I am one of those snot nosed gen y-ers (age 29) that took a job from an older person. You know why? She spent most of the time hanging out, barely working, and refused to learn how to update the website and social media pages when the ED asked her to take on that responsibility. She felt entitled to her job and stopped growing and pushing herself to learn additional skills. I'm in no way implying that she was representative of all working boomers, but I feel the need to point out that no matter how old you are, complacency and stalled growth is job suicide. I have no expectation of retirement programs or pensions existing thirty years from now, and that means I'll have to grow and adapt as the economy shifts and generation z enters the workforce. Stop whining, take on some student loan debt like the rest of us and make yourself competitive again. Or use your experience to start your own business. No matter your age, no one owes you a job unless you are qualified for it and continuously make yourself invaluable.
1
And you consider that your personal experience can be generalized to the entire older workforce? Nice stereotyping. Plenty of older people maintain their skills; the problem is we have experience and expect to be paid for it - our economy refuses to acknowledge the value of the very experience and skill they demand. Consider that it's entirely possible you were hired to replace an older worker because they didn't have to pay you as much - because cutting costs was, to them, worth eliminating experience and expertise and bringing in a n00b. Money is always the bottom line.
5
The basic reality is that the U.S. has no economic policy that is worth a hill of beans.
There are so many distortions in the U.S. labor market.
(1) Employers carry the cost of the ridiculously high cost of healthcare in this country. In other countries, the insurance is national and the risk is spread across the entire population.
(2) Too much of the economy is dependent on the musings of Corporate America. So many needs in the country from infrastructure to healthcare to training is simply not addressed. The problem is NOT that there is not enough money or that there is no demand. The problem is that these needs are simply not being addressed because corporations refuse to make it work if the ROI is below 15% or if the timeline required to build out is more than 5 years.
(3) The U.S. is rudderless. It has no cohesion to accomplish big things. It is obvious that the U.S. cannot remain a carbon-based economy forever but it puts minimal effort to push forth the transition. Whatever efforts exist are inconsistent, too small and do not last. The same goes for reforming its healthcare system. Or, dealing with the cost of education and job retraining. The U.S. simply has no direction. Politicians say things but there is no money or policy behind them.
(4) There are too many pet projects for the wealthy. There are just so many examples of waste in the news every day that I have stopped counting. This is where the money really goes in the U.S.
There are so many distortions in the U.S. labor market.
(1) Employers carry the cost of the ridiculously high cost of healthcare in this country. In other countries, the insurance is national and the risk is spread across the entire population.
(2) Too much of the economy is dependent on the musings of Corporate America. So many needs in the country from infrastructure to healthcare to training is simply not addressed. The problem is NOT that there is not enough money or that there is no demand. The problem is that these needs are simply not being addressed because corporations refuse to make it work if the ROI is below 15% or if the timeline required to build out is more than 5 years.
(3) The U.S. is rudderless. It has no cohesion to accomplish big things. It is obvious that the U.S. cannot remain a carbon-based economy forever but it puts minimal effort to push forth the transition. Whatever efforts exist are inconsistent, too small and do not last. The same goes for reforming its healthcare system. Or, dealing with the cost of education and job retraining. The U.S. simply has no direction. Politicians say things but there is no money or policy behind them.
(4) There are too many pet projects for the wealthy. There are just so many examples of waste in the news every day that I have stopped counting. This is where the money really goes in the U.S.
10
They have to keep us oldie but goodies around, were the only ones who can read cursive...lol
1
It needs to be made abundantly clear that older people are working because the system requires them to do so, despite the fact that the jobs on offer/available will be low paying. Full social security benefits don't kick in until most people will have been forced out of the work place due to age discrimination and Americans no longer have any pension at all. The 40 year olds are the ones who should be scared to death. They have no social security, no pension AND no savings. They are often still relying on their parents for help of all sorts (free day care, etc) that they couldn't otherwise buy. We need to continue to rethink these issues and offer policy responses/alternatives with creative angles.
5
Thanks to the NYT for shedding light on this issue.
Interested that many commentators are amazed that age discrimination exists. As a long term unemployed 48 year old who was told I looked 5 - 10 years younger it was disconcerting to experience verified age discrimination last year 3 times. I am discovering more and more that people of different economic strata are not mixing anymore so I guess many people don't personally have relatives or friends experiencing tough times due to job loss.
It is EXTREMELY COMPETITIVE OUT THERE. I have a 4 year degree from a well regarded school. If I apply to be a dishwasher or fast food the interviewing manager is wary I might take her job. So many educated are underemployed that "good" jobs are hard to get interviewed for. My best opportunity was at a bank that had 400 applicants.
We are also Certification Nation now. If I want to get into certain fields now despite by degree i have to be certified first, and it costs $5000.
It really is who you know. Problem is the people I know don't have pull enough to get passed the smokescreen that is HR. Also I am finding that good looking people are having a much easier time. No one wants to hire "Mom" or the "get off your lawn guy."
Automation has really taken hold. Smartphones have taken over duties that existed 10 years ago that can be combined with other jobs. Plants and certain jobs get by with less due to robotics. This hurts job growth.
Wish job sharing was available.
Interested that many commentators are amazed that age discrimination exists. As a long term unemployed 48 year old who was told I looked 5 - 10 years younger it was disconcerting to experience verified age discrimination last year 3 times. I am discovering more and more that people of different economic strata are not mixing anymore so I guess many people don't personally have relatives or friends experiencing tough times due to job loss.
It is EXTREMELY COMPETITIVE OUT THERE. I have a 4 year degree from a well regarded school. If I apply to be a dishwasher or fast food the interviewing manager is wary I might take her job. So many educated are underemployed that "good" jobs are hard to get interviewed for. My best opportunity was at a bank that had 400 applicants.
We are also Certification Nation now. If I want to get into certain fields now despite by degree i have to be certified first, and it costs $5000.
It really is who you know. Problem is the people I know don't have pull enough to get passed the smokescreen that is HR. Also I am finding that good looking people are having a much easier time. No one wants to hire "Mom" or the "get off your lawn guy."
Automation has really taken hold. Smartphones have taken over duties that existed 10 years ago that can be combined with other jobs. Plants and certain jobs get by with less due to robotics. This hurts job growth.
Wish job sharing was available.
6
"Are these signs of age discrimination?" To put it mildly, are you kidding?! I am 60 and work at a non-profit that helps unemployed ppl with the job-search labyrinth. I cannot begin to tell the number of times we hear from 50+ clients that they've just been laid off . . . the number who tell stories of blatant age discrimination . . . or the number of times we hear from upset-and-laid-off women who've been told to dye their hair or they'll never be hired (this happened to me two years ago when I was unemployed). It is HORRIBLE how much age discrimination there is, and yet nothing is done about it. Were it another group being discriminated against, it would be all over the media and something would actually happen about it. But news flash!! Every single one of us is going to get old, unless tragedy intervenes. So we'd best figure this one out.
8
Not to mention that older workers actually tend to take FEWER sick days, have generally better work ethics, and are not likely to leave the job to take care of children or elderly parents.
In other words, discrimination against elder workers actually hurts the employers, too, though they don't seem to realize it.
In other words, discrimination against elder workers actually hurts the employers, too, though they don't seem to realize it.
5
They don't have to pay the new kids as much, and that's an immediate, visible benefit. The ones you describe are theoretical.
1
Age discrimination is alive thriving in America. We, the US, buy into raw unchecked capitalism like a religion, which leads us to betray ourselves and each other often, rationalizing we should have saved millions by 50 and be ashamed if we did not.
If we really cared about the US as a community of humans instead of "profit widgets", we would ask more of our very wealthy country in terms of job security, healthcare, education, etc. Instead we pour over 50% of every tax dollar into un-winnable wars and our omnipotent industrial military complex.
It's such a tough fight - to keep those over 55 gainfully employed until they are 66 or so. No one cares until it's their turn and then they have no power to make the changes.
If we really cared about the US as a community of humans instead of "profit widgets", we would ask more of our very wealthy country in terms of job security, healthcare, education, etc. Instead we pour over 50% of every tax dollar into un-winnable wars and our omnipotent industrial military complex.
It's such a tough fight - to keep those over 55 gainfully employed until they are 66 or so. No one cares until it's their turn and then they have no power to make the changes.
12
This is the same for women of child bearing years. It has again become acceptable not to hire women because "she'll want a maternity leave".
3
In the field I've been in, during the recession, so many of my peers, including me, lost jobs. I don't know a single colleague who has been successful in getting a similar job post recession. None. And these are savvy, skilled folks. Consulting and freelance work took the place - no benefits. The study that says data for age discrimination is weak is weak.
8
I just turned 70 this summer. I am at a "sit down" job at the Switchboard of a fair sized hospital. I got to this point by first volunteering then part-time (while I got a masters in teaching) When I looked for a position in teaching I saw the "teaching to the test" fumble. Nope. Back to the hospital. Now I have the ability to answer Code Blues and stuck elevators. The buck stops at my chair. I am alone at my station and have to handle many emergencies. Best of all, I love what I am doing. I hear how I help people many times daily. My degrees may be helping me but the skills of age, maturity and unflappability are of more use to me and the hospital.
15
Computer science/software developers are half as likely?
I postulate this is due to the destabilized job markets from the silly, immoral, unethical visas.
Did you notice when this visa abuse got into full-swing, then economic growth has become persistently slow? I believe there is a causal correlation.
I postulate this is due to the destabilized job markets from the silly, immoral, unethical visas.
Did you notice when this visa abuse got into full-swing, then economic growth has become persistently slow? I believe there is a causal correlation.
12
Quoctrung asks: "Labeling it discrimination is another matter, however." Yes. There is no question. There is rampant description across all job and income categories. I've been told out right by a head hunter that her clients do not want people "with too much experience." Really?
The research is over, the questioning arguments answered, now is the time to enforce the laws.
The research is over, the questioning arguments answered, now is the time to enforce the laws.
10
Age discrimination is very alive out there. If you are over 50 chances are working in fast food or at Wally World may be your only option. It's a sad state of affairs for people without pensions who cannot afford to live off their savings for the next 30 or so years. Age discrimination laws need to be enforced and employers know they are not.
16
"Working keeps older Americans happier, healthier and more mentally engaged." This makes it sound as if it is optionaL. Try this: "Working keeps older Americans fed, clothed, and housed."
42
At 79, and finding a paying job at age 71 after looking for 2 years, I have realized that aging is a rare opportunity and finding work is even rarer. So to find work that allows one to stay engaged, live in dignity and importantly to continue to observe and learn as our society moves into the future is truly an experience that I treasure.
i am lucky in that many of my coworkers are young. I have the experience of working with some who are the age of my own sons and also with colleagues who are the age of my 20s grandchildren. My job, gives me a chance to meet people and continue to learn but doesn't pay much. I job hunt. So far, not hired but often a finalist.
Over the 8 years in this job, I have co-authored 3 books on the need to continue to improve our national transport system, and reduce the deadly congestion on our highways by using our Interstate Highway rights-of-way to construct a national Maglev network for passenger and freight. I work with the inventors of superconducting Maglev, Drs. James Powell & Gordon Danby who are older. Gordon recently died.: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/12/science/gordon-t-danby-dies-at-86-help...
With decades of experience in energy and environmental policy research, writing allows me to follow my interest and hopefully make a contribution to society. I would like to work n the White House, head of Amtrak, or as the Secretary of Transportation but I know that age is a barrier.
i am lucky in that many of my coworkers are young. I have the experience of working with some who are the age of my own sons and also with colleagues who are the age of my 20s grandchildren. My job, gives me a chance to meet people and continue to learn but doesn't pay much. I job hunt. So far, not hired but often a finalist.
Over the 8 years in this job, I have co-authored 3 books on the need to continue to improve our national transport system, and reduce the deadly congestion on our highways by using our Interstate Highway rights-of-way to construct a national Maglev network for passenger and freight. I work with the inventors of superconducting Maglev, Drs. James Powell & Gordon Danby who are older. Gordon recently died.: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/12/science/gordon-t-danby-dies-at-86-help...
With decades of experience in energy and environmental policy research, writing allows me to follow my interest and hopefully make a contribution to society. I would like to work n the White House, head of Amtrak, or as the Secretary of Transportation but I know that age is a barrier.
12
There are benefits both ways, having older workers continue to work, and having them retire so more younger workers can have better jobs. There is no perfect answer. Keeping older people working helps them live longer, having people live longer is a also a cost. Smokers actually saved us money by dying younger. For many the question is can I afford to retire, will I have enough to live comfortably for the rest of my life. Trying to answer that question keeps us working.
7
One of the things that encourages age discrimination is the ability of the employer to Google the potential employee. Age, credit history and, in the case of some, criminal history, are available to all. One thing that might help is to stop this information from being available. Availability to law enforcement is one thing, but it should not be available to anyone else. It was not available to employers thirty years ago, and they didn't suffer any undo hardship due to the lack of information.
15
Last time I checked one's credit history is not available on Google.
I went to law school at 48. Retraining is one way to stay away from an old-people job. So I'm 66 and lucked into a great in-house job that started contract eight years ago. I make six figures for the first time in my life and plan to work til I die if they let me. This is not an old person's job. However, this is not for the faint of heart or lazy. I spend a huge amount of time and energy on maintenance and self-care to keep up with the young folks and look and feel the part. That includes daily fitness, perfect nutrition, optimal weight, "procedures", stylish dress, etc. If you aren't willing to put in this type of work to be and appear youthful, you will have a hard time. Sorry but Appearance is important to compete with younger people. But if you do it right, your world will open. I run circles around my co-workers who are not nearly as healthy. I have not a single sick day in 5 years and don't come close to my HSA deductible. I have no plans to touch Medicare until I am forced.
17
Great work but at 48 I had 2 kids in college and needed to earn a lot and spend zippo. Law school is expensive and takes time from needed work focus and family
12
Lived in the US till 55. Came to Costa RIca, Went to law school. At 62 years old I work on my own. Love it. A new beginning. I do not make six figures though!!! Congratulations Leonora, quite an inspiration.
10
Exactly!!! Fine advice for those who have the money to further their education. (And then there are the rest of us.) My highly rated all-women's college told us 38 years ago that we'd always be employable and at wonderful jobs. Pie.In.The.Sky.
2
From 2007 (age 54) to 2015 (62), I was an adjunct instructor. I would have waited until full retirement (66), but I was forced to do early (I needed the money), which cost me about $1,000 a month. Plus I took dividends from investments because adjunct wages are unlivable. See:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-a-domino/why-i-paid-myself-72000-t_...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-a-domino/why-i-paid-myself-72000-t_...
6
A livable wage for ALL jobs would mitigate some of these problems. There are so many jobs that are critical that pay peanuts: para-professionals in schools, assistants for the elderly, care for young children, library assistants, etc. These jobs are critical, and the talented people who actually enjoy these jobs and are good at it are really basically donating their time, because they are NOT making a living at it.
It is time we started valuing their quality-of-life contributions.
It is time we started valuing their quality-of-life contributions.
27
Adjunct college professors (most are "older"), who make about what Walmart "associates" make, but with advanced degrees, experience, a a myriad of skill sets.
14
It's not realistic for most to retire at age 55 when people are now living into their late 80s. Actually, when I reach my mid-50s my children will be in college. I will need earning power. Those age 50 to 65 really aren't older workers anymore but middle aged workers given our lifespan and delayed child rereading. One of the most important things is that age discrimination laws need to be strengthened and enforced. We need better labor laws all around and other worker protections, including unions.
25
As the demographics of the developed West tilt toward the aged, it looks really bad for progressivism because these people know that most of the things government leaders try to do never work out for the citizens.
The black & white list of just what federal or national governments can and should NOT do in the U.S. Constitution slams the door on so much waste and power-grabbing that the long-term trend should be toward the conservative thinking that represents the GOP here and the Brexit vote in Britain.
Federal governments can handle arguments between states, and these things for all the states:
national defense (including roads demanded for national defense(,
mail delivery (including post roads,)
a justice system,
the currency and national treasury including production of money,
a system of weights and measures,
personal protections as cited in the Bill of Rights, the Civil War Amendments, and copyright protection,
international relations, the arrangement of elections, and the control of criminal activity extending across state lines (added in the early 20th century.)
The best source of federal responsibilities remains the writings of James Madison.
The black & white list of just what federal or national governments can and should NOT do in the U.S. Constitution slams the door on so much waste and power-grabbing that the long-term trend should be toward the conservative thinking that represents the GOP here and the Brexit vote in Britain.
Federal governments can handle arguments between states, and these things for all the states:
national defense (including roads demanded for national defense(,
mail delivery (including post roads,)
a justice system,
the currency and national treasury including production of money,
a system of weights and measures,
personal protections as cited in the Bill of Rights, the Civil War Amendments, and copyright protection,
international relations, the arrangement of elections, and the control of criminal activity extending across state lines (added in the early 20th century.)
The best source of federal responsibilities remains the writings of James Madison.
1
Should the Federal government assist the citizens of Louisiana during a 500 year flood event or hurricane (Katrina) ?
Should the US government assist California with the control of a massive wild fire or New York with a 9/11 event ?
Should Florida assume the full cost of containing the Zika virus in that state ?
Should the US government assist West Virginia or Flint, Michigan with an assessment of risk and remedy options to massive pollution that poses significant health risks to entire cities, towns or state regions ?
Should the US government enforce the provisions of the Clean Air Act knowing the there is a profit motive to entice non-compliance ?
Should the US government conduct ongoing investigation of suspected stock market manipulation or fraudulent trading activity ?
The US government acts and spends significantly to protect the safety of our food supply and public health. Should we leave that activity to private enterprise knowing the obvious conflicts of interest and disproportionate risks to ordinary citizens ?
I wouldn't worry about the future prospects for progressivism. When you put Worldcom, Enron, Bear Stearns & the Exxon-Valdez in clear view, the role of progressivism looks extremely good on balance .... if not perfect.
Should the US government assist California with the control of a massive wild fire or New York with a 9/11 event ?
Should Florida assume the full cost of containing the Zika virus in that state ?
Should the US government assist West Virginia or Flint, Michigan with an assessment of risk and remedy options to massive pollution that poses significant health risks to entire cities, towns or state regions ?
Should the US government enforce the provisions of the Clean Air Act knowing the there is a profit motive to entice non-compliance ?
Should the US government conduct ongoing investigation of suspected stock market manipulation or fraudulent trading activity ?
The US government acts and spends significantly to protect the safety of our food supply and public health. Should we leave that activity to private enterprise knowing the obvious conflicts of interest and disproportionate risks to ordinary citizens ?
I wouldn't worry about the future prospects for progressivism. When you put Worldcom, Enron, Bear Stearns & the Exxon-Valdez in clear view, the role of progressivism looks extremely good on balance .... if not perfect.
27
The states can decide whether to come together to deal with such tragedies, just as they have the right to warn people that the riskiest locations should not be built on.
You always want as local local people as possible making local decisions and responsible for local money. We may be losing the purchasing value of half the money sent to D.C. just because no one in gov't or the media is watching.
The state allowing for the most local control recovered 5 times faster than the state next door that always did everything in a top-down-orders-from-headquarters manner.
You always want as local local people as possible making local decisions and responsible for local money. We may be losing the purchasing value of half the money sent to D.C. just because no one in gov't or the media is watching.
The state allowing for the most local control recovered 5 times faster than the state next door that always did everything in a top-down-orders-from-headquarters manner.
The states HAVE decided to come together ... it's called the United States of America. Or are we Europe?
3
In the next 20 years, huge changes will occur in the world......not from climate, not from war, not from the world's economies, but from what some here have labeled the "Age Wave". The proportion of persons over 60 is growing faster than any age group in the U.S. We believe that, unlike Japan (worse case scenario), Italy, Germany, and to some extent China, we will be able to handle this large proportion of people that are not working and who have higher rates of illnesses and immobility than the rest of the population. Some of us believe that immigrants from South and Central America, the Middle East, Africa and Asia, will have lots of babies and that our population will have enough young people to support older people. Countries such as Italy and Germany have taken huge steps to recognizing their problem and dealing with it. Older adults are treated differently in those countries. Indeed, cultures have revered older adults since the beginning of time. The terrible treatment of older adults in the U.S. (a culture that still refers to older adults as "elderly") as disposable and useless will have great implications for our culture. Just because a person over 60 is slower in cognitive thought processes does not mean s(he) can not her/his wisdom in many other ways. How about life experiences, how much do they count vs. being able to program the latest language? I love mathematics, it is the highest form of knowledge, but we are not robots and the more we become so, the more....
9
your mathematical formula does not take into account the very important factors of automation and technology.
I never used a mathematical formula. Automation and technology are the epitome of robots. My God, I know that people in the STEMS are vacuous about the humanities, but this is on another level.
4
Hopelessly idealistic unless you somehow tie all that accumulated wisdom to work that enough people will pay for. For example teaching the young life skills and how to avoid all the worst mistakes.
The cold fact is this: if you are 50 or older in America today, you will not be considered for any employment, other than minimum-wage jobs, unless a family member, friend or political connection can get you an interview. This prohibition also starts, in some cases, at age 40 or 45. One can't even begin to quantify how much solid, excellent and practical experience and knowledge is being wasted right now because of these people not being considered for employment. And we have not even discussed the devastating effect this has on the finances and families of these individuals. Age discrimination is one of the most difficult legal matters to prove and American business knows it and uses it to its advantage. What is quite interesting to note is that while American business does not want these individuals in these age groups, huge numbers of people in senior management in American business fall precisely into these same "prohibited" age groups and are still employed with no fear of losing their jobs. These people should have been let go from their jobs the moment they reached the "magic" age number. But those who have the gold make the rules. It must be nice to have the gold.
53
I had my first job at 45 when I got a divorce. Your are correct that I could find nothing close to my ability. My solution was to apply to law school at 48. I did get my first job through a fellow law student whose Dad needed someone, but then I had to prove myself in my fifties. You are naïve if you think most people do not get jobs this way. It's always who you know and that is a skill to make connections.
If you retrain and exercise and eat right and work at health, you will have no problem getting a quality job. But frankly most people let themselves go. They gain weight, get a sour attitude, and shuffle. Of course they can't compete.
If you retrain and exercise and eat right and work at health, you will have no problem getting a quality job. But frankly most people let themselves go. They gain weight, get a sour attitude, and shuffle. Of course they can't compete.
3
Sure sounds exactly like an earlier post...is some law school posting or pushing these?
Most law school grads I know couldn't find jobs and the field was swamped with grads.
Something isn't right here.
Most law school grads I know couldn't find jobs and the field was swamped with grads.
Something isn't right here.
17
I am retired library supervisor (with a BA under my belt, I am not a librarian) and last Fall I took a part time position at a local university as a library clerk to augment my social security, assisting patrons at the circulation desk, re-shelving books, etc. (which is physically taxing at times) and other clerical duties. It is a intellectually stimulating environment and one I hope to keep up as long as I can manage the rigors of the position. I am 66.
15
I am 50, an ex-technical writer who is leaving the field because the work is too unreliable (if I'm lucky, a tech writing gig lasts 6 months, and that's being very optimistic).
I see ageism only as part of the problem (Maybe 20-30%). In my region (Texas) I think the economy has changed significantly -- and there are just significantly fewer meaningful FT jobs. Part of the problem is that if you go off a career ladder, you typically have to start at the bottom. I am trying to brainstorm some service which I can perform in a sole-proprietorship capacity which when added up to a low-paying PT job can make a middle class (or at least a lower middle class) existence.
Finally, why do job apps take so long to fill out? Employers can and should redesign job applications so that they are not too long and don't impose an added time burden on older workers. I have often spent 4-12 hours on a single job application!
I see ageism only as part of the problem (Maybe 20-30%). In my region (Texas) I think the economy has changed significantly -- and there are just significantly fewer meaningful FT jobs. Part of the problem is that if you go off a career ladder, you typically have to start at the bottom. I am trying to brainstorm some service which I can perform in a sole-proprietorship capacity which when added up to a low-paying PT job can make a middle class (or at least a lower middle class) existence.
Finally, why do job apps take so long to fill out? Employers can and should redesign job applications so that they are not too long and don't impose an added time burden on older workers. I have often spent 4-12 hours on a single job application!
The chart does not capture the number of older workers who are self-employed rather than being "hired" by someone else. I imagine that many older workers gravitate to self-employment after an unsuccessful job search, if they can. In looking at the list of "Least Common Jobs for Older Workers" many of those jobs (e.g., carpenters, lawyers, electricians, computer scientists) hold possibilities for self-employment or independent contractor work.
16
It is much better to be employed by govt or public ed in the past 25 years because seniority protects you and a pension allows you to leave at 60 and let the younger person get the job. While it is true that these are bankrupting states and cities, the secure families that benefit dont care and it seems fair that an engineer or accountant should work til they drop at crummy jobs while a teacher or toll collector will get a secure retirement. If we are going to go broke go broke in such a way that will benefit everybody.
10
Everyone has the opportunity to work in one of these wonderful government jobs by simply taking and passing a test and getting a high enough score to get hired. Then work the next 30 or so years for less than you can get in private industry in frequently dirty, uncomfortable (120 degrees or more), stressful conditions doing dangerous work so you can retire and finally rest your broken body.
As a retired former government worker I am sick and tired of people whining about how we are bankrupting the system. Many of us made the choice to be paid less now and get a pension later. Get over it. It's the politicians that are bankrupting our cities, states etc. with ill conceived plans, deals, tax cuts etc.
As a retired former government worker I am sick and tired of people whining about how we are bankrupting the system. Many of us made the choice to be paid less now and get a pension later. Get over it. It's the politicians that are bankrupting our cities, states etc. with ill conceived plans, deals, tax cuts etc.
23
James, you also forgot to mention that govt workers, to get that pension, have to pay into it. Depending on what govt org you are with this can be from, typically, 3% to 8% of one's income. These pensions are hence not "free"
14
That 3-8% is less than or equal to social security, which can only pay out fully at 67 and far less than a govt pension. I dont see the word "free" anywhere.
2
Let me relate my experience many years ago when I hired a locksmith in his fifties early sixties. When my boss met him he said " he's old, what were you thinking?". I said "he's got plenty of experience!" He wound up working out very well. He turned out to be the best locksmith and one of the finest people I have ever met.
37
How can you say that the top jobs aren't physical? Have you ever seen a nurses aid work? It is a physically punishing job and often leads to injuries.
22
This article and most commenters have neglected the obvious: the push to delay eligibility for Social Security benefits is completely unrealistic given the difficulty older workers have in finding and keeping employment. To all those Congressmen out there who want to further up the retirement age, reduce SS benefits because we "cannot afford them", eliminate the ACA AND cut Medicare benefits, all while maintaining the wage ceiling for FICA deductions, I say go home, you obviously have not thought these policies through. We need incentives to retain or hire older workers while allowing them shorter work weeks, or we need to increase retirement benefits, if it is deemed better for our society to move younger people into their positions. As for those younger people, remember, you can only do so much to delay your own aging, so be prepared - and have fun doing it while you also save for (and pay) your kids' college tuitions!
42
When I hire for my business which is part of the "gig economy" I always hirer older people. I just love how dependable they are.
29
Collateral damage of 2008. There aren't enough stars in the sky to match how many resumes I sent to prospective employers and recruiters.
The first hurdle I encountered were the replies stating "while your experience and skill set match those of my client I cannot recommend you as you are not working at present time."
Then came age discrimination. When the job market improved somewhat, I did get interviews but it became abundantly clear that the candidates they were looking for were 25-35 somethings. Fair enough, but I never misrepresented my length of experience or skewed my resume to mislead anyone of my age. I believe those interviews took place either because prospective employers/recruiters wanted to take a walk down nostalgia lane a la Madame Tussaud/Museum of Natural History or they had some mandate to be compliant with EEOC.
Then came the "gig jobs" where you would take any job no matter how humiliating and I mean humiliating and dehumanizing. I once worked a gig job where I was told there would be a raise after a year. When I asked for the agreed raise, was told "I am not giving you a raise" but instead given the advice I should take out a life insurance policy on my 80 something Mother & then I would have money for my future. This is TRUE no bull.
I have an okay job now, only problem is I make 10% of my previous full time salary - no benefits, don't work don't get paid.
I supplement the difference by early withdrawals on my IRA.
Still hoping.
The first hurdle I encountered were the replies stating "while your experience and skill set match those of my client I cannot recommend you as you are not working at present time."
Then came age discrimination. When the job market improved somewhat, I did get interviews but it became abundantly clear that the candidates they were looking for were 25-35 somethings. Fair enough, but I never misrepresented my length of experience or skewed my resume to mislead anyone of my age. I believe those interviews took place either because prospective employers/recruiters wanted to take a walk down nostalgia lane a la Madame Tussaud/Museum of Natural History or they had some mandate to be compliant with EEOC.
Then came the "gig jobs" where you would take any job no matter how humiliating and I mean humiliating and dehumanizing. I once worked a gig job where I was told there would be a raise after a year. When I asked for the agreed raise, was told "I am not giving you a raise" but instead given the advice I should take out a life insurance policy on my 80 something Mother & then I would have money for my future. This is TRUE no bull.
I have an okay job now, only problem is I make 10% of my previous full time salary - no benefits, don't work don't get paid.
I supplement the difference by early withdrawals on my IRA.
Still hoping.
21
(Not Mark) My daughter is at the other end of the spectrum. Under employed since her graduation (from a great state school, degree in economics), she is always told that she is great for the position, but they got somebody with more experience (and obviously willing to work for less). It's been very hard for her and she is beginning to get cynical and bitter. We don't have any friends in high places and although we worked hard all our lives nothing seems to be helping.
7
Hmmm -- how much student debt does she owe? The truth is unless you get into Harvard or something close, you are insane to go to run up college bills. If you aren't scholarship material, then start at a community college and transfer to a State school. Work if you have to and do not run up the bills. Any parent that gets caught up in the college craziness is equally responsible for the predicament. That's your job to inject sanity into the process.
4
At my company a full 1/3 of "employees" are H1B workers while my friends over 40 are passed over. It's a shame Donald Trump is so odious because he's right about immigration destroying the job market.
29
Does the Donald ever discuss this 'type' of immigration, though? I have only heard him speak about the hard-working Mexicans who cross our borders and toil slavishly in our produce fields. All major multi-national corporations lobby Washington every year for more H1Bs -- I have not heard the Donald say anything about this wave...and I have been witnessing the mis-use of this particular Visa for about 25 years, now. It only gets worse and worse...and it affects more and more jobs: application developers, business analysts, recruiters (I particularly love when Indian recruiters solicit my resume and then never return a call!), the medical profession, and even risk management and compliance professionals! These Visas were designed for jobs that COULD NOT be filled by American workers because of a talent shortage. IT IS A JOKE and it is on us!
33
The business of business is business, not "America First". Neither Republicans nor Democrats will stop the H1B worker flow because both are serving the business class (1%), not the working class (99%). Do not expect Mr. Trump to be any help either: His history puts him squarely in the business class. Business only hires according to need and do so only at the lowest cost. H1B labor is cheaper than American labor. QED
17
I'm 58 and employed, but during my last employment search I was sure I'd never get hired again. It's a bizarre feeling to find yourself perceived as obsolete and irrelevant when you have plenty to give and the world needs so much. What a massive creative and intellectual resource America is wasting by sidelining and dismissing people with wisdom, experience, and hard-earned humility.
61
Are people still hiring "secretary" these days?
7
The major complication from enhancing older peoples job prospects is that at the present time the unemployment rate is sky high (including discouraged workers) and every job and old person takes comes at the expense of an opportunity for younger worker.
1
"At the expense of an opportunity for [a] younger worker"? The wording implies that you think the younger worker is more deserving of having that job. Why? You may assume that the older person has had time to develop a career and save for retirement, whereas the younger one still needs to get established. But many, many comments to this article attest to how those assumptions no longer apply.
19
Real wages adjusted for inflation have still not hit the last peak in 1974 and finding a 'good job' suitable to one's ability with adequate compensation is like looking for a diamond in the haystack.
These two factors create competition with in and between generations that is part and parcel of a huge shift of wealth from the working class to the investor class. Look at any company laying off workers or with low wages and in most cases, their shareholders are doing just fine. Look at some Pharmaceuticals with exorbitant consumer prices for their drugs and their investors are making record profits.
Only half of Americans hold any kind of stock, so in essence those who do, in some cases, are taking the wealth from workers to create their own unearned income.
Real wages 1964-2004 (Labor wealth)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_wages#/media/File:US_Real_Wages_1964-...
The Dow Jones index 1915-2015 (Investor wealth)
http://www.macrotrends.net/1319/dow-jones-100-year-historical-chart
These two factors create competition with in and between generations that is part and parcel of a huge shift of wealth from the working class to the investor class. Look at any company laying off workers or with low wages and in most cases, their shareholders are doing just fine. Look at some Pharmaceuticals with exorbitant consumer prices for their drugs and their investors are making record profits.
Only half of Americans hold any kind of stock, so in essence those who do, in some cases, are taking the wealth from workers to create their own unearned income.
Real wages 1964-2004 (Labor wealth)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_wages#/media/File:US_Real_Wages_1964-...
The Dow Jones index 1915-2015 (Investor wealth)
http://www.macrotrends.net/1319/dow-jones-100-year-historical-chart
6
Your statement about ownership only applies to direct stock ownership. If you look at what public and private pensions do with their money, about 80% of workers are also owners.
2
I love to work. Many of the jobs I've taken were "underwhelming" but working for people 30 years younger is a prove out as was the reverse back in the day. Frankly until I was too old I was too young, get over it. Learn the job, like the people, work with others. I see a lot of older folks who actually think they were working when all they did for most of their lives was show up. This a rare chance to learn, so do it and quit bitching. It's hard on everybody gramps, suck it up.
3
Octogenarians made the world safe for democracy.......well, a bit hyperbolic, but definitely they are more on the right side of history than those who are thirty. I suggest you pick up a history book and read about what happened between 1940 and 1960 and see if older adults are people who bitch. At least people who are eighty know how to construct a grammatical sentence. At least they know that Poland is not part of Russia.
They also know that music has existed since prehistoric times and not since 2010.
10
I'm negotiating with myself on what to type. Thanks to some excellent parental guidance (Thanks, Mom & Dad), I can fill my days with a variety of activities that keep me relatively sharp. Not the case for the neighborhood I live in down here in Greer, SC; gardening can be a rewarding activity, but, judging by the results, it doesn't make it as a Full-Time-Job.
I saw the word "dependable" in this article, and I'm surprised more recruiters don't exploit that behavior common to many of us Baby-Boomers.
I don't understand why Millennials, who are so tech-savvy, cannot also be relied on, for the most part.
Age-Discrimination? Quite possibly true, but I don't foresee much action along this front; there never has been, and the EEOC is not known for breaking new ground. I'll just chug along, walk my 3.2K (2 miles) every morning, do some Bi-Cycling in the evenings, and fill as much off my life, as I can, with challenging activities.
Become an active client of the Health Care Industry. No, thank you.
I saw the word "dependable" in this article, and I'm surprised more recruiters don't exploit that behavior common to many of us Baby-Boomers.
I don't understand why Millennials, who are so tech-savvy, cannot also be relied on, for the most part.
Age-Discrimination? Quite possibly true, but I don't foresee much action along this front; there never has been, and the EEOC is not known for breaking new ground. I'll just chug along, walk my 3.2K (2 miles) every morning, do some Bi-Cycling in the evenings, and fill as much off my life, as I can, with challenging activities.
Become an active client of the Health Care Industry. No, thank you.
5
Is it not our responsibility to realize that younger men and women take over the hard work and that we throughout our work life recognize this is a good thing? If we don't take care, in some way, and end up packing bags at Stop and Shop, ummm - how dumb can we be? Not that Im a genius, but Im willing to step down for the haha greater good. Thanks to Social Security and decent service for elders. Now THAT's a cause!
2
One important action that can be taken to help "older" workers who lose their jobs, persons between 50 and 65, is for them to get Medicare while they are out of work. When they do get a job, they can revert to the health benefits provided by their employers.
16
I don't think we need well intended, but skewed Power Point presentations to state the obvious; age discrimination is alive and well in America. The "tsunami" of aging baby boomers who can't afford to retire are competing with the 50% of millennials with college degrees and mountains of debt who can't find work in their chosen careers. "Houston we have a problem here!" In addition, corporate America is "binging" on technology, pushing to integrate automation, robotics and artificial intelligence into the work place as much as possible. The bottom line? Humans have become an expensive and hugely expendable commodity. And let's stop kidding ourselves, even the plethora of security guard and cashier jobs currently available to aging baby boomers will "dry up" overnight as soon as technology finds a way to replace them with a chip or an algorithm. What a world, what a world ...
18
I think the picture in software engineering in particular is more complicated. Most people I know in tech who are older no longer have the title of "software engineer" because they have been promoted -- and that's by the age of 35 or so. That doesn't mean code is never written, but just that either product or people management is usually involved too.
A lot of people also retire from tech work after a while. It just gets old being in an office for decades, and well-paid engineers can afford to leave after a while.
A lot of people also retire from tech work after a while. It just gets old being in an office for decades, and well-paid engineers can afford to leave after a while.
4
Governments all over the world are trying to figure out how to get older people to stay in the labor market? Really? If you can find one, please let us all know. The topic may come up, but a rising topic -- thrown about in passing at a government conference? During a department meeting? When stats come out about labor force participation? -- does not mean concern about, care for, energy put into or solutions or programs proposed. From the POV of the average worker in any country, I would venture that governments are rather unconcerned about whether those over 45 or over 70 are working. Many of us now over 50 hope we live long enough to see some of that "trying to figure out" stuff.
16
remember govt and public ed are seniority driven with defined benefit plans. Many who are elected/appointed are lifelong govt workers who are not aware that we are no longer in the 1950s like "Life of Riley" with unions, pensions, work rules etc and that private sector people are in fact forced our by their late 50s
13
shout out to you. Spot on.
I'm hoping to get to the promised land as soon as possible. This article makes me think of the Twilight Zone episode The Obsolete Man. How prescient was Rod Serling. Heaven help us, Heaven help us.
I'm hoping to get to the promised land as soon as possible. This article makes me think of the Twilight Zone episode The Obsolete Man. How prescient was Rod Serling. Heaven help us, Heaven help us.
4
This is reporting largely on "tendencies" and "patterns", but I have to wonder how strong these tendencies and patterns are? What particularly caught my eye was Supervisors of Construction work to be least common old people jobs. I work in construction, and the real dearth of 30-50 year old people in the industry is highly troubling. The international construction market is particularly alarming, because any turn-over staffing those jobs is much more expensive. Thus, old people are the most desirable internationally because the ones who are unsuited for such work have already been weeded out.
A histogram of employee age is bi-modal, with one peak in the late 20 year olds, and another one in the late 50-60 year olds. That 30 year gap in seasoning and experience will show up in poorer quality construction with longer timelines and expenses. Lessons will have to be learned all over again.
Thus, I wonder how strong these tendencies really are.
A histogram of employee age is bi-modal, with one peak in the late 20 year olds, and another one in the late 50-60 year olds. That 30 year gap in seasoning and experience will show up in poorer quality construction with longer timelines and expenses. Lessons will have to be learned all over again.
Thus, I wonder how strong these tendencies really are.
2
Some of those categories are probably the result of discrimination but an awful lot of them may be because of choice. For example, lots of older people choose to become real estate agents because they think that it lends itself to being part time work (it doesn't but that's not the stereotype). On the other hand being a retail clerk does lend itself to part time work. Ditto for guards and watchmen.
3
Age discrimination is rampant and is the rule, not the exception. It is hidden in forced retirements (with agreements not to disclose), hiring bias, job descriptions, and every other gimmick employers can figure out. The law (by design via employer lobbying) makes it almost impossible to prove age discrimination, so employers get away with it every day; and aging workers have no recourse. Thus, increasing poverty and consequent inadequate health care literally kill aging workers and aging unemployed.
69
In San Francisco, Silicon Valley, etc., age discrimination is so blatant, this in a place that prides itself on its tolerance while fighting charges of discrimination by gender, race, etc. Nevertheless, the tech hoards are primarily young males (and some young females but nowhere near 50%) with attitudes.
41
My friend with 30 years experience in IT was laid off in his early 60s and was never able to find another IT job... so he retrained as an ultrasound tech and got certified, but never got hired. He is qualified to teach in NJ schools, but all he can get is substitute teaching which is uncertain and not available in the summer and not eligible for unemployment. It's really tough out there and there is a huge amount of age discrimination. And the state told him that they only act where someone has been let go due to their age... they do not handling hiring issues
81
It is horrible out there- I got my current job at 55. Now I am in my early 60s I had been hired at a utility with lots of "older people" Now the company has merged and jobs are uncertain.
I sent out some resumes. Got some calls but once they figured out my age talking we me as opposed to a well disguised resume, they completely and totally disappeared. I cannot afford to retire at all right now. so I had better hang on to this job as long as possible because evidently I cannot find another comparable job. It just stinks being treated like I have a contagious illness. But there is NOTHING to do. You cannot prove discrimination before they even meet you. This infuriates me and terrifies me.
I sent out some resumes. Got some calls but once they figured out my age talking we me as opposed to a well disguised resume, they completely and totally disappeared. I cannot afford to retire at all right now. so I had better hang on to this job as long as possible because evidently I cannot find another comparable job. It just stinks being treated like I have a contagious illness. But there is NOTHING to do. You cannot prove discrimination before they even meet you. This infuriates me and terrifies me.
15
bingo..and the time spent in training(and money ) was wasted because he believed in the good will of business and government. They will do nothing
7
That is very discouraging news, because although I am a lawyer, next week I will begin a program that will enable me to earn credits toward my teachers' license. I have an MA, PhD and aJD, but still must complete 28 credits to become licensed in New York State.
Honestly, if I go through all of that and still cannot get a job, I think I'm going to jump off the roof.
Honestly, if I go through all of that and still cannot get a job, I think I'm going to jump off the roof.
3
Well any job that we are capable of doing is way better than no job.
5
Recently I applied for a comparable executive assistant job to the one I am in.
I received an email for a phone screen. I called back to schedule it. My resume did not give away my age, but my voice must have. (I am 63). I never heard from them again.
Now, this was a great company and good job. Fortunately I still have a job, but if I was really truly hurting for a job, I would be desolate. I cannot prove anything. So it goes on and on.
I received an email for a phone screen. I called back to schedule it. My resume did not give away my age, but my voice must have. (I am 63). I never heard from them again.
Now, this was a great company and good job. Fortunately I still have a job, but if I was really truly hurting for a job, I would be desolate. I cannot prove anything. So it goes on and on.
32
I don't disagree about one's voice giving things away, but as I've commented in the NYT several times now, anyone can use any people-finder online site, and find out a prospective employee's age in a matter of seconds. Everything after that may be only a pretense.
2
Where's the EEOC? Isn't it their job to see that age discrimination does not happen? Perhaps we need to have quotas -- whereby employers have to show that they have a diverse workforce (in age, race, sex, etc.).
35
Joanne, the laws, developed by people heavily lobbied by employers, make it almost impossible to prove age discrimination. The EEOC can do only what the law enables it to do. Republicans thwart every effort to prevent discrimination wherever they can. This is one of the little-known by-products of anti-big-government philosophical control - keep big government out of big business's pockets by not regulating employment. It's the "conservative way."
46
Age discrimination is so hard to prove, it is the last acceptable taboo.
6
For what it's worth, several years ago the small publisher I worked for laid off the entire print production department as well as a few other miscellaneous editorial people due to a switch from print to electronic books. Maybe we happened to have an honest HR department but at the time each of us who was laid off was given a copy of a list that would be forwarded to . . . someone, NY State Labor Dept., EEOC, whoever. The company had to list the job title of each person laid off (without their name) and the age of that person to show that not just older workers had been laid off. At 62 I was definitely the oldest on the list but the majority of the layoffs consisted of men and women in their 20s and 30s. No doubt there are ways around it for unscrupulous HR people, but the mechanism is there.
A lot has been made of Silicon Valley firms not hiring women, Blacks and Hispanics, but it's also true that the marketability of workers drops after 30 and plunges after 50.
36
Why is it that Engineers are never included in studies like this? (The text mentions them - but no numbers in the tables; a glaring omission). In Houston, everyone and his sister is some kind of engineer and there is big competition for the small number of openings that exist. I would be very curious if these jobs are going to workers older than 60 or whether we are being rejected in larger numbers than our demographic.
7
Part of the change is opportunity and part of it is misfortune. It's reasonable that older people don't work in jobs with requirements for great physical strength and endurance. Most older people aren't as strong as they were when younger.
Many good paying jobs allow people to put aside enough savings to leave early. When you see your parents die you realize that you are running out of time on this earth and if you can, you try to find ways to enjoy the time you have left. Some are forced out. My company has come up with a trick where they will take away some of our retirement benefits of we don't leave before the end of the year. We already have qualified for the benefit. It's a way to dump employees. I look forward to the class action lawsuit that will come next year. I will probably become a contractor and use Obamacare for the ten months it will take until I qualify for retirement medical benefits. I am not training a replacement, I am too busy. Many companies want the expertise and will pay for it but they don't want to pay the medical insurance. Go figure.
Some people can't quit before maximum retirement age. The social security payments won't be enough to survive on.
Temp work and shorter hours sounds good when you are older, if you can afford it. I have a second cousin who still works as a substitute teacher at 80 . My father worked till 73 (programmer) and my grandmother to 75 (teacher) . My grandfather to 84 (farmer, alfalfa). My ideal would be a four day week.
Many good paying jobs allow people to put aside enough savings to leave early. When you see your parents die you realize that you are running out of time on this earth and if you can, you try to find ways to enjoy the time you have left. Some are forced out. My company has come up with a trick where they will take away some of our retirement benefits of we don't leave before the end of the year. We already have qualified for the benefit. It's a way to dump employees. I look forward to the class action lawsuit that will come next year. I will probably become a contractor and use Obamacare for the ten months it will take until I qualify for retirement medical benefits. I am not training a replacement, I am too busy. Many companies want the expertise and will pay for it but they don't want to pay the medical insurance. Go figure.
Some people can't quit before maximum retirement age. The social security payments won't be enough to survive on.
Temp work and shorter hours sounds good when you are older, if you can afford it. I have a second cousin who still works as a substitute teacher at 80 . My father worked till 73 (programmer) and my grandmother to 75 (teacher) . My grandfather to 84 (farmer, alfalfa). My ideal would be a four day week.
11
Given the fact that the retirement age is increasing it's very unfair to say that workers between the ages of 55 and 64 are not in their prime or are older workers. At the age of 57 I can say that I was discriminated against when I was young because I didn't have the experience. Then, once I got the experience I was discriminated against for having too much experience. I was also discriminated against for being in my prime child bearing years, i.e. female. Then I was discriminated against because I might marry and have children.
In order to survive in this type of society people need to work. They need to make decent wages, to be able to save for retirement, to be able to pay the bills, and maybe have a little left to live. Yes, when we get older we may not want to do physical labor or have to do the really late nights but that doesn't make us stupid, less capable, or less valuable. In fact there are plenty of older workers out there who have a lot to teach younger workers and want to learn. They aren't allowed to because of the ridiculous idea that anyone over the age 45 isn't worth hiring because they're too expensive or they might not stay long enough.
In order to survive in this type of society people need to work. They need to make decent wages, to be able to save for retirement, to be able to pay the bills, and maybe have a little left to live. Yes, when we get older we may not want to do physical labor or have to do the really late nights but that doesn't make us stupid, less capable, or less valuable. In fact there are plenty of older workers out there who have a lot to teach younger workers and want to learn. They aren't allowed to because of the ridiculous idea that anyone over the age 45 isn't worth hiring because they're too expensive or they might not stay long enough.
53
[Not Karen, her partner] At 57 and fairly new to NY I've wondered why I don't get interviews for positions for which I am very clearly qualified, sometimes overqualified. I partially expect age discrimination but believe it misplaced. My bet is that employers are thinking "He's only got 8 years before he retires." But looking at LinkedIN profiles of people in these jobs (for one particular employer) indicates what all professionals know: the time of people working 20-30-40 years for an organization is over. More likely the talented 30-something they hire will leave well before 8 years. One would think HR would take this into account but I don't see that happening.
In addition, positions for which I am overqualified get no responses. It's a Catch-22 and one that does employers a disservice -- not to mention what it does to older workers.
In addition, positions for which I am overqualified get no responses. It's a Catch-22 and one that does employers a disservice -- not to mention what it does to older workers.
56
"... positions for which I am overqualified get no responses."
This is one it's often difficult for people to believe, but it IS true.
When I've talked to people who have also been through a period of long-term unemployment, we've agreed that one of the most difficult parts of it are friends and relatives thinking we've been acting like prima donnas and refusing to take lower-level work, even though we've been applying for it left and right. Many of us have been told to our faces that we're overqualified for a certain position.
Also, I've done hiring, and I would never have hired a person who was significantly overqualified for a position—and particularly not one who had worked a higher-level job than the person who's the supervisor for the position. It raises all kinds of questions about how long the person will stay, how they will fit in with their fellow employees, and whether they'll be whole-hearted about the work or always have one foot out the door.
This is one it's often difficult for people to believe, but it IS true.
When I've talked to people who have also been through a period of long-term unemployment, we've agreed that one of the most difficult parts of it are friends and relatives thinking we've been acting like prima donnas and refusing to take lower-level work, even though we've been applying for it left and right. Many of us have been told to our faces that we're overqualified for a certain position.
Also, I've done hiring, and I would never have hired a person who was significantly overqualified for a position—and particularly not one who had worked a higher-level job than the person who's the supervisor for the position. It raises all kinds of questions about how long the person will stay, how they will fit in with their fellow employees, and whether they'll be whole-hearted about the work or always have one foot out the door.
1
So why is it considered acceptable to discriminate against older workers (or would-be workers) ? It's no longer ok to discriminate against people of color, those of any particular religion, sex, sexual orientation etc. But if you're no longer young, no problem. Discriminate away. And try proving it.
I know from my experience when I was out of work (my position's funding ended), that I had a very hard time finding a new job even with excellent skills, experience etc. I know that if I was younger this would not have been the case.
Why is this considered acceptable? Why do we consign everyone over a certain age to "retirement", whether they are wanting to retire or able financially to retire or not? Why do we assume that older people no longer have "the chops' to do good work? Why do we insist on believing that if they work they are taking a job from a "more deserving" younger person?
I know that this has really reduced my horizons. I keep telling myself that I need to stay with my current employer even though I'm not happy there. The chance of getting hired elsewhere is slim due to my age. I'll have to be self-employed to change jobs. Seems to me that this is a loss as I'm quite good at what I do.
I know from my experience when I was out of work (my position's funding ended), that I had a very hard time finding a new job even with excellent skills, experience etc. I know that if I was younger this would not have been the case.
Why is this considered acceptable? Why do we consign everyone over a certain age to "retirement", whether they are wanting to retire or able financially to retire or not? Why do we assume that older people no longer have "the chops' to do good work? Why do we insist on believing that if they work they are taking a job from a "more deserving" younger person?
I know that this has really reduced my horizons. I keep telling myself that I need to stay with my current employer even though I'm not happy there. The chance of getting hired elsewhere is slim due to my age. I'll have to be self-employed to change jobs. Seems to me that this is a loss as I'm quite good at what I do.
79
About twenty years ago it was decided, when you turned 50, a bulls eye was painted on your back. As in, too high a salary earned over time, and therefore benefit cost were also too high. Don't let the door hit you in the a*s on your way out.
35
We need to get beyond the current notions of an ever increasing salary and 40 hour work weeks that abruptly end in a retirement. As workers finish raising their children, they no longer need the financial horsepower of their younger years, and yet there are few options for transitioning to part-time hours or to positions with less responsibility. Such options would benefit them and all of us.
21
S. Baldwin, no matter what stage of our careers we are at we need to be able to earn enough to pay our bills, our loans, for food, shelter, medical care, etc. The responsibilities change and, in some circumstances, the costs go up instead of going down. What we need is to know that we can get the medical care we need instead of what we can afford. No matter what our ages are if we can't pay our bills it's hard to get by. We may need to rethink how we finance medical care in America, how we pay for college, how many we send to college versus letting them graduate ready to work at the age of 18. In other words what we may really need to do is rethink how we handle our lives from birth to death. Do we force women to choose between having children and having careers? Do we force men to choose between having a family and being part of it or being a workhorse? And do we continue with the policies that are working against anyone who is not part of the 1%?
34
Hooey. some of us never had "financial horsepower" incomes and still need o work 40 hours to survive.
Must be nice.
Must be nice.
10
Silicon Valley companies no longer rely on resume filtering to identify older workers. They have come up with "the on-line video interview". The hiring company streams recorded interview questions "from the team" to the applicant, and records the "video chat session" for later review.
This is replacing the initial "telephone interview" which less reliably detects age.
This is replacing the initial "telephone interview" which less reliably detects age.
63
I worked until I was almost 70. And frankly, I felt guilty about it because I knew I was taking a job away from a younger person. The kids coming up need them more.
When I was job searching at 62, I saw age discrimination, but I can understand and forgive it. It's the only way I can forgive myself for holding on past the point I should have.
When I was job searching at 62, I saw age discrimination, but I can understand and forgive it. It's the only way I can forgive myself for holding on past the point I should have.
6
Speak for yourself. Many prefer to work, are healthy and useful human beings with a lot to offer, more than younger people can. Experience never gets old. Young people are not mature enough to make important decisions. Perhaps you like do nothing all day. Moreover, those younger than you in their 50s and 60s cannot afford or have the luxury to retire like you any longer.
30
I understand your point, but the economy isn't a zero-sum game. By working until you were nearly 70, you weren't taking a job away from a younger person. When you were working you were probably earning more, spending more and paying more in taxes than you are today. Your contribution to the economy has likely dropped. So, by working as long as you did, you didn't take anything from anyone. It's your spending - demand - particularly if that demand is in the form of spending on a service that gives someone a job. So you didn't take anything from anyone by working as long as you did.
20
Well I would not feel bad if I got a job that I did well instead of a younger person. I retired at 59 because my job was being eliminated and I could afford to do so. I would work part time in my profession even for little to no pay.
9
There are a couple of items that worth noting. First, the chart that shows the likelihood of being reemployed after losing a job when your 62 or older. After two years, the likelihood is less than 50% whether you are or are not a college graduate. It’s slightly better for college graduates, but only slightly. Second, “… forestalling retirement could relieve some of the pressure a large aging population places on this country’s social safety net” along with the fact that “…evidence suggests that finding ways to keep older Americans working has benefits to the broader society: Working keeps older Americans happier, healthier and more mentally engaged.” Employed older people make money and pay taxes reducing demands on Social Security. Also, working older people are happier as well as healthier meaning there is a commensurate reduction on the financial pressures on the Medicare and Medicaid.
Therefore, it is a societal positive to have older people employed. When older people are employed, this reduces the demands on our entitlement programs: Social Security and Medicare. So I asked the question of our lawmakers and the EEOC: Why are you not insuring that employers are not discriminating against older candidates? Because they are and all the evidence is showing that they are. And it's clear that no one is doing anything about it.
Therefore, it is a societal positive to have older people employed. When older people are employed, this reduces the demands on our entitlement programs: Social Security and Medicare. So I asked the question of our lawmakers and the EEOC: Why are you not insuring that employers are not discriminating against older candidates? Because they are and all the evidence is showing that they are. And it's clear that no one is doing anything about it.
87
FYI: Social security and medicare are not entitlement programs. Workers have paid into it all their lives and deserve the benefits when they cannot find work after 35+ years of hard work.
29
"Entitlement" is what programs are called that are guaranteed, not discretionary funding.
1
It never ceases to amaze me how many confuse "entitlements" with "welfare" or "charity." None of which are particularly bad, to the contrary some, like "entitlements" are good. Perhaps Fox news channels and the wing nuts on the right have "Orwellianized' the term... but the point is, "entitlements" are earned, with workers paying into them, hence the following are entitlements:
Virtually all private and public pensions;
Social Security Retirement;
Medicare; &
even Unemployment Insurance in a few states.
However, food stamps or TANF is welfare; but when businesses get government subsidies, at the worst it's called corporate welfare, but in fact it's just fraud and waste compliments of the US Chamber of Commerce acting as the pork barrel rolling lobbyists and political cronies which they are.
Not to loose sight of the word "entitled," it is unfortunate when those who are NOT due anything demand something and then get it, just because they whined. Indeed, US businesses epitomize self-aggrandizing selfishness, or the worse of the entitled, who actually are NOT. When blacks, women, or the elderly (or any vulnerable groups) are systematically discriminated against it's just more corporate welfare at the root of it, aided by ignorance from the rest of us ... although racism, sexism, and ageism very accurately describe corporate hiring practices, they're just the social price we pay for coddling big business by lavishing corporate welfare on them. We'll never learn!
Virtually all private and public pensions;
Social Security Retirement;
Medicare; &
even Unemployment Insurance in a few states.
However, food stamps or TANF is welfare; but when businesses get government subsidies, at the worst it's called corporate welfare, but in fact it's just fraud and waste compliments of the US Chamber of Commerce acting as the pork barrel rolling lobbyists and political cronies which they are.
Not to loose sight of the word "entitled," it is unfortunate when those who are NOT due anything demand something and then get it, just because they whined. Indeed, US businesses epitomize self-aggrandizing selfishness, or the worse of the entitled, who actually are NOT. When blacks, women, or the elderly (or any vulnerable groups) are systematically discriminated against it's just more corporate welfare at the root of it, aided by ignorance from the rest of us ... although racism, sexism, and ageism very accurately describe corporate hiring practices, they're just the social price we pay for coddling big business by lavishing corporate welfare on them. We'll never learn!
2
The lumping and splitting of jobs borders on the humorous, but betrays a pretty out of touch reporter. Truck driving usually does involve a lot of physical labor--there are goods that are being moved, even if it is mostly a moving people business like airport shuttles. Clerking involves plenty of physical labor--packing bags, stocking shelves, etc. Machinists are highly skilled people whose apprenticeships last as long as 4 year college education--the decline with age may have to do with technology (which has reshaped the work), dexterity, and visual acuity. OTOH, there continues to be a shortage of machinists, which makes me think that employers just don't want to pay for experience.
25
Corporations don't want to pay for machinists. There's a lot of corporate whining when they won't pay a decent wage. They want to hire endentured slaves and sell to the free
12
Retail is brutal too
2
Article about 55 plus, chart stops at 49?
12
At 75 YO, I have a great sales job for one simple reason - I have outsold all others. I started from a well below average territory and now I cover the USA.
Reason - other sales reps in the past did very little to support their customers - they were only aware of their potential commission.
I still have customers from 20 YAG contacting me with questions about their new facility and whose products they should buy.
What I love about commission sales is that you get instant recognition for your efforts. Having worked for a Dow 30 company and having developed some incredible systems to increase sales - my immediate supervisors always took credit for the results even though these efforts were not understood by those people.
Reason - other sales reps in the past did very little to support their customers - they were only aware of their potential commission.
I still have customers from 20 YAG contacting me with questions about their new facility and whose products they should buy.
What I love about commission sales is that you get instant recognition for your efforts. Having worked for a Dow 30 company and having developed some incredible systems to increase sales - my immediate supervisors always took credit for the results even though these efforts were not understood by those people.
24
I'm almost 70 and am still being called to work per diem when others much younger are being replaced or move on... I can still do the job as well as a younger person.
9
While your stats may be technically correct, you overlook the real plight/issue of senior workers....at least in the private sector, in mid to big size companies, ie their policy of economic genocide against them.
From 2000 on, it has been just as ugly and bad as any other discrimination in the past ie against blacks, women, indians, unions etc.
The only difference here is that it has never been covered by the press and the advocacy groups like the AARP are largely useless...
From 2000 on, it has been just as ugly and bad as any other discrimination in the past ie against blacks, women, indians, unions etc.
The only difference here is that it has never been covered by the press and the advocacy groups like the AARP are largely useless...
88
Paul, thank you for having the courage to put it as you have. I see what you see. Ageism is one of our socially acceptable prejudices, even when it destroys people by depriving them of what they need to live, to remain alive. How can America think itself "great" while we allow human beings to be discarded, starved, warehoused, mistreated in ways countless and uncounted, simply because they've aged?
57
Right on Paul. AARP is worthless, it's the equivalent of a child-molesting priest being put in charge of catechism class (or a perverted preacher leading Sunday school, or how ever you relate to the metaphor). Eastern cultures use to venerate their elderly, as we used to once in the West, where a contract across the generations grew out of the extended family into social programs that included public education financed by home owning workers' and retirees' property taxes, etc.
Welcome to the new Soylent Green (the remake which should be called "Insovent Green," with a cannibalistic twist on Jonathan Swift's, "A Modest Proposal."
Welcome to the new Soylent Green (the remake which should be called "Insovent Green," with a cannibalistic twist on Jonathan Swift's, "A Modest Proposal."
3
I don't mean any disrespect, but it strikes me as noteworthy, that racism, sexism, prejudice based on sexual orientation to include transgender people- all these things are being changed and woven into society and the work place.
But being over 60 is the kiss of employment death. I find it horrifying. there is not a darn thing to do about it. I am going to dig my heals in hard at my current job. I have not desire to be a helper for other older people for minimum wage... But I could get washed out with a merger.
But being over 60 is the kiss of employment death. I find it horrifying. there is not a darn thing to do about it. I am going to dig my heals in hard at my current job. I have not desire to be a helper for other older people for minimum wage... But I could get washed out with a merger.
Lots of age discrimination is exercised with many companies. If a person is pushed out of a job at 55, 60, 62, etc. and told they lack a skill, are no longer performing adequately, making no impact or whatever, the first thing you must do is call a an attorney who specialized in unemployment law.
27
Most of these companies offer a severance package.
A buddy of mine was let go at age 58 with one year's pay. He went to an attorney and asked if he should sue. The attorney told him that if he sued and won, he'd get about a year's pay, so why not just take the offer?
A buddy of mine was let go at age 58 with one year's pay. He went to an attorney and asked if he should sue. The attorney told him that if he sued and won, he'd get about a year's pay, so why not just take the offer?
5
All I know is that where I work, the older people show up for work as they are instructed to whereas the millennials come in when they feel like it and, using one 31 year-old female as an example, leave after putting in a 5 1/2 hour day because "I'm exhausted by this job and can't do it anymore today." The difference in work ethic is striking and doesn't bode well for the future.
81
Funneling people into particular jobs is as old as employment. Whether or not the practice is based on conscious prejudice or some warped view of what the employer's organization "needs", the result is invidious discrimination based on physical characteristics.
In case you've ever noticed, look at the ghetto jobs in corporate staffing. All of the "human rights/ Title VII" jobs are filled with women and minorities. Many of the "human capital" jobs are filled with those same groups. Men, particularly white men, are hired for the jobs that have significant potential advancement.
There are always excuses based on what the employer believes are "the best interests" of the organization. Those beliefs are simply that; fundamentally employment is founded on mores, not actual value.
In case you've ever noticed, look at the ghetto jobs in corporate staffing. All of the "human rights/ Title VII" jobs are filled with women and minorities. Many of the "human capital" jobs are filled with those same groups. Men, particularly white men, are hired for the jobs that have significant potential advancement.
There are always excuses based on what the employer believes are "the best interests" of the organization. Those beliefs are simply that; fundamentally employment is founded on mores, not actual value.
15
I spent a number of years working at some of the largest ad agencies in the country. As my career progressed, I found myself caught between clients who wanted my effort and expertise on their projects and my own senior management (and their masters at the holding companies). The direction was always the same - some version of "that work should be done by younger, cheaper people". Being cheaper has become a virtue and replaced wisdom and experience in the job market.
87
Of course, in the ad agency world, and especially in management consulting - where billable hours rule, it's the younger lower-paid professionals that yield more profit. The older professionals' jobs are to go out and get new business, so you can show you have X$ of "business under management" - and concomitant profit, especially if the work is being done by someone more "junior" and you can fool the clients into thinking the senior person is actually engaged. All you have to do to see this is true is to look at the operations processes of big consulting firms: clients think they're getting customized "grey-hair" consulting solutions, but they're really getting some off-the-shelf "strategy in a box", delivered by a few "grizzled" senior executives, and priced according to so called "WTP" - what the client is "willing to pay", the revenue goals of the senior person under even more pressure to generate billable hours (given their age and fungibility) and how much of a crisis situation the paying client faces in their business.
4
I think the cheaper issue is partly an excuse. They seem to be repelled or allergic to "older" people. but one of these days it will sneak up on them too, if they are lucky.
And you see it in the inane TV commercials now being broadcast, where all you remember is the nonsensical ad but not the product being promoted..
There was a wave of layoffs of older (50+) workers in the 80's and 90's to avoid having them become eligible for pensions in employer based systems that were used to lure them into particular industries to begin with. A long term bait and switch which denied the value of long term experience in favor of fattening the bottom line. Older middle management personnel were laid off in droves.
This isn't age discrimination as much as it is cold calculation without regard for ethics and fairness. It speaks to the culture of business in a winner-take-all economy.
Yes, life is not fair. The universe is not fair. But this does not require humans to reject fairness in their dealings with each other. Rather, as the sole potential source of fairness in the world it requires humans to practice fairness in all aspects of our lives.
This isn't age discrimination as much as it is cold calculation without regard for ethics and fairness. It speaks to the culture of business in a winner-take-all economy.
Yes, life is not fair. The universe is not fair. But this does not require humans to reject fairness in their dealings with each other. Rather, as the sole potential source of fairness in the world it requires humans to practice fairness in all aspects of our lives.
139
Well said!!
10
Most excellent. Fairness is no longer a business consideration. The short term bottom line is the only thing that matters anymore. Long term is not a factor, only the next quarter.
13
It's still happening. I was let go exactly 3 months before I turned 55 from a company that had given me good work reviews, told me I was a valued part of the team, and all the other garbage they tell you when they want you. Then again the fact that I was also stupid enough to tell HR about some sexual harassment I'd heard about didn't help. But I'm betting that it was the age thing. After all, it's better not to have to deal with those pesky older workers who persist in getting older than it is to deal with them when they are retired and can't afford to live anywhere and are eating cat food.
16
Older workers, including professionals like myself with college educations and advanced degrees, were laid off in droves in the years 2008-2009. We sat on the sidelines during the anemic economic recovery. Time passed. We grew older, but no less desirous of returning to the labor force. We tapped into our retirement accounts early.
Facing discrimination against our age and bias against our long-term unemployment, we took jobs requiring fewer skills at salaries that were dramatically lower. Or we hung up "single shingles" and joined the gig economy, hustling former employers and colleagues. Note, too, that hiring managers were uncomfortable hiring people who were older than themselves and who might have mentored other team members, while proving more loyal than the survivors who were resentful about being overworked during the lean years, 2009-2011.
When employers discount education and years of experience-based knowledge, a candidate's most reliable skills of showing up on time and completing tasks in a timely manner are all that can be offered to a marketplace that ultimately views every one of its workers as fungible and replaceable.
Facing discrimination against our age and bias against our long-term unemployment, we took jobs requiring fewer skills at salaries that were dramatically lower. Or we hung up "single shingles" and joined the gig economy, hustling former employers and colleagues. Note, too, that hiring managers were uncomfortable hiring people who were older than themselves and who might have mentored other team members, while proving more loyal than the survivors who were resentful about being overworked during the lean years, 2009-2011.
When employers discount education and years of experience-based knowledge, a candidate's most reliable skills of showing up on time and completing tasks in a timely manner are all that can be offered to a marketplace that ultimately views every one of its workers as fungible and replaceable.
150
Excellent, point-by-point on-target depiction of the economy since the crash. I see you are in New York as am I. How many interviews have you been called in for, only to realize you've been rejected immediately when you've walked into the room, prepped for an interview with ideas an experience, as soon as the (much younger) interviewer sees you?
2
That is why we need to emulate govt/public ed with seniority based job protection and defined benefits. I know dozens of govt/ed workers, many in my family, and this recession was a relative breeze to them. A few young teachers got laid off, a police/fire training class was cancelled, some workers had to work a year or two more until retirement but not damage at all to 30 yr old plus govt employees. Engineers, IT, manufacturing, retail everyone should have the same protection and benefits, ironically the "servants" are in many cases doing better than their masters
2
Every generation of technologists has their favorite languages and platforms. Frankly, having seen many of these platforms, NONE of them are new in any special way. They are often a rehash of the same old principles. I often think that it is nothing more than a beauty contest: it is all based on nothing objective.
What is really that different between Java and C#? What is all that different between NoSQL and PL/SQL (tuples by any other name)? What is all that different among the half dozen different flavors of SQL script languages or between Perl and all of the script languages that came before it? What is that different about the idea of cloud technology (basically a large, intelligent and secure centralized store with dumb appliances at the network edges) compared to the old idea of mainframes except for the scale of the network and hardware?
Every generation always thinks it created something new when all it did was reinvent what already existed (or simply built another layer on top of what was already there) and repackaged it before selling it.
Perhaps people need to start asking the hard questions.
What is really that different between Java and C#? What is all that different between NoSQL and PL/SQL (tuples by any other name)? What is all that different among the half dozen different flavors of SQL script languages or between Perl and all of the script languages that came before it? What is that different about the idea of cloud technology (basically a large, intelligent and secure centralized store with dumb appliances at the network edges) compared to the old idea of mainframes except for the scale of the network and hardware?
Every generation always thinks it created something new when all it did was reinvent what already existed (or simply built another layer on top of what was already there) and repackaged it before selling it.
Perhaps people need to start asking the hard questions.
1
When I ran a 4 person consulting firm 10 years ago I learned a painful truth: Health insurance benefits are priced by average age of employee. For our tiny firm, hiring an older worker meant all of our premiums more than doubled as we averaged up into an older group rate.
It may be illegal to discriminate on age, but as a business person knowing this fiscal fact, how could I not choose to hire an equally qualified younger candidate?
It may be illegal to discriminate on age, but as a business person knowing this fiscal fact, how could I not choose to hire an equally qualified younger candidate?
72
Is this still true?
5
Another good reason for a single payer national health care system.
138
Thank you; had no idea.
Another strong reason for getting private insurers out of our health care.
But then, I'm thinking Medicare is available for those over 65 years of age. And still insurers charge more if the average age of workers rise? This sounds like a scam akin to robbery in broad daylight. For shame!
Another thought: using average rather than mean age (no double entendre intended here) allows extremes to skew the picture. If you average in a very old age, you get a higher number than if you use the mean (the age in which half of the group are younger and half are older.
Another strong reason for getting private insurers out of our health care.
But then, I'm thinking Medicare is available for those over 65 years of age. And still insurers charge more if the average age of workers rise? This sounds like a scam akin to robbery in broad daylight. For shame!
Another thought: using average rather than mean age (no double entendre intended here) allows extremes to skew the picture. If you average in a very old age, you get a higher number than if you use the mean (the age in which half of the group are younger and half are older.
25
Is there age discrimination against the over-55, non-retired worker? Of course. But the retired worker is another story. For instance, the dignified, well-groomed shuttle driver at my local auto dealership is 72 years old. Riding with him, I asked if he was working to supplement his income. He said that he was bored at home as a retiree. Then he admitted that he needed extra money to maintain his hobby... making long-distance overnight excursions on one of his three Harley Davidson motorcycles. "Gas, food, motels--all that takes money," he said. He complained about being forced to take taxable required minimum distributions from his 401(k), and had looked in vain for an investment that would allow him to keep the money tax-deferred because he didn't need it for income. Retirees aren't typically looking for a challenge and especially not the sort of high pressure that comes with any well-paid position. They want out of the rat race, but they do want meaningful activity that gets them out of the house. This article suggests that he and people like him wish they had more challenging, high-paying jobs. Not necessarily so.
27
One anecdote is not data.
37
Agree. I talked a few weeks ago with a fit, well-groomed 60-something former middle-manager at an automaker. He now drives a sedan car for a friend's limo business, catering to executives (vs wedding parties and the like) and loves it. Says it's flexible, provides pocket money, gets him out with like-minded intelligent retirees and he enjoys the conversations with his passengers.
Not everyone out there is scrimping along.
Not everyone out there is scrimping along.
3
I am in the article's demographic and have neither had, nor wanted "a job" in over a decade. For me, the so-called gig economy works well and is the natural extension of a lifetime of project based work. In this, being older I can manage longer periods of no work, and the time off is a nice reminder that while "retirement" can be pleasant, it is indeed "God's waiting room".
After a certain point in life any work can be rewarding, and necessary.
After a certain point in life any work can be rewarding, and necessary.
14
If the work is available, and you have been able to make a living from it, that's great. In my case, I spent 15+ years doing legal research and writing as an independent contractor, rather than trying to hold a full-time position as an attorney while raising children. After the recession sent droves of people into law school, expecting a high-paying position after graduation, it is now easy for law firms to find newly minted attorneys willing to do the same work for free, just so they can have some legal experience to put on their resumes. My brother holds a corporate finance position and has been complaining for years about how when employees leave or are let go, the remaining employees are expected to take on more work because the company will avoid hiring new staff at all costs. He has been working 60+ hours a week for a couple of decades now, and is looking forward to retirement. He is planning to volunteer, travel, read, spend time with friends . . . and does not consider any future paid work to be either necessary or rewarding!
5
There is also simple math. If there were enough jobs, then employers won't be able to discriminate. They will need all the workers available, regardless of age. The important part of this equation is to create enough jobs such that everyone who wants one can have one.
67
Have you heard of outsourcing and uncontrolled immigration? It is called globalization.
4
There over between 4 and 5 million unfilled positions today in America. Anyone who wants a job in America can have one--but the problem is they can only have the jobs they're qualified for.
1
Too many people want to good jobs. There will always be lots of competition for those, and employers will pick and chose among candidates, and hire the people they like best.
Hiring and training people takes a lot of time especially for a job that requires a specific skill. It's a fact that older people will likely not be at the company for 10 or more years to make that training pay off. I'm an older person and am active in my community but know that I could not do the jobs that I did when I was younger...the jobs that my college education prepared me for. That same education allows me to volunteer and share that experience in my community. If I had to work now, I'd be stuck and would definitely have to think outside the box for a job. Ageism certainly is a big part of our society but reality is also part of the equation. I am not the physical person I was many years ago.
16
You can't be serious; very few people remain at a job for very long, and a quick google search on job changing statistics confirm this. Nobody remains at a job for long, so the idea that the expectation of remaining for 10 years is ludicrous.
27
Umm, have you noticed how long most Millennial workers stay at jobs? The norm is to leave after just a few years. The reality is that an older worker, if hired, is more likely to remain in that position.
30
Speak for yourself. Many older citizens are healthier and in better shape than younger workers. Age is chronological, not biological.
9
Why would anyone want to hire an old person when society's attitudes and beliefs are so pejorative? Old people are "senior citizens", their senility assumed; they are considered "cute", childlike, and condescended to. This week on Facebook I came across an ad from GE for a new tech product. There was a picture of an old person with white hair and a sweetly soft face. The caption was something about "now you don't have to hire somebody like this."
Older people who I know are brilliant are condescended to like rather dullard children, by younger people who will never be half as sharp. Makes it difficult to want to hire them.
Older people who I know are brilliant are condescended to like rather dullard children, by younger people who will never be half as sharp. Makes it difficult to want to hire them.
104
Depends on what you would consider "old". A 60 year old and a 75 year old are both considered older workers but the 60 year may be more productive than many 40 year olds, while the 75 year old is very likely to be suffering from significant physical and mental decline.
10
Ah, your preconceptions reared its ugly head -"very likely to be..."; the same preconceptions employers make.
18
Many ignorant, lazy, arrogant American children are scared to death to work with anyone smarter, more experienced, and more knowledgeable than themselves, lest their own flaws be revealed.
Gotta backstab that old guy/gal quickly, lest they 'steal' your job!
Gotta backstab that old guy/gal quickly, lest they 'steal' your job!
9
This article does not mention the fact that older workers are displaced from the workplace because they get paid more. Younger workers are cheaper. It used to be that experience was a very valuable asset. Now profit margins are more important that efficiency. This was particularly true of education. The older the professor or teacher, they more valuable and respected they were. Students still believe and trust in this perspective. But administrators want the students to have fun and be happy with faculty closer to their age. Lawyers, engineers, and doctors with experience are also valuable as well. But they cost too much money.
112