How can you expect whites to care about the blm when they speak out about killing white people?
If you cant respect the lives of all races, you will be ignored
If you cant respect the lives of all races, you will be ignored
4
BLM activists are focusing their attention on the wrong party. Police aren't stopping lots of poor and minority people, fining them for every possible infraction, jailing those who can't pay, and occasionally shooting someone because they're racist or rogue, they're doing it because their department and elected city leaders have turned police departments into revenue generators and armed collection agents for municipal coffers. The gentleman in Minnisota was stoped an average of three times a year for thirteen years, fifty two stops, almost ninety tickets, and $6,500 in fines, and almost none of it for an actual traffic violation. On his fifty second police stop, he was executed by an incompetent fool. The real criminals here aren't the police, but city governments who view their disenfranchised citizens as rubes to be fleeced to line city coffers. Take a look at the DOJ report for the city of Ferguson and multiply it by ten thousand. Theirs are the policies causing excessive stops, harassment, hugh levels of fines, jailing poor people who can't pay, and souring citizen's relationship with police departments. There are racist cops out there, but not in large enough numbers to create this fiasco.
3
We have often admonished aggressive advocacy as giving license to the unstable to go farther than any leader of an group intends. There is a long history of such on all sides. When you characterize police shootings as "murders" as even shown in a photograph attached to this article, you have to be ready for the unstable people triggered by such. Just because your cause is good does not allow escape.
2
Black Americans have been saying for a long time now that they're often the targets of mistreatment by the police. Now that cell phones are ubiquitous, everyone else can see what they've been talking about, and it's not pretty.
3
As an avid reader of the New York Times, I've been told many times that harsh rhetoric means your group is directly responsible if a mass killer at any time ever agreed with any position you've ever taken. Please don't tell me that principal only applies to pro-life groups, Republicans and Tea Party groups.
"Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon."
"What do we want? Dead Cops."
"No Justice, No Peace!"
Own it.
"Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon."
"What do we want? Dead Cops."
"No Justice, No Peace!"
Own it.
11
BLM isn't responsible for the shooting in Dallas but their tactics of shouting, confrontation to the face of power, though different and effective is only a symptom of our screaming society. Even if they are totally successful in all they seek, what kind of president is set? As with all those who scream to press their point, they establish the new normal- shout, threaten don't listen.
5
The Dallas sniper forces BLM to argue the logic, that the despicable action of an individual should not impugn the integrity and good intentions of a larger group. This is a notion, however, they categorically reject in the cases of excessive force by policemen, such that they automatically protest any African American death due to police encounters as not only wrongful, but caused by racism, promotion the belief that all police act with prejudice in enforcing the law.
What a bitter irony.
What a bitter irony.
13
Too many are taking the wrong attitude on the latest round of pointless violence.
It's not a black people problem. It's not a white people problem. It's not a religious problem. It's not a mental health problem. It's not an LGBT problem. It's not a cop problem. It's not a redneck problem. It's not a poor person's problem.
It's an American problem.
Try this crazy idea - empathize. Imagine it was your brother, your sister, your friend, or your neighbor who was killed for no reason.
It doesn't matter the skin color or the uniform color. It matters that people are being a shot and killed for no other reason than they were going about their business or doing their job.
It doesn't matter that they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. It doesn't matter if they look different than you. It doesn't matter if they worship differently than you do. It doesn't matter if they speak a different language than you.
What matters is that no innocent person should have their life snuffed out because someone else pulled a trigger.
America, we need a time out. We need to learn to respect those who are different than us. We need to remember that our bodies, from one to the next, are pretty much the same.
Same bones. Same blood. Same organs.
What makes each of us unique is the bit between the ears. Focus on changing that. Change your rage to peace. Change your hate to love. Learn to embrace those who are different from you.
Empathy. That's where it's at.
It's not a black people problem. It's not a white people problem. It's not a religious problem. It's not a mental health problem. It's not an LGBT problem. It's not a cop problem. It's not a redneck problem. It's not a poor person's problem.
It's an American problem.
Try this crazy idea - empathize. Imagine it was your brother, your sister, your friend, or your neighbor who was killed for no reason.
It doesn't matter the skin color or the uniform color. It matters that people are being a shot and killed for no other reason than they were going about their business or doing their job.
It doesn't matter that they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. It doesn't matter if they look different than you. It doesn't matter if they worship differently than you do. It doesn't matter if they speak a different language than you.
What matters is that no innocent person should have their life snuffed out because someone else pulled a trigger.
America, we need a time out. We need to learn to respect those who are different than us. We need to remember that our bodies, from one to the next, are pretty much the same.
Same bones. Same blood. Same organs.
What makes each of us unique is the bit between the ears. Focus on changing that. Change your rage to peace. Change your hate to love. Learn to embrace those who are different from you.
Empathy. That's where it's at.
19
Thanx. I know no one who's died for a good reason, other than great uncles who died for the US without kids in the World Wars. Even my husband's convicted murderer got life.
As a white man who supports the BLM movement, I really don't recall them suggesting that anyone take up arms. That's not to say that other influencers could be at fault, but to blame BLM is a bit of a disconnect,
I don't recall anyone making similar connections between the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupiers and, say the NRA, but naturally, when black people are involved, the blame game goes towards any "uppity" organization.
He was a lone gunman. That's it.
I don't recall anyone making similar connections between the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupiers and, say the NRA, but naturally, when black people are involved, the blame game goes towards any "uppity" organization.
He was a lone gunman. That's it.
8
The lazy association of Black Lives Matter with the sniper just illustrates weak reasoning. Was the anti-abortion movement stopped dead by the attack on a Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood clinic? We are in a hurry to blame minority groups for the actions of the disturbed few in those groups, but equally quick to excuse the white population for the actions of disturbed white gunmen and bombers. At least that is the reality this old white guy sees.
6
If radical Islam imams can influence young Muslims to adopt extremist views, can the radical rhetoric of BLM not do the same to young blacks?
7
Obama built this. He invited BLM to the White House to commend them for their "important work" while they were shouting in the streets to kill police. Pigs in a blanket - fry them like bacon. I recall that during a BLM phot op and press conference with Obama at the White House the ankle bracelet on one of the leaders of BLM went off loudly. Before the facts were known about the killing of Philando Castille he was quick to seize the moment to condemn police and a few hours later, his speech incited violence in Dallas.
9
What a perverse sentiment. As if the NSDAP was gaining ground until the Beer Hall Putsch.
My husband, who was black, was murdered. It was a cop who found the hijacker who shot him in the neck. Given I lived with him in Harlem, I got grief from the cops all the time. You see, being white, I had no business in that neighborhood.
All Lives Matter
My husband, who was black, was murdered. It was a cop who found the hijacker who shot him in the neck. Given I lived with him in Harlem, I got grief from the cops all the time. You see, being white, I had no business in that neighborhood.
All Lives Matter
5
The Nazi analogies are hardly appropriate.
Harlem has changed a lot since you lived there -- but your loss is unfortunate.
Harlem has changed a lot since you lived there -- but your loss is unfortunate.
2
I was born I New York and last lived there 7 years ago, and have lived Uptown most of my adult life. (I remember the moonshots, and from Koch and Dinkins--just not DeBlasio) My father worked on the 77th and 78th floors of the South Tower, my next door neighbor was killed at Windows on the World as a mere coincidence. I know NYC and war's ugly face.
I thought the NDSAP reference was apt, since it would require an educated reader to catch it, and I fear we are at that stage in our history. Kristallnacht Eve. I just can't believe it is after twice electing a "black" president.
My sincere thanks for the condolences.
I thought the NDSAP reference was apt, since it would require an educated reader to catch it, and I fear we are at that stage in our history. Kristallnacht Eve. I just can't believe it is after twice electing a "black" president.
My sincere thanks for the condolences.
2
Dallas shows that cops generally have good reason to be afraid of blacks. Fear will confuse and accidents will happen to cops that are less capable of dealing with the fear.
I commute through Jersey City by rail. I walk fast and I was late one day. Young man of the vulnerable demographic was looking at his phone and veering back and forth on a small ramp off the rail platform. I ducked under his arm and evidently whacked him with the bag on my back. I didn't even notice at the moment. I heard something, thought "Ohh shoot, I whacked that guy, I need to apologize." I turned around.
In the process of turning the verbiage shifted to a description of my sexual relationship with my mother. Kept turning, and continued walking for my train.
He followed me into the subway and stated if I ever touched him again he'd do permanent damage to my face. Wouldn't back it down to a conversation where an apology would be appropriate. Eventually I just looked him in the eye, said that I was turning around and walking away, and did so, fully prepared to round on him and put both of us in the hospital and him in Rahway (state prison).
He was just another idiot young kid (such are endemic to every race), but I've never had such an encounter with white kid. I've had black friends, and I have black acquaintances, but of such encounters are attitudes made. I see hate in the face of a small percentage of of black men on the subway presumably for no other reason than that I'm white.
I commute through Jersey City by rail. I walk fast and I was late one day. Young man of the vulnerable demographic was looking at his phone and veering back and forth on a small ramp off the rail platform. I ducked under his arm and evidently whacked him with the bag on my back. I didn't even notice at the moment. I heard something, thought "Ohh shoot, I whacked that guy, I need to apologize." I turned around.
In the process of turning the verbiage shifted to a description of my sexual relationship with my mother. Kept turning, and continued walking for my train.
He followed me into the subway and stated if I ever touched him again he'd do permanent damage to my face. Wouldn't back it down to a conversation where an apology would be appropriate. Eventually I just looked him in the eye, said that I was turning around and walking away, and did so, fully prepared to round on him and put both of us in the hospital and him in Rahway (state prison).
He was just another idiot young kid (such are endemic to every race), but I've never had such an encounter with white kid. I've had black friends, and I have black acquaintances, but of such encounters are attitudes made. I see hate in the face of a small percentage of of black men on the subway presumably for no other reason than that I'm white.
8
With all due respect, you sound like a racist by demonizing an entire race on the account of a few individuals.
Another thing.
It's exactly this kind of mentality that makes it difficult for any kind of dialogue on race to take place in this country.
And you might want to get outside of Jersey a bit more.
Another thing.
It's exactly this kind of mentality that makes it difficult for any kind of dialogue on race to take place in this country.
And you might want to get outside of Jersey a bit more.
5
Even as an elderly man, I am - like all other white men - daily "profiled" by law enforcement and subject to "stranger - danger" change of behavior by women, young and not so young (can I say old?) alike ... as they suddenly speed up their steps on shopping mall parking lot or crossing the road to the opposite sidewalk.
I do not like being profiled by police, see women acting that way and yes, it is mildly annoying and insensitive or perhaps even insulting to me.
Yes, police profiling of me and women acting in "stranger - male - danger" is not making me happy and some police encounters - where they "checked on me" were at minimum scary and degradation.
Yet is is one of the supposed "privilege" of being (white) men: we are being profiled MUCH more often than women and I have to live withb that every day, all my life.
Is that gender discrimination? Racism? Hate against men?
I don't think so. Since the stats say that white men are 9-times more likely to commit violent crime, it makes all sense to (white) males are profiled, zeroed on by police etc.
There are no marches, no activists, no protests, no looting stores, burning city blocks in protest of (white) male profiling and "stranger-danger" stereotypes.
Why profiling and stranger danger against white males is OK, no problem, no reason for "movement" yet when black men are 6-times more likely than general population to commit violent acts and thus subject of profiling it is racism, discrimination, insult to dignity?
I do not like being profiled by police, see women acting that way and yes, it is mildly annoying and insensitive or perhaps even insulting to me.
Yes, police profiling of me and women acting in "stranger - male - danger" is not making me happy and some police encounters - where they "checked on me" were at minimum scary and degradation.
Yet is is one of the supposed "privilege" of being (white) men: we are being profiled MUCH more often than women and I have to live withb that every day, all my life.
Is that gender discrimination? Racism? Hate against men?
I don't think so. Since the stats say that white men are 9-times more likely to commit violent crime, it makes all sense to (white) males are profiled, zeroed on by police etc.
There are no marches, no activists, no protests, no looting stores, burning city blocks in protest of (white) male profiling and "stranger-danger" stereotypes.
Why profiling and stranger danger against white males is OK, no problem, no reason for "movement" yet when black men are 6-times more likely than general population to commit violent acts and thus subject of profiling it is racism, discrimination, insult to dignity?
6
Someone has to read the real data on black & white shootings and on Black Lives Matter. Then, let's talk.
9
The killing of a law enforcement officer is wrong and should be condemned by all. They are there at the behest of modern day civilization to protect and serve all of society and hence there is no justification whatsoever for the dastardly acts that were metered out to these 12 officers in Dallas. Killing of these officers as revenge for the recent slayings of the two Americans defies the logic of modern day civilization and leads the way for anarchy.
Killing of law officers is certainly not the way for solving the present problems facing the oppressed and downtrodden in society.
The leaders of these demonstrations should make it abundantly clear to their supporters that violence of any sort is not going to help their cause and they should condemn very strongly these actions against law enforcement officers and non-sympathizers of their cause.
Killing of law officers is certainly not the way for solving the present problems facing the oppressed and downtrodden in society.
The leaders of these demonstrations should make it abundantly clear to their supporters that violence of any sort is not going to help their cause and they should condemn very strongly these actions against law enforcement officers and non-sympathizers of their cause.
6
The zeitgeist didn't make it 48 hours.
It was there, real, and tangible.
And, then 'poof'. Deadliest attack on law enforcement since 9/11 exorcised it.
It was there, real, and tangible.
And, then 'poof'. Deadliest attack on law enforcement since 9/11 exorcised it.
1
The irony is that this had been a peaceful march. There were plenty of photos of cops holding signs and smiling with protesters. Here's a secret liberals might want to know-good cops hate bad cops because they make the job harder. In Dallas, Chief Brown has worked hard to break the cycle of silence on police shootings. He has fired key people who were in the wrong. Complaints against DPD were down 80%. And then this. And make no mistake while BLM tries to distance itself, the drumbeat of what it has said resonates in the urban community for good or ill. For those of you that think BLM is the final word on honesty, go back and look how many of their assumptions were proven wrong by something we call EVIDENCE. Also, while BLM postures as some moral arbiter, make no mistake about the ultimate goal of Deray and Elzie-they want to take their brand and make it into a career in much the same way Rev. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have used their dubious skills to acquire wealth and consolidate power. When Deray tries to claim that in the ensuing protests only the cops were violent, he's using The Big Lie. The cops weren't throwing bricks, molotov cocktails and bottles-it was the protesters and if BLM doesn't take public action to control their message, they will be blamed for every shooting of every cop in the country. And that message will ride in the back of the head of every single cop at every single stop.
10
We need to change the culture of the USA, but what we are dealing with is not racism, it is not black verses white, it is the inappropriate drug laws in this country and how they breed criminality and an inappropriate amount of people in jail.
We need to legalize, regulate, and tax the vast majority of illegal drugs in this country to get rid of the criminality in cities and especially the inner cities in this country. Doing so will end the huge conflict between the communities and the police. The communities are who buy, sell, deal and consume the illegal drugs. That creates the cash economy that is a criminal economy. There is one way to end that fast, legalize most drugs. Overnight the criminal organizations will go broke. Overnight crime will drop dramatically. Overnight the police won't be pulling over cars looking for drugs.
We need to release all drug offenders of the now legal drugs. But they won't have anywhere to go to work because the criminal organizations will be gone. They will have to find legal jobs. What a beautiful thing!
We need to legalize, regulate, and tax the vast majority of illegal drugs in this country to get rid of the criminality in cities and especially the inner cities in this country. Doing so will end the huge conflict between the communities and the police. The communities are who buy, sell, deal and consume the illegal drugs. That creates the cash economy that is a criminal economy. There is one way to end that fast, legalize most drugs. Overnight the criminal organizations will go broke. Overnight crime will drop dramatically. Overnight the police won't be pulling over cars looking for drugs.
We need to release all drug offenders of the now legal drugs. But they won't have anywhere to go to work because the criminal organizations will be gone. They will have to find legal jobs. What a beautiful thing!
Local law enforcement agencies abuse their power every minute of every day through intimidation, fabricating evidence, lying on police reports and - worst of all - covering for each others lies via the Blue Wall of Silence.
Murdering black men is simply the most extreme case of this institutional criminal activity by the very men and women paid to protect, serve and enforce the law.
The police need to be policed. The best way to start reform is through complete transparency:
1) Every on-duty cop must wear a bodycam.
2) Every bodycam recording must be posted online for public access within 24-hours of the officer's shift. Three years of searchable archives must be maintained.
3) All arrest reports must be maintained in a searchable online database with links to the bodycam video.
Chances are we'll quickly see a dramatic drop in police abuse and better community policing.
Murdering black men is simply the most extreme case of this institutional criminal activity by the very men and women paid to protect, serve and enforce the law.
The police need to be policed. The best way to start reform is through complete transparency:
1) Every on-duty cop must wear a bodycam.
2) Every bodycam recording must be posted online for public access within 24-hours of the officer's shift. Three years of searchable archives must be maintained.
3) All arrest reports must be maintained in a searchable online database with links to the bodycam video.
Chances are we'll quickly see a dramatic drop in police abuse and better community policing.
2
That might work but one might for a moment think of the person you are subjecting all these rules to. Who would not feel intimidated and untrusted with this system . Could you imagine doing your own job with such rules ? If you start a relationship by saying you don't trust the other person what would you expect from them ?
3
Body cameras should operate the entire time an officer is on duty and the entire recording released without edits. This would truly expose things. Probably not what the BLM movement really wants.
7
Controloholics: who's gonna control 'em?
1
The media has to stop stoking race as an issue and so do Democratic politicians. Hillary Clinton lecturing "white people;" Joe Biden telling a black audience "They'll have y'all back in chains" and Barack Obama saying "If I had a son he'd look like Trayvon" --- all very wrong.
14
Sure thing. But let's keep it honest - Trump will have to stop with his racist Tweets and comments. And so will his supporters.
If you get that to happen, then we can talk,
If you get that to happen, then we can talk,
6
Plenty of outrage to go around here.
A lot of people, probably mostly white, are outraged at the murder of the Dallas cops. In their pain and in their fury, they demand to know why the cops could be killed while simply doing their jobs, without offending anyone. They tend to dismiss the reason for the cop killings, which is one of the ugliest of emotions, revenge.
A lot of people, probably mostly black, are outraged at the murder of scores of blacks at the hands of the cops. In their pain and in their fury, they demand to know why so many blacks could be shot, strangled, and beaten to death for simply driving, or standing on the street corner, or walking down the middle of the street away from the cops, or while handcuffed and kneeling on the subway platform, or privately playing with a toy gun in the park, all without offending anyone. But the reasons for their outrage can't be dismissed, or avoided, or denied: racially biased, predatory, power-drunk, paranoid, undereducated and ill-prepared cops are everywhere, and they consider aggressive control of blacks as the routine nature of their work. The justice system often agrees with them, and supports them.
Now that the debate has digressed into who is to blame for all the outrage, the actions necessary to stop police violence against innocent blacks and revenge killings of police are likely to be overlooked. Stay tuned for more of the same.
A lot of people, probably mostly white, are outraged at the murder of the Dallas cops. In their pain and in their fury, they demand to know why the cops could be killed while simply doing their jobs, without offending anyone. They tend to dismiss the reason for the cop killings, which is one of the ugliest of emotions, revenge.
A lot of people, probably mostly black, are outraged at the murder of scores of blacks at the hands of the cops. In their pain and in their fury, they demand to know why so many blacks could be shot, strangled, and beaten to death for simply driving, or standing on the street corner, or walking down the middle of the street away from the cops, or while handcuffed and kneeling on the subway platform, or privately playing with a toy gun in the park, all without offending anyone. But the reasons for their outrage can't be dismissed, or avoided, or denied: racially biased, predatory, power-drunk, paranoid, undereducated and ill-prepared cops are everywhere, and they consider aggressive control of blacks as the routine nature of their work. The justice system often agrees with them, and supports them.
Now that the debate has digressed into who is to blame for all the outrage, the actions necessary to stop police violence against innocent blacks and revenge killings of police are likely to be overlooked. Stay tuned for more of the same.
10
The media is responsible for ALL of this. They LOVE racial animous because in their minds, you are either a Democrat or a racist -- and you don't want to be a racist, do you?
So at every opportunity they create some statistically false narrative that then allows the grievance industry patrons to get in high dudgeon, and things spiral out of control.
Nobody doubts there are bad cops; there are bad everything.
But, there are Party conventions coming up, and the media loves race riots. And so now we will see them casting about for every little racial tidbit they can blow out of proportion.
So at every opportunity they create some statistically false narrative that then allows the grievance industry patrons to get in high dudgeon, and things spiral out of control.
Nobody doubts there are bad cops; there are bad everything.
But, there are Party conventions coming up, and the media loves race riots. And so now we will see them casting about for every little racial tidbit they can blow out of proportion.
13
There must surely be a backlash against the open-carry activists attending a counter rally in Dallas. Despite their illusory "good guy" rhetoric, in the hail of bullets, they only complicated the police response and put lives in danger. Shame on them!
2
Sorry, we have no time for outrage against them, we're more worried because a BLM supporter listened to their inflammatory rhetoric and murdered five cops.
4
The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. F. Scott Fitzgerald, "The Crack-Up", Esquire Magazine (February 1936).
I cried when I watched Philando Castile die, and I cried again when I watched Dallas police officers gunned down in the street. We must be able to relate to the human beings on both sides of America's racial divide. Otherwise we cannot take advantage of the opportunity presented by our current crisis, and nothing positive will come from these horrible tragedies.
I cried when I watched Philando Castile die, and I cried again when I watched Dallas police officers gunned down in the street. We must be able to relate to the human beings on both sides of America's racial divide. Otherwise we cannot take advantage of the opportunity presented by our current crisis, and nothing positive will come from these horrible tragedies.
3
It wasn't a sniper. It was an ambush. Big difference.
A sniper engages from beyond return fire range and typically does not break cover until forced or necessary to re-engage. Then retrogrades before the opposing force can reach him or displaces to another designated shooting position.
This guy set up an ambush with a designated kill zone. He had the tactical advantage. He then initiated fire and movement/maneuver to close with and kill additional police who were moving on him. He then fell back to a defensible holding position.
A sniper engages from beyond return fire range and typically does not break cover until forced or necessary to re-engage. Then retrogrades before the opposing force can reach him or displaces to another designated shooting position.
This guy set up an ambush with a designated kill zone. He had the tactical advantage. He then initiated fire and movement/maneuver to close with and kill additional police who were moving on him. He then fell back to a defensible holding position.
14
There is no right to block public roads or to accost others. Every marcher, missionary, marathoner, pro-lifer etc who has blocked my driveway, thrown trash in my yard, urinated and smoked on my lawn- and they've all been there through the years, last lessened my sympathy for their cause. I give money to planned parenthood, stridently refuse to worship Mormon or Jehovah, and still consider that my life, white as it is, matters.
11
I'm tired of being tired too. Tired of racists being ignored or forgiven if they happen to be black. Obama's greatest failure in his many years as president has been his complete disregard for racial reconciliation for no other reason than it was more politically expedient to draw a line between white and black people and take a side. He's done nothing but create more tension between our citizens.
14
so the reflexive racism by the republicans/neocons/tea party upon the election of barack obama and the constant race baiting by fox and the other right wing media outlets has done nothing to agitate racial divisions in this country?
terrorist fist bumps?
"why does obama hate white people"?
show us your birth certificate?
you?
terrorist fist bumps?
"why does obama hate white people"?
show us your birth certificate?
you?
4
The poster the men in the picture are holding, "STOP MURDER BY POLICE", has the link to revcom at the bottom and a picture of Michael Brown in the second row.
Revcom, The Revolutionary Communist Party of the USA teaches that Michael Brown was murdered by Officer Wilson.
http://revcom.us/search.html
Do the Black Lives Matters protesters serve Bob Avakian willingly/knowingly?
Revcom, The Revolutionary Communist Party of the USA teaches that Michael Brown was murdered by Officer Wilson.
http://revcom.us/search.html
Do the Black Lives Matters protesters serve Bob Avakian willingly/knowingly?
12
Yes they do!
It is always going to be a problem for any entity that is born from a lie such as Ferguson was....."hands up don't shoot" never happened.
Their other big problem is that they don't really support Black Lives Matter....the only lives they show any credence too are those of color that are killed by Police while young Blacks slaughter other young Blacks in Chicago by the thousands.
They should have had a on going group in Chicago....I don't really blame them for not going there with it being a war zone.
Their other big problem is that they don't really support Black Lives Matter....the only lives they show any credence too are those of color that are killed by Police while young Blacks slaughter other young Blacks in Chicago by the thousands.
They should have had a on going group in Chicago....I don't really blame them for not going there with it being a war zone.
15
He wasn't a sniper, and BLM had nothing to do with him. BLM does not advocate violence or use the language of violence. The only way this is a crisis for BLM is in the minds of the media who would LOVE it to be a crisis - crisis is exciting, crisis sells ad space, crisis makes better visuals.
6
I must have missed who was chanting "What do we want, dead cops. When do we want it, now... denial follows lying to myself, which, when I do leads directly to anger, then to blame, which is caused by guilt. BLM had everything to do with the cop killings.
6
I've watched every video I can find on the Minnesota incident and I have a question. Where is the video showing what happened in the minutes and seconds before the the minnesota event? It appears this woman had her cell phone on during the whole stop. Why does it pick up obviously some time after the the shots were fired?
Someone said this was streamed to Youtube. Can anyone verify that?
She seems to remain amazingly calm given the circumstances. I don't think I could have remained that calm.
So many times in these incidents we get told one story when the event first happens and then the truth unfolds later. Initially we were told there were 4 or more shooters in Dallas and that they were firing from various rooftops surrounding the intersection. Sadly everyone reacts and attacks long before facts come out.
Someone said this was streamed to Youtube. Can anyone verify that?
She seems to remain amazingly calm given the circumstances. I don't think I could have remained that calm.
So many times in these incidents we get told one story when the event first happens and then the truth unfolds later. Initially we were told there were 4 or more shooters in Dallas and that they were firing from various rooftops surrounding the intersection. Sadly everyone reacts and attacks long before facts come out.
6
Possibly something happened to cause her to begin filming.
Mr D, you're being disengenuous....
The words you so conveniently quote ought to be assigned to the Black Panther movement, not BLM.
That being, perhaps it suits you to see all black people as one, and if your choosing nonetheless.
The words you so conveniently quote ought to be assigned to the Black Panther movement, not BLM.
That being, perhaps it suits you to see all black people as one, and if your choosing nonetheless.
Huh?
2
Statistics tell us about the masses, but not about the various -isms each individual history had faced. But the fear. Not the triumphs and heartaches.
990 people were fatally shot by police officers last year. Fatality rate by police: 0.00030623% of the population. ((990/(324,186,281(US population -900,000(police officers)))
Of those:
948 were male, 42 were female.
494 were white, 258 were black, 172 were hispanic, 38 were "other," and 28 were unknown.
18 were under 18 years old, 330 were 18-29, 353 were 30-44, 277 were 45 and up, and 12 were unknown.
250 showed signs of mental illness.
93 were unarmed.
124 police officers died in 2015. Fatality rate by citizen against police: 0.0137777778% of police (124/900,000)
42 from gunfire: 7 during traffic stops, 6 in ambush attacks, 5 investigating suspicious persons, and 7 in the investigation of domestic violence.
Everyone of these lives matter. And everyone was frightened of the other, the one who took their life.
Every life matters.
Lives matter.
We can point fingers, sit in judgment, live in fear, live in anger, live in hatred OR
Accept that we all suffer, we all thrive, and we must all come together and HELP EACH other end this.
990 people were fatally shot by police officers last year. Fatality rate by police: 0.00030623% of the population. ((990/(324,186,281(US population -900,000(police officers)))
Of those:
948 were male, 42 were female.
494 were white, 258 were black, 172 were hispanic, 38 were "other," and 28 were unknown.
18 were under 18 years old, 330 were 18-29, 353 were 30-44, 277 were 45 and up, and 12 were unknown.
250 showed signs of mental illness.
93 were unarmed.
124 police officers died in 2015. Fatality rate by citizen against police: 0.0137777778% of police (124/900,000)
42 from gunfire: 7 during traffic stops, 6 in ambush attacks, 5 investigating suspicious persons, and 7 in the investigation of domestic violence.
Everyone of these lives matter. And everyone was frightened of the other, the one who took their life.
Every life matters.
Lives matter.
We can point fingers, sit in judgment, live in fear, live in anger, live in hatred OR
Accept that we all suffer, we all thrive, and we must all come together and HELP EACH other end this.
13
1) "Pigs in a blanket (body bags), fry em like bacon" ..., 2) "What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want them? Now!"......... These were chants in various cities, including NYC; by BLM protesters - and were chanted en masse, sometimes for 10-15 minutes.. BLM owns this and has the blood of the many officers shot on their hands.. BTW: Mr. Green - there “comes a time when white people will snap.”
20
Why, when the shooter is black is race is offered as the explanation? Why, when a movement seeks justice for blacks, (e.g., Black Lives Matter) is a movement blamed? Why, when the shooter is Muslim is Islam blamed? Why, when the shooter is white he is just crazy or another explanation that is devoid of race, affiliation, or religion offered?
1
When the shooter is white the GOP, Fox News, Limbaugh, Christianity are blamed with absolutely no basis
9
When the shooter himself explains that he wanted to kill white police.
8
This is a case of somebody misreading everything.
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/the-danger-of-the-black-lives-matter-move...
BLM is a group that knowingly misleads. The facts don't support their narrative. The lies they promote truly do put black lives in danger.
BLM is a group that knowingly misleads. The facts don't support their narrative. The lies they promote truly do put black lives in danger.
11
This is the sort of cheap, tendentious, not-so-vaguely racist narrative that NYT excels at. So readers are now supposed to accept as fact the assertion that in regard to the legitimacy of Black Lives Matter, "everything has changed." Give me a break. Here are some things that haven't changed: a. Black lives matter; b. oppression and systematic appropriation of Black bodies persists; and c. We can depend on pillars like NYT to elide or erase consciousness of a. and b.
4
Please distinguish between black lives matter and Black Lives Matter.
3
The first is a true statement. The second is a Soros funded political and racially motivated entity.
2
Please NYT it is time to start reporting factually. If and when the next incident occurs how about waiting for all the facts are in before reporting? Stop inciting and reporting based on emotion and your preferred false narrative rather than fact. Don't you think enough damage has been done?
14
I dislike the rage in the protests. It leads many whites to see blacks as vengeful—and some are. My complaint is tactical. I know these people are furious, but if they held mass rallies that were peaceful and calm—candle-light vigils reflecting the Leipzig protests before the end of the DDR—that would certainly shame a lot of white people into sympathizing with them, the way dogs and firehoses being trained on black kids once did.
If someone pulled a Jan Palach, that would get the world's attention—not just America's. The problem with some of the militant rhetoric, especially when it comes from blacks, is that it reinforces white people's racist stereotype of blacks as violent and helps perpetuate the idea that the police are justified in their own violent behavior towards blacks, who are to be feared.
If we want unity, peacefulness in protests, and in rhetoric, is necessary. There's a tendency among liberals to see history's "losers" as victims and to affiliate themselves with the weaker side (which is why America is often vilified). White America isn't demonic, like some think, nor is it angelic. And what good does it do for blacks to tell whites, as Michael Eric Dyson did in these pages, that we'll never know what it's like to be black in America, while at the same time trying to explain the very thing they've just said we can't grasp?
To whom are you speaking? Tell us of our crimes; tell us of your suffering; but don't tell us we don't want to—or can't—atone.
If someone pulled a Jan Palach, that would get the world's attention—not just America's. The problem with some of the militant rhetoric, especially when it comes from blacks, is that it reinforces white people's racist stereotype of blacks as violent and helps perpetuate the idea that the police are justified in their own violent behavior towards blacks, who are to be feared.
If we want unity, peacefulness in protests, and in rhetoric, is necessary. There's a tendency among liberals to see history's "losers" as victims and to affiliate themselves with the weaker side (which is why America is often vilified). White America isn't demonic, like some think, nor is it angelic. And what good does it do for blacks to tell whites, as Michael Eric Dyson did in these pages, that we'll never know what it's like to be black in America, while at the same time trying to explain the very thing they've just said we can't grasp?
To whom are you speaking? Tell us of our crimes; tell us of your suffering; but don't tell us we don't want to—or can't—atone.
6
This is why anger is a deadly sin....
1
There are reports indicating that Philando Castille's car was stopped because it matched the description of a getaway car implicated in an armed robbery and because his 'wide nose' matched that of the suspect in the robbery. There are also reports suggesting that he did not have CCW license. His attorney says he did not comply with the orders to not move.
We have seen this movie before. Michael Brown was not exactly the 'gentle giant' his mother wanted us to believe. I am not saying that Philando was a criminal but that we need to wait for all facts to come in. The cop who shot him was a Latino, and it was not kosher for Obama to jump to conclusion and say that there are biased (white) individuals against blacks and Hispanics. This was a Latino on Black shooting. Obama should think before he opens his mouth to say anything. Disgrace.
We have seen this movie before. Michael Brown was not exactly the 'gentle giant' his mother wanted us to believe. I am not saying that Philando was a criminal but that we need to wait for all facts to come in. The cop who shot him was a Latino, and it was not kosher for Obama to jump to conclusion and say that there are biased (white) individuals against blacks and Hispanics. This was a Latino on Black shooting. Obama should think before he opens his mouth to say anything. Disgrace.
18
1) the new york times is a newpaper whose responsibility it is to report the news.
2) if obama had said "this thug should have obeyed the police officer and this wouldn't have happened" you would have been ok with that regardless of how much he thought before saying it or how quckly he said it.
see, i understand you.
2) if obama had said "this thug should have obeyed the police officer and this wouldn't have happened" you would have been ok with that regardless of how much he thought before saying it or how quckly he said it.
see, i understand you.
4
The new york times is a website whose function it is to make money for its owners. Reporting the news is a very quaint notion in the days when the reporter's opinion screams from every word. You need to learn to see bias even when you like it.
6
Obama is addicted to his predetermination of everything.
5
I went back and read the NYT articles and comments around Dylan Roof and the Charleston massacre. Essentially a racially motivated shooting, just like the Dallas shooting, however, the general consensus of the comments were different in tone and emotion.
Not vitriolic anger, but sadness. No consensus to decry white nationalist groups like Storm Front or the Tea Party. It was mostly spoken about as a "tragedy"; an "isolated act"; and a guns laws issue. It was rare that someone outright called the event racist. Few took stabs at a larger current beneath that may have motivated the racial attack. Those who did, were shouted down as being reactionary.
One person wrote: "It is sad that the acts of a lone gunman are immediately spun into political discourse; to support one argument or another that the left or the right, the democratic or the republican, the black or the white is responsible. This is a single deranged, mentally ill, lunatic who will be embraced by no one. This is not a product of our society; just the opposite - this is a product of a misguided loner who had no parenting, no mentoring, no education and no moral compass."
WHY THEN, I ASK, is it now okay to place blame on a movement that had no responsibility for the shooting? Why doesn't the quote by the commentor above, JUST ONE YEAR AGO, not apply now? Is there a double standard at play?
Why has America decided the action of one person, "fairly, or unfairly," was not theirs alone, but the BLM movement's also?
Not vitriolic anger, but sadness. No consensus to decry white nationalist groups like Storm Front or the Tea Party. It was mostly spoken about as a "tragedy"; an "isolated act"; and a guns laws issue. It was rare that someone outright called the event racist. Few took stabs at a larger current beneath that may have motivated the racial attack. Those who did, were shouted down as being reactionary.
One person wrote: "It is sad that the acts of a lone gunman are immediately spun into political discourse; to support one argument or another that the left or the right, the democratic or the republican, the black or the white is responsible. This is a single deranged, mentally ill, lunatic who will be embraced by no one. This is not a product of our society; just the opposite - this is a product of a misguided loner who had no parenting, no mentoring, no education and no moral compass."
WHY THEN, I ASK, is it now okay to place blame on a movement that had no responsibility for the shooting? Why doesn't the quote by the commentor above, JUST ONE YEAR AGO, not apply now? Is there a double standard at play?
Why has America decided the action of one person, "fairly, or unfairly," was not theirs alone, but the BLM movement's also?
4
Again, because there were to rallies exhorting people to walk into a church and murder a bunch of bla chk worshipers. That is the difference.
4
In London today my daughter and I joined a march and rally. The demand was that Americans need to force police to stop stop killing black people. The ongoing murder of black people is an international disgrace and Americans should be ashamed.
3
hopefully your daughter has other sources of education that can give her informed, unbiased information. Shame on you
9
I used to think Londoners were smart.
We all want the police to defend us and themselves against criminals even when the press portrays the criminals as innocent.
You should hold your tongue and review the grand jury cases of Michael Brown and Trevon Martin. Then lecture us on shame.
We all want the police to defend us and themselves against criminals even when the press portrays the criminals as innocent.
You should hold your tongue and review the grand jury cases of Michael Brown and Trevon Martin. Then lecture us on shame.
6
Hopefully the Dallas murder of police officers just doing their job will bring us to point where everyone needs to turn down the rhetoric. When the Governor of Minnesota is quoted saying “Would this have happened if those passengers — the driver and the passengers — were white?” he asked. “I don’t think it would’ve” it reminded me of Tom Brady the then Mayor of Los Angeles publicly saying he thought the Rodney King verdict was unjust and pointed at the “Simi Valley” jury. When a high official publicly says things like that (whether they believe it or not) it gives credence and some license to violent reactions which they failed to anticipate.
Is it ironic that the Times has a paragraph expressing concerns about unions and conservative leaders using the Dallas attacks as “a cudgel that, fairly or not, they are eager to swing” DIRECTLY above a picture of protestors marching with a “STOP Murder by Police” banner? Where do you draw the line between cause and cudgel?
Is it ironic that the Times has a paragraph expressing concerns about unions and conservative leaders using the Dallas attacks as “a cudgel that, fairly or not, they are eager to swing” DIRECTLY above a picture of protestors marching with a “STOP Murder by Police” banner? Where do you draw the line between cause and cudgel?
5
Is there a collective amnesia regarding how BLM chased Bernie off the stage in Seattle, or how they savaged O'Malley for saying All Lives Matter?
16
But it is the times that feeds you that lethe. The times will never again mention, if it can possibly help it, what happened in Dallas, except as part of a "cycle of violence".
1
The big picture here is the normative role that violence plays in the psyche of the American man. A violent American man is someone who commands respect. The whole nation pays attention to a man who goes on a killing binge. Any man who feels dissed and ignored need only adopt an ideology of grievance, get an automatic weapon and shoot his desired enemy of choice, and he will get his 3 days in the spotlight.
That is the American way of men working out their identity issue : we are granted the single emotions of anger and rage -- anything else and you're not a real man, but a woman, and we all know how much value women are granted in this culture.
Until people everywhere stop valuing we men for how good we are at killing the imagined enemies of our chicken-hawk government, this will not change.
Our government is at fault. They send our soldiers across oceans to kill for mostlhy baseless reasons and then expect them to return home and not have a few of them kill for baseless reasons in the homeland.
The United States government does not value the lives of men. We are sent abroad for spurious, deviant reasons to help rearrange geopolitical realities conducive to corporate business interests in the transnational economy, and so that senior politicians can have bragging rights over controlling vast swatches of international affairs.
Men everywhere should revolt against this demeaning hi-jacking of male energy for worthless ends.
That is the American way of men working out their identity issue : we are granted the single emotions of anger and rage -- anything else and you're not a real man, but a woman, and we all know how much value women are granted in this culture.
Until people everywhere stop valuing we men for how good we are at killing the imagined enemies of our chicken-hawk government, this will not change.
Our government is at fault. They send our soldiers across oceans to kill for mostlhy baseless reasons and then expect them to return home and not have a few of them kill for baseless reasons in the homeland.
The United States government does not value the lives of men. We are sent abroad for spurious, deviant reasons to help rearrange geopolitical realities conducive to corporate business interests in the transnational economy, and so that senior politicians can have bragging rights over controlling vast swatches of international affairs.
Men everywhere should revolt against this demeaning hi-jacking of male energy for worthless ends.
2
I suppose you're the non-judgmental type.
1
BLM now what they have been chanting came true they are saying "Don't blame us" well it it a little late for that. August 2015 chants of Pigs In A Blanket.... and in Manhatten shouting "What Do We Want? Dead Cops When Do We Want Them ? Now!" It is time for this organization to be held accountable. There are even reports it is joining forces with the New Black Panthers and that tells it all. A radical left wing organization bent on not helping but destroying.
15
The first paragraph refers to a video of a police officer shooting a black man to death in Minnesota. The video does not show the shooting. It begins after the man was shot.
12
You're not following the message. The officer shot Philandro in cold blood while he was complying because his girlfriend, Diamond, said he was.
That's all the evidence the witch hunting lynch mob of public opinion needed to riot. It fed the beast perfectly.
That's all the evidence the witch hunting lynch mob of public opinion needed to riot. It fed the beast perfectly.
13
People are looking for simple solutions to a multi-layered, complex problem. Mr. Johnson appears to have probably been mentally unbalanced, just as the Orlando killer was. Both decided to align themselves with a "cause" to justify their actions. Combine mentally unstable individuals with easy access to firearms and racial tension and you get the types of events we are witnessing far too often. Law enforcement knows that any person they stop these days may be carrying a weapon. We see few convictions when deadly force is used because the laws are written to give the benefit of the doubt to the police. Minorities who are hounded by petty traffic stops and other indignities have a right to be angry. People who live in neighborhoods rife with crime, drugs, poverty, poor schools and no economic opportunity have a right to be discouraged. The majority of people killed by law enforcement are mentally ill. The County Sheriff in the city I lived in for 20 years said his jail was the largest mental health facility in area. We, as a society, as getting exactly what we deserve to some extent. We are awash in lethal fire arms. We inadequately provide for the mentally ill. Education costs are out of reach for many. Income inequality continues to increase. Many minority communities face violence daily. Black Lives Matter will have more credibility when they acknowledge these complexities, and work to solve them. Voting instead of throwing bombs will have more impact.
10
They have been voting the same way for 30 years and each year it has gotten worse for them......did you know that with Obama as president that minorities have suffered the most economically......it was much better for them under Reagan or Bush something you won't find one single liberal acknowledge.
6
8 years of Obama and his corrupt failed nightmare Presidency and nobody has suffered because of Obama
More than Black America, especially economically. 8 years of Obama and everywhere you look there is chaos, division, violence, death, and despair. While Obama slanders the police over a handful of questionable shootings, most eventually proven to be justified like Ferguson, the black on balck mirder rate has nearly doubled. Look at democrat run, gun controlled, Chicago. Over the 4th of July weekend 16 murdered and 82 shot, but Obama says nothing. Two shootings, not investigated yet, and with no facts Obama was out slandering the police as racists again and inciting what happened in Dallas. Obama is the worst most divisive And FAILED President in our history. He has made everything worse.
More than Black America, especially economically. 8 years of Obama and everywhere you look there is chaos, division, violence, death, and despair. While Obama slanders the police over a handful of questionable shootings, most eventually proven to be justified like Ferguson, the black on balck mirder rate has nearly doubled. Look at democrat run, gun controlled, Chicago. Over the 4th of July weekend 16 murdered and 82 shot, but Obama says nothing. Two shootings, not investigated yet, and with no facts Obama was out slandering the police as racists again and inciting what happened in Dallas. Obama is the worst most divisive And FAILED President in our history. He has made everything worse.
6
" Combine mentally unstable individuals with easy access to firearms and racial tension and you get the types of events we are witnessing far too often."
I would add repeatedly biased, inflammatory reporting to the combustible mix that pushes unstable individuals over the edge.
I would add repeatedly biased, inflammatory reporting to the combustible mix that pushes unstable individuals over the edge.
4
"But public, nonviolent confrontation, rather than private conciliation, is central to the group’s mission: shouting at police officers, for example, or staging elaborate “die-ins” that evoke death at the hands of law enforcement."......Really???
Unless you forget "Pigs in a blanket, fryem' like bacon." and "What do we want? Dead cops. When do we want them? Now." I wasn't born yesterday. This is what BLM protesters have called for and were never denounced for it. They got what they wanted. Words matter.
Unless you forget "Pigs in a blanket, fryem' like bacon." and "What do we want? Dead cops. When do we want them? Now." I wasn't born yesterday. This is what BLM protesters have called for and were never denounced for it. They got what they wanted. Words matter.
32
When Iran "explains" that "death to america" is just a political chant, do I believe them? NO.
7
Throwing bricks and bottles....
I am not convinced that BLM really should be gaining ground. As its name implies, the fundamental premise of BLM is inherently racist. It is, in the end, another special interest group. While it is true that everyone has the right to gather and protest in public, persons who show a pattern of organizing demonstrations that become violent are rightly suspect. The (black) chief of police of the City of El Paso is not as generous about BLM as am I. The chief in Dallas has been thoughtfully quiet, I suspect due to the experience of his own personal tragedies. The small number of cases (and I do not mean to minimize the tragedy of any of them ) of unjustified race-based shootings by police in the US is insufficient to suggest that there is a systemic problem with our police departments. Department of Justice statistics show that the majority of homicides of black Americans are committed by other blacks. I would feel a little better about BLM if they spent more time protesting violence within the black community, where the statistics prove the greater problem lies.
18
The observation that one of the key differences between today and the 60's is the lack of leaders is correct- but there are other differences. An entire generation of minorities are being encouraged through false and misleading narratives to ignore, disrepect and attack the police. This has been led by the universities, Obama, and lastly by the our own self-destructive behaviors. No one will look at BLM the same after this, nor should they-despite liberal enabling.
13
If "Black Lives Matter" would just broaden its slogan to:
"All Lives Matter" it would reach far more people and gain far
more legal and political power.
"All Lives Matter" it would reach far more people and gain far
more legal and political power.
7
I agree but this would require that the group disassociate with its victim status. Without their victim status, they fall apart.
10
The night of the shootings of police officers, BLM Members were Chanting "Pigs in a blanket; fry 'me like bacon." This is demonstrative of the attitude of its members.
21
Just remember this scene.....Manhatten months ago and a crowd marching in protest of a black man dead perhaps by possible choke hold, a victim of prejudice and just overzealous cops.
What is the crowd chanting?
They are chanting "What do want? Dead cops! When do we want them? Now!"
Does that inspire everyone with confidence in the Black Lives Matter universe?
What is the crowd chanting?
They are chanting "What do want? Dead cops! When do we want them? Now!"
Does that inspire everyone with confidence in the Black Lives Matter universe?
24
White Supremacy and Black Power / BLM are different flavors of the same poison.
Ignorant, uncontrolled, Ill thought out racist garbage...
Ignorant, uncontrolled, Ill thought out racist garbage...
23
The difference is that White Supremacy was only ever part of the Democratic Party and has been denounced by both. Black Lives Matters' racist position is the mainstream of the Democratic Party.
Ben Tillman. Theodore Bilbo. George Wallace. DeRay Mckesson.
Ben Tillman. Theodore Bilbo. George Wallace. DeRay Mckesson.
2
A common criticism of BLM is that it fails to acknowledge the statistically much larger issue of violent crime within predominantly black communities. The main issue:
Inner city gang culture.
Chicago's poor neighborhoods are a prime example, with astronomic gun violence rates. Wear the wrong colors, get shot. Walk down the wrong street, get shot. Send a disrespectful tweet, get shot. This is the harsh reality.
Gang culture is a cancer that should be tackled head on. Unfortunately, too often that lifestyle is glamorized – in song, in fashion, in attitude, in gun possession. And this makes people afraid. And the police are afraid.
It's a difficult subject. But an honest conversation about the corrosive nature of violent gang culture, and how to address it, would help.
Inner city gang culture.
Chicago's poor neighborhoods are a prime example, with astronomic gun violence rates. Wear the wrong colors, get shot. Walk down the wrong street, get shot. Send a disrespectful tweet, get shot. This is the harsh reality.
Gang culture is a cancer that should be tackled head on. Unfortunately, too often that lifestyle is glamorized – in song, in fashion, in attitude, in gun possession. And this makes people afraid. And the police are afraid.
It's a difficult subject. But an honest conversation about the corrosive nature of violent gang culture, and how to address it, would help.
16
The core problem is the BLM narrative has as its core assumption that black lives have not mattered or mattered enough and it's all the fault of the police.
That's a massive assumption to promote based on highly publicized anecdotes of tragedies involving police. These are the kind of assumptions that can tip some people over the edge who don't know the whole truth, are inflamed by what they hear and want justice for this narrative. As we have seen in Dallas it does not take a lot of people to be tipped over the edge to create tremendous damage.
BLM has to own the anti-police rhetoric of "fry em like bacon" and other cop killing chants that were in the marches in the past year. When the main thrust of your movement is that the police are the enemy the rhetoric is going to slide deep into the ditch.
Overall the police are shooting and killing more non-black people but that has not been publicized or sensationalized so the public outcry has been muted. Perhaps it should be because it will help get everyone on the same page so we can engage with our police in a way forward not a lot of hate filled rants. We need change not rage and hate.
That's a massive assumption to promote based on highly publicized anecdotes of tragedies involving police. These are the kind of assumptions that can tip some people over the edge who don't know the whole truth, are inflamed by what they hear and want justice for this narrative. As we have seen in Dallas it does not take a lot of people to be tipped over the edge to create tremendous damage.
BLM has to own the anti-police rhetoric of "fry em like bacon" and other cop killing chants that were in the marches in the past year. When the main thrust of your movement is that the police are the enemy the rhetoric is going to slide deep into the ditch.
Overall the police are shooting and killing more non-black people but that has not been publicized or sensationalized so the public outcry has been muted. Perhaps it should be because it will help get everyone on the same page so we can engage with our police in a way forward not a lot of hate filled rants. We need change not rage and hate.
11
Cops kill more white people. Check the FBI stats.
5
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/the-danger-of-the-black-lives-matter-move...
Exactly. Facts should matter.
Exactly. Facts should matter.
5
By gaining ground, do you mean that their chants of "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" were getting louder?
16
BLM was founded on multiple lies--that Martin didn't attack Zimmerman, that Brown was shot in cold blood--and until the media sensationalized two police shootings last week, was headed to irrelevancy.
The problem with BLM is: no centralized leadership, no accountability, no consistency, it panders to the most paranoid members of society, and it plays very very loose with the facts. It takes what are undeniably local problems and makes them national: it is informed by sensibilities from 1965--not 2016.
The notion that any police department engages in willful discrimination in this era of massive civil judgements (all cities settle for millions, unless there's iron-clad photographic evidence to the contrary), or that any cop sets out in the morning intending to endanger his own life and livelihood by getting in a fight, is absurd. And if there are mistakes, they need to be treated as what they are: outlier events, management or procedural issues.
Occam's razor says: these activists need to check their grip with reality.
The problem with BLM is: no centralized leadership, no accountability, no consistency, it panders to the most paranoid members of society, and it plays very very loose with the facts. It takes what are undeniably local problems and makes them national: it is informed by sensibilities from 1965--not 2016.
The notion that any police department engages in willful discrimination in this era of massive civil judgements (all cities settle for millions, unless there's iron-clad photographic evidence to the contrary), or that any cop sets out in the morning intending to endanger his own life and livelihood by getting in a fight, is absurd. And if there are mistakes, they need to be treated as what they are: outlier events, management or procedural issues.
Occam's razor says: these activists need to check their grip with reality.
20
I'm betting Castile and "Diamond" we're messing around with the officer in Minnesota also and hoping to provoke him while capturing it on video. It just got out of control and ended in a loss of life and a socially destroyed officer.
Alton Sterling was a convicted felon for child molesting and drug dealing, spent 5 years in prison, was selling pirated CDs illegally, brandished an (illegal) handgun at a homeless person, then refused to surrender the gun and resisted arrest.
This is getting to be so ridiculous that it's going to backfire, enormously, on the BLM credibility...what little there is.
Alton Sterling was a convicted felon for child molesting and drug dealing, spent 5 years in prison, was selling pirated CDs illegally, brandished an (illegal) handgun at a homeless person, then refused to surrender the gun and resisted arrest.
This is getting to be so ridiculous that it's going to backfire, enormously, on the BLM credibility...what little there is.
18
SOROS funds BLM. Last time I checked, he funded Bernie. Last time I saw him he was still white. He's the master of emotional investing.
It's a manipulated and exasperating, camouflaged set of moves and motives, but when you see chaos funded and promoted, you only have to see who profits to grasp the storyline.
It's a manipulated and exasperating, camouflaged set of moves and motives, but when you see chaos funded and promoted, you only have to see who profits to grasp the storyline.
6
We need to raise taxes on the wealthy.
Municipalities are covering their budget shortfalls on the backs of black and brown citizens, using their neighborhoods to excessively write minor traffic tickets, which leads to fines, possible arrests, and more fines, ad nauseam.
Raise taxes.
Enact stronger gun laws.
Repair our infrastructure.
Provide job programs in all the most vulnerable areas, from Appalacia to Chicago.
Municipalities are covering their budget shortfalls on the backs of black and brown citizens, using their neighborhoods to excessively write minor traffic tickets, which leads to fines, possible arrests, and more fines, ad nauseam.
Raise taxes.
Enact stronger gun laws.
Repair our infrastructure.
Provide job programs in all the most vulnerable areas, from Appalacia to Chicago.
5
Go straight to Las Vegas!
3
The following sentence leaped off the page for me.
“This has to stop,” Mr. Patrick said, adding of the police officers, “These are real people.”
Indeed the police officers were "real people." And does the Lt. Governor have an opinion about other men who found themselves at the wrong end of a gun last week - and every week (including in his state)? I'm not implying that he does not value those other lost lives, but it is clear that chose to speak out in this way only after the tragedy on the streets of Dallas.
And that is why movements like Black Lives Matter become necessary in the first place. Teachable moments abound and honest self-effacing politicians who want to teach might also open themselves to wanting to learn.
“This has to stop,” Mr. Patrick said, adding of the police officers, “These are real people.”
Indeed the police officers were "real people." And does the Lt. Governor have an opinion about other men who found themselves at the wrong end of a gun last week - and every week (including in his state)? I'm not implying that he does not value those other lost lives, but it is clear that chose to speak out in this way only after the tragedy on the streets of Dallas.
And that is why movements like Black Lives Matter become necessary in the first place. Teachable moments abound and honest self-effacing politicians who want to teach might also open themselves to wanting to learn.
3
Arresting the leader of BLM was an extremely silly thing to do. BLM had nothing to do with the killing of the five policemen. BLM was protesting the killing of innocents who will never receive justice. The police who killed the innocent are the terrorist. Now he is a hero not only to the young marching with him, but those who lived through the 60's and remember the Civil Rights Marches. Those who remember the dogs. The so called authority of any age will never be able to decide who the leaders and heroes are of any movement. The FBI did all it could to discredit Dr. King, Malcom X, Stokley, The Black Panthers, Angela Davis, etc. They are still heroes of that movement. They are still studied. We will now have new heroes and more will arrive on the scene.
2
Funny how BLM had no leaders until two days ago when they trotted out Mr. Mckesson.
1
Right beneath all the political correct comments we are so used to, and speech's for the next day or so, lays a smoldering obvious Racism. As a society we cannot seem to shake it. Our society is very segregated. All the billions and government legislation hasn't solved segregation. We simply hate to admit we live in two distinct societies. Our police forces are full of black officer, major cities have black mayors, major cities have black police captains.
I approve of the use of a robot to engage with Mr. Johnson.
Can the robot be used to immobilize an individual without killing them? It would be an advance if they could reduce the risk to police and at the same time decrease the deaths of those the police are seeking to arrest.
Such police "tools" could also be sent to initially evaluate people pulled over in their vehicles for mimor violations, or to evaluate people with possible minor violations like selling CDs on a street.
This could be a win-win for all.
Can the robot be used to immobilize an individual without killing them? It would be an advance if they could reduce the risk to police and at the same time decrease the deaths of those the police are seeking to arrest.
Such police "tools" could also be sent to initially evaluate people pulled over in their vehicles for mimor violations, or to evaluate people with possible minor violations like selling CDs on a street.
This could be a win-win for all.
1
The Washington Post authoritative database of fatal police shootings shows that whites (including Hispanics) made up 69.2 percent of those fatally shot by police in 2015 while blacks made up 26.8 percent. Blacks make up only 13 percent of the population, but this is not a relevant demographic. The relevant statistics is the number of fatal police shootings as a percentage of arrests. The FBI Uniform Crime Report (Data Table 43: Arrests) shows that whites made up 69.4 percent of arrests, a percentage that almost exactly matched their 69.2-percent share of police shooting fatalities. The FBI report shows that blacks made up 27.8 percent of those arrested, a number that closely matched their 26.8-percent share of fatal police shootings. This wouldn’t be possible if racism was a significant factor in police shootings. One might argue that the racial disparity in arrests is due to racism, but the racial disparity in arrest corresponds closely to the racial disparity in victim reports, which are disproportionally filed by African Americans.
13
Are White Supremacist groups, KKK etc responsible for Dynlan Roof? Yes, at minimum partially. Is BlackLivesMatter responsible for the assassination of 5 Dallas police officers? Yes, partially.
10
The demented sniper has not done any harm to "Black Lives Matter," except in the minds of those who didn't support it, in the first place. That sniper had nothing to do with BLM.
3
He was just carrying out the directives of the BLM chants...."What do we want" Dead cops."
10
Who said "What do we want, dead cops, when do want it, now"? When anyone lies they lie to themselves first. When called on it, they're invariably tempted an often succumb to 1. Anger 2. Denial 3. Blame and 4. Guilt.
Socrates also had two things to say 1. Know thyself and 2. It is better for a man to suffer injustice than to commit it. He practised what he taught. Drank the hemlock and skipped the escape clause.
Socrates also had two things to say 1. Know thyself and 2. It is better for a man to suffer injustice than to commit it. He practised what he taught. Drank the hemlock and skipped the escape clause.
4
"Stop Murder by Police" reads the banner carried by Black Lives Matter protesters in a photo accompanying this article. Now posit a banner that reads "Stop Murder by Blacks" and the problem is revealed. Well, yeah, no one wants murder by police or Blacks.
But neither banner is intended to encourage dialog or a consideration of solutions. With wording that implies collective guilt, the banners are designed to outrage and inflame. Catharis has its place, but if Black Lives Matter can't move beyond its current approach, it is doomed to fizzle even without the murders of the Dallas police. The civil rights giants of the 1950s and 60s left us all a template worth studying.
But neither banner is intended to encourage dialog or a consideration of solutions. With wording that implies collective guilt, the banners are designed to outrage and inflame. Catharis has its place, but if Black Lives Matter can't move beyond its current approach, it is doomed to fizzle even without the murders of the Dallas police. The civil rights giants of the 1950s and 60s left us all a template worth studying.
9
With the Internet, people can post whatever they want. But we should remember that some people with mental illness cannot process disturbing comments easily. More violence will only bring more violence. Do we really want to turn our country into Syria today?
6
The hallmarks of the Civil Rights movement were dignity, courage, and, ironically, restraint. Can BLM learn from this history?
16
From the beginning The Black Lives Matter has had a violent faction, coupled with fascist and racist motivations. The press and politicians have excused that behavior for political reasons instead of encouraging to repress that type of behavior. The so called "peaceful" protests have not been peaceful. They have insulted, provoked, demanded, burned and looted without accepting any repercussion or responsibility just to say, "it wasn't me" even while they keep with their incendiary rhetoric. This is what has brought us to this point: chaos, civil war and unrest and it's going to continue until the politicians stop looking the other way when BLM promotes violence, and the press stops exploiting the movement for their own means.
18
What was it Rodney King said those many years ago - why can't we all just get along? There is so much hate in the air - facilitated, sadly by internet and social media where any of us can spill our ids out freely, by some in the broadcast media - I have to cite Fox News - and, most sadly of all, by the GOP's would-be president, by the House Republicans, I could go on and on. So much blaming, wholesale scapegoating, fearmongering, devaluing and dehumanizing of the other. Thank god for our President, trying to foster understanding and healing. How can we as a society restore civility, tolerance, unity to our culture - we need those values in order to prosper in our diverse and pluralistic America.
2
Obama has not fostered healing. Just ask any cop. I mean any cop.
7
Hmm. Perhaps you might begin by recognizing that blame is guilt.
Black and minority lives still matter, as do police lives, and all lives. We will not fracture on these latest killings of minorities and police. If we want less minorities killed, less people killed, less homicide (already down 49% from mid-1990's), and less suicide, we'll work together on a variety of solutions. There is no silver bullet (no pun intended) and wwe can't lose interest in solutions that take time to work. Gun control is not our salvation. Stricter controls will only impact these complex systems a bit. The key is leveraged changes, i.e., paradigm, mindset, and systems goal changes. It would give me real hope if the police reached out to minority leaders to lead the change in the states and locally. The Federal government only imprisons 10% of us. the problems we have are State and Local. No more polarization. The two Africa-American deaths and the police deaths should make it clear that polarization and not taking action means more violence.
2
Hatred in general, and racism in particular cannot be eliminated from the spectrum of human emotions. Acts of violence escalate hatred universally; acts of kindness, meekness, and humility can have the opposite effect. Instead of marches, protests, shout downs, and demands, could BLM accomplish more with substantial, charitable activities to help those most in need? Is earning admiration more powerful than demanding respect? Is identifying as 'American' a more powerful message than as 'African-American?' Would losing the 'black' and just being LM enlist more or less support? Americans are wonderfully charitable, an overlooked potential in this most vexing problem.
5
This violence is a symptom of a much larger and complex problem, and the problem has multiple and intersecting causes. As Americans, we have a Congress that refuses to govern, refuses to pass laws and redistribute taxes for the best interests of the people. Congress refuses to pass laws and fund agencies to go after the massive tax cheating of large corporations and the super wealthy. Congress refuses to address climate change, which affects all of us and will affect us more. This inequality creates inequalities on the ground - communities with poisoned water, communities with inadequate schools, communities with inadequate mental health care and physical healthcare. And then the inequalities explode, and here we are, pointing fingers and blaming one another while ignoring the larger problem in our midst. So what if BLM addressed excessive use of force to whomever it occurred and acknowledged violence in bad neighborhoods in Chicago? What if police acknowledged that poverty and desperation drives a lot of the crime that puts African Americans in prisons? What if the NRA acknowledged that some gun regulation is needed? Then we can all turn together and say, we deserve better from our Congress. We deserve functioning infrastructure, accessible health care, fully funded schools, fair and honorable wages We deserve what our ancestors fought so hard for: government of the people, by the people, and for the people, for the common good.
7
I disagree with 100% of what you said. Forget Congress. You first have to deal with your fellow citizens who do not believe the tripe you are peddling.
4
Racism by blacks is at least as bad as racism by whites. Until we acknowledge that fact, race relations will not improve.
13
Racism is human, or inhuman. No one is free from the temptation. Mercy, hope, love, charity, sacrifice, humility are human and anybody can practice them faithfully. But you gotta ask. And you gotta want to.
1
If these events are as simple as portrayed here, then the next time, possibly today, when a person is killed unnecessarily by police then should it be considered a rally for the visiting team? The only real winner in these times is the NRA.
1
Trouble, tribulation, distrust and hate, not to mention people killing each other in an unstoppable wave. It's not the moon, but this tide of death is obviously encouraged and fomented in many ways by the NRA. Police are very afraid they may not go home after their shift; afraid that they may find themselves in a situation where they are surprised by an unbalanced individual with a gun, which may be more powerful than the sidearm that comes with the blue uniform.
If we want peace and a stop to the killing, we need to reexamine the meaning of the second amendment. Hey out there! What militia do YOU belong to to justify your weapon. How good was your training? Did you ever serve in the US military? Do you have the training to control a weapon,,, to control yourself to keep that weapon from taking a life for which will devastate the lives of so many people, encouraging them to distrust anyone they don't know (though you may have a nut or two in your family, and they have a gun).
Give it up, America, Let common sense prevail and let lives be left whole. Respect anyone and everyone you see until they give you a reason not to. Military and desperate police are the ONLY people who need weapons. If you want a gun for defense of your home, keep it at home, not on your hip to impress (or frighten) anyone who sees it. You really don't need an assault weapon for self defense... it won't work as well as a sidearm in close quarters..
If we want peace and a stop to the killing, we need to reexamine the meaning of the second amendment. Hey out there! What militia do YOU belong to to justify your weapon. How good was your training? Did you ever serve in the US military? Do you have the training to control a weapon,,, to control yourself to keep that weapon from taking a life for which will devastate the lives of so many people, encouraging them to distrust anyone they don't know (though you may have a nut or two in your family, and they have a gun).
Give it up, America, Let common sense prevail and let lives be left whole. Respect anyone and everyone you see until they give you a reason not to. Military and desperate police are the ONLY people who need weapons. If you want a gun for defense of your home, keep it at home, not on your hip to impress (or frighten) anyone who sees it. You really don't need an assault weapon for self defense... it won't work as well as a sidearm in close quarters..
5
You are seriously, I mean seriously mistaken. The second amendment, not the NRA is the guarantor of a right to defend life and private property. I choose not to arm but but I and ever law abiding American has a right to bear arms. Police officers have a duty to.
6
The Black Live Matter has real, legitimate concerns around the use of excessive police force. Nonetheless, the Philadelphia Inquirer today reported extreme insensitivity and provocation directed at police in last evenings demonstration in a neighborhood in Philadelphia. In the aftermath of the 5 slaughtered officers in Dallas, this type of behavior is incomprehensible.
13
There were 258 blacks shot dead by police in 2015. That's too high and serious steps need to be taken to reduce it.
Meanwhile, there were 453,650 black victims of violent crimes in 2014, the vast majority of which were perpetrated by blacks. If BLM really cares about saving black lives, their almost obsessive focus on the police is grievously misplaced. BLM should direct its efforts in proportion to the problem, and tackle the problem of black on black crime. In doing so, they would save far more black lives, and police would not longer have a reason to be fearful for their safety when encountering young black men.
Sources:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv14.pdf
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/01/23/3198481/blacks-times-homicid...
Meanwhile, there were 453,650 black victims of violent crimes in 2014, the vast majority of which were perpetrated by blacks. If BLM really cares about saving black lives, their almost obsessive focus on the police is grievously misplaced. BLM should direct its efforts in proportion to the problem, and tackle the problem of black on black crime. In doing so, they would save far more black lives, and police would not longer have a reason to be fearful for their safety when encountering young black men.
Sources:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv14.pdf
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/01/23/3198481/blacks-times-homicid...
15
Let me put this question to Mr. Patrick: if the Black Lives Matter created the tone and the environment that led to the shooting of 5 police officers in Dallas, then who was responsible for setting the tone and the environment that led to the shooting of Amadou Diallo to Abner Louima to Michael Brown to Tamir Rice to Alton Sterling to Philandro Castile, to name only a few??? The deaths of those 5 five officers is a tragedy but their assassin was killed by a police bomb. The police responsible for these murdered Black men and boys walk free and enjoy their freedom with their families. Mr. Patrick, tell me about the environment where the murder of Black men is acceptable and the murder of police is not?
4
Michael Brown was Violent criminal who got exactly what was coming to him. It is these Lies fostered by the BlackLiesMatter crew which utterly discredit the movement.
6
Resentment is a sick and self-consuming passion.
1
I'm a saggy old white guy & I don't see what the Dallas cop killer has to do with BLM. Trying to connect him would be like trying to connect Charles Joseph Whitman, the 1966 University of Texas at Austin shooter in the tower, with the Civil Rights movement.
After the endless string of deaths at the hands of law enforcement, traceable back to the end of the Civil War I could understand if black people have decided to shoot back? How many more centuries would they want to live like 2nd class citizens or worse?
I'm feeling pretty radical myself & can't even imagine what my black friends must feel like when it appears government is at war with their whole race. I never had to warn my lily white daughters about how to avoid being shot down by the cops. I've never lost a relative or friend via death by cop. No white person has ever felt behind the 8 ball due to the color of their skin.
Should we tell our black friends to be patient & wait for 2116 or 2216 because by then everything will be OK? No doubt some newly ex-slave told her kids that back in 1865 believing Mr. Lincoln had indeed set them free onto a new path of respect & equality. Bless her heart.....we know how that turned out for her & her kids.
The majority of cops are good but also the majority of blacks are also good. Sure couldn't tell it by watching the TV the last 20 or more years. People doing the shooting ought to chill out when those they shoot at start shooting back. I stand with my black friends.
After the endless string of deaths at the hands of law enforcement, traceable back to the end of the Civil War I could understand if black people have decided to shoot back? How many more centuries would they want to live like 2nd class citizens or worse?
I'm feeling pretty radical myself & can't even imagine what my black friends must feel like when it appears government is at war with their whole race. I never had to warn my lily white daughters about how to avoid being shot down by the cops. I've never lost a relative or friend via death by cop. No white person has ever felt behind the 8 ball due to the color of their skin.
Should we tell our black friends to be patient & wait for 2116 or 2216 because by then everything will be OK? No doubt some newly ex-slave told her kids that back in 1865 believing Mr. Lincoln had indeed set them free onto a new path of respect & equality. Bless her heart.....we know how that turned out for her & her kids.
The majority of cops are good but also the majority of blacks are also good. Sure couldn't tell it by watching the TV the last 20 or more years. People doing the shooting ought to chill out when those they shoot at start shooting back. I stand with my black friends.
20
Okay. Would you connect Timothy McVeigh the Militia movement? How about Ted Kaczinski with the anti-technology movement? What about Eric Rudolph with the radical Prolife crowd? I would, and I hope you would too, so why now not associate this shooter with the BLM movement?
3
Rhetorical technique 1C: Write in and say you are a Republican or white or both and say you see no problem with BLM.
1
BLM is very similar to the failed Occupy Wall Street movement. Both groups have very legitimate grievances to air and for the most part do so in a peaceful manner. However, organizations need leaders. Without leaders, the loudest voices dominate the conversation to the detriment of the cause. Without leaders, activism becomes a self-serving exercise in expression, rather than a movement towards concrete goals. Of course, this man is no more representative of BLM than Dylan Roof is of white people or bad cops are representative of law enforcement. I can understand the anger that lead a commentator on CNN to claim that the police "shoot black men for sport". The problem is that broad generalizations allow people to retreat to their respective camps when we need to be coming together on common ground. The overwrought narratives that occasionally emanate from BLM activists only serve to alienate the people who are really needed for change: white people and cops. Before the shootings in Dallas, I believe both were understanding of the urgent need for reform. After Dallas, BLM needs to show that it, as an organization, has the maturity to respond without alienating the people who were on the cusp of coming over to their side. I know after decades upon decades of racism its tough to counsel patience but think that's what is required.
3
"Black Lives Matter" has been a disaster from the start. They are getting people killed, and no one cares.
17
Hoping that the tragedies in Dallas Baton Rough and Minneapolis make people more sensitive to each other in daily life whether they are civilians or law enforcement
3
I think there is a disingenuous notion in the BLM members mind that any officer that shoots a black man with the result of death is somehow automatically murder and based on racism. anything less than that is a evidence of a system of racism at the core of our justice system. So it appears they want only one outcome regardless of facts.
15
Gaining ground? If you mean gaining ground by fomenting hatred, disunity and misinformation - then sure. However, I feel the headline is not ironic, just pathetically disingenuous.
16
And except for a very dignified statement, Donald Trump has stayed entirely out of this. So far. I expect when he does resume his campaign, he will be very explicit about BLM, about the murders in Dallas, and about Hillary Clinton.
3
Calling BLM a civil rights organization seems like a stretch. The NAACP describes a civil rights organization as "A group dedicated to eliminating race-based discrimination and ensuring equality in all areas of American life." Seems BLM advocates race as the basis of person's identity and the prioritization of one race's interests over another. Going back and listening to what Martin Luther King Jr. really said is useful and stands in stark contrast to what is coming out of BLM protests.
13
The problem with the BLM movement is that I understand what they are against, but what exactly are they for? I don't see a vision anywhere. All I see is anger.
This is in contrast with the Civil Rights movement led by Dr. King, one of the great moral voices in history who was able to eloquently articulate what the movement was both for and against. The result was the landmark civil and voting rights legislation of the mid 1960s.
But then Dr. King was assassinated in 1968. The movement was hijacked by voices of anger and violence, such as the Black Liberation Army. Policemen were assassinated. Progress in civil rights came to a crawl.
BLM has organizers, not leaders. Anger, but not vision. There will never be another Dr. King, but until BLM gets some leadership that can articulate a positive vision and translate that into political action then BLM will continue to stumble along.
This is in contrast with the Civil Rights movement led by Dr. King, one of the great moral voices in history who was able to eloquently articulate what the movement was both for and against. The result was the landmark civil and voting rights legislation of the mid 1960s.
But then Dr. King was assassinated in 1968. The movement was hijacked by voices of anger and violence, such as the Black Liberation Army. Policemen were assassinated. Progress in civil rights came to a crawl.
BLM has organizers, not leaders. Anger, but not vision. There will never be another Dr. King, but until BLM gets some leadership that can articulate a positive vision and translate that into political action then BLM will continue to stumble along.
11
The military industrial comples's love of war comes back to haunt us. So many of our cops are ex-military and have been trained to brutalize and kill. Watch this video of Swedish cops (on vacation in US) handle a situation. Can we not learn from this?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3052317/Four-Swedish-cops-vacati...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3052317/Four-Swedish-cops-vacati...
3
"Black LIves Matter Was Gaining Ground. Then a Sniper.."
This is like saying the NRA is all for gun control since the gunning down of all those babies in their classroom.
Black Lives Matter does not have a problem. They are doing just fine. Right is on their side and so are the videos.
The real problem is the republican leaders and media that need to get a clue. You are trying to discredit a group while you back the wrong doings of bad police.
More so because this is the 21 Century. And your audience is getting smaller by the day. There is a reason for that.
In other words we do not believe you. You people have cried wolf one to many times.
This is like saying the NRA is all for gun control since the gunning down of all those babies in their classroom.
Black Lives Matter does not have a problem. They are doing just fine. Right is on their side and so are the videos.
The real problem is the republican leaders and media that need to get a clue. You are trying to discredit a group while you back the wrong doings of bad police.
More so because this is the 21 Century. And your audience is getting smaller by the day. There is a reason for that.
In other words we do not believe you. You people have cried wolf one to many times.
5
I am concerned that the media has really bought into this narrative -- "black lives matter was gaining ground then this happened." Yesterday the New Yorker claimed this shooting killed the movement. I think your judgments are premature. The reality that african americans are unfairly singled out by police for minor infractions and are much more likely to suffer unjusitified police violence did not change with the shooting. That reality is catching up to many Americans. It's a bell that can't be unrung once you know. Sure, there are people trying to challenge that emerging consciousness, to weild this violence like a cudgel, but they are the same people who were doing so before this shooting.
I think you should embrace a different narrative -- that this shooting made clear that the supporters of BLM are open to working with law enforcement (as they were in Dallas) and condemn violence against police. That this tragedy made clear that they are a non-violent movement, trying to find ways to express frustration and anger without harm.
Why don't we tell that story?
I think you should embrace a different narrative -- that this shooting made clear that the supporters of BLM are open to working with law enforcement (as they were in Dallas) and condemn violence against police. That this tragedy made clear that they are a non-violent movement, trying to find ways to express frustration and anger without harm.
Why don't we tell that story?
15
In a news conference Saturday in Warsaw, President Obama said it was “very hard to untangle the motives” behind the shooting (Micah Johnson, gunman in Dallas, killed five police officers.)“As we’ve seen in a whole range of incidents with mass shooters, they are, by definition, troubled,” Mr. Obama said. “By definition, if you shoot people who pose no threat to you — strangers — you have a troubled mind. What triggers that, what feeds it, what sets it off, I’ll leave that to psychologists and people who study these kinds of incidents.”
There you have it. The establishment and its media allies would like us to believe all anti-social activities are ill-conceived or troubled without searching these matters for the bottom.
The fact that well-armed police use excessive violence against the African Americans does not imply the police is the culprit, because the governing class consisting of state/local officials in all three branches either countenances or orders such violence so as not to look weak by their bosses from the ruling class standpoint. In fact, the governing class cannot be settled in power without having the blessing of the top of the ladder – the ruling class - federal government backed by capital numbered one percent of the population. As Bernie Sanders used to say: “Congress does not regulate Wall Street, Wall Street regulates Congress,” capital controls the police departments. Police force and other forces act as instruments of the state and they're not enemy.
There you have it. The establishment and its media allies would like us to believe all anti-social activities are ill-conceived or troubled without searching these matters for the bottom.
The fact that well-armed police use excessive violence against the African Americans does not imply the police is the culprit, because the governing class consisting of state/local officials in all three branches either countenances or orders such violence so as not to look weak by their bosses from the ruling class standpoint. In fact, the governing class cannot be settled in power without having the blessing of the top of the ladder – the ruling class - federal government backed by capital numbered one percent of the population. As Bernie Sanders used to say: “Congress does not regulate Wall Street, Wall Street regulates Congress,” capital controls the police departments. Police force and other forces act as instruments of the state and they're not enemy.
1
So tired of hearing about this color and that color. When will we unite and proclaim that all lives matter? Stop perpetuating this "color" bias and proclaim that all lives matter regardless of color or sexual preference.
10
@LD
Sorry. Without a doubt, you mean well -- but you are in Dreamland if you don't think that "color" matters in America.
Not only is color bias in this country's history, it's also in its DNA.
You can Google it -- it's all there.
Sorry. Without a doubt, you mean well -- but you are in Dreamland if you don't think that "color" matters in America.
Not only is color bias in this country's history, it's also in its DNA.
You can Google it -- it's all there.
2
Unfortunately the statistics demonstrate that the black lives matter movement is not based on facts. African Americans are disproportionately shot less than whites or Hispanics relative to criminal activity. This is because in truth the police - especially white offices - are more reluctant to shoot an African American as compared to whites or Hispanics.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myths-of-black-lives-matter-1468087453
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myths-of-black-lives-matter-1468087453
14
Here's the thing: BLM has not been an organized organization. Their actions vary depending on location. Rather than being strategic in their protests, they've opted for chants of, 'What do we want? Dead cops!'
Clearly, people are angry. I don't believe the shootings in BR or MN are any less tragic in the aftermath of Dallas. I do believe that due to the guerrilla-style tactics & playing on the anger the way BLM has for the last few years, they've opened themselves up to such criticism. YouTube videos of some BLM activists talking about how they want to murder cops, claiming those who have are heros, being glad cops were shot execution style... Added together, there's your reason on why this is a PR issue for them.
The way you spread your message is just as important, if not more so, than the message itself.
Clearly, people are angry. I don't believe the shootings in BR or MN are any less tragic in the aftermath of Dallas. I do believe that due to the guerrilla-style tactics & playing on the anger the way BLM has for the last few years, they've opened themselves up to such criticism. YouTube videos of some BLM activists talking about how they want to murder cops, claiming those who have are heros, being glad cops were shot execution style... Added together, there's your reason on why this is a PR issue for them.
The way you spread your message is just as important, if not more so, than the message itself.
9
They are still gaining ground.President Obama is starting to look very weak, as more African Americans are living in poverty after he has been in office for eight years. He has done very little to help the quality of lives for African Americans and he is leaving office. LBJ did more to make the US a more socially equal place then many other Presidents. Chicago is a disaster zone, with so many people getting killed and injured by gun fire and crime every day, and Obama has been silent. President Obama just backed Hillary Clinton and she just admitted lying to the US public with respect to the FBI investigation. Donald Trump is a loser. why do we have such bad leaders? For in reality our wealthy choose their stool pigeons that lead us. The Democracy that we have is an illusion. We currently have a $19.3 trillion dollar deficit, and the Fed has $ 4 trillion on their books which is not really of value, and so as Obama prepares to leave office we have close to a $ 23 trillion dollar deficit. Obama's foreign policy was a disaster and China is exerting its new aggression in the Pacific and he does nothing. Russia dominates Syria, Iran is now being recognized, and new high paying jobs in the Us are non existent. President Obama all speeches aside that left Reporters legs shaking with enthusiasm has led to a lower quality of life for African Americans. Anyone go to jail for all of that bank fraud? At least he is cute.
2
Donald Trump is an idiot, but he definitely wasn't the chosen stool pigeon. Your theory is bust.
Go Hillary
Go Hillary
2
First line of my comment is incorrect. McKesson is being paid $165,000 annually as deputy human capital director of Baltimore City Schools, not $65,000. Just started last week at age 31. Interesting
7
There IS a connection as there was the last time pro justice sentiments were gaining ground and officers were klled by a disgruntled black vet.
" Ja’Mal Green, another activist, said the killings were, in their own grisly way, a powerful wake-up call."
And here is what Mr. Green posted on his Facebook page following the killings of the Dallas Officers: "I admire the person who did this...Because dying for this is what it is going to take for things to change. The people should've protected him. I'm sorry, but this is what will open eyes and ears to what we want in this country. I'm not promoting it but I'm not dennouncing it either."
That, folks, is a Black Lives Matter leader. Any reason the writers of this story didn't see fit to include this in their story (they are paid to research who they talk to, are they not?)
And here is what Mr. Green posted on his Facebook page following the killings of the Dallas Officers: "I admire the person who did this...Because dying for this is what it is going to take for things to change. The people should've protected him. I'm sorry, but this is what will open eyes and ears to what we want in this country. I'm not promoting it but I'm not dennouncing it either."
That, folks, is a Black Lives Matter leader. Any reason the writers of this story didn't see fit to include this in their story (they are paid to research who they talk to, are they not?)
22
Not included because the New York Times doesn't want to be truthful about them.
9
How telling. An entire article about BLM's response to the murder of 5 police officers...
...without even reporting on the elephant in the room...
That BLM made no official condemnation of the murders.
Instead we are told how it's a PR nightmare for BLM, how they are 'scrambling to distance themselves from it.'
By not condemning the murders BLM sided with Micah Johnson. That has consequences much worse that 'scrambling to distance'. It calls into question the legality of the organization.
...without even reporting on the elephant in the room...
That BLM made no official condemnation of the murders.
Instead we are told how it's a PR nightmare for BLM, how they are 'scrambling to distance themselves from it.'
By not condemning the murders BLM sided with Micah Johnson. That has consequences much worse that 'scrambling to distance'. It calls into question the legality of the organization.
21
In a country of 330 million people, with millions of annual police/civilian interactions, fatal mistakes by police will be made. Each is a tragedy. Yet the number of unwarranted police killings is a tiny fraction of violent deaths in urban America. Ordinary, daily, urban crime kills thousands of young men, women, children, elderly, shop keepers, dog walkers, commuters, gays, blacks, whites, asians, Hispanics and on and on. But that's always a "different" conversation.
8
Not necessarily, as I'm sure you knew, when you posted this comment. Those other deaths are part of the greater gun and violence debate. BLM is a response to centuries of inequality and abuse of African Americans, something that cannot be said for the members of those other groups.. You knew that, too.
2
We need to quit being divided don't you all get it because right now the oligarchy in America govt is having a field day while we fight among ourselves. I am sick of the division in America. It is like the old saying United We stand, divided we fall. It is like this folks you wonder why the US govt is laughing at everyone look around you. You all are fighting among each other and can't even realize the common enemy which is the outrageous US govt.
3
Michah Johnson is the result, not the symptom, and not the cause, of all the violence that has happened recently.
This country needs a serious discussion/dialogue with police, politicians, and minority communities to stop this madness.
This country needs a serious discussion/dialogue with police, politicians, and minority communities to stop this madness.
1
Black Lives Matter has nothing to do with the killing of the cops by a lunatic. Conflating the 2 is ridiculous, bordering on criminal.
2
By a black lunatic, intent on killing whites, who embraced black extremist groups. Yup, no connection there, folks. Just forget "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon!" and we'll return to the Times' official narrative after this short break for station identification.
7
Is that the new narrative? That he's a lunatic?
1
Weren't those who chanted hate & violence against cops a fringe denounced by the group?
Do you blame Sanders or Clinton for the violence from some of their supporters at Trump rallies?
As far as I'm concerned, anyone advocating violence against cops or anyone else should be immediately arrested and locked up.
Do you blame Sanders or Clinton for the violence from some of their supporters at Trump rallies?
As far as I'm concerned, anyone advocating violence against cops or anyone else should be immediately arrested and locked up.
2
50% of those killed by police are white.
Oddly, I feel no anger towards the police simply because I am white as well.
There's obviously more to the story here ---- BLM would be better served by putting the real issues on the table, instead of highlighting killings.
Oddly, I feel no anger towards the police simply because I am white as well.
There's obviously more to the story here ---- BLM would be better served by putting the real issues on the table, instead of highlighting killings.
8
The sniper attack in Dallas was the act of a madman armed with military style weapons. Weapons that he practised with in his mother's backyard and was trained to use while serving in the U.S. Army. His despicable mass shooting of Dallas policemen is a tragic event to be sure, but no less so than the senseless mass shootings of civilians across our country, including children at the Sandy Hook elementary school in Newton, Conneticut. Or the police homicides in Minnesota and Louisiana, an all too frequent occurrence. The overriding issue is gun violence, with race having little to do with it. Ill trained cops kill people of all races, ethnicities and creeds. We need comprehensive reform to keep guns out of the hands of people who would use them to kill innocent people, period. It is most unfortunate that this latest round of killings -- in Falcon Heights, Baton Rouge and Dallas -- is being viewed through the distorted lens of race and that some in the news media are scapegoating BLM supporters for the act of a madman in Dallas. That said, "new" Black Panthers -- a crazy fringe group --are attempting to stir up hatred against law abiding people and should be incarcerated. President Obama is pitch perfect on these issues. The media frenzy is not helping but cooler heads must and will prevail.
3
Police officers kill far more unarmed white individuals than they do black individuals, and in total only around 90 unarmed individuals who were not erratically behaving drug addicts were shot (see Wash Post article on the facts of police shootings). Black Lives Matter do themselves a disservice in obscuring the underlying problem of an unfairly administered criminal justice system by making the killing of black men by police the face of their movement.
9
Do you really believe these people think past their own hype
4
I have to confess, I am getting very frustrated by the BLM movement.
To create change, you need specific goals that everyone works towards. For many people in the BLM movement, it is little more than a way to publicly vent. That does nothing but stir anger and resentment without offering a practical way to make things better.
"We want the killing to stop!" Yeah. Great. How? What should people do? What laws should be passed?" What policies should be adopted?
Every BLM group should sign on to a short list of positive, practical changes that could be made. The message should be "This tragedy could have been avoided if . . ."
The first step ought to be a national registry of police shootings. This doesn't solve the problem, anymore than passing the Voting Rights Act solved the problem. But we need to start solving the problem instead of just being outraged by it.
To create change, you need specific goals that everyone works towards. For many people in the BLM movement, it is little more than a way to publicly vent. That does nothing but stir anger and resentment without offering a practical way to make things better.
"We want the killing to stop!" Yeah. Great. How? What should people do? What laws should be passed?" What policies should be adopted?
Every BLM group should sign on to a short list of positive, practical changes that could be made. The message should be "This tragedy could have been avoided if . . ."
The first step ought to be a national registry of police shootings. This doesn't solve the problem, anymore than passing the Voting Rights Act solved the problem. But we need to start solving the problem instead of just being outraged by it.
6
In an interview given in early 2008, presidential candidate Barack Obama is said to have infuriated former President Bill Clinton when Obama explained that, if elected, he didn't want to be merely a custodial president...he wanted to be a transformational one, and cited Ronald Reagan as an example. Congratulations, Mr. President.
You've certainly transformed race relations in the United States, if nothing else...we have regressed to a level of anger, hostility, civil unrest and violence unseen since the mid-1960s. In fact, things may get worse before they get better considering the divisive path you've put the nation on...possibly a lot worse.
Unfortunately Mr. President, the truth is that you've proven to be no Ronald Reagan...nor even a Bill Clinton, for that matter.
You've certainly transformed race relations in the United States, if nothing else...we have regressed to a level of anger, hostility, civil unrest and violence unseen since the mid-1960s. In fact, things may get worse before they get better considering the divisive path you've put the nation on...possibly a lot worse.
Unfortunately Mr. President, the truth is that you've proven to be no Ronald Reagan...nor even a Bill Clinton, for that matter.
12
While Black Lives Matter protestors were rioting last night in St. Paul, reporters were unraveling what really happened in the Philando Castile shooting. Fox News 9 of Minnesota reporting Saturday night that Officer Jeronimo Yanez pulled over Castile not because of a broken taillight, but because the car matched the description of a car caught on videotape during an armed robbery. Reporter Matt Finn said the station has listened to police scanner audio that seems to be authentic in which Yanez told the dispatcher before the shooting that he was pulling Castile over because his car matched the car on the armed robbery videotape. Finn says Castile’s car does appear to match the car in the armed robbery video. The reporter also said freeze frames of the video made by the girlfriend appears to show Castile has the gun in his lap, not in his pocket as the girlfriend claims. The officer’s lawyer, meanwhile, says the stop had nothing to do with a broken taillight, that the gun was visible, and that Castile and his girlfriend disobeyed the officer’s order not to move.
13
The media is accessory to the Dallas PD murders. They promote these stories in a biased way in order to hopefully generate voter turnout by blacks for their Democrat candidates. How oblivious are they to not think this would be the result. It already was occurring but perhaps they believed there was an acceptable loss of police lives in order to keep political control.
7
George Zimmerman and Michael Brown are bad examples for BLM to use.
Zimmerman was not a police officer and disobeyed the direct lawful order of the police dispatcher which in spirt said, wait for the police.
Michael Brown of Ferguson Missouri was wanted for a robbery.
If BLM wants to gain traction they should use the examples of Walter Scott of North Charleston South Carolina and Laquan McDonald of Chicago Ill.
Alton Sterling and Philando Castile were armed black men.
Zimmerman was not a police officer and disobeyed the direct lawful order of the police dispatcher which in spirt said, wait for the police.
Michael Brown of Ferguson Missouri was wanted for a robbery.
If BLM wants to gain traction they should use the examples of Walter Scott of North Charleston South Carolina and Laquan McDonald of Chicago Ill.
Alton Sterling and Philando Castile were armed black men.
4
The police officer in the Walter Scott probably won't be convicted, Witness and video evidence show that the officer chased and caught Scott, but that Scott violently resisted arrest, took away his Taser and fled. The office had cause to believe Scott was dangerous. Police officers can shoot fleeing men if they think they are dangerous.
2
Correction: Black Lives Matter had ground, but was ignored by the mainstream media. Until somebody got killed. Now, to the media, including the NYT, it's relevant again.
Both BLM and their detractors have chosen to define their causes using two incidents that to my mind are terrible cases-in-point.
On one hand, BLM has made much of the Minnesota shooting. It was awful, and heartbreaking to watch play out in real time. But as a perfect case to represent police mistreatment of African-Americans? Hardly. Firstly, my understanding is this police department hasn't had an officer-initiated shooting for decades. Secondly, This is not like the Baton Rouge fiasco, in which a man is on the ground, helpless, in police custody, and shot point blank by a bully cop. This is a situation in which an officer, made aware of potential danger, wildly overreacted. As the video opens we can see the officer distraught and hyperventilating. He seems almost as horrified by what has transpired as the poor family who witnessed it. This is a tragedy we're watching, not a brutal murder.
Then in Dallas, we have a disgraced former soldier, singlehandedly deciding to murder police officers. He had no ties to the BLM. The protest during which he opened fire actually endangered the lives of BLM demonstrators, who fled the scene in terror. During the protest he ruined, in fact, many of the demonstrators were said to have been posing warmly for pictures with police. This sad, mentally disturbed product of our military system is not some kind of poster child for the peaceful BLM movement.
Pick the wrong symbols and you discredit your arguments. We all need to pause & reflect.
On one hand, BLM has made much of the Minnesota shooting. It was awful, and heartbreaking to watch play out in real time. But as a perfect case to represent police mistreatment of African-Americans? Hardly. Firstly, my understanding is this police department hasn't had an officer-initiated shooting for decades. Secondly, This is not like the Baton Rouge fiasco, in which a man is on the ground, helpless, in police custody, and shot point blank by a bully cop. This is a situation in which an officer, made aware of potential danger, wildly overreacted. As the video opens we can see the officer distraught and hyperventilating. He seems almost as horrified by what has transpired as the poor family who witnessed it. This is a tragedy we're watching, not a brutal murder.
Then in Dallas, we have a disgraced former soldier, singlehandedly deciding to murder police officers. He had no ties to the BLM. The protest during which he opened fire actually endangered the lives of BLM demonstrators, who fled the scene in terror. During the protest he ruined, in fact, many of the demonstrators were said to have been posing warmly for pictures with police. This sad, mentally disturbed product of our military system is not some kind of poster child for the peaceful BLM movement.
Pick the wrong symbols and you discredit your arguments. We all need to pause & reflect.
3
Is it true that Philando Castille robbed a store a few days before being pulled over? Is it also true that he did NOT have a right to carry permit for his weapon? NYT, please report.
9
Both untrue and debunked.
He was not WANTED for armed robbery.
http://www.snopes.com/philando-castile-was-not-wanted-for-armed-robbery/
There is no reason to disbelieve he did not have a gun permit. State law does not release this information, however.
http://www.startribune.com/philando-castile-had-permit-to-carry-gun/3860...
He was not WANTED for armed robbery.
http://www.snopes.com/philando-castile-was-not-wanted-for-armed-robbery/
There is no reason to disbelieve he did not have a gun permit. State law does not release this information, however.
http://www.startribune.com/philando-castile-had-permit-to-carry-gun/3860...
I found the statement made by Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick to be particularly egregious and emblematic of the problem:
"In Texas, several state officials, including Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, lashed out at the group (BLM)....., directly linking its tone and tactics to the killings. .. he accused the movement of creating the conditions for what happened. “I do blame former Black Lives Matter protests,” he said.
“This has to stop,” Mr. Patrick said, adding of the police officers, “These are real people.”
We are all real people, Mr. Patrick.
"In Texas, several state officials, including Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, lashed out at the group (BLM)....., directly linking its tone and tactics to the killings. .. he accused the movement of creating the conditions for what happened. “I do blame former Black Lives Matter protests,” he said.
“This has to stop,” Mr. Patrick said, adding of the police officers, “These are real people.”
We are all real people, Mr. Patrick.
1
I saw the quote from a member of BLM. “It suddenly became about blame,” he said. “People wanted to link it (cop killings) to the protesters no matter what.” But isn't this what BLM is doing to law enforcement, painting all cops as bad? When in reality and statistically there are a few bad apples in the Police community in relationship to the numbers of police that exist? BLM and the medias approach to all of this is the single most inflammatory aspect of why a "lone" gunman killed 5 cops. BLM and the Media have to take a big hit on this one they have to know they inspired the sniper in Dallas.
6
Certain people seem bent on drawing lines in America -- lines that divide people into us and them; lines that create separation, line that promote fear and strife. Might it be better if we learn to draw more circles -- circles of inclusion, circles that support the police who protect us as well as support people who feel they've been mistreated by police. The issues are not mutually exclusive. It's time for people in our country to be neighborly to one another, and show mercy rather than judge or blame. We are better than the violence and anger and hatred that we've seen.
5
if white demonstrators are allowed to protest on the steps of of the capitol of the state of Texas by carrying semiautomatic weapons in support of their supposed second amendment "rights" while the Texas state legislature vigorously promotes the public display of such weapons, surely those who who advocate and engage in that behavior are far more responsible for anyone else carrying and using weapons than are the participants in Black Lives Matter. Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick is an utter hypocrite. Not surprisingly, he is a Christian dominionist as well. That is far more scary than anyone who reminds white folks that black lives matter.
The very absurdity of open carry was clearly illustrated in Dallas, where some protesters carried weapons in a show of protest too. How could the police or anyone else possibly tell who was dangerous or actually at fault and who was not? It is remarkable, and very fortunate, that the police were able to do so. But clearly there are a lot of second amendment fanatics out there who wish that they could not.
Open carry laws make mass shootings even more dangerous:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/07/open-carry-gun-laws-mass-sho...
The very absurdity of open carry was clearly illustrated in Dallas, where some protesters carried weapons in a show of protest too. How could the police or anyone else possibly tell who was dangerous or actually at fault and who was not? It is remarkable, and very fortunate, that the police were able to do so. But clearly there are a lot of second amendment fanatics out there who wish that they could not.
Open carry laws make mass shootings even more dangerous:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/07/open-carry-gun-laws-mass-sho...
1
The sniper was killed for openly carrying a weapon. The New Black Panther Party frequently appears armed with rifles and shots guns at demonstrations in Texas cities. They are general ignored.
6
I have despaired of America solving the underlying causes of the police shootings in our lifetime. Maybe our kids will see progress.
What happened in Minnesota appears to be a tragic accident -- one which involved neither criminality nor racism on the part of the cop. Its underlying causes are the tidal flood of guns in our communities and the extent to which black men of a certain age use these guns to settle disputes and/or commit felonies. These are not racist stereotypes: they are matters of record and statistics. A cop going into the situation that resulted in the Minnesota shooting is hard wired to be on red alert when he approaches a black man who has a gun -- and this black man had a gun, there is no dispute about this. He is going to shoot first and ask questions later because the fundamental mission of every cop in America when setting out for work is to come home at the end of his or her shift.
Is this right? Is this just? Of course not. But neither is it necessarily racist. It stems from factors -- the prevalence of guns and how they are used on the streets -- that the cops did not create and which they increasingly cannot control.
What happened in Minnesota appears to be a tragic accident -- one which involved neither criminality nor racism on the part of the cop. Its underlying causes are the tidal flood of guns in our communities and the extent to which black men of a certain age use these guns to settle disputes and/or commit felonies. These are not racist stereotypes: they are matters of record and statistics. A cop going into the situation that resulted in the Minnesota shooting is hard wired to be on red alert when he approaches a black man who has a gun -- and this black man had a gun, there is no dispute about this. He is going to shoot first and ask questions later because the fundamental mission of every cop in America when setting out for work is to come home at the end of his or her shift.
Is this right? Is this just? Of course not. But neither is it necessarily racist. It stems from factors -- the prevalence of guns and how they are used on the streets -- that the cops did not create and which they increasingly cannot control.
8
Being "hard wired" to react one way to a black man with a licensed gun and another way to a white man is the VERY DEFINITION of systemic racism.
It's a reality that derives from facts on the ground -- from the frequency with which guns are used in crimes by black men of a certain age (18 to 35). This reality is not a racist invention. It is what's going on in the streets of America. It's why cops react the way they do. The way they react is not fair. It's not just. And it's not the way it should be. But this reaction has more to do with wanting to get home to tuck the kids in than racist hatred.
6
Some people look for just about any excuse to invalidate any movement for positive social change in America, especially if black people are the main force behind it. I'm sure we saw headlines like this during the union struggles of the 1930s, and I remember them myself during the Civil Rights Movement, the movement against the Vietnam War and during protests against our Middle Eastern wars. The people claiming the acts invalidate the movement are never on the side of the movement to begin with, and find it difficult to get much traction confronting the goals of the movement itself.
3
good point
Black Jobs Matter. Until more young black men are better educated and able to find jobs nothing will improve. I wish the administration had done a better job in moving us towards this goal.
8
Harvard economist, George Jesus Borjas, has found that the rate of Black employment has decreased as the number of illegal immigrants has increased. The reality is that illegal immigrants are filling jobs that Blacks would have otherwise had.
1
I'm always mystified as to why, when a Police officer is killed in "the line of duty", every politician jumps up and tells everyone to "pray for them and their families"; but when an innocent Black civilian is killed in "the line of driving", no such suggestions are issued.
I'm not sure if this is because our politicians don't really think that there is any such thing as an innocent Black person, or because the pols think that no member of the race that invented "Soul Music", has a soul to pray for.
In any case, our politicians - the people who solve no problems and then go on vacation - are demonstrating racism in its most virulent form; one set of knee jerk responses for White people, and another for Black people.
Not re-electing 95% of our incumbents would be a step toward solving all of this nations growing problems. In the meantime, let's concentrate on evaluating everyone we meet as a unique individual - that should be "job number one" for every American; and yes, that even includes politicians, which is why I said "95%".
I'm not sure if this is because our politicians don't really think that there is any such thing as an innocent Black person, or because the pols think that no member of the race that invented "Soul Music", has a soul to pray for.
In any case, our politicians - the people who solve no problems and then go on vacation - are demonstrating racism in its most virulent form; one set of knee jerk responses for White people, and another for Black people.
Not re-electing 95% of our incumbents would be a step toward solving all of this nations growing problems. In the meantime, let's concentrate on evaluating everyone we meet as a unique individual - that should be "job number one" for every American; and yes, that even includes politicians, which is why I said "95%".
4
The "blue wall of silence" in which some police protect their fellow employees over the citizens they're sworn to protect and the pressure on all cops to fall in line is despicable. Citizen outrage is just an attempt to police the police.
BLM is doing fine. They just need to bone up on history and not behave like self centred politicians. Do not jump at every microphone. The cause is just. In spite of all the comparisons with MLK remember they murdered him too. Recall those riots? Remember Hampton in Chicago? He was killed while sleeping. Cops did it to this 21 yr old Panther. Press on. Unlike those whom have admitted killing Patrice Lumumba, you have a cause. Carry on! There will be naysayers. Gandhi had a few.
1
Hold on. What does Black Lives Matter, which is essentially a civil rights organization have to due with an obviously crazed gunman who was not affiliated with or sanctioned by the organization? The notion that this horrendous act by this young man should taint the efforts of Black Lives Matter is ludicrous and diversionary from the real issues of systemic, institutionalized racism in this country.
2
The BLM movement has blown occasional but tragic police shootings of blacks well out of proportion. That is not to belittle each horrific act nor to suggest that police should not be prosecuted for unwarranted shootings. Having said that, BLM is demonizing the entire hard working national police force and that is absolutely wrong and disgusting. BLM may quickly become its worst enemy. As it engages in more nd more hyperbole about the extent of unjustified police shootings, it will amp up its most radical members to retaliate. By doing so, it should lose moderate supporters who begin to see BLM for what it is-- largely a sham.
7
The Dallas police killer is obviously not representative of peaceful protestors and it is commendable that their movement has been peaceful. However, BLM should have a two-prong approach: to continue to seek policy change but also to reach out to police officers. The organization has to send a message to the good officers that they appreciate they are carrying out their jobs in an upstanding manner and by the book. I have heard BLM activists state this during media interviews, but seldom. It has to be said loudly, clearly, and more often because if they neglect to build bridges, it impedes the change they seek.
2
The police in general need to be reformed. BLM thinks that only Black men are hurt by police violence and all police violence is racism. However, the police are violent and disrespectful to many Americans of all races, and especially poor people. BLM needs to stop thinking so one dimensionally. All Americans do.
1
I have been in a case of trouble and need for help, and both black and white police officers were involved, professional and helpful. Most of these people, men and women, are there for us. And if you want stereotypes and cruelty based on it to end, you need to do your own part. If you were to be attacked tonight by home invaders, who would come to help you, knowing that they would do their best even at their own risk for you?
5
Among the sirens of 'black on black crime', entreats to 'obey the officer', calls for 'black people to do better' it's clear there's a litany of uninformed opinions on what Black Lives Matter represents. A simple trip to their website's 'About' page (http://blacklivesmatter.com/about/) could clear that up:
"When we say Black Lives Matter, we are broadening the conversation around state violence to include all of the ways in which Black people are intentionally left powerless at the hands of the state. We are talking about the ways in which Black lives are deprived of our basic human rights and dignity."
Nowhere there does BLM advocate killing police, subjugating whites or condoning black on black crime. It's easy to make up a narrative based on hearsay and racial predispositions. It's even easier to Google something and research it, something a lot of the commenters here clearly don't do.
"When we say Black Lives Matter, we are broadening the conversation around state violence to include all of the ways in which Black people are intentionally left powerless at the hands of the state. We are talking about the ways in which Black lives are deprived of our basic human rights and dignity."
Nowhere there does BLM advocate killing police, subjugating whites or condoning black on black crime. It's easy to make up a narrative based on hearsay and racial predispositions. It's even easier to Google something and research it, something a lot of the commenters here clearly don't do.
1
When a movement contains those who chant for the death of the police and then police officers are killed, it certainly is a pr setback, but a logical consequence of such rhetoric. The anti-abortion enthusiasts have discovered this same effect in the past. Threatening to kill people, or calling for their death does not help your cause with the larger public.
9
What seems to be lost in the reactions to this sad event and even in this article is that it is largely due to the Black Lives Matter movement that we are having this conversation about police reforms at all..
Police brutality and unchecked authoritarianism is something that ALL Americans should be concerned about. That the upholding of HUMAN RIGHTS should be applied to all. Just because it doesn't affect our own community, doesn't mean we should not believe it doesn't exist.
The Black Lives Matter movement was instrumental in pressuring the Department of Justice to conduct a thorough investigation into the practices of the police and judicial system in Ferguson. What did the DOJ find? Rampant institutional racism. Where were the protests when this data was released to the general public? There were none outside of BLM and its supporters. No conservatives had anything to say about it.
BLM was also instrumental in the recent report on the Chicago Police Department practices. What was found? A pattern of unchecked institutional racism.
Reading the comments there are so many hyper critical voices about the BLM, but I wonder where are these voices in relation to these recent governmental findings?
Somehow, the real work that activists are doing to shed light on issues that affect us all, putting their lives on the line, is overlooked.
Ferguson and Chicago are overlooked.
Why is it that we are hyper critical of our fellow citizens and not our power structures?
Police brutality and unchecked authoritarianism is something that ALL Americans should be concerned about. That the upholding of HUMAN RIGHTS should be applied to all. Just because it doesn't affect our own community, doesn't mean we should not believe it doesn't exist.
The Black Lives Matter movement was instrumental in pressuring the Department of Justice to conduct a thorough investigation into the practices of the police and judicial system in Ferguson. What did the DOJ find? Rampant institutional racism. Where were the protests when this data was released to the general public? There were none outside of BLM and its supporters. No conservatives had anything to say about it.
BLM was also instrumental in the recent report on the Chicago Police Department practices. What was found? A pattern of unchecked institutional racism.
Reading the comments there are so many hyper critical voices about the BLM, but I wonder where are these voices in relation to these recent governmental findings?
Somehow, the real work that activists are doing to shed light on issues that affect us all, putting their lives on the line, is overlooked.
Ferguson and Chicago are overlooked.
Why is it that we are hyper critical of our fellow citizens and not our power structures?
1
As I white woman I watched the videos of the shooting by police of two black men. I noticed the restained behavior of the videographers who may be tramatized by the experience. I was not at all surprised by the sniper attack on the police and did not associate it with the Black Lives Matter movement. I feel a,deep and profound sorrow and shame that we have done this to ourselves. I appreciate the intent of Black Lives Matter, and believe that ALL live matter. The problem here is a power differencial between the black community members and the powers that be represented by the police (obviously some police are black, so they could be subject to police harassment when not in uniform. ) This is the continuation of historic and systematic racism in our country and needs to stop as the perpetuation of this is hypocritical to everything we say we stand for--live, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are not possible if you are targeted as a second class citezen as our fellow Americans of color are. This harms each of us. As we head to the polls this November it is vital to chose a candidate that has the hope of bringing us together. And, all young Americans need to vote as elections now will impact their future the most.
1
In my humble opinion the basic concept of BLM is fundamentally racist.
24
The media including the NY Times is not helping things through their over-simplified reporting. The news is reported as Whites vs Blacks. See many of the political cartoons and talking heads (all of whom are black or white) on CNN, Fox and MSNBC as evidence.
The officers in LA and MN who killed the black victims were both Latino and yet this is not discussed or highlighted anywhere!
I have heard no one from BLM say "all of society is against us including Latinos" or say "we have a problem with police shootings by police of all racial backgrounds." Why? Because the media plays these events up as Whites vs Blacks.
By not highlighting the complex racial fabric and issues of our diverse nation, the NYT and other media stoke and race-bait White vs Black animosity that is not that simple.
White people and black people are not pit bulls in a fighting arena for the media to cheer on.
Just report the facts. All the facts.
The officers in LA and MN who killed the black victims were both Latino and yet this is not discussed or highlighted anywhere!
I have heard no one from BLM say "all of society is against us including Latinos" or say "we have a problem with police shootings by police of all racial backgrounds." Why? Because the media plays these events up as Whites vs Blacks.
By not highlighting the complex racial fabric and issues of our diverse nation, the NYT and other media stoke and race-bait White vs Black animosity that is not that simple.
White people and black people are not pit bulls in a fighting arena for the media to cheer on.
Just report the facts. All the facts.
15
How about All Lives Matter gun control movement ,America? With the proliferation of weapons throughout the population , how can the police, or their victims have sensible ways of dealing with each other. Restrictions in the use of weapons by police and the general population is the problem to address.
4
This police shooting in Dallas has really brought out the racists. It was sad and typical that the racist Lt. Gov of Texas, Dan Patrick, blamed the victims of police executions:
"“This has to stop,” Mr. Patrick said, adding of the police officers, “These are real people.”
Some one should tell him that Blacks are real people too.
"“This has to stop,” Mr. Patrick said, adding of the police officers, “These are real people.”
Some one should tell him that Blacks are real people too.
1
Blacks did not get killed in Dallas.
2
The central element of the article is, will the police murders in Dallas impact the Black Lives Matter movement? BLM has been critical to raising awareness to what has been so painfully known in the Black community: that the black community has been faced with endemic violence by police. Black men, in particular, are targeted. However, the quoted leaders of BLM fail to understand that in any movement, words matter. Messages need to be strategic and clear. I have been concerned about the extreme rhetoric coming out of BLM, and shared that view by email to them. In my own community there was a riot at an anti-Trump rally, seemingly led by BLM. This riot was not started by the police. In Dallas, several demonstrators were wearing camouflage and openly carrying weapons. Where is the responsibility? Is BLM committed to nonviolence? The problem with BLM, from the sandpoint of movement politics, is that it is amorphous in organization with no clear leadership. The concerns about some of the extreme rhetoric is not "just made up" as Ms. Moore-O'Neal claims. There are historical lessons to be learned and BLM "leaders" (whoever that is) need to learn them. Take responsibility for your words, and the words of your followers. Take responsibility for your actions, and the actions of your followers. Learn fast and mature fast. It is still time for Black Lives Matter to become a mature, lasting movment.
2
I don't believe BLM is promoting violence, but the fact that they couldn't take 1 moment off from protesting and confrontation to recognize the death of 5 human beings that were protecting their own protests is disturbing. Have we ripped so far apart as a society that the angry Americans of all stripes can't just take a step back?!
The last 50 years of the Civil Rights movement has led to HUGE changes in the lives of minorities in the country. We are making progress, and I believe that police are starting to change. By not moving beyond protest and into policy and law, BLM risks being left behind as things do begin to change. They should celebrate the fact that America is waking up, that police have body cameras now in many places they never did before, and that things are changing. Instead, they seem to get angrier and angrier. I mean, there will always be more shootings to be angry about, we need to come together now instead of letting a new video become motivation for more killings. And there will be a new video...there are 350 million people in this country.
The last 50 years of the Civil Rights movement has led to HUGE changes in the lives of minorities in the country. We are making progress, and I believe that police are starting to change. By not moving beyond protest and into policy and law, BLM risks being left behind as things do begin to change. They should celebrate the fact that America is waking up, that police have body cameras now in many places they never did before, and that things are changing. Instead, they seem to get angrier and angrier. I mean, there will always be more shootings to be angry about, we need to come together now instead of letting a new video become motivation for more killings. And there will be a new video...there are 350 million people in this country.
27
Not so sure that things are getting all that much better. I can understand the impatience and anger.
There are three issues and we mustn't confuse them together. The first is Black Lives Matter. It is a meaningful marketing slogan expressing the truth that in our society black lives do not matter. And haven't for centuries. — Second, there is the murder of five police officers by a lone gunman. Police Lives Matter. The lives of the police have ALWAYS mattered. As have white lives mattered. To say All Lives Matter is disingenuous. — Third, there is the idiocy of open-carry. Now is the time to talk about our lax gun laws and how they endanger our law enforcement personnel and our citizens. — Perspective and proportion are needed. The killing of cops is terrible. But it is not a nation-wide problem. Thank goodness it is a rarity. However, we do have a major problem with police killing black people. And that problem is happening in every community in America. — "A report released by the Center for Policing Equity on Friday found that African Americans are more likely than white Americans to be subjected to the use of force by police. University of California at Berkeley Professor Jack Glaser, one of the study’s authors, joins Megan Thompson to talk about growing concerns about racial bias in policing." http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/report-finds-racial-disparities-in-police...
18
Scotty:
Pity you did not link to the actual report.
I am dipping into the actual report. It sure looks to me like the numbers say that whites are MORE likely than blacks to be killed by cops when force is used in arrests for violent offenses.
SEE http://policingequity.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/CPE_SoJ_Race-Arrest... Table 7. Use of Force Rates per 1,000 Arrests for Violent Offenses*, by Severity and Citizen Race
Pity you did not link to the actual report.
I am dipping into the actual report. It sure looks to me like the numbers say that whites are MORE likely than blacks to be killed by cops when force is used in arrests for violent offenses.
SEE http://policingequity.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/CPE_SoJ_Race-Arrest... Table 7. Use of Force Rates per 1,000 Arrests for Violent Offenses*, by Severity and Citizen Race
5
Several members of the media, police, and government authorities are referring to "Black Lives Matter" as a terrorist organization "that must be destroyed." Can't wait to see how that works out.
2
Surprised that a "Johnson" did not happen sooner, BLM had to figure that at some point violence would beget violence. It started with their refusal to accept that "all lives" matter.
If BLM thinks that just being black gets your profiled by the Police they're wrong, try putting a Grateful Dead "Steal Your Face" sticker on your car in the 80's & 90's and record what happened. (See Adam Katz, Meadowlands, NJ, 1989)
Police corruption and brutality has a long and documented history in our Country and it's a shame that BLM never found the need for inclusiveness before Johnson picked up an AR-15 and went on his morbid mission.
We have all suffered under an oppressive Police State where their friends, family, and the connected get one kind of treatment and the rest of us are held "completely and totally accountable" for every mistake we make, whether its a speeding ticket or something more serious.
Don't believe me? in 1999 I traded the Steal Your Face for VF Plates (Volunteer Fireman) and never got another ticket.
How many cops and their families have to deal with abusive car insurance rates for phony tickets written within a quota system just for starters?
If BLM thinks that just being black gets your profiled by the Police they're wrong, try putting a Grateful Dead "Steal Your Face" sticker on your car in the 80's & 90's and record what happened. (See Adam Katz, Meadowlands, NJ, 1989)
Police corruption and brutality has a long and documented history in our Country and it's a shame that BLM never found the need for inclusiveness before Johnson picked up an AR-15 and went on his morbid mission.
We have all suffered under an oppressive Police State where their friends, family, and the connected get one kind of treatment and the rest of us are held "completely and totally accountable" for every mistake we make, whether its a speeding ticket or something more serious.
Don't believe me? in 1999 I traded the Steal Your Face for VF Plates (Volunteer Fireman) and never got another ticket.
How many cops and their families have to deal with abusive car insurance rates for phony tickets written within a quota system just for starters?
6
Same experience in the late 90s. Bought an old-style brass Fraternal Order of Police medallion at flea market and put it on my Jeep. After that the only conversations I had with cops was guys wanting to know where I got it (the newer ones are aluminum).
2
" Mr. Patrick acknowledged that the demonstration in Dallas on Thursday night had been peaceful until the gunman struck,"
This has the air of "Aside from that, how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"
This has the air of "Aside from that, how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"
4
The perceptions espoused by the (only) BLM movement are simply inconsistent with reality. Consider the following statistics:
2015 fatal police shootings
* 662 White and Hispanic deaths due to police shootings
* 258 Black deaths due to police shootings
Clearly the perception does not reflect reality.
2015 fatal police shootings
* 662 White and Hispanic deaths due to police shootings
* 258 Black deaths due to police shootings
Clearly the perception does not reflect reality.
12
Very often those who condemn Black Lives Matter are the very people, who for decades, have done absolutely nothing to alleviate the situation and have done much to exacerbate the problem (for example giuliani) . They are the deniers that there has been a horrific problem. They are the true racists. This is again another example of useless republican blubbering - yes that is all they do - except to get on their knees to the 1%.
1
Open Letter to all in the Black Live Matter Movement ------ I respect your righteous outrage, the positive power and singular importance of your mission. But can you listen to a white, 90 year old activist, who has been for many decades on the front lines protesting, learning, having some effect and witnessing officers going to prison for killing innocent Black Americans? (1) Black Lives Matter Home page opens with: PROSECUIE KILLER COPS. That is inflammatory. It may send a signal to a mentally ill person to translate it to mean Kill, Killer COPS. As Mr. Green is quoted in the article "some people snap." And as the article infers, the good intentions, wonderful spirit, and the ability to educate the public gets muddied up when there is any kind of violence. (2) Your mission statement does not emphasize non-violent, civil disobedience. Even though as individuals and as a group, you protest peacefully that is not enough. For marchers to help insure peaceful protesting you have to proclaim with all your force that you stand for, as a movement, non-violent, civil disobedience; and (3) You have to recruit and station at strategic spots volunteer marshals whose goal is to spot anyone who appears to be on the verge of violence. I will post more on your web site. All good luck and my very best wishes!! Your success will be my success!!
32
doesn't matter how old or experienced you are; you're wrong on this one, abe. you're making the classic substitution error that activists, particularly those with your experience, usually manage to avoid. the problem is not statements like "prosecute killer cops." the problem is killer cops. the motivation for violence, if there is any coherent motivation, is violence (read: killer cops).
Through social media- BLM exposed to the nation what African Americans have been enduring for decades. Fine I got it!
Just like "lone wolf terrorists" we have "lone wolf police officers." Not all Muslims are terrorists, and our political leaders demand that "good Muslims" stand against the radical factions of Islam and literally report suspects to the authorities. Well what's good for the goose- so the saying goes- Should we not demand the same from the men in Blue? The "good cops" know who the bad, loose canons are- they work with them everyday- intervene now and get these killer cops off the streets! Easier said than done now is it..?
Just like "lone wolf terrorists" we have "lone wolf police officers." Not all Muslims are terrorists, and our political leaders demand that "good Muslims" stand against the radical factions of Islam and literally report suspects to the authorities. Well what's good for the goose- so the saying goes- Should we not demand the same from the men in Blue? The "good cops" know who the bad, loose canons are- they work with them everyday- intervene now and get these killer cops off the streets! Easier said than done now is it..?
1
Who trains and funds Black Lives Matters activists?
9
You do. Every April 15th.
4
Just before this incident, newspapers, including The New York Times were explaining how much "Black Lives Matter" was failing. You even had an article about animals being killed labeled "Animal Lives Matter. Now suddenly, the movement was doing well until this incident. It is an escalating movement like the Civil Rights Movements that is demanding that the police stop killing innocent members of our community.
Because the courts keep freeing every policeman who attacks and kills African-Americans, even after they are found guilty by a jury, this group will continue to grow.
Because the courts keep freeing every policeman who attacks and kills African-Americans, even after they are found guilty by a jury, this group will continue to grow.
July 10, 2016
Street politics is not a game - who knows who will use events for ego mania and delusional affiliations - and here what does the New Black Panther fixation for idolizing and misrepresenting - that is under proper investigation by all teams to report the path to suicidal - almost tribal Muslims warring campaigns experienced by the militaristic warring on the Dallas streets -
You never know who's going to show up at events and contaminated or destruct the spirit of law abiding protesters -
Conclude to best organize through the leaders of known and trusted actions to avoid the streets that are problematic to contain those that will poison the well in spirit and goals for reforming agendas........
As well the online ego inflation for the anti heroics needs as well much better surveillance to monitor to making of monsters as in Orlando thug and now the Dallas cop killing lunatic.....
jja Manhattan, N.Y.
Street politics is not a game - who knows who will use events for ego mania and delusional affiliations - and here what does the New Black Panther fixation for idolizing and misrepresenting - that is under proper investigation by all teams to report the path to suicidal - almost tribal Muslims warring campaigns experienced by the militaristic warring on the Dallas streets -
You never know who's going to show up at events and contaminated or destruct the spirit of law abiding protesters -
Conclude to best organize through the leaders of known and trusted actions to avoid the streets that are problematic to contain those that will poison the well in spirit and goals for reforming agendas........
As well the online ego inflation for the anti heroics needs as well much better surveillance to monitor to making of monsters as in Orlando thug and now the Dallas cop killing lunatic.....
jja Manhattan, N.Y.
3
To say that Black Lives Matter is "scrambling to distance itself" from a deranged lone wolf killer is to give credence to racist opportunists who would like us to believe that there was some kind of connection between the two.
Those who decry the actions of a murderer are not "distancing themselves" from his actions; they are taking a stand against such actions.
Did anyone hear of the NRA's having "distanced itself" from the actions of Dylann Roof? On the contrary, NRA leaders blamed the shooting on the pastor who was shot and killed in his own church!
Those who decry the actions of a murderer are not "distancing themselves" from his actions; they are taking a stand against such actions.
Did anyone hear of the NRA's having "distanced itself" from the actions of Dylann Roof? On the contrary, NRA leaders blamed the shooting on the pastor who was shot and killed in his own church!
1
This is not true. BLM embraces extreme rhetoric; so did Johnson. It's entirely appropriate that they have to distance themselves from him.
And: Roof's actions were laid entirely to rest at the door of the right wing and fundamentalist extremists. Those that objected were charged with helping create a "climate" of fear, not the least of which was in the Times itself.
Time to get out and breathe some fresh air.
And: Roof's actions were laid entirely to rest at the door of the right wing and fundamentalist extremists. Those that objected were charged with helping create a "climate" of fear, not the least of which was in the Times itself.
Time to get out and breathe some fresh air.
3
In what area were they gaining ground? The whole concept behind the organization is violence. We are created equal in America and no lives matter more than others. Black Lives Matter has been causing violence from the east to west and south. Black people, like other folks, have to obey and respect the law. Black people do not make the law. They obey it.
Unfortunately we have a president who has created unrest racially. It began in Cambridge MA when the president stated, 'the officer acted stupidly'. What a stupid comment. That officer/policeman followed protocol to the letter and the new president had to eat his words and invite the policeman and the citizen in Cambridge to a get along meeting at the White House.
We need a leader to tell us all to get our act together. We need to unite not matter what religion, color or country of origin. ISIS wants us in this weakened state. Please lets unite the Jews, Christians, All Religions and color to be one people.
Unfortunately we have a president who has created unrest racially. It began in Cambridge MA when the president stated, 'the officer acted stupidly'. What a stupid comment. That officer/policeman followed protocol to the letter and the new president had to eat his words and invite the policeman and the citizen in Cambridge to a get along meeting at the White House.
We need a leader to tell us all to get our act together. We need to unite not matter what religion, color or country of origin. ISIS wants us in this weakened state. Please lets unite the Jews, Christians, All Religions and color to be one people.
4
When the BLM crowd starts to even pretend to be concerned about black on black crime, they might gain an ounce of credibility. As of now, they have none.
17
Zero. Nada. Zip. The problem in their eyes is not that blacks are being murdered, but that a vastly smaller number are being shot, sometimes under highly ambiguous and fraught circumstances (cf. Michael Brown)
by police of a different skin color. They are adroit demagogues.
by police of a different skin color. They are adroit demagogues.
4
Dear black people: please help your fellow black males to stop committing crimes in numbers that are wildly out of proportion to their share of the population and I promise you, you will see a favorable response from law enforcement.
16
@changstien
You do realize that addressing an ENTIRE RACE as:"Dear black people...."
is not only patronizing, but ineffective as well, don't you?
Try again.
You do realize that addressing an ENTIRE RACE as:"Dear black people...."
is not only patronizing, but ineffective as well, don't you?
Try again.
1
Dan Patrick says "these are real people" about the policemen. What about the tens of black people killed in the last few years? Has he ever said anything about those people?
Nothing that's fit to repeat in polite society...
1
"If I am only for myself, what am I?" -- Hillel.
Something timeless for Black Lives Matter to consider.
Something timeless for Black Lives Matter to consider.
8
Poorly trained, barely educated, and overly aggressive police officers abusing, shooting, and killing innocent people will never be right, and has no direct relationship at all the the Black Lives Matter movement, other than they are both two forms of protect. For you to suggest that somehow the violence in Dallas dilutes their message is for you to feel and you alone. I find that Times Editorials make frequent erroneous declarations that are supposed to be some useful social commentary, but instead just come off as disingenuous, out of touch, silly thinking.
2
BLM you are gaining ground! Every movement for increasing the Rights of human beings has its share of detractors. Look at the history of women and children....the white ones in the USA. Read about the organization of workers and the Robber Barons. Any familiar names? At this time People like to forget the many killings carried out by authorities sought to maintain their oppressive regimes. Remember Mandella, Kenyatta, Bustamante, Ghandi and hundreds of others who persisted against odds defined by their death inducing oppressors. The Struggle continues!
1
It is disheartening and saddens me that so many comments here are blatant racism. Americans don't even see it....so sad. Comments like "People on both sides need to chill out" and "disproportionate number of blacks to commit violent crimes and murder"- People do some homework with your minds and hearts open. Educate yourselves without attitude or defense. Look into the hearts of African Americans and put yourselves in their shoes. Read about our modern racist militarized policing, recommend "The New Jim Crow" among other honest resources out there. Then look at your own life and consider if this was your life; if having to "have the talk" to your children about safety- from the police. How would you feel? How respected would you feel?
I am the most defensive people on the planet when it comes to my son. It broke my heart to hear that sweet 4 year old's voice from the back seat trying to reassure her mommy that "I'm here with you". Absolutely tragic.
To all the protesters out there- you are courageous honors- March On and Be Safe!!!
I am the most defensive people on the planet when it comes to my son. It broke my heart to hear that sweet 4 year old's voice from the back seat trying to reassure her mommy that "I'm here with you". Absolutely tragic.
To all the protesters out there- you are courageous honors- March On and Be Safe!!!
24
If you can't accept in good faith a comment like "people on all sides need to chill out" then you are part of the problem.
3
Again, disagreement is labeled racism. When is the left going to realize that they're not able to bully people that way any longer?
5
This is exactly what is wrong about BLM, acting out of emotional reasoning rather than viewing the data and logically processing it. Why is this bad? Essentially you take whatever case the media presents to you and then use it as an epitome of how the world is. Rather, the data shows us that both White and Blacks are being killed. Are African Americans shot disproportionately to their representation in the population? Yes, but it doesn't reach the epidemic levels BLM and the media wants you believe when you factor in racial crime levels and socioeconomic status. The fact is, is that the militarization of the police and police brutality is an issue that affects us all disproportionately compared to other first world nations; on an aside, it is really due to our gun ownership level.
For the record, I am white and when I received my driving license my parents did give me a well remembered talk about how to act with Police: e.g. Follow their commands no matter what, tell them any movements you are going to do, turn off your engine and your music, address them as sir or ma'am, be respectful.
For the record, I am white and when I received my driving license my parents did give me a well remembered talk about how to act with Police: e.g. Follow their commands no matter what, tell them any movements you are going to do, turn off your engine and your music, address them as sir or ma'am, be respectful.
1
Rioting is not a right, what a bunch of stupid kids. Too bad for them. The police need to step up not back it down.
8
"Rioting" is not a right--and specify rioting--but peaceful and public dissent, assembly and marching sure is a right. It's called the 1st Amendment.
Plus a bunch of stupid kids--actually mainly adults in ALL cases--have publicly demonstrated since the founding of this country, in some cases to win
equal rights for non-white racial minorities, rights for workers, women's suffrage, etc. What a bunch of stupid kids.
Plus a bunch of stupid kids--actually mainly adults in ALL cases--have publicly demonstrated since the founding of this country, in some cases to win
equal rights for non-white racial minorities, rights for workers, women's suffrage, etc. What a bunch of stupid kids.
BLM doesn't deserve blame for the actions of a single deranged individual. But BLM as a whole would garner an awful lot more respect if they focused their attention on the much more obvious taker of black lives: other black males. Ignoring that population makes the issue about race, not about "black lives".
10
Reading through this comments section, it is truly sad to see how many neo-Klansmen read the Times. Please return to the Daily Stormer or wherever else you came from with your victim-blaming, denigration of black culture, and blind faith in the holy powers of government such that police executions during traffic stops are always justified because of "suspicion."
2
Again, I urge those who make such broad, nonspecific claims of racism to make their complaint by a reply to the post that offends them. Racism is to be confronted at the source. You don't go outside and pontificate about it instead.
3
Marching against Police brutality is fine, but in itself will not resolve anything than the release of frustration. I would like to see marches about the lack of good paying jobs,inferior schools,and living conditions.These are the underlying problems of Black communities.
13
I am reading "Dark Money: The Hidden History of the Billionaires Behind the Rise of the Radical Right" by Jane Mayer. BML are fighting the wrong enemy and it is not the police.
https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Money-History-Billionaires-Radical/dp/038553...
https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Money-History-Billionaires-Radical/dp/038553...
Micah Johnson shared a home with his mother. Surely she observed the bomb-making equipment, guns and ammo he amassed as well as the "military exercises" he conducted in the backyard and perhaps in the house. See something, say something. Why didn't she? I hope she is being questioned by the police.
9
Well, the times used to really push the cause of Lori Berenson, who did the same thing in a house full of terrorists in Lima, and saw (according to her) nothing! Nothing!
2
Martin Luther King has turned in his grave already at the behavior of this bunch..
When civil rights icon John Lewis himself had to throw out a group of BLM members at Hillary Clinton event for their behavior, disrupting and. carrying on, that speaks for itself.
When civil rights icon John Lewis himself had to throw out a group of BLM members at Hillary Clinton event for their behavior, disrupting and. carrying on, that speaks for itself.
14
BLM lost ground when it was formed to protest a justified police shooting. Witnesses, evidence, police, and a grand jury all agreed: Michael Brown went through a patrol car window, reached for the officer's gun, and was shot inside the vehicle at the driver seat during the struggle. All this after he had robbed a liquor store on camera. BLM should have focused instead on the unjustified police killings that followed Brown. A cause needs righteousness, like it or not, to garner the support of good people. It needs truth to effect real change. Without these, confusion, division, and chaos ensue. BLM cannot distance itself from the Dallas shooter because it did not distance itself from the misguided rhetoric that followed Ferguson. Time for a reset. A movement based on actual truth and justice cannot be stopped or ignored. Will BLM recognize this? I sincerely hope so.
12
I hate it when the NYT say "was" to try to distort history, or the truth. Black men's live still matter, this organization still matters, and I support them more than ever. Note: I am a white, middle class male.
1
What really amazes me is that police-community relations are still seen as a Black and White issue. Despite 70 years of anti-police brutality activism and over 60 urban riots in Latino communities, this history appears to have been forgotten. I sometimes wonder what it would take to expand this conversation beyond Black and White.
2
Why is black hatred and racism given a free pass? BLM has already publicly announced its contempt for white people, and one of their acolytes has taken deadly action on that statement of racist principle. Is the rhetoric of BLM any less responsible for Dallas than the Confederate flag was for Charleston?
23
The Black Lives Matter movement is part of the problem of Black America (and everyone's problem, too), not a solution. Its motto is demonstrate first and think later or not at all. Don't wait for the facts -- take to the streets!
Blocking Interstates, shouting racist and anti-police chants, trashing property, taunting police, blocking access to police stations, and in some cases resorting to bodily violence -- all these epitomize the lack of impulse control(yes, I don't care for the term either) that has so often contributed to the escalation of routine interactions with the police into the loss of too many young black lives.
At least as blameworthy is the liberal establishment that does not have the courage to tell the truth -- that has fabricated the official narrative of how every setback that befalls the black community is caused by "white racism."
When authority figures (e.g., Times columnists) validate their paranoia, and encourage them to see blue-on-black killings as the result of racism or, worse, a conspiracy -- Governor Dayton, hang your head in shame! -- it is little wonder that young blacks get confrontational with cops, with terrible results.
Blocking Interstates, shouting racist and anti-police chants, trashing property, taunting police, blocking access to police stations, and in some cases resorting to bodily violence -- all these epitomize the lack of impulse control(yes, I don't care for the term either) that has so often contributed to the escalation of routine interactions with the police into the loss of too many young black lives.
At least as blameworthy is the liberal establishment that does not have the courage to tell the truth -- that has fabricated the official narrative of how every setback that befalls the black community is caused by "white racism."
When authority figures (e.g., Times columnists) validate their paranoia, and encourage them to see blue-on-black killings as the result of racism or, worse, a conspiracy -- Governor Dayton, hang your head in shame! -- it is little wonder that young blacks get confrontational with cops, with terrible results.
25
MLK understood -even in Memphis the day before he died - that the lack of detailed organization in creating Civil Disobedience would only lead to further frustration, setbacks in justice, and even more violence. (MLK, in his humility, would rather stand down than contribute to an Action that was proven unorganized and nonproductive, despite its best intentions.) BLM, despite ITS best intentions, continues to fumble as it attempts to rebuild these bylaws of Civil Disobedience that were shattered with MLKs murder. BLM, despite ITS best intentions, UNFAIRLY receives blame for events in which it is involved but NOT in control of. ALL Americans are on the brink of a Whirlpool of Mutual Failure, regardless of the color of their skin or the content of their character, suffering the consequences of problems that we've been unable to solve since Memphis.
1
As long as America continues to be heavily armed, we will see whites shooting whites, whites shooting blacks, blacks shooting whites, and blacks shooting blacks. As soon we join the civilized world and stop allowing everyone in America to assemble a private weapons arsenal good for shooting as many fellow human beings as possible, as quickly as possible, people will stop shooting each other. If you own guns, you are the ones who are complicit in these police officers' deaths, not the BLM protestors, for quite legitimately protesting unjustified police killings. Gun owners and users are the ones to blame, not "the rhetoric" of BLM.
27
The shooter himself said that the (only) BLM movement inspired his actions. Then there were the other three attacks on police in Louisiana, Massachusetts, and Abilene, Texas. The over the top rhetoric blaming all police for the actions of a tiny minority is the inevitable cause.
7
Black Lives Matter Was Gaining Ground. Then a Sniper Opened Fire
This can be a good going forward for it drives home:
Black people should not blame white people for what some white people do;
White people can not blame black people for what this one black person did.
This can be a good going forward for it drives home:
Black people should not blame white people for what some white people do;
White people can not blame black people for what this one black person did.
6
For some perspective, it would be good for folks to read James Cone's The Cross and the Lynching Tree. Brutalizing black men has a long history in American.
1
Thanks NYT for putting out a false narrative.
16
Spare me the crocodile tears. You don't get to spend 2 years chanting "What do we want? Dead cops. When do we want them? Now", and then act all surprised when someone take you up on it. The shootings in Dallas are 100% on the heads of the anti-cop Black Lives Matter group.
I'm old enough to remember what our cities were like when they were run by soft on crime Democrats and will not vote for any politician who gives these pro-criminal thugs the time of day. Bill Clinton's speech about BLM a few month's back was spot on. It's a true shame that the Left was so tone deaf to it.
I'm old enough to remember what our cities were like when they were run by soft on crime Democrats and will not vote for any politician who gives these pro-criminal thugs the time of day. Bill Clinton's speech about BLM a few month's back was spot on. It's a true shame that the Left was so tone deaf to it.
26
There is a problem with racism with SOME police officers. There is institutional racism as well. The problem is the global "them" finger being pointed. Essentially the message is "they're all the same" regarding the police. Does that sound familiar? There's a problem, but vilifying the police as a whole is not the answer and foments tragedies such as we've just seen in Dallas. There are people of good will of all colors and many wear a badge. Someone mentioned MLK Jr's point about BLM being in monologue, not in dialogue. This is essentially true. They need to clearly articulate that violence is not the answer in full throat, not in the ponderous way they have with qualifications from people in their leadership that "eventually there come a time when black people will snap". You can't say you're not encouraging violence and in the same breath make a statement like that justifying violence. If you're justifying violence you're encouraging it. You want to get your message across BLM? Try showing some leadership on this issue. If you justify violence, you're just as bad as the rogue cops and corrupt police depts you're protesting.
5
This is the kind of dangerous thinking that led to "the night of the broken windows," when all Jews were blamed when a young Jew murdered a Nazi official. I can understand the tabloids engaged in this kind of thinking, but the Times is supposed to be the voice of reason in a time when one is sorely needed.The Times is also influential. This editorial made the headlines of one of my local papers.
4
Here is a question: why are men of every race so prone to violence?
3
The BLM seems to make under Toad out of cops, when it should focus on addressing some of the pressing issues that keep the blacks in their communities mired in poverty, crime, and substandard living. Unless they are advocating that the blacks be left alone, no matter what they do, the movement is without purpose. I was reading that, in Toronto, the BLM group of that city, halted the PRIDE parade for an hour to demand that the parade will not feature Toronto Police floats.
So, the movement seems to be about muzzling the police and intimidating politicians like Sanders into falling in line. To them, only black lives matter, not all lives matter.
Ironically, the Dallas killer who subscribed to BLM ideology may have also killed any chance the movement will continue to be relevant.
So, the movement seems to be about muzzling the police and intimidating politicians like Sanders into falling in line. To them, only black lives matter, not all lives matter.
Ironically, the Dallas killer who subscribed to BLM ideology may have also killed any chance the movement will continue to be relevant.
6
The "movement" is based on the Michael Brown myth: Hands up, don't shoot.
Chanting a lie is easy: facing reality is hard.
Chanting a lie is easy: facing reality is hard.
5
@sonny
Disagree -- that Dallas-sniper had his OWN ideology.
There is a differnce.
Not ALL Black people want to randomly kill all White policemen
Recognize it.
Disagree -- that Dallas-sniper had his OWN ideology.
There is a differnce.
Not ALL Black people want to randomly kill all White policemen
Recognize it.
1
I blame the rhetoric in the media and politicians for this. One for failing to call out those BLM calling for cops to be killed and for the experts using inflammatory language such as one CNN black debater who said that cops are out there hunting Black people.
Really, "hunting"???
The media needs to stop sensationalizing these incidents and wait till facts are out.
Really, "hunting"???
The media needs to stop sensationalizing these incidents and wait till facts are out.
16
In all of this let's not also lose sight of the fact that the NRA also took a big hit here (the one bright spot to this horrible event). Five "good guys with guns" were killed by "one bad guy with a gun". Puts a big hole in their whole argument.
1
No it doesn't. There are hundreds of thousands of defense gun uses every year. The fact that the national media, including the New York Times, refuses to report any of them doesn't mean they're not happening.
2
Remember that time when a white man shot up a black church in South Carolina, killing 9? And everyone said, "he must've been influenced by the white supremacist rhetoric - this rhetoric must stop."
I don't remember anyone saying that. Because all they said was he was a lone shooter, obviously mentally ill. What's the difference here?
The double standards have to stop. Acknowledge racism exists and resolve to be on the side of justice.
I don't remember anyone saying that. Because all they said was he was a lone shooter, obviously mentally ill. What's the difference here?
The double standards have to stop. Acknowledge racism exists and resolve to be on the side of justice.
4
The difference is that there was not just the Dallas shooter, there were three other attacks on police officers in three other states in the same time frame, all inspired by the (only) BLM movement. Same reason Orlando was different, it was also inspired by a movement.
The South Carolina incident was a true lone wolf with no support group.
The South Carolina incident was a true lone wolf with no support group.
1
"Black Lives Matter was gaining ground"!?
Do you have any empirical evidence at all to back up this headline? I am not saying I agree or disagree, but you've presented no data of any kind for me to know that you're not just making that up.
Do you have any empirical evidence at all to back up this headline? I am not saying I agree or disagree, but you've presented no data of any kind for me to know that you're not just making that up.
14
It is of a kin with "many think", "caused a debate on social media" "caused an outcry on social media" (exactly the same except the word "outcry" means Democrats don't like it), and the ever popular "growing body of opinion".
3
When I attended a Police Lives Matter rally earlier this year, our peaceful march - which included many families with children - was stalked by a Black Lives Matter (BLM) counter march. The BLM mob tried to disrupt our group: they shouted obscenities & attempted to block our way. When we got to the state Capitol, BLM had arrived there first & occupied our intended rally point. We made our way to the other side of the Capitol, but along the way, a line of BLM marchers met us with posters containing more obscene epithets & taunted us. They all had bandanas pulled up bandit-style to hide their faces. Their clear intent was to provoke a reaction from our group: none of us even lingered to look. And of course, this blatant provocation from Black Live Matter never made the evening news - that would have violated the only taboo we have left - telling a politically incorrect truth.
Where has our President been all this time? He should have been calling for peace, order & understand for years. His most recent attempts at leadership have been way too little, way too late. Things are rapidly getting worse in ways that should motivate all men & women of good will do everything they can to reverse this murderous downward spiral of violence & "revenge." Americans prefer to believe that history is over: the future will always be like today, only with more disposable income and a more tempting menu of cafeteria-style social mores. Dream on. I fear the worst is yet to come.
Where has our President been all this time? He should have been calling for peace, order & understand for years. His most recent attempts at leadership have been way too little, way too late. Things are rapidly getting worse in ways that should motivate all men & women of good will do everything they can to reverse this murderous downward spiral of violence & "revenge." Americans prefer to believe that history is over: the future will always be like today, only with more disposable income and a more tempting menu of cafeteria-style social mores. Dream on. I fear the worst is yet to come.
12
I am sorry but I see BLM as part of the problem, as a symbol of mob violence, and a refusal to acknowledge when they are wrong. I simply view them and their actions as those of Hate Group, a black version of the KKK.
They need to be watches carefully because wherever they go, violence and rioting soon follow. I hope police and FBI are keeping an eye on their leaders, some of whom act as if they should be in prison.
They need to be watches carefully because wherever they go, violence and rioting soon follow. I hope police and FBI are keeping an eye on their leaders, some of whom act as if they should be in prison.
18
Just for the record. I see Donald Trump's rallies "as a symbol of mob violence" --
Especially given his racially divisive speech, and the fact thet he has been endorsed by David Duke, a "former" Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan.
Are you honestly going to say that we haven't a race problem here in America???
Especially given his racially divisive speech, and the fact thet he has been endorsed by David Duke, a "former" Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan.
Are you honestly going to say that we haven't a race problem here in America???
2
The title of this article is infuriating. It suggests that the BLM movement will be stopped in its tracks for a horrific incident in which the perpetrator was carrying out its mission. That's like saying Martin Luther King Jr. would have endorse sniping at white police officers after the church bombings, after the lynchings, etc. BLM is not scrambling to distance itself from that sniper, as the authors opine. There is tacit understanding that they in no way endorsed his actions. Now is the time for BLM to continue its mission peacefully without shackles of guilt placed upon it.
3
Micah Johnson is ultimately responsible for his horrible actions. Of course, some are going to use this incident to completely discredit BLM. Some people just don't like to see cops criticized at all. No movement would ever have the perfect message which would be acceptable to them. There is going to be more questionable cop killings of civilains caught on video in the future, and the criticism won't stop.
Many say BLM should focus on black on black crime. Well. where is the movement by the good cops speaking out about how they need to weed out the bad cops? I won't hold my breath.
Many say BLM should focus on black on black crime. Well. where is the movement by the good cops speaking out about how they need to weed out the bad cops? I won't hold my breath.
27
Most of us don't mind the criticism of the cops especially when they deserve it. It is however somewhat irresponsible to call for their deaths which some in the (only) BLM movement have done.
2
When something bad happens, like the cop killings in Dallas, the rhetoric of BLM becomes the issue. That's absurd. The issue is that cops continue to kill black people for no reason. Period.
5
No. The issue is that there are unjustified deaths among many groups. Civilians at a minute rate the hand of police but mostly at the hand of criminals, family, friends; police at the hands of criminals; innocents at the hands of mass shooters. NOTHING, NOTHING justifies what happened in Dallas. NOTHING justifies an unjust death at the hands of cops. NOTHING justifies a death at the hands of criminals, even those from your own community. NOTHING justifies death at the hands of a spousal abuser. NOTHING justifies death in Newtown, San Bernadino, Paris, Istanbul . NOTHING justifies death in Orlando. NOTHING justifies war crimes. And everyone, even cops, are entitled to their day in court.
SORRY. Justice and rights to life apply to all of us--US civilians, air travelers, commuters, students and teachers. And lest we forget, cops. And all are entitled to a dispassionate investigation and, if charged, trial. Military at court Martians. Criminals in the appropriate jurisdiction. Terrorists. Even cops...
SORRY. Justice and rights to life apply to all of us--US civilians, air travelers, commuters, students and teachers. And lest we forget, cops. And all are entitled to a dispassionate investigation and, if charged, trial. Military at court Martians. Criminals in the appropriate jurisdiction. Terrorists. Even cops...
2
I beg to differ with you.There is always a reason for police shootings.So Blacks simply do not get killed for no reason.Some reasons for police shootings are clearly justified.Some ae not.And others could have perhaps been handled in a different manner.In the Sterling case,he resisted the arrest by the officers.Which led to his unfortunate loss of life.When a person resists the police,specially on a call that the subject had threatened another with a firearm-then you are playing with gasoline and fire.The video of Sterling being pumped with rounds was ugly,like all shootings of a human being or for that matter,an animal.But he iniated the physical struggle with the officers.And this was not his first time doing this.At some point he should have known his luck would run out him.
2
Black Lives Don't Matter, not even to black "leaders" like El Paso TX police chief who called them a "radical hate group" who caused the Dallas officers to be murdered. I wonder why the NY Times is not covering this story from El Paso, the city whose university fielded the first all-black starting team in NCAA basketball championship history and the first city in a southern state of desegregate (voluntarily).
http://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/local/el-paso/2016/07/09/mayor-cou...
And Gay Lives Don't Matter either. Dan Patrick, the Lt. Governor of Texas, tweeted his support of the ISIS terrorist who murdered more than 40 young people in Orlando.
And when Donald Trump enters the White House in Jan. 2017, I see him passing out guns and ammunition in white churches and urging white Americans to take back their country from blacks, Mexicans and Muslims.
And yes, Hillary Clinton is such a bumbling incompetent, that I give Trump a 60% probability of winning in November.
http://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/local/el-paso/2016/07/09/mayor-cou...
And Gay Lives Don't Matter either. Dan Patrick, the Lt. Governor of Texas, tweeted his support of the ISIS terrorist who murdered more than 40 young people in Orlando.
And when Donald Trump enters the White House in Jan. 2017, I see him passing out guns and ammunition in white churches and urging white Americans to take back their country from blacks, Mexicans and Muslims.
And yes, Hillary Clinton is such a bumbling incompetent, that I give Trump a 60% probability of winning in November.
5
Donald Trump's measured response demonstrates his strong leadership. We need a uniter, not a divider. Donald Trump will bring back jobs to low income black communities that have been ignored by Democrats for generations. #Trump2016
9
Trump opposes a minimum wage and has called for lower wages for Americans so we "can compete with China". He has promised huge new tax cuts for the rich, including Trump, and we can believe he will make both lower wages for us and lower taxes for him a reality. That's why he is running as a republican. It's what they do.
1
Black lives do matter when they abide by the same laws as everyone else. Truth is often the police is besides in some neighbourhoods like if they were going to downtown Fallujah
In such cases, a black man in a car carrying a firearm and every policeman will start thinking about his kids, his wife, his life... The fact that he shot him in the arm shows he was trying to neutralise not to kill.
The fact that the mans girlfriend was taping it shows she was more interested in TV ratings and social media hype than helping her friend.
Now 5 policemen got killed in Dallas trying to protect a group of people who were protesting police. If the police would not be there a lot more innocent black people would get killed, mostly by their own gangs and "boys in the hood". So before they protest police they should sit for a moment, think and be careful what they wish for. This debate is not balanced nor fair on either side of the fence....
In such cases, a black man in a car carrying a firearm and every policeman will start thinking about his kids, his wife, his life... The fact that he shot him in the arm shows he was trying to neutralise not to kill.
The fact that the mans girlfriend was taping it shows she was more interested in TV ratings and social media hype than helping her friend.
Now 5 policemen got killed in Dallas trying to protect a group of people who were protesting police. If the police would not be there a lot more innocent black people would get killed, mostly by their own gangs and "boys in the hood". So before they protest police they should sit for a moment, think and be careful what they wish for. This debate is not balanced nor fair on either side of the fence....
3
There is an eerie parallel between the Charleston Church Massacre and the Dallas Ambush. The shooters in both incidents were motivated by news media accounts of intraracial homicides. After visiting a website that focused on black-on-white murders, Charleston shooter Dylann Roof wrote in his manifesto that, “There were pages upon pages of these brutal black on white murders. I was in disbelief. How could the news be blowing up the Trayvon Martin case while hundreds of these black on white murders got ignored?” Dallas sniper Micah Xavier Johnson said he was outraged by news media accounts of white-on-black murders, including white cops shooting blacks. The question arises: Does the news media report interracial homicides in such a way as to make white-on-black homicides seem more numerous than black-on-white homicides? The FBI Uniform Crime Report (Expanded Homicide Data Table 6) shows that 446 blacks murdered whites while 187 whites (including Hispanics) murdered blacks in 2014, the most recent year for which data is complete. But many Americans appear to think white Americans are waging a race war against black Americans. Would better balanced and more accurate reporting reduced racial animosity?
5
"Does the news media report interracial homicides in such a way as to make white-on-black homicides seem more numerous than black-on-white homicides? "
The answer to your question is yes -- and no media organization is guiltier than the one we are commenting on right now. The rage that this biased reporting creates in the minds of unbalanced young men is a huge, untold story.
The answer to your question is yes -- and no media organization is guiltier than the one we are commenting on right now. The rage that this biased reporting creates in the minds of unbalanced young men is a huge, untold story.
1
Black Lives Matter isn't going anywhere. In fact it will probably end up stronger. If anyone thinks that one whacko is going to slow the effort to expose how cops treat black men in America you are simply fooling yourself.
I agree with Kcrozier. One black gunman who clearly was disturbed does not speak for the entire group or is the spokesperson for the Black Lives Matter movement. Too many people in mainstream media always want to have a single voice that speaks for black America. Used to be Jesse Jackson. Then Al Sharpton. Now our spokesperson is a killer?
This movement, by any means necessary, is not going anywhere.
I agree with Kcrozier. One black gunman who clearly was disturbed does not speak for the entire group or is the spokesperson for the Black Lives Matter movement. Too many people in mainstream media always want to have a single voice that speaks for black America. Used to be Jesse Jackson. Then Al Sharpton. Now our spokesperson is a killer?
This movement, by any means necessary, is not going anywhere.
If BLM wants to be credible, they have to address the black on black crime. The majority of black lives are taken by other black persons. A 9 year old and his father were shot to death Friday night in San Bernadino by a black man. Where is BLM on this? Where's the demonstrations, the outrage?
Less than one-half of one percent of cops are not good cops. They're not the ones responsible for the vastly greater number of black deaths. Yet, total radio silence from BLM and all the black stars who found their way to Twitter this week. Not one of them voiced outrage over little 9-year old Travon Williams murder.
Less than one-half of one percent of cops are not good cops. They're not the ones responsible for the vastly greater number of black deaths. Yet, total radio silence from BLM and all the black stars who found their way to Twitter this week. Not one of them voiced outrage over little 9-year old Travon Williams murder.
22
The problem I have with BLM is it presupposes that police officers are inherently racist and out to murder black people. Don't under-trained and overzealous cops also kill white motorists and suspects? I know that it happens around here occasionally. BLM supporters that make this a racial issue are the real racists.
17
Black Lives don't Matter if you are committing crimes, riot, destroy your own neighborhood and other's property, guns, drugs, stand up for known thugs like Michael Brown, littering, violent obnoxious rap music noise, etc. Simple, if the authorities tell you to do something, then listen or face the consequences. Arrogance and ignorance doesn't help the cause. Just because you are poor, doesn't give anyone the right to act out crimes or litter or listen to loud obnoxious rap noise. Be a decent person and not a criminal and all will be fine.
12
People don't deserve to die for littering or jaywalking or shoplifting or listening to violent rap music or being rude to cops, etc. But they might find themselves at the wrong end of a police encounter if they physically resist or make a movement towards something the officer fears is a weapon. When they do shoot, cops are trained to aim for body mass and incapitate a threat as quickly as possible. Shooting to wound will possibly leave himself and other members of the public still at risk. If a cop stops you, obey him. Keep your hands in plain sight. Don't mouth off to him. If you have a weapon on you, tell the cop where it is and let him find it. Don't incriminate yourself, but don't be stupid either. There will be time later to file a complaint and get a lawyer to sue the police department back to the Stone Age. No one deserves to die in those encounters, but it's better to stay alive than be right.
1
For those who still buy into the BLM pitch, here's an article from today's WSJ.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myths-of-black-lives-matter-1468087453?m...
Interesting reading, isn't it? Now why couldn't the NYT do some research into this? Or perhaps the editorial board does not want to - these facts don't do anything to deepen the "racial" divide.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myths-of-black-lives-matter-1468087453?m...
Interesting reading, isn't it? Now why couldn't the NYT do some research into this? Or perhaps the editorial board does not want to - these facts don't do anything to deepen the "racial" divide.
10
Login is required to read WSJ articles online
I read that article and I have a lot of respect for WSJ for having the guts to publish that. Those are real empirical statistics, and they don't lie. I feel more than ever than BLM has taken over the narrative so completely that the actual issues are being completely obscured.
3
Those would be facts, and the New York Times is aggressively anti-factual these days. Facts only get in the way of the story.
3
so this is a story basically about what a bunch of racist, speaking with impunity, had to say hiding behind mother twitter's skirts? this is a bogeyman. talk to real people.
5
I really don't feel like persuading those readers of the New York times capable of more than 140 characters at a bite, when I know most of them instinctively feel that BLM is blameless. At the same time, they were part of taking and pocketing political gains, that is the Confederate flag issue, by blaming Dylann Roof on the right. You'll be hearing from us in November. Sorry about not making that history bit this time.
6
Your sneering, sweeping, arrogant and ignorant condemnation is exactly what is fueling a terrible and unnecessary division in this country.
2
To those asking "why does one gunman speak" ... listen to what the BLM protesters are saying. Listen to what the cops are saying. It's not the 99%; it's the one who's out to kill you. That's the problem on both sides. Look at the number of cops who have been attacked by an armed black man. The numbers are skewed by bullet proof vests.
7
What is Black Lives Matter?
Who speaks for Black Lives Matter?
Three black women named Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors and Opal Tometi founded the Black Lives Matter movement.
What have and do they say about all of these events?
Who speaks for Black Lives Matter?
Three black women named Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors and Opal Tometi founded the Black Lives Matter movement.
What have and do they say about all of these events?
4
Here is what they said, which you can see at BlacklLivesMatter.com:
'This is a tragedy–both for those who have been impacted by yesterday’s attack and for our democracy. There are some who would use these events to stifle a movement for change and quicken the demise of a vibrant discourse on the human rights of Black Americans. We should reject all of this.
Black activists have raised the call for an end to violence, not an escalation of it. Yesterday’s attack was the result of the actions of a lone gunman. To assign the actions of one person to an entire movement is dangerous and irresponsible. We continue our efforts to bring about a better world for all of us."
'This is a tragedy–both for those who have been impacted by yesterday’s attack and for our democracy. There are some who would use these events to stifle a movement for change and quicken the demise of a vibrant discourse on the human rights of Black Americans. We should reject all of this.
Black activists have raised the call for an end to violence, not an escalation of it. Yesterday’s attack was the result of the actions of a lone gunman. To assign the actions of one person to an entire movement is dangerous and irresponsible. We continue our efforts to bring about a better world for all of us."
3
Good questions.
How do I join? To whom do I send my application and my dues? When is the next meeting in my "community"? Do I have to believe in the Michael Brown myth?
How do I join? To whom do I send my application and my dues? When is the next meeting in my "community"? Do I have to believe in the Michael Brown myth?
1
How about an All Lives Matter gun control movement, America?
3
How about "Police Lives Matter !"
1
From the New Yorker: "Last year, under lobbying pressure from the N.R.A., the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms abandoned an effort to stop the sale of armor-piercing “cop killer” ammunition that authorities have tried to ban for thirty years." The NRA should be in hasty retreat not the BLM.
7
Armor piercing ammunition is illegal. It has been for some time. Even the standard Russian and Chinese ammo for the AK is illegal to import because it has a mild steel core. All of the "cop killer" teflon coated bullets are banned.
The ATF has not backed off armor piecing bullets, and the NRA is not defending them. This is fantasy, reflecting ignorance.
The ATF has not backed off armor piecing bullets, and the NRA is not defending them. This is fantasy, reflecting ignorance.
4
ANY Rifle ammunition is 'armor piercing.' The armor piercing ammo ban strictly applies to handgun ammunition. Any bullet, fired from a rifle will go straight through class 3 body armor. Even a simple cleaning rod inserted into a barrel then fired out with a blank will go straight through a military flak jacket.
1
This is a big problem with the gun control side: Not only don't they know what they are talking about, but they are aggressively proud of their ignorance.
2
Yes, of course black lives matter, as should all lives. The black lives matter movement has rightfully brought the disproportionate number of black men dying in police shootings to the attention of the nation, but (mostly) men of other races have perished that way, as well. The problem is the mindset of the police, that may or may not be a function of the job they are asked to do.
One thing that has certainly come to the fore as a result of this crisis and subsequent protests is that, as much as we are constantly told how racist white people are, there are apparently plenty of black people who not only dislike and blame white people for nearly everything, but who actively hate whites, as well.
One thing that has certainly come to the fore as a result of this crisis and subsequent protests is that, as much as we are constantly told how racist white people are, there are apparently plenty of black people who not only dislike and blame white people for nearly everything, but who actively hate whites, as well.
17
Twice as many whites as blacks are killed by police, and the number of blacks killed by police closely matches the proportion of black interactions with police, both as perpetrators and victims. But those would be facts, and they only get in the way of your beliefs so they'll be rejected.
4
One of the main questions raised by black activists is whether the police actively target black people; that is, whether a black person with a broken tail light is more likely to be stopped than a white person with a broken tail light, so even if the number of people of each race killed is in proportion to their interactions with police, that would not necessarily indicate equal treatment. So the "facts" are subject to dispute.
A nutjob kills 5 policemen and it is blamed on the Black Lives Matter group. A nutjob shoots up a Planned Parenthood center in Colorado Springs and it is NOT blamed on the over-the-top exclamations of anti-abortionists. A nutjob shoots up a Black church in Charleston and it is NOT blamed on white supremacists. Those white guys were just nut jobs, not inspired by politcal slogans.
Can you say "rasicm?"
Can you say "rasicm?"
12
Actually, a lot of people blamed the groups you refer to here. You read the NYT and didn't know that?
2
Actually the shooting in Charlestown has been blamed on white supremacists. Some have blamed the clinic deaths on radical right to lifers. We call political terrorists not nut jobs. Deaths at the hands of cops on police culture and police as a whole are labeled racist, killers, even pigs.
True, people involved in groups are selective. So it is that cops may blame rogue cops not police training or culture, right to lifers blame the individual not the inspiration, military blame individual soldiers not the organization, some will at least consider terrorists as individual not a whole religion.
If you are willing to blame cops as a group, inspired by their fellows, covering for each other, "growing up" in a police social system filled with prejudice and hate and influenced by rhetoric, then to be consistent you have to be open to that possibility in other arenas. Sorry to say Micah Johnson and the killer of Officers Liu and Ramos were inspired by ant-police rhetoric. Yes, they likely were "nut jobs," too. But their killing skills might have not be honed and used against cops without the current climate. They might have killed anyway but their targets might have been different.
Certainly BLM activists are not recommending death to cops but hangers on are and all social movements include a range of people. Being selective in evaluation is not honest to experience nor research.
True, people involved in groups are selective. So it is that cops may blame rogue cops not police training or culture, right to lifers blame the individual not the inspiration, military blame individual soldiers not the organization, some will at least consider terrorists as individual not a whole religion.
If you are willing to blame cops as a group, inspired by their fellows, covering for each other, "growing up" in a police social system filled with prejudice and hate and influenced by rhetoric, then to be consistent you have to be open to that possibility in other arenas. Sorry to say Micah Johnson and the killer of Officers Liu and Ramos were inspired by ant-police rhetoric. Yes, they likely were "nut jobs," too. But their killing skills might have not be honed and used against cops without the current climate. They might have killed anyway but their targets might have been different.
Certainly BLM activists are not recommending death to cops but hangers on are and all social movements include a range of people. Being selective in evaluation is not honest to experience nor research.
1
Someone who is white please explain to me....how does the actions of this individual somehow can be blamed on Black Lives Matter???
As a matter of fact, how come so many white americans are saying because this individual killed so many white cops, it will be bad for race relations??
Since WHEN does the actions of an INDIVIDUAL reflects the traits OF A WHOLE RACE?? And therein lies the race issue problem in America. Whites see non-whites, but African Americans in particular, as a monolithic entity. When one does evil, the whole race is demonized.
This is the very essence of Institutional Racism. The majority of White Americans cannot see the individuality of minorities. One does wrong, the whole group is held accountable.
As a matter of fact, how come so many white americans are saying because this individual killed so many white cops, it will be bad for race relations??
Since WHEN does the actions of an INDIVIDUAL reflects the traits OF A WHOLE RACE?? And therein lies the race issue problem in America. Whites see non-whites, but African Americans in particular, as a monolithic entity. When one does evil, the whole race is demonized.
This is the very essence of Institutional Racism. The majority of White Americans cannot see the individuality of minorities. One does wrong, the whole group is held accountable.
6
Like the greatest president in the United States history President Obama said "what we say matters".
When some of their members say things that are violent in nature it's BLM's responsibility to call them out.
it's BLM's responsibility to preach peace and love.
I know it's hard but that's what Gandhi did Jesus did Martin Luther King did. That's what Obama does.
Let's work with the mistakes that were made so we don't make them again in the future.
When some of their members say things that are violent in nature it's BLM's responsibility to call them out.
it's BLM's responsibility to preach peace and love.
I know it's hard but that's what Gandhi did Jesus did Martin Luther King did. That's what Obama does.
Let's work with the mistakes that were made so we don't make them again in the future.
"... how [can] the actions of this individual somehow ...be blamed on Black Lives Matter?"
I consider myself a veteran of several movements, including the civil rights movement, the anti-war movement and the women's movement. So from my perspective, I will tell you why I believe that BLM shares some responsibility for the police murders in Dallas. I have watched with growing concern the extremism in both rhetoric and actions at demonstrations "led" by BLM. In fact, I shared with them that concern in an email. "Someone is going to get hurt" if the extreme rhetoric is not reigned in, I wrote to them in response to a fund raising email. The problem is that the organization is amorphous and has no clear leadership. Words matter more than ever in this era of social media. In my community, a BLM led demonstration devolved into a riot. Police were hurt and they did not start the violence. People came prepared for violence. In Dallas, several marchers were dressed in camouflage and carried rifles. Where was the leadership? Where was the committment to nonviolence? BLM needs to take responsibility for their words and actions and the ways in which their words and actions inspire their followers. If BLM does not learn this lesson, they will pitter out and become a footnote of history.
I consider myself a veteran of several movements, including the civil rights movement, the anti-war movement and the women's movement. So from my perspective, I will tell you why I believe that BLM shares some responsibility for the police murders in Dallas. I have watched with growing concern the extremism in both rhetoric and actions at demonstrations "led" by BLM. In fact, I shared with them that concern in an email. "Someone is going to get hurt" if the extreme rhetoric is not reigned in, I wrote to them in response to a fund raising email. The problem is that the organization is amorphous and has no clear leadership. Words matter more than ever in this era of social media. In my community, a BLM led demonstration devolved into a riot. Police were hurt and they did not start the violence. People came prepared for violence. In Dallas, several marchers were dressed in camouflage and carried rifles. Where was the leadership? Where was the committment to nonviolence? BLM needs to take responsibility for their words and actions and the ways in which their words and actions inspire their followers. If BLM does not learn this lesson, they will pitter out and become a footnote of history.
Haven't you just "demonized" and categorized the entire "white" race?
1
Im not sure how much ground BLM was gaining. In Oakland, we've had several nights of protesters blocking highways illegally, smashing store/bank windows, and destroying public property. This has made many people feel cold towards the group. Group members I have spoken to call these rallies peaceful protests, but my friends and I disagree - and this is one of the divides. The group tries to compare itself to the MLK movement, and when I tell them that their actions do not follow MLK's tactics, then they claim to be Malcolm X followers, and then when I correct them and say that Malcolm X became a peaceful follower of Islam, they get angry and walk away. It is apparent that the youthful leaders of BLM don't have an understanding of history and what works, and what doesn't work - or they chose to ignore it.
39
That's another thing they have in common with Bernie supporters: ignorance of history with a thick overlay of indifference.
3
Protests are meant, on some level, to inconvenience, and in so doing raise awareness, so on that level I disagree with your arguments. But I agree that many modern progressive movements which I agree with ideologically, have learned nothing from history about what works.
Many who took part in the often confrontational anti-Vietnam protests of the early '70s like to say they helped end the war. Actually, in the wake of those protests, a population frightened by their conflagrant demonstrations voted Richard Nixon to a second term, by a landslide, and arguably helped keep the war going.
MLK and Gandhi's methods are more effective in winning people to your cause than confrontational rage. I hate Trump and his frightening rallies, but for instance the angry disruption of his Chicago rally probably only bolstered his minions' resolve, rather than show them the error of their thinking.
All that being said, there is institutional racism, and many of these police shootings are an utter horror. BLM has nonetheless admirably never advocated violence, and one madman's killing spree should not be held against the movement. I do hope the gentleman quoted at the end of this story is not made a BLM leader, though. Contrary to his belief, to those ideologically opposed to BLM, that spree does NOT serve as a wake up call to how outraged black America is. It just hardens their opposition to BLM.
Many who took part in the often confrontational anti-Vietnam protests of the early '70s like to say they helped end the war. Actually, in the wake of those protests, a population frightened by their conflagrant demonstrations voted Richard Nixon to a second term, by a landslide, and arguably helped keep the war going.
MLK and Gandhi's methods are more effective in winning people to your cause than confrontational rage. I hate Trump and his frightening rallies, but for instance the angry disruption of his Chicago rally probably only bolstered his minions' resolve, rather than show them the error of their thinking.
All that being said, there is institutional racism, and many of these police shootings are an utter horror. BLM has nonetheless admirably never advocated violence, and one madman's killing spree should not be held against the movement. I do hope the gentleman quoted at the end of this story is not made a BLM leader, though. Contrary to his belief, to those ideologically opposed to BLM, that spree does NOT serve as a wake up call to how outraged black America is. It just hardens their opposition to BLM.
Let's agree that there are too many instances of excessive force (often criminal) by police towards minorites. What solutions and policies does Black Lives Matter feel would help to rectify this situation? Because if BLM is nothing more than protests it is doomed to failure.
10
The implicit bigotry in Donald Trump's anti-semitic tweet a week or two ago, which was discussed in great details and with extraordinary repetition, is the same implicit bigotry that conflates the Black Lives Matter movement with the actions of Micah Johnson or any other individual because the person happens to be black or African-American.
Lest we forget, it is some of these very organizations and individuals who have also blamed the president for these deaths and the deaths of other police officers since he spoke out in the Trayvon Martin case. A former member of Congress told the president to mind his back after the Dallas killings . . . seriously? Remember police officers turning their backs on Mayor de Blasio and blamed him for the deaths of NY officers simply because he dared admit the truth about conversations he'd had with his son.
But as we saw in the James Blake case, as long as you are a black male in America you are at risk of being viciously accosted by the police. It does not matter how good a citizen you are. It doesn't matter how good a man you are.
It is a measure of our individual and collective decency to be willing to discern the movement from individual anarchists when the evidence prove they are separate. I hope the movement is not deterred by the insidious efforts to silence its message. Perhaps the greater cause is a place where the president might find a post White House career.
Lest we forget, it is some of these very organizations and individuals who have also blamed the president for these deaths and the deaths of other police officers since he spoke out in the Trayvon Martin case. A former member of Congress told the president to mind his back after the Dallas killings . . . seriously? Remember police officers turning their backs on Mayor de Blasio and blamed him for the deaths of NY officers simply because he dared admit the truth about conversations he'd had with his son.
But as we saw in the James Blake case, as long as you are a black male in America you are at risk of being viciously accosted by the police. It does not matter how good a citizen you are. It doesn't matter how good a man you are.
It is a measure of our individual and collective decency to be willing to discern the movement from individual anarchists when the evidence prove they are separate. I hope the movement is not deterred by the insidious efforts to silence its message. Perhaps the greater cause is a place where the president might find a post White House career.
3
Some who genuinely don't get what Black Matters is about can easily connect a movement created to protest all-too-common police mistreatment of blacks, including the killing of innocents, with a murderous "response" by a black man. Others are deliberately, cynically trumpeting the linkage.
But it has nothing to do with the Trump tweet, and I detect an anger in the comment that is not warranted.
But it has nothing to do with the Trump tweet, and I detect an anger in the comment that is not warranted.
A deranged young man goes on a rampage and massacres innocent people. Should we make it into a racial issue? We didn't hear blacks in Charleston yelling "White racism!" after a young white man who wanted to start a race war massacred them at prayer in their church. Instead, they offered the "amazing grace" of forgiveness. But, in gun-crazed Republican Texas with it's history of racism, we now hear white politicians openly revealing their bigotry by victim-blaming blacks who were exercising their first amendment rights by peacefully protesting in Dallas about the unwarranted deaths of other blacks at the hands of white police officers. The moral asymmetry is as striking as it is indicative of the blatant racism at the very heart of the Southern-dominated Republican Party. The connection between racism and guns couldn't be more clear. Instead of grace the Texas white political elite responds with hate; instead of forgiveness, they respond with blame.
5
Black lives matter lose all credibility when they shout "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon." Most police are good people and it is unfortunate that a few bad apples paint a board brush that all are evil. They risk their lives each and every day to save us from the criminals who would do us harm. The bad officers must be weeded out and the good ones praised.
Black lives matter stirs the pot and causes racial division that is destroying our country. It does not have to be like this and we need to work to end the hate. All lives matter today and we must band together to help one another as life is difficult at times for everyone. We need to restore harmony and peace and move forward. This is a great country and we are all Americans.
Black lives matter stirs the pot and causes racial division that is destroying our country. It does not have to be like this and we need to work to end the hate. All lives matter today and we must band together to help one another as life is difficult at times for everyone. We need to restore harmony and peace and move forward. This is a great country and we are all Americans.
36
There is no way to know how much Black Lives Matter rhetoric incited Micah Johnson. It's very possible he would have done this anyway.
Our division is out of control. Innocent blacks are killed by police and police are disproportionately killed by blacks - irrespective of this incident.
As long as the tension mounts on both sides, I don't see an end to this soon.
Our division is out of control. Innocent blacks are killed by police and police are disproportionately killed by blacks - irrespective of this incident.
As long as the tension mounts on both sides, I don't see an end to this soon.
10
Cooler heads must prevail and thank God for President Obama. This travesty occurred while he was on another continent and during Summer so TV cannot not run amok with riled pundits. Coincidence? Maybe not. The BLM must remain focused and continue momentum. Condolences to Dallas police chief and officers.
3
How is this any different from when a deranged person kills a doctor who provides abortions or employees at an abortion clinic? Is it the fault of the pro-life movement? Is the pro-life movement a terrorist group or a hate group because they call doctors who provide abortions murderers? I don't see that movement receiving this type of vitriol when a killing happens for their cause.
6
Very many people claim that the pro-life movement is a terrorist or hate group. And the pro-life movement does very much received this type of vitriol.
The great tragedy of these dual tragedies is that they have been enabled by the proliferation of guns in America. Take away the guns, as Australia did after the Port Arthur massacre in 1996 and you will go a long way to solving the problem.
Black lives do matter, but so do White Police Officers. But in order to see the problem completely America has to be honest with itself and deal with a major component and root cause of this type of tragedy.
Black lives do matter, but so do White Police Officers. But in order to see the problem completely America has to be honest with itself and deal with a major component and root cause of this type of tragedy.
7
I am white; when I was stopped for a tail light out, I have been treated with respect and lived to tell the tale. I have never had to advise my child how to avoid being harmed by police. We desperately need the BLM movement, because black lives must no longer be treated as one iota less important than white lives.
9
You didn't teach your children how to behave during an encounter with the police? If so you've made a serious mistake.
Even if you never say a thing they learn from what they see us do. If you're ever stopped when your teen is in the car, set an example.
Signal that you're pulling over.
Stop the car.
Be polite.
Keep your hands visible, preferably on the wheel.
Don't argue with the officer.
When you're asked to show your license tell the officer my license is in my purse or my pocket, or wherever it may be. Before you make a move always ask "may I reach for it now?"
If the officer gives you a ticket say "thank you."
The place to argue is in traffic court not on the street.
If you didn't teach them how to behave during a police stop you made a mistake. If you didn't teach them that a police officer is aware every single day that somebody might try to kill her that day, you've made a mistake.
Even if you never say a thing they learn from what they see us do. If you're ever stopped when your teen is in the car, set an example.
Signal that you're pulling over.
Stop the car.
Be polite.
Keep your hands visible, preferably on the wheel.
Don't argue with the officer.
When you're asked to show your license tell the officer my license is in my purse or my pocket, or wherever it may be. Before you make a move always ask "may I reach for it now?"
If the officer gives you a ticket say "thank you."
The place to argue is in traffic court not on the street.
If you didn't teach them how to behave during a police stop you made a mistake. If you didn't teach them that a police officer is aware every single day that somebody might try to kill her that day, you've made a mistake.
1
BLM is a convenient outlet for blacks who don't want to face the fact that the reason for their disparate treatment from law enforcement is because 50% of the violent crime in this country and 70% in NYC is committed by blacks. It allows them to point the finger at someone else instead of taking a cold look at how their own behavior shapes the reality they live in.
48
A reason some/many/most Americans are unimpressed with the BLM thing? Lies like "HANDS UP, DON'T SHOOT".
3
This statement is the problem. "In a televised interview, the executive director of the National Association of Police Organizations blamed President Obama for waging a “war on cops.” Stop "blaming" others and please address the problems that are REAL and happen every single day. Not all cops are bad but the ones that are killing/bullying/hurting people when it could be avoided are the problem! STOP protecting them and this would be over.
4
It needs to be said - the big picture here is that there are racist cops who have been murdering black people for years and getting away with it. The chickens are now coming home to roost and everybody wants to feel sorry for the cops! I'm sorry, but until the entire cop establishment recognizes that they must reform from within and confront AND eliminate their murderous behavior problem this will only continue, and yes, get worse. Black people have every reason to fear cops (even black ones) because they have been conditioned for years to do so. This is not an excuse for murder but it is a reason for the cop community to recognize they are bringing this down on themselves and they must be the ones to fix it.
4
Black Lives Matter lost ground when we all supported them and one of the first victims they championed was killed after robbing a store and threatening an officer. The Times is no help when printing op eds by the robber's mother. Any mother loves her son. Not all sons are equal representatives of the problem, though.
39
Agree. Lezley McSpadden claimed yet again in that op-ed that Michael Brown was a victim of "police brutality".
@state
I am always very cautious when reading the comments of one person who speaks in the pluralistic form of "WE" as in:
"Black Lives Matter lost ground when we ....."
This doesn't actually add any more credulity to what you are saying.
SPEAK FOR YOURSELF.
I am always very cautious when reading the comments of one person who speaks in the pluralistic form of "WE" as in:
"Black Lives Matter lost ground when we ....."
This doesn't actually add any more credulity to what you are saying.
SPEAK FOR YOURSELF.
2
The root cause of all the deaths; Sterling, Castile, Thompson, Zamarippa, Krol, Smith, Ahrens and the others that preceded this tragic week, is the same. Racism. I appreciate and support Black Lives Matter in the effort to expose and examine the racism that is built into our culture. I hope we may learn, dismantle, and transcend this terrible structure, together.
4
Unfortunately the statistics demonstrate that the black lives matter movement is not based on facts. African Americans are disproportionately shot less than whites or Hispanics relative to criminal activity. This is because in truth the police - especially white offices - are more reluctant to shoot an African American as compared to whites or Hispanics.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myths-of-black-lives-matter-1468087453
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myths-of-black-lives-matter-1468087453
27
I think the lead picture says it all - the one with the caption "Demonstrators in Brooklyn on Friday, one day after five police officers were killed in Dallas, protest the recent police shootings of black men in Louisiana and Minnesota". Look at the scared white kids in the window. It could be scared Asian kids or scared Latino kids. And adults.
7
If that family owns a gun, I don't see them giving it up.
It would be interesting to hear more from black officers on this issue. No cop goes to work wanting to kill anybody and it's doubtful they feel "entitled to kill people of color". On the other hand, no civilian goes out wanting to be harassed or killed by those who serve the community. Reality lies somewhere in the middle so the solution will be found in the middle. Nothing wrong with the BLM movement putting pressure on politicians to address a real problem, without this pressure we know for sure politicians won't act.
5
I do not understand why people are surprised blacks have started fighting back. How many murdered black men and boys - and yes, murdered is the right word - are they supposed to endure before they return the violence?
I am not saying it is acceptable, just understandable. And I predict it is going to get a lot worse.
I am not saying it is acceptable, just understandable. And I predict it is going to get a lot worse.
4
Yes you just condoned the murder of innocent police officers. Disgusting.
1
One of the columnists, Mr. Hassan, stated that ISIS is gaining traction because it has a clear ideology. With Trump and Sanders saying the system is rigged (maybe it is), and people saying our society is racist (maybe it is), and clever TV people saying its all about the "narrative" (maybe it is), our nation needs more than ever a strong advocate of Constitutionalism - the ideology of our nation - and a constructive (not deconstructive) approach to recounting our history as a banner for the future.
5
Sounds like an ad for Hillary Clinton
Agree. Learning history can change people. Example? The enormous success of "Hamilton", a rap version of the story of our greatest founding fathers, Alexander Hamilton and George Washington.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=hamilton+rap
The Republicans have won the war against education. (See, e.g., the article in today's NYT on what Kansas has done to its "government" schools.) They want everyone to be poor and stupid.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=hamilton+rap
The Republicans have won the war against education. (See, e.g., the article in today's NYT on what Kansas has done to its "government" schools.) They want everyone to be poor and stupid.
The ire against BLM is coming from people who support a strong law enforcement system and believe that the police can do nothing wrong in the line of duty. They cannot accept the emotional response of revenge as Micah Johnson's motive, because that would mean they would have to admit that the police did something wrong to provoke the vengeance.
Because the police supporters believe that the police can do wrong, they have to find reasons other than revenge for the Dallas massacre. So they are blaming the activism of BLM, rather than the root cause of the activism.
Yet the police supporters applaud the way Johnson was killed with the bomb robot. And if he were still alive, it's a near certainty that the police supporters would be agitating for vengeance in the form of a swift, few-if-any-questions-asked trial and a maximally harsh sentence for the sniper.
Many police supporters, not just in Dallas, want vengeance for the tragedy, and they want vengeance on Black Lives Matter. The danger now is that there will be a violent backlash against the group - think J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI vs. the Black Panther Party - provoking a cycle of tit-for-tat mayhem. The elephant in the room that no one will admit is the easy access to guns in America, which enables a potential level of tit-for-tat that eclipses anything from the past.
We can only wait and see what happens next, and hope for the best.
Because the police supporters believe that the police can do wrong, they have to find reasons other than revenge for the Dallas massacre. So they are blaming the activism of BLM, rather than the root cause of the activism.
Yet the police supporters applaud the way Johnson was killed with the bomb robot. And if he were still alive, it's a near certainty that the police supporters would be agitating for vengeance in the form of a swift, few-if-any-questions-asked trial and a maximally harsh sentence for the sniper.
Many police supporters, not just in Dallas, want vengeance for the tragedy, and they want vengeance on Black Lives Matter. The danger now is that there will be a violent backlash against the group - think J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI vs. the Black Panther Party - provoking a cycle of tit-for-tat mayhem. The elephant in the room that no one will admit is the easy access to guns in America, which enables a potential level of tit-for-tat that eclipses anything from the past.
We can only wait and see what happens next, and hope for the best.
3
Actually that is not true I know of the White people, including myself, I know personally. We are absolutely against police brutality and many of us have been on the receiving end of the harassment. We are sick of the militarization of our police, and we are sick of the killings (check out police shootings in our city).
The reason we are against BLM is the racist overtones it produces and employs. All that seemingly matters is someone's skin color. They don't come out and protest wrongful shootings of non-African Americans, nor do they acknowledge that police brutality is an issue that doesn't just affect them. Their rhetoric overwhelmingly guilt trips others (e.g. White Priviledge) and diminishes the real struggle individuals go through on a daily basis. Overwhelmingly, they don't believe one can be racist against white people so we are fodder for their blatant miscategorizations and generalizations. They assume a built up power structure that elevates any white in site, while ignoring the actual institutional racism that exists in Affirmative Programs. They belittle the goal of living in a post-racial society, and instead propagate division by emphasizing skin color. There is no way around it, BLM is inherently racist and a national embarrassment in the fight for equality and justice.
The reason we are against BLM is the racist overtones it produces and employs. All that seemingly matters is someone's skin color. They don't come out and protest wrongful shootings of non-African Americans, nor do they acknowledge that police brutality is an issue that doesn't just affect them. Their rhetoric overwhelmingly guilt trips others (e.g. White Priviledge) and diminishes the real struggle individuals go through on a daily basis. Overwhelmingly, they don't believe one can be racist against white people so we are fodder for their blatant miscategorizations and generalizations. They assume a built up power structure that elevates any white in site, while ignoring the actual institutional racism that exists in Affirmative Programs. They belittle the goal of living in a post-racial society, and instead propagate division by emphasizing skin color. There is no way around it, BLM is inherently racist and a national embarrassment in the fight for equality and justice.
A common reaction to black people's anti-discrimination activism is for those accused, or "guilt-tripped" of racism , to counter-accuse blacks of racism. That leads to shouting matches about who's the real racist, and to arguments like yours.
The strident tones of BLM and their in-your-face activism does not ignore the fact that police brutality affects a whole lot more people than blacks. BLM simply focuses on the disproportionately frequent and extreme treatment blacks face at the hands of the police. I can easily imagine that BLM would welcome support by a multi-racial, national organization, or any political candidate for that matter, that agitates against ALL police brutality.
In fact, rather than take offense at BLM for making you feel guilty even though you know you're not, you and other whites should consider joining forces with BLM, specifically to broaden the goal to the elimination of all police brutality. That would be powerful.
The strident tones of BLM and their in-your-face activism does not ignore the fact that police brutality affects a whole lot more people than blacks. BLM simply focuses on the disproportionately frequent and extreme treatment blacks face at the hands of the police. I can easily imagine that BLM would welcome support by a multi-racial, national organization, or any political candidate for that matter, that agitates against ALL police brutality.
In fact, rather than take offense at BLM for making you feel guilty even though you know you're not, you and other whites should consider joining forces with BLM, specifically to broaden the goal to the elimination of all police brutality. That would be powerful.
The rate and shocking nature of black men shot dead by law enforcement officers under less than threatening circumstances demands the formation of a movement Black Lives Matter that specifically calls out these outrageous acts and clamors for change. As our society grows more polarized, more violent and more chaotic, we are seeing white domestic terrorism descend on black churches and black domestic terrorism descend on law enforcement officers. The poisonous and divisive rhetoric must stop and the black and white dialogue must begin with urgency at the highest levels of federal, state and local governments.
2
I feel sorry for my African American brothers and sisters. They are going to more marginalized whether we pretend our country is not divise or not. As much as I like President Obama, our country has been more divided under his administration.
4
From your prefacing words, "As much as I like President Obama," it appears to me you think it might be his fault and that he is responsible for the division. One reason would be there are people who can't deal with a black president. All that is going on this week could not be less attributable to our President.
Black people have been being harassed and often shot by the police ever since Reconstruction. They are now documenting it and protesting, long overdue. We whites SHOULD have been protesting it but many people were unaware. There is no longer any excuse for unawareness. If those who want the status quo to remain use an isolated shooter to discredit a movement long past due, no one should be surprised or be taken in by it. White supremacy groups also inflame crazy behavior but are allowed their say in a democracy. The lone shooter of the black congregation was inspired by them. I am sorry for the loss of lives of the policemen and what it means to their families. But compared to the losses of black communities the numbers speak for themselves.
3
White supremacist groups are universally denounced. The left still supports BLM's hateful rhetoric and its promotion of violence against police officers. "Pigs in a blanket fry them like bacon" and "what do we want? Dead cops!" Those are BLM protest chants. Stop with the moral equivalency.
BLM is a group of belligerent and often violent mobs, without any clear message often than discontent.
Contrast this to the civil rights movement which were more orderly, had respectable leaders and had specific policy changes to articulate.
BLM, as well as many readers here, seem to just call for 'widespread changes' or other vague notions that we need a thought police. This is because the real objective changes for equality under the law have long since been accomplished.
Contrast this to the civil rights movement which were more orderly, had respectable leaders and had specific policy changes to articulate.
BLM, as well as many readers here, seem to just call for 'widespread changes' or other vague notions that we need a thought police. This is because the real objective changes for equality under the law have long since been accomplished.
30
They also call for "Justice" without explaining what, exactly, that means......
Part of the problem is the destruction of education. Public school funding is constantly being decreased and post secendary education is out of reach for the vast majority of youth. Without that education it is difficult to come up with policies to suggest change and oratory skills to calm the anger of the disenfranchised youth. That leadership is what is missing there is no Dr King this time to shepard this cause and direct this massive group. All they have is their anger and frustration amplified by years of suffering and inequality. The law says that all are equal but in practice this is far from the truth.
The problem with the saying the shooter doesn't represent black lives matter is thus
1) If you attend a BLM protest, it is full of violence, vile language and incitement against whites exactly of the kind reflected by the killer. Violence is routine at these marches. Contrast this to tea party rallies which are completely respectful, propel feel safe attending as families, and I don't think have had a single violent incident yet.
2) Of all the blacks killed, in not a single case has anyone involved expressed hate towards blacks. This guy explicitly said he hates whites.
1) If you attend a BLM protest, it is full of violence, vile language and incitement against whites exactly of the kind reflected by the killer. Violence is routine at these marches. Contrast this to tea party rallies which are completely respectful, propel feel safe attending as families, and I don't think have had a single violent incident yet.
2) Of all the blacks killed, in not a single case has anyone involved expressed hate towards blacks. This guy explicitly said he hates whites.
24
What you don't understand is that the police bullets that are killing these black men are the loud shouting of hate you didn't mention and ignore because you can't see the strong brave black Americans who are exprssing their earned right to protest and speak as they wish. The innocent lives silenced by these hateful individual police officers would still be on this earth if the police learned to protest non-violently or call their victims names instead of shooting them. Wake up, America is on a new course of greatness and we will stop the wrongs of senseless hateful crimes.
Maybe not a terrorist group, but a definitely a hate group. Some of the signs at rallies: "Cops, Pigs, Murderers"; "Shut Down AmerKKKa"; "Stop White Supremacy"; "Smash White Supremacy"; "Jail Killer Cops"; Rise Up Stop Police Terror"; "End Racist Genocide"; and on a shirt "Kill White Supremacists." This is a long way from the non violence encouraged by MLK. And stopping traffic on highways and clogging up subways and airports does nothing but make people that might be sympathetic to the cause frustrated and angry, not to mention that in some cases danger to some who need emergency medical attention. And one can't avoid noticing that a lot of these protests end up being an excuse for burning or looting the very community that is protesting. What you espouse has consequences whether intended or not. Tell people that all cops are racist murderers and someone out there is going to take that message and act on it. Maybe by peacefully protesting, and maybe less likely, ambushing police officers to do exactly what has been espoused by the movement.
32
If the police as a whole wanted a ban on assault weapons, there would be one in place tomorrow. Instead, here is their position after Dallas: William Johnson, the executive director of National Association of Police Organizations stated, " It's a horrible day. It's a war on cops and the Obama administration is the Neville Chamberlain of this war. I think their continued appeasement at the federal level with the Department of Justice, their appeasement of violent criminals, their refusal to condemn movements like Black Lives Matter, actively calling for the death of police officers, that type of thing, all the while blaming police for the problems in this country has led directly to the climate that has made Dallas possible."
3
It can no longer be argued that African American men are not disproportionately targeted by the police in this country or that they do not face a disproportionate danger of being killed in an encounter with law enforcement. Thus, the fact that a representative of so many police officers and police departments would make such an outrageous statement (equating peaceful protest and respectful criticism to waging war) is telling. Either the men and women of law enforcement are being ill served by their representatives, or they too believe that they are at war with those who rightfully protest unjustified brutality directed at American Citizens based on skin color.
The BLM movement has missed a chance to be at the forefront of a general movement against gun violence in America. Would the police in the USA be able to get away with shooting so many Blacks if we were not already used to tens of thousands of shooting deaths a year as "normal". Would the police be held more accountable if they could not so easily justify their actions by saying they assume everyone they meet has a gun? The last two police shootings indeed involved victims who were carrying. And what sort of "peaceful" march involves people carrying weapons? A peaceful march in Texas where open carry is a state law.
1
I think that BLM has caused people to feel that they need to cling to their guns for practical reasons, not theoretical as you suggest.
One of the reasons the US has such problems with weapons everywhere, must be the general stupidity that allows officials get away with accusing the Black Lives Matter organization of "creating the conditions for what happened". Who created such conditions, really? If the general public is unable to ponder this question more broadly, and unable to demand the same of their representatives, there is no hope for improvement.
Recently we (almost) all learned about a gorilla that was killed in a zoo to rescue a child that had fallen in its hands. Police departments in the US must learn from this. Consider what happened in the Tamir Rice case. A 12 years old boy was playing in a park, and doing what twelve years old boys do in parks. Playing with toys. The Police got wind of a boy with a weapon, possibly a toy weapon. The PD sent a car, the officer got scared, and shot the boy within two seconds of leaving the car. How irresponsibly of the PD! You just don't send a cop in a park where there might be children playing! The officers may be scared and kill the children! No, you don't allow cops to roam in the parks any more than you send gorillas!
-- Well, I just can't wrap my head around this. How is it possible that in such a great and clever nation, only jokers understand this? Instead of discussing the general irresponsibility of Police Departments, everybody only discusses if the poor cop was scared sufficiently to justify the killing!
Recently we (almost) all learned about a gorilla that was killed in a zoo to rescue a child that had fallen in its hands. Police departments in the US must learn from this. Consider what happened in the Tamir Rice case. A 12 years old boy was playing in a park, and doing what twelve years old boys do in parks. Playing with toys. The Police got wind of a boy with a weapon, possibly a toy weapon. The PD sent a car, the officer got scared, and shot the boy within two seconds of leaving the car. How irresponsibly of the PD! You just don't send a cop in a park where there might be children playing! The officers may be scared and kill the children! No, you don't allow cops to roam in the parks any more than you send gorillas!
-- Well, I just can't wrap my head around this. How is it possible that in such a great and clever nation, only jokers understand this? Instead of discussing the general irresponsibility of Police Departments, everybody only discusses if the poor cop was scared sufficiently to justify the killing!
I invite you to visit the US and spend some time on the South Side of Chicago. You might just have a different perspective after that experience.
Do you just want to pour more gas on the raging flames, or does the truth matter?
Tamir Rice was apparently 5'10" or 6 feet tall and (I believe) built to match. So it was not obvious that Rice was a kid.
It is false that the police officers "got wind of a boy with a weapon." Tragically the dispatcher did not relay the informant's suspicion that Rice was a child and that the gun was a fake.
When the police arrived, Rice pulled what the officers believed was a gun out of his waist-band. The gun was not obviously a toy. In fact, news reports stated that it was "replica" of a real handgun.
People get killed in parks too. So your sarcasm is out of place. In fact, just 50 yards from where Tamir was shot to death there are markers honoring officers killed by suspects in the neighborhood. A news report out of Cleveland noted that the Cudell neighborhood is plagued by a history of gangs and violence.
I agree that the Officer panicked and showed that he was unfit to be a cop. But that is no excuse for distorting the truth.
Tamir Rice was apparently 5'10" or 6 feet tall and (I believe) built to match. So it was not obvious that Rice was a kid.
It is false that the police officers "got wind of a boy with a weapon." Tragically the dispatcher did not relay the informant's suspicion that Rice was a child and that the gun was a fake.
When the police arrived, Rice pulled what the officers believed was a gun out of his waist-band. The gun was not obviously a toy. In fact, news reports stated that it was "replica" of a real handgun.
People get killed in parks too. So your sarcasm is out of place. In fact, just 50 yards from where Tamir was shot to death there are markers honoring officers killed by suspects in the neighborhood. A news report out of Cleveland noted that the Cudell neighborhood is plagued by a history of gangs and violence.
I agree that the Officer panicked and showed that he was unfit to be a cop. But that is no excuse for distorting the truth.
1
The Black Lives Matter movement would be more effective and have greater support if the name was changed to "Black Lives Matter Too."
The current name infers that white lives don't matter, even though to some that may not be the implication behind the name.
If a group of people creates an organization called "White Lives Matter" it would be just as offensive and would do nothing to help race relations in society.
The leaders of Black Lives Matter should ask themselves if the name of the organization is helping or hurting the objective of the organization. If the objective is to unify blacks and whites so we may all live in peace, the name is not helping to achieve that objective. If the objective is to anger a great number of white people by either intentionally or inadvertently inferring that white lives don't matter, then the name of the organization is achieving their objective.
If the people responsible for naming the organization were sincere in their efforts, the organization would have been named Black Lives Matter Too.
The current name infers that white lives don't matter, even though to some that may not be the implication behind the name.
If a group of people creates an organization called "White Lives Matter" it would be just as offensive and would do nothing to help race relations in society.
The leaders of Black Lives Matter should ask themselves if the name of the organization is helping or hurting the objective of the organization. If the objective is to unify blacks and whites so we may all live in peace, the name is not helping to achieve that objective. If the objective is to anger a great number of white people by either intentionally or inadvertently inferring that white lives don't matter, then the name of the organization is achieving their objective.
If the people responsible for naming the organization were sincere in their efforts, the organization would have been named Black Lives Matter Too.
15
#AllLivesMatter would be a better name.
2
After Dallas, they could change their name and motto and it won't make a difference. There's no common ground and Obama is not an honest broker here. See you at the polls.
2
"If the people responsible for naming the organization were sincere in their efforts, the organization would have been named Black Lives Matter Too."
Hence Whites are calling it, "Only Black Lives Matter" with justification.
Hence Whites are calling it, "Only Black Lives Matter" with justification.
Alton Sterling and Philando Castile were both armed common thugs who's behavior is responsible for their fate. As is the large majority of those who have been shot by the police. Be it by menacing the public with an exact replica of a toy gun, to actually going fisticuffs with a police officer. They are reaping the fruits of very foolish behavior. No one else is to blame.
20
I have seen no datum on Castile. He supposedly told the policeman that he had a concealed carry permit and was reaching for it. If he was he should have waited for permission from the policeman before reaching near his waistband where a gun could have been hidden. But if he didn't have a permit then what was he reaching for? A gun? Was one found on him?
As I wrote earlier I haven't see anything on the man unlike the other man who attracted police with a report that he was threatening someone with a gun and had a history of felonies that prohibited him from possessing one. Not seeing more information I can only assume he did not want to be patted down and the gun found thus the struggle.
As I wrote earlier I haven't see anything on the man unlike the other man who attracted police with a report that he was threatening someone with a gun and had a history of felonies that prohibited him from possessing one. Not seeing more information I can only assume he did not want to be patted down and the gun found thus the struggle.
We have to stop blaming and start taking responsibility for our biases. Bias is not the same as racism - whether black or white, we are more likely to perceive danger when a black person reaches into their pocket than a white person does. Anyone ever see the bicycle getting stolen video? Police need to be better trained to de-esculate, but they could also use regular treatment for PTSD since we put them in so many dangerous situations. We all need to stop seeing issues as two-sided and blaming one side or the other. We can only do that by honestly studying our own biases, including our addiction to guns and violent content, and the depreciation of empathy that's the result of our addiction to social media instead of face-to-face relating.
4
Reading these comments is disturbing. The anti-black lives matters commentors sound like Holocaust deniers who reject the impact of our national history on our present day cultural failings. Sustemic racism is a failing of our American culture that exists because it never has been sufficiently remedied. Our mutual history is replete with racial violence and subjugation convenietly forgotten in this present discourse by the political right and left. The inability to critically differentiate between individual members of a particular ethnic group is called bigotry. The calls for a Muslim ban by Trump are echoed by Limbaugh and others who would suggest advocating for equal protection under the law makes you a terrorist in your own country. I 'm reminded that the British treated our founders like terrorists too. Railing against people pursuing their Constitutional right to protest and protection is antithetical to what democracy promises. Painting an entire race or religion with the same broad brush is bigoted and supports systemic racism.
59
If you see racism, confront it at its source. That means a reply to the statement you deem racist. That may provoke a response, but that's what you deal with when there is a debate. Much easier to just post and point fingers all over the place.
If blacks assimilated into the greater American culture instead of demanding to be separate to express their "blackness" (whatever that means), then you might be able to talk about cultural failings. Until then, you have a group that wants special privileges to exist separate from the mainstream. All you are doing is reaping what has been sown by political correctness and multiculturalism.
But lets also not forget that racism exists on both sides, evidence the shooter. Both sides have culpability in the problem and the solution.
From the beginning I have been concerned that the focus of BLM on policing rather than the broader issues of institutional racism could be problematic. Police are front and center in our communities and the consequences of their actions can be fatal so it is natural that people become outraged after police shootings. But by singling out police you have indeed helped make them in particular a target for the deranged among us. Haven't many of us called out right wing radio and others for inciting violence through their less than careful rhetoric? I was a teacher in high stressed neighborhoods and we felt like we were always being blamed for the ills of society. And just like in our police departments racism exists in our schools. But most of us work everyday to combat it. I don't blame BLM for the Dallas shooting but if we don't address the broader issues like grownups then we will continue to just scapegoat those groups that have the highest profile in our communities.
20
RE: right wing radio inciting violence through their less than careful rhetoric?
It would help if you cited an instance of this.
It would help if you cited an instance of this.
We need to realize the nation is not divided by race, religion or profession, though many with media access attempt to make that so.
We are divided by those who resort to violence and murder and those who do not.
The 320 million Americans who do not kill people should stand united against the thousands who do.
The central message of Black Lives Matter is for peace and against murder.
The central message of all religions is for love and peace.
The central message of police departments is to Protect and Serve.
Only disturbed extremists in their midst with easy access to guns choose murder and violence. They must all be brought to justice.
The entire nation is united against violence and murder.
We are divided by those who resort to violence and murder and those who do not.
The 320 million Americans who do not kill people should stand united against the thousands who do.
The central message of Black Lives Matter is for peace and against murder.
The central message of all religions is for love and peace.
The central message of police departments is to Protect and Serve.
Only disturbed extremists in their midst with easy access to guns choose murder and violence. They must all be brought to justice.
The entire nation is united against violence and murder.
3
@parsons
Don't fool yourself. This is a nation not only divided by race, but one that was founded and built upon that same tenet.
Otherwise, I agree totally with what you have to say.
Don't fool yourself. This is a nation not only divided by race, but one that was founded and built upon that same tenet.
Otherwise, I agree totally with what you have to say.
1
When the Black Lives Matter starts showing up in southside Chicago, the streets of Baltimore, etc actively protesting against the street gangs and minority thugs that terrorize these communities, they might get some credibility. They only show up and protest when a white officer kills a black person. Then they don't wait for the facts before protesting; it is the racial narrative that is important. The actual facts are not important. That said, I do have serious questions about the actual facts of the shooting events in the two recent incidents. Perhaps they could have been handled differently since neither victim appears to be violent person.
25
Are YOU showing up in Las Vegas protesting similar issues in your town? And there are plenty POC that have been screaming for decades (and more) about these issues. But this ain't a BLACK problem. This is an AMERICAN problem. Until we understand that as a country, we will not make the strides forward to solving these complex problems.
The man who was shot in Baton Rouge attracted police with call that a man had threatened someone with a gun. The man had a number of felony convictions and was not allowed to possess a gun. His resistance then to the police would have been a reaction to knowing he was going to be arrested for having one on him.
I wish writers would stop whitewashing (no pun) this guy. He had a number of felony convictions including illegal possession of a firearm and was a registered sex offender. He may have had five children but he was supporting none of them, not on what he was making selling bootleg CDs. He was living in a low income room for $90 week by himself.
Armed or not if you wrestle or fight with a cop you will probably be shot. The cop will take no chance that you will overpower him and take his gun and kill him.
As a disabled senior citizen with no ability to run or even twist my body and raise my arms to fight back my first choice is to disable you from hurting me. I will shoot you before you make me unable to do so. I understand the cop's position completely.
I wish writers would stop whitewashing (no pun) this guy. He had a number of felony convictions including illegal possession of a firearm and was a registered sex offender. He may have had five children but he was supporting none of them, not on what he was making selling bootleg CDs. He was living in a low income room for $90 week by himself.
Armed or not if you wrestle or fight with a cop you will probably be shot. The cop will take no chance that you will overpower him and take his gun and kill him.
As a disabled senior citizen with no ability to run or even twist my body and raise my arms to fight back my first choice is to disable you from hurting me. I will shoot you before you make me unable to do so. I understand the cop's position completely.
As a "white" person, I did not initially consider BLM credible because it seemed to use any altercation between white cop-black person as evidence of targeted police brutality against blacks. It's fact specific and some of the videos that have emerged over the past couple years are clearly evidence of BLM's central message: disparate racial treatment by police. So as a "white" person I'm here to say I get it, I think there IS a minority of cops out there who have no business being police officers, who do reflexively (if not intentionally) react to black people in a deadly manner, and as a civilized democratic society we have to solve this problem. I support BLM to the extent that it treats these incidents as fact-specific and does not broadly categorize all police officers as racist and "out to get" black people, which is not accurate. Further, it would add to BLM's credibility and mainstream support to acknowledge that these incidents are not happening in a vacuum: it is statistical fact that blacks are disproportionately the perpetrators and victims of violent crime in our society (our President's words); and the population has unfettered/insanely regulated access to guns. I think BLM has to broaden its focus.
51
So whites are angelic and perfect, and there are zero white-on-white homicides? The FBI numbers record it, but it is never referred to. Homicide is a crime, but crimes done by individuals must never blanket an entire race of people.
I do not remember white people accepting guilt for Dylann Roof, for example.
After last week, it is time for these broad-brush statements to end.
I do not remember white people accepting guilt for Dylann Roof, for example.
After last week, it is time for these broad-brush statements to end.
As an (elderly) white man I am daily subject of police profiling and women at public places acting in "stranger male danger" ways which are not exactly pleasant and at time insulting to me.
But one of the "privilege" being (white) men is the fact that police and women see us as disproportionally likely offenders, thus profiling.
White men are 9-times as likely than white women to commit violent criminal acts, thus profiling makes (policing and also economic) sense.
Yet there are no activists, no marches, no protests, no riots, not city block burning, no TV pundits protesting profiling of (white) men.
When black men are 6-times more likely than the general (male) population to commit violent crimes, can police profiling and women "stranger danger" defensive precaution make sense?
But one of the "privilege" being (white) men is the fact that police and women see us as disproportionally likely offenders, thus profiling.
White men are 9-times as likely than white women to commit violent criminal acts, thus profiling makes (policing and also economic) sense.
Yet there are no activists, no marches, no protests, no riots, not city block burning, no TV pundits protesting profiling of (white) men.
When black men are 6-times more likely than the general (male) population to commit violent crimes, can police profiling and women "stranger danger" defensive precaution make sense?
Many blacks perceive police as the keepers of the ghettos and that, therefore, no police action is justified.
In Toronto, only a few days ago, Black Lives Matters leadership highjacked the Toronto "Pride" parade with a list of demands including one that no more police floats be permitted in the parade. (Pride referring to LGBTQ people.)
BLM members sat down in the middle of the parade and would not allow the event to continue until the leaders of Pride capitulated and agreed to a list of demands including one to eliminate any representation of Police Pride in the parade.
Pride has worked for years to develop a healthy relationship with law enforcement and to support openly gay officers who are an enormous benefit to any community. LGBT people and people of color are all represented on the force and the police floats in the Pride parade represent significant progress in the community. The BLM demand that LGBT police may not be represented - and their hostile commandeering of a Pride event shows a side of the leadership that simply cannot be ignored.
BLM members sat down in the middle of the parade and would not allow the event to continue until the leaders of Pride capitulated and agreed to a list of demands including one to eliminate any representation of Police Pride in the parade.
Pride has worked for years to develop a healthy relationship with law enforcement and to support openly gay officers who are an enormous benefit to any community. LGBT people and people of color are all represented on the force and the police floats in the Pride parade represent significant progress in the community. The BLM demand that LGBT police may not be represented - and their hostile commandeering of a Pride event shows a side of the leadership that simply cannot be ignored.
45
It would be a great mistake to conflate the goals of Black Lives Matter with the actions of the sniper in Dallas --- as one man's deranged act does not extinguish, or lessen the efficacy of the movement in any way.
This is not an excuse for the tragic deaths of those police officers.
But until the entire law enforcement community recognizes that it is time for a systemic overhaul of their methods among people of color, these problems are guaranteed to persist, and possibly even escalate.
The time to act is now.
This is not an excuse for the tragic deaths of those police officers.
But until the entire law enforcement community recognizes that it is time for a systemic overhaul of their methods among people of color, these problems are guaranteed to persist, and possibly even escalate.
The time to act is now.
38
The problem with your premises is that you expect that the majority in this country-meaning the Caucasians,to see the problems through the eyes of the Black minority.And they don't.Rightfully or wrongly, they do not believe or perceive there is problem to the proportions Blacks feel there is.What they see along with other ehtnics is that the Black communities in this country are going to hell.From the most basic unit,the family,to whole communities filled with blight and extremely high crime areas.The most obvious example is Chicago,but not the whole city which is thriving,but the area inhabited by African Americans where the 4th of July weekend,60 people were shot.Again in an area consisting of predominantly Blacks.It is hard to convince a majority to supposedly put your house in order when the minority's has been in total chaos for many years.And that majority, through its institutions,has provided that minority in the nation with many opportunities to get ahead.I do not believe there has been another nation in the world that has done so much to try to incorrect the injustices done to Blacks over 150 yrs ago along with the laws and carved out opportunities for them.Racism will never be completely removed amongst us.But ramming down the throats of the majority a dishonest agenda like BLM is not going to help either.
How many times in many BLM protests participants chant "Do we want to kill Pigs?" "We want it now!"? etc.
Wrong. The BLM has been compromised by hateful and violent factions. It needs to be abandoned and reconstituted with a different name and far better control of its goals and message.
Peaceful protest may well be necessary at times, when the laws themselves institutionalize injustice.
But protest is only successful if it leads to dialogue, and finally, to a change in policy.
The big difference I see between now and the 60s is that in the 60s there were LEADERS, both on the side advocating for change (MLK Jr. for example) and those in a political position implement it (LBJ). Once the people got attention through protest, then the leaders met and negotiated positive change, through changes in the law.
There need to be politicians to take up the cause of equal treatment under the law.
Protesting is not enough.
But protest is only successful if it leads to dialogue, and finally, to a change in policy.
The big difference I see between now and the 60s is that in the 60s there were LEADERS, both on the side advocating for change (MLK Jr. for example) and those in a political position implement it (LBJ). Once the people got attention through protest, then the leaders met and negotiated positive change, through changes in the law.
There need to be politicians to take up the cause of equal treatment under the law.
Protesting is not enough.
44
Obviously there are no leaders who have the courage, conviction or ethical compass to challenge the police system, especially when they rely on the police and police unions. What happened when Deblasio said something? The NY police literally turned their backs to him.
How many police have been convicted for anything over the past 4 years?
This is why movements like this arise and will continue to arise. There is a vacuum of leaders who actually speak out and defend the most vulnerable in our society. When that is the case, people arise to seize their own power.
Secondly, BLM understands what happens to outspoken black leaders (like Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Fred Hampton). They get assassinated. As 'peaceful' as MLK was, he was killed, his killer never found.
It doesn't matter if one protests and agitates peacefully or more aggressively, the politically passive population in this country isn't going to like it and will have all kinds of reasons to sit back and wait for something to happen and maintain the status quo.
How many police have been convicted for anything over the past 4 years?
This is why movements like this arise and will continue to arise. There is a vacuum of leaders who actually speak out and defend the most vulnerable in our society. When that is the case, people arise to seize their own power.
Secondly, BLM understands what happens to outspoken black leaders (like Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Fred Hampton). They get assassinated. As 'peaceful' as MLK was, he was killed, his killer never found.
It doesn't matter if one protests and agitates peacefully or more aggressively, the politically passive population in this country isn't going to like it and will have all kinds of reasons to sit back and wait for something to happen and maintain the status quo.
It took well over a decade of civil rights protests to make a significant difference - and 60 years later we still aren't there.
1
In the 60s the country was run by Republicans and Democrats who tended to be center right. We also had a media that was mostly center right.
Today we have Republicans who are right to far right and Democrats who are left to far left. And we have a media that is mostly left.
In short, in the 60s most people were center ground. Today the center ground is missing.
Today we have Republicans who are right to far right and Democrats who are left to far left. And we have a media that is mostly left.
In short, in the 60s most people were center ground. Today the center ground is missing.
The average police officer in the United States never fires his weapon In the line of duty. Despite what the media is screaming I think the cops who are genuine racists are few and far between. But I do think that most are poorly trained.
Police MUST be trained, and tested, under stress conditions, in scenarios where they are challenged to make split second decisions when identifying a threat. This could be done on live action courses where potential threats "pop up" randomly and the officer must distinguish between a thug with a gun and an innocent papa carrying a baby. They must learn to take a scenario in at a glance and immediately identify both potential threats and innocent bystanders. This training in "threat recognition" can also be be done via video simulation, much like a video game.
This training must be on-going. Officers should be required to log in time EVERY MONTH on a course with live ammo, or via video simulation. Participation should be mandatory and all scores recorded. They also need to undergo a test every year for competency in weapon handling AND capacity to accurately distinguish between threats and innocent bystanders under stress conditions.
Many departments don't require on-going testing other than proving competency with a weapon by shooting at a stationery target once a year.
No police officer goes to work thinking he's going to shoot someone that day. But every one wonders if they will be shot. We must prepare for this stressful work.
Police MUST be trained, and tested, under stress conditions, in scenarios where they are challenged to make split second decisions when identifying a threat. This could be done on live action courses where potential threats "pop up" randomly and the officer must distinguish between a thug with a gun and an innocent papa carrying a baby. They must learn to take a scenario in at a glance and immediately identify both potential threats and innocent bystanders. This training in "threat recognition" can also be be done via video simulation, much like a video game.
This training must be on-going. Officers should be required to log in time EVERY MONTH on a course with live ammo, or via video simulation. Participation should be mandatory and all scores recorded. They also need to undergo a test every year for competency in weapon handling AND capacity to accurately distinguish between threats and innocent bystanders under stress conditions.
Many departments don't require on-going testing other than proving competency with a weapon by shooting at a stationery target once a year.
No police officer goes to work thinking he's going to shoot someone that day. But every one wonders if they will be shot. We must prepare for this stressful work.
3
These are great ideas. Nothing wrong with them. Except that one idea is missing. The VERY IDEA of firing a bad cop. As if that were unthinkable.
I can't believe that things like this, all these killings, are turned into political statements. Lives are lost simply because of the color of some peoples skin, the color of a persons skin is determined by how much melanin is in it. Thats it. Melanin. The amount of it in a persons skin is determined by how close or far away from the equator that persons ancestors lived. Underneath everything political, underneath all the hate. Everyone is a person, whose life deserves to be respected. No one should be treated differently because of any outward appearance.
Based on what we have heard, the police shooting in Louisiana and Minnesota do not make sense. I am awaiting more information. The sniper did not wait for more information. He may have been acting on a well of anger built up over previous shootings. The media did not always present a full picture of the earlier shootings.
Let’s look at how the media reported on the shooting of Michael Brown. It whipped the public up into a frenzy by repeating that the police had shot an unarmed Black teenager who had given himself up by raising his arms and saying, “Don’t shoot”. Yet, the media did not make sure the public became aware of any contradictory facts, as they became known. The result is that few realize that most witnesses did not see Brown raise his hands or say, “Don’t Shoot”. Only Brown's accomplice claims he did this. Others contradict his testimony. One witness wasn’t sure. A woman who loudly corroborated the accomplice’s story, later admitted she had not seen any of the event.
Black Lives Matter formed around the Brown shooting. It sent out frequent twitter updates with the latest information. My friend carefully read every update as it came in. The twitter feed did not inform her that Brown had attempted to arm himself by reaching in the police car for a gun, with the result that it discharged. BLM withheld information that helped explain the policeman’s actions.
Chances are the sniper acted on a jumble of incorrect and incomplete information.
Let’s look at how the media reported on the shooting of Michael Brown. It whipped the public up into a frenzy by repeating that the police had shot an unarmed Black teenager who had given himself up by raising his arms and saying, “Don’t shoot”. Yet, the media did not make sure the public became aware of any contradictory facts, as they became known. The result is that few realize that most witnesses did not see Brown raise his hands or say, “Don’t Shoot”. Only Brown's accomplice claims he did this. Others contradict his testimony. One witness wasn’t sure. A woman who loudly corroborated the accomplice’s story, later admitted she had not seen any of the event.
Black Lives Matter formed around the Brown shooting. It sent out frequent twitter updates with the latest information. My friend carefully read every update as it came in. The twitter feed did not inform her that Brown had attempted to arm himself by reaching in the police car for a gun, with the result that it discharged. BLM withheld information that helped explain the policeman’s actions.
Chances are the sniper acted on a jumble of incorrect and incomplete information.
16
If the couple in that car were white, Asian, Hispanic or pretty much any ethnic group besides black American the chance for such a terrible and unplanned outcome would have been far less. If the violent crime statistics and probabilities for violent crime were not extraordinarily high for black Americans compared to all other groups the likelihood of this horrible event would have also been far less. If the standard of living and the opportunities for improving it were not extraordinarily low for black Americans, in particular (Native Americans notwithstanding), would these horrible injustices occur nearly so frequently - surely not.
This issue is complicated and where in the causal chain we stop asking why may determine our moral views on the matter.
Personally, I am saddened to see that we are becoming sucked into an emotionally charged issue that is probably over all of our heads and, therefore, theater and demogoguery will dominate this issue. This would be a unfortunate distraction from the REAL political changes we are on the brink of and that could greatly help human suffering in our country (especially black Americans, since they are among the most socioeconomically deprived) - and the world's.
This issue is complicated and where in the causal chain we stop asking why may determine our moral views on the matter.
Personally, I am saddened to see that we are becoming sucked into an emotionally charged issue that is probably over all of our heads and, therefore, theater and demogoguery will dominate this issue. This would be a unfortunate distraction from the REAL political changes we are on the brink of and that could greatly help human suffering in our country (especially black Americans, since they are among the most socioeconomically deprived) - and the world's.
6
I think we should all step back and just quietly think to ourselves about our life experiences and those in other neighborhoods, towns, and even countries. There are many commonalities, for sure. But, there are some differences that have significant and sustained effects on how we see ourselves and see others.
The role of race in our nation's history has never been the same experience for all of us. Blacks and Whites have experienced it differently, not surprisingly, since the laws, practices, and norms were designed for that end. This is historical fact that does not need to be denied.
The questions today are how and where the vestiges of centuries - yes, centuries, not just decades - of this national history continue to exist?
Again, we can deny that any vestiges remain anywhere today. But that creates a conflict in trying to explain seemingly clear contradictions among a wide array of events that occur in our nation. For example, this article from earlier this year is one of them:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/05/us/what-if-the-oregon-activists-were-b...
For a moment, just answer the question to yourself, quietly and alone. Struggle, if you will, to avoid the obvious. Then quietly allow yourself to accept the obvious and see the existence of the contradiction.
It is the contradiction, itself, that is the problem for us to tackle together. Peace.
The role of race in our nation's history has never been the same experience for all of us. Blacks and Whites have experienced it differently, not surprisingly, since the laws, practices, and norms were designed for that end. This is historical fact that does not need to be denied.
The questions today are how and where the vestiges of centuries - yes, centuries, not just decades - of this national history continue to exist?
Again, we can deny that any vestiges remain anywhere today. But that creates a conflict in trying to explain seemingly clear contradictions among a wide array of events that occur in our nation. For example, this article from earlier this year is one of them:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/05/us/what-if-the-oregon-activists-were-b...
For a moment, just answer the question to yourself, quietly and alone. Struggle, if you will, to avoid the obvious. Then quietly allow yourself to accept the obvious and see the existence of the contradiction.
It is the contradiction, itself, that is the problem for us to tackle together. Peace.
1
So long as we see the current situation as they against us or we against them, there will be no progress. In fact, things will get worse. We must look at the root cause. That cause is wealth inequality. People at the bottom of the wealth scale or in the lower middle, regardless of race, are feeling left out. They are angry, and they are justified in feeling so. Unfortunately, they are taking it out on each other rather than pointing their fingers at the real culprits: the big corporations and individuals at the top who are hoarding our nation's wealth. We need a $15 minimum wage, massive federal spending on infrastructure, research and education, increases in social welfare spending, job training for workers who have been victims of outsourcing and robotics, better public transportation, and much more government help. The anger will subside if those neglected in our society have decent-paying jobs and hope for the future. Yet the Republican philosophy calls for lowering the taxes of top earners and making the wealthy even wealthier. And make no mistake; Donald Trump is a very good Republican in this respect. Eventually the walls around gated communities won't be strong enough nor the fancy high-rises high enough to protect the ultra-rich from the wrath of our population. Police forces will not be able to keep things in control without becoming military organizations.
4
"Eventually the walls around gated communities won't be strong enough nor the fancy high-rises high enough to protect the ultra-rich from the wrath of our population. Police forces will not be able to keep things in control without becoming military organizations."
You've detailed the reason why the Middle Class has armed itself to the teeth. If the lower classes rise up to take what we have we will defend our families and property from those who think they're entitled to what we've worked for.
You've detailed the reason why the Middle Class has armed itself to the teeth. If the lower classes rise up to take what we have we will defend our families and property from those who think they're entitled to what we've worked for.
To NYHUGUENOT. Rubbish. A lot of the people who are now in the lower classes used to be in the middle class. Their jobs have disappeared. The minimum wage is so low that a full-time worker can't make a living without signing up for food stamps. If you personally are living well, you're lucky to be in some kind of a job that hasn't been outsourced or handed to robots — yet. You talk of the Middle Class. What Middle Class? There was a Middle Class in the 1950s and 1960s, It hardly exists anymore. And as for guns? Everyone has guns these days. How will having a gun be an advantage to anybody? A bigger gun, I guess? Or one that takes a hundred-round clip? Maybe we should legalize howitzers.
I'm Middle Class because I worked for it. I was self employed for 30 years. I don't depend on others to determine what I earn. I was in and yes it couldn't be out sourced.
Guns. Those who have multiples of them in various calibers will do fine. Those who have stockpiled ammunition will do well. And not everyone has guns. If you're depending on a $129 Jimenez against an #800 S&W, a $2200 AR15 and a 12 shot pump gun firing 00 buckshot you're screwed.
Guns. Those who have multiples of them in various calibers will do fine. Those who have stockpiled ammunition will do well. And not everyone has guns. If you're depending on a $129 Jimenez against an #800 S&W, a $2200 AR15 and a 12 shot pump gun firing 00 buckshot you're screwed.
This movement has become a counter-productive nuisance. Notice how its protests are the most intense in important election years? I am convinced black lives matter exists at this point solely so that the media can use it for the purpose of scaremongering with their objective being to frighten elderly white voters into voting for law and order candidates (presumably Trump this time around).
Are there problems with the way that America's inner-cities and inner-ring suburbs are policed? Yes, but there are far, far bigger problems affecting these communities than how they are policed. The media (and in particular, this newspaper) seems intent on creating the false impression that there is significant racial strife in this country. There is not, and it appears that only a hardcore set of activists and their dupes are willing to embrace this narrative. Black lives matter appears to have as its primary goals: (1) the removal of all police from America's ghettos (insanity); and (2) the right to try all police officers accused of misconduct in the court of public opinion, without due process, and without regard for the rules of evidence (just as completely insane). What would happen to America's black ghettos if they succeeded in accomplishing those goals? The criminals would completely take over and life for the people trapped in that environment would become even worse.
I give a lot of credit to Obama, who, once again, is this nation's voice of reason.
Are there problems with the way that America's inner-cities and inner-ring suburbs are policed? Yes, but there are far, far bigger problems affecting these communities than how they are policed. The media (and in particular, this newspaper) seems intent on creating the false impression that there is significant racial strife in this country. There is not, and it appears that only a hardcore set of activists and their dupes are willing to embrace this narrative. Black lives matter appears to have as its primary goals: (1) the removal of all police from America's ghettos (insanity); and (2) the right to try all police officers accused of misconduct in the court of public opinion, without due process, and without regard for the rules of evidence (just as completely insane). What would happen to America's black ghettos if they succeeded in accomplishing those goals? The criminals would completely take over and life for the people trapped in that environment would become even worse.
I give a lot of credit to Obama, who, once again, is this nation's voice of reason.
8
This movement has become a counter-productive nuisance.
funny you should say that
thats exactly what king george said about th colonial rebels
funny you should say that
thats exactly what king george said about th colonial rebels
What does it take to recognize that their are abuses on both sides?
Some of the killings by police are beyond appalling, and even more shocking is a consistent refusal to prosecute or take actions, such as better police training, accountability for officers who are unstable or abuse their uniforms, and reporting the circumstances of killings to the Department of Justice.
Similarly, the assassination of five innocent police officers shocks and appalls. And I think we do have to acknowledge that, while it wasn't of course behind these murders, the Black Lives Matter movement has used tactics and made inflammatory remarks that contributed to a climate of hatred and mistrust.
The innocent must never be killed, whether they are black or white, civilian or police.
Some of the killings by police are beyond appalling, and even more shocking is a consistent refusal to prosecute or take actions, such as better police training, accountability for officers who are unstable or abuse their uniforms, and reporting the circumstances of killings to the Department of Justice.
Similarly, the assassination of five innocent police officers shocks and appalls. And I think we do have to acknowledge that, while it wasn't of course behind these murders, the Black Lives Matter movement has used tactics and made inflammatory remarks that contributed to a climate of hatred and mistrust.
The innocent must never be killed, whether they are black or white, civilian or police.
21
Why are so many insisting on not focusing on the real point? It is not the black community versus the police. It is all communities against bad policing. Bad policing, by poorly trained, biased, inexperience -- whatever-- is the problem. Once you focus on bad policing, then you can begin to isolate and address the root cause(s). Sometimes it might be training, other times it might be biased (intentional or cultural) perspectives.
We are screaming out a false dichotomy which leads down a path of no solution. Can we not all agree that bad policing is the problem, not police per se?
We are screaming out a false dichotomy which leads down a path of no solution. Can we not all agree that bad policing is the problem, not police per se?
2
JM, I think there are several issues here. Certainly, bad policing affects people of all races, and so the solution will, in part, affect all races.
At the same time, a recent study found that black Americans are at greater risk of being killed by the police, even when higher levels of crime are taken into account. That becomes an issue of racial equity.
Here, I think, we lack crucial information regarding the behavior of the person who was killed. It's no secret that many (not all) of these cases involve people who resisted arrest or otherwise exhibited bizarre or dangerous behavior. It is possible that irresponsible behavior accounts for some of the discrepancy.
However, I also think that, if we're realistic, we'll acknowledge that a certain amount of profiling goes on -- and that fear on the part of both black and white police officers, of black violence may play a role in their willingness to pull the trigger.
The upshot I think is that we can't ignore race, and that it's natural that people in the black community would be upset by these incidents and other aspects of police behavior -- we've seen, in cases such as Abner Louima, Simi Valley, and the Ferguson ticketing scandal that the killings are just the tip of the iceberg.
At the same time, a recent study found that black Americans are at greater risk of being killed by the police, even when higher levels of crime are taken into account. That becomes an issue of racial equity.
Here, I think, we lack crucial information regarding the behavior of the person who was killed. It's no secret that many (not all) of these cases involve people who resisted arrest or otherwise exhibited bizarre or dangerous behavior. It is possible that irresponsible behavior accounts for some of the discrepancy.
However, I also think that, if we're realistic, we'll acknowledge that a certain amount of profiling goes on -- and that fear on the part of both black and white police officers, of black violence may play a role in their willingness to pull the trigger.
The upshot I think is that we can't ignore race, and that it's natural that people in the black community would be upset by these incidents and other aspects of police behavior -- we've seen, in cases such as Abner Louima, Simi Valley, and the Ferguson ticketing scandal that the killings are just the tip of the iceberg.
2
What does it take? An open mind and the ability to filter propaganda and think for ourselves.
2
BLM is what Martin Luther King called a monologue. The reason it fails is because it operates under an assumption that "white America" isn't listening and until BLM believes that "white America" is listening, they will continue to block roadways and create the kind of havoc that undermines the possibility of a dialogue. Lets forget for the moment that "white America" is a figment of their imagination - which it is, even if it did exist there will never come a day when the people who think like this will ever believe that their "white antagonists" are listening. Never. Because tragic mistakes by police will continue to occur until we address the issues that lead a disproportionate number of blacks to commit violent crimes and murder. Its either that or we give up policing all together and just let those who can afford it pay for it.
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By that I assume that you mean the centuries of oppression that have viewed blacks as less human, less worthy, and thereby kept blacks in impoverished communities with few opportunities for decent education, meaningful - or any - work, decent housing without exposure to lead poisoning of children in particular or other environmental toxins, lack of health care, etc.? Because it's inaccurate and offensive to "address the issues that lead a disproportionate number of blacks to commit violent crimes and murder" if that is based on an assumption that a certain population is genetically or otherwise simply more violent, more inclined to crime, etc., etc.
2
Jim, I am listening to a lot of white people who clearly aren't listening, and to my shame and distress too many of them are people I know.
Non-white voices need to be heard, understood and acknowledged. Abolishing separate but equal public facilities is too 50's; we need less lip service and more color-blindness. And we need police less trigger-happy - I don't know what part of this is caused by racism, and what part by fear but it has got to stop.
Non-white voices need to be heard, understood and acknowledged. Abolishing separate but equal public facilities is too 50's; we need less lip service and more color-blindness. And we need police less trigger-happy - I don't know what part of this is caused by racism, and what part by fear but it has got to stop.
2
Whites AREN'T listening because they don't care. If they did, we wouldn't have more police killings & a lone gunman in Dallas who snapped - period.
This has nothing to do with BLM. That line of thinking is a symptom of racism. It suggests all blacks folks are alike and thusly act in concert with one another.
White people do not represent every other white person. Why should PoC and Muslims?
White people do not represent every other white person. Why should PoC and Muslims?
19
Throughout history did no group of engage in violence to fight for their mistreatment? Think about the way people thought in previous decades. It's still the same now.
1
This so called mis-treatment is greatly exaggerated.
It is not only conservatives who feel this way. Most liberals believe this too. Along with many blacks.
It is not only conservatives who feel this way. Most liberals believe this too. Along with many blacks.
4
for decades some in the police forces across this country seemed to believe that they were entitled to kill any Black person they wanted with impunity.
So sure were they of getting away with murders, most did not bother to vary their explanation for why they killed unarmed Black men for instance. The brutes always coming after them with murderous intent.
Their pat explanations for clearly questionable killings further dehumanized and demonized Black men making it easier to rationalize further killings by police.
Those with white skin privilege believed the police--There were so many killings because there were so many Black predators out there..
Those gleefully jumping on the band wagon to blame a move ment that is protesting the killings of unarmed Black citizens, reveals the ugliness of a type of racist thinking and belief that Black lives are unworthy of such attention and passion.
Those politicians who seek to further this false, corrupt narrative , for their own ends, do so to keep the status quo and obscure the true focus, which is to stop police from killing Black people for no reason.
So sure were they of getting away with murders, most did not bother to vary their explanation for why they killed unarmed Black men for instance. The brutes always coming after them with murderous intent.
Their pat explanations for clearly questionable killings further dehumanized and demonized Black men making it easier to rationalize further killings by police.
Those with white skin privilege believed the police--There were so many killings because there were so many Black predators out there..
Those gleefully jumping on the band wagon to blame a move ment that is protesting the killings of unarmed Black citizens, reveals the ugliness of a type of racist thinking and belief that Black lives are unworthy of such attention and passion.
Those politicians who seek to further this false, corrupt narrative , for their own ends, do so to keep the status quo and obscure the true focus, which is to stop police from killing Black people for no reason.
16
Both sides need to chill out. No conflicts are getting resolved by the current anger and tactics. All American lives matter and need to be equally treasured and respected.
23
This is a very on point article. Black Lives Matter is an aggressive group and its rhetoric is designed to get people riled up, especially those looking for an excuse to do so.
According to gov statistics, you are 42x more likely to be raped than be a victim of police brutality with similar odds for dying in a car crash. BLM does not have much of a leg to stand on besides high profile cases that indeed deserve justice. The group just wants to be heard more than achieving a defined goals; its a mob.
According to gov statistics, you are 42x more likely to be raped than be a victim of police brutality with similar odds for dying in a car crash. BLM does not have much of a leg to stand on besides high profile cases that indeed deserve justice. The group just wants to be heard more than achieving a defined goals; its a mob.
42
"According to gov statistics, you are 42x more likely to be raped than be a victim of police brutality with similar odds for dying in a car crash."
What a non-sequitor. So because rape and car crashes are problems, we should ignore police brutality? You are thousands of times more likely to die of heart disease than from a terrorist attack; I guess we should just ignore terrorism, then, right? You are the mob, friend.
What a non-sequitor. So because rape and car crashes are problems, we should ignore police brutality? You are thousands of times more likely to die of heart disease than from a terrorist attack; I guess we should just ignore terrorism, then, right? You are the mob, friend.
"You are thousands of times more likely to die of heart disease than from a terrorist attack;"
It has been said that in the final analysis, all deaths are the result of a heart attack.
It has been said that in the final analysis, all deaths are the result of a heart attack.
1
BLM owes its existence to a dishonest narrative about Ferguson, which quickly spun into an even more dishonest narrative that cops everywhere are dangerous to black people. Despite the absence of any data supporting the notion, that resonates with people who perceive the world as either victims or victimizers and there are just enough bad cops around to keep the pot boiling. The problem is that it also distorts the dialogue and spins people up unnecessarily, from this racist nut in Dallas to an Ivy League-educated black friend who has put a good bit of effort on social media into trying to put the murders of those cops into some sort of rational context.
There is racism in this country, but dealing with it dishonestly, including advocating for or at least trying to rationalize violence, is counterproductive.
There is racism in this country, but dealing with it dishonestly, including advocating for or at least trying to rationalize violence, is counterproductive.
217
I think many don't condone the kind of violence that occurred in Dallas, yet at the same time understand why we have reached this boiling point.
Some people like to bring up the Ferguson case as the creation of a false narrative of police misconduct, but how many other incidents of police brutality have there been besides the Ferguson case? Movements could easily have been started around those incidents also.
Some people like to bring up the Ferguson case as the creation of a false narrative of police misconduct, but how many other incidents of police brutality have there been besides the Ferguson case? Movements could easily have been started around those incidents also.
1
Besides the fact that according to the Washinton Post 73% of police shootings are white or Hispanic or other.
But most violent crime is black. People would listen to BLM if they acknowledged this. But they are focused on political advantage rather than truth. Which is why their message is lost on most. Even liberals.
But most violent crime is black. People would listen to BLM if they acknowledged this. But they are focused on political advantage rather than truth. Which is why their message is lost on most. Even liberals.
6
Then, how so?
The real question is why has this not happened long before? And are we really surprised that a target group, however misguided, begins to fight back? While it is tragic that the targets were innocent and the force they belonged to sounds exemplary, are we really surprised?
The police in this country are out of control. Most of us are racists to some degree, no matter how liberal our viewpoints, but this does not condone the death of two Black people a day, every day, in this country. This may be just the beginning unless things change and change fast. The Warsaw ghetto comes to mind.
The police in this country are out of control. Most of us are racists to some degree, no matter how liberal our viewpoints, but this does not condone the death of two Black people a day, every day, in this country. This may be just the beginning unless things change and change fast. The Warsaw ghetto comes to mind.
10
The Warsaw Ghetto comes to mind only to those who know nothing about the Warsaw Ghetto. Black Lives Matter is not fighting an occupying force of Nazis who are starving vast numbers of people to death even as they systematically deport almost 300,000 of them to death camps. Another instance of an ignorant (or malicious) individual "borrowing" the Holocaust to promote a cause, thereby diminishing the enormity of that crime.
9
JM - "The police in this country are out of control."
That's exactly the erroneous and bigoted kind of thinking that creates riots and gets people killed. Would the corollary to your bigoted statement be "Blacks in this country are out of control"?
That's exactly the erroneous and bigoted kind of thinking that creates riots and gets people killed. Would the corollary to your bigoted statement be "Blacks in this country are out of control"?
2
Why does the Black lives Matter crowd claim as their poster victims people who are shown to be violent and have a thorough disregard for the law? Trayvon Martin was no innocent little boy just walking back from the store to buy candy. He was a budding thug who bought and sold guns and lost a fight he started and could have walked away from. Michael Brown was another bully who tried to take a cop's gun after attacking him in his patrol car. He had just committed strong arm robbery against a man much smaller than he was. These "victims" are no Rosa Parks.
BLM has its origins in violence and it continues under a facade of peaceful protest.
BLM has its origins in violence and it continues under a facade of peaceful protest.
130
That's not completely true. Treyvon Martin was coming back from a convenience store and bothering nobody. The cops told Zimmerman to let them handle it - Zimmerman ignored them and was responsible for whatever happened. Martin was shot with Zimmerman's gun. It was in no way justified.
Michael Brown is another matter. The media insists on calling him an "unarmed teenager" - but he was a six foot four, aggressive, 300 pound dude who attacked a cop sitting in his patrol car and tried to take his gun. He wasn't "shot while being black" - he was shot while being an idiot.
People have a right to be upset about some of these killings. But there is no agenda to do anything about it. It's just social media frenzy.
Michael Brown is another matter. The media insists on calling him an "unarmed teenager" - but he was a six foot four, aggressive, 300 pound dude who attacked a cop sitting in his patrol car and tried to take his gun. He wasn't "shot while being black" - he was shot while being an idiot.
People have a right to be upset about some of these killings. But there is no agenda to do anything about it. It's just social media frenzy.
Travon Martin was not a thug, he could've possibly grown up to be a very nice person. But he did choose to hide and jump a guy who happened to have a gun. That's something that most other people of other races will not do. You don't see white guys walking through black neighborhoods jumping a black guy that might be following him. He could've went home and he'd still alive . I wish he had done that.
1
How dare you say that about Trayvon Martin. His killer has had numerous other issues since then. You have completely nullified your credibility with your remarks.
Human beings act based on past experience. Would it not be productive to investigate what was the collective past experience in a similar situation of the officer who shot Mr Castile? Did the officer feel threatened for his life based on past experience? Was he fearful that he would not return to his own family? No one is asking these questions.
5
This is a good point. The officer's lawyer says this stop was more complicated than a mere traffic stop. In what way? But, to be fair, what were Mr. Castile's experiences with cops? He had been stopped a huge amount of times before. But he had been driving on a suspended license etc. so not all just a mere headlight. The officer is Latino, a college graduate, a married father--so, judging by good recruiting standards he might seem ideal, at least on paper. Many commenters on the NYT pages have said only college grads should be hired for police work. How was he trained? What rules of engagement was he taught? The live stream started in the midst of the interaction and Mr. Castile's gf spoke. What actually happened before? Then again, what other stereotypes may the officer have had? Would he have used more caution and used force more quickly because Mr. Castile was black? Or would he have reacted similarly if he were Latino, say?
This in no way justifies inappropriate use of lethal force but we will not learn unless we ask such questions. We also will not know the more complete picture unless we let the investigation run. Mr. Castile's death certainly appears unjustified by any measure now but we do need to learn from it.
This in no way justifies inappropriate use of lethal force but we will not learn unless we ask such questions. We also will not know the more complete picture unless we let the investigation run. Mr. Castile's death certainly appears unjustified by any measure now but we do need to learn from it.
1
The Aristotelian method of learning by classifying and categorizing over the past two thousand years has greatly speed the learning process when differentiating igneous versus metamorphosis rock or canaries versus crocodiles, but when individuality greatly outweighs the genetics of race, religious belief or whatever, well, you see the problem of biasing individuals as having the same tendencies. Not every [fill in the blank] is a serial killer or saint, but just considering the method we use for learning the roots of prejudice are deeply ingrained in our culture and extremely difficult to change.
The intent of "Black Lives Matter" is well understood, but still highlights the underlying issue: Separation. Latino lives matter, gay lives matter, white lives matter, etc. or in short "All lives Matter". We need to stop using the words "us" or "them", or others that imply the same. We need to use the words "we" or "all" and the like as we all live together on this same planet.
Politicians choosing what they call "Party" over their constituents are not leading us down the best path, but the one the benefits them the most - just another version of "us" or "them". Instead, vote for the ones that believe the word "we [the people]".
The intent of "Black Lives Matter" is well understood, but still highlights the underlying issue: Separation. Latino lives matter, gay lives matter, white lives matter, etc. or in short "All lives Matter". We need to stop using the words "us" or "them", or others that imply the same. We need to use the words "we" or "all" and the like as we all live together on this same planet.
Politicians choosing what they call "Party" over their constituents are not leading us down the best path, but the one the benefits them the most - just another version of "us" or "them". Instead, vote for the ones that believe the word "we [the people]".
9
All Black Lives Matter is saying is that blacks are real people too. So much has come to light not only about mass incarceration of black males and the killing of blacks by the police but the fact that those in authority get away with just about anything for these actions. When you add in what has come to light about tainted water in Flint and the indifference the mainly black citizens received; blacks deliberately getting higher mortgage rates; segregation in schools; the contempt expressed towards President Obama; and the list goes on - you have a recipe for helplessness, hopelessness, anger, and rage. That can lead to lashing out, riots, and innocent lives and property lost.
Those 'blessed' with white privilege can no longer express sadness at what has been happening and then go on with their lives. In the words of Eldridge Cleaver: There is no more neutrality in the world. You either have to be part of the solution or you are going to be part of the problem.
Blacks and Whites must work together to find solutions. Where is a Martin Luther King when you need him or her?
MLK said: “It may well be that we will have to repent in this generation. Not merely for the vitriolic words and the violent actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence and indifference of the good people who sit around and say, "Wait on time.”
Those 'blessed' with white privilege can no longer express sadness at what has been happening and then go on with their lives. In the words of Eldridge Cleaver: There is no more neutrality in the world. You either have to be part of the solution or you are going to be part of the problem.
Blacks and Whites must work together to find solutions. Where is a Martin Luther King when you need him or her?
MLK said: “It may well be that we will have to repent in this generation. Not merely for the vitriolic words and the violent actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence and indifference of the good people who sit around and say, "Wait on time.”
27
Instead of MLK we have Trump - I cannot imagine anything more frightening than a Trump presidency in the current climate.
1
If BLM is really saying Black Lives Matter too, then they would have named the organization BLMT. While many people do believe All Lives Matter, there are many in the Black Lives Matter movement who are filled with hate toward white people.
It would be so easy to change the name of the organization to BLMT that even a child could understand the logic.
It would be so easy to change the name of the organization to BLMT that even a child could understand the logic.
1
Th n why not rename th group "All Lives Matter " ? That certainly would imply that other races are not being excluded .
The rampant proliferation of GUNS has turned America into a battle field. Why are some of these "warriors" who served in Iraq and Afghanistan so determined to have war at home? Some have joined local law enforcement and we have ramped-up militia-style "swat" teams and tanks in our streets. It is preposterous. My son-in-law served in combat in both Iraq and Afghanistan and he will not have guns in the house. It is insane that WE allow the proliferation of guns to continue and it's beyond belief that every law enforcement officer in America isn't behind the movement to get guns off the streets. I was astounded a couple of weeks ago to hear the King County, WA sheriff essentially say "Guns are a reality - there is nothing we can do to stop more guns in America." Oh Yes There IS. The shooting in Dallas proved without question that "good guys with a gun" don't stop bad guys with a gun and WE can vote only for people who want to seriously regulate guns in public.
Gun lovers - get rid or your guns. Turn them into artwork or simply melt them down. WE do not want your guns. WE want your guns to stop killing us.
Gun lovers - get rid or your guns. Turn them into artwork or simply melt them down. WE do not want your guns. WE want your guns to stop killing us.
64
If you do not want a gun, don't buy one. Don't tell those of us who are 100% law abiding, cautious and responsible gun owners to "turn them into artwork". Last time I checked, owning a LEGAL gun is LEGAL in the US.
5
People in France have no guns, it did nothing to stop a mass shooting terrorist attack, wake up. During their revolution, Afghan fighters made guns capable of firing AK47 ammo with tools less sophisticated than I could buy at Sears, wake up.
The police in the US are vastly out numbered and out gunned by the citizenry; nothing wrong with reminding them now and then. Governments should be afraid of their people.
The police in the US are vastly out numbered and out gunned by the citizenry; nothing wrong with reminding them now and then. Governments should be afraid of their people.
3
If Black (or any) lives matter, why do we have more guns than people in the US? And why is our government supporting the NRA, who encourages citizens to take up arms against our government?
32
It's called the constitution. You can't pick and choose which ones you obey and which ones you don't. Congress has the ability to amend it but there's a reason they don't. They would be voted out in a heartbeat. Guns don't kill. It's the idiots who fire the gun.
1
You go, Laurie. Really, no lives matter, as we keep seeing over and over. Money matters. Power matters. Control matters. Lives, us poor human meat bags, we do not matter. We the People have ceased to matter.
If draft-dodging, Oxycontin-gobbling, multiply-married, racist, misogynist Rush Limbaugh says Black Lives Matter is a "terrorist group committing hate crimes," it must be written-down-in-stone fact. He does have his followers. Sadly, they are not that few in number. I would venture Texas AG Dan Patrick shares many of Limbaugh's beliefs. You don't hear Gov. Abbott contradicting him, either.
Let us not forget that protest is the cornerstone on which this nation was built. As irritating as it may be to someone trying to get to the theater on time to catch the start of the show or the liquor store before it closes to be delayed and miss their chances, the right of protest must be protected, or America is reneging on its foundation.
Let us not forget that protest is the cornerstone on which this nation was built. As irritating as it may be to someone trying to get to the theater on time to catch the start of the show or the liquor store before it closes to be delayed and miss their chances, the right of protest must be protected, or America is reneging on its foundation.
22
You obviously have never listened to Rush Limbaugh and get all your views from the left wing media. Do some research before you spew your hatred. You may learn something. It always amazes me that Rush, the GOP etc. spew hate and bigotry but then people turn around and post and say hate speech such as this and it is somehow righteous. Everyone seems to think they can spew hatred but others cannot. Maybe no one should, huh? Sounds like a good starting point to me.
1
Chuck, I have listened to Limbaugh. My opinion is derived from that. He is a draft dodger. He was (not saying he is) dependent on highly addictive narcotics. He's had his share of wives and then some. He does spout racist rhetoric that is devoured by skinheads, among others. His treatment of a young woman who testified before a congressional committee about her medical necessity for birth control pills unrelated to the desire to not get pregnant, was ill-mannered, ill-informed, and yes, misogynistic.
1
Black Live Matter has collided with Police Lives Matter.
This is at the heart of the equation of justice. BOTH matter and the equation will be solved only when in fact and in deed, and in the eyes of ALL Americas, the law delivers justice fairly and equally for all, without regard to race or rank (and other labels that divide America through "politics").
This is at the heart of the equation of justice. BOTH matter and the equation will be solved only when in fact and in deed, and in the eyes of ALL Americas, the law delivers justice fairly and equally for all, without regard to race or rank (and other labels that divide America through "politics").
13
Right on. But also EVERY death at the hands of police are not murder. Just because one is of a certain color does not mean they are without guilt. Why does it seem some think they can try to wrestle with the police and run from or at them and there should be no consequences? Why I absolutely believe in holding rogue police accountable, I also believe in holding thugs and law breakers accountable.
2
Sorta sad to see some overtly racist comments here about blacks...These are difficult times. I feel the BLM has its role in pointing out the senseless and needless killings of black men by cops. Their seemingly anti white rhetoric at times puts me off but I learned in the late 60's that their anger is based in experience...I thought we had moved on since then. Not all white people are racists and not all blacks are thugs or on welfare....We are all people not stereotypes...and all of us deserve justice if a crime is committed against us.
43
Absolutely. Well said.
Agree too many generalizations...
I respect the BLM protesters right to protest until they cross the line:
Destroying property, looting, rioting, blocking public streets without prior approval of city.
I respect the BLM protesters right to protest until they cross the line:
Destroying property, looting, rioting, blocking public streets without prior approval of city.
2
Why does this "experience" you speak of justify the hatred and racism of BLM members while we expect cops to ignore actual statistics about who commits violent crimes in this country?
BLM was gaining ground? Black people are still being shot by police, for no reason, and the police perpetrating these atrocities are still getting off with zero repercussions. What happened in Dallas was necessary and inevitable; "Justice and Equality cannot be given, a man must take those things for himself." Malcolm X
Your peaceful protests have, and will continue to, accomplish nothing. Maybe it's time to take what is needed instead of asking for it.
Your peaceful protests have, and will continue to, accomplish nothing. Maybe it's time to take what is needed instead of asking for it.
3
Advocating more senseless violent murders is not the answer and will only fill our prisons at quicker rate. But your statements may give some insight as to why too many black communities are filled with black on black crime and murders. Maybe it's time to change that message.
2
Kevin, that is dangerous thinking. We must remain a civilized society with rules of law to guide it. We have been fighting racism since slavery and it will be within our arc of history to continue to overcome heart by heart, day by day. You are selling anarchy here so watch out!
3
And police officers, black and white, are being shot by people, both black and white. Time for it all to stop.
1
Seems to me that BLM is "tone deaf", and is incapable to go beyond shouting at anybody who is not black. They live in their own bubble, they really believe that just demonstrating, shouting at the police and stopping traffic will work.
On the other side are conservatives, who are just as tone deaf and some may really be racists.
However, racism is not a one way street.
But the elephant in the room is too many guns, gun culture and the NRA and GOP politicians.
We will always have prejudice and racism, but without guns more people will live. But in the current political climate, I expect more violence.
On the other side are conservatives, who are just as tone deaf and some may really be racists.
However, racism is not a one way street.
But the elephant in the room is too many guns, gun culture and the NRA and GOP politicians.
We will always have prejudice and racism, but without guns more people will live. But in the current political climate, I expect more violence.
34
No. Without guns only the criminals and warped minded will have guns.
2
I heard the cofounder of BLM say that there would be no peace until blacks have a better chance of graduating from college that being killed by police. with ridiculous statements like this BLM cannot be taken seriously.
1
Gingi Adam: I agreed with everything you said but for the first paragraph. If BLM doesn't march and protest, how is this carnage going to stop? It takes a big person to stand up for the rights of others that differ from yourself in skin color, spiritual beliefs, and gender identity. I think this is your moment to rise above your own biases and empathize. Place yourself in the shoes of African-Americans and what they face every day in big ways and more subtle, dangerous ways like indifference to their plight.
1
Lt. Gov Patrick's statement that "These are real people" implies that all the young Black men erroneously killed by police were not. They are all real people: the officers and the young Black men killed by police.
We have national initiatives to go into space and to cure cancer, what we need is a national task force to address racism in this country. Police killings are a symptom of this chronic, systemic disease that is killing young Black men. Loretta Lynch could lead, and it should include Black people, Caucasian people, Republicans & Democrats.
We have national initiatives to go into space and to cure cancer, what we need is a national task force to address racism in this country. Police killings are a symptom of this chronic, systemic disease that is killing young Black men. Loretta Lynch could lead, and it should include Black people, Caucasian people, Republicans & Democrats.
18
the implication pf Patrick's statement is that the Dallas snipers regarded police officers as symbols of racial oppression, not individual human beings.
3
You do know that more Caucasians were killed by police guns last year (2015) than African Americans ? The reason the whites aren't marching is because they are acknowledging responsibility for disobeying police orders for those who lost their life (most of them ) -almost every video I've watched of young African Americans tragically losing their life at the hands of police was because of not respecting the badge .
1
Two things are troubling. (1) That so many people, including some in positions of leadership, seem to be suggesting that the police go to work each day with plans to murder black males. (2) The loquacious girl friend of Mr. Castile lost her voice and her eloquence on CNN, when Mr. Cuomo asked her earlier this week, to describe what happened before Officer Yanez opened fire.
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"That so many people, including some in positions of leadership, seem to be suggesting that the police go to work each day with plans to murder black males. "
Who exactly is suggesting that the police wake up and say "I'm going to lynch a negro today?" No one. Just because the police are not premeditating murder in the morning does not give them a free pass to "shoot first, ask questions later", nor does it mean that all uses of deadly force by the police are justifiable, and that none are homicide. Learn to think for yourself. There should be a strong presumption against the use of deadly force by the police, and the onus should be on the police officer to prove that the use of deadly force was justified to avoid being charged with homicide, rather than vice versa. Otherwise we are living in a barbarian, totalitarian state. Police do not have the right to shoot people out of "mere suspicion" or "hunches."
Who exactly is suggesting that the police wake up and say "I'm going to lynch a negro today?" No one. Just because the police are not premeditating murder in the morning does not give them a free pass to "shoot first, ask questions later", nor does it mean that all uses of deadly force by the police are justifiable, and that none are homicide. Learn to think for yourself. There should be a strong presumption against the use of deadly force by the police, and the onus should be on the police officer to prove that the use of deadly force was justified to avoid being charged with homicide, rather than vice versa. Otherwise we are living in a barbarian, totalitarian state. Police do not have the right to shoot people out of "mere suspicion" or "hunches."
1
I have met police who went to work looking for 'stick time'. There are horrible officers out there. We have no sense of how many, and how many just go along to get along.
TruthTeller:
Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to my comment. But it appears you have not been listening carefully to some of the statements that have been made by some of those in leadership positions.
Just to put the situation in perspective. There are some three million interactions between police and civilians each day. With that large number, it is inevitable that in some of those cases, an officer will make the wrong call. What is remarkable is that cases like Minnesota and Louisiana are so rare, given the large numbers of daily interactions.
Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to my comment. But it appears you have not been listening carefully to some of the statements that have been made by some of those in leadership positions.
Just to put the situation in perspective. There are some three million interactions between police and civilians each day. With that large number, it is inevitable that in some of those cases, an officer will make the wrong call. What is remarkable is that cases like Minnesota and Louisiana are so rare, given the large numbers of daily interactions.
1
No, No, No. The violent action taken by one deranged individual should not be extrapolated to condemn his entire race. Just as terrorists who happen to be Muslim should not be confused with Muslims as a whole, Micah Johnson did not speak for anyone other than himself.
While I do not agree with all the techniques endorsed by the Black Lives Matter organizers, I wholeheartedly agree with their message. There is a huge disparity in the way people of different skin color are perceived by the police and by society as a whole. And it is only through visible protest that a change for the better will be made.
People like Rush Limbaugh and Rep. Bill Zedler are fanning the flames of hate by their blatant attempts to vilify the BLM movement. They would seem to be in favor of a continuation of the status quo where black people must remain subservient and silent. They represent the real problem.
While I do not agree with all the techniques endorsed by the Black Lives Matter organizers, I wholeheartedly agree with their message. There is a huge disparity in the way people of different skin color are perceived by the police and by society as a whole. And it is only through visible protest that a change for the better will be made.
People like Rush Limbaugh and Rep. Bill Zedler are fanning the flames of hate by their blatant attempts to vilify the BLM movement. They would seem to be in favor of a continuation of the status quo where black people must remain subservient and silent. They represent the real problem.
76
You are correct.
The same principle should apply to the cops as well.
There are close to a million cops in the USA.
Very few have killed a Black person and most who have had good reason.
So the same case can e made for the police.
The act by a individual cop should not be confused with the behavior of cops as a group.
Cops as a group statistically have treated Black People with a lot of respect.
So the act of a very few bad cops do not reflect on the behavior of cops.
The same principle should apply to the cops as well.
There are close to a million cops in the USA.
Very few have killed a Black person and most who have had good reason.
So the same case can e made for the police.
The act by a individual cop should not be confused with the behavior of cops as a group.
Cops as a group statistically have treated Black People with a lot of respect.
So the act of a very few bad cops do not reflect on the behavior of cops.
2
@stone
It is only a "very few bad cops" who commit these actions, but police departments, as institutions, aren't succeeding in weeding them out to the point where the racial disparity is removed.
It is only a "very few bad cops" who commit these actions, but police departments, as institutions, aren't succeeding in weeding them out to the point where the racial disparity is removed.
Bill b, Note: not every accusation of racial disparity causing death is true. Police culture may be working against reform in some, not all, places. Individual bad officers can influence others. The rigors of police work in certain locales also can cause cynicism and cynicism breeds nothing good. What is it like for a small number of detectives to handle close to 400 murders in Baltimore with 650,000 people vs. 400 murders in NYC with 8 million? Baltimore has a few thousand cops, NYC 35,000. What happens when the anti-snitch culture is so strong that community members will not cooperate out of fear or ideology? Maybe good cops burn out.
Jeff:Statistics can be deceptive.Yes,more white people are killed by cops than blacks. But the rate is higher for blacks; what gives? Then again, the number of arrests for blacks is higher per capita than whites so could explain some disparity. BUT there is disparate policing and sentencing, so are the data good?Then again, read yesterday's OpEd:90% of those killed by police had guns or knives. 90%! What gives? Of the 10%, how many were still justified because an unarmed individual may still be deadly. Of the 90% are there any that should have been handled with less force? What about police-involved shootings and deaths that are justified? Do we ever hear about them? Not really, because, after all, the police are just doing their jobs. What about community members who step and cooperate? We don't hear either. Complexities galore.
Jeff:Statistics can be deceptive.Yes,more white people are killed by cops than blacks. But the rate is higher for blacks; what gives? Then again, the number of arrests for blacks is higher per capita than whites so could explain some disparity. BUT there is disparate policing and sentencing, so are the data good?Then again, read yesterday's OpEd:90% of those killed by police had guns or knives. 90%! What gives? Of the 10%, how many were still justified because an unarmed individual may still be deadly. Of the 90% are there any that should have been handled with less force? What about police-involved shootings and deaths that are justified? Do we ever hear about them? Not really, because, after all, the police are just doing their jobs. What about community members who step and cooperate? We don't hear either. Complexities galore.
I have to admit, I am surprised (and disgusted) by the sheer number of bigoted and racist comments on this piece.
Talking down about black culture implies you believe it to be inferior to white culture. This belief is, last I checked, called white supremacy.
Talking down about black culture implies you believe it to be inferior to white culture. This belief is, last I checked, called white supremacy.
35
The elements people dislike and fear in black culture: misogyny, out of wedlock births to young girls, violence and lauding of violence, drugs, guns, incarceration - have largely permeated low socioeconomic status white society too. Half our racism would be solved with enough good paying jobs for low to mid skilled employees so that we aren't in the hunger games. And no, training isn't the answer. Not everyone has the brains for software development.
3
I share you surprise and disgust, except most comments are anti-white. You must be reading a different article.
This is why we are not having a discussion. We will settle this on November 8. If you win, God help us all.
The rhetoric on all of this, the police shootings and the shooting of police, has to change. If BLM just takes the path already taken by too many with respect to mass shootings, that "Oh, that has nothing to do with us, we're a movement of peace," then the people they get very in your face to are going to not want to talk anymore, either. The language of "this shows" about breaking points and snapping could easily be adopted by their opponents, too.
The reason South Africa chose truth and reconciliation is because truth and anger doesn't solve much.
The reason South Africa chose truth and reconciliation is because truth and anger doesn't solve much.
20
Every group of people, whites, blacks, Arabs and others have their psychopaths who have a need or compulsion to kill. They never admit to being sick in the head. No, they wrap their murderous psychosis in some cause, BLM, Islam, anti-gay dogma, anti-Semitism. These people, deadly as they may be, are aberrations.
44
When you say psychosis, would that include killing of gays by Muslims? Are you including the vast majority of Muslims in middle eastern nations who widely agree with those state-sanctioned killings? We're talking 99% of a nation are 'psychos'?
1
Yes and they are heavily armed aberrations thanks to the NRA.
Why does one black gunman speak for an entire group while dozens of cops who kill citizens are just "bad elements" among an otherwise noble group?
177
Because cops are frequently justified in killing "citizens" -- such as when the citizens have guns and are firing at the cops. So the cops you are referring to are cops who are not justified in shooting someone. And we know they are not justified because there is an investigation -- sometimes, as in Ferguson, overseen by the African-American Attorney General of the United States and watched closely by the African-American President of the United States. And if the investigations says they were not justified they are indicted, but if the investigation says they were justified. BLM does not accept the finding and announces that this was a police murder. And not just a police murder but a racially motivated genocide against black people. And this narrative is not open to question even when the cop is Mexican (possibly of Native American descent) as in Minnesota.
6
Because according to most of the comments here, many people feel the actions of a few officers represent everyone and there is a widespread war on black people.
It's all part of the liberal approach of minimizing and filing people into categories rather than treating them equally as individuals. When you see individuals, you have to think more deeply than colour and liberals do not want to do this. It is easier to justify their belief system when you just see groups to whom you can mindlessly ascribe traits.
It's all part of the liberal approach of minimizing and filing people into categories rather than treating them equally as individuals. When you see individuals, you have to think more deeply than colour and liberals do not want to do this. It is easier to justify their belief system when you just see groups to whom you can mindlessly ascribe traits.
2
No one said this gunman represents all Blacks but when he shoots officers protecting protestors for what the GUNMEN believes does it not send the wrong message ?
1
Please remember Rev. Martin Luther King's "role in the advancement of civil rights using nonviolent civil disobedience based on his Christian beliefs."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.
9
One group has one group has developed and promoted a culture and reputation for drugs and violence that is idealized and promoted in their "music" - then wonders why the rest of society believes them. Duh!
35
Indeed, Wendi Moore-O'Neal is entirely correct. There is no justice or liberation organization that has "an investment in shooting cops". But there are certainly many organizations who are keen to use this tragedy to discredit Black Lives Matter. Judging from the fact that this extremely slanted article was published, the NY Times must be one of them.
6
I agree that there are many organizations and individuals eager to use the Dallas shooter as an excuse to unfairly discredit a whole movement, including making the ridiculous claim that some sort of movement is not justified/needed. I don't think the article was slanted though -- just pointing out the complexities of trying to have a non-violent movement about an issue that makes people very very angry, esp. one that reflects a reality in which many people justifiably feel that their lives are at risk. Successful non-violent action is very hard, esp when passions are high.
1
With the anti-police, anti-white rhetoric, the chants in the NYC protests, the NYT editorial policy of finding a race angle in every story, the anti-Trump street violence, what did people expect? The NYT, the Al Sharpton crowd, the DOJ, and the deliberate ignoring of the root causes have turned this into a black v. every other race divide. Let's not treat criminals as "freedom fighters". Such a shame.
It's time to stop the damaging rhetoric, the media fanning of the flames, the religion of "victimization", focus on the root causes and solutions, and build on the legacy of King.
As a non-white, non-black, I watch these events with horror.
It's time to stop the damaging rhetoric, the media fanning of the flames, the religion of "victimization", focus on the root causes and solutions, and build on the legacy of King.
As a non-white, non-black, I watch these events with horror.
76
"The NYT, the Al Sharpton crowd, the DOJ, and the deliberate ignoring of the root causes have turned this into a black v. every other race divide. Let's not treat criminals as "freedom fighters". Such a shame."
I don't think calling for less police brutality, and a higher bar for police serving as judge, jury, and executioner during traffic stops is treating "criminals as freedom fighters." Man, the racists are coming out of the woodworks today.
I don't think calling for less police brutality, and a higher bar for police serving as judge, jury, and executioner during traffic stops is treating "criminals as freedom fighters." Man, the racists are coming out of the woodworks today.
"Fairly or not"? Not fairly. Peaceful protest is vital and trying to shut it down by citing murderous people unconnected to the organizers is a bad move - by the Times and most certainly by Dan Patrick.
7
I'm confused. Why do conservatives denounce BLM as causing a lone black gunman to murder police in Dallas; but when a lone white man shoots up a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado, the same conservatives claim it is because he, as an individual, was solely responsible for his actions. It supposedly had nothing to do with aggressive conservative opposition to abortion. I'm serious with my question. Can someone explain to me the difference in purely logical terms?
39
The same reason that liberals claim that Robert Lewis Dear (Planned Parenthood) and Dylan Storm Roof (AME Church) were "white Christian terrorists".
Either you are blamed for your group associations or because you "pledged" yourself to BLM or ISIS -- or not.
Liberals want to have it BOTH ways.
Either you are blamed for your group associations or because you "pledged" yourself to BLM or ISIS -- or not.
Liberals want to have it BOTH ways.
3
Both sides play that game. An Islamic supremacist who kills people at a club in Orlando is representative of all muslims to one group and representative only of himself to others. The groups switch sides completely when a white supremacist kills black people at a church in the South. The first group now says he is just a lone nut job representative only of himself and the other group now says he is representative of young white males in the south. And so it goes.
Because most conservatives do not advocate violence to stop abortion. BLM, on the other hand, advocates violence against police and one of their followers took them seriously.
Rhetoric yielded mass murder.
Rhetoric yielded mass murder.
1
To most people BLM is a racist organization. They seem to be an organization that takes the sides of black people no matter the situation. And they call for the killing of police. They take the word of witnesses who are discredited by the police and the Justice Department . Such as in Ferguson with Michael Brown they started the hands up chant. And continued long after it was discredited.
No one believes the police are after black people because they don't like them. Although most people understand the frustrations of the black community. But to target police and particularly white police will get them nowhere with the public. No one likes getting stopped by the police. Even if they themselves are in the wrong. But most people know to be civilized when stopped and that the job of the police officer is much harder than the job that they do. Police have guns and they are the authority what you respect that your unlikely to be harmed. That's just common sense.
No one believes the police are after black people because they don't like them. Although most people understand the frustrations of the black community. But to target police and particularly white police will get them nowhere with the public. No one likes getting stopped by the police. Even if they themselves are in the wrong. But most people know to be civilized when stopped and that the job of the police officer is much harder than the job that they do. Police have guns and they are the authority what you respect that your unlikely to be harmed. That's just common sense.
91
Mick--NO, NOT to MOST people, unless you have some data the rest of us haven't seen. Simply saying something extreme does not make it true, even though you righties seem to believe it does.
The massacre of 5 citizens who were police officers should certainly not be seen as a setback to the non-violent organization Black Lives Matter. The setback should be to our culture of training young people to kill in Afghanistan and other countries. The setback should be to our culture of letting the sale of guns, especially assault-type guns, go spiraling out of control.
13
Non-violent? Yes, some of the marches were certainly non-violent (e.g., Winston Salem NC) but too many were violent, verbally and physically. Everyone tunes them out once the peaceful marches turn to violence. I know I do. We all know that whatever's going to be accomplished on the issue of violence isn't going to fixed by more violence, and civil disobedience.
We have too many guns on the street, illegal guns. And too many are using them on each other, on their own communities and families. It needs to be addressed but all the NRA, gun advocates and republicans appear to have gone underground this last week afraid to address the mayhem they helped create.
We have too many guns on the street, illegal guns. And too many are using them on each other, on their own communities and families. It needs to be addressed but all the NRA, gun advocates and republicans appear to have gone underground this last week afraid to address the mayhem they helped create.
1
The "non-violent" black lives matter? Really? You haven't been listening to the protestors in NYC and other cities? Or the rhetoric?
4
Despite the President's claims that contemporary events are no reprise of 1960s events, I see tremendous parallels between what is happening now and what has happened in the past.
It was almost predictable that--in the void of prosecutions for police shootings, the perpetual over-policing of poor black people, and the repeated traumatization of seeing real people die on screen--young people would rise to protest these injustices. (Think of the youth participation in Civil Rights movements, BEFORE adults had the courage to join, and college aged participation in Student Non-Violent Coordination Committee.)
It was almost predictable that--in the void of a real message for change and inclusion and the demonization of immigrants and poor people to divert our attention from Oligarchy--Republicans would begin to denigrate social movements for the divisive messaging they themselves have fostered. (Think J. Edgar Hoover and his Co-intel Pro program for changing the public's interest in black social movements during a time of an unjust war.)
The Civil Rights movement had its moderates and radicals, just like any other movement (both past and present). If we cannot move beyond this need for reductive clear messaging to see the parallels, I am afraid that we will be doomed to repeat past struggles. Again, and again, and again.
Where are we now? From slavery to the Civil War. From Reconstruction to Jim Crow. From the Civil Rights movement to the New Jim Crow...
It was almost predictable that--in the void of prosecutions for police shootings, the perpetual over-policing of poor black people, and the repeated traumatization of seeing real people die on screen--young people would rise to protest these injustices. (Think of the youth participation in Civil Rights movements, BEFORE adults had the courage to join, and college aged participation in Student Non-Violent Coordination Committee.)
It was almost predictable that--in the void of a real message for change and inclusion and the demonization of immigrants and poor people to divert our attention from Oligarchy--Republicans would begin to denigrate social movements for the divisive messaging they themselves have fostered. (Think J. Edgar Hoover and his Co-intel Pro program for changing the public's interest in black social movements during a time of an unjust war.)
The Civil Rights movement had its moderates and radicals, just like any other movement (both past and present). If we cannot move beyond this need for reductive clear messaging to see the parallels, I am afraid that we will be doomed to repeat past struggles. Again, and again, and again.
Where are we now? From slavery to the Civil War. From Reconstruction to Jim Crow. From the Civil Rights movement to the New Jim Crow...
5
Interesting that the news crawl on FOX-News at one point yesterday read: 5 Police Officers killed during protest march against police. Interesting way to describe the Black Lives Matter peaceful march to protest shootings of black men. this is why we will never reach consensus and healing in the county - people believe things like that.
9
But... it is true. There is no BLM rhetoric or chanting against black-on-black violence. Just against police.
3
e- I hate Fox BUT some marches are anti-police. Yes, the overarching issue is brutality and unjustified deaths at police hands, but look/listen to the video online from demonstrations after Mr. Garner's death. There were chants about death to cops. Spitting.The NYPD was very restrained. Watch the tapes from the Staten Island Ferry terminal in Manhattan. No cop had time to live stream and narrate what the crowd was doing and saying, right? Not now, either. Seems like videos of demonstrations might be disproportionately one-sided.
What about the slogan "No justice, no peace? Can that be interpreted as tolerating violence at least by some? It was used in Baltimore in both peaceful and violent demonstrations. The Baltimore State's Attorney used it in her news conference 4 days after the riots when she announced charges against 6 cops. What is she implying here? That she charged to stop the violence? That the charges were right but would serve to ensure peace?
To deny hatred on both or all sides is to deny reality. There are some haters in any movement or group. Crowds can go bad so police crowd control is so challenging. McKesson doesn't advocate violence. What happens if his demonstration has people who do? Will he record that? Cops at demonstrations? Well-trained ans supervised cops will be restrained but where to draw the line to prevent injury and violence? Badly trained cops simply react. Cops ordered to hold back in 2015 Baltimore were faced with riots. Dilemmas.
What about the slogan "No justice, no peace? Can that be interpreted as tolerating violence at least by some? It was used in Baltimore in both peaceful and violent demonstrations. The Baltimore State's Attorney used it in her news conference 4 days after the riots when she announced charges against 6 cops. What is she implying here? That she charged to stop the violence? That the charges were right but would serve to ensure peace?
To deny hatred on both or all sides is to deny reality. There are some haters in any movement or group. Crowds can go bad so police crowd control is so challenging. McKesson doesn't advocate violence. What happens if his demonstration has people who do? Will he record that? Cops at demonstrations? Well-trained ans supervised cops will be restrained but where to draw the line to prevent injury and violence? Badly trained cops simply react. Cops ordered to hold back in 2015 Baltimore were faced with riots. Dilemmas.
The BLM movement dares not chant "Pigs in a blanket. Fry 'em like bacon" again or they will totally discredit themselves, but already some are showing signs of justifying the heated rhetoric by suggesting that the five policemen who died are not enough. This hate rhetoric must stop.
113
'The BLM movement dares not chant "Pigs in a blanket. Fry 'em like bacon"'
Some BLM protesters were recorded chanting: “What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want it? Now!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4ARsxrZh8
It is probably a small minority within BLM but they are there.
Some BLM protesters were recorded chanting: “What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want it? Now!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4ARsxrZh8
It is probably a small minority within BLM but they are there.
You can't just keep on killing people with impunity without someone shooting back. It's not a surprise. For every Martin Luther King there is also a Malcolm X. For every Thomas Jefferson there is also a General Washington. People will be free. It's in everyones best interest to allow it.
7
For every black guy killed by police there are thousands and thousands killed by blacks.
6
He did not shoot back. He did not go to Minnesota or Louisiana and take on the police there. He satisfied his grudge on innocents elsewhere.
1
Go out on the street as a regular,unprotected Black man Obama.See what that reality is.You an obscene failure and I regret voting for you.
10
Actually Obama is considered the best president for at least the last century by many. He is a very decent and kind man who attempted to serve gracefully through the muck and the mire of so much hatred and prejudice against his own ethnicity. Many of us will regret once he has served fully his full two terms. I can't imagine what is so "obscene" about him.
2
I'm pretty sure he knows what that reality is considering he was an unprotected black man in America until he became a Senator....
1
Obama is one of the most intelligent men on the planet and would never have trouble if the police stopped him.
Shouldn't presidents Obama and Bush appear together in Dallas to emphasize that all lives matter?
2
I've watched the plight of the inner cities all across America where the worst of societies problems fester year after year for over 50 years of my life. For some reason the value system is so different than the rest of America. All the negative aspects of society seem concentrated and accepted rather than destroyed as evil. All the negative aspects of society: alcohol abuse, illegal drugs, gangs, illegal gambling, thefts, robberies, illiteracy, teen age pregnancy, child neglect, single parents more interested in their lives, cultural music full of violence towards women, other humans, distrust of the establishment; yet the demands to give them more of free taxpayer monies. Very little responsibility or accountability for benefits given to them. Public Housing torn apart instead of being responsible to take care of it and protect it. The worst of mankind with millions but not all people living in inner cities all across America who act out daily then blame everyone but themselves for what has happened. Politicians and Hollywood playing the game to make millions or keep their own power, lifestyles all the while looking down at these people as nothing more than chattel, until they strike back. The nerve of Obama to, the big hypocrites, offering nothing in 8 years to demand change by the people who commit the senseless killings, the acceptance of cultural violence or the need to fit into society. I was poor, my parents (2) taught us moral and ethical values.
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Shouldn't presidents Obama and Bush appear together in Dallas to emphasize that all lives matter?
11
Obama would not appear with Bush if his life depended on it.
1
Mr. Green's comments are also not helping to the cause. There is a systemic problem in the police force, but it must be addressed carefully, not by saying that some black people may snap. Though it may be true (and human), it is not helpful to Black Lives Matter. Protests are esential to keep the message, but also respect to those individuals that protect and wants to do a good job. Is a very cautious balance, but one that gained many followers to the cause.
8
BLM is a worthy cause. We must push forward for equal protection under the law as Americans.
Black Lives Matter is a group that calls for violence against the police. How can they now say that Micah Johnson is not one of them? He did what I heard a BLM group chanting in a protest. Disgusting. This is not a civil rights movement. BLM is a hate group. The Black community who desperately needs real leadership is being manipulated AGAIN. This is the real tragedy.
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Simply not true. You are eating Limbaugh puffs for breakfast and drinking Fox KoolAde all day.
1
readyforchange: You are completely inaccurate in labeling BLM as a violent movement who advocates violence. Just because people march and protest and interrupt presidential candidates during speeches does NOT mean they are bent on violence; they are doing what is protected under our Constitution.
Well said.
1
When one black man kills a policeman or five, it is a condemnation of his entire race.
When white policemen kill a black man or five, it is a tragedy or less.
Now, tell me that we do not live in a racist society.
(It should not be necessary for those who protest the routine murder of people of color by the police to make statements concerning a person who was in no way involved in their movement.)
When white policemen kill a black man or five, it is a tragedy or less.
Now, tell me that we do not live in a racist society.
(It should not be necessary for those who protest the routine murder of people of color by the police to make statements concerning a person who was in no way involved in their movement.)
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When a bad cop kills a black man, it is all cops that are bad, according the BLM and others. When one gunman kills five white cops, just because they are white, based on the rhetoric of BLM, he is acting alone.
See how that works?
See how that works?
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When ever has one white cop killed 5 black people at once and shot 7 more? Never, that's right. Your comparison is both disturbing and glib.
2
Nope, the gunman in dallas did agree with the cause, but he was a nearly stereotypically psycho-social/sexually stunted individual like the orlando shooter and like timothy mcveigh who got a hold of enough firepower to kill as many people as he could. did chants of "die pigs" influence him? probably, as the orlando martyr was influenced by superstition and mcveigh by conspiracy theories. We need to prohibit the encouragement of violence and insist that individuals who have a history of domestic violence, etc, be kept apart from others.
1
A white supremacist slaughtered nine black men and women in church in South Carolina. Any suggestion that this was terrorism was loudly rejected by many of the same people who want to label Black Lives Matter a terrorist group. Clive Bundy and an armed group confronted federal marshals. Not only were they not killed, they were praised as patriots by many Republicans. There is only one explanation for this double standard and that is racism.
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Your contention might have been clever, except for the fact that your cited examples are untrue.
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When the murder took place a year ago, the killer was decried as a racist, correctly so in my opinion, and the NYT and the Obama administration called it an example of institutional racism. This year, when a killer murdered 5 police for being white, the word racism is nowhere to be seen in NYT articles, and the BLM refers to ignore it. Indeed, a double standard is at work.
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Regarding Bundy and his group, that's not entirely accurate. No one died in the 2014 standoff, but during the Oregon standoff police shot and killed LaVoy Finicum, one of the key figures involved in the takeover of the refuge.
3
BLM is a just cause but its members should take care to steer away from Mica Johnson's comments that he hated all white people. It is the police, both white and black, killing unarmed blacks, not white America at large. Whether BLM acknowledges this and refutes Johnson's own racism will determine if the movement can maintain its support among all Americans who believe in fair play.
31
BLM cannot be deemed a "just cause" simply because they are non-inclusive with their focus solely on black lives. "All" lives matter and that is the message that needs to be delivered. More whites than blacks lose their lives during confrontations with police, but the media follows the misguided lead of Obama and Clinton with their 'identity politics' and you never read about incidents in which whites are killed.
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If black (and hispanic and asian) police are killing unarmed blacks....what does that mean? It can't be "racist" if a black officer kills a black suspect -- can it? The officer in the Philandro Castile shooting in Minnesota is hispanic/asian from his name -- not "white" -- so what was his animus towards a black motorist? It can't be because he is a southern redneck (in MINNESOTA?) descended from a slave-holding plantation owner 150 years ago. So it has to be something ELSE. What is it?
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Again, it is not raw numbers that are at issue here, but the proportional rates at which blacks are killed in comparison to whites.
1
I fail to see how Black Lives Matter can be blamed for this troubled man doing what he did.
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If you go online and advocate killing a government official, you will be arrested. If you chant that you "want dead cops now" somehow you are off the hook?
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I strongly believe he was incited by the rhetoric of BLM.
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luna, "I strongly believe he was incited by" his interpretation and understanding of "the rhetoric of BLM." See the difference?
What are we to do? Say absolutely nothing because it might be misinterpreted? And where does that leave us.
What are we to do? Say absolutely nothing because it might be misinterpreted? And where does that leave us.
1
BLM is nothing more than another racist group, inspired by a largely invented victim-hood status which in turn relies upon a few cherry-picked episodes from across the nation. Its very name is both divisive and revealing of that truth. It bears significant responsibility for tragedies such as that in Dallas.
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I would add that BLM could not even have the grace to suspend protests to honor the police officers who dies protecting their members. How many blue lives have to be lost protecting BLM? Obviously, in the eyes of BLM, blue lives don't matter. I'll side with the police, thank you very much.
3
Best description I heard so far. I couldn't agree more.
As a middle-aged white woman, I reject this statement completely.
There are three intersecting social problems revealed in this series of incidents—including both the outrageous use of deadly force by police against people who aren't in imminent danger of harming others, and the terrible sickening attack against officers in Dallas or other killing of cops because they're cops:
* African Americans are more likely to be stopped for minor offenses, and more likely to be badgered by officers who choose to escalate the situation. This is statistically not an illusion.
* Today's increasingly militarized police officers are more inclined to treat ALL members of the public as "hostiles" or potential criminals. They do not think of themselves as serving and protecting, but as imposing order at all cost. (Of course this is not all police—it's a disturbing trend, not a group characteristic.)
* Police officers are on stressfully heightened continuous alert because guns are becoming so ubiquitous in our society, and a vocal minority of the populace believe they have the right to use deadly force in any confrontation to preserve their "freedom," by which they do not mean their political liberty, but merely their desire to exert their will over others.
BLM concerns itself with the first of these problems. We need a multifocal approach to deal with all three as a whole and simultaneously, with many groups bringing their perspectives to bear, but all listening and hearing each other.
There are three intersecting social problems revealed in this series of incidents—including both the outrageous use of deadly force by police against people who aren't in imminent danger of harming others, and the terrible sickening attack against officers in Dallas or other killing of cops because they're cops:
* African Americans are more likely to be stopped for minor offenses, and more likely to be badgered by officers who choose to escalate the situation. This is statistically not an illusion.
* Today's increasingly militarized police officers are more inclined to treat ALL members of the public as "hostiles" or potential criminals. They do not think of themselves as serving and protecting, but as imposing order at all cost. (Of course this is not all police—it's a disturbing trend, not a group characteristic.)
* Police officers are on stressfully heightened continuous alert because guns are becoming so ubiquitous in our society, and a vocal minority of the populace believe they have the right to use deadly force in any confrontation to preserve their "freedom," by which they do not mean their political liberty, but merely their desire to exert their will over others.
BLM concerns itself with the first of these problems. We need a multifocal approach to deal with all three as a whole and simultaneously, with many groups bringing their perspectives to bear, but all listening and hearing each other.
3
In our modern day society of endless military deployment it seems our ex soldiers both police and citizens are struggling to adjust to a peaceful non combative civilian life. Relying on their weapon and former training to reach many terrible outcomes. I really do not see an end in sight. Sad.
10
With a voluntary military for the past 43 years, the percentage of the population which has gone to actual war in the Middle East is quite small. The average police officer is no more likely to be a veteran than is your postal carrier.
5
The militarization of community police forces is real. The military dichotomy of US vs. The Enemy does not bode well for community policing where the rule is Keeping the Peace.
3
"The average police officer is no more likely to be a veteran than is your postal carrier."
Oh ho! NOT true.
Veterans get points over others just for taking the police exam. And the (low)level of education you need (that is required) coupled with points for military service make you a "strong" candidate. In other words, high school education, & a hitch in the military give you MORE of an edge over those who may be better educated but did not serve. When you're under-educated and receive more points than the other guy, you're usually a shoe-in, and everyone knows it.
Post office? Na! Too much work for the pay, and they haven't hired one full-time worker in over a decade.
Oh ho! NOT true.
Veterans get points over others just for taking the police exam. And the (low)level of education you need (that is required) coupled with points for military service make you a "strong" candidate. In other words, high school education, & a hitch in the military give you MORE of an edge over those who may be better educated but did not serve. When you're under-educated and receive more points than the other guy, you're usually a shoe-in, and everyone knows it.
Post office? Na! Too much work for the pay, and they haven't hired one full-time worker in over a decade.
Every day and night many thousands of blacks are stopped by police in the U.S. The vast majority of them follow instructions, act in a reasonably civil manner, and don't make furtive or threatening-appearing moves,
and don't get shot.
One fact is patently obvious: Millions of non-black Americans have begun to have second thoughts about granting blacks special privileges and consideration as has been policy for a few decades. If they don't clean up their act, it will not go will for them.
and don't get shot.
One fact is patently obvious: Millions of non-black Americans have begun to have second thoughts about granting blacks special privileges and consideration as has been policy for a few decades. If they don't clean up their act, it will not go will for them.
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In other words, good blacks can survive daily harassment by police but bad blacks deserve to be killed.
19
Actually, the favoritism shown to blacks began in earnest in the mid-60s with the spate of legislation pushed through by Lyndon Johnson, who is never cited for his efforts. Job creation, arbitrary preferences in hiring and education, and a host of other benefits intended to level the American playing field.
There was a recent study done that estimates that some 17 Trillion Dollars has been spent in this regard and that is nearly all of the national debt we have today.
The result; more people live in poverty today than did 50 years ago. I think we can safely conclude that the "War on Poverty" has been lost.
There was a recent study done that estimates that some 17 Trillion Dollars has been spent in this regard and that is nearly all of the national debt we have today.
The result; more people live in poverty today than did 50 years ago. I think we can safely conclude that the "War on Poverty" has been lost.
18
Whites undoubtedly make the same "threatening moves" like reaching for their wallets when asked for license and registration. I guess it's just dumb luck that I (white) have survived half a dozen or so traffic stops over my lifetime.
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Mr. Green, the activist, "We are tired of watching police kill our brothers and sisters. We are tired of being tired.”
I understand and empathize.
But, Mr. Green, why have you been comparatively silent about the many thousands of black lives taken by black shooters? Do those black lives not matter as much?
Until this community itself faces up to its violence, it is unreasonable to expect progress. There is a desperate denial and deflection occurring, very publicly.
I understand and empathize.
But, Mr. Green, why have you been comparatively silent about the many thousands of black lives taken by black shooters? Do those black lives not matter as much?
Until this community itself faces up to its violence, it is unreasonable to expect progress. There is a desperate denial and deflection occurring, very publicly.
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That's right, blame the victims.
25
"Until this community itself faces up to its violence, it is unreasonable to expect progress. There is a desperate denial and deflection occurring, very publicly."
This statement is part of the problem. " ... this (black) community ..." is not divorced from other Americans. It is not the responsibility of just African-Americans to ensure safe and stable neighborhoods. It's the responsibility of ALL Americans. This is OUR country and these are OUT cities, neighbors, co-workers, and fellow citizens. The ghettoization of American cities and towns didn't happen by accident. Zoning laws, racially restrictive housing covenants and mortgage loans, very purposeful efforts to keep minorities out of certain public school districts, and longtime employment discrimination, were designed by WHITE people to keep especially black people away from them. Essentially this writer is saying "White people created this problem ... now you black people need to clean it up."
This statement is part of the problem. " ... this (black) community ..." is not divorced from other Americans. It is not the responsibility of just African-Americans to ensure safe and stable neighborhoods. It's the responsibility of ALL Americans. This is OUR country and these are OUT cities, neighbors, co-workers, and fellow citizens. The ghettoization of American cities and towns didn't happen by accident. Zoning laws, racially restrictive housing covenants and mortgage loans, very purposeful efforts to keep minorities out of certain public school districts, and longtime employment discrimination, were designed by WHITE people to keep especially black people away from them. Essentially this writer is saying "White people created this problem ... now you black people need to clean it up."
18
What does that have to do with out-of-control cops? Police are supposed to be law-enforcement professionals, acting professionally.
11
“This has to stop,” [Texas Lt. Gov.] Dan Patrick said, adding of the police officers, “These are real people.”
The same could be said about the unarmed victims of police officers. Or maybe deep down you don't view them as real people, too.
The same could be said about the unarmed victims of police officers. Or maybe deep down you don't view them as real people, too.
100
The same IS said about those "victims". So what's your point?
5
I was thinking the same thing. So the blue thugs who violate our rights on a daily basis are 'real people' but all the unarmed black men who were killed by the boys in blue - are somehow not......
blue lives will matter to me when they stop trampling my rights and acting like soldiers.
blue lives will matter to me when they stop trampling my rights and acting like soldiers.
7
"Trampling" your "rights"?
That is hyperbole and absolute nonsense, and I expect you know it.
That is hyperbole and absolute nonsense, and I expect you know it.
1
You would think that wiping out police brutality would be easier than eliminating racism. Protection of the police institution is deeply entrenched in the American psychology. However the police belief that they can kill anyone for near any reason must change. There are punishments from losing their job and pension entitlements to the various degrees of manslaughter which must now publically and on a regular basis be dished out. Killing for minor crimes or no crime at all must stop. The risk is high if nothing is done.
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obviously, micah johnson has as much to do with the agenda of the BLM movement as chris harper-mercer or seung-hui cho or dylan klebold have to do with the agenda of higher education.
there is, however, a very large disparity between the media reporting of police murders and the facts.
the washington post tally of the 1500 fatal police shootings in 2015-16 shows that the great majority of the victims were male and mentally ill, and more than half the victims were white.
when was the last time you saw the police shooting of a mentally disturbed white man reported in the media?
i thought so.
the main fact to emerge from the WP tally is that 91% of the fatal shootings were by officers not wearing body cams. there is no other variable in the data, other than male sex, that skews that strongly.
an accurate and reliable evidentiary record, especially as regards the operations of court officers and the rule of law, is essential to our democracy.
it cannot be tolerated that the federal justice department has no idea -- no "official" idea -- of how many fatal police shootings there are, who the victims and shooters were, and what were the circumstances for lethal force.
the politics, divisiveness, acrimony in our society arises in huge part because the public is denied accurate information and intentionally misinformed.
ignorance is a kind of swamp, and it breeds the worst kind, the vermin and insect kind, of political discourse.
there is, however, a very large disparity between the media reporting of police murders and the facts.
the washington post tally of the 1500 fatal police shootings in 2015-16 shows that the great majority of the victims were male and mentally ill, and more than half the victims were white.
when was the last time you saw the police shooting of a mentally disturbed white man reported in the media?
i thought so.
the main fact to emerge from the WP tally is that 91% of the fatal shootings were by officers not wearing body cams. there is no other variable in the data, other than male sex, that skews that strongly.
an accurate and reliable evidentiary record, especially as regards the operations of court officers and the rule of law, is essential to our democracy.
it cannot be tolerated that the federal justice department has no idea -- no "official" idea -- of how many fatal police shootings there are, who the victims and shooters were, and what were the circumstances for lethal force.
the politics, divisiveness, acrimony in our society arises in huge part because the public is denied accurate information and intentionally misinformed.
ignorance is a kind of swamp, and it breeds the worst kind, the vermin and insect kind, of political discourse.
145
when was the last time you saw the police shooting of a mentally disturbed white man reported in the media?
When was said shooting of a mentally ill person deliberate and without cause?
When was said shooting of a mentally ill person deliberate and without cause?
2
The police are not generally mad dogs who are looking for mentally ill white men to kill. In a nation where anyone, including mentally ill people, can get guns, when one does, and there is a stand-off, a hostage situation, or the like as a result, who is called? You? Me? No, thank God, not me. We call the police when someone dangerous is killing or threatening to kill, and often armed at the time. This is the truth of it. In a nation of hundreds of millions of people, there will be terrible times that someone does have to be stopped. And that person is often mentally ill, and often armed. I don't know what you'd do if you were under attack by a criminal right now, but I would call the police. And I would be all right with their being armed when they respond.
1
drollere--Socrates said "Ignorance is the greatest evil.'
To borrow from President Obama yesterday, Micah Johnson should not be considered emblematic of either BLM or people of color than Dylann Storm Roof represented Caucasians. There are troubled individuals of every stripe who represent themselves only.
309
No one has suggested that he is emblematic of people of color.
However, the likelihood of his having been influenced by BLM is difficult to deny.
However, the likelihood of his having been influenced by BLM is difficult to deny.
32
Then why did he say that the Confederate flag must go from public display? So what if Dylann Roof held a flag in some selfie snapshots? He was also wearing a T shirt from Gold's gym. Another more recent shooter also patronized that business. Is there some nefarious connection?
3
C Nelson, the likelihood of him being influenced by black citizens being killed by police in traffic stops is difficult to deny also. But that doesn't mean we should blame the police for his actions either. This was a sick person whose actions can't be blamed on police or BLM. To be very clear I support the police and I support BLM, they are not mutually exclusive.
2
Indian Americans, Asian Americans, Jewish Americans, Mexican Americans (this list could go on) are all finding tremendous success and are important parts of today's American society. They take personal responsibility for their families, their education, and their careers.
I'm sick of hearing about how I am responsible for the turmoil in the African American communities just because I am of Irish and Greek descent and have light colored skin.