The IOC should allow Russia to participate in the Rio games, under the condition that Mr. Putin himself must be the sole athlete representing Russia in all athletic events.
4
The question that has been nagging me is this: If the Russians set up a state-sponsored urine switching program at Sochi to substitute clean samples for their doping athletes, is it not possible that they could have tampered with samples to disqualify winning athletes from other nations? I.e. Cleaned up their own athletes samples and dirtied others. Has anyone looked into this?
2
I am not surprised that the Russians cheated the system and would have gotten away with it had it not been for one person with a conscience. You have to live with your conscience. Loyalty can be bought and sold as a commodity which is why the FSB was involved.
When it comes to sports, everyone looks for an edge. Whether it is full-body bathing suits that resembles condom, a piece of equipment that is two-ounces lighter or a little pill to boost endurance, everyone looks for an edge. Some edges are seen as innovative until they are copied and some think that it will damage the sport. Others are called illegal based on some moral judgement.
This time, the Russians went on the side of doing something illegal and got caught. Next time, it will be someone else. But in reality, nothing has changed. Just look at most of the Soviet bloc women from the 1960s-80s. Many were either genetic freaks or on something. But they did not have these tests back then and judging was suspect that a lot went uncaught.
Basically, the more things change the more they stay the same!
When it comes to sports, everyone looks for an edge. Whether it is full-body bathing suits that resembles condom, a piece of equipment that is two-ounces lighter or a little pill to boost endurance, everyone looks for an edge. Some edges are seen as innovative until they are copied and some think that it will damage the sport. Others are called illegal based on some moral judgement.
This time, the Russians went on the side of doing something illegal and got caught. Next time, it will be someone else. But in reality, nothing has changed. Just look at most of the Soviet bloc women from the 1960s-80s. Many were either genetic freaks or on something. But they did not have these tests back then and judging was suspect that a lot went uncaught.
Basically, the more things change the more they stay the same!
I have no doubt that the Russians have been cheating for years - Sochi medals should be returned. That won't happen; cannot realistically go back in time. BUT that doesn't mean that Russia should ever get away with this; they shouldn't be a part of the Olympics. Sorry for the athletes, but Russia has always cared little for their people, the individuals. Individuals are not recognized in Russia - it's all about the collective (publically) and the elite (privately).
2
Russia must be banned from the 2016 Olympics and all Olympic sports competition until they eradicate doping.
Sorry Putin- you got caught and cheating has consequences. Stop blaming everyone else for the corruption in your own country and clean up the doping.
Sorry Putin- you got caught and cheating has consequences. Stop blaming everyone else for the corruption in your own country and clean up the doping.
3
This is not the only thing Russia cheats at. Just about everything about Russia is a cheat. No wonder Rat Face and Don the Con love each other so much. They may have been "separated at birth."
4
Let's be honest: The final decision rests with NBC, Coca-Cola, and Nike.
3
With Putin and his coterie so dismissive of The West and of Western values, why should they be upset at being excluded from another event so firmly anchored in the West (both the original Olympics with roots in Greece, and the revival dating to 1896 organized by the French)? If Russia is so bent on rejecting Western values, why not just turn inward and have a Russian Olympics, inviting "friends of Russia" only.
2
Like the Repuglicans, their seeming comrades in thought and deed, they have to cheat to win. And, they still consider it winning.
1
Certainly no one is surprised by all of this. Athletes participating in the Olympic Games having been cheating since the dawn of time. The Russians have simply taken it to a national level. And they did that many, many years ago. Who can forget the East German women's swim team? Or the Russian weightlifters? The Soviet Union and now Russia have totally destroyed any integrity the Olympic Games had left. And they have been allowed to do that by an IOC that is either too weak or too corrupt to stop them. Perhaps it is time to call it a day and send the games into history where they belong.
Russia should consider themselves lucky. With all the poisonous water and conditions going on in Rio, I wish the USA would pull out completely. We will be sending 1000+ people that will contract/carry illness and bring it back home.
2
I myself am going to take up residence wherever the PGA is playing :}
1
Try banning them from the Olympics for the next 4 summer and winter games then maybe they and all dopers will learn something.
Watching the Opening Ceremonies from Rio on TV, as a past Paralympian myself, my heart will ache for the athletes whether Russia is banned or not. If they are excluded, I will feel for the Russian athletes who wanted to compete clean but are unfortunate enough to live in a country with state-sponsored doping. If they are allowed to compete, I will feel for the athletes from other countries who know they have been playing by a different set of rules than the Russians.
Russia's actions tarnish not just its own team but the whole Olympic movement.
Russia's actions tarnish not just its own team but the whole Olympic movement.
Sports at this level are a form of mass entertainment, so why is the use of performance enhancing drugs by these athletes of any more import than the use of makeup by actors? It is part of the illusion we all buy into for out own edification. So long as their use is not as a result of State compulsion (which, in Russia's case, it well may have been), I am no more troubled by an athlete who chooses to use performance enhancing drugs to better entertain the masses than I am by an actor who gets a face lift or a stripper who gets breast implants.
2
As I recall, the original report noted that "32 athletes from 11 countries" were involved. The majority were from Russia, but who were the others? Or does it not matter, since they are not Russian?
3
The original report did not say majority Russian as the name and nationality of the athletes were withheld.
What took them so long? My nephew is an Olympian, and he says it has been common knowledge in athletics for more than a decade that the Russians were cheating.
3
If Russia is not banned from the Olympics the integrity of this organized world event will be affected. Then every nation in the world needs a doping program to compete.
Putin against Trump in the next winter olympics.
Putin against Trump in the next winter olympics.
2
"The investigative team gained access to 95 doping samples of Russian athletes from Sochi that had been stored in Switzerland;"
As long as Switzerland is hiding FIFA leaders from global soccer bribery and corruption for years on end I understand that Putin is a bit annoyed here.
As long as Switzerland is hiding FIFA leaders from global soccer bribery and corruption for years on end I understand that Putin is a bit annoyed here.
2
The Times is always a magnet for the Blame America First crowd and this is no exception, as people speciously equate Lance Armstrong cheating on his own to government-directed cheating.
For those who claim that in America sports cheating penalties are inflicted on only the individuals involved, ask Penn State. Or the New England Patriots. But it does raise the question of why Joe Torrre and Tony LaRussa are in the Hall of Fame when so much cheating occurred on their teams.
For those who claim that in America sports cheating penalties are inflicted on only the individuals involved, ask Penn State. Or the New England Patriots. But it does raise the question of why Joe Torrre and Tony LaRussa are in the Hall of Fame when so much cheating occurred on their teams.
Pathetic, but not worth a geopolitical earthquake. Let the Wookie win.
2
Hmmm. The Russians were cheating? Like that's something new.
2
I don't believe Russia should be banned. That sounds more like an act of Spite than dealing with the problem. Unless you can prove 100 % of Russian athletes are on drugs you should not ban the whole country.
Remember it is not just Russian Athletes who take drugs - athletes from other country also take them, but you may not have caught the. You should think about banning every country who has an athlete on drugs if you plan to ban RUssia. You should ban the US too - our athletes take drugs.
Remember it is not just Russian Athletes who take drugs - athletes from other country also take them, but you may not have caught the. You should think about banning every country who has an athlete on drugs if you plan to ban RUssia. You should ban the US too - our athletes take drugs.
4
somewhat related, or not. ;)
return the games to greece.
permanently. that was the original idea in 1896...
i even suggest to the original ancient site of olympia not athens. no corrupt bidding. a relatively easy area to keep secure, monies for the struggling greek economy, limit those fat cats up in switzerland from continuing to dirty the games in all ways...and so so many more positives. like; hopefully a return to the original olympic ideals with the emphasis on the athletes.
by having a permanent site for the summer games i am thinking you just might have more resources to go after dopers and corrupt officials.
a greek-american kid can wish...
return the games to greece.
permanently. that was the original idea in 1896...
i even suggest to the original ancient site of olympia not athens. no corrupt bidding. a relatively easy area to keep secure, monies for the struggling greek economy, limit those fat cats up in switzerland from continuing to dirty the games in all ways...and so so many more positives. like; hopefully a return to the original olympic ideals with the emphasis on the athletes.
by having a permanent site for the summer games i am thinking you just might have more resources to go after dopers and corrupt officials.
a greek-american kid can wish...
2
Well...there is a good side in this - Russian people just will save hundreds of millions of dollars of their tax payer money.
2
Good! About high time too..Russia makes cheating a national pastime.
4
If we truly wanted to watch the best athletes, their nation of origin wouldn't matter. They'd all be dressed the same, and run, or swim, or high jump. On the medals stand, we'd learn for the first time where they came from. Imagine how completely subjective sports like skating, diving and gymnastics would be scored if the judges were unaware of which countries Athletes 1-15 came from, and actually graded their performance on merit, rather than back-room deals or "saving room" (i.e. lower scores for the early participants) for the presumed front-runner?
So much for imagining. If the athletes aren't doping, then the officials are fixing. Frankly, there's far more honest competition and excitement watching the kids at my local high school, true amateurs all, compete. The Olympics is what competition looks like when the desire for fame and endorsements drives personal and national behavior.
So much for imagining. If the athletes aren't doping, then the officials are fixing. Frankly, there's far more honest competition and excitement watching the kids at my local high school, true amateurs all, compete. The Olympics is what competition looks like when the desire for fame and endorsements drives personal and national behavior.
5
Everything is always better without Russians.
2
Honestly I could care less. I just care about tennis and I will be rooting for Rafael Nadal - a player who recently sued a French minister who accused him of doping. I hope he wins the lawsuit and wins the gold medal again.
2
First the IOC is not going to ban the entire Russian team and they shouldn't. Punish the gulty not the innocent. Fair punishment is to overturn the award of medals to Russian athletes that we now know to have been doping at Sochi. Test the Russian team before the Rio games for PED's and ban those who have doped and allow the clean athletes to compete. They deserve better than a blanket ban for crimes they didn't commit. Put the Russian teams under enhanced scrutiny for the next four years as punishment for its past cheating. Take Rusia out of consideration for hosting another Olympic games for some extended period of years.
Banning the entire team is something the NCAA would stupidly do. Some one does something so the entire program suffers and the culprits generally go without harm. It's just a stupid methodology that is unfair.
Banning the entire team is something the NCAA would stupidly do. Some one does something so the entire program suffers and the culprits generally go without harm. It's just a stupid methodology that is unfair.
2
So, what you're proposing in other words, is a system where all athletes should dope because the only punishment for getting caught is getting their medals taken away. That makes about as much sense as anti-shoplifting rules where the only punishment is having to return the loot after you've used it for a bit. I don't think you've thought this one through very well, especially when we're dealing with massive state sponsored cheating and what surely must be the greatest sports cheating scandal in all of history by a long ways.
7
"...Mr. Putin...asked for “fuller, more objective information that is based on facts.”...“Today we see a dangerous relapse of politics intruding into sports,” he said...
It never ceases to amaze me how a politician can stay perfectly straight faced while being utterly and ridiculously obtuse before an overwhelming mountain of irrefutable evidence...and politics, Mr. Putin, "intruding into" not just sports but all aspects of international human endeavor is no greater today than it has ever been, no less than completely.
It never ceases to amaze me how a politician can stay perfectly straight faced while being utterly and ridiculously obtuse before an overwhelming mountain of irrefutable evidence...and politics, Mr. Putin, "intruding into" not just sports but all aspects of international human endeavor is no greater today than it has ever been, no less than completely.
9
The Olympics have been rotten to the core for decades. Making a fuss about this as the world disintegrates is preposterous.
There re very few people who actually benefit from the Olympic Games. Certainly the IOC does; it is already monumentally wealthy and just gets wealthier, as do all its members. Some athletes do well as winners- I would imagine that a gold medal secures your place as a motivational speaker and program director. The host cities, by contrast, generally lose their shirts; Rio, the host city for 2016, seems well in danger of losing not only its shirt but its underwear as well. Private companies who sponsor the Games seem to do very well.
A rational format for holding the Games would be to build permanent venues which would hold, for example, four or five cycles of the Games. This would ensure that the host cities had time to build stable and sturdy facilities and that full use would be made of them for decades. Why not start with Athens for the summer Games? Greece could use the tourist dollars and it would restore some semblance of sanity to events which as it now stands make FIFA look positively clean by comparison.
There re very few people who actually benefit from the Olympic Games. Certainly the IOC does; it is already monumentally wealthy and just gets wealthier, as do all its members. Some athletes do well as winners- I would imagine that a gold medal secures your place as a motivational speaker and program director. The host cities, by contrast, generally lose their shirts; Rio, the host city for 2016, seems well in danger of losing not only its shirt but its underwear as well. Private companies who sponsor the Games seem to do very well.
A rational format for holding the Games would be to build permanent venues which would hold, for example, four or five cycles of the Games. This would ensure that the host cities had time to build stable and sturdy facilities and that full use would be made of them for decades. Why not start with Athens for the summer Games? Greece could use the tourist dollars and it would restore some semblance of sanity to events which as it now stands make FIFA look positively clean by comparison.
1
You said the host city lost out but then say Athens could use the tourists money. Guess what? Athens' tourism profile was boosted by the Olympic as well as the metro which received EU funding for upgrades for the Olympics.
1
There is an important difference between state sponsored doping and doping pursued by individual athletes. When an athlete tries to dope and is discovered, the athlete would normally be subject to sanctions, typically suspension or even a permanent ban. When the doping is state sponsored, there is always a question of whether the athlete participated voluntarily, but whether voluntary or not, it directly infects the integrity of the offending state's athletes and the games in which they compete. There are very few options other than complete suspension despite the harshness of that choice for some athletes who might have been able to avoid participating in the doping.
4
How Trumpesque of Putin to sound the victim to his own creation by saying politics is returning to sports. The perpetrator declares victim status. A tried and true practice of deception.
9
Remember the stories running up to Beijing Olympic, Sochi and now Rio? Beijing have no clear sky and air unbreathable (apparently LA in 84 was breathable), Sochi has no snow, Rio has no sewage, etc. If an Olympic is not hold in NATO countries, it is not good.
3
i used to think that the olympics were for non-professional athletes who were interested in the joy of representing their country in competition with similar athletes from other countries.
now i am aware that it is all about the large sums of money for some of the athletes and many of the adults involved in the competition. is this why some of the athletes cheat and drug?
i am no longer interested in the games other than the swimming competition.
now i am aware that it is all about the large sums of money for some of the athletes and many of the adults involved in the competition. is this why some of the athletes cheat and drug?
i am no longer interested in the games other than the swimming competition.
2
I see many Kremlin apologists drawing comparisons between Lance Armstrong and the state-sponsored Russian doping program. The big difference is that Lance was not aided and abetted by the US government, and he was ultimately held accountable and shamed for his doping. What the World Anti-Doping Agency has uncovered is massive state-sponsored doping on a scale not seen since the Cold War. Russia abused its position as host of athletic competitions to hide the doping of dozens of its athletes.
It is not only in the interests of fairness that Russia should be held accountable. Doping endangers the lives of the athletes. The unmasking of the East German doping program revealed not only gold medals and world records won via chemistry, but a long line of athletes who suffered unnatural, psychologically traumatic physical transformations; ruined reproductive capacity; and premature death.
Time to hold Russia accountable.
It is not only in the interests of fairness that Russia should be held accountable. Doping endangers the lives of the athletes. The unmasking of the East German doping program revealed not only gold medals and world records won via chemistry, but a long line of athletes who suffered unnatural, psychologically traumatic physical transformations; ruined reproductive capacity; and premature death.
Time to hold Russia accountable.
20
Lance was "captain" of the US Postal Service Pro Cycling Team.
1
Lance acting as an independent agent is a half-truth at best and misleading regardless. There were spouses, doctors, and teammates involved in the Armstrong scam. Competing teams were certainly aware as well. The only thing unproven is whether or when the corporate sponsors knew about it. You might even speculate that doping was encouraged by the sponsors. In which case, in our strange free-market mindset, that would be equivalent to state sponsorship. Especially considering Armstrong rode for the USPS.
I'll agree Russia is different in that Lance was taken to task. I think Russia should be punished for their actions. However, given the broader context, couldn't you consider Armstrong something of a fall-guy within a larger scam? Suddenly, the conversation begins overlapping with discussions in other professional sports. I think most athletes want to do right and simply compete. Unfortunately, whether here or in Russia, that's not quite so simple anymore. Please, don't try to wag the finger too much.
I'll agree Russia is different in that Lance was taken to task. I think Russia should be punished for their actions. However, given the broader context, couldn't you consider Armstrong something of a fall-guy within a larger scam? Suddenly, the conversation begins overlapping with discussions in other professional sports. I think most athletes want to do right and simply compete. Unfortunately, whether here or in Russia, that's not quite so simple anymore. Please, don't try to wag the finger too much.
1
Right. In fact, Lance was brought down by USADA, a U.S. government organization! For the comparison to be valid, the Russian anti-doping authorities would have to be trying to catch cheaters rather than help them!
1
To everyone whining about Lance Armstrong and athletic doping in the US I say to you is there any instance where doping was sanctioned and ordered by the President of the United States? Is there any evidence that the doping was organized, supplied, administered, and monitored by the US Olympic Committee? Are there any circumstances under which the doping was aided and enabled by the FBI or the CIA? No? Then whatever doping that US athletes have done whether under the guidance of their trainers or their teams or even their sponsors does not even come close to the sheer scale, temerity, and brazenness of Russia's actions recently uncovered.
7
First, let's be honest everyone is doping in some manner or form. Second, this is what happens when a state run government tries to dope---they should have let the free market crowd do their thing.
4
And yet one of the world's most notorious cheats and dopers is American - Lance Armstrong. For years American sports authorities and sponsors refused to believe the obvious because Armstrong was winning and making rich. Before getting too upset about Russian cheating, nations demanding a Russian ban should probably take a long, hard look at their own athletes. Often, the ones who are not caught are those who have the most sophisticated means to avoid detection.
3
You're comparing individual doping (Armstrong) with state-sponsored doping carried out by a government, its official testing apparatus, and multiple athletes from the same country (Russia). There's no moral equivalence there, and any attempt to even suggest it is specious.
1
The most famous would be Marion Jones who had to return her 3 gold and 2 bronze medals from the 2000 Olympics.
1
If the Russians were doping and getting away with it then other teams were too. Is the US getting banned because of Lance Armstrong? Didn't he ride for the US Postal service?
Have we ever banned a baseball team for the dirty work of the players or staff?
Some sports have such a long history of cheating that honest athletes have probably avoided them or quit trying to compete.
There is so much corruption in international sports maybe the entire Olympic Games should be suspended until they can figure this out.
Have we ever banned a baseball team for the dirty work of the players or staff?
Some sports have such a long history of cheating that honest athletes have probably avoided them or quit trying to compete.
There is so much corruption in international sports maybe the entire Olympic Games should be suspended until they can figure this out.
9
If individuals dope, you ban the individual.
If a country runs a covert, systematic doping program, then you ban the country.
If a country runs a covert, systematic doping program, then you ban the country.
9
A false equivalence, Billy boy...yes Lance Armstrong cheated, a lot, and yes his sponsor was the U.S. Postal service, but did the C.I.A. send agents to help him change his urine samples, and the samples of other riders?...and what was the punishment?
He has been stripped of all his tainted medals, banned from participating, as well as any associated with him. This report validates the accusations of one of the doctors involved in the actual swapping of urine samples, ordered by the Russian Government officials.
The other two doctors are dead...
second question...Yes, the Chicago White Sox were banned from baseball for cheating and betting...'shoeless' Joe Jackson...Pete Rose...yes individuals cheat, but when a systematic program by an entire country is uncovered...what would you do? ban the Olympics...?
It is not a perfect metaphor, but Alcohol is abused by some, so we tried banning Alcohol - Prohibition. It led to obscene corruption, gang violence to gain control of the lucrative trade, an entire decade of madness...much better to strive for adequate control and oversight of the potential problems, and punishment when due, such as losing your license for driving drunk.
He has been stripped of all his tainted medals, banned from participating, as well as any associated with him. This report validates the accusations of one of the doctors involved in the actual swapping of urine samples, ordered by the Russian Government officials.
The other two doctors are dead...
second question...Yes, the Chicago White Sox were banned from baseball for cheating and betting...'shoeless' Joe Jackson...Pete Rose...yes individuals cheat, but when a systematic program by an entire country is uncovered...what would you do? ban the Olympics...?
It is not a perfect metaphor, but Alcohol is abused by some, so we tried banning Alcohol - Prohibition. It led to obscene corruption, gang violence to gain control of the lucrative trade, an entire decade of madness...much better to strive for adequate control and oversight of the potential problems, and punishment when due, such as losing your license for driving drunk.
5
Sorry but people are killing cops as my country falls apart. Sorry if I don't give a flying frack about Russia doping for the Pagan Games. They aren't the only country that cheats. Remember Lance Armstrong. He probably did it for years before he was called on it.
9
Your Lance Armstrong analogy is flawed, but an explanation is worthless to the person who needs one.
2
The real contest is between the dopers and the anti's. The "games" are just the cover, and the fans are the gulls. Wait. I'm a fan, well, a former fan.
2
Despite the fact that systematic doping was most probably conducted in Russia, I still believe that the west should uphold the iron principles of due process and punishment only for individuals whose personal culpability has been proven. Collective punishment, which will necessarily include many who are completely innocent, is alien to any country that believes in the rule of law.
3
Next up. A full review of Russia's nuclear weapons arms controls, accounting, and reporting.
Don't Trust and Reverify
Don't Trust and Reverify
1
Now that we are on this topic, can the Times also investigate how the Chinese falsified the birth certificates of their gymnasts?
6
While it is true, IMO, that Russia is a country with too much cheating, I feel there is a bit of truth to Putin’s response. Rather than encourage Russia after the USSR, the US has used every opportunity to discredit Russia, and turn the CIS (former USSR) states against Russia. And, understandably, this anti-Rus campaign has been stepped-up since Crimea. And yet, Crimea itself was a response to the US’s constant (bloody, life-wrecking) influence in the (former and current) CIS (Georgia, Chechnya, Ukraine).
Surveys indicate that in the early 90s the vast majority of Russians wanted to be more like America. But after two decades of the US telling Russia how little integrity it has, few people like the US today, and most now support Putin. America’s policy has been near-sighted. Hypocritically, the US has no problem working with China and Saudi Arabia, but Russia is the devil. Evidently, you need China and SA more than you need Russia.
So, while I don’t disagree that Russia should pay for state sponsored Olympic cheating, keep in mind that America’s constant demonization is counter-productive. Believe me; the world is better off with a stronger Russia - for many reasons.
Surveys indicate that in the early 90s the vast majority of Russians wanted to be more like America. But after two decades of the US telling Russia how little integrity it has, few people like the US today, and most now support Putin. America’s policy has been near-sighted. Hypocritically, the US has no problem working with China and Saudi Arabia, but Russia is the devil. Evidently, you need China and SA more than you need Russia.
So, while I don’t disagree that Russia should pay for state sponsored Olympic cheating, keep in mind that America’s constant demonization is counter-productive. Believe me; the world is better off with a stronger Russia - for many reasons.
5
Can you point to us to a single example of actual demonization of Russia by the USA? Just one? I see a russia that was the recipient of huge amounts of rebuilding aid (much more on a per capita basis than other CIS states), was invited to the G-8 even though it had no legitimate business of being there, had its space program propped up for years and invited to be an 'equal partner' even thoug it was bankrupt, and which still to this day produces nothing of any saleable value outside of energy and a few token natural resources despite a supposed massive amount of brainpower. Can you give us one concrete example of this supposed demonization? Just one?
2
"Few people like the US today, and most support Putin"
That's simply untrue. According to recent Europe-wide polling, including by the Pew organization, Russia's prestige is in the cellar -- a country where the average man lives only to age 63 (below that of India and Pakistan). The US actually enjoys rather high prestige, and Obama is still the most popular head of state in the world. Putin is generally feared, sometimes loathed, outside the Eurasian Economic Alliance.
That's simply untrue. According to recent Europe-wide polling, including by the Pew organization, Russia's prestige is in the cellar -- a country where the average man lives only to age 63 (below that of India and Pakistan). The US actually enjoys rather high prestige, and Obama is still the most popular head of state in the world. Putin is generally feared, sometimes loathed, outside the Eurasian Economic Alliance.
1
Five insufferable weeks dead ahead. Two rigged, pointless political conventions here capped, if that's the proper word, by the corrupt, debased, decrepit Olympic Games in corrupt, debased, decrepit Brazil; the only things missing from that debacle Russians and FIFA's Sepp Blatter, who by all accounts deserve each other.
"But what do Blatter's FIFA and the so-called 'Olympic movement' have in common?", it might fairly be asked. Different sides of the same con, that same worthless counterfeit coin, like our too-excruciating-to-watch quadrennial presidential nominating conventions.
I intend to boycott it all, won't watch a single hour. As if that could make a difference or make it go away. But turning a blind eye pretending it isn't happening won't help either because I will still be stuck with the bill, and consequences. That's built into the price of everything I buy, and it deforms the world in which I battle to survive; what makes it so appalling. I don't watch it. I don't want it. But I end up paying for it all the same, like the millions of poor in Rio's favelas and billions more worldwide.
The show must go on, I suppose. But all those "free" broadcasts should be curtailed, or put behind subscriber pay-walls, or the events themselves simply cancelled out of deference to common decency and the dulled sensibilities of mankind.
"But what do Blatter's FIFA and the so-called 'Olympic movement' have in common?", it might fairly be asked. Different sides of the same con, that same worthless counterfeit coin, like our too-excruciating-to-watch quadrennial presidential nominating conventions.
I intend to boycott it all, won't watch a single hour. As if that could make a difference or make it go away. But turning a blind eye pretending it isn't happening won't help either because I will still be stuck with the bill, and consequences. That's built into the price of everything I buy, and it deforms the world in which I battle to survive; what makes it so appalling. I don't watch it. I don't want it. But I end up paying for it all the same, like the millions of poor in Rio's favelas and billions more worldwide.
The show must go on, I suppose. But all those "free" broadcasts should be curtailed, or put behind subscriber pay-walls, or the events themselves simply cancelled out of deference to common decency and the dulled sensibilities of mankind.
1
So the urine of some Russian sporters was exchanged and now the NYT wants to punish all Russian sporters for that. That is not the olympic spirit as I understand it.
Sorry to see that there are still people complaining that "honest sporters" now get unfair competition. If everyone who ever tried forbidden substances was excluded from the Olympics that would be the end of the Olympic Games.
Sorry to see that there are still people complaining that "honest sporters" now get unfair competition. If everyone who ever tried forbidden substances was excluded from the Olympics that would be the end of the Olympic Games.
6
Still time to call China and have them do the Olympics. Brazil is a disaster to hold the Olympics.
2
Is Rio actually going to have any Olympic games? The news coming out of Rio isn't very good.
4
Sorry "Bosco" Putin. I think we understand you have overseen creation of a Russia that is an institutionally criminal state. You get what you pay for.
6
The Putin-paid trolls come flocking, like moths to a flame. You're not convincing anyone, trolls. Putin's invaded Crimea, attacked Ukraine, shot down a civilian airliner, murdered numerous political opponents, pilfered billions in Russia's assets, etc. Doping athletes pales by comparison, but at least he'd be held accountable for something.
16
Do you have any proof there are paid trolls here? People accused me of being paid all the time yet I haven't received a cent from comments on NYTimes. I couldn't be the only one so I would imagine a lot of "paid trolls" you are accusing are just regular people. Unless of course you have proof just like you have proof Russian dopes.
3
Take away all the medals from those who cheated. Is there evidence the doping continues for the entire team? I was under the impression that there are some Russian athletes who have trained independently. They shouldn't be punished for the team members who have doped or for the team who was party to the doping and lab work at Sochi.
3
What does "honest athlete" mean? In this country (the US), even the 10th rate football high school players take steroids, paid by the local boosters instead of the government. Get real - there is no such thing as "clean" top rated athletes. If an athlete is completely drug-free, then they are definitely not participating in the Olympics. Maybe we should just stop pretending that amateur athletes exist at the highest levels of any sport.
7
If you have proof of your " there is no such thing as 'clean' top rated athletes" assertion other than your "argument from personal incredulity", let's have it and you'll win a dozen pulitzer prizes.
5
May Face Olympics Ban?
With the plethora of confirmed investigations and issued reports of systemic government sponsored cheating, bribing and doping by both the old Soviet and the current Russian governments...why isn't a Russian ban for Rio a done deal?
With the plethora of confirmed investigations and issued reports of systemic government sponsored cheating, bribing and doping by both the old Soviet and the current Russian governments...why isn't a Russian ban for Rio a done deal?
8
Because the Olympics is not an US run club. Just because US and Canada came up with some proof doesn't mean it will pass international scrutiny.
3
Its a shame that now everything has be politics.....Politics and propaganda 24/7365 we have our share of famous sport figures using drugs, Marion Jones
and Lance Amstrong us to name a few. In this field there are not saints!!
and Lance Amstrong us to name a few. In this field there are not saints!!
3
Russian greatness can't stand on it's own, especially under Putin's leadership; it mainly exists through lies, bluster and props. Not unlike trump and his Cleveland convention.
14
These allegations have been alleged against the Soviet Union, and now Russia for years. This is the first time that the world has really done anything about it. Why should the honest, clean athletes be penalized by this illegality, and have to compete against doped up opponents?
3
In prime time there is no honest clean athlete anymore. They're professionals made up to look amateur.
1
There is cheating and doping in all sports - amateur or professional. It's hard tp believe that 25 years since the demise of the Soviet Union there still exists a pervasive anti-Russian mentality in the U.S. It smacks of parochialism and the tiresome mentality expressed by those who shout: "U.S. A. no. 1!." I say: give it a rest.
7
@joseph gmuca
phoenix az
The problem is not the USA but the Russian state whose inferiority complex about everything forces them into this sort of behavior in even the sports world. Other athletes should simple refuse to compete against these cheaters. You can't blame most of the individual athletes who are probably under state pressure to dope.
phoenix az
The problem is not the USA but the Russian state whose inferiority complex about everything forces them into this sort of behavior in even the sports world. Other athletes should simple refuse to compete against these cheaters. You can't blame most of the individual athletes who are probably under state pressure to dope.
7
There is cheating and doping in many sports. However, despite your predictable whataboutism and conspiracy-slinging, only Russia has provably engaged in massive, pervasive, state sponsored doping. By contrast, for example, in the USA and elsewhere, state agencies have worked to expose their own doping athletes. Furthermore still, the same forces that have exposed Russia's unprecedted perfidity here are the same ones who exposed Lance Armstrong--so much for your claims of pro-American anti-Russian bias or whatever. Russia needs to be banned immediately not just from Rio 2016, but from Tokyo 2020 and on until the Russians actually own up to their fibs - be it the invasion of Eastern Ukraine, their shooting down of MH17, their use of cluster weapons on civilians in Syria.
6
Face facts - the Russians cheated
5
Oh my, the Olympic Gold for Russia for sure !! Just read a few pages from 92 on, of the report of an internal letter from one Russian Official to another, and you will be horrified. This letter also shines a bright light on the CORRUPTION of officials, OUTSIDE of Russia. The Doping has been ONGOING for 20 years and NO ONE at WADA, the IAAF, the IOC, and other orgs knew? Of course they did.
2
Yes it is HORRFIED...please do not make full of your self. They do not know how but they are sure it is possible (About Sochi olympics games) I do not know how "Peter kill the Joe" but i know that is possible.And so i pledged on judge to PUNISHED ALL PETER in AMERICA...Same thing is whit so called main whistle blower from Russia, which A.D Laboratory in Russia is closed , and now same person have his A.D Laboratory in USA he working normally and whit out any consequence...Just in those fact can put it all, USA hypocrisy and not double but triple moral standards and generally any who have 0.5% of healthy brain, knows that all is pure Politics and attempt to punished Russia because it's not allow that Sevastopol on Crimea become NATO navy Base....But life's going on, my suggestion is that to USA citizens much better be to think why Afro-American ex marines killing the police man.Does it Russian representation will be banished from O.G in Brasil, almost 99,99999% yes, Does it Russia and her athletes will survive that ....yes for sure.....But Does it USA will Survive all her disgusting atrocity and generally fully colonial Empire behave...we will see. Bay Russo-phob's and other xenophobes.
1
Is it possible for a human to perform at these levels without seriously modifying their bodies and minds? We accept enormous pill pushing and chemical and genetic flow toward any ailment or condition. Why is doping any different? Why is Viagra not banned? It is unfair performance enhancement when women have no real competitive counterdrug. Absurd waste of time. Let them dope. Who are we fooling?
1
Just another reason for the poor Russian citizens to drink more...seriously: their government for decades has not demonstrated one shred of integrity nationally or internationally...just one long systematic fraud against the the people. How sad and pathetic.
10
“Today we see a dangerous relapse of politics intruding into sports,” coming from the POLITICIAN Vladimir Putin whose Administration has just been found guilty of corrupting the Spirit Sport so that Russia can be seen as a "successful and Powerful Nation" , the same Image Mr Putin the Politician has been trying to project from the Kremlin... Coincidence?
14
It is time to acknowledge that the roots of the modern Olympic movement emerge from European nationalism and are the same that gave rise to two world wars. The Olympics is not about peace. It is about nationalism and politics. For worthless leaders like Putin the Olympics is a diversion for his people from the real problems they face. Any way one looks at it, there is more harm than good from this freak show.
15
What an awful way for young people to be introduced to the Olympics!
One could say the same for politics this year as well.
Is there any room left for idealism? Maybe it's irrational, but I hope so. A time before the scales fall from their eyes.
One could say the same for politics this year as well.
Is there any room left for idealism? Maybe it's irrational, but I hope so. A time before the scales fall from their eyes.
7
“Today we see a dangerous relapse of politics intruding into sports,” -Vladimir Putin
Russia has politicized sport for quite the number the years. Not the relapse but rather the result of Russian actions wherafrom the chickens now come home to roost. Russia should be banned from the Olympics.
Russia has politicized sport for quite the number the years. Not the relapse but rather the result of Russian actions wherafrom the chickens now come home to roost. Russia should be banned from the Olympics.
42
Bad enough there's doping. But when it's condoned, planned, carried out and supervised by a state, an autocratic one at that, then the corruption is so systemic as to expose rot from top to bottom. Athletes caught in a system. Now betrayed. Coaches, doctors, entire laboratories. All complicit. Who can doubt it comes all the way from the top? Whether via personal authorization or a wink and a nod.
I have little doubt high prices will be paid. Except, as usual, for those at the very top.
One grows weary. With the weight of so many outrages. One following upon the next. No time to recover before the next tragedy or horror or malice comes to light.
I have little doubt high prices will be paid. Except, as usual, for those at the very top.
One grows weary. With the weight of so many outrages. One following upon the next. No time to recover before the next tragedy or horror or malice comes to light.
7
What's the big deal? The Olympics are just a huge corporation with scarcely compensated workers. This is no different from Apple and Facebook bribing China in multiple ways in order to get preferential treatment.
Let's keep in mind 1968 and the Olympics' treatment of John Carlos and Tommie Smith for silently acknowledging that they were second class citizens in a country that used their success for bragging rights. Or that Mexico massacred a couple hundred young people that year in order to "clean up" Mexico City at the behest of the Olympic movement. Or the 1972 Olympics, when the Olympics refused to stop the "games" (sic!!!), after eleven Israeli athletes were massacred by a Palestinian group, Black September, which was named after a Jordanian/Palestinian conflict after an attempted coup.
Yep, the Olympics IS just a mega-corporation, and it acts accordingly. Enjoy the circus. No disrespect to the athletes, who I largely admire, but let's stop pretending it is anything other than what it is. People buy iPhones no matter how badly workers are treated and how corrupt the management is because they like the product. Ditto for the Olympics.
Oh, yes, and let's not forget the Olympics went to court to stop the Gay Olympics from using the name, thus producing the Gay Games.
Let's keep in mind 1968 and the Olympics' treatment of John Carlos and Tommie Smith for silently acknowledging that they were second class citizens in a country that used their success for bragging rights. Or that Mexico massacred a couple hundred young people that year in order to "clean up" Mexico City at the behest of the Olympic movement. Or the 1972 Olympics, when the Olympics refused to stop the "games" (sic!!!), after eleven Israeli athletes were massacred by a Palestinian group, Black September, which was named after a Jordanian/Palestinian conflict after an attempted coup.
Yep, the Olympics IS just a mega-corporation, and it acts accordingly. Enjoy the circus. No disrespect to the athletes, who I largely admire, but let's stop pretending it is anything other than what it is. People buy iPhones no matter how badly workers are treated and how corrupt the management is because they like the product. Ditto for the Olympics.
Oh, yes, and let's not forget the Olympics went to court to stop the Gay Olympics from using the name, thus producing the Gay Games.
18
Let's not forget the Olympics went to court to protect their registered name and trademark? Why, the nerve of those people!
Russians are always skeptical, like you. But yes, screw Olympics. Far too much money at stake.
Perhaps the Russians have a more sane perspective on the use of performance enhancing drugs. America is still hearing the echoes of the Nancy Reagan hysteria. If they make you a better athlete, let's consider using them. Why does Major League Baseball eschew the use of steroids but encourage the use of performance enhancing surgery?
4
The Olympics should find a permanent home and stop in adding poor countires like Brazil where the working class and poor people could use the money being spent on these games. The pollution and the crime put the athletes at risk. Let's stop pretending this is any more than a business.and start running it that way!
17
When I was a young kid, I was mesmerized by the Olympic Games. The athletes were amateurs (except for the Soviet Bloc), and doping didn't exist. There was a wonderful innocence and complete lack of cynicism about the Games. Oh, how I wanted to be Donna DeVarona (look her up on Wikipedia) or one of the other fresh-faced blonde women from Southern California setting records in the pool. The thought of missing any of the events on TV would never have crossed my mind.
And today? The Olympics is a joke. Doping is rampant, poor people are tossed out of their homes to make way for new stadiums, judges cheat, and a large number of the athletes are pampered professionals (many of whom wouldn't dream of lowering themselves to stay in the Olympic Village). In the case of Rio, the corruption and incompetence appears limitless, and on top of that the Zika virus is going to result in "Olympic babies" being born with microcephaly.
This may be the first time in my life I don't bother to watch the Games.
And today? The Olympics is a joke. Doping is rampant, poor people are tossed out of their homes to make way for new stadiums, judges cheat, and a large number of the athletes are pampered professionals (many of whom wouldn't dream of lowering themselves to stay in the Olympic Village). In the case of Rio, the corruption and incompetence appears limitless, and on top of that the Zika virus is going to result in "Olympic babies" being born with microcephaly.
This may be the first time in my life I don't bother to watch the Games.
9
many people would agree with your comment. I do, to a point. however, the American system of stoo dent ath a leets in colleges and universities didn't/doesn't seem all that purely amateur. for all intents and purposes many are mercenaries getting incredible breaks to play sports without worrying much about class. i'm not inferring they were equal to say, the soviet union's red army hockey team which dominated the Olympics but they weren't as pure as the driven snow.
3
For example, both USA and USSR weightlifting teams were using steroids as early as in the 60s.....I wonder when you were "mesmerized by the Olympic games"...in the 40s? and why one would not be mesmerized by the athletes that use doping...in fact, how can you tell by the appearance if one is using it and the other is not? All this drug testing is a farce and big hypocrisy i.e. everyone at the top level is using it, yet they are so-called drug-free on the day of competition.
1
Chairman Avery Brundage was adamantly against professional athletes competing in the games. Now, we have "dream teams" of professionals, competing against amateurs. In 1980, the Olympic committee named Electrolux as the "Official Vacuum Cleaner of the Games." That's when I began to loose all interest.
Perhaps, to salvage what is left, we simply create a medal for the "Best Doping Regimen", and add that to Synchronized Swimming and maybe Dancing With The Stars . . . Long Live the Olympic Games!
Perhaps, to salvage what is left, we simply create a medal for the "Best Doping Regimen", and add that to Synchronized Swimming and maybe Dancing With The Stars . . . Long Live the Olympic Games!
3
Orders came from Putin himself to do whatever it took for Russia to win as many medals as possible at the Sochi Olympics. Hence the rampant doping, with the knowledge and encouragement of the Russian Federation.
Let's see if the IOC can grow a pair and do the right thing by banning the entire Russian Olympic team from the 2016 Games. No one will miss them.
Let's see if the IOC can grow a pair and do the right thing by banning the entire Russian Olympic team from the 2016 Games. No one will miss them.
13
Trump and Putin, an axis of evil.
9
It makes me not want to watch the Olympics at all. If Russia is cheating, others must be cheating, too.
I also don't like that Brazil which has enormous economic problems is going to lose billions on this event. With Zika and the threat of uncontrolled crime, I bet attendance is low.
One more thing. I hate the idea that the athletes will be risking hard to cure illness just by boating in polluted waters.
I used to think, it's great to see the best in the world in so many different ways. I always used to watch endless hours. But I don't feel good about it at all this year.
I also don't like that Brazil which has enormous economic problems is going to lose billions on this event. With Zika and the threat of uncontrolled crime, I bet attendance is low.
One more thing. I hate the idea that the athletes will be risking hard to cure illness just by boating in polluted waters.
I used to think, it's great to see the best in the world in so many different ways. I always used to watch endless hours. But I don't feel good about it at all this year.
6
The Olympics ended once the professional athletes entered the games. Now the Olympics are just a marketing vehicle for corporations. I long for the amateur athletes who scraped by on handouts while training to represent their countries. Now it's just a financed training mill.
Bruce Jenner may wear high heals now but, in his day, he was an armature. Michael Phelps is just a corporate logo who swims fast
The Olympic games are over in my view. Now it's just pure entertainment.
Bruce Jenner may wear high heals now but, in his day, he was an armature. Michael Phelps is just a corporate logo who swims fast
The Olympic games are over in my view. Now it's just pure entertainment.
8
What a joker this guy. It doesn't bode well for the future of Russia that its leader sanctions cheating. Russia clearly does not deserve a spot at the "big kid" table in any substantive global endeavor. They certainly shouldn't be on the UNHRC.
4
He was on the KGB - where intrigue and mendacity are expected and celebrated. Russia, sadly, is a country run by thugs.
13
I keep on reading comments saying the Olympics are just a mega circus aimed at enriching a few people behind the IOC doors. cancel the Olympics! While you are correct in that it has been turned into a money making venture; let's not forget the athletes who postpone their lives for the chance to prove themselves against the world. for those people who do not or have not competed at an elite level it may seem like a childish pursuit that should just be forgotten and put aside so we can join the 9-5 grind and make something of ourselves.
Not every athlete is Usain Bolt or Phelps who earn millions and millions. in fact the majority of Olympians DO work part time or full time jobs. We are no different from the average person except that we've decided to pursue a goal/dream whatever you want to call it. A goal to be the best we can be compared to others from all over the world. The tears of joy or despair you see on TV isn't because an athlete just scored 10k for winning a gold medal. it's because they've proven to themselves exactly what they always believed - or because they never reached the goals they had set for themselves and are hurting thinking about all the family and supporters back home they may have disappointed.
Please keep in mind that thousands of people all over the world treat their sport as a part of their life. Dismissing the event that serves as the final test after all the self doubt, personal injury and sacrifice as something irrelevant seems narrow minded
Not every athlete is Usain Bolt or Phelps who earn millions and millions. in fact the majority of Olympians DO work part time or full time jobs. We are no different from the average person except that we've decided to pursue a goal/dream whatever you want to call it. A goal to be the best we can be compared to others from all over the world. The tears of joy or despair you see on TV isn't because an athlete just scored 10k for winning a gold medal. it's because they've proven to themselves exactly what they always believed - or because they never reached the goals they had set for themselves and are hurting thinking about all the family and supporters back home they may have disappointed.
Please keep in mind that thousands of people all over the world treat their sport as a part of their life. Dismissing the event that serves as the final test after all the self doubt, personal injury and sacrifice as something irrelevant seems narrow minded
29
Isn't that the whole point? I love the Olympics. I love watching these world-class athletes compete at the pinnacle of their sports, with the history, the pageantry, the themes -- it's wonderful.
But the modern Olympic movement spits on that. Don't blame us for giving up on the Olympics, blame the IOC which has turned the Games into these bloated, offensive monstrosities whose only real purpose seems to be to enrich a few corrupt fat cats while fleecing the ordinary public. Why does it cost billions of dollars to stage these games when the infrastructure already exists elsewhere and that money could be better spent on a million other things? Why are we wasting our resources, our energy, our goodwill on these pointless projects that are white elephants before they're even finished?
I would love to watch genuine Olympians doing their thing. But watching the packaged NBC primetime ad fest? Not so much.
But the modern Olympic movement spits on that. Don't blame us for giving up on the Olympics, blame the IOC which has turned the Games into these bloated, offensive monstrosities whose only real purpose seems to be to enrich a few corrupt fat cats while fleecing the ordinary public. Why does it cost billions of dollars to stage these games when the infrastructure already exists elsewhere and that money could be better spent on a million other things? Why are we wasting our resources, our energy, our goodwill on these pointless projects that are white elephants before they're even finished?
I would love to watch genuine Olympians doing their thing. But watching the packaged NBC primetime ad fest? Not so much.
9
The Olympic idea - the brainchild of a man who today in the US might be a Civil War battle re-enacter - was in hospice for years, then died some time ago. Now we know.
Perhaps it is time to bury the dead.
Cheating at sports is bad, but it might be the least bad kind of cheating that there is. Athletes who do not want to compete against cheaters should stay home. If they go, they should settle for achieving a personal best.
Perhaps it is time to bury the dead.
Cheating at sports is bad, but it might be the least bad kind of cheating that there is. Athletes who do not want to compete against cheaters should stay home. If they go, they should settle for achieving a personal best.
1
A team of state sanctioned cheaters has no place in international competition.
Anyone who has spent time with an individual who was denied the opportunity to stand on a medal podium because of state sanctioned cheaters would agree.
Anyone who has spent time with an individual who was denied the opportunity to stand on a medal podium because of state sanctioned cheaters would agree.
22
Of course Putin is defiant because in the natural order of things lying comes after cheating.
33
Cheers for a thorough investigation and outing the truth. Boos for a really poorly written report. It reads like it was translated from another language by google.
3
This is a red herring to distract from the corruption of the IOC None of the so-called "evidence" would stand up in a fair court of law. Dr. Rodchenkov has as much credibility as Clinton and less that Obama. "The world's leading antidumping officials" are a bunch of political hacks and everyone involved in the Olympics knows it. Why, all of a sudden, are they just now finding "evidence' from Sochi? This "investigation" stinks as much as the IOC.
7
Mark, read the report.... but since you wont
1. Why now? ARD, 60 minutes, and NYTs reporting - caused an public outrage.
2. Dr Rodchenkov, claims are verified by many means (in the report)
3. Read pg 92-97 - Bad english translation - hard read, too detailed, and knowledgable to be fake. And if you are in the know (which I am not) it is a who who of the dirty laundry of russian doping.
4. And yes, the IAAF, IOC, WADA, etc are culpable and have massive blame.
5. The "investigation" WILL STINK, if nothing is done. But .....
6. IS IT NOT AN IDEAL TO HAVE CLEAN COMPETITION?
1. Why now? ARD, 60 minutes, and NYTs reporting - caused an public outrage.
2. Dr Rodchenkov, claims are verified by many means (in the report)
3. Read pg 92-97 - Bad english translation - hard read, too detailed, and knowledgable to be fake. And if you are in the know (which I am not) it is a who who of the dirty laundry of russian doping.
4. And yes, the IAAF, IOC, WADA, etc are culpable and have massive blame.
5. The "investigation" WILL STINK, if nothing is done. But .....
6. IS IT NOT AN IDEAL TO HAVE CLEAN COMPETITION?
“Today, we see a dangerous return of this policy of letting politics interfere with sport,” Putin said.
Yeah well, maybe he should tell his people to quit cheating.
Yeah well, maybe he should tell his people to quit cheating.
51
Perhaps with a wink and a nod. Before during and after.
2
Well, may be you should stop hating and remind yourself how many times US athletes got busted for doping.
6
Why do you think he didn't? Because it's not reported here?
I wonder whether the IOC will live up to the "Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play."
If so, in light of the overwhelming evidence of extensive Russian doping, then the IOC has no choice but to ban the Russians from the Olympic Games. That would be the only way to insure "fair play" in the up coming Olympics Games.
Until that happens, I remain extremely skeptical.
If so, in light of the overwhelming evidence of extensive Russian doping, then the IOC has no choice but to ban the Russians from the Olympic Games. That would be the only way to insure "fair play" in the up coming Olympics Games.
Until that happens, I remain extremely skeptical.
32
I am shocked, absolutely shocked, that the Russia government would ever stoop so low as to try to cheat on a massive scale like this. Shocked. This certainly calls into question their credibility on many other issues on the world stage.
Tongue firmly planted in cheek.
Tongue firmly planted in cheek.
9
Putin is the KGB... you think he doesn't know? I've got a bridge...
7
Cheating and lying only takes you that far. So do statement like "but others do it too".
The current Russian state is a house of card sitting on top of a pyramid of lies. It's not a stable situation, and it is not just the Russians who should worry about that.
The current Russian state is a house of card sitting on top of a pyramid of lies. It's not a stable situation, and it is not just the Russians who should worry about that.
8
The degree of corruption (on virtually all levels) in international sports competitions has become so enmeshed and pervasive that perhaps this is the time to take a step back and reassess whether these made for TV mega-events are a species whose time has come and gone. The arguments have been made ad nauseam as to the true meaning of events like the Summer and Winter Olympics and the World Cups of soccer for men and women. They have become monetary and environmental wastelands in which a select few become enriched through billions of television money, leaving an aftermath of essentially abandoned facilities and economic despair in cities like Rio. I am so thankful that the people of the greater Boston area rose up and were able to successfully scuttle the grossly flawed "bid" for the 2024 summer games. Authoritarian regimes will still bid for the games because they use it for propaganda purposes. The the true spirit of the Olympic games was long lost with total professionalism. The Games should simply fade away as their time has come and gone. Just ask the good people of Rio after the upcoming disaster is over.
6
Banning Russian athletes wouldn't solve the cheating problem, as plenty of other non-Russian athletes do it too. But because their cheating is promoted, funded, and possibly required by the government itself; and because Russia has so many top athletes whose natural talent, when combined with doping, makes them more likely than those from most other countries to benefit from this cheating, they're in a league of their own.
Banning Russian athletes *would*:
* Give clean athletes a better chance at participating in fair competitions.
* Serve as a strong disincentive to other countries that either run state-sponsored cheating machines now or might otherwise consider doing so in the future.
Banning Russian athletes *would*:
* Give clean athletes a better chance at participating in fair competitions.
* Serve as a strong disincentive to other countries that either run state-sponsored cheating machines now or might otherwise consider doing so in the future.
5
Penalize those who engage in use and cover-up of PEDs but not an entire country's delegation. It's unfair to those Russian athletes who play by the rules. There is too much to lose by imposing such a sanction and it's unfair.
2
How exactly do you pick and choose which individual athletes were doped and which weren't? Lance Armstrong has taught us drug tests mean nothing. What about all the athletes who were screwed out of medals they rightfully won? Or coaches fired for not winning enough medals for clean countries? Or entire national sport federations whose budgets were slashed because they underperformed? shall we ignore THEIR suffering. No. Russia must be banned. For every innocent Russian athlete there will be at least one innocent foreign athlete who lost out on medals and income because of the Russian cheats. those numbers alone validate that Russia should be banned. innocent Russians will suffer - but not as many as the innocent non Russian athletes
11
An inability to identify which individuals cheated is a poor argument for banning all Russians.
1
Why watch the Olympics without the Russians? It seems meaningless for a lot of the best sports to watch.
This seems much more like political BS along the lines of Ukraine and putting missiles on Russia's borders, than sports.
Time to end the Olympics. It has become a giant orgy of corporate advertising and excess. Why not tattoo the corporate logos on the athlete's foreheads rather than just on their uniforms and everything else?
This seems much more like political BS along the lines of Ukraine and putting missiles on Russia's borders, than sports.
Time to end the Olympics. It has become a giant orgy of corporate advertising and excess. Why not tattoo the corporate logos on the athlete's foreheads rather than just on their uniforms and everything else?
6
Apparently, the russian athletes were benefit by drugs, so, in Rio 2016, they can be again. Therefore, the Russian flag must be eliminated from Olympic Games, and the exames should continued to be carried out.
1
What's the big deal? The Olympics are just a huge corporation with scarcely compensated workers. This is no different from Apple and Facebook bribing China in multiple ways in order to get preferential treatment.
Let's keep in mind 1968 and the Olympics' treatment of John Carlos and Tommie Smith for silently acknowledging that they were second class citizens in a country that used their success for bragging rights. Or that Mexico massacred a couple hundred young people that year in order to "clean up" Mexico City at the behest of the Olympic movement. Or the 1972 Olympics, when the Olympics refused to stop the "games" (sic!!!), after eleven Israeli athletes were massacred by a Palestinian group, Black September, which was named after a Jordanian/Palestinian conflict after an attempted coup.
Yep, the Olympics are just a mega-corporation, and act accordingly. Enjoy the circus. No disrespect to the athletes, who I largely admire, but let's stop pretending it is anything other than what it is.
Let's keep in mind 1968 and the Olympics' treatment of John Carlos and Tommie Smith for silently acknowledging that they were second class citizens in a country that used their success for bragging rights. Or that Mexico massacred a couple hundred young people that year in order to "clean up" Mexico City at the behest of the Olympic movement. Or the 1972 Olympics, when the Olympics refused to stop the "games" (sic!!!), after eleven Israeli athletes were massacred by a Palestinian group, Black September, which was named after a Jordanian/Palestinian conflict after an attempted coup.
Yep, the Olympics are just a mega-corporation, and act accordingly. Enjoy the circus. No disrespect to the athletes, who I largely admire, but let's stop pretending it is anything other than what it is.
6
"A Russian whistle-blower’s claims of state-run Olympics doping were confirmed by an investigation, just weeks before the Rio Games."
Golly. What a coincidence!
I don't suppose it rises to the level of conflict of interest, but every Canadian who remembers the 1988 Seoul Olympics will be cheering the news that some other country has finally beaten it in the "Worst Olympic Doping Scandal" category (sometimes second place is preferable...).
When Canadian sprinter Ben Johnson was found to have used steroids when smashing world records to win gold in the 100 m dash at Seoul, Canadians were plunged into deep depression, anger and embarrassment after three days of euphoria over their hero's stunning victory--made all the sweeter because he had beaten US superstar Carl Lewis.
It has been described as the moment the world lost its innocence about "amateur" sport and became automatically suspicious of any extraordinary athletic feat, on any occasion. Canadians still shudder at the memory.
And I don't know if it rises to the level of irony that Mr. Rodchenkov, the recent kingpin in Russia's massive doping scam who blew the whistle on his former colleagues and country (after fleeing to California...), will no doubt be signing movie, book, magazine, newspaper and public speaking contracts worth well into seven figures.
It's all about winning the prize, after all--in whatever form it takes and by any means.
Golly. What a coincidence!
I don't suppose it rises to the level of conflict of interest, but every Canadian who remembers the 1988 Seoul Olympics will be cheering the news that some other country has finally beaten it in the "Worst Olympic Doping Scandal" category (sometimes second place is preferable...).
When Canadian sprinter Ben Johnson was found to have used steroids when smashing world records to win gold in the 100 m dash at Seoul, Canadians were plunged into deep depression, anger and embarrassment after three days of euphoria over their hero's stunning victory--made all the sweeter because he had beaten US superstar Carl Lewis.
It has been described as the moment the world lost its innocence about "amateur" sport and became automatically suspicious of any extraordinary athletic feat, on any occasion. Canadians still shudder at the memory.
And I don't know if it rises to the level of irony that Mr. Rodchenkov, the recent kingpin in Russia's massive doping scam who blew the whistle on his former colleagues and country (after fleeing to California...), will no doubt be signing movie, book, magazine, newspaper and public speaking contracts worth well into seven figures.
It's all about winning the prize, after all--in whatever form it takes and by any means.
2
The USSR, and the former satellite states, cheated for year, and never was sanctioned by the IOC. Finally, the chickens have come home to roost. Russia, unlike the USSR, is dominating half of Europe with its finger on the nuclear button.
They cheated, plain in simple and deserve to be kicked out of the Rip Game. Also, their medals fro the Sochi Games should be pulled. And finally, FIFA, should pull the World Cup from Russia.
With all the problems in the world, tainting the Olympics just seem to not to matter to people who want to win at all cost.
They cheated, plain in simple and deserve to be kicked out of the Rip Game. Also, their medals fro the Sochi Games should be pulled. And finally, FIFA, should pull the World Cup from Russia.
With all the problems in the world, tainting the Olympics just seem to not to matter to people who want to win at all cost.
5
Wonderful. The American-led consortium has developed a new crime - "state-run" doping. And a new punishment, state-wide suspension. All because Obama still can't get over his hissy fit about Snowden.
8
The IOC is based in Switzerland and there are no Americans among the top IOC leadership.
But in this post-factual era, for many people, I guess it doesn't matter, as long as a certain agenda is being pushed. If you're of the mindset that Putin is an innocent babe in the woods and everything is an American conspiracy, I guess you can fit this scandal to fit that worldview too.
But in this post-factual era, for many people, I guess it doesn't matter, as long as a certain agenda is being pushed. If you're of the mindset that Putin is an innocent babe in the woods and everything is an American conspiracy, I guess you can fit this scandal to fit that worldview too.
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From the article: While saying that the officials named in the report would be “temporarily suspended,” [Mr. Putin] asked for “fuller, more objective information that is based on facts.”
That sounds like a fair request. The emphasis is on 'sounds like.'
Mr. Putin seems to have forgotten that the people accused of wrongdoing work for the Russian government. Therefore, Mr. Putin could have the KGB interview them within a few days -- and extract more facts about the cheating than outside investigators will ever discover. By demanding 'facts' from outsiders, Mr. Putin is only throwing sand into the gears of justice. He knows the facts well enough.
That sounds like a fair request. The emphasis is on 'sounds like.'
Mr. Putin seems to have forgotten that the people accused of wrongdoing work for the Russian government. Therefore, Mr. Putin could have the KGB interview them within a few days -- and extract more facts about the cheating than outside investigators will ever discover. By demanding 'facts' from outsiders, Mr. Putin is only throwing sand into the gears of justice. He knows the facts well enough.
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Russian athletes won't be banned. IOC has been too corrupt for too long to react to anything except TV revenue and kickbacks. Shame for the clean athletes.
17
This is not true. IOC upheld the ban on all but two Russian track and field people
Not to mention that Bach is friends with Putin and that Germany is glued to Russian gas like an infant to their mother's breast.
No such a thing as clean athletes when it come to the very top level. There are those who pass drug testing and those who don't.
Talk about a petulant Putin.
They have spent far too much time blaming other people and not recognizing the depth of corruption within their own sports.
They have spent far too much time blaming other people and not recognizing the depth of corruption within their own sports.
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"not recognizing"?? Dear Ridgewood, they not only fully recognize it, they have created it, are part of it. And the follow up of Cheating, after being caught, is Lying & Denying. Please recognize reality!
3
Soviet Union 2.0 caught cheating?
Impossible!
Impossible!
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And the athletes from the US are clean as a morning dew.....please...who are you trying to fool?
4
Organized state sponsored cheating? By Obama?
Good old Cold War style propaganda? OK
Two thoughts:
The IOC calling anyone else corrupt is ironic.
Will banning Russia achieve the intended goal of changing their behavior? Or will it further isolate an already embittered and paranoid nation?
The IOC calling anyone else corrupt is ironic.
Will banning Russia achieve the intended goal of changing their behavior? Or will it further isolate an already embittered and paranoid nation?
2
"Will banning Russia achieve the intended goal of changing their behavior?" Actually that is not the goal. The goal is to give clean athletes a fair chance. The athlete's investment of time and effort (and money) to reach the Olympic level is huge in most cases.
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Kekule,
I agree with JF. Who cares what effect it has on Russia? This is about clean athletes and honest competition. The IOC is not the UN; it is not and should not be in the business of managing the fragile egos of insecure peoples.
I agree with JF. Who cares what effect it has on Russia? This is about clean athletes and honest competition. The IOC is not the UN; it is not and should not be in the business of managing the fragile egos of insecure peoples.
10
The goal is to capture as much funds from sponsorship and media rights' as possible. Where have you been? The athletes, as Tom Wolfe would say, are simply "chow". And do you actually think the individual athletes are competing for any nation, rather than their own self interests? Not that anyone would blame them.
2
No matter which way this heads out to, it is not going to be pretty. For the Olympics, the Russians, the Russian Pride, or sports in general.
And Russians got caught. There have to be quite a few other countries that can join this club, with Russia at the head of the table. China, anyone? Or some of the former Soviet Republics.
Russia just happens to be a big and easy target. There are others.
But we don't have East Germany/GDR anymore....
And Russians got caught. There have to be quite a few other countries that can join this club, with Russia at the head of the table. China, anyone? Or some of the former Soviet Republics.
Russia just happens to be a big and easy target. There are others.
But we don't have East Germany/GDR anymore....
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"Russia just happens to be a big and easy target."
Um, no. That Russia is the biggest, most egregious offender in the world is the entire point; there's no "just happens to be" about it.
Um, no. That Russia is the biggest, most egregious offender in the world is the entire point; there's no "just happens to be" about it.
12