Why all the hate for observant Jews in these comments?
1
You nailed it plain and simple PrairieFlax. JW
2
Sabbath elevator? Don't buy anything higher than the second floor then.
10
The co-op needs to modify its rules to permit the comings and goings of a gentile or non-observant Jewish person who doesn't live there - to allay concerns about fire (stove) and other matters.
Some cities and neighborhoods have eruvs. Perhaps the co-op would be amenable to having the building declared an eruv zone, so that the observant family can operate appliances, etc. on the Sabbath.
This can't be the only Sabbath Elevator building in New York. What do others do?
Some cities and neighborhoods have eruvs. Perhaps the co-op would be amenable to having the building declared an eruv zone, so that the observant family can operate appliances, etc. on the Sabbath.
This can't be the only Sabbath Elevator building in New York. What do others do?
1
The anti-antisemitism in many of these remarks is appalling. Why are they even being published and this on the heels of the death of Elie Wiesel? Can't one disagree without disparaging religious beliefs?
9
I agree, JW. Disgusting.
2
Not anti-Semetic. Anti orthodoxy of any kind.
Many of our ancestors came here for freedom of religion meaning we can worship as we please but not that we can impose our beliefs and customs on others.
Many of our ancestors came here for freedom of religion meaning we can worship as we please but not that we can impose our beliefs and customs on others.
20
The remarks are not antisemitism they're pro LOGIC.
14
I would request the observant, religious people to take the stairs. It is not fair to have the other tenants pay for an elevator change.
24
In co-ops we all pay for something we don't use.Not everyone uses the gym or the library or the movie room or the play room or the whatever. That is the nature of cooperative living.
6
As a "shiksa"(Lutheran plains state upbringing) I am appalled by all the hateful comments toward observant Jewish people. Surely readers can expressive their disapproval of a Sabbath elevator without ad hominem attacks.
I am, however, wondering about about an eruv for the elevator - or the building in general. Would this satisfy everyone?
Eruv:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eruv
I am, however, wondering about about an eruv for the elevator - or the building in general. Would this satisfy everyone?
Eruv:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eruv
4
The anti-semetic tone of many of these comments is appalling, and I am not in favor of a Sabbath elevator. I guess Trump has more supporters than I imagined. And if by some chance this comment is printed, I expect I will be tarred and feathered.
5
If I was on a Co-op board, faced with a decision about changing the elevator to a Sabbath elevator, I would see this as just the first of many other probable accommodation requests to come down the road with these tenants. And the first is a biggie, too. Will they be able to open the front door by themselves, throw out their own trash, move their car if needed, handle medical emergencies, and who knows what other obscure rules they might find to impose on others?
39
Trash can certainly wait 24 hours. Also, I believe that in Judaism, to come to someone's medical assistance on a Holy day is considered a mitzvah. I once taught an Orthodox Jewish student with two doctor parents. Her father at one time was called upon to deliver a baby - on the Sabbath. No other doctor was available for this emergency delivery. He did so, none the worse for wear, and probably the better for it. As for the non-emergency matters you bring up these can be dealt with by the family hiring a non-observer to assit them on the Sabbath. There's a not-so-polite-term for this that even I, a "shiksa" am familiar with.
8
If I was on a co-op board (wait - I am!), I would thoughtfully consider the request of making one of the elevators in the building a Sabbath elevator as I would any other request made of the board by a tenant or prospective tenant. The board would then discuss the matter thoroughly and speak with other tenants, if necessary, about the request before making a decision. What I would NOT do is assume that just because a tenant or prospective tenant is making a request for an accommodation that somehow they are going to be "problem" tenants. These people are not "imposing" their beliefs or practices on anyone else - they are seeking an accommodation, of which I'm sure they are fully aware could be rejected by the co-op board. Our co-op board doesn't judge a prospective tenant negatively because they make a request for an accommodation and neither should any other co-op board.
11
That would be my main concern. The elevator in and of itself doesn't bother me so much - it's a minor compared with other things that will follow. If they are so devout, will they also leave the stove burners on all weekend? That's a fire safety hazard, which has claimed the lives of several. Because there is no one to turn on the gas stove, Orthodox Jews can leave the stove on all day and night, even while asleep. Remember the house fire where 5 children died.
14
Elevators that stop on every floor on Saturday? Give me a break why should I have to suffer for some superstition that others believe. What about me me?
57
Exactly, this would not even ever occur to them or any other religious nut. OF COURSE they take priority and everyone else has to put up with it.
13
I find it repulsive when someone's religion requires other people to change their ways to suit their belief system. Orthodox Jewish men have also boarded planes and then insisted that the women seated next to them should move. Really? Your religion imposes burdens on others and that is fine with you?
73
To call these people's desire to observe the Sabbath as they see fit "repulsive" is awfully extreme. You might call their wish to have the elevator reconfigured "annoying," "brazen," "inconsiderate," etc.
But the word "repulsive" should be observed for real atrocities - - how about the recent spate of terrorist bombings?
But the word "repulsive" should be observed for real atrocities - - how about the recent spate of terrorist bombings?
21
Yes, I find the idea of people imposing the burden of their religious observations on someone else repulsive--it causes "strong dislike or disgust" in me. I find terrorist bombings atrocious, inhumane and heartbreaking. Okay?
31
In this country we pay homage to religiosity, the following of the received (and perceived) word of a god. Some gods say that infidels should be killed; some that gays are sinners; some that you can ride an elevator but not press the buttons on Saturdays. One cannot argue with any of these, since they are all based on "faith" and not on reason. Religion gives a free pass to the most nonsensical, and, yes, repulsive, behaviors. One cannot say that a Shabbat goy is a reasonable solution but suicide bombings in the name of Allah are not, if you believe that both are god's directives.
Religion is the problem. Public mocking of those who condone or encourage misogyny, homophobia, and murder is the solution. I, like others, find the desire to put a burden on others in the name of nonsense to be repulsive.
Religion is the problem. Public mocking of those who condone or encourage misogyny, homophobia, and murder is the solution. I, like others, find the desire to put a burden on others in the name of nonsense to be repulsive.
10
I had a similar upper respiratory tract issue from exposure to a heavy concentration of mold spores, after staying a week in a hotel room -- on a tropical island -- that sat above over-irrigated lanscaping. There was a constant puddle underneath my room's balcony, and by the time I left I was quite ill with coughing and breathing oroblems. The symptoms persisted for about two months after my return home, then cleared. The Long Island basement reno may have stirred up and spread the spores around the house, or the inhalation if dust mentioned may have contained a massive dose of mold.
4
The rear yard deck expansion/ enclosure question has too many variables to answer in a news column
I sued my condo and won over wrongful interference with a different renovation request
and I sued the NYC Dept of Buildings, and won, over a rear yard expansion/ encroachment - that latter violated the Zoning Resolution
The nature of the enclosure would also be at issue, one of the issues raised in one of my lawsuits was 'what is a room'
There is case law on almost everything, including 'what is a room'
My case looked at rear yard structures and property lines and proximity or distance, and also the height of the new structure, and there is a golisth (big number) of cases on that, at BSA not DOB
I suspect this writer has already contacted his board and been told no
I sued my condo and won over wrongful interference with a different renovation request
and I sued the NYC Dept of Buildings, and won, over a rear yard expansion/ encroachment - that latter violated the Zoning Resolution
The nature of the enclosure would also be at issue, one of the issues raised in one of my lawsuits was 'what is a room'
There is case law on almost everything, including 'what is a room'
My case looked at rear yard structures and property lines and proximity or distance, and also the height of the new structure, and there is a golisth (big number) of cases on that, at BSA not DOB
I suspect this writer has already contacted his board and been told no
7
It sounds as though the Orthodox Jewish couple should try to buy a co-op in a building that already has a Shabbos elevator.
65
Regarding the religious request:
If the prospective buyer considers it so crucial to observe the shabbat to such an extreme extent ( I don't care if that is politically incorrect ), instead of expecting others in the building to endure such inconvenience for his benefit, I think a reasonable solution would be for him to employ a shabbat goy.
If the prospective buyer considers it so crucial to observe the shabbat to such an extreme extent ( I don't care if that is politically incorrect ), instead of expecting others in the building to endure such inconvenience for his benefit, I think a reasonable solution would be for him to employ a shabbat goy.
30
In regards to the Sabbath elevator: not mentioned is the inconvenience of stopping at every floor to other homeowners. Why does one owner have the chutzpah to impose his or her own religious restrictions on others? Especially nonsense restrictions -- one can take the elevator but not press the buttons??? Take the stairs!
77
It is pretty amazing that someone would ask if he can force the board of his building to make a change to the elevators which would inconvenience all of the other residence to help him sell his apartment.
67
"Can the board be forced to change the elevators if I sell my apartment to this couple?"
This is almost funny. In NYC, not only can the board not be forced to change the elevators, most likely they will reject the purchase if there was even an inkling that the buyers wanted to make changes to the elevators. I guess not terribly funny, but boards yield enormous power in NYC.
This is almost funny. In NYC, not only can the board not be forced to change the elevators, most likely they will reject the purchase if there was even an inkling that the buyers wanted to make changes to the elevators. I guess not terribly funny, but boards yield enormous power in NYC.
33
A Sabbath elevator has to run up and down continuously in order to open at every floor automatically. This is, of course, extra wear and tear on the elevator, uses extra electricity, and delays other residents as they wait for the car to belatedly arrive. If you search online, you will find some rabbinical opinion that opposes any use of Sabbath elevators. I am certainly not going to enter that debate.
While pressing a button or activating a photocell might be forbidden work, I wonder if merely being present by the elevator door might be acceptable. Some security cameras note the change in image and could signal the car.
While pressing a button or activating a photocell might be forbidden work, I wonder if merely being present by the elevator door might be acceptable. Some security cameras note the change in image and could signal the car.
18
But how will the elevator know where to go?
6
If it stops at every floor during the selected times, that is not going to be an issue. If there is only one elevator, that would be a real inconvenience to me if I lived anywhere above the second floor, because I do a lot to not waste energy, and this practice is extremely inefficient. I have a bad knee, and stairs are not my best friend, however, so I do take elevators, and they are not where I do my best contemplating.
Build out the deck and get a nice big tent with lots of mesh openings to use during the nice weather. You'd be surprised how roomy some of them can be, and you can just take it down whenever you want to.
15
i concur that providing a sabbath elevator is not a necessity. let them hire a "sabbath goy" instead.
26
The buyers may not be legally entitled to a Shabbos elevator, but unless it would cause significant problems within the building, I think they should be accommodated.