Journalists for the last 30 years have been seeking ratings over ethical reporting and now are as respected as Used Car Salesmen of the 1950's and 60's. All we seem to see and hear and read are regurgitated press releases from government spokespersons and corporate hacks. Our news is full of reports of what he thought about what she said and what she said about what he said with no fact checking or verification that either is talking about anything real.
We are now in a post-factual world and Colbert's Truthiness is what matters.
We are now in a post-factual world and Colbert's Truthiness is what matters.
3
Sociological studies done in the first half of the 20th century on lynching culture in the south overturned many of the preconceived beliefs on who was more responsible. Elite white members of communities who saw the extreme levels of violence were quick to condemn it as the product of the lowest classes of citizens. The studies showed differently.
One labeled those most likely to drive the violence and hate resulting in lynchings "strainers". These were people who aspired to a solid middle class and respectability, and men held jobs as clerks and shop keepers. They perceived, driven by their ministers, politicians, and economic leaders, that African Americans threatened their ambitions. Black owned stores would cut into their profits, and black economic security made their own struggles seem unfair. They wanted to be upwardly mobile, but believed the descendants of slaves were standing in their way.
How is that different now, when crowds of people who have seen their jobs disappear and prosperity slip away, chant "build that wall". They buttress the ambitions of a pedagogue who promises them that which they believe to be theirs by right, even as the landscape is changing around them.
Regardless who wins the white house, economic parity across racial lines should be a priority or the anger will only be fueled. We should offer a hand to all those who aspire, African American, Hispanic, or poor whites.
One labeled those most likely to drive the violence and hate resulting in lynchings "strainers". These were people who aspired to a solid middle class and respectability, and men held jobs as clerks and shop keepers. They perceived, driven by their ministers, politicians, and economic leaders, that African Americans threatened their ambitions. Black owned stores would cut into their profits, and black economic security made their own struggles seem unfair. They wanted to be upwardly mobile, but believed the descendants of slaves were standing in their way.
How is that different now, when crowds of people who have seen their jobs disappear and prosperity slip away, chant "build that wall". They buttress the ambitions of a pedagogue who promises them that which they believe to be theirs by right, even as the landscape is changing around them.
Regardless who wins the white house, economic parity across racial lines should be a priority or the anger will only be fueled. We should offer a hand to all those who aspire, African American, Hispanic, or poor whites.
7
any one who wants to talk about the golden age in America ( the 50's) probably wasn't there. My father was a Army officer and my uncle was a Navy officer. Where ever we lived we had a vegetable garden and not because my parents loved to garden though they did enjoy it. Military officers did not get a pay raise for 14 years(yes you can check it out). And selling your soul to become a lobbyist was unthinkable for most. I remember strikes for better conditions and pay and that some violence did occur. Like most of the kids I knew I wore handmedowns (some from my older brother) and when we got to JR High we shopped at thrift shops. Money was always tight but we were taught you had to make choices. We used the library and received books, socks underwear and sometimes records as gifts. All very basic. And we cut lawns, babysat, washed dishes and cleaned up after people had parties. But not in the South since everyone had "colored" help. It was not the fairy tale people claim but you learned to take care of yourself.
8
Exploiting people's weakness is what con men do best
6
Isn't it downwardly white males that are the Trump supporters? The white men who have Union provided pensions and their male children who don't? Funny that these young men would support Trump who wants to eliminate the minimum wage and unions. Funny that the old white men, living off the wealth provided them by unions and pensions would support Trump, who is against all of these things. Funny and sad.
14
Not a Trump supporter, but perhaps his popularity is tied to anger with the last 8 years of endless illegal immigration (and associated taxes that go to care, educate, and house illegal immigrants), the absolute attack from the white house on anyone that doesn't agree with king Obama and his ruling court of democrats (Pelosi/Reid), frustration with Congress (both Reps and Dems deciding who loses and wins in a never ending dribble of nonsense legislation filled with pork). Maybe, just maybe, they are trying to be heard. Obviously, they will not be heard by the progressive liberal movement nor the NYTimes (one in the same).
Could it be time for some moderation, some respect for another's opinion, and some new laws that actually apply to Congress and the white house - like 'insider trading?' Today, neither can even be investigated for insider trading. Neither will have to comply with the ACA (Obamacare). And neither has any interest in making government more efficient and accountable.
Also, there are a few people that think Hillary is a lying, immoral, self-serving woman that doesn't deserve the millions she's taken from enemy states. And guess what? Many are actually educated, productive, and caring citizens of the US vs. the 'poor, uneducated white men' that the NYTimes has decided fit their agenda and story!
Maybe?
Could it be time for some moderation, some respect for another's opinion, and some new laws that actually apply to Congress and the white house - like 'insider trading?' Today, neither can even be investigated for insider trading. Neither will have to comply with the ACA (Obamacare). And neither has any interest in making government more efficient and accountable.
Also, there are a few people that think Hillary is a lying, immoral, self-serving woman that doesn't deserve the millions she's taken from enemy states. And guess what? Many are actually educated, productive, and caring citizens of the US vs. the 'poor, uneducated white men' that the NYTimes has decided fit their agenda and story!
Maybe?
11
Is your post an example of this "moderation" and "respect for another's opinion" you talk about?
"Hillary is a lying, immoral, self-serving woman", "king Obama"?
Maybe work on your own stuff for a while.
"Hillary is a lying, immoral, self-serving woman", "king Obama"?
Maybe work on your own stuff for a while.
22
While stipulating that nothing you said is true, you are absolutely right that Trump's popularity is tied to all those things you mentioned. All those things that have nothing in common with reality,
12
The statistics cited in this article aren't all that compelling. I think there is an easier, more straightforward answer: the right-wing disinformation apparatus (e.g., Limbaugh, Fox News) has been brainwashing these people for decades; Trump has merely tapped into the rabid anti-liberalism that has been generated.
First, Trump supporters are rabidly anti-liberal. Second, they're disappointed that Republicans have been largely ineffective at saving them from those darn liberals. Third, the brainwashing includes the idea that the government is their enemy, thus the desire for an outsider. And fourth, these people want someone "strong" (authoritarian) who can overpower the system that they think has failed them.
Never mind that most of the distressed areas in the country have long been run by conservatives. Never mind that the economy does far better under liberal presidents. Liberals make great scapegoats for the downwardly mobile and others who have been totally brainwashed by right-wing propaganda.
First, Trump supporters are rabidly anti-liberal. Second, they're disappointed that Republicans have been largely ineffective at saving them from those darn liberals. Third, the brainwashing includes the idea that the government is their enemy, thus the desire for an outsider. And fourth, these people want someone "strong" (authoritarian) who can overpower the system that they think has failed them.
Never mind that most of the distressed areas in the country have long been run by conservatives. Never mind that the economy does far better under liberal presidents. Liberals make great scapegoats for the downwardly mobile and others who have been totally brainwashed by right-wing propaganda.
21
They think supporting the rich guy will make them rich. It's a bit sad to see the folks in ill-fitting suits stand behind him at the rallies, perhaps hopeful he'll maybe slot them for a place somewhere in the Trump empire.
The reality is that (we) white men have had it pretty good, supported by structural market conditions that excluded women and men of color from positions of responsibility in the corporate world.
What the downwardly mobile rue is that their beloved "free market" tips against them; the closed market that Gramps enjoyed is gone, we hope.
The reality is that (we) white men have had it pretty good, supported by structural market conditions that excluded women and men of color from positions of responsibility in the corporate world.
What the downwardly mobile rue is that their beloved "free market" tips against them; the closed market that Gramps enjoyed is gone, we hope.
10
I've noticed increasingly how this milieu, one that is too often associated with liberals, not working class "rednecks" (the traditional constituency of the Democratic Party), as was seen previously with neo-cons, is heavily middle to upper middle class, that is gentrified; consistent with Trotsky's observation of the "petit bourgoisie", particularly that portion stressed by economic crisis, being the main social base of fascism.
Or as one wag put it, angry white guys in golf carts. There they go, guys with handles like "Publius", "John Adams", "Cicero" and "Scholar & Thinker" stopping to take their shots while resentfully muttering Neo-Platonic gibberish they barely understand (and which is barely understandable) about "First Principles" genuflecting to their idols like Alan Bloom and Augusto Pinochet (and increasingly Joseph McCarthy) convinced that their self perceived neo-classical erudition shows they really have the "class" to enter the ranks of the enlightened haute bourgoisie whom Plato and Aristotle (they imagine) ordained it was proper to rule society as "Founders"; and maybe if there are enough tax cuts and cuts to social programs coupled with demonization of "liberals" and "the left" they'll be able to afford to move to Park Avenue and the Upper East Side and be accepted by the 'better" class of people-or at least be seen with them at the opera. What a bunch of fatuous, puffed-up clowns!
Or as one wag put it, angry white guys in golf carts. There they go, guys with handles like "Publius", "John Adams", "Cicero" and "Scholar & Thinker" stopping to take their shots while resentfully muttering Neo-Platonic gibberish they barely understand (and which is barely understandable) about "First Principles" genuflecting to their idols like Alan Bloom and Augusto Pinochet (and increasingly Joseph McCarthy) convinced that their self perceived neo-classical erudition shows they really have the "class" to enter the ranks of the enlightened haute bourgoisie whom Plato and Aristotle (they imagine) ordained it was proper to rule society as "Founders"; and maybe if there are enough tax cuts and cuts to social programs coupled with demonization of "liberals" and "the left" they'll be able to afford to move to Park Avenue and the Upper East Side and be accepted by the 'better" class of people-or at least be seen with them at the opera. What a bunch of fatuous, puffed-up clowns!
6
AS DOWNWARDLY MOBILE AS POE'S RAVEN
People who are downwardly mobile
downwardly are uppity ,
and therefore not my cuppa tea,
supporting Donald in order to show bile.
Comparisons are always odious, not clever,
especially when a voter
sinks low, since not a floater,
as raving mad as the raven that said “Never!”
[email protected]
People who are downwardly mobile
downwardly are uppity ,
and therefore not my cuppa tea,
supporting Donald in order to show bile.
Comparisons are always odious, not clever,
especially when a voter
sinks low, since not a floater,
as raving mad as the raven that said “Never!”
[email protected]
3
If Bush et al hadn't crashed the real estate market and economy by permitting fraud in the financial sector ...we wouldn't have so many citizens struggling to achieve a viable economic status
In the first place.
Pulling the rug out from the most democratic of wealth generators - real estate - has kept the prospects of the working middle class down across yoooge parts of our country...
In the first place.
Pulling the rug out from the most democratic of wealth generators - real estate - has kept the prospects of the working middle class down across yoooge parts of our country...
3
Trump knows about "the downwardly mobile" about as much as his son knows when he bragged about his dad being out at job sites as the construction guys "pour drywall". He is a germaphobe.
Donald has learned to read a crowd, sell them his book and talk people into worthless investments and universities. I would not call that "caring" by any stretch. The guy is grooming a roomful of potential marks.
Donald has learned to read a crowd, sell them his book and talk people into worthless investments and universities. I would not call that "caring" by any stretch. The guy is grooming a roomful of potential marks.
12
People, Donald Trump will NEVER invite you to Mar-A-Lago or any of his homes.
He won't even visit a slum or your neighborhood or an inner city. He
fears 'cooties' when he shakes your hand. He just
wants your vote so he can do business and be duped by the Russians.
He will finish where George Bush left off - ruining this great country.
He won't even visit a slum or your neighborhood or an inner city. He
fears 'cooties' when he shakes your hand. He just
wants your vote so he can do business and be duped by the Russians.
He will finish where George Bush left off - ruining this great country.
15
I'm checking out places to emigrate, and at this point I will likely emigrate no matter who wins. I recall meeting an elderly German, a socialist in his youth, who left Germany in the early 30's; went to the Netherlands and then, when the Germans were literally at his door, managed to get to England and then to the U. S. after the war. He said, "So many of my friends died because they stayed behind, because they hoped things would get better. When they realized they were not going to get better, it was too late." Not making THAT mistake. The dark talk about the election being "rigged", voter fraud, blah, blah blah is enough to tell me that on November 9, the matter will be far from settled and things could get VERY ugly indeed. I've frankly lost all hope at this point.
1
Evidently, all cable news is on the down slope. After every commercial break, the first thing one hears is Donald Trump's voice -- gravely for emphasis -- making some outrageous charge.
Donald lives for media coverage. I'm sure he posed for those naked statues to prevent Hillary from getting another headline.
Donald lives for media coverage. I'm sure he posed for those naked statues to prevent Hillary from getting another headline.
1
No longer are the right wing media followers content to just watch and listen to conservative programming. They, together with many cockeyed conspiracy believers are now a formidable voting block - thanks to Trump "telling it like it is" and the "ripe for picking" Republican party allowing itself to be hijacked.
But maybe something good can come out of this dark election - maybe the Democrats can pause their justifiable Trump bashing and remember that the "white males without college degrees" do have a right to vote and need to be taken seriously.
So how do Democrats earn their trust? Yes - much of that mistrust is contrived nonsense from profit driven right wing media voices - but not all of it. For a period of time recently it felt like the NYT's printed (digital) front page stories on transgender issues on a daily basis. An important issue and I didn't mind - but many in the country consider that "in their face" approach to the news and proof that the non-conservative media has an agenda that leaves them out.
Serious readers of the Times like myself trust and respect the paper and can clearly see the difference between it's objective reporting and "fair and balanced" pulp from the right. But bringing the country together will require some give and take. It's a tough one - just taking Trump seriously enough to even mention him must seem absurd to the Times- but he is the candidate from one of the two major parties and arguably a dangerous alternative to Clinton. So...
But maybe something good can come out of this dark election - maybe the Democrats can pause their justifiable Trump bashing and remember that the "white males without college degrees" do have a right to vote and need to be taken seriously.
So how do Democrats earn their trust? Yes - much of that mistrust is contrived nonsense from profit driven right wing media voices - but not all of it. For a period of time recently it felt like the NYT's printed (digital) front page stories on transgender issues on a daily basis. An important issue and I didn't mind - but many in the country consider that "in their face" approach to the news and proof that the non-conservative media has an agenda that leaves them out.
Serious readers of the Times like myself trust and respect the paper and can clearly see the difference between it's objective reporting and "fair and balanced" pulp from the right. But bringing the country together will require some give and take. It's a tough one - just taking Trump seriously enough to even mention him must seem absurd to the Times- but he is the candidate from one of the two major parties and arguably a dangerous alternative to Clinton. So...
2
"Downwardly Mobile" is a euphemism. I think you are referring to losers.
3
The phenomenon described here is a beautiful example of the notion of comparison levels that has been around in psychology for some decades. It's not how I'm doing against objective indices, but against my comparison level, a cognitive construct. Experiencing an increase in rewards and status is nice, but falling to the same objective level of rewards and status is terrible. People perceiving a loss in status make up the Trump base, and it is hard to think of anything you could say or promise them that would change their perception. The major reason they are supporting Trump is that he is the only politician to give them a focus for their anger. That's why what he says does not make much difference.
1
These are the exact same people who voted for Brexit. And you know how that worked out. They as a bloc were decisive, adding to those who loathe immigration and feel disenfranchised. Trump is in with a better chance than you imagine. That vast un-measurable is a severe danger to a Clinton victory and she shows no sign of addressing their fears. Every day that passes endangers the Democratic Party candidates prospects. Imagine the disaster if he wins the popular vote but she wins the electoral college. A disaster for American democracy and her Presidency.
2
Fear is a powerful emotion, and Trump seems to have a particular talent to feed and tap into many peoples fear and anxiety. Anxiety of downward mobility is just one face of this fear. So is the racism and bigotry we see him stoking--watch out for all those Mexican rapists! The Republican convention was non-stop fear-mongering, but Republicans and plenty of conservative pundits and media have been feeding this nation this poison for decades now, so it's not surprising that so many people are clamoring for savior to beat back these (mostly contrived) threats.
2
You may be doing better than your parents, but luck might’ve played a very big role in it, and by luck, I’d include what is often seen as the reward of hard work, because you were fortunate enough to be able to develop marketable skills. Does anyone want to leave his or her children’s future up to chance, that everything will work out for him just so? Economically, people vote not just for who they are now, but also for what they once were, and might as easily still be.
3
Well, if we want social mobility, that means we will have downward mobility. Every person who moves from the bottom half to the top half means someone else is moving from the top half to the bottom half. Unless we want a calcified class structure (as many Trump supporters seem to want when pining for the days before minorities and immigrants were allowed to compete with them for jobs), we are going to have to accept that some people are going to be downwardly mobile.
4
I don't know. I wonder to what degree the responses to a survey question about whether you are doing better than your parents is based on perception rather than real, measurable factors. The "downwardly mobile" described in this piece just seem generally to be pessimists. So if we combine this with another finding that Trump supporters tended to have authoritarian leanings in common, then we get a bunch of pessimistic authoritarians. Nice.
6
We all have to believe in something. For some it's science. For others it's history, law, the constitution. For a great many it is faith in the almighty but it is always there. A belief helps you ride out the worst of times in hopes of the best to come.
What Trump offers some is a promise, mostly unsubstantiated, of instant fixes to their problems. It also assures some of them that their birthright, being born white, entitles them to a better life than the one they have or being able to keep hold of their birthright. Sadly, not many questions are asked of a con man but people fall for the promises regardless. They have to.
It's sad because voting in your best interests has become harder to discern. Trump is capitalizing on a growing frustration and has painted a country that doesn't really exist and his commentaries about Black lives completely dismiss the progress made, the entrepreneurship that has happened, the educational gains and seem rooted in the headlines from 50's and 60's newspapers.
And yes, there are still people on the lower rungs of the ladder but there is still a ladder. Progress is forward movement. What Trump really offers is going back to a time when white men were in charge of everything and society was tightly controlled, prospering only those privileged. Antiquated ideas may sound forceful but they don't work. In the meantime he continues to try to become anything they need him to be while being without any core values.
What Trump offers some is a promise, mostly unsubstantiated, of instant fixes to their problems. It also assures some of them that their birthright, being born white, entitles them to a better life than the one they have or being able to keep hold of their birthright. Sadly, not many questions are asked of a con man but people fall for the promises regardless. They have to.
It's sad because voting in your best interests has become harder to discern. Trump is capitalizing on a growing frustration and has painted a country that doesn't really exist and his commentaries about Black lives completely dismiss the progress made, the entrepreneurship that has happened, the educational gains and seem rooted in the headlines from 50's and 60's newspapers.
And yes, there are still people on the lower rungs of the ladder but there is still a ladder. Progress is forward movement. What Trump really offers is going back to a time when white men were in charge of everything and society was tightly controlled, prospering only those privileged. Antiquated ideas may sound forceful but they don't work. In the meantime he continues to try to become anything they need him to be while being without any core values.
5
I live in a traditionally working class state, and the overwhelming number of people I know struggling were Sanders supporters and now voting for Hillary or Jill Stein, not Trump, and none of them would even think about voting for him.
On the other hand, the number of middle class, older, white guys with decent or better jobs grousing about how "their" country needs to be taken back, or resentful because they are no longer given the preferential treatment in all things like their fathers and grandfathers were, are so numerous it's a downright joke. We all know what's going on here; it's too obvious to ignore. They want to be Trump. To say whatever they want about whomever and get away with it. They want his money and they want the choices Trump has had with women, and they want to be able to call all the shots like men used to be able to without question.
The world isn't going back to that way of life, so get used to their complaining and resentment until those generations are gone.
On the other hand, the number of middle class, older, white guys with decent or better jobs grousing about how "their" country needs to be taken back, or resentful because they are no longer given the preferential treatment in all things like their fathers and grandfathers were, are so numerous it's a downright joke. We all know what's going on here; it's too obvious to ignore. They want to be Trump. To say whatever they want about whomever and get away with it. They want his money and they want the choices Trump has had with women, and they want to be able to call all the shots like men used to be able to without question.
The world isn't going back to that way of life, so get used to their complaining and resentment until those generations are gone.
17
There is one group of voters, and only one, that are enamored with T rump.
Those would be the white people who felt somewhat assured that no matter how bad things might get for them down the line things would always be worse for their black and brown neighbors.
The republican party has assured them of the this since 1968 and in 1980 Reagan doubled down on that assurance. With the election, and subsequent success of Barack Obama as president their entire world view is now collapsed.
That these are also people who, upon seeing their neighbor working a good paying union job, would work to destroy that union so their neighbor had to work a job as bad as theirs, instead of joining that union for a better paying job, says a lot about the lowering of our educational standards.
We are constantly trying to run this vast and complex Nation on the cheap and it is just not working.
Those would be the white people who felt somewhat assured that no matter how bad things might get for them down the line things would always be worse for their black and brown neighbors.
The republican party has assured them of the this since 1968 and in 1980 Reagan doubled down on that assurance. With the election, and subsequent success of Barack Obama as president their entire world view is now collapsed.
That these are also people who, upon seeing their neighbor working a good paying union job, would work to destroy that union so their neighbor had to work a job as bad as theirs, instead of joining that union for a better paying job, says a lot about the lowering of our educational standards.
We are constantly trying to run this vast and complex Nation on the cheap and it is just not working.
23
One doesn't have to be downwardly mobile and a Trump supporter to feel dismay about the status of the country, distrust the institutions of government or the economy, or worry that the next generation will be worse off than the previous one. I am nearly retired, and while I have achieved a great deal in my life and trust that I will live comfortably for the rest of it -- and therefore vastly exceeded the material, social and intellectual experience of my own parents -- I see my children suffer with student debt that was unheard of in my college years, I am pessimistic that health care will ever become a right of all Americans rather than a vehicle for some to become obscenely wealthy, and I worry that climate change will continue to make this planet's future increasingly precarious. I don't see much hope for any of these things to change for the better, not because there aren't solutions, but because vested interests in America now have the vehicles for change in a stranglehold to preserve their well-being over the futures of so many others. I know that Donald Trump and the Republicans have no answers, but I am rapidly losing confidence that the Democrats, beholden to their financial lords, will fail to address these problems in the revolutionary way that their seriousness demands.
3
To fix these issues requires that citizens do more than sit in their armchairs and hope one of the two parties will come up with something. One must get politically involved to drive change. Look at the efforts of the African American and LGBT communities, where sitting around waiting for someone else to make things right never worked. As for the latter, people mobilized during the AIDS crisis and took care of each other (lesbians were very active in taking care of their gay brothers) when the government did nothing, and in fact, deliberately ignored an entire class of people because the public could not have cared less. Now the LGBT community has robust institutions that help people with legal aid, healthcare, and other services, and have worked hard, very hard, to get our voices heard. The problem with the mainstream American who isn't really feeling all that persecuted is that it's easy to just let things move along, status quo, hoping something will get better. When you're being beaten in the streets, or your rights are regularly and routinely abrogated, you have a much greater incentive to get political and do something to make things better. Get off your couch and get involved in your community. Do something to make your voice heard by your elected representatives. They only listen to the squeakiest wheels, and for the most part, those wheels are paid for by fat cats or religious fanatics. On student debt? Demand that your state fund higher education. Do something!
3
Too many people still view things from the vantage point of '50s through mid-'70s America, where a semi-skilled worker had a stable job that could support a whole family well. A look at the grand scheme of things shows that was a temporary historical accident; brought by a country that produced 70% of the world's output, while the rest were recovering from the war. While America still wins a lot, holders of that vision, who make up a big part of Trump's support, cannot shake the feeling that "We don't win anymore."
11
Absolutely agree. Too many people are also ignoring the fact that the standards of what constitutes "middle class" has changed greatly since the 50's. Most middle class families had ONE car, not gigantic pick ups and SUVs. No cell phones, computers, tablets, vacations every year, eating out frequently, activities galore for the kiddies along with all the gear that goes along with them, and many other products and services that are considered necessities now. And they certainly weren't paying $100+ a month to watch TV!
8
The "poorly educated" and racist Whites were the core of the Trump snowball. For all its accretions, that snowball is still not big enough to survive the heat of the remaining campaign. If we spend too much time examining one carbuncle on American politics, we're in serious danger of missing underlying causes and manifestations.
Nigel Farage shared a podium with Trump yesterday. Farage, the face of English white supremacy and the Brexit. Farage, who spent decades denigrating the EU while collecting salary and expenses checks from the Euro Parliament. Then there's Bannon a pustule on American life, but his agenda is probably more than just getting paid to be a nasty amoral creature. Expand the focus to include the Chinese and Russian hackers, Julian Assange, and Edward Snowden et al., and we see that America is under attack from without and from within, with an array of attacks aimed at destroying the American government. No American has supplied a coherent plan for an alternative system of governance. Like anarchists and revolutionaries through the ages, they seem to believe in the invisible hand of progress.
Nigel Farage shared a podium with Trump yesterday. Farage, the face of English white supremacy and the Brexit. Farage, who spent decades denigrating the EU while collecting salary and expenses checks from the Euro Parliament. Then there's Bannon a pustule on American life, but his agenda is probably more than just getting paid to be a nasty amoral creature. Expand the focus to include the Chinese and Russian hackers, Julian Assange, and Edward Snowden et al., and we see that America is under attack from without and from within, with an array of attacks aimed at destroying the American government. No American has supplied a coherent plan for an alternative system of governance. Like anarchists and revolutionaries through the ages, they seem to believe in the invisible hand of progress.
9
I think it's unfair to include Edward Snowden in that list.
5
NYT articles and comments are bashing the Trump supporters for variety of reasons, because it is politically correct to do so - they are uneducated, racist, angry, "holding on their guns and religion", etc.
Myself and many of my friends have graduate degrees, are Trump supporters, and are none of the above. People simple want LEADERSHIP and realism, and not another nearsighted lawyer/politician/idealist at the helm of the country.
Myself and many of my friends have graduate degrees, are Trump supporters, and are none of the above. People simple want LEADERSHIP and realism, and not another nearsighted lawyer/politician/idealist at the helm of the country.
4
Realism?? Accusing Obama of not being born in the USA and a Muslim (not that there's anything wrong with being a Muslim) - is that your idea of realism? Leadership?? Having to be kept in check by his kids and his campaign managers so as not to be too outrageously insulting to all and sundry? I am a New Yorker and I know a con when I see one!!!
10
"LEADERSHIP and realism". Better look elsewhere.
8
Leadership = "how to manage yourself through a bankruptcy" and tax evasion.
Quality goals.
Quality goals.
I'm struck by the tone of a remarkable number of comments. When you add in the Sanders supporters, you have about 25-30 million people screaming that the system isn't working the way we were tacitly promised it would. It's not racism or xenophobia in and of itself. But for some, those become much more attractive
I think Trump is a dangerous demagogue, and wouldn't vote for him for dog-catcher. But a YUUGE block of our friends and neighbors have identified a real problem. One that doesn't merit the name-calling and blame game that is going on in this Comments section along with many others.
Upward generational mobility isn't an unrealistic expectation. It's the course of human history, after all. Fix the problem, or US politics will get worse in the years ahead.
I think Trump is a dangerous demagogue, and wouldn't vote for him for dog-catcher. But a YUUGE block of our friends and neighbors have identified a real problem. One that doesn't merit the name-calling and blame game that is going on in this Comments section along with many others.
Upward generational mobility isn't an unrealistic expectation. It's the course of human history, after all. Fix the problem, or US politics will get worse in the years ahead.
4
Trump uses race to fire up his supporters, and Bernie used class. Of course, those two categories often overlap ... Bernie's message was much more salient for more people, even though many of those people (Trump followers) didn't realize it. They've been fed a steady diet of racism for centuries, so they don't realize that all people of certain classes have common cause (middle and lower). Race has been used effectively in this country since its founding to keep the poor folks divided and hating each other so they won't be able to unite and give the upper classes their due.
2
The only attractive thing about Trump is that he's not Mrs. Clinton. And even that's not enough to get me to vote for him.
1
How could we even think of electing a candidate who has nothing to contribute to our country....not even aggrandizing possibilities.....no plans, no dreams for the greater good.....except building a wall.......a candidate whose business dealings...which includes 4 bankruptcies.... are so hush, hush that he refuses to release his tax forms.......a candidate for the upper 1% with no thought about seniors living only on social security and their fear of losing that security....a candidate who couldn't care less about educating the young which includes homeless children or aiding our young college age students.. how could any one even think of electing this non-entity.
11
Ppeople respond to Donal for exactly the same reasons that people responded to Bernie. Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump both pandered to the disenfranchised.
Both of them attempted to inflame their constituencies against 'the system.' Both made their arguments against very narrow elements of complex issues.
Choosing to ignore the huge benefits bestowed on the US from international trade pacts over the past 25 years they promise to restore jobs that were actually lost to innovation, technology, automation and an international economy. Neither Bernie nor Donald point out the huge cost savings all Americans have enjoyed from globalization. Trade pacts are highly complex and the true beneficiary everyone. Eliminating them will not bring the jobs back, it will merely increase our costs.
Both politicians have pandered to the same group of people.
There simply wasn't enough room on the stage for both of these egomaniacs.Thank God Bernie didn't get the endorsement and that Trump seems to be imploding. For very similar reasons they both would have been horrible presidents.....
Both of them attempted to inflame their constituencies against 'the system.' Both made their arguments against very narrow elements of complex issues.
Choosing to ignore the huge benefits bestowed on the US from international trade pacts over the past 25 years they promise to restore jobs that were actually lost to innovation, technology, automation and an international economy. Neither Bernie nor Donald point out the huge cost savings all Americans have enjoyed from globalization. Trade pacts are highly complex and the true beneficiary everyone. Eliminating them will not bring the jobs back, it will merely increase our costs.
Both politicians have pandered to the same group of people.
There simply wasn't enough room on the stage for both of these egomaniacs.Thank God Bernie didn't get the endorsement and that Trump seems to be imploding. For very similar reasons they both would have been horrible presidents.....
10
The correlations are interesting, but don't really explain why Trump is the choice of those 'downwardly mobile' or those who believe they won't have a lifestyle that matches their parents. As the first generation of college graduates in my family, I am vastly more well off than my parents. My children, young adults, are where they would expect to be given their ages i.e. I didn't acquire a nice house, a new car and comfortable retirement savings by age 30 either. Despite having those things, however, I am very worried about 'downward mobility' in old age- as are my children. It has to do with no pension; reliance on the stock market for all of your financial security; healthcare costs that are bankrupting the middle class and wages that don't keep up with inflation- real inflation, for things that matter v the 'market basket of goods' nonsensical measure the government uses. The thing is, NOTHING Trump espouses will address any of these concerns, but will only make them worse.
6
Why is Trump popular with downwardly mobile whites? Read J. D. Vance's new book "Hillbilly Elegy." It will tell you all you need to know.
1
Trump has no familiarity with the lives he claims to be defending. He also is a real estate developer..I can't think of a more politically involved, insider, deal-making business that being a developer in NYC....it is not for the faint of heart to and those who play by the rules lose....I would love to know how many illegal immigrants were involved in his construction sites.
15
He had a bunch of Poles tear down the historic Bonwit Teller friezes--one of his more well-known and heinous stories. I think the workers were illegal-- can't remember--but he paid them either nothing or paid them in Vodka. He actually got caught at that one--only because of the outrage over the historic friezes he'd agreed to preserve while building his new building-- and there were repercussions.
1
I have known a large number of blacks -- both middle class and poor -- over the course of my life.
I have worked for blacks, employed blacks, been a guest in their homes, attended their funerals, their graduations, their weddings, their christenings and have occasionally posted their bail. The one thing I can tell you about them with absolute certainty is that they enjoy laughing.
I find it impossible to believe that many blacks will vote for Mr. Trump. He isn’t funny.
I have worked for blacks, employed blacks, been a guest in their homes, attended their funerals, their graduations, their weddings, their christenings and have occasionally posted their bail. The one thing I can tell you about them with absolute certainty is that they enjoy laughing.
I find it impossible to believe that many blacks will vote for Mr. Trump. He isn’t funny.
8
It seems to me the popular idea of success has also changed. The "reference group" used to measure success is not (only) our parents anymore, but the relentless barrage of unrealistically wealthy characters splashed across our TV shows, Instagram feeds, and now political arena. These personas are the new conspicuous consumers. Whether it's a 'Real' Housewife, Trump, the Kardashians & the Hiltons, Jay Z, "rich kid" of Instagram, etc. etc., these personas reinforce an idea that was alien to my grandmother: that wasting money on 'luxury experiences', fast fashion, the newest model of fill-in-the-blank, and constant consumerism was the central definition of success.
My grandmother explained to me how she became upwardly mobile from her childhood as a poor sharecropper's daughter, living on a dirt floor and picking cotton, to her current middle class existence. She taught herself to sew her own clothes, so she looked sharp even on a tight budget. She taught herself the piano, and made inroads with the neighborhood by playing piano (by ear) for community events, eventually landing a job with a church. She memorized all those Emily Post books and hosted local leaders for lunch or card games. And finally, she married my grandfather, a Navy officer who was dedicated to family, service, and God. They worked hard, served their community, and achieved their successful American life.
Our current idea of success in America has the value of last year's cell phone model.
My grandmother explained to me how she became upwardly mobile from her childhood as a poor sharecropper's daughter, living on a dirt floor and picking cotton, to her current middle class existence. She taught herself to sew her own clothes, so she looked sharp even on a tight budget. She taught herself the piano, and made inroads with the neighborhood by playing piano (by ear) for community events, eventually landing a job with a church. She memorized all those Emily Post books and hosted local leaders for lunch or card games. And finally, she married my grandfather, a Navy officer who was dedicated to family, service, and God. They worked hard, served their community, and achieved their successful American life.
Our current idea of success in America has the value of last year's cell phone model.
7
For members of the hollowed-out former middle class that comprise the downwardly mobile to whom Trump and Sanders were appealing, those 'luxury experiences' now constitute having enough to eat, keeping the lights on, and similar indulgences.
'Well, we're waiting here in Allentown/for the Pennsylvania we never found/All the promises our teachers gave,/If we worked hard, if we behaved;/So our graduations hang on the wall,/But they never really helped us at all,' Billy Joel sang of a previous round of the disenfranchised. 'But something happened on the way to that place; they threw an American flag in our face.'
That former middle class - which now includes not only the blue-collar and semi-skilled workers, but college professionals - have mostly had modest dreams of stability, not so different from the dreams of Jurgus Rudkus in Upton Sinclair's The Jungle: a home of one's own, security, a fair day's pay, a little left over. Don't confuse the freak show on so-called reality TV with what they necessarily aspire to. The poor-to-average have always used the upper classes as entertainment, to gawp, mock, smirk, and cluck-cluck at from a position of presumed moral superiority.
'Well, we're waiting here in Allentown/for the Pennsylvania we never found/All the promises our teachers gave,/If we worked hard, if we behaved;/So our graduations hang on the wall,/But they never really helped us at all,' Billy Joel sang of a previous round of the disenfranchised. 'But something happened on the way to that place; they threw an American flag in our face.'
That former middle class - which now includes not only the blue-collar and semi-skilled workers, but college professionals - have mostly had modest dreams of stability, not so different from the dreams of Jurgus Rudkus in Upton Sinclair's The Jungle: a home of one's own, security, a fair day's pay, a little left over. Don't confuse the freak show on so-called reality TV with what they necessarily aspire to. The poor-to-average have always used the upper classes as entertainment, to gawp, mock, smirk, and cluck-cluck at from a position of presumed moral superiority.
Well said.
The very point of this article is that the people who support Trump are *not*, as the study shows, worrying about "having enough to eat" or "keeping the lights on".
"...those who held favorable views of Mr. Trump had higher incomes...Their happiness depends on their reference group: whom are they comparing themselves to?"
I think the people who confuse Trump's ambitions with their own are exactly the people who aspire to the bullish behavior and "luxuries" paraded on reality shows and elsewhere in our culture.
"...those who held favorable views of Mr. Trump had higher incomes...Their happiness depends on their reference group: whom are they comparing themselves to?"
I think the people who confuse Trump's ambitions with their own are exactly the people who aspire to the bullish behavior and "luxuries" paraded on reality shows and elsewhere in our culture.
What really confuses me is why the downwardly mobile would basically continue to support the party that has created the polices that lead to their downward mobility. Do they not understand that the increased power and influence of the wealthy and corporations promoted by Republican policies has taken power from the workers (them), which has lead to their downward mobility. Then again, maybe they are downwardly mobile because of intrinsic attributes rather than governmental policies.
17
Its not just "downwardly" mobile that support DJT, so do a lot of the upwardly mobile. One the biggest misconceptions of the Trump campaign conjured up by the left wing is that uneducated whites support DJT. While that maybe true, there are also a lot educated whites who support him. Instead of maligning the down trodden, why doesn't the left reach out to them? Why? Because the groovy left only wnats contact with groovy people like themselves. People who do not physical labor, people who only sit around drinking lattes all day in front of laptop. One day, if the left does not do something to be inclusive, to reach out to the less educated and working class whites, the nation is going to be in a lot of trouble as the discontent brewing in this cohort will explode and leave the left' heads spinning.
3
Maybe get out a bit more.
4
You're implying the Republicans reach out to the downtrodden? Because Trump IS running as a Republican. PS I'm a groovy non-latte drinking downwardly mobile lefty.
3
Seriously? You think teachers, blue collar union workers etc. sit around sipping lattes all day?
3
Some may sniff that those of us who worry about the future are "downwardly mobile." Others might agree that the current irrelevance of every one of the Ten Commandments, the complete obliteration of all cultural norms, the explosion of national debt in excess of Nineteen Trillion Dollars, the unconscionable amount of state and municipal pension and health care obligations in excess of One Hundred Trillion Dollars, e.g., have lead to morally bankruptcy and soon, financial collapse.
Some of us know how to work. Others, not so much.
Some of us know how to work. Others, not so much.
2
So according to you, Trump somehow represents the ten commandments? *mind blown*
11
I find personal stories like the one told in J.D. Vance's "Hillbilly Elegy" to be more informative than opinion polling statistics. It's hard for me to understand what people expect from their lives when they don't take advantage of the educational and work opportunities available to them, fall victim to the temptations of drugs and alcohol, and then blame others for their downwardly mobile situation. Vance was lucky to have a few "anchors" in his family to keep him pointed in the right direction. For children who don't, we need to instill in them the idea that they can learn as much from a bad example as a good one, and to make sure that help is always available for them.
5
Excellent book. Should be required reading for all Americans. Even better, listen to him read the book on Audible. It's an education in American history and sociology.
I wonder how much of this anger and distrust stems from downwardly mobile white males’ feelings of entitlement and resentment toward those of color and women who are better off than they are. I would suggest that if they see a successful white male, his success is due to hard work and intelligence while a minorities’ success is due to affirmative action or a rigged system. One could postulate that if their parents were better off than they are, then they most likely had advantages growing up that others may not have had. So what happened? It stands to reason that the belief that they are somehow entitled to a better life than their parents is a major factor in the downwardly mobiles’ lack of success. If you believe that it is your birthright to be successful in America, then why should you have to work hard and if you do work but make bad life choices then it is “their” fault not yours? There is a factor of personal responsibility here that is not being acknowledged.
11
I don't know about the married white males, but my advice to the single white male would be not to bemoan the success of women but to find a woman who is better off than you are and marry her.
5
I have found one thing that ties all of the Trump supporters I know together. They don't like that a black man was " allowed" to be our president.
Talk around it all you want, everyone knows it's. the last breath of the white man's " deserving" to win.
Talk around it all you want, everyone knows it's. the last breath of the white man's " deserving" to win.
21
How would I cite "everyone knows" in a research paper?
Do I insert a footnote and then at the bottom of the page show a "1. Everyone knows this"?
And then how do I handle it in the bibliography?
Do I insert a footnote and then at the bottom of the page show a "1. Everyone knows this"?
And then how do I handle it in the bibliography?
7
How do you know they don't like him? Have they ever met him? How can you dislike someone you've never met?
I think what you mean is they dislike his policies or the direction he is taking this country. I never voted for Obama but I can't say I don't like him because I've never met him. He might be a real nice guy for all I know but I voted for the candidates each time that I thought would do a better job.
You can always tell those making comments here that have never had significant hiring responsibilities. Over the course of my career, I have chosen not to hire plenty of people who I liked a lot. They weren't a good fit for our company and in some cases weren't qualified - but I liked them. Conversely, I hired a number of people who I didn't like at all. But they ended up being great employees. This doesn't mean I was wrong. I still don't like them but they're good at what they do and are fantastic employees.
I think what you mean is they dislike his policies or the direction he is taking this country. I never voted for Obama but I can't say I don't like him because I've never met him. He might be a real nice guy for all I know but I voted for the candidates each time that I thought would do a better job.
You can always tell those making comments here that have never had significant hiring responsibilities. Over the course of my career, I have chosen not to hire plenty of people who I liked a lot. They weren't a good fit for our company and in some cases weren't qualified - but I liked them. Conversely, I hired a number of people who I didn't like at all. But they ended up being great employees. This doesn't mean I was wrong. I still don't like them but they're good at what they do and are fantastic employees.
1
'I have found one thing that ties all of the Trump supporters I know together'
And how many would that be? I'm reminded of the joke about feuding authors who meet at a cocktail party. "Since we last met," writer A informs writer B proudly, "my readership has doubled!" Writer B brightens: "Mazel tov! You got married!"
I absolutely despise Trump. I agree his support has a distinct subdivision comprising the irredeemably racist, including 'birthers', those who insist Obama is a Muslim (though if he were, it wouldn't matter; the Constitution specifies no religious test is required to hold any office) etc. But the NYT commentariat tends, like much of the Internet in general, to comprise a self-reinforcing echo chamber; and I would be very surprised if many of the participants had, in the real world, much personal acquaintance with Trump stalwarts, and vice-versa. Rather, I think both are whacking away at straw men made up of tired stereotypes.
Rather than just denouncing these people en masse, get to know a few as individuals. You might be surprised - just as they might be surprised if they'd get to know, say, you.
And how many would that be? I'm reminded of the joke about feuding authors who meet at a cocktail party. "Since we last met," writer A informs writer B proudly, "my readership has doubled!" Writer B brightens: "Mazel tov! You got married!"
I absolutely despise Trump. I agree his support has a distinct subdivision comprising the irredeemably racist, including 'birthers', those who insist Obama is a Muslim (though if he were, it wouldn't matter; the Constitution specifies no religious test is required to hold any office) etc. But the NYT commentariat tends, like much of the Internet in general, to comprise a self-reinforcing echo chamber; and I would be very surprised if many of the participants had, in the real world, much personal acquaintance with Trump stalwarts, and vice-versa. Rather, I think both are whacking away at straw men made up of tired stereotypes.
Rather than just denouncing these people en masse, get to know a few as individuals. You might be surprised - just as they might be surprised if they'd get to know, say, you.
1
We are rapidly becoming an "ingrate" nation. Even many of my fellow residents here in Orange County, CA, which must be one of the wealthiest urban areas the world has ever known, often complain vaguely that "things" could and should be better than they are. Few seem to realize that most of the very positive government programs for seniors and middle class families were put into place by politicians with liberal leanings.
9
One often sees in the pages of the NYTimes unfavorable views and opinions of Donald Trump. They are monotonous in their common refrain. We know who Trump is. So what? This knowledge does not take us anywhere. There is a more interesting question to ask: What has made Trump possible? The usual answer coming from the liberals is as unimaginative as it is demeaning: people who support Trump are stupid. So were the supporters of Bernie Sanders. They were called alternately naïve and stupid. The common tendency in such comments is to put the blame elsewhere, rather than take a critical look of oneself. And there is plenty to look at there. There have been many warnings in the past. Neoliberalism is not a new phenomenon. It is already over 30 years old. What have the so-called “progressive” liberals done over this period, other than embrace a softer version of the same neoliberalism? Nothing. What do they plan to do? More of the same. They are strengthening their hierarchies and mobilizing the masses in the conflict for which they are largely responsible.
4
I guess I really value Trump demonstrating to the GOP elite that what they thought was their base, targeted since Nixon's southern strategy, is done buying what they're selling. The GOP needs another crowd of suckers to vote them in to give tax cuts to the rich. It's true that Trump is pivoting toward the GOP platform of tax cuts for the rich and impoverishment of the rest so they don't quibble over what jobs are available.
7
I have many Republican friends and colleagues that are all college-educated, (many with post-graduate degrees). They all make good money. They all will NOT vote for HRC. Some of them will go ahead and vote for Mr. Trump, and some of them admit that they know he is a cad, unfit for the office, and are dismayed about what to do. NONE, and I repeat NONE of them will cross over from their Republican stance. All of them also have an intense dislike for Mr. Obama. Most of these are men; none of which I can say are nothing less than deep-thinking, humane and egalitarian. They all display a deep belief that Democratic policies are the absolute demise of the US, by promoting 'hand-outs' and focusing on social policy. There is a very large population of these Republicans that none of the columnists are talking about.
7
It doesn't matter of course. Early voting is starting in a matter of days. There's no more time to make up new poses and excuses or whine about unfairness or imaginary slights. The game Trump's been playing is over. All that are left are some lovely parting gifts for Mr. Trump and instructions about how to file the tax due on his winnings.
6
We need to stand back and see the big picture.Two hundred years on,the US is sufficiently "mature" for an Old World type class system to emerge.Transition into more of a "Knowledge economy" in an era of Globalization serves to accelerate development of such a class system.The apparent disconnect between our culture (The American Dream) and winners and losers in terms of social class serves to amplify the feelings of relative downward movement for themselves and more of the same for their offspring.This November this group will choose between two messages;"We will force companies to operate in the US and reduce competition for jobs from immigrants" (Trump) and" we will create millions of good paying jobs" (Clinton).The Trump message is superficially credible but in reality will destroy jobs,thereby creating more 'downwardly mobile'.The Clinton message is regarded as meaningless after 8 years of a Democratic President.Unfortunately for all of us,the downwardly mobile see Trump as a better bet.
1
Democrats ignore at their peril that the "downwardly mobile" supporting Trump are not just limited to the stereotypical non-college educated unemployed factory worker who is falling for racist and xenophobic scapegoating.
Today's "blue collar worker" is anyone dependent on the sale of his labor in a buyer's market. It could be a cubicle rat writing code or in a call center, it could be a professional in any field outside of finance and banking.
HRC will learn this soon enough as she pivots back to the center right, not really understanding what's happened since Bill's presidency. If she and Congress are not successful in beginning to address the economic malaise of the 99%, Trump may be be vanquished, but Trumpism will not die and will return in 2020, in both parties.
Today's "blue collar worker" is anyone dependent on the sale of his labor in a buyer's market. It could be a cubicle rat writing code or in a call center, it could be a professional in any field outside of finance and banking.
HRC will learn this soon enough as she pivots back to the center right, not really understanding what's happened since Bill's presidency. If she and Congress are not successful in beginning to address the economic malaise of the 99%, Trump may be be vanquished, but Trumpism will not die and will return in 2020, in both parties.
3
Get real. All this attempt to correlate Trump"s appeal to economic theory is hogwash and gives far too much credence to Trump's fig leaf. It's all about racism and zenophobia.
13
I'd like to see similar research done on behalf of Afro- Americans, Latinos and other recent immigrants to this country. Of course, the questions would have to be adjusted to their particular circumstances (if fairness is an issue). There was a time when the people who are presently 'downwardly mobile' were immigrants themselves.
It's also interesting to read this article in light of your recent piece featuring the comments of Trump followers at some of his rallies. Seems like folks and their viewpoints have been cleaned up a bit in this article. Also, it might be nice to get a take on how Republican negativity has contributed to the current state of affairs as far as their downward mobility is concerned. Speaking of which, I wonder how the folks in Atlantic City feel about trusting a man who didn't keep his promises, and left them high and dry as far as their own employment is concerned.
Also, Afro Americans have profound concerns about a man who expresses an ignorance which borders on contempt regarding the challenges we are and will be facing running things in the future. Maybe he should learn a little bit more about some of the people he's asking for support. It would be refreshing and encouraging if he did. But maybe his, and other Republicans armchair negative assumptions will have to do.
It's also interesting to read this article in light of your recent piece featuring the comments of Trump followers at some of his rallies. Seems like folks and their viewpoints have been cleaned up a bit in this article. Also, it might be nice to get a take on how Republican negativity has contributed to the current state of affairs as far as their downward mobility is concerned. Speaking of which, I wonder how the folks in Atlantic City feel about trusting a man who didn't keep his promises, and left them high and dry as far as their own employment is concerned.
Also, Afro Americans have profound concerns about a man who expresses an ignorance which borders on contempt regarding the challenges we are and will be facing running things in the future. Maybe he should learn a little bit more about some of the people he's asking for support. It would be refreshing and encouraging if he did. But maybe his, and other Republicans armchair negative assumptions will have to do.
4
If downward mobility, or fear of it, is what paves the way for a race-baiting demagogue like Trump, then I fear he will not be the last of this line in the US or elsewhere around the globe. A stalled economy and our depreciated natural capital will ensure there's plenty of downward mobility to go around.
Unless we do something to check climate change, the lives of the children and future generations will be immeasurably worse. We are leaving them a depleted, polluted planet and a built environment that will be costly, if not impossible, to maintain against rising seas and more intense storms. They will think back to the "good old days" with anger and resentment at all of us who are feasting before the famine.
Unless we do something to check climate change, the lives of the children and future generations will be immeasurably worse. We are leaving them a depleted, polluted planet and a built environment that will be costly, if not impossible, to maintain against rising seas and more intense storms. They will think back to the "good old days" with anger and resentment at all of us who are feasting before the famine.
4
First of all, the argument of people feeling less secure about their future has no economic data to support it. Data released by the Bureau of Labor shows that inflation adjusted income levels among all the different labor types - manufacturing, services, agriculture, etc. has been increasing steadily over the past 2 decades.
As for the second argument that we always glorify the past while downplaying the future - that is a larger human trait and not restricted to just a particular income group. Even wealthy bankers will tell us that the 1980s through the 2000s were better despite the Savings and Loan debacle and the capitulation of Salomon Bros, LTCM, Bear Stearns and Lehman Bros.
People across all income levels live longer today and have more access to health, education and employment opportunities. The fact that a small segment of the population might not be willing to become flexible in pursuance of individual betterment is not an argument for why Society is broke. That is nonsensical.
Trump's appeal could have been - "Things are ok but they could be better and here is how". Instead, he appeals to the primal instincts of people via hate, fear and paranoia. It would be illusory, specious and foolish to devise ways of parsing the data to rationalize such emotions.
Focus instead on how to bring the disillusioned into the fold of the mainstream. Work on identifying the gaps that need to be filled as opposed to portraying those gaps as wide social chasms.
As for the second argument that we always glorify the past while downplaying the future - that is a larger human trait and not restricted to just a particular income group. Even wealthy bankers will tell us that the 1980s through the 2000s were better despite the Savings and Loan debacle and the capitulation of Salomon Bros, LTCM, Bear Stearns and Lehman Bros.
People across all income levels live longer today and have more access to health, education and employment opportunities. The fact that a small segment of the population might not be willing to become flexible in pursuance of individual betterment is not an argument for why Society is broke. That is nonsensical.
Trump's appeal could have been - "Things are ok but they could be better and here is how". Instead, he appeals to the primal instincts of people via hate, fear and paranoia. It would be illusory, specious and foolish to devise ways of parsing the data to rationalize such emotions.
Focus instead on how to bring the disillusioned into the fold of the mainstream. Work on identifying the gaps that need to be filled as opposed to portraying those gaps as wide social chasms.
5
"Things are OK but they could be better and here is how" - would not fit on a baseball cap or bumper sticker.
1
Op-eds like this one mount to only desperate attempts by the left to make people believe the Trump campaign is in trouble. What these brilliant "opinionators" don't realize, or maybe they do, is that they are only "preaching to the choir," The people who support DJT don't listen to the liberal media, they get their news from other sources, which report the strength of the Trump campaign.
4
Golly, one might opine that both sides are biased. Wow. Gee-whiz!
3
Well the GOP did not know it lost the last election - so maybe get a couple of different news sources.
And Sean Hannity is not a "news source". He is a hack.
And Sean Hannity is not a "news source". He is a hack.
5
The sticking point for me is that a 25 year old is asked if they are more or less successsful than their parents. How can a 25 year old compare their standard of living to that of say a 50 year old. A 25 year old has only just begun. At the age of 25, I was not as successful as my parents, I did have a college degree, but I was working two jobs to pay for college loans, a car and rent. Today as I reflect back, I have exceeded my parents standard of living, but at age 25, I would have never been able to predict this and may have even felt concern for not measuring up.
However, I do believe that we, as a society, need to address job readiness with a high school diploma. We focus most of our resources on the high school diploma that will be used to enter college and not everyone is interested in that pursuit. We should be graduating machinists, entry-level engineers and mechanics from high school. The positions can earn a livable wage and we fall short in this training. We need to foster opportunities that maintain a strong American for all.
However, I do believe that we, as a society, need to address job readiness with a high school diploma. We focus most of our resources on the high school diploma that will be used to enter college and not everyone is interested in that pursuit. We should be graduating machinists, entry-level engineers and mechanics from high school. The positions can earn a livable wage and we fall short in this training. We need to foster opportunities that maintain a strong American for all.
3
Let's not forget that the most consistent predictor of Trump's support is racial anxiety. You can slice and dice the demographics however you wish, but that's the baseline. Everything else is just incidental. Go to a Trump rally and randomly talk to them; engage Trumpers online; read what they write in their blogs and fora. You will find over and over and over again variations on this preamble: I'm no racist but...
9
It's not just the "downwardly mobile" who think that the "system is rigged", or that there is a serious employment problem across the country, and that there are dominant classes emerging - ones which seem intent on closing ranks to others. Those privileged by wealth, income education - -who believe, that their success proves they are entitled to their higher wealth or better jobs, and that it is the fault of those who are left behind that they haven't thrived. Once there was a widespread belief that some were racially inferior; now I think that the belief may be that all those with lower incomes are by definition intellectually inferior. It makes it easier to excuse the failures in our society when the "loser class" is defined as different and less-than, responsible for it's own ills.
It isn't only Trump supporters who think that elected officials have been, too often, bought, and at the federal level, have lost sight of the needs of "average" people and the future of the country as a whole.
But Trump pushes - as has GOP for years - scapegoating of minorities - and groundless attacks on any handy target - to divert attention FROM identifying core problems and changes needed, TO venting anger.
What the white Trumpsters don't seem to get is that he will allow the very politicians who are the least likely to represent any interests of the former working class to control decisions. Trump disdains the very people he's wooing; all is about manipulation of the audience.
It isn't only Trump supporters who think that elected officials have been, too often, bought, and at the federal level, have lost sight of the needs of "average" people and the future of the country as a whole.
But Trump pushes - as has GOP for years - scapegoating of minorities - and groundless attacks on any handy target - to divert attention FROM identifying core problems and changes needed, TO venting anger.
What the white Trumpsters don't seem to get is that he will allow the very politicians who are the least likely to represent any interests of the former working class to control decisions. Trump disdains the very people he's wooing; all is about manipulation of the audience.
12
Would the 'downwardly mobile" feel any better now if Congress over the past 7+ years had passed some of the various infrastructure proposals submitted by the Obama administration? I suspect they would be happy with increased employment, better wages, and even a sense they were possibly going to be better off than their parents. So why now are they willing to support a GOP candidate when it was that party that stiffed them?
22
That's a good point. But Congress did pass an $830 billion stimulus package while the democrat party controlled both houses. $275 billion of this went to tax breaks.
The problem is that when politicians tell us that this infrastructure spending or any other well intentioned government program will create jobs, increase wages, etc. - people simply don't believe them.
They have access to all sorts of information now and understand there is no way to prove it when people claim that had congress done X, Y would have been the result. Pundits can opine on it. Politicians can make the claims. And some people might even buy into it.
But many have are sick of being lied to and treated like chumps. There is enough data out there now that enables regular people to go back and look at what the government said a particular program would cost or what it's projected outcome would be. Then, these same regular people can check and see what the program actually cost the taxpayers and what the results have been.
The problem is that when politicians tell us that this infrastructure spending or any other well intentioned government program will create jobs, increase wages, etc. - people simply don't believe them.
They have access to all sorts of information now and understand there is no way to prove it when people claim that had congress done X, Y would have been the result. Pundits can opine on it. Politicians can make the claims. And some people might even buy into it.
But many have are sick of being lied to and treated like chumps. There is enough data out there now that enables regular people to go back and look at what the government said a particular program would cost or what it's projected outcome would be. Then, these same regular people can check and see what the program actually cost the taxpayers and what the results have been.
2
Super wealthy Trump has profited from trickle-down tax cuts for the rich at the expense of the nation. He plans for even more tax cuts for the top 1%. Trump will not end Citizens United and slow the massive flow of corporate money into politics. Trump has demonstrated complete contempt for the workingman throughout his entire business career. He has demonstrated complete ignorance of how the economy actually works.
The racism and rabid xenophobia that Trump spews attracts an electorate that does not care that he is a spoiled rich boy that will do nothing to improve their lives. The fear and hatred that Trump knowingly exploits blinds his supporters to the reality of who Trump is, and that is the key to his success.
The racism and rabid xenophobia that Trump spews attracts an electorate that does not care that he is a spoiled rich boy that will do nothing to improve their lives. The fear and hatred that Trump knowingly exploits blinds his supporters to the reality of who Trump is, and that is the key to his success.
17
I am a senior citizen and the contents of this article resonated with me for many reasons, but primarily because I am so sad as to the legacy I am leaving my kids and grandchildren. To me and many others, the Government is broken, rife with political divide that can not be breached, a Supreme Court that is totally partisan and cannot rule on law, but instead rules on their affiliation, and just corruption and congressmen and senators beholden to lobbyists and special interests, with their only interest is having a job for life.
To me the 'anointed one" represents business as usual, i.e. throwing money at problems, which do nothing to change the basic corruption, that solves nothing, and will simply carry on with a third Obama term. Look at some of inner cities, that have been thrown billions of dollars and have not changed at all. I do not like Obama for his socialist ideas, but as a Republican, I admired the fact that Clinton number one knew how to work with both sides of the aisles to get things done.
Clinton is a dishonest, liar who skirts the rules, and is totally corrupt, but is covered by rules that only apply to the Clintons, not us regular folks. I can tell you that if a Republican did 10% of what she did, he would be run out of the campaign so fast it would be breathtaking. Trump, is bombastic Trump and yet he provides a chance that an outsider can chip away at the mess we are in in every sphere - he can make a difference.
To me the 'anointed one" represents business as usual, i.e. throwing money at problems, which do nothing to change the basic corruption, that solves nothing, and will simply carry on with a third Obama term. Look at some of inner cities, that have been thrown billions of dollars and have not changed at all. I do not like Obama for his socialist ideas, but as a Republican, I admired the fact that Clinton number one knew how to work with both sides of the aisles to get things done.
Clinton is a dishonest, liar who skirts the rules, and is totally corrupt, but is covered by rules that only apply to the Clintons, not us regular folks. I can tell you that if a Republican did 10% of what she did, he would be run out of the campaign so fast it would be breathtaking. Trump, is bombastic Trump and yet he provides a chance that an outsider can chip away at the mess we are in in every sphere - he can make a difference.
14
"a chance that an outsider can chip away at the mess we are in"
How exactly, when the man has no clue as to the business of governance?
How exactly, when the man has no clue as to the business of governance?
15
What makes me sad is that so many Trump supporters find living freely in the most economically advanced, militarily powerful, stable, generally safe, open, beautiful country on earth problematic. But not problematic enough that they won't deny those same opportunities to others seeking safety and opportunity.
I am proud and excited about the opportunities my children will have as Americans. I hope they will be grateful for that gift. Maybe if you step back, you'll feel more grateful as well.
I am proud and excited about the opportunities my children will have as Americans. I hope they will be grateful for that gift. Maybe if you step back, you'll feel more grateful as well.
9
" I can tell you that if a Republican did 10% of what she did... "What did she do? Outside the fevered discourse of the Murdoch Banditry? Trump can make no difference other that allowing anarchists and white supremacists to rule.
7
There must be another huge variable besides economics ones that lead to Trump support. A similar economic issue likely applies to Sanders voters, especially young people who fear for their future. It's about where they assign blame. Sanders supporters blame big corporations and the wealthy and Trump supporters blame racial minorities and immigrants.
9
"... people’s satisfaction with their standard of living, and their subsequent political choices, depends on ... their reference group: whom are they comparing themselves to?"
You need a survey to back this up? It's a platitude.
Even simple judgments/classifications depend on "contrast class." A color might be orange compared to red but red compared to yellow. And these are not relative terms like short/tall, fast/slow--needing a benchmark for comparison,really shorthand for "shorter/taller" than X.
"Satisfaction" is even trickier. logically. It's etymon is Latin for "payment of a debt or obligation." Debt/satisfaction is analogous to appetite/gratification (want or privation/replenishment). Eating satisfies hunger--it fills the need and shuts off the craving. (Dieters look for ways to shut off the craving without eating.)
"Self-Satisfaction" implies a vice--thinking you are perfect, improvement impossible. It is almost always possible. (But it's a mistake to say perfection itself is impossible--that makes the standards too high--impossible to reach, so incoherent.)
"Quality of life" could be a matter of biological functioning--healthy/ill; or a matter of life-style--more generally well-faring/ ill-faring. Both judgments presume "standards of living"--but very different ones.
And for both, satisfaction with the present--compared to the past, is not satisfied compare to the future--you keep exercising or climbing an economic ladder. So too "States of the Union."
You need a survey to back this up? It's a platitude.
Even simple judgments/classifications depend on "contrast class." A color might be orange compared to red but red compared to yellow. And these are not relative terms like short/tall, fast/slow--needing a benchmark for comparison,really shorthand for "shorter/taller" than X.
"Satisfaction" is even trickier. logically. It's etymon is Latin for "payment of a debt or obligation." Debt/satisfaction is analogous to appetite/gratification (want or privation/replenishment). Eating satisfies hunger--it fills the need and shuts off the craving. (Dieters look for ways to shut off the craving without eating.)
"Self-Satisfaction" implies a vice--thinking you are perfect, improvement impossible. It is almost always possible. (But it's a mistake to say perfection itself is impossible--that makes the standards too high--impossible to reach, so incoherent.)
"Quality of life" could be a matter of biological functioning--healthy/ill; or a matter of life-style--more generally well-faring/ ill-faring. Both judgments presume "standards of living"--but very different ones.
And for both, satisfaction with the present--compared to the past, is not satisfied compare to the future--you keep exercising or climbing an economic ladder. So too "States of the Union."
3
It seems to me that rather than complaining about one's own poor decisions in life, and throwing your hat in with a racist and misogynist idiot, it would be more productive to make some real changes to improve your situation. Get an education. Make sure your kids get an education. Make sure public education in your state is adequately funded. The fastest way to switch from "downwardly mobile" to "upwardly mobile" is education, education, education.
13
One thing Trump knows for sure: Talk Is Cheap.
He has actually done zero to show that his talk manifests itself into more than hot air. He builds luxury buildings, casinos, fake universities, rents out his name, he ups the rent on the GOP 4-fold, he attracts the likes of the KKK.
He sells hot air and his followers are buying it.
He has actually done zero to show that his talk manifests itself into more than hot air. He builds luxury buildings, casinos, fake universities, rents out his name, he ups the rent on the GOP 4-fold, he attracts the likes of the KKK.
He sells hot air and his followers are buying it.
15
Please set your hatred and disgust aside and listen to Donald Trump. He is going to remove gangs from inner cities, he is going to provide school choice, he is going to re-negotiate trade deals that are favorable to American workers and he is going to lower taxes and regulations for entrepreneurs. How is this not an appealing strategy for Americans across all income and racial lines? Stop the hating and start listening to what he says. There's plenty of room on the Trump Train for everyone!
5
"He is going to remove gangs from inner cities" - I live in Chicago. Explain how.
"He is going to provide school choice" - What does this even mean? Also, how will he accomplish this, and who does "school choice" benefit and how?
"He is going to re-negotiate trade deals that are favorable to American workers" - How? Also, explain how this will benefit American workers. Where will the magic factories open? Who will manage the factories? Who will work in the factories and when/how will they learn the new skills they will need? How will it be funded?
"He is going to lower taxes and regulations for entrepreneurs" - Did you mean "millionaires"?
"He is going to provide school choice" - What does this even mean? Also, how will he accomplish this, and who does "school choice" benefit and how?
"He is going to re-negotiate trade deals that are favorable to American workers" - How? Also, explain how this will benefit American workers. Where will the magic factories open? Who will manage the factories? Who will work in the factories and when/how will they learn the new skills they will need? How will it be funded?
"He is going to lower taxes and regulations for entrepreneurs" - Did you mean "millionaires"?
21
Debate over school choice has been a pretty big deal in Chicago over the past few years. If you don't know how it works and who benefits from it, check your local paper. The Trib has written about it extensively.
Is an entrepreneur and a millionaire the same thing? Absolutely not. But most, if not all, entrepreneurs strive to be millionaires.
Is an entrepreneur and a millionaire the same thing? Absolutely not. But most, if not all, entrepreneurs strive to be millionaires.
"going to"
"going to"
"going to"
"going to"
And yet, the Trump clothing lines and other items are/were made where? Mexico, China, Bangladesh.
The problem with the Trump "plans" are that they are talk.
"going to"
"going to"
"going to"
And yet, the Trump clothing lines and other items are/were made where? Mexico, China, Bangladesh.
The problem with the Trump "plans" are that they are talk.
5
The description of Trump supporters looks darn close to a description of Sanders supporters, in the sense that they fear the governing institutions have little regard for them and that their interests are regularly being traded away for the benefit of the wealthy, the comfortable and the care free. For that reaswon, Chernin's essay is unhelpful.
The vital distinction to recognize is that Sanders encouraged his supporters toward participation and reform of ill-served sectors, from education to infrastructure to excessive concentration of influence in the wealthy. Trump encourages his supporters to exclusion, disrespect for the vulnerable and ethnically "other" with a clear approval of violence, and blind anger and resentment towards all disagreement, real or potential, and all with no coherent plan to approve the lot of those supporters. Plus, of course, the crybaby resort to "unfairness" on the part of interviewers, judges, and even the U.S. election process to preempt the legitimacy of any popular judgment that he is dishonest, unqualified, unsuccessful and unlovable.
The vital distinction to recognize is that Sanders encouraged his supporters toward participation and reform of ill-served sectors, from education to infrastructure to excessive concentration of influence in the wealthy. Trump encourages his supporters to exclusion, disrespect for the vulnerable and ethnically "other" with a clear approval of violence, and blind anger and resentment towards all disagreement, real or potential, and all with no coherent plan to approve the lot of those supporters. Plus, of course, the crybaby resort to "unfairness" on the part of interviewers, judges, and even the U.S. election process to preempt the legitimacy of any popular judgment that he is dishonest, unqualified, unsuccessful and unlovable.
6
Trump's latest blatantly racist appeal to Blacks, "What have you got to lose?" has done more damage than he knows. What an insult.
White folk think just because Blacks still reside in ghettos for the most part it's because we haven't tried to better ourselves, or that the more prosperous we became we still wouldn't prefer to live in our neighborhood and try to make it better.
White suburbia is not an American Dream many of us aspire to. That's how ignorant white folks who support Trump are. His idea of wealth, a glitzy, gold-plated piece of schlock architecture is not our idea of class, more like crass. Trump comes across as the kind of guy who dabbles in Velvet Elvis art and thinks it's classy.
Do you think Blacks who supported President Obama by over 95% have forgotten what he did to our beloved president? Do you think Trump's questioning his birthplace, his educational ability, his college transcripts, alleging he got preference to attend Ivy League institutions, is all forgotten because Trump tells us more lies?
Now he's going to "protect" us poor Black folk from being shot, he's going to get us good jobs, and life will be so much better with a jerk like him as president?
Blacks may not be as well-off and educated as Whites but we're not that stupid to buy his snake oil. For all those who support Trump, I feel more sorry for your ignorance and lack of understanding about Blacks. Trump is just a sign that you just don't get it.
DD
Manhattan
White folk think just because Blacks still reside in ghettos for the most part it's because we haven't tried to better ourselves, or that the more prosperous we became we still wouldn't prefer to live in our neighborhood and try to make it better.
White suburbia is not an American Dream many of us aspire to. That's how ignorant white folks who support Trump are. His idea of wealth, a glitzy, gold-plated piece of schlock architecture is not our idea of class, more like crass. Trump comes across as the kind of guy who dabbles in Velvet Elvis art and thinks it's classy.
Do you think Blacks who supported President Obama by over 95% have forgotten what he did to our beloved president? Do you think Trump's questioning his birthplace, his educational ability, his college transcripts, alleging he got preference to attend Ivy League institutions, is all forgotten because Trump tells us more lies?
Now he's going to "protect" us poor Black folk from being shot, he's going to get us good jobs, and life will be so much better with a jerk like him as president?
Blacks may not be as well-off and educated as Whites but we're not that stupid to buy his snake oil. For all those who support Trump, I feel more sorry for your ignorance and lack of understanding about Blacks. Trump is just a sign that you just don't get it.
DD
Manhattan
19
If these same questions were asked of Bernie supporters, of any age or race, the answers probably would have looked much the same: the system is rigged against the little guy, there is much diminished trust in institutions--be they corporations, political parties, banks, etc. Maybe the immigrants and jobs answers would differ, maybe not by much.
So far the status quo candidate, HRC, has outpolled challenges from the left and right. But is it only do to the flawed nature of the challengers, coupled with clear media favoritism? And how long will that last?
So far the status quo candidate, HRC, has outpolled challenges from the left and right. But is it only do to the flawed nature of the challengers, coupled with clear media favoritism? And how long will that last?
5
Trumps has not "addressed the concerns" of the downwardly mobile; he has not offered one program or idea to help them. He has only spoken in chauvinist racist terms about their plight by assailing immigrants and minorities, and sought to ride the tragedy of their plight to an election victory. This is what demagogues do, and Trump is nothing more than a demagogue.
16
This election will come down to whether Trump or Clinton is the more reviled candidate. While there may be some who are voting FOR a candidate, my sense is that the majority are voting AGAINST the other candidate.
5
I am constantly surprised by the level of anger that exists among people who appear to be doing very, very well. The impression this creates is that these people have little to no understanding about how good their lives are and virtually zero empathy for those who may be less fortunate. This lack of perspective is one of our country's biggest challenges.
13
i'm baffled - if people are dissatisfied with their lifestyle - why don't they CHOOSE to change it?
8
I'm doing great and very concerned about the future of America-- so I'm a part of the demo this article talks about-- but one of my main concerns is that someone like Donald Trump can come this close to the Presidency!
12
No question about it if you look at the faces at Trump rallies. Mostly white, mostly over 40, and majority male. But then you read about one swing state now in the news mostly because of mosquitos and disease. Supposedly a new poll (which may be an outlier) shows 40 percent of Hispanics favoring the demagogue. My point: it's not all white anger/lack of a knowledge base.
I think this Hispanic DT love could be true and not as shocking as some may think. Let's remember several things. Hispanics are diverse and the demonized group (Mexicans) are not universally loved by other Hispanics. Then there is the man himself with his braggadocio, his string of blond and shapely wives, his take no prisoners, never apologize stance. California Hispanics voted in droves for the "Governator" whose actor-celebrity vibe has many similarities. At least among male Hispanics " macho" counts for something, Then add to the mix the stances of Democrats: "gender fluidity", a stand-offish when not hostile stance about religion; a barely concealed disdain for the less well educated. None of that is Hispanic culture friendly. While I hope this new poll is wrong I'd not be surprised if he gets a substantial minority of Hispanics.
I think this Hispanic DT love could be true and not as shocking as some may think. Let's remember several things. Hispanics are diverse and the demonized group (Mexicans) are not universally loved by other Hispanics. Then there is the man himself with his braggadocio, his string of blond and shapely wives, his take no prisoners, never apologize stance. California Hispanics voted in droves for the "Governator" whose actor-celebrity vibe has many similarities. At least among male Hispanics " macho" counts for something, Then add to the mix the stances of Democrats: "gender fluidity", a stand-offish when not hostile stance about religion; a barely concealed disdain for the less well educated. None of that is Hispanic culture friendly. While I hope this new poll is wrong I'd not be surprised if he gets a substantial minority of Hispanics.
1
Trump is a white male who claims to have power over others through his vast wealth. who he denigrates constantly. What more could a Republican seeking their own power want.
To them Hillary is an extension of President Obama who Republicans hate passionately because he is black, a democrat and has done a good job standing up to everything they have thrown at him. Hillary is supported by blacks and Hispanics who they want to keep in their place or kick out of the country. She is a democrat and female. What else does a republican need to hate?
Of course these are extremely shallow stereotypes, but Republicans world and local views are extremely shallow based as they are on black and white racism and ideas.
To them Hillary is an extension of President Obama who Republicans hate passionately because he is black, a democrat and has done a good job standing up to everything they have thrown at him. Hillary is supported by blacks and Hispanics who they want to keep in their place or kick out of the country. She is a democrat and female. What else does a republican need to hate?
Of course these are extremely shallow stereotypes, but Republicans world and local views are extremely shallow based as they are on black and white racism and ideas.
11
This essay makes sense, and I am of the current worried opinion that his populist appeal apparently moderated by a prepared speech is smart & thus better
Because this morning I listened (C-SPAN radio) to enough of the cheering rally in Jackson, Mississippi, including some ominous articulation by BREXIT's leader Nigel Fabri (sp?), and Trump unhappily was effective.
BTW: He actually takes credit for originating "rigged," which is sort of bleak if not corrupt, and even if he did not precede invoking the colorful expression that was of course enbeded in Bernie's folksy pitch.
Because this morning I listened (C-SPAN radio) to enough of the cheering rally in Jackson, Mississippi, including some ominous articulation by BREXIT's leader Nigel Fabri (sp?), and Trump unhappily was effective.
BTW: He actually takes credit for originating "rigged," which is sort of bleak if not corrupt, and even if he did not precede invoking the colorful expression that was of course enbeded in Bernie's folksy pitch.
6
I’m not a fan of Donald Trump, but I believe him when he says the economic system is rigged. How else do you explain the shrinking middle class with wealth being accumulated by a very small percent of the population? Now, that the standard bearer of this message is a billionaire is of course nonsensical, but he is the vessel where those voters are going.
When I hear people talking about the two candidates during my commute to and from work, I never hear anyone say they like Clinton or Trump. What I do hear is people saying I don’t like Trump, but ….. The people who come to these comment sections love to belittle Trump and portray his supporters as uninformed , uneducated, racist white people, but they have no idea how much people across a broad spectrum of the middle class are afraid for their children’s economic futures. Trump is going to garner more of those votes then any pollster is going to pickup in their surveys of the electorate.
The real change we need will not come until 2020 when we get a candidate who can address the real fears of most Americans. It is not Clinton or Trump.
When I hear people talking about the two candidates during my commute to and from work, I never hear anyone say they like Clinton or Trump. What I do hear is people saying I don’t like Trump, but ….. The people who come to these comment sections love to belittle Trump and portray his supporters as uninformed , uneducated, racist white people, but they have no idea how much people across a broad spectrum of the middle class are afraid for their children’s economic futures. Trump is going to garner more of those votes then any pollster is going to pickup in their surveys of the electorate.
The real change we need will not come until 2020 when we get a candidate who can address the real fears of most Americans. It is not Clinton or Trump.
5
Well, the "downwardly mobile" are betting on the wrong horse. Perhaps this is the story of their lives; poor decisions reached through faulty input. Right wing radio hosts as their guides, repeat over and over lies the rest of us reject, but they've found their target audience in the unthinking minority. Fortunately for the country, these people are a minority, and we the voters will not get what they deserve.
9
The poor figure the government will help them. The downwardly mobile are rapidly getting poorer, but not yet quite poor enough to qualify, and are therefore stuck paying to provide the poor-enough with benefits they can not afford to purchase for themselves with their rapidly declining incomes, tapped-out savings, and exhausted credit. They (we) may take cold comfort from the knowledge that when we're finally entirely destitute, we may qualify for those benefits; but when everyone's either that poor or so rich they can afford platoons of tax lawyers to effectively exempt them from all levies, the cupboard will be bare.
This downwardly mobile category comprises not just blue-collar and semiskilled workers, but quite a few former professionals who have been thrust into the 'gig economy' by the outsourcing of the supposedly secure white-collar jobs for which college prepared them. The NYT solons in their sinecures notice us only to sneer at us.
I hate Trump. But he and Sanders, both charlatans, flip sides of the same counterfeit coin, asked many of the right questions, even if their answers are wrong. No great accomplishment; the questions were obvious to most.
The usual smug editorial from the mountaintop has a great deal of other rubbish in it, which 1500 characters is insufficient to address (as usual). But snake oil salesmen do no business where people are healthy. Their fraudulent 'cures' sell only where the pain is real and will swallow anything that purports to help.
This downwardly mobile category comprises not just blue-collar and semiskilled workers, but quite a few former professionals who have been thrust into the 'gig economy' by the outsourcing of the supposedly secure white-collar jobs for which college prepared them. The NYT solons in their sinecures notice us only to sneer at us.
I hate Trump. But he and Sanders, both charlatans, flip sides of the same counterfeit coin, asked many of the right questions, even if their answers are wrong. No great accomplishment; the questions were obvious to most.
The usual smug editorial from the mountaintop has a great deal of other rubbish in it, which 1500 characters is insufficient to address (as usual). But snake oil salesmen do no business where people are healthy. Their fraudulent 'cures' sell only where the pain is real and will swallow anything that purports to help.
2
If lower middle income white people fear the future, maybe they can stop voting for a party that favors tax cuts for rich people while reducing services for ordinary people; that is against unions and raising the minimum wage; and that opposes affordable health care, tuitions and student loans. But I'm sure most of these same people will continue to vote against their own best interests.
17
Is it any wonder that people are seeking a Washington outsider when the wealth distribution is so distorted? The media discusses their disenchantment as though it were imaginary, yet the ststistics support that their share of wealth is continally eroding.
Sadly, these feelings have found a champion in a cartoon of a human. It is horror that Trump might be elected, but no one should forget the valid anger that raised him up.
Hillary is a creature of the beltway. She will fall into the usual pattern of Washington cronyism minutes after being sworn in.
Sadly, these feelings have found a champion in a cartoon of a human. It is horror that Trump might be elected, but no one should forget the valid anger that raised him up.
Hillary is a creature of the beltway. She will fall into the usual pattern of Washington cronyism minutes after being sworn in.
1
I have been floored by the people who support Trump. For a lot of supporters, I believe it was the "celebrity" factor or that they just would never vote for a Clinton. I know well educated white women, who often are sitting in the front row of their church - that are rabid supporters of Trump. Mind boggling.....
15
In "addressing so directly" the concerns of the downwardly mobile working-class whites, Trump has from the very beginning of his campaign only offered them one thing: RACISM. Racism as the cause and the solution. He baits, panders, suggests, blames, lies etc. out a message that has nothing behind it except racism. He has offered nothing specific in his policies that would in any way help the people he is so "concerned" about. He went to Mississippi yesterday to assure 'his' people that his recent pandering was only to address low poll numbers saying 'Don't be concerned I am not flip flopping I am still with you my
little white friends'.
What IS the new agenda of the 2 billionaires? Trump and Mr. Mercer? And how does the Alt Right/Brietbart/Bannon figure into this new campaign? Nothing suggests that this triumvirate is even remotely concern with the downwardly mobile other than being able to goad their anger and hate.
As Trump raises the rent of his office space to gouge the RNC, we see what is and has always been there, a very selfish and manipulative con man.
little white friends'.
What IS the new agenda of the 2 billionaires? Trump and Mr. Mercer? And how does the Alt Right/Brietbart/Bannon figure into this new campaign? Nothing suggests that this triumvirate is even remotely concern with the downwardly mobile other than being able to goad their anger and hate.
As Trump raises the rent of his office space to gouge the RNC, we see what is and has always been there, a very selfish and manipulative con man.
8
I really like the explanation that George Lakoff gives for the divide between liberals and conservatives. It seems to ring true in my experience where conservatives interpret the world from the strong father vs. nurturing parent.
http://www.salon.com/2014/11/22/this_is_why_conservatives_win_george_lak...
http://www.salon.com/2014/11/22/this_is_why_conservatives_win_george_lak...
I prefer the old adage: Conservatives love individuals but could care less for humanity; while Liberals love humanity but could care less for individuals.
6
I am fed up with constantly hearing about "college educated" as it were a measure of person's knowledge and success. The myth of 'college educated" has been perpetuated on us by the college industry but it does not reflect knowledge or preparation for productive life. Of course, exception are those college graduates who acquired useful, practical and sought after profession guaranteeing them self support. However this is not true for the majorities with degrees in 101 philosophy, English (and who cannot even spell) or political science 101. I got my high school education in Europe and it was equivalent to at least two years of American four year college! From there I went to 6 year medical school which was practically free. The first step in improving the lot of the millions of young people in this country is to improve the high school education and make it available to all.
4
True. Just look at some of the vacuous blather that comes out of some of the NY Times columnists and Editorial Board. And they're Ivy League at that.
4
When you limit the definition of education to that which brings a "practical
and sought after profession guaranteeing them self support," you lost me Stefan, of Boston. I never my reading of literature and philosophy and history to bring me money; I only wanted to be as happy as I could be. My education works.
and sought after profession guaranteeing them self support," you lost me Stefan, of Boston. I never my reading of literature and philosophy and history to bring me money; I only wanted to be as happy as I could be. My education works.
3
Trump has perfected the 40-year Republican campaign to solidify the middle class white vote through fear of "others:" pick any convenient target group to exclude by race, ethnicity, sexual identity, geography, gun control preferences, or even political affiliation, and invoke the America of Old as the last defense against the 250-year inevitable march toward plurality and inclusion. And who's the next "group" to be singled out for exclusion to make the Red-state old white men feel safe?
7
I don't understand a lot of the Hillbots on this issue. Yes, Trump is a blight upon this nation. Yes, there are a lot of people who would rather lash out a the system rather than put any effort at fixing it. Yes, there is an incredible amout of fear, ignorance, vitriol, and racism coming from the man and his supporters.
But that doesn't change the fact that we live in an America that has a middle class which is being preyed upon by the wealthy. Big Pharma is running amock raising prices on perscription drugs. Insurance companies are fleeing Obamacare . Tuition costs more than a first home. Students are more concerned with protecting their own biases than challenging them with free speech and free thought the casualty. Extremist attacks are on the rise everwhere. We have a prison and policing system that has betrayed an entire generation of our citizens. The middle class hasn't seen a pay increase in a decade.
Even if you accept that people fleeing terrible situations in latin America have a legitimate right to be here as refugees, and that people coming here to build a better life for their children deserve to do so, our border is still so inneffectual, and our immegration laws so lax that they might as well not exist in the first place.
So I don't blame Trump supporters for their misplaced anger. But I also have serious doubts that, "I'm in the pocket of Corporate America" Hillary has the will or the freedom to fix things.
But that doesn't change the fact that we live in an America that has a middle class which is being preyed upon by the wealthy. Big Pharma is running amock raising prices on perscription drugs. Insurance companies are fleeing Obamacare . Tuition costs more than a first home. Students are more concerned with protecting their own biases than challenging them with free speech and free thought the casualty. Extremist attacks are on the rise everwhere. We have a prison and policing system that has betrayed an entire generation of our citizens. The middle class hasn't seen a pay increase in a decade.
Even if you accept that people fleeing terrible situations in latin America have a legitimate right to be here as refugees, and that people coming here to build a better life for their children deserve to do so, our border is still so inneffectual, and our immegration laws so lax that they might as well not exist in the first place.
So I don't blame Trump supporters for their misplaced anger. But I also have serious doubts that, "I'm in the pocket of Corporate America" Hillary has the will or the freedom to fix things.
8
I hear a lot of justification from angry Trump supporters I know that they don't agree with many things he says or particularly like him as a person but that he will shake up a broken system.
But when was the last time shaking something broken really fixed it?
That for me is the image of a Trump voter: someone cursing and angrily shaking their computer because it stopped working.
Anger makes people stupid. Or is it stupid people get angry? Either way, Trump supporters are a lot of angry, stupid people, because he offers nothing that hasn't failed to deliver for ordinary people time and time again.
But when was the last time shaking something broken really fixed it?
That for me is the image of a Trump voter: someone cursing and angrily shaking their computer because it stopped working.
Anger makes people stupid. Or is it stupid people get angry? Either way, Trump supporters are a lot of angry, stupid people, because he offers nothing that hasn't failed to deliver for ordinary people time and time again.
7
These poll-iticians who make a science of the effects of relentless anger masquerading as news are not doing democracy any favors. We need more education for voters and as boring as that sounds, it is the only thing that can bring us away from the money-power over people approach to government. The New York Times and other journalists must continue to write reports focus on the real qualifications of the candidates and the actual policy solutions they stand for. Deliver us from the headlines on polls and staged rallies and ask what makes this carnival barker qualified to lead a complex organism that must serve the needs of 324 million citizens. The normalization of this man may be one of the biggest mistakes in the history of journalism and with every student who tells an immigrant that they are "coming for you" we will all suffer the consequences beyond November.
2
I fall squarely into the demographic (old white man) who should be supporting Trump but I'm not. Maybe it's because I'm not afraid to be a minority someday. I embrace the Asian, Native American and Latin cultures where I live. They are vibrant and attractive. When I visited our local mosque I was welcomed with open arms and a spicy breakfast. My kids are educated, work hard in their chosen professions and are optimistic about their futures. We do not live in fear. Go away Donald Trump. Go be a media mogul or something better suited to your considerable talents than President of a changing USA.
11
Thank you. Knowing people like you are out there really made my day.
I am considered downward mobile by defination. Yet I am not mad about my position in society. I feel that I could never vote or campaign for Truump. My reason is he using his supporters need to have someone to represent their pain. Trump is using those at his rallies for only his selfish grandiose ego. He wouldn't be seen in public with someone like myself.
11
I think there are simpler reasons that Trump is popular among some white voters: racism and misogynism pure and simple. Any person who looks different than they do and who has a job and works hard is a threat to them. Trump began his rise as a birther and a misogynist and he remains a birther and a misogynist. Why do the chattering classes keep tying themselves in knots trying to run from the obvious?
9
I don't think any psycho-analyzing the Trump supporter is productive if nothing is done or actionable. It only becomes patronizing. Much of what ails the country stems from local and state governments. Neither Mr Trump nor Secretary Clinton can change that significantly. This limitation of power is by design in our federal system. This type of a conversation is self-edifying but does very little in the real world.
2
I would be interested to know the effect that conservative media has had in shaping the opinions of people who make it their primary source of information. Perhaps that would help to explain the disconnect that often seems to exist between the not-so-dire standard of living of Trump supporters and their extreme pessimism and resentfulness.
After all, the business model of conservative politics has been to stoke fear and anger among their base voters -- exemplified by working class people without college degrees -- and then use that anger to enact an economic agenda that only helps the wealthy. Given the tremendous influence of conservative media like Fox News on our political discourse, I can't help but wonder if the disaffection of many Trump supporters is as much or more a product of these media force-feeding their viewers a jaundiced, distorted world view that leads them to believe that things are worse than they really are. And that non-Whites are somehow to blame.
After all, the business model of conservative politics has been to stoke fear and anger among their base voters -- exemplified by working class people without college degrees -- and then use that anger to enact an economic agenda that only helps the wealthy. Given the tremendous influence of conservative media like Fox News on our political discourse, I can't help but wonder if the disaffection of many Trump supporters is as much or more a product of these media force-feeding their viewers a jaundiced, distorted world view that leads them to believe that things are worse than they really are. And that non-Whites are somehow to blame.
6
Selling Trump supporters issues short is a recipe for future disaster. In all likelihood Trump will not be elected in 2016. The real concerns of those who see him as the only "not politically correct" candidate who is not a member of the ruling class ( being rich doesn't make him a member of the ruling class, I suspect they got it right) won't go away. What happens if a cunning politican who really wants to be president takes up their cause-or pretends to. They see both the Republicans and the Democrats as owned by the ruling class. Clinton's speaking fees feed this perception.
4
Agree with your comments. The R's are clearly only interested in promoting their 1% masters but the Democrats have done little to address the legitimate concerns of those they see "clinging to their guns and religion". The R's have convinced them that the R's actually are interested in them and they have responded to Trump upon realizing they have conned all these years. Trump of course is a bigger con and they will experience even more disappointment if he is elected. We can only hope Hillary is elected and Democrats wake up and acknowledge their legitimate concerns.
3
DCN - Democrats are trying to get the minimum wage passed, trying to make health care more accessible and affordable, trying to make education more affordable. What else other than talking about these efforts a bit more, should they be doing?
1
I think it's kind of insulting to refer to a large group of Americans being victimized by corporate "free trade" and other factors completely beyond their control and whose concerns are largely ignored by both parties as they curry favor with the rich as "downwardly mobile." How about simply calling them the "Victims."
2
And who, pray tell, has been busy stoking these fires of discontent, pessimism and despair? Why it's be the very GOP that now looks on -- aghast and appalled -- that their party has been shanghaied by a demagogue offering absurd solutions to all their problems.
8
In the last 30 years, real median household income went up until the late 1990s, and has been falling ever since. It fell particularly hard after the Great Recession, and, unlike previous recessions, has not really come close to bouncing back. As misdirected as the response is, this is not an imagined problem among a small subset of less-educated whites. Most people are worse or no better off now than they were 25 years ago; and there are not many times in the last 200 when we could say that. And policy has done precious little to deliver much to do more than hasten the process: more crumblilng infrastructure, lower long-term growth, a top 20% (nay 1%) racing away from the bottom 80% (or 99%).
We know that Americans tend to OVERestimate their prospects for class mobility, as Cherlin points out (call it the American delusion). Shouldn't we be asking whether we will (do) see this outrage among other downwardly mobile ethnic groups? Some of what Ms. Clinton proposes may help, but congressional Republicans do not seem poised to help, or to think of Trump as an argument for re-thinking the policies that have failed for 30 years.
Readers of the NYTImes, including me, almost certainly overrepresent the the old-style narrow version of the middle class: somewhere between centiles 80 and 99, a bit resentful of the 1%, and imagining that our fate cold easily be the fate of the rest bottom 80, but for subsidized child care and an expansion of the earned income tax credit.
We know that Americans tend to OVERestimate their prospects for class mobility, as Cherlin points out (call it the American delusion). Shouldn't we be asking whether we will (do) see this outrage among other downwardly mobile ethnic groups? Some of what Ms. Clinton proposes may help, but congressional Republicans do not seem poised to help, or to think of Trump as an argument for re-thinking the policies that have failed for 30 years.
Readers of the NYTImes, including me, almost certainly overrepresent the the old-style narrow version of the middle class: somewhere between centiles 80 and 99, a bit resentful of the 1%, and imagining that our fate cold easily be the fate of the rest bottom 80, but for subsidized child care and an expansion of the earned income tax credit.
4
I have this nightmare vision of Trump being inaugurated, will Melania wearing a gold tiara.
Yet, after the first 100 days, Melania will be sent to the used car lot, while another takes her place.
After the first year, the angry pitch fork crowd will be after him, with visions of Mussolini in their heads.
All to the delight of Putin, who's a con conning a con.
Yet, after the first 100 days, Melania will be sent to the used car lot, while another takes her place.
After the first year, the angry pitch fork crowd will be after him, with visions of Mussolini in their heads.
All to the delight of Putin, who's a con conning a con.
5
In order to restore these voters' faith in progress, a leader would need to understand how the downwardly mobile became that way. What choices and elements of chance have limited their lives? It's unlikely that, apart from their resounding unity over Trump's message, they are coherent enough as a group to have their needs addressed through policy or ideology.
5
These distressed individuals fail to see just who is responsible for an environment where "the system is rigged against our citizens".
The political class has fostered this environment by genuflecting to the wealthy, but it is those very like Mr. Trump who've pushed to have those tax cuts, regulations and byzantine laws that perpetuate a flow of wealth upwards. And unlike some of his monied colleagues, he fails even in attempts towards mitigating a skewed system. His "charitable" giving is laughable and he must often be legally compelled to make amends when transgressing an already lopsided framework-- unpaid bills to small businesses and nondiscriminatory housing, for example.
What is the genesis of this magical thinking on the part of some that he will suddenly become other than what he's been for 70 years?
The political class has fostered this environment by genuflecting to the wealthy, but it is those very like Mr. Trump who've pushed to have those tax cuts, regulations and byzantine laws that perpetuate a flow of wealth upwards. And unlike some of his monied colleagues, he fails even in attempts towards mitigating a skewed system. His "charitable" giving is laughable and he must often be legally compelled to make amends when transgressing an already lopsided framework-- unpaid bills to small businesses and nondiscriminatory housing, for example.
What is the genesis of this magical thinking on the part of some that he will suddenly become other than what he's been for 70 years?
7
Downward whites should be in unions and voting democrat. Decades of political marketing has fooled them into voting against their best interests.
The southern strategy has been particularly effective. These whites think that voting by racial block or by social causes like abortion or gun rights is effective. It isn't. They should follow the money and realize they're helping their tormentors
The southern strategy has been particularly effective. These whites think that voting by racial block or by social causes like abortion or gun rights is effective. It isn't. They should follow the money and realize they're helping their tormentors
20
And meanwhile Hillary is popular with the upwardly mobile who are so confident of the future they can picture themselves one day at a $50,000 per plate fundraising dinner for her (or when Chelsea runs) where they too can shmooze with the glitterati and movie stars -- not to mention plunking down a cool mil to her foundation in return for ... fill in the blank.
7
As a child of the 80s and 90s, and now 30-something employed professional am I jealous of what my baby boomer corporate warrior parents achieved? Yes. Am I making the same kind of living they did when they were my age? Yes, to a degree (majorly adjusted for cost of living increases, across the board).
But it's not just financial, but in attitude and norms—our middle-class suburban neighborhood (40 miles from an urban center) was an outwardly social, upwardly mobile environment of summer barbecues and neighborhood winter pond hockey, the adults had fun and the kids had fun; our dads took business trips and brought back gifts from golf courses where they'd entertained clients; our moms worked corporate, or dropped out and raised us—that made the corporate-centric boomer generation lifestyle something to be emulated.
All of that has changed and become harder, to a certain degree. But, as my college dropout dad always says: to not find your way and make a life that makes you happy to live, is a life lived in excuses. There are no excuses. But, despite things seeming harder, I will not cast a vote for a demagogue with no understanding of the process of governing.
Perhaps the downwardly mobile should focus where their elected enemy "establishment" leaders focus: the local elections. No opportunities? Go to your town halls and write your Congressmen to tell them you want EDUCATION brought back to your towns. There lies opportunity. Complaining and blaming others is disingenuous.
But it's not just financial, but in attitude and norms—our middle-class suburban neighborhood (40 miles from an urban center) was an outwardly social, upwardly mobile environment of summer barbecues and neighborhood winter pond hockey, the adults had fun and the kids had fun; our dads took business trips and brought back gifts from golf courses where they'd entertained clients; our moms worked corporate, or dropped out and raised us—that made the corporate-centric boomer generation lifestyle something to be emulated.
All of that has changed and become harder, to a certain degree. But, as my college dropout dad always says: to not find your way and make a life that makes you happy to live, is a life lived in excuses. There are no excuses. But, despite things seeming harder, I will not cast a vote for a demagogue with no understanding of the process of governing.
Perhaps the downwardly mobile should focus where their elected enemy "establishment" leaders focus: the local elections. No opportunities? Go to your town halls and write your Congressmen to tell them you want EDUCATION brought back to your towns. There lies opportunity. Complaining and blaming others is disingenuous.
12
Gimme a break! This is a bunch of malarkey! Recent studies have shown a lot of Trump supporters are not really that poor. Uneducated, yed, but certainly, a majority of them are not in dire economic crises. They live in predominantly white-only neighborhood, so their world view of immigrants and minorities is that they're poor, uneducated, rapists, drug dealers, and they're gonna "take 'Murica away from us (whites)!". That's what they've been fed with for the last 8 yrs by the GOP, and Trump is the result of their ignorance. They're worried about the diversification of America (normal people call that, being racist!).
11
They been fed and believed the R nonsense for much longer than eight years - think starting with St. Reagan. They support Trump because they now realize the R's are never going to deliver.
5
I know several well-off people voting for Trump simply because they know he'll cut their taxes. Which will mean big cuts in spending on roads and schools and research and federal jobs and many other services that directly benefit the downwardly mobile who argue so strongly that Trump is in their corner.
I guess it's true: there's a sucker born every minute. I just wonder why they seem to be concentrated in certain states.
I guess it's true: there's a sucker born every minute. I just wonder why they seem to be concentrated in certain states.
15
Great emphasis in this election has been placed by journalists and commentators on those without college degrees. As more and more people have completed four yrs. of college or more, we have inadvertently created a new class of citizens in America, those with out degrees and blocked from higher pay. The degree, useful at work or not, has become the required ticket of admission.
There are many people who are very successful financially without an undergrad degree. No, I don't mean the rare exceptions, like Bill Gates or the late Steve Jobs. People who start their own businesses and succeed represent one group, but there are many who go into skilled trades and happily take home 100 to 200K per yr. or more.
The other side is when a qualified person (by experience, demonstrated capacities, etc.) is held back by the lack of a degree. This was not always the case. In the field of journalism, an other fields, there have been many highly successful people who either didn't go to college or went only briefly. The late Peter Jennings and Walter Cronkite were outstanding examples, but there have been many more. Now, reporters in Washington, DC, rather commonly have master's degrees.
Employers have discovered they can deny pay raises to those without degrees, not because of performance, but just because they lack the certificate. Those locked out of the knowledge economy, and fear their kids can't get in either, often see dark clouds ahead. Are we surprised they are unhappy about it?
There are many people who are very successful financially without an undergrad degree. No, I don't mean the rare exceptions, like Bill Gates or the late Steve Jobs. People who start their own businesses and succeed represent one group, but there are many who go into skilled trades and happily take home 100 to 200K per yr. or more.
The other side is when a qualified person (by experience, demonstrated capacities, etc.) is held back by the lack of a degree. This was not always the case. In the field of journalism, an other fields, there have been many highly successful people who either didn't go to college or went only briefly. The late Peter Jennings and Walter Cronkite were outstanding examples, but there have been many more. Now, reporters in Washington, DC, rather commonly have master's degrees.
Employers have discovered they can deny pay raises to those without degrees, not because of performance, but just because they lack the certificate. Those locked out of the knowledge economy, and fear their kids can't get in either, often see dark clouds ahead. Are we surprised they are unhappy about it?
3
In an article in our local paper this morning regarding Obamacare and whether it was sustainable, three people who now had insurance they hadn't had before were interviewed. One man, middle-aged and in a wheel chair had lost everything after his accident, job, house wife, because he hadn't had insurance. Now, thanks to Obamacare he has insurance and has just gotten SS disability. His politics? He's voting for Trump because he doesn't believe in government "handouts" but he didn't turn down the insurance subsidy and the disability payments. Thoughtlessness? Hypocrisy? Stupidity? Or all three?
11
I think the common thread here is entitlement. Trump supporters feel entitled to a better life, not thru fair competition with others, but because of the color of their parent's skin. And Trump is telling them he will put things right again, using the tools of state-sanctioned bigotry.
12
The issue that bothers me the most is this: we are all Americans. Your readers look down on the 42% of Americans who will vote for Trump as poor, ignorant whites. However, when the elections is over, this 42% will still be angry, with no jobs and no hope. If you believe this 42% is simply going to go away and be happy with Hillary, you are sadly mistaken. Our government is not working, and it will not be working with Hillary. Until the press and our leaders provide some ideas, this will simply be a downward spiral to heroin addiction and eventual revolt.
2
Trump has tapped into economic anxiety among many levels of income and education, especially among whites who see their power waning. I get that but I am completely mystified by what exactly they think he'll do for them. He has a record of paying himself first and to heck with everybody else. He's playing them like a virtuoso and they are following the music as he leads them over a cliff.
9
Doing fine but worried. Khrushchev has buried these worriers who want Soviet style birth to grave securities but spend their income buying foreign made goods and blaming the result on Hillary even though their leader does the same thing.
5
As we saw time and time again, Trump said whatever he thought he needed to say to whatever audience he had during primary season in order to win the Republican primary. Build a wall, stop immigration, ban Muslims, ....whatever.
Now that he won the primary, as we are seeing in real time, Trump is now saying whatever he thinks he needs to say to whatever audience he has during this ongoing general election season, in order to win the Presidential ticket. Don't build a wall, encourage immigration, welcome Muslims, ....whatever.
If by chance Trump wins the Presidency, Trump will flip flop along, year after year, finger to the wind, on each and every issue that drops on his desk.
The only standard Trump lives by is: say whatever you think you need to say in order to get what you want. Trump has zero fixed principles. There is nothing - no fundamental truths, no foundation of beliefs - on which he stands firmly, resolutely, and without question. Trump has no moral compass and no character, and is incapable of rational thought and analysis.
While millions of Americans will vote for Trump, many more millions of Americans will vote for Hillary. And it is very, very unfortunate that Republicans could not see through the Trump blather and vote for John Kasich during primary season.
Imagine how much fun it would have been to have respectful, knowledgeable, serious debate between Kasich and Clinton on foreign policy, national debt, economic policies, immigration....
Now that he won the primary, as we are seeing in real time, Trump is now saying whatever he thinks he needs to say to whatever audience he has during this ongoing general election season, in order to win the Presidential ticket. Don't build a wall, encourage immigration, welcome Muslims, ....whatever.
If by chance Trump wins the Presidency, Trump will flip flop along, year after year, finger to the wind, on each and every issue that drops on his desk.
The only standard Trump lives by is: say whatever you think you need to say in order to get what you want. Trump has zero fixed principles. There is nothing - no fundamental truths, no foundation of beliefs - on which he stands firmly, resolutely, and without question. Trump has no moral compass and no character, and is incapable of rational thought and analysis.
While millions of Americans will vote for Trump, many more millions of Americans will vote for Hillary. And it is very, very unfortunate that Republicans could not see through the Trump blather and vote for John Kasich during primary season.
Imagine how much fun it would have been to have respectful, knowledgeable, serious debate between Kasich and Clinton on foreign policy, national debt, economic policies, immigration....
1
Do the jobs Trump bemoans as having been outsourced to foreign soil include Chinese tie factories, or Mexican suit manufacturing plants, or Bangladeshi shirt companies? It's not just about the tax advantages, it's about the mind-bogglingly cheap, and inhumane, labor. Are these the types of jobs he's saying he'll bring back in his new con pitch to African Americans and Latinos? His charge that Democrats have forsaken those demographics, that they view them merely as votes, not humans, is asinine. "The policies of Obama and Clinton" are to blame for the "plight" of minorities he so brazenly and erroneously depicts with hyperbole. Congress defeated or permanently delayed more than five hundred Obama initiatives, many of them economic (like The American Jobs Act, or the appropriations request for massive infrastructure rebuilding, to name two). Did we forget "The Party of No?" Did we forget the intransigent, obnoxious, and unwavering stance of Mitch McConnell or the Cantor-Boehner-Ryan succession? Just say NO? It's not the policies of Obama/Clinton, it's the dedicated, fanatical obstructionism of a super-partisan Congress.
11
It's true that I'm not doing as well as my parents, but it's also true that the sellout of America to corporations is the main reason for this. Since Trump is basically a corporation, I don't see him as a solution.
16
I am a Green Party member and voter and certainly do not support Donald Trump, yet no one could be more disappointed in American "democracy" than I am. There are many truly progressive voters who are disgusted with both of our "choices" in this presidential election.
4
Why is it irrational for people whose status is declining to vote for a candidate who promises to change that?
3
It is irrational because the promise to "fix everything" is pure malarkey. There is no plan, and no way to do most of the preposterous promises.
10
An extension of this research would be a survey of the downwardly mobile sector about what jobs they think they are qualified for that the immigrants are taking away from them. And, which of these jobs are willing to take? And which of these jobs are they seeking additional education or training for?
7
As a builder, I see mostly nice, hardworking illegal immigrants taking jobs away from US citizens (entry level that used to lead to promotion) in the home construction industry in New Jersey. The owner or foreman is a citizen or here legally and speaks English. Most of the work crew are illegal, poorly educated Spanish only speakers and primarily friends and relatives. The jobs are not advertised outside of text messaging applications all done in Spanish. You will never hear about them unless you are from the same country and speak Spanish. The training is all on the job with informal apprenticeship programs. Much of their earnings are sent out of the county to wife or mother which does not help our local economy.
4
Trump appears to have two distinct broad categories of supporters. The "downwardly mobile" who probably relish the thought of dragging the "upwardly mobile" down to their level; and the well to do, who will support Trump because GOP tax and economic policies will enrich them and they don't really care if having a lunatic president will harm the not so well to do. The point being that appealing to the economic self interest of the downwardly mobile Trump supporters or the civic mindedness and better angels of his the well off supporters may be fools' errands.
9
Could it be that downwardly mobile folks tend more to blame other institutions and individuals for their distress rather than taking personal responsibility for what they perceive to be their deteriorating conditions? It's not as simple as this, I understand, but people who light their own fires, even in the face of obstacles, have always seemed sunnier about their worlds to me.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
6
It's a shame (what a weak word to describe this phenomenon) that people in need are offered Trump as their representative. We need not belittle people's dissatisfaction to note that they are wrong to think that Trump will make any kind of difference. He is incompetent to be President and is a danger to us all.
11
I would not say that Mr Trump is "addressing the concerns of downwardly mobile" people so much as he is using them. Tax cuts for the rich, the Emperor's New Wall, and all the concentration camps needed to round up and deport eleven million people are not going to put any money in the pockets of Mr Trump's supporters.
9
If I , a very well off naturalized citizen of the US, were asked how proud I am of the way democracy worked in America, I would answer not proud at all.
How can anyone be proud that the still richest country in the world has the highest in-equality of all advanced nations in the world; a school system that lacks far behind those of others; has no universal healthcare for all at less than half the cost as other nations, and better outcomes to boot; spends - thanks to Citizens United - money that equals the GDP of a small country on elections; has a gun culture that kills over 30 thousand per annum; is the only advanced nation that still has the death penalty. etc. etc. etc....
How can anyone be proud that the still richest country in the world has the highest in-equality of all advanced nations in the world; a school system that lacks far behind those of others; has no universal healthcare for all at less than half the cost as other nations, and better outcomes to boot; spends - thanks to Citizens United - money that equals the GDP of a small country on elections; has a gun culture that kills over 30 thousand per annum; is the only advanced nation that still has the death penalty. etc. etc. etc....
6
You're not proud?
How about if we build you a wall!! USA!
The choice in this election becomes ever more obvious.
How about if we build you a wall!! USA!
The choice in this election becomes ever more obvious.
3
R
A wall does not address any of the issues that David Gustafson raises, but you must have ignored all of that once you read "not proud."
David makes the point that we sure are EXCEPTIONAL. We kill over 30,000 of our fellow citizens with guns. No other civilized country in the world even comes close to us. Great, isn't it? I guess Donald Trump thinks we are not yet great, because he suggests we need a lot more guns, so we can shoot a lot more people every year. Yep, that sure will Make America Great Again, right?
A wall does not address any of the issues that David Gustafson raises, but you must have ignored all of that once you read "not proud."
David makes the point that we sure are EXCEPTIONAL. We kill over 30,000 of our fellow citizens with guns. No other civilized country in the world even comes close to us. Great, isn't it? I guess Donald Trump thinks we are not yet great, because he suggests we need a lot more guns, so we can shoot a lot more people every year. Yep, that sure will Make America Great Again, right?
5
"No other candidate in this race has addressed the concerns of downwardly mobile working-class whites so directly." WRONG. Mr. Cherlin, are you at all familiar with the name Bernie Sanders?
9
Trump doesn't say, and his fans don't ask, what the future will look like after he's been president. What will be the benefit of deporting illegal immigrants? What difference will that really make to anyone's life? How many jobs will be created, and who will have those new jobs, when the trade deals are struck down? How will harassing Muslims out of the country have any impact on the lives of Americans? How will Trump transform the Black neighborhoods he disparages as hopeless? Where will the improved housing be, who will pay for it, what changes does he want to see in inner city schools? What does he plan to do about the millions of homeless people living on the streets of America? How will families be changed by the child care his daughter promises?
No one asks him any questions of substance. No one expects anything of him. His fans just want him to rant, but don't care if they actually see any benefit to their lives from his policies. They don't ask him how he intends to deal with a hostile Congress, how he will navigate in the unfamiliar atmosphere of politics in DC. No one really tries to press him to give specifics.
If he aims to be our president, shouldn't we be showing even the smallest amount of interest in how our lives might be better in four years? Trump asks, "What have you got to lose by voting for me?" Why do Trump supporters accept that as any kind of assurance that their lives might be improved by his presidency?
No one asks him any questions of substance. No one expects anything of him. His fans just want him to rant, but don't care if they actually see any benefit to their lives from his policies. They don't ask him how he intends to deal with a hostile Congress, how he will navigate in the unfamiliar atmosphere of politics in DC. No one really tries to press him to give specifics.
If he aims to be our president, shouldn't we be showing even the smallest amount of interest in how our lives might be better in four years? Trump asks, "What have you got to lose by voting for me?" Why do Trump supporters accept that as any kind of assurance that their lives might be improved by his presidency?
9
The research supported here supports the observation that Trump is supported by America's "losers":
1. Who are desperately seeking scapegoats to blame for their own failures and disappointments; and
2. Who crave a strong man "Big Brother" to relieve them of further responsibility for mismanaging their own lives.
The election in November will reveal how many "middle class" American voters have realized they are too weak to successfully compete in a capitalist republic without the unfair advantages of racialist policies.
1. Who are desperately seeking scapegoats to blame for their own failures and disappointments; and
2. Who crave a strong man "Big Brother" to relieve them of further responsibility for mismanaging their own lives.
The election in November will reveal how many "middle class" American voters have realized they are too weak to successfully compete in a capitalist republic without the unfair advantages of racialist policies.
6
I will probably vote for G. Johnson because the other two (or three, if you like) are just non-starters for me, although, I like him less each time I hear him speak. Maybe I won't vote.
I often inquire why someone supports a candidate. It's an admittedly small sample, but the people I've talked to who support Trump, almost all white middle to upper economic class employed people, recognize his character flaws, although all of them believe he is smart (I can't imagine how, but . . .) What they almost universally care about is that they see him, rightly or wrongly, as the strongest potential bulwark against liberalism and way to regain ground from Obama's policies. For one thing, a position he probably will not change is nominating conservative judges. In fact, if Clinton said tom., I will nominate justices only one Trump's list (and, I'm sure if you asked him, he would not know their names), she would win this election in a great landslide.
They don't actually use those exact words - I'm paraphrasing - but in my opinion that is what it comes down to. Frankly, though I thought Pres. Obama and Bush were both disasters, my remedy would not be electing a politically ignorant, arrogant, insulting, insecure baby, and I think they will be very disappointed as he has no integrity and does whatever he sees as expedient. Nor that I am endorsing Clinton, who is irrevocably tied to liberal policies and whose character flaws are also legion.
I often inquire why someone supports a candidate. It's an admittedly small sample, but the people I've talked to who support Trump, almost all white middle to upper economic class employed people, recognize his character flaws, although all of them believe he is smart (I can't imagine how, but . . .) What they almost universally care about is that they see him, rightly or wrongly, as the strongest potential bulwark against liberalism and way to regain ground from Obama's policies. For one thing, a position he probably will not change is nominating conservative judges. In fact, if Clinton said tom., I will nominate justices only one Trump's list (and, I'm sure if you asked him, he would not know their names), she would win this election in a great landslide.
They don't actually use those exact words - I'm paraphrasing - but in my opinion that is what it comes down to. Frankly, though I thought Pres. Obama and Bush were both disasters, my remedy would not be electing a politically ignorant, arrogant, insulting, insecure baby, and I think they will be very disappointed as he has no integrity and does whatever he sees as expedient. Nor that I am endorsing Clinton, who is irrevocably tied to liberal policies and whose character flaws are also legion.
1
Among white women aged 35-59, the national mortality has increased 23%.
Among white men in the same age group, the mortality rate has increased 16%.
For black women in this age group, the mortality rate has gone down 10%. For black men, it's gone down 20%. For Hispanic women it's gone down 11%. And for Hispanic men, it's gone down 16%.
When the Washington Post studied the population and mortality of one small county in Kentucky, they found that the mortality rate for white women 35-59 had gone up 75% in the last 15 years.
This is about more than downward mobility. The tragedy is that only Trump appears to be reaching this group with a message they think they can believe in.
Link to WP story:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/life-lessons-from-a-small-town-u...
Among white men in the same age group, the mortality rate has increased 16%.
For black women in this age group, the mortality rate has gone down 10%. For black men, it's gone down 20%. For Hispanic women it's gone down 11%. And for Hispanic men, it's gone down 16%.
When the Washington Post studied the population and mortality of one small county in Kentucky, they found that the mortality rate for white women 35-59 had gone up 75% in the last 15 years.
This is about more than downward mobility. The tragedy is that only Trump appears to be reaching this group with a message they think they can believe in.
Link to WP story:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/life-lessons-from-a-small-town-u...
4
Well, sure. If you're downwardly mobile, you can't expect to cough up the bucks for a $25,000 per plate fundraiser or donate a cool $1 mill plus to a private foundation for favors. And if you are white and demonstrate for your rights, you are considered a racist right-wing extremist; while if you are a minority group, it will be automatically assumed there are legitimate grievances that must be addressed.
3
The numbers you cite are incorrect. Mortality has increased across all age bands you mention. White women age 35-39 have seen an increase in life expectancy. It's certain subsets of these women that have experienced a decrease. Most notably those without a high school education.
4
Bill--I got those numbers from the Washington Post story. You need to write to them to tell them they got the numbers wrong.
2
I'm no longer curious about how many stories or opinions about Trump, Trump supporters, Trump advisors, Trump strategy, Trump psychology, etc the NYT can churn out.
Can the NYT actually stick to the policies when discussing the candidates? And without the exceptional bile that underlies every Trump article? Or the excessive fawning that accompanies every Hillary article?
What about the alternative candidates? What about the issues of all of them? What about the fact that Hillary has not had a real news conference in nearly a year? What about giving some space and analyzing the alternative candidates?
And finally, the "disaffected downwardly mobile" is now a new name by a writer for the NYT for those who want CHANGE. The change and hope we didn't get with Obama. Stop trying to make it seem like anything else.
Can the NYT actually stick to the policies when discussing the candidates? And without the exceptional bile that underlies every Trump article? Or the excessive fawning that accompanies every Hillary article?
What about the alternative candidates? What about the issues of all of them? What about the fact that Hillary has not had a real news conference in nearly a year? What about giving some space and analyzing the alternative candidates?
And finally, the "disaffected downwardly mobile" is now a new name by a writer for the NYT for those who want CHANGE. The change and hope we didn't get with Obama. Stop trying to make it seem like anything else.
6
Obama did his best to roll out a visionary health care platform for all Americans.
You know why you didn't get it? Republican obstructionism.
You know why your education is suffering? Republican obstructionism.
You know why your government isn't working for you? Republican obstructionism.
The party of Lincoln has been highjacked by extremists.
Good luck with your vote.
You know why you didn't get it? Republican obstructionism.
You know why your education is suffering? Republican obstructionism.
You know why your government isn't working for you? Republican obstructionism.
The party of Lincoln has been highjacked by extremists.
Good luck with your vote.
11
True, but Obama forgot the old truism: "A camel is a horse designed by a committee."
2
The most interesting and important finding of Rothwell's paper is that Trump supporters tend to live in areas of the country where they have little contact with blacks and immigrants. Their emotional responses to issues of crime and terrorism are colored by ignorance. The economic factors alluded to in the article are a red herring. Anyone with sense who is concerned about downward mobility and the improvement of his economic prospects will vote for Clinton.
12
Trump is exploiting people who are afraid, confused & misinformed. That's nothing new in American politics. In times of economic or social upheaval Americans have turned to people like Trump before. The blame, however, is not all theirs.
It is well known that the opinion & the aggregate preference of Americans has little to do with policies of government. America's vast working class see the carefully parsed & filtered "official" economic statistics (inflation & unemployment) and rightly know that they are completely detached from the reality of their lives. These same Americans see infotainment media that purport to be journalists pushing these cooked numbers and the line from Think Tanks serving the same monied interests that own politicians and buy the advertising media companies need to survive.
Translation: they know the numbers are nonsense, the policies are not coming from the people and the news coverage is driven by business considerations- not truth seeking. This leads to distrust of government, politicians and media which in turn leads people to abandon newspapers, TV & radio news. Why watch the so-called news when they tell you there is no inflation yet every bill you have has doubled? Why trust the anchor or the politician who quotes the same nonsense? Who do you believe: me or your lying eyes?
The people are a symptom and a dysfunctional democracy is the cause. Big money and corporatism has corrupted all of it and that is the root of our problem.
It is well known that the opinion & the aggregate preference of Americans has little to do with policies of government. America's vast working class see the carefully parsed & filtered "official" economic statistics (inflation & unemployment) and rightly know that they are completely detached from the reality of their lives. These same Americans see infotainment media that purport to be journalists pushing these cooked numbers and the line from Think Tanks serving the same monied interests that own politicians and buy the advertising media companies need to survive.
Translation: they know the numbers are nonsense, the policies are not coming from the people and the news coverage is driven by business considerations- not truth seeking. This leads to distrust of government, politicians and media which in turn leads people to abandon newspapers, TV & radio news. Why watch the so-called news when they tell you there is no inflation yet every bill you have has doubled? Why trust the anchor or the politician who quotes the same nonsense? Who do you believe: me or your lying eyes?
The people are a symptom and a dysfunctional democracy is the cause. Big money and corporatism has corrupted all of it and that is the root of our problem.
3
The pathetic history of Republicans manipulating the downwardly mobile repeats this year as a farce with the guy from the gold plated towers and private jets. Nothing new here.
That Democrats, the party of the GI Bill, have been looking down on them and not addressing that they should be moving with the times is still a tragedy. Nothing new here either.
That Democrats, the party of the GI Bill, have been looking down on them and not addressing that they should be moving with the times is still a tragedy. Nothing new here either.
5
Comment after comment denigrating the people who support Trump in very superior and insulting terms.
I would NEVER vote for Trump but it disgusts me just how many of you writers choose meanness toward approximately 18,300,000 fellow Americans. You think you are endowed with the right to judge others because you have been more fortunate in your educational experiences.
I suggest all of you upwardly mobile go back to your American history book and learn a little what this nation is supposed to be about.
As far as the phrase 'downwardly mobile', I would have expected some real expert somewhere to finally understand where Trump supporters' anger comes from and not just try to come up with a clever, stilted, pseudo academic label.
It's the lack of opportunity here in the land of opportunity, stupid!!! It's that angry people see opportunity for their children and grandchildren stolen by the 1%, the establishment and their bought politicians.
It's the fundamental, existential meaning of America -that everyone has a chance - that has been destroyed. That's the source of so much anger.
I would NEVER vote for Trump but it disgusts me just how many of you writers choose meanness toward approximately 18,300,000 fellow Americans. You think you are endowed with the right to judge others because you have been more fortunate in your educational experiences.
I suggest all of you upwardly mobile go back to your American history book and learn a little what this nation is supposed to be about.
As far as the phrase 'downwardly mobile', I would have expected some real expert somewhere to finally understand where Trump supporters' anger comes from and not just try to come up with a clever, stilted, pseudo academic label.
It's the lack of opportunity here in the land of opportunity, stupid!!! It's that angry people see opportunity for their children and grandchildren stolen by the 1%, the establishment and their bought politicians.
It's the fundamental, existential meaning of America -that everyone has a chance - that has been destroyed. That's the source of so much anger.
70
I guess the big question that you define as meanness is simply, why in God's name would someone who is concerned about the lack of opportunity (as we all are with our children) would vote for this dishonest, ignorant man who would rather lose an election than show that he hasn't paid his fair share of taxes. Are those 18,300,000 fellow Americans hurting? Of course they are. But in their pain, they are lashing out at the wrong groups - often violently - when all of the information to correct their misguided views is more available than ever.
If they were unable to gain the information, that would be another issue. But they CHOOSE to believe the worst and support the worst.
If they were unable to gain the information, that would be another issue. But they CHOOSE to believe the worst and support the worst.
9
Finally, a comment that gets to the real point. For whatever reason, these people are hurting. Anger is just another form of fear. They are afraid for their future and the future of their children.
Is the expression of their fear--supporting Trump--a misguided response? Probably.
But ignore them at our own peril. Instead, we "elite" should be doing everything we can to be brainstorming solutions that begin to get at these fears. We probably can't change deep seated racist beliefs (another expression of fear), but we can truly work towards a more equitable nation for us all.
Is the expression of their fear--supporting Trump--a misguided response? Probably.
But ignore them at our own peril. Instead, we "elite" should be doing everything we can to be brainstorming solutions that begin to get at these fears. We probably can't change deep seated racist beliefs (another expression of fear), but we can truly work towards a more equitable nation for us all.
4
The history of this country has two contradictory themes. One is based on greed, bigotry and racism which trump personifies very well. The other is based on the acceptance of others and their differences, inclusion, the dignity of each individual. and opportunity for everyone. While no one is perfect at representing this, Hillary is far closer than Mr. Trump. Which do we choose?
If Trump gets waylayed and his faults exposed, it is because he has so many of them and we can not visualize a nation ruled by him and his nasty conservative backers.
If Trump gets waylayed and his faults exposed, it is because he has so many of them and we can not visualize a nation ruled by him and his nasty conservative backers.
9
Pretty interesting findings. Totally a non Trump supporter but have very little faith in our institutions, though I really don't have a problem with immigration. After all it is those "institutions" who invite the immigrants in so they can cut costs and make more money.
5
What is Trump selling? What is his vision? Trump is selling Trump and his vision is of a richer Trump. If you are a conman, a fraud, selling nothing but what’s is inside of a locked box which when opened will contain all of the tools needed to make America great again and whose sales pitch is “TRUST ME.” What is in the box is a secret to be opened when he he is elected. This is the essence of a con job.
Trump has found his marks. Some people who are dissatisfied with their lives and need to blame someone other than themselves, e.g., the government, the system, black people, immigrants, liberals, elites, Muslims, women, the media, etc., those who's news of the world comes FOX and 24/7 hate radio and are fixated on guns, abortion, religion. Paranoid losers. The difference between these Trump supporters and non Trump supporters is in the solution to repair what needs repairing. The latter group says to build and improve the former say tear our system, down start anew.
Without his tax returns which will be fatal to his scam we are asked to buy a pig in a poke. What's inside that box? Nothing just compressed lies and a card saying: " Trust Trump. You have made America Great Again."
Trump has found his marks. Some people who are dissatisfied with their lives and need to blame someone other than themselves, e.g., the government, the system, black people, immigrants, liberals, elites, Muslims, women, the media, etc., those who's news of the world comes FOX and 24/7 hate radio and are fixated on guns, abortion, religion. Paranoid losers. The difference between these Trump supporters and non Trump supporters is in the solution to repair what needs repairing. The latter group says to build and improve the former say tear our system, down start anew.
Without his tax returns which will be fatal to his scam we are asked to buy a pig in a poke. What's inside that box? Nothing just compressed lies and a card saying: " Trust Trump. You have made America Great Again."
10
Downwardly mobile white female here. I couldn't bring myself to vote for a GOP candidate no matter what given the things they have said and allowed to be done in this country since Reagan was in office. When the GOP took in the Dixiecrats after LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act of 1965 (or was it 64) they signaled their suicidal tendencies then. I want no part of a party that uses wedge issues to avoid dealing with the real issues facing our country.
If the GOP and Trump were truly concerned about America they would be talking about programs to help everyone. They would have worked with Obama to improve things after the Depression of 2007 instead of letting it linger on for Main Street America. They would be looking at ways to improve the ACA, improve education for all Americans, help all Americans to have a decent life rather than just the 1% or the corporations.
Too many people born after 1955 have not had a shot at the edges of the American Dream. We couldn't rent decent places let alone buy. We can't save for retirement because we have to worry about unemployment, medical bills, college for our children, caring for our elderly parents: all this with no assistance from the government we pay for because the GOP won't let it function. Of course part of it is our fault for electing these people.
The GOP and Trump do not speak for me. They have no idea what our lives are like. Here's a challenge to the GOP: live our lives for a day and see if you survive.
If the GOP and Trump were truly concerned about America they would be talking about programs to help everyone. They would have worked with Obama to improve things after the Depression of 2007 instead of letting it linger on for Main Street America. They would be looking at ways to improve the ACA, improve education for all Americans, help all Americans to have a decent life rather than just the 1% or the corporations.
Too many people born after 1955 have not had a shot at the edges of the American Dream. We couldn't rent decent places let alone buy. We can't save for retirement because we have to worry about unemployment, medical bills, college for our children, caring for our elderly parents: all this with no assistance from the government we pay for because the GOP won't let it function. Of course part of it is our fault for electing these people.
The GOP and Trump do not speak for me. They have no idea what our lives are like. Here's a challenge to the GOP: live our lives for a day and see if you survive.
41
The downwardly mobile are NOT "doing fine."
That attitude is what fuels Trump.
That attitude is what fuels Trump.
6
Anyone who is not worried about the US future is blind.
Just ask the Millennials.
Just ask the Millennials.
6
Just ask anyone born after 1955 if they aren't worried about the future of the United States and their own future. I've been worried since Reagan was in office because that man, before Trump was ever on the scene, painted such a delusional picture of America that it was scary. His "Morning in America" ad was such a lie that it should have been called "pants on fire". But no one did because they were afraid that he would say "There you go again".
13
If you can pry a Millennial away from his/her cellphone for a minute.
4
I have a hard time understanding why Mrs. Clinton is as unpopular as she apparently is.
I see her as espousing policies similar to ones that John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, Franklin Roosevelt or Ronald Reagan -- none of them perfect people -- would have adopted as their own were they living in the present day. And as a candidate for President whose qualifications fall well within
the range of normal requirements for the office.
Which is only to say that while Mrs. Clinton might not be a perfect President, it seems quite evident she would be far from the worst, which is exactly what Mr. Trump promises to be.
My theory on this is that a great many Americans who are planning to vote for Mr. Trump are desperate-for-any-change-possible people whose intelligence quotients and characters are on a par with his own.
I see her as espousing policies similar to ones that John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, Franklin Roosevelt or Ronald Reagan -- none of them perfect people -- would have adopted as their own were they living in the present day. And as a candidate for President whose qualifications fall well within
the range of normal requirements for the office.
Which is only to say that while Mrs. Clinton might not be a perfect President, it seems quite evident she would be far from the worst, which is exactly what Mr. Trump promises to be.
My theory on this is that a great many Americans who are planning to vote for Mr. Trump are desperate-for-any-change-possible people whose intelligence quotients and characters are on a par with his own.
33
You have a hard time understanding why Hillary is unpopular. It's because she is not credible. She has promised so much to so many interest groups and identity groups, that she cannot fulfill these promises.
And she has so much history of just managing to avoid jail time for multiple scandals. And there's the newest one that is going to take a further toll on her credibility with her possible pay-for-play for the Clinton Foundation, and the State Department.
And she is not in favor of some policies like renegotiating free trade that doesn't benefit American workers, illegal immigration that lowers wages for American workers, and a legacy of messes in Foreign Policy while Head of State.
Does that help?
And she has so much history of just managing to avoid jail time for multiple scandals. And there's the newest one that is going to take a further toll on her credibility with her possible pay-for-play for the Clinton Foundation, and the State Department.
And she is not in favor of some policies like renegotiating free trade that doesn't benefit American workers, illegal immigration that lowers wages for American workers, and a legacy of messes in Foreign Policy while Head of State.
Does that help?
2
Renegotiating free will benefit American workers how again?
Most do not have the training to compete with manufacturers overseas.
How do you solve that problem? How many times has He, Trump laid out his EDUCATION policy?
You have to be educated and trained to compete. You don't just close the border and hope 100,000 factories pop up. Who will manage them? Who will work in them?
Not many Americans, without training. Who funds that?
Keep asking the wrong question though, and pointing the finger at the wrong people. Talk to your local elected officials where they stand. I'm guessing the truth will shock you.
Most do not have the training to compete with manufacturers overseas.
How do you solve that problem? How many times has He, Trump laid out his EDUCATION policy?
You have to be educated and trained to compete. You don't just close the border and hope 100,000 factories pop up. Who will manage them? Who will work in them?
Not many Americans, without training. Who funds that?
Keep asking the wrong question though, and pointing the finger at the wrong people. Talk to your local elected officials where they stand. I'm guessing the truth will shock you.
10
The Trump supporters I know are wealthy, white, older Americans, who feel that as a wealthy, white, older American he shares their economic interests and will "shake things up" in dysfunctional Washington - disruptive innovation, as it were. They detest "amoral" Hillary, but give Trump a pass on amorality because they think it goes with being a shrewd businessman and because unlike Hillary he's up-front about it. I bet a lot of Americans who are anything but "downwardly mobile" feel the same way about Trump.
24
That's the part that astounds me: Trump can refuse to release his taxes, claim that he's extraordinarily healthy and other exaggerations but Clinton can't sneeze without it being an issue. If Trump had been put under the same microscope that Clinton has been under for over 20 years the problems he presents would be far worse than anything Clinton ever did, including the alleged inaction during Benghazi or the email issue that keeps on popping up.
8
But DT hates losers! Why in the world then do they flock to him? The real answer to that is...that they're losers.
23
Downward let mobile white guy here, but I'm left of Bernie Sanders. Go figure.
I can't decide if this data is interesting or just another way to repackage "it's the economy stupid." (Krugman teaches is to deride the Wall Street "confidence fairy" but this Main Street version of economic perceptions, regardless of statistical realities, seems to have pretty powerful effects.)
Still, I'm dying to see the correlation, positive or negative, between downward mobility and racist views (not just immigration but policing, welfare, min wage, and other hot button social issues).
Also: what kind of data is there on nonwhites who feel downwardly mobile?
I get that white guys are considered the most persuadable in this election--all the other demos are pretty much locked in for one or the other, we're told--but I'm sick of reading about white guys without out any context for how out of step they/we are with the rest of the country.
I can't decide if this data is interesting or just another way to repackage "it's the economy stupid." (Krugman teaches is to deride the Wall Street "confidence fairy" but this Main Street version of economic perceptions, regardless of statistical realities, seems to have pretty powerful effects.)
Still, I'm dying to see the correlation, positive or negative, between downward mobility and racist views (not just immigration but policing, welfare, min wage, and other hot button social issues).
Also: what kind of data is there on nonwhites who feel downwardly mobile?
I get that white guys are considered the most persuadable in this election--all the other demos are pretty much locked in for one or the other, we're told--but I'm sick of reading about white guys without out any context for how out of step they/we are with the rest of the country.
10
With Donald Trump as POTUS, Americans will discover what it means to be a
"downwardly mobile" country. It won't be pretty.
"downwardly mobile" country. It won't be pretty.
28
Hmmmm...maybe all these "downward mobile" characters, who are worried about their kids future but don't believe the science of "climate change", will meet the "upwardly mobile" oceans and the "problem" will solve itself.
For "Mother Nature" can be a VERY cruel mother!
For "Mother Nature" can be a VERY cruel mother!
21
Trump, the right wing media, and the Republican party over the last decades have been very successful in raising the ire of the downwardly mobile and in aiming that resulting rage at the wrong targets.
They have unerringly waved the red cape at government and the poor and immigrants and Hispanics and Muslims and social programs as the cause of their problems - the low hanging identifiable fruit, drawing attention away from the real, but harder to see sources of their pain and predicament.
The increasing and, I would say criminal, self distribution of corporate profits by CEO's and upper management; the increasing focus on quarterly profits for shareholders at the expense of distributions to employees; the inevitable pressures of increasing technological advances; the tax structure designed by the wealthy for the wealthy and the corporations who took advantage of every loophole Congress had gifted them - allowing corporations and the 1% to pay little or no taxes while the little guy shouldered the tax burden; giving incentives to corporations to leave the country or base their home offices abroad to avoid taxes at home while reaping the benefits of doing business here; the refusal to fund education and social services like Planned Parenthood and day care and pre-school programs that offer a hand up not out; allowing criminals on Wall Street to go about their greedy business with less government regulation...
They are very good at having people charge the wrong bulls.
They have unerringly waved the red cape at government and the poor and immigrants and Hispanics and Muslims and social programs as the cause of their problems - the low hanging identifiable fruit, drawing attention away from the real, but harder to see sources of their pain and predicament.
The increasing and, I would say criminal, self distribution of corporate profits by CEO's and upper management; the increasing focus on quarterly profits for shareholders at the expense of distributions to employees; the inevitable pressures of increasing technological advances; the tax structure designed by the wealthy for the wealthy and the corporations who took advantage of every loophole Congress had gifted them - allowing corporations and the 1% to pay little or no taxes while the little guy shouldered the tax burden; giving incentives to corporations to leave the country or base their home offices abroad to avoid taxes at home while reaping the benefits of doing business here; the refusal to fund education and social services like Planned Parenthood and day care and pre-school programs that offer a hand up not out; allowing criminals on Wall Street to go about their greedy business with less government regulation...
They are very good at having people charge the wrong bulls.
18
Donald Trump is the Coca-Cola cowboy candidate. All hat and no cattle. He's at home riding a 757, not a quarter horse. His petulant sneer ain't no Eastwood smile and he surely doesn't have Robert Redford hair. As a candidate, he has no concrete proposals to make America Great Again other than building a huge wall and passing huge tax cuts.
So, why do so many seemingly intelligent Americans support Trump? Great question. That's why we have so many articles like this one. I believe that the answer is deceptively simple. Trump's supporters are Republicans, primarily Tea Party Republicans. They don't have any concrete, shared vision of an effective president, an effective government or even a Great America. They really don't care whether Trump wins or what Trump might actually do in the White House. They just want to see the Democratic candidate lose.
So, why do so many seemingly intelligent Americans support Trump? Great question. That's why we have so many articles like this one. I believe that the answer is deceptively simple. Trump's supporters are Republicans, primarily Tea Party Republicans. They don't have any concrete, shared vision of an effective president, an effective government or even a Great America. They really don't care whether Trump wins or what Trump might actually do in the White House. They just want to see the Democratic candidate lose.
203
And the country burn.
3
I really appreciate the researchers' attempt to distinguish between the responders' perception of their SES versus an objective measure. This should explain more. (In healthcare satisfaction surveys, self-reported health status has a much greater effect on satisfaction than objective measures of health status.)
So, I think if pollsters and researchers could develop a Debbie Downer Index that would explain a lot. It appears that Trump supporters love hearing negative stuff: losers, rigged, crooked, stupid etc. The GOP has always made me want to curl up into a fetal position, but this year is off the charts.
And we need to start seeing some multivariate analyses. It is hard to make sense of all these simple stratifications.
So, I think if pollsters and researchers could develop a Debbie Downer Index that would explain a lot. It appears that Trump supporters love hearing negative stuff: losers, rigged, crooked, stupid etc. The GOP has always made me want to curl up into a fetal position, but this year is off the charts.
And we need to start seeing some multivariate analyses. It is hard to make sense of all these simple stratifications.
6
Under educated code for stupid? Just because someone did not go to college does not make them stupid. Not everyone is meant to go to college and our country does a terrible job of providing places where people can go to learn a skill that is valued. The Democrats, which I usually vote with, promote helping underprivileged. In other words people of color. Well white is a color too and a lot of whites are not part of the so called privileged. So until they are included in plans to help those left behind you're going to have people like Trump finding support.
10
And yet Trump has said nothing about education and training, aside from "renegotiating NAFTA so good" and "building a wall to keep others out".
Explain to me, in detail, how that is supposed to help you develop the skills needed to partake in the new market?
Explain to me, in detail, how that is supposed to help you develop the skills needed to partake in the new market?
7
I think what he have now is people who are uninformed or misinformed and that is happening across all levels of education.
It would be interesting to see the overlap, if any, between Tea Party supporters and Trump supporters.
And the to ask the Tea Party supporters why their Congressional Caucus has achieved nothing in the past 6 years.
And the to ask the Tea Party supporters why their Congressional Caucus has achieved nothing in the past 6 years.
14
Rita, the whole goal of the so-called tea party caucus was to achieve nothing. They got what they want.
6
Bingo.
Disgruntled Americans are frustrated that their Congress (not President, it is not the blame for the President here) doesn't do anything.
The Congress they "elected" due to gerrymandered redistricting that put voters best interests last.
Disgruntled Americans are frustrated that their Congress (not President, it is not the blame for the President here) doesn't do anything.
The Congress they "elected" due to gerrymandered redistricting that put voters best interests last.
6
Andy Harris -- Freedom Caucus - I live in his district and the republican voters would like more deficit reduction, more military/ defense, lower taxes, less government interference in markets etc. The Freedom Caucus is good start and once more like minded individuals are elected the ship of state can be turned around. Removing Speaker Boehner was a major accomplishment, "the mouse has roared" -- blocking, stopping, preventing-- these are all achievements for the Freedom Caucus.
We have been warned by researchers, the media, even other Republicans about how dangerous Trump would be as president. I don't understand the allure. I don't understand the gullibility. I do understand fear and I've never been more afraid for this country than now with the prospect that Trump could, might, will be president.
26
Throughout his "gold-plated" existence the "downwardly mobile" have never even been a blip on Donald Trump's personal radar, except as a category to be stiffed, scammed and fleeced. He now exploits their fear, insularity and ignorance in his unending quest for self-aggrandizement. If he becomes POTUS they will be his first victims.
32
Its easy to support Trump, the politically correct minions of liberalism are finding their style to be what it really always has been- The Emperor's new Clothes.
5
As I gaze at old school's meme of a brain, I see evidence indicating two dimensional thinking, but no critical thinking.
Not to be callous about these findings, but watching the interviews of Trump supporters and the logic they promote one does see a reason why they are downwardly mobile.
29
I keep wondering when the NYT is going to publish an analysis of that group of people who support Trump primarily because they detest Clinton. No highbrow economic analysis is needed here.
83
Good idea.
Hopefully that analysis will include a survey of what news media the Hillary Haters rely on for unbiased reporting on the subject.
Hopefully that analysis will include a survey of what news media the Hillary Haters rely on for unbiased reporting on the subject.
13
@kwb
Cumming, GA
No need to wonder. It's principally made up of the group described in this article. They're much the same people who detest Obama and for much the same real or imagined reasons. Would this group include you?
Cumming, GA
No need to wonder. It's principally made up of the group described in this article. They're much the same people who detest Obama and for much the same real or imagined reasons. Would this group include you?
16
@John
Personally I'm voting Libertarian. I don't detest Obama, merely am opposed to the means he used to force through Obamacare rather than concentrating on jobs while he had majorities in both houses of Congress. His feckless policies on Syria are another blot on his record for me. As a person he's admirable, but so is Carter, and that administration was equally disastrous.
As for Clinton, I presume she'll win. Liberal appointments to SCOTUS will be a plus, but deficit spending will continue.
Personally I'm voting Libertarian. I don't detest Obama, merely am opposed to the means he used to force through Obamacare rather than concentrating on jobs while he had majorities in both houses of Congress. His feckless policies on Syria are another blot on his record for me. As a person he's admirable, but so is Carter, and that administration was equally disastrous.
As for Clinton, I presume she'll win. Liberal appointments to SCOTUS will be a plus, but deficit spending will continue.
1
Outrageous! Other than the common wisdom that Trump "speaks for me" compared with Hillary "speaks for 'them'," there is nothing in Trump's proposals that would do a thing for working class whites. I see the same thing in local campaigns, where the Republican candidates for the state legislature claim to be "the working man's candidate," with programs to lower taxes on the rich and remove regulations on businesses. Education, infrastructure, the environment... These are areas where changes could help businesses, the working class and our children. Taking money out of the economy by giving it to the rich, who already do not spend what they have, sending immigrants back where they came from, immigrants who already do jobs that former factory workers feel is beneath them, and letting big businesses pollute the air and landscape while hiring illegals (those pesky regulations), would do nothing for our nation or our future.
124
"These are the voters who will look for leaders who can restore their faith in progress — and promise that no matter how well things are going for them, their children will be better off." That statement may be an excessively positive way of regarding Trump supporters. While the downwardly mobile concept probably does describe his core supporters, it's hard to believe that they really believe the Donald's con.Their attitude seems more one that wants recognition of their frustration and feeling that the American Dream has been stolen from them. They don't seem to care whether Mr. Trump is what he claims to be or whether he can actually do any of what he promises. They just want to dismantle the existing Washington status quo.
9
Who supports Donald Trump? The simple answer is people who are angry. The more accurate answer is people whose anger is misguided.
The past half century has not been kind to many Americans who grew up accustomed to the America of post-WWII.
Whites who expected to do better than blacks (because of their misconception that they are better) have been disappointed by economic and social gains made by blacks. (Racism is alive.)
High school graduates expected to have good paying life-long jobs at the same manufacturing plants from which their fathers retired; but those jobs no longer exist--plants automated their production or relocated for cheaper labor. (Had they stayed, they would have stamped out unions, eliminated benefits and cut pay.)
People who have worked hard have seen their homes taken away, their earnings reduced, their very existence put at risk by the failure of government to regulate financial institutions, put brakes on greed, stop investing from turning into a roulette wheel.
People are angry that our federal government has been brought to a standstill. Needs not being met; obvious infrastructure failure exacerbated by government failure. But it is ever worse--the government can't even pass a funding bill to address the health threat of Zika.
The problem is, many people are so angry they can't think straight. Their anger is misguided. Instead of blaming Republicans and the greedy, they are supporting the very perpetrators of most of America's problems.
The past half century has not been kind to many Americans who grew up accustomed to the America of post-WWII.
Whites who expected to do better than blacks (because of their misconception that they are better) have been disappointed by economic and social gains made by blacks. (Racism is alive.)
High school graduates expected to have good paying life-long jobs at the same manufacturing plants from which their fathers retired; but those jobs no longer exist--plants automated their production or relocated for cheaper labor. (Had they stayed, they would have stamped out unions, eliminated benefits and cut pay.)
People who have worked hard have seen their homes taken away, their earnings reduced, their very existence put at risk by the failure of government to regulate financial institutions, put brakes on greed, stop investing from turning into a roulette wheel.
People are angry that our federal government has been brought to a standstill. Needs not being met; obvious infrastructure failure exacerbated by government failure. But it is ever worse--the government can't even pass a funding bill to address the health threat of Zika.
The problem is, many people are so angry they can't think straight. Their anger is misguided. Instead of blaming Republicans and the greedy, they are supporting the very perpetrators of most of America's problems.
409
Rewording one of your sentences would describe the anger that Trump is stirring up, and this cuts across all demographics and describes both parties.
Our Federal government has been bought to a standstill.
Our Federal government has been bought to a standstill.
5
In part I agree with your analysis which correctly touches on our ills and our frustrations with politics as now played in our country. But the rise of the demagogue involved, at least in part, a rejection of the GOP too. JEB! was supposed to be the anointed one who would spare us from the junior Senator from Texas. But along came a celebrity with outrageous and profane remarks, and all kinds of dog whistles (and sometimes overt racism and bigotry) to excite both the alt-right and frustrated lower middle class whites sans university degrees. Republicans have been rejected, and some of their core positions (activist foreign and military policy; free trade; privatizing Soc. Security etc.) have been trashed.
5
@JA Barry: that is a dumb remark and contradicts EVERYTHING the NYT has written about for the last two years. Black Americans are NOT doing better than white Americans. Indeed, one of the indelible problems we have as a nation is that after 50 years of welfare and LBJs Great Society....black Americans are worse off than ever, by every metric.
To read your words, one would imagine that black Americans are doing BETTER than working class whites, holding managerial jobs, while those "dumb, stupid, low information" white people must bow & scrape to their black overlords. That is about as far from reality as a science fiction movie! For every unemployed white man whose job was outsourced to a foreign manufacturer...there are two black men without jobs! and most of those have lost THEIR jobs to illegal immigrants flooding into once black areas in large cities.
It is also an exaggeration to imagine this is all about factory jobs. All the unemployed middle aged white guys I know (and actually I know about the same number of unemployed white WOMEN) lost OFFICE jobs....managerial jobs....even computer jobs, publishing jobs, legal jobs. They have college degrees! It is a total stereotype to imagine this group is all disenfranchised factory workers.
When Carrier left Indiana for Mexico....do you seriously think it was because they had "automated" the manufacture of air conditioning units? by robots? or do you think it was because a worker in Mexico gets $4 vs. $22 in Indiana????
To read your words, one would imagine that black Americans are doing BETTER than working class whites, holding managerial jobs, while those "dumb, stupid, low information" white people must bow & scrape to their black overlords. That is about as far from reality as a science fiction movie! For every unemployed white man whose job was outsourced to a foreign manufacturer...there are two black men without jobs! and most of those have lost THEIR jobs to illegal immigrants flooding into once black areas in large cities.
It is also an exaggeration to imagine this is all about factory jobs. All the unemployed middle aged white guys I know (and actually I know about the same number of unemployed white WOMEN) lost OFFICE jobs....managerial jobs....even computer jobs, publishing jobs, legal jobs. They have college degrees! It is a total stereotype to imagine this group is all disenfranchised factory workers.
When Carrier left Indiana for Mexico....do you seriously think it was because they had "automated" the manufacture of air conditioning units? by robots? or do you think it was because a worker in Mexico gets $4 vs. $22 in Indiana????
An interesting essay but one that illustrates why many believe the term "political science" is an oxymoron. Questionnaires, surveys, and polls are always somewhat iffy, often dependent on carefully crafted wording and, if conducted in person, gestures and intonations. One thinks of Disraeli's quote: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." The predictive utility of these kinds of efforts, even in statistically macro terms, is also debatable. Usually, the real value is post facto analysis: something happened, do we know why? In any event, the study attributes aspirational motivations to "downwardly mobile working-class whites" that may not exist. It may also confuse "progress" with opportunity, which more closely ties to the supposed immigration effect; a dynamic debated for decades without conclusive result.
What makes people receptive to Trump's simplistic messaging? Whatever justification they can impute for whatever ills they may think (or, more honestly, feel) afflict them. These ills are usually attached to "them" and, let's be honest, to Obama and now Clinton. These ills have become blindingly personalized and demonized. Many real and substantive problems that Democrats identified and sought to address, and that the GOP stonewalled, are now being mouthed by Trump, along with basically Democratic solutions. The irony of the overt manipulation of the so-called downwardly mobile working-class whites is not lost.
What makes people receptive to Trump's simplistic messaging? Whatever justification they can impute for whatever ills they may think (or, more honestly, feel) afflict them. These ills are usually attached to "them" and, let's be honest, to Obama and now Clinton. These ills have become blindingly personalized and demonized. Many real and substantive problems that Democrats identified and sought to address, and that the GOP stonewalled, are now being mouthed by Trump, along with basically Democratic solutions. The irony of the overt manipulation of the so-called downwardly mobile working-class whites is not lost.
9
Thomas Frank has addressed this issue in a compassionate way, and so on occasion, has Mr Edsel of NYT fame. Other than that, NYT columnists and readers, clearly in the upwardly mobile category, have chosen to ignore the damage done by offshoring of working class whites' livelihoods and the destruction of their communities, since they are more concerned with workers in Asia than those in Ohio.
8
I could understand people's fears for the future. But why Trump? The man's history clearly indicates that he is a manipulative person who has never shown a regard for the working man or woman. He is off the charts when it comes to telling the truth. Facts back that assertion up. Trump's ignorance of world geography and events is astounding. His admiration for Putin is scary. He is profane to the point that no candidate has ever been in the past, at least in the 20th and 21st centuries. He is a braggart to comic proportions. And he looks funny besides. Why Trump?
160
Because it is visceral and not cerebral. Look at Brexit. Days after they voted to leave, they wanted a redo!
And - now we have Nigel Farage stumping for Trump in some deep red southern state! After he ginned up the anger he was all wha wha wha what? Me as prime minister? Um no ... I don't want to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. I'll just go across the pond and help my fellow s$&@ disturber narcissist.
And - now we have Nigel Farage stumping for Trump in some deep red southern state! After he ginned up the anger he was all wha wha wha what? Me as prime minister? Um no ... I don't want to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. I'll just go across the pond and help my fellow s$&@ disturber narcissist.
14
Television.
5
Maybe they've spent their whole life around people like Trump (minus the money). He may be normal to them.
5
Roughly 1/3 of whites have attained at least a Bachelors Degree.
Whites are roughly 70% of the population according to the 2000 census.
The NYT continues their condescending view of Trump supporters as being the uneducated White voters. If you do the math, the uneducated white voters make up close to 45% of our population. If you are a politician, that is not a bad demographic to start with.
Now add in the fact that the Republicans are supposedly the party of the rich, roughly 10% of the population, depending on where you draw the line. Income is highly correlated to educational achievement, therefore the most highly educated must make up that rich folk and Republican demographic,
Hillary panders to Hispanics (12%) and Blacks (13%) and Trump will be making a concerted effort to sway those voters. He can make a strong argument that, whatever their words, the deeds of the Democrats have not produced much positive results for Blacks.
What percentage of the population is really College Professors, trial lawyers, social workers or government employees, the true Democrat base?
Hillary would appear to have a tough row to hoe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States
http://www.censusscope.org/us/chart_race.html
Whites are roughly 70% of the population according to the 2000 census.
The NYT continues their condescending view of Trump supporters as being the uneducated White voters. If you do the math, the uneducated white voters make up close to 45% of our population. If you are a politician, that is not a bad demographic to start with.
Now add in the fact that the Republicans are supposedly the party of the rich, roughly 10% of the population, depending on where you draw the line. Income is highly correlated to educational achievement, therefore the most highly educated must make up that rich folk and Republican demographic,
Hillary panders to Hispanics (12%) and Blacks (13%) and Trump will be making a concerted effort to sway those voters. He can make a strong argument that, whatever their words, the deeds of the Democrats have not produced much positive results for Blacks.
What percentage of the population is really College Professors, trial lawyers, social workers or government employees, the true Democrat base?
Hillary would appear to have a tough row to hoe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States
http://www.censusscope.org/us/chart_race.html
7
Were you involved in Romney's "internal polling?"
7
Given the many trumped up claims Trump has made, perhaps people who think they're stagnating instead of thriving support Trump because they have the luxury of gambling on the outcome of this election, thinking they might have something to gain while being unaware of what they have to lose.
People who are really economically disadvantaged don't have that luxury; they need opportunity, and voting for a president who's actions are like spinning a roulette wheel is a risk they cannot afford.
It's easy to support a wild card when the outcome doesn't really seem to matter.
People who are really economically disadvantaged don't have that luxury; they need opportunity, and voting for a president who's actions are like spinning a roulette wheel is a risk they cannot afford.
It's easy to support a wild card when the outcome doesn't really seem to matter.
77
"What makes Americans receptive to what Donald J. Trump has been saying on the campaign trail?"
That's easy: ignorance and racism.
Next question please.
That's easy: ignorance and racism.
Next question please.
26
In many ways, Trump represents the apotheosis of what the downwardly mobile wishes they could be. He's rich beyond winning the lottery. (It doesn't matter how much he's really worth, it's millions and possibly billions of dollars). He's famous. Isn't celebrity the goal of the 21st Century? He's been married to a succession of beautiful women. He's able to game the system - while we haven't seen his tax returns, we can surmise that he's played the system to its fullest extent - which the downwardly mobile would love to do, but can't. And he's able to say the most outrageous, non-pc things without any fear of repercussion, which they wish they could do. He's got a private jet. Has towers with their names on it. It goes on.
165
We don't have to surmise that he's played the system to it's fullest extent--he's bragged about this openly more than once. He's proud of it.
I think his supporters think mere proximity to Him, and blind unwavering support to Him, will somehow make all his Greatness rub off on them. They, and much of the country (including this Hillary voter), are understandably disgusted with Establishment politics, non-functioning Congress, corporate greed, on and on, and they see no other way out than supporting this lunatic. SAD! I will say I learned more during these primaries than any previous election cycle, and have to say they sometimes seemed, dare I say it, "rigged". Caucuses? Flipping coins for an outcome? Partisan DNC e-mails? Then there's Citizens United, Super Pacs, and the Electoral College. Where to start it tearing it apart, I don't know, but I DO know it's not by electing Trump.
I think his supporters think mere proximity to Him, and blind unwavering support to Him, will somehow make all his Greatness rub off on them. They, and much of the country (including this Hillary voter), are understandably disgusted with Establishment politics, non-functioning Congress, corporate greed, on and on, and they see no other way out than supporting this lunatic. SAD! I will say I learned more during these primaries than any previous election cycle, and have to say they sometimes seemed, dare I say it, "rigged". Caucuses? Flipping coins for an outcome? Partisan DNC e-mails? Then there's Citizens United, Super Pacs, and the Electoral College. Where to start it tearing it apart, I don't know, but I DO know it's not by electing Trump.
1
What they all have in common is looking to someone else to solve their problems for them and make their lives better for them. We seem to have forgotten that America only became great through the pursuit of personal excellence, not through a particular president who had the "right" policies. Only when everyone expects the best from themselves does the entire country become great.
Trump is correct in one respect in that America has lost much of its greatness. That has come about not by Republican or Democratic policies, bad trade deals, or China's rise, but from an electorate that demands less of itself and shifts more of the responsibility - and blame - to others.
Trump is correct in one respect in that America has lost much of its greatness. That has come about not by Republican or Democratic policies, bad trade deals, or China's rise, but from an electorate that demands less of itself and shifts more of the responsibility - and blame - to others.
153
Read 'Hillbilly Elegy" by J D Vance. It's his take too, with some background on possible reasons.
6
"My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." JFK
This is part of the appeal of Sen. Sanders, he is asking citizens to participate in changing this country. He sets concrete goals that will help solve people's problems. Trump has goals too, a concrete wall which solves nothing.
This is part of the appeal of Sen. Sanders, he is asking citizens to participate in changing this country. He sets concrete goals that will help solve people's problems. Trump has goals too, a concrete wall which solves nothing.
I've noticed a trend not addressed in this article. Many wealthy people, well educated people, a doctor, an engineer, a lawyer, an accountant, a very successful businessman, are supporting Trump. In asking them how they could support someone, who in my opinion is a moron, they say, he's better than Hillary. So it's a bit of a protest vote against Hillary but I suspect the real reason is they're afraid Hillary is going to raise their taxes. Anyone with money who is supporting Trump is supporting him for this 1 reason. Nothing motivates people like money.
26
If Bush et al hadn't crashed the real estate market and economy by permitting fraud in the financial sector ...we wouldn't have so many citizens struggling to achieve a viable economic status
In the first place.
Pulling the rug out from the most democratic of wealth generators - real estate - has kept the prospects of the working middle class down across yoooge parts of our country...
In the first place.
Pulling the rug out from the most democratic of wealth generators - real estate - has kept the prospects of the working middle class down across yoooge parts of our country...
8
You don't see downwardly mobile at Trump rallies as much as you see hate and fear and willful ignorance. You won't see givers as much as you'll see takers. It's all about "ME" and Trump is the perfect "ME and :ME ONLY." Educated or not doesn't matter if you're unable to discern what truth is.
Anyone who thinks The Buffoon actually cares one whit about anything but himself is to be pitied. Without having a clue of what he was doing other than promoting himself he found the worst in us. It's an ugly, dirty sight.
Anyone who thinks The Buffoon actually cares one whit about anything but himself is to be pitied. Without having a clue of what he was doing other than promoting himself he found the worst in us. It's an ugly, dirty sight.
326
T stands for "the I-squared": The Ignorant and Intolerant.
You need to be both I's to be a T supporter.
You need to be both I's to be a T supporter.
6
If one looks at data--something most of Trump's supporters are not inclined to do in any depth--downward wealth mobility, since the end of the "Great Recession," has been increasing much more for racial and ethnic minorities than for whites: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/12/12/racial-wealth-gaps-great... . Given the striking lack of support for Trump within those communities most affected, the racial whistle he employs is stunningly apparent. Thank heavens those communities hit the hardest by rising wealth inequality know better than to trust Trump (who will never show us the details of his labyrinthine business dealings and who most certainly would never develop an international charitable initiative). Those communities can see the escalating and ugly hand of the alt-right Breitbart crew and its bigoted minions. It is discouraging to see so many white Americans locked into that ugly and mendacious media silo.
214
Are you suggesting that racial and ethnic minorities would be better served voting for the same people that have overseen their decline? Funny.
As Trump says, what have they got to lose.
As Trump says, what have they got to lose.
1
Ken,
So you've already forgotten that the "Great Recession" occurred under Bush? And you push that the Breitbart crew is a thoughtful supporter of minorities and many blameless immigrants? I suspect you know better. As I said, it is apparent that those minorities mostly know better than to listen to your disinformation.
So you've already forgotten that the "Great Recession" occurred under Bush? And you push that the Breitbart crew is a thoughtful supporter of minorities and many blameless immigrants? I suspect you know better. As I said, it is apparent that those minorities mostly know better than to listen to your disinformation.
7
In the south - Republican country - people are generally religious. Religious people have faith. They also tend to be followers. I've noticed that having a flashy church and a pastor who dresses well and drives a nice car is important to a lot of them, and they don't mind donating generously to keep up this image of prosperity, as if it will eventually filter down to them. Maybe that's part of what's going on with Trump and these frustrated men. They'll never have a glitzy airplane and gold throne and string of floozies vying for their attention, but they look to this vulgar, nasty, dumpy man who can spew his ugliest thoughts with impunity yet still 'have it all' as an idol.
450
Excellent, KJ.
And religions are also cults, often cults of personality.
Jimmy Swaggart and Tammy Faye Baker are role models for Donald Trump and the Prosperity Gospel Fake Bible Belt.
Hypocrisy is Heaven to the Southern Bible Belt.
And religions are also cults, often cults of personality.
Jimmy Swaggart and Tammy Faye Baker are role models for Donald Trump and the Prosperity Gospel Fake Bible Belt.
Hypocrisy is Heaven to the Southern Bible Belt.
12
Imagine "Chucky" posed as an evangelist and we have Donald Trump, aka "Reverend Riot." Blind faith isn't really faith; it's a deadly drug - an opiate that dulls the mind.
6
Compare those states with the lowest number of college graduates and highest number of drop-outs to those voting Republican. No surpises here...
6
Donald Trump does not address concerns of the downwardly mobile, he articulates their grievances. There is nothing in his policy proposals that will attend to the challenges this population faces. And where it heard Barack Obama's observations on God and guns as an elite dismissal of their place in society they hear Trump's affirmation of the same as validation of their significance. That affirmation with its imbedded legitimation of grievance is reason enough to support Trump. The fact that Trump characterizes the “Other“....minorities, immigrants, uppity women, scientists, etc.....as the cause of such grievances rather than the financial and managerial elites attests to his fundamental alignment with the Republican establishment he occasionally maligns. But his posture is all for show. What saves Trump is the fact that the Clinton wing of the Democratic Party embraces those same elites. Hillary Clinton will mention Trump's refusal to show his tax returns but will never use that refusal as the basis for a full-voice attack on class privilege and corruption of the process that permits Trump tp amass wealth in spite of his evident incapacity as a productive businessman. Clinton cannot do that because she is a client of the network of the wealthy Trump represents even though they disdain his vulgarity. Hillary Clinton keeps Trump in the race, and the Democratic elites preferred to risk losing with her than risk Bernie Sanders or equivalent becoming President of the U.S.
6
If the thesis of this piece is correct, Trump will win in a landslide—the disaffected downwardly mobile is potentially the bottom 99.9% of the population.
If Trump and/or Clinton corruption manage/s to mobilize them in time, Mrs Clinton doesn't have a prayer.
If Trump and/or Clinton corruption manage/s to mobilize them in time, Mrs Clinton doesn't have a prayer.
4
What if it's the FEAR of downward mobility? Or just treading water? It doesn't have to actually be sliding backwards. But given the insecurity of jobs these days...
3
If this were true, blacks and minorities would be flocking to the orange messiah. Unless I have it wrong, and these groups are all doing just great and are happy with their new, improved lot. These are the same people who say that minorities should just get off their lazy butts and get a job - any job at any pay, while they themselves can't find one or are willing to take one they deem to be beneath them. These are the BLAMERS, not the doers. The minorities can see this and know that the target is on THEIR backs.
12
@daily lemma
This is incoherent. What you are asserting is that Black complaints are legitimate and Whites' are not.
I am not surprised given the newspaper.
This is incoherent. What you are asserting is that Black complaints are legitimate and Whites' are not.
I am not surprised given the newspaper.
2
trump is most certainly worse off then his father
His father was arrested at a KKK rally in Queens. The Trump organization followed racist policies in renting apartments in their various housing developments. They were sued by the US government for their racist policies. Trump has a long history of racism.
13
You don't have to be personally affected by the lack of the kind of good-paying jobs that used to sustain our middle class to feel compassion and concern for people who were (and continue to be) affected by trade deals and off-shoring.
10
He shouts and makes rash demented promises of making America great again to his phalanxes of downwardly and upwardly mobile followers. One wonders how a carney-barker from Queens, a millionaire (billionaire? he has not disclosed his income tax so there's no way for us to know where he stands on the money-acquisition ladder) is running for our Presidency. His knowledge of history and American foreign policy and economics is lower than some high school graduates - i.e. slim to none - so how has Donald Trump amassed such a great number of voters who believe his rash and wild promises and feel one with his bigotry, anger, misogyny, the standards and banners of unAmerican values he is bearing as he galumphs - a rough beast - toward the Presidency? Perhaps Andrew Cherlin, the sociologist who wrote "The Downwardly Mobile for Trump" is correct in his assessment that Trump's followers are looking for anyone who promises that their children will be better off than they were/are. Trump's art of the deal is dealing in fear, hostility and panic among his red-hatted low-info believers.
8
• ...they have merely bought into the American idea of progress — which implies that every generation should have a better life than the previous one....
“It’s called the ‘American dream’ but you have to be asleep to believe it.”
~ GEORGE CARLIN
“It’s called the ‘American dream’ but you have to be asleep to believe it.”
~ GEORGE CARLIN
6
Being poor doesn't mean a person can't think. And they should. Where does Trump get the vast riches he constantly brags about but probably doesn't have? His casinos have gone bankrupt hand he's a flop in the building industry. Trump really is a lawyer-padded parasite who is selling himself. And the people with the real money have started to see through that, so he's using this campaign as a ladder to new income sources.
If these angry under-employed men want to blast off some steam they should go to monster truck shows or whatever, not support a mouthy idiot for president.
If these angry under-employed men want to blast off some steam they should go to monster truck shows or whatever, not support a mouthy idiot for president.
10
Trump preaches fear and anger to people made stupid by their own fear and anger. He is leading a riot, not a movement.
An important questions was framed in the pages a few days ago: What do we do after Trump? What do we do with the millions of people who will enthusiastically vote for a grifter who offers nothing that will benefit them or our country?
We know who Trump is, we know what he is. To paraphrase Pogo: We have met the enemy, and he is in many ways us - that dark, angry creature that would mindlessly destroy everything, but has not idea how to build anything.
An important questions was framed in the pages a few days ago: What do we do after Trump? What do we do with the millions of people who will enthusiastically vote for a grifter who offers nothing that will benefit them or our country?
We know who Trump is, we know what he is. To paraphrase Pogo: We have met the enemy, and he is in many ways us - that dark, angry creature that would mindlessly destroy everything, but has not idea how to build anything.
396
I believe that the motivation to believe and vote for Trump is rooted in similar causes to what produced Brexit in England -- ignorance so deep that they don't understand that their circumstances were brought about by major forces that have changed the world in the areas of computing, robotics and world-wide communication, erasing borders. Their lot has nothing to do with what Trump tells them it does -- he doesn't have a clue either or he's lying to them, either of which is highly plausible, nor did the situation of the British counterparts have anything to do with EU membership, despite what they were told by their own snake-oil salesmen.
The only way toward increased prosperity for these people is re-education to learn a skill that is marketable. Coal isn't coming back, thank goodness.
The only way toward increased prosperity for these people is re-education to learn a skill that is marketable. Coal isn't coming back, thank goodness.
12
"People often compare their standard of living with the standard they experienced while growing up. The most dissatisfied individuals tend to be the ones who don’t think they have matched or exceeded their parents’ economic standing. " The jobs that required only a high school education were available in the 60's, 70's and 80' are gone because of technology and the changing market place. Those jobs are gone wold-wide unless you count child labor in third-world countries. Research the job market, get training on jobs that are available (health care, for example) and go after the jobs. We are not masking buggy whips any more...
4
Trump supporters must be required to finish middle school.
The only thing 'downwardly mobile' for both Trump supporters and the GOP Whites R Us voter base has been their political IQ.
Instead of focusing on the hard work of forging better public solutions to America's problems, Trump supporters have placed their bets on the Trump Infomercial, hoping that their faith in a professional brand merchandiser and serial bloviator will Make America Great Again by elevating a Birther-In-Chief to the serious role of Commander-In-Chief.
More broadly, the GOP voter base has always fallen for mindless branding over the more boring reality of actually talking about and helping to craft better public policy.
We saw GOP voters fall for 'compassionate conservatism' in 2000, which turned out to be one of the most bankrupt brands in American history as the Bush-Cheney Neo-Con Artists took America and the world for a ride over several different cliffs of destruction.
Many of these willfully ignorant Americans still fall for tax cut jingles, waving American flags and jingoism as a solution to their daily troubles, completely rejecting overwhelming states' evidence from Europe, Japan, Canada and Australia that social democratic policies like single-payer health care, gun control, higher taxes and unionization are all 'socialist' success stories.
Trump voters are just the latest collection of sad Republican voters glued to a TV infomercial and lined up to buy the TrumpMaster and Trump's Spray-On-Hair that offers an unconditional money-back guarantee.
Instead of focusing on the hard work of forging better public solutions to America's problems, Trump supporters have placed their bets on the Trump Infomercial, hoping that their faith in a professional brand merchandiser and serial bloviator will Make America Great Again by elevating a Birther-In-Chief to the serious role of Commander-In-Chief.
More broadly, the GOP voter base has always fallen for mindless branding over the more boring reality of actually talking about and helping to craft better public policy.
We saw GOP voters fall for 'compassionate conservatism' in 2000, which turned out to be one of the most bankrupt brands in American history as the Bush-Cheney Neo-Con Artists took America and the world for a ride over several different cliffs of destruction.
Many of these willfully ignorant Americans still fall for tax cut jingles, waving American flags and jingoism as a solution to their daily troubles, completely rejecting overwhelming states' evidence from Europe, Japan, Canada and Australia that social democratic policies like single-payer health care, gun control, higher taxes and unionization are all 'socialist' success stories.
Trump voters are just the latest collection of sad Republican voters glued to a TV infomercial and lined up to buy the TrumpMaster and Trump's Spray-On-Hair that offers an unconditional money-back guarantee.
241
Awesome. Well said.
7
Socrates, compassionate conservatism is an oxymoron. It was more like confirmed conning once you figured out what was being done to America in the name of safety and patriotism after 9/11/2001. The attack that killed nearly 3000 Americans was a godsend to the GOP. Here was their war. Here was W's opportunity to be a wartime president and show off his Christian credentials via Rumsfeld and Cheney. Here was the way to legitimize all the government intrusion and spying on Americans that they wanted to do. It almost makes you wonder if they ignored warnings about Al Qaeda on purpose.
6
Rather than downwardly mobile and upwardly mobile, it could also be explained as pessimists and optimists combined with understanding of the facts. Perception rather than reality seems to drive certain groups of voters. Other surveys show the disconnect between facts and perceptions of voters and other surveys show the financial illiteracy of the general public. Rarely are surveys assessing the knowledge of the participant and the answers of the participant for cross tabulation.
6
Here are a few of the many things I don't understand:
1) Why do so many pollsters and Democrats assume that citizens who lack college educations are kinda stupid? American literature is rich with characters who never went to college but are wise from experience (look to Cather, Jewett, Twain, Steinbeck). Have all those Americans disappeared now that the prairie has been filled with suburbs?
2) Why in the world would any sensible, adult American, even the "downwardly mobile" white guy, trust the empty promises of a gilded, spoiled, empty, intellectually and personally bankrupt, vicious clown? They have surely met other boastful liars in their lives. Supervisors. General jerks. It's a mystery.
One foggy answer to both questions: America's just too big for all of us, and it's changing too fast (remember typewriters?), so tribalism is a comfort. It's delightful to be told which people we each can hate in accord with other members of our own group. At dinner parties. Donald Trump is a master, a magician, in exploiting and stirring ferocious tribalism.
But Democrats do it too. I hate Trump.
1) Why do so many pollsters and Democrats assume that citizens who lack college educations are kinda stupid? American literature is rich with characters who never went to college but are wise from experience (look to Cather, Jewett, Twain, Steinbeck). Have all those Americans disappeared now that the prairie has been filled with suburbs?
2) Why in the world would any sensible, adult American, even the "downwardly mobile" white guy, trust the empty promises of a gilded, spoiled, empty, intellectually and personally bankrupt, vicious clown? They have surely met other boastful liars in their lives. Supervisors. General jerks. It's a mystery.
One foggy answer to both questions: America's just too big for all of us, and it's changing too fast (remember typewriters?), so tribalism is a comfort. It's delightful to be told which people we each can hate in accord with other members of our own group. At dinner parties. Donald Trump is a master, a magician, in exploiting and stirring ferocious tribalism.
But Democrats do it too. I hate Trump.
20
Have you been to a Trump rally?
Trust me, they ain't Cather, Jewett, Twain or Steinbeck.
More like Larry the Cable Guy meets Ayn Rand.
Trust me, they ain't Cather, Jewett, Twain or Steinbeck.
More like Larry the Cable Guy meets Ayn Rand.
26
Deborah, let me address one of your questions. I don't think Democrats assume that people without college educations are kinda stupid. The people we think are kinda stupid are those who reflexively vote Republican despite decades of evidence that Republican policies are ineffective, ill considered and dangerous.
32
Fair point. Good point. I agree.
But then ... all the writers noted (especially Twain) knew long ago that the US is a fragmented, vicious, opportunistic, and yet weirdly generous nation. So what do we do next?
But then ... all the writers noted (especially Twain) knew long ago that the US is a fragmented, vicious, opportunistic, and yet weirdly generous nation. So what do we do next?
Someone said it, the "never have enoughers'."
11
I had a small business. My shop was located in a small, rural town that had lost all of their manufacturing. I was hiring workers at $15 an hour, starting pay, with health insurance. If workers rode their bike to work, they got a $1.50 an hour more, per hour. It was hard work, but not miserable. We were a screen printing business. Guess what? I could not find anyone to work. One local, white guy showed up and when I told him the wage, he said his parents made $25 an hour at the plant (that is no longer there) and he wanted at least that much, since screen printing was harder work that what his parents did, in the plant. Then, he gave me a host of contingencies, listing which days he could work, what his hours would be. Then, he asked for an advance on his paycheck, even though I hadn't hired him. I didn't hire him. Other white, local folks applied, but when they discovered the work would be repetitive and not exciting, they balked. Either that or they had obvious drug problems. One guy showed up totally stoned, smelling of weed. Latinos showed up. They applied and I hired them and they came when they said, and left when the day was done. They brought their families on Fridays, when we had company barbecues. When they came to work, they (gasp) worked their asses off. Somewhere in there I hired a white guy. He asked for his paycheck early on the first Friday and didn't come in on Monday. I fired him on Tuesday. Eventually, I sold my business.
131
I appreciate this story and can't help but respond. Recently I had a wood fence installed in my back yard. The two-member crew, a white father and his adult son, while very nice, seemed to have no desire to work, checking their phones every 15 minutes. I had to have them return to redo part of the fence as the craftsmanship was horrible and it didn't seem durable.
I compare this to a year ago when I had my garage floor epoxied. The floor was problematic with many cracks and lots of grinding was necessary. A crew of two Hispanic men, in their 50s, came and did an exceptional job in a 10 hour, dirty workday. They practically whistled while they worked. I couldn't be happier with the job.
Granted, this is anecdotal but I've had other similar experiences which seem to underscore this current condition of white entitlement.
I compare this to a year ago when I had my garage floor epoxied. The floor was problematic with many cracks and lots of grinding was necessary. A crew of two Hispanic men, in their 50s, came and did an exceptional job in a 10 hour, dirty workday. They practically whistled while they worked. I couldn't be happier with the job.
Granted, this is anecdotal but I've had other similar experiences which seem to underscore this current condition of white entitlement.
7
Have you read today's article here in NYT, Quest for a New Life Ends in a Tangle of Drug Ties? You sold your business. Are you now working for $15/hour since you couldn't find those who would? Perhaps society would be better off as self-employed craftsmen/professionals, rather than as employees who are aware that they are never going to become a capitalist oneself.
1
Have you read today's article in the NYT "Quest for a New Life Ends in a Tangle of Drug Ties? You sold your business. Are you now working for $15/hour? Perhaps societies would be better off if workers were self-employed craftsmen/professionals, rather than employees of corporations where the capitalist(s) take home most of the profit produced by the workers.
Meanwhile, our planet is experiencing its second record breaking year of heat in a row. Where is the coverage of what the candidates are saying about that? In a sane country that issue alone would be enough to sink Trump. Instead, we get yet another bullet fired by media into a corpse. Soon, the corpse will be all of us.
22
This should be required reading for Louis C. K. and every other Hillary supporter, now if the times would only admit that rural schools are truly underfunded when compared to inner city schools and Liberals might actually begin to understand what the working class is angry about.
But it is just easier to call them racist, a lot less work, right?
But it is just easier to call them racist, a lot less work, right?
9
We have been screaming that schools are underfunded for decades rightist but your GOP governors are deliberately underfunding schools because stupid people vote rightist.
"While it is not true to say that all conservatives are stupid, if you are stupid, you are a conservative".
Jon Stuart Mill
"While it is not true to say that all conservatives are stupid, if you are stupid, you are a conservative".
Jon Stuart Mill
14
True rural schools are often under funded. Who sets school funding levels? State and local officials. How do we fund schools? Often with just property tax. School funding change (not "reform," an over-used and useless word) should be the most important political issue today. Then we as a culture need to see education as valuable, which in many homes is not the case. Here in Texas, some GOP politicians wanted to prevent schools from teaching critical thinking.
10
My parents lived through the great depression. They never took out a loan in their lives. When they bought a lawn chair it lasted forever. They only bought once. Contrast that with buying bottles of water today and having credit card debt. Success is mostly a matter of life style. Voters shouldn't fall for Trump's get rich quick sales pitch. The older generation believed that a penny saved is a penny earned. They lived solid lives.
12
Trump does not address their concerns, he merely resonates them and so appeals to those who cannot tell the difference and who enjoy the sound of their own opinions.
23
I have to admit that I am one of the downwardly mobile, and my kids even moreso. I'm more educated than my parents and grand-parents. But rather than going for Trump, I lay the blame partly at myself, my occupation, and a large share at corporate America. The latter, in its pursuit of profit, has made life more precarious for many.
A good chunk of reform has to come in employee rights, which in the USA are rather weak. But to enact any such legislation will require fixing campaign finance, which is this country's number one problem. Trump isn't going to help anyone but himself, his family, and his kind.
A good chunk of reform has to come in employee rights, which in the USA are rather weak. But to enact any such legislation will require fixing campaign finance, which is this country's number one problem. Trump isn't going to help anyone but himself, his family, and his kind.
72
I have been wondering where the unions have been in all this.
4
The author doesn't understand the ... "seemingly surprising finding: Support for Mr. Trump wasn’t strongly related to income and employment. In fact, among whites with similar educational levels, those who held favorable views of Mr. Trump had higher incomes and were no more likely to be out of the work force than those who held unfavorable views of him."
Why is it surprising that the 1 %, who stand to benefit from Trump's plans for the rich, should vote for anyone else? He has promised to slash top rate taxes, introduce protectionism and raise Supply Side Economics to extreme levels. The 'Me Generation', the ones who don't give a hoot about the nation's future, clearly like the theories espoused by this carnival barker.
Why is it surprising that the 1 %, who stand to benefit from Trump's plans for the rich, should vote for anyone else? He has promised to slash top rate taxes, introduce protectionism and raise Supply Side Economics to extreme levels. The 'Me Generation', the ones who don't give a hoot about the nation's future, clearly like the theories espoused by this carnival barker.
20
And isn't it sad that nothing Trump offers would actually improve his supporters' situation!
27
It might help if Hillary would actually say something she will do to improve the country, rather than bloviate about Trump. That's the strategy, apparently instead of actually addressing problems and solutions.
Oh, by the way, she won't sit for a news conference, unfettered by aides and teleprompters. Her supporters seem to be salved by slick ads, not the truth. You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!
Oh, by the way, she won't sit for a news conference, unfettered by aides and teleprompters. Her supporters seem to be salved by slick ads, not the truth. You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!
4
Go to her website and read all of the things she proposes...
6
In a nutshell they are people who "believe" they aren't doing well.
And don't forget the racism. It's there too.
And don't forget the racism. It's there too.
13
So, residents of run down mobile home parks are "doing well", are they? Because that's where I have seen the most Trump yard signs.
4
"No other candidate in this race has addressed the concerns of downwardly mobile working-class whites so directly." The other candidate being - Hillary Clinton? Oh, I get it, Cherlin also is including the failed GOP and Democrat primary candidates too. This is simply another in the daily spiel of irrelevant and distorted "news" aimed at Trump in support of HRC.
Why, for example, the much more significant and pertinent real "today's news" of the obvious 'pay for play" scandal which ran concurrent with Clinton's State Dept. service. Nothing on the NYtimes' front page - yet, this scandal, properly vetted, could destroy her campaign. This is big - very big; and yet - nothing, no mention.
The blinders HRC supporters have fixed on their eyes have made them oblivious to the clearly unethical - nee, crooked - Clinton State Dept.. Now, from the newly released emails, it's clear why Hillary set up her own authorized server in a closet. It was used to hide all the "pay for play" fund raising messaging between "donors" and the interactions they were requesting by the State Dept..
Doesn't anyone care how the Clintons went from "nearly broke" to "really rich" while HRC served at State? I see - it was just Clinton Foundation fund raising and not worthily treated as "news."
Why, for example, the much more significant and pertinent real "today's news" of the obvious 'pay for play" scandal which ran concurrent with Clinton's State Dept. service. Nothing on the NYtimes' front page - yet, this scandal, properly vetted, could destroy her campaign. This is big - very big; and yet - nothing, no mention.
The blinders HRC supporters have fixed on their eyes have made them oblivious to the clearly unethical - nee, crooked - Clinton State Dept.. Now, from the newly released emails, it's clear why Hillary set up her own authorized server in a closet. It was used to hide all the "pay for play" fund raising messaging between "donors" and the interactions they were requesting by the State Dept..
Doesn't anyone care how the Clintons went from "nearly broke" to "really rich" while HRC served at State? I see - it was just Clinton Foundation fund raising and not worthily treated as "news."
7
I completely understand that the economically disillusioned want change. Unfortunately, the change they want will likely not be found within the Republican Party - and especially in a bankruptcy queen with convictions flimsier than a sheet of tissue paper.
Remember that wall that Drumpf was going to build? The wall is apparently no more. And it's not even Labor Day.
These voters needed a populist President with a vision far greater than that of him (or her) sitting in the President's chair in the Oval Office, and enjoying whatever perks came with the job. They would have honestly been better served voting for Sanders.
Hillary is not perfect, but she's a lot closer to being that kind of leader than Drumpf. He brings literally nothing to the table. Nothing.
I couldn't believe my eyes and ears last night, when I turned on Lawrence O'Donnell's show on MSNBC and watched Glen Beck - Glen Beck, of all people - throwing Drumpf under the bus.
We have serious structural problems with our economy that need to be addressed. But if you're enthusiastically voting for Drumpf in November, I'd suggest that your real problem lies much closer to home...
Remember that wall that Drumpf was going to build? The wall is apparently no more. And it's not even Labor Day.
These voters needed a populist President with a vision far greater than that of him (or her) sitting in the President's chair in the Oval Office, and enjoying whatever perks came with the job. They would have honestly been better served voting for Sanders.
Hillary is not perfect, but she's a lot closer to being that kind of leader than Drumpf. He brings literally nothing to the table. Nothing.
I couldn't believe my eyes and ears last night, when I turned on Lawrence O'Donnell's show on MSNBC and watched Glen Beck - Glen Beck, of all people - throwing Drumpf under the bus.
We have serious structural problems with our economy that need to be addressed. But if you're enthusiastically voting for Drumpf in November, I'd suggest that your real problem lies much closer to home...
27
The irony in all this is that these folks who feel downwardly mobile (even if not publicly labeling themselves as such) have authored too much of their own demise. Since the Moral Majority they have engaged in an orgy of anger and resentment which is childlishly indulgent but accomplishes nothing. Not able to put aside anger to vote rationally, they vote for visceral appeal without often the slightest consideration of policy and past performance.
On the other hand I used to criticize the Democrats for not reclaiming this group with a populist economic message. But then the party was dominated by the Clinton wing. People like Rubin and Summers were determining economic policy by promoting Wall Street. Bill himself worked with Phil and Wendy Gramm to sign off on Glass Steagall. They promoted trade policies that destroyed organized labor. The truth was that the Democrats betrayed their own name by pursuing what the GOP had the earlier advantage in: campaign cash from elites. I wonder how much a night in the Lincoln bedroom will cost next year?
On the other hand I used to criticize the Democrats for not reclaiming this group with a populist economic message. But then the party was dominated by the Clinton wing. People like Rubin and Summers were determining economic policy by promoting Wall Street. Bill himself worked with Phil and Wendy Gramm to sign off on Glass Steagall. They promoted trade policies that destroyed organized labor. The truth was that the Democrats betrayed their own name by pursuing what the GOP had the earlier advantage in: campaign cash from elites. I wonder how much a night in the Lincoln bedroom will cost next year?
4
This is a perceptive article that adds nuance to the economics versus racism argument. I do not support Trump, but I would imagine most Americans living in the reality outside the gilded bubble have noticed how the respect with which we are treated by major institutions has gone down the drain. If you have a complaint about an airline ticket, your call is likely to be routed to India and if you can get up the chain of command, you are likely to be blown off rudely with "this is what you paid for," not "how can we fix it?" In disputes over health care bills, one can be lied to, left on hold, hung up on and treated arrogantly, not to mention sued. Government can refuse you routine service if you don't have a pile of IDs and be rude about it. Across the board, worker rights, such as to a 40 hour work week, seem to have been abandoned and if you don't like what you get, well too bad. We watch our children as colleges give out loans like candy, not as a last resort. We are anxious that we are being treated as so much waste matter, not citizens of a democracy with rights and dignity. It is not lost on me that German humiliation fueled Hitler's rise as did the almost insane desire of the ruling elite to shake out social benefits like retirement and monopolize the shrinking job openings for their own children, regardless of human suffering. History, as someone said, might not repeat itself, but it does rhyme. I hope this time our elites won't take us all down.
16
Why this overwhelming flood of articles against Trump from every possible perspective as if we are dealing with some sort of dread disease? How about a profile of the typical Clinton voter who is willing to overlook her lies and lack of success with her policies as an office holder? It appears that the MSM has a great fear that their chosen candidate will be defeated by someone they and the other globalist elites can't control.
8
Do you actually believe that Donald Trump is capable of leading our country into anything other than disaster?
18
Do you actually believe that Hillary Clinton is capable of leading our country into anything other than disaster? She accomplished that with her foreign policy moves so far - e.g. Libya, Russian reset, not to mention her vote in support of the Iraq invasion. Domestically her underhanded attempts as first lady, an unelected position, to push through Hillary-care is another example of her assuming authority she doesn't have.
2
Great medical diagnosticians observe a patient's signs and symptoms, arrive at a conclusion for their cause, then prescribe an action, or series of actions, for their remedy. Unfortunately these skills have not well transferred to the political class as they diagnose the country's ills and propose ridiculous remedies that are unfortunately accepted by a naïve voting public.
Walls, coal, steel, closed borders, are not going to bring back the America of opportunity reserved for the young white males of the 1950's and 1960's and a political promise to do so is a nasty lie.
The discrepancy between past and future progress is multi-factorial, but the primary cause resides in the de-evolution of a tax code that better rewards making money from money (the financial institution and their arcanely traded instruments) than making money from creating goods and services, ergo employment.
Unfortunately the 'downwardly mobile' are politically discouraged from understanding the tax (dis)incentive phenomenon due to a barrage of misleading propaganda. If the downwardly mobile really understood the cause of their plight i.e., micro and macro inequitable taxation, they would revolt against those in government who kowtow to the real puppet masters whose interest is to 'rig the system' in their tax-advantageous favor. Did I just write that the system is rigged?
Walls, coal, steel, closed borders, are not going to bring back the America of opportunity reserved for the young white males of the 1950's and 1960's and a political promise to do so is a nasty lie.
The discrepancy between past and future progress is multi-factorial, but the primary cause resides in the de-evolution of a tax code that better rewards making money from money (the financial institution and their arcanely traded instruments) than making money from creating goods and services, ergo employment.
Unfortunately the 'downwardly mobile' are politically discouraged from understanding the tax (dis)incentive phenomenon due to a barrage of misleading propaganda. If the downwardly mobile really understood the cause of their plight i.e., micro and macro inequitable taxation, they would revolt against those in government who kowtow to the real puppet masters whose interest is to 'rig the system' in their tax-advantageous favor. Did I just write that the system is rigged?
7
Professor Cherlin makes a lot of sense given the fact that the extreme right regards the middle twentieth century, when whites in America were very upwardly mobile, as a prime time of American history. Of course, educated but downwardly mobile Trump supporters are only hearing the lies that Trump is yelling, instead of researching the reality that he cannot accomplish what he is claiming. If these Trump supporters are indeed educated, then they are capable of that research.
8
All the so-called "downward mobile" groups mentioned in the article and readers comments also share one other commonality- their self-diagnosed condition is 'someone else's' fault. If it's not trade deals it's automation or immigration or Wall Street or anything that does not include any self-examination or action. How about getting the high-school education, or relocating to where jobs are, or learning new skills? How about the good old American attribute of taking responsibility for oneself and how one feels rather then playing the blame game and wallowing in one's own 'pity-pot'? Grow up America! Buggy-whips are no longer wanted by the market place, nor is under-educated labour, nor coal, nor strong-backs with weak minds. The only thing in this life that remains constant is change and if you try to stand in its way all you get is crushed- or Trump!
7
Well, maybe if the U.S. actually enforced immigration law (like Canada does) there wouldn't be a candidate like Trump who is resonating with voters.
Yes, it is trade deals and the greed of Wall Street, along with massive amounts of legal and illegal immigration that is contributing to stagnant wages.
Maybe you should grow up and find some empathy for working and middle classes?
Yes, it is trade deals and the greed of Wall Street, along with massive amounts of legal and illegal immigration that is contributing to stagnant wages.
Maybe you should grow up and find some empathy for working and middle classes?
1
Wonderful. Now that you have identified who his supporters are, can you now tell us what they see in this charlatan, or the party he represents, that would explain their support. People keep telling me that Trump supporters have legitimate reasons for feeling the way they do and we would be remiss in to take their anxieties lightly But all I can see is an angry man yelling at an equally angry crowd chanting lock her up" and "build that wall". what do conspiracy theories about the president (birtherism, he founded ISIS) have to do with economic anxiety. The true motivation for Trump's support seems always out of reach for social psychologists who always seem to start with the premise that there must be a logical reason for this hatred because people don't hate others without a reason, but, may I posit a differrant scenario, and say these people are just hateful to start no matter what the reason and they find companionship with like minded haters who listen to hate radio and hate news all day and then tell pollsters that they hate others, because others treat them poorly. You don't need to be a sociologist to know what's going on. Haters are going to hate, hate, hate. Even Pop Stars know that.
18
One has to wonder, too, if being "downwardly mobile" is partly an illusion. The world has changed a lot in a generation or two. The middle class life style once required buying a house (smaller houses and much smaller furniture were ubiquitous). As money allowed a TV & washer were added. In my childhood, most wash was hung on clothes lines, which, though they very occasionally broke were cheap to purchase and maintain (far cheaper than a dryer). The phone bill was kept low by making only the rare "long distance" call (Mother's Day, death in the family). There was no cable TV, internet, cell phone bill. Expensive items like cell phones, computers etc., did not exist. The point is that in order to have what now passes for a middle class lifestyle one needs far more in resources even adjusting for inflation.
Especially in the last 25 years of so, life in the modern world has gotten far more expensive; things that were once considered luxury items are now considered necessities by many. The small and simple house many grew up in now seems like deprivation - indeed to some extent it would be. While pay has risen, it has not risen to match the great increase in costs which increases in technology have created.
Especially in the last 25 years of so, life in the modern world has gotten far more expensive; things that were once considered luxury items are now considered necessities by many. The small and simple house many grew up in now seems like deprivation - indeed to some extent it would be. While pay has risen, it has not risen to match the great increase in costs which increases in technology have created.
158
I feel you have made a very important point here.
1
Let me add to this: In four big areas relating to security and stability, we've gone massively downwards:
- Healthcare: Insurance is often not provided by employers and is increasingly expensive. Even with the ACA, the high deductibles can block the ability of someone with a modest income to get medical treatment.
- Higher eduction: College, the main route to advancement, has also become unaffordable for some.
- Housing: Those small homes are often no longer available, or are now in declining neighborhoods. The average home price is NOT in line with the average income, or even remotely so.
- Retirement: Pensions have mostly disappeared for those in the private sector. We're supposed to have been saving all along; and for some of us who did, those savings vanished either in 2008 or in a medical or other emergency. Retirement is no longer secure.
Perhaps the reason so many people indulge in things like cell phones and big-screen TVs is that they can see that no amount of savings will protect them in these major categories. Costs are now so far out of line that being measured and careful simply doesn't add up to what's needed in any of these major categories.
- Healthcare: Insurance is often not provided by employers and is increasingly expensive. Even with the ACA, the high deductibles can block the ability of someone with a modest income to get medical treatment.
- Higher eduction: College, the main route to advancement, has also become unaffordable for some.
- Housing: Those small homes are often no longer available, or are now in declining neighborhoods. The average home price is NOT in line with the average income, or even remotely so.
- Retirement: Pensions have mostly disappeared for those in the private sector. We're supposed to have been saving all along; and for some of us who did, those savings vanished either in 2008 or in a medical or other emergency. Retirement is no longer secure.
Perhaps the reason so many people indulge in things like cell phones and big-screen TVs is that they can see that no amount of savings will protect them in these major categories. Costs are now so far out of line that being measured and careful simply doesn't add up to what's needed in any of these major categories.
2
Anne-Marie: you brought back memories of my early married life. My husband and I were married in 1960 and a clothes dryer was wishful thinking. Same for a dishwasher! The clothesline was fine, even in winter in upstate NY. Thawing the sheets and towels over the register was common. Three or four channels on television, books to read, children to read to: we did not think we were deprived! Thanks for the reminders.
So, the premise is that working class whites who are still employed but see themselves as never getting ahead are the biggest Trump supporters? Would that be in addition to, or instead of, the clichéd displaced--eg, unemployed--worker?
For sake of argument, I assume it's both. And yet, as I see how Trump has exerted his hold over those whose faith in upward mobility has vanished, I still keep asking myself: what on earth is he promising these people in terms of economic opportunities?
I guess logic plays little when it comes to the emotional impact of downward mobility, and I guess Trump's particular 'charm' holds sway when words and policies really don't. When you assess Trump's economic plans, the benefits he's promising will shower forth for America largely affect the upper classes.
He doesn't have a viable economic plan, period. Even the official platform, assessed by economists, is acknowledged to be a potpourri of proposals, sometimes contradictory, all of which combine to creating huge deficits. When he speaks of jobs, it's always in the platitudes of unleashed wealth from lower corporate taxes. He talks about infrastructure, but that doesn't square with his tax cuts.
All in all, Trump is proposing some of the same things Clinton is--a better life for the un- and under-employed--without showing how he'd pay for it (which she has).
To me, it's economic smoke and mirrors, and typical of the wild, non-reality based promises Trump shouts about.
For sake of argument, I assume it's both. And yet, as I see how Trump has exerted his hold over those whose faith in upward mobility has vanished, I still keep asking myself: what on earth is he promising these people in terms of economic opportunities?
I guess logic plays little when it comes to the emotional impact of downward mobility, and I guess Trump's particular 'charm' holds sway when words and policies really don't. When you assess Trump's economic plans, the benefits he's promising will shower forth for America largely affect the upper classes.
He doesn't have a viable economic plan, period. Even the official platform, assessed by economists, is acknowledged to be a potpourri of proposals, sometimes contradictory, all of which combine to creating huge deficits. When he speaks of jobs, it's always in the platitudes of unleashed wealth from lower corporate taxes. He talks about infrastructure, but that doesn't square with his tax cuts.
All in all, Trump is proposing some of the same things Clinton is--a better life for the un- and under-employed--without showing how he'd pay for it (which she has).
To me, it's economic smoke and mirrors, and typical of the wild, non-reality based promises Trump shouts about.
72
But Trump is doing something Clinton isn't doing: Expressing loud anger, and promising to hurt "them:" throw them out, block them from coming, punch them in the face, send them out on stretchers, torture them, etc. Angry, seething folks who feel superior but victimized and want to hurt somebody (somebody not like "us") get that message. They don't analyze economic policies.
14
@Christine
Trump's charm has captured the imagination for downwardly mobile Whites much as Democrats' charms have beguiled Blacks for decades. As generation follows generation into poverty, one can only hope we collectively derive a better strategy to help 10% of our citizens known as Blacks, and it won't be found in Progressive policy manuals. Not in the racist South. Not in the Progressive cities.
Trump's charm has captured the imagination for downwardly mobile Whites much as Democrats' charms have beguiled Blacks for decades. As generation follows generation into poverty, one can only hope we collectively derive a better strategy to help 10% of our citizens known as Blacks, and it won't be found in Progressive policy manuals. Not in the racist South. Not in the Progressive cities.
4
The simple answer is that Trump supporters believe Trump will pull down those people his supporters perceive to have have benefited from the social and economic changes made since the 1960s (Elites, city folks, educated folks, minorities, left-coast and east-coast liberals). That is the message Trump sends. Such a message requires no substance, only threats and innuendo. It is why his recent attempts to reach out to minority voters feels so forced; it is contrary to the basic theme of his candidacy.
7
I would love to see a study that compares voting preference relative to early success in school. Our sense of self worth is strongly influenced by our early years when we are involved in our elementary education. If one is a fast learner in our educational structure we gain self esteem and confidence that we can succeed in the world. If certain impediments restrict our ability to excel, confidence and self esteem can be permanently damaged.
There could be no greater champion of the academically challenged than Donald Trump.
There could be no greater champion of the academically challenged than Donald Trump.
32
You may be on to something here. I have had a very wide range of jobs in my life, from farm work to a factory line to working in a mall/office/restaurant to teaching at a college/university. But I have always felt that I could make a change, given that I am smart, educated, and hard working (and that has been proved true so far). I could roll with the punches and change with the changes. If I felt that I knew only one thing or could only do one thing, I too would be panicked with changes in my environment instead of feeling confident I could handle them. And I would be looking for someone to save me.
9
Alan, your comment is so true, it describes my early school experience perfectly. I was a low achiever.
Trump has made a living, a rather nice living, on scooping up undervalued properties. He's doing the same thing now. He's scooping up undervalued Americans -- the beaten down, the forgotten, the people who have been left behind. Yes, it used to be buildings and hotels and resorts and homes that fell into disrepair or lost their cache. Now it's people. Trump is an opportunist (or less politely a vulture) who finds opportunity in despair. He used distressed properties to get rich. Now he's using distressed people to get elected. And anybody who thinks he's doing this to help anybody but Donald Trump is a fool.
412
From the news coming out about how much he is paying his own business for his campaign, I think he still using the distressed to get rich. What was the figure from earlier in the week? 400% increase on the rent of his Manhattan campaign office? If he can't win, at least he can get rich from it, right?
14
If he was looking to scoop up undervalued Americans he would be appealing to Blacks, Hispanics, Women. What he has done is stage a hostile takeover of an intellectually and morally bankrupt political party by pandering to its angriest and basest element.
12
Thank you, well said.
3
When I look at the pictures of people at Trump rallies, the "downwardly mobile" as described here appear and dress, for the most part, as if they are comfortable economically. They earn a living, just not the kind that delivers the incomes that they had forecast for themselves. May I suggest that the group also includes those "senior" parents who don't see their children or themselves doing as well as they did while working.
They all ignore one element that has caused their disaffection - their lack of discernment that the American economy has greatly changed and that they didn't change with it. May I also suggest that they participated in their own self-destruction. The consumers among them who always went to Walmart or bought the cheapest cars or moved to "right to work" states with cheaper costs of living etc. actually sent their own jobs overseas or to the cheapest common denominators! They hoped to get rich by buying cheap and living high. They made a terrible mistake.
They all ignore one element that has caused their disaffection - their lack of discernment that the American economy has greatly changed and that they didn't change with it. May I also suggest that they participated in their own self-destruction. The consumers among them who always went to Walmart or bought the cheapest cars or moved to "right to work" states with cheaper costs of living etc. actually sent their own jobs overseas or to the cheapest common denominators! They hoped to get rich by buying cheap and living high. They made a terrible mistake.
300
1. They probably stayed where they are instead of moving. 2. Walmart wipes out all other choices once you let one open in your town. 3. Even dummies who don't learn to code vote and need to eat. An explanation is not an excuse. We still need to lift all Americans however stupid Times commenters think they are.
6
They purchased only what they could afford and went where the only jobs offered to them where. Why do exploiters always denigrate those they exploit?
5
We get what we pay for, don't we??
3
"No other candidate in this race has addressed the concerns of downwardly mobile working-class whites so directly."
The idea of "concerns" reflects rationality, but the Trump lovers could hardly be considered rational.
Their behavior at Trump's rallies belie any claim to rationality. They go wild for every rancid notion thrown out to them. They jeer and applaud any protester being manhandled. They sneer at the camera, blood streaming from their mouths. "Build a wall!"
No professor, it's not the quaint anxiety for their children's future that animates Trump's people. It the blood lust of the mob in search of a lynching, and you better hope they don't get you in their sight.
Besides immigrants, minorities, and Democrats, Trumps' enablers also hate "intellectuals" rationalizing away their proud bigotry.
The idea of "concerns" reflects rationality, but the Trump lovers could hardly be considered rational.
Their behavior at Trump's rallies belie any claim to rationality. They go wild for every rancid notion thrown out to them. They jeer and applaud any protester being manhandled. They sneer at the camera, blood streaming from their mouths. "Build a wall!"
No professor, it's not the quaint anxiety for their children's future that animates Trump's people. It the blood lust of the mob in search of a lynching, and you better hope they don't get you in their sight.
Besides immigrants, minorities, and Democrats, Trumps' enablers also hate "intellectuals" rationalizing away their proud bigotry.
241
I guess it is hard for some to admit that we have so many bigots amongst us, especially when it may include friends and family. So Cherlin seeks to give them an excuse, an easy out. Yes, they may behave nice with the minority neighbor when they are one on one. But when they feel empowered in a mob, then they are vicious, and they show their true selves.
3
A better opening question - "How many more times are we going to harrumph about Donald Trump before we realize it will have the same effect as our previous 1000 or so attempts?"
These elitist criticisms of Trump are like shooting bullets at a super-villian, they just make him stronger.
Instead of all of the harrumphing, you could have kept it sweet and simple - Why does a significant majority of Americans believe the country has been doing badly in the last 8 years?
1. The stock market is breaking records
2. The housing market is back to pre-crash levels.
Okay, those indicate confidence of the investor "class", but not the real citizenry.
3. American automakers have been selling record numbers of cars and pickup trucks. That is Main Street economic activity.
4. Ticket sales for movies, theater, airlines, sporting events, theme parks, etc are at record levels. Ditto.
5. US companies are leading in tech innovation - Tesla, SpaceX, Uber(?), etc
6. US won more Olympic Gold, Silver and Bronze medals than any other country.
So why all the pessimism? What are people expecting better than all of this? What do they think Trump can do for them? And how?
Also list the issues where we are doing badly, and who is driving it in the Congress? List each Congressman and Senator and list their contributors vs their legislating record.
So much you could do, instead you offer more tut-tutting about the poor white Americans who simply do not get it. Well, you rich whites don't either.
These elitist criticisms of Trump are like shooting bullets at a super-villian, they just make him stronger.
Instead of all of the harrumphing, you could have kept it sweet and simple - Why does a significant majority of Americans believe the country has been doing badly in the last 8 years?
1. The stock market is breaking records
2. The housing market is back to pre-crash levels.
Okay, those indicate confidence of the investor "class", but not the real citizenry.
3. American automakers have been selling record numbers of cars and pickup trucks. That is Main Street economic activity.
4. Ticket sales for movies, theater, airlines, sporting events, theme parks, etc are at record levels. Ditto.
5. US companies are leading in tech innovation - Tesla, SpaceX, Uber(?), etc
6. US won more Olympic Gold, Silver and Bronze medals than any other country.
So why all the pessimism? What are people expecting better than all of this? What do they think Trump can do for them? And how?
Also list the issues where we are doing badly, and who is driving it in the Congress? List each Congressman and Senator and list their contributors vs their legislating record.
So much you could do, instead you offer more tut-tutting about the poor white Americans who simply do not get it. Well, you rich whites don't either.
164
"So why all the pessimism? "
Obviously this is the result of GOP propaganda spouted
from day one of Obama's presidency.
Obviously this is the result of GOP propaganda spouted
from day one of Obama's presidency.
8
Why so much pessimism you ask? It's pretty simple. After the disaster that was the Bush years, the GOP shifted into blame and projection mode. Blame the Democrats - first Bill Clinton then Barack Obama - and project their failures on others. Thru obstruction and outright hatred of both the President and the American people, the GOP has created a massive atmosphere of pessimism. And worse, and to their discredit, the media has reported it without comment, vetting or fact checking for 8 long years.
12
The stock market and housing prices are in an unsustainable bubble -- and the last time that happened was under BUSH in 2006.
How'd that turn out?
Of course, Bush was gone in time to not have to deal with the aftermath. Obama will be gone, off golfing in Hawaii, by the time this whole thing implodes.
If you were around in 2006....we still had problems, many of the SAME problems, as today. And when people complained (on both sides of the aisle), we were told "but things are basically OK -- see how high the stock market is? And real estate is going up and up!" Those things could never happen when times are bad, right? They could never be based on speculation or investment or rent seeking or foreign investors ... right?
How'd that turn out?
Of course, Bush was gone in time to not have to deal with the aftermath. Obama will be gone, off golfing in Hawaii, by the time this whole thing implodes.
If you were around in 2006....we still had problems, many of the SAME problems, as today. And when people complained (on both sides of the aisle), we were told "but things are basically OK -- see how high the stock market is? And real estate is going up and up!" Those things could never happen when times are bad, right? They could never be based on speculation or investment or rent seeking or foreign investors ... right?
2
All of the economic analyses miss the point. The Trump alliance is about fear of and hostility toward the "Other," meaning immigrants, Hispanics, African-Americans, LGBTQ, and so-called political correctness in general. It is about abortion. It is about guns. It is about domestic and foreign policy that it sees as inimical to Christians while sowing chaos in the Middle East. Only after that is it about economics. It is about the notion that we are no longer the country that sends Jimmy Stewart to Washington and John Wayne to war.
Until voters are made to understand the truly reactionary nature of Trump's support, Trump's opponents, haunted by the demon of equivalencr propagated by the neutral media, will never be able to convince voters how dangerous his election would be.
Until voters are made to understand the truly reactionary nature of Trump's support, Trump's opponents, haunted by the demon of equivalencr propagated by the neutral media, will never be able to convince voters how dangerous his election would be.
38
Lack of education beyond high school is one key factor that this analysis fails to address among those who support Trump. Post WW II Americans could easily find work on labor intensive production lines where labor unions regularly enforced a higher standard of living with pension guarantees for non-college bound workers. Those with undergraduate degrees in education would often hear about factory workers whose annual take home pay and benefits far exceeded their college educated peers. Trump's empty claim to "make America great again" based on impossibly attainable physical walls and economic barriers resonants with those aging boomers and their undereducated adult children. Automation has displaced ninety-one percent of the manufacturing jobs in America, and the legacy of those massive shifts has deeply affected the standard of living and economic expectations of the high school graduate in America's work force. These are the passionate Trump supporters who believe he can roll back the clock, open up the obsolete factories, and put Americans back to work on the impossibly inefficient labor intensive assembly line...
82
I went to work for GM out of college with a degree in Computer Science from one of the premier schools in this country. I was making 49K a year which was amazing money for someone just starting out at that time.
The janitor who cleaned our office, who could hardly write his own name, made 70K a year with overtime. And he spent most of the day drunk sleeping in the plant. This is the problem with Unions run amok. I still believe in them. But I think the gov needs to keep an eye on the way they do business.
And I agree with you. These are indeed the followers of Trump.
The janitor who cleaned our office, who could hardly write his own name, made 70K a year with overtime. And he spent most of the day drunk sleeping in the plant. This is the problem with Unions run amok. I still believe in them. But I think the gov needs to keep an eye on the way they do business.
And I agree with you. These are indeed the followers of Trump.
7
I was one of those "overpaid" laborers, But only because you and those like you do not consider 6 years of apprenticeship to be "education". Why do I have the feeling that your opinion of the working class is just petty resentment that you don't have an income that clearly displays that you are better than I am?
10
Don't forget many that do 'graduate' from HS are functionally illiterate.
4
Knowing whether Trump's staunchest supporters are upwardly or downwardly mobile is interesting, I suppose, but the most relevant trait they all share is that they are downwardly educated.
If ever there were a case for teaching critical thinking in American high schools, Trump is its poster child (and I do mean child). Without the intellectual discipline one learns in college to observe and evaluate information rationally, a person is much more susceptible to biased, distorted, fact-free messages, and also to see themselves as disadvantaged. So it's no wonder Trump supporters are less educated, angry and willing to swallow whole-cloth fabrications without blinking.
If these people had been taught to think more clearly for themselves, it would be much less likely that an unhinged demagogue could become the next president of the United States. Unfolding before our eyes is the horrific result of teaching thought discipline only to those fortunate enough to go to college.
If ever there were a case for teaching critical thinking in American high schools, Trump is its poster child (and I do mean child). Without the intellectual discipline one learns in college to observe and evaluate information rationally, a person is much more susceptible to biased, distorted, fact-free messages, and also to see themselves as disadvantaged. So it's no wonder Trump supporters are less educated, angry and willing to swallow whole-cloth fabrications without blinking.
If these people had been taught to think more clearly for themselves, it would be much less likely that an unhinged demagogue could become the next president of the United States. Unfolding before our eyes is the horrific result of teaching thought discipline only to those fortunate enough to go to college.
92
Norris, while I agree with much of what you post, I disagree with you on a college education and critical thinking. Having this degree does not necessarily enable one to think critically. A lot depends on intelligence in general and what was studied in college. If all those who attended college studied a liberal arts course of study, they would have been exposed to music, art, philosophy, literature, language etc. and discussions on all of it. Most take a specific course of study which narrows their thinking. Critical thinking also comes from a curious mind. All of this, however, could also be learned at your local library, with guidance and natural curiosity and intelligence. Having a college degree does not necessarily make one "smart" or able to think critically.
2
I think the thrust of this piece on Donald Trump's apparent concern for whites who are on the economic slide dismisses the panic inherent in those who see him as not so much a financial bridge--however unrealistic--than as the man who represents what they see as national decline personified by their own cultural insecurities.
The less well-educated among Trump's legions were going to support him or Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio, or Carly Fiorina for that matter, because it's their way of protesting what they view, from a social standpoint, the coming death of themselves. These folks supported Mitt Romney in 2012 and John McCain in 2008 and the presidents Bush and Ronald Reagan, especially the latter, when they thought they were winning and Reagan buttressed their subliminal rancor with immigrants and others with his coded smirks. They took fright at President Obama because they foolishly thought he would take out black peoples' miserable history on them. That it never would have happened is inconsequential. Trump's rants reassure them.
More worrisome are the numbers of those whites with college degrees who agree with Trump's spear-point: the zero-sum of "more for someone else means less for yourself".
They return to Congress legislators who extended lazy, unproductive careers stalling President Obama on a huge jobs package to deal with the breaking-apart national infrastructure, jobs that cry out for both brains and brawn.
They fear the image they see in the distorted mirror.
The less well-educated among Trump's legions were going to support him or Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio, or Carly Fiorina for that matter, because it's their way of protesting what they view, from a social standpoint, the coming death of themselves. These folks supported Mitt Romney in 2012 and John McCain in 2008 and the presidents Bush and Ronald Reagan, especially the latter, when they thought they were winning and Reagan buttressed their subliminal rancor with immigrants and others with his coded smirks. They took fright at President Obama because they foolishly thought he would take out black peoples' miserable history on them. That it never would have happened is inconsequential. Trump's rants reassure them.
More worrisome are the numbers of those whites with college degrees who agree with Trump's spear-point: the zero-sum of "more for someone else means less for yourself".
They return to Congress legislators who extended lazy, unproductive careers stalling President Obama on a huge jobs package to deal with the breaking-apart national infrastructure, jobs that cry out for both brains and brawn.
They fear the image they see in the distorted mirror.
55
What a curious phenomenon to be cast as worthy of notice. When has the economic well-being of this nation NOT been a major factor in determining the viability of a presidential candidate? Did Reagan NOT destroy Carter in significant part by asking the question “Are you better off than you were four years ago?” How’d the answer to that question turn out for Carter?
While it’s taken almost EIGHT YEARS to come as far back as we have from the crash and the Great Recession (worst recovery since the Great Depression), it remains that millions of Americans remain uncertain of their economic futures, and it’s not just the “downwardly mobile” – it includes the young, mature office workers and regular laborers who see automation threatening.
The “downwardly mobile” is a demographic far larger than the author suggests. It’s much of America.
The disturbing state of an economy projected to grow at a measly 1% as far as the eye can see, two-pounds’ pressure from another recession, normally would be a decisive factor in propelling a candidate opposed to current policies into the Oval Office. What has primarily kept that from happening, so far, is Trump’s mouth. Of late, however, he has refrained from tirades against Mother Teresa, and his numbers are picking up in the polls while Mrs. Clinton’s lead dwindles.
The “downwardly mobile” have a lot of company, and many of them vote.
While it’s taken almost EIGHT YEARS to come as far back as we have from the crash and the Great Recession (worst recovery since the Great Depression), it remains that millions of Americans remain uncertain of their economic futures, and it’s not just the “downwardly mobile” – it includes the young, mature office workers and regular laborers who see automation threatening.
The “downwardly mobile” is a demographic far larger than the author suggests. It’s much of America.
The disturbing state of an economy projected to grow at a measly 1% as far as the eye can see, two-pounds’ pressure from another recession, normally would be a decisive factor in propelling a candidate opposed to current policies into the Oval Office. What has primarily kept that from happening, so far, is Trump’s mouth. Of late, however, he has refrained from tirades against Mother Teresa, and his numbers are picking up in the polls while Mrs. Clinton’s lead dwindles.
The “downwardly mobile” have a lot of company, and many of them vote.
12
@Luettgen
Mr. Cherlin has written a very cleaver piece that winks and slyly grins at the White population. The subtext, requiring little examination, is that "White privilege" is under attack; and why should we care? They will mean less in the future than they did in the past.
I can imagine writing such a piece about other large groups, but they are not of imminent concern to the Progressive mind. What is most important today are those groups that are increasing in relative numbers and finding those programs that can be delivered by the government as "compensation" for their permanent future voting loyalty.
If the Whites are performing "less well", no worries, their relative importance as voters will soon be eclipsed by blocs to whom we build a reciprocal bond of loyalty: your votes, our programs.
It is cynical. It is transparent. But it is the way a mind will work when it sees government as an occupation and source of power.
It does remind you of the Communist apparatchik. The difference is that Democrats deliver the programs under the mantle of democracy. If Citizens United is a way for people to "buy" influence in their government, what you have here is government using future programs to lock in a reciprocity for future voting support.
How the Blacks continue to commit their votes to Democrats is the curiosity demanding greater research, in light of the clear disconnect from their actual success under Democratic leadership.
Mr. Cherlin has written a very cleaver piece that winks and slyly grins at the White population. The subtext, requiring little examination, is that "White privilege" is under attack; and why should we care? They will mean less in the future than they did in the past.
I can imagine writing such a piece about other large groups, but they are not of imminent concern to the Progressive mind. What is most important today are those groups that are increasing in relative numbers and finding those programs that can be delivered by the government as "compensation" for their permanent future voting loyalty.
If the Whites are performing "less well", no worries, their relative importance as voters will soon be eclipsed by blocs to whom we build a reciprocal bond of loyalty: your votes, our programs.
It is cynical. It is transparent. But it is the way a mind will work when it sees government as an occupation and source of power.
It does remind you of the Communist apparatchik. The difference is that Democrats deliver the programs under the mantle of democracy. If Citizens United is a way for people to "buy" influence in their government, what you have here is government using future programs to lock in a reciprocity for future voting support.
How the Blacks continue to commit their votes to Democrats is the curiosity demanding greater research, in light of the clear disconnect from their actual success under Democratic leadership.
6
It's taken 8 years because the GOP has sat on it's hands and refused to help President Obama.
You used to know that, Richard.
You used to know that, Richard.
51
@Richard. Interesting choice of words to describe HRC's lead: "dwindling." That, when a poll from two days ago had her 12 points ahead nationally. And she's still got a commanding lead in very nearly every single one of the states where it really matters, the battlegrounds. In fact, she's even competitive in a number of formerly solid-red states, such as Georgia, Utah, and Arizona. Unthinkable. The real story of where things stand just before Labor Day is there for all to read at fivethirtyeight.com. At the moment, the averages of the polls in all 50 states reveals that she gets to 270 Electoral College without having to win either Florida *or* Ohio (although she's leading in both of those states at the moment, too). All the talk about how well Trump is doing right now is either wishful thinking or delusional "unskew-the-polls" nonsense by Trump supporters. That's not to say that things can't change between now and November 8, but they could just as easily change for the worse for The Donald. He is, after all, purporting to "soften" his xenophobia. How are the xenophobes and white nationalists who form the base of his support going to like that?
44
The downwardly mobile have been told that this is America, the land of opportunity, and upward mobility is possible for anybody who really tries. So there is something wrong with them that makes them downwardly mobile, and they should fix that. They often have evidence that this is not true, such as the large number of jobs moved offshore or automated out of existence or the 2008 meltdown, for which no one went to jail. But rarely is anyone at all honest about what is going on -- that the game is rigged so that, among other things, they do not get to win much at all.
Trump mixes in some honest statements along with his lies and inventions, and they give a special feeling that someone has at last said it. Sanders is also honest about growing income disparities and the corruption of money. Hillary has to talk this talk, too, if she is going to get any of them to listen to her.
Trump
Trump mixes in some honest statements along with his lies and inventions, and they give a special feeling that someone has at last said it. Sanders is also honest about growing income disparities and the corruption of money. Hillary has to talk this talk, too, if she is going to get any of them to listen to her.
Trump
12
Right. Got it.
Trump is going to jail the guys who cratered the economy in 2008, right?
Trump is going to bring back coal mining jobs, when fracked gas is cheap and in oversupply, coal mining is being automated, and nobody needs the extra coal anyway, right?
Trump is going to start manufacturing in A,Erica, when ALL of the goods sold under his brand are made outside the US, right?
Got it. I gather that what you say is "sarcasm."
Trump is going to jail the guys who cratered the economy in 2008, right?
Trump is going to bring back coal mining jobs, when fracked gas is cheap and in oversupply, coal mining is being automated, and nobody needs the extra coal anyway, right?
Trump is going to start manufacturing in A,Erica, when ALL of the goods sold under his brand are made outside the US, right?
Got it. I gather that what you say is "sarcasm."
10
Unions may support the Democratic Party, but the members are uniformly voting Republican.
Many ordinary working people believe that people just below them on the socio-economic scale are getting significant government benefits that their taxes are paying for. People working construction, cops, etc. are earning just a few thousand dollars too much to get food stamps, free school lunches, Medicaid, and many other transfer payments. They see others who are "not working" getting these handout. The impression that the "takers" are "people of color" only breeds more resentment against "them".
Anyone who thinks that the China trade, NAFTA, and other free trade agreements have benefited labor is living in a reality distortion zone. Illegal immigrants have put a floor on wages in the construction trades, landscaping, and restaurant work. Joe SixPack wants a fair shake.
Trump is the only candidate who is promising working people change for the better. Educated people who are capable of even the most rudimentary analysis understand the Trump is a complete fraud, but facts don't matter in an election. Trump's tax plan has unique elements layered on typical Republican proposals that are designed to particularly benefit him, but these elements are too complex for a sound byte.