is it americas responsibility to accept all people who dont have decent countries, which is most of humanity, and thats a lot of people
is it americas responsibility to fix those countries so people wont flock to th us
esp when america cant fix its own problems ?
is it americas responsibility to fix those countries so people wont flock to th us
esp when america cant fix its own problems ?
40
Let's face facts. People want legal entry into the U.S from Central and South America and by claiming foreign abuse it's possible to get "asylum." They all know this, and sometimes it's true, but now everyone uses it.
The NYT and Nicholas Kristof in entitling this piece as "We'er Helping Deport Kids to Die," is using hyperbole to sell the idea that we are somehow responsible for problems originating in every foreign country.
What ever happened to foreign citizens actually resisting forces within their own country to prevent their "kids' victimization? Is the U.S. always the answer? How will these countries ever change, if the victims just immigrate?
The NYT and Nicholas Kristof in entitling this piece as "We'er Helping Deport Kids to Die," is using hyperbole to sell the idea that we are somehow responsible for problems originating in every foreign country.
What ever happened to foreign citizens actually resisting forces within their own country to prevent their "kids' victimization? Is the U.S. always the answer? How will these countries ever change, if the victims just immigrate?
63
Obama has just been ineffective in putting together an effective legal immigration policy. I know all you liberals will just blame this on the Republicans but every leader since Jesus Christ has had an opposition and they have found ways to work with it for the common good. Barack lacked the experience to deal with Washington or different ideas. This is what happens when liberal groups prohibit someone from the opposition even speaking on college campuses. A whole generation of Americans has grown up thinking alike that to liberal college professors and liberal media. So then you get a president who can't find a way to even make the smallest progress on any of the issues that are hurting America today. Sure the elite is doing well and they are the people who write in to the NYT. The poor people under Obama can't even afford a subscription and it is only getting worse. If Obama had made something happen on immigration, maybe we wouldn't hear stories like this.
17
And yet the Cubans are being allowed to pass into the US??
27
If everyone "fleeing the gangs" is allowed into the United States- won't the gangs simply follow them here? ..Then what?
36
This is absolutely accurate. There is no exaggeration in this story.
19
1. Folks, we already HAVE a coherent policy that addresses refugees. They get shelter and food, and a hearing, to decide what is to be done. The right wing's prob is simple: they object to this. Particularly the due process, which--like other Constitutional protections--they see as applying only to Real Amurricans.
2. I'd mention the astonishing hypocrisy of right-wing Christians here, but it's really not worth commenting on anything that obvious. i almost hope there is a Pearly Gates, so I can watch you boys and girls discussing your treatment of children with Jesus.
3. The sad fact is, a lot of this--certainly not all, but a lot of it--is our chickens flocking home. OUR drug habits enable these gangs. OUR jacking around with governments helped create the instability. OUR funding, training, and supporting the ugly likes of Roberto d'Aubisson helped kill the very people who could have helped stabilize these societies. OUR treating Latin America like a combo playground and prison farm...well, you get the picture.
4. The sadder fact is, we could fix a lot of this. Marshall Plan; Peace Corps. It's take time, cost a bundle, and be imperfect--but we could do it. We're just too cheap, too lazy, too smug, too ignorant.
Pay me now or pay me later, kids. Remember, interest charges accrue.
2. I'd mention the astonishing hypocrisy of right-wing Christians here, but it's really not worth commenting on anything that obvious. i almost hope there is a Pearly Gates, so I can watch you boys and girls discussing your treatment of children with Jesus.
3. The sad fact is, a lot of this--certainly not all, but a lot of it--is our chickens flocking home. OUR drug habits enable these gangs. OUR jacking around with governments helped create the instability. OUR funding, training, and supporting the ugly likes of Roberto d'Aubisson helped kill the very people who could have helped stabilize these societies. OUR treating Latin America like a combo playground and prison farm...well, you get the picture.
4. The sadder fact is, we could fix a lot of this. Marshall Plan; Peace Corps. It's take time, cost a bundle, and be imperfect--but we could do it. We're just too cheap, too lazy, too smug, too ignorant.
Pay me now or pay me later, kids. Remember, interest charges accrue.
96
If we are to be Kristof's "beacon of humanity," should we not only offer asylum and support to all children who have come and are coming here from South America, but also support them by uniting them here with their families and extended families. And should we not extend that umbrella to all children whose families can claim threats ...no matter where they come from?
Especially, should we not open bureaus in those countries where our actions have abetted destabilization...Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Libya....so that all families from those regions can come?
And children refugees created by Allies that enjoy our unquestioned support..should we not open our arms to all the Children of Gaza and the West Bank?
Especially, should we not open bureaus in those countries where our actions have abetted destabilization...Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Libya....so that all families from those regions can come?
And children refugees created by Allies that enjoy our unquestioned support..should we not open our arms to all the Children of Gaza and the West Bank?
16
Political correctness is weakening the Western civilization. I've had enough with shifting opinions and definitions so that they become ambiguous and meaningless. We don't have to do anything but unforced of the existing laws! Is anyone wondering why Trump is so popular? It's not because he's loved or liked or smart or decent or straight, it's not about Republicans or Democrats. It's because he did say what no one else dared to say. Enough is enough.
36
If we're "deporting kids" who have arrived in this country illegally "to die," tell me what are we doing to the kids who are United States citizens that live in states that have refused to expand Medicaid under the ACA? Where is the picture of the adorable family from Maine, Oklahoma, Florida, South Dakota, etc., who were born and raised in this country, but who are unable to get medical treatment because of the bought and paid-for pigheadedness of those states' politicians?
Are the places these children, and adults, running from countries or not? Do they have at least the intentions or frameworks to improve living conditions for their own people, or are they just another layer of protection for the criminal cartels that are the purported cause for all the illegal immigration for Mexico, and Central and South America?
Please place the responsibility for this situation on the shoulders it belongs.
Are the places these children, and adults, running from countries or not? Do they have at least the intentions or frameworks to improve living conditions for their own people, or are they just another layer of protection for the criminal cartels that are the purported cause for all the illegal immigration for Mexico, and Central and South America?
Please place the responsibility for this situation on the shoulders it belongs.
38
Not the job of the US
28
I hope every reader who is making sanctimonious statements about helping those in need here at home are, in fact, doing their part to help those in need here at home.
21
The experiences of these families is terribly tragic but as a nation, we must be realistic. There are countless individuals around the world that live horrific lives and all cannot be rescued. We have so many in our country who are homeless, hungry and they have no way to escape their downward spiral. Look no further than our impoverished neighborhoods or the Native American reservations in America. We first must be responsible for our own citizens who are hurting.
33
Are you suggesting we take in everyone with problems from all over the world? We already have a population of 40 million Americans that seem unable to survive without help, to coexist without murdering each other. Why don't you take in a houseful Nick?
50
Mr. Kristof, please tell me how i can help this family and others like them. I was also moved by your recent story about Sultana, is there something i can do. CS
8
To those who believe we should do nothing, and even "close our borders" ---
American dollars FUNDS those gangs through our purchases of their illegal drugs. In effect, some Americans are directly complicit in the crimes.
To me that suggests that we have a responsibility to do something to improve the situation.
Can we agree on that point? If so, then the discussion we should be having is about WHAT we should be doing.
As others have pointed out, we are involved messily in other ways too, through the deportation of hardened gang members from our prisons to their countries, from our past involvement in support of various political groups, etc.
Trying to untangle all that is too much now. But I think we have to admit that we are PARTLY responsible for some of this mess and consequently have a moral obligation to help with the solution, whatever it be.
American dollars FUNDS those gangs through our purchases of their illegal drugs. In effect, some Americans are directly complicit in the crimes.
To me that suggests that we have a responsibility to do something to improve the situation.
Can we agree on that point? If so, then the discussion we should be having is about WHAT we should be doing.
As others have pointed out, we are involved messily in other ways too, through the deportation of hardened gang members from our prisons to their countries, from our past involvement in support of various political groups, etc.
Trying to untangle all that is too much now. But I think we have to admit that we are PARTLY responsible for some of this mess and consequently have a moral obligation to help with the solution, whatever it be.
16
Lots of places in South America they could go. No reason we need to save everyone.
30
The first question is if there is so much crime and poverty in these countries, then why are parents having so many kids? If the parents can't afford kids don't dump them into the US.
Showing photos of kids sways me almost as much as a photo gallery I saw recently showing Hitler, Stalin, and Bin Laden as kids. Even Pablo Escobar was a kid and I don't want these little monsters training here.
I am outright calling many of these sad stories lies and I don't want to support them in the US through taxes.
Showing photos of kids sways me almost as much as a photo gallery I saw recently showing Hitler, Stalin, and Bin Laden as kids. Even Pablo Escobar was a kid and I don't want these little monsters training here.
I am outright calling many of these sad stories lies and I don't want to support them in the US through taxes.
22
Just because immigration is a solution to these heart breaking problems does not mean it is the correct solution. It does not address the fundamental problems in Central America.
These are not huge countries, and raising their standard of living through better engagement by the US would be much more palatable to the majority of the US population than encouraging a larger population of immigrants to come to the US. Iraq, Afghanistan, and the war on terror have caused us to neglect our neighborhood. We need to focus on prosperity and stability in the Americas. Only through such actions will we see a real end to these painful stories.
These are not huge countries, and raising their standard of living through better engagement by the US would be much more palatable to the majority of the US population than encouraging a larger population of immigrants to come to the US. Iraq, Afghanistan, and the war on terror have caused us to neglect our neighborhood. We need to focus on prosperity and stability in the Americas. Only through such actions will we see a real end to these painful stories.
13
If people were more informed about the history of US (and CIA, in particular) involvement in creating the instability of these Latin American countries - read Kinzer's book on the Dulles Brothers - many more US citizens would realize how inhumane their no-immigration convictions would be. It's not about how we can't accommodate them economically - it's about leaving them to be killed by the killing gangs that run these countries. It is, as Kristoff intimates, a zero-sum game, and yes, it was the US and its capitalist interests that destroyed the fabric of these cultures.
19
We have American kids to care for FIRST
Do not need hordes of uneducated and unvaccinated kids being imported from any country! Nick's bleeding heart would do well to check out poverty in the U.S.
Do not need hordes of uneducated and unvaccinated kids being imported from any country! Nick's bleeding heart would do well to check out poverty in the U.S.
24
Lots of contradictory thoughts.
You seem to make a case for the US simply dissolving its borders because somebody somewhere wants in and is in danger.
How about Mexico and other SA countries also admitting refugees? The US - farther from the border - is guilty while every other South American country (many with closer borders) do not accept refugees and yet they are not guilty of anything.
What about those in abject poverty that are already here (legally)?!
The US does not have enough $ to help everybody who wants in. Before you criticize - how do you propose to manage that?
Invade Honduras?
Send "advisors"?
There will be an unlimited number of refugees fleeing to the US instead of solving their problems if things do not change there and yet you offer only an unlimited open door policy.
You seem to make a case for the US simply dissolving its borders because somebody somewhere wants in and is in danger.
How about Mexico and other SA countries also admitting refugees? The US - farther from the border - is guilty while every other South American country (many with closer borders) do not accept refugees and yet they are not guilty of anything.
What about those in abject poverty that are already here (legally)?!
The US does not have enough $ to help everybody who wants in. Before you criticize - how do you propose to manage that?
Invade Honduras?
Send "advisors"?
There will be an unlimited number of refugees fleeing to the US instead of solving their problems if things do not change there and yet you offer only an unlimited open door policy.
16
Take them all in at YOUR house. Otherwise, keep out of it.
17
I think that if there is a "thumbs up" in comments, there should be a "thumbs down". Like DD in Cincinnati, I find many of the comments to this article to be appalling. Where is this country going?
8
One commenter hit the nail on the head.Let those who scream for open borders start taking in some of these famiiies. We have down and out of our own. Observed that NK, his eye always on the bottom line, casually mentions that a video is in production on Elena and her family. Being an altruist and getting paid for it is a good deal for Kristof.Are there not pockets of poverty in this country worthy of his attention?I am surprised that he thinks his readers would be taken in by such a mawkish,soapy article which fails to focus on the problems here at home that should be dealt with foremost.
32
Make a comfy home for displaced refugees in those empty, glass towers located at Billionaires Row on Columbus Circle.
13
Another sob story on illegal aliens from the NYT, These kids are asylum shoppers. The first safe country they reached was Mexico - that is the country they should ask for asylum. But no - they wanted to come to the US as they know the benefits will be better there. That is known throughout all the Northern Triangle. This is the same thing as Asylum seekers arriving in Greece know that Germany and Sweden have the best benefits so they want to go to those country. This is the same thing - the US is the Germany and Sweden with good benefits thus the invasion from Northern Triangle.
I hope we continue to deport them. Maybe they will learn that they should be asking for asylum in Mexico.
Also it would be good if we built a refugee center near the Northern Triangle borders with Mexico so that those who claim they are fleeing for their life can go to these refugee camps and stay there until they can return to their home.
But I believe we should deport all who come here illegally back to their home country no matter their age. Otherwise we will be hanging out a sign saying all illegal aliens welcome. It is important that these people understand that cannot stay in the US and will be sent back to their home country.
I hope we continue to deport them. Maybe they will learn that they should be asking for asylum in Mexico.
Also it would be good if we built a refugee center near the Northern Triangle borders with Mexico so that those who claim they are fleeing for their life can go to these refugee camps and stay there until they can return to their home.
But I believe we should deport all who come here illegally back to their home country no matter their age. Otherwise we will be hanging out a sign saying all illegal aliens welcome. It is important that these people understand that cannot stay in the US and will be sent back to their home country.
34
How about we take care of our children? Saint Nick goes all over the world and dumps guilt on Americans in every column he writes. From young prostitutes in Thailand to kids in El Salvador. I sympathize but we've got huge problems here with our own children.
I want to see our children educated, I want to see them able to walk to school without worrying about being shot, I want to see our kids be able to attend college without mortgaging their future, I want to see teachers paid, I want them to have access to good health care, healthy diets, etc. etc.
America cannot solve the world's problems and, when we try, things inevitably get worse for the people we are supposed to be helping. Name our last success, WWII?
Let's put our kids first for a change. Just this once.
I want to see our children educated, I want to see them able to walk to school without worrying about being shot, I want to see our kids be able to attend college without mortgaging their future, I want to see teachers paid, I want them to have access to good health care, healthy diets, etc. etc.
America cannot solve the world's problems and, when we try, things inevitably get worse for the people we are supposed to be helping. Name our last success, WWII?
Let's put our kids first for a change. Just this once.
28
When will you address Hillary Clinton's contribution:
“I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in" to the Washington Post in 2016
“We have to send a clear message, just because your child gets across the border, that doesn’t mean the child gets to stay,” HRC to the Huffington Post in 2016
“I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in" to the Washington Post in 2016
“We have to send a clear message, just because your child gets across the border, that doesn’t mean the child gets to stay,” HRC to the Huffington Post in 2016
16
Mr. Kristof has written one of those columns I hate, as it points out an incredible evil that could be fixed. To make it worse, some of the victims are children. His anger at the Obama administration, while justified to a point, does not take into account that many evil things are done in the name of politics.
I have a different solution to the problem, but mine has been politically incorrect for quite some time. It's called imperialism. It historically has meant that a powerful country takes economic advantage of a weaker country at the point of a gun that usually has a bayonet on the end of it. Since imperialism ended, the world has become a much more dangerous place.
I am not saying imperialism is a "good" thing. I am not saying it is moral. As communication technology has improved with the internet, Instagram, twitter, facebook, and its various other permutations, perhaps imperialism is no longer possible.
But seriously, Mr. Kristof - would you be willing to have this horrible situation ended by American troops going in, forcibly disarming the gangs and killing every single person who might resist? I personally would have no problem with it. How about you?
I have a different solution to the problem, but mine has been politically incorrect for quite some time. It's called imperialism. It historically has meant that a powerful country takes economic advantage of a weaker country at the point of a gun that usually has a bayonet on the end of it. Since imperialism ended, the world has become a much more dangerous place.
I am not saying imperialism is a "good" thing. I am not saying it is moral. As communication technology has improved with the internet, Instagram, twitter, facebook, and its various other permutations, perhaps imperialism is no longer possible.
But seriously, Mr. Kristof - would you be willing to have this horrible situation ended by American troops going in, forcibly disarming the gangs and killing every single person who might resist? I personally would have no problem with it. How about you?
13
In Kristof's world, the only moral agents are Americans; everyone else gets a free pass. Would he ever ask the relatives and countrymen of these children to change their societies, to root out corruption, to protect the defenseless? Apparently not, based on my reading of his columns. The paradox here is that Kristof imagines himself to be a defender of the people of Central America. In truth, he doesn't believe that they are capable of anything like moral agency. Asking America to be the sole moral agent in their world presumes that we alone are capable of it. We are hardly committed to helping those who are already here. Yet Kristof, in his unending moralistic imperialism, would presume to enlarge the population of the impoverished in America. How many of them will be fed and housed in Scarsdale? How many around the Metropolitan Museum? Where will they live and how, Mr. Kristof? I know, you've done your job. You've told others what to do. Such is life for a newspaper pundit.
24
I don't really believe all the claims of South and Central Americans who say they will die if they return home. It's just a lie so they can stay in the U.S. and live off the generosity of our system. Don't get me wrong if I had grown up in Honduras and had little opportunity and few options I might also lie to get into a better country. We are a country of laws and the law must rule. Send them home and send the bill to Honduras and El Salvador.
19
One of my employees, a hard-working Guatemalan woman, is furious. Her sister came and before getting a job or learning English, she got pregnant. The sister told her that if there's trouble with Immigration, she can alwaya allege that a gang is after her .... problem solved.
24
As repeated comments note, you identify a problem; you don't identify a solution.
Since we can't afford to admit all the people -- even children -- who merit our sympathy, how about we start by ending the "war on drugs" which probably underwrites much of the problematic gang activity?
Since we can't afford to admit all the people -- even children -- who merit our sympathy, how about we start by ending the "war on drugs" which probably underwrites much of the problematic gang activity?
8
And people want to know how a man like Trump becomes a major party candidate? Many Americans are most of all afraid for themselves and their children. Constant liberal exhortations to take in and provide for all the world's refugees while not taking care of our own continues to drive people to the political right, where at least the rhetoric is on their side.
21
Nick, you have finally win me over! I agree with you, let's open the border and let the masses in, but I don't see the point of removing them from the ghettos of Mexico and South America, and putting them in the ghettos of the United States, let's do this right, let's give them access to the best schools, the best housing, let's put them in the neighborhoods of the 1% you know a neighborhood, where a fine NY Times Columnist, such as yourself lives.
23
Every child's hurt, abuse and shame is our hurt, abuse and shame. When we so readily dismiss a child as not worthy of protection, love, compassion and kindness we hurt our selves.
5
Yes, always put children up for the folks to really feel sorry for them all. I think that line is wearing thin.
15
Thank you Mr. Kristof, you are our conscience.
Just like you have pointed many times before, countries with less resources have responded sheltering more people than us without apparent problems.
But even better would be some kind of program to help those Countries to fight corruption and to improve their police, the two major plagues that allow chronic violence over there. Simple things, like supporting Human Rights Watch or denouncing specific persons sometimes can get changes.
But to get that first we need to elect Progressive representatives, and then to press them to look into possible solutions.
In the meantime I'll write to President Obama again, asking him to stop supporting more deportations.
Just like you have pointed many times before, countries with less resources have responded sheltering more people than us without apparent problems.
But even better would be some kind of program to help those Countries to fight corruption and to improve their police, the two major plagues that allow chronic violence over there. Simple things, like supporting Human Rights Watch or denouncing specific persons sometimes can get changes.
But to get that first we need to elect Progressive representatives, and then to press them to look into possible solutions.
In the meantime I'll write to President Obama again, asking him to stop supporting more deportations.
4
Grant asylum to these families.
Suck it up, Republicans. If you are so deep into your personal comfort zone that you've lost all sense of humanity, you have less to love for than these refugees.
Build that wall? It will look fine from your side. On the other side it will be streaked with blood from the fingernails of people who just want to stay alive.
Suck it up, Republicans. If you are so deep into your personal comfort zone that you've lost all sense of humanity, you have less to love for than these refugees.
Build that wall? It will look fine from your side. On the other side it will be streaked with blood from the fingernails of people who just want to stay alive.
6
It looks like we will have to solve our drug addiction problems in the US before we can solve our illegal immigration problem.
6
Compassion for others.....where are all the US protesters demanding the governments and wealthy people of those countries to take care of their own?
How did it become the American citizens responsibility? If Obama's doctrine is reducing American influence I suppose you just want to continue to give our tax dollars to these people. American taxpayers have contributed enough to the world. Either we have it one way or they other but not both. Let these countries start taking care of their own people. Move the United Nations to anyone of these poor countries and see how many UN appointees and employees decide all of a sudden they want to find another job and stay right in the US.
How did it become the American citizens responsibility? If Obama's doctrine is reducing American influence I suppose you just want to continue to give our tax dollars to these people. American taxpayers have contributed enough to the world. Either we have it one way or they other but not both. Let these countries start taking care of their own people. Move the United Nations to anyone of these poor countries and see how many UN appointees and employees decide all of a sudden they want to find another job and stay right in the US.
13
Immigration is complicated. But that dosen't mean the U.S. shouldn't allow for it to possibly help save hundreds of young families in the region's that could benefit from it. We're taking in so few Syrians, there's extra room, right?
3
An exceptional country.
1
This so obviously contrived that as commentary, it's ridiculous, and as fact, it's a lie. We did nothing but build a stable Country that now is being Balkanized for no good reason. We don't need more problems imported as we have seen recently. The Govt. can't tell us who is here, who they are and where they are actually located. Our Immigration law is not an informal agreement but this writer and the Times seem to insist on a version of it. And now this supposed act of cruelty against children. Has the Times no shame at all?
19
Barack Hussein Obama is the reigning master of mass deportation of people who do not look like nor hail from the distant alien Slavic foreign homelands of Ivana and Melania Trump. A wall paid for by Mexico would be much more humane.
Nick,
You are right. This is horrible and hypocritical. Other than writing a letter to the President, what do you suggest that we do?
You are right. This is horrible and hypocritical. Other than writing a letter to the President, what do you suggest that we do?
2
The U.S. frequently holds other countries to a higher standard than it requires of itself. We are rather insufferable that way.
3
I feel like Republicans in Congress truly forced Obama's hand in this. Choosing his battles, this one he caved in on so as to clear the way to accomplish other goals. Sad that it has to be this way. Ironic that the GOP "chooses life" but can't see their hypocrisy in this and other issues closer to home. "Choosing life" means illegal abortions that kill women, babies born with horrific deformities causing them to die slow deaths while their parents watch, or children born unwanted, uncared for, abused and killed after a brief but horrible experience of "life." And, in the same way, conservatives who "choose life" can't let go of the visceral gratification they find in state-sanctioned murder - the death penalty. Even when this results too many times in innocent persons losing their lives to a prejudicial, ineffective, and brutal system of justice. Is this a great country or what!
5
Sorry, Mr. Kristof, 40,000,000-50,000,000 immigrants--the current number in the US--is enough. Find another way to solve the problem.
19
The US financed and supported a civil war in El Salvador in the 80's that led to a many salvadoreans run to the US, where a disenfranchised youth became a gang problem that the US addressed by deporting them back where they now run a lawless and failed state
This is the root cause, US intervention in Central America and the US and it's people should take responsibility for it
This is the root cause, US intervention in Central America and the US and it's people should take responsibility for it
8
As he ran for re-election in September, 2014 at the height of the rightwing hype-campaign surrounding and inflaming the issue, Congressman Robert Pittenger (R-NC9) told a town hall:
"It’s the most egregious, awful crime and a pity, what has happened to these young children, but do you want to open up America’s doors to the entire world? We can’t handle the healthcare and education today for our own population! We have to be sensible about what we our system can manage. So you put them on planes and you send them back.”
This from a man who wears his "christianity" on his sleeve for the entire world to see. A man who is a millionaire 50-times over. A man who is probably going to be re-elected for another two years.
As long as we have small men like Pittenger calling the shots then these kids will continue to die. But, please, don't blame him; he's just being "pragmatic."
"It’s the most egregious, awful crime and a pity, what has happened to these young children, but do you want to open up America’s doors to the entire world? We can’t handle the healthcare and education today for our own population! We have to be sensible about what we our system can manage. So you put them on planes and you send them back.”
This from a man who wears his "christianity" on his sleeve for the entire world to see. A man who is a millionaire 50-times over. A man who is probably going to be re-elected for another two years.
As long as we have small men like Pittenger calling the shots then these kids will continue to die. But, please, don't blame him; he's just being "pragmatic."
7
The most cost-effective and humanitarian thing we can do for the illegal aliens is to establish repatriation centers in their own countries to which we can immediately transport them. We can house them THERE, in their own countries and give them hearings THERE, not here.
Oh, and THEIR country can pay for it.
Oh, and THEIR country can pay for it.
14
How does the author think these children got to our southern border? Did they just make a 1000 mile journey solo with the clothes on their backs? Of course not, they were smuggled, most likely by criminal drug smuggling gangs like they ones they claim to be fleeing. Allowing them to stay only will encourage more of the same. And that isn't making anyone any safer. And that isn't even discussing the big picture issue that there are tens of millions if not hundreds of millions are poor people in this world who would rather live in the US. But we can't take even a small fraction of that total and survive as a nation.
16
Ah, the horror of a fictional gang rape and murder.
Ten years ago and twenty years ago and even back in 1970 liberals were decrying America immigration and deportation policies. The hand wringing and tales of woe have swung widely and wildly between evil fascist government soldiers on a killing spree, to communist sociopaths on a killing spree, to drug warlords on a killing spree and now narcolobos (feral teen drug gangs) on a killing spree.
Yet during all my travels with the U.S. Military, security escort for Doctor without borders and last year as a volunteer school teacher I never saw or heard from anyone still living there suffering the effects of the death squads. Pleanty of poverty and tons of drugs being moved north but no mass executions, gang rapes or dead bodies laying by the side of the road.
I have encountered hundreds of women and girls forced into sex worker to help pay for their transportation north to America, the land of milk and honey. The place you go to get rich.
So? What to do to end the problem? Easy. End the war on drugs. Deport every illegal and stop lying to ourselves.
People are going to flee poverty especially if there is no risk. People are going to lie about evil men, murder, rape, and everything else in order to gain sympathy for staying. People are going to commit crimes and violent crimes at that in order to get rich off of the illegal drug trade.
End the incentives and you end the flow of drugs and illegals to America.
Ten years ago and twenty years ago and even back in 1970 liberals were decrying America immigration and deportation policies. The hand wringing and tales of woe have swung widely and wildly between evil fascist government soldiers on a killing spree, to communist sociopaths on a killing spree, to drug warlords on a killing spree and now narcolobos (feral teen drug gangs) on a killing spree.
Yet during all my travels with the U.S. Military, security escort for Doctor without borders and last year as a volunteer school teacher I never saw or heard from anyone still living there suffering the effects of the death squads. Pleanty of poverty and tons of drugs being moved north but no mass executions, gang rapes or dead bodies laying by the side of the road.
I have encountered hundreds of women and girls forced into sex worker to help pay for their transportation north to America, the land of milk and honey. The place you go to get rich.
So? What to do to end the problem? Easy. End the war on drugs. Deport every illegal and stop lying to ourselves.
People are going to flee poverty especially if there is no risk. People are going to lie about evil men, murder, rape, and everything else in order to gain sympathy for staying. People are going to commit crimes and violent crimes at that in order to get rich off of the illegal drug trade.
End the incentives and you end the flow of drugs and illegals to America.
22
Nicholas, You have a preternatural gift for finding and artistically relaying the heart wrenching stories that humanize tragedies around world. " The horror, the horror" of today's column is especially disturbing.
5
Mr. Kristof's humanity and ability to bear witness to the consequences for children of a current specific policy that can be changed is admirable. Changing a request to deport refugees from Central America trying to get to the U.S. Is a worthy decision now. This will not solve the immigration problem worldwide, economic fragility that underpins the barely functioning states, racism, fear, terrorism, past wrongs, robber barons and oppressive capitalism, ect. Just expecting the poor and life-threatened to just suck it up isn't a plan worthy of the thoughtful and privileged. I think we need better thinking and incentives both globally and locally for both the environment and people. For instance, instead of invading a country, its government or a regional consortium could request limited military support to kill or imprison gangs. This would be paid for like a NATO for America. When an area was cleared, refugees could return to their homes. Maybe minimum salaries and tax policies throughout the Americas to provide greater stability and fewer opportunities for corruption. I just think that more government, nuance, and intelligence can overcome the immediate problem and begin to address larger, dangerous,festering issues of poverty, violence, and lack of opportunity that are beyond individual agency.
4
waaahhhh
the world is not fair :(
and it should be :)
and it is all whitey's fault ;)
we should allow all 7 billion poor people into the usa,
and then we can feel morally good :)
or at least superior ::)
jeb!
the world is not fair :(
and it should be :)
and it is all whitey's fault ;)
we should allow all 7 billion poor people into the usa,
and then we can feel morally good :)
or at least superior ::)
jeb!
14
In a world where the human population has grown far beyond the plant's capacity to sustain them, human life becomes very cheap. We can't save every kid in the world. Maybe we should start by getting American kids out of Detroit. I don't think there are many more dangerous places than the inner city projects for children.
17
Let's invite all seven billion people into the USA.
13
Doesn't the US government support the Honduran leader who took power in a coup? Mexico has countless criminal hell holes where insane abuses take place against innocents while its law enforcement sees nothing, does nothing. We support the crooked governments who allow the criminals to act with impunity in many countries in Latin America, so our government should demand those kleptocracies protect their people, or deny their leaders aid and visas to the US.
6
We probably cannot do anything to help these people untill we clean up some of the misery in our own country. Maybe when we began to see through the Trump lies we can start.
Meanwhile the Supreme Court has made the problem worse.
Meanwhile the Supreme Court has made the problem worse.
4
I'm really tired of upper class Americans like Kristof defining compassion as forcing people like me to let millions of unskilled poor people into our community. It is not his properly taxes that will go up to support them and it is not his kids who will see cuts in their district. The problems of Latin America are Latin America's to solve not ours.
28
Any community willing to repatriate our own terrorized brethren residing in failed entities such as Detroit, Camden, Irvington, N.J. ?
14
Is the author of this op-ed aware that there is already a process to deal with exactly this situation? Illegal immigrants can petition the government for asylum on several grounds, including the risks faced by the young woman portrayed here. Based on her story, in fact, she'd be an excellent candidate.
If the criticism is that the asylum process is too slow or isn't effective enough, that's because it's often rife with fraud. So we ask the asylum seekers to support their stories with evidence the best they can, which can take time.
If the criticism is that the asylum process is too slow or isn't effective enough, that's because it's often rife with fraud. So we ask the asylum seekers to support their stories with evidence the best they can, which can take time.
12
Does anyone remember Hillary's comment during one of the spring debates about how it was necessary to "send a message" to the parents of children fleeing these dangers. The administration had to let the parents know, by returning the children, that it wasn't safe to send them here.
Does anyone remember Bernie's reaction? He was appalled. He said these children should be welcomed with open arms.
I guess that was why some of you voted for Hillary: to teach those parents a lesson.
It reminds me of Trump.
Does anyone remember Bernie's reaction? He was appalled. He said these children should be welcomed with open arms.
I guess that was why some of you voted for Hillary: to teach those parents a lesson.
It reminds me of Trump.
2
Stooooooooop.
Cry me a river here NK, this is not resonating. You feel to bad.y, you adopt of few.
Cry me a river here NK, this is not resonating. You feel to bad.y, you adopt of few.
18
All migrants from around the world want to barge in, either Europe or the United States, why?
One –They know in advance that we are softhearted, generous, naïve and that we will take care of them regardless of who they are. They know how to press the emotional buttons. They are told in advance what to say when apprehended by authorities.
Two – Criminals and smugglers are making billions of dollars by misinforming uneducated, unskilled opportunistic freeloaders who have very little to offer this country.
Three – they know every loophole in our laws and will go to great lengths to exploit them.
Four – They are breaking our laws even before they show up. They will have no problem breaking them afterwords.
Five – They bypass all the costs and immunizations required by legal immigration.
Six – They have no loyalty to our Constitution which they know very little about and never swore to uphold. They give themselves priority before anyone who applies legally.
Seven – They come here to help themselves, not to give, to take advantage of our social institutions and burden the taxpayers.
Eight – Some of them bring believes and traditions that are fundamentally against the basic tenents of our Constitution.
Nine –They are adversely impacting citizens some of whom are living in abject poverty.
Mr. Christoph, you should take a trip across the US and check how some Americans are living in your backyard !
One –They know in advance that we are softhearted, generous, naïve and that we will take care of them regardless of who they are. They know how to press the emotional buttons. They are told in advance what to say when apprehended by authorities.
Two – Criminals and smugglers are making billions of dollars by misinforming uneducated, unskilled opportunistic freeloaders who have very little to offer this country.
Three – they know every loophole in our laws and will go to great lengths to exploit them.
Four – They are breaking our laws even before they show up. They will have no problem breaking them afterwords.
Five – They bypass all the costs and immunizations required by legal immigration.
Six – They have no loyalty to our Constitution which they know very little about and never swore to uphold. They give themselves priority before anyone who applies legally.
Seven – They come here to help themselves, not to give, to take advantage of our social institutions and burden the taxpayers.
Eight – Some of them bring believes and traditions that are fundamentally against the basic tenents of our Constitution.
Nine –They are adversely impacting citizens some of whom are living in abject poverty.
Mr. Christoph, you should take a trip across the US and check how some Americans are living in your backyard !
28
If kids and families are being murdered in South America it seems that the police in South America should do something about it. There are people being murdered by gangs and crazy religious groups all over the world. We cannot be a safe haven for their problems which must be solved by their own governments. If we allow ourselves to be sucked in by "refugees" many of which are not woman and children but most look like soldiers to me, we will become a third world country. When that happens, and it will if we keep on electing Presidents like Obama who will not enforce our laws or if we elect Hillary Clinton who will follow in his footsteps we have no one to blame but ourselves. Where do we go to escape persecution when it happens here?
21
How many countries in the world have incompetent, corrupt governments and violent societies?
Should we import to the US all of the children in the world living under those governments?
Should we import to the US all of the children in the world living under those governments?
32
I suppose Mr. Kristof would rather fill a boat with 100 kids that was designed for much less, thus putting all at jeopardy of drowning rather than keeping some on shore to insure a safe passage for those already on the boat.....
8
There is no group as hypocritical as the Christian right. Who took the Christ out of Christian? Put it back.
"I feel sympathy for these kids, BUT..."
People asking for a solution? In the long term, a solution is to help lift up the economies of the nations south of us. In the short term, it is to be loving and kind to children.
"I feel sympathy for these kids, BUT..."
People asking for a solution? In the long term, a solution is to help lift up the economies of the nations south of us. In the short term, it is to be loving and kind to children.
13
To make your point against Obama's immigration actions, you've mentioned a list of heart-breaking individual cases. What I don't see in your piece is what his immigration actions could be, or should have been.
3
Americans like to think of our country as free, caring and moral. Far from the truth. We are selfish and racist. Just look at how we treat the poor in the US, much less the poor of countries we have long exploited in Central America. Obama has given into the worst of US society while thinking himself a humanist. Time to stop with all the hypocrisy.
14
What a wonderful job. Espouse the most gullible, impractical, bankrupting, community-destroying policies safe in the knowledge that people who actually have to bear the consequences will push back against you.
You get to glow in soothing light of virtue signaling while shaking your head sadly at the adults who prevent you from destroying the first world.
You get to glow in soothing light of virtue signaling while shaking your head sadly at the adults who prevent you from destroying the first world.
12
What about the white American kids that lose relatives to Mexican illegals. When will the NY Times bleed for them?
19
You may not be saying to open the door widely, but Obama has and is and yes it is a good thing Congress can restrain him, he needs it.
12
Given the plight of children around the world, it's amazing the US does so little to support birth control-- in this country and abroad.
The weirdest teachings of the Catholic church seem to have more power than-- well, reason and compassion, for starters.
The weirdest teachings of the Catholic church seem to have more power than-- well, reason and compassion, for starters.
21
Nicholas, we've always followed a policy of treating human beings on the basis of their color of the skin or the culture or language they spoke or as per their religion.
So this horrific story about the South American REFUGEES who're fleeing their countries and trying to seek asylum in our country and how we're treating them, so inhumanely, lays bare our country's shameful policies , which was for true White and of Judeo-Christian beliefs .
Anyone who's not White and do not follow one out of two of our major religions, doesn't deserve our attention or compassion even though we've elected a Black President.
Although majority of these Latin asylum seekers coming are Catholics and the Catholic Churches are really putting up a big fight for them because once admitted these millions of immigrants will be a major boon to all the Catholic Churches. But those pleas are going into our Govt.'s deaf years only because these Christians are not Caucasian Christians coming from European countries or of Jewish faith.
It must be noted that these inhuman pact that we signed with the Mexican Government to apprehend and deport these totally helpless and fearful citizens of our world's totally dangerous and brutalized countries who're supporting our country's millions of Drug addicts, was somewhat similar pact that we signed with the European countries to stop the flow flow of Jewish refugees from Europe.
And it's one of our countries' major shames that all of us have to live with forever.
So this horrific story about the South American REFUGEES who're fleeing their countries and trying to seek asylum in our country and how we're treating them, so inhumanely, lays bare our country's shameful policies , which was for true White and of Judeo-Christian beliefs .
Anyone who's not White and do not follow one out of two of our major religions, doesn't deserve our attention or compassion even though we've elected a Black President.
Although majority of these Latin asylum seekers coming are Catholics and the Catholic Churches are really putting up a big fight for them because once admitted these millions of immigrants will be a major boon to all the Catholic Churches. But those pleas are going into our Govt.'s deaf years only because these Christians are not Caucasian Christians coming from European countries or of Jewish faith.
It must be noted that these inhuman pact that we signed with the Mexican Government to apprehend and deport these totally helpless and fearful citizens of our world's totally dangerous and brutalized countries who're supporting our country's millions of Drug addicts, was somewhat similar pact that we signed with the European countries to stop the flow flow of Jewish refugees from Europe.
And it's one of our countries' major shames that all of us have to live with forever.
3
Mr. Kristof, I wonder what President Obama can do given how constrained--both by Congress and the courts--his powers concerning immigration are. It does seem to be a largely humanitarian crisis south of the border where many are fleeing for their lives from gang terrorism. And for this mostly sympathetic audience what would you have us do? My view, with the daily carnage due to violence by gun or terrorist massacre, is that words alone are no longer enough. I'm willing to act, but am not sure what action to take.
1
Thank you Nicholas. The points are one: American foreign policy is about money, corporations, and trade not democracy, freedom, justice, and human rights. Two: Americans care more about fetus rights than children and their mothers. Three: the epidemic of domestic violence, rape, human trafficking, and abusein our own country are not even news. Four: our national obsession with wealth and celebrity blinds us to suffering globally. Five: we don't care about our fellow citizen Veterans, Native Americans, African Americans, and Latin Americans. Mr. Kristof is one of the mainstream media people trying to bring human rights abuses to our national attention. When we start caring as a nation, when we vote people who care into government, when democracy, human rights, and our planet become our agenda solutions will be found.
9
The police in Central America allow armed gangs to drive people off their land, then openly occupy that land themselves? And what are the gangs doing there, growing strawberries?
Certainly crime in Central America is an enormous problem. But these stories don't pass the smell test.
Certainly crime in Central America is an enormous problem. But these stories don't pass the smell test.
15
If there were ever a time when we could like at the height of our economic power which is definitely 10-15 years in our rear view mirror, we can no longer afford to take in hordes of people because countries like the Honduras refuse to take care of their people. The math is simple. We have millions in this country that are homeless and live every day with food insecurity. Here is an honest liberal test: true or not that we should take care of every American citizen with a housing or food issue before we help one kid from Honduras because Honduras refuses to do their job and keep the kid safe? On the contrary one kid gone from Honduras to America to send money home one day is one big win for a corrupt Honduran government. Honduras will NEVER change unless we make them by sending EVERY illegal immigrant from Honduras home.
16
The poorly thought out policies that have produced hunger, despair, broken families, domestic violence and under-education continue to take their toll in a country called the USA. This writer should know that since those conditions are the result of the often articulated remedies and bromides peddled by the so-called progressives he champions. Time would be better spent repairing the calamities here rather than wasting data plan minutes lamenting the fate of unfortunates elsewhere. After you've cleaned the stables your philosophies have fouled, then you may inflict your combustible experiments on unsuspecting others.
6
Central American countries cannot handle their gang problems, thus why is the US, the policeman of the world, sitting here and allowing the gangs to exist. The US has the military to deal with this problem, as long as those Central American countries in question allow the US to help them. The US fights the Taliban a world away, yet allows gangs to exist in its own backyard.
5
"Suffer the little ones to come unto me and forbid them not.." enough said
5
I feel sorry for these kids but it is not America's role to take them in.
19
This is an awful story, but it is very difficult for immigration officials to decide whether it's true. I'm sure there are thousands of girls who have been forced into becoming a gang member's "girlfriend" but there are many more, who claim to have suffered this ordeal so that they can stay in the US. After Germany opened her borders, the country is now awash with tens of thousands of young Afghan men, who claim that their life is in danger because they were interpreters for NATO forces, which can't be true for simple numerical reasons.
When it comes to refugees, rich Western countries should open their doors to persecuted minorities like the Yazidis, who were subjected to genocide and mass rapes by ISIS and refugees of brutal civil wars like the one in Syria. And, of course, the US should end its idiotic war on drugs, which has destabilized Mexico and Central America and created the problem of gang-rule in the first place. Naturally, it will take many years for a better US drug policy to take effect, but the sooner the US shifts its strategy, the earlier we will see results.
When it comes to refugees, rich Western countries should open their doors to persecuted minorities like the Yazidis, who were subjected to genocide and mass rapes by ISIS and refugees of brutal civil wars like the one in Syria. And, of course, the US should end its idiotic war on drugs, which has destabilized Mexico and Central America and created the problem of gang-rule in the first place. Naturally, it will take many years for a better US drug policy to take effect, but the sooner the US shifts its strategy, the earlier we will see results.
8
It really bother me when it is assumed that ll the immigrant that come seeking asylum are here for economic reasons. There are many who are here because they just want to stay alive..when are we going to understand that?
5
"I’m mostly a fan of the Obama administration, but this is just plain immoral."
I'm mostly a fan of Mr. Kristof's opinions, but this is just lazy.
"and Obama in any case is constrained by Congress"....isn't that the real story of America's complicity in the returning of these refugees? The real story is the total abrogation of duty that is the hallmark of this, and the last, republican congressional sessions.
Using immigration as a battering ram against Obama the republicans have done no good, and serious harm to people in crisis from all over the world.
Let US remember that it was the machinations of Reagan and Bush I that has caused a great deal of the trouble in Central and South America. It was the war crime of bush ii that caused the unrest in the Middle East, which led to the crisis in Syria. (Syria also got hit by some global warming droughts which the republican congress has also done absolutely nothing to mitigate.)
The false equivalence that is so popular in the news business these days is the reason we are looking at the candidacy of T rump and the virtual shutdown of our government.
I keep reminding these fine writers that in a fascist state reporters are generally out of work and in prison.
I'm mostly a fan of Mr. Kristof's opinions, but this is just lazy.
"and Obama in any case is constrained by Congress"....isn't that the real story of America's complicity in the returning of these refugees? The real story is the total abrogation of duty that is the hallmark of this, and the last, republican congressional sessions.
Using immigration as a battering ram against Obama the republicans have done no good, and serious harm to people in crisis from all over the world.
Let US remember that it was the machinations of Reagan and Bush I that has caused a great deal of the trouble in Central and South America. It was the war crime of bush ii that caused the unrest in the Middle East, which led to the crisis in Syria. (Syria also got hit by some global warming droughts which the republican congress has also done absolutely nothing to mitigate.)
The false equivalence that is so popular in the news business these days is the reason we are looking at the candidacy of T rump and the virtual shutdown of our government.
I keep reminding these fine writers that in a fascist state reporters are generally out of work and in prison.
4
The Central American countries have their own ISIS... The drug cartels. It's up to their governments to get rid of them. Unfortunately, there is no effort to curb the violence and poverty that exists. Instead, the governments will continue to take our foreign aid to line their own pockets. By the way, who are their leaders, and why are you not writing about or exposing who they are? The Central Americans should go to other countries nearby like Costa Rica, Nicaragua, or even Columbia, where at least they all speak the same language . But let's face it, the economic rewards for their citizens are far greater by coming to the United States, getting refugee status, and then living off the US taxpayer dollars for years to come. Sorry, I am totally sick and tired of all of the sob stories. Their governments are a disgrace and global pressure should be put on their leaders to actually govern their countries and get rid of the cartels violence and poverty.
11
The United States cannot be expected to solve all of the world's (or even the Americas') problems and in a time of anemic economic and employment growth and persistent poverty among some segments of our population it just makes no sense to admit large numbers of immigrants who don't have the educational and other skills needed to thrive in the modern economy.
20
One's life chances are pretty much determined at birth, an event experienced by every person on Earth, and over which no child can excercise even the slightest modicum of influence or control.
Blind Luck and random circumstance may not determine the full sway of a person's life, but they surely will have a tremendous, forceful effect on the trajectory of a one's future. If you choose your parents well--- opt to be, for example,the offspring of wealthy, Ivy League graduates---then there is a likelihood of a decent life. Not a certainty, of course, but the odds would suggest that your future will fare better than if you had thrown your lot with a family of impecunious, poorly educated refugees, fleeing from death threats issued by armed rackatering, amoral gang members.
Although we are powerless to offset the likely consequences of a badly chosen birth, we might be able to lessen the burden of the families mentioned by Mr Kristoff by addressing the violent gangs who are the cause of such terror and misery. If these murderous thugs could be removed then there would be no violent impetus forcing decent people to abandon their countries for fear of their lives.
Blind Luck and random circumstance may not determine the full sway of a person's life, but they surely will have a tremendous, forceful effect on the trajectory of a one's future. If you choose your parents well--- opt to be, for example,the offspring of wealthy, Ivy League graduates---then there is a likelihood of a decent life. Not a certainty, of course, but the odds would suggest that your future will fare better than if you had thrown your lot with a family of impecunious, poorly educated refugees, fleeing from death threats issued by armed rackatering, amoral gang members.
Although we are powerless to offset the likely consequences of a badly chosen birth, we might be able to lessen the burden of the families mentioned by Mr Kristoff by addressing the violent gangs who are the cause of such terror and misery. If these murderous thugs could be removed then there would be no violent impetus forcing decent people to abandon their countries for fear of their lives.
1
First the US went into Central America destroying economies, installing criminal dictators and decimating social networks. Then, we sent gangs that had been formed mostly in the California prisom system back to Central America where they have been wreaking further havoc. We have the former United Fruit Company and others along with the CIA. When these children made the harrowing trip to finally cross the US border in a desperate attempt to save their own lives, they were incarcerated like criminals and ultimately returned to their probable deaths.
Here in Amerika, we love to take responsibility for our own actions. Except when racist attitudes and small-mindedness are more important.
Here in Amerika, we love to take responsibility for our own actions. Except when racist attitudes and small-mindedness are more important.
1
The current administration's response was to a crisis of overloaded resources in border states that were trying to handle the numbers who had made it into US territory. The current policy is not great but it puts the burden on Latin American countries rather than local officials in Texas, NM, AZ and other US states.
I am hopeful the next administration can focus attention on the root issues of poverty and gang violence in Latin America.
I am hopeful the next administration can focus attention on the root issues of poverty and gang violence in Latin America.
3
How is it we never address or even mention the root cause of most of the problems of the world---people having children they can't sustain. Where is the responsibility of adults having babies? Most of the children will grow up and repeat the process of depending on someone else to take care of their kids.
29
I'm stunned by the unsympathetic and downright reactionary comments in reaction to this article. Of course the U.S. should prevent these refugee families from being returned to these countries only to be victimized by gangs. Or was that only OK when immigrants were coming from Western Europe?
14
Well-regulated immigration can be of great benefit and serve humanitarian needs. It can also be a detriment if handled irresponsibly as has been demonstrated by terrorism by first and second generations (home grown) immigrants, and wage stagnation.
America has been a country of legal immigrants entering an environment where they are freed to make the best of their abilities to be self-sufficient. Families who willingly came, including my wife’s, left the security of their home cultures, extended families and friends, often by funding a trip across the ocean and sometimes escaping leaving their wealth behind. They were some of the most ambitious, passionate go-getters the world had to offer.
To benefit America and immigrants, we should have a rule of law immigration system. There are plenty of slots for true refugees including unskilled jobs currently held by illegal economic immigrants. Freeing those as needed through deporting the less needy illegal economic immigrants can enable us to accept the most needing refugees.
ALL Immigrants, including refugees, should affirm core American values. These include a belief in self-reliance, that government has a monopoly on the use for force excluding self-defense, and that legal justice, criminal and civil, is defined exclusively by the secular system of laws. Law regarding freedom of religion, speech, and women’s rights must be followed. Those who break the laws and refuse to be self-sufficient should be deported.
America has been a country of legal immigrants entering an environment where they are freed to make the best of their abilities to be self-sufficient. Families who willingly came, including my wife’s, left the security of their home cultures, extended families and friends, often by funding a trip across the ocean and sometimes escaping leaving their wealth behind. They were some of the most ambitious, passionate go-getters the world had to offer.
To benefit America and immigrants, we should have a rule of law immigration system. There are plenty of slots for true refugees including unskilled jobs currently held by illegal economic immigrants. Freeing those as needed through deporting the less needy illegal economic immigrants can enable us to accept the most needing refugees.
ALL Immigrants, including refugees, should affirm core American values. These include a belief in self-reliance, that government has a monopoly on the use for force excluding self-defense, and that legal justice, criminal and civil, is defined exclusively by the secular system of laws. Law regarding freedom of religion, speech, and women’s rights must be followed. Those who break the laws and refuse to be self-sufficient should be deported.
13
A key question that is rarely discussed in this context is what are the underlying reasons for extreme poverty, violence, and lawlessness that these poor people are running from? All evidence points to the US backed coup of 2009, which deposed of a leftist president Manuel Zelaya, who had raised the minimum wage in Honduras to about $9 (a day) and proposed a number of other reforms that would have increased the living standards of the population. This did not go well with corporations, like Dole, Inc., that use Honduras along with other Latin American countries as a de facto source of slave labor. The hypocrisy here is stunning.
16
It is a brutal situation, and not a lot different from the child soldiers in parts of Africa. Children are to be used: trained to be ruthless, or used as entertainment for the ruthless.
As we look at the global refugee situation - people fleeing from terror, war, gangs, violence, famine, and excruciating economic distress - we see a problem bigger than anyone country, any one region can absorb.
Nicholas Kristof can ask us, in all good conscience to take people in one by one or family by family, and each of those rescues is a net add for good. But it is only a drop in the bucket, and we cannot take the whole bucket.
An enormous number of people live in failed states and violent distress. And none of us in the US, in Europe, in the UN, have a solution.
As we look at the global refugee situation - people fleeing from terror, war, gangs, violence, famine, and excruciating economic distress - we see a problem bigger than anyone country, any one region can absorb.
Nicholas Kristof can ask us, in all good conscience to take people in one by one or family by family, and each of those rescues is a net add for good. But it is only a drop in the bucket, and we cannot take the whole bucket.
An enormous number of people live in failed states and violent distress. And none of us in the US, in Europe, in the UN, have a solution.
14
Unchecked immigration is not a long-term solution. So what can we do to fix the source of the problem? If we take in all of the innocent victims, don't you think the predators will follow their prey?
16
It's a shame that a country that proclaims itself exceptional and
a moral beacon, turns humans away so they can be tormented
and killed. Wonder if our policy would be different if these refugees
were white people?
a moral beacon, turns humans away so they can be tormented
and killed. Wonder if our policy would be different if these refugees
were white people?
6
For each person complaining about how awful and heartless Americans are, I recommend that you each adopt at least one child or adult illegal immigrant, hire a lawyer for them, fill out paperwork for them, house them, feed them, cloth them, educate them, provide medical care for them, guide them, and care for them daily for as many years as are required to ensure that they become fully contributing, law abiding, good and decent American citizens. That should solve it.
In other words: Put your money where your mouth is.
In other words: Put your money where your mouth is.
6
footnote to my last post
And then at 510am a few days ago there was a man speaking Arabic taking pictures of where the gas tanker comes in to give to ISIS types where one hand held weapon could blow away my great city and the gangs taking over
there must be a better way
And then at 510am a few days ago there was a man speaking Arabic taking pictures of where the gas tanker comes in to give to ISIS types where one hand held weapon could blow away my great city and the gangs taking over
there must be a better way
5
In the meantime Denmark and Sweden are also deporting "refugees" because of crimes committed in their countries. Germany is also beginning deportations. Swedish newspapers are now reporting the government suppression of news about rapes and robberies.
Countries have a right to decide who gets to live in them. Claiming refugee status and then mucking up your host isn't going to fly. There's a great deal of ingratitude being shown by these people for the welcome and maintenance they've received. You obviously have not seen the videos showing the rioting and demands for more money and benefits and a house or apartment instead of their living in the shelters that were ginned up when they showed up unannounced.
Countries don't harm people. They harm themselves.
Countries have a right to decide who gets to live in them. Claiming refugee status and then mucking up your host isn't going to fly. There's a great deal of ingratitude being shown by these people for the welcome and maintenance they've received. You obviously have not seen the videos showing the rioting and demands for more money and benefits and a house or apartment instead of their living in the shelters that were ginned up when they showed up unannounced.
Countries don't harm people. They harm themselves.
27
The deportation of criminals is debated intensely in Denmark. But the children deported from the US are not criminals, but victims of crimes.
Please do not exculpate the US by referring to a country which has a far lower rate of deportation of any kind than the US - and far less crime and violence in general.
Please do not exculpate the US by referring to a country which has a far lower rate of deportation of any kind than the US - and far less crime and violence in general.
Thank you for writing this piece. We are living the reality of what our country has helped to create. Interventions by our government over the years have supported dishonest leaders in the nations south of our border. This corrupt leadership has benefited business people and further impoverished poor people. By creating instability the U.S. also has some responsibility for the evolution of gangs and the illegal drug trade. Now people are fleeing for their lives, not just jobs. Apart from trying to help those who are fleeing, our government needs to promote real programs to help, not exploit people. This needs to occur here in the U.S. and in the other countries that we have historically exploited. As for funding sources, one thing to consider is that U.S. military spending is more than the next 7 biggest spenders combined. By the way, did we ever get to vote on that?
http://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0053_defense-comparison
http://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0053_defense-comparison
9
The US needs a coherent refugee policy other than only accepting people from regimes we deem oppressive, or from war zones we were involved in. When people are threatened, kidnapped, killed and communities are terrorized,then those people are refugee candidates. Many of the commentators here are lumping everyone together. American xenophobia and cynicism seem to be acceptable stances in the age of Trump;maybe they should direct their isolationism and anger at shutting down the hundreds of military bases overseas and reducing our military by 25 percent? Quibbling over the care of refugee children is trivial and heartless.
4
Nicholas Kristof has written on this topic before, and more accounts of individual tragedy and horror do not add much. There is indeed a powerful moral issue at stake here, but that is not the whole story, and Kristof's telling of it displays a willingness to glide past important contextual complexities.
Many children and young adults have indeed been fleeing Central America to escape living hell. But some are piggybacking on the possibility to flee for other reasons. It is difficult to devise an effective means of distinguishing the two, and helping those in urgent need without encouraging those only pretending to face the same urgency. Which is, of course, not a reason for not trying to construct such a screening process. But ignoring that dimension altogether is not an viable approach.
Ultimately, the only effective and lasting solution would have to involve institutional and societal change in places such Honduras. Rich countries have neglected and exploited their poorer neighbors for decades if not centuries. No amount of moral outrage about the consequences can absolve them of their share of the responsibility for tangibly addressing the root causes. This is not a problem that can be effectively dealt with merely by clicking on the internet, donating a few pennies, most of which will not get to those who need them, or focusing blame a few politicians.
Many children and young adults have indeed been fleeing Central America to escape living hell. But some are piggybacking on the possibility to flee for other reasons. It is difficult to devise an effective means of distinguishing the two, and helping those in urgent need without encouraging those only pretending to face the same urgency. Which is, of course, not a reason for not trying to construct such a screening process. But ignoring that dimension altogether is not an viable approach.
Ultimately, the only effective and lasting solution would have to involve institutional and societal change in places such Honduras. Rich countries have neglected and exploited their poorer neighbors for decades if not centuries. No amount of moral outrage about the consequences can absolve them of their share of the responsibility for tangibly addressing the root causes. This is not a problem that can be effectively dealt with merely by clicking on the internet, donating a few pennies, most of which will not get to those who need them, or focusing blame a few politicians.
32
So Darwinian.
A friend just retired in the children's community, we spoke of many things last evening. A skeleton crew is to be seen at HQ, other staff members are being sent to Europe. A moment in history in our international agency, 'you are a witness to a big change', I ventured but she will always look after children and their rights.
'They are bringing guns to the Convention', she added. Silence. There is no hope then. Did you see the photo of the young woman, a nurse and mother of three, facing the armed forces in Dallas during the demonstrations, I will forward it to you, and did you know that the National Guard fired on students at Kent in the 60s?
There is so much that we may not want to know, and yet I told her of the two brothers, American-Mexicans, the Police took them away in their car, handcuffed the 12 year-old, one cop played Russian Roulette. Santos Rodriguez was the young boy's name.
Whether my friend and I will ever see each other again, we do not have the answer. She has a family of her own, all grown, college graduates on scholarship, they are hard working. Best, they know the difference between Right and Wrong, while violence is growing, and there may be a time when one will take a hard stand if under attack.
Homage to my friends in the Humanitarian Community, some gone long ago, we will never surrender, we will never give up for the Love of our Children. Can you blame the young exposed if they do not believe in God?
'They are bringing guns to the Convention', she added. Silence. There is no hope then. Did you see the photo of the young woman, a nurse and mother of three, facing the armed forces in Dallas during the demonstrations, I will forward it to you, and did you know that the National Guard fired on students at Kent in the 60s?
There is so much that we may not want to know, and yet I told her of the two brothers, American-Mexicans, the Police took them away in their car, handcuffed the 12 year-old, one cop played Russian Roulette. Santos Rodriguez was the young boy's name.
Whether my friend and I will ever see each other again, we do not have the answer. She has a family of her own, all grown, college graduates on scholarship, they are hard working. Best, they know the difference between Right and Wrong, while violence is growing, and there may be a time when one will take a hard stand if under attack.
Homage to my friends in the Humanitarian Community, some gone long ago, we will never surrender, we will never give up for the Love of our Children. Can you blame the young exposed if they do not believe in God?
3
The heartlessness and callousness of many of the comments is truly disheartening. These coming largely, I would imagine, from people who would consider themselves good Christians (they're definitely not displaying a WWJD attitude). It's true that we can't take in every person in trouble, and the long-term solution is to enhance stability in the countries these people are fleeing. But we are a better country - I would hope - than to send people back to such dangerous situations.
5
As tragic as are the individual stories I don't see how the American public is going to change its idea about letting in refugees unless, AT THE SAME TIME, we pursue some kind of action to help the countries in question return to law and order.
How we do THAT is the real challenge.
We're already in over our heads in the Middle East, trying to keep NATO's eastern edge strong, to send a message to Putin, and now messing around in the South China Sea to send a message to China. It seems to me, at some point we have to start pulling back somewhere and finding some "solution" other than military, to deal with our issues.
Any suggestions?
How we do THAT is the real challenge.
We're already in over our heads in the Middle East, trying to keep NATO's eastern edge strong, to send a message to Putin, and now messing around in the South China Sea to send a message to China. It seems to me, at some point we have to start pulling back somewhere and finding some "solution" other than military, to deal with our issues.
Any suggestions?
3
This is not only immoral, it is absolutely unacceptable. As President Obama himself often says, "this is not who we are!"
2
Dear Mr. Kristof,
How do the gangs maintain their power?
If it's by dealing drugs then the answer is simple; legalize all the drugs and knock the financial base for their power out from under them.
If, however, the gangs exist because of poverty and lack of opportunity, then there's almost nothing this country can do; we can't even control the slaughter in our own big city ghettos so it's silly to expect us to protect kids in Guatemala or any other country when we can't even protect our own youth.
How do the gangs maintain their power?
If it's by dealing drugs then the answer is simple; legalize all the drugs and knock the financial base for their power out from under them.
If, however, the gangs exist because of poverty and lack of opportunity, then there's almost nothing this country can do; we can't even control the slaughter in our own big city ghettos so it's silly to expect us to protect kids in Guatemala or any other country when we can't even protect our own youth.
7
We must help the people we know.
The gangs are insane and they must be deprogrammed. Right now, their attitude to life is like those who belong to ISIS. I agree with NK.
There is also racism involved. I am sure if "Elena" was British or French or Swedish, the world would react.
Where is the UN?
There are so many problems in the world but this takes the cake.
I would be happy to adopt the abused Honduran and El Salvadorian kids.
The gangs are insane and they must be deprogrammed. Right now, their attitude to life is like those who belong to ISIS. I agree with NK.
There is also racism involved. I am sure if "Elena" was British or French or Swedish, the world would react.
Where is the UN?
There are so many problems in the world but this takes the cake.
I would be happy to adopt the abused Honduran and El Salvadorian kids.
5
Once again, Kristof, who I am sure is a very nice person, focuses on the symptoms, rather than the problem. Follow the symptoms back to their source:
Drug laws in the US need to be changed to eliminate the black market for drugs.
Drug laws in the US need to be changed to eliminate the black market for drugs.
8
Why did the government allow them to enter in the first place? Immigration reform and other important issues are ignored by the US Congress
10
Donald Tump's favourite poem from Ellis Island:
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
3
Any one who doesn't want to let these children and their families into the safety of the U.S. has some cold heart.
6
It is obvious that the citizens of these countries need a well regulated militia that keeps and bears arms and knows how and when to use them.
8
Yes but can the US be expected to support all Honduan families in crisis? What's happening there is tragic, horrible but we have Detriot, Newark, Baton Rouge... why is our nation responsible for solving gang violence 1,000 miles from our border? Why is no one taking to the task the incompetent leadership of Honduras? Moving all Honduran children to the USA is the solution? I'm sorry but your argument doesn't resonate with most Americans.
15
Some of your comments are horrifyingly callous, some just seem ignorant. Did you read the part where it says that they don’t actually want to come to the US? People want to stay in their home country, whether it be somewhere in Central America, or somewhere in the Middle East. Nobody dreams of displacing their family to flee to a foreign land. But Central America, like the Middle East, does not exist in a vacuum and it is time the Western world took some responsibility for how our greedy actions affect people in places we have never heard of. Talk is cheap.
12
No, American talk is cheap.
Maybe abortion or birth control should be used instead of hand outs
20
Enough already. We can't be the world's babysitter and they can't all come to America. And if they are in Mexico, they are no longer refugees, they have reached a safe country. By Mr. Kristoff's reckoning, everyone in every third world country should have free passage to the US. The only thing we should be funding in Central America is birth control.
23
As with most reports regarding immigration, the NYT fails once again to distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants. There is a GREAT difference. Blaming us for this situation is unwarranted, and I, for one, refuse to accept such blame. Unfortunately for the children, their parents or guardians chose to come here by breaking the law.
16
PogoWasRight is so wrong. The hands of the US are deeply involved in this gang warfare in Latin America. Speaking for El Salvador, the Reagan administration armed and trained the military, supported the right wing death squads and left the people nothing more than tokens in food and opportunity. The gangs began in LA and deported to countries many of the kids never knew.
This mess leaves blood on our hands. We keep trying to wash off the stain but it won't quit.
This mess leaves blood on our hands. We keep trying to wash off the stain but it won't quit.
3
While I applaud my Kristol's efforts, we cannot continue to aid the world's refugees and neglect our own internal problems. 58 million on food stamps or other government assistance, unemployment NOT what the government says it is. There is a limit and bringing in more refugees will only make life for them less than they might expect. Just look at the front page today, as see that the GOP are against protecting a sacred Indian site, they seem pretty much to hate women in general though some are even married to one.
If something needs to be done, it would with the leaders of the nations where these live and were born. Where is Spain here. The cultures would be more similar and language is common. How many of these kid has Spain taken in?
I hate to say it but "do goodism" is a vampire that will eventually leave us all dead. And the notion that we all came from oppressed countries, while true, happened at a time when the world population was 1.6 billion, about a 4th of what it is now.
When they give safety instructions on every flight, they tell the adults to put on their oxygen mask first, then help their child. We need to put on ours first, then if we can, help others. It is good , life-saving advice.
and BTW, I had distant relatives die in Warsaw in 1939, so Mr Kristol, don't lecture us on family hardships.
If something needs to be done, it would with the leaders of the nations where these live and were born. Where is Spain here. The cultures would be more similar and language is common. How many of these kid has Spain taken in?
I hate to say it but "do goodism" is a vampire that will eventually leave us all dead. And the notion that we all came from oppressed countries, while true, happened at a time when the world population was 1.6 billion, about a 4th of what it is now.
When they give safety instructions on every flight, they tell the adults to put on their oxygen mask first, then help their child. We need to put on ours first, then if we can, help others. It is good , life-saving advice.
and BTW, I had distant relatives die in Warsaw in 1939, so Mr Kristol, don't lecture us on family hardships.
18
I am not equating humans to cats, but this is the best analogy I can think of to explain my feelings.
I love cats. I think all cats deserve love and care. I live with two cats myself. Let's say a million starving, abandoned cats were just dumped in my country and the word goes out for people to adopt, otherwise they'll be put down or returned, which amounts to much the same thing. OK, I love cats, I'll adopt one more. It's a little less room and a little more annoyance for everyone, but we cope and we're ultimately OK.
Now here comes another, but two million this time. Can I take two more cats? But I already have three cats! It's not that I don't think all those cats don't deserve great lives, but how many can I take? And what will happen when three million cats show up?
Ultimately the only solution is to make sure that there aren't starving, tortured cats dumped in the first place, and that's a multipronged solution.
I love cats. I think all cats deserve love and care. I live with two cats myself. Let's say a million starving, abandoned cats were just dumped in my country and the word goes out for people to adopt, otherwise they'll be put down or returned, which amounts to much the same thing. OK, I love cats, I'll adopt one more. It's a little less room and a little more annoyance for everyone, but we cope and we're ultimately OK.
Now here comes another, but two million this time. Can I take two more cats? But I already have three cats! It's not that I don't think all those cats don't deserve great lives, but how many can I take? And what will happen when three million cats show up?
Ultimately the only solution is to make sure that there aren't starving, tortured cats dumped in the first place, and that's a multipronged solution.
17
Spay and neuter pets! People, and I mean all people who have more than two children are doing a disservice to the world! Population reduction is the only long-term solution.
But further, I can't understand how supposedly intelligent people can think slaughtering and abusing hundreds of billions of sentient animals (that were created by "God") is just fine. Human life is getting cheaper by the day because life is not really valued except when it comes to "me and Mine". So the violence will keep on going as long as this situation prevails. Dumb self-centered Humanity must pay the price for its monstrous cruelty to the rest of the planet, or did the Bible and other religious nonsense tell you otherwise?
But further, I can't understand how supposedly intelligent people can think slaughtering and abusing hundreds of billions of sentient animals (that were created by "God") is just fine. Human life is getting cheaper by the day because life is not really valued except when it comes to "me and Mine". So the violence will keep on going as long as this situation prevails. Dumb self-centered Humanity must pay the price for its monstrous cruelty to the rest of the planet, or did the Bible and other religious nonsense tell you otherwise?
5
Sorry Really dumb analogy. Except for Native Americans every one of us is a stray cat or came from one.
"I’m not arguing that the U.S. should open its doors wide to all Central Americans ..."
Of course you are! Many residents of Honduras and El Salvador could tell a similar story; they and their families are not safe, living in these violent countries. Your answer (and the in-house answer of the Times) to this problem is for us to let them all come to the US.
If that isn't your answer, then you need to explain which would-be Central American immigrants you would keep out, and why it would be acceptable to do so, given that some of them are likely to suffer from the violence you describe.
"I’m mostly a fan of the Obama administration, but this is just plain immoral."
Maybe so, but do you know what else is immoral? Having four kids, when you can't even keep one of them safe. Having four kids, given the limited employment opportunities in many parts of Central America.
Nicholas Kristof has a lot to say about Americans' responsibilities to solve problems in every corner of the globe, but precious little to say about the responsibilities people in these places to solve their own problems.
Regarding responsibility, where is Elena's father, in the picture accompanying this article, or in the article itself? Where is the government of Honduras?
Of course you are! Many residents of Honduras and El Salvador could tell a similar story; they and their families are not safe, living in these violent countries. Your answer (and the in-house answer of the Times) to this problem is for us to let them all come to the US.
If that isn't your answer, then you need to explain which would-be Central American immigrants you would keep out, and why it would be acceptable to do so, given that some of them are likely to suffer from the violence you describe.
"I’m mostly a fan of the Obama administration, but this is just plain immoral."
Maybe so, but do you know what else is immoral? Having four kids, when you can't even keep one of them safe. Having four kids, given the limited employment opportunities in many parts of Central America.
Nicholas Kristof has a lot to say about Americans' responsibilities to solve problems in every corner of the globe, but precious little to say about the responsibilities people in these places to solve their own problems.
Regarding responsibility, where is Elena's father, in the picture accompanying this article, or in the article itself? Where is the government of Honduras?
34
I am greatly dismayed by so many heartless, bigoted, ignorant comments in response to this article. Alas, this is the US, where we are all entitled to express our opinions (for now, at least). But how did we become so hardened to the plights of others? Have we forgotten that so many of us are direct descendants of people in similar situations? My grandparents fled pogroms in eastern Europe 100 years ago. Too many Americans seem to have forgotten their own history.
16
We are not hardened to the plights of others at all!! We are facing the truth -- we must get to root causes, not just slap band aids on gaping wounds. It's not a simple fast fix.
We must seek and implement hard nosed solutions to stop the criminal conditions and strife overcoming countries in our hemisphere, as well as around the world, at their source
Realistically, the United States can not fit nor afford everyone in the world within its borders. We must help others solve their own deep rooted problems, without ignoring our own profoundly vexing problems. Alas. There is the rub!
Something must be done about the enormous rate of world population growth, or we can expect more and continuing surges of illegal immigrants, violence, and civil disruptions.
As demands for resources increase, the pressures of scarcity are becoming more intense. It is becoming survival by any dog-eat-dog criminal means available, and it will become even more acute the longer population growth goes on unchecked.
We must seek and implement hard nosed solutions to stop the criminal conditions and strife overcoming countries in our hemisphere, as well as around the world, at their source
Realistically, the United States can not fit nor afford everyone in the world within its borders. We must help others solve their own deep rooted problems, without ignoring our own profoundly vexing problems. Alas. There is the rub!
Something must be done about the enormous rate of world population growth, or we can expect more and continuing surges of illegal immigrants, violence, and civil disruptions.
As demands for resources increase, the pressures of scarcity are becoming more intense. It is becoming survival by any dog-eat-dog criminal means available, and it will become even more acute the longer population growth goes on unchecked.
12
Mine fled also - but they obeyed the law. They got to the US and the quote was up. So - instead of claiming "rights" and jumping ship or similar - they stayed on board the ship until the new year. They entered legally.
7
I am certain there are heartless people, but one needs to understand limits. the cornucopia stopped giving a long time ago. someone will have to pay for all this and are you going to step up to plate and donate your annual salary? There is no free lunch. Will the GOP support government spending for immigrants? Not likely since their presidential candidate this year wants to build a wall to keep Mexicans out. He represents are a very large group of voters and they will be interacting with these immigrants. Do you really think they will feel WELCOME in the USA?
5
Naturally I feel bad for these people. But the answer is not to empty out other countries so the can live in the U.S. There are millions of children who are at risk in the world and we cannot save all of them. If we did, our country would become as big a mess as the ones that they left from. We can't find housing for at risk children in the US. Those that cannot find a foster home sometimes end up living in institutions that are no better than a jail and expose them to more danger. It sounds nice to say we should take in all the at risk children of the world, but before we do that we should look at taking care of the at risk youth in the inner cities of this country who are also threatened by gang violence. You could have just as easily highlighted a picture of any one of thousands of children in the US who are underfed and face gun violence every day.
I am a bleeding heart liberal but I know the United States or Europe can't economically or culturally afford to allow 10s of millions of poor, oppressed and marginalized people to illegally flood across their borders and let them stay. I read a survey last year that an estimated 150 million people from around the world would love to immigrate to the United States and I am very sure this was very low ball figure. I read that half of Nigeria wants to immigrate to the United States or Europe, and that's 85 million people.
The only solution to the violence and poverty that these people are experiencing in these horrible countries is to revolt and reshape their countries and regions, and give women more status and rights. America cannot save or take in millions of children. To be clear, I completely disagree with Mr. Kristof's one sided and intellectually weak puff piece that favors illegal immigration.
The only solution to the violence and poverty that these people are experiencing in these horrible countries is to revolt and reshape their countries and regions, and give women more status and rights. America cannot save or take in millions of children. To be clear, I completely disagree with Mr. Kristof's one sided and intellectually weak puff piece that favors illegal immigration.
52
We have refugee policies for a reason, and that reason is to protect people who are at risk of torture or death if they stay at home. Are you saying that the better policy is to just let them die?
Plus, did you not read the article? The issues in Central America aren't from the government, or rather are because of criminal gangs that the government can't control. We, the USA, are the cause of those gangs. We caught MS 13 members, put them in prison which hardened them further (because the US doesn't believe in rehabilitation), then deported them to a place that couldn't handle them. The gang violence in Central American is largely our fault. Don't we have a responsibility to at least protect some of the victims? I think so.
Plus, did you not read the article? The issues in Central America aren't from the government, or rather are because of criminal gangs that the government can't control. We, the USA, are the cause of those gangs. We caught MS 13 members, put them in prison which hardened them further (because the US doesn't believe in rehabilitation), then deported them to a place that couldn't handle them. The gang violence in Central American is largely our fault. Don't we have a responsibility to at least protect some of the victims? I think so.
7
This article has nothing to do with "illegal" immigration. The vast majority of Central Americans are attempting to reach the US in order to apply for refugee status, which they are entitled to do by international law based on treaties in which the US is a signatory. If this were not the case, why would so many Hondurans and Salvadorans who manage to reach the border turn themselves in to immigration authorities rather than go underground?
7
M: Finally, an informed response! Thank you a million times over for bringing this information into the discourse. Most Americans don't pay attention and seemingly don't care to know about the background to this story. Yes, we have a significant responsibility in creating this mess but apparently as look as we don't have to look at it, it's not our problem. Like so many of the policies that our tax dollars have funded in Central and South America that have supported dictators and destabilized entire regions.
2
Who are we as a country if we turn our backs to people who need us the most? Its horrifying to consider the life of terror and fear these refugees live through. The United States is their only hope. We live in one of the greatest countries in the world and live in more prosperity than the vast majority of people throughout the world. Why is it that we cannot share that prosperity and be as rich in our compassion as we are in our wealth? So maybe we, as a country, are as callous as many of the comments I have read. I am not. I want to know what I can do to help. If anyone has any ideas, please share them.
4
"The United States is their only hope. We live in one of the greatest countries in the world and live in more prosperity than the vast majority of people throughout the world."
We have 58 million people on food stamps or other government assistance. The flood of people turning retirement age will reduce the amount of taxes we collect and thereby reducing the ability of the USA to help itself.
We have so internal problems of our own that some might say we are the TITANIC of nations and you think this is a lifeboat.
We have 58 million people on food stamps or other government assistance. The flood of people turning retirement age will reduce the amount of taxes we collect and thereby reducing the ability of the USA to help itself.
We have so internal problems of our own that some might say we are the TITANIC of nations and you think this is a lifeboat.
5
Are Americans ready to adopt these children?
9
Judging by the number of people I know personally who travel to China, Russia, Haiti etc to adopt I would guess yes.
1
Not me
Most of us are struggling to raise our own kids under dreadful leader Obama
Most of us are struggling to raise our own kids under dreadful leader Obama
2
These "refugees" should have stopped and requested asylum at the first safe country they crossed through. They didn't. This looks suspiciously like country shopping.
47
Too many people, too few resources, too many guns, too much inequality and too many non-functioning governments.
The US can't be the only police to apply order to the world. People fleeing their dysfunctional or corrupt governments can't just run away and start a new life somewhere else without participating in someway to put the old place right. Everyone wants change and no one wants to participate.
There should be no American involvement without the draft and every refugee should be conscripted to some participatory role.
The US can't be the only police to apply order to the world. People fleeing their dysfunctional or corrupt governments can't just run away and start a new life somewhere else without participating in someway to put the old place right. Everyone wants change and no one wants to participate.
There should be no American involvement without the draft and every refugee should be conscripted to some participatory role.
22
I agree with most of what you have written. Best example of 'running away and start a new life somewhere else without participating in some way to put the old place right" is the 'refugees' from Syria and other mid-East countries. The earliest refugees were men - young, strong, fit. They want the West to take care of them. Some of the men were safe, in Turkey, but left for Germany. Why? "Because they will give us apartments and money and college'.
These societies must fix their own countries.
These societies must fix their own countries.
7
Deirdre, how do children participate? What you suggest is ludicrous, and inhumane. Adult refugees often bring children with them. You think they should abandon those children, take up arms, and return to fight for their land, property, and families? Someone fleeing violence should only be granted asylum if they are willing to fight? Did you even read this article?
When will wealthy liberals put their money where their mouths are? Whenever there's a humanitarian crisis in the world, they of course want to help, but they hardly ever do it in their own neighborhoods and homes. Instead they look at working class Americans, and say "push over, there are refugees moving into your neighborhood." And worse, there's never enough funding to help the school's educate newcomers, or to refurbish the housing for them, or to help them find jobs. There's never much of anything, other than accusations of xenophobia to anyone who objects.
.
It doesn't have to be like that. Some wealthy Germans started welcoming Syrian refugees into their own homes. If well to do Americans feel for kids fleeing violence in Central America, they could do the same: you all have guest rooms, right?
.
It doesn't have to be like that. Some wealthy Germans started welcoming Syrian refugees into their own homes. If well to do Americans feel for kids fleeing violence in Central America, they could do the same: you all have guest rooms, right?
50
It wouldn't matter if private citizens were willing to take in these refugees (in fact, thousands of Americans are more than willing to help). Our government makes it impossible to help. Did you read the article?
1
My initial thought is that we have overpopulated the world and overrun it but then I consider that we have always had a violent history. It has never mattered if there were few or many humans on the earth we have a history of selfishness and violence not much different than a pack of animals.
Riddle me this..............I always found it a horrible irony that many people who believe in evolution and survival of the fittest also hold dear an empathy for humans around the world that are being killed and abused. The cold truth is that if we are just evolved animals then we are definitely living like animals so why reach for something beyond our condition? Why do we feel compelled to help or why do we feel guilty if we don't help?
If there is something different about us as a species that requires us to live to higher standards then we have to admit that we are sick because we are failing by order of magnitude to live to those standards.
Riddle me this..............I always found it a horrible irony that many people who believe in evolution and survival of the fittest also hold dear an empathy for humans around the world that are being killed and abused. The cold truth is that if we are just evolved animals then we are definitely living like animals so why reach for something beyond our condition? Why do we feel compelled to help or why do we feel guilty if we don't help?
If there is something different about us as a species that requires us to live to higher standards then we have to admit that we are sick because we are failing by order of magnitude to live to those standards.
11
Ok. First, rational thinking people don't "believe" in evolution. Evolution is the scientific explanation for how every species came to be. We don't "believe" in atoms. They just are.
Second, we evolved a large cerebral cortex that enables us to overcome more primitive base instincts. That's why we now have modern civilization and all the benefits that go with it. Thank God you weren't around espousing this point of view during WW 2
Second, we evolved a large cerebral cortex that enables us to overcome more primitive base instincts. That's why we now have modern civilization and all the benefits that go with it. Thank God you weren't around espousing this point of view during WW 2
2
Can we please focus on rural white children and the poverty and malnutrition they face? Can we please focus on African American children who live in food deserts? Can we please focus on Americans in poverty? I have had enough of kristof.
83
I will never have enough of Kristof...
Can't we remember that we are all brothers and sisters and treat the children of others as if they were our own? I could not stop thinking about this and how to help in some way.
Can't we remember that we are all brothers and sisters and treat the children of others as if they were our own? I could not stop thinking about this and how to help in some way.
4
So what do you suggest?
10
I agree that our inaction here is a national shame. However, I am concerned about Mexico's or our ability to absorb tens of thousands of asylees in the face of our current economic and political atmosphere, and an already-substantial level of legal immigration. A better and more permanent solution is to invest smartly in these countries to promote stability and institutions. In the meantime, we should work on ways to lower the crime rate to a manageable level in these Central American localities. I worry that depleting these countries of their good people will ultimately leave more room for the bad guys to thrive.
10
Some of the loudest "Christians" among us decline to suffer the little children. What would Jesus say? Would we ever listen?
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
6
Always impossible to find any reason to repatriate these people. No matter what, no matter how many; how do we send (mostly) children to their deaths? We do not learn from history.
4
Once more we see the hearts and pity come out; which is not at all what is called for. If you are interested in helping kids from South America you need to start ranting about why the USA should take over SA. Stop the whine about how we are obligated to take every kid into our country. There's an endless supply of them. Besides I doubt you live on the southern border.
20
And what is it you want me to do Mr. Kristof? You wrote an article about Sultana and the objective was to allow her to come to the U.S.to study. I wrote my senator (the Democrat - senseless to ask my Republican senator) asking that he read your article and please support Sultana's continued education in America. I never heard from my senator; but then, I never heard from you whether she obtained a passport. Now, what is it you want me to request of my representatives or the president for potentially thousands of children and parents? Right now hundreds of mothers & children who fled because of persecution are held in a facility in Berks County, PA. The court has ordered the facility closed. The county is objecting - really, it is a good source of revenue for the county. What wonderful life would we offer these Latin Americans seeking protection in America if making money from their situation is allowed?
You write heart wrenching articles about desperate people. What am I to say to my government leaders that is a realistic proposal?
You write heart wrenching articles about desperate people. What am I to say to my government leaders that is a realistic proposal?
12
O.K. Let's allow them to be refugees here. Just who is going to feed, house, school, acculturate, train and provide medical care? What, exactly does Kristof see for these refugees once they are here? In 2 years? In 5? In 10? Just how does a simple farmer fit in when
800,000 refugees would make a nice size town. I live in Colorado. Colorado springs has a population half that.
"I’m not arguing that the U.S. should open its doors wide to all Central Americans."If not that, just what ARE you proposing? Refugee camps or what?
800,000 refugees would make a nice size town. I live in Colorado. Colorado springs has a population half that.
"I’m not arguing that the U.S. should open its doors wide to all Central Americans."If not that, just what ARE you proposing? Refugee camps or what?
37
Lots of room in Scarsdale.
21
I agree; this is a heart-breaking situation. However, the idea that this is solved by leaving only the criminals behind sets up a nice cozy situation for the criminals, free farmland and all. Golda Mier, when faced with a proposal that a curfew be imposed on women because of rapes, proposed back that the curfew should be on men because it was men who were committing the crime.
15
2,0005 people were shot, in Chicago, between January 1st and July 5th of this year. Most of the shootings were in the city’s south and west sides. According to the NYT article of 5/27/16, titled "Chicago’s Murder Rate”, these communities have had murder rates that are similar to the world’s most dangerous countries for many years. Where might the mothers and children of these communities seek asylum?
Shouldn’t we be devoting our attention and resources to them before we welcome all of the world’s afflicted?
Shouldn’t we be devoting our attention and resources to them before we welcome all of the world’s afflicted?
37
Well said. We have Third World areas in many of our inner cities, with brutal gangs and drugs and lawlessness. We need liberals to go into these places and help change these neighborhoods. Why go to other countries when so much needs to be done at home?
4
It would be nice if we, as one of the richest nations in human history, could not only take care of our own but help out a few others as well. Wouldn't it?
3
The anecdotal sob stories don't work anymore. Americans can see a brutalized teenage girl of color in any America city without having to leave our own country. We know we need to make things right for her here in America, and if we accept tens of thousands of other people, we won't be able to do that.
Even regular Democrats have woken up and realized that illegal immigration is depressing quality of life and wages for all Americans. Once there is no more child homelessness, and average wages are $30/hour, then we should talk about importing thousands of non-English speakers with zero skills and education.
Even regular Democrats have woken up and realized that illegal immigration is depressing quality of life and wages for all Americans. Once there is no more child homelessness, and average wages are $30/hour, then we should talk about importing thousands of non-English speakers with zero skills and education.
52
How do you know what their skills and education levels are? We have room for hard workers, for those who want to contribute. We have enormous empty lands, we have room. Why are you so threatened by people you do not know?
2
These are not our people. This is not our problem. End of story.
26
Your compassion is truly touching. A real inspiration. We are all one another's "people". Political borders are artificial. Human beings are real.
1
Our money buys their illegal drugs and thereby finances their gangs.
We are ALREADY involved.
We are ALREADY involved.
1
I like Kristof and admire his "git," as in "git up and go,"his willingness to leave his :"bonne planque,"whether it be his den, his apple orchard, or faculty lounge to do investigative reporting. However, re the Guatemalan family he writes about and its need for asylum, I believe that it is a matter of priorities, and that there r enough at risk children and parents living in housing projects and low income, crime ridden areas here who deserve his attention, and that their needs come first.Why is he not in Sandtown, Cass Corridor or Stockton helping down and out here?We cannot solve world's problems.We have 94 million unemployed, 47 million on food stamps, and a decaying infrastructure."Reflechissez: When I was stationed in various w. African countries, I befriended the occasional street dog, and always returned home with him or her to the states because I knew the helpless creature could not survive otherwise. (See my video,"Krueger and my Dog"}. My funds were limited, but I managed. Why does not Mr. Kristof do likewise re the family? He has the means to do so.If he wants them looked after and safe, it is up to him to spring for the necessary funds.All the videos in the world will not keep them out of harm's way An expenditure from him personally can do that. It is up to him to intervene to save them. Everything else is a distraction. If you want a clear conscience, Mr,Kristof, act to do so. Ur endorsement for their visas would mean everything."Il faut ce qu'il faut!"
20
Perhaps if Elena's mother did not have four children she and her family would not be so poor. Hondurans have more than three kids per woman. There's much of their problem right here.
55
Boy, it's easy to judge from where you sit, isn't it? Do you know anything about access to contraception or abortion in Honduras? Do you know anything about the choices a woman may have to make to survive? Do you know anything about rape or sexual assault? This woman has experienced hardships that you as a US citizen can scarcely imagine. Have some empathy for her and her children, please. Or even if you do blame her, don't blame the children. Do you have any solutions, or just judgement?
2
The problem is here, and these people's lives are as precious as those you love. So let's not opine on birth control, let's figure out how we can help save these people.
2
It's the church! Church makes people believe that kids are sent by god.
3
Many of these comments note -- correctly -- that the crisis in Central America is causally linked to the U.S. War on Drugs and the legacy of U.S. involvement in the 1980s, support for the Contras in Nicaragua being one example. What's missing here is a discussion of trade policy and Neoliberalism.
In part, the rationale for NAFTA is the early 1990s was that trade liberalization would lead to democratization and "convergence." The theory was that trade would help poorer countries catch up with the U.S. in terms of the standard of living, and that the rural poor would enter the middle class as they moved into the burgeoning manufacturing sector.
Now -- trade indeed does produce benefits, but democratization and "convergence"? Not so much...
If Neoliberalism is part of the problem, and if we can agree that the crisis in Central America is a human rights crisis, then it's time for Neoliberals to take moral ownership of the consequences of Neoliberalism. Systemic diseases require systemic solutions, and the crisis we're talking about is caused the interplay between Neoliberalism and Neoconservatism, which ironically are flip sides of the same foreign policy coin.
In part, the rationale for NAFTA is the early 1990s was that trade liberalization would lead to democratization and "convergence." The theory was that trade would help poorer countries catch up with the U.S. in terms of the standard of living, and that the rural poor would enter the middle class as they moved into the burgeoning manufacturing sector.
Now -- trade indeed does produce benefits, but democratization and "convergence"? Not so much...
If Neoliberalism is part of the problem, and if we can agree that the crisis in Central America is a human rights crisis, then it's time for Neoliberals to take moral ownership of the consequences of Neoliberalism. Systemic diseases require systemic solutions, and the crisis we're talking about is caused the interplay between Neoliberalism and Neoconservatism, which ironically are flip sides of the same foreign policy coin.
11
Nicholas: I join others here in thanking you for continuing to cast light on this appalling and gut-wrenching situation. Unfortunately, I am reminded of the contemptible, ugly scenes of screaming, raving so-called "Americans" who tried to block several busloads of these desperate children in California, and no doubt seriously frightened already deeply traumatized children even more with their venal hatred. That hideous racism and xenophobia turned my stomach, and should shock the conscience of anyone with a scintilla of morality and empathy for those in desperate need of help and succor. This is one of the areas in which the right wing's hysterical rantings about President Obama's border failures are totally false - in fact, he has presided over the deportations of more people than any of his recent predecessors, to his everlasting shame. We have welcomed Cubans with open arms for years; but in the case of these children and families fleeing lethal violence and utter mayhem, we continue to turn a willfully blind eye, and it is a national abomination. I am thankful for those churches in places like Tucson, which have offered sanctuary rather than hatred; love and compassion rather than racial animus. I can only hope that the rest of the nation does the same and soon. If we fail to provide help - we are, indeed, fully complicit in countless deaths.
16
How easy it is to blame Californians for not wanting to have to support on state taxpayer dollars another 100,000+ illegal immigrants or another 50,000 refugees every few months. Come take a look at the conditions of our schools, once the best of the nation 40 years ago and now in the bottom five and explain to us why we should take the illegal immigrants that wealthy, blue cities in other states refused to take during the 2014 tsunami of illegal immigration. Obama scrambled to find places for 500 illegal immigrants at a time, and I remember reading daily in the NYT how one blue city after another refused to take its share. Our population stands at 40% hispanic, much of this from illegal immIgration. We are the number two destination behind Texas for Obama's resettlement of illegal immigrants and those admitted on refugee visas. Do not presume to tell us that California isn't doing its share.
11
Unfortunately this story represents a lot of the world in many other countries. The U.S. needs to save itself from the gangs, murders, drugs, and other horrific crimes and incidents in the inner cities here. We cannot be Mother Theresa to the world.
12
There's Hogar Infantil, children's hearth, in Chipis, Mexico. Perhaps they could take a few of the most desperate kids in.You can help by sending money to Hogar INfantil, PO Box 049, Salem, Oregon 97303-0031. I have been with this fine organization for over 40 years and have visited there. Maybe they could help to some degree. They keep the number of kids they take in low so as to maintain a more family like setting. People from all over the world donate. Some of those kids are now teachers and engineers. It is not connected to any one religion.
4
Sorry, that's Chipas, Mexico.
Limousine Liberals have endless compassion and bountiful public funds for immigrants, refugees, and illegal aliens, yet none for our own children, elderly, and low skilled citizens, who they cheerfully throw on the trash heap for not being the correct kind of poster child.
Charity starts at home as anyone with a heart should know.
Charity starts at home as anyone with a heart should know.
38
These are Liberal lies.
Think...would these people choose to take a very costly trip & travel extreme distances in extremely dangerous countries with drug cartels etc to get to the US or simply move to a safe part of Honduras??
They clearly traveled to the US for the economic opportunity, but if they say this they will be deported and get no sympathy so the Liberals lie and say it is because of dangerous conditions.
Think...would these people choose to take a very costly trip & travel extreme distances in extremely dangerous countries with drug cartels etc to get to the US or simply move to a safe part of Honduras??
They clearly traveled to the US for the economic opportunity, but if they say this they will be deported and get no sympathy so the Liberals lie and say it is because of dangerous conditions.
13
So kids from Honduras are dying. And the Honduran government won't, or can't protect them.
Yes, it is only humanitarian to help them. We should.
But for every one child that reaches the US border, there are 99 more in Honduras still being abused. Still in danger.
We owe it to them to help them as well.
We should send the US Marines to take over Honduras, run it as a colony, and save ALL the children.
Not our problem, you will say. Well, if you say so...
Yes, it is only humanitarian to help them. We should.
But for every one child that reaches the US border, there are 99 more in Honduras still being abused. Still in danger.
We owe it to them to help them as well.
We should send the US Marines to take over Honduras, run it as a colony, and save ALL the children.
Not our problem, you will say. Well, if you say so...
6
On the orders of Ronald "the Great Exterminator" Reagan, the U.S. government helped launch the greatest genocide to occur in the Western Hemisphere during the 20th century: The murders of an estimated 200,000 Mayan Indians under the genocidal dictator of Guatemala Efraín Ríos Montt. In fact, when one was the dictator's henchman was accused of murdering Mike DeVine, a U.S. Vietnam vet and adoption father of two Guatemalan orphans, the U.S. government backed the accused because he was also a CIA agent.
The U.S. government also protected and supported the people who raped and murdered nuns in El Salvador and who murdered Archbishop Oscar Romero and supported the long murderous Somoza dictatorship in Nicaragua, and we recently helped overthrow the government of Honduras in order to install a pro-U.S. puppet.
In fact, no one has deported more people from the U.S. than Barack Obama. George W. Bush was a slacker in this regard.
So why, Mr. Kristof, would anyone care about killing Central American children?
The U.S. government also protected and supported the people who raped and murdered nuns in El Salvador and who murdered Archbishop Oscar Romero and supported the long murderous Somoza dictatorship in Nicaragua, and we recently helped overthrow the government of Honduras in order to install a pro-U.S. puppet.
In fact, no one has deported more people from the U.S. than Barack Obama. George W. Bush was a slacker in this regard.
So why, Mr. Kristof, would anyone care about killing Central American children?
4
There are many children here in America who:
Are homeless
Hungry
Living in squalor
In foster care.....
Personally, I'm more concerned with helping them.
And I'm flat our sick of hearing you talk about how we should spend our energies and treasure on children from other countries. Not interested in doing this AT ALL.
Are homeless
Hungry
Living in squalor
In foster care.....
Personally, I'm more concerned with helping them.
And I'm flat our sick of hearing you talk about how we should spend our energies and treasure on children from other countries. Not interested in doing this AT ALL.
34
If you're interested in helping children here, tell us what you have done. How does one make a choice who should live and who should die? I, for one, am not God, I cannot make a choice, so I say we try to help them all...why not.
1
Maybe Kristof should get out of his ivory tower and go down there to help. There are some 7 billion people in the world. Let's say half are poor and deserve better (a low estimate). I guess Kristoff would bring them all here.
Sad to say, but these people are going to have to stay home and fight to improve their lot in life.
Sad to say, but these people are going to have to stay home and fight to improve their lot in life.
25
Nicholas Kristof goes "down there to help" more than any other journalist I can think of.
2
US foreign policy since the early 1950s has disrupted countries and societies throughout the world. It has created chaos.
Our War on Drugs has created chaos in Mexico, Columbia, Central America and here at home.
Our War on Drugs has created chaos in Mexico, Columbia, Central America and here at home.
5
Tragic and heart wrenching all the way around but one thing keeps coming to mind: why does Elena's mother choose to have so many children under these conditions?
18
Without access to birth control, a woman doesn't 'choose' to have children. It simply happens.
3
Nick,
As always you have penned a story that is truly heartbreaking and one that needs to be addressed.
I suggest you open your home, there are thousands of children in search of a stable environment. I assume the Kristof home can accommodate their many needs both emotionally and financially.
Sell all your assets, donate them to a worthy cause aiding said children. Ask your children to do the same as they are products of America, thus "White Privileged" being the offspring of a white NYT journalist.
Please don't give up your job though...we need high income earners to pay the hefty tax bills required to sustain the 2 Billion immigrants you so fervently want.
As always you have penned a story that is truly heartbreaking and one that needs to be addressed.
I suggest you open your home, there are thousands of children in search of a stable environment. I assume the Kristof home can accommodate their many needs both emotionally and financially.
Sell all your assets, donate them to a worthy cause aiding said children. Ask your children to do the same as they are products of America, thus "White Privileged" being the offspring of a white NYT journalist.
Please don't give up your job though...we need high income earners to pay the hefty tax bills required to sustain the 2 Billion immigrants you so fervently want.
42
They are economic migrants, fleeing their own chaotic societies. Once they cross an international border, they are bound to ask for asylum, if that is their reason for leaving. They can't climb up on the roof of a freight car and ride 1,000 miles to the U.S. border, ford the Rio Grande, and then ask for asylum. If we are so concerned about the influx, we ought to organize some international efforts to alleviate the conditions they are fleeing, if they can't do it themselves. This is a worldwide problem all the developed countries will have to increasingly face as they look to the south. Even the narrow seas around Japan won't isolate that country from the flood indefinitely.
15
Do you want to be right or do you want to be effective and sensible. Of course everyone wants both, but life teaches you usually have to choose. Apparently Kristof is still learning this lesson. So another sad and heartbreaking example is given here.
As a nation we don't have the resources to provide food, shelter, adequate education & medical care, jobs and a secure retirement to our existing citizens. How do we realistically provide these to everyone who might need to flee a bad situation in another country. Or who simply wants to come here for any reason.
We have to do what we can but we also have to be able to afford it. This will require limiting those allowed to come or stay. Just the hard reality. Maybe letting children in or allowing them to stay should be our priority, but it will still require vetting, discretion and a cap on how many.
A magic wand doesn't exist unfortunately and some of our leaders have to be mature enough to state this and enact realistic immigration and asylum policies, and whatever these policies are they won't help everyone or fix the world's problems unfortunately.
As a nation we don't have the resources to provide food, shelter, adequate education & medical care, jobs and a secure retirement to our existing citizens. How do we realistically provide these to everyone who might need to flee a bad situation in another country. Or who simply wants to come here for any reason.
We have to do what we can but we also have to be able to afford it. This will require limiting those allowed to come or stay. Just the hard reality. Maybe letting children in or allowing them to stay should be our priority, but it will still require vetting, discretion and a cap on how many.
A magic wand doesn't exist unfortunately and some of our leaders have to be mature enough to state this and enact realistic immigration and asylum policies, and whatever these policies are they won't help everyone or fix the world's problems unfortunately.
10
One of the best things about the USA is that we are not chock-a-bloc with people. We have virtually solved the problem of a baby a year which helps keep
it that way. Having wide open spaces is so inspirational. Taking in the world's
hungry and overpopulated will soon put an end to our breathing room. The thought that the world will add billions in the next few years is really frighting.
We need to be choosy about who we let into our country.
The more people there are makes life cheap. The gorillas, rhinos etc, get much more attention than the worlds poor and persecuted because they are becoming scarce and are loosing habitat,
The plight of the worlds poor children is so sad, but by adding them here
we will become like them eventually, All of the other articles here are so true that drugs and ,bad governments (whatever the causes) are problems as well. We have lived for many years in developing countries and we know that there isn't room for all of their overly populated, poverty ridden populations in the USA,.
it that way. Having wide open spaces is so inspirational. Taking in the world's
hungry and overpopulated will soon put an end to our breathing room. The thought that the world will add billions in the next few years is really frighting.
We need to be choosy about who we let into our country.
The more people there are makes life cheap. The gorillas, rhinos etc, get much more attention than the worlds poor and persecuted because they are becoming scarce and are loosing habitat,
The plight of the worlds poor children is so sad, but by adding them here
we will become like them eventually, All of the other articles here are so true that drugs and ,bad governments (whatever the causes) are problems as well. We have lived for many years in developing countries and we know that there isn't room for all of their overly populated, poverty ridden populations in the USA,.
6
"I’m not arguing that the U.S. should open its doors wide to all Central Americans"--but you are not suggesting any practical limits, either--and your logic of of allowing people to come here if their homelands are dangerous would apply to much of Africa, the Middle East, Asia and South America, too--when we are not doing enough to help tens of millions of poor Americans.
This Ivory Tower thinking has fueled the rise of Trump.
Let's make Chicago, Camden and Baltimore safe and tens of millions of poor American stable before opening the floodgates.
America has learned the hard way not to be the "world's policeman" while our impoverished suffer--being the world's homeless shelter has different, but very substantial perils.
This Ivory Tower thinking has fueled the rise of Trump.
Let's make Chicago, Camden and Baltimore safe and tens of millions of poor American stable before opening the floodgates.
America has learned the hard way not to be the "world's policeman" while our impoverished suffer--being the world's homeless shelter has different, but very substantial perils.
11
Every single person advocating inviting these people here should be forced to personally pay for at least fifty of them. There is no reason why the people in question cannot go live in another Latino nation. There's certainly no reason why we need to be swamped with yet more people from Honduras -- a nation with one of the world's highest birth rates!
13
Sometimes you (Nicholas Kristof) offer concrete ways readers can become involved in working to change some really bad situation you write about. Besides communicating to our Senators the results of current policy.....do you have suggestions for us, your readers, who are very dismayed and angry about sending children back to such dangerous, life threatening situations? Many of us are not likely to be able to be of any help "on the front lines"...going to Mexico or Central America., not in positions of governmental power. But we can write, speak, march....do you have specific suggestions from your contacts?
2
I know. Kids are at risk for many things all over the world. However, US can not let every kid and for that matter all adults at danger population in. US can not give a message that once you make it to our border - we will take care of you either. There are enough poor kids inside US who need to be supported.
The answer is try to adjust situations in many parts of the world through appropriate application of US foreign policy realizing that not every thing can be controlled by US.
The answer is try to adjust situations in many parts of the world through appropriate application of US foreign policy realizing that not every thing can be controlled by US.
11
The US will soon be a majority minority country. Mr. Kristoff's bleeding heart has no apparent limitations. There are plenty of American kids who have been raped and forgotten. They deserve all our attention.
10
How can we help???
Nicholas I think you are simplifying the issue through emotional issues. México has progressed greatly in the past 20 years and there is simply no place for these people in Southern MX - a basically poor land. I am a 12 year permanent resident of México and it has been a great relief here the push to seal the southern border. In 2007 about 500 Central Americans passed through the Casas del Migrante in San Luis Potosí every day - endangering neighborhoods, encouraging exploitation and crime. These poor small countries need to fix their own situation, with the assistance of other countries. They need to stop having children - here in MX birth rates are now on a par with USA, birth control is free as is health care and University for the qualified. The USA is not responsible for the world. These desperate situations exist in Philadelphia also. Sure its sad but so is life.
12
The Central American gangs are here in the US. Most of them even began here. How does it make sense to say that a Central American teenager cannot escape a gang by crossing their own country or going to Mexico, where those gangs generally do not exist, but instead that they must come to the US? No doubt Central America can be an awful place, but these claims must be treated with skepticism. Having said that, they are not as laughable as domestic violence claims for refugee status (since an abuser can be escaped by leaving town, one need not leave an entire country) and claims for refugee status based on being gay (much of Latin America has legal gay marriage now, including Mexico City -- this is not 1950).
7
How do we know that many of these teenagers are not gang members themselves, especially physically mature young men who say they are below 18, but whose age cannot be verified? What could they do to naive American middle- or high-schoolers? Rape, torture, and murder are all possibilities.
11
Maybe the Pope will get the collective Catholic head out of the sand and start getting hip to birth control someday. Because, though for many it is not a popular thing to realize or think about, most of these children were doomed before they were even conceived. And so were many of their parents. Life is tough.
13
There is no reason the people in question cannot go to another Latino majority nation. We are not responsible for providing for the excess population of Central America. I'm tired of sanctimonious, upper class liberals like Kristof who argue in favor of flooding lower class American communities with yet more unskilled Latinos to push wages down even further and taxes up even higher.
12
On a gut level, there is something wrong with turning away terrified children, many of whom having been through hell, with some support, the majority would grow into hard-working tax payers. Yes, we need to take care of our own poor children but these gangs are brutal and we can do better. As a fan of Obama, I expect better from a father with two daughters.
3
I, like many others, was not aware of this. Thank you so much.
3
Heartbreaking stories.
But US immigration policy should not revolve around the best interests of the immigrant or of other countries. Our policy should be based on our best interests.
But US immigration policy should not revolve around the best interests of the immigrant or of other countries. Our policy should be based on our best interests.
17
Yes, it's about priorities.
Unfortunately our great American leaders chose to throw $1 trillion down the drain of Iraq over the last decade when we could have done so much better with it.
We, as a nation, need to have a really substantial dialogue about our priorities, and then plan according to them.
Instead we react. We react to Al Qaeda. We react to Putin. We react to China. We react to ISIS...
Unfortunately our great American leaders chose to throw $1 trillion down the drain of Iraq over the last decade when we could have done so much better with it.
We, as a nation, need to have a really substantial dialogue about our priorities, and then plan according to them.
Instead we react. We react to Al Qaeda. We react to Putin. We react to China. We react to ISIS...
Terror, rape, extortion, murder, the m.o. of another criminal cult ISIL although without the bogus religionist trappings. As this country continues to support and prosecute its ME interventions, it would seem our military might be better utilized closer to home helping our neighbors stamp out these outlaw Central American thugs. We haven't a very proud history of previous intervention in this region, not to speak of the largely futile War on Drugs, but mightn't a tightly focused assistance and training force be assembled which could help quell the seemingly lawless atmosphere. Much like the Syrian refugees, people can not remain somewhere living in fear and suffering brutal violence.
2
If Honduras and El Salvador are in such bad shape, why don't you call the leaders of those nations to task?
17
We seem to have lost our compassion for others. We do not actively care for one another. We are a nation of self-centered, mean people.
This is a formula for disaster.
We can allow children and their families who are fleeing gang violence to enter our country and simultaneously create job training programs for all our poor people. We need a concerted effort to accomplish this, but it is evident that not many people are supportive of this. God help us!!!
This is a formula for disaster.
We can allow children and their families who are fleeing gang violence to enter our country and simultaneously create job training programs for all our poor people. We need a concerted effort to accomplish this, but it is evident that not many people are supportive of this. God help us!!!
5
No we are not!
There are forces of evil in the world that are gaining strength all by themselves. That such evil is seeping into our country and installing fear in a society that has traditionally been open minded and welcoming is the saddest case of all.
We are not bad people. We are not heartless. On the contrary.
Our supposed political leaders have no backbones, and they fail to address this situation responsibly.
That does not make us the bad ones!
There are forces of evil in the world that are gaining strength all by themselves. That such evil is seeping into our country and installing fear in a society that has traditionally been open minded and welcoming is the saddest case of all.
We are not bad people. We are not heartless. On the contrary.
Our supposed political leaders have no backbones, and they fail to address this situation responsibly.
That does not make us the bad ones!
The sad plight of the oppressed from Honduras, El Salvador, India, Guatemala, China, Syria, Columbia, Iraq, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Mexico, Kurdistan, Libya, and dozens or hundreds of other lands is, as Mr Kristof points out, distressing, but that does not alter the fact that everyone else can't live here.
We already have one of the most, if not the most, liberal and welcoming immigration policies in the world. Perhaps we need to focus more on helping marginally effective governments arrest and jail the gangs and the corrupt officials who ignore them, than by further eroding our faltering economy (excepting the rich, of course) by taking in every refugee who has a sad tale to tell.
We already have one of the most, if not the most, liberal and welcoming immigration policies in the world. Perhaps we need to focus more on helping marginally effective governments arrest and jail the gangs and the corrupt officials who ignore them, than by further eroding our faltering economy (excepting the rich, of course) by taking in every refugee who has a sad tale to tell.
14
Only ONE solution is workable: raise international solidarity in forcing, through trade and economic policies first, Central American governments to represent the rights of their own law-abiding citizens--who must be encouraged to rebuild their own countries and governments to serve their own needs. The remittance activities of successful refugees prove their unbroken ties to homelands in Central America and are evidence of the need for US action in helping these people to eradicate the criminal gangs that draw power from drug trafficking. We should begin to make all drugs legal in the US, to import and to buy, to break the back of exorbitant profit-making from that trade. Restrictions and sanctions can be attached to usage, much as we do with alcohol consumption. We commit a deep immorality when we continue to accept refugees from these nations who are fleeing drug-related violence, without doing all we can to end the violence.
4
You don't deport children. That should be clear without any question. It's hard enough that children have to take the way of emigration to come to a safe country where they are not threatened with the loss of their life.
Do USAmericans have any feeling what it means for a child to be ripped from its home or, much worse, from its parents? As I'm informed many children are coming completely on their own.
Do USAmericans have any feeling what it means for a child to be ripped from its home or, much worse, from its parents? As I'm informed many children are coming completely on their own.
8
"...Central Americans had a refuge in southern Mexico."
It seems that more and people around the world are being denied refuge when their lives are at risk from torture, enslavement, starvation and death by humans, let alone climate disruption. Of course, these are mostly the people with the least amount of control over their lives.
Are we witnessing a 21st century version of a holocaust? World peace will not be possible while this continues at such a massive scale.
It seems that more and people around the world are being denied refuge when their lives are at risk from torture, enslavement, starvation and death by humans, let alone climate disruption. Of course, these are mostly the people with the least amount of control over their lives.
Are we witnessing a 21st century version of a holocaust? World peace will not be possible while this continues at such a massive scale.
2
To Mr. Kristof: What can we do to help prevent this situation and/or to ameliorate it? I assume that we can put pressure on our representatives and write to President Obama to register our views. But are there other steps that we citizens can and should be taking? Thank you for your columns and for any thoughts you have on my questions (and thank you to you and Sheryl WuDunn for _Half the Sky_, one of the most important books in the canon of feminist publications).
1
We have an Organization of American States, which in order to fulfill its obligations under the United Nations charter, has 8 purposes. One (e) is to address crises like the anarchy driving refugees out of Honduras, other Central American countries, and Mexico to violate U.S. immigration laws. But neither Presidents Bush nor Obama have dared risk enforcing American border security with either Canada or Mexico.
Both Presidents feared political retaliation of religious lobbies (Roman Catholic principally), farm migrant labor groups, and governments. The situation driving families like Elena's here requires the same U.S.-led O.A.S. military intervention to restore law and order to Honduras.
There is every reason for the O.A.S., invoking it's pupose to solve American states' "political, juridical, and economic problems that may arise among them." to end the refugee crisis in the Americas.
Opening our borders to all the Elenas, Guilermos, Emilio's, and Alexes is how our border security broke down decades ago, so that we now also have non-Hemispheric visa violators exploiting our border loopholes using children or securing residency here through anchor babies. Elenas' story is a very, very sad one. And there are over 100 million of them who will have heart-wrenching fates but for a permanent residence in the United States. We need to help them help themselves live securely in their countries, not bring their problems here.
Both Presidents feared political retaliation of religious lobbies (Roman Catholic principally), farm migrant labor groups, and governments. The situation driving families like Elena's here requires the same U.S.-led O.A.S. military intervention to restore law and order to Honduras.
There is every reason for the O.A.S., invoking it's pupose to solve American states' "political, juridical, and economic problems that may arise among them." to end the refugee crisis in the Americas.
Opening our borders to all the Elenas, Guilermos, Emilio's, and Alexes is how our border security broke down decades ago, so that we now also have non-Hemispheric visa violators exploiting our border loopholes using children or securing residency here through anchor babies. Elenas' story is a very, very sad one. And there are over 100 million of them who will have heart-wrenching fates but for a permanent residence in the United States. We need to help them help themselves live securely in their countries, not bring their problems here.
6
It's difficult to write through tears. All that crosses my mind is "how can I help end this senseless policy?" My Congressman is a Republican; useless on human rights. I can't imagine that President Obama realized what he was allowing to happen when he and Mexico adopted the deportation plan. America is a big country. Although we cannot reasonably allow open access to our country, surely we can do better. With strict admission standards to weed out these killing gangs, certainly we should be able to protect these children from the horrors ... and not all of them death. What can we do? We cannot allow this nightmare to go on.
2
Thank you for this tragic but illuminating picture of our US role in the immigration crisis. Policies of both compassion and political common sense are not working here, and will only deteriorate further if we vote into office the demagogues and those with little ability to see the results of oppressive regimes that counter all of what democracy has achieved..
Turning away into denial and fantasy-escapes has become "The American Way", immortalized in the comment by a former president after 911, "Go Shopping," We need a global wake up, but especially in America.
Turning away into denial and fantasy-escapes has become "The American Way", immortalized in the comment by a former president after 911, "Go Shopping," We need a global wake up, but especially in America.
So millions dying from the U.S. banning DDT to stop malaria and
....gang members in Chicago and New York with illegal guns means this individual is special?
Your position is everyone should kowtow to U.S. gang members or get killed?
Sounds particularly myopic and ego-centric.
How about we actually "solve" the problem rather than paper it over with "feel good" behaviors?
....gang members in Chicago and New York with illegal guns means this individual is special?
Your position is everyone should kowtow to U.S. gang members or get killed?
Sounds particularly myopic and ego-centric.
How about we actually "solve" the problem rather than paper it over with "feel good" behaviors?
1
It is very sad to read about these young children. This is something that is happening in so many countries. Unfortunately. I think it is very hypocritical of the U.S. and also of Mexico to play these dirty games with such vulnerable people.
1
the roots of this tragedy go back the the Reagan madness in Central America, but Dems have been complicit. Indeed, the present disaster in Guatemala, and our current attitude toward child refugees, emerged during Clinton's stint as Secretary of State. Now, I believe that I can reasonably claim that anyone who supported Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders, especially if they were participating in the widespread promulgation of disinformation in the media about his policies, is also complicit in this situation and bears a share of responsibility going forward. Of course, I am alluding to the NYT, and to you, Mr. Kristof. If the shoe fits....
2
Shouldn't we also be helping the government rid itself of the gangs?
5
This situation is unconscionable. But how can we possibly have sane laws and policies on this subject when so many are swayed by ignorant fear-mongering?
This is truly a horrendous story, especially in view of the fact that more illegal immigrants these days enter the U. S. with Visas, and they just fail to leave. And then wealthy immigrants can come and remain on special Visas--if they have enough money to invest. And their wives can give birth to U. S. citizens.
Meanwhile, those who take significant risks, pay smugglers when they can only afford to send their children, and they hope and pray. Meanwhile, the usual cast of demagogues hides their racism by calling for the poor and the terrified to be sent back, while the same demagogues are happy to use the wealthy elite's cash for cheap investment capital.
What IS wrong with this picture?
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
Meanwhile, those who take significant risks, pay smugglers when they can only afford to send their children, and they hope and pray. Meanwhile, the usual cast of demagogues hides their racism by calling for the poor and the terrified to be sent back, while the same demagogues are happy to use the wealthy elite's cash for cheap investment capital.
What IS wrong with this picture?
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
3
How can I pist this to Facebook? What is the address for President Obama? We must all beg him to hear this. Thank you Mr. Kristof.
We, the people of the United States of America, seem to have forgotten the words we had carved on the Statue of Liberty. You know the ones about. "Give me your tired, your poor, your restless masses yearning to breathe free...." Today, we are turnng back children--children, for heaven's sake--who are fleeing for their lives. I'm too nauseated to say anything more.
3
What can we do?
1
Let's just keep ignoring the population growth that drives the declining value of human lives.
12
Nicholas Kristof is quite right, the Obama administration's policy, colluding with Mexico to send these vulnerable people back to their homelands, is "plainly immoral."
Donald Trump has accused President Obama of being "weak." Of course that's not at all true, in the way Trump means it. But Obama does indeed seem weak, when it comes to his inability to stand up to the unjust demands of the GOP, and the fearful, tribalist, racist, Anglo-America-first, anti-immigrant, anti-life elements in the GOP base.
Donald Trump has accused President Obama of being "weak." Of course that's not at all true, in the way Trump means it. But Obama does indeed seem weak, when it comes to his inability to stand up to the unjust demands of the GOP, and the fearful, tribalist, racist, Anglo-America-first, anti-immigrant, anti-life elements in the GOP base.
1
Hi Nicholas,
I really enjoy reading your op-eds and appreciate the topics you cover. I think it would be great, if you could include any information at the end of the articles about how we as citizens can help with the problems/crises that you write about. Which organizations may need volunteers/funding? Or if it is simply that we just write our congressmen/women or the president. I always feel helpless after reading stories like the one about Elena and would love to do whatever I can. Thanks for bringing us these stories!
I really enjoy reading your op-eds and appreciate the topics you cover. I think it would be great, if you could include any information at the end of the articles about how we as citizens can help with the problems/crises that you write about. Which organizations may need volunteers/funding? Or if it is simply that we just write our congressmen/women or the president. I always feel helpless after reading stories like the one about Elena and would love to do whatever I can. Thanks for bringing us these stories!
3
Thank you Mr Kristof. You are the conscience of our governments wrongheaded policy of dealing with those fleeing from Mexico and Central America. The hysterical rantings of the right and of course Trump infuriates me however my single vote won't guarantee any change in government policy. I have not heard Clinton speak about this issue but perhaps she is trying to curry favor with those center-right for their support. These are the folks who's compassion runs no deeper than self-protecting their assets.
2
Many thanks for shining a light on a situation about which, I suspect, most were unaware. Any decent person's heart goes out to human beings caught up in this maelstrom, making all the more intolerable the thoughtless, ignorant invective of a certain Republican political candidate whose running mate claims to be a Christian! But I wander off track. Clearly there is also a domestic problem in El Salvador and Guatemala. Is this related to drug trafficking, or simply anarchy and chaos reflecting economic desperation? Are we complicit in this chain? More, please, when you can on El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras et al. Thanks in advance.
4
powerfull stuff Mr. Kristoff. My wife is Catholic and I know the Church is active in thesr regions. I will write my Senator and Ptesident Obama to urge them to alter this policy. Thank you.
2
If we do not take these people in, we are all, everyone of us, complicit in their fates. I am tired of hearing those who have benefitted from immigration, that's all of us, complain about accepting refugees from violence. We are a huge country, to which anyone who has looked down from 38,000 feet can attest. We have room for farmers, for manual laborers, for those who want to build cities out of our unused lands. What a waste to have doctors and lawyers from other countries driving taxis or washing dishes. We waste human talent as though we are throwing out leftovers. This country was built on the backs of refugees, and it will continue to be built by those who have chosen to come here. We all benefit from their talent and enthusiasm. Instead of building walls, we should be thanking them for wanting to be part of this great experiment which is America. Legal, illegal, it does not matter, they bring a zeal that only those who choose can bring. Stop carping and start fighting for these precious lives, be the people the world believes us to be.
5
Mr. Kristof,
Even as Elena's story tugs my heart, I ponder - for every fortunate child that we rescue, how many do we leave behind in peril ?
Asylum and immigration only provide us some comfort that we did something about it. But truly solving the problem begins with first accepting this reality.
Even as Elena's story tugs my heart, I ponder - for every fortunate child that we rescue, how many do we leave behind in peril ?
Asylum and immigration only provide us some comfort that we did something about it. But truly solving the problem begins with first accepting this reality.
3
Heart breaking - and I have no real answer. That is what is really the shame.
1
There is a common thread in many responses that say its not practical to help these people, it costs too much, takes away resources from legal citizens, etc. These comments ignore the elephant in the room, that we are spending $600 billion or more annually on a bloated defense establishment that should for a variety of reasons,moral and purely economic, be re-directed to rebuilding infrastructure and providing education and opportunity within in our own borders. A fraction of this obscene and profligate misdirection of wealth could help manage the influx of refugees and deal with their issues more systematically and humanely. This wouldn't include building a wallor further militarizing our southern border.
5
First and foremost, we need to stop the "war on drugs" that fuels the criminal gangs that are overrunning our neighbors to the south. It's price is overwhelming both our country and all of theirs. Our prisons are full, at a great price to both lives and the economy. It is a direct corollary to the increased militarization of our police forces and we can see who has borne the brunt of that action. Farmers in Mexico, Central America and South America who want to raise food stuffs are forced out of their homes and lands or forced to cooperate in the growth of drug plants. It won't solve all our problems or theirs, but we have to start somewhere. And we must have the wisdom and compassion to understand how we contribute to the problem. As the old '60's expression goes, "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."
3
What Obama could have done differently would have been complicated by Congress (to put it euphemistically). The problem is clear -- and heart-wrenching -- but the solutions are less evident. Compassion is a good starting point -- but it has to inform policy: saner immigration laws in the U.S. and efforts to ensure the rule of law more widely in Central America.
And, to go back further...where did the gangs in Central America come from? From right here in the USA, when we deported refugees after Civil wars in their countries "ended", having taught them about the Gang Life here. Now they have profitable contacts here, and make money through smuggling, people and contraband.
1
According to your numbers concerning children returned during 5 years, 8,000 Central American children were returned each year, on the average. You do not tell us how many were not returned. You might better provide such information in a table and then you would also see that basic information is missing. Given your story about Elena I assume you are referring to unaccompanied minors, but if that is true you should make that clear.
In the first 9 months of 2015, Sweden took in 14 394 unaccompanied minors who are treated as asylum seekers each of whose case must be reviewed. Thus they are here in Sweden in 2016.
You would have to have someone gather better data if you wanted to use international comparisons to strengthen your argument. But I suspect you will agree that if a country soon to have 10,000,000 people in it could take in that many under 18s in one year that America with a population of 325,000,000 could do better.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
In the first 9 months of 2015, Sweden took in 14 394 unaccompanied minors who are treated as asylum seekers each of whose case must be reviewed. Thus they are here in Sweden in 2016.
You would have to have someone gather better data if you wanted to use international comparisons to strengthen your argument. But I suspect you will agree that if a country soon to have 10,000,000 people in it could take in that many under 18s in one year that America with a population of 325,000,000 could do better.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
2
Our country must do what is right for us, not what is right for Swedes.
2
We are a cancer upon each other and the planet.
What is there to say? What can I do?
This is not only immoral, it is unacceptable, and as President Obama himself liked to say about such despicable politics, "this is not who we are!"
Adding mortality to the list of horrors these children face will not soften the hearts of those who do not view them as human beings in the first place.
1
Who is working in our country to stop this? Please give us some names of places and/or people we can contact to help influence policies like this. It's painfully ironic that we would worry about children "endangering their lives" by traveling north when these sorts of impossible situations is what they are fleeing. We can not claim our country to be a "land of the free and brave" if we cannot support and integrate such immigrants as our predecessors did.
I am deeply grateful for the columns you write and for the work you are doing for girls and women all over the world. How do we get Obama's attention about this? He has to know the consequences of these policies. I just don't understand....
1
Shocking yet predictable. The truth is shocking, the reality is shocking, yet how we bungled it is predictable. We are better than this. We must do our part to help. Thank you for this column, Mr. Kristof.
1
Since by some logic these children should never been allowed in our country perhaps we are not deporting them. Now we have many of the same issues in our inner cities. Gangs, shootings, killings, nothing in these foreign countries that we don't have in the US.
6
"It’s not that Honduras or El Salvador are tyrannical regimes." Realy. What kind of regimes are they? They allow gangs to massacre their own people without justice, so maybe they're not so bad. But the US is "immoral." It' tough reading your columns with this fuzzy thinking. The best the US can do is to be strong, get stronger, so strong that the the world will listen to us and not scorn us like they do Obama. That is the path to help stop the horror that occurs in underdeveloped countries.
3
I wonder where the "Sydney Schanberg's" of today are, those intrepid reporters willing to risk it all for something bigger than themselves, their paper, or their readers. My guess is the executives and editors of modern-day papers would not tolerate such insolence in search of anything.
Pity. We are poorer for it.
Pity. We are poorer for it.
I do believe Pres. Obama wants to do much better than this, but he has been
stopped by the frenzy of fear stoked by the illogical ideas of Trump & his supporters. This horror you have been writing about is in addition to the Republican majority in Congress who will vote down anything Pres. Obama has tried to do...ever since he was elected. These racists were "the birthers" since they would not believe Americans elected "a black man".!!! They have been bound & determined to not let 'IT' happen again. So, many innocents have to be victims of the greedy capitalists.. I feel so very totally helpless. More power to you, however, an honest & hard working investigative reporter! May your work help bring an end to these horrors - and soon!
stopped by the frenzy of fear stoked by the illogical ideas of Trump & his supporters. This horror you have been writing about is in addition to the Republican majority in Congress who will vote down anything Pres. Obama has tried to do...ever since he was elected. These racists were "the birthers" since they would not believe Americans elected "a black man".!!! They have been bound & determined to not let 'IT' happen again. So, many innocents have to be victims of the greedy capitalists.. I feel so very totally helpless. More power to you, however, an honest & hard working investigative reporter! May your work help bring an end to these horrors - and soon!
It's sad that in the second decade of the 21st century, so many countries are still plagued with poverty, violence, and disorder. It seems that working with Mexico to establish safe havens, such as refugee camps, could be a good temporary solution to protect at-risk Central Americans. But to get to the root of the problem and effect long-term change, US law enforcement authorities need to give more assistance to their partners in gang-infested Central American countries to capture, convict, and lock up these thugs who are murdering innocent citizens. At the same time, perhaps the US government and large American companies such as Google could also come up with some new methods for promoting education and more economic development in this poor part of the world.
3
Nicholas
That was my maternal,grandfathers name.
I admire and love your columns, especially this one about deporting families back to their death. What can we do?
We are mid 70s, comfortable in south central Pa, the T, and boy is it ever; but nothing to fear like those families
Thank you Nicholas. BTW, I/ we agree with you about OBama, except for these exportations
That was my maternal,grandfathers name.
I admire and love your columns, especially this one about deporting families back to their death. What can we do?
We are mid 70s, comfortable in south central Pa, the T, and boy is it ever; but nothing to fear like those families
Thank you Nicholas. BTW, I/ we agree with you about OBama, except for these exportations
1
There is no greater privilege than to be able to raise a child in relative safety. It is inconceivable to most of us in America that we could be deprived of the ability to protect our own children from fear and horrific physical harm. It is one thing for America to question its own policies of refuge, but it is unconsciounable for Anerica to support the denial of refuge outside our own borders. I would be loath to know the American who would deny any child protection from harm that is available by any means. I hope that your article reaches an audience that feels the same way.
2
The US has plenty of usable land on heavily-guarded Gauntanamo Bay...why not build a community for refugees there? Even as a temporary measure.
I feel paralyzed. I don't know how to be the change, here, or in myriad other injustices. Is the next step to notify my representatives and senators and thell them that I share your interest and concern in this issue?
Thank you for your compassion and excellent journalism.
Warmly,
Susannah Johnson
Thank you for your compassion and excellent journalism.
Warmly,
Susannah Johnson
If we really seek to do global social engineering, then let''s attack the root cause, overpopulation. Poverty, gangs, and violence thrive wherever population exceed resources.
It wouid also be nice if we first sought to help our own impoverished citizens. Embracing the flood of uneducated, low skill, illegals is a sure way to worsen the lives of our poor, as they compete with illegals at the bottom of the job market.
It wouid also be nice if we first sought to help our own impoverished citizens. Embracing the flood of uneducated, low skill, illegals is a sure way to worsen the lives of our poor, as they compete with illegals at the bottom of the job market.
11
Mr. Kristof writes : " . . .As I’ve written previously, the policy was crafted after the United States was swamped by a surge of Central American refugees in early 2014. Obama spoke with the Mexican president to discuss how to address the flow, and Mexico obligingly imposed a crackdown to stop these refugees long before they could reach the United States. Mexico deports a great majority of them to their home countries . . .."
While sympathetic to the plight of young folks in central America and elsewhere, many citizens of the U.S., including yours truly, nonetheless regret that Obama didn't convince the President of Mexico to impose a crackdown designed to detect, detain and deport "undocumented"Central American refugees regardless age, grade and serial number, not only, but also to detect and restrain citizens of Mexico who are attempting illegal emigration to the U.S., as well as similarly oriented unauthorized non- citizens resident in Mexico , before they reach and illegally cross the border to take up illegal residence in the U.S.A..
While sympathetic to the plight of young folks in central America and elsewhere, many citizens of the U.S., including yours truly, nonetheless regret that Obama didn't convince the President of Mexico to impose a crackdown designed to detect, detain and deport "undocumented"Central American refugees regardless age, grade and serial number, not only, but also to detect and restrain citizens of Mexico who are attempting illegal emigration to the U.S., as well as similarly oriented unauthorized non- citizens resident in Mexico , before they reach and illegally cross the border to take up illegal residence in the U.S.A..
5
Honestly, lets end any pretense here and just annex Honduras and El Salvador. It seems that the vast majority of their population would qualify under these standards. If we are going to accept all of their people, shouldn't we be given free rein to fix these countries the right way, by enforcing law in their country?
Query: if my family is threatened by gangs in the us, whether they be bloods, crips or the mafia, should my family be allowed to emigrate to the country of its choosing? Canada, Switzerland, England?
Query: if my family is threatened by gangs in the us, whether they be bloods, crips or the mafia, should my family be allowed to emigrate to the country of its choosing? Canada, Switzerland, England?
17
Annexing Honduras and El Salvador will fix absolutely nothing. The gangs there exist because geography allows for ideal logistics for moving cocaine from South America to the US. The gangs work for the cartels' couriers and what they do to the population is just part of their effort to keep their ranks replenished (gangsters don't live long.) The gangs will exist as long as there's money to be made pushing drugs from one country to another no matter who claims to be in charge.
We're treating symptoms and not the disease. Those emails, to me, were the voice of evil/hate but also of power. These gangs meet no resistance that they can't murder. Until the gangs are dealt with, we are all victims -- those who flee first of all and those who have to provide aid at increasing costs - and we're left with defensive moves only, forever.
It seems that developing nations of the 20th century are not developing but deconstructing; people are flooding out of these countries and/or there are no stable leaders/powerful citizenry. So who stays to nation build when you can get to the US or Europe? Likewise, who stays when in imminent danger, daily? Perhaps it's time to sequester NATO and provide no release until there is a global plan. Isn't that what leaders do? Otherwise, it's perpetual victim-hood and upheaval, which we submit to by default when we don't stop the problems at the source. The US/Mexico deal isn't a solution, just a reaction, just more defense. Kristof is wielding pathos here, but we need some long term logos too.
It seems that developing nations of the 20th century are not developing but deconstructing; people are flooding out of these countries and/or there are no stable leaders/powerful citizenry. So who stays to nation build when you can get to the US or Europe? Likewise, who stays when in imminent danger, daily? Perhaps it's time to sequester NATO and provide no release until there is a global plan. Isn't that what leaders do? Otherwise, it's perpetual victim-hood and upheaval, which we submit to by default when we don't stop the problems at the source. The US/Mexico deal isn't a solution, just a reaction, just more defense. Kristof is wielding pathos here, but we need some long term logos too.
10
We have self euthanized zombies born here collapsed in the gutters of the richest city in the world. Our political leaders have neither the will nor the financial budgets to help them or the mentally ill who fill our prisons. The Republicans obsess over birth certificates and bathrooms. Central America will need to take care of its own.
10
We cannot solve the problems of the billions in third world countries by bringing their residents here. That will merely turn this country into another third world country. If we are to solve these countries, they will have to reform their own governments and their own cultures. Overpopulation, corruption, exploitation, brutality, religiosity, inadequate education, and a poor work ethic all contribute in varying degrees to third world ills.
Nations can reform themselves -- just look at the Asian tigers, or the rapid progress in China. First world status is only a few generations away, if a nation is serious about reform and avoids failed ideologies like Communism and Islamism. But it has to be done by the nations themselves, otherwise the first world will just become an extension of the third.
Nations can reform themselves -- just look at the Asian tigers, or the rapid progress in China. First world status is only a few generations away, if a nation is serious about reform and avoids failed ideologies like Communism and Islamism. But it has to be done by the nations themselves, otherwise the first world will just become an extension of the third.
28
The US provided a huge amount of assistance to Little Tigers Taiwan and South Korea as part of the Cold War. Those countries did a great job in the area of education, the key to their economic development, but US assistance definitely helped.
1
The US has a long history of destabilizing these central American countries (see Reagan's foreign policies as one recent example). We aided and abetted the current social disorder in these small, poor countries. We owe them much. The least we morally are compiled to do is to protect the vulnerable, innocent victims of misguided US interventionism by either supporting Mexico's past history of offering asylum and by allowing some to settle in the US. At least in this way the safety of living in a law abiding society that was taken from them can be restored to them.
5
We do not the world's Latinos permission to come here, refuse to learn English, take community resources and overbreed. They are not babies who deserve to have their every need catered to by the American working class.
1
An old high school chum called me not long ago. She asked me to help her friend from another country who wanted to stay in the U.S. but had deportation proceedings scheduled.
She told me her friend's tear-jerking story. Only Americans who live in old ramshackle mill towns or encrusted cities and ghettos, like Chicago's south side, might know such criminal assaults and despair. I was convinced.
My friend knew that as a longtime immigration caseworker on Capitol Hill, I was effective in such matters. What she didn't count on is that I would ask basic questions and peel back to the true facts of his case.
What I discovered is that her friend manipulated the system, his paperwork, his story, and her emotions to elicit her precise sympathetic reaction. Poor poor poor fellow.
Trouble is there are many honest, law-abiding poor poor poor fellows and ladies out there. My recommendation: tell him to go home, and stand in line and apply for a visa legally, just like so many others.
Am I heartless? Or can I just cut through the proverbial mustard?
It is true. We need fixes in our immigration system. They must include measures to deter illegal immigrants. We need biting sanctions toward neighboring countries forcing them to thwart their criminal enterprises. We need scrupulous foreign affairs policies, not the existing regime of economic barters at the expense of humanity.
She told me her friend's tear-jerking story. Only Americans who live in old ramshackle mill towns or encrusted cities and ghettos, like Chicago's south side, might know such criminal assaults and despair. I was convinced.
My friend knew that as a longtime immigration caseworker on Capitol Hill, I was effective in such matters. What she didn't count on is that I would ask basic questions and peel back to the true facts of his case.
What I discovered is that her friend manipulated the system, his paperwork, his story, and her emotions to elicit her precise sympathetic reaction. Poor poor poor fellow.
Trouble is there are many honest, law-abiding poor poor poor fellows and ladies out there. My recommendation: tell him to go home, and stand in line and apply for a visa legally, just like so many others.
Am I heartless? Or can I just cut through the proverbial mustard?
It is true. We need fixes in our immigration system. They must include measures to deter illegal immigrants. We need biting sanctions toward neighboring countries forcing them to thwart their criminal enterprises. We need scrupulous foreign affairs policies, not the existing regime of economic barters at the expense of humanity.
23
When your response to "children are dying because of your greed" is "too bad, you should have been lucky enough to be born better off, like me" then yes, you are heartless.
2
Side step the issue Harper? What are we to do after investigation with those who are depicted in this story, not your manipulator. Did you read about the 11 year old girls? How does your thumb on the scales affect them? Apply for a visa? That takes years, certainly longer than it takes for the young girl to give birth to the rapist's baby.
1
Mean-spirited social conservatives elected during the administration of President Obama primed the rise of Trump. The locked down of meanness and rejection of any debate produced discord and blame towards The Other. Republicans used religion and dogma to not take any action to address our serious social and economic problems. Now they are running and hiding from Trump. Where are their voices now. I wonder.
4
The Catholic Church is the elephant in the room here. Its ban on contraception is upheld there by a government whose representatives are overwhelmingly members of Opus Dei.
Denying contraception to poor women in a country with a lackluster economy where people marry young and have a large families is a recipe for disaster.
When there are no jobs and little opportunity criminality and gangs are inevitable. Women are second class citizens and only rich women can find he means to limit their family size.
If we take in these young people with only institutional support to fall back on we will just be importing the problem.
Here in California all the major cities and prisons have Latina gangs, We are now seeing horrible gang murders in the wine country of Northern California because the gangs spread wherever the poor and disenfranchised go to live, work and bear children they can barely support.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the Philippines where the government recently overruled the church's representative, Cardinal Sin, to make contraception available and affordable to all,
These smart and hard working people who have been so successful here should now start thriving in their own country instead of being the remittance capital of the world.
Denying contraception to poor women in a country with a lackluster economy where people marry young and have a large families is a recipe for disaster.
When there are no jobs and little opportunity criminality and gangs are inevitable. Women are second class citizens and only rich women can find he means to limit their family size.
If we take in these young people with only institutional support to fall back on we will just be importing the problem.
Here in California all the major cities and prisons have Latina gangs, We are now seeing horrible gang murders in the wine country of Northern California because the gangs spread wherever the poor and disenfranchised go to live, work and bear children they can barely support.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the Philippines where the government recently overruled the church's representative, Cardinal Sin, to make contraception available and affordable to all,
These smart and hard working people who have been so successful here should now start thriving in their own country instead of being the remittance capital of the world.
20
But it is a win-win for the Catholic Church, who gets more bodies in the pews and money in the coffers, while passing the cost of supporting all these people to the US taxpayers.
Opening our hearts and doors to these young immigrants is clearly right and moral, not to mention beneficial to current citizens by bringing talented and loving people within our borders. But I think Mr. Kristof fails to recognize the role drug prohibition plays in this tragedy. The people he interviews want to remain where they live. In fact, most are thriving economically -- until gangs and violence make life unbearable. Violence is an inevitable result of drug prohibition, which creates a black market not subject to the rule of law and civil society. If drugs constituted a small market, this might be a phenomenon we could live with. But recreational drugs are a mass market product, consumed by more than half of Americans during their lifetimes, according to government surveys, not to mention hundreds of millions elsewhere in the world. The violence from which these good people flee is the sad, inevitable result of our folly. We owe them not just entrance to our country but an apology for damaging their homeland.
8
The people in question are not saints who bear no responsibility for their own lives. Your attempt to reduce them to such deprives them of their humanity.
2
This is one of the most offensive uses of my tax dollars to date - using it to pay off another country to return innocent civilians and children to what amounts to a war zone. This is like Europe paying off Turkey to send Syrian refugees back to the war zone in Syria - fortunately the Europeans have not quite gone that far and just pays Turkey to slow or stop the flow into Europe.
Can you imagine if the current policy had been used last century to pay off European nations to return Jews fleeing the atrocities they were experiencing back to Germany?!
The money used to pay off Mexico should be used instead to help these people rather than turn it into blood money. Are we that callous and stingy? Unfortunately it appears many of us are, given the support an overly wealthy con man has, that is looking to exponentially escalate the reckless and cruel destruction of immigrant families - which includes many American citizens - all to gain votes. Shameful!
Can you imagine if the current policy had been used last century to pay off European nations to return Jews fleeing the atrocities they were experiencing back to Germany?!
The money used to pay off Mexico should be used instead to help these people rather than turn it into blood money. Are we that callous and stingy? Unfortunately it appears many of us are, given the support an overly wealthy con man has, that is looking to exponentially escalate the reckless and cruel destruction of immigrant families - which includes many American citizens - all to gain votes. Shameful!
10
There is a huge difference between what happened in Germany and what is happening in Third World countries. In Germany it was war, institutionalized by the government itself, against anything that wasn't Aryan and against the world. We don't put these people in concentration camps with gas chamber, forced labor or total starvation. If anything it is the opposite, these migrants are forcing themselves in our country by their own volition and by breaking our laws. It is not remotely comparable.
6
Children in many countries - in this hemisphere and others - are not safe, and sometimes subject to horrendous conditions. I am going to skirt the immigration issue - who, under what circumstances, although once here, if they have suffered so much, they should not be returned unless it's to a safe home.
What I do know is that IF we take in young people - children to young adults - who have lived under these conditions, we had better have some sort of all encompassing treatment and education programs ready, because they are - most of them are - going to have many problems. To call them adjustment problems barely touches the surface: the entire culture they have been subject to - that they had to learn to survive - is twisted, based on force, distrust of government, illegal activities to earn income. This s not just a matter of a place to live, school and food.
The other issue is that we won't even provide the best services for children born here and living under severely stressful conditions.
What I do know is that IF we take in young people - children to young adults - who have lived under these conditions, we had better have some sort of all encompassing treatment and education programs ready, because they are - most of them are - going to have many problems. To call them adjustment problems barely touches the surface: the entire culture they have been subject to - that they had to learn to survive - is twisted, based on force, distrust of government, illegal activities to earn income. This s not just a matter of a place to live, school and food.
The other issue is that we won't even provide the best services for children born here and living under severely stressful conditions.
19
Population control is the only answer. World cannot sustain population currently and it will only get much, much worse. Mother Mature has ways of curing itself until man made it possible for humans to overpopulate the world with limited deaths due to war, disease and natural catastrophes.US can only do so much and we are flooded with illegals and refugees from South of the Border witrh very limited skills who will only be a drain on US.
17
As Carlos and several others posting comments here note the United States bears partial responsibility for for the flow of refugees from violence, first by our repression of efforts to overthrow Central American oligarchs and, second, for our unproductive inattention to the drug trade. And President Obama does not get a pass on this. Attentive and doting father of teenage girls, Obama turns his back on the Elenas of Central America. When was the last time we read of major drug busts on the US side of the border, of kingpins taken down, of rolling up supply systems? More than seven years in office and far more interest in chasing would-be dishwashers than interdicting drug traffickers. More interest in overthrowing a democratically-elected government in Honduras than aiding it in dealing with its internal security problems, the very problems fostering the flow of refugees in the first place. No, I am not suggesting President Obama is aiding drug traffickers but he deals with a universe of politicians, lobbyists, influence peddlers, and others with different priorities. He insists on surveillance of millions of Americans but cannot mobilize resources to to deal with the cause of a continuing refugee flood to the US. This does not mean opening doors to an unrestricted flow of refugees but a more aggressive approach to suppressing the drug trade. Instead in this election we get the choice of a supporter of turbulence in Honduras or someone content to blame victims of violence.
4
No American told this woman to have four kids she cannot feed or educate.
4
Having been a Peace Corps volunteer in El Salvador the problem from my perspective is in the sending country of these immigrants is the lack of rule of law and strong government institutions that cannot compete with criminal gangs and their extremely lucrative business practices. When police in the sending country investigate murder on bicycles while criminal gangs drive new trucks the cards are stacked against the local institutions in so many ways. Meanwhile we try to impose trade policies protecting Monsanto's seeds from being exploited by poor rural farmers, not focusing our aid on strengthening the rule of law in countries where criminal organizations act with impunity. Criminal gangs that operate in these countries are transnational and use borders for their own protection, use technology internationally to enforce their local funding through intimidation, and use children as sources for funding and future recruits. What we can do is protect those children who do arrive (limiting a future source of funding and recruits) and legalize the drug trade to knock the feet from under the criminal organizations that have infiltrated high levels of government in Central America and Mexico. New tactics are needed to change the situation where people send their children away from their homes to save their lives. These people are our neighbors and they need policy from us that does not drive their countries further into chaos because their traditional economies can not compete.
17
The most common-sense comment I have read all morning. Thank you!
If the US accept every immigrant from Central and South America that wants to come here, tens of millions of them would be here in little time.
I am not a Trump supporter, (I support Hillary) but we need to have a sensible,
controlled system of immigration. In other words, we cannot accept every person
fleeing or leaving their own country.
I am not a Trump supporter, (I support Hillary) but we need to have a sensible,
controlled system of immigration. In other words, we cannot accept every person
fleeing or leaving their own country.
27
That is correct - we do not have room for every refugee on the planet
2
These are made up stories and have been proven so. Let these people stay in their own countries.
1
Why is immigration such an important issue in this election? Is it concern that the majority of immigrants are uneducated and are willing to pull down the price of labor, and cost us in tax money for health care, education etc.? I've been competing in a global market all my life from elementary school on through 35 years of work so this doesn't seem like a new issue; just one we need to accept and work with. To me, our focus should be on rebuilding a strong economy through globally competetive businesses and local business rather than focusing on immigration. Maybe that happens at the local level with help from state leaders or maybe it comes from the people. In my area I don't see that happening. I see start and stop solutions, struggles between local and state governments, local leaders who try but may not be able to think outside the box or have financial interests that limit new ideas. In our area, people blame immigrants even though there are no immigrants here. So I may be biased ...and possibly not thinking outside the box..but it seems like we need economic solutions rather than blame.
7
Offering asylum to women and small children like those pictured in the photos that illustrate Nicholas Kristof’s article wouldn’t save many lies because Salvadorian homicides are hyper-concentrated among 15- to 29-years-old male drug gang members. El Salvador’s homicide rate spiked to 116 per 100,000 in 2015 because the government ratcheted up its war on MS-13 and Barrio 18, killing hundreds of gang members. The crackdown came just as a truce between the two gangs broke down, resulting in a surge in gang murders. If the object is to save Salvadorian lives, we could offer asylum to MS-13 and Barrio 18 murderers, rapists and extortionist chased across the border by police or rival gangs, but depopulating El Salvador of women and children who don’t belong to gangs isn’t going to help the country.
10
We are importing gang members and would-be gang members, as anyone who lives in a border state knows, but no one who lives in a Liberal elite gated community.
1
The push factors driving these families and unaccompanied minors out of El Salvador and Honduras are gang violence and poverty. The pull factor luring these refugees to make a long overland journey to the US is higher wages that allow them to send money back home. Several neighboring Central American countries such as Belize and Costa Rica offer a safe haven from gangs but manual jobs offer about the same pay as the countries these refugees are fleeing. That is why they head to the US in spite of the fact that the very gangs they purport to flee are embedded in the neighborhoods where the refugees resettle in the US. A July 7 Washington Post story on the brutal stabbing death of a Central American teen by MS-13 gang members noted, "by the time the teenagers get to Montgomery County, they often are isolated, broke, unable to speak English — and prime targets for area MS-13 members." After law enforcement efforts had succeeded in reducing the presence of MS-13, the gang is now growing in tandem with the growth of newly arrived Central Americans seeking asylum as an opportunity to live and work legally in the US. Their journeys here fuel the growh of cartels and gangs by putting money directly into their hands as they control the migrant pipeline north as the second most lucrative source of income after drugs. The UN Hague Convention on Refugees requires asylum seekers to apply in the first safe country they reach. For Salvadorans and Hondurans, it is not the US.
41
Mr. Kristol depicts us as heartless and mean spirited. The treatment and deportation of illegal entrants to this country is neither. One-by-one, the case for each person illegally in the U.S. is presented and heard by an immigration law judge who determines whether to grant a stay of deportation. Asylum is granted to persons showing well founded fear of persecution for any of several statutory reasons.
Legalizing 11 or 16 million who come and stay illegally without question, is an insult to law-abiding immigrants who pursued the privilege of U.S. citizenship legally.
Adding evermore DREAMERS and surges of hundreds of thousands lured by the Obama promise of a "free pass" to U.S. citizenship is untenable and unaffordable.
How demoralizing for Americans who need jobs and for "legal" immigrants! What about their equally sad circumstances?
The U.S. needs regrow a backbone and use its considerable influence to get other nations to clean up their own houses.
If we are too weak to draw any lines, we can always fling open our doors to anyone and everyone who wants to come here permanently. Suppose then we wouldn't need enforcement, nor immigration courts or judges to review cases. Think how much money we could save! Maybe that alternative would convince Mr. Kristol that we have a heart.
Legalizing 11 or 16 million who come and stay illegally without question, is an insult to law-abiding immigrants who pursued the privilege of U.S. citizenship legally.
Adding evermore DREAMERS and surges of hundreds of thousands lured by the Obama promise of a "free pass" to U.S. citizenship is untenable and unaffordable.
How demoralizing for Americans who need jobs and for "legal" immigrants! What about their equally sad circumstances?
The U.S. needs regrow a backbone and use its considerable influence to get other nations to clean up their own houses.
If we are too weak to draw any lines, we can always fling open our doors to anyone and everyone who wants to come here permanently. Suppose then we wouldn't need enforcement, nor immigration courts or judges to review cases. Think how much money we could save! Maybe that alternative would convince Mr. Kristol that we have a heart.
12
Perhaps what I find most troubling with this piece, like the one last week, is the fact that we have plenty of children in dire straits here. We seem incapable of mustering the political will to change that yet Kristof wants to allow tens of thousands more from to enter.
It may be insensitive but we cannot fix the world. We cannot fix Mexico. We care little enough about the poor children here and perhaps that is where change should start. Children in the US die from gang violence every day. Children in the US fall through the cracks of an already inadequate social services system.
Perhaps Nick needs to visit the poor here already. Get some heart tugging pictures of doe eyed children. Hear the stories - not quite as violent but still stories of people trapped just the same. Kristof really does not need to travel the world to find people who are in real need of help. I would suggest a road trip right here in the good ol' US of A.
It may be insensitive but we cannot fix the world. We cannot fix Mexico. We care little enough about the poor children here and perhaps that is where change should start. Children in the US die from gang violence every day. Children in the US fall through the cracks of an already inadequate social services system.
Perhaps Nick needs to visit the poor here already. Get some heart tugging pictures of doe eyed children. Hear the stories - not quite as violent but still stories of people trapped just the same. Kristof really does not need to travel the world to find people who are in real need of help. I would suggest a road trip right here in the good ol' US of A.
40
We should not be returning Central American asylum seekers to the dangerous conditions of their homelands. Instead, send them to Puerto Rico, our own beleaguered piece of the United States where only 3.5 million people are left after massive emigrations to the US mainland by those seeking jobs. PR's first language is Spanish, and the climate is similar to Central America. Plus, there's plenty of land available for farming and, if federal restrictions on shipping are dropped, manufacturing. Let's give both Puerto Rico and Central Americans a second chance.
11
This is so sad but so is the plight of children born into abject poverty here in the United States and struggle with disenfranchisement from the society at large. I am sad for these kids from other countries but I truly believe that we need to fix our house first before we can start cleaning out others. Besides, I never understood who is supposed to take care of them when they get here. How are they supposed to become productive citizens when they are thrown in foster care with little adult support? The logistics go well beyond allowing them into the country.
I will vote for Hillary because of so many other issues but on this one issue I respectfully disagree with many Democrats.
I will vote for Hillary because of so many other issues but on this one issue I respectfully disagree with many Democrats.
12
It's downright depressing how we Latinos view the outcome to our proclivity for voting for Democrat presidential candidates. We voted for Obama expecting that he would have a more humanistic approach to the plight on millions of undocumented immigrants who have sometimes lived in this country for decades. What we got instead was the "deporter in chief". I'm convinced we wouldn't have done as badly had we voted Republican.
Obama had a Democratic congress on his first two years in office. That was the time to push for comprehensive immigration reform. What he did instead was stab us in the back by deporting millions of immigrants while he used the issue to bash Republicans in the head for their intransigence.
Obama had a Democratic congress on his first two years in office. That was the time to push for comprehensive immigration reform. What he did instead was stab us in the back by deporting millions of immigrants while he used the issue to bash Republicans in the head for their intransigence.
1
Obama counts those stopped at our border from entering pour country illegally as deportations. He is not the deporter in chief, just duplicitous.
1
Your siding with people who break our immigration laws just because you share race with them is most of the problems. Latino racism on immigration is half the reason why I don't want yet more Latino here.
2
So are you going to vote for Donald "The Wall" Trump this time around? Good luck with that. Expecting President Obama to satisfy your every wish regarding immigration policy is a little naive. I'm still in awe that he managed to pass the Affordable Care Act.
What should we as individuals do in situations such as Mr. Kristof describes with great clarity and passion? Stop the crime there? Hard to do interventions without causing more breakdown and crime. Allow more children and families entry and support? Much is done already, more seems problematic. Then as noted here in the notes from the criminals, workers here send money back and the gangs get a share of it. If they don't those same gangs have members here or will send hit men to take out offenders.
These individual stories are horrible examples of humanity. But they are also canaries in the mine; the real truth is that these criminal enterprises already span the border of the continent and their enforcement mechanisms do as well. Our spotty ways of dealing with immigration, drugs, gangs and law enforcement is like a leaky gas pipline which at times explodes injuring many others. Some see this as a border security issue; others a humanitarian disaster; it is a melting down of our own culture and a danger to our own way of life. We are not alone on this continent and need to realize that our as go our neighbors, so do we.
These individual stories are horrible examples of humanity. But they are also canaries in the mine; the real truth is that these criminal enterprises already span the border of the continent and their enforcement mechanisms do as well. Our spotty ways of dealing with immigration, drugs, gangs and law enforcement is like a leaky gas pipline which at times explodes injuring many others. Some see this as a border security issue; others a humanitarian disaster; it is a melting down of our own culture and a danger to our own way of life. We are not alone on this continent and need to realize that our as go our neighbors, so do we.
3
In order to meet a hypocrite one need only enter the doors of a church or the halls of Congress. The odds are that, picking any one member of those assembled in these places, you'll have struck...I was going to type "gold" but that just doesn't carry the thought through. "Stepped in" something is probably more apropos.
When one considers how the United States came to be, going back to the Jamestown settlers and the Pilgrims and moving forward through time from there, the current stance, of the Republican philosophy particularly, toward immigrants is hypocrisy of the highest order. All immigration laws passed since the Constitution was adopted were written by men (or the descendants of men) who wrested this continent from its original inhabitants by dint of force: genocide, concentration camps euphemistically called reservations, forced removal across borders to lands claimed by other European, white, powers. That some of the offspring of these Native Americans are now getting a small measure of revenge by separating the white man from his money in their casinos is hardly just compensation for past crimes.
The vast majority of these people demanding the expulsion of peoples whose ancestors walked and worked the soil of North America for thousands of years before the white man knew it existed, the vast majority, Nick, are by their own sights, Christians.
Talk about hypocrisy.
When one considers how the United States came to be, going back to the Jamestown settlers and the Pilgrims and moving forward through time from there, the current stance, of the Republican philosophy particularly, toward immigrants is hypocrisy of the highest order. All immigration laws passed since the Constitution was adopted were written by men (or the descendants of men) who wrested this continent from its original inhabitants by dint of force: genocide, concentration camps euphemistically called reservations, forced removal across borders to lands claimed by other European, white, powers. That some of the offspring of these Native Americans are now getting a small measure of revenge by separating the white man from his money in their casinos is hardly just compensation for past crimes.
The vast majority of these people demanding the expulsion of peoples whose ancestors walked and worked the soil of North America for thousands of years before the white man knew it existed, the vast majority, Nick, are by their own sights, Christians.
Talk about hypocrisy.
6
Perhaps we should all "Get Back " to where we once belonged ..... leaving the country to only the descendants of the native people.
Then Elizabeth Warren can rule the country...
Then Elizabeth Warren can rule the country...
Turn off the boo-hoo machine already and acknowledge that these uninvited people are quite properly unwelcome in the USA. We didn't compel the Central Americans to have so many offspring that they cannot possibly afford to care for adequately. And they are not our lookout. The USA, like all the developed nations, would do well to shut the door as it did during the 1920s when immigration was governed by strictly enforced quota. Then we could digest the tens of millions of people who have already glommed onto the benefits of living in our country. Without an invitation, no less.
25
The source of the problem is inside countries like Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala. Gangs that are out of control, do what they wish, and where the proper authorities, because of indifference and corruption, do absolutely nothing.
To try to control the situation, the US should try to go to the source of the problem, working with the governments of these countries, to fight these gangs, improve security, and protect the victims of the gangs before they have to leave their homes and country. It is a huge problem, but what it's being done now, won't even begin to solve it.
To try to control the situation, the US should try to go to the source of the problem, working with the governments of these countries, to fight these gangs, improve security, and protect the victims of the gangs before they have to leave their homes and country. It is a huge problem, but what it's being done now, won't even begin to solve it.
4
I agree. But it's also important to note that much of the drugs these gangs produce is sold in the USA. So we in the USA need to gain control of that as well or we become complicit.
4
"its also important to note that much of the drugs these gangs produce is sold in the USA."
When you make something illegal that people want to buy, the price often rises to a level where it is profitable to produce by criminals and as a side effect money gets pumped into organized crime.
I believe legal, free market industries follow regulations, have quality production facilities and technical staff, while at the same time offering much lower prices and generating tax revenue.
One worthy example of this is prohibition since with was turned and and then off again showing before and after conditions for both legalization to prohibition, an prohibition to legalization.
When you make something illegal that people want to buy, the price often rises to a level where it is profitable to produce by criminals and as a side effect money gets pumped into organized crime.
I believe legal, free market industries follow regulations, have quality production facilities and technical staff, while at the same time offering much lower prices and generating tax revenue.
One worthy example of this is prohibition since with was turned and and then off again showing before and after conditions for both legalization to prohibition, an prohibition to legalization.
1
To eliminate the drugs you must eliminate the source....the US is not the source.
1
Mr. Kristof, a genuinely decent human being, deserves a better audience than we Americans.
The vast majority of us are selfish, greedy and indifferent to most other people, even children, and frightened of the rest. We find excuses for our callousness under every bed and in every closet.
"Bottom line," American culture values profits and enjoy violence more than anything else.
At most amoral, we Americans are not particularly nice. If a "Judgment Day" ever arrives, we will be fortunate to reside above the Fourth Circle.
The vast majority of us are selfish, greedy and indifferent to most other people, even children, and frightened of the rest. We find excuses for our callousness under every bed and in every closet.
"Bottom line," American culture values profits and enjoy violence more than anything else.
At most amoral, we Americans are not particularly nice. If a "Judgment Day" ever arrives, we will be fortunate to reside above the Fourth Circle.
10
We're truly awful people. Clearly, we're not worthy of having any unskilled Latinos here. They should stay home where they won't have to do with us awful Americans.
1
Legalize all drugs and the Mexican gangs will lose thei funding sources and power. Kristof how about focusing on the real cause of the criminal environment in Mexico, drug trade. Think of the fortunes that would be lost and the lives that would be saved if our drug prohibition policies came to an end. Put law enforcement money into rehab. And for those who will never be rehabilitated, recognize their situation as a disease and quit the condemnation.
12
Are you under the hilarious impression that the drug cartels would not simply attach themselves to legitimate run drug-producing businesses, and vanish tomorrow? Ever heard of the mob-run garbage collection business?
Legalizing drugs will achieve none of what you are seeking.
Legalizing drugs will achieve none of what you are seeking.
Again, you present the plight of the children without offering any concept of a solution. Who takes care of the children when they arrive here?
In the US, we have far too many children living so far below the poverty line they are homeless or living in shelters. We do virtually nothing to feed starving children here, and there _are_ starving children here. And we have a Congress that would be happier cutting more funding for poverty programs, in effect, funneling those kids further into a downward spiral.
If We, the People, undertake so sacred a task of welcoming these children into the US, how will they be housed when our own kids are in need of housing? Who will educate them when schools here are underfunded and overcrowded into insensibility? Who will provide them with nutritious meals and warm clothes? And most importantly, who will tuck them in and give them hugs at bedtime ?
The last thing anyone wants to see is these children finding themselves in a place where they are worse off than where they were.
Share what you are thinking about _how_ this can be done without further diverting the scant resources earmarked for poor children here. These are children we're talking about, not undocumented workers. There must be a plan for accepting them, not a wing and a prayer.
http://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
In the US, we have far too many children living so far below the poverty line they are homeless or living in shelters. We do virtually nothing to feed starving children here, and there _are_ starving children here. And we have a Congress that would be happier cutting more funding for poverty programs, in effect, funneling those kids further into a downward spiral.
If We, the People, undertake so sacred a task of welcoming these children into the US, how will they be housed when our own kids are in need of housing? Who will educate them when schools here are underfunded and overcrowded into insensibility? Who will provide them with nutritious meals and warm clothes? And most importantly, who will tuck them in and give them hugs at bedtime ?
The last thing anyone wants to see is these children finding themselves in a place where they are worse off than where they were.
Share what you are thinking about _how_ this can be done without further diverting the scant resources earmarked for poor children here. These are children we're talking about, not undocumented workers. There must be a plan for accepting them, not a wing and a prayer.
http://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
14
Many of these children are trying to reach relatives in the US who will take them in.
On a selfish note - adult refugees, compared to those seeking economic opportunity, have skills that enable them to enter the work force. When they do, they make more jobs than they take. That's right, they are job creators. They need housing, food, clothing etc. They pay taxes. They are good neighbors. Look it up.
On a selfish note - adult refugees, compared to those seeking economic opportunity, have skills that enable them to enter the work force. When they do, they make more jobs than they take. That's right, they are job creators. They need housing, food, clothing etc. They pay taxes. They are good neighbors. Look it up.
4
So the question asked, and rightfully so, is how can we tacke care of our children and the many, many more children in our neighboring countries who desperately need (our) help?
A few suggestions-
1) Prioritize our responsibilities to others rather than build machines of war and death. The US spends more on vastly expensive F-35 JSF fighter jets and other war machines and "our defense" than the next 8 highest spending countries combined. Is that a Christian response to the world we live in? - I think not!
2) Support local law enforcement and humanitarian efforts in Central America to help thse countries get their violent gangs under control.
3) Borrow money at generational-low rates for Treasury bonds and fund infrastucture projects through-out the US - creating millions of jobs which will support US families.
4) Legalize marijuana, tax it and take away a large part of the funding on the narco's. Take the money spent on drug interdiction and fund drug treatment.
A few suggestions-
1) Prioritize our responsibilities to others rather than build machines of war and death. The US spends more on vastly expensive F-35 JSF fighter jets and other war machines and "our defense" than the next 8 highest spending countries combined. Is that a Christian response to the world we live in? - I think not!
2) Support local law enforcement and humanitarian efforts in Central America to help thse countries get their violent gangs under control.
3) Borrow money at generational-low rates for Treasury bonds and fund infrastucture projects through-out the US - creating millions of jobs which will support US families.
4) Legalize marijuana, tax it and take away a large part of the funding on the narco's. Take the money spent on drug interdiction and fund drug treatment.
3
Kristof would probably continue to fill a lifeboat designed for twenty kids with hundreds of kids thus drowning them all...
3
The US passed the Crime Victim Act of 2004. Then DOJ gutted the law by refusing to recognized any possibility that a person could be a victim of a crime unless DOJ says they are. The Crime Victim Act says anyone can go to court with the evidence that there was a crime and that they were a victim of the crime even if the government has decided to ignore it. But DOJ decided on its own to oppose any victim who asserts a crime that they decided to ignore and somehow US Courts has agreed to ignore victims too. I don't understand this.
If all countries had a law whereby the victim could file a complaint in court and then something might happen, a referral for prosecution, or a glorified police report that might be combined with another victim's complaint, that could probably make a big difference over time.
If all countries had a law whereby the victim could file a complaint in court and then something might happen, a referral for prosecution, or a glorified police report that might be combined with another victim's complaint, that could probably make a big difference over time.
3
Kristof doesn't in fact offer any solution; he only deplores the current policy. That's not constructive. Most people can agree that the stories he relates are horrific. However, their veracity is unverified. Furthermore, if one assumes they are all true and we simply open the doors to everyone who claimed refuge from brutality, why stop at Central America? What about the Middle East? Asia? Africa? As awful as conditions may be for certain individuals, it's impossible and impractical for the U.S. to be a safe haven for everyone. We would literally sink the rescue ship.
40
Though I feel empathy for these kids, it is our responsibility to take care of our own children first. They should be our first priority. Unfortunately they are not.
20
Humanity, children or adults, never has been a U.S. priority.
We are not a moral enough culture or nice enough people.
We prefer profits and guns.
Shrug?
We are not a moral enough culture or nice enough people.
We prefer profits and guns.
Shrug?
13
There are many comments against immigration with valid arguments that I support, until they mention Trump. Trump is lying and says what they want to hear because he wants to be president, desperately, to please his own ego. Trump is actually one of those who hires illegal immigrants.
7
By forcing states to accept ever more economically driven illegal aliens and the expenses they generate for legal residents and citizens to absorb, the Obama administration has made the acceptance of true refugees...people fleeing real violence in their home countries...much harder. If we did not already have at least 11 million illegal aliens burdening our public treasuries, the United States could readily accept many thousands more refugees fleeing violence. Between The president's executive orders delaying deportation of illegal aliens, the lawsuits filed against states seeking to protect their own borders in the face of the federal revolving door, and the pressure to accept Syrian migrants the administration has made it politically challenging to accept more children fleeing the very real threat of violence in their own country. People like Mr. Kristof, who have never met an illegal alien they would deport...since they are essentially walled off from feeling the negative consequences of illegal immigration...have contributed to this situation. If Mr. Kristof wants to find someone to blame for the situation he is describing, he need only look in the mirror.
21
11 million do not "burden our treasuries". Every dime not sent back gets spent here. Those corporations that do pay into the SS/Medicare system with fake numbers effectively puts blood on all our hands as these workers will never collect and it will be distributed to the citizens. Google "School of the Americas" and see what else your tax dollars did to destabilize Central America over the last 4 decades. Decriminalize all drugs and let's make Nevada Americas Amsterdam for starters and then we can start to clean up this mees we created in our own hemisphere and leave the middle east alone.
3
For these Central American countries, money sent back from migration is a significant part of their national income.
The oligarchs have no reason to stem the violence (and may even encourage it). They have no reason to make their countries peaceful and productive when the U.S takes their people in, gives them healthcare, education, food stamps..... Otherwise why wouldn't they go to Panama or Costa Rica? The World Bank estimates that over $100 Billion goes back to these countries every year.
Until the U.S puts its foot down and says no more (or taxpayers get so fed up they demand change like Trump), these countries will continue to abuse their own people for the sake of their own continued power and greed. The enabling has to stop.
The oligarchs have no reason to stem the violence (and may even encourage it). They have no reason to make their countries peaceful and productive when the U.S takes their people in, gives them healthcare, education, food stamps..... Otherwise why wouldn't they go to Panama or Costa Rica? The World Bank estimates that over $100 Billion goes back to these countries every year.
Until the U.S puts its foot down and says no more (or taxpayers get so fed up they demand change like Trump), these countries will continue to abuse their own people for the sake of their own continued power and greed. The enabling has to stop.
21
Well you might be right about the first part, but the notion that a Trump presidency would do what's needed in any way is completely preposterous.
Rather than putting pressure on the root cause to which this issue stems from, it is the typical band aid solution being offered.
The Mexican and US governments need to put pressure on the Central American countries where families are being victimized by these gangs. If Mexico and the US allowed every family to enter seeking quasi refugee status, this would not address the root cause of gang problems but make matters worse.
Families that cannot leave or choose to stay in their home land will now be at a higher risk and less safe from these gangs.
The Mexican and US governments need to put pressure on the Central American countries where families are being victimized by these gangs. If Mexico and the US allowed every family to enter seeking quasi refugee status, this would not address the root cause of gang problems but make matters worse.
Families that cannot leave or choose to stay in their home land will now be at a higher risk and less safe from these gangs.
9
Yes!
we need to unite all our Neighbors to our south to stand strong against the coming of the rising from the sea Great China/ ASia SUPER POWER Empire with their own you are either with us or against us
Our Elite making short term profits off of being joined at the hip with China are disgusting as Donald Trump would say hehehe
we need to unite all our Neighbors to our south to stand strong against the coming of the rising from the sea Great China/ ASia SUPER POWER Empire with their own you are either with us or against us
Our Elite making short term profits off of being joined at the hip with China are disgusting as Donald Trump would say hehehe
So much of Central American productive land is owned and controlled by outside funds or corporations that the locals are left fighting for crumbs which fuels crime. So I'm told.
More a flaw of the system then character flaw of he people as the exploiters might imply. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
More a flaw of the system then character flaw of he people as the exploiters might imply. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
8
Can we, the American people, first worry about and then help the victims of gang violence in the United States before allowing more "victims" to enter and remain here illegally. It seems to me that adding more victims to an already large group of homegrown victims is certainly not going to solve anything and will actually exacerbate our problems.
Just like we can't and shouldn't be the police department of the world we can't and shouldn't be the worlds "safety-net." Especially when Americans are falling through that net everyday.
Just like we can't and shouldn't be the police department of the world we can't and shouldn't be the worlds "safety-net." Especially when Americans are falling through that net everyday.
64
"victims of gang violence" in the US are being killed by guns. Republicans have repeatedly voted against universal background checks. Republican - controlled states with lax laws enable gun runners to fill other states with unregulated guns owned by gang members. The solution for helping prevent gang violence in the US is to vote out Republicans. While we are waiting for that to happen, we cannot allow innocents, who would make a positive contribution to the US as immigrants have for generations, to die
4
I always found astounding the American ignorance of this situation
The US financed and supported a civil war in El Salvador in the 80's that led to a many salvadoreans run to the US, where a disenfranchised youth became a gang problem that the US addressed by deporting them back where they now run a lawless and failed state
This is the root cause, US intervention in Central America and the US and it's people should take responsibility for it
So please get the facts complete before making any statement or opinion
The US financed and supported a civil war in El Salvador in the 80's that led to a many salvadoreans run to the US, where a disenfranchised youth became a gang problem that the US addressed by deporting them back where they now run a lawless and failed state
This is the root cause, US intervention in Central America and the US and it's people should take responsibility for it
So please get the facts complete before making any statement or opinion
1
Hmm. Check out the party in power in places like Chicago and East St Louis and get back to me on the idea of voting out Republicans. If you want to look at every major metropolitan area in the US, and change the party that is running each one I'm all for it.
2
"We're helping deport kids to die"
Check out the inner cities Kristof and you will discover children die in those cities as well.
The children that manage to get to the United States come from wealthy families (by the standards of that country). Those kids get here and they are relegated to neighborhoods that often times are not much safer from whence they came.
I would be more than willing to approve of the immigration of these children under the condition that they are given a real chance by placing them in the neighborhoods that Romney, Trump, Clinton, (the professor of great things for all people), and the other 2% of the population live in.
And while doing so lets also transport some of those living in poverty already in the US to those neighborhoods as well.
Things might actually change if those people (the 2%) actually had to see and live next door to those suffering extreme poverty and among gang members.
Check out the inner cities Kristof and you will discover children die in those cities as well.
The children that manage to get to the United States come from wealthy families (by the standards of that country). Those kids get here and they are relegated to neighborhoods that often times are not much safer from whence they came.
I would be more than willing to approve of the immigration of these children under the condition that they are given a real chance by placing them in the neighborhoods that Romney, Trump, Clinton, (the professor of great things for all people), and the other 2% of the population live in.
And while doing so lets also transport some of those living in poverty already in the US to those neighborhoods as well.
Things might actually change if those people (the 2%) actually had to see and live next door to those suffering extreme poverty and among gang members.
42
really, look at the ugly atmosphere in this country and the man picked to represent the Republicans to be President. We effectively do not have a federal government that functions anymore and I predict that nothing will change after the election in spite of who wins. Obama's fault, that's a laugh, He's put forth many humane ideas to try to deal with the immigration problem, only to be shot down on everyone of them. I will vote in the election but I know already that nothing is going to change until the people in this country wake up, take notice of what is happening here and work together. Unfortunately, the ultimate fall will be sharp and ugly, but when all is said and done, maybe something resembling sane government in this country will come into being. But it will be ugly, bringing much suffering to all till that happens. So meanwhile as Rome is burning, its as usual, government for the rich and powerful, by the rich and powerful.
16
It isn't the rich and powerful who are having to deal with the repercussions of uncontrolled border crossings. In fact it works out to their benefit as they can now hire house cleaners, gardeners and pool boys cheaper. To the businesses it's cheaper labor in the meat industry and cheaper laborers in the construction industry.
But it is the middle class who pay the taxes used to support these invaders. To hire the additional teachers and translators and additional police.
For the poor it is more mouths at the food bank reducing their ability to feed their children, overcrowded schools and disruption to their education as attention is diverted to the people who don't come to the levels education for their chronological age and class standards.
We are damaging our already fragile social structure and no one seems willing to remember that this country is for it own citizens first.
But it is the middle class who pay the taxes used to support these invaders. To hire the additional teachers and translators and additional police.
For the poor it is more mouths at the food bank reducing their ability to feed their children, overcrowded schools and disruption to their education as attention is diverted to the people who don't come to the levels education for their chronological age and class standards.
We are damaging our already fragile social structure and no one seems willing to remember that this country is for it own citizens first.
26
Nyhuguenot: You forgot health care and child care. Here in Illinois we pay grandparents to watch their grandchildren while their parents work.
1
It's interesting that Mr. Kristof does not once mention the root causes for violence in Central America (namely the drug trade), and how US citizens contribute to that violence by on the one hand voting for politicians that continue the policy of prohibition of drugs and, on the other hand, buying illegal drugs that have entered the country through violent means, ignoring the human costs of the trade.
61
Carlos, I wouldn't worry too much about it. The end is nigh as we have done what the Arab proverb tells us NOT to do: 'Don't spit in the well you drink from". We have ruined the planet and mother nature is going to call a halt to her "human animal" experiment sometime in THIS century.
I appreciate columns like this from Kristof. Few columnists and reporters write about the victims of gangs in Latin America, which we need to be reminded is an on-going worsening issue. Readers may not agree on solutions, but at least we can't say we are not informed.
Increasingly I see the U.S. electorate tending to become more isolationist and wanting to not be bothered with other people's problems outside its borders. Increasingly I've come to the point of view that if we don't help to address some foreign issues early, they become much worse, and harder for us not to be affected later. If nothing else, my sense of humanity is at least deeply affected.
I don't want the U.S. to get involved in civil war situations of foreign countries like we did in Vietnam, but I feel we need to judge whether there are genocide, human trafficking, and slavery issues, and put our resources into lessening those problems.
Increasingly I see the U.S. electorate tending to become more isolationist and wanting to not be bothered with other people's problems outside its borders. Increasingly I've come to the point of view that if we don't help to address some foreign issues early, they become much worse, and harder for us not to be affected later. If nothing else, my sense of humanity is at least deeply affected.
I don't want the U.S. to get involved in civil war situations of foreign countries like we did in Vietnam, but I feel we need to judge whether there are genocide, human trafficking, and slavery issues, and put our resources into lessening those problems.
13
And justice for all: Do any of these immigrants live in your neighborhood?
1
Why is all the fault being laid on Obama? He has a Congress that can't even manage to muster the resolve to pass legislation to humanely treat the 11 million illegal immigrants we already have. He's tried to get Congress to pass legislation, including tightening enforcement beyond what existed in the Bush years and deporting record numbers, in an effort to get Republicans to agree to take care of the problem already in our house (let alone on our doorstep). Yet when the children first started arriving in waves, Obama was blamed by Republicans for having caused it through supposedly lax immigration laws (a lie).
Obviously, we have a huge segment of our population who don't want to take in these children and who will vote against anyone who proposes doing so.
Obama needs to worry about the impact of his policies on the children who are already here too. If he takes action (or inaction) that further inflames the anti-immigrant crowd, who clearly already have a lot of political clout, it will help nobody. And if Kristof wants to convince Americans to take action on this problem, he's pointing his arguments in the wrong direction. Not that I think the opponents will be swayed by him one bit.
Oh, and if we accept all these kids, we also need a Congress willing to appropriate funds to take care of them so the burden doesn't only fall on already overstressed localities. Where is that Congress, hmmm?
Let's get real here. Sympathy is cheap.
Obviously, we have a huge segment of our population who don't want to take in these children and who will vote against anyone who proposes doing so.
Obama needs to worry about the impact of his policies on the children who are already here too. If he takes action (or inaction) that further inflames the anti-immigrant crowd, who clearly already have a lot of political clout, it will help nobody. And if Kristof wants to convince Americans to take action on this problem, he's pointing his arguments in the wrong direction. Not that I think the opponents will be swayed by him one bit.
Oh, and if we accept all these kids, we also need a Congress willing to appropriate funds to take care of them so the burden doesn't only fall on already overstressed localities. Where is that Congress, hmmm?
Let's get real here. Sympathy is cheap.
15
If there is a growing anti-immigration crowd out here with political clout then isn't the Congress doing what its constituents wish? Appropriate funds? What funds? More borrowed money?
The president is not deporting more of these people than in the past. Instead "turnarounds", people who get caught and are convinced to go back at the border are being included in the deportation numbers.
It should be obvious that the majority of our citizens do not want more unskilled semi and fully illiterate people to enter the country but is willing to accept people who will become assets that will make the country better not drag it down further. I've yet to hear of one politician demanding an end to legal immigration only the costly influx of more people dependent on Americans.
The president is not deporting more of these people than in the past. Instead "turnarounds", people who get caught and are convinced to go back at the border are being included in the deportation numbers.
It should be obvious that the majority of our citizens do not want more unskilled semi and fully illiterate people to enter the country but is willing to accept people who will become assets that will make the country better not drag it down further. I've yet to hear of one politician demanding an end to legal immigration only the costly influx of more people dependent on Americans.
15
The most human treat for the illegal population in the USA is to deport all of them ASAP back to their native homelands (70% of the time, this is Mexico).
BTW: it is over 20 million -- not 11 million. Get with the times!
BTW: it is over 20 million -- not 11 million. Get with the times!
1
I'm not sure you are correct that the majority of immigrants are unskilled and semi and fully illiterate. This data is from a PEW study so it definately could exclude estimates of illegal immigrants. That said, it is based on data and the data show the flow of immigrants to this country since 2000 has slowed with the number of immigrants from Central and South America decilining. This is being offset by immigrants from Asian countries which may explain why, in 2015, 77% of immigrants had at least a highschool degree and over 40% had at least a college degree.
1
Among the illegal immigrants the left encourages to come, there is nothing from stopping some of these terrible Central American gangs from sneaking in as well.
If the left really cares about the fate of these refugees, then it should be willing to cut a bargain: send back all the illegal immigrants to Mexico and other countries where they are not threatened (plus any other concessions the Republicans may demand to feel safe), in exchange for official admission, for verifiable victims of violence like these ones, to the US and Mexico.
This is only a temporary solution --- the real solution is for Central American countries to get their violence under control, so that the refugees can return back to their home countries.
Since this would defeat the left's actual objective, which is gaining votes from these South and Central American immigrants, such a compromise has no chance of being enacted.
If the left really cares about the fate of these refugees, then it should be willing to cut a bargain: send back all the illegal immigrants to Mexico and other countries where they are not threatened (plus any other concessions the Republicans may demand to feel safe), in exchange for official admission, for verifiable victims of violence like these ones, to the US and Mexico.
This is only a temporary solution --- the real solution is for Central American countries to get their violence under control, so that the refugees can return back to their home countries.
Since this would defeat the left's actual objective, which is gaining votes from these South and Central American immigrants, such a compromise has no chance of being enacted.
13
Why do fail to mention that the U.S. created this humanitarian crisis when it spent millions and murdered hundreds of thousands during the 1980's when it supported and directed the death squads who destabilized Central America as well as propping up dictatorships that brutalized its own people in that region? Thousands of Central American youth fled to the ghettos of Los Angeles, where in order to survive they learned the be gang members and then were deported back to Central America to spread a reign of terror. The U.S. created this disaster and it's the responsibility of the U.S. to provide humanitarian relief to the victims of its never-ending cycles of destabilization and destruction.
21
It's also worth mentioning that the USA remains one of the biggest markets for the illicit drugs these gangs produce. The gangs continue to be financed in large part by US dollars.
14
The woman in this photo has four children and looks possibly as if she may be expecting a fifth. I am truly sorry for what happened to young Elena and that there are drug cartels and gangs in Honduras but US taxpayers are sick of being responsible for supporting these families. We have millions of undocumented illegal Latino immigrants here already. Full stop.
The author and all of the other bleeding heart libs should sign over 75% of their paychecks in order to sponsor and support these families if they feel so strongly all of them deserve to come to the U.S.
The fault lies with the corrupt governments in these countries who refuse to clean up these ganszcTcz
The author and all of the other bleeding heart libs should sign over 75% of their paychecks in order to sponsor and support these families if they feel so strongly all of them deserve to come to the U.S.
The fault lies with the corrupt governments in these countries who refuse to clean up these ganszcTcz
96
Wow. The heartlessness of this kind of comment is really stunning coming from a fellow American. Protecting people from this kind of violence is a liberal concern? How about a humanitarian concern? A Judeo-Christian concern? As for the financial impact on the U.S., it has been well documented that immigrants (including undocumented ones) generally contribute more to the U.S. Economy than they consume, if you want to focus just on dollars and cents.
1
If we are going to try to help then most definitely one element of that help must be family planning and access to contraceptives.
1
I just came here from an article about how we need universal health insurance in the USA.
If you are a liberal and want that -- and it is your most important issue -- then realize we CAN NEVER HAVE universal health care until every illegal alien is deported.
There is no way we can provide health insurance to over 300 million Americans -- and 1/10th of the population of MEXICO. Or Central America. Or any place else.
The nations that have single payer insurance, also have secure borders and strict immigration laws that are ENFORCED.
If you are a liberal and want that -- and it is your most important issue -- then realize we CAN NEVER HAVE universal health care until every illegal alien is deported.
There is no way we can provide health insurance to over 300 million Americans -- and 1/10th of the population of MEXICO. Or Central America. Or any place else.
The nations that have single payer insurance, also have secure borders and strict immigration laws that are ENFORCED.
1
Immigrants to the U.S. are usually willing to work hard and, yes, do jobs Americans don't want to do. They make the U.S. and its economy stronger.
But most people commenting here seem to see immigrants as only a burden on society and on its health care, education, law enforcement and social services systems.
In fact, the immigrants often pay taxes yet don't use these services to the extent American citizens do. But the anti-immigrant sentiment in the U.S. is strong and there is a racist element to it. It's what is fueling Trump's campaign.
Sending immigrants, especially children, back to their home countries to face the real risk of physical or sexual abuse and possibly death is immoral. But head-in-the-sand isolationism, which is also a trait of Trump's core supporters, is gripping this nation. It is wrong-headed and contrary to American values--values which are fast declining to hold any sway with the growing base of selfish and scared Americans.
But most people commenting here seem to see immigrants as only a burden on society and on its health care, education, law enforcement and social services systems.
In fact, the immigrants often pay taxes yet don't use these services to the extent American citizens do. But the anti-immigrant sentiment in the U.S. is strong and there is a racist element to it. It's what is fueling Trump's campaign.
Sending immigrants, especially children, back to their home countries to face the real risk of physical or sexual abuse and possibly death is immoral. But head-in-the-sand isolationism, which is also a trait of Trump's core supporters, is gripping this nation. It is wrong-headed and contrary to American values--values which are fast declining to hold any sway with the growing base of selfish and scared Americans.
44
More immigrants mean more people.
More people usually mean a bigger "economy" -- more total GDP.
But a bigger economy often is not a better economy.
A better economy is one with more GDP per capita.
Immigration usually results is less GDP per capita.
So, even if the economic pie usually gets bigger, the slices usually get smaller.
Also, the total government benefits for households headed by immigrants
is more than the total meager taxes they pay.
More people usually mean a bigger "economy" -- more total GDP.
But a bigger economy often is not a better economy.
A better economy is one with more GDP per capita.
Immigration usually results is less GDP per capita.
So, even if the economic pie usually gets bigger, the slices usually get smaller.
Also, the total government benefits for households headed by immigrants
is more than the total meager taxes they pay.
32
"Immigrants to the U.S. are usually willing to work hard and, yes, do jobs Americans don't want to do."
We hear this lie constantly. The truth is that Americans will do the work as they did in the past but they won't do it for starvation wages. Farms in particular are responsible because they stopped using the agricultural visas due to the cost of compliance in providing housing, sanitary facilities in the fields, medical care and transportation.
The meat industry uses them because they'll work cheaper and without complaint at work line speeds that injure workers who must continue on the line unless they are bleeding too much.
Pay better wages and benefits and you'll get workers. The problem is that American workers want cheaper arugula and chicken.
We hear this lie constantly. The truth is that Americans will do the work as they did in the past but they won't do it for starvation wages. Farms in particular are responsible because they stopped using the agricultural visas due to the cost of compliance in providing housing, sanitary facilities in the fields, medical care and transportation.
The meat industry uses them because they'll work cheaper and without complaint at work line speeds that injure workers who must continue on the line unless they are bleeding too much.
Pay better wages and benefits and you'll get workers. The problem is that American workers want cheaper arugula and chicken.
26
"In fact, the immigrants often pay taxes yet don't use these services."
Where do you live?
Where I live, we feed their children, we provide education (including translators), we provide health care for their children, we provide homes for their children, we provide early education for their children, we provide child care for their children. Now which service is it that they don't use?
Where do you live?
Where I live, we feed their children, we provide education (including translators), we provide health care for their children, we provide homes for their children, we provide early education for their children, we provide child care for their children. Now which service is it that they don't use?
25
I was involved in protesting US policies in El Salvador in the 70's and 80's when we supported dictatorships and repression and sided with the rich while a huge number of people left the country --- many to the US. Because they were not recognized as the refugees at that time they were often illegal and recruited into American style gangs. With the cessation of the civil war, gang members were returned to El Salvador to a society devastated by war. Although millions of dollars were spent by the US to destroy the country, little was done to help rebuild civil society when peace came. Instead we sent them young criminals whom we continue to support with our avaricious consumption of drugs. So now a new generation is fleeing, in large part due to our past mistakes and present actions for which we still take no repsponsibility.
32
I travel to and live part-time en western El Salvador; I speak/read/write Spanish well. I do not live among The "globalist tribe" that Kristoff wrote about recently, but among country town young and their families, with average earnings of about $400 per month ($500 is the salary advertised for English)
El Salvador and it's neighbors are beautiful places and the Salvadorans are kind, hardworking, respect success, and generally like the US (probably due to lack of contact as their is literally no tourism, despite having clean, empty Pacific beaches, beautiful countryside, and nice, small colonial towns sprinkled about the coffee covered volcanic mountains- due to its reputation for gang violence). There are few English speakers.
I've spent the equivalent of a year there since 2011, traveling alone, or with Salvadorans on intercity buses, on foot and in private or rental cars, and have yet to be even threatened in El Salvador, though as one of the few foreigners out in a he country, tall and blue-eyed, and an accented Spanish, I stand out.
Yes, there is violence, as I read in the local papers. Most do not want to leave but the extortion and lack a of opportunity is the problem. The people I know in the western towns are not leaving and the streets are bursting is a large, heartening population of school children.
Once you he gangs are extirpated, and the that's what it will take, and some opportunity, tourism will begin, for better or worse. This is a solvable problem.
El Salvador and it's neighbors are beautiful places and the Salvadorans are kind, hardworking, respect success, and generally like the US (probably due to lack of contact as their is literally no tourism, despite having clean, empty Pacific beaches, beautiful countryside, and nice, small colonial towns sprinkled about the coffee covered volcanic mountains- due to its reputation for gang violence). There are few English speakers.
I've spent the equivalent of a year there since 2011, traveling alone, or with Salvadorans on intercity buses, on foot and in private or rental cars, and have yet to be even threatened in El Salvador, though as one of the few foreigners out in a he country, tall and blue-eyed, and an accented Spanish, I stand out.
Yes, there is violence, as I read in the local papers. Most do not want to leave but the extortion and lack a of opportunity is the problem. The people I know in the western towns are not leaving and the streets are bursting is a large, heartening population of school children.
Once you he gangs are extirpated, and the that's what it will take, and some opportunity, tourism will begin, for better or worse. This is a solvable problem.
40
Since you have first hand experience I would be interested to know more. What is your perception of corruption within the political system?
Solutions to pervasive crime are often impeded by institutional corruption. Would you say that the government, police/military needs to be "cleaned up" first or would you say that it would successfully fight crime if it had more means available?
Is the extortion a rural phenomenon? Is it specific to a certain region?
What about educational opportunities for children? How would you characterize them?
Thanks.
Solutions to pervasive crime are often impeded by institutional corruption. Would you say that the government, police/military needs to be "cleaned up" first or would you say that it would successfully fight crime if it had more means available?
Is the extortion a rural phenomenon? Is it specific to a certain region?
What about educational opportunities for children? How would you characterize them?
Thanks.
1
If our legislature could be forward thinking, and accept years of recommendations to promote more education abroad, there would be an incredibly high yield on investment. Emigration would decline, and yes...tourism would increase as many Americans prefer travel to locations where the natives speak English.
1
'...the streets are bursting is a large, heartening population of school children...'
Perhaps not reproducing without any thought of how to support the children would help reduce poverty?
Nah, that would never work.
Perhaps not reproducing without any thought of how to support the children would help reduce poverty?
Nah, that would never work.
1
This is irresponsible reporting by a sanctimonious Nicholas Kristof.
The real crime is having large families in an overpopulated world. Honduras has a population growth rate of 2%, which is unsustainable in the long run.
We don't know exactly what happens in Honduras, but when the growth rate is this high, the ultimate results are always gruesome.
In some cases it is outright starvation. More commonly, high birth rates lead to social disorder, the spreading of crime, disintegration of the family, and the building up of ghettos.
It is a human rights abuse for countries like Honduras to keep their people from having access to safe birth control, and to abortions when those are necessary to limit family size.
And liberals like Kristof are also guilty of human rights abuse when they fail to note the connection between high birth rates and devastating drops in living standards.
One thing is certain. The crimes of the officials in Honduras who prevent the maintenance of small families to protect the planet should NOT be visited upon Americans by Obama's illegal acts of providing amnesty for an unlimited stream of illegal immigrants.
We need to control our borders and maintain respect for American laws. At the same time we need to recognize the crimes of governments like those in Latin America which prevent family planning, and perpetuate poverty by preventing birth control and abortion.
America needs a one child policy. So does Latin America.
The real crime is having large families in an overpopulated world. Honduras has a population growth rate of 2%, which is unsustainable in the long run.
We don't know exactly what happens in Honduras, but when the growth rate is this high, the ultimate results are always gruesome.
In some cases it is outright starvation. More commonly, high birth rates lead to social disorder, the spreading of crime, disintegration of the family, and the building up of ghettos.
It is a human rights abuse for countries like Honduras to keep their people from having access to safe birth control, and to abortions when those are necessary to limit family size.
And liberals like Kristof are also guilty of human rights abuse when they fail to note the connection between high birth rates and devastating drops in living standards.
One thing is certain. The crimes of the officials in Honduras who prevent the maintenance of small families to protect the planet should NOT be visited upon Americans by Obama's illegal acts of providing amnesty for an unlimited stream of illegal immigrants.
We need to control our borders and maintain respect for American laws. At the same time we need to recognize the crimes of governments like those in Latin America which prevent family planning, and perpetuate poverty by preventing birth control and abortion.
America needs a one child policy. So does Latin America.
80
Yes, high fertility feeds poverty and vice-versa. But that's not the question at hand - this tragedy involves the already born and how the US plays a role in their fate in light of conditions outside of our control.
The article mentions nothing about amnesty from the US government; it's an argument against the US supporting Mexico in deporting refugees that generally would not end up in the US, generally finding refuge in southern Mexico.
There are countless contributors to poverty and instability, including lack of access to birth control, and they are indeed a worthy fight. But that has nothing to do with protecting the living, which is the point of this article.
The article mentions nothing about amnesty from the US government; it's an argument against the US supporting Mexico in deporting refugees that generally would not end up in the US, generally finding refuge in southern Mexico.
There are countless contributors to poverty and instability, including lack of access to birth control, and they are indeed a worthy fight. But that has nothing to do with protecting the living, which is the point of this article.
18
Kristof could have taken a more neutral angle to his argument, but I definitely see why he wouldn’t talk about birth control. In developing countries, agriculture and blue-collar work often play a larger role in driving GDP, and both of those industries are notorious for poorly compensating their workers. While having a lot of family members under a meager salary seems like an immense burden over the short term, unwritten rules of give and take ensure that family members have a wide network of helpers in dire straits (successfully integrated migrant workers can wire substantial sums of US cash; children that cross into adulthood can take care of their aging parents in their own houses.) Imagine how families respond to increasing mortality rates. Family sizes balloon even further because the loss of a single-child, or even the possibility of an overburdened second child is capable of collapsing a tightly-knit family dynamic. I’m not even going to debate your point about the one-child policy because of how bitterly insensitive it is to people (like my parents) who suffered from it.
Overall, I agree with what Mr. Rhodes said. You’re oversimplifying a lot of moving parts and cramming them under a singular potential cause.
Overall, I agree with what Mr. Rhodes said. You’re oversimplifying a lot of moving parts and cramming them under a singular potential cause.
7
In the long term a reduction in the population growth rate would certainly be a benefit. But it's not going to do anything to solve the immediate problem of criminality facing families like those described in the article.
It seems in many countries that the population growth rate reductions FOLLOW from increased education and economic opportunity. By focusing FIRST on population growth rates I believe you are putting the cart before the horse. By all means if we are going to try to help in some way, then one of those ways should be to support better family planning. But that must be part of a package that includes improved education, business development, increased transparency in government and its related reduction in institutionalized corruption, as well as assistance with policing.
It would also be helpful if Americans stopped buying illegal drugs originating from Central America. American drug users are currently financing a large part of this criminality.
It seems in many countries that the population growth rate reductions FOLLOW from increased education and economic opportunity. By focusing FIRST on population growth rates I believe you are putting the cart before the horse. By all means if we are going to try to help in some way, then one of those ways should be to support better family planning. But that must be part of a package that includes improved education, business development, increased transparency in government and its related reduction in institutionalized corruption, as well as assistance with policing.
It would also be helpful if Americans stopped buying illegal drugs originating from Central America. American drug users are currently financing a large part of this criminality.
9
I can't help wondering how Americans can read these stories, decide there is nothing to be done, and then sleep, shop, and vacation without another thought.
Prior to the Obama administration's recent deportations, there was hardly an open door. A family could ask for an asylum hearing -- and that is just what happened. A judge heard the story, looked at whatever evidence, and decided whether asylum was justified. Why isn't that something we can continue to do? And yes, while we do our best to effect policies that will not continue to leave families like Elena's with no other choice.
Can we not imagine ourselves in this situation. Our daughters raped or our sons forced into gangs -- because other people cannot help us, because they say they are too poor themselves?
Prior to the Obama administration's recent deportations, there was hardly an open door. A family could ask for an asylum hearing -- and that is just what happened. A judge heard the story, looked at whatever evidence, and decided whether asylum was justified. Why isn't that something we can continue to do? And yes, while we do our best to effect policies that will not continue to leave families like Elena's with no other choice.
Can we not imagine ourselves in this situation. Our daughters raped or our sons forced into gangs -- because other people cannot help us, because they say they are too poor themselves?
35
I can't imagine myself, as many Honduras do, having four children. Perhaps that is why Hondurans are so poor and many Americans like myself are not. Honduras have one of the world's highest birth rates. That is where their real stress lies.
6
"Can we not imagine ourselves in this situation. Our daughters raped or our sons forced into gangs"
This situation already exists in Germany and the Nordic countries and the newspapers are finally reporting the incidents and throwing off government restrictions that wouldn't let them report the rate of rape in their countries. Muslim clerics are already bragging about how they will replace the native populations of these countries.
This situation already exists in Germany and the Nordic countries and the newspapers are finally reporting the incidents and throwing off government restrictions that wouldn't let them report the rate of rape in their countries. Muslim clerics are already bragging about how they will replace the native populations of these countries.
1
We need a foreign policy that defends democracy to our south even if we don't agree with the flavor they choose. The military coup in Honduras has a left it a state of horrific fear that forces families and children from the country. The US refused to recognize the coup against President Manuel Zelaya as a military coup which would have stopped further US aid - it was Secretary Clinton that made that call and preceded to open channels of communications with the illegal government, against the advice of the U.S. Ambassador to Honduras and other State Department officials. We reap what we sow, and in Honduras the US helped sow a killing field that brings refugees here.
20
A vanguard of elite, wealthy communities, including Kristof's, have myriad resources at their disposal to feed, clothe, house, educate proven threatened refugees. Overburdened middle, working class communities are in no position to add to their chaotic environment.
116
A callous view, to say the least. The myriad resources at the disposal of the middle class you speak of make what these people have, and what they are facing. look like paradise. You don't get it, they are fleeing for their lives and you say let the cards fall where they may, without even a philosophical embrace of what is the moral stance we can take as a nation. Thanks for offering your opinion, you have a right to it but it does nothing to help the situation addressed in this article.
1
And yet you can be very sure that no illegal aliens or poor refugee will ever be settled in Mr. Kristof's neighborhood -- not in the hipster enclaves of Manhattan or Brooklyn, and not in the Hamptons.
No, you can be sure the burden will be dropped on ordinary, working-class communities like my own -- already struggling with Section 8 housing, poverty, crime and badly run union schools and HIGH TAXES.
Just give us another huge burden -- and when we protest, scream that we are "xenophobic racist haters"! who do not deserve to have OUR concerns addressed!
No, you can be sure the burden will be dropped on ordinary, working-class communities like my own -- already struggling with Section 8 housing, poverty, crime and badly run union schools and HIGH TAXES.
Just give us another huge burden -- and when we protest, scream that we are "xenophobic racist haters"! who do not deserve to have OUR concerns addressed!
3
You said it in fewer words than I could.
.
Alas we all know the proverbial h*** that would break loose if someone tries to house refugees in rich suburbs like Kristof's. Heck, if you tried to build tax credited low income housing for working Americans in those areas, they'd freak. We've seen it before.
.
Alas we all know the proverbial h*** that would break loose if someone tries to house refugees in rich suburbs like Kristof's. Heck, if you tried to build tax credited low income housing for working Americans in those areas, they'd freak. We've seen it before.
2
Our failure years and years ago to take responsibility for the drug culture of the elite in our country is at the root of the development of gangs in Central America. We were and still are the primary market for illegal, high value drugs. We put a lot of low level users and sellers in prison but winked and turned a blind eye to the celebrities, frat houses, well to do in-crowd, etc. that had the resources to buy these drugs on a regular basis. Maybe if we had taken responsibility for our drug problems a long time ago things would have been different. And maybe if we hadn't turned a blind eye to corruption allowing our businesses to benefit from deals with the Central American oligarchs and their elite and the endless supply of cheap labor, maybe Central America would not be such a mess. Maybe if we welcomed these refugees as we welcomed the Cubans fleeing Castro, with subsidies and jobs we wouldn't find them a burden. Please let's not send people back to be raped and murdered. Like us, they just want to live a peaceful, productive life.
61
It is our money paying for this. One way or another, drugs or antidrug subsidy, or aid, it comes from us.
There is some responsibility on the people who pay for it all.
There is some responsibility on the people who pay for it all.
2
So what is the solution? The United States can't be expected to be the world's policeman. Nor is it practical to open the doors to everyone seeking to avoid poverty and crime. Perhaps we can pay China to invade Honduras, which is a country of only about 8-9 million people. China has cities more populated than that. And the Chinese have a lot more experience bringing their own citizens out of poverty. The Chinese will know how to end the criminal gangs real fast.
52
Well said, AF.
1
Not so sure about that. China has its share of gangs too, except they are beholden to and part of the government -- corruption everywhere -- and not gangsters in the sense of US or South American gangs. It's a revolving door for example between being Russian KBG and Russian mafia. It's merely changing the sector you "work" in.
1
So do the Russians, who also know how to end terrorism.
The United States can't solve the world's problems. There's plenty of work to attend to at home before we welcome any more of the world's poor and destitute.
112
I would agree John, were it that simple. But to some extent, the problems in Central America are the product of the USA's historic actions coming home to roost there - actions that most ordinary American's didn't know about or at least didn't understand or have an opportunity to approve or decline.
53
Ordinary Americans should not be punished for such actions either. We have enough unskilled, non-English speaking Latinos here. We are hardly in need another few million more.
3
This is not about us solving the world's problems. It's about us taking responsibility for the problems we create.
2
Once again we see Pres Obama giving in to the Right Wing and the hysterical immigration scare. Does he use his Bully Pulpit to explain why it would be the righteous thing to take in at least the 40,000 children?? Does he explain that the situation in Honduras and El Salvador is the direct result of our propping up murderous regimes during the Reagan era?? it's a disgrace. But in the end the root cause of most of the killing and ruthless gangs ( here in the US also ) is illegal drugs. Legalize heroin, cocaine and pot and most of this will end the next day.
Orange, NJ
Orange, NJ
24
The problem with letting these people in is that if they become citizens they can sponsor family members to come in also. For every child that means at least two more people who will probably also end up on the federal teat and as older people probably not learn the common language which at the present time is English. I saw this as a boy in my ethnic ghetto where people who had been in this country for 50 years never bothered to lean English. My Great Grandmother was one of them.
Eliminate the sponsorship rule. In addition, before we allow illegals amnesty it must come with the condition that they cannot ever become citizens and vote. We need an amendment to the constitution that eliminates birth right citizenship for the children born of those who entered the country illegally. Many actually come here pregnant or become pregnant with the idea of their child becoming an anchor that will keep them here and able to collect benefits.
Remove the incentive to come here illegally and they will stop coming.
Eliminate the sponsorship rule. In addition, before we allow illegals amnesty it must come with the condition that they cannot ever become citizens and vote. We need an amendment to the constitution that eliminates birth right citizenship for the children born of those who entered the country illegally. Many actually come here pregnant or become pregnant with the idea of their child becoming an anchor that will keep them here and able to collect benefits.
Remove the incentive to come here illegally and they will stop coming.
13
Give Obama credit for his own decisions.
I voted for Mr. Obama. Twice. I'm deeply ashamed and humiliated to admit my error in judgement. I made a terrible mistake and thousands of children, not just in Mexico and Central America, are paying for with their lives. How I could believe that a freshman Senator and neighborhood organizer could be President of the United States will haunt me forever. Just like this article.
Mr. Obama has one agenda. He wants to leave legacy. He wants to be remembered. But not for saving children. Not for saving the children of Syria or Mexico, or Honduras, or El Salvador. He can't hear them. He can't see them. Those children, the unseen and unheard can't vote.
The tragedy that is unfolding before us is not Mr. Obama's failing. It is our own. We failed America. We voted for a cold, indifferent ideologue who is deluded about the realities of politics and immigration. He is deluded about the prospects of life for those denied entry and sent back for slaughter. Hillary would do no less than Obama. Donald will do much worse.
As an American, the great grandson of immigrants who escaped purges of the Cossacks (one member of our family witnessed her sister's body thrown onto a heap of Jewish bodies on the blood soaked streets of Russia) as that American who's life is filled with too much to sustain me, I am deeply struck at the callous indifference, the arrogance and the ignorance of Obama and the rest of his political ilk.
Obama does not represent America or Americans. We have empathy.
Mr. Obama has one agenda. He wants to leave legacy. He wants to be remembered. But not for saving children. Not for saving the children of Syria or Mexico, or Honduras, or El Salvador. He can't hear them. He can't see them. Those children, the unseen and unheard can't vote.
The tragedy that is unfolding before us is not Mr. Obama's failing. It is our own. We failed America. We voted for a cold, indifferent ideologue who is deluded about the realities of politics and immigration. He is deluded about the prospects of life for those denied entry and sent back for slaughter. Hillary would do no less than Obama. Donald will do much worse.
As an American, the great grandson of immigrants who escaped purges of the Cossacks (one member of our family witnessed her sister's body thrown onto a heap of Jewish bodies on the blood soaked streets of Russia) as that American who's life is filled with too much to sustain me, I am deeply struck at the callous indifference, the arrogance and the ignorance of Obama and the rest of his political ilk.
Obama does not represent America or Americans. We have empathy.
10
Take some of that empathy and work to get decent schools and job opportunities for kids in Baltimore, MD and Chicago, IL, to name two poverty plagued U.S. cities. We do not need to import orphans, or women with dependents and no father; we would do better to stop stop supporting the corrupt governments they are fleeing from. El Salvador and Honduras are drug transit venues; we give their governments financial aid which go directly into the pockets of those who run the cartels. The poor either join the gangs, get pregnant and have more poor kids, or try to get to the U.S. where they believe someone here will take care of them. A closed loop of poverty, crime, drugs and ignorance. If we can't keep our bridges from collapsing; if we can't maintain an interstate highway system from the '50's; if we can't properly fund health care or education for our own kids, why are we inviting in more dependents without skills, education, or stable families here to receive them? Close down the drug trafficking across our borders; fund enough border patrols to stop this open trade in drugs and crime. What do we pay dues to the U.N. for? Peacekeeping? Isn't that what these kids need? Peace and safety? None of this makes sense anymore. Kristoff seeks out neediness the way French pigs go after truffles.
37
Mitt would have done better? Dubya did much worse, except he specialized in Iraq.
5
Empathy is one thing. Financial support for thousand upon thousands of impoverished people is quite another.
3
I don't know who is trying to kid who, but the problems mentioned here are in large part if not entirely a consequence of US policies which have never been directed toward helping the societies in question so much as exploiting them.
What Central or South American nation is or ever has been a threat to us?
What nation in the world is willing to engage in mutually assured destruction?
Are we so frightened by political philosophies that seek to aid the impoverished or so indebted to wealth siphoning miscreants both here and abroad that we are willing to betray any vestige of honest compassion?
There are plenty of so called reasons tossed out by those who must justify their acceptance of and participation in the systemic theft of wealth from the working poor in any nation including ours and none of them can withstand even minimal scrutiny.
No one asks to be born let alone into grinding poverty and being born into wealth is simply a matter of luck. Can anyone who bothers to think see any justice in a society which shrugs its shoulders?
There is a political crisis here which when addressed with reason as a guide is dismissed with a shrug of the shoulders preceding "What can I do about it?"
We can start by taking stock of our acceptance of an economic system which urges vast accumulation of wealth as a right and poverty as a fault.
The deck is stacked, the dice are loaded and the game is rigged, but beyond a sneer too many of us don't ever give that a thought.
What Central or South American nation is or ever has been a threat to us?
What nation in the world is willing to engage in mutually assured destruction?
Are we so frightened by political philosophies that seek to aid the impoverished or so indebted to wealth siphoning miscreants both here and abroad that we are willing to betray any vestige of honest compassion?
There are plenty of so called reasons tossed out by those who must justify their acceptance of and participation in the systemic theft of wealth from the working poor in any nation including ours and none of them can withstand even minimal scrutiny.
No one asks to be born let alone into grinding poverty and being born into wealth is simply a matter of luck. Can anyone who bothers to think see any justice in a society which shrugs its shoulders?
There is a political crisis here which when addressed with reason as a guide is dismissed with a shrug of the shoulders preceding "What can I do about it?"
We can start by taking stock of our acceptance of an economic system which urges vast accumulation of wealth as a right and poverty as a fault.
The deck is stacked, the dice are loaded and the game is rigged, but beyond a sneer too many of us don't ever give that a thought.
68
A sneer? How appropriate to say that. That is exactly the position of many Hillary supporters. They sneer at Sanders supporters on these pages and elsewhere on the internet daily. They sneer at any suggestion that they are complicit in the tragedy of unhinged, unfettered, vampire capitalism. Why? Because they are its beneficiaries.
2
Latino poverty is not our problem. Flooding our communities with Latin America's excess Catholic population is certainly not any sort of solution.
6
You have hit the nail on the head
1
This is a slope we cannot afford to slip down. As others have mentioned, there are millions upon millions of people in the same situation around the world. What are we to do? We can't have everyone in trouble come to the US.
So Mr. Kristof, I 100% disagree with you.
So Mr. Kristof, I 100% disagree with you.
203
But what renders the situation more morally complex is that US policies fostered instability in Central America and the Middle East, which is driving the refugee crises. As Colin Powell recognized, if we break it we own it. So please disagree only 99%! And please never employ an illegal to do your yard work.
2
"What are we to do?"
Well, for a start, we in the USA could stop buying illegal drugs originating from Central America. It's US dollars that fund those gangs.
Well, for a start, we in the USA could stop buying illegal drugs originating from Central America. It's US dollars that fund those gangs.
1
Here is what I remember. In the 1980s in an effort to confront Daniel Ortega and the Sandinistas in Nicaragua - the United States had a large military presence in El Salvador - unofficially of course - where they could launch raids etc against the Sandanistas. As a result of our presence - the war in Nicaragua unofficially spilled over into El Salvador. El Salvadorians sought refuge in the United States, but were denied - because technically there was not a war in El Salvador. This was also the era of the US backed Arms for Contras via Iran -Olivier North - Cocaine mess. The United States was a direct contributor to the destabilization of this area - an area that has never really recovered. That we continue to turn our backs on people who are living a mess we helped create seems all to familiar.........and reprehensible.
147
On the other hand we ignored Venezuela and Chavez and what is going on there? People are dying in hospitals because there is no electricity to power machinery. There are no drugs to treat diseases. Personal items like toilet paper and tampons are unavailable and the food situation is worse. People are rioting and destroying supermarkets so there are fewer distribution points what little comes in. The army escorts food shipments (the soldiers look well fed).
The US isn't to blame for all that occurs in Latin America.
The US isn't to blame for all that occurs in Latin America.
10
Rufus W. **** Your reading of history is a bit off. They were to separate conflicts. The Sandinista's had a lawful revolution which we ( Reagan ) did not want to stand. In El Salvador we propped up the murderous regime not allowing a revolution. All in an effort to stop Soviet expansion. While not doing great economically, you'll notice there is no great drug gang problem in Nicaragua, like El Salvador. But your basic premise is right, our policies during that time did destabilize the whole region.
3
The US is not responsible for Latino dysfunction, overbreeding and lack of respect for education.
2
"But historically, Central Americans had a refuge in southern Mexico, and it is unnecessary and cruel now for the U.S. to take the initiative and work so diligently to cut off that safe haven."
I’m confused. You claim that Central Americans sought refuge in southern Mexico until the Obama administration asked Mexico to send them back to their home countries. It does make sense that Central Americans would move to relatively safe regions in southern Mexico, like the Yucatan, since Central Americans and southern Mexicans are all of Mayan heritage. The Central Americans would feel more comfortable in a culture more like their own. But the Central Americans were not seeking refuge in southern Mexico; they were coming all the way to our country.
Here they can request asylum which brings many short-term benefits such as housing and medical care. It also offers these and other benefits in the form of long-term welfare programs. Consequently, Central Americans decided to move here instead of to southern Mexico.
The Obama Administration asked Mexico to deter Central Americans from coming to our border because tens of thousands were arriving monthly. Central Americans, themselves, made the economic decision to come here instead of settling in southern Mexico.
Our country would be happy if Central Americans would move to southern Mexico instead of claiming asylum here.
I’m confused. You claim that Central Americans sought refuge in southern Mexico until the Obama administration asked Mexico to send them back to their home countries. It does make sense that Central Americans would move to relatively safe regions in southern Mexico, like the Yucatan, since Central Americans and southern Mexicans are all of Mayan heritage. The Central Americans would feel more comfortable in a culture more like their own. But the Central Americans were not seeking refuge in southern Mexico; they were coming all the way to our country.
Here they can request asylum which brings many short-term benefits such as housing and medical care. It also offers these and other benefits in the form of long-term welfare programs. Consequently, Central Americans decided to move here instead of to southern Mexico.
The Obama Administration asked Mexico to deter Central Americans from coming to our border because tens of thousands were arriving monthly. Central Americans, themselves, made the economic decision to come here instead of settling in southern Mexico.
Our country would be happy if Central Americans would move to southern Mexico instead of claiming asylum here.
33
I have read reports that Mexico is diverting Central American migrants to the Texas, New Mexico borders. Mexico is not accepting refugees from Central America. This is a confusing scenario; are Honduras and El Salvador drug transit countries? I have also read that they are. Finally, when these people flee to the U.S., where do they go? Are they in camps? Dorms? Ghettos? Drugs are the well spring for all of this mess; and, the U.S. is big buyer. We don't fund treatment centers, but we can fund welfare for those who are fleeing drug infested cultures south of the border? Finally, who fathers these kids? This woman has four, one of which looks very young. Birth control does not exist in these countries? Have kids you can't support or take care of, then come to the U.S. where welfare will take care of them, and you. Tackle the drug problem; train young men to go home and take their communities back from gangs. Put our addicts into more rehabs. This is just a forever thing, unless we deal with the drugs, poverty and crime the drug trade produces. And, why are giving financial aid to these corrupt governments? Doesn't that aid support corruption and drug dealing?
23
You just entered a fact free zone. In Central America, only Guatemalans and to some extent Hondurans are of Mayan descent. Mostly, the indigenous peoples of El Salvador. much of Nicaragua and the north Pacific coast of Costa Rica trace ancestries to southward migrating Nahuatl speaking warriors from the Valley of Mexico. Moreover, modern migrants never wanted to stay in southern Mexico. From the 1970s on for Central Americans, Mexico has been a way station to the U.S.
In pre-Colombian times, communities were also on the move, also driven out by violent men. Nahuatl speaking Aztecs, who conquered Mexico before Cortes, were pushed south from our desert Southwest. probably by other Nahuatl speakers like the Apaches.
Blaming Obama is like blaming FDR for the Depression. Not everything Obama did was smart, witness his promise before the 2014 off year elections to selectively enforce immigration law, a promise postponed by opposition from six Democratic Senatorial "losers". (Latino voters stayed home in droves after the postponement, ensuring Democratic defeat).
The deadlocked Supremes just let stand a disputed Appellate Court ruling, undoing a substantial part of Obama's immigration executive order, making it nearly impossible to do what Kristoff wants.
What migrants need is "the right to stay" in home countries. A right denied them by maras. drug cartels and police assassins.. Crazy for us to repeat bad history and invade, but what about a UN peacekeeping force?
In pre-Colombian times, communities were also on the move, also driven out by violent men. Nahuatl speaking Aztecs, who conquered Mexico before Cortes, were pushed south from our desert Southwest. probably by other Nahuatl speakers like the Apaches.
Blaming Obama is like blaming FDR for the Depression. Not everything Obama did was smart, witness his promise before the 2014 off year elections to selectively enforce immigration law, a promise postponed by opposition from six Democratic Senatorial "losers". (Latino voters stayed home in droves after the postponement, ensuring Democratic defeat).
The deadlocked Supremes just let stand a disputed Appellate Court ruling, undoing a substantial part of Obama's immigration executive order, making it nearly impossible to do what Kristoff wants.
What migrants need is "the right to stay" in home countries. A right denied them by maras. drug cartels and police assassins.. Crazy for us to repeat bad history and invade, but what about a UN peacekeeping force?
8
The same pattern is found in Europe. These"refugees" are bypassing Southern Europe and heading into Germany and the Nordic countries because they can get more and better benefits. The rules on refugees require that they stop at the first country that is a safe haven for them. That would of course be Italy and Greece but neither country offers good benefits primarily because they can't afford them for their own people much less outsiders.
9
Where is the "El Salvadorean National Guard". It would be better for the US to admit the El Savadoreans onto this soil for protection, in a camp, for training, and ultimately go back home as a well equipped miltia, to fight for their homeland. Absorbing them into our economy only exacerbates the problems we currently have, ourselves. Only admit those who promise to come north to train, be equipped, and be repatriated, with the support of the US to fight for their own homes.
20
I’m convinced that one of the primary reasons that Dems increasingly do so dismally at controlling legislatures, including the U.S. Congress, governorships and other elected offices at local and state levels, is the observation that they haven’t the slightest capacity to see real consequences.
Central America is experiencing the problems of failed societies. Venezuela is only halfway down that road, but already its government resembles the gangs that prey on just the people Nick seeks to deify. What greater claim on our mercy at any cost to our culture do Central Americans displaced by the dysfunction of their own failed societies have on us than the 60 MILLION displaced that the U.N. claims are roaming the world? If we merely airlift from three Central American nations the 95% of their populations who don’t economically benefit from corruption and murder, what’s next? We absorb the OTHER 60 million? Or maybe we just get Angela Merkel to welcome them into Germany – because apparently nobody ELSE is willing to take them in.
“We’re helping deport kids to die”. Wow. It would be a lot more actionable and sustainable if, in conjunction with Mexico, we ignore sovereign considerations and just go in and “disappear” all these criminal bananas causing the problems and subsidize the three countries economically to get back on their feet, while repatriating all these kids in the process.
But, no, let’s just add them to the 11-30 million ALREADY here. Then, on to the 60 million.
Not.
Central America is experiencing the problems of failed societies. Venezuela is only halfway down that road, but already its government resembles the gangs that prey on just the people Nick seeks to deify. What greater claim on our mercy at any cost to our culture do Central Americans displaced by the dysfunction of their own failed societies have on us than the 60 MILLION displaced that the U.N. claims are roaming the world? If we merely airlift from three Central American nations the 95% of their populations who don’t economically benefit from corruption and murder, what’s next? We absorb the OTHER 60 million? Or maybe we just get Angela Merkel to welcome them into Germany – because apparently nobody ELSE is willing to take them in.
“We’re helping deport kids to die”. Wow. It would be a lot more actionable and sustainable if, in conjunction with Mexico, we ignore sovereign considerations and just go in and “disappear” all these criminal bananas causing the problems and subsidize the three countries economically to get back on their feet, while repatriating all these kids in the process.
But, no, let’s just add them to the 11-30 million ALREADY here. Then, on to the 60 million.
Not.
103
Mr. Kristof makes this allegation -- that we are sending children back home to die -- without ONE SINGLE piece of evidence that this has EVER happened -- that a child returned to their native homeland was then murdered by gangs.
NOT ONE VERIFIED STORY. Not one.
Meanwhile, in Chicago, 5 or 6 CHILDREN are killed by gangs and drive-by shootings -- every week.
NOT ONE VERIFIED STORY. Not one.
Meanwhile, in Chicago, 5 or 6 CHILDREN are killed by gangs and drive-by shootings -- every week.
4
Concerned:
Your mistake is seeking to introduce reason into an inherently emotional cauldron of conflicting ideologies. I, on the other hand, fight emotional rant with emotional rant, and likely make better headway.
Your mistake is seeking to introduce reason into an inherently emotional cauldron of conflicting ideologies. I, on the other hand, fight emotional rant with emotional rant, and likely make better headway.
It was our ignoring sovereign considerations that put South and Central America into play as failed Nation/states. Or do you just purposely forget about Reagan and Bush I's meddling in the sovereign considerations of those Countries?
Dems are not in favor of opening our borders with no constraints any more that repubs are, but we are more in favor of trying to help instead of just lecturing people on their bad choices.
Dems are not in favor of opening our borders with no constraints any more that repubs are, but we are more in favor of trying to help instead of just lecturing people on their bad choices.
1
Kristof is not the first to detail the home-grown savagery threatening many Central American refugees. What he fails to mention, perhaps for lack of space or to avoid diluting his message, is that the U.S. was a major player in helping to create the gangs that threaten these desperate refugees and their home nations. We deported the gang members to their home countries, who then simply reorganized and directed their brutality with even greater impunity among the people.
It is both ironic and repugnant that we are seeking to deport victims of these gangs back home into the "welcoming" and barbaric embrace of the gangs we deported in the first place. Instead, we should be helping Mexico to protect these refugees while helping the nations where these gangs call home to destroy these monsters that we have unwittingly unleashed. I suspect that Congress, far more than Obama, has played a major role in not providing the funding for either of these far more preferable and humane options.
It is both ironic and repugnant that we are seeking to deport victims of these gangs back home into the "welcoming" and barbaric embrace of the gangs we deported in the first place. Instead, we should be helping Mexico to protect these refugees while helping the nations where these gangs call home to destroy these monsters that we have unwittingly unleashed. I suspect that Congress, far more than Obama, has played a major role in not providing the funding for either of these far more preferable and humane options.
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Daniel Rose, are you aware that the gang members we deported had first come to our country seeking asylum. Our government did not want to admit them. Churches sheltered them until the government agreed to let them stay.
Once they were free to stay, they formed a gang, and were so awful that no one wanted them anymore. That's why they were deported. Perhaps they should have been executed or imprisoned for life.
This newspaper reported that half of the Central American youth who were seeking asylum in the summer of 2014 were males who claimed they were 15, 16, or 17 years old. It was reported elsewhere that many sported gang tattoos. It is a truism that once you become a member of a gang, you are a member for life.
Even if some of these young people do not want to be in a gang, what are they going to do, here in the U.S., to make a living? Most have less than a primary school education. It would be interesting to know how many are in school, and how many are working for a gang.
Once they were free to stay, they formed a gang, and were so awful that no one wanted them anymore. That's why they were deported. Perhaps they should have been executed or imprisoned for life.
This newspaper reported that half of the Central American youth who were seeking asylum in the summer of 2014 were males who claimed they were 15, 16, or 17 years old. It was reported elsewhere that many sported gang tattoos. It is a truism that once you become a member of a gang, you are a member for life.
Even if some of these young people do not want to be in a gang, what are they going to do, here in the U.S., to make a living? Most have less than a primary school education. It would be interesting to know how many are in school, and how many are working for a gang.
52
Best guess is that they are receiving medical and welfare benefits; they are probably stuffed into those crowded dorms with the bunk beds; they are not attending any kind of regular school program; they will end up on the street, pregnant. For those who talk about all the positive immigration history in the U.S., please look back at those immigrants. How many were unwed and pregnant without husbands or fathers? How many were uneducated and without any skills at all? How many expected to be taken care of as soon as they stepped off Ellis Island? How many blamed the U.S. for their troubles? They felt they were lucky to get here, and they scrambled for any jobs they could get: serving girls; railroad workers; cleaning women etc. They worked themselves out of poverty; they put everything into their children; their children became teachers, doctors, etc.
15
"the home-grown savagery" in Banana Republics was fertilized, nurtured, by decades of outside involvement, both official and corporate. Some of that was European, but most of it was American.
They did it, but not entirely on their own, not at all. The sponsorship was consistently on one side pushing one way, always on the side of evil pushing evil.
They did it, but not entirely on their own, not at all. The sponsorship was consistently on one side pushing one way, always on the side of evil pushing evil.
1
Mr. Kristof, your heart is in the right place. But is it practical, feasible to give asylum ( because that is what it is ) to all people and children, running away from strife in their own country. If we allow a few, there will be more at the door. Soon all the banana republics of South America will have an exodus. Do we have the capacity financially, logistically and above all morally to accept these poor children? I doubt it, rather I know it is almost impossible. We cannot allow the thugs in these countries to takeover by default. The sure way would be to help these governments tackle these goons so that these poor innocents don't have to face such a horrible life or death. No kid deserves that.
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NI *** these "banana republics " in the article are in Central America, not South America.
But the same logic also says "don't ever be a good samaritan". Surely we need to look at individual cases, as Kristof does.
Some of the worst violence in Central America depends upon guns trafficked from the US and drugs sold in the US.
http://www.coha.org/drug-trafficking-central-americas-dark-shadow/
http://www.cfr.org/americas/countering-criminal-violence-central-america...
So we are involved and cannot turn our backs on these good people.
Those who turn such good people away surely don't understand that immigrants always have strengthened and built America. Of course we must rescue and welcome these good people
As for those who say we can't take everyone, I will exchange Elena and her family for wealthy divisive immigrants who clearly came just for economic reasons, such as Murdoch.
http://www.coha.org/drug-trafficking-central-americas-dark-shadow/
http://www.cfr.org/americas/countering-criminal-violence-central-america...
So we are involved and cannot turn our backs on these good people.
Those who turn such good people away surely don't understand that immigrants always have strengthened and built America. Of course we must rescue and welcome these good people
As for those who say we can't take everyone, I will exchange Elena and her family for wealthy divisive immigrants who clearly came just for economic reasons, such as Murdoch.
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The wealthy and educated immigrants bring jobs.
The others become a burden on our society. We already have enough burdens. We don't need any more.
The others become a burden on our society. We already have enough burdens. We don't need any more.
4
The preferred firearm of these gangs is the Automatic AK47 which is not produced in the US. They come from one of the 22 authorized manufacturers around the world. Americans cannot buy automatic weapon since 1934 so they aren't coming from here. Neither are the grenades they use since we don't sell those here either. More likely they are being smuggled in from South America.
It's hard to condemn the practice after the US smuggled 2000 guns into Mexico under Fast and Furious.
It's hard to condemn the practice after the US smuggled 2000 guns into Mexico under Fast and Furious.
1
The government of Honduras is indeed a brutal dictatorship which is in league with the drug cartels. In 2011, the elected president, Zelaya, was kidnapped by the military and flown out of the country. Our ambassador cabled that a military coup had taken place, but Sec'y Clinton avoided the word "military" in describing the coup, so that we could give the new regime aid under the "Powell doctrine."
We supported the coup, probably because Zelaya had moved to the left. Clinton would later say we should send these children back to serve as an example to others who would leave. Of course, that's not really what she meant. Obama is complicit, too. They created this part of the refugee crisis, but as is detailed here, the refugees are being sent back by the Obama government and its allies in Mexico, is detailed in this article.
Why did you Clintonites give me such a bad choice in this horrible election? Don't you know?
We supported the coup, probably because Zelaya had moved to the left. Clinton would later say we should send these children back to serve as an example to others who would leave. Of course, that's not really what she meant. Obama is complicit, too. They created this part of the refugee crisis, but as is detailed here, the refugees are being sent back by the Obama government and its allies in Mexico, is detailed in this article.
Why did you Clintonites give me such a bad choice in this horrible election? Don't you know?
21
Sending refugees back to die is against US law on admission of refugees. It is against international requirements too.
It is even worse if they are helpless, like children. But it is always illegal.
Those who would send these kids back are criminals, under our existing law. There is no need to change policy. There is a need to enforce existing law.
If what Nick reports here is correct, the problem is not our laws, it is our criminal politicians playing the politics of hate and fear with that law.
If Democrats do it too, then that is even worse, because they are also telling us that they won't do that, only Republicans do that. And yes, I think Democrats are doing it too.
It is even worse if they are helpless, like children. But it is always illegal.
Those who would send these kids back are criminals, under our existing law. There is no need to change policy. There is a need to enforce existing law.
If what Nick reports here is correct, the problem is not our laws, it is our criminal politicians playing the politics of hate and fear with that law.
If Democrats do it too, then that is even worse, because they are also telling us that they won't do that, only Republicans do that. And yes, I think Democrats are doing it too.
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The problem, Mark, is that many of these so-called refugees are LYING -- because they or their lefty liberal immigration attorneys know the law. They know just what kind of stories to make up to get the sympathy of judges.
Honduras and Guatemala are no more dangerous than the slums of Chicago or East LA -- where such immigrants routinely MOVE!!!
Mr. Kristof repeats these stories, with NO investigation and no coroboration -- he admits as much -- just pictures of remarkably cute, attractive kids and teens.
If conditions are THIS BAD, then we should be working with the governments of those countries to improve police protection and crack down on criminals. But what we CANNOT DO is continually accept unlimited numbers of migrants of any kind -- while our own citizens suffer unemployment and job loss.
Honduras and Guatemala are no more dangerous than the slums of Chicago or East LA -- where such immigrants routinely MOVE!!!
Mr. Kristof repeats these stories, with NO investigation and no coroboration -- he admits as much -- just pictures of remarkably cute, attractive kids and teens.
If conditions are THIS BAD, then we should be working with the governments of those countries to improve police protection and crack down on criminals. But what we CANNOT DO is continually accept unlimited numbers of migrants of any kind -- while our own citizens suffer unemployment and job loss.
7
I think Kristoff is saying that Mexico is sending them back due to pressure from the U.S. Maybe helping to fund Mexico's immigration and asylum apparatus would help.
2
This is why we're pushing the criminal act of deporting children off on Mexico. We're just moving the border further south and making Mexico do the dirty work. Disgusting.
2
The crime ,corruption,violence and desperation that currently exists in Mexico and Central America has as a foundational cause abject poverty. These people are desperately poor because the Oligarchs that control the wealth in these countries steadfastly refuse to spend any meaningful resources on education,health care,job training or infrastructure on their poorest citizens. The poor instead are instructed to cross the border into the United States by any means necessary(Which unfortunately means lying to authorities),get a job and send the money home to care for your family. This has been allowed to go on because businesses here in the United States covet the super cheap labor and it takes the responsibility for caring for these people out of the hands of the South and Central American governments and deposits that responsibility into the laps of the American tax payer. We cannot continue to support these people. Our own health care ,education,law enforcement and social service infrastructure is collapsing under the weight of this extra burden. Would it really be so terrible if these corrupt and greedy governments were forced to care for their own poor?As long as our government makes it possible for these people and their problems to be deposited on the doorstep of the American people.the poverty ,violence and crime that has caused this wave of desperate migrants will sadly continue.
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The USA should take over South America then because their governments have had adequate time to remedy the situation that is getting worse instead of better.
One of the best measures of a civilization's progress is the extent to which the circumstances of one's birth dictate the quality of one's life and the manner of one's death.
Whatever one's position regarding the difficult issue of immigration, we should all do everything within our collective power to prevent sentencing a child to a lifetime of despair and deprivation because of where and into what circumstances a child is born.
Whatever one's position regarding the difficult issue of immigration, we should all do everything within our collective power to prevent sentencing a child to a lifetime of despair and deprivation because of where and into what circumstances a child is born.
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Didier,
I agree and you're absolutely correct, but may I add a comparison that is out-of-context to this article?
Just add the words "poor American"to your second sentence just after "prevent", so that your sentence reads:
"to prevent sentencing an American child to a lifetime of despair and deprivation because of where (and into what circumstances child is born."
“Do not waste your time on Social Questions. What is the matter with the poor is Poverty what is the matter with the rich is Uselessness.”
George Bernard Shaw
And in conclusion, "if we cannot take care of our poorest, what does that say about us as a nation?"
(I couldn't find the author of this quote)
I agree and you're absolutely correct, but may I add a comparison that is out-of-context to this article?
Just add the words "poor American"to your second sentence just after "prevent", so that your sentence reads:
"to prevent sentencing an American child to a lifetime of despair and deprivation because of where (and into what circumstances child is born."
“Do not waste your time on Social Questions. What is the matter with the poor is Poverty what is the matter with the rich is Uselessness.”
George Bernard Shaw
And in conclusion, "if we cannot take care of our poorest, what does that say about us as a nation?"
(I couldn't find the author of this quote)
8
A truly horrifying story. Denying these children asylum seems inhumane, but granting asylum to every target of Central American gangs seems unrealistic. These gangs need to be crushed, and we should support any endeavor to do so.
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With climate change will come the movement of millions, perhaps billions, of people trying to escape its effects. We and Russia both have huge empty spaces. Last time I checked Montana had a population density of one person per 10 square miles. Climate refugees and those who suffer the devastating effects of our retrograde foreign policy will go somewhere. We have a choice: deny them and fight the inevitable or find a way to accommodate people fleeing situations we have either caused (climate change) or enabled (dictators).
Let's be wiser than we generally are. Let's plan with our global partners to save people who are forced to chose between death now and a hope of life elsewhere.
Let's be wiser than we generally are. Let's plan with our global partners to save people who are forced to chose between death now and a hope of life elsewhere.
1
Well Kim you are correct, but our Community Organizer In Chief Obama is not about to show any back bone. Maybe the next President will.
2
Yes, horrifying. And many of these kids that are in the US belong to gangs as well right here in this country in almost every city.
2
There are millions of people around the world who can truthfully claim to live in situations where there lives are in danger. But there are tens of millions -- maybe even hundreds -- who can plausibly lie about such danger. A famous example of the latter is Amadou Diallo, who won refugee status by claiming that his parents had been killed in ethnic conflict in Africa. The same parents who showed up for his funeral.
If we open our doors the way Mr. Kristof and his allies want, we will eventually end up with far more frauds than true refugees, including many of the criminals and extremists that are causing all the trouble. Mr. Kristof seems to be OK with this, but many of us are not. The primary purpose of borders is to defend against chaos in foreign lands, and that is exactly the situation we are facing now. My belief is that it is going to get much, much worse, so my vote is going to go to whoever is the biggest hardass on immigration. Right now that's Trump, who is an ignorant and embarrassing clown, but I'm probably going to vote for him anyway based on this issue alone.
If we open our doors the way Mr. Kristof and his allies want, we will eventually end up with far more frauds than true refugees, including many of the criminals and extremists that are causing all the trouble. Mr. Kristof seems to be OK with this, but many of us are not. The primary purpose of borders is to defend against chaos in foreign lands, and that is exactly the situation we are facing now. My belief is that it is going to get much, much worse, so my vote is going to go to whoever is the biggest hardass on immigration. Right now that's Trump, who is an ignorant and embarrassing clown, but I'm probably going to vote for him anyway based on this issue alone.
207
Up here in Canada we also have a soft heart for immigrants. We recently allowed 35,000 Syrian refugees to comer to Canada "ahead of the line", and in this case justifiably so. In this case, the Syrians "moved ahead of the line".
However!
If you are a very rich person, and can authenticate and I assume swear (and notarize) that you have something like $ 500,000.00, you get a "go to the head of the immigration line".
Other immigrants who are not in an emergency, or who don't have half a million dollars, have to wait years to enter Canada, if at all.
Immigration is supposed to be equal, and justice wears a covering over her eye, but where is the justice and equality for all?
Unfortunately, these young children do deserve to move ahead of the line, for if we cannot take care of the youngest unfortunate of the world, what does it say about us?
Et justitiam in omnes
(and justice for all)
However!
If you are a very rich person, and can authenticate and I assume swear (and notarize) that you have something like $ 500,000.00, you get a "go to the head of the immigration line".
Other immigrants who are not in an emergency, or who don't have half a million dollars, have to wait years to enter Canada, if at all.
Immigration is supposed to be equal, and justice wears a covering over her eye, but where is the justice and equality for all?
Unfortunately, these young children do deserve to move ahead of the line, for if we cannot take care of the youngest unfortunate of the world, what does it say about us?
Et justitiam in omnes
(and justice for all)
5
(sigh) Yes. I would never vote for Trump because he's too reminiscent of demagogues who promised to make the trains run on time and ended up destroying their nations. But I understand how you feel. The failure of our feckless establishment to recognize this issue and the related issue of globalization may very well lead to a Trump victory, with all that that entails -- and if there is no Trump victory, to a continuation of the transformation of this country into a failed third world state.
3
So you would be perfectly happy to destroy (what's left of) this country in order to take comfort in having a ignorant, big mouth bully bellowing on the border.
3
Nick -- migration is a business -- a big business -- even bigger than drugs. Do you really know any of those people you (or your assistants) interviewed? Allowing young migrant children to remain in this country will only make a bad situation worse. We would in effect taking resources away from our own needful populations. Allowing "special cases" to remain will only encourage many more to attempt the journey. There is no conceivable way the US can care for what would be millions of arrivals. The American taxpayers will tolerate this, either. There is going to be an election this November. A tidal wave of migrants landing on our borders will surely give us a president none of us want. Let Latin America solve its own problems. We have more than enough problems at,home to solve.
184
I'm certain that you would agree that we are not our brother's keeper. It's every man for himself. The devil take the hindmost.
Does it concern you that it is the illegal trade which feeds our enormous apatite for drugs here in the U.S.A. that gives rise to these gangs? The murders and rapes of children are just an unfortunate byproduct of our busy lives. No concern?
Does it concern you that it is the illegal trade which feeds our enormous apatite for drugs here in the U.S.A. that gives rise to these gangs? The murders and rapes of children are just an unfortunate byproduct of our busy lives. No concern?
2
Maureen ********* there is no way the migration is a bigger business than the illegal drug trade. Not even close.
3
Our policies are a very large reason Latin America is not able to "solve its own problems". Hillary backed an illegal coup of an elected leader in Honduras and opened the door for mayhem. She bears some responsibility. American multinational corporations need to stop treating Latin America as their plantation. We need to send aid and not the military kind.
2
Thank you for exposing the reality of the families and children who are in mortal danger. I agree that if this were happening elsewhere in the world the U.S. would denounce the efforts of deportation. It would seem the countries must work from within to bring control to their people by eradicating gang groups. Secondly, if people have cause to flee to safety as the few people you wrote about obviously have/had, the U.S. should support their need for safety and in conjunction with Mexico or Central American countries, find them sanctuary and safety. It is inhumane to send any person back to a place they will be murdered. As you stated, the U.S. must then be held accountable as our government is complicit in the murders. We need to talk about this subject more...main stream media does not cover these stories!
39
Well, Nicholas, you graphically depict the problem. What are some solutions? Aye, there's the rub because you also say, and I agree, we can't open our borders to all people south of the Rio Grande. It's the same the world over, people are unable to defend themselves. France has very, very strict gun control laws---that's working out so well. Arm the populace?
Some possible solutions? Invest in training the armies (pay them well) of the affected countries to take on and defeat the gangs. Likely cheap at twice the price. Encourage people to be the eyes and ears of the government to help take down the gangs. Make it possible for peaceful people to stay and have a decent life.
Co-opt the gang members into a decent life, supporting their basic needs with food, clothing, shelter and education so they can become productive members of their society. Ask Mexico to help support that with their oil wealth and taxing of their oligarchs. The have one of the richest men in the world there.
Support Mexico, corrupt as it is, to develop refugee camps in their southern areas and begin to integrate the refugees into their own populations. Problem: so many are already poor and fecund. It will take many billions and lots of education on birth control, education of the existing children, etc.
Recognize that life is basically unfair, from a human perspective. Be willing to shrug our shoulders and keep the current policy. We cannot save the world.
Some possible solutions? Invest in training the armies (pay them well) of the affected countries to take on and defeat the gangs. Likely cheap at twice the price. Encourage people to be the eyes and ears of the government to help take down the gangs. Make it possible for peaceful people to stay and have a decent life.
Co-opt the gang members into a decent life, supporting their basic needs with food, clothing, shelter and education so they can become productive members of their society. Ask Mexico to help support that with their oil wealth and taxing of their oligarchs. The have one of the richest men in the world there.
Support Mexico, corrupt as it is, to develop refugee camps in their southern areas and begin to integrate the refugees into their own populations. Problem: so many are already poor and fecund. It will take many billions and lots of education on birth control, education of the existing children, etc.
Recognize that life is basically unfair, from a human perspective. Be willing to shrug our shoulders and keep the current policy. We cannot save the world.
66
In 2009 there was a military coup in Honduras. It is now considered the most dangerous country in the world. This is state sponsored violence, not just "gang" violence. Read about Berta Caceras.
IObama is not concerned about this region of the world, our own hemisphere.
IObama is not concerned about this region of the world, our own hemisphere.
1
The armies support the gangs. The cartels give the corrupt governments money.
2
France is far safer to live in than the US
4
With Gratitude to Nicholas Kristof for his sensitivity. This 79 year old man fears most will not want to read the painful reality some are living, or dying through.
I spent my active life counseling and serving many in varied areas of need. I feel helplessly out of touch....merely being a spectator to such heartless violence and personal destruction. We need to know the Elenas of the world and the dynamics of their plight. I will try to reach some level of "touch" in my world to be of some, though minimal, help.
I spent my active life counseling and serving many in varied areas of need. I feel helplessly out of touch....merely being a spectator to such heartless violence and personal destruction. We need to know the Elenas of the world and the dynamics of their plight. I will try to reach some level of "touch" in my world to be of some, though minimal, help.
89
@R.DEFOREST: Rather than "reach some level of touch," why not spring for visas for the Elenas of this world, and take a Guatemalan family into your own home to set the good example for others?The rest is of tertiary importance.
4
The USDA reports that as recently as 2013, that 1 in 4 Black children are malnourished--starving to death right here in the United States. And if you want to look cool, intellectual and globally connected, there are children dying in Africa as the JV team Obama helped create in 2014, ISIS created a global network of radical Islamic terror.
Mr. Kristof never had that conversation as a child when the parent sits you down, wipes your tears and explains "Mommy and Daddy don't have the money for everything..."
Just as America no longer has the resources to play world police, we also don't have the resources to play world orphanage and sanctuary for undocumented illegals.
Are there any Obama supporters who actually THINK before they speak or act?