I'm incredulous that anyone calling himself/herself a Christian (in the true "live and let live" sense of the word) could support this coarse, judgmental, vitriolic, candidate.
93
After 60 years of membership Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter withdrew from the Southern Baptist Church. They could no longer accept how Church leaders twisted words from the Bible to justify their positions of power and dominance of women.
The "so called" religious leaders cited in this article appear equally hypocritical in supporting Trump who violates about every tenet of religion. Jesus would never condone what they are doing.
The "so called" religious leaders cited in this article appear equally hypocritical in supporting Trump who violates about every tenet of religion. Jesus would never condone what they are doing.
136
I certainly hope the white evangelicals never, ever become a dominating force in the U.S. The major reason Trump has been able to take over the GOP is that the party's so-called "conservative values" are cheap, empty, and worthless.
111
The christian evangelicals and their leaders do indeed feel anger and anxiety and insecurity, but most of all they feel HATE, and it is spewed out in the most horrific way. That was not mentioned in the column today.
60
When did "we" ever stop saying "Merry Christmas"? And having a National Christmas Tree?
60
Christ taught that when you turn your back on the sick, the homeless, the hungry, the thirsty, the imprisoned, you turn your back on God for the suffering show the face of God, imagos deos.
Christ said a camel has a better chance of passing through the eye of a needle than a rich man has of entering the kingdom of God.
There is little to nothing about Trump that is not anti-Christ and anti-Christian. His pride is so astounding his separation from God is a chasm.
Christ said a camel has a better chance of passing through the eye of a needle than a rich man has of entering the kingdom of God.
There is little to nothing about Trump that is not anti-Christ and anti-Christian. His pride is so astounding his separation from God is a chasm.
69
"When you're used to being dominant, equality feels like discrimination."
122
Oh please God No ! We in the rest of the world and particularly NATO members have had enough of American unilateralism led by diktats from the Almighty that us lesser Christians are unable to hear. The white evangelical god (small g) is strangely in tune with all the baser prejudice of the US far right and that makes me think he might be a construct of wishful thinking.
55
Merry Christmas on everyone's lips, steel making in Pittsburgh. King Coal, and millions of cars rolling off the assembly lines in Detroit again; once the Donald is inaugurated you can begin to hold your breath, these things will be just seconds away.
43
Sorry, but backing Trump seems to be as anti-Christian as you can get. A Demigog.
disgusting
disgusting
46
This article's description of the political status of evangelical America brings to mind Cher's song "If I could turn back time". Many evangelicals appear to be trying to do just that, by making a deal with the devil ....err... I mean the Donald.
31
“I want the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find in that role, and I think that’s where many evangelicals are.”
And what would Jesus do?
And what would Jesus do?
41
How anyone can profess to be a true Christian and a follower of JHC can, without any sense of irony, support the Trumpster, is beyond belief.
36
"[Trump] added that Christianity will be resurgent 'because if I’m there, you’re going to have plenty of power — you don’t need anybody else.' "
Including Jesus himself, evidently. Trump is now positioning himself as the Savior. Or, in the least, Constantine.
Including Jesus himself, evidently. Trump is now positioning himself as the Savior. Or, in the least, Constantine.
42
How true, how cynical, how hypocritical. His history is an abomination of everything they clam to believe. How revealing.
20
One of the problems I find is ... I'm a white, male protestant Christian who in no way support Trump. All of us protestants all get painted with the Trump brush. The long and the short of it is for many who call themselves evangelicals: Jesus Christ himself could run as a Democrat and he would not get their vote, just because of the "D" after His name.
23
Trump is a grifter, and the white evangelicals are an easy gullible mark for his con.
52
'The former presidential candidate Mike Huckabee, an ordained Baptist minister whose daughter, Sarah, is a senior adviser to Mr. Trump, checked the “family values” box by testifying to Mr. Trump’s closeness to his adult children. Mr. Huckabee described their relationship as “one of the most admirable I’ve ever seen from any father with children.” '
His 4 adult children from two different wives and a younger child from a third. There's you "family values".
His 4 adult children from two different wives and a younger child from a third. There's you "family values".
31
What are the evangelical Christians doing to make America a better place for all? Are they going into the poorer neighborhoods to help establish better schools and job training centers? Are they embracing the anguish of the gay community in the wake of Orlando? Are they marching with the Black Lives Matter groups? Are they embracing the 10 Commandments or the 2nd Amendment? Do they chastise they own leadership who seek power and wealth over the benefit of the flock? Do they want women as equal partners or do they want them still subservient to the men who 'know best' how things run? Are they really concerned with the plight of Israel, or see it in biblical terms, waiting for Armageddon and the final Rapture? Where is the remorse for Jim Crow laws which kept people of color down for nearly a century? Where is the sense of shame that the officials they elected worked harder to overturn a law intended to keep people healthy then they did to make sure that we could afford to house and feed ourselves?
Stop looking back, and realize that in front of us is a new world full of both danger and fulfillment which won't be realized unless we stand as one to face it. We are one regardless of race, creed, orientation, wealth or birth, and Jesus reached out a hand to offer sustenance and love, not a clip with which to reload your gun.
Stop looking back, and realize that in front of us is a new world full of both danger and fulfillment which won't be realized unless we stand as one to face it. We are one regardless of race, creed, orientation, wealth or birth, and Jesus reached out a hand to offer sustenance and love, not a clip with which to reload your gun.
62
I'm a white evangelical christian and I would no more vote for Mr. Trump than I would for the likes of David Duke or anyone of that ilk. James Dobson is not my leader, he's not even a minister, he's some sort of psychologist. No matter how you calculate it, Trump's message of hatred and violence has no place in Christian thought.
59
Yes and it is sad to say that Jesus probably would not recognize these people as Christians with their fear of the other and gospel of wealth. The bigger the house the closer to God- right?
28
How much is Trump paying Mssrs. Dobson and Jeffries for their "mailing lists" (or whatever they have on offer in return for their "support")?
This is all a business transaction between con men.
This is all a business transaction between con men.
51
It's pure hypocrisy. They want Power and they think Trump will give it to them. So they will 'forgive' and rationalize this narcissist's life which has been very un-christian. "2 Corinthians Trump" will deliver the goods they think.
Won't they be surprised. But they'll still rationalize him away. Amazing what the human mind can do to get to the end desired.
Maybe they want him to bring the End Times on - deliver the Rapture to them.
Just think, if he Trump picks Gingrich has his V-P they will have, between them, six marriages. There ya go, mind! Start doing your somersaults!
Won't they be surprised. But they'll still rationalize him away. Amazing what the human mind can do to get to the end desired.
Maybe they want him to bring the End Times on - deliver the Rapture to them.
Just think, if he Trump picks Gingrich has his V-P they will have, between them, six marriages. There ya go, mind! Start doing your somersaults!
42
In embracing Trump, the evangelicals but hasten their decline. Trump is absolutely abhorrent to the next gens, the youth that the evangelicals need if they're going to survive. They are already alienating the American youth with their greed, their hypocrisy, their bigotry, their racism, their intolerance, their xenophobia, and their rabidly hateful homophobia.
Trump literally embodies everything that the young despise in religion, and well, I could not think of a better way to drive the young from their beliefs. Their embrace is one of the nails in their coffin, because it demonstrates clearly that the evangelicals have abandoned the teachings of Jesus in favor of the worship of Mammon. But this is the 21st century now . . . Mammon is modern, whereas Jesus is just so . . . first century.
Trump literally embodies everything that the young despise in religion, and well, I could not think of a better way to drive the young from their beliefs. Their embrace is one of the nails in their coffin, because it demonstrates clearly that the evangelicals have abandoned the teachings of Jesus in favor of the worship of Mammon. But this is the 21st century now . . . Mammon is modern, whereas Jesus is just so . . . first century.
40
The politically incorrect designation for "religious fanatics" back in Trump's day was "pentecostals or holy rollers" and that would have included of course lower class money-grubbers, outer-orbit religions like The Nazarenes, authoritarians like Falwell, Dobson, Oral Roberts, Huckabee, Bill Gothard, etc. Trump said as much when he said Cruz was some sort of oddball and that he himself was Presbyterian.
Once the GOP via Karl Rove realized that there was a deep vein of people terrified of the world, other races, gay people including their own children, women exerting themselves in the work place, and how totally easy it was to separate by these same people from their own rationality, it was a small step to separate them from actual Christian teachings and conflate Christ himself with the GOP. AND best of all, their $$$ was now up for grabs. Trump U with a cross- no wonder Trump jumped.
"They sabe plenty when they want to" said my grandmother about preachers like this. Trump is the devil at the crossroads and they are so happy about it!
Once the GOP via Karl Rove realized that there was a deep vein of people terrified of the world, other races, gay people including their own children, women exerting themselves in the work place, and how totally easy it was to separate by these same people from their own rationality, it was a small step to separate them from actual Christian teachings and conflate Christ himself with the GOP. AND best of all, their $$$ was now up for grabs. Trump U with a cross- no wonder Trump jumped.
"They sabe plenty when they want to" said my grandmother about preachers like this. Trump is the devil at the crossroads and they are so happy about it!
43
most religions, and certainly most religions in America worship the same god: Power.
Understanding that simple fact explains much about white Protestant Christianity today. And makes a mockery of a religion that misses the 1st commandment of Judeo-Christian belief.
Understanding that simple fact explains much about white Protestant Christianity today. And makes a mockery of a religion that misses the 1st commandment of Judeo-Christian belief.
30
The decline of white Protestantism, especially evangelicalism, has a great deal to do with their unholy alliance with politicians of the right wing. It's also true the "Christians" have become identified by whom and what they hate--and this has sent many former churchgoers scrambling for the exits.
So Trump is definitely not one of them--but he seems to hate those whom they hate as well. That's the sorry state of Christianity in America.
I am aware that there are many Christians who are keeping the faith of love and hope and who don't want to be lumped in with these haters. That's great, and you need to reclaim the label "Christian" from them. Good luck. Maybe you can make Christianity great again.
So Trump is definitely not one of them--but he seems to hate those whom they hate as well. That's the sorry state of Christianity in America.
I am aware that there are many Christians who are keeping the faith of love and hope and who don't want to be lumped in with these haters. That's great, and you need to reclaim the label "Christian" from them. Good luck. Maybe you can make Christianity great again.
16
Trump has won them over because they lack any moral conviction and they will do anything, even support a tyrant, to gain power.
13
Remember Elmer Gantry? These evangelical leaders along with Trump are just a bunch of hucksters. Their hypocracy is beyond belief. They are money grubers all interested in power and wealth. They take the Lords name in vain. They scramble and line up with the anti-christ himself.
13
As the national news becomes ever more tragic, the political news becomes ever more comic.
Seriously? The Christians support a candidate with the ethics of a spoon worm because, oh, white protestant men are in danger. They're just so scared they can't afford to have any ethics or moral values.
Wow. They are actually saying it out loud - they are hypocrites who only care about themselves.
Seriously? The Christians support a candidate with the ethics of a spoon worm because, oh, white protestant men are in danger. They're just so scared they can't afford to have any ethics or moral values.
Wow. They are actually saying it out loud - they are hypocrites who only care about themselves.
21
Pandering to the Evangelicals is one of Donald Trump's cons, one of his scams. This is the man, raised in the Presbyterian Church, who referred to the Communion wafer as "the cookie". I was raised in a Presbyterian Church in Brooklyn, NY; Mr. Trump, in the same denomination, in Queens, NY. He is only a few years older than I am, so I know, I know he went to the same kind of Sunday School (religious education) that I did. You do not need to be a "holy roller" to know how inappropriate that use of language is. His disrespectful language exposes the lie in his claim that he is any kind of observant Christian. It is simply a part of his completely false image, yet another con, like Trump University, that he is trying to sell to unsuspecting buyers.
17
God have mercy on those of us who call ourselves Christian if we have any significant part in electing this idiot.
24
You really have to wonder how "evangelicals" feel about being reduced to a demographic to be exploited. What happened to a personal relationship with one's god and beliefs, without the need to project?
17
I find very little Christianity in the "evangelical Christian" groups that are pimping for Donald Trump. While I respect the theological and doctrinal differences that exist within the Christian community, I have no interest in having your religion and values jammed down my throat by a government that was founded on the principle of religious tolerance. Having briefly lived and worked in Saudi Arabia, I think I have a better than normal sense of how oppressive it is to hear, over and over and over, that the country needs to be indoctrinated with a uniform set of religious principles which I may or may not agree with. Image if you are a Jew or a Buddhist or a Hindu or an agnostic or an atheist and constantly hearing that your beliefs are wrong.
And if we're going to drag Jesus into this discussion, how do you square his life with Mr. Trump, his excessive vanity and his 3 wives? Very little Christian charity resides in under that hair, I must say.
And if we're going to drag Jesus into this discussion, how do you square his life with Mr. Trump, his excessive vanity and his 3 wives? Very little Christian charity resides in under that hair, I must say.
28
A bill was recently introduced in Congress which would, according to the web site of the American Family Association, "implement the Countering Violent Extremism (CVE) program." The title of the article is "House Considers PC Approach to Homeland Security." The AFA objects to this bill because it "makes no mention of excluding groups associated with radical Islam." No mention is made of excluding any other extremist groups of any kind. A sponsor of the bill, Rep. Michael McCaul (R-TX), Chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security, wrote a note saying “To Mustafa [Carroll] and the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the moderate Muslim is our most effective weapon." Polemical diatribes like this will do nothing to resolve the divisions that we have in this country. It will only exacerbate them
3
Just to clear things up, the "diatribe" I was referring to was the article on the AFA web site.
Sarah indicates Trump's closeness to his adult children - of course he is close to his adult children. He's pretty much said he wants to have sex with his daughter - extremely sick and creepy - but a close relationship!
21
There truly is nothing more vile in this world than religion. It is the root of all evil.
10
If religion hopes to create a debate on life values in a democracy it will need to promote and support behavior that transcends blind faith, belief and rules from antiquated text.
Jesus said " don't kill people". It's something that Christians and atheism agree upon. Religion will need to be about issues where Religion agrees with law, like don't steal things
Until Religion can find a method to change and support law, and support democracy it will have a bleak, then bleaker future.
Any law that is created for religious reasons has no place under our first amendment, the law proposal has to make sense to and support the civilization of all of those people that don't believe, or function on faith.
Until Religion truly personalizes and subordinates to laws of democracy it is rightfully doomed. Your faith is destructive if it intends to disrupt or regulate people that don't have your faith.
You may find that civilization is allowing something that you feel, or believe, or divine is wrong. Your a freedom of religion YOU not do those things. Your freedom of religion based on " feel" " believe " or " sanctify" in NO way permits you from denying other people anything that is legal.
When your religion learns to be personal and confident enough not to judge non believers it becomes an actual faith, when your religion tells you to interfere, stop, judge and discount others its political, it's policy, it's police, it's not religion.
Jesus said " don't kill people". It's something that Christians and atheism agree upon. Religion will need to be about issues where Religion agrees with law, like don't steal things
Until Religion can find a method to change and support law, and support democracy it will have a bleak, then bleaker future.
Any law that is created for religious reasons has no place under our first amendment, the law proposal has to make sense to and support the civilization of all of those people that don't believe, or function on faith.
Until Religion truly personalizes and subordinates to laws of democracy it is rightfully doomed. Your faith is destructive if it intends to disrupt or regulate people that don't have your faith.
You may find that civilization is allowing something that you feel, or believe, or divine is wrong. Your a freedom of religion YOU not do those things. Your freedom of religion based on " feel" " believe " or " sanctify" in NO way permits you from denying other people anything that is legal.
When your religion learns to be personal and confident enough not to judge non believers it becomes an actual faith, when your religion tells you to interfere, stop, judge and discount others its political, it's policy, it's police, it's not religion.
4
There is warped sense of irony for Evangelicals to embrace Trump, a man who has boasted, “I have never asked God forgiveness.” My Christian friend told me today that all Christians ask God for forgiveness. And can any of the religious supporters of the three times married Trump name the church he has been a member of? I have listened to the hotheaded rants of Trump streamed live. His words of divisiveness have not the slightest resemblance to the teaching of the Prince of Peace, Jesus. In fact Trump is more like the Anti-Christ.
13
The first thing to establish is religion is a con. Trump knows that, he's just playing the game. The religious "leaders" you spoke of know it too, like everyone in power they seek only to stay there. The purity tests stop at each of those front doors. Say hallelujah. Amen, brother amen.
Back to Trump. Now that he is the chosen one the digging begins. Expect Trump's dirty laundry to require a few come to Jesus moments. But his faithful (and never forget a rational person removes faith and replaces it with delusion every time they see the word) don't care.
But I have a hard time seeing him winning, even though I am incapable of voting for Clinton, she's a Republican too.
Back to Trump. Now that he is the chosen one the digging begins. Expect Trump's dirty laundry to require a few come to Jesus moments. But his faithful (and never forget a rational person removes faith and replaces it with delusion every time they see the word) don't care.
But I have a hard time seeing him winning, even though I am incapable of voting for Clinton, she's a Republican too.
5
So if I understand correctly, these people are saying that the teachings of Jesus Christ are irrelevant, that the purpose of life is to have power, to dominate, to suppress dissent and to overcome "those people," the "others." They prefer a candidate who espouses fascist views, advocates torture to obtain information and targeted killings of families of terrorists, who is profane, thrice-married, unscrupulous in business dealings, and to some of us simply appears to be amoral. Maybe some of these self-appointed champions of truth and light need join the rest of us in some very serious examination of conscience. Mr. Trump is surely the most unqualified person ever to be nominated by a major political party in our country.
17
From the article:
"... we can expect, if he wins, more lawsuits and civic unrest, accompanied by more politicized churches and increasing political polarization along cultural and racial lines."
This thought is incomplete without Mr. Jones predicting what will happen if/as/when he loses. I'll give it a shot: " ... then the Evangelicals, who sold out their principles cheaper than Judas Iscariot, will have further marginalized themselves in American public life. This will continue to feed their paranoia, but the only time anybody will care what they think is during the GOP Primaries."
Good luck with that.
"... we can expect, if he wins, more lawsuits and civic unrest, accompanied by more politicized churches and increasing political polarization along cultural and racial lines."
This thought is incomplete without Mr. Jones predicting what will happen if/as/when he loses. I'll give it a shot: " ... then the Evangelicals, who sold out their principles cheaper than Judas Iscariot, will have further marginalized themselves in American public life. This will continue to feed their paranoia, but the only time anybody will care what they think is during the GOP Primaries."
Good luck with that.
9
Though a moderate evangelical most of my adult life, I am so disgusted by the behavior of these so called evangelical leaders, I have vowed never to set foot in another evangelical church as long as I live. They have traded the prophetic voice of the church for a place at the table of political power- a Faustian bargain, if there ever was one! No amount of public piety or public prayer will persuade me that these leaders are other than wolves in sheeps' clothing. A shameful travesty, if ever there was one!
14
Trump saw the evangelicals for what they really are - a part of Christianity taken over by the Conservative movement - therefore its leadership is amenable to a candidate who promised to help them maintain power and control of a segment of the population they need to promote their decidedly non-religious agenda. Trump saw a weakness, as all good salesmen or con-men do, and took advantage of their greed and questionable values, pretty sure they would go for the gold and silver as if it were their own choice. As a wholly owned subsidiary of the Conservative movement and the Republican party, they really were moved into a position they had no choice. Well played Mr. Trump - it won't get you the Presidency, but it will get you another four months of press coverage and life-time of publicity and renown.
15
Apparently, evangelical Christian law schools don't teach the old legal maxim, Protectio trahit subjectionem: “Subjection follows in the wake of protection.”
But at least they've answered James Madison's question: "Who does not see that the same authority, which can establish Christianity in exclusion of all other religions, may establish with the same ease, any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other sects?"
But at least they've answered James Madison's question: "Who does not see that the same authority, which can establish Christianity in exclusion of all other religions, may establish with the same ease, any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other sects?"
13
I am so sick of the harmful impact of evangelicals on the body politic that I hope all their children grow up to be atheists. End religious tyranny now.
17
I can only assume the enchantment with Trump is based on him maintaining white supremacy within the evangelical community. Surely it is not the hypocrisy of a man married three times with multiple children from each wife and his lack of knowledge of the Bible and non-attendance to church. I am not criticizing just wondering why exceptions would be made for this man while others who live similarly are branded as 'bad' Christians. It only goes to prove to me how the holier than thou crowd is no different from anyone else. Their Christian values only apply based on the situation and what is to be gained from that.
It also tells me that them trying to tell the rest of us how we should live is hypocritical at best and that everyone has their price depending on what they want to get.
It also tells me that them trying to tell the rest of us how we should live is hypocritical at best and that everyone has their price depending on what they want to get.
8
"Rather than trying to defend Mr. Trump’s Christian credentials, Mr. Jeffress bluntly said that in the face of perceived threats facing evangelicals, “I want the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find in that role, and I think that’s where many evangelicals are.”
Evangelicals appear to have no qualms about making a deal with the devil to get their way. Thier blatant hypocrisy will be rewarded justly and I believe that they are going to be sorely disappointed with the results. They will be dropped like a hot rock from hell when it is expedient for DT. The Devil is a selfish beast...
Evangelicals appear to have no qualms about making a deal with the devil to get their way. Thier blatant hypocrisy will be rewarded justly and I believe that they are going to be sorely disappointed with the results. They will be dropped like a hot rock from hell when it is expedient for DT. The Devil is a selfish beast...
8
A boatload of studies show that people will adapt their religious beliefs to model their political beliefs rather than vice versa. That says to me that their religious views aren't as closely held as they say. So don't call them by the title of their religion because they will abandon those principles in a heartbeat if someone threatens their politics.
10
The evangelical community are not values voters. They have stated some values, but have embraced a candidate who lives a life and aspires for a nation the opposite of those values. Trump has exposed the evangelical values for what they are: white male empowerment.
10
The leaders of the "white evangelical" sector have been running a con on their members for years, but that con is falling apart.
So they want to get the support of an expert con man to shore up their tenuous position.
Ipso facto, Mr. Trump.
So they want to get the support of an expert con man to shore up their tenuous position.
Ipso facto, Mr. Trump.
13
Was there any more proof needed to show that the Christian Right is morally bankrupt? To embrace a profiteering narcissist like Trump because things are not going so well right now is pretty sad. Christianity is supposed to be a source of moral conscience, but in this case it's reversed. People who celebrate the purity of their Christianity are willing to throw much of their precious moral precepts aside in order to fuel their anger and frustration at losing the culture wars and their economic status. I guess their morality is really only skin deep.
18
So making sure that everyone says, "Merry Christmas" is more important to these people than than welcoming the stranger.
It appears that Republican Evangelists are more like followers of a cult than they are Christians.
It appears that Republican Evangelists are more like followers of a cult than they are Christians.
17
Trump is on his third trophy wife. Trump is endorsed by Evangelicals. Trumps support is strongest among less well educated voters. What does that say about Evangelicals?
22
It depends on how widely Trump is supported by evangelicals. As I've pointed out before on this thread, evangelicals are not a monolith.
(And if after reading what I linked to, you still believe evangelicals are a monolith, then it's your mind that is made up and it's you who don't want to be confused with facts.)
(And if after reading what I linked to, you still believe evangelicals are a monolith, then it's your mind that is made up and it's you who don't want to be confused with facts.)
1
@Spitzer: I am sure Evangelicals don't think much of you either.
Well, many of their "leadership" are already on their 5th wife, so it's two-peas-in-a-pod.
2
If James Dobson and Robert Jeffress represent the public face and voice of evangelical Christianity it is little wonder so many people regard the notion of "evangelical Christians " as inherently contradictory. One may be Christian along the lines laid down in the New Testament or one may be "evangelical" in the Dobson-Jeffress sense, filled with the spirit of bile, arrogance, contempt, intolerance, and fear but having nothing to do with the compassion, generosity, and good will of traditional Protestant Christianity. Those of us raised in the old-line Protestant denominations in the true spirit of Christian charity and brotherhood are puzzled as to what mean virus gave rise to what might be described as Dobson-Jeffress Syndrome, the kind of paranoia and extremist perspective cloaking bigotry and a misplaced sense of superiority based on a clan or tribal view of society. They are the antithesis of what my grandmother called "bushel basket Christians", i.e., Christians who did not make a grand issue of their faith but hid it under a basket, not regarding it as appropriate for public display. In this respect the emergence of an American Taliban seeking to counterbalance the florid practice of one's religion by condemnation and repression of the beliefs of others threatens an encompassing democracy. What difference is there between the deformed fundamentalism of many evangelicals and the deformed views of ISIS? May evangelicals someday find their way home to Christianity.
21
The hypocrisy f these fake Christians is stunning. They make a mockery of Christ.
22
Perhaps they make the bigget mockery of themselves...
4
As a white evangelical Christian I wish other "Christians" would put more faith in God than in the ballot box.
To be clear, Jesus never ran for office. Nor did he care who was Emperor etc. He cared only for individual souls and to share the gospel - the good news. Render onto Caesar Caesar's things.
The concept of Christians voting and using the institutions of "man" as instrument of "His" will is just wrong.
I know pollsters like to group us together ... but my hunch is many of these "Christians" are nominal Christians. Yes, they may go to a church on Sundays. They may say they accept Jesus as the Messiah. But if they are really living their faith they could care less about politics and rather serve in the communities they live and model Jesus and share the gospel with those willing to listen.
The concept of a Christian nation is not biblical. We should not vote or seek candidates that share our values but rather just live them. Jesus could have overthrown Rome ... in fact many did not accept him as the Messiah because he did not.
I know many who share my belief ... and many self identified not like me. I think as the media and pollsters get to "know" this "demographic" they will find that White Evangelical Christians vary by demographics - NYC vs Atlanta Suburbs vs Rural SC.
What I think you are identifying more often than not is "Christians" that are self segregated ... white "Christian" schools, churches and communities. Not the Christians Jesus would recognize
To be clear, Jesus never ran for office. Nor did he care who was Emperor etc. He cared only for individual souls and to share the gospel - the good news. Render onto Caesar Caesar's things.
The concept of Christians voting and using the institutions of "man" as instrument of "His" will is just wrong.
I know pollsters like to group us together ... but my hunch is many of these "Christians" are nominal Christians. Yes, they may go to a church on Sundays. They may say they accept Jesus as the Messiah. But if they are really living their faith they could care less about politics and rather serve in the communities they live and model Jesus and share the gospel with those willing to listen.
The concept of a Christian nation is not biblical. We should not vote or seek candidates that share our values but rather just live them. Jesus could have overthrown Rome ... in fact many did not accept him as the Messiah because he did not.
I know many who share my belief ... and many self identified not like me. I think as the media and pollsters get to "know" this "demographic" they will find that White Evangelical Christians vary by demographics - NYC vs Atlanta Suburbs vs Rural SC.
What I think you are identifying more often than not is "Christians" that are self segregated ... white "Christian" schools, churches and communities. Not the Christians Jesus would recognize
20
Thank you for that clarification. I did not know that your type of Christians still existed. Those others are really giving religion a bad rap. I am sick of their hypocrisy and bad behavior.
6
Excellent distinction. Thank you.
3
Jeffress' candor speaks even louder than he seems to know. He wants "the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find in that role", meaning he'll back precisely the kind of vindictive liar who'll reassert the power of Jeffress and his ilk even at the expense of the spirit they say they represent.
Jeffress stands with Pontius Pilate.
Jeffress stands with Pontius Pilate.
23
Perhaps the imperative to feel a profound sense of persecution regardless of reality is a basic characteristic of fundamentalism, whether Christian, Islamic, or other.
31
Evangelicals used to follow the teachings of Jesus. Now they follow the teachings of bigots and the NRA. You wonder, do they ever ask themselves in a quiet moment "what will God think of me?".
34
The Bible describes a path for individuals to become perfected so that they can join God after they die. The Bible is NOT a social guidebook, it is for you as a single soul. When you try to take your individual view on life and force it upon other people then you join the ranks for ISIS, Al Qaeda and the Saudi government - it is a very evil thing to do. It took America 200 years to throw off the evil of forced Christianity. Good Riddance.
America has a civil guidebook and it has allowed the USA to become the dominant nation on the earth. We call it the Constitution.
The Bible is NOT the Constitution, stop trying to pretend it is so.
America has a civil guidebook and it has allowed the USA to become the dominant nation on the earth. We call it the Constitution.
The Bible is NOT the Constitution, stop trying to pretend it is so.
45
Well said, in few words. Thank you for saying this clearly... it needs to be heard again and again. An editorial years ago made the same point: If we try to force our religious views on others, the only difference between us and the terrorists abroad is a matter of degrees, not a matter of intent... or content.
5
Church and State are separate--thank God. Personally, I do not want to be governed by ANYONE'S religious beliefs.
42
The voting booth is one place where there IS no separation of church and state.
1
It appears the same people who love slamming evangelicals have no problem finding every excuse to overlook the intolerance for gays and women's rights held by Muslims.
Many of the same people who say we should allow every immigrant, legal or illegal, into the country with no cares about their background somehow feel entitled to slam certain groups that don't please them then ridicule others that don't agree with their views. Then they humor us by bragging about how open minded they are.
All any major media outlet needs to do is mention "Catholic priest" and hordes of people can't type "pedophile" fast enough. Yet people go apoplectic giving the Orlando shooter Omar Mateen every pass and excuse saying he wasn't representative of Muslims. While Mateen was NOT representative of all Muslims, the Left went overboard to turn the Orlando incident into a false gun control narrative and not a terrorist issue. Poor little Omar, big bad gun.
Evangelicals and other Christians don't care if one doesn't agree with them. People like and vote for Trump because he isn't ramming Leftist INTOLERANCE down their throats.
Many of the same people who say we should allow every immigrant, legal or illegal, into the country with no cares about their background somehow feel entitled to slam certain groups that don't please them then ridicule others that don't agree with their views. Then they humor us by bragging about how open minded they are.
All any major media outlet needs to do is mention "Catholic priest" and hordes of people can't type "pedophile" fast enough. Yet people go apoplectic giving the Orlando shooter Omar Mateen every pass and excuse saying he wasn't representative of Muslims. While Mateen was NOT representative of all Muslims, the Left went overboard to turn the Orlando incident into a false gun control narrative and not a terrorist issue. Poor little Omar, big bad gun.
Evangelicals and other Christians don't care if one doesn't agree with them. People like and vote for Trump because he isn't ramming Leftist INTOLERANCE down their throats.
2
Remember what Lincoln said? Better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
7
No, he's simply condoning and coddling their rightist intolerance.
3
No, he's just making America great, again. That is the "great" you remember in re-runs of "Ozzie and Harriet".
Good luck with that.
Good luck with that.
4
Trump's pandering to the right wing religious fanatics is disheartening.
6
He's no different than every other Republican politician.
5
Yes, but it gets him votes, and being an opportunist and a demagogue, that's all he cares about. Or haven't you noticed how he operates? Everything Trump does is disheartening, primarily because he's heartless!
5
I am a follower of Jesus, having come back to faith 25 years ago. My faith is rooted in the two great commandments, Love thy God with all your heart and mind and love your neighbor as yourself. As a young person who grow up in the faith, I was driven away by the hyprocrisy of white conservative christians who lived in denial of our country's historical sins. Eventually, i had to strip the self-righteousness of my youth, and to realize that the liberating message of the Gospel far outstrips the narrowness of white fear-based people. ( for the record I am white.
I know they exist, but in my circle of Christian friends , there is no one that supports Trump. That may speak to the isolation of Seattle and the Pacific Northwest from the heartland and indicates the harsh cultural and spiritual divide in this country. The word of Jesus calls us to live in hope and to be exemplifiers of justice, mercy and humility and to work for unity in the church. There is nothing compatible with the distorted and lie-filled rhetoric of Donald Trump with the teaching and claims of Jesus. God have mercy on all of those fearbased, white men and yes fear based women who fail to understand that the US empire has lost its influence in the world but God's word is alive an well in the Southern Hemisphere.
Don (sarah's husband)
I know they exist, but in my circle of Christian friends , there is no one that supports Trump. That may speak to the isolation of Seattle and the Pacific Northwest from the heartland and indicates the harsh cultural and spiritual divide in this country. The word of Jesus calls us to live in hope and to be exemplifiers of justice, mercy and humility and to work for unity in the church. There is nothing compatible with the distorted and lie-filled rhetoric of Donald Trump with the teaching and claims of Jesus. God have mercy on all of those fearbased, white men and yes fear based women who fail to understand that the US empire has lost its influence in the world but God's word is alive an well in the Southern Hemisphere.
Don (sarah's husband)
13
That we're questioning how white Protestants will respond to their demographic decline says a lot about their morality--and how little it has to do with actual morals...or any principle aside from white supremacy.
If all it takes for them to play Faust is Trump waving a few more years of white privilege in front of their faces, then why should anyone else care about their anxiety? They don't care about the country. They care about preserving their exalted place. And if they can't do that, they'll sign up with the first devil who tells them he can help, the rest of the country be damned.
Is this Christianity? Is this humility? Charity? Service? Or just white identity politics? Let's at least call them what they are: white supremacists who go to church. Not Christians.
If all it takes for them to play Faust is Trump waving a few more years of white privilege in front of their faces, then why should anyone else care about their anxiety? They don't care about the country. They care about preserving their exalted place. And if they can't do that, they'll sign up with the first devil who tells them he can help, the rest of the country be damned.
Is this Christianity? Is this humility? Charity? Service? Or just white identity politics? Let's at least call them what they are: white supremacists who go to church. Not Christians.
24
Civic life? A revitalization of civic life? The heads of seminaries might understand that and realize what that can mean. But for the average person who has been, he thinks, cheated, displaced, stomped on and stripped of place and power, that's nothing. They want their primacy restored and they want it now.
Also, how and why does THIS concept of "civic life revitalization" show up where it does? It's in the last sentence. It definitely deserves more than that. Is this part of a larger piece that we can't see? Does it lead into another column that isn't published here?
Also, how and why does THIS concept of "civic life revitalization" show up where it does? It's in the last sentence. It definitely deserves more than that. Is this part of a larger piece that we can't see? Does it lead into another column that isn't published here?
If we are all God's children, why do these so called Christians hate so many of their brothers and sisters?
19
Trump has now come out and said that gay marriage laws should be a state by state decision. At one point he was for gay marriage. He is now an evangelical puppet.
8
One might say that he is simply embracing the 10th Amendment.
2
If nothing else, this election has exposed the evangelicals' hypocrisy. They talk about all kinds of things, but ultimately rally around a guy who's had three wives and who knows how many mistresses, runs gambling centers, is blatantly misogynistic and racist, doesn't value religious freedom (at least not for Muslims), and has no problem associating with and accepting endorsements from white supremacists. Can we please stop saying these "evangelicals" have anything resembling Christian values? They're just like many other groups through history who've latched onto the emotional appeal of religion to foster some other goal. They are not informed by real Christian values any more than ISIL is informed by real Islamic values.
9
This article should be required reading for all Bernie Sanders supporters.
6
A dignified, Roman Catholic Presidential candidate, John F. Kennedy was compelled to meet with these unelected bigoted poobahs. Billy Graham, notwithstanding his cuddly, elder "statesman" image, along with Norman Vincent Peale ultimately failed in their hateful underhanded attempt to stop Kennedy, but eight years later Graham's influence tilted a close election to Nixon.
11
Of course, it was Papa Joe Kennedy's money and a couple deals with the Chicago Mob that tilted the 1960 election in favor of Kennedy. At least Nixon had the decency to bow out rather then to take the matter to the Supreme Court (a la Al Gore in 2000). For a while, at least, we didn't "have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore."
Later through, when he could no longer hide that he had unethically violated the public trust (and the law) in his attempts to cover up a failed breaking and entering misdemeanor, he again chose to bow out... that time in disgrace. Our most recent violator of the public trust sloppily tried to cover up an incident where lives were lost and related electronic communications were mishandled through "extreme carelessness." I don't see any bowing-out in Mrs. Clinton's future. Where a number of liberals would be glad to dig up Nixon just to throw him in jail, even today, the same folks tend to believe Hillary would make a fantastic president. Go figure.
Later through, when he could no longer hide that he had unethically violated the public trust (and the law) in his attempts to cover up a failed breaking and entering misdemeanor, he again chose to bow out... that time in disgrace. Our most recent violator of the public trust sloppily tried to cover up an incident where lives were lost and related electronic communications were mishandled through "extreme carelessness." I don't see any bowing-out in Mrs. Clinton's future. Where a number of liberals would be glad to dig up Nixon just to throw him in jail, even today, the same folks tend to believe Hillary would make a fantastic president. Go figure.
1
And do not forget that Mr. Graham, in a conversation recorded in Nixon's Oval Office, went along with President Nixon's anti-Semitic comments.
And who can forget Jerry Falwell's war on the Teletubbies!!!!
Those Evangelists are something else - but Christians they are not!!
And who can forget Jerry Falwell's war on the Teletubbies!!!!
Those Evangelists are something else - but Christians they are not!!
6
Ed - How on earth do you get away with comparing Gore to Nixon? Gore didn't do anything wrong.
Clinton's e-mails had nothing to do with any lives that were lost.
I'll bet money that you don't shed a tear for the lives lost thanks to G.W.'s wars.
Clinton's e-mails had nothing to do with any lives that were lost.
I'll bet money that you don't shed a tear for the lives lost thanks to G.W.'s wars.
8
must you expose evangelical leaders for the charlatans they are? they want money and Trump has money. a match made in heaven.
10
Mr. Trump is a con artist. To call him "a baby Christian" is just another bad joke. The evangelicals should instead pray that he does not become President. Mr. Huckabee support of Mr. Trump shows that he puts politics before religion.
10
Perhaps evangelicals see Trump as the Antichrist prophesied in the book of Revelation and they're looking forward to the end of the world?
11
Let me get this straight - Mr.Jeffress thinks that Mr. Trump is mean and tough - a spoiled rich kid, who mocks disabled people, urges others to punch people, and shows how tough he is by making a face like out of Zoolander. Then all I can say about Evangelical leaders is they must have lived out their lives in some place full of a bunch of little Lord Fauntleroys if he thinks that Mr. Trump is tough!
12
They may also believe that Trump will turn the Cuyahoga into wine, and feed the multitude of conventioneers with a few loaves and some fishes. A couple of Corinthians heard him say so.
11
Of course Trump is a person of faith - faith in himself, faith in the power of money, faith in the power of bankruptcy laws.
17
The term Christian does have real meaning and is based on the teachings of Jesus Christ and on little else. If an Evangelical system of beliefs is based on Jesus, it defies understanding how a "baby Christian" can espouse hatred of other races and religions as is the case now and to still be believed.
10
So much for Christianity as the foundation for character, generosity, love and humility. It's tribalism, exclusion, power and authoritarianism every time
12
Merry Christmas ! There, I seem to by able to say that right now. I'm an atheist and I have always wished people a Merry Christmas. If I were to believe Trump I guess I'd have to believe that there is some kind of law preventing me from saying Merry Christmas. Anyway, I'm not really sure that a Merry Christmas today means anything more than who can get first in line to buy stuff on Black Friday which now seems to start at dinner time on Thanksgiving Day.
So to all---Merry Christmas ! And thank you Mr. Trump. Maybe we can insert it into the Constitution that we can say Merry Christmas or at least send it to the Supreme Court. Also, is it OK to write Merry Xmas or is against white Evangelical Protestant acceptance. Also, since January 1st is Catholic "Circumcision Day" should we be encouraged to say "Happy Circumcision" rather than the pagan "Happy New Year".
So to all---Merry Christmas ! And thank you Mr. Trump. Maybe we can insert it into the Constitution that we can say Merry Christmas or at least send it to the Supreme Court. Also, is it OK to write Merry Xmas or is against white Evangelical Protestant acceptance. Also, since January 1st is Catholic "Circumcision Day" should we be encouraged to say "Happy Circumcision" rather than the pagan "Happy New Year".
14
January 1st is the Feast of the Circumcision of Christ for Catholics, Anglicans, Luthernas, and the Eastern Orthodox, and probably less than 2% of them all know it.
And while you may be free to say 'Merry Xmas' - you have to admit it rather odd, all the 'Christmas' and so very little on TV or Movies regarding Jesus Christ...
I think this tacit censorship of Christ on Christmas is what some find discriminatory - or in leftist terms, to celebrate 'Christmas' without the Christ is cultural appropriation...
And while you may be free to say 'Merry Xmas' - you have to admit it rather odd, all the 'Christmas' and so very little on TV or Movies regarding Jesus Christ...
I think this tacit censorship of Christ on Christmas is what some find discriminatory - or in leftist terms, to celebrate 'Christmas' without the Christ is cultural appropriation...
2
During my 11 years of Catholic education I was taught that only Catholics could be "saved" and go to Heaven. All Protestants and people of other religions could not be "saved" no matter what they believed and would therefore be condemned to eternal damnation in Hell. There were no exceptions.
Also, when walking along the sidewalk if we encountered a Jewish synogogue we were advised to cross over to the other side of the street. We were told to "feel sorry" for Protestants because they didn't know the "one true way to salvation because they didnt accept Roman Catholicism and the authority of the Pope.
Assuming what I was taught was true because the Pope is infallible when it comes to religious teachings and doctrine my question is this: "If all Protestants did indeed go to Hell have they since been released or are they on parole until they change their belief system"? To this day I have never received any official documentation in the mail regarding these life and death matters.
Evangelical Protestants can't be "saved". That's just the way it is. God said so. The Pope confirmed it. And that's what I was taught.
Also, when walking along the sidewalk if we encountered a Jewish synogogue we were advised to cross over to the other side of the street. We were told to "feel sorry" for Protestants because they didn't know the "one true way to salvation because they didnt accept Roman Catholicism and the authority of the Pope.
Assuming what I was taught was true because the Pope is infallible when it comes to religious teachings and doctrine my question is this: "If all Protestants did indeed go to Hell have they since been released or are they on parole until they change their belief system"? To this day I have never received any official documentation in the mail regarding these life and death matters.
Evangelical Protestants can't be "saved". That's just the way it is. God said so. The Pope confirmed it. And that's what I was taught.
I think it's even more strange that so many so called Christians refuse to live by the example that Christ set.
1
Right-wing, closed-mind evangelical voters, who are admittedly loud, only represent about 5% - 10% of Christian voters, by most reliable surveys. For a man who widely boasts about his sharp business mind, Trump's arithmetic skills will result in a losing, costly campaign strategy.
Does anyone wonder why old-line Republicans are nervous, very nervous? Trump is dooming the party to an unprecedented defeat, and it may not recover for a generation.
Does anyone wonder why old-line Republicans are nervous, very nervous? Trump is dooming the party to an unprecedented defeat, and it may not recover for a generation.
5
Maybe Donald Trump should spend more time with his family, since it seems clear that he excels at his domestic duties as a family guy.
As for running the country, he has an entire history of megalomaniac self-service at the expense of just about everyone he deals with. If the James Dobsons of the world believe for a micro-second that The Donald will spend a nano-second fretting about their spiritual concerns, then I am Santa Claus.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
As for running the country, he has an entire history of megalomaniac self-service at the expense of just about everyone he deals with. If the James Dobsons of the world believe for a micro-second that The Donald will spend a nano-second fretting about their spiritual concerns, then I am Santa Claus.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
8
Pondering this article. I am a life long Democrat - first voted for John Kennedy in 1962. Raised as a Christian but fell away as lifes experiences and higher education led me to a pragmatic approach to life. I respect those people of faith whom I know and am acquainted with. However, those are often the ones who keep sending me off the wall biased and dishonest e-mails clearly put together by people who have no ethics or compassion. Puzzling!
6
Voltaire hit the nail on the head when he said, “Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.”
Mr. Trump has turned out to be an even bigger scoundrel than James Dobson (though not as big a fool).
Dobson is a sucker for reprobate converts and fell head over heals in love with Ted Bundy after the serial killer conned him by doing what con men are famous for - telling fools exactly what they want to hear.
In his last jailhouse interview (hours before being electrocuted) Bundy blamed his heinous behavior on sex and violence in the media.
Mr. Trump has turned out to be an even bigger scoundrel than James Dobson (though not as big a fool).
Dobson is a sucker for reprobate converts and fell head over heals in love with Ted Bundy after the serial killer conned him by doing what con men are famous for - telling fools exactly what they want to hear.
In his last jailhouse interview (hours before being electrocuted) Bundy blamed his heinous behavior on sex and violence in the media.
5
I keep listening to evangelicals and various talking heads trying their best to justify their backing of Trump. I have done the electoral math more than once and Trump is headed for quite the thumping in November. The Clinton email/trustworthiness problem hasn't changed the electoral realities. The repub convention is going to be quite the freak show. After the November crash and burn, and after the coming lawsuits hit the airwaves, there will forever remain an extensive and easily accessible media record of those who supported this hypocritical con man.
5
Trump's greatest political move was to challenge Obama's heritage - this won over many Evangelicals (who still firmly believe that Obama is Muslim and a mortal threat) even before he entered the race. Trump also spoke of banning all Muslims and this cemented the Evangelical vote in a way that Cruz could not as a 'politically correct' mainstream candidate courting the general electorate. So it doesn't matter that Trump does not live the Christian values - what is more important is that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
8
When writers speak of Evangelicals, they need to be more nuanced. For example. the Rev. Jim Wallis of Sojourners is in no way an Evangelical similar to Dobson, Huckabee or Jeffress.
Wallis and Sojourners, like the Protestant mainline denominations as well as Catholics and Jews, takes seriously the social justice dimensions of religious teaching rooted in the message of the Hebrew prophets and confirmed by the New Testament writers.
Jeffress made a point of refuting Pope Francis by his support of "walls" that will keep a certain group of people out of the country, and he did it with a fundamentalist reading of the Scriptures, using the Scriptures as "proof texts" for his prejudices.
A major problem I have with the likes of Dobson, Huckabee or Jeffress is growing up a Catholic in a rural area of the USA where we Catholics were a minority. The Evangelicals made sure that we felt like second-class citizens and made sure we understood what persona non grata meant, regardless of the fact that many Catholics served in the military and gave their lives in defense of our country (two alone from our family).
The Rev. Jim Wallis is the only Evangelical that keeps the rest of them from looking like bigots.
Wallis and Sojourners, like the Protestant mainline denominations as well as Catholics and Jews, takes seriously the social justice dimensions of religious teaching rooted in the message of the Hebrew prophets and confirmed by the New Testament writers.
Jeffress made a point of refuting Pope Francis by his support of "walls" that will keep a certain group of people out of the country, and he did it with a fundamentalist reading of the Scriptures, using the Scriptures as "proof texts" for his prejudices.
A major problem I have with the likes of Dobson, Huckabee or Jeffress is growing up a Catholic in a rural area of the USA where we Catholics were a minority. The Evangelicals made sure that we felt like second-class citizens and made sure we understood what persona non grata meant, regardless of the fact that many Catholics served in the military and gave their lives in defense of our country (two alone from our family).
The Rev. Jim Wallis is the only Evangelical that keeps the rest of them from looking like bigots.
5
As a liberal, it disturbs me that my compatriots are behaving in the way as the people they demonize. Eastern philosophy suggests that we react most strongly to what we see in ourselves.
I'm no Christian, but the claim that all, or most"white Evangelicals" are pining for the era of white supremacy is ignorant and bigoted. It reminds me of the ridiculous claims that all black Americans are trying to overthrow rule of law.
I doubt the author has had much experience with this demographic. His stereotypes are really on display, and I can't help but notice that substituting any other race makes the article absolutely unpublishable. That's not right. It seems humans will always find an out-group to project our own insecurities onto. I thought we liberals were different. I hope that race-articles will have more substance from now on. We have real problems that remain unsolved, we can't afford to wallow in hatred any longer.
I'm no Christian, but the claim that all, or most"white Evangelicals" are pining for the era of white supremacy is ignorant and bigoted. It reminds me of the ridiculous claims that all black Americans are trying to overthrow rule of law.
I doubt the author has had much experience with this demographic. His stereotypes are really on display, and I can't help but notice that substituting any other race makes the article absolutely unpublishable. That's not right. It seems humans will always find an out-group to project our own insecurities onto. I thought we liberals were different. I hope that race-articles will have more substance from now on. We have real problems that remain unsolved, we can't afford to wallow in hatred any longer.
3
If the vast majority of the leaders of the evangelical groups support Trump then I think it could be inferred that their followers do also.
4
I don't think facing a well documented reality is wallowing in hatred.
2
I find it interesting that this piece seems to use the terms "Christian" and "Protestant" interchangeably, thus ignoring the entire Catholic population.
2
At this particular juncture I think I'll choose to take some well-deserved solace in the fact that we are smack dab in the middle of the information age. That means that more people have more access to more knowledge and are thereby empowered to make more intelligent and thoughtful decisions. That does not bode well for Donald Trump, Evangelicals, the GOP in general, and anybody else walking around with bags full of snakes intended to frighten the bejesus out of the ignorant. If we can keep literacy levels from falling I think we'll be okay.
7
This facile analysis makes no distinction between mainline Protestants, who really did run the country in the 1950's, and "evangelical" Protestants, who are a more recent breed as a political force. Many of the former likely dislike or are ambivalent about Trump (himself a Presbyterian), but the article focuses only on the latter, who constitute only about half of Protestants in the country.
3
That any evangelicals support Trump is proof that their position is more about politics and less about Jesus. A Christian is supposed to emulate Christ. Can anyone honestly say that Christ -- who preached tolerance, inclusion, charity, and above all love -- would support a man whose life and policies are based on bigotry, exclusion, greed and above all hatred. Of course they can't.
If you are a conservative and support Trump politically that is one thing. But leave Jesus out of it.
If you are a conservative and support Trump politically that is one thing. But leave Jesus out of it.
10
It is interesting to compare this article with the article in today's issue about the former member of the Saudi Commission on Vice (religious enforcers) trying to liberalize and modernize Wahahbi Islam, and the push back by the conservative religious community, who rely on the religious authoritarian model to control every aspect of life and resist any change. These Evangelical right wing Christians also seek to resist social and religious change, and want the power to impose their values on everyone else.
They are so far from being Christlike in thought and behavior. As I recall the passages about the 3 temptations of Christ while he was fasting in the desert, Jesus explicitly rejected the devil's offer of worldly power. The Beatitudes also reference the poor in spirit, and the last being first, and if there is anything Trump and the Evangelicals do not represent, it is the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount. (And isn't Jeffress the minister who called for the deaths of gay people?)
They are so far from being Christlike in thought and behavior. As I recall the passages about the 3 temptations of Christ while he was fasting in the desert, Jesus explicitly rejected the devil's offer of worldly power. The Beatitudes also reference the poor in spirit, and the last being first, and if there is anything Trump and the Evangelicals do not represent, it is the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount. (And isn't Jeffress the minister who called for the deaths of gay people?)
10
Of course, some progressives have publicly toyed with the idea of respecting or acknowledging Sharia law in America, to show tolerance and acceptance towards the Muslim faith. Mind you, Sharia law calls for the killing of any religious infidels and authorizes the beheading of any other person who is considered to have dishonored themselves and their families, including anyone in the LGBT community and even unmarried daughters who are seen in public without a proper chaperone. Certainly, that would also include unwed mothers and anyone seeking reproductive rights and/or active assistance with other women's health issues.
But I digress...
But I digress...
3
"White Christian America" "dominated American culture until the past decade or so.." The author uses too broad a label. "White Christian America" includes figures such as FDR, Kennedy, LBJ, and Supreme Court justices who set about dismantling racial segregation, aiding the poor, and promoting religious plurality. They had their flaws, for sure, but your typical modern evangelical - the Ted Cruz, Kim David types - are obsessed with abortion, rolling back gay rights, and restoring prayer in schools. They care nothing about eradicating poverty, homelessness, or disease, or promoting values of tolerance or compassion. They may be white and American, but in my opinion there is little truly Christian about them.
14
Protestant domination was based historically in the mainstream denominations: Presbyterian, Methodist, etc. These denominations established the great universities of this country, and their emphasis on education and morality, including the protestant work ethic, had some positive benefits for this country. As with all human endeavor, they were far from perfect, but I believe they strove for goodness and decency. I attribute many of our current problems to the dwindling numbers in such churches. Evangelical churches are quite different, and those of us remaining in the mainstream denominations cringe at being tarred with the same brush as the evangelicals, who have a reputation for intolerance, anti-intellectualism, and politicization of the pulpit.
9
This is a fairly perceptive essay except for the conclusion.
The reality is that not just white protestants but ALL poor Americans have been deserted by both major political parties.
We could have addressed the issues of the poor during the past 50 years, but again and again, the interests of poor Americans, who play by the rules, have been abandoned by the political parties.
For example, liberal Democrats now take scarce health care away from older poor Americans and give those scarce resources to an unending stream of illegal immigrants.
We put people in jail for drug addiction or mental illness, but not for crossing the border illegally.
And bad as Americans have it now, with living standards for the bottom 75% declining, those standards can become much worse, because there are BILLIONS of people in the third world who will take their benefits away given the chance. And Democrats are hell-bent on inviting such an unending stream into the US as Obama has shown with his "executive amnesty."
Couple that with rhetoric that claims that if you see the inner cities decaying, that perception in itself is racist, by liberal policies that pay poor women to have children, then accuse their boyfriends of violence and put the men in jail, and you have a perfect recipe for America's decline. (Consider the fact that the US has 14 times the incarceration rate of Japan!)
America is in decline. The one good thing that Trump might do is waken America before it is too late.
The reality is that not just white protestants but ALL poor Americans have been deserted by both major political parties.
We could have addressed the issues of the poor during the past 50 years, but again and again, the interests of poor Americans, who play by the rules, have been abandoned by the political parties.
For example, liberal Democrats now take scarce health care away from older poor Americans and give those scarce resources to an unending stream of illegal immigrants.
We put people in jail for drug addiction or mental illness, but not for crossing the border illegally.
And bad as Americans have it now, with living standards for the bottom 75% declining, those standards can become much worse, because there are BILLIONS of people in the third world who will take their benefits away given the chance. And Democrats are hell-bent on inviting such an unending stream into the US as Obama has shown with his "executive amnesty."
Couple that with rhetoric that claims that if you see the inner cities decaying, that perception in itself is racist, by liberal policies that pay poor women to have children, then accuse their boyfriends of violence and put the men in jail, and you have a perfect recipe for America's decline. (Consider the fact that the US has 14 times the incarceration rate of Japan!)
America is in decline. The one good thing that Trump might do is waken America before it is too late.
Where are you getting your stats from? I'd like to see the evidence that liberals are denying older Americans health care benefits.
5
Interesting article, but it's important to keep in mind that not all protestants are evangelicals and not all Christians are protestant. The white Catholics on the Supreme Court, Scalia having been a primary example, are not necessarily more embracing of diversity than evangelicals. Regional differences also need to be kept in mind. I think who the author is really referring to here are southern white protestant evangelicals. They have always been an important, but never an entirely dominant voice, in American politics. No doubt they are feeling marginalized, but they have been feeling that way ever since, well, Reconstruction.
3
Like it or not, white Christian America and their values built this country. Some of this group are racist, sexist, and homophobic (but some members of minorities are, too), so we need to work on that.
However, others need to assimilate if they want to be accepted.
However, others need to assimilate if they want to be accepted.
10
Yep, with values like slavery and women as second class citizens. It's not something to brag about.
15
The White Christians who "built this country" in the 18th century were the same people who kidnapped innocent people, tortured them, and exploited them as slaves; burned young women at the stake as witches; refused to let women participate in the political process; and committed genocide on the indigenous people of North America. And despite all this, they had the wisdom and foresight to allow the First Amendment to pass, forbidding the establishment of a state religion. How shocked they would be to see how the country they built now uses the pretence of religion to deny fundamental rights of the 21st century to its citizens. And how people like Jack can demand that others "assimilate if they want to be accepted" as though somehow being descended from while Christian settlers somehow gives one the right to judge everyone else. This is most "un-Christian", but more importantly, uncharitable, unfriendly, and historically inaccurate.
Sadly, Donald Trump has given bigots a voice now that somehow legitimizes their misconceptions. Make no mistake--this support from Trump does not come from a place of healthy pride and concern for white American heritage. It is the rantings of a pathological narcissist. Trust him at your own peril, but whatever you do, don't you dare expect me to do the same.
Sadly, Donald Trump has given bigots a voice now that somehow legitimizes their misconceptions. Make no mistake--this support from Trump does not come from a place of healthy pride and concern for white American heritage. It is the rantings of a pathological narcissist. Trust him at your own peril, but whatever you do, don't you dare expect me to do the same.
16
Jack, like it or not, you are not only wrong, but profoundly wrong. Many of the Founding Fathers were atheists or deists, who did not subscribe to any organized religion. Almost all of those who were members of Protestant sects strongly supported the separation of church and state. They would be appalled by the current level of involvement of religious groups in governance.
On top of that, the idea that it was Protestant values alone that built the country is an absolute myth. It took millions of people from all walks of life to build this country. Chasing after money was, however, glommed onto traditional Protestant religious teaching to justify slavery and mistreatment of workers and the non-working poor. Show me anywhere in the New Testament where it says "blessed be the rich." It doesn't.
On top of that, the idea that it was Protestant values alone that built the country is an absolute myth. It took millions of people from all walks of life to build this country. Chasing after money was, however, glommed onto traditional Protestant religious teaching to justify slavery and mistreatment of workers and the non-working poor. Show me anywhere in the New Testament where it says "blessed be the rich." It doesn't.
12
The decline of the evangelical churches in the US has been a long time in coming. Prior to the Scopes trial in 12925, evangelicals were the ‘do gooders’ among American churches, running soup kitchens and shelters among other services. The loud conflict engendered by even the possibility of teaching sciences in the schools drove them into the background. They did not reappear on the public square until being encouraged to do so by Senator Barry Goldwater’s campaign for the presidency in 1964. President Richard Nixon then made Republican outreach to southern evangelicals a defined strategy of the Republican Party. The strategy, with its voting lists, garnered the South for the Republicans for several decades. Then, evangelicals began seeing their churches as merely appendages of the Republican Party. That again fostered conflict, the effect of which led to the abandonment many church buildings across the South. Drive south from Washington, DC and you will see the abandoned churches, unkempt, along both eastern and western Virginia, north and South Carolina. We have seen the pattern grow on drives to visit family and friends over the last thirty years.
The remaining evangelicals feel beset, as they did at the time of the Scopes trial. The Supreme Court is giving short shrift to their ideological beliefs, many brought to the fore by the Republicans, on abortion, race and education.
The turn to THE DONALD is a cry of desperation that will be noted by historians.
The remaining evangelicals feel beset, as they did at the time of the Scopes trial. The Supreme Court is giving short shrift to their ideological beliefs, many brought to the fore by the Republicans, on abortion, race and education.
The turn to THE DONALD is a cry of desperation that will be noted by historians.
62
The Evangelicals are losing market share. They no longer dominate with their Creationism and anti-human ideals (anti-gay, anti-woman, anti-immigrant, anti-public schools, etc.). They have ago sold their souls to the GOP in return hoping for a new power grab. Reagan sold out the presidency and the GOP to the power mad among the evangelicals. He was our first Evangelist in Chief. He was apparently perfectly okay with the Southern Baptist that men should be the head of the household ("Headship) with the woman 'submitting graciously" to all the husbands demands of her, even sexual demands.
I shudder to see Trump in the role. He doesn't even know not to say Corinthians II. Obviously he is clueless about religion in the USA and only wants the votes of these extremist Evangelical. After the election, if he wins, he would sell the rest of mainline religions (Congregationalists, even Presbyterians, which Trump says he is) down the river.
Give me someone like the Obamas who sent their daughters to a Quaker school, where they learned compassion, loving kindness, and the necessity for that ancient Christian virtue, humility.
Or give me the Methodist, Hillary Clinton for whom her Christianity, a decent and loving Christianity, was formative. There are many "Christianities" extant these days and I'll take the ones that are what Americans have always thought of when they thought, "Christian."
That is, good, loving, decent, caring, compassionate, and willing to serve others.
I shudder to see Trump in the role. He doesn't even know not to say Corinthians II. Obviously he is clueless about religion in the USA and only wants the votes of these extremist Evangelical. After the election, if he wins, he would sell the rest of mainline religions (Congregationalists, even Presbyterians, which Trump says he is) down the river.
Give me someone like the Obamas who sent their daughters to a Quaker school, where they learned compassion, loving kindness, and the necessity for that ancient Christian virtue, humility.
Or give me the Methodist, Hillary Clinton for whom her Christianity, a decent and loving Christianity, was formative. There are many "Christianities" extant these days and I'll take the ones that are what Americans have always thought of when they thought, "Christian."
That is, good, loving, decent, caring, compassionate, and willing to serve others.
7
"Ted CRUZ, the son of an evangelical pastor and himself a Southern Baptist, should have been the evangelicals’ presidential candidate"
Do you see it now?
Do you see it now?
9
The problem isn't just that Trump isn't very Christian but that many evangelicals aren't in a way that would have led Jesus, with his emphasis on compassion and challenges to dogma, to recognize them as followers.
32
The problem is that the resurrection might soon come, and the new baby jesus will be the daughter of an illegal Mexican immigrant living in a border Texas town.
50
As T. Corraghessan Boyle has written in The Tortilla Curtain.
Trump is not a baby anything. He is a big bully.
52
@cc-
Yep, and that is why he is a perfect fit with the white evangelicals, because that describes them as well, they are a group of bullies, out to force their beliefs on others and to create a world where they are the only arbiters of what it means to be human. I have to laugh when religious people complain when they get mixed in with the evangelicals, when young people describe religious people as being homophobic, racist, nasty, mean, ugly, loud, backward and ignorant, because while those people may be nothing like that, their evangelical brethren that they might disagree with or criticize in private,let them become a political force and the de facto 'spokesmen' for Christianity, and as they say, ye reap what ye sow.
Yep, and that is why he is a perfect fit with the white evangelicals, because that describes them as well, they are a group of bullies, out to force their beliefs on others and to create a world where they are the only arbiters of what it means to be human. I have to laugh when religious people complain when they get mixed in with the evangelicals, when young people describe religious people as being homophobic, racist, nasty, mean, ugly, loud, backward and ignorant, because while those people may be nothing like that, their evangelical brethren that they might disagree with or criticize in private,let them become a political force and the de facto 'spokesmen' for Christianity, and as they say, ye reap what ye sow.
6
Today "evangelical" is synonymous with "hypocrite".
If Christ were to show up again now, evangelicals would be the first to run and get the hammer and nails.
If Christ were to show up again now, evangelicals would be the first to run and get the hammer and nails.
86
2000 years ago, the chief religious snobs who knew all the ways others "weren't doing it right" were known as Pharisees and the historical figure Jesus didn't care much for their attitude, as I seem to recall. Of course, I wasn't there.
5
God save me from 'true believers'. These evangelical "Christians" supporting Trump because he will bring back their power and primacy need to ask themselves what Jesus would -really- do. Because I don't think Jesus was all about power and primacy.
65
What threat does a person promised eternal happy life face that Donald Trump can protect them from?
37
@ArkyMark:
Simple, if you bother to think about it.
You see, in the meantime they want to live a happy life here on earth, and they will welcome any protection from the nonstop attacks and vilifications by the left and the liberal media.
Simple, if you bother to think about it.
You see, in the meantime they want to live a happy life here on earth, and they will welcome any protection from the nonstop attacks and vilifications by the left and the liberal media.
1
rimantas - No one is forcing your or anyone else to read the "liberal" media.
The right wing is going to have to face up to the fact that living a happy life doesn't include denying other citizens their civil rights.
The right wing is going to have to face up to the fact that living a happy life doesn't include denying other citizens their civil rights.
5
I for one thought it was barbaric when that law was passed banning Christians from using bathrooms. And when people rejoiced when Christians were massacred in that Orlando club, saying that, it was God's punishment for the temerity of the Obergefell decision. Or when that ex-Illinois congressman said he was declaring war and Trump would be next.
Oh, those were all things conservatives said? Like Pat Robertson? And Joe Walsh? Sorry, my mistake. Good to know that "the liberal media" is truly at fault here.
Oh, those were all things conservatives said? Like Pat Robertson? And Joe Walsh? Sorry, my mistake. Good to know that "the liberal media" is truly at fault here.
5
I believe that the Hillary committee to get her elected should adopt my recommendation for a new banner, or flag, which could be displayed at rallies and conventions. It would simply display that old flag used in America which showed a coiled snake ready to strike, and the slogan "DON'T TREAD ON ME". But hers would read "DON'T TRUMP ON ME !"
24
It seems these Evangelicals are backing the anti-Christ.
22
Those of us who have been in the trenches of the Women's Movement since the late 1960's see in the word "evangelical" not just the religious beliefs of fundamentalist Christian doctrine but a wink-wink code word for male hegemony and misogyny shrouded in the mantle of religion. A religion where men's often brutal dominance and women's subservience are sanctioned by the sacred cow of "religious belief." In fact, it is no secret that Trump's basest appeal is to a base that wants the status quo of a racial and gender apartheid society. My great hope is that Trump's Dark Age has already passed, and that it shall be proven powerless come November with the election of our first woman president.
18
I urge everyone to read today's front page article entitled Secrets of the kingdom. As you do so substitute the word evangelical for the words Islam and Muslim and see if this is the world in which you you wish to live. Since religion, not spirituality but religion is about power and control I prefer to live in a world where religion plays no part. One need only study a little history to know that the sins of religion far out way the good. Once spirituality has been institutionalizedno good can come from it.
19
The best protection for White Christian Americans is a strong secular democracy. Attempts to introduce and emphasize religion and ethnicity into politics only polarizes people, compels them to antagonism
The history of American immigration is a history of people adopting mainstream American mores. For better or worse, virtually everyone who comes to the U.S. moves toward WASP culture, even if it takes more than one generation.
Minorities in our country are more vulnerable to having their cultures homogenized than are majorities. I suspect the growing number of non-church-affiliated people still consider themselves Christians. We are in little danger of becoming a nation of atheists, let alone agnostics. The Black American population is not growing proportionately, but is still largely Christian and Conservative. The Hispanic American population, which is growing, is also largely Christian and Conservative. How do evangelical Christians think they are under threat from Black and Hispanic Christians, or unaffiliated Christians of any ethnicity. Those who want to think for themselves are not likely to be people pushing for laws or cultures to suppress other people.
How long were there no Christians who spoke English? If you meet people in the U.S. who don't speak English, rest assured their children will. Most Americans came from non-English speaking lands.
Tolerance and equality will protect Christians best. Look at the popularity of Pope Francis among non-Catholics.
The history of American immigration is a history of people adopting mainstream American mores. For better or worse, virtually everyone who comes to the U.S. moves toward WASP culture, even if it takes more than one generation.
Minorities in our country are more vulnerable to having their cultures homogenized than are majorities. I suspect the growing number of non-church-affiliated people still consider themselves Christians. We are in little danger of becoming a nation of atheists, let alone agnostics. The Black American population is not growing proportionately, but is still largely Christian and Conservative. The Hispanic American population, which is growing, is also largely Christian and Conservative. How do evangelical Christians think they are under threat from Black and Hispanic Christians, or unaffiliated Christians of any ethnicity. Those who want to think for themselves are not likely to be people pushing for laws or cultures to suppress other people.
How long were there no Christians who spoke English? If you meet people in the U.S. who don't speak English, rest assured their children will. Most Americans came from non-English speaking lands.
Tolerance and equality will protect Christians best. Look at the popularity of Pope Francis among non-Catholics.
8
"Nearly two-thirds are bothered when they encounter immigrants who speak little English." Unless they are their maids or yard men, etc., etc. The less English one speaks, the easier it is to (1) dehumanized them and (2) exploit them.
20
Welcome to America. It was once the Native Americans who were the enemy. Then it was "the Irish," the Italians, Chinese, Poles, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Cubans, and now, lately... Mexicans. Some exploit them for personal gain. Others exploit them for political gain.
5
Frankly, White, Evangelical, Christians should relish being in the minority. The early Christians in the Roman Empire were persecuted and only "real" Christians would rejoice over being persecuted for their Savior's sake. Probably, the worst thing that happened to Christianity subsequently was the edict by Emperor Constance for making Christianity the official religion of the Empire. This caused many non-born again former worshipers of the gods to take on the clothing of Christianity but remaining as non-believers, basically. I truly believe that the "Savior" is truly perplexed by the behavior of the Evangelicals in whose bodies he is presumed to reside.
6
As an outside observer I found it astounding that President Barack Obama, who through his own volition, accepted Jesus Christ as his savior, and has done a very credible job as President didn't find strong support among Evangelical Christians.
23
He's black. That's why. Horror of horrors to white evangelicals.
7
You mean the guy who, for 13 years, sat in the front row of a church where the minister spewed racially divisive rhetoric from the pulpit?
This isn't really an argument about religion. It's about politics. Perhaps if we talk about sex, too, we can simultaneously violate all three of "Mom's Rules" about what subjects should be off limits in polite society.
This isn't really an argument about religion. It's about politics. Perhaps if we talk about sex, too, we can simultaneously violate all three of "Mom's Rules" about what subjects should be off limits in polite society.
1
Ed - How is it racially divisive to point out the evils of discrimination?
It cracks me up the way conservatives want to deny people of color the right to vote etc. and then when it's pointed out how wrong that is, they claim divisiveness.
Divisive is telling one group of people they can't vote, another group they can't marry and yet another group they can't make their own health care decisions. Treating everyone equally isn't being divisive.
It cracks me up the way conservatives want to deny people of color the right to vote etc. and then when it's pointed out how wrong that is, they claim divisiveness.
Divisive is telling one group of people they can't vote, another group they can't marry and yet another group they can't make their own health care decisions. Treating everyone equally isn't being divisive.
5
Mr. Trump is an opportunist; white Evangelicals are hypocrites and both float free of ethical or moral anchors... a match made in heaven (or hell).
24
The short answer is no. As the US becomes more agnostic their priorities become less and less relevant. Add to that the fact that their positions clash with modern "civil" society and their positions becomes increasingly more irrelevant. However, this is true for "classic" evangelical thought, if anything "evangelism" is an amorphous highly adaptable set of "churches" there are now evangelicals that believe in global warming, that believe in gay inclusion etc. So, as religion in general has endured by metamorphosing into something else so will evangelicals.
7
"“I want the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find....."
In the "through the looking glass" world of American Evangelical Christianity, this passes for leadership and moral authority. No wonder young Americans are leaving the church in droves.....
In the "through the looking glass" world of American Evangelical Christianity, this passes for leadership and moral authority. No wonder young Americans are leaving the church in droves.....
42
It's funny and sad at the same time to see the various comments that attempt to argue that Mr. Trump is "more christian" than HRC.
Mr. Trump is the most peculiarly-awful candidate the Republicans have ever run. His foul mouth, puerile sexual disparagements of women and curious hangups (Yes, Donald, women have periods ... what are you, 8 years old?), and generally-public unchristian behavior are making the GOP into a laughing stock, and a many Republicans see the obvious: don't support this guy -- defeat is better than supporting this guy. That doesn't oblige them to like or support HRC.
Those commenting here might reflect upon the question: "why is it that HRC has had the worst opponents the Republicans could put forward?"
Anybody else out there remember Rick Lazio? When Republicans gather to cry in their beer do they mention Rick, the failure who created HRC's political career? Rick got the belated nomination to run because Giuliani abruptly withdrew ... over a too-public and too-messy adultery.
Anybody else wondering if/when Trump will do what he does best ... quit?
Mr. Trump is the most peculiarly-awful candidate the Republicans have ever run. His foul mouth, puerile sexual disparagements of women and curious hangups (Yes, Donald, women have periods ... what are you, 8 years old?), and generally-public unchristian behavior are making the GOP into a laughing stock, and a many Republicans see the obvious: don't support this guy -- defeat is better than supporting this guy. That doesn't oblige them to like or support HRC.
Those commenting here might reflect upon the question: "why is it that HRC has had the worst opponents the Republicans could put forward?"
Anybody else out there remember Rick Lazio? When Republicans gather to cry in their beer do they mention Rick, the failure who created HRC's political career? Rick got the belated nomination to run because Giuliani abruptly withdrew ... over a too-public and too-messy adultery.
Anybody else wondering if/when Trump will do what he does best ... quit?
19
This election is partly about generational change on the Supreme Court.
Over the next two presidential terms we may expect as many as five
new justices. Scalia's replacement. Most likely Clarence Thomas' replacement.
And Ginsburg, 83, Kennedy 80, and Breyer 78. Hillary will have a court
with 7 liberal or moderate justices with just two conservatives, Roberts and Alitto. In contrast, Donald Trump will produce a court with perhaps 7 conservatives and just two surviving liberals i.e. Kagan and Sotomayor.
It is a no brainer. Which court do you want? Trump's court could overturn
Rove vs. Wade, Gay marriage statutes, federal healthcare mandates, affirmative action guidelines, environmental protection laws, voting rights protections, union rights et al.
Hillary's new court would most likely make Roe vs Wade invulnerable, Gay rights invulnerable extending federal protections against LGBT people. They would undoubtedly support environmental laws passed by the executive, federal healthcare mandates, voting rights laws, union representation and bargaining rights, all or most federal mandates for the broad progressive agenda.
So? Just which side are you on?
Over the next two presidential terms we may expect as many as five
new justices. Scalia's replacement. Most likely Clarence Thomas' replacement.
And Ginsburg, 83, Kennedy 80, and Breyer 78. Hillary will have a court
with 7 liberal or moderate justices with just two conservatives, Roberts and Alitto. In contrast, Donald Trump will produce a court with perhaps 7 conservatives and just two surviving liberals i.e. Kagan and Sotomayor.
It is a no brainer. Which court do you want? Trump's court could overturn
Rove vs. Wade, Gay marriage statutes, federal healthcare mandates, affirmative action guidelines, environmental protection laws, voting rights protections, union rights et al.
Hillary's new court would most likely make Roe vs Wade invulnerable, Gay rights invulnerable extending federal protections against LGBT people. They would undoubtedly support environmental laws passed by the executive, federal healthcare mandates, voting rights laws, union representation and bargaining rights, all or most federal mandates for the broad progressive agenda.
So? Just which side are you on?
47
On Your side Orrin, sanity. Please all voters hear this.
5
In my opinion, each of those scenarios (a 7-2 Court) sounds like a dangerous imbalance, and ultimately bad for the country. I don't really care what flavor you are pushing.
Reactively conservative is an old horse that is too weak to carry its load, and isn't likely to cooperate with anything like work. It should be put out to pasture. Wildly progressive is a green-broke horse that eventually takes you over the cliff. It needs to be trained before it is safe to ride or work. Either extreme leads to disappointment.
Reactively conservative is an old horse that is too weak to carry its load, and isn't likely to cooperate with anything like work. It should be put out to pasture. Wildly progressive is a green-broke horse that eventually takes you over the cliff. It needs to be trained before it is safe to ride or work. Either extreme leads to disappointment.
3
I don't think we need to have high intellect or intellectual leanings to be a certain way. I don't think intelligence/intellect has anything to do with Trump's appeal to Evangelicals. It has to do with social emotive responses that motivate behavior. So Evangelicals respond to Trump because they resonate with his emotive rhetoric. He speaks anger, fear, and more importantly, speaks about feeling left out, not belonging (in/to American) anymore. This is what appeals and draws them in...and like other well said responses....the appeal is power -- power over others... not matter what...fear of others who are different...because after all what I BELIEVE is the absolute truth...your truth... your Mexican, Black, Muslin, Buddhist truth is not right..you are wrong, and we are right. Boy this is going to be fun the next few years.
24
So true, Tao,,,, and most unfortunate for America !!!!!
1
Trump successfully leveraged evangelicals' blind faith in their god and projected it into himself. "Blind" is the key term here. No facts are needed.
28
"Rather than trying to defend Mr. Trump’s Christian credentials, Mr. Jeffress bluntly said that in the face of perceived threats facing evangelicals, “I want the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find in that role, and I think that’s where many evangelicals are.”"
I.e.: be AMORAL!
I.e.: be AMORAL!
40
"HOW have white evangelical Protestants — self-described “values voters” — become a forceful bloc of supporters for Donald J. Trump?"
Simple, evangelical "values", in order:
1) Racism
2) Everything else (tied for second).
Trump is their hero.
Simple, evangelical "values", in order:
1) Racism
2) Everything else (tied for second).
Trump is their hero.
11
Is it not a supreme irony for evangelical Christians to look for redemption at the hands of one of the least Christian (i.e., in the embodiment of Christ-like virtues) of candidates? But, then, as a group the evangelicals seem to be, as stated in this solid piece, looking to return to the mythic 1950s, or to have someone "exempt" them from "the new realities." Good luck, America. We'll need it.
3
Through Trump? Wow, that idea is nuts! And thankfully it appears that a lot of evangelicals think it's nuts too:
http://religionnews.com/2016/06/16/white-evangelicals-are-backing-trump-...
"White evangelical Christians, a crucial bloc of Republican voters, are backing likely GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump by a wide margin over Hillary Clinton, but their support is significantly lower than for previous Republican candidates.
That relatively tepid faith-based endorsement could wind up undermining Trump’s chances for victory in November.
...
The survey, released Wednesday (June 15), also showed white evangelicals supporting Trump 62 percent to just 17 percent for Clinton.
That sounds like an impressive lead until you consider that recent GOP presidential candidates have won close to 8 in 10 white evangelical voters, and that Trump’s sky-high negative ratings and vulnerabilities as a volatile, first-time candidate mean he will likely need strong turnout from that base to win.
In the previous three presidential elections, for example, George W. Bush won 79 percent of the white evangelical vote (2004), John McCain won 73 percent (2008), and in 2012 Mitt Romney – the first Mormon to head a major party ticket – also won 79 percent, like Bush."
Evangelicals aren't quite as crazy or hypocritical as this article makes them seem.
http://religionnews.com/2016/06/16/white-evangelicals-are-backing-trump-...
"White evangelical Christians, a crucial bloc of Republican voters, are backing likely GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump by a wide margin over Hillary Clinton, but their support is significantly lower than for previous Republican candidates.
That relatively tepid faith-based endorsement could wind up undermining Trump’s chances for victory in November.
...
The survey, released Wednesday (June 15), also showed white evangelicals supporting Trump 62 percent to just 17 percent for Clinton.
That sounds like an impressive lead until you consider that recent GOP presidential candidates have won close to 8 in 10 white evangelical voters, and that Trump’s sky-high negative ratings and vulnerabilities as a volatile, first-time candidate mean he will likely need strong turnout from that base to win.
In the previous three presidential elections, for example, George W. Bush won 79 percent of the white evangelical vote (2004), John McCain won 73 percent (2008), and in 2012 Mitt Romney – the first Mormon to head a major party ticket – also won 79 percent, like Bush."
Evangelicals aren't quite as crazy or hypocritical as this article makes them seem.
3
Interesting that Mr. Jones uses the word "white" ten times (by count) but cannot quote any of the so-called "white Christians" as using that same pejorative label.
Who's the separatist here?
Who's the separatist here?
"...they (white evangelicals) may find that they have a critical role to play in the revitalization of our civic life."
Oh Dear God, I hope not...
Oh Dear God, I hope not...
20
As a gay white atheist, I'm thrilled by the demise of “white Christian America that dominated American culture until the last decade". That world did nothing but oppress me and everyone else who didn't fit their mold. Our country is a better place without them.
21
In reply to Michael Andersen-Andrade, As a straight white atheist, I am in agreement. Religious tribalism, in the U.S. and around the world, is an abomination. Oh, for non-religion in government. Are you listening, Supreme Court Justices, Senators, House Representatives? Justice, without fear of the NRA and other religionists.
8
Jesus Christ is our only hope for ALL Christians and any Christian that thinks that Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton will really save our country is leaning on the flesh and not the spirit
2
It seems to me that a belief in a deity is one thing. But the deity is NOT going to be living in the White House, we are going to have to accept that. Therefore, we have no choice but the two choices we are facing. And any deity that believes in what That Man is saying about issues pertaining to immigration, women, disabled people, Muslims and Hispanics would not be worthy of living in the White House.
4
Unfortunately Mr. Cruz, although clearly of predominant Caucasian blood, had " Cuban " in him as well as the last name of Cruz. For those " white evangelicals " who are also somewhat prejudiced against Hispanics and immigrants like Cruz" father, a vote for Trump made more sense to them. As a Latin American evangelical, I say " shame to you ", but I will let God be the judge of their hearts. I also agree with the post by LNL , that the correct term should be the Christian Right , because many true evangelicals disagree with them. Add me to that group.
3
"But Mr. Trump won evangelicals over by explicitly addressing their deeper sense of loss. Mr. Cruz assured evangelicals that he’d secure them exemptions from the new realities, while Mr. Trump promised to reinstate their central place in the country. Mr. Cruz offered to negotiate a respectable retreat strategy, while Mr. Trump vowed to turn back the clock." WRONG.
Mr Cruz lost because of his Ethnicity. He belongs to the same group that speaks that foreign language that two-thirds of Evangelicals are bothered by.
If given a choice between a Black/Hispanic Jesus and Donald Trump, White Evangelicals will vote for Trump.
Mr Cruz lost because of his Ethnicity. He belongs to the same group that speaks that foreign language that two-thirds of Evangelicals are bothered by.
If given a choice between a Black/Hispanic Jesus and Donald Trump, White Evangelicals will vote for Trump.
13
TWO Corinthians, enough said!
6
I truly find it sad that so many well meaning people are led astray by their own ministers for their own political purposes. Evangelical Christians often ask themselves the question, "What would Jesus do?" In the case of the current election campaign, I think Jesus' answer would be quite clear. He would NOT vote for Donald Trump!
15
The group that rose to power as the Silent Majority is now the Squawking Minority pulling any semblance of dignity down the political drain with them. Their fate is sealed by the fact they are comfortable calling themselves white evangelicals but I can only imagine their uproar if another group entitled itself the black or brown evangelicals.
9
The hypocrisy evidenced by the Evangelicals is breathtaking.
Would Jesus endorse Donald Trump?
Would Jesus endorse Donald Trump?
19
As they say in Australia, "Thank God America got the Puritans and we got the convicts."
39
The evangelical crowd gets used by the Republican Party every election.
First, they're vulnerable to being duped -- though America is more than 90 percent Christian, they feel they're being persecuted.
Second, it takes no conviction (apparently) to stand before them and promise them the world.
Third, what evangelicals want isn't conservative -- conservatism is less government, live and let live, not imposing one's ostensible morals on others.
Finally, they're an easy group to make promises to, but their issues are too divisive to implement. So every four years they jump through hoops and land in the mud.
This time around, it's the Velveeta Raccoon holding the hoop and that makes their delusions that he supports their causes profoundly pathetic.
First, they're vulnerable to being duped -- though America is more than 90 percent Christian, they feel they're being persecuted.
Second, it takes no conviction (apparently) to stand before them and promise them the world.
Third, what evangelicals want isn't conservative -- conservatism is less government, live and let live, not imposing one's ostensible morals on others.
Finally, they're an easy group to make promises to, but their issues are too divisive to implement. So every four years they jump through hoops and land in the mud.
This time around, it's the Velveeta Raccoon holding the hoop and that makes their delusions that he supports their causes profoundly pathetic.
32
Oh please. The creature-candidates affections (affectations) turn on a dime. If evangelicals think he will protect them from the big, evil liberals, they are even dumber that imagination permits.
3
“I’ll tell you one thing: I get elected president, we’re going to be saying ‘Merry Christmas’ again.” He added that Christianity will be resurgent “because if I’m there, you’re going to have plenty of power — you don’t need anybody else.”
I'll tell YOU one thing, Donald. No President has the power to dictate to any citizen what that citizen should think, or say, on matters of religion. This is not Nuremberg.
I hope the Clinton campaign is paying attention. A man who talks like this doesn't understand anything about the First Amendment. Or our country's history. Or what the word "theocracy" means. A man who talks like this should be hounded publicly, relentlessly, until he runs for cover.
I'll tell YOU one thing, Donald. No President has the power to dictate to any citizen what that citizen should think, or say, on matters of religion. This is not Nuremberg.
I hope the Clinton campaign is paying attention. A man who talks like this doesn't understand anything about the First Amendment. Or our country's history. Or what the word "theocracy" means. A man who talks like this should be hounded publicly, relentlessly, until he runs for cover.
20
...the anger, anxiety and insecurity many contemporary white evangelicals feel are better understood as a response to an internal identity crisis precipitated by the recent demise of.......
“white Christian America,”
There you go, those three little words explain it all.
“white Christian America,”
There you go, those three little words explain it all.
5
Left out 'male' - it's white Christian male America -
1
Interesting. But in a article about Christians, not a word about whether the teachings of Trump (and, for that matter, those of Dobson, Huckabee, Jeffress, et al.) are consistent with the teachings of Jesus.
9
Something Evangelicals Ought To Be Thinking Hard About:
Somewhere right now in America, Donald Trump is sitting in a hotel room with his wife, his kids, his son-in-law and his advisers deciding who the next Vice President of the United States is going to be.
Somewhere right now in America, Donald Trump is sitting in a hotel room with his wife, his kids, his son-in-law and his advisers deciding who the next Vice President of the United States is going to be.
3
This election is looking like it's truly the last gasp of the once dominant Christian Right, which is as it should be. The Christian Right cannot deal with anything that doesn't resemble 1950s white America, where blacks were on the other side of the railroad tracks, gays in the closet, and women in the kitchen. The more delusional of them think that a Trump presidency will give them carte blanche to reshape the nation in their image, but they are sorely mistaken. The majority of the population has thankfully moved on from their authoritarian belief system.
20
Edited. Sorry for fingers that engage before brain fully attentive.
Oh please. The creature-candidate's affections (affectations) change with every new script handed to him. If evangelicals think he will protect them from the big, evil liberals out to get them (really?), they are even dumber than imagination permits.
Oh please. The creature-candidate's affections (affectations) change with every new script handed to him. If evangelicals think he will protect them from the big, evil liberals out to get them (really?), they are even dumber than imagination permits.
18
Could James Dobsom and his followers be bigger hypocrites? Actually, it isn't possible. Donald Trump is a 100 percent scumball human being. For them to place their mantle of respectability over his pathetic shoulders is the definition of cynical self-interest. Christ would not comdone their behavior and would call them out - just like he did the Pharisees in the Temple.
21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." Matthew 7:21. Saying you are a Christian doesn't make you one. Actions count.
14
Anyone who says they know the will of god is laughably narcissistic. That includes whoever wrote the "holy" book you happen to read. If god is really all-powerful, the idea that any human could even comprehend his/her will is beyond arrogant.
Just treat others as you would be treated. The rest is pure arrogance and fear of the unknown and unknowable.
Just treat others as you would be treated. The rest is pure arrogance and fear of the unknown and unknowable.
26
Evangelicals wake up. Trump will use you to get elected and then betray you because he has no ethics or Christian values and you know that from looking at his dumping of two wives when a younger and prettier model came along, and by his betrayal of contractors and employees that are well documented.
22
These are the same dangerous people who constantly bleat that our nation has a true separation of church and state and tolerance for other faiths...so long as they are of a Protestant evangelical kind.
15
There's a tendency to lump all evangelical Christians into one monolithic block. We do not all see eye-to-eye on many issues. What we have in common is a belief in Jesus Christ as the son of God and a desire to spread the good news of his death and resurrection as a payment for our sins. I am a Christian and personally, I cannot fathom how I could or why I would vote for Mr. Trump. But I do pray for all our leaders, and that God would give them the wisdom to lead in these very difficult times.
10
I'm sorry but I don't see a true belief in Jesus Christ in any of the right wing politicians like Cruz, Huckabee et al.
3
Uh, ever notice that we are not all Christians in this country?
2
"Jesus Christ's death and resurrection as a payment for our sins."
How does that work exactly? I've never heard anyone offer a satisfactory explanation.
How does that work exactly? I've never heard anyone offer a satisfactory explanation.
1
In the many comments I read, some people mentioned the reality of the 1950's. They left out one thing: the atmosphere of fear and political oppression. We were all terrified of The Bomb, and we who were not conformists were terrorized by self-described "anti-Communists" like Joseph McCarthy who persecuted anyone with an independent thought to the left of corporate capitalism.
The author also seems to have forgotten that Catholics were not fully included in the white "Christian" dominance.
The author also seems to have forgotten that Catholics were not fully included in the white "Christian" dominance.
11
With the likes of multiple married and/or serial adulterers like Ronald Reagan, John McCain, Newt Gingrich, Rudy Giuliani, Rush Limbaugh, Donald Trump, Mark Sanford, Britt Hume, John Edwards, Bill Clinton and Glenn Beck who is a evangelical Protestant Christian is a debatable question.
When the evangelical identication falls along the physically identifiable imaginary colored "black" and "white" socioeconomic political educational historical American lines then faith is not the issue. When partisan political party affiliation divides and defines the evangelical from others then faith is not relevant.
When the evangelical identication falls along the physically identifiable imaginary colored "black" and "white" socioeconomic political educational historical American lines then faith is not the issue. When partisan political party affiliation divides and defines the evangelical from others then faith is not relevant.
3
It's hard not to see a complete contempt for the constitution by a large portion of the white evangelical community, despite the fact that they fully wrap themselves in it.
It is not sufficient that they simply live their own lives along their own religious principles, which i often find hard to reconcile with the compassion or philosophy of Jesus. Rather, they insist other Americans adhere to their principles, lest their rights are violated. . . a perverse reasoning that I'm sure the founding fathers were keen to avoid through the explicit separation of church and state.
As long as Donald Trump promises to impose evangelical principles on all - which i doubt he ultimately would do - nothing else he says or does - no matter how absurd - is relevant to them.
It is not sufficient that they simply live their own lives along their own religious principles, which i often find hard to reconcile with the compassion or philosophy of Jesus. Rather, they insist other Americans adhere to their principles, lest their rights are violated. . . a perverse reasoning that I'm sure the founding fathers were keen to avoid through the explicit separation of church and state.
As long as Donald Trump promises to impose evangelical principles on all - which i doubt he ultimately would do - nothing else he says or does - no matter how absurd - is relevant to them.
9
It is quite obvious that these "Evangelicals" (i.e., values voters) are a group of hypocrites. They choose issues of convenience to exploit while ignoring the teaching of Christ when inconvenient. For them to support a lying carnival barker who deceives low income people, reneges on his commitments, and serially cheats on his wives is almost humorous, if it weren't so serious.
15
I'm guessing that most of us never stopped saying "Merry Christmas", although Trump may never have started.
When an entire segment of the media is dedicated to frightening the "low information" voter with careful framing of issues, selective reporting, and outright lies, well supported by clergy and other authoritarian figures, it is not a surprise that many feel under attack, and in the need of a strong protector.
Sadly, the very team who generates the feeling of helplessness is the team who has systematically makes life worse for the same low information group by wage busting, union busting, building factories offshore, and disproportionately taxing the middle class. Paul Ryan, Cruz, et al, want to strongly reduce taxes on foreign income, capital gains, and high-end earners, while adding a regressive value added tax and cutting Social Security, and Medicare. These are the real threats.
The "Merry Christmas lie" is just one example.
When an entire segment of the media is dedicated to frightening the "low information" voter with careful framing of issues, selective reporting, and outright lies, well supported by clergy and other authoritarian figures, it is not a surprise that many feel under attack, and in the need of a strong protector.
Sadly, the very team who generates the feeling of helplessness is the team who has systematically makes life worse for the same low information group by wage busting, union busting, building factories offshore, and disproportionately taxing the middle class. Paul Ryan, Cruz, et al, want to strongly reduce taxes on foreign income, capital gains, and high-end earners, while adding a regressive value added tax and cutting Social Security, and Medicare. These are the real threats.
The "Merry Christmas lie" is just one example.
17
I suppose Dobson would endorse Satan if it would mean keeping a moderate Dem out of the White House.
23
He may be doing so already… .If I believed in that sort of thing, Trump would be my pick of someone who had sold his soul.
5
I was Evangelical born, raised, ordained and married...until I was 30 yrs old and went through a divorce. Evangelicals are a tribe with shared values, rituals, initiations, and sacred truths. They are instructed to "stand apart" from the secular evil world around them. Anyone who supports their worldview and values is welcome in the tribe. Even Trump.
The only way most people from any tribe change their thoughts or actions is to have their personal world upended by experience - a divorce, death, gay child, victimized, etc. Until then the more society pushes against their world, the more rigid they become. Rationality is not important, loyalty to God, The Word, and The Church is.
You will never convince a tribe member to change beliefs until they are personally open to change, which happens through personal pain. In spite of the obvious problems, the evangelical culture is comfortable, caring, and supportive. What's not to like?
What might spark change? Pain, shame, guilt, and fear. We need to talk to the evangelical's worldview emotionally, not rationally.
The only way most people from any tribe change their thoughts or actions is to have their personal world upended by experience - a divorce, death, gay child, victimized, etc. Until then the more society pushes against their world, the more rigid they become. Rationality is not important, loyalty to God, The Word, and The Church is.
You will never convince a tribe member to change beliefs until they are personally open to change, which happens through personal pain. In spite of the obvious problems, the evangelical culture is comfortable, caring, and supportive. What's not to like?
What might spark change? Pain, shame, guilt, and fear. We need to talk to the evangelical's worldview emotionally, not rationally.
12
This is fascinating. I grew up in a very conservative Catholic household, it was rational thought coupled with hard data that got me to leave the Republican party and I still think that's the way to go. Emotions are too unreliable and quick to change.
2
Talk emotionally? That's the problem. Emotions have displaced intelligence and rationality in the evangelicals. They should be renamed evengeancecals.
2
These evangelicals have made things abundantly clear. It's not about Christian values. It's about power. They want the sword to yield and the power to wield it. How Christian.
19
All kind of religion should be out of politics no matter what. The radical evangelicals is the problem in america and around the world when they want to infringe and make their believes and values above everyone and everything, starting with evolution. The support for Trump proves the kind of values they really have.
14
Perhaps the foundational premise of always being persecuted (real or imagined) caused their behavior(s) to be strikingly out of touch with millions of Americans.
Perhaps its their hatred of others not like them in defiance of the teachings of Christ.
Perhaps people in this country want the religious to keep it to themselves and not try and tell EVERYONE what to do?
Perhaps we are evolving as a species and mythology does not supersede rational thought?
Perhaps its their hatred of others not like them in defiance of the teachings of Christ.
Perhaps people in this country want the religious to keep it to themselves and not try and tell EVERYONE what to do?
Perhaps we are evolving as a species and mythology does not supersede rational thought?
10
Evangelicals have no sense of irony, voting for the devilish character because liberal ideas are the path to sin.
17
Evangelical Christian leaders are greedy for fame, money and power. They love money more than bible and I am not surprised that they love and respect Trump more than Jesus Christ.
30
As a white Christian I am of the opinion if the Christian faith is to a force in the future it has to change it's message, from the hate of others by TV con artists (to get money) to be inclusive of all as expressed time and time again in the New Testament and also in the way our founding fathers expressed how a government should treat subjects.
10
We are not a monarchy. We have 'citizens', not 'subjects'. And our "founding fathers" were absolutely clear on what those 'citizens' had for 'rights'.
If they were male, a male of property, then they were in. 'Others', women and slaves and Native Americans, were not. Even when slavery was ended, it was only ended for male slaves. Female slaves only gained the status of a regular female, that is, a female who had NO standing within the Constitution, not even to vote. "Women will be silent," Paul said. Our 'founding fathers', though most were Deists, were otherwise Christian. There would be no separation of church and state between THEIR ears. That continues today. It was the Christian Moral Majority that insisted that Ronald Reagan get rid of that Equal Rights Amendment, the one that finally included females, all females fully within the Constitution. It was gotten rid of. Until Christians, all Christians, demand that the Constitution fully, legally include females then they are doomed. We have no need of such nonsense. It is archaic, insulting, and simple ugly bigotry. I suggest that you call your representatives in North Carolina and demand that they vote for full inclusion of female citizens within the Constitution of the United States of America. In fact, North Carolina was one of the states that refused to ratify the ERA. Start there.
If they were male, a male of property, then they were in. 'Others', women and slaves and Native Americans, were not. Even when slavery was ended, it was only ended for male slaves. Female slaves only gained the status of a regular female, that is, a female who had NO standing within the Constitution, not even to vote. "Women will be silent," Paul said. Our 'founding fathers', though most were Deists, were otherwise Christian. There would be no separation of church and state between THEIR ears. That continues today. It was the Christian Moral Majority that insisted that Ronald Reagan get rid of that Equal Rights Amendment, the one that finally included females, all females fully within the Constitution. It was gotten rid of. Until Christians, all Christians, demand that the Constitution fully, legally include females then they are doomed. We have no need of such nonsense. It is archaic, insulting, and simple ugly bigotry. I suggest that you call your representatives in North Carolina and demand that they vote for full inclusion of female citizens within the Constitution of the United States of America. In fact, North Carolina was one of the states that refused to ratify the ERA. Start there.
5
From the piece:
" Rather than trying to defend Mr. Trump’s Christian credentials, Mr. Jeffress bluntly said that in the face of perceived threats facing evangelicals, “I want the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find in that role, and I think that’s where many evangelicals are.” "
...can some of my fundamentalist Christian friends describe what is Christian about these remarks?
" Rather than trying to defend Mr. Trump’s Christian credentials, Mr. Jeffress bluntly said that in the face of perceived threats facing evangelicals, “I want the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find in that role, and I think that’s where many evangelicals are.” "
...can some of my fundamentalist Christian friends describe what is Christian about these remarks?
45
They cannot. At least without sounding even more hypocritical. What little moral and political capital the Religious Right had is gone.
8
Many of the people I have respected most in life turned out to be Christians. I say 'turned out' because I only realized they are Christians by observing their actions, how they treat others in the absence of proclamations, posturing, and ulterior socio-political motives.
4
I'm kind of curious why the author might consider that 'white' evangelical Christians as different from all evangelical Christians?
Are there different biblical passages? Do non-whites worship differently, view their Christian obligations differently, or have different hopes and aspirations for their children and loved ones?
To the best of my knowledge of the Good Book, all are equal in the eyes of the Lord. Maybe non-white Christians (and non-Christians) are somehow separate but equal.
Are there different biblical passages? Do non-whites worship differently, view their Christian obligations differently, or have different hopes and aspirations for their children and loved ones?
To the best of my knowledge of the Good Book, all are equal in the eyes of the Lord. Maybe non-white Christians (and non-Christians) are somehow separate but equal.
1
What is wrong with saying 'Merry Christmas' when appropriate, I, although bordering on atheism, freely use this expression to anyone I know who celebrates this holiday, religiously or culturally.
But in our nation any number of people do not do so, and therefore I tend to use the neutral 'Have a nice holiday', when in doubt, as, while for many a religious celebration, in the U.S. it is most certainly a national holiday.
Oh and as to your lead question as to the re-ascendance of White (or for that matter any color) so called 'Conservative Christians' all one can really say is I certainly hope not'!
But in our nation any number of people do not do so, and therefore I tend to use the neutral 'Have a nice holiday', when in doubt, as, while for many a religious celebration, in the U.S. it is most certainly a national holiday.
Oh and as to your lead question as to the re-ascendance of White (or for that matter any color) so called 'Conservative Christians' all one can really say is I certainly hope not'!
5
There is nothing wrong with saying Merry Christmas, there is everything wrong with someone claiming they will use the office of President to force people to say it.
212
I live in the NE part of the country. We are a very diverse lot here, and many times I ask if a person is Christian before saying Merry Christmas. More often than not, when a person indicates they are of a different faith, they also say, it's okay to say Merry Christmas to them. But why would I do that? As a Christian, my rights are not trampled on one bit because I refuse to assume everyone else believes what I believe. These people have NEVER seen or witnessed anything that even comes close to religion persecution. Give it a rest already.
13
A perfect match--evangelicals and Trump all insist on being both the bully and the victim--at the same time.
That and a convenient lack of integrity, morals, scruples or ethics when it comes to getting what they want.
That and a convenient lack of integrity, morals, scruples or ethics when it comes to getting what they want.
16
If white evangelical Christians are comfortable only when they're in a majority with other whites and evangelicals, have they earned the right to be called a Christian? Are they truly followers of Christ?
7
A "baby Christian"--of 70-years-old??? ...Incredulous! The devil has spoken, and his name is James Dobson.
15
History often has recurrent themes like xenophobia but the flow of time goes onward and cannot be turned back. Successful civilizations adapt and prosper; fail civilizations wall themselves off and fossilize.
8
As a liberal who has friendships with conservative Christian, I have found with 99% of them that they are voting for Trump for one of two reasons. Either they are one issue voters (most commonly against abortion rights), or they have bought into the rhetoric that anyone is better than Hillary.
8
I am a Catholic educated and raised from grade school through grad school in Benedictine and Jesuit schools. I do not want to be considered an evangelical because that insults my intelligence. I do not believe in abortion but do not think the woman who is forced into that situation is doomed to hell. I am liberal and that does not conflict with my religion. A lot of Catholics like me view with horror the holier-than-thou edicts that evangelicals try to force on everybody in this country.
12
The embrace of Donald Trump by the Christian Right (they should not be called "evangelicals," because many true evangelicals disagree with them) can be summed up even more simply in three words: The Supreme Court.
Why have so many anti-abortion, anti-Planned Parenthood, even anti-contraception laws been passed by so many Republican state legislatures in the last two years? Now that gay marriage has been legalized and they've pretty much lost the gay equality battle, the only political payback Republican legislators can give them is on the abortion front.
If (when) Clinton is elected, there will be a 5-4 pro-choice majority on the Supreme Court ready to roll back most of these state laws as unconstitutional, as has already happened once. Even more importantly, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who's 83, is almost sure to retire in the next four years. If either Breyer, who's 77, or Kennedy, who's 80, dies or retires as well, then Clinton will have the opportunity to appoint a pro-choice, pro-gay rights majority on the Supreme Court that will last for at least 20 years.
The political power of the Christian Right, which only goes back to the mid-70s and has been held in place by the Rehnquist and then the Roberts Court, will be totally lost. And without the ability to deliver political promises to the foot soldiers of the Christian Right, I wonder what will happen to Republican Party as well.
Why have so many anti-abortion, anti-Planned Parenthood, even anti-contraception laws been passed by so many Republican state legislatures in the last two years? Now that gay marriage has been legalized and they've pretty much lost the gay equality battle, the only political payback Republican legislators can give them is on the abortion front.
If (when) Clinton is elected, there will be a 5-4 pro-choice majority on the Supreme Court ready to roll back most of these state laws as unconstitutional, as has already happened once. Even more importantly, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who's 83, is almost sure to retire in the next four years. If either Breyer, who's 77, or Kennedy, who's 80, dies or retires as well, then Clinton will have the opportunity to appoint a pro-choice, pro-gay rights majority on the Supreme Court that will last for at least 20 years.
The political power of the Christian Right, which only goes back to the mid-70s and has been held in place by the Rehnquist and then the Roberts Court, will be totally lost. And without the ability to deliver political promises to the foot soldiers of the Christian Right, I wonder what will happen to Republican Party as well.
13
Refusing to allow conservative white Christians to force everyone else to live by their rules is not discrimination. Equality that, well, gives equality to people who aren't white or Christian is not discrimation, it's equality. If someone feels like something has been taken away from them maybe it has, but the thing that has been taken is "Privilege." Losing privilege feels like oppression to some people, but the reality is that just because someone is white and Christian does not make them better than all those other people they feel threatened by. It makes them equal, and they need to recognize it and get over it.
17
Of course white so-called evangelical "Christians" feel threatened! They have been working for decades now to weasel their way into political power - they aren't content to go about worshipping as they please,they want control over the rest of us! Most of their "control" issues center around our personal lives: birth control, gay marriage, etc., and when they don't "win" they claim persecution!
34
When you mix religion and politics, you get politics.
39
I beg to differ. You get *BAD* politics.
7
Good to hear that evangelicals don't actually think the teachings of Christianity have any bearing on how they live their lives. Just raw hatred and bigotry is all that is needed.
34
They loved Dubya also, and that's enough for me.
2
Trump has coned them (Trump a "baby Christian" LOL) Trump, like religion, cones the people who want to be coned.
16
The following 2 phrases from this article pretty much say it all:
“I want the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find" & "if I’m there, you’re going to have plenty of power — you don’t need anybody else"
Organized religion is overwhelmingly about one thing and one thing only - "my god is the most badass god around, and he's going to kick your butts and put me on top". That's why evangelicals (and his other supporters) love Trump - he's the most badass candidate out there.
“I want the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find" & "if I’m there, you’re going to have plenty of power — you don’t need anybody else"
Organized religion is overwhelmingly about one thing and one thing only - "my god is the most badass god around, and he's going to kick your butts and put me on top". That's why evangelicals (and his other supporters) love Trump - he's the most badass candidate out there.
27
It's about power and money, and vulnerable, ignorant people who will follow a con man/woman. Religion gets more stupid every year.
11
Trump just realized that he needed to pander to this key GOP group in order to secure the nomination; he actually doesn't possess a single spiritual bone in his body....
And to the wingnuts and conservatives out there, don't forget we have a separation of Church and State among our amendments, as you cherry pick through them to support your right-wing, hate-filled agenda.
And to the wingnuts and conservatives out there, don't forget we have a separation of Church and State among our amendments, as you cherry pick through them to support your right-wing, hate-filled agenda.
38
It's probably the largest group he can count on. Nobody else wants to admit they want anything to do with Drumpf. Evangelicals have shown over decades that absolutely nothing embarrasses them.
9
Trump and the White Evangelicals are perfect for each other. Both having lost their moral compass long ago could do the rest of us a great service by getting lost somewhere in a vast wilderness. Their work here is done, displaying for all to see what is not right and moral and how to forsake your humanity in your lust for money and power.
43
The problem with "white evangelical Christians" is that they have abandoned Christian faith and piety. Their religion is defined by who they hate, gays, those who support a woman's right to choose, most people of color and certainly, who is a committed Christian. Their fervor is energized by fear and hatred, not the love of God through Jesus Christ. They have abandoned rationalism and eschewed empiricism. They cynically and hypocritically say they hate the sin and not the sinner. Hatred is hatred and it is for God to judge, not man. Jesus taught us to love one another and to remove the log from our own eye before we remove the splinter from our brother's eye. Rather than love, grace, and service to those who suffer, they choose anger, hatred and fear. I wonder what St. Paul would have to say in a contemporary letter to the (conservative evangelical) church in America today? Nothing good.
93
Donald J. Trump is a "committed Christian" if by joining those words you mean power, privilege and the bottomless greed required to make money your god.
3
Evangelical whites may well be less than 50 percent. Frankly, I am surprised that as many as 45 percent are considered to be "white evangelicals." That number seems awfully high.
Jones' cited stats skew the reader to believe that "Christian values" now make up less than 50% of Americans. A recent ABC News poll just demonstrated that 83% of Americans self-identify as Christians, with 13% identifying as atheist or agnostic... meaning that all other religious faiths in America (Jewish, Muslim et al) collectively only constitute 4% of the whole.
Perhaps Trump is the "great white hope" or the "great evangelical hope" to some. I don't see it that way. Something tells me that a higher number of people who choose vote for Trump may do so as a protest against Hillary Clinton. So, it isn't a core value that white American needs to take back its formal lock on all power and authority. It IS a core value that the People should be able to trust their leaders more than they trust Mrs. Clinton.
I'll throw another survey at you. In a recent Reuters survey, Mrs. Clinton fails significantly on the trust factor. Counting only self-identifying Democrats, a higher number (38%) distrust her more than those who trust her (35%). If you count all American voters, the number is 83% who distrust her - more in line with the self-identifying Christians in the country.
That is... trustworthiness and truth-telling are considered good Christian values. Even Democrats agree.
Jones' cited stats skew the reader to believe that "Christian values" now make up less than 50% of Americans. A recent ABC News poll just demonstrated that 83% of Americans self-identify as Christians, with 13% identifying as atheist or agnostic... meaning that all other religious faiths in America (Jewish, Muslim et al) collectively only constitute 4% of the whole.
Perhaps Trump is the "great white hope" or the "great evangelical hope" to some. I don't see it that way. Something tells me that a higher number of people who choose vote for Trump may do so as a protest against Hillary Clinton. So, it isn't a core value that white American needs to take back its formal lock on all power and authority. It IS a core value that the People should be able to trust their leaders more than they trust Mrs. Clinton.
I'll throw another survey at you. In a recent Reuters survey, Mrs. Clinton fails significantly on the trust factor. Counting only self-identifying Democrats, a higher number (38%) distrust her more than those who trust her (35%). If you count all American voters, the number is 83% who distrust her - more in line with the self-identifying Christians in the country.
That is... trustworthiness and truth-telling are considered good Christian values. Even Democrats agree.
5
Nice try but Trump has a worse track record than Hillary when it comes to lying.
24
And the driving issue for white men (and the women who love them or are abused by them) is that they can't tolerate the thought of a woman being President! Imagine, a woman in charge! How threatening is that to the white male ego....?
7
Still though: Crooked Hillary. Cant get around that.
I am an evangelical protestant and I believe that what is currently happening in America is a good thing. Christianity in America has, to a large extent, become a culture and not a spiritual pursuit. It is tragic to me that the current evangelical leadership is supporting Trump. I see a parallel to the time of Jesus when the pharisees allied with the Romans so that they could hold onto their power. We need to turn away from worldly desires such as money and power and instead move towards the truth of love and joy of God.
49
Interesting insight provided by this op-ed. My takeaway is that white evangelicals haven't deceived themselves into believing that Trump is a pure and true Christian. They know he's a junk yard dog. What they like about him is that he is *their* junk yard dog.
23
My family came over on the Mayflower so we have been around awhile. I say Vive La Difference! Let all come to our great nation. The faces of America are changing and that's a good thing. It is time for America to change our systemic and old and racist institutions and laws. We could look to Australia for inspiration. After a mass shooting 6 years ago, Australians were appropriately so outraged that they as a Nation got down to the business of changing their gun laws. It took them 2/3 years of back and forth debate and discussion. Eventually new laws were written then voted on. The country has not had a mass shooting since. We as Americans could look to the future and become excited and willing to enter into a national discussion on racism in our country in all of its manifestations. As President Johnson said we could 'sit down crack some heads and write some laws". It's called negotiation. If we truly want a free and equal society we could change and be brave like the Australians. Our we can remain fearful and divided. The world has changed. America has changed. Let's embrace finally the new America and go forth with justice and equality FOR ALL.
17
Amen.
1
That is what all these angry white, mostly male Trumpites represent, let's get back to the good old days. Basically, when white was the accepted dominant gender. It wasn't the good old days for many other groups. It's all a matter of perspective, but this groups seemingly inability to empathize and truly feel a part of all humanity is a disturbing trend.
12
It is astounding to me that Trump has the support of evangelicals. They wouldn't even turn up to vote in 2012 because they said Romney was not religious enough. They get behind a lunatic who is no more religious than my dog?!
31
"Can the era of white Protestant dominance in America be recovered?"
No. For a time, the plutocracy can stand in its stead, but that too will pass, as more non-WASPs join it. The WASP ascendancy has been a fact of life since the beginning, when the Puritans came here to "worship God as they thought right and prevent others from doing the same." However, it has been slowly crumbling since the later 1800s, all to the good as I see it. Without the contribution of non-WASP immigrants, this country would have been stagnant and incapable of what we accomplished in the 20th century. Resistance to diversity would be lethal in the 21st.
It is sad that the remnants of the WASP ascendancy cannot be satisfied with the contribution of our language and constitution, and move ahead.
No. For a time, the plutocracy can stand in its stead, but that too will pass, as more non-WASPs join it. The WASP ascendancy has been a fact of life since the beginning, when the Puritans came here to "worship God as they thought right and prevent others from doing the same." However, it has been slowly crumbling since the later 1800s, all to the good as I see it. Without the contribution of non-WASP immigrants, this country would have been stagnant and incapable of what we accomplished in the 20th century. Resistance to diversity would be lethal in the 21st.
It is sad that the remnants of the WASP ascendancy cannot be satisfied with the contribution of our language and constitution, and move ahead.
12
An illustration of just what kind of values these "values voters" have.
21
Know why the "Conservative"™ brand and media like the term "Evangelicals"? Because it refers to religious beliefs without reminding either the public or the believers that they're supposed to be Christian, as the vast majority of American Evangelicals are.
One does not have to study Trump for long to discern Mr Trump is a Mammonite, not a Christian. Mr Trump worships money and power over all else. He has, many times, professed his love of money and his desire for more "without any good reason or need for more" he has confessed.
This is just one data point in the case that proves "Conservative"™ brand values are not Christian values.
One does not have to study Trump for long to discern Mr Trump is a Mammonite, not a Christian. Mr Trump worships money and power over all else. He has, many times, professed his love of money and his desire for more "without any good reason or need for more" he has confessed.
This is just one data point in the case that proves "Conservative"™ brand values are not Christian values.
25
"The former presidential candidate Mike Huckabee ... checked the “family values” box by testifying to Mr. Trump’s closeness to his adult children. Mr. Huckabee described their relationship as “one of the most admirable I’ve ever seen from any father with children.”"
I actually find his relationship to his children a bit puzzling more than admirable. Have his kids been brainwashed to believe that their philandering father's obsession with trading in wives every decade or so is actually a good thing? Or, more cynically, have they realized that they need to butter up their dad to get access to Trump advantages?
I actually find his relationship to his children a bit puzzling more than admirable. Have his kids been brainwashed to believe that their philandering father's obsession with trading in wives every decade or so is actually a good thing? Or, more cynically, have they realized that they need to butter up their dad to get access to Trump advantages?
37
And didn't he want to 'date' Ivanka if she wasn't his daughter? That's an admirable father? I think that's a felony in most states, isn't it?
3
Or to get jobs in a Trump administration. This used to be called nepotism and was not considered honorable.
3
Nowadays, it's consider hunky dory to do almost anything for money, including selling one's soul.
3
Heaven spare us from the 'Jellies.... Freedom of Religion should also include Freedom From Religion. No one who abdicates his obligation to think for himself should have a hand in governing the USA. Look only to Saudi Arabia and neighboring countries to see what happens when God, or Allah, or whatever, becomes the ruler of the land.
32
Dave--Well said. Thanks.
3
Evangelicals supporting Trump? Why am I not surprised? These people possess a great love of the stupid and are as inexorably drawn to the con artist as a moth is to a flame. Perhaps the only emotion they feel more strongly than this love is a hatred of those who do not succumb to the con. Sadly for the rest of us, they are a dead weight on humanity, having learned nothing, absolutely nothing, from 500+ years of science, philosophy, and the arts. If the world goes up in nuclear smoke, it is a good bet it will be because of them.
John Oliver is just the latest person to point out what an absolute farce and scam the evangelism business is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUndxpbufkg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwkqh3lCgvw
John Oliver is just the latest person to point out what an absolute farce and scam the evangelism business is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUndxpbufkg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwkqh3lCgvw
38
There was an old black man who cared for the physical structure of an all white Southern church in a small rural town.
He worked 6 days a week repairing the roof, and tending the furnace, among many other chores.
On Sundays he would sit on the porch of the church listening to the choir and lamenting to himself that he was not welcomed into the church.
The pastor had told him many times that he was not welcomed into the church.
One day as he sat feeling sorrow at being so excluded he looked up to see Jesus sitting next to him on the step.
"My friend," Jesus said, "what makes you so sad?"
The old man told Jesus that he was sad because he was not welcomed into the church.
Jesus responded, "Well, my friend, they haven't welcomed me into their church for a long time, either."
He worked 6 days a week repairing the roof, and tending the furnace, among many other chores.
On Sundays he would sit on the porch of the church listening to the choir and lamenting to himself that he was not welcomed into the church.
The pastor had told him many times that he was not welcomed into the church.
One day as he sat feeling sorrow at being so excluded he looked up to see Jesus sitting next to him on the step.
"My friend," Jesus said, "what makes you so sad?"
The old man told Jesus that he was sad because he was not welcomed into the church.
Jesus responded, "Well, my friend, they haven't welcomed me into their church for a long time, either."
18
A good friend of mine reminds me, every so often, that "The Christian Right frequently is neither."
8
"By most measures, Ted Cruz, the son of an evangelical pastor and himself a Southern Baptist, should have been the evangelicals’ presidential candidate in 2016. But Mr. Trump won evangelicals over by explicitly addressing their deeper sense of loss."
No, Mr. Trump won evangelicals over by being really white as opposed to Cuban-American white like Mr. Cruz. Much of America is not familiar with or does not understand the concept of a white Hispanic so all Mr. Trump had to do is hint that Sen. Cruz wasn't really an American. His followers heard the dog whistle and Sen. Cruz's carefully cultivated religious credentials went right out the window with that group.
Same with Ben Carson, who as a Seventh-Day Adventist should have and initially did strike a chord with evangelicals. But all Mr. Trump had to do is say: "Can you believe it? Nobody believes I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. Boy, that's down the middle of the road folks, in all fairness. I mean, Seventh-day Adventist, I don't know about. I just don't know about."
Goodbye, Ben Carson. Mr. Trump knocked them both out because he knows that in the end, being white-white - not Hispanic white and certainly not black - is all that matters for these supposedly pious folks. Mr. Trump can shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue - as he said, remember that? - and the evangelicals will spin it as, "What was he supposed to do? Turn the other cheek?"
No, Mr. Trump won evangelicals over by being really white as opposed to Cuban-American white like Mr. Cruz. Much of America is not familiar with or does not understand the concept of a white Hispanic so all Mr. Trump had to do is hint that Sen. Cruz wasn't really an American. His followers heard the dog whistle and Sen. Cruz's carefully cultivated religious credentials went right out the window with that group.
Same with Ben Carson, who as a Seventh-Day Adventist should have and initially did strike a chord with evangelicals. But all Mr. Trump had to do is say: "Can you believe it? Nobody believes I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. Boy, that's down the middle of the road folks, in all fairness. I mean, Seventh-day Adventist, I don't know about. I just don't know about."
Goodbye, Ben Carson. Mr. Trump knocked them both out because he knows that in the end, being white-white - not Hispanic white and certainly not black - is all that matters for these supposedly pious folks. Mr. Trump can shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue - as he said, remember that? - and the evangelicals will spin it as, "What was he supposed to do? Turn the other cheek?"
12
Fortunately for everyone, including Mr. Trump, the probability that he will be elected is very small.
Unfortunately for everyone, the probability that white evangelicals will "summon a response that is rooted in real acceptance of their decentered place in a new America" is astronomically small. Travel through the American South and Midwest in particular, listen to the people you meet, and this fact becomes overwhelmingly clear.
While evangelicals, white or otherwise, have a few very legitimate grievances involving, for example, the increased crassness and rudeness of society, their most glaring impediment is that denial of reality lies at the very root of what it means to be an evangelical Christian.
Unfortunately for everyone, the probability that white evangelicals will "summon a response that is rooted in real acceptance of their decentered place in a new America" is astronomically small. Travel through the American South and Midwest in particular, listen to the people you meet, and this fact becomes overwhelmingly clear.
While evangelicals, white or otherwise, have a few very legitimate grievances involving, for example, the increased crassness and rudeness of society, their most glaring impediment is that denial of reality lies at the very root of what it means to be an evangelical Christian.
6
I look on with fascination as these white evangelical pundits wrap themselves in a cloth of self-righteousness, crawl in bed with the personification of Satan himself, and call it all good.
15
I, too, wish the Times would temper its characterization of "evangelicals" with a more incisive look at what's happening within Christian circles during this election, both Protestant and Catholic. There is a generational rift happening there, with many younger people within the Church completely appalled at not only Trump's candidacy but the whole hearted embrace of it by these supposed Christian figureheads. These are people of faith increasingly moved by issues of social justice and compassion we see as at the heart of Christ's core teachings. Some of the loudest Never Trump voices are coming from this group, especially as it has exposed the deep roots and impact of the politicization of the church, and we feel the future of our own institutions are at stake. If the Times would do due diligence, they'd probably uncover that a surprising number of young "evangelicals" were actually showing up to support Bernie and Hillary and are willing to consider any candidate that could most closely reflect some degree of a Christian ethic, which Mr. Trump most certainly does not.
129
Perhaps they should be MORE vocal, because I don't see many stories out there. Granted, I am in Texas, but haven't seen a "christian" yet who isn't for Trump, or at best, chooses to stay out of the discussion. If all Muslims, all blacks, etc are expected to shoulder the responsibility of the mistakes made by their more extreme few, then why are there not more public denunciations from Christians? Being silent is no way to address this.
By the way, this is meant as a "general" statement. Good for you, personally, for standing up and speaking to Jesus's teachings, I think we could all use a little more of that.
By the way, this is meant as a "general" statement. Good for you, personally, for standing up and speaking to Jesus's teachings, I think we could all use a little more of that.
1
I lived in a liberal bubble until I"friended" a cousin on Facebook, who much to my surprise and sadness, started sharing what I now call "toxic Christian" posts. I had no clue as to the bigotry and downright hateful craziness that is out there. I opened the window and then shut it. First I explained why we can't be friends. The God I pray to is a kind spirit. Generous, loving. Words matter. Kindness matters.
19
the God you worship is as as big a fantasy as the god your cousin worships. And, as with all religions, its just a matter of time until someone uses your belief to do you harm
2
My experience was just the opposite. I lived in a conservative bubble and married a liberal and ended up working with and befriending a number of liberals. I'm now a liberal.
My husband and friends asked me good questions and gently challenged and encouraged me to ask the right questions and look at the facts. Once I started doing that, I left the Republican party and will never go back.
Good people can make a difference.
My husband and friends asked me good questions and gently challenged and encouraged me to ask the right questions and look at the facts. Once I started doing that, I left the Republican party and will never go back.
Good people can make a difference.
3
shrinking food - I'm going to respectfully disagree. I'm not a religious person but I've known some good people who really live their faith and the strength they draw from their beliefs does seem to sustain and uplift them, it certainly doesn't seem to harm them in any way.
1
Why is this discussion even taking place? I know for sure that in my part of the world any politician who intentionally went out of their way to pander to specific religious groups in their district would not even have the remotest chance of being elected dog catcher let alone having a chance of representing their district in ANY election. One can see perfectly well what happens in places like South Carolina and Mississippi, among others, who try to design exclusionary, intolerant laws to cater to certain religious groups at the expense of all others.
If religious groups are going to try to influence legislation and elections, their tax free status in which ALL tax payers subsidize, should immediately be rescinded.
If religious groups are going to try to influence legislation and elections, their tax free status in which ALL tax payers subsidize, should immediately be rescinded.
22
Considering that this lot has lost four elections in a row, their extreme, backward platform actually has no meaning. We The People, who follow the Constitution and strongly believe in the separation of hypocrisy and state, are not worried. They will lose again.
8
Assuming that white evangelicals actually would "summon a response that is rooted in real acceptance of their decentered place in a new America", just what revitalization role does the author envision they would play in the public square? What are they really offering beyond hatred, ignorance, and fear?
4
My feeling is that religion causes more problems than it is worth.
6
Mr. Jones's last sentence is his most important: "If, however, white evangelicals somehow summon a response that is rooted in real acceptance of their decentered place in a new America, they may find that they have a critical role to play in the revitalization of our civic life." Amen.
Donald Trump flouts every tenet of Christianity, and repels millions of faithful Christians. Meanwhile, his focus on power and perks makes him a perfect fit for "leaders" like Mr. Dobson and Mr. Huckabee. Their embrace of Mr. Trump has little to do with his supposed nascent relationship with Christ. What's at work here is simply back-room dealing among power brokers who can deliver votes, money and organization for a campaign that desperately needs all three.
Donald Trump flouts every tenet of Christianity, and repels millions of faithful Christians. Meanwhile, his focus on power and perks makes him a perfect fit for "leaders" like Mr. Dobson and Mr. Huckabee. Their embrace of Mr. Trump has little to do with his supposed nascent relationship with Christ. What's at work here is simply back-room dealing among power brokers who can deliver votes, money and organization for a campaign that desperately needs all three.
5
Just what special exemption does one get by being an evangelical of any stripe? Are you exempt from loss and grief? From economic hardship? From disease?
Trump, the Evangelical choice! The irony is lost on all of them. The Bible is a book. The Constitution is the law. Trump is simply scary.
Trump, the Evangelical choice! The irony is lost on all of them. The Bible is a book. The Constitution is the law. Trump is simply scary.
3
It's time to teach children analytical thinking, conflict resolution - and compassion - at home and in school.
6
Right-wing, fundamentalist Christians who support Donald Trump's overt bigotry and radical quest for dictatorial power are clearly proving beyond any reasonable doubt that: (1) They do not practice Christ's teachings, (2) they do not respect the Constitution, and (3) they little more than ignorant, selfish, bigots.
I no longer respect right-wing, fundamentalist Christians because they do not respect my beliefs or my freedoms, and they persistently strive to oppress all who are different and weaker than they.
As far as I am concerned, America's fraudulently misnamed "Christian conservatives" have no moral authority and have not earned an important voice in a constitutional pluralistic democratic republic.
I no longer respect right-wing, fundamentalist Christians because they do not respect my beliefs or my freedoms, and they persistently strive to oppress all who are different and weaker than they.
As far as I am concerned, America's fraudulently misnamed "Christian conservatives" have no moral authority and have not earned an important voice in a constitutional pluralistic democratic republic.
11
This is absolutely barmy, crazy talk – this reliance on a group of people who would be viewed as fundamentalist extremists, by European terms, to somehow secure being the next American President is absolutely abhorrent.
What kind of message does ‘the evangelical vote’ send to all non-fundamentalist Christians in America? Or to all the other countries and peoples out there, many of which shudder at overt religious links of any kind?
The thought of any kind of overtly religious American president is deeply worrying, even though it ties in a little too well with the creeping, insidious rise of religious extremism in America in these post-911 days, as so odiously exemplified by the fact that a Creationist made it to the final selection of would-be POTUS candidates recently. A Creationist! A man who’d be laughed out of public office over here, yet who potentially got a few candidates of being someone with access to the nuclear codes!
Donald Trump has more than enough faults, flaws and despicable character traits already without needing to add his blatantly phoney, opportunistic sucking up to religious lunatics to add to his roll-call of sins.
Any evangelical in America saying that they accept Trump as a new member of the flock is either astoundingly naive, or a flat-out liar, given that it's just one more game for that despicable man to play. The rise, and rise of American evangelicalism is worrying enough with Trumping it up further.
What kind of message does ‘the evangelical vote’ send to all non-fundamentalist Christians in America? Or to all the other countries and peoples out there, many of which shudder at overt religious links of any kind?
The thought of any kind of overtly religious American president is deeply worrying, even though it ties in a little too well with the creeping, insidious rise of religious extremism in America in these post-911 days, as so odiously exemplified by the fact that a Creationist made it to the final selection of would-be POTUS candidates recently. A Creationist! A man who’d be laughed out of public office over here, yet who potentially got a few candidates of being someone with access to the nuclear codes!
Donald Trump has more than enough faults, flaws and despicable character traits already without needing to add his blatantly phoney, opportunistic sucking up to religious lunatics to add to his roll-call of sins.
Any evangelical in America saying that they accept Trump as a new member of the flock is either astoundingly naive, or a flat-out liar, given that it's just one more game for that despicable man to play. The rise, and rise of American evangelicalism is worrying enough with Trumping it up further.
8
Trumps vow is really to "make America white again". This is what people hear and what he really stands for. Those days are gone. Good riddance.
10
There is a disturbing but unsurprising symmetry between Ben Hubbard's outstanding article about the simmering dissonance between religious "purists" in Saudi Arabia, and those who prefer at least somewhat more moderate lifestyles, and the ostensibly "disaffected" white Protestants, who yearn for the "simple joys" of life in the 1850's. Religion, I truly believe, is the source of the worst atrocities throughout history - it is ultimately an effort to exert full control over people's lives, and there is no doubt that every religion can be perverted to encourage and permit all manner of slaughter and mayhem, "in god's name." That these white Protestants could support such a loathsome, boorish, racist, misogynist xenophobe and ignoramus on the basis of his empty rhetoric about "restoring them to power" speaks volumes about how destructive religion mixed with politics has always been. There is a reason why our founders sought to firmly separate "Church and State," and their reasons are as urgent and vital now as they were at the dawn of this nation. Religion belongs in houses of worship and at home - it has no place in government, nor in public policy. When you seek to establish your religious views upon others who do not share them, your views must be subordinated to those of the public at large. I reiterate: every one of those churches should lose their tax exemptions immediately, for flagrant violation of the IRC.
16
Trump is going to "reinstate their central place in the country". Yep, that should happen when he brings back the manufacturing jobs which will be automated anyway. Thank goodness enough of us have moved forward where life doesn't have to be my way or the highway. I have never seen as much judgemental as I see from the evangelicals. I do not want to live in a white, male, straight, 5,000 year old world. Like is more interesting with diversity.
And Secretary Clinton adores her daughter too!
And Secretary Clinton adores her daughter too!
10
People sometimes assume Christian ministers are leaders, and sometimes that is true, but no one is more acutely aware of where "their people" are than Protestant pastors who are generally hired by the congregation and can be dismissed by them. The so-called Protestant evangelical leaders who are Trump supporters may simply be people who know where their paychecks are coming from.
4
As a FORMER conservative Roman Catholic (46 years) and a FORMER Evangelical Christian (26 years) and a current Main Line Progressive Presbyterian, I can assure you that at the root of ALL "conservative" religious elements is a quest for power and control over people's lives. Despite the fact that Mitt Romney is a Mormon, and Mormons were demonized by every Evangelical and Catholic church I ever attended for their unorthodox beliefs about the divinity of Christ, conservative Catholics and Protestant Evangelicals and Fundamentalists supported him over professing Christian Barack Obama. The religious conservatives are not concerned with faith, morals, mercy, charity or any other "Christian" teaching. What they are concerned about is dictating a cafeteria style of Biblical interpretation that often contradicts the teachings of Christ. They do so in order to promote their agenda, and to shove it down the throat of everyone else. As a former conservative Christian, let me assure you that they are in fact the most dangerous group in America, promoting discord, war and violence in veiled terminology disguised as "morals" and "values". Witness the hypocrisy of a 3 time married & divorced clerk going to jail rather than do her job of issuing a gay marriage license, or Catholic Bishops deriding divorced congregants while enabling a half century of world wide pedophilia. If Christ waited until now to make His first advent, it would be the conservative Christians who would crucify Him.
18
I grew up in the same culture as Mr. Jeffress. There are many good people in his church and they are often better than their beliefs. Many endure his ego, which now covers several blocks in downtown Dallas, in order to stay and try to do some good. Others have given up on him in the same way many Republicans have given up on Trump.
Mindless Bible waving and group shaming fit nicely with Trump's methods of acquiring power. Jesus was intimately acquainted with scapegoating, but he tried to end the practice—not normalize it as these clowns do.
Obviously, Mr. Jeffress and the other religious demagogues have very little to do with Jesus or the deep and brilliant lights at the heart of Christianity. Like Trump, religion is a means to an end for Jeffress and that end is about self-worship disguised as God-worship. Jesus saved his harshest words for the Jeffress and Trump types.
Trump doesn't need to actually read his "favorite book." Like Jeffress, he consults with himself (Jeffress would call it 'seeking God's heart'). If the Bible contradicts them in saying things like "God is love," or "love your enemies" it just hasn't been spun enough.
But Jesus gave us all a pass when he prayed for forgiveness "because they are out of their minds!" It's the only defense a jury could swallow.
D Baker
Mindless Bible waving and group shaming fit nicely with Trump's methods of acquiring power. Jesus was intimately acquainted with scapegoating, but he tried to end the practice—not normalize it as these clowns do.
Obviously, Mr. Jeffress and the other religious demagogues have very little to do with Jesus or the deep and brilliant lights at the heart of Christianity. Like Trump, religion is a means to an end for Jeffress and that end is about self-worship disguised as God-worship. Jesus saved his harshest words for the Jeffress and Trump types.
Trump doesn't need to actually read his "favorite book." Like Jeffress, he consults with himself (Jeffress would call it 'seeking God's heart'). If the Bible contradicts them in saying things like "God is love," or "love your enemies" it just hasn't been spun enough.
But Jesus gave us all a pass when he prayed for forgiveness "because they are out of their minds!" It's the only defense a jury could swallow.
D Baker
7
Christopher Hitchens is smiling through thousands of eyes reading of the evagelical's comeuppance. I believe religions of all stripes are worthy of our utmost scorn, and the world will be a better place as more and more believers and proselytites are marginalized. We miss you, Hitch!
10
Can't we stop slicing and dicing demographics, criticizing evangelicals for one thing, and liberals for another thing, etc., etc., ad nauseam? Can't we all just see one another as Americans, try and remember the good things we agree about, and get along?
4
The religious right's support of Trump brings their opportunistic hypocrisy into bold relief. It takes an astounding degree of mental gymnastics and twisted, contorted rationalization for any values voter to line up behind a candidate so demonstrably amoral, self-serving and heartless as Trump. They fail to recognize that Trump would be Caesar, demanding all homage be paid only to himself.
Secular humanism is a wonderful thing. We must be a country where people are free to practice, but not impose upon others, their personal religious beliefs. Public policy must be free of religious influence. Recent trends such as marriage equality, LGBT anti-discrimination laws and support of reproductive choice are encouraging. Personally, I view the granting of tax exempt status to religious organizations to be an undue burden upon we tax payers who choose not participate in an organized religion. Let's hope a true religious freedom movement occurs, lifting the yoke of tax support for these clubs--that's really what religions are--from those who do not participate.
In the meantime, the religious right's support of Trump is pathetic and reveals their moral emptiness.
Secular humanism is a wonderful thing. We must be a country where people are free to practice, but not impose upon others, their personal religious beliefs. Public policy must be free of religious influence. Recent trends such as marriage equality, LGBT anti-discrimination laws and support of reproductive choice are encouraging. Personally, I view the granting of tax exempt status to religious organizations to be an undue burden upon we tax payers who choose not participate in an organized religion. Let's hope a true religious freedom movement occurs, lifting the yoke of tax support for these clubs--that's really what religions are--from those who do not participate.
In the meantime, the religious right's support of Trump is pathetic and reveals their moral emptiness.
22
Show me a time in history when those in power willingly gave up their power.
9
George Washington!
3
The number one-ism practiced by so many of the white Christians referenced in the article is in itself paranoid and borderline pathological. I've been a minority in the Christian community my whole life and suffer no lack of self esteem, no feeling that my absence of privilege works to my ruin. Yes, I think my interpretation of the gospel is more authentic than others, but that fact is banal; it could not be otherwise, nor does it imply that I fail to respect those alternative points of view or would fail to give them space to breathe.
Do they really know what Trump wants to restore for them? Everyone forced to say Merry Christmas under penalty of beheading? Oaths to Jesus as a requirement to vote? Special rights for whites? What? There is a Christian church on almost every corner of every US street. Whites already live in largely segregated neighborhoods. What more will Donald Trump hand them?
Do they really know what Trump wants to restore for them? Everyone forced to say Merry Christmas under penalty of beheading? Oaths to Jesus as a requirement to vote? Special rights for whites? What? There is a Christian church on almost every corner of every US street. Whites already live in largely segregated neighborhoods. What more will Donald Trump hand them?
22
This Article should be called :"The End of White Supremacy." As for any people who do not like living here I say "Go back from whence you or your ancestors came from." Trumpism ignores the facts that this land was stolen from the Native Americans, the Mexicans who lived in the Southwest and a few French settlers. Everybody else should be given a rubber tube, adequate food and water and told to start swimming. If the real Americans had any sense, they would have killed the INVADERS as they landed, including the refugees. Fascism comes in many forms, Now it comes from Donald the Digital "and intellectual" Dwarf.
4
I don't know if this little bit of irony was done on purpose, but this opinion piece appears in the same edition regarding an investigation of religion and the use of the power of the state to enforce it in Saudi Arabia. The white Protestant evangelicals lament the loss of one thing - power. It is the same power that the extreme Islamic sects use to control women and all other aspects of their society. When Donald Trump says that when we have him installed in the Oval Office, everybody will be saying Merry Christmas. That statement alone should put all of us on notice, that we are headed down the same road. It's a place I'm not interested in visiting. It has taken too long to throw off enough of the shackles of religion to get us where we are now, I can see no reason to go back.
11
This is one of the best observations of the Trump phenomena that I've read, and I've read plenty. "Make America Great Again" never made more sense.., well done!
1
I am not an evangelical at all and I am voting for Trump. No I am not blue collar either. What I am is sick of what is going on and I want change. I don't want a continuation of the liberal agenda.
1
So you don't want affordable health care, a clean safe environment, education etc. What exactly is it about those things that bothers you?
What sort of change do you think Trump is going to bring about?
What sort of change do you think Trump is going to bring about?
8
Somehow Mr. Trump brings to mind Matthew 25:41-45: “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me. 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me."
I am amazed at how evangelical leaders such as Mr. Dobbs can overlook the plain language of the Gospels to embrace a man such as Mr. Trump. To me, their behavior looks like casuistry, like they will make up any half-baked tissue of soothing words to persuade themselves that he's one of their own. Is there an expression in the English language that conveys more contempt than "Vichy Republicans"?
I am amazed at how evangelical leaders such as Mr. Dobbs can overlook the plain language of the Gospels to embrace a man such as Mr. Trump. To me, their behavior looks like casuistry, like they will make up any half-baked tissue of soothing words to persuade themselves that he's one of their own. Is there an expression in the English language that conveys more contempt than "Vichy Republicans"?
8
As a Catholic, I sometimes think we so called white Christians might be better off were we to devolve to minority status in this country. Perhaps then we would practice the Christian faith more honestly and let the love of God be manifest in us, instead of using power to beat people over the head. It's not very attractive and certainly not Christ-like.
The "meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what" does not describe the Jesus we ate meant to love, Mr. Jeffress, and such a man will not save evangelical from the "threat" that comes only from within themselves - a fear, not that they will be persecuted, but that they will lose power. Power is not a New Testament ideal. Read up.
The "meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what" does not describe the Jesus we ate meant to love, Mr. Jeffress, and such a man will not save evangelical from the "threat" that comes only from within themselves - a fear, not that they will be persecuted, but that they will lose power. Power is not a New Testament ideal. Read up.
13
"Mr. Trump won evangelicals over by explicitly addressing their deeper sense of loss"
I beg to differ. I'd say Trump's appeal was his demonstration that unapologetic bigotry is compatible with other aspects of professed evangelical orthodoxy. Sadly, that is a representation of 'traditional values' that many in this country still manage to reconcile.
I beg to differ. I'd say Trump's appeal was his demonstration that unapologetic bigotry is compatible with other aspects of professed evangelical orthodoxy. Sadly, that is a representation of 'traditional values' that many in this country still manage to reconcile.
10
There is no "national" religion in America. OUR United States Constitution and Amendment call for SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. That means people are free to worship - or not - as they please without government interference. The Constitution also protects individuals from any religious organization forcing their beliefs on others. The catholic church, protestant evangelicals and other radical religionists have ignored OUR Constitution. It is time for their tax-free status to be taken away and to tax them back for all the wealth they have stolen in government grants, tax breaks and every other form of use of OUR taxpayer money and religion-free country. All organized religion oppresses and suppresses women. It is 2000 years past time to end it now.
31
"The purpose of the separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife, that has soaked the soil of Europe, in blood, for centuries".
James Madison
James Madison
5
The attraction to Trump by 'white evangelical Protestants' is easy to understand -- once you have the honesty to admit that there is nothing religious in the political motivation of 'white evangelical Protestants.'
Decades of social science research is conclusive that what motivates the groups euphemistically known as 'white evangelical Protestants' or 'values voters' is one thing -- authoritarianism.
Affinity for Trump, then, is easily understood. Trump is the most plainly authoritarian major-party candidate since George Wallace.
American authoritarians seeks to corrupt constitutional systems in order to use the coercive power of government to control the lives of free people. In the US, this personality type has its origin in the Slave Power, which used religious arguments in their increasing vain attempt to rationalize the ownership of human beings for their economic gain. It continues now among those who are motivated by fear, and whose fears are stoked by seeing increasing political visibility of women, blacks, Catholics, Jews and Muslims in this country over the last 60 years.
Trump is fear-based, so are the christian-decorated authoritarians, who have trained the news media, since the Reagan years, to confuse these anti-liberty, anti-American authoritarians, with actual Christians, who profess a gospel of peace and the universal brotherhood of all humanity.
Decades of social science research is conclusive that what motivates the groups euphemistically known as 'white evangelical Protestants' or 'values voters' is one thing -- authoritarianism.
Affinity for Trump, then, is easily understood. Trump is the most plainly authoritarian major-party candidate since George Wallace.
American authoritarians seeks to corrupt constitutional systems in order to use the coercive power of government to control the lives of free people. In the US, this personality type has its origin in the Slave Power, which used religious arguments in their increasing vain attempt to rationalize the ownership of human beings for their economic gain. It continues now among those who are motivated by fear, and whose fears are stoked by seeing increasing political visibility of women, blacks, Catholics, Jews and Muslims in this country over the last 60 years.
Trump is fear-based, so are the christian-decorated authoritarians, who have trained the news media, since the Reagan years, to confuse these anti-liberty, anti-American authoritarians, with actual Christians, who profess a gospel of peace and the universal brotherhood of all humanity.
533
To Ego Nemo: you hit the nail on the head regarding authoritarianism. Well said! Trump is a fear monger, and comparisons to Mussolini and Hitler are right on the mark also.
3
It is not "doctrine" that drives Evangelicals but the need for power, especially to have power over others. They are only one step away from the Tea Party that "wants its country back" i.e. make us white and male again. Have they not seen that fewer white babies are being born in the USA? Do they not know that the largest block of voters will be non-white in the coming years.? And do they not realize that people like myself have left their "fold" in droves?
3
Considering how many problems religions have caused in the world I would think that most people would give up on them. Many of the problems the United States has been having (and has had) have sprung from religious beliefs. As a Jew I've heard that I'm damned because my people crucified Jesus, that God will not hear my prayers, that I have horns, that Hitler should have killed all of us, that if I accept God into my life my Jewish soul will be forgiven. I've been told that my race runs the banks and politics of the Western world. I've been told that my parents are rich even though they aren't.
I've also read some Christian writings that have claimed that blacks were meant to be slaves, that they pollute other races with intermarriage, that they don't need to have any brains because they came from Africa where it was paradise.
These are examples of religions and beliefs we don't need. We don't need a religion to tell us that being LGBTQ is a sin. It's not any more of a sin than being left handed. The only thing that religion in America seems to be good at is splitting people up. If we value diversity religions that set us against each other should not be welcomed.
I've also read some Christian writings that have claimed that blacks were meant to be slaves, that they pollute other races with intermarriage, that they don't need to have any brains because they came from Africa where it was paradise.
These are examples of religions and beliefs we don't need. We don't need a religion to tell us that being LGBTQ is a sin. It's not any more of a sin than being left handed. The only thing that religion in America seems to be good at is splitting people up. If we value diversity religions that set us against each other should not be welcomed.
72
"Jewish Religion" ?
I would like to hear about your Jewish religion as it pertains to the treatment of Palestinians, and your own fath's mistreatment of women.
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
2
Sorry Barbyr, I can't speak to all of that. I'm not Hasidic. I'm not Israeli and I don't support everything they do. But I've noticed that every faith, especially at the extremist level, mistreats women. Therefore it's a problem for all, not just the Jews or the Christians. I would suggest that you read up on other religions as well before condemning Jews.
5
A vote for Trump is tacit admission that, in Evangelical circles, you don't have to walk the walk as long as you talk the talk. Of course, the same thing applies to Evangelicals themselves. If you praise Jesus often enough, you don't have to follow a single one of His exhortations. Just have faith- and keep on hating and sinning.
68
Hen3ry, I could not have said it better myself. And I look forward to reading old friend Robert Jones' book when it is released tomorrow, when it will be delivered to my Kindle.
There is an old saying that goes "the easiest person to con is a con artist." That age okd theorem is proven as Falwell and Dobson prove easy marks for the master.
18
Tax the church.
38
Though I am not religious I believe most who are, including Muslims, who have been on the receiving end of the most vile attacks of late, are inherently borne out of love for God and Man and being a good human.
I have no problem with Evangelicals. I see no dissonance with their support of candidates who profess their Christian values. That allegiance need not be exclusive to Republicans. Many Evangelicals flocked to Jimmy Carter, a man whom I see as continuing to practice his religion of doing good works to this very day.
I found a paradox when Evangelicals in 2012 questioned whether Mitt Romney belonged to a religion or a cult. Romney appears a good decent man, husband, father and a person who practices the tenets of his religion faithfully.
What I find incongruous is when those who claim to adhere to good Christian values, whether they be Fundamentalists or members of other denominations, look for excuses to support Donald Trump. A good Christian they tell me he is. Really? What examples or parables from the Bible can they cite in comparing Donald Trump to anyone whom we would look to as a follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ, of trying to emulate Christ's life on earth Where in Donald Trump's actions or words has he shown himself to be humble before God? Where does he acknowledge any of the humility I subscribe to followers of moral Christian values? I would say Trump represents the antithesis of Christ. By his acts we shall know him.
DD
Manhattan
I have no problem with Evangelicals. I see no dissonance with their support of candidates who profess their Christian values. That allegiance need not be exclusive to Republicans. Many Evangelicals flocked to Jimmy Carter, a man whom I see as continuing to practice his religion of doing good works to this very day.
I found a paradox when Evangelicals in 2012 questioned whether Mitt Romney belonged to a religion or a cult. Romney appears a good decent man, husband, father and a person who practices the tenets of his religion faithfully.
What I find incongruous is when those who claim to adhere to good Christian values, whether they be Fundamentalists or members of other denominations, look for excuses to support Donald Trump. A good Christian they tell me he is. Really? What examples or parables from the Bible can they cite in comparing Donald Trump to anyone whom we would look to as a follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ, of trying to emulate Christ's life on earth Where in Donald Trump's actions or words has he shown himself to be humble before God? Where does he acknowledge any of the humility I subscribe to followers of moral Christian values? I would say Trump represents the antithesis of Christ. By his acts we shall know him.
DD
Manhattan
12
Highly amusing. The philosophical and intellectual gymnastics these people are willing to do to support Trump merely show how thoughtless and unprincipled they really are.
18
I just read the piece on the Saudi "reformer". Unholy alliances between religion and politics seem ubiquitous and pernicious. Time to get god out of politics once and for all; I have utterly no interest in being ruled by sanctimonious, self-righteous and controlling "messengers of god" - what utter hubris!!!
24
What the Evangelicals seem to want is women back in the home taking care of lots of children (keeping the white birth-rate up), and being subservient to the men-folk. Home schooling and only being allowed to associate with others from their church or even in their immediate family will help to keep them properly brainwashed. The big problem is that it is a big world out there and getting along with all types of people may be necessary. The one Evangelical family I know raised their girls to be "good servants" and the boys to accept being waited on as their due. As a result, the two oldest boys have returned home after failing at attempts to live out of the cocoon and the oldest girl left her unaccredited college, got a job, got a scholarship, got a master's degree, and when she got married, told her husband where they would be living so she could get plenty of work as a piano teacher. It will be interesting to see what happens when the youngest leave the nest, whether they are able to make it in the real world or fly back to the "security" of the cocoon.
8
Susan:
Yes, my husband jokingly reminds me of the scripture Titus 3:5 whenever I start getting too "uppity". I go to a "Liberal Protestant Church" by today's standards after coming from a Pentecostal ( Mother's side) and Fundamentalist (Father's side) background. I finally "left the nest" after working full-time and getting a college degree at the same time. I consider myself a "faithful servant" of the Lord ( not my husband). I wish most white evangelicals did as well.
Yes, my husband jokingly reminds me of the scripture Titus 3:5 whenever I start getting too "uppity". I go to a "Liberal Protestant Church" by today's standards after coming from a Pentecostal ( Mother's side) and Fundamentalist (Father's side) background. I finally "left the nest" after working full-time and getting a college degree at the same time. I consider myself a "faithful servant" of the Lord ( not my husband). I wish most white evangelicals did as well.
1
Isn't it odd how they have chosen to overlook the 3 marriages, the infidelity during the marriages (didn't he take the 5th about 90 times when asked about "other women" during his divorce from Ivana?), his vulgar, disrespectful references to women, the many people he hasn't paid for work performed, etc.? I guess it would be appropriate to ask: WWJD? (what would Jesus do?) Would Jesus support such a man for the most powerful office in the world? Of course not. Surely, these evangelical leaders are not doing God's work in supporting Donald Trump.
32
How do you write about Donald Trump and his capture of the evangelical community without mentioning the crudeness and the general anti-Christian resonance of Trump's message? That's the real story here. Living through the Tea Party era has made most of America understand that the evangelical community fully comprehends and embraces political power. That group wielded its power to an amazing degree by helping to elect and hamstring several terms of Congress from achieving anything positive.
But the Trump candidacy has exposed the taste of the evangelical leaders for power at any price, willing to excuse and endorse--with miserably weak language--a candidate who shows the anthithesis of Christian values and whose public rebirth was very recent and shallow. Is electing someone who supports gay marriage really worse than electing someone who mocks war heroes, the disabled, and women's looks? And has not renounced his racial birther garbage? And who is prejudiced against Muslims, Mexican judges, and another eleven million Mexicans in general?
At what point should this evangelical group dispense with the religious affiliation and just go completely political?
But the Trump candidacy has exposed the taste of the evangelical leaders for power at any price, willing to excuse and endorse--with miserably weak language--a candidate who shows the anthithesis of Christian values and whose public rebirth was very recent and shallow. Is electing someone who supports gay marriage really worse than electing someone who mocks war heroes, the disabled, and women's looks? And has not renounced his racial birther garbage? And who is prejudiced against Muslims, Mexican judges, and another eleven million Mexicans in general?
At what point should this evangelical group dispense with the religious affiliation and just go completely political?
32
I know plenty of Catholic Trump supporters and, in 2010 at least, the Catholics on the Supreme Court were to the right of the snake handlers and were not the Vatican II communists the silent majority feared. I think focusing on evangelical Protestants is pretty simplistic.
14
The day white heterosexual Christian males regain their one-time guaranteed (and some would argue divinely ordained) post at the top of the socioeconomic food chain is the day I join Black Lives Matter.
9
Why wait?
1
For me, the central tenet of Christianity is "treat others the way you would like to be treated." If we all did that, a good many of our nation's ills would melt away. And truthfully, many religions claim this same value.
However, many Americans treat people who look or act or believe differently from themselves as "other." This is the basis for discord.
However, many Americans treat people who look or act or believe differently from themselves as "other." This is the basis for discord.
19
Mike Huckabee is misguided, as he is out of touch with the voting public as well as family life. Trump's children suffered the indignation of having their father carry on with his mistress while still married to their mother, have a child with that mistress, then move on to wife #3 and another child. If Huckabee thinks that this is having a great relationship with his grown children, then he needs his head examined.
39
A majority of Americans are Protestant, yet there is not a single Protestant on the Supreme Court. Protestants seem to accept this with grace, a fine example for all to emulate. There is only one God and only one race -- human.
8
This is an overview of just how ridiculous voters who are dominated by religious dogma translate their pious focus into the manufactured equivalent of a savior who will exercise their collective will. The legalization of marriage equality awakened the anesthetized giant of unbridled collaborative homophobia. Trump is clever enough to take up the sword against the LGBT community on their behalf if they indeed install him as their knight.
11
Every single Christian voter, evangelical or mainstream, should ask themselves but one question when considering whom to vote for to lead our country - "What Would Jesus Do?"
The blatant hypocrisy and contortions these evangelical leaders go through to deny that Trump and his actions over the past 30-years are anti-thetical to Christian morality and teachings is beyond absurd.
The blatant hypocrisy and contortions these evangelical leaders go through to deny that Trump and his actions over the past 30-years are anti-thetical to Christian morality and teachings is beyond absurd.
10
What would Jesus do?
Vote for Hillary.
Vote for Hillary.
20
Actually, I think Jesus would have been more comfortable supporting Sanders: A Jewish guy who had done some carpentry work talking about how feeding the hungry and housing the homeless and curing the sick should be at the forefront of our public policy seems like at least a bit of a kindred spirit.
Clinton, on the other hand, has been a bit too eager to violate "Thou shalt not kill" for my liking.
Clinton, on the other hand, has been a bit too eager to violate "Thou shalt not kill" for my liking.
5
Muskrat,
One might think he would pull for the other Jewish socialist. The one that talked of inequality's and helping everyone, not just those rich and Corp. The one that railed against the money changers. The one that is against war and killing.
The one who's palm is not crossed with silver.
But hey, I'm not religious. Sure, Jesus would go for Hillary.
One might think he would pull for the other Jewish socialist. The one that talked of inequality's and helping everyone, not just those rich and Corp. The one that railed against the money changers. The one that is against war and killing.
The one who's palm is not crossed with silver.
But hey, I'm not religious. Sure, Jesus would go for Hillary.
1
These evangelicals are the people who eschew the teachings of their namesake. These are the people who would crucify their namesake were he to appear on our streets preaching his "turn the other cheek" or his rich man and camel eye-of-needle nonsense. These are the hypocrites and Pharisees made flesh. They are making a deal with the devil himself.
14
There have been liberal, progressive Christians over the years -- over the centuries and millenia -- but not many. The essence of Christianity as it is practiced is division: WE believe in Jesus (or the Church) and have God's favor. And WE are a loving community. THEY do not believe in Jesus and, quite rightly, will suffer in Hell for eternity. THEY are outside our loving community. To be saved and to be part of our community is simple: All THEY have to do is give up their otherness and become one of US.
This is true, I think, of any religion that proselytises -- not only Christianity but Islam. Some political movements, too, like Maoism.
Fertile ground for hypocrites and frauds, dogmatists and tyrants.
This is true, I think, of any religion that proselytises -- not only Christianity but Islam. Some political movements, too, like Maoism.
Fertile ground for hypocrites and frauds, dogmatists and tyrants.
12
Are you saying this dogmatically?
@ No -- I am putting forward an idea.
Trump's sniffing around religion might come to it's logical conclusion: Church of Trump. After all, there's big money to be made, taxes to be avoided, and throngs of kneeling minions. Trump's idea of heaven.
Just ask L. Ron Hubbard, wherever he is, about the benefits of creating your own house of worship.
Just ask L. Ron Hubbard, wherever he is, about the benefits of creating your own house of worship.
6
The alacrity with which white evangelicals have accepted Trump as a Christian should be compared to their resistance in accpeting Presidant Obama as one.
10
I am a white evangelical pastor. I will not vote for Trump based on my views toward the poor, immigrants, and minorities. And my views on economics, power, and character in leadership. And my understanding of the inevitable price Christianity pays when it aligns itself with political power. I don't know where NYT gets the impression that there is some kind of vast bloc of my tribe supporting him, but I think it's from a tendency to believe that loud, politically-oriented pastors really speak for "evangelicals" - a term so poorly defined these days it's almost useless. You might benefit from talking with someone from Christianity Today or another representative publication. Or considering other churches that are about other things (like the Salvation Army) . In the 80s evangelicals sold their souls to politics, wealth, and a kind of power and status Jesus taught us to eschew. Our wing of Christianity and the gospel itself have paid a high spiritual and social price ever since for conflating the Kingdom of God with political power and social influence. I'm disgusted by those who would ply and play my faith for votes ... and disappointed by those who would sell out to any politician for (supposed) power and influence. I would think any reflection on Mark 12.13-17 or Jesus' attitudes toward Herod or Pilate or the Apostles' experience with politicians would teach us be a little more discerning.
4
Steve, this wasn't "the New York Times " taking, but Robert L. Jones, who has an insider's scholarly knowledge of American Evangelical Christianity. Read his new book or reviews of his book.
2
So what is it that the Evangelicals want now? A crusade to conquer or convert any American who doesn't believe what they believe? Well, they are backing the wrong horse. Donald Trump couldn't care less about Christianity or any other spiritual belief. As president, he would conduct himself just as he did in the business world. Promise anything and everything as it suits him and then go back on his word while leaving others to hold the bag. The nation's emotional scars from this presidential campaign will last for generations.
5
A problem that usually goes unmentioned is one of simple math. The religious right has to decide who they want to oppress the most: ethnic minorities (blacks in particular) or women and sexual minorities? In the good old days there was no need to choose how to deploy resources. Now they face a crisis within their ranks that comes down to a question of identity. Most religions are patriarchal; allowing equality for women and gender non conformity is unthinkable and creates a feeling of existential dread. But, attachment to American style racism is very strong and hard to let go of. Look for these folks to cling to both no matter that a two front war will erode their effectiveness.
5
Brings to mind one of Jesus's harshest evaluations:
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean." (Matthew 23:27)
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean." (Matthew 23:27)
4
But religious active protestants actually were less likely to vote for Trump than other groups and more likely to vote for Cruz. Oh well so much for facts.
HRC prayed for a miracle and she got Comey.
1
“I want the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find in that role, and I think that’s where many evangelicals are.”
Tough? Tough-talking, maybe. But his defensive reactions to any and all criticism have shown DT to have skin as thin as (as the song goes) the "skin of a new potato." His instinct is a business instinct: if indifference to which bathroom a person uses is good for business - and it is - that is where his allegiance will lie. "Merry Christmas" did not disappear from shop windows because of a war on Christianity. It's business. DT is just like every other businessman who will say anything to keep his own pockets lined.
Tough? Tough-talking, maybe. But his defensive reactions to any and all criticism have shown DT to have skin as thin as (as the song goes) the "skin of a new potato." His instinct is a business instinct: if indifference to which bathroom a person uses is good for business - and it is - that is where his allegiance will lie. "Merry Christmas" did not disappear from shop windows because of a war on Christianity. It's business. DT is just like every other businessman who will say anything to keep his own pockets lined.
5
Evangelicals have never dominated American politics. So I don't know what Mr. Jones is talking about when calls upon them to accept their "edcentered place". That said, they do form a significant part of the Republican coalition and will for quite a while. One could take them to task for supporting Trump on philosophical grounds. However, when it comes down to it, most people support candidates who aren't particularly holy.
1
I wish writers would quit using the term "evangelical" in such as a generalized sense. I am a member of a major evangelical Protestant denomination and the issues that political "Christians" have do not even show up nor represent my personal sense of the real issues facing this society. The people the writer is describing cannot legitimately be called Christians because their ideas are so at odds with the teachings of Jesus. They are simply classic right wingers using the Lord's name in vain for political purposes.
22
If, after all Trump has said and done, he wins the Christian vote, perdition cannot be far behind.
7
I can hardly think of a public figure less Chistian than Donald Trump. Christian means humble, gracious, generous to the less fortunate, introspective, reverent. Not like Trump: bully, braggart, con-man and carnival barker for Trump Inc.
I know atheists who are more "Chistian" as defined above thean Trump.
Trump will go to Heaven as a Christain when a camel fits through the eye of a needle...never.
I know atheists who are more "Chistian" as defined above thean Trump.
Trump will go to Heaven as a Christain when a camel fits through the eye of a needle...never.
10
But here's my question for Christians: what is a real Christian? The liberal, open-minded, progressive Christians? Or the Noah's Ark/Creationist Museum Christians? Or the Westfield Baptist Church Christians? Many insist we are a Christian nation, but we don't even know what a Christian is. And why don't we know? Because their deity is suspiciously absent and has been for 2000 years.
3
Christian candidate??? I'm guessing the Donald could be this year's poster boy for the 7 deadly sins: gluttony, lust, greed, prides, envy, wrath???? I mean, really. Can you think of anyone who tops any of these categories more than Trump???
16
Well, just to be fair there's a bit of Pride in Hillary....
Theocratic fascism with Trump's reactionary nationalism, what a combination.
9
Any "Christian" supporting Trump for president is either not doing so for reasons of religion, or is not a real Christian.
I had never heard before of the "Public Religion Research Institute," but if this piece is representative of depth of understanding stemming from its "research," then it deserves to be as ignored as it evidently is unknown.
I had never heard before of the "Public Religion Research Institute," but if this piece is representative of depth of understanding stemming from its "research," then it deserves to be as ignored as it evidently is unknown.
6
The word is American Christians.....and not evangelicals. Donald Trump can save America by saving America's church.
Well, then. We should make sure he does that by not letting him get anywhere close to the White House. I would rather have him "saving American's church" than ruining our country.
Thank God our constitution upholds the separation of church and state.
Thank God our constitution upholds the separation of church and state.
2
America doesn't have a church. You seem to have missed that whole separation of church and state principle.
2
First or Second Baptist usually denotes a church affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention, of which all your "Christian" examples are members. These racists/bigots/homophobes do NOT represent me or many other evangelical Christians. They surely don't represent He whom they claim to worship!
5
It's hilariouis watching the so-called 'evangelicals' squirm and strain...something they've been doing attempting to avoid the truth since fundamentalism was factually proved to be so much religious hokem and wishful thinking back in the 19th century--scientific and historical biblical studies, archaeology, paleontology, evidence and reason driving the nails of Biblical studies home throughout the 20th. They can squirm and strain all they want, and love the frump, Trump, all they want. But since truth always ultimately wins out over nonsense, their fairy tale existence's days are numbered, and the sooner their demise, the better for a proper understanding of reality and for all concerned.
10
Check your own historical critique. The demise of Christianity has been greatly exaggerated.
It's useful to remember that the defining premise of Fundamentalist Christianism is fear of going to Hell. I've never participated in a theological conversation with an evangelical that didn't invoke the threat of Satan within the first five minutes. Nobody would need a "personal savior" except for the threat of Eternal Damnation after death. What started with an itinerant Palestinian rabbi's advocacy of habitual unconditional love degenerated rapidly into a gospel of fear that has afflicted the West ever since.
When Thoreau was approaching death and a minister asked him if he'd "made his peace with God," he replied, "We've never quarreled." The intensely fearful society in which we live today is largely the creation of fundamentalist egocentricity and its reluctance to accept the inevitability of death. Trump's fear-mongering suits the evangelical mindset to–shall I say it?–a "T."
When Thoreau was approaching death and a minister asked him if he'd "made his peace with God," he replied, "We've never quarreled." The intensely fearful society in which we live today is largely the creation of fundamentalist egocentricity and its reluctance to accept the inevitability of death. Trump's fear-mongering suits the evangelical mindset to–shall I say it?–a "T."
12
As usual, a false characterization of the, "defining premise...". It's not fear, it's love. It starts with, love the Lord with all your heart. Try reading 1st Corinthians 13 and see what the greatest "defining premise" is. It's called love.
"As usual" according to whom? Have I posted previously on this topic?
Read the second sentence and you'll understand the context of the first. If you intend to characterize the presumptive GOP nominee as an avatar of love, I'd love to see some examples.
The obsession with sin, guilt and punishment is what separates "Christianism" from the actual teachings of Jesus.
Read the second sentence and you'll understand the context of the first. If you intend to characterize the presumptive GOP nominee as an avatar of love, I'd love to see some examples.
The obsession with sin, guilt and punishment is what separates "Christianism" from the actual teachings of Jesus.
2
There are echoes here of a recent article on the Theology of Mr Trump in which the author Wehner argues that Christianity is not about power, grasping for or wielding same.
1
First the Rapture, then Trump. These people will believe anything...
18
At the time that Marx said religion was the opium of the people, opium was respectable. (Remember Sherlock Holmes and his addiction). But it was expensive, and the poor were thrown back on religion for their solace. We really, really, need to consider how, if at all, humanity can live in some kind of happiness without stone-age superstition. The threats felt by the Evangelicals who support Trump include the threats and dissonances felt more widely among America's older whites. The same dissonances are felt all over the western world, giving us Brexit, May, and Le Pen.
We evolved in small groups of hunter-gatherers for the best part of five million years. Agriculture is maybe 10K years old, but it quickly evolved from subsistence farming to agribusiness and on to pharma-business. Each step of "efficiency" drove people off the land and into cities. Apart from getting the agribusiness people to pay more for the problems they've created, how do we cater for the sehnsucht of displaced, pigeon-holed humanity?
We evolved in small groups of hunter-gatherers for the best part of five million years. Agriculture is maybe 10K years old, but it quickly evolved from subsistence farming to agribusiness and on to pharma-business. Each step of "efficiency" drove people off the land and into cities. Apart from getting the agribusiness people to pay more for the problems they've created, how do we cater for the sehnsucht of displaced, pigeon-holed humanity?
5
Another example of Mr. Trump's pandering and the media's blinders to this fact.
7
Will James C. Dobson, the founder and former director of Focus on the Family, “cut [Mr. Trump] some slack” as “a baby Christian” if Trump raves for concentration camps, walls and freedom from taxes? Have “threats” kept evangelicals from church or is this theorizer talking about evangelicals’ lower unemployment since President Obama took office? Mr. Jeffress did not explain the puzzle for this article. Might Mr. Jeffress be referring to Donald J. Trump billions, a threat boldly set forth in the New Testament? Mr. Jeffress could have a notion about whether God is teaching the white Christian church.
2
Evangelicals, like other groups gravitating to The Orange One, are driven by fear. Fear of the other, fear of losing out, fear of losing control. Fear is the opposite of freedom and is unsustainable and destructive. Anyone who is putting their hope of survival or sustainability in the hands of anyone else, (particularly a user like The Orange One) is setting themselves up for the big fall. The Orange One is the ultimate false prophet, The Wizard of OZ, the little man behind the curtain. The Evangelicals have abandoned Christianity by supporting him. Christ was not a racist, not an ideologue, not a seeker of power or control. Basically, he was anti-religion and all of its excesses. Calling yourself a Christian is easy, being one is not.
20
I cringe every time I hear someone claim that America is a Christian country and that our Constitution was inspired by the Bible or maybe even directly by Jesus. None of those things has ever been true; in fact, regarding the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence, history supports a contrary view. But, of course, that matters little. These sorts of claims are only made by folks who choose just those portions in each of these documents which support their stunted world view and notions of "Christian" right and wrong. Don't expect them to be turning the other cheek or doing on to others as . . well, you know. And, uh, God forbid if government tried to become the keeper or even offer a hand up to the least of our brothers and sisters.
18
Trump Christian University
9
Religion is a total fraud sold to people who are not rational, and Trump is an ignorant fraud as well. Religion and Trump go together like beans and rice, so no justification beyond that is necessary for these religious nut cases. Preachers and Trump sell racism, bigotry, irrational statements and behavior and Trump could very well been one of these preachers, most despicable people in the world.
10
I actually don't know of any evangelicals voting for Trump, and one is my best friend. They're not voting for Hillary, and like a lot of us, they are outraged by the racist rhetoric, misogynistic behavior, bankruptcy as a strategy, and the sheer mean-ness of Trump's campaign.
You have a book to sell, and sell it you will. But don't speak for all evangelicals.
You have a book to sell, and sell it you will. But don't speak for all evangelicals.
6
Any so-called Christian who responds favorably to the words, "You're going to have plenty of power--you don't need anybody else" from Trump is already apostate. Give it up--this is not about Christianity whatsoever!
10
Make America Protestant again. "Seven in 10 white evangelical Protestants say the country has changed for the worse since the 1950s." I'm guessing that 7in 10 white Protestants weren't born before the 1950s. Nostalgia for a time that they don't remember or never really existed. If in fact 7 in 10 were born then, they are a dying breed.
4
These so called evangelicals want to create hell-on-earth, and Trump is their best choice for them to achieve this.
I'm reminded by the Sigmund Freud quote, "religion is a mental illness".
I'm reminded by the Sigmund Freud quote, "religion is a mental illness".
10
The only smart thing Bobby Jindal ever said was about Trump, that in spite of what Trump says, his favorite book is not the bible cuz he isn't in it!
6
America was never completely white, furthermore, evangelicals are only great at parading out their stupidity, and are by far the most poorly educated people, hardly equipped for debating such weighty problems like God, religions, and cultural beliefs. I was raised among or with WASP culture; I'm English, German, with some Jewish strain and Spanish. I abhor the stultifying aspects of White American culture, the sterility which seems to exclude good food, wine, music, philosophy, or art, but fully endorses sports viewing forever. A more interesting and dynamic society is not going to come about through disgruntled Whites and Trump supporters.
3
Their god is power.
7
Hate should never have become one of the tenets of the religions. Just as the bigots took over the rebel flag and made it a symbol of racism when it had become a symbol of anti-yankee pride, hate is now a part of most religions. Time for a woman to take over the presidency and instill some christian values of work and helping others, not hating others as Trump plays on.
2
Do you really think the anti-Yankees weren't bigots?
I don't want anyone, woman or man to instill religious values into our government. A good and decent person doesn't have to be religious.
I don't want anyone, woman or man to instill religious values into our government. A good and decent person doesn't have to be religious.
Let's hope that white evangelicals don't regain influence over politicians and government. There is supposed to be a separation of Church and State in the US. They seek to impose their values on the entire populace of the US in a Christian version of Sharia law. Moreover these values reflect a nostalgia for an America of the past, with minorities and women in their place. They do not recognize a woman's right to choose or the equality of gays. Donald Trump promises to make America great again. The subtext is that he will turn the clock back to the 1950s with all that this implies. He has appealed to the worst in people with racism, sexism, xenophobia, tribalism and other noxious ideas, making them acceptable in public discourse rather than shameful. For evangelicals this should be opposite of their purported Christian beliefs. Unfortunately it is not. The diversity of the US and its citizens demands that religion be kept out of government and stay in religious institutions as it should be.
5
The whole Christian Right thing makes no sense in light of whom these people claim to follow and the values of their candidates. I was raised in the Baptist Church, right in the heart of the modern Evangelical movement, and am well versed in both their espoused doctrines and their sub-culture.
If the question is what would Jesus do, the answer is that he would be anything but a NeoConservative Republican. There is no way, however one might try to spin things, that anyone can reconcile NeoConservative policy, philosophy and values with the Jesus of the Gospels.
"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn: for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness: for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they will be called children of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
That is far from George W Bush, Dick Cheney, Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Donald Trump, Newt Gingrich, Karl Rove, Bobby Jindal, Sam Brownback, Steve Scalise, Kevin McCarthy, Jason Chaffetz, Sheldon Adelson, Peter G Peterson or The Koch Brothers.
To quote Jesus:
"For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
Follow the money.
If the question is what would Jesus do, the answer is that he would be anything but a NeoConservative Republican. There is no way, however one might try to spin things, that anyone can reconcile NeoConservative policy, philosophy and values with the Jesus of the Gospels.
"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn: for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness: for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they will be called children of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
That is far from George W Bush, Dick Cheney, Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Donald Trump, Newt Gingrich, Karl Rove, Bobby Jindal, Sam Brownback, Steve Scalise, Kevin McCarthy, Jason Chaffetz, Sheldon Adelson, Peter G Peterson or The Koch Brothers.
To quote Jesus:
"For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
Follow the money.
12
Jones' understanding of "evangelical " is terribly flawed and/or simply wrong. All those mentioned by him as evangelical are fundamentalists , pure and simple. At times I think that they are not even evangelical due to their extreme anger and anti-Christian views. It is unfortunate that too many of your editorialists really have a false understanding about evangelicals and fundamentalists. Trump is definitely a fundamentalist as well as so many who support him. It is also true that there is such a thing as " political fundamentalism " . Presently, the GOP leadership is fundamentalistic in outlook. Their rejection of any form of compromise vividly illustrates this. Please read Jimmy Carter's views on this subject in many of his books. His understanding of the subject is right on target. These folk, whether in relation to religion or politics, believe that they alone have truth; therefore, compromise is impossible for them. This poses the greatest danger to any democracy in religion or politics. The Southern Baptist Convention is a perfect example of fundamentalism. And, the leadership of this denomination has broken every principle of being evangelical. Please, you who write in this field, begin to do your homework and properly use terms. The majority of evangelicals reject fundamentalism !!
8
The Southern Baptist Convention is, by now, a not-so-perfect example of fundamentalism. Read this by a top-ranking Southern Baptist:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/17/opinion/have-evangelicals-who-support-...
and then tell me if he's no different from Falwell, Dobson et al.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/17/opinion/have-evangelicals-who-support-...
and then tell me if he's no different from Falwell, Dobson et al.
1
I find it interesting that the author describes the only options for this social grouping as "nostalgia and vulnerability or "real acceptance" rather than love and service to those in need, the core teaching of the one they say they are called to follow. The path of love, service, and humility has always been a "fringe" way of living in our ego-centric world; Trump knows nothing about these attributes, neither does Cruz, Huckabee, Dobson, or Falwell, Jr.
And, of course, I am not sure about most, if not all, of our politicians on this account.
And, of course, I am not sure about most, if not all, of our politicians on this account.
5
I dont think these hateful people should be allowed to call themselves Christians. They should just be Evangelicals. Christian means a follower of Christ's teachings and these guys have more hate in their systems than any group of people short of ISIS. Christ loved all people and preached love. These guys just try to control people and preach hate. I am so glad they are shrinking.
15
I agree with you. Their brand of religion is probably why they welcome the "baby Christian" into their group.
3
Even "Evangelicals" is a bad label. Try reading Christianity Today. No matter what you may think of it, it is NOT a Trumpista magazine!
As a white male evangelical Christian, none of what Jones writes represents me.
I think we all would have a much greater appreciation for each other if we spent a little more time getting to know some of those "thems". I worked at Southern University, I've lived for a long time in Japan, and I am temporarily living in Europe (in Warsaw) and even doing it on a Polish salary. What have you done to _really_ get to know people that are different from you?
I think we all would have a much greater appreciation for each other if we spent a little more time getting to know some of those "thems". I worked at Southern University, I've lived for a long time in Japan, and I am temporarily living in Europe (in Warsaw) and even doing it on a Polish salary. What have you done to _really_ get to know people that are different from you?
3
You raise a good point. The way we live now doesn't give many of us an opportunity to meet different types of people and really get to know them.
1
Early Christians wanted to be lead by Jesus.
Late Christians want to be lead by Trump.
Maybe it's not just the country that has changed for the worse.
Late Christians want to be lead by Trump.
Maybe it's not just the country that has changed for the worse.
7
Funny how the farther the churches drift from the message of Jesus the more people are turned off to, and against said churches. You'd think they might see this, yet instead they double down and preach more hate and divisiveness. The perversion of the Prosperity Gospel and the worship of Mammon are obvious to those on the outside looking on. How the flock can be so blind to the riches and machinations being/done raised in their name is beyond me. But as the numbers quoted here, and as witnessed around the world, maybe people are catching on. One can only hope.
With the crash and burn of the fascist Trump, so maybe will end the rein of Big Church and its flag wrapped body of Christ. One can only hope.
With the crash and burn of the fascist Trump, so maybe will end the rein of Big Church and its flag wrapped body of Christ. One can only hope.
8
I am wondering how many officers involved in recent shootings of black men were christians? We have had plenty of revisionist history foisted on us from conservatives. Evangelicals are now trying to force feed revisionist religion down our collective throats.Convoluted Calvinism has become the last refuge of scoundrels.The separation of church and state is, evidently, the only mistake the founding fathers ever made. Convenient sophistry at its finest.
6
An astounding mish-mash of "Christian" = Protestant and Catholic; "Protestant," and "Evangelical" (a sub-set of Protestant). According to the latest Pew survey, the share of Evangelicals in the population of the USA is increasing!!! The Catholic share is essentially constant (supported by immigration of Latinos) while the share of mainline Protestant (i.e. all Protestants except Evangelicals) is falling.
No doubt some of the values of Evangelicals (both white and black, btw) are losing force -- presumably because non-Evangelicals are dropping them. The number of Evangelicals is not their problem.
No doubt some of the values of Evangelicals (both white and black, btw) are losing force -- presumably because non-Evangelicals are dropping them. The number of Evangelicals is not their problem.
Evangelicals "may find that they have a critical role to play in the revitalization of our civic life" provided they accept a modest role in society. But if they gain some political power, we can expect "more lawsuits and civic unrest, accompanied by ... Increasing polarization along cultural and racial lines"
Guess that's pretty clear. There is nothing in the presentation of evangelicals here to encourage accepting their approach as salutary or in any way mitigating the problems of our times.
Guess that's pretty clear. There is nothing in the presentation of evangelicals here to encourage accepting their approach as salutary or in any way mitigating the problems of our times.
7
So, Dobson wants people to "cut some slack" for that idiot Trump. Well I wish Dobson would ask for the same in regard to women who do not want to bear and raise babies that are unwanted. He might also throw some of that "slack" to the LGBT community for whom he has little regard. He can go eat a pickle as far as I am concerned.
8
This quote concisely summarizes and describes the issue: “Today, white evangelicals are not only experiencing the shrinking of their own ranks, but they are also confronting larger, genuinely new demographic and cultural realities.” In other, this issue has nothing to do with “values,” “faith,” or “traditions,” it is all about power – raw political power.
3
The great mistake that very many evangelical Protestants (and some Catholics) make is to politicize religious issues. More than a thousand years of experience have shown this to be a very bad idea, especially in Europe, where the mixing of church and politics has abetted the virtual extinction of Christianity in some countries. It goes without saying that the example provided by political Islam is even more disastrous. The Israelis, not to be outdone, are compromising the future of their country with ridiculous acts of political Judaism.
If American evangelicals continue on this road, they should be reminded that it arrives at only one place - a dead end.
If American evangelicals continue on this road, they should be reminded that it arrives at only one place - a dead end.
4
Power hungry manipulators cloaked in religious extremism that shelters cognitive dissonance. As for Trump who are these people: merely more numbers to serve his purpose; so he'll say whatever he needs to say to get the numbers - a temporary marriage of convenience between one set of blinders and another. He'll dump them and betray them the first moment it becomes politically expedient to do so, and it will be well-deserved. Meanwhile, God forbid these factions help him win the election - on that I too am religious!
2
Good one. All of Trump's marriages are temporary.
1
So white evangel leaders are supporting a candidate who is in his third marriage who speaks like truck driver. No wonder their churches are losing people.
5
"Mr. Jeffress bluntly said that in the face of perceived threats facing evangelicals, 'I want the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find in that role, and I think that’s where many evangelicals are'.”
Just like Jesus--right, Rev?
Just like Jesus--right, Rev?
8
There's something so odious about Dobson, the ShowerMan, describing Trump as a "baby Christian".
Babies have certain needs: they must be fed... but we all know Baby Don's opinion on breastfeeding. "Disgusting!" he raved as a woman interrupted her deposition to breastfeed her baby and he promptly ran out of the room....
Baby's, real babies, have to urinate and defecate, but Baby Trump went cringe-worthy ballistic when Clinton, during her debates, was a minute late returning from the bathroom break....
He freaks out on germs and is obsessed with women's monthly flow, shrieking about "blood coming from EVERYWHERE!!!"
A "baby Christian"?
Actually, he comes off more as an Alexandrian Christian "Desert Father", Second Century, Common Era, raving about those polluting women, demons, defilers of men, seductresses like that evil Eve...a sexual hysteric on the level of some Saudi Arabian prince or a common-grade Wall Street misogynist.
A "baby Christian".
"Women must be punished!" he swears.
I've never heard anything so foolish in my life.
Christianity has sunk to a new low.
Babies have certain needs: they must be fed... but we all know Baby Don's opinion on breastfeeding. "Disgusting!" he raved as a woman interrupted her deposition to breastfeed her baby and he promptly ran out of the room....
Baby's, real babies, have to urinate and defecate, but Baby Trump went cringe-worthy ballistic when Clinton, during her debates, was a minute late returning from the bathroom break....
He freaks out on germs and is obsessed with women's monthly flow, shrieking about "blood coming from EVERYWHERE!!!"
A "baby Christian"?
Actually, he comes off more as an Alexandrian Christian "Desert Father", Second Century, Common Era, raving about those polluting women, demons, defilers of men, seductresses like that evil Eve...a sexual hysteric on the level of some Saudi Arabian prince or a common-grade Wall Street misogynist.
A "baby Christian".
"Women must be punished!" he swears.
I've never heard anything so foolish in my life.
Christianity has sunk to a new low.
13
As describe rd here, what binds this segment of the population is that they are haters.
Good to learn that their numbers are declining.
Good to learn that their numbers are declining.
7
And I wonder how those evangelicals will feel when Trump tosses them under the bus (along with everyone else) if he wins.
7
They won't feel responsible...they are never responsible for their own actions. They'll feel persecuted.
8
Let's make sure he doesn't.
4
Let's pray he doesn't win.
3
It would be nice if- for once in my lifetime of 36 years- we could finally have a society that isn't being led around by the nose by a bunch of regressive and bigoted religious extremists.
That would be a nice change. For my entire lifetime I've heard nothing but the most excoriating and dehumanizing vitriol coming from American Evangelicals when it comes to LGBT people like myself. I've heard endless hue and cry about the "unborn" providing a veneer for blatant misogyny and a desire to cut and slash our already weak social safety net to punish the poor.
Evangelicals have always been about power and supremacy. Specifically, the supremacy of white, straight, affluent men and the belief that they should be dominant over all aspects of our society, culture, and economy.
I am glad to live in a diverse and multi-cultural nation, where the barriers to success for people of color, women, and LGBT individuals are being slowly dismantled and eroded. The digital revolution and ubiquitous nature of smart phones and the like is only making the process swifter, and making the vestigial inequities more obvious and repellent.
When Trump and his Evangelical hangers-on talk about making "America Great Again" it doesn't sound great to me, it sounds like a nightmare. We are making progress. Let's continue.
That would be a nice change. For my entire lifetime I've heard nothing but the most excoriating and dehumanizing vitriol coming from American Evangelicals when it comes to LGBT people like myself. I've heard endless hue and cry about the "unborn" providing a veneer for blatant misogyny and a desire to cut and slash our already weak social safety net to punish the poor.
Evangelicals have always been about power and supremacy. Specifically, the supremacy of white, straight, affluent men and the belief that they should be dominant over all aspects of our society, culture, and economy.
I am glad to live in a diverse and multi-cultural nation, where the barriers to success for people of color, women, and LGBT individuals are being slowly dismantled and eroded. The digital revolution and ubiquitous nature of smart phones and the like is only making the process swifter, and making the vestigial inequities more obvious and repellent.
When Trump and his Evangelical hangers-on talk about making "America Great Again" it doesn't sound great to me, it sounds like a nightmare. We are making progress. Let's continue.
17
This is nothing more than a marriage of convenience. And Mike Huckleberry's daughter gives the stamp of approval based on Trumplestiltskin's relationship to his children? I guess she was standing there with her fingers in her ears saying "nah nah nah nah" when he was talking about how hot Ivanka is, and how he might be dating her, if only she wasn't his daughter. Funny how his status as a married man wasn't an impediment for him, or the younger Huckleberry, his enabler.
And when he genuflected at Liberty University, he gave away his ignorance of things biblical by trying to identify a favorite biblical passage as "Two Corinthians," rather than the correct "Second Corinthians."
And the evangelicals, for nothing more than convenience, set aside what would be normally disqualifiers: multiple marriages and divorces, as well as his long time involvement with gambling as a casino owner. So they're winning to set aside core beliefs for nothing more than political expediency? Good to know.
And when he genuflected at Liberty University, he gave away his ignorance of things biblical by trying to identify a favorite biblical passage as "Two Corinthians," rather than the correct "Second Corinthians."
And the evangelicals, for nothing more than convenience, set aside what would be normally disqualifiers: multiple marriages and divorces, as well as his long time involvement with gambling as a casino owner. So they're winning to set aside core beliefs for nothing more than political expediency? Good to know.
11
Under our Constitution people are free to hold whatever religious beliefs they wish. Increasingly the courts have also been applying the rationale that brought the "religion clause" of the Second Amendment into being in the first place: the force of the State cannot be used to support or impose one religious belief of a faith group onto others. Up until the 60's and 70's, this was not adhered to in practice. That, in essence, is the "loss" or the Evangelical Christians (and some other religious entities) - something they never had a right to in the first place.
What a lot of Evangelical Christians oppose (e.g. equal rights for gays,women, Sunday shopping,etc.) are supported by other faith traditions (e.g. Methodists, UCC, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Unitarians, Conservative and Reform Judaism, etc).
The "plenty of power" Mr. Trump promises them is one that as President he can constitutionally dispense for political support. Indeed, we should pay special attentions in the upcoming election to partisan political activity by churches. The IRS for years has been turning an intentional blind eye to this.
What a lot of Evangelical Christians oppose (e.g. equal rights for gays,women, Sunday shopping,etc.) are supported by other faith traditions (e.g. Methodists, UCC, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Unitarians, Conservative and Reform Judaism, etc).
The "plenty of power" Mr. Trump promises them is one that as President he can constitutionally dispense for political support. Indeed, we should pay special attentions in the upcoming election to partisan political activity by churches. The IRS for years has been turning an intentional blind eye to this.
7
Thankfully, countless progressive Christians are also engaged in the life of the nation. To name just a handful of groups:
Sojourners: https://sojo.net/
Faithful America (Love thy neighbor. No exceptions): http://www.faithfulamerica.org/
The Christian Left: http://huff.to/29yJ7IF
Bill Moyers & Co.: http://billmoyers.com/
Faithful Democrats: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithfuldemocrats/
Sojourners: https://sojo.net/
Faithful America (Love thy neighbor. No exceptions): http://www.faithfulamerica.org/
The Christian Left: http://huff.to/29yJ7IF
Bill Moyers & Co.: http://billmoyers.com/
Faithful Democrats: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithfuldemocrats/
5
Do these people know that Jesus did not speak English? Or that he was not a white European? Or that he loved the poor and downtrodden, and was not a big fan of the wealthy money-changers?
2
Donald Trump's closeness to his adult children is admirable? What about the time he bragged about his 16 year old daughter's great body? Or the time he said if he wasn't married he would probably be dating her? Admirable? More like creepy.
3
No, he said if she were not his daughter. Big difference.
But he was married when he said it.
But he was married when he said it.
The greatest gift the Founders bequeathed to us was the Freedom from State Religion. Let's not throw it back in their faces.
It is imperative that separation of church and state remain secure. That one religious group should control the country is not something we should aspire to return to. Keep religion out of government unless you want something akin to Saudi Arabian tyranny.
It is imperative that separation of church and state remain secure. That one religious group should control the country is not something we should aspire to return to. Keep religion out of government unless you want something akin to Saudi Arabian tyranny.
2
That these proclaimed evangelicals are supporting a thrice married womanizer who operates casinos and who has verbally disparaged entire groups of Americans shows how anti-Christian they are. Jesus weeps.
3
Christian evangelicals supporting Trump stains the essence of Christianity. It is as if Jesus led the Roman legions to eradicate Jews in his goal to spread Christianity. In other words, supporting Trump to retain power, i.e., 'the end justifies the means' is the epitome of wickedness itself.
3
Let's hope the white evangelicals come to their senses and accept the changing world they are in and reflect that in November.
1
Hypocrites. He's on his third marriage. He committed adultery. He said that he rarely asks for forgiveness. His family worshipped at Marble Collegiate under Norman Vincent Peale and his successor, Arthur Caliandro.
What are the beliefs and concepts that he now rejects? When and Why? It seems as if evangelicals have failed to ask any important questions.
What are the beliefs and concepts that he now rejects? When and Why? It seems as if evangelicals have failed to ask any important questions.
2
Could these ministers please enumerate for me which issues and values align between the teachings of Jesus and Donald Trump?
2
Every four years the evangelicals are suckered by some right wing candidate.
And every four years they are thrown under the bus after the election.
Trump could not be a more blatant example of the type that does this.
But then the evangelicals patronise phoney arks and phoney wealth preachers too.
And every four years they are thrown under the bus after the election.
Trump could not be a more blatant example of the type that does this.
But then the evangelicals patronise phoney arks and phoney wealth preachers too.
3
I thought Christianity was the religion of 'love' and "forgiveness."
Evangelicals are turning their religion upside down by supporting a candidate who espouses hate. Now we see who they really are.
Evangelicals are turning their religion upside down by supporting a candidate who espouses hate. Now we see who they really are.
2
Its time to tax religious institutions.
5
A known con man professing faux-faith. It’s hard to believe anyone could really fall for it. It’s much easier to believe that Trump’s evangelical followers are more interested in his hateful racism and nationalism, and his aggressive sense of entitlement than his obviously superficial Christianity. So, forget about the right-to-life, the family values and their moral superiority. These evangelicals have exposed their true nature.
5
Trump:
“because if I’m there, you’re going to have plenty of power — you don’t need anybody else.”
Wake up people! This is exactly what the framers of constitution did not want. This scares me the most.
One of the worse things in this country is a ideological, zealous, and hardline Christian.
What could this new Christian Power do for this country?
Bow 5 times a day at the name of "Jesus"?
Fined for not attending church on Sundays and any other day that the Christian "imams" designate?
Women will cover their heads during services and also in public (remember the Catholic church once required this and it is still argued about in many Conservation churches)?
No Contraception for women (but Viagra for men is allowed)?
Divorce for infidelity only (you can beat your wife just don't cheat)?
Thank the founders of this country for the second Amendment. When the religious police come to my door, they will have to drag my cold dead body to church.
“because if I’m there, you’re going to have plenty of power — you don’t need anybody else.”
Wake up people! This is exactly what the framers of constitution did not want. This scares me the most.
One of the worse things in this country is a ideological, zealous, and hardline Christian.
What could this new Christian Power do for this country?
Bow 5 times a day at the name of "Jesus"?
Fined for not attending church on Sundays and any other day that the Christian "imams" designate?
Women will cover their heads during services and also in public (remember the Catholic church once required this and it is still argued about in many Conservation churches)?
No Contraception for women (but Viagra for men is allowed)?
Divorce for infidelity only (you can beat your wife just don't cheat)?
Thank the founders of this country for the second Amendment. When the religious police come to my door, they will have to drag my cold dead body to church.
3
After reading this editorial, I keep getting one dreaded message:
These so-called 'christians' possess a creepy and incessant belief that they and only they, have the divine right to stick their collective noses into lives, livelihoods, personal decisions and families that are none of their business to begin with.
Not only is this the height of being un-American, but should be THE core reason thinking and caring citizens should want these people far from the levers of governmental power.
This article proves a continual and deep disregard of our constitution and bill of rights amongst these earnest evangelicals, who believe in usurping them to gain control over our government and enforce its biblical worldview, by whatever means possible, even through someone as flawed as The Donald.
Whatever 'message' of spiritual salvation was long ago lost in their overt intolerance towards a seemingly ever-larger segment of our fellow citizenry.
Should the unthinkable happen and DJT win the election, fear for your fellow non-evangelicals, disfavored minorities, LGBT family and friends, women, intellectuals, and anyone else whose targeted by these scripture pimps.
Their lives will suddenly be under a dark existence and far from any 'hope' these so-called christians claim they want 'restored'.
These so-called 'christians' possess a creepy and incessant belief that they and only they, have the divine right to stick their collective noses into lives, livelihoods, personal decisions and families that are none of their business to begin with.
Not only is this the height of being un-American, but should be THE core reason thinking and caring citizens should want these people far from the levers of governmental power.
This article proves a continual and deep disregard of our constitution and bill of rights amongst these earnest evangelicals, who believe in usurping them to gain control over our government and enforce its biblical worldview, by whatever means possible, even through someone as flawed as The Donald.
Whatever 'message' of spiritual salvation was long ago lost in their overt intolerance towards a seemingly ever-larger segment of our fellow citizenry.
Should the unthinkable happen and DJT win the election, fear for your fellow non-evangelicals, disfavored minorities, LGBT family and friends, women, intellectuals, and anyone else whose targeted by these scripture pimps.
Their lives will suddenly be under a dark existence and far from any 'hope' these so-called christians claim they want 'restored'.
5
“I want the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find in that role, and I think that’s where many evangelicals are.”
Mr. Jeffress, you are supposed to put your faith in God's strength. But then, I've noticed that many fundamentalist Christians don't seem to have a real faith in Christianity—loving your enemies, doing good to those who hate you, being salt and light. They don't feel safe unless they can dominate in earthly ways.
So what they really trust in is not Jesus Christ, not living like Jesus Christ, but the military and force and a "son-of-a-you-know-what".
They need to reread the New Testament—particularly that sorta important part about how Jesus acted when faced with arrest and death. Hint: He did not rely on a son-of-a-you-know-what to get him out of it.
Mr. Jeffress, you are supposed to put your faith in God's strength. But then, I've noticed that many fundamentalist Christians don't seem to have a real faith in Christianity—loving your enemies, doing good to those who hate you, being salt and light. They don't feel safe unless they can dominate in earthly ways.
So what they really trust in is not Jesus Christ, not living like Jesus Christ, but the military and force and a "son-of-a-you-know-what".
They need to reread the New Testament—particularly that sorta important part about how Jesus acted when faced with arrest and death. Hint: He did not rely on a son-of-a-you-know-what to get him out of it.
3
The only miracle I see that occurs in the lives of these so-called Christians is the unbelievable ability to reconcile the teachings of Jesus to the bombast of Donald Trump.
2
Re: "Most notably, James C. Dobson, the founder and former director of Focus on the Family — who remains an influential figure in conservative Christian circles — claimed that he had secondhand knowledge that Mr. Trump had recently come “to accept a relationship with Christ” and that Mr. Trump should be “cut some slack” as “a baby Christian.”"
Does that mean that the Donald is a Sudden Baptist?
Does that mean that the Donald is a Sudden Baptist?
6
What Donald Trump's popularity among white evangelicals and some conservatives proves is not that they are hypocrites (though that is a tempting conclusion), but that their values are both negotiable and selectively applied. In this they are like most people. Those of us on the left should remind ourselves from time to time that if a Republican candidate for President had been publicly upbraided, as Hillary Clinton was recently by FBI Director Comey, we'd be the first to call him or her "unacceptable". And, it would be nice if our fellow citizens on the religious right would cop to the fact that the same Donald Trump, running as a Democrat (which, given his voting record and mix of positions, could very well have happened) would quickly be labeled an immoral heathen and attacked relentlessly as such. The fact is that most people are willing to compromise, on even the most seemingly sacred of issues, when it means securing a win for their team. Admitting this would signal a useful first step toward political reconciliation.
2
You make a great point but I'm going to point out that many Democrats are very unhappy with Hillary and always have been.
Hmmmm. I wonder if this parallels the thought process of the American Indians from 1620 to the late 1800's? I don't think we learned their language, their religion, respected their values, their "borders" nor cared about their being displaced by the growing number of immigrants overrunning their "towns" and destroying their traditional way of life. Because God was on "our" side, not with the "savages". But a just God can be an insensitive God sometimes. Maybe, just maybe there might be a timber in some evangelical eyes that needs to be removed.
7
Micah 6:8.
“He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.”
Sure sounds like these guys, right ?
“He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.”
Sure sounds like these guys, right ?
5
Like nearly every other article on religion, the article confuses evangelicals with "Protestantism". I work for a mainline Protestant church and I've seen no sign of the hysteria that the article describes. It exists mostly on the lunatic fringe.
The one complaint that I might consider legitimate is the fact that an ethnic group that makes up 45 percent of the population has no representation on the Supreme Court.
The one complaint that I might consider legitimate is the fact that an ethnic group that makes up 45 percent of the population has no representation on the Supreme Court.
1
Evangelicals aren't an ethnicity.
4
A young woman once told me, "I can commit any sin I want, because I've accepted Jesus as my savior and I know I'm forgiven!" Getting to be common thinking, maybe?
6
As a white Christian American, I'm horrified by the endorsements provided to Mr. Trump by Dr. Dobson and other evangelicals! I'm more than ever convinced that the Christian evangelical preaching crowd has sold out and abandoned their core principles. Of course that doesn't mean that the true Christian community has also abandoned their faith, but the Jerry Falwells and Jimmy Swaggarts of the world were never the best examples of Christianity! Christianity began as a minority faith and prospered, not so much because the early Christians were wealthy or in positions of power, but because of the message of Christianity. That message is timeless and has a unique power to provide hope to the hopeless, shelter to those who are lost, and encouragement to the faint-hearted. Christianity can do very well without Donald Trump and his supporters!
5
I'm also horrified (but no longer surprised) by supposedly educated people who really believe that ALL (or even the proverbial 99% of) Christians or evangelicals are Trump supporters or young-earth creationists. They're nothing but the mirror image of those who think all atheists are lawless and evil.
See the CNN piece I linked to in another comment. And see this, in these pages, by a real evangelical leader:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/17/opinion/have-evangelicals-who-support-...
See the CNN piece I linked to in another comment. And see this, in these pages, by a real evangelical leader:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/17/opinion/have-evangelicals-who-support-...
Evangelical movements are grounded in an alternative reality with asatisfying narrative that justifies their preferred beliefs. A 'baby christian" is one who doesn't have the full set of christian jargon (not unlike the business jargon one gets with an mba). Their belief system matters to them, but has no grounding in verifiable fact.
3
As a retired pastor, I can tell you that the religious right's strong identification with the Republican Party has been damaging to both the country and the Church. They do not represent all Christians.
17
The self-described "Christians" who have bowed down to the Mammon of the Republican Party for the past 50 years haven't the foggiest notion of what their Christ believed or preached. They have not heard his message in their churches or Bible-study groups or from their pulpits. They are the very opposite of the followers of Jesus.
No true Christian can, or does, support Trump. Period.
No true Christian can, or does, support Trump. Period.
6
I think Goethe wrote most eloquently about this. No need to embellish.
1
So, according to James Dobson, Trump is a "baby" Christian. That doesn't seem quite rigth. I think Trump is actually a younger Christian than even that, in fact, he's so young he hasn't even been born yet -- an unborn re-born Christian. Yes, that's it: an unborn re-born.
4
seems to me that all the socalled evangelicals have forgotten this passage: "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
2
This is truly what America needs; a white, Protestant minority that is homophobic, misogynistic, white supremacist, and believing to a man (remember women are only breeders) in the inviolability of the second amendment. It's not America of the 1950s, it's the know-nothings of the 1850s.
84
There are exceptions, especially Millennials, but when you peel away the layers of white christian thinking there is an ugly pit of racism at its core. Any religion has as its center a set of core beliefs that do not rely on empirical or rational evidence. The Christian religion isn't about choice, it's about obedience to doctrine. Implicit in that belief system is a powerful rejection of "the other". When you apply that concept to race, sexual orientation, and women's issues, doctrine, not freedom of choice dominates. It's easy to see why Evangelicals would connect to Donald Trump. Studies have shown that Trump's authoritarianism is what appeals to Trump voters. Religion is by nature authoritarian. There is a natural connection.
73
Tarring all Christians with the same brush makes you just as bad as the Religious Wrong!
1
@Paulette B Please accurately read what I wrote "There are exceptions especially Millennials" I'm not saying all.However, I honestly believe it applys to a very significant number. If you examine Christian stands on issues that primarily affect monorities I think the evidence is quite overwhelming.
The evangelicals named in this article do NOT represent most American Christians. Most people of my acquaintance who claim to be Christian live their faith, including trying to lead good lives and tolerance (and interest) in other faiths and other nationalities and skin colors.
I'm blessed to live in a neighborhood of Paterson, New Jersey, where this is so.
These "political Christians" are more interested in money and power, and would probably have some choice, nasty words if they encountered the Jesus of Scripture.
I'm blessed to live in a neighborhood of Paterson, New Jersey, where this is so.
These "political Christians" are more interested in money and power, and would probably have some choice, nasty words if they encountered the Jesus of Scripture.
50
Unfortunately, I know far too many of the evangelical variety of christian. Article is spot on describing them. Funny though that when I was a child - they believed less in meddling with government and now they want to use it as a tool to force others to bend to their will. Very un-Jesus like.
4
Like it or not, America, like human consciousness, is gradually evolving into a compassionate and inclusive society. That is the simply natural way of things. Resistance, reflected in the evangelical embracing of creationism, where humans were put on Earth fully evolved and (white) Christians are ordained to have dominion over all lesser races of humans and animals, is futile. But, sadly, it will cause a lot of problems along the way.
25
"I want the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find in that role, and I think that’s where many evangelicals are."
Because nothing describes "turn the other cheek" Jesus more than the "meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what". For a group that talks about "What would Jesus do?", they seem remarkably averse to doing what Jesus would do.
Now, it is true that white evangelicals are no longer dominant in the US. I think that's a good thing: The whole point of the First Amendment is that no religious viewpoint should be dominating our nation. The whole point of the Fourteenth Amendment is that no racial group should be dominating our nation. How about instead of mourning the loss of the dominance of "our" group, we instead celebrate the diversity of this nation, one that has among other things led to many important religious movements, including but not limited to the Second Great Awakening that formed the roots of modern evangelical Christianity.
Because nothing describes "turn the other cheek" Jesus more than the "meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what". For a group that talks about "What would Jesus do?", they seem remarkably averse to doing what Jesus would do.
Now, it is true that white evangelicals are no longer dominant in the US. I think that's a good thing: The whole point of the First Amendment is that no religious viewpoint should be dominating our nation. The whole point of the Fourteenth Amendment is that no racial group should be dominating our nation. How about instead of mourning the loss of the dominance of "our" group, we instead celebrate the diversity of this nation, one that has among other things led to many important religious movements, including but not limited to the Second Great Awakening that formed the roots of modern evangelical Christianity.
55
I am a seminary graduate and have had many evangelical friends over the years. The ordinary evangelical is usually a very good hearted person with the same goals and desires as the rest of us once you get beneath the rhetoric. They often too have apt critiques of the blind spots, arrogance and hypocrisy that sometimes infects progressivism. Sometimes the old prosperity gospel is far less hyopcritical than the pieties of a liberal raking in big money telling everybody else to sacrifice. Sometimes policies that bring pleasure to well-educated professionals, like a woman's right to work, become misery enforced on a working class woman, who becomes a wage slave blamed and shamed for not taking care of her kids. That being said, the leadership of the evangelical movement bears much comparison to other nationalist, fascistic churches, such as the Aryan church under Hitler. Their crime is in distorting a gospel message of love, peace, mercy, humility and service to others into power politics. But they know how to appeal to people who don't have desire or time to read and think. These are often intelligent but not intellectual people. The evangelicals also know how to frame a narrative, how to plug into comforting archetypes that may not be literally true but which speak to utopic perceptions and offer community. Why the left can no longer do this is beyond me, but I believe, if I take seriously the belittlements of evangelicals in many comments, it roots in arrogance.
168
"Why the left can no longer do this is beyond me..." I doubt "the left" ever had that ability. FDR was eloquent but he may be viewed as a conservative with a conscience and a sense of enlightened self-interest. Lefties see so many options that they are chronically divided. Righties are easily united because they have so few distracting ideas.
2
There appears to me to be plenty of arrogance to go around, but the paper tiger of "the liberal raking in big money" or even "the left" in general is a dead horse, to mix metaphors. Far more common seems to be the wealthy right winger funding mayhem and in favor of anything to further his wealth and status. Unlike "the liberal raking in big money", the rich guy only concerned with his own earthly wealth is specifically called out in the evangelicals' own holy book.
Only slightly less common is the self-appointed "peacemaker" who sets himself up as the voice of reason and declaims both sides equally wrong. But in these times it is a false equivalence. Conservatives have sprinted ever further to the right over the last 40 years, to the point that today's "liberals" and "left" you find so intolerably hypocritical are slightly to the right of Nixon. The author does a reasonable job of offering a partial explanation for the frenzied move to the right. No need to set yourself up as Solomon here.
Only slightly less common is the self-appointed "peacemaker" who sets himself up as the voice of reason and declaims both sides equally wrong. But in these times it is a false equivalence. Conservatives have sprinted ever further to the right over the last 40 years, to the point that today's "liberals" and "left" you find so intolerably hypocritical are slightly to the right of Nixon. The author does a reasonable job of offering a partial explanation for the frenzied move to the right. No need to set yourself up as Solomon here.
9
Apologize much?
Nostalgia for a time gone by and not to return again -
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/11/opinion/among-the-little-englanders.ht...
Problem is, the Little Englanders won. Let's hope, pray, and work to make sure that this strain of nostalgia doesn't carry the day here this fall.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/11/opinion/among-the-little-englanders.ht...
Problem is, the Little Englanders won. Let's hope, pray, and work to make sure that this strain of nostalgia doesn't carry the day here this fall.
12
I believe that Mr. Jones' "slip is showing." It seems to me that the author and author's points are really about race and not religion.
I simply want to ask what is the purpose of the construction of his sentence?:
"When Barack Obama was elected president in 2008, white Christians (Catholics and Protestants) constituted a majority (54 percent) of the country; today, that number has slipped to 45 percent."
Furthermore, Mr. Roberts engages in a wholly misleading statistical analysis when he writes about "evangelicals," and then statistically lumps together Protestants and Catholics to make his point of "white Christian demise." (According to a 2015 Pew Foundation study, one of the fastest growing diverse populations of any Christian denomination is within the ranks of the Roman Catholic.)
I think the true Trump story is more about race than religion. In fact, if you look at the demographics of the Trump vote, you can pretty much leave religion out of it.
I simply want to ask what is the purpose of the construction of his sentence?:
"When Barack Obama was elected president in 2008, white Christians (Catholics and Protestants) constituted a majority (54 percent) of the country; today, that number has slipped to 45 percent."
Furthermore, Mr. Roberts engages in a wholly misleading statistical analysis when he writes about "evangelicals," and then statistically lumps together Protestants and Catholics to make his point of "white Christian demise." (According to a 2015 Pew Foundation study, one of the fastest growing diverse populations of any Christian denomination is within the ranks of the Roman Catholic.)
I think the true Trump story is more about race than religion. In fact, if you look at the demographics of the Trump vote, you can pretty much leave religion out of it.
8
I too found it problematic that the author conflated "white Protestant" with "white evangelicals".
My Dad was a "white Protestant" and desegregated two "mainline" Protestant churches. He was appalled by what he saw in the growing white evangelical community. No doubt he is rolling in his grave now.
My Dad was a "white Protestant" and desegregated two "mainline" Protestant churches. He was appalled by what he saw in the growing white evangelical community. No doubt he is rolling in his grave now.
3
I think it is both race and religion. The Southern Baptist Convention was a strong proponent of slavery, "proof texting" the legitimacy of slavery and the "rightness" of Africans as slaves.
2
Also, most if not all mainline Christian churches defend traditional hierarchies. The Carholic church opposes equal rights for women because they see it as a threat to their all-male clergy and hierarchy.
2
People happened to be white. Some happened to protest in the spirit, in written word, for the very beliefs of their faith! It had nothing to do with the color of their skin! Even less with politics.
If those white protestants where alive today, they would be protesting, in spirit, against the evangelicals, the trumps, and every one else who is a demagog. You can not be an iota of
the shadow that they did cast upon the earth. As far as I perceive, those individuals who protested for the principles of their faith - right or wrong - they have disowned you. They would not have you as descendants!!!!!
If those white protestants where alive today, they would be protesting, in spirit, against the evangelicals, the trumps, and every one else who is a demagog. You can not be an iota of
the shadow that they did cast upon the earth. As far as I perceive, those individuals who protested for the principles of their faith - right or wrong - they have disowned you. They would not have you as descendants!!!!!
1
Dear White Christian America: we Jews have been a minority pretty much forever. If you think you can't lead normal, tolerant, integrated lives as a minority—and, at 40% to our 2%, a pretty sizable minority at that—you simply aren't trying hard enough.
It's time to grow up.
It's time to grow up.
1098
Best post of the day.
6
Furthermore, Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism and if we, the Jewish people hadn't protected you in your early days, you wouldn't be a major religion. You would continue to be a small sect of Jews.
6
Yes, Evangelicals, as the man said, "It's time to grow up." Meaning, that you must accept the fact that society is now too complex for your hegemony over it to be regarded as nothing but an entitlement for continuing unearned (thus illegitimate) influence over the lives of others who define their dignity as we wish. No religion holds a monopoly on wisdom and virtue. So yes, grow up or wish to be born yet again. and again.
5
Trump is the last worst hope of White Christians in America. It's over for them. How will they react when he goes down to a resounding defeat? How will Trump react? Those pent up emotions of anger, fear, and security must be released somehow. Those ingrained biases must come out someway. That's my fear. Not just the possible re-strengthening of the Tea Party movement. But the existence of guns, guns, guns.
17
I would say that the evangelicals are living in La La Land, if they think that trump will honor any promises to them. I never cease to be amazed how people can fool themselves into believing something that is observably false.
42
I'm a white evangelical Protestant who is disgusted by Trump. There are many other evangelical Christians who vote Democrat (Democrats for Life a wonderful group) and use their intellect and reason as well as their faith. It seems that some American Christians have lost touch with tenets of Jesus Christ. Perhaps living in a materialistic, capitalism-above-all-else factors in. We Christians in America need to pray, read the words of Jesus and live by them.
23
"Rather than trying to defend Mr. Trump’s Christian credentials, Mr. Jeffress bluntly said that in the face of perceived threats facing evangelicals, “I want the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find in that role, and I think that’s where many evangelicals are."
I don't recall this from theSermon on the Mount. Must come from another chapter and verse.
I don't recall this from theSermon on the Mount. Must come from another chapter and verse.
390
Reality says every last evangelical is a deluded fool. No wonder they are suckers for con artists.
3
I think it comes from Two Corinthians...
3
Jim, one recognizes you are citing the New Testament. It is inferable that Mr. Jeffress uses a different Bible which might be threatening evangelicals.
These white evangelicals need to look into their own souls and the challenges which modernity offers. be more honest and know that the truth shall set you free.
32
Failure to enforce "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" on that body of fools only attracts more fools to run for public offices.
3
So, politics is not a place to which we turn seeking justice or equality. It is not a place where we look for economic stability, security from the dangers of the world, or competent and honest management of the government. It's not where we should expect to find inspiration, patriotism, or a national identity, nor promotion of our arts and sciences... Politics, rather, is where we look to get a leg up on other factions in society of which we disapprove... I knew it!
75
This reminds me that for all the people I've met who claim to be true Christians, I don't believe I've ever met one.
72
I have met Christians who really practiced what they preached. For example, one guy I knew was the kindest, gentlest, most generous person you've ever met, who spent most of his life supporting anti-war organizations. So I know they exist.
But here's the thing: They don't go around saying "Rah rah, I'm a Christian! Watch how holy I am!" They show their faith through their actions. They remember Jesus' advice on doing their prayers in their bedrooms with the door locked, not in the public spaces where everyone can watch them.
But here's the thing: They don't go around saying "Rah rah, I'm a Christian! Watch how holy I am!" They show their faith through their actions. They remember Jesus' advice on doing their prayers in their bedrooms with the door locked, not in the public spaces where everyone can watch them.
19
If you're speaking out of the doctrine of original sin, you're right.
Otherwise you need to get out more.
Otherwise you need to get out more.
oiC, you're talking about those who "claim to be true Christians." Those are a self-selected bunch.
The white Christians are losing ground in this country, surprise, surprise.
I worked as a Parish Nurse for 18 months after I retired from a career of case management and other nursing services, including ER, Med Surg, school nursing and a few other opportunities.
I could not believe the meanness I saw coming through the the church office - and I mean often. The Parish Council met in private at times, making decisions that were very hurtful behind closed doors. The parishioners were led like weak sheep, and praising God while doing it. Many members were somewhat wealthy and it seemed money ruled. When they had a fortunate experience, they bragged about being "so blessed" which made me wonder about the poorer people in the community - were they not "so blessed" then?
They had cliques who made decisions of whether others were basically in or out. Their snubbing was not like I had ever experienced. The picking and choosing was despicable.
Money was the bottom line - either begging or praising. Sundays could either be "so blessed" or never enough.
Gossip was rampant.
My eyes were blind going in. Parish Nursing was something I always thought would be a good way to wind up a career, being able to use my experience and knowledge gained through the years in a faith based, kind and loving, personal venue, a church. Wrong!
I know a lot of churches do not fit the above description, but I know a lot do.
If Trump gets in, will this country be "so blessed"?
I worked as a Parish Nurse for 18 months after I retired from a career of case management and other nursing services, including ER, Med Surg, school nursing and a few other opportunities.
I could not believe the meanness I saw coming through the the church office - and I mean often. The Parish Council met in private at times, making decisions that were very hurtful behind closed doors. The parishioners were led like weak sheep, and praising God while doing it. Many members were somewhat wealthy and it seemed money ruled. When they had a fortunate experience, they bragged about being "so blessed" which made me wonder about the poorer people in the community - were they not "so blessed" then?
They had cliques who made decisions of whether others were basically in or out. Their snubbing was not like I had ever experienced. The picking and choosing was despicable.
Money was the bottom line - either begging or praising. Sundays could either be "so blessed" or never enough.
Gossip was rampant.
My eyes were blind going in. Parish Nursing was something I always thought would be a good way to wind up a career, being able to use my experience and knowledge gained through the years in a faith based, kind and loving, personal venue, a church. Wrong!
I know a lot of churches do not fit the above description, but I know a lot do.
If Trump gets in, will this country be "so blessed"?
193
Seems like evangelicals could use 40 years in the wilderness; that would be a learning experience in what persecution is really like.
America has become a multi-cultural nation - and this ethos of multiculturalism necessarily extends to the realm of ethics and values.
There are two competing narratives of our American origins - one postulating that America was born as a Christian nation, the other that America began as an experiment in the ethos of Enlightenment.
The former narrative moors America to an archaic worldview that it has rarely, if ever, lived up to, while the latter allows the nation to cross the ocean of antiquity to a defensible vision of truth and justice for the 21st century.
No good can come from allowing one's self or nation to be moored to a rarely observed ethos of the distant past. And make no mistake, the alleged Christians who flock to Trump today are little different than the sanctimonious hypocrites that the historical Jesus harshly criticized in the gospels.
That James Dobson could claim that Trump is "a baby Christian", when Politifact has demonstrated that 75% of his statements on the campaign stump are lies, illustrates just how self-deluded these religious reactionaries have become.
Donald Trump may be as perfect an embodiment of The Beast of biblical yore of as any we have yet seen in American history. Here is a man completely beyond a concern for truth, wholly dedicated to the relentless acquisition of temporal power and gratification of the senses.
With Christians like Dobson and Huckabee enthusiastically supporting Trump, I can well imagine why Jesus never returned.
There are two competing narratives of our American origins - one postulating that America was born as a Christian nation, the other that America began as an experiment in the ethos of Enlightenment.
The former narrative moors America to an archaic worldview that it has rarely, if ever, lived up to, while the latter allows the nation to cross the ocean of antiquity to a defensible vision of truth and justice for the 21st century.
No good can come from allowing one's self or nation to be moored to a rarely observed ethos of the distant past. And make no mistake, the alleged Christians who flock to Trump today are little different than the sanctimonious hypocrites that the historical Jesus harshly criticized in the gospels.
That James Dobson could claim that Trump is "a baby Christian", when Politifact has demonstrated that 75% of his statements on the campaign stump are lies, illustrates just how self-deluded these religious reactionaries have become.
Donald Trump may be as perfect an embodiment of The Beast of biblical yore of as any we have yet seen in American history. Here is a man completely beyond a concern for truth, wholly dedicated to the relentless acquisition of temporal power and gratification of the senses.
With Christians like Dobson and Huckabee enthusiastically supporting Trump, I can well imagine why Jesus never returned.
275
I don't think Dobson is self-deluded at all, Mr. Carnicelli. I think Dobson is quite consciously and cynically backing Trump in a political power play. And there is a third narrative of American origins, the one that says America is a result of colonialism, genocide, and slavery.
4
Only one of the narratives is based in reality.
“The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams
“The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams
3
Well said, Matthew. When Trumplestiltskin was asked what his favorite biblical passage was, he undoubtedly responded: "Two Corinthians walked into a casino..."
5
How sad that this article is even printed in such an important newspaper. Although I suppose the New York Times does have an obligation to report on the tenor of the country, including what shenanigans crackpots and other unhinged elements in our midst are up to to create discord.
The Evangelicals' righteous indignation is beyond belief (no pun intended). When were they not allowed to practice their brand of Christianity? If not saying "Merry Christmas," as a political sledgehammer is a problem for them, then too bad. You would think they were treated now the way they treated blacks, women, Catholics, Jews and other assorted undesirables in the past.
Their belief in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus is what allows them to be suckered in by a man who is hoodwinking them for votes; the only God the sick Mr. Thump believes in is himself.
What a bunch of nasty, self-righteous shysters these Evangelical bullies are.
The Evangelicals' righteous indignation is beyond belief (no pun intended). When were they not allowed to practice their brand of Christianity? If not saying "Merry Christmas," as a political sledgehammer is a problem for them, then too bad. You would think they were treated now the way they treated blacks, women, Catholics, Jews and other assorted undesirables in the past.
Their belief in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus is what allows them to be suckered in by a man who is hoodwinking them for votes; the only God the sick Mr. Thump believes in is himself.
What a bunch of nasty, self-righteous shysters these Evangelical bullies are.
256
This is an opinion piece, not an article.
I think it is important for those of us who believe in true Christian principals but also believe in tolerance and teaching by example rather than coercion read articles like this to understand the thinking of those we disagree with.
2
Susan H, according to Suz, the schoolmarm, this is an opinion piece, not an article. We (at least, I) stand corrected.
These superstitious people that are willing to accept Trump for profits of earthly destruction and gilded eternity seem like a marriage made in heaven to me.
33
I wish the author would not lump all "white Christians" into this camp. In fact, many abhor Trump and the "white evangelicals" who espouse such vitriolic hatred for "otherness." In the United Church of Christ we are truly horrified at Trump and those who support him, for they are anything but Christian. We follow the biblical imperative to welcome the widow, the orphan, AND the stranger. We work intentionally to have this "radical welcome" and an open table of Christ that invites all who walk through the door, regardless of race, color, national origin, or sexual orientation. We ordain LGBT persons. Please look around at what other Christians are saying and doing. We are out there trying to find ways to embrace and support all human beings, not only praying and gathering to mourn but taking action to try and effect change and resist the haters. Those of us in the UCC who are are white and Christian don't want to be lumped in with "white evangelicals," who themselves hate many in our community of Christ.
732
Thank you, Carla. As a life-long member of the UCC, I have a reminder to all Christians: they will know we are Christians by our love.
11
His family worshipped at Marble Collegiate under Norman Vincent Peale and Arthur Caliandro. Rev. Caliandro officiated his second marriage to Marla Maples there. "Baby Christian"? No, unless Dobson implies that somehow evangelicals are the only Christians.
1
The author speaks consistently of "white evangelical Christians" rather than "white Christians," so you might consider giving him a break. No doubt there are some -- at least a few -- "white evangelicals" who are just as appalled by Trump and his fans as are most members of the UCC, even if one has to wonder what those evangelicals make of the statements issued by their religious leaders. Jones is not talking about Christianity itself but about a poisonous entanglement of race, religion, culture and politics that is of a much more recent vintage.
5
I'm always amused by the Evangelical rhetorical frame that they -- the most politically powerful wing of the largest religion of the most powerful nation on earth -- are being persecuted because they don't get all the marbles all the time. I'd suspect ninety percent of those groups actually persecuted on earth for being who they are would, if plunked into such a situation, would think they'd (metaphorically) died and gone to heaven.
41
Biblical Sunday school lessons so many Christians ignore: Wealth corrupts the soul; Christians are not to involve themselves in worldly affairs; When you pray, pray in your closet and don't make a show of your faith. I often catch myself hoping that there really be a Judgement Day, and that we all get to watch.
48
Make America great again is simply code for make America White Again! That is what these people want and have been fighting and praying about, and lobbying for since Brown vs. Board of Education. Seriously where in the New Testament did Jesus say anything that nearly resembles the venom, hatred and racist xenophobia expressed and espoused by Donald Trump! This is what gave the evangelicals power and influence over the Republican Party, and made Jerry Falwell and others like him have the ability to influence the GOP and their minions. No serious God fearing , true believer could ever embrace Donald Trump , the positions he takes or the life and lifestyle he has led. It is the height of hypocrisy. But fear , anger and resentment towards those different , towards those being granted equal rights is enough to make them forswear all of their alleged principles to embrace a demagogue who they think will slaughter the beast that is change.
55
Most evangelical leaders are the modern-day spiritual heirs of the money-changers that Christ threw out of the temple, so why wouldn't they want a money-changer-in-chief in the White House?
182
If you want to know what sin concerned Jesus most of all, you can tell by mere word count. The most frequent term of condemnation he uses in the Gospels--nothing else even comes close--has nothing to do with sexual mores or gays or anything of that nature. It is, however, the perfect term for the "evangelicals'" expedient embrace of a sybaritic grifter like Donald Trump, and for his farcical--yet apparently successful--attempt to paint himself as one of them. That term, in its several forms, is "hypocrite."
134
The evangelical sheep have lost their way. When they follow a folksy snake like Huckabee or a master of distortion like Dobson they deserve a grifter like Trump
103
Yeah, but we don't deserve him. Would most Americans really want to live in a country run by such a charlatan as Trump? Evidently nearly 1/2 of the voters do. The irony here, as others have said, is that Trump could care less about evangelicals, except to get their vote. But since money is the real god of so many "Christians", then they have that in common.
3
The loss of primacy that white evangelicals supposedly feel is a reduction in their power to force others to act in ways that they, the white evangelical Christians, have decided is in keeping with their beliefs. Too bad. No one is saying that they can't have their beliefs, or live their lives in keeping with their beliefs, inasmuch as they don't intersect or interfere with our lives and rights. There is at best a paper-thin difference between their thinking and that of other religious extremists, such as the Taliban.
42
I've often wondered that if they moved to Iran, they could have the perfect society - subjugation of women, little personal freedom, theocracy, hate for the other. However, the money thing would make it hard for them in a theocracy.
5
The meek shall inherit the earth - but not the mineral rights under it - John D Rockerfeller
4
Baby Christian, indeed. Imagine Donald Trump's reaction if he actually read the Bible.
*And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand.
"Who'd build his house on sand? Foolish? He'd have to be a complete moron."
*There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
"Who cares? Successful businessmen file for bankruptcy all the time. It's called taking advantage of the law."
*And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater.
"And it's going to be fabulous. The most amazing building in Manhattan. I won't put up my own money, of course. That's for suckers."
*Hence I have said to you, "You are to possess their land, and I Myself will give it to you to possess it, a land flowing with milk and honey."
"Milk and honey? OK. What it really needs is 18 holes. And I'm the guy to make it happen."
*Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."
Not when I'm president!
*And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand.
"Who'd build his house on sand? Foolish? He'd have to be a complete moron."
*There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
"Who cares? Successful businessmen file for bankruptcy all the time. It's called taking advantage of the law."
*And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater.
"And it's going to be fabulous. The most amazing building in Manhattan. I won't put up my own money, of course. That's for suckers."
*Hence I have said to you, "You are to possess their land, and I Myself will give it to you to possess it, a land flowing with milk and honey."
"Milk and honey? OK. What it really needs is 18 holes. And I'm the guy to make it happen."
*Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."
Not when I'm president!
48
Donald Trump told Anderson Cooper that he had nothing to repent of. In this he disagrees with Jesus and the apostles, whose evangelistic invitations were calls to repentance.
I wish Cooper had confronted Trump with 1 John 1:8-10:
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
I wish Cooper had confronted Trump with 1 John 1:8-10:
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
1
Cruz wanted this. Huckabee too. It has been a Republican staple for many years.
Trump was not really part of that. It was used in opposition to him.
Given his personal history and what he's said, it just isn't him. He might make an alliance, but this is greatly overblown.
Trump was not really part of that. It was used in opposition to him.
Given his personal history and what he's said, it just isn't him. He might make an alliance, but this is greatly overblown.
9
What's the "this" that Cruz and Huckabee wanted, Mark Thomason? The restoration of White Christian America? The fact that someone as crassly secular and materialistic as Trump can bring the evangelical "leaders" over to his side by merely hinting at the prospect of such a restoration is the true measure of their religious hypocrisy.
1
Perhaps Trump was dispatched by the imaginary Christian deity being to make the Exceptional People exceptional again. I believe that in DJT we have the long awaited Second Coming. Considering the promises of Armageddon associated with the second coming, it makes perfect sense that Trump is Lord!
8
Or the anti-Christ.
1
I wonder if Evangelicals have such a fraught relationship with the message of Jesus, as opposed to an idea of Jesus, is because of the uncomfortable truth that he was Jewish.
26
...and the even more uncomfortable truths of Jesus's 12 Disciples and a retired prostitute living in a communal style, not to mention Jesus's Sole Commandment: love one another.
How do you reconcile this with an exclusionary view of people of other nations, religions, and races?
How do you reconcile this with an exclusionary view of people of other nations, religions, and races?
8
All due respect, it is an ancient Catholic urban myth that Mary Magdalene was ever a prostitute. There is no canonical support for this description, which was the brainchild of Gregory the Great.
3
The idea of Trump as a champion of Christianity is something out of The Twilight Zone. I have known real Christians; and I have known a lot of tribal Christians. The former are rare, the latter are all too common. Mr. Jeffress wants the “the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what” as POTUS. (He can’t even name a female dog!) In reality, he’s asking for a hypocrite, an empty vessel, a whited sepulcher.
It seems that such Evangelicals cling to the 17th C notion that they have a right to impose their religion on others and that they ought to be allowed to do so by law. The Catholic Church in Ireland has much the same notion, and for that reason is losing ground quickly. Soon, another son of Erin is likely to start his autumn campaign against those who fight the War on Christmas. He might take comfort in knowing that in that regard, too, he is opposed to Oliver Cromwell. When that great Englishman replaced a king, the waged his own war on Christmas cheer. One of his orders was that soldiers should enter the homes of London on Christmas Day. If they found any meats roasting in ovens, they were to confiscate them.
Law can make people hungry, but it cannot make them moral. In choosing Trump, Evangelicals have declared the weakness of their message.
It seems that such Evangelicals cling to the 17th C notion that they have a right to impose their religion on others and that they ought to be allowed to do so by law. The Catholic Church in Ireland has much the same notion, and for that reason is losing ground quickly. Soon, another son of Erin is likely to start his autumn campaign against those who fight the War on Christmas. He might take comfort in knowing that in that regard, too, he is opposed to Oliver Cromwell. When that great Englishman replaced a king, the waged his own war on Christmas cheer. One of his orders was that soldiers should enter the homes of London on Christmas Day. If they found any meats roasting in ovens, they were to confiscate them.
Law can make people hungry, but it cannot make them moral. In choosing Trump, Evangelicals have declared the weakness of their message.
67
They want to bring back the Inquisition.
3
Can Rev. Jeffress please quote me chapter and verse on that "meanest, toughest, son of a you know what..." quote. I don't remember Jesus saying that.
50
Money is Trump's god; and Dobson's; and Jeffress'; and Graham's.
At least they genuflect to the same trough.
At least they genuflect to the same trough.
104
And every one of them missed the passage saying that "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of god."
6
Sadly, Evangelicals are selling out Christian principles for the cultural power and sway they think they deserve. Mr. Trump formerly (purportedly) a Presbyterian of my denomination, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), was sent a letter of censure by the leadership of our denomination last year. As the Pope indirectly noted, many of his statements are actually not compatible with Christian beliefs. In their fears over social issues and desire to return to the 1950s, Evangelicals are willing to overlook bigotry, misogyny, and bullying. That is tragically misguided.
239
Anne-Marie, I've long admired your Christian good sense, so I'm sad to see you, of all people, lumping all evangelicals together. Do you really believe they're all alike?
So you are saying that these " Christians" really have no interest in behaving like a Christian?
81
"Anger. anxiety and insecurity" ? Hooey. How are these people under threat?
Discomfort, possibly, at a changing world. But where in the message of Jesus Christ are we told we have to be comfortable?
Moral indignation, possibly - it's always a fun place to be when you can pronounce judgment on others. Of course the message of Jesus Christ had something to say about that, too.
We keep hearing about fear and anger, from people whose lives are secure, who wail about how bad off the country is under Obama, but seem to have plenty of money to spend on guns and on ammunition to waste, and who are perfectly free to live as they choose. But gosh, that's not enough, if you have to look around and see others whom you look down on, enjoying the same security, prosperity or freedom you do.
Which tells you everything you need to know about their "fear" and about Trump's appeal to them.
Discomfort, possibly, at a changing world. But where in the message of Jesus Christ are we told we have to be comfortable?
Moral indignation, possibly - it's always a fun place to be when you can pronounce judgment on others. Of course the message of Jesus Christ had something to say about that, too.
We keep hearing about fear and anger, from people whose lives are secure, who wail about how bad off the country is under Obama, but seem to have plenty of money to spend on guns and on ammunition to waste, and who are perfectly free to live as they choose. But gosh, that's not enough, if you have to look around and see others whom you look down on, enjoying the same security, prosperity or freedom you do.
Which tells you everything you need to know about their "fear" and about Trump's appeal to them.
84
Good day:
I am white and I am a Christian. It's time for the baton to be passed. Railing against the inevitable is the height of stupidity. It makes me sad when I survey the wreckage we white Christians have made of this country. Like the dinosaurs, it's time for us to move out of the way.
The man—whose name I prefer not to waste any of the NY Times's printing ink on—and is the subject of this piece, is no baby Christian. I haven't heard one Christ-like thought or utterance from him since this campaign began.
I like to tell folks that I am not an American; I've just lived here the 62 years since I was born in New Haven, Connecticut.
Allen
I am white and I am a Christian. It's time for the baton to be passed. Railing against the inevitable is the height of stupidity. It makes me sad when I survey the wreckage we white Christians have made of this country. Like the dinosaurs, it's time for us to move out of the way.
The man—whose name I prefer not to waste any of the NY Times's printing ink on—and is the subject of this piece, is no baby Christian. I haven't heard one Christ-like thought or utterance from him since this campaign began.
I like to tell folks that I am not an American; I've just lived here the 62 years since I was born in New Haven, Connecticut.
Allen
69
During my acting career, when I played a villain, I always conjured a positive motivation for nefarious actions.
I imagine that most of these people are unaware that they are the villains heaving mightily to return America to that of The Crucible, when the elect sat in judgment of all the rest.
Having embraced a view of the cosmos that would be considered insane were it not shared by so many others in the menagerie, they deny the only constant in the universe--change.
As we evolve from those who saw nothing wrong with all-white Christian academies springing up like dandelions in the 1950s to those who are appalled when white cops mistreat and kill African-Americans with impunity, many who would retard the world's progress lash out from their enclaves, Gerrymandering election districts and inflaming ignorant opinion by relying on fear and loathing of the Other.
For generations their words have been given extra heft because they claim a special relationship with a Creator. Recently, though, their deeds have illuminated their words, which are anything but blessed. However, they clearly believe that they should still be in charge of American policy, foreign and domestic. In Texas, teeth are gnashing because the holier than thou cannot flout American law and essentially close women's heath clinics. Throughout the nation, hot tears are shed because our country has tried to steer a middle course between white Israel and brown Palestine.
They want their country back, poor dears.
I imagine that most of these people are unaware that they are the villains heaving mightily to return America to that of The Crucible, when the elect sat in judgment of all the rest.
Having embraced a view of the cosmos that would be considered insane were it not shared by so many others in the menagerie, they deny the only constant in the universe--change.
As we evolve from those who saw nothing wrong with all-white Christian academies springing up like dandelions in the 1950s to those who are appalled when white cops mistreat and kill African-Americans with impunity, many who would retard the world's progress lash out from their enclaves, Gerrymandering election districts and inflaming ignorant opinion by relying on fear and loathing of the Other.
For generations their words have been given extra heft because they claim a special relationship with a Creator. Recently, though, their deeds have illuminated their words, which are anything but blessed. However, they clearly believe that they should still be in charge of American policy, foreign and domestic. In Texas, teeth are gnashing because the holier than thou cannot flout American law and essentially close women's heath clinics. Throughout the nation, hot tears are shed because our country has tried to steer a middle course between white Israel and brown Palestine.
They want their country back, poor dears.
41
I'm not evangelical, but I do understand Orthodoxy. It carries a set of values not found elsewhere. And they're not all bad. Future generations will be sorry for the culture we lost.
2
Pastor Jeffress wants " the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find in that role..." WOW, what happened to the notion that we serve the Lord by doing good and avoiding evil. I cannot speak for other faith traditions but as a Christian it amazes me that any person of faith could support Trump who is clearly a vulgar, fraudulent and deceitful person.
I suspect that they love their tax breaks more than the Lord.
I suspect that they love their tax breaks more than the Lord.
87
I'm not holding my breath that white evangelicals will somehow come to accept their "decentered place in a new America".
In fact, from everything I've read about their embrace of Trump, it seems they are so hell-bent on regaining social and cultural power that they have thrown their "Christian values" out the window when dealing with this decidedly secular candidate.
Trump is exploiting Christian insecurity in the most cynical way. He's promising the impossible, demographically, culturally, and even spiritually.
A major shift has coincided with the loss of white Christian stature and power enjoyed in America of the 50s. And this has to do with our fundamental--or lack thereof-- understanding of the First Amendment.
White Christians never had to worry about this--after all, as the political majority in their communities, they had the power to assume certain privileges of culture and ethnicity. But as America changed, evangelicals panicked, egged on by networks like FOX News, that spurred them to pursue the politics of grievance all the way to the Supreme Court.
A cynical Trump promises to restore an America of Merry Christmas, and state laws that limit federal protections of minorities, LBGT citizens, and citizens of foreign backgrounds.
It aint happening, Messrs. Huckabee and Jeffress: please pull out your Constitution and focus on the "freedom of, and freedom from, the establishment of any religion."
In fact, from everything I've read about their embrace of Trump, it seems they are so hell-bent on regaining social and cultural power that they have thrown their "Christian values" out the window when dealing with this decidedly secular candidate.
Trump is exploiting Christian insecurity in the most cynical way. He's promising the impossible, demographically, culturally, and even spiritually.
A major shift has coincided with the loss of white Christian stature and power enjoyed in America of the 50s. And this has to do with our fundamental--or lack thereof-- understanding of the First Amendment.
White Christians never had to worry about this--after all, as the political majority in their communities, they had the power to assume certain privileges of culture and ethnicity. But as America changed, evangelicals panicked, egged on by networks like FOX News, that spurred them to pursue the politics of grievance all the way to the Supreme Court.
A cynical Trump promises to restore an America of Merry Christmas, and state laws that limit federal protections of minorities, LBGT citizens, and citizens of foreign backgrounds.
It aint happening, Messrs. Huckabee and Jeffress: please pull out your Constitution and focus on the "freedom of, and freedom from, the establishment of any religion."
65
Better ask why MANY blocs of related voters have become supporters of Donald Trump – look for the shared perceptions and interests. Focusing only on white evangelicals is a good way of focusing attention on these people when your objective is to criticize them, but it doesn’t really get at the reasons for the totality of Trump’s viability.
The truth as to evangelical support of Trump is, as even this author admits, Republicans are their default choice because Democrats offer them absolutely nothing. Except possibly contempt. While I don’t support exclusive worldviews below the national level and I am not religious myself, it’s clear that someone who promises them enough space to live as they please so long as they don’t unduly coerce others to live by their rules would be as attractive to evangelicals as it might be to the LGBT communities. That’s not actually what liberals promise people: they promise that so long as you embrace THEIR overarching “truths”, they’ll have your back. Evangelicals as a general matter don’t embrace progressive “truths”, so they conclude, rightfully, that the left will never have their back. Not surprisingly, they look instead to the right, although that doesn’t benefit just Trump.
And Robert Jeffress provides proof of the pudding: evangelicals perceive such an intense existential threat from Democrats that anyone who on social issues is more likely than not to protect a “live-and-let-live” standard is a life-preserver in a choppy sea.
The truth as to evangelical support of Trump is, as even this author admits, Republicans are their default choice because Democrats offer them absolutely nothing. Except possibly contempt. While I don’t support exclusive worldviews below the national level and I am not religious myself, it’s clear that someone who promises them enough space to live as they please so long as they don’t unduly coerce others to live by their rules would be as attractive to evangelicals as it might be to the LGBT communities. That’s not actually what liberals promise people: they promise that so long as you embrace THEIR overarching “truths”, they’ll have your back. Evangelicals as a general matter don’t embrace progressive “truths”, so they conclude, rightfully, that the left will never have their back. Not surprisingly, they look instead to the right, although that doesn’t benefit just Trump.
And Robert Jeffress provides proof of the pudding: evangelicals perceive such an intense existential threat from Democrats that anyone who on social issues is more likely than not to protect a “live-and-let-live” standard is a life-preserver in a choppy sea.
4
Richard,
Please explain your definition of "truth" in the contexts you assert. These sorts of monolithic assertions make me cringe. People shake their head in agreement but if you start asking questions one gets dozens of not-so-nuanced definitions or perceptions. I would posit that this has little to do with any sort of truth, but rather political group mentality with a religious face. You see the same things with extreme examples of the gun support crowd. And with certain groups on the far left. In these cases any "truth" ends up as the enemy of moderation or the ability to compromise. It is not so hard to find any sort of orthodoxy/fundamentalism that perceives "existential threats" around them.
There are reasons for my suspicions of "truth": http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth/ . But these considerations will not fit on a bumper sticker or on Twitter. Makes it hard to think carefully in an intense political year.
Please explain your definition of "truth" in the contexts you assert. These sorts of monolithic assertions make me cringe. People shake their head in agreement but if you start asking questions one gets dozens of not-so-nuanced definitions or perceptions. I would posit that this has little to do with any sort of truth, but rather political group mentality with a religious face. You see the same things with extreme examples of the gun support crowd. And with certain groups on the far left. In these cases any "truth" ends up as the enemy of moderation or the ability to compromise. It is not so hard to find any sort of orthodoxy/fundamentalism that perceives "existential threats" around them.
There are reasons for my suspicions of "truth": http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth/ . But these considerations will not fit on a bumper sticker or on Twitter. Makes it hard to think carefully in an intense political year.
18
"That’s not actually what liberals promise people: they promise that so long as you embrace THEIR overarching 'truths', they’ll have your back."
That statement is false.
That statement is false.
37
Which blocs are those? Republicans are losing ground in states with large non-white populations, and Trump has proven to be unusually adept at alienating key groups needed to win a national election. Look at the electoral map and the possible routes to a Trump victory. He's not going to get there by playing to his strength among white male voters. Even his newly minted "religious conversion" won't help him. (Imagine how relieved he'll be on November 9th. He'll no longer have to maintain the presence of being a baby Christian, which must be a tremendous strain on his psyche.)
28
Old Karl got one thing right, religion is the opiate of the people.
Evangelicalism is primarily a business for preachers. It is also brazen politics and pursuit of power.
It all boils down to "Make America White again" and "vote for me, I hate the same people you do".
It doesn't seem to have much to do with the real message of Jesus. The last shall be first, turn the other cheek, heal the sick, clothe the naked, feed the hungry, etc. Not to mention the part about the rich man entering heaven being more difficult that a camel gong through the eye of a needle.
Evangelicalism is primarily a business for preachers. It is also brazen politics and pursuit of power.
It all boils down to "Make America White again" and "vote for me, I hate the same people you do".
It doesn't seem to have much to do with the real message of Jesus. The last shall be first, turn the other cheek, heal the sick, clothe the naked, feed the hungry, etc. Not to mention the part about the rich man entering heaven being more difficult that a camel gong through the eye of a needle.
134
Trump is not the problem. We are the problem. Our immaturity as a society and our willingness to blame anybody or anything at the drop of a hat. "We the People" need to re-examine OUR values. Trump has only gotten as far as he has because tons of people seem to like him, or what he stands for. What's up with that? I'm voting for Hillary, who I think is going to make a terrific president.
56
Is our society immature? We are well into our third century of political independence, coming after a century and a half of colonial tutelage to Britain, which itself I believe qualified as "mature." How long does it take? Racism, tribalism, degenerate religion, and the search for scapegoats in the face of wrenching change are not symptoms of immaturity. They are permanent features of human political society. They can be held back only by strong and legitimate political institutions, which unfortunately we seem no longer to have.
Evangelical Protestants....putting 'faith' in the hands of a godless man who primarily values MONEY over all else....and a man who commented on how "hot" his own daughter was....rather than support a Woman who has taught Methodist Sunday school like her mother, is a member of a Senate prayer group, and regularly attends the Foundry United Methodist Church in Washington.
By your company you shall be known....
By your company you shall be known....
79
EVANGELICALS Need to listen very carefully to what Jimmy Carter, committed Baptist, has to say. His father and grandfather were Baptists who just wanted to practice their religion privately. Jimmy also says that the erosion of the separation between church and state, along with other changes, have led us in the direction of losing our core values. Myself, I have little use for the mixing of church and state, as that is precisely the reason that people fled Europe to go to the colonies and then to the the US. Being Jewish, my great grandparents and grandparents fled Europe to escape religious persecution. Now as a nation we face religious persecution under the Orwellian name of restoring religious freedom!! I reject those who claim the Orwellian right to discriminate against and persecute others as manifestations of their religious scruples! On the one hand they say they wish to get government out of their lives, while expressing entitlement to intrude into the lives of those who practice other spiritual beliefs. Persecuting against women who need the date rape pill to prevent pregnancy using the excuse that it goes against their personal scruples I find to be both hypocritical and repugnant. Frankly, I'm glad that the Evangelical extremist stranglehold on the government is failing. The destruction that their moral scolds have wrought in Congress, where, especially in the House, with disdain for fulfilling the oath of office to legislate and govern, is traitorous!.
505
John
I loved your comment. My church experience was so dismaying. Hypocrites and disrespect to religion actually, but like so many others these days, "in the name of Christ", ugh. They make up their own rules as they go along and then seem to find a Bibilcal verse to back them up. Kind of like Donald Trump's "2 Corinthians" or however he labeled it which was quite indicative he didn't have a clue what he was talking about....and the Bible is his favorite book he claims? The Trump manipulation continues. One thing sure, he is skilled, right in the manipulation area. And the Evangelicals are falling right for it. Like my comment today says, weak sheep.
I loved your comment. My church experience was so dismaying. Hypocrites and disrespect to religion actually, but like so many others these days, "in the name of Christ", ugh. They make up their own rules as they go along and then seem to find a Bibilcal verse to back them up. Kind of like Donald Trump's "2 Corinthians" or however he labeled it which was quite indicative he didn't have a clue what he was talking about....and the Bible is his favorite book he claims? The Trump manipulation continues. One thing sure, he is skilled, right in the manipulation area. And the Evangelicals are falling right for it. Like my comment today says, weak sheep.
2
John Smith- I am shocked your comment did not get selected as great!
thanks!
thanks!
“I want the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find in that role, and I think that’s where many evangelicals are.” Completely inconsistent with the Beatitudes. Where's the Christianity in that statement?
51
So evangelicals believe that Trump is more likely to advance their political objectives. I agree - but these objectives would not be advanced by Christ. Their support for Trump gives testament to their Christianity and in doing so, it shows how far they have fallen.
38
Ah yes, the evangelicals are once more seduced by a public figure who will, upon victory, discard them like a dirty piece of paper. And regarding your last statement about evangelicals having a critical role to play in our civic life - the only role they ever played was to poison our civilization. This is why they are dying on the vine as I type this note.
35
It's all about being politically correct. Mr. Jones speaks of white Christians. That is just too politically correct. There are WHITE Christians and there are white CHRISTIANS. Donald Trump and the Republicans are hoping that there are many more WHITE Christian voters than white CHRISTIAN voters.
39
Many of these comments express what I want to say...people, wake up and realize that Trump is a classic con man...smooth and charming while telling you what you want to hear while smirking at your naivete. Just look at his personal and business life...he's free, of course, to behave as he wants, but it strikes me that he's taking the evangelicals for a ride.
19
I think you're wrong: a classic con man would appear to most people to be, at least on the surface, a credible and trustworthy human being, rather than a refugee from Toontown. A con man deceives everyone; Trump is only fooling people who desperately, pathetically, WANT to be fooled.
26
one thing Trump is not, is charming. who hasn't he excoriated?
5
But William, not everyone is fooled by three-card-monte, or an advance-fee scam. You don't have to fool everyone - or even most people - to be a con man.
1
meanest ,toughest, son of a female dog to represent the evangelicals, JESUS may not agree
23
For some reason I thank more and more of Trump as being the Anti-Christ.
24
That role has emerged as Dick Cheney years ago.
5
This piece is very similar to the NYT opinion piece, also today, by Beppe Severegnino that pins the Brexit vote on the nostalgia factor of 'Little Englanders.' But, going a step further, one can also see that Trump is a snake-oil salesman, just like so many preachers (some would say all preachers). So, there's a lot of empathy and self-identification between them.
14
I'm familiar with the beatitudes. Trump is the beatitudes incarnate :-)
I can't recall having actually met a christian. There were none in the parochial I went to for 8 years. There are none on TV. And please, don't mention Mother Theresa (see Hitchens' "Missionary Position").
I can't recall having actually met a christian. There were none in the parochial I went to for 8 years. There are none on TV. And please, don't mention Mother Theresa (see Hitchens' "Missionary Position").
10
Evangelical xianity = male white power + control + hucksterism. It needs to be made small enough to drown in a bathtub. It's predatory, disgraceful and it's values are nothing resembling the social justice teachings of it's supposed god.
24
These deeply flawed Evangelical leaders need Trump because he can provide them with what these so called servants of the Lord so desperately seek; worldly powers. Trump is the vehicle they want to ride to give them a higher prominence among their flock. Trump always with the salesman's eye for the deal will play them like a fiddle.
Trump in his value system and character is in so many ways the anthesis of a true bible based Christian that his rise to power with the Evangelicals is a mockery of the entire Christian religion. But these Evangelical hucksters will attempt to fit the glass slipper on their followers. And Trump will look like the cat that ate the canary.
Trump in his value system and character is in so many ways the anthesis of a true bible based Christian that his rise to power with the Evangelicals is a mockery of the entire Christian religion. But these Evangelical hucksters will attempt to fit the glass slipper on their followers. And Trump will look like the cat that ate the canary.
30
great sentence;
"And Trump will look like the cat that ate the canary."
that is what he looks like when he gives that sick self satisfied smile.
"And Trump will look like the cat that ate the canary."
that is what he looks like when he gives that sick self satisfied smile.
1
Having an extended family and a close family member belonging to the fundamentalist/evangelical form of religion, I can tell you that to the very last one of them, they support That Man. Several of them are holding their noses as they do so, but their hatred of the Clintons is so deeply embedded in them that, to quote one of them "I would prefer losing the chance of heaven to seeing her in the White House".
When a group of people claim to be what they are not -- true followers of the prophet, Jesus --- and justify following a man who by his very own words and deeds is so far removed from what that prophet represents, there is no room for integrity, moral values, or just common decency.
When a group of people claim to be what they are not -- true followers of the prophet, Jesus --- and justify following a man who by his very own words and deeds is so far removed from what that prophet represents, there is no room for integrity, moral values, or just common decency.
343
"I would prefer losing the chance of heaven to seeing her in the White House".
They're not really christian.
They're not really christian.
2
My parents are both evangelicals who will NEVER vote for Trump.
They're both going to vote for Hilary, and would have voted for Bernie Sanders if he'd been nominated.
They're both going to vote for Hilary, and would have voted for Bernie Sanders if he'd been nominated.
1
Trump will use and discard these pastors just like the pastors are using (and discarding) their constituency. I cannot see any Christian values coming from Trump - married several times, had numerous affairs, not particularly generous to the poor or indigent, denigrates others when it suits him. The list goes on and on. To make him out as a "baby Christian" is selling snake oil; let's hope this snake oil is not completely toxic.
50
You forgot one of his most un-Christian traits. He is a pathological liar. I can't imagine that Jesus Christ would approve of any of this man's "values."
34
And being a pathological liar, Trump repeatedly breaks the commandment not to bear false witness (and then says he has nothing to repent of).
1
All our presidents but two have been WASPs and that won't change this year. Evangelicals, still, are declining in power. And that is a reason for their anger. But another is the intolerance of the anti-religious. I have lived in the Bible belt and have visited abortion clinics. I have had more contact with evangelicals than most. I'll play softball with them but it seems silly to debate them. After all, they are going out of style.
7
Pandering to Evangelicals is easy. Just take the unconstitutional things that evangelicals want (prayer in schools, bans on abortion, bans on homosexuality, and a favored status as America's spiritual leaders) and promise those things to them. That's all Trump is doing, and the evangelicals are gullible enough to throw in with a chronic liar, philanderer, swindler, probable tax cheat and accused child rapist. Decades of leadership by the likes of James Dobson and Mike Huckabee has doubtless softened their brains.
352
When humanity casts off the chains of religion only then will be truly free. I guess you won't hear this during this election cycle.
57
If you want to get a better picture of what you might mean, read the article entitled "A Saudi Morals Enforcer Called for a More Liberal Islam. Then the Death Threats Began" elsewhere in today's NYT. At least we are not quite that bad.
7
cold comfort, that.
2
Dobson, et al, cares about power, political power and social power, NOT the teachings of Jesus. Trump too, but at least he has not been pretending otherwise, till now.
It will be a glorious day when all these 'whitened sepulchres' are found out by the minions who contribute their meager sums. These contributions are the only other thing the charlatans care about.
It will be a glorious day when all these 'whitened sepulchres' are found out by the minions who contribute their meager sums. These contributions are the only other thing the charlatans care about.
21
Hmm. Will fundamentalist Protestant white Christians be able to turn back the clock, rev up their time machines, and return us to the 1950s?
Let's recall what happened in the 1960s and 70s. Women gained access to reliable contraception and legal abortion. African-American men and women demanded their civil rights. Gays fought at Stonewall and walked proudly out of the closet, into the light of day.
Many of my friends were devout little girls, members of established (patriarchal) churches, in the 1950s. Then they grew old enough to read newspapers.
The fact that 2/3 of fundamentalist Christians are troubled by immigrants who speak poor English makes me laugh. Obviously they're not modeling themselves on Christ of the Gospels, who told a parable about a Good Samaritan, invited an outcast down from a tree, and embraced lepers. Looks like they've accepted Pontius Pilate as their hero. Great!
Any religious group that would support belligerent, intolerant, misogynistic, xenophobic, hateful, empty, dishonest, infantile Donald Trump as its new standard bearer is a group of lost souls. My opinion.
Let's recall what happened in the 1960s and 70s. Women gained access to reliable contraception and legal abortion. African-American men and women demanded their civil rights. Gays fought at Stonewall and walked proudly out of the closet, into the light of day.
Many of my friends were devout little girls, members of established (patriarchal) churches, in the 1950s. Then they grew old enough to read newspapers.
The fact that 2/3 of fundamentalist Christians are troubled by immigrants who speak poor English makes me laugh. Obviously they're not modeling themselves on Christ of the Gospels, who told a parable about a Good Samaritan, invited an outcast down from a tree, and embraced lepers. Looks like they've accepted Pontius Pilate as their hero. Great!
Any religious group that would support belligerent, intolerant, misogynistic, xenophobic, hateful, empty, dishonest, infantile Donald Trump as its new standard bearer is a group of lost souls. My opinion.
927
My sentiments exactly!
12
Well said!
2
“I want the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find in that role, and I think that’s where many evangelicals are.” Very Christian attitude indeed!
102
He omitted one adjective, but it's tacitly understood: "white."
36
Orange is the new white?
43
Brian, fantastic!
5
I have no idea how a President influences any reversal of abject demographics ... In terms of morality we've had moral, family-centered Presidents for the last 16 years when this change has been occurring ...
6
That's why the red states have been working so hard to disenfanchise voters, by any means necessary will they cling to power.
3
White Christian evangelicals have already demonstrated a willingness to believe in something for which there is no evidence. That makes them a perfect match for Trump. End of story.
157
I am not Christian but I have no problem saying "Merry Christmas." These so-called "white Christians" are greatly mistaken. They are no better than the religious police in Saudi Arabia. And even some over there have an awakening
cf. A Saudi Morals Enforcer Called for a More Liberal Islam. Then the Death Threats Began. http://nyti.ms/29rFen4
Trump is behaving everything Jesus had preached against. The latter had his self-doubt but finally accepted his own sacrifice for all while the former never expressed any doubt of his egotism and selfishness.
Time will tell if the parable of the pigs would actually happen
cf. A Saudi Morals Enforcer Called for a More Liberal Islam. Then the Death Threats Began. http://nyti.ms/29rFen4
Trump is behaving everything Jesus had preached against. The latter had his self-doubt but finally accepted his own sacrifice for all while the former never expressed any doubt of his egotism and selfishness.
Time will tell if the parable of the pigs would actually happen
27
They long for the day when they can hector the rest of us ad nauseum. I suppose their diminishing ability to do so is what constitutes persecution...
86
None of this is surprising in that a group of people who subscribe to an utterly fantastic view of existence are falling in line behind a carnival barker. 'Murica....'
29
So a majority of Evangelicals believe that life was better in the 1950's when segregation was legal, African-Americans in the South were not allowed to vote, women were not allowed to apply for a mortgage, credit card or bank account with out their husband's approval, and gays were routinely arrested, demonized and harassed.
That says it all.
That says it all.
556
If you ever watched "All in the Family" you had to have heard the song at the beginning and the line "girls were girls and men were men, mister we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again." Then it goes on about "didn't have no welfare state, everybody pulled his weight, those were the days".
Those were the days when being different was to be shamed and ashamed, to be completely excluded unless you conformed. If Trump thinks he can bring those days back and the Evangelicals believe that they truly are living in an alternate reality. What they seem to prefer is being ignorant, feeling superior to every one who doesn't believe or live the way they do, and threatening all of us with Armageddon. The scary part is that some of them try to create Armageddon. They have a lot in common with other extremists. To add insult to the whole thing, there is the article about Saudi Arabia's extreme views and society in today's paper. Perhaps they should read that, or perhaps not. They do seem to favor various aspects of Sharia law whether they call it that or not. But hey, those were the days!
Those were the days when being different was to be shamed and ashamed, to be completely excluded unless you conformed. If Trump thinks he can bring those days back and the Evangelicals believe that they truly are living in an alternate reality. What they seem to prefer is being ignorant, feeling superior to every one who doesn't believe or live the way they do, and threatening all of us with Armageddon. The scary part is that some of them try to create Armageddon. They have a lot in common with other extremists. To add insult to the whole thing, there is the article about Saudi Arabia's extreme views and society in today's paper. Perhaps they should read that, or perhaps not. They do seem to favor various aspects of Sharia law whether they call it that or not. But hey, those were the days!
2
And birth control. Praise the Lord for birth control.
2
These so called Christians have zero understanding of the Judeo-Christian ethic they claim to represent.
What they are fighting for has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with greed. They want to reinstate White privilege, the privilege to
dominate a society by virtue of their relative lack of pigmentation.
Read the Bible (both Old and New Testaments) carefully (I personally prefer the original Hebrew, but I realize not everybody is fluent in it), and it become very obvious that privilege is nobody's right.
Privilege is something to be earned, not taken for granted. Even the Kings of Judea and Israel, as the Books of Samuel and Kings so clearly state, had neither the right nor the privilege to be above the law.
True Christians should get this simple truth. White privilege and Christianity are incompatible values. A sincere Christian should realize that Christianity (and for that matter Judaism and Islam) is, as Martin Luther King so movingly said, all about "judging and being judged by the content of one's character, not the color of one's skins". This is what the Judeo-Christian ethic is ultimately all about, the rest is commentary.
What they are fighting for has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with greed. They want to reinstate White privilege, the privilege to
dominate a society by virtue of their relative lack of pigmentation.
Read the Bible (both Old and New Testaments) carefully (I personally prefer the original Hebrew, but I realize not everybody is fluent in it), and it become very obvious that privilege is nobody's right.
Privilege is something to be earned, not taken for granted. Even the Kings of Judea and Israel, as the Books of Samuel and Kings so clearly state, had neither the right nor the privilege to be above the law.
True Christians should get this simple truth. White privilege and Christianity are incompatible values. A sincere Christian should realize that Christianity (and for that matter Judaism and Islam) is, as Martin Luther King so movingly said, all about "judging and being judged by the content of one's character, not the color of one's skins". This is what the Judeo-Christian ethic is ultimately all about, the rest is commentary.
91
Trump embodies at least two of the seven deadly sines - greed and pride and probably a few more if we look closely. But I guess if you have less than 75% of the seven deadly sins hanging around your neck you're eligible for the endorsement of the evangelical mullahs.
12
Have you ever encountered the phrase "chosen people" when reading the OT? Perhaps you should reconsider your premise. The scriptures of all the monotheistic religions explicitly endorse privilege without question.
1
Calling his daughter hot, and saying that he would date her, if she wasn't his daughter, checks the "lust" box in the ickiest way possible.
6
Obviously the way white Evangelicals square the circle of their support of an, equally obvious, heathen like Donald Trump is with the strong astringents hypocrisy and denial. If the reasoning you use for their support of the Donald is correct then they are fooling themselves in a way that I thought was exclusive to their Religious dogma. Loosing power in a secular society should be the last thing these spiritualists should be concerned with. John Paul Stevens' religious affiliation should not even a qualification for a Supreme Court justice. If the Evangelicals think that Mr. Trump will get them closer to power and this nation closer to the teachings of Christ, then Heaven help us all.
31
Until the power of love overcomes the love of power, America will never be great again.
44
Trump has built his popularity on being outrageous. He lies, blathers and promises the same empty rhetoric showing a profound ignorance of the issues facing our government at home and abroad, all the time preaching a message to the dissatisfied and disassociated aging white Protestant population that he's a new messiah. The media has blown this image onto a huge screen, constantly in the public view and man, does this New York slumlord know how to work a crowd into a frenzy.
Will the ultra-Christian protestants fall in line behind a guy who makes Bill Clinton's past sexual behavior look like that of a Trappist monk? Sure! Why not? Self-confessed Christian leaders like the Graham kids, Dobson and Robertson do see him as the Great White Hope, and like their threatened, disassociated secular counterparts, will create similar myths, such as his professed beliefs in supporting him.
Will the ultra-Christian protestants fall in line behind a guy who makes Bill Clinton's past sexual behavior look like that of a Trappist monk? Sure! Why not? Self-confessed Christian leaders like the Graham kids, Dobson and Robertson do see him as the Great White Hope, and like their threatened, disassociated secular counterparts, will create similar myths, such as his professed beliefs in supporting him.
37
The GOP blew it. They should have nominated Jerry Springer.
4
listen to the nixon tapes -- or see harry shearer's reenactments of them. you'll learn all about the sin-filled billy graham. like father like son, perhaps?
1
"Family values"? Really?
The evangelical leaders are endorsing a man who cheated on his wife and ridiculed her in public. This is the man whose own son didn't speak with him for one year.
This is why I despise ALL organized religions!
The evangelical leaders are endorsing a man who cheated on his wife and ridiculed her in public. This is the man whose own son didn't speak with him for one year.
This is why I despise ALL organized religions!
62
As another OP-ED piece about evangelical support for Trump by Mr. Wehner stated, Trump's message and tone is the antithesis of the Christian Gospels. Evangelicals may be losing hegemony in the USA but worse, they have lost their souls.
216
Christians should always be seen rather than heard. And their bonafides should be extolled by those to whom they have been Christian, not from their own declared values.
In fact, this entire nation would do itself a favor by putting personal responsibility, for self-regulation and for the treatment of others, back in the focus. Instead, both Right and Left spend an inordinate amount of time lecturing each other, creating rancor and no change.
When Christians live as Christ commanded, there will be no need for the empty promises emanating from any other corners.
In fact, this entire nation would do itself a favor by putting personal responsibility, for self-regulation and for the treatment of others, back in the focus. Instead, both Right and Left spend an inordinate amount of time lecturing each other, creating rancor and no change.
When Christians live as Christ commanded, there will be no need for the empty promises emanating from any other corners.
25
Everything said about Jesus is hearsay. He is just another skin people dress in to bolster their own authority.
19
@Steve
I will try to remember that when I think about Bonhoeffer, MLKJr., and Mother Theresa. Or World Vision. Or Catholic Charities.
I will try to remember that when I think about Bonhoeffer, MLKJr., and Mother Theresa. Or World Vision. Or Catholic Charities.
6
People who believe that nature has a human personality are some of the worst judges of human character breathing.
18
@Steve
I am anxious for Nature to displace faith a a stirrer of human hearts.
As the leading alternative since the dawn of time, it has been an abject failure at claiming its rightful position as the mediator of Truth.
Perhaps this is the generation and you are its exponent.
I am anxious for Nature to displace faith a a stirrer of human hearts.
As the leading alternative since the dawn of time, it has been an abject failure at claiming its rightful position as the mediator of Truth.
Perhaps this is the generation and you are its exponent.
1
"People who believe that nature has a human personality are some of the worst judges of human character breathing."
You're not talking about Christians. Christians traditionally believe that God created nature.
You're not talking about Christians. Christians traditionally believe that God created nature.
2
What's next? Dobson stating that "Hustler" is a acceptable substitute for the Bible?
41
That depends on how much money Hustler is offering.
7
If there was a God Trump would not be worth millions.
20
I always believed that when God is through with you and wants to do you in he makes you Rich.
5
@DC
If you had a deeper grasp of what faithful believe, you would probably not have written that; but many are misunderstood by the example of their worst examples.
If you had a deeper grasp of what faithful believe, you would probably not have written that; but many are misunderstood by the example of their worst examples.
2
The author presents the ridiculous and unsubstantiated claim that Trump is "the great white hope" for Christian Americans, as if only whites are evangelical, only whites support Trump, the only reason anyone could support Trump is because he is white, the only reason a white person wouldn't support Obama is because he is black, and so on. The truth is, blacks voted for Obama because he is black, but large numbers of whites also voted for Obama (for reasons that have nothing to do with skin color) -- that is why he was elected twice. Evangelical Christians see the Democratic Party as standing for abortion and being less supportive of their family values than the Republican Party, and they also see that difference in values reflected in Clinton and Trump. That is the reason some evangelical are rallying around Trump. It has nothing to do with race, even though liberal journalists would like to make that claim, since it casts Trump and his supporters in a bad light.
3
Nothing to do with race? In 2012, just 11% of Republican voters were non-white. Barack Obama lost the white vote to Mitt Romney by 20 points. There's a reason why Donald Trump decided to disavow the Democratic party when he started thinking seriously about running for office. And that reason has a lot to do with race, as does Trump's success in the GOP primaries.
38
The "difference in values" between Clinton and Trump is clear: Clinton has values, Trump does not.
43
Republican supporters are very largely white. Democrats are a rainbow.
And the values reflected in Trump? You're seriously claiming that they are Christian values? Trump worships mammon, you can't possibly deny this. Clinton's husband engaged in sexual escapades that Christian teaching warns against. She didn't, but Trump did. So your claim that evangelicals are supporting Trump over Clinton because he reflect their family values is utterly laughable.
Which makes us wonder what the real reason is...
And the values reflected in Trump? You're seriously claiming that they are Christian values? Trump worships mammon, you can't possibly deny this. Clinton's husband engaged in sexual escapades that Christian teaching warns against. She didn't, but Trump did. So your claim that evangelicals are supporting Trump over Clinton because he reflect their family values is utterly laughable.
Which makes us wonder what the real reason is...
50
White evangelical this, white evangelical that...What the heck! How racist, Mr Jones...You repeated this at least eight times in 13 short fluffy paragraphs. I suppose you were trying to get your point across.
Thank goodness "white evangelicals"live in America and can support the candidate of their choice.
Thank goodness "white evangelicals"live in America and can support the candidate of their choice.
4
"White evangelical this, white evangelical that...What the heck! How racist"
Approximately zero.
Oh wait, you weren't asking a question? Never mind.
Approximately zero.
Oh wait, you weren't asking a question? Never mind.
12
Hmmm, since the article was about white evangelicals, kind of made sense that he referred to them. And no, it isn't racist. I'm guessing, by the way, that you support Drumpf.
8
"Thank goodness "white evangelicals"live in America and can support the candidate of their choice."
Of course you can. It's your shameless attempts to deprive the rest of America of the same rights and privileges you enjoy that are objectionable (and profoundly un-American.)
Of course you can. It's your shameless attempts to deprive the rest of America of the same rights and privileges you enjoy that are objectionable (and profoundly un-American.)
21
Dear Mr. Jones,
"In 2008, white Christians constituted a majority (54 percent) of the country; today that number has slipped to 45 percent".
Thank you for the first GOOD news I've read in over two weeks!
Perhaps we can make it out of the "Dark Ages" though I realize this means a drop in your income, most likely, as the "Public Religion Research Institute" would become somewhat less relevant as reason, science and logic start to make more inroads.
For isn't that what religion is all about? Control, power and influence while all the while filling the minds of the "believers" with promises of a great afterlife and, simultaneously, filling the collection plates with cold, hard cash as it seems the creator is ALWAYS short of money.
I'll be happiest when those poll numbers reach about 10% and you and your types baleful influence on politics becomes a relic to be studied just like the dinosaurs (Another thing you fellows do not believe, evolution).
Does this "revitalizing" of which you write include harassing abortion doctors and their patients, decrying birth control methods and introducing the "Ten Commandments" as the law of the land (Sharia laws indeed!)?
In the interim, keep us informed of this great trend in future columns, if you please.
"In 2008, white Christians constituted a majority (54 percent) of the country; today that number has slipped to 45 percent".
Thank you for the first GOOD news I've read in over two weeks!
Perhaps we can make it out of the "Dark Ages" though I realize this means a drop in your income, most likely, as the "Public Religion Research Institute" would become somewhat less relevant as reason, science and logic start to make more inroads.
For isn't that what religion is all about? Control, power and influence while all the while filling the minds of the "believers" with promises of a great afterlife and, simultaneously, filling the collection plates with cold, hard cash as it seems the creator is ALWAYS short of money.
I'll be happiest when those poll numbers reach about 10% and you and your types baleful influence on politics becomes a relic to be studied just like the dinosaurs (Another thing you fellows do not believe, evolution).
Does this "revitalizing" of which you write include harassing abortion doctors and their patients, decrying birth control methods and introducing the "Ten Commandments" as the law of the land (Sharia laws indeed!)?
In the interim, keep us informed of this great trend in future columns, if you please.
71
Evangelicals feel persecuted? By whom? I guess they long for a time when they were top dogs, when women and blacks knew their place, and criticism of their meddling (trying to make everyone believe as they do) didn't exist. Ain't gonna happen.
373
The larger the space science and reason take up, the smaller the space for the small minded and fundamentalist religions. They are getting squeezed pretty tightly in the vise of reality.
6
Differences of opinion over policy explain some of the opposition to President Obama. It is his unintended role as a symbol of the dissolution of the white hegemony that explains the intense anger directed at him.
25
To refresh my memory, I reviewed the eight Beatitudes in Matthew 5:3–12 during the Sermon on the Mount. Not clear to me how any of them are recognizable in Donald J. Trump. He is close to his adult children, though. Apparently that’s enough for today’s Evangelicals in America.
166
Wouldn't most anyone be "close" to a parent if that made them millionaires? I have read somewhere though that one of the Heinz heirs gave up his privileged lifestyle to work for the betterment of others, probably influenced by his mother who grew up in Mozambique where her father was a doctor working with the poor.
6
Careful, sir, there are sincere evangelicals. Others might dislike your blatant use of real scripture from a strange book not known to them.
4
if there are, in fact, any sincere evangelicals out there, you'd better start speaking up against mr. trump's candidacy. otherwise, you'll be lumped in with the insincere evangelicals.
4
Hypocrite Dobson claims Trump has "accepted a relationship with Christ"?
I can't help but wonder "who's on top?" in that "relationship".
I can't help but wonder "who's on top?" in that "relationship".
47
But has Jesus accepted Donald Trump?
18
Is He on top?
2
This joke is a little homophobic, no?
2
For people who profess a belief in divine creation, deny the fact of evolution, perceive immutable white superiority and desire to turn back the clock, the belief that Trump is the man to do that is no less delusional.
A twice divorced, thrice married swindler of students, contractors and investors is the paladin of their dreams.
A twice divorced, thrice married swindler of students, contractors and investors is the paladin of their dreams.
841
Oh but he IS the man to do the job! They're fine with Trump, who is a complete ignoramus about science and has the insulated rich kid's disdain for history. He would happily preside over a Congress that dismantled the EPA and defunded NOAA, NASA and the USGS. And since his wives and girlfriends and daughters would all still have access to safe, discreet and affordable abortions, he would obligingly appoint Supreme Court Justices to overturn Roe v Wade.
11
In addition to which most white protestants do not relate to hand waving, screeching evangelicals and their denial of modern science and its teachings.
4
This all goes to prove that a sucker is born again every minute
289
Oh, good one! :D
"If, however, white evangelicals somehow summon a response that is rooted in real acceptance of their decentered place in a new America, they may find that they have a critical role to play in the revitalization of our civic life." My only comment about this otherwise preceptive editorial piece is that this last sentence represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the American Evangelical experience. It is central to their self understanding that their central role in American life is God-given. It is their manifest destiny to save America from its wicked ways. Failure in this would not merely call into question their politics, but their theology. I would not expect a retreat - but a radicalization, if their self-anointed Messiah, Donald Trump, loses in November.
264
alas.
3
Trump saw the Christian right as a group that he could convince into supporting him, whose personality and behavior they might otherwise have seen as characteristic of an anti-Christ rather than as one that they would support. Having gained the vocal support of religious right leaders, he sees them as now in the bag. Pulpits across the country will resound with calls to vote for Trump who will restore Christ to the schools and much more.
What Mr. Trump will be doing, however, is broadening the range of accessible voters by offering a softer tone, conciliation, meetings with African American leaders, Muslim community leaders so that his other theme, "crooked Hillary" can play out to a broader audience with increasingly vicious attacks against his opponent.
Trump has no interest to restore Christ to the schools and public square. He does not like to be controlled or obligated to anyone. Certainly he resents the Pope admonishing him that building a mighty wall against Mexico would not be a Christian act. But, if elected he could always point to a recalcitrant Congress and the crooked liberals to justify actually doing nothing.
What would Jesus do if confronted by Trump? Would he encourage believers to vote for Trump? Or would he see Trump as some kind of "Antichrist" who misleads believers with a false message?
What Mr. Trump will be doing, however, is broadening the range of accessible voters by offering a softer tone, conciliation, meetings with African American leaders, Muslim community leaders so that his other theme, "crooked Hillary" can play out to a broader audience with increasingly vicious attacks against his opponent.
Trump has no interest to restore Christ to the schools and public square. He does not like to be controlled or obligated to anyone. Certainly he resents the Pope admonishing him that building a mighty wall against Mexico would not be a Christian act. But, if elected he could always point to a recalcitrant Congress and the crooked liberals to justify actually doing nothing.
What would Jesus do if confronted by Trump? Would he encourage believers to vote for Trump? Or would he see Trump as some kind of "Antichrist" who misleads believers with a false message?
196
My understanding of Jesus is that he would welcome Trump with open arms and ask they if Trump wanted to follow Him, Donald should give all he has to the poor and love his (Mexican) neighbors.
6
Please do not promote Trump to the position of "antiChrist".
He is a failed businessman, and reasonably successful "reality TV" figure who separates the world into two groups: close family and friends who he protects, and everyone else who he exploits by lying, willfully failing to meet his financial obligations, and suing anyone who dares to believe that the law should apply to Trump.
Trump is a "little" man not worthy of being characterized as more than a (possibly) rich, selfish bully--who can act like a charming rogue when it suits him. His goals are purely selfish (beyond the "chosen" of his immediate family).
He is a failed businessman, and reasonably successful "reality TV" figure who separates the world into two groups: close family and friends who he protects, and everyone else who he exploits by lying, willfully failing to meet his financial obligations, and suing anyone who dares to believe that the law should apply to Trump.
Trump is a "little" man not worthy of being characterized as more than a (possibly) rich, selfish bully--who can act like a charming rogue when it suits him. His goals are purely selfish (beyond the "chosen" of his immediate family).
7
Jesus would just weep.
2
The Trump quote near the end of this piece captures the real crisis confronting his supporters among white evangelicals: "because if I'm there, you're going to have plenty of power-- you don't need anybody else." Two false notes in this boast should set off alarm bells in the mind of any thinking Christian.
The promise of power contradicts the central message of Christianity. The gospel proclaims God's unconditional love for humanity, a gift which people must accept voluntarily. The coercion inherent in political power destroys the peaceful nature of this message. The quest for political influence also corrupts the messenger, as the history of state churches amply demonstrates.
Trump's assertion that his followers wouldn't need anyone else, of course, implies that Christians would no longer require divine intervention to achieve their mission. They could presumably dispense with prayer, or, perhaps, just alter the name of their deity. The deafness of the Christian who responded positively to this Trump promise would arise directly from the corruption promoted by the thirst for political power.
Evangelicals drawn to Trump, however, lost their way long before they responded to this pied piper. Their anxiety over the plight of whites exposes a fundamental misunderstanding of the faith they serve. Christians celebrate a deity for whom distinctions of ethnicity or gender have no meaning.
Changes in society represent the least of the problems these people face.
The promise of power contradicts the central message of Christianity. The gospel proclaims God's unconditional love for humanity, a gift which people must accept voluntarily. The coercion inherent in political power destroys the peaceful nature of this message. The quest for political influence also corrupts the messenger, as the history of state churches amply demonstrates.
Trump's assertion that his followers wouldn't need anyone else, of course, implies that Christians would no longer require divine intervention to achieve their mission. They could presumably dispense with prayer, or, perhaps, just alter the name of their deity. The deafness of the Christian who responded positively to this Trump promise would arise directly from the corruption promoted by the thirst for political power.
Evangelicals drawn to Trump, however, lost their way long before they responded to this pied piper. Their anxiety over the plight of whites exposes a fundamental misunderstanding of the faith they serve. Christians celebrate a deity for whom distinctions of ethnicity or gender have no meaning.
Changes in society represent the least of the problems these people face.
913
This further highlights the difference between cultural evangelicals and genuine evangelicals, the former reportedly forming the unscrupulous Trump crowd. They are passionate without grounding from the Gospel, which makes them difficult to dissuade, like any extremist.
10
" The gospel proclaims God's unconditional love for humanity..."
To many evangelical Trump supporters the humanity that the gospel proclaims God's unconditional love for is white humanity. The others don't matter.
To many evangelical Trump supporters the humanity that the gospel proclaims God's unconditional love for is white humanity. The others don't matter.
13
Donald J. Trump says, “you’re going to have plenty of power — you don’t need anybody else.” Something is wrong with this picture. Mr. Dobson will be forced to cut him slack. White Christians do not have a fundamental misunderstanding of their own faith; they understand white faith perfectly, as Mr. Trump understands needing nobody else. That is a threat to serious evangelicals.
4
Times certainly have changed! We cannot go back to the "good old days" when minorities such as the Chinese, Japanese and Mexicans were shuffled off to the side in everything, jobs, education, etc. The face of America is no longer white but ebony, chocolate and crème. The face of California use to be blonde and white; now Asian and Hispanic. American was founded by the White Christian people and has had to evolve into what it is today. There's not turning back. To think otherwise is dillusional and foolish.
50
I am amazed that so many who express fidelity to constitutional principles like rule of law and limited government, principles that constrain the power of government, now support for president a man who above all else believes in the unfettered use of power.
301
"...Mr. Jeffress said that in the face of perceived threats facing evangelicals,
' I want the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find in that role.'
Instead of apparently hoping that the "meanest" and "toughness" of Donald Trump will somehow increase the dwindling numbers in their churches, Mr. Jeffress and his fellow "embattled" evangelicals might ask themselves why so many are turning away. Could it possibly be that their overriding messages of exclusion and intolerance have something to do with it?
' I want the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find in that role.'
Instead of apparently hoping that the "meanest" and "toughness" of Donald Trump will somehow increase the dwindling numbers in their churches, Mr. Jeffress and his fellow "embattled" evangelicals might ask themselves why so many are turning away. Could it possibly be that their overriding messages of exclusion and intolerance have something to do with it?
413
Everyone who claims to know what God thinks is an utter fraud taking the name of God in vain.
52
@Susan:
Many tune out the Evangelical message because they tired of hearing their message of hate.
Evangelical Christians hate; evangelical leaders especially. Oh, they deny any such thing, of course, or excuse it with the bromide "hate the sin but love the sinner"; that sort of thing. But that's just cover. They hate both.
Evangelical leaders support Trump because they expect a President Trump to do their bidding by crucifying their enemies -- the rest of us because we mock and ignore them and even dare to call them out for their hypocrisy. That they hate most of all. And, who knows? If President Trump and his family can pocket a few billion more dollars, maybe he will.
Many tune out the Evangelical message because they tired of hearing their message of hate.
Evangelical Christians hate; evangelical leaders especially. Oh, they deny any such thing, of course, or excuse it with the bromide "hate the sin but love the sinner"; that sort of thing. But that's just cover. They hate both.
Evangelical leaders support Trump because they expect a President Trump to do their bidding by crucifying their enemies -- the rest of us because we mock and ignore them and even dare to call them out for their hypocrisy. That they hate most of all. And, who knows? If President Trump and his family can pocket a few billion more dollars, maybe he will.
36
Sounds like what Jeffress wants is the anti-Christ. In Trump, that is what, in my opinion, he would get.
8
For openers, one should examine the artwork that accompanies this essay. The praying hands say "you are #1." What white evangelical "Christians" *really* mean is "we're #1."
The author cites a survey that positively gushes tears: "seven in 10 white evangelical Protestants say the country has changed for the worse since the 1950s."
The 1950's, it should be remembered, were a time that white Americans had it all their way. America was legally segregated until 1954, when the Supreme Court upended comfortable white supremacy by ruling that our system of apartheid is little different from that practiced in South Africa, Rhodesia, or in French, Portuguese, or Dutch colonies in the Third World.
But what's really key in this essay is the continued employment of the word "white" to describe people who claim to be guided and motivated by the teachings of Jesus Christ. When was the Son of Man ever uppermost in the hearts of those who condoned Jim Crow? Who turned away the teenage girl, unwed and frightened? Who saw no dark face at their place of worship, not even the janitor? Whose values were mirrored by the nascent television industry in which every program wore a white face, from newscasts to entertainment to commercials? Whose political choices for national and local office defaulted to two white men?
These CINO's (Christians In Name Only) hunger for the good old days when they sipped their mint juleps at the all-white country club.
Trump promises them a return to all that.
The author cites a survey that positively gushes tears: "seven in 10 white evangelical Protestants say the country has changed for the worse since the 1950s."
The 1950's, it should be remembered, were a time that white Americans had it all their way. America was legally segregated until 1954, when the Supreme Court upended comfortable white supremacy by ruling that our system of apartheid is little different from that practiced in South Africa, Rhodesia, or in French, Portuguese, or Dutch colonies in the Third World.
But what's really key in this essay is the continued employment of the word "white" to describe people who claim to be guided and motivated by the teachings of Jesus Christ. When was the Son of Man ever uppermost in the hearts of those who condoned Jim Crow? Who turned away the teenage girl, unwed and frightened? Who saw no dark face at their place of worship, not even the janitor? Whose values were mirrored by the nascent television industry in which every program wore a white face, from newscasts to entertainment to commercials? Whose political choices for national and local office defaulted to two white men?
These CINO's (Christians In Name Only) hunger for the good old days when they sipped their mint juleps at the all-white country club.
Trump promises them a return to all that.
586
Nice point on the "white Christian" theme, especially since the real Jesus, if one existed, would have been a short, swarthy Semite. If the tall, blonde and blue-eyed Jesus of American Christian fantasy strolled into Old Testament Jerusalem, he might have been stoned to death by a fearful mob.
31
You can let the media culture continue to scare you away from both of these support systems, but you have to admit there is nothing else.
Even fear of being shot escaping wasn't enough to make the ultimate liberal experiment, the Soviet Union, economically or morally sustainable.