I'm a 58 year old woman, in a 21 year marriage, which has had its fair share of ups and downs. So I know marriages aren't perfect. But I've remained faithful to my husband.
I've always been a 'live & let live' person, it's not my style to judge others - but I would be extremely uncomfortable to be the best friend of the philandering female.
This situation made me stop and think. If I considered the husband a friend, I would make sure he knows the truth. His wife is deliberately and repeatedly deceiving him and has no respect or real love for him. Would anyone want to find themself in this man's situation?
Simply put: 'Treat others as you would want to be treated yourself.'
There's no religious morality involved (I'm an atheist), just decency and common sense.
This man deserves to be loved and to have a happy life. He needs to know the truth.
I wouldn't worry about the woman. She's a narcissist and is no friend.
I've always been a 'live & let live' person, it's not my style to judge others - but I would be extremely uncomfortable to be the best friend of the philandering female.
This situation made me stop and think. If I considered the husband a friend, I would make sure he knows the truth. His wife is deliberately and repeatedly deceiving him and has no respect or real love for him. Would anyone want to find themself in this man's situation?
Simply put: 'Treat others as you would want to be treated yourself.'
There's no religious morality involved (I'm an atheist), just decency and common sense.
This man deserves to be loved and to have a happy life. He needs to know the truth.
I wouldn't worry about the woman. She's a narcissist and is no friend.
14
It seems Letter Writer #1 is just experiencing normal growing pains as young adults need to sort through the complexities of adult relationships for themselves. Some of our "best friends" from childhood or college will grow up to be people whose values we do not share - they cheat on their spouses and on their taxes, they are rude to waitstaff, they strike their children or pets, they become greedy, they become vegan...the list goes on. If the girlfriend is LW's "best friend" it should be easy enough to have a heart-to-heart and inform her that while you empathize (if, indeed, you do) with her ambivalence about being married, you do not respect her dishonest behavior, will not cover for her and don't wish to be an audience for her sexploits. If your friend makes $1 million dollars paying her workers minimum wage, you wouldn't consider picketing her factory to tell her workers they're being exploited, would you? The workers know - and so, on some level, does the betrayed husband. The bigger concern here is that you let yourself be drawn into a relationship where your friend doesn't know or respect your values and boundaries. This is really not about the husband and to tell or not tell; it's about you and how you will decide who becomes or remains your friend.
3
To the first writer: Your so-called friend is nothing of the sort. She's a narcissist of the first order, and she enjoys putting other people in uncomfortable or dangerous positions to get a reaction out of them. Since you seemingly didn't react to the provocation of her bringing her lover to your birthday party, I guarantee she will do something worse to you next time. (I hope you trust your own husband!)
Cut this woman out of your life today -- you will never regret it. And while normally I would advocate staying out of someone else's marriage -- you never really know what goes on between two people -- in this case, I would tell the husband everything and attempt to set him free as well.
Cut this woman out of your life today -- you will never regret it. And while normally I would advocate staying out of someone else's marriage -- you never really know what goes on between two people -- in this case, I would tell the husband everything and attempt to set him free as well.
39
The letter writer with the philandering friend is not really asking what her opinion or judgement should be, she's asking what she should do...I think that if she's uncomfortable in the relationship with her friend, she should remove herself from the relationship, saying that she is uncomfortable with the situation (her bringing her boyfriend to the writer's birthday party was a real test of the friendship; it would have been a perfect time to set a limit). And probably I'd leave the friend's husband out of it, because, in truth, you don't know what's going on there. Time to start choosing friends with similar values..."just sayin'"
14
This is such a terrific column. I look forward every week to reading Appiah's balanced, complex and empathetic opinions. The current ethics column is immensely superior to the one that preceded it, and I'm delighted that the Times realized its shallowness and brought in a trained philosopher to take it over. In an era when glamour and financial supremacy often seem to trump character (and I suppose I mean that unplanned pun), it's especially valuable to be able to read thoughtful questions and responses about everyday ethical issues on a weekly basis. I know the Times is constantly tinkering with its content and format to appeal to the largest audience, often with unfortunate results. I hope they see that many readers value the current magazine format (many issues and articles per week, not just one) and appreciate this column in particular. To Kwame Anthony Appiah: many thanks for your always subtle and thought-provoking commentary.
16
Young people probably don't understand the "rule" of not blabbing about infidelity to the affected spouse. However, as one ages, one learns that many good people engage in infidelity for a variety of reasons. Sometimes, it is even done with the unstated, but real, consent or knowledge (or relief) of the affected partner. As one ages, one learns that love and sex are often different things and that couples live, and are entitled to live, their lives with all sorts of complicated arrangements. Anyone who has been in a relationship for over 15 years can confirm that the relationship and the people in it, will change every few years. If the couple makes it through a prolonged period together, they likely have reached a tacit agreement on many things, including sex. Put another way, lifelong physical fidelity is not the only option. Sometimes one person's sexual drive is done earlier in life, but the couple still see each other as partners forever. Life is not a movie. Real life is not easy to judge. I agree with other commentators who note that the affected husband likely knows, or does not want to know, about his wife. But, regardless, one should stay out of it completely and avoid getting dragged in by being manipulated into accepting the lover's presence at parties, etc.
42
The cheating friend is being disloyal in many ways. One, of course is the cheating itself. Two, the possibility that she is giving her husband and STD. Three, denying him the possibility of real love. Four, making a total fool of him by telling other people of her serial infidelities. Don't believe for a minute that the letter writer is the only person she is talking to. If she is bringing lovers to parties, she is telling the world. Everyone knows except, possibly, the husband.
25
What a great quartet of clear-cut ethical conumdrums.
1) You call her a friend? She has betrayed everything she swore an oath to uphold and would throw you under the bus in a heartbeat. Her husband deserves better, but only you can weigh the value of telling him the truth vs. living her lies.
2) You are a cheat, a liar, and a thief. Period. And now everyone knows it.
3) To your brrother Ignorance is bliss. His choice. Wishing YOU ATB.
4) Your colleague is a predator preying on the naivete of his students. There is another "S" word for him that is unprintable but he probably knows it since he is one. Glad students can read this column so they are better informed.
1) You call her a friend? She has betrayed everything she swore an oath to uphold and would throw you under the bus in a heartbeat. Her husband deserves better, but only you can weigh the value of telling him the truth vs. living her lies.
2) You are a cheat, a liar, and a thief. Period. And now everyone knows it.
3) To your brrother Ignorance is bliss. His choice. Wishing YOU ATB.
4) Your colleague is a predator preying on the naivete of his students. There is another "S" word for him that is unprintable but he probably knows it since he is one. Glad students can read this column so they are better informed.
12
Re: the writer who opened up their articles, this seems false on many levels. Or at least it wouldn't help what they were proposing.
Websites that track page views always look at unique page views, this would dedupe out any one person opening page multiple times. Also, most articles are in hundreds or thousands of views for any relevance. A writer adding a dozen or so more page views will have no real effect on their standing.
Websites that track page views always look at unique page views, this would dedupe out any one person opening page multiple times. Also, most articles are in hundreds or thousands of views for any relevance. A writer adding a dozen or so more page views will have no real effect on their standing.
4
It is necessary to tell your "best friend" that her behavior is profoundly inconsistent with your set of values and that you cannot continue the friendship. She has an ethical obligation to choose between ending her marriage or telling her husband of her choice to subject him to risks of STD,etc. As importantly, her husband is owed an opportunity to find a committed spouse and not waste his life with this person. In the event, she does not act you should tell the husband of her actions
11
"Don't kiss and tell" was a cardinal rule when I was a teen, 60 years ago. It should still be something that people with sexual secrets observe. By not observing his caution, the straying spouse has compromised her friendship with the writer; the friendship is clearly broken and should be abandoned. But informing the betrayed husband could have unintended consequences, and could end that friendship as well. The unfaithful spouse is almost certainly concealing her behavior in therapy. Deliver the news to the therapist, a professional, who can then decide how to deal with the deception that he/she is also being subjected to.
10
Re: serial adultery
For your mental health, it is necessary to end the friendship.
Having said that, as a man who lived through something not quite this extreme, and knowing that the physical and mental health issues are not only not abstract but potentially dangerous, find a way to let this man know all is not well.
For your mental health, it is necessary to end the friendship.
Having said that, as a man who lived through something not quite this extreme, and knowing that the physical and mental health issues are not only not abstract but potentially dangerous, find a way to let this man know all is not well.
23
To the online writer: analytical traffic tracking sites only count 1 per IP, so your attempt to rack up more hits by opening more more tabs was futile.
10
Mm. Lots of ideas about other people's lives. As a veteran: stay out of other people's marriages. If the situation is--indeed--as described--the husband would need to be in such a state of denial not to know, that it is almost impossible to imagine that he does not know. If the writer feels implicated, then she should end the friendship. I find, in my increasingly live and let live state, however, a moment of judgement: It is not okay to allow a friend to bring a lover to a party when you know the husband, or wife. That makes you an accessory. Wow! I didn't think I had a vestige left!
31
I think it clarifies one's perspective a bit if you try to imagine the roles reversed: the husband a serial cheater on his wife.
Would you have the same reticence to rat on him if it was the wife who was brim cheated on? Then there's the HIV, STD issues which are huge. Inform him anonymously if you prefer, but the ethics of this seem clear.
I was approached by a colleague for extramarital sex, repeatedly. I'm single. She's married w kids and very good looking, hot bod etc. We went out for drinks a few times and kissed a bunch, but in the end I didn't feel comfortable inserting myself , no pun intended, into someone else's troubled marriage. There are plenty of other fish in the sea there's no need to create destructive intrigue and risks, just for a bit of tail. This whole scenario happened again with another colleague a year later and the result was the same. Marriage is a vow, and if you don't respect it you needn't sign up.
Would you have the same reticence to rat on him if it was the wife who was brim cheated on? Then there's the HIV, STD issues which are huge. Inform him anonymously if you prefer, but the ethics of this seem clear.
I was approached by a colleague for extramarital sex, repeatedly. I'm single. She's married w kids and very good looking, hot bod etc. We went out for drinks a few times and kissed a bunch, but in the end I didn't feel comfortable inserting myself , no pun intended, into someone else's troubled marriage. There are plenty of other fish in the sea there's no need to create destructive intrigue and risks, just for a bit of tail. This whole scenario happened again with another colleague a year later and the result was the same. Marriage is a vow, and if you don't respect it you needn't sign up.
37
Re: LW #1 - A lot of busybodies in these comments.
No children involved in this marriage, so MYOB.
No children involved in this marriage, so MYOB.
3
Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.
The cheating spouse is seeing multiple people and it cannot be assumed she is practicing safe sex. She is putting her husband at risk. For that alone, the friend should tell the cuckolded husband.
The cheating spouse is seeing multiple people and it cannot be assumed she is practicing safe sex. She is putting her husband at risk. For that alone, the friend should tell the cuckolded husband.
14
Then the "best friend" should keep her mouth shut about her infidelity. She doesn't deserve an ear.
1
Disagree!
By sharing this information about her cheating, the "friend" is using the writer to enable her behavior. So it is actually also harming the friend at some level.
Commenters have not pointed out that the cheater may want to be outed by the friend thereby having no responsibility for ending the marriage or addressing her fear of being alone. Bringing the guy to the birthday party certainly risked disclosure. Passive/aggressive behavior is quite common among some cheaters in my experience. Very toxic stuff. Ditch the friend, tell her husband.
Commenters have not pointed out that the cheater may want to be outed by the friend thereby having no responsibility for ending the marriage or addressing her fear of being alone. Bringing the guy to the birthday party certainly risked disclosure. Passive/aggressive behavior is quite common among some cheaters in my experience. Very toxic stuff. Ditch the friend, tell her husband.
27
Strident should be paid for all work. Stop the modern day slavery.
6
This is a tender area for me. My younger sister was murdered 26 years ago by her husband who has a 176 IQ and who has not yet been arrested. He was having multiple affairs but being a doctor, he hid it well as he had his girlfriends beep him on his beeper. My sister would have left him in a heartbeat if she knew he was cheating on her.
I know this is outcome is very rare, but I know of two people who knew about his affairs and I so wish someone would have taken the risk to tell her. If so, she would be alive today and her son, only 10 months old at the time of her death, would not have been so cruelly treated by his father and step-mother. In essence he has has taken a life and 1/2 of another one.
I know this is outcome is very rare, but I know of two people who knew about his affairs and I so wish someone would have taken the risk to tell her. If so, she would be alive today and her son, only 10 months old at the time of her death, would not have been so cruelly treated by his father and step-mother. In essence he has has taken a life and 1/2 of another one.
24
Why are you telling us his IQ?
10
For the friend of the cheating wife, the husband will face consequences both for her infidelity and for his knowing about it. If she knows the husband well enough, perhaps she can make a decision on how to handle the situation so that damage to him is minimized. Exposing the truth may be the best answer, or it may not.
I once had a good friend whom I later knew to be a serial cheater. We no longer have a relationship, as I found out his cheating was an extension of the way he treats other people in general.
I once had a good friend whom I later knew to be a serial cheater. We no longer have a relationship, as I found out his cheating was an extension of the way he treats other people in general.
21
LW1
As between holding on to a "best friend" who has shown herself to be someone with serious moral deficits and protecting a man this best friend is putting at serious risk of sexually transmitted disease and HIV, I think the ONLY ethical and moral thing to do is tell the husband.
As between holding on to a "best friend" who has shown herself to be someone with serious moral deficits and protecting a man this best friend is putting at serious risk of sexually transmitted disease and HIV, I think the ONLY ethical and moral thing to do is tell the husband.
27
To the "best" friend of the cheater. I've been around psychos like your friend before and I've learned a few things.
- Everyone is their"best" friend.
- When they tell you an intimate secret is not a secret.
- When they talk about cheating and you have a spouse it is there rounds about way of making it your decision to be in the dark about them sleeping with your spouse.
- They are usually bisexuality. That is why experienced homosexualls hate bisexuals with such a passion.
- They think they are living on the edge and are better and smarter than all of there sad friends whose lives they toy with but they are just taking a single-minded yes more path through life AKA path of least resistance. Which often means being raped is the start of many of their longest lasting relationships.
- Everyone is their"best" friend.
- When they tell you an intimate secret is not a secret.
- When they talk about cheating and you have a spouse it is there rounds about way of making it your decision to be in the dark about them sleeping with your spouse.
- They are usually bisexuality. That is why experienced homosexualls hate bisexuals with such a passion.
- They think they are living on the edge and are better and smarter than all of there sad friends whose lives they toy with but they are just taking a single-minded yes more path through life AKA path of least resistance. Which often means being raped is the start of many of their longest lasting relationships.
12
What!!!?
8
In a world where a person can die of having unprotected sex, where you are having sex with every person your partner has, it is imperative to be honest in these relationships. If one's spouse is secretly having sex with others, she is endangering her husband's health. He deserves to know the truth.
51
Re the graduate student working for free.
"Some faculty members have research grants that provide salaries for graduate-student assistance. "
If the faculty member has been given money as part of his/her research grant that is supposed to pay the salaries of research assistants, that faculty member is keeping the money under false pretenses. That sounds like fraud.
So what we really are talking about is greed. Very unethical and possibly illegal.
"Some faculty members have research grants that provide salaries for graduate-student assistance. "
If the faculty member has been given money as part of his/her research grant that is supposed to pay the salaries of research assistants, that faculty member is keeping the money under false pretenses. That sounds like fraud.
So what we really are talking about is greed. Very unethical and possibly illegal.
12
The colleague did not have a grant, that was partly the point.
14
To the friend of the cheater: Send the husband the link to this page so he can read your letter, The Ethicist's answer, and the comments. Let him decide for himself.
Don't put yourself in the position of listening to either of them any more. Too damaging to you, and you've done nothing wrong. Set yourself free from them.
Don't put yourself in the position of listening to either of them any more. Too damaging to you, and you've done nothing wrong. Set yourself free from them.
36
Well said. Why does she want to be around such toxic people?
12
Re: Two wrongs. Many sites now provide analytics that reveal reveal this kind of deception. And if the writer is logging in as a registered user, the analytics may even be providing a specific user name. Not much about our identities is truly private. So the real question is, do you open those extra tabs knowing that your actions may be completely obvious to the publisher?
8
Regarding the graduate student issue, I don't agree that it "isn't possible" for a student to do unpaid work in a way that is not exploiting them. The writer's colleague is telling the student at the outset that he will not pay her or him. The students are applying to work with the colleague, presumably of their own volition. There seems to be openness on both sides.
The writer's analogy of internships in advertising and fashion seem to be misguided. Graduate school is not the same as industry - it is the accepted norm for students to pay for the opportunity to attend.
Professors can, and do, exploit graduate students, and graduate students are often in vulnerable situations. But such situations occur regardless of whether the student is being paid or not.
The writer's perspective that unpaid work is unethical is understandable, and acting in accordance to that perspective is commendable. But that does not mean that the writer's perspective must be the rule for everyone, if the conditions are clearly stated and everyone is in agreement.
The writer's analogy of internships in advertising and fashion seem to be misguided. Graduate school is not the same as industry - it is the accepted norm for students to pay for the opportunity to attend.
Professors can, and do, exploit graduate students, and graduate students are often in vulnerable situations. But such situations occur regardless of whether the student is being paid or not.
The writer's perspective that unpaid work is unethical is understandable, and acting in accordance to that perspective is commendable. But that does not mean that the writer's perspective must be the rule for everyone, if the conditions are clearly stated and everyone is in agreement.
15
The pressures on graduate students and corporate interns to obtain meaningful positions with accomplished professionals make them vulnerable to many kinds of exploitation. Even if they might accept this abuse, they ought not be subjected to it. Appropriate standards for duties and compensation are needed to prevent the less ethical mentors from ignoring fairness when they offer these positions.
6
As a cuckold in a very similar situation, I can tell you unequivocally: Tell the husband. Getting through a year of Hepatitis C and HIV testing should start now.
There is no question you should tell the husband. The wife is abusing him in a very real sense. The term "sexual addiction" obscures the fact that she is 100% responsible for this dangerous behavior. If he chooses to try to reconcile (I strongly advise against it, she has little real respect for him) that's his choice.
I suspect she may also have a substance abuse problem. Thanks goodness they don't have children... yet.
There is no question you should tell the husband. The wife is abusing him in a very real sense. The term "sexual addiction" obscures the fact that she is 100% responsible for this dangerous behavior. If he chooses to try to reconcile (I strongly advise against it, she has little real respect for him) that's his choice.
I suspect she may also have a substance abuse problem. Thanks goodness they don't have children... yet.
89
STEER CLEAR Of getting in the middle of a situation that's likely to blow sky high at any moment! That's my 2 cents for what it's worth. The only exception that I would make is if the wife states that she's HIV+ and has not told the husband. In that case it's warning him about contracting a disease that is still sometimes lethal and shortens the lifespan.
8
I'm not sure there's enough information here. If there is, then it seems subjective, not objective. The writer calls her friend selfish; who is she to make that claim? Her friend has slept with 10 or so men in that many years. Does that make her a sex addict? Wouldn't hundreds of men be more like it? Never once is there an indication that the wife doesn't love her husband and, with all her infidelities, the marriage is still intact. What this couple needs is an honest discussion about both their needs both within and outside the marriage, including the possibility of an open marriage.
7
To S.B., re the "likely" Alzheimers diagnosis: please be sure to get second and third opinions. Confer with medical specialists, in addition to the (same?) clinical psychologist/therapist. Symptoms of many treatable conditions can mimic those of dementia, and surely, anxiety about increasing age (and the ApoE4 gene variant) can result in poor memory-test results.
14
cold comfort.
4
The letters from LW1 and SB share a similar trait. Each gives far too much weight to a confidence that is only implied.
LW1 talks about her friend confessing to affairs. She says nothing about confiding. Perhaps I'm parsing words, but I'm trying to picture this conversation. Was the cheating friend agonizing with guilt that she couldn't contain? Did she elicit a promise of secrecy? Did the LW ever tell her friend that wasn't comfortable being a party to deception? These details might shed some light on what her obligations to the friend and the husband.
As for SB, the brother said, over ten years ago, that he wouldn't want to know if he had the variant. He didn't say that SB should keep it a secret if SB had been tested or what the results were. SB chose to interpret his wishes not to know his fate with a wish to be kept totally in the dark.
Fair enough, but now they are both ten years older, ten years closer to the age when alzeimers becomes a concern to all, not just those with genetic markers. SB now not only knows the test results, there are now symptoms.
To tell this to the brother in no way violates his wishes. Did he say he wouldn't want to know if his sibling was experiencing dementia? Give him the information because he should have it. It then becomes his choice if he wants to explore genetic testing himself.
LW1 talks about her friend confessing to affairs. She says nothing about confiding. Perhaps I'm parsing words, but I'm trying to picture this conversation. Was the cheating friend agonizing with guilt that she couldn't contain? Did she elicit a promise of secrecy? Did the LW ever tell her friend that wasn't comfortable being a party to deception? These details might shed some light on what her obligations to the friend and the husband.
As for SB, the brother said, over ten years ago, that he wouldn't want to know if he had the variant. He didn't say that SB should keep it a secret if SB had been tested or what the results were. SB chose to interpret his wishes not to know his fate with a wish to be kept totally in the dark.
Fair enough, but now they are both ten years older, ten years closer to the age when alzeimers becomes a concern to all, not just those with genetic markers. SB now not only knows the test results, there are now symptoms.
To tell this to the brother in no way violates his wishes. Did he say he wouldn't want to know if his sibling was experiencing dementia? Give him the information because he should have it. It then becomes his choice if he wants to explore genetic testing himself.
14
When reading about the wife jumping in and out of bed with multiple people and what the best friend should do, all I had to ask myself was this, "Would YOU want to know?"
And yes, I would want to know.
Immediately.
This is a woman who has been with many people over the course of her marriage. Based on her actions, far more than what she has disclosed to her best friend. They have all been with other people, too.
There are now hundreds of people in this man's bed.
The wife is at high risk for AIDS and herpes and other diseases, unless she is using protection all the time. Given her lust for adventure and alternative escapades in the bedroom, my guess is that she is flaky in this department, too.
It only takes one time with the wrong person. The wife gets it...then the husband.
This is not a case of a spouse cheating one time, and eternally regretting it. Not at all. That would be a secret worth keeping. No marriage is perfect. Good people do slip up and can make loyal and faithful partners in future.
This is also not a case of a single woman sleeping around with other single people, which is no problem. But she's not single. She's married. There's a victim here - her husband.
She sounds horrible. The friendship is over anyhow. Who would want to be friends with someone who has so little character?
I would want to know is my husband was popping in and out of other women's beds.
You would want to know.
The husband SHOULD know.
I'd tell him.
And yes, I would want to know.
Immediately.
This is a woman who has been with many people over the course of her marriage. Based on her actions, far more than what she has disclosed to her best friend. They have all been with other people, too.
There are now hundreds of people in this man's bed.
The wife is at high risk for AIDS and herpes and other diseases, unless she is using protection all the time. Given her lust for adventure and alternative escapades in the bedroom, my guess is that she is flaky in this department, too.
It only takes one time with the wrong person. The wife gets it...then the husband.
This is not a case of a spouse cheating one time, and eternally regretting it. Not at all. That would be a secret worth keeping. No marriage is perfect. Good people do slip up and can make loyal and faithful partners in future.
This is also not a case of a single woman sleeping around with other single people, which is no problem. But she's not single. She's married. There's a victim here - her husband.
She sounds horrible. The friendship is over anyhow. Who would want to be friends with someone who has so little character?
I would want to know is my husband was popping in and out of other women's beds.
You would want to know.
The husband SHOULD know.
I'd tell him.
80
It could be that the husband knows about his wife's infidelities but accepts them, because he doesn't want to be alone and might fall in love with his wife some day.
6
Appiah doesn't understand how research grants work (maybe because he is a philosopher?). Helping me with my research is one of the main ways students learn. Then they will carve off a piece of it for their own thesis. If a student is working on something completely different from me, I won't take them on - I can't afford to do that (I am talking about time here, not money).
13
Yes. I wonder if the letter writer and her colleague whom she thinks is exploiting unpaid students by "helping" her colleague with his researcher are in the same fields. What she describes as "unethical" is the standard approach in technical fields - the faculty member identifies the research area and the specific problems to be addressed, and the students do the lab work. Usually, this is paid for by a grant, but the same structure is used for unfunded graduate students.
I don't agree that this is unethical. The unfunded student is already at a significant disadvantage relative to his funded peers: his degree will be delayed because he must work unrelated or tangential part-time jobs to support himself, and funding to attend conferences may difficult to find. To give him the added burden of finding a suitable research topic that would make a reasonable MS or PhD thesis project, not a trivial problem, will slow him down further.
I don't agree that this is unethical. The unfunded student is already at a significant disadvantage relative to his funded peers: his degree will be delayed because he must work unrelated or tangential part-time jobs to support himself, and funding to attend conferences may difficult to find. To give him the added burden of finding a suitable research topic that would make a reasonable MS or PhD thesis project, not a trivial problem, will slow him down further.
2
"a decent person can be the friend of a charming rogue"
But can a rogue, charming or otherwise, be trusted? In my experience, the answer is no.
But can a rogue, charming or otherwise, be trusted? In my experience, the answer is no.
41
As the victim of a serial cheater and adept gas-lighter, I would have appreciated knowing this sooner rather than later. I suspect several friends knew the score and kept quiet ... as a result, I no longer consider them anything beyond "acquaintances."
98
I did not feel 'friendship' anymore for people who supported my husband in his mid-life quest for more adventure. I was stunned and hurt that they would accept his behaviour when they knew how badly it hurt me. I had to examine how I considered friendship, and ended up making a new definition that I have since lived by.
33
As to the LW with a friend who is sexually adventurous - I think the best rule of thumb is to stay out of everyone else's marriage. Marriage is an odd and complicated relationship; only your own marriage should be of your concern, and I hope for your sake you have no friends who are willing to insert themselves into it.
If it disturbs the LW so much, back off from the friendship, express disapproval to the friend; or focus in some other way on the relationship with the friend.
If it disturbs the LW so much, back off from the friendship, express disapproval to the friend; or focus in some other way on the relationship with the friend.
5
@Mary: "focus in some other way on the relationship with the friend"? REALLY? Like what? "Hey, how about if we join a book club together!" The cheating "friend" has the ethics & morals of a snake, and she's already shown the LW how little esteem she has for her by bringing the "boyfriend" to the LW's party, which was brazenly obnoxious behavior. If I had a "friend" who tried that, she'd be an ex-friend pretty much immediately. In fact, I might have just introduced her to those at the party as "Jane and her lover Mike".
31
Regarding the first question, isn't all talk of "confidence" misplaced when she's bringing other men to parties? The husband has a right to know where he really stands; the idea that he "must" know automatically is misplaced, since she's clearly good at keeping him in the dark, according to the poster.
Let him have a chance at an authentic relationship. If the writer is reticent to spill all the beans, she might introduce the topic by describing the get-together where the wife brought someone else; then the husband could pursue, or not, the rest of the truth.
Let him have a chance at an authentic relationship. If the writer is reticent to spill all the beans, she might introduce the topic by describing the get-together where the wife brought someone else; then the husband could pursue, or not, the rest of the truth.
24
LW1, if you feel the need to inform her husband, one option is to tell the "friend" that you plan to do so if she does not within a certain time period. Of course that leaves the possibility she will lie to him or do something such that he won't believe you.
2
@Abby: Therefore the ETHICAL thing to do is to tell the husband directly, and write off the "friend" as the skunk she most certainly is.
18
About the extramarital affair: Affairs are nobody else's business, but only if they are kept private. Bringing a lover to a party destroys that privacy. The LW's choice is to tell the husband or abandon the friend; otherwise the LW becomes an enabler of the cheating. I personally believe that telling will benefit everyone. If the friend is a sex addict, facing her lies may encourage her to get better treatment. That in turn may enable her to commit to her marriage or give her the strength to leave it. Ultimately, however, the LW has to protect herself, and right now the friend is using both the husband and the LW badly, and has to be stopped, even if the loss of the friend is painful for a while.
43
When cheaters cheat, they don't just lie -- with every person they cheat with, they make their spouse/partner more vulnerable to viruses, bacteria, fungi, parasites, and potential murderers:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/17/ian-johnston-husband-of-...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/17/ian-johnston-husband-of-...
26
About the wife who has continued to cheat, one very critical aspect has been left unaddressed by the Ethicist in the answer: the HUSBAND'S HEALTH. His wife, by engaging in threesomes and sleeping with multiple other men, is likely exposing her husband to sexually transmitted diseases. Her husband's health MUST come before any other considerations in this situation.
The wife who's staying married "just in case" needs to be single again, and she needs more counseling, because there's serious pathology in a woman who's "too scared" to get divorced - but who's apparently unconcerned about what her sleeping around may be doing to her innocent husband's health. Her actions may perhaps shorten his lifespan through an infection he might not even know he has.
This woman deserves no cover and no quarter - tell the husband and ditch this "friend" who is not worthy of the title.
The wife who's staying married "just in case" needs to be single again, and she needs more counseling, because there's serious pathology in a woman who's "too scared" to get divorced - but who's apparently unconcerned about what her sleeping around may be doing to her innocent husband's health. Her actions may perhaps shorten his lifespan through an infection he might not even know he has.
This woman deserves no cover and no quarter - tell the husband and ditch this "friend" who is not worthy of the title.
105
The writer with dementia should see her doctor about early treatment and start considering how she might want to cope with daily living challenges, financial and healthcare paperwork that may come in the future. If her brother would be involved in any of that then it will end up being time to bring it up. Planning ahead would let her make her preferences known and think about the plan. Medications slow progression and improve function along the way that enhances quality of life even if progression doesn't slow as much as you'd like.
14
The cheating woman's husband's health is seriously at risk. Were this my "friend" I would tell her: either you come clean to him about your repeated and ongoing adultery with multiple men, or I will. And follow through in very short order, like a week. No need to get into detail about threesomes (how on EARTH was it that she felt that was a safe thing to confide to you?) because that will only cause him more pain.
If he gets the whole truth and elects to stay in the marriage, that will be his business and your conscience will be clear.
If he gets the whole truth and elects to stay in the marriage, that will be his business and your conscience will be clear.
25
In re the cheating wife. One thing risky sexual behavior carries with it is a significant increase in STD's. IF you were a friend to the husband at all, you have an obligation to tell him.
58
Even if the first letter writer decides against telling her friend's husband herself, I believe she should have a candid discussion with the friend about the dishonesty of her actions and the repercussions, for her marriage and the friendship in question.
Personally, I can't imagine being "best friends" with someone who could so callously hurt her spouse, by omission and commission. Indeed, the letter writer appears to be edging away from the friend; I'd do so more forthrightly, explain why, and encourage the friend to end the marriage, with a consequence of not doing so the ending of the friendship.
For what it's worth, I'm not saying that monogamy is the only way to have a successful relationship. However, the essence of any meaningful relationship, monogamous or open, is honesty about what each individual wants and needs, and to be on the same page about what is, and isn't acceptable. In this case, the friend is recklessly and purposely lying to and hurting someone she loves (or should love) dearly. Not too great a characteristic in a spouse...or a best friend.
Personally, I can't imagine being "best friends" with someone who could so callously hurt her spouse, by omission and commission. Indeed, the letter writer appears to be edging away from the friend; I'd do so more forthrightly, explain why, and encourage the friend to end the marriage, with a consequence of not doing so the ending of the friendship.
For what it's worth, I'm not saying that monogamy is the only way to have a successful relationship. However, the essence of any meaningful relationship, monogamous or open, is honesty about what each individual wants and needs, and to be on the same page about what is, and isn't acceptable. In this case, the friend is recklessly and purposely lying to and hurting someone she loves (or should love) dearly. Not too great a characteristic in a spouse...or a best friend.
20
I am in the same position as S.B. Four years ago I was diagnosed with a neurological disease that is highly correlated with a type of dementia. I began biannual neuropsych exams, which show mild cognitive impairment. The disease has a hereditary component but not a strong one. I am the same age as S.B., with children in their early 30's. I have kept them informed from the start, whether they want to be or not, as this knowledge is important to our future together and their future after me.
25
The letter on graduate students does not state whether the colleague shares authorship with the graduate student working without pay. If he/she does, then there are immense benefits to this student.
14
You have to feel for the poor sap married to the serial cheater, regardless of what the writer decides to do.
Pretty awful situation.
Pretty awful situation.
45
You tell her! You sit her down and say " Your lying and deception of another good friend of mine - your husband - is stressing me out. So much that I dont want to be your friend anymore"
Now if you have been married 20 years there are probably have been many opportunities to cheat .But you dont because of the damage it does to the trust you have built.
Its pretty simple really. So ditch her. This is a problem of her own self-esteem that she, herself, has to fix.
Now if you have been married 20 years there are probably have been many opportunities to cheat .But you dont because of the damage it does to the trust you have built.
Its pretty simple really. So ditch her. This is a problem of her own self-esteem that she, herself, has to fix.
11
The husband has the right to know that his cheating wife may have exposed him to STDs so he can be tested.
For the writer with dementia, your brother will find out eventually as your disease (sadly) progresses. Let him know now. At least he has the option to be tested or not, which was not available to previous generations.
For the writer with dementia, your brother will find out eventually as your disease (sadly) progresses. Let him know now. At least he has the option to be tested or not, which was not available to previous generations.
33
Where was the help of the three therapists consulted in all of this?
Confidentiality rules for individual therapy so she may
have told her therapist or lied. Who knows?
It is pretty shocking though that this behavior continued despite the "help" from three therapists, each individual
one and the couples therapist.
In this situation I would ask myself: How will the husband
feel when he hears or learns by accident about her
many affairs knowing that friends have known about it
and not told him? That is a powerful combination for
any person to deal with. The "wife" is behaving in a way
where unconsciously she wants to be caught. She seems
to have no respect at all for her husbands feelings.
Why does she deserve loyalty?
Confidentiality rules for individual therapy so she may
have told her therapist or lied. Who knows?
It is pretty shocking though that this behavior continued despite the "help" from three therapists, each individual
one and the couples therapist.
In this situation I would ask myself: How will the husband
feel when he hears or learns by accident about her
many affairs knowing that friends have known about it
and not told him? That is a powerful combination for
any person to deal with. The "wife" is behaving in a way
where unconsciously she wants to be caught. She seems
to have no respect at all for her husbands feelings.
Why does she deserve loyalty?
9
For the first letter writer: I don't know how old you are, you sound fairly young, but I regret to inform you that your bf is a horrible person, a compulsive liar, and has decided to draw you into her deception because she gets a kick out of it.
She showed up with him to your party? Did you know this ahead of time and OK it? Or did she surprise you? If one member of a couple I was friends with decided to show up at my anything with a side piece, I would turn them away at the door. Now you may not be as old and cranky as I am, but that is outrageously disrespectful behavior on her part. You should absolutely let her know that you won't tolerate being made a party to her terrible behavior.
The bottom line is that she is not your bff anymore. While you may not want to let her husband know what she is doing, you shouldn't allow yourself be dragged into her dirty business.
She showed up with him to your party? Did you know this ahead of time and OK it? Or did she surprise you? If one member of a couple I was friends with decided to show up at my anything with a side piece, I would turn them away at the door. Now you may not be as old and cranky as I am, but that is outrageously disrespectful behavior on her part. You should absolutely let her know that you won't tolerate being made a party to her terrible behavior.
The bottom line is that she is not your bff anymore. While you may not want to let her husband know what she is doing, you shouldn't allow yourself be dragged into her dirty business.
69
A friend of mine wanted to show up at my party with his girlfriend, not his wife. I let him know that would not be tolerated; he comes with his wife or not at all. He brought the wife and my own sense of integrity was preserved.
16
I would find a way to let the husband know what is going on. He needs to know, not just for the sake of his peace of mind and potential to find real happiness, but because he needs to know from a health standpoint.
In these days of rampant sexually transmitted infections, the fact that someone could so cavalier about potentially exposing their unknowing spouse is horrifying.
The husband needs to know so that he can get himself tested, and take appropriate steps.
In these days of rampant sexually transmitted infections, the fact that someone could so cavalier about potentially exposing their unknowing spouse is horrifying.
The husband needs to know so that he can get himself tested, and take appropriate steps.
32
BFF - You haven't seen her in a few months which is a great start. She's a pathological liar in all her relationships, including the one with you. She's even selfishly staying with the husband out of convenience. She's a championship user of people, and you may not see how she is damaging to you, but you've participated in her web of deceit and lies by not saying anything, and you weren't even invited. She just dragged you in.
On-line: Writing catchy headlines that draw clicks is ok. Making this clicks yourself by pretending to be someone else is fraud. If it weren't unethical, why would S.K. be using aliases?
Not telling your brother that you have Alz. might deny him the chance to work on a bucket list or obtain long-term care insurance, and he may have changed his thoughts about knowing. In my mother's generation, the 6 girls all had some degree of it, but neither of the two brothers did, so nothing is certain. In some cases the progression is hardly noticeable and in some cases it gallops. Your 'probable' diagnosis is not necessarily his sure thing, although the chances are excellent. He might already be in a treatment plan or a research situation, and knowledge of your condition might be useful.
Student labor- any situation where one person has control of another person and the result is unpaid labor constitutes slavery. Too strong? Can the student refuse work or leave without consequences? No? Then it's no longer just mild exploitation.
On-line: Writing catchy headlines that draw clicks is ok. Making this clicks yourself by pretending to be someone else is fraud. If it weren't unethical, why would S.K. be using aliases?
Not telling your brother that you have Alz. might deny him the chance to work on a bucket list or obtain long-term care insurance, and he may have changed his thoughts about knowing. In my mother's generation, the 6 girls all had some degree of it, but neither of the two brothers did, so nothing is certain. In some cases the progression is hardly noticeable and in some cases it gallops. Your 'probable' diagnosis is not necessarily his sure thing, although the chances are excellent. He might already be in a treatment plan or a research situation, and knowledge of your condition might be useful.
Student labor- any situation where one person has control of another person and the result is unpaid labor constitutes slavery. Too strong? Can the student refuse work or leave without consequences? No? Then it's no longer just mild exploitation.
14
With regard to the cheating wife, what should you do if you find that that she is pregnant by someone other than her husband? I was faced with that dilemma several years ago. My wife had become friendly with one of her coworkers (I'll call her "Jill") and we had met her and her husband ("Jack") on some social occasions. Jill announced that she was pregnant and when I next saw her at my wife's office, I congratulated her and commented that Jack must be thrilled. Her reply was, "Yes, he is. But he doesn't know that the baby isn't his!". The only thing I could think to say in reply was, "Do you have a death wish?"
I decided not to mention Jill's confession to anyone else, including my wife. I rationalized that if Jill told me her husband was not being the father of her yet unborn child, that she was likely to tell others.
I didn't think (or just rationalized....) that my casual contacts with Jack allowed me to tell him of Jill's infidelity. Was that the "ethical" thing to do or not do?
I decided not to mention Jill's confession to anyone else, including my wife. I rationalized that if Jill told me her husband was not being the father of her yet unborn child, that she was likely to tell others.
I didn't think (or just rationalized....) that my casual contacts with Jack allowed me to tell him of Jill's infidelity. Was that the "ethical" thing to do or not do?
12
It depends on how well you really know this woman, it could be that:
- She has a weird sense of humor and this was her idea of a joke.
- She's a drama queen and just says nonsense for the stir it creates.
- She and her husband have an open marriage and, while he's aware of the possibility, he's not certain yet.
- She has a weird sense of humor and this was her idea of a joke.
- She's a drama queen and just says nonsense for the stir it creates.
- She and her husband have an open marriage and, while he's aware of the possibility, he's not certain yet.
3
She was probably kidding.
I tell men to always have the baby teated so you know where you stand before you sign the birth certificate. In the USA it is statistically about 50/50. If you decide to have a talk with the mother and all you get are denials then it's time to move on rather than adopting someone else's life long responsibilities in a loveless relationship.
If your friend were hiding an alcohol, drug or spending addiction from her spouse, would you tell the husband? At this far gone, I would. Because the behavior is damaging to her and to him. I would approach it as "Jane has a problem and I'm worried about her well-being; I'm sure you are, too. And, of course, it affects you."
Don't be surprised if he already knows more than she thinks he does. He may have his own reasons for staying married. (Most men do not tolerate cheating and would have left at the first sign.)
Don't be surprised if he already knows more than she thinks he does. He may have his own reasons for staying married. (Most men do not tolerate cheating and would have left at the first sign.)
8
"There is, however, another reason not to tell her husband: It’s that you were told these things in confidence, as a friend."
.
I thought when reading this sentence that the issue would be identified as one of integrity, keeping one's word. I did not expect the entire matter to boil down to one of affection and loyalty.
.
A "friend" who asks one to remain silent about transgressions this serious betrays their own lack of integrity, not in committing the transgressions, but (additionally) in sharing the information and asking for silence in the first place. Such lack of integrity should not be rewarded with affection or loyalty. In the future, perhaps as a result of this experience, the person who submitted this dilemma should immediately tell a "friend" in similar circumstances that she cannot agree to keep silent on the spot. In any case I see no reason not to tell the husband.
.
I thought when reading this sentence that the issue would be identified as one of integrity, keeping one's word. I did not expect the entire matter to boil down to one of affection and loyalty.
.
A "friend" who asks one to remain silent about transgressions this serious betrays their own lack of integrity, not in committing the transgressions, but (additionally) in sharing the information and asking for silence in the first place. Such lack of integrity should not be rewarded with affection or loyalty. In the future, perhaps as a result of this experience, the person who submitted this dilemma should immediately tell a "friend" in similar circumstances that she cannot agree to keep silent on the spot. In any case I see no reason not to tell the husband.
11
About the friend cheating on her husband. I would add, I think she should share her views with her friend in the same way that she shared them with all of us, and encourage her to be honest with her husband, for all the right reasons. If she then continues her behavior, I agree that I would personally feel the need to abandon the relationship. If her husband would ask me then, why I had abandoned the relationship, I would encourage him to ask her about what caused it. It is never a good idea to triangulate these kind of issues.
5
You have left the wife's ethics aside (and they are appalling), and addressed the question only from the standpoint of the friends ethical dilemma. There is, however, another issue at play here: the health of the husband.
The writer said "she has slept with more than 10 other men while being married and even slept with an ex-boyfriend while she was engaged... she’s still seeing and sleeping with the man she was caught cheating with, engaging in threesomes with him and sleeping with other men..."
It's important to note that whenever you sleep with someone, you are also sleeping with all of the rest of their sexual partners. In this particular case, that includes at a minimum 12 other men, plus the third person in the threesomes. So at a minimum, let's say she's been intimate with 15 people. If each of these people has been intimate with 4 "other" people, that means she has potentially been exposed to whatever sexually transmitted diseases 60 other people might have. And she's taking these diseases home to her husband.
Under these circumstances, health and safety trump the ethics of friendship of a severely ethically challenged person. The friend MUST tell the husband. In any case, this is not a person who
The writer said "she has slept with more than 10 other men while being married and even slept with an ex-boyfriend while she was engaged... she’s still seeing and sleeping with the man she was caught cheating with, engaging in threesomes with him and sleeping with other men..."
It's important to note that whenever you sleep with someone, you are also sleeping with all of the rest of their sexual partners. In this particular case, that includes at a minimum 12 other men, plus the third person in the threesomes. So at a minimum, let's say she's been intimate with 15 people. If each of these people has been intimate with 4 "other" people, that means she has potentially been exposed to whatever sexually transmitted diseases 60 other people might have. And she's taking these diseases home to her husband.
Under these circumstances, health and safety trump the ethics of friendship of a severely ethically challenged person. The friend MUST tell the husband. In any case, this is not a person who
18
re the final question,
"That’s why your university and department ought to have policies in place to set appropriate standards." Exactly. And if no such standards exist, this person should work to get the university and department to adopt a set of standards covering situations like this.
I too worked at a large university and from time to time undergraduates approached me to work in my lab as unpaid assistants. I refused, although for a different reason: our work was critical, time-sensitive, and finicky, and I felt that being paid is a critical element both to motivate the person to focus on doing a good job and to shape my expectations from them. If they seemed suitable, I hired them and paid them the same hourly rate as any other starting-level staff member (minus benefits, though). Some subterfuge was involved in dealing with admin. But the arrangement worked out extremely well for the lab.
"That’s why your university and department ought to have policies in place to set appropriate standards." Exactly. And if no such standards exist, this person should work to get the university and department to adopt a set of standards covering situations like this.
I too worked at a large university and from time to time undergraduates approached me to work in my lab as unpaid assistants. I refused, although for a different reason: our work was critical, time-sensitive, and finicky, and I felt that being paid is a critical element both to motivate the person to focus on doing a good job and to shape my expectations from them. If they seemed suitable, I hired them and paid them the same hourly rate as any other starting-level staff member (minus benefits, though). Some subterfuge was involved in dealing with admin. But the arrangement worked out extremely well for the lab.
6
I agree with the Ethicist that cheating issues are none of anyone's business, and that telling a spurned spouse can be dangerous and or unethical, since the observing party cannot know all the details. For instance, a cheaters spouse could be abusive or suicidal, or a brief extra-martial dalliance that fades away in time.
In the instance as described, the infidelities of the friend show clear markers of major mental illness. For instance, The possibility of a degree of Borderline Personality Disorder, comes to mind.
Additionally, the quantity of infidelity here raises issues of STDs, and potential drug use, which should certainly be a cause of concern to husband. It's unlikely her husband does not know of some infidelity, since forms of BPD also have 'side-benefits' of intense sexual behavior.
Tread carefully.
In the instance as described, the infidelities of the friend show clear markers of major mental illness. For instance, The possibility of a degree of Borderline Personality Disorder, comes to mind.
Additionally, the quantity of infidelity here raises issues of STDs, and potential drug use, which should certainly be a cause of concern to husband. It's unlikely her husband does not know of some infidelity, since forms of BPD also have 'side-benefits' of intense sexual behavior.
Tread carefully.
4
One more thing to consider regarding your friend's extra marital affairs is the effect it would have on her husband if he knew. I was that husband - I discovered after 18 years of marriage that my wife had at least 25 affairs. Now, 6 years later, I live in a small apartment alone (my ex lives in our old house with our children), I have lost my ability to retire thanks to her legal right to take half of my savings without regard to her culpability for the failure of the marriage and I am, generally, without happiness, hope or purpose in my life. I wish I had never found out. Ignorance would have been bliss, relatively speaking.
28
@David B: I am very sorry for how things worked out for you - but let me ask you this: had your ex-wife's behavior left you HIV-positive (or if you had gotten another STD), would you still say that "ignorance is bliss"?
12
David, and I ask this woth empathy, would you prefer not to have ever known, or would you have preferred to find out 5-6 years into the marriage rather than many years later?
5
Sadly all too often life is unfair and painful. Eighteen years of marriage and six years single means you are still relatively young. Perhaps a little counseling to nudge you forward, to help you see that you have an opportunity to live the life you want. You probably loved the wife you thought you had, the one who never existed. Now you can heal the wounds so that you can find someone who would cherish you.
25 affairs....I would rather be single than worrying where she was. It is a kick in the you know where, but it is on her, not you. I hope you find contentment.
25 affairs....I would rather be single than worrying where she was. It is a kick in the you know where, but it is on her, not you. I hope you find contentment.
8
Regarding the Alzheimer's question, while there is presently no cure, there is a good reason to know, and that is the need to purchase supplemental long term care insurance.
25
"Regarding the Alzheimer's question, while there is presently no cure, there is a good reason to know, and that is the need to purchase supplemental long term care insurance."
But if you know, you will not be able to buy the insurance.
But if you know, you will not be able to buy the insurance.
2
Couples have all kind of arrangements that we, the outsiders, most often not aware of it. You may not be fully aware of their implied/explicit agreements. What people share it is not always what's going on.
If you want yo make a difference, then your responsibility is to influence her to be honest with him. But if she refuses, it is not your responsibility to tell him. For all you know, he already knows but her cheating, and this arrangement works for him. Therefore, he turns a blind eye to it.
You telling him ultimately may lead for you to lose their friendship. Are you ok with it?
Here are a few questions I would ask myself:
1. what are you trying to accomplish by making him aware of the situation that he he might be aware?
2. how is your friendship will change with him/her if you tell him?
If you want yo make a difference, then your responsibility is to influence her to be honest with him. But if she refuses, it is not your responsibility to tell him. For all you know, he already knows but her cheating, and this arrangement works for him. Therefore, he turns a blind eye to it.
You telling him ultimately may lead for you to lose their friendship. Are you ok with it?
Here are a few questions I would ask myself:
1. what are you trying to accomplish by making him aware of the situation that he he might be aware?
2. how is your friendship will change with him/her if you tell him?
2
Thinking about that first request, and the dishonorable behavior by the "friend." As a friend who doesn't condone the behavior, I think that the writer has an obligation to advise the 'friend" of how disturbing the revelation of that behavior has been to the writer, to the point where she wants no further revelations unloaded on her, and is uncomfortable with contact individually or as couples as long as this continues. ( And wished that she'd said as much months ago).
As for telling the husband - I wouldn't because - 1) the writer didn't tell the 'friend' how she felt when she listened in confidence; 2) it's been a few months - the writer doesn't know what has happened in the interim, and 3) the writer has no idea what the husband knows and it is rare that a spouse /partner really thinks all is well when it isn't. He is not going to be happy with the writer if she decides to tell him what she heard - plus - this wasn't alluded to and it important - the husband is not responsible for relieving the writer's guilt or anxiety about the secret information she accepted.
As for telling the husband - I wouldn't because - 1) the writer didn't tell the 'friend' how she felt when she listened in confidence; 2) it's been a few months - the writer doesn't know what has happened in the interim, and 3) the writer has no idea what the husband knows and it is rare that a spouse /partner really thinks all is well when it isn't. He is not going to be happy with the writer if she decides to tell him what she heard - plus - this wasn't alluded to and it important - the husband is not responsible for relieving the writer's guilt or anxiety about the secret information she accepted.
15
And the writer also does not know what the husband is doing/has done. She has only heard the story from the point of view of the friend. He might be having an affair himself at this point, for all she knows-though that may not be likely as he wanted to continue the marriage.
With regard to the friend, the writer should consider telling her not just that she does not want to hear any more about the affairs but that, as a friend, the LW feels the friend should address this pattern of behavior for her own wellbeing. She notes that the friend has attended addiction groups. If the friend has stopped attending she might want to suggest she return and to pursue counseling to deal with what seems to be a sexual addiction, not just a fling or a few flings. Sooner or later this may come crashing down and the friend may end up without important close relationships--romantic, sexual, and friend.
And, yes, the LW should distance herself from her friend for her own psychological health and wellbeing and really evaluate if the friendship is worth continuing.
With regard to the friend, the writer should consider telling her not just that she does not want to hear any more about the affairs but that, as a friend, the LW feels the friend should address this pattern of behavior for her own wellbeing. She notes that the friend has attended addiction groups. If the friend has stopped attending she might want to suggest she return and to pursue counseling to deal with what seems to be a sexual addiction, not just a fling or a few flings. Sooner or later this may come crashing down and the friend may end up without important close relationships--romantic, sexual, and friend.
And, yes, the LW should distance herself from her friend for her own psychological health and wellbeing and really evaluate if the friendship is worth continuing.
2
How can you trust someone who treats her husband so shamefully? Especially since her husband went along to counseling--including separate counseling--under the belief that she had only cheated with one person and that was over.
She clearly also lied to the counselor they went to--at least the one they saw together. And she's not just doing this in secret--she's now bringing the guys she's sleeping with to parties of people who know and like her husband.
It's the letter writer's choice to be friends with whomever she wants including this person. But doesn't her husband have the same right? Shouldn't it be his choice to know that right now he's the equivalent of a back-up pair of shoes, lied to, humiliated, and kept on hand in case the friend somehow one day really wants him?
Find a way to let the husband know what the deal is. Let him have a chance at happiness.
She clearly also lied to the counselor they went to--at least the one they saw together. And she's not just doing this in secret--she's now bringing the guys she's sleeping with to parties of people who know and like her husband.
It's the letter writer's choice to be friends with whomever she wants including this person. But doesn't her husband have the same right? Shouldn't it be his choice to know that right now he's the equivalent of a back-up pair of shoes, lied to, humiliated, and kept on hand in case the friend somehow one day really wants him?
Find a way to let the husband know what the deal is. Let him have a chance at happiness.
123
She brought her boyfriend to your party. I do not see how that is something that was done in confidence. If she is flaunting her affairs in public you can at least disclose that much to her husband.
39
I would further note that the friend is likely exposing her husband to any number of sexually transmitted diseases.
17
Who are we to know what would make the husband happy? Perhaps he is happiest with his current spouse, even if he is, as you term it, a "back-up pair of shoes". Every relationship is a carefully calibrated balance of things known and unknown--and we, as outsiders, cannot judge that balance. Among other things, some people simply care more about fidelity than others. For me, for example, intelligence more than outweighs fidelity: I would rather be married to a smart cheater than someone who is faithful but intellectually underwhelming. And I would find the latter situation far more humiliating than the former one.
The husband has already indicated his willingness to work through one instance of infidelity; who are we to assume that these new revelations would (or should) be a dealbreaker? Or that he wants to have them addressed by an acquaintance? Perhaps he already has an inkling of what's going on. Perhaps he actually knows and does not care. Perhaps he has willed himself into not knowing. No matter what, neither we nor the writer should assume that the husband will be happier or better off if the truth is forced out.
Telling the husband would be an act of selfish moralizing on the part of the letter writer, and no one should try to justify that behavior with assumptions about the husband's preferences.
The husband has already indicated his willingness to work through one instance of infidelity; who are we to assume that these new revelations would (or should) be a dealbreaker? Or that he wants to have them addressed by an acquaintance? Perhaps he already has an inkling of what's going on. Perhaps he actually knows and does not care. Perhaps he has willed himself into not knowing. No matter what, neither we nor the writer should assume that the husband will be happier or better off if the truth is forced out.
Telling the husband would be an act of selfish moralizing on the part of the letter writer, and no one should try to justify that behavior with assumptions about the husband's preferences.
2
"In the realm of online media, counterfeit clicks are the road to perdition."
I cannot help but feel this wry comment by the "ethicist" was made with a knowing wink.
I cannot help but feel this wry comment by the "ethicist" was made with a knowing wink.
21
I share the belief of other, older commentators--you cannot know what is going on in someone else's marriage, and furthermore it's none of your business.
If you find your friends conduct immoral, tell her and then drop her.