Undermine Turkeys democracy? Is that a cruel joke or what?
3
"Something is rotten in Turkey," to paraphrase the old English bard. A staunch and notorious ally of the U.S. suddenly finds itself confronting a coup attempt out of the blue? And with Mr. Erdogan clearly not being one of the NY Times favorite leaders--could his regime's long-standing confrontation with Israel, that merciless North-American beachhead in the Middle East--have anything to do with this failed episode of regime change? Humm...
1
Hillary Clinton's emails testify -- or betray -- that Fetullah Gulen & a number of his followers made major (in total: 7 figure) $ donations to both her 2008 and 2016 campaigns. Given Gulen's close collaboration with Erdogan for many years prior to their schism in December 2013, it is pretty much unthinkable that the then Turkish PM was not himself apprised as a matter of course of Gulen's success in cultivating influence with a certain US POTUS candidate. But, in any case, Erdogan & Co. are bound to learn via the emails of the 'elective affinity' long existing between HRC and Gulen. And this would likely prove disastrous in NATO & US / Turkey relations if HRC were ever to be coronated in November, seeing as Erdogan is now 100% convinced that Gulen & his followers are the true authors, operating at long distance in the USA, of the violent coup against him. It has also to be factored in, though, that any number of Turks, both secular and AKP, have long had some good reason for believing that the Gulenist organization was once financed, and hence the man is nowadays sheltered in the US, by the CIA. And hence the basis for Erdogan's deep animosity -- or paranoia, if you prefer -- toward the USA, which these days goes ever deeper for undoubtedly he suspects the CIA of being the true spiritus rector of the attempted coup and Gulen's Hizmet organization as its ready proxy.
3
"likely to undercut Turkey’s democracy"?
The Times would prefer the democracy-turned-anarchy in Egypt? THAT worked out so well! And it also created a haven for extremists, terrorists, and general lawlessness.
Considering the sad state of OUR OWN "democracy" (widely termed an oligarchy, kleptocracy, and utterly broken system), perhaps we should stop telling the rest of the world how to run their "democracy" and concentrate on fixing OUR OWN? Assuming it's not beyond repair!
The Times would prefer the democracy-turned-anarchy in Egypt? THAT worked out so well! And it also created a haven for extremists, terrorists, and general lawlessness.
Considering the sad state of OUR OWN "democracy" (widely termed an oligarchy, kleptocracy, and utterly broken system), perhaps we should stop telling the rest of the world how to run their "democracy" and concentrate on fixing OUR OWN? Assuming it's not beyond repair!
6
The Obama Administration and NATO allies must demand that Turkey cease the grounding of US military aircraft and missions into Syria.
This ban should be seen as deliberate support of ISIS by Erdogan and should this ban linger on for more than a few days, this solidifies the weakness of this administration.
This ban should be seen as deliberate support of ISIS by Erdogan and should this ban linger on for more than a few days, this solidifies the weakness of this administration.
2
Israel, threatened as it is on all sides by tens of thousands of rockets, mortars and missiles and sworn enemies itching to use them, looks like Paradise Island today compared to Turkey.
Thank you Mr. Netanyahu and the IDF and the people of Israel for keeping it that way.
Thank you Mr. Netanyahu and the IDF and the people of Israel for keeping it that way.
2
Isn't it interesting how dictators make elections look Democratic?
2
Erdogan is an Islamofascist.
Turkey under Erdogan needs to be dropped from NATO.
Turkey under Erdogan needs to be dropped from NATO.
8
Is Erdogan about to commit an act of mass murder on a grand scale? How will NATO react? The EU? The US?
10
Sounds like the end of democracy in Turkey. When Mr. Erdogan uses a failed military coup to remove 2,745 judges, you know the democratic bedrock of "the rule of law" has ended and been usurped by the arrival, as was increasingly apparent, of another Middle East Islamic dictator. The major question for the U.S. is how Mr. Erdogan will respond to increasing demands by his NATO partners for a more forceful stance against ISIS? Mr. Erdogan has been more concerned about the ongoing problem with Turkey's Kurds and his fears that a Kurdish state or enclave in Syria would exacerbate that problem. Of course. it could also solve it if a semi-autonomous Kurdish province in Syria, perhaps with some minor border adjustments, became the new homeland for Turkish Kurds. It may be time for the U.S. and Russia to propose a peace plan for putting together the Syrian jigsaw puzzle that would end the civil war by gaining Turkey's full cooperation and thereby setting the stage for the elimination of ISIS there and in Iraq.
1
This won't end well.
Just like everything else in the region in the past 15 years.
Just like everything else in the region in the past 15 years.
3
I see Erdogan has responded with his own Night of the Long Knives.
2
This whole thing must have been planned by Erdogan. It was all too easy, too quick, too much immediate religious and middle class people support - especially in a western and sophisticated place like Istanbul people don't want to get killed to show their love for Erdogan. Did the CIA know about this; Obama seemed surprised which is very odd.
3
This may not be the last coup.
1
“This uprising is a gift from God to us because this will be a reason to cleanse our army.”
"That Gift from God" must have come in a Russian Doll like Package, with each doll containing a list of Mr Erdogan Opponents( The military, The Judiciary, Mr Gullen, Etc...
It took Mr Erdogan less than 24 hours to name all the people responsible for the attempt Coup. But somehow his Administration could not stop it from happening. Mr Erdogan is not the first Dictator who uses an attempt Coup to consolidate his Power.
"That Gift from God" must have come in a Russian Doll like Package, with each doll containing a list of Mr Erdogan Opponents( The military, The Judiciary, Mr Gullen, Etc...
It took Mr Erdogan less than 24 hours to name all the people responsible for the attempt Coup. But somehow his Administration could not stop it from happening. Mr Erdogan is not the first Dictator who uses an attempt Coup to consolidate his Power.
10
Coup or counter-coup, Turkey is not the kind of ally the US and Europe should want. Its attacks on the Kurds, both in southern Turkey and our allies in Syria are monstrous.
4
The model for Islamic Democracy has perhaps been in Tunisia. Where else? The UK will leave the EU and Turkey will join?
Putin is the only winner here so far.
Putin is the only winner here so far.
1
If a small group of junior officers in the US military rolled tanks down the streets of Washington DC, trying to force Obama out of office, would you then write editorials about the need of for Obama and our federal government to go easy on the those who tried to overthrow our legitimately elected leaders, would you then write and posit how we all need to go on those who attacked our government and disregarded the will of the American people? It seems editorial is typical. We have white racist who rise to power and abuse black people on a regular basis in America and it is fine with the NY Times, but when a Muslim wins election in Turkey, he's a tyrant, no matter how many elections he wins and when his enemies roll tanks down the center of government power in an attempt to use force to overturn the will of Turkey's voters, it's President Erdogan who's shedding blood?
2
Turkey has not been a democracy for several years now. Erdogan jails his opposition and supports IS in its war against Kurds and Assad by trading oil and allowing terrorist fighters free passage and refuge. Erdogan is the Islamic dictator of the new dark age. We are in deep trouble with this so-called ally. We had a chance to help the generals unseat him, but our leader is too sick and confused. We'd be better off leaving him to the Russians.
2
Are we witnessing the beginning of another "purge and cleansing" on Turkish soil in less than a hundred years ?
The detaining of thousands of prosecutors and judges, should be taken by the international community as more than overtaking of a military coup attempt, but martial law in the name of democracy.....
The detaining of thousands of prosecutors and judges, should be taken by the international community as more than overtaking of a military coup attempt, but martial law in the name of democracy.....
1
Please expand on "ties between the American military and Turkish military"
2
If you are stating that strong -arming the voters, fixing and election and muffling the press a fairly held , democratically elected the dictator, Erdogan, you would seem to have misspoken, as had Obama, Kerry and the whole gang.
Turkey has never been a democracy. Last night the country oscillated between Islamic-fascism and military fascism. Using mosques to urge people to resist the coup attempt was like a rehearsal of an Islamic coup. People who took to the streets had nothing to do with democracy; they were IS sympathizers who lynched some plane soldiers. They are like para-military troops of Erdogan to establish Sharia law. On the other hand, Erdogan never wants IS to lose power, because they are instrumental for him against the Kurds and Assad. USA and EU should not identify Turkey and Turks with Erdogan. Erdogan for us is like a foreign power who represents IS mentality.
He is the one who aggravated immigration crisis from Syria. He wishes to destabilize and Islamise Europe. Now he will use this coup attempt to turn the country into open totalitarianism.
He is the one who aggravated immigration crisis from Syria. He wishes to destabilize and Islamise Europe. Now he will use this coup attempt to turn the country into open totalitarianism.
7
Could it be clearer to anyone who is even barely aware of the precarious and worsening state of world affairs that the next president of the United States must be from the start, up to speed on numerous, complicated and dangerous areas all over the world, not to mention international terrorism?
Either you see the obvious choice for POTUS in Hillary Clinton or you are seeing the world in a distorted, dishonest and unreal manner.
Either you see the obvious choice for POTUS in Hillary Clinton or you are seeing the world in a distorted, dishonest and unreal manner.
2
With Turkey in the hands of an ego-obsessed narcissist who lives in a1000-room palace and rages against ethnic minorities, it would be hard to think of an American leader he could relate to.
Oh, wait...
Oh, wait...
4
I’m afraid this successful counter-coup will make Mr. Erdogan even more obstinate, autocratic and paranoid. He is even demanding the extradition of Mr. Gulen.
He knows his worth and he is willing to use it to shape Turkey to his liking. What can the west do to soften him? Nothing. The coup and how managed to quash it remotely bodes ill for Turkey and its future.
He knows his worth and he is willing to use it to shape Turkey to his liking. What can the west do to soften him? Nothing. The coup and how managed to quash it remotely bodes ill for Turkey and its future.
1
The failure of the military coup in Turkey will definitely strengthen the hands of Mr. Erdogan, who will likely purge its ranks of his perceived opponents and fill them with his supporters. The question is whether Mr. Erdogan will become more authoritarian and more Islamist or simply more authoritarian? If it’s the latter, he’d become more like President Sisi of Egypt, who is wary of the Islamists in his country.
From a U.S. standpoint, the unfortunate truth is that we have better relationships with non-Islamist authoritarian leaders such as Sisi. As a result, Egypt has been relatively calm during the current turmoil being caused by ISIS in the Middle East. If Erdogan recognizes that his military was probably getting nervous about the growing number of ISIS-inspired attacks within Turkey, he might not look for revenge within its ranks and instead focus their energies on the larger problem around Turkey’s borders.
On a recent visit to Istanbul, it struck me that Turkey literally and metaphorically bridges the east-west divide. Also, Turkey is a key western ally and it would be sad to see it become an unstable autocratic nation during these critical times. Let’s hope that Erdogan sees the forest for the trees and rises to the occasion as a strong yet calm leader.
From a U.S. standpoint, the unfortunate truth is that we have better relationships with non-Islamist authoritarian leaders such as Sisi. As a result, Egypt has been relatively calm during the current turmoil being caused by ISIS in the Middle East. If Erdogan recognizes that his military was probably getting nervous about the growing number of ISIS-inspired attacks within Turkey, he might not look for revenge within its ranks and instead focus their energies on the larger problem around Turkey’s borders.
On a recent visit to Istanbul, it struck me that Turkey literally and metaphorically bridges the east-west divide. Also, Turkey is a key western ally and it would be sad to see it become an unstable autocratic nation during these critical times. Let’s hope that Erdogan sees the forest for the trees and rises to the occasion as a strong yet calm leader.
The US should just leave the entire ME. These people will never ever be civilized or secular. The amount of blood and treasure we have wasted to protect Israel and the flow of oil could have made our country energy self sufficient decades ago. Let China and India protect the flow of oil.
3
To anyone vaguely familiar with events going on in Turkey, this recent "Coup-Counter-Coup", is hardly surprising.
In fact; it the only thing amazing, is that it hasn't happened before now.
And to those who think that Mr. Erdogan has anything less than a strangle- hold on his authority, as well as a steadfast aversion to Human Rights --the proof is now before you: Aside from the Military and his supporters, only a few Turkish citizens (whom he has consistently oppressed), actually came out in support of his defense.
There is no doubt that this "Coup" will have numerus after-shocks in both Turkey, and around the world: Starting with the systematic mass-eradication of those "upstarts" found not only in the Military and private sector, but in the Judiciary as well.
And in the end, the World shall have to tread both lightly, and carefully around Turkey and Mr. Erdogan, who has managed to make some quite formidable enemies on his own; starting with the PKP/Kurdish faction, the Saudis, Mr. Putin and the Russians, the EU that is both hostage and beneficiary to his Syrian-refugee agreement -- and of course, NATO...which is still dependent on Turkey's geographically strategic position in order to conduct its operations both in Syria, and throughout the region.
What happens now, and where it goes from here, is anyone's guess.
The only thing for certain is that Turkey's citizens will be paying for it.
In fact; it the only thing amazing, is that it hasn't happened before now.
And to those who think that Mr. Erdogan has anything less than a strangle- hold on his authority, as well as a steadfast aversion to Human Rights --the proof is now before you: Aside from the Military and his supporters, only a few Turkish citizens (whom he has consistently oppressed), actually came out in support of his defense.
There is no doubt that this "Coup" will have numerus after-shocks in both Turkey, and around the world: Starting with the systematic mass-eradication of those "upstarts" found not only in the Military and private sector, but in the Judiciary as well.
And in the end, the World shall have to tread both lightly, and carefully around Turkey and Mr. Erdogan, who has managed to make some quite formidable enemies on his own; starting with the PKP/Kurdish faction, the Saudis, Mr. Putin and the Russians, the EU that is both hostage and beneficiary to his Syrian-refugee agreement -- and of course, NATO...which is still dependent on Turkey's geographically strategic position in order to conduct its operations both in Syria, and throughout the region.
What happens now, and where it goes from here, is anyone's guess.
The only thing for certain is that Turkey's citizens will be paying for it.
2
"One might hope that this desperate uprising might prompt him to reach out to his opponents..."
I don't think I am exaggerating in saying that hope has never happened in history as the result of an attempted coup so it shouldn't be expected from Mr. Erdogan.
I don't think I am exaggerating in saying that hope has never happened in history as the result of an attempted coup so it shouldn't be expected from Mr. Erdogan.
1
For a while now it has been depressing to see a great country like Turkey which seemed finally to have found a path to modernity slipping backwards into authoritariansim and intolerance. This failed coup will only accelerate this process.
It is hard to know where this will all lead, but one cannot but suspect that whoever it is, it is nowhere good.
It is hard to know where this will all lead, but one cannot but suspect that whoever it is, it is nowhere good.
4
Mr. Erdogan "purged the judiciary of 2,745 judges". What did these judges have to do with the military coup attempt?
5
Erdogan's autocratic rule can now be expected to increase in its attempt to further remove what's left of the secular government left by Atatürk for the Republic of Turkey, similar to the way Hitler and the Nazis changed the Weimar Constitution in their take over of Germany in the 1930's. Here this means repealing democratic secularism and substituting Islamic dictatorial rule with Erdogan as the country's absolute ruler. The end of Freedom of Speech and of the Press has already caused his prisons to hold a great number of citizens for trying to exercise those rights, as well as members of the Justice Ministry seeking to expose the graft and corruption of his regime. Furthermore, he is trying to change the constitution of Turkey to facilitate his rise to become the "Caliph" as in Ottoman theocratic times. And this ambition of his will know no bounds if Al-Assad is ousted in Syria and he succeeds in eradicating our brave allies, the Kurds.
Couldn't happen, you think? - Let's hope not. But President Obama's timid and even coy support of the Kurds is perplexing, if not a policy to appease Erdogan. The EU has agreed to shameful financial blackmail by Turkey to temporarily hold Middle Eastern immigrants so they won't settle in Europe for now.
In Turkey, Islamist Erdogan is leading his country away from democratic secularism (as we have in the West) and into the embrace of a religious theocracy headed by himself - it's the last thing we need in that part of the world right now!
Couldn't happen, you think? - Let's hope not. But President Obama's timid and even coy support of the Kurds is perplexing, if not a policy to appease Erdogan. The EU has agreed to shameful financial blackmail by Turkey to temporarily hold Middle Eastern immigrants so they won't settle in Europe for now.
In Turkey, Islamist Erdogan is leading his country away from democratic secularism (as we have in the West) and into the embrace of a religious theocracy headed by himself - it's the last thing we need in that part of the world right now!
5
My god, didn't the coup leaders read "Up-raisings 101"? The first step in any successful coup is to apprehend the leader of the government being overthrown. And also the #2 & #3.
What an amateurish job! Any number of skilled advisors could have been recruited from a number of South American countries or even Pakistan. It is a pity that plotters were unsuccessful, but given their ineptitude, not surprising.
What an amateurish job! Any number of skilled advisors could have been recruited from a number of South American countries or even Pakistan. It is a pity that plotters were unsuccessful, but given their ineptitude, not surprising.
1
The outpouring of the populace into the streets at the urging of Erdogan and the imams at Friday prayers would seem to underscore that secularism is dead in Turkey and that it has become an Islamist state. No surprise then for its almost-completely undisguised support of the jihadists.
1
2700 judges were identified within minutes of the "coup" and dismissed ? how can anyone be that efficient? Now that democracy is breaking out in Turkey because of heroic operation of the government the media freedom will surely flourish! Or not.
3
The Turks have just destroyed their country for
a long time to come. I hope Mr. Erdogan turns out to be worth it.
a long time to come. I hope Mr. Erdogan turns out to be worth it.
2
Come on, you guys of the E Board can not be that naive; the folk who battled the rebel soldiers were not pro-democracy; they were the shock mobs of the AK party, very hard line Islamists.
Of course democracy is going to near disappear after the coup's failure - too bad it failed. It reminds me of Cuba during and after the Bay of Pigs disaster: Castro arrested 100,000 is 2 days. Turkey will follow that road now.
For the US there is an additional problem: We hold Mr. Gulen more or less the same as whe sheltered the Shah of Iran in 1979. I am getting a bad vibe from the Turkish leader and they want Mr. Gulen back home. May be Erdogan decides to use his shock troops again and hold a bunch of Americans there until we send Gulen back. He could also deny use of their bases, close the Dardanelles, etc.
Then what?
Erdogan sees it as we are giving refuge to his nemesis. Of course sending Gulen back is out of the question; it would be a humilliation for the US.
Of course democracy is going to near disappear after the coup's failure - too bad it failed. It reminds me of Cuba during and after the Bay of Pigs disaster: Castro arrested 100,000 is 2 days. Turkey will follow that road now.
For the US there is an additional problem: We hold Mr. Gulen more or less the same as whe sheltered the Shah of Iran in 1979. I am getting a bad vibe from the Turkish leader and they want Mr. Gulen back home. May be Erdogan decides to use his shock troops again and hold a bunch of Americans there until we send Gulen back. He could also deny use of their bases, close the Dardanelles, etc.
Then what?
Erdogan sees it as we are giving refuge to his nemesis. Of course sending Gulen back is out of the question; it would be a humilliation for the US.
6
A democracy is hard work. An autocracy is not.
In a democracy citizens should be able to act independently, think rationally, believe morally.
In an autocracy there is always someone to tell you what to do, what to think, what to believe. For very many what's not to like?
In a democracy citizens should be able to act independently, think rationally, believe morally.
In an autocracy there is always someone to tell you what to do, what to think, what to believe. For very many what's not to like?
2
The number of those killed keep appearing in different news stories. Some of us have not gotten over the 50-plus slaughter in Orlando. Old news by now but not forgotten. We are not numb hearing of the estimated 265 people killed in the attempted coup following the Nice slaughter. May we never take such figures detailing mortalities as just another tally and not be stricken by 'the wages of war'. As for the attempted coup in Turkey, history may show that it became a victory.
1
If the United States holds “absolute support for Turkey’s democratically-elected, civilian government and democratic institutions,” then it cannot possibly support the Erdogan government which itself stands in opposition to "Turkey’s democratically-elected, civilian government and democratic institutions.”
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
3
I am sickened about this situation. Having been in Istanbul recently we did NOT witness or hear support for Erdogan, just the opposite. And unless the US and other western governments know that the army faction initiating the coup was an islamic faction or non-democracy leaning they should not have spoken up in defense of the 'democratically elected' president - who has turned democracy on its head to further his personal wealth and position. To play word games using 'democracy' to define this government, when Erdogan was about to purge the military and pave the constitutional path to become a dictator, is just wrong. That support from the west simply legitimizes his right to do what ever he wants as a ruthless suppressor of civil and human rights.
1
Recep Tayyip Erdogan is a democratically elected official. If the people of Turkey actually didn't approve of his "hard" tactics and his islamic agendas, then they could have easily voted him out. They didn't and that seems to suggest that Erdogan is exactly what the people of Turkey want.
1
The Editorial Board has correctly described the beneficiary of this attempted coup, and how Erdogan will use his "good fortune" to consolidate his authoritarian control of Turkey.
But the Board shied away from invoking the principle the beneficiary of a crime is the prime suspect as perpetrator. And the presumptive suspicion is handsomely supported by the reported facts of the coup attempt. History and common sense tells us that no serious military coup would neglect to immediately secure control of the media and arrest government and military leaders likely to oppose the coup. And if that evidence weren't enough, Erdogan's response of removing judges unrelated to the military from an obviously pre-prepared list surely tips the balance in favor of the prime suspect as probably the actual perpetrator.
But the Board shied away from invoking the principle the beneficiary of a crime is the prime suspect as perpetrator. And the presumptive suspicion is handsomely supported by the reported facts of the coup attempt. History and common sense tells us that no serious military coup would neglect to immediately secure control of the media and arrest government and military leaders likely to oppose the coup. And if that evidence weren't enough, Erdogan's response of removing judges unrelated to the military from an obviously pre-prepared list surely tips the balance in favor of the prime suspect as probably the actual perpetrator.
3
While there is apparently no evidence to support it at this time, the theory that Erdogan, himself, organized and masterminded to abortive coup has great logic to support it. The coup was among the most inept in recent times and showed an amazing lack of preparation, planning, leadership and organization. It is hard to believe that serious military officers would risk their lives on such a haphazard scheme. Erdogan, on the other hand now has the license he wanted to stifle all dissent and remove all political adversaries as traitors. He could not have asked for a better outcome if he had staged the affair himself. Maybe he did.
2
As disappointing of a leader as Erdogan proves, and painful as it will be to watch his iron fist press even harder, the US would be wrong to intervene in Turkey's political situation. The facts remain that America does not interfere with the governance of any number of undemocratic nations, including China and Saudi Arabia, and that we cannot exert our will over other nations' leadership. We have to deal with our own citizens at home and existential threats from abroad. The worst mistake would be kicking a new hornet's nest trying to fertilize democracy worldwide.
I had the pleasure of living and working in Istanbul from 2011-2014. Everyone of my friends and colleagues would leave their beloved country if they were able to secure employment and bring their families to the US. I watched with increasing horror the targeting of corporations and individuals who did not dance to Erdogan's tune. The marginalization of women during the time I lived there was astounding. As one of my Turkish friends said to me this morning when I called to see how he and his family were holding up "perhaps a coup is not the preferred way to change a government but what other options do we have now." Sooner rather than later Erdogan has to go or this once vibrant secular democracy will be forever lost.
2
The West appears to be disappointed at the failure of a truly unethical, undemocratic event that is a military takeover. Despite his shortcomings, and they are not as many as the West leads one to believe, Erdogan is still a democratically elected leader who has won successive elections and even re-elections after the earlier ones were cast into doubt. The West should learn to respect Turkish public opinion, which is the real soul of democracy. Harping on the democracy string while abetting coups has already revealed the bigotry of the West.
1
I would not be surprised if Mr Erdogan planned this himself. I am still perplexed that in an army of more than a million --if I am not mistaking-- 2500 or 3000 soldiers thought that they could kick that authoritarian president out of power. In the same token, Mr Erdogan is preferable to having an unstable, chaotic Turkey. It borders with Europe on the west and Syria and Iraq on the east. So its strategic importance is vast. Maybe Turkey had its 21st century "Reichstag Fire" but one thing is for sure: Democracy in Turkey will be weakened. The army will be purged. Mr Erdogan will get stronger and he will surely get his executive presidency.
1
One more reason that the phrase "Mission Accomplished" will go down as the greatest overstatement in our history. Right up there with "All men are created equal".
A terribly inspired and incompetently enacted "coup" in the name of "democracy" which will only turn the remnants of that benighted country into a graveyard for coup plotters and democrats, alike.
We, and Europe, depend on places like the military dictatorship in Egypt and a now thoroughly compromised democracy like Turkey to do the filthy, despicable work for us that we've left behind all across the Middle East and are surprised when we only wind up incinerating the democratic forces we claim to support.
We, and Europe, depend on places like the military dictatorship in Egypt and a now thoroughly compromised democracy like Turkey to do the filthy, despicable work for us that we've left behind all across the Middle East and are surprised when we only wind up incinerating the democratic forces we claim to support.
It says a great deal about Erdogan's government that purging the judiciary was one of his first acts following a military coup. Seriously? The coup was clearly the wrong thing to do, but Erdogan's authoritarian tendencies need to be restrained and this event should be viewed as an ill-advised act of desperation by people who saw secular Turkey and the rule of law slipping away amid suppression of dissent, suppression of the press, and suppression of the courts. We all need to remember that democracy requires more than elections; it requires the rule of law, effective separation of powers, and free expression of ideas and opinions. Preserving these things in Turkey will require some action by the international community. It's a disgrace to have a NATO member that does not maintain the rule of law and respect for basic human rights.
7
This was either a very ill planned attempt or just a hoax. The perpetrators never attempted to capture or harm Erdogan, or indeed any political figure. Instead they closed down the Bosphorus bridge, Ataturk airport and bombed mostly empty gov't buildings. Erdogan never seemed to be under any threat as he made several media appearances while the "coup" was underway and he flew from Marmaris to Istanbul while F-16s were airborne bombing places. None of his media outlets and TVs were closed, they just kept broadcasting and calling people to the streets. To this date the army seemed to be the last stronghold yet to submit to Erdogan's authority. He will use this as the perfect excuse to reshuffle and reorganize the military as he wishes (already started!) and will emerge as a stronger dictator.
3
The reason Incirlik Air Base temporarily closed was some airplanes taking a role in the coup attempt and bombarding police SWAT Team headquarters in Ankara and doing low fly-overs at high speed over residential areas of Istanbul and Ankara as a part of psyops to scare ordinary people was being air-refueled by tanker planes taking off from that base. Regarding Mr. Gulen's denial of the coup attempt, I would love to ask him what one of his followers expelled from high ranking position inside police force was doing in camouflage uniforms inside a military tank which has taken part in the coup attempt, an example amongst many others.
1
You meant the bogus coup. Erdogan was in a safe place from the start, no top brass was involved, no ministers were taken hostage, the media was, for the most part, not a problem. Only a few bridges were taken. All the "military" were lower ranking soldiers who have been displeased with Erdogan's ruthless drive for power. He is a despot who will now kill all his opposition in the military in the name of State security, i.e. Erdogan. That was the purpose of the so-called "coup" - the counter-coup.
4
The events in Turkey remind me of Germany's Reichstag fire in 1933.
The alleged coup at best looks like a trap or at worst staged managed political theater to cement Erdogan’s authoritarian and increasing Islamic Fascist state.
“They will pay a heavy price for this,” Erdogan said, chillingly. “This uprising is a gift from God to us because this will be a reason to cleanse our army.”
Whether what took place is by plan or an act of opportunism the result will likely be the same an end to Ataturk’s secular and democratic vision for Turkey and the potential end of a reliable ally for NATO countries.
An interesting development that I would like to see reported on in more depth is the news that Turkey has suspended all US operations against ISIS at Incirlik Airbase and shut down power to the base.
There is also the strange coincidence that the alleged coup took place on America’s new commander’s first day at Incirlik Air Base, Turkey. Lt. Col. Shad Colgate assumed command of the 39th Maintenance Squadron during an assumption of command ceremony on July 14.
For years we have heard about the desire of terrorists to get a hold of nuclear weapons. The Incirlik Air Base in Turkey is one of six places in Europe where the US stores nuclear bombs.
Just food for thought…Did we just witness the failed attempt of a rogue nation trying to get hold of nuclear weapons under the fog of confusion sown by a failed coup?
The alleged coup at best looks like a trap or at worst staged managed political theater to cement Erdogan’s authoritarian and increasing Islamic Fascist state.
“They will pay a heavy price for this,” Erdogan said, chillingly. “This uprising is a gift from God to us because this will be a reason to cleanse our army.”
Whether what took place is by plan or an act of opportunism the result will likely be the same an end to Ataturk’s secular and democratic vision for Turkey and the potential end of a reliable ally for NATO countries.
An interesting development that I would like to see reported on in more depth is the news that Turkey has suspended all US operations against ISIS at Incirlik Airbase and shut down power to the base.
There is also the strange coincidence that the alleged coup took place on America’s new commander’s first day at Incirlik Air Base, Turkey. Lt. Col. Shad Colgate assumed command of the 39th Maintenance Squadron during an assumption of command ceremony on July 14.
For years we have heard about the desire of terrorists to get a hold of nuclear weapons. The Incirlik Air Base in Turkey is one of six places in Europe where the US stores nuclear bombs.
Just food for thought…Did we just witness the failed attempt of a rogue nation trying to get hold of nuclear weapons under the fog of confusion sown by a failed coup?
2
2,745 judges have already been purged, barely 24 hours since the attempted coup. My, "justice" is swift.
Oh, and I can't help but wonder how many of the foot soldiers were actually just following commands from superiors. Isn't that what any military is all about? How could a proposed coup had been kept secret if each of those young kids had been asked in advance whether or not he chose to participate? Military service is mandatory in Turkey. I've had Turkish students who dutifully served and had no choice about where they were being assigned. I see those wonderful young men in the terrified eyes of the captured soldiers - the photos of whippings with belts and god knows what else. How sad for these kids. Will they have the slightest chance at justice, or will they simply disappear forever?
Oh, and I can't help but wonder how many of the foot soldiers were actually just following commands from superiors. Isn't that what any military is all about? How could a proposed coup had been kept secret if each of those young kids had been asked in advance whether or not he chose to participate? Military service is mandatory in Turkey. I've had Turkish students who dutifully served and had no choice about where they were being assigned. I see those wonderful young men in the terrified eyes of the captured soldiers - the photos of whippings with belts and god knows what else. How sad for these kids. Will they have the slightest chance at justice, or will they simply disappear forever?
12
Now that Erdogan is demanding arrest or extradition of his former ally from Pennsylvania, I'm reminded of the recent cruel deal Erdogan had cut with Merkel, resulting in many innocent refugees being shipped back to Syria. He didn't care if they lived or died, as long as he'd get perks for himself - woops, I mean "for Turkey."
Dangling US access to Incirlik is now the gleaming carrot with which he'll attempt to manipulate others, irrespective of Turkey's huge potential to be the stopgap of Daesh terrorists into Europe, to be an actual democracy for its people, to remain stable and at peace.
Looks as if Mr. Trump has no copyright on narcissism.
Imagine both these ignoramuses in the same sandbox.
Dangling US access to Incirlik is now the gleaming carrot with which he'll attempt to manipulate others, irrespective of Turkey's huge potential to be the stopgap of Daesh terrorists into Europe, to be an actual democracy for its people, to remain stable and at peace.
Looks as if Mr. Trump has no copyright on narcissism.
Imagine both these ignoramuses in the same sandbox.
1
My fear with that we see with Turkey is the rise of the conformist state. Such have existed at times, for example Elizabethan England, where being Catholic entailed a loss of rights, and clerics were hunted down and killed.
In a conformist state, one has the choice of either getting with the program or leaving the country. Only politically correct people are tolerated. The rest can count on only a hard life at best.
Erdogan now has the green light to build his Islamist authoritarian state. If one is ethnic Turkish, adheres to the version of Islam sanctioned by the government, lives by its demands on one's life, and acts to support it, that person will likely be accepted. But for the rest, their best option would be emigration to a more tolerant country.
In a conformist state, one has the choice of either getting with the program or leaving the country. Only politically correct people are tolerated. The rest can count on only a hard life at best.
Erdogan now has the green light to build his Islamist authoritarian state. If one is ethnic Turkish, adheres to the version of Islam sanctioned by the government, lives by its demands on one's life, and acts to support it, that person will likely be accepted. But for the rest, their best option would be emigration to a more tolerant country.
2
No matter how bad Erdogan is, Gulen is worse. No matter how dangerous Erdogan is, Gulen is worse. We have been afraid of Erdogan, true, I moved away but that fear never goes away. But it is nothing comparing the kind of fear Gulen creates in me. Here, hundreds of kilometers away, no body cares about Erdogan. But Gulen has his people, his companies even here. So much money. So much power. So much invisibility. And I guess also, protection... One day, we can get rid of Erdogan. Maybe. But unless we defeat Gulen as well, we, the turkish people, will never be free.
3
Turkey has no future. It cannot decide whether it is secular/islamic/ European/middle eastern/democratic. It oppresses Kurds. It is on bad terms with just about every nation near and far. Most steadfast ally? Pakistan. That should tell us something.
Erdogan secretly dreams of a neo-Ottoman Caliphate but has nothing to offer his people today and in this life.
Erdogan's and Turkey's single utility is to help Germany stem predominantly Muslim refugees from freely entering 'Europe'. The previous contrived suitabilities having been put to bed.
A country at the epicenter without purpose that will belch rebellions to our detriment.
Erdogan secretly dreams of a neo-Ottoman Caliphate but has nothing to offer his people today and in this life.
Erdogan's and Turkey's single utility is to help Germany stem predominantly Muslim refugees from freely entering 'Europe'. The previous contrived suitabilities having been put to bed.
A country at the epicenter without purpose that will belch rebellions to our detriment.
1
I fear the United States secretly assisted or was aware of the coup; it would be a continuation of the practices of the United States in supporting (or employing a blind eye) to coups in foreign countries and now we may suffer the consequences. We must insist on presidential candidates who will pledge not to intervene and continue the tragedies of Lybia, Cuba and the rest of Latin America.
2
I saw on CNN that the Turkish military had zero interaction with USA intelligence and limited diplomatic interaction. Basically Turkey has opted out of the USA Iraq war by not allowing a northern access during the Bush years. I honestly believe the USA didn't know a thing. I mean if the president of Turkey didn't have a clue, it's pretty far fetched that our clunky intelligence apparatus knew anything. Turkey just set itself back about 20 years economically. The human rights abuses will make it impossible for Europe to be more inclusive. The USA will hold its nose and continue to wallow with them due to military needs but that's not going to help Turkey become a peaceful European state. A strong well trained military and a week democracy makes for tempting power grabs.
In due time this may turn out to be staged as a few commentators had already pointed out. A military that had staged coups fairly crisp and cleanly and gained and held control within a day with minimal bloodshed in the past cannot behave this ineptly. Why choose a Friday evening in the major cities when downtowns are bustling rather than in the early hours of the morning? Why not wait Sunday night? And the arrests include officers running ops or field exercises in the mountains, in rural areas, how would they supposed to maintain control and communications? And some of those arrested include retired officers and a few who had spoken out or texted messages against the coup? How come all the mosques in all provinces were so well prepared with announcements within minutes of gunfire and aircraft flying overheard? The government kept suffering setbacks and a call to investigate if Erdogan ever graduated from college captured the headlines for several weeks. The agreements wiyh and apologies to Russians etc. The AKP government needed their own Reichstag incident, it seems
6
A news article published with this Editorial suggests that Obama is insisting the US had nothing to do with this coup. It is unlikely the US had nothing to do with it, in a literal sense.
It is near certain that the huge US CIA presence knew something, and was understood to have winked at the effort, rather like it did in Honduras and Venezuela, denying what all know to be true.
It would be far better for US relations with Turkey if Obama delivered up the heads of those who are designated fall guys for a complete screw up by the CIA.
Obama is also insisting that Erdogan not overdo it in his response. That is lame, especially as Obama lies about the US role.
To moderate Erdogan's response, a house cleaning of our own involvement would help a lot.
But then, we would give up our ability to do it again, and those who totally screwed up would have to pay a price, which since Iraq we don't do.
This was a Bay of Pigs fiasco, and somebody has got to pay for it. There is no way out. It can only get worse until that is faced.
It is near certain that the huge US CIA presence knew something, and was understood to have winked at the effort, rather like it did in Honduras and Venezuela, denying what all know to be true.
It would be far better for US relations with Turkey if Obama delivered up the heads of those who are designated fall guys for a complete screw up by the CIA.
Obama is also insisting that Erdogan not overdo it in his response. That is lame, especially as Obama lies about the US role.
To moderate Erdogan's response, a house cleaning of our own involvement would help a lot.
But then, we would give up our ability to do it again, and those who totally screwed up would have to pay a price, which since Iraq we don't do.
This was a Bay of Pigs fiasco, and somebody has got to pay for it. There is no way out. It can only get worse until that is faced.
13
"Mr. Erdogan blamed the coup attempt on the followers of Fethullah Gulen, a Muslim cleric living in exile in Pennsylvania, "
While Erdogan is blaming Mr.Gulen, Mr.Gulen is saying that the whole coup was "staged" by the government it aimed to overthrow. This is what he said: according to the Guardian newspaper of UK: “I don’t believe that the world believes the accusations made by President Erdoğan,” “There is a possibility that it could be a staged". Mr.Erdogan is demanding the US government to send back Mr. Gulen to Turkey. I doubt the US government would do it even though It might complicate US/Turkey relations even further.
.
While Erdogan is blaming Mr.Gulen, Mr.Gulen is saying that the whole coup was "staged" by the government it aimed to overthrow. This is what he said: according to the Guardian newspaper of UK: “I don’t believe that the world believes the accusations made by President Erdoğan,” “There is a possibility that it could be a staged". Mr.Erdogan is demanding the US government to send back Mr. Gulen to Turkey. I doubt the US government would do it even though It might complicate US/Turkey relations even further.
.
8
There were many in the bubbles of DC and our media who wanted this coup, and who wanted it to succeed.
Now they want those who made the coup attempt to escape with minimal penalty or consequence, ready to do it again.
It won't be that easy. When you shoot at the king, you better get him. They shot, they missed, and now they pay.
Now they want those who made the coup attempt to escape with minimal penalty or consequence, ready to do it again.
It won't be that easy. When you shoot at the king, you better get him. They shot, they missed, and now they pay.
6
You just have to wonder about the recent Turkey events; but either way, it is either incompetence or worse
1
"In a statement late Friday, the United States emphasized its “absolute support for Turkey’s democratically-elected, civilian government and democratic institutions.”"
For how long? And to what extent, if Erdogan cracks down further? I also wonder how many responded to his call on FaceTime last night wanted to bring him back, not to "restore" democracy, but to further erode it.
If the army, which wanted to protect secularism, was beaten back, and is now being purged, what's to stop Erdogan from turning Turkey into more of a religious Muslim state? That would certainly make things even worse for Nato, not to mention the war on ISIS.
I'm sure this topic will come up in the Presidential debates. It will be interesting to see how nuanced their views are, given one of the candidate's promises to bomb ISIS into oblivion.
For how long? And to what extent, if Erdogan cracks down further? I also wonder how many responded to his call on FaceTime last night wanted to bring him back, not to "restore" democracy, but to further erode it.
If the army, which wanted to protect secularism, was beaten back, and is now being purged, what's to stop Erdogan from turning Turkey into more of a religious Muslim state? That would certainly make things even worse for Nato, not to mention the war on ISIS.
I'm sure this topic will come up in the Presidential debates. It will be interesting to see how nuanced their views are, given one of the candidate's promises to bomb ISIS into oblivion.
29
Nuanced views in the Presidential debates? I'm trying to imagine.
HRC will present a long detailed analysis of Turkey since Attaturk and the curbs on US action due to etc, etc, etc.
Trump will say Erdogan is "powerful, a powerful guy! I looked at buying a golf course there! Lots of sunshine! Nice tile work!"
HRC will present a long detailed analysis of Turkey since Attaturk and the curbs on US action due to etc, etc, etc.
Trump will say Erdogan is "powerful, a powerful guy! I looked at buying a golf course there! Lots of sunshine! Nice tile work!"
2
Turkish people is mostly moderate Muslims. Only some of the people are practising Muslims. No one can turn Turkey into radical country. Do not exaggerate Erdogan and his policies. Turkish people can easily change him if they feel anything wrong. If you read your media, things are seen rather different from the reality in Turkey.
1
It's ironic that that the coup failed so that "democracy" can prevail. Now we'll see further dictatorial carnage and autocratic rule, while the rule of law will be bent, so Erdogan can imprison and kill those who were in favor of more secular and open rule, so that real democracy could have a chance. Erdogan has modeled himself after Putin. He has learned well, how to oppress his his opposition under the guise of "democracy".
66
"Erdogan has modeled himself after Putin. He has learned well, how to oppress his his opposition under the guise of "democracy".
But isn't the USA an ally of Turkey or vice-versa?
But isn't the USA an ally of Turkey or vice-versa?
5
Turkey is a democratic country. The majority determines the government, as in the US. Naturally, there are people with different opinions. The opposition should work hard not illegally but democratically to be a good option for Turkish people.
If the next Turkish election is fair and democratic and elects Erdogan and his supporters we and the rest of the world will have to live with the Turks' decision and even if it isn't democratic and free the world will continue to recognize his government. ISIS will eventually be laid to rest, Turkey will not.
9
It is impossible to have a fair election if all the independent media and the judiciary have been gutted. Erdogan and his party may be the most popular choices right now, and they may remain so for a while. But the system he is building is clearly designed to keep him in power regardless of how popular opinion may shift in the future. The first step is to remove the visibility of political alternatives and the possibility of judicial recourse against the government. That way, you can preserve the illusion of free elections even as their actual value and potential to effect change are substantially diminished without the fairness component. But if that's not enough, Erdogan will go further and will get rid of the facade, too.
5
Erdogan has been jailing the opposition for the last two election cycles. Now we have a Islamic terror state as our NATO ally. Great leadership Mr. Obama!
3
“This uprising is a gift from God to us because this will be a reason to cleanse our army.”
Erdogan was always going to do it. Failing not only gave him the justification to completely refashion the military, but also the judiciary. Ironically, Erdogan's bent for reform flies against the tradition of the greatest of Turks, going back centuries. He brings regression, whereas many of his illustrious predecessors brought open-mindedness and progress.
Watching TV coverage yesterday, one of the talking heads reminded me of a saying: the middle class doesn't revolt. He's right and that is to the great misfortune of the people of Turkey.
Ataturk is spinning in his grave.
Erdogan was always going to do it. Failing not only gave him the justification to completely refashion the military, but also the judiciary. Ironically, Erdogan's bent for reform flies against the tradition of the greatest of Turks, going back centuries. He brings regression, whereas many of his illustrious predecessors brought open-mindedness and progress.
Watching TV coverage yesterday, one of the talking heads reminded me of a saying: the middle class doesn't revolt. He's right and that is to the great misfortune of the people of Turkey.
Ataturk is spinning in his grave.
90
Sir, Erdogan is borrowing just a few pages from Ataturk who replaced a multi-party parliamentary democracy with a single party Stalinist regime. He imposed needless and still unwanted so-called reforms on the country. Following show trials he hanged 1026 people including a professor who maintained it wasn't the president job to tell citizens what sort of headgear to wear a flat-crowned hat Ataturk imposed. Unlikr Ataturk, Erfogan has not -as yet- disbanded opposition parties nor has he locked up their leaders and that is a blessing.
1
Ataturk was no democrat with a Stalin like cult of personality. He also wasnt "secular" persecuting those who were pious as well as all others who could challenge him. Nice to see how you value democracy abroad only if it serves the agenda of your establishment here.
Exactly. The Ottomans brought harmony among the religions and peace and safety for the Middle East. They were the last enlightened Islamic leaders.
“This uprising is a gift from God to us because this will be a reason to cleanse our army.”
There are few greater horrors than divinely-inspired purges. In the reporting last night, it wasn't just Erdogan calling the people into the streets, but also the mosques and imams. None of this suggests Erdogan will be of real use in fighting ISIS, which is a far greater threat than democratic dissent.
There are few greater horrors than divinely-inspired purges. In the reporting last night, it wasn't just Erdogan calling the people into the streets, but also the mosques and imams. None of this suggests Erdogan will be of real use in fighting ISIS, which is a far greater threat than democratic dissent.
99
His rhetoric actually sounds a lot like Cruz, Pence and their ilk...
3
Don't forget that ISIS is a product of US policies in the Middle East. Turkey started to suffer from ISIS after joining the operations.
1
The US ought not to keep any functional nukes on Turkish soil. To do so is, in my opinion, next to insanity.
118
I agree!
2
The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists says we have 90 B61 bombs in Turkey today, of which 40 are allocated for delivery by the Turkish Air Force. The B61 is a thermonuclear bomb (H-bomb) of 340 kilotons. It is big, as such things go.
Apart from Turkey, a couple of them making their way to Iran would be a disaster. North Korea more so. If they get out of our control, wherever they wander could depend on who offers the best money.
That same report says that the aircraft now based there are not even capable of delivering them. They are in storage, not a serious preparation.
Store them somewhere else.
Apart from Turkey, a couple of them making their way to Iran would be a disaster. North Korea more so. If they get out of our control, wherever they wander could depend on who offers the best money.
That same report says that the aircraft now based there are not even capable of delivering them. They are in storage, not a serious preparation.
Store them somewhere else.
23
Such a vicious reach! Or a total ignominious ignorance of how "nukes" are kept and who controls them.
What is interesting to observe is that the members of the public (no idea if they are party cadres) waged a battle against the armed soldiers that could end up even a much bloodier massacre. These soldiers looked demoralized, dispassionate, unprofessional and very capitulating. Were they misguided by their seniors? If this is the real face of Turkish military, how are they going to fight the all-important fight to annihilate the IS?.I just hope that the military regains its honor. Most importantly they must earn back respect from the Turkish people and politicians. A dysfunctional army in Turkey is a very dangerous sign in the war on terror.NATO must reassess Turkish military prowess as a member.
Simultaneously, NATO and western leaders must reexamine Erdogan’ s commitment to fight the ISIS. A few days back the Turkish PM was interviewed (on BBC) where he said, in Syria, "ISIS and Assad must go together". He thinks that if ISIS is destroyed that would strengthen Assad’s power!! Hence, at least on the Face of it,Turkish role and commitment to fight ISIS militarily becomes questionable now after this failed coup that is only a symptom of a much bigger political uncertainty in Turkey.This aborted coup may make it harder to unitedly fight ISIS to oblivion. The failed coup must not fail Erdogan's role to fight ISIS.Fear is there!