran's client ally Assad and Hezbollah killed tens of thousands. Look the other way and revoke his "game changer" as Assad used poison gas, which the latest news is he doing again ... while Obama plays golf ... again. He said nothing when a democratic resistance movement in Iran was crushed brutally. He let Ben Rhodes swindle the American people (and you) into believing the Iran nuclear deal was begun once supposed moderates looked like they had a chance to come to power there and needed encouragement, only for Rhodes himself to confess in this very paper this was ruse, and talks began with the hardest of the hardliners. Anything to add Iran to his legacy, along with the opening to Cuba (who imprisoned 1400 dissidents in one week recently -- a record for one week) and of course Obamacare, which is now also teetering. And the president after most likely Hillary will have to deal with the ten year expiration on Iran's centrifuge enrichment restrictions ... assuming Israel and the Gulf States don't have to deal with it first. Fifteen years from now, we may be talking about Obama with the same reverence we give to Millard Fillmore.
1
There speaks a true neocon. The American Century for ever. The world requires perpetual war to keep us safe from harm.
9
The 'middle-classness' of the media is wearing thin. Watching TV, especially BBC or other outlets that don't tend to sugarcoat as much as our media - but even American news outlets - often say "Be aware that this report and some of the images it contains may upset you". Oh, heaven forfend! Close your eyes. How do you think the people in the report feel about it? Do you think the one-armed kids are upset by the images they see? We have to be sensitive to the feelings of our viewers? Does anyone else see the horrible irony in this?
4
America lost all credibility in Vietnam.
Serbia was an easy target. We were lucky.
We do not lack consciousness about Aleppo, or chemical weapons or genocide. WE ARE IMPOTENT.
What do you want us to do, bomb Russia? Start a war with Russia? Putin in Syria was predetermined.
.Obama is right. Libya was his worst mistake. We cannot save the world. We should be out of Afghanistan, where our side keeps boy sex slaves.
Serbia was an easy target. We were lucky.
We do not lack consciousness about Aleppo, or chemical weapons or genocide. WE ARE IMPOTENT.
What do you want us to do, bomb Russia? Start a war with Russia? Putin in Syria was predetermined.
.Obama is right. Libya was his worst mistake. We cannot save the world. We should be out of Afghanistan, where our side keeps boy sex slaves.
27
I have no desire to waste my money helping a society that is consuming itself with hatred. I feel bad for the children... their parents have let them down. But these people - their governments and their gangs - are so full of hatred that no one in the civilized world can tame them. They seem bent on exterminating each other without any goal in mind whatsoever.
Perhaps Mr. Cohen should re-read the Times Magazine feature from a couple of weeks ago...
“We have a saying in Syria: ‘Blood brings blood.’ Now everyone will want to take revenge for what has been done to them these past years, so it will just go on and on. Blood brings blood. I don’t think it will end until everyone who has taken up a gun in this war is dead. Even if the killing speeds up, that will still take at least 10 years.”
We cannot help people who think this way.
Perhaps Mr. Cohen should re-read the Times Magazine feature from a couple of weeks ago...
“We have a saying in Syria: ‘Blood brings blood.’ Now everyone will want to take revenge for what has been done to them these past years, so it will just go on and on. Blood brings blood. I don’t think it will end until everyone who has taken up a gun in this war is dead. Even if the killing speeds up, that will still take at least 10 years.”
We cannot help people who think this way.
6
A disgraceful, but thinly veiled call of support for the Al-Queda takeover of Syria A takeover not imaginable without by the massice illegal intervention into the internal affairs of a sovereign nation, by President Obama, Turkey, and the Saudis, causing the ruin of a great nation and a huge crisis. Where is the condemnation of the Al-Queda bombardment of East Aleppo, or of the Anglo-American Saudi genocide occurring daily in Yemen?
8
Mr. Cohen, please don't advocate more American deaths in hopeless causes.Please read T.E Lawrence"s , "Seven Pillars of Wisdom' Syria pages (which I hope President Obama has read) to understand the reality of the tribes, clans, sects, and politics of that non -state.
8
Outside of the fact that we are probably to blame for the Apocalytic events in Syria, by encouraging and funding people who had no idea what they would face to challenge Bassad.....
Why should we, the USA, get involved?
I feel bad that Bush and Clinton, with their hawkish stance, have caused the Middle East to burn, but, I did not do that, and, I would not have done that.
We should get out, and, stay out, of the Middle East.
I cringe to quote Sarah Palin: "Let Allah sort it out".
Seriously.
Why should we, the USA, get involved?
I feel bad that Bush and Clinton, with their hawkish stance, have caused the Middle East to burn, but, I did not do that, and, I would not have done that.
We should get out, and, stay out, of the Middle East.
I cringe to quote Sarah Palin: "Let Allah sort it out".
Seriously.
5
We can't handle the truth. The US does not have the power to invade and occupy Syria and bring about better outcomes. Iraq proved that. Oh, I have it all - all the promises, "weeks not months," "just another six months," "the surge worked," "mission accomplished." We do not have the number of troops, amount of equipment, financial resources, time, and citizen support to send an occupying force of troops. Nowhere in this persuasive lament is any concrete request on what to do. "Do something" is not useful. The US population would not support another Iraq adventure (8 more years! 3,000+ young people dead! . Maybe there are other measures, but - we are taking some of them.
The truth is, we do not have the power to rescue Iraq.
No,
The truth is, we do not have the power to rescue Iraq.
No,
2
And just where were the other Western nations? As voices from the right complain about our incessent drive for regime change, begging now for isolationist policies, unless there is oil to be had. The neocons that constructed the war in Iraq, for regime change, for the sake of democracy in other lands — for people who are more concerned about daily life in a tribal culture; it became a cruel hoax for Sunnis, Shia and for our own blood and treasure; thousands of American lives, hundreds of thousands of Iraq lives, all for regime change and access to massive oil fields. The only reason Veep Cheney created his own no-bid contracts for Halliburton and its KBR subsidiary was to isolate and keep the oil fields for American oil companies. After all, Halliburton is in the oil drilling business.
Then there are our military academies that seem clueless about who the enemy is, who the friends are, their cultures, their religious-based system of revenge. What we discovered, but apparently did't learn from the Vietnam war was, you can win battles but you cannot kill an idea, you cannot kill the faith of the people to keep fighting until the enemy has given up and gone home. Vietnam, the Soviet debacle in the mountains of Afghanistan, our own military adventure in Afghanistan to root out Al Quaeda's leaders ... their religious faith tells them to never give up; fade into the community until the enemy leaves then rise up again and start from scratch if necessary. There is no plan for that.
Then there are our military academies that seem clueless about who the enemy is, who the friends are, their cultures, their religious-based system of revenge. What we discovered, but apparently did't learn from the Vietnam war was, you can win battles but you cannot kill an idea, you cannot kill the faith of the people to keep fighting until the enemy has given up and gone home. Vietnam, the Soviet debacle in the mountains of Afghanistan, our own military adventure in Afghanistan to root out Al Quaeda's leaders ... their religious faith tells them to never give up; fade into the community until the enemy leaves then rise up again and start from scratch if necessary. There is no plan for that.
22
Want to do some good in the world?
How about investing in American infrastructure and job-creation?
How about revitalizing the American inner cities?
How about providing quality affordable education to a larger segment of the American population?
How about securing affordable medical coverage to all American citizens?
How about investing more in science and technology?
All of the above (and hundreds more) would do immeasurable good. None would entail incinerating trillions of taxpayer dollars in places we don't belong and hardly understand halfway around the world.
When will neocons realize the folly of their ideology?
How about investing in American infrastructure and job-creation?
How about revitalizing the American inner cities?
How about providing quality affordable education to a larger segment of the American population?
How about securing affordable medical coverage to all American citizens?
How about investing more in science and technology?
All of the above (and hundreds more) would do immeasurable good. None would entail incinerating trillions of taxpayer dollars in places we don't belong and hardly understand halfway around the world.
When will neocons realize the folly of their ideology?
10
The US already outspends the next 8 countries (including Russia and China) combined on its military, but is nevertheless stretched to the breaking point attempting to honor all its worldwide commitments.
So much so that there's scant money left over from our $700 billion annual defense budget to replace or upgrade our forces' increasingly obsolescent equipment.
Nevertheless, Mr. Cohen believes we, as no other nation, have the moral obligation to DO MORE in Syria, even it risks launching into yet another trillion dollar worse-than-useless adventure.
So it turns out to be another catastrophe! At least we’ve demonstrated the “moral ascendency” and "good intentions" Mr. Cohen finds us so lacking.
So much so that there's scant money left over from our $700 billion annual defense budget to replace or upgrade our forces' increasingly obsolescent equipment.
Nevertheless, Mr. Cohen believes we, as no other nation, have the moral obligation to DO MORE in Syria, even it risks launching into yet another trillion dollar worse-than-useless adventure.
So it turns out to be another catastrophe! At least we’ve demonstrated the “moral ascendency” and "good intentions" Mr. Cohen finds us so lacking.
5
Memo To: Mr. Cohen
Regarding: Direct U.S. Military Intervention in Syria
... tell me how this ends.
Regarding: Direct U.S. Military Intervention in Syria
... tell me how this ends.
7
The casualties are inflicted by the opposition groups
also. No mention of Jabat Al Nusra, ISIS and other fundamentalists who are also killing people. These
groups are supported by Saudis, UAE and USA. Putin
has intervened but achieved nothing. Yemen is another
country destroyed by our ally with our help and
yet it rarely gets mentioned in the media. If we feel
so sympathetic to Syrians we should stop supplying
weapons and training these rebel groups and work with
Russians and Iran to find a peaceful solution. If we wobbled
on"red line" we can wobble on " Asaad must go".
also. No mention of Jabat Al Nusra, ISIS and other fundamentalists who are also killing people. These
groups are supported by Saudis, UAE and USA. Putin
has intervened but achieved nothing. Yemen is another
country destroyed by our ally with our help and
yet it rarely gets mentioned in the media. If we feel
so sympathetic to Syrians we should stop supplying
weapons and training these rebel groups and work with
Russians and Iran to find a peaceful solution. If we wobbled
on"red line" we can wobble on " Asaad must go".
6
America can't even pave its roads. How are we to continue being the policeman of the world? It's just not a role we can take on at this point.
6
"No, Syria has been Obama’s worst mistake," Unfortunately, this is true.
Now, president Obama's Middle East policy appears to be as bad as George W Bush's Iraq invasion. Obama’s incongruous intervening in Syria made its agony far worse. True, the 2003 invasion of Iraq and its consequent destruction led to the creation of ISIS/Daesh, which is far worse than al-Qaeda ever was!
But if Obama were not in such a hurry to exit Iraq leaving behind that broken country in the hands of Maliki, a quiet vindictive leader who alienated the Sunnies, al Baghdadi couldn't be that successful.
Figuratively speaking, Obama refused to put out the fire set by Bush. But Obama forgot that when you take charge of a firefighting brigade, your job is to put out ALL fires whether it's arson or accidental.
The fire spread to Syria, engulfing it. Half the population there had to flee to apparently safer areas both within & outside Syria. Obama conveniently watched it from afar thinking that he wasn't responsible for the fire.
I still admire Obama. He got us ACA, which would have been phenomenally successful but for the Republican obstructionism at every step. But that & other achievements cannot erase his culpability in Syria's agony. LBJ's fairly successful war on poverty couldn't erase his Vietnam debacle.
Obama could still fix this mess he made. Admit his fault. Apologize to Syrians & Iraqis. Then create an impenetrable safe area for all displaced Syrians to come to, at any cost. It's doable.
Now, president Obama's Middle East policy appears to be as bad as George W Bush's Iraq invasion. Obama’s incongruous intervening in Syria made its agony far worse. True, the 2003 invasion of Iraq and its consequent destruction led to the creation of ISIS/Daesh, which is far worse than al-Qaeda ever was!
But if Obama were not in such a hurry to exit Iraq leaving behind that broken country in the hands of Maliki, a quiet vindictive leader who alienated the Sunnies, al Baghdadi couldn't be that successful.
Figuratively speaking, Obama refused to put out the fire set by Bush. But Obama forgot that when you take charge of a firefighting brigade, your job is to put out ALL fires whether it's arson or accidental.
The fire spread to Syria, engulfing it. Half the population there had to flee to apparently safer areas both within & outside Syria. Obama conveniently watched it from afar thinking that he wasn't responsible for the fire.
I still admire Obama. He got us ACA, which would have been phenomenally successful but for the Republican obstructionism at every step. But that & other achievements cannot erase his culpability in Syria's agony. LBJ's fairly successful war on poverty couldn't erase his Vietnam debacle.
Obama could still fix this mess he made. Admit his fault. Apologize to Syrians & Iraqis. Then create an impenetrable safe area for all displaced Syrians to come to, at any cost. It's doable.
2
A speedy conclusion to the Syrian Civil War is needed. The sad reality is that we can not let ISIS take over Syria, we can not let the Al Queda Jihadis take over Syria and the brutal Assad Regime is too weak to win.
Too bad that just this week, we betrayed our Kurdish Allies who were winning against ISIS. They were our best hope, unlike the treacherous Turks who attacked them without cause.
So until we as a people support a leader willing to invade Syria with American soldiers and defeat ISIS, Al Queda and Assad the Civil war will continue for years and years to come.
In the meantime, everyone should look at the pictures of mangled children @ #Aleppo on Twitter to see what our lack of courage costs the world.
Too bad that just this week, we betrayed our Kurdish Allies who were winning against ISIS. They were our best hope, unlike the treacherous Turks who attacked them without cause.
So until we as a people support a leader willing to invade Syria with American soldiers and defeat ISIS, Al Queda and Assad the Civil war will continue for years and years to come.
In the meantime, everyone should look at the pictures of mangled children @ #Aleppo on Twitter to see what our lack of courage costs the world.
And what would Mr. Cohen advise that we do? Does he advise that we fight until 5,000 or 10,000 or 50,000 Americans die in vain, and what would be left but more people still killing more people in the middle east. Meanwhile, holier than thou countries like Sweden, neutral and rich from WW II, would scold America for not doing more for our minorities, for not being as moral as they are, even after we're losing our blood and treasure and they volunteer one ambulance car and feel equal in their fight against evil. And, after those Americans are dead, and Arabs are still killing Arabs, and nothing has really changed, what would he write then?
7
Agree, except with your odd swipe at the Swedes.
1
Understand that desperate people still beautify streets with flowers to assert life over death. The flower-seller is dead, his son’s terrible anguish that of a whole city.
Syria is a nation with a government. If as Mr. Cohen suggests, we should invade Syria, occupy the country, remove the current government, and replace it with a puppet government favorable to the USA, shouldn't we have Congress issue a declaration of war? I do not want this President or any future President invading other countries without Congressional support.
5
I'm in agreement that something must be done. But intervening that causes more bloodshed isn't the answer. What if there were one or more ways to establish a lasting peace without more deaths and wounded? In this same paper there's a column about Columbia. Surely looking for ways to resolve these conflicts that doesn't use force and cohortion and violence is worth examining and trying.
1
Cohen wants "Belated American intervention" in Syria.
That is the current drive of the hawks gathered around the hoped for Hillary Administration. There are demands for this appearing everywhere.
This is an awful idea. It is another Iraq War. We can no more save Aleppo by intervening than we saved Fallujah or Mosul.
The only thing we could do to help Syrians would be to stop supporting the insurgents who are tearing at them. Just stop. They are far worse than Assad, though he is not beauty either.
The whole regime change project is Syria is a fiasco. Just stop.
Jumping in deeper to intervene more completely could only make it all worse, at great expense in blood and money to the US, and Syrian civilian blood too.
That is the current drive of the hawks gathered around the hoped for Hillary Administration. There are demands for this appearing everywhere.
This is an awful idea. It is another Iraq War. We can no more save Aleppo by intervening than we saved Fallujah or Mosul.
The only thing we could do to help Syrians would be to stop supporting the insurgents who are tearing at them. Just stop. They are far worse than Assad, though he is not beauty either.
The whole regime change project is Syria is a fiasco. Just stop.
Jumping in deeper to intervene more completely could only make it all worse, at great expense in blood and money to the US, and Syrian civilian blood too.
53
Mark, I was against even the first Gulf war. GHW Bush did the best job he could. He stopped when his UN mandate ended. He is a wise man, but 'didn't get no respect' as he always came across as a wimp. W Bush wanted to best his father. He was impulsive, unthinking, incurious and he didn't listen to his father. He destroyed Iraq, unnecessarily. Post-war management was disastrous. If Maliki wasn't given that much power, things could have turned out a lot better. Eventually ISIS was formed.
Then came president Obama on the scene. His incongruous intervening in Syria caused so much agony for Syrians. Since Obama was elected president we all are responsible for his mistake too. I fully agree with Mr Cohen.
One way or another we have to relieve the agony of Syria. Stop Assad's butchering one way or another. Create a no-fly zone for Syrian planes. Threaten him, whichever way that is effective. Then create a safe area for any & all Syrians who wants to go there, regardless what it costs. That area should be guarded at any cost.
Continue fighting ISIS, which is the modern Nazis. al Baghdadi maybe as charismatic as Hitler. Young men & women who haven't seen him or even heard him flock to him, declare their allegiance to him! He is far worse than bin Laden ever was. You can't deny reality because it's afar.
Then came president Obama on the scene. His incongruous intervening in Syria caused so much agony for Syrians. Since Obama was elected president we all are responsible for his mistake too. I fully agree with Mr Cohen.
One way or another we have to relieve the agony of Syria. Stop Assad's butchering one way or another. Create a no-fly zone for Syrian planes. Threaten him, whichever way that is effective. Then create a safe area for any & all Syrians who wants to go there, regardless what it costs. That area should be guarded at any cost.
Continue fighting ISIS, which is the modern Nazis. al Baghdadi maybe as charismatic as Hitler. Young men & women who haven't seen him or even heard him flock to him, declare their allegiance to him! He is far worse than bin Laden ever was. You can't deny reality because it's afar.
2
Why has American power lost credibility? Because it continually intervenes and continually fails to bring peace. In fact there is no reason to believe that it has the power to bring peace in the Middle East. The invasion of Iraq, supported by Cohen, did the opposite.
What is Cohen's plan for Syria? What if the US sent massive forces there, a la Iraq, overthrowing Assad - who would then be able to control the country? There is no US-friendly faction which could do it. The jingoism which has always been advocated by Cohen is not a solution for the Middle East.
What is Cohen's plan for Syria? What if the US sent massive forces there, a la Iraq, overthrowing Assad - who would then be able to control the country? There is no US-friendly faction which could do it. The jingoism which has always been advocated by Cohen is not a solution for the Middle East.
86
America didn't retreat from the world stage.
Barack Obama did.
Barack Obama did.
8
Perhaps his wisest move.
7
Here is a recent column that would be helpful to read to understand a little more about what is being sold to people.
https://markcurtis.wordpress.com/2016/08/22/we-know-about-the-lies-over-...
https://markcurtis.wordpress.com/2016/08/22/we-know-about-the-lies-over-...
2
I am so horrified at the American governments betrayal of the Kurds in favour of a Fascist like Erdogan that I can hardly find the words to express the danger to world peace that this signifies. Forget Aleppo as a symbol. Aleppo is a tragedy. Take note of this......In the name of the American people the US government has tacitly supported Erdogan's backroom deal with ISIS by which ISIS murderers left Jarabulus the night before Turkish troops and their allies carried out a fake assault on the town. Kurds sacrificed their real blood to drive out ISIS from territory it had occupied. This US unilateralism is the reason Europe sometimes groans at the idea of yet another fine mess in which we will be embroiled. I can hardly believe the State Department did this but they did.
13
Hungary 1956.
1
I don't disagree with your assessment, but when will Europe--and the rat of the world--finally step up and take the action it always expects America to provide on their behalf?
1
Roger Cohen: “Don’t just sit there, do something!”
Rest of the U.S.: “Don’t just do something, sit there!”
Rest of the U.S.: “Don’t just do something, sit there!”
15
Well put!
"All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone." -- Blaise Pascal
"All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone." -- Blaise Pascal
4
So John: Let the panzers roll and the Junkers dive?
1
"America's retreat... American power has lost credibility, moral conviction has eroded..."?
MORE NeoCon nonsense!
The US "lost credibility" when it invaded Iraq on lies! And further, when it meddled in Egypt, Libya, etc, etc... All to DISASTROUS ends!
"Moral conviction"?
How about the moral principles of NOT meddling in a civil war, not making a bad situation worse, and not throwing away more servicepeople's lives and more $trillions?
The Middle East is generally WORSE off for the meddling of the US and Europe, and the sooner policy-makers accept this fact and not throw more lives and money down a rat-hole doing the SAME thing over and over again to prove the original folly was somehow "right'!
I imagine the writer was among those fulminating against the "retreat" from Vietnam too...?
MORE NeoCon nonsense!
The US "lost credibility" when it invaded Iraq on lies! And further, when it meddled in Egypt, Libya, etc, etc... All to DISASTROUS ends!
"Moral conviction"?
How about the moral principles of NOT meddling in a civil war, not making a bad situation worse, and not throwing away more servicepeople's lives and more $trillions?
The Middle East is generally WORSE off for the meddling of the US and Europe, and the sooner policy-makers accept this fact and not throw more lives and money down a rat-hole doing the SAME thing over and over again to prove the original folly was somehow "right'!
I imagine the writer was among those fulminating against the "retreat" from Vietnam too...?
103
Bit selective aren't we? What about Kenya, North Korea, the Congo, northen Nigeria, not to mention China and the new Soviet Russia. Lots of bad things going on there for our busy interventionists to fix — no doubt with all the success of Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq.
55
Mr. Cohen is banging the drums for another US intervention in a civil war halfway around the world!
Must we repeat history so quickly? Can’t we wait to open another hopeless military involvement until we’ve figured out how to extricate ourselves from the ventures initiated by Field Marshall Cheney and Admiral of the Fleet Rumsfeld?
Have we learned nothing from our disastrous interventions in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya? Will the Syrian civilian population be spared more suffering if US military forces join in the fray with Russia, the Assad regime, ISIS, Turkey, the Kurds, and the dozen or so rebel groups?
The US/UN mission in Bosnia was undertaken to support the Bosnian government. We could identify friends and enemies in that conflict. Which of the warring factions in Syria are worthy of our support? Which show promise of being able to end the conflict by defeating the other factions and restoring order?
Mr. Cohen, your desire to help the civilian population of Syrian is commendable. Your demand for the US to wage peace through military intervention is naïve.
Must we repeat history so quickly? Can’t we wait to open another hopeless military involvement until we’ve figured out how to extricate ourselves from the ventures initiated by Field Marshall Cheney and Admiral of the Fleet Rumsfeld?
Have we learned nothing from our disastrous interventions in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya? Will the Syrian civilian population be spared more suffering if US military forces join in the fray with Russia, the Assad regime, ISIS, Turkey, the Kurds, and the dozen or so rebel groups?
The US/UN mission in Bosnia was undertaken to support the Bosnian government. We could identify friends and enemies in that conflict. Which of the warring factions in Syria are worthy of our support? Which show promise of being able to end the conflict by defeating the other factions and restoring order?
Mr. Cohen, your desire to help the civilian population of Syrian is commendable. Your demand for the US to wage peace through military intervention is naïve.
31
The anti-Assad hostility does not make sense. Considering the culture of
violence in the area he is not the worst. He has protected the minorities like the Christians who are supporting him in fear of the alternative.
He has never threatened the West and over many years has
scrupulously respected the truth with Israel. He has shown no interest in
promoting the jihadists after having lived and practiced ophthalmology in London over many years. he has become basically a secularist.
Besides what comes after his expulsion ? Probably another Libya
violence in the area he is not the worst. He has protected the minorities like the Christians who are supporting him in fear of the alternative.
He has never threatened the West and over many years has
scrupulously respected the truth with Israel. He has shown no interest in
promoting the jihadists after having lived and practiced ophthalmology in London over many years. he has become basically a secularist.
Besides what comes after his expulsion ? Probably another Libya
51
Libya is a failed State; Syria is a failed State; Iraq is possibly three separate failed States. Iran and Russia are fighting ISIS; Turkey is hoping to twist its foreign policy enough to allow Turks to wander freely through the EU (one advantage she has is the storage of old combustible nuclear bombs buried in a secure site there). The U.S. is either unwilling or unable to fund and maintain its own deteriorating infrastructure and interstate highway system; however, we have a highly developed skill set which enables us to destroy the infrastructure and roadways of other countries. We have plenty of funding for that.
3
America is in Afghanistan for 15 years and yet the population is not safe even in Kabul as yesterday's attack showed. That could not be good for American credibility. What does the author propose to do there?
28
Isolationism has taken hold in the US as is evidenced by its populist spokesman, Mr. Trump. President Obama is a good man but he lacks the courage to be commander in chief. His legacy will be marred by his international misjudgments, foremost of these was his early withdrawal in Iraq, as if by withdrawing American forces, everything would naturally fall in place for the better. How wrong he was. Partisans will blame Bush for every problem but history will judge Obama harsher I believe.
9
Keeping American troops in Iraq was untenable.
President Bush failed to negotiate immunity for
our troops with Iraqi government of Maliki. That
govt made it clear they will try American troops
for violation of Iraqi law. This was unacceptable
and was the primary reason for withdrawal. Of course,
Obama had also pledged to wind down the war
in his campaign and he fulfilled his promise.
President Bush failed to negotiate immunity for
our troops with Iraqi government of Maliki. That
govt made it clear they will try American troops
for violation of Iraqi law. This was unacceptable
and was the primary reason for withdrawal. Of course,
Obama had also pledged to wind down the war
in his campaign and he fulfilled his promise.
Obama lacks the courage as opposed to the "bravehearts" W/Cheney who, under false pretensions, sent other people's children to fight and die in Iraq. When they both had the opportunity to show how manly they were and fight in Vietnam they both declined. These two paper tigers are courageous because they sent other people's kids to die or be maimed. Not!
4
"Isolationism" is incorrect. A more accurate term is "nonintervention". I advocate robust international commercial and cultural exchange. However, I do want us engaged in foreign wars, especially "dumb wars".
2
What American retreat?
The Obama administration has troops openly or clandestinely fighting in a dozen countries around the world. Obama has personally been involved in a global drone-assassination campaign every day of his nearly 8 years in office. His Secretaries of State (Clinton and Kerry) presided over the destabilization and chaos in Libya, Syria and Ukraine.
And to top it off, Hillary Clinton will more than likely be elected President in November. Her track record as Secretary of State points to dramatically increased American military adventurism abroad with its usual dire long-term consequences.
What American retreat?
The Obama administration has troops openly or clandestinely fighting in a dozen countries around the world. Obama has personally been involved in a global drone-assassination campaign every day of his nearly 8 years in office. His Secretaries of State (Clinton and Kerry) presided over the destabilization and chaos in Libya, Syria and Ukraine.
And to top it off, Hillary Clinton will more than likely be elected President in November. Her track record as Secretary of State points to dramatically increased American military adventurism abroad with its usual dire long-term consequences.
What American retreat?
10
I sympathize, Mr. Cohen, but when looking at other interventions in the Muslim world, all we've learned is that they expose millennia-old grudges, grievances that the prior dictators have suppressed with an iron fist. Our intervention in Iraq simply allowed the Shi'a majority to engage in reprisals on the now-disfavored Sunni minority, which in turn responded with violence against the majority. In Afghanistan, we now have rival warlords from Pashtun, Tajik and other ethnicities slaughtering each other. Libya has broken down into tribalism, with none of the cities united. Attempts to reconcile the populations of these places have proven hopeless because of the dearth of community leaders who are willing to put aside those differences.
The violence in Syria is terrible, but I have yet to be made to understand how we can hope that an intervention will make it better; instead of "merely" killing each other, after an intervention, the combatants will kill the outsiders in addition to each other. There has to be some willingness for the combatants to stop fighting, to seek some kind of negotiated solution, but thus far it's hard to imagine what that would look like.
The violence in Syria is terrible, but I have yet to be made to understand how we can hope that an intervention will make it better; instead of "merely" killing each other, after an intervention, the combatants will kill the outsiders in addition to each other. There has to be some willingness for the combatants to stop fighting, to seek some kind of negotiated solution, but thus far it's hard to imagine what that would look like.
53
Quite true democracy is not for everyone. Now in Iraq if we destroyed their military and removed their money nobody would really care if they fought among themselves. Making one Iraq was the biggest mistake we made, three strong states in a federation was the bet alternative.
1
Yet another liberal interventionist writing as if Aleppo, Syria is akin to San Juan, Puerto Rico i.e. sovereign American territory. Why does anybody think this about a country (Syria) that has been a Russian client state since the 1970s?
Escalation of American involvement in Syria will be interpreted in one of ONLY two ways by most people: As a way of ensuring Israel's long-term security, or as a way of benefiting the bottom line of the American arms industry. Nobody except the most naive will ascribe humanitarian motives to the sight of American ground forces bombing and blasting their way through yet another Arab city or country.
Barack Obama did not want to serve as president of the United States after somebody as disastrous as George W. Bush. Who would want to pick up the pieces following such destruction and wreckage? But Obama had no choice but to govern in a post-Bush 43 world. As Cohen and Nicholas Kristof clearly don't see, this is a world in which the United States has lost virtually all credibility and moral authority thanks to invasion of Iraq in March 2003.
Escalation of American involvement in Syria will be interpreted in one of ONLY two ways by most people: As a way of ensuring Israel's long-term security, or as a way of benefiting the bottom line of the American arms industry. Nobody except the most naive will ascribe humanitarian motives to the sight of American ground forces bombing and blasting their way through yet another Arab city or country.
Barack Obama did not want to serve as president of the United States after somebody as disastrous as George W. Bush. Who would want to pick up the pieces following such destruction and wreckage? But Obama had no choice but to govern in a post-Bush 43 world. As Cohen and Nicholas Kristof clearly don't see, this is a world in which the United States has lost virtually all credibility and moral authority thanks to invasion of Iraq in March 2003.
28
Seems more like whatever credibility we had left after Iraq, Obama successfully eliminated afterwards. And certainly we can understand Neville Chamberlain not wanting to pick up the pieces after a disastrous world war due to the incompetence of the European nobility that preceded him over a minor country with little importance in central Europe.
I remember the author was a big proponent of Iraq invasion. How well it turned out! It definitely was a great boost to Am Eric an reputation paid by thousands of Americans lives and much more Iraqi lives. How many lives are necessary for the author to learn his lesson?
21
I contend President Obama made serious errors in Syria and Libya.
With that in mind, here is what distresses me: no matter what tactics he pursued, he would be met with absolute opposition and denigration from Republicans in congress and in the media.
Republicans are much more concerned with scoring political points than addressing serious geopolitical problems and supporting a Democratic President that elects to take action toward alleviating those problems.
America is, thanks to Republicans, impotent on the world stage.
With that in mind, here is what distresses me: no matter what tactics he pursued, he would be met with absolute opposition and denigration from Republicans in congress and in the media.
Republicans are much more concerned with scoring political points than addressing serious geopolitical problems and supporting a Democratic President that elects to take action toward alleviating those problems.
America is, thanks to Republicans, impotent on the world stage.
3
George W. Bush and his enablers are largely responsible for the destabilization of the Middle East. Saddam Hussein was surely evil, but the world now sees the greater evil he was able to hold in check while in power. With his removal, a thousand-year old religious war quickly surfaced with a vengeance. Add tribal hatreds and brutal political power grabs, and apparently there is no mercy for anyone on any side. Contrary to Mr. Cohen's repeated criticisms of Obama, once chaos had been unleashed, I see no way the US, the EU or the UN could possibly restore order for very long if at all. Besides, there is enough evil closer to home to keep the civilized world busy.
7
It's Europe's turn.
5
Yes. And Jordan's and UAE's.
1
Cohen leaves out some important facts. First, Russia is an ally of Syria. That is one reason why Russia has more influence in Syria. Second, it doesn't make sense to relocate Syrians to America. If they relocate, they should stay in the Middle East. A stable democracy like Israel would make the most sense.
5
It would make even more sense for Israel and Saudi Arabia stop pushing the U.S. to bomb Iran. Another proxy war on their behalf with no benefit to the U.S. We already did that when we attacked Iraq for 9/11, an event they had nothing to do with. The pilots were Saudis. I would rather negotiate with Iranians than with Saudis and Israelis looking to bomb Iran with our support. Hopefully, the influence Israel had under a prior Congress has diminished enough to keep us out of another disastrous intervention on their behalf.
1
Whining about Aleppo, while the US funds the "rebels" indirectly with TOW missile and assists the Saudis in airstrikes in Yemen, suggests the writer is a complete homer. Stop funding the terrorists in Syria, and there would be no Aleppos.
At least a million died in Iraq at the hand of the US govt since 1991 and we continue to see ourselves as exceptional? Nothing could be further from the truth. If this country gets Trump in November, I will be the first to say that the USA deserves no better.
At least a million died in Iraq at the hand of the US govt since 1991 and we continue to see ourselves as exceptional? Nothing could be further from the truth. If this country gets Trump in November, I will be the first to say that the USA deserves no better.
17
Mr. Cohen: NY Times readers don't care. Their idea of "doing good" is electing a democrat. Seriously. That's how lost they are.
7
AACNY: luckily, you're not a reader of the NYT!??!
3
It is not that “American power has lost credibility in the past two decades”. America lost the MORAL AUTHORITY after Guantanamo, Iraq, Abu-Ghraib, you name it. Moreover America, hopefully, learned after Iraq and Libya (and, truly, everywhere else including Afghanistan), see ‘Fractured Lands’ by Scott Anderson in this very newspaper, that notwithstanding how repulsive Arab dictators were/are, it would have been better to leave them alone instead of intervening. That that would be better for Europe is obvious. The Exodus is a proof in itself that it would also be better for the majority of Arabs in the Middle East (and is corroborated by what they say themselves in Anderson’s article). I do not know whether there is a good solution for Aleppo, but what Roger Cohen proposes was discredited by the events of last 15 years or so. As to the use of chemical weapons, even today there are discussions who was the perpetrator, making the whole ‘red line’ story into, possibly, ‘red herring’.
16
How may wars and how many years must we be involved in and and fight in the middle east? We are still in Iraq, to a limited degree. We are in Afghanistan. Let people in the region step up to the plate.
16
The comments indicate the triumph of isolationism among US citizen. But history will judge Obama harshly in regards to the Syria policy. He looks as if he does not care - I wonder why?
3
If history judges Obama harshly it will most likely be because of our involvement in Syria for regime change, insisting that Assad must go early in this crisis; insisting that Assad must go as a precondition for peace talks back in 2012; for supplying Saudi Arabia with billions in weapons including cluster bombs; training of rebels (jihadists); rat line; etc.etc.
All that is needed to end this war is to stop supplying weapons to the jihadists.
All that is needed to end this war is to stop supplying weapons to the jihadists.
11
@adom
Here's a hint. It's called: the Republican Congress, which has opposed Obama on every meausre he has tried to put forth regarding immigration.
Here's a hint. It's called: the Republican Congress, which has opposed Obama on every meausre he has tried to put forth regarding immigration.
7
We can't even solve our own most pressing domestic problems, of which we have plenty.
What makes you think we can do abroad what we cannot do here?
What makes you think we can do abroad what we cannot do here?
1
Is the USA supposed to send their kids into save these ISIS rebels who are fighting Assad the butcher and poke a stick in the eye of Russia who has influenced Syria for the past 56 years? Or do we kill Assad get into a war with Russia and turn Syria over to ISIS, who then attacks us?
Please show me how the USA involvement "wins" the peace in Syria?
Please show me how the USA involvement "wins" the peace in Syria?
25
Mr. Cohen I have respected for years and still do, but on this one he is very wrong. First, the mercenary terrorists inside Syria are not the "opposition." They are largely fighters from outside Syria paid to destabilize the Syrian government. They are currently failing, thanks to Russia, the Syrian people, and Assad who did not back down in the face of superpower threats.
Second, Assad may not be the nicest guy, but he is protecting 40-some minority groups within Syria that are slated for extinction by ISIS. Most non-ISIS Syrians love him as their protector and he did win a popular election, so you can stop calling the Syrian government a "regime."
Third, it is known that ISIS has used poison gases against Syrian civilians. And, Prof. Theodore Postol at MIT claims that the first use of gas (the one you refer to) could not have come from the government areas.
Fourth, we all know that the Israeli government wants Syria to become a failed state. It will do wonders for the long-term goal of Eretz Israel. But we are Americans, right? Our American interests should go ahead Israeli interests, right?
Our interests are perfectly and intelligently exactly what Obama is doing. Obama is right on this one. If he had destroyed Syria, as Iraq was destroyed, the Caliphate would own both Syria and Iraq by now. Thank you, Obama, for being insightful and not buying the lies of the warmongers among us.
Second, Assad may not be the nicest guy, but he is protecting 40-some minority groups within Syria that are slated for extinction by ISIS. Most non-ISIS Syrians love him as their protector and he did win a popular election, so you can stop calling the Syrian government a "regime."
Third, it is known that ISIS has used poison gases against Syrian civilians. And, Prof. Theodore Postol at MIT claims that the first use of gas (the one you refer to) could not have come from the government areas.
Fourth, we all know that the Israeli government wants Syria to become a failed state. It will do wonders for the long-term goal of Eretz Israel. But we are Americans, right? Our American interests should go ahead Israeli interests, right?
Our interests are perfectly and intelligently exactly what Obama is doing. Obama is right on this one. If he had destroyed Syria, as Iraq was destroyed, the Caliphate would own both Syria and Iraq by now. Thank you, Obama, for being insightful and not buying the lies of the warmongers among us.
17
I agree with you -- although, to be exact, Julia Ioffe says the "red line" issue had no impact on Putin's calculations. Numbers elicit zero emotional responses from people. Only specific lives, like Omran Daqneesh's, do that. Or specific deaths, like Qusai Abtini's: http://www.economist.com/news/obituary/21704758-qusai-abtini-sit-com-sta...
Everyone should watch the video Roger links to, the one about the gardner. The far left and the isolationist, xenophobic right tell us that we have to harden our hearts, that we can't be making emotional decisions -- as opposed to their cool, calm, reasoned decision-making -- that Assad is at least better than ISIS. This is such garbage. Every president rationalizes decisions. They have a theory about the world; when reality doesn't confirm their expectations, they improvise; and then when it's over, they rationalize. Obama can do that all he wants. Sitting back and allowing Syria to fall apart was nonetheless an enormous mistake.
No matter what the most effective fighting force on the ground consists of, terrorists or demons or whatever, we cannot allow a tyrant to brutalize a population in this way, which only fuels the demons. But, sadly, we have.
Everyone should watch the video Roger links to, the one about the gardner. The far left and the isolationist, xenophobic right tell us that we have to harden our hearts, that we can't be making emotional decisions -- as opposed to their cool, calm, reasoned decision-making -- that Assad is at least better than ISIS. This is such garbage. Every president rationalizes decisions. They have a theory about the world; when reality doesn't confirm their expectations, they improvise; and then when it's over, they rationalize. Obama can do that all he wants. Sitting back and allowing Syria to fall apart was nonetheless an enormous mistake.
No matter what the most effective fighting force on the ground consists of, terrorists or demons or whatever, we cannot allow a tyrant to brutalize a population in this way, which only fuels the demons. But, sadly, we have.
2
ISIS is a 7th Century jihad operation funded by Saudi Arabia. The Saudis also fund Boko Haram in West Africa. The Saudis are now aligned with Israel to intervene in Obama's nuclear negotiations with Iran. I actually pay taxes to support a government which works in our interests, with Israeli and Saudi interests secondary. We already bought into their Iraq propaganda; there is no reason to buy into their Iran propaganda. If Iran is fighting ISIS in Iraq, that is a good thing. And, I see no reason to support Israel's importing of Russian Jews she can only house on the West Bank where Russian peasants bulldoze Palestinian homes and drain a scarce water supply needed for herds of sheep and shepherds. The Arabs did not build concentration camps in Poland; they did not murder millions of Jews in gas chambers. Put some of those refugees in Bavaria.
We pretty much lost our right to invade after the Iraq fiasco. We are disqualified from providing military assistance. And it's just as well, who of the many parties that came to us from Syria is actually worth helping? I know you want to look over some beheadings here and stonings there to set up a supply chain of consumable weapons for John McCain's benefactors, but guess what, we can't tell the bad guys from the good guys (if there are any), we are suckers for whichever sales pitch hits closest to our preconceived politics. We are drunk, our keys have been taken away, and it's OK.
9
Once again, Mr. Cohen only speaks to one side of an argument and he continues with the mantra that while the U.S looks on, the Russians and Syrians are contributing to the bulk of the carnage. While we were looking at the very sad situation of the 5 yr. old Syrian boy in the ambulance injured in the bombing, nothing was mentioned or shown of the young boy just a few miles away similarily injured by U.S. backed rebels.
10
This red line stuff is galling. Is it not true that the chemical stockpiles are gone from Syria? They were duly destroyed after Russian intercession to prevent US military involvement. True, the Syrians still resorted to dropping barrels of chlorine from helicopters, but that is not the same as the chemical arsenal that was destroyed. So the "red line" was enforced. Or what am I missing?
8
You are missing that he wanted a massive US attack on Syria and did not get it.
Now with Hillary's team he expects to get it, "belated."
He probably will. It would certainly turn into a disaster if he does, just like all the other disastrous interventions he pushed for.
The NYT columnists are all of them beating the war drums again, preparing the way for The Hillary Wars they support in every possible intervention suggested.
Now with Hillary's team he expects to get it, "belated."
He probably will. It would certainly turn into a disaster if he does, just like all the other disastrous interventions he pushed for.
The NYT columnists are all of them beating the war drums again, preparing the way for The Hillary Wars they support in every possible intervention suggested.
1
I am not sure about statements such as 'he wanted the war' or 'NYT beating war drums', just focusing on the facts.... And from what I see the red line was no chemical weapons and that is what was achieved. Limited perhaps, but still the actual objective.
2
Let's get the facts straight Mr Cohen....what you left out...the things you didn't say.
1-The admitted war criminal Bush 2 started this whole mess with the Iraq 2 war.
2-The arabs introduced religion to their govt't a thousand years ago which is the true cause of the factional wars there now.
3-We are on the other side of the world. The MIddle eastern countries, Europe, Russia the Asian countries and the rest of the world are not doing anything either.
So before you mouth off re Obama, check with previous three points that you omitted.
Obama could make a no fly zone or safe haven as best he can for Aleppo citizens and other refuges but otherwise HAVE THE USA STAY OUT OF THIS MESS...WE CAN ONLY MAKE IT WORSE...we started it with the Iraq 2 war.
1-The admitted war criminal Bush 2 started this whole mess with the Iraq 2 war.
2-The arabs introduced religion to their govt't a thousand years ago which is the true cause of the factional wars there now.
3-We are on the other side of the world. The MIddle eastern countries, Europe, Russia the Asian countries and the rest of the world are not doing anything either.
So before you mouth off re Obama, check with previous three points that you omitted.
Obama could make a no fly zone or safe haven as best he can for Aleppo citizens and other refuges but otherwise HAVE THE USA STAY OUT OF THIS MESS...WE CAN ONLY MAKE IT WORSE...we started it with the Iraq 2 war.
9
You just wrote an article about your child, who seems to be the right age for military service. Instead of shopping around for the most convenient citizenship, why not have her enlist to fight in Syria? Beacuse I'm sure as hell not sending my son and daughter to fight over there
91
"Responsibility to protect"....wasn't that used to get UN approval to intervene in Libya? That is until we turned the UN approval into regime change. I might suggest no one will believe that one again.
8
Dr. Zaher Sahloul is founder of the American Relief Coalition for Syria and senior adviser and former president of the Syrian American Medical Society (SAMS).
One of his med school classmates was Bashar Al Assad. Dr. Sahloul appealed to the “doctor within” Assad, without success.
Dr. Sahloul later appealed to President Obama, again without success.
Read Dr. Sahloul's own words:
"As for President Obama, Dr. Sahloul met him in July 2013, one month before the regime's infamous Ghouta massacre, and told him that Syria will determine his legacy as president. This was the exchange:
"I delivered a letter on behalf of SAMS. There was an Iftar at the White House at that time as it was Ramadan. I told him that in our letter we’re asking for a no-fly zone to protect hospitals and civilians, the things that we’re still asking for right now. Nothing has changed. I told him, ‘I think that your legacy will depend on what you do or you don’t do in Syria.’ So he paid more attention. And then he laughed and said that his legacy will be determined by other things, to which I replied, ‘But I think Syria will be the main factor.’ And he said, ‘I’ll get back to you.’ But he never got back to me. He never responded to the letter." https://globalvoices.org/2016/08/20/i-want-to-appeal-to-the-doctor-withi...
Rwanda is part of Bill Clinton's legacy.
Iraq is part of George Bush's legacy.
Syria is part of Barack Obama's legacy.
One of his med school classmates was Bashar Al Assad. Dr. Sahloul appealed to the “doctor within” Assad, without success.
Dr. Sahloul later appealed to President Obama, again without success.
Read Dr. Sahloul's own words:
"As for President Obama, Dr. Sahloul met him in July 2013, one month before the regime's infamous Ghouta massacre, and told him that Syria will determine his legacy as president. This was the exchange:
"I delivered a letter on behalf of SAMS. There was an Iftar at the White House at that time as it was Ramadan. I told him that in our letter we’re asking for a no-fly zone to protect hospitals and civilians, the things that we’re still asking for right now. Nothing has changed. I told him, ‘I think that your legacy will depend on what you do or you don’t do in Syria.’ So he paid more attention. And then he laughed and said that his legacy will be determined by other things, to which I replied, ‘But I think Syria will be the main factor.’ And he said, ‘I’ll get back to you.’ But he never got back to me. He never responded to the letter." https://globalvoices.org/2016/08/20/i-want-to-appeal-to-the-doctor-withi...
Rwanda is part of Bill Clinton's legacy.
Iraq is part of George Bush's legacy.
Syria is part of Barack Obama's legacy.
5
I fail to understand why Mr. Assad is still here.
2
Who would pick to succeed Assad? Maybe we should send HRC over there so we can check out here diplomatic skills.
Mr. Assad is there because there is no one to replace him!!!
Mr. Assad is there because there is no one to replace him!!!
2
We should have ISIS in charge in Syria by now. At least we would if it had been up to the neocons in Washington.
1
@Judyw -- The point of getting rid of him is just to get rid of him. Syria will remain a mess, but a mess without him is better than a mess with him, and his disappearance from the world scene would cheer me up.
1
I'm trying to think of one "humanitarian" interventions that Roger Cohen has advocated for that actually turned out well. I just can't think of any. The Libyan intervention that Cohen strongly advocated for has made that country a failed state. It has become a haven for Al Qaeda affiliates and ISIS. Thousands of refugees have died while trying to leave Libya.
40
Syria has been a Russian/USSR client state since long before Putin. We should keep that in perspective.
If we have learned anything in the past 70 years following WWII, it is that we cannot solve the problems of the Middle East, and that we and the Western world have had a hand in creating many of those same problems. It's time to stop digging when you find yourself in a bottomless pit.
Ultimately those in the Middle East must come to grips with the regional issues and create their own solutions. Self determination. Launching various US military operations in the tribal-religious-fake borders mess that is the Middle East is like picking a scab--it will never heal.
In the interim, our national interest in controlling ISIS is necessary but we should not forget that none of the various strongmen from Russia, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Turkey or Iran will allow the continued existence of a radical faction that threatens their own power and economic interests.
If we have learned anything in the past 70 years following WWII, it is that we cannot solve the problems of the Middle East, and that we and the Western world have had a hand in creating many of those same problems. It's time to stop digging when you find yourself in a bottomless pit.
Ultimately those in the Middle East must come to grips with the regional issues and create their own solutions. Self determination. Launching various US military operations in the tribal-religious-fake borders mess that is the Middle East is like picking a scab--it will never heal.
In the interim, our national interest in controlling ISIS is necessary but we should not forget that none of the various strongmen from Russia, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Turkey or Iran will allow the continued existence of a radical faction that threatens their own power and economic interests.
3
How can the leaders from Clinton, Bush, and Obama, who have taken us down a blundering 20-year road to defeat answer for their sins? Certainly not by running a blundering Hillary Clinton to smile her way through another four or eight years of the same ineptitude she has displayed while riding her husband's womanizing coattails. May Mr. Trump, who at least talks directly and has a streak of common sense judgment, can send the sweet-talking Bush-Obama-Clinton crowd off to pasture and return us to a peacetime economy with a fairer cut of the economic pie.
4
If the problem is in Africa we ignored it - remember Hutu-Tutsi massacres in Rwanda? If the problem is in Middle East (Asia) we ignore it. IF the problem is in South America we ignore it to - remember all the dictators massacring citizens in Argentina and Chile. But if the problem were to be in Europe (Bosnia) we intervene.
That is how it is done and the whole world knows about it.
That is how it is done and the whole world knows about it.
2
We racked up 3 trillion in debt from the Iraqi debacle, and guess what - everything still collapsed. That's 3 trillion that was not spent on the urgent needs of America. And as others mentioned, not one word about how Congress abdicated its responsibilities - again. Finally, if you want to really stop war, then stop making war. Stop being the world's largest arms dealer. Stop war profiteering.
20
The US is not obligated to keep everyone in the world safe from the bad guys.
Most especially, when a nation such as Syria decides upon a course of action that propels it to hatred based on the writings of a 7th century tribal witch doctor, the consequences of its rulers obeying those writings are what you see today: Islam is a religion of violence, whether that violence is directed outward or inward.
When the people of Syria realize that there's a better way to live lives as human beings, as opposed to living as beaten-down submissives to a non-existent supernatural being, then perhaps the US can assist their efforts to beat down the mullahs and the imams and the ayatollahs who support the tyrants - Assad or some other Caliph - who rule over them.
Most especially, when a nation such as Syria decides upon a course of action that propels it to hatred based on the writings of a 7th century tribal witch doctor, the consequences of its rulers obeying those writings are what you see today: Islam is a religion of violence, whether that violence is directed outward or inward.
When the people of Syria realize that there's a better way to live lives as human beings, as opposed to living as beaten-down submissives to a non-existent supernatural being, then perhaps the US can assist their efforts to beat down the mullahs and the imams and the ayatollahs who support the tyrants - Assad or some other Caliph - who rule over them.
6
Aleppo: The Obama Legacy.
4
Obama didn't start Aleppo.
Obama can't end Aleppo.
Only Bashar al-Assad can do that -- or we're left with another Iraq.
Obama can't end Aleppo.
Only Bashar al-Assad can do that -- or we're left with another Iraq.
6
The great majority of Republican and Trump expositions of their actual policies, as opposed to their prejudices, are obliged to contain the words Obama and Clinton.
Mr. Cohen, I can imagine that Sarajevo, compared to Aleppo was still a better place between 1992-1996. There were not so many warring parties in Bosnia than in today's Syria.
It's true that Aleppo is "alone to face the violent whims of President Vladimir Putin and President Bashar al-Assad."
Back in mid 1990s Russia was mired in a political turmoil and on the verge of economic collapse. Boris Yeltsin was preoccupied with the war in Chechnya. Were Vladimir Putin in power and Russia's economy in better shape, I doubt if Bill Clinton would have authorised NATO airstrikes on the Serbs.
It's true that Aleppo is "alone to face the violent whims of President Vladimir Putin and President Bashar al-Assad."
Back in mid 1990s Russia was mired in a political turmoil and on the verge of economic collapse. Boris Yeltsin was preoccupied with the war in Chechnya. Were Vladimir Putin in power and Russia's economy in better shape, I doubt if Bill Clinton would have authorised NATO airstrikes on the Serbs.
7
Turkey: the elephant in the room.
10
Russia: The elephant's trunk.
2
There is a worse outcome than the current situation; that would be with us there , with boots on the ground, fighting EVERY entity there at some point in time (as none of them really like or want us) , including Russians after they've 'mistakenly' bombed some of our troops. We should not be involved there.
18
The US needs to stay out of Syria. Period.
52
Every war creates a horrendous images and unforgivable mistakes. Syrian war is not exclusion.
We are slowly inching towards the end of the second decade of 21st century
in fact , Syrian war belong to a history which we can call Islamic world demise, started late 1980's.
When USSR collapsed and CIA beloved Mujahideen ( freedom fighters ) was let free by US government, Islamic world face its own dark reality. Islamic extremism.
Islamic extremism slowly invaded entire Islamic world from Morocco to Bangladesh Turkey to Nigeria.
Syria is one part of this big history, 30 years of religious wars in Islamic world with the influence of west and east spiraled down to catastrophe.
Pivotal pint was 9/11 and Iraq war.
Today the status of middle east is simply disintegrating, US alone cannot hold together. For that reason blaming Obama administration is quite unfair on Cohens side.
We created a quite chaotic political and religious quagmire in middle east.
Things will be sort out eventually, but will not be quick.
We are slowly inching towards the end of the second decade of 21st century
in fact , Syrian war belong to a history which we can call Islamic world demise, started late 1980's.
When USSR collapsed and CIA beloved Mujahideen ( freedom fighters ) was let free by US government, Islamic world face its own dark reality. Islamic extremism.
Islamic extremism slowly invaded entire Islamic world from Morocco to Bangladesh Turkey to Nigeria.
Syria is one part of this big history, 30 years of religious wars in Islamic world with the influence of west and east spiraled down to catastrophe.
Pivotal pint was 9/11 and Iraq war.
Today the status of middle east is simply disintegrating, US alone cannot hold together. For that reason blaming Obama administration is quite unfair on Cohens side.
We created a quite chaotic political and religious quagmire in middle east.
Things will be sort out eventually, but will not be quick.
7
The civil war in Syria is a tragedy. That is beyond question. The tragedy was not started, and it cannot be stopped, by the United States. The Assad regime and ISIS kill civilians indiscriminately and without consequence or remorse. The killing in Syria is not so different from the killing in Yemen, Kenya, Nigeria, South Sudan. Intervention in any of those places is no more likely to improve life for the people of those countries than intervention in Iraq improved life for Iraqis.
Perhaps Roger Cohen is correct when he asserts that, "No outcome in Syria could be worse than the current one." That does not mean that American intervention in Syria would improve the outcome for Syrians.
Perhaps Roger Cohen is correct when he asserts that, "No outcome in Syria could be worse than the current one." That does not mean that American intervention in Syria would improve the outcome for Syrians.
18
REALITY-CHECK: Sarajevo was part of a war between multiple identifiable parties that could be brought to the table
Syria is a stupid example of outsiders playing HRC, Rice, & Powers as complete fools to do their bidding
There is exactly one reason that there ever was a civil-war in Syria:
A bunch of Warlords, wannabe-Saddams, and wannabe-Ali-AlBagdadis, thought that they could rope the US into taking down the existing govenment for them. Otherwise, they would have never started this rebellion.
We have no business getting involved in other people's civil wars, unless, and until we are willing to Pottery-Barn the situation by taking over the country involved and administering it OURSELVES for another 20-30 years until the populace develops the civil habits necessary to sustain broadly participatory self-government.
The BIG problem in backward societies is that the public at large will not be strong enough to resist the 100% predictable efforts of Warlords and StrongMen to rule as autocrats
Syria is a stupid example of outsiders playing HRC, Rice, & Powers as complete fools to do their bidding
There is exactly one reason that there ever was a civil-war in Syria:
A bunch of Warlords, wannabe-Saddams, and wannabe-Ali-AlBagdadis, thought that they could rope the US into taking down the existing govenment for them. Otherwise, they would have never started this rebellion.
We have no business getting involved in other people's civil wars, unless, and until we are willing to Pottery-Barn the situation by taking over the country involved and administering it OURSELVES for another 20-30 years until the populace develops the civil habits necessary to sustain broadly participatory self-government.
The BIG problem in backward societies is that the public at large will not be strong enough to resist the 100% predictable efforts of Warlords and StrongMen to rule as autocrats
5
You are very wrong: Sarajevo was also an example of outsiders (Serbia in the first place, and Croatia) who fought each other in order to divide Bosnia.
1
Syria is NOT US war. Yes people suffer there, but as recent history shows the US military intervention will likely lead to even more suffering, not less. If you want to help, do it on your own. Stop asking others to sacrifice their lives so that you will feel good.
10
Obama is coasting. Talk about Hillary and the other candidates. Not a single one said the word "Syrians" in their acceptances speeches, nor had any plan to help cancel the U.S. defacto deal with Russia to cooperate over ISIS and let the Assad/Putin/Khomeini gang ravage Syria. Demand the great powers redeem their pledge to airdrop food and supplies by June 1 (two months ago) if Assad didn't end the sieges. #DropFoodNotBombs #PromotingEnduringPeace
1
The civil war in Syria started in 2011 as part of the Arab Spring. Who was behind that? Was it the CIA?
It is absurd to criticize Russia for reasserting its historic control of Crimea, especially after the US advanced NATO right up to Russia's border.
It is absurd to criticize Russia for reasserting its historic control of Crimea, especially after the US advanced NATO right up to Russia's border.
6
Roger, if the mess in Syria bothers you so much, why don't you and your family go over there and join the fight, instead of encouraging our armchair warrior politicians to send more innocent GIs to die fighting an unwinnable war, no matter which side we back? With your newly-minted Polish daughter in tow, you could even call it an international mission. In the unlikely event any of you survives, much less accomplishes anything positive over there, let us know how your adventure works out.
31
Here we go again, Cohen confusing a brutal campaign for Saudi Wahhabi expansion into Syria as a struggle for democracy by "opposition groups".
Blame Obama all you want, but the United States will never burn American treasure and blood to help bloody Saudi Wahhabism swallow Syria whole!
Blame Obama all you want, but the United States will never burn American treasure and blood to help bloody Saudi Wahhabism swallow Syria whole!
14
Wow, I thought I was reading a HC sermon. Yesterday's darlings are today's villains. I have been writing for years how US foreign policy favors Israel and the Gulf over logic and integrity. The US had no issues when Assad's father wiped out the Muslim Brotherhood in Hama nor when the CIA shipped suspects to be tortured in Syria during the Iraq war. Same as what happened in Iraq when the US ambassador there gave a green light for the invasion of Kuwait.
So Mr. Cohen, do you think that Iraq is better off after the US intervention? Do you think that regime change brought about prosperity to the Iraqis? Did you invite Christian refugees from Iraq to live with you? Are you prepared to invite Christian refugees from Syria to live with you?
This is nothing but blowback from wretched US and UK led regime changes. Nothing less, nothing more. Libya is another example of disgraceful intervention. So is Yemen. I say we better start looking inward before we cast bombs.
So Mr. Cohen, do you think that Iraq is better off after the US intervention? Do you think that regime change brought about prosperity to the Iraqis? Did you invite Christian refugees from Iraq to live with you? Are you prepared to invite Christian refugees from Syria to live with you?
This is nothing but blowback from wretched US and UK led regime changes. Nothing less, nothing more. Libya is another example of disgraceful intervention. So is Yemen. I say we better start looking inward before we cast bombs.
11
Moslems must be left alone to kill each other. This way they can leave the rest of us alone.
It is unfortunate, but the islamic teachings breed violence against nearby groups, whatever they are. It may sound inhumane, but the 'west' must erect high fences against refugees, just as Israel had done. Most of the other religions in the Arab world have left by now.
It is unfortunate, but the islamic teachings breed violence against nearby groups, whatever they are. It may sound inhumane, but the 'west' must erect high fences against refugees, just as Israel had done. Most of the other religions in the Arab world have left by now.
2
"The optimism, perhaps naïve, about a perfectible world that led to the endorsement by all United Nations member states in 2005 of the Responsibility to Protect . . .has died." Good riddance! Who needs or mourns naivete? Ideals, yes; naivete, no.
The siren song of the counter factual.
Mr. Cohen, I don't always agree with your beautifully chosen words, but in this instance I agree with every one of them. Thank you for articulating this singular failure of American Resolve to do what ought to have been right.
2
What is left in tatters is Roger Cohen's reputation as a writer of anything meaningful to say. The past year or so he has wavered off the path and is now lost in the wilderness.
5
What self-righteous poppycock! Roger Cohen bemoans our indifference, especially in the face of war crimes:
“What message will we send if a dictator can gas hundreds of children to death in plain sight and pay no price?”
Cohen should turn inward and ask the far more relevant question:
"What message will we send our children if we remain silent when a major power destroys Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Libya and Syria in search of regional hegemony, assassinates democratically elected leaders throughout Latin America to secure banana exports and sovereignty over the Panama Canal and, finally, breeds the worst terrorists on record for fear of offending two of its allies, Saudi Arabia and Israel?"
“What message will we send if a dictator can gas hundreds of children to death in plain sight and pay no price?”
Cohen should turn inward and ask the far more relevant question:
"What message will we send our children if we remain silent when a major power destroys Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Libya and Syria in search of regional hegemony, assassinates democratically elected leaders throughout Latin America to secure banana exports and sovereignty over the Panama Canal and, finally, breeds the worst terrorists on record for fear of offending two of its allies, Saudi Arabia and Israel?"
7
Syria is NOT Obama's worst mistake. He was, and is, right to stay out. We do not belong in the Islamic world militarily. We do not have an answer to the Islamic cult of death and martyrdom. We have no deterrent capacity. Any intervention we do will come to bad for us, and them. Unless we are willing to put a million boots on the ground in Syria, for 50-100 years, we will lose, and lose much blood and treasure. That may not even be long enough. Until the Islamic world can settle its differences, and decide to leave the early middle ages, and become part of the modern world, of their own accord, not in any way 'forced' by the west, will there be any progress there. The west can not force this upon them; we lose big in trying.
7
Roger Cohen is right again. A terrible tragedy that Obama should have expected and worse, should even now do something to rectify. Timidity in the pursuit
of foreign policy only increases the appetites of certain foreign powers. The
genocidal regime of Syria with the help of Russia will continue to maim and kill.
Shame on the U.S.
of foreign policy only increases the appetites of certain foreign powers. The
genocidal regime of Syria with the help of Russia will continue to maim and kill.
Shame on the U.S.
1
Not likely there would have been a civil war in Syria without covert U.S. support for another episode of "Arab Spring" designed to take down yet another Arab leader. Nor was it likely that Yugoslavia would have atomized into the collection of small feudal states it has become without our intervention. Times columnists write unhampered by any acknowledgement of historical reality. In civil wars, children die on both sides, both sides are guilty of "killing their own people." We are ill-served by a form of journalism much closer to propaganda than to reportage.
5
Your final sentence says so much. But, in addition to "American retreat", I would add, "world retreat". This has happened before and continues to happen, with the world standing by and doing too little or nothing at all.
1
'Today, as then, Aleppo is divided between a beleaguered eastern sector controlled by opposition groups and a larger western sector controlled by Assad’s brutal regime. '
I often wonder about how much to read into statements like these.
Is the implication in the above statement that the 'opposition groups' are harmless, peace-loving people while the other side is brutal? Is it just a matter of habit to call the regime's forces 'brutal' who are brutal for no reason other than being brutal?
I often wonder about how much to read into statements like these.
Is the implication in the above statement that the 'opposition groups' are harmless, peace-loving people while the other side is brutal? Is it just a matter of habit to call the regime's forces 'brutal' who are brutal for no reason other than being brutal?
3
I do wonder how many of these people who want to see US troops sent in would be willing to go themselves?
Or encourage their kids to go?
I wonder how many folks who want us in deep would support a Draft?
War deployments that always involve other people are easy to support.
We are a nation of war loving combat avoiders.
Or encourage their kids to go?
I wonder how many folks who want us in deep would support a Draft?
War deployments that always involve other people are easy to support.
We are a nation of war loving combat avoiders.
17
I lived in Brazil years ago, before the military turned over the running of the government to the people. At the time there was American condemnation of human rights abuses in Brazil. A Brazilian friend opened my eyes when he said "it would be great if every country was based on English common law but in the meantime we're entitled to our own evolution." I agree that Obama's refusal to engage in regime change was one a moment he can be proud of.
But fear not, Mr. Cohen. When Hillary enters the White House in a few months she will indeed intervene and we will have more troops in harms way fighting a battle that is not ours.
But fear not, Mr. Cohen. When Hillary enters the White House in a few months she will indeed intervene and we will have more troops in harms way fighting a battle that is not ours.
18
it is good that Roger Cohen wishes to solve all the world's problems. It is wishful thinking to insist that the United States do this alone. It is irresponsible to urge repeatedly, with no risk whatsoever to himself, that the United States solve these problems by sending our young men and women into danger, to bomb and kill citizens of other countries. And of course it is unconstitutional to imagine bombing and killing in this manner without a declaration of war by Congress.
5
Two points of disagreement with Mr. Cohen and all the talking heads that keep making the same simplistic points over and over, while ignoring the counter or more complex arguments. First, I am glad that Obama did not bomb Syria over his red line because we got more from Syria when they turned over their chemical and biological weapons then we would have gotten through bombing. Chlorine barrel bombs would have been sent by cannon instead of helicopter. Second, there is a real lesson for future Presidents that argue that some president or that Government has to go. We, in pursuit of that policy have been aiding that slaughter from the beginning directly and indirectly with money advisers and guns. All this has done is extend the horror with no end in sight. Not to take anything away from the Syrian dictator, but our hands are red with blood too. Personally, I am proud of Obama for using his red line to get rid of the Syrian WMD, but deeply disappointed with his abbeting of that very real disaster.
3
The wisdom of not intervening early on in Syria to protect civilians certainly can be debated. We had troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and after those debacles, the Obama Administration sought to decrease our military involvement in the region, not increase it. That position was supported by the American people.
This piece though leaves out a few crucial facts on the "red line".
President Obama could not get Congressional approval for an intervention in Syria (under the Republicans' "whatever Obama is for, we're against" policy). He would have had to go it alone (and be subject to Republican opposition).
We did not have all our allies on board. The British Parliament rejected PM Cameron's request for approval of a military strike. (France was on board though).
Finally, while the U.S. and its allies continued to ruminate on military action, a deal was struck (with Russian mediation) to remove all chemical weapons from Syria. If that deal was kept, there would be no need for military action to prevent the further use of chemical weapons in Syria. Large quantities of chemical weapons appeared to have been removed from Syria and destroyed (although it might not have been all of the chemical weapons as further recent use has been alleged).
Should we have intervened early to protect civilians? Could we have just attacked Syria immediately after it crossed the "red line" in order to maintain our credibility? Maybe, but hindsight is 20-20.
This piece though leaves out a few crucial facts on the "red line".
President Obama could not get Congressional approval for an intervention in Syria (under the Republicans' "whatever Obama is for, we're against" policy). He would have had to go it alone (and be subject to Republican opposition).
We did not have all our allies on board. The British Parliament rejected PM Cameron's request for approval of a military strike. (France was on board though).
Finally, while the U.S. and its allies continued to ruminate on military action, a deal was struck (with Russian mediation) to remove all chemical weapons from Syria. If that deal was kept, there would be no need for military action to prevent the further use of chemical weapons in Syria. Large quantities of chemical weapons appeared to have been removed from Syria and destroyed (although it might not have been all of the chemical weapons as further recent use has been alleged).
Should we have intervened early to protect civilians? Could we have just attacked Syria immediately after it crossed the "red line" in order to maintain our credibility? Maybe, but hindsight is 20-20.
3
The clearly constitution leaves war powers to Congress. The idea is that if military conflict is truly in the people's interests, their elected representatives in the House (the People's chamber) will call a vote and appropriate funds to raise an army to fight the war. This is by design, that wars should be fought only when absolutely necessary, not as a default reaction. Obama asked Congress for a vote, and they said no. Therefore, it is not in the people's interest, regardless of the opinions of professional war hawks. When the people want war in Syria, I have no doubt they will let their representatives know. It is not happening.
2
The constitution clearly assigns war powers to Congress. The idea is that if military conflict is truly in the people's interests, their elected representatives in the House (the People's chamber) will call a vote and appropriate funds to raise an army to fight the war. This is by design, that wars should be fought only when absolutely necessary, not as a default reaction. Obama asked Congress for a vote, and they said no. Therefore, it is not in the people's interest, regardless of the opinions of professional war hawks. When the people want war in Syria, I have no doubt they will let their representatives know. It is not happening.
1
As a European, the shame is on me and on us. Europe is more populous and has a larger GDP than the US. We should be able to take on the responsibility to act in Syria.
It is a testament to the complete lack of realism and understanding of history, to label Libya as a failure of the West. It is not. It did prevent the all out carnage that was to be expected from Ghadaffy in a bid to defend against a strong and justified revolt. Now it takes time to establish a new order, and the process is lengthy and dirty, like it has been after most revolutions everywhere in the world. The situation is chaotic, and there are still fighting going on, but to avoid that, would have required an occupation similar to the occupation of Germany and Japan after the WWII.
It is a testament to the complete lack of realism and understanding of history, to label Libya as a failure of the West. It is not. It did prevent the all out carnage that was to be expected from Ghadaffy in a bid to defend against a strong and justified revolt. Now it takes time to establish a new order, and the process is lengthy and dirty, like it has been after most revolutions everywhere in the world. The situation is chaotic, and there are still fighting going on, but to avoid that, would have required an occupation similar to the occupation of Germany and Japan after the WWII.
3
There is something that each of us can do. Send support to one of the aid agencies working in Syria. International Rescue Committee, Doctors Without Borders, United Nations Children’s Fund, and many more. All these groups need support now. Food, clothing, medicines, hospitals, schools, all that we can easily take for granted, many have to go without. Winter is coming; it will be very difficult for a lot of people, especially the young and old. Supporting aid agencies is a simple thing that makes a life changing difference for many families.
I understand the reluctance to support foreigners, when there are so many families in our country that could use help. But look at it this way. We are getting ready to replace the B-52 bomber with the new B-21. Each B-21 is estimated to cost 500 billion dollars. With projected cost overruns it might be 530 to 550 billion dollars. If you could spread 500 billion dollars over the refugee camps and bombed out villagers of Syria, like a thin warm carpet, imagine the difference that could make. No military involvement, no soldiers, no airmen, just aid. Would it stop the bloodshed? Maybe not, but it would certainly help the innocents caught in the bloodshed. People suffering because of stupid politicians are the greatest shame that can be brought on a society.
I understand the reluctance to support foreigners, when there are so many families in our country that could use help. But look at it this way. We are getting ready to replace the B-52 bomber with the new B-21. Each B-21 is estimated to cost 500 billion dollars. With projected cost overruns it might be 530 to 550 billion dollars. If you could spread 500 billion dollars over the refugee camps and bombed out villagers of Syria, like a thin warm carpet, imagine the difference that could make. No military involvement, no soldiers, no airmen, just aid. Would it stop the bloodshed? Maybe not, but it would certainly help the innocents caught in the bloodshed. People suffering because of stupid politicians are the greatest shame that can be brought on a society.
75
The Air Force estimates that the cost per plane will be 511 Million. With an 'M'. Please don't confuse people.
1
500 Billion dollars per plane? I seriously doubt that.
The per plane cost is misstated in this comment. The whole program of 100 bombers would cost $500 billion. Each plane would thus cost "only" $500 million. Reference: Wikipedia.
lets not forget that Obama was elected with a mandate to end military involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan and to resist engaging in similar adventures in the future. so its not surprising that he has been so resistant to involving America militarily in Syria to a greater extent. certainly in terms of just the history and current events in just the middle east his approach might have proven to be best. but unfortunately the conflict in Syria has wider implications than just the middle east. the involvement of the Russians has implications for Europe as our failure to either anticipate their actions or if we did to do anything about it has undoubtedly emboldened them. the Russians looked poised to invade Ukraine. a military confrontation between the US and the Russians over Ukraine would be very bad but so would allowing Russian to invade with out any opposition other than more sanctions. pushing Syrian forces out of Aleppo and taking out Assad may just be enough to give the Russians second thoughts about invading eastern Europe.
Yes. Aleppo is a catastrophe. A blemish on the consciousness of humanity.
A shameful testament to "Man's inhumnaity to Man'--- but it is also a political quagmire that should not be tread into without the utmost consideration.
And it's all too easy to sit thousands of miles away, calling for military intervention when you are the one who won't be going.
As it now stands, the U.S. is absolutely correct to contemplate its actions in Syria on an already over-crowded stage, where one wrong move could ostensibly do more harm than good.
In the end, Sarajevo isn not Aleppo.
And it will all come down to Bashar al-Assad to bring about a permanent cessation of hostilties -- not President Obama.
A shameful testament to "Man's inhumnaity to Man'--- but it is also a political quagmire that should not be tread into without the utmost consideration.
And it's all too easy to sit thousands of miles away, calling for military intervention when you are the one who won't be going.
As it now stands, the U.S. is absolutely correct to contemplate its actions in Syria on an already over-crowded stage, where one wrong move could ostensibly do more harm than good.
In the end, Sarajevo isn not Aleppo.
And it will all come down to Bashar al-Assad to bring about a permanent cessation of hostilties -- not President Obama.
6
And Sarajevo was the cause of the two world wars. So try whisper those ideas.
Perhaps the reason that social media dictates so much of the news and the same old uninformed opinions surface no matter what someone (in this case Roger Cohen) writes is that you censor so heavily that no discussion ever occurs. Whoopti. I write more than a half a dozen comments and you let through one reply which isn't posted along with the comment to which it replies.
You people enforce the reality you complain about. I'm paying too much money for my Times subscription to be getting Guardian-lite.
You people enforce the reality you complain about. I'm paying too much money for my Times subscription to be getting Guardian-lite.
The only winner in the Syrian disaster is Israel. As long as the Shias and Sunnis are at each others throats, Israel is relatively safe. Obama did blow it when he chickened out on his redline. Their should have been consequences. Our "invincible" F-22s could have and should have destroyed Assad's air force especially those planes used in dropping barrel bombs on civilians. Russia would not have done a thing and Putin would have hesitated in invading Crimea. Now Putin wants to test NATO's resolve in the Baltics. If Trump becomes President, Putin and Trump will ride into Riga, Latvia on top of a T-72 Russian tank.
Would the slaughter have been any less if the U.S. intervened as Obama initially suggested? Even if Congress supported an intervention (which would not have happened), it would have resulted in radical and many "moderate" Muslims rising against the Crusader war.
1
Mr. Cohen,
You fail to understand something that is very fundamental. And that is, there is a threshold that must be met for the U.S. Commander-In-Chief to send young American men and women to war. This threshold is defined as those things that pose a vital national security threat to the people of the United States. The events unfolding in Syria do not meet that threshold.
Stop indirectly advocating, through your writing, that the solution to Syria is for young American men and women from small towns all across America to get involved in a decades old religious and tribal war in the Middle East.
If you feel that passionate about it, pick a weapon and go yourself.
You fail to understand something that is very fundamental. And that is, there is a threshold that must be met for the U.S. Commander-In-Chief to send young American men and women to war. This threshold is defined as those things that pose a vital national security threat to the people of the United States. The events unfolding in Syria do not meet that threshold.
Stop indirectly advocating, through your writing, that the solution to Syria is for young American men and women from small towns all across America to get involved in a decades old religious and tribal war in the Middle East.
If you feel that passionate about it, pick a weapon and go yourself.
84
Why did the threshold get changed from the time Bosnia was bombed?
You are incorrect. The events unfolding in Syria ARE a national security threat to Americans and their assets abroad. Syria is joined by their allies, Russia and Iran to form a sizeable threat. And as they exert influence in the area, they will add others: Pakistan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc.
Those commenting here seem to be blissfully unaware of developments in the region and their impact. But hey, Trump is a presidential candidate so there's one indication of the "American intellect"....sigh
Those commenting here seem to be blissfully unaware of developments in the region and their impact. But hey, Trump is a presidential candidate so there's one indication of the "American intellect"....sigh
Please, MLechner, tell us what our "assets abroad" might be". Further, Pakistan, Turkey. Saudi Arabia are Sunni led countries. They will never join up with Syria with Assad as Syria's president.
Al Nursa is involved in as much of the carnage in Aleppo. The idea of upping the violence by outsiders is wrong. Assad is an abysmal nasty war criminal. But the war as it stands was foisted upon him. Both sides use the innocents as propaganda weapons. The chemical attack by Al Nursa back in 2012 against innocents in order to goad the US to attack Assad is one example that Assad is certainly not the only nasty inhuman operator in the area.
16
How was the war "foisted upon" Assad when he chose to attack peaceful protesters?
And please locate better, more informed research on the players in the region. There are many, aside from al Nusra.
And please locate better, more informed research on the players in the region. There are many, aside from al Nusra.
There are many rebel groups but by common agreement of the observers, Al Nusra is the most effective fighting group in the rebel coalition. If they want to survive, the rebel groups have to cooperate with the Al Nusra front. The recent breakthrough in Aleppo claimed by the rebels was largely due to the Al Nusra group. Please share any informed research (not rebel propaganda) that might contradict this.
2
Mr. Cohen, you say, "Russia, which moved into Syria last year when it realized that — come what may — Obama would sit this war out, leads the United States in a grotesque diplomatic pas de deux going nowhere."
Yes, WWIII could be just around the corner and I, for one, praise President Obama for his measured, intelligent response and the international support he and Secretary Kerry have garnered. His approach is working - give it time.
Yes, WWIII could be just around the corner and I, for one, praise President Obama for his measured, intelligent response and the international support he and Secretary Kerry have garnered. His approach is working - give it time.
50
Obama's approach is not working. Here in the Middle East, Obama and Kerry are mostly perceived as being naïve. The war in Syria drags on, with great suffering for the Syrian people, millions of refugees suffering in and destabilizing Lebanon, Turkey and Europe.
1
His approach of continuing and expanding our wars is not working. It cannot not work.
Obamas and his european pooches' approach in Libya is working beautifully un-impeeded by anyone else.
Well at least Obama can take the blame for this fiasco/tragedy as he has been in office for two terms.
5
We tend to view the world simplistically, white hats and black hats. Syria has so many subplots. It is not clear who where's which hat. Obviously, Obama screwed up big time with his red line. He talked loudly and carried a small stick. He and HRC should have not publicly talked at all about regime change. We used to be wary of foreign entanglements and are now moving that direction again. It is horrible what is happening, but, there is very little the U.S. can do. Start with a simple question, which group or groups are we supposed to help? We cannot even answer that simple question.
13
There is a war going on in South Sudan too. And yet you don't hear people urging the U.S. to get involved in that mess, even though we helped South Sudan get their independence. The difference between South Sudan and Syria is that there aren't as many reporters and photographers in South Sudan. The bottom line is the U.S. government can't let the news media dictate our foreign policy. We need to mind our own business and focus on our own problems, like Baton Rouge flooding for example.
24
This is the photo from Aleppo that makes me cry every time I look at it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/15/world/middleeast/syria.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/15/world/middleeast/syria.html
2
That photo is at least 2 1/2 years ago. Nothing has changed.
How can a city bear such misery for so long ?
How can a city bear such misery for so long ?
Some like to feel magnificent about themselves.
I watched the video of the florist and his garden center. It reminded me of a photo by Roman Vishniac taken of a Jewish child before the holocaust. She is in bed and her father had painted flowers on her wall because those were the only flowers she would ever see. Life is misery now, then, and in the future but politics remains politics.
3
Reading comments here one cannot escape the fact that a preponderance of sympathetic comments re Syrian children are by Jews.Quite commendable if the same people show as much sympathy and concern about Palestinian children's past and present ordeal by the the presumed Jewish stats Israel.
That is the test of ulterior motives and ulterior humanity concerned versus the PR consciously and unconconsciously under laying some of theses comments.
That is the test of ulterior motives and ulterior humanity concerned versus the PR consciously and unconconsciously under laying some of theses comments.
2
Since the article is about Syria, I would assume the comments would be too, from commenters whether Jewish or not. By the way, why is it that I have heard so little criticism of Assad and his massacres in Syria from Arabs and Muslims. Assad has killed more Arabs than Israel has.
3
The Israelis respond to attacks by Palestinians. Should Palestinians choose to cease attacking Israel, there would be peace.
The decision to cease attacks belongs with Palestinians.
The decision to cease attacks belongs with Palestinians.
3
Muslims kill more Muslims in a week than Israel has ever done in 75 years of conflict forced upon it in self-defense no less. Give it a rest, Omar. You're own country (lopped off by the British from the Palestinian mandate and given to your royal family to rule after the Saudis booted them out of Mecca and Medina) participated in two attempts to destroy Israel in wars of annihilation. You lost. Any other country on this planet if presented with the same would have flattened your country as punishment as the Allies did Germany and Japan. Israel made peace.
2
So, what's the point here, more US troops fighting in a civil war in the MidEast? If the Russians want to spend and die in a nearby country, let them. Things are going great for them, aren't they. Some might observe that they are bogged down in what seems to be a never-ending fight. Better them than us.
11
You think Russia is fighting against Assad? No, my friend, they are fighting with their ally, Assad (and Iran) to expand their influence within the region.
An expanded Russian influence is in the best interests of the US? Think again.
An expanded Russian influence is in the best interests of the US? Think again.
No blame for the GOP controlled House then and now, Mr. Cohen? They spent more time clucking about the administration's red line remarks and making partisan talking points to right wing talk radio than doing their job. Even now the Repubs have not given the administration any war power resolution specific to Syria.
You are right in saying the hands-off stance has precipitated the worst mass migration since 1945, and destabilized Europe end to end, including contributing to Brexit. But the fault lies not only at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., but also at its other end.
You are right in saying the hands-off stance has precipitated the worst mass migration since 1945, and destabilized Europe end to end, including contributing to Brexit. But the fault lies not only at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., but also at its other end.
7
I cannot blame Obama as blatant as Cohen about Syria.
All the presidents of US needs leverage and credit for spending particularly for foreign wars.
Let's look how that works.
When JFK led in to the Vietnam war, Korean war was a success, sides were compromised and lines were drawn. JFK and LBJ spent that credit till the end.
Nixon for obvious reasons ( No credit remained ) bombed Cambodia and Laos secretly ( pretend to be secretly)
Then a long hiatus Credit regained, GH Bush used regained credit in First Gulf war or 1st Iraq war extremely wisely and even increased that credit usage .
Clinton with hesitation but plenty of credit failed in Somalia, but succeeded Yugoslavia, credit wasn't depleted significantly.
With that in the hand
GW Bush used recklessly that credit in 2nd Iraq war, utter and complete failure wiped of all credit and left bitter regret ( like post Vietnam) in American public.
Then Obama came to regain that credit , he promised that stop fighting these wars. But in fact wars didn't stop , just opposite it is proliferated Libya, Syria. Obam very few credits in his hand, cannot be bold to run one war to another and turn and lecture the American public. Look at 2016 presidential election GOP dismay, this is how Trump win his primary.
So Obama cannot spent the non existent credit, he didn't receive from previous administration. He couldn't create either.
Credit is utterly needed for foreign wars.
All the presidents of US needs leverage and credit for spending particularly for foreign wars.
Let's look how that works.
When JFK led in to the Vietnam war, Korean war was a success, sides were compromised and lines were drawn. JFK and LBJ spent that credit till the end.
Nixon for obvious reasons ( No credit remained ) bombed Cambodia and Laos secretly ( pretend to be secretly)
Then a long hiatus Credit regained, GH Bush used regained credit in First Gulf war or 1st Iraq war extremely wisely and even increased that credit usage .
Clinton with hesitation but plenty of credit failed in Somalia, but succeeded Yugoslavia, credit wasn't depleted significantly.
With that in the hand
GW Bush used recklessly that credit in 2nd Iraq war, utter and complete failure wiped of all credit and left bitter regret ( like post Vietnam) in American public.
Then Obama came to regain that credit , he promised that stop fighting these wars. But in fact wars didn't stop , just opposite it is proliferated Libya, Syria. Obam very few credits in his hand, cannot be bold to run one war to another and turn and lecture the American public. Look at 2016 presidential election GOP dismay, this is how Trump win his primary.
So Obama cannot spent the non existent credit, he didn't receive from previous administration. He couldn't create either.
Credit is utterly needed for foreign wars.
Beyond the raw emotion evoked by seeing children being wounded and killed in the midst of a brutal war in Syria, what logic impels the call to intervene with American arms as a solution?
Beyond the satisfaction of blaming President Obama for the bloodshed and suffering – forgetting, of course, that there has been no use of chemical weapons by Assad since the “red line” -- what specifically does Roger Cohen propose that President Obama should do to make matters better, rather than worse?
If the opportunism and military intervention of Russia is the source of the problem, does Mr. Cohen advocate armed confrontation against Vladimir Putin’s forces, jet fighters, cruise missiles and bombers?
Until critics say what they want in place of the current path, their hand-wringing over this tragedy cannot be a substitute for intelligent discourse.
Beyond the satisfaction of blaming President Obama for the bloodshed and suffering – forgetting, of course, that there has been no use of chemical weapons by Assad since the “red line” -- what specifically does Roger Cohen propose that President Obama should do to make matters better, rather than worse?
If the opportunism and military intervention of Russia is the source of the problem, does Mr. Cohen advocate armed confrontation against Vladimir Putin’s forces, jet fighters, cruise missiles and bombers?
Until critics say what they want in place of the current path, their hand-wringing over this tragedy cannot be a substitute for intelligent discourse.
2
There has indeed been use of chemical weapons by Assad since Obama drew his red line and then retreated from enforcing it. A previous column by Nicholas Kristof made some good suggestions for actions (like a no-fly zone) short of war that could be taken
there are many doubts raised about that. what do we do? Ignore it and attack?
Whats this stupid idea of no-fly zone - specify an area in turkey or jordan and designate that as a no-fly zone. No need to defend such a zone - as its already one for Syrian forces.
No - not provocative enough for the chicken hawks salivating over confrontation?
Whats this stupid idea of no-fly zone - specify an area in turkey or jordan and designate that as a no-fly zone. No need to defend such a zone - as its already one for Syrian forces.
No - not provocative enough for the chicken hawks salivating over confrontation?
"No outcome in Syria could be worse than the current one."
I have come to agree with this statement, helped by this excellent article and Mr. Cohen's repeated, necessary reminders of how terrible the war in Syria is, and how much more we could have done, and still should do.
I say this knowing full well that others will decry the cost and risk to American lives that this would entail. Yet Mr. Cohen provides an excellent counter example. Do we bemoan the costs of air interdiction in Sarajevo? Did we send in ground troops? No and no.we just leave remember the lives of children safe and be moral example of a measured American response.
I have come to agree with this statement, helped by this excellent article and Mr. Cohen's repeated, necessary reminders of how terrible the war in Syria is, and how much more we could have done, and still should do.
I say this knowing full well that others will decry the cost and risk to American lives that this would entail. Yet Mr. Cohen provides an excellent counter example. Do we bemoan the costs of air interdiction in Sarajevo? Did we send in ground troops? No and no.we just leave remember the lives of children safe and be moral example of a measured American response.
What about an outcome involving just as much violence, only with thousands of dead US soldiers in the mix? Because that is what would happen. 100,000 troops in Iraq didn't stop the violence there and they weren't even a Russian client state like Syria.
1
I disagree, the Cambodia version a la Khmer Rouge would be much worse. Who could've seen that back then?
1
Some Americans are tired of being the world's police and fighting battles which are not our own. After all, our Republican Congress never forgets to tell us we are took broke to take care of our o wn citizens, but there always seems to enough billions to spend on international wars.
4
It appears that with Mr. Cohen war is the answer. What exactly is the question?He supported the invasion and war in Iraq. How is that going Mr. Cohen? Now we should oppose Syria and Russia.........
3
If "doing nothing" is acceptable (as it seems with the majority of comments) then Russian expansion is in America's best interests, correct? For those commenting, you seem grossly uninformed of the situation in the area. That Russia is supporting Assad, not fighting him. And with their ally, Iran, they can form a sizeable alliance only a stone's throw from many US assets.
The cold-heartedness of many of the "anti-war" comments is breathtaking. When did the desire for world peace marry itself to sociopathy?
If force is not the solution then what is? As Geraldine Ferraro once told John Sununu, "What's your solution? Any idiot can tell us what the problem is, to be considered better than that, you need to propose a solution."
There are many solutions that do not depend on death and destruction. One published previously by Mr. Cohen was to put bomb craters in all the air strips and thereby stop the airstrikes. One is a total arms embargo enforced by blockade. One is sanctioning and even criminalizing those who are violating international humanitarian law effectively so at least atrocities like torture, siege, and indiscriminate bombing don't happen.
Anti-war people of the past even had more solutions: Go be a chain of "human shields" to stop the bombing and shelling, people have done it before. March in the streets, stop business as usual until this atrocity is no longer business as usual.
There are a lot of things that can be done other than war if you're dead set that no force whatsoever is a necessary condition for a solution.
But one of them is not, "I don't believe in war so I wash my hands of Syria." You live in this world, too. And cold-heartedness is sociopathy when people are dying a hundred a week and 2 million people have no water.
If force is not the solution then what is? As Geraldine Ferraro once told John Sununu, "What's your solution? Any idiot can tell us what the problem is, to be considered better than that, you need to propose a solution."
There are many solutions that do not depend on death and destruction. One published previously by Mr. Cohen was to put bomb craters in all the air strips and thereby stop the airstrikes. One is a total arms embargo enforced by blockade. One is sanctioning and even criminalizing those who are violating international humanitarian law effectively so at least atrocities like torture, siege, and indiscriminate bombing don't happen.
Anti-war people of the past even had more solutions: Go be a chain of "human shields" to stop the bombing and shelling, people have done it before. March in the streets, stop business as usual until this atrocity is no longer business as usual.
There are a lot of things that can be done other than war if you're dead set that no force whatsoever is a necessary condition for a solution.
But one of them is not, "I don't believe in war so I wash my hands of Syria." You live in this world, too. And cold-heartedness is sociopathy when people are dying a hundred a week and 2 million people have no water.
3
I would like to point out that putting "bomb craters in all the air strips" is not an example of a solution that does not depend on death and destruction
In your constant call to arms of US military interventionism, you neglect to list the nearly unbroken string of horrors, blunders, blowback, terrorism, dictatorships & military-industrial corruption the USA propagated under guise of the postwar global good-cop.
The best thing the USA and its monstrous military-industrial machine can do is pull in its war-hawk talons & at least do no harm.
The USA owes the world in recompense a new path to peace.
Start with establishing the Department of Peace that Dennis Kucinich envisioned in response to the spectacular disaster still unfolding from the Iraq invasion/occupation/destabilization.
Dennis Kucinich has actually met with and interviewed Assad & has some insight into the man.
Empower a visionary like Mr. Kucinich to investigate & open paths to peace. Clearly the UN, NATO and John Kerry need reinforcement from a nonmilitary methodology that starts from the understanding that war is not the answer & that Peace is the way.
Hire a pro who believes in peace, stop with the bombs. See what Dennis Kucinich has to say.
The best thing the USA and its monstrous military-industrial machine can do is pull in its war-hawk talons & at least do no harm.
The USA owes the world in recompense a new path to peace.
Start with establishing the Department of Peace that Dennis Kucinich envisioned in response to the spectacular disaster still unfolding from the Iraq invasion/occupation/destabilization.
Dennis Kucinich has actually met with and interviewed Assad & has some insight into the man.
Empower a visionary like Mr. Kucinich to investigate & open paths to peace. Clearly the UN, NATO and John Kerry need reinforcement from a nonmilitary methodology that starts from the understanding that war is not the answer & that Peace is the way.
Hire a pro who believes in peace, stop with the bombs. See what Dennis Kucinich has to say.
7
Ah, from his sunny flat (in... South Kensington? Knightsbridge?) comes once again the voice of journalistic knight errant Cohen exhorting a nation not his own to shovel its blood and treasure into the bottomless, byzantine mire of Middle-Eastern internecine conflict. Well Rog, I AM a citizen of that country, and I for one have absolutely zero interest in seeing my nation rush back into that awful neighborhood. Heart rending images of dust covered, shell shocked little children aside, tell me Mr. Cohen, what factions would the United States be supporting in Syria? We are less than a decade removed from a disastrously imprudent intervention in Iraq, one that foundered almost immediately on its lack of a cogent political strategy and foresight. So how do you envision a US intervention playing out? What are its political aims? Because this is one giant international hornet's nest you are suggesting we kick over.
140
Vladimir Putin came for Georgia, and no third party opposed him. Then he came for the Crimea, and no one opposed him. Next was eastern Ukraine, and no one opposed him. Now it's Syria, and no third party opposes him. Who will be next to tremble under the Russian heel? Either the western coalition is no deterrent to Vladimir Putin as it was to his predecessors or this is a mouse trap waiting to be sprung. Let the coming season show us if our leaders are feckless or wily.
1
If Cohen wants to continue to see the outcome of every civil war as ultimately the responsibility of the USA, he should delve into how his (and so many others') mind-set in this regard came about. It is one thing to bemoan American action or inaction regarding, e.g., Afghanistan, but does American responsibility end anywhere? Does it end at Syria? Bosnia? Crimea? Do Europeans have any responsibility for what happens in Europe? Do the former colonial powers have any responsibility for, e.g. Ruanda? Zimbabwe? Libya? What Obama might have said, no doubt to derision in Brussels, Geneva, and hotel bars all over Europe, is that there is no "world system". There are only the USA, China, Russia, and kibutzers.
7
The American military-industrial complex annually spends as much on arms as the next eight nations combined. Including 8x Russia and 3x China.
The 0.75% of Americans who have volunteered since 9/11/01 to put on the military uniform of any American armed force have been ground to emotional, mental and physical dust by repeated deployments in foreign ethnic sectarian civil wars that have no military solution. Making threats lacks any common or street sense.
How many Cohens, Trumps, Giuliani's, Gingrich's, Pence's, Cheney's Cornyn's, DeMint's, O'Reilly's, Christie's, Cruz's, Rubio's, Hannity's, Aile's etc. have been among the military volunteers?
With the exception of Egypt, Iran and Turkey the nations of the Middle East are cynical careful colonial concoctions of the British, French and American empires. There is no Syria nor Iraq nor Israel nor Palestine nor Jordan nor West Bank nor Gaza nor Lebanon nor Libya nor Tunisia nor Algeria nor Morocco.
America's armed "allies" in Tel Aviv, Cairo and Riyadh are the major sources of America's ISIS/ISIL and al Qaeda woes. Israel is America's tiniest most financially morally worthless military ally.
Only 20% of the planets 1.6 billion Muslims are Arabs. While the nations with the most Muslims-Indonesia, Pakistan, India and Bangladesh have/had female heads of state/government.
The 0.75% of Americans who have volunteered since 9/11/01 to put on the military uniform of any American armed force have been ground to emotional, mental and physical dust by repeated deployments in foreign ethnic sectarian civil wars that have no military solution. Making threats lacks any common or street sense.
How many Cohens, Trumps, Giuliani's, Gingrich's, Pence's, Cheney's Cornyn's, DeMint's, O'Reilly's, Christie's, Cruz's, Rubio's, Hannity's, Aile's etc. have been among the military volunteers?
With the exception of Egypt, Iran and Turkey the nations of the Middle East are cynical careful colonial concoctions of the British, French and American empires. There is no Syria nor Iraq nor Israel nor Palestine nor Jordan nor West Bank nor Gaza nor Lebanon nor Libya nor Tunisia nor Algeria nor Morocco.
America's armed "allies" in Tel Aviv, Cairo and Riyadh are the major sources of America's ISIS/ISIL and al Qaeda woes. Israel is America's tiniest most financially morally worthless military ally.
Only 20% of the planets 1.6 billion Muslims are Arabs. While the nations with the most Muslims-Indonesia, Pakistan, India and Bangladesh have/had female heads of state/government.
11
"The red line should have stood" says Mr. Cohen.
That says it all.
Now the only red line that will stand is stained with the blood of those slaughtered by Mr. Assad, his friends and his foes.
Aleppo will bleed to death or be pounded into oblivion.
Nobody should be "very proud of this moment".
That says it all.
Now the only red line that will stand is stained with the blood of those slaughtered by Mr. Assad, his friends and his foes.
Aleppo will bleed to death or be pounded into oblivion.
Nobody should be "very proud of this moment".
3
Aleppo folks have been targeted several times with chemical weapons and chlorine gas by Assad, The butcher of Damascus, for the last five and a half years and now by Russia's/Assad's cowardly operations from air and ground. Iran is complicit to this genocide/mayhem by supplying ground military and tactical support and by providing air base to Russia for flying operations against Aleppo citizens. Hospitals and schools are bombed indiscriminately with chlorine gas and barrel bombs in Aleppo. This unprecedented butchery/savagery of defenseless children and women goes unabated under the watchful eyes of US/UN/'west'. US/'west' has given a green signal to Putin/Assad to 'wipe out' Syrian citizenry from the map of world. President Clinton said 'never again' after Sarajevo massacre/genocide and he regrets it to the day however Obama, Morkel, Hollande, Cameron would have a big scar on their conscience for letting Putin/Assad committing these horrendous crimes against humanity. There should be million citizens marches in London, Washington, Brussels to stop this slaughter of Syrian folks. Europe is already facing the brunt of Iraq/Syria/Libya conflicts as terrorism has spread to Nice, Paris, Frankfurt, Brussels, Istanbul, and Ankara. If this madness by Assad/Putin/Rouhani is not stopped it would be beginning of the end of global peace. If Hillary's proposal of no fly zone in Syria was accepted; it would have a different outcome altogether. Stop the Aleppo genocide folks!!!
3
Before signing on to Roger Cohen's belligerance in Syria, I would like to know if he supported the war in Iraq.
Recall that Obama had the vision to vote No.
Recall that Obama had the vision to vote No.
7
He did.
no Obama has been right about Syria, it is too late to decisively change the war there, except by pragmatic, timed moves. He basically backed up his "red line" talk, not in the way he may have specifically said, but it was all about poison gas, right? His bargaining got rid of it, and that is a good thing. Bombing them would only have been another short punch on a remarkably resilient foe.
Libya was a mistake yes, but mostly due to egged on hysteria about how America has got to win and be tough, etc. etc. The last time to have gotten Assad (and not worry about an ISIS at all) was when GWB idiotically attacked Iraq. Doing that to Syria and Assad would have been the right thing to do at that time, whether the Republicans screamed about it or not.
Libya was a mistake yes, but mostly due to egged on hysteria about how America has got to win and be tough, etc. etc. The last time to have gotten Assad (and not worry about an ISIS at all) was when GWB idiotically attacked Iraq. Doing that to Syria and Assad would have been the right thing to do at that time, whether the Republicans screamed about it or not.
2
No, a recent report shows proof that Assad has used chemical weapons on his citizens within the last year as well. I believe it's in today's NY Times.
The world has a "bad man" problem in Syria. Putin, Assad, the Iranian hardliners, and others will murder children and civilians to get their way.
So the question is not whether to intervene in Syria, but rather who will confront the bad men? And how?
And for the US, once you're in for a dime, then you're in for the whole trillion. There are no inexpensive interventions in the Middle East.
So the question is not whether to intervene in Syria, but rather who will confront the bad men? And how?
And for the US, once you're in for a dime, then you're in for the whole trillion. There are no inexpensive interventions in the Middle East.
9
Sarajevo - we watched night after night Serbian snipers picking off innocent civilians. Bill Clinton's response was so late that I felt he lacked some moral compass. Syria - Assad's father massacred thousands. Maybe a London educated son with a medical degree would behave differently. Once it was clear that he wouldn't, President Obama should have created a no fly zone so that helicopters couldn't randomly drop barrel bombs and jets couldn't spray civilians with 50 caliber bullets. Assad would have had to make some concessions that would have stopped the wholesale destruction of Syria and engulfing Europe with millions of refugees. We helped create the Shia vs Sunni conflagration over the last 13 years and needed to do something to stop the carnage.
2
With respect, the U S is not the world savior. While hate the horror of Syria these conflicts won't stop until both sides are exhausted, e. g.,Northern Ireland and today Columbia.
5
Cohen is correct and now it's way too late. Kerry (wherever he is this week) might as well resign rather than going through the motions , as Obama crosses another day off his calendar on the way to what history may very well judge a failed presidency.
1
Yes Sure, that much clear everything.
The obvious connection between Sarajevo and Aleppo is the Ottoman Empire. The occupation of the Middle East after the death of the OE might have worked if a single empire from the West (or even the East) had held sway but this was not the case. A number of nation states from the West occupied the space for a brief time (200 years?) but they have now retreated after two major disastrous wars among themselves. What comes now will be decided by those who have peopled this region for centuries. Will it be Islamic or secular, will it be dominated by the Sunni or the Shia, will they base their laws on Shariah or a new constitutional convention however far fetched that may sound, is unlikely to be dictated by the West.
The best that we can do is to provide humanitarian help. And try to support and elect Angela Merkels and not Donald Trumps towards this cause.
The best that we can do is to provide humanitarian help. And try to support and elect Angela Merkels and not Donald Trumps towards this cause.
4
Those who supported and encouraged the radical Sunni and Saudi plans to overthrow Assad bear blame for the shedding of rivers of blood, and don't even have the courage to apologize or go back and analyze their mistake. Those who don't understand Obama's pride in resisting the regime-change fanatics in American. CIA, neo-con policy-making on Syria, or explain his reasoning are intellectually dishonest and advocates for more Mid East death and destruction. Demonizingf Saddam Hussein, Quadafi, Assad, Putin--Iranians--(on and on)--its all the same to the slaves of failed, dangerous militarism. Spend money on armaments and huge weapon-making corporations, foment bloody, endless civil wars as long as your own power, influence and economic worth increase. Mr. Cohen, you can do better than this, and you know it. Obama is a great, rational President, but he's had so much deadly war-mongering to try to overcome. What courage!
36
What courage? He has not had the courage with withdraw all our troops, operatives, contractors, drones, and bombers from the Middle East.
The US might be much better off and safer with Obama's so called Syria mistake than the damage it has suffered from the George Bush's Iraq invasion folly.
85
Perhaps if the Muslim world had said 'thanks' to the US for saving the Muslims of Kosovo from genocide, then the US might be more interested in saving the Muslims of Aleppo from genocide. Instead the Muslim world denied what we had done, and continues to blame the failures of their societies upon the west. Why should we help them if they all hate us? If US troops were to arrive in Syria, everyone would stop shooting at each other and start shooting at us. This might not be the case if the Muslim world weren't educated to hate us, but they have been.
As much of a tragedy as Syria is, I wouldn't send my sons there to fight, nor would the author.
As much of a tragedy as Syria is, I wouldn't send my sons there to fight, nor would the author.
12
Painting with an awfully wide brush. In any case, the people of Kosovo remain grateful to the US (and they love Clinton for it!). But obviously the unprovoked invasion of Iraq which unleashed a veritable tsunami of bloodshed for no reason other than to satisfy President Bush's ego, cancelled out any good will on a global scale. Do you expect a thank you for that too?
"Instead the Muslim world denied what we had done, and continues to blame the failures of their societies upon the west." Try, "Instead, the Americas denied what they had done, and continued to blame the failures of their preferred puppet governments to win proxy wars upon the people stuck living in the war zone."
"Instead the Muslim world denied what we had done, and continues to blame the failures of their societies upon the west." Try, "Instead, the Americas denied what they had done, and continued to blame the failures of their preferred puppet governments to win proxy wars upon the people stuck living in the war zone."
...or my daughters. Perhaps Mr. Cohen's daughter who is considering Polish citizenship so she can continue the convenience of her border less lifestyle might interrupt her USC studies to help? Probably not. But don't go sending someone else's equally precious kids into another never ending Middle East war. Sheesh...
1
Please point out to me any Muslim leader who has publicly thanked the US for saving the Muslims of Kosovo. I'll retract my point if you can.
Also, I agree that Iraq was a massive mistake, but it should be pointed out that the Iraqi National Congress, headed by Iraqi con artist Ahmed Chalabi was instrumental in suckering us into taking out Sadam Hussein. We shouldn't have gone in, but we were invited in by one of the factions.
Also, I agree that Iraq was a massive mistake, but it should be pointed out that the Iraqi National Congress, headed by Iraqi con artist Ahmed Chalabi was instrumental in suckering us into taking out Sadam Hussein. We shouldn't have gone in, but we were invited in by one of the factions.
The demands for intervention to mitigate the tragedies of the Syrian catastrophe are understandable and truly humane. But there are many lessons, not just those of Sarajevo. What is the end game in Syria? What is the outcome most desirable in the long-term? What is the exit strategy for US involvement? How will we respond to the loss of a pilot to ground fire or an altercation with Russian aircraft? What will we do, and what will be the media response, in a presidential election year, in the case of a captured US service member? Will our allies support us? What columns will be written and pictures posted of the children killed by collateral damage of US intervention? Would we accept defeat or a stalemate or would there be a call for increasing presence of "advisors" or "quick-strike" forces on the ground? From Vietnam to Iraq we have heard and answered the demand to fight tyrants and monsters, to intervene in the most vicious of civil wars, to be the world's police force in a live-streaming age where the most appalling horrors are on the smartphone screens in our pockets. How many more American lives and limbs need be sacrificed, how many more trillions of American dollars will be spent, only to bring home brave men and women to a divided, indebted nation scarred by another failed humanitarian mission that leaves the civilian population worse off than before. Please reread Scott Anderson's piece documenting the consequences of what we did, and didn't do, in Iraq.
6
Cohen was a clear voice of reason and morality 23 years ago when Bosnia proved to the world that the end of history was a fallacy. Instead of reaping the rewards of the peace dividend, Bosnia descended into a nightmare of war.
Syria far eclipses the worst excesses of the Bosnian genocide with the number of deaths and refugees. But the world's indifference is about on par.
When the war in Bosnia started, the mantra was "We cannot do nothing." Naive, yet clear and true. But it took more than 3 years to do something. Why? It was not because of the deaths, rapes, concentration camps, and the horror of Srebrenica. It was because US President Bill Clinton faced a choice of protecting a UN retreat in the face of defeat, or going on the offensive. His ego and honor lead him to the later. It was realpolitiks 21st century style. Not to defend the interests of a nation at all costs, but to defend his personal legacy at all costs.
Regardless of what it will take for Obama to do something, the tragedy for the Syrians is that the solution is not as simple as it was in Bosnia. An ailing Russia was our only global adversary back then. The Russia of today has clawed its way back to a global power, but we also have the competing interests of Turkey, Iran, the Kurds, a host of smaller players, and ISIS, and all of this on the heels of the American crime of Iraq, our failure in Afghanistan, and the context of the Arab Awakening. Welcome to the 21st century.
Syria far eclipses the worst excesses of the Bosnian genocide with the number of deaths and refugees. But the world's indifference is about on par.
When the war in Bosnia started, the mantra was "We cannot do nothing." Naive, yet clear and true. But it took more than 3 years to do something. Why? It was not because of the deaths, rapes, concentration camps, and the horror of Srebrenica. It was because US President Bill Clinton faced a choice of protecting a UN retreat in the face of defeat, or going on the offensive. His ego and honor lead him to the later. It was realpolitiks 21st century style. Not to defend the interests of a nation at all costs, but to defend his personal legacy at all costs.
Regardless of what it will take for Obama to do something, the tragedy for the Syrians is that the solution is not as simple as it was in Bosnia. An ailing Russia was our only global adversary back then. The Russia of today has clawed its way back to a global power, but we also have the competing interests of Turkey, Iran, the Kurds, a host of smaller players, and ISIS, and all of this on the heels of the American crime of Iraq, our failure in Afghanistan, and the context of the Arab Awakening. Welcome to the 21st century.
5
Russia was not an adversary then... It was desperately seeking guidance and help and hope and principles from the west.
The West showed them.
The West showed them.
If you advocated for the Iraq war that torched the Middle East in flames, You lack any currency of respect for making a case for another futile war, in my house. Some display of contrition from you on how your acts contributed towards this carnage would be a good starter.
71
‘No outcome can be worse than the current one ‘; really! I guess Roger will prefer to see a Syria ruled by the Al Nusra front, a branch of Al Qaeda and the only one in the rebel groups capable of real fighting. By all means let's jump in the 1400 year old feud between the Shias and Sunnis. If it does not work, so what . It won’t matter much to people like Roger Cohen. He and his family will be far away from the mayhem. Roger should be honest and confess that the reason he wants Assad to be out is not because the atrocities (everybody is doing that in Syria) but because Assad is supported by Putin whom he detests.
5
Another arm-chair do-gooder.
Mr. Cohen- no one in my family is available to go fight and die in Syria.
Are you going to send someone from your family?
Or is your sacrifice going to be limited to lofty rhetoric and cashing paychecks?
Mr. Cohen- no one in my family is available to go fight and die in Syria.
Are you going to send someone from your family?
Or is your sacrifice going to be limited to lofty rhetoric and cashing paychecks?
246
Correction, soldier. You put on a uniform then you go to fight where you're ordered by your CO or the Commander in Chief. You don't get to choose between a North Carolina training camp and Syria.
Too many Americans these days seem to think that joining the US military is just a nice, easy way to earn a paycheck while you save up for a bigger SUV or a down payment on a house.
Don't want to serve? Then don't sign up.
Too many Americans these days seem to think that joining the US military is just a nice, easy way to earn a paycheck while you save up for a bigger SUV or a down payment on a house.
Don't want to serve? Then don't sign up.
Why single out only Sarajevo and Aleppo?
At least if the article is only about the former Ottoman empire, not to forget all the other massacres, from Constantinople in 1453 through the annihilation of the populatiuon of Batak in Bulgaria in 1876 to the Armenian genocide. Alas, nothing new under the sun.
At least if the article is only about the former Ottoman empire, not to forget all the other massacres, from Constantinople in 1453 through the annihilation of the populatiuon of Batak in Bulgaria in 1876 to the Armenian genocide. Alas, nothing new under the sun.
All situations are the same. I mean, the Persian Gulf War worked! So the invasion of Iran will work! There's no difference between Sarajevo and Aleppo! American Air power always works! It worked in Vietnam. It worked in Laos and Cambodia. We will "take out" Assad's air force, just like we "took out" the Taliban in 2001. Ukraine is the same as Kosovo! No difference.
8
This isn't politically correct at all, how is it possible to write an article ignoring the utter chaos the US created and participated in during the so called ,"Arab Spring", Iraq and Afghsnistan? How many years have we seen people fleeing their native country while we are subjected to guilt trips for not getting involved? Considering the US casualties, permanent damage veterans have endured while relying on charities in order to navigate through the remainder of their scarred lives, we are supposed to rally for anyone else? Do you think there might be a correlation between former Veterans, mass murders? There were no opportunities for employment in their home towns, returned to the same bleak future after drinking the kool aid they were fighting for their country. Furthermore look at the presidential candidates, the Republicans created their own monster, what the DNC did to submarine Bernie Sanders was worse the Watergate. Where are the Clinton and Gates Foundations in this country fighting poverty, under employed, unemployed, c9llege graduates burdened with debt working for $10 an hour? Very warped when the Treasury and administration comes to the defence of corporations subjected to EU taxes instead of laws preventing those tax havens. Take a trip to Goodwill, Fish or the Restore and see the people buying back to school clothes and necessities for their families maybe then you will realize why the general population is apathetic
62
So shopping at Goodwill is worse than bombing a city into oblivion laying siege to 2 million people without water, and burning civilians to death in fireballs? Now do you understand why so many people hate political correctness?
For a long time, I've been worried about the upbringing and education of today's college graduates. My worries are confirmed.
For a long time, I've been worried about the upbringing and education of today's college graduates. My worries are confirmed.
1
You missed the point entirely, this country is becoming third world, plenty of justified anger with regards to inequality, failed political system and corruption. Have you thought of the outcome if the anger evolves into rage?
I think you have forgotten that US intervention costs money - US Public is sick and tired of being the policeman of the world. We can no longer afford to be in so many wars. Mr. Cohen wants us involved in every war but are his children going? no It is somebody else's
That the problem with wars - they cost money and people young and hold have to die.Well America is sick of spending and dying for some other country. We would like that money spent here in America. Yes the picture of little boys are horrible but not so horrible that American wants to jump in with both feet.
R2P was a stupid doctrine - no one wants to go to uphold it. It was one of those nice doctrines the UN thinks up, everyone applauds and passed, but a doctrine which no one wants to spend the guns to uphold.
Maybe when we get an all robot army we won't mind sending the robots off to war, but right we have to send our sons an daughters. None on these wars are the existential threat that WWII was, we are not practicing air raid drills.
Face reality. Some wars are going to go on until the combatants get tires. We are already tired of wars- someone else can fight it.
As for Syria, yes it is our fault. We have to stop supporting "democratic groups" all over the world. It tends to lead to another SYria.
That the problem with wars - they cost money and people young and hold have to die.Well America is sick of spending and dying for some other country. We would like that money spent here in America. Yes the picture of little boys are horrible but not so horrible that American wants to jump in with both feet.
R2P was a stupid doctrine - no one wants to go to uphold it. It was one of those nice doctrines the UN thinks up, everyone applauds and passed, but a doctrine which no one wants to spend the guns to uphold.
Maybe when we get an all robot army we won't mind sending the robots off to war, but right we have to send our sons an daughters. None on these wars are the existential threat that WWII was, we are not practicing air raid drills.
Face reality. Some wars are going to go on until the combatants get tires. We are already tired of wars- someone else can fight it.
As for Syria, yes it is our fault. We have to stop supporting "democratic groups" all over the world. It tends to lead to another SYria.
6
Yes, our tender-hearted Roger Cohen, at it again. Always quick to shed someone else's blood and treasure in defense of the helpless. Somehow, that blood and treasure is invariably American. Past interventions favored by dear Roger have led to even more misery in those nations, a situation understood by our much wiser President, bless his soul. Malign Pres. Obama all you like, Roger. He's right; you're wrong.
8
Why the difference in concern and reaction of the USA and U N .
Cohen is certainly in the know why but he, as planned for him, would rather not tackle the question.
The difference between Allepo and Sarajevo is that Allepo is Arab, for one, and a major part of Syria both of which are dedicated enemies of the USA imperialism and Israel Zionism!
As Arab Allepo is expendable and Syria, a united Syria , even within Sykes Picot borders, with Allepo a major building block of Syria ,are an obstacle to the Israeli inspired and USA adopted New Midle East in which Israel is the dominant all powerful, state and force at the service of the USA, as some Americans hope, and at the service solely of its expansionist and regional domination ambitions, that would satisfy American ambitions for some time but certainly Not Indefinitely .
The Syrian situation has been allowed, actually encouraged, to continue until Syria succumbs and disintegrate the way Iraq did and as Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Algeria will in due course with the American Israeli plans for the region.
Mr Cohen knows that but would rather not come out publicly and on the record with it....particularly Not at thr N Y Times.
Cohen is certainly in the know why but he, as planned for him, would rather not tackle the question.
The difference between Allepo and Sarajevo is that Allepo is Arab, for one, and a major part of Syria both of which are dedicated enemies of the USA imperialism and Israel Zionism!
As Arab Allepo is expendable and Syria, a united Syria , even within Sykes Picot borders, with Allepo a major building block of Syria ,are an obstacle to the Israeli inspired and USA adopted New Midle East in which Israel is the dominant all powerful, state and force at the service of the USA, as some Americans hope, and at the service solely of its expansionist and regional domination ambitions, that would satisfy American ambitions for some time but certainly Not Indefinitely .
The Syrian situation has been allowed, actually encouraged, to continue until Syria succumbs and disintegrate the way Iraq did and as Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Algeria will in due course with the American Israeli plans for the region.
Mr Cohen knows that but would rather not come out publicly and on the record with it....particularly Not at thr N Y Times.
2
In Genesis chapter 6 verse 5 we read: 'The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on earth had become ,and that EVERY inclination of the thoughts of his heart was ONLY evil ALL the time"...just watch that pathetic figure of Daqneesh, helpless, bleeding, covered with dust, stunned, and you will realize that since those verses were recorded in Genesis( some 4000yrs ago?) NOTHING has changed... man is still educated, civilized... savage.
1
Sarajevo was at the gates of Europe. Aleppo is at the gates of Mecca and Tehran. Russia is dictating nothing in Syria, they are just moving the battle lines one way or another. There are over a hundred rebel groups in Syria, all violent and ideologically Islamist. No outside force can bring lasting peace until the Syrians decide to stop killing each other. It is a neighbor on neighbor civil war, and infidel armies would only serve to temporarily unite them against the US, the 'anti-Islamic crusader'.
71
Ahh, the ghosts of "liberal interventionism" (indistinguishable from neoconservative interventionism, save for the smiling face) has again been evoked.
Should the Assad regime be defeated, the vacuum he leaves will likely be filled by a motley of Islamist groups operating at cross purposes. The so-called moderates, nominally aligned with the United States, will be pitted against more radical and violent groups. Isis is down, but not out. The rebranded al-Nusra front will likely have pride of place, and perhaps a wink and nod relationship with Turkey.
Turkey has, after all, finally decided on a divorce with Isis, but needs another proxy, because Erdogan, lest we forget, is an Islamist as well and his only obsession with Syria is forestalling the creation of a Kurdish state there. Russia is not going away, and will do its utmost to ensure the survival of at least a rump Ba'athist state and the continued operation of the naval base at Tartus.
What will the US do in the ensuing civil war, more multiparty and messier than the present one? Perhaps there may be worse conditions than the present one in Syria.
On Obama's "red line" on chemical weapons use in Syria: that line was never crossed. Assad's regime almost certainly did not use sarin against the town of Ghouta in 2013.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6-GpDfsYECES3lOTUlneldpZ1Boenl1bGV5YkVn...
Mr Cohen should check his premises before issuing a call to action we've heard all too often in the past.
Should the Assad regime be defeated, the vacuum he leaves will likely be filled by a motley of Islamist groups operating at cross purposes. The so-called moderates, nominally aligned with the United States, will be pitted against more radical and violent groups. Isis is down, but not out. The rebranded al-Nusra front will likely have pride of place, and perhaps a wink and nod relationship with Turkey.
Turkey has, after all, finally decided on a divorce with Isis, but needs another proxy, because Erdogan, lest we forget, is an Islamist as well and his only obsession with Syria is forestalling the creation of a Kurdish state there. Russia is not going away, and will do its utmost to ensure the survival of at least a rump Ba'athist state and the continued operation of the naval base at Tartus.
What will the US do in the ensuing civil war, more multiparty and messier than the present one? Perhaps there may be worse conditions than the present one in Syria.
On Obama's "red line" on chemical weapons use in Syria: that line was never crossed. Assad's regime almost certainly did not use sarin against the town of Ghouta in 2013.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6-GpDfsYECES3lOTUlneldpZ1Boenl1bGV5YkVn...
Mr Cohen should check his premises before issuing a call to action we've heard all too often in the past.
114
The Houla massacre of shia kids was another of the rebel derring dos to get America to destroy Syrian government
The situation in Syria is clearly tragic, however that does not justify the unilatiral use of force by the United States. From Sarajevo to Aleppo,,, Clearly the title should be from Sarajevo to Iraq to Aleppo. There is no international force that is able or willing to act in Syria, there is no consensus, there are multiple neighboring countries from Turkey, to Saudi Arabia, to Iran that are using the situtation in Syria for their own ends. If there is one thing we should have learned from Iraq it's that the US cannot solve centuries of ethnic and religious divisions, we can no more stop a civil war between the Sunni and Shia than we can walk on water.
The situation is tragic, we should support refugees and our Kurdish allies, we should not have the hubris to think we can solve a religous civil war in the middle east.
The situation is tragic, we should support refugees and our Kurdish allies, we should not have the hubris to think we can solve a religous civil war in the middle east.
245
You speak of hubris.
While it is indeed hubris to believe that we know the solution from afar and just need to come up with the will to do it, it is also an equally extreme hubris to believe that because we don't know that, we know for sure there is nothing we can do.
Roger Cohen is right. The Responsibility to Protect (R2P) doctrine adopted in 2005 means in essence that we have to try. It has three prongs, not one: The responsibility to prevent, which is incumbent on the domestic government -- in this case the Assad regime -- to uphold the human rights of its people; the responsibility to act -- when that government fails to do so the world cannot stand by as atrocity is committed; and the responsibility to rebuild -- the world's obligation does not end when the abuse ends but when whatever damage has happened is rectified.
Someone who believes that just because a war is vicious, has a long history, and is alien to his own culture means he can proclaim that ther's nothing he can do is just as much guilty of hubris, along with lack of humanity, as someone who thinks he knows how to solve any problem by force.
While it is indeed hubris to believe that we know the solution from afar and just need to come up with the will to do it, it is also an equally extreme hubris to believe that because we don't know that, we know for sure there is nothing we can do.
Roger Cohen is right. The Responsibility to Protect (R2P) doctrine adopted in 2005 means in essence that we have to try. It has three prongs, not one: The responsibility to prevent, which is incumbent on the domestic government -- in this case the Assad regime -- to uphold the human rights of its people; the responsibility to act -- when that government fails to do so the world cannot stand by as atrocity is committed; and the responsibility to rebuild -- the world's obligation does not end when the abuse ends but when whatever damage has happened is rectified.
Someone who believes that just because a war is vicious, has a long history, and is alien to his own culture means he can proclaim that ther's nothing he can do is just as much guilty of hubris, along with lack of humanity, as someone who thinks he knows how to solve any problem by force.
OK, Ondelette..give us your plan. "As if" you have any more info and understanding of this mess than anyone else commenting here.
So.... I can think of many ways that inserting foreign & US troops and aircraft would make things worse. Yes, WORSE.
If there were a simple way to address the situation that stood any chance of making the situation better, I'm sure Obama would like to hear from you. So please share it with me first...thanks.
So.... I can think of many ways that inserting foreign & US troops and aircraft would make things worse. Yes, WORSE.
If there were a simple way to address the situation that stood any chance of making the situation better, I'm sure Obama would like to hear from you. So please share it with me first...thanks.
5
Yes support refugees staying close to their country. Not moving.
I have been to Sarajevo and I have been to Aleppo. By the time we intervened in Bosnia, all sides wanted us to. All sides do not yet want us to in Syria.
3
No more US military interventions in the Middle East. It is not our responsibility to stop other countries' civil wars. Advocates for action never have a viable exit strategy. There isn't one.
86
The point of retaining Satraps like Saudi Arabia is to make war in the name of our Empire, particularly since the Imperial debacle in Iraq. It is manifestly obvious that ISIS is a mercenary army of foreign jihadists who are financed by Saudi Arabia, and are inspired by the Takfiri ideas of Saudi Arabia's rancid Wahabi.
Yet, the compliant press actually stands behind the claim that a grassroots rebellion is in progress in Syria, against the "Barrel Bomb Butcher Assad," while the Sunni Royals of Saudi Arabia and Qatar actually own the Sunni rebellion in Syria, and the biggest ISIS contingent are Kosovars. Without the connivance of the Saudi's, there would be no ISIS, and no humanitarian crises in Aleppo.
The goal of our "Empire of Chaos" is to destroy the Sykes Picot borders currently defining the states of the MIddle East, and to rebuild more manageable states, which are under the thumb of the Empire's Satraps. Yet we have proven ad nauseum that America not only inept at nation building, but also, that we are great at destruction, which should add a caveat to neocon Beltway Wisdom.
We may be about to elect, the neocon queen of hearts, HRC to the Presidency. The Queen, and the madhatters are not about to rein in our Saudi Attack dogs any time soon, because in geostrategic chaos resides the Empire's ability to control the fossil fuel resources of the region by proxy...and without the legal technicalities raised by Sykes Picot. To this end Aleppo is expendable.
Yet, the compliant press actually stands behind the claim that a grassroots rebellion is in progress in Syria, against the "Barrel Bomb Butcher Assad," while the Sunni Royals of Saudi Arabia and Qatar actually own the Sunni rebellion in Syria, and the biggest ISIS contingent are Kosovars. Without the connivance of the Saudi's, there would be no ISIS, and no humanitarian crises in Aleppo.
The goal of our "Empire of Chaos" is to destroy the Sykes Picot borders currently defining the states of the MIddle East, and to rebuild more manageable states, which are under the thumb of the Empire's Satraps. Yet we have proven ad nauseum that America not only inept at nation building, but also, that we are great at destruction, which should add a caveat to neocon Beltway Wisdom.
We may be about to elect, the neocon queen of hearts, HRC to the Presidency. The Queen, and the madhatters are not about to rein in our Saudi Attack dogs any time soon, because in geostrategic chaos resides the Empire's ability to control the fossil fuel resources of the region by proxy...and without the legal technicalities raised by Sykes Picot. To this end Aleppo is expendable.
1
The US cannot lift the third of its citizen children out of poverty- but, apparently we have the ability to police and protect over six billion people.
When did we take a vote to be the masters of the world? When did we vote to be selfless protectors of everyone but our own people?
The American Empire provides zero benefit to the vast majority of our people.
It is time to acknowledge that we cannot save everyone and that it is not our right to even try. We are not the masters of the world and we cannot control events.
When did we take a vote to be the masters of the world? When did we vote to be selfless protectors of everyone but our own people?
The American Empire provides zero benefit to the vast majority of our people.
It is time to acknowledge that we cannot save everyone and that it is not our right to even try. We are not the masters of the world and we cannot control events.
6
Sarajevo hosed the 1984 Winter Olympic Games and the Trans Siberian Orchestra recorded "Christmas Eve/Sarajevo" about the Bosnian War.
2
I agree. There is no excuse for Obama or the other Western leaders who have allowed Assad and Russia to slaughter Syrians. They should have intervened early and could have prevented all of the worst that has happened.
Roger's cavalier call for American intervention totally ignores the obscenity of more wasted American lives in another senseless military intervention, and of course, there is no specificity from Roger as to "what happens next". Roger, does the U.S. "nation build" or occupy a portion of Syria? Barack Obama did not orchestrate the destruction of Syria or order the Barrel bombing of civilians in Aleppo, the attempt to blame him for the carnage is insidious. The reference to the "red line wobble" is just plain disingenuous.Syrian chemical weapons were the subject of the "red line" and shrewd diplomacy by Obama, got them removed without a single shot being fired. Syria is not Obama's biggest mistake. Syria is not an American core interest, despite the horrific carnage. Obama's policy in Syria has saved American lives,treasure and avoided another quagmire with all the unforeseen adversities.
11
First off, I am not an Obama basher. However, Obama's drawing of a red line in Syria, essentially daring Assad to step over it, and then doing nothing when Assad did will cost America and the world far more blood and treasure in the long run than an intervention would have in the short. This was a terrible error.
1
As a strong supporter of President Obama, cognizant of his several historically significant achievements, I can find no fault with Mr. Cohen's outrage over America's inaction in Syria. The tolerance of unspeakable war crimes has spawned an exponential increase in crime against humanity enabling a weak regional thug to be brutally reinforced by a much stronger global thug.
The florist of Aleppo is dead. The white-helmeted rescuers are dying every day. Children are slain or maimed for life. This is a global atrocity in a world that averts its eyes. The consequences are catastrophic. Leaving the door open for a Russian regime already well-known for murder and mendacity had made any possible remedy much harder to achieve.
Syria is Obama's stain, but the 24/7 anti-Obama-no-matter-what Congress must share the blame.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
The florist of Aleppo is dead. The white-helmeted rescuers are dying every day. Children are slain or maimed for life. This is a global atrocity in a world that averts its eyes. The consequences are catastrophic. Leaving the door open for a Russian regime already well-known for murder and mendacity had made any possible remedy much harder to achieve.
Syria is Obama's stain, but the 24/7 anti-Obama-no-matter-what Congress must share the blame.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
3
You send in Western troops, they expect to be greeted as liberators, instead they become the enemy. We have seen this play out many times. How can America be expected to fix Syria? It is hated by all sides. A civil war is perhaps what is needed is needed, just like Europe 1914 - 1945. At the end of the war they will hopefully be too exhausted to fight with each other and we might have peace for a couple of generations.
2
When we use terms like "Assad’s brutal regime," are we to somehow understand that he is more brutal than the proxy rebels employed by Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey to unseat him? Assad is doing what most national leaders would do if rebels were trying to dismantle his country. And from what source does the legitimacy of the rebels flow? In our own Civil War, which tore the country apart, Lincoln never conceded the right of the Southern rebels to destroy the country. I daresay there is no rebel group fighting in the country with sufficiently broad support to unite it after Assad is deposed. We will simply revert to the situation of Libya where anarchy reigns supreme. And then all the editorial writers will be wringing their hands over another failed state. Have we not done enough harm already by our disastrous invasion of Iraq?
21
Yes, Mr Cohen, I could not agree more with you. Read the article in Le Monde today (dated August 25) by Davet and Lhomme, which explains in great detail how Obama let Hollande down about Syria during the week-end starting on Friday August 30, 2013. Shame on our countries who do not try and protect these desperate children of Aleppo. Of course, the Bush administration has a culpability of historical proportions in the unfolding of this tragedy, a fact that the US people do not seem to have grasped yet. They seem to be more interested in the latest tribulations of a national buffoon. But I often wonder how your president can find sleep these days: does he not see that Syrian people are massacred by the Russian ignominy that his weak policy allowed in the first place?
5
OBAMA Was left to twist in the wind, waiting for GOP and/or international support in taking out the Syrian airfields and for refusing to establish a no-fly zone. He had the Hobbesian choice of being attacked for whatever he attempted to do. Neither the UN or the international group that were designed to respond to humanitarian crises such as Aleppo responded. Perhaps there were some diplomatic back channels on Aleppo, but we'll never know. Meanwhile, the slaughter of innocent civilians continues in Syria, with over 400,000 dead and well over 4 million fleeing for their lives. Yet for some bizarre reason, the GOP Congress has developed a collective teflon suit. Why? With our domestic horrors such as the poisoning of the water in Flint Michigan to fulfill a GOP extremist ideology of cutting government costs by poisoning a minority population, we have more than enough shame to go around. On top of that the GOP and its fatally flawed candidate are both utterly shameless. Obama wanted to keep the US out of a quagmire in the Mideast, but has been unable to prevent the nation to avoid a domestic political quagmire, brought to you by the GOP extremist ideologues. And more recently by their candidate, Trump, who does not mind being compared to Hitler, threatens to use torture more extreme than waterboarding, confuses 7/11 & 9/11, tweets that Paris is in Germany and says that women who nurse and use the bathroom are disgusting. In fact, Trump is our quagmire in chief. QUACK!å
4
As much as I loathed what George Bush and his cohorts did to Iraq, I also agree with the criticism of President Obama being utterly weak in the face of tyranny and genocide. Sending Secretary Kerry on endless and fruitless diplomatic sojourns only seemed to emphasize our sorry weakness. Yes, why didn't we bomb Assad's airfields and planes early on? And why didn't we punish in some way the crossing of the so-called red line? Safe areas for refugees were an early possibility too. And Mr. Obama could surely have rallied some European nations to act if they were made to see the coming refugee tide. Maybe all this would have failed, but at least then this mass slaughter might not weigh so heavily on our consciences.
3
Translation: As much as I loathed what George Bush and his cohorts did to Iraq, I refuse to learn from it and insist we do the exact thing again, this time just a little farther to the West and expect different results...because this time it's different...somehow.
5
While my heart goes out to the innocent civilians harmed in the fighting in Syria, the last 15 years have shown us that every time the US intervenes militarily in the Middle East, we make it worse. (See Iraq, Libya). In the case of Syria, you basically have Al Queada on one side, Hezbollah on the other, and now ISIS. The one thing they have in common is they all want to kill us. if we intervene and put one group in charge in place of a vanquished Assad, it will only lead to more unrest and chaos. (see Iraq). We have no friends in this country. Of course we are moved when we see children bombed, but President Obama had no good options in this situation. Does Mr. Cohen really want to see more Americans killed in another pointless, bloody Middle Eastern war in which we cannot possibly understand or control the feuds and animosity between sectarian groups going back centuries?
7
Most of what Cohen says is true, but there is more to it, and it has little to do with Syria and a lot to due with American politics. Obama said he'd intervene in Syria if Congress o.k.'d it. He went along with the idea that [after Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan] a president should not/could not unilaterally commit American forces to a war. So, did the hawks and super-patriots, mostly Republicans, work for a bipartisan intervention resolution? Of course not; it was an Obama initiative and thus to be blocked at all costs. And had Obama gone ahead on his own, the loss of even one American service-member or one plane would have brought howls of outrage, hearings, calls for impeachment, etc. Absurd? Remember that Congress was controlled by a party who's leader said of the Obama presidency "I hope it fails" and that their main legislative goal was to make Obama a one-term president. How many commentators, including Mr. Cohen, have noted that the disaster in the Middle East was a century in the making due to British and French actions after WWI, and that the sickness at the heart of Islam -- tribalism, medieval religious beliefs, utterly corrupt government -- could not be solved by Western intervention, and indeed the latter would smack of imperialism. After the utter failures and incompetence of the W. years, Obama wisely said 'don't do stupid stuff." Syria is a tragedy squared, but our intervention would have been the height of "stupid stuff."
367
thank you, Bobby G. Right on target.
1
You don't think that the US ability to incapacitate the Syrian air force would have prevented Assad from dropping barrel bombs and chemical weapons on his citizens? Oddly, ensuring air space has been a US priority in other conflicts, yet the US stood aside while Assad conducted his genocidal campaign.
Such actions would hardly have been "stupid stuff".
Such actions would hardly have been "stupid stuff".
1
Thank you for writing this well-considered comment. Another topic that is omitted from criticism of Obama's reluctance to commit the US military to fight in Syria is the escalation of direct confrontation with Russia. Russia has been a Syrian ally in recent history and its only East Mediterranean military sites are located in Syria. It's hardly surprising that Russia has become directly involved in the fighting to support the current regime and protect its military sites. Introducing more direct US involvement would escalate into a proxy US/Russia war. Do our representatives in Congress and Roger Cohen think that's a good idea?
If the American populace had risen up as one and demanded action in Syria, demanded enforcement of the red line, then Congress likely would've been inspired to enact some authorization. That our citizenry was unwilling to raise its collective voice is not Obama's doing. It is very clearly the consequence of the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld debacle in Iraq and the 'war-weariness' at home.
We have learned too dearly over the past 15 years that American muscle is not the solution to every problem.
We have learned too dearly over the past 15 years that American muscle is not the solution to every problem.
229
Not just "American muscle", but this is a failure at a global level: UN, NATO have been complicit as well.
1
I have scene no mention of raising taxes to pay for an intervention, the congress will not even raise taxes to repair our own infer structure.
And just why would we do that. The "red line" should never been made and we should have kept out of the internal affairs of Syria. Opposing a dictator usually results in a worse sitution rather than a better one.
As a confirmed Realist a few circumstances are reality. Obama has no interest in being involved in a war in the middle east. We no longer have what is commoningly marketed as, protecting our interest. We have all the oil we need. Russia is one of three world powers , US, China, and Russia. Each will pursue their individual interest while the other two only observe. We under Obama dropped our role as the Worlds Policemen . Our enemies know it and have been free to pursue their individual models. Our so called middle east diplomacy of favoring a dictator one day and sanctioning his being linked the next day never was well thought out.
OK, we start bombing, we send in troops, we eliminate the "radical" rebel groups help out the "moderate" rebel groups (we have a history of picking the right group) and we even somehow oust Assad ---- then what??? Our failures in Iraq and Afghanistan all began with a President who never asked the question, "then what?"
4
I seem to recall Roger Cohen writing similarly emotionally laden columns banging on about the justification for the Iraq Invasion. How did that work out?
10
A segment on the PBS newshour showed the heroic "white helmet" workers in Aleppo who pull people from the rubble of airstrikes. The next segment showed America real problem: transgender toilets.
8
Why do Europeans like Roger Cohen hold America responsible for resolving the world's troubles? Shouldn't he ask why the United States had to send U.S. soldiers to stop Europeans from killing each other in the Balkans? He is a British citizens who live in London. Why isn't the United Kingdom stepping in to stop the killing in Syria?
4
We get the problem. Now write a column on the solution.
9
I'd like to rewrite that last sentence. "Aleppo, symbol of Middle Eastern civilizational failure, symbol of millennia of tribal and religious violence, symbol of a new American prudence and protectiveness of her own citizens against internecine local squabbles in hostile cultures, should not have been left to bleed by the Islamic countries, cultures and people around it."
1
This is pathetic war mongering by Mr. Cohen.
He knows, or should know, that the chemical weapons used in Syria were used by the Rebels(terrorists) in an attempt to wag the dog (draw the USA into the conflict).
He knows, or should know, that civilian deaths are a result of Civil War;
He knows, or should know, that Russia fears the breakup of Syria and intervened to prevent a failed state in Syria as had been created by NATO in Libya
He knows, or should know, that the majority of the Syrian people support Assad.
He knows, or should know, that Assad is trying now to finish the Civil War by winning it. This will put an end to shattering video's by Britain’s Channel 4 about the florist of Aleppo, the brave man who kept the city’s last flower store open, and there will be an end to weeping.
An end to weeping should make Mr. Cohen happy, OR?
He knows, or should know, that the chemical weapons used in Syria were used by the Rebels(terrorists) in an attempt to wag the dog (draw the USA into the conflict).
He knows, or should know, that civilian deaths are a result of Civil War;
He knows, or should know, that Russia fears the breakup of Syria and intervened to prevent a failed state in Syria as had been created by NATO in Libya
He knows, or should know, that the majority of the Syrian people support Assad.
He knows, or should know, that Assad is trying now to finish the Civil War by winning it. This will put an end to shattering video's by Britain’s Channel 4 about the florist of Aleppo, the brave man who kept the city’s last flower store open, and there will be an end to weeping.
An end to weeping should make Mr. Cohen happy, OR?
4
There is nothing wrong with your TV set.
We control the video. We control the audio....
The government of Syria has the only helicopters in the region in the conflict in Aleppo. The chemical weapons being used right now are chlorine swimming pool pellets or their equivalents loaded into barrel bombs and dropped on civilian targets. That produces chlorine burns and choking. Signatures of explosions following Russian airstrikes show use of incendiary weapons. Nobody is "wagging the dog". It's a real war with real atrocities, and you are supporting the people who are causing most of the civilian casualties. Pretending that the words "civil war" are excuses for targeting and killing civilians in armed conflict is likewise out there in the Outer Limits.
We control the video. We control the audio....
The government of Syria has the only helicopters in the region in the conflict in Aleppo. The chemical weapons being used right now are chlorine swimming pool pellets or their equivalents loaded into barrel bombs and dropped on civilian targets. That produces chlorine burns and choking. Signatures of explosions following Russian airstrikes show use of incendiary weapons. Nobody is "wagging the dog". It's a real war with real atrocities, and you are supporting the people who are causing most of the civilian casualties. Pretending that the words "civil war" are excuses for targeting and killing civilians in armed conflict is likewise out there in the Outer Limits.
1
Thanks Roger from r the beautiful article. My heart too weeps for Aleppo,for the kindness of the Syrian Muslim Family that saved my Christian Armenian Grandmother and her last daughter from the Armenian Genocide in. 1915. A century has passed but my gratitude to that family and Aleppo is eternal. I would not be here to walk the earth had not that the Muslim Family in Aleppo saved my grandmother. I do not know what to do,what to say,how to respond. I am one man who feels futile in his position in America.
I pray to my Christian God in heaven to save them, to give me guidance as to what help I can give. I cry at the pictures and stories and pray this will stop. I pray for them in Syria, God save them please I beg you!
Tim
I pray to my Christian God in heaven to save them, to give me guidance as to what help I can give. I cry at the pictures and stories and pray this will stop. I pray for them in Syria, God save them please I beg you!
Tim
Had Obama entered Syria, this comment would be excoriating his actions. Cohen supported the war in Iraq which was the spark that engulfed the Middle East in flames. Obama was right to keep our forces out rather than fall into the abyss of redesigning the map making skills of the colonists.
5
Seeking authorization for the use of force from Congress, our President said:
“What message will we send if a dictator can gas hundreds of children to death in plain sight and pay no price?”
And our Congress said: ... . [Did not act.]
And our President did not act.
And the international community did not act.
Enough! Act now.
“What message will we send if a dictator can gas hundreds of children to death in plain sight and pay no price?”
And our Congress said: ... . [Did not act.]
And our President did not act.
And the international community did not act.
Enough! Act now.
1
Who recalls that just six years ago Aleppo was being talked about in Europe as the new Marrakesh, a place to buy a vacation home?
Would that have been under, I quote: 'Assad's brutal regime'? Shall we conclude that life was not all that bad in Syria under the above brutal regime? Should then President Obama simply side with Assad against that motley Islamic crew who is opposing him and help him restore the peace and stability that made Syria a place to buy a vacation home in? I need help understanding what the president is supposed to do, concretely. As for the heart-breaking picture of that little traumatised boy: it did not seem to mellow the hearts of any group combatting in Syria enough to make them stop and give peace, and negotiations, a chance. Obama does not let Syria fester; people in Syria seem unable to come up with some sort of compromise they can live with. They are responsible for what is happening, not Obama. The best Obama can do is stay out of the place. I am just wondering who is selling these people all the weaponry, who is buying their food, their clothes; in short, how does this war still support itself? Where is money each group had coming from?
Would that have been under, I quote: 'Assad's brutal regime'? Shall we conclude that life was not all that bad in Syria under the above brutal regime? Should then President Obama simply side with Assad against that motley Islamic crew who is opposing him and help him restore the peace and stability that made Syria a place to buy a vacation home in? I need help understanding what the president is supposed to do, concretely. As for the heart-breaking picture of that little traumatised boy: it did not seem to mellow the hearts of any group combatting in Syria enough to make them stop and give peace, and negotiations, a chance. Obama does not let Syria fester; people in Syria seem unable to come up with some sort of compromise they can live with. They are responsible for what is happening, not Obama. The best Obama can do is stay out of the place. I am just wondering who is selling these people all the weaponry, who is buying their food, their clothes; in short, how does this war still support itself? Where is money each group had coming from?
27
Cohen, like most interventionists left or right, would prefer to forget that the Iraq war never happened.
5
Mr. Cohen asks, "At which dinner parties in London, Paris, Berlin or Washington is it [Aleppo] discussed?"
Most Americans, however, will be thankful that the dinner parties of the powerful aren't conceiving another paradise, on the lines of Iraq, to be achieved through American bombs.
Mr. Cohen laments that "American power has lost credibility in the past two decades", but declines to note the humanitarian successes accomplished by the American military power in the preceding years. Perhaps he's forgotten the enormity of the civilian carnage of 60s, the 70s and 80s, at the hands of the American political establishment and its dinner party conversations?
Most Americans, however, will be thankful that the dinner parties of the powerful aren't conceiving another paradise, on the lines of Iraq, to be achieved through American bombs.
Mr. Cohen laments that "American power has lost credibility in the past two decades", but declines to note the humanitarian successes accomplished by the American military power in the preceding years. Perhaps he's forgotten the enormity of the civilian carnage of 60s, the 70s and 80s, at the hands of the American political establishment and its dinner party conversations?
6
hindsight is always 20/20 Roger
What is happening in Syria is tragic. I don't see how the US jumping in with both feet would help, it would just create another Iraq, a country that has been rubbleized. The problem remains Sunni against Shiite, and they have been hating each other for centuries.
3
Roger accurately points out some (there are many more) of the differences that exist between the siege of Sarajevo and the siege of Aleppo. Sarajevo was probably the most covered siege in history with news media superstars such a Peter Jennings threatening to quit if their networks did not continue the carnage. In Bosnia journalists covered every outrage live, such as Roger's poignant coverage of a young man paralyzed by a sniper, to no avail. Many Sarajevans began to despise the press recording their agony like vultures swooping in after the kill.
But like vultures, the press ultimately was key to cleaning up the mess. Aside from a few intrepid exceptions, and the heroic work of Syrian journalists, the mainstream media has abandoned Syrians much as has most of the world. The Internet has not filled the void--the recorded outrages mostly viewed by refugees and the diaspora.
Yes, it is Obama's biggest failure. But he is not alone. Ed Miliband spearheading a British retreat changing the President's mind to enforce the Red Line. And the Iraq experience conflating that debacle with any use of American force--no matter how limited. The continuing outrages in Syria bear a huge collective guilt for which this comment can only scratch the surface.
But like vultures, the press ultimately was key to cleaning up the mess. Aside from a few intrepid exceptions, and the heroic work of Syrian journalists, the mainstream media has abandoned Syrians much as has most of the world. The Internet has not filled the void--the recorded outrages mostly viewed by refugees and the diaspora.
Yes, it is Obama's biggest failure. But he is not alone. Ed Miliband spearheading a British retreat changing the President's mind to enforce the Red Line. And the Iraq experience conflating that debacle with any use of American force--no matter how limited. The continuing outrages in Syria bear a huge collective guilt for which this comment can only scratch the surface.
1
Taking aside the election campaign it is clear that USA were not able to manage the situation also in this area of the world. The fact that USA have the vision and the power to dispatch his Army in this specific situation means that their responsibility is higher than the sleeping european countries.
I strongly believe that USA will improve their capacity of mediation and making "the difference" with a better analysis of all the side effects under a long term prospective.
I strongly believe that USA will improve their capacity of mediation and making "the difference" with a better analysis of all the side effects under a long term prospective.
There is no question that the United States is weaker today than it has been in the past. The turning point came during the Vietnam War. At Christmas in 1967, ordinary Cambodians were willing to exchange dollars for their currency. There were no takers by Christmas 1968. The American invasion of Cambodia was already in the air. The US invaded Cambodia in 1970.
We were in deep trouble until somebody in our group met up with ex-Peace Corps volunteers they knew who were working in Cambodia. They bailed us out, effectively tripling our resources for the vacation.
Peace Corps volunteers are much less likely to do a world tour now. The street, any street anywhere, is much more dangerous than it was then, especially for women. Furthermore, the dollar bought more then than it has since. China and Russia are the great currency manipulators of today, a result that helps keep American interest rates way under 5%.
Our experience in Korea, Vietnam and the many small wars fought since then has shaken the American can-do ethos. The State Department may be the most maligned agency in the government. Young Americans knew in the 1960s that one should go to the British Embassy for help, the American one was too busy to help them.
Last year I was invited to a retirement party for a foreign service officer. There I met another retiree who never became competent in any foreign language while she represented the American people abroad. Sad.
We let others step in and gain the profits.
We were in deep trouble until somebody in our group met up with ex-Peace Corps volunteers they knew who were working in Cambodia. They bailed us out, effectively tripling our resources for the vacation.
Peace Corps volunteers are much less likely to do a world tour now. The street, any street anywhere, is much more dangerous than it was then, especially for women. Furthermore, the dollar bought more then than it has since. China and Russia are the great currency manipulators of today, a result that helps keep American interest rates way under 5%.
Our experience in Korea, Vietnam and the many small wars fought since then has shaken the American can-do ethos. The State Department may be the most maligned agency in the government. Young Americans knew in the 1960s that one should go to the British Embassy for help, the American one was too busy to help them.
Last year I was invited to a retirement party for a foreign service officer. There I met another retiree who never became competent in any foreign language while she represented the American people abroad. Sad.
We let others step in and gain the profits.
2
Mr. Cohen:
a couple of quick-points;
1.: Syria is a Civil War
2.: it is not now, nor has it been in this century remotely comparable to Sarajevo.
3.: there are very bad actors on all sides of the conflict, perpetuating unspeakable harm.
4.: there is not one single, representative "rebel-group" that this nation should ever commit lives to in support of their narrow agendas.
5.: what do you propose we do? this column is completely lacking in rational thought and is all about emotional and strident claims of failure.
6.: where is the U.S. Congress in your diatribe? really! most revealing.
7.: how is Syria different from South Sudan? or Nigeria? or the DRC? or?
8.: where is the UN?
9.: where is NATO?
10.: we already have enough blood-on-our-hands by our blind support of Saudi Arabia's indiscriminate bombings in Yemen with equipment that we have sold and supplied them with.
11.: the world continues to be, in far too many places, an expression of evil.
12.: at present, this particular mess is not our responsibility.
yes, absolutely, the misery IS real.
the atrocities are unacceptable.
the social media communication dispatches are appalling.
what is your view of the end-game?
how will it come-about?
who will make the choices?
what will be left?
none of this easy, sitting behind a computer terminal.
respectfully submitter for your considerations.
0630pdt 082516
310
Ditto.
1) If Syria is a civil war, then what are the Russians doing there?
2) No, it's not. In Sarajevo. The battle in Aleppo has been going on for a year longer, 2 million people are under siege there right now, compared to Sarajevo's 400,000, and that multiple parties are committing the atrocities.
3) If very bad actors are committing unspeakable harm, why wash your hands? You don't have even one idea?
4) Yes it's a conflict with many sides. They're harder to stop. Welcome to the modern world. That isn't an excuse for doing nothing.
5) Lots of things. End the airstrikes. Embargo the arms. Levy sanctions on those parties violating the law. Demand instead of ask nicely about humanitarian convoys. Start taking names on those committing atrocities and referring their cases to the ICC. Freeze assets of offenders. There are any number of things that can be done.
6) There's an election on. The U.S. Congress can be voted out if sufficient anger is expressed by sufficiently many people. Name and shame.
7) It isn't. And there are obligations there, too. Or did you think by naming as many horror shows as you could, you let us off the hook for this one?
8) Russia is a permanent member.
9) Nato is us, you opposed the us thing.
10) So if we stop selling arms to the Saudis you'll become active and do something? Really?
11) Then you have a lot of work to do.
12) Then whose is it?
You are the one sitting behind a terminal. It's amazing you don't own a mirror.
1) If Syria is a civil war, then what are the Russians doing there?
2) No, it's not. In Sarajevo. The battle in Aleppo has been going on for a year longer, 2 million people are under siege there right now, compared to Sarajevo's 400,000, and that multiple parties are committing the atrocities.
3) If very bad actors are committing unspeakable harm, why wash your hands? You don't have even one idea?
4) Yes it's a conflict with many sides. They're harder to stop. Welcome to the modern world. That isn't an excuse for doing nothing.
5) Lots of things. End the airstrikes. Embargo the arms. Levy sanctions on those parties violating the law. Demand instead of ask nicely about humanitarian convoys. Start taking names on those committing atrocities and referring their cases to the ICC. Freeze assets of offenders. There are any number of things that can be done.
6) There's an election on. The U.S. Congress can be voted out if sufficient anger is expressed by sufficiently many people. Name and shame.
7) It isn't. And there are obligations there, too. Or did you think by naming as many horror shows as you could, you let us off the hook for this one?
8) Russia is a permanent member.
9) Nato is us, you opposed the us thing.
10) So if we stop selling arms to the Saudis you'll become active and do something? Really?
11) Then you have a lot of work to do.
12) Then whose is it?
You are the one sitting behind a terminal. It's amazing you don't own a mirror.
1
To which we might add that the US in not a middle eastern nation. One might argue that our interventions in that Muslim dominated part of the world have only worsened the chaotic mess left when the Ottoman Empire collapsed.The kindest thing might be to mind our business and to allow the locals to find their own equilibrium. Our intrusion has not and is not likely to help.
2
10.: when your most-appreciated and supported suggestion comes to be, we have a lot that we can discuss.
11.: ah: who exactly gave you the authority and means to assign the job of the World's Policeman? to anyone?
12.: sadly, the idiots on the ground in Syria who are currently convinced that mass murders are the only acceptable solution to every conflict.
the mirror would more likely belong to the author of the column ...
who apparently believes, at least in this work, that assessing blame for an unacceptable condition is more important than in making concrete suggestions on how to end this mess.
thank you again for your helpful reply and suggestions.
peace.
11.: ah: who exactly gave you the authority and means to assign the job of the World's Policeman? to anyone?
12.: sadly, the idiots on the ground in Syria who are currently convinced that mass murders are the only acceptable solution to every conflict.
the mirror would more likely belong to the author of the column ...
who apparently believes, at least in this work, that assessing blame for an unacceptable condition is more important than in making concrete suggestions on how to end this mess.
thank you again for your helpful reply and suggestions.
peace.
It's never too late to act. The current U.S. led coalition can impose at the minimum a non-flying zone to protect civilian population. Until now the 2 main reasons evoked were the risks of a power vacuum if the Assad regime was to be toppled and the bigger risk of a direct military confrontation with Russia. To address the first issue, as in Bosnia back in the 90's we need to make clear that the goal of the operation is humanitarian and not regime change. It might even help/accelerate getting the different sides to the negotiation table and engineer a peaceful transition. Regarding Russia, I agree with Roger Cohen, it's about time we show Putin that the U.S. and its close allies don't tolerate to be bullied. We can obliterate the Syrian air force in matter of hours, believe me that would send a strong signal to Russia...
1
Recall that in the midst of the Bosnian crisis, there were many who treated our eventual concern and intervention with cynicism: it was said that we were willing to intervene because the at-risk populations were white and European, not black and African. Of course, the bite of that was lessened with time because we more recently pretty much ignored another white and European population under murderous pressure in Ukraine.
But American power didn’t lose its credibility over the past two decades: American power lost its credibility only during the past eight years. It’s as if we no longer possess any, and the world looks foolishly to a savior who is … Denmark. Perhaps the world needs to resolve to save itself without help, but that simply means a far more destabilized world than the one we see around us, so much MORE unstable than it was prior to 20 Jan., 2009.
But the lesson is deeper than President Obama’s tragic Syrian misfire in 2013. The lesson extends to a Europe, so involved with providing butter and eschewing guns that it can no longer play a meaningful role in global affairs; and a United States trying so desperately to emulate them. The price will be a world that burns around us. A world that, apart from millions of children dying and being pulled from rubble, also consists of markets and suppliers that in turn support millions of American middle-class jobs … disappearing beneath the rubble.
It’s all becomes one immense and endless Munich.
But American power didn’t lose its credibility over the past two decades: American power lost its credibility only during the past eight years. It’s as if we no longer possess any, and the world looks foolishly to a savior who is … Denmark. Perhaps the world needs to resolve to save itself without help, but that simply means a far more destabilized world than the one we see around us, so much MORE unstable than it was prior to 20 Jan., 2009.
But the lesson is deeper than President Obama’s tragic Syrian misfire in 2013. The lesson extends to a Europe, so involved with providing butter and eschewing guns that it can no longer play a meaningful role in global affairs; and a United States trying so desperately to emulate them. The price will be a world that burns around us. A world that, apart from millions of children dying and being pulled from rubble, also consists of markets and suppliers that in turn support millions of American middle-class jobs … disappearing beneath the rubble.
It’s all becomes one immense and endless Munich.
7
Richard, be serious.
American power lost its credibility amid the ashes of Iraq. We destroyed a country, and then found that we could not put it back together again, no matter how hard we tried. The best we could do is babysit in Iraq, and delay the inevitable family feud to come. That's all we were doing there, delaying the inevitable...
American power works best when deployed in defense of already existing nations with few, if any, internal conflicts. We're great at liberating a France that knows what it is, and what it wants to be, despite internal divisions. We're not so great when intervening in the middle of civil wars, like Vietnam.
But speaking of appeasement and Munich, which Presidential candidate is Putin's modern day quisling? The candidate that we call Drumpf...
American power lost its credibility amid the ashes of Iraq. We destroyed a country, and then found that we could not put it back together again, no matter how hard we tried. The best we could do is babysit in Iraq, and delay the inevitable family feud to come. That's all we were doing there, delaying the inevitable...
American power works best when deployed in defense of already existing nations with few, if any, internal conflicts. We're great at liberating a France that knows what it is, and what it wants to be, despite internal divisions. We're not so great when intervening in the middle of civil wars, like Vietnam.
But speaking of appeasement and Munich, which Presidential candidate is Putin's modern day quisling? The candidate that we call Drumpf...
33
So America lost its credibility in the past eight years but the illegal Iraq invasion (that tremendously helped cause this nightmare) was ... um, okay? It enhanced our credibility? Right.
33
While much of what you say is true, linking our decline to the election of President Obama (agreeing that his Syria policy has been a debacle, but also recognizing that he has made a number of excellent foreign policy decisions) and not the election of GWB and the Iraq war (history's most spectacular foreign policy debacle) suggests serious partisan blinders...
4
Let's cut through all the intellectual analysis and get right to the heart of the matter. I grew up in a rough area. I understand the street.
What good is strength is you don't use it? In a rough area, the strong rule. If a block has a good guy big Jimmy, you don't mess with big Jimmy. You don't mess with big Jimmy's friends. You don't mess with anyone on his block. Big Jimmy looks after the weaker kids. They look up to him. He protects them.
That's the way the street works. You hurt me, I'll hurt you back. You hurt my friends, I'll hurt you back more.
Aleppo doesn't have a big Jimmy. We used to be the world's big Jimmy. Great Britain was a big Jimmy. NATO was a big Jimmy. Now big Jimmy stays home. He got beat up in Iraq and Afghanistan really badly and can't fight anymore. He never should have gone to those places and got hurt.
The bad guys know that so they do what they want. The kill with impunity. Syria, South Yemen, South Sudan. These are horrible genocides, crimes against humanity.
Well guess what? If the world wants to maintain this thing we call humanity, we need a few big Jimmy's running around. The bad guys will never disappear. Aleppo has proven that 400,000 times over.
What good is strength is you don't use it? In a rough area, the strong rule. If a block has a good guy big Jimmy, you don't mess with big Jimmy. You don't mess with big Jimmy's friends. You don't mess with anyone on his block. Big Jimmy looks after the weaker kids. They look up to him. He protects them.
That's the way the street works. You hurt me, I'll hurt you back. You hurt my friends, I'll hurt you back more.
Aleppo doesn't have a big Jimmy. We used to be the world's big Jimmy. Great Britain was a big Jimmy. NATO was a big Jimmy. Now big Jimmy stays home. He got beat up in Iraq and Afghanistan really badly and can't fight anymore. He never should have gone to those places and got hurt.
The bad guys know that so they do what they want. The kill with impunity. Syria, South Yemen, South Sudan. These are horrible genocides, crimes against humanity.
Well guess what? If the world wants to maintain this thing we call humanity, we need a few big Jimmy's running around. The bad guys will never disappear. Aleppo has proven that 400,000 times over.
28
Not our job.
This country was founded on the idea that nations are free- and should decide their own destiny.
Let us provide the needy with humanitarian aide. No more than that.
Violence begets violence. Our bombs do not only, and magically, kill the bad guys.
And foreign intervention in any country typically fails.
You are right- the bad guys never disappear.
This country was founded on the idea that nations are free- and should decide their own destiny.
Let us provide the needy with humanitarian aide. No more than that.
Violence begets violence. Our bombs do not only, and magically, kill the bad guys.
And foreign intervention in any country typically fails.
You are right- the bad guys never disappear.
3
Dear Bruce: Your facile reductionist analogy leaves me speechless. Big Jimmy? Are you kidding? What part of the disastrous US intervention in Iraq, with its utter lack of political strategy and forethought, did you miss? Not sure where to begin, but I'll try: who exactly are Big (US) Jimmy's "friends" in Syria?
3
Roger, let me stipulate upfront that the carnage of Syria represents a tragedy of immense proportions.
But do explain to the uninformed how the world would be better were Assad's regime to be removed by NATO - and then supplanted by some coalition of opposition groups that cannot agree on much of anything, much less the superiority of the democratic form of government?
The tragedy in Syria was centuries in the making. I'm positive that something that some American did made it worse. But we were not the authors of the ideologies that drive this conflict - and events have demonstrated that we cannot meaningfully impact those ideologies even if we cared to.
The idea of a Pax Americana that so many neocons bought into at the end of the Cold War was an illusion from the start. There has never truly been peace in the world, there has always one nasty war or another being fought in some obscure corner of the earth.
None of this can or will change until a majority of human beings take it upon themselves to fight the good war, the war within, that war that only they can fight and only they can win.
Dona nobis pacem.
But do explain to the uninformed how the world would be better were Assad's regime to be removed by NATO - and then supplanted by some coalition of opposition groups that cannot agree on much of anything, much less the superiority of the democratic form of government?
The tragedy in Syria was centuries in the making. I'm positive that something that some American did made it worse. But we were not the authors of the ideologies that drive this conflict - and events have demonstrated that we cannot meaningfully impact those ideologies even if we cared to.
The idea of a Pax Americana that so many neocons bought into at the end of the Cold War was an illusion from the start. There has never truly been peace in the world, there has always one nasty war or another being fought in some obscure corner of the earth.
None of this can or will change until a majority of human beings take it upon themselves to fight the good war, the war within, that war that only they can fight and only they can win.
Dona nobis pacem.
165
If the US were an honest broker we would support the legitimate government of Bashar Assad, which is secular and cosmopolitan, against the ISIS insurgency, which is financed by Saudi Arabia, and Qatar (our allies if you can believe it)...led by Saddam Hussein's unemployed Officer Corps...and is composed of men who are jihadists foreign to Syria.
We might as well shut down the Cold War nonsense, which is both stupid and dangerous, and get together with Russia to finally crush ISIS once and for all.
Of course this won't happen because the United States armed Saudi Arabia for the express purpose of shattering Shiite opponents who are in alliance or potential alliance with Iran. Yemen would be just such a case.
ISIS is just another tool of the Imperium, and when the Caliphate has done the work of Empire it will die by the hand of the Empire...or such may be the belief held within the Beltway.
It should give pause that Bush couldn't imagine that Shiite Baghdad would align with Shiite Iran, when he wrecked Iraq, and threw out the Sunni from power, and it is certainly within the realm of possibility that either of our primary Straps...Israel or Saudi Arabia...could turn around and bite the Imperial hand, which fed them! Saddam of course did it, and PM Erdogan of Turkey is currently in the process of doing it.
Here we have the greatest Empire with the longest reach in history, and it is managed by junior Machiavellians like Cohen. Once you get it, it's hard not to laugh.
We might as well shut down the Cold War nonsense, which is both stupid and dangerous, and get together with Russia to finally crush ISIS once and for all.
Of course this won't happen because the United States armed Saudi Arabia for the express purpose of shattering Shiite opponents who are in alliance or potential alliance with Iran. Yemen would be just such a case.
ISIS is just another tool of the Imperium, and when the Caliphate has done the work of Empire it will die by the hand of the Empire...or such may be the belief held within the Beltway.
It should give pause that Bush couldn't imagine that Shiite Baghdad would align with Shiite Iran, when he wrecked Iraq, and threw out the Sunni from power, and it is certainly within the realm of possibility that either of our primary Straps...Israel or Saudi Arabia...could turn around and bite the Imperial hand, which fed them! Saddam of course did it, and PM Erdogan of Turkey is currently in the process of doing it.
Here we have the greatest Empire with the longest reach in history, and it is managed by junior Machiavellians like Cohen. Once you get it, it's hard not to laugh.
5
That is a lazy and intellectually flaccid argument. It's like saying "what's the point of washing my clothes, they'll get dirty again anyway."
The fact is that not intervening in Syria has produced the worst possible outcome imaginable. It has not only destabilized the region and caused the rise of ISIS, but also wrecked havock in Europe and even United States. I'm sure the chaos with ISIS has contributed in no small part to the popularity of Trump.
It is true that if the US had forced a peace it would have been a difficult and uneasy one. Bosnia still has ethnic strife and conflict. But it would have been a "peace" nonetheless. It would have prevented the carnage and utter destruction that has befallen Syria.
You are completely wrong that "Pax Americana" was an illusion. American strength and world policing has brought great peace and prosperity in the world. We are far safer today than at any other time in world history.
Arguments like yours come from the fact that you are affluent and you don't have to care. This barely affects you. That's fine, you don't have to care. There is no requirement to be a good Samaritan. But at least have the guts to admit that, instead of a throwing bogus argument about "oh religions have been fighting for thousand of years! what's the point of it all! Make love not war!"
The fact is that not intervening in Syria has produced the worst possible outcome imaginable. It has not only destabilized the region and caused the rise of ISIS, but also wrecked havock in Europe and even United States. I'm sure the chaos with ISIS has contributed in no small part to the popularity of Trump.
It is true that if the US had forced a peace it would have been a difficult and uneasy one. Bosnia still has ethnic strife and conflict. But it would have been a "peace" nonetheless. It would have prevented the carnage and utter destruction that has befallen Syria.
You are completely wrong that "Pax Americana" was an illusion. American strength and world policing has brought great peace and prosperity in the world. We are far safer today than at any other time in world history.
Arguments like yours come from the fact that you are affluent and you don't have to care. This barely affects you. That's fine, you don't have to care. There is no requirement to be a good Samaritan. But at least have the guts to admit that, instead of a throwing bogus argument about "oh religions have been fighting for thousand of years! what's the point of it all! Make love not war!"
1
The Pax Americana, which you so glibly ignore, does exist. How many major cross border wars have been fought in the last sixty years? By major, of course, I'm referring to large scale conflicts (Grenada and Panama don't count) and more importantly should have as a goal the capture of territory. In fact, since World War 2, the only land taken by conquest was done so by communists (left wing not right wing.) In addition, the previous two Paxs (Brittania and Romana) did not ensure total peace for everyone everywhere all the time. What they did was to curtail major struggles and allow peace to expand.
During the last fifty years there has been a tenfold increase in the number of people around the world leaving poverty. There have been fewer interstate wars than ever before. And the world is now in such a place that YOU get to argue that hey, we shouldn't stop a guy from indiscriminately bombing children because something bad might happen later. This is called the cowardice of the infirm. You certainly live up to that label
During the last fifty years there has been a tenfold increase in the number of people around the world leaving poverty. There have been fewer interstate wars than ever before. And the world is now in such a place that YOU get to argue that hey, we shouldn't stop a guy from indiscriminately bombing children because something bad might happen later. This is called the cowardice of the infirm. You certainly live up to that label
1
Much as I am against US military adventurism that ends up making things worse I have to agree with Cohen that it is simply unacceptable for the US to do nothing in the case of Aleppo. The Assad regime and Russia are deliberately bombing hospitals, killing civilians and preventing food and medicine to be supplied to Aleppo. There is much that can be done short of sending the US army into Syria. Most Americans complain why is it up to the US to do something, where is everybody else? The simple fact is that the US is the only country in the world with the capacity to make a difference and doing it without committing a large military force. I remember watching with dismay the siege of Sarajevo, when Serbian artillery and snipers were shooting at the population with impunity. It would not have taken that much for the rest of Europe and the US to demand that it stop immediately and if the warning was ignored to proceed to bomb all Serbian artillery positions.
Many deaths could have been prevented.
Unfortunately, when faced with brutal violence the only possible response is to show that there is a price to pay and that price has to be steep. Lacking that nothing will deter those who lack any human conscience.
Many deaths could have been prevented.
Unfortunately, when faced with brutal violence the only possible response is to show that there is a price to pay and that price has to be steep. Lacking that nothing will deter those who lack any human conscience.
27
Ah; Sarajevo also the flashpoint for WW I and WW2 eventuating in the Holocaust. A Syrian confrontation with the Russians is not out of the question. Where would that lead us; WW3? The war to end all wars possibly?
"The simple fact is that the US is the only country in the world with the capacity to make a difference"
Not true, unless you mean to bomb anything and everything in their way, but even that isn't true either (see the Russian air campaign, or the Chinese military base in Djibouti, just about to be completed).
As for you 'dismay' watching the tragedy of Sarajevo, think about this: why didn't the US - instead of bombing it to smithereens - support keeping Yugoslavia together?
Had they done so, there wouldn't have been a civil war and no Sarajevo either.
Not true, unless you mean to bomb anything and everything in their way, but even that isn't true either (see the Russian air campaign, or the Chinese military base in Djibouti, just about to be completed).
As for you 'dismay' watching the tragedy of Sarajevo, think about this: why didn't the US - instead of bombing it to smithereens - support keeping Yugoslavia together?
Had they done so, there wouldn't have been a civil war and no Sarajevo either.
9
Where all those NATO countries - the ones who don't pay their dues? Time they went to war and let us stay home, They have been living off American for too long, they need to jump into these wars no instead of calling for the US.
5