"Nothing in life is easy! You do need to relinquish an attitude of entitlement, work hard, and settle for whatever contentment you can get from life"
"Millennials needn't feel that they are somehow special. We all have it tough. Nothing is handed to you."
These are interesting statements for baby boomers to make. They came of age during a time when most people didn't have college degrees, and most jobs didn't call for one. The competition for jobs was limited to their own town (and, if you were white, your own race, thanks to legalized discrimination). To get a good paying job with a retirement plan, all they needed was to show up well-dressed at a local business or factory. That world is gone -- it has been replaced with a knowledge-based economy that has made a college degree the equivalent of a high school degree in the old economy. If the younger generation is entitled, it is because they witness their parents and grandparents prosper during a period of American economic history that played by much different rules.
"Millennials needn't feel that they are somehow special. We all have it tough. Nothing is handed to you."
These are interesting statements for baby boomers to make. They came of age during a time when most people didn't have college degrees, and most jobs didn't call for one. The competition for jobs was limited to their own town (and, if you were white, your own race, thanks to legalized discrimination). To get a good paying job with a retirement plan, all they needed was to show up well-dressed at a local business or factory. That world is gone -- it has been replaced with a knowledge-based economy that has made a college degree the equivalent of a high school degree in the old economy. If the younger generation is entitled, it is because they witness their parents and grandparents prosper during a period of American economic history that played by much different rules.
19
Stop getting art degrees and complaining about lack of opportunity.
4
This article gives the mistaken impression that random violence is common in Seattle-- it is not. I've lived here 22 years and go to all the festivals, walk anywhere, and am not afraid or a vicitm. I teach on a college campus that reports nearby crime, and yes, students need to be sensible and not stagger around drunk at 2 am. But to be afraid to go to Bumbershoot or Folklife? That's just dumb.
I also think that Millenials who don't trust banks and don't want mortgages are equally dumb. When I came to Seattle from Brooklyn I had to pay three times as much for a house, a very modest house than anyone in my fmily had ever paid. I had to rent out the extra bedrooms. I had to live on rice and beans for ages. But my house has paid for itself all these years and will pay for my retirement because it appreciated so much. Yes, housing prices are stratospheric in Seattle, but that's what we thought of prices in 1994-- the way the market works is that what seems outragous today seems like a bargain later-- and it is a bargain. To refuse to take on a mortgage in a recession- proof city like Seattle is to miss the best opportunity you will ever have to secure your financial future. I never made 90,000 a year in my life, but if a single woman teaching in a Catholic school can secure her future by being smart about real estate then so can these Millenials. Seattle is the Land of Opportunity, not just for rich techies, but for anyone smart enough and brave enough to seize the day.
I also think that Millenials who don't trust banks and don't want mortgages are equally dumb. When I came to Seattle from Brooklyn I had to pay three times as much for a house, a very modest house than anyone in my fmily had ever paid. I had to rent out the extra bedrooms. I had to live on rice and beans for ages. But my house has paid for itself all these years and will pay for my retirement because it appreciated so much. Yes, housing prices are stratospheric in Seattle, but that's what we thought of prices in 1994-- the way the market works is that what seems outragous today seems like a bargain later-- and it is a bargain. To refuse to take on a mortgage in a recession- proof city like Seattle is to miss the best opportunity you will ever have to secure your financial future. I never made 90,000 a year in my life, but if a single woman teaching in a Catholic school can secure her future by being smart about real estate then so can these Millenials. Seattle is the Land of Opportunity, not just for rich techies, but for anyone smart enough and brave enough to seize the day.
10
People need to stop defining themselves by their generation in terms of their economic opportunities and expectations. People in each generation have become rich, and many more people in each gen. have been poor. And people who have comfortable lives in any generation are far less likely to be concerned about the needs of society as a whole. Dividing people into generations is similar to dividing them by race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, et al. It gets us nowhere as a people and diffuses our energies in squabbles against one another. Big money likes that, keeping the little people fighting amongst themselves.
Economic justice is the only way to establish a healthy and sustainable culture and society. When a middle class family declares bankruptcy due to medical bills, they revert to base poverty and struggle once again to lift themselves up from ruin; that is, if they can now get or keep a job--one which won't make them dependent on food stamps. That is not just. That does not make for a healthy or sustainable society.
I was born soon after World War II and witnessed a more equitable society. Medical costs didn't often put people into bankruptcy. The highest earners in society were taxed at over 90%, and there were no complaints. Since then, corruption and greed have greatly increased, and taxes on the wealthy have decreased to a third or less of what they were. It will only get worse as long as it is tolerated. Don't depend on the rich to care about justice.
Economic justice is the only way to establish a healthy and sustainable culture and society. When a middle class family declares bankruptcy due to medical bills, they revert to base poverty and struggle once again to lift themselves up from ruin; that is, if they can now get or keep a job--one which won't make them dependent on food stamps. That is not just. That does not make for a healthy or sustainable society.
I was born soon after World War II and witnessed a more equitable society. Medical costs didn't often put people into bankruptcy. The highest earners in society were taxed at over 90%, and there were no complaints. Since then, corruption and greed have greatly increased, and taxes on the wealthy have decreased to a third or less of what they were. It will only get worse as long as it is tolerated. Don't depend on the rich to care about justice.
11
I get so very tired of old people who chastise millennials for not working hard and complaining. I have two millennials and they work very hard, and are as cynical and pessimistic as those in the article.
Most of the commenters here are probably retired, which is why they can comment on a Friday morning. Brain researchers have found that as we age, we remember our early twenties unrealistically, painting that period as "the best times of our lives". Remember that, please. "We worked harder! We didn't complain!" Take off those rose-colored glasses. No one went to class in my college days, in the mid-70s, because we'd rather smoke pot and go to anti-Vietnam war demonstrations and listen to music. Of my peers, only 25% had college degrees, so I could get a good job anywhere, at any time.
When I graduated from college, I had $3,500 in student debt. My parents house cost $32,000 in Los Angeles. How can you say the kids of today have the same opportunities? They don't. You old people were just spoiled. Thus, Trumps' popularity with old white people---they hope to return to the "good old days". Blah.
Most of the commenters here are probably retired, which is why they can comment on a Friday morning. Brain researchers have found that as we age, we remember our early twenties unrealistically, painting that period as "the best times of our lives". Remember that, please. "We worked harder! We didn't complain!" Take off those rose-colored glasses. No one went to class in my college days, in the mid-70s, because we'd rather smoke pot and go to anti-Vietnam war demonstrations and listen to music. Of my peers, only 25% had college degrees, so I could get a good job anywhere, at any time.
When I graduated from college, I had $3,500 in student debt. My parents house cost $32,000 in Los Angeles. How can you say the kids of today have the same opportunities? They don't. You old people were just spoiled. Thus, Trumps' popularity with old white people---they hope to return to the "good old days". Blah.
15
I don't understand the Seattle angle of this article. As a New Yorker who's lived in Seattle for 3 years, I don't see how any of the concerns described by the people in this article are unique to this city. Sure, it's an expensive place to live - but so are a lot of other places. Seems like the reporter just interviewed a bunch of Ada students, who all described very common (and yes, very real) concerns that young adults have with the economy and our modern way of life, and somehow A) positioned them as uniquely Seattle while B) re-hashing issues felt all across our nation. Misleading headline.
9
I thought it was the weirdest article. The writer jumped all over the place. What are we talking about? Unemployment? Women in tech? Terrorism? Donald Trump? Millennial ambivalence? Artistic young professionals?
You can't profile 3 individuals who attend a code academy and say they speak for every young adult in Seattle. If you have 70k in student loan debt, that's your own personal mistake, not a grievance on society. And what are you anxious about? You're going to become a developer and make at least 100k a year for the rest of your life. The journalist should have slapped them with a reality check instead of boo-hoo'ing them.
You can't profile 3 individuals who attend a code academy and say they speak for every young adult in Seattle. If you have 70k in student loan debt, that's your own personal mistake, not a grievance on society. And what are you anxious about? You're going to become a developer and make at least 100k a year for the rest of your life. The journalist should have slapped them with a reality check instead of boo-hoo'ing them.
12
Interesting and insightful article. But, it seems to me that nearly every generation has been faced with major challenges. I am a "baby boomer," born in the early 1950s. My parents' generation faced the poverty and hunger of the great depression as adolescents, the horrors of World War II as they completed high school, and the rise of nuclear weapons and threat of nuclear war as young adults. My generation faced the Vietnam war as adolescents, left college in the early 70s to see gasoline prices tripling, high tech jobs disappear as the Apollo program wound down, and a nearly 10-year long stagflation accompanied by mortgage interest rates that reached 15% by the early 1980s. Yes, the millennials now face a whole new set of challenges; details do differ but I am far more struck by the parallels to the experiences of prior generations.
7
Gainful employment for all will come when we recognize and accept the necessity for the mother of all infrastructure projects: relocating our coastal cities inland.
3
One never knows how life will turn out between your 20's and your 60's and life is rarely a straight line. Much depends on the choices you make at every stage of life. Blaming outside forces for your predicament solves nothing. As to the stories in the article, are they really reflective of millenials? I doubt it. Most I know personally are making a go of it and have been as successful as most people are in their 20's and early 30's.
7
What needs to burn , what needs to change is our human model of growth .
A massive reduction of the world population will be the future of the human race and hopefully it will be gradual and not caused by wars and diseases . The rising cost of everything is related to an increase in demand and that demand is causing a massive deterioration of our planet ecosystem .
The anxiety of the new generation will be nothing compared to what will experience the future ones when the planet won't have the resources to support the life of hundreds of millions of people and massive conflicts similar to the one happening with Daesh will spread all over the world .
We need (at least in highly industrialize nations) to find a way to encourage a one child policy with the understanding that because of that, China has today between 500 to 600 millions less people which in many ways is a plus for our planet environment.
It would be a very controversial measure, not easy to implement and because of cultural differences it would need to be organized differently than how it was done in China , but the choice is simple , either we make our lives a bit more difficult for us now and accept the idea of having less children or we have all those children and make their lives even more difficult in the future .
A massive reduction of the world population will be the future of the human race and hopefully it will be gradual and not caused by wars and diseases . The rising cost of everything is related to an increase in demand and that demand is causing a massive deterioration of our planet ecosystem .
The anxiety of the new generation will be nothing compared to what will experience the future ones when the planet won't have the resources to support the life of hundreds of millions of people and massive conflicts similar to the one happening with Daesh will spread all over the world .
We need (at least in highly industrialize nations) to find a way to encourage a one child policy with the understanding that because of that, China has today between 500 to 600 millions less people which in many ways is a plus for our planet environment.
It would be a very controversial measure, not easy to implement and because of cultural differences it would need to be organized differently than how it was done in China , but the choice is simple , either we make our lives a bit more difficult for us now and accept the idea of having less children or we have all those children and make their lives even more difficult in the future .
5
They should worry more about the massive earthquake that will likely destroy their entire region and for which they are not adequately prepared at all.
A lot of us here have retro fitted our houses and maintain emergency pantries and water supplies. Despite dire warnings, the whole city is not clueless about the dangers and most of the people i know are prepared in sensible ways. The people I worry about are the Californians who just seem to throw up their hands and say "what can you do? Be happy!"
2
Major problem is that millenials still believe in govt as the solution.Reagan was correct when he said that government was the problem.Figure,that for every Dollar govt takes in,they output .50 or less.So,govt is like a giant wealth destruction machine.As it grows,expect our citizen's standard of living to decline.
4
From 1933 to 1999, the American middle class grew and its dominance was the new normal. It is no coincidence that Glass Steagall was enacted and in effect during this time. Of course other factors were in play, including the surge of industrial activity during and after WW2. But the financial structure in place during that time allowed savings to be reinvested in useful activities that benefited Main Street.
But because of Gramm-Leach-Bliley, a structural change was finalized. It signaled a shift, in Washington & among ever more Wall Street-centric economic thinking, which turned a yellow light into a green light for ever more risky and unproductive financial activities.
According to PewResearch.org, the share of income held by middle class families has fallen from 62% in 1971 to 43% in 2015.
Too much financial activity these days is engaged in unproductive speculation. There is even speculation over speculation in the derivatives market. It seems akin to a brisk market in ticket scalping. How does it benefit Main Street, if American savings is used in that way rather than in investing in brick and mortar businesses locally?
Such activity may peripherally benefit producers, but the rest of that activity is zero-sum -- someone's profit has to be derived from another's loss. Monetary policy has contributed to an asset bubble that demands squeezing more zero-sum profit from the economy. This is squeezed from non-exec wages, and consumer-investor participants.
But because of Gramm-Leach-Bliley, a structural change was finalized. It signaled a shift, in Washington & among ever more Wall Street-centric economic thinking, which turned a yellow light into a green light for ever more risky and unproductive financial activities.
According to PewResearch.org, the share of income held by middle class families has fallen from 62% in 1971 to 43% in 2015.
Too much financial activity these days is engaged in unproductive speculation. There is even speculation over speculation in the derivatives market. It seems akin to a brisk market in ticket scalping. How does it benefit Main Street, if American savings is used in that way rather than in investing in brick and mortar businesses locally?
Such activity may peripherally benefit producers, but the rest of that activity is zero-sum -- someone's profit has to be derived from another's loss. Monetary policy has contributed to an asset bubble that demands squeezing more zero-sum profit from the economy. This is squeezed from non-exec wages, and consumer-investor participants.
9
And don't forget strong unions to act as a bulwark against corporations. By forming unions, employees joined collectively to improve working conditions, including wages and benefits, hours and job safety, to resolve disagreements of employees and employers and to find the best ways to get the work done.
It's no wonder that with the decline in unions - and the active demonization of unions by a certain political party (yes, you Republican Party) - wages stagnated, income inequality increased and more and more got left behind.
It's no wonder that with the decline in unions - and the active demonization of unions by a certain political party (yes, you Republican Party) - wages stagnated, income inequality increased and more and more got left behind.
8
I'm 29 year old Seattleite and don't identify with ANY of this pessimism. We live in a complex, sometimes threatening world. It requires one to be smart and adapt. Did people really expect a different adulthood?
Go to the crowded festival.
Go to the crowded festival.
10
I share your optimism. I think the problem with us Millennials is we regard adulthood as something we can postpone or avoid. It's our prolonged adolescece that leaves us feeling anxious.
4
I am a millennial woman and I have one word to describe my peers: dramatic. I have student loans, but I earned those student loans in pursuit of a reasonably priced degree from a local college in a field that ensured a well paying job that would enable me to repay my loans. A college degree is an investment in your future career. I was aware of this at 18 when I was offered my first opportunity to sign my life away. I can't understand what other young men and women were thinking when they chose to spend extravagantly on degrees that seldom led to stable careers. There is clearly a disconnect between what people of my generation feel entitled to and the realities of being an adult (how else do you explain the once trendy phrase "I can't adult today?). I don't think that lavishing these grown children with sympathy about the fact that life isn't fair and sometimes they need to work hard and repay their mistakes is an appropriate way to address this.
8
What they were thinking is that they alone are 'special' and the world will nto only see this, but will reward them handsomely for it.
This is the outcome of clueless indulgent parents telling them "you can be anything you want to be!".
News: No one can
This is the outcome of clueless indulgent parents telling them "you can be anything you want to be!".
News: No one can
2
Once upon a time when I was 7, our teachers conducted a regular drill in which we were advised to shelter under our 1/2 in thick wooden school desk. The purpose of this maneuver was to protect us from the blast of two 20 megaton hydrogen bombs, which would have blasted a hole about 60 feet deep in our city, and left the living envying the dead. These apocalyptic threats were regularly reported on the news and dramatized. On an October evening in 1962, then Sec Def Robert McNamara gazed at the setting sun with reason to believe it would be his last. In 1968, our teachers held us in class to wait out the catastrophic riots that destroyed a good percentage of the city after the assassination of Martin Luther King. Later that summer, Robert F. Kennedy was slain as we watched on TV, following his brother John into political martyrdom.
As a child, I found these events, which seemed to herald the end of the world as we knew it, somewhat disconcerting. However, I now see that they pale by comparison with the anxiety triggers bedeviling the millennials, such as paying one's debts.
As a child, I found these events, which seemed to herald the end of the world as we knew it, somewhat disconcerting. However, I now see that they pale by comparison with the anxiety triggers bedeviling the millennials, such as paying one's debts.
7
Terry Nugent,
Your last sentence was dismissive. You fail to compare concerns of past generations with current concerns facing not only millennials but most of the Earth's inhabitants -climate change, fewer resources for more people (overpopulation) including human jobs taken over by technology, inability to find employment that offers a minimal standard of living (healthy food, shelter, transportation, medical insurance) let alone offers retirement savings.
Your last sentence was dismissive. You fail to compare concerns of past generations with current concerns facing not only millennials but most of the Earth's inhabitants -climate change, fewer resources for more people (overpopulation) including human jobs taken over by technology, inability to find employment that offers a minimal standard of living (healthy food, shelter, transportation, medical insurance) let alone offers retirement savings.
6
Terry, I must be the same age as you, went through the same drills. They were frightening, but the stress Millenials have had to deal with is that just being in a classroom or any public place could mean instant death. Nuclear war did not happen. But kids have been slaughtered in classrooms.
5
The young people who are really suffering in this economy are not the tech savvy educated ones. Those who would have earned a living wage in the industrial sector 40 years ago will be stuck with service jobs for the rest of their lives. Bye bye middle class. This is a bad thing for society and the long term health of the economy. Remember, the US economy is 70% consumer spending.
Full time employment and health insurance are hard to come by. The political system has been completely dysfunctional for 8 years. A circus clown won a presidential primary!! We are living a dystopian future. I hear a lot of boomers telling us to buck up. We didn't create this world, and I don't know anyone who isn't trying to make things work. It's time for the boomers to put on their golden parachutes, get out of the way and let us get started cleaning up the mess.
Full time employment and health insurance are hard to come by. The political system has been completely dysfunctional for 8 years. A circus clown won a presidential primary!! We are living a dystopian future. I hear a lot of boomers telling us to buck up. We didn't create this world, and I don't know anyone who isn't trying to make things work. It's time for the boomers to put on their golden parachutes, get out of the way and let us get started cleaning up the mess.
3
Vera
You assume the majority of boomers have a "golden parachute", which isn't factual.
I empathize with millennials, but boomers are not your enemy.
Most of us didn't have company pensions, our retirements were invested in housing and stocks. We lost most if not all savings during the market meltdowns and the resulting layoffs during which it became virtually impossible for anyone over 45 to find another job paying a living wage, college degrees and experience be damned.
Then there is the issue of spiraling health care costs and supporting parents (who are living longer) and/or children.
One can't retire without resources.
You assume the majority of boomers have a "golden parachute", which isn't factual.
I empathize with millennials, but boomers are not your enemy.
Most of us didn't have company pensions, our retirements were invested in housing and stocks. We lost most if not all savings during the market meltdowns and the resulting layoffs during which it became virtually impossible for anyone over 45 to find another job paying a living wage, college degrees and experience be damned.
Then there is the issue of spiraling health care costs and supporting parents (who are living longer) and/or children.
One can't retire without resources.
2
Go for it.
Like most Boomers, I started working when I was 16 years old as a waitress, then as a young widowed mother of two small children, I went back to school and got a (useful) college degree, so I could make a decent living and support my family. But we were poor. Really poor, scary poor, cold and hungry poor.
I have worked a total of 50 years, while saving and investing all my disposable incomes (no vacations or 'academic years abroad' for me!), so that I would not be a burden to my children in my old age and in order to gift them 20% down payment on their first homes, so they will never be old and poor.
So the next time you accuse Boomers of living off the fat of the land, try to remember we are the generation that changed everything - civil rights, women's rights, environmentalism, ending the draft, and ending a war (with a draft...imagine that!) - what have Millennials done lately?
Or ever?
Like most Boomers, I started working when I was 16 years old as a waitress, then as a young widowed mother of two small children, I went back to school and got a (useful) college degree, so I could make a decent living and support my family. But we were poor. Really poor, scary poor, cold and hungry poor.
I have worked a total of 50 years, while saving and investing all my disposable incomes (no vacations or 'academic years abroad' for me!), so that I would not be a burden to my children in my old age and in order to gift them 20% down payment on their first homes, so they will never be old and poor.
So the next time you accuse Boomers of living off the fat of the land, try to remember we are the generation that changed everything - civil rights, women's rights, environmentalism, ending the draft, and ending a war (with a draft...imagine that!) - what have Millennials done lately?
Or ever?
8
So true. Also a lot of coding is being out-sourced to India, where the salary rates are 1/5 that of the USA, so coding is not necessarily a 'safe bet' concerning job security. Nurses, electricians, plumbers, mechanics, etc are all safer professions as these cannot easily be outsourced or automated.
4
Much of the advice to millennials is that they have to figure out how to survive or succeed within the current system. But not only is the current system giving them a raw deal (on college costs and the availability of good jobs), it also does not look to be either able or interested in long-term stability.
3
The only thing wrong with earning $90,000 after a few months of coding school is that every employer will be looking for ways to reduce that cost, whether it's sending the jobs to India or creating robots to do the work. See, the goal of business ownership is to have minimal costs and maximum profits to the owners.
10
Workers could organize for protection against management.
Also re-introduce the graduated income tax system of the '60s.
Or live with uncertainty.
Also re-introduce the graduated income tax system of the '60s.
Or live with uncertainty.
4
Another factor at play here: parents. I'm a late-generation boomer born in the mid-1950's. My parents were brought up in the Great Depression, and were incredibly careful with money and job security, and carrying NO debt except a mortgage. That overarching experience was passed on to me, not as paranoia, but as extreme care with financial issues. I'm not sure the parents of Millennials have had the kinds of truly awful experiences sufficient to inoculate their kids to truly existential financial threats, so the children are compelled to learn the hard way, in real time.
6
Millennials.......don't believe Boomer revisionist history. The comments here remind me of the joke: "When I was a child I had to walk 10 miles to school. In the snow. And it was uphill both ways."
As a Boomer myself, I can tell you:
---One parent with a single skill set could reasonably expect a lifelong job that would support a family and send the kids to college. Our parents didn't have to keep going back to school and reinventing themselves because their jobs were replaced by automation or sent overseas. The middle-class wasn't shrinking, capitalism wasn't so predatory, Wall Street and corporations weren't out of control. (It is true.....houses were much smaller. Today's "starter homes" were enough for a lifetime. And people didn't waste money on buying so much junk.)
---People were upset by assassinations and the Cold War nuclear threat, but it hardly compares to today's fears of mass shootings at schools, movie theaters, and other common public places.
---Though jobs have never been plentiful in the humanities and arts, knowledge, talent and a "classical education" were respected, not like the contempt you read in these comments.
I could go on and on. It's true, Boomers made progress with civil rights and gender equality, but in too many other ways we've made a mess of this country. A healthy society is one in which the most people are able to actualize their innate talents. Good luck to Ms. Boshart.....your cabaret act sounds fantastic.
As a Boomer myself, I can tell you:
---One parent with a single skill set could reasonably expect a lifelong job that would support a family and send the kids to college. Our parents didn't have to keep going back to school and reinventing themselves because their jobs were replaced by automation or sent overseas. The middle-class wasn't shrinking, capitalism wasn't so predatory, Wall Street and corporations weren't out of control. (It is true.....houses were much smaller. Today's "starter homes" were enough for a lifetime. And people didn't waste money on buying so much junk.)
---People were upset by assassinations and the Cold War nuclear threat, but it hardly compares to today's fears of mass shootings at schools, movie theaters, and other common public places.
---Though jobs have never been plentiful in the humanities and arts, knowledge, talent and a "classical education" were respected, not like the contempt you read in these comments.
I could go on and on. It's true, Boomers made progress with civil rights and gender equality, but in too many other ways we've made a mess of this country. A healthy society is one in which the most people are able to actualize their innate talents. Good luck to Ms. Boshart.....your cabaret act sounds fantastic.
24
Well said. Sometimes I think if a humanities education were more respected, we would have less people willing to repeat the worst of history.
5
gw
Perhaps in your experience as an older boomer could a family survive one one income, but the boomer generation extends to those born in 1964. As one of the "youngest" boomers I can assure you our experiences were quite different from each other.
The middle class has been shrinking since the late 1980s, the Reagan years when the government became unleashed capitalism's best friend. Don't believe it? Just google real income shrinkage U.S. from 1980s to 2015.
Like many, I had to reinvent myself several times as there was no loyalty to employees, no pensions offered (401k only), lower pay for women in the same positions as men (still a problem but we made even less then). These issues aren't new, they're just getting worse.
As for shootings and terrorism, I'm pretty sure the anxiety is felt by all ages. We can curb the violence by addressing gun control.
Perhaps in your experience as an older boomer could a family survive one one income, but the boomer generation extends to those born in 1964. As one of the "youngest" boomers I can assure you our experiences were quite different from each other.
The middle class has been shrinking since the late 1980s, the Reagan years when the government became unleashed capitalism's best friend. Don't believe it? Just google real income shrinkage U.S. from 1980s to 2015.
Like many, I had to reinvent myself several times as there was no loyalty to employees, no pensions offered (401k only), lower pay for women in the same positions as men (still a problem but we made even less then). These issues aren't new, they're just getting worse.
As for shootings and terrorism, I'm pretty sure the anxiety is felt by all ages. We can curb the violence by addressing gun control.
4
You know whose life is in flux? (I'm referring to the title from the print version which is ""Seattle's Young Face a Future Scary Flux.") The kid to the left of this front page essay. I have deep empathy for the difficulties and pain of ordinary life, and in no way want to minimize the struggles of the subjects of this article. Life is hard, and pretending it's otherwise helps no one. And I'm almost glad the New York Times ran this right next to the child from Aleppo's picture. Because whatever struggles we have here in the US, few of us will ever experience the kind of trauma millions of people live with in much of the world. Playing to fears like this article does mocks the genuine safety, comfort, and support that is available to Americans, and putting it right next to a photo of total chaos demeans the suffering of the truly desperate.
13
I don't get the pessimism of my generation. I work in tech, have just finished paying my student loans, and feel like I'm definitely on the way up. It's easy to save money if you make it past $20/ hour, which is small change in the tech world, and I for one am not giving up on social security at all. There's a piece of my paycheck going to it twice a month, so I will use all the political power I've got (and supposedly us millennials are a pretty big demographic) to make sure it gets paid back to me when I retire.
In my opinion, tech is the new blue collar. Manufacturing is dead and will never come back, but tech jobs have the same kind of potential -even for the less skilled of my generation. We are digital natives after all.
Why can't we make it just as well or better than the boomers? I don't see any reason why we can't. Economy is good, companies are hiring, as long as you have useful skills. College may be expensive but is still a good investment. It helped get me a great job and made me a better person.
In my opinion, tech is the new blue collar. Manufacturing is dead and will never come back, but tech jobs have the same kind of potential -even for the less skilled of my generation. We are digital natives after all.
Why can't we make it just as well or better than the boomers? I don't see any reason why we can't. Economy is good, companies are hiring, as long as you have useful skills. College may be expensive but is still a good investment. It helped get me a great job and made me a better person.
7
As a Gen-Xer who grew up in Seattle and can no longer afford to live there, this article sounds very familiar to me. Are things really worse now? In terms of political discourse and climate change, yes. But debt and the struggle to attain stability in an era of relatively stagnant wages in a boom or bust economy? I grew up watching Boeing lay off people by the thousands when airplane orders fell short. Families lost houses, friends moved out of town. I went to college in the grunge years and am still paying off loans, as are many people my age. Speaking from my own experience, this has been the American way for decades now. We just didn't prepare our kids for it.
5
You know whose life is in flux? (I'm referring to the title from the print version which is ""Seattle's Young Face a Future Scary Flux.") The kid to the left of this front page essay. I have deep empathy for the difficulties and pain of ordinary life, and in no way want to minimize the struggles of the subjects of this article. Life is hard, and pretending it's otherwise helps no one. And I'm almost glad the New York Times ran this right next to the child from Aleppo's picture. Because whatever struggles we have here in the US, few of us will ever experience the kind of trauma millions of people live with in much of the world. Playing to fears like this article does mocks the genuine safety, comfort, and support that is available to Americans, and putting it right next to a photo of total chaos demeans the suffering of the truly desperate.
1
Unfortunate that this article portrays these ambitious and talented women as neurotic and unduly burdened by banal anxieties (buying a house is expensive, Seattle is expensive, and...GMOs?). This no less from a cohort being trained in a growing and highly lucrative field and who are getting a free education.
As a millennial woman, I'm much more interested in hearing about the success of graduates from this program in breaking into the male-dominated field of computer science.
As a millennial woman, I'm much more interested in hearing about the success of graduates from this program in breaking into the male-dominated field of computer science.
4
Join the club. I've found if you go back to the original Founding Fathers, The Constitution, and work your way up, at least you have a big advantage over others who vote without knowing anything other than what you read in headlines or hear in soundbites or read on the internet.
Read all opinions from both sides, even the side you hate. Talk with those who are older than you...those who have grown up (seriously) and have learned through experience.
Vote and vote smart. If people had voted smart this election cycle, we wouldn't be stuck with the two political candidates we have now. One, a bully, the other a person with a shaky past. Both trying to rewrite their own past, but those who were there, know their history and aren't happy.
Read all opinions from both sides, even the side you hate. Talk with those who are older than you...those who have grown up (seriously) and have learned through experience.
Vote and vote smart. If people had voted smart this election cycle, we wouldn't be stuck with the two political candidates we have now. One, a bully, the other a person with a shaky past. Both trying to rewrite their own past, but those who were there, know their history and aren't happy.
4
Many of us have done everything right - everything that our parents and society has told us will lead to a solid future. We have degrees, we have jobs. But I think many older people don't realize that it's not enough anymore to just check those items off the list. I think compared to the cost of living in my area, I probably get paid much less than my parents did at my age. It has been difficult to find not only jobs but good jobs. My husband graduated from law school in 2011 - He was at the top of his class but couldn't find a job for a year. I am a teacher, now settled with a great district, but I worked part-time for 3 years after receiving my certification. And, one last thing, tuition bills are exponentially more expensive today. So, yes, many of us do feel defeated even after trying to make the best choices for our futures.
8
Yes, the political process seems broken. Get involved and try to move it in the direction you want it to go. The Bernie movement was a moderate success is moving the democratic platform leftward. Now they have to keep at it for the next 4 years and in elections other than president.
"Ms. Spicer, who studied philosophy and the history of science at St. John’s College in Annapolis, Md., has had jobs as a barista, a taxi dispatcher and a deli worker. She has $72,000 of student debt "
These situations are troubling, for a number of reasons, the higher education industry being towards the top of the list. Its also just a really, really poor decision on Ms. Spicer's part. What job did you expect to get with that degree and why did you choose to spend $72,000+ that you didn't have on it?
"Ms. Spicer, who studied philosophy and the history of science at St. John’s College in Annapolis, Md., has had jobs as a barista, a taxi dispatcher and a deli worker. She has $72,000 of student debt "
These situations are troubling, for a number of reasons, the higher education industry being towards the top of the list. Its also just a really, really poor decision on Ms. Spicer's part. What job did you expect to get with that degree and why did you choose to spend $72,000+ that you didn't have on it?
2
The angst of millennials gets a bit tiring, particularly the references to how much easier it must have been for baby boomers. The economy in the late 60s and early 70s was not great and by the mid- to late 70s much worse, there were fewer programs for training outside of college, the serious crime rates were high and constantly getting higher, inflation rates were high and then there was the draft feeding that pesky war.
True, college costs have become outrageous, even on a dollar adjusted basis, but what really seems to have changed is the expectation that one could check all of the boxes by the time one was 30; financial stability, something in the bank for retirement, home ownership. At least in my stratum, we knew that if we ever achieved that (and I have a Ph.D in the sciences), it would likely take decades of hard work and some luck. Many of the folks featured in this and similar articles made poor choices earlier, whether partly or wholly a result of imposed conditions, or because they simply felt they didn't need to work hard early on and get an education in a field that had some rational chance of reward. Friends of mine that made similar choices spent the rest of their lives at poor paying jobs, a single paycheck from deep poverty. That those millennials featured have made a positive step for themselves is laudable, that they think their angst about their future is unique is not.
True, college costs have become outrageous, even on a dollar adjusted basis, but what really seems to have changed is the expectation that one could check all of the boxes by the time one was 30; financial stability, something in the bank for retirement, home ownership. At least in my stratum, we knew that if we ever achieved that (and I have a Ph.D in the sciences), it would likely take decades of hard work and some luck. Many of the folks featured in this and similar articles made poor choices earlier, whether partly or wholly a result of imposed conditions, or because they simply felt they didn't need to work hard early on and get an education in a field that had some rational chance of reward. Friends of mine that made similar choices spent the rest of their lives at poor paying jobs, a single paycheck from deep poverty. That those millennials featured have made a positive step for themselves is laudable, that they think their angst about their future is unique is not.
20
As a boomer with two millenia children, I have to say that their generation is better than mine. We talked the talk, they're figuring out how to walk the walk.
6
Student debt has become some form of a regressive tax that one must pay in order to join the workforce. And who benefits most from this? Banks and colleges, each with their exorbitant fees.
6
Don't forget the federal government which took the loan programs into the ACA legislation with a mandated 6.8% interest rate.
3
Why not start training programs like this for other professions, trades and vocations?
4
It is not the system, it is the people (selfish politicians).
Systems are made of components, in this case politicians.
It is always amusing when these same politicians, living in Washington as elected officials, say that the system is broken! They are the system.
It is not too complicated.
Systems are made of components, in this case politicians.
It is always amusing when these same politicians, living in Washington as elected officials, say that the system is broken! They are the system.
It is not too complicated.
4
So who is electing these selfish politicians??
3
Mine is the first generation since perhaps the dawn of the industrial revolution to have a lower standard of living than our parents....and still the oldies come out and tell us that they had it just as hard. I'm sorry, but there are such things as facts and figures and they utterly disprove whatever rose-tinted memories of struggle you may have.
5
It is true that our current conditions are not ideal. And many young people are truly admirable. But there is also a lack of responsibility, character, honesty, and integrity that is part of our current society, in the young and old. As a faculty member I have witnessed it in the young adults who do not want to take classes and arrive to work early because they don't want to get up early. But those are few. The problem these young people are suffering is the result of education becoming a business with universities that have too much administration with high salaries.
6
It's really the failure of baby boomers to raise real world ready adults that this is addressing. Millennials are full of expectations, thinking that they start at their parents standard of living and go up. The idea of starting at the beginning, and taking the journey to success (however defined) seems utterly lost on this self centered, whiney generation
5
A couple things come to mind reading articles like this. The first has to do with the following two quotes:
> “As people get paid more and work in tech jobs, rents and housing go up and gentrification happens, know how to solve it.”
> “The political system seems so overwhelmingly broken that I have no idea what to do about it.”
I mean, it's great to be concerned about that type of thing. But it's an ongoing, ever changing lifetime of a problem. People of every generation have had these same concerns.
My fellow millennials need to learn how to stop worrying and love the bomb (or whatever today's equivalent is... Probably a bomb, now that I think of it).
The second thing is there are plenty of millennials with great jobs, homes, 401k's, marriages, and kids. It's doable with hard work and a little luck.
Many millennials (like the ones in this article) seem to be so risk averse and scared of taking any kind of leap that life is leaving them behind and they're sitting in their apartment petrified of going outside.
> “As people get paid more and work in tech jobs, rents and housing go up and gentrification happens, know how to solve it.”
> “The political system seems so overwhelmingly broken that I have no idea what to do about it.”
I mean, it's great to be concerned about that type of thing. But it's an ongoing, ever changing lifetime of a problem. People of every generation have had these same concerns.
My fellow millennials need to learn how to stop worrying and love the bomb (or whatever today's equivalent is... Probably a bomb, now that I think of it).
The second thing is there are plenty of millennials with great jobs, homes, 401k's, marriages, and kids. It's doable with hard work and a little luck.
Many millennials (like the ones in this article) seem to be so risk averse and scared of taking any kind of leap that life is leaving them behind and they're sitting in their apartment petrified of going outside.
2
All the Adies seem to be worrying about everything but the one thing they should be worrying about: robots powered by AI taking away all their programming jobs. Just a matter of time.
2
I find it very hard to sympathize with someone who has the outlook to earn 90K starting salary with a couple of months of coding classes. If NYT wants to get an accurate portrayal of what the mood is out there, try asking someone who has spent 8 years in school culminating with a professional degree in which one may hope to earn that level after about 20 yrs of seniority and experience, but at the least they can contribute something to society instead of contributing another useless app to the apple store.
3
This is an article about attitudes and beliefs. To quote the Bard, there is nothing good or bad, but thinking makes it so. If these people think life is bad and the future worst, then it is so for them. But please do not mourn the loss of an non-existing past. When people say how much better the past was, I always ask "which past?". Pick any time in history when 'everything was great' and it will be easy to find examples proving it was not so. Life is hard and difficult and it will always be so. Perhaps what is really happening here is the logical outcome of coddled, play-dated, helicopter parented generation finally crashing up against reality.
5
I'm a "millennial" whatever that really means. I've played by the rules. I have a job, a graduate degree, and a decent yet manageable amount of student debt.
I'd really appreciate it if all the "bootstrap boomers" who have been at the helm of this country for the past 40 years could take ownership, just for once for the collapse of the middle class, stagnant and/or declining wages, the explosion of wealth of the 0.1%, the failures of all their peers in the private and public sectors, and the numerous self-inflicted economic disasters over the decades.
Then. Then! We can have a discussion about how "lazy and entitled" myself and my fellow "millennials" are.
I'd really appreciate it if all the "bootstrap boomers" who have been at the helm of this country for the past 40 years could take ownership, just for once for the collapse of the middle class, stagnant and/or declining wages, the explosion of wealth of the 0.1%, the failures of all their peers in the private and public sectors, and the numerous self-inflicted economic disasters over the decades.
Then. Then! We can have a discussion about how "lazy and entitled" myself and my fellow "millennials" are.
7
Every generation has it tough, the systems is rigged against them most of the time. However, the pace and scale for the current generation is by far the worst. The systems is almost fully rigged against them. From lifelong debt, to highly insecure jobs, leading to high anxeity, delayed independence, delayed marriages and children. Most of them will have to become 'waiters', you know, waiting for parents to die and collect inheritance.
(btw, did NYT comments take away spell check?)
(btw, did NYT comments take away spell check?)
3
I graduated from undergrad in 2001, then law school in 2009. I'm not a millennial, but just think about that timing. Think about what that does to a career. It's like graduating into a slightly lesser version of the depression--twice!
I feel your pain millennials. And don't get me started on student loan debt.
I feel your pain millennials. And don't get me started on student loan debt.
4
It does seem fitting that Amazon that has boarded up many small retail business is funding an educational institution than holds out hope for some techies, but their skills will sometime find themselves embedded in the robotics coming fast to slew other employment fields. The future is not bright but not hopeless either if government can be made to function by breaking the Broken System. Its happened before in the beginning of the last century and the discontent is there, if focused, to make it happen again. Go Millennials and find a way to put our Representatives back to work fixing the problem of massive inequality -- someday.
The scary future will arrive once we (very soon) reach 1.5C warming and then beyond the threshold. After that everyone here will have nowhere to turn to but religion for any kind of security. Boomers got to have their fun, the Greatest Generation got their rewards for their work and sacrifices, but we truly have the Sword of Damocles over our heads. At this point it's inevitable, unlike it was with the Cold War (which, incidentally, never actually ended).
We look at hard work as the only moral measure for being an American, but it is this giant economic machine that is destroying our planet and our collective future.
We need every ounce of mobilization now to prevent this from being true. Get off of the Internet, get out there and fight for it.
We look at hard work as the only moral measure for being an American, but it is this giant economic machine that is destroying our planet and our collective future.
We need every ounce of mobilization now to prevent this from being true. Get off of the Internet, get out there and fight for it.
5
Millennials, we need to get a grip. Even if you work at Starbucks your life is amazing, and it's extreme entitlement combined with a lack of perspective that makes you think you deserve more. If you make $32,400 or more you are in the top 1% of wealth worldwide. That is not hyperbole. That means you are literally better off than 99% of humanity if you make $15.58 an hour. Your life is not hard. You do not lack opportunities. In fact, you are supremely lucky to have been born into such obscene wealth. Never forget that there are literally billions of less lucky people on the planet that would trade places with you in a second if given the opportunity. You are not better than they are. You do not deserve to have more than they do. From one millennial to another, a little humility would be refreshing.
37
I absolutely LOATHE it when this sort of example is used. A salary of 32k is a fortune in third world countries where the average rent for a tin hut in someplace similar to Mumbai is probably $20 per month!
This is an utterly useless analogy.
This is an utterly useless analogy.
3
So the average person is supposed to be grateful that they are not in poverty in India or Bangladesh or in a war zone like Syria and relish their crumbs while some sit on top of the world with their $62 million a year salaries? The 1% have obscene wealth, not those making $32,400.
6
Ms. Boshart is leery of buying a home. Not sure how much housing prices have gone up in that soggy overrated part of Washington, but taking a hard look at buying vs. renting costs is a good idea.
1
One thing for sure is that the people profiled in this article don't have to worry about food insecurity. Secondly, using issues beyond your control, such as "climate change" and the tone of politics, to explain anxiety and one's failure to succeed are simply signs of immaturity. Focus on what's important.
2
Aw poor Seattle Millenials! You mean they're learning that life isn't fair? Are they realizing that dreams don't always come true?
I'm so saddened for them - I hope they can overcome the scariness of the real world.
I'm so saddened for them - I hope they can overcome the scariness of the real world.
4
Struggling to pinpoint the journalistic value here. Was the goal to extrapolate to the concerns and anxieties of the Millennial generation in general, or to do a piece about how changing patterns of interstate migration have affected the character of the Seattle metropolitan area? Neither objective seems to have been advanced by choosing to interview only students at Ada Academy, which itself is not even typical of the IT bootcamps operating in the Seattle area. I think the author is trying to argue that Ada's students are somehow typical of the generation's economic winners and extrapolate that even that demographic is unhappy with the direction of the country. Perhaps there's something of merit there, but as it was published I'd summarize this article as "I talked to half a dozen students at a women-only boutique coding school in a metro area that doesn't really resemble the rest of the country, and they all said they don't like the Donald and want to graduate so they can make more money." With so many unemployed journalism school graduates out there, one thinks Kirk might have felt compelled to dig a little deeper.
6
Could not agree more..... I have come back to this story a few times trying to figure out what it was I missed that was so good it was in the Times. Sounds like a few anecdotes from a couple of people the author knows----but where is the analysis, context and data?
2
Nothing is permanent in life. She just has to keep working, and hopes that the job will continue to be there for her. And while she's at it, stocking away chunks of wages for retirement or rainy day funds, she should realize by now that sometimes hiding it under the mattress *is* safer than putting it in the bank. At least her mattress won't charge her ongoing fees just to let the money sit there for next to nothing in return.
2
I know people who went to Ada academy and feel this article kind of misses the real story in an attempt to tell a predetermined narrative about the US economy and the milleniall generation. Knowing what I know about the Seattle tech scene and coding schools such as Ada, I can say with confidence that people are improving their quality of life and economic prospects by going through these programs. I went through a rival program in Seattle and emerged with a good job at a digital media company located in New York. I'd say 90% of my class got full time jobs at wide range of companies including Microsoft, Concur, and Zillow, making salaries of $60-$70K a year. Ada is doubly admirable because of its concerted attempt to bring gender equality to the tech economy, in which women remain grossly underrepresented.
The reality is the economy is doing very well in Seattle, and if you have the desire, the perseverance, and some aptitude, you can make a living as a programmer right now.
The reality is the economy is doing very well in Seattle, and if you have the desire, the perseverance, and some aptitude, you can make a living as a programmer right now.
19
As a millenial, I do think that our parents, the Baby Boomers, stuck us with an enormous bill in the form of huge college debt and a broken healthcare system. I'm definitely fortunate to make quite a bit of money but nothing feels at all assured. Agree with the sentiments expressed here even though the sample size of 2 is a little low.
3
I'm a baby boomer and didn't stick anyone with an enormous debt. My 3 children attended a local public university and all are doing just fine. My wife and I paid for all their educations. And don't blame us for the healthcare system which the vast majority of us had nothing to do with.
3
What do you mean, "the vast majority of us had nothing to do with"? Is this not a free country? Did we not elect those who run it? There's no excuse for the health care, economic, environmental, etc. disasters handed down to Millenials. And I say this as a baby boomer myself.
4
Two important points.
First, the average student loan debt is around $25,000 and median debt is around $15,000. I feel for the person profiled who has $72,000 in debt and no good employment prospects, but NY Times and other outlets need to stop reinforcing widely held misconceptions about student debt levels. (David Leonhardt at your own paper can help out.)
Second, her family lost all of their college savings in your dot com bust "in the early 2000s". She is 31. This means that when she was no younger than 16, the family had all of their college savings in individual dot com stocks. Once more, sympathetic for her plight, but that was a very poor investment decision. Perhaps the reporter should have focused on that rather than trying to make this some sort of generational lesson.
First, the average student loan debt is around $25,000 and median debt is around $15,000. I feel for the person profiled who has $72,000 in debt and no good employment prospects, but NY Times and other outlets need to stop reinforcing widely held misconceptions about student debt levels. (David Leonhardt at your own paper can help out.)
Second, her family lost all of their college savings in your dot com bust "in the early 2000s". She is 31. This means that when she was no younger than 16, the family had all of their college savings in individual dot com stocks. Once more, sympathetic for her plight, but that was a very poor investment decision. Perhaps the reporter should have focused on that rather than trying to make this some sort of generational lesson.
34
It's all the more a shame that people feel this level of fear and insecurity for the future that is completely manufactured by corporate policy as employers. They require credentialization and students to pay for them with so little commitment the credentials are not worth the paper they're written on or are deemed outdated almost the moment they are printed. What would change this? Simple, more on the job training to learn things like it used to be in all but a few professions. Even medicine and law, which require doctorate level education developed from professions that were learned elbow to elbow until relatively recently and in many respects, are still taught that way even in formal education programs. Another advantage to more in house training even supplemented with formal training is that the wanna be gets a taste of what they're getting into sooner giving them a chance to change their mind. It returns to all work a greater respect for the effort of work that now goes unvalued as opposed to often bogus credentials. Last, by demanding that employers put more skin in the game, it will make them more responsible about what they want employees to be trained in. As it stands now, a college degree is used as a proxy, to lousy result I might add, to being work groomed, with professional behavior, good work habits, an ability to write and think. College does many things but it does not do this.
12
As the mother of two millennials, I totally understand. My daughter and her soon-to-be finance recently explained that they were very seriously considering whether to have children- though both had always assumed they would. They are 27 and 29, both have good jobs and no student debt. I asked my daughter what had changed and was shocked by the passion with which she spoke about a broken political system, job security, no pensions and the incredible cost of housing, raising kids and getting them through college. They see it through a prism of either/or- you have children, or you can MAYBE retire with enough to live on in old age. These are two very hard-working, ambitious and FRUGAL young people. I explained that people have always worried about the cost of raising a family.... but deep down, as a boomer, I'm not even sure I would have children again if I were starting out now.
21
As a 50 y/o IT manager, I feel like I'm writing this for my "younger self", and it sounds so cliche. "Be ready to be life long learner". Windows 3.1 turned quickly to Windows 3.11 and then Windows 98, etc. etc. If you work in a small shop and you have multiple responsibilities it's a lot more difficult than just reading a "dummies book". Trust me, it becomes much more difficult as you age, AND, if you think you're going to couple that with many other multiple interests. (excluding family responsibilities), forget it, you're probably already toast. To make it feasible, we need to move toward a 24 hour work week, with about the same "full time" wages. That might work, to keep any semblance of family structure in place. I never realized that while I was helping improve the bottom line through installs and automation and training, that I was installing my way right out of a job, and never fully shared in the efficiency I helped to create. Be smart. Know your worth, and learn to negotiate or find someone that can do that for you.
17
Go ahead and work 24 hours a week. I'll keep working 60 because (gasp!) I like to work. So will most Chinese and Indian professionals I know. Let's see what happens with your wages then.
1
That's wonderful Jack, I applaud your work ethic. I don't mind hard work, but I'd like to have some time left over to pursue personal interests. As I've aged, I'm realizing the cost/benefit just isn't there, especially if it is for the sole purpose of "keeping up with the Jones' "
3
At some point in the very near future, we are all going to have to reassess what we mean by 'making it'. I am a baby boomer and due to a divorce at forty, right in the beginning of my fledgling career as an artist, I decided that 'making it' was going to have to mean something completely different.
The life of poverty that I had been fearing while contemplating leaving my comfortable but increasingly stifling situation, became the source of my joyous liberation from all the unnecessaries of life. Since then I have made my way by my wits and the sweat of my brows, making art by whatever means and method I could find. I've loved and continue to love every moment of it.
Nothing, as we move forward into what is going to be our new normal, will resemble anything we have seen before in our or our parent's or grandparent's life. Some might call it apocalyptic, chaotic, hopeless. Those would be the people who aren't prepared to take on the challenges of the breakdown of what we have taken for granted. But ultimately, the tremendous rewards to those who do, will make the coming future the most exciting time they have ever experienced.
I am sixty six and I am thrilled to be alive in this splendidly tumultuous time. We have been asleep, lulled by the false security of an economic system that borrowed from the future to sustain itself, but the loan has been called. Those times are over. It's time to wake up. Time to embrace the chance to change. Time to evolve!
The life of poverty that I had been fearing while contemplating leaving my comfortable but increasingly stifling situation, became the source of my joyous liberation from all the unnecessaries of life. Since then I have made my way by my wits and the sweat of my brows, making art by whatever means and method I could find. I've loved and continue to love every moment of it.
Nothing, as we move forward into what is going to be our new normal, will resemble anything we have seen before in our or our parent's or grandparent's life. Some might call it apocalyptic, chaotic, hopeless. Those would be the people who aren't prepared to take on the challenges of the breakdown of what we have taken for granted. But ultimately, the tremendous rewards to those who do, will make the coming future the most exciting time they have ever experienced.
I am sixty six and I am thrilled to be alive in this splendidly tumultuous time. We have been asleep, lulled by the false security of an economic system that borrowed from the future to sustain itself, but the loan has been called. Those times are over. It's time to wake up. Time to embrace the chance to change. Time to evolve!
18
This is simply lazy thinking, "He (young fireman Mr. Lundy) said he liked Mr. Sanders partly because a Sanders insurgency “would be best at reforming the party, or tearing it apart from the inside.” He also applauded Mr. Trump’s antics, which Mr. Lundy believes will shatter the Republican Party, too. Either way, he added, a shake-up is coming. “Things are going to have to burn before they get better,” he said." Yes, let's start with voting against special property tax levies that keep the fire department where he works going and get rid of any future - guaranteed - benefits he might get.
This is not some apocalypse movie. This is America. Want something to crash and burn? Head for Syria. Otherwise, figure out one way to make America better and do it. As John F. Kennedy said, "Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what YOU can do for your country."
This is not some apocalypse movie. This is America. Want something to crash and burn? Head for Syria. Otherwise, figure out one way to make America better and do it. As John F. Kennedy said, "Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what YOU can do for your country."
82
I agree. Since the 1960's I have been hearing "things got to get worst to get better" and "tear it down to build it up" by all the young angry people. You tear things down and all you get is rubble.
5
While I do see the point of the article I hasten to add when I got out of grad school in 1981 there was a pounding depression and jobs were scarce. You scrambled to get anything to put a roof over your head and something to eat. The recession finally ended but my life hasn't been milk and honey every year.
The world as we know has changed again for these younger people who are living in a "sharing economy" that they have largely created. I am far more concerned for the blue collar workers. Not everyone can be a coder and so many blue collar jobs have evaporated before our eyes.
The world as we know has changed again for these younger people who are living in a "sharing economy" that they have largely created. I am far more concerned for the blue collar workers. Not everyone can be a coder and so many blue collar jobs have evaporated before our eyes.
42
Obviously anyone with any sense understands your point, but the snow flakes need some love and attention.
2
New rule: everyone complaining about "kids these days" and how dumb they are to take out student loans has to post:
(1) Their age
(2) The year they finished college (if they went), and
(3) How much the annual tuition was then.
Many commenters are *completely* out of touch with modern reality, if they think that students now can avoid taking out loans just by "working harder". As if they weren't already doing that.
The fact is that practically every decent entry-level job these days requires a college degree. And there are very, very few "cheap" options to obtain one.
Here in New York State, even if you take the cheapest possible educational route (2 years of community college + 2 years at a public university), you can still graduate with upwards of $50K in debt once you factor in housing, textbooks, etc. Times have changed!!
(1) Their age
(2) The year they finished college (if they went), and
(3) How much the annual tuition was then.
Many commenters are *completely* out of touch with modern reality, if they think that students now can avoid taking out loans just by "working harder". As if they weren't already doing that.
The fact is that practically every decent entry-level job these days requires a college degree. And there are very, very few "cheap" options to obtain one.
Here in New York State, even if you take the cheapest possible educational route (2 years of community college + 2 years at a public university), you can still graduate with upwards of $50K in debt once you factor in housing, textbooks, etc. Times have changed!!
85
Age. 58. Year graduated 1980. Tuition and room and board, public Ivy, William and Mary, in state VA tuition. About $10k. Today, about $20 k. Federal job, salary capped at $155k for over 10 years, by law. Student debt, $0 student debt at graduation, $0.
Any other questions?
Any other questions?
9
"new rule"? Seriously? This is part of the problem with some (by no means not all) millennials. They want to control everything and have things easy and handed to them, otherwise it's the "older peoples' fault", or the government's fault, or politicians' fault. Here is a fact for you to consider -- most millennials have had good support from their parents, and their grandparents. So-called "older people" have been paying taxes since before you were born, some before your parents were born, and many boomers are still working and paying taxes that support the college you may have attended (particularly state/community), and government services you rely on in your day-to-day life. Regarding college costs, yes they're expensive. Always has been. There is an alternative that takes longer -- pay as you go, work and take classes at night. Scores of people who work and are raising a family do it every day. Particularly if you're living at home and have no family of your own to support, this is a viable option. It just takes work, discipline and commitment.
6
Adjusted for inflation -- and by the way, the minimum wage is higher too -- this isn't any different from when I graduated college. In 1980.
Where was Bernie Sanders and his free stuff when I needed him?
Where was Bernie Sanders and his free stuff when I needed him?
Much of the change that could solve this problem would come by resisting the forces that contribute to the rise of oligarchy, corporate domination of our lives, and rising income inequality.
Unfortunately for millennials (and many others) our addiction to technology is compounding those problems—not because technology itself is evil—but because the ravenous new-capitalists that run these entities are greedy beyond measure. Coding is not the cure. But turning off your damn phone and engaging the world, your community, your friends, and enemies face to face would be a great start.
Unfortunately for millennials (and many others) our addiction to technology is compounding those problems—not because technology itself is evil—but because the ravenous new-capitalists that run these entities are greedy beyond measure. Coding is not the cure. But turning off your damn phone and engaging the world, your community, your friends, and enemies face to face would be a great start.
22
First of all I work and live in the Seattle area. I still work in IT but things have changed and I feel lucky to be working. When I first arrived here the tech industry was in its infancy almost. I got a gig at a software development company only knowing Word and the PC. That doesn't happen anymore. You have to either have a CS degree. some other technical degree or experience that is still relevant. Hard to do sometimes because the demands keep changing.
The job market has narrowed and become more specialized. There is a great deal of competition for work. This is something millennials should be aware of.
With the HI B's and green cards we are now competing with people from Asia, India, Russia and other far off lands. They are skilled and they are willing sometimes to take less money and work longer hours. This has been a great change and impact felt by many.
Offshoring was big and still is but now offshore owned companies also own projects.
I think it's a good thing to acquire skills but you need to also have things that make you more competitive. Younger workers have social media and other in demand skills including energy and enthusiasm. You need eyes wide open and opportunity. The salaries for coders has devalued. The kinds of coding has devalued.
Be prepared and realistic but most of all be willing to settle for less to start and look for opportunity where you land. Hard work will do it for you and so will persistence.
The job market has narrowed and become more specialized. There is a great deal of competition for work. This is something millennials should be aware of.
With the HI B's and green cards we are now competing with people from Asia, India, Russia and other far off lands. They are skilled and they are willing sometimes to take less money and work longer hours. This has been a great change and impact felt by many.
Offshoring was big and still is but now offshore owned companies also own projects.
I think it's a good thing to acquire skills but you need to also have things that make you more competitive. Younger workers have social media and other in demand skills including energy and enthusiasm. You need eyes wide open and opportunity. The salaries for coders has devalued. The kinds of coding has devalued.
Be prepared and realistic but most of all be willing to settle for less to start and look for opportunity where you land. Hard work will do it for you and so will persistence.
26
Setting aside the generational debate, I think there's another element to this story that gets short shrift. Are code-farms really worth the investment? Most of the research I've found suggests the outcomes are questionable.
To say it another way: most of the people who are successful in the prolific code schools popping up would probably have been successful anyway. The schools themselves are usually stylishly dressed warehouses with good internet. The teachers typically entrepreneurs not far removed from poverty themselves and/or former students. The professional networking tends to be the only real value add. All this is available more or less for free with a laptop and an internet connection.
At a low end price tag of $5,000 (without room and board), call me a skeptic. I think most programs top out around $20,000. Also consider these programs are typically only financed through private loans. Federal student loan protections need not apply. Good for you if you won a scholarship.
Either way, the industry is essentially designed to inflate the labor supply and reduce domestic wages. Once we hit a level where domestic employees are more cost effective than an H1B visa, eureka! The schools disappear. That's assuming of course traditional academia doesn't compensate beforehand.
Something tells me this isn't a very secure long term career trajectory. Not that coding was ever very secure. There are probably better ways to spend your time.
To say it another way: most of the people who are successful in the prolific code schools popping up would probably have been successful anyway. The schools themselves are usually stylishly dressed warehouses with good internet. The teachers typically entrepreneurs not far removed from poverty themselves and/or former students. The professional networking tends to be the only real value add. All this is available more or less for free with a laptop and an internet connection.
At a low end price tag of $5,000 (without room and board), call me a skeptic. I think most programs top out around $20,000. Also consider these programs are typically only financed through private loans. Federal student loan protections need not apply. Good for you if you won a scholarship.
Either way, the industry is essentially designed to inflate the labor supply and reduce domestic wages. Once we hit a level where domestic employees are more cost effective than an H1B visa, eureka! The schools disappear. That's assuming of course traditional academia doesn't compensate beforehand.
Something tells me this isn't a very secure long term career trajectory. Not that coding was ever very secure. There are probably better ways to spend your time.
12
Very well said, Andy. I thought the same thing when reading. These boot-camp type programs will not be a long-term solution for very many people.
1
Totally agreed about "code farms" and the long term benefit for workers. I've been in technology for a while and I observed the "outsourcing" of coding back in the 90's to overseas workers. What are the code farms teaching? Web site coding? There is not a high value in that career trajectory since much of it was (and still is) outsourced overseas. I see a saturated labor market with this skill.
"Millennial" is a stupid corporate term, just as "Boomer" is or any of the other divisive terms thought up by corporate advertising since circa 1950's. So, it doesn't matter your age, if you an adult you should be scared or to put it another way, gravely concerned, because it is quite obvious that our biosphere is collapsing (all known systems critical to our survival are in steep decline and with any one of these systems failing will mean the end of our existence). We live in a Plutocracy, not a democracy, and they are not interested in the people, they will protect the State, their State. We are indeed in great peril.
16
The difference between the "boomer" and "millennial" generations is real estate, not technology or feminism or greed.
Following WWII millions of returning veterans got super-low interest loans to buy very inexpensive housing (by current standards). The boomer generation acquired middle-class wealth by sitting on their property and watching it go up radically in price. For most Americans their primary financial asset is their house.
In 1965, an electrical engineer making $30,000 could by a handsome 4-bedroom home for $23,000 as my father did. In the year 2000 that same house could be resold at $600,000. But an electrical engineer is now making maybe $50,000 a year, not $700,000 a year. The previous earning-to-housing ratio is now radically shifted.
This is how the current generation is desperate straits - the cost of housing.
Following WWII millions of returning veterans got super-low interest loans to buy very inexpensive housing (by current standards). The boomer generation acquired middle-class wealth by sitting on their property and watching it go up radically in price. For most Americans their primary financial asset is their house.
In 1965, an electrical engineer making $30,000 could by a handsome 4-bedroom home for $23,000 as my father did. In the year 2000 that same house could be resold at $600,000. But an electrical engineer is now making maybe $50,000 a year, not $700,000 a year. The previous earning-to-housing ratio is now radically shifted.
This is how the current generation is desperate straits - the cost of housing.
63
@Jonathan - A good part of the current generation is living at home, the cost of housing is not a problem for them. Also, when you're starting out on your own you find a roommate(s) and share expenses, and move out on your own as you advance in your workplace. Also, not everyone's home in the middle class across the country increased that much in value, and you forget many had to continue to live in that house, it wasn't an investment.
4
This is so true. I live in the Bay Area. Not long after buying a house, I went to a block party to meet the neighbors. After the party, my husband and I were struck by the fact that of all the couples we met in their 30s, everyone was a doctor/lawyer/engineer/VP at a tech company. The couples (or singles) in their 50s/60s/70s were union electricians, traveling musicians, preschool teachers, construction workers. To live on the SAME street, you now need double the education/income you once needed.
2
An engineer making 30K in 1965 would have 20 yrs experience. A starting engineer would be make 7K.
And the house in 1965 was 1000 sq foot without AC or fancy granite countertops.
But yes, it is hard to buy a house where no new ones are being built.
And the house in 1965 was 1000 sq foot without AC or fancy granite countertops.
But yes, it is hard to buy a house where no new ones are being built.
The digital tech boom is nearing its end -- everything that was requested in the '80s has been built. A relatively new company like Facebook does not create hardware or software, but is really just an entertainment company like Disney.
And even if she gets a job, she might soon lose it to H-1B visas -- the same way other experienced software engineers are losing their jobs. Good reason to be pessimistic, because of the current political leadership the economy is still bleeding jobs.
More rich Americans at the cost of more poor Americans.
And even if she gets a job, she might soon lose it to H-1B visas -- the same way other experienced software engineers are losing their jobs. Good reason to be pessimistic, because of the current political leadership the economy is still bleeding jobs.
More rich Americans at the cost of more poor Americans.
32
Seriously. I live in Dallas and would much rather have a reliable HVAC technician at my ready disposal (as would thousands of my neighbors) or somebody who knew how to fix a lower control arm on my 4x4 than people who are writing code for yet another annoying I-Phone App or website where people can "shout" at one another.
2
Anyone tell these millennials about all the coding work being shipped off shore to India? Over the last few years I worked on a number of projects where pretty much all the coding was done off shore. The work left here was things like designing, testing and documentation.
Of course these women may do okay due to preferential hiring practices and such.
But personally, I don't think there's a great future in 'coding', at least over here.
Of course these women may do okay due to preferential hiring practices and such.
But personally, I don't think there's a great future in 'coding', at least over here.
29
I've been in startup tech for 10 years and I've yet to see any place I've worked outsource an engineering job. Some jobs are outsourced, and more will probably be someday, but for now, most good small companies still want their coders in-house. It's going to be a long time before the demand for engineers based in the US does anything but grow rapidly.
1
Terrific young women!
The biggest takeaway: they're buried in student loan debt.
My biggest problem w/ Hillary is her refusal of relief for those in their 30s, 40s & 50s swallowed by student loan debt w/ no way out.
Bill Clinton ended student loan bankruptcy discharge in 1998 - a gift to Wall St. Hillary has NO real solution for those who can't pay, including millions who can't afford to get married, have children, buy a home, are ruined if they default.
Imagine being a 34 year old woman & knowing you can't ever afford to have a child because of student loans you borrowed at 18.
The availability of large student loans was a scam to burden generations w/ debt they can't pay or discharge.
Hillary needs to commit to student loans being dischargeable in bankruptcy for those who'll take the hit. This was legal before Bill destroyed this consumer right.
Not resolving this while millions discharge business, credit card, gambling & medical debt - every kind of debt BUT student loans - lets Wall Street banks who made these loans feed off 4 generations of ruined lives.
Hillary, your husband signed the 'bankruptcy reform act' as a party favor to Wall St. banks who paid you both millions.
Have a conscience & commit to student loan bankruptcy. Fix this problem you & Bill helped create! Prove to us Wall St. doesn't own you after paying you million$ for stupid speeches.
This is a huge reason millennials & young women don't care about your candidacy - they see this hypocrisy.
The biggest takeaway: they're buried in student loan debt.
My biggest problem w/ Hillary is her refusal of relief for those in their 30s, 40s & 50s swallowed by student loan debt w/ no way out.
Bill Clinton ended student loan bankruptcy discharge in 1998 - a gift to Wall St. Hillary has NO real solution for those who can't pay, including millions who can't afford to get married, have children, buy a home, are ruined if they default.
Imagine being a 34 year old woman & knowing you can't ever afford to have a child because of student loans you borrowed at 18.
The availability of large student loans was a scam to burden generations w/ debt they can't pay or discharge.
Hillary needs to commit to student loans being dischargeable in bankruptcy for those who'll take the hit. This was legal before Bill destroyed this consumer right.
Not resolving this while millions discharge business, credit card, gambling & medical debt - every kind of debt BUT student loans - lets Wall Street banks who made these loans feed off 4 generations of ruined lives.
Hillary, your husband signed the 'bankruptcy reform act' as a party favor to Wall St. banks who paid you both millions.
Have a conscience & commit to student loan bankruptcy. Fix this problem you & Bill helped create! Prove to us Wall St. doesn't own you after paying you million$ for stupid speeches.
This is a huge reason millennials & young women don't care about your candidacy - they see this hypocrisy.
30
@fastfurious - What baloney. The people who took this loans created the problem, and then increased it by sitting around at home for a few years trying to find a "ideal job" in their "ideal field" that may exist only in their minds. All the while, not working at any job whatsoever and letting the interest increase the amount they owe. Take responsibility for your own decisions, and if you borrow money, find a way to pay it back. That's what everyone else has to do, why should you be an exception?
12
I question why tuition and expenses have skyrocketed to the point where people need loans in the first place. Wouldn't surprise me if colleges said "We can charge whatever we want, because kids have no trouble getting loans, and it's not our problem if they're repaid." If loans were not handed out like candy, colleges would drop their prices real fast.
Another "personal responsibility" fanatic. Do you hold corporations and so many of their insanely stupid investment decisions to these same high moral standards (such as many of Donald Trump's misbegotten business ventures) when business owners can have their debt discharged in bankruptcy court today so they can go out tomorrow and start the process all over again? It is no wonder that so many young people are so cynical about their futures. When the only way you can win is by gaming the system, either you throw your moral code out the window or throw "the system" out the window.
1
I'm tired of all the NYTimes articles detailing the misfortunes and difficulties of others. How about an article or two about how we can profit off of these people?
26
Thank you Anonymous for bringing back - if only for a moment - the high art of biting sarcasm.
3
Meanwhile, we are all on Facebook and Instagram, becoming the actual cogs in the Great Machine, being the stories that sell the Things and the Lifestyles back to ourselves, but now we can't afford any of it. Aspirational, materialistic desires rise up to match exploitative price tags. Capital is willfully divested, then hoarded by the corporations, the money lenders, the Chairpersons. What next?
15
My browser cookies tend to send me ads for things I've already bought, which I can obviously afford, because I already bought them.
5
Yea and pretty soon computer software will be driving cars.
While I've found younger millennials are sometimes exasperating to deal with, particularly when they are supposed to be serving you, I think many do have a tough go of it. Two of my kids fall into the cohort and the 30-something and the people she graduated with fell right into the crash in 2008, with school debt and diminished employment opportunities. Many are still struggling. It was much easier when I graduated in 1971, no question about it. Companies still hired humanities majors and trained them and retained them for years after as valued employees. People who graduated with professional degrees had no trouble finding excellent permanent jobs. None of that is true anymore. It's too bad STEM seems to be the only thing that matters. We'll end up with lots of people who have great skills and little understanding of the world around them.
32
"Ms. Willis, 31, said she saw no chance that anything like Social Security would be there for her or anyone her age." This sentence should have been followed up with a reminder that to pay full benefits after 2036, Social Security needs only a few changes. And even without those changes, the program will be able to pay 75 percent of promised benefits. The Times should not repeat myths about Social Security (or anything else) without clarification, just because somebody feels that the myths are true.
50
A few changes that will hit taxpayers with huge increases without any payback. For instance, someone making $175,000 will be hit with a ~$4,000 annual tax increase.
I don't understand the sense of entitlement for an easy life. Since when is life supposed to be easy? Look beyond the end of your noses and maybe read a book. Get some perspective.
13
When I was a kid I heard that nuclear would provide us " energy too cheap to meter" and we'd have flying cars by now. Guess it's best to not get your future predictions from the media.
1
Well odds are SS wont be around in 30 years and maybe not even in 10 years. I am not sure if many of the little things we take for granted will be, The US has fallen behind even in education. Taxes ect has sent jobs overseas, And the majority wont be back, It will take small businesses to grow to replace those jobs, But with the regulations and high taxes. Even that looks bleak. The millennials are facing very hard times. We have a 20t debt. China is about to set gold prices, And our dollar is a petrol dollar, In 30 years the world will either be well beyond oil for gas, or close to it. Either way the transfer of wealth is almost done, They have taken from America and spread the wealth. And since you cannot have a world full of American style living we once enjoyed, You have to bring America down a notch or two. Welcome to globalism. And with a war brewing with either Russia or their partner China for making a run at becoming the worlds currency. Yup things look bleak
8
It's tough to make it for sure, but you can help yourself by carefully choosing your college major. One of the women in the article majored in 'philosophy and the history of science'. What kind of job did she expect that degree would translate to? There's no reason to expect a good, steady job if you wasted your college years on a degree that's not going to help you in the job market.
16
Just like there is no reason to expect an income after spending 4 years on an industrial engineering degree and then designing things that nobody wants to buy.
She spent $72k of someone else's money to get that worthless degree. And other commentators here think we should forgive that debt (in other words, pay her debt with our work).
Jack, you hit it on the head. Until there is sustained communication to HS students and their parents that many degrees are worthless these stories will only grow. In the real world there is only so much demand for Philosophy and Communications majors. Unfortunately, if you point this out you are castigated as someone that only cares about money and not about the "college experience". For many that experience creates a life long financial burden. A burden created by the individual (and perhaps their parents and greedy colleges) and certainly not by Joe Taxpayer or the Boomer generation.
1
people need decent ( not to taken as extravagant ) clothing, shelter, food
anything more than that is idle luxury
3
By all means, let us bring back the sumptuary laws.
The millennials need to stop worrying and complaining about the state of the world, man up and get to work. The world has always been a harsh and unforgiving place. My parents came of age during the Great Depression and WWII, when the world appeared to be coming apart. They never complained, they got to work. My Father's motto: Decus et Fortitudo ex Sacrificio.
13
"Get to work," implies there is a job to get with a living wage and benefits. Given your age, you are retired or close to it and have always made a decent wage with benefits. Those jobs are continually disappearing. You had it easy compared both to your parents and to young people today. Yes, "get to work," but create a world where there are good jobs to get.
24
What did he pay for his first house? Was it 5 times his yearly income? And did he have to go into debt $60-100k to get that income? And was he ever put in direct competition with third-world workers that could do his job for a quarter of his salary?
Kinda already know the answers to those questions...
Kinda already know the answers to those questions...
9
@Roy Boswell - You're making a lot of inaccurate assumptions. There are good jobs to get, but many younger people today seem to want a particular job at a particular salary, and see no point to taking anything else. And just because you believe that previous generations "always made a decent wage with benefits" doesn't make it true. Employer healthcare didn't exist in the private sector for decades, just the union jobs had that perk. Most companies didn't offer pensions to anyone except the higher ups, and only started offering health insurance to attract better employees. And 401ks, a very imperfect and potentially unreliable retirement savings plan, are relatively recent (and crashed in 2008 wiping out years of savings/gains). So don't go spouting broad generalities that are mostly inaccurate.
4
Boomers give us their two best representatives for President of the United States: Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton.
Then laugh at Millennials for having despair.
Then laugh at Millennials for having despair.
29
The future looks scary because the past is defined by insatiable boomer greed. Boomers were able to work their way through college on a minimum wage job. Then they took the reigns of power and exploited the institutions that helped enrich them, destroying those institutions in the process.
Bernie Sanders, or any politician, is not the cure to Millennial fears. People need to look inside themselves and decide to end the era of greed and exploitation for personal enrichment.
Bernie Sanders, or any politician, is not the cure to Millennial fears. People need to look inside themselves and decide to end the era of greed and exploitation for personal enrichment.
26
This is crazy talk with no perspective. No boomer could make it through college on minimum wage. And the boomers were the first ones to take it on the chin from the exploitation of the rich. Learn some history and bury the generational hate.
10
Sorry but wrong. Tuition may be worse now, but working your way through college on a minimum wage job has bever happened at least not in my lifetime.
As far as era of greed that hasn't ended in the last 40 years so I wouldn't hold your breath
As far as era of greed that hasn't ended in the last 40 years so I wouldn't hold your breath
5
If this were The Twilight Zone, Rod Serling would send you back to the 70s so you could see how bad it was back then. Yes college was cheap but the unemployment rate was very high and none of the careers that pay 21 year olds $90k per year existed yet. You got out of college, then you scrambled for a year or two to land a minimum wage job for which your degree did not render you "over-qualified" in the eyes of those employers. There was no such thing as a paid or unpaid internship either. People who were able to clear those hurdles by the time they were 40 were glad to have survived. They weren't all greedy overlords conquering the world in your imagination.
25
Near this story is another story about alleged sexism in Olympics coverage. Isn't the emphasis on "women" in this story also sexist? What difference does it make?
4
I've come to the conclusion that 'Feminism' isn't about 'equality'. In fact that word seems to have been replaced by one with a less precise definition, 'equity' which simply means having an interest in something. So there is not precise numerical definition attached to it.
No, 'Feminism' is simply about the advancement of women, period. So if there aren't enough women, we have 'sexism' even if there isn't any evidence of it. It is presumed to be deeply embedded in the culture, so deep, it can't be detected.
Of course once women are in the majority, there is no problem.
No, 'Feminism' is simply about the advancement of women, period. So if there aren't enough women, we have 'sexism' even if there isn't any evidence of it. It is presumed to be deeply embedded in the culture, so deep, it can't be detected.
Of course once women are in the majority, there is no problem.
1
You just don't believe girls can be nerds. Please save us all some time by just admitting it.
BTW I was accused many times of learning physics JUST to make a feminist statement. That kind of atmosphere is corrosive to the soul.
Please check the toxic chemicals you are releasing into the girl nerd environment. You may have a daughter or granddaughter who wants to study physics. Do you really want to crush that little girl's soul?
BTW I was accused many times of learning physics JUST to make a feminist statement. That kind of atmosphere is corrosive to the soul.
Please check the toxic chemicals you are releasing into the girl nerd environment. You may have a daughter or granddaughter who wants to study physics. Do you really want to crush that little girl's soul?
9
So pointing out that sexism exists in the world is sexist....? By that logic, no one should ever point out (or try to fix) any problem.
It's a fact that young women are often discouraged (in all sorts of overt and subtle ways) from pursuing higher education and careers in STEM. The academy featured in the article is a drop in the bucket, but at least they're trying to address this very real issue.
It's a fact that young women are often discouraged (in all sorts of overt and subtle ways) from pursuing higher education and careers in STEM. The academy featured in the article is a drop in the bucket, but at least they're trying to address this very real issue.
This was clearly just an article about a particular person, but then they decided they'd try to make it more relevant by saying it applies to 30 million people.
25
The physicists at the LHC only observe a tiny tiny tiny fraction of the particles in the Universe. BUT we're pretty confident that all the other zillions of electrons and protons etc all behave the same way. That is why their experiments are relevant.
4
Life may never be easy in the US but our leaders have made it a lot tougher for the millennials by allowing into the country 100 million immigrants since the '60's. And if the Democrats have their way - since they have shown no inclination to impose immigration limits - the millennial's children will have it even worse.
17
So it's only the Dems who have allowed all these immigrants into the country?
What about Donald Trump, who hired illegals to work on his buildings? What about Romney, who hired illegals to landscape his house? Do you think any republican business owner would hesitate to hire the cheapest labor possible, legal or illegal, if there were no penalties? And ergo, do you think republican biz owners actually oppose immigration, legal or otherwise?
Or do you think most business owners are not republicans?
I think you should re-think your "Democrat" blame for immigration.
What about Donald Trump, who hired illegals to work on his buildings? What about Romney, who hired illegals to landscape his house? Do you think any republican business owner would hesitate to hire the cheapest labor possible, legal or illegal, if there were no penalties? And ergo, do you think republican biz owners actually oppose immigration, legal or otherwise?
Or do you think most business owners are not republicans?
I think you should re-think your "Democrat" blame for immigration.
17
DaveB:
Sorry, it's President Obama who has pushed hard to provide work papers to illegal immigrants. Once that happens, those workers can assume more visible roles. The dishwasher can become a waiter. The custodian can become an office worker.
It's the republicans who have worked to stop him.
Sorry, it's President Obama who has pushed hard to provide work papers to illegal immigrants. Once that happens, those workers can assume more visible roles. The dishwasher can become a waiter. The custodian can become an office worker.
It's the republicans who have worked to stop him.
The very rich are getting richer the whole world over, and there is just not that much left for the rest of us. This is why millennials and many others are having problems. The very rich have adopted two ways to keep from being challenged: first, what is going on is hidden behind walls of privacy and giant heaps of public relations bull; and second, governments and institutions that could challenge the rich have been systematically coopted or crippled.
Millennials sense that the system is unstable enough that they cannot see or be assured of a decent future for themselves. They are on their own and surrounded by powerful forces that wish to use them and otherwise do not care what will happen to them. These powerful forces seem to pay no attention to the long term and fight off any such attention as a threat to their freedom (which it is).
Mass nonviolent protests can bring down systems but not replace them with something better. Organized opposition is so far from existence that we cannot even see what it might look like; no political revolution is large enough to be noticeable by those who are looking.
Millennials sense that the system is unstable enough that they cannot see or be assured of a decent future for themselves. They are on their own and surrounded by powerful forces that wish to use them and otherwise do not care what will happen to them. These powerful forces seem to pay no attention to the long term and fight off any such attention as a threat to their freedom (which it is).
Mass nonviolent protests can bring down systems but not replace them with something better. Organized opposition is so far from existence that we cannot even see what it might look like; no political revolution is large enough to be noticeable by those who are looking.
31
When I was in fourth grade, I was convinced that the Russians were going to bomb us into kingdom come, that it could happen any time, and that we would know it was coming a half an hour in advance. When I was in tenth grade, my fears subsided, because I thought the Vietnam War was a valve that would release a little bit of the pressure pushing us toward WW3. I quickly learned after that that any young man I knew could get drafted and killed or maimed in that very same Vietnam war. Also knew that thousands and thousands of my compatriots were raping, killing, bombing, and burning to death people in Southeast Asia that I had nothing against. When I graduated from college, there were no jobs, and so my husband and I hit the road. When we got back, there were still no jobs, so we wormed our way into grad school and law school. When we got out, we did not have sufficient income to reproduce, but we reproduced anyway. We all worry about whether it will work out for our children. Ever since 1945, the US has made sure that global hegemony and corporate profits are our country's most important goal. Anything that might lead to a secure personal life--affordable medical care, good public schools, inexpensive college educations, uncontaminated food, gun safety--has been actively destroyed by the corporations and their minions in Washington. In order for this to happen, we have been fed an endless stream of false advertising. This is how collapse happens--constant mindless cheating.
112
Give me a break. Every generation thinks it's facing great crises. Yes, things are very,very far from perfect. But the U.S. is not involved in any (major) wars, the economy is basically sound, and it looks as though the sane candidate will win the presidency.
13
So you don't count the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as major then? Global climate change - not to worry? Islamic terrorism (if I may) no big deal? The growing plutocracy that is our government - a big yawn?
13
Go read "The Dark Valley," a history of the 1930s. Worldwide depression on a scale many times worse than anyone around today has seen; Hitler; Mussolini; Stalin; Franco; Tojo. Etc.
Then tell me how this generation has worse problems than prior ones and will never get through them.
Of course, there was no income inequality in the '30s, so they had that going for them....
Then tell me how this generation has worse problems than prior ones and will never get through them.
Of course, there was no income inequality in the '30s, so they had that going for them....
2
The corporate interests own the politicians. HRC's first few months in office will prove that. She will accomplish NOTHING that inconveniences the 1%. There will be much talk-talk about how her policies are going to pay off SOON (soon being a period from a decade to the remainder of the universe's lifespan) for the middle class.
The newspapers? Bezos bought the Washington Post. Tronc (aka the LA Times) is owned by a hedge fund and the LAPD (google "Ted Rall" and "suing" -- a story the NYTimes hasn't even touched. Google "Sheldon Adelson" and "Las Vegas newspaper" while you're at it.)
In five more years, the mechanism for alerting the public to political/corporate shenanigans -- the press -- will be gone. Instagram/Facebook/Twitter will let you express your feel-feels (as long as it meets appropriate automated filters and is ad-revenue friendly).
The Times will still be there, rolling out cooking recipes and articles about what $1.3 million will buy you for a house in Boston or Tacoma, but all the articles about how bad it really is here on the ground? Oh, no, no, no. That might upset a politician, and the Times reporters still haven't gotten their invites to the Press Corps Dinner.
The Millennials have figured it out. The whole system is rigged. Just like it was rigged against Sanders (even after the rigging was pointed out, it still isn't permitted to discuss it). Give it another five to 10 years. Then we'll see the flames as the cities burn through the night.
The newspapers? Bezos bought the Washington Post. Tronc (aka the LA Times) is owned by a hedge fund and the LAPD (google "Ted Rall" and "suing" -- a story the NYTimes hasn't even touched. Google "Sheldon Adelson" and "Las Vegas newspaper" while you're at it.)
In five more years, the mechanism for alerting the public to political/corporate shenanigans -- the press -- will be gone. Instagram/Facebook/Twitter will let you express your feel-feels (as long as it meets appropriate automated filters and is ad-revenue friendly).
The Times will still be there, rolling out cooking recipes and articles about what $1.3 million will buy you for a house in Boston or Tacoma, but all the articles about how bad it really is here on the ground? Oh, no, no, no. That might upset a politician, and the Times reporters still haven't gotten their invites to the Press Corps Dinner.
The Millennials have figured it out. The whole system is rigged. Just like it was rigged against Sanders (even after the rigging was pointed out, it still isn't permitted to discuss it). Give it another five to 10 years. Then we'll see the flames as the cities burn through the night.
25
Bernie lost. Get over it and WORK for change you want.
You are NOT the first generation who didn't get change handed to them
You are NOT the first generation who didn't get change handed to them
10
1. As I said: "It still isn't permitted to discuss it."
2. I'm 48. I know all about not being the first generation to not get change handed to it.
3. Dapper, the whole point is that HRC will NOT deliver change. Go on, look at her record. It's a series of "results" that led to nothing.
2. I'm 48. I know all about not being the first generation to not get change handed to it.
3. Dapper, the whole point is that HRC will NOT deliver change. Go on, look at her record. It's a series of "results" that led to nothing.
2
Millennials are the biggest loser, crybabies in the history of the world. I work with a lot of them and they are the worst.
Here's some advice that you will likely ignore because no one except your friends, "advisors" or "board of directors" (I am not making that one up) could possibly have a better idea than you: Get a job -- they are out there, though it might not initially involve pursing your "passion" -- start at the bottom, show up for work every day, on time, ready and willing to work, actually do some work instead of looking at your snapchat, instagram and FB accounts nearly all day, listen and follow instructions (you don't need to constantly show us that you know a "better" way to do things),and in time (no, not in the first two weeks), you likely will be promoted or will be able to move up to an even better and more rewarding job somewhere else.
I thought this was common sense, but the millennials are often sorely lacking in common sense.
Here's some advice that you will likely ignore because no one except your friends, "advisors" or "board of directors" (I am not making that one up) could possibly have a better idea than you: Get a job -- they are out there, though it might not initially involve pursing your "passion" -- start at the bottom, show up for work every day, on time, ready and willing to work, actually do some work instead of looking at your snapchat, instagram and FB accounts nearly all day, listen and follow instructions (you don't need to constantly show us that you know a "better" way to do things),and in time (no, not in the first two weeks), you likely will be promoted or will be able to move up to an even better and more rewarding job somewhere else.
I thought this was common sense, but the millennials are often sorely lacking in common sense.
46
So tired of the millennial whiners and the NYT's persistent profiling of these new whiners with social science degrees that lead to no significant earning ability most of the time.
15
It would be a better world if there were more jobs in social sciences. We don't need another Apple app. Another Wall Street trader. Another corporate drone. What society needs, and sorely misses, is historical and sociological understanding of the world and human nature. Focus on nothing but profit ends up costing us dearly. Had Americans had any understanding of, say, the history of Middle East tribalism, we never would have consented to invading Iraq and setting off ISIS. Our profound ignorance of sociology, anthropology and world history dooms us to bad decisions and costly mistakes.
1
As a 28yo tech worker in Seattle, I honestly have a hard time identifying with this article. The title is absurd, and doesn't reflect the mood of the region at all. You could just as easily have picked a few other interviews and targeted statistics to write an article titled "Growth. Tech. Politics. To Seattle Millenials, the Future Looks Bright".
The author used a few very specific stories that, while interesting, really aren't a fair representation of the millenial population here. And while he tries to back it up with some polling data, it just comes off as a weird attempt to force a narrative that isn't reality.
Yes, my generation took on a lot of debt. Yes, cost of living is a big concern in major metropolitan areas. Yes, this election cycle is frustration. However, none of those things are specific to Seattle and I resent the author's attempt to tie it to the city. Seattle is enjoying an incredible moment of growth, prosperity, and opportunity. Local political and social engagement is rising, and the general attitude is optimistic here.
The author used a few very specific stories that, while interesting, really aren't a fair representation of the millenial population here. And while he tries to back it up with some polling data, it just comes off as a weird attempt to force a narrative that isn't reality.
Yes, my generation took on a lot of debt. Yes, cost of living is a big concern in major metropolitan areas. Yes, this election cycle is frustration. However, none of those things are specific to Seattle and I resent the author's attempt to tie it to the city. Seattle is enjoying an incredible moment of growth, prosperity, and opportunity. Local political and social engagement is rising, and the general attitude is optimistic here.
43
I agree with you. They interviewed a lot of us current and past students at Ada for this particular piece, and they focused on just a small part of it. Several of the people quoted for the article have already graduated and happily moved on to $90k+ jobs. But of course, that is not sensationalist enough.
13
I belong to the tail-end of Gen X and my attitude in Seattle is cautiously optimistic. The booming tech sector doesn't benefit me. Jobs in my field in Seattle are scarce and pay significantly less than similar jobs where I used to live, but my husband fortunately has a secure position in academia.
I worry a lot about the increased cost of living here, and about how difficult it is to get anywhere in a car or on public transit. I'm concerned about what the unchecked growth will do to the character of our city and the beautiful wilderness that's within our reach. And while I've never in my life voted Republican, I'd consider it strongly if it were my only choice beside our current mayor, who's never seen a budget he didn't want to double and stick to the city's homeowners via levies on property taxes
Those are concerns specific to Seattle. I was expecting something more familiar -- even if not my point of view -- from this story, but found those millenials could've been from any American city.
I worry a lot about the increased cost of living here, and about how difficult it is to get anywhere in a car or on public transit. I'm concerned about what the unchecked growth will do to the character of our city and the beautiful wilderness that's within our reach. And while I've never in my life voted Republican, I'd consider it strongly if it were my only choice beside our current mayor, who's never seen a budget he didn't want to double and stick to the city's homeowners via levies on property taxes
Those are concerns specific to Seattle. I was expecting something more familiar -- even if not my point of view -- from this story, but found those millenials could've been from any American city.
Full disclosure: music theater major here (stop hating on the arts, people!), currently with a corporate day job, and loans that I paid off three years ago, after 20 years.
I definitely think the millennials have it harder, because truly our country and world have not done enough to provide stability, peace, and economic and environmental balance. However, I also think that their expectations are very high -- due to social media and technology. Back in my day (can you hear my knees creaking?), we just didn't know that much about what everyone else had. We didn't see the Kardashians parading their wealth, or teenage entrepreneurs selling apps for millions of dollars. Those things just didn't exist. We were happy to have a job at the mall, drive our parents' cast off vehicles, and share apartments well into our twenties and thirties (I'm 46 and just left my NYC roommate situation, to live with my partner). When we left college, we were happy to have a job, any job! The Millennials have been brainwashed to think that they can "have it all" at a very young age, and it's very disappointing when they find that it's just not true. Look, I was broke through much of my 20's and 30's and only now in my 40's do I have some savings and retirement funds. It took a long time and lot of work. I don't discount that the Millennials face an uphill climb, but I also think that social media and technology make anyone less than a millionaire feel like a failure.
I definitely think the millennials have it harder, because truly our country and world have not done enough to provide stability, peace, and economic and environmental balance. However, I also think that their expectations are very high -- due to social media and technology. Back in my day (can you hear my knees creaking?), we just didn't know that much about what everyone else had. We didn't see the Kardashians parading their wealth, or teenage entrepreneurs selling apps for millions of dollars. Those things just didn't exist. We were happy to have a job at the mall, drive our parents' cast off vehicles, and share apartments well into our twenties and thirties (I'm 46 and just left my NYC roommate situation, to live with my partner). When we left college, we were happy to have a job, any job! The Millennials have been brainwashed to think that they can "have it all" at a very young age, and it's very disappointing when they find that it's just not true. Look, I was broke through much of my 20's and 30's and only now in my 40's do I have some savings and retirement funds. It took a long time and lot of work. I don't discount that the Millennials face an uphill climb, but I also think that social media and technology make anyone less than a millionaire feel like a failure.
70
Much love for the arts! Support them.
Its taken me over 20 years to pay back my grad school loans and I have a good career in medicine so I know where you're coming from.
Yes, expectations. Perhaps you read the staple 9th grade book by Dickens? Money and acclaim are made to look as if you can just walk outside and pick them up off the ground like rocks. So when it turns out to be a scam I'm not surprised by the disillusionment.
Its taken me over 20 years to pay back my grad school loans and I have a good career in medicine so I know where you're coming from.
Yes, expectations. Perhaps you read the staple 9th grade book by Dickens? Money and acclaim are made to look as if you can just walk outside and pick them up off the ground like rocks. So when it turns out to be a scam I'm not surprised by the disillusionment.
7
Some of the feelings and perceptions presented here:
- "“In the era of terrorism, I think about stuff like, ‘If I go to this crowded festival, what are the chances,’ (Please note: In 1968 there were over 600 terrorist bombings within this country)
And "the 1960s were different, that there seemed to be a clearer goal..." (Please note: The goals might have been "clearer" but they were neither guaranteed, non-violent, simple or easy)
And "Many are terrified of debt and deeply worried about their economic future..." (Please note: You don't own a house, have children and have elderly sick parents to take care of - you don't know nothin' about economic worries)
I like young people - they are vibrant, talented and inspiring. This article also gives them the appearance of meek, uneducated (except in how to code the next app) and fearful. Sorry. That's just the way it comes off here.
- "“In the era of terrorism, I think about stuff like, ‘If I go to this crowded festival, what are the chances,’ (Please note: In 1968 there were over 600 terrorist bombings within this country)
And "the 1960s were different, that there seemed to be a clearer goal..." (Please note: The goals might have been "clearer" but they were neither guaranteed, non-violent, simple or easy)
And "Many are terrified of debt and deeply worried about their economic future..." (Please note: You don't own a house, have children and have elderly sick parents to take care of - you don't know nothin' about economic worries)
I like young people - they are vibrant, talented and inspiring. This article also gives them the appearance of meek, uneducated (except in how to code the next app) and fearful. Sorry. That's just the way it comes off here.
22
Exactly. I live in NYC, terror central. Sure, it crosses my mind when I enter the subway or go into a tunnel. But just for a moment. Life goes on.
6
In the third paragraph it states that Ms. Boshart came to Seattle from Utah after college where she studied musical theater. She apparently uses her education in musical theater in her burlesque performance.
3
I revise the word "uneducated" to "inexperience" (or "unworldly" - take your choice.)
I worked from 6th to 12th grade to "save for college" and then part-time all through college, living at home for two years to save on costs. Do millennials think through how to fund their education before strapping on tens of thousands of dollars in debt? Do they work or volunteer during college to get experience? Do they develop a work ethic, special competencies and skills, and a love for some vocation? My sense is that some do, most don't. Thus, the angst when reality sets in. Go figure.
22
The minimum wage is $7.25. If you work 40 hours a week (in addition to going to high school and/or college) that is $290 dollars a week in salary before taxes, $1160. per month. Where I live you couldn't rent a room for that much less have something left over to pay for food, clothing, transportation, books. You do understand that the minimum wage has not kept up with inflation and is worth less than it was in the 60s and 70s. Of course, increases in college tuition have exceeded the rate of inflation and even state colleges have shifted more of the cost onto the students and off of the state budgets. But let's not talk about that.
21
Dear MEH,
Do some math and you will figure it out. I don't mean 1970s-1980s math. I mean the income/expense ratio math of 2016. Also, tell us where all the jobs are in college towns? Sorry, your stuck in the past.
Do some math and you will figure it out. I don't mean 1970s-1980s math. I mean the income/expense ratio math of 2016. Also, tell us where all the jobs are in college towns? Sorry, your stuck in the past.
9
Yes, all the younger students I've known have done the exact same sorts of things, and they STILL graduated with considerable debt. Higher education is just that expensive now.
In most states, you'd have to work full-time and save for *many* years before you could pay for college in full. (even at a public university). I know several people who work full-time during the day and go to school at night, and they've still had to take out loans.
I'm a few years out of college now (graduated in 2002). I worked the entire time I was in high school and college, as you suggested. Still, the amount I was able to earn barely covered things like groceries and textbooks, let alone tuition. Things like tuition, fees, textbooks, etc., are even more expensive now than when I was in school.
In most states, you'd have to work full-time and save for *many* years before you could pay for college in full. (even at a public university). I know several people who work full-time during the day and go to school at night, and they've still had to take out loans.
I'm a few years out of college now (graduated in 2002). I worked the entire time I was in high school and college, as you suggested. Still, the amount I was able to earn barely covered things like groceries and textbooks, let alone tuition. Things like tuition, fees, textbooks, etc., are even more expensive now than when I was in school.
8
Fascinating photo from the Times photographer Ruth Fremson? (2nd one down). It tells the entire story. For me it has all the facets from comedy to sadness, and to hope.
GenX might as well be re-branded as "The Forgotten Generation," but I digress. As a GenXer many of my cohorts face, and continue to face the same difficulties. My sister's cohorts were on the heels of the savings and loan crisis. My cohorts graduated college just as the tech bubble was bursting. And, just when things were looking up and we started to buy houses and live the American dream, the housing market collapsed and we found ourselves underwater. The point is all generations are facing challenges. Personally, I am fortunate in that I avoided the tech bubble with grad school; racked up significant debt, which thankfully consists of 1.9% interest federal loans; and, could not afford a house during the housing collapse, but was able to buy during the recovery at a realistic price under a low interest loan. Sadly, not many from any generation can claim my luck, and that is the real problem.
20
I'll say it since no one else seems capable or willing to. The problem with all these grievances and such in this article can be traced back to to root of the strife - government. Specifically, big government liberalism and the increasing dependence of our society on it for their most basic needs - healthcare, income assistance, food vouchers, student "loans", etc. People are unwilling to connect the dots. Ms Weeber in the article states "I don't know how to solve it." The answer is simple. Get the government the hell out of your life and quit defaulting personal responsibility for your actions and well-being to some governmental agency. Liberty is the answer. Liberty begets prosperity. Prosperity begets happiness. Your big government state of Washington, and especially Seattle, cannot co-exist with liberty, period. The two are incompatible, yet you can't see that because you're such a dyed-in-the wool liberal/democrat/social warrior/(insert title here). Sigh. It's a losing battle on site such as this, the NY Slimes. Reason #29 I'll never move to the left coast.
4
I'm sorry Dave I can't allow to bloviate like that.
My student "loans" were just that and I've spent over 20 years paying them back. So all your right wing whining and blaming is just more of the same fascist drivel.
I go to work everyday and see nurses aides work very hard for not much more than minimum wage. Yet Trump got rich by declaring bankruptcy which can't be done to student loan debt
My student "loans" were just that and I've spent over 20 years paying them back. So all your right wing whining and blaming is just more of the same fascist drivel.
I go to work everyday and see nurses aides work very hard for not much more than minimum wage. Yet Trump got rich by declaring bankruptcy which can't be done to student loan debt
17
Yeah, I get it. All that prosperity, all those 90K jobs, all those companies being successful. Government is terrible, allowing those things to happen!
2
So you don't rely on the government for anything? You don't ever go to a hospital, or drive on a road? You don't take any tax deductions for, say, mortgage interest or dependents? You'll forsake Social Security retirement checks and Medicare coverage when you retire?
Give me a break. You benefit from the government in all kinds of ways, just like anyone else.
(FYI, student loans are actually quite profitable for the government. They're not handouts).
Give me a break. You benefit from the government in all kinds of ways, just like anyone else.
(FYI, student loans are actually quite profitable for the government. They're not handouts).
11
Mark my words, most of those in these coding camps are going to have a hard time finding good jobs.
Good coding needs years and years of dedication and requires understanding computers in and out. It cannot be picked up within weeks or months. My gripe is that liberal media seems to think it is like learning to walk. It is far from it and far, far more difficult. I was somebody who routinely performed well above average on aptitude tests. It still took years and years to become a good coder. I don't think anyone without exceptional aptitude stands a chance. 90% of students coming out of these coding schools are going to be unemployable. And that might be an understatement.
Good coding needs years and years of dedication and requires understanding computers in and out. It cannot be picked up within weeks or months. My gripe is that liberal media seems to think it is like learning to walk. It is far from it and far, far more difficult. I was somebody who routinely performed well above average on aptitude tests. It still took years and years to become a good coder. I don't think anyone without exceptional aptitude stands a chance. 90% of students coming out of these coding schools are going to be unemployable. And that might be an understatement.
12
It's a scam. Like Trump University. Learn how to cook.
7
To offer a more positive anecdotal experience: my husband taught himself coding in about a year, after work and on the weekends. He's a smart guy, but not a genius or anything. He now has had 3 good jobs in tech. And he had no computer/science background before this.
I don't know enough about coding to compare it to, say, brain surgery, but it seems like any skill--if you're relatively bright and study it, you can pick it up. Of course the longer you're at it, the better you will become.
I don't know enough about coding to compare it to, say, brain surgery, but it seems like any skill--if you're relatively bright and study it, you can pick it up. Of course the longer you're at it, the better you will become.
8
Most people disagree with R. First, coding is easier than most people make it out to be and the economy is not really distinguishing good coders from mediocre. Second, soon there will be more trained to code than there are jobs coding. This is not how you build a strong economy. The only reason that we have this tech boom is because VC money is going to coders making apps that will never add value. Coding will soon spiral down to its true value.
6
today's "progressives" are at odds with progress.
4
A thought experiment for those critical of young people who major in philosophy or history of science: Let's say everyone majored in math, science or engineering. Or, pick another field such as coding -- or any series of fields that promise to deliver a living wage to those who graduate. The huge influx of entrants then entering those fields would quickly drive down wages for everyone who made the "right" choice. The fact is, to be sustainable, the American economy must provide a living wage for all the children we produce. If it can't do that it will go by the wayside. The evidence of this article is that the young are beginning to see how the system rewards the few -- many of them parasites -- while failing the many. As the article points out, the elections show that the failure of American elites to manage a system that rewards all of us for our work is becoming more widely understood. Unless this trend is reversed, no amount of condemnation of the choices young people will turn them from rejection to acceptance.
13
These women are taking steps to better there lives, and it should be a very exciting time for them. Instead, the article shows us a swamp of negative feelings laced with self-pity. If their education and future possibilities aren't exciting to them in any way, they may be in the wrong field of study.
6
I'm not reading all the comments because most don't matter probably any more than mine does. Millenials should be terrified. Politicians ON BOTH SIDES have driven the National Debt to an unsustainable level and it certainly isn't getting better. Allowing over 10 million ILLEGAL aliens, not making sure we have trained workers, but plenty of under-employed college grads, putting people on welfare like it's going out of style, young people are the ones that will pay the price. God help us all, but I have a feeling He wants us to help ourselves for a change.
Just attended a CCC reunion over the weekend, what an amazing time that must have been, in the middle of the Great Depression. Very few have a clue what that was actually like back then. It was a government program, but it was absolutely done the right way, very much unlike almost anything today.
Just attended a CCC reunion over the weekend, what an amazing time that must have been, in the middle of the Great Depression. Very few have a clue what that was actually like back then. It was a government program, but it was absolutely done the right way, very much unlike almost anything today.
4
We have problems, yes, but the national debt is not one of them.
I'm scared for them, too. I'll be gone in 3 decades and change, but the Millennials are the first American generation to end up worse off than their parents.
We Xers and Boomers could have built upon the broad postwar prosperity and rising expectations for civil and gender rights that were the rule from 1945 to 1970. Then we stalled and began to play small ball, even as we turned the economy into a rigged game for the rich and continued wrecking the planet's ecosystems.
We old folks should be ashamed of ourselves.
We Xers and Boomers could have built upon the broad postwar prosperity and rising expectations for civil and gender rights that were the rule from 1945 to 1970. Then we stalled and began to play small ball, even as we turned the economy into a rigged game for the rich and continued wrecking the planet's ecosystems.
We old folks should be ashamed of ourselves.
9
Yeah yeah yeah. Maybe not having children would have helped.
3
@Peak Oiler - What do you mean "we old folks", and how do you imagine that you speak for all of them? You don't, you know.
3
be gone in 3 decades and change
how did you come by that little tidbit ?
how did you come by that little tidbit ?
1
I realize I will come off as an uncaring boomer, but I grew up having been taught that I needed to work hard to survive, and maybe, get ahead, although there are no guarantees in life. I've been fighting to preserve programs like social security for DECADES and continue to fight for it. It's up to the next generations to carry on that fight, and to fight for whatever they want in their lives. Is our political system corrupt? Yes. Do the majority of citizens do ANYTHING to work towards changing that that? No. Some people need to stop whining, and stop expecting things to be handed to them, realize there are always risks, and that rewards are not guaranteed. That's life.
20
Each new generation faces challenges of their own making as well as those left over from the past. Obviously this country is still drowning in racism, in part an echo from the business of 18th century slavery. Slavery was opposed by many even then. I wonder how many issues have been generated in the last 65 years, since I was born, that will saddle people to other dinosaurs of injustice. I look to activism to identify those problems at least, as the early abolitionists did. Climate change is most obvious. We do have a right to a livable planet. And we are riding the current economic system that is destroying it. The operating paradigm could be changed to an economic system that rewards reversing the increase in fossil fuel combustion products and the emission of other greenhouse gases. For the millenials whose futures are insecure, and who are striving to gain adequate incomes by finding a place in a self-destructive system, it is hard to see how such a conversion could take place. It isn't as simple as looking at someone and saying the color of your skin is irrelevant. Slavery is wrong. It destroys us all. It is looking into a mirror and saying that the end result of my employment is relevant. And enslavement to anything that destroys us all is still wrong.
5
"The operating paradigm could be changed to an economic system that rewards reversing the increase in fossil fuel combustion products and the emission of other greenhouse gases."
Why not an economic system that rewards families with one or at the most two children since overpopulation is as much of a threat as "climate change"?
Why not an economic system that rewards families with one or at the most two children since overpopulation is as much of a threat as "climate change"?
7
I'm not even sure what this article is supposed to be. An article about the anxiety of some young women in Seattle about the prospects of success and stability in America. Based on.... Their feelings. Nytimes is getting very fond of these types of non news articles lately, I suppose in the hopes of attracting millennial subscribers.
To address the article on its face I would just say that if you read the nytimes - the actual news articles, not the human interest stuff-you'll understand the world is indeed a lethally risky place, so don't panic, we re all in the same boat, enjoy the ride, try to make an adventure out of it.
To address the article on its face I would just say that if you read the nytimes - the actual news articles, not the human interest stuff-you'll understand the world is indeed a lethally risky place, so don't panic, we re all in the same boat, enjoy the ride, try to make an adventure out of it.
33
...King County in the Seattle metro area is second only to Brooklyn in the highest percentage of residents age 25 to 43...."
BROOKLYN, NEW YORK IS -- WAIT FOR IT --- KINGS COUNTY.
BROOKLYN, NEW YORK IS -- WAIT FOR IT --- KINGS COUNTY.
12
One thing I notice about Millennials is that they overpay. I live in a city WITH many areas of affordable housing. You can rent a 3 bedroom house in my safe neighborhood for $1200 a month. Get a roommate, it's $600 a month each. It's a quick uber to anywhere. Yet they pay $2000 for a 2 bedroom in a trendy area then complain about "no affordable housing". No, the affordable housing just isn't where you want it. They pay $6 for coffee and $10-$12 for a sandwich. I died when I saw $5.95 cinnamon toast. Drink at breweries and trendy bars.
At some point, if you work hard, a $6 coffee and living in a fancy apartment in a trendy neighborhood is doable. But sometimes you gotta make your own coffee and live in an uncool area and drink bud light on your patio....
At some point, if you work hard, a $6 coffee and living in a fancy apartment in a trendy neighborhood is doable. But sometimes you gotta make your own coffee and live in an uncool area and drink bud light on your patio....
90
Try getting a mortgage even in an uncool area if you are a Millennial first-time homebuyer. I'm older and have a track record and good credit.
It's more than the cool factor working against them. Our economy, so recently rigged to give mortgages to those on unemployment (yes, an unemployed neighbor later evicted gone one!) to shutting too many out from what once was The American Dream.
And keep the Bud Lite. That's not even beer.
It's more than the cool factor working against them. Our economy, so recently rigged to give mortgages to those on unemployment (yes, an unemployed neighbor later evicted gone one!) to shutting too many out from what once was The American Dream.
And keep the Bud Lite. That's not even beer.
5
My nephew and his old lady (not married after years together — sound familiar??) have iffy jobs, not much income, scraped together a down payment & got a mortgage — helped by local incentive programs — to buy a house in inner-city Portland, as hot an area as anywhere.
1
I noticed the same thing. People can spend their money where they want, but I find it hard to be understanding when people spending $150 a week on lunch and coffee and then complain how little money they have. The guy down the hall from me won't get a roommate even though it would solve his very real money problems and has an unused bedroom. Oh, well.
2
It is not only the younger generation that believes the American future includes some serious risks and that our political system is fundamentally broken. I'm in my fifties and I completely agree.
Congress is utterly corrupt, far too partisan, way out of touch with voters, and completely incapable of solving the problems of the country.
The Supreme Court has green-lighted, in multiple cases, a system that essentially encourages and invites bribery on a large scale. Whether that is corporate campaign contributions or the McDonnell case, which ratified "pay to play" ethics by a governor, our Constitution is being read to mean that those who have more are entitled to influence government decisions by any means they think appropriate.
We've got a good President right now, but you only have to go back to 2008 to see what happens when that is not the situation. The U.S. cannot solve the problems of the Middle East, cannot realistically expect to remain the world's only superpower, and cannot continue to effectively ignore catastrophic levels of economic inequality, unbelievably high college tuition, obvious K-12 educational incompetence, and the rising threat of climate change. But the President can only do so much and, of course, it's good to have one that has some intelligence.
I think few Americans believe our country is very special anymore. No surprise, as thirty-plus years of effort to destroy the pillars of our successful democracy have been largely successful.
Congress is utterly corrupt, far too partisan, way out of touch with voters, and completely incapable of solving the problems of the country.
The Supreme Court has green-lighted, in multiple cases, a system that essentially encourages and invites bribery on a large scale. Whether that is corporate campaign contributions or the McDonnell case, which ratified "pay to play" ethics by a governor, our Constitution is being read to mean that those who have more are entitled to influence government decisions by any means they think appropriate.
We've got a good President right now, but you only have to go back to 2008 to see what happens when that is not the situation. The U.S. cannot solve the problems of the Middle East, cannot realistically expect to remain the world's only superpower, and cannot continue to effectively ignore catastrophic levels of economic inequality, unbelievably high college tuition, obvious K-12 educational incompetence, and the rising threat of climate change. But the President can only do so much and, of course, it's good to have one that has some intelligence.
I think few Americans believe our country is very special anymore. No surprise, as thirty-plus years of effort to destroy the pillars of our successful democracy have been largely successful.
55
I love you 'CastleMan!' You get it. We were decimated by Reagan and his followers.
3
If you are in your fifties, you grew up in a world where the US was not the world's only superpower. You also grew up in a world where Arabs and Jews were killing each other in the middle east.
And i hate to let you in on this little secret but "educational incompetence" is more of a function of the dissolution of the family than anything else. In 1960, when condoms were still illegal in many states and you couldn't get a free, legal abortion on every street corner, 4% of our kids were born out of wedlock. Today, 40% of American kids are born out of wedlock. Rates are much higher in the minority communities. Parents have always been responsible for a percentage of their children's education. Who else is going to make them do homework? So without parents, we expect our educators to raise AND educate our kids. This has never been their job.
And i hate to let you in on this little secret but "educational incompetence" is more of a function of the dissolution of the family than anything else. In 1960, when condoms were still illegal in many states and you couldn't get a free, legal abortion on every street corner, 4% of our kids were born out of wedlock. Today, 40% of American kids are born out of wedlock. Rates are much higher in the minority communities. Parents have always been responsible for a percentage of their children's education. Who else is going to make them do homework? So without parents, we expect our educators to raise AND educate our kids. This has never been their job.
6
unions gone, lousy education, infrastructure a shambles , horrid health care system, a tiny ruling class that owns everything, including th govt
thats th country your leaving your progeny
10
life is a process of coping w your broken dreams and unfulfilled aspirations
people do it in all sorts of ways
some turn to religion, some to sports, some to heroin
they may seem quite different, but at bottom they all serve th same purpose
3
If Millennials are scared of "Trump 2016" written in chalk on the sidewalk, how can they be expected to do normal things like hustle, struggle, get a job, show up on time, work hard at it, and get ahead. These wimps have been catered to and coddled their entire lives and now have no coping skills. There is a study out this week that shows males are demonstrably weaker and more frail than they were in the 80s and 90s. I blame the parents, public education, and the media -- and not necessarily in that order.
12
Age 31, lots of degrees in useless stuff, no job, and living with mom and dad. That is a definition of a millennial.
13
I feel for these kids, but if the economic instability and insecurity causes people to have fewer kids, it's a good thing all around.
16
Was a time when the politicians in charge wold be blamed.
Not a word of blame for the Obama Administration.
Eight years.
Not a word of blame for the Obama Administration.
Eight years.
8
Why would someone so in debt and without great employment future have a MacBook, the most expensive computer out there?
11
It is what Ada Developers Academy requires all students to have.
7
Considering that it's a free program, it's possible that the school provides its students with computers as well.
2
I'm a 29-year old millenial and find it hard to be sympathetic to the individuals described in this...cover (not even sure this is a story, column, what have you).
Ms. Boshart's family is the most sympathetic part of the story, with the various individuals suffering specific and devastating setbacks, but Boshart herself is not sympathetic -- she is concerned for the future after incurring significant debt to study musical theater? Similarly, the other individuals are described in here as having incurred significant, nondischargeable student loan debt to study effectively useless topics.
While Boshart & Co's attempts to reorient themselves in a competitive labor market are laudable, why do they deserve sympathy for their past mistakes?
College costs are indeed punishing for many individuals, but too often the members of my generation have a "well I will figure it out later" attitude towards longterm planning, which then leaves them without a seat once the music stops.
Today's challenges aren't necessarily more acute, they just feel that way because we have more information. Having tiny computers in our pockets that give us insight into all of the ways our lives are challenging just reinforces our perception that our lives are more challenging.
When was life better? Maybe the 1990s? The rest of the past 100 years have their share of truly brutal challenges, maybe some perspective is warranted.
Ms. Boshart's family is the most sympathetic part of the story, with the various individuals suffering specific and devastating setbacks, but Boshart herself is not sympathetic -- she is concerned for the future after incurring significant debt to study musical theater? Similarly, the other individuals are described in here as having incurred significant, nondischargeable student loan debt to study effectively useless topics.
While Boshart & Co's attempts to reorient themselves in a competitive labor market are laudable, why do they deserve sympathy for their past mistakes?
College costs are indeed punishing for many individuals, but too often the members of my generation have a "well I will figure it out later" attitude towards longterm planning, which then leaves them without a seat once the music stops.
Today's challenges aren't necessarily more acute, they just feel that way because we have more information. Having tiny computers in our pockets that give us insight into all of the ways our lives are challenging just reinforces our perception that our lives are more challenging.
When was life better? Maybe the 1990s? The rest of the past 100 years have their share of truly brutal challenges, maybe some perspective is warranted.
12
Not to mention that if her parents lost the college savings they had been putting aside for her in the dot-com crash of the early 2000s, they had invested foolishly...it appears their daughter has done the same with her choice of degree.
4
One thing missing that contributes to generational angst is strong political leadership with a clear voice, vision and message about where the country needs to head; and how everyone pitches in to help do that together. Instead, we have crazy, divisive, mean and inarticulate leaders tearing things down for their own political sport.
10
A baby boomer, I came from a working class family with no money to send me or my brother to college. Does that mean I didn't go? No. I worked my way through college--a state university--and also through graduate school, a private university. Combining several forms of financial aid--loans, grants, scholarships--and my own earnings, I got through school piling up relatively little debt. Of course, loans then were low interest--2%. I actually got my MA free by working full time in the university library--tuition remission. Given what I read about the costs of college, I doubt I could duplicate my working my through college effort today. After I got my MA, I had about $13000 in college debt to repay, and I've done that. I just can't fathom graduating from college and owing $40-60,000 with a 10% annual interest rate. And let's face it, many of these colleges are just mediocre.
There is no terra firma for anybody anymore, that's the problem. We can all be fired without cause or lose jobs because the banks loot the country and cause a depression. If I were younger, I wouldn't even want to buy a house knowing that the banks can defraud you out of it and be backed up by the govt in doing so. Trust has been destroyed and people have been fed to the wolves.
There is no terra firma for anybody anymore, that's the problem. We can all be fired without cause or lose jobs because the banks loot the country and cause a depression. If I were younger, I wouldn't even want to buy a house knowing that the banks can defraud you out of it and be backed up by the govt in doing so. Trust has been destroyed and people have been fed to the wolves.
20
If a bank gives you a mortgage and you make a payment every month, how is it going to defraud you?
4
The banks did not defraud anyone, people simply did not hire a lawyer to vet the documents, as should anyone making such a large purchase.
Add to that most first time buyers bought huge houses well above their means, knowing that they could not afford the mortgage on even two incomes, much less one, which is what any financially literate family should do.
Then they whined they 'did not know what they were signing' and that the banks 'tricked' them and they should 'forgive' or 'write down' their loans, thereby passing the costs of their irresponsibility and greed along to everyone else.
Astounding how many people bought this self-serving nonsense, as if the banks somehow forced people to take out all these loans.
Add to that most first time buyers bought huge houses well above their means, knowing that they could not afford the mortgage on even two incomes, much less one, which is what any financially literate family should do.
Then they whined they 'did not know what they were signing' and that the banks 'tricked' them and they should 'forgive' or 'write down' their loans, thereby passing the costs of their irresponsibility and greed along to everyone else.
Astounding how many people bought this self-serving nonsense, as if the banks somehow forced people to take out all these loans.
4
Stick to burlesque. It's probably a lot more fun, and you're getting a little exercise too! I started coding in college and in no time realized I didn't want to spend my days sitting still. I loved programming. And I think I had the knack. And, for an introvert like myself it was a good fit. BUT, it felt so unhealthy..... I moved two tons of roofing debris yesterday. I feel great. The sun was out. The guy at the dump was giving out Otter-pops! Not sure what I'm doing today, but at least I'll be moving around. Dad made it to 102. Walking to the end. He said to keep moving. He's right y'know. Another thing to consider, whatever I do, can't be done from India or China.
103
Your secret sauce is your attitude. Marvelous!
Coding is no guarantee of a job in 25 - 30 year either. New programming languages are being created and there's always the hot shots from the latest graduating class nipping at the heals of older programmers. Programming is also becoming automated to some extent and this trend will only increase. Look at how obsolete COBOL and FORTRAN programmers have become! Sure there are niche jobs for these ancient languages, but the pay is not Silion Valley grade and many of the work locations are not acceptable to many people to re-locate to these areas.
I'm sorry we left you this mess, it was not intentional. The one thing I learned in my 60 yrs as a us citizen, never vote R ever again. One thing remains true, one party represents the rich. College was heavily susidized when I attended because the democrats ran congress for decades, what changed. They fooled many, including me. Dont be fooled by the orange one, he does not represent you or care.
41
there was a time when th entire uni of ca system was virtually free
then regan came along
19
I came from a poor and very troubled family. I would not have a degree now if college had not been so cheap back before Reaganomics and if I hadn't been able to get grants that were not loans.
Reaganites made the very idea of college suspect. They didn't see much purpose for it and were constantly creating false outrage over things like students buying cheap stereos for their dorm rooms.
They hated knowledge, they hated intellectuals, and they hated higher education. It's a wonder that our technology industry managed to survive. Luckily the Reaganites needed some students to be educated enough to design bombers and aircraft carriers and nuclear weapons. So they were able to see at least those few advantages in higher education.
Reaganites made the very idea of college suspect. They didn't see much purpose for it and were constantly creating false outrage over things like students buying cheap stereos for their dorm rooms.
They hated knowledge, they hated intellectuals, and they hated higher education. It's a wonder that our technology industry managed to survive. Luckily the Reaganites needed some students to be educated enough to design bombers and aircraft carriers and nuclear weapons. So they were able to see at least those few advantages in higher education.
14
First-off, these are millennials; they are female millennials.
Second-off, the problem women face in SMET is not confidence (or lack thereof), but overconfidence (confidence falsely instilled in them by these "you go girl" engineering-day programs at schools telling girls they can do anything.
Second-off, the problem women face in SMET is not confidence (or lack thereof), but overconfidence (confidence falsely instilled in them by these "you go girl" engineering-day programs at schools telling girls they can do anything.
9
Coding is not engineering. Coding is a prerequisite for engineers. Like reading is for a philosophy major.
11
Mister X, I earned a 4.2 GPA as an engineering and physics major and I earned a Ph.D. in physics at Caltech. I have learned that none of this matters to a lot of guys out there. They are always trying to undermine my self-confidence. It never stops.
For example, I mastered General Relativity through independent study and that was a real accomplishment to do that. Even so, I still had to listen to cranky men who had a hard time passing GR when they took it as a class and had the advantage of lectures and blackboards. I had to listen to them trying to convince me that women don't have spatial skills. They could barely pass GR with an actual class to help them, yet they still had the nerve to subject me to that.
So I think the problem is that these women are constantly having their confidence undermined by jerky insecure guys who are really afraid of the extra competition women entering the field present.
For example, I mastered General Relativity through independent study and that was a real accomplishment to do that. Even so, I still had to listen to cranky men who had a hard time passing GR when they took it as a class and had the advantage of lectures and blackboards. I had to listen to them trying to convince me that women don't have spatial skills. They could barely pass GR with an actual class to help them, yet they still had the nerve to subject me to that.
So I think the problem is that these women are constantly having their confidence undermined by jerky insecure guys who are really afraid of the extra competition women entering the field present.
3
Coding is not a pre-requisite for engineering.
You cannot do philosophy without learning to read.
But you can be an engineer without having learned to code.
Your analogy has failed you.
You cannot do philosophy without learning to read.
But you can be an engineer without having learned to code.
Your analogy has failed you.
3
So studying philosophy and the history of science somehow entitles one to a career in something other than making coffee? I'm not sure how many job listings for "philosophers" and "science historians" are listed on Monster.com, but my guess would be very few.
Too late now but perhaps a little guidance from parents. counselors, etc. might have helped select a course of study in college might help to find a job.
And the cost of housing conversation always makes me laugh. Do these people expect to be living in a wealthy suburb on wages earned in a coffee shop? Maybe they should be a little more realistic in their expectations.
Too late now but perhaps a little guidance from parents. counselors, etc. might have helped select a course of study in college might help to find a job.
And the cost of housing conversation always makes me laugh. Do these people expect to be living in a wealthy suburb on wages earned in a coffee shop? Maybe they should be a little more realistic in their expectations.
15
The history of science is an important subject to understand because it's important to know how we arrived at the state of scientific and technological development we're at now. We can't treat science like we just found it by the side of the road one day. What we know now, what we're able to do now -- the earliest foundations for that were being laid thousands of years ago.
We have to be more than just a nation of people with job skills. We need to have things like history and philosophy and so we have to keep training people in those fields.
We have to be more than just a nation of people with job skills. We need to have things like history and philosophy and so we have to keep training people in those fields.
13
it all starts w santa claus
parents who tell their kids of that original deception are guilty of child abuse
4
I was a philosophy major with a minor in French. I am now a cardiologist at an Ivy League medical center and work for one of the largest pharmaceutical companies on the plant, doing clinical research. Its your ability to solve problems, ability to work with others, motivation, and role models which will determine your fate, not your specific undergraduate major.
13
I'd like to remind everyone that the minimum wage in inflation adjusted dollars was about 30% higher in the 70's, in 1968 it was 42% at about $10.34 in 2012 dollars based on DOL data. Average rents are up by over 50% in inflation adjusted dollars at least here in Louisiana over the same period according to U.S. Census Bureau data. Of course those average rents are also vastly lower than what most people pay here in New Orleans or other cities around the country where millennials tend to live.
People need to take a close look at inflation adjusted income and costs to really make sense of the economic situation of millennials today. This requires looking beyond the CPI an obviously imperfect measure of cost inflation for the average American.
People need to take a close look at inflation adjusted income and costs to really make sense of the economic situation of millennials today. This requires looking beyond the CPI an obviously imperfect measure of cost inflation for the average American.
31
@Wiley - I'm not sure your backward look at how "good" you think things were is of any value. Any generation could do the same, this is nothing new. A real issue that some millennials tend to ignore, is the large number of them who stay home, not working even part time, while they bemoan the fact that they can't find their ideal job in their preferred field of study. Very committed to not considering work outside of that scope, of course they can't begin to pay down student debt (if they have any, some don't), save money or move toward independence.
2
The unemployment rate for people aged 18-29 is 8.3%, among the lowest in the world for that age range. Implying that most millennials stay at home and don't try to work is ignorant at best when so many are struggling. Not to mention the fact that many entry level jobs have become unpaid internships making entry to the professional class hard even for those with college degrees.
Taking a look at how real costs and wages have changed over time and how our policies and regulations have shaped these changes is invaluable to make any real progress.
And to be clear I have no illusions that those were better times. Religious and ethnic minorities, women, and lgbts had far less access to our economic and legislative institutions. But many, many, people are now earning wages that are so low they would have been prohibited by law from the 1950's through the mid 80's.
Taking a look at how real costs and wages have changed over time and how our policies and regulations have shaped these changes is invaluable to make any real progress.
And to be clear I have no illusions that those were better times. Religious and ethnic minorities, women, and lgbts had far less access to our economic and legislative institutions. But many, many, people are now earning wages that are so low they would have been prohibited by law from the 1950's through the mid 80's.
3
Does the CPI include the latest cell phone, Internet, cable, Hulu subscriptions, lattes, and vacations to foreign countries?
Let us make sure we know why living is more expensive. It is just not CPI costs going up.
Let us make sure we know why living is more expensive. It is just not CPI costs going up.
I wonder how they will feel when an H-1-B visa immigrant takes their jobs or companies shift these jobs to less expensive places. I hear Seattle is pretty expensive.
27
TiSA (Trade in Services Agreement), TPP's more destructive sibling, is designed to do the US Services Sector (83%+ of US jobs) what outsourcing did to manufacturing and heavy industry here.
TiSA introduces "30 Day Must Approve Visas". After Big Globalist Corp. applies for 10,000 H1B visas, if the govt has not rejected the application within 30 days, the visas are "automatically approved"...
TiSA and TPP use the term "highly mobile global labor" to describe the process of "Free-Trade" in services sector labor (Healthcare, IT, STEM, Insurance, Finance, etc., etc.) - which will be the *primary* commodity "freely" traded among signatory nations.
TPP and TiSA will make the US part of a stealth "EU" type trade zone and the EUs "Four Freedoms" (google the term) will be used to drag wages down in Western nations to "global norms" (i.e., *way* lower) so as to radically lower the cost of doing business (labor is by far the biggest cost of doing business) in Western nations to radically increase profits in globalist corporations *and* radically increase the power and control of globalist governments kept in place by "amnestied" fiat votes.
TiSA introduces "30 Day Must Approve Visas". After Big Globalist Corp. applies for 10,000 H1B visas, if the govt has not rejected the application within 30 days, the visas are "automatically approved"...
TiSA and TPP use the term "highly mobile global labor" to describe the process of "Free-Trade" in services sector labor (Healthcare, IT, STEM, Insurance, Finance, etc., etc.) - which will be the *primary* commodity "freely" traded among signatory nations.
TPP and TiSA will make the US part of a stealth "EU" type trade zone and the EUs "Four Freedoms" (google the term) will be used to drag wages down in Western nations to "global norms" (i.e., *way* lower) so as to radically lower the cost of doing business (labor is by far the biggest cost of doing business) in Western nations to radically increase profits in globalist corporations *and* radically increase the power and control of globalist governments kept in place by "amnestied" fiat votes.
48
That's not how it works.
1
So if it all gets bad enough, what will the government controllers do about all those people with guns and ammo. Do we get to look forward to a new civil war based on economic anger?
I'm a boomer. When I bought my first house interest rates were 11% and the bank required 20% down. We had "stagflation" and unemployment was usually around 9%. The job market was competitive for everyone. I remember typing countless, individual cover letters on my Smith-Corona to mail out with carefully drafted and re-drafted resumes. Then waiting by the phone for calls for interviews (we didn't have answering machines). After finally getting a job out of college, I started on the bottom and worked for years to gradually move up the organization and advance my career. I took evening classes, the whole bit. The gravy doesn't begin to flow until you're well into your 40's. The formula is the same today. Make sure you have skills that are relevant and valued by employers, be available when opportunity comes your way, live below your means, save and invest.
48
Yes, you do get some 'gravy' by 50. And then shown the door by 45 or 50.
I suppose we should really coach the young that working for corporations is really meant for the ages of between 24 and 45. You then have to figure out how to make a living from 45 to 65.
It will only be worse for them...every job market is now global in scope.
You and I did not face that at 24.
I suppose we should really coach the young that working for corporations is really meant for the ages of between 24 and 45. You then have to figure out how to make a living from 45 to 65.
It will only be worse for them...every job market is now global in scope.
You and I did not face that at 24.
14
11% of what? What was the average pay vs the standard of living at the time? Gas was what, .30 a gallon? How about health insurance? Clearly outstanding debt wasn't an issue if you were able to afford that "first" house and even if it were, you'd have the right to bankruptcy (something student debt does not have the right to- thanks to boomers). Your job market was competitive against other Americans, not against a world in a race to the pits of pay. You had no internet to allow businesses to splinter their work streams to foreign countries for a fraction of the cost.
Your entitlements will never be touched while ours will never exist, and we are STILL expected to supplement your health needs through mandatory insurance. Yet you still think your plight was the same?
Your entitlements will never be touched while ours will never exist, and we are STILL expected to supplement your health needs through mandatory insurance. Yet you still think your plight was the same?
18
You also enjoyed the ability to get a good public college education that could actually be paid for by your summer job (see recent articles on this). And if you didn't want that college education, you could still find a pretty good job that didn't require one and actually pay for a family on a single income. (Let's not even mention how on the job training used to be a thing.) Housing interest rates might have been higher, but the actual housing costs have gone way up in relation to wages and the massive increases in the value of those houses mostly owned by boomers far outpaced your interest payments. While we're talking about wages, boomers let the once somewhat reasonable minimum wage slide steadily back (the $1.60 in 1968 would equal $10.34 in 2012). You also enjoyed historically low energy costs while pumping out emissions that are leaving those that came after you stuck with climate change as our problem. All the while you voted in politicians that cut taxes, racked up debt, gutted public education, and protected the sacred cows of your retirement and medical coverage while passing along the costs to your children. The data is plainly there for all to see if you bother to research. Oh, by the way. Thanks!
8
The biggest problem for millienials is a lack of options in terms of cities. We are lured to the cities for the job opportunities, culture, and being able to live a more sustainable lifestyle that involves being car-less/car-lite. Unfortunately, there are only a handful of cities in the US where we can actually live. We have a choice between the "Chicago's" with rampant crime and horrendous public schools but affordable rent or the "Seattle's" that are safer and have decent public schools, if you ever want to raise a family, but are incredibly expensive. The only cities left are the "Houston's" that are only a city by population but are sprawling, car-centric wastelands. The feds need to provide the resources and infrastructure to not only make the "Seattle's" more affordable but also provide the resources to improve the "Chicago's" and "Houston's" to be more desirable, sustainable and safer places to live.
13
Here is what you people don't seem to understand. These "feds" are you and me. No one forces you to live anywhere. If you want to be an actor, moving to Baton Rouge is probably not the best idea. If you want to work in technology, don't complain that you can't find a job in Mississippi.
At some point we need to stop blaming the government and start taking responsibility for our own actions.
Rich people study philosophy and the history of science and art history because they can afford to. Poor people and immigrants study engineering and physics because they need to find jobs upon graduation.
At some point we need to stop blaming the government and start taking responsibility for our own actions.
Rich people study philosophy and the history of science and art history because they can afford to. Poor people and immigrants study engineering and physics because they need to find jobs upon graduation.
5
You people? I am 30 with an MBA and own a home in Seattle before you pass any further judgement. I agree that no one forces you to live anywhere, but it makes no sense that there only about 5 cities in this huge country that are safe, have a strong job market and are not sprawling into the abyss. If the free market is attracting so many people to these 5 incredibly expensive, prosperous cities, then isn't it in the feds interest to create favorable conditions to produce more of them?
4
And yet as difficult as the job opportunities appear to be for these folks they still will vote for Hillary and the Democrats who have a love for more immigration. Just what their economy needs - more competition for lousy jobs.
11
I live in Germany, where not only is higher education free, but grants to study abroad are plentiful. Tertiary students typically do at least a year overseas, often working for companies where they're getting valuable experience.
Americans and Brits should be worried about this. The current generation are the best educated in history, who speak multiple languages and have international experience. Everybody who thinks that Europe is out for the count hasn't woken up to the fact that the next generation of workers from the dynamic economies of Holland, Scandinavia, Austria, Germany and Switzerland are being primed to do great things.
This weighing students down with untenable levels of debt is madness. Not just for them, but for society generally.
Americans and Brits should be worried about this. The current generation are the best educated in history, who speak multiple languages and have international experience. Everybody who thinks that Europe is out for the count hasn't woken up to the fact that the next generation of workers from the dynamic economies of Holland, Scandinavia, Austria, Germany and Switzerland are being primed to do great things.
This weighing students down with untenable levels of debt is madness. Not just for them, but for society generally.
45
Agreed! The US of A is woefully out of touch with how to build a strong, equitable crop of young people. And we're way too proud to admit that so many countries are ahead of us in healthcare, education, innovation, and reliable income.
The quality of life in the countries you mentioned is enviable. And there is no way it can be incorporated here due to our politicians being in the pockets of every major multi-national corporation.
I wonder, are there income limitations on executive pay in Germany? Because, as you probably know, major corporations here in the US can receive $25 million in compensation and lay off 10,000 -- all in one week!
The quality of life in the countries you mentioned is enviable. And there is no way it can be incorporated here due to our politicians being in the pockets of every major multi-national corporation.
I wonder, are there income limitations on executive pay in Germany? Because, as you probably know, major corporations here in the US can receive $25 million in compensation and lay off 10,000 -- all in one week!
10
Germany is going to have major problems with Muslim "refugees" who do not want to share western values and want to make all of Europe part of an Islamic Caliphate with Shira law.
4
Germany does not allow students to attend college for free if they are woefully unprepared. Nor does it let students study theater or philosophy on the taxpayer's dime.
The US can have 'free' public universities, but only if there is rationing and limits on majors.
The US can have 'free' public universities, but only if there is rationing and limits on majors.
5
Boy, the millennial bashing comments. Leaving aside the smug mean-spiritedness, they are just so darned unoriginal. What's the matter, Boomers - can't come up with an original burn? You all read the same article in Newsweek five years back?
Heck, I bet I could write a bot over a long weekend that would generate infinite high-quality Boomer grumps about the new generation. Just feed it lines like "smug" "entitled" "smart phone" "hipster" "useless degree" "gumption" "Brooklyn" "nobody owes you" - add a bit of syntax, and bam! No need for you old folks to comment on the Times anymore, because you were just automated out of a job.
Heck, I bet I could write a bot over a long weekend that would generate infinite high-quality Boomer grumps about the new generation. Just feed it lines like "smug" "entitled" "smart phone" "hipster" "useless degree" "gumption" "Brooklyn" "nobody owes you" - add a bit of syntax, and bam! No need for you old folks to comment on the Times anymore, because you were just automated out of a job.
17
You don't answer any of the criticisms or address their validity, though; you just complain about being criticized.
11
@Clem - Sorry to point out to you that your entire comment sounds smug, mean-spirited and unoriginal.
9
As a millennial in Seattle, I'm both charmed to see the city featured here and alarmed that it holds up as a bastion of the anxiety a lot of young people have. Just the past few years have brought many changes to the city, with the tech industry booming and the skyline, population, and cost of living moving on up accordingly. Seattle simultaneously has a homelessness crisis and luxury apartment buildings sprouting up every which way you turn. So many, including myself, seem stuck somewhere in the middle, unable to afford an $1800 studio apartment but still reasonably hopeful that the next job or the next degree will get them there.
5
I feel when pushed to a corner you can either fight or flight. I want to fight, the idea about the so called middle class needs some rethinking. We can no longer go to college for 4 years and be settled for life,own a house, get two cars etc. The very nature of capricious jobs like the ones in the tech companies demand that we will have to continuously reinvent ourselves, continuously invest in learning what is relevant in the current scenario. This sounds exhausting but that is the challenge of our generation to be on our toes always.
Having said this what can be the expectation from a company or government is that they help us with this reskilling so that we stay relevant. However the current trend is firing the employee so that this onus of reskilling now shifts on the employee. This is very sad and some answering and ownership is required on this front.
Having said this what can be the expectation from a company or government is that they help us with this reskilling so that we stay relevant. However the current trend is firing the employee so that this onus of reskilling now shifts on the employee. This is very sad and some answering and ownership is required on this front.
13
Not to be crude but can you let us know when it was guaranteed that one would be able to "go to college for 4 years and be settled for life,own a house, get two cars etc."?
5
Hi Eint,
I see how my comment can be misinterpreted, however what I meant was the entire concept of 'arrival into the middle class' needs rethinking. It was not to criticize anyone as I have not experienced those days. What I can tell based on my personal experience right now is that society expects me to meet some check boxes which I am currently struggling with and don't believe in as well.
Regards,
Shail
I see how my comment can be misinterpreted, however what I meant was the entire concept of 'arrival into the middle class' needs rethinking. It was not to criticize anyone as I have not experienced those days. What I can tell based on my personal experience right now is that society expects me to meet some check boxes which I am currently struggling with and don't believe in as well.
Regards,
Shail
1
I suppose I am hopelessly old but to me, a gig is something one shows up to at night with an electric guitar, a job is something else entirely. Seriously, every generation faces hard times during their twenties. I am a Boomer and our issues were a dicey job market, extremely high mortgage interest rate (my first mortgage rate was 15%), etc. Another thing was the change in oil prices, I recall instances when a lot of people moved to Houston because jobs were plentiful and then a few years later, people were moving from Houston because they'd lost their jobs. Life isn't easy for any generation and people have to try to protect themselves as best they can. For example, don't take on nearly $100K in debt for degrees in areas that won't lead to jobs such as philosophy or "the history of science," whatever that is; don't expect to live as comfortably as your parents when you are first starting out on your own (if you do, don't leave home), don't attend DeVry-like colleges, go to public schools..
14
You can easily end up with $100K in debt at a public university these days, in many states. Times (and prices) have changed significantly.
7
@SD - Community colleges aren't prestigious but they're more affordable.
4
It can be done, but it's not easy. Average state school tuition (in-state) is about $9,500 per year. I suppose you could borrow all of it and including expenses and run up a debt of $100,000 or more. But most of us worked in college, paid some of our expenses that way. Work-study is a way to defray tuition. And unless your parents are wealthy and thereby capable of helping with costs, you will also qualify for financial aid.
Plus, if you're not able to work the higher education properly, do I really want to hire you? it really isn't that hard.
Plus, if you're not able to work the higher education properly, do I really want to hire you? it really isn't that hard.
1
yup, way harder then when I was in my 20's, all we had was 20% interest rates, the draft to go to Vietnam, cities in flames, leaders assassinated, massive recessions, and worst of all, huge amounts of micro-aggressions. These people sound so utterly clueless and self pittying I almost root for them to fail.
23
Yes, there was a time when men didn't have the choice to go to war. I hadn't even considered that! And I think every generation spends their 20's being poor but this one seems to not tolerate that. I remember in college living in an unheated one bedroom upstairs from a drug dealer. I loved that place and the feeling of independence, despite the fact that it was a hole in the wall and unsafe! Now that has been replaced with apartments for students that are nicer than my house, with a saltwater pool, crossfit room, theater space, free wireless....
16
The vitriol people send at millennial issues is incredible (and not just for it's crassness). Had we removed the term "Millenial" in this article, and instead replaced it with "Under 40 adults" there may be less of an "Us vs Them" mentality. A significant segment of our economy is dependent on having a population of people persuing careers, unladen by marriage, children, and mortgages and fully able to buy and invest their income as they plan for those future obligations.
What we have is a population of people pursuing whatever job is available to service debt with no savings, no ability to file bankruptcy, utter fraud and robbery for healthcare, and thus ZERO ability to forecast their own futures. Yet we have people turning their noses up at their plight because...why? They grew up during a time of technology? Lets not forget about the culture they were raised in either. Constant war, repeated economic collapses, non-stop terrorism, joblessness and stagnant (or declining) pay. But people scoff at the fact that adults under 40 don't want to pursue the things their parents did despite growing up in households saturated in anxiety as the good times disappeared?
It's insane, and it's strangling our economy and our community and will lead to trauma for the next several generations.
This isn't a "millenial" issue, it's an American issue. And it's not going to improve with snooty tuts and crass eye-rolling.
What we have is a population of people pursuing whatever job is available to service debt with no savings, no ability to file bankruptcy, utter fraud and robbery for healthcare, and thus ZERO ability to forecast their own futures. Yet we have people turning their noses up at their plight because...why? They grew up during a time of technology? Lets not forget about the culture they were raised in either. Constant war, repeated economic collapses, non-stop terrorism, joblessness and stagnant (or declining) pay. But people scoff at the fact that adults under 40 don't want to pursue the things their parents did despite growing up in households saturated in anxiety as the good times disappeared?
It's insane, and it's strangling our economy and our community and will lead to trauma for the next several generations.
This isn't a "millenial" issue, it's an American issue. And it's not going to improve with snooty tuts and crass eye-rolling.
51
My mid-30's kid has worked hourly jobs ever since he graduated, with an MA, from Boston College. He's barely making it, but thinks he's the only one, so he must not be trying hard enough. His MA has been a hindrance rather than a help. Most of the time he leaves it off job applications. Companies only want to hire people who already know how to do all the jobs. What's up with that?
9
No one has an ability to forecast their futures. That's why it's called the future.
Certainty has never existed in the job market.
Certainty has never existed in the job market.
2
@CJ - Actually your characterization is dramatically overdrawn. And not every millennial is "working whatever job" to "service debt". Some are, and quite a few aren't. Try imagining this: You're 9 to 11 years old in 1929 and the entire country falls into a recession unmatched at any point in history. Very little to no money for your family because there were almost no jobs, let alone in one's "preferred choice". Spending hours in lines for soup kitchens or bread lines so you won't starve. After living through that and slowly recovering, you're a young adult and you get World War II. Try the anxiety, stress of fighting in a war, or be the families/spouses/loved ones of those overseas and worrying constantly about their safety and if they will live. THAT, my friend, is a difficult period to live through. That is truly "zero ability to forecast their own futures". $22,000 in student debt is easy compared to that, take any job and work hard, you can pursue your "dream job" later.
12
Unless I'm missing something, nearly everyone in the article interviewed is a mid-twenties to early thirties woman who is restarting her career at Ada. These are people who made choices (or had them made for them) that didn't work out as they hoped, and have re-directed themselves, which is clearly admirable. But by interviewing only people who've been through these struggles, and accordingly have apprehensions about life, are you not generalizing millennials as a whole? i understand that is the nature of articles such as these, but it's pretty hard to draw meaningful conclusions about all millennials from just this one.
21
@Listening - A good point indeed. I personally know, and/or am related to, quite a few millennials, and they're all doing well, are gainfully employed, pay their bills and debts and still find time to work toward getting to their preferred goals in life. And there's no "poor me" attitude involved. But you know the media, they'd rather write about a drama or tragedy.
3
I don't know if today is all that different from the 60's and 70's when the Boomers were coming of age. Back then we worried about nuclear war and M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction). I remember always being aware of where I was located geographically vis-a-vis a nuclear target, which way the radioactive dust would blow, etc. The other civilization-ending trend was the population explosion, and we were deeply distrustful of "the system" ("don't trust anyone over 30" -- have we the Boomers proven that dictum correct?).
13
All white folks featured here (and I get it; Seattle's a very white city). Not to minimize their real struggles, but imagine how much harder it is for people of color confronting discrimination built into the system. This article would be much stronger if it examined the experience of different kinds of millennials.
19
There's a new in-depth story every other day on the NYT about the plight in various ethnic communities. You must be looking in the wrong sections...
11
While you mentioned in passing the Baby Boom generation's upset regarding the Vietnam war, etc., you failed to mention that we grew up in the era of nuclear testing, radiation clouds, duck and cover under our school desks, the Cuban Missile crisis, and the like. Impending annihilation was our daily fare.
17
Except for the thought that we could escape to the lunar colony and look down on all the earthlings....
3
Not to mention an apartheid country where women did not have the right to information about birth control or their own bodies.
2
You need to add to that the civil rights movement and race riots.
4
I get it. I'll be thirty in a couple months, and my life is already pretty much over. No future. A lacking present. I got past it though, and now I'm only miserable like 50% of the time. Welcome to the United States of 2016.
17
th mass of humanity would consider themselves lucky indeed to be miserable only half th time
remember th words of woody allen
“I feel that life is divided into the horrible and the miserable. That's the two categories. The horrible are like, I don't know, terminal cases, you know, and blind people, crippled. I don't know how they get through life. It's amazing to me. And the miserable is everyone else. So you should be thankful that you're miserable, because that's very lucky, to be miserable.”
― Woody Allen, Annie Hall: Screenplay
6
Young people did not used to take out student loans for majors where there have never been any jobs, such as art, theater, philosophy, or poetry.
That so many students borrow large sums of money for useless degrees is astounding, as if they believe their specialness will make up for their lack of any real world skills.
Note what immigrant students are studying and follow their lead, not your heart, which only a rich person can do.
Why is this news?
That so many students borrow large sums of money for useless degrees is astounding, as if they believe their specialness will make up for their lack of any real world skills.
Note what immigrant students are studying and follow their lead, not your heart, which only a rich person can do.
Why is this news?
31
This is news because the NY Times famously backloads their liberal political rhetoric with tidbits of facts.
After 15 months of trashing Donald Trump, mocking Trump voters as uneducated white people and declaring Trump unfit to be President, the NYT sprinkles in stories of urban blight, rural poverty and millennial uncertainty, with morsels of reality checks on Obamacare which is now unraveling as predicted.
This newspaper does this in some bizarre view that if they tell a little truth occasionally, their constant lies are vindicated.
This news article isn't set in the 1700s.
What's happening to people across America during the Obama Era is happening now.
It defies sanity to walk into a voting booth, as an unemployed or underemployed person my age and vote for the same status quo liberal bloat that has this country where we are now.
And the liberals call US the crazy ones?
Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome?
After 15 months of trashing Donald Trump, mocking Trump voters as uneducated white people and declaring Trump unfit to be President, the NYT sprinkles in stories of urban blight, rural poverty and millennial uncertainty, with morsels of reality checks on Obamacare which is now unraveling as predicted.
This newspaper does this in some bizarre view that if they tell a little truth occasionally, their constant lies are vindicated.
This news article isn't set in the 1700s.
What's happening to people across America during the Obama Era is happening now.
It defies sanity to walk into a voting booth, as an unemployed or underemployed person my age and vote for the same status quo liberal bloat that has this country where we are now.
And the liberals call US the crazy ones?
Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome?
7
Doesn't matter whose heart you follow; in 20 years there won't be any jobs anyway. What can automation not do? If you figure that out, tell me, and do that.
2
Young people didn't used to have to take out loans for any field of study, because college was *affordable*.
The days when you could pay for a year of college with a summer job (like several of my aunts and uncles did in the '70s) are long gone.
The days when you could pay for a year of college with a summer job (like several of my aunts and uncles did in the '70s) are long gone.
5
remember th old swashbuckling films of th 30s and 40s
th british sailors imprisoned in a galley ship, rowing huge oars to propel th ship faster
beaten, half starved, chained for life, th only escape is death
well, coding isnt that good
6
Part of the problem is that millennials were sheltered from normal amounts of anxiety/concern by parents and teachers so they never learned how to manage it. At the office it was common for millennials to send out unchecked work. Boomers would have to “catch” the problems then send the work back to the millennials to re-do, w errors highlighted (think high school). Errors included typos, wrong data too quickly copied from a chart, etc. Millennials NEVER checked their own work because “a boomer will do it.” And they made the same mistakes over and over because the safety net was always there. Well, now that safety net is going away: the big wake up. There is a difference between debilitating/clinical anxiety and just plain concern or conscientiousness. Millennials have difficulty distinguishing between them because they were never allowed to develop coping skills -- resilience is needed by every generation. So who hobbled them? Boomer parents! lol
26
What a ridiculous overgeneralization.
I believe it's been fairly common throughout human history for young people to make some mistakes when they're new on the job. It's called "learning". I'm sure you made some inadvertent errors when you started your career, too.
I believe it's been fairly common throughout human history for young people to make some mistakes when they're new on the job. It's called "learning". I'm sure you made some inadvertent errors when you started your career, too.
4
A lot of their parents are 50 year old Gen Xers.
4
Exactly! Speaking for myself and not all other gen xers with millennial children, these kids have it together much more than I did at their age. I wouldn't even have made it through the zero tolerance high school that my kids attended.
2
If everyone is a coder the wages for coders will inevitably fall.
23
Whoa, dude, did you take a macroeconomics course? You've got a future in economic forecasting.
4
Stop making sense about market forces. It's just not PC...
4
To provide perspective on my view, I like many other commenters here fall under the millennial category at 30 years old. In addition, I am an entrepreneur in a non-technical field after originally working in software engineering positions.
This article and previous ones focusing on millennial worldviews highlight the terrible knowledge gap in basic life-skills such as financial planning and an understanding of how a capitalistic system works. Though I am happy for the interviewees mentioned in this article finding solid footing, the "life stories" told mention glaring mistakes that not only wrought terrible financial consequences, but left lasting psychological impacts.
For example, one should never have their assets in the stock market if that money must be used within a known and reasonably near timespan (see in the article "dot-com crash of the early 2000s"). Another example is with regards to Ms. Spicer's $72,000 student debt load with annual income of not more than $17,000 - is there really anything else there that needs to be said?
In our country the expectation is placed on parents to teach sound financial principles, but this is akin to "the blind leading the blind" and thus we must rely on the public system. In this regard it's incredible that we have classes in advanced literature, mathematics, and science yet do not provide pragmatic, practical knowledge about financial concepts such as assets and liabilities.
This article and previous ones focusing on millennial worldviews highlight the terrible knowledge gap in basic life-skills such as financial planning and an understanding of how a capitalistic system works. Though I am happy for the interviewees mentioned in this article finding solid footing, the "life stories" told mention glaring mistakes that not only wrought terrible financial consequences, but left lasting psychological impacts.
For example, one should never have their assets in the stock market if that money must be used within a known and reasonably near timespan (see in the article "dot-com crash of the early 2000s"). Another example is with regards to Ms. Spicer's $72,000 student debt load with annual income of not more than $17,000 - is there really anything else there that needs to be said?
In our country the expectation is placed on parents to teach sound financial principles, but this is akin to "the blind leading the blind" and thus we must rely on the public system. In this regard it's incredible that we have classes in advanced literature, mathematics, and science yet do not provide pragmatic, practical knowledge about financial concepts such as assets and liabilities.
36
What fun would the capitalists have if we educated young people in financial matters? Regulating the student loan industry because of its highly vulnerable customer base? Heaven forbid....
5
Is there really anything else there that needs to be said?
Yes, she got $72,000 in debt for a degree in philosophy and the history of science.
Yes, she got $72,000 in debt for a degree in philosophy and the history of science.
8
"For example, one should never have their assets in the stock market if that money must be used within a known and reasonably near timespan ..."
This pertains to nothing or no one in the article. Otherwise, your comments are good ones.
This pertains to nothing or no one in the article. Otherwise, your comments are good ones.
I am so glad I am not young. I am scared for my future and I am very frightened for young citizens. The world is no longer their oyster. We are all holding on by a shoestring luckily for me I don't have my future ahead of me. I wish the madness would stop.
14
Despite being Oxford educated, I am in the same Millennial boat. It's not that we are lazy, or uneducated, or not trying hard enough, or do not have the experience blah blah blah. Nope. One short straw and you are done. In my case: lay offs at a multi-billion dollar company. It's been hard to get back on the horse, since. Many employers treat 'laid off' workers on par with having AIDS in the 1980s. Scary indeed.
40
Trying being a boomer and getting laid off, your chances of finding a job are much less than those of a millenial
6
Bit of a stretch to equate being an Oxford educated millennial and laid off to being on par or worse with the stigma of someone having AIDS from the 1980s.
Speaking as a Boomer, unwillingly retired but able to collect Social Security, it seems to me these people aren't really that much different from my friends who were living in the gig economy of the early '70s. The real difference is that the economy no longer gives them the same opportunity to experiment with their life-plans.
We could graduate from college with little debt and an impractical degree in philosophy or anthropology and live in a cheap apartment and take jobs that we shucked when they bored us, and play at different things until we found a career or a lifestyle that suited us. Life doesn't afford Millennials that freedom.
There is indeed a grim future staring at all of us now, and there are no guarantees that it will all work out. There never were guarantees, but the margin for error is a so much less now than it was when Boomer.s were young.
We could graduate from college with little debt and an impractical degree in philosophy or anthropology and live in a cheap apartment and take jobs that we shucked when they bored us, and play at different things until we found a career or a lifestyle that suited us. Life doesn't afford Millennials that freedom.
There is indeed a grim future staring at all of us now, and there are no guarantees that it will all work out. There never were guarantees, but the margin for error is a so much less now than it was when Boomer.s were young.
107
As a 20 year old in 1973, I can tell you there was an awful lot of anxiety about the future - Nixon, Watergate, the war, recession, enormous social distortion and confusion, and above all the threat of nuclear war. This last was a profound fact of life at the time - I and my friends never dreamed we'd make it to the millennium. How would that be possible, given the chaos and posturing of the times? I never thought we would have it as good as our parents.
But it worked out in spite of all the obstacles, the lack of resources. I sometimes regret all of that thinking, it was a waste and a hindrance.
Live today. Appreciate what you have. Compare your situation to those in danger or less fortunate. Life goes where it will, we're just along for the ride.
But it worked out in spite of all the obstacles, the lack of resources. I sometimes regret all of that thinking, it was a waste and a hindrance.
Live today. Appreciate what you have. Compare your situation to those in danger or less fortunate. Life goes where it will, we're just along for the ride.
8
I'm a boomer, and I just don't see that much difference between my experiences in finding work and building a career in the doldrums of the 1970s and what Millenials are going through now. Maybe rents were more affordable and we didn't have as much college debt, but it wasn't easy then, either. We had the Cold War and Vietnam, and the same sense that things were spinning out of control. Nothing in life is easy! You do need to relinquish an attitude of entitlement, work hard, and settle for whatever contentment you can get from life (and a job, if you're lucky).
89
It's all the same thing in the end. Every generation is faced with its custom built challenges. Stop complaining. Get to work. I know dozens of Millenials who are making it in spades, some from poor backgrounds. Stop complaining and think.
By the way, what has our hero Bernie done since he stopped dissing Hiliary. NOTHING! Spoiler alert. He was a jerk, and still is.
By the way, what has our hero Bernie done since he stopped dissing Hiliary. NOTHING! Spoiler alert. He was a jerk, and still is.
1
also, boomers today are facing what ms. boshart's father faced - years of service, and drudgery, given to a company or service just to be able to have a viable and sustainable old age -- only to be thrown out, sometimes just before reaching a pension threshold, insurance benefits that we were told was part of being a "grown up" and gainfully employed, ripped away and a constant scolding from economic "experts" that say our uncertain future is our own fault. boomers, x-ers and millenials, we're all in the same rotting boat.
2
True, yet the world is indeed a much smaller and more competitive place thesee days. In your youth, most likely you never thought that India or China would be a world competitor in many fields with the USA.
People who think that the 1960s or 1970s offered the prospect of a future of comfort and ease seem to be confusing television sit-coms with reality.
35
I left college with around $10,000 in low interest loans, that my death would have actually discharged. Upon getting my first job, I actually received training from a mentor within the company on what the company needed me to do. I could rent a tiny house in an East Coast city and buy a $1000 used car without acquiring debt. Yes, I majored in engineering; I liked it and was good at math. Not everyone has these abilities; I still think people should be able to eat and keep a roof over themselves even if they're not geniuses.
10
@ Blue State
Yes, but that will not happen as long as we continue to bring in another 100,000 workers every month.
Supply and demand wins every time.
Yes, but that will not happen as long as we continue to bring in another 100,000 workers every month.
Supply and demand wins every time.
4
The millennials' problem is that they think they are worth $90K/yr. Come to Nevada where there is a huge shortage of good teachers. But then the starting pay is less than half of 90K. But then, too, unionized waiters and cocktail hostesses with combined incomes can afford a nice house for their children.
My daughter, a teacher of 15 years in affluent New Jersey, should reach 90K in about five years. That's for someone with a "Masters plus 30."
Get real, NYT. Stop worrying about the people who want to make 90K off the bat with a degree in literature and 70K in student loans.
My daughter, a teacher of 15 years in affluent New Jersey, should reach 90K in about five years. That's for someone with a "Masters plus 30."
Get real, NYT. Stop worrying about the people who want to make 90K off the bat with a degree in literature and 70K in student loans.
30
I'm sorry, but no entry-level job pays $90K to someone with zero experience -- not in software or any field. My husband found this out after spending $10K to attend one of these coding bootcamps. It turns out entry-level jobs require a year of work experience (e.g. internship or unpaid startup) and THEN typically pay in the $40K range, in the NYC-NJ-Philly area anyhow.
The NYT loves the rags-to-riches stories about baristas who attend coding school and poof! a few months later make $80-120K. But that's not what I've observed, and like law schools, these coding schools pad their graduation statistics by hiring their own grads short-term -- a position that does not enhance prospects because TAing a course doesn't really count as software experience. Caveat emptor.
The NYT loves the rags-to-riches stories about baristas who attend coding school and poof! a few months later make $80-120K. But that's not what I've observed, and like law schools, these coding schools pad their graduation statistics by hiring their own grads short-term -- a position that does not enhance prospects because TAing a course doesn't really count as software experience. Caveat emptor.
120
First year analysts at Wall Street banks make well more than $90K. With zero experience.
Coding will not pay that much because it is easy to ship those jobs overseas. India has phenomenal engineering schools and Indians are happy with much less money.
Coding will not pay that much because it is easy to ship those jobs overseas. India has phenomenal engineering schools and Indians are happy with much less money.
8
Also beware coding for game development. They expect 80 hours a week of work because every shiny eyed coder thinks this will be their dream job. They leave after a year and code for some nice enterprise software company that only makes them work 60 hours a week.
5
Maybe they don't pay that to people who attend "coding camps," but people who do four-year computer science degrees can definitely be hired at those rates. An ex of mine started off at 85k after graduating with a 3.0 from a second-tier tech school, in the exact geographic area you mention.
For some Millennials, the problem starts with their college choices. If you don't want crippling debt, don't go to a private school. There are excellent public universities that will give you a great education at a much lower cost. Be smart about your major--if you love philosophy, try to do a double major with science or math. Don't linger in college--it's too expensive to spend five or six years if you can graduate sooner. Of course, many colleges are at fault here for not providing enough courses that students need to graduate quickly. Ultimately, we need the Sanders model of low/no cost tuition at public universities with enough funding to make sure students can graduate on time.
20
I would also say not to take every loan you're offered. The fin aid office is required to tell you everything you're eligible for, but you may have lower expenses than their expense side of the ledger lists. Living at home? Don't take the room and board part of the loan. Don't take the miscellaneous and travel parts of the loans. Apply for Pell and state aid; some states have aid programs that can go to private college students. Especially don't take the extra loan money and buy a nicer phone plan or car. Don't work 30+ hours a week at an off campus job. Parents - your kids' job while in college is to go to college, not to work also, unless on campus at library or coffeehouse where they understand about studying.
3
"we need the Sanders model of low/no cost tuition at public universities with enough funding to make sure students can graduate on time."
It is generally accepted that an IQ of at least 110 is necessary to do college level work, since 50% of the population has an IQ less than 100 that would mean that at least 60% of the population can not do college level work
unless the courses are dumbed down to meet their lower IQ level. The idea that everyone should go to college is just plain stupid.
It is generally accepted that an IQ of at least 110 is necessary to do college level work, since 50% of the population has an IQ less than 100 that would mean that at least 60% of the population can not do college level work
unless the courses are dumbed down to meet their lower IQ level. The idea that everyone should go to college is just plain stupid.
5
Yes! I knew that I needed both a liberal education and skills to be a worthwhile person. I also knew that both of these goals would not be completely obtained in college, and that they would be very difficult to obtain without college. I was fortunate to have had a good start coming from a farm(skills aplenty) and having educated parents. I was especially fortunate to be in a time and place where I could do a double-plus major at a "public ivy" for almost nothing, and get scholarships beside.
Life has gone well for me, but as I look back it was mostly luck. I worked hard and made mostly good choices but these were largely incidental to my good fortune. So what happens to young people who are as intrinsically deserving as I ever was, but not so lucky? Especially if they want a double major. Nearly free college, as in 1960s Big Ten and Cal schools, would help.
Life has gone well for me, but as I look back it was mostly luck. I worked hard and made mostly good choices but these were largely incidental to my good fortune. So what happens to young people who are as intrinsically deserving as I ever was, but not so lucky? Especially if they want a double major. Nearly free college, as in 1960s Big Ten and Cal schools, would help.
1
Dear Millennials: Don't despair! We boomers, who have lived through race riots and church bombings, the idiocy of the Vietnam War, 4 or 5 recessions, and our own scrambled thinking of the 60's, somehow made it to the finish line; albeit some better off than others in terms of mobility. It's not just your generation that is anxious; it appears the whole nation needs retraining and reorientation to be successful in modernity. You millennials , as us boomers, might be surprised at the outcome of years of effort and education, service to country, raising kids, and changing careers. Success is never guaranteed, but preparation and participation certainly improves one's chances. And us boomers are in the process of moving out of the picture, so it's gen-X's turn.
This boomer never achieved the success imagined when twenty. Looking back from 65 I see the impediments and class stratification, unable to overcome; and my own foibles and misdirection. Life in the U.S. is an anxious enterprise, deliberately. Keeps us on our toes. In simple terms, keep the faith, hope for the best, and participate in everyday life. We'll all be surprised by our collective success. The U.S. is a project with a sometimes unruly government, but a world presence, dependent on it's citizens' positive perception of the future.
This boomer never achieved the success imagined when twenty. Looking back from 65 I see the impediments and class stratification, unable to overcome; and my own foibles and misdirection. Life in the U.S. is an anxious enterprise, deliberately. Keeps us on our toes. In simple terms, keep the faith, hope for the best, and participate in everyday life. We'll all be surprised by our collective success. The U.S. is a project with a sometimes unruly government, but a world presence, dependent on it's citizens' positive perception of the future.
5
everyone makes it to th finish line
its only a question of how and when
1
Sure wish we had a Kennedy and a space project again. [I don't wish for exactly a Kennedy, just a young president with a big unifying project, and I don't really seek a big cold war enemy....]
1
Yet another article about the future doesn't look so bright for recent college grads, yet the NY Times is not pushing for reductions in immigration even though it is clear immigrants (legal and illegal) are by and large being hired simply to undercut American wages. All because the 1% don't have enough money or at least that is the feeling I get listening to the 3 leading presidential candidates (and unfortunately the Greens are pro open border, though they do acknowledge the issues with that at least). Can the NY Times at least start advocating governments (especially 3rd worls countries) start promoting reasonable population growth reduction/reversal before we all become peasants in a soylent green future.
19
My parents were optimistic people .. they raised optimistic people. I don't see optimism in this article ... guess it's all relative. I borrowed a lot of money to finish college -- education provided me opportunities not imagined in my youth.
I borrowed sensibly to purchase my first house and car -- it was all a bit daunting for sure .. but also exciting. We need more excitement and positive thought -- the world is not coming to an end ... especially for those so fortunate to be born in the USA.
I borrowed sensibly to purchase my first house and car -- it was all a bit daunting for sure .. but also exciting. We need more excitement and positive thought -- the world is not coming to an end ... especially for those so fortunate to be born in the USA.
8
When I was a kid we were excited about space travel. Now the exciting thing is when we'll get self driving cars. Not quite the same.
2
I was born in 1963. I grew up with assassinations, Vietnam, rampant drug use, and above all the constant threat of nuclear annihilation.
My friends and I didn't worry about the future. We didn't expect to have one. So most of us didn't get 4 year degrees, have only 1 or no children at all, and don't own our homes. We don't have much saved for retirement, and we're not too sure about social security.
But we've traveled, had good times together, been of service, helped each other, and have grand stories to tell. And guess what? For most people that's all there is.
And to all you millennials who can't afford Seattle, come on down to Tacoma. It's beautiful, less expensive, and has less traffic once you get off the freeway.
My friends and I didn't worry about the future. We didn't expect to have one. So most of us didn't get 4 year degrees, have only 1 or no children at all, and don't own our homes. We don't have much saved for retirement, and we're not too sure about social security.
But we've traveled, had good times together, been of service, helped each other, and have grand stories to tell. And guess what? For most people that's all there is.
And to all you millennials who can't afford Seattle, come on down to Tacoma. It's beautiful, less expensive, and has less traffic once you get off the freeway.
26
Having been in and out of the job market over the years and having been on the side of the employer and the job seeker, I see one big problem for millennials: Companies are looking for people who have the EXACT work experience they need. Unfortunately, it's much more important to have 100% relatable experience than to be smart, hard working, flexible, enthusiastic, and charming. I've seen dullards with the right line items on a resume get hired over brilliant, dynamic, less experienced candidates. Tech companies, I believe, are the exception - that's why they are dominating the business landscape. But everyone can't be a tech worker, can they?
13
Tech companies are hardly the exception; if anything, they developed the model. Not only do they insist on potential employees having all the skills they list, they often throw in a few more than are strictly necessary to do the job.
Not that a long list of requirements will stop them from lobbying for offshore resources, many of whom are unskilled, propaganda notwithstanding. The government's endless collusion with business to undercut US workers is at the heart of the problem.
Not that a long list of requirements will stop them from lobbying for offshore resources, many of whom are unskilled, propaganda notwithstanding. The government's endless collusion with business to undercut US workers is at the heart of the problem.
6
I have a sinking feeling these tech students are like the law school students of 10-15 years ago: going into this trade on the assumption that 'lawyers make a lot of money in steady jobs' is written in the Bill of Rights, the Ten Commandments, or the laws of physics. Then they discover that pay was high because there were so few lawyers, and that students in India and China can do what they do for a fraction of the cost. Bust follows boom, but debt is forever.
Training for careers is a lot like being on a sinking ship: when one side lists, everyone runs to the side that's sticking up out of the water, sending it seesawing down. Like the lawyers, unless you are at the tippy-top of your class, you will be asking 'do you want fries with that?' and in hock for your degree for the rest of your life. Moreover, the fast-evolving tech world will put you on a treadmill, in which your skills are obsolete the moment you acquire them.
Ironically, I think Ms Boshart may make a better go of her burlesque. I'd love to see it; it sounds great. And she's offering an unique product.
FWIW, when I finished college in 1979, I decided not to go for an advanced degree because PhD's were driving cabs. (Fortunately, I tailored my choice of school to my budget, lived at home and commuted, and similarly economized, so I graduated with zero debt.)
Training for careers is a lot like being on a sinking ship: when one side lists, everyone runs to the side that's sticking up out of the water, sending it seesawing down. Like the lawyers, unless you are at the tippy-top of your class, you will be asking 'do you want fries with that?' and in hock for your degree for the rest of your life. Moreover, the fast-evolving tech world will put you on a treadmill, in which your skills are obsolete the moment you acquire them.
Ironically, I think Ms Boshart may make a better go of her burlesque. I'd love to see it; it sounds great. And she's offering an unique product.
FWIW, when I finished college in 1979, I decided not to go for an advanced degree because PhD's were driving cabs. (Fortunately, I tailored my choice of school to my budget, lived at home and commuted, and similarly economized, so I graduated with zero debt.)
36
Exactly, tech jobs will not pay well in the future because to many people are trying to do it.
7
And once you're old, they don't want you even if you try to keep your skills up. You'll never be cheaper than a new grad or a desperate Indian.
10
Ever the self-promoter: http://www.annextheatre.org/2016-season/guest-productions/star-trek-sexe...
Millennials are going to pay the debts us boomers are running up. They are now fighting endless wars. They are told they should lay down and lose jobs etc just like us and they ain't having it. They are looking out for themselves just as we did.
3
america has become a place of darkness and despair
th rich live better than royalty, th condition of th rest grows dimmer every year
in 50 years modern americans have managed to make a mockery and shambles from th ideals of th founders
you must be bursting w pride
5
some are bursting with rage actually. They're angry at the wrong thing. They hate communism, but it's the end stage capitalism that's killing them.
2
@DannyInKC - What are you talking about? I doubt you're really a "boomer" if you think that they're "running up bills" for millennials. That's baloney. The students in the article are benefiting from free tuition at the tech school which is funded by big tech companies (free recruiting source in the end). And no boomer forced Ms. Boshart to borrow $22,000, or Ms. Spicer to take out a loan costing $72,000 for a degree in philosophy & history of science. They both could have gotten full time jobs and gone to the community college near their homes.
2
Not sure this is about age or technology; it seems to reflect the struggles of the middle class period. Are you listening, Clinton or Trump? At least younger people have a chance to try again and again; imagine the struggles of those 40 or up if laid off or otherwise out of work. (40 = legal age for age discrimination, at least in MA.)
But about growing vegetables, which are portrayed a bit pathetically here: Growing your own is NOT a burden. I’ve worked part time on a local farm for over a decade and show people how to grow tons of things. You can EASILY add to any diet with just a little bit of space and sunshine. Lettuce, kale, tomatoes, some cabbages, broccoli, peppers, eggplant, potatoes, all herbs - tons of things can be in pots. And much of it can be frozen. And the pots? Anything with a hole and even bags work. I’ve given away old crates, broken clay or plastic pots, heavy duty shopping bags, you name it. The point: Engaging in a little bit of self sufficiency does wonders for your state of mind.
And of course, Support small farms, including your own!!
But about growing vegetables, which are portrayed a bit pathetically here: Growing your own is NOT a burden. I’ve worked part time on a local farm for over a decade and show people how to grow tons of things. You can EASILY add to any diet with just a little bit of space and sunshine. Lettuce, kale, tomatoes, some cabbages, broccoli, peppers, eggplant, potatoes, all herbs - tons of things can be in pots. And much of it can be frozen. And the pots? Anything with a hole and even bags work. I’ve given away old crates, broken clay or plastic pots, heavy duty shopping bags, you name it. The point: Engaging in a little bit of self sufficiency does wonders for your state of mind.
And of course, Support small farms, including your own!!
16
Where would we be without growing tomatoes! Those store bought things are an insult....
1
Boo hoo... Sniffle...
5
When more and more people think that “things are going to have to burn before they get better,” as one of the persons interviewed for this article said, politicians should start to seriously question their work.
Nevertheless, such thoughts are extremely dangerous. After burning down, political systems rarely get better. Too often in history people wanted to shake things up and made them only worse. From the French revolution ending in Jacobin terror under Robespierre to the Arab spring ending in civil war and tyranny, just wanting to change the status quo without reasoning about alternatives destroyed everything well-meaning people fought for.
The idea that things will just turn out well after the current system has been taken apart has repeatedly been proven wrong but still lurks around in people's minds. This is why Trump is so popular, and why he has to be argued against with all means.
Many things are going wrong in the US and other Western nations. But as healthy constitutional democracies they still offer a good starting point for changing things in a thoughtful way, while many other countries don't. Let's use this advantage and not throw it away.
Nevertheless, such thoughts are extremely dangerous. After burning down, political systems rarely get better. Too often in history people wanted to shake things up and made them only worse. From the French revolution ending in Jacobin terror under Robespierre to the Arab spring ending in civil war and tyranny, just wanting to change the status quo without reasoning about alternatives destroyed everything well-meaning people fought for.
The idea that things will just turn out well after the current system has been taken apart has repeatedly been proven wrong but still lurks around in people's minds. This is why Trump is so popular, and why he has to be argued against with all means.
Many things are going wrong in the US and other Western nations. But as healthy constitutional democracies they still offer a good starting point for changing things in a thoughtful way, while many other countries don't. Let's use this advantage and not throw it away.
32
"But as healthy constitutional democracies they still offer a good starting point for changing things in a thoughtful way, while many other countries don't. Let's use this advantage and not throw it away."
That only works when those in power allow you to take it away. We call ourselves a democracy, but the choice between two drinks sprinkled with iocane powder is not a choice. Those in power won't allow it to be.
That only works when those in power allow you to take it away. We call ourselves a democracy, but the choice between two drinks sprinkled with iocane powder is not a choice. Those in power won't allow it to be.
4
There is no finer example of a city screwed up by its Liberal Lefty elected officials.. From the exploding homeless population to a downtown rampant with drug pushers and aggressive panhandlers the city is a testament to the Left's inability and unwillingness to deal with social misfits who are allowed free rein throughout the city.
13
ugh
3
Wouldn't it be more accurate to accuse Seattle of being a city "screwed up" by rampant capitalism and an insufficient level of "left" or progressive or social minded policies?
The problem Seattle faces right now of rapidly rising housing costs is caused by an increase in high paying jobs from corporations. Wouldn't that be more accurate to say?
One person's social misfit is another to another person - someone living freely.
The problem Seattle faces right now of rapidly rising housing costs is caused by an increase in high paying jobs from corporations. Wouldn't that be more accurate to say?
One person's social misfit is another to another person - someone living freely.
3
'and an insufficient level of "left" or progressive or social minded policies.'
That statement is absurd to anyone who has spent extended time in the city. Rapidly rising housing costs are by no means unique to Seattle. What is unique is the unwillingness of its Leftist mayor and his Leftwing administration to clean up the rampant deterioration of the downtown area and the explosion of homeless tent cities.
That statement is absurd to anyone who has spent extended time in the city. Rapidly rising housing costs are by no means unique to Seattle. What is unique is the unwillingness of its Leftist mayor and his Leftwing administration to clean up the rampant deterioration of the downtown area and the explosion of homeless tent cities.
2
A few thoughts: In many ways, I don't think Millennials are so different from Gen Xers. Speaking as a Gen Xer, I can tell you that many of us lived at home after graduating from college. There were not plentiful jobs for us, either. True, we didn't have quite the college loan debt that Millennials are facing now, but that's directly attributable to there being no regulations or caps on the cost of tuition, which continues to rise at a dramatic pace. My friends and I also chose to marry quite late-- mid-30s to early 40s. I've only been married for five years. We don't plan to have kids because the direction of this country and culture in general is very discouraging. I also think the world has a horrible overpopulation problem. After working in journalism and non-profits for a long time, I finally "sold out" for the comfort of earning a steady, good income. I'm in a tech field that I actually like a lot. I'm around educated, good people all day. But in the end, am I creating good in the world? Probably not. But I'm not hurting anyone and I'm not struggling financially, which is a great change. The truth is that America is getting dumber and we're doing it voluntarily. We refuse as a whole to vote in our own best interests. As a result, we are behind almost every developed nation when it comes to health care, education, and vacation/family time. This country has made it clear that we only care about one thing: Money. A job won't ever be your "community."
47
And all the smart people are having few or no kids, or adopting the children of stupid people, and the stupid people are having lots of kids. Yay.
5
TLDR: Life, as it ever has been, is uncertain.
8
For a generation addicted to video screens, parental safety nets, and a large sense of entitlement...they should be anxious...outside of their generic computer skills that are shared by millions upon millions of Indians and Chinese they lack many of the skills needed to compete successfully in the new economy.
11
What's your job? You seem pretty sure you couldn't be outsourced. Your comment reflects exactly the attitude every generation has about the next.
2
He's a stoic, look it up.
I own a company that does diesel engine repairs on boats....can't find a single one of these dainty little millennianls willing to work...we have to bring in immigrants from Texas who are in fact enthusiastic about learning the skills and doing the work...My wife is an executive at a corporation and they do everything in their power to avoid hiring these little snowflakes...they whine and moan continuously...won't put in the time to learn...as soon as the job gets hard or they get reprimanded for poor work they quit and go find another job....
7
Behind these stories of millennial distress is a radical shift in income distribution. When the top 1% takes so very much, everyone else has less.
51
From Joe: **Is it any wonder that young people, even the ones with opportunity, are gun shy of the future? We have made such a mess of this world that I would not want to be young again if it meant being in this era of total dysfunction. Our environment, our politics and our chance at a meaningful future have been squandered by greed, avarice and ignorance. Or leaders see the problems and do what is not in the world's or the country's best interests. **
Also nearer to the end of my life, I agree with you on all points and feel exactly the same
But I have to take exception to this line: "After this season's behavior in the primaries on both sides..." I get that right leaning Americans have an overwhelming distaste for even considering a left leaning candidate. But it is simply untrue that both primaries were equally laden with bad actors and bad behaviors.
Please consider a look-see at this:
http://www.vox.com/2016/7/28/12281222/trump-clinton-conventions
We may wish for more, for better, for different from our Democratic leaders, but the comparison between Democrats' failings and this new iteration of Republican **leadership** is simply un-comparable. The choice may irk, but the choice is inescapable ... if WE are dedicated to do our portion in the best interests of our country.
Also nearer to the end of my life, I agree with you on all points and feel exactly the same
But I have to take exception to this line: "After this season's behavior in the primaries on both sides..." I get that right leaning Americans have an overwhelming distaste for even considering a left leaning candidate. But it is simply untrue that both primaries were equally laden with bad actors and bad behaviors.
Please consider a look-see at this:
http://www.vox.com/2016/7/28/12281222/trump-clinton-conventions
We may wish for more, for better, for different from our Democratic leaders, but the comparison between Democrats' failings and this new iteration of Republican **leadership** is simply un-comparable. The choice may irk, but the choice is inescapable ... if WE are dedicated to do our portion in the best interests of our country.
4
Before the Great Recession and historically, young adults achieved financial independence somewhere around 18-24. I'm guessing the gap is mostly explained by educational obtainment. You figure these individuals started their careers fairly quickly. Within 2-5 years, most were successfully climbing the economic ladder. Maybe not epic salary growth but stable and clearly on their way up.
After the Great Recession and now seemingly forever, the average age of financial independence is 25-27. Your low end just jumped a full 7 years. A greater number are already obtaining higher education so the gap is more likely explained by long periods of unemployment and/or underemployment. Even "financial independence" often means low-paying jobs, 3 roommates, and the occasional dumpster dive.
Let's say you land your first professional gig. Chances are you took whatever you could get. The pay was probably about 20% below your skill level. You now work that job for several years only to find 1) there's absolutely no opportunity for advancement, 2) your wage is never going to budge and the benefits suck, and 3) you don't really like the work anyway. It's okay though. Everyone around you is experiencing the same or worse.
You're now 30-something. Still in debt. Not much savings. No real prospects. You're still looking for something better or at least something different. Still no luck. That's basically the millennial experience. There's quite a lot to be optimistic about. More of the same.
After the Great Recession and now seemingly forever, the average age of financial independence is 25-27. Your low end just jumped a full 7 years. A greater number are already obtaining higher education so the gap is more likely explained by long periods of unemployment and/or underemployment. Even "financial independence" often means low-paying jobs, 3 roommates, and the occasional dumpster dive.
Let's say you land your first professional gig. Chances are you took whatever you could get. The pay was probably about 20% below your skill level. You now work that job for several years only to find 1) there's absolutely no opportunity for advancement, 2) your wage is never going to budge and the benefits suck, and 3) you don't really like the work anyway. It's okay though. Everyone around you is experiencing the same or worse.
You're now 30-something. Still in debt. Not much savings. No real prospects. You're still looking for something better or at least something different. Still no luck. That's basically the millennial experience. There's quite a lot to be optimistic about. More of the same.
19
I would so love to retire and get out of the way for new graduates, but if I live from now (55 y.o.) to 85, that is 20 too many years to count on the money still being there.
4
You're overqualified for millennials. It's Gen-Xers that want you gone. At 55 though, you're fortunate to still have a job. Most individuals I know in that age bracket were forced into quasi-retirement. The grocery store is hiring.
However, you had better hope someone makes room for millennials. Last I checked, social security is a pay as you go proposition. If the now largest working generation isn't making any money, they don't have to pay much in taxes either.
Just try raising the retirement age. Ageism is an increasingly blatant and unaddressed problem. You think 75 million millennials are going to take a ride when they're less likely to be employed at 55 than you. Good luck with that. It worked out great for Marco Rubio.
However, you had better hope someone makes room for millennials. Last I checked, social security is a pay as you go proposition. If the now largest working generation isn't making any money, they don't have to pay much in taxes either.
Just try raising the retirement age. Ageism is an increasingly blatant and unaddressed problem. You think 75 million millennials are going to take a ride when they're less likely to be employed at 55 than you. Good luck with that. It worked out great for Marco Rubio.
2
Actually, the lack of mobility in this country is fairly new. You are correct.
1
I have thought often about how much harder today's young people have it than my generation did when we graduated college. When I graduated from college in the Bay Area in 1981, and was not sure yet what I wanted to do, I was able to easily survive on a couple low-paying part time jobs -- back then I was paying $175 a month rent for my own studio apartment. I was able to change careers 3 times in my life, starting at bottom pay scale each time, because housing was not yet terribly expensive. That began to change in 2003/2004 when my rent doubled after moving out of an apartment I'd lived in for 14 years.
I think we need to look very seriously at something that we hardly are willing to talk about -- overpopulation -- and consider how overpopulation of the planet is at the root of nearly every serious problem we face, from global warming, to the housing crisis and increased costs of housing, to a greater scarcity of jobs, and eventually, to shortages of fuel, food and water. The exploding population of the planet is a problem that younger generations will have to contend with, as they will experience the effects much more profoundly. Millennials in the US may have their difficulties, but consider... we just read an article in the NYT recently about how middle class people in Venezuela are currently going hungry each day because they can't get enough food, and doctors and school teachers are going off to dig in the mud at illegal gold mines just so they can get fed.
I think we need to look very seriously at something that we hardly are willing to talk about -- overpopulation -- and consider how overpopulation of the planet is at the root of nearly every serious problem we face, from global warming, to the housing crisis and increased costs of housing, to a greater scarcity of jobs, and eventually, to shortages of fuel, food and water. The exploding population of the planet is a problem that younger generations will have to contend with, as they will experience the effects much more profoundly. Millennials in the US may have their difficulties, but consider... we just read an article in the NYT recently about how middle class people in Venezuela are currently going hungry each day because they can't get enough food, and doctors and school teachers are going off to dig in the mud at illegal gold mines just so they can get fed.
33
Oakbranch is exactly right - and limiting family size (even volitionally) is a political third rail no one in our religiously run nation will touch (yet). But if the technological revolution has taught us anything it is that we need far fewer people for far fewer jobs. Just think of how workers could increase their negotiating power if there was an actual UNDER supply of unskilled labor. And our ever increasing numbers are absolutely destroying every resource on the planet. We are too many already. Would love to see this topic addressed during the debates.
16
Sheila, you got it exactly right. The excessive population is the elephant in the room. Martin Ford in his brilliant book, Rise of the Robots, maintains that almost ANY JOB can be done by robots going forward. Even highly trained radiologists, he predicts, will be replaced by automation, and soon. Don't think their are too many people? Drive I35 from Dallas to San Antonio or I95 from Miami up the eastern seaboard. Now imagine those same roads with 25% more cars. Chilling.
5
We import another million immigrants every year and have done so for 40+ years, with the inevitable result of an oversupply of labor.
The US needs the vitality and ambition of immigrants to thrive, but surely we do not need any more low skilled immigrants or another 100,000 new workers every single month.
The US needs the vitality and ambition of immigrants to thrive, but surely we do not need any more low skilled immigrants or another 100,000 new workers every single month.
28
People are right to fear credit, the banks and political system. We are well on the way to becoming like Brazil where the whole economic system is controlled by a few and most live in cardboard shacks. Unfortunately both of our presidential candidates are leading us in that direction but Trump is doing it much much faster, in his first 90 days in fact. The political apathy of the young is not accidental, it is part of a campaign by the right to suppress the vote.
Also it's a myth and ripoff that people can be readily trained as software engineers. More than thirty years in the business shows a few gems will turn up and some of the rest may find jobs programming a particular language but they will be the first to go when the jobs are sent overseas, programming becomes more automated or the language falls from favor.
Also it's a myth and ripoff that people can be readily trained as software engineers. More than thirty years in the business shows a few gems will turn up and some of the rest may find jobs programming a particular language but they will be the first to go when the jobs are sent overseas, programming becomes more automated or the language falls from favor.
14
th advice i give young men, not that ever listen, is to get a good education, a good job, and a vasectomy
i also advise not to marry, and to get a prenup if they feel they need to be part of that anachronistic ritual
if they ever feel th need to have children i advise them to get a dog from th pound
9
I am a Gen-X Seattle native, and I can assure these young people that very little in the world has ever led me to "a sense of comfort and ease", either. The degree I got from the U of Washington wasn't necessarily the one I preferred, but it was one that allowed me to get a entry level job out of school. Debt has always made me wary, and I don't think Social Security will be there for me, either. As for the environment, we had the Crying Indian commercial, which still haunts to this day.
The point is, this is part of something called growing up, finding your way in the world. Most often, you start broke, poor, sometimes on the wrong path, with the wrong person, or in the wrong job. With luck and time, you find a way, your way, to making sense of life.
The point is, this is part of something called growing up, finding your way in the world. Most often, you start broke, poor, sometimes on the wrong path, with the wrong person, or in the wrong job. With luck and time, you find a way, your way, to making sense of life.
34
If folk expect the political system to bring them prosperity then they will forever be disappointed. Under the current management which has caused stagnant growth with ever increasing regulations there is little hope for progress toward prosperity. If Hillary wins expect economic growth to become negative.
3
Better than if Trump wins—an end to life as we know it.
4
Actually I see the (non)election of George W. as the end to life as we knew it. He's the one who dragged us into an endless war that is draining our resources, both economically and emotionally. And he and his ilk created the Great Recession.
5
Excuse me, but if you recall, when the "current management" came into office, the only thing "growing" was the number of people being thrown into unemployment, to the tune of 750,000 a month.
Talk about whining.
Talk about whining.
3
The one ray of hope I like to hold onto is the fact all us millennials are all in this together. Every single one of us is feeling these same anxieties on some level and have either a) personally experienced some of the set backs these women have had, b) know MANY people close to us who have gone through these or c) are actually in a worse spot (weren't able to go to college and rack up $70,000 in student loans but are now trying to get by holding down minimum wage jobs).
I think this unity is pretty powerful and makes us more like our grandparents generation than our parents. 80 years ago good jobs were hard to come by, huge destructive forces were materializing which threatened humanity, and my guess is it didn't look like things were going to get better any time soon. So what happened? People planted gardens. People scrimped and saved what they could. Resources were shared by community members. Society rallied to conquer the threats which loomed over them when they finally became too large to ignore.
One day, our generation will be in charge. This is an indisputable fact given that people grow older and Baby Boomers will pass away. Millennials will compose the majority of Congress, live in the White House and hold state and local political office. It may take a while and hopefully this will be addressed sooner, but at some point I believe our collective experiences and hardships will fuel us to ultimately make our country stronger than it is today.
I think this unity is pretty powerful and makes us more like our grandparents generation than our parents. 80 years ago good jobs were hard to come by, huge destructive forces were materializing which threatened humanity, and my guess is it didn't look like things were going to get better any time soon. So what happened? People planted gardens. People scrimped and saved what they could. Resources were shared by community members. Society rallied to conquer the threats which loomed over them when they finally became too large to ignore.
One day, our generation will be in charge. This is an indisputable fact given that people grow older and Baby Boomers will pass away. Millennials will compose the majority of Congress, live in the White House and hold state and local political office. It may take a while and hopefully this will be addressed sooner, but at some point I believe our collective experiences and hardships will fuel us to ultimately make our country stronger than it is today.
20
I hope so too, kid. Good luck.
5
Yeah well as a boomer I thought that too but you know life is a grind you work for the man, the kids, the IRS etc. So pick a passion (not your job) and enjoy it. Keep healthy and have health insurance.
And all our political efforts spawned Trump good luck on that onend, the big money has always wondered and will because most people are idiots.
And all our political efforts spawned Trump good luck on that onend, the big money has always wondered and will because most people are idiots.
7
Yeah, sure Boomers had it great, what with the Vietnam War with a military draft (what's that, you say?), the Cold War, apartheid in our Southern states, no right to birth control for women, and...wait for it...most jobs even with a college degrees did not pay enough to live on.
Millennials seem like a nice bunch, but the idea that they may have to work hard for a decade or two to obtain their dreams is shocking to them, as if they are 'owed' that six figure job and corner office right out of college.
Welcome to the party. It was ever such.
Millennials seem like a nice bunch, but the idea that they may have to work hard for a decade or two to obtain their dreams is shocking to them, as if they are 'owed' that six figure job and corner office right out of college.
Welcome to the party. It was ever such.
6
Tech learning is everywhere, including online. I do not get why they have to be in Seattle.
9
Because it's a mecca for Millennials. I lived there when I was in my early 30's in the late 80's and early 90's. Seattle was still a provincial city then. This was at the time when there was a tremendous inflow of new arrivals, most from southern California who bought homes in a real estate selling frenzy with cash from the sale of their modest ranch houses in California. This was the beginning of the astronomical rising costs of living in the Seattle metro area. Many long time residents were very vocal in their anger at the arrival of these new comers flush with cash. And at that time there wasn't a tech boom going on there. There was a "grunge" boom, if you want to call it that. Boeing was the main employer then. I don't know about now. There was a "coolness" factor among the young to living there then as there is now. It's beautiful place to live, to be sure. Especially when the sun is shining.
2
They're getting FREE tuition. That's why they're in Seattle.
4
They have to be in Seattle to take advantage of Ada's free tuition. The tuition there is free because tech giants with local offices pay for it. They pay for it because they want the graduates to take jobs with them. Yes, the tech giants can hire work cheaper from foreign countries but in many ways it is easier to have the whole team in one geographic location and time zone. And, the tech companies can afford it - do not need to scrimp pennies as they rake in record profits.
Let's not encourage tech companies to be miserly. After all, there has to be some consumers left with a paycheck to buy products from the advertising that is their profit center.
Let's not encourage tech companies to be miserly. After all, there has to be some consumers left with a paycheck to buy products from the advertising that is their profit center.
3
And they should be worried. Coding is the sweatshop work of our time: hard-paced, repetitive-stress inducing, easily out-sourced abroad, promising no job security, with workers discarded from the best jobs as too old and slow by their late 30s. If one hasn't made it to management by then, one is pretty much cooked, set adrift in the piece-work underemployed world of self-employment, which most people are not cut out to be.
152
This narcissistic generation is finally coming to grips that they're not going to be rich and famous Silicon Valley moguls or rock stars.
Life is difficult when mom and dad aren't footing the bill, they'll find their way like every generation has before them, the world, and corporate America,for that matter owe them nothing.
Life is difficult when mom and dad aren't footing the bill, they'll find their way like every generation has before them, the world, and corporate America,for that matter owe them nothing.
23
Actually, the world owes its young people quite a bit. This country has done a horrible job of preparing and protecting its own interests when it comes to health care, education and vacation/family life. My parents had sick time, 3-4 weeks of vacation, a full hour for lunch...Those things are almost unheard of in today's job market. There is no security anymore and Americans also don't seem to be concerned about the fact that people are dying without health care. That drug companies get to charge whatever they want for life-saving medicines, that if you don't have money, you're finished in this country. That's not the way it should be. More and more of us do not have what our parents and grandparents had. And the worst part is, people like you got yours, so you don't care about anyone else. Why??
27
I agree with you. The boomers got the best of everything our country offers or used to offer (SS, full pensions, GI bill free education, subsidized housing after war, new infrastructure) and now they're passing the national debt onto the young without taking advantage of no interest loans which could be used to fund infrastructure repair, modernize public transportation, construct high speed rail, and education (all things that add jobs as a bonus).
I look at my parents who retired from teaching at age 55 and have nearly full salary as result of pensions and SS and think, "man do they have it made!" I'm hoping to buy a house that I truly like (not a piece of crap I could stretch to afford now) by age 40 - and I've never had any debt. I guess I'm debt averse too after the 2007 financial crisis began.
Good luck to the younger Millennials who aren't doctors or in tech!
I look at my parents who retired from teaching at age 55 and have nearly full salary as result of pensions and SS and think, "man do they have it made!" I'm hoping to buy a house that I truly like (not a piece of crap I could stretch to afford now) by age 40 - and I've never had any debt. I guess I'm debt averse too after the 2007 financial crisis began.
Good luck to the younger Millennials who aren't doctors or in tech!
5
@Lynn - You're wrong. First, many boomers are still working and paying taxes into social security, medicare and whatever else Congress spends. Secondly, there aren't any pensions for most boomers, you're thinking of the generation prior to that, and teachers & public servants. Social Security payments are quite modest. Your parents' pensions w/retirement at 53 are not the norm for most of the U.S. -- and whoever lived/lives in your state/county is still paying taxes towards your parents' teacher pensions. Most workers cannot retire that early, and if they have not been able to save and/or their 401ks have not recovered enough from the 2008 crash, they'll find it extremely difficult to live on what SS pays. Don't believe that all boomers have it made, because they don't.
4
Worrying only gives you wrinkles. There have always been worries. A good way to deal with that unknown, the future, is to think about what you want and how to achieve it.
It seems to me that many people go to college and do not benefit enough. Here in the UK, it is dawning on people that job-specific training may be a better alternative. Apprenticeships are seeing a revival.
If the quoted starting salary ($90k) is to be believed, the students at this school have already made a good decision and can look forward to a bright future -- as long as they continue to make decisions about their future. Good luck!
It seems to me that many people go to college and do not benefit enough. Here in the UK, it is dawning on people that job-specific training may be a better alternative. Apprenticeships are seeing a revival.
If the quoted starting salary ($90k) is to be believed, the students at this school have already made a good decision and can look forward to a bright future -- as long as they continue to make decisions about their future. Good luck!
5
If you go to college, study hard, don't drink and don't waste your energy on outside jobs, clubs and frivolity, beyond the the occasional Friday night. Studying hard doesn't mean doing everything assigned to you. That's B work. Do it all, work until it's all correct, turn it in on time, miss no lectures and tests, and go above what is assigned. That's A work and that's what you'll need in your job. Do this in software or nursing or music or history - whatever you're doing, do it harder than the rest.
1
@David - Smiling gives you wrinkles, too.
They should be worried, because there is no guarantee that tech jobs will pay handsomely in the future since, by their nature, they can be outsourced overseas even more so than now. Also, who is to say the market will not become over-saturated with American born workers?
The only constant is change. Smart millennials will develop an occupational Plan B, and maybe also Plans C & D, for when they reach their 40’s -60’s and still have a habit called eating.
The only constant is change. Smart millennials will develop an occupational Plan B, and maybe also Plans C & D, for when they reach their 40’s -60’s and still have a habit called eating.
15
I started coding in 1979, made big bucks until 2007 when the outsourcing to India began dropped 30% until I finally retired. Let Bob from Dell do the work. Once the rest of Asia learns to code from their shacks these 90k millenia will be flipin burgers good luck u all.
9
To be blunt, I find a great deal of these comments so far, (there are 26), depressing. "Strap yourself up by your bootstraps!" seems to be the main theme. "Things were bad when I was young, so stop your whining". Unreal. Back in the old days, we had unions, we had politicians that, were at the least, willing to actually talk to each,ooh, maybe even compromise! We had housing that was affordable, if you didn't go to college there were still jobs out there that paid a halfway decent wage, the list goes on forever. What have we left them? A planet that is slowly being destroyed with pollution and global warming, college costs that are overwhelming, healthcare that still is not truly affordable, on-going wars and terrorism that seems to increasing everyday including here in the US, leaving vets on the streets, schools, churches, children being blown away in school, hundreds of thousands of guns and no real fight to change that, racial discrimination that still exists, slums that have been ignored for decades, farm land that used to owned by farmers, not huge companies, I could go on and on. The history books will not be kind to us. We had the Good Old Days. The history books will not be kind to us. The past 30 years have been disgraceful. And, there was no serious fight to change any of it. The 1% took over. We let them. There was no "taking it to the streets!" The younger are left to struggle through it. Why didn't we "pull ourselves up by our bootstraps" and stop all this?
522
I'd rather be a millenial in the US today than a Jew in 1940 Germany. Or a conscript in a trench somewhere in France. Or a 19 year-old kid drafted into the Marine Corps storming a beach in the South Pacific.
Get over it. Every generation has problems. You should give thanks to the generations that came before you, because without their sacrifices, you wouldn't have the time or the freedom to worry about the 1%.
Get over it. Every generation has problems. You should give thanks to the generations that came before you, because without their sacrifices, you wouldn't have the time or the freedom to worry about the 1%.
7
Could not agree more!
5
It's not unreal .. it's the truth, One can always look to the negative side of life .. doing so does no god .. to you or society. I have never been anything but optimistic -- trust me the 70's were not as good as today.
1
A few thoughts after mulling over this article.
First of all, the word Seattle should not have been in the article. I read it looking for Seattle specific information and realized this is really a piece about Millennials.
Secondly, so much of life is an expectations game. These people for all their worries have food and a roof and the struggles, while real and heartfelt, are about upward mobility more than survival. Legit, nonetheless but hardly existential.
This is not different from how I grew up.
I graduated in 1990. After 6 months of temping and sending our resumes, my first job paid 19K salary. I put 3K worth of work suits on my credit card. That sounds ridiculous today, but suits were $300 or so and that's how much it cost me to get the right clothing, shoes, briefcase etc so I could feign being an upwardly mobile career woman.
So irresponsible, right? Kind of. I wore the same pair of jeans all weekend. My focus was 100% on getting ahead.
The money I invested in my education and clothing ultimately paid off---because I worked my rear end off. I worked weekends, long days etc and although I started out entry level, I moved up to management. IN 10 years time, I had a different life and financial picture.
I would love to tell you that's true of my peers, but there are friends I left behind financially. That is the struggle of the middle class. Without brains, luck and chutzpah, it is hard to get ahead and I had all 3.
Upward mobility is never guaranteed.
First of all, the word Seattle should not have been in the article. I read it looking for Seattle specific information and realized this is really a piece about Millennials.
Secondly, so much of life is an expectations game. These people for all their worries have food and a roof and the struggles, while real and heartfelt, are about upward mobility more than survival. Legit, nonetheless but hardly existential.
This is not different from how I grew up.
I graduated in 1990. After 6 months of temping and sending our resumes, my first job paid 19K salary. I put 3K worth of work suits on my credit card. That sounds ridiculous today, but suits were $300 or so and that's how much it cost me to get the right clothing, shoes, briefcase etc so I could feign being an upwardly mobile career woman.
So irresponsible, right? Kind of. I wore the same pair of jeans all weekend. My focus was 100% on getting ahead.
The money I invested in my education and clothing ultimately paid off---because I worked my rear end off. I worked weekends, long days etc and although I started out entry level, I moved up to management. IN 10 years time, I had a different life and financial picture.
I would love to tell you that's true of my peers, but there are friends I left behind financially. That is the struggle of the middle class. Without brains, luck and chutzpah, it is hard to get ahead and I had all 3.
Upward mobility is never guaranteed.
64
I'm just slightly younger than you are...I worked my butt off, too but my field was probably different. That was ok because I didn't expect to be rich. But the difference is that today, there aren't enough jobs. You have to have experience of some kind to get jobs. There are more people in the world, which means more competition. And those crippling college loan debts that so many younger people now carry--- sure, anything's possible, but you also have to be realistic. I never made more than about $60K all the way through my 30s and was laid off many times. The fact is, a job/career is not your family, is not your community, does not care about you. That's what people need to understand. I'm doing well now that I'm into my 40s but honestly, I have the understanding that it could all go away tomorrow. There are no guarantees in this economy, especially when our own government only cares about the elite 1%.
6
May the luck never run out.
But if it weren't for the luck, your hard work may well have not been enough.
It's just the way it is kiddo.
I imagine the 'friends' you passed by feel they've been working hard too.
At least they likely have humility, which never hurts.
But if it weren't for the luck, your hard work may well have not been enough.
It's just the way it is kiddo.
I imagine the 'friends' you passed by feel they've been working hard too.
At least they likely have humility, which never hurts.
5
I agree @GWE. I graduated from college in 2011 at the top of my class at CUNY with honors and awards. I did not enter college until I was 24. I worked my way through school full time, while working, and raising my baby daughter. Meanwhile, quite a few of my classmates, younger, still living at home, no bills or jobs, or responsibilities other than going to school and getting good grades could barely keep up. I welcomed the challenge of hardest courses and the professors everyone else complained about were my mentors. I got a job as a writer at a national law firm 2 weeks after graduation.
I worked my way up in that firm for 2 years, and paid my dues. While my coworkers were lining up at the punch clock at 5:28, I was still working. I worked weekends, and took work home. Now I work for myself. I make decent money, and the work is hard but rewarding, but I have more control over my life, and I can spend more time with my family. But I am also always working on the next thing, the next challenge, including my side business baking, and writing a book.
Brains, luck, and chutzpah!
I worked my way up in that firm for 2 years, and paid my dues. While my coworkers were lining up at the punch clock at 5:28, I was still working. I worked weekends, and took work home. Now I work for myself. I make decent money, and the work is hard but rewarding, but I have more control over my life, and I can spend more time with my family. But I am also always working on the next thing, the next challenge, including my side business baking, and writing a book.
Brains, luck, and chutzpah!
6
This is not just a Millennial thing. I am an early GenXer who saw my professional life crumble due to a relocation unfortunately timed to coincide with the Great Recession. We ended up short-selling out home, struggling fruitlessly to find better jobs in cities that might provide more opportunity, and incur enormous debt - including student loan debt when I realized my only solution was to return to school. Again! We're both employed and just purchased a house but everything feels so tenuous. I have become extremely risk averse; my focus is paying off all debt and not assuming any more. I don't see full retirement as ever in my future, short of disability. My outlook has shifted from future focused to one day at a time.
188
If only more Millennials were "extremely risk averse" from the start, they would have not taken out large student loans for useless degrees or bought homes within the means of one salary.
Millennials seem to think they deserve what it took most Boomers 20-30 years of working to obtain and, even then, want their first home to be a showcase of 2500 square feet for two people (!).
It is really not news that getting a degree in a field with many good-paying jobs, saving and investing your disposable income towards a down payment on a home, and buying a small starter home is the road to financial security.
Millennials seem to think they deserve what it took most Boomers 20-30 years of working to obtain and, even then, want their first home to be a showcase of 2500 square feet for two people (!).
It is really not news that getting a degree in a field with many good-paying jobs, saving and investing your disposable income towards a down payment on a home, and buying a small starter home is the road to financial security.
5
I've lived through being unemployed for long periods of time at least twice. I'm in a so-called STEM field so I should feel safe. There is no protection against getting older since we all do it. There is no protection against getting more expensive in terms of salary since we all become more experienced and more costly. If we have a family that's also a cost and we need to make more. The worst part of what I've lived through is this: I've reached a point where I don't want to spend anything or make any decisions involving money such as buying a home, go on a nice vacation no matter how little it costs, go to the doctor, or even go to a movie or buy myself a small treat. I don't know when I'll regret it because I'll be unemployed again, unemployed permanently (forced retirement), or need all my money to pay for medical treatment. And I have no debt right now but that could change in an instant if I have an accident or anything else.
Welcome to the American way of life for the 99%. We're scared stiff of making any decisions because if they turn out badly we wind up with nothing unless we're like Trump, or a corporation like one of the Big Three auto companies and get bailed out. We have safety nets for the very rich and nothing for those who keep the country running.
Welcome to the American way of life for the 99%. We're scared stiff of making any decisions because if they turn out badly we wind up with nothing unless we're like Trump, or a corporation like one of the Big Three auto companies and get bailed out. We have safety nets for the very rich and nothing for those who keep the country running.
3
hen3ry:
It's a travesty how skilled American workers have been sidelined in the global economy. This administration has been focused on the poor. The way the middle class has been treated vis-a-vis Obamacare is unbelievable.
Trump often speaks passionately and quite knowledgeably about the plight of the American worker. This is why many people are going to vote for him regardless of their race, ethnicity, party affiliation, etc.
Hillary talks about the problem, but only in terms of bigger government. She sounds just like Obama, and we know how his "big government" solutions worked out for the middle class. It got the bill.
It's a travesty how skilled American workers have been sidelined in the global economy. This administration has been focused on the poor. The way the middle class has been treated vis-a-vis Obamacare is unbelievable.
Trump often speaks passionately and quite knowledgeably about the plight of the American worker. This is why many people are going to vote for him regardless of their race, ethnicity, party affiliation, etc.
Hillary talks about the problem, but only in terms of bigger government. She sounds just like Obama, and we know how his "big government" solutions worked out for the middle class. It got the bill.
I too am a 28 year old millennial. I was born and raised in Brooklyn before the hipster crave began to stifle Brooklyn and every other trendy city. Everyone struggles, the world has always been unpredictable, grief and hard times will come upon people. While these struggles are unwanted, I can't sympathize with someone afraid about GMO food, afraid of a mortgage, or deep in debt from, a lackluster degree. In NYC alone, there are families of 8 surviving on 20k and would love just an opportunity to have half of what these hipsters complain about. I'm all for progression and self improvement but nothings worse than hearing these hispters whoa's about how the world is so unfair, because nothing in this world is guaranteed except death. Be grateful for what you have and work towards more.
130
Ha! Brooklyn hipsters are a unique breed indeed. I'll quote an anecdote from one 20 year old trust fund individual. "I'm moving. This apartment just bores me. I just need something a little less boring." The apartment is bigger than my parents house and any place I've ever lived. Meanwhile, no one in my cohort can afford to live near Williamsburg anymore. L-train renovation just spread the net. Thanks guys.
1
While I am a boomer, not a 'hipster,' I think it's silly to suggest that anyone struggling to get an education, better themselves and working hard has no reason to complain when they are fighting to stay out of the group that consists of 'families of 8 living on 20K.' The gutting of the middle class has serious implications for lower socio-economic groups. When I was in my peak earning years, I was paying in federal taxes alone enough to support a family of four at poverty level. In other words, it's the middle class in America that's always footed the bill for not only the military, but social programs that help everyone. This is truer than ever as it sure ain't coming from the top earners or big business.
3
J. Creque:
"I can't sympathize with someone afraid about GMO food"
*****
Of course not, but in all fairness this what liberal educators have wrought in their quest to create "responsible global citizens". We have young adults who believe the greatest injustice is a hurt feeling, and the gravest, most imminent threat is global warming. It's a complete disconnect from reality.
When the world doesn't measure up, they are disappointed. With those expectations, they are destined to a life of disappointments.
"I can't sympathize with someone afraid about GMO food"
*****
Of course not, but in all fairness this what liberal educators have wrought in their quest to create "responsible global citizens". We have young adults who believe the greatest injustice is a hurt feeling, and the gravest, most imminent threat is global warming. It's a complete disconnect from reality.
When the world doesn't measure up, they are disappointed. With those expectations, they are destined to a life of disappointments.
1
Odd that all the PCs in these photos are Macs. Even when just the power cord appears, you can tell they are using Macs. So, even with an uncertain future, they at least know to spring for the best.
12
Those are professional tools, so they do need the best
Possibly the Ada coding school supplies the computers.
Seattle has evolved into a liberal, unaffordable cesspool which I avoid at all costs!
5
thats good bc you cant afford it anyway
2
They must miss you at least as much as you miss them.
10
Ain't that the truth!
1
Americans are still overall some of most well off people, not just on the planet today, but during all of human history.
This eternal search to have a "better" life is a farce that produces nothing but bitterness (as evidenced by people like Donald Trump) because life is about purpose and meaning, not happiness and gluttony.
Edward Abbey described our economic system best when he wrote, "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell."
Dedicating your life to being a "tumor?" The story never ends well.
This eternal search to have a "better" life is a farce that produces nothing but bitterness (as evidenced by people like Donald Trump) because life is about purpose and meaning, not happiness and gluttony.
Edward Abbey described our economic system best when he wrote, "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell."
Dedicating your life to being a "tumor?" The story never ends well.
5
"“Things are going to have to burn before they get better,” he said."
3
Many of the interviewed subjects in this article seem to lament that various social trends or circumstances have left them and their peers in some unfortunate position, as if thee grass is somehow greener everywhere else. Yet many of these students moved to Seattle to pursue this specialized curriculum (apparently tuition-free) which trains them for the prospect of well-paying jobs upon completion. Sure the rents are rising, but that's typical of communities with growing economies. I'm sure most of these folks have the talent and intelligence to achieve success and contribute to improving the conditions that have them so concerned, but the tone expressed by many suggests they're too frightened of the future to ever make much of a difference.
3
I'm a Boomer, with over 10 millennial relatives and their partners. And I am sick of seeing those of my generation somehow comparing themselves to these young people in a way that makes us look good.
We had jobs. Lots of them. There were jobs for college graduates and high school graduates. Jobs for liberal arts majors as well as engineers.
We had cheap, and in many cases almost free education. You could work a summer job and a part-time job and pay for a degree from a place like UC Berkeley with no debt.
We had housing--all over the place. You could afford an apartment in the Village on a freelancer's salary, and buy a house in the burbs with little trouble.
Our parents had social security and medicare--we weren't consumed with worry about them.
The Boomers came of age when America was booming, when the middle class was growing, when jobs were plentiful, a good education affordable, and housing plentiful and cheap.
We are largely to blame for the mess millennials find themselves in. Instead of accusing them of whining, it's time we looked into the mirror, and--as we keep telling them to do--take responsibility.
We had jobs. Lots of them. There were jobs for college graduates and high school graduates. Jobs for liberal arts majors as well as engineers.
We had cheap, and in many cases almost free education. You could work a summer job and a part-time job and pay for a degree from a place like UC Berkeley with no debt.
We had housing--all over the place. You could afford an apartment in the Village on a freelancer's salary, and buy a house in the burbs with little trouble.
Our parents had social security and medicare--we weren't consumed with worry about them.
The Boomers came of age when America was booming, when the middle class was growing, when jobs were plentiful, a good education affordable, and housing plentiful and cheap.
We are largely to blame for the mess millennials find themselves in. Instead of accusing them of whining, it's time we looked into the mirror, and--as we keep telling them to do--take responsibility.
390
The 'mess' as well as the way 'we brought them up' -- coddled, entitled, 'every one is a winner', etc thinking. Life is fun, but at times will be a struggle. Things that a high schooler could do [academically] in the 1950's-1960's now [practically] requires a master's degree. Standards-inflation. And then we have the 'export'/ offshoring of all manufacturing by the capital class, the so-called job-creators.
5
I would recommend this comment twice if I could. If boomers have been so responsible, explain the national debt. What generation of workers is going to pay that down?
7
The national debt is still a small fraction of GDP, and inflation is low (except we need to fix healthcare/insurance). Do you have a mortgage? Isn't the total a large fraction of your yearly salary?
2
"It was the day after the mass shooting at a nightclub in Orlando, Fla., where the victims, as no one needed reminding, were about the same age as everyone in the room." Huh, where did that come from?
22
I'm a millennial and a graduate of St. John's College, and managed to be gainfully employed (and well-paid, at that). It was the finest education any young person could ask for. But I don't know if it would have been reasonable if my family hadn't been able to foot the bill. It increasingly appears the best college option is about price, not quality.
My generation is trapped in a cycle where good-paying jobs are eliminated by automation, four-year college degrees are basically mandatory for even the simplest white-collar work, student loans are overwhelming and so poorly organized that many fall into delinquency simply due to confusion among the collectors, and homeownership seems about as likely as an alien invasion. Fear and uncertainty may be nothing new, but I think the degree to which younger people experience it---and the accompanying lack of faith in their systems---deserves our attention.
My generation is trapped in a cycle where good-paying jobs are eliminated by automation, four-year college degrees are basically mandatory for even the simplest white-collar work, student loans are overwhelming and so poorly organized that many fall into delinquency simply due to confusion among the collectors, and homeownership seems about as likely as an alien invasion. Fear and uncertainty may be nothing new, but I think the degree to which younger people experience it---and the accompanying lack of faith in their systems---deserves our attention.
182
Could you not have found a millennial to write this? I'm a boomer, and it sounds condescending to me.
I remember when I was in college not worrying about whether I could buy a house after paying off my student loans - most likely I would be trying for a slot in the US lunar colony. Our student debt was lower and sights much higher. What is to aspire to now? Renting a self driving car to get cardboard sticks from IKEA between gigs? More Clinton, more debt, more wars, more gigs?
I remember when I was in college not worrying about whether I could buy a house after paying off my student loans - most likely I would be trying for a slot in the US lunar colony. Our student debt was lower and sights much higher. What is to aspire to now? Renting a self driving car to get cardboard sticks from IKEA between gigs? More Clinton, more debt, more wars, more gigs?
30
@Blue State - I believe Kirk Johnson is around 29 years old.
2
It was better for those of us who were coming of age in the 1950s and 1960s. Something changed after that and the social safety net, the supportive relationship between the company you worked for and yourself evaporated. It's not difficult to see why that happened and what we need to do to change that. Look at the conditions we were living under between WW2 and the 1980s then try to understand who and what happened. The story is out there on the Internet. The Democratic Party could have been the changed we needed but they sold out (thank you Bill and Hillary). Bernie Sanders has some of the answers, Dr. Jill Stein and her VP selection Ajamu Baraka also have some of the answers. More importantly we are the ones we've been waiting for. Look around and then get involved!
With increasing global population comes increasing competition. There are twice as many people on the planet, or more, than there were in those halcyon days of the 60s and 70s that commenters love to hark back to.
BILLIONS more mouths to feed, bodies to clothe, billions of gallons of fresh water consumed every single day, billions of pounds of meat and other food consumed each and every day, billions of more people who need a dwelling and a job. And reproducing so rapidly the WHO now estimates that three to five billion MORE humans will exist by the end of the century.
All of those who scoff at zero population growth, think about the world your kids and grandkids and great-grandchildren will inhabit. "Granny, what was an elephant? What was a bee?" If they can hear one another through the air-filtering face masks they will wear, while standing in line for their ration of potable H20.
Fulfilling careers are the least of the worries for the humans who will be here 100 years from now.
BILLIONS more mouths to feed, bodies to clothe, billions of gallons of fresh water consumed every single day, billions of pounds of meat and other food consumed each and every day, billions of more people who need a dwelling and a job. And reproducing so rapidly the WHO now estimates that three to five billion MORE humans will exist by the end of the century.
All of those who scoff at zero population growth, think about the world your kids and grandkids and great-grandchildren will inhabit. "Granny, what was an elephant? What was a bee?" If they can hear one another through the air-filtering face masks they will wear, while standing in line for their ration of potable H20.
Fulfilling careers are the least of the worries for the humans who will be here 100 years from now.
91
As a species, we are just not developed enough to consider population management. It is considered a human right to procreate. Most people feel it is the only mark they leave on this planet when they pass -- their genetic coding living on in the children. Do they ever stop and *really* consider the natural resources, never mind the income needs, of future generations? Absolutely not. They all want to experience 'the miracle of birth' and worry about the details later.
This is also a class issue. The more educated the parents, the better the opportunities of the offspring.
This is also a class issue. The more educated the parents, the better the opportunities of the offspring.
8
@ EbbieS
Worse is that we import 100,000 new immigrants every month (!), when unemployment claims are still high (230,000 last month). while millions of Americans have given up looking for job.
Both political parties are responsible for this debacle, but to even question the wisdom of continuing to flood the labor market with ever more labor is to be called a 'racist' and a 'xenophobe.'
Worse is that we import 100,000 new immigrants every month (!), when unemployment claims are still high (230,000 last month). while millions of Americans have given up looking for job.
Both political parties are responsible for this debacle, but to even question the wisdom of continuing to flood the labor market with ever more labor is to be called a 'racist' and a 'xenophobe.'
10
I wanted zero growth in 1960. Look where we are today. Nothing is sustainable. And people are suffering. It is a horrible situation. and it didn't need to be this way. It is the drive to exploit-- resources and people. Look at Trump. He is this exponentially.
2
Well done Mr. Johnson. This is the most accurate assessment of the current mood of many Americans I've seen. When an entire generation's world is dominated by debt and uncertainty it shouldn't be a surprise that they are fearful.
Because of constant change, careers in the tech industry are relatively short and notoriously bad for older workers. Automation is killing entire segments of employment. Up next, driverless vehicles, which will displace 10s of thousands of truck drivers.
Meanwhile, our society has tremendous unmet needs, like rebuilding inner cities, preparing for the consequences of climate change (like Louisiana and the ones to follow), cleaning the oceans, and getting a manned mission to Mars (OK, not so-so pressing, but we also need excitement). The challenge is to create an economic system that permits our society to focus on these urgent needs.
Because of constant change, careers in the tech industry are relatively short and notoriously bad for older workers. Automation is killing entire segments of employment. Up next, driverless vehicles, which will displace 10s of thousands of truck drivers.
Meanwhile, our society has tremendous unmet needs, like rebuilding inner cities, preparing for the consequences of climate change (like Louisiana and the ones to follow), cleaning the oceans, and getting a manned mission to Mars (OK, not so-so pressing, but we also need excitement). The challenge is to create an economic system that permits our society to focus on these urgent needs.
116
If I never hear another word about Mars, I'll be so happy. I want my lunar colony, even if I have to go there as a retirement home.
2
Gimme Shelter - How can our society focus on urgent needs such as poverty, health care, decent education for all, and jobs when over 50% of the national budget goes to "defense"?
1
Gainful employment for all will come when we recognize and accept the necessity for the mother of all infrastructure projects: relocating our coastal cities inland.
Nowhere in the article does it indicate how the obviously bright Ms. Boshart feels about her chosen career as a coder. Her enthusiasm for the wonderful world of burlesque suggests that working to make a smart phone smarter or an Amazon shopping cart more likely to be checked out by a thousandth of a percent will give her neither satisfaction nor fulfillment. In the end, being pleased with what you do remains as essential for a "successful" life as much as financial security.
11
Excellent comment.
1
It would help if we had less competition and higher wages for manual labor and manufacturing jobs.
But no. Apparently, we need to accommodate tens of millions of illegals, who are essentially an illegal oversupply in the labor pool. Supply and demand. What happens when you have this illegal oversupply? Simple - no living wages for lower-skill Americans.
But no. Apparently, we need to accommodate tens of millions of illegals, who are essentially an illegal oversupply in the labor pool. Supply and demand. What happens when you have this illegal oversupply? Simple - no living wages for lower-skill Americans.
15
Wait 'til they hire her to train her H1B replacement from India who will work for a lot less than $45,000.
9
Great change is more than cute memes on social networks and selfies at the cool rally. People have to give a lot of their own time and effort and not just wait for someone else to make things better. This means face to face interactions that Americans seem allergic to, these days.
5
If you take a broader approach, things are not so bad for American millennials. First, U.S. is one of the few advanced countries and economies that's still growing. This means that the pie is still expanding, something that can't be said of countries like UK, Germany, Italy, and Japan. Second, along with the growth, asset prices in the U.S. is still going up. While people trying to buy a house in Seattle and New York find this horrible and scary, the rising value is a huge driver of region's wealth and economic vitality. The alternative is places like Detroit (and much of Rust Belt) where real estate value and the tax base is on decline. It is far worse to have housing prices decline 25 percent than go up by 25 percent--think about the quality of life in neighborhoods where most homeowners are underwater (as is the case in parts of Las Vegas and non-coastal California). Homeownership doesn't mean very much when your house is worth 10 percent less every year. You can't complain by moving to San Francisco because of amazing job opportunities and then complain about rising housing prices--they are flip sides of the same coin. What gets left out in the housing crisis debate are the huge numbers of homeowners and apartment owners whose net assets are skyrocketing. This is the wealth that allows--with right policy mix and investment opportunities--create vibrant economies and strong social safety net. So, millennials need to make smart decisions with their eyes wide open.
3
Is it any wonder that young people, even the ones with opportunity, are gun shy of the future? We have made such a mess of this world that I would not want to be young again if it meant being in this era of total dysfunction. Our environment, our politics and our chance at a meaningful future have been squandered by greed, avarice and ignorance. Or leaders see the problems and do what is not in the world's or the country's best interests. After this season's behavior in the primaries on both sides, I see little hope in the future.
52
I am currently travelling in Thailand and India for seven weeks (living in the US) and I see this sort of a feeling everywhere:
http://www.theonion.com/article/i-cant-do-anymore-think-320-million-amer...
Brings to mind Harlan Ellison's short story "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream." Humans are tipping over the planetary boundaries and everyone can sense it. The next 100 years will either lead to human extinction (meaning zero humans alive) or humanity prospering, and the odds on the latter are very slim for a variety of reasons. So people have this sense of quiet desperation and want to get off this treadmill but they don't know how. Interestingly, the elite who are well off have the capability to do so but they they still follow their conditioning.
--Ram
http://www.theonion.com/article/i-cant-do-anymore-think-320-million-amer...
Brings to mind Harlan Ellison's short story "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream." Humans are tipping over the planetary boundaries and everyone can sense it. The next 100 years will either lead to human extinction (meaning zero humans alive) or humanity prospering, and the odds on the latter are very slim for a variety of reasons. So people have this sense of quiet desperation and want to get off this treadmill but they don't know how. Interestingly, the elite who are well off have the capability to do so but they they still follow their conditioning.
--Ram
32
The fact that you felt the need to have a definition of "human extinction" for millenial readers tells volumes.
5
Sorry, but at least for now, this is the only treadmill you will ever know.
Mark F. Arena: That's unclear: there are certainly other things that could come to a pass that could make the need for being a part of the rat race treadmill unnecessary (from complete societal collapse to ideas like UBI). And also there are ways to slow down or make the treadmill work for you instead of you working for everyone else. Not everyone can manage money wisely, but if each of these people won a lottery of $10 million (or even a million dollars after taxes) they could live comfortably the rest of their lives without ever worrying about a day job. But being satisfied with your first million and not wanting the second is the key here that lets you at least in essence get off the treadmill.
--Ram
--Ram
1
Over $70,000.00 in debt for a degree of dubious value in gaining meaningfull employment for an income sufficient to repay such debt. Where was the thoughtful planning for the future given the state of flux that has been the usual situation in this new global economy, so called. It appears that the days of meaningful employment being available for anyone seeking it after schooling are long gone. Imagine the days not too many centuries ago when many young folks emigrating to this country had to become indentured servants for five to seven years just to pay for their passage on the ship. They could not even leave the dock until their contract was made so that the ship captain received his money.
24
@WSF
Plenty of indentured servants still arrive in boats and planes daily.
Plenty of indentured servants still arrive in boats and planes daily.
4
The apple does not fall far from the tree.
If this woman's parents lost all the college savings they had been putting aside for her in the dot-com crash of the early 2000s, that only means they made bad investments, just as majoring in theater is a bad investment.
Is this somehow news to Millennials?
Perhaps a class in Finance 101 would help?
If this woman's parents lost all the college savings they had been putting aside for her in the dot-com crash of the early 2000s, that only means they made bad investments, just as majoring in theater is a bad investment.
Is this somehow news to Millennials?
Perhaps a class in Finance 101 would help?
2
I appreciate this genuine, and even sympathetic, portrait of these millennials. So often in our media, the very real struggle young Americans face is framed with dismissive cynicism.
What I see here, are people who are doing what they can to create stability for themselves in an ever-shifting tide of opportunities, pitfalls, struggle, and clarity. I am 36 years old, and I share many of the opinions and outlook of the women profiled here. We are highly interconnected technologically, but also know that the economic stability and opportunity our parents enjoyed at our age has been systematically dismantled and sold off to benefit a very few. We live in a country dictated by the greed of those few, with incredible income inequality, and an exploding cost of living.
We are then left to cobble together a livelihood, through education, part-time jobs, gig work, and the like. Our media, and clueless and indifferent political leaders, might find the "sharing economy" cute, and an opportunity to show gumption, but it is actually terrifying and precarious. And I haven't even touched on the atrocious healthcare system in our country, and overwhelming student debt load most of us carry.
Millennials are highly motivated, educated, hard working, and open minded. We are trying. Yet, we're being blamed as "lazy" and "entitled"? That, I don't understand. I hope this article opens a few eyes. This is the world we have inherited. Snark and condescension won't fix it.
What I see here, are people who are doing what they can to create stability for themselves in an ever-shifting tide of opportunities, pitfalls, struggle, and clarity. I am 36 years old, and I share many of the opinions and outlook of the women profiled here. We are highly interconnected technologically, but also know that the economic stability and opportunity our parents enjoyed at our age has been systematically dismantled and sold off to benefit a very few. We live in a country dictated by the greed of those few, with incredible income inequality, and an exploding cost of living.
We are then left to cobble together a livelihood, through education, part-time jobs, gig work, and the like. Our media, and clueless and indifferent political leaders, might find the "sharing economy" cute, and an opportunity to show gumption, but it is actually terrifying and precarious. And I haven't even touched on the atrocious healthcare system in our country, and overwhelming student debt load most of us carry.
Millennials are highly motivated, educated, hard working, and open minded. We are trying. Yet, we're being blamed as "lazy" and "entitled"? That, I don't understand. I hope this article opens a few eyes. This is the world we have inherited. Snark and condescension won't fix it.
346
The same things were said about the Baby Boomers: we were lazy, selfish and entitled. I think every generation recycles the criticisms leveled at them downward. What I feel bad about is how hard it's become for most young adults today. In the 80s many of us did graduate debt free from college and that summer job paid enough to cover our expenses. It was worth going to college then.
The other thing was that we didn't have a gig economy. That, and companies freedom to keep people on as temps makes feeling secure enough to make major economic commitments like buying a car, a home, or having a child really tough. My one hope is that we've learned that trickle down economics doesn't work. However, given the fact that we have a Trump running for president, I'm not too sure. In the meantime Dominic, keep on trying.
The other thing was that we didn't have a gig economy. That, and companies freedom to keep people on as temps makes feeling secure enough to make major economic commitments like buying a car, a home, or having a child really tough. My one hope is that we've learned that trickle down economics doesn't work. However, given the fact that we have a Trump running for president, I'm not too sure. In the meantime Dominic, keep on trying.
61
Please. When in college I pined to live in NYC, but I couldn't, it was too expensive, but I didn't complain, I moved to Jersey and took the bus. But millenials, nooooooooooooo. They complain about the high cost of stuff while holding their $600 phone and paying $100 a month to be connected.
12
Thank you for your kind words. I definitely agree with you. I don't think it's ever been "easy" as I know for a fact my parents have worked very hard for what they've had, as have all of the Boomers I know as well. But things were a little more flexible, companies were more invested in their workers, and how I wish I had my father's insurance benefits from that time!
8
Too many monkeys, not enough bananas.
That's our ultimate problem, apparently.
My solution?
Make the retirement age 40.
then there will be plenty of bananas.
That's our ultimate problem, apparently.
My solution?
Make the retirement age 40.
then there will be plenty of bananas.
14
How about a four day work week and two months off per year. Work 'till your dead!
5
When has there ever been a time that anxiety about the future has not been a part of everyday life? Ms. Boshart is not unique in her uncertainty. I am 64 years old, and that uncertainty has been a part of my life, and my friend's lives, for as long as I can remember. Only the very rich can feel complacent. I lost my job in 2015, but I struggle along with part-time jobs, making ends meet somehow, just like Ms. Boshart and millions of others. My parents did, their parents did, and so on down the line. Millennials needn't feel that they are somehow special. We all have it tough. Nothing is handed to you. All you can do is pull up your panties, put one foot in front of the other and keep going. I've lived through all kinds of political movements, Democratic and Republican administrations, social changes--and none of it has ever made a difference in my life. That only happens in the movies.
My unsolicited advice for today's young people? Give up the unreasonable expectation that you are entitled to anything-not a living, not a place to live, not even happiness. Everything you get in life comes because you make it happen. If you don't try, you don't get. And, whatever you do, don't begin to see yourself as a victim, because then you're doomed to become one. The minute the self-pity kicks in, it's over.
My unsolicited advice for today's young people? Give up the unreasonable expectation that you are entitled to anything-not a living, not a place to live, not even happiness. Everything you get in life comes because you make it happen. If you don't try, you don't get. And, whatever you do, don't begin to see yourself as a victim, because then you're doomed to become one. The minute the self-pity kicks in, it's over.
333
Ah, to live in an age with a socioeconomic structure that actually rewarded hard work! It must have been grand.
You know what else also happens only in the movies? Making amazing things happen merely by the force of your own will. This is an adolescent myth that you--and everyone around you--need to leave behind immediately. Because beneath every successful person is a network of support. One can simultaneously strive for greatness and advocate for a social structure that allows such greatness to be remunerated.
You know what else also happens only in the movies? Making amazing things happen merely by the force of your own will. This is an adolescent myth that you--and everyone around you--need to leave behind immediately. Because beneath every successful person is a network of support. One can simultaneously strive for greatness and advocate for a social structure that allows such greatness to be remunerated.
17
I'm a decade older than this commentor and I don't agree with her. Yes. "Everything you get in life comes because you make it happen. If you don't try, you don't get." That has always been true.
But the biggest difference between my generation and hers, and today's generation starting out is that we had the opportunity to try.
Today opportunity is limited at best, gone for most.
Entry level jobs in the field of choice? not available unless your connected.
Internships with the opportunity to become an employee? no longer paid so only the fincially secure can afford to take them. High tech jobs for the well educated? Maybe until you're training your H1-B visa replacement.
It was American opportunitythat buoyed up the early 20th century immigrants even as they toiled and died in places like coal mines.
It was American opportunity that allowed mid 20th century factory workers to own homes and send kids to college.
It was American opportunity that allowed late a couple of late 20th century young men in a garage to start the company that is now the biggest in the world.
Now, the loss of opportunity so had been experienced by family generations makes the young distrustful and anxious for their futures and the old angry that their government has allowed this loss to happen.
But the biggest difference between my generation and hers, and today's generation starting out is that we had the opportunity to try.
Today opportunity is limited at best, gone for most.
Entry level jobs in the field of choice? not available unless your connected.
Internships with the opportunity to become an employee? no longer paid so only the fincially secure can afford to take them. High tech jobs for the well educated? Maybe until you're training your H1-B visa replacement.
It was American opportunitythat buoyed up the early 20th century immigrants even as they toiled and died in places like coal mines.
It was American opportunity that allowed mid 20th century factory workers to own homes and send kids to college.
It was American opportunity that allowed late a couple of late 20th century young men in a garage to start the company that is now the biggest in the world.
Now, the loss of opportunity so had been experienced by family generations makes the young distrustful and anxious for their futures and the old angry that their government has allowed this loss to happen.
19
"Democratic and Republican administrations, social changes--and none of it has ever made a difference in my life. That only happens in the movies. "
I bet next year when you're 65 you'll see the difference - Social Security. And if the Republicans had prevailed, you wouldn't have that.
I bet next year when you're 65 you'll see the difference - Social Security. And if the Republicans had prevailed, you wouldn't have that.
9
Welcome too the new normal. The "Good ol' Days" of American economic dominance were built on the spoils of World War II, which have largely subsided as other nations have been rebuilt. When you're the only industrialized nation on earth that was not completely leveled to the ground, you're bound to have some advantages.
Life is competitive now. We have to make smart decisions and go out there and earn our share. Most importantly, Millennials like myself need to realize that at the end of the day, nobody is going to help us but ourselves. Not Hillary Clinton, not Donald Trump, not even Bernie Sanders. Each individual has a responsibility to take care of himself or herself. Yes, government may prevent us from starving in the streets (hopefully), but I think we all want more out of life than that. Lets go earn it.
Life is competitive now. We have to make smart decisions and go out there and earn our share. Most importantly, Millennials like myself need to realize that at the end of the day, nobody is going to help us but ourselves. Not Hillary Clinton, not Donald Trump, not even Bernie Sanders. Each individual has a responsibility to take care of himself or herself. Yes, government may prevent us from starving in the streets (hopefully), but I think we all want more out of life than that. Lets go earn it.
39
life is competitive now?
1
"Millennials like myself need to realize that at the end of the day, nobody is going to help us but ourselves. Not Hillary Clinton, not Donald Trump, not even Bernie Sanders."
Well maybe Bernie Sanders a little bit. In any case, as another commenter, Harry, says: Never vote R.
Well maybe Bernie Sanders a little bit. In any case, as another commenter, Harry, says: Never vote R.
The good news is that, since they live in Seattle, they'll be entitled to a $15/hour minimum wage once they do actually find a job.
21
yep wait until they give over 10 million people amnesty . and the workforce is flooded with workers. it will wipe out the middle class. sure not the few that are lucky enough to land the temporary job at company. but the vast majority .
by no means am i insulting illegal aliens. most do want a better life. I would do the same thing if I lived in country that didnt give a sht about them.
but why be so proud of their govenrment.
by no means am i insulting illegal aliens. most do want a better life. I would do the same thing if I lived in country that didnt give a sht about them.
but why be so proud of their govenrment.
10
Lovely article.....but high on anecdotes snd short on facts. This doesn't resemble the Seattle I know so the factual context might have been grounding for me. Otherwise not sure what to do with this information.
5
Hopefully ADA will reach out to women in high school (I infer that they don't). I am sure at least some will have the maturity to get credentials in fields that pay a living salary, not just what seems cool or fun.
1
Actually, it would be nice if Ada reached out to women over 40, as we are equally capable of learning new technology and have a couple more decades of career life ahead of us. It's hard for me to feel anxious for a 30 y.o. who was accepted into Ada. All of the code schools (and numerous tech jobs, for that matter) I've applied to have a sign on the door that reads "No Boomers Allowed."
17
Shouldn't *any field* pay a living wage? And I mean a living wage, not millions of dollars so one can become one of the 1%, but simply a living wage, so they can feel secure and comfortable in a decent life.
I see several posts from people criticizing the choice of some young people for taking up "impractical" courses of study like drama or philosophy. So what should America be, simply a nation of tradesmen and women, taking in nothing but vocational skills from our higher education?
Our arts are some of our greatest exports, from movies, to music, and even video games. Look at the excellence on display in Rio. Most of those young people (other than the NBA millionaires who feel no compunction about segregating themselves aboard their own private cruise ship) have pursued careers that are not lucrative or likely to result in steady, reliable work. I wonder how much money has been expended by a gymnast (and his or her family) or a fencer to get them to the Olympics. $70,000? Likely many times that.
If America stands for anything, it should be the freedom to pursue those life goals, practical or not, and to be assured that you will be valued and celebrated, regardless of what your chosen path might be.
I see several posts from people criticizing the choice of some young people for taking up "impractical" courses of study like drama or philosophy. So what should America be, simply a nation of tradesmen and women, taking in nothing but vocational skills from our higher education?
Our arts are some of our greatest exports, from movies, to music, and even video games. Look at the excellence on display in Rio. Most of those young people (other than the NBA millionaires who feel no compunction about segregating themselves aboard their own private cruise ship) have pursued careers that are not lucrative or likely to result in steady, reliable work. I wonder how much money has been expended by a gymnast (and his or her family) or a fencer to get them to the Olympics. $70,000? Likely many times that.
If America stands for anything, it should be the freedom to pursue those life goals, practical or not, and to be assured that you will be valued and celebrated, regardless of what your chosen path might be.
12
Plenty of artists make money. The good ones.
these kids, though, have been raised to not keep score in their sporting events, receive "participation" trophies, etc. And that's great for self esteem. No argument there. But does that prepare them for their first job where their boss will not reward them for merely "participating"?
And we are free to pursue impractical life goals. But employers are also free not to pay us for pursuing these impractical goals.
You pearl clutching idealists crack me up.
these kids, though, have been raised to not keep score in their sporting events, receive "participation" trophies, etc. And that's great for self esteem. No argument there. But does that prepare them for their first job where their boss will not reward them for merely "participating"?
And we are free to pursue impractical life goals. But employers are also free not to pay us for pursuing these impractical goals.
You pearl clutching idealists crack me up.
"My mother got stage fright for me."
We can't save other people from the pressures of life. Sure the job market is more volatile, and sure traditional communalism is on the decline, but the future will come, and you've got a great start, and you've got opportunities galore to make connections with others in new ways. Put your head up and be happy!
We can't save other people from the pressures of life. Sure the job market is more volatile, and sure traditional communalism is on the decline, but the future will come, and you've got a great start, and you've got opportunities galore to make connections with others in new ways. Put your head up and be happy!
1
As a counterweight to the story of Seattle and, really, any large city in the U.S., I recommend viewing Michael Moore's "Where to Invade Next" to get a good sampling of what we might learn from certain European countries. Not all out socialism. Not a nanny society. Just some adjustments that work to the advantage of working parents and students, which can then lead to a more rational socio-economic existence and a more satisfying life in the US of A. And the capper: Most of these European "innovations" actually were practices that originated in the United States decades ago. Practices they adopted and we abandoned.
139
May I second that Michael's Moore's film WHERE TO INVADE NEXT. Must see, very enlightening view on how other societies handle the same problems, but better. More efficient, healthier, life improving. I've also been meeting a lot of European folks through the internet lately (I'm USA) and its really been driving home the point that we are really at a point where we need to decide what kind of society we want to be in, live in, work in, love in. What do we want our civilization to be? Even though I was aware of certain things, the way he presents it is extremely well done and ultimately very hopeful. Moore has a true passion for the betterment of society, from his very first film, Roger and Me. This film, it demonstrates what's possible. We must keep trying to make our country better.
1
There is a sadness to these stories. The common thread is fear and a demand for certainty. The parents of millennials had fears, baby boomers had fears, the men and women who went off to war had fears. But they also believed in themselves, had a spirit of making the best of things, and had some internal fortitude. Parents get laid off, people 3,000 miles away from you get bombed in terror attacks. You learn to believe in yourself and you don;t look for validation from others or from a career. It's called growing up
34
College has become an expensive 4 year summer camp. Was it worth it to load up on $72k of debt to study philosophy at St. Johns? For what? Here's a tip on how to save $72k. Download the reading list for those philosophy classes and pick up the books for free at your public library.
97
Amen. If my parents or anyone was going to spend $72K.. perhaps the degree should have been in computer science (programming, coding) or engineering? Getting a degree in a field where graduates are in demand would make more sense. College can be out of reach for many families these days. There are jobs out there that don't require college.. plumbers, mechanics, etc. It might be dirty and not all that desirable, but they do pay wages well in excess of $15/hr.
5
My neighbor has been a successful small business owner for almost ten years. His first hire? A philosophy major who, at the time, was obtaining formal training by those who had passed the necessary standards to be expert. For my neighbor, anyone with a high school diploma can manage debit and credit columns and be nice to customers. But he believed someone studying philosophy would have the vision he was looking for; someone who could think and act reflectively based on knowledge about the human condition, and help steer the business accordingly. The key phrase here is the same as the outcome: “…successful small business owner for almost ten years.”
Besides, public libraries typically don’t carry philosophy books, or, at least, they don’t have much of a variety of such. Conversely, collections in academic libraries are exactly that: academic. Additionally, academic collections, by and large, are funded with tuition and fees, and, as such, are only available to their relevant university or college campuses. It is access to empirical knowledge for which students are paying.
Finally, how does one prove title to a knowledge base? By a record of which books were checked out from a library? Of course not. Academic degrees acknowledge that their holders passed rigorous standards, and is a way for employers to assess, among other things, interests and skills of potential employers.
Why is it so difficult for you to figure out these things?
Besides, public libraries typically don’t carry philosophy books, or, at least, they don’t have much of a variety of such. Conversely, collections in academic libraries are exactly that: academic. Additionally, academic collections, by and large, are funded with tuition and fees, and, as such, are only available to their relevant university or college campuses. It is access to empirical knowledge for which students are paying.
Finally, how does one prove title to a knowledge base? By a record of which books were checked out from a library? Of course not. Academic degrees acknowledge that their holders passed rigorous standards, and is a way for employers to assess, among other things, interests and skills of potential employers.
Why is it so difficult for you to figure out these things?
11
Why are you interviewing a bunch of hipsters who initially chose college degrees that wouldn't be lucrative. Obviously if you choose to major in 'musical theater' your chances of financial stability are decreased. That was their decision to make.
I am technically a millennial. I like in NYC. And I do not live frozen in fear, burdened by terrorism and the political system. That's no way to live and certainly no way to effect change.
I am technically a millennial. I like in NYC. And I do not live frozen in fear, burdened by terrorism and the political system. That's no way to live and certainly no way to effect change.
41
Even law-school graduates are struggling to find work and chip away at debt. There are no guarantees. A society full of people who are trained as opposed to educated would be sadly circumscribed. Case in point: acclaimed author and millionaire Michael Lewis was...an art history major.
https://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S33/87/54K53/
https://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S33/87/54K53/
8
They are all correct in their views. There are very few reasons to be optimistic about the future -- in this country or any other. When the young lose their hope, societies wither and die. Since the US is really run by corporations (not politicians), here's three simple steps the 1% can take to change things:
1. Hire young people and subsidize their technical training. Stop seeking H1Bs to answer all your needs.
2. Teach more life skills at the high school level. Personal income, investments, loans, interest rates, academic majors that pay a decent living wage, etc.
3. Raise wages, which have been flat for more than 30 years.
1. Hire young people and subsidize their technical training. Stop seeking H1Bs to answer all your needs.
2. Teach more life skills at the high school level. Personal income, investments, loans, interest rates, academic majors that pay a decent living wage, etc.
3. Raise wages, which have been flat for more than 30 years.
169
Here are three things young people can do:
1. Stop taking useless party degrees over an average of 5 years of college at $30K a year - go to a state college and get a technical education and become employable.
2. Get your parents to teach you a modicum of life skills and absorb them - start with life lesson number one - there is no money tree either in your parent's backyard or in Washington
3. You can raise wages any ol' time you like - start your own business - take a risk - bank on yourself - and quit yer whining.
1. Stop taking useless party degrees over an average of 5 years of college at $30K a year - go to a state college and get a technical education and become employable.
2. Get your parents to teach you a modicum of life skills and absorb them - start with life lesson number one - there is no money tree either in your parent's backyard or in Washington
3. You can raise wages any ol' time you like - start your own business - take a risk - bank on yourself - and quit yer whining.
21
"3. You can raise wages any ol' time you like - start your own business - take a risk - bank on yourself - and quit yer whining."
Right answer. I did just that 45 years ago, never looked back. Opportunity is everywhere for the privileged and we're them (Thanks, Pogo).
Right answer. I did just that 45 years ago, never looked back. Opportunity is everywhere for the privileged and we're them (Thanks, Pogo).
3
Wages will not rise as long as there is an oversupply of workers via immigration and neither party will slow immigration because their corporate donors demand they keep wages low.
Next idea?
Next idea?
4
Coding is not for everyone.
118
They are right to be scared. While having won a huge lottery prize in gaining admission to this free program, that single prize will be an ephemeral, short-lived spike of good fortune for many of them. They should save every dollar they make should they end up getting a well-paying job upon graduating. Once they are in the tech field proper, they will be treated badly, see no career growth, be hounded and sabotaged by male peers and superiors, have their work discounted, and be able to stay in this field only by being willing stay stressed and miserable.
On the other hand, if they CAN stay under those terms, as I have for 25 years, it is worth the financial security -- being financially unsafe is worse than this ugly alternative.
On the other hand, if they CAN stay under those terms, as I have for 25 years, it is worth the financial security -- being financially unsafe is worse than this ugly alternative.
25
How is this any different from other high pressure but high paying careers, like management consulting (my former career), finance or law? Being treated poorly was always part of the equation but tolerated because the jobs paid very well.
A generation that doesn't expect to work in disagreeable jobs to earn a living is going to have a rough time. As employees, their value is in how well they can please others, especially employers. Their own happiness is not of paramount importance. That may come as a surprise.
A generation that doesn't expect to work in disagreeable jobs to earn a living is going to have a rough time. As employees, their value is in how well they can please others, especially employers. Their own happiness is not of paramount importance. That may come as a surprise.
1
It has always been scary to be that age (early 20s), unless one's daddy was rich and one's mama was good looking. There were famines, droughts, floods, wars, debt (of one kind or another) since times immemorial that impacted the young more than anyone else.
Generalization is ill advised, many segments of Millennials are downright amazing. But some things are undeniably not anecdotal. They may be the first generation to take on $50-100K loans to complete a degrees in what essentially ought to be hobbies of the rich only (e.g., social work, art history, English lit, or women's studies). Few generations prior were this tethered to adults (parents), and this dependent on parents (or adults) for solving their local problems. I often wonder whether my own children think they are in a sitcom or an evening television drama (which I know they are watching on their tablets). Too many things are trivialized to a laugh, every problem must be solved at the end of the hour - with tears and hugs.
Strangely, global thinking has produced local nonsense and paralysis. "Please take the garbage out," produces a lecture from my post-teen about global warming and pollution. Why must s/he work on organic chem, when people are starving in Africa - s/he wants to know.
I think it best that Millennials are left to solve their own problems. Adult intervention is producing dependence, which is the biggest social disease in a country that is otherwise rich beyond measure.
Kalidan
Generalization is ill advised, many segments of Millennials are downright amazing. But some things are undeniably not anecdotal. They may be the first generation to take on $50-100K loans to complete a degrees in what essentially ought to be hobbies of the rich only (e.g., social work, art history, English lit, or women's studies). Few generations prior were this tethered to adults (parents), and this dependent on parents (or adults) for solving their local problems. I often wonder whether my own children think they are in a sitcom or an evening television drama (which I know they are watching on their tablets). Too many things are trivialized to a laugh, every problem must be solved at the end of the hour - with tears and hugs.
Strangely, global thinking has produced local nonsense and paralysis. "Please take the garbage out," produces a lecture from my post-teen about global warming and pollution. Why must s/he work on organic chem, when people are starving in Africa - s/he wants to know.
I think it best that Millennials are left to solve their own problems. Adult intervention is producing dependence, which is the biggest social disease in a country that is otherwise rich beyond measure.
Kalidan
44
Social work is hardly a hobby of the rich, much as you might wish for a sense of noblesse oblige among them.
17
Agreed.
It is astounding the amount of money Millennials borrow for useless degrees, as if the phrase 'starving artist' has not been around for hundreds of years, as if that cannot apply to them, because they are so very special.
It is astounding the amount of money Millennials borrow for useless degrees, as if the phrase 'starving artist' has not been around for hundreds of years, as if that cannot apply to them, because they are so very special.
3
With regard to so-called useless degrees.
A proper philosophy course teaches, among other skills, reasoning, argumentation, and formal logic, as well as stretching into the disciplines of world history and both the arts and sciences. It teaches you how to think, not what to think.
A proper education in English teaches you how to communicate clearly. Ideally you should emerge with a large vocabulary, a grasp of grammar and syntax, and at least some background in literature; see infra.
A proper education in literature teaches you flexibility of perception, walking in others' shoes, the subtlety of language and narrative to convey not only obvious meaning but connotations and implications. Absolutely essential, I think, in a global environment where the employee will interact with colleagues and customers of many cultures and backgrounds.
That's one heck of a skill set. And it will still come in handy long after whatever programming language you learned in this boot camp is just about as practically useful as hieroglyphics, if not just about as comprehensible as Linear A. (For STEM majors: We have never succeeded in deciphering Linear A, a form of writing used by the Minoans approx. 4000 years ago.)
A proper philosophy course teaches, among other skills, reasoning, argumentation, and formal logic, as well as stretching into the disciplines of world history and both the arts and sciences. It teaches you how to think, not what to think.
A proper education in English teaches you how to communicate clearly. Ideally you should emerge with a large vocabulary, a grasp of grammar and syntax, and at least some background in literature; see infra.
A proper education in literature teaches you flexibility of perception, walking in others' shoes, the subtlety of language and narrative to convey not only obvious meaning but connotations and implications. Absolutely essential, I think, in a global environment where the employee will interact with colleagues and customers of many cultures and backgrounds.
That's one heck of a skill set. And it will still come in handy long after whatever programming language you learned in this boot camp is just about as practically useful as hieroglyphics, if not just about as comprehensible as Linear A. (For STEM majors: We have never succeeded in deciphering Linear A, a form of writing used by the Minoans approx. 4000 years ago.)
3
Why do people continue to express concern about Social Security's future when reasonable people, and children, would suggest to merely raise the cap?
126
Who cares about Social Security? I'm 28 and don't expect to ever be able to retire. Almost everyone I know who's in my age group at least don't expect it to be there and many of us expect to have to work for the rest of our lives.
5
The scare mongers out there are not just Republicans. I expect Clinton to cut benefits before raising the salary cap. One of the many trust issues I have with her.
7
Don't let them scare/fool you!! SS will be there...WE JUST NEED TO INCREASE THE SALARY CAP!
3
In presenting this parade of horrors, the NYTimes is 'this close' to saying what most young people are thinking: capitalism has failed them. Look at the polls. Most people under 30 advocate a form of socialism. I imagine some of them mean "redistribution"--mere Keynesian leveling. But some people--like Seattle's own Kshama Sawant--advocate for actual socialism, which is the worker control of businesses.
What if a few enterprising millenials decided to follow that model, spreading the reward and the risk to all employees? What if the whole tech-industry--which has been heavily dominated by Zarathustrian compu-evangelists with zero sense of history--suddenly realized that this model could actually make them more productive? Then, workers might be directly invested in the success of the company, instead of waiting to jump ship when the next opportunity arose. What if this model became the new version of hard-nosed American common sense, wherein working men and women had a direct say in the outcome of their labor?
In a time of constant nightmares, dreams like these should strike us as a plausible reality.
What if a few enterprising millenials decided to follow that model, spreading the reward and the risk to all employees? What if the whole tech-industry--which has been heavily dominated by Zarathustrian compu-evangelists with zero sense of history--suddenly realized that this model could actually make them more productive? Then, workers might be directly invested in the success of the company, instead of waiting to jump ship when the next opportunity arose. What if this model became the new version of hard-nosed American common sense, wherein working men and women had a direct say in the outcome of their labor?
In a time of constant nightmares, dreams like these should strike us as a plausible reality.
30
The idea of workers sharing ownership and profits in an enterprise is not a dream.It has been implemented many times by both large and small businesses with great success...i.e.(4/27/16 NYT Chobani windfall for employees) .....unfortunately this economic ideaology is not reported or supported enough by the media or public .This is one of many potential building blocks for a grassroots movement in participatory economics and democracy,which lead to REAL poltiical change.Read the DieM 25 democracy movement manifesto and start to work for the change you want!
If they don't want debt, how are they going to save enough to buy a home? Perhaps there simply will be no homeownership or some alternative form of it. Or rentals.
There seem to be so many fears and big ones. Living in fear of global warming is irrational. Something is missing in their thinking. Boundaries? Coping skills? Teaching them to respect the planet has just left them anxious about it. Educators should reassess what they're doing to young people. Idealism is fine but not when it becomes something to which they can only aspire but never achieve.
There seem to be so many fears and big ones. Living in fear of global warming is irrational. Something is missing in their thinking. Boundaries? Coping skills? Teaching them to respect the planet has just left them anxious about it. Educators should reassess what they're doing to young people. Idealism is fine but not when it becomes something to which they can only aspire but never achieve.
5
Well, Ms. Boshart has learned something from Sondheim University:
ya got to have a gimmick.
ya got to have a gimmick.
4
I'm a guy in my early 30s and I went through the same useless degree -> tech school -> nice job transition a few years ago. It's a lot of work, but I was always hopeful for it to turn my life around...and it did.
I'm very worried about what will happen to blue collar jobs - the tradespeople, truck drivers, nursing assistants etc, once automation really kicks in. Not everyone can afford to go to a code school to retrain, nor does everyone have the desire or critical thinking skills to do well at one. Why is it impossible for the working class to continue to exist in America at any level other than a complete struggle?
The only people I know in my age range who are doing well are those who got STEM degrees, hustled to learn some techy skillset like in this article, or were born into money. Something is obviously broken and I don't see anyone at the top trying to fix it.
I'm very worried about what will happen to blue collar jobs - the tradespeople, truck drivers, nursing assistants etc, once automation really kicks in. Not everyone can afford to go to a code school to retrain, nor does everyone have the desire or critical thinking skills to do well at one. Why is it impossible for the working class to continue to exist in America at any level other than a complete struggle?
The only people I know in my age range who are doing well are those who got STEM degrees, hustled to learn some techy skillset like in this article, or were born into money. Something is obviously broken and I don't see anyone at the top trying to fix it.
196
What is broken is that so many young people get useless expensive degrees, borrowing money not only for tuition at private colleges, but for living expenses and cars and vacations overseas.
No one did that 30-40 years ago, as college was seen as the road to a good job, not an 'experience'.
Unless Millennials actually think that all those immigrants in the STEM fields really really love engineering?
No one did that 30-40 years ago, as college was seen as the road to a good job, not an 'experience'.
Unless Millennials actually think that all those immigrants in the STEM fields really really love engineering?
3
FSM lives, STEM will not save you. Any degree is 'useless' in an overcrowded field, particularly one that can be done overseas. These millennials in Seattle will always be cheaped out of the market, because employers want to pay Mumbai or Shanghai wages, but they have Seattle cost of living, and you can't get by on Mumbai wages in Seattle (or pretty much anywhere in the US). Moreover, STEM is less subject to language barriers than the humanities and so-called soft sciences; 2 + 2 = 4 in all languages. And the rest of the world has a jump on us, because they don't have to learn the metric system as a 'second language'.
The rest, I don't know if I agree with entirely; some people live completely skint to acquire an education, work part-time, etc. while other students are indeed as you describe, using college as a four-year extension of an entitled, privileged adolescence.
The rest, I don't know if I agree with entirely; some people live completely skint to acquire an education, work part-time, etc. while other students are indeed as you describe, using college as a four-year extension of an entitled, privileged adolescence.
10
Gee, this describes my life in my twenties and thirties and I'm not a Millennial. I was born in the late 1950s and came of age in the 80s with Saint Ronnie. I remember the gas shortages in the 70s, the stagflation, the lack of jobs, the increases in the cost of living, the lack of affordable housing, and other trends that have not stopped. What's happening to America started back in the 80s. Why not write articles about how at least two generations of Americans are suffering for the lack of political will to improve things for the 99%?
332
While Saint Ronnie certainly altered the trajectory of the nation in the '80's, it was not to the benefit of the 99%. Some day that story will be told...
It will be dark days indeed if Seattle, stuffed with wealth, forces the non-techies—those who serve the techies at stores, clean their houses and their toilets, cook their food, pick up their trash—to the edges of town in dark hovels. Because the top won't pay us what we, who aid them, are owed.
Very dark days. No, they're here now.
Very dark days. No, they're here now.
48
I am of the same generation: we could afford the new artisanal coffees, but we struggled to afford a house. Being at the tail end of the baby boomers, the modestly priced housing was already taken up, along with most jobs appropriate for a liberal arts grad. All the new jobs seemed to be in finance and business.
What about the people who aren't suited for tech. jobs or the business grind? There are jobs for them, but they barely pay a living wage. Jobs in the arts, education, taking care of seniors, children, and people with special needs, community work, social services etc.--they are all jobs that are just as critical as tech jobs for a successful and healthy economy.----we need to start appreciating and rewarding these jobs accordingly.
What about the people who aren't suited for tech. jobs or the business grind? There are jobs for them, but they barely pay a living wage. Jobs in the arts, education, taking care of seniors, children, and people with special needs, community work, social services etc.--they are all jobs that are just as critical as tech jobs for a successful and healthy economy.----we need to start appreciating and rewarding these jobs accordingly.
13
What to do?
Organises politically and industrially as a class to establish common ownership and democratic control over the collective product of labour. Abolish the wage system and set up a system where the wealth we collectively produce is distributed on the basis of need, not sold to profit the capitalist class.