In our home the kids were instructed to go back outside and play some ......"you are not dirty enough yet".
4
I blame Larry David for our collective germ phobia.
12
When my husband and I were first married, he had terrible seasonal allergies. Every year he had been taking more and more over-the-counter medications to combat all of the irritating allergy symptoms (pun intended). I, on the other hand, have never had allergies. I am also a "label" reader. I don't buy any food with additives (and try to buy organic as often as I can) or cleaning products with extra chemicals or any added scent; and we don't use any commercial chemicals on the lawn or in the garden. Since being married to me, his allergies have gone--he rarely feels any symptoms at all when allergy season rolls around. And, significantly, we live in a very heavily wooded area full of oak and black birch, both of which are wind pollinated so sometimes you can see clouds of pollen which end up coating everything.
Also, we don't eat out that often; but when we do, sometimes I come home (or wake up the next day) all congested.
Also, we don't eat out that often; but when we do, sometimes I come home (or wake up the next day) all congested.
7
Well one of the articles I recommend most came from this very paper several years ago: Babies Know A Little Dirt is Good for You.
What we really need to take home from these articles is not anything new we need to do but what we need to stop doing. Stop preventing kids from getting dirty - what could be easier? Just yesterday I got a phone call from someone at the State Park where my daughter is attending a camp next week. She told me to make sure she wore clothes that she could get dirty in. Hello? I am sending her to a camp in the state park, not to finishing school!
[end of rant]
What we really need to take home from these articles is not anything new we need to do but what we need to stop doing. Stop preventing kids from getting dirty - what could be easier? Just yesterday I got a phone call from someone at the State Park where my daughter is attending a camp next week. She told me to make sure she wore clothes that she could get dirty in. Hello? I am sending her to a camp in the state park, not to finishing school!
[end of rant]
9
In one of the SE Asian ethnic groups - the Hmong I beleive - the healthy mother feeds her newborn a bit of her poo. Sharing those gut bugs can be a good thing.
4
I grew up in Lancaster County, PA, living write in front of a Mennonite farm. We bought our milk there and played there. My mother and I suffered from many allergies,even drinking farm mild and I do to this day. Thankfully, I now am medicated with allergy shots and other medicines, as needed.
3
My grandpa was an Amish dairy farmer with really bad hayfever and asthma.
7
A "cowshed dust" inhaler coming soon to your drug store to treat allergies and asthma !
4
According to the NEJM article, both the Amish and the Hutterites vaccinate their children.
13
The cause of allergy is unproven, yet experts agree it is most likely a combination of genetic predisposition and environmental trigger.
The Amish have a very narrow gene pool. They also do not vaccinate.
The hib vaccine given routinely since 1990 (when explosion of peanut allergy began), has a near identical molecular weight to peanut--creating confusion for our immune system and inadvertently sensitizing infants. Also additives in vitamin K routinely given to newborns can sensitize children to trigger their genetic predisposition to developing allergies. Many food products, including milk and soy (other top allergens) can be found as "inactive" ingredients in medicines given to babies--again sensitizing them way before they have ingested these foods. We need more research to look into these very real concerns.
(my farm raised, vaccinated child suffers from multiple anaphylactic food and resp. allergies.)
The Amish have a very narrow gene pool. They also do not vaccinate.
The hib vaccine given routinely since 1990 (when explosion of peanut allergy began), has a near identical molecular weight to peanut--creating confusion for our immune system and inadvertently sensitizing infants. Also additives in vitamin K routinely given to newborns can sensitize children to trigger their genetic predisposition to developing allergies. Many food products, including milk and soy (other top allergens) can be found as "inactive" ingredients in medicines given to babies--again sensitizing them way before they have ingested these foods. We need more research to look into these very real concerns.
(my farm raised, vaccinated child suffers from multiple anaphylactic food and resp. allergies.)
11
I have some very good friends who are Old Order Amish from Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.
As I got to know them and learn more about their history, faith and practices, one explained to me that farming not only helps the Amish maintain a large degree of separation from the greater world, but also that they believe "farming is the healthiest lifestyle in which to raise a family."
It seems the Amish were more right about this than they knew.
As I got to know them and learn more about their history, faith and practices, one explained to me that farming not only helps the Amish maintain a large degree of separation from the greater world, but also that they believe "farming is the healthiest lifestyle in which to raise a family."
It seems the Amish were more right about this than they knew.
22
My parents initiated this same study with a child of one, me, 40 years ago. Moving to 15 acres in rural CT, they decided to plant a large garden and got the bright idea of fertilizing it with a truckload of chicken manure. They also had the bright idea of conscripting their allergic son to shovel the manure into the garden. The result was miraculous: within 5 minutes my sneezing stopped and my sinuses cleared. My Dad said, "keep shoveling!"
24
What I take from this article are two things: One: We are making amazing headway in understanding our micro-world, and Two: We need to stop looking for artificial means to replicate the natural world. Let kids play in dirt. Unless there is fear of e-coli, perhaps you don't have to wash your hands before you eat.
The most ridiculous example of over-reaction is a spray that is being marketed that distributes a "dirty" mist so that your body is not antiseptic. Oh, forgot, that is a way to make money. Next, maybe dairy farmers can boost their income by holding "dirty" weekend retreats in their barns.
The most ridiculous example of over-reaction is a spray that is being marketed that distributes a "dirty" mist so that your body is not antiseptic. Oh, forgot, that is a way to make money. Next, maybe dairy farmers can boost their income by holding "dirty" weekend retreats in their barns.
14
Growing up with cats and dogs also serves, I believe, to help immunize children against animal allergies. Let your children play with animals and play in the dirt! Don't keep your house too clean!
17
Have they ever done a similar study of people in the Milk producing regions
of Vermont and Wisconsin? In Vermont milk is produced by many small farmers with barns right near their homes.
of Vermont and Wisconsin? In Vermont milk is produced by many small farmers with barns right near their homes.
13
I remember reading somewhere that some Russians take their babies to farms,
Sit the kid on the ground and let the baby crawl around, taste, whatever, to build immunity. Interesting how our medical community seems to have re-connected with the importance of the gut and the importance of bacteria
and microbial action. Too bad we've been trying to kill them off, good and bad, for 70 years or so...
Sit the kid on the ground and let the baby crawl around, taste, whatever, to build immunity. Interesting how our medical community seems to have re-connected with the importance of the gut and the importance of bacteria
and microbial action. Too bad we've been trying to kill them off, good and bad, for 70 years or so...
15
This is another example of first world cluelessness about infectious disease, because we've been so successful at eradicating a lot of them, especially in childhood.
Sure, allergies seem to be correlated to a more sterile environment, but a number of fatal childhood illnesses happen at negligible rates because of this environment.
Sure, let's not overdo the neat-freakness, but let's also realize that hygiene keeps our children alive. I would FAR rather have a child with allergies, than lose my child to infectious disease.
Sure, allergies seem to be correlated to a more sterile environment, but a number of fatal childhood illnesses happen at negligible rates because of this environment.
Sure, let's not overdo the neat-freakness, but let's also realize that hygiene keeps our children alive. I would FAR rather have a child with allergies, than lose my child to infectious disease.
13
Nice article, I enjoyed it--thank you.
13
Exposure. . . period!
1
So there is good reason why cows are considered sacred in India.
3
Time for a new chic and trendy social appertenance, cow-dust snuff.
2
An elaboration of the hygiene theory, known for decades now. The question is: how to overcome the negative impacts of the urban and pristine environments that most of us now live in?
1
Ironic that New Yorkers, who are among those doing their utmost to destroy Amish farmland through rampant real estate development in Lancaster County, PA, would be touting the wonders of these farms. Especially when you can plant hundreds of execrably tacky condos, retirement communities and townhomes in their midst...
10
Ah. That's why cows roam the streets of Indian subcontinent, from ancient times. Growing up, the cows came to your doorstep, to deliver daily milk.
I remember as a child in South Asia, my doctor mom periodically checked our eosinophil counts, which were always high. Turns out we played in the dirt barefoot, climbed trees and rolled in the grass. We had flourishing flora and fauna in our stomachs (microbiome), thanks to Enterobius vermicularis aka as pin worm or thread worm. We underwent deworming every 6 months, mainly to prevent Ascaris lumbricoides aka roundworms. Taenia solium aka Tapeworms were rare, we didn't comsume much pork and if we did, it was cooked thoroughly.
Did the study check for intestinal parasites?
I remember as a child in South Asia, my doctor mom periodically checked our eosinophil counts, which were always high. Turns out we played in the dirt barefoot, climbed trees and rolled in the grass. We had flourishing flora and fauna in our stomachs (microbiome), thanks to Enterobius vermicularis aka as pin worm or thread worm. We underwent deworming every 6 months, mainly to prevent Ascaris lumbricoides aka roundworms. Taenia solium aka Tapeworms were rare, we didn't comsume much pork and if we did, it was cooked thoroughly.
Did the study check for intestinal parasites?
2
One problem is simply linguistic. When I arrived in the US in 1975 I was stunned to hear most Americans refer to soil or loam as "dirt." The connotations are obvious; we're more likely to want to avoid something that's referred to as dirt. (On the same theme, would you prefer to spend time in a "garden" or a "yard?"
7
So we should encourage diversity in our society because you never know whose microbes you may need. Hmmm...
5
The Amish should bottle up and sell their barn dust to the sterilized city folk. If just breathing it was enough to help the mice, then this looks like an easy solution when you don't have a cow nearby to go roll around with.
Just "go outside and play" isn't enough if your "outside" is a busy city street, and the dust on it has car exhaust instead of cow microbes. It's not a matter of just getting dirty. You have to get dirty in the right stuff, and people in cities just don't have access to it unless they travel to a farm (which not everybody can do, at least not regularly). We need to bring the farm to the city, in the form of more petting zoos, country fairs, etc. where people can interact with animals and benefit from the right kind of dirt.
Just "go outside and play" isn't enough if your "outside" is a busy city street, and the dust on it has car exhaust instead of cow microbes. It's not a matter of just getting dirty. You have to get dirty in the right stuff, and people in cities just don't have access to it unless they travel to a farm (which not everybody can do, at least not regularly). We need to bring the farm to the city, in the form of more petting zoos, country fairs, etc. where people can interact with animals and benefit from the right kind of dirt.
4
Interesting, but I'd say it goes beyond farm exposure. I grew up in NYC and I didn't see the asthma inhalers, peanut allergies etc that are so prevalent today. I was shocked when checking my son into summer camp to see the long line of parents at the nurse's office with the inhalers, etc. As for peanuts, peanut butter sandwiches were a mainstay when I was a kid. Now they get banned from schools all over the US.
Maybe the farm exposure is only part of it. The helicopter parenting that refuses to allow the kids, whether in the city, burbs or rural area to just spend the day playing outside may be another part of it, coupled with too much screen-time; not much chance to pick up friendly microbes texting all day.
What to do? DON'T give your kids a cell phone or game system. Keep TV/videos very limited. Send them out to play. Have pets. Feed them peanuts from an early age; Bamba is awesome stuff. Send them to summer camps that are outdoor program based. Take the family camping. Quit using anti-microbial everything. Raise some chickens or ducks if you possibly can and give the kids their responsibility.
Maybe the farm exposure is only part of it. The helicopter parenting that refuses to allow the kids, whether in the city, burbs or rural area to just spend the day playing outside may be another part of it, coupled with too much screen-time; not much chance to pick up friendly microbes texting all day.
What to do? DON'T give your kids a cell phone or game system. Keep TV/videos very limited. Send them out to play. Have pets. Feed them peanuts from an early age; Bamba is awesome stuff. Send them to summer camps that are outdoor program based. Take the family camping. Quit using anti-microbial everything. Raise some chickens or ducks if you possibly can and give the kids their responsibility.
23
Growing up in Ohio with many Amish contacts over the years I note a couple of things. First, many Amish now don't farm for a living. They may have horses for transportation but not necessarily cattle. Perhaps they get the same benefit from working with horses?
Second, not sure how universal this but the Amish appear to be different from the "English" in their use of shoes. Amish kids are often barefoot introducing a possible pathway for microbes. However, adults often take off shoes when they go inside a house. My mother's Amish cleaning lady, by choice, always works with bare feet. With that habit, perhaps there are fewer microbes in the "Amish dust" than one might assume.
Second, not sure how universal this but the Amish appear to be different from the "English" in their use of shoes. Amish kids are often barefoot introducing a possible pathway for microbes. However, adults often take off shoes when they go inside a house. My mother's Amish cleaning lady, by choice, always works with bare feet. With that habit, perhaps there are fewer microbes in the "Amish dust" than one might assume.
5
I grew up in Chicago's Englewood neighborhood, about as urban as you can get, and I don't think I ever got near a live cow until I was about 17. But then my father was a laboring Irishman and my mother was a hard-working Bohemian. And I started in journalism at age 10 when I was delivering the Chicago Sun, before it became the Sun-Times, in 20 degrees below zero daily during that winter. And I always had some kind of job which kept me moving my body, working my legs. When TV first came out I used to park near the TV and was fascinated just watching the test patterns late into the night. But now folks just sit and watch TV endlessly and seldom move their lungs beyond a mild breath. So cows might be good for you, but you have to move to be healthy, to be alive.
29
OUR BODIES are covered with and contain inside far more microorganisms than we have cells. Our microbiomes are essential to our health. There is an old saying that you'll eat a peck of dirt before you die. That's proving to be true, for people who have more varied and healthy biomes have better overall health. To the extent that some who do not respond to antibiotics will respond to probiotics, including fecal transplants.
15
We never lived in a rural area when I was a child, but my paediatrician told my mother after the first appointment that she should let me play in the dirt all I wanted, and not get concerned when I ate a bit of dirt, as that would only kick-start my immune system. I am 67 now, and have no allergies whatsoever, except for a very slight one to cherries, but if I stay away from them for some time, I can indulge every now and then.
As child in Germany, my pülaymates and I would eat carrots pulled directly from the soil, fruit from the trees - a bird splat was something to be spat on and rubbed off - none of us had allergies, and none of us got any kind of infections from our bacteria-laced diet.
Developed a severe "allergy" to cheese once. Cure? When I was sent to the clinic for a severely inflamed fallopian tube, I was dosed with antibiotics which totalled my gut bacteria. To cure the problem, I ate all of the diary products the nurses would bring me (a great joke for them). Today I can eat all the diary products I want - and in Europe we have marvellous ones.
So, if you want healthy children, chuck the disinfectants (all you get out of them is resistant bacteria) and let the kiddies get properly filthy playing in the mud and soil, adopt a pet dog who will happily share elements of his own biome with all of you, and you may be able to avoid allergies.
As child in Germany, my pülaymates and I would eat carrots pulled directly from the soil, fruit from the trees - a bird splat was something to be spat on and rubbed off - none of us had allergies, and none of us got any kind of infections from our bacteria-laced diet.
Developed a severe "allergy" to cheese once. Cure? When I was sent to the clinic for a severely inflamed fallopian tube, I was dosed with antibiotics which totalled my gut bacteria. To cure the problem, I ate all of the diary products the nurses would bring me (a great joke for them). Today I can eat all the diary products I want - and in Europe we have marvellous ones.
So, if you want healthy children, chuck the disinfectants (all you get out of them is resistant bacteria) and let the kiddies get properly filthy playing in the mud and soil, adopt a pet dog who will happily share elements of his own biome with all of you, and you may be able to avoid allergies.
3
I've lived with asthma and multiple environmental and food allergies since I was very young. I'm now 43 and symptoms have only gotten worse with age and geography (dry months in the Bay Area are rough for asthmatics). In the last few years I've become sensitive to various chemicals and pollutants like secondhand smoke, akin to Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.
While the hygiene hypothesis seems to apply to my situation (my mother loved a clean house), I also had other risk factors. My father has had asthma since childhood, and my mother had some food allergies as a young woman.
Also, I lived in a Brooklyn housing project (Starrett City) that was next to a dump that had PCBs. When I was little (ages 5-7) they actually burned the garbage there releasing the PCBs into the air (http://www.nytimes.com/1994/04/03/nyregion/neighborhood-report-starrett-.... That's why me moved north to the suburbs.
Lastly, my mother smoked heavily during her entire pregnancy, for both my sister and me. Also, she several illicit drugs in the early 70's in close timing to her pregnancy with me, which might have had an effect.
I think in utero tobacco exposure and its accompanying chemical cocktail can perhaps be one of the strongest risk factors for smokers' children being asthmatic. Many studies, from all over the world, have demonstrated that tobacco exposure in the womb raises the risk of asthma for children exponentially.
While the hygiene hypothesis seems to apply to my situation (my mother loved a clean house), I also had other risk factors. My father has had asthma since childhood, and my mother had some food allergies as a young woman.
Also, I lived in a Brooklyn housing project (Starrett City) that was next to a dump that had PCBs. When I was little (ages 5-7) they actually burned the garbage there releasing the PCBs into the air (http://www.nytimes.com/1994/04/03/nyregion/neighborhood-report-starrett-.... That's why me moved north to the suburbs.
Lastly, my mother smoked heavily during her entire pregnancy, for both my sister and me. Also, she several illicit drugs in the early 70's in close timing to her pregnancy with me, which might have had an effect.
I think in utero tobacco exposure and its accompanying chemical cocktail can perhaps be one of the strongest risk factors for smokers' children being asthmatic. Many studies, from all over the world, have demonstrated that tobacco exposure in the womb raises the risk of asthma for children exponentially.
10
My rural homesteading family has printed up t-shirts with big, bold letters stating "Dirt Pride," to push back against many of our obsessively clean friends and relatives who believe cleanliness is next to godliness. We are bathed in the microbes from our well-organized but dusty farm, whether it's from the chickens and their acre run, the goats and their milk, both their sheds, the 1-1/2 acres of gardens featuring annual and perennial fruits, vegetables and hundreds of varieties of herbs: the earth, air and water are filled with an amazing mix of archaea, protozoa, bacteria, fungi, nematodes and earthworms, and insects too many to wonder about.
Recent peer-reviewed journals have been publishing studies claiming the microbes are critically important to our health the same way vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, omega-3 fatty acids and carbs/ proteins and fats are. The only way to sufficiently ingest them is to harvest your organically grown food and eat it without much washing: farmers markets will do, but conventionally gravel-grown food nourished by petro-chemical fertilizers bathed in the same such insecticides, all heavily processed and packaged up, will never suffice.
One study proved families who wash their dishes by hand have far fewer illnesses than those who use mechanical "dishwashers" that require a chlorine bleach-based detergent to sterilize the dishes.
There are fewer than 1% of families exposed to the filth needed to live a healthy life, and that won't change.
Recent peer-reviewed journals have been publishing studies claiming the microbes are critically important to our health the same way vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, omega-3 fatty acids and carbs/ proteins and fats are. The only way to sufficiently ingest them is to harvest your organically grown food and eat it without much washing: farmers markets will do, but conventionally gravel-grown food nourished by petro-chemical fertilizers bathed in the same such insecticides, all heavily processed and packaged up, will never suffice.
One study proved families who wash their dishes by hand have far fewer illnesses than those who use mechanical "dishwashers" that require a chlorine bleach-based detergent to sterilize the dishes.
There are fewer than 1% of families exposed to the filth needed to live a healthy life, and that won't change.
16
Dishwashers are no good - I get my dishes cleaner doing them by hand. And the bacteria on my sink are all my own. When I prepare vegetables, they get a very basic cleaning before I prepare them, and my idea of preparation is that they have most of their crunch left.
Would you believe there are people who spray their veggies with disinfectant before washing and preparing them?
Would you believe there are people who spray their veggies with disinfectant before washing and preparing them?
3
This is a great article, based upon a fascinating study which has important health implications for all of us. It is also good to read about some positive health benefits enjoyed by our Amish neighbors. They have been devastated by rare genetic disorders.
5
I recently read an article about how people who sucked their thumbs and/or bit their nails as youngsters, seemed to be less prone to allergies. This might corroborate with the "eat a pound of dirt every year" theory.
4
Carol: Same with kids who pick their noses (and eat it) says a doctor that told me this, many years ago...
4
Really? I thought nose pickings, being dried mucus, which is antiseptic, were one the cleanest things you could eat.
Ya gotta eat a peck o' dirt before ya die!
8
Have you ever tasted clay? Wonderful stuff - it is being sold now as a vitamin and mineral supplement for pet birds. Got a square of it for my canaries, but tried it before I gave it to them. Wish they sold it in the pharmacy for humans as well.
2
I find it curious they chose the Hutterite community because I recall a study from decades ago (?) that said although the insular Hutterite community had a genetic predisposition to allergies (not sure how they measured that), they did not have allergies (or perhaps they said not as much as their predisposition would suggest - it was a long time ago and I can't recall). Maybe this more recent study is identifying different genetic predispositions between the Amish and Hutterites?
2
As a corollary to my earlier post regarding an old study of Hutterites not having a high incidence of asthma despite a genetic predisposition, it appears that the Hutterite community has experienced some changes (link and quote below) that likely lead to the recent studies conclusion:
"Asthma has increased over a 10- to 13-year period among Hutterite females and atopy has become a significant risk factor for asthma, suggesting a change in environmental exposures that are either sex limited or that elicit a sex-specific response."
http://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(11)01073-6/abstract?rss=yes
"Asthma has increased over a 10- to 13-year period among Hutterite females and atopy has become a significant risk factor for asthma, suggesting a change in environmental exposures that are either sex limited or that elicit a sex-specific response."
http://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(11)01073-6/abstract?rss=yes
3
As worthwhile an article as anything ever printed in the NYTimes. Some thoughts.
All of my ancestors came to America in the 1700s: Amish on my father's side and German Reformed on my mothers. Most migrated to Ohio after the War of 1812, but the family left the farm and moved to Akron around 1906. My father returned the family to the farm in 1956 (while practicing law). My brother and I remain. Manure is something we get to track in the house because it sticks to the boots and shoes. I'm sure it gets in the air, and in our food as well.
The article isn't about the Amish. It's about people exposed to manure, raw milk and food raised in the back yard. And the health benefits conferred thereby. Conversely, the article is about society's fear of the unclean -- even sweat and body odor.
I've been a farmer, lawyer, weaver, artist and now indie film director, but one of my careers took me to Goodyear Atomic Corporation as site attorney. A lot of uranium in the neighborhood, and we had at the time a "threshold theory" pertaining to the amount of exposure to ionizing radiation one could withstand before incurring adverse health effects, like cancer. I don't know if the threshold theory still applies in that context; but I think it may apply with respect to pathogens, dirt, disease and allergies.
I surmise that everyone needs to be exposed to a certain threshold of organic dirt and pathogens to be healthy, while too great an exposure may lead to sickness. Apply it to our own life.
All of my ancestors came to America in the 1700s: Amish on my father's side and German Reformed on my mothers. Most migrated to Ohio after the War of 1812, but the family left the farm and moved to Akron around 1906. My father returned the family to the farm in 1956 (while practicing law). My brother and I remain. Manure is something we get to track in the house because it sticks to the boots and shoes. I'm sure it gets in the air, and in our food as well.
The article isn't about the Amish. It's about people exposed to manure, raw milk and food raised in the back yard. And the health benefits conferred thereby. Conversely, the article is about society's fear of the unclean -- even sweat and body odor.
I've been a farmer, lawyer, weaver, artist and now indie film director, but one of my careers took me to Goodyear Atomic Corporation as site attorney. A lot of uranium in the neighborhood, and we had at the time a "threshold theory" pertaining to the amount of exposure to ionizing radiation one could withstand before incurring adverse health effects, like cancer. I don't know if the threshold theory still applies in that context; but I think it may apply with respect to pathogens, dirt, disease and allergies.
I surmise that everyone needs to be exposed to a certain threshold of organic dirt and pathogens to be healthy, while too great an exposure may lead to sickness. Apply it to our own life.
46
thanks Logan, I would love to hear about your films. I also live in Ohio.
3
I grew up in a house full of dust and dirt and played in soils and sands and woods from childhood. I was dirty, big-time as a child. Lived on grandma's farm a couple weeks of the year with sheep and cows. And I also have had severe environmental allergies since birth. Every month I receive three injections full of all the stuff I'm allergic too, which helps only a little. Let's just say this allergy / immunology stuff is complicated.
8
This is absolutely Orwellian, upside-down, in it's declaration. I have worked in healthcare, in a hospital setting, for 40 years. I can't tell you the number of Amish that show up in the Emergency Room with asthma problems. Asthma and allergies are connected at the hip. There is no way in the world that their lifestyle makes the Amish healthier than the general population. The exact opposite is true.
4
Judge: But wouldn't this mean that you see the "worst of the worst?" Meaning that, as you said, you see many Amish with these problems?
Perhaps a study with a larger sampling might be a good start.
--John 08/04/16 - 4:24 AM
Perhaps a study with a larger sampling might be a good start.
--John 08/04/16 - 4:24 AM
9
"Clean" is not always a good thing. Bet my Mum is rolling over in her grave. (Sorry Mom!)
My allergies have lessened over age. More environmental than "hay" fever (hay, grass, pollens), which isn't to say that I do not get a day of run-for-the-Benadryl on occasion, but it could (and was) be so very worse.
Have hope :)
My allergies have lessened over age. More environmental than "hay" fever (hay, grass, pollens), which isn't to say that I do not get a day of run-for-the-Benadryl on occasion, but it could (and was) be so very worse.
Have hope :)
1
The Amish? Do they have a monopoly in utilizing Mother Nature's best? Yes, if you believe this kind of claptrap. Another "news" article on the "mysterious" ways of Mother Nature. Just as well, in a land of McDonalds and antibiotics dispensed like candy, and when you're totally screwed up in pain, how about some opioids?
The title should be the Health Secrets of the Secrets. Might as well be, the true value of what Mother Nature has blessed human kind with has been buried under the landfill of modern life.
The title should be the Health Secrets of the Secrets. Might as well be, the true value of what Mother Nature has blessed human kind with has been buried under the landfill of modern life.
5
Cow dung is used in Indian rural villages to put a coating over mud floors and courtyards. Looks like good place to research on this. Comparing villages that practice this coating and the ones that do not could produce interesting results.
7
As a child I was living on the large farm Hofgüll in Oberhessen to be safe from the bombing. The cow shed being very close to the stately mansion was always the center point of attention. Even now it's difficult to explain this. Was it the size of the animals mumbling their food, or being it so many, or the warmth inside the shed especially in winter.
Apparently even for a child coming from the city the contact with these cows was something essential and outstanding. Life is a funny experience.
Apparently even for a child coming from the city the contact with these cows was something essential and outstanding. Life is a funny experience.
11
Do you remember the smell? It was strong, but not at all unpleasant or disgusting. You have made me a bit nostalgic - remember the swallows' nests in the barn? Something the E.U. is demanding be eliminated because of the "risk of infection" via birds. Playing in the hay right above the stables on a warm summer's day... We never realized the good all this was doing us.
2
Growing up in Nigeria we had noticed that asthma and allergies seemed a lot more common in "London goats"as we called them: the children of the middle classes who had been born in Europe; constantly sniffing, with their hankies and inhalers.
1
Sneezing is mentioned frequently in this article as if sneezing were a symptom of asthma. Sneezing is associated with hay fever, which is a far cry from asthma. I'll take hay fever over asthma any day.
7
As I read the article, it cited hay fever and asthma as having similar causes but not as producing similar symptoms.
It turns out that none of this scientific research, and the solutions that may come from it, will make any difference at all. In California's Central Valley where I grew up no one had asthma. I grew up on a farm and we also had a dairy. That was back in the '40s and '50s. Today the asthma rate in elementary schools in that same town where I went to school is 30%. So what's the difference? The way they farm today and they way they milk cows. Farms are now huge corporations owned by someone who may not even live in the area or even California. The owner doesn't farm the land, he/she hires workers. And the crops have changed. Instead of cotton and corn it's mostly almonds and pistachios. Pesticide is everywhere and floats into the air and stays there. They knock the nuts on the ground and then use large streets weepers that scoop it up but raise a tremendous dust storm in the process. This dust goes into the air and never comes down. You can see this pesticide and dirt like a filthy fog in the distance. Dairies no longer let the cows graze a pasture but stand 24hrs a day in their own wet waste. The stench can be smelled for miles and flies populate the entire area and even the towns. Children are the casualties, 30% with asthma, but the EPA does nothing. The State of California does nothing.
It would be great it this scientific research into the causes and possible solutions for asthma could turn this around. But it will never happen.
It would be great it this scientific research into the causes and possible solutions for asthma could turn this around. But it will never happen.
59
I wonder how the rates of cancer differ? The immune system is instrumental in that as well. Is it possible there's an inverse relationship: high allergy = good immune response to cancer cells?
(Warning....anecdotal!) My sister has horrible allergies and still does at 60. We are only one year apart. I, on the other hand, am allergic to nothing. I am high risk for various cancers (BRCA1) and my sister is not. I have an early (very early, thank goodness) breast cancer. My sister does not. Is it possible, either genetically or developmentally, my immune system is less efficient at fighting cancers? Does my allergy-free state mean that I don't have to suffer with hay fever, but my immune system also ignores the really bad stuff?
A possible trade-off.
(Warning....anecdotal!) My sister has horrible allergies and still does at 60. We are only one year apart. I, on the other hand, am allergic to nothing. I am high risk for various cancers (BRCA1) and my sister is not. I have an early (very early, thank goodness) breast cancer. My sister does not. Is it possible, either genetically or developmentally, my immune system is less efficient at fighting cancers? Does my allergy-free state mean that I don't have to suffer with hay fever, but my immune system also ignores the really bad stuff?
A possible trade-off.
30
That's not at all nuts, SAS. (Not that you implied it was!) I think it might be more accurate to say that your immune system "runs cooler" and therefore responds less violently to everything, including cancer. And your sister's "runs hotter" and does the converse. Yes, anecdotal--but potentially a good area for research.
Of course, it would imply that as we get more allergic as a population, cancer rates go down... when in fact the opposite seems to be happening. So who knows?
Congratulations on the very earliness of your cancer, may it disappear and never return.
Of course, it would imply that as we get more allergic as a population, cancer rates go down... when in fact the opposite seems to be happening. So who knows?
Congratulations on the very earliness of your cancer, may it disappear and never return.
6
I was recently in an Amish/Mennonite community in Indiana while attending a workshop. I was shocked at how many obese older folks there were in this community. I was not expecting them to have the same health issues as their "English" counterparts. They may not have as large a percentage of obese elders as the general population, but they have some for sure. On the other hand, most younger adults dressed in traditional garb were not obese. And I did not see any obese children.
8
Being entirely of Mennonite stock (not dissimilar to the Hutterites or Amish) and only 1-2 generations removed from life in contact with cattle/grain farming, I have dealt with mild hay-fever and pollen allergies. I can attest to the fact that—while genetic makeup could be a determining factor—the exposure to these microbes could be solely responsible for the development of our immunity.
8
Relatives close to us raised there kids on hand sanitizers (father was a medical doctor) and they seemed to have far more ear infections and other maladies than most kids around here. Kids are in college now but dad still caries around his pocketsized bottle of sanitizer in case one of our dogs happens to try to sit in his lap on the sofa when he visits. Old habits die hard I reckon.
18
My former sister-in-law used chemical sanitizers on everything my nieces and nephews touched. The kids were always sick with something. It drove her mother crazy. I listened to Mom-in-law and let my kids get dirty, play with the dog and cat, and didn't fuss if they occasional ate food that fell on the floor or ate raspberries from the bushes with dirty hands. My kids were never sick, not even the flu and had 2 colds in their 30-some years on the planet. I, on the other hand have many severe allergies. My OB/Gyn would not let me breastfeed my kids because she believed I would give them my allergies. Sis-in-law had allergies too and she breast-fed her kids. Makes you wonder.
Of course your experience may vary.
Of course your experience may vary.
5
at the end of HGWells 'War Of The Worlds', the Martians are defeated by the microbes on earth...
27
i feel safe now.
19
So now I can tell myself, as I clean my two horses' stalls every morning, that I really am doing it for my health.
74
Ok, my mom grew up on a dairy farm and has all kinds of allergies as an adult. As a child I spent tons of time around the cow barn, feeding/milking, crawling around in the pasture etc. and I, too, have tons of allergies. Either these benefits are sort termed, or they are not nearly as sure as this article paints them to be!
23
Or anecdotes are not data.
22
Right. Anecdotes are not data. Also, is it possible the dairy farms you and your mother grew up on were relatively microbe-free due to antibiotics?
13
Don't many livestock routinely receive antibiotics? The Amish don't use them, so therein is the likely explanation.
3
howie mandels book, pls dont touch me, is a funny chronicle of a germphobe as you will read
a real ocd germ freak, howie used so much of that hand sanitizer it killed th natural bacteria colonies that lived on his skin
so he got viral warts instead
16
Growing up in France as a child, I remember receiving polio vaccinations and boosters in the late 50s. There was a theory that everything in America was so clean and sterilized that babies did not have a strong immune system. This is probably a myth.
The Measles at 14. Twelve of us 'boarded' at school in Paris. We all came down with the flu, but my fever continued to rise. Finally, a little girl announced that I was covered in little red spots. Dashed off by ambulance to the Institut Pasteur, I recovered well in ten days. A big fuss at being the only invalid of the above.
Why do so many of us here in the cities and countryside have allergies and asthma? In Europe during the summers of youth, my friends and I were running barefoot in a small village in Spain, or eating what are now considered 'organic' food. We did not use chemical products for house-cleaning.
Not all of us can go live on a farm. Why is our food wrapped in plastic, the container often needs a sledge-hammer? How does lettuce in plastic last so long with an incredible expiration date?
An acquaintance of mine born in the U.K., a public health expert in the humanitarian world, in the last decade has come down with malaria and dengue fever, only to bounce back, carry on working and rarely complaint.
Covered in fur from her rescue dogs, traveling the world, she took an antibiotic for dental work once. A water expert, she seems to be formidably immune to bacteria.
The Measles at 14. Twelve of us 'boarded' at school in Paris. We all came down with the flu, but my fever continued to rise. Finally, a little girl announced that I was covered in little red spots. Dashed off by ambulance to the Institut Pasteur, I recovered well in ten days. A big fuss at being the only invalid of the above.
Why do so many of us here in the cities and countryside have allergies and asthma? In Europe during the summers of youth, my friends and I were running barefoot in a small village in Spain, or eating what are now considered 'organic' food. We did not use chemical products for house-cleaning.
Not all of us can go live on a farm. Why is our food wrapped in plastic, the container often needs a sledge-hammer? How does lettuce in plastic last so long with an incredible expiration date?
An acquaintance of mine born in the U.K., a public health expert in the humanitarian world, in the last decade has come down with malaria and dengue fever, only to bounce back, carry on working and rarely complaint.
Covered in fur from her rescue dogs, traveling the world, she took an antibiotic for dental work once. A water expert, she seems to be formidably immune to bacteria.
31
Madeleine...
2
3
Never saw that one. Tres Cool!
MHZ: You can't watch George without laughing - ever! But what he says is more true than not, in his own hilarious way.
I watched a lady in a supermarket wipe down the cart handle with no less than three of those tissues treated with whatever they use. One after the other.
--John 07/08/16 - 4:45 AM
I watched a lady in a supermarket wipe down the cart handle with no less than three of those tissues treated with whatever they use. One after the other.
--John 07/08/16 - 4:45 AM
1
The more likely explanation is the lack of genetic diversity in the Amish and Hutterite population, the founder effect. Only about 100 families had migrated from Switzerland and the surrounding areas to the American Colonies by 1750 and the families all marry into other Amish families. The Amish population has higher levels of dwarfism and Angelman Syndrome, but good outcomes are also passed from generation to generation.
12
The inbreeding and health issues are of the Amish are such that I would look at a study like this with some skepticism. They are an unusual group.
An interesting question is what happens when Amish spend time outside of the home environment (many now work in factories, retail, and construction trades).
And what happens when they leave the community?
Whatever the case, I don't expect many mainstream American kids to suddenly be living with their livestock or on a farm.
An interesting question is what happens when Amish spend time outside of the home environment (many now work in factories, retail, and construction trades).
And what happens when they leave the community?
Whatever the case, I don't expect many mainstream American kids to suddenly be living with their livestock or on a farm.
11
I think that was the point. The two groups are genetically very similar. It was the closest they could get to a comparative population.
6
It's fewer than that - about 80 families.
Remember when the old adage was 'eat a pound of dirt' yearly? Between pregnant women avoiding all manner of things (note present programs to desensitize nut allergies by eating nuts under controlled conditions), wipes, anti-bacterial soaps and cleansers, over the generations we have become so germ and food-phobic that we have developed lifestyles that compromise our quality of life. This preliminary report is one; overuse of antibiotics is another. Moderation in all things.
116
I'm the mother of a child with a life-threatening allergy to peanuts, and I ate tons of peanut butter during pregnancy and while nursing (I received WIC nutrition benefits, and pb and canned tuna were the proteins provided 20 years ago). There is no history food allergies in the family. One taste of a peanut butter milkshake at 18 months of age sent us to the emergency room. I myself grew up on a farm and have a robust relationship with natural "dirt", housekeeping is way down on my list of priorities, and my child was outdoors playing a lot. In other words, more research is needed.
2
It is good to see a glimmer of potential in the work toward prevention of asthma, which inhibits quality and life, can threaten life, and does kill people. Asthma is so common, and the expense of treatment, visits to the physician, and even hospital stays is significant because it is so common a condition. Tens of thousands of Americans have it and thousands die each year from it. One hopes that research like this can ultimately develop a prevention.
17
Interesting. I hope this turns out to be a real thing, and that kids can be liberated from their antiseptic lives and just go play and get dirty. Just as we did as kids but so unacceptable today. I recall hitting grounders with my cousin in his father's dairy barn which, while clean enough not to soil a baseball, must have been ripe with those beneficial organisms.
But no doubt someone will find a way to put the required "pollutants" into a capsule so the antiseptic way of life can continue in its truly joyless way.
But no doubt someone will find a way to put the required "pollutants" into a capsule so the antiseptic way of life can continue in its truly joyless way.
109
We have badly lost our direction, and dirt is definitely the way back. I moved to this country when I was in my teens, and I was shocked at the fear surrounding anything "dirty" and the maniacal bathing and showering culture. I assimilated, of course, and what did I get for doing so? Adult onset asthma at age 40. I hope to get the "poop pill" to fix my gut, and, in turn, my auto-immune problem, but apparently there is a shortage of healthy donors, so I do what I can with diet. Perhaps the Amish will be the answer.
5
Too much information about a trivial topic
3
An unhelpful and unnecessarily dismissive comment on a most important topic.
9
Don't know about Hutterites, but Amish also drink unpasteurized milk.
5
I live among Amish in rural western NY and while I respect some of their beliefs and practices I do not envy some of their approaches to health maintenance. Local dentists are full of stories of young Amish wanting all their healthy teeth pulled to be replaced by false teeth that will never rot no matter how much sugar one eats. Failing a dentist who will pull healthy teeth, the horse doctor/dentist, on his periodic rounds, has been known to pull human teeth. Maybe it's just my neighborhood. In any case, I'm glad their lifestyle confers some health perks. Just know, dental hygiene (at least in this valley) is not one of them
16
As a small boy living in an officers married quarters at HMS Dryad, my favourite place was the piggery. Later, my only real childhood friend was my grandparents' dog. Never had a problem with allergies.
7
The biggest problem in the west is that it takes hundreds upon hundreds of studies to come to a point where NO decision can be made.
The doctors in the west are "scared" to do anything to help the kids. They in fact create asthmatic children. My daughter, who is thank God perfectly healthy now, was continuously getting cold infections with green stuff coming out of her nose and difficulty in breathing etc... The doctor gives her Ventolin to help her open her air ways and wants to test her for asthma. Instead of treating my daughter for the recurring (every few months) infections with a suitable antibiotic they were leading her to the path of becoming an asthmatic and singing this song that antibiotics are not good and the kid has a viral infection without doing any tests. Luckily, I discussed this with my 3rd world trained doctor sister on a visit to Pakistan and she gave me several bottles of children's antibiotic and suggested whenever she gets this cold go and see a doctor and if it just this cold then give her the 5 day course. Guess what? I have a healthy daughter now, no asthma and no ventolin bla bla bla. Make a long story short, the doctors here in the west create their customers and not fix the simple problems. It is regrettable. I know too many antibiotics are bad but the first line ones should be given to relieve the problems and not complicate the kids lives.
The doctors in the west are "scared" to do anything to help the kids. They in fact create asthmatic children. My daughter, who is thank God perfectly healthy now, was continuously getting cold infections with green stuff coming out of her nose and difficulty in breathing etc... The doctor gives her Ventolin to help her open her air ways and wants to test her for asthma. Instead of treating my daughter for the recurring (every few months) infections with a suitable antibiotic they were leading her to the path of becoming an asthmatic and singing this song that antibiotics are not good and the kid has a viral infection without doing any tests. Luckily, I discussed this with my 3rd world trained doctor sister on a visit to Pakistan and she gave me several bottles of children's antibiotic and suggested whenever she gets this cold go and see a doctor and if it just this cold then give her the 5 day course. Guess what? I have a healthy daughter now, no asthma and no ventolin bla bla bla. Make a long story short, the doctors here in the west create their customers and not fix the simple problems. It is regrettable. I know too many antibiotics are bad but the first line ones should be given to relieve the problems and not complicate the kids lives.
8
Allergy and asthma suffering farm kid here.The difference between Amish and Hutterite health may have more to do with greater acceptance of technology by the Hutterites. Did anyone check on the use of DDT in both farming communities? I suspect the Amish did not use DDT in proximity to their homes. The use of DDT may be responsible for a breakdown in the ability to develop an immunity to allergens. All insecticides damage the human nervous system. I also speculate that peanut allergies are not caused by peanuts but by use of agricultural chemicals that increase yields. Now that there is talk about using DDT to combat the Zika virus, this is an issued that should be studied.
51
Your ignorance is staggering.
In 1972, DDT was banned in the US for agricultural use.
You're a farm kid and you didn't know that?
The only exception is for public health use, in epidemics of insect-borne infectious diseases, such as the bubonic plague outbreak in 1979.
In 1972, DDT was banned in the US for agricultural use.
You're a farm kid and you didn't know that?
The only exception is for public health use, in epidemics of insect-borne infectious diseases, such as the bubonic plague outbreak in 1979.
1
Very interesting! My family isn't Amish, but I grew up on a family farm. My mom was working with livestock right up until she gave birth, and I spent the majority of my early childhood running around the barn barefoot--manure washes off! And it took me years to get used to pasteurized milk at school. No one in my family has environmental or food allergies. Anecdotal evidence, of course, but it matches up with the study.
It would be interesting to see data for modern farming with livestock. Would it be equivalent to Amish farming, Hutterite farming, or somewhere in between?
It would be interesting to see data for modern farming with livestock. Would it be equivalent to Amish farming, Hutterite farming, or somewhere in between?
34
I had hay fever since I was 2, so my mom kept me away from possible triggers. I did not learn to ride horses or go anywhere near barns or farms because my mom was afraid that I'd get asthma. I never developed asthma. My cousins, on the other hand, had the outdoor experiences with animals and orchards and they got asthma. This is just more anecdotal evidence, but it goes opposite to what this article suggests.
2
The "hygiene hypothesis" that excessive cleanliness leads to higher incidence of allergy is an old one; nothing new in that. What readers of this piece should be aware of is that the insular inbred Amish suffer from a very high incidence of genetic diseases including some that are almost theirs alone. Better to have kids with allergies than with neurodegenerative diseases which ruin and shorten lives. Let's not wax rhapsodic over the Amish lifestyle. Playing in dirt and handling animals with some regularity will probably suffice to exercise kids' immune systems while normal social mobility and mixing will assure adequate genetic diversity in future generations.
55
The Hutterites have the same genetic problems as the Amish, for the same reason--they never marry outside the fold. So the differences in asthma are still impressive. One can agree with SML, though, that both lifestyles do have their drawbacks. You can get some barnyard microbes without having to marry your cousin.
14
Yes. A perfect example of this is glutaric acidemia (GDD) in which the incidence among certain groups - Amish, certain native Americans, others - is orders of magnitude higher than in the population as a whole, with carrier rates of up to 1 in 10.
Allergies and genetic disorders are two different things. Allergies are a stress response as much as an immune response.
1
Growing up on a farm, I spent many hours seeking the ephemeral antibodies. Perhaps my asthma would be more severe had I not been so up close and personal with our bucolic bovines. One memory at milking time the friendly cow draping a dripping, manure-laden tail over my right shoulder. Okay, so we didn't ship Grade A fluid. Cottage cheese was good enough for us, but that level of collegiality had to have major medical benefits.
9
Very interesting. Maybe sending the kids out to the farm in the summer is an idea that should come back.
23
So my playtime in the barn was a good thing, I have no allergies and I have never had asthma. I grew up in Germany and I was always at the neighboring farms to "help". When I was older I went to get milk, fresh from the cow, everyday so my exposure lasted for about 20 years, my protection has worked well for 75 years..
I have been trying to buy raw milk for making cheese and butter here in Georgia. Farmers are forbidden to sell it for "Human consumption" , I can buy a little for my cat but she is lactose intolerant.
I have been trying to buy raw milk for making cheese and butter here in Georgia. Farmers are forbidden to sell it for "Human consumption" , I can buy a little for my cat but she is lactose intolerant.
17
I wonder if you're familiar with the battle that traditional Cheesemakers are having with the FDA? The FDA wants to ban traditional cheese because of all the "bacteria and germs" inherent in real cheese. The FDA needs to be schooled, and the news is that they may be open to listen. At least that say the Cheesemakers!
8
In my GA town on the AL border people line up to buy raw milk labeled for pet consumption every Saturday. It's delicious.
1
Interesting article. My wife grew up in rural Zimbabwe in conditions similar to the Amish, but she developed allergies after 10 years living in North America.
13
I live on a farm and my children all have excellent immune systems, as do myself and my wife. We don't keep animals, just an orchard and vineyard.
But I do eat fruit straight from the tree, I collect rainwater from the roof, unfiltered, and have a composting toilet i have to empty myself. Living with animals may be important but there are a lot more aspects of farm life which may be involved.
But I do eat fruit straight from the tree, I collect rainwater from the roof, unfiltered, and have a composting toilet i have to empty myself. Living with animals may be important but there are a lot more aspects of farm life which may be involved.
12
I'll add that not only have you raised healthy children, you have raised future parents whose children will thanks them a thousand times over that they were bred from healthy stock.
Well done, Sir, well done!
Well done, Sir, well done!
4
So glad I can now take credit as a great mom for not vacuuming and dusting!Neither of my children have asthma!
98
My mother also refused regularly to do any housework. It was all the dust in my sister's room that likely caused my sister's asthma at the age of ten. We took out the carpet and replaced it with hardboard, after which my sister's asthma improved to the point it was no longer life threatening. Forty-five years on, and she's still a chronic asthmatic though.
21
Raw milk....praise Jesus! Let's buy some cows. ;)
10
Per the FDA: "Raw milk is milk from cows, sheep, or goats that has not been pasteurized to kill harmful bacteria. This raw, unpasteurized milk can carry dangerous bacteria such as Salmonella, E. coli, and Listeria, which are responsible for causing numerous foodborne illnesses."
Watch for "Amish barn play experiences" coming soon to a trendy neighborhood near you.
153
Yes.
Commodify your dissent and go for it!
Environmentally speaking, "the organisms our immune systems expect to be present" is a key point both here and in our world at large.
In the book, Technopoly, authors asserts that just as an ecosystem whose caterpillars suddenly disappear is *not* that ecosystem without caterpillars: it is a completely different ecosystem.
Similarly, Technopoly goes on to say, America without TV (pre-1940) is not the same America with TV added. TV completely changed the social "ecosystem." Ditto the internet and how.
Meanwhile back at the microbe ranch, we have done so much with anti-bacterial soap, cleansers, hand sterilizers, and on and on, it's no wonder our bodies don't know which way is up.
In the book, Technopoly, authors asserts that just as an ecosystem whose caterpillars suddenly disappear is *not* that ecosystem without caterpillars: it is a completely different ecosystem.
Similarly, Technopoly goes on to say, America without TV (pre-1940) is not the same America with TV added. TV completely changed the social "ecosystem." Ditto the internet and how.
Meanwhile back at the microbe ranch, we have done so much with anti-bacterial soap, cleansers, hand sterilizers, and on and on, it's no wonder our bodies don't know which way is up.
11
An old expression used to advise that "children should eat a pound of dirt" while they grow up to protect themselves from illness.
This story seems to confirm that.
Our daughter grew up with a dog in our house from day one.
After she moved out to attend college, then on to live on her own, she became allergic to our beagle and has to take medication before coming home to visit every few months.
She never had allergies during her childhood and in fact had only one sick visit to her pediatrician during her first 18 years of life.
This story seems to confirm that.
Our daughter grew up with a dog in our house from day one.
After she moved out to attend college, then on to live on her own, she became allergic to our beagle and has to take medication before coming home to visit every few months.
She never had allergies during her childhood and in fact had only one sick visit to her pediatrician during her first 18 years of life.
2
When I traveled in Poland, all the milk was raw. It is delicious, and probably has health benefits. The cows are inspected very carefully for TB and other problems. Raw milk should not be illegal.
17
A study this small (30) participants is too small to be conclusive. The findings do make sense though and of course the pharma companies will be upset since they sell a lot of meds for asthma and allergies. All the antibiotics that are prescribed break down the bodies own immune system and cause more problems. Some, like Cipro (flueroquinilins) can cause major inflammation and tendon tears. Drs. and drug companies just say that the risk of any of this is tiny. Why should there be any risk at all?
3
Aha! Another test of the "hygiene hypothesis" besides Finland and Russian Karelia. Similar ancestry and different habits as far as exposure to bacteria inhibiting allergies in the more exposed group. Is it only asthma, or allergies in general?
1
I'm from northeastern Indiana and am well acquainted with the Amish communities there. Our family had an Amish nanny and my siblings and I spent time on Amish farms as youngsters. Marriages are within the communities so the gene pool would be small. I wonder how much influence genetics has on expression of allergies in these communities.
16
Best advice these days... Let your kids go out and play in the dirt early in life and often! And get rid of the Purell and Lysol in every room!
96
Funny George Carlin once talked about letting our kids get dirty and deal naturally with germs.
Sounds like George was right and our immune system needs excercise.
Sounds like George was right and our immune system needs excercise.
4
There are flaws of omission here. The Amish and the Hutterites follow very different practices in home and farm management, and those differences are not being taken into account.
It is wrong to assume that the closer proximity of house to barn, among the Amish farmers, would by itself necessarily expose Amish women and households to more animal-fostered microbes than Hutterite women face. In both communities the women do the cleaning and washing. Washing the clothing of those who work the fields and with farm animals will expose anyone handing those soiled clothes to a heavy dose of airborne microbes. Hutterites do not eschew machinery and technology the way the Amish do, so it is likely that they use washing machines, and perhaps even dryers, for the laundry. A woman following strict Aamish practices is going to do that laundry by hand, and hang it out to dry. Similarly, an Amish woman is unlikely to use a filtered vacuum cleaner, while a Hutterite might. Anyone who has swept, dusted and mopped a home -- cleaning without her help of machines -- knows that you end up inhaling a lot of what you are cleaning up.
It is wrong to assume that the closer proximity of house to barn, among the Amish farmers, would by itself necessarily expose Amish women and households to more animal-fostered microbes than Hutterite women face. In both communities the women do the cleaning and washing. Washing the clothing of those who work the fields and with farm animals will expose anyone handing those soiled clothes to a heavy dose of airborne microbes. Hutterites do not eschew machinery and technology the way the Amish do, so it is likely that they use washing machines, and perhaps even dryers, for the laundry. A woman following strict Aamish practices is going to do that laundry by hand, and hang it out to dry. Similarly, an Amish woman is unlikely to use a filtered vacuum cleaner, while a Hutterite might. Anyone who has swept, dusted and mopped a home -- cleaning without her help of machines -- knows that you end up inhaling a lot of what you are cleaning up.
12
"God made dirt and dirt don't hurt." Indeed. My father grew up on a vegetable farm and had neither allergies nor asthma; his cast-iron constitution and digestion were standing jokes in the family. My sister and I seem to have inherited his constitution. We also grew up playing in the dirt and mud; I continue to do so as an avid gardener, rock climber and canoeist. She taught vocal music while I taught Adventure Education, a vigorous physical education curriculum (we are both retired now). We saw first-hand the problems our asthmatic students confronted, and gave thanks every day for having grown up in a non-agricultural but far from squeaky-clean environment. To this day, neither she nor I have allergies or asthma.
5
Some fuzzy numbers here. 1 in 12 urban and suburban dwellers have asthma. Asthma is 1/3 to 1/2 less likely in farms in Switzerland than urban areas (thus between 1/36 and 1/24) but the Amish have even less asthma?. However their number is 1/20 which isn't less than the Europeans but rather more. In addition, the Hutterites at 21% or about 1/5 are higher than the urban dwellers, which kind of defeats the farm hypothesis. I would speculate that when dealing with genetically isolated populations like these who only marry within a relatively small gene pool, genetic differences are more important than environmental differences, especially since immue response is closely tied to the HLA genes which cluster in closely related people (the reason a brother is more likely a good kidney donor than a stranger).
6
Where I came from the Hutterites were plagued with diseases, including diabetes and an unusual form of muscular dystrophy, because the people were inbred due to cousin to cousin marriages going back many generations. I don't know whether this is true with these particular Hutterites or Amish, but it might be worth considering.
11
Well it may be so and yet so what. Livestock have brought us closer to diseases. And species jumps still happen. I think the balance is just a balance and not to get too concerned about. There may be other reasons for asthmatics to be asthmatics. And changes in genome are not always leading to total health....sickle cell anemia comes to mind. Is that a response to malaria that is worse than the diseased population. Intriguing of course, without public health answer for now.
1
Like our grandmothers told us..A little dirt never hurt
8
Fascinating. I wonder what the effect is of the constant barrage of antiseptic soaps and that alcohol-based gel is, not to mention heavy cleaners in daily household use. My mother always made a distinction between "clean dirt" and truly unsafe messes such as rotting food. But then, in the days of my childhood, I and my fellows roamed the world pretty freely, doing all kinds of things few kids get to do now and probably exposing ourselves to any number of microbial stews (Long Island sound, swimming pools, lakes, ponds, and the like). When I was growing up, virtually no schoolmates had allergies of any kind. This isn't proof of anything, but it was noteworthy to me at the time that, in the 80s, a significant number of my daughter's schoolmates were allergic to all sorts of things and required constant monitoring. Will future generations be able to go outdoors at all, or eat more than a handful of foods?
43
Having finished a day of harvesting and now off to milk the cows
all I can say to you "Sneezing and Wheezing City Folk" is:
Who has chosen the better life ?
all I can say to you "Sneezing and Wheezing City Folk" is:
Who has chosen the better life ?
4
In the end, it is a matter of balancing advantages, risks, costs, and benefits, and of trying to enhance the positive factors and minimize the negative ones. True, the laborious rural life may have its moments of bucolic bliss and its health benefits are undeniable. However, many of us need to vibrancy of a multicultural megalopolis, with its museums, theatres, universities, and many other similar instances of a rich intellectual life, along with a strong and progressive and liberal outlook. I would think that, despite the physical and mental health advantages, quite a few NYT readers would feel asphyxiated by the rather rustic, tedious, constricting, insular, and parochial environment of life in a farm.
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Glad I ate my pound of dirt when I was a little kid!
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Very good. Makes me wonder what the seemly simplistic answer to complex questions like autism and alheimers will be.
1
They have never been able to give a good reason to have children drink milk as much as they have promoted over the years, maybe it was just better to have the cow around than to actually drink the milk to promote better health outcomes.
Who would have thought a dirty kid and a dirty house would promote good heath. Stay healthy, dust less!
Who would have thought a dirty kid and a dirty house would promote good heath. Stay healthy, dust less!
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Guns, germs and steel. Jared Diamond is exactly right at least in the germ part. Curious this hasn't gotten more attention as more and more kids develop allergies. But it's not as exciting for the conspiracy folks like autism junk science.
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Health secrets of the Amish?
Have you ever eaten in an Amish home?
I have.
Lots of fat, salt, sugar and more good stuff for you to swallow.
When I say lots, I mean lots.
What they do that is very healthy is to work outdoors, lots of manual labor, have large families where everyone is included and refrain from vaccination.
And they are growing so much that they need to purchase more land.
Oh, and they also refuse to accept Social Security. They trust G-d and do just fine, thank you. They take care of each other when it comes to financial hardship.
We can learn some good things from these people as long as we don't romanticize them.
Have you ever eaten in an Amish home?
I have.
Lots of fat, salt, sugar and more good stuff for you to swallow.
When I say lots, I mean lots.
What they do that is very healthy is to work outdoors, lots of manual labor, have large families where everyone is included and refrain from vaccination.
And they are growing so much that they need to purchase more land.
Oh, and they also refuse to accept Social Security. They trust G-d and do just fine, thank you. They take care of each other when it comes to financial hardship.
We can learn some good things from these people as long as we don't romanticize them.
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And they are not immune from scandal - human they are
I had horrible allergies as a kid in the 70s. Constant red nose, sneezing, watery eyes. Tests showed me positive for over 100 substances - you name it, I had it -- trees, grass, even chicken. I got four shots a week for several years, and all that was in those shots were small doses of what my body was allergic to. I am just one case study, which proves nothing, but I haven't sneezed or needed an allegy pill in more than twenty years, which I attribute to those systematic exposures as a kid and the Jack Lalane defenses built up as a result.
So if you ask me, three cheers for our immune systems, a marvel of evolution! All she needs is a chance to get familiar with her enemy, and before long she can lick almost anything. I'm no enemy of Western medicine, it's done some great things and will continue to, but it feels lately like we've stop thinking first and foremost of harnessing the pharmaceutical army of white blood cells we are born with in our blood, and which is more adaptable than any drug regimen we can contrive with our big evolved brains.
Now if you'll excuse me, my yummy chicken wings are ready to eat.
So if you ask me, three cheers for our immune systems, a marvel of evolution! All she needs is a chance to get familiar with her enemy, and before long she can lick almost anything. I'm no enemy of Western medicine, it's done some great things and will continue to, but it feels lately like we've stop thinking first and foremost of harnessing the pharmaceutical army of white blood cells we are born with in our blood, and which is more adaptable than any drug regimen we can contrive with our big evolved brains.
Now if you'll excuse me, my yummy chicken wings are ready to eat.
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Speaking of profit, I'm thinking of opening a cowshed therapy center in my suburb for the chicken-coop and kale crowd.
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The message of much of the research into how our immune systems interacts with the microbes of the world is pretty clear: Beneficial bacteria and other microorganisms that live in and around us are crucial for protecting our health. Killing off bacteria with antibiotics and disinfectants without protecting the good bugs is a serious mistake. We contain more trillions of cells of probiotic bacteria in our bodies than we do human cells.
Put down that antibacterial soap!
Put down that antibacterial soap!
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I bet Manhattan had no hay fever 100 years ago when the streets were full of manure and horse urine. There was probably low incidence of autoimmune diseases as well. Maybe even cancer.
Maybe it's time to start spraying manure occasionally in city streets as a preventative measure. Probably there wouldn't have to be a lot to get the health benefits, just enough to get a strong whiff of poop every morning when you walk outside. Or maybe dog owners should be encouraged to NOT clean up after their dogs, and we can just track the poop back to our house and expose ourselves to a little bit of it.
Maybe it's time to start spraying manure occasionally in city streets as a preventative measure. Probably there wouldn't have to be a lot to get the health benefits, just enough to get a strong whiff of poop every morning when you walk outside. Or maybe dog owners should be encouraged to NOT clean up after their dogs, and we can just track the poop back to our house and expose ourselves to a little bit of it.
4
Or we could realize that urban mass society is poison and set in motion some vast changes in our lifeway.
2
A fascinating article, particularly the idea that pregnant women can confer protection on their offspring through exposure to microbes.
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I have read elsewhere that when mothers and babies are both exposed to the same potential infections, the mothers' immune systems will kick in to create anti-bodies, which then get transferred to the baby while nursing. This is one of the reasons breast feeding is so important.
5
Reagan?
This is a "nothing" article that raises some questions but concludes by explaining that the experts don't really understand what they claim to be studying. The only reason they would study something like this is to determine if it has profit potential. It's not just a coincidence that this article (and the Zika scare) coincides with a rally in healthcare stocks.
5
Let me explain to you about science - nobody understand what they are studying in the beginning. They have ideas and fumble towards answers. This is a small study but it is well designed and has got interesting results. And those results will lead to another study. That is how science is done.
7
I detect perhaps an overabundance of cynicism.
The leading healthcare stocks (Merck, Eli Lilly, Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer) have been outperforming the S&P500 for the last 5 years or more.
This is not a "nothing" article. It is worthwhile and interesting article about a direction of research that is just starting. As such, I'm happy to see it. I hope both the medical researchers will continue to pursue it and see where it leads. I also hope the NY Times will continue reporting on it as new information arises.
Although I described this line of research as "just starting", I should point out that the general idea (natural exposure as a kind of vaccination process) has been well known to medicine for generations. It was in fact what led to the first smallpox vaccine around 1796, by Dr. Edward Jenner.
The leading healthcare stocks (Merck, Eli Lilly, Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer) have been outperforming the S&P500 for the last 5 years or more.
This is not a "nothing" article. It is worthwhile and interesting article about a direction of research that is just starting. As such, I'm happy to see it. I hope both the medical researchers will continue to pursue it and see where it leads. I also hope the NY Times will continue reporting on it as new information arises.
Although I described this line of research as "just starting", I should point out that the general idea (natural exposure as a kind of vaccination process) has been well known to medicine for generations. It was in fact what led to the first smallpox vaccine around 1796, by Dr. Edward Jenner.
14
It must be sad living in a world where the only reason anyone studies things is to figure out whether they have profit potential. I thought the article was fascinating.
7
I once read a story about a New Age California Spa treatment called a 'high colonic'. Think in terms of an extreme enema.
I was particularly amused by a doctor's comment regarding the procedure:
"It's supposed to be dirty up there. Leave it alone."
People are too clever (clean) by half...
I was particularly amused by a doctor's comment regarding the procedure:
"It's supposed to be dirty up there. Leave it alone."
People are too clever (clean) by half...
120
My two children grew up drinking raw milk from a friend's cows. We also have always had a few free-range hens running around our yard, along with dogs and cats. The kids are in their 20's now and are exceptionally healthy and have no allergies. I feel very lucky to have had access to real food and real germs!
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