Politicians lie? You're kidding?
29
I'm sorry Mr. Kristof, the lesser of two evils is still evil. There has to be a better alternative. I'm going to take a good look at Gary Johnson and Bill Weld, both former moderate Republican governors. If they look competent and don't have any history of scandal, I will probably vote for them. Ms. Clinton and Mr. Trump are both very unacceptable to me.
56
The ability of the mainstream media and liberals like Kristof to divert attention from Hillary's outright lies never ceases to amaze. Once described in the 90's as a "congenital liar" by William Safire (when The Times actually presented an opposing conservative viewpoint once in a while), Hillary Clinton has lied so many times that Democrats now accept her lies as commonplace .Hey, she's a Democrat, so she gets a pass. When you start your government life by claiming to "earn" $100,000 with a one year investment of $1000 in cattle futures and nobody blinks an eye, it's easy to continue to lie through your teeth. Hillary has perfected the art, and Democrats just say no big deal.
57
A deceptive comparison of two liars. I expect better from you, Mr. Kristof.
51
This column is more about the Times competing with social media in generating so called news stories that say absolutely nothing new or for that matter, are of any real value to the reader. What ever happened to investigative journalism? Spending more time and energy revealing more facts on Trump's business dealings and Clinton's foundation and Wall Street speeches would go a long way in properly vetting the two candidates for the American voter. With all the dog whistles being used in the last seven and a half years, you would think that one or two whistleblowers are out there to assist the fourth estate in getting to the facts. Anyone?
50
Clinton discussed executed Iranian nuclear scientist on email which was hacked reports senator Cotton. http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cotton-clinton-discussed-executed-iran...
29
Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, Nick. We will all have a good laugh on January 20.
37
Breaking news about the Iranian Nuclear Scientist who was executed by Iran show why Hillary is dangerous; his name was reportedly found in a leaked Hillary email.
36
I have never believed that Trump supporters are ignorant of his distortions. They are fully aware, and participate in his disinformation. Likewise, it seems clear to me, that Trump isn't even trying to convince people of his veracity. He plays with facts as if it were a game. He doesn't care if he is contradicted. He just changes his facts to suit the listener.
So Trump's "lies" aren't really lies. A lie, in contradicting a truth, tacitly acknowledges that truth exists. Trump is not a liar. He is a nihilist. His universe has no reason or order. It's only ruling principle is power. The terrifying thing, is that a sizable portion of the public, including politicians, buy into this world view.
So Trump's "lies" aren't really lies. A lie, in contradicting a truth, tacitly acknowledges that truth exists. Trump is not a liar. He is a nihilist. His universe has no reason or order. It's only ruling principle is power. The terrifying thing, is that a sizable portion of the public, including politicians, buy into this world view.
78
Hillary's lies were much more serious than Trumps and she should have been indited for them. Even FBI director Comey said she lied before the congress. It is very clear. He didn't want to be the one blamed for taking her out of the race. Why why why did the democrats nominate such a flawed character? She was so careless with security that she set up a private server And sent classified information that the FBI director said anyone should have known was classified. That coupled with her lies to the Bengazi families (several said she told the same incorrect story) make her unfit to be president. Then look at the questionable speeches she made and dealings of the Clinton foundation and again I ask...why is she the democratic nominee?
41
The difference between Clinton and Trump is that while Clinton's misstatements are within the normal range of a politician, Trump's lies are off the charts! That's not even taking into consideration his belief in conspiracy theories, his stance on NATO, and his racist statements against Mexicans and Muslims. Hillary is a highly qualified public servant (perhaps the most qualified) while Trump is the least qualified candidate ever!!!
103
when will people stop repeating the obviously false claim that trump is 'smart' - in any way. he. is as dumb as a houseplant, and like more ignorant. any success he's had, has come through bluffing - the only strategy he knows, habit]ving been trained i2n the art of the bluff by Joe Mccarthy's right hand man, the uniquely dewsp2icably Roy Cohen.
65
Ms. Clinton "fibs"??
She has repeatedly lied like a rug about the private, unsecure email server she set up to use to store and communicate classified information.
Ms. Clinton has most definitely damaged our national security and then repeated lied about it. If she didn't have a "D' after her name, she'd be wearing an orange jumpsuit in Leavenworth.
At worst, Trump's "lies" are on the order of Clinton taking sniper fire at Tuzla.
She has repeatedly lied like a rug about the private, unsecure email server she set up to use to store and communicate classified information.
Ms. Clinton has most definitely damaged our national security and then repeated lied about it. If she didn't have a "D' after her name, she'd be wearing an orange jumpsuit in Leavenworth.
At worst, Trump's "lies" are on the order of Clinton taking sniper fire at Tuzla.
41
I am tired of hearing about Hilary's faults. We should be talking about the positive things she stands for; for example: health care and making a better world for women and children. The list of good things she will accomplish is long.
Trump is only interested in moving this country back to darker times. The "good old days" were only good for selfish white guys.
Trump is only interested in moving this country back to darker times. The "good old days" were only good for selfish white guys.
137
Surely, Mr. Kristof, if FBI Director Comey believed Hillary Clinton had told the truth he would have said so. Instead, he said he had "no basis to believe" she lied. He was quite vocal in pointing out where she was not truthful in her statements outside the FBI hearing.
38
Throw in the chips Nick, Trump's lies never killed anyone, gave away national security secrets, or broke laws. Game set match.
44
These mendacity ratings are hardly cause for celebration for either candidate.
24
Tony Schwartz has recently claimed that he was the sole author of "The Art of the Deal," , not the "co-writer," and had even rejected Trump's suggested changes. I have been frustrated that this has received so little attention. Has Mr. Kristof studied and rejected Schwartz's claims, or is he unaware of them?
17
Trump is probably reading this and saying "Look, I won, I won! I told the most lies! When do I get my Purple Heart?"
62
Unfortunately, because most American media is now infotainment and no longer news, the only way one can get a real honest assessment about the honesty of these candidates is to somehow find an informed individual whom actually has no political axe to grind, granted, a difficult process. As with other American media, when the columnists at the NYT were falling over each other to see what Trump was going to say and do next while now tearing him down and at the same time endorsing Hillary early on in the game, I take ALL of these assessments with a total grain of salt.
13
When I opposed her Hillary Clinton's dissembling was reinforcing. Now that I support her it is painful. Yes, she has been vilified by right wingers. But why keep giving them ammunition? "Short circuited?" Please!I I want to reach into the screen, grab her shoulders and scream, "Just tell the truth!"
40
I'd point out that politicians twist, turn, dodge and sometimes lie for all sorts of reasons--just like every other adult does. The question is one of WHY they're doing it, and what the effects of the twisting, turning and so on happen to be.
A lot of this is inherent in the idea of being a politician: if you tell what you believe to be the truth and nothing but every single second, you do not get elected. Sometimes it'd just be bad manners; sometimes, you want to give people some room to vote for you; sometimes, voters are dumb and ignorant.
Some of it's necessary to keep necessary secrets, or to make internal politics possible. You can't get onna TV and tell people what you just found out in a CIA briefing; you can't call the next pol over a total liar and then cut a deal with him or her.
And sometimes, you're either thick as a brick, or covering up your bad behavior. Neither is okay--and then, you have to start asking just how bad it is.
So here's a piece of Truth: on balance, Hillary Clinton is a heckuva lot more knowledgeable and truthful. On balance, Benghazi and that server simply don't amount to much: the problems started years before, with our crummy government computers, and Congress' cutting security funding just because.
And on balance, Trump's nuts. The real question is whether he's lying, or actually believes the insane stuff he says.
A lot of this is inherent in the idea of being a politician: if you tell what you believe to be the truth and nothing but every single second, you do not get elected. Sometimes it'd just be bad manners; sometimes, you want to give people some room to vote for you; sometimes, voters are dumb and ignorant.
Some of it's necessary to keep necessary secrets, or to make internal politics possible. You can't get onna TV and tell people what you just found out in a CIA briefing; you can't call the next pol over a total liar and then cut a deal with him or her.
And sometimes, you're either thick as a brick, or covering up your bad behavior. Neither is okay--and then, you have to start asking just how bad it is.
So here's a piece of Truth: on balance, Hillary Clinton is a heckuva lot more knowledgeable and truthful. On balance, Benghazi and that server simply don't amount to much: the problems started years before, with our crummy government computers, and Congress' cutting security funding just because.
And on balance, Trump's nuts. The real question is whether he's lying, or actually believes the insane stuff he says.
70
Trump is mentally lazy. He possesses little knowledge or expertise. He shows little inclination to acquire any. Like the student who writes essays on books he does not read, he just makes up stuff. He plays to those who also have not “read the book.” He’s a gifted fabricator who needs no script in order to exploit the fantasies and prejudices of his audience.
There is no evidence that he can make high-level decisions. He’s indifferent to fact and reason. He resists the counsel and expertise of advisors. He has no awareness of his own incompetence.
His worst lie is the lie he tells himself: that he is fit to be President of the United States.
There is no evidence that he can make high-level decisions. He’s indifferent to fact and reason. He resists the counsel and expertise of advisors. He has no awareness of his own incompetence.
His worst lie is the lie he tells himself: that he is fit to be President of the United States.
111
Trump followers, when challenged, are averse to facts. They go with the "feelings". The GOP in general is averse to facts. Obama has achieved nearly all the "goals" that Romney promised at the end of his first "term" but ask any GOP candidate and they will point to the statistic of "how the country feels on where it is headed". There is an old saying: there are lies and lies and then there are statistics. In the GOP's case: there are statistics and statistics and then there are lies.
15
Interesting, with I guess the conclusion being Hillary aspires to have bigger, bolder, more dangerous lies ... But less frequently than trumps smaller ones.
She is a conundrum for sure ... I've never seen a more experienced and hard working candidate - but viewed overall, had such mediocre results.
She is a conundrum for sure ... I've never seen a more experienced and hard working candidate - but viewed overall, had such mediocre results.
6
This is what happens when you have the two most unlikable candidates running. It comes down to not who lies and who doesn't and why, but who's the worst liar. The defense for Clinton is that Trump lies more, so let's support her. After all her lies are a "fib," while his are "huge lie" territory.
That's all ya got? Not, hey, Hillary, he's so awful, you can stop lying now. You don't have to lie. You can stop now. Nicholas, be brave, suggest she stop telling "fibs." Instead, this column is the weakest defense yet of Clinton, and I've seen some pretty weak defenses of the New York Times' candidate.
That's all ya got? Not, hey, Hillary, he's so awful, you can stop lying now. You don't have to lie. You can stop now. Nicholas, be brave, suggest she stop telling "fibs." Instead, this column is the weakest defense yet of Clinton, and I've seen some pretty weak defenses of the New York Times' candidate.
26
You know the Orange Bully is lying because his lips are moving. At least with Clinton you can be sure that she knows how much she is hated by the other side, and she also knows that if she were to flat out lie like her opponent they would spread it like butter on toast from one side of the country to the other.
22
Trump's, the great negotiator, endgame is to get the billionaire Republicans to pay him a few billion dollars to withdraw. To paraphrase another politician, "It's bleeping gold!".
7
Mr. Kristof, please take a look at this YouTube report by columnist H.A.Goodman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXhF99iG7m4
Clinton as Secretary of State recognized in writing that Saudi Arabia that it is the biggest sponsor of Sunni terrorism around the world; then The Clinton Foundation took 10 million dollars from Saudi Arabia. Then there's the scandals with the weapons sale to Saudi Arabia she facilitated later.
How is she going to fight terrorism if she gets money from the biggest sponsor of terrorism and helps them get weapons?
Have you tried to interview Hillary about this "fib?"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXhF99iG7m4
Clinton as Secretary of State recognized in writing that Saudi Arabia that it is the biggest sponsor of Sunni terrorism around the world; then The Clinton Foundation took 10 million dollars from Saudi Arabia. Then there's the scandals with the weapons sale to Saudi Arabia she facilitated later.
How is she going to fight terrorism if she gets money from the biggest sponsor of terrorism and helps them get weapons?
Have you tried to interview Hillary about this "fib?"?
25
Equally incongruous are the statements of the Republican Party leaders and the Congressional leaders who believe that they will control Trump if he is elected president of the United States. Gentleman, you are fools. How can you even say such things, unless you yourselves are liars, or you live in a fantasy land. Everyone who knows Trump at all, says that he is a liar, and that his mendacity has no limits. Consequently, my question to you Republican Party leaders, is why do you want to subject the nation to this sort of political risk. You can no more control Trump than trying to stop the Sun from rising in the morning. He will tell you one thing to your face and do the exact opposite.
13
That does it! Trump is obviously more qualified for president. Thanks for highlighting this important qualification.
3
Nick, agree with your general argument-- and you've assembled several compelling examples of Trump's blatant lying.
Clinton is more a phrase parser and dissembler on a small set of events; Trump is a serial liar, who distorts, fabricated, and even blatantly contradicts himself.
However, you keep using the Fact Checkers' findings as evidence, when you know they are not! You wrote (and you've written this before) ("self-plagiarism" anyone?!):
"One metric comes from independent fact-checking websites. As of Friday, PolitiFact had found 27 percent of Clinton’s statements that it had looked into were mostly false or worse, compared with 70 percent of Trump’s. It said 2 percent of Clinton’s statements it had reviewed were egregious “pants on fire” lies, compared with 19 percent of Trump’s. So Trump has nine times the share of flat-out lies as Clinton."
You know these findings are a result of selection bias-- how are the statements selected, who's picking them, how many, on what grounds, etc.
What's needed is a systematic analysis of, say, the last 5 speeches-- or, last three debates-- comparing Clinton and Trump's remarks.
Or, given that The Donald tweets, let's take the last 10,000 words uttered by the two candidates and determine what percentage of lies they made.
While I'm confident that the results would be similar to the data you presented, to state the fact checkers' findings WITHOUT ANY qualifications or mention of selection and sampling bias is irresponsible!
Clinton is more a phrase parser and dissembler on a small set of events; Trump is a serial liar, who distorts, fabricated, and even blatantly contradicts himself.
However, you keep using the Fact Checkers' findings as evidence, when you know they are not! You wrote (and you've written this before) ("self-plagiarism" anyone?!):
"One metric comes from independent fact-checking websites. As of Friday, PolitiFact had found 27 percent of Clinton’s statements that it had looked into were mostly false or worse, compared with 70 percent of Trump’s. It said 2 percent of Clinton’s statements it had reviewed were egregious “pants on fire” lies, compared with 19 percent of Trump’s. So Trump has nine times the share of flat-out lies as Clinton."
You know these findings are a result of selection bias-- how are the statements selected, who's picking them, how many, on what grounds, etc.
What's needed is a systematic analysis of, say, the last 5 speeches-- or, last three debates-- comparing Clinton and Trump's remarks.
Or, given that The Donald tweets, let's take the last 10,000 words uttered by the two candidates and determine what percentage of lies they made.
While I'm confident that the results would be similar to the data you presented, to state the fact checkers' findings WITHOUT ANY qualifications or mention of selection and sampling bias is irresponsible!
6
We should not forget his assertions that he did not know who the Trump supporter and ex Klan leader David Duke was even though Trump made several references to Duke in the past which have been recorded that show he absolutely knew who he was.
22
Clinton needs to learn the first law of holes: When you are in one, stop digging.
18
So, 70% of Trump's statements are lies. Hey – nobody's perfect!
8
Mr. Kristof:
agreed:
DJY is pathologically dishonest - - - nothing he states can be trusted and truth is a concept that is beyond his comprehension.
HRC is a pathological liar - - - she will deliberately and constructively attempt to deceive and mislead, all the while convincing herself that she is acting honest.
the second is mostly an embarrassment,
the first, however, is life threatening.
an exceptionally large voter turnout will return DJT to his comfy business-world of the consummate con-artist.
6
Glad to see steady someone is caring to characterize Hillary's statements. At worst they sound like half truths, just your garden variety politician - speak. It seems like Goebels' dictum about repeat a lie a thousand times and it becomes the truth seems to have become true against Hillary. She is being tarred with behavior and blown out if all proportion though simply repeating without substantiation .
15
The man's attention span is stretched at 5 minutes. How can he possibly remember what he said an hour ago? I abhor his mendacity, but his complete lack of concentration gives me cold sweats.
20
A Trump supporter said to me recently, "C'mon. Y'know he [the Comb-over Kid] doesn't mean half that stuff he sez. He's just saying that to tick off the liberals." Hillary's statements that appear as off the mark are over-inflated by he right-wing cabal that has long focused on her and Bill. Why haven't these highly paid attorneys and investigators ever found anything of substance to nail her with? The so-called "lies to congress and to the American people" pale in the shadow of the constant mendacity of Dishonest "Kid Coif" Donald Trump.
23
So, crooked Hilary is not any different from the average politician in telling "fibs". She exaggerates some but seems to not outright lie. This is similar to most of us retelling a story or trying to keep the facts straight. Then there are the pathological liars. They live in a world of make up ideas and facts that best serve their purpose. They don't usually explore the facts since their mind is already firm on what it is they want to believe. These are people who are disconnected from the real world. Dangerous folks .
8
I suppose we can look forward at some point in the campaign to Trump claiming that, because he is so much better at lying, therefore he is more qualified to deal with dubious heads of state.
3
I understand Webster is introducing a new dictionary specifically for Democrats, Radical Islam will now be know as a mental disorder, and lying to the American public is now to be know as "short circuited." Webster is asking for the public help in adding new definitions
6
Hillary Clinton has always had a propensity for a slightly tin ear. On the kurflufel about the emails she is like a kid caught with her hands in a cookie jay who says, Not me. That said the comparison with Boasting Lying Donald makes her look like a real piker.
Neither one of them know when to shut up...but once again, what a difference. One attacks a Muslim Gold Star family and like a pitfall/bulldog won't quit. The other can't say; "it was a stupid mistake and everything than can be said about it, has been said already." Nor can she simply say: "Hey I am in the dark ages when it comes to the digital age. I was attached to my blackberry, which I know how to use and couldn't use it on the State Dept. servers." Basta. End of story.
As for the rest of us. Keep your eye on the greater picture. There is NO comparison.
Neither one of them know when to shut up...but once again, what a difference. One attacks a Muslim Gold Star family and like a pitfall/bulldog won't quit. The other can't say; "it was a stupid mistake and everything than can be said about it, has been said already." Nor can she simply say: "Hey I am in the dark ages when it comes to the digital age. I was attached to my blackberry, which I know how to use and couldn't use it on the State Dept. servers." Basta. End of story.
As for the rest of us. Keep your eye on the greater picture. There is NO comparison.
17
I thought that FBI investigation of Hillary Clinton’s email issues was Mind-Boggling. Thirty thousand hours of FBI investigators' time were expended and covered the entire period of her primary contests with Bernie Sanders. At the very end, Hillary Clinton was called into FBI offices to answer questions. She was not put under oath, the session was not videotaped or audiotaped, and there was not even a transcript made of the question and answer session. And, the FBI Director apparently was too busy doing other things to attend the session.
Suddenly, after the investigation up to that point had moved at a fossilized snail's pace, the FBI was able to compare her hearsay testimony OVER THAT WEEKEND with many months of gathered investigative material and reach the conclusion that there was not enough evidence to prosecute. FBI Director Comey announced the results on the following Tuesday. This cleared Hillary Clinton of criminal prosecution in time for the Democratic Party convention later in the month.
Previously, the State Department's IG report had disclosed that Hillary Clinton's repeated public statements that State Department administrators had authorized her use of a private server were just repeated lies. (Apparently, this authorization issue was outside the scope of the FBI investigation. Mind boggling.) In addition, two State Department employees had questioned their superiors as to why Secretary Clinton was able to do this. They were told not to ask again.
Suddenly, after the investigation up to that point had moved at a fossilized snail's pace, the FBI was able to compare her hearsay testimony OVER THAT WEEKEND with many months of gathered investigative material and reach the conclusion that there was not enough evidence to prosecute. FBI Director Comey announced the results on the following Tuesday. This cleared Hillary Clinton of criminal prosecution in time for the Democratic Party convention later in the month.
Previously, the State Department's IG report had disclosed that Hillary Clinton's repeated public statements that State Department administrators had authorized her use of a private server were just repeated lies. (Apparently, this authorization issue was outside the scope of the FBI investigation. Mind boggling.) In addition, two State Department employees had questioned their superiors as to why Secretary Clinton was able to do this. They were told not to ask again.
18
The man is a pathological liar. His lies get bigger and bigger with each retelling. Pretty soon he's going to fire God and replace him (or her) with himself.
We expect all politicians to lie somewhat- but with Trump it is so huge and often that it is off the charts. Along with all his other 'attributes,' the man is a true menace.
Many I'm a cynic, but I don't expect our politicians to be pure as the driven snow, but I don't want them to be bordering (what I think) is mental illness.
We expect all politicians to lie somewhat- but with Trump it is so huge and often that it is off the charts. Along with all his other 'attributes,' the man is a true menace.
Many I'm a cynic, but I don't expect our politicians to be pure as the driven snow, but I don't want them to be bordering (what I think) is mental illness.
15
Mr. Kristof, a fib is when you deny eating the last piece of pie. A lie is when you vote for an illegal war based on phony information and sugar coat it with "protecting America." Big difference.
16
HRC doesn't need to lie is the problem: she is simply sly, clever, and a smart weasel, smarter than you are. So she lies.
Could have been clear about Bosnia but chose to embellish; the truth would have been as good to show her determination and guts.
Etc. In other words, we all get Trump is a blowhard. But HRC is full of guile which might be worse because it's harder to see coming.
Could have been clear about Bosnia but chose to embellish; the truth would have been as good to show her determination and guts.
Etc. In other words, we all get Trump is a blowhard. But HRC is full of guile which might be worse because it's harder to see coming.
6
Trump University.
Lying is one thing but this pre-meditated scam was a massive fraud carried out with Trump's full knowledge, blessing and participation.
A phony institution designed to fool people into thinking they would receive an education in real estate techniques that would apply in real world situations.
Instead, it was just a series of come ons to get people's money. High pressure bull and upselling to deceive.
A billionaire ripping off the little guy. How gross is that!
Trump will be on trial this Fall for the class action lawsuit by thousands. Fraud and racketeering charges!
Watch this - but not if you've eaten in the last hour.
Pretty nauseating to see a Trump lieutenant lie about ripping people off.
That was Trump University. $30 million taken from people illegally.
The man very likely is a criminal - fraud is a serious crime.
https://youtu.be/84lUQFvHeDk
And here is another from late night TV.
https://youtu.be/5brIpJNaHRY
Lying is one thing but this pre-meditated scam was a massive fraud carried out with Trump's full knowledge, blessing and participation.
A phony institution designed to fool people into thinking they would receive an education in real estate techniques that would apply in real world situations.
Instead, it was just a series of come ons to get people's money. High pressure bull and upselling to deceive.
A billionaire ripping off the little guy. How gross is that!
Trump will be on trial this Fall for the class action lawsuit by thousands. Fraud and racketeering charges!
Watch this - but not if you've eaten in the last hour.
Pretty nauseating to see a Trump lieutenant lie about ripping people off.
That was Trump University. $30 million taken from people illegally.
The man very likely is a criminal - fraud is a serious crime.
https://youtu.be/84lUQFvHeDk
And here is another from late night TV.
https://youtu.be/5brIpJNaHRY
17
Facts and truth mean nothing any longer to many voters. Makes me wonder if they ever did.
5
Donald Trump lied to the American people saying he would get rid of the terrible trade agreements the U.S. established with other nations; bring “jobs” back to the people and “make America great again.” He better read Articles 1 and 2, Section II that gives Congress the full power “To regulate Commerce with foreign nations, and among the several States, and with The Indian Tribes.”
He doesn’t have the capacity, neither the experience nor posture to obtain a successful political trajectory when making decisions domestically and internationally. Since he doesn’t know about strategy or on how to preserve the lives of our military because he’s never been there or done that; he talks about sending 20 to 20 troops to fight Isis. He’s against the will of the American people.
I’ll take Hillary Clinton any day at any time. She's super qualified to do the job.
He doesn’t have the capacity, neither the experience nor posture to obtain a successful political trajectory when making decisions domestically and internationally. Since he doesn’t know about strategy or on how to preserve the lives of our military because he’s never been there or done that; he talks about sending 20 to 20 troops to fight Isis. He’s against the will of the American people.
I’ll take Hillary Clinton any day at any time. She's super qualified to do the job.
21
From the moment a beautiful young, former governor's wife, successful attorney, and supporter of her spouse's run for the presidency, took issue with a suggestion she was exceeding the bounds of campaigning with her tendency to actually talk about policy, not her favorite porridge, the conservatives––like the apes in the zoos––started throwing their feces at her. Imagine! Suffering over 20 years of being a target of such hate, fear, and duplicity. That'd make me cautious. But I'd have to ask myself, "Could I stick with it?" Why does she? What does that say about her? What kind of convictions drive this individual? One couldn't live her life and not always––always––be on the go, and on guard.
It surely ain't money or power. It has to be something deeper. The propagandists have beat hell outta this woman, but she just keeps going. She operates in a man's world using male rules, and they vilify her. Lord, have mercy.
It surely ain't money or power. It has to be something deeper. The propagandists have beat hell outta this woman, but she just keeps going. She operates in a man's world using male rules, and they vilify her. Lord, have mercy.
33
The observation that both Trump and Clinton are truth-challenged should surprise no one, and obviously Trump's lies outrank Clintons by far. However. Clinton is getting shrewder about avoiding getting caught in a lie or gross exaggeration, by simply not answering questions, and using vague language. She can't lie as long as she avoids the issues. Point: She has not had a press conference in how many days? Right -- some of those pesky journalists might ask tough questions.
10
Hillary Clinton tells little old white lady lies.
Donald Trump tells big old white man tales.
The truth is lost in lies and tales.
Size does not matter.
Donald Trump tells big old white man tales.
The truth is lost in lies and tales.
Size does not matter.
5
if the media had not covered up for Hillary all these years, the Democrats might have nominated a good candidate.
17
So who checks the fact checkers? Why is the media spinning all of this? From the hearing transcript:
Lieu: “Of those three emails, one hundredth of one percent of 30,000, they bore these tiny little classified markings, which is as you described, a “c” with parentheses, correct?”
Comey: “Correct.”
Lieu: “So it is possible that a busy person who has sent or received over 30,000 emails might have just missed this marking of a “c” with parentheses. It is possible, correct?”
FBI Director James Comey: “Correct.”
Comey: “We have no basis to conclude she lied to the FBI.”
So only 3 were marked classified and the markings were easily overlooked. Sec. Clinton was speaking in good faith when she said none of her emails were marked classified.
The State Department clarified those emails which were not really classified:
"It appears that those...that those markings were a human error. They didn’t need to be there. Because once the secretary had decided to make the call, the process is then to move the call sheet, to change its markings to unclassified and deliver it to the secretary in a form that he or she can use," Kirby said. "And best we can tell on these occasions, the markings — the confidential markings — was simply human error. Because the decision had already been made, they didn’t need to be made on the email."
This is like the witch test where a woman would be tied up, tossed into the water, and then after she drowns declared not a witch.
Lieu: “Of those three emails, one hundredth of one percent of 30,000, they bore these tiny little classified markings, which is as you described, a “c” with parentheses, correct?”
Comey: “Correct.”
Lieu: “So it is possible that a busy person who has sent or received over 30,000 emails might have just missed this marking of a “c” with parentheses. It is possible, correct?”
FBI Director James Comey: “Correct.”
Comey: “We have no basis to conclude she lied to the FBI.”
So only 3 were marked classified and the markings were easily overlooked. Sec. Clinton was speaking in good faith when she said none of her emails were marked classified.
The State Department clarified those emails which were not really classified:
"It appears that those...that those markings were a human error. They didn’t need to be there. Because once the secretary had decided to make the call, the process is then to move the call sheet, to change its markings to unclassified and deliver it to the secretary in a form that he or she can use," Kirby said. "And best we can tell on these occasions, the markings — the confidential markings — was simply human error. Because the decision had already been made, they didn’t need to be made on the email."
This is like the witch test where a woman would be tied up, tossed into the water, and then after she drowns declared not a witch.
32
I am sick of false equivalency.
Please wake up , Trump supporters. Please!
Please wake up , Trump supporters. Please!
22
My unit, deployed to Bosnia following the Dayton Peace Treaty, was returning from a patrol. With us was the outgoing Battalion Commander whom we were delivering to Eagle Base at Tuzla airfield. We were met at the back entrance by a group of Secret Service agents who denied us entry due to Mrs. Clinton's presence. We didn't even know she was there and could have cared less. We had been up for 18 hours and just wanted to get back to our FOB. Nothing ever came over the SINGARS radios in our Humvee's about sniper or mortar fire. The Colonel hopped out of my vehicle, saluted us and said he would wait there until the show was over. Good man. Ms. Clinton told a fib as far as I am concerned. My deepest concern is what happened in Benghazi and if in fact there is a cover up and the truth is being swept under the rug. If there was ever an example of an egregious intelligence failure the deaths of Ambassador Stevens and his security detail would be one. When a ship goes down the boat's Captain bears all responsibility regardless of who was at fault. Ms. Clinton should have done the honorable thing and stepped down. She would make a great substitute teacher.
The Donald on the other hand, is a dangerous man and a compulsive liar. He should return that Purple Heart and apologize for having accepted it. I should mention that I voted by absentee ballot to re-elect Bill Clinton to a second term while in Bosnia. No regrets there.
The Donald on the other hand, is a dangerous man and a compulsive liar. He should return that Purple Heart and apologize for having accepted it. I should mention that I voted by absentee ballot to re-elect Bill Clinton to a second term while in Bosnia. No regrets there.
9
"There are three kinds of falsehoods, lies, damned lies and statistics" (1st Earl of Balfour, 1892). In 2016 this is fulfilled, respectively, by Hillary, Trump and any numbers Trump quotes to boost his TV ratings and rankings in national polls.
1
Mr. Kristof you should be more careful not to mislead your readers in a column about lies and fibs.
You leave the impression that Director Comey judged Hillary Clinton's answers as untruthful and he did not do that.
Regarding the use of the email server, if only 3 out 30,000 emails had any classification markings and those could have easily been missed isn't it reasonable to conclude that her statements on this matter are at least 99.99% accurate?
You leave the impression that Director Comey judged Hillary Clinton's answers as untruthful and he did not do that.
Regarding the use of the email server, if only 3 out 30,000 emails had any classification markings and those could have easily been missed isn't it reasonable to conclude that her statements on this matter are at least 99.99% accurate?
22
Thank you for this much needed perspective, but when you write that FBI director Comey "judged" Sec Clinton's answers, you contribute to the public's serious misunderstanding about Comey's role. He is not judge or jury. He isn't even a prosecutor. His job was simply to gather evidence of wrongdoing, and he found no reasonable basis for charges. The media has handed Trump a gift and done the public and rule of law a great disservice by elevating Comey's unprofessional gratuitous smear of Sec. Clinton to the status of a judge handing down a guilty verdict after a trial. The chants of "Lock Her Up" are a disgrace.
20
Sad to see Kristof's verbal contortions-what a waste of of words and space- as he attempts to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Suffice it to say that Hillary is terrible but Trump is worse so the choice is obvious. Instead, lies become fibs, or, as in Amy Chozick's article in yesterday's NYT "mischaracterizations". Pretty soon we'll be hearing about 'terminological inexactitudes. Clinton is as least smart and bold and brassy enough to avoid press conferences where she would not have satisfactory answers to some questions. Trump, on the other hand, foolishly thinks that attacking the questioner will be satisfactory.
Aside from her true sycophants the rest of us will undoubtedly face 4 or 8 years
more unpleasant years. Clinton seems an interesting combination of Imelda Marcos, Evita Peron, Richard Nixon , and Bill Clinton, + a strong dose of advocacy for women's and children's rights.As always the problem is the corruption by or abuse of power.
Aside from her true sycophants the rest of us will undoubtedly face 4 or 8 years
more unpleasant years. Clinton seems an interesting combination of Imelda Marcos, Evita Peron, Richard Nixon , and Bill Clinton, + a strong dose of advocacy for women's and children's rights.As always the problem is the corruption by or abuse of power.
11
Doubtless, this is one of Nicholas Kristof's more disappointing columns. It borders on pathetic. The problem isn't that Hillary fibs like other politicians, it is how she goes about her business. Take the "Travelgate" scandal. Upon entering the White House Hillary not only fired the presiding travel staff to provide jobs for her friends. She used the FBI to investigate the travel staffers in order to besmirch their reputations as reason for their removal. When this outrage came to light, via a White House memo, Hillary denied everything. It was was clear she was behind the decision to fire the staffers in the famous "hell to pay" memo. Of course "Travelgate" developed into "Filegate" with the Clinton White House using the FBI to obtain files on various people, opponents. Hillary has proven through the years she is dangerous to democracy. She truly believes she is above the law. It is scary to think she will be back in the White House soon.
17
Kristof has a point; Trump lies about the number of rooms in Trump Tower; Hillary lies about national security. Honestly, there is no comparison. Well said.
14
Kind of reminds me of that scene in the remake of "Ocean's Eleven" in which Danny Ocean (George Clooney) says: "I only lied about being a thief."
3
What a sad discussion.
10
"Trump used to boast that he and Vladimir Putin were buddies — “I spoke directly and indirectly with President Putin” — only to acknowledge later that they had never met or spoken."
What fifth grade stuff! That sounds like the really unpopular kid and his wishful thinking about the most popular person in the school.
What fifth grade stuff! That sounds like the really unpopular kid and his wishful thinking about the most popular person in the school.
4
Such behavior by Trump is not surprising at all. Considering that he is a psychologically disordered person (called 'borderline personality disorder')
he fits the definition for the most part: "a person who has a pattern of unstable relationships, poor sense of self and volatile emotions, often very rash, impulsive and is a dangerous decision maker. " He lacks empathy, toward others is deceptive in dealing with others, is self-aggrandizing. He imagines a close relationship with Putin but has never met or studied Putin's behaviors yet claims the USA is in danger from Russian and Chinese and ISIS aggression. He does not want to BE president, he only want to win it, like a casino property, and then let it fall into bankruptcy.
he fits the definition for the most part: "a person who has a pattern of unstable relationships, poor sense of self and volatile emotions, often very rash, impulsive and is a dangerous decision maker. " He lacks empathy, toward others is deceptive in dealing with others, is self-aggrandizing. He imagines a close relationship with Putin but has never met or studied Putin's behaviors yet claims the USA is in danger from Russian and Chinese and ISIS aggression. He does not want to BE president, he only want to win it, like a casino property, and then let it fall into bankruptcy.
18
The difference in dishonesty is staggering. It's not just lies, but actions.
Clinton has lied repeatedly since the discovery of her secret email servers, changing her stories to divert as new facts became known. There is no reason for any gov't official to divert communications from proper channels to their own. Or obstruct evidence.
She's lying abut the TPP and other items on the "most progressive platform" since it is really just lip service to sway voters. If you haven't caught it, this is why when Bernie Sanders speaks of Clinton he only states that Clinton "understands" these issues, not that she has promised to actually do anything.
If you think that while DNC was rigging the election to favor Clinton, and she knew nothing about it (with her previous campaign chair heading the DNC, no less), then you know less about politics than you imagine. By the way, many commenters have stated why not favor the person who's been a declared Democrat instead of an independent, but this conveniently ignores that the DNC also was working against the other early entrants like Webb. And having superdelegates committing before anyone else considered running, like Biden, to dissuade others from entering the race.
Where's those transcripts? What's the excuse now? Waiting for Trump to show his taxes?
Trump is mostly full of over-exaggeration. His dishonestly has been words, not actions.
Clinton has lied repeatedly since the discovery of her secret email servers, changing her stories to divert as new facts became known. There is no reason for any gov't official to divert communications from proper channels to their own. Or obstruct evidence.
She's lying abut the TPP and other items on the "most progressive platform" since it is really just lip service to sway voters. If you haven't caught it, this is why when Bernie Sanders speaks of Clinton he only states that Clinton "understands" these issues, not that she has promised to actually do anything.
If you think that while DNC was rigging the election to favor Clinton, and she knew nothing about it (with her previous campaign chair heading the DNC, no less), then you know less about politics than you imagine. By the way, many commenters have stated why not favor the person who's been a declared Democrat instead of an independent, but this conveniently ignores that the DNC also was working against the other early entrants like Webb. And having superdelegates committing before anyone else considered running, like Biden, to dissuade others from entering the race.
Where's those transcripts? What's the excuse now? Waiting for Trump to show his taxes?
Trump is mostly full of over-exaggeration. His dishonestly has been words, not actions.
11
You can't argue with a sick mind.
1
So no matter who wins in November, the next President of the United States is s proven liar.
9
I don't remember any so called lies of Mr. Trump let alone a policy he supported, ended in the deaths of not just 4 Americans but hundreds of thousands of dead Libyans and Syrians. While I am sure there are some inaccuracies in the Clinton Cash movie, where there is smoke there is fire.
12
I read where Hillary has had the most negative press coverage of all 2016 candidates. Almost every article in the press or media story on Clinton, the phrase "flawed". "unlikable", "untrustworthy" is brought up. Then the polls reflecting this are repeated daily. No wonder it's ingrained in the psych of the American public. You wouldn't know that she is the most qualified person to run for office in maybe forever or that she has been ranked as one of the most liberal Senators, or voted with Bernie 93% of the time or that she is very popular among her peers and has retained loyal staffers for life. I think the fault for this lies with the press who don't like Hillary because she's not the shinny new object they love to follow. Thanks Nicholas.
46
I don't dispute the thesis or the conclusion, but it's silly to claim that Politifact results indicate who is the bigger liar. Since Politifact doesn't review every statement made, it can select the most statements most likely to be false, even if not intentionally. In other words, the sampling is not scientific, therefore, one cannot conclude that the percentage of statements found to be false is meaningful relative to the statements of somebody else.
4
Your defense of Hillary is Trump's worse. Ok, Trump's worse. Suppose I concede that from the start. I won't be voting for him.
So what? We should vote for Hillary? As best we can tell, Trump did not share state secrets on an illegal email server (Senator Tom Cotton said today that emails on that server mentioned a U.S. source in Iran who was subsequently executed). As best as we can tell, Trump did not rig the primary contest using the RNC as his personal support system, like Hillary did with the DNC. So far as we know, Trump has not sought to punish people who were sexually abused by his spouse, as Hillary did.
Your problem, Mr. Kristof, is that since Hillary has no accomplishments to speak of after years in office, we are supposed to be voting for HER, the seasoned, prepared politician. You conclude that, yes she lies, but she's not as big a liar as Trump.
Not good enough.
So what? We should vote for Hillary? As best we can tell, Trump did not share state secrets on an illegal email server (Senator Tom Cotton said today that emails on that server mentioned a U.S. source in Iran who was subsequently executed). As best as we can tell, Trump did not rig the primary contest using the RNC as his personal support system, like Hillary did with the DNC. So far as we know, Trump has not sought to punish people who were sexually abused by his spouse, as Hillary did.
Your problem, Mr. Kristof, is that since Hillary has no accomplishments to speak of after years in office, we are supposed to be voting for HER, the seasoned, prepared politician. You conclude that, yes she lies, but she's not as big a liar as Trump.
Not good enough.
15
"Hillary has no accomplishments to speak of after years in office."
Preposterous. Hillary is easily the most qualified candidate for the office of president in a hundred years. She single-handedly redefined the position of First Lady, changing it from being just a symbolic figurehead to an important policy-defining position. She was a successful and popular Senator, and was an extremely capable Secretary of State. She has essentially been in training to become head of state for 30 years. You are free to criticize her for other reasons, but to dispute her qualifications is absolutely absurd.
Preposterous. Hillary is easily the most qualified candidate for the office of president in a hundred years. She single-handedly redefined the position of First Lady, changing it from being just a symbolic figurehead to an important policy-defining position. She was a successful and popular Senator, and was an extremely capable Secretary of State. She has essentially been in training to become head of state for 30 years. You are free to criticize her for other reasons, but to dispute her qualifications is absolutely absurd.
46
Isn't the willingness of the press, with notable exceptions, to continue the narrative of his and her lies as if they were comparable an example of the kind of "political correctness" that right wingers pretend is an actual threat? Perhaps bending so far over backwards to achieve "balance" is not exhibiting fairness of any recognizable variety, particularly in an era when "political correctness" might more accurately be described as "respectful", "humane" and "tolerant".
I understand that it's difficult to find Trump surrogates that appear to be capable of defending him without making her molehills into mountains, but does anyone think that Roger Stone is a credible voice who deserves more than a soundbite, if that? Just because delusional, naive, conspiracy theorists and mendacious people exist and in larger numbers than one would expect, is it really helpful to enable them? Perhaps if the Republican party had nipped that particularly vulnerable and incoherently angry portion of their base at the outset, schooled them so to speak, they wouldn't be faced with the situation they find themselves in today, criticizing but supporting the most unqualified, uninformed and mendacious candidate in modern history -- even Nixon got two out of the three adjectives correctly even if his madness trumped Trump's as Shakespearean versus reality tv soap opera.
I understand that it's difficult to find Trump surrogates that appear to be capable of defending him without making her molehills into mountains, but does anyone think that Roger Stone is a credible voice who deserves more than a soundbite, if that? Just because delusional, naive, conspiracy theorists and mendacious people exist and in larger numbers than one would expect, is it really helpful to enable them? Perhaps if the Republican party had nipped that particularly vulnerable and incoherently angry portion of their base at the outset, schooled them so to speak, they wouldn't be faced with the situation they find themselves in today, criticizing but supporting the most unqualified, uninformed and mendacious candidate in modern history -- even Nixon got two out of the three adjectives correctly even if his madness trumped Trump's as Shakespearean versus reality tv soap opera.
23
Trump is a life-long salesman. He thinks in puffery. Clinton is much more calculating and her 16% rate for now far outweighs Trump's constant self-hype. The sad thing in this is that we have two people who in the end are not suited to the job they are pursuing, and the electorate is so hide-bound and the major parties are too entrenched to lose. One of them will make it. Neither should.
6
History will show that no single politician in modern times has had more massive scrutiny focused on more trivial issues than the Hillary. The scandal hungry press repeatedly falls head over heels into this endless, right-wing conspiracy trap. Republican led exaggeration of Clinton missteps, both real and imagined, has no historical precedent. Firing some low level, travel office staffers warrants a massive investigation and years of press scrutiny? A personal, consensual affair is somehow a national crisis? More recently, an unfortunate tragedy in an isolated, unstable country, brings accusations that Hillary should have personally called Superman to magically swoop in and save everyone. Nine investigations later, the use of personal email for work (an admitted mistake) is distorted by republicans into the crime of the century. Innuendo is openly embraced and promoted by today's financially driven media conglomerates. The right-wing knows how to play into this weakness well. When you have 24 hours of cable news-talk to fill, along with billion dollar websites hungry for eyeballs, scandal always rules the day. You milk them for as long as viewers can stand it. When you stand up anything Clinton against the secret, illegally funded war created by team Reagan; or the deadly, trillion dollar Iraq mistake made by team Bush; the level of banal triviality of any one (or all) of these so called Clinton "scandals", becomes abundantly clear.
68
I am not a Hillary fan. I volunteered for Bernie, mostly because I don't believe in political dynasties and the idea of another Clinton presidency with the Republicans investigating every little thing including previous investigations (that one's already true) makes me tired. Unfair to Sec Clinton in that it's not her fault that the Republicans are fixated on her, but nonetheless the way I feel.
I read an essay a few weeks ago by a woman who didn't like Hillary and decided to read the 30,000 + emails that were made public. To her surprise, what she found was a complicated human being yes, but also a kind and very intelligent woman who cared about others. Someone who bears no semblance to the caricature that the press and the Republican party uses to denigrate her. She also discovered that many of the phrases used so often about Sec. Clinton were introduced by the right wing talk radio community.
Even here, Mr. Kristof can't seem to help himself.
Frankly I find the whole email "scandal" ridiculous. The woman isn't tech savvy. She's admitted she made a mistake. Can we please move on? The idea there's even a choice this year is also ridiculous. Trump cannot be our President. Period. And voting for Jill Stein is a vote for Trump. Period. If you care about the Supreme Court and your children or friends. You must vote for Hillary Clinton. Period.
I read an essay a few weeks ago by a woman who didn't like Hillary and decided to read the 30,000 + emails that were made public. To her surprise, what she found was a complicated human being yes, but also a kind and very intelligent woman who cared about others. Someone who bears no semblance to the caricature that the press and the Republican party uses to denigrate her. She also discovered that many of the phrases used so often about Sec. Clinton were introduced by the right wing talk radio community.
Even here, Mr. Kristof can't seem to help himself.
Frankly I find the whole email "scandal" ridiculous. The woman isn't tech savvy. She's admitted she made a mistake. Can we please move on? The idea there's even a choice this year is also ridiculous. Trump cannot be our President. Period. And voting for Jill Stein is a vote for Trump. Period. If you care about the Supreme Court and your children or friends. You must vote for Hillary Clinton. Period.
97
Exactly right. I also would have preferred someone other than another Clinton. But she's certainly qualified and as trustworthy if not more so than most other politicians.
Most of the stuff thrown at her even by so called "balanced pundits" not speak of the rabid Bernie Bros is just recycling of right-wing smears that don't hold up to any scrutiny. They claim to be outraged by Trump but they contribute to a climate that allows someone like Trump to rise.
40% or so of the voters will never vote for a Clinton or Democrat. They slimed Kerry, they slimed Obama and now they are sliming Clinton. No surprise there. But it's those that supposedly are balanced or those so called progressives that fall for these lies that are the most annoying.
Most of the stuff thrown at her even by so called "balanced pundits" not speak of the rabid Bernie Bros is just recycling of right-wing smears that don't hold up to any scrutiny. They claim to be outraged by Trump but they contribute to a climate that allows someone like Trump to rise.
40% or so of the voters will never vote for a Clinton or Democrat. They slimed Kerry, they slimed Obama and now they are sliming Clinton. No surprise there. But it's those that supposedly are balanced or those so called progressives that fall for these lies that are the most annoying.
25
To all those "they're both bad" people out there, they're not both bad.
Hillary Clinton has been ruthlessly pursued by the Right Wing since her husband was elected president twenty-four years ago. She is truly the victim of a vast, right-wing conspiracy. And yet she doesn't mention it, doesn't cry about how unfair it all is, how Benghazi was simply not her fault, how she was hounded into using an e-mail server that she alone controlled so detractors couldn't use her private correspondence against her, how powerful business interests colluded to smear her name when she spearheaded a proposal for what America desperately needs, even after Obamacare--National Health.
Hillary has spent her entire life working in public service, with (for the last quarter century) every word and action she's taken being carefully picked over for anything that might make her look bad. She is not a criminal (I've heard this from people I know to be smart!). She is a politician, and an excellent one at that.
Donald Trump is a selfish bragger, a lying machine so oiled up that the gears are slipping.
They are not both bad. Donald Trump is bad. Hillary Clinton has worked consistently for the good of our citizens--unlike Mr. Trump.
Hillary Clinton has been ruthlessly pursued by the Right Wing since her husband was elected president twenty-four years ago. She is truly the victim of a vast, right-wing conspiracy. And yet she doesn't mention it, doesn't cry about how unfair it all is, how Benghazi was simply not her fault, how she was hounded into using an e-mail server that she alone controlled so detractors couldn't use her private correspondence against her, how powerful business interests colluded to smear her name when she spearheaded a proposal for what America desperately needs, even after Obamacare--National Health.
Hillary has spent her entire life working in public service, with (for the last quarter century) every word and action she's taken being carefully picked over for anything that might make her look bad. She is not a criminal (I've heard this from people I know to be smart!). She is a politician, and an excellent one at that.
Donald Trump is a selfish bragger, a lying machine so oiled up that the gears are slipping.
They are not both bad. Donald Trump is bad. Hillary Clinton has worked consistently for the good of our citizens--unlike Mr. Trump.
77
Of course lets not lift the rock of the Clinton Foundation while we talk about slick willy and the broadbeam. When we talk about the "vast right wing conspiracy", let's ignore the vast "left wing progressives". Let's ignor the business interests of Soros, Streyer, Guestra, Gore and other progressive big business owners who are there trying to impose their interests on this country and the world via the clinton agenda and the UN Agenda 21.
4
Bravo Nick
4
Trump, a 10 open the Richter Scale of untruth. He manufactures it out of thin air without provocation or the prospect of personal benefit — its is what he has been doing his entire adult life. It probably started as a young child, it is pathological.
Clinton is dodgy, she habitually bends the facts and deflects when there is a chance to damage control verses owning up directly. As our American politicians go she is hardly more than a mild tremor, a 2 on the Richter Scale of untruth.
Trump simply is clueless and doesn’t even realize what he is doing until the call out and consequences come rolling in, and even then there is little evidence of event scintilla of contrition. Many of the same spontaneous fabrications live on even after repeated exposures.
Clinton is knowingly cagey and evasive, this after a host of mixed experiences over 25 plus years in the public political eye. By now she should have just learned to be more forthright. The quintessential example is the travail over the stint as Secretary of State and the whole affair around the use of her private server. Hillary needs to learn to tell it all from the get go.
Clinton is dodgy, she habitually bends the facts and deflects when there is a chance to damage control verses owning up directly. As our American politicians go she is hardly more than a mild tremor, a 2 on the Richter Scale of untruth.
Trump simply is clueless and doesn’t even realize what he is doing until the call out and consequences come rolling in, and even then there is little evidence of event scintilla of contrition. Many of the same spontaneous fabrications live on even after repeated exposures.
Clinton is knowingly cagey and evasive, this after a host of mixed experiences over 25 plus years in the public political eye. By now she should have just learned to be more forthright. The quintessential example is the travail over the stint as Secretary of State and the whole affair around the use of her private server. Hillary needs to learn to tell it all from the get go.
9
While I loath Trump, Hillary is by far the most mendacious liar. Trump simply spouts whatever comes to mind and can be easily disproven. Hillary on the other hand, exerts an inordinate amount of time, energy, and cunning into fabricating "facts" to support a narrative that she so desperately wants us to believe. The obscene amounts of money that have been spent investigating the Clintons is in no small part due to the sophistication of their lies and their unwillingness to be circumspect and forthcoming with the truth. The next Clinton presidency will be defined by another series of self-inflicted, manure flinging, investigative panels.
13
The obscene amounts of money spent investigating the Clintons has only one true source: The Conservative Right trying to bring them down. I won't claim the Clintons have never prevaricated or bent the truth, but to blame the witch hunt that's been going on for years (without any results) on the Clintons is a bit too much.
56
So how come none of these expensive investigations ever came up with anything incriminating?
9
Sure, it was because of Hillary's sophisticated lies that we needed a 6th, 7th, 8th, and (I believe) 9th Benghazi investigation.
Perhaps if Hillary is elected, the GOP House will feel it necessary to establish a committee (4th or 5th?) to look into the sophisticated web of conspiracies surrounding Vince Foster's death...
Perhaps if Hillary is elected, the GOP House will feel it necessary to establish a committee (4th or 5th?) to look into the sophisticated web of conspiracies surrounding Vince Foster's death...
2
Both candidates are flawed, but while Hillary possesses imperfections, Donald has a crack that travels the length of his being.
Hillary is a recreation of Richard Nixon. She has the same deviousness and paranoia that contributes to her evasiveness. Nixon, whether you want to admit it, was smart and Hillary is easily on his level. Nixon’s strength was in foreign affairs, where she is also strong. Her major weakness has been her lies and exaggerations and in particular how she has handled being caught. Her major strengths are that she is very smart and very tough. But against a better candidate she would be toast.
Donald is something the world has never seen and we hope, will never see again. Forget being paranoid, his thinking at times is just this side of crazy. He is just smart enough to weasel his way out when caught in a lie. Actually, often he doesn’t argue his way out, he just denies and denies again. Being a wealthy celebrity has been his cloak. His wealth has allowed him to litigate opponents into submission and his celebrity has given an undeserved credibility. He is a dirty businessman who over the years has harmed more people than he has helped, depending on non-disclosure signings to hide his failings. He is a beast without a moral center and only a trace of an intellect. He has no problem lying because he has never, ever been truly held accountable in 70 years. It is frightening to think that he could pull off one more very big lie.
Hillary is a recreation of Richard Nixon. She has the same deviousness and paranoia that contributes to her evasiveness. Nixon, whether you want to admit it, was smart and Hillary is easily on his level. Nixon’s strength was in foreign affairs, where she is also strong. Her major weakness has been her lies and exaggerations and in particular how she has handled being caught. Her major strengths are that she is very smart and very tough. But against a better candidate she would be toast.
Donald is something the world has never seen and we hope, will never see again. Forget being paranoid, his thinking at times is just this side of crazy. He is just smart enough to weasel his way out when caught in a lie. Actually, often he doesn’t argue his way out, he just denies and denies again. Being a wealthy celebrity has been his cloak. His wealth has allowed him to litigate opponents into submission and his celebrity has given an undeserved credibility. He is a dirty businessman who over the years has harmed more people than he has helped, depending on non-disclosure signings to hide his failings. He is a beast without a moral center and only a trace of an intellect. He has no problem lying because he has never, ever been truly held accountable in 70 years. It is frightening to think that he could pull off one more very big lie.
35
We hold our politicians to unreasonable standards of truth. I think that every politician, from the local level on up to the federal level has done and said things that are not good but have gotten them something they wanted. When there was more pork barrel spending it seems that there was more cooperation. That may be an illusion but if a politician from Mississippi blocked an important piece of legislation his vital piece of a project could be held up. It wasn't a perfect system but it worked. Now politicians act as if they have nothing to lose and do whatever they want to whomever they want. They don't suffer. We do.
Trump is not trustworthy because of how he's behaved and what he's said. He's not presidential material. He is a clown and if he gets into the White House, a walking disaster. If he hasn't shown any sense on how to behave by now he won't. And Clinton has the experience we need. She's been successful. What more do people want out of her? She's not her husband and she's not as comfortable with crowds as he is. We'll have to accept a president who's not a hog for attention. It could be worse.
Trump is not trustworthy because of how he's behaved and what he's said. He's not presidential material. He is a clown and if he gets into the White House, a walking disaster. If he hasn't shown any sense on how to behave by now he won't. And Clinton has the experience we need. She's been successful. What more do people want out of her? She's not her husband and she's not as comfortable with crowds as he is. We'll have to accept a president who's not a hog for attention. It could be worse.
56
How ironic! It was the papers and media, including Mr K. who, sniffing after the GOP, created this illusion. It has been a peculiarity of the Democrats on the rigid Left,-those among the lefts's believers for whom cleanliness is more important than political position, and feel they are likely to infected with a disgusting disease if any candidate of their s is found not to be as pure as the mother of God.
Repeated front page articles, fed by leaks and investigations mostly by the GOP have made the presumption of guilt seem so obvious and serious and the
parties having been behind it all have been the GOP congressional hearings and the big media, allegedly reporting the "facts", but willing to kill and destroy anyone just to see the blood flow and run.
The responsibility for making the mountains of the molehills involved,
has been primarily the hard right trying to ruin a Democrat's chances of election through suspicion of her,but the "rigid left", always stiff necked and for whom no candidate is good enough who cannot prove virgin birth at least two generations back.
I have never seen a candidate so severely brutalized for nothing, by the very people who were allegedly on her side.
Repeated front page articles, fed by leaks and investigations mostly by the GOP have made the presumption of guilt seem so obvious and serious and the
parties having been behind it all have been the GOP congressional hearings and the big media, allegedly reporting the "facts", but willing to kill and destroy anyone just to see the blood flow and run.
The responsibility for making the mountains of the molehills involved,
has been primarily the hard right trying to ruin a Democrat's chances of election through suspicion of her,but the "rigid left", always stiff necked and for whom no candidate is good enough who cannot prove virgin birth at least two generations back.
I have never seen a candidate so severely brutalized for nothing, by the very people who were allegedly on her side.
41
People who think the NYT is the 'rigid left," seriously need to get out more.
3
Yeah so just keep on lying hillary. According to some it's okay.
2
So this is where the campaign is? Measuring the severity of the candidates lies. That Hillary Clinton is just like the normal dishonest politician whereas Donald Trump is in a league of his own. Clinton's interview on Fox recently about her e-mail scandal was typically dishonest and self serving. It seems likely that Clinton will be the next president. I miss Obama already.
12
Secretary Clinton is viewed by the majority of Americans as untrustworthy because of her history. The Obama State Department all but called her statements about having had permission to install a private server in her home lies. The FBI said they couldn't find evidence to recommend a criminal referral to the Justice Department because so much evidence had disappeared, but that a lesser employee would have lost their security clearance for life, at the least.
Then, take the pilfering of White House property when the Clintons moved out in 2001. The disappearance of Vince Foster's files from the White House when he committed suicide. Her lies about the motive and bad actors in Benghazi. And, wait, fibs?
I don't want to say Mr. Kristof needs to create huge lies in order to call what Hillary Clinton is guilty of fibs. But I hope he doesn't believe that she is above the law, and therefore can do no serious wrong. Despite all the serious wrong she has been guilty of.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2016/07/15/nytcbs-poll-hillarys-u...
Then, take the pilfering of White House property when the Clintons moved out in 2001. The disappearance of Vince Foster's files from the White House when he committed suicide. Her lies about the motive and bad actors in Benghazi. And, wait, fibs?
I don't want to say Mr. Kristof needs to create huge lies in order to call what Hillary Clinton is guilty of fibs. But I hope he doesn't believe that she is above the law, and therefore can do no serious wrong. Despite all the serious wrong she has been guilty of.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2016/07/15/nytcbs-poll-hillarys-u...
15
Moving out of the WH the Clintons had movers pack up donated items worth $28,000 that donors said they wanted to remain in the WH. So the Clintons sent them back. The items were furniture etc intermingled among items given to the Clintons.
Benghazi - the captured leaders of the attack said recruiting and arming were made easier by the video, that people spontaneously joined them in the planned attack and referenced the video. The video was the direct impetus for about a dozen similar brutal attacks in the region just prior to Benghazi. When interviewed, the families of the injured and killed said Hillary never told them a video caused the attacks, that she grieved with them and talked about the contributions of their loved ones.
Emails sent to state dept staff were all logged into the system and weren't lost.
Of 30,000 plus, only 3 carried a later designation of classified, and it was incorrect. State Dept has been victim along with other gov't servers of hackers. Not Hillary. She believed she complied with the obligation to keep the messages in the system by sending them to the State server. She did.
Moving on from the GOP FBI appointee who wrote the final report admitting no illegality, no security breach, but still damning Clinton anyway with ambiguous blather.........
Benghazi - the captured leaders of the attack said recruiting and arming were made easier by the video, that people spontaneously joined them in the planned attack and referenced the video. The video was the direct impetus for about a dozen similar brutal attacks in the region just prior to Benghazi. When interviewed, the families of the injured and killed said Hillary never told them a video caused the attacks, that she grieved with them and talked about the contributions of their loved ones.
Emails sent to state dept staff were all logged into the system and weren't lost.
Of 30,000 plus, only 3 carried a later designation of classified, and it was incorrect. State Dept has been victim along with other gov't servers of hackers. Not Hillary. She believed she complied with the obligation to keep the messages in the system by sending them to the State server. She did.
Moving on from the GOP FBI appointee who wrote the final report admitting no illegality, no security breach, but still damning Clinton anyway with ambiguous blather.........
37
There's a difference between blarney and a cover-up.
1
Secret or top secret communications should be recognisable by their content. The FBI Director said there were hundreds of them, not three. If Hillary does not know that communication between governments is secret or not casual (as she treated it) then how is she qualified to be President ? For goodness sake, she should know the rules by now. All of her word smithing excuses do not turn lies into truth.
I keep telling friends, etc - I'd rather the little pesky devil sort, over the granddaddy of the demons, the actual Satan as President. Clinton over Trump - every time. He's the real deal Demon. She's just a confounding spirit.
Clinton is a lawyer, she has lawyers on her staff, and those counseling her on her ongoing troubles with the "Committee-addicted" within the GOP. She clearly thinks like one, and knows, and is told by her team, not answer the unasked questions and to obfuscate with the direct ones, that's good lawyering. While frustrating, I can appreciate it. Thats the reality and everyone of her witch-hunting GOP critics would do and likely has done the same thing when being grilled by a "fact-finding" (LOL) congressional committee.
While Trump...he just makes stuff up and even on the rare occasions when he quotes real facts, they sound like he's making those up too! (which it turns out, he uses old, outdated facts most of the time) He knows his zealot fan-base doesn't seek facts, but thrive on innuendo and outright propaganda. He knows that lying is fine with his fans. He knows that the absence of evidence, or the lack of prosecutable evidence with these folks is code for conspiracy. Everything is fixed - no matter the absurdity of the claim or the absolute lack of evidence.
So I'll take the intelligent, poised, well-respected, experienced but confounding Spirit - over the irrational, clueless, easily baited, Twittering mad-man who is the epitome of Demonic.
Clinton is a lawyer, she has lawyers on her staff, and those counseling her on her ongoing troubles with the "Committee-addicted" within the GOP. She clearly thinks like one, and knows, and is told by her team, not answer the unasked questions and to obfuscate with the direct ones, that's good lawyering. While frustrating, I can appreciate it. Thats the reality and everyone of her witch-hunting GOP critics would do and likely has done the same thing when being grilled by a "fact-finding" (LOL) congressional committee.
While Trump...he just makes stuff up and even on the rare occasions when he quotes real facts, they sound like he's making those up too! (which it turns out, he uses old, outdated facts most of the time) He knows his zealot fan-base doesn't seek facts, but thrive on innuendo and outright propaganda. He knows that lying is fine with his fans. He knows that the absence of evidence, or the lack of prosecutable evidence with these folks is code for conspiracy. Everything is fixed - no matter the absurdity of the claim or the absolute lack of evidence.
So I'll take the intelligent, poised, well-respected, experienced but confounding Spirit - over the irrational, clueless, easily baited, Twittering mad-man who is the epitome of Demonic.
48
The fact that she IS a lawyer makes her lies worse not better.
1
To call lying to Congress and to the American people, numerous times, a "fib" disqualifies Kristof's writing from any serious consideration.
22
If so, why didn't the GOP chumps who have been spending taxpayer dollars to hound her for the past 30 years not prosecute her for lying? Lying to Congress is a prosecutable offense. It's all a figment of the the GOP's hard core, coalition of hate, designed to make their world of hate and fantasy the order of the day.
1
Trump does it all the time, many times in a speech, sometimes contradicts himself in the same sentence. Try to understand what he wrote by setting aside your hatred for Clinton for a moment.
1
Surprised, are ya?
It worked for Ollie North.
It worked for Ollie North.
2
The job of the President includes such unwholesome tasks as hiding some unpleasant facts about our hard cruel world, pursuing international diplomacy with various bad actors in the world, and pushing legislators around to get legislation passed. "Honest and trustworthy?" Mrs. Clinton is not running for eagle scout, or whatever the equivalent is in the girl scouts.
JFK may have appealed to the better angels of legislators' nature, but it was LBJ and his arm twisting that got civil rights legislation passed. When I think honest and trustworthy I have to go back to Jimmy Carter, who was an ineffectual, one term president who presided over a collapse of the economy in stagflation.
If Mrs. Clinton is a lawyer and a politician, she is the best qualified person one can even conceive of to be President.
Her opponent is a complete fake and a fraud. He has been caught in the biggest lie of all, completely misrepresenting who he is and what he stands for.
JFK may have appealed to the better angels of legislators' nature, but it was LBJ and his arm twisting that got civil rights legislation passed. When I think honest and trustworthy I have to go back to Jimmy Carter, who was an ineffectual, one term president who presided over a collapse of the economy in stagflation.
If Mrs. Clinton is a lawyer and a politician, she is the best qualified person one can even conceive of to be President.
Her opponent is a complete fake and a fraud. He has been caught in the biggest lie of all, completely misrepresenting who he is and what he stands for.
82
(Playing Devil's Advocate) But then, Hillary has a quarter of a decade of conspiracy theories around her that most of the Republican supporters hold deeply true. Those "stories" don't compare to her fibs.
6
Other articles including one in Mother Jones show Clinton coming in as one of the most honest and in fact even more honest than Sanders with the fact checkers. Benghazi and the emails were completely overblown. And given the fact that both the State Dept email and the DNC email servers were both hacked maybe she was smart to use her own.
57
Trump exaggerates and speaks off the cuff at an army of reporters who are sending him gottcha questions.
Hilary lies about things that might otherwise out her to jail (for corruption, negligence, perjury, putting herself above the rules) things done while in office,paid by US taxpayer money.
Hillary also lies about her influence in corrupting DWS and rigging the primaries, thus defrauding the millions of Sanders's voters of the voice and hard worked donations; she and Bill collected favors and corrupted Loretta Lynch, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and many others who broke rules and propriety to prop up Hillary.
So I'd say, Trump fibs and boasts and Hillary is the big, calculated LIAR.
Hilary lies about things that might otherwise out her to jail (for corruption, negligence, perjury, putting herself above the rules) things done while in office,paid by US taxpayer money.
Hillary also lies about her influence in corrupting DWS and rigging the primaries, thus defrauding the millions of Sanders's voters of the voice and hard worked donations; she and Bill collected favors and corrupted Loretta Lynch, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and many others who broke rules and propriety to prop up Hillary.
So I'd say, Trump fibs and boasts and Hillary is the big, calculated LIAR.
12
Exactly. If only The Times gave Trump the leeway it gave Obama to "misspeak". Even when Obama told blatant lies ("You can keep your doctor"), The Times called them "misstatements".
Trump is a showman. Hillary is a con woman.
Trump is a showman. Hillary is a con woman.
3
Not one of these so-called crimes has ever been uncovered in the many, many investigations (or witch hunts) of Hillary Clinton. Yet people claim they are true. The FBI director after more than a year of an investigation by 15 to 20 agents found that Sec. Clinton had done nothing worthy of prosecution, and he said twice at least during the hearing that she did not lie to the FBI (which would have been a crime). There were 8 Congressional investigations, an independent investigation and others of Benghazi, none of which found Clinton guilty of anything. What corruption? What rigging of an election? Where is any proof whatsoever of any of these unsustainable charges? Why call a Supreme Court justice corrupted? 4.4 million more people voted for Hillary Clinton.
Some people also believe without any evidence that Pres. Obama was magically born in Kenya and is a secret Muslim. Some believe in the Swiftboating proven lies about Sec. Kerry. All smear jobs and lies.
Some people also believe without any evidence that Pres. Obama was magically born in Kenya and is a secret Muslim. Some believe in the Swiftboating proven lies about Sec. Kerry. All smear jobs and lies.
7
Clinton spoke with members of the press recently and was asked about her email server. She answered at length. Immediately afterwards, an anchor on MSNBC asked a reporter: why did she take so long to answer that question? Why not a short answer?" Clearly someone at MSNBC had a stop-watch on Clinton. Why? Simple! Whatever Clinton said was prejudged to be wrong. Either she would have been too long (obfuscating) or too short (dodging the question and hiding something.)
The descent of MSNBC began sometime ago when Williams returned and Todd lost weight. They fired Crystal, Touré, Wagner, and Harris Perry, and relegated Al to Sunday morning. In my forthcoming reorganizing of my cable service, MSNBC will get the delete button.
The descent of MSNBC began sometime ago when Williams returned and Todd lost weight. They fired Crystal, Touré, Wagner, and Harris Perry, and relegated Al to Sunday morning. In my forthcoming reorganizing of my cable service, MSNBC will get the delete button.
18
MSNBC is the most liberal of cable networks. I have grave doubts about your reasoning.
2
Mr. Kristof, this is a very good op-ed. Thank you.
Now, I ask you to please write another good op-ed telling why in the world is the media continuing to insist on bring up the idiotic subject about Hillary's emails? The public is already fed up with that, but the media seams to relish. So, can you please write an op-ed explaining this stupidity about the media? Thank you.
Now, I ask you to please write another good op-ed telling why in the world is the media continuing to insist on bring up the idiotic subject about Hillary's emails? The public is already fed up with that, but the media seams to relish. So, can you please write an op-ed explaining this stupidity about the media? Thank you.
39
Yes, Nick, stop bringing up items that brand her as a corrupt liar who is not fit to lead a girl scout troop. Talk more about kissing babies and arguing with Dem stooges.
2
Mr. Kristof is attempting to make Ms. Clinton look like the lesser of two evils. He might want to consider that this is precisely the reason why Bernie Sanders received so many votes----American voters by and large are sick and tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. If Ms. Clinton were running against any legitimate and honest conservative opponent, she would have a very hard road ahead of her. Her only saving grace is the fact that she is running against a truly
sociopathic narcissist. If that is supposed to make us feel all warm and fuzzy about Clinton, I can report for myself that it isn't working.
sociopathic narcissist. If that is supposed to make us feel all warm and fuzzy about Clinton, I can report for myself that it isn't working.
15
Well, not exactly. Mr. Kristof concludes:
"In short, Clinton is about average for a politician in dissembling, while Trump is a world champion who is pathological in his dishonesty. Honestly, there is no comparison."
He says there is an order-of-magnitude difference between the candidates in terms of honesty. Roughly, one is a more or less typical politician (with historical scars), the other, a pathological liar (along with other deficiencies). Trump wins hands down on the issue of lying. Indeed, over the last 75 years I can recall not a single presidential candidate -- none of whom were perfect -- who lied so profoundly and regularly. He is in a class all by himself. Mr. Kristof implies nothing about "warm and fuzzy". He does suggest that a politician is preferable to a "sociopathic narcissist" (your characterization). And I agree completely. It's a slam dunk.
"In short, Clinton is about average for a politician in dissembling, while Trump is a world champion who is pathological in his dishonesty. Honestly, there is no comparison."
He says there is an order-of-magnitude difference between the candidates in terms of honesty. Roughly, one is a more or less typical politician (with historical scars), the other, a pathological liar (along with other deficiencies). Trump wins hands down on the issue of lying. Indeed, over the last 75 years I can recall not a single presidential candidate -- none of whom were perfect -- who lied so profoundly and regularly. He is in a class all by himself. Mr. Kristof implies nothing about "warm and fuzzy". He does suggest that a politician is preferable to a "sociopathic narcissist" (your characterization). And I agree completely. It's a slam dunk.
2
Show me an honest conservative. Most of them still believe the earth is flat, climate change is a hoax, evolution isn't real, the earth is 6,000 years old. I haven't seen any honest conservatives out there.
3
Actually, it is spozed to help you make a rational, adult decision about pros and cons.
1
Clinton was investigated by the FBI not for fibbing. There are now more investigations going on. Clinton's email server and deleting several thousand emails is an issue because it violated the policy of her office as a public servant to keep information safe and preserve information for FOIA. These are government requirements. If we could simply consider policy positions without the backdrop of a near miss criminal indictment it would be a different kind of choice. I think the NYT assessment is backward, Clinton Huge Lies and Trump Fibs. Clinton's behavior was while she was a cabinet official for the US with incumbent responsibilities. Trump was a reality show guy and businessman.
10
Clinton was never required to supply all her personal emails to any government branch. She was required to supply all emails related to state dept work. She did.
26
Has it occurred that if you were in business with Trump and he tried to cheat you or weasel out of contracts, or if you were a city manager who's gotten him tax breaks and he reneged on his end of the deal, or if you'd done subcontracting work for Trump and he wouldn't pay you, or you'd provided him with lodgings and he refused to pay the tab, or you worked for him and he stiffed you on your pay, or you were a student and his "university," tirned out to be phony--and the record clearly shows he's done all that, over and over and over--you might take that pretty seriously?
4
No Mrs. Clinton did not supply the required emails.
1
This is what it has come to? Which candidate is less bad?
I see Hillary's lies as more problematic. Hillary's lies relate to events that occurred while she was a public official. The side by side of Director's Comey's conclusions and Hillary's periodic statements - which got less coverage in your paper than the comparison between Mrs. Obama's and Mrs. Trump's trivial and irrelevant speeches - are striking.
Moreover, we still haven't been told the truth as to why the private server was used in the first place. I suspect it has a lot to do with Clinton Foundation business.
Hilary can't be careless and dumb when it comes to these choices and one of the country's smartest people at the same time.
Pick one.
Time to step up the coverage of Gary Johnson. He's a credible candidate and a viable alternative to two immoral people.
I see Hillary's lies as more problematic. Hillary's lies relate to events that occurred while she was a public official. The side by side of Director's Comey's conclusions and Hillary's periodic statements - which got less coverage in your paper than the comparison between Mrs. Obama's and Mrs. Trump's trivial and irrelevant speeches - are striking.
Moreover, we still haven't been told the truth as to why the private server was used in the first place. I suspect it has a lot to do with Clinton Foundation business.
Hilary can't be careless and dumb when it comes to these choices and one of the country's smartest people at the same time.
Pick one.
Time to step up the coverage of Gary Johnson. He's a credible candidate and a viable alternative to two immoral people.
7
I watched the FBI testimony. Mr. Come said that Hilary did NOT lie. All week I've been watching news people say that she did and is now being misleading. I think many many many news people are not smart enough to hold the positions they do.
21
He did NOT say she did not lie.
2
A lie is a lie. It's NOT a fib.
10
Yes, Trump is awful. He is what as advertised. A loudmouth, braying bully.
Some people enjoy WWF wrestling. Go figure. Takes all kinds.
That said I think you soft pedaled Ms. Clinton here.
As good lawyers, politcians and other smarmy peeps do, they hedge what they say and do. Just because they are not caught does not mean they haven't been unseemly, dishonest and rife with impropriety. They just shrug and shake their heads and smile that condescending smile to show they know they got away with it. Hey, that fits Ms. Clinton's MO to a T. If caught simply say it was misspoken or being overly hyped. Nothing but a Riechwing witch hunt or conspiracy.
I will give you this, she is definitely Slick Willie's co-conspirator. Two Grifters setting up the next con with willing marks waiting to assist.
Some people enjoy WWF wrestling. Go figure. Takes all kinds.
That said I think you soft pedaled Ms. Clinton here.
As good lawyers, politcians and other smarmy peeps do, they hedge what they say and do. Just because they are not caught does not mean they haven't been unseemly, dishonest and rife with impropriety. They just shrug and shake their heads and smile that condescending smile to show they know they got away with it. Hey, that fits Ms. Clinton's MO to a T. If caught simply say it was misspoken or being overly hyped. Nothing but a Riechwing witch hunt or conspiracy.
I will give you this, she is definitely Slick Willie's co-conspirator. Two Grifters setting up the next con with willing marks waiting to assist.
13
So it has come to this; which candidate's lies- in Mr. Kristof's opinion- are less consequential.
God help us.
God help us.
11
There are lies and lies. Hillary's involve breaching national security and lying to the nation about the cause of the Benghazi attacks. Hillary truthfully emailed her daughter shortly afterwards that it was a terrorist attack but told the nation "it was an awful video" and had the video maker sent to jail. She lied to the parents of the victims. Trump's puffery about what he will do as President is not in the same league. Hillary does not deserve to be entrusted with the nation's highest office.
15
So the Benghazi tragedy is all SoS Clinton's fault. Who cares about the eight (!) Republican-led investigations which definitively established (at significant cost to the taxpayer) that she acted appropriately and responsibly at the time and afterwards.
What I do not understand is why David Petraeus, the head of the CIA in 2012, has not been the focus of Republican ire. After all, the CIA made up most of the U.S. government's presence in Benghazi and was expected to provided security support for the consulate.
I am terribly sorry about the deaths in Benghazi. But I am also very sorry that the Republican's obsessive attacks on the SoS have obscured the more important story, which Is Ambassador Steven's sterling diplomatic efforts in Libya. Would that he had lived and been able to continue his excellent work in the Middle East.
What I do not understand is why David Petraeus, the head of the CIA in 2012, has not been the focus of Republican ire. After all, the CIA made up most of the U.S. government's presence in Benghazi and was expected to provided security support for the consulate.
I am terribly sorry about the deaths in Benghazi. But I am also very sorry that the Republican's obsessive attacks on the SoS have obscured the more important story, which Is Ambassador Steven's sterling diplomatic efforts in Libya. Would that he had lived and been able to continue his excellent work in the Middle East.
4
It's medium funny that you'd use the nom de guerre "Sue Mee," given Trumpy's 3500 lawsuits, and the current several lawsuits over Trump U.
Sorry; think I'll take the gal whose fibbing and occasional whoppers are a little more sophisticated than the guy who screams at me that he didn't say or do exactly what I saw him say or do the previous day.
Sorry; think I'll take the gal whose fibbing and occasional whoppers are a little more sophisticated than the guy who screams at me that he didn't say or do exactly what I saw him say or do the previous day.
2
This column is quite a stretcher.
You try to minimize HRC's lies and lead with the idiotic one about her being under fire. But her critical lies aren't spinning something minor like a flip flop on trade. The Benghazi lie about the video was a deliberate political move to help Obama win the upcoming election -- given that he'd bragged about Al Qaeda being on the run -- and gave them both cover for possible irresponsibility.
The e-mail LIES -- plural -- involve her handling of documents related to national security. Only a fool would think if you were SofS that you'd never possibly receive a classified e-mail OR that something you might write might be classified.
And we have -- at least so far -- lies of omission re the Clinton foundation and her speeches to wall street firms. There could be very serious policy implications here should she become president and I think we'd all be interested to know how the Clinton's went from poor to rich so quickly.
Her lying goes all the way back to Arkansas and the cattle futures trades.
Trumps lies are exaggerations or misstatements -- but they don't involve his malpractice as a publicly official.
Saying all politicians lie is simply silly. When Obama lied to the American public about the ACA -- that had and has critical implications for the American public and how they receive and pay for health care. Big problem. Calling HRC the most qualified person for president ever, while blatantly wrong, is harmless.
You try to minimize HRC's lies and lead with the idiotic one about her being under fire. But her critical lies aren't spinning something minor like a flip flop on trade. The Benghazi lie about the video was a deliberate political move to help Obama win the upcoming election -- given that he'd bragged about Al Qaeda being on the run -- and gave them both cover for possible irresponsibility.
The e-mail LIES -- plural -- involve her handling of documents related to national security. Only a fool would think if you were SofS that you'd never possibly receive a classified e-mail OR that something you might write might be classified.
And we have -- at least so far -- lies of omission re the Clinton foundation and her speeches to wall street firms. There could be very serious policy implications here should she become president and I think we'd all be interested to know how the Clinton's went from poor to rich so quickly.
Her lying goes all the way back to Arkansas and the cattle futures trades.
Trumps lies are exaggerations or misstatements -- but they don't involve his malpractice as a publicly official.
Saying all politicians lie is simply silly. When Obama lied to the American public about the ACA -- that had and has critical implications for the American public and how they receive and pay for health care. Big problem. Calling HRC the most qualified person for president ever, while blatantly wrong, is harmless.
13
Mr. Kristof has again broken new ground in sycophancy. We all know that Mrs. Clinton is a liar and her lies have cost many lives and perhaps irreparable harm to the United States, with the help of a venal and soulless administration.
But being able to lie about her lies and then telling lies about lies, lies was, I thought, the apex of such behavior.
Mr. Kristof's lies about the lies of the lies, lies makes even the most hardened cynic dezzy. That, my friends, is no lie.
But being able to lie about her lies and then telling lies about lies, lies was, I thought, the apex of such behavior.
Mr. Kristof's lies about the lies of the lies, lies makes even the most hardened cynic dezzy. That, my friends, is no lie.
16
It's a sorry state of affairs when precious New York Times opinion column real estate is devoted to discussing which major party presidential candidate is the bigger liar. Polls suggest that the majority of the American public don't believe or approve of what they hear from either candidate. And the wrong track numbers suggest it's not limited to the presidential race. Rather than comparing and trying to score the mendacity level or daily horse race statistics, perhaps more journalistic brainpower should be devoted to how we got here and what might be done to prevent a further descent into the political reality TV absurdity we are witnessing.
7
Mr. Kristof is wrong about the fact checkers on Benghazi. They couldn't corroborate statements either way. That's simply taking one side in the absence of proof. I'll take the word of the mother.
Hillary Clinton is STILL lying about her emails, trying to use Comey's statements to corroborate her own lies. He did not say she told the truth. Everyone knows it. She must think Americans are idiots.
Hillary Clinton is STILL lying about her emails, trying to use Comey's statements to corroborate her own lies. He did not say she told the truth. Everyone knows it. She must think Americans are idiots.
17
I don't think Comey said she lied. Who did? What if she did have an email account? How in the world did that harm anyone? Weapons of mass destruction was a lie and allowed a war. Gulf of Tonkin affair was a lie and cost half a million American lives. This was never a substantive abuse of power, like Watergate or Iran-Contra. It is a minor scandal about office politics, blown way out of proportion because of the success of "swift-boating" and a over eager media.
4
Comey said that she did not lie to the FBI. That was twice stated at the hearing. The so-called lies were 3 emails out of 30,000 that were obscurely marked as classified, and which were not in fact classified. Comey also agreed at the hearing that the obscure markings would have been easy to overlook. This is a mountain out of a molehill. Or Swiftboating as usual.
4
I don't think many Americans would recognize a lie if stuck in front of their face. Bernie, the most "authentic," and "truthful and honest", started his whole campaign on lies about what he could accomplish just with the bully pulpit. Free college for his followers by strength of his personality alone, and by threatening McConnell's job when all of his students were outside his window. Even though he didn't have support of 1 other senator for any of his slogans.
He used very selective research to prove the math of his plans, while reasonable exposure showed them completely unrealistic.
And worst of all he claimed the primary was "rigged" and that his fans should continue to fund his campaign even when it was certain he could not win.
And his charges against Clinton consisting of "she must have gotten something" for those speeches.
Yet somehow the press ran with his "authenticity". I guess that meant he didn't comb his hair and spoke with a Brooklyn accent. And they never pushed him on tax returns.
I watched the other day while Hillary took questions, with the press laying in wait, salivating over how they were going to parse every word to make headlines. And sure enough, none of the substance made the news, only the complete dissecting of her e-mail words to prove once again she was "less than truthful." "Less than completely forthcoming" with Hillary is placed on a scale with Trump's provable lies. The press deserves its unfavorable ratings.
He used very selective research to prove the math of his plans, while reasonable exposure showed them completely unrealistic.
And worst of all he claimed the primary was "rigged" and that his fans should continue to fund his campaign even when it was certain he could not win.
And his charges against Clinton consisting of "she must have gotten something" for those speeches.
Yet somehow the press ran with his "authenticity". I guess that meant he didn't comb his hair and spoke with a Brooklyn accent. And they never pushed him on tax returns.
I watched the other day while Hillary took questions, with the press laying in wait, salivating over how they were going to parse every word to make headlines. And sure enough, none of the substance made the news, only the complete dissecting of her e-mail words to prove once again she was "less than truthful." "Less than completely forthcoming" with Hillary is placed on a scale with Trump's provable lies. The press deserves its unfavorable ratings.
16
All of the things you cite are merely points on which you disagree with Bernie. Disagreeing with you does not a lie make.
1
What Comey said, and didn't say, about Clinton's emails is itself a matter of controversy. He never said that Clinton was untruthful. He did say that she answered all the questions put to her by the FBI. May we assume that the FBI was satisfied with her answers? I believe so. As for 113 emails that contained classified material but without classified markings, and the claim that three of these emails bore classified markings, Comey's statements were both disingenuous and incorrect. First, there were no emails that bore classified markings, a claim that Comey was forced to retract the very next day after his public statement that the FBI had concluded that Clinton had broken no laws and would not he indicted. Second, the claim that classified material was referenced in email chains (which can be very long!) tells us nothing about such references. Were they explicit? Vaguely referenced ("about that matter we were discussing, etc."). Comey makes out the very worst case. Even so, no charges against Clinton! And then, there is the unprecedented nature of Comey's statement itself. Normally the FBI would announce that after its investigation it had concluded that no laws were broken, etc. Period. What Comey did, quite astonishingly, was to exonerate Clinton with one hand and attempt to damn her with the other, managing to make a clearly false statement in doing so -- one which he was loath to retract. He knew that Clinton couldn't respond. I rate him one pant's leg on fire.
26
I rate him a political hack looking for a future as legal consultant at Fox News.
Comedy's conclusive statement is in violation of the FBI's publicaly stated mission, to present facts and not legal conclusions. NYTimes reporting failed to state this contradiction.
2
All of the tangled parsing and hand-wringing by the fact-checkers, the fourth estate, and thoughtful people who care about either, is just a good laugh for The Donald. He is playing a completely different game, on a completely different level. Trump has no substance. He IS a construction of lies.
The good news, if there is any, is that his lack of substance makes him heavily dependent on novelty. His oxygen (free press) is slowly depleting and he is now being forced to cut deals with the establishment for money. This money will come with quid pro quo restrictions which The Donald will understand, since he used to be on the other side of the table. And it's going to make him a less interesting candidate.
In the end, there's a chance America might just be saved by the same lack of attention that gave rise to the Trump threat. No-information voters are going to get bored of the lines he's already used, and he is going to have trouble picking new fights without hemorrhaging more voters, and losing out on establishment money.
Here's hoping we get tired of our new toy in time.
The good news, if there is any, is that his lack of substance makes him heavily dependent on novelty. His oxygen (free press) is slowly depleting and he is now being forced to cut deals with the establishment for money. This money will come with quid pro quo restrictions which The Donald will understand, since he used to be on the other side of the table. And it's going to make him a less interesting candidate.
In the end, there's a chance America might just be saved by the same lack of attention that gave rise to the Trump threat. No-information voters are going to get bored of the lines he's already used, and he is going to have trouble picking new fights without hemorrhaging more voters, and losing out on establishment money.
Here's hoping we get tired of our new toy in time.
10
Both candidates are fictional characters. Hillary is the corrupt, congenital liar and Donald is the rich playboy business tycoon. The real bios are hard to come by.
I blame the media for entertaining readers when they should have been informing them.
I blame the media for entertaining readers when they should have been informing them.
11
It's so sad to compare Hillary to Trump. One is a seasoned politician and the other a clown. However, if comparisons are in order, I'd say at least Trump is refreshingly candid; he just says whatever pops into his head. He would probably pass a lie detector test because he doesn't feel the wrongness of lying. And we know immediately what he's up to, rather than having to wait decades for sealed documents to come to light. (There would be a wealth of documents from Hillary in decades to come.)
And to be kind, let's not compare Hillary to Bernie, whose integrity galvinated the nation. Bernie is one of a kind.
Let's just compare her to other politicians, whom we expect to lie (to some extent) and we're not even surprised when they are exposed as sexual molesters and/or swindlers. But Hillary's level of distrust, I hold, is only matched by Nixon. That's a dubious claim to fame.
What is so egregious with Hillary's lies are her progressive promises and her covert deals with the power brokers who are out for their own personal gain, often at the expense (literal and figurative) of the rest of us. It's not the truthfulness of her statements but the glaring discrepancy between her words and her actions that I find most abhorrent; it is a direct affront our basic concept of government by the people and for the people.
And to be kind, let's not compare Hillary to Bernie, whose integrity galvinated the nation. Bernie is one of a kind.
Let's just compare her to other politicians, whom we expect to lie (to some extent) and we're not even surprised when they are exposed as sexual molesters and/or swindlers. But Hillary's level of distrust, I hold, is only matched by Nixon. That's a dubious claim to fame.
What is so egregious with Hillary's lies are her progressive promises and her covert deals with the power brokers who are out for their own personal gain, often at the expense (literal and figurative) of the rest of us. It's not the truthfulness of her statements but the glaring discrepancy between her words and her actions that I find most abhorrent; it is a direct affront our basic concept of government by the people and for the people.
3
Uh, yea, she's what's called a clever weasel.
3
and her pathological aversion to responsibility...for anything.
3
Oh please. No more of this St. Bernie Sanders-who-is-without-mortal-sin trope.
Fact is. He didn't get exposed.
And you'd better believe that if he got that nomination, the Republicans would be on him like white on rice, and EVERY secret in his life would be on the front page --just like they've been doing to Clinton, Obama, and every other non-Republican candidate all these years!
Fact is. He didn't get exposed.
And you'd better believe that if he got that nomination, the Republicans would be on him like white on rice, and EVERY secret in his life would be on the front page --just like they've been doing to Clinton, Obama, and every other non-Republican candidate all these years!
3
It would be helpful to voters and the nonvoting public (a share of the population of voting age that seems to grow every election cycle) to put these incidents of political mendacity in a historical perspective. As the ability to fact check candidates' public assertions has become nearly instantaneous--as filtered through the sources' partisan biases--it's well worth a backward glance at our nation's history to see if this practice is of recent vintage or trails back closer to the beginning of the Republic. Did we indeed have an "Honest Abe"? Or has our tradition of politicking always been, as Alexander Hamilton said, ". . . to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) my menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary"?
9
The question is why are people so willing to believe Clinton is a liar and a crook when she is no comparison to most politicians and the worst of them all pathological liar Donald Trump? What psychologists know is that a powerful woman is feared so much that people will believe anything in order to stop her. Throughout human history every culture on the planet has developed ways to control women, from honor killings, to sexual mutilation, to controlling reproductive decisions, to denying women the vote. It is a tribute to Clinton that she not only persevered but that she did so with one of the lowest prevarication ratings of modern politicians. I have been called a liar and dangerous and crazy only because I advocated for my rights. Some friends even turned on me out of fear that they would be branded the same. What I know is that in order to get past the hostility leveled at powerful women, one must press on in spite of the hardship. When Hillary is elected President I hope we can clean up the sexism that defines a woman as bad because she dares to be great.
25
yes, it happens to all of us. To be 'totally honest' in commenting about the emails would take at least five minutes and put everyone to sleep. Comey said they found no evidence she lied to the FBI, which to normal people means she told the truth to the FBI. So what if she'd said, they found no evidence I lied, would that make her response true, or would it sound to normal people like she was bragging about getting away with something? Comey ought to have said she was truthful, and when he said she was careless he ought to have said that the State Department, in his careless opinion, is careless. He also made a point of saying the fact that there was no evidence of hacking didn't mean there had been no hacking. With that, how is she supposed to tell the public the FBI confirmed she told the truth, without that being called a 'lie,' even though she did tell the truth and even though the FBI investigation that took more than a year found no emails that has been "marked classified?" It's not Hillary who parses words, her words are routinely parsed.
1
Donald Trump most probably suffers from advancing Alzheimer's disease. I ignore him as a candidate for the presidency. Clinton, as far as I know, has no similar excuses.
In attempts to compare and minimize the potential harm Clinton is capable of, especially as, commander in Chief of this country, by compulsively spinning her, "fibs," to elevate political status and keep herself above and beyond the laws of the land, with Trump's brain disordered, phantasmagorical delusions of morally acceptable business practices, family life and neo fascist political leanings, is disingenuous.
From two private, multi-million dollar corporate enterprises, the Democrat Party and the Republican Party, we are presented with Clinton and Trump as hypothetically viable candidates for the presidency, one who Kristof, uses the diminutive vernacular long assigned to children, is a compulsive "fibber," and the other, in probability, suffers from terminal brain disorder.
Neither the hawkish neo-liberal, entitled and compulsive "fibber," or the brain disordered neo-fascist will receive a vote from me.
However, there seems to be a growing number of Progressive down ticket candidates rising to the fore in America. Now there, I can be of some help in making phone calls and donating to genuine and worthy endeavors.
In attempts to compare and minimize the potential harm Clinton is capable of, especially as, commander in Chief of this country, by compulsively spinning her, "fibs," to elevate political status and keep herself above and beyond the laws of the land, with Trump's brain disordered, phantasmagorical delusions of morally acceptable business practices, family life and neo fascist political leanings, is disingenuous.
From two private, multi-million dollar corporate enterprises, the Democrat Party and the Republican Party, we are presented with Clinton and Trump as hypothetically viable candidates for the presidency, one who Kristof, uses the diminutive vernacular long assigned to children, is a compulsive "fibber," and the other, in probability, suffers from terminal brain disorder.
Neither the hawkish neo-liberal, entitled and compulsive "fibber," or the brain disordered neo-fascist will receive a vote from me.
However, there seems to be a growing number of Progressive down ticket candidates rising to the fore in America. Now there, I can be of some help in making phone calls and donating to genuine and worthy endeavors.
4
The perfect is the enemy of the good in politics. HRC is good enough when compared to Trump. Your purity will sink us, but as we drown from a Trump presidency, you will have your virtue. Bravo.
2
Once upon a time, a woman named Clinton ran against a man named Obama. They were both very, very popular. When it looked like neither would win a majority, they pooled their resources. Obama asked, "What can I give you if you drop out and endorse me?" Clinton, who had already been part of White House life by virtue of marrying a man with political ambitions, answered, "Appoint me to Secretary of State and give me your endorsement the next time I run for President." Obama, previously a junior everything, said, "It's done." And the rest of the story is one of money (foreign and domestic), power (foundation), and governmental influence (from the grateful Top) working on the populace to make it appear as if Clinton's party ever had any other choice.
10
The problem is that GOP, not just Trump, has been making and spreading lies about Clinton lying.
17
Both candidates are garbage, however, if the race is close I'll hold my nose while checking off the Democratic ticket.
I'm a FDR Democrat looking for the candidates with courage, ideals and the conviction FDR had. Not interested in clinton conservative half-loaf future promises aimed to placate the masses.
And trump is simply ridiculous. I think sometimes he's even embarrassed by himself.
I'm a FDR Democrat looking for the candidates with courage, ideals and the conviction FDR had. Not interested in clinton conservative half-loaf future promises aimed to placate the masses.
And trump is simply ridiculous. I think sometimes he's even embarrassed by himself.
3
FDR had the same "faults" as any politician who has to battle a chaotic stew of competing interests. Expecting 'truth' in such a situation is totally naive.
1
To me, Trump's most egregious lies are the "Yes, I agree to pay you $xxx if you do this job for me." Forget about his own bankruptcies ... how many workers and small businesses have gone under because he refused to pay his bills? They couldn't afford the time or money to sue him, so they lost everything.
And he's still doing it on the campaign trail ... wasn't there just a story about him threatening to not pay a hotel recently?
He's a parasite.
And he's still doing it on the campaign trail ... wasn't there just a story about him threatening to not pay a hotel recently?
He's a parasite.
17
Mr. Kristof exposes another example of the false equivalency promoted by the news media. Even the supposedly pro-Clinton MSNBC spent much of the day yesterday nattering about whether Clinton's difficult press conference over the e-mail issue had completely overshadowed Trump's feud with the family of a fallen soldier, his feud with the Republican leadership and the slow trickle of Republican renunciation of his candidacy, his nuclear irresponsibility, and his plummeting poll numbers--to the extent that Georgia (Georgia!) is now a swing state. All is overshadowed by Clinton's stupid refusal to acknowledge her carelessness over the e-mail issue. And this is on the most liberal network on cable, MSNBC. I shudder to think what Fox News is saying--but I can't find out because my house was formally designated a No Fox Zone many years ago.
8
Trump's lies are those of a self-aggrandizing buffoon.
Clinton's lies are those of a self-entitled sociopath.
At this point, what does it matter. Either way we'll be stuck with a liar who has no business leading anything, much less this nation.
Clinton's lies are those of a self-entitled sociopath.
At this point, what does it matter. Either way we'll be stuck with a liar who has no business leading anything, much less this nation.
10
In James Comey's testimony in the June House hearing, he stated: "Prosecuting Clinton would be celebrity hunting...treating the person differently than John Doe." So, rather than the common perception that Clinton was treated by a different set of rules by Comey, the opposite is the truth. If she were prosecuted, it would be because she is famous and some would like to get her. So, why, Mr. Kristof, did you say what you did about Comey's conclusion regarding Clinton?
12
There are lies and then there are stats, and many a time they overlap. Trump's lies are most blatant. His lies are proven to be false almost immediately after they are spewed out of curled lips.
What is more amazing to listen to is his constant self-aggrandizing. He is the best at everything. Who says? He does of course, but no one else except his zealous disciples seem to concur. Here in NYC Trump has been a laughingstock for decades. We've got his number. He's a joke a fraud a con artist who has shortchanged and caused many who thought they were climbing on the Trump bandwagon to declare bankruptcy. And without a care, Trump has no sympathy for them.
One could only imagine if somehow miraculously Trump was elected how disappointed his followers would be once he took office: What wall? What are you talking about? Hey, I've talked to some people and they tell me it's not doable. That's the way it goes, folks. Tough luck.
Yeah, tough luck Trump chumps. You can join the vast line forming to the right that has been bamboozled by this shaman.
DD
Manhattan
What is more amazing to listen to is his constant self-aggrandizing. He is the best at everything. Who says? He does of course, but no one else except his zealous disciples seem to concur. Here in NYC Trump has been a laughingstock for decades. We've got his number. He's a joke a fraud a con artist who has shortchanged and caused many who thought they were climbing on the Trump bandwagon to declare bankruptcy. And without a care, Trump has no sympathy for them.
One could only imagine if somehow miraculously Trump was elected how disappointed his followers would be once he took office: What wall? What are you talking about? Hey, I've talked to some people and they tell me it's not doable. That's the way it goes, folks. Tough luck.
Yeah, tough luck Trump chumps. You can join the vast line forming to the right that has been bamboozled by this shaman.
DD
Manhattan
17
Mr Kristoff. A lie is a lie is a lie. No such a thing as a little lie. It is like saying: "I am a little bit pregnat"
7
No one lives their life by that rule and we shouldn't expect politicians to. White lies and incomplete truths lubricate social, political and business life. But the bigger problem here is that virtually none of the examples of Clinton "lies" even meet the definition of the word. A "lie" is a deliberate misstatement -- not an inaccurate statement or a change of position. It is hard to take seriously a critique of Clinton's truthfulness by people who can't distinguish between the two. Comey testified that the FBI had no basis for concluding that Clinton lied in her FBI interview. He also testified that Clinton may well not have known that any of the emails that passed through the private server contained classified information. Of the 30,000+ emails the FBI reviewed, only 3 had any sort of classified markings and those 3 were not property marked. Comey's testimony suggests Clinton may have been incorrect when she said no classified information passed through the private server -- but as long as that reflected her good faith belief and not a deliberate misstatement, it was not a lie.
7
NCSence,
You used the words "Good Faith", as part of your attempt to help Hillary, the lies like a rug charlatan.
Defined, good faith, a noun, means "honesty or sincerity of intention".
"the details contained in this brochure have been published in good faith"
Think about about Hillarys' "sincerity of intention", and ask yourself, does she even know what it is to feel sincere, except for that very obvious "sincere" wanton ability, to lie, and then lie repeatedly, to dismiss the previous lie, ruining our Democracy in the process, and creating an opening for a crazy authoritarian.
You used the words "Good Faith", as part of your attempt to help Hillary, the lies like a rug charlatan.
Defined, good faith, a noun, means "honesty or sincerity of intention".
"the details contained in this brochure have been published in good faith"
Think about about Hillarys' "sincerity of intention", and ask yourself, does she even know what it is to feel sincere, except for that very obvious "sincere" wanton ability, to lie, and then lie repeatedly, to dismiss the previous lie, ruining our Democracy in the process, and creating an opening for a crazy authoritarian.
HILLARY'S LIES—LOGICAL INCONSISTENCY/LEGAL EXPOSURE
Hillary stated the following at her first "press conference" in about 2/3 of a year:
CLINTON: "Comey had said that my answers in my FBI interview were truthful. That’s really the bottom line here. And I have said on — during the interview and in many other occasions over the past months, that what I told the FBI — which he said was truthful — is consistent with what I have said publicly.
So I may have short circuited it and for that I — you know, will try to clarify…"
To use a term favored by Clinton and her cabal, let's unpack Clinton's statement:
1– Clinton says Comey said the her answers in her FBI interview were truthful
2– Clinton says her answers in her FBI interview were consistent with what she said publicly.
Comment: Read the transcripts/watch the video of Comey's questioning by Trey Gowdy.
Comey testified under oath that all of Clinton's public statements were lies and that his conclusion was BASED ON THE FBI INVESTIGATION.
If Clinton's statements are true, it follows that the FBI did not ask Clinton the relevant questions to protect her from a Hobson's choice—jail or jail, i.e., perjury or inculpating herself. And, conveniently for Clinton and the FBI, there are no videos or transcripts of the FBI interview of Clinton.
If those statements are false, Clinton confessed to her crimes and the FBI is complicit in a coverup. Jail them all.
8
It is emblematic of Trump supporters that they confuse talk radio opinions, fiction and hate for facts upon which to base reasonable conclusions.
Clinton confessed to nothing, Comey concluded with thousands of pages of facts that there are no facts to support recommending any indictment - but there is some basis for criticism (when is there never?)
In short - the Trump narrative is once again hate based fiction.
Clinton confessed to nothing, Comey concluded with thousands of pages of facts that there are no facts to support recommending any indictment - but there is some basis for criticism (when is there never?)
In short - the Trump narrative is once again hate based fiction.
13
Marian, did you read the article. Your still trying to prove something that we all know. The point to the article is that Clinton is in line with what the majority of politician do. Trump on the other hand is off the charts. Did you watch him make up the entire story of the plane landing, the long entire lie that fell so naturally off his lips. At this point you may as well save your breath, this has been wrote about ad-nauseum and the facts are Trump is a pathological liar while Clinton is a run of the mill politician liar, which all of them are. As for all the evidence you put there trying to show that Clinton should be locked up, Comey after his investigation found that she was truthful with him, it's not that he didn't ask the right questions, it's not like joe public is smarter than the FBI investigators. We spent millions trying to lock her up and failed, move on. Vote for Trump if you want, but trying to convince the rest of us who can plainly see he is insane is pointless.
1
"If Clinton's statements are true, it follows that the FBI did not ask Clinton the relevant questions to protect her from a Hobson's choice—jail or jail, i.e., perjury or inculpating herself. And, conveniently for Clinton and the FBI, there are no videos or transcripts of the FBI interview of Clinton.
If those statements are false, Clinton confessed to her crimes and the FBI is complicit in a coverup. Jail them all. "
I believe the first option is the one that went down. That's what Lynch kissing the Godfather's ring on tarmac was all about–ensuring him the wife wouldn't be faced with a Hobson's choice.
If those statements are false, Clinton confessed to her crimes and the FBI is complicit in a coverup. Jail them all. "
I believe the first option is the one that went down. That's what Lynch kissing the Godfather's ring on tarmac was all about–ensuring him the wife wouldn't be faced with a Hobson's choice.
The biggest problem with Hillary is not her lies. The biggest problem that she will expand our wars in Syria, Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan.
6
@Christian Miller - If Hillary Clinton had prevailed in moving to quash Isis in Syria - we likely would have avoided much of this - but as Putin was trying to provoke a distraction from his invasion of Ukraine, that's supposition.
How about Congress doing its job? Obama, Clinton, and Tim Kaine have been very strong to that point!
Any great suggestions for how to fight terrorism or build peace in the Mid-East or just snipes?
How about Congress doing its job? Obama, Clinton, and Tim Kaine have been very strong to that point!
Any great suggestions for how to fight terrorism or build peace in the Mid-East or just snipes?
There is more on Trump's dishonesty in a lengthy article on his shady, and often unsuccessful, business dealings at:
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/08/12/donald-trumps-business-failures-elect...
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/08/12/donald-trumps-business-failures-elect...
6
Everyone accepts that Trump is crooked--he has a long, long history of defaults on payments, bankruptcies and lawsuits, plus, as Kristof points out, he is without a doubt the most egregious liar in the campaign. And, let's not forget that an article in Politico investigating Trump's ties to the Mafia stated, "No other candidate for the White House this year has anything close to Trump’s record of repeated social and business dealings with mobsters, swindlers, and other crooks."
Meanwhile, Clinton has been investigated by independent prosecutors and Congressional inquiries for years. And after millions of taxpayer dollars spent, none of the investigations ever turned up evidence that she was involved in anything more than any other typical high level politician in either party, none of whom can point the finger at anyone else with a clear conscience, and considerably less than the typical rich, casino operator.
Yet, Republicans continue their nasty whisper campaign about her, hoping to keep the heat off Trump, because they know he could never stand up to the kind of scrutiny Clinton has. No one in the gambling business is free from fraud and illegality.
It's a shame we have to compare presidential candidates to determine which is the least offensive, but even if their records of truthfulness were equal, on all other levels Trump is so despicable that he wins as most deplorable candidate in recent history. Since he loves winning, he and his fans must be very proud.
Meanwhile, Clinton has been investigated by independent prosecutors and Congressional inquiries for years. And after millions of taxpayer dollars spent, none of the investigations ever turned up evidence that she was involved in anything more than any other typical high level politician in either party, none of whom can point the finger at anyone else with a clear conscience, and considerably less than the typical rich, casino operator.
Yet, Republicans continue their nasty whisper campaign about her, hoping to keep the heat off Trump, because they know he could never stand up to the kind of scrutiny Clinton has. No one in the gambling business is free from fraud and illegality.
It's a shame we have to compare presidential candidates to determine which is the least offensive, but even if their records of truthfulness were equal, on all other levels Trump is so despicable that he wins as most deplorable candidate in recent history. Since he loves winning, he and his fans must be very proud.
21
Typical HC water carrier...HC blames the DNC email hack on Putin, knowing it was a big fat lie, and people in this space still consider her a viable candidate? How can provoking a world leader like Putin with a total fabrication be considered presidential?
[start the circus music: da da dada dada da da da da...]
[start the circus music: da da dada dada da da da da...]
1
One major difference is that Mrs. Clinton's lies or disingenuous statements involve our national security (email scandal) and the death of American service people, including members of the state department she ran, in an effort to cover up her massive failing in these two areas.
I am not a Trump support, so this shouldn't be seen as supporting him, but Trumps lies involve the amount of rooms in trump tower suites. There is a massive difference there. Anyway, neither of these two are qualified to be POTUS, where we should hold our politicians to higher standard.
I am not a Trump support, so this shouldn't be seen as supporting him, but Trumps lies involve the amount of rooms in trump tower suites. There is a massive difference there. Anyway, neither of these two are qualified to be POTUS, where we should hold our politicians to higher standard.
10
Oh my, it has come to this, to Kristof trying to parse the un-parseable.
So Trump's lawyer says that he lies all the time. Goodness gracious, politicians only lie when their lips move. And Hillary only lies when she - bad girl that she is - is caught in an important whopper.
I don't like Trump either, like Richard R, but Hillary is, as Senator Bob Kerrey said in 1992, "a very accomplished liar".
Report on THAT Mr. Kristof!!
So Trump's lawyer says that he lies all the time. Goodness gracious, politicians only lie when their lips move. And Hillary only lies when she - bad girl that she is - is caught in an important whopper.
I don't like Trump either, like Richard R, but Hillary is, as Senator Bob Kerrey said in 1992, "a very accomplished liar".
Report on THAT Mr. Kristof!!
1
@Richard R. - your statements surely come across as a Trump's behavior is the issue. His lies are foolish, compulsive and his response to being called on them extreme and psychopathic. Your misrepresentations regarding Hillary Clinton discharging her duties as Secretary of State, which include responsibility for our embassies, which, incidentally, experienced less loss of life than during either the Reagan or (both) Bush administrations, indicate a naive lack of knowledge on your part with regard to our recent history or any historical precedent. In short - your opinion is conclusion based on supposition, not facts.
2
There have been many embassy attacks and many dead or injured in various administrations.
The reality is embassies are protected by the host nation (go visit any embassy in DC). If the host nation support disappears, then the only option is to evacuate.
The other reality is there is no Star Trek transporter machine. The USMC Quick Reaction Force in Spain couldn't assemble, load, and fly to Benghazi before the attack was over. Which is what the investigations concluded.
So, the better question might be why did Congress not fund the State Department's request for security funding?
Hindsight being 20-20, the even better question is what is Congress doing to prevent/respond to future attacks?
Your note highlights the problems with communication. Are you remembering the facts incorrectly... or are you misinformed.... or did you read an incorrect headline.....or you didn't read the reports fully..... or you're mis-stating the facts? Or I am?
The reality is embassies are protected by the host nation (go visit any embassy in DC). If the host nation support disappears, then the only option is to evacuate.
The other reality is there is no Star Trek transporter machine. The USMC Quick Reaction Force in Spain couldn't assemble, load, and fly to Benghazi before the attack was over. Which is what the investigations concluded.
So, the better question might be why did Congress not fund the State Department's request for security funding?
Hindsight being 20-20, the even better question is what is Congress doing to prevent/respond to future attacks?
Your note highlights the problems with communication. Are you remembering the facts incorrectly... or are you misinformed.... or did you read an incorrect headline.....or you didn't read the reports fully..... or you're mis-stating the facts? Or I am?
1
It's hilarious (as opposed to "Hillarious") reading Trump plants trying to reverse Kristoff's point that in Trump we have a grossly negligent pathological liar whereas Hillary Clinton is basically a skilled lawyer who skillfully seeks to avoid the traps the GOP has been setting for her for the past 30 years. She's been very good at this, but lies repeated often enough by Republicans following the Josef Goebbels model of 'lie often enough and you create the truth,' has had its effect through the media crediting these lies by using their drama as the 'sub-header.' It's an old game.
Trump, on the other hand, lies all the time, compulsively to prove he can put it over, or simply because he's too easily distracted to ever consider learning the facts, and creates his own traps and jumps right in. Then he relies on 'John Barron' avatars and KGB post-operative goons to clumsily try to lie his way out of his lies. Or, most often, to throw up smoke and dirt to distract or diminish the last disaster. Like Trump's disastrous and slanderous attacks on the Kahn family and other Gold Star families who the GOP has scorned and disrespected by propping up this tacky, compulsively lying buffoon.
Even comparing the GOP slanderous campaign against Clinton to Trump's glaring and impossible to avoid pathological compulsion is an insult to the facts of the matter. Trump is a hollow man, a sociopath burdened by a metastasized narcissism indulged in the worst-case scenario for out nation.
Trump, on the other hand, lies all the time, compulsively to prove he can put it over, or simply because he's too easily distracted to ever consider learning the facts, and creates his own traps and jumps right in. Then he relies on 'John Barron' avatars and KGB post-operative goons to clumsily try to lie his way out of his lies. Or, most often, to throw up smoke and dirt to distract or diminish the last disaster. Like Trump's disastrous and slanderous attacks on the Kahn family and other Gold Star families who the GOP has scorned and disrespected by propping up this tacky, compulsively lying buffoon.
Even comparing the GOP slanderous campaign against Clinton to Trump's glaring and impossible to avoid pathological compulsion is an insult to the facts of the matter. Trump is a hollow man, a sociopath burdened by a metastasized narcissism indulged in the worst-case scenario for out nation.
57
Agreed, there are more Trump plants in comments pages than there are in the Botanical Gardens. Trump's response to questions of his own statements in which he solicits espionage, slanders gold-star families, and other 'goofs' is to furiously lie and attempt to change the subject from his being an easily caught out liar and fear monger.
6
deceit in business is the "art of the deal" whereas deceit in politics is often posturing and deflection . There's a great difference between parsing words in politics as Hillary does and wholesale disinformation spewed in Putinesque fashion by the Donald. It is doubtful Mrs. Clinton's "fudge would get her very far in business and likewise D.Trump's pathological lying would not serve him well in government !
10
"Yet the idea that they are even in the same league is preposterous."
For once I agree with Kristof. Hillary lied about the death of Americans in Benghazi. She lied about her e-mail server which contained classified information and almost certainly was hacked endangering US national security. Even after her lies were revealed she continues to lie.
There is no comparison to their respective lies Hillary's were about deaths and national security Trump's doesn't even come close to the damage Hillary has caused.
For once I agree with Kristof. Hillary lied about the death of Americans in Benghazi. She lied about her e-mail server which contained classified information and almost certainly was hacked endangering US national security. Even after her lies were revealed she continues to lie.
There is no comparison to their respective lies Hillary's were about deaths and national security Trump's doesn't even come close to the damage Hillary has caused.
9
jacobi, how has Hillary lied about the deaths in Benghazi as there have been changing views on who attacked the consulate/CIA station there. The latest word from the main suspect is it was caused by the video but , regardless, the thing is it is bad whoever the attackers are. As for the emails, it appears 3 out of 30,000 emails were labelled with the "C" foc "claissified". She made a mistake but her lies are nothing compared to saying climate change was a hoax created by the Chinese or claiming Hillary says she's gonna raise taxes on the middle class when she said the opposite or claiming Obama's birth certificate is fake. He lies everyday, several times a day; Hillary lies a couple times per decade.
8
@jacobi. You're a true believer, so I expect that this response will have no effect, but it's hard to resist. Trey Gowdy and his fellow Republicans spent (wasted, actually) tens of millions of dollars -- your money and mine -- on a partisan hunt to find evidence that Sec. Clinton was in any way at fault in the deaths that occurred in Beghazi. You read, I assume, that Gowdy's report admits that they found *nothing* to suggest that she was at fault.
When FBI Director Comey was under oath before yet another partisan Congressional Committee, Congressman Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) asked him point-blank whether Hillary Clinton had lied to the FBI. His response: "We have no basis to believe that she lied to the FBI." That quote is verbatim, by the way.
There is no evidence that her private email server was ever hacked (although the State Department's "secure" server was hacked), there was no law, rule, or regulation prohibiting her use of such a server at the time (Congress didn't amend the applicable law, the Federal Records Act, until nearly 2 years after she left office), and *none* of the three purportedly "classified" emails (the lowest level of protection, incidentally) that went through her server was properly marked "classified." This is why Comey also testified under oath that it was reasonable for Sec. Clinton to believe that they weren't, in fact, classified when she sent them.
As for Donald Trump, he has a "tell" whenever he lies: his lips move.
When FBI Director Comey was under oath before yet another partisan Congressional Committee, Congressman Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) asked him point-blank whether Hillary Clinton had lied to the FBI. His response: "We have no basis to believe that she lied to the FBI." That quote is verbatim, by the way.
There is no evidence that her private email server was ever hacked (although the State Department's "secure" server was hacked), there was no law, rule, or regulation prohibiting her use of such a server at the time (Congress didn't amend the applicable law, the Federal Records Act, until nearly 2 years after she left office), and *none* of the three purportedly "classified" emails (the lowest level of protection, incidentally) that went through her server was properly marked "classified." This is why Comey also testified under oath that it was reasonable for Sec. Clinton to believe that they weren't, in fact, classified when she sent them.
As for Donald Trump, he has a "tell" whenever he lies: his lips move.
2
HIllary Clinton did not cause those deaths. Possibly some could have been avoided had congress not denied funding. Trump has only caused thousands of people to go broke but as far as we know no deaths. With how little regard he has for destroying others in business, small and big people alike, how compassionate or responsible will he be with our countries lives once he is president? He is all about empire, his own.
1
Hillary Clinton is the lawyer.
Donald Trump is the salesman.
They both have a loose professional relationship with the truth.
They have different negotiating skill sets.
The lawyer protects her client and tries to get the best deal by being crafty with the laws and being guarded about revealing the facts.
The salesman tries to get the best deal by addressing the needs and desires of their client.
The lawyer has professional standards.
The salesman is on their own, but tries to create a relationship or reputation.
Donald Trump says whatever he thinks will profit him and lacks subtlety.
Hillary Clinton prevaricates and is more artful.
Both are trying to adopt the skill sets of politicians, but for the most part cannot be other than their professional selves.
Telling lies vs. being untrustworthy?!
Donald Trump is the salesman.
They both have a loose professional relationship with the truth.
They have different negotiating skill sets.
The lawyer protects her client and tries to get the best deal by being crafty with the laws and being guarded about revealing the facts.
The salesman tries to get the best deal by addressing the needs and desires of their client.
The lawyer has professional standards.
The salesman is on their own, but tries to create a relationship or reputation.
Donald Trump says whatever he thinks will profit him and lacks subtlety.
Hillary Clinton prevaricates and is more artful.
Both are trying to adopt the skill sets of politicians, but for the most part cannot be other than their professional selves.
Telling lies vs. being untrustworthy?!
10
Only a fraction of lawyers litigate. Most are negotiators on behalf of their clients.
Many lawyers go into politics because it is a negotiation process.
Many lawyers go into politics because it is a negotiation process.
5
Mr Trump is not lying. He is openly stating what a Majority of the population has been led to belief, and mind you, it Believes and will all their hearts. Minds have no effects on the heart.
The most watched cable news program in US, the most listened to radio shows on the drive to and from work, the "news" media they listen to already gave the news that the America we know is getting weaker, poorer because it is being over run with "others" ( Mexicans, Muslims, Elites,sexual identities other than straight fill in the blanks).They were told that American constitution is because of Judeo Christian Practices, even though the formation of it was a direct response to the persecution of the Founding fathers from those established religious interpretation at that time. Its intent was to allow all religions yet not have a dominant religion be in charge.
Mr Trump is just stating openly what used to be sugar coated. The underlying principles of the lies has already been signed, sealed and delivered. The majority of the people when they are asked to choose in a visceral question of "with our own or against our own, will choose the former.
The people who are in the traditional politics are not getting the fact that, historically, whenever an election is us versus them, and there are more us, more will win.
Mr Trump is going to be the America's next President.
The most watched cable news program in US, the most listened to radio shows on the drive to and from work, the "news" media they listen to already gave the news that the America we know is getting weaker, poorer because it is being over run with "others" ( Mexicans, Muslims, Elites,sexual identities other than straight fill in the blanks).They were told that American constitution is because of Judeo Christian Practices, even though the formation of it was a direct response to the persecution of the Founding fathers from those established religious interpretation at that time. Its intent was to allow all religions yet not have a dominant religion be in charge.
Mr Trump is just stating openly what used to be sugar coated. The underlying principles of the lies has already been signed, sealed and delivered. The majority of the people when they are asked to choose in a visceral question of "with our own or against our own, will choose the former.
The people who are in the traditional politics are not getting the fact that, historically, whenever an election is us versus them, and there are more us, more will win.
Mr Trump is going to be the America's next President.
9
I know most will accuse me of being a Democrat or a Hillary supporter. This could not be further from the truth. This election is perhaps one of the most critical simply because we don't have a candidate that truly embodies the greatness that is America. On one hand, we have a woman who is cold, calculating, and reckless. The average American voter simply cannot connect with her. On the other hand, we have a man who puffs out chest, combs his hair, and yells sensationally. He is nothing more than an entertainer.
The paucity of options available to us is actually shocking given the importance of the job at hand -- a job that involves running a country, securing and strengthening an economy, maintaining and improving upon diplomatic relations with our world partners, fortifying progress in technology and education, and contributing to help keep the world safe.
I simply urge you and others to keep an open mind in this election and to ask critical questions, not be swayed by the garbage that our candidates and media routinely thrust in our faces.
The paucity of options available to us is actually shocking given the importance of the job at hand -- a job that involves running a country, securing and strengthening an economy, maintaining and improving upon diplomatic relations with our world partners, fortifying progress in technology and education, and contributing to help keep the world safe.
I simply urge you and others to keep an open mind in this election and to ask critical questions, not be swayed by the garbage that our candidates and media routinely thrust in our faces.
@naive
There are so many holes in your arguments about why Trump will be America's next President, that it's difficult to know where to start -- You appear to be operating under the delusion that the vast majority of the American people are racist bigots.....And for that reason alone, I truly hope you are wrong.
There are so many holes in your arguments about why Trump will be America's next President, that it's difficult to know where to start -- You appear to be operating under the delusion that the vast majority of the American people are racist bigots.....And for that reason alone, I truly hope you are wrong.
4
Every one of us is a minority somewhere on this shrinking planet.
2
Kristof has become an emo, teenage sentimental hack. I read his pieces for the comedy of his self-induced naivety.
That said, it is still repulsive that he would take the time and be given the space to suggest that one liar's lies are less disqualifying than another's. I am not even sure if this is actually effective Clinton apologetics. Can a lawyer actually win a case by saying that the murder used a small knife versus a large one?
Any chance that Kristof is planning to retire?
That said, it is still repulsive that he would take the time and be given the space to suggest that one liar's lies are less disqualifying than another's. I am not even sure if this is actually effective Clinton apologetics. Can a lawyer actually win a case by saying that the murder used a small knife versus a large one?
Any chance that Kristof is planning to retire?
26
Terrific stuff...HC blames the DNC email hack on Putin, knowing it was a big fat lie, and people in this space still consider her a viable candidate? How can provoking a world leader like Putin with a total fabrication be considered presidential?
Cuckoo...Cuckoo...Cuckoo
Cuckoo...Cuckoo...Cuckoo
3
Puritanism is a lie too.
Since when is obeying religious rules (i.e. 10 commandments ...) and living a modest life, both parts of Puritanism, a lie?
[start the circus music....]
[start the circus music....]
I am uncomfortable with this title. Deceptive practice should not be excused - whether acting as a public official or as a business person. The candidates being presented to the voters in this upcoming election are a disgrace.
19
I hope you're learning why most sane people stay out of US politics here.
2
Let's have instant fact checks (realizing the fact checkers may need to be fact checked) on all of us.
Apparently some people believe human memory is perfect. And that human communication is perfect. There certainly can be no room for nuance or interpretation. And certainly facts don't evolve as more information is discovered.
What did you eat for lunch 3 weeks ago? What did you say in last year's meeting? Have you ever been interviewed on live TV with surprise questions?
You have a thousand emails in your ISP backup files. What did you say in email 467?
A variety of folks here watched the FBI hearing. Apparently everybody heard something different. Which is true? Which is an error? Which is a deliberate lie? Which is a exaggeration?
It's why we invented paper.
Cheers.
Apparently some people believe human memory is perfect. And that human communication is perfect. There certainly can be no room for nuance or interpretation. And certainly facts don't evolve as more information is discovered.
What did you eat for lunch 3 weeks ago? What did you say in last year's meeting? Have you ever been interviewed on live TV with surprise questions?
You have a thousand emails in your ISP backup files. What did you say in email 467?
A variety of folks here watched the FBI hearing. Apparently everybody heard something different. Which is true? Which is an error? Which is a deliberate lie? Which is a exaggeration?
It's why we invented paper.
Cheers.
In my lifetime there have been two or perhaps three presidents who were truthful and possessed a strong moral compass: Harry S Truman, Jimmy Carter and perhaps Gerald Ford. The others were fornicators, adulterers, prevaricators or outright crooks. I would suggest that Secretary Clinton is no worse and no better than most who have occupied the Oval Office since the 1940's. At better than a lie a minute Mr. Trump is certainly in the big leagues.
13
Generally agree. But which in the string of your adjectives applies to Mr. Reagan?
1
Mr. Trump is already in the big leagues in your mind? Building real estate is on par with Governor of New York and Secretary of State? Yes, quite. BTW, do you know what Secretary of State does?
Sorry, my post meant to say "New York Senator" and Secretary of State. Even better.
I watch in fascination as Hillary Clinton continues to receive low marks for trustworthiness, sometimes. When she is actually in office, her numbers are relatively good. I have checked analysis after analysis about Clinton's truthfulness and found that she is at least as truthful as everyone else, and significantly more truthful that most Republicans who ran for president this year. There are two possible conclusions to draw. Either it is tougher for a woman to be judged positively, or the twenty-five years of Republican "tantrum" about her truthfulness are wrong. I believe that Herman Goering once commented about how a leader could make people believe a big lie simply by repeating it. I therefore offer as evidence, the twenty-five year Republican trope that Hillary is untrustworthy and a liar. That is the real big lie. And like Trump, Republicans are not afraid to lie. And Republicans as liars is my trope.
49
There is a Big Lie here, but it is the claim that Hillary really isn't a constant liar, that it is all a Republican invention.
8
A 3rd possibility: she is really, really good at lying.
A 4th possibility: her fans are naive
A 5th possibility: she is protected by a vanguard of political cronies who are riding her coat tails ever since she and Obama worked out her appointment to Secretary of State for her endorsement and his endorsement for this election was put into the works.
A 6th possibility: all of the above; perhaps, the result of being fascinated by Clinton.
A 4th possibility: her fans are naive
A 5th possibility: she is protected by a vanguard of political cronies who are riding her coat tails ever since she and Obama worked out her appointment to Secretary of State for her endorsement and his endorsement for this election was put into the works.
A 6th possibility: all of the above; perhaps, the result of being fascinated by Clinton.
4
H-Rod is many things, among which she is a liar. The Reps are painting her solely as a liar, and she is doing her best to support that view. She just might have "short-circuited" her campaign.
I look forward to the debates wherein she tries to explain away her lies and The Donald just dismisses it as more lies.
The Donald has no interest in the nature of truth, so he really may not be "lying," but only promoting a version of reality, such as "creationism." This isn't a lie; it is just a fantasy, as is his claims about everything.
I look forward to the debates wherein she tries to explain away her lies and The Donald just dismisses it as more lies.
The Donald has no interest in the nature of truth, so he really may not be "lying," but only promoting a version of reality, such as "creationism." This isn't a lie; it is just a fantasy, as is his claims about everything.
1
One of the reasons Trump won the primaries is that the other candidates got angry and lost their composure. Most of the comments here are very angry. bordering on hysterical. So this is what we do. We take a deep breath and look back at all that has happened since Trump entered the race and we figure out what hurts him. Surely it isn't misstatements or even lies. Rather, his poll numbers have dipped four times and always because of offensive statements he made about folks he doesn't like. Most recently the Khans, before that the judge in his civil case, before that Megyn Kelly, and before that the disabled journalist. This has strategy implications. Trump, too, falters when he gets angry. Find a bunch of sympathetic folks who are not Trump types, let them spout off. and it should be a short road to the White House.
14
How do we know Clinton is only telling Fibs?
Doesn't it matter if she really learned her lesson from Iraq? From her other Middle-east advocacy it would appear she has not remotely learned the risks of regime change. Even the NYTimes did a piece on how much more hawkish she is than Obama, and he has not remotely lived up to his campaign positions on fruitless wars. The war thing alone is a deal breaker for me.
Doesn't it matter if she really objects to corporate-friendly terms in trade agreements?
Doesn't it matter if she really moved her positions on minimum wages, education debt and single-payer health insurance?
Doesn't it matter that she says she realizes that she needs to work on the wide perception that she can't be trusted, then when presented a question about her statements on what the director of the FBI really said about her email server - a question she had to know was coming - she answers in a way that emphasizes that she and the truth seem to be incompatible?
Just how blind are voters willing to be?
On the truth front, neither of the top two are acceptable.
We really could just all stand up and say we are not going to take this from our major parties: just make up our minds to vote for one of the third party candidates. The change in polling data should rapidly signal approaching disaster to both parties, giving them the chance to encourage these unqualified candidates to step aside for someone who has at least a passing acquaintance with the truth.
Doesn't it matter if she really learned her lesson from Iraq? From her other Middle-east advocacy it would appear she has not remotely learned the risks of regime change. Even the NYTimes did a piece on how much more hawkish she is than Obama, and he has not remotely lived up to his campaign positions on fruitless wars. The war thing alone is a deal breaker for me.
Doesn't it matter if she really objects to corporate-friendly terms in trade agreements?
Doesn't it matter if she really moved her positions on minimum wages, education debt and single-payer health insurance?
Doesn't it matter that she says she realizes that she needs to work on the wide perception that she can't be trusted, then when presented a question about her statements on what the director of the FBI really said about her email server - a question she had to know was coming - she answers in a way that emphasizes that she and the truth seem to be incompatible?
Just how blind are voters willing to be?
On the truth front, neither of the top two are acceptable.
We really could just all stand up and say we are not going to take this from our major parties: just make up our minds to vote for one of the third party candidates. The change in polling data should rapidly signal approaching disaster to both parties, giving them the chance to encourage these unqualified candidates to step aside for someone who has at least a passing acquaintance with the truth.
14
Ken,
Agreed. But both bases don't seem to care. They expect and accept that their candidates and Gov. will lie and cheat them. Just as they live their lives. Just as they told the Unicorn Club in the primaries. Hooray for American exceptionalism.
Agreed. But both bases don't seem to care. They expect and accept that their candidates and Gov. will lie and cheat them. Just as they live their lives. Just as they told the Unicorn Club in the primaries. Hooray for American exceptionalism.
3
Hey! There are two alternatives. The choices need not be Manichean.
Alternatively, one can frame the other candidates as one who believes in the curative powers of pot and one who is against vaccinations.
Alternatively, one can frame the other candidates as one who believes in the curative powers of pot and one who is against vaccinations.
2
Name me a President since Harry Truman that hasn't been a liar, manipulator and power hungry maniac. That's what Presidents do and one cannot become the President unless they possess these traits.
However, you miss the point completely...nobody cares. Face the reality. The American electorate always gets what it deserves, witness the Congress we have had for the last few decades.
However, you miss the point completely...nobody cares. Face the reality. The American electorate always gets what it deserves, witness the Congress we have had for the last few decades.
4
jonathan,
Agreed with the last paragraph. However I will throw out Carter to refute your opening sentence. But I could be wrong.
Agreed with the last paragraph. However I will throw out Carter to refute your opening sentence. But I could be wrong.
2
Jimmy Carter
2
Just wish that, during HRC's press conference with Hispanic and African American journalists, a brave soul had asked following question:"Sec. Clinton,did it ever occur to u that in order to truly understand ME, one must understand its cultures and therefore languages which underpin them, and that it would have behooved u to learn Arabic and Farsi to gain a better grasp of complexities of that world?How can u deal effectively with ME if u do not even speak kitchen Arabic or r unable to follow everyday conversations in Farsi?Clinton has an Arabic speaking aide who could have provided tutorial help.O is equally unversed in ME languages, so he is hardly a role model. Question never came, but would be one of primordial importance, especially compared to e mail controversy which John Q. Public does not understand and, in most cases, couldn't care less about.
I think I speak for most sane Americans when I say this.
I will take a well qualified, disciplined, intelligent, mature, pro-choice, anti-NRA, pro-equal pay, pro-affordable collage tuition, pro-immigration reformer, pro-gay rights, pro-affordable healthcare candidate for president who may have used her email server in a way that is NOW against the protocols of a government official verses a child-man who has continually proven with all his statements, his lack of diplomacy, his name calling, being easily provoked when he feels personally attacked and the need to "hit back hard" when he is, to be unfit to hold the nuclear codes.
And CNN just aired a piece about the actual size of his hands....they are infact much smaller than most men's hands.
I will take a well qualified, disciplined, intelligent, mature, pro-choice, anti-NRA, pro-equal pay, pro-affordable collage tuition, pro-immigration reformer, pro-gay rights, pro-affordable healthcare candidate for president who may have used her email server in a way that is NOW against the protocols of a government official verses a child-man who has continually proven with all his statements, his lack of diplomacy, his name calling, being easily provoked when he feels personally attacked and the need to "hit back hard" when he is, to be unfit to hold the nuclear codes.
And CNN just aired a piece about the actual size of his hands....they are infact much smaller than most men's hands.
42
But his mouth is bigger!
1
The message you are communicating is too important to be "muddled" or 'clouded: through the use of words like: inveterate, mendacity, prevarication, incendiary. Mr. Trump's pathological propensity to lie is no laughing matter. Unfortunately, it is totally plausible that this sociopathic liar will be the next POTUS. Stay on message. Clearly and succinctly. The information and insights you are sharing are of great import. The political situation in this country is no laughing matter.
8
Niether of the mainstream candidates is a pillar of honesty. Both are professional liars, probably true of most politicians. But, is it fair to compare lying to the FBI to lying about the number of rooms in your apartment?
13
And Clonton's lie to the FBI was? Lying to the FBI is a federal, criminal offense. Why didn't they charge her?
3
@staud
It looks like you're only getting half of the picture by your comparison.
There is alot more to the picture than "lying to the FBI" and "lying about the number of rooms" in one's apartment.
It looks like you're only getting half of the picture by your comparison.
There is alot more to the picture than "lying to the FBI" and "lying about the number of rooms" in one's apartment.
1
It is fair to compare lying about one issue to lying every time he opens his mouth. The Truth is not big enough for Donald - real life isn't big enough for Donald - so he has to create his own world of lies to feed his ego. It is pathological lying that he can't help and it is a mental disorder.
Actually the FBI Director stated she was truthful in their interviews. He said he could not speak to her Confressional testimony.
I know, splitting hairs.
I know, splitting hairs.
17
Comey said he had "no basis to conclude she lied to the FBI." That's not the same as claiming she told the truth. If he believed she told the truth, he would have said so.
4
Human communication is full of methodological issues. Did I remember something correctly or incorrectly? Did I exaggerate a bit? Did I get the wrong information in the first place? Was I using a metaphor? Was I deliberately falsifying the facts? Am I guessing? Did I fail to remember a 3 year old email I skimmed the first paragraph of and forwarded at 0300 hrs in a stack of 60,000 emails?
Some of the things Comey said were inaccurate. Was he misinformed, ignorant, or lying?
Since he is a lawyer I suggest (aka guess) he was parsing his language very carefully. He cannot guess at veracity nor intent.
Which is why I said "splitting hairs."
Some of the things Comey said were inaccurate. Was he misinformed, ignorant, or lying?
Since he is a lawyer I suggest (aka guess) he was parsing his language very carefully. He cannot guess at veracity nor intent.
Which is why I said "splitting hairs."
3
What a sad comment section.
My fellow Dems, driven most likely by fear and a dash of sloth are behaving no differently then the silent majorities backing Richard Nixon & Ronald Reagan.
Granted that the Repugs have stigmatized Hill for over twenty years.
Yet, that cannot reverse the fact that her private server was a terrible thing for any public servant to do. She obviously did it for the same reason Dick Nixon had his taping operation... Megalomania.
How can people who define themselves as "Progressives" ignore her three miserable experiences with Regime Change?
How can you dismiss her pride for being a mentee of Henry Kissinger?
How can you live with her dirty works in Honduras?
How can you read this paper's piece on Sec. Clinton, a Russian uranium deal and the Clinton Foundation and not feel the need for a shower.
What the commenters and Nick don't seem to realize, is that next time a Republican president comes along with that same kind of toxic baggage, you shall be lacking the moral and ethical "chops" to protest.
I think that this period is little different than our brush with fascism right after 9/11 and the decision to invade Iraq.
My fellow Dems, driven most likely by fear and a dash of sloth are behaving no differently then the silent majorities backing Richard Nixon & Ronald Reagan.
Granted that the Repugs have stigmatized Hill for over twenty years.
Yet, that cannot reverse the fact that her private server was a terrible thing for any public servant to do. She obviously did it for the same reason Dick Nixon had his taping operation... Megalomania.
How can people who define themselves as "Progressives" ignore her three miserable experiences with Regime Change?
How can you dismiss her pride for being a mentee of Henry Kissinger?
How can you live with her dirty works in Honduras?
How can you read this paper's piece on Sec. Clinton, a Russian uranium deal and the Clinton Foundation and not feel the need for a shower.
What the commenters and Nick don't seem to realize, is that next time a Republican president comes along with that same kind of toxic baggage, you shall be lacking the moral and ethical "chops" to protest.
I think that this period is little different than our brush with fascism right after 9/11 and the decision to invade Iraq.
15
I think that the 2020 election is going to be a lot of fun to watch. The Democrats are (I think) 4 years behind the Republicans in this respect: their revolution was crushed by the Democrat party hacks and the Clinton machine. This time. I don't think the hacks will get away with it again.
The Republican revolution is already well underway; the grassroots folks have clearly indicated that they are fed up with a Republican party that is, for all intents, indistinguishable from the Democratic party. Both parties have abandoned their roots and are now serving the corporatists, to the enormous detriment of the average citizen. That Trump rose is more an indication of a desire for change, and a desire for a leader who is not an entrenched and untrustworthy insider.
Have to feel bad for the Dems, in that regard. Clinton is in deep with the money folks, yet that fact falls away like water off a ducks back. Well contrived lies have their value.
The Republican revolution is already well underway; the grassroots folks have clearly indicated that they are fed up with a Republican party that is, for all intents, indistinguishable from the Democratic party. Both parties have abandoned their roots and are now serving the corporatists, to the enormous detriment of the average citizen. That Trump rose is more an indication of a desire for change, and a desire for a leader who is not an entrenched and untrustworthy insider.
Have to feel bad for the Dems, in that regard. Clinton is in deep with the money folks, yet that fact falls away like water off a ducks back. Well contrived lies have their value.
9
Equating private server to a case of megalomania is an agenda-driven hyperbole and false comparison. Who does not want to protect the privacy of their correspondence with family and not want such correspondence be acquired under the freedom of information act? Ask the movie stars hounded by paparazzi - the situation here is similar. Particularly after being hounded by the political opposition for very many years. Hillary did not appear to want to learn a new e-mail system - a sign that she is technologically challenged like many grandmas are, not that she is devious. It appears that she has taken care to avoid sending or receiving classified mail over her personal email - only less than 0.3% were described as classified by the FBI director. You can question her judgment perhaps, because no matter how much care you may take, some classified material may slip through because somebody sent it to you or you were momentarily distracted when sending that email. So judgment - yes, but this is not a case of megalomania.
12
Liberal hypocrisy. Well deserved label.
2
Mr. Kristof you forgot to mention Trumps biggest lies: 1.) Telling innocent Americans who want to better themselves that Trump University" is legitimate and having them fork over 30k in tuition. That is called fraud and stealing. It's the worst kind of a lie that involves stealing money. It's called deception.
2.) Trump promised to pay people he worked for him x amount of dollars and then told them to take a lesser amount or nothing at all. Again that's deception.
2.) Trump promised to pay people he worked for him x amount of dollars and then told them to take a lesser amount or nothing at all. Again that's deception.
31
What's really very telling about Trump is your #1 is clear definition of a predator. He sees all around him as potential prey, while not killing and maiming he sees the money as really his if he can take it..by whatever means.
3
Here is what I do not understand: fewer than 10 of her work related emails were found to contain some classified information. It isn’t even certain all of those were classified when she sent them. Why isn’t this her response? “I sent 29,990 emails which did not contain classified information according to the FBI. A handful did. Obviously I misspoke when I stated I never sent classified emails but those numbers ought to confirm that it was never my practice or habit to send classified information. I was wrong in my assertion but 7 out of 30,000 should reflect my intent.” She misspoke but she didn’t lie.
The media has made this a much bigger deal than it is.
The media has made this a much bigger deal than it is.
53
Charles Willard: If someone gave you 30,000 pieces of candy that appeared identical and told you that seven of them were poisonous and would kill you, would you eat any of them? I wouldn't! Richard Nixon lied to cover up for his friends and colleagues and would have been impeached for it had he not resigned, yet nobody died over Watergate. The FBI director told us that HRC compromised our national security by using a private email server. Congressional hearings proved that HRC lied to the public and to the families of the victims of the Benghazi attack about its cause. Shouldn't that disqualify someone from becoming Commander in Chief?
3
Truth has a way of wanting to come out. Because truth IS. the truth about the Iraq war came out, later rather than sooner, but it did come out. And we are still waiting for George Bush junior to be held responsible for his lies that shook the entire world and turned lives of generations, upside down.
19
Think about this. In the case of the Khans, Trump asked why Mrs. Khan was silent.
Hillary on the other hand VOTED for the war in which Humayun Khan died.
Why is it fair that Trump is the bad person here?
But if the media present him as the ogre then he becomes the ogre in the mind of the public. And Trump lacks the finesse to extricate himself.
I do not plan to vote for him, he is too impulsive, like a 2 year old.
But that does not make him an ogre in reality.
Hillary on the other hand VOTED for the war in which Humayun Khan died.
Why is it fair that Trump is the bad person here?
But if the media present him as the ogre then he becomes the ogre in the mind of the public. And Trump lacks the finesse to extricate himself.
I do not plan to vote for him, he is too impulsive, like a 2 year old.
But that does not make him an ogre in reality.
7
The Khan's anger is misdirected. If I were his parent, I would be angry at the Bush-Cheney administration for sending my son off to a fraudulent war, and angry with all those in Congress, including Hillary, who swallowed false evidence, hook line and sinker, and bellowed "gung ho!"
13
But his fraud and cheating does.
8
Have you ever heard of apples and oranges? The classic straw man argument...take the issue and compare it to something completely different and call it worse.
Ms. Clinton was a Senator and required to cast a vote. She did - and she never voted for the war (read her statement o the floor of the Senate) - she voted for additional intelligence to determine IF a war was necessary (Mr. Bush took those Congressional votes and ran directly into war.). Ms. Kahn is and always was a mother of a young man who literally gave his life for others. How can you even compare the two?
Now let's talk about Mr. Trump and his bold/bald/bare faced lies day after day after day - to make American Angry - Again. He is despicable, plain and simple.
Ms. Clinton was a Senator and required to cast a vote. She did - and she never voted for the war (read her statement o the floor of the Senate) - she voted for additional intelligence to determine IF a war was necessary (Mr. Bush took those Congressional votes and ran directly into war.). Ms. Kahn is and always was a mother of a young man who literally gave his life for others. How can you even compare the two?
Now let's talk about Mr. Trump and his bold/bald/bare faced lies day after day after day - to make American Angry - Again. He is despicable, plain and simple.
9
The huge lies are the ones about Hillary's record, which I see over and over.
Benghazi? Investigation after investigation costing millions of dollars found no wrongdoing, but she's still at fault. The emails? The Republican-appointed FBI director found no evidence of deliberate wrongdoing, and refused to suggest indictment, but somehow he's wrong.
She's been accused of crimes up and including murder, yet she's never been convicted of anything. She's been criticized for not leaving Bill, but her marriage is her own business, period.
I've never understood the white-hot hatred directed at Hillary, who's been in public service her whole life. My guess is a lot of it is misogyny, confirmed by the horrible name calling aimed at her gender, not her politics. Some of it is caused by the sheer irrationality by people who actually state she's never accomplished anything in her life, and refuse to acknowledge the facts.
These people will always be around, but it's my sincere hope they're a minority, and Hillary Clinton will be elected President of the United States.
Benghazi? Investigation after investigation costing millions of dollars found no wrongdoing, but she's still at fault. The emails? The Republican-appointed FBI director found no evidence of deliberate wrongdoing, and refused to suggest indictment, but somehow he's wrong.
She's been accused of crimes up and including murder, yet she's never been convicted of anything. She's been criticized for not leaving Bill, but her marriage is her own business, period.
I've never understood the white-hot hatred directed at Hillary, who's been in public service her whole life. My guess is a lot of it is misogyny, confirmed by the horrible name calling aimed at her gender, not her politics. Some of it is caused by the sheer irrationality by people who actually state she's never accomplished anything in her life, and refuse to acknowledge the facts.
These people will always be around, but it's my sincere hope they're a minority, and Hillary Clinton will be elected President of the United States.
54
By turning a blind eye to the lies ABOUT Secretary Clinton, means instant acceptance into the tribe that hates HRC for unknown reasons other than a.) She is a woman b.) She is a Democrat and c.) she is a smart, powerful woman Democrat. Lets face it, people spouting these lies want to join the club
5
Google
We came, we saw, he died video.
No Republicans there, just Hillary
We came, we saw, he died video.
No Republicans there, just Hillary
2
There's an age-old axiom that is profoundly simple, inescapably true, and it goes like this: "Spot it, got it."
Devoid of self-examination, the snake finds it has sunk its fangs in its own tail....and so it goes for Ms. Clinton's detractors, a laughably pathetic scenario, at least 20 years and running.
And brought to you by the self-professed Party of Higher Morals and Personal Responsibility. Hmmmm....
Devoid of self-examination, the snake finds it has sunk its fangs in its own tail....and so it goes for Ms. Clinton's detractors, a laughably pathetic scenario, at least 20 years and running.
And brought to you by the self-professed Party of Higher Morals and Personal Responsibility. Hmmmm....
3
And Nicholas Kristof is pathologically biased. I understand that this is an opinion piece. I also know that we cannot expunge subjectivity from the way we view reality. However, this does not prevent us from striving to reach a point of view that we and others can consider objective. You do this by reaching out to others, by including their positions and creating a more comprehensive view of reality that shows the object from different perspectives. It is sad that Kristof does not even attempt to do so.
6
It's an op-ed piece, not a news article.
1
Commenter Kevin Egan’s quotation from The London Review of Books accurately puts Mrs. Clinton’s travails in perspective; a perspective obviously missing from Trump statements. The degree to which Trump misspeaks is so great that perhaps the Times could provide a review of the validity of the candidates’ daily statements in a squib like the “Daily Briefing.” Of course it would also help considerably if fact checkers sat in the laps of speech writer’s.
8
And our choice for President comes down to who is the least worse liar? Jesus wept! And so will the Founding Fathers. Only a totally corrupt system could produce this result.
8
It is our primary system.
Two half truths do not make a whole truth, just a choice of two half truths, or as in 2016, a choice between two lies.
Two half truths do not make a whole truth, just a choice of two half truths, or as in 2016, a choice between two lies.
Ha! You surely are not suggesting that our Founding Fathers never lied, are you? And you would know that - how? Fact Checks didn't exists back then, but I'll bet there is plenty of history to confirm the lies they did tell.
We are run by a politic system - when we change that then your purity tests will be important. Until then, we go with the best we have. Donald Trump can never be considered under that standard.
We are run by a politic system - when we change that then your purity tests will be important. Until then, we go with the best we have. Donald Trump can never be considered under that standard.
3
America is ready for a new birth, compliments of the Founding Mothers.
1
The difference between Mr. Trump and Mrs. Clinton is that Hillary's lies were under oath, under penalty of perjury, which should have subjected her to indictment, trial and a long stay at a federal penitentiary. Trump's lies subject him to the NYT fact checker.
16
Trump has lied under oath many times, in the over 3000 trials he has been part of in his trainwreck of a"career."
14
Clinton is a public servant. Trump is a private citizen. She has access to ALL intelligence information, briefings, etc. He had to get his information from the news like everyone else.
Yet somehow Trump is held to the same standard as Clinton? That's simply a desperate attempt to elevate Clinton to a level where people could actually bring themselves to vote for her. In order to do this, they have to make her opponent completely unacceptable, which is why they are running an all out campaign to do so now.
Trump at his worst is still not as bad as Hillary.
Yet somehow Trump is held to the same standard as Clinton? That's simply a desperate attempt to elevate Clinton to a level where people could actually bring themselves to vote for her. In order to do this, they have to make her opponent completely unacceptable, which is why they are running an all out campaign to do so now.
Trump at his worst is still not as bad as Hillary.
4
Maybe. But we know from Bill Clinton that perjury in civil cases is a career enhancer.
2
No Hillary is not a normal liar in the political arena. She was Secretary of State not a small office and lied to the American people. Trump is the regular type politician. Hillary in her past position very likely put lives at risk and exposed the nations secrets to outside hostile parties. Non of what Trump has said even comes close to what Hillary did and lied about it. Trump is talk but Hillary's performance then and now is what makes her more untrustworthy.
9
I think this column did a poor job but there are numerous responses that Herr Dumpf (that is good enough to steal) actually believes what he is saying. Wouldn't that make him demented?
1
I am not convinced. Trump indeed makes misstatement after misstatement, But few are lies. Mostly he gets things wrong because he is ill-informed, delusional, and does not know what he is talking about.
4
Agreed. He's uninformed. He's never been in government and has no access to briefings, etc., like every other candidate.
What's Hillary's excuse for lying?
What's Hillary's excuse for lying?
4
So they're not lies because he's too stupid to know that what he's saying is untrue? That's truly comforting.
2
If you look up "self-promotion" in the dictionary Donald Trump's picture should come up as the poster boy and a world class artist at this endeavor.
As born and bred NYer I've listened to "The Donald" say or boast about things for decades. At the time, none of us really paid attention. Really, who cared!
Now he's running for president of the United States... really!!!
Here's my prediction, some one take note of the date, I've said this before but not in print. Donald Trump does NOT want to be President! No one with half a brain would say and do and repeatedly deny things he does every time he opens his mouth. He's doing his "self-promotion" on a grand scale on a scale never before offered to him, and International audience.
My prediction is this. Donald will lose, Hillary will win and somewhere around January 18th Trump, who is already planning this will release his newest book where he confesses to saying the most outrageous things and still having Americans back him for office. He'll confess that he had no interest but the whole thing snowballed and put him in the race and the only way out was to continuously do and say incredibly stupid things! Millions will buy the book and he'll eventually be as rich as he claims to be!
You heard it here...
As born and bred NYer I've listened to "The Donald" say or boast about things for decades. At the time, none of us really paid attention. Really, who cared!
Now he's running for president of the United States... really!!!
Here's my prediction, some one take note of the date, I've said this before but not in print. Donald Trump does NOT want to be President! No one with half a brain would say and do and repeatedly deny things he does every time he opens his mouth. He's doing his "self-promotion" on a grand scale on a scale never before offered to him, and International audience.
My prediction is this. Donald will lose, Hillary will win and somewhere around January 18th Trump, who is already planning this will release his newest book where he confesses to saying the most outrageous things and still having Americans back him for office. He'll confess that he had no interest but the whole thing snowballed and put him in the race and the only way out was to continuously do and say incredibly stupid things! Millions will buy the book and he'll eventually be as rich as he claims to be!
You heard it here...
10
I am no fan of Donald Trump and will not vote for him but I also think there is a qualitative difference between Trump's lies and Clinton's lies that both favors and condemns him.
In Trump's case, he is an out of control narcissistic blowhard. He says what he thinks at that moment and most of his lies are so obvious it's hard to think anyone would believe them.
Clinton on the other hand is more calculated. Her lies are intended to have at least a veneer of plausibility - like her claim that FBI director Comey said she had been "truthful" which even the Washington Post gave "4 Pinocchios." Her lies are also intended to cover up her own corruption, as in creating a home email server to avoid FOIA requirements.
So Trump's lies reflect personality defects that make him unqualified to be president. Clinton's lies reflect a calculating politician who might make a good president - just as Nixon was a good president if you ignore his crimes.
In Trump's case, he is an out of control narcissistic blowhard. He says what he thinks at that moment and most of his lies are so obvious it's hard to think anyone would believe them.
Clinton on the other hand is more calculated. Her lies are intended to have at least a veneer of plausibility - like her claim that FBI director Comey said she had been "truthful" which even the Washington Post gave "4 Pinocchios." Her lies are also intended to cover up her own corruption, as in creating a home email server to avoid FOIA requirements.
So Trump's lies reflect personality defects that make him unqualified to be president. Clinton's lies reflect a calculating politician who might make a good president - just as Nixon was a good president if you ignore his crimes.
11
I agree with how you characterize these two, but I disagree about your conclusion from it. As good as Nixon? He was run out of office for this particular personality defect, the paranoid liar in him -- it was the coverup, not the crime.
8
Of all columnists ~~ I expected more of Kristof. Raising people up on some type of relative evaluation instead of absolute standards. Quite sad.
4
Have you noticed how just recently Trump has adopted a new tactic to attack Hillary? He is regurgitating the very same accusations and criticisms being made against him and re-directing them at Hillary. It's so ridiculous. But that's what we've come to expect from the "Liar-in-Chief, Donald Trump.. The man has lost it and confirms, once again, he has no conscience, no moral compass. He truly is an "empty suit".
5
Mike B. - "Have you noticed...He is regurgitating the very same accusations and criticisms being made against him and re-directing them at Hillary."
Have you noticed that the Democratic Party has been doing the exact same thing or are you blinded by partisan politics?
Have you noticed that the Democratic Party has been doing the exact same thing or are you blinded by partisan politics?
5
He's practicing a new form of plagiarism. Just steal from the accurate descriptions being lobbed at you. And throw them back!
He can't even come up with his own defense! This getting hilarious.
So start calling him a fruitcake. And just wait...
He can't even come up with his own defense! This getting hilarious.
So start calling him a fruitcake. And just wait...
4
Your partisanship is blinding you to the obvious. Americans have witnessed firsthand Donald Trump's unraveling. It has been Donald Trump's poor judgement and lack of self-control that has created a tidal wave of criticism in his direction. All one has to do is watch and read the news to come to this conclusion. Hillary has simply been echoing everything that has already been exposed concerning Donald Trump's mental state by both independent news groups and the public at large. Your own party has acknowledged as much. So, you are wrong. The criticisms now being levied at Donald Trump are of his own making and nothing else. Period.
3
The fact that a column like this is being written shows how frayed our common perception of truth and what is real has become. It's now just about impossible to have a constructive debate because the two sides can't even agree on the facts that need to be debated.
6
Nicholas, don't confuse the Hillary haters with the facts.
7
kim - Exactly what "facts" do you mean? Do you honestly think that Hillary doesn't lie for her own gain, over and over again, year after year? One doesn't have to be a "Hillary hater" to be disgusted by her lies.
6
I recommended the article you replied to. Kim was spot-on. Twenty-five years of Republican smearing have created a group of people whose conclusions about Hillary Clinton are so burnished that reality simply bounces off them.
4
America loves the reality show, they've been the most watched television shows for for a generation. Reality shows are staged soap opera's that are made to appear real.
Is it any wonder that the GOP chose a reality star as their Candidate?
I don't think so.
Is it any wonder that the GOP chose a reality star as their Candidate?
I don't think so.
4
Uh. I have a problem with Hillary lying to the FBI while under investigation and then lying while asked about her lying . Also her lies are insidious. The Donald is simply not a threat at all with his lies. He is open and will self destruct if nothing else, as he is doing. His pride, stubbornness, narcissism, and inexperience are out there for all to see and woe to us if we don't take note. She and her husband, on the other hand, navigate life playing by their own rules, taking what they want without having to pay the price that the rest of us pay. White Water, Monica Lewinsky, Jennifer Flowers, Benghazi, the email controversy, the Clinton Foundation, the Loretta Lynch meeting on the tarmac, etc.
15
Except that Director Comey said in the hearing that she did not lie to the FBI. To have done so would be a crime. He said more than once that she did not lie.
2
Lying to protect someone else is one thing. Lying to advance your own interests is another. The former can often be justified, the latter cannot. When we fail to make the distinction, we get the politicians that we deserve.
2
Lying to protect yourself does not count.
In the case of she who I won't name, lying to protect the reputation of the lady is considered chivalrous by many.
Sometimes, whoppers are easily detectable, but telling different audiences different things on the same topic makes you wonder if you can believe anything.
Which leads back to the speech transcripts. We hear one story on financial industry regulation on the campaign trail, and the track record of inconsistent statements on the same topic calls for release of speech transcripts, including follow up Q&A.
I suspect that Wikileaks has them, and is waiting for the right time.
Which leads back to the speech transcripts. We hear one story on financial industry regulation on the campaign trail, and the track record of inconsistent statements on the same topic calls for release of speech transcripts, including follow up Q&A.
I suspect that Wikileaks has them, and is waiting for the right time.
5
Aren't you forgetting Trump's biggest lies of all? His campaign promises? Very few of the things he proposes to do can actually be done (the wall, for one)...why are empty promises designed to hoodwink voters not seen as lies? And more importantly, the worst kind of lies?
5
Here is a well-known quote: "The victor will never be asked if he told the truth." Who said it? Adolf Hitler.
4
When it comes to columns such as this one, I am reminded of Paul Simon's lyrics in the oh-so-old song "The Boxer":
'A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest...hmmmmmm hmmmmmm'
I have friends and acquaintances whose hatred for Hillary Clinton knows no bounds.
They are convinced she is a liar's liar and no amount of evidence that points to Trump's superiority in the lying department would convince them that Hillary Clinton's capacity to lie and deceive is unprecedented in all of human history.
'A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest...hmmmmmm hmmmmmm'
I have friends and acquaintances whose hatred for Hillary Clinton knows no bounds.
They are convinced she is a liar's liar and no amount of evidence that points to Trump's superiority in the lying department would convince them that Hillary Clinton's capacity to lie and deceive is unprecedented in all of human history.
2
Welll done.
Concerning TPP and Hillary's flip-flopping, I suppose we all want to pet the blue collar worker on the head and make him/her feel loved. We also like to continually repeat that trade deals are bad. Truly, I do not know whether they are or not but I am not sure can one prove or disprove the point mainly because where do we draw the boundary line on the argument. It is is true that one worker losing his job is devastating for his family and it seems crude to argue that everyone else got 2 pennies more in their standard of leaving. Multiply this by thousands and it is hard to draw a conclusion. Bad for whom?
One thing is for sure. Global trading is inevitable, just like nuclear energy. It is neither good nor bad in and of itself. It has more to do with how we handle the process (ahead of time, not after the fact).
There are, from time to time major inevitable readjustments taking place. Earthquakes would be examples. With respect to the working force affected by globalization, preventive policies would be nice. Job retraining etc., although messy, are one way, done of course ahead of time. Severance pay etc. Either we have a heart as a nation or we don't.
So, it is probably true that, for now, one will say that they are against TPP. But, realistically, I do not think this is a viable option. You cannot stop globalization. All you can do is anticipate and play it well.
One thing is for sure. Global trading is inevitable, just like nuclear energy. It is neither good nor bad in and of itself. It has more to do with how we handle the process (ahead of time, not after the fact).
There are, from time to time major inevitable readjustments taking place. Earthquakes would be examples. With respect to the working force affected by globalization, preventive policies would be nice. Job retraining etc., although messy, are one way, done of course ahead of time. Severance pay etc. Either we have a heart as a nation or we don't.
So, it is probably true that, for now, one will say that they are against TPP. But, realistically, I do not think this is a viable option. You cannot stop globalization. All you can do is anticipate and play it well.
4
The crowd that supports Trump does not mind lies, as long as the lies conform to their beliefs. This, of course, is how FOX News gained a following. Quite frankly, does a racist, sexist, xenophobe have many scruples in the first place?
8
Reminds me of the popular bumper sticker from when Bush was running for his second term: "When (Bill) Clinton Lied No One Died"
This time round one should substitute Hillary's name for Bush's and Trump's for Bill's.
Hillary's lies and misjudgment very possibly caused deaths or at best endangered people's lives. Think Benghazi, Libya, and likely hacked top secret emails.
This time round one should substitute Hillary's name for Bush's and Trump's for Bill's.
Hillary's lies and misjudgment very possibly caused deaths or at best endangered people's lives. Think Benghazi, Libya, and likely hacked top secret emails.
5
In response to Len Charlap I mention that READ wasn't presidential material. I meant Trump.
Yes, Donald is way out of her league with his outrageous whoppers and overall craziness.
But it "depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is" said no one in particular except for Hillary's hubby who loves the ladies too.
But it "depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is" said no one in particular except for Hillary's hubby who loves the ladies too.
3
Any weekend golfer can explain this. It's handicapped.
You can't expect an amateur and a pro to be held to the same standard.
Well you can expect it. But you'll be disappointed.
You can't expect an amateur and a pro to be held to the same standard.
Well you can expect it. But you'll be disappointed.
5
To paraphrase Barney Frank,"She's not perfect, but he's a narcissistic fascist".
21
But she has been actually responsible for many deaths of Libyans. Whereas we EXPECT (with good reason) that he might turn out to be a fascist.
But "might" is not the same as "did"
But "might" is not the same as "did"
From Jill Abramson, former editor of the NYT:
"As an editor I’ve launched investigations into her business dealings, her fundraising, her foundation and her marriage. As a reporter my stories stretch back to Whitewater. I’m not a favorite in Hillaryland. That makes what I want to say next surprising.
Hillary Clinton is fundamentally honest and trustworthy."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/28/hillary-clinton-ho...
"As an editor I’ve launched investigations into her business dealings, her fundraising, her foundation and her marriage. As a reporter my stories stretch back to Whitewater. I’m not a favorite in Hillaryland. That makes what I want to say next surprising.
Hillary Clinton is fundamentally honest and trustworthy."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/28/hillary-clinton-ho...
22
https://www.c-span.org/video/... The discussion about the emails being marked incorrectly is at approximately the 4:18:00 mark.
"We have no basis to conclude she lied to the FBI," Comey told House Oversight Chairman Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) during one of the hearing's opening exchanges.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/james-comey-testimony/2016/07/james-comey-...
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook
"We have no basis to conclude she lied to the FBI," Comey told House Oversight Chairman Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) during one of the hearing's opening exchanges.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/james-comey-testimony/2016/07/james-comey-...
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook
12
Trump's statements make people laugh. HRC's fibs make people die. And nobody laughs at/with HRC
4
Leaving aside that there is no evidence that HRC has made anyone die, do you think Donald Trump would have a bloodless presidency? A huge percentage of his rhetoric is based on his desire for revenge for any and all slights, no matter how petty. The guy is unstable, narcissistic and vindictive. He's promised his followers a presidency defined by anger and retribution; the implication of bloodshed is impossible to deny if one is being honest.
7
Thank you for your comment. The NYT is only trying to distort the truth in order to boost Hillary Clinton's credibility numbers. Google "Hillary Clinton and Haiti."
Her lies have made poor people poorer and caused the death of thousands of people. I do laugh when Trump stretch the truth. I know the truth is being stretched because it's in the realm of a joke and I get it.
The NYT is taking literally what Trump is saying whether it's a joke or not and attempting to use it against him. Nobody is drinking their kool aid except the last few remaining subscribers which are dwindling each day.
Her lies have made poor people poorer and caused the death of thousands of people. I do laugh when Trump stretch the truth. I know the truth is being stretched because it's in the realm of a joke and I get it.
The NYT is taking literally what Trump is saying whether it's a joke or not and attempting to use it against him. Nobody is drinking their kool aid except the last few remaining subscribers which are dwindling each day.
Trump hasn't ever been in a situation where lives have depended on his judgment. Do you seriously want to elect him and find out how he does?
6
The Republicans say, it is not the weapon, but the person who kills.
The Democrats say, it is not the person, but the weapon who kills.
Obama and Hillary illegally used the CIA to ship weapons from Benghazi, Libya to ME terrorists who shot down passenger planes. According to the Democrats it is the weapons that kill, not those terrorists. Who is responsible and how do you know what is a lie and a fib? What is the cause of killing, guns or people? It seems their is a double standard when it comes to lies, it depends on who is spinning the lie. I am sick and tired of all of the lies supported by the media. It's time to throw them out, throw them all out!
The Democrats say, it is not the person, but the weapon who kills.
Obama and Hillary illegally used the CIA to ship weapons from Benghazi, Libya to ME terrorists who shot down passenger planes. According to the Democrats it is the weapons that kill, not those terrorists. Who is responsible and how do you know what is a lie and a fib? What is the cause of killing, guns or people? It seems their is a double standard when it comes to lies, it depends on who is spinning the lie. I am sick and tired of all of the lies supported by the media. It's time to throw them out, throw them all out!
4
When asked if he supported the Iraq war, Trump said in 2002, "yeah, I guess so."
In 2004, 12 years ago he wrote a scathing attack on the Iraq war in Esquire.
In 2004, 12 years ago he wrote a scathing attack on the Iraq war in Esquire.
2
Why do so many of the folks who ride around in pickups flying big American flags flaunting pro-gun and jail-Hillary bumper stickers look like jailbirds themselves?
6
Keep beating that dead horse NY Times. We're not voting for either of them.
7
Who is "we"?
1
Honesty seems to be in the ear of the listener. If you have a prejudice to begin with you will often make up things to justify your prejudice. Some people view Trump as a truth teller so he in their eyes can tell no lies. They hate Clinton so she is the liar and nothing she might say can change this in the minds of detractors. This is why fact checking has very little impact for it requires that people give up their prejudices. For them it is difficult to admit you are wrong.
So Hillary haters will twist the facts to fit what they believe. The same is true for trump. He may lie or swindle you endlessly, but to admit that you were so gullible or mistaken requires that you were not the perfect person you thought yourself to be.
So Hillary haters will twist the facts to fit what they believe. The same is true for trump. He may lie or swindle you endlessly, but to admit that you were so gullible or mistaken requires that you were not the perfect person you thought yourself to be.
6
@just. Absolutely right. It's also called confirmation bias. When we believe something that isn't true, particularly something that supports our ideological predelictions, any attempt to correct our errors by pointing out the facts actually makes us believe the falsehood more fervently. It's kind of a discouraging trait of being human, actually.
1
Everyone balked when she called it the "Hillary Standard" on 60 Minutes but it is dead on. We expect her to be a magical sparkling unicorn yet we've tolerated mediocre male politicians from both sides of the aisle crafting policy for us for the last 200 years. Whenever a woman rises to power she is seen as suspect by her peers...she must have done SOMETHING to get there, she couldn't have just earned a seat at the table. So she's called a liar and crooked the GOP and a neoliberal, GOP lite sellout on the left. Neither critique has anything to do with her record or her policies.
20
So you're saying they're both liars.
5
Truth has been Trumped. Black is the new white.
Nixon nominated G. Harrold Carswell to SCOTUS in 1970. Sen. Hruska famously said,
"Even if he were mediocre, there are a lot of mediocre judges and people and lawyers. They are entitled to a little representation, aren't they, and a little chance? We can't have all Brandeises, Frankfurters and Cardozos.?"
We have seen that there are any number of psychopaths, self aggrandizers, pathological liars and worse among us. This is their chance for "...a little represenration..."
"Even if he were mediocre, there are a lot of mediocre judges and people and lawyers. They are entitled to a little representation, aren't they, and a little chance? We can't have all Brandeises, Frankfurters and Cardozos.?"
We have seen that there are any number of psychopaths, self aggrandizers, pathological liars and worse among us. This is their chance for "...a little represenration..."
2
...but, but, but she's a woman.
5
Has anyone noticed all the contributors who are using false names. Can you imagine what would happen to our credibility if the GOP found out?
Clinton is an average lying politician? That's better than Trump? Is Trump better than Bagdad Bob? Was he better than Stalin? Was Stalin better than Satan?
The problem with relativism is you can't know where to draw the line.
The problem with relativism is you can't know where to draw the line.
5
You sit on a throne of lies, Donald!
So the old joke is basically reality...
"How can you tell when *The Donald* is lying? His mouth is moving."
At least 60% of the time, and his mouth is open a lot...
"How can you tell when *The Donald* is lying? His mouth is moving."
At least 60% of the time, and his mouth is open a lot...
5
What little lies are there? Her whole life is a tissue of lies. Trump's inadequacies do not mean that Hillary is capable of leading this country. She has no record of legislature from her brief time in the senate which was a stepping stone to the WH. Her time as Secretary of State was disastrous and led to the disintegration of Libya and The establishment of ISIS there. It was during her period of "public service " in Washington as senator and Secretarynof state that she and Bill amassed a fortune of over 200 million dollars through their pay to play Clinton Foundation. It was as Secretary of State that Hillary refused to comply with state department regulations to protect national security secrets because she wanted to have NO GOVERNMENTAL oversight as she and Bill were eliciting millions. for oligarchs from around the third world in exchange for favors.
Trump is not the answer to Hillary. But maybe Gary Johnson is for those of us, liberal and conservative , Republican and Democrat, who have no one to vote for in November.
Trump is not the answer to Hillary. But maybe Gary Johnson is for those of us, liberal and conservative , Republican and Democrat, who have no one to vote for in November.
5
Just give DJT a Gold Medal. For Mendacity.
He likely won't understand what event he's won in. But he may just take the Medal, crow that he's won. And go home!
He likely won't understand what event he's won in. But he may just take the Medal, crow that he's won. And go home!
4
First, tying to quantify honesty is a losing game. But Clinton "fibs"? Really? I'm a Clinton supporter but I'm not willing to whitewash her history and categorize her as a fibber. Let's not be so naive or oversimplify by making apples-to-apples comparisons between these two very different candidates. We need to look beyond recent rhetoric and accept that Clinton has covered far too much political ground to come out clean. She has a killer instinct, and all the "proud grandmother" posturing in the world can't mask that. "Facts" aside, intuition seems to tell a lot of people that she's not inherently honest.
As for Trump, he is callous and insincere, and he always has been. He's a huckster; a modern-day PT Barnum. He's never purported to be trustworthy, and as such there's no great expectation that he will be. He's built an empire on artifice. He likewise has a killer instinct (in part reinforced by his "You're fired" catch phrase). But his more transparent killer instinct is clearly part of the appeal for a lot of people.
Trump is disingenuous, narcissistic, and ultimately dishonest. But Hillary is those things, too, in my opinion. That said, I find her to be a far more palatable leader. Her honesty has nothing to do with it. It's disheartening to think that's an antiquated quality to expect in our leaders, but I think it is. On both sides of the fence there were potential candidates who seemed to be much more honest than Clinton or Trump. Look where it got them.
As for Trump, he is callous and insincere, and he always has been. He's a huckster; a modern-day PT Barnum. He's never purported to be trustworthy, and as such there's no great expectation that he will be. He's built an empire on artifice. He likewise has a killer instinct (in part reinforced by his "You're fired" catch phrase). But his more transparent killer instinct is clearly part of the appeal for a lot of people.
Trump is disingenuous, narcissistic, and ultimately dishonest. But Hillary is those things, too, in my opinion. That said, I find her to be a far more palatable leader. Her honesty has nothing to do with it. It's disheartening to think that's an antiquated quality to expect in our leaders, but I think it is. On both sides of the fence there were potential candidates who seemed to be much more honest than Clinton or Trump. Look where it got them.
7
Very nicely summarized.
2
Speaking of "Huge Lies", Trump's recent claim that the Democrats are rigging the election is outrageous considering what is, in truth, actually going on. The truth is that our court system is finally undoing the rigging that the Republican Party has attempted to establish in 13 States. The Republican Party's new rules that would make voting much more difficult for Democrats in heavily Democratic districts. Blacks and other minorities would be the most adversely affected.
This just points up the need for the Democrats to win both the Presidency and the Senate in the upcoming election so that they can both nominate and appoint Supreme Court justices who will restore, and would have preserved, the Voting Rights Act.
So, no, Mr. Trump, quite the contrary. It is your Republican Party that has conspired to rig the elections in your party's favor, not the Democrats. And thank God that our courts are finally taking corrective action against these vote-stealing Republicans -- the real "cheaters".
This just points up the need for the Democrats to win both the Presidency and the Senate in the upcoming election so that they can both nominate and appoint Supreme Court justices who will restore, and would have preserved, the Voting Rights Act.
So, no, Mr. Trump, quite the contrary. It is your Republican Party that has conspired to rig the elections in your party's favor, not the Democrats. And thank God that our courts are finally taking corrective action against these vote-stealing Republicans -- the real "cheaters".
17
Hillary's DNC rigged primaries. She would rig the general if she could.
Gore ought to have challenged the Bush family theft of the 2000 election. He was wrong to just take that.
If Hillary gets caught doing it again, she ought to end in jail, not as winner.
Gore ought to have challenged the Bush family theft of the 2000 election. He was wrong to just take that.
If Hillary gets caught doing it again, she ought to end in jail, not as winner.
3
We live in an ocean of protected lies. A Trump lawsuit typically ends with a nondisclosure agreement imposed on Trump's target; Snowden has discovered how enthusiastically we protect certain very destructive lies. We all feel that any merchant is entitled to emphasize the positive. Only Hilary has to be the good girl who never goes astray. Whistle blowing by respectable Republicans is a method for appealing deniably to racial hatred - what could be worse? Civilization has evolved to protect lies because liars win.
7
"Only Hilary has to be the good girl who never goes astray."
What?! That is not even remotely the case here, and even Kristof admits that much.
What?! That is not even remotely the case here, and even Kristof admits that much.
1
When we find ourselves reading (and writing) editorials that compare the relative levels of lying by our two candidates for US President, we surely must know that something is terribly wrong. I think it is time for US citizens to engage in an act of civil disobedience, of modest resistance, and insist that these parties provide alternative candidates. Absurd claims about HIllary as an "average" liar (what??) and Trump is a "world champion" is the stuff of six-year-olds on a playground, not of citizens selecting a leader of our powerful and dangerous nation.
8
Ms Prision--You have probably never told a fib, as an adult. I'll bet. You're perfect in every way. And you probably believe that some fibs are just as important, and dangerous, as yuge, nationally and globally destructive lies. Great judgement.
4
A fib? You mean like have I ever moved my professional email onto a private server in order to keep what I am doing out of the eyes of my employer and constituents? Nope, never have done anything remotely like that. Nor have I, in my own job, made up lies to move things along ("Guns from NY come from Vermont"). No, I can safely say that I have never behaved like Hillary Clinton. I may engage in a social "fib" now and again, such as that I have a headache and therefore don't want to go out for drinks after work, but that's the extent of it.
2
To be a lie- the person must KNOW that what he says is not true.
Trump does not seem to KNOW that what he says is untrue.
Therefore he is not lying . He has a different problem - which should disturb us all.
Trump does not seem to KNOW that what he says is untrue.
Therefore he is not lying . He has a different problem - which should disturb us all.
13
Between the two, liars ,obviously any normal people would go with Hillary. Trump create lies, after lies and the media allowed him to get way with clear stupidity. I think because our government lies for so long, it became normal. One wonder why the crazy Trump is so popular for so many americans .? Lies, obviously!!When FOX News has the ability to create lies all the time, everything else are not important.
3
When will it be honestly reported that Hillary was the architect of the Syrian debacle, that has created millions of homeless refugees? Back in 2012, she bragged about giving the 'Syrian rebels', tens of millions in US aid and support. That was followed by a botched attempt to train several hundred guys to overthrow the Syrian government. Our allies, Turkey and Israel, have been buying oil from ISIS for a long time now. Whose side is she on? Is she on the side of those who oppose the jihadists or is she with them? You can't be sending help to al-Qaeda affiliates and simultaneously try to say you're fighting them. It doesn't work that way, though in Hillary-world, maybe it does.
8
Right on cue: the trolls have come out...
10
Yes. Hillary pays them. She has contracted for it.
3
To see Muslims celebrating on 9-11-2001, just look at news reports recorded on YouTube. You will find plenty. Mostly of your precious Islamic terrorist Palestinians.
They might not have been in NJ, but the videos of Muslims celebrating 9-11 have always been there. I recall watching them on 9-11-2001 myself and being sick about it.
They might not have been in NJ, but the videos of Muslims celebrating 9-11 have always been there. I recall watching them on 9-11-2001 myself and being sick about it.
2
I saw those videos as well. Many Americans did, which is why they did not get worked up about the "fact checkers" disputing his claim. He didn't fabricate. He simply got the location wrong. He's often inaccurate.
Hillary, on the other hand, is rarely inaccurate. She calculates every single word. Her every statement is designed to obscure the truth.
The attempt to paint Trump as serious a liar as Hillary is comical. Only someone desperate to make Hillary more electable would even entertain such a silly idea.
Hillary, on the other hand, is rarely inaccurate. She calculates every single word. Her every statement is designed to obscure the truth.
The attempt to paint Trump as serious a liar as Hillary is comical. Only someone desperate to make Hillary more electable would even entertain such a silly idea.
1
I watched some of the congressional hearing regarding Libya in YOUTUBE. Her answers and attitude towards questions were very bad. Regarding the E-mail involved US ambassador went to Bengazi, I believe she didn't tell the truth at all. How could a US ambassador went to a rebel held city without adequate security protections?
3
How could all their requests for assistance go unanswered? Why lie about it afterward? The Obama Administration seriously mishandled Benghazi. The problem wasn't republicans. It was their own ineptitude, which led to the deaths of those Americans.
3
Donald Trump aka John Miller aka John Barron aka The Sociopath aka The Congenital Liar
Endless, pathological lying. Donald Trump is America's Putin, but without the brains. Thank God.
Endless, pathological lying. Donald Trump is America's Putin, but without the brains. Thank God.
6
I have watched nearly all of the speeches and pronouncements from both candidates, and am floored by the level of language, the spite at the Republican convention when Guliani of NY baited the crowd into speaking and then shouting "Lock her up, lock her up."...a chant which intensified the bad feelings against Mrs Clinton and grew frighteningly worse with intensity. Justified? NO! Did the speaker not listen earlier to the FBI spokesperson explain that one reason that organization would NOT arrest Clinton was that she explained that using a private server was a mistake, and apologized. Also, the decision to indict or not to prosecute is a JUDICIAL function belonging to that 3rd branch of government and NOT to the legislative branch. In addition, the democratic function of government can't prosecute unless they think they have a sufficient case ahead to justify prosecution and win on the evidence. This was explained by the FBI spokesman who spoke indicating that while Hillary had erred, they felt they would not win a case if they prosecuted. Didn't people listen? and think? Did they ever study the US Constitution in school? or learn its principles and statements? Early in the campaign Trump vowed to bar all Muslims from entering the US, including our Muslim soldiers who were and have fought bravely in these foreign wars.
He isn't mentioning that now. But the 14th amendment to the US Constitution says that all persons BORN OR NATURALIZED in the US are CITIZENS.
He isn't mentioning that now. But the 14th amendment to the US Constitution says that all persons BORN OR NATURALIZED in the US are CITIZENS.
12
Does there exist an honest politician? I think not, as people with real integrity and grace are not electable. One who does not denigrate the opposition or promise the moon will look too weak to be respected as a true leader.
Let him/her who is without fault cast the first stone...........
Humans are weak, are we not?
Let him/her who is without fault cast the first stone...........
Humans are weak, are we not?
Great Caesar's Ghost.
Fibs.
Clinton violates the Espionage Act and calls a news conference to announce it.
3/10/15 Clinton admits at a NEWS CONFERENCE that that her attorneys viewed her e-mails:
"We went through a thorough process to identify all of my work- related emails and deliver them to the State Department.”
http://time.com/3739541/transcript-hillary-clinton-email-press-conference/
No way can Trump top that.
Why is the buffoonishly and laughably unqualified Clinton even still in the race?
Why are the laws not allowed to operate on her?
Walt
Fibs.
Clinton violates the Espionage Act and calls a news conference to announce it.
3/10/15 Clinton admits at a NEWS CONFERENCE that that her attorneys viewed her e-mails:
"We went through a thorough process to identify all of my work- related emails and deliver them to the State Department.”
http://time.com/3739541/transcript-hillary-clinton-email-press-conference/
No way can Trump top that.
Why is the buffoonishly and laughably unqualified Clinton even still in the race?
Why are the laws not allowed to operate on her?
Walt
6
The problem with this piece is simple, and kills your anti-Trump argument:
Hillary always says exactly the same canned words.
Trump actually answers questions. This gives him a much larger possibility
of saying something wrong off the cuff.
I contend that repeating Ad nauseam, as Hillary does, the exact same
"talking points" that are actual lies, is worse.
Hillary always says exactly the same canned words.
Trump actually answers questions. This gives him a much larger possibility
of saying something wrong off the cuff.
I contend that repeating Ad nauseam, as Hillary does, the exact same
"talking points" that are actual lies, is worse.
3
And I contend that insulting over half the American public, having a thin-skin, a hair-trigger temper, and a vindictive personality is worse.
Another thing.
What Trump says in one minute is forgotten in the next, and most of his answers are invariably wrong because he only listens to himself.
That's no way to run a country.
Another thing.
What Trump says in one minute is forgotten in the next, and most of his answers are invariably wrong because he only listens to himself.
That's no way to run a country.
6
Of course you would. There's no reasoning with Trump supporters. Facts are twisted into conspiracy theories. Trump is only "accidentally" lying because he is so "off the cuff". The man has no filter. That's why he's off the cuff. And when he's not spewing the first nonsense that pops into his head he's making things up out of the air.
1
I have to admit, though I think Hillary is a good woman, I don't find this story comforting, and it fits with my impression. The reason there are Berniebusters out there is because we all would like to see the lies stop. I say this as someone who voted for Bernie and changed her mind. I guess the ability to see the world as it is and work with it is more valuable than idealism, but I shed a tear for that idealism.
Also, with the climate going the way it is, compromise is no longer working. The only period in recent history I can find where people really worked with and for each other was the World Wars, and I'd hate to have us be that threatened, but we are. With a common danger, we seem to be able to work together, but first we have to recognize that danger.
Yes Trump lies without conscience, all the time, and even when it doesn't provide him any advantage, and there's no comparison. I still think Hillary is at heart an idealism and capable of great actions, but as life has battered her, she has gotten used to fitting in.
Lies in politics are a given; would it were not so.
Also, with the climate going the way it is, compromise is no longer working. The only period in recent history I can find where people really worked with and for each other was the World Wars, and I'd hate to have us be that threatened, but we are. With a common danger, we seem to be able to work together, but first we have to recognize that danger.
Yes Trump lies without conscience, all the time, and even when it doesn't provide him any advantage, and there's no comparison. I still think Hillary is at heart an idealism and capable of great actions, but as life has battered her, she has gotten used to fitting in.
Lies in politics are a given; would it were not so.
11
The vast John Birch conspiracy pressured the Clintons into defensiveness from the very beginning.
The problem with Hillary's biggest lies, about the "home brew" e-mail server, is that they leave Americans with the impression that she's paranoid and believes the rules don't apply to her. Even after Director Comey listed all the lies she told us; about whether the server was allowed, whether she sent or received confidential materials (marked or unmarked, it doesn't matter, per US government policy), not to mention that she did not turn over all her e-mails, in direct violation the State Department policy, Clinton is still lying about it today. It leaves me trying to decide whether she's delusional or incorrigible.
Giver her Nixon-level penchant for paranoid secrecy, she just doesn't have the temperament to be President. Trying to cast her as the lesser of two evils in ridiculous.
Giver her Nixon-level penchant for paranoid secrecy, she just doesn't have the temperament to be President. Trying to cast her as the lesser of two evils in ridiculous.
5
she is, without a doubt, the lesser of 2 evils. Didn't you read the article? Or just the parts about Hillary?
2
The real problem is, why people support Trump despite knowing he is a prolific liar, knowing he is a dedicated self-serving conman.
The answer seems to be, his supporters are self-serving people, angry that their interests have not been served, angry enough to demand their interests be served over the interests of the country, willing to place America at risk to get vengeance and willing to believe Trump's lies.
The answer seems to be, his supporters are self-serving people, angry that their interests have not been served, angry enough to demand their interests be served over the interests of the country, willing to place America at risk to get vengeance and willing to believe Trump's lies.
20
You just described Clinton. Six or one, half dozen of another. Except she is more dangerous since she can get more stuff through Congress.
2
What arrogance liberals have! If you disagree with them you are a racist, fascist, liar and an evil person. Get a grip and quite listening to the Democratic Party's political propaganda. All politicians spin the facts to make their self serving positions seem reasonable. The difference between Hillary and Trump is that Hillary is a polished politician and Trump is a novice. Neither are evil or racist or anything we haven't seen before in American politics. The only thing different today is the level of blind emotion that both side have.
1
Wrong. He's not a liar. Trump is inaccurate, an exaggerator and prone to hyperbolic language. His information is incomplete. He's only now starting to get security briefings.
He exaggerates like a real New Yorker, which is a terrible quality in a candidate whose every word is being parsed, particular when the opposition is a proven liar and there is a campaign to paint him as one as well.
He exaggerates like a real New Yorker, which is a terrible quality in a candidate whose every word is being parsed, particular when the opposition is a proven liar and there is a campaign to paint him as one as well.
1
People who don't lie can answer questions from the media. People who don't lie don't have to manipulate media coverage. People who do not lie don't have to explain why the FBI said they did.
3
People who don't lie don't exist. They never have.
1
Clinton is a flawed person and politician, from a flawed political party, in a flawed country with a flawed political system; she's not the best America has to offer, nor is she the worst. As American politicians go from all parties, Mrs. Clinton seems to be quite average.
Trump, on the other hand, is "Saturn Devouring His Children" (see link):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_Devouring_His_Son
Trump, on the other hand, is "Saturn Devouring His Children" (see link):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_Devouring_His_Son
2
But I think the biggest lie about Trump is his experience. He equates his years of business dealing with government experience. In fact, he has zero (0) experience in government. There is no comparison. And this is scary!
I hope that Clinton people will remind voters, over and over that the biggest lie from Donald Trump concerns his total lack of experience related to government affairs. They could make the sign of a zero (0) with fingers and thumb to remind voters:
The only thing we have to fear... is Donald (0) Trump.
------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope that Clinton people will remind voters, over and over that the biggest lie from Donald Trump concerns his total lack of experience related to government affairs. They could make the sign of a zero (0) with fingers and thumb to remind voters:
The only thing we have to fear... is Donald (0) Trump.
------------------------------------------------------------------
6
Clinton is the worst Secy of State the US has ever had. So much for her "experience." Destroyed Libya, damaged Syria, contributed to the refugee crisis.
1
Great column. Try to imagine the criticism Hillary Clinton would receive if she said or did some of the idiotic things Trump says and does every day.
14
Hillary is a professional liar.
7
Your comment is a "trumpism"; a claim unbuttressed by fact. Contrast that with the column.
1
And Trump is a professional con artist.
1
Your argument is monstrously tragic: Yes, my candidate is a liar, but your candidate is a bigger liar. I tell fibs and you tell lies. Is there a difference in character between a liar and a fibber? We are destined to have a president with whom telling the truth is a trivial and unimportant detail. Richard Nixon must be smiling.
6
Really? There are perfect people out there, who never lie at all? Not even fibs? On what planet do these people live? Almost everything in this world is a matter of degree; there are very few absolute blacks or whites.
1
Let's not relegate Nixon to the likes of Clinton and Trump. He was a flawed person, but far from the human disasters that these two candidates represent.
1
"Really? There are perfect people out there, who never lie at all?"
Obama set a pretty good standard. Neither of these candidates have a hope of doing that. It is down to, "Yours is even worse than mine."
Obama set a pretty good standard. Neither of these candidates have a hope of doing that. It is down to, "Yours is even worse than mine."
2
What a joke of a column!
If the lies were crimes, Clinton is guilty of murder and Trmp is guilty of shoplifting.
If the lies were crimes, Clinton is guilty of murder and Trmp is guilty of shoplifting.
8
If only it were as simple as you make it all out to be...But then agin, maybe you find no fault with Trump not releasing his income tax information, or exhorting a foreign (antagonistic) government to employ espionage on a U.S. presidental candidate.
If there's any joke here, it will be on the American people if Trump gets into the Oval Office...except that it won't be funny.
If there's any joke here, it will be on the American people if Trump gets into the Oval Office...except that it won't be funny.
2
Trump became the most popular of republican candidate just because of his lies. He's so sick, that is a shame even to mention his name.. Americans like lies, and half of the population lives in a bubble of lies.
3
I would be interested to know how Hillary's fibs compare to previous presidential candidates, such as Obama, McCain, Romney et al. Can that be graphed out to compare?
He is a blustery blowhard who exaggerates. She and her husband are pathological liars who will do or say anything to get and keep power.
1
The problem with Herr Dumpf being a pathological liar it that he believes the very lies that come out his mouth every few minutes.
That makes him a candidate for a closed facility not for the White House.
Now that his poll numbers are sinking like a rock, he will not push the reset button as his campaign and political supporters so eagerly wish.
Having obviously had an intervention with him by making him read - read - his short endorsement of Ryan, Ayotte and McCain from a little sheet of paper in order not to veer off, is akin to an intervention wiht an alcoholic having fallen off the waggon hundreds of times a few day before he meets his maker.
The very fact that three months before the general election he now declares that it will be rigged against him anyway, is another sign that he belongs in the loony bin for being a threat, not to himself but others.
That makes him a candidate for a closed facility not for the White House.
Now that his poll numbers are sinking like a rock, he will not push the reset button as his campaign and political supporters so eagerly wish.
Having obviously had an intervention with him by making him read - read - his short endorsement of Ryan, Ayotte and McCain from a little sheet of paper in order not to veer off, is akin to an intervention wiht an alcoholic having fallen off the waggon hundreds of times a few day before he meets his maker.
The very fact that three months before the general election he now declares that it will be rigged against him anyway, is another sign that he belongs in the loony bin for being a threat, not to himself but others.
9
From my vantage point, Mrs. Clinton is a typical office seeker liar whereas Trump doesn’t know the difference between the truth and whatever words he has to say to continually engage in self promotion and salesmanship. I think Mrs. Clinton knows better. Unfortunately, Mr. Trump does not because he doesn't even know that he is doing anything wrong. That's really scary.
Having said that, I cannot accept her version of the Bosnia sniper fire incident. And I cannot accept Mr. Kristof's retelling. You can put earrings on that pig all day long and it is still one of the tallest tales I've ever heard by a public official.
Take it from this Vietnam combat vet, you know when you've been shot at and you do not forget. Her embellishment of this event was also repeated before she was finally called on it. Shame on her. I don't care what briefing officials said prior to her plane landing, there were no shots and nobody ran with their head down.
Having said that, I cannot accept her version of the Bosnia sniper fire incident. And I cannot accept Mr. Kristof's retelling. You can put earrings on that pig all day long and it is still one of the tallest tales I've ever heard by a public official.
Take it from this Vietnam combat vet, you know when you've been shot at and you do not forget. Her embellishment of this event was also repeated before she was finally called on it. Shame on her. I don't care what briefing officials said prior to her plane landing, there were no shots and nobody ran with their head down.
1
Hello, combat vet -- please consider that if you had NEVER been shot at, but were in a much more dangerous situation that you'd ever imagined, you might have a false memory of being shot at.
In your case, because you've experienced the real thing, you can easily make the distinction between the fear of danger and actual danger. It might be different for a civilian in a flak vest getting a lesson on sniper fire during a military flight.
In your case, because you've experienced the real thing, you can easily make the distinction between the fear of danger and actual danger. It might be different for a civilian in a flak vest getting a lesson on sniper fire during a military flight.
1
So what? she is infinitely better than the pathological liar on the other side
1
In a recent doomsday article about the strong prospect of a Trump victory, Michael Moore declared "nearly 70% of all voters think she [Hillary] is untrustworthy and dishonest." Yes, they do. And yes, she is. But she holds nary a candle to the serial prevaricator DJT. Plus, she's not pathologically disordered psychologically (I can't find polite words strong enough to express the depth of Trump's mental and emotional derangement.)
Democrats are typically far too brilliant in torpedoing their own political campaigns. This year, one can only hope that Hillary's smarts will win out. And oh yes, the June and July jobs reports (well over than half a million new jobs in two months) will help Hillary, if she capitalizes on the good news. There's hope. Let's not turn out the lights yet.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
Democrats are typically far too brilliant in torpedoing their own political campaigns. This year, one can only hope that Hillary's smarts will win out. And oh yes, the June and July jobs reports (well over than half a million new jobs in two months) will help Hillary, if she capitalizes on the good news. There's hope. Let's not turn out the lights yet.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
4
Good article.
Fibs trump lies
is what voters may need to conclude.
Fibs trump lies
is what voters may need to conclude.
In a statement yesterday clarifying what she said last week in an interview with Wallace (Fox News) clarifying the statement Comey, Director of the FBI gave On 07/03/16 in regards to his previous statement in June in regards to Hillary lying to the FBI. Hillary Clinton said, "First, I want to apologize for Comey's extremely careless performance in this investigation there is no excuse. Comey said, He lied in his statement on the handling of email by me while I was Head of State. He said I didn't lie to the FBI, I was actually the most honest person he has interviewed. He also said I was not extremely careless or even slightly careless. He said my performance was superior A .
1
Have you noticed how just recently Trump has adopted a new tactic to attack Hillary? He is regurgitating the very same serious accusations and criticisms being made against him and re-directing them at Hillary? It's so nonsensical. The man has lost it and confirms, once again, he has no conscience. He truly is an "empty suit".
And, btw, his recent claim that the Democrats are rigging the election is just pure and utter nonsense. The truth is that our court system is finally undoing the rigging that the Republican Party has attempted to enforce in 13 States by instituting new rules that would make voting much more difficult for Democrats in heavily Democratic districts. So, no, Mr. Trump, quite the contrary. It is your Republican Party that has conspired to rig the elections in your party's favor, not the Democrats. And thank God that our courts are finally taking corrective action against these vote-stealing Republicans -- the real "cheaters".
And, btw, his recent claim that the Democrats are rigging the election is just pure and utter nonsense. The truth is that our court system is finally undoing the rigging that the Republican Party has attempted to enforce in 13 States by instituting new rules that would make voting much more difficult for Democrats in heavily Democratic districts. So, no, Mr. Trump, quite the contrary. It is your Republican Party that has conspired to rig the elections in your party's favor, not the Democrats. And thank God that our courts are finally taking corrective action against these vote-stealing Republicans -- the real "cheaters".
6
Admitting truth into a campaign issue means revealing that you were wrong. It takes character and strength to admit truth. Truth means you trust others to understand. Revealing truth means that you have character. You can look into the mirror as well as the eyes of all the people who you want to trust you..
Hillary does not trust anyone to understand that she believed from her government experience that private e-mails could all to easily become public and be used against her. A private server would protect her aspirations for the presidency. No one would know her secret thoughts. No one would know that she didn't trust herself to be restrained and that she didn't trust others to not publish her secrets. Hillary doesn't trust truth.
Hillary didn't lie when she told West Virginia coal miners they would lose their jobs. She hid the truth that she had no plans to help them. Hillary didn't lie about TPP. She opposes it. For now. The lie is that she will change her mind. We know that. Hillary was silent when Nafta was signed. She saw the jobs leave. But she turned away from the truth refusing to admit what we see.
Trump's lies are like those of Joseph Goebels minister of propaganda of Nazi Germany. Gobbles was "remarkably adept at expressing the (Nazi) movement's hatreds and frustrations." Instead of the 'Jewish Question' Trump offers the immigration question. Trump offers 'radical racial policies' that exclude minorities and play on the fears of white middle class.
Hillary does not trust anyone to understand that she believed from her government experience that private e-mails could all to easily become public and be used against her. A private server would protect her aspirations for the presidency. No one would know her secret thoughts. No one would know that she didn't trust herself to be restrained and that she didn't trust others to not publish her secrets. Hillary doesn't trust truth.
Hillary didn't lie when she told West Virginia coal miners they would lose their jobs. She hid the truth that she had no plans to help them. Hillary didn't lie about TPP. She opposes it. For now. The lie is that she will change her mind. We know that. Hillary was silent when Nafta was signed. She saw the jobs leave. But she turned away from the truth refusing to admit what we see.
Trump's lies are like those of Joseph Goebels minister of propaganda of Nazi Germany. Gobbles was "remarkably adept at expressing the (Nazi) movement's hatreds and frustrations." Instead of the 'Jewish Question' Trump offers the immigration question. Trump offers 'radical racial policies' that exclude minorities and play on the fears of white middle class.
1
After years of demonizing Hillary Clinton on Fox and talk radio, it’s difficult to wash all that off. When I hear it in blogs and conversations I keep asking, Give me the list. All I ever get is something in reference to being shot at at an airport and email. I point out that after years of Republican investigations; Prosecutor Ken Starr exonerated her; Congressman Tray Gowdy exonerated her; and FBI Director James Comey exonerated her and said her answers in her FBI interviews were truthful. So where is the “Crooked” part?
15
"So where is the “Crooked” part?"
As we grunts used to say: "If it was up your wazoo (not the real word) you would know where it is"
Fact is, many think that with so much negative traffic re: HRC, there must be something there. But reality: The GOP is amoral especially when it comes to any Democrat, anywhere, especially one as formidable as HRC. They are still trashing Obama daily. Why? For the GOP it is an effective way to distract attention from their inability to govern.
As we grunts used to say: "If it was up your wazoo (not the real word) you would know where it is"
Fact is, many think that with so much negative traffic re: HRC, there must be something there. But reality: The GOP is amoral especially when it comes to any Democrat, anywhere, especially one as formidable as HRC. They are still trashing Obama daily. Why? For the GOP it is an effective way to distract attention from their inability to govern.
2
Yes, vote for H-Rod because she is not as much of a liar as The Donald. What a sad rationalization.
1
Where in God's name are you living, Mr. Kristof--Hillary's delusional world?
Four dead Americans and the pathological lying that went with them and to the families are "Fibs"? She's manifestly dangerous to anyone who comes near her. Her wake is replete with bodies (to include Bernie’s and several DNC Politburo members), not just those left in the desert of Libya. Whatever is it with New York Times writers, "reporters", website censors, and editorial board? Is it so hard to accept her monstrous behavior and malfeasance and face the reality that is Hillary Clinton?
If one thing can be said about the constant barrage of pounding negative stories, e.g., this one, in the Times about Trump, it is that the Editorial Board fears Trump more than the Comey "reckless", dead-men, pathologically delusional, extortionist Hillary.
Why they prefer criminal Kim Jong-un behavior to Trump is still unanswered? Perhaps a pandering allegiance to its government uber-alles reader-base, to New York City's "fiscal progressive" Russian immigrant past, or just the need to keep things in Washington as corrupt as they've always been. Not sure.
But there is a Pravda-bias in favor of "certain" future White House misdeeds--if her past in public "self-service" is any measure of our future, assuming she's elected, of course.
November is a lifetime away and Brexit is the model of what can happen days before the vote. Perhaps the Editorial Board's real fear.
Four dead Americans and the pathological lying that went with them and to the families are "Fibs"? She's manifestly dangerous to anyone who comes near her. Her wake is replete with bodies (to include Bernie’s and several DNC Politburo members), not just those left in the desert of Libya. Whatever is it with New York Times writers, "reporters", website censors, and editorial board? Is it so hard to accept her monstrous behavior and malfeasance and face the reality that is Hillary Clinton?
If one thing can be said about the constant barrage of pounding negative stories, e.g., this one, in the Times about Trump, it is that the Editorial Board fears Trump more than the Comey "reckless", dead-men, pathologically delusional, extortionist Hillary.
Why they prefer criminal Kim Jong-un behavior to Trump is still unanswered? Perhaps a pandering allegiance to its government uber-alles reader-base, to New York City's "fiscal progressive" Russian immigrant past, or just the need to keep things in Washington as corrupt as they've always been. Not sure.
But there is a Pravda-bias in favor of "certain" future White House misdeeds--if her past in public "self-service" is any measure of our future, assuming she's elected, of course.
November is a lifetime away and Brexit is the model of what can happen days before the vote. Perhaps the Editorial Board's real fear.
7
"Where in God's name are you living, Mr. Kristof--Hillary's delusional world?"
Perhaps such articles in a paid subscription based paper says as much or more about many of the readers as they do about the writer.
I remember the story of the Emperors New Clothes where unscrupulous tailors sells the emperor a suit of the most beautiful clothes (actually nothing) that are supposedly invisible to people who are stupid or unfit for their jobs. Perhaps the emperor buying the scam clothes says as much about him, his ministers, and his subject as it does about the tailors. The tailors knew exactly what they were selling. No one points out the obvious, that there are no clothes, until he parades down the street in his "wardrobe", and a small child points out he is undressed. My point is the tailors knew the truth about what they were selling, and it was the emperor, his ministers, and subjects, (the consumers) that were shown to be gullible.
Perhaps the author is well ware of the difference between fibs and lies but many readers are willingly duped hearing what they want to believe about their champion. That their hero is not a lier, but simply tells a few innocent fibs.
According to http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fib defines fib has the simple definition that follows.
": an untrue statement about something minor or unimportant"
The loss of life is important, as is extremely careless handling of information protected for national security reasons.
John
Perhaps such articles in a paid subscription based paper says as much or more about many of the readers as they do about the writer.
I remember the story of the Emperors New Clothes where unscrupulous tailors sells the emperor a suit of the most beautiful clothes (actually nothing) that are supposedly invisible to people who are stupid or unfit for their jobs. Perhaps the emperor buying the scam clothes says as much about him, his ministers, and his subject as it does about the tailors. The tailors knew exactly what they were selling. No one points out the obvious, that there are no clothes, until he parades down the street in his "wardrobe", and a small child points out he is undressed. My point is the tailors knew the truth about what they were selling, and it was the emperor, his ministers, and subjects, (the consumers) that were shown to be gullible.
Perhaps the author is well ware of the difference between fibs and lies but many readers are willingly duped hearing what they want to believe about their champion. That their hero is not a lier, but simply tells a few innocent fibs.
According to http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fib defines fib has the simple definition that follows.
": an untrue statement about something minor or unimportant"
The loss of life is important, as is extremely careless handling of information protected for national security reasons.
John
2
Trump lies because he is so terribly insecure. Pathologically so.
He must be really small.
He must be really small.
1
Trump is a despot. There is no comparison.
1
Yeah, but Hillary ordered the execution of Vince Foster, and is now trying to cover it up.
3
Donald Trump is a major liar, an awful person and a lost cause. So, by comparison, Hillary Clinton's lies aren't so bad. Sorry, but they do show a disturbing character flaw.
Carl Bernstein on CNN several months ago did not call Hillary Clinton a liar but said that she's had a problem telling the truth since she was First Lady of Arkansas. That's not okay with me.
Carl Bernstein on CNN several months ago did not call Hillary Clinton a liar but said that she's had a problem telling the truth since she was First Lady of Arkansas. That's not okay with me.
"my lies aren't as big as his"....what a great campaign slogan and definitely the reason to vote for HRC, because that's who we need. ..someone who tells smaller lies... when is she going to prison for violating the handling of classified documents? and for anyone who hides behind the "bit they weren't classified as such" defense a) they don't have to be and b) she KNEW that as sec state she would inevitably receive secret information on her email server, how can you avoid it as sec state? so she deliberately set up an unsecure and unauthorized email server that was bound to have classified info flowing through it. that is a crime. also puts her "I did it for convenience" line out to pasture? what did she then use to send/receive classified info? prison, that's the only thing this woman is qualified for...
3
I guess the difference between a fib and a lie is that one is part of the political establishment and the other is part of the corporate establishment. A lie is a lie and it seems that the NY Times wants us to not remember that both are lying, neither is fibbing.
3
So it's just boils down to which pig has the least amount of lipstick?
Great incentive for voting.
Great incentive for voting.
2
There you go again using facts to show Donald Trump has no clothes, or at least no truthful duds. For shame, Nick! Facts don't matter when Crooked Hillary is on the loose. Only "facts" (wink, wink, nudge nudge).
1
Clinton is a lawyer, a lying lawyer. She knows exactly where the boundaries are and willfully lies to her constituency. She will say and do anything for her own political gain.
2
Eduardo:
"She will say and do anything for her own political gain."
I hear this a lot, without accompanying facts to back it up.
Why is that?
"She will say and do anything for her own political gain."
I hear this a lot, without accompanying facts to back it up.
Why is that?
2
A common trait among progressive collectivists the employment of the imperious double standard. When progressives commit an unethical or illegal act, it's always OK because their ends justify their means, their heart was in the right place, and the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Thus, their act is unquestionable except by persons who clearly are against a better world.
Clinton is a lawyer. She has spent her entire career straddling the line between illegal and legal, always having a carefully crafted series of explanations that obfuscate and evade.
Her "fibs" are by far more the most sinister, and for Kristof to pen this mealy-mouthed rationalization shows just how far the progressive mind has fallen.
Clinton is a lawyer. She has spent her entire career straddling the line between illegal and legal, always having a carefully crafted series of explanations that obfuscate and evade.
Her "fibs" are by far more the most sinister, and for Kristof to pen this mealy-mouthed rationalization shows just how far the progressive mind has fallen.
2
Objectivist,
Neither Nick nor Hill are "progressives".
You would be better served using the term neoliberal.
Neither Nick nor Hill are "progressives".
You would be better served using the term neoliberal.
1
Bernie Sanders would agree with you. But then, he claims to be a progressive but is actually a Marxist socialist, which is far further left than what we typically refer to as a progressive. Mrs. Clinton is not that far left, but I disagree - I think she has learned to disguise her true motivations, preferring to get into a position first and then unleash her ideology. And she is DEFINITELY an economic collectivist, which puts her firmly in the progressive category.
She may have run as a progressive in the primary but she is not one. If she is elected you can expect her to ditch the economic side of the progressive agenda like a hot rock. She'll still push women's and children's programs, but pollcies that seek to rein in Wall Street and corporations will die a quick death.
Trump is not unacceptable because he's dumb and he lies – he's unacceptable because he will let Mike Pence run the country into trickle-down hell and he will put Scalia clones on the supreme court and throughout the federal courts. It's not just Trumo. It's the reacionary Republican agenda that comes with him.
Trump is not unacceptable because he's dumb and he lies – he's unacceptable because he will let Mike Pence run the country into trickle-down hell and he will put Scalia clones on the supreme court and throughout the federal courts. It's not just Trumo. It's the reacionary Republican agenda that comes with him.
1
If you want to be truly honest you would acknowledge, as Paul Krugman, does that the Media has bought into and sold the idea of Clinton or the Clintons are particularly dishonest. It is the times that started the Whitewater non-scandal. It is time for the Media to recognize that they have been the happy recipient from the Arkansas Project on of an endless stream of lies.
1
Your liar is worse than my liar. We have devolved to that. And then blame the media for reporting on the lies.
It's a sad state. Throw all the liars out. Now. I will not vote for either of these creeps. And yes, I agree Clinton may be the less dangerous lying creep.
Pitiful that we could even have this conversation.
Take some of the money out of politics! Term limits and line item veto. Now!!!!!
It's a sad state. Throw all the liars out. Now. I will not vote for either of these creeps. And yes, I agree Clinton may be the less dangerous lying creep.
Pitiful that we could even have this conversation.
Take some of the money out of politics! Term limits and line item veto. Now!!!!!
1
Propaganda is getting bad
The only thing she has is to make fun of her opponent who should be a non story? Journalists should be so busy telling us all about everything she accomplished that they have no time to cover trump. What did she do as a senator? As the most famous female senator what legislation did she propose? As First Lady what did she accomplish? As Secretary of State, what did she do? How has she helped America? Why is anyone talking about trump? Why did she need to run for president and force resistance? Why will an entire generation have to live with the clintons as their rulers? Why will an entire generation have to believe that this is their only choice? Why is anyone talking about Donald trump? Doesn't make any sense unless something else is going on.
The only thing she has is to make fun of her opponent who should be a non story? Journalists should be so busy telling us all about everything she accomplished that they have no time to cover trump. What did she do as a senator? As the most famous female senator what legislation did she propose? As First Lady what did she accomplish? As Secretary of State, what did she do? How has she helped America? Why is anyone talking about trump? Why did she need to run for president and force resistance? Why will an entire generation have to live with the clintons as their rulers? Why will an entire generation have to believe that this is their only choice? Why is anyone talking about Donald trump? Doesn't make any sense unless something else is going on.
2
You now have lost all credibility. How is it possible that a journalist of "your caliber" feels the need to write a persuasive essay on Clinton ignoring any truthfulness and he ugly facts, corruption, non-integrity of that woman, when it is all out there for any of your readers to look up or inform themselves about if they so wish. We understand she is the better choice of the two main candidates, but to not address the reason why she is so rightfully disliked and mistrusted is leftism fascism that is going to one day backfire without a doubt. I thank the idiot democrats like you for the inevitable extreme right wing party that will line up and win next, the smart savvy kind that will make you dizzy with regret for such biased journaling when you could have remained objective and instilled trust in "the people" so they don't have to go extreme right to get their voices heard.
3
The genius op-ed writer needs to realize it is not the percentage of lies but about what matter one is lying about. Is the lie is just about inflated ego - "I have ten billion dollars" or is the lie about national security and life & death matters.
1
I put it to my friends this way, You are having a heart attack and a heart surgeon and a plumber are the only help you have to call on. Both have cheated on their spouses. That fact doesn't mean they are equally unfit for the job at hand. It just means the plumber is unfit for the job at hand.
5
In 94 days, Trump and his outrageous lies will be birdcage liner, and we'll have elected a slick habitual prevaricator, with a matching husband, to be president of the free world. As the kids say, awesome. Can't wait.
I once briefly met Hillary. I was not impressed.
But I'll happily vote for her because of what she's not: she's not insane. We have growing evidence Trump is a headcase out of touch with any recognizable reaiity. This 'choice' is such a no brainer.
As Bob Dylan once said "She ain't my cup of tea."
But she'll do.
But I'll happily vote for her because of what she's not: she's not insane. We have growing evidence Trump is a headcase out of touch with any recognizable reaiity. This 'choice' is such a no brainer.
As Bob Dylan once said "She ain't my cup of tea."
But she'll do.
1
No! Nicholas Kristof made that up. There is no "persistent narrative that Donald Trump is a gutsy truth-teller." The persistent narrative is that Trump speaks the mind of many people, and that is entirely a different thing.
On the other hand, by the NY Times' own telling, Hillary Clinton generates a "Blizzard of Lies". As for how important her lies are, I and my fellow citizens will be the judge of that, pace Mr. Kristof.
On the other hand, by the NY Times' own telling, Hillary Clinton generates a "Blizzard of Lies". As for how important her lies are, I and my fellow citizens will be the judge of that, pace Mr. Kristof.
1
Mr. Kristof is a heroic figure in some senses. I've always admired his work on slavery/prostitution. But, when it comes to politics, he is as partisan as the next guy. Trump is a liar. There are no two ways about it. If he's not, then he's the least informed major candidate ever to run for office. Some people, who are partisan on the right, would say, her lies are about much more important things, like national security or Benghazi. But, the truth is - who cares? If he is okay with you then it means that an ego driven, offensive and bigoted man who habitually lies or is just plain uniformed is okay with you. If you think she's okay, then a habitual liar - and lying 15-20% of the time is not minor league - who is such a panderer she will claim to carry hot sauce in her pocket book and actually changes her accent when she speaks to different crowds, is okay with you. Possibly, she is also very corrupt if even one of the links dug up about her work as SecState and donations to the foundation or speaking fees turns out to be true and vicious if what is reported about her treatment of people when first lady is true.
If you are a partisan on either side you don't care at all about your candidate's faults - even if you admit them. All you care about is that you think that they are on your side or your team's side. So, his lies strike you as important and hers don't, or the opposite.
In even a semi-rational world neither of these candidates is even borderline acceptable.
If you are a partisan on either side you don't care at all about your candidate's faults - even if you admit them. All you care about is that you think that they are on your side or your team's side. So, his lies strike you as important and hers don't, or the opposite.
In even a semi-rational world neither of these candidates is even borderline acceptable.
I'm super-pumped about voting for Clinton now that I know she lies even less than Trump.
5
What a distortion. Hillary became wealthy without ever really working. People who oppose Hillary actually wind up dead. Hillary takes pay-to-play money from folks who abuse women, hate Jews and throw gays off buildings. She's so crooked, she never even speaks to the media.
Only a Marxist could be excited to vote for Hillary.
Only a Marxist could be excited to vote for Hillary.
2
And only a fascist could be exited about voting for Trump. What will he lie about as president? Something like "I didn't order the launching of that nuke"?
Vince Foster was actually driven to suicide by you folks.
1
Weeks ago Trump stated that if he shot someone on 5th Avenue, his supporters would still back him. How can we expect that a man who brags about his ability to get away with a violent felony to care one iota about the truth?
8
Trump's whole MO is about probing the limits of human credulity.
@jk
Agree. And since Trump said that, eveyone here has been ducking on Fifth Avenue.
Agree. And since Trump said that, eveyone here has been ducking on Fifth Avenue.
1
Politiifact is hardly nonpartisan. Interesting Kristof ignores the national security implications of Clinton's "fibs."
3
Don't you know that disseminating disinformation is a major national security activity?
Exaggeration and outright lies are two different things. Clinton wins hands down on big lies and the public know it. Trump exaggerates to make a point. The bible calls what Trump does hyperbole. Get with it. Read the bible once in a while and I'll bet your dirty biased little mind will say it is full of lies.
3
The Bible is a vast compilation of tragedies fueled by narcissistic delusions that humanity was created to entertain an imaginary entity called "God" who would otherwise be bored to death for eternity.
1
The biggest difference is that Trump successfully lies to himself. His own self deception is what makes him unfit to rule.
7
It will be interesting to see the presidential debates. Unless he finds some excuse not to participate, there seems no question that Hillary Clinton will wipe the floor with Donald Trump, lies or no lies. But will that matter to the inveterate Trump supporters? And how many of them are there among US voters in the presidential election?
Lies are one thing but If you recall in January 2016 Mr. Trump said, "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
That may have been true in the Republican primaries. The question is will it be true in November?
Lies are one thing but If you recall in January 2016 Mr. Trump said, "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
That may have been true in the Republican primaries. The question is will it be true in November?
8
We wonder if his heel spurs will keep him from the debates. Oh, the suffering.
3
Hillary is well within the bell curve when it comes to politicians of both parties stretching the truth, cherry picking facts or putting a good spin on things. Her cautious or somewhat paranoid mind set is based in reality. The Republicans have actually been out to get her for the last 25 years. By way of comparison, in 1983 241 servicemen were killed in Beirut by a truck bomb explosion. There was exactly ONE investigation of President Reagan by the Democratic led House. To date Benghazi it is one of the longest Congressional investigations in history http://benghazicommittee.com/benghazi-by-the-numbers/ - more than 9/11, more than the JFK assassination. Why so many? Kevin McCarthy actually blurted it out when he bragged that the Republican led Congressional investigations had actually achieved something by causing her poll numbers to drop. Millions of dollars wasted in yet another attempt to demonize her.
It's true she's not "warm and fuzzy" and maybe she's not even likable but I'm not voting for student body president. She's tough as nails and yes she's AMBITIOUS. That seems to be a dirty word for a woman - but great for a man. Without ambition no one would ever be President or, for that matter, accomplish very much in life. It's no accident she's the first woman nominated by a major party.
It's true she's not "warm and fuzzy" and maybe she's not even likable but I'm not voting for student body president. She's tough as nails and yes she's AMBITIOUS. That seems to be a dirty word for a woman - but great for a man. Without ambition no one would ever be President or, for that matter, accomplish very much in life. It's no accident she's the first woman nominated by a major party.
12
The people can never prove clintons lies. They have no recourse. We can prove trumps lies when he is president. What can we do when Clinton is president and she lies???? She and her husband have set the precedent that their lies don't matter.
3
Narrative? Hillary has a 40 plus year track record of deceit and corruption. In addition, she is a very unpleasant individual to boot.
Ever heard of Rose Law Firm?
Ever heard of Rose Law Firm?
3
Yes maybe both has things we can't get over, but I will take Clinton over Trump any day. He is scary not truthful. let's hope he will not win and dream for the White House for rest of his life.
3
Not exactly a ringing endorsement. He is a bigger liar than she is. The time has come to vote for a third party.
4
Out of all that were running, she's been the most honest per Politifact. 3rd party helps Trump, which helps WW3.
2
If you expect perfect honesty from a politician who must persuade, cajole, compromise, and vacillate in order to get anything worthwhile done when in office, you are living in lala land. Even our greatest, Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt, played games with the whole truth (mostly in matters of timing) in order to steer the ship of state through badly troubled waters.
3
It should be clear by now that Trump abhors 'moderation in all things' -- or what Trump would dismiss as mediocrity. The reason for this is that Trump, the great showman and exhibitionist, knows that the crowds are bored by normal behaviour. The Roman mob flocked to the Coliseum to see a spectacle of bloodletting. The American mob wants similar entertainment.
Likewise, normally the US media is not going to trumpet the fact that a politician is telling the truth, although they might now in Trump's case given what an unusual occurrence that is.
Hence, Trump lies in no small part because he knows it will keep the spotlight on him. Every lie on national television is another few moments of earnest coverage by the NYT, WaPo, etc, all focused on the Chief Braggart strutting his stuff.
Moreover, even if he doesn't win, Trump simply adores basking in the spotlight -- so what the heck? He gets a great kick out of it. It's good for his tawdry brand placement. So why not annoy and irritate the great and the good, and have fun while you do it?
Trump and his hell-raisers don't really think Trump is gonna win. They're merely enjoying their malarkey moment in their sun.
Likewise, normally the US media is not going to trumpet the fact that a politician is telling the truth, although they might now in Trump's case given what an unusual occurrence that is.
Hence, Trump lies in no small part because he knows it will keep the spotlight on him. Every lie on national television is another few moments of earnest coverage by the NYT, WaPo, etc, all focused on the Chief Braggart strutting his stuff.
Moreover, even if he doesn't win, Trump simply adores basking in the spotlight -- so what the heck? He gets a great kick out of it. It's good for his tawdry brand placement. So why not annoy and irritate the great and the good, and have fun while you do it?
Trump and his hell-raisers don't really think Trump is gonna win. They're merely enjoying their malarkey moment in their sun.
2
I leave Mr. Trump aside as he does not seem to be capable of separating fact and fiction.
As for Mrs. Clinton, it is not just a matter of quantity but also of quality. A lot or few little lies is not the same as a even a few zingers.The few cited here qualify as zingers, as well as the Benghazi example which Mr. Kristof is too quick to put aside as "unclear".
As for Mrs. Clinton, it is not just a matter of quantity but also of quality. A lot or few little lies is not the same as a even a few zingers.The few cited here qualify as zingers, as well as the Benghazi example which Mr. Kristof is too quick to put aside as "unclear".
3
Thank you Mr. Kristof for shining some light on the anti-Hillary campaign and the whoppers put forward by Mr. Trump. It's about time the news media put some objectivity into comparing the two candidates.
By the way, when Hillary was running against Rudi Giuliani for the U.S. Senate, both had negatives in the 50's. Rudi left the race and Rick Lazio entered the race with much lower negatives and we all know who won that race.
Whatever the negatives, Hillary out works her opponents which is what she is doing now. Despite her negatives prior to being elected to the Senate, she worked hard for the up-state counties that were historically Republican. In her reelection, she won handily because she had delivered for the people of New York State.
By the way, when Hillary was running against Rudi Giuliani for the U.S. Senate, both had negatives in the 50's. Rudi left the race and Rick Lazio entered the race with much lower negatives and we all know who won that race.
Whatever the negatives, Hillary out works her opponents which is what she is doing now. Despite her negatives prior to being elected to the Senate, she worked hard for the up-state counties that were historically Republican. In her reelection, she won handily because she had delivered for the people of New York State.
6
Talk about damning with faint praise, beginning with the headline. But maybe you're trying to explain the concept of nuance. Good luck with that. The Trump supporters who forgive the whoppers while focusing on the small number of exaggerations of a career politician don't see the world in shades of gray. An ambitious woman who misremembers or prevaricates on a handful of occasions will always be far worse to them than a out and out no-nothing fraud.
4
What occurred during the attack on Benghazi is not a "small exaggeration".
The most crucial aspect of Benghazi is what happened before and during the the attack ' and not really about the over up using a "video" as an excuse...
That region was becoming unstable from security standpoint after several incidents prior to the 9/11/2011 attack, which the British closed the embassy. Granted Ambassador Stevens decided to stay, however after the initial attack on US compound in Benghazi where Stevens was staying, someone made the decision of changing the decision to send assistance during the 13 hours that followed...., which is a long time and to indicate a jet from Italy could not fly across the Mediterranean Sea is unrealistic...
Was Hillary giving input on this decision and if so what was it?
Some of the "spin" going around not to send assistance, was if assistance was sent in, it could be taken as invading as sovereign nation, however, Libya was already in chaos and the US has performed such mission in the past in other nations...
The most crucial aspect of Benghazi is what happened before and during the the attack ' and not really about the over up using a "video" as an excuse...
That region was becoming unstable from security standpoint after several incidents prior to the 9/11/2011 attack, which the British closed the embassy. Granted Ambassador Stevens decided to stay, however after the initial attack on US compound in Benghazi where Stevens was staying, someone made the decision of changing the decision to send assistance during the 13 hours that followed...., which is a long time and to indicate a jet from Italy could not fly across the Mediterranean Sea is unrealistic...
Was Hillary giving input on this decision and if so what was it?
Some of the "spin" going around not to send assistance, was if assistance was sent in, it could be taken as invading as sovereign nation, however, Libya was already in chaos and the US has performed such mission in the past in other nations...
1
I think Trump got into the habit of lying very early when no one thought to video tape his lies and now he can't stop even though he is so often caught in the act.
2
The trouble here is that Clinton's actual lies don't trouble the national media and don't much get attention, for the simple reason they support establishment positions shared by most op-ed writers (who wouldn't be gainfully employed otherwise) and well-paid media celebrities and reporters who share the class interests of the permanent political establishment.
From her absurd oft-repeated claim that "we", unlike the rest of the world, are virtuous actors in international affairs to her insistence that she didn't really vote for the invasion of Iraq, it was just an exploratory thing, or that she didn't support the latest Latin American coup, the march of untruth never stops. And of course there's a level of self-glorifying blather nearly as disturbing as Trump's: remember "We came, We saw, He died"?
But since all this falls well within the shameful norms American political discourse, it doesn't seem to bother Nick Kristof...
From her absurd oft-repeated claim that "we", unlike the rest of the world, are virtuous actors in international affairs to her insistence that she didn't really vote for the invasion of Iraq, it was just an exploratory thing, or that she didn't support the latest Latin American coup, the march of untruth never stops. And of course there's a level of self-glorifying blather nearly as disturbing as Trump's: remember "We came, We saw, He died"?
But since all this falls well within the shameful norms American political discourse, it doesn't seem to bother Nick Kristof...
5
The willingness of Americans to believe propaganda and lies is astonishing. Many believe any whisper or shout about Clinton, but it never occurs to them to suspect the scandal-monger. Why not? What makes Limbaugh, Hannity, O’Reilly, Kelly, and all the sad, ragged gang of blustering character assassins so credible? It worked against Obama—well, he’s black. Is HRC’s gender a factor? Undoubtedly. But that still does not explain why so many are so gullible.
Another factor is the naivety of many Americans. Some follow every wardrobe malfunction of the stars and their every sex scandal. Many experience paroxysms of grief when someone they never knew except as a media object dies—Princess Di, for example. They make excuses for their Church and its pedophile priests and the bishops who protected them. They agree with torture and with the long nightmare of bloodletting by gun if a Republican says it's OK. Yet they seem to take personal offense if they discover that a Democratic politician isn’t perfect—or is not “inspiring.”
Another factor is the naivety of many Americans. Some follow every wardrobe malfunction of the stars and their every sex scandal. Many experience paroxysms of grief when someone they never knew except as a media object dies—Princess Di, for example. They make excuses for their Church and its pedophile priests and the bishops who protected them. They agree with torture and with the long nightmare of bloodletting by gun if a Republican says it's OK. Yet they seem to take personal offense if they discover that a Democratic politician isn’t perfect—or is not “inspiring.”
10
I think they believe it about both Clinton's because the right has been smearing them for decades. Facts never mattered. They knew there was nothing behind the Whitewater investigation, yet spent something like $10 million taxpayer dollars. Same with Benghazi.
4
Back in February, the New York Times in an Editorial asked: "Mrs. Clinton, Show Voters Those Transcripts". Here in the dog days of August, she still hasn't shown us those transcripts. As the Times noted, it brings up the idea that she may have something to hide. The Fourth Estate needs to continue to put her feet to the fire and get her to come clean. However, it seems that the Times columnists continue to bash Trump over every little thing coming out of his foul mouth, but seem to have refused to do their job in finding the transcripts. I mean if you reporters can find obscure nefarious plots throughout the world. why isn't a team assigned to find someone who recorded those speeches? Anything less than that seems like an attempt to inject partisan instead of objective reporting on the candidates for the highest office in the land.
2
Clinton is a Liar. And she posed a security risk to the United States with her private email server. The Director of the FBI said she was "extremely careless."
A member of the government.
Hillary Clinton is not qualified to to be the President. She is only out for herself.
Look at her slogan; "I'm with Her." Not, "I'm with You."
Clinon is pathetic. Trump is going to win.
Because people are sick of this malaise of the past 7.5 years.
A member of the government.
Hillary Clinton is not qualified to to be the President. She is only out for herself.
Look at her slogan; "I'm with Her." Not, "I'm with You."
Clinon is pathetic. Trump is going to win.
Because people are sick of this malaise of the past 7.5 years.
3
What malaise? The economy just added 225k jobs this past month.
2
Kristof and many of the folks here are missing the point. In short, a lie is a lie. I think many people in this country, myself included, would prefer a president that didn't lie.
To quote Epictetus:
Why, then, are we still indolent, and slothful, and sluggish, seeking pretences of avoiding labor? Shall we not be watchful to render reason itself accurate? "But suppose, after all, I should make a mistake in these points, - it is not as if I had killed my father." O slavish man, in this case you had no father to kill. but the only fault that you could commit in this instance, you have committed. This very thing I myself said to Rufus when he reproved me for not finding the weak point in some syllogism. "Why," said I, "have I burnt the capitol then?" "Slave !" answered he, "was the thing here involved the capitol? Or are there no other faults but burning the capitol, or [p. 1031] killing a father?" And is it no fault to treat rashly, and vainly, and heedlessly, the things which pass before our eyes, - not to comprehend a reason, nor a demonstration, nor a sophism; nor, in short, to see what is strong in reasoning and what is weak? Is there nothing wrong in this?
To quote Epictetus:
Why, then, are we still indolent, and slothful, and sluggish, seeking pretences of avoiding labor? Shall we not be watchful to render reason itself accurate? "But suppose, after all, I should make a mistake in these points, - it is not as if I had killed my father." O slavish man, in this case you had no father to kill. but the only fault that you could commit in this instance, you have committed. This very thing I myself said to Rufus when he reproved me for not finding the weak point in some syllogism. "Why," said I, "have I burnt the capitol then?" "Slave !" answered he, "was the thing here involved the capitol? Or are there no other faults but burning the capitol, or [p. 1031] killing a father?" And is it no fault to treat rashly, and vainly, and heedlessly, the things which pass before our eyes, - not to comprehend a reason, nor a demonstration, nor a sophism; nor, in short, to see what is strong in reasoning and what is weak? Is there nothing wrong in this?
1
Mr Kristoff is pointing out the obvious to most of us. Trump is a sick man. Hillary is careless about some things she says. Still, how can we as adults even consider Trump for any public office. He is a walking wreck. Clinton is committed to all of us as our leader. No comparison. Inclusion vs Racism.
8
It would be wonderful if the 9th Commandment could be used to judge the worthiness of a politician's character. Kristof is suggesting that when it comes to "baring false witness" we should think in terms of degrees. He is suggesting that since Clinton lies less, (27% of the time, and less effectively), we should be less wary of her character.
Unfortunately, many in the American electorate have accepted the maxim that "all politicians lie." This seems to be particularly true among some of my fervent Christian friends. So, I am determined to move the sacred bar for the criteria of character from the 9th Commandment to Proverbs 6: 16-19:
There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
The test of character derived from this passage from Proverbs should leave less doubt in the mind's of those who purport to still care about character when it comes time to cast a vote for the Presidency. So, as Ted says, "Vote your conscience."
Unfortunately, many in the American electorate have accepted the maxim that "all politicians lie." This seems to be particularly true among some of my fervent Christian friends. So, I am determined to move the sacred bar for the criteria of character from the 9th Commandment to Proverbs 6: 16-19:
There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
The test of character derived from this passage from Proverbs should leave less doubt in the mind's of those who purport to still care about character when it comes time to cast a vote for the Presidency. So, as Ted says, "Vote your conscience."
You seem to forget that the Old Testament set forth rules to be followed by God's "chosen people" and exhibited toward others in that group. Those same rules often did not apply to individuals or groups that did not belong. Most any quotation can be made to look sweet when taken out of context. Read further in the OT, both forward and backward; you'll notice that when the chosen interacted with those outside of the group, it was a completely different ball game.
1
I believe that the GOP has had eight (or more) years to push the narrative of how bad Clinton is, because everyone knew that she would most likely be the nominee in 2016. She has made a few blunders, but good God, when you consider the current alternative it is an absolute no-brianer. I want a person in the White House who knows how to handle herself (or himself) in a crisis. Someone who can communicate with foreign leaders. Someone with experience of the day-to-day workings of government.
If you listen to any of Mr. Trump's speeches, the exaggerations, half-truths, and flat out lies come flowing out of his mouth with almost every breath. When you add to that the personal insults, racism, and sexism that he exudes on a daily basis, it is beyond comprehension that a nation as great as ours could possibly select him as its leader.
If you listen to any of Mr. Trump's speeches, the exaggerations, half-truths, and flat out lies come flowing out of his mouth with almost every breath. When you add to that the personal insults, racism, and sexism that he exudes on a daily basis, it is beyond comprehension that a nation as great as ours could possibly select him as its leader.
13
This is a valuable column that needed to be written. It's too infrequently noted that Sec. Clinton is an attorney, and that her misstatements are lawyerly. A perfect example is her transforming Mr. Comey's "We have no basis to conclude that she lied to the FBI" (lawyerly itself) into a wholesale proclamation of her truthfulness. Her reasoning condenses as: Mr. Comey said I was truthful to the FBI, my public statements are consistent with what I said to the Bureau, therefore I have not lied. A very lawyerly argument. (This is not to approve of lawyerly slipperiness and truth-shading.)
An open paragraph to Sec. Clinton: You (and the U.S., and the entire world) will be well served if you can transcend your stubbornness and euthanize the e-mail matter. You will not be able to explain it away, and each time you fail to do so nourishes your number-one liability. I advise you to make one final, definitive statement in a series of syntactically and semantically plain bullet points. Every jot and tittle should be verifiable with Euclidean certainty and not contradict extant claims on the public record. (In particular, you should simply quote Mr. Comey's "We have no basis ..." instead of spinning it.) Then, whenever the matter arises, refer people to your statement and say nothing further.
More gratis counsel for Sec. Clinton: Promise to tell the whole truth and nothing but, starting now. Challenge Mr. Trump to do the same. Then make 100% certain to hold yourself to your promise.
An open paragraph to Sec. Clinton: You (and the U.S., and the entire world) will be well served if you can transcend your stubbornness and euthanize the e-mail matter. You will not be able to explain it away, and each time you fail to do so nourishes your number-one liability. I advise you to make one final, definitive statement in a series of syntactically and semantically plain bullet points. Every jot and tittle should be verifiable with Euclidean certainty and not contradict extant claims on the public record. (In particular, you should simply quote Mr. Comey's "We have no basis ..." instead of spinning it.) Then, whenever the matter arises, refer people to your statement and say nothing further.
More gratis counsel for Sec. Clinton: Promise to tell the whole truth and nothing but, starting now. Challenge Mr. Trump to do the same. Then make 100% certain to hold yourself to your promise.
10
Excellent advice. Mrs. Clinton, you have my vote anyway because of Trump. You have my vote anyway because your heart is in the right place. You have my vote anyway because I think that it is past time that we have a female president. However, you still need to earn my respect.
A political science professor from my college days said it's pretty easy to influence American voters. You can make most of them line up like dairy cows behind the leader and they'll follow that lead cow back to the barn to get milked every day!
No intelligent adult in the US should be surprised that politicians lie! To expect otherwise proves you don't really pay attention to politics! HRC has lied over the past quarter century. Trump's been lying all along as well during those 25 years. Just ask some of the people he's stiffed!
Trump takes it to a level never before seen by a major party nominee. I did a check of Politifact myself the other day. I combined the Pants on Fire with False & then True by itself. This is what I found (true statement percentages are in parentheses)
Clinton 13% (22%) Trump 54% (4%)
Kaine 6% (16%) Pence 30% (15%)
Sanders 11 % (13%)
Obama 14% (21%) Romney 25% (15%)
McCain 25% (20%) GW Bush 25% (25%)
Bill Clinton 13% (23%)
Paul Ryan 13% (15%) Nancy Pelosi 34% (10%)
Harry Reid 44% (8%) Mitch McConnell 21% (11%)
The other categories (Mostly True, Half True, Mostly False) I consider to be more manipulations than lies. I actually watch a great deal of political news on multiple networks. In fact when Trump said he didn't know Putin, I remembered immediately that he said he got to know him well. Carli Fiorina called him out on it! HRC's lies are in the average realm. Trump's lies are a symptom of mental illness.
No intelligent adult in the US should be surprised that politicians lie! To expect otherwise proves you don't really pay attention to politics! HRC has lied over the past quarter century. Trump's been lying all along as well during those 25 years. Just ask some of the people he's stiffed!
Trump takes it to a level never before seen by a major party nominee. I did a check of Politifact myself the other day. I combined the Pants on Fire with False & then True by itself. This is what I found (true statement percentages are in parentheses)
Clinton 13% (22%) Trump 54% (4%)
Kaine 6% (16%) Pence 30% (15%)
Sanders 11 % (13%)
Obama 14% (21%) Romney 25% (15%)
McCain 25% (20%) GW Bush 25% (25%)
Bill Clinton 13% (23%)
Paul Ryan 13% (15%) Nancy Pelosi 34% (10%)
Harry Reid 44% (8%) Mitch McConnell 21% (11%)
The other categories (Mostly True, Half True, Mostly False) I consider to be more manipulations than lies. I actually watch a great deal of political news on multiple networks. In fact when Trump said he didn't know Putin, I remembered immediately that he said he got to know him well. Carli Fiorina called him out on it! HRC's lies are in the average realm. Trump's lies are a symptom of mental illness.
15
It is just so sad that the race for the American Presidency has come down to this. On one side you have Trump, nothing more than a carnival barker, trying to get your attention, that you might consider plunking down your vote just to see what's in the tent. Nobody thinks that anything he says is true, not the point. They aren't voting for him because he is a truth-teller but because might accidentally do something that will benefit them, rather than continue on in the death spiral of the middle class.
Clinton is the con (neocon) woman. Running a version with Trump of the "False Good Samaritan con," she pretends to "save" us from the bad guy. She couches her words in such a way that they can mean what they say and the opposite of what they say at the same time. Mr. Kristof himself is useful in that he uses the "appeal to authority," using "Politifact" and "Fact-checker" to say that Trump is a bigger liar than Clinton. Those "checkers" results depend entirely what they pick to check. What about, when asked why, if she was running for Prez, she took the Wall Street money and she said she hadn't decided to run then. Really?
I am so tired of reading pieces like this that say, "Well, she may be a turd, but he is a stinkier turd" or "she's not bad, the Republicans just draw her that way." Both are rotten.
Clinton is the con (neocon) woman. Running a version with Trump of the "False Good Samaritan con," she pretends to "save" us from the bad guy. She couches her words in such a way that they can mean what they say and the opposite of what they say at the same time. Mr. Kristof himself is useful in that he uses the "appeal to authority," using "Politifact" and "Fact-checker" to say that Trump is a bigger liar than Clinton. Those "checkers" results depend entirely what they pick to check. What about, when asked why, if she was running for Prez, she took the Wall Street money and she said she hadn't decided to run then. Really?
I am so tired of reading pieces like this that say, "Well, she may be a turd, but he is a stinkier turd" or "she's not bad, the Republicans just draw her that way." Both are rotten.
2
If we consider Clinton's "fibs" to be simply a normal part of the political process, I think we are in deep trouble. You may expect to be lied to, Mr. Kristof; I don't.
3
Fred: You don't? How old are you? Two?
2
Hillary Clinton has said nothing to hurt our nation - to the contrary, she has spent her life dedicated to public service. None of her tall tales (bullets whistling over our heads) were harmful to Americans. As Kristof points out she was made to wear a Kevlar vest before leaving the plane in Bosnia.
Meanwhile, the GOP has attacked her incessantly for Benghazi where she was powerless to help her friend - as 8 investigations have proven. But much of the insane rage over the Benghazi tragedy stems from whether Hilary told the Mothers of the CIA personnel killed with Ambassador Stevens in Benghazi that the attack was based upon a vile U Tube movie demeaning Islam (definitively the cause of riots in Egypt the day before) ... when in reality the attack in Benghazi was triggered by local terrorists and not the movie.
Hillary's "lie" about Benghazi was told to grieving mothers to try to provide some immediate explanation for their sons' deaths.
These are not the "lies" that change the world - and if understood, may not even be the "lies" that change some votes.
Meanwhile, the GOP has attacked her incessantly for Benghazi where she was powerless to help her friend - as 8 investigations have proven. But much of the insane rage over the Benghazi tragedy stems from whether Hilary told the Mothers of the CIA personnel killed with Ambassador Stevens in Benghazi that the attack was based upon a vile U Tube movie demeaning Islam (definitively the cause of riots in Egypt the day before) ... when in reality the attack in Benghazi was triggered by local terrorists and not the movie.
Hillary's "lie" about Benghazi was told to grieving mothers to try to provide some immediate explanation for their sons' deaths.
These are not the "lies" that change the world - and if understood, may not even be the "lies" that change some votes.
10
I am offended by the headline. Has any journalist ever considered that Mrs. Clinton may have had benign reasons for using the home-based server--such as 15+ years of nitpicking scrutiny? I seriously doubt Mrs. Clinton was so tech-savvy that she had nefarious intentions. The same goes with the exchange of classified material--would it be preferable for her to fret about the material or do her job as secretary of state? For the Times to conflate this administrative misfeasance with Trump's know nothing demagoguery is journalistic malpractice.
7
Thank your for this revealing assessment of the gravity of the embellishments we hear during political campaigns.
I will never understand why those who fawn over the great Trumpet cannot see him for what he is--a pathological liar. There is no kind word to describe his rabid utterances. Are the so-called "uneducated" of this country really missing Trumpet's audacious prevarications? Is it that they believe raving and ranting is indicative of leadership ability? That they are accustomed to rage and put-downs, and it's considered strong and manly?
What is really wrong with this country?
I will never understand why those who fawn over the great Trumpet cannot see him for what he is--a pathological liar. There is no kind word to describe his rabid utterances. Are the so-called "uneducated" of this country really missing Trumpet's audacious prevarications? Is it that they believe raving and ranting is indicative of leadership ability? That they are accustomed to rage and put-downs, and it's considered strong and manly?
What is really wrong with this country?
5
The real issue is that Trump supporters, like Trump, do not care that he lies constantly. They believe that his success in business is all that counts.
We need more billionaires like Warren Buffet to get out there and debunk Trump's business acumen. Trump and his supporters also seem to believe that there is nothing more "honest" and "tough" than calling people names, insulting them, refusing to apologize or back down when wrong, refusing to take the advice of others, etc. Look around. There is quite a bit of this "in your face stuff" in our culture. Trump has just taken that "nobody can tell me what to do" ball and run with it. I wonder if any members of Congress recognize their own behavior in Trump: shutting down the government, filibustering while reading Dr. Seuss aloud, calling the president a liar during the State of the Union address and then making money off of it? You paved the way.
We need more billionaires like Warren Buffet to get out there and debunk Trump's business acumen. Trump and his supporters also seem to believe that there is nothing more "honest" and "tough" than calling people names, insulting them, refusing to apologize or back down when wrong, refusing to take the advice of others, etc. Look around. There is quite a bit of this "in your face stuff" in our culture. Trump has just taken that "nobody can tell me what to do" ball and run with it. I wonder if any members of Congress recognize their own behavior in Trump: shutting down the government, filibustering while reading Dr. Seuss aloud, calling the president a liar during the State of the Union address and then making money off of it? You paved the way.
7
Check the liberal posts, plenty of name calling there.
1
I don't always agree with Hillary, but my focus is on policies and positions. Media obsession with the emails and its willingness to try to make this look like a horserace by putting a very heavy thumb on the scale when reporting that incident and other actually trivial or easily distorted events ill serves the public.
Trump's MO is name-calling, and we all know that Hillary has been subjected to a vicious, highly coordinated misinformation campaign by the right for decades. We don't need more reporters showering Hillary with redundant questions about matters that she's responded to a thousand times, sometimes in "hearings" that amount to monkey trials, or poring though the ashes of sufficiently resolved " scandals" for some inflammatory tidbit. They sound like inquisitors desperate to catch her in some misstep.
When they endlessly replay stories that have long been determined to be largely composed of Republican agitprop, they insult not just her, but weary citizens who would like to read real content about her proposals. They also feed the worst among us, who vote from histrionic emotion, mostly manufactured fears and whipped up hatred. They're just participating in the sort of low bar politics that the right, and now Trump, have made almost normative. We're tired of it.
And some questions require a nuanced answer; politicians know that those are easily made to look like lies and evasions. Shame on the press for falling for that one.
Trump's MO is name-calling, and we all know that Hillary has been subjected to a vicious, highly coordinated misinformation campaign by the right for decades. We don't need more reporters showering Hillary with redundant questions about matters that she's responded to a thousand times, sometimes in "hearings" that amount to monkey trials, or poring though the ashes of sufficiently resolved " scandals" for some inflammatory tidbit. They sound like inquisitors desperate to catch her in some misstep.
When they endlessly replay stories that have long been determined to be largely composed of Republican agitprop, they insult not just her, but weary citizens who would like to read real content about her proposals. They also feed the worst among us, who vote from histrionic emotion, mostly manufactured fears and whipped up hatred. They're just participating in the sort of low bar politics that the right, and now Trump, have made almost normative. We're tired of it.
And some questions require a nuanced answer; politicians know that those are easily made to look like lies and evasions. Shame on the press for falling for that one.
10
"Yes, I fibbed, I did cut down the cherry tree - but it's nothing compared to Trump's lies". Children everywhere should be grateful to Mr. Kristof for their new 'get of jail free' card; I was definitely born too soon.
Amazing the contortions the Time's columnists put themselves through to salvage their golden girl, sacrificing all integrity in the process.
Amazing the contortions the Time's columnists put themselves through to salvage their golden girl, sacrificing all integrity in the process.
5
Yes only those with integrity support Trump. The rest of us are craven.
No contortions needed when comparing Clinton to Trump.
No contortions needed when comparing Clinton to Trump.
3
My first thought when I read this, this morning, was Et tu, Nicholas.
I suppose one has to have unimpeachable character to ignore the misguided mandates of ones employer, so who am I to judge ?
If I was working for the NY Times, I would hesitate to follow their lead, especially since they now appear to have no integrity left, none at all.
I suppose one has to have unimpeachable character to ignore the misguided mandates of ones employer, so who am I to judge ?
If I was working for the NY Times, I would hesitate to follow their lead, especially since they now appear to have no integrity left, none at all.
1
We'll be choosing either the better or the less wose of the two candidates. Either way, Hillary Clinton wins. So vote for Hillary Clinton.
4
Trump tends to exaggerate.
Ok, not thousands of Muslims celebrating, only dozens.
How many rooms in his apartment? Who cares.
Trump is lying about whether or not a wall will be built? A possible future lie compared to Hillary's actual lies is not a valid comparison.
Clinton lies through her teeth over matters of national security.
Clinton is shameless. Trump is a braggart.
Clinton's lies are much more dangerous.
Ok, not thousands of Muslims celebrating, only dozens.
How many rooms in his apartment? Who cares.
Trump is lying about whether or not a wall will be built? A possible future lie compared to Hillary's actual lies is not a valid comparison.
Clinton lies through her teeth over matters of national security.
Clinton is shameless. Trump is a braggart.
Clinton's lies are much more dangerous.
5
And the point of this article is ??
It is simply observation, with no point, no agenda, or is it a kind of last gasp effort on the part of the NY Times, to present Hillary as being the less egregious liar, vying to be President of the United States, so Mr. and Ms. America, feel good about electing a devious charlatan to be our President, given the alternative.
The entire charade this election year, epitomizes a nation that went off the rails, and now lies wounded, perhaps fatally, in a deep dark place, trapped, unable to see any light, and any way out.
We got here because we became apathetic as we discovered that our corporate owned government, our masters had won, by holding fast to a course set some 40 years ago, a course designed to empoverish the masses, and accrue unimaginable wealth for the masters.
Welcome home, all you poor, all you middle-class, home to the New World Order, aka reconstituted Feudalism, and don't worry, be happy, at least serfdom is better than wretched penury, isn't it.
I see our future leaders, Hillary or Trump, deliriously salivating, and astonished at the ease with which they did it.
It is simply observation, with no point, no agenda, or is it a kind of last gasp effort on the part of the NY Times, to present Hillary as being the less egregious liar, vying to be President of the United States, so Mr. and Ms. America, feel good about electing a devious charlatan to be our President, given the alternative.
The entire charade this election year, epitomizes a nation that went off the rails, and now lies wounded, perhaps fatally, in a deep dark place, trapped, unable to see any light, and any way out.
We got here because we became apathetic as we discovered that our corporate owned government, our masters had won, by holding fast to a course set some 40 years ago, a course designed to empoverish the masses, and accrue unimaginable wealth for the masters.
Welcome home, all you poor, all you middle-class, home to the New World Order, aka reconstituted Feudalism, and don't worry, be happy, at least serfdom is better than wretched penury, isn't it.
I see our future leaders, Hillary or Trump, deliriously salivating, and astonished at the ease with which they did it.
4
I appreciate the intent of this article, however, as a serious moderate who is still teetering on the fence, here's what i wish i knew, or at least have a pretty solid feeling of likelihood:
Which one is most likely going to make the best decisions for our country (and the world) in the important stuff like life and death (aka "national security")?
That best decision may include lying, hiding facts, triage, some dying deliberately or by friendly fire, etc. If there are sides - and in our world there are - it's all a giant poker game, with life-threatening stakes. I DONT CARE ABOUT THE EMAILS. I care about voting for the candidate who is most likely to make the best decision under the worst pressure (e.g., our citizens' lives, or more likely, our citizens' lives at the expense of some of our armed services citizens.)
Sure, Mr. Trump has played with high money stakes and is probably pretty darned good at it. And with the benefit of hindsight on our trade deals (promoted by both sides of the aisle at different times), he might be the best at fixing them. Hence, one of my reasons for fence-sitting.
But lives? Can he be grace under fire, when it's real fire? Who can put aside his/her personality and look at the situation and make the best one for the country, perhaps even the world?
Hilary needs to also take economics/jobs very seriously and re-look at the trade deals - advice from Trump maybe. But I trust her hand on the nuclear button.
Which one is most likely going to make the best decisions for our country (and the world) in the important stuff like life and death (aka "national security")?
That best decision may include lying, hiding facts, triage, some dying deliberately or by friendly fire, etc. If there are sides - and in our world there are - it's all a giant poker game, with life-threatening stakes. I DONT CARE ABOUT THE EMAILS. I care about voting for the candidate who is most likely to make the best decision under the worst pressure (e.g., our citizens' lives, or more likely, our citizens' lives at the expense of some of our armed services citizens.)
Sure, Mr. Trump has played with high money stakes and is probably pretty darned good at it. And with the benefit of hindsight on our trade deals (promoted by both sides of the aisle at different times), he might be the best at fixing them. Hence, one of my reasons for fence-sitting.
But lives? Can he be grace under fire, when it's real fire? Who can put aside his/her personality and look at the situation and make the best one for the country, perhaps even the world?
Hilary needs to also take economics/jobs very seriously and re-look at the trade deals - advice from Trump maybe. But I trust her hand on the nuclear button.
2
"But I trust her hand on the nuclear button."
That's one of the larger sticks they use to beat you into submission with; there is only one possible entity that might set off a nuclear type device, which is more likely to be a dirty bomb, and believe me, its not any nation-state, its likely to be some hardcore mindless fundamentalist group, and even that is unlikely as these types understand they would not survive such an action.
Neither one of these fatally flawed candidates care one iota about you, and the rest of us; they care about keeping us deaf, dumb, blind and stupid, and don't forget "servile", and willing to believe the unbelievable, in other words, they want us to continue to be drones, the worker bees in the hive, and happy to be so.
That's one of the larger sticks they use to beat you into submission with; there is only one possible entity that might set off a nuclear type device, which is more likely to be a dirty bomb, and believe me, its not any nation-state, its likely to be some hardcore mindless fundamentalist group, and even that is unlikely as these types understand they would not survive such an action.
Neither one of these fatally flawed candidates care one iota about you, and the rest of us; they care about keeping us deaf, dumb, blind and stupid, and don't forget "servile", and willing to believe the unbelievable, in other words, they want us to continue to be drones, the worker bees in the hive, and happy to be so.
There is no fence to sit on. There is a cliff and you can walk back from it or go over it. You might not like the road or the accommodations along the way, but the other way leads to death.
1
Thank you. If, in the 25 years of relentless scrutiny Clinton has endured, anything remotely criminal emerged, she would have ben torn to shreds and her remains left littered across the floor. The worst they can come up with is a private server? That emerged after turning over every rock. The women is not a crooked liar. She needs to be cut a break.
4
It somehow doesn't even do it justice to say that Trump lies very regularly. That might suggest that there was something deliberate about it. It actually appears to be the case that he just doesn't know or care whether what he says has anything to do with reality or not. All that matters is that it makes him feel good to say it.
The man must be defeated, along with the party that had the poor judgement to nominate him.
The man must be defeated, along with the party that had the poor judgement to nominate him.
5
Both Clinton and Trump are serial liars. Neither has a clue how to fix our broken economy nor lead the free world. Sad that these are the two choices we have been given.
4
So, it's a matter of the lesser of two evils. Trump is scary and dangerous. Clinton, I just couldn't take. All those years of that ended in "it depends on what "is" is, or something similar, just completely turned me off to the whole bunch of them. Is it just me or have other people had enough of those shenanigans.
1
Clearly the Republicans have nothing to offer other than "Hillary is a crook." On the other hand, this seems like it might be coded misogyny, just like the Obama's birth certificate nonsense was coded racism. The "lock her up" ranters are really saying that she's strayed out of her proper place.
3
The Republicans need nothing other than Hillary's crookedness.
The best revelations are yet to come.
Tough to campaign from a jail cell.
The best revelations are yet to come.
Tough to campaign from a jail cell.
1
"But it’s also true that as the plane prepared to descend, security officials gave a spine-chilling briefing of the risks of sniper fire, and Clinton wore body armor in case of shooting."
Wow, they gave a spine-chilling briefing and she wore body armor! (just in case). That sounds like a stressor, she should claim PTSD. That might help explain her desire to put coal miners out of business.
Wow, they gave a spine-chilling briefing and she wore body armor! (just in case). That sounds like a stressor, she should claim PTSD. That might help explain her desire to put coal miners out of business.
3
Most inaccurate statements a person makes are not lies. Why don't we give politicians the same benefit of the doubt that we give ourselves? I personally have made thousands of inaccurate statements. Even though I consider myself a well informed person, further investigation proves me wrong half of the time.
It is clear to me, that the Bosnia landing story is a false memory--a conflation of remembered subjective experiences. Ask yourself: How many times have you argued with your spouse about the accuracy of his memory of an incident you both experienced?
In the case of the emails, it seems clear that Hillary was answering a question other than the one the journalist had asked. She was truthful in saying that her statements (in the FBI interview) were truthful.
Secondly, she cannot be assumed to have knowingly exchanged classified information in her emails. None were marked as classified when she sent or received them. If, out of 55,000 emails, less than a dozen were in fact later found to be classified, one cannot construe her a "liar". And of the three that had "c" markings, two were in fact unclassified.
I really suspect that a strong case of group-think has been consuming the media world, including the New York Times and the Washington Post. Issues are being conflated. Nit picking and sentence parsing are overruling context and meaning.
It is clear to me, that the Bosnia landing story is a false memory--a conflation of remembered subjective experiences. Ask yourself: How many times have you argued with your spouse about the accuracy of his memory of an incident you both experienced?
In the case of the emails, it seems clear that Hillary was answering a question other than the one the journalist had asked. She was truthful in saying that her statements (in the FBI interview) were truthful.
Secondly, she cannot be assumed to have knowingly exchanged classified information in her emails. None were marked as classified when she sent or received them. If, out of 55,000 emails, less than a dozen were in fact later found to be classified, one cannot construe her a "liar". And of the three that had "c" markings, two were in fact unclassified.
I really suspect that a strong case of group-think has been consuming the media world, including the New York Times and the Washington Post. Issues are being conflated. Nit picking and sentence parsing are overruling context and meaning.
6
Thank you. Clearly, Hillary was saying that she didn't lie to the FBI, which is factual. The news is trying to be balanced in its coverage by nit-picking Hillary to find some fault. That "false equivalency" is dangerous if it helps Trump.
1
Sorry, but she deliberately conflated the two by insisting Comey's statement about her FBI interview was consistent with what she had claimed publicly. She may have told the truth in the FBI interview but Comet later clarified that her previous statements were not true.
1
Doesn't anyone consider it sad and maybe even horrifying that a columnist thinks he is strongly defending a candidate for president by pointing out that one fact-checker listed "only" 27 percent of her statements false or mostly false, and that another listed "only" 16 percent as getting its worse rating for honesty?
4
That our two primary candidates for president necessitate this column should distress everyone.
Neither of the two is suitable for the office. Trump doesn't seem to care what he says, and Clinton stupidly lies when she KNOWS (or surely should know) that there are public documents confirming that she what she is about to say is demonstrably a lie.
How can so many Clinton supporters say it is OK for her to lie because her lies are smaller?
Obama finally released a redacted document on the rules for drone and other assassinations, but when you get to the end of it you find out that the rules disappear if the president feels like it - he got out of bed on the wrong side this morning, bang you and your taxi driver are dead. THAT is the power we are handing one of these two, and in that context I can not accept that the continual lying by either of them can be overlooked.
Trump is so over the top I believe that the GOP and Democrats will work together to prevent him from doing truly stupid things, especially with the military, or they will get together and impeach then convict him.
But I fear that the Democrats will exercise no such restraint on Hillary - and I fear the consequences of that.
Neither of the two is suitable for the office. Trump doesn't seem to care what he says, and Clinton stupidly lies when she KNOWS (or surely should know) that there are public documents confirming that she what she is about to say is demonstrably a lie.
How can so many Clinton supporters say it is OK for her to lie because her lies are smaller?
Obama finally released a redacted document on the rules for drone and other assassinations, but when you get to the end of it you find out that the rules disappear if the president feels like it - he got out of bed on the wrong side this morning, bang you and your taxi driver are dead. THAT is the power we are handing one of these two, and in that context I can not accept that the continual lying by either of them can be overlooked.
Trump is so over the top I believe that the GOP and Democrats will work together to prevent him from doing truly stupid things, especially with the military, or they will get together and impeach then convict him.
But I fear that the Democrats will exercise no such restraint on Hillary - and I fear the consequences of that.
3
Who's more honest? This question doesn't even apply to DJ Trump. He says whatever works with his audience of the moment, and whether it is true, deceptive or whatever has no bearing. The criterion is "Does this group like what I'm saying?" That's it. That's all.
9
Yes, it is true that Director Comey answered a question asked by the skinny, sweaty Chairman of the House investigation about whether public statements made my Hillary were factually true by saying "they were not." But somehow you media types, even the best of you, can't seem to get it through your heads that making a factually untrue statement is not the equivalent of a LIE unless the purpose of making such a statement is to deceive.
Maybe Hillary did lie. Or maybe she said what she believed to be true. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt because I know how often I misstate the facts. I'll cut her the same slack I would like others to cut for me. Seems like a good rule, maybe even a golden one.
Maybe Hillary did lie. Or maybe she said what she believed to be true. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt because I know how often I misstate the facts. I'll cut her the same slack I would like others to cut for me. Seems like a good rule, maybe even a golden one.
3
Trump is the creation of Republican Congressmen who swore to obstruct everything Pres. Obama did and make him a one-term president. Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck are also to blame for repeating lies about Obama's administration. Now Trump rises up with his Messiah complex and promises these hate-filled people they can have what they want. He has no experience in any form of government, and since June 2015 has shown no interest in learning. He's a laughingstock with the ego of Marie Antoinette.
2
Query are Clinton's prevarications related to behaviors she engaged in versus Trump's puffing in making various claims. In HRC's mind does she view it as "what's the difference." Trump is a deeply flawed candidate but that does not make me conclude that HRC is truthful.
2
This is funny - if one asks a cheating husband if he loves his wife the answer would probably ( 90% probability) be Yes. No one wants to bare their chests to the press.
I consider my more independent now than ever, and enjoy the outdoors, hunting, fishing so naturally I would have leaned republican and for Trunmp, but I cannot vote for somebody who has so little regard for the truth and the best interest of this great nation. He has not sacraficed in any part of his live for his God or Country and won't even release his tax records to prove that he's paid his fair share of taxes! He wants us to "trust him" it's time to prove it!
4
Mr. Diaz, if you value the out of doors, then why would you "lean" toward folks who want to sell off out national forests and national parks to developers? If the Repubs get their way you'll eventually be able to visit Marriott's Grand Canyon Park, but it'll cost you and your family several hundred bucks just to get in.
1
Let's be real. Trump is a blowhard and everyone knows it. The problem isn't that he's a fount of misinformation. The problem is that, all things considered, he's a foolish man running a stupid campaign. He will continue to do well, however, until we find the child who announces to all, near and far, that the emperor is wearing no clothes.
7
Very sad situation. My wife says she will not go back to America that we love, if Trump gets elected. Many of your friends in Europe are dismayed that these two are all you could get as candidates for what is probably the most important job in the world.
Too bad for HC she is on video looking straight into the camera lying nonstop. It was particularly horrific watching her blame the Benghazi deaths on the "video" over those caskets with the family members present. You never got to the lies about that cauldron known as the Clinton Foundation that is really an influence peddling and money laundering scheme for enrichment. Why don't you investigate the real percentage of that organization that goes somewhere other than the Clinton's bank account. I hear it's not available.
3
So, essentially you're saying that we should vote for the lesser of two evils? If so, so be it. I'll vote for Hillary, because this is the real world. A world where a man who doesn't know the difference between the Quds and Kurds, who can't remember that Ukraine was already invaded and can't recall the number of rooms in his own home has no business being president. I live on Long Island, and I have no illusions that a Trump presidency is an invitation to look west toward mushroom clouds sprouting over Manhattan.
And yet... Hillary lost a real opportunity by not coming clean the moment the story broke, and even afterward. Imagine if I could have told my daughter "Here is a woman of principle, who owned up to her mistakes and let the world know that it was only *her*, not her aides, not anyone else, that made this mistake in judgment. 'I was wrong', she said, 'but I've resolved to learn from my mistake'."
Alas, this didn't happen. It would have been a powerful moment--a moment that would have even humanized her, putting her above the sea of fibs that every politician learns to navigate.
Hillary, I will vote for you, but remember this episode and learn from it. We will be watching.
And yet... Hillary lost a real opportunity by not coming clean the moment the story broke, and even afterward. Imagine if I could have told my daughter "Here is a woman of principle, who owned up to her mistakes and let the world know that it was only *her*, not her aides, not anyone else, that made this mistake in judgment. 'I was wrong', she said, 'but I've resolved to learn from my mistake'."
Alas, this didn't happen. It would have been a powerful moment--a moment that would have even humanized her, putting her above the sea of fibs that every politician learns to navigate.
Hillary, I will vote for you, but remember this episode and learn from it. We will be watching.
6
Simple.
President Barack Obama was not born in the USA, vs using a private email server.
Informed Americans will decide in Novemeber.
President Barack Obama was not born in the USA, vs using a private email server.
Informed Americans will decide in Novemeber.
8
CNN, MSNC, FOX, and the major broadcast media perpetuate the narrative that Clinton is viewed as untrustworthy by voters. Yet they neither deal with the underlying facts nor compare Clinton to Trump. This enables the false equivalency that has been a feature of news reporting for years. It bolsters Republicans and undermines Democrats. This is doubly true to for the presidential election.
4
Sorry. I'm tired of hearing about the emails, and how "dishonest", "sneaky" "cold" and "untrustworthy" Clinton is.
I don't care if people have to hold their noses, cross their fingers, or wear garlic in order to vote for her.
I just care that they vote for her. Because the alternative is just God-awful, and life in this country under a Republican President, Congress and Supreme Court would not be worth living.
Sorry Progressives, Independents, and Libertarians -- but you should have gotten onboard this Presidential train-ride a long time ago. It's too late now.
For those who think that Donald Trump will make America great again, after witnessing him insult and deride almost every section of the American public, Your power to delude yourselves is amazing. Have fun.
And to the rest of us who live with the dread that this uncontolled and uncontrollable demagogue will somehow cheat and lie his way into the White House, Good Luck.
Now renew your passports.
I don't care if people have to hold their noses, cross their fingers, or wear garlic in order to vote for her.
I just care that they vote for her. Because the alternative is just God-awful, and life in this country under a Republican President, Congress and Supreme Court would not be worth living.
Sorry Progressives, Independents, and Libertarians -- but you should have gotten onboard this Presidential train-ride a long time ago. It's too late now.
For those who think that Donald Trump will make America great again, after witnessing him insult and deride almost every section of the American public, Your power to delude yourselves is amazing. Have fun.
And to the rest of us who live with the dread that this uncontolled and uncontrollable demagogue will somehow cheat and lie his way into the White House, Good Luck.
Now renew your passports.
5
I am convinced that the whole problem with Trump when it comes to lying is that Trump does not know in his own mind when he is telling the truth vs. telling a lie.
Not sure what mental health professionals would call this condition but there is something seriously wrong with Trump.
Trump is a disaster. He must not become POTUS.
Not sure what mental health professionals would call this condition but there is something seriously wrong with Trump.
Trump is a disaster. He must not become POTUS.
2
This is one of the results of rampant "both sides"-ism that grips American journalism, the desperate need to always strain to find a fault with Democrats if you mention a fault of Republicans, even if in reality Republicans slid farther and farther to the extreme right while Democrats remained essentially moderate or even slightly conservative. In fact, this forced fair and balanced urge was instrumental in allowing this slide to extremism to happen. Many people believed it wasn't happening at all, since every time they read or heard an example of it, they heard "But Democrats have their extremists also of course..."
Nicholas Kristof should remember this next time he's about to pen a column about how "liberal intolerance" is as much to blame for the rise of the extreme right as anything else. I've seen him be one of the worst offenders in this regard, and the actual liberal online world ridicules him for it on a regular basis.
Nicholas Kristof should remember this next time he's about to pen a column about how "liberal intolerance" is as much to blame for the rise of the extreme right as anything else. I've seen him be one of the worst offenders in this regard, and the actual liberal online world ridicules him for it on a regular basis.
3
Hillary's lies are pretty colossal since they concern National Security and her desire to keep everything private and willing to break federal law to do it.
Jame Comey phrased her errors as large. Hillary has s problem, she can;t stop lying. She lied when she was First Lady, she lied when she was Sec. of State. It seems like at every major event in her life she lies.
Can anyone seriously believe a think this woman's says. Lying is part of her nature.
Jame Comey phrased her errors as large. Hillary has s problem, she can;t stop lying. She lied when she was First Lady, she lied when she was Sec. of State. It seems like at every major event in her life she lies.
Can anyone seriously believe a think this woman's says. Lying is part of her nature.
6
Could you please provide your unimpeachable source for all of these lies? It seems to me that many of these claims come from the uninterrupted onslaught of accusations, investigations, and amplification that have been targeted at her since she entered national politics. All politicians spin the news to portray themselves in the best possible light: in order to do so they must generate statements that by definition flavor the interpretation of the data. Thus a layer of subjective gloss is laid over unvarnished facts. The further the spin the greater the deviation from the underlying data. Where does this cross the line to becoming scarily egregious.
What scares me the most is someone who lies about qualifications, refuses to release the evidence (tax returns) that could prove or disprove the very claims that are being made. As the voting public, we should demand greater transparency from our contestants.
What scares me the most is someone who lies about qualifications, refuses to release the evidence (tax returns) that could prove or disprove the very claims that are being made. As the voting public, we should demand greater transparency from our contestants.
1
Hilllary's refusal to give Press Conference stands out. What about Benghazi? What about the E-Mails,
When asked about the E-mails she contradicted everything Comey said.
Remember the Rose Law firm?
What about the stuff she stole from the WH -- There were articles about how much stuff they had to return etc.
When asked about the E-mails she contradicted everything Comey said.
Remember the Rose Law firm?
What about the stuff she stole from the WH -- There were articles about how much stuff they had to return etc.
3 of HRC's emails, out of 30,000, had content that was marked (C), making it possibly classified. If she was perfect, those should not have passed through her e-mail server.
That's about as close to perfect as you can get: 99.99% of the e-mails contained no classified material.
Show me anyone who does better than that.
That's about as close to perfect as you can get: 99.99% of the e-mails contained no classified material.
Show me anyone who does better than that.
4
If if the examples of Clinton "lying" used in this column are the best you've got, she is a paragon of truthfulness. Changing positions on the TPP isn't a lie. The media has tortured what Clinton said about Comey to the point that Clinton has apologized for saying something she never said. She said that Comey testified that her statements to the FBI were truthful - which he did although phrasing it in the negative (i.e., no basis for concluding that she had been untruthful). Clinton then went on to say that her public statements were consistent with what she told the FBI in the interview Comey concluded was truthful. She never said Comey testified directly about her public statements. Glen Kessler's fact check on her statement was in inconsistent with Comey's testimony and divorced from what Clinton actually said.
3
"Changing positions on the TPP isn't a lie. "
No, but claiming you have consistently, always been against the TPP certainly is when there is so much video and other evidence to the contrary.
No, but claiming you have consistently, always been against the TPP certainly is when there is so much video and other evidence to the contrary.
2
I read a piece once, written by a doctor who treated stroke victims who had lost the ability to speak, but who otherwise had their faculties intact. That particular group of stroke victims are known for developing a heightened ability to read facial cues and body language, and detecting when people are lying, as good poker players read ’tells’ that telegraph a bluff. One evening the doc noticed a group of his patients in the TV lounge of their hospital ward cracking up. Ronald Reagan was giving a speech in response to the Iran-Contra scandal he created. The doc asked one of the patients what was so funny. The patient wrote a note: “He’s lying through his teeth!”
3
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Trump uses untruthful statements to make himself look strong in the face of a doom. So he follows his simple narrative. Clinton is basically honest but has a more complicated, more robust policy position. She has to try to explain policy as a "good politician" keeping the citizens informed about what she actually intends to do.
TPP? well a two party system requires the coalitions be made before the election, and the candidate may have to adjust to the electorate. GHW Bush got in trouble with "no new taxes", but Reagan didn't. But the taxes were good policy. That is not really a "Lie". TPP is a technical issue and will be sorted out by congress, like NAFTA. It is likely on the right side of history.
Now the emails is an entirely different issue. The email server didn't suffer a breach as far as I know. It kept some of the "Classified" personal conversations out of the press, which is why the press (self-servingly) hate the idea that someone could have private conversations or secret thoughts that they can't discover. So they would like a policy that all thoughts be written down. But so far as I can discern there was nothing that happened because of the emails. Exceeding the speed limit is serious crime only when you hit a school bus. These emails were benign. So Media, get over it and stop reporting about it. Try to explain whether TPP is a good or bad policy, that is your job.
TPP? well a two party system requires the coalitions be made before the election, and the candidate may have to adjust to the electorate. GHW Bush got in trouble with "no new taxes", but Reagan didn't. But the taxes were good policy. That is not really a "Lie". TPP is a technical issue and will be sorted out by congress, like NAFTA. It is likely on the right side of history.
Now the emails is an entirely different issue. The email server didn't suffer a breach as far as I know. It kept some of the "Classified" personal conversations out of the press, which is why the press (self-servingly) hate the idea that someone could have private conversations or secret thoughts that they can't discover. So they would like a policy that all thoughts be written down. But so far as I can discern there was nothing that happened because of the emails. Exceeding the speed limit is serious crime only when you hit a school bus. These emails were benign. So Media, get over it and stop reporting about it. Try to explain whether TPP is a good or bad policy, that is your job.
3
If there were were anything, short of possibly killing a puppy on live television, that Donald Trump could do or say to make his supporters bail, they would’ve already. There is no line.
Making deeply creepy and sexist remarks about women, including his own daughter; disrespecting an American veteran who endured terrible torture; mocking the disabled; insulting all Hispanics, evidently unaware that there is a substantial number of Hispanic Americans; declaring bankruptcy many times; lying about his charitable contributions; bilking contractors, tradesmen, and students of his “university”; boasting of adultery; boasting about the size of his penis on national television; humiliating a mother with an infant; displaying profound ignorance on every topic related to governance or our Constitution; offering to shoot the families of suspected terrorists; offering to punish women who terminate pregnancies; cozying up to super-creepy Russian KGB guy Putin; inviting a foreign to influence our elections; wondering aloud how come we don’t use nukes; encouraging mobs at his rallies, and setting the stage for mass violence if he loses a “rigged” election; and finally, disparaging the mother of a fallen American soldier who was posthumously awarded the Bronze Star for saving his comrades under fire: If there were anything, anything, any possible unseemliness, breach of civility, vulgarity or outrage that he could commit to lose his backers, they would have already left.
Making deeply creepy and sexist remarks about women, including his own daughter; disrespecting an American veteran who endured terrible torture; mocking the disabled; insulting all Hispanics, evidently unaware that there is a substantial number of Hispanic Americans; declaring bankruptcy many times; lying about his charitable contributions; bilking contractors, tradesmen, and students of his “university”; boasting of adultery; boasting about the size of his penis on national television; humiliating a mother with an infant; displaying profound ignorance on every topic related to governance or our Constitution; offering to shoot the families of suspected terrorists; offering to punish women who terminate pregnancies; cozying up to super-creepy Russian KGB guy Putin; inviting a foreign to influence our elections; wondering aloud how come we don’t use nukes; encouraging mobs at his rallies, and setting the stage for mass violence if he loses a “rigged” election; and finally, disparaging the mother of a fallen American soldier who was posthumously awarded the Bronze Star for saving his comrades under fire: If there were anything, anything, any possible unseemliness, breach of civility, vulgarity or outrage that he could commit to lose his backers, they would have already left.
10
I can't even comment - a lie is a lie - fibs are lies - there's no difference between 'fibbing' and lying when it pertains to something of a serious nature. We're not children who can't understand the difference between right and wrong. Hillary and Donald have both lied - several times - and one of them will our next President. No good choices.
3
Not true.
Your hair is beautiful tonight is a fib that may demonstrate a partner's discretion. I was working at the office all night is more likely to represent a significant indiscretion.
Nothing classified went through my email server minor with probably no ramification as anything classified over that period was probably released by Snowden or Manning anyway.
Climate Change is a Chinese Hoax can end the world as we know it.
The Donald is a threat to the country and the planet. HRC is the only possible choice for thinking people who live in reality.
Your hair is beautiful tonight is a fib that may demonstrate a partner's discretion. I was working at the office all night is more likely to represent a significant indiscretion.
Nothing classified went through my email server minor with probably no ramification as anything classified over that period was probably released by Snowden or Manning anyway.
Climate Change is a Chinese Hoax can end the world as we know it.
The Donald is a threat to the country and the planet. HRC is the only possible choice for thinking people who live in reality.
3
Hillary doesn't care about money, she is working for all the little people.
Lie or fib?
Lie or fib?
The discussion of whether there were classified emails on Clinton's server, whether they were properly marked, etc. is completely beside the point. The fact is that she did government business on a server in her home instead of using a secure government server, as the White House directed its cabinet officers to do. I am a retired computer professional, almost 50 years in the business, including working on the Arpanet and then the Internet in their early days. I have never seen a credible explanation for why Clinton handled her email as she did. Smartphones even of 2009 were fully capable of dealing with two email accounts on different servers and of doing encryption when requested. Ray LaHood, Obama's first Sec'y of Transportation is on public record as doing just that, with one device in his pocket.
So this is a matter not of finding needles in email-stacks. It's a matter of judgment, Clinton's judgment. Voting for the Iraq War Resolution was also a matter of judgment and doing so without reading the National Intelligence Estimate is incredibly damning.
Clinton is a very flawed candidate. The difficulty is that she is running against someone who is a caricature of who should not be president. So we need to vote for Clinton simply to prevent an obvious maniac from being given the nuclear codes.
But I think this whole sorry story says a lot about *our* judgment and the process we use to choose presidential candidates.
So this is a matter not of finding needles in email-stacks. It's a matter of judgment, Clinton's judgment. Voting for the Iraq War Resolution was also a matter of judgment and doing so without reading the National Intelligence Estimate is incredibly damning.
Clinton is a very flawed candidate. The difficulty is that she is running against someone who is a caricature of who should not be president. So we need to vote for Clinton simply to prevent an obvious maniac from being given the nuclear codes.
But I think this whole sorry story says a lot about *our* judgment and the process we use to choose presidential candidates.
3
Trump is simply a grifter. Always has been. Always will be.
The paper of record needs to stop using the world "billionaire" when referring to the Donald unless it has unimpeachable evidence that he in fact is.
Any "developer" who sucks enough money out of not one, not two, not three, but four Atlantic City casinos to the point of bankruptcy ain't no billionaire. He's a guy with a lifestyle that requires an ongoing flow of cash. Cash which he himself actually doesn't have.
Capiche?
The paper of record needs to stop using the world "billionaire" when referring to the Donald unless it has unimpeachable evidence that he in fact is.
Any "developer" who sucks enough money out of not one, not two, not three, but four Atlantic City casinos to the point of bankruptcy ain't no billionaire. He's a guy with a lifestyle that requires an ongoing flow of cash. Cash which he himself actually doesn't have.
Capiche?
9
I think I speak for most sane Americans when I say this.
I will take a well qualified, disciplined, intelligent, mature, pro-choice, anti-NRA, pro-equal pay, pro-affordable collage tuition, pro-immigration reformer, pro-gay rights, pro-affordable healthcare candidate for president who may have used her email server in a way that is NOW against the protocols of a government official verses a child-man who has continually proven with all his statements, his lack of diplomacy, his name calling, being easily provoked when he feels personally attacked and the need to "hit back hard" when he is, to be unfit to hold the nuclear codes.
And CNN just aired a piece about the actual size of his hands....they are infact much smaller than most men's hands.
I will take a well qualified, disciplined, intelligent, mature, pro-choice, anti-NRA, pro-equal pay, pro-affordable collage tuition, pro-immigration reformer, pro-gay rights, pro-affordable healthcare candidate for president who may have used her email server in a way that is NOW against the protocols of a government official verses a child-man who has continually proven with all his statements, his lack of diplomacy, his name calling, being easily provoked when he feels personally attacked and the need to "hit back hard" when he is, to be unfit to hold the nuclear codes.
And CNN just aired a piece about the actual size of his hands....they are infact much smaller than most men's hands.
12
The reason we care enough to quantify who is the Biggest Liar in a political race escapes me. It's politics. They all lie. Does the degree matter or is it just because we have a Liar that is supremely productive in his task?
1
When pilgrims sit before travelling preacher under the tent, they don't bother to fact check the horse patootie fed to them. The sermon sounds great, the preacher is believeable -- and the money taken out of their pockets is relatively painless. This then explains Trump supporters willingness to believe the lies fed to them: if it sounds great, gosh darn it, it must be true!
By their actions, surely, should we judge them.
She has multiple counts of service - he has none.
He has bilked students and contractors, she milked Wall Street got speaking fees.
She has worked closely with two presidents over twelve years in office - he ran companies that go bankrupt.
Who can you trust based in the evidence?
She has multiple counts of service - he has none.
He has bilked students and contractors, she milked Wall Street got speaking fees.
She has worked closely with two presidents over twelve years in office - he ran companies that go bankrupt.
Who can you trust based in the evidence?
3
Good try, but Hillary needs to be more upfront about her lies. Her press conference was a disaster. All she does is lie about her lies. Kristoff counts the number of Trump's lies, but what he is lying about--his business success, conversations he never had with Putin, etc. just don't seem as serious as Hillary's. It's just puffery which is not as serious as Hillary's deeply ingrained deceptiveness. As the campaign goes on, she keeps filtering herself and adding layers which only make her look more secretive and remote. Voters want to feel they know a candidate, but she always appears elusive.
4
@StanC: If I were u and I sought credibility, I would not cite Sanders under any circumstances, who quickly returned to the fold and endorsed Hillary once he realized he faced a stacked deck in the collusion between HRC and DWS to rig the nomination for HRC. Bernie broke a lot of hearts.I knew he was not serious when, early on in a debate he said he had heard enough about those "damned e mails,"with Clinton with a big smile on her face saying,"I agree!I agree!"Thus, the most serious thing about his campaign is that it was not serious.When all was said and done,we were treated to an exercise in perfidiousness, with Bernie in the convention hall shilling for Hillary, and his supporters outside demonstrating in 100 degree plus heat. Sanders even went along with HRC's demand that his supporters allow their signs to be confiscated. Bernie is happily back now with the establishment, having been brought in from the cold, and promised political favors if he goes on the campaign trail for Clinton, whom he once called "unqualified to be President."Donald Trump, by comparison,must feel like an honest man.
4
Secretary Clinton would regain the trust supposedly lost by coming straight our and saying that she did not know that 2 e-mails out of 30,000 contained a "classified marking" and then demonstrating with an example of the e-mail FBI director Comey alluded to i.e. one with a trail of messages in a chain, way in the middle of which a section could have a "C" within a little circle. No one would be expected to detect the letter C way down an e-mail chain. That is what I understood from director Comey's testimony. That "C" made the e-mail classified. So in a technical sense the e-mail was classified and Director Comey was right. Hilary in a sense was right because she keeps stressing that she did not lie to the FBI which totally misses the point and keeps this issue alive. She could easily deal with it. However, her main mistake was the handing over the server for scrubbing personal e-mails to her lawyers instead of the FBI - for this she should admit a "mea culpa" seek forgiveness and move on. Ultimately with the facts thus provided, the pubic can make a judgement as to whether she is "trustworthy" or not.
1
I agree with you generally but think you are wrong on the James Comey issue I watched that whole thing -- Comey said there were 3 emails (out of what 3,000?) that were classified but were marked incorrectly and that anybody could have missed them -- and so it was reasonable that when she said none of the material was classified she in fact believed it --- I think the false equivalency that reporters (like you) seem to be making on this issue is not only ridiculous but perpetuating this shallow view that she straightup lied about the emails -- I believe Comey choose not to prosecute her because he believed nobody in her situation has, could or should be convicted of breaking the law
4
This piece, particularly the headline, requires its own fact-checking. When someone says something false, there are two possibilities -- either they are lying or they are mistaken. Not every misstatement is a lie.
1
Comey exonerated her pure and simple. "No reasonable prosecutor" would pursue this case. The rest of the statement was puffed up moralizing. Coney, moreover, misled and twisted facts himself!
For example, he suggested the account had been hacked; it wasn't. He suggested important information was compromised; it wasn't. He suggested Clinton used multiple devices on the server at the same time; she didn't. Despite his clear desire to damage her politically, however, he could not find even a shred of real wrongdoing.
For example, he suggested the account had been hacked; it wasn't. He suggested important information was compromised; it wasn't. He suggested Clinton used multiple devices on the server at the same time; she didn't. Despite his clear desire to damage her politically, however, he could not find even a shred of real wrongdoing.
7
As a moderate Democrat I certainly appreciate the clarity on Trump's record regarding truth, but have to agree that Clinton's transgressions are given an undeserved light touch. She clearly lied about government matters in which she was involved and no mention here is made of the egregious manner in which the Clinton Fiundation has operated as a cash cow for them and their machine with rampant conflict of interest - as documented in the NYT. In this regard the Clintons seem to be the American answer to Juan and Evita Peron.
2
sadly, neither inspires...but hrc wins the prize on orders of magnitude...just as there are degrees on difficulty in, say, diving, her email stuff and other shifting about on major issues that involve the security of all of us., gets the prize...by comparison trump is a blowhard...neither should have the key to the gun cabinet or the safe deposit box
2
It's also sad to me that we need a column to explain to us why one candidate's lies are less important that the other candidates's lies. How has it come to this?
5
The Iraq war wasn't a fib, it was a huge lie told by Bush/Cheney and sold to the people by Hillary and others. It wasn't an "Intelligence Failure" it was a lie and Hillary went along with it.
We are not fighting "Terrorism" in the greater Middle East, that's a lie. We are fighting to control the oil. The oil that is choking the planet and causing global warming but Hillary is going on with the lie about fighting "Terrorism".
By every measure Hillary has done far more damage to the world than Trump.
The $2,000,000,000,000 botched armed robbery of the middle east has caused the death of a million people and caused the refugee crisis that is destroying the EU and has made life hell for millions of people and Hillary wants to keep it going, all based on lies, not fibs.
Hillary is far more dangerous than Trump and a much more proficient liar than he and has done and will do far more damage if elected.
We are not fighting "Terrorism" in the greater Middle East, that's a lie. We are fighting to control the oil. The oil that is choking the planet and causing global warming but Hillary is going on with the lie about fighting "Terrorism".
By every measure Hillary has done far more damage to the world than Trump.
The $2,000,000,000,000 botched armed robbery of the middle east has caused the death of a million people and caused the refugee crisis that is destroying the EU and has made life hell for millions of people and Hillary wants to keep it going, all based on lies, not fibs.
Hillary is far more dangerous than Trump and a much more proficient liar than he and has done and will do far more damage if elected.
1
Roy: Iraq? Clinton never sold that to anyone. For God's sake read the Congressional bill she and others voted on. Bush betrayed that Congressional resolution and would have been impeached had he been a Democrat.
3
They are both pathological liars, but Trump is more dangerous than Hillary. Where is our viable third party candidate?
1
And if the human race survives him, how Trump blundered into a cult of personality that believes everything he says will be studied by politcal scientists for years...or until the radiation sickness kills them, whichever comes first.
2
I wonder what the author of the famous line that Hillary Clinton is a "congenital liar" would be writing now if he were still alive. We miss you, Bill Safire.
Speak for yourself. I do not, even in the least, miss this priggish, pseudo intellectual who believed that anyone outside the closed northeastern elitist enclave was a bumpkin -- a particularly offensive posture for a man who moved from the marketing area (that would be selling ads) to the editorial area. Admittedly, he had a flair for language, but was so unutterably, rigidly bound to his far right ideology and his elitism that he could not process thought or idea outside that narrow construct. He brought absolutely nothing to the American conversation.
Pitiful..Our presidential election has come down to who is the least dishonest.
2
Well, it pretty much has always been such except not so vocally in our faces.
1
So, is that how we are to choose a president of the United States? Go with the one who lies the least?
1
Unfortunately better than going with the one that lies the most
1
Ugh. Can this get any more disgusting?
The Clintons have a problem with the truth but in their case it's calculated, conscious and well hidden. This conscious concealment raises further concern in that they are trying to fool the listener and it's only with the listener's cooperation that it's possible.
Too many people are happy that HRC is "their liar" and not someone else's liar. The other party's liar is horrible but their liar is great. This is very tribal and the result is that it lowers the bar for all candidates.
Trump exists because Hillary exists. The bar is on the ground and it's a free-for-all. Trump rambles on and makes all kinds of statements but truth has been thrown under the boss a long time ago so it's really not a big deal.
I miss Bernie. I didn't agree with him on everything but he had integrity and good intentions. He could be worked with. Now we are left to debate liars. Are you happy now DNC, NYT's and HRC's lapdogs?
The Clintons have a problem with the truth but in their case it's calculated, conscious and well hidden. This conscious concealment raises further concern in that they are trying to fool the listener and it's only with the listener's cooperation that it's possible.
Too many people are happy that HRC is "their liar" and not someone else's liar. The other party's liar is horrible but their liar is great. This is very tribal and the result is that it lowers the bar for all candidates.
Trump exists because Hillary exists. The bar is on the ground and it's a free-for-all. Trump rambles on and makes all kinds of statements but truth has been thrown under the boss a long time ago so it's really not a big deal.
I miss Bernie. I didn't agree with him on everything but he had integrity and good intentions. He could be worked with. Now we are left to debate liars. Are you happy now DNC, NYT's and HRC's lapdogs?
3
Trump exaggerated Hillary lied, big difference. The press "fact checks" like a pig looking for truffles, oh how tasty! It is absurd to compare Trump with a seasoned political liar like Hillary. He is an amateur. He says what's on his mind and if it is not correct it's because he misinformed. Saying something that is wrong is not lying. Hillary deliberately tried to twist the facts to cover her callous disregard for state secrets.
6
Have you counted the actual number of fabrications, self-contradictory statements, etc made by each candidate and then generated a truthfulness ratio? If someone "exaggerates" and then immediately states the opposite, would not one of these have to be a lie by definition. I find it highly problematic when people make claims unsubstantiated with facts
In our house there wasn't much difference at all between a fib and an outright lie. The punishment was much the same- sudden, swift and certainly severe. JGAIA
3
Trump even lied about the NFL. That is just so wrong! This America where everyone loves football, right?
1
In other words, Mrs. Clinton is a lawyer and a politician but is just who she claims to be. Her opponent is a fraud, a con man, who is selling a completely phony persona. What successful multi-billionaire real estate developer would have anything to do with an out and out small potato scam such as Trump University.
7
People, wake up! If Cheney did what Hillary did with her official emails, you libs would be crying bloody murder!
Hillary had no right to have a private server! Those documents belong to the US taxpayer, not her! everything she said about the server has been a blatant lie! Dhe illegally handled and forwarded highly classified materials! Anyone else would be in jail.
And I wish the NY Times would give up he act of it being an actually newspaper! The one sided coverage is a mockery of journalism.
Hillary had no right to have a private server! Those documents belong to the US taxpayer, not her! everything she said about the server has been a blatant lie! Dhe illegally handled and forwarded highly classified materials! Anyone else would be in jail.
And I wish the NY Times would give up he act of it being an actually newspaper! The one sided coverage is a mockery of journalism.
4
What Cheney lied to the American people and the world about was far worse. We did cry bloody murder. He is a free man getting gold plated health care today at the expense of the American tax payer.
4
@Matt. Actually, Colon Powell did much, much worse when he was Sec. of State. If you care to read the Inspector General's report (easily accessible on line), you will learn that, not only did he use a private account for all of his official emails, he then destroyed all of the messages before leaving office. That was an unequivocal and egregious violation of the Federal Records Act, about which he has never even been questioned, much less smeared or investigated. Hillary preserved her official emails. In addition, according to the Inspector General's report (p. 19, if you care to look), there was no law, rule, or regulation at the time HRC was SoS prohibiting the use of a private server for official business at the State Dept. That didn't become illegal until Congress amended the FRA in December 2014, nearly 2 years after she left office.
The report also documents that many high-level DOS employees used their private email accounts for work because the official system was antiquated, slow, and inefficient. Blame that on the do-nothing Republicans in Congress.
Finally, it is simply an outright falsehood that she ever sent even one "highly classified" email from that server. It never happened and no one -- not the IG, not Comey, not anyone -- claims otherwise. People need to get out of the Fox News bubble.
The report also documents that many high-level DOS employees used their private email accounts for work because the official system was antiquated, slow, and inefficient. Blame that on the do-nothing Republicans in Congress.
Finally, it is simply an outright falsehood that she ever sent even one "highly classified" email from that server. It never happened and no one -- not the IG, not Comey, not anyone -- claims otherwise. People need to get out of the Fox News bubble.
3
People of true integrity lie less and own up to their lies when caught. They also try not to lie harder than others. A person of true integrity does the job he/she was hired to do. this person will not sell out or betray the ones who hired them. in this case I'm talking about the voters. neither candidate fills that trust. Oh where oh where can we find someone who isn't worried about an assassin's bullet ending their career for stepping out of line to the real powers that be?
2
So we have two liars as the two top candidates to run the most powerful country in the world. Her lies aren't as big? You must not have children. What do we tell our children about these two incompetent, lying rogues? One tells bigger lies than the other. How far we have fallen.
5
Since the name of Glenn Kessler was invoked, here's one of his most recent posts that, rather than resorting to weasel words, uses one that's unambiguous and easily understood -- "recidivism":
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/08/04/recidivis...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/08/04/recidivis...
1
I subscribe to the New Yorker and read Jane Mayer article about Tony Schwartz when it was published. The damning things that Mr. Schwartz said about Trump should give everyone pause.
Equally damning is some of the things another reporter, Wayne Barrett, said in that article, such as this one: "Barrett notes that in 'The Art of the Deal' Trump describes his father as having been born in New Jersey to Swedish parents; in fact, he was born in the Bronx to German parents." Another whopper.
Equally damning is some of the things another reporter, Wayne Barrett, said in that article, such as this one: "Barrett notes that in 'The Art of the Deal' Trump describes his father as having been born in New Jersey to Swedish parents; in fact, he was born in the Bronx to German parents." Another whopper.
2
imagine a global conference where every head of state tells lies, lies and more lies.guess, where the humanity is heading for...lies by leaders should be declared a political n social crime.after all it affects millions n billions of thoughts n decisions that build the world everyday. lie in public life is far more serious than we tend to think. hope, it's taken seriously for the life in world' sake!
Comey said none of the emails were "properly marked classified", (please see video in story below). So it seems she is right.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/hillary-clinton-isnt-lying-the-fact-check...
http://www.mediaite.com/online/hillary-clinton-isnt-lying-the-fact-check...
6
Portion markings are sufficient to be considered marked classified, as someone like Clinton who was trained to identify classified material would know. Further, in many cases, it is irrelevant whether they were marked classified, as Clinton knew and assented to in her signed form pledging to protect both marked and unmarked classified material. As Clinton knew, some classified information is born classified. You should read Comey's entire statement rather than cherry-picked portions.
After seeing all the support for Donald Trump in this campaign cycle, I'm going to change my usual, "If you want to find out how ignorant most Americans are just serve on a jury," to "Remember the support that Trump got in 2016?"
5
Maybe the periods of dishonesty from Hillary stand out because she's just not very good at lying. Maybe she's actually mostly honest! Trump is a pro at creating his own reality, where the line between truth and lies becomes very fuzzy. This is a common behavior among folks down at the psychopathic end of the spectrum.
11
Commenters excoriate The Dumpster's supporters for being oblivious to facts. In fact, the supporters care less about the facts than about our obsession with them. The Dumpster is just the latest frontman for that part of America that dislikes progressive, urban, values, and dislikes those of us who embrace those values. Were we to ask, what can we do to reunite the country, to restore civil discourse, they would begin to list actions that we would find reprehensible: (1) outlaw abortion; (2) obliterate the infidel. We want them to recoil from the Dumpster, and yet they are busy recoiling from us. Whatever else the D says is irrelevant. He is the spokesperson for a pre-Enlightenment mentality. When he says "too much political correctness" what they hear is "Down with empiricism! Trust the ancient ways!" When he says he's gonna build a wall, they hear, "we are returning to a god-fearing medieval society when everyone lived in castles. They love the Dumpster Tower because of its phallic, feudal, symbolism. The surest way of consolidating their opposition to us is for the New York Times or the Washington Post or NPR to cite fact-checkers demonstrating that the Dumpster lies. Factual correctness is just a form of political correctness!"
The Gipper famously said an invasion by extraterrestrials would unite the world. The Dumpster is as close to an extraterrestrial as we may get, and yet far from uniting the United States, it seems only to have split us further apart.
The Gipper famously said an invasion by extraterrestrials would unite the world. The Dumpster is as close to an extraterrestrial as we may get, and yet far from uniting the United States, it seems only to have split us further apart.
6
Brilliant! Plus you also made me laugh: "Dumpster Tower." And you provided wisdom. Kudos!
2
Trump concoctions about policy are preposterous lies. No wall will ever be build. And if a few bricks are laid and cemented, not a single peso will be paid for by Mexicans.
What is more important is his policy pronouncements in which he has shown some consistency, namely guns, NATO and climate change. If anything threatens our bodies, lives and belongings more in the:
- very near term, now every day @ 30,000 per year
- medium term, in the first years of a Trump term, and
- longer term, from hear to eternity
it is these three matters, respectively.
The most troublesome part of this piece is not the % of minor vs. major fibs, but what Kristof mentions about the pace and timeframe in which direct contradictions take place. When I think of the threats of Trump’s mercurial and childish bombasts and tirades to international stability, our economy and the financial markets, it is way beyond worrisome.
Some will counter with HRC's evolved change in position on TPP. But Hillary has handled it a measured manner and only after new facts about its consequences came to light, and yes in the context of shifting political winds, which is an integral part of good decision-making.
As one independent, Michael Bloomberg has stated, Trump is a con man. As another independent, Mike Morrell, has forcefully warned us, Trump is a real threat to our national security.
What is more important is his policy pronouncements in which he has shown some consistency, namely guns, NATO and climate change. If anything threatens our bodies, lives and belongings more in the:
- very near term, now every day @ 30,000 per year
- medium term, in the first years of a Trump term, and
- longer term, from hear to eternity
it is these three matters, respectively.
The most troublesome part of this piece is not the % of minor vs. major fibs, but what Kristof mentions about the pace and timeframe in which direct contradictions take place. When I think of the threats of Trump’s mercurial and childish bombasts and tirades to international stability, our economy and the financial markets, it is way beyond worrisome.
Some will counter with HRC's evolved change in position on TPP. But Hillary has handled it a measured manner and only after new facts about its consequences came to light, and yes in the context of shifting political winds, which is an integral part of good decision-making.
As one independent, Michael Bloomberg has stated, Trump is a con man. As another independent, Mike Morrell, has forcefully warned us, Trump is a real threat to our national security.
7
Your pounts are well taken. There are two other measures to think about as we move forward. First is the disconnect between fact checks and the magnification of items already fact checked as lies by repeating them in news article or media reports without any reference to the dubious nature if the claim. There does not appear to be a price for repeating lies. Second is the focus on fact checking over content. With trump and he RNC not having any clear policy positions other than winning it would be interesting to start tabulating the actual content or lack of content which makes ramification odjes necessary. Paul Ryan and the RNC leadership go on and on about the need to contain Hillary as though this is something different than what they have done for the lSt 8 years with Obama. There are 3 standard reasons. One is the Supreme Court, a second is taxes and 3d character the. None of these reflect things that really seema to matter to the voters they are seeking. This makes the focus on"character" the easiest sell. If we had a daily count on the number if policy statements or discussions by each candidate it would help to expose the real rationale behind focussing in HRC's "lies"
3
Is this the best two that our country can port forth to the world to represent and lead us? Is there a link that when I was younger America was #1 for education in the world and now we're #30! Our politicians have let our infrastructure deteriorate to become dangerous - Clint and other cities' water, weak bridges, etc. Who leaves public office financially broke (except the Clintons)? Wake up America before we become a third world nation!
I was thinking I'd should go to Canada or New Zealand if it gets worse. I choose New Zealand - Reason - I can get a pet kangaroo to carry me groceries for the super market.
I was thinking I'd should go to Canada or New Zealand if it gets worse. I choose New Zealand - Reason - I can get a pet kangaroo to carry me groceries for the super market.
2
Nicholas Kristof - Let me try to understand this - lying about national security issues and destroying evidence is a fib, and a video about crated money is a HUGE LIE. You may have your priorities mixed up.
I bet your journalism professors are cringing.
I bet your journalism professors are cringing.
5
His journalism professors would be applauding. Good reporting is not recycling histrionic, misleading and deliberately manufactured agitprop in inflammatory sound bytes. Your comment being a case in point.
2
Mart, I don't agree with you but the distinction in severity of how each candidate spins their words is at the heart of whether one voting camp is more delusional than the other.
We all want change and this need for change is fodder for the con. Reminds me of the young girls who so badly wanted to be loved allowed themselves to be seduced by Ted bundy.
We all want change and this need for change is fodder for the con. Reminds me of the young girls who so badly wanted to be loved allowed themselves to be seduced by Ted bundy.
1
How about lying about the bizarre, pro-Russian changes to the GOP platform, saying the Trump campaign had nothing to do with it? Lying about the POTUS, saying he's a Muslim, an secret agent working for ISIS? Lying about his reasons for not releasing his tax returns? About whether or not he has a relationship with Putin? Just because Trump has never held public office doesn't mean that his lies don't compromise our national security and even endanger the POTUS.
2
Let's state the obvious here. That Hilary Clinton is condemned for so vehemently is purely sexism. Men have spread the most horrific lies throughout history. Religion, Nazism, you could go on forever. Now, name one movement, led by a woman, that has ever spread mistruth so widely. Hmmmm... Nope, don't have one. Women who are anything but pure as the driven snow are shamed. Men need never feel shame. This same mind set is playing out in this election.
11
I'm a Hillary supporter, but I think that one's mostly off base. Some of the visceral intensity around anti-Hillary propaganda is probably informed by sexism, but it's her tenacity and intelligence, and her willingness to fight back hard and mean without losing her cool - her steel - that has them scrambling for their little dirty bombs. It's one reason why we need her.
1
It's incredibly sad that both our major party choices are liars.
7
Kessler with only 6 years as a fact checker? What about thru all history of US politics? Never a bigger liar than DT. Clinton’s slippery but not like him.
Maybe we don’t have the luxury anymore of expecting a trustworthy president. Hope and change Obama marketed himself, did some progressive things, and also let us down. His halo shines right now.
My concern: What are a candidate’s belief systems about what our elected govt owes the majority of citizens? Princeton’s Martin Gilens and others shows most of our laws are passed per the wishes of the elites, ignoring the wishes of the majority---on taxes, jobs, h/c, education, Wall St, guns, etc.
Will Clinton work for us, or elites? Restore norms of past generations in the equality equation? Tax and regulate corporations that now legally dominate our elections and exploiting the public?
In 1932 a big difference between Pres Hoover and FDR was that despite the Depression’s widespread disaster for millions of citizens, Hoover’s belief was that it was NOT the place of the federal govt to take strong action to alleviate their distress. Charity and local govts should try to help.
FDR knew it WAS precisely the fed govt’s job to take aggressive action to intervene in the economic disaster. He didn’t shrink from using govt to experiment, and used a new breed of people in his cabinet, like Harry Hopkins, etc. He didn’t shrink from Wall St and their allies in congress.
Mr. Kristof.....relate this to today.
Maybe we don’t have the luxury anymore of expecting a trustworthy president. Hope and change Obama marketed himself, did some progressive things, and also let us down. His halo shines right now.
My concern: What are a candidate’s belief systems about what our elected govt owes the majority of citizens? Princeton’s Martin Gilens and others shows most of our laws are passed per the wishes of the elites, ignoring the wishes of the majority---on taxes, jobs, h/c, education, Wall St, guns, etc.
Will Clinton work for us, or elites? Restore norms of past generations in the equality equation? Tax and regulate corporations that now legally dominate our elections and exploiting the public?
In 1932 a big difference between Pres Hoover and FDR was that despite the Depression’s widespread disaster for millions of citizens, Hoover’s belief was that it was NOT the place of the federal govt to take strong action to alleviate their distress. Charity and local govts should try to help.
FDR knew it WAS precisely the fed govt’s job to take aggressive action to intervene in the economic disaster. He didn’t shrink from using govt to experiment, and used a new breed of people in his cabinet, like Harry Hopkins, etc. He didn’t shrink from Wall St and their allies in congress.
Mr. Kristof.....relate this to today.
5
Those are the sorts of issues we should be discussing, in depth and at length. The emails are a smokescreen.
1
Nick, you said it right when you said,"If deception were a sport,Trump would be the Olympic gold medalist."
And the irony of this is Trump knows he lies and is proud of it.
And his followers love it.
His supporters do not want to fact check his bizarre claims as long as he says it.
Trump said Mexico is sending Rapists and drug dealers to America, they believed it.
His rally goers thought he was right since that's what they wanted to believe as in their very narrow universe where they co-mingle with their own cohorts, they only talk trash about other people who're not like them like the Blacks, the Mexicans, and other foreigners who they think are taking away their jobs ( which is totally untrue ).
So it's no wonder that Trump could utter outright lies and get away with them since his supporters who hardly ever graduated from their high schools couldn't decipher the lies from the truth.
If Trump ever came to a Democratic rally or a Barney's rally where most of the listeners are much more qualified or better educated than Trump's supporters,he could never get away with those outlandish claims like he gets away from his uneducated or under educated followers.
First thing we'd have confronted him was, "Show us some proof that the Mexicans are sending Rapists or drugs in U.S. And if it is, How many ? Is it 1 or 2 or 500 ?"
You can bet Trump had no answers for that. He doesn't have to.
His illiterate supporters never asks him.
They just like someone who's as hateful as they're.
And the irony of this is Trump knows he lies and is proud of it.
And his followers love it.
His supporters do not want to fact check his bizarre claims as long as he says it.
Trump said Mexico is sending Rapists and drug dealers to America, they believed it.
His rally goers thought he was right since that's what they wanted to believe as in their very narrow universe where they co-mingle with their own cohorts, they only talk trash about other people who're not like them like the Blacks, the Mexicans, and other foreigners who they think are taking away their jobs ( which is totally untrue ).
So it's no wonder that Trump could utter outright lies and get away with them since his supporters who hardly ever graduated from their high schools couldn't decipher the lies from the truth.
If Trump ever came to a Democratic rally or a Barney's rally where most of the listeners are much more qualified or better educated than Trump's supporters,he could never get away with those outlandish claims like he gets away from his uneducated or under educated followers.
First thing we'd have confronted him was, "Show us some proof that the Mexicans are sending Rapists or drugs in U.S. And if it is, How many ? Is it 1 or 2 or 500 ?"
You can bet Trump had no answers for that. He doesn't have to.
His illiterate supporters never asks him.
They just like someone who's as hateful as they're.
6
The world according to Trump is whatever it is as he makes it up as he goes along. He's so much the showman and practiced con artist, snake oil salesman, that we are left to wonder is this all a spiel or does he believe all he says? The more he speaks, the greater the preponderance of the evidence suggests the latter. Of this be afraid, be very afraid.
Equally despised and certainly of very questionable moral character is Hillary Clinton. She exhibits a pure lust for power, which may not be quite as delusional as Donald, though who knows, really. It is likely she may well win the election if for no other reason than being the proverbial "lesser of the evils. How much lesser is the real question.
In the end, both are liars, and crooks, slightly or more greatly disturbed (but then I think one almost has to be to want to become President and put yourself in the most scrutinized "fishbowl" on the planet).
Such a system and such a pathetic choice this time around gives us. Meh.
Equally despised and certainly of very questionable moral character is Hillary Clinton. She exhibits a pure lust for power, which may not be quite as delusional as Donald, though who knows, really. It is likely she may well win the election if for no other reason than being the proverbial "lesser of the evils. How much lesser is the real question.
In the end, both are liars, and crooks, slightly or more greatly disturbed (but then I think one almost has to be to want to become President and put yourself in the most scrutinized "fishbowl" on the planet).
Such a system and such a pathetic choice this time around gives us. Meh.
1
I guess they're "fibs" but, like Karl Rove and others, Clinton clearly invested mightily in keeping her email communications secret when they were supposed to be public by law. Rove almost certainly acted to build up to the war with misinformation and coordinate things like the swift boaters' attack on Kerry and the fake memo seeding of CBS News's misinformation about Bush's service record while he worked for the administration and was supposed to be making all communications via government emails accessible to FOIA inquiries. His extensive use of a private email system was illegal.
I never thought I'd be voting for a Democrat who obviously did the same thing... Classified or unclassified.. seems to be quibbling. FYI charges or "exoneration" aside, it's distasteful and underhanded
I never thought I'd be voting for a Democrat who obviously did the same thing... Classified or unclassified.. seems to be quibbling. FYI charges or "exoneration" aside, it's distasteful and underhanded
2
The problem to begin with here, is Hillary is reviled by many, simply for who she is, while Trump knows how to play the media like a Stradivarius. And, all areas of the right-wing media continue to pile on the lies,
half-truths, fabrications, and exaggerations about her.
But, what Trump has yet to realize that "what goes around, comes around," and in the end, the real, irrefutable truth about Donald J. Trump, will come out.
It will be a very bitter pill to swallow for his followers, and the conservative media, who have, like the current Republican candidate, have always played fast and loose with the facts.
half-truths, fabrications, and exaggerations about her.
But, what Trump has yet to realize that "what goes around, comes around," and in the end, the real, irrefutable truth about Donald J. Trump, will come out.
It will be a very bitter pill to swallow for his followers, and the conservative media, who have, like the current Republican candidate, have always played fast and loose with the facts.
4
As an evangelical Christian, I HAVE been able to understand why many other evangelicals have been critical of Hillary Clinton in the area of honesty. However, I NEVER HAVE been able to understand why many other evangelicals have given Donald Trump a free pass in this area. It has been obvious to me that Trump's lies have not only equaled but have exceeded Hillary's lies.
This leads me to believe that many other evangelicals highly criticize Hillary for dishonesty to justify their personal dislike for her while giving Donald Trump a free pass simply because he is running on the Republican ticket instead of the Democratic ticket.
This leads me to believe that many other evangelicals highly criticize Hillary for dishonesty to justify their personal dislike for her while giving Donald Trump a free pass simply because he is running on the Republican ticket instead of the Democratic ticket.
14
Evangelicals have long been co-opted as an arm of the profoundly un-Christian right in this country - their dogma has much more to do with an often vicious political agenda than with traditional Christian teachings, and is often antithetical to anything Jesus taught. American Evangelicalism has become a heretical sect, and will be remembered as a scandal in the history of the faith. Why would you be surprised that they tolerate Trump? It's a "religion" in which liberals have replaced Lucifer as the source of evil, and any Republican candidate Trumps Jesus.
1
When I first heard Hillary say she'd been under enemy fire, I thought it was not only a lie, but a stupid lie. No way the US Military would send a civilian, let alone the first lady, into an active combat zone. More likely she would be evacuated.
I later figured it must be a false memory, brought on by trauma. It can happen to anyone. She had imagined her worse fear -- being under enemy fire.
Now when I hear that they had her in body armor and briefed her about sniper fire, it becomes more clear that she had conflated her fear of danger into a memory of danger. She was probably as relieved as anyone to see that clip of a little girl presenting her with flowers next to the landed plane.
I later figured it must be a false memory, brought on by trauma. It can happen to anyone. She had imagined her worse fear -- being under enemy fire.
Now when I hear that they had her in body armor and briefed her about sniper fire, it becomes more clear that she had conflated her fear of danger into a memory of danger. She was probably as relieved as anyone to see that clip of a little girl presenting her with flowers next to the landed plane.
9
Mr Kristof, please try to be a little objective. Does it hurt you to say anything negative about the Clintons?
Are you aware that they've made a number of deals, with foreign countries?
Russia- Iran-uranium deals?
Your headline, ie. Clintons Fibs vs Trumps Huge lies.' is comical in itself.
Does anyone with a brain ...but then you don't expect those folks to read this...
not see the fraud of your opening? Should I spell it out,... a fib is trivial(Hillary) and a huge lie (Trump) is really terrible. So taking that into account Hillary has done nothing wrong except jeopardize the country.
Though I could go further I'd better stop while I'm ahead.
If you want socialism, Hillary will get it for you.
Cheer Duke
Are you aware that they've made a number of deals, with foreign countries?
Russia- Iran-uranium deals?
Your headline, ie. Clintons Fibs vs Trumps Huge lies.' is comical in itself.
Does anyone with a brain ...but then you don't expect those folks to read this...
not see the fraud of your opening? Should I spell it out,... a fib is trivial(Hillary) and a huge lie (Trump) is really terrible. So taking that into account Hillary has done nothing wrong except jeopardize the country.
Though I could go further I'd better stop while I'm ahead.
If you want socialism, Hillary will get it for you.
Cheer Duke
1
This article is a lie. Trump is guilty at most of puffery and exaggeration. Hillary lies about matters of state in which she has been directly involved. Even Comey says she lied to the public about her emails though she tries to twist even his words around. Why can't she and her liberal supporters just admit the truth? As long as she denies and lies about her lies, the issue will not go away.
1
Wow, talk about rationalizing. What a stretch. Attempting to reduce Mrs. Clinton's decades-long pattern of industrial-strength lying and covering up to mere fibbing and fudging is insulting to the intelligence of anyone who doesn't have an "I'm With Her" bumper sticker, T-shirt or tattoo. The only way euphemisms serve the political discourse is to harden the polarization.
3
Trump is pathetic, but this article essentially gave Hillary a free ride. Kristof ignored all of Clinton's lies about Bill's "women" and her Arkansas real estate machinations. And to give the so-called "foundation" no mention at all is beyond belief. Even the foundation-checking websites that evaluate the quality of foundations have found it impossible to evaluate the Clinton entity as a charitable organization.
The reality is that we have two egregious liars, one who is both a liar and corrupt, and the second both crazy and irresponsible. How did the electorate get stuck with these two choices?
The reality is that we have two egregious liars, one who is both a liar and corrupt, and the second both crazy and irresponsible. How did the electorate get stuck with these two choices?
2
By making politics too juvenile for sane people.
If your readers Google Slate magazine April 28, 2016 and read the article The Quiet American by Franklin Foer they will discover chilling revelations about that principal adviser to The Donald. The ties to Russia? It's all there, folks, read, digest, then discard whatever Trump utters in the next 96 days.
Then, Nicholas, hire some sneaky types to go and check out the stairwells, hallways and back rooms of that 5th floor in the Trump Tower.
That slick shyster Mr. Ailes has got to have his fingers, mouth, whatever in this totally delusion campaign.
Once again through the heat and rain here on the Left Coast that parody of a politician is still demonstrating all the qualities of a psychopathic sociopath. How is your eyesight?
Yeah, I know: Judge not lest ye be judged. Cheers.
Then, Nicholas, hire some sneaky types to go and check out the stairwells, hallways and back rooms of that 5th floor in the Trump Tower.
That slick shyster Mr. Ailes has got to have his fingers, mouth, whatever in this totally delusion campaign.
Once again through the heat and rain here on the Left Coast that parody of a politician is still demonstrating all the qualities of a psychopathic sociopath. How is your eyesight?
Yeah, I know: Judge not lest ye be judged. Cheers.
Now how can we get Trump supporters to read, believe and care about all the points in this article?
3
Clearly not, pretty much by definition. We've got a mindless mob on our hands.
1
I really hate this tendency to turn every political statement into a black and white dichotomy of truth vs. lies. If any one of us had all our words recorded and examined by an enemy out to disparage us, our days would be full of ''lies.''
The difference between Ms. Clinton and Mr Trump is not to be determined either by a polygraph or a ''fact-checker.'' When Ms. Clinton speaks, she exhibits knowledge, good intentions, competence, and, yes, ambition. She often, in my opinion, sacrifices principles to pragmatism. And she errs on the side of self-interest. When Mr. Trump speaks, he exhibits the qualities of a con-artist. He improvises a string of political clichés and hyperbolae that don't even make sense, except perhaps as a comic parody of a Fox news commentator. If he were lying I would, in a weird way, think more of him, since he would be consciously pursuing a strategy. But he's only out to sell. If the truth worked, he would use it, though he likely wouldn't know he was doing so. Neither Ms. Clinton nor her Republican attackers are meticulous in their devotion to the truth; but Mr. Trump doesn't even aspire to truth. He aspires to publicity.
The difference between Ms. Clinton and Mr Trump is not to be determined either by a polygraph or a ''fact-checker.'' When Ms. Clinton speaks, she exhibits knowledge, good intentions, competence, and, yes, ambition. She often, in my opinion, sacrifices principles to pragmatism. And she errs on the side of self-interest. When Mr. Trump speaks, he exhibits the qualities of a con-artist. He improvises a string of political clichés and hyperbolae that don't even make sense, except perhaps as a comic parody of a Fox news commentator. If he were lying I would, in a weird way, think more of him, since he would be consciously pursuing a strategy. But he's only out to sell. If the truth worked, he would use it, though he likely wouldn't know he was doing so. Neither Ms. Clinton nor her Republican attackers are meticulous in their devotion to the truth; but Mr. Trump doesn't even aspire to truth. He aspires to publicity.
8
Politicians lie. Voters expect that.
But Hillary is in a class by herself. She is propped up by the mainstream media like the NYT and gushed about by "trusted" writers like yourself. She's lied about so many things over the years, to so many, that she really no longer has a shred of credibility. And she's done it in positions of power, when people died and were in danger, and in many capacities. The stink of her corruption really has become legendary.
She is the epitome of establishment politician, in all the negative connotations. She lies, and can't seem to stop "short circuiting."
Enough with the lies pandering to all the special interest groups and identity/victim classes.
Enough with the lies to the US about her role in the deaths in Benghazi.
Enough with the lies about Donald Trump.
Enough with the lies of her great "temperament." - she's a volatile monster.
Enough with the lies that she is popular - she had to steal the DNC nomination.
Enough with the lies that she'll improve this nation - she puts illegal aliens as one of her first priorities.
You're getting my drift here, aren't you Mr. Kristof? And stop trying to present your talking points you've received from your bosses are real news.
These ARE the opinion pages, aren't they?
But Hillary is in a class by herself. She is propped up by the mainstream media like the NYT and gushed about by "trusted" writers like yourself. She's lied about so many things over the years, to so many, that she really no longer has a shred of credibility. And she's done it in positions of power, when people died and were in danger, and in many capacities. The stink of her corruption really has become legendary.
She is the epitome of establishment politician, in all the negative connotations. She lies, and can't seem to stop "short circuiting."
Enough with the lies pandering to all the special interest groups and identity/victim classes.
Enough with the lies to the US about her role in the deaths in Benghazi.
Enough with the lies about Donald Trump.
Enough with the lies of her great "temperament." - she's a volatile monster.
Enough with the lies that she is popular - she had to steal the DNC nomination.
Enough with the lies that she'll improve this nation - she puts illegal aliens as one of her first priorities.
You're getting my drift here, aren't you Mr. Kristof? And stop trying to present your talking points you've received from your bosses are real news.
These ARE the opinion pages, aren't they?
4
You're just another liar yourself. The possibility of honesty does not exist in your mind.
2
That's not an argument, it's a fulminating rant made of hot air and histrionically shouted misinformation. Just letting you know that outside the Trump bubble, no one is inclined to obey you.
2
Four dead Americans and the pathological lying that went with them and to the families are "Fibs"? Where in God's name are you living--Hillary's delusional world?
She's unquestionably dangerous to anyone who comes near her. Her wake is replete with bodies (to include Bernie’s and several DNC Politburo members), not just those left in the desert of Libya. Whatever is it with New York Times writers, "reporters", and editorial board? Is it so hard to accept her monstrous behavior and malfeasance and face the reality that is Hillary Clinton?
If one thing can be said about the constant barrage of pounding negative stories, e.g., this one, in the Times about Trump, it is that the Editorial Board fears Trump more than the Comey "reckless", dead-men, pathologically delusional, extortionist Hillary.
Why they prefer unhinged Kim Jong-un behavior to Trump is still unanswered? Perhaps a pandering allegiance to its government uber-alles reader-base, to New York City's "progressive" Russian immigrant past, or just the need to keep things in Washington as corrupt as they've always been. Not sure.
But there is no question that it is a bias in favor of "for certain" future White House misdeeds--if her past in government "service" is any measure of our future, assuming she's elected, of course.
November is a lifetime away and Brexit is the model of what can happen days before the vote. Perhaps the Editorial Board's real fear and reason for the relentless propaganda.
She's unquestionably dangerous to anyone who comes near her. Her wake is replete with bodies (to include Bernie’s and several DNC Politburo members), not just those left in the desert of Libya. Whatever is it with New York Times writers, "reporters", and editorial board? Is it so hard to accept her monstrous behavior and malfeasance and face the reality that is Hillary Clinton?
If one thing can be said about the constant barrage of pounding negative stories, e.g., this one, in the Times about Trump, it is that the Editorial Board fears Trump more than the Comey "reckless", dead-men, pathologically delusional, extortionist Hillary.
Why they prefer unhinged Kim Jong-un behavior to Trump is still unanswered? Perhaps a pandering allegiance to its government uber-alles reader-base, to New York City's "progressive" Russian immigrant past, or just the need to keep things in Washington as corrupt as they've always been. Not sure.
But there is no question that it is a bias in favor of "for certain" future White House misdeeds--if her past in government "service" is any measure of our future, assuming she's elected, of course.
November is a lifetime away and Brexit is the model of what can happen days before the vote. Perhaps the Editorial Board's real fear and reason for the relentless propaganda.
6
I guess that overarching this honesty topic is The Big Lie. IF the people who work with you and the people who have known you all your life think especially-essentially that you are trustworthy and honest and loyal and tireless in working for the unfortunate, then RoveLuntzCo attack those your strengths with The Big Lie tactic.
As with the swiftboating of Kerry, you can not defend yourself ("I AM a hero"). It is a particularly pernicious tactic that when repeated relentlessly by every bullet-point spewing surrogate becomes accepted and repeated as gospel.
One likes to think that it is the very job of 'the media' to debunk the junk. But the surrogates are very skilled at being brazen or 'hardened in effrontery.' And after a tepid follow-up, 99% of hosts or interviewers just give up. They don't have a 3rd or 4th question to out-parry the lying guest. The surrogates are better trained in pitbull than the media folk.
Democrats, my people bless them, are Golden Retrievers. Attack is not in their DNA. They don't do feral well.
I wish 'the other media' would do *their* homework as well as this article has.
As with the swiftboating of Kerry, you can not defend yourself ("I AM a hero"). It is a particularly pernicious tactic that when repeated relentlessly by every bullet-point spewing surrogate becomes accepted and repeated as gospel.
One likes to think that it is the very job of 'the media' to debunk the junk. But the surrogates are very skilled at being brazen or 'hardened in effrontery.' And after a tepid follow-up, 99% of hosts or interviewers just give up. They don't have a 3rd or 4th question to out-parry the lying guest. The surrogates are better trained in pitbull than the media folk.
Democrats, my people bless them, are Golden Retrievers. Attack is not in their DNA. They don't do feral well.
I wish 'the other media' would do *their* homework as well as this article has.
11
So Hillary rigged the DNC and stole votes through voter suppression and 5 other methods in the Democratic primary in order to steal the Democratic primary nomination for President and you call that fibbing? I call that helping destroying democracy. She did not tell the truth to the FBI and that is fibbing?
Jill Stein for President 2016
http://www.jill2016.com/
Jill Stein for President 2016
http://www.jill2016.com/
5
You are bawling about staffer trial balloons that were never implemented.
1
The DNC were NOT her staff. They are supposed to be neutral between Democratic candidates. They were acting as Hillary's staffers and did go through on some of the ideas.
Democracy Lost: A Report on the Fatally Flawed 2016 Democratic Primaries
Link directly to the Election Justice Website:
Election Justice – Protecting your voice in Democracy! http://electionjustice.net/
Democracy Lost: A Report on the Fatally Flawed 2016 Democratic Primaries
Link directly to the Election Justice Website:
Election Justice – Protecting your voice in Democracy! http://electionjustice.net/
This is the best you can come up with to support a Clinton candidacy? Yes she is a liar but the other guy is a bigger liar?
5
You play the cards you're dealt.
Okay, so there is not factual equivilence, so why the perception? Is it simply that conservatives are wrong more often. It is a lack of vetting by Real Media? Is it that a Fox News is on the air telling lies 24/7 and lazy reporters then are parroting their dreek? Is it that lies feel right when he tells them?
5
The "Crooked Hillary" label is a red herring. The right-wing is terrified of the policy consequences that a Hillary presidency would entail. And given the options of arguing the merits of a given policy or simply painting the candidate as a liar (or crooked, or a coward, or a non-american...), well the right-wing is now reaping the fruits of what they have so carefully sown--Trump supporters don't want to hear policy discussion, they want to vent their self-righteous blather.
12
This is the "well regulated militia" of America the Stupid.
In the world of Trump and his followers, reality is whatever their leader wants it to be at any given moment. If it changes by the day or even by the hour, his cult members go right along with it, denying he ever said anything different. Big Brother would be proud.
6
Hillary made a Freudian slip yesterday and referred to Trump as her husband.
2
It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the obsessions with Hillary Clinton's veracity and with her alleged financial gains from her links with the banking industry and from relationships established by the Clinton Foundation are thinly veiled covers for profound misogyny.
10
This is an amazing column. Kristoff should be horrified that being an ordinary, average politician means that you lie repeatedly. Instead, he acts as if it a badge of honor that Clinton does not lie as much as Trump.
Don't you see the problem is that you in the chattering class expect politicians to lie a lot? That you accept this as normal? And can't you see why the argument that "Trump lies more often than Hillary" is not that compelling to many people?
The average person hates that politicians consider it business as usual to lie to the public. Once a candidate shows that she is a consistent liar, the fact her opponent lies more often doesn't give her moral superiority.
Don't you see the problem is that you in the chattering class expect politicians to lie a lot? That you accept this as normal? And can't you see why the argument that "Trump lies more often than Hillary" is not that compelling to many people?
The average person hates that politicians consider it business as usual to lie to the public. Once a candidate shows that she is a consistent liar, the fact her opponent lies more often doesn't give her moral superiority.
5
Correct. They both lie. Neither will be capable of delivering an address to the American people that will be believable. Given this fact, they will be unable to
function effectively as the leader of the "free world."
function effectively as the leader of the "free world."
1
The average person has one or two "line in the sand" issues by which they will or will not vote for a candidate ... the average politician manages to be on both sides of the line in the sand, rhetorically, or they would never be elected dog catcher, so the apparent "all politicians lie" trope is not really accurate ... all politicians prevaricate by necessity ... thus Clinton; who is most certainly a politician.
Trump is not a politician (dimly admirable ?) He is a sleazy real estate mogul with a history of bankrupt proceedings as a matter of business "technique" sporting a narcissistic personality disorder bordering on clinical. He has no history, until now, of commitment to public service. He has no admirers that I can think of. He worships the superficial trappings of wealth including just the simple metric of "I'm very rich". He has no observable modesty. And he lies incessantly and as a matter of course, to the extent that one wonders if he can't actually perceive the truth in a matter. His speeches are mostly rants ...
The ship of state AND the Republican party would almost certainly survive a Clinton presidency. With Trump both are at risk ...
Trump is not a politician (dimly admirable ?) He is a sleazy real estate mogul with a history of bankrupt proceedings as a matter of business "technique" sporting a narcissistic personality disorder bordering on clinical. He has no history, until now, of commitment to public service. He has no admirers that I can think of. He worships the superficial trappings of wealth including just the simple metric of "I'm very rich". He has no observable modesty. And he lies incessantly and as a matter of course, to the extent that one wonders if he can't actually perceive the truth in a matter. His speeches are mostly rants ...
The ship of state AND the Republican party would almost certainly survive a Clinton presidency. With Trump both are at risk ...
1
Voters expect politicians to tell them what they want to hear. Trump's fans see genius in gibberish.
1
It's just amazing that so many comments on this piece reflect exactly what the article is saying. We are beyond looking at this situation objectively. "300 million people in this country and we are forced to choose between two liars." "Hillary Clinton is a serial liar of maniacal proportions." Or Peggy Noonan's summary in her take down of Trump: “I end with a new word, at least new to me. A friend called it to my attention. It speaks of the moment we’re in. It is “kakistocracy,” from the Greek. It means government by the worst persons, by the least qualified or most unprincipled.” So in an article where she argues that Donald Trump may be insane, she mentions that both candidates are the worst, least qualified or most unprincipled. How can Clinton be consider to be the worst? Only in an insane world.
11
Neglect of Gresham's Law sure let the bad drive the good out of US politics.
I agree. Hillary rewrites history. Donald makes it up. He's sociopathic about it and it is becoming more and more obvious the more time we all spend with the 'real' Donald Trump. I'm a lifelong Republican vote who actually voted for the real Ronald Reagan and I will vote for Hillary Clinton this time around. Donald, you're fired!
5
I just don't understand why Secretary Clinton would lie in any case. I am voting for her and there are many things that she has done and stands for that I admire greatly. She is not perfect and my primary complaint is that she should not have supported the U.S. invasion of Iraq. But at the end of the day, she is, by far, the best qualified candidate to be president and I believe she will be a great one. However, I still don't understand why Secretary Clinton would find it necessary to lie, especially with all the immediate fact checking going on.
9
I love the well worn phrase "at the end of the day". Yes, at the end of the day,
when all the incorruptible people have gone to bed after an honest day's work,
Hillary and Donald will still be up telling lies to those of us still willing to listen.
when all the incorruptible people have gone to bed after an honest day's work,
Hillary and Donald will still be up telling lies to those of us still willing to listen.
Mcg
Don't know why you ask this question.
Power corrupts. Politicians lie because it suits their purposes and because they think they can get away with it. Often, they do.
It makes no sense for us to lie in our personal lives, yet we do.
Politicians at this level have no personal lives. We've seen to that.
Don't know why you ask this question.
Power corrupts. Politicians lie because it suits their purposes and because they think they can get away with it. Often, they do.
It makes no sense for us to lie in our personal lives, yet we do.
Politicians at this level have no personal lives. We've seen to that.
Hillary supported keeping the pressure on Iraq to comply with the UN weapons inspectors who were finding none of the WMDs the war was supposed to be about.
1
a poor first impression is hard to get over.
for the nation i believe it was 60 minutes that first gave us the gov bill clinton and his wife. at some point she said she was not the kind of mom that baked cookies. right then that was fodder for the spin of the next first lady. this woman has been more probed prodded pushed inspected under the microscope more then anyone ever. i mean constant in the news and government she has never left the nations thoughts. her faults. heck our faults. i cant throw any stones myself how about you that guy socrates says r for reverse. me dont be a chump dump trump
for the nation i believe it was 60 minutes that first gave us the gov bill clinton and his wife. at some point she said she was not the kind of mom that baked cookies. right then that was fodder for the spin of the next first lady. this woman has been more probed prodded pushed inspected under the microscope more then anyone ever. i mean constant in the news and government she has never left the nations thoughts. her faults. heck our faults. i cant throw any stones myself how about you that guy socrates says r for reverse. me dont be a chump dump trump
3
When a nation feeds the population with lies, the rest goes own exactly the same. Very simple, all wars are based on lies. Our government say to the public one thing and do another thing very different. I can list so many lies from our leaders,. The one that make me think about is the despectable attitude of Kinsinger in 1973, with Chile. The lies never came clear to many americans. He should be in prison with his gang for good, but our government continues to praise him like he's nice human being. Many politicians, include Hillary use him for advisor. They teach lies to americans.
4
The US indulges the world's biggest lie: that nature has an immortal human personality.
Are we going to parse dishonesty now? There is no way to put a good face on it: Hillary is dishonest and not trustworthy, period, and people know it. Trump is another story all together, but it does no one any good to act as if honesty can be judged on a relative basis; it can't. Neither one of them deserves to be President and the more people that accept that, the better off we'll be. There are alternatives, let's get busy making them work.
7
You cannot name anyone. You have driven decent people entirely out of politics.
1
Hillary does those uncomfortable, wiggle out of the truth things that all politicians do at times. Her email server was a mistake, her Wall Street paid speeches were not smart. The right wing has done a great job of making everything a felony, and they know that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe most anything.
Now Trump is a different animal. If he was a ten year old, a teacher might refer him to the counselor or perhaps Social Services. It would be interesting to hook him up to a lie detector, to see if he really believes his lies as they roll out of his mouth.
He boldly tells us that the NFL sent him a letter about the debates.
He is sure he saw pallets of money removed from a plane.
He knows that thousands of Muslims in NJ celebrated on 9-11.
He and Putin either are or are not good friends.
What serves his purpose at the time? What do you want to hear?
He overwhelms people with falsehoods. The press can't/don't deal with them. His supporters don't care. Many of us are shocked/dismayed. The rest of the world (with the exception of Putin) are terrified.
His current poll numbers are finally indicating that it's not working for him anymore. Maybe he can finally see that counselor that he missed in the 4th grade.
Now Trump is a different animal. If he was a ten year old, a teacher might refer him to the counselor or perhaps Social Services. It would be interesting to hook him up to a lie detector, to see if he really believes his lies as they roll out of his mouth.
He boldly tells us that the NFL sent him a letter about the debates.
He is sure he saw pallets of money removed from a plane.
He knows that thousands of Muslims in NJ celebrated on 9-11.
He and Putin either are or are not good friends.
What serves his purpose at the time? What do you want to hear?
He overwhelms people with falsehoods. The press can't/don't deal with them. His supporters don't care. Many of us are shocked/dismayed. The rest of the world (with the exception of Putin) are terrified.
His current poll numbers are finally indicating that it's not working for him anymore. Maybe he can finally see that counselor that he missed in the 4th grade.
355
There's is always an untellable story behind the story. Republicans specialize in exploiting rumors and innuendo to create uncertainty in the minds of the chumps who vote for them.
In many, if not all cases, the untold story is not told because it would jeopardize national security. Any Democrat living under a GOP dominated Government would be nuts to use a government server for email. For the GOP, it's ethics (aka political correctness) be damned, national security is fair game as a tool to be used to exploit the electorate.
If Hillary was uttering any semblance of the garbage that comes out of the typical GOP politicians mouth, she'd be running away from her words for an eternity.
In many, if not all cases, the untold story is not told because it would jeopardize national security. Any Democrat living under a GOP dominated Government would be nuts to use a government server for email. For the GOP, it's ethics (aka political correctness) be damned, national security is fair game as a tool to be used to exploit the electorate.
If Hillary was uttering any semblance of the garbage that comes out of the typical GOP politicians mouth, she'd be running away from her words for an eternity.
2
Hillary Clinton has been in the glaring public eye for more than a generation. She is a human being with flaws--as we all are. Yet she is an incredibly talented, gifted public servant. This is a weak editorial with a most unfortunate title--equating Clinton & Trump but only differentiating in degrees. Benghazi was not the only time deaths occurred in such circumstances. My husband is a retired US diplomat. He succeeded to a post where his predecessor had been murdered. The man was a dear friend of my husband's. Risk "comes with the job" in certain places in the world. To compare the intelligence and service of HRC to Trump is beyond ludicrous-- like a PHD expert to a child in kindergarten who has "anger managment problems."
15
The Republicans have no respect at all for real courage. The are just an angry mob of fools.
What I don't get is this: Every cub reporter asks Ms. Clinton about her emails as if they are about to become the next Katie Couric and lay Ms. Clinton low with some major revelation, asking the question that launches a star career in journalism. What is the worst possible case about these emails? Did they expect to find her colluding with ISIS on the next attack? Do they expect to find she spent the night in bed with General Petraeus the night of Benghazi? I mean, why are we still listening to these newshounds asking these particular questions?
14
That poor poor cherry tree!
Put that axe and that chain saw and especially that blind unbridled power to order such a deed of horror down!
To paraphrase German singer-songwriter Alexandra: "My friend the tree is dead. She died in all the tears I shed!"
All her life (she died in 2013) the favorite taste of my mother was cherry.
Concentrated cherry juice is strongly recommended by natural medicine experts to alleviate the pain of rheumatoid arthritis, from which she suffered severely for the last 20 years of her life.
I only found out about this after she died,
That´s how good the industry that wants to earn a fortune from expensive patented medicines and treatments pushes knowledge like this into a shadow existence: the huge lying machinery of Big Pharma succeeded in shielding this potential alley of (beautiful cherry tree) healing from my mother´s awareness.
And it´s my problem with Hillary. Since among those in Washington beholden to Big Chem Unbridled, a prominent one is Hillary Clinton.
Posing as a champion of the people, doling out favors and fortunes to the Corporatocracy in the backrooms.
Big lie to live as a politician. Yuge.
And though I prefer Clinton over Trump like I prefer a cherry tree that survived the windstorms over a chain saw dump haunted by the stunning novelty of a permanent tornado, I still don´t see that much difference in their capability or practice to lie.
I see (mostly) clever lying versus dimwit lying, both trained in lifelong experience.
Put that axe and that chain saw and especially that blind unbridled power to order such a deed of horror down!
To paraphrase German singer-songwriter Alexandra: "My friend the tree is dead. She died in all the tears I shed!"
All her life (she died in 2013) the favorite taste of my mother was cherry.
Concentrated cherry juice is strongly recommended by natural medicine experts to alleviate the pain of rheumatoid arthritis, from which she suffered severely for the last 20 years of her life.
I only found out about this after she died,
That´s how good the industry that wants to earn a fortune from expensive patented medicines and treatments pushes knowledge like this into a shadow existence: the huge lying machinery of Big Pharma succeeded in shielding this potential alley of (beautiful cherry tree) healing from my mother´s awareness.
And it´s my problem with Hillary. Since among those in Washington beholden to Big Chem Unbridled, a prominent one is Hillary Clinton.
Posing as a champion of the people, doling out favors and fortunes to the Corporatocracy in the backrooms.
Big lie to live as a politician. Yuge.
And though I prefer Clinton over Trump like I prefer a cherry tree that survived the windstorms over a chain saw dump haunted by the stunning novelty of a permanent tornado, I still don´t see that much difference in their capability or practice to lie.
I see (mostly) clever lying versus dimwit lying, both trained in lifelong experience.
4
At this point the DJT campaign is like an inside-out traveling circus. Where the barker is inside. And the audience is the real act that keeps it going.
The DJT campaign is also like a weird cult. Except the cult leader takes every cue from his frenzied followers.
Yes, we need to make sure DJT never gets near the presidency. But the real problem, in my view, is what to do about the circus act. The frenzied followers. The folks drunk on rage, ready to form crazed lynch mobs.
I firmly believe the sane majority of the electorate will eventually conclude that Secretary Clinton has the measured, deliberate, experienced temperament to manage the executive responsibilities of the presidency. While her opponent must be rejected and sent home - hopefully to receive whatever psychiatric treatment (or home confinement) is possible for his family to arrange. (And historians have been given a gold-mine in DJT to keep them busy for centuries.)
The number, type, manner, reason or unreason of "lies" (told or untold) is so inconsequential here. It's our nation's future, its population's welfare, and it's national security we should be focused on.
The political right, however, wants to distract us. To get us to focus on lies.
Their focus IS a lie!
Forget lying. Leave the Lunatic to the dustbin of history. Focus on Sanity, a Woman of uncommon grit, ability, experience and yes, imperfection. We are all imperfect. But how many of us deserve a Purple Heart? She does!
The DJT campaign is also like a weird cult. Except the cult leader takes every cue from his frenzied followers.
Yes, we need to make sure DJT never gets near the presidency. But the real problem, in my view, is what to do about the circus act. The frenzied followers. The folks drunk on rage, ready to form crazed lynch mobs.
I firmly believe the sane majority of the electorate will eventually conclude that Secretary Clinton has the measured, deliberate, experienced temperament to manage the executive responsibilities of the presidency. While her opponent must be rejected and sent home - hopefully to receive whatever psychiatric treatment (or home confinement) is possible for his family to arrange. (And historians have been given a gold-mine in DJT to keep them busy for centuries.)
The number, type, manner, reason or unreason of "lies" (told or untold) is so inconsequential here. It's our nation's future, its population's welfare, and it's national security we should be focused on.
The political right, however, wants to distract us. To get us to focus on lies.
Their focus IS a lie!
Forget lying. Leave the Lunatic to the dustbin of history. Focus on Sanity, a Woman of uncommon grit, ability, experience and yes, imperfection. We are all imperfect. But how many of us deserve a Purple Heart? She does!
6
Why did I say a Purple Heart? Thevrightbwing declared war on her long ago. She's been under fire almost constantly. She's stood her ground. Continued to move forward. Despite battle wounds, she's never given up. Won a battle for the Senate. Gracefully accepted defeat to Barack Obama. Shone as Secretary of State. All while being pilloried by the political right. Now she's facing the ultimate - a man who's declared an enemy, the devil. A man who is insane and dangerous and can't see that. A man bent on destroying her if he could.
But she soldiers on.
But she soldiers on.
2
The piece would've been a lot better had it offered an analysis of types of lies Clinton and Trump tell, and of their likely motives.
Trump seems to often lie because of a pathological need for attention and approval, a need to be admired and envied. Trump apologists would doubtless point out that everyone wants those things, and although I don't think that that's literally true, I admit that most people are that way, but again, with Trump, it's pathological, so he does it compulsively, and that compulsiveness causes him to tell lies that are easily detected and exposed.
But still, he's like the 22-year-old virgin who lies, again and again, to his 12-year-old brother about all the women he has seduced and all the exciting adventures he's had. The only real difference with Trump is that he does it to our entire nation, and well, he really has slept with a lot of beautiful women, too.
But the underlying compulsion is the same, the need to compensate for a deep-seated feeling of inadequacy.
And is that the kind of man we want as our president?
Trump seems to often lie because of a pathological need for attention and approval, a need to be admired and envied. Trump apologists would doubtless point out that everyone wants those things, and although I don't think that that's literally true, I admit that most people are that way, but again, with Trump, it's pathological, so he does it compulsively, and that compulsiveness causes him to tell lies that are easily detected and exposed.
But still, he's like the 22-year-old virgin who lies, again and again, to his 12-year-old brother about all the women he has seduced and all the exciting adventures he's had. The only real difference with Trump is that he does it to our entire nation, and well, he really has slept with a lot of beautiful women, too.
But the underlying compulsion is the same, the need to compensate for a deep-seated feeling of inadequacy.
And is that the kind of man we want as our president?
5
Please stop feeding this narrative that FBI Director Comey contradicted Hillary Clinton's assertions. If the NYT would take an honest look at the facts of the case, you would see that Clinton has been honest about her emails.
If anyone is "the champ of prevarication," it's Comey.
I saw his testimony before the House committee, and it was disingenuously cute to the point of being deceitful.
Comey did not lay out the facts well, and he gave incomplete answers to the committee members, who failed to ask some very obvious follow-up questions.
Comey said only three emails out of 33,000 had some paragraphs that were marked with a "C" in parentheses. He did not say where in the email chains those incompletely designated paragraphs were located, nor who had inserted those paragraphs into the conversation. One committee member noted that the emails in question did not have the required headers or other markings for classified information, and another raised the valid issue of whether the specific paragraphs had been declassified.
So, it's quite reasonable to say that Hillary was being truthful when she said she did not send classified information from her private email account.
If anyone is "the champ of prevarication," it's Comey.
I saw his testimony before the House committee, and it was disingenuously cute to the point of being deceitful.
Comey did not lay out the facts well, and he gave incomplete answers to the committee members, who failed to ask some very obvious follow-up questions.
Comey said only three emails out of 33,000 had some paragraphs that were marked with a "C" in parentheses. He did not say where in the email chains those incompletely designated paragraphs were located, nor who had inserted those paragraphs into the conversation. One committee member noted that the emails in question did not have the required headers or other markings for classified information, and another raised the valid issue of whether the specific paragraphs had been declassified.
So, it's quite reasonable to say that Hillary was being truthful when she said she did not send classified information from her private email account.
8
Mr. Trump's unsuitability for the presidency is too long to describe. Moreover, what would be the point? His deficiencies are well known at this juncture, and I have neither the time nor the patience to regurgitate the list here. The one place where I would not give Secretary Clinton the easy pass afforded her by this article is that some of her most egregious lies go to a time when she held the office of Secretary of State. Trump's lies as a candidate are those of someone not yet in an official capacity of public trust. Secretary Clinton gets no such pass.
2
FBI director Comey said "We have no basis to conclude she lied to the FBI." Sounds like he didn't think she lied. He also said that it was "reasonable" for someone to conclude as Hillary did that nothing in the emails was classified since they were either not marked or improperly marked. When she said there was nothing classified in the emails she was saying what she believed to be true.
The FBI got to second guess what Hillary and the State Department thought was OK. The FBI considered in 110 or so out of thousands of emails there were references to topics that were classified (as distinct from properly marked classified documents of which there were none).
The FBI got to second guess what Hillary and the State Department thought was OK. The FBI considered in 110 or so out of thousands of emails there were references to topics that were classified (as distinct from properly marked classified documents of which there were none).
10
The angry, uninformed 35-39% Trump supporters are going to "believe" whatever they want to believe. The will "believe" Mexico is paying for a wall. They will "believe" that Trump "can't" release his tax returns because they are under audit. They will "believe" that Trump saw hundreds of Muslims cheering in NJ on September 11. They might actually "believe" Trump has $10 BILLION DOLLARS!!!! But what is really, truly frightening is that there just may be enough of us in the reality-based world that buy just enough of the nonsense mindlessly reiterated about Hillary Clinton (primarily invented and funded by Karl Rove) that we just maybe end up with a devastating Trump Presidency that does incalculable damage to this nation and perhaps the world.
THAT is the real madness we face. Believe it.
THAT is the real madness we face. Believe it.
5
I guess it follows that the 30% of Clinton supporters who believe she is honest will continue to believe what they want to believe.
And I guess the 20% of Clinton followers who don't think she is honest and will still vote for her don't mind having a liar for president.
And I guess the 20% of Clinton followers who don't think she is honest and will still vote for her don't mind having a liar for president.
More "lesser-of-two-evilism"...when is This country going to wake up?
5
You simply cannot put a natural loser and a total casting error...(Hillary) at the top and at the same time put Trump at the lowest level you can...things are not that black or that white.No,Trump is not that horrible and Hillary is not top notch...and I am not a Trump supporter.The more you paint Trump as a devilish guy more supporters he is getting every single day...this is mad when we see the NYT and other media...it seems a combat between forces from heaven and forces from hell...it's insane.Your lack of vision is doing a great service for Trump and company...
1
There is no "painting" in this column. There are only facts.
In the U.S, a noticeably psychologically disturbed and emotionally disturbed man can run for president, and it is up to us, the American people, to decide whether or not he will win the election, become our president, and thereon endanger our well being.
8
I think Kristof has this precisely backwards. They both confabulate but one confabulates about non-sense and the other confabulates about things that effect us directly.
I don't care how many rooms Trump's mansion has nor if he saw anyone celebrating on 9/11. On the other hand, when he promised New Yorkers he would carry out something on time and under budget he in fact did it. And when he says he will rip up bad trade deals, reduce guest worker programs, not touch Social Security and Medicare, and crack down on illegal immigration I believe him.
Clinton also lies about not so important things - her e-mail server and being shot at as Secretary of State are easy examples. But more worrisome she lies about very big things. She promised Upstate New York 200,000 new jobs but failed to deliver. We actually lost jobs, and to those of us from Upstate that really matters. . She told us the DNC was neutral, until hacked e-mails showed that was a lie.
Presently she is telling us she is against new trade deals and the TPP, even though she has supported NAFTA, China in the WTO and called the TPP the "gold standard" in the past. Even her dear friend Terrie McAullife says she will in fact support the TPP once in office. Clinton is almost certainly lying about her true feelings towards the TPP.
Lying about policy and what actual things you will do once elected president is a much bigger deal than lying about how many rooms your home has.
I don't care how many rooms Trump's mansion has nor if he saw anyone celebrating on 9/11. On the other hand, when he promised New Yorkers he would carry out something on time and under budget he in fact did it. And when he says he will rip up bad trade deals, reduce guest worker programs, not touch Social Security and Medicare, and crack down on illegal immigration I believe him.
Clinton also lies about not so important things - her e-mail server and being shot at as Secretary of State are easy examples. But more worrisome she lies about very big things. She promised Upstate New York 200,000 new jobs but failed to deliver. We actually lost jobs, and to those of us from Upstate that really matters. . She told us the DNC was neutral, until hacked e-mails showed that was a lie.
Presently she is telling us she is against new trade deals and the TPP, even though she has supported NAFTA, China in the WTO and called the TPP the "gold standard" in the past. Even her dear friend Terrie McAullife says she will in fact support the TPP once in office. Clinton is almost certainly lying about her true feelings towards the TPP.
Lying about policy and what actual things you will do once elected president is a much bigger deal than lying about how many rooms your home has.
35
Trump concoctions about policy are preposterous lies. No wall will ever be build. And if a few bricks are laid and cemented, not a single peso will be paid for by Mexicans.
What is more important is his policy pronouncements in which he has shown some consistency, namely guns, NATO and climate change. If anything threatens our bodies, lives and belongings more in the very near term (now every day @ 30,000 per year), medium term (in the first years of a Trump term), and longer term (from hear to eternity), it is these three matters, respectively.
The most troublesome part of this piece is not the % of minor vs. major fibs, but what Kristof mentions about the pace and timeframe in which direct contradictions take place. When I think of the threats of Trump’s mercurial and childish bombasts and tirades to international stability, our economy and the financial markets, it is way beyond worrisome.
You'll problem counter with HRC's evolved change in position on TPP. Sorry, she handled it a measured manner and only after new facts about the consequences came to light, and yes in the context of shifting political winds, which is an integral part of political decision-making.
As one independent, Michael Bloomberg has stated, Trump is a con man. As another independent, Mike Morrell, has forcefully warned us, Trump is a real threat to our national security.
What is more important is his policy pronouncements in which he has shown some consistency, namely guns, NATO and climate change. If anything threatens our bodies, lives and belongings more in the very near term (now every day @ 30,000 per year), medium term (in the first years of a Trump term), and longer term (from hear to eternity), it is these three matters, respectively.
The most troublesome part of this piece is not the % of minor vs. major fibs, but what Kristof mentions about the pace and timeframe in which direct contradictions take place. When I think of the threats of Trump’s mercurial and childish bombasts and tirades to international stability, our economy and the financial markets, it is way beyond worrisome.
You'll problem counter with HRC's evolved change in position on TPP. Sorry, she handled it a measured manner and only after new facts about the consequences came to light, and yes in the context of shifting political winds, which is an integral part of political decision-making.
As one independent, Michael Bloomberg has stated, Trump is a con man. As another independent, Mike Morrell, has forcefully warned us, Trump is a real threat to our national security.
6
I have two thoughts for you about Mr. Trump: the wall that Mexico will pay for and deporting 11,000,000 immigrants. Are those two intended Trump policies - preposterous by any measure, impossible to carry out - enough policy lies for you?
3
OH, Please!
4
Nick, thanks for thoroughly documenting what many of us have already noted episodically, that Trump simply cannot be believed, and even less so the more he intones, "Believe me!"
Unfortunately, most of his supporters at this point don't seem to care how untruthful Trump is, only how contemptibly untruthful Secretary Clinton is, which seems self-evident to them regardless of your careful reporting. And I know it has been said many times, but it is truly scary how many millions of Americans seem to agree with this viewpoint.
Even if, as seems likely, Clinton wins the election, the demons appear to have emerged from the shadows and may never go quietly back into them. So, whatever Trump does in his likely defeat, there is also likely to be someone looking to replace him with a sizable following ready in waiting.
Perhaps the best outcome, aside from Trump losing, is for politicians to wake up and think seriously about being more truthful than ever to avoid facing another Trump down the line who might be more successful.
Unfortunately, most of his supporters at this point don't seem to care how untruthful Trump is, only how contemptibly untruthful Secretary Clinton is, which seems self-evident to them regardless of your careful reporting. And I know it has been said many times, but it is truly scary how many millions of Americans seem to agree with this viewpoint.
Even if, as seems likely, Clinton wins the election, the demons appear to have emerged from the shadows and may never go quietly back into them. So, whatever Trump does in his likely defeat, there is also likely to be someone looking to replace him with a sizable following ready in waiting.
Perhaps the best outcome, aside from Trump losing, is for politicians to wake up and think seriously about being more truthful than ever to avoid facing another Trump down the line who might be more successful.
89
As my daddy use to say "never believe anyone who says 'believe me' and never trust anyone who says 'you can trust me'.
3
Trump's legacy may well be the fact that he blew up the GOP smoke machine, eliminated the "puppet master" model of governance, and gave America a chance to return to a model of governance "..of, for, and by the people..." rather than the corporations.
Either way, blowing an effigy of himself up in the process will only make him a few more billion....and establish the Trump label as a political rather than just a business label. Like it or not, negative advertising works!
Either way, blowing an effigy of himself up in the process will only make him a few more billion....and establish the Trump label as a political rather than just a business label. Like it or not, negative advertising works!
Even before Trump came on the scene the right-wing media had been demonizing Hillary (as well as Obama and others). That point of view has become so deeply embedded on the right that it will take a lot of work to change it. They are used to dismissing everything they hear from "the liberal media," and listening only to each other.
8
Nick, please stop. Hillary lies are not as egregious as Trump's lies, but they are lies nonetheless. Calling them "Fibs" is ridiculous.
One of the biggiest problems on both sides is the inability to admit fault of any kind for one's candidate while denying the possibliltiy that the other candidate has any redeeming qualities at all. This mindset really cheapens the whole process and reduces cfredibility on both sides.
I'm going to vote for Hillary, of course. It's the only sane thing to do. But I readily admit that she is a flawed in candidate in many ways. She doesn't fib - she lies, like the rest of them.
One of the biggiest problems on both sides is the inability to admit fault of any kind for one's candidate while denying the possibliltiy that the other candidate has any redeeming qualities at all. This mindset really cheapens the whole process and reduces cfredibility on both sides.
I'm going to vote for Hillary, of course. It's the only sane thing to do. But I readily admit that she is a flawed in candidate in many ways. She doesn't fib - she lies, like the rest of them.
5
Of course, there is no comparison between Hillary Clinton and Trump. As we tell our children - do not lie, lying is wrong. True. But honestly, give me one Politician who has not fibbed or stretched the truth. None! Hillary is a thoroughbred Politician and her fibs are mainly the kind where truths are stretched. Not admirable, I agree. But what about Trump? He is 'n' standard deviations beyond the bell curve of lies. Only his bizarre, ignoramus supporters sees this demagogue as paragon of truth, lacking hypocrisy who says it as it is not, not anywhere near even the shadow of truth.
11
Do you not tell your children that fibbing is wrong as well?
So what you are saying is we have gotten accustomed to politicians lying (or fibbing) and we should be ok with it? Is there any wonder that most Americans have become fed up with the establishment?
So what you are saying is we have gotten accustomed to politicians lying (or fibbing) and we should be ok with it? Is there any wonder that most Americans have become fed up with the establishment?
300 million people in this country and we are forced to choose between two liars.
Meanwhile the most honest politician of my lifetime sits on the sideline because the oligarchs don't like him.
Kind of sad if you ask me.
Meanwhile the most honest politician of my lifetime sits on the sideline because the oligarchs don't like him.
Kind of sad if you ask me.
4
Most folks here can certainly imagine what would have surfaced had the same level of scrutiny been applied to just about anyone in the current GOP.
I find Bill Maher to be a bit too full of himself to be able to watch his show, but he was the only journalist insightful enough to ask Julian Assange the question all news outlets should be asking, essentially, how can Wikileaks claim any sort of moral high ground if they play into one-sided political attacks? It seems to me that Julian needs to rethink his moral responsibility with the "weapon" he wields.
How is he to know that what he got fed might be tainted in a way that it could influence the US elections only to be discredited a few weeks or months down the road? With all this "lying" nonsense going around, the DNC needs to get proactive about addressing such a possibility.
I find Bill Maher to be a bit too full of himself to be able to watch his show, but he was the only journalist insightful enough to ask Julian Assange the question all news outlets should be asking, essentially, how can Wikileaks claim any sort of moral high ground if they play into one-sided political attacks? It seems to me that Julian needs to rethink his moral responsibility with the "weapon" he wields.
How is he to know that what he got fed might be tainted in a way that it could influence the US elections only to be discredited a few weeks or months down the road? With all this "lying" nonsense going around, the DNC needs to get proactive about addressing such a possibility.
4
Maher isn't a journalist.
1
Despicable Donald is a veritable pack of lies. He lies more in a single conversation than Hillary has in a long career.
6
Thank you for this article. It would seem to be so obvious that it would not need saying, and yet the media continue to report Trump's accusations of "lying crooked hillary", with very little refutation.
7
The ignorance in this comments section is staggering. Reminds of the famous quote from the 1972 Election where Pauline Kael says "How did Nixon win, I don't know one person who voted for him." Hillary Clinton is a serial liar of maniacal proportions. Nobody should offer the narrative she "fibs" harmlessly. The woman has been caught red handed absolutely deviously lying over, over, over and over again. It literally doesn't stop. Hands down the most dishonest candidate to pursue the presidency. The press has been covering for this woman for years. Where are the questions about the shaky Clinton Foundation money trails? (crickets). Lying about Benghazi with the ridiculous video claim public and then separately directly to the victims families. Just the other day, she implied the victims families were "confused" about what she said to them. Horrible woman, pathetic the Dems couldn't offer something better. As for Trump, he is not a pathological liar anywhere near the degree of a Hillary Clinton. Is he an exaggerator, perhaps... definitely seems to shoot from the hip with a fair dose of sarcasm and "off the cuff" type of commenting. Wouldn't characterize that as "lying" however.
1
"The ignorance in this comments section is staggering. " GFollowed by the most ignorant comment in the section. Mr. Kristol described the commenter in his article. .
Brett gives us lots of vague generalities, and pure opinion with no knowledge to back it.
I am amazed that Mr. Delray Beach is an expert on Libya. Or at least assumed himself to be. But I would be money he cant find Libya on a map.
"Where are the questions about the shaky Clinton Foundation money trails? " IN the right wing propaganda sites is where you find the kindergarten level questions you seem to be powered by.
Brett gives us lots of vague generalities, and pure opinion with no knowledge to back it.
I am amazed that Mr. Delray Beach is an expert on Libya. Or at least assumed himself to be. But I would be money he cant find Libya on a map.
"Where are the questions about the shaky Clinton Foundation money trails? " IN the right wing propaganda sites is where you find the kindergarten level questions you seem to be powered by.
3
"Trump, he is not a pathological liar anywhere near the degree of a Hillary Clinton. Is he an exaggerator, perhaps..." Wow Trump supporters now need to lie to themselves to convince the voices in their head that Trump don't lie. Maybe like attracts like - and crazy attracts crazy. No wonder Trump has fans and Hannity has an audience. In every possible way all parties are disconnected from reality.
3
I disagree entirely! First, realize that ALL politicians lie, fib, tell half truths, and make misleading statements. They always have. As far as Benghazi is concerned, our tax dollars (in the millions) were used to fund something like 9 investigations on Benghazi. Not one concluded that she was negligent or criminal in her actions. Could some things have been done differently? Yes. But, that would include the fact that our extreme right wing republican representatives in the congress FAILED to provide sufficient funding to KEEP our diplomats safe. Most of what you hear about this is at best a half truth, if not an out right lie!
HRC is definitely NOT a "serial liar of maniacal proportions!" I do not understand people who say these things and then totally ignore Trump's lies. He has lied more in the past year than HRC has in her entire public lifetime! Trump is a pathological liar. He knows Putin well. Oh, I've never met him. I was against the Iraq war from the start even though video exists to the contrary. He says whatever he thinks will be most adventageous at the time and doesn't care if he is caught lying because any media coverage is positive according to him. If you truly believe HRC lies more than Trump, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to show you!
HRC is definitely NOT a "serial liar of maniacal proportions!" I do not understand people who say these things and then totally ignore Trump's lies. He has lied more in the past year than HRC has in her entire public lifetime! Trump is a pathological liar. He knows Putin well. Oh, I've never met him. I was against the Iraq war from the start even though video exists to the contrary. He says whatever he thinks will be most adventageous at the time and doesn't care if he is caught lying because any media coverage is positive according to him. If you truly believe HRC lies more than Trump, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to show you!
2
In short, "there's no comparison". She's no liar; he's a fraud.
4
The Don may blow his horn, blather, bluster & bend facts, but when he starts threatening first-strike nukes in the Mideast he might not be bluffing.
6
The header turns my stomach. Fibs? The movie that spurred Benghazi was a fib? Then denouncing she told the parents that was a fib? Running under fire on a tarmac? NOT pushing NAFTA when she worked her butt off with Bill? Not supporting TTP when she is holding back her emails about it until after the election? How far back must we go? Take a hike Nick.
4
Nick,
Older folks remember the cattle deal that netted her $100K on a $1000 dollar investment in weeks. Or the file missing from the Rose Law Firm that magically appeared on a desk in the White House. Or the bankrupted Savings and Loan that cost the taxpayers $73 million to bail out because of the White Water land deal she was involved in. Or Travelgate where she denied complicity in firing the staff there and throwing the business to buddies.
She could have gone to work for the mob replacing the "Teflon Don" John Gotti she is so slippery.
Worse is her behavior towards all the women her husband had sex with stomping them down to cover her husband's political chances and her own.
Have you forgotten how many of us were there and are still alive to remember?
Older folks remember the cattle deal that netted her $100K on a $1000 dollar investment in weeks. Or the file missing from the Rose Law Firm that magically appeared on a desk in the White House. Or the bankrupted Savings and Loan that cost the taxpayers $73 million to bail out because of the White Water land deal she was involved in. Or Travelgate where she denied complicity in firing the staff there and throwing the business to buddies.
She could have gone to work for the mob replacing the "Teflon Don" John Gotti she is so slippery.
Worse is her behavior towards all the women her husband had sex with stomping them down to cover her husband's political chances and her own.
Have you forgotten how many of us were there and are still alive to remember?
2
You need to retread the article. Not only that, but also read what actually has been found out regarding Benghazi.
2
I don't claim to be an expert, like Mr. Kristof, on the gravity of particular lies, I note that Hillary lied about her official duties as SOS whereas Trump lied, if he did lie, about other stuff which I think is a bit less serious. Hillary has made it clear that she will lie to us while President, if necessary to protect herself, whereas the jury is still out on Trump. And what I think is perhaps even more important, Hillary has proven to herself and the rest of us that she can get away with it because the NYT and others in the press don't particularly care whether she lies or not, whereas it is rather clear to us and Trump that if he lies, he will be called on it. Indeed, it is clear to all of us that he will probably be accused of lying even when he hasn't if necessary for the left to try to destroy him. As we all remember it was said that "Bush lied (about Saddam's WMD), and people died", when what he did was his express his belief based on the intelligence he got that Saddam had WMD. That was not a lie unless Bush actually knew Saddam didn't have any WMD which he couldn't possibly know. And arguably one of the most outrageous things that Trump has said during his campaign that he too believes that Bush lied about Saddam's WMD although he later admitted he didn't really know whether Bush had lied or not. The left has not similarly apologized. And the point is that Trump can expect to be called on his lies and will need to be careful. Not so for HRC
23
It is astonishing to me that, in any context, someone would defend the worst modern American president's worst decision. Whether or not Bush lied is irrelevant. His judgement was spectacularly and tragically flawed. Because of that many thousands of people died almost immediately, and many more thousands have died because his decisions created the vacuum which Isis has now filled.
4
Seems Bush cooked that up himself if his intelligence included what Hans Blix and th International Atomic Intelligence Agency said.
4
An odd assessment. How is the "jury still out" on Trump? If he'll lie attempting to *become* president (which he does, massively), how can there be any reasonable expectation that he won't lie if he *is* president?
4
Trump rarely lies. In order to lie you first need to know the truth. There are no truths, only TRUMPS. Seriously, dangerously mentally ill.
6
I'm more than a little disappointed with this article. The title is fascinating and I looked to forward to Trump's harmful and truly harmful lies being revealed. Once again I have been had; not by Hillary, nor even by The Donald, this time by Nicholas Kristof. So The Donald lied about the size of his apartment, when he objected to the war in Iraq, if he ever met Vladimir Putin and that his small hands were indicative of anything else being tiny. Big Deal.
The lies that should matter to all of us are Trump University and The Donald's escape from being charged with fraud, his ability to extract his own interests out of his Atlantic City adventures, his 'self-financing' of his campaign and, most recently, his support by millions of small-amount donors to give him funding comparable to Hillary's. These examples of malfeasance are noteworthy, not some two-bit landlord claiming to have a bigger apartment.
The lies that should matter to all of us are Trump University and The Donald's escape from being charged with fraud, his ability to extract his own interests out of his Atlantic City adventures, his 'self-financing' of his campaign and, most recently, his support by millions of small-amount donors to give him funding comparable to Hillary's. These examples of malfeasance are noteworthy, not some two-bit landlord claiming to have a bigger apartment.
10
I so much wanted to find this article substantive, but you lost me with the paragraph that said: "If Clinton declares that she didn’t chop down a cherry tree, that might mean that she actually used a chain saw to cut it down. Or that she ordered an aide to chop it down. As for Trump, he will insist, “I absolutely did not chop down that cherry tree,” even as he clutches the ax with which he chopped it down moments earlier on Facebook Live.", which is pure opinion. When there are SO many examples to simply line up and allow to speak for themselves, what is the point of inserting a paragraph like that? Similarly, why include the comments from Thomas Wells, which are also 2nd-hand opinion/gossip? I would really just like to see a piece that actually does what this one attempted to do, that lists all the examples of "lies" that the Republicans get angry about all the time (which you started to do with Benghazi and Bosnia stories) countered with the best factual dismemberment of those stories that a reporter can do, and does the exact same for all the mistruths that Trump has spouted. I guess I'm after more of a spreadsheet approach, than a continuation of the horse-race betting style of "journalism" that has been foisted off on us.
11
The difference is that when it comes to political lies, Mrs Clinton is a 20+ year professional, while Trump is a rank amateur. Trump should improve with more experience if that makes anyone happy.
2
The sad thing about this FACT is that trumpsters dont care! It reminds me of the movie Borat when he was at a rodeo and became more and more bizarrely psychotic in his love and support of america- the cheering eventually waned as his rant took on a level of violence the supportive group finally went "huh??!". Will that happen with trumpsters? who knows....
3
IMHO , your question does not have a clear answer. How do we distinguish between two of the worst, least qualified candidates in a very many years.
A better question might be" how did we Americans get into this situation"? And how soon can we get out of it?
A better question might be" how did we Americans get into this situation"? And how soon can we get out of it?
1
But Hillary has lied (or as the NYT calls it, fibbed) while in government.
And surely the importance of her lies (fibs) is much greater than a fool like Trump's fibs (lies).
And surely the importance of her lies (fibs) is much greater than a fool like Trump's fibs (lies).
7
We can be confident that, once in office, Trump will change his lifelong habits and tell the truth at least 30% of the time. Right?
Right?
Right?
2
Ha Ha Ha. Is it any surprise that an avid Clinton supporter will downplay her lies and augment Trumps? No wonder Trump thinks the media is blantantly dishonest.
7
Amazing that my wife and I were saying the same thing. When Hillary says something that can be construed as a lie, it immediately becomes a news story. She was interviewed for a half hour by Chris Wallace and said a number of newsworthy things. Yet the only thing that the news pundits spoke about was her comment regarding her emails. Similarly, she held a fairly comprehensive news conference on Friday and the only take-away was her comment on emails. That news conference was also over a half hour long.
Donald Trump's stump speeches are filled with lies yet all anyone cared about was if he endorsed Paul Ryan. How come no one pointed out his question to the audience: "Wouldn't it be nice to be friends with Russia?" Watch the video on You Tube entitled "Trump Exposes Trump." It illustrates exactly what you are saying.
Donald Trump's stump speeches are filled with lies yet all anyone cared about was if he endorsed Paul Ryan. How come no one pointed out his question to the audience: "Wouldn't it be nice to be friends with Russia?" Watch the video on You Tube entitled "Trump Exposes Trump." It illustrates exactly what you are saying.
340
30 years of accusations and zero prosecutable evidence of misdoing.
Chicken little actually believed the sky was falling. The GOP works hard to make it fall just to validate ideological delusion.
Chicken little actually believed the sky was falling. The GOP works hard to make it fall just to validate ideological delusion.
2
I used to admire your courageous journalism, so I am saddened to see you have been recruited into the army of Hillary trolls and haters that occupy the pages of the New York Times. Hillary lies about matters of national security and foreign policy; Trump exaggerates his business prowess and net worth, but there is no equivalency remotely involved. Sorry to lose your true insights and courage.
7
One of Trump's traits is his adding the comment, "....to be honest", after he says something clearly outrageous and unbelievable. I don't even think he knows what that means.
5
"Joking aside, I think there is much need of wise examination into what sorts of lies are best and wholesomest to be indulged, seeing we MUST all lie and we DO all lie, and what sorts it may be best to avoid." -- Mark Twain
3
On the one hand, regarding HRC, she's been harassed, ridiculed, berated, persecuted and lied about for years. I don't know how she's withstood the hatred and pure meanness heaped on her. I certainly couldn't have. I don't blame her for erecting an emotional wall - it's human nature when you're constantly the target of people who hate you for no good reason.
One the other hand, she's made some mistakes, and hasn't exactly owned up. She's at times her own worst enemy - the source of self inflicted wounds, like the email mess. Ok - not making excuses for her, she's human, we all screw up, sometimes in a big way, don't want to admit it (even to ourselves) or deal with the consequences.
I've not been a fan of hers, but something I saw in her face, in her eyes when she looked up at President Obama, in that sweet embrace after his speech at the convention, spoke to my heart. I saw strength and vulnerability, hope, determination, love of country and sincerity.
If only she would be brave enough, and have faith enough in the rest of us also flawed human beings, to show that side of herself, I think she'd be pleasantly surprised. Americans are, in my experience, a kind, generous, forgiving people who look out for each other, and fiercely protect our national family.
So Hillary... no more lies big or little, come clean - you'll feel better and so will we. Believe in us, we'll have your back. And Trump's lies? He's hanging himself with them, no assistance required.
One the other hand, she's made some mistakes, and hasn't exactly owned up. She's at times her own worst enemy - the source of self inflicted wounds, like the email mess. Ok - not making excuses for her, she's human, we all screw up, sometimes in a big way, don't want to admit it (even to ourselves) or deal with the consequences.
I've not been a fan of hers, but something I saw in her face, in her eyes when she looked up at President Obama, in that sweet embrace after his speech at the convention, spoke to my heart. I saw strength and vulnerability, hope, determination, love of country and sincerity.
If only she would be brave enough, and have faith enough in the rest of us also flawed human beings, to show that side of herself, I think she'd be pleasantly surprised. Americans are, in my experience, a kind, generous, forgiving people who look out for each other, and fiercely protect our national family.
So Hillary... no more lies big or little, come clean - you'll feel better and so will we. Believe in us, we'll have your back. And Trump's lies? He's hanging himself with them, no assistance required.
18
"Americans are, in my experience, a kind, generous, forgiving people who look out for each other, and fiercely protect our national family."
Yes. Just like when we had Richard Nixon.
Yes. Just like when we had Richard Nixon.
1
If you watch MSNBC and CNN, you constantly see the hosts ignoring
the outright lies from video of trump lying. They never challenge their
guest defending trumps lying. It is maddening!
Secretary Clinton has been in the public eye for a generation. In all
that time I think she has done her very best for this country.
If we're honest we would look at ourselves and our own sometimes
dishonesty, or fibs, or short cuts with the truth. trump, however is pathological, Lying Most of the time.
the outright lies from video of trump lying. They never challenge their
guest defending trumps lying. It is maddening!
Secretary Clinton has been in the public eye for a generation. In all
that time I think she has done her very best for this country.
If we're honest we would look at ourselves and our own sometimes
dishonesty, or fibs, or short cuts with the truth. trump, however is pathological, Lying Most of the time.
14
Clinton put a server in the rec room in Chappaqua while Trump invited Russia to spy on America. At Trump rallies folks boo Paul Ryan and call on Satan to do evil to Hillary while calling Putin our friend. Lies,slander and treason wrapped up into a slogan that is a scam. Trump has a volocanic mountain worth of infectious lies while Hillary's issues are whether she should have used the past or present tense.
Trump's dangerous while Hillary is at times slightly annoying. Let Trump stay in the penthouse with the Twitter and away from government offices.
Trump's dangerous while Hillary is at times slightly annoying. Let Trump stay in the penthouse with the Twitter and away from government offices.
13
The number count of lies and their classification as burning pants is not particularly meaningful to voters. Trump fans are a cult, Dems don't need the added negative info, in fact it dilutes bigger issues. So I wonder, who this is aimed at? Does the NYT writer of the best most cutting piece on Trump get a free Turkey on Thanksgiving or something?
Please address the problem for voters who do not want an establishment pol, who want to punish the politicians they see as unresponsive and incompetent, and so who drift toward Trump, who is so not a politician he's not even popular among the politicians of the party he is using to run for office.
Voters see all pols as liars generically. George Orwell stated, "Political language . . . is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind."
Please address the problem for voters who do not want an establishment pol, who want to punish the politicians they see as unresponsive and incompetent, and so who drift toward Trump, who is so not a politician he's not even popular among the politicians of the party he is using to run for office.
Voters see all pols as liars generically. George Orwell stated, "Political language . . . is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind."
3
I assume you believe the Clinton’s have been honest that their large speaking fees have no resemblance to bribes or could not have involved the disclosure of confidential government information. Does Bill Clinton receiving $500,000 for one talk to a Russian group while his wife was Secretary of State ruling on Russian interests raise any concerns? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-a... How much would Bill or Hillary Clinton have to receive for a one-hour talk before you would become suspicious. Since we don’t know what was said when Bill and Hillary gave talks for hundreds of thousands apiece, do you think there was any possibility the payments may have been for insider information?
4
It looks like most of Hillary's shaded truths were in her own defense or to embellish a story; Donnie's lies also included vicious, incendiary attacks on others people, countries, religions, races, etc. The ones about himself merely reflect his considerable insecurities.
5
Sure he's worse. But that's what we're faced with in this election. Really really terrible or pretty darn bad. Nothing to be happy about I'd say. You omitted a few recent ones here. How about 1) Sanders wants to take away your Obamacare and 2) he voted against saving Detroit? Then there's 3) Comey said I told the truth about my email server and 4) in any case, it was allowed. Also, 5) I don't take money from oil companies. One thing about Clinton is she always goes right up to the line and then sometimes she crosses it.
2
Clinton wins hands down for biggest liar and untrustworthiness because her lies were told to the american people while she was in public office. Benghazi, Iran, Haiti,Libya,emails, Comey, Clinton foundation favors while secy of state....the latter of which I'm sure will be exposed before the election . Trump exaggerates a story which is different than lying when you are an official representing our government.
6
Hating Hillary has been a knee-jerk response of the Republican right for more than 20 years. William Safire published brutal propaganda and made a habit of finding Clinton where there was none. There was at one point a meaningless Congressional hearing that lasted ten days with 140 hours of testimony investigating the Clinton's use of the White House Christmas card list.
Unfortunately many of the Bernie or Bust crowd has helped to propagate the same groundless mistrust of and dislike for Hillary. But lately, Trump has promoted even more extreme Hillary hatred resulting in proposals by his advisers and fans for her execution, and the now famous "lock her up" chant, typical of Trumpists who seem more like soccer hooligans than voters.
Hillary has has been under the public microscope for decades and we know her as a public figure in detail. Her performance in front of the Benghazi Political Assassination Committee revealed a tough, brilliant woman who made fools of her inquisitors. (It is almost hilarious to think of the incoherent Trump in those same circumstances).
Yes, Hillary has her flaws, and she has made mistakes in judgement as well, but none that even faintly justify her critics' virulent attacks. Put Hillary's "dissembling" and fibs in the context of Reagan's Iran/Contra scheme, Bush's WMD fraud, or Trump's perpetual pathological lying and Hillary looks like a Girl Scout.
Unfortunately many of the Bernie or Bust crowd has helped to propagate the same groundless mistrust of and dislike for Hillary. But lately, Trump has promoted even more extreme Hillary hatred resulting in proposals by his advisers and fans for her execution, and the now famous "lock her up" chant, typical of Trumpists who seem more like soccer hooligans than voters.
Hillary has has been under the public microscope for decades and we know her as a public figure in detail. Her performance in front of the Benghazi Political Assassination Committee revealed a tough, brilliant woman who made fools of her inquisitors. (It is almost hilarious to think of the incoherent Trump in those same circumstances).
Yes, Hillary has her flaws, and she has made mistakes in judgement as well, but none that even faintly justify her critics' virulent attacks. Put Hillary's "dissembling" and fibs in the context of Reagan's Iran/Contra scheme, Bush's WMD fraud, or Trump's perpetual pathological lying and Hillary looks like a Girl Scout.
513
Very true. Clinton has been subjected to intense and deceptive attacks since she was in Arkansas by the likes of the late Dickie Scaife Mellon and more recently by others such as Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Michael Savage, Mark Levin, et al.
3
I guess the question then becomes why do we put up with liars at all? Because we have no choice?
Lying is one of the most insidious things a person can do. Other people, counting on the lie to be the truth, act accordingly and a chain reaction begins.
And no one's perfect. We have all lied at some point. And yet with these two candidates we find an unprecedented level of deception.
How did they win their nominations? Where were the rest of us? Nowhere to be seen, and that includes me. If we don't participate in our democracy, then we get candidates like HRC and DJT.
We only have to look at ourselves. It may be too late for this election, but it's never too late for us to demand more from ourselves. Armed with integrity, we can then demand more from our elected officials.
Lying is one of the most insidious things a person can do. Other people, counting on the lie to be the truth, act accordingly and a chain reaction begins.
And no one's perfect. We have all lied at some point. And yet with these two candidates we find an unprecedented level of deception.
How did they win their nominations? Where were the rest of us? Nowhere to be seen, and that includes me. If we don't participate in our democracy, then we get candidates like HRC and DJT.
We only have to look at ourselves. It may be too late for this election, but it's never too late for us to demand more from ourselves. Armed with integrity, we can then demand more from our elected officials.
We've spent millions, wasted countless hours, and neglected the health and welfare of democracy and the country itself in the endless pursuit of Republican smoke.
Count their deeds and you'll quickly find that smoke just blows away leaving a vast amorphous blob of NOTHING of substance behind.
Count their deeds and you'll quickly find that smoke just blows away leaving a vast amorphous blob of NOTHING of substance behind.
2
Thank You. I cannot believe she is the one called a crooked liar, when those are his trademarks and yet the media lets him get away with it. I always tell people to check Politifact when they say that to me. I turn on Fox once in a while and that is all they talk about - how corrupt she is, it is no wonder all the sheep that watch that network think she is so bad, they never have heard of her good parts. Nobody ever gives details on her corruption other than the same old Benghazi and email. She didnt kill Vince Foster, there was nothing to travelgate, she probably really didnt want to believe that Bill cheated on her or at least did not want to say it out loud, nobody knew what the cause of the Benghazi attack was in the first few days so they were guessing and so on and so on, there is usually no there there.
7
The evidence that Clinton lied to the bereaved families of servicemen killed in Benghazi is in no way "unclear." Can the family members produce audio tapes of what Clinton said? No, but Mr. Kristof and the rest of the left boosting press suggesting Charles Woods and Patricia Smith aren't telling the truth is vile. I guess Gold Star families only deserve respect when their stumping for a democrat. How could any rational person doubt that Clinton told the same despicable lie about Benghazi to those despairing Gold Star families that she was also foisting on the American public. Clinton your "average lying politician?" What a bizarre claim. And look at the result. She has Mr Kristof lying for her. But the biggest lies are the ones Clinton supporters keep telling themselves about Clinton's fitness for the presidency.
4
Thank you for the perspective, Mr Kristof!
It's always seemed pretty clear to me the majority of the Clinton lying allegations are bolstered almost entirely by innuendo and dark speculation rather than facts. I'm surprised you didn't mention the literally millions of dollars wasted by republican-led congressional committees on repeated investigations, most notably those concerning the Benghazi tragedy, which revealed exactly zero wrongdoing on Clinton's part.
And the quote from his former lawyer - "The man lies all the time." - says it all. He and Trump's biographer might be faulted for breaching client confidentiality, but they are arguably serving a greater good by sharing these observations with the public. If only more would listen!
Clinton has told a few lies, but Trump simply IS one big lie.
It's always seemed pretty clear to me the majority of the Clinton lying allegations are bolstered almost entirely by innuendo and dark speculation rather than facts. I'm surprised you didn't mention the literally millions of dollars wasted by republican-led congressional committees on repeated investigations, most notably those concerning the Benghazi tragedy, which revealed exactly zero wrongdoing on Clinton's part.
And the quote from his former lawyer - "The man lies all the time." - says it all. He and Trump's biographer might be faulted for breaching client confidentiality, but they are arguably serving a greater good by sharing these observations with the public. If only more would listen!
Clinton has told a few lies, but Trump simply IS one big lie.
273
If anything, Benghazi was a result of Republican under funding of the embassy mission. Small, little, teeny-weeny government is a great political ploy that can used to create the chaos that the GOP immediately exploits to fill the pockets of them, their relatives, their pay-to-play friends (including the political chaos that they need to get elected in order to generate more).
It's time for both sides to question their tribal ways, and focus more on the human value what we can do together. The animal kingdom is about "me" not "we". Civilization is all about "we", not "me".
It's time for both sides to question their tribal ways, and focus more on the human value what we can do together. The animal kingdom is about "me" not "we". Civilization is all about "we", not "me".
3
Just wish Nick would go on the talk shows sharing the content of his column!
2
The headline of this piece is disingenuous, in my opinion.
There has been little critical coverage here in the NYT of the Wikileaks dump of DNC emails - and a further dump of them may more closely tie Mrs. Clinton herself to what happened. It is a real stretch of the imagination to think that Mrs. Clinton didn't know what was going on in the DNC's overt actions to deny Bernie Sanders the nomination. Compounding the problem was Mrs. Clinton herself giving a position within her campaign to Debbie Wasserman-Schultz. Then there is the email scandal, plus the relatively un-examined role of the Clinton Foundation and funds given to it by various entities during her time as Secretary of State. Poor judgement over time might be one way to put it - but very worrisome in a presidential candidate and a major source of her high unfavorable ratings.
Trump does not have this lengthy political history. He may tell whoppers but they have not, to date anyway, involved U.S. security in any way. Plus he won the Republican primary without any shenanigans of the RNC trying to throw it his way.
There has been little critical coverage here in the NYT of the Wikileaks dump of DNC emails - and a further dump of them may more closely tie Mrs. Clinton herself to what happened. It is a real stretch of the imagination to think that Mrs. Clinton didn't know what was going on in the DNC's overt actions to deny Bernie Sanders the nomination. Compounding the problem was Mrs. Clinton herself giving a position within her campaign to Debbie Wasserman-Schultz. Then there is the email scandal, plus the relatively un-examined role of the Clinton Foundation and funds given to it by various entities during her time as Secretary of State. Poor judgement over time might be one way to put it - but very worrisome in a presidential candidate and a major source of her high unfavorable ratings.
Trump does not have this lengthy political history. He may tell whoppers but they have not, to date anyway, involved U.S. security in any way. Plus he won the Republican primary without any shenanigans of the RNC trying to throw it his way.
6
I may be mistaken, and not to split hairs... I think Clinton stated that Comey and the FBI did say that she was truthful in her interview with them ...she answered all questions truthfully. However, her muddled ("short circuit ") answers to questions from the press were certainly misleading at best and untruthful at worst....when asked over and over again in an effort to get a "gotcha"moment.
1
In the House hearing with James Comey, he stated: "Prosecuting Clinton would be celebrity hunting...judging the person differently than John Doe." How do I know he said it? I recorded the hearing and watched it myself. I replayed it so I got his exact words. So, why do so many journalists overlook this? Why is this statement by Comey not quoted? Why do you, Mr. Kristof, write as if Comey said Clinton lied? He found the opposite. His conclusion is opposite of what most think--that Clinton is above the law, rather than his conclusion--if she were prosecuted, it would only be because she is famous and some want to bring her down.
5
Perhaps the difference is Clinton lies about things that really matter. When she's caught, she continues to lie. And she lies about things she knows not to be true. Trump's statements on the other hand are more outrageous; he says things without ever having a clue if they are factual.
So...she's dishonest and he's ignorant.
So...she's dishonest and he's ignorant.
12
wow what a choice - weighing the difference between fibbing and lying and giving one props for dishonesty-lite.
it's like the abusive person who says "at least i didn't actually hit you" or the cheating lover who says "at least i didn't give you a disease." if that's the best we can do then america is morally bankrupt.
it's like the abusive person who says "at least i didn't actually hit you" or the cheating lover who says "at least i didn't give you a disease." if that's the best we can do then america is morally bankrupt.
9
Even if Donald Trump is convinced to become disciplined (i.e. read off a teleprompter) over the next few months he is still a pathological liar who lacks the ability for empathy. What you see is what you get from him and unfortunately this Republican will likely have to vote for a Democrat.
14
I'm not sure you are making Hillary Clinton's position any better, by saying her lies are just not as thorough as someone else's lies.
A liar is a liar is liar.
There is no "olympic" or "junior varsity" when it comes to lying.
A liar is a liar is liar.
There is no "olympic" or "junior varsity" when it comes to lying.
9
Hillary is not a liar.
Others -- like the FBI -- may fib, fabricate, be untruthful, be deceptive, and even tell a whopper about her private email server and national security.
But Hillary would not lie about such trifle trivialities.
Others -- like the FBI -- may fib, fabricate, be untruthful, be deceptive, and even tell a whopper about her private email server and national security.
But Hillary would not lie about such trifle trivialities.
4
If Trump told the truth, I probably would assume it's another lie......and that's true
5
Thanx once again, Nicholas.
Fib v. Lie is unfortunately a concept
no Trumpite would understand
Only a child could get it. sad
Fib v. Lie is unfortunately a concept
no Trumpite would understand
Only a child could get it. sad
3
I'm voting for her, not in the very least because I'm a Democrat and he is a racist psychopath. Still, the fact is that once someone's honesty has been compromised it's not very effective to say that someone else is worse. People need to trust, and they don't care about the degree of it. You won't lend $100 to someone you mistrust just a little.
For over thirty years, Republicans have dreamed of the day they could get even for Watergate, and Hillary might be the one to give them the chance.
For over thirty years, Republicans have dreamed of the day they could get even for Watergate, and Hillary might be the one to give them the chance.
2
The long known, but little reported details, on the Clinton foundation right from its inception should be ample argument as to what the Clintons think of their Nation, and their morality.
http://spectator.org/shut-it-down-the-clinton-foundation-is-too-corrupt-...
This is not about lies, it's about morals, common sense, and patriotic stance.
http://spectator.org/shut-it-down-the-clinton-foundation-is-too-corrupt-...
This is not about lies, it's about morals, common sense, and patriotic stance.
6
Dear Hillary Haters:
Don't vote for her, but at least do it for real reasons.
Hysterically calling her names, or exaggerating deficiencies only diminishes you.
Don't vote for her, but at least do it for real reasons.
Hysterically calling her names, or exaggerating deficiencies only diminishes you.
9
Disclaimer: I am voting for Hillary. This doesn't mean I am okay with the fact that her lying is the "norm" for most politicians. I do think we, as a culture, need to study dishonesty carefully, why we do it and how it injures us all. We all lie to some degree. That said, DJT does take it to pathological levels.
I recommend the documentary (Dis)Honesty, work by the behavioral scientist Dan Ariely. Fascinating study of why we lie and it's impact. We put our politicians in fishbowls, judge them to a seemingly impossible standard (there but for the grace...), and expect them to NOT lie. I'm not saying we should be comfortable with deceit, I am saying we need to understand it's roots, and be more thoughtful about it, in ourselves and in those we choose to represent us.
I recommend the documentary (Dis)Honesty, work by the behavioral scientist Dan Ariely. Fascinating study of why we lie and it's impact. We put our politicians in fishbowls, judge them to a seemingly impossible standard (there but for the grace...), and expect them to NOT lie. I'm not saying we should be comfortable with deceit, I am saying we need to understand it's roots, and be more thoughtful about it, in ourselves and in those we choose to represent us.
12
Well said.
3
Nicholas, can you swing by Maureen's office sometime and help untangle herself from her hatred of Hillary, introduce her to the real world, and explain the dangers of Trump?
After that spend some time with Mr Brooks, and explain that Trump is dangerous not just for his temper, but his policy too.
After that spend some time with Mr Brooks, and explain that Trump is dangerous not just for his temper, but his policy too.
12
Trump clearly has a psychological disorder which only in part manifests itself with outrageous lies. So, what is Hillary Clinton's excuse? She is as cagey and paranoid as Richard Nixon whose presidency tremendously hurt this country. Her "honesty" is nothing to celebrate.
5
Interestingly, I've had more than a few Trump supporters tell me they don't think he's telling the truth about some of his policies, that he will moderate, and that's why they support him. Why, I always ask, do they want to vote for someone they are sure is telling a lie? Because they don't trust Clinton is one response, because Trump can't possibly be that mad is another.
It's very frustrating.
It's very frustrating.
4
In past presidential elections, Republicans criticized Democrats for being "tax and spend liberals." They're not emphasizing this so much during the 2016 election. Instead, the only persistent criticism of Hillary Clinton is that she supposedly "can't be trusted" and that we should "lock her up," without providing any clear evidence to explain why she "can't be trusted" and why someone should "lock her up."
I'd love people to start citing their sources before they make these outrageous claims: Was it the FBI? The CIA? The NY Times? The Washington Post? Is there some type of bipartisan commission that's more concerned about Clinton than all of the other candidates in this year's election?
Rather than issue vague pronouncements about her supposed lack of honesty, where's all of the criticism about her desire to enact social programs that will undoubtedly require an increase in taxes for the wealthiest Americans? One would think they would be hammering her on that. She has a history of promoting health care for the needy, and a desire to help the working class improve their lives overall.
So I wish for once the Republicans *would* call her a "tax-and-spend liberal" -- maybe it would emphasize the point that she's one of the most progressive candidates for president this country has ever had, and in the process convince a few voters who have been misled to believe otherwise:
http://cdn.bipartisanreport.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Who...
I'd love people to start citing their sources before they make these outrageous claims: Was it the FBI? The CIA? The NY Times? The Washington Post? Is there some type of bipartisan commission that's more concerned about Clinton than all of the other candidates in this year's election?
Rather than issue vague pronouncements about her supposed lack of honesty, where's all of the criticism about her desire to enact social programs that will undoubtedly require an increase in taxes for the wealthiest Americans? One would think they would be hammering her on that. She has a history of promoting health care for the needy, and a desire to help the working class improve their lives overall.
So I wish for once the Republicans *would* call her a "tax-and-spend liberal" -- maybe it would emphasize the point that she's one of the most progressive candidates for president this country has ever had, and in the process convince a few voters who have been misled to believe otherwise:
http://cdn.bipartisanreport.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Who...
5
It's a pity Trump supporters will either never read this essay or just call Mr. Kristof a liar. Everything is a conspiracy to them, an attempt to vilify their "hero." Look at his "economic advisors:" all millionaires and billionaires. These men exploit Trump's supporters to get richer. Any "uneducated" need not apply...
5
There you go another Hillary apologist claiming that she is the lesser of the two liars. But her lies are more damning and question her integrity and judgment handling the top most job in the whole world. She has lied all along and the Politifact, run by a newspaper company called Tampa Bay Times heartfully endorsed Hillary. I would not quote Politifact as a credible source, because they have the vested interests. Somemight question that is not the case. However, if you look at the fact checking on Hillary's statements done by Politifact, you will see a lot of assumptions and suppositions to make her statement a possible truth. They have made some lies as truths because of lack of evidence. In my opinion, lack of evidences does not mean that is a possible truth; rather they should have postponed the judgment, yet they blatantly sided with Hillary. I agree Trump is a liar, but Hillary is not farther away. And her lies will threaten the national interests and security of the nation. So, choosing the lesser of the liars is still choosing a liar. I strongly disagree with Mr. Kristof for that reason.
5
Surely you meant Hillary's ongoing avalanche of habitual lies versus Trump's exaggarations.
5
Two Liars who are quite aware that they are lying.
Can't this country do better ???
Can't this country do better ???
6
Nick: a view from post-Brexit UK, sadly we are in a post factual era. It's not about the truth anymore, it's about the narrative. All politicians are assumed to be liars, the question is which politicians give us the best fiction. DJT's fiction is unravelling, but a more accomplished, more coherent peddler of right-wing fiction could win. The marvel is that he has got so far to be a contender.
146
We must be smart, caring and informed. Cynicism makes one as dangerous to democracy as are politicians who do not care about the truth.
The narrative is a function of the hate, fear, greed, jealousy, and bigotry that fills the void of the uncertainty of progress and change.
We're in a time great change, and the battle is all about whether "we, the people", or 'they, the corporations' come out on top.
We could have a world where corporations replace nations, but, in the end that would be a return to a downward spiral to autocracy.
We need to do the hard maintaining democracy or perhaps even the inventing of something even more liberal and progressive designed raise up rather than cloister humanity.
We're in a time great change, and the battle is all about whether "we, the people", or 'they, the corporations' come out on top.
We could have a world where corporations replace nations, but, in the end that would be a return to a downward spiral to autocracy.
We need to do the hard maintaining democracy or perhaps even the inventing of something even more liberal and progressive designed raise up rather than cloister humanity.
Good column to keep on hand.
But there is also a difference between saying something that turns out to be wrong and lying. The FBI concluded that some things Hillary Clinton said weren't true. But it is an interpretation to say that she made the errors on purpose, i.e., lied. I am surprised to hear even mainstream media use that word about her. I don't see how you could not say that about Donald Trump, though. As you say, even with concrete evidence he maintains his positions.
But there is also a difference between saying something that turns out to be wrong and lying. The FBI concluded that some things Hillary Clinton said weren't true. But it is an interpretation to say that she made the errors on purpose, i.e., lied. I am surprised to hear even mainstream media use that word about her. I don't see how you could not say that about Donald Trump, though. As you say, even with concrete evidence he maintains his positions.
5
Thank you, Nicholas Kristof, for laying out before us what most of us knew, but couldn't prove; you have done that for us. Donald Trump is a terrifying man who, God forbid, if he won the election, would wreak havoc on the entire world. Many years ago, we were at a law school meeting in Mexico. At the final gala dinner, a man nobody knew went up to the mike and said the following with much excitement, his veins popping out of his neck: "This is the most important meeting in the country. No, who says country? It is the most important meeting in the hemisphere. No, who says hemisphere? It is the most important meeting in the world. No, who says, world? It is the most important meeting in the universe." And with that, he left. Without question, Trump would wreak havoc on the entire universe. If only he would leave, never to be heard from again.
74
Should be re-titled "Clinton's Sanity vs. Trump's Insanity."
When I think about "Donald Nuclear Codes = Potential Apocalypse," Hillary's emails don't exactly seem to be too important anymore...
When I think about "Donald Nuclear Codes = Potential Apocalypse," Hillary's emails don't exactly seem to be too important anymore...
9
"Harder to defend is her disingenuous explanation of flip-flopping on the Asian trade agreement."
Actually, this one is pretty simple and familiar to employment everywhere: you don't go against your superior publicly. As Secretary of State, Mrs. Clinton was obligated to support the Trans-Pacific deal, whatever she thought. Now that she no longer represents President Obama, she is free to have an honest disagreement with him, and a pretty minor one at that.
Actually, this one is pretty simple and familiar to employment everywhere: you don't go against your superior publicly. As Secretary of State, Mrs. Clinton was obligated to support the Trans-Pacific deal, whatever she thought. Now that she no longer represents President Obama, she is free to have an honest disagreement with him, and a pretty minor one at that.
7
There is an article in this very paper right now entitled "For Putin, Disinformation is Power". This holds true for Trump. He lies repeatedly and brazenly. He doesn't care if he is caught. By then, he is on to his next bigger lie. It's his brand! Even his buildings have fewer floors than advertised. When you buy an apartment on the 50th floor of a Trump building, you are probably on the 40th floor (see Trump Word Tower in NYC as example number one). What does it matter?! You get to SAY you are on the 50th floor. The elevator will TELL you that you are on 50. But it's all fake. It's all smoke and mirrors, just like his silly entrance on his convention stage.
And it's all terrifying. Trump will gladly become a Putin stooge because Putin has learned how to flatter a fragile ego. As has been stated by a former CIA Director, Trump is a direct threat to our national security.
And it's all terrifying. Trump will gladly become a Putin stooge because Putin has learned how to flatter a fragile ego. As has been stated by a former CIA Director, Trump is a direct threat to our national security.
13
"ONE persistent narrative in American politics is that Hillary Clinton is a slippery, compulsive liar while Donald Trump is a gutsy truth-teller."
The reason for the narrative that Hillary is a liar is because she is a intelligent, hard working, successful woman. The bias that she is a liar is pure sexism.
The reason for the narrative that Hillary is a liar is because she is a intelligent, hard working, successful woman. The bias that she is a liar is pure sexism.
12
A pox on both of their, Clinton's & Trump's houses. To turn this election into a classification problem on the truthfulness scale is to ignore all of the real issues facing America. Issues like:
1)Rebuilding Our Crumbling Infrastructure
2)Reversing Climate Change
3)Creating Worker Co-ops
4)Growing the Trade Union Movement
5)Raising the Minimum Wage
6)Pay Equity for Women Workers
7)Trade Policies that Benefit American Workers
8)Making College Affordable for All
9)Taking on Wall Street
10)Health Care as a Right for All
11)Protecting the Most Vulnerable Americans
12)Real Tax Reform
It goes to character...if Hillary wasn't as bought-and-paid for, dare I say corrupted by corporate money and influence, as witnessed by her record supporting policies harming working class people she might prove attractive...but her record combined with her flip-flopping is evidence that her heart is just not in the right place.
As to Trump, his character is non-existent...witness both his inflated ego and brand/company valuation. Imho, he's all braggadocio and bluster!
Senator Sanders is open, honest, authentic, consistent & humble. His character, his policies, his vision and most of all his voting record are what make me confident, not 'anxious', about his ability to lead this country out of the corruption, inequality, war-mongering, and rigged economy that have marked my life in the Army as well as my working career!
1)Rebuilding Our Crumbling Infrastructure
2)Reversing Climate Change
3)Creating Worker Co-ops
4)Growing the Trade Union Movement
5)Raising the Minimum Wage
6)Pay Equity for Women Workers
7)Trade Policies that Benefit American Workers
8)Making College Affordable for All
9)Taking on Wall Street
10)Health Care as a Right for All
11)Protecting the Most Vulnerable Americans
12)Real Tax Reform
It goes to character...if Hillary wasn't as bought-and-paid for, dare I say corrupted by corporate money and influence, as witnessed by her record supporting policies harming working class people she might prove attractive...but her record combined with her flip-flopping is evidence that her heart is just not in the right place.
As to Trump, his character is non-existent...witness both his inflated ego and brand/company valuation. Imho, he's all braggadocio and bluster!
Senator Sanders is open, honest, authentic, consistent & humble. His character, his policies, his vision and most of all his voting record are what make me confident, not 'anxious', about his ability to lead this country out of the corruption, inequality, war-mongering, and rigged economy that have marked my life in the Army as well as my working career!
7
The NYT is a blatant shill for Clinton; "sure she lies, but not as much as Trump...." how about "sure she stumps for war, bad trade agreements, interventions in other countries' democratically-elected government's, helps facilitates arms deals to Saudi Arabia, etc- but not as much as Trump." I'm no Trump fan, but a "fair and balanced" assesment of Hillary you won't get here.
7
Well, Mr. Trump was never investigated by the FBI for lies. And, we have the Vast Hope proliferated by Hillary, of many free things...free higher education, free retraining for mine workers, government money to communities which have had hard times. And more...and she will be brandishing a battle ax over the rich and the business community. Certainly, she views herself as a New Age Joan of Arc.
4
The larger question is how do we convince Trump's followers that it matters? When truths are formed by Facebook memes and T-shirt slogans, facts are irrelevant annoyances. And Trump revels in the idolatry as he reflects and enables their ignorance. I shudder with horror at the thought of living in a country governed by fool's gold.
234
I doubt they could be convinced. They have the rush of adrenaline sparked by anger boiling over. There is no thinking going on when a mob is charging.
If you are endorsing DT for president, you are not a credible judge of others or in any position to claim moral superiority over anything HRC has ever done.
7
He's not only a liar, but he doesn't even know he's lying some of the time; pathological is exactly the right word. He's mentally ill.
7
For those of us outside New York, Mr. Trump is a relatively recent phenomenon. We have known Hillary for 24 years. As your late colleague at the NYT, William Safire, once wrote, "she is a congenital liar."
As Mary McCarthy once wrote bout Lillian Hellman,
"every word she says is a lie...including the "a" and the "the."
Both of these candidates are disgraceful.
As Mary McCarthy once wrote bout Lillian Hellman,
"every word she says is a lie...including the "a" and the "the."
Both of these candidates are disgraceful.
7
Sadly, this editorial cannot possibly penetrate the bubble conservatives live within - it will be rejected as another "mainstream media" attack on their chosen candidate.
There was a time when Americans agreed about what was true and what was not, and viewed certain media outlets as unbiased repositories of fact. I grew up listening to Walter Cronkite reciting the daily news; to this day I cannot tell you if he was conservative or liberal. It didn't matter - his job was to report the news, and he did exactly that, day after day, for years. We've lost that notion that some news sources are unimpeachable; today, everything that is reported is automatically suspect if it does not support what we already believe to be true.
While we can play the blame game all day as to why this is true, the fact remains that this decomposition of a national foundation of credibility is the main reason for the extreme polarity that currently exists in our political dialogue, and it is the reason a snake oil salesman like Donald Trump can come within one election of being the most powerful individual in the free world.
There was a time when Americans agreed about what was true and what was not, and viewed certain media outlets as unbiased repositories of fact. I grew up listening to Walter Cronkite reciting the daily news; to this day I cannot tell you if he was conservative or liberal. It didn't matter - his job was to report the news, and he did exactly that, day after day, for years. We've lost that notion that some news sources are unimpeachable; today, everything that is reported is automatically suspect if it does not support what we already believe to be true.
While we can play the blame game all day as to why this is true, the fact remains that this decomposition of a national foundation of credibility is the main reason for the extreme polarity that currently exists in our political dialogue, and it is the reason a snake oil salesman like Donald Trump can come within one election of being the most powerful individual in the free world.
12
Donald Trump is your stereotypical Fox News watcher / Rush Limbaugh listener. Anything that molds to or fits into their worldview (immigrants and non-whites are raping this country, Obama is the worst President in history, rich people will save America) is accepted as truth without question. Anything that might contradict the story of America they've crafted for themselves, is rejected without a second thought.
It's funny that the same people who mock "liberals" for inventing the term "safe space" are the ones who have had the longest history of rejecting evidence, truth, and sheltering themselves in a wild cave where the only truths that are allowed to seep through have been pre-approved by safe-space gatekeepers Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh.
Anyone who tells you only communist countries like N. Korea and Soviet Russia engage in propaganda, have not turned on Fox News OR have already long been propagandized to.
This explains the Trump phenomenon.
It's funny that the same people who mock "liberals" for inventing the term "safe space" are the ones who have had the longest history of rejecting evidence, truth, and sheltering themselves in a wild cave where the only truths that are allowed to seep through have been pre-approved by safe-space gatekeepers Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh.
Anyone who tells you only communist countries like N. Korea and Soviet Russia engage in propaganda, have not turned on Fox News OR have already long been propagandized to.
This explains the Trump phenomenon.
14
The perfect candidate to represent the modern,Republican party When the truth becomes too complex for the masses to understand, feed them lies,..
4
Hillary Clinton is the best prepared to be elected President. Most of the charges against her were created by the Republicsn establishment over the years because they did not want s Clinton in office. Nicholas Kristoff 's column points out the many fabrications Trump makes all the time! He is a pathological liar and dangerous!
6
Proving Mr. Trump is a liar is not going to dissuade his supporters. They're proud of his lies.
10
Trump is a compulsive liar, i.e., he is grandiose superior over entitled to the point that he is in complete denial about his lying. He has a major personality disorder and is a compromised person. He is mentally and emotionally unfit for office ANY office. His judgment is impaired. He
distorts reality. Thus the fact that he lies constantly to himself and others
makes him dangerous in any leadership position.
distorts reality. Thus the fact that he lies constantly to himself and others
makes him dangerous in any leadership position.
5
No Clinton did not lie about sending classified emails. So tired of explaining to the lazy media that both Comeys and Clintons assertions are true. Comey thinks that email marked with a small c in the body of an email should be considered classified whereas Clinton asserts that a small c in the body of the text means that the material has been downgraded and no longer classified. Moreover, Comey has said, which the media ignores, that it is "reasonable" that Clinton might have drawn the "inference" that none of the emails were classified. None of the emails in fact were NOT marked at the top as secret or classified. Okay?
62
Moreover, the State Department also states that the 3 emails with the (c) which refers to the info is confidential rather than classified was mis- characterized, and that the info is no longer confidential by the time Secretary responded or received. One of the email mentioned that Kofi Annan decided to Step down at the UN, the others refers to upcoming meeting or phone call with foreign officials.... something akin to the reminder you would receive from your calendar.
41
It's all about the tyranny of choice. It's much simpler to choose from among three varieties of cereal than fifty-three,
It's much easier to pinpoint a few falsehoods by Hillary and keep pounding away at them than to nail Trump about a multitude of lies.
And then there's what Mark Twain said: "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes".
Imagine how long the truth about Trump has to spend putting its shoes on.
Trump is nothing if not cunning. The more lies he spreads around the more they protect him as a smoke screen. This is a variation on Goebbels' Big Lie tactics, but just as effective.
The way to counter Trump is not through fact-checking and simple refutation; in other words, not with a laundry list like Mr. Kristof's. The Republicans have excelled for years as campaigners, with the help of skilled wordsmiths like Frank Luntz. It's more than time for the Dems to play catchup. If Luntz isn't for Trump, they could do worse than make him an offer.
It's much easier to pinpoint a few falsehoods by Hillary and keep pounding away at them than to nail Trump about a multitude of lies.
And then there's what Mark Twain said: "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes".
Imagine how long the truth about Trump has to spend putting its shoes on.
Trump is nothing if not cunning. The more lies he spreads around the more they protect him as a smoke screen. This is a variation on Goebbels' Big Lie tactics, but just as effective.
The way to counter Trump is not through fact-checking and simple refutation; in other words, not with a laundry list like Mr. Kristof's. The Republicans have excelled for years as campaigners, with the help of skilled wordsmiths like Frank Luntz. It's more than time for the Dems to play catchup. If Luntz isn't for Trump, they could do worse than make him an offer.
22
The election is a war of images and propaganda rather than verified facts and logic. It will be decided by who is more successful at dissembling and projecting images, and the images will be evaluated according to their impact, not their accuracy.
Those who like Trump's spirit and aggressiveness must be convinced that however desirable his goals, he is incapable of being organized and disciplined enough to achieve them.
Those who like Trump's spirit and aggressiveness must be convinced that however desirable his goals, he is incapable of being organized and disciplined enough to achieve them.
15
It would help if Trump critics would identify the issues that can bring Trump down and start writing about them. Fact-checkers will have essentially zero effect on this election. Trump vs. Clinton isn't about bean-counting. It's about their personas and their vision for the future.
If i were a pundit, I would address my arguments to Trump supporters and I'd go for a little pizazz. This is the kind of stuff that works:
1. all military heroes deserve the medals they earn, whoever their parents are;
2. Trump's 50 foot wall will spur Mexican production of 51 foot ladders;
3. Going door to door to deport 11 million illegals will result in more deportation hearings than there have been since Trump was born. Somebody's got to pay for those hearings, and that will be the middle class.
4. If we cut back trade, prices at all the stores where Trump supporters shop -- from Walmart to Macy's and more -- will double or triple or quadruple. But Trump won't mind -- he gets everything custom made.
Krugman is preaching to the choir. Nothing he says matters to Trump supporters. I'd like to win this election, so I'd like to see the pundits work on the wedge between Trump and his supporters. Trump is a real estate magnate worth $3 billion. His supporters are middle class. If you can't work on the wedge between the two, you might as well find something else to write about .
If i were a pundit, I would address my arguments to Trump supporters and I'd go for a little pizazz. This is the kind of stuff that works:
1. all military heroes deserve the medals they earn, whoever their parents are;
2. Trump's 50 foot wall will spur Mexican production of 51 foot ladders;
3. Going door to door to deport 11 million illegals will result in more deportation hearings than there have been since Trump was born. Somebody's got to pay for those hearings, and that will be the middle class.
4. If we cut back trade, prices at all the stores where Trump supporters shop -- from Walmart to Macy's and more -- will double or triple or quadruple. But Trump won't mind -- he gets everything custom made.
Krugman is preaching to the choir. Nothing he says matters to Trump supporters. I'd like to win this election, so I'd like to see the pundits work on the wedge between Trump and his supporters. Trump is a real estate magnate worth $3 billion. His supporters are middle class. If you can't work on the wedge between the two, you might as well find something else to write about .
56
I recently read a Trump supporters defense of Trump that he was going to help the middle class. I ask what has Donald Trump ever done for the middle class? All the buildings he's built they can't afford to live in or pay the initiation fee to his golf courses or stay at Mar-A-Largo. His father built middle class housing in Queens- he was called The King of Middle Class Housing. Donald hated it and wanted to get away and move to Manhattan to build luxury condo's for the rich. His whole Brand is about expensive luxury- and himself.
1
A minor correction This is Nick Kristoff's column, not Paul Krugman's.
No, nothing will matter to hard-core Trump supporters. But, IMHO, he's run out of them, and there just aren't any more. And those others with brains or sense are already backing away...and irony of ironies, according to the Daily News, if they signed up for automatic donations to the Trump campaign, there's no mechanism to shut it off when they change their mind short of cancelling the credit card! BTW, Clinton's web site DOES have a mechanism to cancel the regular automatic donations.
No, nothing will matter to hard-core Trump supporters. But, IMHO, he's run out of them, and there just aren't any more. And those others with brains or sense are already backing away...and irony of ironies, according to the Daily News, if they signed up for automatic donations to the Trump campaign, there's no mechanism to shut it off when they change their mind short of cancelling the credit card! BTW, Clinton's web site DOES have a mechanism to cancel the regular automatic donations.
1
... Kristof, not Krugman -- just did my fact-checking
To have even a chance of winning a presidential election in the U.S., a candidate must promise to deliver more goodies, for less taxes, while controlling or eliminating deficits. Tell me how anyone makes such claims without lying?
12
Comparing the percent of PolitFact-analyzed statements for each candidate seems meaningless. I haven't studied their methods, but it's always seemed to me that the selection of statements to analyze could be biased towards questionable assertions, which if true would likely skew the more truthful candidate to appear more dishonest than they are.
Also, the kinds of statements analyzed vary in importance, so if one candidate lies about things that are less important and tends to be honest about more critical issues, they could have a similar rating to someone who likes about very important issues.
I remember in the last presidential election Obama was called out for being less than honest about some issue because his numbers were off, even though the gist of his point was true. That kind of "lie" was probably an honest misquote of a number and even if it was deliberate, it wasn't that consequential.
Hillary's dishonesty happens when she is being defensive or protective of her privacy. I don't like it, but she does it when she thinks she's under attack or challenged about past positions. But when she is talking about policy she seems to be smart, knowledgeable and a straight shooter.
Trump lies continuously about almost any and every topic large and small.
The numbers don't show the vast difference between the two when it comes to lying.
Also, the kinds of statements analyzed vary in importance, so if one candidate lies about things that are less important and tends to be honest about more critical issues, they could have a similar rating to someone who likes about very important issues.
I remember in the last presidential election Obama was called out for being less than honest about some issue because his numbers were off, even though the gist of his point was true. That kind of "lie" was probably an honest misquote of a number and even if it was deliberate, it wasn't that consequential.
Hillary's dishonesty happens when she is being defensive or protective of her privacy. I don't like it, but she does it when she thinks she's under attack or challenged about past positions. But when she is talking about policy she seems to be smart, knowledgeable and a straight shooter.
Trump lies continuously about almost any and every topic large and small.
The numbers don't show the vast difference between the two when it comes to lying.
69
There is something seriously wrong with this perception as well as the fake equivalence between the candidates by many media people. Comey clearly said that only 3 emails out of 30,000 were marked confidential and admitted at the hearing they were obscurely marked, and the state department did not even consider them classified. Comey did say that Hillary Clinton did not mislead the FBI agents. But this has once again dominated the news for days.
If anyone were actually put to the question, how many would know that 3 out of 30,000 emails were actually the ones considered, and that this pales compared to previous administrations (the 22 million deleted emails from the Bush administration, the various private servers used by Bush White House staffers, Sarah Palin, and multiple others). The same thing is true of Benghazi. Notwithstanding that no previous secretary of state has been held accountable for attacks on embassies or consulates, there have been eight Congressional investigations and other State Department ones, none of which established any illegal action by Sec. Clinton. The video that right wingers love to deny the existence of, is attested by history itself, as well as the attackers who called it a catalyst of the attack. And of course, the US and Libya captured the leaders of the actual attack (none of whom were Hillary Clinton).
This is misogyny. And it is false equivalence. Again and again and again.
If anyone were actually put to the question, how many would know that 3 out of 30,000 emails were actually the ones considered, and that this pales compared to previous administrations (the 22 million deleted emails from the Bush administration, the various private servers used by Bush White House staffers, Sarah Palin, and multiple others). The same thing is true of Benghazi. Notwithstanding that no previous secretary of state has been held accountable for attacks on embassies or consulates, there have been eight Congressional investigations and other State Department ones, none of which established any illegal action by Sec. Clinton. The video that right wingers love to deny the existence of, is attested by history itself, as well as the attackers who called it a catalyst of the attack. And of course, the US and Libya captured the leaders of the actual attack (none of whom were Hillary Clinton).
This is misogyny. And it is false equivalence. Again and again and again.
182
That is not what Comey said. Repetition of falsehoods does Hillary no favors with anyone who cares. Telling the truth is not misogyny.
14
Unfortunately, it is not just the "right wingers" who fall for the misguided accusations. The far, far left does, too. Many of them would rather see the world burn than acknowledge Hillary Clinton is not the devil. It's shameful and self defeating. Some people wish to be victims rather than finding practical solutions.
1
“We have no basis to conclude she lied to the FBI.” — James Comey
That is what he said. .
That is what he said. .
2
Additionally, to compare the two candidates might be amusing to reporters of both publications, but to serious readers many find this offensive. Suggest all New York Times reporters read for your former boss, Jill Abramson, article that was published in the Guardian.