Please! does anyone, relatively well informed, thinks a former colorless Afghan president is in a position to destabilize the current one? Hint: think the magical word - Taliban.
2
How about a reality check for all those who talk about primitive, backward Afghanistan? Does any one of them remember that country before the Soviet and American invasions?
In the 1960s an American photographer found it to be a thriving, modernizing country.
They say one picture is worth a thousands. Here are 59 photographs of Afghanistan before the wars. It was a country many of us loved and found beautiful and compelling.
http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2013/01/28/podlich-afghanistan-1960...
I recommend people also seek out photos of the university in Kabul in the 1960s. Look at all the young women in modern western dress relishing the chance to get a college education. Compare that with the situation of women today after the United States arrived to "save them" from the Taliban which it had originally created and financed.
Please explore what Afghanistan (and particularly what Kabul) was before two foreign powers invaded.
Americans and the West in general need desperately to see firsthand the effects of their interventions into other countries.
These "before" photographs will surprise many people and show graphically what has been lost in the wars against Afghanistan.
In the 1960s an American photographer found it to be a thriving, modernizing country.
They say one picture is worth a thousands. Here are 59 photographs of Afghanistan before the wars. It was a country many of us loved and found beautiful and compelling.
http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2013/01/28/podlich-afghanistan-1960...
I recommend people also seek out photos of the university in Kabul in the 1960s. Look at all the young women in modern western dress relishing the chance to get a college education. Compare that with the situation of women today after the United States arrived to "save them" from the Taliban which it had originally created and financed.
Please explore what Afghanistan (and particularly what Kabul) was before two foreign powers invaded.
Americans and the West in general need desperately to see firsthand the effects of their interventions into other countries.
These "before" photographs will surprise many people and show graphically what has been lost in the wars against Afghanistan.
3
The US bet wrong when it chose Karzai. I have an Afghan friend who claims to have been in the room at the time and advised against him but was told "that decision has been made." Had Ghani been supported would things have been different? Moot point now. I worked for him in 2003 and know what the US thought then: smart, abrasive, independent, hard to work with. His big fear at the time: Afghanistan would become a failed, 'narco state' now would appear to be real if not already true. Meanwhile, Karzai's often invoked complaint regarding sovereignty is more of a defense against any potential infringement of power: any reform - living wage for civil servants would be a start - is tied in knots by those pulling the strings. Small bribes are endemic with the Afghan culture. We call it corruption, they call it 'baksheesh'. To prolong the reform process is to maintain money flowing in and most probably flowing out - as rumor would have it - on pallets from Kabul airport. Can Ghani change this? Not until he can install a merit-based selection and adequately paid civil service.
1
Afghanistan is a deadly trap, one we gladly walked into. We forgot the lessons the British were taught in the 1800s and the Russians in the twentieth century. Our involvement in Afghanistan is similar to our involvement in Vietnam. The famous words "Butt Out" is what our foreign policy should be. Remember the Monroe Doctrine? We told Europe to butt out of our hemispheric business and leave us alone. We should do the same with Afghanistan and butt out. Let those experts at the State Department to find more positive things to do than create trouble in the world.
This is all about the money, the american money, keep it pouring into our select pockets and keep your nose out of our business.
4
Let's see, $686 Billion spent for the war, 2,325 US military dead so far, 20,000+ soldiers wounded, and THIS is what we have to show for it??? Had we committed that amount of money, time and talent here at home we could have:
Ended Homelessness
Ended Hunger
Repaired our Roads, Bridges & Sewer Systems
Repaired every broken school in the US
Jump started our broken economy
Cared for our seniors
Eliminated the maintenance backlog at our national parks
Given a scholarship to every senior in the US who wanted to go to college or additional training.
And on and on and on.
Even today we are shipping pallets of money (literally) to corrupt governments in the Middle East. We are making a choice, we are saying that corrupt despots in the Middle East are more valuable than our own citizens. Enough! It is time to come home and help OUR people, repair OUR economy, improve OUR lives. Leave that rat-hole called the Middle East to their own fate.
Ended Homelessness
Ended Hunger
Repaired our Roads, Bridges & Sewer Systems
Repaired every broken school in the US
Jump started our broken economy
Cared for our seniors
Eliminated the maintenance backlog at our national parks
Given a scholarship to every senior in the US who wanted to go to college or additional training.
And on and on and on.
Even today we are shipping pallets of money (literally) to corrupt governments in the Middle East. We are making a choice, we are saying that corrupt despots in the Middle East are more valuable than our own citizens. Enough! It is time to come home and help OUR people, repair OUR economy, improve OUR lives. Leave that rat-hole called the Middle East to their own fate.
5
We, the good-ole-US of A, have been played masterfully by the 'backward' peoples of Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Pakistan...etc., and to the enrichment of their elites and warlords. The only American 'exceptionalism' is our utter waste of treasure and soldiers/marines because of our insouciance, ignorance, and arrogance. In other words: exceptional stupidity.
15
>>>>
"The Afghans are a brave, hardy, and independent race; they follow pastoral or agricultural occupations only, eschewing trade and commerce, which they contemptuously resign to Hindus, and to other inhabitants of towns. With them, war is an excitement and relief from the monotonous occupation of industrial pursuits".
Friedrich Engels, 1857
Good luck with that.
"The Afghans are a brave, hardy, and independent race; they follow pastoral or agricultural occupations only, eschewing trade and commerce, which they contemptuously resign to Hindus, and to other inhabitants of towns. With them, war is an excitement and relief from the monotonous occupation of industrial pursuits".
Friedrich Engels, 1857
Good luck with that.
9
Nice selection, Prometheus. I haven't seen anyone cite this for a while.
Some of my favorite observations along this line were penned by 20 year old Winston Churchill in his early memoir of fighting Afs in the Malakand.
Some of my favorite observations along this line were penned by 20 year old Winston Churchill in his early memoir of fighting Afs in the Malakand.
2
Muslim majority countries are always in "chaos", they lurch from one humanitarian crisis, uprising, and terrorist acts to the next.
There is no end to it, because the cause IS their culture.
No amount of sympathy or foreign aid can change that. Worse, as has been shown time and again, it only makes it worse, allowing the people to live in denial about the source of their problems, which is themselves.
There is no end to it, because the cause IS their culture.
No amount of sympathy or foreign aid can change that. Worse, as has been shown time and again, it only makes it worse, allowing the people to live in denial about the source of their problems, which is themselves.
6
That is cheap denial of own fault, mistakes, and stupidity.
1
Oman, Indonesia, Malaysia are not in "chaos" --- just to name a few mainstream Muslim countries.
Some of the most "chaotic" countries are Christian countries in Africa.
Latin America has produce a lot of national "chaos" over the last century. Almost all Catholics.
Donald Trump (a man of no religion and no culture) threatens to bring "chaos" to America.
Time to retire your theory FSML
Some of the most "chaotic" countries are Christian countries in Africa.
Latin America has produce a lot of national "chaos" over the last century. Almost all Catholics.
Donald Trump (a man of no religion and no culture) threatens to bring "chaos" to America.
Time to retire your theory FSML
3
The HOURLY cost for our continuing our involvement in Afghanistan is $4,000,000. That's $96 million a day...$3 billion a month and $36 billion a year. It's a good thing we don't have any problems needing attention here at home.
9
Another foreign policy success to hang on the Bush-Obama Administrations. Karzai is correct. We are the devils in the dance. We have no business trying to run Afghanistan. We can't even run our own country. But here's the kicker--Afghanistan is not now, nor ever has been, an existential threat to the US--not even when it harbored al Qaeda training camps.
The only threat that Afghanistan poses to the Constitution that US service members are sworn to protect and defend is the cover it gives for our warmongers to run riot. But that's our fault, not Afghanistan's.
No worries. Hillary will get us out of Afghanistan. Just like her predecessor was going to get us out of Afghanistan. That's surely what her inclination to "muscular military interventionism" presages, no?
The only threat that Afghanistan poses to the Constitution that US service members are sworn to protect and defend is the cover it gives for our warmongers to run riot. But that's our fault, not Afghanistan's.
No worries. Hillary will get us out of Afghanistan. Just like her predecessor was going to get us out of Afghanistan. That's surely what her inclination to "muscular military interventionism" presages, no?
4
Karzai was never a leader, cowering against his protectors On 5 December 2001, near a little village hut, peeing his pants, figuratively. He has never donated, but continues to suck the blood of Taleb and Pashto, and Americans.
5
Sounds like a good Bush man to me. Wow just think about all the great things accomplished by Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush.
8
A 21 year old Marine of my acquaintance lost both of his legs to an IED the first month he was deployed in Afghanistan.
And we read this, this mockery of a functioning government. We have lost thousands of our troops there - for what?
And we read this, this mockery of a functioning government. We have lost thousands of our troops there - for what?
21
So the weapons and munitions industry can make hay, support politicians on both sides of the aisle, and do it with our tax dollars...
6
The politicians who have transferred billions of US taxpayer dollars to Afghanistan should be held accountable.
15
As well as Karzai, his family and all corrupt leaders in both countries.
5
Simple equation = first world nations cannot accomplish ANYTHING in countries with large groups still referred to as 'tribes'.
21
Karzai was a Bush/cheney pick to lead Afghanistan and as we all know they're so good at picking leaders of countries they invaded - just look at Malaki in Iraq and the damage he did in alienating Sunnis before he was belatedly kicked out.
Karzai thinks that Afghanistan can manage without US air support which he calls counterproductive. As if.
Karzai thinks that Afghanistan can manage without US air support which he calls counterproductive. As if.
8
Every article I read about Afghanistan makes me doubt it is worth the loss of 1 American life or the expenditure of $1 in taxpayer money.
18
Our country should completely abandon all efforts in Afghanistan, covert and above-board, and completely withdraw all presence except for an embassy. Spend all of the savings on our own citizens and our national infrastructure.
15
Afghanistan isn't known as the graveyard of nations for nothing. We made a mistake going into that region and now we're stuck. Thousands of lives lost, billions spent, and we're still at it. We learn nothing from history, both in that region and in Vietnam (remember what happened to the French?). There's something fundamentally wrong with us and our leaders. When another generation passes, and memories fade, we're just as likely to repeat these mistakes.
7
A majority of Americans supported the Iraq War, as much as they would like everyone to forget that (we have not). Notably, few of those supporters came of age during the Vietnam War.
What is 'wrong' with those who supported this war is that without a military draft and a tax increase to pay for it, they had no skin in the game, so why not? Everything is 'free', right?
What is 'wrong' with those who supported this war is that without a military draft and a tax increase to pay for it, they had no skin in the game, so why not? Everything is 'free', right?
4
Mr. Karzai, has always blames USA for his problems while cashing on the US aid personally profiting from it.
Mayor of Kabul or a man who only ruled 50 miles around the capital failed to bring stability to Afghanistan, he is widely known for corruption along his brother(s) while masses suffered.
An ethnic Pashtun who is widely disliked by UZBEK and Tajik minorities is still reason for Afghan crisis, he is creating hurdles for Presiden Ghani's government to fight the Taliban. He will be back in power after a short stint by Abdulla Abdulla and that will be the beginning of the end of any chances of peace in his homeland.
Mayor of Kabul or a man who only ruled 50 miles around the capital failed to bring stability to Afghanistan, he is widely known for corruption along his brother(s) while masses suffered.
An ethnic Pashtun who is widely disliked by UZBEK and Tajik minorities is still reason for Afghan crisis, he is creating hurdles for Presiden Ghani's government to fight the Taliban. He will be back in power after a short stint by Abdulla Abdulla and that will be the beginning of the end of any chances of peace in his homeland.
6
What's Karzai up to? Stealing money, for his tribe, his clan, his family, himself. And why not? He wants to buy a mansion on Lake Geneva. Who better to finance it than Uncle Sugar?
What they all do.
What they all do.
6
An Afghan taxi driver in Salzburg recently explained to me that the US is not in Afghanistan for the Afghans - but for itself. The next day, President Obama announced that the US will leave behind 3,000 more troops in Afghanistan than originally planned.
Thinking about the tax-driver’s comment, Afghanistan shares a significant length of border with nuclear armed Pakistan and nuclear uncertain Iran. Then there’s China. Could be the taxi driver’s correct. We’re there for our interests, not those of the Afghans.
(A nod to that tax-driver for making it to the West and for mastering some English while working in a German speaking country. A nod also to Austria for allowing him to do so.)
Thinking about the tax-driver’s comment, Afghanistan shares a significant length of border with nuclear armed Pakistan and nuclear uncertain Iran. Then there’s China. Could be the taxi driver’s correct. We’re there for our interests, not those of the Afghans.
(A nod to that tax-driver for making it to the West and for mastering some English while working in a German speaking country. A nod also to Austria for allowing him to do so.)
5
All nations act in their own interest.
America, Russia, Pakistan, China and all the rest.
The sad thing about our 15 year war in Afghanistan is that we have not carefully examined just what American interest we are serving.
Biden used to push that question. But State, Defense and (yes) Obama sidelined him.
We THINK we are in Afghanistan for American interest. But nobody can articulate them in a way that a school bus driver in Kansas could understand and believe.
America, Russia, Pakistan, China and all the rest.
The sad thing about our 15 year war in Afghanistan is that we have not carefully examined just what American interest we are serving.
Biden used to push that question. But State, Defense and (yes) Obama sidelined him.
We THINK we are in Afghanistan for American interest. But nobody can articulate them in a way that a school bus driver in Kansas could understand and believe.
6
The taxi driver is lucky he had a gullible American for a passenger, rather than a relative of one of the many Americans who have been killed or wounded there, while he fled and looked after himself.
4
The implication here is that the US has something to gain in Afghanistan other than preventing the creation of a sanctuary for terrorists bent on attacking us. What else could the US be after, aside from defending itself against attack. Afghanistan a desolate country with a localized, agrarian economy and, frankly, not much else worth fighting for. Seems to me Obama is trying to use the minimum amount of force possible to keep the wolves at bay.
2
Seriously. We need a form of government in which Americans can vote directly to withdraw troops, advisors, and all military hardware from a foreign country. It seems we can't vote for representatives with the backbone to do it. Some are afraid of admitting defeat. Others have defense contractors in their districts to pander to and get campaign donations from. Others still have to beat their chests and rattle their sabres to keep the warrior class happy. Our military involvement in the Middle East has gone on far, far too long with zero benefits, except to provide jobs for workers in the military-industrial complex and big salaries for executives. I would rather we just pay all those workers to do something constructive at home. How about that infrastructure we need rebuilding?
13
To think that the Afghanistan wish to government themselves like it was still tenth century there is little we can do to help them.
4
We have a presidential candidate who might propel the US back to the 10th Century as well.
That said, I agree that we should leave Afghanistan to the Afghans.
Let them choose the century they prefer.
I just don't want The Donald to choose my century for me.
That said, I agree that we should leave Afghanistan to the Afghans.
Let them choose the century they prefer.
I just don't want The Donald to choose my century for me.
5
You got that wrong - Surely, you must mean Hillary!
Look: Donald was the one who spoke out AGAINST all that warring
- he said, it would be better to use all that potential to repair things in the USA!
Look: Donald was the one who spoke out AGAINST all that warring
- he said, it would be better to use all that potential to repair things in the USA!
How many of our soldiers are dying for guys like him. This is a disgrace and all at the fault of Bush, not helped by Clinton, Kerry or Obama who never knew how to get us out of this mess.
5
Clearly the largest money pit we have ever thrown our blood and treasure into. Karzai is not much better than the Taliban. One group worships an archaic version of Islam. Karzai worships the golden goose.
11
Changing Afghanistan was always a long shot. We had to depend on the incompetent and corrupt Karzai. We had to depend on the drug lords. We had to depend on the Pakistanis, who are even more incompetent and corrupt than Karzai, especially Musharraf.
But when Bush abandoned our troops in Afghanistan in 2003 with no mission, no leadership and no strategy, in order to launch Bush's senseless invasion of Iraq, the Taliban's eventual victory and return to power were guaranteed. There is no doubt about it.
But when Bush abandoned our troops in Afghanistan in 2003 with no mission, no leadership and no strategy, in order to launch Bush's senseless invasion of Iraq, the Taliban's eventual victory and return to power were guaranteed. There is no doubt about it.
15
Pakistan's Musharraf is somewhat corrupt, but not, by stretch of the imagination, is he incompetent. And to suggest that he is more incompetent than Karzai suggests you don't know anything at all about the region.
1
If you want to build pipelines and take mineral resources then you need to pay a reverse tax, just as the oil companies fund in Alaska. And you need to pay it directly to the people, not to a bunch of politicians and not to warlords and poppy farmers.
1
Mr. Karzai was almost the single factor (along with Pakistani support for the Taliban) in the inability of the American military to win in Afghanistan. Obama and his team were very relieved when his rule came to an end and the less corrupt Ghani came to power. In addition to being possibly the most corrupt ruler in the world, he is manic depressive and sometimes doesn't take his medicine.
This article, in failing to mention these things, is ridiculous.
See Carl Bernstein's book "Obama's Wars."
This article, in failing to mention these things, is ridiculous.
See Carl Bernstein's book "Obama's Wars."
5
We need to remember that we (the USA) basically installed him as President. The "we" is , of course, the Bush administration. Another legacy of the last Republican president.
2
Both Karzai and Pakistan made things more difficult for the US Army in Pakistan.
But they are not the reason we have lost the Afghan War.
America lost the Afghan War the day we set out to re-construct a new nation that did not want to be re-constructed.
The Taliban have been nasty flies in the ointment, but the greatest enemy of America in Afghanistan since 2001 has been America.
Karzai is but a footnote in the long, sad, pointless story.
But they are not the reason we have lost the Afghan War.
America lost the Afghan War the day we set out to re-construct a new nation that did not want to be re-constructed.
The Taliban have been nasty flies in the ointment, but the greatest enemy of America in Afghanistan since 2001 has been America.
Karzai is but a footnote in the long, sad, pointless story.
2
I found his comments on the Taliban interesting. They weren't quite sympathetic, but definitely not what I expected. He seems more worried about the American presence in Afghanistan than growing Taliban encroachment.
5
A puppet with power trying to become a puppeteer. A man without morals or ethics. Had the opportunity to make Afghanistan great with the money injection from USA and only he and his family became trich
14
Our country has supported Karzai for years with no result. We are still entrenched in that part of the world with little result other than money in the pockets of people like Karzai and our own military industrial complex. And of course we have lost too many good American men and women as well as all the loses and chaos in those countries. It is time to stop this nonsense.
35
One of our biggest mistakes. Why he's not in prison is beyond me.
3
By Afghan standards he hasn't broken many laws.
Forget about poppy production. Nobody goes to jail for that.
He is a bad politician who puts self and family ahead of nation.
We have some like that right here is the US of A.
Forget about poppy production. Nobody goes to jail for that.
He is a bad politician who puts self and family ahead of nation.
We have some like that right here is the US of A.
4
Mr. Karzai - the Mayor of Kabul has done immense damage to Afghanistan which the present elected President is trying to recover from. At this time he is again manipulating to remain relevant.
5
He's stolen so much of our money that he should be invited to move closer to his bank in Switzerland and just disappear. Otherwise, isn't he a problem the CIA could take care of and stop his meddling?
2
In retrospect, we really shouldn't have taken the unlimited mileage option on the rental Karzai we obtained in Kabul...
2
Karzai...are we still paying him. Do we still provide his security? A Cheney creation that should never have been relevant.
Destabilize his successor? There are rumors his successor never had a chance to stabilize!
You would think Obama and Clinton would have learned something from the debacle that is Afghanistan but nooooo they are cheerfully inserting the US in more regime change adventures. Well it keeps the corporations and the Saudis happy!
Destabilize his successor? There are rumors his successor never had a chance to stabilize!
You would think Obama and Clinton would have learned something from the debacle that is Afghanistan but nooooo they are cheerfully inserting the US in more regime change adventures. Well it keeps the corporations and the Saudis happy!
5
I detest Dick Cheney, but I was at the Bonn event that launched Karzai. His backers were actually non-neocons from both State and CIA. Cheney was pre-occupied with the other war where he was sponsoring guys much worse than Karzai.
Any dirt that's fair I am happy to pile on Dick Cheney. But he gets a pass on the Karzai choice.
Just goes to show that all sorts of folks can be wrong.
Any dirt that's fair I am happy to pile on Dick Cheney. But he gets a pass on the Karzai choice.
Just goes to show that all sorts of folks can be wrong.
6
At one time, the Afghans ruled Asia. Ghaznavi, Herat and Ghor, were the centers of immense wealth and culture. As late as in 19th century, the Brits were sent packing. Back then sword was the power. After that the gun made the all these colonial powers. Now all of them are vanquished and biting the dust. So, this wheel of karma turning is the only constant thing. Bad karma never goes unpunished. If people bear this in mind, this world would be a lot happier.
That must have been thousands of years ago. Empires come and go and I hope the Afghan "empire" goes soon.
1
This man is evil.
8
I know the guy. He isn't so much evil as SMALL. Small minded, small hearted and intellectually limited.
He has a very thin skin, like Trump.
He doesn't play well with other kids in the sandbox.
If you don't like "small", then "pathetic" is a useful alternative.
Of the two now running the country, neither is fantastic, but Abdullah Abdullah is smarter and (by Afghan standards) more honest.
He also has some roots in the country. His co-ruler spend his adult live in Bethesda and Chevy Chase.
He has a very thin skin, like Trump.
He doesn't play well with other kids in the sandbox.
If you don't like "small", then "pathetic" is a useful alternative.
Of the two now running the country, neither is fantastic, but Abdullah Abdullah is smarter and (by Afghan standards) more honest.
He also has some roots in the country. His co-ruler spend his adult live in Bethesda and Chevy Chase.
4
Ah, the characters the US has gotten in bed with in pursuing it's Middle East "policy": Karzai, Chalabi, and various "moderate" extremists in Iraq, Libya, Egypt, and of course Afghanistan... Each of THEM has gotten insanely rich, personally, while the areas flounder and the US blunders on doing the same thing over and over again...
Our efforts at meddling, destabilizing and rebuilding nations for your own ends, and picking characters to support are making things worse, costing us $millions, and costing thousand and thousands of lives... And to WHAT END?
Can't we EVER learn?
Our efforts at meddling, destabilizing and rebuilding nations for your own ends, and picking characters to support are making things worse, costing us $millions, and costing thousand and thousands of lives... And to WHAT END?
Can't we EVER learn?
37
If the Afghanistan constitution allows so and the Afghan people support him, what's wrong with Hamid Karzai's another bid for power? For, once the US has decided to quit Afghanistan what to it who returns to power, of course, with popular mandate. Moreover, was Karzai not the US puppet once before he fell out?
1
I don't care what the Afganis do but I won't want to support it or protect it. You write as if Karzi is just another pol. He was plucked from obscurity by Cheney and put in power and giving hundreds of millions of $$$$$$.
The US needs to get out of the ME. We also need to let Karzi pay for this own security. If the Afganis want him, fine. They can protect him!
The US needs to get out of the ME. We also need to let Karzi pay for this own security. If the Afganis want him, fine. They can protect him!
5
Hamid Karzai is a corrupt twit and a ungrateful one at that. He bit the hand that fed him, protected him and put him in the Preidential House. He spread corruption openly and blamed the West when they pointed out the corruption, specially of his brohter and his family.
He even openly admits knowing about corruption in this interview and accepting it giving the excuse that he had to accept it so he could hang on to the power.
This is a small man without ideas or imagination. He is a decrpit Tribal War Lord and no more. He won't let go till he is either put in jail by the current Government or killed. Not that I wish it. But he is a destabilizing menace to the country. He is nauseating.
He even openly admits knowing about corruption in this interview and accepting it giving the excuse that he had to accept it so he could hang on to the power.
This is a small man without ideas or imagination. He is a decrpit Tribal War Lord and no more. He won't let go till he is either put in jail by the current Government or killed. Not that I wish it. But he is a destabilizing menace to the country. He is nauseating.
20
2o comments
americans are trying harder to forget this rubble pile of their own making than they did vietnam
and this one aint over by a long shot
another 20-50 years and youll git 'er done, as you like to say
2
The US government not only propped up Karzai, it, i.e., the Bush administration, chose Karzai to run Afghanistan. Actually, the impression that he's working to destabilize their government is a bit ironic, considering how destabilized and impotent our own government has been these years.
5
I have read a number of books on Afghanistan and all look unfavorably on Karzai's administration. Having said that, these books go on to say that the tribal culture in that country make it all but ungovernable.
4
Destabilize the Afghani government? Afghanistan has a government?
22
Interesting how Karzai, when in real power only could handle Kabul, but now seems to be in charge of the entire country. I've been there many times and think it is a beautiful country but everybody running a one-man-show.
5
Do any Americans understand that this is not a country--it is an ongoing criminal racket? As stated below, it is a primitive culture, a collection of tribes, a religious sinkhole of misogyny and hatred. We in the US (and NATO) have thrown away the live of 3,407 soldiers there. The same amount of money used in the Marshall plan after WWII has been thrown away on this country--much of it stolen by Karzai and the corrupt politicians/businessmen who toady up to whomever is in power. How many billions of dollars are sitting in Karzai's accounts in Dubai? Someone should start a criminal investigation. Follow the money, cut off his/their access to it. And see how fast peace would break out Of course, Pakistan is involved in this swindle, they have been since the beginning. And trusting ANYTHING Pakistan says or agrees to is just stupid. They have no concept of truth, only treachery. Over the past few years, we in Europe have seen thousands of these young Afghan men walk in here begging for asylum. Always the same stories, the same lies--Taliban killed my parents, criminals after me....ad nauseam. The vast majority of these men are from the middle class in Afghanistan and are just trying to work the same asylum scheme as the other illegal migrants--though many threw away their passports and said they were Syrian. And, I understand the NONE of the senior Afghan leadership has family living in Afghanistan-so these guys are REALLY committed. End this swindle now.
21
In answer to your question, yes, there are many Americans, including several in "other" government agencies, that not only understand, but are indeed part of the criminal racket to which you refer. The supply chains were created a long time ago, and are now virtually impossible to destroy.
1
To Bramha,
Where do you get your information? Why do you claim that Americans who work in "other" government agencies are part of an Afghan criminal racket? What are these "other" government agencies? Are you pushing a conspiracy theory with no evidence to back it up?
Where do you get your information? Why do you claim that Americans who work in "other" government agencies are part of an Afghan criminal racket? What are these "other" government agencies? Are you pushing a conspiracy theory with no evidence to back it up?
Karzi is a corrupt stooge of the United States.
2
Before the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan it was a poor, isolated Dictatorship where the Kabul government had little reach into the lives of its mostly rural inhabitants. Drugs and foreign aid were the only revenue streams in an economy where most farmers consumed most of what they produced (other than poppies). Justice and law-and-order we local matters handled by tribal elders. The institutions of the state were minimal.
American held sway in the South. The Russians held sway in the North.
After 9/11 the US correctly decided that it had to extirpate Al Queda from its rented home in the Afghan Mountains. We accomplished this extirpation quite quickly and quite brilliantly. With CIA paramilitary guys on horseback (with radios) accompanying Northern Alliance fighters (on foot and horseback) and with the help of B-52s who bombed fleeing Taliban, we chased the Taliban into their home in the South, chased Al Queda into Pakistan, and left Kabul in Afghan warlord hands.
This is the moment when we should have patted ourselves on the back. Shaken hands with the Northern Alliance Warlords. Wished them well. And gone home.
Did we go home? No, of course not. We decided to "build a nation". To "develop" Afghanistan. To foster Constitutional Democracy.
After fifteen years of American blood and treasure here is no "nation", no "development" an no "constitutional democracy".
Blame American hubris and blame American ignorance.
American held sway in the South. The Russians held sway in the North.
After 9/11 the US correctly decided that it had to extirpate Al Queda from its rented home in the Afghan Mountains. We accomplished this extirpation quite quickly and quite brilliantly. With CIA paramilitary guys on horseback (with radios) accompanying Northern Alliance fighters (on foot and horseback) and with the help of B-52s who bombed fleeing Taliban, we chased the Taliban into their home in the South, chased Al Queda into Pakistan, and left Kabul in Afghan warlord hands.
This is the moment when we should have patted ourselves on the back. Shaken hands with the Northern Alliance Warlords. Wished them well. And gone home.
Did we go home? No, of course not. We decided to "build a nation". To "develop" Afghanistan. To foster Constitutional Democracy.
After fifteen years of American blood and treasure here is no "nation", no "development" an no "constitutional democracy".
Blame American hubris and blame American ignorance.
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youre forgetting th real reason america persists in afg
its a mineral treasure house, and a gateway to th ocean of ail beneath th caspian sea
its not ideological, its financial
3
Sadly, this is a great myth. The Soviet geologists did a herculean survey of the mineral potential in Afghanistan. What they found is that (as in most highly mountainous areas) there are indeed many mineral deposits.
But the Soviets deemed them not worthy of exploitation because of the total absence of infrastructure.
Silly guys in the US Army "rediscovered" these minerals with a study by the USGS.
American and international mining companies took one look and laughed. There are comparable deposits in many hard-t0-mine mountains around the world which they also don't exploit.
One Australian mining concern said that they "might get around to Afghanistan in about 150 years. After better alternatives had been fully exploited"
Afghanistan will continue to live on poppies and foreign aid.
Realistically we can expect the foreign aid (US and other) to decline, so poppies will increase.
And as for Afghanistan being a "gateway" to the Caspian Sea, what maps have you been reading?
If peace ever comes to the whole region, Afghanistan might get some transit revenues from gas pipelines flowing through their territory.
But nobody will build those pipelines on Afghan territory under present condition.
The USG is not staying in Afghanistan for the minerals. We are staying there because we can't admit our past folly.
I had truly expected Obama to get us all the way out--- as Biden kept urging him to do.
But our generals can't let go.
But the Soviets deemed them not worthy of exploitation because of the total absence of infrastructure.
Silly guys in the US Army "rediscovered" these minerals with a study by the USGS.
American and international mining companies took one look and laughed. There are comparable deposits in many hard-t0-mine mountains around the world which they also don't exploit.
One Australian mining concern said that they "might get around to Afghanistan in about 150 years. After better alternatives had been fully exploited"
Afghanistan will continue to live on poppies and foreign aid.
Realistically we can expect the foreign aid (US and other) to decline, so poppies will increase.
And as for Afghanistan being a "gateway" to the Caspian Sea, what maps have you been reading?
If peace ever comes to the whole region, Afghanistan might get some transit revenues from gas pipelines flowing through their territory.
But nobody will build those pipelines on Afghan territory under present condition.
The USG is not staying in Afghanistan for the minerals. We are staying there because we can't admit our past folly.
I had truly expected Obama to get us all the way out--- as Biden kept urging him to do.
But our generals can't let go.
10
Very good analysis, John. We shold have patted ourselves on the back and left this rat hoe. The course of history would have been different. Pakistan will ALWAYS be a lying, deceitful neighbor. Russia has no interest in the place. The ruling class is only interested in stealing whatever aid/development money sent their way. We should really do some soul searching about our continuing involvement in this rat hole. That we have to deal with creeps like Karzai is probably a given. But I would assume the CIA or someone has done some analysis...is there really any mineral wealth there? Oil in the caspian sea? If the answers are no or I do not know--leave this people to their misery. They have earned it. They are not worth another American limb, another dollar. Tell your congressman to end this swindle.
3
I understand the perception of the author, but the article cannot capture how different the Taliban is from an ideological rival. Everyone represents interests in a place where resources remain scarce. The rest of the world wants stability to build pipelines and ignored social conditions that generate strife.
3
So much for nation-building.
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Afghanistan is a very primitive culture, a collection of tribes , not a country, definitely not a country, impervious to our effort to change their ways. We have done far more damage to our country by our failed intervention over many many years than Al Qaeda did on 9/11.
We should abandon that area toute de suite. It will return to the pre 9/11 status as if we weren't there. As for us it will take years to recover.
As a result of our involvement Al Qaeda has metastasized, ISIS created and other terrorist groups have formed.
We should abandon that area toute de suite. It will return to the pre 9/11 status as if we weren't there. As for us it will take years to recover.
As a result of our involvement Al Qaeda has metastasized, ISIS created and other terrorist groups have formed.
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Primitive it is not and there is no reason they should have to change to suit the interests of other nations. Their culture is thousands of years old and has survived many attempts at conquer and colonization. Corruption is rampant because the US and others overwhelm the country and its traditional institutions with too much money expecting instant change. We need to get out of Afghanistan and let them solve their problems on their own.
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BTudert wrote: "Corruption is rampant because the US and others overwhelm the country"
No. Corruption, drug dealing, sex-slavery and misogyny were (and still are) deeply embedded in the medieval culture of this country. Yes they sucked up all the money and weapons they could from a gullible Bush and Obama. But to place the blame on the US, or to state that this corruption is something new, is a misguided belief.
No. Corruption, drug dealing, sex-slavery and misogyny were (and still are) deeply embedded in the medieval culture of this country. Yes they sucked up all the money and weapons they could from a gullible Bush and Obama. But to place the blame on the US, or to state that this corruption is something new, is a misguided belief.
2
Karzai: Once a crook. Always a crook.
Why do Americans have to die for this corrupt, incompetent clown?
Why do Americans have to die for this corrupt, incompetent clown?
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Profit with no consideration of the ramifications of their actions.
2
As with any middle eastern article appearing in the Times, I question who is writing it and what ax does he have to grind. Mr. Ashraf Ghani came in as a naive do-gooder who thought peace would break out because he had an open heart and a open mind. He did not understand the nature of the Taliban or the Pakistani deep state which sponsors it. He tried to make peace deals with Pakistan but he did not understand Pakistan may make peace deals but it has no intention of changing its policies. With Ghani floundering, it is natural for the Afghan power brokers to look elsewhere.
5
A bad apple. Why isn't he basking in the sun in Dubai, where it's safe?
3
Just one of the totally corrupt puppets who have been propped up by US dollars and military support over the past few decades. Like most, he stole millions of US tax dollars in the process. Ironic indeed to read about the ongoing mess we created in Afghanistan during the same week while US newspapers express shock-----SHOCK! that Putin might be trying to influence US elections. One more exhibit of actual US foreign policy: Do as we say, not as we do.
7
Good points, but the existential problem of Afghanistan is corruption and tribalism. they need a real man who really can mobilise the men on horse to fight tribalism, Taliban, corruption. they need a military to do this, a military with a national pride.
3
There is one such man. General Rashid Dostum an Uzbek warlord and part of what is generally known as the Northern Warlord Alliance.
Dostum is effective, efficient, mission driven and gets things done.
He is also brutal and without a shred of respect for the rule of law (other than Dostum's law)
I have worked with most of the larger warlords and Dostum is the "get the trains arriving on time" guy --- if there were any trains.
My sense of a best realistic option for Afghanistan is that it devolves into two de facto states.
A Northern State governed by the Northern Alliance Warlords (probably with Dostum at the center) and a Southern State more loosely governed by a squabbling group of Pashtoon Warlords.
The Northern alliance would have no trouble driving the Taliban out of the North. The Pashtoon warlords would come to some sort of loose accommodation with the Taliban that would be messy but better than the current status quo.
India and Iran would be the big external players in the Northern Afghan State.
Perfidious Pakistan would be the big external dog in the South.
America, if it has any sense, will step aside and let the stewpot cook on its own.
None of these players like Arabs, and ISIL will get no welcome at all in the North and very little in the South. With the Paks as southern kingmakers, we can leave it to their intelligence services to snuff out ISIL activity.
Dostum is effective, efficient, mission driven and gets things done.
He is also brutal and without a shred of respect for the rule of law (other than Dostum's law)
I have worked with most of the larger warlords and Dostum is the "get the trains arriving on time" guy --- if there were any trains.
My sense of a best realistic option for Afghanistan is that it devolves into two de facto states.
A Northern State governed by the Northern Alliance Warlords (probably with Dostum at the center) and a Southern State more loosely governed by a squabbling group of Pashtoon Warlords.
The Northern alliance would have no trouble driving the Taliban out of the North. The Pashtoon warlords would come to some sort of loose accommodation with the Taliban that would be messy but better than the current status quo.
India and Iran would be the big external players in the Northern Afghan State.
Perfidious Pakistan would be the big external dog in the South.
America, if it has any sense, will step aside and let the stewpot cook on its own.
None of these players like Arabs, and ISIL will get no welcome at all in the North and very little in the South. With the Paks as southern kingmakers, we can leave it to their intelligence services to snuff out ISIL activity.
22
The existential problem of Afghanistan is Islam, just as in most of the Middle East.
That enslaving 50% of the population will not lead to a thriving society can hardly be news.
That enslaving 50% of the population will not lead to a thriving society can hardly be news.
Afghanistan has been a complete failure. The waste of nearly 2500 US KIA's and thousand wounded reflect a decision which was in line with the invasion of Iraq.
Our presence in Afghanistan is equal to nearly four (4) times the length of time of World War II.
Paktia/Khost Provinces-2003-4
Our presence in Afghanistan is equal to nearly four (4) times the length of time of World War II.
Paktia/Khost Provinces-2003-4
9
Mr. Karzai is a corrupt Afghan tribal leader the U.S. supported for many years. He was linked to the opium trade and other criminal activity. President Obama approved suitcases full of cash the CIA funneled to Karzai - estimates are in the hundreds of millions of dollars. He's a despicable person, as are most of the Afghan tribal leaders - they're corrupt and could care less about their country. Karzai cares only about himself - we should never have gone to the god forsaken country - it's a third world developing nation mired in the drug trade. It's the world capital for opium and now provides China with heroin, finding the Chinese have an insatiable desire for the drug.
5
As someone who has worked for the US Government in Afghanistan on and off since the 1970s I can assure you that the suitcases of cash began arriving soon after the deal in Bonn to install Karzai.
Karzai and many Afghan warlords had been receiving "suitcases of cash" or bank transfers into their Dubai bank accounts for almost seven years before Obama became president.
Obama continued the W Bush administration pattern of paying Karzai (and others) while getting very little in return.
But you can't lay Karzai at Obama's doorstep.
The Bush administration, in its wisdom, decided that the best man to back in Afghanistan was an English speaking, Indian educated, Poppy cultivating, minor figure in a major Pashtoon tribe.
This was on a par with our brilliant decision to back a French Speaking, suit-wearing, Catholic to lead a Vietnamese speaking, sandal wearing, Buddhist nation (ngo dinh diem).
At least in the case of Diem we recognized our error after a few years and arranged to have him assassinate in his bed in Saigon.
With Karzai we just kept on betting on a losing horse year-afte-year.
Karzai and many Afghan warlords had been receiving "suitcases of cash" or bank transfers into their Dubai bank accounts for almost seven years before Obama became president.
Obama continued the W Bush administration pattern of paying Karzai (and others) while getting very little in return.
But you can't lay Karzai at Obama's doorstep.
The Bush administration, in its wisdom, decided that the best man to back in Afghanistan was an English speaking, Indian educated, Poppy cultivating, minor figure in a major Pashtoon tribe.
This was on a par with our brilliant decision to back a French Speaking, suit-wearing, Catholic to lead a Vietnamese speaking, sandal wearing, Buddhist nation (ngo dinh diem).
At least in the case of Diem we recognized our error after a few years and arranged to have him assassinate in his bed in Saigon.
With Karzai we just kept on betting on a losing horse year-afte-year.
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