International cooperation and friendship does not require a stifling bureaucracy that reduces man to a generic widget.
5
Even if these young people feeling European are the elite and their numbers are small, so what? Who starts the wars? Not the rural folks aged over 55. The wars, as a rule, have been promoted and started by the elite. Pretty much like Brexit. So, having the Euriopean elite committed to peace between European nations is the insurance against new wars. Like all insurances it should be paid for.
1
All my life I thought I was into multi-culturalism. I've loved woolens from the British Isles, Japanese kimonos, Moroccan tinwork, African kuba cloth, etc. What I loved was not the junk made for tourists, but the things that spoke of traditions of places and people, cultural anthropology, if you will. World music, folk dances, global foods, art, crafts......what a remarkable planet!
I don't recognize the "multi-culturalism" of globalization. To me it is a one-dimensional corporate monoculture that, if anything, is making the richness of cultural diversity extinct. Tied to international brand names, it's as dull and ubiquitous as McDonalds and Coke. Globalism seems to have changed from uniqueness of place/people to economics/technology/communications transposable anywhere. It seems increasingly the young will find, and intentionally or unintentionally promote, the same corporate monoculture wherever they go.
I don't recognize the "multi-culturalism" of globalization. To me it is a one-dimensional corporate monoculture that, if anything, is making the richness of cultural diversity extinct. Tied to international brand names, it's as dull and ubiquitous as McDonalds and Coke. Globalism seems to have changed from uniqueness of place/people to economics/technology/communications transposable anywhere. It seems increasingly the young will find, and intentionally or unintentionally promote, the same corporate monoculture wherever they go.
6
This article seems to address the concerns of upper-middle to upper class young people. If any system wants to be successful, it must address the needs of all.
7
In reality it is probably more of a problem for the middle class and the lower middle class, since you have to pay a lot to study in England and Wales. Hence the EU, even without Erasmus, give less rich people in these countries a chance.
Of course, it is probably mostly the middle class using the possibility, and probably not only for economic reasons.
The upper class and the upper middle class probably can do whatever they want with or without help from the EU or anyone else.
Of course, it is probably mostly the middle class using the possibility, and probably not only for economic reasons.
The upper class and the upper middle class probably can do whatever they want with or without help from the EU or anyone else.
5
Most reliable reports in the UK press indicate that the British Millenials didn't get out and vote on the referendum. Those who wanted to leave the EU were apparently more highly motivated to vote. The polls showed that the vote was going to be close. It was close enough that if the Remain Millenials had turned out to vote in the same percentages as older Leave voters, Remain might have won.
4
The only age group that did not turn out for the vote was 18-24.
All other age groups, including 24-35 (which is 'younger voters' from my perspective), turned out in record numbers, higher than any election for the past 20 years.
Scroll about half way down this website and you'll see a good graph showing turnout by age group. It's the Financial Times website.
http://blogs.ft.com/ftdata/2016/07/01/brexit-everything-you-wanted-to-kn...
All other age groups, including 24-35 (which is 'younger voters' from my perspective), turned out in record numbers, higher than any election for the past 20 years.
Scroll about half way down this website and you'll see a good graph showing turnout by age group. It's the Financial Times website.
http://blogs.ft.com/ftdata/2016/07/01/brexit-everything-you-wanted-to-kn...
5
Much is being said about the "low turnout" of "young" voters. But it doesn't really amount to much. They'd have had to achieve an almost 100% turnout to change the results of this election.
In fact, ALL age groups except the very youngest, 18-24, voted with higher turnouts than any election since the mid-1990s.
That includes the 25-34 year old voters, which by my book anyway, are also young voters. The 25-34 year olds also increased their turnout significantly, to levels not seen since the mid-1990s.
The group with the single largest INCREASE in turnout was the 45-54 year olds.
This website has a good graph showing turnout by age group back to the 1970s. You have to scroll about half way down the page.
http://blogs.ft.com/ftdata/2016/07/01/brexit-everything-you-wanted-to-kn...
In fact, ALL age groups except the very youngest, 18-24, voted with higher turnouts than any election since the mid-1990s.
That includes the 25-34 year old voters, which by my book anyway, are also young voters. The 25-34 year olds also increased their turnout significantly, to levels not seen since the mid-1990s.
The group with the single largest INCREASE in turnout was the 45-54 year olds.
This website has a good graph showing turnout by age group back to the 1970s. You have to scroll about half way down the page.
http://blogs.ft.com/ftdata/2016/07/01/brexit-everything-you-wanted-to-kn...
6
I read over and over that only if the young people voted it would have gone another way. From what I have read there were many voters in the UK who just prior to the vote were sure that there was a very good chance that they would stay. This belief was bolstered by all the financial markets news so sure that an exit would never occur.
Well, oops. An unexpected result. If done over it would go vastly the other way.
A lesson to us Yanks. Dump Trump.
Well, oops. An unexpected result. If done over it would go vastly the other way.
A lesson to us Yanks. Dump Trump.
4
Actually, if done over it's quite likely the results would NOT change.
You would have to achieve an almost 100% voter turnout in the 18-24 age group to change the vote. The 25-34 group actually did turn out in much higher than normal numbers. The problem was, so did every other age group (except the youngest).
You would have to achieve an almost 100% voter turnout in the 18-24 age group to change the vote. The 25-34 group actually did turn out in much higher than normal numbers. The problem was, so did every other age group (except the youngest).
3
The dream of a European community appears to be a forlorn hope of a few people who find it fits their needs of studying freely in different European countries, but it seems to be foundering on the fears by the more advanced countries that the backward countries will dump their disaffected peoples onto the backs of the people in the advanced countries. Problems of disunity seem to be worsened by the actions of banks and wealthy speculators in preying upon the weaknesses of poorer countries. Easy access to study in Europe will never be a sufficient lure to offset centuries old differences in culture nor centuries old exploitation by wealthy elites. Even the United States with all its history of fighting for democratic government finds itself dancing to the tunes of the 1% with a spurious unity of middle class exploitation.
6
There is a curious disconnect.
The EU that younger voters seem to support, is the same EU that that was ready to embrace TTIP with open arms, a "free trade" treaty many liberals (myself included) and younger people (not me any longer) strongly objected to.
TTIP was one of several issues that my Brexit-voting British friends told me influenced their decision.
The old adage "divide and conquer" no longer applies. Monsanto and its ilk discovered that if they could get the EU leadership behind their plans they could bypass the will of large swaths of population in the affected countries.
When younger Europeans (many who oppose TTIP when they hear about it) have a bit of the experience and wisdom that comes with age, when they start to see the connections between issues like free trade agreements and the organizational structure of the EU, they might find themselves voting more like their parents.
The EU that younger voters seem to support, is the same EU that that was ready to embrace TTIP with open arms, a "free trade" treaty many liberals (myself included) and younger people (not me any longer) strongly objected to.
TTIP was one of several issues that my Brexit-voting British friends told me influenced their decision.
The old adage "divide and conquer" no longer applies. Monsanto and its ilk discovered that if they could get the EU leadership behind their plans they could bypass the will of large swaths of population in the affected countries.
When younger Europeans (many who oppose TTIP when they hear about it) have a bit of the experience and wisdom that comes with age, when they start to see the connections between issues like free trade agreements and the organizational structure of the EU, they might find themselves voting more like their parents.
6
Just prior to reading this article, I had seen a television news piece this morning of cellphone video of a crowded bus somewhere in England. In it, white English youth were hurtling insults at minority “immigrants” (as they were being called) they were sharing a crowded bus ride with.
That snapshot video of another segment of European “youth” contrasts markedly with the youth as described in this article. Comparing the two, it seems that this is a “tale of two Europes,” with one section/class of its youth that can seek adventure, education, employment and other opportunities abroad – and take advantage of a well-developed infrastructure that supports it -- and another that cannot.
That snapshot video of another segment of European “youth” contrasts markedly with the youth as described in this article. Comparing the two, it seems that this is a “tale of two Europes,” with one section/class of its youth that can seek adventure, education, employment and other opportunities abroad – and take advantage of a well-developed infrastructure that supports it -- and another that cannot.
9
Yes, the UK, like most European countries, the USA and probably most countries in the world, has its unfortunate share of mindless racist thugs. It always has. It always will.
Youtube is an excellent tool to bring their despicable stupidity to a wide audience.
I just now did a quick Youtube search on various search terms such as "black racist on bus" and came up with more of the same garbage, people of all colors and both genders being despicably stupid racists in public.
Here's one if you're interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcZ1D2LCsao
Youtube is an excellent tool to bring their despicable stupidity to a wide audience.
I just now did a quick Youtube search on various search terms such as "black racist on bus" and came up with more of the same garbage, people of all colors and both genders being despicably stupid racists in public.
Here's one if you're interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcZ1D2LCsao
People do not change. If you are part of the older generation, change will be difficult. The young have never known the past and therefore do not appreciate what has been lost. Change has speed limits.
The failure of the EU to appreciate this very simple principle about human society and people's varying personality shows an incredible lack of appreciation for the difficulty and complexity of what they were trying to accomplish with the Triple Es.
The EU could have done what they did but with 20 more years in the plan's timeline and the problems they face now may never have happened. Ambition blinded them to reality.
The failure of the EU to appreciate this very simple principle about human society and people's varying personality shows an incredible lack of appreciation for the difficulty and complexity of what they were trying to accomplish with the Triple Es.
The EU could have done what they did but with 20 more years in the plan's timeline and the problems they face now may never have happened. Ambition blinded them to reality.
2
The problem is that young adults did not turn out to vote. I think their percentage was something like 38% - they probably thought you should be able to vote from you I-Phone or from Facebook. Older people turned out to vote in the high 70%.
This shows what happens when a population which knows the out come they want but is too busy to go and vote for it.
NO matter what they whine and cry about now, it is their own fault that they didn't vote. They did not, in the long run, care enough about the future to vote. Older people cared a lot about the future and voted. They won and the young people lost.
I don't feel sorry for them at all, They were too busy or lazy to vote and they paid the prices for not voting. I was raised to believe that voting was important and I have always voted since I was 18. Even at 81 I still make sure I vote - whether it be the primary, election for local council, or the presidency - I still tun our to vote.
This shows what happens when a population which knows the out come they want but is too busy to go and vote for it.
NO matter what they whine and cry about now, it is their own fault that they didn't vote. They did not, in the long run, care enough about the future to vote. Older people cared a lot about the future and voted. They won and the young people lost.
I don't feel sorry for them at all, They were too busy or lazy to vote and they paid the prices for not voting. I was raised to believe that voting was important and I have always voted since I was 18. Even at 81 I still make sure I vote - whether it be the primary, election for local council, or the presidency - I still tun our to vote.
8
The young who voted to remain, see the EU open border from the perspective of associating with their equals from other EU countries. They never live with, or deal with, the overall result of open borders and EU regulations. Give them a decade or so, and they will have the same reaction to the loss of customs and culture that their parents now have. What was it Mark Twain wrote: "When I returned home after my first year of college, I was surprised at how ignorant my parents were. When I returned again after graduating, I was surprised at how much they had learned in just three years."
12
It was the young who should have decided Brexit. They were and are the ones who will live with the consequences. My generation has betrayed them.
I just cannot develop any sympathy for these privileged young people. As some of your other commentators have noted, compare their eurojet-setting lives with those of people over 40 who have actually done something -- or tried to do something, or simply suffered -- in their lives in Europe and England in the last 25 years. I'm sorry: while I am pleased with their cross-border cosmopolitanism -- sorely needed and welcome after decades of German aggressions -- their protests leave me completely unmoved. There are good reasons for the Brits to stay in Europe, but the selfish interests of these people are not it.
Just visited Greece last month, and I hope the Greeks leave too. The suffering there is intense and undeserved.
Just visited Greece last month, and I hope the Greeks leave too. The suffering there is intense and undeserved.
13
The article describes perfectly what our family lived: All our 4 children studies in at least 2 european countries and speak at least 3 languages. But globalization and bad government politics have put many other people in our city out of job and without a future to believe in. They vote in large numbers for Le Pen. Its normal that the losers of globalization are attracted to nationalist ideas. I understand that low qualified workers don't want to be in competition with workers in Bangladesh or China. Either our politicians change globalized capitalism or globalized capitalism will destroy more than just the EU.
14
"Either our politicians change globalized capitalism or globalized capitalism will destroy more than just the EU."
I agree! The EU, and the EEC before it, and NATO, have helped to create one of the great periods of peace and prosperity, the 70 years since the end of WW2. It was unprecedented.
And yet, I was happy to see the Brexit challenge succeed.
In the past 15 years the EU leadership has gradually become more and more unaccountable to the people and more and more under the thumb of Big Capital (see TTIP). They are quickly becoming a tool for the likes of Monsanto to steamroll over the will of large numbers of Europeans. This development has left me very concerned. I've been feeling for several years the EU really needs to wake up. Finally, with the success of Brexit it MIGHT. I've got my fingers crossed that the next 10 years will bring a devolution of power back to individual countries and their citizens, even while they try to maintain the most socially beneficial aspects, such as facilitating student exchanges and internal open borders.
If that happens and the EU finds the right balance of power between local control and EU control, then I hope the people of the UK will come back to the issue of EU membership again, 10-15 years from now. Then these same young people who may have failed to vote this time will have their chance again.
I agree! The EU, and the EEC before it, and NATO, have helped to create one of the great periods of peace and prosperity, the 70 years since the end of WW2. It was unprecedented.
And yet, I was happy to see the Brexit challenge succeed.
In the past 15 years the EU leadership has gradually become more and more unaccountable to the people and more and more under the thumb of Big Capital (see TTIP). They are quickly becoming a tool for the likes of Monsanto to steamroll over the will of large numbers of Europeans. This development has left me very concerned. I've been feeling for several years the EU really needs to wake up. Finally, with the success of Brexit it MIGHT. I've got my fingers crossed that the next 10 years will bring a devolution of power back to individual countries and their citizens, even while they try to maintain the most socially beneficial aspects, such as facilitating student exchanges and internal open borders.
If that happens and the EU finds the right balance of power between local control and EU control, then I hope the people of the UK will come back to the issue of EU membership again, 10-15 years from now. Then these same young people who may have failed to vote this time will have their chance again.
4
One gets tired of the straw man arguments that leaving the EU means the end of trade, travel, study, immigration, etc etc. Preposterous. Are the Swiss, Norwegians, Canadians, Americans and Australians all "isolated" because they don't belong to the EU? They all trade, travel, study and accept immigrants. But they do it on their own terms. Called sovereignty.
13
The only identity that was rejected is that of young people who aren't engaged and don't vote. If vote turnout was even a plurality of under 30's Brexit would have been roundly defeated. Instead, they must have assumed their social media 'vote' really mattered and stayed home.
They can still do all of those transnational things they like, but they had better figure out what real voting is.
The New York Times could do a great service for all by focusing on this part of the story, rather than a narrative of identity loss.
They can still do all of those transnational things they like, but they had better figure out what real voting is.
The New York Times could do a great service for all by focusing on this part of the story, rather than a narrative of identity loss.
7
There is nothing stopping anyone from studying abroad and working abroad, it just won't be as easy or cheap. Which I suspect is the younger crowds gripe, they are being (oh, the shock, the horror), inconvenienced. These young people seem to forget that Britain existed and prospered, long before the EU and they will again. It has been a rocky 38 year marriage and sometimes in marriages, what you really need, is a divorce.
10
I, at 74, am tired of old people. Not the chronologically old, but people with old attitudes, old issues, and old ways of thinking. And old people who forget history or bend it to a nostalgic neverland that never was. What was, in the 20th Century, was a lot of disastrous nationalism. Old politicians and generals sent a generation of young men to the killings field of World War I. The old men of Versailles in large measure created the conditions that led to the deaths of tens of millions in World War II, conditions that led to the rise of fascism and worse. A very old man named Hindenburg let democracy be destroyed in Germany. Old men in the US Senate rejected the League of Nations. I'm not saying that young people cannot do terrible, wretched acts, or go insane with power. But often, too often, they have been misled by old men. And yet--and yet--the old if they shuck old resentments and old orders can, with their wisdom, do great things. Robert Schuman was 72 and Konrad Adenaur was 74 when they began the work that led to the EU.
8
My heart feels for these young people, and I really hope that the EU will find a way to keep the revolving doors open. Reading the comment section, it seems to me that many do not understand that this was one of the major reasons the EEC (European Economic Community) was first established through the Treaty of Rome in 1958. Two of its major long-term goals was to bring peace and establish a European identity. Personally, I think it has succeeded brilliantly.
And, contrary to popular belief, the young people described in this article are not the pampered offspring of the elite. Nothing could be further from the truth. Many commenters seem to believe that the European university systems are similar to the U.S. system, and also seem to assume that it takes a ton of money to study in another EU country. That is simply not true. Many EU countries have little to no tuition, and Erasmus+ contributes approximately 500 Euros per month to living expenses to students studying abroad but within the EU.
I grew up in Europe and went to university during EEC times. I was probably among one of the first generations to benefit from the opening of the borders. While going through High School in Germany, I did a study-abroad semester in France. When studying at a German university, I did two 6-months stints in the UK to improve my English. I consider myself European more so than German, and feel at home anywhere on this planet. And this is the only way you will ever achieve world peace.
And, contrary to popular belief, the young people described in this article are not the pampered offspring of the elite. Nothing could be further from the truth. Many commenters seem to believe that the European university systems are similar to the U.S. system, and also seem to assume that it takes a ton of money to study in another EU country. That is simply not true. Many EU countries have little to no tuition, and Erasmus+ contributes approximately 500 Euros per month to living expenses to students studying abroad but within the EU.
I grew up in Europe and went to university during EEC times. I was probably among one of the first generations to benefit from the opening of the borders. While going through High School in Germany, I did a study-abroad semester in France. When studying at a German university, I did two 6-months stints in the UK to improve my English. I consider myself European more so than German, and feel at home anywhere on this planet. And this is the only way you will ever achieve world peace.
6
Brexit reflects two ideological and economic visions prevailing in the Western world.
The continental European model of economic/social inclusion and the British/American of unfettered ultra efficiency capitalism. Winner takes all.
The European model is no longer financially sustainable while the American/British cannot be socially/politically supported by the working middle class.
GB's exit means the remaining 27 EU member countries can return to basics.
That is, wealth creation must be distributed in an equitable way between labor/capital and among social classes.The trick is how that noble objective can be achieved in over indebted countries.
Meanwhile, a political, generational and social divided UK must find a way out of a labyrinth created by Brexit. The current economic/social model will certainly be revised and adjusted accordingly.
Now, as far as the young generation, a deal can certainly be agreed upon UK/EU to continue this unique cross-cultural experience brought about by the Erasmus program. No need to panic and carry on, lads.
The continental European model of economic/social inclusion and the British/American of unfettered ultra efficiency capitalism. Winner takes all.
The European model is no longer financially sustainable while the American/British cannot be socially/politically supported by the working middle class.
GB's exit means the remaining 27 EU member countries can return to basics.
That is, wealth creation must be distributed in an equitable way between labor/capital and among social classes.The trick is how that noble objective can be achieved in over indebted countries.
Meanwhile, a political, generational and social divided UK must find a way out of a labyrinth created by Brexit. The current economic/social model will certainly be revised and adjusted accordingly.
Now, as far as the young generation, a deal can certainly be agreed upon UK/EU to continue this unique cross-cultural experience brought about by the Erasmus program. No need to panic and carry on, lads.
5
Mr. Guery: "We are disgusted that this might be the trigger for the destruction of the only good thing that these governments have done in 50 years: peace.”
4
Mr. Guéry seems to have forgotten about the violent disintegration of Yugoslavia.
4
Yugoslavia, as part of the formerly Communist sphere, is not a representative example. WESTERN Europe, the NATO nations, the EEC nations, experienced an unprecedented period of peace following WW2.
Yes, there were problems. It wasn't the shining city on the hill. Troubles in Ireland. ETA. Bader-Meinhof ...
But there is no denying the lasting peace between western European nations is a great legacy from the leaders who led us out of WW2.
Yes, there were problems. It wasn't the shining city on the hill. Troubles in Ireland. ETA. Bader-Meinhof ...
But there is no denying the lasting peace between western European nations is a great legacy from the leaders who led us out of WW2.
1
HHP: "Troubles in Ireland. ETA. Bader-Meinhof ..."
Thanks for that list. I forgot about ETA. We could also add Islamic terrorism and the war against Libya. The point is that, when discussing "peace" and "Europe", it is very easy to define the terms in a way that eliminates all violence from the discussion.
Thanks for that list. I forgot about ETA. We could also add Islamic terrorism and the war against Libya. The point is that, when discussing "peace" and "Europe", it is very easy to define the terms in a way that eliminates all violence from the discussion.
1
I was listening to a farmer/horticulturalist on BBC World Service the other night, (from Lincolnshire - an area which voted overwhelmingly to leave) talking about how she employs 1 Brit and 7 Poles. Reporter said 'Why don't you employ more Brits?" and she said "I advertise the jobs but no one applies..." My sister, who still lives in the UK told me a similar tale, of a TV show in her region of eastern England, where they tried to persuade a group of the unemployed to take vacant agricultural jobs (picking, packing etc.) and most barely lasted a day, never mind a week. Boston Lincolnshire, a town that voted 75% to leave, and which I knew quite well as I lived in the area 20 years ago, used to have many store fronts vacant and was a totally depressing place, now has a bustling economy and relatively low unemployment based on the immigrant economy (Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians) working in agriculture. A British nurse on the radio last night: "Half the staff in this NHS hospital are EU migrants.." The list goes on... I can only assume the UK will be going on a diet if they throw out the people who grow the food - and they better stay healthy. I live in California now, in a farming area. Trump may talk about 'those Mexicans' but I'd love to know who will put the food on the supermarket shelves if he throws out them out. Because I cannot recall EVER seeing a white person working in the fields around here.
14
"I advertise the jobs but no one applies..."
How much is the advertiser offering to pay? My guess is that those are low-wage jobs.
How much is the advertiser offering to pay? My guess is that those are low-wage jobs.
7
Read an article saying one Cali farm owner offered $15/hr and still couldn't get any whites. I can't explain why whites from Poland or Baltic states are OK with farming. But I do believe that here, unless you're from a farming family like in the Midwest, your idea of a future is naturally in anything but farming.
Latino immigrants arrive with lower education levels are willing to squeeze as many as possible into a dwelling and make do on their wages. It's the different attitude from having grown up in conditions most Americans don't know.
Latino immigrants arrive with lower education levels are willing to squeeze as many as possible into a dwelling and make do on their wages. It's the different attitude from having grown up in conditions most Americans don't know.
3
Good point. I'm guessing the average British young person has a higher level of education and higher career expectations (higher purely in financial terms), while immigrants from formerly Communist eastern European countries may or may not have had the education and certainly don't have the opportunities in their own countries. So they go where there ARE jobs, even relatively low paying jobs.
If Eastern Europe had been able to do more since the fall of the Berlin Wall to lift itself out of inefficiency and poverty the picture would look very different. I have several Romanian friends and have traveled there a few times. It is abundantly clear that institutionalized corruption is holding that country back, and its people suffer because of it.
If Eastern Europe had been able to do more since the fall of the Berlin Wall to lift itself out of inefficiency and poverty the picture would look very different. I have several Romanian friends and have traveled there a few times. It is abundantly clear that institutionalized corruption is holding that country back, and its people suffer because of it.
1
All this talk here and elsewhere of overturning the referendum result is a reminder of the anti-democrtic nature of many "EU"-fanatics.
We were denied our referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. Other countries had their referenda igmnored or were forced to rerun it until they got the "right" result.
Van der Bellen, the Austrian who "won" the first round of the recent presidential election stated that he would not swear in an FPÖ Prime Minister or ask the FPÖ to form the government.
The Austrian election is going to be rerun because of "irregularities".
It is vitally important that Van der Bellen should not win as his actions could lead Austrians to think they had no alternative to violence to get their democratic rights if the FPÖ is ever wins a general election.
Too many "EU"-fanatics have absolutely no sense of democracy.
The UK and other countries need to get out and stay out.
We were denied our referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. Other countries had their referenda igmnored or were forced to rerun it until they got the "right" result.
Van der Bellen, the Austrian who "won" the first round of the recent presidential election stated that he would not swear in an FPÖ Prime Minister or ask the FPÖ to form the government.
The Austrian election is going to be rerun because of "irregularities".
It is vitally important that Van der Bellen should not win as his actions could lead Austrians to think they had no alternative to violence to get their democratic rights if the FPÖ is ever wins a general election.
Too many "EU"-fanatics have absolutely no sense of democracy.
The UK and other countries need to get out and stay out.
5
Seems freedom of movement has been a rallying cry of globalization, but the reality is that it is all just rhetoric. It is much easier for low wage and low skilled workers to move to Europe, than it is for high skilled ones. The home health care worker, from both in and out of the EU, moves easily, yet the high skilled non-EU ones have a next to impossible task. The developed world resists the immigrants that should be most attractive. These are ones with skills and education. They will assimilate and contribute much easier than low skilled ones from the developing world.
6
It is reported 64% of younger voters were so disinterested in rhe EU that they didn' bother to vote. Like wise the turnout in Glasgow, the largest city in Scotland, had a very low turnout....
6
The generational divide regarding Brexit was evident before the vote but there was a huge uncertainty as to who would win. A look at the statistics shows that for all their passion for the EU, the young did not come out to vote in the numbers that the older, LEAVE voters did.
At the end of the day (in a democracy) it does not matter how passionately you believe in a cause if you don't follow that up by exercising your right to vote.
At the end of the day (in a democracy) it does not matter how passionately you believe in a cause if you don't follow that up by exercising your right to vote.
8
The only price that will be paid is by the EU as it crumbles. We are all at fault for teaching young people this stupid multiculturalism and pretending we are all one beautiful cozy world ruled by....well we don't know. These lovely ladies will have a run in with the large Muslim population in Berlin at sometime. Let's see what you will report then.
8
Unfortunately, the anger built up because some were left behind due to globalization has caused them and others to be blinded by what is now and what might lie ahead. Unequal schools due to geographical settings, industries that had environmentally lost their need, incredibly backward legislation that did not want to recognize the world was evolving in a different direction....all have led to a generation feeling they've been left behind, and now one that feels they won't even get started. The chase for the dollar, the hoarding of dollars at the expense of all so that I " have mine"! Blame everyone and everything for my misfortune and/or bad decisions.....that's the ticket. Then expect a charlatan to save you on either side of the Atlantic. We get what we deserve.
4
I recently edited a translation from French of a discussion of European values -- there was massive ambiguity and confusion (and misuse) of words like national identity (versus European identity.) I puzzled, unaware, over "mobility," later learning this literal translation should be translated as "freedom of movement." Freedom of movement is the core EU concept that Britain has rejected. In pragmactic terms, freedom of movement is important for "trade in services, as Simon Wren-Lewis points out: https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk We take freedom of movement from state in the US for granted. Without it, we wouldn't be united.
In that text I also found the discussion around national and European identity/values wanting. The core value of the EU is peace, the belief that people mingling, crossing borders, will not take up arms against each other. Article 3 of the Lisbon Treaty should be extolled by EU members as our Constitution is extolled by us – their foundational document. http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-european-un...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33655318
When the concept that is at the heart of the EU -- peace -- and it's connection to inclusion is explained vaguely, it can anger an English speaker, like me. I joked to a friend in London that I too was now ready to vote for Brexit after reading that vague and annoying account of nationalism, European values, and "mobility."
In that text I also found the discussion around national and European identity/values wanting. The core value of the EU is peace, the belief that people mingling, crossing borders, will not take up arms against each other. Article 3 of the Lisbon Treaty should be extolled by EU members as our Constitution is extolled by us – their foundational document. http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-european-un...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33655318
When the concept that is at the heart of the EU -- peace -- and it's connection to inclusion is explained vaguely, it can anger an English speaker, like me. I joked to a friend in London that I too was now ready to vote for Brexit after reading that vague and annoying account of nationalism, European values, and "mobility."
1
"... a discussion [in French] of European values ..."
Could you post a citation? (title, author, publisher, date)
Could you post a citation? (title, author, publisher, date)
1
blablabla, older voters......64% of the young voters stay away from the elections....so the older are guilty because they went to the election?
The most people in the most european countries are against the european community. Does not matter which country. The reason for this is not a total national thinking, the reason is a construct of non-demoncratic bureaucracy in Brussels. Means you will find in Brussels discarded politicians and there family members of the countries. There is a big gap between - and it is getting bigger by minute - between politicians and people....they are more and more on different planets....could not works if the politicians ignore the people. Very simple.
The most people in the most european countries are against the european community. Does not matter which country. The reason for this is not a total national thinking, the reason is a construct of non-demoncratic bureaucracy in Brussels. Means you will find in Brussels discarded politicians and there family members of the countries. There is a big gap between - and it is getting bigger by minute - between politicians and people....they are more and more on different planets....could not works if the politicians ignore the people. Very simple.
5
Times: "... according to a European Union report."
The linked report, "Erasmus: Facts, Figures & Trends", does not have any financial statements, so it is basically EU propaganda.
The linked report, "Erasmus: Facts, Figures & Trends", does not have any financial statements, so it is basically EU propaganda.
3
Only 36% of the young voters bothered to go to the polls. Where were the others? Why didn't they vote? With the close vote on this issue, they could have had a strong voice for their own future. Yes, they had the carpet yanked from under their feet, but perhaps they were spending too much time looking at their cellphones, and not paying attention to the real world.
5
Oh, Please!!! Yet another article abusing the fact that most of the youngsters who did vote voted Bremain. Isn't there a single journalist curious enough to wonder whether all those who didn't vote (the great majority) would have voted the same?
5
There was already some exchange before the Erasmus generation, and it was at a lower level.
In my parents generation, the Norden Association sent allergic Danish children to longer stays with Norwegian families in the mountains, and and at least one former Grini prison camp prisoner to a Danish farm, creating bonds between families. At the same time, Swedes opened their homes, giving children from bombed Germany pleasant holidays. Already earlier, during the war, they had opened up their homes to Finlandish children, who might have had it better if they had stayed in Finland, but the intent was good.
From the 50s a common Nordic labour market emerged, drawing many people, especially Finlanders, to booming Sweden. Later turning to a stream of people to heated Norway, especially Swedes, Poles and Baltics, the latter two groups because of the later common EEA labour market.
In addition, young people already during the 70s had the opportunity to travel relatively cheaply across Europe, with a eurail pass, in addition to the family car trips. For some this was supplemented with a year at an American high school.
Even later, we have shorter and longer stays at language schools, and at least in Sweden the ability to get cheap study loans, corresponding to the ones for national studies, for studies abroad, combined with the exchange programs being born.
In addition there has been a substancial non Western emigration to many west European countries.
”Oldy”
In my parents generation, the Norden Association sent allergic Danish children to longer stays with Norwegian families in the mountains, and and at least one former Grini prison camp prisoner to a Danish farm, creating bonds between families. At the same time, Swedes opened their homes, giving children from bombed Germany pleasant holidays. Already earlier, during the war, they had opened up their homes to Finlandish children, who might have had it better if they had stayed in Finland, but the intent was good.
From the 50s a common Nordic labour market emerged, drawing many people, especially Finlanders, to booming Sweden. Later turning to a stream of people to heated Norway, especially Swedes, Poles and Baltics, the latter two groups because of the later common EEA labour market.
In addition, young people already during the 70s had the opportunity to travel relatively cheaply across Europe, with a eurail pass, in addition to the family car trips. For some this was supplemented with a year at an American high school.
Even later, we have shorter and longer stays at language schools, and at least in Sweden the ability to get cheap study loans, corresponding to the ones for national studies, for studies abroad, combined with the exchange programs being born.
In addition there has been a substancial non Western emigration to many west European countries.
”Oldy”
Your location is "Nordic Countries". Do you see yourself as Nordic or as European?
I am both, and pro EU, even if I am against some aspects of the EU like English and French politicians, as well as the lack of the Nordic right to move about freely in nature.
I am Nordic in the context that I have close relatives in four of the Nordic countries, at the same time as I have grown up in one Nordic country but work in another. My father's wife's family is more north west European, while some Danish relatives hardly would cope outside their own region.
My uncle's wife is Polish, my cousin's daughter Kurdish-Swedish, two other relatives Danish-Indian (India), and three quarter Romani ("Gypsy"). I have had teachers, fellow students, and collegues from many countries, includingg non Western ones.
In addition I have gone to a French language school for nine months, and been at a Swedish university's, then 25 year old, department at an English red brick university for one year.
I might be Nordic, but I do not feel foreign in the rest of Europe, even if it could be hard to work in some parts of Europe, due to language and culture. Then, I could probably feel at home in many Anglo countries as well, if it was not for the lack of social security in some of them.
I could also fantasize about probably being some percent belonging to an extinct group of Sami, or of being one eight Jutlandic Jew, but those forefathers left little of their culture.
PS! My nephew has studied in New Zealand, with a Iranian-Asian-American girlfriend, and my poor niece is often in Japan.
I am Nordic in the context that I have close relatives in four of the Nordic countries, at the same time as I have grown up in one Nordic country but work in another. My father's wife's family is more north west European, while some Danish relatives hardly would cope outside their own region.
My uncle's wife is Polish, my cousin's daughter Kurdish-Swedish, two other relatives Danish-Indian (India), and three quarter Romani ("Gypsy"). I have had teachers, fellow students, and collegues from many countries, includingg non Western ones.
In addition I have gone to a French language school for nine months, and been at a Swedish university's, then 25 year old, department at an English red brick university for one year.
I might be Nordic, but I do not feel foreign in the rest of Europe, even if it could be hard to work in some parts of Europe, due to language and culture. Then, I could probably feel at home in many Anglo countries as well, if it was not for the lack of social security in some of them.
I could also fantasize about probably being some percent belonging to an extinct group of Sami, or of being one eight Jutlandic Jew, but those forefathers left little of their culture.
PS! My nephew has studied in New Zealand, with a Iranian-Asian-American girlfriend, and my poor niece is often in Japan.
1
Martin: Thanks for your very informative reply. Could say more about "the Nordic right to move about freely in nature"? Is that a right guaranteed by law or a right established by tradition? Do people who are not Nordic have that right when they are in Nordic countries?
The Brexit referendum should provide an object lesson to young people everywhere of the importance of active participation in their own democracies. If youthful populations leave it to their elders to make decisions, there is no assurance that they will keep youth interests in mind with their votes. That's the way democracies work.
Today, British youth complain that their parents and grandparents let them down. Maybe so, but more tellingly, young people let themselves down. Less than 50% of the 18-34 demographic bothered to turn up at the polls. In the 18-24 population the voting participation was 36%. By contrast, voters 65 and over participated at over 80%.
This same phenomenon characterizes American voting. Young people, you have been blessed with the democratic privilege of voting. Seize the opportunity, or button up your complaints under a Trump presidency, an obstructionist Congress and a neanderthal Supreme Court!
Yes, here in America we have one party dedicated to suppressing your vote but the GOP is an equal-opportunity suppressor. Republicans make it hard for the elderly to vote, too, but the elderly are more persistent in surmounting the partisan barriers. Young Americans, please for your own sakes don't let this old geezer down!
www.endthemadnessnow.org
Today, British youth complain that their parents and grandparents let them down. Maybe so, but more tellingly, young people let themselves down. Less than 50% of the 18-34 demographic bothered to turn up at the polls. In the 18-24 population the voting participation was 36%. By contrast, voters 65 and over participated at over 80%.
This same phenomenon characterizes American voting. Young people, you have been blessed with the democratic privilege of voting. Seize the opportunity, or button up your complaints under a Trump presidency, an obstructionist Congress and a neanderthal Supreme Court!
Yes, here in America we have one party dedicated to suppressing your vote but the GOP is an equal-opportunity suppressor. Republicans make it hard for the elderly to vote, too, but the elderly are more persistent in surmounting the partisan barriers. Young Americans, please for your own sakes don't let this old geezer down!
www.endthemadnessnow.org
4
I'm outspoken in my criticism of how financial and political elites have wrecked livelihoods in the name of globalization, which in its present form is designed to move capital to wherever it can make the fastest buck. So I should be against the EU, right?
Wrong.
I understand why people voted for Brexit; the EU is not perfect and it has to some extent been hi-jacked by the very forces I oppose. But I grew up in aftermath of WW II, and remember what the vision of bringing Europe together was all about - making sure nothing like it would happen again.
Too many of the older generations' memories have faded; they let themselves be swayed by the Johnsons and the Farages determination to blame the EU for all ills rather than fix it. If Brexit stands and the EU ends up unraveling, I fear that the hostility that led to wars in the past will once again be rekindled.
Wrong.
I understand why people voted for Brexit; the EU is not perfect and it has to some extent been hi-jacked by the very forces I oppose. But I grew up in aftermath of WW II, and remember what the vision of bringing Europe together was all about - making sure nothing like it would happen again.
Too many of the older generations' memories have faded; they let themselves be swayed by the Johnsons and the Farages determination to blame the EU for all ills rather than fix it. If Brexit stands and the EU ends up unraveling, I fear that the hostility that led to wars in the past will once again be rekindled.
4
And herein lies the disconnect. Only 47% of UK youth attend college ( recent UK govt. numbers and from Guardian (2013) "Most people in the UK do not go to university – and maybe never will"). This group in this article highlights two things: 1: their lifestyle does not apply to many in the same age group living in the UK and 2: the lack of a college education leads to fewer job prospects and mobility. These two factors no doubt contributed to the job security/fear of immigration theme in Brexit. I would love to see a Brexit voting breakdown that in addition to age - looked at the correlation between Brexit majority and unemployment and amount of higher education. Only then, do I think a better picture will emerge. The issues that confronted many Brexit voters I suspect are the same ones we see here....loss of job opportunities and the fear how to make ends meet.
7
The problem is simply the fact that these young Eurocrats are extremely privileged. The problem is that they do not know it. The problem is they simply do not understand that most people (and their children) have been completely locked out of the wonderful, stimulating, lovely lives these gilt edged, pampered are living. The problem is that the "masses" are becoming increasingly aware of this. That is why Brexit happened in the UK and will be happening throughout the EU as well.
10
Globalization has made the world a smaller place and the same people who were once fearful of their neighbors in the next town are now fearful of the people from the next country. Sometimes people are just looking for an excuse and it's easier to blame 'them' instead of looking inside themselves and asking hard questions. In the long run I believe this nationalism will recede when we effectively deal with economic disparity.
4
this is why Brits voted to leave: this story is all about the 1%. Erasmus students concerns about their yuppie future, all the while the 80% flounder unnoticed, unthought of, while the NYT etc ponder the status of the cute n pretty
elite
pathetic
elite
pathetic
8
I had no idea that texting, Facebook, Skype, and EasyJet would all disappear. Wait, they DIDN'T disappear.
The attitudes displayed in this article are reinforcement that Brittons made the correct vote. Nobody lost their identity because of this, one can still have an Irish or nor region boyfriend, and what's worse the article in accurately portrays that the United Kingdom was in the common currency which it is not.
The attitudes displayed in this article are reinforcement that Brittons made the correct vote. Nobody lost their identity because of this, one can still have an Irish or nor region boyfriend, and what's worse the article in accurately portrays that the United Kingdom was in the common currency which it is not.
2
This sounds resentful!
2
This article and others in the Times bemoaning the disruptions of Brexit, reeks of privilege, centering on those who can jet about from place to place in their exchange programs visiting their international set of friends from equally privileged backgrounds. Not a word about the desperate populations in the world whose suffering made these privileged European lives possible. No recognition of the desperate refugees from American, French, and British inspired bombings in the last few years. No mention of those still living the negative results of European colonial exploitation. No mention of the genocidal invasions of Africa, America, and much of Asia that robbed wealth to Europe and North America. No mention of the massive slavery that brought wealth to Europe and is the legacy that still fuels the privileged. No mention of those who inconveniently live where American and European bankers would like to invest in oil pipelines or extract minerals. No mention of working class Europeans whose jobs were destroyed in the globalized bankers' rampage.
No doubt that those who are used to jetting about during their youth now worry about which immigration line they will have to join at airports. The horror. But couldn't they include, when they write op-ed pieces in the NY Times, a bit of recognition about how their privileges came about, about how the the desperate of the world must be included in their concerns? Let their internationalist concerns include the poor and desperate.
No doubt that those who are used to jetting about during their youth now worry about which immigration line they will have to join at airports. The horror. But couldn't they include, when they write op-ed pieces in the NY Times, a bit of recognition about how their privileges came about, about how the the desperate of the world must be included in their concerns? Let their internationalist concerns include the poor and desperate.
18
Quite right. For this concept to work, much soul-searching needs to occur for people to understand just what they're trying to accomplish.
For example, until Adam Hochschild's book King Leopold's Ghost was written, I believe that the Belgian did not get why the Congolese hated them so, and had no idea that their beloved King Leopold was responsible for the genocide of 10 million Congolese. They saw his lovely African museum, the trains built from the death of Africans, and believed he was a great guy. It was a down-to-earth honest Brit who exposed the lie in that wonderful account.
For example, until Adam Hochschild's book King Leopold's Ghost was written, I believe that the Belgian did not get why the Congolese hated them so, and had no idea that their beloved King Leopold was responsible for the genocide of 10 million Congolese. They saw his lovely African museum, the trains built from the death of Africans, and believed he was a great guy. It was a down-to-earth honest Brit who exposed the lie in that wonderful account.
4
Sounds awful familiar doesn't it? Conservative governments whether it be the USA, Germany or Britain. They have brought his on their selves. Where ever austerity rear it's ugly head it has failed time and time again, Why must we repeat the mistakes of the past over and over again? Plain and simple austerity never ever has worked unless you are a rich person. They live off of us poor suckers who vote for them. Until we settle for the best person to vote for like a Bernie Sanders it will happen again. As the old axiom goes history repeats itself.
4
"They have brought his on their selves."
Brought what on? Please cite the article.
"Until we settle for the best person to vote for like a Bernie Sanders it will happen again."
Sanders advocates free tuition at public colleges and universities. Do you approve or disapprove of his proposal?
Brought what on? Please cite the article.
"Until we settle for the best person to vote for like a Bernie Sanders it will happen again."
Sanders advocates free tuition at public colleges and universities. Do you approve or disapprove of his proposal?
There is no reason these educational programs cannot continue under a Brexit model. Young people deserve every opportunity we can give them to have a productive and fulfilling life. As a former career counselor, I believe that improving education models is the one thing that can save the world from dangerous ignorance.
For older workers and retirees to be resentful or jealous of today's youthful opportunities is the height of selfishness!
For older workers and retirees to be resentful or jealous of today's youthful opportunities is the height of selfishness!
5
I'm not sure what you mean by "a Brexit model", but the article says that some non-EU members are "allowed to participate" in the Erasmus program, so Britain could, presumably, also participate as a non-EU member. The article fails to say anything about funding, so it is not clear how much it would cost British taxpayers if Britain were to participate.
1
The EU needs a different English noun to describe itself than "project." The word project sounds like a narrowly focused activity, limited in time or scope. When I think of a project, I think of cleaning out the fridge, reupholstering the dining room chairs on a rainy Sunday, maybe building a dam or a road, or some business activity -- some activity that is short-term. The EU, I thought, was more akin to nation-building, the building of a federation of member states, like the United Nations or even the United States. If we referred the UN, or the US, as a "project," it would telegraph that the UN and the US are not intended to last forever (even they really will not, believing that they will helps individual members to commit).
I would argue that the EU, like the UN and the US, should refer to itself as more than just a project; it needs an English word that communicates something stronger, something serious, something that telegraphs commitment, not just an activity to work on together for a while.
I wonder if using this oddly lightweight word to refer to the union of European nations (nation states?) made it harder for English speakers to take the EU seriously, to believe in the dream, a noble dream that came out of WWII and which their great leader Winston Churchill championed.
I would argue that the EU, like the UN and the US, should refer to itself as more than just a project; it needs an English word that communicates something stronger, something serious, something that telegraphs commitment, not just an activity to work on together for a while.
I wonder if using this oddly lightweight word to refer to the union of European nations (nation states?) made it harder for English speakers to take the EU seriously, to believe in the dream, a noble dream that came out of WWII and which their great leader Winston Churchill championed.
2
I find many of the comments about an 'elite younger generation' disheartening as well as uninformed. My bilingual, bicultural daughters belong to this generation and have benefited from the EU, studying in the UK, working in other EU countries, and developing an international network of friends. They work hard, but have to be frugal because their salaries are barely enough to pay rent in shared accomodation. When ask where they are 'from', they would answer they're European. They are committed to making the communities they live in better for everyone, regardless of their nation of birth. They are open and empathetic and eager to learn with and from their European friends and colleagues. The relationships their generation (and those of all of us of any age who live this international life) are the hope for a more harmonious future.
74
"...developing an international network of friends...They work hard..."
Translation: They 'party hard'.
Translation: They 'party hard'.
4
Exactly. The elite have always had access to international opportunities. The Eu makes these accessible to everyone in the Club. I'm 50 but was born an American who became a Birit. The EU allowed me to fulfil lifelong dreams of working internationally. The Britain I adopted no longer exists. I'm grateful that with British, American and German passports that my daughter will continue to have opportunities. But now rather than being just an ordinary Joe, he is one of the privileged few.
Some day, we are going to have to get to a world where there are no borders, a single working language, a single currency, a single world government, etc. To do that, we are going to have to put national sovereignty issues to a lower level to those of the world government. We have imperfect examples of this now in the US, the former USSR, the British Commonwealth, the EU, to mention some current examples. The Roman Empire might have been a historical example. The UN is not really a government but it has some useful elements.
The loss of national sovereignty is probably the main stumbling block as it was in Brexit. If we can get past that, the rest will likely follow much more easily. Some sort of federal type system might be a good starting point where nations preserve their local and cultural identities within the federal framework which would gradually increase in importance over time. Ultimately, cultural identities would become historical in nature, but that would take time. This would have to be a multigenerational project. The first generation would think about the need for it. The next generation would talk about how to do it. The third generation would start the process of going about doing it. Etc. We have a lot to build on already, but not enough yet.
We have the communications tools in place now, but we still do not have the right broadly held attitudes yet.
The loss of national sovereignty is probably the main stumbling block as it was in Brexit. If we can get past that, the rest will likely follow much more easily. Some sort of federal type system might be a good starting point where nations preserve their local and cultural identities within the federal framework which would gradually increase in importance over time. Ultimately, cultural identities would become historical in nature, but that would take time. This would have to be a multigenerational project. The first generation would think about the need for it. The next generation would talk about how to do it. The third generation would start the process of going about doing it. Etc. We have a lot to build on already, but not enough yet.
We have the communications tools in place now, but we still do not have the right broadly held attitudes yet.
4
I fully reject your vision and will spend my life working against it.
4
JPDuffy3 - I second your opinion. We are all inevitably moving towards globalization anyway, so the world should take a thoughtful, gradual and non-violent approach to this next step of human evolution.
I am over 50. Many people of my generation and older are finding them ill adjusted to the modern world. There are so many different new technologies that can be difficult to comprehend. There are different lifestyles of the young that are difficult to accept. The younger generations no longer go to church regularly and even worse Mosque are popping up everywhere. As the new generation takes a more global identity, we see that our cherished cultural identities based on countries and races recede to the background. The world are just moving too far for us and it must slow down. I understand all that but GROW UP. This fear, discontent, maladjustment with the changes of the world are the same in all ages. GROW UP. We are nothing specially. Our parents and our grandparents made similar adjustments. GROW UP. We have on average 20-30 more years left on this world. Who are we to remake the world in our teenage fantasy at the expense of the young. That is plain selfish. We are at an age to ask what will be left as the legacy of our generation. Do not take the world backward because of our insecurities. GROW UP.
6
The day of the vote (so before the results came out) I realised what the EU had done for me on a very personal level. Thanks to Article 45 of the Treaty of Rome (free movement of workers), I had met my husband and had my child. My husband moved to London to find work as a French citizen because there were no issues trying to get a visa (the other option was Germany, but his English was better than his German). I was born in South Africa but has a British passport by descent, and because my mother had the foresight to register me before the citizenship rules changed. Neither of us are from privileged backgrounds. My husband's parents were refugees and worked their way out of a council estate, and mine are regular lower middle class.
We have both contributed to the UK in terms of taxes paid (we're net contributors - HMRC now provides a handy annual breakdown of how the money has been spent) and through the work that we do. It's sad to realise that this means nothing to many Brits who just see us as "foreigners" coming to destroy their culture
We have both contributed to the UK in terms of taxes paid (we're net contributors - HMRC now provides a handy annual breakdown of how the money has been spent) and through the work that we do. It's sad to realise that this means nothing to many Brits who just see us as "foreigners" coming to destroy their culture
14
I also do not understand the bitterness in numerous comments here. Isn't what the article described what we had hoped for our own youth? Live and work in different countries, have international friends? Maybe some readers are just jealous. I never had that experience in my 20s, that is why I am learning French now in my 40s, trying to capture some of those spirits. So what if they use their parents money? I would gladly support my children for a couple of years in Europe if I can. That is part of being young, idealistic, or "naive". Let them be.
14
I have many French friends some as close as family. These friendships were made before and during the time the EU was a political union and the it was a trading block of nations called the European Economic Community. Those friendships will prevail, our mutual its to weddings and anniversaries will prevail. My love for La France profound will never change.
Like wise I have Belgium friends of many years and with whom I have stood in remembrance at the Menin Gatein Ypres, where each evening, 365 days the Belgiums pay a moving and remarkable tribute to the many thousands of British WW1 dead.
One of my daughter-in-laws is quarter French, another is Polish, another half Scots. The Brexit vote in my family was not about hate for Europeans or turning our back on Europe. It was about self determination and freedom to conduct our own affairs. It was about our government deciding who can come and work and live in Britain and not for the EU's free for all. Mrs Merkel's invitation to all those undocumented middle eastern people was the final straw.
I suggest that all EU supporters go to You Tube and watch "Brexit The Movie". You might just change your minds.
Like wise I have Belgium friends of many years and with whom I have stood in remembrance at the Menin Gatein Ypres, where each evening, 365 days the Belgiums pay a moving and remarkable tribute to the many thousands of British WW1 dead.
One of my daughter-in-laws is quarter French, another is Polish, another half Scots. The Brexit vote in my family was not about hate for Europeans or turning our back on Europe. It was about self determination and freedom to conduct our own affairs. It was about our government deciding who can come and work and live in Britain and not for the EU's free for all. Mrs Merkel's invitation to all those undocumented middle eastern people was the final straw.
I suggest that all EU supporters go to You Tube and watch "Brexit The Movie". You might just change your minds.
7
Boris J who led Leave to victory has already ignored the result by simply walking away. The UK has no effective political leadership.
7
I have a lot of friends who have studied in Erasmus programs. Generally they take the bus to where they will be studying. They live in the cheapest accomadations possible. They work very very hard to learn new languages and cultures. Their family incomes are probably one-fifth to one-sixth of the people denigratong them here. Free or low-tuition higher education is what makes a fantastic program like Erasmus possible.
The bitterness and resentment in these comments is just mind boggling. I'm so glad I live in a society that supports educational opportunities for young people.
The bitterness and resentment in these comments is just mind boggling. I'm so glad I live in a society that supports educational opportunities for young people.
19
Average youth unemployment in the EU is 19.4% with more than half of EU countries above 20%:
http://www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-...
The U.K. is at 13.4%. Which begs the question, who loses most by Brexit? Why, Europe, of course. Comparatively, U.K. youth never had any real benefit criss-crossing for work. And with them out, dwindling for the rest of Europe too.
Which begs the next question, why the hue and cry? Why, free sex and drugs of course. Which sounds a lot like the Hippie and Yippie movements of the 60s, minus the long hair, beards and visits to Indian Sadhus, and plus Twitter, Facebook, WhatsApp, and free roaming.
Interestingly the Hippie movement originated in the UK and US. Brexit is therefore a ripe moment and place to herald Hippie v2.0 jointly by UK and American youth, thus cementing our special relationship even further. After all, American youth also cannot freely move and work across borders in Europe. Together the time is here for these youth to thumb their noses at the EU, travel across continents and invoke global free movement.
To the disenchanted youth of the UK and US, I say the world is your oyster. The only thing that's stopping you is roaming fees. Heck, that's what Starbucks* and rich daddies are for
* Free Wifi not available everywhere. Slow-slurping charges may apply some locations.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-...
The U.K. is at 13.4%. Which begs the question, who loses most by Brexit? Why, Europe, of course. Comparatively, U.K. youth never had any real benefit criss-crossing for work. And with them out, dwindling for the rest of Europe too.
Which begs the next question, why the hue and cry? Why, free sex and drugs of course. Which sounds a lot like the Hippie and Yippie movements of the 60s, minus the long hair, beards and visits to Indian Sadhus, and plus Twitter, Facebook, WhatsApp, and free roaming.
Interestingly the Hippie movement originated in the UK and US. Brexit is therefore a ripe moment and place to herald Hippie v2.0 jointly by UK and American youth, thus cementing our special relationship even further. After all, American youth also cannot freely move and work across borders in Europe. Together the time is here for these youth to thumb their noses at the EU, travel across continents and invoke global free movement.
To the disenchanted youth of the UK and US, I say the world is your oyster. The only thing that's stopping you is roaming fees. Heck, that's what Starbucks* and rich daddies are for
* Free Wifi not available everywhere. Slow-slurping charges may apply some locations.
2
PS - Tony Blair's answer to globalisation is to 'get an education'. There is no question that an education is important in life (so is luck, and timing), but check out Tony Blair's school - Fettes College in Edinburgh (yes, he's Scottish not English) - check out the fees, and then ask yourself what kind of elitist perspective he also has on life.
4
Incredibly elitist perspective on the world. How many people have the life opportunities you have had Ms Breeden? Don't try to make out a 'European way of life' is under threat. The only thing 'under threat' it is your privileged lifestyle, not the lifestyle of the ordinary people on this planet. NM in NY- you make the point that 'England's young people have been let down'. Most young people in England never had and will never have opportunities like those in this article. I had some of those opportunities myself - I lived in Berlin at the expense of the EU on an 'Erasmus' exchange, but that doesn't make me want to forget about my national identity, or forget about my fellow citizens who have to compete against the 350,000 plus migrants arriving every year on this tiny cramped island, from across the EU, many unskilled, attracted here in a way that English people are not attracted there (wherever there may be) because English is the world's language and because a large part of there is failing economically. Neither does it make me want to forget about sovereignty and democracy, commodities which the EU is sadly lacking. The reality is that, after Brexit, the elites will still be able to move freely around the EU and elsewhere in the way that they do at the moment - if they have a skill that's in demand, and the elitist connections and money to be able to afford to live in the world's exclusive little bubbles (London and NYC to name but two).
7
I used to be called a "Maine chauvinist" when I was young. But I've given up my regional identity. Consider how "globalized" Americans are -- it's hard to find big differences between Americans (except for those caused by educational differences and ideologies). Yes, there is a loss of cultural identity and language differences, but if that loss buys peace, isn't it worth it?
If you have a long-term view, Italian, French, and Spanish are really just updates of Latin. So, one language. And around 150 years ago, wasn't Italy mostly dialects, ditto German. The Brothers Grim unified German using Latin rules of grammar -- to unite it.
If English will be the unifying language of Europe, it's a huge loss to "the project," that Britain is removing itself from the dialectic.
If you have a long-term view, Italian, French, and Spanish are really just updates of Latin. So, one language. And around 150 years ago, wasn't Italy mostly dialects, ditto German. The Brothers Grim unified German using Latin rules of grammar -- to unite it.
If English will be the unifying language of Europe, it's a huge loss to "the project," that Britain is removing itself from the dialectic.
1
Other than an individual's sense of identity I fail to understand the significance of the article. In the United States, foreign students compose up to 25 percent of most top public universities, study abroad programs are a part of all major universities, cheap flights to foreign countries are as prevalent as low fare domestic flights and hopefully Congress will eventually pass a rational immigration bill that will permit a worker program for foreign nations. As for the remaining issues, terrorism will eventually require less movement among EU nations and any minimal student subsidy could be paid out of pocket or scholarship for the ambitious student willing to put the effort into finding the proper match. Brexit is not the end of the world and will require a bit of adjustment for all parties involved.
2
"“One thing I’ve always really felt a strong connection to, with Europe"
So have I, being a mixture of five European nationalities, having studied at a number of continental universities, having got the highest grade possible for the local folk-dancing at one of them and having taught in 2 continental "EU"-countries.
We just don't need the nauseating "EU" for any of that.
The "EU" is not Europe.
So have I, being a mixture of five European nationalities, having studied at a number of continental universities, having got the highest grade possible for the local folk-dancing at one of them and having taught in 2 continental "EU"-countries.
We just don't need the nauseating "EU" for any of that.
The "EU" is not Europe.
6
"Splitting Britain from the European Union may put a damper on future changes important to this globalized generation, like the move toward a single European digital market for movie and music streaming, and the end, by next year, of cellphone roaming charges when crossing European Union borders."
None of that is worth a flip of European beans compared with the disadvantages we have suffered where I come from: Portuguese drugs gangs, Romanian handbag snatching gangs, pick-pocket gangs from where I know not, gang-rapists from one of the Baltic states rapoing a 16-yeart old girl filming it and laughing.
And undoubtedly more of which I am unaware.
And then there are the exciting goings-on here in Germany:
Break-ins are up largely due to criminals from other countries but also due to Georgian gangs- Once they get inside the "EU" it is too easy to move about.
None of that is worth a flip of European beans compared with the disadvantages we have suffered where I come from: Portuguese drugs gangs, Romanian handbag snatching gangs, pick-pocket gangs from where I know not, gang-rapists from one of the Baltic states rapoing a 16-yeart old girl filming it and laughing.
And undoubtedly more of which I am unaware.
And then there are the exciting goings-on here in Germany:
Break-ins are up largely due to criminals from other countries but also due to Georgian gangs- Once they get inside the "EU" it is too easy to move about.
5
When 500 million climate refugees flee the MENA region because of increased temperatures, dust storms, prolonged heat waves, droughts -- many more coming by mid-century, probably to Europe -- the pickpockets will seem inconsequential, I imagine.
https://www.mpg.de/10481936/climate-change-middle-east-north-africa
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/opinion/sunday/the-deadly-combination-...
https://www.mpg.de/10481936/climate-change-middle-east-north-africa
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/opinion/sunday/the-deadly-combination-...
1
' “At best, we are going to be allies” — friends, but no longer family. “It feels less like home.” '
It never felt like home.
It only ever felt like a prison.
It never felt like home.
It only ever felt like a prison.
3
"Young adults are now grappling with what Britain’s vote to exit the European Union means for their profoundly European way of life. For them, it is perfectly normal to grow up in one country, study in another, work in a third, share a flat with people who have different passports and partner up without regard to nationality."
People did all of that before there was an "EU"
My mother moved to England from Europe before 1933. Almost the whole of her class of just qualified cooks did.
They didn't need the "EU" and we don't need it now.
People did all of that before there was an "EU"
My mother moved to England from Europe before 1933. Almost the whole of her class of just qualified cooks did.
They didn't need the "EU" and we don't need it now.
4
Indeed my French ancestors started out as Danish Normans moving to England, back to France then Germany and the Nether lands before coming to North America. The impetus was the desire to conquer one country and the rest were the result of religious persecution. I am the product of seven different European "unions".
Yet I am still an American and intend to stay that way. You hear that North American Unionists?
Yet I am still an American and intend to stay that way. You hear that North American Unionists?
"There is Erasmus, the European Union program that organizes and subsidizes student exchanges among universities across its 28 countries and elsewhere. "
There were student exchanges before countries were in the "EU". We don't need an "EU"-parliament, "EU"-passports, too-easy extradition to dodgy countries, Europol, the "EU"-Kommission, a common agricultureal policy, too-easy movement for terrorists andf other criminals, the amazingly destructive Euro or the "EU"-flag flying in the UK to have student excahnges.
We just don't need the "EU"
There were student exchanges before countries were in the "EU". We don't need an "EU"-parliament, "EU"-passports, too-easy extradition to dodgy countries, Europol, the "EU"-Kommission, a common agricultureal policy, too-easy movement for terrorists andf other criminals, the amazingly destructive Euro or the "EU"-flag flying in the UK to have student excahnges.
We just don't need the "EU"
8
It would have been so much more powerful to read about young Europeans finding meaningful experiences abroad by working to alleviate poverty or engaged in some other social good created by the EU. Fashionable youth sipping drinks on a balcony with tax-funded programs is hardly the kind of image a working class mom in northern England would find to be a good argument to "remain".
4
Coffee? Maybe she can dream that her kids can do that too, one day. Or could have dreamed of that. Not now.
More resentment.
More resentment.
1
I spent the and 80s touring around the world and had great experiences, and I came from a poor working family. I am now rich, writing incidentally, from Bolivia on my latest trip. This is not resentment; it is simple social justice. The EU is great for the privileged, but it left the working folks worse off. Democracy + screwing the working middle class = Brexit.
One correspondent has written "England's young people, who largely supported remaining in the European Union, have been let down." This sums up the article too.
There is far too much of this "have been let down" mentality supporting victimhood and powerlessness. I write from the UK and can tell you that it would have been impossible for anyone who cared about our EU membership not to know about the referendum. The fact is the young people just didn't care enough to vote (only 40% turned up).
I know many young people who wanted to live in a country that makes its own laws - and they voted accordingly.
As to the older people, you have to remember that they have lived many decades in a UK outside the EU. They have tried the EU, compared it with independence, and the majority have declared for "Leave".
These older people were epitomised by the WW2 veteran who lodged a postal vote a few days before he died, declaring he was voting for the future of the country he had fought to defend in his youth. Selfless through and through. He may have been mistaken, but there was no selfishness in his motivation.
There is far too much of this "have been let down" mentality supporting victimhood and powerlessness. I write from the UK and can tell you that it would have been impossible for anyone who cared about our EU membership not to know about the referendum. The fact is the young people just didn't care enough to vote (only 40% turned up).
I know many young people who wanted to live in a country that makes its own laws - and they voted accordingly.
As to the older people, you have to remember that they have lived many decades in a UK outside the EU. They have tried the EU, compared it with independence, and the majority have declared for "Leave".
These older people were epitomised by the WW2 veteran who lodged a postal vote a few days before he died, declaring he was voting for the future of the country he had fought to defend in his youth. Selfless through and through. He may have been mistaken, but there was no selfishness in his motivation.
4
‘Brexit’ Bats Aside Younger Generation’s European Identity
And not just the younger generation’s. I’m pushing 75, British by birth, and living in Bulgaria on U.S. Social Security. When I heard that ‘Brexit’ had won, I felt like a Vermonter would feel if they learned that their state had seceded from the United States and henceforth New York, the Midwest, Texas, the Rocky Mountains and California would be in a foreign country. It was, and remains, an extremely disturbing feeling.
And not just the younger generation’s. I’m pushing 75, British by birth, and living in Bulgaria on U.S. Social Security. When I heard that ‘Brexit’ had won, I felt like a Vermonter would feel if they learned that their state had seceded from the United States and henceforth New York, the Midwest, Texas, the Rocky Mountains and California would be in a foreign country. It was, and remains, an extremely disturbing feeling.
28
Shame. So the poor dears can't hop on a jet to experience the minor differences between life in London, Amsterdam or Cologne. What a travesty.
But here's a thought: if they really want to experience true diversity, rather catch a flight to Accra, Caracas or Dhaka, not to a place which is 98% the same as what they are used to.
But here's a thought: if they really want to experience true diversity, rather catch a flight to Accra, Caracas or Dhaka, not to a place which is 98% the same as what they are used to.
7
The young must rise up like the young in France...go to the streets. Demand a new election. Reverse the stupidity, the fraud, the deception. Throw the bums out.
The other choice....an eviscerated GB. Scotland will leave for the EU and so will Ireland. Money and brains are already leaving. England has become a fop, mindless, uninformed, all puffed up like hooligans at a soccer match The held a referendum and stupid won. Go to the streets....your future depends on taking action.
The other choice....an eviscerated GB. Scotland will leave for the EU and so will Ireland. Money and brains are already leaving. England has become a fop, mindless, uninformed, all puffed up like hooligans at a soccer match The held a referendum and stupid won. Go to the streets....your future depends on taking action.
3
As a millennial I can affirm those girls in the photo are cute.
1
Poor Mr Guery... elite, affluent Millennial Eurohipster has never been angrier in his life??? Not even after Charlie Hebdo? Not even after the November bombings in Paris?
I'm in a state of terminal vertigo from my eye rolling.
I'm in a state of terminal vertigo from my eye rolling.
5
It's a little dumb and sanctimonious all this commentary that the vote is over and they better accept it. Democracy is democracy, and it continuous in theory even today in Great Britain (well, actually it's Parliamentary Sovereignty, but that's a separate argument). Just because they had a vote to leave the EU, or to jump off a cliff or buy bangers for all, doesn't mean they can't have another vote with a different result. Anyone remember Prohibition - don't I recall some amendment that threw that one out? Or does anyone remember the Thirteenth Amendment; it pretty much reversed course on the Constitution itself. (Actually, that's what an Amendment does.) Do the Brexit Eternal commentators suggest we should have stuck with our vote and stayed dry for eternity? People change their minds, and countries change their minds. There's a reason, especially for important decisions, to recheck our individual decisions, and for the same reasons the British would be fools not to recheck their vote on something so substantive.
England didn't mind open borders when they were invading and exploiting other countries all over the world; now that they can help pay back for some of the destruction, they close the door. You'd think the rest of Europe would say good riddance; and take your crappy cuisine with you.
3
Quite right. It sounds like a case of sour grapes.
obviously these are all emotional arguments, but maybe that is now important than the economic ones.
I am from the generation before the one described here. my father was the last year that was drafted to the war. he also didn't 3 years as s political prisoner in GDR. not one day my parents let me forget what events responsibilities we as Germans had in two wars. not a moment was I allowed to believe that I was German, but not foremost European. I am glad to see that the young adults tidy live this naturally.
how glad was I during the 2006 world cup to see how 1000s of foreigners had a great time in my country, and that young Germans would wave their flag proudly, but not heinously. so I thought this truly was the end of the 2nd WW, that truly the order has changed, and that Germany could again be recognized as a force for good in the world and EU.
I hope that this doesn't become the beginning of the 3rd world war.
true, we must create economic realities that work for all citizens. but greatness has never spawned from need alone, but only from dreams. and as dreams go, a united Europe certainly was, and still is, a daring one.
I am from the generation before the one described here. my father was the last year that was drafted to the war. he also didn't 3 years as s political prisoner in GDR. not one day my parents let me forget what events responsibilities we as Germans had in two wars. not a moment was I allowed to believe that I was German, but not foremost European. I am glad to see that the young adults tidy live this naturally.
how glad was I during the 2006 world cup to see how 1000s of foreigners had a great time in my country, and that young Germans would wave their flag proudly, but not heinously. so I thought this truly was the end of the 2nd WW, that truly the order has changed, and that Germany could again be recognized as a force for good in the world and EU.
I hope that this doesn't become the beginning of the 3rd world war.
true, we must create economic realities that work for all citizens. but greatness has never spawned from need alone, but only from dreams. and as dreams go, a united Europe certainly was, and still is, a daring one.
1
The younger generation of the European Union are brainwashed as the first and second generations of the Soviet Union were.The British decided to be free of the iron fist of Brussels.
2
Soon there will be a rerun of the presidential election in Austria. The right wing party, whose major platform is exit from the EU, is projected to win.
The Dutch, in every poll on the subject over the last few years, have shown a desire to leave the EU.
Denmark will also probably leave.
From then on, it will be an avalanche of peoples all over Europe forcing their nations to leave.
At the end of all of this the EU, which was predicated on the strange belief that the many European nations, all with separate cultures, many languages and disparate histories, could simply be another United States, will be another relic of history.
The British people will be the true heroes who had the courage to call the bluff of the faceless Belgian bureaucrats and hasten their long deserved demise.
The Dutch, in every poll on the subject over the last few years, have shown a desire to leave the EU.
Denmark will also probably leave.
From then on, it will be an avalanche of peoples all over Europe forcing their nations to leave.
At the end of all of this the EU, which was predicated on the strange belief that the many European nations, all with separate cultures, many languages and disparate histories, could simply be another United States, will be another relic of history.
The British people will be the true heroes who had the courage to call the bluff of the faceless Belgian bureaucrats and hasten their long deserved demise.
5
Unfortunately, the elderly and those with a grievance have done a grave disservice to the young of Britain as is going to be increasingly apparent as the years role by.
2
Expanding the border can only help in the long run. The irony is that people fought bitter wars for centuries doing that but now they recoil for it when they find a peaceful way to do it
4
I am broken hearted that the upper elite of European Society won't be able to hop on a jet and go see friends in the UK or vice versa.
If the Erasmus Program is worthwhile there is no reason for the EU not to allow UK students to participate in it and the UK should be open to letting EU students study in the UK.
As for Nationalism and War - the EU will not be able to stop some would be dictator from going to war is he can convince his country to attack another country.
Are these young people really that naive ?
If so maybe the EU should be dismantled.
If the Erasmus Program is worthwhile there is no reason for the EU not to allow UK students to participate in it and the UK should be open to letting EU students study in the UK.
As for Nationalism and War - the EU will not be able to stop some would be dictator from going to war is he can convince his country to attack another country.
Are these young people really that naive ?
If so maybe the EU should be dismantled.
30
@John Brown
Idaho
You people are so small. Hundreds of thousands of young people move around in Europe to study, wait tables, do charity work. They're not all members of the elite.
Idaho
You people are so small. Hundreds of thousands of young people move around in Europe to study, wait tables, do charity work. They're not all members of the elite.
7
What are you trying to say? Nobody is naive in this article they are just trying to express that a certain group of people has moved past many national and cultural borders (also in their minds) just like in the US (but maybe even further reaching). The EU is able to influence its member countries and the internal peace of the last decades is not a coincidence...
2
I don't get why these young people think they cannot fly back and forth to Europe now -- isn't that what passports are for?
1
Does the writer realize that Norway isn't in the EU? The anecdote offers some evidence that a Britain outside of the EU can still be a part of the European community in the same way that Norway or Switzerland are.
18
Unfortunately, neither Switzerland nor Norway are suitable role models for a future British relationship with the rest of Europe, because both let EU citizens live and work there in exchange for unfettered access to the single market. Moreover, both contribute to the EU budget, helping to finance development in poorer areas of Europe -- including in Brtain, of course.
The British (or at least slightly more than half of those who voted) evidently don't want to do this anymore. Somehow they think they should be able to dine at the club without paying their dues or following the rules.
The British (or at least slightly more than half of those who voted) evidently don't want to do this anymore. Somehow they think they should be able to dine at the club without paying their dues or following the rules.
3
Yes, but both Norway and Switzerland signed the free movement of persons agreement, allowing any EU citizen who finds a job to move there. As far as I understand this freedom is exactly what Leavers are most opposed to. Switzerland is trying to negotiate some exceptions to this after a vote against "mass immigration" last year, but Brussels is being firm and Swiss students and universities would lose Erasmus if no solution is found. The relations between Norway or Switzerland are also the fruit of decades of negotiations between its governments and Brussels. It is likely that renegotiating relations between Great Britain and the EU will take many years. For young British people who study and look for their first jobs this will be terrible.
2
Their breathtaking self-absorption, callous disregard for what the EU has not done for millions of their countrymen, and their complete disregard for the massive problems the hugely flawed EU has fostered internally and externally, are predictable and disgusting. Most of them couldn't find an old suffering mill town like Oldham on a map. They feel European not British? I suggest they give up their cushy London lives and move to, say, Romania. They'll find out the differences among EU nations very quickly. Did anyone ask them what they thought of Merkel single-handedly selling the EU to a fascist dictator in Turkey who is moving the country back to the 15th century? Do they care that because Merkel's Mistake put the hands of Erdogan around the EU's windpipe?
Good god - no wonder Britain is in the shape it is in. And the problem isn't the desperate working-class in Sunderland.
Good god - no wonder Britain is in the shape it is in. And the problem isn't the desperate working-class in Sunderland.
54
What facts about the horrible impact of the EU to their countrymen are you referring to? Is there any sound evidence that suggests that Sunderland is worse off because of the EU and would have done better in another setting? Of course there have been economic losers since the establishing of the EU but there have been plenty more winners. On the contrary to you, I and many of the generation described in the article have been to Western and Eastern countries in the EU many times (e.g. Romania) and we are aware of the different winners and losers. The EU has its shortcomings, no doubt about that but there is no evidence or real life example (CH and NO are no templates for others for many reasons) that the member countries as a whole would do better without it... I am happy to consider any sound arguments that suggest otherwise...
2
@Elizabeth,
I agree with you on Turkey. As for the "small" people in old mill towns, their lives will not improve after Brexit. Mill towns all over the first world were replaced by mills in China or India. Globalization, Big Bang, it all started in London. Great Britain is and has been a class society, and the upper classes do not have sympathy for the lower class. After Brexit it will be more difficult to blame the EU for own shortcomings but i would not be surprised if the Brits somehow will find a way to continue doing so.
I agree with you on Turkey. As for the "small" people in old mill towns, their lives will not improve after Brexit. Mill towns all over the first world were replaced by mills in China or India. Globalization, Big Bang, it all started in London. Great Britain is and has been a class society, and the upper classes do not have sympathy for the lower class. After Brexit it will be more difficult to blame the EU for own shortcomings but i would not be surprised if the Brits somehow will find a way to continue doing so.
2
It is clear that anyone over 30 should be denied the vote. The millennials are the future and we should do what they say.
12
I'm 54 and I actually repeatedly said that nobody over 55 should be allowed to vote as it wasn't their futures being decided. Make it 50, but vote again without the older generation and their desire to wind back the clock to the age of Miss Marple and black and white tele. They don't want a future. They want the past. What short memories they have.
2
I am one of the spoiled generation that some commenters talk about, who was privileged enough to enjoy an Erasmus year and is happy to have many cross-border friends. And as a citizen of a net payer to the EU I am proud to make my contribution to benefit those members of the union who aren't as lucky as me. What's with the hate of some of the commenters here? Has isolating anyone ever gotten us anywhere?
59
With people like you, there is hope.
As Paul Krugman once wrote in the NYT, Florida is the american Greece. It only survives because of the rich states' transfers. This is exactly what happens within the EU, wealthier countries helping their poorer neighbors. Not always perfect, room to improve but the direction is right and yes, why so many hate comments? Are they coming from people who despise the mobile Americans just as much?
As Paul Krugman once wrote in the NYT, Florida is the american Greece. It only survives because of the rich states' transfers. This is exactly what happens within the EU, wealthier countries helping their poorer neighbors. Not always perfect, room to improve but the direction is right and yes, why so many hate comments? Are they coming from people who despise the mobile Americans just as much?
2
Get back to us in another 30 years, when your 'net payer' status has gotten you nothing but the misery of watching your 'new' neighbor game the system.
Though anecdotal, two NYT articles illustrate examples of the winners in the global, corporate economy and perceptions of what the EU means to some.
James Stewart’s article, “After ‘Brexit Finding a New London for the Financial World to Call Home” discusses “the race...to be the new London.” An executive is quoted: “When I moved to London years ago, it wasn’t exactly cosmopolitan....It wasn’t a place for great restaurants...infrastructure has improved dramatically...."
This reads as - why bother to care about a place as it only exists to ensure benefit to the “winners?”
Neil Irwin’s article “How a Quest by Elites Is Driving ‘Brexit’ ...discusses that “elites” have not necessarily been concerned with economic equality.
He writes “economic efficiency isn’t all it’s cracked up to be" and cites an “experiment at Yale Law School, an elite bastion… Among the Yale students who played the game, 80 percent preferred efficiency to equality. They were more worried about the size of the pie, apparently, than making sure everyone got a slice….One underlying explanation may be that, if the system has been kind to you….so you don’t worry about widening the distribution of outcomes.”
But he reminds “…there’s an obligation to think about individual lives. Life isn’t just about money, and jobs aren’t just about income. A sense of stability, of purpose, of social standing — all these things matter in ways that economic models don’t do a very good job of taking into account”
James Stewart’s article, “After ‘Brexit Finding a New London for the Financial World to Call Home” discusses “the race...to be the new London.” An executive is quoted: “When I moved to London years ago, it wasn’t exactly cosmopolitan....It wasn’t a place for great restaurants...infrastructure has improved dramatically...."
This reads as - why bother to care about a place as it only exists to ensure benefit to the “winners?”
Neil Irwin’s article “How a Quest by Elites Is Driving ‘Brexit’ ...discusses that “elites” have not necessarily been concerned with economic equality.
He writes “economic efficiency isn’t all it’s cracked up to be" and cites an “experiment at Yale Law School, an elite bastion… Among the Yale students who played the game, 80 percent preferred efficiency to equality. They were more worried about the size of the pie, apparently, than making sure everyone got a slice….One underlying explanation may be that, if the system has been kind to you….so you don’t worry about widening the distribution of outcomes.”
But he reminds “…there’s an obligation to think about individual lives. Life isn’t just about money, and jobs aren’t just about income. A sense of stability, of purpose, of social standing — all these things matter in ways that economic models don’t do a very good job of taking into account”
18
Or as Bobby Kennedy once wryly pointed out, "GDP measures everything except the really important stuff."
17
The reactionary Brexit foolishness is just a bump in the road. Young people are traveling the world everywhere, connecting cultures and languages and creating something new, different and better.
11
And they are doing that without the "EU"
"foolishness"
Being in a union with Italy and all those other dodgy countries is foolish
"foolishness"
Being in a union with Italy and all those other dodgy countries is foolish
1
The generational divide should include a fourth "E": Evaluation. Those UK voters who voted to LEAVE the EU did not carefully evaluate the facts that would have exposed the blatant misrepresentations and lies that were spread. This lack of curiosity for the details behind these and other broad-brush claims is a bigger problem than the potential fallout from Brexit or Trumpeters. Let's not waste our votes on wild claims without getting the facts. Facts withstand a brighter future after the votes are counted.
6
You mean like all the truths told to the American public by every presidential candidate during a campaign over the last 100 years? Really?!
8
I voted Leave after careful evaluation of the facts.
The young voted for Sander, the old for Clinton.
As in the UK the old won.
As in the UK the old won.
7
I'm sorry but why are we criticizing young adults who want to foster an international outlook and consider themselves part of a European community instead of more individual nations? I mean, we tried the nationalist thing and millions of people died, so I would think that as young folks come of age and want to consider themselves a community we should...encourage that?
But the comments here leave me scratching my head. There's an awful lot of bitterness here.
But the comments here leave me scratching my head. There's an awful lot of bitterness here.
84
Agreed. A lot of bitter, closed minded people who resent these educated and cosmopolitan young people. I'm almost 60 and have more in common with these young folks in EU than many people my own age. I'm a dual national and have lived in several countries for work and sometimes, pleasure. And no, my parents weren't rich and I've financed my own adventures in life since I was 18. It's called ambition and curiosity, something many Americans and fearful old Europeans could use a dose of. Better than sitting around playing video games and watching reality TV then wondering why others have it so good.
1
Yep. In addition, all the students I know who studied abroad in Europe did so on an absolute shoestring. Their family incomes probably are one-fifth to one-sixth (if not less) of the people commenting here from their enclaves of wealth in the US. They come out speaking foreign languages, knowing a thing or two about foreign cultures. But I guess in this petty Brexit environment, that already makes you an 'elitist' - even if your income is 500 €/month.
1
The economic fallout from leaving the EU will be devastating for the UK. In just over a week, the signs are appearing that the dreaded "experts" warned us of, which were ignored by the Leave campaign. These young people and their children will be the real losers and Britain will slowly be less influential and meaningful on the world stage. Not overnight of course, but there will be a slow decline. Many of the comments here are quite ignorant of factual information but ignorance seems to be trumpeted these days. The poorest most deprived areas of the U.K. all receive aid from the EU but the irony is the policies of Westminster and not Brussels, over the last 2 decades, that have contributed to the decline of these areas.
3
Tsk. tsk: They sound like Americans! Happy to be part of something big, that minimizes the differences between states and maximizes the strength and opportunities (not to mention peace and stability) that comes from size. You can still like your region best, but enjoy the camaraderie of commonality.
22
The students I knew in the Erasmus exchange program at the University of Stuttgart in Germany came from all over the EU and were hardly wealthy spoiled elites- as many people in the comments seem to assume. The vast majority were simply trying to broaden their horizons by living in another country, speaking another language, and (hopefully) thereby giving themselves an advantage in getting a job after school. No tuition fees and low living expenses meant they didn't have to be trust funders to do this. They had great times, difficult days, and met people from all over Europe and the rest of the world. The young workers I knew in London left countries like Italy and Spain, were earning next to nothing in that expensive city, scrimping and saving their pounds, living in cramped miserable flats, but were engaged in meaningful work in a vibrant city- something they could not find in their home countries. It's no different than a young person from the moribund Rust Belt coming to New York or Chicago to find a good job. It's about ambition, opportunity, and hustle. London and the U.K. are so much poorer for this decision, and a generation of Brits has had their dreams kneecapped by this shortsighted vote.
74
Very well said Schultzie! And the comparison to the US is a good one.
1
They are most definitely elites -- and, most importantly, so are their parents. Only people who come from secure economic backgrounds and have parents with the resources (money and connections) to provide the year in Switzerland or Berlin or Vienna or London can lead the lives that the people who are featured here enjoy. In all cases, Mommie and Daddy are either executives in international corporations or "involved" in higher level government. That is how they became Erasmus in the first place. From my reading these "Europeans" are busily collecting material for their impressive resumes or are adding to their enormous collection of useful contacts. From what I am reading here, they display is an awesome sense of entitlement. They show far too clearly what is wrong with modern Europe -- a lack of functional intelligence.
'... but were engaged in meaningful work in a vibrant city- something they could not find in their home countries...'
It is young people who should be the ones to change their home countries, rather than running away and expecting the benefits they have not earned.
How is this not more of the migrant's mantra of: "We wrecked our country. We like yours. Give it to us or we will take it and wreck that too."
It is young people who should be the ones to change their home countries, rather than running away and expecting the benefits they have not earned.
How is this not more of the migrant's mantra of: "We wrecked our country. We like yours. Give it to us or we will take it and wreck that too."
I confess I have not made my way through 168 comments. But the portrait drawn by Brexit is striking: there are millennials who have thrived in the EU, and there are others who have not. (Full disclosure: I would LOVE to be a 20/30-something in the EU today - the opportunities are tremendous.)
The big However is thus: just as Occupy Wall Street has drawn attention to the the "1%", attention is due to the voters who did not benefit from the EU. The young people who do not open their worldview to the disenfranchised risk further "XXexits".
The big However is thus: just as Occupy Wall Street has drawn attention to the the "1%", attention is due to the voters who did not benefit from the EU. The young people who do not open their worldview to the disenfranchised risk further "XXexits".
10
"Full disclosure: I would LOVE to be a 20/30-something in the EU today - the opportunities are tremendous."
Unemployment, especially amongst young people is high. Young people are emigrating out of the "EU" thus making the problem of an ageing population worse.
Health services and other public services are deteriorationg especially in Greece but even here in Germany.
Crime is increasing here in Germany because foreign gangs are targetting Germany.
The "EU" is run by people who have treated the people of Europe with contempt, do not understnd or resperct democracy and are very dangerous.
It could all end up with massive violence
The UK is right to leave asap.
Unemployment, especially amongst young people is high. Young people are emigrating out of the "EU" thus making the problem of an ageing population worse.
Health services and other public services are deteriorationg especially in Greece but even here in Germany.
Crime is increasing here in Germany because foreign gangs are targetting Germany.
The "EU" is run by people who have treated the people of Europe with contempt, do not understnd or resperct democracy and are very dangerous.
It could all end up with massive violence
The UK is right to leave asap.
1
Moving across borders without passport control and working anywhere within the EU creates an illusion of a unity that doesn't exist. The problems of the EU stems from the unwillingness of its citizens to cede anymore sovereignty to the EU and the consequential failure to politically unify. Moreover the euro currency union is probably doomed without political union. Brexit is a symptom not the cause of the EU's problems
15
Young people do not recall history. They will create history, making the same mistakes over again. A privileged and affluent generation they have been. But, barely give thanks for the efforts of their parents who made their easy lives possible.
8
I cannot speak for everybody in my generation, but most people I know are very conscious about how privileged we are to have grown up at a time of relative peace and affluence. And yes, we do recall history. The generation of my European friends' grandparents have fought each other in a war. What got us there? Nationalism. Do we really want to go back?
19
You're oversimplifying the reasons behind the Brexit. Even so, national sovereignty strikes me as a perfectly legitimate reason for leaving the EU.
Moreover, comparing the Brexit to the jingoism and hyper-nationalism of the 19th and early 20th century is both fatuous and intellectually lazy.
The inability (or unwillingness) to contemplate the real complexities behind the Brexit is yet another symptom of out of touch establishment groupthink.
Moreover, comparing the Brexit to the jingoism and hyper-nationalism of the 19th and early 20th century is both fatuous and intellectually lazy.
The inability (or unwillingness) to contemplate the real complexities behind the Brexit is yet another symptom of out of touch establishment groupthink.
1
Olive oil origin and purity labeling wouldn't seem so "stupid" to this young man if his family's olive groves had provided their livelihood for hundreds of years.
In fact, standardized olive oil labeling is an excellent case study of the usefulness of the European Community.
In fact, standardized olive oil labeling is an excellent case study of the usefulness of the European Community.
24
European Union geographical indications are suspect in their efficacy and are used as a trade tool in order to unfairly restrict equivalent foreign industries and indistinguishable goods. They're highly retrogressive.
5
These self centered young Europeans are living off the fat of the taxland, more concerned with their stipends than contributing to the economic that makes them possible.
As John F. Kennedy said, "Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you"..........or something like that.
As John F. Kennedy said, "Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you"..........or something like that.
14
That is one of the bitterly and safest comments I have ever seen on here. I didn't get what they have now but I certainly don't begrudge it to them in any way.
It is not easy to pretend you are united when in fact you are not. "The Zone" needs some serious work.
6
On YouTube you can watch the rants against Euro-immigration, then the simplistic "Brexit Movie" starring Farage where it's barely mentioned. The latter makes for effective anti-Brussels propaganda. It also shows that Brexit does have a clear strategy: engage BRIC -- pretty much it when you don't produce much. But production is supposed to happen elsewhere; the mouthpieces measure middle-class prosperity in terms of consumption.
How do middle-class earnings prosper in this situation? Answer: young workers no longer want to be tied to corporations, any more than corps want to be tied to them, and are all willing and ready to start their own businesses. Sound familiar?
Leave voters got played. There's no "isolationism" and no meaningful "nationalism" in the cats leading this charge, who will get fatter. Brexit is merely trading one set of elites for another. Yes, some corps and banks may well stop it; others are waiting and licking their chops. Blue-collar patriots won't see much change in their lives either way.
How do middle-class earnings prosper in this situation? Answer: young workers no longer want to be tied to corporations, any more than corps want to be tied to them, and are all willing and ready to start their own businesses. Sound familiar?
Leave voters got played. There's no "isolationism" and no meaningful "nationalism" in the cats leading this charge, who will get fatter. Brexit is merely trading one set of elites for another. Yes, some corps and banks may well stop it; others are waiting and licking their chops. Blue-collar patriots won't see much change in their lives either way.
15
I'm sure many great-grandparents and grandparents of children in Europe prefer the EU over the two World Wars. I'm sure they have stories to tell about nationalism.
33
So the choice is between an indivisible EU and World War III?
You might want to predicate your argument on something stronger than a false choice fallacy.
You might want to predicate your argument on something stronger than a false choice fallacy.
2
i teach in Europe every May/June. This article is wrong and reaaly just silly wishful thinking. The young graduate students and early career executives i teach all identify very quickly and strongly with their home country culture or, such as in the case of Sudtirol and eastern Switzerland, with their regio. of origin abd its culture. The American left and the Times especially seem fixated on presenting the EU as some sort of utopian harminization of peoples into a peaceful unity - it is mostly a free market and otherwise a failed and bloated buerocracy overpowered by the influence of Germany and Merkel. it is that now as it was two weeks ago before Brexit. if Merkel had not forced Germa. austerity on the PIGS and if the EU had not created a labrynth of hyper regulation of everything from minor variations in beer content to foams allowed in lillows then the EU would have functioned very well as an economic union - but that does not suit Berlin. the Times acting as if its the end of our favorite 60s commune dream is silly
35
You teach people from Südtirol?
Did you know that People of German and Ladinian origin feel as „(German) Südtiroler“ and those of Italian origin mostly as „Italians“? The „Deutschtiroler“ are cheering German soccer team the Italians the Italian one.
Young professionals love to stay in Südtirol because they makes it easy to serve both Italian and German markets. They are mandatory bilingual German/Italian and “right in the mid” position is absolutely perfect. If there was no EU this would be not possible.
They never tried seriously to reunite with Austrian “Nordtirol” when Austria was no member of EU because they would have lost all economical connections with Germany guaranteed by EU.
Most of the German Südtirolers have studied at Innsbruck University? When there was no EU approval of Non-EU graduations was a problem in Italy.
Ms. Merkel is still popular there because they always have compared her with traditional Italian politicians as Berlusconi. They also hate Italian spending policy. For Südtirol itself this is explicitly excluded by special treaties ( “Autonomieabkommen”) from the sixties on so Südtirol is one of the most wealthy regions in Italy.
Even if you talk with simple farmers or wood carvers they will tell you all about this after some weeks of knowing and acceptance. Because of their long term experience with occupation they are a little bit cautious.
I don´t know what you are doing but you don´t know anything about Südtirol.
Did you know that People of German and Ladinian origin feel as „(German) Südtiroler“ and those of Italian origin mostly as „Italians“? The „Deutschtiroler“ are cheering German soccer team the Italians the Italian one.
Young professionals love to stay in Südtirol because they makes it easy to serve both Italian and German markets. They are mandatory bilingual German/Italian and “right in the mid” position is absolutely perfect. If there was no EU this would be not possible.
They never tried seriously to reunite with Austrian “Nordtirol” when Austria was no member of EU because they would have lost all economical connections with Germany guaranteed by EU.
Most of the German Südtirolers have studied at Innsbruck University? When there was no EU approval of Non-EU graduations was a problem in Italy.
Ms. Merkel is still popular there because they always have compared her with traditional Italian politicians as Berlusconi. They also hate Italian spending policy. For Südtirol itself this is explicitly excluded by special treaties ( “Autonomieabkommen”) from the sixties on so Südtirol is one of the most wealthy regions in Italy.
Even if you talk with simple farmers or wood carvers they will tell you all about this after some weeks of knowing and acceptance. Because of their long term experience with occupation they are a little bit cautious.
I don´t know what you are doing but you don´t know anything about Südtirol.
2
I may not know much but I knew all of what you say - and it supports my post - the EU is best as an economic union. I teach at UI-SOWI and understand (actually alluded to) all of what you say about Sudtirolian cultural identity. They don't identify as "Europeans" (per the article) or Italians (per your post) - they're Sudtirolian! and the EU wasn't going to change that - it changed the economic freedom and connectivity. Graduations were never much of a problem and they're less so now but an article arguing that Brixet changed that is silly - travel between Italy and Innsbruck will remain unencumbered as will travel between London and Paris etc etc. You are actually supporting my point.
2
My daughter lives in London and shares a flat with 4 people from EU countries. They are not spoiled or rich; they all work full time and can barely afford their rent in a non-fashionable part of London. What they share is an international group of friends and work colleagues. Just by living their lives they are promoting harmony and world peace. They are open-minded and accepting. How can that be a bad thing for the world? It seems reverse snobbery to criticize these younger citizens of the
EU as somehow elite or spoiled. They are making the world a better place by the friendships and work relationships they create.
EU as somehow elite or spoiled. They are making the world a better place by the friendships and work relationships they create.
268
Your daughter's friends are part of the problem driving up the prices. They are extra demand. More demand with the same supply means a increase in cost. Your own beliefs prevent you from seeing the truth. A loft even in London would not go for that much if the visitors were not willing to fit that many people in a single loft.
5
Of the letters I have read so far, this one recognizes the benefits of young people
living and working across countries making the world better, and understanding how were are all different, yet alike in so many ways. In my youth, we thought we had no need for learning other languages. People everywhere speak English, we said. Boy were we wrong. And thank God we were.
living and working across countries making the world better, and understanding how were are all different, yet alike in so many ways. In my youth, we thought we had no need for learning other languages. People everywhere speak English, we said. Boy were we wrong. And thank God we were.
6
Thank you for this comment. Most of these commenters stereotyping young Europeans as spoiled and rich have probably never met one, and are obviously ornery old New Yorkers who aren't any different from the old Brits who voted for the good old days when everyone's faces were covered in grime from working in coal mines and factories. Kudos to your daughter and her friends for their open minds and hearts. Let's hope they can stay open and aren't forced into submission by reactionary, fearful conservatives who, lacking any imagination about how to make things better, cling to worn-out fantasies of the good old days.
48
The Erasmus program sounds wonderful, but the Times should have explained where the money to fund it ultimately comes from. Presumably, the answer is "EU taxpayers", but the word "tax" is never used in the article.
"... nonmembers [of the EU] like Iceland, Norway and Turkey are already allowed to participate."
Are those countries "allowed to participate" because they provide tax dollars to the program? How was their participation negotiated? Did the voters in those countries have any say in the matter?
"... nonmembers [of the EU] like Iceland, Norway and Turkey are already allowed to participate."
Are those countries "allowed to participate" because they provide tax dollars to the program? How was their participation negotiated? Did the voters in those countries have any say in the matter?
11
Yes, they have to pay into EU programs, though they have no say in how funds are allocated. That's how they decided to join (Iceland and Norway, Turkey is different). Now Britain will be following that example. Taxation without representation. Totally stupid move. But the youth are partly to blame for this mess. There are vastly more people under 50 than over, and because many of them decided to stay home on voting day, this is the disastrous result. Apathy among those most likely to be adversely affected by this was more powerful than the drive among the older, nostalgic generation to go back to the good old days that never were and that aren't coming back.
12
The whole Brexit affair shows the deep and abiding persistence of nationalism as opposed to transnationalism. We all have the conceit that we are citizens of the world. But remember, that phrase was coined at the end of the Second World War in felt solidarity with the masses of stateless refugees who were searching desperately for a country where they could be citizens. If they could not be citizens of a country, neither could he. But, unlike us, he had the courage of his convictions. He renounced his citizenship and became, like the miserable stateless people of post war Europe, a citizen of the world. One cannot know what it is to love the whole world unless one first knows what it is to love one person. One cannot know what it is to be a responsible member of a national community unless one first knows what it is to be a responsible member of a family. One cannot know what it means to be a citizen of the world unless one first has learned what it is to be a responsible citizen of a country.
6
How ironic that among the many writings of Erasmus are "The Praise of Folly" and "On Civility in Children".
5
I have a question. What are the "three E's" referred to towards the end of the article in reference to why one young man chose to study German? I tried googling it, but could not find any reference to "three E's" much less an answer. I've skimmed all of the comments and no one else seems to have asked this. Thank you in advance for an answer!
1
It's a term coined by the author in the first paragraph! (Referring to Erasmus, easyJet, and the euro.)
2
Apparently, I'm not the only one who reads news articles from the bottom up, because I had the same question. :-)
The "three E's" are listed in paragraph two (from the top): Erasmus, easyJet, and euro.
The "three E's" are listed in paragraph two (from the top): Erasmus, easyJet, and euro.
7
Thank you!
2
Failure to enforce any border will eventually destruct any country.
That's the real European problem.
That's the real European problem.
11
The unelected Bureaucrats wanted to form a United States of Europe whereby freedom of movement would give rise to Member States (each country in the European Union) having free trade among the union. In the '70s it was a case of a free trading bloc among member states, without, free movement.
3
Blame their parents, but cosmopolitan European youth, in their shocked ignorance, appear to be victims of generational self-delusion.
For 70 years Europe built exemplary national social structures and increasingly complex political structures courtesy of America's military umbrella. That has had the effect of allowing Europe to live in a bit of a fool's paradise, largely ignoring what was happening in much of the rest of the world, including in its own hinterlands, especially things which would soon dramatically affect Europe itself.
The Balkan wars should have woken Europe up to its inability to collectively cope with serious issues. Unfortunately, the opportunity was wasted.
Europe became focused through Brussels more on what ought to be than what is. Though people live in the "is", Brussels remained in the "ought", as mass migration, Russian adventurism, a disconnect between fiscal and monetary policy, and terrorism have all fairly quickly become impossible to ignore. As a result, the most worthy, noble, and important "European project" is seeing centrifugal forces rip it apart, as Europeans and their leaders forget why, after World War II, they began creating international structures in the first place.
The world needs a Europe with liberal, humanistic values to serve as a counter-balance to an America with similar values. Unfortunately, the odds of that continuing are diminishing quickly. Such values are not common in the world and presently not in the ascendancy.
For 70 years Europe built exemplary national social structures and increasingly complex political structures courtesy of America's military umbrella. That has had the effect of allowing Europe to live in a bit of a fool's paradise, largely ignoring what was happening in much of the rest of the world, including in its own hinterlands, especially things which would soon dramatically affect Europe itself.
The Balkan wars should have woken Europe up to its inability to collectively cope with serious issues. Unfortunately, the opportunity was wasted.
Europe became focused through Brussels more on what ought to be than what is. Though people live in the "is", Brussels remained in the "ought", as mass migration, Russian adventurism, a disconnect between fiscal and monetary policy, and terrorism have all fairly quickly become impossible to ignore. As a result, the most worthy, noble, and important "European project" is seeing centrifugal forces rip it apart, as Europeans and their leaders forget why, after World War II, they began creating international structures in the first place.
The world needs a Europe with liberal, humanistic values to serve as a counter-balance to an America with similar values. Unfortunately, the odds of that continuing are diminishing quickly. Such values are not common in the world and presently not in the ascendancy.
37
Thanks for a cogent and prescient comment on contemporary European follies.
3
While the European Union (EU), NATO and the UN failed in the 'Balkan War', aka, Aggressor Serbia getting away with war crimes a plenty against Bosnia in the '90s -- the EU had and continues to fail in doing something, anything, in regard to the migration crises.
4
While British youth certainly did their share of complaining about the perils of Brexit, when push came to shove, they could not be bothered enough to put down their gadgets and vote. Therein lies a lesson for America. Will our country's youth merely tweet, like, and whine about life, or will they show up in November?
The coming election will demonstrate whether our future will be determined by whiners or citizens.
The coming election will demonstrate whether our future will be determined by whiners or citizens.
30
The UK has been offered an "It's a Wonderful Life" moment when the consequences of what they are about to do are revealed and they are granted a second chance to decide whether to proceed with a self-imposed disaster.
While there is real frustration with immigration and EU bureaucracy, the Leave vote was driven by outright lies, fanned by the sensationalist UK tabloid press. With two of four UK countries voting against, 4 million petitions to revisit the vote, and polls revealing mounting opposition to Brexit, they would be insane not to reconsider.
While there is real frustration with immigration and EU bureaucracy, the Leave vote was driven by outright lies, fanned by the sensationalist UK tabloid press. With two of four UK countries voting against, 4 million petitions to revisit the vote, and polls revealing mounting opposition to Brexit, they would be insane not to reconsider.
14
Because when the elite do not like the outcome of a democratic vote, they get to demand 'do overs' until they get their desired results? How many? One? Five?
Shall we try that in the US too?
Shall we try that in the US too?
1
It's not actually clear from this article that Erasmus will be a casualty of the Brexit. Indeed, since non-EU member states participate, it's weird to think that it would be. What's more, Europe welcomes foreign exchange students from outside the EU. Of course they are not generously subsidized like Erasmus students, but then then this over-generosity with entitlements is undoubtedly one of the reasons that the European Union has such sluggish economic growth. It's completely plausible to imagine that the Brexit will ultimately contribute to a more dynamic Europe.
As an American who has tasted the glory of a carefree existence in Berlin as a 20-something, I sympathize with these cosmopolites. But it would be folly to base fundamental questions of politics on the sentimental attachments of the young and (presumably) flexible. There's no reason Brexit should entail apocalyptic or even especially mean consequences, so long as leaders use reason and take care to educate the public. The efforts of the last week to delegitimate and condemn the E.U. Referendum, by now a fait accompli, are most unhelpful.
As an American who has tasted the glory of a carefree existence in Berlin as a 20-something, I sympathize with these cosmopolites. But it would be folly to base fundamental questions of politics on the sentimental attachments of the young and (presumably) flexible. There's no reason Brexit should entail apocalyptic or even especially mean consequences, so long as leaders use reason and take care to educate the public. The efforts of the last week to delegitimate and condemn the E.U. Referendum, by now a fait accompli, are most unhelpful.
9
I wonder if these privileged young Brits even know that 19,240 British men died in one day alone 100 years ago this week at the Battle of the Somme. Apparently the young are more concerned about self-interest and maximizing the individual pleasures in their lives.
12
Sadly, your comment is an example of why young Europeans (and Americans) have no trust in our Baby Boomer generation. Millennials are not the lazy, ignorant of history, free spirits you tend to denigrate in your post, rather thay are open to change and are understanding of the impacts of the Brexit decision. The Boomer generation (of which I belong) has the tendency to want things to remain as they always have been- in my opinion Trump followers are a prime example- Make America Great Again is code for the Jim Crow days and the narrow mined xenophobic America First beliefs.
I trust my son's generation to make change with their eyes wide open. My son, by the way, is well aware of the impact of WWI, the Battle of the Somme and the America First decision - A movement that kept us from defending our allies in WWI until April 6, 1917. Let's not make the same mistake again.
I trust my son's generation to make change with their eyes wide open. My son, by the way, is well aware of the impact of WWI, the Battle of the Somme and the America First decision - A movement that kept us from defending our allies in WWI until April 6, 1917. Let's not make the same mistake again.
24
So we should go back to nationalism because millions of people were herded into dying for it 100 years ago? Would you rather that they be killing each other over stupid nationalism instead of "maximizing the individual pleasures in their lives"?
19
they should enjoy their lives but not at someone else's expense
3
Oh for heavens sake. I was traveling around the world in the 80's and 90's making friends everywhere. You don't need the EU for that.
76
Yes. I was doing it in 1968. And many American students do it today, studying not just in Europe but in the far East. The difference is that we did it, and the American kids do it, without tax-funded government subsidies.
5
like you I have travelled all over in the 80s and 90s. but traveling is different than living and working in a different place a I learned when studying in Sweden, England and France in the late 80s.
It's also very classist. I am 60; when I was young I lived in a very mixed income area so that I had quite wealthy friends and others were poor, working class, middle and upper middle class.
The wealthy and upper middle kids (this is to say, the 18-24 year olds of the middle 70s) had very ample opportunities to go to Europe, Israel, India, Australia and the like. They got to take semesters abroad in Europe. They were much traveled, and bragged about their "cosmopolitan" nature, and their many friends from far-off places.
The rest of us could not even dream of such a thing. We had to work every summer, to raise money for college and to pay our automobile insurance. Forget about the airfare -- we couldn't take a whole summer off! and forgo that part time job. And our parents would have laughed themselves silly at the very idea of paying for such stuff -- they were saving for their own retirements, or paying off the family home.
I suspect not much as changed on that score. I note that the author here, Ms. Breeden, was incurious enough she did not ask the young ladies about their economic/cultural backgrounds or how they financed their fun European adventures and romances. I also note she "found" two very attractive girls, in shorts and minidresses, so of course, none of these EU-trotting youngsters are plain, homely, poor or drably dressed.
The wealthy and upper middle kids (this is to say, the 18-24 year olds of the middle 70s) had very ample opportunities to go to Europe, Israel, India, Australia and the like. They got to take semesters abroad in Europe. They were much traveled, and bragged about their "cosmopolitan" nature, and their many friends from far-off places.
The rest of us could not even dream of such a thing. We had to work every summer, to raise money for college and to pay our automobile insurance. Forget about the airfare -- we couldn't take a whole summer off! and forgo that part time job. And our parents would have laughed themselves silly at the very idea of paying for such stuff -- they were saving for their own retirements, or paying off the family home.
I suspect not much as changed on that score. I note that the author here, Ms. Breeden, was incurious enough she did not ask the young ladies about their economic/cultural backgrounds or how they financed their fun European adventures and romances. I also note she "found" two very attractive girls, in shorts and minidresses, so of course, none of these EU-trotting youngsters are plain, homely, poor or drably dressed.
1
It's like breaking up a country, putting everyone back into little boxes. This Brexit seems to be a real step backwards, brought on by cynical politicians who blew things up by misreading the justifiable anger of the many who've been stomped on by globalization but don't have the knowledge to know who to blame nor what to do and are easily mislead by lying demagogues. Very sad. I hope the public succeeds in walking back this monstrosity. I say to those who voted Remain, those who voted Leave and now regret their vote and particularly to the young: keep fighting - the harder you push the more they have to give - you've got time, youth and justice on your side. Hammer them. Hard.
20
Bill
The problem with these victims of globalization is that they can't fight back in any other way.You are a part of the cognitive elite as all these globetrotting young people are and you can never understand the plight of the unfortunate who lost a good industrial job but do not have the age the ability or the time to become a corporate lawyer a web designer or IT professional etc.
I know i am being cynical but i had to answer to you
The problem with these victims of globalization is that they can't fight back in any other way.You are a part of the cognitive elite as all these globetrotting young people are and you can never understand the plight of the unfortunate who lost a good industrial job but do not have the age the ability or the time to become a corporate lawyer a web designer or IT professional etc.
I know i am being cynical but i had to answer to you
12
Philosopher Kenneth Burke put it well. If we were completely different, we couldn't communicate. If we were all the same we wouldn't have to communicate. This "dancing of opposites," being the same and different, is the classical invitation to communication, and to adventure. Why accentuate either extreme? Enjoy the challenge of being somewhere between and let a thousand flowers bloom.
4
I'm astoudned that the top comments here -- with the air of some kind of reverse snobbery -- mostly disparage this young generation and reveal an almost total ignorance of their nature. There are bizarre references to the Romanovs and statements that they young people have no commitment to place. I've never heard such rubbish. Americans are so quick to have opinions about things they don't understand and they are the last people who should be lecturing Europeans who, by and large, have a better quality of life. This is not some kind of zero sum game where these young people have to scrap their lives because their governments are not providing adequate support for the many workers and their communities wounded by globalization and the 2008 financial meltdown, caused primarily by a handful of greedy American bond traders etc.on Wall Street. It's not either or; it's both and. The best possible thing the world can have is the free movement of as many young people as possible, accepting of different cultures and more interested in shared friendship and collaboration.
120
Yes. I share Gerald's reaction. As we remember the Somme, the best way to assure it never happens again is to bring people together. Years ago a German friend of mine, who grew up just after WWII, told how for his daughters war with France was inconceivable.
18
Incredibly naïve missive, full of hackneyed sanctimonious Kumbaya gibberish. Instagram viral tripe shared amongst affluent privileged Millennial AmeroEurohipsters
Free movement= Charlie Hebdo
Free movement= Charlie Hebdo
1
Unless someone believes that the astronomical costs of health care, for one, are covered by some magical creature and therefore 'free', it is indeed a 'zero sum game'.
For one example, the US has many illegal immigrants who came here for 'free' dialysis and stay here there entire lives at a cost of $1 million + per person. Most are from Mexico, which does has a single payer system, but each citizen has to at least pay something and there are no comfy chairs, van service, and televisions for entertainment. Any attempt to return these patients to their native countries is met with a litany of lawsuits, so clinics finally wind up closing, leaving the local citizens with no access to the medical care they paid for their entire lives.
No country can have an unlimited flow of freeloaders whose only purpose is to game the system and steal what they have not earned.
For one example, the US has many illegal immigrants who came here for 'free' dialysis and stay here there entire lives at a cost of $1 million + per person. Most are from Mexico, which does has a single payer system, but each citizen has to at least pay something and there are no comfy chairs, van service, and televisions for entertainment. Any attempt to return these patients to their native countries is met with a litany of lawsuits, so clinics finally wind up closing, leaving the local citizens with no access to the medical care they paid for their entire lives.
No country can have an unlimited flow of freeloaders whose only purpose is to game the system and steal what they have not earned.
Perhaps they paid attention in history and don't want to go back to the bad old days of nationalism driven wars that broke the back of Europe. There will always be class divide, but the worse thing for the lower classes of Europe was wars. Let's not forget how many British and German youth died at the Somme.
Those living in poor areas may feel left behind, but that can be fixed through reform. Unrestrained nationalism is far more frightening.
Those living in poor areas may feel left behind, but that can be fixed through reform. Unrestrained nationalism is far more frightening.
21
Younger adults haven't fought too much for anything in their lives.
They don't have to get drafted into the wars. Fight for abortion rights. Or struggle with a number of issues already sorted out for them before they were born, mostly by their grandparent's generation. They are in short, entitled. Never having to fight for the rights they assume will always be there, they are shocked when something does not go their way. Do not they realize they must pick up the torch for the ongoing rights of all? Their futures are going to involve a lot of struggles, mostly with employment and environment. They better get used to making picket signs and learning how to protest.
And learn what a ballot box and a union are.
I do not for one second feel badly for the young of the UK with the Brexit.
They were all much too busy hanging out on the continent or where ever to vote apparently. You never do miss your rights (and other things) until they're gone.
They don't have to get drafted into the wars. Fight for abortion rights. Or struggle with a number of issues already sorted out for them before they were born, mostly by their grandparent's generation. They are in short, entitled. Never having to fight for the rights they assume will always be there, they are shocked when something does not go their way. Do not they realize they must pick up the torch for the ongoing rights of all? Their futures are going to involve a lot of struggles, mostly with employment and environment. They better get used to making picket signs and learning how to protest.
And learn what a ballot box and a union are.
I do not for one second feel badly for the young of the UK with the Brexit.
They were all much too busy hanging out on the continent or where ever to vote apparently. You never do miss your rights (and other things) until they're gone.
20
Each generation solves problems in the hope of making the world better for the next generation. And each generation has its own problems to address. Without the distractions of the concerns you mentioned, current and future generations can put their energies toward medicine, science, etc. Instead of resenting what younger generations now have, why not rejoice for them, and be pleased for ourselves that we were able to help make this so.
2
Who's fighting your war in Iraq for you?
I am fearful that we have entered a new age of un-enlightenment.
We seem to have allowed anxiety-mongering politicos, ill-willed wealth-mongers, classically-limited religious zealots, and practitioners of scientific skepticism to snatch our liberal and humanistic world from beneath us.
These usurpers now want to block all paths toward peace and justice and care for and friendship with our fellow world citizens.
They wish to have all of us venture with them into another direction: a direction that favors global domination by the few and diminished cooperation amongst nations. They wish to succeed by promoting civil unrest, community conflict, national upheaval, and international wars that spread destructive tensions upon societies, economies, and cultures.
Let's support enlightened leaders and institutions over these hater politicians and groups with their evil ways and foolish diatribes!
Let's choose peace and love over small-mindedness and fear!
We seem to have allowed anxiety-mongering politicos, ill-willed wealth-mongers, classically-limited religious zealots, and practitioners of scientific skepticism to snatch our liberal and humanistic world from beneath us.
These usurpers now want to block all paths toward peace and justice and care for and friendship with our fellow world citizens.
They wish to have all of us venture with them into another direction: a direction that favors global domination by the few and diminished cooperation amongst nations. They wish to succeed by promoting civil unrest, community conflict, national upheaval, and international wars that spread destructive tensions upon societies, economies, and cultures.
Let's support enlightened leaders and institutions over these hater politicians and groups with their evil ways and foolish diatribes!
Let's choose peace and love over small-mindedness and fear!
10
I agree that, "We seem to have allowed anxiety-mongering politicos, ill-willed wealth-mongers, classically-limited religious zealots, and practitioners of scientific skepticism to snatch our liberal and humanistic world from beneath us."
However, I think those selfish few were using the processes of globalization and ever greater union in ways to ignore problems of the rest of us and advantage themselves alone.
Globalization and greater union are inevitable, but the hijacking of it, the abuse of it, is not inevitable.
I see the civil unrest, community conflict, national upheaval and international conflicts as symptoms of rebellion against the hijacking and abuse.
It may be a blind lashing out, but it is lashing out for very good reasons.
There are many objections, and many very good reasons to object. Sure, it does harm. So do the abuses and hijacking of trends to the future.
If leaders won't see the problem, if they resolutely refuse to do anything about it, if they only help those who abuse us and hijack our future, well then well get this sort of rebellion.
However, I think those selfish few were using the processes of globalization and ever greater union in ways to ignore problems of the rest of us and advantage themselves alone.
Globalization and greater union are inevitable, but the hijacking of it, the abuse of it, is not inevitable.
I see the civil unrest, community conflict, national upheaval and international conflicts as symptoms of rebellion against the hijacking and abuse.
It may be a blind lashing out, but it is lashing out for very good reasons.
There are many objections, and many very good reasons to object. Sure, it does harm. So do the abuses and hijacking of trends to the future.
If leaders won't see the problem, if they resolutely refuse to do anything about it, if they only help those who abuse us and hijack our future, well then well get this sort of rebellion.
5
I've lived in Norway a lot of years and have never once met a Norwegian or other Scandinavian of any continental European here who refers to themselves as "European." Nobody speaks Esperanto to each other - mother tongues still prevail. Young people with means travel a lot and find interesting work opportunities abroad. Isn't that a universal and timeless truth?
22
The Brexit vote was always about fear of change. The rural and older people in the UK (especially England that still has allusions of empire) either did not take advantage of the free flow of people/information or they did not consider the implications. With all its troubles, the next generation of those who remain in the EU will realize the benefits of an integrated Europe as the young already do, which will become even clearer as more grow up in it, while Britain will seem like that stodgy old grandparent who is totally out of touch.
Not to put too fine of a point on it, but who would you rather be with? I suspect the result will be a bleeding of young, talented people from the UK (if that institution even survives) to the Continent & the US. The long-term implication will become apparent in a generation when it is too late to do anything about it. Perhaps it will be the final postscript in the decline and fall of the British Empire. So much for older and wiser - perhaps it should be older and intransigent?
Not to put too fine of a point on it, but who would you rather be with? I suspect the result will be a bleeding of young, talented people from the UK (if that institution even survives) to the Continent & the US. The long-term implication will become apparent in a generation when it is too late to do anything about it. Perhaps it will be the final postscript in the decline and fall of the British Empire. So much for older and wiser - perhaps it should be older and intransigent?
10
Pragmatist.
I see that you belong to the camp which likes to blame the victims of the uncontrolled globalization experiment.My father fought in the resistance against the Germans in WW 2 and he had a saying.A full stomach never revolts.
Perhaps if the powers that be had done something to help alleviate the extreme uncertainty and dislocations that this experiment caused to their lives then Brexit would not have happened.You say they did not take advantage of the new reality of free flow of people and information.Very few people are so prescient and they usually have extremely high IQs.
For some reason I do not think that an industrial worker who was laid off in his 50s can be retrained to become an IT professional or web designer.
It is just a thought and I am not against progress or a more humane and just version of globalization.
I see that you belong to the camp which likes to blame the victims of the uncontrolled globalization experiment.My father fought in the resistance against the Germans in WW 2 and he had a saying.A full stomach never revolts.
Perhaps if the powers that be had done something to help alleviate the extreme uncertainty and dislocations that this experiment caused to their lives then Brexit would not have happened.You say they did not take advantage of the new reality of free flow of people and information.Very few people are so prescient and they usually have extremely high IQs.
For some reason I do not think that an industrial worker who was laid off in his 50s can be retrained to become an IT professional or web designer.
It is just a thought and I am not against progress or a more humane and just version of globalization.
23
"The Brexit vote was always about fear of change."
It was rather objections to the way that change was being managed. It is a rebellion against neglect and abuse.
Change is inevitable. The way things are being changed in favor of an abusive few is not inevitable.
It was rather objections to the way that change was being managed. It is a rebellion against neglect and abuse.
Change is inevitable. The way things are being changed in favor of an abusive few is not inevitable.
14
I think that youth today....should serve their native country in public service...
and in that capacity learn to respect why those that also served before them
are looked up to as leaders.
Also, youth today are addicted to Facebook; cell phones and are hampered by
this addiction.....resulting in ability to think ...and reason.
and in that capacity learn to respect why those that also served before them
are looked up to as leaders.
Also, youth today are addicted to Facebook; cell phones and are hampered by
this addiction.....resulting in ability to think ...and reason.
12
Unbelievable some of the comments here about young people in Europe. The young women shown here in the photograph are in Berlin, one of the cheapest, easiest to live in European cities. Their rents are not like those in New York, or London, or Paris. They are simply out on on a balcony, like so many other Berliners. I don't know anything about their fancy titles or jobs, most Europeans do not have fancy titles George from New Jersey or high salaries, most are part of the 99%. They live the way most american young people do.
27
The issue with European Teenagers / University Students / College Students is they come in to the UK claim a student loan finish their education then out of the UK and fail to pay back their Student Loan!!! Can not be traced and if found the UK courts have no authority to reclaim the money owed.
They also take up place in College / Universities that could be taken by indigenous students.
If they find work experience in the UK again they only have to payback their loan when their earnings exceed £20K they take the work experience and depart before their salary exceeds £20K again disappear outside of the UK.
Depriving indigenous students of work experience.
No wonder they are upset with the UK exiting Europe their free education ticket has just been with drawn
They also take up place in College / Universities that could be taken by indigenous students.
If they find work experience in the UK again they only have to payback their loan when their earnings exceed £20K they take the work experience and depart before their salary exceeds £20K again disappear outside of the UK.
Depriving indigenous students of work experience.
No wonder they are upset with the UK exiting Europe their free education ticket has just been with drawn
11
You seem to forget that education is free in most other (European) countries as well. I'd say if people look for top graduate education that is not free they probably go to the US.
5
I thought that college was 100% FREE in every part of Europe.
So how could they owe any money at all?
So how could they owe any money at all?
The UK has it's own rules as to how Further education is funded nothing to do with France.
Unless the EU itself wish to pay for all student education individual sovereign states have their own rules.
Scotland has free education for it's own nationals and EU countries (Forced on Scotland by EU Law). But it is allowed to charge English Students for their education in Scotland. As Scotland is a province of the UK as is England.
Unless the EU itself wish to pay for all student education individual sovereign states have their own rules.
Scotland has free education for it's own nationals and EU countries (Forced on Scotland by EU Law). But it is allowed to charge English Students for their education in Scotland. As Scotland is a province of the UK as is England.
It's important to separate out generational views from life cycle views. It is possible at a certain point in one's life as one builds a life and legacy, there is a growing resentment over government control and interference with that accomplishment. Life experience translates into a greater appreciation of the cost of governance.
5
"Life experience translates into a greater appreciation of the cost of governance."
Life experience also translates into a greater appreciation of the cost of bad government and failure of good governance. Life experience allows us to see things falling apart around us. We know the roads were not always like that, the bridges did not fall down, the water was not poisoned, the electricity stayed on and at a reasonable price.
We know people had good jobs, that one spouse could support the lifestyle of both and their family. We know everybody could vacation and retire.
We know the cost of bad government.
Life experience also translates into a greater appreciation of the cost of bad government and failure of good governance. Life experience allows us to see things falling apart around us. We know the roads were not always like that, the bridges did not fall down, the water was not poisoned, the electricity stayed on and at a reasonable price.
We know people had good jobs, that one spouse could support the lifestyle of both and their family. We know everybody could vacation and retire.
We know the cost of bad government.
5
Cosmopolitan European youth, in their shocked ignorance, appear to be victims of generational self-delusion.
For 70 years Europe has been building exemplary national social structures and increasingly complex political structures courtesy of America's military umbrella. That has had the effect of allowing Europe to live in a bit of a fool's paradise, largely ignoring what was happening in much of the rest of the world, including in its own hinterlands, especially things which would soon dramatically affect Europe itself.
The Balkan wars should have woken Europe up to its inability to collectively cope with serious issues. Unfortunately, the opportunity was wasted.
Europe became focused through Brussels more on what ought to be than what is. Though people live in the "is", Brussels remained in the "ought", as mass migration, Russian adventurism, a disconnect between fiscal and monetary policy, and terrorism have all fairly quickly become impossible to ignore. As a result, the most worthy, noble, and important "European project" is seeing centrifugal forces rip it apart, as Europeans and their leaders forget why, after World War II, they began creating international structures in the first place.
The world needs a Europe with liberal, humanistic values to serve as a counter-balance to an America with similar values. Unfortunately, the odds of that continuing are diminishing quickly. Such values are not common in the world and presently not in the ascendancy.
For 70 years Europe has been building exemplary national social structures and increasingly complex political structures courtesy of America's military umbrella. That has had the effect of allowing Europe to live in a bit of a fool's paradise, largely ignoring what was happening in much of the rest of the world, including in its own hinterlands, especially things which would soon dramatically affect Europe itself.
The Balkan wars should have woken Europe up to its inability to collectively cope with serious issues. Unfortunately, the opportunity was wasted.
Europe became focused through Brussels more on what ought to be than what is. Though people live in the "is", Brussels remained in the "ought", as mass migration, Russian adventurism, a disconnect between fiscal and monetary policy, and terrorism have all fairly quickly become impossible to ignore. As a result, the most worthy, noble, and important "European project" is seeing centrifugal forces rip it apart, as Europeans and their leaders forget why, after World War II, they began creating international structures in the first place.
The world needs a Europe with liberal, humanistic values to serve as a counter-balance to an America with similar values. Unfortunately, the odds of that continuing are diminishing quickly. Such values are not common in the world and presently not in the ascendancy.
8
"courtesy of America's military umbrella"
That has not been true for twenty years. Bush I pulled the American troops out of Europe to send them to fight the Persian Gulf War, and they never went back. They were demobilized instead, and our Army shrank by near half.
Before that, the Europeans did maintain much larger forces. The German Army was six times the size of the American Army in Europe. The German Army did not become so small until the American Army left.
For most of the last twenty years, they saw no threat. Russia was in chaos and its old power bloc had joined the West.
Now as Putin becomes a threat again, they see the US as creating that as much as or more than Putin, in a deliberate effort to stir confrontation in order to make itself "indispensable."
The idea that they have it great from a free ride is evidence-free fantasy.
That has not been true for twenty years. Bush I pulled the American troops out of Europe to send them to fight the Persian Gulf War, and they never went back. They were demobilized instead, and our Army shrank by near half.
Before that, the Europeans did maintain much larger forces. The German Army was six times the size of the American Army in Europe. The German Army did not become so small until the American Army left.
For most of the last twenty years, they saw no threat. Russia was in chaos and its old power bloc had joined the West.
Now as Putin becomes a threat again, they see the US as creating that as much as or more than Putin, in a deliberate effort to stir confrontation in order to make itself "indispensable."
The idea that they have it great from a free ride is evidence-free fantasy.
2
Although not acknowledged, this demographic's allegiance is really to the global corporate structure that makes the fluidity possible - that is, instead of national identity or loyalty to a neighborhood or traditional national institutions or civic interest, the "youth demographic" is essentially loyal to the products of global capitalists and global tech that enable their way of life.
In essence, their loyalty is to tech such as Apple, Uber, Airbnb, Instagram, Facebook and ubiquitous international chains such as H&M, Sephora, etc.
Do we think it is better for citizens to be loyal to the powers of global capitalism and consumerism, instead of national institutions?
Be careful what you wish for.
In essence, their loyalty is to tech such as Apple, Uber, Airbnb, Instagram, Facebook and ubiquitous international chains such as H&M, Sephora, etc.
Do we think it is better for citizens to be loyal to the powers of global capitalism and consumerism, instead of national institutions?
Be careful what you wish for.
28
very well said
1
Excellent points, KL. Thank you.
1
Brexit is short term pain and hopefully took place soon enough! It serves as a bulwark against the wholesale islamification of Europe. We have approaching Austrian elections and more brexiteers in the qeue. Talk of invoking article 50 and Scotland joining the European will be rendered moot as more nations exit the Eu. A new order shall emerge. Hopefully Europe will right itself before its to late. The kids will thank their elders!
10
"against the wholesale islamification of Europe"
That is a silly fantasy.
The migrants now subject of concern amount to about half a percent of Europe.
There are more Muslims, and they've been there for decades.
The EU took in some Muslim countries in the Balkans. Germany deliberately imported Turkish labor for many years. Britain brought in its Muslim colonials from India and Pakistan. France brought in Muslim colonials, from Algeria first, and later form others.
The Muslim localities of Germany, Britain, and France are NOT made up of these recent migrants. They've been there for decades.
All of them together, the whole long term accumulation of Muslims in the EU including Muslims nations brought in, amounts to perhaps 4% of the EU population. That is not "wholesale islamification."
Those claims come from a small community of haters, with their own agenda. It just isn't true.
That is a silly fantasy.
The migrants now subject of concern amount to about half a percent of Europe.
There are more Muslims, and they've been there for decades.
The EU took in some Muslim countries in the Balkans. Germany deliberately imported Turkish labor for many years. Britain brought in its Muslim colonials from India and Pakistan. France brought in Muslim colonials, from Algeria first, and later form others.
The Muslim localities of Germany, Britain, and France are NOT made up of these recent migrants. They've been there for decades.
All of them together, the whole long term accumulation of Muslims in the EU including Muslims nations brought in, amounts to perhaps 4% of the EU population. That is not "wholesale islamification."
Those claims come from a small community of haters, with their own agenda. It just isn't true.
3
As always, the US press see what it wants to see in the EU dream. The sad truth is that the EU is plagued by a LACK of youth geographic mobility, not an excess of it. In truth, transnational mobility will not be destroyed by Brexit because it doesn't really exist in the first place. Job mobility in the EU is less than a third of what it is in the US and, pathetically, 48% of the EU's 18-29-year-olds still live with their parents.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/mar/24/young-adults-still...
The idea of legions of European youth roaming a post-national Europe in search of their European identity is simply a myth. One of the major problems of the EU is that nationalist social cohesion has obstructed mobility. The relatively few who actually do decide to leave their family homes in their hometowns are the children of the elites. The rest of them are far more comfortable at home, and resent the unwanted intrusion of foreigners they see as taking their jobs. Which is why they don't like the EU in the first place, and what produced the Brexit vote.
Again, not a story the press wants to tell because it does not fit.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/mar/24/young-adults-still...
The idea of legions of European youth roaming a post-national Europe in search of their European identity is simply a myth. One of the major problems of the EU is that nationalist social cohesion has obstructed mobility. The relatively few who actually do decide to leave their family homes in their hometowns are the children of the elites. The rest of them are far more comfortable at home, and resent the unwanted intrusion of foreigners they see as taking their jobs. Which is why they don't like the EU in the first place, and what produced the Brexit vote.
Again, not a story the press wants to tell because it does not fit.
42
The percentage of youth living at home in Britain (48%) according to the latest statistics is pretty much in line with the numbers in the U.S. No surprise here.
5
Wrong. There percentage of European youth living with parents is at least 50% higher in the EU than in the US. In some European countries, it is twice as much.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/ali-meyer/census-bureau-303-millenni...
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/ali-meyer/census-bureau-303-millenni...
1
CNSnews - Looks like an independent research organization to be sure. If you do not live in Europe please be balanced with your comments.
You might've mentioned that only about a third of young Brits who were registered to vote actually did so. Although this group was overwhelmingly in favour of remaining in the EU, they couldn't have been bothered to stroll down to their local polling station to register their preference. Pathetic, really.
44
They must not have felt that "preference" very deeply. Enthusiasm matters too, degree of commitment, not just a slight preference of someone who can't be bothered, to whom it does not much matter.
3
I think the NYT needs to be a little deeper about how people feel regarding their nationality and ethnic and cultural root as they move about in the world. Although it is true that many young people are more adventurous regarding relocating for work or life experiences, the person's national identity and pride remains very strong with most everyone. As an immigrant myself, I find that the putting together in one's mind of our original culture and socio-economic place in our country of origin, and the American culture and society is an ever evolving process that never ends.
9
The title of the article implies that it is representative of the "younger generation" of Europe, which has an extremely important story that needs to be told with respect to the future of the EU, but it turns out to be about "a subset within a subset".
And it appears that the children of the elite aren't happy that the masses of Europe are rising up against the elite, as far as I can tell.
It seems like one of the main takeaways of the Brexit vote is that more attention needs to be paid to the masses, and less to the elites, or their children.
It would be interesting to do a follow-up story about the perspective of the young people suffering from the 49% youth unemployment rate in Greece. Or 45% youth unemployment in Spain. Or the 40% youth unemployment in Italy. Or maybe the 25% youth unemployment in France. They might have a somewhat different perspective on the "profoundly European way of life" that would provide more insight into the state of the Europe's younger generation.
And if they don't, as the link to the Eurobarometer survey seems to imply, that would be an even more interesting story to pursue by talking to real people.
And it appears that the children of the elite aren't happy that the masses of Europe are rising up against the elite, as far as I can tell.
It seems like one of the main takeaways of the Brexit vote is that more attention needs to be paid to the masses, and less to the elites, or their children.
It would be interesting to do a follow-up story about the perspective of the young people suffering from the 49% youth unemployment rate in Greece. Or 45% youth unemployment in Spain. Or the 40% youth unemployment in Italy. Or maybe the 25% youth unemployment in France. They might have a somewhat different perspective on the "profoundly European way of life" that would provide more insight into the state of the Europe's younger generation.
And if they don't, as the link to the Eurobarometer survey seems to imply, that would be an even more interesting story to pursue by talking to real people.
18
I have come to the conclusion that the news media no longer is concerned with serious reporting. If Watergate were to happen today the public would be lucky to learn it occurred. Mostly when you read the NYT these days there is always a correction at the end of the article as it would seem no one has the knowledge to write without error.
7
The world of European youths described in this article - with freedom to travel, study, and live in any number of different countries - sounds no different from the world that I grew up in... long before the modern EU was formed.
Once the dust settles, Brexit will likely not meaningfully limit that kind of freedom of movement.
Once the dust settles, Brexit will likely not meaningfully limit that kind of freedom of movement.
8
Where were you? In the US or Europe? The much bigger discussion point is freedom to move and to work where ever ones wants. Without that the UK will not have free access to the EU market. They were sold a pipe dream. All the benefits without the responsibilities. If they get the same deal as Norway they will probable pay more (no rebate), have exactly the same responsibilities but are not part of the decision process. That does not sound like a smart deal to me...
3
Brexit, no matter the positives (independence? From Europe?), has opened the door to a new and sober reality, the escape from interdependence guaranteeing peace and prosperity and stability...and the urgent need to share the common purpose to improve security. Germany, though breaking at the seams, by admitting about one million refugees/immigrants recently, mostly young, has seen the future: once assimilated, these folks will infuse the country with new blood, eager to learn and contribute to the well-being of an aging native population. Great Britain, unless it invokes article 59, may yet repent its nativist, nationalistic, populism drive, isolating it from the world and a huge market next door. What were they thinking? Get the 'goodies' without paying for them? Demagoguery at its finest, throwing stones and then hiding the hand. Provincial thinking at best. Still, a wake-up call for the elite's establishment, time to share the pie...or else.
3
The EU's failed and delusional neoliberal economic models and "austerity" programs bankrupts itself again and again and again and this is the problem. The EU has been failing and collapsing incrementally over decades - accelerated collapse over past 2 years, well before any Brexit vote. This article is not very informative and anyone can get cheap flights in and out of European Union Countries and North Africa and the Middle East no problem and the same deals are available in Asia and Pacific Rim and in America and South America - local flying is very cheap and has nothing to do with the EU. Exchange programs for university students are similar in America and in the Pacific Rim and allow for easy study abroad all over the world - again nothing to do with the EU. Looking forward to when the UK formally exits the EU and I am relieved the UK showed the world democracy is alive and well and bourgeois cultural hegemony could not trick the masses into surrendering their democratic rights and delating them to a smug cadre of unelected bankers in Brussels who find democracy totally irrelevant and inconvenient to their creation of their bogus EU Superstate "uber allies"- Post Brexit: the markets have recovered, w/slight devaluation of the Pound and Euro which is actually very positive and helping both economies to stimulate domestic and foreign demand. The establishment tried to use scare tactics and fear mongering to crush democracy and that emperor has no clothes.
10
Yous answer is irrelevant - this is not a comparison of the EU with other areas but rather with the status that it was before - i.e. cheaper to fly now versus before etc...
As a language teacher at a leading French engineering school, I can confirm that, on the contrary, thousands of students benefit from exchanges of many types between European countries. Erasmus represents only a small part of all opportunities afforded by common European membership - and, far from being elitist, allows many students of modest means to access academic and professional resources which would otherwise be beyond their reach.
9
A lack of leadership caused Brexit. Same problem in the United States with the tea party and corporations. No one wants to stand up to the mega wealthy financial elites and tell them that they must pay their fair share. Instead the financial elites float their money all over the globe looking for the highest return for the lowest investment (they don't want to pay for infrastructure or any other social expense).
21
Such stupidity is hard to take. All the banks, corporations and rich people were against brexit.
3
The poor people were for leave because they are the have-nots. The mega wealthy need to share more of their wealth otherwise somebody's going to eat cake.
4
I think that post was saying that the reason the people voted for Brexit was because they did not feel protected against big moneyed organisations -- not that big moneyed organisations voted for Brexit.
And this is not to say that Brexit will provide any protection, but that for some reason, anxious people thought that it might.
And this is not to say that Brexit will provide any protection, but that for some reason, anxious people thought that it might.
3
If the British youngsters wanted to stay in the EU, they should have voted to do so. I read somewhere a lot of them never voted.
9
No matter the vote, before you criticize, look in the mirror. In the last congressional election, the voter turnout in the U.S. was less than 30%. Federal election voter turnout in America is almost consistently the lowest of any of the western industrialized democracies.
3
Well, getting young people to vote in the morning is a lot different than getting to show up for a fun "happening" political festival on the weekend.
5
UK parliament has sovereign authority and can ignore the referendum. Unfortunately, the UK political class is without effective leadership.
5
"can ignore the referendum. Unfortunately, the UK political class is without effective leadership"
They don't ignore a major vote. Ignoring the voters is not what effective leadership means in a democracy.
They don't ignore a major vote. Ignoring the voters is not what effective leadership means in a democracy.
1
The article posits that Brexit will profoundly affect student exchanges, then mentions that not even 5% of graduates participated in the program.
This kind of reporting unfortunately reinforces the belief that EU champions are part of the elite class.
This kind of reporting unfortunately reinforces the belief that EU champions are part of the elite class.
74
Not everyone wants to be a migrant. Some people want to keep/strengthen their roots. I live on the same property my father grew up on in the 50s and I'd hate to have to leave because I couldn't find a job here. You can have free trade or stability, not both.
10
"You can have free trade or stability, not both."
What do you mean by "stability"? How does free trade cause instability? How does "stability" inhibit free trade?
What do you mean by "stability"? How does free trade cause instability? How does "stability" inhibit free trade?
4
I don't believe the next British prime minister will initiate the Article 50 protocol to leave the EU. He or she would be a fool to do that. The Brexit vote will serve as notice to the European political class dominated by the rich that all is not well and something must be done to alleviate the fear and dislocation that many in Britain and throughout Europe have experienced. Sensible reforms, more responsiveness and greater transparency may give the EU a new life. Perhaps a re-vote is in order to settle the issue. Ultimately, I believe (and hope) that Great Britain will remain in the EU after all. From an American point of view, Western Europe is a very close cousin and our best friend and ally. We want to see a strong, stable and united Europe that can manage its own affairs.
11
So when a democratic vote is not to the pleasing of the elite, then "a re-vote is in order to settle the issue"?
Just some sort of "do over" until the 1% gets the vote they want?
Just some sort of "do over" until the 1% gets the vote they want?
29
I think the suggestion is not that the result it is "not pleasing to the elite" but that it is becoming apparent that it will not have the desired effect, even for those who voted for it.
2
I fully agree with the comment that these young people live in their own little world created by a globalized economy which rewards very fancy titled jobs which supposedly generate growth and bestows very high salaries to young people involved in them.Therefore these young people can afford to pay the very high rents that apartments command in large and fancy metropolitan areas and therefore can live the dream.However for a very large segment of the American and European population this lifestyle is an unattainable dream.They feel left out of it and therefore a huge undercurrent of resentment has been building up for years. I can feel it here where i live and even though i have been voting democratic for ever,this time i have my doubts.
128
While I understand your frustration, I don't see how voting for the Republican Party in the US would address it. Low taxes on the elites, no government regulation of corporations, and 'trickle down' economics that are a complete fallacy...how would that help? Wouldn't it further increase income inequality?
25
It does not mean that i would vote republican.In my area the ballot contains several smaller and fringe parties including a communist one.I might vote for them.
1
Actually, Breeden's the sample of young Europeans is anything but a subset of the continent's new elite. Outside the U.K. and Germany their generation suffers from unemployment of 25% and higher. Having only experienced subsidized higher education and been graded by a faculty whose political agenda has been all too obvious for a generation, they suffer from serious reality deficits. There is just no market for "entitled", brain-dead social science majors.
1
The young view the world only from their limited worldview and emotions. Wonderful as Erasmus may be, it can't be the determining factor for the fate of a nation state.
31
Interesting comment. Why not set the voting age at 55?
2
Many people, including the older generation (of which I am a member), view the world in much the same way. Many older people in the UK long for a golden past that never was. And many of them have never set foot outside their own little patch, nor made much effort to learn about the other side of the Channel.
5
So far I have seen no sacrifices, except inconveniences by the privileged youth so "let down". A British majority, many of whom have made incredible sacrifice in their lifetime, felt being British meant more than being European.
108
51.9% is a very slim majority.
2
Yes, their sacrifices were of a magnitude painful even to think about. Yes, we are forever grateful to them and in their debt. But no, our current youth are not lesser people just because they did not come of age during world wars and thus did not have the need or the opportunity for such heroism. Our forebears suffered in the hope of reducing future suffering. That is their gift to the present. Let's accept that gift -- that gift that cost them so much -- and use it to build a better world. Let's not insult them by complaining that their gift has made the recipients too happy.
4
@ Rebecca: '...Let's not insult them by complaining that their gift has made the recipients too happy...'
Not 'too happy', but too spoiled, too privileged, too oblivious to the fact that all that 'free' medical care and 'free' college has been paid for by someone else.
Not 'too happy', but too spoiled, too privileged, too oblivious to the fact that all that 'free' medical care and 'free' college has been paid for by someone else.
Europe - and English dissenters - are facing Copernican fundamental rights (and responsibilities) questions they haven't faced since the 1500s. If you want to have an EU you have to face these questions and how English law is ahead of EU law, and in conflict with EU law, on these issues.
If you look at the EU page on "Parental Responsibility" you get a glimpse of this problem. Many EU Member States, particularly those that did not participate in the Reformation or Enlightenment have "virgin birth" legal fictions they impose, i.e. they make children the responsibility only of women. Poland is a prime example, as is Greece, Ireland, Italy and many of the debtor states. English laws are better than other EU laws on this issue.
England does need to reform its own law, however, with an update to the UK parental responsibility law to give every infant the self-executing right to have his/her bio parents identified on the birth cert. The UK law is already gender-neutral and equal in baseline parental responsibility but only those fathers marred to the mother have default responsibility. Someone has to step up on behalf of the infant (which can be the mother or the father) to get the paternity correctly established.
It was, after all, the English Midlands that led the drive to discover DNA (Darwin, Fell, Crick et al) and maternity as inexpensively provable as maternity for the first time in world history, a Copernican information bomb rapidly descending on all the "Cults of ISIS."
If you look at the EU page on "Parental Responsibility" you get a glimpse of this problem. Many EU Member States, particularly those that did not participate in the Reformation or Enlightenment have "virgin birth" legal fictions they impose, i.e. they make children the responsibility only of women. Poland is a prime example, as is Greece, Ireland, Italy and many of the debtor states. English laws are better than other EU laws on this issue.
England does need to reform its own law, however, with an update to the UK parental responsibility law to give every infant the self-executing right to have his/her bio parents identified on the birth cert. The UK law is already gender-neutral and equal in baseline parental responsibility but only those fathers marred to the mother have default responsibility. Someone has to step up on behalf of the infant (which can be the mother or the father) to get the paternity correctly established.
It was, after all, the English Midlands that led the drive to discover DNA (Darwin, Fell, Crick et al) and maternity as inexpensively provable as maternity for the first time in world history, a Copernican information bomb rapidly descending on all the "Cults of ISIS."
7
What are "Copernican fundamental rights"? Assuming that's what you meant to say, please cite a source other than yourself.
3
Cambridge is nowhere near the East or West Midlands. It is in East Anglia, the ports of which connect to the Netherlands -- from which the Puritans set sail, incidentally. I've never heard of 'Copernican fundamental rights.'
1
I mentioned the EU page on "parental responsibility" in my post. This is a good place to start if you are new to the concept of fundamental rights.
The rights aren't "Copernican"; what has happened is a Copernican shift in the "right of the child" asserted by England, via its discovery of DNA, and longstanding view that the child has the right to both bio parents holding equal and baseline responsibility v. the "virgin birth" laws of the EU (where the mother is the only person responsible for the child), the Marianist gender role of the Council of Trent (which Elizabeth I defeated as Jesuits were proselytizing it and imposing it in Catholic countries), the Salic Law of the Holy Roman Empire (which required disinheritance and disenfranchisement of women and which the British, principally the English, blocked from every operating on their island).
The English Bill of Rights of 1689, probably the first human rights treaty in the world, are also a good piece of history to review.
The rights aren't "Copernican"; what has happened is a Copernican shift in the "right of the child" asserted by England, via its discovery of DNA, and longstanding view that the child has the right to both bio parents holding equal and baseline responsibility v. the "virgin birth" laws of the EU (where the mother is the only person responsible for the child), the Marianist gender role of the Council of Trent (which Elizabeth I defeated as Jesuits were proselytizing it and imposing it in Catholic countries), the Salic Law of the Holy Roman Empire (which required disinheritance and disenfranchisement of women and which the British, principally the English, blocked from every operating on their island).
The English Bill of Rights of 1689, probably the first human rights treaty in the world, are also a good piece of history to review.
2
It's ironic, and this applies to America as well, that the people that have contact with foreigners (via travel, living in metro areas, world class Universities) have no problem with immigration. It's the people in more isolated areas that oppose it.
Living in California it makes you wonder what is in Trump's head when he says "those Mexicans". A Spanish speaker in the US is just as likely to be from Central or South America as North America (Mexico is N.A., Donald...).
Stereotypes break down when you actually live and work with foreigners. At the heart of resurgent Nationalism is the ignored economic fate of Americans in "flyover country".
There is language in the NAFTA treaty that acknowledges that some would need help (economic aid, retraining), but somehow it fell to governments to provide it. Business would reap the benefits, but shed all responsibility for it's social costs.
More of the anger needs to be aimed at the real cause of misery, a now global socioeconomic system that works only to the benefit of the few.
Living in California it makes you wonder what is in Trump's head when he says "those Mexicans". A Spanish speaker in the US is just as likely to be from Central or South America as North America (Mexico is N.A., Donald...).
Stereotypes break down when you actually live and work with foreigners. At the heart of resurgent Nationalism is the ignored economic fate of Americans in "flyover country".
There is language in the NAFTA treaty that acknowledges that some would need help (economic aid, retraining), but somehow it fell to governments to provide it. Business would reap the benefits, but shed all responsibility for it's social costs.
More of the anger needs to be aimed at the real cause of misery, a now global socioeconomic system that works only to the benefit of the few.
166
I live in a neighborhood with a lot of Arabs, who are very nice people, so I'm always surprised at the assumptions by those not so exposed.
6
So the problem is the "global socioeconomic system"? How do you change/reform it? Who created it? Who protects it? Government, that's who. To change/reform this "global socioeconomic system" you change the people in government. That's what Sanders and maybe Trump would do. Clinton -- no way.
5
Bates- the problem is WE THE PEOPLE are supposed to vote to replace the deeply broken congress, but we keep re-electing incumbents for some reason. It's not up to the president, it's up to us!
4
This was exactly the point of the European Union, and it's no accident that the young and the brave are most at home in a place dominated by free trade, open borders, a single currency, and the economic policies that foster them, while diminishing the old nationalisms of the past. In Britain, the young voted overwhelmingly to remain; the old and the scared - just the reverse, trying to hold onto illusions that no longer exist.
Ironically, it's the young who are best placed to craft better continent-wide policies on security and immigration, passing up olive oil labeling distractions. But with Britain out and others perhaps to follow, young people will get fewer, not more opportunities to make real reform possible for the future.
Ironically, it's the young who are best placed to craft better continent-wide policies on security and immigration, passing up olive oil labeling distractions. But with Britain out and others perhaps to follow, young people will get fewer, not more opportunities to make real reform possible for the future.
94
If they want influence on policy, they should learn to vote. Turnout of people age 18-25 in this referendum was something like 34%, compared to an overall turnout of 72%. A bit rich for them to be complaining that they didn't get their way.
9
Touche - lots of dumb all around it would seem.
2
If we want to encourage youth participation,we must make it easier for them or vote.i.e introduce online voting. This ridiculous referendum would never have gotten 10% approval. Unlike your generation, today's youth don't have it good with rising housing cost; massive student debt; and dilapidated transportation, unlike your generation whose fortune was heavily public financed.
Remember, they will be the ones who will be changing your diapers in the not so distant future. Karma will get you.
Remember, they will be the ones who will be changing your diapers in the not so distant future. Karma will get you.
1
You see these young Europeans all over NYC now. For them, our city is just another stop on their world tour of cities to stick on their resume. They talk about community, but their community is all online and amongst people of a certain social class. They have no commitment to any actual places. They live off of their parents' money, so they can go where they want without thinking about the consequences on the residents of the cities they "vacation" in on their way to their jobs in finance, marketing, and social media. Once their parents stop paying their way, the companies they work for take over. These kids have no idea about how the majority of the people in the cities where they live are struggling.
Nearly every week, I met another European who has been relocated here by their company (or their husband's company). The companies pay for the ridiculously high rents, thus shielding these already privileged people from the crippling NY housing market. Of course, the fact that the companies pay the ridiculously high rents is also a major contributor to why no NYer can afford to live in NY anymore. Not surprisingly, all of the Europeans I meet simply love NY. Of course, they do find the homeless in the streets tiresome.
Nearly every week, I met another European who has been relocated here by their company (or their husband's company). The companies pay for the ridiculously high rents, thus shielding these already privileged people from the crippling NY housing market. Of course, the fact that the companies pay the ridiculously high rents is also a major contributor to why no NYer can afford to live in NY anymore. Not surprisingly, all of the Europeans I meet simply love NY. Of course, they do find the homeless in the streets tiresome.
237
The affluent have always had advantages that shield them from many hardships. That hasn't changed as a result of the Brexit vote. If anything, the people of Great Britain may have fewer opportunities to join the ranks of the affluent.
8
The same could be said of affluent young Americans abroad.
7
Not to mention they illegally climb our bridges to hang 'art flags' and put 'love locks' on the railings, endangering and destroying our city while they take their endless selfies.
New Yorkers despise all tourists, but clueless entitled ones like this are the worst of all.
New Yorkers despise all tourists, but clueless entitled ones like this are the worst of all.
11
Things could be different if the youngsters had voted. Facebook likes are not votes. Using FB, Twitter and Skype to organize various groups means nothing if they don’t bother to walk to the voting booth.
I hope this is a wake-up call for them.
I hope this is a wake-up call for them.
71
"Things could be different if the youngsters had voted. Facebook likes are not votes. Using FB, Twitter and Skype to organize various groups means nothing if they don’t bother to walk to the voting booth."
This is a good lesson for Bernie Sanders' supporters, also. Posting on social media and attending rallies is not the same as voting.
This is a good lesson for Bernie Sanders' supporters, also. Posting on social media and attending rallies is not the same as voting.
3
In 1806/7, after subduing most of Europe including militaristic Prussia and mighty Russia, Napoleon demanded that all Europe must exclude Great Britain from trade with the continent. He failed dismally to subdue our nation and in the end our world view prevailed not his.
Some EU members are presenting a very petulant and childish stance in wanting to "punish" Britain for Brexit. They will not succeed. The USA will not push its only reliable and powerful ally to the end of the queue as expressed by the lame duck President Obama. Our kith and kin across the planet will still trade with us. Germans are a pragmatic race just like their Anglo Saxon cousins. Will you really wreck your car industry for a spurious idea of a United States of Europe?
Please do not take the whining of certain Remainers in the GB and their anti-democratic marches in London as a sign that we do not really want out of the EU. They represent multicultural London and perhaps a few contrary Scots. I can tell you from here in middle England that we wanted out, will accept nothing but out and if Europe wants to turn its back on the fifth most powerful economic and military nation in the world with a global reach and a king pin in Europe's defence then go ahead.
We never accept threats, we are slow to react but we hold a grudge for a long time. Try to damage us and it will not be forgotten.
Some EU members are presenting a very petulant and childish stance in wanting to "punish" Britain for Brexit. They will not succeed. The USA will not push its only reliable and powerful ally to the end of the queue as expressed by the lame duck President Obama. Our kith and kin across the planet will still trade with us. Germans are a pragmatic race just like their Anglo Saxon cousins. Will you really wreck your car industry for a spurious idea of a United States of Europe?
Please do not take the whining of certain Remainers in the GB and their anti-democratic marches in London as a sign that we do not really want out of the EU. They represent multicultural London and perhaps a few contrary Scots. I can tell you from here in middle England that we wanted out, will accept nothing but out and if Europe wants to turn its back on the fifth most powerful economic and military nation in the world with a global reach and a king pin in Europe's defence then go ahead.
We never accept threats, we are slow to react but we hold a grudge for a long time. Try to damage us and it will not be forgotten.
15
Nobody wants to *damage* you, but if you want club priviliges, you have to be a member of the club and pay your dues. You really sound like you think the UK deserves all the benefits of the single market with none of the responsibilities. That is not possible.
19
That's silly. Europe has changed a lot in two hundred years. If European history proves anything, it is that blind nationalism leads to disaster. The future is European unification, including England. It's just a question of when.
7
"The USA will not push its only reliable and powerful ally to the end of the queue as expressed by the lame duck President Obama."
Obama was more balanced after the Brexit vote results were in:
'“One thing that will not change is the special relationship that exists between our two nations,” he said. “That will endure.” And, he added, “The E.U. will remain one of our Indispensable partners.”'
Obama Says ‘Special Relationship’ With Britain Will Endure
By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS and MARK LANDLER
The New York Times
JUNE 24, 2016
Obama was more balanced after the Brexit vote results were in:
'“One thing that will not change is the special relationship that exists between our two nations,” he said. “That will endure.” And, he added, “The E.U. will remain one of our Indispensable partners.”'
Obama Says ‘Special Relationship’ With Britain Will Endure
By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS and MARK LANDLER
The New York Times
JUNE 24, 2016
One silver lining from this whole debacle is that even if Brexit proceeds unabated, free movement of people is likely to continue after the UK leaves the EU. Access to the European Market is too important for the British government, and so they will likely concede this point during negotiations in order not to compromise their financial interests.
2
And access to Britain is too important for the European Market, so mutual need may well balance out said concessions.
3
Michael, I hope you are right but I strongly suspect that you are overly optimistic. The anti-refugee crowd is noisy and gets a lot of attention, but it seems that what people deeply care about in "middle England" is competition for jobs by "immigrants" from other EU countries. Two years after Article 50 is invoked, movement by workers between the EU and Great Britain will be through visas. If Britain imposes any of the restrictions that the English people demand, the EU will almost certainly respond tit for tat.
Unfortunately, I think that England is playing high stakes poker with a much weaker hand than it thinks it has.
Unfortunately, I think that England is playing high stakes poker with a much weaker hand than it thinks it has.
3
"Unfortunately, I think that England is playing high stakes poker with a much weaker hand than it thinks it has."
The UK has a great deal of soft power. The EU countries, especially Germany and France, are aware of that, and that's why they're playing hardball. But they could easily overplay their hand.
The UK has a great deal of soft power. The EU countries, especially Germany and France, are aware of that, and that's why they're playing hardball. But they could easily overplay their hand.
An interesting perspective on EU post Brexit.
Yet, in all reports to date regarding Brexit, what always stands out is everyone talks about benefits and money they get from EU. And these young people are no exception.
Not one of them talks about his or her obligations to making EUROPE better for others who may not be so privileged or lucky.
The young man uses the same words as those who voted Brexit that they should do something on immigration or terrorism.
In America, many young people volunteered for armed services post 9/11 to help defend America. That'said what good citizens do.
None of these young people said that in response to terrorism or crisis in EU, they are changing directions to make europe better. All they talk about is meeting more friends in more bars in more places that are not their home. I wish the reporter had asked if they had ever voted in their own countries. And my guess is none had ever bothered before
I wish these young people showed something that would make them role models for other younger Europeans.
And as an American in Europe, I find this is the main problem of EU. They are building a society of folks looking for benefits but no responsibilities that go with these benefits.
They need to learn to be "citizens" and not party goers. To wit Mr. Benjamin Franklin, " we have given you a EUROPE, if you can keep it."
They need to learn to be better citizens and not just wanderers who go from one party place to another.
Yet, in all reports to date regarding Brexit, what always stands out is everyone talks about benefits and money they get from EU. And these young people are no exception.
Not one of them talks about his or her obligations to making EUROPE better for others who may not be so privileged or lucky.
The young man uses the same words as those who voted Brexit that they should do something on immigration or terrorism.
In America, many young people volunteered for armed services post 9/11 to help defend America. That'said what good citizens do.
None of these young people said that in response to terrorism or crisis in EU, they are changing directions to make europe better. All they talk about is meeting more friends in more bars in more places that are not their home. I wish the reporter had asked if they had ever voted in their own countries. And my guess is none had ever bothered before
I wish these young people showed something that would make them role models for other younger Europeans.
And as an American in Europe, I find this is the main problem of EU. They are building a society of folks looking for benefits but no responsibilities that go with these benefits.
They need to learn to be "citizens" and not party goers. To wit Mr. Benjamin Franklin, " we have given you a EUROPE, if you can keep it."
They need to learn to be better citizens and not just wanderers who go from one party place to another.
35
To the younger generation of Europe, make Europe what you want it to be. You have the political power and numbers to channel the continent toward unity and a higher quality of life. By all means, please continue to reject nationalism that seeds global wars, death, anti-semtism and the like. The younger generations of the USA and other nations of the world are counting on you. We are confident in your ability and tenacity to continue the efforts of a unified Europe regardless of the Brexit vote. We believe in you.
9
Sorry but until one is dead, everyone has a voice. Dividing yet again by generation, which ironically unity is the battle cry of the left, is getting very tiresome. Or are articles such as this meant to indicate that the rest of us should stay home and let the young, naive, indoctrinated youth determine what is important. They know nothing of life except the rules of the EU. They have no idea how important it is to be able to have people vote for their leaders, change them when they no longer work for the people, and can decide what laws to pass. Who even decided that the millennials were the "anointed" generation any way? What have they done to be so glorified? What no one is telling them is that life will be the same. But I guess manipulating them has been so easy, its hard to stop doing it with articles such as this. The sky is not falling in fact I think I see the dawn breaking.
131
Man I can see the sourpuss face ... Unclench already! These young people are on the right track.
13
Bumble bee, why don't you own up to your own opinions and give us your name? Who is dividing generations? Not this article. The old will not give way to the young in Brexit, and while we should respect our elders, they are often misguided, hard of hearing, closed to the world, and uncaring when it comes to the world that they wish to leave for those who follow. I think that the coming generations, who will, after all, be supporting Social Security and pension systems for the elderly, should be listened to. You see a dawn breaking? How utterly misguided.
6
There is no such thing as an objectively "right" track, and one with a respect for democracy, though perhaps not plebiscites, recognizes that the voice of the people controls on political questions.
1
These young cosmopolitans should remember they are greatly outnumbered by the unwashed masses. In a democracy, those unwashed masses get the same amount of votes as they do.
The wealthy of now should not make the same mistakes as the Romanovs of then: pay attention to the hardships of your poorer neighbors before they decide to take your things.
The wealthy of now should not make the same mistakes as the Romanovs of then: pay attention to the hardships of your poorer neighbors before they decide to take your things.
136
The United States of America could have been a failed experiment were it not for the leaders who believed that a house divided could not stand. Although Europe has never been "a house," the E.U is the first real attempt to make it so. Europe should not descend back into its sad history of war after war, killing millions and millions of people. The fact is, this world is slowly realizing that our Earth is our house, our home, and globalization is the attempt to embrace that reality. We need more compassion and less greed to make it happen.
85
Your comment highlights exactly why the EU is slowly falling apart. The US had a unique history that began as 13 highly integrated small colonies of one nation. Europe has thousands of years of history making it into very different and distinct nation states that don't want to subsume their national identity into a pan-European federal-type super-state.
7
Thank you for this post.
Not mentioned in the story is how depressingly similar all these "diverse, cosmopolitan" young people are. They increasingly look the same, talk the same, act the same, and believe the same things. News flash: When you snuff out people who don't want to join your global project, you actually snuff out the things that actually make people "diverse." In the future, when humanity has all been folded into a single glorious shining global project, when everyone is androgynous and speaks the same language and believes the same God (or no-God, as it were), when national borders and tribal identities have been erased... in short, when there's no "outside" left... that's when aliens will discover Earth and clean our clocks, because humanity will have gained breadth, but lost all of its depth.
7
England's young people, who largely supported remaining in the European Union, have been let down. They were let down by older voters, riding a nationalistic high without considering the lows they were bequeathing the next generation. They were let down by politicians like Boris Johnson and David Cameron, who, with different positions, used the Brexit vote for political grandstanding.
And it is England's young people who will pay the price for this ill-conceived vote, after the lifetimes of older voters and after the careers of Johnson and Cameron, who are already has-beens, not even two weeks after the referendum.
And it is England's young people who will pay the price for this ill-conceived vote, after the lifetimes of older voters and after the careers of Johnson and Cameron, who are already has-beens, not even two weeks after the referendum.
162
So, from a distance you have this view of what young Brits wanted. Let me tell you that all my five, twenty and thirty something year old sons voted out and so did their dozens of friends. Multicultural, socialist London no is no longer representative of Britain, especially England. Our people, of all ages know what a totalitarian state looks like and the EU is just that run by an unelected politbureau.
32
David Cameron vigorously advocated remaining in the EU, and he explicitly sought support from British students: "Mr Cameron used his visit to the Streatham campus to urge students to use their vote in June to support the EU."
Prime Minister David Cameron visits the University of Exeter
By the University of Exeter
8 April 2016
Prime Minister David Cameron visits the University of Exeter
By the University of Exeter
8 April 2016
No, the young did it to themselves. Only 38% of them went to the polls, but about 86% of old people. They should have been more active.
23
The photo perfectly captures the divide that caused Brexit. These fashionable young ladies drinking Pouilly-Fuissé on their hardwood balcony in Berlin live in another world from the single mother of three eking it out in a council estate in Birmingham.
256
To think they dont remember a time before the euro existed? I still have lira!
2
"... drinking Pouilly-Fuissé on their hardwood balcony ..."
You would have done better to critique their fashion sense, because no Pouilly-Fuissé is visible in the photo, and the balcony floor could be wood plastic composite (WPC).
You would have done better to critique their fashion sense, because no Pouilly-Fuissé is visible in the photo, and the balcony floor could be wood plastic composite (WPC).
13
Where are you sitting in San Francisco, DK? Anyway, this kind of resentment of the young with aspirations is pathetic, and the EU is not responsible for the failed policies of the Conservative party in Britain and for income inequality. Brexit was really about bare-faced xenophobia. Foreigners and "Internal others" are convenient scapegoats, we know, from the dark history of the European continent in the 20th century.
57