Mr. Kristof, I applaud you for your courage to keep speaking up against this travesty of both white delusion and liberal's bigotry. It's a stance where you can easily be left out alone being attacked from both side but you decided to say the inconvenient truth. Thanks a gain!
68
How sad close to election time,again "the Democratic Party relies on the perceived reality of racism for the identity politics on which it feeds. Racism is the lifeline of the Democrats. Votes lie there.",write Roger Simon.The hypocrisy is stifling, how many people know the name James Moore 17,Marshawn Clinkscale 17,Victor Felix 16,Bryson Holman 2 months, Christopher Fields 17,Melvin Cook 16,Leonardo Betancourt 13,DeKayla Dansberry 16,just a cross section of the youngest killed in the last 2 months in Chicago,Illinois. Not a word. An entire generation of Black and Hispanic youth are terrified when they go out of their house it might be the last time.Not killed by a Cop! Not a Delusion Mr. Kristof and Not A Word.
39
Obama is biracial—it has been curious to me that he is most often referred to as black.
62
Mr. Kristof touches on an important aspect of human nature when he points out "how easy it is for a majority to 'otherize' minorities..." Humans instinctively, and often subconsciously, make snap judgments about strangers - are they friend or foe, dangerous or safe, us or -- them. The more different in appearance, speech or conduct, the more likely a stranger will be perceived as a potential threat. But humans have the ability to overcome our primal instincts by using the attributes that make us fully human: reason and compassion - "our better angels" as Lincoln so beautifully described them.
But I wonder if Mr. Kristof has himself engaged in "otherizing." He curtly dismisses whites who believe they are the subject of discrimination. Mr. Kristof needs to meet some of the people he dismisses. Maybe the family of a West Virginia coal miner whose job has fallen victim to global economic changes, whose community is beset by drug addiction, failing schools, intergenerational poverty, family dysfunction and hopelessness. These are the same problems that affect many black communities, and would continue to if every last vestige of racism were eradicated. They are class problems which cut across racial lines. Race-based affirmative action ignores that fact and widens our racial chasm. Should the daughter of the black surgeon Mr. Kristof writes of have an advantage in college admissions over the daughter of our white coal miner? I would like to hear Mr. Kristof's thoughts.
But I wonder if Mr. Kristof has himself engaged in "otherizing." He curtly dismisses whites who believe they are the subject of discrimination. Mr. Kristof needs to meet some of the people he dismisses. Maybe the family of a West Virginia coal miner whose job has fallen victim to global economic changes, whose community is beset by drug addiction, failing schools, intergenerational poverty, family dysfunction and hopelessness. These are the same problems that affect many black communities, and would continue to if every last vestige of racism were eradicated. They are class problems which cut across racial lines. Race-based affirmative action ignores that fact and widens our racial chasm. Should the daughter of the black surgeon Mr. Kristof writes of have an advantage in college admissions over the daughter of our white coal miner? I would like to hear Mr. Kristof's thoughts.
36
Discussions of race serve primarily as a smoke screen for class warfare. People who live in gated communities have a vested interest is obscuring the real issues
52
The black kids that went to high school with me had the exact same access to education as I did. Your complaint is that there aren't more well to do black families so the black children can go to the better schools. That has nothing to do with the policy, or racism. If you think that black people are poor because of white racists, you are wrong. Also it's an extremely easy way to shift all responsibility from black people who underachieve to whites who have no knowledge of their existence or any way to negatively impact it even if they wanted to.
75
Your current column provides vital information and important perspectives. I worked on the National Exhibit RACE: Are We So Different? that was created, designed and developed by the Science Museum of Minnesota. I keep a compelling statement about RACISM that provided the foundation for this exhibit. It's a powerful quote from Toni Morrison. I kept it on the wall of my office for the past 16 years. “The race thing is sort of a misnomer. It's just the human race, right? That's it. The rest of it, and racism, is socially constructed. Nobody is born racist, no one. What happens is other things that are usually based on power, money, feeling good about yourself, or bad about yourself, those things play into hating other people for whatever reason.” It is every human beings responsibility to work to put an end to Racism. If we don't, we will destroy our the human species. We must stop teaching and promoting racism.
38
Education is the key and, until public schools are funded equitably, all the rest is just talk.
Equal opportunity means good schools for all our children from pre-school through the end of high school, period. ALL children.
Equal opportunity means good schools for all our children from pre-school through the end of high school, period. ALL children.
31
Being an old white man from the south I see the blindness of the white folks who just don't recognize how long the row is we have to hoe to get where we think we are. They are delusional.
Take the Black Lives Matter movement. Most of these folks are out there saying this is wrong and bad because all live matter, which of course they do.
The deniers are big on pointing out the death toll in black on black crime and I've had some on my hyper-local online community suggest that the black race is simply violent ... as if the Nazi's were actually black.
The plain fact is the death toll from black on black crime in cities like Chicago doesn't get much media play suggesting those lives don't count. There has been a lot more written about the increasing frequency of white middle aged suicide with but few care that black men live on average maybe five to ten years less than their white counterparts.
People should understand that Black Lives Matter is actually black lives matter too! - just without that dangling participle - because society obviously discounts black lives in so many ways grom the lack of respect from LEO as shown in profiling and tendencies to push, handcuff, place prostate on the ground, arrest on to incarceration for debt, etc - all insults to lives, it becomes easy to see that what is meant is Black Lives Matter TOO!
Take the Black Lives Matter movement. Most of these folks are out there saying this is wrong and bad because all live matter, which of course they do.
The deniers are big on pointing out the death toll in black on black crime and I've had some on my hyper-local online community suggest that the black race is simply violent ... as if the Nazi's were actually black.
The plain fact is the death toll from black on black crime in cities like Chicago doesn't get much media play suggesting those lives don't count. There has been a lot more written about the increasing frequency of white middle aged suicide with but few care that black men live on average maybe five to ten years less than their white counterparts.
People should understand that Black Lives Matter is actually black lives matter too! - just without that dangling participle - because society obviously discounts black lives in so many ways grom the lack of respect from LEO as shown in profiling and tendencies to push, handcuff, place prostate on the ground, arrest on to incarceration for debt, etc - all insults to lives, it becomes easy to see that what is meant is Black Lives Matter TOO!
64
White guy here. A couple of years ago I wall pulled over by a very obnoxious and rude cop for the bogus charge of failing to yield the right of way to a pedestrian. No such thing happened.
I attributed his rudeness and obnoxious behavior to is character. And I attributed the ticket to a quota.
However, a black person, give the same exact treatment, could have attributed it to racism.
Something to think about.
I attributed his rudeness and obnoxious behavior to is character. And I attributed the ticket to a quota.
However, a black person, give the same exact treatment, could have attributed it to racism.
Something to think about.
65
I'm glad this Dr is sharing his story. As more "prominent" people of color share their stories - Drs, Lawyers, Sports Figures, Politicians - then and only then will people begin to see reality. It's too bad if that's what if takes but if it helps then that's good.
27
I know how this doctor feels. Many of my interactions with cops have been fairly positive, but when I've been mistaken for a black male (I'm female), I've been pulled over and I've seen the look of surprise. I'm always afraid, but I've never been as afraid as I will be for now on. Thankfully, I don't drive much any more and I've always been good about staying within the law when I did drive anyway.
But my fear is there, so much so that I wouldn't let my husband who is white walk up to a policeman that he said was going to ticket our car and I insisted he was stopped to check out the Mexican men on the corner, not our car (which was illegally parked unbeknownst to us). My husband doesn't hear well and his voice reflects that. I was afraid he wouldn't be understood or his hand gestures would be mistaken as threatening.
Me, black woman, scared. He, white man, not scared. We ended up with a ticket because of my fears.
But my fear is there, so much so that I wouldn't let my husband who is white walk up to a policeman that he said was going to ticket our car and I insisted he was stopped to check out the Mexican men on the corner, not our car (which was illegally parked unbeknownst to us). My husband doesn't hear well and his voice reflects that. I was afraid he wouldn't be understood or his hand gestures would be mistaken as threatening.
Me, black woman, scared. He, white man, not scared. We ended up with a ticket because of my fears.
23
Ask any teacher in northern NJ about the pros and cons of working in a richer suburban town or a poorer city/town- they'll all agree on this:
in the richer towns, the parents, even if they're working, are on top of their kids' schooling, attend back to school nights, get upset with grades of less than an A, and call/ email the teachers and the principals to make sure their kids get what they deserve.
In the poorer districts, there are fewer parents at back to school nights, no one is questioning the grades, there's much more acting out by the students, and few parents are getting a free library card for their kids to become enriched with a love of books or to keep up.
If faced with the same starting salary, which would you choose?
in the richer towns, the parents, even if they're working, are on top of their kids' schooling, attend back to school nights, get upset with grades of less than an A, and call/ email the teachers and the principals to make sure their kids get what they deserve.
In the poorer districts, there are fewer parents at back to school nights, no one is questioning the grades, there's much more acting out by the students, and few parents are getting a free library card for their kids to become enriched with a love of books or to keep up.
If faced with the same starting salary, which would you choose?
59
"This complacency among us white Americans has been a historical constant."
A moment of candid self reflection from Kristof, what a pleasant surprise.
A moment of candid self reflection from Kristof, what a pleasant surprise.
9
I hope all this talk about racism and the color of own's skin eventually turns to one of character, both in expectation and respect, on both sides of the black/white aisle. No one cares about the color of someone's skin if both sides share compatible values. Let's talk about that.
36
Can we stop with this delusion that "whites" don't get that this is an issue?
Talking about "whites" is virtually meaningless unless you control for 1) Education level 2) Urban vs. Rural, and 3) Republican vs. Democrat.
For the last two years, the NYT has talked about this issue endlessly. The same in the Washington Post and on college campuses. I highly doubt the author comes across many white people who would deny it. And, despite the fact that some people would like to think that no one white person ever knew about police brutality until Ferguson, it's been an issue for a long time. The term "Driving while black" has been around for at least a decade.
Talking about "whites" is virtually meaningless unless you control for 1) Education level 2) Urban vs. Rural, and 3) Republican vs. Democrat.
For the last two years, the NYT has talked about this issue endlessly. The same in the Washington Post and on college campuses. I highly doubt the author comes across many white people who would deny it. And, despite the fact that some people would like to think that no one white person ever knew about police brutality until Ferguson, it's been an issue for a long time. The term "Driving while black" has been around for at least a decade.
31
This column is nothing new for Nicholas Kristoff. See “What Whites Don’t Get,” in five parts, plus other similarly themed columns.
Kristoff’s bottom line, after the white guilt trip, is always the same. There must be this government program, that government program, if a privately run program, government funding. What I say below, (a) I say in all sincerity, and (b) in the knowledge that it will never happen.
There is only one place that can make things better for the bleak statistics Kristoff continually chronicles: the black community. Black girls not proudly having babies starting in their early teens, blacks valuing an education and staying in school, blacks who try to study not being dissed as“acting white,” black males not having a count of “baby mamas,” blacks thinking they can do better than a culture we see in vile rap.
Most importantly, a rejection by the black community of the stock and trade of black “activists” and whites such as Nicholas Kristoff, of “I’m just a victim.” Victimhood has its uses to those that preach it as a lead-in to the call for much more from the government as the cure and as a convenient sideshow to take away the notion that blacks themselves have any responsibility to make things better.
A high school in a neighboring black community has a day care center. Nicholas Kristoff’s repeated victimhood sermons offer no realistic avenues to a time when such a center would not be necessary.
Kristoff’s bottom line, after the white guilt trip, is always the same. There must be this government program, that government program, if a privately run program, government funding. What I say below, (a) I say in all sincerity, and (b) in the knowledge that it will never happen.
There is only one place that can make things better for the bleak statistics Kristoff continually chronicles: the black community. Black girls not proudly having babies starting in their early teens, blacks valuing an education and staying in school, blacks who try to study not being dissed as“acting white,” black males not having a count of “baby mamas,” blacks thinking they can do better than a culture we see in vile rap.
Most importantly, a rejection by the black community of the stock and trade of black “activists” and whites such as Nicholas Kristoff, of “I’m just a victim.” Victimhood has its uses to those that preach it as a lead-in to the call for much more from the government as the cure and as a convenient sideshow to take away the notion that blacks themselves have any responsibility to make things better.
A high school in a neighboring black community has a day care center. Nicholas Kristoff’s repeated victimhood sermons offer no realistic avenues to a time when such a center would not be necessary.
40
Why fear them? The policeman at the scene is the authority. In every one of these videos, it’s shown that nobody is following the instructions of the police officer. Virtually 100% of these shooting involved people not doing what the police officer says. Are we raising a generation of undisciplined people that never learned to do what they are told? What is your fear of simply doing what the police officer tells you?
44
It would be a great idea to experiment with a model county that is completely gun free, and then examine the attitude of the cops as they stop someone for traffic violation or drugs or anything else. That experiment will remove the gun-fear factor and expose the inherent biases in policing. It may provide the right tools for training the police.
10
I agree that because I'm a white male, my life has been easier . And I agree that for race relations to improve a lot more white males will have to admit this. That said, Black Lives Matter is probably the single largest obstacle to this happening because of their childish, often dangerous antics and pseudo-Marxist exclusionary ideology. Unlike civil rights groups in the past, BLM is not open to discussing the salient points of contention - it's their way or the highway. I firmly believe if they ran the government most whites and many blacks would be consigned to reeducation camps like those of Mao.
11
While I agree with you and the many opinion writers who are now laser focused on discrimination against people of color, I have noted with interest that these rarely include discussion about the discrimination of women by men in cultures around the world, including the black & white cultures discussed today. I suspect that a close examination would reveal that women of any culture are less likely to discriminate than men. As a woman who spent 45 years in the financial industry, I NEVER met a woman who was actually groomed for the fast track. Most, like me, get there by forced necessity because we work so hard and become too valuable to ignore. I have made a hobby of reading the annual reports of companies and computing how many have women executives who aren't in HR or Treasury functions - the list in this country, like men of color, will fit on a stickie note.
16
Segregation makes it possible for whites to know nothing much about inequality, racial and economic (it applies to the poor as well). I am older and went to a Quaker high school for two years where a mix of students lived together in dorms and in class and socially. We weren't "different" - I liked some and not others, regardless of race or ethnicity. Living with that for two years set up how I see the world. Everyone should experience that.
At work there was a mix of people, in grad school there was less of a mix and in social life even less as America re-segregated and self serving ways of seeing the world became accepted. It's so comfortable to think the poor are poor due to "bad choices" and apply the same "logic" to race or ethnicity. A few brilliant exceptions are used to reinforce the idea that anything is possible for anyone, therefore the ones that fall behind are to blame. Blame added to misfortune is demoralizing.
I committed financial suicide by abandoning a well paid profession to get a PhD in middle age, trading a good salary for an interesting life. It was the right decision. But not having much money by choice is very different than having no choice due to lack of opportunity and being disrespected or worse, demonized as a threat in a war zone and killed.
At work there was a mix of people, in grad school there was less of a mix and in social life even less as America re-segregated and self serving ways of seeing the world became accepted. It's so comfortable to think the poor are poor due to "bad choices" and apply the same "logic" to race or ethnicity. A few brilliant exceptions are used to reinforce the idea that anything is possible for anyone, therefore the ones that fall behind are to blame. Blame added to misfortune is demoralizing.
I committed financial suicide by abandoning a well paid profession to get a PhD in middle age, trading a good salary for an interesting life. It was the right decision. But not having much money by choice is very different than having no choice due to lack of opportunity and being disrespected or worse, demonized as a threat in a war zone and killed.
14
I hope all this talk about racism and the color of own's skin eventually turns to one of character, both in expectation and respect, on both sides of the black/white aisle. No one cares about the color of someone's skin if both sides share compatible values. Let's take about that.
11
If you want want true equality in American Society let it begin with the schools.
All Public Schools in each State should be funded equally.
[Something the Supreme Court forgot to include in its 1954 Ruling on
"Brown vs Topeka Board of Education".
Teachers should be assigned to local schools via their abilities not because they really don't want to teach at a school that has "low achievers."
Students who need extra help should be given it before and after school.
Schools should be open from 6 AM to 8 PM for parents who have to go to work at hours beyond 9 - 5.
Higher expectations and due diligence via discipline must be provided.
It does not help any student if they just sit in school and refuse to learn/co-operate and there are no consequences.
Ghettoes and massive Housing Projects that are high crime areas must be
demolished and spread out throughout the cities.
Americans are not "racists" but they have reached their limit in making exceptions for anyone just because of the "colour" of their skin.
All Public Schools in each State should be funded equally.
[Something the Supreme Court forgot to include in its 1954 Ruling on
"Brown vs Topeka Board of Education".
Teachers should be assigned to local schools via their abilities not because they really don't want to teach at a school that has "low achievers."
Students who need extra help should be given it before and after school.
Schools should be open from 6 AM to 8 PM for parents who have to go to work at hours beyond 9 - 5.
Higher expectations and due diligence via discipline must be provided.
It does not help any student if they just sit in school and refuse to learn/co-operate and there are no consequences.
Ghettoes and massive Housing Projects that are high crime areas must be
demolished and spread out throughout the cities.
Americans are not "racists" but they have reached their limit in making exceptions for anyone just because of the "colour" of their skin.
14
Yet again, no concern over the lives of Native Americans. True, they weren't brought here in chains. Instead of enslavement, Native Americans experienced annihilation--full scale genocide by the government, white settlers, and religious institutions. Those that survived were removed to "reservations," a benign sounding word for forced encampments. In many respects, Native Americans have yet to be emancipated. Today, the Native American population suffers from high rates of alcoholism, infant mortality, and unemployment. So where's the outrage for our first people? Where are the street protests? The newspaper columns?
28
As a white middle class woman, I fully accept the fact that I am advantaged by white privilege. I think it is important to stress that such a realization does not mean that I am personally racist. I think many readers respond from a defensive position because they do not want to see themselves as personally bigoted. Kristof is writing about institutionalized racism, a history that has privileged being perceived as white over being seen as black. If we as white citizens can just let go out defensiveness, remember the country's history, and listen with open minds, we might make some progress toward understanding. And yes, poverty is a huge factor for both black and white children. But black children are doubly disadvantaged because of cultural baggage that skews perceptions of them even as young children. Reading the comments in response to Kristof's latest, clear and honest attempt to make an important point underscores the tenacity of white denial. A helpful resource for me is Peggy McIntosh's "Unpacking the Knapsack of White Privilege," available on line. Nothing hels more, however, than a willingness to listen out of our own comfort zones.
41
While looking over the corrupt landscape of American culture I have come to the conclusion that America needs a reckoning and this is well on its way. A reckoning will come about when the pain and suffering of those in our nation has reached a massive level. We are well into this at this time.
The USA has become dysfunctional, inhospitable for the good of the people. The USA is no longer about we the people. It is about a corrupt capitalistic money grubbing culture to keep it hard for most as others stash their money, gold, art works in foreign countries.
The massive eroding of the infrastructure may be the key as a catalyst to force the reckoning of further dysfunction, even to the point that with its break down even the wealthy capitalists will not have the physical structure to function as an efficient business.
In short, even the rich will begin to feel the scarcity of decent transportation, public services such as utilities, water pipes and natural gas lines. The electric grid is so far behind in security standards that we could spend weeks, even months with no electricity.
This is the reckoning that will change America and humble the rich and entitled.
This reckoning to show we are in this together, all.
The USA has become dysfunctional, inhospitable for the good of the people. The USA is no longer about we the people. It is about a corrupt capitalistic money grubbing culture to keep it hard for most as others stash their money, gold, art works in foreign countries.
The massive eroding of the infrastructure may be the key as a catalyst to force the reckoning of further dysfunction, even to the point that with its break down even the wealthy capitalists will not have the physical structure to function as an efficient business.
In short, even the rich will begin to feel the scarcity of decent transportation, public services such as utilities, water pipes and natural gas lines. The electric grid is so far behind in security standards that we could spend weeks, even months with no electricity.
This is the reckoning that will change America and humble the rich and entitled.
This reckoning to show we are in this together, all.
15
I can affirm that the current dialog about race can make a difference in perception. In my own situation as a white male as a research chemist, then entrepreneur and subsequently executive in chemical manufacturing for the past 25 years, I was unaware that racial problems still occurred. My assumption was that the civil rights movement and resulting equalizing legislation had brought about racial equity and harmony.
Of course, the atmosphere I've known since the mid 60's has daily exposed me to black men and women, professionals like myself. My relationship with these various talented people has always been pleasant and cordial, both in company gatherings and personal parties. Our business culture was that race is irrelevant (we have many Asians, Africans, etc; typical of most tech companies). We've had the unwritten conversation rule to not bring up race at all. That was considered inappropriate.
But, lately, really the last decade, there has been an emphasis on initiating conversations with members of various races about their perception of equality in a white dominated America. And the press (thanks NYTimes) has made the public aware that there are still problems and blacks in particular still experience prejudice and discrimination. And so, I changed and began having dialog. I was appalled about what I learned. I have a new perspective and sense of purpose. We live in a new era. I believe these new conversations will bring about revolutionary changes.
Of course, the atmosphere I've known since the mid 60's has daily exposed me to black men and women, professionals like myself. My relationship with these various talented people has always been pleasant and cordial, both in company gatherings and personal parties. Our business culture was that race is irrelevant (we have many Asians, Africans, etc; typical of most tech companies). We've had the unwritten conversation rule to not bring up race at all. That was considered inappropriate.
But, lately, really the last decade, there has been an emphasis on initiating conversations with members of various races about their perception of equality in a white dominated America. And the press (thanks NYTimes) has made the public aware that there are still problems and blacks in particular still experience prejudice and discrimination. And so, I changed and began having dialog. I was appalled about what I learned. I have a new perspective and sense of purpose. We live in a new era. I believe these new conversations will bring about revolutionary changes.
55
Many of these are self fulfilling. If you stoke anger at law enforcement, you are more likely to get in the cops' face during a routine traffic stop. The way to beat this is to develop a culture of achievement in your own community. Guess which ethnicity is the wealthiest in America ? If you guessed white, or Jewish, you are wrong. Focus on education, and you can beat white privilege. Just ask the Indian Americans.
11
Let's examine the percentage of blacks vs. whites shot by police in the context of the total number of interactions between police and suspects. They shoot more whites so the cops aren't doing anything to blacks that they aren't also doing to whites. Cops are human beings and often in situations where they are scared out of their minds. Fact: the most violent and criminal demographic in our society will have a higher rate of arrest, incarceration and police shootings. Second, examine the stats on interracial violence in America. While most violence occurs between members of the same race, when it comes to black/white or white/black violence, interracial violence is overwhelmingly black on white. It isn't even close. There is no war by society on young black men. If anything, statistics show there is a war on society by young black men. Now there are certainly socioeconomic reasons behind these statistics and it has nothing to do with any race being superior to any other race but facts are facts. If the media told this truth, black folks wouldn't be in such a state of outrage. They do have historical and legacy inequities to overcome without a doubt. But the "being hunted down" narrative has become pervasive and even more delusional that any point raised in this article. The leftist media in cooperation with the Democrats need a motivating factor to get black folks to the polls since Obama won't be on the ballot. That is the reason all of this is happening.
17
The idea that whites don’t grasp the problems of blacks, how being black is such a huge burden for them is real. But that’s not from racism. That’s partly reality. Very many people feel less than what they think they ought to be. It’s more racial & universal for blacks. Once Gwen Ifill said, when she wakes up, she feels “I’m black again.” Many white women also feel, “I’m fat again.”
But there is indifference on the part of whites towards the plight of blacks, especially of inner city blacks, who always struggle with so many problems.
Among their struggles high crime rate in inner cities is THE GRAVEST problem. This morning I heard a police chief saying, 90% of the murderers in Chicago are blacks & 80% of murder victims also are blacks. That kind of statistics would scare any one, especially the police who have to deal with that perennially. That's is the main reason why police look at a black young man
with fear and/or prejudice. In turn the black youths feel the police harass them.
Only black leaders can do anything about this. They should tell their black brethren and educate them about this reality. No one else can do it. Some prominent blacks say it but their voices are drowned out by black activists & white liberals (I myself am a liberal, but not white).
What the (white) majority can do for less educated & less skilled inner city black youths is provide them jobs, any jobs, and pay them attractive wages, with federal subsidy to reach close to $15/hr.
But there is indifference on the part of whites towards the plight of blacks, especially of inner city blacks, who always struggle with so many problems.
Among their struggles high crime rate in inner cities is THE GRAVEST problem. This morning I heard a police chief saying, 90% of the murderers in Chicago are blacks & 80% of murder victims also are blacks. That kind of statistics would scare any one, especially the police who have to deal with that perennially. That's is the main reason why police look at a black young man
with fear and/or prejudice. In turn the black youths feel the police harass them.
Only black leaders can do anything about this. They should tell their black brethren and educate them about this reality. No one else can do it. Some prominent blacks say it but their voices are drowned out by black activists & white liberals (I myself am a liberal, but not white).
What the (white) majority can do for less educated & less skilled inner city black youths is provide them jobs, any jobs, and pay them attractive wages, with federal subsidy to reach close to $15/hr.
17
As someone who grew up in the inner city of Newark NJ, I assure you I suffer from no 'white delusion'. I have noted from experience based on fact that many of America's inner cities have become extraordinarily dangerous shooting galleries and drug markets where no rational person would venture freely. We've seen the total breakdown of any traditional values and family structure result in 70% of black births being to unwed mothers. The resulting lack of positive social values and behaviors has meant no positive educational outcomes are possible in the wreckage of inner city public school systems, no matter how well funded. We know the racial statistics on who commits crimes. Going back into Bill Clinton's administration, the AA community clamored for minimum sentences for drug and other offenses to try to control crime in their venues. They now seem surprised to find that black drug dealers and criminals they complained about are the ones who ran afoul of those laws, and lament that many young black men are in jail. Who did they think was going? The ladies quilting bee in Wyoming? And we see the misogynist, depraved and degrading so-called black culture polluting the nation's culture, while we are are told the AA community does not get enough things like Academy Awards.
Delusions? No, its the left wing American elite mass media that is deluded, thinking we don't see what they are doing, insisting whites are bad, and blacks are good....
Delusions? No, its the left wing American elite mass media that is deluded, thinking we don't see what they are doing, insisting whites are bad, and blacks are good....
20
Mr. Kristof rightly points to systemic racism in our educational institutions. This problem is generally ignored when it comes to community colleges. Yet, the assault on community colleges as genuine gateways to higher education shouldn’t be ignored. For example, in 2015 Gov. Cuomo proposed reforms for community colleges that would discount the goals of millions of students seeking the opportunities afforded by higher education. Instead of maintaining the NYS community college as gateways to opportunity and choice, Cuomo wants community colleges to drive economic development in New York State by creating a two-tiered system of higher education funneling these students into “training program(s)… for a specific industry” that will “design” the programs for the skills they require so the student can “then graduate” and “go right in to that company…” Community colleges in NYS predominately serve minority and under-resourced communities. Transforming these into “job training” centers for private industry offering little or no grounding in the liberal arts this will chip away at the equalizing force higher education serves in America further entrenching existing economic divisions and, along with it, racial inequality. It will also fuel the white working classes’ misplaced anger towards minorities. Yet we hear little push back against this. It’s about time we cast a critical eye on this development in higher education and understand its corrosive impact on American democracy.
6
Just like many white and non-white minorities before, including recent black African immigrants, Latinos (to a lesser extent), East Asians, Indians, Irish, Italian, Polish, blacks will have to assimilate to be fully accepted. They have not, and slavery 150 years ago is no excuse. Like it or not, this country was built by whites and assimilation means adopting the white culture.
5
While it may be fun to obsess about the 13% of America that is black, I would rather look at poverty (white, black, or whatever). Of course, that is not in vogue in the ivory tower Kristof et al live in.
15
I grew up in the deep South cropping tobacco, tossing melons, drinking Ripple Wine and fighting with back who were also friends. When I enlisted in the Army by "buddy" was Black. We were all dirt poor and accepted the overt racism of separate drinking fountains and so forth with little comment. But what I did hear a lot about was education. They got the same message at home I got: Son, your only way out is education. Not the Black Studies tripe and similar make-believe programs that fill statistical gaps while cheating the black students of a real education, but a real education. I can remember sitting around in the tobacco barn talking about going to college (I went on a football scholarship that helped me out) during the heat of the day break with many black field hands (there were far fewer whites-work was too hard) and all they wanted to talk about was college. They were not even sure what "college" meant, but they knew that was the real land of dreams. And so it remains. Everything else is just bull. Education--a real education--is the real answer. A real education changes everything even though these persistent insults and disrespecting of blacks continues. It is the great leap forward in real terms.
14
One can trace the increase in what is called institutional racism on a line that follows almost exactly the continued increase in blacks vote for only one party, until now, it is an actual monolith.
The instititutions that are perceived (rightly or wrongly, Im not commenting on that) racist are political in nature. If you do the same thing over and over but want a different result, others will look at this in disbelief.
IMHO these political institutions lack the incentives to change. Until blacks are willing to change on a local and national level how they distribute their vote, and make politicians earn their vote (instead of assuming it or ignoring it), it seems to me the wanted change isn't coming. Just this guys opinion...
The instititutions that are perceived (rightly or wrongly, Im not commenting on that) racist are political in nature. If you do the same thing over and over but want a different result, others will look at this in disbelief.
IMHO these political institutions lack the incentives to change. Until blacks are willing to change on a local and national level how they distribute their vote, and make politicians earn their vote (instead of assuming it or ignoring it), it seems to me the wanted change isn't coming. Just this guys opinion...
4
Rather than monolithically refer to us as white, why not use the term oblivious?
For the most part, it is a fitting and accurate statement. The fact that so many whites disavow white privilege is cause enough to paint with this broad brush. I wouldn't like being called that, but then there I go, making it all about me.
For the most part, it is a fitting and accurate statement. The fact that so many whites disavow white privilege is cause enough to paint with this broad brush. I wouldn't like being called that, but then there I go, making it all about me.
5
I do a lot of reading and thinking about race and society, race and history, race and politics. It's deep and complex. A lot of people don't care or aren't able to do the cultural work of understanding our true history and our uniquely diverse national make-up. I've just always been fascinated with the black American experience, as I loved many black heroes of the 60's and 70's -the music, the language, the arts, the styles.Partially, at least, I agree with DuBois and Baldwin, that the black experience, historicall and to the present, is one of the primary componentss of American identity.
Having said all that, I have two short notions yhat I think cover a lot of ground, so to speak: the notion that home and community supports are probably the greatest factors in educational outcomes, and the notion that when America gets sick (economically, politically, ideologically - blacks suffer the worst.
Having said all that, I have two short notions yhat I think cover a lot of ground, so to speak: the notion that home and community supports are probably the greatest factors in educational outcomes, and the notion that when America gets sick (economically, politically, ideologically - blacks suffer the worst.
5
as an average white guy I always knew that driving while black was a crime or at the very least probable cause. but what I did not realize was how often these stops had murderous results. now thanks to the advent of the camera phone we know that the murderous onslaught has been going on for decades. things have probably gotten better in the last 20 years or so but that is not saying much as it turns out. there is no way you can every justify the killing of a police office in the line of duty, but clearly the real problem is the wonton use of force by police against minorities. it may be true that this is the work of just a small percentage of the national police force, but as with all other statistics influence by the China Factor, even small seemingly insignificant percentages can result in large absolute numbers due to the very large populations we are dealing with.
5
Spend more on education? Superficial. Yes, but. The insecurity of our whole economic system plays out in homes and families in combination with historical racism.
Are there more problems in dark skinned homes and schools, but not in the white skinned homes and schools, then? Low earnings, lack of education, more single mothers, less family stability---etc etc---why? This is just more blaming the victim and assuming innate superiority of whites. Same old.... 100 years after the civil war.... on and on.
Congress allowed unions to be destroyed and million of jobs to move to Asia. This has nothing to do with race problems we see?
Our Darwinian economics, allied to endemic racism that sets up caste hierarchies of worth, and then segregates accordingly. making it easy for both police bias and perpetuation of poverty. Go back in the chain of causation to grasp the reality, instead of looking at the end result and blaming the victim.
If America’s slave descendants were the same in physical appearance as the descendants of the slave owner race, our racial cleavage wouldn’t have lasted so long. But it just keeps taking different forms, all due to different skin color and the perceptions that follow, despite our civil rights laws.
Are there more problems in dark skinned homes and schools, but not in the white skinned homes and schools, then? Low earnings, lack of education, more single mothers, less family stability---etc etc---why? This is just more blaming the victim and assuming innate superiority of whites. Same old.... 100 years after the civil war.... on and on.
Congress allowed unions to be destroyed and million of jobs to move to Asia. This has nothing to do with race problems we see?
Our Darwinian economics, allied to endemic racism that sets up caste hierarchies of worth, and then segregates accordingly. making it easy for both police bias and perpetuation of poverty. Go back in the chain of causation to grasp the reality, instead of looking at the end result and blaming the victim.
If America’s slave descendants were the same in physical appearance as the descendants of the slave owner race, our racial cleavage wouldn’t have lasted so long. But it just keeps taking different forms, all due to different skin color and the perceptions that follow, despite our civil rights laws.
6
When will Mr. Kristoff be writing on the delusion of the urbanites? Just because the urban environment presents a slew of interactions to be observed, it does not follow that the sociology of said interactions is the entire universe. Rural America is out here awaiting some attention, because the policies that are being fomented by insular elites to solve problems as they perceive such are a poor fit for the environment of long distances, low bandwidth and scarce money.
6
I'm a white man. When I was in my late 20s, I married a black woman. Until she and I were together, I was blissfully unaware of how deeply racism ran through our society. I never thought people of color were making things up, but I never really understood their plight, either.
Then I got to see it first hand. My wife was followed around department stores. She was told, when she applied for a promotion at her job, that it wasn't the place for "her kind" of people. When our children were born, they would be treated markedly differently depending on whether they were with her or me. If my son hit another kid on the playground while I was there, it was kids being kids. If it happened with just her there, it got dirty looks and parents leading their kids away.
It is very difficult to communicate to those of my skin tone what our privilege truly is. We don't think twice when we see a cop on the street. If anything, we feel safer. But for so many Americans, the opposite is true. So much happens that we just don't see, not because we're turning a blind eye so much as because we literally don't see it. It doesn't happen to us or even in front of us. We only hear about it second hand. But after being a witness to it, it's a good deal harder to deny the race-based inequities of our society.
Then I got to see it first hand. My wife was followed around department stores. She was told, when she applied for a promotion at her job, that it wasn't the place for "her kind" of people. When our children were born, they would be treated markedly differently depending on whether they were with her or me. If my son hit another kid on the playground while I was there, it was kids being kids. If it happened with just her there, it got dirty looks and parents leading their kids away.
It is very difficult to communicate to those of my skin tone what our privilege truly is. We don't think twice when we see a cop on the street. If anything, we feel safer. But for so many Americans, the opposite is true. So much happens that we just don't see, not because we're turning a blind eye so much as because we literally don't see it. It doesn't happen to us or even in front of us. We only hear about it second hand. But after being a witness to it, it's a good deal harder to deny the race-based inequities of our society.
55
White. Lies. Matter.
44
President Obama's election was the best and worst thing that could have happened to race relations in America. It was the worst thing because it brought the hatred, anger and resentment, by many white Americans, of African Americans to the surface. It was the best thing because it brought the hatred, anger and resentment, by many white Americans, of African Americans to the surface, and it now has to be dealt with, rather than glossed-over.
As a Canadian, working in various areas of the United States over the last 25 years, I can't begin to tell you how many times a day (and increasingly, day by day, over the last 8 years) Malcolm X's "Plymouth Rock" quote slips into my conscious thoughts, and I feel nausea sweep over me.
I used to think I had a handle on the American thought process. Man, was I delusional.
As a Canadian, working in various areas of the United States over the last 25 years, I can't begin to tell you how many times a day (and increasingly, day by day, over the last 8 years) Malcolm X's "Plymouth Rock" quote slips into my conscious thoughts, and I feel nausea sweep over me.
I used to think I had a handle on the American thought process. Man, was I delusional.
26
I am an older white woman who grew up in a black community and now live in an overwhelmingly white community. I am wondering where I fit in to this debate. I am afraid to develop or talk frankly to friends of color because I'm afraid they see me as part of a monolithic white class and afraid I will stumble, say the wrong thing, and mess up our friendship. But I really do want to have an open discussion about what I can do that would help. I acknowledge the privelege that I have enjoyed by simply being white, but where do I go from here? I'm not healthy enough to be on the front lines of physically protesting. Beyond voting for candidates that support these views, I'm looking for effective things to do.
49
Thank you for this thoughtful and obviously truthful piece. I'm always just so shocked that we whites can delude ourselves so completely and that the anger in the African-American community isn't even greater. Kristof's column, read in conjunction with today's analysis of the covert racism of the Trump campaign, is a heart-wrenching reminder of the legacy of centuries of racism and how it still is given legitimacy by our most prominent politicians.
4
Here you see the new script of the lunatics on the Left. It starts off with you stupid white people line, then references some advances, and of course concludes with you stupid white people need to do more. I'll do more if the following conditions are met. 1) Lower that unwed child percentage from 70% to 30% in the next 5 years. 2) Make sure your existing children learn how to speak English correctly. 3) Make sure your existing children graduate HS at a 90% clip in 5 years. 4) Lower the black on black crime drastically over the next 5 years. You can do this, then us whiteys might begin to care.
4
I believe it is the rare person whose heart rate doesn't kick up a couple of dozen notches when the flashing lights appear in the rear-view mirror and the squad car's headlights aren't visible because it is so close. My wife, yes she's white, whiter than I am, 100% German white, said last night that she is afraid when she is the obvious target of a stop for a traffic violation.
That said, I know that my anxiety is nowhere near that of a person whose skin color is not pale flesh. I have only been ordered out of my car one time. Returning from leave to my Army base in Georgia I was stopped outside Statesboro because my car matched the description of a robbery get-away vehicle. While the officer was gruffly polite, he kept his hand on his holstered revolver for most of the time it took t establish I was not the suspect he was after, I was still shaken. That was nearly 50 years ago, and to this day I still remember the scene clearly.
I believe most of those polled who say otherwise know that Blacks are not treated identically as are whites, that educational and career opportunities are not equally available and that their responses are more to make them feel better about themselves than to be bluntly honest, even with themselves.
That said, I know that my anxiety is nowhere near that of a person whose skin color is not pale flesh. I have only been ordered out of my car one time. Returning from leave to my Army base in Georgia I was stopped outside Statesboro because my car matched the description of a robbery get-away vehicle. While the officer was gruffly polite, he kept his hand on his holstered revolver for most of the time it took t establish I was not the suspect he was after, I was still shaken. That was nearly 50 years ago, and to this day I still remember the scene clearly.
I believe most of those polled who say otherwise know that Blacks are not treated identically as are whites, that educational and career opportunities are not equally available and that their responses are more to make them feel better about themselves than to be bluntly honest, even with themselves.
7
Another starting point, Mr. Kristof, is to stop framing the issue as just "us whites" vs blacks. Why couldn't you have said "whites like myself"? As your reader, that choice of words implied this is a conversation that only whites and blacks need to be having. Yes, I'm glad that there is so much focus on the injustices that black americans experience, but why is it that people like myself are continually left out of the national discourse?
5
No mention of poverty? If you do not include poverty in this analysis, it comes across as simple racism. Blacks are more likely to commit crimes simply because of their skin color. That is not only ridiculous, it's offensive. You must include economic class in any discussion of opportunities. Black kids are equally likely to get a good education as white kids? Sure, if we're talking about middle-class kids from two-parent homes. If we're talking about the 72% of black children born to unmarried mothers, many of whom will live in poverty, and comparing them to middle-class white kids, then no, those kids do not have as good a chance of getting a decent education. But if we're talking about middle-class black kids versus poor white kids, then of course, the middle-class black kids have a better chance of getting a decent education.
Omitting data about poverty is a convenient way to express racist sentiments without bothering to consider what drives crime (poverty), which schools are worst for kids (schools in poor neighborhoods), which families are most likely to live in poverty (unmarried mothers who are heads of household), which citizens are most like to encounter police (those who live in poor, crime-ridden neighborhoods), etc. Only a fool would insist that the residue of the atrocious racism of the country's history is completely swept away and no longer an issue. But focusing on the skin color rather than the economic circumstances which are the driving forces is wrong.
Omitting data about poverty is a convenient way to express racist sentiments without bothering to consider what drives crime (poverty), which schools are worst for kids (schools in poor neighborhoods), which families are most likely to live in poverty (unmarried mothers who are heads of household), which citizens are most like to encounter police (those who live in poor, crime-ridden neighborhoods), etc. Only a fool would insist that the residue of the atrocious racism of the country's history is completely swept away and no longer an issue. But focusing on the skin color rather than the economic circumstances which are the driving forces is wrong.
66
You are correct, but the economic circumstances themselves are largely a cumulative result of our history of discrimination. It's not a coincide that the impoverished portions of our major cities are minority communities. Government policy directed them there and barricaded them in.
3
I recently visited Berlin, where I found that Germans have done the admirable but tough thing of publicly acknowledging what they did during the Holocaust. Everywhere there are signs and memorial plaques informing anyone who stops to read about an inhumane act that took place in that spot. The Germans don't want to repeat history so they don't allow themselves to forget or ignore it.
In contrast, we Americans can easily ignore, deny or remain uninformed about our past as a slave nation, or as a society that systematically obliterated a Native culture. I never knew until I watched Henry Louis Gates' PBS series Many Rivers to Cross that slaves built all the major East Coast cities. Why is that fact not widely known?
Until we fully and honestly confront the stains on America's past -- yes we owned slaves and built an economy based on their labor, and yes we still have a society with glaring inequities-- we will always have troubled race relations in this country. An unhealed wound only gets worse over time, and the infection that sets in can become impossible to cure.
In contrast, we Americans can easily ignore, deny or remain uninformed about our past as a slave nation, or as a society that systematically obliterated a Native culture. I never knew until I watched Henry Louis Gates' PBS series Many Rivers to Cross that slaves built all the major East Coast cities. Why is that fact not widely known?
Until we fully and honestly confront the stains on America's past -- yes we owned slaves and built an economy based on their labor, and yes we still have a society with glaring inequities-- we will always have troubled race relations in this country. An unhealed wound only gets worse over time, and the infection that sets in can become impossible to cure.
102
"White delusion," for sure, has played a part in our sorry history of racial discrimination against African-Americans. But Mr. Kristoff fails to mention the long pattern of housing ordinances, covenants and guidelines, on both the federal and local levels and backed for much of the 20th century by the courts, that deliberately created and carved up urban and suburban neighborhoods so that blacks were obliged to live in isolated, substandard ghettoes. This pattern is still highly visible in older, heavily African-American cities like Cleveland, but it's unlikely that many Republican delegates to the convention next week will venture into the ghettoes. Where you live is the fundamental driver of opportunity or lack of opportunity, determining where you go to school, with whom you associate, what your horizons are. As the saying goes, it all begins at home.
5
"it's unlikely that many Republican delegates to the convention next week will venture into the ghettoes"
Many? That's (I'm certain) unintentional hilarity. They'll be all over the Flats -- the only "safe" place for them to be in C-Town -- or staying in their hotel rooms with every door lock engaged. I'll venture to say that the majority of the delegates attending the convention iron their underwear.
Many? That's (I'm certain) unintentional hilarity. They'll be all over the Flats -- the only "safe" place for them to be in C-Town -- or staying in their hotel rooms with every door lock engaged. I'll venture to say that the majority of the delegates attending the convention iron their underwear.
1
The biggest part of the delusion now arises from the fact that very few people know about the policies you are referring to. If you just see the south side of chicago now with no understanding of its history or context, it is easy to tell yourself that the culture of "those people" is the cause of the poverty rather than the result of it. That's the gist of a lot of the comments here, sadly.
5
Keep it up, Mr. Kristof. As you can see, people need to hear it. The "me too"-ness of a large swath of whites is so idiotic as to border on delusional. It's some kind of weird jealousy or demand for attention I guess.
3
I once taught in a middle school where almost half the students were black and the other half were Hispanics (meaning mostly Native Americans from south of the border with Spanish names). Hispanic kids were penalized and suspended more than the black students, even with lesser infractions. Blacks discriminate as well against Hispanics and whites. And there is hardly any mention of US Native Americans who continue to be displaced from the mainstream. A better solution to this race drama is to stop the conversation, and sometimes the yelling, and focus on being law-abiding citizens who excel in every task.
6
How do we insure that 5 yr old black children get the opportunity to learn how to be law-abiding citizens who excel at every task? Or are they on their own?
2
This is a great analysis! Moreover, Kristof is so right when he notes that blacks, historically, have under-reported (under-acknowledged) the extent of the horrors and indignities they have suffered at the hands of whites in this society. One of the things that strikes me about responses to this article (e.g., Philip Greider) is the focus on blacks "buying into a system". Instead, how about engaging in more critical analysis (and whites beginning dialogues with each other) of the broader impact of the self-delusion in which whites routinely engage? I'm talking about the impact on WHITES themselves. What does this mass self-delusion say about them? What does it say about the lies they tell themselves ABOUT THEMSELVES and the lies they live and pass down to their progeny? "One nation, ... indivisible and justice for all...". I cannot begin to fathom the intricacy of the psychological and moral gymnastics whites have done historically (and that they do today) to convince themselves of these lies. White racism makes a mockery of the ideals they came they believe and uphold.
5
I think much more attention should be given to the harmful practice of many police departments to fund themselves from the money collected by giving out tickets for minor vehicle infractions ie., broken tail-lights or turn signals, and minor moving violations (speeding 5 miles over the limit, coasting thru a stop sign, not signaling when changing lanes, etc.).
People in poor neighborhoods often work for $8.00 and hour or may be unemployed. Many may be on food stamp assistance. Many are single parents. Often the tickets are for several hundred dollars (just for a minor infraction) which may be an entire weeks pay. When they can't pay the fine the penalties may double, triple, quadruple and then may end up in an arrest and incarceration-------all for not signaling a lane change !
In a "normal white neighborhood" a person making $60,000 will have no trouble paying such a fine (in the rare situation where they would even ever get stopped by a cop). It's happened to me and I just mail in the $235 or so cause I was speeding "a bit". When a person is making only $8 an hour it is literally financially devastating.
There should be a prohibition against police departments funding their own existence thru this practice. It's actually a conflict of interest, and it has devastating consequences in poor, black neighborhoods. If anything, penalties for minor vehicle/traffic infractions should be greatly reduced. $25 would be adequate to make the point.
People in poor neighborhoods often work for $8.00 and hour or may be unemployed. Many may be on food stamp assistance. Many are single parents. Often the tickets are for several hundred dollars (just for a minor infraction) which may be an entire weeks pay. When they can't pay the fine the penalties may double, triple, quadruple and then may end up in an arrest and incarceration-------all for not signaling a lane change !
In a "normal white neighborhood" a person making $60,000 will have no trouble paying such a fine (in the rare situation where they would even ever get stopped by a cop). It's happened to me and I just mail in the $235 or so cause I was speeding "a bit". When a person is making only $8 an hour it is literally financially devastating.
There should be a prohibition against police departments funding their own existence thru this practice. It's actually a conflict of interest, and it has devastating consequences in poor, black neighborhoods. If anything, penalties for minor vehicle/traffic infractions should be greatly reduced. $25 would be adequate to make the point.
11
White America is racist. We may not say we are but we are. We have been taught racism from the day we were born. Slavery still persist today with the notion that white people are "superior" and black and brown people are "less than." What we need to do is admit it.
13
Finally. I spent 37 years teaching brown children in impoverished public schools and so I shared with them and their families the constant burden of white racism. But when speaking with my while liberal colleagues and relatives they were completely ignorant of the reality my brown children were forced to grow up in. White delusion is almost universal. I can't tell you what this means to me to witness this unmasking. Finally! When people are in denial nothing changes. Now I begin to have some hope, if only we don't elect Trump and the rest of the GOP goons. The fact that he has done so well should give everyone pause. What have we done? What are we about to do? Who are we?
10
White delusion stems from two different mindsets.
First, are the people who can't envision a situation, or won't believe it, if they haven't seen it or experienced it themselves. Second, are those disingenuous individuals that engage in simplistic thinking that refuse to take into consideration that discrimination since the 1960s has merely gone from overt to covert for many.
Just because a few equality laws have been passed over the decades and "politically correct" (common decency) thinking and speaking is encouraged, it doesn't mean that there isn't racial profiling going on, or resumes with ethnic sounding names aren't being tossed into file 13, or that black men aren't disproportionately being imprisoned or pulled over by law enforcement.
I'm not sure "delusion" is the right word, though, because I believe most people know.
First, are the people who can't envision a situation, or won't believe it, if they haven't seen it or experienced it themselves. Second, are those disingenuous individuals that engage in simplistic thinking that refuse to take into consideration that discrimination since the 1960s has merely gone from overt to covert for many.
Just because a few equality laws have been passed over the decades and "politically correct" (common decency) thinking and speaking is encouraged, it doesn't mean that there isn't racial profiling going on, or resumes with ethnic sounding names aren't being tossed into file 13, or that black men aren't disproportionately being imprisoned or pulled over by law enforcement.
I'm not sure "delusion" is the right word, though, because I believe most people know.
7
The only reason Trump can exist is our series of official policies of white supremacy. Were it not for the wink, wink, nudge, nudge effect, no serious politician like Trump would have made it past the first primary.
Vote, children. Vote for a generation of liberal enlightenment.
Vote, children. Vote for a generation of liberal enlightenment.
11
The goals of the Civil Rights Movement have not been fully achieved, especially economic. Now, perhaps some were unrealistic, or perhaps the ideas and tactics for achieving them of a half-century ago are no longer adequate—filing lawsuits, protest marches, legislative fine-tuning. But if we keep at the same thing and keep electing and depending on the same old type of politician, why are we surprised that nothing really changes? For as long as I’ve been alive, I’ve been hearing about a “Marshall Plan for the cities” from Democrats or community investment through “enterprise zones” from Republicans. There has to be a next.
3
So many of these comments remind me of "An Inconvenient Truth" - 90 minutes of convincing me there is a problem and 2 minutes of solutions.
OK, I believe. I've seen it with my own eyes all my life and know it exists. Now, what do you want me - a middle class, middle age white guy who doesn't make laws, enforce laws, or hire people - to do?
Just tell me, and I'll do my best. That's all I can promise.
80
Have you ever thought about being a "Big Brother" to any fatherless kid, white or black, tutoring in a majority black school, mentoring? I did the tutoring when I lived in Seattle. It was a wonderful and successful experience, both ways.
8
You make laws every time you enter the voting booth. Try that, for starters.
5
Let's get real, OK? Of course there is racial discrimination. It's price that all Blacks pay for the actions of a few. That's the way it is and it will not change anytime soon. We're hardwired that way. It can, over time, get better if Blacks, as a group, take a "forgive and forget" attitude. Black America needs
address the problems in their community and just maybe, over time, the rest of the country will be less bias. As long as they stick to this militant, BLM, in-your face, White people are the problem, attitude the problem will remain.
address the problems in their community and just maybe, over time, the rest of the country will be less bias. As long as they stick to this militant, BLM, in-your face, White people are the problem, attitude the problem will remain.
5
What should "black America" do to address the problems of "their" community?
And why do you suppose they have those problems in the first place?
Some additional research and thinking on your part is warranted.
And why do you suppose they have those problems in the first place?
Some additional research and thinking on your part is warranted.
3
So lets accept that racism and discrimination happens more than people thing. So what? That is the natural state of humans on this planet. Most humans have affinity with certain groups and reservations against others.
We need to just accept it and adapt. Many groups have been discriminated intensively against.
Some, like Jews, have been targeted for extermination even. Yet they persevered and thrived.
Chinese/Asian immigrants suffered despicable treatment throughout our history. And now they are discriminated against in college admissions for being so good that they'd "take too many spots, if admissions were based mostly on merit".
Whining for decades and decades that "we are being discriminated against", even after trillions of dollars and thousands of pages of legislation are spent on remediating it gets old.
At some point it is primarily up to a group or a people to raise themselves above the discrimination.
Yes, "whites" as if there is such a thing, can do better. But ultimately, it is "blacks", if there is such a thing, that need to do much, much, much better.
We need to just accept it and adapt. Many groups have been discriminated intensively against.
Some, like Jews, have been targeted for extermination even. Yet they persevered and thrived.
Chinese/Asian immigrants suffered despicable treatment throughout our history. And now they are discriminated against in college admissions for being so good that they'd "take too many spots, if admissions were based mostly on merit".
Whining for decades and decades that "we are being discriminated against", even after trillions of dollars and thousands of pages of legislation are spent on remediating it gets old.
At some point it is primarily up to a group or a people to raise themselves above the discrimination.
Yes, "whites" as if there is such a thing, can do better. But ultimately, it is "blacks", if there is such a thing, that need to do much, much, much better.
10
And now whites are whining that they are being discriminated against and are being set up for annihilation.
They're the ones whining about Asians doing so much better on SAT scores and getting into the best colleges.
Although whites still hold the majority of power and wealth in this country, apparently, blacks, who are actually still being discriminated against, don't have a monopoly on whining.
They're the ones whining about Asians doing so much better on SAT scores and getting into the best colleges.
Although whites still hold the majority of power and wealth in this country, apparently, blacks, who are actually still being discriminated against, don't have a monopoly on whining.
5
Expand the Headstart Program. I taught in one of the first programs in San Francisco, The pay was good. We had kids 1/2 day and the rest of the day could be devoted to creating great lesson plans and more importantly, home visits. We also went out to the poor neighborhoods and knocked on doors to recruit families. Hire parent educators who can relate to the parents. Ours was a middle class Filipana woman (all our students were poor black, white and island backgrounds) She was a nice woman but had no idea how to be effective. (please don't interpret this as bias against Filipanas!!!) I left San Francisco, and when I returned several years later, I was dismayed to find that the salaries had not kept up with the cost of living, and now teachers had two sessions of kids a day!! I got a job with the Sheriff' department instead.Guarding prisoners paid a lot more money! ...Let's put our money and respect "where our mouth is!!!"
4
Without disagreeing with Mr Kristoff, I note we do spend a lot of money on various program to help those who need it. And yet these problems fester. With Head Start, perhaps we get fabulous results, but in general there seems little interest in examining which programs are most effective and redirecting resources accordingly. I am not advocating block grants to the states as the solution. But it is pretty clear that many taxpayers do not want to spend their tax dollars on people who they perceive as the unworthy and undeserving so they resent being asked to spend more. Somehow re-thinking how we spend the money we already spend is not on the table.
3
What's your definition of "a lot of money"? We spend over $600 billion every year on defense. Well over a trillion dollars has been spent since 2001 to fight wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
What is the value of the economic damage inflicted on black Americans in the history of this country?
What is the value of the economic damage inflicted on black Americans in the history of this country?
3
The United States government has destroyed the black family far better than the worst KKK Exalted Cyclops could ever dream of doing.
9
My parents came to America illegally, via Canada, from Australia and England, in the fifties, then waited 7 years, and applied for legal citizenship.
They were heavily discriminated against. My mother was very lonely, and accused of being from "convict stock" because she was Australian. And we are white. So it's too simplistic to say, "all white people are biased against people of color." That's ridiculous. People are tribal, and don't like people outside their tribe, especially their religious tribe. Good luck trying to change that.
They were heavily discriminated against. My mother was very lonely, and accused of being from "convict stock" because she was Australian. And we are white. So it's too simplistic to say, "all white people are biased against people of color." That's ridiculous. People are tribal, and don't like people outside their tribe, especially their religious tribe. Good luck trying to change that.
12
The myth that blacks are a uniquely innately inferior, lazy, immoral, ignorant, violent and criminal caste while whites are a uniquely innately exactly the supremely opposite is supported by colored American history. Denying the humanity and defying the equality of blacks in enslavement and Jim Crow fits within the American historical tale of a democratic land of the free and home of the brave. That both whites and blacks can fall prey to the same delusion is the ultimate immoral evil. See "The Mis-Education of the Negro" Carter G. Woodson
9
I grew up poor & white, living in poor urban white & black neighborhoods. I was robbed once by a white kid, but many times by blacks, purse snatchings, being robbed on the subway, my parents were robbed, I was beat-up once. Blacks walked into our house once with guns & robbed us. The police saved myself & my family a few times. But I also saw evidence of police brutality. Of course, most blacks including our neighbors were decent, hard-working people.
So, what do I conclude from this & what do I believe?
I’m not delusional & I don’t believe in prejudice toward ANYone.
The association I experienced between black & crime is mostly fueled by the association between black & poverty, combined with poor education, resentment of poor blacks toward whites for past & current injustice & partly, yes, it IS, in some cases, the fault & responsibility of the perpetrators, just as it is in the case of white or white-collar crime.
I don’t appreciate white liberals from relatively affluent environments looking down on morally inferior poor whites & calling them delusional & racists. That said, I know Mr. Kristof means well, & speaks some truth & I hope inequalities & prejudices of all kinds diminish with time & I support efforts to bring that about provided it doesn’t remove individual responsibility or is reverse-racist.
So, what do I conclude from this & what do I believe?
I’m not delusional & I don’t believe in prejudice toward ANYone.
The association I experienced between black & crime is mostly fueled by the association between black & poverty, combined with poor education, resentment of poor blacks toward whites for past & current injustice & partly, yes, it IS, in some cases, the fault & responsibility of the perpetrators, just as it is in the case of white or white-collar crime.
I don’t appreciate white liberals from relatively affluent environments looking down on morally inferior poor whites & calling them delusional & racists. That said, I know Mr. Kristof means well, & speaks some truth & I hope inequalities & prejudices of all kinds diminish with time & I support efforts to bring that about provided it doesn’t remove individual responsibility or is reverse-racist.
6
I think you'll find that poverty and crime go hand in hand. There are poor neighborhoods here and in Europe that are nearly all white with a lot of crime. I believe at one point, England was talking segregating their criminals into what section of the city or it was one particular family (white) that constantly committed crimes then wanted to put in a walled off section of the city to keep tabs on them.
Nearly every country in the world has jails and they are populated by their own people. I was just watching a Netflix series on crime and forensic science in China. The crimes that they were investigating were horrific. Fathers killing wives and their own children. Gang members torturing victims and killing them. Men angry with girlfriends killing children and dumping their bodies. All Asian.
Blacks don't have a monopoly on crime and violence. You seem to understand that despite your experiences. I've lived in all black poor neighbors and never experienced any crime. The only time I was robbed was in a predominately white one. Go figure.
Poverty leads to crime. Blacks could have been full integrated into this country when slavery ended.
Nearly every country in the world has jails and they are populated by their own people. I was just watching a Netflix series on crime and forensic science in China. The crimes that they were investigating were horrific. Fathers killing wives and their own children. Gang members torturing victims and killing them. Men angry with girlfriends killing children and dumping their bodies. All Asian.
Blacks don't have a monopoly on crime and violence. You seem to understand that despite your experiences. I've lived in all black poor neighbors and never experienced any crime. The only time I was robbed was in a predominately white one. Go figure.
Poverty leads to crime. Blacks could have been full integrated into this country when slavery ended.
2
Race is a *political* concept, first, last and always.
Never forget that.
Human beings come in all shapes and sizes and colors. There are myriad ways that they can and have been organized and categorized, homogenized and secularized.
Skin color is a stupid way to divide people, so stop doing it.
Wake up, out there...
Never forget that.
Human beings come in all shapes and sizes and colors. There are myriad ways that they can and have been organized and categorized, homogenized and secularized.
Skin color is a stupid way to divide people, so stop doing it.
Wake up, out there...
7
Let's not forget the role poverty plays in all lives. Perhaps that is the more common denominator. Adults and children growing up in poor neighborhoods or living in profound rural poverty suffer from lack of opportunity that just repeats itself from generation to generation. That is America's true shame.
3
As Harvard sociologist Orlando Patterson wrote sometime ago, racial progress in America is a paradox. As more whites come to understand and appreciate the common humanity and the day to day struggle of their fellow black citizens, blacks folks, rather than being grateful for the “ racial progress of whites” recoil at the very notion that whites could have ever treated them as if they were less than human in the first place...
19
So it is always the black person's fault. First for not being hard working enough, smart enough, and finally not grateful enough?
1
Many of the comments to this column only prove the points that Kristoff makes. White privilege is an unfortunate reality in our society.
8
Unfortunately police abuse of power against blacks isn't just a matter for adults. It took a federal court ruling to stop police from routinely using physical force and pepper spray on students in schools. One student was pepper sprayed in a high school in Alabama because she refused a police order to stop crying in the hallway. As police become more militarized in urban areas, schools, and especially urban schools with high minority populations, are being subject to the inevitable abuses of police power.
3
Kristof attempting to "enlighten" those outside of Manhattan and his elite circles.Very endearing.
5
Your sarcasm and disdain are noted. Other than making people angry, what is the purpose of your comment? And what should we do if not bring attention to this problem? Ignore it, is that your answer?
2
Nick - it is beneath you to cite poll results and attitudes from over 50 years ago as evidence of white attitudes or racism today. You and I are old enough to remember when racism meant lynching - it is just dishonest to argue that nothing has changed, and to blame all of black America's ills on white attitudes from generations ago. Wallowing in white guilt does nothing to change the inner city attitudes and behaviors that underlie today's dysfunction of so many.
24
Um, maybe you need to reread what Kristof said. With the historical data, he put his column in context. Here's one simple sentence you obviously missed, "Of course, there have been advances."
3
He was putting today's attitudes, including the cited poll about how deluded and jealous (discrimination against whites is just as bad! Ha!) half the white population is, in context.
There's nothing wrong with this at all, unless you don't like what he's saying. I'm guessing you're in that half, JBR.
There's nothing wrong with this at all, unless you don't like what he's saying. I'm guessing you're in that half, JBR.
2
Having grown up in South Mississippi (Jones County no less) I can tell you the systemic racial bias is not only alive and well, but appalling. When my son was arrested for DUI, we hired an attorney and when to court, as most parents would do. On the day of his case, the entire docket was black men, and only TWO whites, my son and one poor white trash defendant. My son was the ONLY person on the docket who had an attorney present. The rest could not afford one. All, save my son, were found guilty for mostly minor offenses (no tail light!!!) and then hauled to jail to serve their time because they did not have the money to pay, nor an attorney.
This is how blacks are treated in our justice system in Jones County, MS.
This is how blacks are treated in our justice system in Jones County, MS.
37
It is how the poor are treated, be they black or white. The fact that the proportion of blacks who are poor is higher than the proportion of whites who are poor is a separate, but not necessarily equal, problem.
5
True, racism has been structuralized to a fault. Often subtle, with farcical smattering of a dark face here and there for optical purposes (keeping up appearances), in a system where capital, other means of production and acquisition of related skills is firmly vested among whites.
3
New Jersey spends $20,000 per student or more in in Camden, Newark and Atlantic City and less than $500 in small, upper middle class New Providence and Berkeley Heights. The richer districts make up the difference in property tax spending but the idea that poor black students do not receive education funding is a lie from leftists Kristof and Charles Blow.
Christie and his right wing supporters want to do away with these spending discrepancies to allocate an even $6599 per student across the state of NJ due to supposed poor return on investment for the disproportionate current system.
Perhaps the answer is not listening to extremists on the left or right and finding people willing to make sensible compromises.
Christie and his right wing supporters want to do away with these spending discrepancies to allocate an even $6599 per student across the state of NJ due to supposed poor return on investment for the disproportionate current system.
Perhaps the answer is not listening to extremists on the left or right and finding people willing to make sensible compromises.
20
Christie is right this time. Why spend money when 40:1 overspending hasn't made a difference in school quality.
3
I think the position of Blacks in the U.S. today is similar to the position of Jews in 19th century France or Germany and used to be similar to the position of Jews in Poland-- in the days of pogroms and lynching. Unlike what happened to German and French Jews in the 20th century, the position of Blacks will improve because the percentage of the population that is white is falling.
1
I'm Jewish and I don't really get what you're saying. In the US what mostly matters is how you look, although there is some dislike for "other" cultures and religions (especially now for Muslims). We American Jews of Eastern European background mostly look white. Pre WW2, Jews, those from the Mediterranean (Italians, for example) and other immigrant groups with darker hair, skin and eyes were not considered white. Nor were the Irish initially.
It isn't as simple as you make it sound, then or now.
It isn't as simple as you make it sound, then or now.
No. The only comparison is a certain incurable negative attitude to people of color, and Jews. But, what is failing black people is children without fathers, mothers without education who couldn't possibly find adequate employment, and the scourge of the drug culture, with the accompanying dependency and gang violence. Black families with two parents, especially when both work, who promote education and reading at home, are far more likely to succeed, in comparison to whites. With the exception of subpar schools. That is why school choice is crucial. Another delusion of so-called liberal whites is that schools in inner cities can be improved. Not without parental support at home.
3
I doubt it. Until black culture is fixed, hispanics and asians will take over and blacks will be further marginilized. Media and democrats will share the blame for that. If you want proof, look at trends in black employment and family income stats during the past 8 years.
2
Thoughtful, articulate and accurate. Thanks, Nick, for so profoundly telling it like it is.
12
If You Have Never Experience True Racism Up Close and In Person Then You Will Never Truly Understand The Pain and Scares It Can Leave In A Person Life. Only God Knows!
I strongly believe that layers of pain, mistrust, and taboos keep people divided along racial lines. So not talking about it will not solve the issues. It will only keep raising up.
We as black people learn early that race is not the kind of thing we can chat about with just anyone. The message we typically receive is that White people don’t want to hear it. “I Quote” That happen way back when, we need to just get over it. Why we still talking about it. I smile and simply say, because you never answered my question why do White People Think Blacks Are Intellectually Inferior. It’s because it’s still not acceptable in our society to think of black people as being intellectually equal.” you never really heard the real story simply because you refuse to listen. It’s time to talk about racial issues and stop sugar coating it.
Black people have had to develop a thick skin. So don’t tell me not to be sensitive. I actually wish I had that luxury, but I don’t. When I get upset over how I’m treated, not too many White people are going to put their arms around me and say, “There, there, I feel your pain.” I just get labeled as some oversensitive black woman with an attitude. Differences are what make us special and the similarities are what make us human.
Just my thoughts….CJHP~Pinson
I strongly believe that layers of pain, mistrust, and taboos keep people divided along racial lines. So not talking about it will not solve the issues. It will only keep raising up.
We as black people learn early that race is not the kind of thing we can chat about with just anyone. The message we typically receive is that White people don’t want to hear it. “I Quote” That happen way back when, we need to just get over it. Why we still talking about it. I smile and simply say, because you never answered my question why do White People Think Blacks Are Intellectually Inferior. It’s because it’s still not acceptable in our society to think of black people as being intellectually equal.” you never really heard the real story simply because you refuse to listen. It’s time to talk about racial issues and stop sugar coating it.
Black people have had to develop a thick skin. So don’t tell me not to be sensitive. I actually wish I had that luxury, but I don’t. When I get upset over how I’m treated, not too many White people are going to put their arms around me and say, “There, there, I feel your pain.” I just get labeled as some oversensitive black woman with an attitude. Differences are what make us special and the similarities are what make us human.
Just my thoughts….CJHP~Pinson
7
Attempts to solve "racial problems" appear to be hung to some extent on the race/non-race issue. We are sometime required to see race and address it as a "problem", at other times told that "race" (along with gender) is a construct devoid of inherent meaning. Are we different from one another according to the racial/ethnic/gender groups with which we identify? Or are we all "the same"? The answer is "neither" and "both" and we don't seem to be able to get around that.
2
"A History of White Delusion."
An appropriate title for Kristof's series of articles endorsing white guilt.
An appropriate title for Kristof's series of articles endorsing white guilt.
12
Apart from the systemic issues that you highlight, the everyday racism that people face at shops, bars, and restaurants are not only prevalent, but getting worse. The only way I could comfortably go to a restaurant and be sure of being admitted without any hesitancy, and upon admittance not being shown a table next to the kitchen or toilet door, is only when I am with a white friend. Even when the restaurant is virtually empty, the treatment a person-of-color receives is not very different. The next step of being served better food could only be ensured by having the white friend play a game of ordering for me, while I order for him or her, and switch them when the order arrives.
2
Some states such as California do not depend upon local taxes to fund schools, but use a state-wide allocation based on student population in local districts. Additional state funding for schools with high poverty levels are then applied, plus Title I federal funds go exclusively to schools with high poverty rates. The end result is that many high poverty schools actually receive more per pupil public funding. Often however those schools in high income areas additionally benefit from private contributions through PTA's, community support, etc. The net result is that even if high poverty schools get more per pupil public funding their academic results have remained well below average. Studies have shown the need for extensive early childhood education accompanied by increased parental involvement to better prepare their children to enter school enthused and ready to learn. Not easily done, but this remains the primary way to achieve broader, long term academic success. Pouring money in later on has shown little positive results.
6
"accompanied by increased parental involvement to better prepare their children to enter school enthused and ready to learn. "
It will be difficult, if not impossible, to generate "increased parental involvement" where there is a culture of not valuing education and going so far as to beat up those who do for "acting white".
It will be difficult, if not impossible, to generate "increased parental involvement" where there is a culture of not valuing education and going so far as to beat up those who do for "acting white".
2
It is outrageous that so many people do not recognize that blacks are at a disadvantage in so many ways. We are blind and deaf.
8
What is outrageous is that liberal social engineering is making things worse, but PhDs in ivory tower are unwilling to recognise that social engineering, while the moral culture is deliberately degraded and allowed to decay, is same as rearranging deck chairs on Titanic.
7
Mr. Kristoff,
Reposting my earlier comment to the Charles Blow report, this morning -
"Mr. Blow, this report, you just penned, is far and away the best analysis I have read, ever read, on what is egregiously wrong here in our anything but United, United States.
I came here as an immigrant, in the '60's, and saw the ugly thing we know as racism, for the first time, specifically racism against black Americans, outright in your face, even practised by our leaders, racism.
I saw the riots, the murders, and the utter injustice of it all, and realized I had landed in an alien world, where the majority of white people, and it was, and still is a majority, made so by those who pretend otherwise, a majority who to a man believed they were superior to black Americans.
As I lived, and worked, these last 51 years in NYC and it's environs, whites became ever more subtle in their practise of racism, essentially doing it through a new modern form of slavery, economic slavery, in your face, with no regrets, economic slavery..
The only part I disagree with, in your report, is "We have areas of concentrated poverty in our cities in part because of a long legacy of discriminatory urban policies"
Instead of "cities", you should have said, "every community, village, town, city, state, everywhere across our land, our, defined as every etnicity, most especially black Americans.
We fix it first, by telling the truth, and then unequivocally levelling that truth at white America".
Reposting my earlier comment to the Charles Blow report, this morning -
"Mr. Blow, this report, you just penned, is far and away the best analysis I have read, ever read, on what is egregiously wrong here in our anything but United, United States.
I came here as an immigrant, in the '60's, and saw the ugly thing we know as racism, for the first time, specifically racism against black Americans, outright in your face, even practised by our leaders, racism.
I saw the riots, the murders, and the utter injustice of it all, and realized I had landed in an alien world, where the majority of white people, and it was, and still is a majority, made so by those who pretend otherwise, a majority who to a man believed they were superior to black Americans.
As I lived, and worked, these last 51 years in NYC and it's environs, whites became ever more subtle in their practise of racism, essentially doing it through a new modern form of slavery, economic slavery, in your face, with no regrets, economic slavery..
The only part I disagree with, in your report, is "We have areas of concentrated poverty in our cities in part because of a long legacy of discriminatory urban policies"
Instead of "cities", you should have said, "every community, village, town, city, state, everywhere across our land, our, defined as every etnicity, most especially black Americans.
We fix it first, by telling the truth, and then unequivocally levelling that truth at white America".
9
News flash, Dr. Williams. I'm white and I have the exact same feelings about the police as you do, “I support you. I defend you. I will care for you. That doesn’t mean I will not fear you.” My fears aren't racially-based, they're based on too many instances of police incompetence, corruption, and outright lawlessness. Ruby Ridge Idaho, Waco Texas, the Winter Hill Mob, Fast and Furious, being jumped and beaten by a gang and the cops saying we didn't see it and nothing we can do about it.
You best safety no matter what race you are, is to get to know your local police officers as individuals so that they know who you are too. That way you won't be a faceless anonymous black, white, Hispanic, oriental or middle eastern man they just happen to stop.
You best safety no matter what race you are, is to get to know your local police officers as individuals so that they know who you are too. That way you won't be a faceless anonymous black, white, Hispanic, oriental or middle eastern man they just happen to stop.
8
For different reasons, but I too am suspicious of all cops until I'm sure I'm in the presence of a professional, sensitive, smart one. White lady here.
3
Google IQ requirements for police officers; one thing you will find, is a Connecticut case wherein a potential officer was rated too "intelligent" to be a police officer; it seems the preferred police officer, is one who tests on the low side of average.
And believe it or not, the decision of the court was upheld, so most of those gun toting "peace officers" especially the thugs among them, are mentally challenged.
And believe it or not, the decision of the court was upheld, so most of those gun toting "peace officers" especially the thugs among them, are mentally challenged.
The New York Times's long-term campaign to make whites feel guilty for every crime that blacks commit is going down in flames. Look at the latest polls. Trump has yet to run a single general election ad, and he's tied with the Times's candidate!
Do you think that just might have anything to do with the poisoning racial climate created by this president and his crime-loving liberal allies?
Do you think that just might have anything to do with the poisoning racial climate created by this president and his crime-loving liberal allies?
13
No
4
Republicans want to cut every program that helps the middle class and poor while cutting taxes in the rich. They see discrimination but blame those who are discriminated against. Democrats let them control the narrative. We need big changes.
9
I have come to the conclusion that the despite the efforts of reasonable people who believe in justice and equality for all Americans (and citizens of the world), a large contingent of Americans whose slogan is "White Lives Matter More" persists. They simple cannot accept that if you tore off their skin, you would not be able to tell us apart. It is frightening and tragic.
4
As Louis CK said (not exact quote)"we (white people) are privileged already just by having white skin." White skin does not make you a target. Black skin does. I don't know who these polls talk to but I never thought Blacks had the opportunities white people have. We are all still prejudiced in some regard be it in big issues or small ones. I, as a Jew, can hide my identity as it isn't written on my skin. A black person can never hide his or her identity and that is the problem. We have to dig deeper as to why we fear and malign dark colored skin.
4
I was aware of racism in the 1960s, and was appalled by it. Although I was not an activist, I supported the Civil Rights movement. Dr. King's message of a color blind society was music to my ears, because that's how I was brought up, and what I hoped for. So I have no reason to be delusional on the subject, Nicholas--I would support Black Lives Matter today if I thought there was anything to it, or to them other than a lot of phony grandstanding.
You can't dismiss the progress, and yes it is very significant that we have a black President. Our obsession with race today, your obsession, borders on national neurosis. If you think we will wipe racism off the face of the earth, you can forget that. I (a white guy) was the object of racism by the Latino family of a woman I was seeing a long time ago. We broke up and I met someone better. Problem solved.
That's life, man. Win some, lose some; meet some good people, meet some jerks. Welcome to the human race. If you choose to keep redefining racism downward, I'm not sure where that will end for you. You're like some germophobe afraid to touch anything. Where you see might see racism today, I might see freaked-out cops trying to do a dangerous job. We should let them know we appreciate what they do and, by the way, many cops are black.
So, Nicholas, one of us may be delusional. I'm thinking it's you.
You can't dismiss the progress, and yes it is very significant that we have a black President. Our obsession with race today, your obsession, borders on national neurosis. If you think we will wipe racism off the face of the earth, you can forget that. I (a white guy) was the object of racism by the Latino family of a woman I was seeing a long time ago. We broke up and I met someone better. Problem solved.
That's life, man. Win some, lose some; meet some good people, meet some jerks. Welcome to the human race. If you choose to keep redefining racism downward, I'm not sure where that will end for you. You're like some germophobe afraid to touch anything. Where you see might see racism today, I might see freaked-out cops trying to do a dangerous job. We should let them know we appreciate what they do and, by the way, many cops are black.
So, Nicholas, one of us may be delusional. I'm thinking it's you.
43
How about just being for fairness? for equality; for treating peoples as humans, with feelings. How about that?
1
": poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race
: the belief that some races of people are better than others"
Show me the downward definition. Vietnam was not WW II: it was still a war
: the belief that some races of people are better than others"
Show me the downward definition. Vietnam was not WW II: it was still a war
2
Look beyond the issue of police, Malcolm. Minorities are basically imprisoned in ghettos rife with violence, under-resourced schools, unemployment, poor transportation, poor nutrition. The outlook for a 5 yr old child in south chicago is much different than for a 5 year old in the Chicago suburbs. If you think that's ok, well, that's why protesters see a need to try to convince you that black lives matter, because in accepting that disparity you are implicitly accepting the notion that they don't matter enough.
No one is dismissing the progress but to think that discrimination just magically ended with the passing of the Civil Rights Act is indeed delusional.
No one is dismissing the progress but to think that discrimination just magically ended with the passing of the Civil Rights Act is indeed delusional.
3
I am a 75 year old lawyer from Texas. I agree with everything you wrote, Mr. Kristof. My partner is part African American and I am glad to say that I have not witnessed any discrimination against him, but he is fair skinned. My family believed that everyone should be treated equally and thank God they instilled those values in us.
Racial injustice is the thorniest issue of my life and is still the largest challenge facing us as a nation. I have no answers but we should strive to treat all people equally. I was interning in D.C. in the summer of 1963 and watched the "I Have A Dream" speech. I still consider it the greatest speech of the 20th century.
Racial injustice is the thorniest issue of my life and is still the largest challenge facing us as a nation. I have no answers but we should strive to treat all people equally. I was interning in D.C. in the summer of 1963 and watched the "I Have A Dream" speech. I still consider it the greatest speech of the 20th century.
7
The racism of many white Americans, mostly unrecognized or denied by them, is bred deep in our bones and DNA. It is conditioned, subconscious, and therefore largely intractable - that is the tragedy we have inherited from the founding of our country and culture, which were designed to permit, excuse, and even glorify the ownership and enslaving of one "race" of humans by another. It's a hugely dangerous conceit to believe such a toxic heritage can simply fade away in a mere few centuries. Until white Americans are ready to look deeply into themselves as individuals, discern their own racist conditioning, and act to change themselves and their institutions, we will all be the victims of this curse, and our world and children will continue to pay the fearful price.
5
An increasing problem in America is discrimination and neglect of lower class people of all races by the wealthy elites of all races. Sociologists and demographers predict that the human race will eventually meld into one race resembling café au lait. So racism WILL eventually end. What will never end is classism - unless the poor and working class rise up and demand its end.
3
As long as humans remain biological entities, I am afraid, some level of class division will always exist because of biological variation in ability, and random luck. Now, if we are all upgraded bionically to have equal superhuman abilities, divisions might cease to exist.
2
Mr. Kristof, you are absolutely right. You have been discussing this issue in your columns countless times. Unfortunately, it seems to do little good. But there is no choice, and I urge you to keep bringing up this subject over and over again. Something good may just happen someday.
3
I am a white American. I can still remember the shock I felt watching a Diane Sawyer PrimeTime investigative of racial disparity filmed in 1991. It opened my eyes forever.
Two best friends, one white and the other black, with nearly identical backgrounds get off a bus in St. Louis and proceed to try to find housing, a job and to simply shop in a record store while wearing hidden cameras. The white man had an easy experience just as I would. The black friend on the other hand was treated with suspicion and gross disrespect. In one scene the white man is offered an application to rent an apartment. He leaves the office and is followed in by the black friend. The manager tells him there are no apartments available. At that point Diane Sawyer gets out of a van outside and enters the building with a cameraman following. She confronts the manager with video of his blatant racism. He was angry. I was horrified. I have never forgotten it.
For 25 years I have been telling my white friends that this episode should be required viewing for all white people. It is simply impossible for us to have the same first-hand experience that African Americans have. It is clear that most white people need to SEE the discrimination to BELIEVE the discrimination.
If you are uncertain what is meant by “white privilege” watch this episode. I found it on youtube. The title is "Racial Bias In St. Louis Revealed Via Hidden Camera - Diane Sawyer PrimeTime 1991". https://youtu.be/8XprcqeZ5-E
Two best friends, one white and the other black, with nearly identical backgrounds get off a bus in St. Louis and proceed to try to find housing, a job and to simply shop in a record store while wearing hidden cameras. The white man had an easy experience just as I would. The black friend on the other hand was treated with suspicion and gross disrespect. In one scene the white man is offered an application to rent an apartment. He leaves the office and is followed in by the black friend. The manager tells him there are no apartments available. At that point Diane Sawyer gets out of a van outside and enters the building with a cameraman following. She confronts the manager with video of his blatant racism. He was angry. I was horrified. I have never forgotten it.
For 25 years I have been telling my white friends that this episode should be required viewing for all white people. It is simply impossible for us to have the same first-hand experience that African Americans have. It is clear that most white people need to SEE the discrimination to BELIEVE the discrimination.
If you are uncertain what is meant by “white privilege” watch this episode. I found it on youtube. The title is "Racial Bias In St. Louis Revealed Via Hidden Camera - Diane Sawyer PrimeTime 1991". https://youtu.be/8XprcqeZ5-E
12
When I was about 5 we lived in married student housing at the University of Illinois.
According to our widowed mother, there was one black family. When their children came to the playground most white parents brought their children indoors.
I actually do not remember any black children. I think the other white kids do to this day.
According to our widowed mother, there was one black family. When their children came to the playground most white parents brought their children indoors.
I actually do not remember any black children. I think the other white kids do to this day.
Bias is a sad fact. Also, terrible choices lead to terrible results.
1
Terrible choices like bringing blacks into the country shackled, as slaves?
Because that certainly did lead to "terrible results"!
AMEN!
Because that certainly did lead to "terrible results"!
AMEN!
1
Continuing the Grey Lady's use of anecdote when statistics should be used.
Here is the most shocking one I can think of - close to one-third of Black men in their 20's will be involved in the criminal justice system at a point in time either incarcerated, on parole or on trial.
http://www.sentencingproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Young-Black-...
That is not a statistic that is even close for young Black Women - nor is it close for Black men who immigrate to America so it can't be the color of the skin.
No - indeed it is an ethos developed and perpetuated by the leadership of talking heads and performers that glorify the thug life of drugs, violence, misogyny, racism, and excuses.
And those who call the cold hard statistics a "delusion"
Here is the most shocking one I can think of - close to one-third of Black men in their 20's will be involved in the criminal justice system at a point in time either incarcerated, on parole or on trial.
http://www.sentencingproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Young-Black-...
That is not a statistic that is even close for young Black Women - nor is it close for Black men who immigrate to America so it can't be the color of the skin.
No - indeed it is an ethos developed and perpetuated by the leadership of talking heads and performers that glorify the thug life of drugs, violence, misogyny, racism, and excuses.
And those who call the cold hard statistics a "delusion"
12
Do you think that if a larger percentage of black men are arrested for similar behavior to white men that that may influence your "hard facts"? Have you made an attempt the eliminate variables that may influence the final outcome?
1
yes, we have all sorts of tolls that can help the black population get past the discrimination they receive, BUT, they have to be way more pro-active in their own communities in reducing drug use, broken homes, out-of-wedlock births, biases aginst "acting white" by emphasizing getting an education, and so on.
The white community can only do so much to help - the majority of the work needs to be done by the blacks themselves.
The white community can only do so much to help - the majority of the work needs to be done by the blacks themselves.
9
31 lower-income Abbot school districts (5% of 588 total districts), receive 70 percent of New Jersey state education aid. Spending in Newark is $20k+ per pupil.
6
There are certainly structural issues in society that deny equal opportunities to underprivileged groups, and many of them affect blacks disproportionately. One would have to be blind, not just delusional, to deny this. These issues need to be worked on, and it will be a long, slow process as fixing them will not be cheap or easy.
In the meantime, each of us can, while working on the long term fix of the cause, contribute to ameliorating the result. All of us; black, white, latino or whatever, need to hold up people like Dr. Walker as our heros to emulate, not rockers, rappers, and racists of any color. We need to take the high road and decide for ourselves, and teach our children, that education, even when it is hard to get, is a better path to long term success, nay survival, over a life of crime. We need to live our lives treating people by what they, as individuals, have done to us. All black youth are not thugs; all cops are not fascists. Some of each are, a small minority, and the others in the groups need to stop excusing and protecting the bad apples in the group. We need to testify when we see these things happening in our group, not just against the other folk.
These are actions each of us can take everyday. These are actions we do not need a PAC, a mass movement, or a leader to undertake. These are actions that will not only help to solve the underlying problems, but will make living with the problems until solutions are found much better for all of us.
In the meantime, each of us can, while working on the long term fix of the cause, contribute to ameliorating the result. All of us; black, white, latino or whatever, need to hold up people like Dr. Walker as our heros to emulate, not rockers, rappers, and racists of any color. We need to take the high road and decide for ourselves, and teach our children, that education, even when it is hard to get, is a better path to long term success, nay survival, over a life of crime. We need to live our lives treating people by what they, as individuals, have done to us. All black youth are not thugs; all cops are not fascists. Some of each are, a small minority, and the others in the groups need to stop excusing and protecting the bad apples in the group. We need to testify when we see these things happening in our group, not just against the other folk.
These are actions each of us can take everyday. These are actions we do not need a PAC, a mass movement, or a leader to undertake. These are actions that will not only help to solve the underlying problems, but will make living with the problems until solutions are found much better for all of us.
4
More power to you, Nick!
Having lived 18 years in France and since living near Rahm's Chicago; this 60 yr old White guy sees a soft apartheid system when he sees one.
check out this excellent report on the schools:
https://www.wbez.org/shows/wbez-news/a-tale-of-two-schools-lincoln-gets-...
Having lived 18 years in France and since living near Rahm's Chicago; this 60 yr old White guy sees a soft apartheid system when he sees one.
check out this excellent report on the schools:
https://www.wbez.org/shows/wbez-news/a-tale-of-two-schools-lincoln-gets-...
2
OK, Dr. Kristof, what is you remedy for "delusion?" Are you deluded into thinking that flagellation of half of the US population will suddenly open minds that purportedly are functioning on an unconscious level to acceptance of a reality that you indicate reigns?
Throughout US history, the melting pot, so to speak, has occurred in the public sphere, not so much in private lives, where race, religion and culture tend to dominate attitudes and behaviour. Perhaps, Mr. Kristof, you were too young to see "Annie Hall," especially the scene in which Annie's family served ham to Woody Allen at a Thanksgiving dinner. Harmless? Of course, it depends on where you are sitting. Of course, Woody needn't have gone to the dinner.
Is there a moral? Yes. Policing, for one, is a matter of public policy that largely can be rectified by public policies, including dismissal, career-killing performance reviews, holding superiors responsible for the actions of subordinates, and federal prosecution where local remedies had proven to be inadequate. The behaviour of the police towards the companion and her child, after the unwarranted killing in St. Paul, for example, indicates either a non-existent procedural manual, or full failure to comply with procedures.
Instead of high sounding pronouncements and blanket statements perhaps one should get involved with the boring details of actual changes that have an effect on how the world works.
Throughout US history, the melting pot, so to speak, has occurred in the public sphere, not so much in private lives, where race, religion and culture tend to dominate attitudes and behaviour. Perhaps, Mr. Kristof, you were too young to see "Annie Hall," especially the scene in which Annie's family served ham to Woody Allen at a Thanksgiving dinner. Harmless? Of course, it depends on where you are sitting. Of course, Woody needn't have gone to the dinner.
Is there a moral? Yes. Policing, for one, is a matter of public policy that largely can be rectified by public policies, including dismissal, career-killing performance reviews, holding superiors responsible for the actions of subordinates, and federal prosecution where local remedies had proven to be inadequate. The behaviour of the police towards the companion and her child, after the unwarranted killing in St. Paul, for example, indicates either a non-existent procedural manual, or full failure to comply with procedures.
Instead of high sounding pronouncements and blanket statements perhaps one should get involved with the boring details of actual changes that have an effect on how the world works.
1
Nick, you are 100% on the mark. I am guilty of white delusion and am just recently realizing how much racism is institutionalized in our culture. Not enough white people know about it, and it needs to be brought to the forefront of our discussions on race. I am appalled, discouraged, and dismayed to hear about the systemic racism in our society - overt and covert. We are better than this. But how do we change a mindset?
48
Few dry eyes last night on CNN when Charles Blow of NY Times so poignantly discussed how inner-city ghettos were created by city-planned and approved actions, chopping up black neighborhoods to make way for freeways and subways while resettling minorities in poorer, less-valuable areas in cities; plus real estate redlining and higher-interest rate mortgages if you’re black or minority; and other historic restrictions and city ordinances where blacks were not allowed to live or legally acquire properties.
As late as the 1950s, a black family could NOT legally own a home in certain parts of the Northwest quadrant of Washington DC; many laws have changed but we are no way in a “post-racial” period as our fellow citizens suffer still in all sorts of discrimination! Modern-day debtor prisons, supposedly outlawed, still exist by over-criminalizing blacks for activities that would be overlooked if whites were doing the same thing, all the while enriching tax bases in towns where taxes are greatly diminished and filling our for-profit prisons with so many black and brown bodies!
Continued violence imposed by mean-spirited cops across America is not an illusion! This film shows one young black man being beaten up by cops for no good reason other than he was black and they could get away with it. This is why mothers and their sons are crying today, along with their friends and families:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P9-BjYxTu8
White people, you can’t make this stuff up!!!
As late as the 1950s, a black family could NOT legally own a home in certain parts of the Northwest quadrant of Washington DC; many laws have changed but we are no way in a “post-racial” period as our fellow citizens suffer still in all sorts of discrimination! Modern-day debtor prisons, supposedly outlawed, still exist by over-criminalizing blacks for activities that would be overlooked if whites were doing the same thing, all the while enriching tax bases in towns where taxes are greatly diminished and filling our for-profit prisons with so many black and brown bodies!
Continued violence imposed by mean-spirited cops across America is not an illusion! This film shows one young black man being beaten up by cops for no good reason other than he was black and they could get away with it. This is why mothers and their sons are crying today, along with their friends and families:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P9-BjYxTu8
White people, you can’t make this stuff up!!!
8
When I talk to other white people about race, on social media or in person, this is frequently what their reaction boils down to: "White privilege? White privilege is a myth. I've got no privilege at all. And someone needs to stop those blacks and Muslims and Mexicans from taking it away from me."
Cognitive dissonance. The ability to hold two contradictory ideas at once. Like "keep your government hands off my Medicare."
Privilege does not mean "every white person is treated like a prince or princess on a throne." Privilege does not mean "I get everything I want in life." It's quite simple: just do a thought experiment. Imagine that you wake up tomorrow morning, and your skin has changed from the pale color I share with you, to a chocolate brown hue. Everything else remains the same. Are you really telling me that NOTHING in your life would change? More likely, if you're honest, that mere fantasy allows you to feel the "whoooooosh" of your formerly-unacknowledged privilege slipping away. You'd be questioned for your competence and intelligence. You'd be thought of as lazy and useless. You'd be branded a criminal. Not by all people, but by enough of them that your life would change. Yet you'd still be exactly the same person.
Being judged by your true value is "white privilege" in our racist culture. Everyone will have that privilege when no one has it.
Cognitive dissonance. The ability to hold two contradictory ideas at once. Like "keep your government hands off my Medicare."
Privilege does not mean "every white person is treated like a prince or princess on a throne." Privilege does not mean "I get everything I want in life." It's quite simple: just do a thought experiment. Imagine that you wake up tomorrow morning, and your skin has changed from the pale color I share with you, to a chocolate brown hue. Everything else remains the same. Are you really telling me that NOTHING in your life would change? More likely, if you're honest, that mere fantasy allows you to feel the "whoooooosh" of your formerly-unacknowledged privilege slipping away. You'd be questioned for your competence and intelligence. You'd be thought of as lazy and useless. You'd be branded a criminal. Not by all people, but by enough of them that your life would change. Yet you'd still be exactly the same person.
Being judged by your true value is "white privilege" in our racist culture. Everyone will have that privilege when no one has it.
7
Or, the ideas that some hold about blacks come their experiences interacting and observing.
An acquaintance posted something I considered racist, blaming African-Americans for, well, everything, and I had one question for her: would you change your skin color to theirs to prove that you would be treated the same?
When you have an entire classification of citizens (Black parents) that have a known communal need to have "The Talk" with their children, primarily their sons, THERE IS A PROBLEM. It is universal and profound. And it is a reality. To deny gravity doesn't make you float. Just because I haven't experienced micro and macro aggressions from those in power doesn't mean that others haven't. When one person claimed abuse by a celebrity, there was doubt. But as scores of people, with virtually identical stories come forward, the veil is lifted and we see clearly, even if it means a hero is knocked off a pedestal. We all need to hear what the Black community is saying and make the changes needed to stop the discrimination.
77
Well the same could be said for women, white or black. They need to hear "The talk" about how to dress and what to say to men.
And if an hero, like Bill Cosby, is knocked of his pedestal then what is to be said about a black man who has power to force women to do something they don't want to do. What does the black community have to say about that? How many blacks have spoken against old Bill?
It goes both ways, black or white.
And if an hero, like Bill Cosby, is knocked of his pedestal then what is to be said about a black man who has power to force women to do something they don't want to do. What does the black community have to say about that? How many blacks have spoken against old Bill?
It goes both ways, black or white.
2
The author attempts to conflate discrimination and racism with the negative consequences from each individuals actions and decisions. Low expectations reveal so much about someone.
5
The facts are the facts, and Nicholas Kristoff lays them out very clearly. Clearly whites are delusional about black-white relations in America. So, what are the impediments to change?
Too many whites will still argue that there is no problem, or that things are not that bad, or are getting better, or that it takes time. But, the divide persists, and how is to be fixed?
The education gap is the biggest challenge because it affects the young generations robbing them of opportunity if they do not have quality education. The remedies are probably legion, but there must be a political and societal will to fix it.
The culture social gap is another major challenge. Economic class differences fuel the problem. Economic classes tend separate themselves, willfully among the rich, inadvertently among the poor. The rich have a rich culture and a dislike for the culture of the poor. The poor, lacking the education and skills of the rich, have a different culture. But, even among poor whites and poor blacks, the poor whites tend to think of themselves as above the poor blacks. We need practical dialogue and educational programs to fix these delusional misconceptions and prejudices between classes.
The fact that whites are delusional is a tool for pointing out that there is a tragic problem. Having a political and societal will to work on the education and social gaps would be first major steps.
Too many whites will still argue that there is no problem, or that things are not that bad, or are getting better, or that it takes time. But, the divide persists, and how is to be fixed?
The education gap is the biggest challenge because it affects the young generations robbing them of opportunity if they do not have quality education. The remedies are probably legion, but there must be a political and societal will to fix it.
The culture social gap is another major challenge. Economic class differences fuel the problem. Economic classes tend separate themselves, willfully among the rich, inadvertently among the poor. The rich have a rich culture and a dislike for the culture of the poor. The poor, lacking the education and skills of the rich, have a different culture. But, even among poor whites and poor blacks, the poor whites tend to think of themselves as above the poor blacks. We need practical dialogue and educational programs to fix these delusional misconceptions and prejudices between classes.
The fact that whites are delusional is a tool for pointing out that there is a tragic problem. Having a political and societal will to work on the education and social gaps would be first major steps.
3
One can echo the good doctor's thoughts in thinking of young, black males. I support them through volunteer activities and charitable contributions, but that does not mean that I do not fear them.
3
The largest threat to this doctors life, is NOT the police. It's not even close.
The only delusional people here are those who think this doctor will most likely meet his end at the hands of the police...any guesses as to the ACTUAL biggest threat to his life?
The only delusional people here are those who think this doctor will most likely meet his end at the hands of the police...any guesses as to the ACTUAL biggest threat to his life?
1
"... an education system that routinely sends the neediest black students to underfunded, third-rate schools, while directing bountiful resources to affluent white schools."
I think that the disparity in the educational system is a shame and I don't know if suspension from preschool is necessarily a good idea. However, columns like this make it sound like kids in inner city schools are the inert recipients of substandard conditions when in fact they foment and contribute to the very disorder that oppresses them. Kids throw things at teachers, hit them or pretend (i.e., threaten) to, and in general contribute to an atmosphere of violence and insecurity. On his first day on the job, a middle school teacher gets called "white boy" by one of the students. Near the end of the school year, at a public function, the principal of a junior high school has a glass bottle thrown at her feet. This is not going to occur, or is much less likely to occur, at an "affluent white school." Inner city schools just are more violent and disorderly, and the kids, for whatever reason, contribute to that. I don't know whether this justifies a higher rate of preschool suspensions or not, but it is an aspect of the situation that Kristof's analysis omits.
I think that the disparity in the educational system is a shame and I don't know if suspension from preschool is necessarily a good idea. However, columns like this make it sound like kids in inner city schools are the inert recipients of substandard conditions when in fact they foment and contribute to the very disorder that oppresses them. Kids throw things at teachers, hit them or pretend (i.e., threaten) to, and in general contribute to an atmosphere of violence and insecurity. On his first day on the job, a middle school teacher gets called "white boy" by one of the students. Near the end of the school year, at a public function, the principal of a junior high school has a glass bottle thrown at her feet. This is not going to occur, or is much less likely to occur, at an "affluent white school." Inner city schools just are more violent and disorderly, and the kids, for whatever reason, contribute to that. I don't know whether this justifies a higher rate of preschool suspensions or not, but it is an aspect of the situation that Kristof's analysis omits.
2
"That contradicts overwhelming research showing that blacks are more likely to be suspended from preschool, to be prosecuted for drug use ...."
One of the main disconnects between the liberal view (which Kristof espouses) and the conservative view is whether one should measure disparity by looking solely at outcomes or look instead at the difference in incidence as well as outcomes.
Kristof speaks of outcomes when he speaks of "being suspended from preschool, prosecuted, etc." But the reality is that blacks commit crime in significantly higher proportions than whites. See link below from Obama's own Justice Department showing that blacks committed murder at 7x the rate of whites - and over 100x the killings of unarmed blacks by police.
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf
Kristoff speaks about discrimination in housing but does not address that the difference (as far as mortgage approvals) is due to a significant difference in FICO scores between blacks and whites.
And isn't it likely that disparities in job offers may be due to differences in education where 29% of blacks fail to graduate high school. College matriculation is about equal but 39% of blacks graduate compared to 62% of whites.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/race-gap-narrows-in-college-enrollme...
Is it really racism when blacks make bad choices regarding crime, family and education more often than whites ? Bad consequences follow from bad choices - not racism.
One of the main disconnects between the liberal view (which Kristof espouses) and the conservative view is whether one should measure disparity by looking solely at outcomes or look instead at the difference in incidence as well as outcomes.
Kristof speaks of outcomes when he speaks of "being suspended from preschool, prosecuted, etc." But the reality is that blacks commit crime in significantly higher proportions than whites. See link below from Obama's own Justice Department showing that blacks committed murder at 7x the rate of whites - and over 100x the killings of unarmed blacks by police.
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf
Kristoff speaks about discrimination in housing but does not address that the difference (as far as mortgage approvals) is due to a significant difference in FICO scores between blacks and whites.
And isn't it likely that disparities in job offers may be due to differences in education where 29% of blacks fail to graduate high school. College matriculation is about equal but 39% of blacks graduate compared to 62% of whites.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/race-gap-narrows-in-college-enrollme...
Is it really racism when blacks make bad choices regarding crime, family and education more often than whites ? Bad consequences follow from bad choices - not racism.
4
Many Whites continue to delude themselves into believing in racial equality. They often cite President Obama. They tell us, see, we elected a Black man president. Then, not soon after, they'll lower the boom, adding: so much good that did.
Whites who love Trump don't even realize the divisive hate speech he spews. Some love it. They think Trump is speaking to them personally, expressing their frustrations, their anger, oblivious to the fact Trump has never experienced anything close to their trials and tribulations. The only thing Trump shares with them is their skin color and that alone is enough to make the poorest white slob identify with a billionaire blowhard, con man, who is in this campaign for the fame and money he'll make for the Trump brand. What Trump did for his "University" he will do to America. Make no mistake, Trump will make this the greatest deal of his lifetime. As for the country, well, good luck, chumps.
DD
Manhattan
Whites who love Trump don't even realize the divisive hate speech he spews. Some love it. They think Trump is speaking to them personally, expressing their frustrations, their anger, oblivious to the fact Trump has never experienced anything close to their trials and tribulations. The only thing Trump shares with them is their skin color and that alone is enough to make the poorest white slob identify with a billionaire blowhard, con man, who is in this campaign for the fame and money he'll make for the Trump brand. What Trump did for his "University" he will do to America. Make no mistake, Trump will make this the greatest deal of his lifetime. As for the country, well, good luck, chumps.
DD
Manhattan
2
The issue isn't so much whether whites are deluded. We may be in some proportion underestimating the breadth of discrimination that occurs, notwithstanding our own personal perspectives on ourselves. The better and much harder question to ask is what to do about it and would it make a difference.
Mr. Kristof hits at the heart of the matter - education. For so long, public education has not served the needs of children - black and white - as it seems these schools purpose more often than not is to facilitate the employment of unionized teachers rather than educate our kids. True, suburban, mostly white schools tend to perform better, but still not to the level that they need to. Addressing this issue is the biggest opportunity for us to advance better lives for blacks, whites, and non-black minorities. But until our schools can have a culture of excellence, not a culture of union rules, the rest of this doesn't matter. The sooner we embark on this effort, the fewer lost generations there will be.
Mr. Kristof hits at the heart of the matter - education. For so long, public education has not served the needs of children - black and white - as it seems these schools purpose more often than not is to facilitate the employment of unionized teachers rather than educate our kids. True, suburban, mostly white schools tend to perform better, but still not to the level that they need to. Addressing this issue is the biggest opportunity for us to advance better lives for blacks, whites, and non-black minorities. But until our schools can have a culture of excellence, not a culture of union rules, the rest of this doesn't matter. The sooner we embark on this effort, the fewer lost generations there will be.
4
I still don't understand how admitting our biases or acknowledging past wrongs will change anything for black people moving forward. Whites can't make personal decisions for black people and have no control over outcomes in their lives. I'm just a guy in Oklahoma. I don't particularly like or trust cops--they generally seem to be people who have a fetish to "show who's boss". I can't relate to that. At the same time, I'm not in any position to affect change in any meaningful way. I expect people to respond, "Well you need to support policies that do XYZ.." without any empirical proof that meaningful change will occur.
2
The good signs. I have a small shop in a small touristy town in Maryland near Baltimore. Interracial couples have become much the norm. Teenage groupings are more often than not a mix. Male couples do not turn heads. Strangely, women holding hands still seems to get reactions. Go figure.
That seems to me progress, and cause for hope. What we Americans have to come to grips with, I believe, is that the Civil War was not about equality, or maybe not really about ending slavery at the top. The history of the relations after the War between white Americans and those Americans no longer slaves is consistently about inequality. (I like to avoid the word racism. You can be unconcerned without being racist.)
My growing up period really begins in the 1950's. It has often seemed that the problem would dissipate as the new generation matured along with a greater awareness of the unfairness of it all. I still think this may happen. But it is also very clear that we have to solve the institutional side of the issue. Black Americans do not need to be carried, they need to be allowed to carry themselves.
That seems to me progress, and cause for hope. What we Americans have to come to grips with, I believe, is that the Civil War was not about equality, or maybe not really about ending slavery at the top. The history of the relations after the War between white Americans and those Americans no longer slaves is consistently about inequality. (I like to avoid the word racism. You can be unconcerned without being racist.)
My growing up period really begins in the 1950's. It has often seemed that the problem would dissipate as the new generation matured along with a greater awareness of the unfairness of it all. I still think this may happen. But it is also very clear that we have to solve the institutional side of the issue. Black Americans do not need to be carried, they need to be allowed to carry themselves.
Nicholas, challenge your assumptions -- go have yourself imbedded into a Police Department for two weeks -- this will change your thinking about a lot of issues. Also could you identify -- specifically -- those "abundant" public resources that are being devoted to communities you deem to be affluent at the expense of "poor" communities. Can you (or anyone else for that matter), provide an accurate accounting of how much public money - all public money --federal state, local and in some cases, private -- funding is actually provided to and for schools that operate in deprived communities?
2
It takes two hands to clap. Maybe one hand is much bigger and powerful and privileged than the other, and that is a matter of serious concern. But still, it takes two hands to clap.
1
Kristof's piece is not reporting, and it is filled with quirky logic of the same nature as that he argues against.
Brian Williams is proof that blacks can be what they want to be. He is proof that the 1962 poll is accurate.
Kristof's admitted acceptance of "facts" - that blacks are "more likely" to:
1. Be suspended from preschool
2. Be prosecuted for drug use
3. Be given longer prison sentences.
etc.
But many of these (he lists 7) are not facts at all. Others show exactly why people continue to discriminate against blacks, because history and precedent seems to show such discrimination justified. For every Brian Williams there are three Tawana Brawleys:
1. Blacks ARE more likely to be suspended in school. That's because blacks are worst at following instructions and do the things that get people supsended. It is no mystery or plot.
2. Blacks are more likely to be prosecuted for drug use. That's because blacks are more likely to do drugs, and to not complete alternative sentencing.
3. It is simply not true that blacks are given longer sentences than whites. In fact, in today's bleeding heart world, I'd say whites are more likely to receive the longer sentences, to try and even out the wide discrepancy in the prison population. Blacks at 18% commit over half of all violent crimes, for instance. Blacks and Hispanics, at 30%, committ 75% of all crime. This isn't racism against minorities. It's culling information about minorities from arrest statistics.
Brian Williams is proof that blacks can be what they want to be. He is proof that the 1962 poll is accurate.
Kristof's admitted acceptance of "facts" - that blacks are "more likely" to:
1. Be suspended from preschool
2. Be prosecuted for drug use
3. Be given longer prison sentences.
etc.
But many of these (he lists 7) are not facts at all. Others show exactly why people continue to discriminate against blacks, because history and precedent seems to show such discrimination justified. For every Brian Williams there are three Tawana Brawleys:
1. Blacks ARE more likely to be suspended in school. That's because blacks are worst at following instructions and do the things that get people supsended. It is no mystery or plot.
2. Blacks are more likely to be prosecuted for drug use. That's because blacks are more likely to do drugs, and to not complete alternative sentencing.
3. It is simply not true that blacks are given longer sentences than whites. In fact, in today's bleeding heart world, I'd say whites are more likely to receive the longer sentences, to try and even out the wide discrepancy in the prison population. Blacks at 18% commit over half of all violent crimes, for instance. Blacks and Hispanics, at 30%, committ 75% of all crime. This isn't racism against minorities. It's culling information about minorities from arrest statistics.
20
And your proofs?
I didn't think so.
I didn't think so.
3
Your point No. 1 is blatantly racist, and the target of your racist assumption is children as young as 5 years old.
Your point No. 2 is simply a lie -- studies have repeatedly shown that drug use rates are similar among whites and blacks.
Your point No. 2 is simply a lie -- studies have repeatedly shown that drug use rates are similar among whites and blacks.
5
Wow your math is bad
2
Kristof's proposition that Black folk don't have the same educational opportunities as White folk is a delusion. They have gone to the same schools as I have, my son's and daughter's schools both had populations of black students, In addition Kristof holds up Dr. Brian Williams who being a doctor clearly had the opportunities.
Education is an individual and family responsibility, the Federal Government simply cannot instill the desire, commitment, and discipline required to achieve a good education.
Education is an individual and family responsibility, the Federal Government simply cannot instill the desire, commitment, and discipline required to achieve a good education.
9
Have you ever attended an inner city school? Do that before making any uninformed statements that are based on purely anecdotal evidence
1
What makes the inner city schools so bad? Bad teachers, or undisciplined students? Do not black folk share some responsibility for ensuring their children go to school, be respectful to teachers and other students, study and do their homework, etc.? Blaming those like me will get you no where.
2
Thankfully, no.
My parents knew better than to make that mistake. Where you decide to live is an economic decision that affects the rest of your life. Move away from high crime areas if your childrens safety is important to you. If you choose not to move then...
To deny this is delusional...
My parents knew better than to make that mistake. Where you decide to live is an economic decision that affects the rest of your life. Move away from high crime areas if your childrens safety is important to you. If you choose not to move then...
To deny this is delusional...
I am an equal opportunity employer when it comes to guns.
Regardless of your race, color, creed, political affiliations, profession, social and economic status or the sports teams you support, if you carry a gun on you, I want to be somewhere else.
Regardless of your race, color, creed, political affiliations, profession, social and economic status or the sports teams you support, if you carry a gun on you, I want to be somewhere else.
8
I saw the interview with Dr. Williams. He was visibly upset, more than he would normally have been. I'd like a doctor like him if I ever have a serious emergency.
4
Democrats routinely get 90% of the black vote and have delivered Baltimore, Cleveland and Detroit. Maybe they should try Republicans.
13
People need to stop electing republicans to any office until they are willing to look honestly at what they have created. Blacks need to get out and vote in every single election; that is the only way anything will change.
3
Blacks have been voting for democrates in droves for decades now. Most inner cities and large urban areas are controlled by Democrats as a result. I don't need to spell out for you the results.
3
Correlation without causation
Hows that monolithic Democratic party vote workin out for yall?
2
To some extent even whites are negatively effected by racism against blacks. However, I cannot understand the attitude of those who believe racism is in the past. People are good at ignoring problems when they aren't effected by them often.
This problem is very American. We're a bit of a selfish lot. We tend to believe that hard work overcomes everything. Look at Martha Stuart's recent rediculous remark about millenials being lazy. Here's a newsflash: hard work doesn't overcome discrimination in most cases.
Why are we so often so judgemental? We all work hard, most of us. Perhaps this shatters the illusion that hard work guarantees success, and some people are just willfully ignorant of reality. There's nothing wrong with working hard as long as you don't carry a chip on your shoulder about it. Many Americans seem to have a chip on their shoulder, and they're proud of it.
This problem is very American. We're a bit of a selfish lot. We tend to believe that hard work overcomes everything. Look at Martha Stuart's recent rediculous remark about millenials being lazy. Here's a newsflash: hard work doesn't overcome discrimination in most cases.
Why are we so often so judgemental? We all work hard, most of us. Perhaps this shatters the illusion that hard work guarantees success, and some people are just willfully ignorant of reality. There's nothing wrong with working hard as long as you don't carry a chip on your shoulder about it. Many Americans seem to have a chip on their shoulder, and they're proud of it.
2
Profoundly true, and powerfully stated.
3
Thank you so much for doing this, so important, especially at this moment in our history. As we face so many challenges in our future, climate change, deleting resources, etc, we will ALL need to work together and work for the COMMON good and we will only be able to do that as we support and love each other---all of us!
1
One minor mistake, not really minor and not atypical of Kristoff's flawed analysis here. He tells us the system routinely sends poor black kids to "underfunded, third-rate schools." The link he provides says nothing about funding. It only shows that these schools score low in achievement. They may be third-rate, in other words, but they are absolutely NOT underfunded. Any quick perusal of statistics will show that there inner city schools get MORE money, not less, than most other schools in terms of per pupil spending.
18
Maybe, but . . .
I teach in the Cincinnati public school system. One reason our per-pupil cost is high is a preponderance of special-ed students. Most of the charter schools, church private schools and suburban schools in greater Cincinnati do not provide adequate services to special ed students, especially those wit significant physical or cognitive problems; they send these students to Cincinnati public schools. Since special ed students, as a group, require additional expensive resources (such as a full-time aide for one of my students with Asperger's syndrome), this practice saves their original schools money and raises significantly the per-pupil cost of the public school district that takes the students.
I teach in the Cincinnati public school system. One reason our per-pupil cost is high is a preponderance of special-ed students. Most of the charter schools, church private schools and suburban schools in greater Cincinnati do not provide adequate services to special ed students, especially those wit significant physical or cognitive problems; they send these students to Cincinnati public schools. Since special ed students, as a group, require additional expensive resources (such as a full-time aide for one of my students with Asperger's syndrome), this practice saves their original schools money and raises significantly the per-pupil cost of the public school district that takes the students.
2
Ok. Here we s an academic paper with significant lit review that demonstrates profoundly financial disparities. http://www.efc.gwu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/disparaties.pdf
Most school districts are funded through property taxes. Communities that are more affluent receive higher revenues. Is this reflected in education outcomes? Look at the numbers!
Most school districts are funded through property taxes. Communities that are more affluent receive higher revenues. Is this reflected in education outcomes? Look at the numbers!
1
It only shows local funding? How about showing the State's contribution? No? WHy? It doesnt support your argument?
No Kristof. You do not persuade. It is you who are delusional. Today, in the here-and-now, most whites understand very clearly what is going on around them. They understand that to zero in on a handful of unfortunate incidents to the exclusion of everything else they see and know, is itself a form of willful self delusion. Until ivory tower limousine liberals like yourself acknowledge the total reality of what is going on in our society, you will never persuade.
12
People who rely on anecdotal observations rarely see the larger picture. Do you not see that your statement directly supports this column's primary assumption?
1
As a late-middle-aged White male, I can say categorically that I have enjoyed "White Privilege" all my life. I recognize it, do not deny it, and certainly don't pretend it doesn't exist. It's like air. You aren't really aware of it....until you lose it.
Yet it is clear that most of my fellow Caucasians live in a state of Cognitive Dissonance, pretending there's no such thing. When doctors, lawyers and college professors regularly face de facto treatment by police as probable criminals, I, as a White man, have only been similarly stopped once in my life, and that was as a 20 year old long-haired college student walking home at night. Someone with long hair and a plaid jacket had robbed a convenience store. Yet unlike encounters Black men face regularly, the officer was super-polite and rather than assuming that I WAS the perp, assumed from my manners that I was NOT him, (which, of course, I wasn't). He did ask for ID, but didn't handcuff me, detain me for more than 2 minutes, or toss me in the back of his cruiser. After all, I was a White student at the local university.
I cannot say he would have treated a Black student differently, but though I would hope not, that would take a Panglos level of optimism. After all, Charles Blow's son, a student at Yale, received far harsher treatment not too long ago.
Denying White Privilege is inane and should be extended to ALL of us.
Yet it is clear that most of my fellow Caucasians live in a state of Cognitive Dissonance, pretending there's no such thing. When doctors, lawyers and college professors regularly face de facto treatment by police as probable criminals, I, as a White man, have only been similarly stopped once in my life, and that was as a 20 year old long-haired college student walking home at night. Someone with long hair and a plaid jacket had robbed a convenience store. Yet unlike encounters Black men face regularly, the officer was super-polite and rather than assuming that I WAS the perp, assumed from my manners that I was NOT him, (which, of course, I wasn't). He did ask for ID, but didn't handcuff me, detain me for more than 2 minutes, or toss me in the back of his cruiser. After all, I was a White student at the local university.
I cannot say he would have treated a Black student differently, but though I would hope not, that would take a Panglos level of optimism. After all, Charles Blow's son, a student at Yale, received far harsher treatment not too long ago.
Denying White Privilege is inane and should be extended to ALL of us.
13
My husband who studied in the U.S. once told me: being born white is a lottery win. As awful as this sounds, it seems to be often true. There are many circumstances that can influence the chances of a child to grow up well or. Ot but the color of skin should not be one of them.
5
As usual Kristof, very try very insightful, very compassionate...
1
The two questions that Kristof refers to in the article are educational disparity and job disparity.
Though I am a conservative, I partially agree with his skepticism regarding "black children have the same chance as white kids of getting a good education". As he has written before, part of the problem is the way we fund our schools through property taxes. By definition, more affluent towns will be able to throw greater resources towards their schools perpetuating the racial disparity.
But funding is not the only answer. I grew up in NJ which for decades has been subject to a number of court cases (called the Abbot Cases) which compel the state to send money sufficient to raise the spending of poor districts up to their richer peers. At this point, districts like Camden spend over $23,000 per student yet only 38% of students graduate high school.
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2011/06/06/School-Budgets-The-Wor...
Spending much be joined by educational reforms which have been proven to effectively teach poor and minority children - charters, longer school days, comparative metrics, etc.
If you address education equality, the employment disparity will likewise improve. See link below from the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education which finds that black and white college graduates earn approximately the same income. So where is the racism ?
http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/47_four-year_collegedegrees.html
Though I am a conservative, I partially agree with his skepticism regarding "black children have the same chance as white kids of getting a good education". As he has written before, part of the problem is the way we fund our schools through property taxes. By definition, more affluent towns will be able to throw greater resources towards their schools perpetuating the racial disparity.
But funding is not the only answer. I grew up in NJ which for decades has been subject to a number of court cases (called the Abbot Cases) which compel the state to send money sufficient to raise the spending of poor districts up to their richer peers. At this point, districts like Camden spend over $23,000 per student yet only 38% of students graduate high school.
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2011/06/06/School-Budgets-The-Wor...
Spending much be joined by educational reforms which have been proven to effectively teach poor and minority children - charters, longer school days, comparative metrics, etc.
If you address education equality, the employment disparity will likewise improve. See link below from the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education which finds that black and white college graduates earn approximately the same income. So where is the racism ?
http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/47_four-year_collegedegrees.html
6
I am a black woman, born in the early 80's in the South Bronx. I am educated, and have decent professional career, and my husband works in computers. We both grew up working class in the Bronx and Bklyn. We love to travel. But we both had to wait until we were adults with our own income to do this. Sometimes our presence garners some stares, but most people we encounter outside of the US consider us simply Americans. But at home in America, we are made to feel that no matter how long we are here, no matter how many generations of our people have and will be born in and live in the country, and even die for this country, we will never really be considered fully American.
The people descended from European immigrants who came here before the early 20th century have had generations to assimilate and intermarry. Many of those ancestors had to live in the most squalid of conditions just to work up from abject poverty to working poor. White veterans from WWII, Korea, were able to get educations and homes on the GI Bill, which the middle class in our nation was largely built upon. Black veterans came home to little, if any support. And that has been mirrored in our education system and the quality of communities. Access and opportunity makes a big difference, as we see now that it is not just affecting poor black communities.
The history is there if you are willing to see it.
The people descended from European immigrants who came here before the early 20th century have had generations to assimilate and intermarry. Many of those ancestors had to live in the most squalid of conditions just to work up from abject poverty to working poor. White veterans from WWII, Korea, were able to get educations and homes on the GI Bill, which the middle class in our nation was largely built upon. Black veterans came home to little, if any support. And that has been mirrored in our education system and the quality of communities. Access and opportunity makes a big difference, as we see now that it is not just affecting poor black communities.
The history is there if you are willing to see it.
15
"The history is there if you're willing to see it."
Exactly! And I know so many white people who REFUSE to see it. (I am considered by visual standards white btw and privy to this information regularly)
Exactly! And I know so many white people who REFUSE to see it. (I am considered by visual standards white btw and privy to this information regularly)
1
Exactly how are you made to feel that you are not fully American? Will your demands ever stop? Look, your insecurity is not my fault. Fix yourself, and stay out of my business.
2
Part of the problem for whites is that they only see the black experience via television news, in which case they see mostly the crime and blight of poor urban black communities.
I grew up in one of those communities, a poor white child of a jazz musician. I've never had any illusions that blacks--even successful, educated and well off blacks--have anything like the experience I have as white man.
But here's the thing: It's never one thing. It's not just ongoing systemic racism. Or getting whites to understand how blacks experience life. Or getting whites to understand the privilege of their skin hue.
My black friends grew up with vastly different expectations than I did. Their teachers and parents were often happy if they just finished school and didn't get arrested. Perhaps after centuries of the most brutal oppression any group of people can face, these are accomplishments. But they're not enough.
If we are to face our obligations as a civil society, we need to do so much more. And we need to start at the beginning of life and sustain our efforts to provide opportunities in school and beyond, to help kids see that there are more options than the miserable few in the blocks where they live.
And equally important, struggling communities need to buy in to this. This is what was so often lacking in the streets where I lived. On the rare occasion when a dedicated teacher showed a path forward, it was not supported by the larger community.
How do we change this?
I grew up in one of those communities, a poor white child of a jazz musician. I've never had any illusions that blacks--even successful, educated and well off blacks--have anything like the experience I have as white man.
But here's the thing: It's never one thing. It's not just ongoing systemic racism. Or getting whites to understand how blacks experience life. Or getting whites to understand the privilege of their skin hue.
My black friends grew up with vastly different expectations than I did. Their teachers and parents were often happy if they just finished school and didn't get arrested. Perhaps after centuries of the most brutal oppression any group of people can face, these are accomplishments. But they're not enough.
If we are to face our obligations as a civil society, we need to do so much more. And we need to start at the beginning of life and sustain our efforts to provide opportunities in school and beyond, to help kids see that there are more options than the miserable few in the blocks where they live.
And equally important, struggling communities need to buy in to this. This is what was so often lacking in the streets where I lived. On the rare occasion when a dedicated teacher showed a path forward, it was not supported by the larger community.
How do we change this?
16
Let's rev up the racial divisions -- to keep people from noticing the class issues. Guess what? White people are also poor -- and the ranks of the poor are increasing. Can you imagine what would happen if poor blacks and poor whites united to fight for economic justice?
18
It is quite easy to imagine, hence the relentlessly divisive race-baiting propaganda...
2
On Monday, 7/11/16, I was walking with my daughter on 5th Avenue,south of the Met. A young black man was handing out CDs as one often sees around NYC. I was offered one, but I said, "no thank you". The response was, "are you afraid of black people?". As I walked away without responding I heard, "Martin Luther King is turning over in his grave."
I didn't respond to that either and kept walking. Who is the racist here? Are whites now required to comply with any request, or agree with any assessment that a black person makes?
The reference to Martin Luther King was especially galling here because of stated wish for a color blind society.
I didn't respond to that either and kept walking. Who is the racist here? Are whites now required to comply with any request, or agree with any assessment that a black person makes?
The reference to Martin Luther King was especially galling here because of stated wish for a color blind society.
18
Hey- here's a phrase I'll bet you've said before: "Get over it."
You're mild experience with a reactionary individual doesn't equate to centuries of institutional racism. So just get over it and focus on the real race problems. That one experience isn't going to hold you back from making a living or getting a good education, so get over it.
You're mild experience with a reactionary individual doesn't equate to centuries of institutional racism. So just get over it and focus on the real race problems. That one experience isn't going to hold you back from making a living or getting a good education, so get over it.
10
Yeah, boy, that's terrible. Every bit as bad as wearing a white hood and torching a cross on your lawn.
Good grief.
Good grief.
1
This guy was simply trying to manipulate you into buying a CD. I don't think he believed what he was saying.
1
I agree that whites don't get it---I'm an older, straight, well educated Caucasian male who lived and worked in Detroit for thirty years---but blacks don't get it either. All I hear is that "whites are racist, whites must change their attitudes" and everything will be OK. I think that is a very naive and simplistic "solution".
Blacks must make significant changes in their attitudes too so that young black men like Micheal Brown and Alton Sterling don't end up getting into very risky and extremely dangerous confrontations with police. If we are all one and all in this together everybody---cops, citizens, blacks, whites have to take responsibility for something and work on that.
I'm willing to support changes for the police like national standards for use of force and increased funds for police training if blacks are willing to admit that there are issues they need to work on too---like promoting education as something positive rather than seeing education as "being too white".
We are all human and all have our particular devils to deal with.
Blacks must make significant changes in their attitudes too so that young black men like Micheal Brown and Alton Sterling don't end up getting into very risky and extremely dangerous confrontations with police. If we are all one and all in this together everybody---cops, citizens, blacks, whites have to take responsibility for something and work on that.
I'm willing to support changes for the police like national standards for use of force and increased funds for police training if blacks are willing to admit that there are issues they need to work on too---like promoting education as something positive rather than seeing education as "being too white".
We are all human and all have our particular devils to deal with.
10
Our nation has issues of income and race that have obscured a simple and destructive corrosive to our social fabric that is terrorism aided and abetted by the NRA and the gun psychosis.
The shootings that precipitated this latest wave of soul searching all came about on the heels of legal carry scenarios.
45 states now have legal carry. We also have an ever growing amount of illegal street guns. We have a background of constant shootings that occur because there is a gun present- whether it's the Florida mom being shot by her son or the 'crazy pro-2nd Amendment mom in Texas' shooting her two daughters at family meeting. We have about 20,000,000 Americans in doubled-down vehement denial. And we have pure self-justifying racism that can always find plenty of self-justification in cultural memes and right wing tropes.
Were the congregation members that Dylann Roof shot dead black panthers? Radical hip-hop rappers shouting out to kill all cops? No more than BLM marchers were to blame for an unhinged army veteran in Dallas looking to use his sniper rifle were to blame for presenting the ideal opportunity for his revenge.
What is the common denominator of this American ailment? It is guns. Chrissie Sheats wasn't black and neither were the majority of the 42,000 + deaths by gun last year. Economic disparities relative to billionaires and the vast majority of Americans - white or black?
The guns were the common denominator. The rest are excuses.
The shootings that precipitated this latest wave of soul searching all came about on the heels of legal carry scenarios.
45 states now have legal carry. We also have an ever growing amount of illegal street guns. We have a background of constant shootings that occur because there is a gun present- whether it's the Florida mom being shot by her son or the 'crazy pro-2nd Amendment mom in Texas' shooting her two daughters at family meeting. We have about 20,000,000 Americans in doubled-down vehement denial. And we have pure self-justifying racism that can always find plenty of self-justification in cultural memes and right wing tropes.
Were the congregation members that Dylann Roof shot dead black panthers? Radical hip-hop rappers shouting out to kill all cops? No more than BLM marchers were to blame for an unhinged army veteran in Dallas looking to use his sniper rifle were to blame for presenting the ideal opportunity for his revenge.
What is the common denominator of this American ailment? It is guns. Chrissie Sheats wasn't black and neither were the majority of the 42,000 + deaths by gun last year. Economic disparities relative to billionaires and the vast majority of Americans - white or black?
The guns were the common denominator. The rest are excuses.
2
And how does gun proliferation prevent education inequality?
3
I have never even been arrested for anything, but you want to take my guns? Well, good luck with that idea.
3
So, every thought emanating from the heads of Whites regarding Blacks is wrong to the detriment of Blacks, but every thought emanating from the heads of Blacks regarding Blacks is wrong to their own detriment? To say this makes no sense is not really worth the effort.
Here's an idea. Quit Balkanizing the country. It is not Blacks that fail or Whites that succeed. It is individuals that succeed or fail. And as the success of the Black doctor and of Darren Walker attest, success is possible for both Blacks and Whites.
Is there still racism? Sure, on both sides of the racial divide. Which won't ever have a chance at being eliminated if Blacks continue to be coddled into believing it is their race that keeps them down so it must be their race that will lift them up. The majority culture--the one in which success or failure is determined--is not Black. If Blacks want to succeed in it, they need to by and large leave their racial identity behind.
A rhetorical question: If racism against Blacks was and is so nefarious and pervasive, even in the sixties, how could it have happened that our very own President's black-as-coal dad came to this country from Kenya, married a White woman, and got a Ph.D. In Kansas? In 1962?
Here's an idea. Quit Balkanizing the country. It is not Blacks that fail or Whites that succeed. It is individuals that succeed or fail. And as the success of the Black doctor and of Darren Walker attest, success is possible for both Blacks and Whites.
Is there still racism? Sure, on both sides of the racial divide. Which won't ever have a chance at being eliminated if Blacks continue to be coddled into believing it is their race that keeps them down so it must be their race that will lift them up. The majority culture--the one in which success or failure is determined--is not Black. If Blacks want to succeed in it, they need to by and large leave their racial identity behind.
A rhetorical question: If racism against Blacks was and is so nefarious and pervasive, even in the sixties, how could it have happened that our very own President's black-as-coal dad came to this country from Kenya, married a White woman, and got a Ph.D. In Kansas? In 1962?
13
Is Hawaii Kansas now? Is Kansas Alabama?
1
Start by providing equal educational opportunities too ALL Americans: otherwise the field is tilted from the start
My bad, I meant Hawaii. Obama's mother is from Kansas. But thanks for the snappy reply.
1
The police go for easy targets. In my experience - in a Navy community - sailors were easy to spot by their haircuts, cruise jackets, or when in their cars, by out of state license plates. Look at what happened to the Norfolk Four. Police officers knew sailors did not earn much, had no family in town, etc. That's why the Navy used to [still might] send an officer to court with sailors pulled for drunken driving, disorderly conduct, etc. To show that someone cared what happened to these sailors. My father went to Judge Hitching's Norfolk traffic court with sailors many times. Too bad these black kids have no one comparable.
1
In sum: white people bad, all problems blacks face as a community are extrinsic to them.
got it, Nic.
got it, Nic.
10
My problem with these percentages is that they do not account for regional differences of political opinion. Said another way, the political opinions of the white population in the Old South greatly impact the percentages of the whole U.S. white population. Since 9 out 10 whites of the Old South vote solidly Republican, their nearly solid block of backward political opinions will skew the results of the whole white population. Viewed this way, you can be quite sure that the opinions of the white population in, let's say for example, Oregon are a good deal more reasonable than the numbers in Kristof's article might suggest. Don't paint me with a broad political brush that includes the whites of the Old South.
1
I used to work in the financial services industry, where I routinely attended industry conferences. In a sea of literally hundreds of people, there were typically 10 or 20 people of color. I once mentioned to a co-worker that I thought we worked in a very racist industry. She looked at me blankly. I pointed to the sea of white people at the industry cocktail party we were attending. "But people pick what they want to do with their lives." Could she have really believed that the only reason it was a sea of white people was because brown and black people aren't interested in financial services? That they didn't apply? Really?
3
Maybe they just didnt "apply" themselves in school. We are all legally required to attend school until we reach majority age. What you do with that opportunity is up to you...
2
yes kristof, you are most certainly delusional, and have a long history of being so. amazingly, immigrant groups come to the US and prosper, right now, facing discrimination (as all immigrant groups have throughout our history). instead of becoming a cause celebre for ineffectual liberal lecturers like yourself, they recognize the folly of your "support", and simply work harder to do better. they know they are disliked, but they don't care. MLK didn't argue for a world in which he had a right to be liked and treasured. He argued for a world in which he could eat where other humans ate, use the bathrooms they use, sit in a bus seat that others sit in. Fools like you, and no, that's not too harsh, pander in the current climate of "micro-aggressions" and other silly nonsense, to the detriment of black america. Work harder, be better, succeed irrespective of the hatred/racism pointed at you in thought. That, is the only solution.
11
Your last sentence is literally correct:
"Work harder, be better, succeed irrespective of the hatred/racism pointed at you in thought. That, is the only solution."
It is inevitable that minorities will have to work harder and be "better" than the majority in order to clean up the mess that the majority has made. Life is unfair and imposes unjust burdens. But the process would go much better if the (current) majority would "get it": the constant stream of humiliation and degradation faced in daily life by minorities, and the fear, shame, and,finally, anger that this produces. As Newt Gingrich, a man whom I usually neither admire nor respect, said, "If you are a normal white American, the truth is you don’t understand being black in America and you instinctively under-estimate the level of discrimination and the level of additional risk.”
I am on old white guy, a physician who has been very fortunate and "successful" by most people's standards, and not disposed to crime and violence. But as a farmboy who grew up with both physicality and firearms, I am not at all sure that I could have tolerated the abuse that my minority colleagues (even "wealthy surgeons!"), have faced throughout their lives. And if you were treated like dirt at every turn, I wonder whether you would do any better.
"Work harder, be better, succeed irrespective of the hatred/racism pointed at you in thought. That, is the only solution."
It is inevitable that minorities will have to work harder and be "better" than the majority in order to clean up the mess that the majority has made. Life is unfair and imposes unjust burdens. But the process would go much better if the (current) majority would "get it": the constant stream of humiliation and degradation faced in daily life by minorities, and the fear, shame, and,finally, anger that this produces. As Newt Gingrich, a man whom I usually neither admire nor respect, said, "If you are a normal white American, the truth is you don’t understand being black in America and you instinctively under-estimate the level of discrimination and the level of additional risk.”
I am on old white guy, a physician who has been very fortunate and "successful" by most people's standards, and not disposed to crime and violence. But as a farmboy who grew up with both physicality and firearms, I am not at all sure that I could have tolerated the abuse that my minority colleagues (even "wealthy surgeons!"), have faced throughout their lives. And if you were treated like dirt at every turn, I wonder whether you would do any better.
6
You obviously didn't read the doctors direct experiences with the police. That after all was the crux of the article. Now who is the fool and the less understanding and compassionate person here. Do your self a favor and follow a black man for say a week-month at a distance and then reconsider your senseless criticism.
4
I believe that Mr Kristoff is basing his discussion on a well researched set of demographics. You may wish to do the same. Do ad hominem attacks really add to an informed and lively discussion?
Do you think that someone working hard in an educationally disadvantaged environment has the same chance of success as the child of a CEO going to a private school?
Do you think that someone working hard in an educationally disadvantaged environment has the same chance of success as the child of a CEO going to a private school?
The question of why American born Blacks are not as economically successful as many other segments of society can not be solved by declaring it a result of racism and then demanding that all whites perform a daily guilt ritual.
American Blacks have not yet fully grasped that America of today is not the same as it was 50 years ago. The memes of the mothers and grandmothers are tales of the past.
A Black software engineer with a half decent technical education would have tremendous opportunity. There are no candidates even when HR is tasked specifically with finding them.
American Blacks need to get in the game. Abstaining for fear it is rigged is a losing strategy.
American Blacks have not yet fully grasped that America of today is not the same as it was 50 years ago. The memes of the mothers and grandmothers are tales of the past.
A Black software engineer with a half decent technical education would have tremendous opportunity. There are no candidates even when HR is tasked specifically with finding them.
American Blacks need to get in the game. Abstaining for fear it is rigged is a losing strategy.
8
I teach at one of the largest minority serving urban campuses. Our computer department currently holds close to 2,000 students: the majority are black and Hispanic. Do not tell me there are no software engineers of color
He means SW Engineers that graduated with their EE. Not CC students currently enrolled.
1
Maybe we could start by asking the little children for advice. Somewhere between the playground and the battle ground something is lost.
5
I'm white and go to church in a "black neighborhood" in the deep south where the congregation is mixed. In my own family are 3 former police officers. All white. All good people but each with some degree of racial prejudice. And I think at least some of that prejudice was learned in a job where there can often be 50 people in the area of a shooting death and "nobody saw what happened." My family member was there to help the community where those people live, but they didn't trust him. I wonder if that's part of our problem -- we segment ourselves into neighborhoods of color or creed -- segregate ourselves from others. Yes, black lives matter. But black crimes also matter -- to black folks AND to others. There was a kerfluffle in our area recently where a rap artist tweeted he was going to have a big beach party on a certain date. It never came to be, but that day there were a lot more people of color on the beach. And not self-segregated in the one little area where they usually went, but strolling along the shore as part of the melange of northern tourists . In subsequent weeks, I have noticed more and more black folks taking their places amidst the chalky white bodies of the northerners. And little black tykes and sunburned white ones playing together in a gentle surf That's the way it should be.
3
Yet, as a group, blacks are more antigay than their white counterparts.
Could it be blacks embracing the white man's religion, which apparently is
"divide and conquer"?
Could it be blacks embracing the white man's religion, which apparently is
"divide and conquer"?
3
Can you really call a faith that started in the Levant a "white man's religion?"
1
Why do we always get the "we need to" or "we should" from our leaders and media, and it ends there. What is the NY Times doing to improve race relations? Just writing about it doesn't count--millions of people already do that on facebook.
I have a comment in response to Edsall's column today about why white males support Donald Trump. I say, pathetic. They are afraid of having a woman president. Is this because they remember that their mothers held them responsible for their actions and know they they won't be able to get away with their tricks and games?
Maybe they look at Hillary Clinton and see a lying, corrupt, hollow, scheming politician of the worst kind? Nah, couldn't be. Liberals "know" this can't be true, so anyone who doesn't see it their way "must" be stupid, racist, or both.
http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism
http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism
2
Kristof is delusional. It is not that conservatives are saying that racism is not a problem, it is that they have noticed that racism is not the ONLY problem.
Americans are dying because they cannot afford cancer screening, and that means ALL Americnas not just black Americans. Americans are seeing their living standards deteriorate, and that means ALL Americans except for the very wealthy.
And slogans like "Black lives matter" simply make things worse, by oversimplifying the discussion that we should be having on how to solve America's problems.
One of those problems is too much population growth. The US population grew by 36% during 1980-2010, yet America's natural resources did not grow by the same amount. In particular, the number of positions in America's medical schools grew by only 18% approximately in the same time interval. And higher education itself has become more expensive as states have diverted more funding away from education and to health care services to pay for an exponentially growing population.
California's population has quadrupled since 1950. And now guess what? California is running out of water.
Global warming is itself a symptom of too much population growth.
Yet, amazingly, liberal pundits like Kristof NEVER DISCUSS the impact of population growth on quality of life. Instead they characterize those who suggest that illegal immigration must end as racists.
It is liberals who have bowdlerized the conversation we should be having.
Americans are dying because they cannot afford cancer screening, and that means ALL Americnas not just black Americans. Americans are seeing their living standards deteriorate, and that means ALL Americans except for the very wealthy.
And slogans like "Black lives matter" simply make things worse, by oversimplifying the discussion that we should be having on how to solve America's problems.
One of those problems is too much population growth. The US population grew by 36% during 1980-2010, yet America's natural resources did not grow by the same amount. In particular, the number of positions in America's medical schools grew by only 18% approximately in the same time interval. And higher education itself has become more expensive as states have diverted more funding away from education and to health care services to pay for an exponentially growing population.
California's population has quadrupled since 1950. And now guess what? California is running out of water.
Global warming is itself a symptom of too much population growth.
Yet, amazingly, liberal pundits like Kristof NEVER DISCUSS the impact of population growth on quality of life. Instead they characterize those who suggest that illegal immigration must end as racists.
It is liberals who have bowdlerized the conversation we should be having.
2
"A starting point is for us whites to wake from our ongoing mass delusions". That is a racist statement but from someone who writes columns titled "What white people don't get " it is not surprising. E pluribus unum means out of many one. We are all Americans, and the sooner we stop generalizing, stereotyping and dividing by race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. the sooner we will begin to end the divisions in this country.
5
As a white male, it stinks going through life knowing that everything I achieve is the result of luck, and not hard work or intelligence. If I get a job, it's cause I'm white. If I get promoted it's because I'm white and male. If I go to a bar and have a good time with friends, it's because I'm white and male and take my life for granted.
7
I agree that a large part of the problem is education. We need to change the national political system so that our representatives are not fixated on gutting the services we deserve. Get out there and vote!
1
It is even worse than stated here. When most people think of racism, they think of name calling and exclusionary social practices. That's the tip of a very big iceberg. Here are some systematic aspects of racially oriented impositions:
1. Building freeways and other public works projects through thriving black areas, forcing black people to shop elsewhere (see: N. Central Expressway, Dallas + many others)
2. Putting toxic waste dumps or just ordinary garbage dumps in or near where blacks live.
3. Systematic ways of undermining black owned businesses, including the "race riot" in Tulsa, Ok, in 1921 that killed more than 300 people (with police assistance) and wiped out a developing black owned business zone. Billions of dollars of wealth that would have gone to blacks were taken away.
4. Legacy admissions of children of alumni at elite colleges, locking out others, including blacks.
5. Long term exclusion from elite colleges regardless of intelligence or ability.
6. High interest payments on loans based on a credit worthiness system that is, itself, discriminatory toward blacks.
7. Higher costs for food in under supplied stores in black areas. Stores that push cheap, sugary food substitutes to make more money. No stores in some areas.
8. Intentional lack of public transportation to shopping malls and other "white areas".
9. Under funded schools.
10. Unstated, hidden but rank discrimination in hiring. The first job can be the most important step up in life.
1. Building freeways and other public works projects through thriving black areas, forcing black people to shop elsewhere (see: N. Central Expressway, Dallas + many others)
2. Putting toxic waste dumps or just ordinary garbage dumps in or near where blacks live.
3. Systematic ways of undermining black owned businesses, including the "race riot" in Tulsa, Ok, in 1921 that killed more than 300 people (with police assistance) and wiped out a developing black owned business zone. Billions of dollars of wealth that would have gone to blacks were taken away.
4. Legacy admissions of children of alumni at elite colleges, locking out others, including blacks.
5. Long term exclusion from elite colleges regardless of intelligence or ability.
6. High interest payments on loans based on a credit worthiness system that is, itself, discriminatory toward blacks.
7. Higher costs for food in under supplied stores in black areas. Stores that push cheap, sugary food substitutes to make more money. No stores in some areas.
8. Intentional lack of public transportation to shopping malls and other "white areas".
9. Under funded schools.
10. Unstated, hidden but rank discrimination in hiring. The first job can be the most important step up in life.
6
When the Irish came to the USA they were treated like dirt. Then, the Polish, Italians, Catholics and Jews got the same greeting. They embraced the culture and it stopped.
In the last 50 years the Black population has continued to reject our culture because it is White. As soon as the Black population wants to be included in the culture, things will change for them.
In the last 50 years the Black population has continued to reject our culture because it is White. As soon as the Black population wants to be included in the culture, things will change for them.
3
The hope is with our kids. Look around, we are becoming more and more racially diverse even in many formerly white middle class communities and the schools reflect this. They are in class together and they play sports together. They grow up as friends. And they grew up with a Black President. What we are faced with now is a reaction of strongly ingrained attitudes of older generations to the inevitability of history.
1
During the Civil Rights Movement, we were fighting the institutionalized racism that was easily identifiable due to the Jim Crow Laws of the South and the blatant efforts of racists to keep people of color away from the equality they so richly deserved in our nation. Today, we are faced with another Civil Rights Movement: Defeating the deep seated bigotry and racism that has silently formed our thinking and actions. Changing hearts and minds is no easy task. We must be willing to look at ourselves closely and challenge our own views on race and how we respond to others unlike ourselves. This is a monumental task to say the least. Being willing to admit that we may have racist or bigoted attitudes is difficult for all of us. I don't agree with everything the Black Lives Matter movement says, but they are delivering an extremely important message: Justice is not for all right now. The movement is not just about Blacks being killed by police, but instead it's a clarion call to all of us to look at how unfair and biased our criminal justice system is today. As trite as it may sound, we truly need to come together as a people and LISTEN to one another about our feelings, fears, disappointments, and anger about race. Most importantly, we must be willing to change our own attitudes.
2
Kristof carefully ignores the real problem: attack style.
Over 80% of applicants who present themselves by dress, language, manners, education, and overall style as wanting very much to be part of the society they want to join will succeed.
On the other hand most applicants who swagger in with an 'in your face' 'chip on the shoulder' style will surely fail. Admitting officers do not want to let someone in who is pushing for a fight.
Why fight? The Irish, the Jews, the Hispanics, the Southeast Asians, all other minorities do not adopt attack style. The opposite. They do their best to fit in to the place they want to join. And they succeed. Of course.
If the blacks adopt an attack style, constantly challenging the barriers of acceptance -- is it any wonder they succeed less?
Over 80% of applicants who present themselves by dress, language, manners, education, and overall style as wanting very much to be part of the society they want to join will succeed.
On the other hand most applicants who swagger in with an 'in your face' 'chip on the shoulder' style will surely fail. Admitting officers do not want to let someone in who is pushing for a fight.
Why fight? The Irish, the Jews, the Hispanics, the Southeast Asians, all other minorities do not adopt attack style. The opposite. They do their best to fit in to the place they want to join. And they succeed. Of course.
If the blacks adopt an attack style, constantly challenging the barriers of acceptance -- is it any wonder they succeed less?
11
We must help black families by investing in communities and reinstating the welfare rights so foolishly dismantled in the 90s. But we can't do this at the expense of poor white families. The rich must be taxed to pay for a civilized society.
Excellent piece Mr Kristof I wish every white person in America would read it.
A recent study showed the number of white Americans with $0 in savings at record levels.
White-American suicide rate - rising from multi-year highs.
Drug use - skyrocketing.
Cost of basic needs - skyrocketing for all.
It's the epitome of liberalism to discuss racial inequality and paint one group as being racist - when vast majority are not - when so many in that group are hurting as much as Black Americans.
It's totally insensitive and counter-productive.
It's time for many of you to refine your message and be inclusive to all Americans because to me it sounds like "coastal elites" are acting just like that.
Sure-fire way to have a madman become POTUS.
White-American suicide rate - rising from multi-year highs.
Drug use - skyrocketing.
Cost of basic needs - skyrocketing for all.
It's the epitome of liberalism to discuss racial inequality and paint one group as being racist - when vast majority are not - when so many in that group are hurting as much as Black Americans.
It's totally insensitive and counter-productive.
It's time for many of you to refine your message and be inclusive to all Americans because to me it sounds like "coastal elites" are acting just like that.
Sure-fire way to have a madman become POTUS.
6
I am a white woman, age 64. I have had very little contact with police. But the couple times I was pulled over, I immediately felt a sense of panic. I knew I was in some kind of trouble or I wouldn't have been stopped. So if blacks feel scared when they are pulled over, they need to know that it's probably a universal reaction. Cops have an intimidating demeanor. I guess it's part of the job.
7
To Matt in NJ: New Jersey also has failing roads and other problematic infrastructure. Yet we don't uses New Jersey's failures there to give up on all roads or all infrastructure.
The examples you cite of education attempts in Newark, are often bandied about, by those actually expert in the field, as an example of disastrous policy management. I believe things are getting better, but regardless, taking one failed example and extrapolating it as "truth," seems quite a bit more than far fetched.
Why don't you instead consider Mr. Kristof's arguments in holistic fashion? You may disagree with parts, but the general thrust, for those interested in evidence, which you seem to be, is hard to dispute.
The examples you cite of education attempts in Newark, are often bandied about, by those actually expert in the field, as an example of disastrous policy management. I believe things are getting better, but regardless, taking one failed example and extrapolating it as "truth," seems quite a bit more than far fetched.
Why don't you instead consider Mr. Kristof's arguments in holistic fashion? You may disagree with parts, but the general thrust, for those interested in evidence, which you seem to be, is hard to dispute.
2
This country is starting to scare me. The battle lines have been drawn, and show no signs of coming down soon.
For all the speeches and talk of having and living in a "post-racial" society, I see just the opposite.
And it wasn't Donald Trump and his racist rants that brought this out in America.
It has always been there.
In fact, this country was built on it. But people like to forget that too.
Maybe it's delusion.
But it 's probably more like denial.
For all the speeches and talk of having and living in a "post-racial" society, I see just the opposite.
And it wasn't Donald Trump and his racist rants that brought this out in America.
It has always been there.
In fact, this country was built on it. But people like to forget that too.
Maybe it's delusion.
But it 's probably more like denial.
2
Numerous commenters here deride black parents for supposedly not caring for their children and blame them for continued inequities. How can these callous observers ignore the parade of weeping black moms (and children, siblings, fathers, grandparents) who've lost children to police violence? The mourners are forced into the public eye and many of them, like Erica Garner, are becoming activists for justice.
Good article. Thanks Nick.
Don't confuse race with social class (a common failure in America where people are just beginning to acknowledge that class really exists). Black children DO have the same educational opportunities IF they live in the same neighborhoods. Which child has better educational opportunities: a white child in the back hollow in the rural South or a black child in West Hartford, CT? Refusing to discuss class along with race means the discussion will always be incomplete and pointless.
10
Exactly...
2
It is not delusion to think blacks are treated fairly by the police. Actual statistics, none of which the BLM supporters ever cite, make it clear that police shootings of blacks are not disproportionate to the crimes blacks commit. As the recent Harvard study shows, there may be some small degree of unfairness in more minor aspects of policing, though given the high crime areas in which this occurs, it may or may not be attributable to prejudice. In any case, this is NOT the issue facing the black community.
If whites are deluded about the other, more profound problems of poor blacks what are we to make of the BLACK political class for its embrace of the trivial police issues and total ignoring of black jobs, poor education, broken families, etc. Kristoff, like Obama, and like the Black liberal leadership, all cite "disparate impact" to make utterly bogus claims about discrimination. Hence, here we are told blacks are more likely to be suspended from preschool, for instance. Ludicrous. Does Kristoff make ANY effort to find out why those rate differences exist, how the black kids actually behave compared with whites, whether the teachers doing the suspending are black or white, or what their feelings actually are about race? No, he operates on a level of understanding so obtuse as to require us to include HIM in the group of "oblivious" whites he seeks to place himself above.
If whites are deluded about the other, more profound problems of poor blacks what are we to make of the BLACK political class for its embrace of the trivial police issues and total ignoring of black jobs, poor education, broken families, etc. Kristoff, like Obama, and like the Black liberal leadership, all cite "disparate impact" to make utterly bogus claims about discrimination. Hence, here we are told blacks are more likely to be suspended from preschool, for instance. Ludicrous. Does Kristoff make ANY effort to find out why those rate differences exist, how the black kids actually behave compared with whites, whether the teachers doing the suspending are black or white, or what their feelings actually are about race? No, he operates on a level of understanding so obtuse as to require us to include HIM in the group of "oblivious" whites he seeks to place himself above.
8
Before LBJ's creation of the welfare state in 1965, over 80% of African-Americans were raised in homes with 2 MARRIED parents and 40% of them were entrepreneurs. Maybe, just maybe, this has a little to do with the plight of the current generation of blacks.....
5
Sources?
2
Perhaps this blindness comes down to how a person prefers to deal with their own problems. We all have our own issues to deal with and outside of the world of social workers, most of us aren't willing to take on someone else's problems unless there is some personal connection. White people struggle to make life better but few, if any, would willingly take on being black. When our black brothers and sisters (Hispanic, LGBTQ, ...) speak up about the way society treats them on a daily basis, that they genuinely fear for their lives or the safety of their children, we can choose to confront our own demons in this relationship, or we can ignore it and/or blame the messenger. Which is easier?
Take this test. Next time you feel discriminated against because you're white, ask yourself if you would trade places with the person that got that job or promotion you feel cheated out of.
Take this test. Next time you feel discriminated against because you're white, ask yourself if you would trade places with the person that got that job or promotion you feel cheated out of.
1
As a white public health nurse, I spent most of my career visiting the homes of poor families and becoming friends with several black families who are now like family. I cried reading this column because I have seen its truth over and over. Yet many of my white family members just won't believe me when I try to talk about the ongoing racism and injustice and how much more needs to be changed.
2
I agree completely but you still may be understanding the problem.
I wonder if a "national conversation" will be enough to change the hearts and minds of those suffering from delusions about race and the police, especially with Donald Trump fueling their delusions.
1
For Democrats a "national conversation" is a sort of liberal re-education camp where we'd better agree with you, or else.
Nothing defined racism for me more than when my friend decided that she would adopt children. Rather than go through the system, which was long and arduous, she went to a lawyer who handled adoptions of babies for a fee. The fees were what the market would bear, based on color: white was the most expensive, mixed white with Chinese was next, mixed white with Hispanic was next and so on until the cheapest baby was black and not mixed race.
1
When 70% of black babies are born out of wedlock, I'd imagine that the supply isn't exactly lacking.
4
I was surprised to hear those statistics - and I find them hard to believe. If people are providing those responses to interviewed questions, I don't believe their answers are honest.
We all harbor some forms of bias - those who say they are free from any type of racial, cultural, religious or economic prejudice, are not being true to themselves.
I am proud to be an American, but not proud of our America's past. We practically committed genocide, killing the majority of Native Americans to expand the United States in the name of Manifest Destiny.
We then enslaved millions of Africans in order to grow our textile economy in the South - which could not have happened without slave labor.
We 'freed' the slaves after the Civil War, but in reality, African Americans have never gained the status in the country they deserve due to continued bias throughout their lives. They encounter prejudice in their neighborhoods, schools and in the employment sector - still, to this day.
Fighting racism is a constant challenge as there will always be those individuals that prey among the fears of the majority, and look to suppress minorities rights.
We all harbor some forms of bias - those who say they are free from any type of racial, cultural, religious or economic prejudice, are not being true to themselves.
I am proud to be an American, but not proud of our America's past. We practically committed genocide, killing the majority of Native Americans to expand the United States in the name of Manifest Destiny.
We then enslaved millions of Africans in order to grow our textile economy in the South - which could not have happened without slave labor.
We 'freed' the slaves after the Civil War, but in reality, African Americans have never gained the status in the country they deserve due to continued bias throughout their lives. They encounter prejudice in their neighborhoods, schools and in the employment sector - still, to this day.
Fighting racism is a constant challenge as there will always be those individuals that prey among the fears of the majority, and look to suppress minorities rights.
Dr. Brian Williams' experience is every black man's experience. Rich or poor, educated or uneducated, the black man will be stopped. He will be challenged and he will be humiliated. Dr. Williams, a trauma surgeon, confessed his own trauma with law enforcement while expressing his deep regret at not being able to keep those wounded alive. That is the American reality for the black man.
1
"White Delusion" is a good start, Nicholas. You succinctly explained 'square one.' But if you really want to see the big picture then please jump to 'square two' then three, then four etc. then consider all the ways our species deceives and deludes itself with thinking that explodes the rules of logic. Confirmation bias is one of my favorites topped only by cognitive dissonance, the bizarre act of holding onto polar opposite beliefs (and smiling wanly). Cherry picking and groupthink are on the list. Argument ad hominem is in vogue this year. False cause and appeal to ignorance are certainly right up there. The list of common logical fallacies is long. It's available on the internet. It all adds up to unmistakeable conclusion that a sizable portion of our very strange species will go through life having no clue how they deceive themselves. Tune in next week in Cleveland for a live demonstration.
What the article neglects is that "White" folks are people of color too! What needs to be focused on is not race, but inequity. Whites that don't own property, have college degrees, and steady jobs are tired of hearing about "White Privilege." A place at the Social Justice table needs to be set for White People of Color. You can have a dialogue from the outside looking in when you are living it.
1
He has tackled those very issues, repeatedly- in his columns. Seems you weren't paying attention. That being said- all other things being equal, it's much easier to be a poor white person in this country than a poor black person.
1
I value the police and understand the risks they take every day. However, it is a choice they make for the job they take. I have had experiences with police that gave me reason to fear them though I had done nothing wrong except to express my unhappiness at their actions. That, it seems is not acceptable to many police officers.
One example: My car lost a fan belt coming back from upstate with my kids wife and dog. I pulled into the parking area of the Hawthorne Police station. I called Mercedes Roadside assistance and a technician showed up within 15 minutes. He said he could install a new belt in five minutes. An officer came over to see what we were doing, told the mechanic he had to leave because only people with permits could service cars here.
I asked her to cut me some slack, as we needed to get on our way. Her response startled me. It was anger and threat--"I am not talking to you. I am talking to him. Unless you want to be in the station in a chair, you better shut up and walk away."
Had I said anything further, I would have been handcuffed and taken into the station, leaving my family sitting there. The mechanic suggested I drive slowly to the streets nearby where he could legally make the repair. We did so and went on our way.
The experience among others have instilled a level of fear when dealing with police even when I have nothing to fear. Keep my head down, my hands visible and say "yes sir no sir."
One example: My car lost a fan belt coming back from upstate with my kids wife and dog. I pulled into the parking area of the Hawthorne Police station. I called Mercedes Roadside assistance and a technician showed up within 15 minutes. He said he could install a new belt in five minutes. An officer came over to see what we were doing, told the mechanic he had to leave because only people with permits could service cars here.
I asked her to cut me some slack, as we needed to get on our way. Her response startled me. It was anger and threat--"I am not talking to you. I am talking to him. Unless you want to be in the station in a chair, you better shut up and walk away."
Had I said anything further, I would have been handcuffed and taken into the station, leaving my family sitting there. The mechanic suggested I drive slowly to the streets nearby where he could legally make the repair. We did so and went on our way.
The experience among others have instilled a level of fear when dealing with police even when I have nothing to fear. Keep my head down, my hands visible and say "yes sir no sir."
Well, I am Caucasian and I think I get it. I do not think that lectures are going to help very much. We need changes in "practice". For policing, I think that this would largely be how to provide police with rapid access to information that will overwhelm racial bias. While many of these might themselves have tinges of racial bias, if they decrease injustice, seems to me that they are valuable.
There ought to be a simple way for any person to give VERBAL information to a policeman that would allow unambiguous identification. Maybe "my driver's license number is ... after which the policeman can (hands free) see a picture from the state, or his dispatcher can compare the picture from a camera the policeman has with a picture on file with the state. Or: my cell phone number is ... Have your dispatcher check it out and then call that number: you will hear the phone in my pocket ring: it is me. And, I am known to the state as a lot more than my color, clothes or presently state of emotional upset.
Successful persons - particularly persons of color who own expensive homes or cars should have the option of having a clear and unambiguous way of making it clear that they belong. A photo stuck to an inside window? Facing in? Possibly covered but easy to reveal?
Etc.
Seems to me a lot easier to decrease the effect of profiling than to make profiling go away. Evolution programmed us to profile.
There ought to be a simple way for any person to give VERBAL information to a policeman that would allow unambiguous identification. Maybe "my driver's license number is ... after which the policeman can (hands free) see a picture from the state, or his dispatcher can compare the picture from a camera the policeman has with a picture on file with the state. Or: my cell phone number is ... Have your dispatcher check it out and then call that number: you will hear the phone in my pocket ring: it is me. And, I am known to the state as a lot more than my color, clothes or presently state of emotional upset.
Successful persons - particularly persons of color who own expensive homes or cars should have the option of having a clear and unambiguous way of making it clear that they belong. A photo stuck to an inside window? Facing in? Possibly covered but easy to reveal?
Etc.
Seems to me a lot easier to decrease the effect of profiling than to make profiling go away. Evolution programmed us to profile.
2
Sober assessment of the ongoing discrimination (so called "racism", a misnomer for the human race) against a whole ethnic group whose skin color happens to be darker than ours. With all the information out there, readily available for the asking, anybody claiming ignorance of the facts (inequities towards Blacks), does so willfully; and that is the rub; and the shame; and the injustice. We have a long way to go; and educating ourselves about it is a good start. Reality, and truth, and beauty, have always been there; shouldn't we claim it, and act accordingly?
1
"A starting point is for us whites to wake from our ongoing mass delusions". That is a racist statement but from someone who writes columns titled "What white people don't get " it is not surprising. E pluribus unum means out of many one. We are all Americans, and the sooner we stop generalizing, stereotyping and dividing by race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. the sooner we will begin to end the divisions in this country.
1
As an "old white guy" I still hear my friends tell me black should be happy they're treated as well as they are. "If those people would only respect authority and obey...." Ugh.
2
Racism is learned. Stop teaching it. It can die, and should, and likely will if we let it.
Let's end or at least seriously reevaluate affirmative action. Let's work on poverty and education.
Less classification means less segregation means more peace and productivity and happiness and so on. So lets just be people with a common identity.
Too Pollyanna? I guess, but this is how we play as kids. Zero racism, zero preference, zero sexism, just rules and common good.
.
Let's end or at least seriously reevaluate affirmative action. Let's work on poverty and education.
Less classification means less segregation means more peace and productivity and happiness and so on. So lets just be people with a common identity.
Too Pollyanna? I guess, but this is how we play as kids. Zero racism, zero preference, zero sexism, just rules and common good.
.
1
Absolutely. Unfortunately humans are very good teachers.
President Bush nade an excellent point at the memorial service in Dallas when he said we judge others by their worst examples and ourselves by our best intentions. Isn't that the definition of racism? And doesn't it explain, at least in part, the inability of so many white people to perceive the existence of so mich inequality?
1
Does this mean tha Nicholas has moved from the Jonathan Chait camp to the Ta Nehisi Coates camp?
1
It's not just institutions like schools and hospitals and so forth and police where problems lie. Everywhere I've lived or worked in the US there has been at least a casual underlying racism among whites who, when no blacks are present, snicker at racist jokes or confirm their prejudices by pointing out minor transgression which they've failed to note in whites, though it's occurred right under their noses. The assumptions of racial superiority/inferiority are woven deep in many white psyches.
1
"Hindsight strike[s] us all as repugnant" when we recall the polled attitudes of the 1930s toward race and housing. Hindsight? Not so much. Yes, we may be less barbaric today than we were 75 years ago, but the "there goes the neighborhood" prejudice is no means behind us.
So it is with public schooling (or as Sam Brownback calls it, "government schooling"). How often do we hear from the right the complaint that we pour so much taxpayer money into public education while schools continue to perform poorly?
Actually, the affluent districts that receive the lion's share of resources do rather admirably. The schools that are resource-starved (peeling paint, lead-laced drinking water, pestilent vermin, leaking roofs, large class sizes, over-burdened teachers, etc.) have higher failure rates.
Life opportunity is closely associated with childhood poverty. In America, childhood poverty most severely afflicts black kids. (Yes, it afflicts whites, too, in smaller proportion.) Conservative tactical politicking (I'm talking about *you,* Donald Trump, among others) pits one marginalized group against others. This helps explain the white resentment that feeds the Trump campaign.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
So it is with public schooling (or as Sam Brownback calls it, "government schooling"). How often do we hear from the right the complaint that we pour so much taxpayer money into public education while schools continue to perform poorly?
Actually, the affluent districts that receive the lion's share of resources do rather admirably. The schools that are resource-starved (peeling paint, lead-laced drinking water, pestilent vermin, leaking roofs, large class sizes, over-burdened teachers, etc.) have higher failure rates.
Life opportunity is closely associated with childhood poverty. In America, childhood poverty most severely afflicts black kids. (Yes, it afflicts whites, too, in smaller proportion.) Conservative tactical politicking (I'm talking about *you,* Donald Trump, among others) pits one marginalized group against others. This helps explain the white resentment that feeds the Trump campaign.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
2
Who are "whites" exactly? Germanic, Eastern European, Nordic, English (various), Mediterranean, Middle Eastern, Russian, Australian,... All you ever read in these pieces is "white". Raised in a test tube from a formless goo with no history or diversity.
3
Really bad column, could have been co-authored by Charles Blow. Until progressives point out that in whatever equation is devised to eliminate black poverty and reduce whatever racism (and I'd like to know why Kristof and other progressives columnists take as a given that most Whites are racist) might exist -- there must be significant weighting given to Blacks taking responsibility.
We know now pretty clearly, despite a sparse number of anecdotes, that white cops aren't targeting Blacks. That entire narrative is false because the numbers simply don't support it (check FBI stats and the Guardian and Wash post tracking of police shootings). We also know that most social engineering projects by white progressives have failed. We also know -- if you think about it -- that whether someone succeeds in school is more than just a matter of $$$ in the school.
So let's quit playing the victim card and demand responsibility. If you go through the videos of the sensationalized videos of cops shooting blacks -- what do you see? In virtually all cases the Black individual resists arrest, runs away, attacks the officer, often had a record. Now, this doesn't justify killings. But it does make you wonder why minor events escalated. Is it a White racist cop -- or a community that has no respect for authority?
Everyone wants to fix this problem. But calling all Whites racists and all Blacks victims ain't gonna make it happen.
We know now pretty clearly, despite a sparse number of anecdotes, that white cops aren't targeting Blacks. That entire narrative is false because the numbers simply don't support it (check FBI stats and the Guardian and Wash post tracking of police shootings). We also know that most social engineering projects by white progressives have failed. We also know -- if you think about it -- that whether someone succeeds in school is more than just a matter of $$$ in the school.
So let's quit playing the victim card and demand responsibility. If you go through the videos of the sensationalized videos of cops shooting blacks -- what do you see? In virtually all cases the Black individual resists arrest, runs away, attacks the officer, often had a record. Now, this doesn't justify killings. But it does make you wonder why minor events escalated. Is it a White racist cop -- or a community that has no respect for authority?
Everyone wants to fix this problem. But calling all Whites racists and all Blacks victims ain't gonna make it happen.
2
Nearly every one of our universities racially discriminates against Whites and Asians in admissions while discriminating in favor of Blacks and Hispanics. So yes, given the institutional racism of our universities, the gateways to good jobs, discrimination against whites is as big a problem. We also now have schools teaching white children as young as 6 that they are inherently racist, which is itself a racist practice. It is not surprising that someone like a NYT columnist, whose children will benefit from discrimination in favor of the affluent, celebrity or legacy (the other form of discrimination our universities perpetrate), would declare that there is no problem. It won't effect him or his family, so why should he care.
"In retrospect, we can see that these white beliefs were delusional, and in other survey questions whites blithely acknowledged racist attitudes."
Cast your net further afield, Mr. Kristof. Is it delusional for whites to believe that children of recent arrivals from India and Asia have as good a chance as whites of getting a good education? Do the family members of recent arrivals from India and Asia have as good a chance as whites of getting a job? And how do the white delusions toward Indian-Americans and Asian-Americans square with the delusions of those groups? (Assuming for the sake of argument that there are delusions).
We're all Americans, Mr. Kristof. It is you who are delusional. Embrace the dream.
Cast your net further afield, Mr. Kristof. Is it delusional for whites to believe that children of recent arrivals from India and Asia have as good a chance as whites of getting a good education? Do the family members of recent arrivals from India and Asia have as good a chance as whites of getting a job? And how do the white delusions toward Indian-Americans and Asian-Americans square with the delusions of those groups? (Assuming for the sake of argument that there are delusions).
We're all Americans, Mr. Kristof. It is you who are delusional. Embrace the dream.
As a young long hair back in the late 60's I felt some of the same fear and paranoia some of my black friends have expressed. But only to a degree; I was worried about being thrown in jail for the joint in my pocket not for being shot; I was threatened by red neck kids but the threats were warnings not sudden ambushes.
Saying that I do NOT know the dread my African American brothers and sisters live with on a minute to minute basis. I can't, but I can try.
Stopping racism begins with me.
Let us acknowledge something else; we have made the decision to run this vast Nation on the cheap. We won't tax those with the means at meaningful levels, we won't fund infrastructure stimulus, we can't afford to train our public servants completely, we don't pay them enough.
So we have bridges and highways crumbling. We collect funds through parking tickets, fines and license fees. We have schools that don't turn out productive citizens. We have police officers who should not be police officers. We have others who should be, but won't because of poor pay and working conditions. Same with teachers.
America is quickly becoming a third world country and we wring our hands and say it is not fair that white people are no longer the only ones in charge.
Curiouser and curiouser.
Saying that I do NOT know the dread my African American brothers and sisters live with on a minute to minute basis. I can't, but I can try.
Stopping racism begins with me.
Let us acknowledge something else; we have made the decision to run this vast Nation on the cheap. We won't tax those with the means at meaningful levels, we won't fund infrastructure stimulus, we can't afford to train our public servants completely, we don't pay them enough.
So we have bridges and highways crumbling. We collect funds through parking tickets, fines and license fees. We have schools that don't turn out productive citizens. We have police officers who should not be police officers. We have others who should be, but won't because of poor pay and working conditions. Same with teachers.
America is quickly becoming a third world country and we wring our hands and say it is not fair that white people are no longer the only ones in charge.
Curiouser and curiouser.
2
As a 71 year old white male from a small town in Missouri, I look back on my youth and see the racism that was all around me, but did not "see" it at the time. I was in graduate school before I finally noticed it, and that was in South Dakota. In SD it was the Native American population who were subjected to the kind of pervasive bias the black population of the country had and has now. A Lakota Sioux man living in the apartment above us who made a great living and had a nice car, married to a white woman, told us how when he and his wife went together someplace she would drive to reduce the number of times they were pulled over "just to make sure she wasn't a prisoner."
If you are privileged and white (and I am certainly both) you actually have to look for it or you won't see it. Just because you don't see it does not mean it does not exist. My epiphany came from conversations with black men at conventions I attended who were able to point out blind spots. For instance, if you are black in a nice store shopping, you may get followed to make sure you aren't stealing; how likely is that if you are white? And even now, I know I miss a lot of it. I hate the idea of being biased, but it probably still exists at some level.
Finally, what is making headlines now are the police encounters. This is actually a little different from the pervasive bias as a whole and relates to a culture of fear and training by police to use forceful tactics. We can fix that.
If you are privileged and white (and I am certainly both) you actually have to look for it or you won't see it. Just because you don't see it does not mean it does not exist. My epiphany came from conversations with black men at conventions I attended who were able to point out blind spots. For instance, if you are black in a nice store shopping, you may get followed to make sure you aren't stealing; how likely is that if you are white? And even now, I know I miss a lot of it. I hate the idea of being biased, but it probably still exists at some level.
Finally, what is making headlines now are the police encounters. This is actually a little different from the pervasive bias as a whole and relates to a culture of fear and training by police to use forceful tactics. We can fix that.
1
Years ago, my husband and I were checkers for the Westside Fair Housing Council in Los Angeles. We'd try to rent an apartment after a black couple with a similar background and income to us had been denied the rental, often told it had already been rented. We'd come in and voila, the apartment was available. Racism is still very much alive and flourishing in our country and if I were the mother or grandmother of young boys of color, I'd have to give them "the talk" every day, worry about them every night until they returned home safely.
2
"A starting point is for us whites to wake from our ongoing mass delusions, to recognize that in practice black lives have not mattered as much as white lives, and that this is an affront to values that we all profess to believe in." - Please say this over and over until it finally sinks in.
1
I used to be pulled over regularly by the local sheriff's deputies (Joe Arpaio's boys) when I sported a "Sí Se Puede" bumper sticker (loosely: Yes We Can, in support of Obama.) They'd signal me to pull over as they flashed their lights behind me, then pull along side. As soon as the deputies took a look at me they'd roll their window up and drive away. A white middle-aged woman wasn't what they were expecting. This happened at least once a week until I removed the sticker. Hasn't happened since. Wait until I put on my Stronger Together for Hillary one.
Deciding how you deserve to be treated by your skin shade, your language, your dress, your customs, is something so ingrained in our society. I have no idea how to change it. Awareness that it is a major problem that we all share is a start. But only a start.
Deciding how you deserve to be treated by your skin shade, your language, your dress, your customs, is something so ingrained in our society. I have no idea how to change it. Awareness that it is a major problem that we all share is a start. But only a start.
3
Just as more opportunities must exist for the Black US population in all areas, so too must the black population of the US be ready to take those steps to use these opportunities to better their lives.
Quotas have always existed to deny minorities a fair chance and yet only the black community has received chances based on a racial basis.
While you can provide a rod, reel and bait, you cannot force anyone to fish.
Myriad programs exist for all in the US to thrive. The leaders of all communities must make it their work to have their constituents benefit from what is available.
This can be more effectively accomplished by doing more and complaining less.
Quotas have always existed to deny minorities a fair chance and yet only the black community has received chances based on a racial basis.
While you can provide a rod, reel and bait, you cannot force anyone to fish.
Myriad programs exist for all in the US to thrive. The leaders of all communities must make it their work to have their constituents benefit from what is available.
This can be more effectively accomplished by doing more and complaining less.
2
I agree with the premise of your article that much of white society is oblivious to the existence of racial bias against African-Americans and that they receive inferior education which is a major impediment to a middle class life. I continue to be puzzled by the hypocrisy of progressives who claim to be advocates for the downtrodden, yet refuse to hold principals and teachers in minority neighborhoods to the same standards as those in more affluent areas for fear of alienating one of their core sources of finance - the teachers union.
As a Black man, it is easy for me to say that this article is spot on, and yet it will be dismissed by some folks who are "tired" of being told they are "delusional" or just "don't get it." My hope is that they (and all of us) take the tie to reflect on what Mr. Kristol is saying here, and then find a way to enter into a meaningful on-judgmental conversation with someone who doesn't look like you. Then encourage each other to go find another person to have the same conversation. Until there are overlapping conversations of this type, there is little likelihood that any meaningful action (policy changes) will occur.
86
Entirely absent from this post is any mention of criminality. Blacks commit crimes at proportionally higher rates than other ethnic or racial groups. Any discussion of "racial profiling" is meaningless is the absence of this FACT.
Entirely absent from this post is any mention of the FACT that these "third-rate schools" are controlled by blacks. If black kids go to a school with black teachers, black administrators, a black school board, and is funded (or not) by taxes decided by a black community why is the failure of this school the fault of "white Americans"?
Entirely absent from this post is any mention of the FACT that these "third-rate schools" are controlled by blacks. If black kids go to a school with black teachers, black administrators, a black school board, and is funded (or not) by taxes decided by a black community why is the failure of this school the fault of "white Americans"?
94
Because 'John' has a greater likelihood than 'Jamal' to be invited for a job interview even though both resumes are identical except for the names.
1
I have a solution but you won't like it, brc. I would suggest centralize real estate tax on the state level and distribute them equally on a per capita basis to different school districts. It won't solve all problem but I am sure that it will make the school system more fair and successful and will likely reduce crime and poverty in the long run. But, you won't like it. I know.
brc, you deserve an answer ... because of the exclusive attitude you share of white versus black rather than an inclusive attitude of us Americans. Until you see the equal humanness and effect of each different member of mankind you will continue to divide fault and success as a family birthright. That is what is absent from your perspective without empathy. We all, of human kind, are limited by tribal defines of convenience that make it difficult to see the whole of us as one interactive species dependent upon loving our different neighbor as ourselves. I truly hope this facilitates through you more our desperate need for progressing to be less destructive of "us" irregardless of self centered familial birthrights.
2
I believe the article is slightly off mark -- only slightly, though, at least as to the origins of the disparity of opportunity. It is, alas, as always, money. Many impoverished black families send children to impoverished schools, where they receive a third rate education, and those children are forever (with some exceptions) a lap behind in the race of life.
When I was a child, I thought that all schools were the same -- twelve or thirteen children to a class, with a nice ball field and gym, and a wonderful library where the Lady Behind the Desk would help you find a book and tell you what the big words were, and when you were older, help you with the dictionary so you could figure out the words on your own.
I thought that all families had a mom and dad and plenty of money, and a nice house and car, and a summer home to get out of the city in the heat of July and August.
Until that version of my delusion becomes reality, we cannot expect an equality of "opportunity of performance," as I think of it, that is, a chance to perform at the same level as other children. If Venus and Serena Williams had grown up without tennis in their childhood, would they -- despite the staggering talents -- have grown to dominate their arena?
As to my own delusion, when I was twelve or maybe eleven, we left our little private school in Park Slope and visited a PS in Bed-Sty. My eyes opened and the delusion began to fade...and fade....
When I was a child, I thought that all schools were the same -- twelve or thirteen children to a class, with a nice ball field and gym, and a wonderful library where the Lady Behind the Desk would help you find a book and tell you what the big words were, and when you were older, help you with the dictionary so you could figure out the words on your own.
I thought that all families had a mom and dad and plenty of money, and a nice house and car, and a summer home to get out of the city in the heat of July and August.
Until that version of my delusion becomes reality, we cannot expect an equality of "opportunity of performance," as I think of it, that is, a chance to perform at the same level as other children. If Venus and Serena Williams had grown up without tennis in their childhood, would they -- despite the staggering talents -- have grown to dominate their arena?
As to my own delusion, when I was twelve or maybe eleven, we left our little private school in Park Slope and visited a PS in Bed-Sty. My eyes opened and the delusion began to fade...and fade....
1
Delusion is built on the assumption that my suffering is unique and that the suffering of the group I identify with belongs only to me and my group and constitutes my roots. Yet, truth be told, suffering is just about as universal as it gets. Africans didn't choose to leave Africa. The Irish didn't choose to be forced out of Ireland by famine. Nobody except people on holiday choose to endure the risks and hardships of immigration. When somebody says to me, "My people suffered," I say, yes they did. So did mine." The cry one hungry child is as indistinguishable from another as is the guilty silence of the bystander. We delude ourselves when we think others' suffering isn't as contemporaneous as our own. Yet, to imagine that the myth of class and economic mobility is the reality in the US is to delude oneself. We all know better and we all know that that has to change.
1
Yes!! Thank you for your continued bravery in writing about race.
1
This piece argues that black children are discriminated against in the public school system. It certainly has merit in regard to disciplinary action. This is not true for education level, however. When you control for location and wealth of the parents, blacks have, if anything, and advantage in entering competitive colleges due to affirmative action policies. If you do not control for these factors, you would find that the majority of the blacks children in question live in relatively less well off areas and have parents with lower incomes than in wealthy, white dominated areas. However, those wealthy people pay significantly higher taxes to their municipalities, the state, and the federal government. It is unfair to them if the majority of their money is redirected to poor areas, leaving the schools for their children at a disadvantage.
Mr. Kristoff,
Since you are so good at reprimands and soap box speeches, have you thought about looking at age discrimination as another form of delusion in American culture?
Since you are so good at reprimands and soap box speeches, have you thought about looking at age discrimination as another form of delusion in American culture?
My first job in the early 60's was.
as a reporter for the Philadelphia Evening Bulletin. I had come from England drawn by a deep love of jazz. It didn't take long to figure out how little the paper connected with the Black community. There was one Afro-African reporter, and when I worked on the rewrite desk, the reporters would phone in stories with a preface like "this is a colored slaying, Geoff. Two paragraphs." There seemed to be no knowledge of the richness and diversity of the black community, and it was left to me to write about events such as the funeral of Louis Armstrong's pianist Billy Kyle. I witnessed at first hand the casual, taken-for-granted racism ofthe police force and the routine humiliation of black suspects I should say that I also received much kindness from several black families. Things may be better now, but there is so much further to go. The original stain of slavery seems never to have entirely gone away.
as a reporter for the Philadelphia Evening Bulletin. I had come from England drawn by a deep love of jazz. It didn't take long to figure out how little the paper connected with the Black community. There was one Afro-African reporter, and when I worked on the rewrite desk, the reporters would phone in stories with a preface like "this is a colored slaying, Geoff. Two paragraphs." There seemed to be no knowledge of the richness and diversity of the black community, and it was left to me to write about events such as the funeral of Louis Armstrong's pianist Billy Kyle. I witnessed at first hand the casual, taken-for-granted racism ofthe police force and the routine humiliation of black suspects I should say that I also received much kindness from several black families. Things may be better now, but there is so much further to go. The original stain of slavery seems never to have entirely gone away.
3
The minimum wage was invented by people desiring to disemploy those they said were undesirables, so the latter would give up and not reproduce. Now it is packaged as beneficial to the less skilled. That's delusional. Not just whites think the minimum wage is a good thing.
As a white man married to an African black woman, with mixed-race children, I can confirm that racial bias in the black community is at least as strong as in the white. The difference is that the white community holds the reins of power, so it can make its bias felt more strongly, in concrete ways.
153
The testimony of this physician delves deeply into the black American experience. I know that many of his brethren are similarly both supportive and afraid of the police, while at the same time sympathetic and critical of black youth and gang culture. As a white, I understand that there is prejudice and racism in our policing, schools, courts and everywhere else, but there is also opportunity for those willing to put aside their grievances and become part of the solution. This doctor is an excellent example of someone who chose opportunity over anger.
2
In my immediate neighborhood there is one black family living a few houses away. I can see their well-maintained house from my front porch. Yet for the past 23 years we have never spoken to each other! I used to say "good morning" as the mother walked past. She never looked at me or acknowledged my presence. That family stays completely to itself. I chat with my other (they happen to be white) neighbors. I Just don't get it.
There is no denying that we've made little or no progress addressing racial prejudice. I was hopeful that the election of President Obama signaled a change, but it has not. Instead, we have witnessed even more overt racist behavior, such as the GOP's efforts to eradicate non-existent voter fraud with laws targeting the poor, especially poor black people. The president's first State of the Union speech is interrupted by a white GOP congressman standing and yelling, "You lie!"? A GOP state governor shaking her finger in the president's face caught on video? Would the GOP have said nothing if President Bush had been similarly disrespected? I very much doubt it.
Problem: there is not such thing as “white America”, and it’s racist to assert there is. “White” is a descriptive, not an identity.
My (“white”) kids fear the cops, too. One had his (or, rather, my) car stopped three times and searched once in the space of a single night. So what? Anecdote is not evidence.
When you cite disparate impact statistics, all you’re demonstrating is idiocy. Maybe preschool blacks are more of a problem than whites. (Perhaps the fact that 3/4ths of them are born out of wedlock plays a role?) So, for example, during the “racial profiling” brouhaha in NJ, cops were shown to stop Blacks a lot more. But a study showed that Blacks are something like 75% more likely to speed. Oops. Seems the problem wasn't (wholly) with the cops.
And WHY are the schools Blacks attend “third rate”? Bad buildings? Poor teachers? Or rotten students (see unwed births, supra). No one ever complains that a school is “third rate” because it’s 95% white. Besides, NJ proves this theory nonsense; we spend as much as $35K per kid in “poor” districts and built them educational palaces. With essentially 0 results.
Perhaps, if you, and the rest of the left, would stop engaging in group-think and obsessing about race, and start addressing the catastrophic individual misbehavior which produces disparate impacts, we’d be a lot better served.
My (“white”) kids fear the cops, too. One had his (or, rather, my) car stopped three times and searched once in the space of a single night. So what? Anecdote is not evidence.
When you cite disparate impact statistics, all you’re demonstrating is idiocy. Maybe preschool blacks are more of a problem than whites. (Perhaps the fact that 3/4ths of them are born out of wedlock plays a role?) So, for example, during the “racial profiling” brouhaha in NJ, cops were shown to stop Blacks a lot more. But a study showed that Blacks are something like 75% more likely to speed. Oops. Seems the problem wasn't (wholly) with the cops.
And WHY are the schools Blacks attend “third rate”? Bad buildings? Poor teachers? Or rotten students (see unwed births, supra). No one ever complains that a school is “third rate” because it’s 95% white. Besides, NJ proves this theory nonsense; we spend as much as $35K per kid in “poor” districts and built them educational palaces. With essentially 0 results.
Perhaps, if you, and the rest of the left, would stop engaging in group-think and obsessing about race, and start addressing the catastrophic individual misbehavior which produces disparate impacts, we’d be a lot better served.
How convenient that this column leaves out the National Bureau of Economic Research study that shows police are more likely to shoot whites, not blacks. That would have to be in this column for it to be taken seriously.
4
Why would those results from the 60s be surprising? If you are in a segregated situation, how would you be able to form an opinion about things being different for those of the other race? We are self-segregated now, so the present day poll results are not that surprising either, on the part of blacks or whites.
White delusion is alive and well in the comments to this column as it is across America, only it's not as blithely well-meaning as in Kristof's telling. What's on exhibit is a deep strain of anger and resentment for some intangible, unnamed injury to white people and a virulent contempt for poor African-American communities, blamed for not doing for themselves and their children what it is imagined white communities uniformly do for themselves and their children.
This is the shape of contemporary racism in America. It is fueled by affirmations of equality rather than, as in the past, notions of inherent black inferiority: "There is no more racism. We don't discriminate. It's all their fault." Rather than making Kristof's case that even successful African Americans face life-threatening discrimination, the example of the Dallas trauma surgeon is read as proof of the larger culpability of the African American community: "See, they can succeed if they want to."
This is the shape of contemporary racism in America. It is fueled by affirmations of equality rather than, as in the past, notions of inherent black inferiority: "There is no more racism. We don't discriminate. It's all their fault." Rather than making Kristof's case that even successful African Americans face life-threatening discrimination, the example of the Dallas trauma surgeon is read as proof of the larger culpability of the African American community: "See, they can succeed if they want to."
2
This delusion applies to gender as well- yet this is not in the media. Women and girls of all colors have been enduring discrimination in our families, schools, communities, government and institutions for so long that it's not recognizable and appears as a cultural norm. And we're not a minority. Where's the tension there? Where's the outcry? I guess if Hillary becomes President, our problem is solved. Ha,- more self deception.
1
I don't agree with the fundamental premise of this article.
Blaming our society is just a tired, childish, methodology that has been used to justify ideological social engineering.
Individuals are racists, not societies. Racial discrimination happens at the individual level, not the societal.
I'm not arguing that racial discrimination doesn't happen. But I will argue that, particularly in the case of police, one man's discrimination is another man's opinion based on personal observation and experience.
Most of the people that police deal with are bad people, not good people. Presumption of innocence happens after the arrest, in the trial phase. It is not required at the traffic stop phase. But discipline is required, personal discipline and fire discipline.
I watched some of the recent videos. I saw what I think was at least one bad shooting, the one from Baton Rouge. But was it race based ? I don't see any evidence of that. I do think it was unjustified. We'll have to see what the investigation brings.
Yet a large number of people want to turn it into a racism question, just because the police officers were white. THAT is racism. THAT is racial discrimination.
You can be white, non racist, and still have bad judgement. Every interaction between people from different races is not FIRST based on race, and on all other elements secondary.
Sorry, I don't buy it.
Blaming our society is just a tired, childish, methodology that has been used to justify ideological social engineering.
Individuals are racists, not societies. Racial discrimination happens at the individual level, not the societal.
I'm not arguing that racial discrimination doesn't happen. But I will argue that, particularly in the case of police, one man's discrimination is another man's opinion based on personal observation and experience.
Most of the people that police deal with are bad people, not good people. Presumption of innocence happens after the arrest, in the trial phase. It is not required at the traffic stop phase. But discipline is required, personal discipline and fire discipline.
I watched some of the recent videos. I saw what I think was at least one bad shooting, the one from Baton Rouge. But was it race based ? I don't see any evidence of that. I do think it was unjustified. We'll have to see what the investigation brings.
Yet a large number of people want to turn it into a racism question, just because the police officers were white. THAT is racism. THAT is racial discrimination.
You can be white, non racist, and still have bad judgement. Every interaction between people from different races is not FIRST based on race, and on all other elements secondary.
Sorry, I don't buy it.
1
Facts and statistics surrounding all aspects of the measurable problem should be pumped to the public on a steady basis. Lets take out as much interpretation as possible as a first step. A daily stat on the differences between predominately black neighborhoods and white neighborhoods, focusing on budget dollars spent on policing, education, school building maintenance, training programs, housing; in addition--available jobs and pay scales, would be a great feature on the front page of every local newspaper.
Your column angers me! I work daily with a black Board Certified emergency physician who heads up one of the poorest emergency departments in Georgia. The man is my hero.
From the first shift I brought up “The Case for Reparations” by Ta-Nehisi Coates. In between caring for both poor whites and blacks blocked from adequate care by this state’s Republican governor’s refusal to accept federal Medicaid dollars, we talk of redlining, of how he is going to bring his 6 y/o son up in this country.
I bought him Coates’ book “Between the World and Me” and he said that this was the first gift he had ever been given by a white woman and fellow MD. I was flushed with embarrassment and anger. I said “As good as you are? You should be getting praise and gifts every day!”
I watch his incredible skills in quick diagnosis which saves lives on its own, but when he steps in to suture an artery spurting blood over us and the ceiling, I’ve NEVER seen better hands or better technique! Do you have ANY idea what it is like to work with someone who is SO good that your breath is taken away? Yet he works in the oblivion of a deteriorating hospital and county---it would be like watching Steph Curry playing in a D league of the NBA.
I have watched every day of my life as my black brethren have been praised for some athletic skill, then scorned behind their back.
I left my wealthy family COMPLETELY behind at age 15 as I could no longer stand the racist bigotry.
I weep every day for our POTUS.
From the first shift I brought up “The Case for Reparations” by Ta-Nehisi Coates. In between caring for both poor whites and blacks blocked from adequate care by this state’s Republican governor’s refusal to accept federal Medicaid dollars, we talk of redlining, of how he is going to bring his 6 y/o son up in this country.
I bought him Coates’ book “Between the World and Me” and he said that this was the first gift he had ever been given by a white woman and fellow MD. I was flushed with embarrassment and anger. I said “As good as you are? You should be getting praise and gifts every day!”
I watch his incredible skills in quick diagnosis which saves lives on its own, but when he steps in to suture an artery spurting blood over us and the ceiling, I’ve NEVER seen better hands or better technique! Do you have ANY idea what it is like to work with someone who is SO good that your breath is taken away? Yet he works in the oblivion of a deteriorating hospital and county---it would be like watching Steph Curry playing in a D league of the NBA.
I have watched every day of my life as my black brethren have been praised for some athletic skill, then scorned behind their back.
I left my wealthy family COMPLETELY behind at age 15 as I could no longer stand the racist bigotry.
I weep every day for our POTUS.
2
Question whether O is our first "black president." Giuliani was not first to do so. Not only was 0's mother white, but he attended virtually all white, genteel educational institutions in Hawaii, then Occidental, followed by Columbia and Harvard where most students r from the "grande bourgeoisie." O sends his children to the posh, Mrs. Sidwell Friends School, like many liberal journos of the Washington Press Corps moreover, and has never deigned to visit or spend considerable time in a low income black neighborhood, whether it is Sandtown in Baltimore or in housing projects in Brooklyn where daily life under the tyranny of local drug lords is a fight for survival. Michelle Obama,not speaking a word of Arabic,takes off on a junket to Morocco where she is treated like royalty at tax payer expense, rather than spend that time in the Hood where her presence would have been appreciated.Obama has provided neither leadership nor inspiration for black Americans, and to call him our first "black" president is puffery, a fish story that does not correspond. You r earning ur "pain quotidien,"we get that, and ur viewpoint coincides with that of ur paper. To fail to do so would damage ur career. But must your editorials always put spotlight on what is wrong with US and us whites, and seldom on progress made in race relations since the Dixiecrat Party, led by Strom Thurmond and Fielding Wright, first reared its ugly head at Dem.Party convention in 1948?
1
The biggest hurdle for "discussions" around this issue is that we start by insulting each other before we can even begin.
It devolves from there, both sides say "the heck with this", and nothing ever gets accomplished.
There are some really tough, hard truths on both sides. Until we are willing to come to grips with this, nothing will ever get accomplished. We need to sit down at a table, yell and scream at each other, and find a way a way to get through it.
White majority society intentionally built a defective, dysfunctional system.
In the last 50 years, real, good faith attempts have been made to improve it.
Many of those attempts have been failures.
Rightly or wrongly, a significant percentage of white people look at this and conclude that it isn't "their fault" anymore.
The effort was made, but it wasn't reciprocated with good faith efforts to take advantage of what was provided.
We all need to do a better job. If we can't agree on that, then we have no basis to go forward.
As a white person, however, I will say that this relatively new "idea" that white people are somehow the victims of "reverse racism", or that we are also now an "aggrieved" party is patently ridiculous and completely laughable.
That has about as much basis in fact as the "War on Christmas".
It devolves from there, both sides say "the heck with this", and nothing ever gets accomplished.
There are some really tough, hard truths on both sides. Until we are willing to come to grips with this, nothing will ever get accomplished. We need to sit down at a table, yell and scream at each other, and find a way a way to get through it.
White majority society intentionally built a defective, dysfunctional system.
In the last 50 years, real, good faith attempts have been made to improve it.
Many of those attempts have been failures.
Rightly or wrongly, a significant percentage of white people look at this and conclude that it isn't "their fault" anymore.
The effort was made, but it wasn't reciprocated with good faith efforts to take advantage of what was provided.
We all need to do a better job. If we can't agree on that, then we have no basis to go forward.
As a white person, however, I will say that this relatively new "idea" that white people are somehow the victims of "reverse racism", or that we are also now an "aggrieved" party is patently ridiculous and completely laughable.
That has about as much basis in fact as the "War on Christmas".
There is no doubt that black persons in America have been discriminated against for 300 years. But I believe most people who discriminate on the basis of color are just as willing to discriminate against others on the basis of gender, religion, politics, sexual preference, etc. Discrimination based on skin color is simply easier to practice and easier to detect.
If Mr. Kristol would identify the specific cohorts most likely to discriminate against blacks and compare it a list to those most opposed to gender equality, religious tolerance and gay rights, he would discover a lot of overlap in those groups. The psychology of discrimination is found there.
Mr. K would discover people worried about the future and uncertain about their place in it -- people who don't feel they can afford to practice the Golden Rule of tolerance for others. They don't see themselves as part of the ruling class, but part of the underdog class. To them, discrimination is largely a matter self-protection. (So is carrying a gun.)
That does not make it right, but no solutions will be found without first understanding the people whose behavior poses a problem. Simply pronouncing them wrong is not a solution. If it were, problems would have been solved long ago.
For his part, Mr. Kristol should stop describing white and black people as stereotypes that he can generalize about. Individual people discriminate for specific reasons. Their skin is just along for the ride.
If Mr. Kristol would identify the specific cohorts most likely to discriminate against blacks and compare it a list to those most opposed to gender equality, religious tolerance and gay rights, he would discover a lot of overlap in those groups. The psychology of discrimination is found there.
Mr. K would discover people worried about the future and uncertain about their place in it -- people who don't feel they can afford to practice the Golden Rule of tolerance for others. They don't see themselves as part of the ruling class, but part of the underdog class. To them, discrimination is largely a matter self-protection. (So is carrying a gun.)
That does not make it right, but no solutions will be found without first understanding the people whose behavior poses a problem. Simply pronouncing them wrong is not a solution. If it were, problems would have been solved long ago.
For his part, Mr. Kristol should stop describing white and black people as stereotypes that he can generalize about. Individual people discriminate for specific reasons. Their skin is just along for the ride.
1
Br. Brian Williams makes me proud to be a physician. He also demonstrates the love and mercy of God, who gives so many of us far more than we deserve.
1
Black children have the same chances of white children.
Children from impoverished and blighted neighborhoods have the same chance as children from rich and privileged neighborhoods.
If you think these are true you are delusional.
But equally,
If you do not think we could easily make them true if we lifted our little finger, collectively, then you are also delusional.
It's simply a matter of priority. Would it be expensive, sure it would, but giving every child an opportunity at economic success would end up being the best money we, collectively, as a country, will ever spend.
Here's an example, in NYC, the richest city on the planet and the elementary schools are not air conditioned, the retail stores are all air conditioned and they do not close the doors. The cold air flows out, and the kids in their summer programs pause to enjoy the cool air flowing our of the shops on their way back to the unairconditioned sweltering gym to be housed for the day, really no other word for it, I mean the volunteers try very hard, but they have no money to work with, and the ratio is off the charts. The kids are great. But are they challenged? No. Any one paying attention to them individually? No. Is it the same summer fun time as the rich kids? No. Most of the kids just wish summer was over, so they can get back to school, at least that's interesting.
But equal opportunity for all kids, not even on the radar.
And we pay the cost of that, over and over and over.
Children from impoverished and blighted neighborhoods have the same chance as children from rich and privileged neighborhoods.
If you think these are true you are delusional.
But equally,
If you do not think we could easily make them true if we lifted our little finger, collectively, then you are also delusional.
It's simply a matter of priority. Would it be expensive, sure it would, but giving every child an opportunity at economic success would end up being the best money we, collectively, as a country, will ever spend.
Here's an example, in NYC, the richest city on the planet and the elementary schools are not air conditioned, the retail stores are all air conditioned and they do not close the doors. The cold air flows out, and the kids in their summer programs pause to enjoy the cool air flowing our of the shops on their way back to the unairconditioned sweltering gym to be housed for the day, really no other word for it, I mean the volunteers try very hard, but they have no money to work with, and the ratio is off the charts. The kids are great. But are they challenged? No. Any one paying attention to them individually? No. Is it the same summer fun time as the rich kids? No. Most of the kids just wish summer was over, so they can get back to school, at least that's interesting.
But equal opportunity for all kids, not even on the radar.
And we pay the cost of that, over and over and over.
1
"an even bigger civil rights outrage in America than abuses by some police officers may be an education system that routinely sends the neediest black students to underfunded, third-rate schools, while directing bountiful resources to affluent white schools."
The key word here is AFFLUENT. A quick trip to West Virginia and a look at the schools there will show you that intermingled with and a deep part of the problem is the OTHER hidden shame of America. That is the economic warfare that the wealthy carry on every day in this country against working people of every color.
Whether it's no money for education (slashed and cut throughout the austerity years now in every state), No pay increase in 30 years, Free trade that has enriched corporate and wall street parasites and destroyed thousands of communities, or the open borders that have unleashed millions of poor foreigners on communities across the country (they sure aren't moving into wealthy white neighborhoods), the onslaught against poor and working people in this country by the oblivious elites and their politicians (that's you Hillary and Bill, and Obama too) has been nonstop and unending.
Identity politics has always meant that working class whites needed to take all the cultural and safety risks to integrate, but well off whites could live in gated communities.
Now the technocratic elites are waking up to the world they have created 'for our own good'.
Because they know best.
Get ready for President Trump.
The key word here is AFFLUENT. A quick trip to West Virginia and a look at the schools there will show you that intermingled with and a deep part of the problem is the OTHER hidden shame of America. That is the economic warfare that the wealthy carry on every day in this country against working people of every color.
Whether it's no money for education (slashed and cut throughout the austerity years now in every state), No pay increase in 30 years, Free trade that has enriched corporate and wall street parasites and destroyed thousands of communities, or the open borders that have unleashed millions of poor foreigners on communities across the country (they sure aren't moving into wealthy white neighborhoods), the onslaught against poor and working people in this country by the oblivious elites and their politicians (that's you Hillary and Bill, and Obama too) has been nonstop and unending.
Identity politics has always meant that working class whites needed to take all the cultural and safety risks to integrate, but well off whites could live in gated communities.
Now the technocratic elites are waking up to the world they have created 'for our own good'.
Because they know best.
Get ready for President Trump.
"In fairness, the evidence shows black delusions, too. But . . ." Stopped reading right there since it's clear the author does not want to cover the issue from both perspectives. What's the point of reading further?
Please stop talking about me as if I were an empty bag of white skin for you to fill with statistics. You have no idea what I think, what I've seen, where I've been. Your assumptions about me are racist. And not helpful.
2
As long as Kristof is attacking the innocent, purely on the basis of their skin color, he's part of the problem, not the solution. His generalizations about whites are no different than if he'd said that all blacks were lazy or all Muslims were terrorists. He also has an odd tendency to conflate 1962 with 2016.
4
Nicholas Kristof has it right and the fact that some white readers disagree only proves his point. Denial is invisible to the one who benefits from its rights and privileges.
As an example of the realities that black folks know from a young age, let me share a few of the hand-lettered signs that were being carried at a student-organized #blacklivesmatter protest I attended on Monday evening in Southfield, Michigan, a suburb of Detroit.
Am I Next?
We Comply We Still Might Die!
America hates that we say Black Lives Matter, We hate that we have to say it at all
White Silence Is the Real National Anthem #blacklivesmatter
As an example of the realities that black folks know from a young age, let me share a few of the hand-lettered signs that were being carried at a student-organized #blacklivesmatter protest I attended on Monday evening in Southfield, Michigan, a suburb of Detroit.
Am I Next?
We Comply We Still Might Die!
America hates that we say Black Lives Matter, We hate that we have to say it at all
White Silence Is the Real National Anthem #blacklivesmatter
1
Nothing racist about this comment, is there.....
1
Part of the delusion is that others may be racist, but never ourselves. Try this thought experiment: your daughter is expecting a child but chooses not to tell you about the father's heritage. Are you truly indifferent to the baby's skin color? Will your friends and co-workers care? Will teachers and cops barely notice? If you truly don't care, well done. If you think others wont, you really are delusional
1
Plurality in my child's elementary class was interracial. Modern America isn't all the Deep South or segregated Chicago.
1
As a frequent visitor of the USA let me reassure you that I like most other white foreign visitors am uncomfortable if not scared in the presence of usually nervous or seemingly high strung armoured police officers. This observation notwithstanding many good experiences with such officers.
4
Whites released from incarceration have a hard time finding jobs. No one wants to admit it but they are considered a bad risk, basically unhireable. Now if black youth have a higher percentage of incarceration can you imagine the odds for them getting hired? Take away the incarceration and you still have a high improbability. Reason being that most places that hired black youth had them quit or they were fired for drugs within the first two weeks. I believe they have a tendency to fall into gangs and that starts the whole ball of wax rolling.
Bill, COME to New Rochelle, NY and see how it's done. It's only 1/2 mile from your house in Scarsdale. Come see how people in New Rochelle have put their money with their mouths are! Come and see how all our children do, with good schools in every part of town and equal opportunity for all children. Come and report how they do. No town is as diverse as New Rochelle in the country! Then let's have a conversation. We here have chosen to "rub elbows". If diversity is really prized by the intellectual elite, New Rochelle real estate should be the most sought after in the U.S., much more so than Scarsdale or Chappaqua.
Dr. Brian Williams spoke powerfully and with gravitas about events in Dallas and from the unique position of a black trauma surgeon desperately trying to save the lives of white police officers. Will his words matter? I hope so.
I can only hope as well that Mr. Kristof's thoughts about race-based inequality in this country provide some enlightenment to those who do not get it or who do not want to. But I that Kristof's words are either preaching to the choir or just illicit more anger and mistrust among non-believers. Someone tell me why I'm wrong.
I can only hope as well that Mr. Kristof's thoughts about race-based inequality in this country provide some enlightenment to those who do not get it or who do not want to. But I that Kristof's words are either preaching to the choir or just illicit more anger and mistrust among non-believers. Someone tell me why I'm wrong.
1
The first delusion we must lose is believing that not wanting to be racist is the same as not being racist. We live in a racist society, one where we can all admit that the first thing we notice about people,even before gender, is race. Unconscious biases and prejudices exist ,how can we not be racist? But once we acknowledge our inherent biases we can then begin to fight them. As Chris Rock said "none of you would change places with me, and I'm rich" Acknowledgement of our biases is the only road to correcting them.
2
I propose a three-pronged attack on the racial divide: 1) jobs, 2) full employment, and 3) more jobs.
For too long, job creation has been an afterthought: the presumptive by-product of economic growth. It turns out that jobs will be created on large scale only when policy makers make that their primary focus.
Democrats, please take note.
For too long, job creation has been an afterthought: the presumptive by-product of economic growth. It turns out that jobs will be created on large scale only when policy makers make that their primary focus.
Democrats, please take note.
Chief Justice Roberts and his cohorts on the supreme court said racism is over in America and gutted the Voting Rights Act. Who are Nicholas Kristof and the NYT to contradict the wisdom of Roberts, Alito, Scalia, and the wisest jurist of all Thomas.
1
Nick, thank you for saying what had to be said. So many people who are white view the world through their own experience and don't understand that is not a complete view. As a country, we in the white majority, need to get off our pedestals and see the country as it really is. That won't solve anything in and of itself, but it will be a beginning toward something better and hopefully more enlightened.
This much more than opinion - it is facts. It is sad that so many do not understand that.
1
I'm white. I was riveted to PBS's Eyes on the Prize series when I was twelve years old. I'd had no idea things like y, fire hoses, and lynchings had ever happened until I watched that series.
For a long time, I thought things were basically fine because things like that didn't seem to happen anymore, but since last year, I've been dating a Black man.
Last year, I was pulled over on a residential street for expired registration while he was a passenger in my car. I was not speeding, and I was insured. THREE COP CARS AND SIX OFFICERS came to the scene. We're law-abiding citizens, and we fully cooperated with the police. The scales have finally begun to fall from my eyes.
For a long time, I thought things were basically fine because things like that didn't seem to happen anymore, but since last year, I've been dating a Black man.
Last year, I was pulled over on a residential street for expired registration while he was a passenger in my car. I was not speeding, and I was insured. THREE COP CARS AND SIX OFFICERS came to the scene. We're law-abiding citizens, and we fully cooperated with the police. The scales have finally begun to fall from my eyes.
2
During the administration of Lyndon Johnson, a New York City school psychologist, Dr. Howard, developed a program of bringing promising young black children from the slums of Harlem to the countryside of Newtown, CT. I was privileged to be asked by my church pastor to assist him on an overnight camp-out with some of those youth. Unfortunately, Dr. Howard's project lost funding and ended up giving many people the wrong impression of the project's goals as Dr. Howard got arrested for selling raffle tickets in order to keep the project going. . Dr. Howard believed these young people needed exposure to a cultural climate outside the slums. He found many of those young people gave up because they felt trapped in the slums, never being able to escape. Has anything changed since then? Ae there other DR. Howards who could help improve the lot of the youth of the slums?
The media and President Obama have put the race subject in front of every American constantly. So how could anyone think they would not stir a hatred. Educated blacks (and others) fare as well as whites in career advancement as well as living in any suburb in the U.S. they desire. Perhaps more minorities should be encouraged to enter law enforcement to better their neighborhoods.
Racism does not "surround us". It is a false narrative when one steps back and looks at the entire picture. Police officers are proportionally more likely to be shot, assaulted and killed when dealing with the black community than any other demographic. To a sane person, that means, the way police officer's approach and deal with a community is naturally effected by the proportionality of crime, and especially violent crime, they face. Its like me putting you in a room with two animals... a rabbit and a poisonous snake. I guarantee you that you would treat the snake much different than the rabbit. Police are faced with the same perceived differences (based on understanding the factual data of violent crime in both demographics). The answer is... the black community needs to clean up their thugs and demand more accountability from "their people", especially young black males who commit the majority of killings, assaults, rapes, etc.
The illusion is not just in white America. The UK presents itself as a white culture in its national icons, yet there has historically been a large black population. I wonder how it feels to be black in the UK and not have your identity reflected in the national identity, and then, when you protest, to be told to keep quiet about it.
1
I'm a fan of Mr. Kristof. I'm also a Caucasian.
But what's with the use, twice, of the term "well
meaning whites?"
But what's with the use, twice, of the term "well
meaning whites?"
The African American Dr. is like many African American military people. They know, when in their military uniform they are respected. Once out of their military uniform, they're on the menu and viewed with suspicion.
Whites aren't "accidentally" shot dead for:
Walking down a stairwell
Sitting in a picnic table
Broken tail light
Failure to use turn signal
Selling music CD's
Selling cigarettes
Only white cops do this, not African American cops.
These misdemeanor offenses should warrant a ticket, not a hail of bullets.
Whites aren't "accidentally" shot dead for:
Walking down a stairwell
Sitting in a picnic table
Broken tail light
Failure to use turn signal
Selling music CD's
Selling cigarettes
Only white cops do this, not African American cops.
These misdemeanor offenses should warrant a ticket, not a hail of bullets.
1
First, let's recognize that we have made progress in racial justice in the past 30 or so years.
Second, let's recognize that we are not were we should be.
Third, let's recognize that the progress we have made can obscure the progress we still need to make.
Ask (most) any white person (like me) today and they will tell you they are not racist. As evidence they will cite a black person in their life who they treat on equal terms with white people. This insulates them in their minds from charges of racism.
When they see a black man shot by police, they give the benefit of the doubt to the policeman and assume the black man must have done something wrong to precipitate or worsen the situation. They would tell you the black man in their lives would never find themselves in a similar situation. The conversation between those friends, co-workders, neighbors and acquaintances covering the black man's real experiences with police in his life has to happen. These episodes are still considered as unusual by the white community. They need to be made personal.
I am reminded of the lyrics from CSN&Y in the song Ohio:
"What if you knew her and found her dead on the ground?"
Second, let's recognize that we are not were we should be.
Third, let's recognize that the progress we have made can obscure the progress we still need to make.
Ask (most) any white person (like me) today and they will tell you they are not racist. As evidence they will cite a black person in their life who they treat on equal terms with white people. This insulates them in their minds from charges of racism.
When they see a black man shot by police, they give the benefit of the doubt to the policeman and assume the black man must have done something wrong to precipitate or worsen the situation. They would tell you the black man in their lives would never find themselves in a similar situation. The conversation between those friends, co-workders, neighbors and acquaintances covering the black man's real experiences with police in his life has to happen. These episodes are still considered as unusual by the white community. They need to be made personal.
I am reminded of the lyrics from CSN&Y in the song Ohio:
"What if you knew her and found her dead on the ground?"
1
At the risk of pointing out the obvious re Mr. Kristof in part 7 (10?) of how stupid white people are in commenting on racial matters, who appointed Nic as the expert to whitesplain to the rest of us? Or since, you have chosen to frame this as a psychiatric matter, Nic where did you get the script that allows you to see through these delusions that everyone else suffers from? Or is it just your own moral superiority that allows you to see through the fog that blinds everyone else?
What about the violence, Nick? It dwarfs that of other communities, both intra- and inter-. And it's not an abstraction; it has a significant effect on all those who aren't wealthy enough (like yourself) to live a comfortable distance from it. A reasonable, experience-based fear of violence is clearly what drives many officers' excessive aggression toward African-Americans.
2
"...an education system that routinely sends the neediest black students to underfunded, third-rate schools..."
Well, we also have plenty of evidence that shows throwing money at those schools does not improve things. Context is everything, and when you have urban environments in which close to 80% of African-American women are raising their children in difficult circumstances without their father around, you've got a far greater problem than "third-rate schools".
This, Mr. Kristof, is where you need to point your blaming finger, not at police statistics. The police statistics are only a symptom, just as the fact that the vast majority of violent shootings are between African-American men.
You don't point your finger at the African-American family, community or social life because you have no idea how to change this situation. Yes, endemic historical racism has played a central role in causing the Comptons, South-Central LAs, Detroits, St. Louis's, or Baltimores of this country, and it is important that we recognize this, but doing so does not get us out of the situation we're in as a country.
My Canadian family moved to Southern California the same summer the television images of the Watts Riots dominated the news media. Some five decades later here we are, with these same urban wastelands dominating our attention. Why? Because the Nicholas Kristofs of the world are focusing on police statistics and bad schools, and not at the real source of the problem...
Well, we also have plenty of evidence that shows throwing money at those schools does not improve things. Context is everything, and when you have urban environments in which close to 80% of African-American women are raising their children in difficult circumstances without their father around, you've got a far greater problem than "third-rate schools".
This, Mr. Kristof, is where you need to point your blaming finger, not at police statistics. The police statistics are only a symptom, just as the fact that the vast majority of violent shootings are between African-American men.
You don't point your finger at the African-American family, community or social life because you have no idea how to change this situation. Yes, endemic historical racism has played a central role in causing the Comptons, South-Central LAs, Detroits, St. Louis's, or Baltimores of this country, and it is important that we recognize this, but doing so does not get us out of the situation we're in as a country.
My Canadian family moved to Southern California the same summer the television images of the Watts Riots dominated the news media. Some five decades later here we are, with these same urban wastelands dominating our attention. Why? Because the Nicholas Kristofs of the world are focusing on police statistics and bad schools, and not at the real source of the problem...
Senator Tim Scott (R) South Carolina was on the floor of the Senate yesterday sharing his personal experience of being racially profiled by the police on several occasions since he's been a US Senator. It's hard to deny racial profiling exists but I would have thought by time you get to be a US Senator it wouldn't happen anymore, especially when you are wearing a pin that all US Senators wear.
2
White delusion is real. It is evidenced by articles like this, in which a white man asserts that the biggest threat to Black America is the police. The question is whether the delusion is authentic, as in Mr. Kristof actually believes what he is writing, or if this "delusion" is simply a way for those on the left to garner loyalty from a voting block.
There are hard questions to be asked. Why do blacks, who make up ~13% of the total us population, commit more than half of all murders in the US? In addition to this, would we expect half of all people killed by the police to be black? Yet only 26% of those killed by police are indeed black.
So here are the facts: blacks are statistically more likely to commit murder than whites and are less likely to be killed by police than whites.
Again, there are plenty of hard questions to be asked. Who has the courage to ask them?
There are hard questions to be asked. Why do blacks, who make up ~13% of the total us population, commit more than half of all murders in the US? In addition to this, would we expect half of all people killed by the police to be black? Yet only 26% of those killed by police are indeed black.
So here are the facts: blacks are statistically more likely to commit murder than whites and are less likely to be killed by police than whites.
Again, there are plenty of hard questions to be asked. Who has the courage to ask them?
1
Black children who are born to a married couple have similar poverty rates as white children born to a married couple. White children born to a single mother have much higher poverty rates than black children born to a married couple.
But for whatever reason. the liberal left continues to sweep under the rug the most pressing issue of our time - 72% of black children born to unwed mothers, meaning the rate must exceed 90% in poor inner city neighborhoods. And all sorts of horrible outcomes happen when there are no husbands and committed fathers in neighborhoods.
But for whatever reason. the liberal left continues to sweep under the rug the most pressing issue of our time - 72% of black children born to unwed mothers, meaning the rate must exceed 90% in poor inner city neighborhoods. And all sorts of horrible outcomes happen when there are no husbands and committed fathers in neighborhoods.
3
One comment below talks about black victimization in terms of foreigners that come here not speaking the language, few connections etc, not complaining and trying to get ahead thereby implying Blacks should shut up and do the same.
This is a typical racist attitude among many whites. They disregard and minimize the impact that slavery, Jim Crow laws, segregation, overt and subtle racism, poor schools, drugs, gangs have had on black communities.
Now that Heroin is epidemic in white suburbs, its suddenly a "disease," that needs medical intervention. In the 60s and 70s the attitude among whites, lawmakers and police was we need to lock drug users up because they are a menace. We did exactly that and broke up hundreds of thousands of families. And we justified it all by saying they brought it on themselves. The hypocrisy in this country is astounding.
This is a typical racist attitude among many whites. They disregard and minimize the impact that slavery, Jim Crow laws, segregation, overt and subtle racism, poor schools, drugs, gangs have had on black communities.
Now that Heroin is epidemic in white suburbs, its suddenly a "disease," that needs medical intervention. In the 60s and 70s the attitude among whites, lawmakers and police was we need to lock drug users up because they are a menace. We did exactly that and broke up hundreds of thousands of families. And we justified it all by saying they brought it on themselves. The hypocrisy in this country is astounding.
1
I'll believe the left is serious about this problem when Democrats support measures to end out-of-wedlock births (be they black, white, or other).
3
Well, we could make sex illegal, without a permit. And confiscate the illegitimate babies and sterilize their parents. Then we could send them all to "Work makes (you) free" camps. But the righties already tried that.
1
"There are none so blind as those who will not see".
The disparate treatment of our African American and Hispanic citizens is not invisible to White America as it might have been in 1963. It is visible in news, books such as Michelle Alexander's and Bryan Stevenson's. But Facebook has finally shone a light in our darkest corners.
Now that we see, what will we do? I recommend volunteering for organizations such as CASA that advocates for abused/neglected children (most are poor from minority families). As that child's advocate you get a bird's eye view of discrimination. See how "your' child doesn't get the same benefits from schools that your own kids get as a given. Go see, America. You will be shocked.
The disparate treatment of our African American and Hispanic citizens is not invisible to White America as it might have been in 1963. It is visible in news, books such as Michelle Alexander's and Bryan Stevenson's. But Facebook has finally shone a light in our darkest corners.
Now that we see, what will we do? I recommend volunteering for organizations such as CASA that advocates for abused/neglected children (most are poor from minority families). As that child's advocate you get a bird's eye view of discrimination. See how "your' child doesn't get the same benefits from schools that your own kids get as a given. Go see, America. You will be shocked.
Thank you for this thoughtful and accurate piece. Delusion is the word, and delusions are tough to clear away, especially when supported by long-term ideology. White America has never repented of the sins of slavery, and therefore has never really admitted its tragedy. When confronted by it, America simply retreats into its delusion, denying the reality, and thus getting itself off the hook of responsibility. Will it change? Surely, with time, and the constant work of good journalists, such as yourself, and millions of others who do not run from the reality, but deal with it and seek solutions.
As a middle class white woman, my moment of truth was when I served on a jury. I participated in two cases, with one Hispanic suspect, and one black. The smirking attitude of the officer (who recognized the license plate called in by someone on a cell phone for suspected DUI) who went out of jurisdiction to the guy's house, sirens blaring, into his yard, threatened him as he sat on his front porch, and after a ludicrous engagement involving the officer inadvertently tasing himself and his partner as well as the suspect, the suspect was shot in the stomach; for not immediately coming along peacefully. The trial was of the suspected DUI, not the officer. Though he spent hours in surgery, no blood alcohol level was ever offered in trial. The evidence was that the officer 'could tell' he was drunk: his eyes 'were glazed'. He was found guilty by a majority of the jury because of a previous DUI. No consequences for the officer. What also shocked me was the attitudes of the white males on the jury. They had no concept that the suspect may not have the same feeling of security with police officers that they do. It was, "if he had just cooperated" (with a belligerant, out of jurisdiction officer who clearly had it in for him). The judge said that the jurisdictional issue was moot since it could be regarded as a citizen's arrest (two police cars, sirens, etc.) Oh, the dash cam was somehow not working. It was a wakeup moment for me.
1
In my opinion, we have had "conversations" about this topic entirely too long. We have studied this to death and used resources to do it. We need to put concrete policies in place: funding for schools by states rather than local property taxes, assessment and re-assessment of teaching abilities, all children in publicly supported schools with the extras we used to consider necessary: breakfast, lunches, music, art, phys. ed., school nurse and help with children with behavioral problems. Personal reflection on how much one is part of the problem and what can I do to change myself.
This country has a white problem. They created it, they perpetuate it and they benefit from it. When asked if they would want to be treated the way people of color are treated, they always remain silent or answer no. That says they know what's going on but choose to ignore it because it benefits them. We cannot and will not begin the process of address our country's original sins unless and until we develop a means of white people acknowledging and committing to change the societal systems we are all governed by. We must stop with the yapping and handwringing and start doing. First, create a mandatory service system for all eighteen year olds who will work in diverse teams to identify and address issues within our communities. Stop the ability of governments and judicial retirement systems to directly benefit from fines and penalties. Such monies should be returned to the general fund for financing the mandatory service program. Three, all government subsidies. including tax exemptions, of any form should cease until an organization can demonstrate actual efforts to end our societal systems of discrimination. A beginning.
1
I agree with your remarks about the existence of continued racial discrimination in this country. But I think some perspective is needed. I grew up in Texas during the fifties. Discrimination was so bad I could recognize it at age six. In the decades since progress has been amazing. I have seen schools integrated successfully. I have employed blacks and whites working together including black managers. More significantly I see blacks and whites go to lunch together. I have seen many genuine friendships formed between the races. I know we have a long way to go but we are making definite progress so that my grandchildren are growing up in a different world and that’s progress.
So long as blacks go on expecting their problems to be solved by whites, those problems will persist. Whites can't get blacks to quit having fatherless families; whites can't get blacks to quit dropping out of, or sleeping through, school.
3
Read the Times morgue columns in 1962, Nicholas. Do you notice any columns such as yours writing from the same perspective, deploring general majority white racial attitudes? As many will recall, the most read. Times columnists in 1962 were likely written by conservative white columnists critical of black civil rights group demands, Anthony Lewis being an exception.
Let's be honest: racial attitudes changed for the better. And the 1962 majority attitudes surveyed about a lot of things, such as youth smoking attitudes surveyed, have gone from deplorable to admirable - from our present majority attitude perspective. And here's what's wrong scientifically with your glib recitation of survey attitudes that change day-to-day: you have not offered us contrasting attitude surveys on race of blacks and whites whose racial attitudes became tolerant since then.
So how do you know where the racial relations trends are changing for the better? How do you know what changed white racial attitudes, such as perhaps the racially biased white police here whom Dr. Brian Williams treated for wounds, or treated to lunch? is it that money and status "whitens" for them as they say in polyglot Brazil? That if you must befriend a black person, make sure he's rich? Or is it that the police here have really become post-racial? Find out!
Let's be honest: racial attitudes changed for the better. And the 1962 majority attitudes surveyed about a lot of things, such as youth smoking attitudes surveyed, have gone from deplorable to admirable - from our present majority attitude perspective. And here's what's wrong scientifically with your glib recitation of survey attitudes that change day-to-day: you have not offered us contrasting attitude surveys on race of blacks and whites whose racial attitudes became tolerant since then.
So how do you know where the racial relations trends are changing for the better? How do you know what changed white racial attitudes, such as perhaps the racially biased white police here whom Dr. Brian Williams treated for wounds, or treated to lunch? is it that money and status "whitens" for them as they say in polyglot Brazil? That if you must befriend a black person, make sure he's rich? Or is it that the police here have really become post-racial? Find out!
1
I lived through the civil rights movements of the 1960s, and I saw my white, lower-middle class racist father change his tune. Where he used to liberally sprinkle the n-word into his conversations, he never once uttered it again after Bull Conner set the dogs on those poor protesters. He changed fron an out spoken, racist, literal Okie from Muskogee into a tolerant citizen. I saw this with my own eyes. I know people can change, can have their eyes opened.
Please look into your heart and put yourself, or your family, the people you love, into the situations and brutal mistreatment dealt out on a routine basis to out our black and brown brothers and sisters. Try to imagine what it must be like to be mistreated and discriminated against all your life. Find some compassion and empathy and if you at long last feel unease, you can change too.
Please look into your heart and put yourself, or your family, the people you love, into the situations and brutal mistreatment dealt out on a routine basis to out our black and brown brothers and sisters. Try to imagine what it must be like to be mistreated and discriminated against all your life. Find some compassion and empathy and if you at long last feel unease, you can change too.
271
I was born in 1949 in deep south Georgia and still live here. Regarding racist attitudes toward blacks, I've seen and heard some ugly stuff, particularly in the 50s and early 60s. Even as a little white boy I knew somehow that something was wrong. Something is still wrong all these years latter and I fear that something will be wrong years from now.
I've seen the ugliness of small town policing, experienced with my lonnnng hair in the 60s. I don't like the police. Never have, never will. They should be treated like EMTs: Keep them in a building; if we need them we'll call them.
I've seen the ugliness of small town policing, experienced with my lonnnng hair in the 60s. I don't like the police. Never have, never will. They should be treated like EMTs: Keep them in a building; if we need them we'll call them.
1
I can tell you what will not forward a meaningful dialog, Another acknowledge you white privilege article. These only function to increase and entrench division.
2
Without disputing the point made by Nicholas Kristof about the self-delusion of white Americans regarding discrimination against black people, that is not the full story.
There are plenty of white Americans who know that black Americans do not have equal opportunities and that blacks are treated unfairly by our criminal justice system.
Some of those white Americans who know the truth speak out for our fellow citizens who are black.
Some of those white Americans who know the truth simply lie about it on opinion polls, in daily conversation, and in making business decisions. They are not deluding themselves – they are simply dishonest.
There are plenty of white Americans who know that black Americans do not have equal opportunities and that blacks are treated unfairly by our criminal justice system.
Some of those white Americans who know the truth speak out for our fellow citizens who are black.
Some of those white Americans who know the truth simply lie about it on opinion polls, in daily conversation, and in making business decisions. They are not deluding themselves – they are simply dishonest.
I don't believe in "mass delusions". Some people are racist and others are not.
Some blacks are racist and some whites are racist. Actually calling all white people racist is just as racist as calling all blacks thugs. This language does not promote racial justice or harmony .
Some blacks are racist and some whites are racist. Actually calling all white people racist is just as racist as calling all blacks thugs. This language does not promote racial justice or harmony .
6
There's something else. Not just racists, many, many of the same white people hate gays, environmentalists, Muslims, unionists, and on and on and on.
1
I believe Mr. Kristof should be more specific and expansive when using the phrase "racial justice". In most shooting incidents, the shooters have been charged and tried, not always to everyone's satisfaction. Is this not "justice" as required by our laws?
2
Mr Kristoff, no one going through the public school system gets a good education. Perhaps you should investigate that, and focus on how this resulted even though we spend more on education with every passing year.
Mr Kristoff, so long as the lepers who are elected to government continue to spend money like drunken sailors and give their pet bank the Federal Reserve permission to intentionally devalue the dollar on a daily basis, everyone's job prospects are easily shattered. Perhaps you should investigate that.
Mr Kristoff, so long as the lepers who are elected to government continue to spend money like drunken sailors and give their pet bank the Federal Reserve permission to intentionally devalue the dollar on a daily basis, everyone's job prospects are easily shattered. Perhaps you should investigate that.
4
If blacks didn't commit such a disproportionate amount of violent crime maybe the police would be targeting someone else. Sad thing is, most of this violence is against other blacks. No one really wants to talk about that.
7
Maybe it has more to do with poverty than race? But that wouldn't fit your prejudice.
2
I thought everyone feared the police. I fear anyone who has a gun. I thought that was the point of carrying a gun-so people would fear you.
5
You know what white people detest the most? It has nothing to do with inequality or racial fears. It's simple. It's listening to white elites or reading columns from white elites about how we need to change our ways or our thinking towards blacks.
Please put a sock in it Mr Kristoff. Your "lectures" only make things worse
Next topic please
Please put a sock in it Mr Kristoff. Your "lectures" only make things worse
Next topic please
12
Even someone who is "elite" might be right some of the time--don't you think? You only dislike "elites" when they make you uncomfortable. I don't hear anyone calling Rudolf Giuliani (career politician, multi-millionaire) or Sean Hannity and Bill O'Rielly "elites". With their mansions, private planes etc. they certainly seem to live in a rarified atmosphere disconnected from the rest of us.
Since they do nothing but criticize and complain about African-Americans and think racism is what people of color do to white people they're o.k.
Since they do nothing but criticize and complain about African-Americans and think racism is what people of color do to white people they're o.k.
You can bet there will be commenters here who say: "It's the Blacks' fault. They commit the crimes. They tear up the bad neighborhoods they live in. They are disruptive at school. See? It's their fault.
1
Errors in thinking are always made. Thank you Mr. Kristof; I watch my thinking. I hope you do too or is the point of your article that I should surrender my thinking to the New York Times.
What do you propose; do you would knowledge that our current liberal thinking may be wrong? Or is it just paralysis by shaming.
What do you propose; do you would knowledge that our current liberal thinking may be wrong? Or is it just paralysis by shaming.
I reject Nick’s premise. I know NO white people who delude themselves about the very real challenges blacks face every day in our collective America. Are there some, even many, who do? I don’t doubt it, but is it a GENERAL delusion? No, it’s not.
I’d suggest that what’s happening today (and not in 1962 … or 1862) is that people who in their hearts understand the monumental extent of sacrifice we all will need to make to fully mainstream our black population fear that sacrifice, and make excuses as pretexts for putting it off. An unwillingness to address their own challenges in ghettos resulting in excessive violence and gang-related predation. A dissolving of the family infrastructure that normally acculturates kids but so dreadfully fails at this basic human responsibility in our poorest communities. A willingness to accept public largesse with too little effort to break those generational shackles of dependency.
Is there any truth in these excuses? Sure: so many wouldn’t embrace them if they didn’t contain SOME truth. But we ignore the fact that ANY human cohort would develop such social dysfunctions if subjected to the conscious and intense prejudice, not to mention enslavement, to which we subjected and still subject our black population.
But this is a battle of conflicting INTERESTS, not primarily of perceptions. Until we successfully make the argument that shouldering the sacrifice of full mainstreaming is in our COLLECTIVE interests, expect millions to put it off.
I’d suggest that what’s happening today (and not in 1962 … or 1862) is that people who in their hearts understand the monumental extent of sacrifice we all will need to make to fully mainstream our black population fear that sacrifice, and make excuses as pretexts for putting it off. An unwillingness to address their own challenges in ghettos resulting in excessive violence and gang-related predation. A dissolving of the family infrastructure that normally acculturates kids but so dreadfully fails at this basic human responsibility in our poorest communities. A willingness to accept public largesse with too little effort to break those generational shackles of dependency.
Is there any truth in these excuses? Sure: so many wouldn’t embrace them if they didn’t contain SOME truth. But we ignore the fact that ANY human cohort would develop such social dysfunctions if subjected to the conscious and intense prejudice, not to mention enslavement, to which we subjected and still subject our black population.
But this is a battle of conflicting INTERESTS, not primarily of perceptions. Until we successfully make the argument that shouldering the sacrifice of full mainstreaming is in our COLLECTIVE interests, expect millions to put it off.
17
@Richard Luettgen
Everything in your reasoning is correct but I assure you, as someone who's spent most of my life in The South, there are indeed numerous deluded individuals among us. Too numerous to count!
Everything in your reasoning is correct but I assure you, as someone who's spent most of my life in The South, there are indeed numerous deluded individuals among us. Too numerous to count!
5
Spoken like a privileged white. :/
5
Clearly you are not asking the right white people. Plenty of them are rejecting that black people are being treated more unfairly the white people.
Look through some of the comments here from black people who are physicians, well-educated people, army veterans, who all experienced blatant profiling because of their race, being pulled over to make sure they didn't steal the car, etc.
It is clearly a battle of interest AND a battle of perception. Denying the latter is not helpful, and only hinders progress
Look through some of the comments here from black people who are physicians, well-educated people, army veterans, who all experienced blatant profiling because of their race, being pulled over to make sure they didn't steal the car, etc.
It is clearly a battle of interest AND a battle of perception. Denying the latter is not helpful, and only hinders progress
6
The book written by Lisbeth Schorr and her husband Daniel Schorr makes one extremely important point: programs for poor people are poor programs. Since many politicians use poor as code for black it's not surprising that there is systemic racism embedded in our criminal justice system, our education systems, our housing, and many other aspects of life in America. Our Nuremberg laws are unspoken but just as rigid as the original laws that singled out Jews in Germany.
It could be said that the policies we push cause the problems we see and claim are the fault of the people forced to live with those policies. We don't tell rich women that they have to work while they have children if they want to stay home and care for them. We do tell poor women to do that. Then we blame these women when their children get into trouble. But we don't provide the good quality resources that are needed for the women or the children. We do the same for housing. Instead of putting up decent housing and maintaining it we put up cheap housing, fail to maintain it, put it areas that are bad, and then blame the people for it, all the people.
If we want to help people, poor or otherwise, black or whatever, we need to look at quality. It costs more to provide good quality day care for all, a good education for all but it costs a lot less than prison, welfare, or controlling riots. As a rich country we can afford to do more for the poor and everyone else.
It could be said that the policies we push cause the problems we see and claim are the fault of the people forced to live with those policies. We don't tell rich women that they have to work while they have children if they want to stay home and care for them. We do tell poor women to do that. Then we blame these women when their children get into trouble. But we don't provide the good quality resources that are needed for the women or the children. We do the same for housing. Instead of putting up decent housing and maintaining it we put up cheap housing, fail to maintain it, put it areas that are bad, and then blame the people for it, all the people.
If we want to help people, poor or otherwise, black or whatever, we need to look at quality. It costs more to provide good quality day care for all, a good education for all but it costs a lot less than prison, welfare, or controlling riots. As a rich country we can afford to do more for the poor and everyone else.
29
By far the richest school system, private or non-private, in the world is in Hawaii. Controversially, it has only admitted indigenous Hawaiians – with two famous exceptions.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/27/us/school-set-aside-for-hawaiians-ends...
The students' eventual outcomes after leaving Kamehameha Schools? Not so great, despite the stunning views and all the advantages. Hawaii is no indigenous paradise.
There is more to being well schooled than the wealth of the school. Being well schooled is not the same as being well educated. Being well educated does not necessarily lead to socioeconomic success and personal well being.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/27/us/school-set-aside-for-hawaiians-ends...
The students' eventual outcomes after leaving Kamehameha Schools? Not so great, despite the stunning views and all the advantages. Hawaii is no indigenous paradise.
There is more to being well schooled than the wealth of the school. Being well schooled is not the same as being well educated. Being well educated does not necessarily lead to socioeconomic success and personal well being.
14
What's your point? That it's okay to defund schools?
In 1960, I was the 11-year old son of a US diplomat living in Amman, Jordan. We Americans were the "minority" and there were plenty of fights with the local boys as a result. Nothing, however, prepared me for the arrival of an African American family to the post.
I clearly remember now, 60 years later, what my own father -- the holder of a Harvard Universiry doctorate and the man specifically requested by the King of Jordan to be the focal point for the creation of Jordan's university system -- said to me one day when I can home excited because the newly-arrived family had a boy my age and in my class at school!
"You cannot play with him. We just don't associate with those people."
That was my first ever experience with overt racism; it also wasn't long after that the family moved away. I do not know why, but my guess is race was the primary reason.
We are still making the same choices now.
I clearly remember now, 60 years later, what my own father -- the holder of a Harvard Universiry doctorate and the man specifically requested by the King of Jordan to be the focal point for the creation of Jordan's university system -- said to me one day when I can home excited because the newly-arrived family had a boy my age and in my class at school!
"You cannot play with him. We just don't associate with those people."
That was my first ever experience with overt racism; it also wasn't long after that the family moved away. I do not know why, but my guess is race was the primary reason.
We are still making the same choices now.
81
For a short period of time in the mid-1960's, a little black girl went to my elementary school in Southern California. I remember her complaining to a "safety" (an older kid supposed to help keep order on the playground) that another child had called her by the "n" word. The safety replied, "Well, you are." I brought her home one day with me to play (I lived about a block from the school.) After that day, my mother (who grew up in Texas) told me that I wasn't allowed to play with her. I still feel bad that I didn't speak up for her on the playground. I don't think she was at the school for a full school year.
3
This reminds me of when I was in high school in 1963, and my best friend was a black girl. My father warned me that if I "became friends with a 'Negro girl," I would end up dating "Negro boys." As a Jewish girl, I was supposed to date Jewish boys only.
Well, eventually, my friend grew up to be a professional with a PhD, and she married a Harvard Law grad. The irony? Her husband is white Jewish, and she converted to Judaism before she married him.
So much for having a "Negro girl" friend leading me to date "Negro boys."
Well, eventually, my friend grew up to be a professional with a PhD, and she married a Harvard Law grad. The irony? Her husband is white Jewish, and she converted to Judaism before she married him.
So much for having a "Negro girl" friend leading me to date "Negro boys."
3
I am a black woman, was sent to the best private schools growing up, and have a great professional career. My heart races every time I have to interact with the police, out of fear. Yet, I value the overall services they provide and their dedication to protecting us.
In my opinion, the central issue is that many whites in America just don't get it. The "it" is that, as Mr. Kristoff described, black people are discriminated against in nearly every walk of life. And by "get" I mean that many white people have not accepted our truth; that black people suffer disparate treatment today, still, in the 21st century.
I have met white people who want to "get it," who want to understand. But sometimes feel shut out by the frustration of black people talking about racial issues.
From my perspective, America needs a Truth and Reconciliation process. A formal one, nationwide. This would give black people from all walks of life an opportunity to talk about how they have been treated differently/disadvantaged because we are black. And white America would need to their part too: don't question it, don't undermine it, don't pick it apart. Rather, white people need to believe us, accept our truths as factual, and work with us to finally (after hundreds of years) heal and move past this issue.
In my opinion, the central issue is that many whites in America just don't get it. The "it" is that, as Mr. Kristoff described, black people are discriminated against in nearly every walk of life. And by "get" I mean that many white people have not accepted our truth; that black people suffer disparate treatment today, still, in the 21st century.
I have met white people who want to "get it," who want to understand. But sometimes feel shut out by the frustration of black people talking about racial issues.
From my perspective, America needs a Truth and Reconciliation process. A formal one, nationwide. This would give black people from all walks of life an opportunity to talk about how they have been treated differently/disadvantaged because we are black. And white America would need to their part too: don't question it, don't undermine it, don't pick it apart. Rather, white people need to believe us, accept our truths as factual, and work with us to finally (after hundreds of years) heal and move past this issue.
685
I would welcome such a discussion. I have found it is very hard to start. So far the only black person who has talked with me about all this is my male co-worker.
Hmm, will you be willing to listen back in turn.
2
Agree completely and have talked about this for years. If we actually admire Nelson Mandela and Bishop Tutu, we need to emulate their process for this first step in understanding and creating the basis for mutual respect.
1
Yeah baby!
Everything has to be on the table: policing, prison reform, education, health care, housing, crime, entitlements, voting rights.
Black people have been handed the short end of the stick for decades (not to mention not even having a stick at all until 1964...)
Until we do something to make this country safe and equal for all our citizens, we will continue to feel the shame of having an underclass that exists because of neglect - and by white design.
Neither is acceptable.
Everything has to be on the table: policing, prison reform, education, health care, housing, crime, entitlements, voting rights.
Black people have been handed the short end of the stick for decades (not to mention not even having a stick at all until 1964...)
Until we do something to make this country safe and equal for all our citizens, we will continue to feel the shame of having an underclass that exists because of neglect - and by white design.
Neither is acceptable.
23
I am an Active Duty US Army officer, have served my country 7 times in combat, am a Medical Professional, have served 19 years in the military, and have multiple Post Graduate degrees. On all accounts I should not, in any circumstances be scared of police officers.
I am also a 37 year old, 6'2'', 200 lb black male, who was born in the Bronx and still wears a Yankee cap every now and again. I have been pulled over many times in my BMW X5, and told, "Just making sure you didn't steal it."
It's my unfortunate conclusion that the delusion will never cease. Just as we profiled “military aged males” in Iraq and Afghanistan for 15 years, we learned most of our profiling techniques right at home.
I am also a 37 year old, 6'2'', 200 lb black male, who was born in the Bronx and still wears a Yankee cap every now and again. I have been pulled over many times in my BMW X5, and told, "Just making sure you didn't steal it."
It's my unfortunate conclusion that the delusion will never cease. Just as we profiled “military aged males” in Iraq and Afghanistan for 15 years, we learned most of our profiling techniques right at home.
722
it doesn't help matter that US police, in big cities like NY and Chicago, are learnng how to treat Americans the way that the Israeli 'Defense' Forces treat Palestinians in Hebron:
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/07/11/chicago-police-adopt-israeli-tacti...
Not that the Times is going to talk much about that...
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/07/11/chicago-police-adopt-israeli-tacti...
Not that the Times is going to talk much about that...
I respect what you have done. I don't respect the police who pull you over when they can just run the plate to see if your car has been reported stolen. That is just harassment.
I've told black friends of mine If I were black I'd put a camera in the dome light that would show the whole interior of the car when turned on hooked to a recorder. Then when they get stopped turn it on just in case the police do a search and plant something.
I'm white and I think it is that bad.
I've told black friends of mine If I were black I'd put a camera in the dome light that would show the whole interior of the car when turned on hooked to a recorder. Then when they get stopped turn it on just in case the police do a search and plant something.
I'm white and I think it is that bad.
1
I think it's a paradoxical problem that the more vehemently racism is exposed through relentless media focus through video, articles, statistics, the more all of us - unconsciously or consciously - cement further racist beliefs. I can make an effort to remember the facts - that the majority of blacks are intelligent, capable, successful, non-criminals - but the way advertising works is through repetition. We keep hearing of the poverty, lack of education, crime, guns, slums, addiction, lost people. I work very hard to keep it all in perspective. How about a column on the wealthy black enclaves, such as the one on Cape Cod where President Obama vacations? Give us some hope!
8
The only delusion by white people come from those that believe there is a systemic problem of racism in law enforcement. There is none and the more research that comes out supports that fact. In actuality, police departments have done an excellent job when dealing with crime in the black community. The rate of blacks vs whites shot by police officers are equal despite the fact that police officers are five times more likely to come across a violent offender in the black community. This fact alone is worth praising the excellent work done by law enforcement. As for research suggesting that blacks are disproportionately roughed up (put to the ground, pushed up against the wall, have a gun pointed at them, etc)... you can chalk that up to police having to deal with a much more aggressive, criminal and dangerous demographic. You can walk into the roughest white neighborhood and feel 10 times safer as a police officer than walking into a rough black neighborhood. That fact explains why there is a reasonable difference in response to investigating and confronting potential criminal activity. Also, especially for whites, the act of supporting Black Lives Matter is nonsensical. BLM's goal is to grab power, promote divisiveness in the communities and promote propaganda. They use false narratives (see Michael Brown case) to paint a picture of systemic racism when there is none. Add the numerous racists given airtime (mostly featured on MSNBC), you get white people believing in lies.
24
It is not "BLM's goal is to grab power, promote divisiveness in the communities and promote propaganda".
You spout that nonsense due to an inability to empathize with people who are harassed (and yes, shot) by a portion of the Police who are tasked with Upholding the Law.
Since you only see bias as coming from MSNBC, perhaps you should stick with your other normal channel: fox "news".
You spout that nonsense due to an inability to empathize with people who are harassed (and yes, shot) by a portion of the Police who are tasked with Upholding the Law.
Since you only see bias as coming from MSNBC, perhaps you should stick with your other normal channel: fox "news".
2
Michael, the best example of "white people believing in lies" is provided by your own comment.
2
Thank you. This is the elephant in the room.
I have facilitated ant-racism professional development workshops. Defensiveness is the universal reaction for whites having their first encounter with this issue. It is a slow process of unlearning that a couple of articles and a workshop won't fix. However, repeated exposure and measured conversation will eventually have an impact. Legislation, education and community engagement is the course of action. White liberals also need to have an honest accounting of their choices - especially in regards to our grossly imbalanced educational system - and take accountability and share in the solution.
I always recommend reading The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander. Anyone who continues to claim that systemic racism in the criminal justice system does not exist after reading this is simply a racist.
I always recommend reading The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander. Anyone who continues to claim that systemic racism in the criminal justice system does not exist after reading this is simply a racist.
182
Rudy Giuliani,are you listening?
When you attempt to implicate someone by virtue of superficial resemblance such as skin color to others who behaved badly in the past, you will discover justified defensiveness. And if you decide that anyone who disagrees with a particular book's take on the criminal justice system, a topic debated by criminologists from a variety of viewpoints, is a racist, then you demonstrate an extreme closed-mindedness that only harms the debate.
1
Perhaps the white defensiveness that you refer to is a legitimate counterargument to the case you present.
Worse yet are the accusations of racism simply because I dare question the accuracy of the accepted doctrine now prevailing.
We need to argue better.
Worse yet are the accusations of racism simply because I dare question the accuracy of the accepted doctrine now prevailing.
We need to argue better.
1
I share Kristof's view on this point. What he fails to cover (a related subject) is how the Republican party exploited this white resentment for votes. Known as the Southern Strategy, it played to and actually added to the racial resentments, slowing the process of change and improvement and healing. I think we are at another key transition point like the 60's, and time will tell whether we progress smoothly, or continue through a period of extreme partisan divide for an extended period of time. Tom Friedman's article yesterday addressed one possibility.
13
If you are seeking the truth, don't listen to what a person says, watch what they do. While maintaining that blacks have equal opportunities and education, the power structure has been turning the police into a paramilitary organization on a nationwide basis. They have equipped them lavishly with body armor, heavy weaponry, combat vehicles and special training. Let's not delude ourselves that this is to protect the population from "terrorists", it is to suppress any popular movement, such as Occupy Wall Street and Black Lives Matter. We have already seen it in action, and Cleveland is shaping up as another demonstration.
11
Another thing I have found is that there is a lack of teaching about black America post Civil Rights movement. It seems that, for whatever reason, textbooks and classrooms choose to show the end of the Civil Rights movement as a final accomplishment and not a stepping stone;
not talking about police abandonment of black communities in the late 60s that gave rise to the gangs (many of which were formed to protect their neighborhoods);
not talking about the discriminatory housing policies the federal government took part in that have caused our cities today to be as segregated as they were 50 years ago;
not talking about the war on drugs and how police, armed for war and trained for war, would often end up doing that which they were taught upon black communities;
not talking about how municipalities continue to raise income through unfair ticketing of the poor, and how being black increases the likelihood that you are the poor.
In such a situation, I have found that many white people that are hostile to things such as Black Lives Matter do so because they sincerely believe discrimination died in the 60s. Of course, given such beliefs, they wonder how we can have such grievances. The first step to a proper discourse is setting the record straight.
not talking about police abandonment of black communities in the late 60s that gave rise to the gangs (many of which were formed to protect their neighborhoods);
not talking about the discriminatory housing policies the federal government took part in that have caused our cities today to be as segregated as they were 50 years ago;
not talking about the war on drugs and how police, armed for war and trained for war, would often end up doing that which they were taught upon black communities;
not talking about how municipalities continue to raise income through unfair ticketing of the poor, and how being black increases the likelihood that you are the poor.
In such a situation, I have found that many white people that are hostile to things such as Black Lives Matter do so because they sincerely believe discrimination died in the 60s. Of course, given such beliefs, they wonder how we can have such grievances. The first step to a proper discourse is setting the record straight.
16
I would urge you, when talking about the school zoning and other geographic policies, to maintain a semblance of logic and understand these policies were directed at the poor, not at african americans. and while the end result may be the same, practical racism, this in no way implies theoretical racism, which is when people actively engage in it and what most people think of when the word 'racist' is used. We all know this; it's why it has become such a flashpoint. So many of the issues mentioned here are class issues, not race issues. In fact, generally speaking the latter grows from the former. Talking about race as if it is some overwhelming cataclysm is at best unhelpful and at worst actively distancing the two groups and thwarting any attempt at resolution
4
Racism is what the "powers that be" used (and continue to use) to separate the poor whites from the poor blacks and divide their collective interests to keep the poor in check.
Legislation, integration nor the media can force people to change their prejudices. President Obama's service to our country has reopened the debate over race relations that so many thought was over since we weren't talking about it - apparently not.
Perhaps one day President Obama's second chapter in the civil rights history will be an important part of his legacy, certainly his ability to rise above so much hatred will be etched in history forever. And maybe he will be remembered for giving a voice to those who stood in the shadows for so long silenced by intimidation.
Let's hope in time as we Americans evolves, we learn to accept each other for the substance of our hearts, not what color skin or religion we practice. (Signed a Southern white woman who has had the privilege of being stopped for illegal lane change, sassed the police officer and lived to tell about it.)
Perhaps one day President Obama's second chapter in the civil rights history will be an important part of his legacy, certainly his ability to rise above so much hatred will be etched in history forever. And maybe he will be remembered for giving a voice to those who stood in the shadows for so long silenced by intimidation.
Let's hope in time as we Americans evolves, we learn to accept each other for the substance of our hearts, not what color skin or religion we practice. (Signed a Southern white woman who has had the privilege of being stopped for illegal lane change, sassed the police officer and lived to tell about it.)
4
Me too.
Excellent article, Mr. Kristoff. While I never knew of these statistics, I have had the unique experience of growing up through most of the time periods mentioned in your article.
Growing up as a White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant (WASP) in Haiti as part of a relatively small community of expatriates with non-African roots (95 percent of Haiti's population are descendants of African slaves), I knew what it was like to live in a sort of reverse discrimination. We were treated like royalty for no other reason than the color of our skin. In our relations with the Haitian people, there was not the blatant and hidden racism I see so prevalent in America today.
I lived through the turbulent 1960s and attended an exclusive boarding school in Asheville, NC, where 99 percent of the students were white. Our only student of color was a girl from India.
It was deeply troubling for me to live through the era of segregation where Blacks were not allowed to use public restrooms, drink from public drinking fountains, or get a meal in a restaurant. I could not fathom that such prohibitions were legal in a country that has always called itself the "land of the free...." I guess that only referred to people whose skin was white.
Yes, the U.S. has come a long way since those days but we have a lot farther to go than most non-African Americans realize. This would be true for not only Blacks but also for Native Americans and immigrants of color.
Growing up as a White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant (WASP) in Haiti as part of a relatively small community of expatriates with non-African roots (95 percent of Haiti's population are descendants of African slaves), I knew what it was like to live in a sort of reverse discrimination. We were treated like royalty for no other reason than the color of our skin. In our relations with the Haitian people, there was not the blatant and hidden racism I see so prevalent in America today.
I lived through the turbulent 1960s and attended an exclusive boarding school in Asheville, NC, where 99 percent of the students were white. Our only student of color was a girl from India.
It was deeply troubling for me to live through the era of segregation where Blacks were not allowed to use public restrooms, drink from public drinking fountains, or get a meal in a restaurant. I could not fathom that such prohibitions were legal in a country that has always called itself the "land of the free...." I guess that only referred to people whose skin was white.
Yes, the U.S. has come a long way since those days but we have a lot farther to go than most non-African Americans realize. This would be true for not only Blacks but also for Native Americans and immigrants of color.
14
I am white and male. In my late teens (late 1970s), I was often out late drinking and bar hopping (illegally). I had a few encounters with the police. Usually in these situations I acted less than respectful and sometime even arrogant. I was never arrested and never harmed - even when I should have been arrested. At the time, my city was racially segregated - there was a black part of town and black folks were not common in any other part of the city.
In the decades since, I have made friends with many black men. Their experiences with police were very different than mine - they had been harassed by police and feared being hurt or worse.
My black men friends still share their experiences with me. There has been improvement. Yet, in America in 2016, black people are treated differently than white people. Not always. Not by everyone. Not in most situations. We still have much work to do.
In the decades since, I have made friends with many black men. Their experiences with police were very different than mine - they had been harassed by police and feared being hurt or worse.
My black men friends still share their experiences with me. There has been improvement. Yet, in America in 2016, black people are treated differently than white people. Not always. Not by everyone. Not in most situations. We still have much work to do.
412
The late 1970s were over 40 years ago. I have multiple college aged White friends that have been tazed, arrested or ticketed for alcohol related offenses such as being a "minor in possession". Some of our police, their militarized behavior, and overextending laws affect not just Blacks, but everyone.
2
In July of 1963, North Carolina State Police had a shoot out with local thugs, as the police were attempting to protect the children of Camp Summerlane. It was to be the first racially integrated summer camp, on edge of one of the state's most notorious "sundown towns". Locals stopped cars to make sure there were not black children heading up to the camp. They threw rocks at the kids, when they were canoeing on the French Broad river, through Rosman, NC. Eventually, the locals (a coordinated mob) lit the camp on fire, pouring gasoline on the lake. As a counselor tried to get the bus to the children, to evacuate them, the locals shot out the front window. The state police had to be called to escort the children to safety. No one in the town of Rosman was prosecuted. The participants are all grown up. Some of them are still alive. Some, it has been said, are in leadership positions in the county. The truth of that night in 1963 has been buried. If you ask locals, they'll tell you the campers were run out because the counselors were hippies, skinny dipping in the lake. They make no mention of their terrorist act. They make no mention that until 1987 there was a sign at the entrance to town saying "don't let the sun set on your black behind." They look the other way when a KKK flag appears on the side of the local highway. These are the roots of delusion. It's called hate and fear and bigotry. Shine a light, please. What we see today is the inheritance of that age.
10
Education is at the heart of this problem. Most suburban American school systems rank as highly as any in the world in terms of quality of education and student performance. What drags us down are urban school districts which trail in all measures. 100 years ago rural and suburban parents wanted to get their children into city systems because they were far superior to their backward school houses. But white flight to the suburbs in the 1960's and intellectual flight to private school have combined to leave city school children skewed demographically poorer and less white and so easier for the dominant culture and politicians to ignore. Problems ignored merely fester and now those chickens have come home to roost. We do not need more innovation - America already led the world. We need to work on the piece Europeans are largely getting right: equity. The sooner we make equity and access to a good education a fundamental right, the less acute our social, racial and educational problems will be. Imagine if like Finland your only choice was to attend a public school, but you could choose which public school? We would not be arguing about the proper measure of tax revenue to be allocated to public schools and there would not be a racial disparity in allocation of those educational resources.
2
"History hasn’t discredited the complaints of blacks but rather has shown that they were muted."
Most black people acknowledge the inequities and then go on with their lives instead of being mired in misery. And yes there is an element of delusion, mostly as a maladaptive coping mechanism, such as denial, but also as a way too accentuate the positive as a way to stay optimistic, both spiritually and physically. There's a very thin line between confidence and delusion, and maybe we prefer to think of ourselves as confident. Confident that we will prevail against all obstacles because we believe in ourselves.
Most black people acknowledge the inequities and then go on with their lives instead of being mired in misery. And yes there is an element of delusion, mostly as a maladaptive coping mechanism, such as denial, but also as a way too accentuate the positive as a way to stay optimistic, both spiritually and physically. There's a very thin line between confidence and delusion, and maybe we prefer to think of ourselves as confident. Confident that we will prevail against all obstacles because we believe in ourselves.
4
"In my mind, an even bigger civil rights outrage in America than abuses by some police officers may be an education system that routinely sends the neediest black students to underfunded, third-rate schools, while directing bountiful resources to affluent white schools."
This is the result of a system that regards schools as the responsibility of individual communities and not a national institution as in many other countries. Thus, wealthier communities have better schools. When this intersects with the problem that blacks live in separate, poorer neighborhoods, it creates the problem that Kristof is describing. But the fundamental problem here is education funding, not racism.
This is the result of a system that regards schools as the responsibility of individual communities and not a national institution as in many other countries. Thus, wealthier communities have better schools. When this intersects with the problem that blacks live in separate, poorer neighborhoods, it creates the problem that Kristof is describing. But the fundamental problem here is education funding, not racism.
2
I am confused. We get studies that tell us that black Americans are not more likely to die at the hands of police - why is this ignored? We have studies that show black kids are suspended more, and for different kinds of outrages in schools, than white kids.
We have studies that show black parents don’t read to their children as much as white parents; black single parents raise the majority of black children; black kids don’t study as hard; black families (save Caribbean) don’t stress education; black achievement is “acting white.” Black kids get worse grades. Black kids drop out more.
We have studies that show Asian kids value education; work harder; dedicate more time and energy to school. Are shot by police less than whites; have two parent homes; do fewer drugs.
We have outcomes that reflect this: magnet schools filled with Asians, with very few blacks; prisons filled with blacks, with far fewer Korean and Japanese Americans; Asian kids less often suspended.
We have nature / nurture debates about all or most of this.
Why are whites the source of these differences? Why is this the narrative? Mr. Kristoff is making some dangerous and unfounded assumptions. It is too simplistic, his analysis. It is not helpful.
We have studies that show black parents don’t read to their children as much as white parents; black single parents raise the majority of black children; black kids don’t study as hard; black families (save Caribbean) don’t stress education; black achievement is “acting white.” Black kids get worse grades. Black kids drop out more.
We have studies that show Asian kids value education; work harder; dedicate more time and energy to school. Are shot by police less than whites; have two parent homes; do fewer drugs.
We have outcomes that reflect this: magnet schools filled with Asians, with very few blacks; prisons filled with blacks, with far fewer Korean and Japanese Americans; Asian kids less often suspended.
We have nature / nurture debates about all or most of this.
Why are whites the source of these differences? Why is this the narrative? Mr. Kristoff is making some dangerous and unfounded assumptions. It is too simplistic, his analysis. It is not helpful.
12
Some of this is true, but it also ignores the systemic and historic differences between these minority communities (such as racial discrimination specifically against black people being very much legal until not that long ago). Blacks also get longer prison sentences (or are more likely to be arrested and imprisoned) for the exact same minor drug offenses than white people or Asian people
"Half of white Americans today say that discrimination against whites is as big a problem as discrimination against blacks." Racism in America may be an unconscious quality for some whites, but others "feel" discrimination because they are deprived of their traditional right to dominate and to treat blacks as inferiors.
The discrimination felt by the restrained oppressor is a Western phenomenon. It fuels nativism all over Europe and played a role in the Brexit. In Northern Ireland, we're in "the marching season." By tradition, the Orange Order (unionist/Protestant) organizes marches all over NI. Some marches were deliberately routed through nationalist/Catholic ghettoes, and there, the most blatant of sectarian tunes were played. Commonly, a nationalist would object forcefully, triggering the interference of the sectarian police. With the Good Friday agreement, some parade routes were altered to end the sectarian coat-trailing in nationalist areas. And lo, Orangemen were outraged at interference with their traditional rights.
You see, some of those parades ended at churches, and were therefore, religious exercises! And the UK government set up a Parades Commission to adjudicate complaints of harassment on one side and of curtailment of religious rights on the other. Does the KKK use that argument to justify burning of crosses?
A major part of the problem in America today is the overt feeling of white superiority.
The discrimination felt by the restrained oppressor is a Western phenomenon. It fuels nativism all over Europe and played a role in the Brexit. In Northern Ireland, we're in "the marching season." By tradition, the Orange Order (unionist/Protestant) organizes marches all over NI. Some marches were deliberately routed through nationalist/Catholic ghettoes, and there, the most blatant of sectarian tunes were played. Commonly, a nationalist would object forcefully, triggering the interference of the sectarian police. With the Good Friday agreement, some parade routes were altered to end the sectarian coat-trailing in nationalist areas. And lo, Orangemen were outraged at interference with their traditional rights.
You see, some of those parades ended at churches, and were therefore, religious exercises! And the UK government set up a Parades Commission to adjudicate complaints of harassment on one side and of curtailment of religious rights on the other. Does the KKK use that argument to justify burning of crosses?
A major part of the problem in America today is the overt feeling of white superiority.
6
White America isn't totally in denial about race. They look around and see that whoever occupies the bottom of the system has it pretty rough. Historically, blacks have been that last buffer between half a chance and the end of the line.
But this 'consciousness' about race is often suppressed. It's much easier to cling to beliefs about personal responsibility and individual opportunity than to look hard at what the politics of austerity plus systemic racism provide.
A real awareness about race raises the specter of what would happen if we really did practice equality? What would our schools, neighborhoods, jobs and justice system look like if blacks were really treated like whites. Or, what if whites were treated like blacks?
White America is suffering as evidence from Trump's appeal. But what would that suffering look like if their tenuous position bolstered by race was reduced to that of blacks? It's a prospect that has always invoked fear and fear has always suppressed this frightening picture of equality being a zero sum game.
But we need to understand this fear. We need white folk to talk honestly about why they support police repression. Why they vote to under fund black schools. Why they support harsh penalties for black drug use but compassion and treatment for white drug use. Unpacking this baggage won't be easy, but it's necessary. Our politicians have failed both races, let's not fail ourselves.
But this 'consciousness' about race is often suppressed. It's much easier to cling to beliefs about personal responsibility and individual opportunity than to look hard at what the politics of austerity plus systemic racism provide.
A real awareness about race raises the specter of what would happen if we really did practice equality? What would our schools, neighborhoods, jobs and justice system look like if blacks were really treated like whites. Or, what if whites were treated like blacks?
White America is suffering as evidence from Trump's appeal. But what would that suffering look like if their tenuous position bolstered by race was reduced to that of blacks? It's a prospect that has always invoked fear and fear has always suppressed this frightening picture of equality being a zero sum game.
But we need to understand this fear. We need white folk to talk honestly about why they support police repression. Why they vote to under fund black schools. Why they support harsh penalties for black drug use but compassion and treatment for white drug use. Unpacking this baggage won't be easy, but it's necessary. Our politicians have failed both races, let's not fail ourselves.
5
The parents of an NAACP worker "outed" her because she identified as black when in their view she was white. A cogent comment offered was she condemned for "Lying about the lie."
The normative was to "pass" as white; the NAACP worker reversed the norm and her parents outed her.
Race does not have a scientific deterministic test; religion does not have a scientific deterministic test. Race is a social construct and at present is embedded in the dark arts of U.S policy.
Ross Douthat recently depicted the elements of reactionary thought in terms of the intractable nature of tribe and culture among others. The desire to win, coupled with "at all costs," is suspect.
In another context, ask a Native American about the Dawes Act of 1887 and what social policy did it serve. I grew up within the boundary of the Fond du Lac Reservation established under the LaPointe Treaty of 1854. The Chippewa Nation was under threat of removal under the 1830 Indian Removal Act, which meant removal west of the Mississippi. The Chippewa Nation agreed to cede North Eastern Minnesota and bands within it reserved reservations.
I was always puzzled as to how my great grandparents received 160 acres under the 1862 Homestead Act within the boundary of a Native American reservation established under a treaty with the US Government. I submit it is a hard solve and if you are successful any white delusion goes away.
The normative was to "pass" as white; the NAACP worker reversed the norm and her parents outed her.
Race does not have a scientific deterministic test; religion does not have a scientific deterministic test. Race is a social construct and at present is embedded in the dark arts of U.S policy.
Ross Douthat recently depicted the elements of reactionary thought in terms of the intractable nature of tribe and culture among others. The desire to win, coupled with "at all costs," is suspect.
In another context, ask a Native American about the Dawes Act of 1887 and what social policy did it serve. I grew up within the boundary of the Fond du Lac Reservation established under the LaPointe Treaty of 1854. The Chippewa Nation was under threat of removal under the 1830 Indian Removal Act, which meant removal west of the Mississippi. The Chippewa Nation agreed to cede North Eastern Minnesota and bands within it reserved reservations.
I was always puzzled as to how my great grandparents received 160 acres under the 1862 Homestead Act within the boundary of a Native American reservation established under a treaty with the US Government. I submit it is a hard solve and if you are successful any white delusion goes away.
2
If the author thinks that Head Start is the answer to the failure of public schools in inner cities, then he is living in a world of delusion too.
Inner city schools are failing despite receiving per student funding that is higher than anywhere in the world. The greatest obstacle to reform is the NEA, the national teacher's union that is a wing of the Democrat Party. The worst public schools need to be closed and the students sent to the charter, parochial, or private school of their choice.
School choice is the only force that will change the cycle of failure in urban public school systems. The NEA fights school choice with every fiber of its being.
Instead of leveling racist charges of "white delusion", he could focus some attention on this fact.
Inner city schools are failing despite receiving per student funding that is higher than anywhere in the world. The greatest obstacle to reform is the NEA, the national teacher's union that is a wing of the Democrat Party. The worst public schools need to be closed and the students sent to the charter, parochial, or private school of their choice.
School choice is the only force that will change the cycle of failure in urban public school systems. The NEA fights school choice with every fiber of its being.
Instead of leveling racist charges of "white delusion", he could focus some attention on this fact.
6
Do you really think the parochial and charter schools would be willing (or able) to accept the vast number of students that would come out of the public school system (where would all the kids fit)? Not to mention, what happens if some of those charter schools fail (as they frequently do) or close for financial reasons (which has also happened). Don't forget that many kids in poor areas would not have the means to travel wherever those schools are. How exactly would they afford private schools?
Private schools, charter schools, and parochial schools are fine, but a much better funded public school system is really the foundation needed (which also means using public money to support all public schools and not just funneling it into the local schools, which leads to rich communities having great public schools and poor ones not having them)
Private schools, charter schools, and parochial schools are fine, but a much better funded public school system is really the foundation needed (which also means using public money to support all public schools and not just funneling it into the local schools, which leads to rich communities having great public schools and poor ones not having them)
2
Right, let's blame the teachers.
1
Not the teachers. The teachers union. You seem to think they are the same thing.
There are many teachers in charter, parochial, and private schools too. The public schools would have better teachers if they were rewarded and promoted based on ability and achievement rather than seniority.
There are many teachers in charter, parochial, and private schools too. The public schools would have better teachers if they were rewarded and promoted based on ability and achievement rather than seniority.
The media and the ineffectual balancers pleading for peace and love from both "sides" have reduced cops and African-Americans to two competing gangs of thugs in a turf war.
Sane citizens of all colors respect the police and expect them to do their jobs--protect us and get the bad guys. There are no "sides" to be on--we've agreed to give the police guns and a monopoly of force in return for protection.
That so many African-Americans and people of color fear their protectors is a perception that only their protectors can change. They are civil servants and professionals and need to "own" this and fix it.
When civil servants at the DMV, and the U.S. Post Office or the VA treat their customers like enemies, we don't plead for understanding from both sides--
we demand immediate change from these institutions.
If my smoke alarm goes off because I burnt some toast and the Fire Department responds by smashing down my front door and floods my house with water and destroys it--they aren't doing their jobs. If this were a regular occurrence, those responsible for training and leading fire-fighters would be charged with negligence and dereliction of duty.
It's no different for the police.
Sane citizens of all colors respect the police and expect them to do their jobs--protect us and get the bad guys. There are no "sides" to be on--we've agreed to give the police guns and a monopoly of force in return for protection.
That so many African-Americans and people of color fear their protectors is a perception that only their protectors can change. They are civil servants and professionals and need to "own" this and fix it.
When civil servants at the DMV, and the U.S. Post Office or the VA treat their customers like enemies, we don't plead for understanding from both sides--
we demand immediate change from these institutions.
If my smoke alarm goes off because I burnt some toast and the Fire Department responds by smashing down my front door and floods my house with water and destroys it--they aren't doing their jobs. If this were a regular occurrence, those responsible for training and leading fire-fighters would be charged with negligence and dereliction of duty.
It's no different for the police.
7
When a child is taught fear, it's the target of the fear that is supposed to fix it? I say no.
Education allows even the unemployed to live interesting and productive lives. I tell my students, after graduation, may not have a lot of money or even a job, but at least you will understand why.
Employment, poverty and wealth cut into a person's most important obligation to life: day dreaming.
Civil rights has been reduced to consumers' rights. The right to pursue the opportunities to be as productive as you can be is no longer in style in the US. The police don't create the poor and disadvantaged class. It's one thing to create economic poverty through economic policy, but it's another, more evil plan, to get people to agree to be uneducated about it.
Employment, poverty and wealth cut into a person's most important obligation to life: day dreaming.
Civil rights has been reduced to consumers' rights. The right to pursue the opportunities to be as productive as you can be is no longer in style in the US. The police don't create the poor and disadvantaged class. It's one thing to create economic poverty through economic policy, but it's another, more evil plan, to get people to agree to be uneducated about it.
5
"A starting point is for us whites to wake from our ongoing mass delusions, to recognize that in practice black lives have not mattered as much as white lives, and that this is an affront to values that we all profess to believe in." As a white man I submit that the only way this can happen in practice is if white America begins to move toward the concept of reparations, not just because we want to give money to black Americans and then forget about what we have done, but instead the money should represent part of a larger effort to honestly acknowledge the history of race relations in this country.
We white Americans need to stop looking away and pretending things that happened in this country did not happen. We need to dispel the myths by exploring and exposing all the ugliness of slavery and Jim Crow. We need to sincerely examine the realities of our history and, ultimately, accept the truth. Most importantly, once the truth is acknowledged, white America needs to apologize and, yes, pay. We pay because that is a manifestation of our acceptance of a long overdue debt.
Only then, once we have accepted the truth of our shared history and apologized for it, can those that have been so hurt by the actions the dominant culture begin to feel as if they are fully accepted members of this society. To find true equality will take time, but it can never begin while white Americans insists upon simply "white-washing" its historic treatment of black Americans.
We white Americans need to stop looking away and pretending things that happened in this country did not happen. We need to dispel the myths by exploring and exposing all the ugliness of slavery and Jim Crow. We need to sincerely examine the realities of our history and, ultimately, accept the truth. Most importantly, once the truth is acknowledged, white America needs to apologize and, yes, pay. We pay because that is a manifestation of our acceptance of a long overdue debt.
Only then, once we have accepted the truth of our shared history and apologized for it, can those that have been so hurt by the actions the dominant culture begin to feel as if they are fully accepted members of this society. To find true equality will take time, but it can never begin while white Americans insists upon simply "white-washing" its historic treatment of black Americans.
6
How are we going to pay and what amount and who is responsible? Are Italian-Americans, whose ancestors came to this country largely after the civil war responsible for paying ? Are poor whites whose ancestors never held slaves supposed to fork over their meager income? How far does this go back? Do we pay Latinos and Asians too? At what point are people not responsible for things their ancestors did? As a poor white person born in 1984, I think this is utter nonsense. I won't apologize for things I didn't do, and if anyone expects me to pay for something I didn't do, well, you can try but you can't get blood out of a turnip.
Thank you for the response. And I understand your concerns. However, the point is to begin an honest assessment of the history of race relations in America. There has never been an acknowledgment in this country of the horrors of slavery, or the ugliness of the 100 years following the civil war, along the lines of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that was formed in S. Africa after the end of Apartheid. One simply does not wake up one morning and say all that is over and done, I didn't do anything, and it's time to move on. I submit that what we are suffering today is a direct outgrowth of this failure to acknowledge, and take responsibility for, our nation's history. Only by doing so now can we begin to heal for 500 years of deplorable conduct.
And you are right, maybe you did not do anything to cause this. I was born in the 50's. My grandparents came from Europe, so they did not participate in slavery, and we were also poor. However, I was born white. That put me in an entirely different place than a black child born at the same time, and I have taken advantage of that. Not with a nefarious purpose, it is just the way things work.
It will be difficult to decide how much to give and who to give it to. But those are details. If we can afford to spend several billion dollars on wars in the middle east, we can do this. We just need the will to do so.
And you are right, maybe you did not do anything to cause this. I was born in the 50's. My grandparents came from Europe, so they did not participate in slavery, and we were also poor. However, I was born white. That put me in an entirely different place than a black child born at the same time, and I have taken advantage of that. Not with a nefarious purpose, it is just the way things work.
It will be difficult to decide how much to give and who to give it to. But those are details. If we can afford to spend several billion dollars on wars in the middle east, we can do this. We just need the will to do so.
1
I have read this column and comments with great interest and feel compelled to respond as well. I find it interesting how the discussion of racism always devolves into one about disparate economic opportunities between blacks and whites. Those who seek to pigeonhole blacks into a monolith of "poor underclass" Americans are the real racists because they are making a false connection between race and what is considered success. Let's uncouple the discussion of race from the economy and have a real discussion about values and what it means to be a decent, law-abiding citizen regardless of your race. Money is not the solution to every problem. Whatever happened to teaching our children that things like moral character, honesty, hard work, patriotism, and faith in God are all noble aspirations. All of us will not be rich, but we can teach our children to become good people. The problems we have in this country have very little to do with the lack of economic opportunity, and much more to do with a problem of the heart. Perpetuation the myth of the virtuous victimized poor and the evil conspiring rich is also not the answer. The answer is a change of heart towards a cultivation of good character and high moral values. In doing so, we raise up a generation of good and decent people who will have the courage it will take to break the further divides. This is exactly what MLK was saying if we would all stop shouting and finger pointing long enough to listen.
4
I love the people who say money isn't the solution. Try living without it.
1
Faith in what god?
what can a reader reply to this essay that isn't hackneyed, cliche, self righteous, holier than thou drivel. Of course we need to do all those things Kristof mentions but we have had the chance and we haven"t done it nearly well enough.
Government policy gives with one hand and takes away with the other so we see money wasted and don't look any further. It was and is policy that has caused the cycle of poverty in inner cities. Many of those caught in it are black leaving the impression that the problem is somehow a character deficit of those people.
A good policy overhaul is a ways away but demanding one is important. Meanwhile, we need balance in the stories we hear because there are a lot of good people in poor circumstances and good programs and positive outcomes. Maybe if we heard more about those stories, we would see individuals and not statistics and masses.
Government policy gives with one hand and takes away with the other so we see money wasted and don't look any further. It was and is policy that has caused the cycle of poverty in inner cities. Many of those caught in it are black leaving the impression that the problem is somehow a character deficit of those people.
A good policy overhaul is a ways away but demanding one is important. Meanwhile, we need balance in the stories we hear because there are a lot of good people in poor circumstances and good programs and positive outcomes. Maybe if we heard more about those stories, we would see individuals and not statistics and masses.
2
As many of the comments here (or the story of Dr Williams) show is that "positive outcomes" have not prevented people from blatantly being discriminated against.
I have, as it happens, spent the last fifteen years or so teaching poor black children in a public school in South Los Angeles. If you go by our test scores for the non-magnet student population, the school at which I taught was indeed "third rate". However, the District - which includes "affluent white schools" in neighborhoods like West Hollywood and Pacific Palisades, directs a lot of money towards poor black schools.
So what makes my former school "third rate"? The students themselves, most of whom come from chaotic lives caused by their poverty, exacerbated by circumstances that are prevalent in the poor black community, most notably an epidemic level of absentee fathers. I had a minimum of fifteen black students who absolutely needed to be in some form of special ed class because they couldn't function in general education, but there they were, pretty much every day, keeping other children from learning.
Any honest discussion of this issue needs to revisit the paper written by Senator Moynihan all the way back in 1968 about the black community in general and the disintegration of the black family in particular. Black lives do matter - absolutely - and all of us, white and black, need to go beyond protesting and act as if they do.
So what makes my former school "third rate"? The students themselves, most of whom come from chaotic lives caused by their poverty, exacerbated by circumstances that are prevalent in the poor black community, most notably an epidemic level of absentee fathers. I had a minimum of fifteen black students who absolutely needed to be in some form of special ed class because they couldn't function in general education, but there they were, pretty much every day, keeping other children from learning.
Any honest discussion of this issue needs to revisit the paper written by Senator Moynihan all the way back in 1968 about the black community in general and the disintegration of the black family in particular. Black lives do matter - absolutely - and all of us, white and black, need to go beyond protesting and act as if they do.
47
I'm a teacher as wel in urban NYC (Harlem) and I see the same exact things as you describe. There is a cultural denial in the black community that these problems exist (called "airing our dirty laundry"-the wanted to lynch Bill Cosby when he did this btw) and they are always on the offensive-attacking whites-instead of honestly talking about this problem. When was the last time you ever heard Al Sharpton talk about the "problem of absentee fathers and criminality" in the black community? He refuses to talk about. Why? He might lose his political support among fellow blacks? Bingo!
5
Hi, Ed -
I've never heard Sharpton - or Jesse Jackson, for that matter - discuss the problem of absentee fathers in the black community. Nor have I heard an honest discussion of why so many poor black kids come to school with the latest smartphone and $200 shoes, but no school supplies. For me, one of the worst aspects of the Cosby case is that he lost the ability to preach the very necessary message he was preaching.
It's very frustrating to want to teach, and then to have to manage bad behavior. Good luck.
I've never heard Sharpton - or Jesse Jackson, for that matter - discuss the problem of absentee fathers in the black community. Nor have I heard an honest discussion of why so many poor black kids come to school with the latest smartphone and $200 shoes, but no school supplies. For me, one of the worst aspects of the Cosby case is that he lost the ability to preach the very necessary message he was preaching.
It's very frustrating to want to teach, and then to have to manage bad behavior. Good luck.
2
White people just don't get it. or
White people are delusional when it comes to racial progress. or
Whatever.
At this point, the columnists pontificating about racism are just noise and their lectures no longer are being heard outside of their echo chambers.
A starting point for us humans is not to wake up from some columnist's assertion of mass delusion.
A starting point for us humans is to acknowledge the many contributing factors to the problems of racism, poverty, violent crime, parentless children, chronic school absenteeism and drop out culture, police bullying, a changing jobs picture.
That means both black humans and white humans have to step up to the challenge. Until the dysfunctional cultural issues are addressed, lecturing whites that they have blood on their hands and they are guilty of racism by virtue of birth is just tiresome noise.
White people are delusional when it comes to racial progress. or
Whatever.
At this point, the columnists pontificating about racism are just noise and their lectures no longer are being heard outside of their echo chambers.
A starting point for us humans is not to wake up from some columnist's assertion of mass delusion.
A starting point for us humans is to acknowledge the many contributing factors to the problems of racism, poverty, violent crime, parentless children, chronic school absenteeism and drop out culture, police bullying, a changing jobs picture.
That means both black humans and white humans have to step up to the challenge. Until the dysfunctional cultural issues are addressed, lecturing whites that they have blood on their hands and they are guilty of racism by virtue of birth is just tiresome noise.
11
This article was meant for you too!
My grandparents arrived from Europe in the early 20th century fleeing antisemitism and violence in eastern Europe. Speaking no English they settled in the lower east side of New York living in deplorable conditions facing prejudice everywhere. They worked twelve hours a day for low wages in dangerous factories. They and their neighbors did not abuse and commit crimes against each other. The fathers stayed with the families. They forced their children to study and created an exceptionally successful next generation.They did not blame others for their situation. There is no doubt that blacks are discriminated against to some extent. Although not politically correct to say they do commit crimes at a rate well above their portion of the population. This logically leads to more unpleasant interaction between and innocent black people which is definitely a problem that needs to be addressed. How did Dr. Williams and someone like Ben Carson get where they are in the first place. They studied their rear end off and achieved something. No doubt that there is discrimination but the black community must take some personal responsibility for their situation
29
Harry,
your ancestors didn't come over as slaves....as property.... they chose their own locations, spouses, paths. Like my potato-famine Irish ancestors, they could integrate quickly, generation or two, move up the ladder. They weren't restricted to poor neighborhoods or schools for long. They didn't have to be exceptional to attain ordinary, safe lives filled with opportunity.
your ancestors didn't come over as slaves....as property.... they chose their own locations, spouses, paths. Like my potato-famine Irish ancestors, they could integrate quickly, generation or two, move up the ladder. They weren't restricted to poor neighborhoods or schools for long. They didn't have to be exceptional to attain ordinary, safe lives filled with opportunity.
17
Harry you are sadly very clueless here. I am African-American and I'm also a Jew. From your comment regarding antisemitism, I assume that your family was/is also Jewish. The experience of Jews in this country were VASTLY different from that of Blacks. I have many close friends who left Europe as refugees during and after WWII. They utilized a very strong network of family and friends to help sponsor and help each other and offer support. Do you realize that for generations, Black Americans had their families systematically broken down and destroyed? On top of that, we were barred from professions, education, and real estate. Jews in America always had entrepreneurship to turn to when they were shut out of these things. However they had to use their internal resources of capital and education in order to achieve this. Blacks did not have this. To think that the experience between the two groups was comparable is a delusion in and of itself...
1
Working hard for low wages does not equate with being kidnapped and sold as property or working hard for NO WAGES and being treated as cattle. There is no comparison of the two experiences and therefore, no comparison of the experiences of the descendants of those who suffered through those experiences.
1
For too long we've been content to have police be bullies or thugs -- albeit our bullies protecting us respectable good folks from them scary bad folks.
It just takes getting pulled over once to know where you stand. If you're Asian, you get enraging racial taunts, clumsy intimidation, juvenile threats because all Asians are fearful, weak and passive. I learned expired tags means losing my license, my job, and my car, jail time, even my citizenship. Asians like me are born liars and cheaters so he'll drive by my house to check if my tags are on.
In a democracy that enshrines equality the most direct and personal experience of public authority for most of us will be cop. Abstract political ideals morph into the reality we face with every police encounter. The badge, gun, military uniform and squad car (with an upright shotgun visible through the windshield in SF) signal the raw, absolute power, sanctioned by all of us and entrusted to police. How they execute that trust affects the quality of our freedom and is the measures of our rights.
So are police up to the task? Do they get the essential nature of their role as the hall monitors of civil society or do they see themselves as the sharp tip of the spear that compels conformity and menaces all who don't or refuse.
I'm 65, retired, never been arrested. Not even a traffic ticket in 50 years. But if there's a cherry top in my rear view mirror, I feel a sharp edge of dread. There's no delusion.
It just takes getting pulled over once to know where you stand. If you're Asian, you get enraging racial taunts, clumsy intimidation, juvenile threats because all Asians are fearful, weak and passive. I learned expired tags means losing my license, my job, and my car, jail time, even my citizenship. Asians like me are born liars and cheaters so he'll drive by my house to check if my tags are on.
In a democracy that enshrines equality the most direct and personal experience of public authority for most of us will be cop. Abstract political ideals morph into the reality we face with every police encounter. The badge, gun, military uniform and squad car (with an upright shotgun visible through the windshield in SF) signal the raw, absolute power, sanctioned by all of us and entrusted to police. How they execute that trust affects the quality of our freedom and is the measures of our rights.
So are police up to the task? Do they get the essential nature of their role as the hall monitors of civil society or do they see themselves as the sharp tip of the spear that compels conformity and menaces all who don't or refuse.
I'm 65, retired, never been arrested. Not even a traffic ticket in 50 years. But if there's a cherry top in my rear view mirror, I feel a sharp edge of dread. There's no delusion.
24
To those of us that are people of color, the reality of inequality is inescapable. This is primarily poignant when we examine human settlement throughout metropolitan areas and the rigid segregation that has characterized our cities and suburbs alike. Property, among the greatest indicator of wealth, has been by and large denied to people of color throughout our history. Similarly, those of us who may have had the exceptional economic means, have been barred from livable neighborhoods as a result of both policies that were decided by real people, and the antagonizing acts that White community residents themselves engaged in. This indignity alone has come to inform the socioeconomic standing of so many who were not White, and therefore were not provided the "American Dream" in the form of a largely subsidized home in the suburbs. Today, people of color must learn to navigate these segregated spaces as their presence, by sole virtue of their darker pigmentation, renders them a potential perpetrator or social deviant. More importantly, we're reminded of the opportunities and the prosperity that we all could have enjoyed in this country together.
Among the greatest privileges of Whites, is that which grants them the convenience of remaining so oblivious to what has been a historical and ongoing social injustice in this country.
Among the greatest privileges of Whites, is that which grants them the convenience of remaining so oblivious to what has been a historical and ongoing social injustice in this country.
291
Yes. Back in May, a neighbor of mine in Southlake walked her elementary age child to school. When she got home, she realized that she had forgotten her key and went in through the back yard. A neighbor saw her, called the cops, and she was interrogated in her own home, with pictures on the wall, frig, etc. No apology from the cops, just an admonition to get to know her neighbors. She replied that she had tried, but had made very few friends in the several years that the family had lived there.
4
Treat people equally and with respect and you will get it . Your attitude is hostile to all white people not the few who may be ignorantly bigoted.
If you actually believed in America's founding principles of individualism you would know that no 2 people are the same- not matter what color their skin. The left's lumping everyone into identity groups destroys the potential of people as individuals, their independence and the unique potential that each person has to contribute to humanity. The left is specifically brainwashing blacks to feel they are second class citizens- which lowers their self-esteem. Your are not so don't buy that bull. Real history is that America was born in 1776. Congress abolished slavery in 1903- it actually was in effect after the Civil War 1863. The truth is the United States recognized slavery was wrong and acted to change it within 30 years of our founding and within 90 years it was abolished. There are countries in the middle east that stil have slaves and no one talks about them.
The false narrative that the U.S was for slavery for hundreds of years is propaganda. They are talking about all of North America well before the United States was founded.
If you actually believed in America's founding principles of individualism you would know that no 2 people are the same- not matter what color their skin. The left's lumping everyone into identity groups destroys the potential of people as individuals, their independence and the unique potential that each person has to contribute to humanity. The left is specifically brainwashing blacks to feel they are second class citizens- which lowers their self-esteem. Your are not so don't buy that bull. Real history is that America was born in 1776. Congress abolished slavery in 1903- it actually was in effect after the Civil War 1863. The truth is the United States recognized slavery was wrong and acted to change it within 30 years of our founding and within 90 years it was abolished. There are countries in the middle east that stil have slaves and no one talks about them.
The false narrative that the U.S was for slavery for hundreds of years is propaganda. They are talking about all of North America well before the United States was founded.
2
Because we are actually invisible.
1
The literally black/white dichotomy of the current debate makes little sense in my community, which is plurality "gray". Most of my neighbors are Chinese, Indian, middle eastern, Latino, and if pale-skinned then members of historically discriminated-against groups (such as Jews) or recent immigrants (Balkan or former Soviet Union), etc. The blend works here largely because all of these diverse segments of our community share similar socio-economics and prioritization of education for our kids.
8
Pretty much everything Kristof writes on this topic can be summed up in a single sentence: "Why can't whites understand that they are always wrong about race, and blacks are always right?"
I find it particularly galling the way Kristof implicitly denies the possibility that blacks might ever be deluded in a self serving way. The world is full of ethnic minorities that are smoldering with various resentments. Their grievances are often based on real historical injustices, yet many of the things these groups believe simply aren't true. But to Kristof it is simply inconceivable that American blacks might be subject to the same sort of resentment fueled delusions that are so common in the rest of the world.
I had a long conversation with an African immigrant from Ghana last week. She was appalled at the behavior of the African-American children her son goes to school with, and had a very low opinion of American blacks in general. I suppose Kristof would argue that she was somehow blinded by white racism, despite being black herself. Or maybe, just maybe, American blacks have problems that are not due to present day racism? Maybe, just maybe, they aren't always the most clear-headed and reliable judges of their own situation? Maybe, once in a while, when blacks cry racism, they are wrong?
I find it particularly galling the way Kristof implicitly denies the possibility that blacks might ever be deluded in a self serving way. The world is full of ethnic minorities that are smoldering with various resentments. Their grievances are often based on real historical injustices, yet many of the things these groups believe simply aren't true. But to Kristof it is simply inconceivable that American blacks might be subject to the same sort of resentment fueled delusions that are so common in the rest of the world.
I had a long conversation with an African immigrant from Ghana last week. She was appalled at the behavior of the African-American children her son goes to school with, and had a very low opinion of American blacks in general. I suppose Kristof would argue that she was somehow blinded by white racism, despite being black herself. Or maybe, just maybe, American blacks have problems that are not due to present day racism? Maybe, just maybe, they aren't always the most clear-headed and reliable judges of their own situation? Maybe, once in a while, when blacks cry racism, they are wrong?
109
@JohnB,
You just made an incredibly racist argument. You probably think you didn't, but that just supports the author's point.
1) There is no such thing as "race". That's a scientific fact.
2) If you think that people born in Africa who have dark skin and wide noses have something in common with people born in USA who look the same, you are a racist.
3) Black people who are born and live in the USA are an *ethnic subset* that is defined by how others perceive them, even to the extent of sometimes influencing their own self-perception.
Is it possible that
(a) in some individual situations Black people wrongly think that a White person's actions are colored by racism? Of course.
Is it also possible that (b) the White person is unconsciously giving signals to which Black people are sensitive? You bet.
So, what exactly is your point? How do you fix things when (b) as well as overt racism are endemic? How do you get rid of (a) in that situation?
You just made an incredibly racist argument. You probably think you didn't, but that just supports the author's point.
1) There is no such thing as "race". That's a scientific fact.
2) If you think that people born in Africa who have dark skin and wide noses have something in common with people born in USA who look the same, you are a racist.
3) Black people who are born and live in the USA are an *ethnic subset* that is defined by how others perceive them, even to the extent of sometimes influencing their own self-perception.
Is it possible that
(a) in some individual situations Black people wrongly think that a White person's actions are colored by racism? Of course.
Is it also possible that (b) the White person is unconsciously giving signals to which Black people are sensitive? You bet.
So, what exactly is your point? How do you fix things when (b) as well as overt racism are endemic? How do you get rid of (a) in that situation?
20
Thank you for proving his point. Despite dozens of statistics objectively demonstrating unequal access to education, unequal prosecution, unequal police enforcement, unequal housing access, unequal pay for same jobs, etc. etc. your response is "its the blacks fault." Yup, pretty much the definition of delusion.
How nice It must be to sit in a comfortable chair far away and point fingers at other people for their moral failings when the very chair you sit in is built by and supported by a system that pushes them down. That, in a nutshell, is the comfy chair of white privilege.
How nice It must be to sit in a comfortable chair far away and point fingers at other people for their moral failings when the very chair you sit in is built by and supported by a system that pushes them down. That, in a nutshell, is the comfy chair of white privilege.
6
This immigrant from Ghana thing is a silly example. I myself am a black immigrant, albeit from the Caribbean. What your black immigrant friend doesnt realize is her family or ancestors were never subject to slavery, never subject o Jim Crow, Segregation or institutionalized racism. She has a totally different history from African-Americans who have lived their lives for centuries as an oppressed minority. Her people have not been racially oppressed by a stronger majority consequently they behave differently. Just because she is black doesnt mean she knows what it is to be an oppressed racial minority. On top of that immigrants (especially those from far away) are not a representative group of the average members of their own backgrounds, by the very fact that they were even able to make all the way to the USA that means they are the most hard-working, ingenious and possibly elite of the people from their own countries. I assume you African immigrant friend was talking about "ghetto" african-americans, however she should know there are many ghetto European Americans too who behave just as badly (just as there are ghetto asians and people of all races). To say just African americans in general behave a certain way is too broad a generalization. There are many middle and upper class African-Americans, in fact African Americans as a whole are the richest black people in the world
2
Inequities in race have much to do with inequities in earning power. White men and African American men do not have equality in much in this country and it is especially true in earning power. The white Anglo Saxon Protestant male is still pretty much the top of the economic food chain as it always has been. Even with a college education, I sincerely doubt that the pay will be equal to their white counterparts. I don't care what anybody's statistics say, there is a class structure in this country. It may not be as bad as England's or say India, but there is no escaping it. A lot of young people in this country went for Bernie sanders much the way they went for Barack Obama. Because they are tire of the same ol same ol. That is also trumps appeal This country is being divided not being brought together. BLM did not spring up because they thought it was the fashionable thing to do. Most telling is the driving record of Philando Castile, 82 driving violations! 82 times being pulled over for this or that. What does that say about black men in this country. What does it say about the quality of those who are entrusted to serve and protect. Do what the armed forces did in the seventies and eighties. RAISE THEIR PAY and get a professional force that is happy with what they bring home. And happy with their jobs. And not tempted to shake down traffic pull overs or work basketball games just to make ends meet.
9
Here is a key component of the discussion "white Anglo Saxon Protestant" as used in this comment. The column compares the 1960s with 2016 and I offer that "white" in 1960 was Anglo Saxon Protestants and not Italians Spanish, Greeks, Irish, Polish, and other Eastern and Southern Europeans as well as the Near East and Far East Asian populations. U.S. Immigration laws defined who was acceptable and at what level of in migration. We may have forgotten or buried the notion that all peoples now glossed over as White were not and in many communities as not equal today. My 70 year old friend told me with a wink and a nod that her Catholic girls High School was integrated ...Irish and Italian.... Color of skin, Class and Religion may identify us but they need not Divide US.
1
"Most telling is the driving record of Philando Castile, 82 driving violations! 82 times being pulled over for this or that. What does that say about black men in this country"
It does suggest good things that's for sure.
To cops (when they run his licence plate) it says: "this person is potential trouble and a serial lawbreaker" (even if minor). They act accordingly and are exceedingly careful and yes-a little bit anxious for their own safety. They don't want to admit this. Cops never know what nasty stuff might happen when they pull over a vehicle. Frankly I am always respectful and admit something if I did something wrong. Most of the time guess what? They let me off with a warning....a lesson that most smart people know.
It does suggest good things that's for sure.
To cops (when they run his licence plate) it says: "this person is potential trouble and a serial lawbreaker" (even if minor). They act accordingly and are exceedingly careful and yes-a little bit anxious for their own safety. They don't want to admit this. Cops never know what nasty stuff might happen when they pull over a vehicle. Frankly I am always respectful and admit something if I did something wrong. Most of the time guess what? They let me off with a warning....a lesson that most smart people know.
1
White Delusion is a required course in U.S. Public schools, called "U.S. History." People are deluded not because they were taught the truth and chose not to believe it, but because they were never told the truth. Ignorance of the ugly truth, is, for white Americans at least, bliss. I grew up in an all-white town and never had reason to question whether all people were treated equally in the rest of the country. I was told they were.
59
History says that all people need not be treated equally.
Very good points. Case in point--the "new" history "text" that have been adopted in Texas.
2
Ronald Reagan seems, in retrospect, to have spoken for all America when he said, in debating Jimmy Carter, "I remember an America where we didn't know we had a race problem." I believe that's called "benign neglect."
22
Republican's went from an elephant to an ostrich
1
If you want to improve educational opportunities for poor children, not just black kids, take a look at teachers unions, and how difficult, if not impossible, it is to fire an incompetent teacher.
13
@ Craig Wofsy SO it's the fault of the teachers' unions & incompetent teachers? That's called finger pointing or passing the buck; not the path to dialogue, progress & solutions!
3
Craig Wofsey, teacher's unions don't make it impossible to fire bad teachers. I know a couple of teachers who were fired a couple of years ago. The school district only had to warn them that they were not performing satisfactorily, tell them what they should be doing differently, and then document their failure to improve. (Their students received a slightly above average level of free and reduced lunches, which is one way of identifying poor students.)
3
We need to support teachers, not just criticize them. Help unsatisfactory teachers to become better teachers. As it stands, very few young people want to go into teaching. We need to change this -- and constantly attacking teachers will not do it.
2
I do believe the average police officer is afraid of young, black men and this is the base cause of their harsh treatment. The rest of this, I believe, is based on money. Rich vs poor. I think poor white children also get sent to poor schools and poor white families also get substandard housing.
19
No, they are not afraid. They refuse to die in a confrontation for so little.
Is it surprising to know that cops tend to be suspicious and proactive around aggressive young men with a history of violence, lack of self control and poor decision making? That is the reality that liberals pretend doesn't exist.
1
"A starting point is for us whites to wake from our ongoing mass delusions, to recognize that in practice black lives have not mattered as much as white lives, and that this is an affront to values that we all profess to believe in."
Many of us do realize this and have been working - in various ways - towards this. But, unfortunately, those of us who are awake toil in our own bubble of like-minded people.
How does one reach the rest of the country?
I would argue that we start by electing politicians at all levels - local to national - that promote equality in education. housing, transportation, criminal justice. We need to take a page from the Koch handbook and start with local elections, working our way up.
Many of us do realize this and have been working - in various ways - towards this. But, unfortunately, those of us who are awake toil in our own bubble of like-minded people.
How does one reach the rest of the country?
I would argue that we start by electing politicians at all levels - local to national - that promote equality in education. housing, transportation, criminal justice. We need to take a page from the Koch handbook and start with local elections, working our way up.
9
Slowly. And Patiently. Such is how we address the racist problem in America. And this may be wise: How else to overcome the ingrained resistance caused by the horrid manner in which Africans were "introduced" to America? And we have -and continue to make- progress. Let's try this ..... Disarm the police. My image of the police officer growing up was a man with a hat, badge and -maybe- a billy club at his side. Now cops look like science fiction characters, complete with gun, mace, cuffs, etc. Police on patrol need a mandate to keep order, not to turn expired registration stickers into personal investigations and removing their pistol from its holster.
4
"disarm the police"
and leave them sitting ducks for gangsters and criminals of all sorts. OK, why don't you join the police force (or enlist your kids) under those rules and see how it turns out. Let us know. . .
and leave them sitting ducks for gangsters and criminals of all sorts. OK, why don't you join the police force (or enlist your kids) under those rules and see how it turns out. Let us know. . .
Racism is almost the exclusive domain of white people. Afraid that a level playing field would result in them being the losers in any, and perhaps all endeavours, they have created the black bogeyman, hence segregation and racism. I grew up in a predominantly Black country, it's judges, doctors, lawyers, engineers were predominantly black, no one thought that they couldn't be a doctor, judge or carpenter, one became what they aspired to be. In America, I see white people afraid of true competition. That explains what I call the 'Jackie Robinson syndrome'.....the fear of failure to black people. But I don't live in America, one if my sons do, and even though he's a doctor, he's still a black man, and everyday I brace myself for a phone call or email or text, saying harm has come to him at the hands of a racist cop. I emphasize harm at the hands of the Police, because the Police are suppose to 'serve and protect', fully aware that harm can come to him from other places.
Sadly, this is America. Even more sadly, this is America in the 21st century. What is the solution?, I don't know if white people are willing to employ it if they're told, but I'll say it nonetheless, 'Do unto others as you'd have others do to you'. A very simple but powerful antidote to all that plagues not just the white tribes of this world but all peoples in it.
Sadly, this is America. Even more sadly, this is America in the 21st century. What is the solution?, I don't know if white people are willing to employ it if they're told, but I'll say it nonetheless, 'Do unto others as you'd have others do to you'. A very simple but powerful antidote to all that plagues not just the white tribes of this world but all peoples in it.
16
(Not Mark) You are wrong. There are racists all over the world, from Asia to Europe to South America. They are all races and span the economic ladder. If all the whites are gone there will be someone else you will have to get rid of. Open your eyes.
In talking to other whites, I have found that those who have never been personally and directly exposed to prejudice or discrimination
cannot empathize with blacks, Mexicans, or other victims of hate. It seems that only first-hand experience works. Jews, recent immigrants who speak imperfect English, and other white minorities get it. But if you are a WASP, for example, you don't get it. If you have never been stopped by a cop, it takes a lot of imagination to understand black fears. Most whites do not get there and only see their issues like being on the short end of affirmative action. Hence their delusion. You can't learn what you never knew.
cannot empathize with blacks, Mexicans, or other victims of hate. It seems that only first-hand experience works. Jews, recent immigrants who speak imperfect English, and other white minorities get it. But if you are a WASP, for example, you don't get it. If you have never been stopped by a cop, it takes a lot of imagination to understand black fears. Most whites do not get there and only see their issues like being on the short end of affirmative action. Hence their delusion. You can't learn what you never knew.
20
My parents were Italian immigrants and although being born here, Italian was my first language. I learned English once I went to school so needless to say I had an accent well into my middle school years. The harassment and being made fun of by both other kids as well as adults was unreal. I was a straight A student and was prevented from entering an advanced course the following year because my sixth grade teacher thought I couldn't speak English well enough. This all occurred in the early 60's. My parents never uttered a negative word about minorities. I just can't imagine what it's like to be an African American male in this country. Whites just don't get it.
@Silas
”It seems that only first-hand experience works. Jews, recent immigrants who speak imperfect English, and other white minorities get it. But if you are a WASP, for example, you don’t get it."
There are two words that get confused: empathy and sympathy.
Sympathy is feeling compassion, sorrow, or pity for the hardships that another person encounters, while empathy is putting yourself in the shoes of another.
I can sympathize with a widow whose husband has committed suicide because MY husband committed suicide. I understand her anger, frustration, inability to be allowed to grieve--and I will carry it forever.
But at the same time a person who has never gone through what I did can certainly EMPATHIZE with me. These are people able to look outside their own experiences, walk in the shoes of another and make an effort to understand--that takes caring about others instead of only dealing with the world how it affects you only.
I don’t see a lot of empathy these days in comments made here in the NY Times and other social media. It’s easier to be cynical, look at things from ONLY your point of view. Most people who read Dickens can empathize with the horrific lives of the people in that century. Yet I know MANY who had to read Dickens and hated it in school because they didn’t see how it related to them!
Trump is a PERFECT example of lack of empathy--when Scotland roiled from #Brexit Trump said he would do well with depreciation of the pound!
Please. Try empathy.
”It seems that only first-hand experience works. Jews, recent immigrants who speak imperfect English, and other white minorities get it. But if you are a WASP, for example, you don’t get it."
There are two words that get confused: empathy and sympathy.
Sympathy is feeling compassion, sorrow, or pity for the hardships that another person encounters, while empathy is putting yourself in the shoes of another.
I can sympathize with a widow whose husband has committed suicide because MY husband committed suicide. I understand her anger, frustration, inability to be allowed to grieve--and I will carry it forever.
But at the same time a person who has never gone through what I did can certainly EMPATHIZE with me. These are people able to look outside their own experiences, walk in the shoes of another and make an effort to understand--that takes caring about others instead of only dealing with the world how it affects you only.
I don’t see a lot of empathy these days in comments made here in the NY Times and other social media. It’s easier to be cynical, look at things from ONLY your point of view. Most people who read Dickens can empathize with the horrific lives of the people in that century. Yet I know MANY who had to read Dickens and hated it in school because they didn’t see how it related to them!
Trump is a PERFECT example of lack of empathy--when Scotland roiled from #Brexit Trump said he would do well with depreciation of the pound!
Please. Try empathy.
3
Bluntly and well said!
4
There is no doubt that schools in Black communities are poorer. It is however, the liberals who insist on maintaining the public school status quo of forcing people to attend schools only in their neighborhood. We owe people an equal opportunity and school is the foundation for life choice.
7
Liberals were behind the movement to stop school busing? Really?
3
Chris, schools in black neighborhoods actually receive more funding per student than average. It's not a money issue, it's a social issue, and the value placed on a primary education.
1
My DirectTV repairman arrived promptly on June 27th to replace some things. We had an engaging conversation about his background and his love for the U.S.
He was raised in a small country next to Ghana and at 18 went to London for two years too live before coming here. He stated the U.S. gave him many more opportunities and he loves this country. He is a married father of 3, a home owner in Piscataway, and all of his family has followed him here.
He told me of DirectTV's offer that he turned down- move for 2 years to the MIddle East with your family, free housing and food but the pay is only $5.00/hour. He said several South American co-workers had taken the bait because they only made $1.00/hour back in their own countries, but he was staying put.
While I am sure he has encountered racism, this man said it is the greatest free country in the world where you can say what you want and reach goals if you follow the right paths.
I think systemic racism is a thread in the fabric of many lives, but it appears to me that many black immigrants have a push to succeed- perhaps we should explore how so many of them do it.
He was raised in a small country next to Ghana and at 18 went to London for two years too live before coming here. He stated the U.S. gave him many more opportunities and he loves this country. He is a married father of 3, a home owner in Piscataway, and all of his family has followed him here.
He told me of DirectTV's offer that he turned down- move for 2 years to the MIddle East with your family, free housing and food but the pay is only $5.00/hour. He said several South American co-workers had taken the bait because they only made $1.00/hour back in their own countries, but he was staying put.
While I am sure he has encountered racism, this man said it is the greatest free country in the world where you can say what you want and reach goals if you follow the right paths.
I think systemic racism is a thread in the fabric of many lives, but it appears to me that many black immigrants have a push to succeed- perhaps we should explore how so many of them do it.
20
That would be the 'immigrant state of mind'
The kind of attitude Amy Chua writes about in those Battle Hymn of The Tiger Mother books.
I think immigrants come expecting to be discriminated against, they carry a certain paranoia about what they're up against. So they always seem to want to prove something... This is particularly evident in their attitudes to raising children; "I didn't make it in life, so I must ensure my children have all the opportunities I couldnt have".
From my perspective the 'black americans' feel 'native' so there is hardly any need to strive extra hard to overcome obstacles such as prejudice which are obvious to immigrant blacks. Being 'native' and yet suffering perceived obstacles to advancement in your own country has got to be frustrating and debilitating to the extent that your lack of belief in the system becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
That's the individual side; there is however, no accounting for continuing systemic oppression of black folk except to say that their lack of economic and political power (lets call it the 'civil society score') plays a large role in the perceived inability to bootstrap their way out of social problems.
You could make a long list of slights and oppressions, but a little more lobby influence over their politicians would get those streets cleaner and those schools better, and those cops nicer...
The kind of attitude Amy Chua writes about in those Battle Hymn of The Tiger Mother books.
I think immigrants come expecting to be discriminated against, they carry a certain paranoia about what they're up against. So they always seem to want to prove something... This is particularly evident in their attitudes to raising children; "I didn't make it in life, so I must ensure my children have all the opportunities I couldnt have".
From my perspective the 'black americans' feel 'native' so there is hardly any need to strive extra hard to overcome obstacles such as prejudice which are obvious to immigrant blacks. Being 'native' and yet suffering perceived obstacles to advancement in your own country has got to be frustrating and debilitating to the extent that your lack of belief in the system becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
That's the individual side; there is however, no accounting for continuing systemic oppression of black folk except to say that their lack of economic and political power (lets call it the 'civil society score') plays a large role in the perceived inability to bootstrap their way out of social problems.
You could make a long list of slights and oppressions, but a little more lobby influence over their politicians would get those streets cleaner and those schools better, and those cops nicer...
Immigrants are a more hardy bunch. That's why we need more immigration and not less.
2
"...many black immigrants have a push to succeed..."
I sense the argument you are dancing around ("See? It can't be that bad") overlooks an important factor: the effect of enslavement and its emotional and social repercussions on multiple generations. Your protagonist from Ghana comes to our situation with a clean slate as far as that narrative goes—he can only expect good things, instead of always expecting the worst.
I sense the argument you are dancing around ("See? It can't be that bad") overlooks an important factor: the effect of enslavement and its emotional and social repercussions on multiple generations. Your protagonist from Ghana comes to our situation with a clean slate as far as that narrative goes—he can only expect good things, instead of always expecting the worst.
2
Mr Kristof, you're only half right in your analysis. While placing the blame for racism squarely on the backs of whites you failed to articulate the the idea that the black community needs to assume some responsibility for the slow progress they've made in racial, educational, social and economic equality. I recognize this is a complex problem but a first step should be the call by african american leaders for the need of the community to encourage and support the nuclear family, which is the foundation for social and economic progress. What chance do children have in breaking the cycle of poverty when they are raised by a poor working mom or a grandparent? What sort pressure of pressure does a split household place on city and state leaders to provide funding for adequate housing, well funded schools and job training education? I suspect very little since the daily challenge is to put food on the table. Until we reverse the trend of single parent households, a social disease which is starting to spread among whites, no amount of finger pointing will solve the problem of racial and economic equality.
22
When will White leaders preach to White folks that they need to find empathy for people that don't look like themselves, start truly integrating the nationnation's schools, turn off the oppressive 50 year old war on drugs, or dismissing institutional racism?
1
And what do you suggest, Mr privileged world traveler? How about affordable housing in your, and Hillary's neighborhoods? How about sending your kids to a public inner city school instead of a private, exclusionary one? How about supporting charter schools for minority kids? How about making all descendants of slave-owning families - and the scions of banking families who financed the deed - pay reparations? How about noting the greatest beneficiaries of the ills you enumerate are white, well-off liberals. Such as yourself, your editorial colleagues and your publisher. Not interested? Thought not
24
Music to my ears. The liberal establishment speaks one thing yet lives quite another.
So if a white person in a position of power talks about racial issues than you get sniping, finger-pointing, and criticisms from people like you that the position of power that gives them a voice is a benefit of a racist system. And if you say nothing, then you are blamed for being part of the problem and not speaking up.
This is the very definition of a double-bind and it appears to be on page 2 of the social justice activist playbook. The purpose of the strategy appears to be simply to knock the white person down a notch or two from their pedestal in some misguided attempt at social justice. And it fails and its toxic to the "activist" as well. Imagine what kind of life you will be living if your entire purpose is to not to empower black people but to dis-empower white people. Its very sad. And it's ineffective. Good luck with that. And no, we won't be complicit in our own badgering. Mr. Kristol, you keep on talking about race or any other issue you think is important using the benefits of your position of power and privilege. And I will do the same. We don't let some unsuccessful angry social justice activist tell me what we can and can't talk about.
This is the very definition of a double-bind and it appears to be on page 2 of the social justice activist playbook. The purpose of the strategy appears to be simply to knock the white person down a notch or two from their pedestal in some misguided attempt at social justice. And it fails and its toxic to the "activist" as well. Imagine what kind of life you will be living if your entire purpose is to not to empower black people but to dis-empower white people. Its very sad. And it's ineffective. Good luck with that. And no, we won't be complicit in our own badgering. Mr. Kristol, you keep on talking about race or any other issue you think is important using the benefits of your position of power and privilege. And I will do the same. We don't let some unsuccessful angry social justice activist tell me what we can and can't talk about.
I mostly agree with you, Thalia, but as a Chicago HS teacher I can't condone charter schools. We need to try to equalize the public system we have. Charters are public funds for private schools run by stupid, greedy corporations. Some states are trying ways to equalize their educ. funds among their children. I agree with Kristoff that free pre-school is where some funds should go. Where I agree is I want to go to a nice neighborhood that Mayor Emanuel just gave extra money to and say NO. Use the funds across the street at the school with space to be fixed up and mix the black and white kids in the 2 schools. Involve the teachers of both schools in uniting skin colors and abilities to match the reality in our hurting nation!
1
We can look to the law to require the Constitutional freedoms and protections available to all citizens be applied equally. We can take institutions to court, and force a consent decree that protects equal rights.
Changing people's perceptions and thoughts and prejudices is harder. And it is slow, a generational movement in which we find that more of our sons and daughters are better people than our generation. And it is two steps forward, one step back.
Education is the cornerstone: that liberal education so deplored by the bloviating punditry class of the right. That is the primary place in which our kids learn ideas and ideals which may not match our own. It doesn't always hurt to have them work summers in between - those retail and food service jobs are highly integrated. It is much harder to hate a person you actually talk to.
I don't hold out hope that people will change overnight, and that entrenched beliefs will somehow climb out of the trench. That our hearts will grow three sizes one day. But I do have hope for each succeeding generation. Their attitudes towards gays, as an example, has led to a sea change. Can't we have hope that they will be better than my generation on race as well?
Changing people's perceptions and thoughts and prejudices is harder. And it is slow, a generational movement in which we find that more of our sons and daughters are better people than our generation. And it is two steps forward, one step back.
Education is the cornerstone: that liberal education so deplored by the bloviating punditry class of the right. That is the primary place in which our kids learn ideas and ideals which may not match our own. It doesn't always hurt to have them work summers in between - those retail and food service jobs are highly integrated. It is much harder to hate a person you actually talk to.
I don't hold out hope that people will change overnight, and that entrenched beliefs will somehow climb out of the trench. That our hearts will grow three sizes one day. But I do have hope for each succeeding generation. Their attitudes towards gays, as an example, has led to a sea change. Can't we have hope that they will be better than my generation on race as well?
4
I saw a cartoon recently that perfectly sums up the black/white/blue situation in this country.
Three people are at a bus stop. A police car drives by. A white man and a white woman sit on a bench, chatting. A black man, standing in front of them, has raised both hands in the air!
Three people are at a bus stop. A police car drives by. A white man and a white woman sit on a bench, chatting. A black man, standing in front of them, has raised both hands in the air!
6
My home is a mixed one. One side you have blue blood; the other side you have blue collar. And they are divided by upward mobile professionals. The adjacent town is not as lucky. It used to be sturdy working class white; then it followed the well-treaded path of white flight half a century ago. While it has experienced a bit of a renaissance because of rising property values and a prosperous region, some scars remain.
So yes, you can tell race still matters. But this is the enclave of liberal NE, one could just imagine if you are in the deep South.
So yes, you can tell race still matters. But this is the enclave of liberal NE, one could just imagine if you are in the deep South.
4
Yes, race still matters speaking as a 73 year old white from GA now living in TX. We whites know the truth but use blinders, live in gated, privileged enclaves and delude ourselves. We make sure we are not outnumbered through the Jim Crow penal system of justice. If we were not afraid, why would we consider an ignorant, narcissistic, rich showman white man to lead this "democratic" nation.
3
Whites seem to have a zero sum attitude towards blacks in that any improvement in the lot of blacks can only occur as a subtraction from white people . That is one reason so many whites claim to be victims of racism. The other is that there are many stresses in American middle class life that infect both races equally. It only takes being human in America to incur them
45
If you ever experienced the downside of Affirmative Action programs, which overwhelmingly burdens Asian and White applicants for employment and education, I would guess you would have a different position on this.
2
It is a zero sum game. Resources spent on affluent Blacks ( time,money,affirmative action,etc.) are resources denied poor whites.
1
I find it interesting how many equate funding with outcomes from our educational system or use funding to support their argument. They also look at their local situation and think it applies elsewhere. The core issue is the quality of education received for the funding provided and from what I see in my local area, America hasn't even come close to providing an equal opportunity to an equal quality education for everyone. The differences between urban and suburban schools in the quality of facilities, staff and teachers regardless of funding is plain to see for all. Add to that the differences between the economic circumstances of the students and parental attitudes towards education and you have the results we see in action. The lesson is focusing on funding is a bean counters diversion.
15
America will never have racial justice until the focus is removed from the racial part and put on the justice part.
Justice is not blind. It's eyes are opened by money and closed tightly shut to people who are poor.
Everyone who enters the system should have access to competent legal help and a chance to make bail. Innocent people should not be threatened and intimidated into pleading guilty to crimes they did not commit.
Of course, were this to happen, the system would be overwhelmed. In order to fix that, America needs to end its ill-conceived drug war, which is nothing more nor less than a defacto war on the poor.
As for the schools, I hate to say it, but good schools do not happen without parental involvement. No amount of money or social engineering will fix the problem.
Back in the 1960's, I went to a brand new suburban high school, graduating with the first class. It was big, beautiful and air conditioned when I got there, and looked the same when I left three years later.
I went back just two years later to obtain a copy of my school records and the place looked like a war zone, broken windows, broken doors, dirt, trash, graffiti, etc.
What happened, I asked?
The school counselor just looked at me and shrugged and shook her head.
School busing is what had happened, I found out later.
You can take the child out of the ghetto but you better take the ghetto out of the child, first, or you're wasting your time.
How do you do that?
Good question.
Charity begins at home...
Justice is not blind. It's eyes are opened by money and closed tightly shut to people who are poor.
Everyone who enters the system should have access to competent legal help and a chance to make bail. Innocent people should not be threatened and intimidated into pleading guilty to crimes they did not commit.
Of course, were this to happen, the system would be overwhelmed. In order to fix that, America needs to end its ill-conceived drug war, which is nothing more nor less than a defacto war on the poor.
As for the schools, I hate to say it, but good schools do not happen without parental involvement. No amount of money or social engineering will fix the problem.
Back in the 1960's, I went to a brand new suburban high school, graduating with the first class. It was big, beautiful and air conditioned when I got there, and looked the same when I left three years later.
I went back just two years later to obtain a copy of my school records and the place looked like a war zone, broken windows, broken doors, dirt, trash, graffiti, etc.
What happened, I asked?
The school counselor just looked at me and shrugged and shook her head.
School busing is what had happened, I found out later.
You can take the child out of the ghetto but you better take the ghetto out of the child, first, or you're wasting your time.
How do you do that?
Good question.
Charity begins at home...
42
Wow, that is one weak, racist statement. And so, ladies and gentlemen, that is why we will never get very far in the conversation.
11
I think your analysis needs to go much deeper. For starters, you seem to believe that busing was the only cause of your school's decline: bring in unwanted people of color and there goes the neighborhood despite the best efforts of the beleaguered whites. But look behind that simplistic meme and what you probably would find is that white flight was the cause. They probably pulled their kids out of the school the second they heard that blacks were coming. What would have happened in the school if the whites stayed and didn't give in to their bigotry? The AC would have still worked, the floors would still be shiny and everyone would have gotten a good education. Don't blame the minorities, blame the whites for being bigots and abandoning their school.
89
You cite the criminal justice system. A good place for Americans to understand racial profiling is by reading The New Jim Crow, by Michele Alexander. When I heard Senator Rand Paul quote statistics from this book I had to read it for myself. It's all there, scientific documentation of racial bias in the criminal justice system. If that isn't institutional racism then I don't know what institutional racism is.
6
I am white middle aged and a woman and I am afraid of policeman. My experience with them even when giving me a traffic ticket is that they are thugs. When I've been robbed, they are useless. They can't even get the report right when I needed it for an insurance claim. I can't imagine how stressful and black persons encounter must be. I have never felt protected by them.
241
you live in Texas.
3
Really? These are the first people you call to protect you if someone breaks into your house, if there is a confrontation with a thug, if your life is in danger. Any sane person would not call someone for help if they truly believe that someone would only add to the threat. So your statement is nonsensical.
You live in Texas.
2
White and black bodies are caught up in a language that assigns different roles to them. Furthermore, that same language fosters the delusion of racial power. Language speaks through us and makes us subjects-objects in a social reality with which it works in tandem. That social reality is a set of social relationhips. Race is one of many terms in which those social relations are displaced. Class, another term representing social relations, is frequently displaced onto race in a metaphorical maneuver, which serves current language to disguise deeper contradictions. It is the mechanism that Freud discovered in the production of unconscious discurse. By displacement and metaphorical maneuvers language deludes us all. It is easier to talk about "evident" attributes like skin color or other formal manifestations of the social relations than of the slippery "essence" or language that constitutes us as subjects-objects.
That's why Trump gets away with facile blaming of immigrants and people of color. The positivist philosophy (i.e. the pragmatic attitude that abstracts real movement into fossilized concepts) continues to wreck our perceptions and make it difficult to identify the real contradiction.
That's why Trump gets away with facile blaming of immigrants and people of color. The positivist philosophy (i.e. the pragmatic attitude that abstracts real movement into fossilized concepts) continues to wreck our perceptions and make it difficult to identify the real contradiction.
5
Nicholas, I don't understand the statement you made about half of whites reporting they discriminated for being white. That makes no sense unless it's only indicative of our inability to come to terms with race.
The example you cite about Dr. Williams getting ahead through Head Start is illuminating only if it's compared to today. Back in the 60s, I believe there was optimism that racial issues and increased opportunities for blacks that we simply don't see today. In the 60s whites banded together with African Americans to demand programs that addressed racial justice and opportunity.
I don't see that today. And, like many columns are saying this week, it's time to move on from having a "conversation" about race to doing something about the issues driving policing in black communities and the pervasive discrimination African Americans still face. Talk is cheap. Programs and solid proposals aren't , if they are backed with funding that our polarized political system rejects.
When the head surgeon of a Dallas ER claims to both respect but also fear the police--he could be a target any night he drives away from his unit--it's pretty obvious how much of a problem we still have.
The example you cite about Dr. Williams getting ahead through Head Start is illuminating only if it's compared to today. Back in the 60s, I believe there was optimism that racial issues and increased opportunities for blacks that we simply don't see today. In the 60s whites banded together with African Americans to demand programs that addressed racial justice and opportunity.
I don't see that today. And, like many columns are saying this week, it's time to move on from having a "conversation" about race to doing something about the issues driving policing in black communities and the pervasive discrimination African Americans still face. Talk is cheap. Programs and solid proposals aren't , if they are backed with funding that our polarized political system rejects.
When the head surgeon of a Dallas ER claims to both respect but also fear the police--he could be a target any night he drives away from his unit--it's pretty obvious how much of a problem we still have.
153
Agreed. Having conversations is not enough. People working for state and federal governments, people in positions with powers, should set policies that demand changes for racial equality.
2
It was Darren Walker, the president of the Ford Foundation, whose Head-Start experience was described in the article, not Brian Williams, the Dallas trauma doctor.
It's also illuminating that the police experience of Dr. Williams is similar to that of Senator Tim Scott (R-SC) who has been stopped 7 times by police in the year since he was elected to the US Senate. Tim Scott was wearing his senate lapel pin during at least some of the police stops but is African American. It is not a class thing, it is a skin color thing.
It's also illuminating that the police experience of Dr. Williams is similar to that of Senator Tim Scott (R-SC) who has been stopped 7 times by police in the year since he was elected to the US Senate. Tim Scott was wearing his senate lapel pin during at least some of the police stops but is African American. It is not a class thing, it is a skin color thing.
1
"Nicholas, I don't understand the statement you made about half of whites reporting they discriminated for being white. That makes no sense unless it's only indicative of our inability to come to terms with race."
It happens. It happened to me. I was called into the African American manager's office on the last day of a limited term job. I thought she was going to thank me for the work I had done, and had gone beyond the requirements of the job. I was accused of being a racist. This was not a conversation like - what about some situation. Not to get into the details, I found I didn't have anything to say. I had dated men of various ethnicities, had housemates - the same. I housed a homeless black man for the better part of a year and he called me on Mother's Day to say HI and Thank You. I said nothing other than I did not agree, because I didn't feel I had to justify my existence to someone who had branded me in this way. No enumeration of my experiences in life were going to make a difference to someone who had already made up her mind about me based on gossip and her own preconceived ideas of who and what she thought I was. Why this was not brought up earlier I don't know, apparently a failing of her responsibilities. But I did not generalize re her race and her racism. Life is unfair, I knew who I was and how I conducted myself - so have been on the receiving end of racism. It is a BAD place to be, and I understand...
It happens. It happened to me. I was called into the African American manager's office on the last day of a limited term job. I thought she was going to thank me for the work I had done, and had gone beyond the requirements of the job. I was accused of being a racist. This was not a conversation like - what about some situation. Not to get into the details, I found I didn't have anything to say. I had dated men of various ethnicities, had housemates - the same. I housed a homeless black man for the better part of a year and he called me on Mother's Day to say HI and Thank You. I said nothing other than I did not agree, because I didn't feel I had to justify my existence to someone who had branded me in this way. No enumeration of my experiences in life were going to make a difference to someone who had already made up her mind about me based on gossip and her own preconceived ideas of who and what she thought I was. Why this was not brought up earlier I don't know, apparently a failing of her responsibilities. But I did not generalize re her race and her racism. Life is unfair, I knew who I was and how I conducted myself - so have been on the receiving end of racism. It is a BAD place to be, and I understand...
1
Ever notice how columns about black issues have the fewest comments?
Whites are deluded and black delude themselves in order to cope. Racism surrounds us and most whites are complicit by saying nothing. They don't necessarily get u and walk out of the room when someone says something offensive. They aren't going to lose a friend over it. Blacks do the same thing, for the same reason, especially since any sufferance the receive is tenuous.
Whites are deluded and black delude themselves in order to cope. Racism surrounds us and most whites are complicit by saying nothing. They don't necessarily get u and walk out of the room when someone says something offensive. They aren't going to lose a friend over it. Blacks do the same thing, for the same reason, especially since any sufferance the receive is tenuous.
35
This is an important point. I am unsure how to respond. As a so-called "white" I have been aware of race as an issue since childhood in the late 1950s, an awareness that increased over the decade of the 1960s. There are scenes I will never forget, scenes of busloads of African Americans heading south to participate in the March on Washington, of my mother in tears when a black opera singer was denied entrance to a club where the company were guests after a wonderful opening night performance, of trying to figure out how to respond to my great-uncle's disparaging comments--do I respect his age and politely change the subject to avoid a horrible scene? Nor can I forget walking home after a troop meeting with my African American friend, two little girls in our identical brown uniforms, watching her cross the street to her neighborhood before I walked a block further to my father's office. I cannot forget a freshman mixer our first weekend in college, where my computer date was a fun, outgoing African-American man--we were each as surprised as the other, but danced our feet off. Was I deluded? I have to say, no. Do I know every little detail? No, because that is impossible. I see friends, who are African American, put on the mask, trying to rise above, with a grace that I may never be able to accomplish. It's hard to reach across the divide sometimes, but I try. As for people who espouse white racism, I know I can't change their attitudes, so I simply change the subject.
3
Hey Brian. I think there are fewer comments because not many people - white or black have the guts to say what they really think. In city areas all black areas - to me - seem dangerous. Why? Back in the late 80's, in Michigan, (west side of the State) I was lost and drove through an all black, not in nice shape area. Everyone seemed to be watching the lost guy with a car full of kids. When I stopped to turn some guys started walking towards the car. I rolled down the window and asked directions. He said " just turn around and get out of our space."
Never forgot that , not did my kids or my wife. Hey, sorry for my color, but I get lost a lot. Same situation happened in Chicago back in 1999. Rolled down the window and a very nice guy explained the short to I-94. We thanked him, we all waved. To me blacks are the same as whites or Hispanic. Problem is that many government programs allocate too much financial support to help based on race/income/etc. Spend the money or support on programs that focus on education and teaming up. Promote at early ages more integration. There is an answer somewhere...
Tom
Never forgot that , not did my kids or my wife. Hey, sorry for my color, but I get lost a lot. Same situation happened in Chicago back in 1999. Rolled down the window and a very nice guy explained the short to I-94. We thanked him, we all waved. To me blacks are the same as whites or Hispanic. Problem is that many government programs allocate too much financial support to help based on race/income/etc. Spend the money or support on programs that focus on education and teaming up. Promote at early ages more integration. There is an answer somewhere...
Tom
1
The problems the author is describing have increased (white people believing that they are discriminated against) for one simple reason: the social safety net has frayed so dramatically for the middle class that people are unfairly blaming black people for the disparities in how the social safety net treats poor and middle class people. Here are some powerful examples: a poor person can send their child to college for free but a "middle class" person making as little as $40k has to be a guarantor (putting their house at risk) and their child graduates College in a lot of debt. In NYC, child care subsidies mean that a poor mother can send her child to the same daycare for $200 a month out of pocket that a middle class mother must pay $1200 a month for. In NYC, food stamps mean that a poor mother can afford to have three children and get $600 a month in food stamps but a middle class mother who pays for food all by herself can only afford to have one child. There is similar government help regarding subsidized housing for poor people. But the question I have is this: what's the point In working three part time temp jobs to be middle class when you could work less hard and be poor and your child won't graduate with a mountain of debt when they attend college? Where is the help for the middle class? People turn it into a race argument but it should be a discussion of how to incentivize the middle class to keep working hard.
97
You make some excellent points. Remember: The political and powerful elite intentionally adopt policies that will divide and conquer the 90% of us, so we will spend all our energy fighting each other like children instead of forcing them to pass laws that benefit us, the taxpayers.
Our entire country is being gutted by "conservative" (all they are conserving is the wealth of their cohorts) who keep pushing their trickle down economics -- lower taxes on businesses and corporations! -- running their states and cities into bankruptcy. And naturally citizens keep clamoring for lower taxes, too. Everyone knows you can't even run a household like this; you have to have income to cover expenses. We all want our cake -- good government services -- without having to pay for them. Whatever happened to the notion of civic DUTY?
Our entire country is being gutted by "conservative" (all they are conserving is the wealth of their cohorts) who keep pushing their trickle down economics -- lower taxes on businesses and corporations! -- running their states and cities into bankruptcy. And naturally citizens keep clamoring for lower taxes, too. Everyone knows you can't even run a household like this; you have to have income to cover expenses. We all want our cake -- good government services -- without having to pay for them. Whatever happened to the notion of civic DUTY?
1
Amen
1
What's the point? No one wants to be poor.
Thanks for your essay. I agree. That said, the volume coming from the Trump supporters is beginning to feel overwhelming to me. I can see white advantage; I can see institutionalized racism; I have had many black friends and acquaintances, some of them with advanced degrees, tell me stories of their experiences of racism. I believe it has been and continues to be a problem.
All of that said, in the current climate I feel powerless to make a dent. It feels to me as if there is an overwhelming tide of white resentment among folks who have great certitude in the rightness of their arguments; that they believe that whites are now oppressed; that people of color have many "advantages," and that since whites will soon be a demographic "minority" that whites should now claim "minority rights."
At the moment, I want to withdraw. I am also horrified at Trump, his racism, and the justification of his positions and comments by his millions of supporters. My disappointment in my fellow Americans is great. Perhaps the silver lining is that what has been hidden is now out in the open. Still, I grieve.
All of that said, in the current climate I feel powerless to make a dent. It feels to me as if there is an overwhelming tide of white resentment among folks who have great certitude in the rightness of their arguments; that they believe that whites are now oppressed; that people of color have many "advantages," and that since whites will soon be a demographic "minority" that whites should now claim "minority rights."
At the moment, I want to withdraw. I am also horrified at Trump, his racism, and the justification of his positions and comments by his millions of supporters. My disappointment in my fellow Americans is great. Perhaps the silver lining is that what has been hidden is now out in the open. Still, I grieve.
337
Trump's campaign is I hope the last gasp of white male dominance. I doubt up it though. Just look at who runs the tech companies and start ups. Who has the money to fund the startups? It's all young white males. If research holds that like hire and promote like, racial equality is a few more generations away.
16
I feel the same. But many Americans do not have the privilege of withdrawing in horror. The color of their skin keeps them visible and in danger from the police and from the Trump supporters and their ilk. So even if they are not coming for us (at least, not yet), we still have a moral and civic obligation to speak out and to stand up.
That said, it is difficult to follow through. I am afraid of Trump's supporters, and I am afraid of the police in many contexts. I'm the right color, so if I keep my mouth shut and stay home, there's a good chance they won't notice me.
That said, it is difficult to follow through. I am afraid of Trump's supporters, and I am afraid of the police in many contexts. I'm the right color, so if I keep my mouth shut and stay home, there's a good chance they won't notice me.
2
Thank you. My sentiments exactly.
1
You are right, it's hard to be any minority in The USA and now the republicans actually have a candidate openly pandering to racism. What will they think of next, those wacky white racists.
12
Yes, but this is precisely the time we need to become more engaged, either in working to elevate poor minorities, or volunteering in a poor school, or mentoring a poor minority, or standing shoulder-to-shoulder with our non-white neighbors (by which, given our housing segregation, I mean those who live in our town). We most need to act when the urge to retreat is strongest.
2
Nicholas, I have long since lost interest in reading NYT columns that see whites as one monolith and blacks as another. I could cite many examples, of which you are one with your countless "White men don't get it columns".
Whites in America include Hispanics, immigrants from Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt - to name a few as well as the descendants of a vast array of ethnicities. So when you use half-century old findings surveying who knows which whites, I lose interest.
I have equally lost interest in surveys but would be interested to read something new that is not fixated on two mythical monoliths, so called black and white "races". For example, you might look at the "living" situations of people in a small American city as a function of their access to public transportation, medical care, decent housing, pre-school care, and schools without any reference to their supposed "race". Then do the same for a city in an advanced Western European country. Tell us what you learn.
Good luck.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
Whites in America include Hispanics, immigrants from Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt - to name a few as well as the descendants of a vast array of ethnicities. So when you use half-century old findings surveying who knows which whites, I lose interest.
I have equally lost interest in surveys but would be interested to read something new that is not fixated on two mythical monoliths, so called black and white "races". For example, you might look at the "living" situations of people in a small American city as a function of their access to public transportation, medical care, decent housing, pre-school care, and schools without any reference to their supposed "race". Then do the same for a city in an advanced Western European country. Tell us what you learn.
Good luck.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
259
I'm curious as to why you would read this clearly headlined column if you have indeed lost interest in these types of discussions.
No one disputes your point that "white" is a broad and not particularly precise description. Anyone with a cursory knowledge of American history knows that the ethnic makeup of whites in the U.S. has changed since the 1960s. This fact is certainly germane but doesn't even come close to debunking the argument Kristof makes.
Scholars and journalists use " half-century old findings" to make comparisons between all kinds of opinions and attitudes in different times; it's too bad you have "lost interest" in careful scholarship and analysis. Any survey by nature is flawed and imperfect. Ignoring or doing away with them is not a reasonable solution but rather an unpersuasive argument for ignorance.
Any discussion of racial attitudes is of course going to make generalizations, as do most discussions of anything. And clearly you are as fixated on the definition of race and its role in our culture at least as much as Kristof or anyone else despite your protestations.
Your proposal for a column on a totally different subject is intriguing. Perhaps you should write it and post it on your blog. Good luck.
No one disputes your point that "white" is a broad and not particularly precise description. Anyone with a cursory knowledge of American history knows that the ethnic makeup of whites in the U.S. has changed since the 1960s. This fact is certainly germane but doesn't even come close to debunking the argument Kristof makes.
Scholars and journalists use " half-century old findings" to make comparisons between all kinds of opinions and attitudes in different times; it's too bad you have "lost interest" in careful scholarship and analysis. Any survey by nature is flawed and imperfect. Ignoring or doing away with them is not a reasonable solution but rather an unpersuasive argument for ignorance.
Any discussion of racial attitudes is of course going to make generalizations, as do most discussions of anything. And clearly you are as fixated on the definition of race and its role in our culture at least as much as Kristof or anyone else despite your protestations.
Your proposal for a column on a totally different subject is intriguing. Perhaps you should write it and post it on your blog. Good luck.
11
Of course Sweden had a head start on eliminating poverty: at one point they shipped roughly the poorest third of their population to the United States. These voluntary emigrants had a pretty good record of rising out of poverty once they got here. Yet the involuntary emigrants from Africa and their progeny are still struggling to "make it" in most cases. Can you figure out why that might be?
12
Reply to Larry Lundgren: I couldn't agree more with you. Kristof is not at his best today (same for Charles Blow). Kristof paints with too broad of a brush, and old data provides some of the paint.
Language like "White America" and "Black America" fails to capture the racial and ethnic complexity of the USA of 2016, especially the large and growing number of bi- and multi-racial individuals, including our president.
I think Mr. Kristof is the only one with a delusion here. He is living in 1950s America.
Language like "White America" and "Black America" fails to capture the racial and ethnic complexity of the USA of 2016, especially the large and growing number of bi- and multi-racial individuals, including our president.
I think Mr. Kristof is the only one with a delusion here. He is living in 1950s America.
2
Bastille Day is a perfect occasion for this essay. I've just discovered, in Joshua Greene's Moral Tribes, that there's conclusive evidence racism is not intrinsic to our biological natures the way gender bias is. Instead, racism is a quite reasonable effort to reserve scarce resources - the best communities, the best education, the best careers, the best everything - for white men. Greene calls it The Tragedy of Commonsense Morality, because the outcome is very far from the best community for anyone.
9
More White guilt and Black victimization.
It's all good Nicholas except you leave out the missing ingredient: Blacks.
After a few decades, it is not White America's job to walk around behind Black America to provide pep talks and shoulder rubs.
If you polled the same cohort, they might have had attitudes 180 degrees reversed when thinking about arriving Hispanics, Indians, Chinese...each of these groups marching into their new home, taking jobs that can be seen as less than perfect, sticking together and exhorting each other, and harboring little of the pointless anger at the White community. They came with no language skills, often different faith backgrounds, few connections, and equally visible physical characteristics to set them apart from Whites.
Keep encouraging the victimization line. At least it will keep Blacks voting Democratic, that is if you don't mind watching them sit at the bottom of the ladder for another 50 years. But maybe that's the point...
Why will nobody talk about the Black record under the first Black President? When something goes south, at a time when we saw potential for a renaissance, you might sense it is bigger than the White attitude.
With the condition of White manufacturing jobs, I would tell Blacks that they'll be waiting a long time for help from other struggling folks with their own set of problems.
Can Black leadership grow up and actually lead without resorting to racial politics and victimization?
My guess is no.
It's all good Nicholas except you leave out the missing ingredient: Blacks.
After a few decades, it is not White America's job to walk around behind Black America to provide pep talks and shoulder rubs.
If you polled the same cohort, they might have had attitudes 180 degrees reversed when thinking about arriving Hispanics, Indians, Chinese...each of these groups marching into their new home, taking jobs that can be seen as less than perfect, sticking together and exhorting each other, and harboring little of the pointless anger at the White community. They came with no language skills, often different faith backgrounds, few connections, and equally visible physical characteristics to set them apart from Whites.
Keep encouraging the victimization line. At least it will keep Blacks voting Democratic, that is if you don't mind watching them sit at the bottom of the ladder for another 50 years. But maybe that's the point...
Why will nobody talk about the Black record under the first Black President? When something goes south, at a time when we saw potential for a renaissance, you might sense it is bigger than the White attitude.
With the condition of White manufacturing jobs, I would tell Blacks that they'll be waiting a long time for help from other struggling folks with their own set of problems.
Can Black leadership grow up and actually lead without resorting to racial politics and victimization?
My guess is no.
103
That is because you either have no sense of history or/and that you live only for today and believe that history doesn't matter. Were those other ethnic groups enslaved; were they then ceremoniously lynched; were there laws that actually made it illegal for them to get an education????
Were the neighborhoods where they lived "redlined"? And so on?
No--a hundred times no. You forget or you are ignorant.
Oh yeah: and are you actually saying that blacks created racial politics and that blacks are not victims?
Were the neighborhoods where they lived "redlined"? And so on?
No--a hundred times no. You forget or you are ignorant.
Oh yeah: and are you actually saying that blacks created racial politics and that blacks are not victims?
17
Do note the conditioning affect at play. A helpless kind of mindset is common to many people who suffer from racial inequality, economic disparity, etc; and I'd argue rightly so. If one was told one had little to no control over certain circumstances within one's life it is easy to see then that the same idea of 'no control' could pervade other aspects of one's life where one actually does have control. Victimization, of course, becomes amplified when one begins to equate more and more things as outside of one's control. There are inequities within our systems for black Americans - no rational argument against that. Is it reasonable to expect people who do face challenges largely outside of their control to not begin to adopt a mindset that extends further, a perception that becomes pervasive and ultimately what many reference as a victim mindset?
2
@Gordonet
I am thinking of Vietnamese boat people, Holocaust survivors, Irish fleeing the Potato Famine, Italians who were called "garlic eaters" by the welcoming Americans. You would be hard-pressed to find arrivals in any country who have an easy tradition (e.g. need I discuss the derision heaped on Asian kids who "work too hard").
Many have survived cruel hardship. That is their crucible and we are to admire it and assist their effort, not spend our entire life apologizing for something we did not create (do you look under zip codes for SS troops who worked in Dachau). There is not a soul alive who whipped a slave. Get over it.
The Blacks are being poorly counseled, by well-intended people like you and their more visible leaders.
It has to stop and condescendingly calling me "ignorant" is not your best weapon for convincing me that you are wise.
I am thinking of Vietnamese boat people, Holocaust survivors, Irish fleeing the Potato Famine, Italians who were called "garlic eaters" by the welcoming Americans. You would be hard-pressed to find arrivals in any country who have an easy tradition (e.g. need I discuss the derision heaped on Asian kids who "work too hard").
Many have survived cruel hardship. That is their crucible and we are to admire it and assist their effort, not spend our entire life apologizing for something we did not create (do you look under zip codes for SS troops who worked in Dachau). There is not a soul alive who whipped a slave. Get over it.
The Blacks are being poorly counseled, by well-intended people like you and their more visible leaders.
It has to stop and condescendingly calling me "ignorant" is not your best weapon for convincing me that you are wise.
2
I must respectfully disagree with (some) commenters here on the largest contributor to the issue of race. It is all about the money. It always has been. White elected people of the North, who were first generation Americans, in places like Boston, New York and Philadelphia failed just as badly as descendants of slave holders themselves in the post WW2 era. I grew up in the 50's and 60's and have no delusions either. It simply is not enough to be a "liberal". You need to put your money where your mouth is. Today, we all know that the oligarchy is in charge and their Republican shills will never yield to level the playing field, as long as they can control the purse strings.
39
You have hit the nail on the head Mark.
1
The premise of this column is dubious. The issue isn't what Whites do or do not know or are delusional about. Mr. Kristof writes as if nothing has happened since 1962, Kristof lists a series of negative events and assumes a cause without any proof. Part of the Trump crowd whining is this type of argument. It leads everyone to want to be a "victim" and to be benefit from "victimhood."
For too long Republicans have opposed assisting those who have not benefited for the power capitalist system and growing technological and global world. Democrats have accepted the silly balanced budget mantra. If there was a growing economy with a recognition that not everyone is a winner many of Mr. Kristof's issues might be mitigated. Bigotry is not likely to ever disappear from the world.
For too long Republicans have opposed assisting those who have not benefited for the power capitalist system and growing technological and global world. Democrats have accepted the silly balanced budget mantra. If there was a growing economy with a recognition that not everyone is a winner many of Mr. Kristof's issues might be mitigated. Bigotry is not likely to ever disappear from the world.
10
The problem is Cops and White People.
Why not set the standards for behavior and performance for everyone at the level blacks deem appropriate and the problem will be solved.
Why not set the standards for behavior and performance for everyone at the level blacks deem appropriate and the problem will be solved.
3
Honest. Thoughtful. Insightful.
Now it is up to each of us to confront our own racism and importantly the racism of others, including the institutions we interact with.
How will each of us rub out racism in our schools and communities? in our daily lives?
Now it is up to each of us to confront our own racism and importantly the racism of others, including the institutions we interact with.
How will each of us rub out racism in our schools and communities? in our daily lives?
189
confront yours, I am not racist. Start treating everyone equal- maybe use the golden rule.
1
Is it government's job to force us to do these things with threats of violence? If so, should it also force us to dress and speak nicely, and uniformly? How else to be sure behavioral mismatch or preference differences are not just hidden racism?
Almost no white person I know is a racist. However, there are still ingrained attitudes which whites have and which need to be addressed. There is still (whether acknowledged or not) a feeling that a black youth is more likely than a white youth, to be viewed as a threat on a dark street. How can whites get over that? Even in the most recent report of a Harvard-trained economist doing statistical analysis, while blacks are not shot any more than whites during police encounters, blacks are "man-handled" and physically engaged by police in confrontations in greater numbers than whites. This is disrespectful and demeaning. But blacks need to acknowledge that black entertainment culture fosters the idealization of a "tough/ aggressive" black male, indiscriminate disrespect of women, whites and authority. White American psyches need an overhaul. But black entertainment culture needs the same drastic overhaul. I believe the solution starts in teaching young people that much of what they are entertained by, is vulgar, objectionable and not to be emulated. Then, we must find a way, without being either disrespectful or discriminatory, to promote greater diversity and integration in social and educational activities. It can be done. I see it myself, in several communities, towns and schools. What can we learn from the good examples?
1
The civil rights movement, once something all reasonable whites could get behind, changed from "equality of opportunity" to "equality of results" almost 50 years ago. (If you read MLK, with his timeless and crystal-clearly correct quotations, or Malcolm X, with his insistence on personal responsibility, in the original you will be shocked at how different it was before.) Mainstream black culture has expanded greatly (I grew up with the children of black physicians and professors who wanted no part of imitating street toughs). We're treated to such things as the black unmarried-children rate going from 21% in 1961 to 70% in 1990 and then being blamed on slavery, and baseball’s Jackie Robinson (not even the first black in the majors) wallowing-in-the-abuses-of-the-past obsession. Since the late 1960s, black bigots such as Sharpton, Farrakhan, and West, and their followers, have enjoyed not only plentiful but POSITIVE press coverage - the Times, the Post and the like have printed things from them they never would touch if the races were reversed - and when something truly ugly happens, we hear how it shows how whites REALLY think, a severe insult to those of us who could never be bigots if we wanted to.Avoiding perception of racism has become job #1 among many whites, and those on the far left stretch to accuse them of it. Cultures are not all equally adaptive - do you think Jews, Armenians, and Chinese have done so well outside their homelands because of their looks?
43
I think your last sentence says everything about what your true feelings are, no matter how hard you try to hide it.
4
According to FBI statistics between 2005 and 2014 African-American committed almost 40% of the homicides of police officers in the US yet they comprise 13.2% of the population. Police officers are fearful of African American males. The statistics explain why. Innocent people are impacted by that fear.
105
Do you realize that African American communities have traditionally, and still been denied good public safety? If you neighborhood is violent, you too will defend yourself.
Neighborhood policing works. Intervening in to root out the most violent persons in a given community works too. It's all been done, just not often enough and not big enough.
Neighborhood policing works. Intervening in to root out the most violent persons in a given community works too. It's all been done, just not often enough and not big enough.
10
In a slightly different time period Africans committed 7 times as many homicides as Whites. The Black commission of homicide is so much higher than Hispanics as to make talking about "people of color" misleading.
10
I'm wondering where you got your numbers.
I just looked at the FBIs ‘Officers Feloniously Killed and Assaulted, 2014’ report (the most recent one published) on the FBI web site. It reports that of the 59 alleged offenders identified in connection with the 51 law enforcement officers feloniously killed "42 of the alleged offenders were white, 13 were black, 2 were American Indian/Alaska Native, 1 was Asian/Pacific Islander, and race was not reported for 1 offender." 13 is not 40% of 59, it's 22%.
Also, if for some reason you want to compare these percentages based on race it's more accurate to use the number of times police interact with each race than to use the population ratio.
I think more importantly, the same report states that “54 of the alleged offenders were male, and 5 were female”. If you believe that the apparently false 40% you quoted is scary to police shouldn’t the FBI reported 92% of males be significantly scarier?
Ref: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/2014/officers-feloniously-ki...
I just looked at the FBIs ‘Officers Feloniously Killed and Assaulted, 2014’ report (the most recent one published) on the FBI web site. It reports that of the 59 alleged offenders identified in connection with the 51 law enforcement officers feloniously killed "42 of the alleged offenders were white, 13 were black, 2 were American Indian/Alaska Native, 1 was Asian/Pacific Islander, and race was not reported for 1 offender." 13 is not 40% of 59, it's 22%.
Also, if for some reason you want to compare these percentages based on race it's more accurate to use the number of times police interact with each race than to use the population ratio.
I think more importantly, the same report states that “54 of the alleged offenders were male, and 5 were female”. If you believe that the apparently false 40% you quoted is scary to police shouldn’t the FBI reported 92% of males be significantly scarier?
Ref: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/2014/officers-feloniously-ki...
7
White Americans interact with a system of law, social order, governance, commerce, technology and recreation more than they interact directly with each other (ignoring the inconsequential how is the weather chats) in stark contrast to the Other America. They certainly do not interact with Other America not because they don't like them but because they just don't directly interact unless required by the system. There lies the impedance mismatch. White Americans and Other Americans do not get what makes the other tick. At a sociological level, America is increasingly a forced fusion of two societal models -- private, independent, system abiding White America and public, dependent, system overriding/ignoring Other America. This is why Whites don't get what it means to say "black lives matter" as to them the only truism is "all lives matter." This is why Others don't get the perceived lack of White empathy when an Other is mistreated for not being sufficiently system abiding. Neither model is right or wrong but the challenge of our times is how they can co-exist constructively and peacefully. No one seems to have the answer but increasingly many are aware of this duality that defines today's America. That hopefully is a start.
25
Equality for blacks has proven to be an intractable problem. Citing delusion suggests a failure of understanding. I don't think that's the issue at all. There is a lack of will to engage in the social engineering that is the only path to equality. Integrated housing, re-drawing school district lines, and making better-paying jobs available to blacks are among the most needed reforms. Whites are protective of their home values, their schools, and the favoritism accorded them in hiring. This isn't about delusion, it's about racial prejudice, pure and simple. White Americans are, in many ways, true descendants of slave owners.
51
I guess you've forgotten about LBJs Great Society, or the 50 years of the welfare state, or the social engineering that was tried (and tried and tried) with equal hiring laws, and Affirmative Action, and hundreds of programs for reform (Model Cities, anyone?).
The problem, Michjas, is that all that stuff was TRIED and it has FAILED....failed over and over again, no matter how many trillions (yes, trillions!) of dollars have been thrown at it.
The problem, Michjas, is that all that stuff was TRIED and it has FAILED....failed over and over again, no matter how many trillions (yes, trillions!) of dollars have been thrown at it.
24
As they say, it's easier to break the glass than to repair it: Here are some of the things that got broken and are not difficulty to repair with one set of legislations: [I've said this elsewhere today, but I think it bares repeating):That is because you either have no sense of history or/and that you live only for today and believe that history doesn't matter. Were those other ethnic groups enslaved; were they then ceremoniously lynched; were there laws that actually made it illegal for them to get an education????
Were the neighborhoods where they lived "redlined"? And so on?
No--a hundred times no. You forget or you are ignorant.
Oh yeah: and are you actually saying that blacks created racial politics and that blacks are not victims?
Were the neighborhoods where they lived "redlined"? And so on?
No--a hundred times no. You forget or you are ignorant.
Oh yeah: and are you actually saying that blacks created racial politics and that blacks are not victims?
4
It hasn't failed. It has helped tremendously, but we still have a long way to go.
2
I saw on Cspan last night, black Republican Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina giving a speech in the Senate, about the abuses he’s suffered from police. He’s been stopped many times and so have relatives and friends.
When police in some areas see a black man driving an expensive car, it seems they pull over the driver and check to see if the car is stolen. This happened to Scott. And once a guard asked him for proof of ID as he walked into the senate building.
Mr. Kristof, you’re a world traveler. If you’re so concerned about education quality, tell us how some of the countries you’ve reported in fund their education systems, and job apprenticeships for those not going to college---which have always been the vast majority, even here in the US.
Here we fund public schools with local property taxes, so the well off have better schools. Blacks often live segregated—they need funding from larger entities—like the fed govt. But that’s left wing socialism, in our crazy system, so maybe Kristof won’t suggest that remedy. Neither will Obama. The chain of causation goes way back.
Economic inequality worsens race bias. Jobs, better wages, and economic security are the 1st basis for lessening racial bias.
The police are acting out the trends in our Darwinian economic system. They aren’t held accountable for their actions, and neither is our congress for theirs.
Without change in policies for economic equality, we’ll still be reading the same columns years from now.
When police in some areas see a black man driving an expensive car, it seems they pull over the driver and check to see if the car is stolen. This happened to Scott. And once a guard asked him for proof of ID as he walked into the senate building.
Mr. Kristof, you’re a world traveler. If you’re so concerned about education quality, tell us how some of the countries you’ve reported in fund their education systems, and job apprenticeships for those not going to college---which have always been the vast majority, even here in the US.
Here we fund public schools with local property taxes, so the well off have better schools. Blacks often live segregated—they need funding from larger entities—like the fed govt. But that’s left wing socialism, in our crazy system, so maybe Kristof won’t suggest that remedy. Neither will Obama. The chain of causation goes way back.
Economic inequality worsens race bias. Jobs, better wages, and economic security are the 1st basis for lessening racial bias.
The police are acting out the trends in our Darwinian economic system. They aren’t held accountable for their actions, and neither is our congress for theirs.
Without change in policies for economic equality, we’ll still be reading the same columns years from now.
172
The idea of suspending a child in preschool is appalling except for the rare outlier child who has a true behavioral issue. It is shocking that bias in our education system is so entrenched tht it begins while children are still in diapers. If white america genuinely wants to help fix the education gap then the first thing that just happen is to stop funding schools based on local property taxes. If property tax money were equally distributed to all schools in a state or large district the playing field would begin to be leveled. no European country I know of funds schools based on local property taxes.
675
Oh, if only it were that simple. I do agree with funding schools without property taxes involved. However, EVERY attempt to get rid of this method has met with utter failure, because a majority of affluent parents very much like this system, which funnels the majority of monies to their own schools.
I am up for hearing practical, real-world solutions to the inequity of school funding. BTW: it will not ever, ever happen until we solve the illegal alien problem, which is VAST some parts of the US -- we can't pay to educate 15% of the children of Mexico, and then wonder why there is no money left to educate our own kids.
Lastly: if you talk to actual pre-school teachers -- in the inner cities, and I mean here "black teachers in black schools" -- they will tell you that it is indeed very possible to have 3-5 year old children who are so disruptive, anti-social and violent that they must be expelled.
I am up for hearing practical, real-world solutions to the inequity of school funding. BTW: it will not ever, ever happen until we solve the illegal alien problem, which is VAST some parts of the US -- we can't pay to educate 15% of the children of Mexico, and then wonder why there is no money left to educate our own kids.
Lastly: if you talk to actual pre-school teachers -- in the inner cities, and I mean here "black teachers in black schools" -- they will tell you that it is indeed very possible to have 3-5 year old children who are so disruptive, anti-social and violent that they must be expelled.
17
Yes, I completely agree.
School funding based on property taxes boggles my mind. The inequality is built in right from the start.
School funding based on property taxes boggles my mind. The inequality is built in right from the start.
5
Well said, Dana. The unique American system of local school boards and administration guarantees the enforcement of local prejudice through unwritten, oral directives. Of course, "local control" results in a colossal waste of funds.
2
Yes, there are blacks who are gang members, kill, steal and do drugs. But there are the majority who honest, hard working and try hard to get ahead legitimately. What I continue to find amazing is that so many whites and others(cuz not all who discriminate against them are white) can't tell the difference. When my friend, who has a responsible job, is tailed by the clerk as she shops in a store because he is afraid she is stealing, or another friend who is a lawyer gets dragged from his BMW by the police at a traffic stop, it upsets me almost more than it does them. How are we to get blacks to buy into a system that treats them poorly even when they try to play by the rules?
832
Thank you - your comment is the essence of what this really is about.
Its not about black on black crime. (Which may be an issue - but, crime statistics count only those crimes that are looked for and prosecuted. If we put the same vigilance to white collar crime as we do drug prosecutions the statistics might look a bit different ) Nor is it about poor blacks and a lack of opportunity (Opportunity and education is an issue for poor folk of all colors) Nor is it an issue of culture (ie. the breakdown of family structure and cycle of dependency - which is also true for a whole host of subsections of Americans such as: Appalachian poor whites and Native American reservation poor)
Its about using race as a shorthand for judgement about things that have nothing to do with skin color. Its about assuming the worst in people who are "others" and the best in people who look like you.
Its not about black on black crime. (Which may be an issue - but, crime statistics count only those crimes that are looked for and prosecuted. If we put the same vigilance to white collar crime as we do drug prosecutions the statistics might look a bit different ) Nor is it about poor blacks and a lack of opportunity (Opportunity and education is an issue for poor folk of all colors) Nor is it an issue of culture (ie. the breakdown of family structure and cycle of dependency - which is also true for a whole host of subsections of Americans such as: Appalachian poor whites and Native American reservation poor)
Its about using race as a shorthand for judgement about things that have nothing to do with skin color. Its about assuming the worst in people who are "others" and the best in people who look like you.
10
"How are we to get blacks to buy into a system that treats them poorly even when they try to play by the rules?"
It's a shame I agree. There is such an oversized proportion of black folks doing inappropriate and/or illegal stuff (compared to how much of the overall US population blacks comprise)-that everyone becomes suspect. This is not happening in other cultures in the US-this oversized criminality problem compared to their overall size as a group-people (of all non-black) just don't what to think. So the great/intelligent people in the black community are feeling the spill over effects of the many law-breakers in your midst. It has always been so and the ave well educated black person (if they were honest) resent the black underclass for hurting their life prospects in a peripheral way.
There is no cure for this racial divide unless blacks put an emphasis on education and stop trying to white-wash or ignore criminality in their midst as if it's "trivial".
It's a shame I agree. There is such an oversized proportion of black folks doing inappropriate and/or illegal stuff (compared to how much of the overall US population blacks comprise)-that everyone becomes suspect. This is not happening in other cultures in the US-this oversized criminality problem compared to their overall size as a group-people (of all non-black) just don't what to think. So the great/intelligent people in the black community are feeling the spill over effects of the many law-breakers in your midst. It has always been so and the ave well educated black person (if they were honest) resent the black underclass for hurting their life prospects in a peripheral way.
There is no cure for this racial divide unless blacks put an emphasis on education and stop trying to white-wash or ignore criminality in their midst as if it's "trivial".
4
What is going on with the police dragging people out of cars at traffic stops? An African-American co-worker of mine was recently dragged out of her car and handcuffed after a minor traffic infraction. I've made the same mistake as she did, and nobody's ever dragged me out of my car. How is this making anyone--including the police--safer?
10
I recently took a taxi in Chicago driven by a young black man from Nigeria. I don't think I have ever met a happier, more positive person. When asked why he had moved to America, he replied "Man, it truly is the land of opportunity". Perhaps we stress the idea of victimhood too much in this Country which results in so much negative thinking and in so many nonproductive lives.
56
The articles today, given prime status on the front page, are actually perfect examples -- they tell black people that they are victims, that everything is hopeless -- that they are treated badly but that white people get treated like movie stars and are "privileged" -- the articles assume "all blacks are poor, and all white people are RICH" -- so you end up with aggrieved black Americans who feel victimized EVEN WHEN given all kinds of welfare, tax advantages, Affirmative Action programs and second, third, fourth chances -- and white people who feel put-upon, rejected, scorned and told they are evil racists no matter what they do.
Honestly! and then the lefty media wonders (about 5 times a day) "why would they (those awful evil white people!) support Trump? when we've scorned and harangued white people for 50 years! why won't they bow down and accept our Empress as their leader?"
Honestly! and then the lefty media wonders (about 5 times a day) "why would they (those awful evil white people!) support Trump? when we've scorned and harangued white people for 50 years! why won't they bow down and accept our Empress as their leader?"
40
Exactly this, I recently moved to a large meteopolitan area in the south with a large African American population. Working as a medical residents, at the hospital I am at the are African American and Black Immigrant surgeons, nurses, anesthesiologists, uber drivers, etc. The visible effects of the repression from White people that BLM spouts seem to be tenacious at best.
1
The History of White delusion has been well covered. I find the lack of will to report on the history of Black delusion gutless and another sign that Americans no longer have an informed, independent, or free press.
88
Well, what is the history of black delusion? Lynchings, Jim Crow, governors blocking school entrances from admission by blacks, "you lie," shooting unarmed black men in the back?
22
Yes, its been well covered and yet nothing changes...
Talk is cheap. Do something that will benefit all of us.
Talk is cheap. Do something that will benefit all of us.
Tell us: What is "black delusion?"
5
"A starting point is for us whites to...recognize that in practice black lives have not mattered as much as white lives, and that this is an affront to values that we all profess to believe in."
Ah, Mr. Kristof, therein lies the rub, as Shakespeare wrote. The first image that came to me, astoundingly, was a scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Indiana Jones was trapped in a well surrounded by crawling serpents while being mocked by his antagonist: "we are all very comfortable up here, Mr. Jones. Up here." It's quite easy for those without a care to both figuratively, as I just illustrated, and literally, look down on someone with a real problem and say "gee, too bad."
Your Darren Walker rightly shone the light on the necessary foundations for a functioning society: education, housing, transportation, criminal justice (policing and courts) that are all served by government. Yet Republicans continue to claim, as their hallowed Ronald Reagan did, that "government is the problem." Mr. Kristof, as others have noted, taxes and government are the costs we endure for living. How many Republicans, federal, state and local, have Grover Norquist's back, he who would "drown government in a bathtub?" He who would install a robot in the Oval Office with "just enough digits" to eliminate taxes from the federal code? Just how stupid is that?
And apparently many white Americans see no problem with this point of view. This refusal to see the light is our coming darkness, willful and ignorant.
Ah, Mr. Kristof, therein lies the rub, as Shakespeare wrote. The first image that came to me, astoundingly, was a scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Indiana Jones was trapped in a well surrounded by crawling serpents while being mocked by his antagonist: "we are all very comfortable up here, Mr. Jones. Up here." It's quite easy for those without a care to both figuratively, as I just illustrated, and literally, look down on someone with a real problem and say "gee, too bad."
Your Darren Walker rightly shone the light on the necessary foundations for a functioning society: education, housing, transportation, criminal justice (policing and courts) that are all served by government. Yet Republicans continue to claim, as their hallowed Ronald Reagan did, that "government is the problem." Mr. Kristof, as others have noted, taxes and government are the costs we endure for living. How many Republicans, federal, state and local, have Grover Norquist's back, he who would "drown government in a bathtub?" He who would install a robot in the Oval Office with "just enough digits" to eliminate taxes from the federal code? Just how stupid is that?
And apparently many white Americans see no problem with this point of view. This refusal to see the light is our coming darkness, willful and ignorant.
172
Kristoff points to unequal education spending as an example of bias. He's making the implicit statement that if we spend more on minority student education, that will make a meaningful difference.
NJ has been doing exactly that for 40 years following a series of court decisions. In more than a dozen of the states poorest and largest city districts, the state pours in additional funding via income taxes paid by wealthier suburban residents. Newark for instance offers free pre-K and spends $24,281 per pupil - an astonishing 30% higher than the state average which includes the toniest of suburban towns. They typically spend around the average $18-$20K
The results in these poor districts are not good. The performance gap between Newark students and their (mostly white) suburban counter parts has been increasing over the years. Graduation rates of minority students are comparable to other cities across the country including those that don't spend as lavishly as NJ does.
The lesson here is that the best funded schools cannot make up for major problems in a student's home. For whatever reason, New Jersey's experience gets completely ignored by pundits like Kristoff who toss off recommendations that sound good, but are ineffective.
NJ has been doing exactly that for 40 years following a series of court decisions. In more than a dozen of the states poorest and largest city districts, the state pours in additional funding via income taxes paid by wealthier suburban residents. Newark for instance offers free pre-K and spends $24,281 per pupil - an astonishing 30% higher than the state average which includes the toniest of suburban towns. They typically spend around the average $18-$20K
The results in these poor districts are not good. The performance gap between Newark students and their (mostly white) suburban counter parts has been increasing over the years. Graduation rates of minority students are comparable to other cities across the country including those that don't spend as lavishly as NJ does.
The lesson here is that the best funded schools cannot make up for major problems in a student's home. For whatever reason, New Jersey's experience gets completely ignored by pundits like Kristoff who toss off recommendations that sound good, but are ineffective.
219
There is no substitute for a responsible Dad, married to Mom.
12
What he actually says is that "we have tools that can help, although, of course, racial inequity is complex, involving not just discrimination but also jobs, education, family structure and more." He does not advocate the mere tossing of money at the problem; he wants white Americans to drop their denials.
11
Matt said "The lesson here is that the best funded schools cannot make up for major problems in a student's home." For many years, my assessment of the "problem" in these poor performing schools is just what Matt said in this quoted portion of his comment. There is almost a complete lack of parental involvement in students' education. I'm sure there must be studies which have examined this aspect of the education process, but I don't recall seeing any. I don't think much progress is going to be made until that problem is addressed.
17
Nick: This is such a level-headed clearly written piece. The trouble is, some whites will just toss it off as another left wing rant with little truth, because you know, they don't believe in facts. As a lifelong educator, having worked in well off and needy districts, the disparity is breathtaking. Not only do districts with well off families get their pick of the best teachers, their revenues are higher due to higher taxes, class sizes are lower, materials are cutting edge and technology in classrooms is a community goal. And in a state like mine, poor kids have gotten shortchanged through our the good deeds of our semi-famous governor, you know who.
Not until we have an adult conversation about the inequity that has persisted over time, will we be able to start the difficult job of reset. Job opportunity, education, policing, bigotry, "otherness", all need to be dealt with by adults who recognize the problems and choose to work together to fix them. In my opinion that's a long way off. Race relation may not be as bad as they were when I was growing up in the 50's and 60's, but it's close, fueled by the disbelievers, bigots, racists that crowd the GOP. This collection of mostly older people will need to die off before the younger, more open-minded individuals can get to the heavy lifting of righting (no pun intended) our country again...I'll probably be gone, but possibly there is hope for our children and grandchildren.
Not until we have an adult conversation about the inequity that has persisted over time, will we be able to start the difficult job of reset. Job opportunity, education, policing, bigotry, "otherness", all need to be dealt with by adults who recognize the problems and choose to work together to fix them. In my opinion that's a long way off. Race relation may not be as bad as they were when I was growing up in the 50's and 60's, but it's close, fueled by the disbelievers, bigots, racists that crowd the GOP. This collection of mostly older people will need to die off before the younger, more open-minded individuals can get to the heavy lifting of righting (no pun intended) our country again...I'll probably be gone, but possibly there is hope for our children and grandchildren.
86
@rosemary
A couple things. First, I provide assistance to people (including children who should all be treated preferentially, right?) in direct proportion to that individual or group's initiative. It is a judgment call, and you could say that this is not fair or equitable. I decide whether someone is showing the same appreciation for the help as I am for the sacrifice or risk in providing it. It becomes a bilateral engagement of shared empathy and commitment. Second, I don't think many people obsessed so constantly about the influx of other immigrant groups (and there have been many) in the past 5 decades. I don't recall worrying about Hmong, Chinese, Indians, Hispanics, Haitians, any of them. We interacted at school, church, in town. Some became friends, but I imagine that many of these new immigrants bond most closely with other recent arrivals who share that experience, language, set of challenges, familiarity with background. And I gained in admiration steadily for those whom I saw working shoulder-to-shoulder with me and my family to become contributors to our communities, schools, church.
The role of the Bleeding Heart is to bleed. I get that. But I do not believe that many Americans are sitting awake at night worrying about Blacks, other than to put an occasional BLM poster on their lawn. We take care of our own needs and expect the same. That is not some racial dog whistle. It is a reflection of the shared belief we have in each other's responsibility.
A couple things. First, I provide assistance to people (including children who should all be treated preferentially, right?) in direct proportion to that individual or group's initiative. It is a judgment call, and you could say that this is not fair or equitable. I decide whether someone is showing the same appreciation for the help as I am for the sacrifice or risk in providing it. It becomes a bilateral engagement of shared empathy and commitment. Second, I don't think many people obsessed so constantly about the influx of other immigrant groups (and there have been many) in the past 5 decades. I don't recall worrying about Hmong, Chinese, Indians, Hispanics, Haitians, any of them. We interacted at school, church, in town. Some became friends, but I imagine that many of these new immigrants bond most closely with other recent arrivals who share that experience, language, set of challenges, familiarity with background. And I gained in admiration steadily for those whom I saw working shoulder-to-shoulder with me and my family to become contributors to our communities, schools, church.
The role of the Bleeding Heart is to bleed. I get that. But I do not believe that many Americans are sitting awake at night worrying about Blacks, other than to put an occasional BLM poster on their lawn. We take care of our own needs and expect the same. That is not some racial dog whistle. It is a reflection of the shared belief we have in each other's responsibility.
8
While I agree property tax based funding is effective...the truth is, the state and Feds sent compensatory money to poor districts. In New Jersey, so much money flows to poor districts like Camden and Newark, that they get about $25K per child which is about 30% more than other districts. Yet the results are very poor, and have been for a generation. How do you explain this?
BTW: if you ever hope to achieve the VOTES of people who now belong to the GOP or just reject lefty liberalism -- you'd better stop insisting that they "die off". I promise you that the millennial generation you apparently worship and think is "so much more liberal than boomers" is going to end up just as conservative -- if not more so.
Your memory is very short, because as a boomer myself, I remember when that whole "hope of humanity" thing was about US, and we were going to "change everything" -- how'd that work out?
BTW: if you ever hope to achieve the VOTES of people who now belong to the GOP or just reject lefty liberalism -- you'd better stop insisting that they "die off". I promise you that the millennial generation you apparently worship and think is "so much more liberal than boomers" is going to end up just as conservative -- if not more so.
Your memory is very short, because as a boomer myself, I remember when that whole "hope of humanity" thing was about US, and we were going to "change everything" -- how'd that work out?
19
Oh, please CC! I wouldn't have expected any more than this from you. How much time have you spent in poor schools? I've spent 45 and from my meager experience, the schools are old and decrepit, the Fed money is helpful but doesn't touch the real issues facing inner city and other disadvantaged groups, and the "support" they get tends to be patronizing and with little depth. The "new ideas" for the quick fix end up bring a disaster, mostly money going to big wig corporations that are in the pockets of political types. I see these kids every day, just aching for someone to guide them. Truth be told, their support network is often limited just to those at school, but that's a whole other comment.
6
I note that although Darren Walker says Head Start did great good for him, the right wing and the Republican party have consistently been doing their best to get rid of it, from denouncing it in news articles to cutting its funding. G-- forbid those favored black people get even more advantages!
(In the last sentence I'm adapting the sentiment expressed in a very recent comment on another opinion piece here in the Times, I guess by a white person [why would I think that?].)
(In the last sentence I'm adapting the sentiment expressed in a very recent comment on another opinion piece here in the Times, I guess by a white person [why would I think that?].)
36
Is Head Start only for black kids? I thought it was for poor, disadvantaged kids! Most poor children are white, because most poor ADULTS are white.
The truth is, that despite what this doctors says, there are decades worth of proof that Head Start does nothing positive for children LONG TERM, and that it is costly and inefficient. I suspect we would get more positive results by changing the way we fund schools (I do agree that the property tax method is unfair and inefficient) and by reforming the corrupt and immensely wealthy teacher unions (which are the prime beneficiaries of the corruption & inefficiencies).
It is interesting in these discussions on race lately, the response of lefty liberals is not change nor reform -- but to DOUBLE DOWN on the failed programs of the past, as if this was 1966 and not 2016.
50 years have gone by.....and lefty interference has made things provably WORSE for black America....NOT BETTER. Worse, and measurably so.
The truth is, that despite what this doctors says, there are decades worth of proof that Head Start does nothing positive for children LONG TERM, and that it is costly and inefficient. I suspect we would get more positive results by changing the way we fund schools (I do agree that the property tax method is unfair and inefficient) and by reforming the corrupt and immensely wealthy teacher unions (which are the prime beneficiaries of the corruption & inefficiencies).
It is interesting in these discussions on race lately, the response of lefty liberals is not change nor reform -- but to DOUBLE DOWN on the failed programs of the past, as if this was 1966 and not 2016.
50 years have gone by.....and lefty interference has made things provably WORSE for black America....NOT BETTER. Worse, and measurably so.
16