I agree with some aspects, but I must strongly disagree that civilians actually understand what it is like. The military is not simply like any other dangerous occupation. It is if you never deploy, never go into combat. But in combat, it is very different. In war, you end up experiencing extremes of love, hatred, boredom, excitement, terror, purpose, disillusionment, brotherhood and more. Nor are these brief experiences, but they extend constantly, through wild extremes while you are deployed. There is a reason people come back and have troubles reintegrating. Nothing like this occurs for a barista or an oil-worker. You don't have to reintegrate into a society that feels different.
Also missing is the second enduring myth in America. Mr. Scranton talks of the myth of Star Wars, but just as commonplace is the myth that comes from films like Platoon, Apocalypse Now, Full Metal Jacket, The Hurt Locker, and more. A myth of American soldiers as broken, hardened, killing machines. A myth of soldiers as both victim and monster. Veterans know that there tend to be two reactions when people learn of your service. One they thank you and treat you as a hero...an uncomfortable affair, but at least its mostly positive. The second is a combination of pity and horror. This myth is as damaging and both illustrate a real gulf, a real gap between comfortable first world citizens and the few who leave comfort behind.
Also missing is the second enduring myth in America. Mr. Scranton talks of the myth of Star Wars, but just as commonplace is the myth that comes from films like Platoon, Apocalypse Now, Full Metal Jacket, The Hurt Locker, and more. A myth of American soldiers as broken, hardened, killing machines. A myth of soldiers as both victim and monster. Veterans know that there tend to be two reactions when people learn of your service. One they thank you and treat you as a hero...an uncomfortable affair, but at least its mostly positive. The second is a combination of pity and horror. This myth is as damaging and both illustrate a real gulf, a real gap between comfortable first world citizens and the few who leave comfort behind.
27
What are the chances that this beautiful essay having any positive effect on the armchair warriors in Congress, the various neo-con holding tanks, I mean think-tanks, the State Department and more importantly a possible hawkish President?
If more former soldiers like Roy Scranton were in national political office maybe they would have a lasting impact on our foreign policy.
If more former soldiers like Roy Scranton were in national political office maybe they would have a lasting impact on our foreign policy.
70
Wasn't the Declaration written during armed rebellion?
What about every nation state, from Homer's Illiad, Rome's Romulus killing his brother Remus, to the Aztec subjugation and sacrifice of surround tribes. Every civilization is built and supported on acts of violence, no matter how noble.
Sadly civilization isn't built on singing peace songs and holding hands.
What about every nation state, from Homer's Illiad, Rome's Romulus killing his brother Remus, to the Aztec subjugation and sacrifice of surround tribes. Every civilization is built and supported on acts of violence, no matter how noble.
Sadly civilization isn't built on singing peace songs and holding hands.
19
Does this theme correlate with the individual American who wants the honor of keeping a personal gun to defend his or her family? Maybe the myth of redemptive violence plays out on many different levels. To me, it seems escaping from the power of this particular myth would be worth celebrating.
16
My America requires that soldiers refuse to kill, refuse to fight unjust wars, refuse to obey orders to kill civilians. Refuse to enlist.
28
Absolutely fabulous piece that finally sheds some often-repressed truth on war, peace, nationalism, "imagined communities" and global realities. Shame about the last sentence which talks of America as an ideal and a commitment. Suddenly it seemed that the main point of the article was lost in the delusions that glorify violence. Countries are and always will be shifting groups of people, never static, never the same. Jefferson would be horrified at modern America as Obama would be shocked at 18th C America. Countries must never been eulogized and considered something anything other than convenient forms of living in groups. Canada is hardly different from USA which is hardly different form Australia, UK etc.. We glorify violence and fake heroism because we glorify the banner we are said to fight under. Bigger picture please.
17
America's three foundation principles are bigotry, exploitation and horrific violence. Recognition of these is never included in the national dialog.
15
Who is this guy? I'll vote for him. There's more truth in this piece than in all the punditry I've read in a decade.
46
• ...Mr. Lucas’s Wagnerian space opera recast for Americans the mythic story so central to our sense of ourselves as a nation.
"God created war so that Americans would learn geography." ~ MARK TWAIN
• In this story, war is a terrible thing we do only because we have to. In this story, the violence of war has a power that unifies and enlightens. In this story, war is how we show ourselves that we’re heroes.
"Show me a hero and I'll write you a tragedy." ~ F. SCOTT FITZGERALD
• Whom we’re fighting against or why doesn’t matter as much as the violence itself...
"It does not matter whether the war is actually happening, and, since no decisive victory is possible, it does not matter whether the war is going badly. All that is needed is that a state of war should exist." ~ GEORGE ORWELL
• ...our stoic willingness to shed blood....
"There is nothing more American than brutal violence. The country was built on it, revels in it and shows every evidence of clinging to it with the crazed, destructive strength of an obsessive lover." ~ BOB HERBERT,
American journalist and columnist
• I was the faceless storm trooper, and the scrappy rebels were the Iraqis.
“Patriotism is the belief your country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it.” ~ GEORGE BERNARD SHAW
"God created war so that Americans would learn geography." ~ MARK TWAIN
• In this story, war is a terrible thing we do only because we have to. In this story, the violence of war has a power that unifies and enlightens. In this story, war is how we show ourselves that we’re heroes.
"Show me a hero and I'll write you a tragedy." ~ F. SCOTT FITZGERALD
• Whom we’re fighting against or why doesn’t matter as much as the violence itself...
"It does not matter whether the war is actually happening, and, since no decisive victory is possible, it does not matter whether the war is going badly. All that is needed is that a state of war should exist." ~ GEORGE ORWELL
• ...our stoic willingness to shed blood....
"There is nothing more American than brutal violence. The country was built on it, revels in it and shows every evidence of clinging to it with the crazed, destructive strength of an obsessive lover." ~ BOB HERBERT,
American journalist and columnist
• I was the faceless storm trooper, and the scrappy rebels were the Iraqis.
“Patriotism is the belief your country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it.” ~ GEORGE BERNARD SHAW
35
WOW! This young man knows it!
18
Please rerun this before every 4th of July in perpetuity. What a remarkable piece of writing.
32
Superb, Mr. Scranton!
It's unfortunate, however, that we tend to give greater credibility to anti-war sentiments when they are voiced by those who have experienced combat first-hand. War is stupid, pure and simple - you don't need to play in the game to know that.
It's unfortunate, however, that we tend to give greater credibility to anti-war sentiments when they are voiced by those who have experienced combat first-hand. War is stupid, pure and simple - you don't need to play in the game to know that.
14
Best, briefest articulation of the thing. Just ordered 2 books from Amazon Roy Scranton is the author of the forthcoming novel “War Porn” and “Learning to Die in the Anthropocene: Reflections on the End of a Civilization.”
9
Sadly, I think this essay will fall on mostly deaf ears, and we'll be hearing new calls to storm Raqqa like the beaches Normandy following the next ISIS attack (in the US or some place Americans care about.) Since Vietnam, as a country, we are always on the hunt for a war to "Make America Great Again."
14
A real, honest and straightforward reflection on the way in which American violence is fetishized within the state and body politic. On this day, when the papers are filled with the stories of ISIS wreaking havoc in Bangladesh and Baghdad, it is worth remembering - as this essay does -that ISIS is the direct product of the US invasion of Iraq, an invasion carried out for murky reasons at best, but which was certainly done to further someone's idea of American Empire. There was no heroism behind it; it was an act of violence and aggression that continues to have international consequences.
I have always noted and hated how the US military tends to refer to its enemies as "the bad guys." In the context of Iraq, this was always particularly galling. As Mr. Scranton notes, in Iraq -as in almost everywhere else - the US is the faceless, brutal empire that invades and destroys for its own reasons. The people who rise up against it are, most often, the real "good guys" in the scenario - people who are fighting against a foreign invader and occupying force.
The US, like every European settler state, needs to come to terms with the violence that underpins its origins. it needs to get beyond the idea that violence is the solution to every problem. Sadly, I fear that as the US declines in relative power around the world, the desire of its leaders to turn to violence to hold onto that power will become more pronounced, as will the belief in the redemptive power of violence.
I have always noted and hated how the US military tends to refer to its enemies as "the bad guys." In the context of Iraq, this was always particularly galling. As Mr. Scranton notes, in Iraq -as in almost everywhere else - the US is the faceless, brutal empire that invades and destroys for its own reasons. The people who rise up against it are, most often, the real "good guys" in the scenario - people who are fighting against a foreign invader and occupying force.
The US, like every European settler state, needs to come to terms with the violence that underpins its origins. it needs to get beyond the idea that violence is the solution to every problem. Sadly, I fear that as the US declines in relative power around the world, the desire of its leaders to turn to violence to hold onto that power will become more pronounced, as will the belief in the redemptive power of violence.
110
I almost want to bow and thank the Times for including this piece so prominently on this weekend of false celebrations. But truth is, the Times and other leading news outlets, so called big media "news" networks, err daily in not pointing out the truth as laid out here in the heartfelt but bruising tone of Mr. Scranton.
How often I have hoped leading news organizations would help us understand just exactly what went on in Iraq after 2003, when our man-child president unleashed the fury which in part makes the Middle East what it is today. Why is there little coverage on who we killed there, how many and in what circumstances? World estimates on the number of civilian casualties in the Iraq war differ greatly. Why? Because we don't care to get to the truth. We cover every air crash with astounding precision, leaving no stone unturned in finding answers. But following the trail of who we killed in Iraq? We're not going there.
The stunning vision of this piece, showing the myth of American military might for what it is, an enormous falsity of purpose, a shredding of decency that is bred into all of us, is the best thing many of us will read this holiday, hell, maybe in years. It is the real truth that America itself should be all about. Where did that rightful purpose go?
How often I have hoped leading news organizations would help us understand just exactly what went on in Iraq after 2003, when our man-child president unleashed the fury which in part makes the Middle East what it is today. Why is there little coverage on who we killed there, how many and in what circumstances? World estimates on the number of civilian casualties in the Iraq war differ greatly. Why? Because we don't care to get to the truth. We cover every air crash with astounding precision, leaving no stone unturned in finding answers. But following the trail of who we killed in Iraq? We're not going there.
The stunning vision of this piece, showing the myth of American military might for what it is, an enormous falsity of purpose, a shredding of decency that is bred into all of us, is the best thing many of us will read this holiday, hell, maybe in years. It is the real truth that America itself should be all about. Where did that rightful purpose go?
24
Mr. Scranton, I agree that the U.S. has waged shamefully misguided, unnecessary and cruel conflicts in our history. There's no excuse for what our government did to Native Americans, Vietnamese, and others. And you mention our pursuit of "empire" in your article. That may have been true once, but I'd like to point out an exception we can all be proud of.
WWII ended in both European and Pacific fronts within a five-month span in 1945. It was costly, bitter and brutal. I can imagine how vengeful some Americans and our allies must have felt after losing so many fathers, sons and brothers to German and Japanese aggression. In fact, my own dad, a WWII veteran, told me that a lot of people thought that Germany should no longer be allowed to exist as a nation. Their government, after all, had been responsible for two world wars within 25 years.
Bit instead of exploiting our victories, occupying and trying to extract spoils from Germany and Japan (as the USSR did in other countries) we provided aid and funding to help both countries recover and become the peaceful, productive friends they are today. As sad as I feel about the darker episodes in our history, I'm very proud of this one.
WWII ended in both European and Pacific fronts within a five-month span in 1945. It was costly, bitter and brutal. I can imagine how vengeful some Americans and our allies must have felt after losing so many fathers, sons and brothers to German and Japanese aggression. In fact, my own dad, a WWII veteran, told me that a lot of people thought that Germany should no longer be allowed to exist as a nation. Their government, after all, had been responsible for two world wars within 25 years.
Bit instead of exploiting our victories, occupying and trying to extract spoils from Germany and Japan (as the USSR did in other countries) we provided aid and funding to help both countries recover and become the peaceful, productive friends they are today. As sad as I feel about the darker episodes in our history, I'm very proud of this one.
22
I am sick of going to or watching sports events in which there is almost always some honoring of soldiers. It is not that soldiers should never be honored but I have never seen a teacher honored at one of these events. Or a social worker. Or a nurse. Do we really think the people we send out to fight mostly senseless wars are more important to society than a great teacher?
44
Jeez, reality what a concept, Mr. Scranton has got it right. We celebrate
violence in the Movies and TV from the comfort of our homes never
experiencing the horrors of War like this man or the many before him. Yet When
the Pols decide to fight another foreign war we jump on the bandwagon. Syria or Libya anyone?
violence in the Movies and TV from the comfort of our homes never
experiencing the horrors of War like this man or the many before him. Yet When
the Pols decide to fight another foreign war we jump on the bandwagon. Syria or Libya anyone?
9
This is beautiful. Thank you for your service. And thank you for THIS service.
10
Thank you Mr. Scranton.
Independence Day should be a time for reflection. The Star Spangled Banner and 4th of July are celebration of militaristic nationalism of an empire. Was not independence from England a story of justice against colonialism? Shouldn't it bring us empathy for people in similar circumstances? Oh the day when you could hear a pin drop on the 4th or a quiet reflective thought from a fellow American (or foreign observer). Thank you again Mr. Scranton.
Independence Day should be a time for reflection. The Star Spangled Banner and 4th of July are celebration of militaristic nationalism of an empire. Was not independence from England a story of justice against colonialism? Shouldn't it bring us empathy for people in similar circumstances? Oh the day when you could hear a pin drop on the 4th or a quiet reflective thought from a fellow American (or foreign observer). Thank you again Mr. Scranton.
52
Sorry, Roy -- your entire article is based on a false premise, a false duality between the heroic "good guys" and the horrific "bad guys." We Americans are both, neither and everything in between.
Not long after the first Star Wars movie, we got "The Deer Hunter" and "Apocalypse Now," with their entirely different mythic narratives for American consumption. Your emphatic belief that we somehow treasure "redemption through violence" is belied by 4,500 sad family funerals and countless wounded warriors during the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Perhaps you missed those.
Simply read today's lead story about yet another massive terrorist attack, this time in Baghdad, to see how shallow your notions of American hubris really are. The world is a very dangerous place and no set of "intellectual constructs" can change that. Dismiss the essential role of our troops at your own peril -- not mine. (My son and only child is serving now.)
Not long after the first Star Wars movie, we got "The Deer Hunter" and "Apocalypse Now," with their entirely different mythic narratives for American consumption. Your emphatic belief that we somehow treasure "redemption through violence" is belied by 4,500 sad family funerals and countless wounded warriors during the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Perhaps you missed those.
Simply read today's lead story about yet another massive terrorist attack, this time in Baghdad, to see how shallow your notions of American hubris really are. The world is a very dangerous place and no set of "intellectual constructs" can change that. Dismiss the essential role of our troops at your own peril -- not mine. (My son and only child is serving now.)
48
I can only think of one time since WWII where the American war machine was fighting the good fight, and that was in Bosnia.
Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc, ALL were complete moral failures.
The truth is that our morality is a myth.
Kissinger said, "America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests." For once, he was right. For decades now it seems that all we've had are interests. Interests and nothing else.
No wonder Trump is so popular. He's like Korea, Vietnam and the Iraq War all rolled into one.
Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc, ALL were complete moral failures.
The truth is that our morality is a myth.
Kissinger said, "America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests." For once, he was right. For decades now it seems that all we've had are interests. Interests and nothing else.
No wonder Trump is so popular. He's like Korea, Vietnam and the Iraq War all rolled into one.
6
Would that the Foreign Legion ran out of members, that no veterans remained to honor on November 11. But, alas, the world continues to be infested with evil people. Nazis and Commies of old, Jihadis at present. Folks who think nothing of massacring innocents, as the events of the past few days reinforce. Until the last person willing to kill to impose his will on others dies in the attempt, America will need soldiers.
And, hopefully, more thoughtful soldiers than the author. Vietnam was a noble endeavor, with Americans fighting for the freedom of others. (Tens of millions of people died or were enslaved as a result of our failure, caused, in part, by fools who questioned America’s motives. Here’s to hoping that Secretary Kerry is nightly haunted by the ghosts of those slaughtered so he could grandstand.)
In Star Wars, the rebels fought against tyranny; in Iraq, they fought to impose it. In Star Wars, the practitioners of the ancient religion defended the innocent. In Iraq, they slaughter the innocent. What kind of boob refers to America as an “empire”? Perhaps someone who considers Zinn an historian. As wiser men have noted, the only territory America ever claimed was enough ground to bury our children who died fighting for the freedom of others.
We have a word to describe those unwilling to fight for freedom: slave. Or, just as often, corpse.
When ISIS stops blowing things up, we can, too. Until then, it behooves us to be better at blowing things up than they are.
And, hopefully, more thoughtful soldiers than the author. Vietnam was a noble endeavor, with Americans fighting for the freedom of others. (Tens of millions of people died or were enslaved as a result of our failure, caused, in part, by fools who questioned America’s motives. Here’s to hoping that Secretary Kerry is nightly haunted by the ghosts of those slaughtered so he could grandstand.)
In Star Wars, the rebels fought against tyranny; in Iraq, they fought to impose it. In Star Wars, the practitioners of the ancient religion defended the innocent. In Iraq, they slaughter the innocent. What kind of boob refers to America as an “empire”? Perhaps someone who considers Zinn an historian. As wiser men have noted, the only territory America ever claimed was enough ground to bury our children who died fighting for the freedom of others.
We have a word to describe those unwilling to fight for freedom: slave. Or, just as often, corpse.
When ISIS stops blowing things up, we can, too. Until then, it behooves us to be better at blowing things up than they are.
9
What comes to mind is Theodore Roosevelt, who bravely fought and believed battle was necessary to create a great nation and manhood, until his sons were killed in war. Suddenly it all changed for him.
5
Beautiful- thank you for your intelligent, insightful article. Why doesn't someone like Roy Scranton run for office?? America would have a fighting chance of getting it's civility, respect and integrity back.
4
Well done. I wish more Americans saw things the way you do.
4
After reading this column, I'm really looking forward to reading your novel, Mr. Scranton.
2
Amazing Roy! Thanks.
3
He's obviously forgotten the carnage, blood, and fear that engendered the beloved documents he mentions, and the country he belittles.
His romanticized, "leftist" views that war and warriors should be moral, in the heat of battle, is a perversion of any reality that has ever existed anent wars and soldiers.
He clearly needs his escape into fantasy.
His romanticized, "leftist" views that war and warriors should be moral, in the heat of battle, is a perversion of any reality that has ever existed anent wars and soldiers.
He clearly needs his escape into fantasy.
8
Thank you for this moving column. You have perfectly described the reason I detest Memorial Day. Of course I mourn the deaths of our young people in war, but the day seldom if ever includes a thoughtful examination of how to do things differently in the future so we'll lose fewer of the next generation to stupid, ultimately senseless state-sponsored violence.
9
It's unfortunate the author quickly dismisses the Prequels since they deal with the very issues he wants to indict the original movies for. The way institutional violence morally corrupts individuals, how people are willing to surrender freedom for the illusion of security, how the military industrial complex and corporations profit from war, how adopting the tactics of your enemy makes you no better than them, how seeing the world in absolutes blinds you to the truth, these issues are dealt with head on in Episodes 1-3.
7
What a beautifully written piece. Empowering, courageous and cautionary.
2
Thank you.... but....
For every truth stated here there are many avoided...
And while we all can regret the reality of war, we can't, yet, deny its necessity.
For every truth stated here there are many avoided...
And while we all can regret the reality of war, we can't, yet, deny its necessity.
9
Amazingly, the most sensible Americans I've heard are from the military, specially war veterans who saw combat.
An interesting pattern I noticed about the USA is that their "hawks" are usually civilians. The architects of Iraq were civilians, not Pentagon personnel. The people who is more in favor of foreign invasion are people who know they will not see combat. The more bloodthirsty a politician or person is in the USA, the more distant he or she is from the military, let alone combat.
An interesting pattern I noticed about the USA is that their "hawks" are usually civilians. The architects of Iraq were civilians, not Pentagon personnel. The people who is more in favor of foreign invasion are people who know they will not see combat. The more bloodthirsty a politician or person is in the USA, the more distant he or she is from the military, let alone combat.
15
Twenty years ago the United States had something called the Powell Doctrine, based on lessons learned in the Vietnam War, and developed by Colin Powell, who was then Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
1. Is a vital national security interest threatened?
2. Do we have a clear attainable objective?
3. Have the risks and costs been fully and frankly analyzed?
4. Have all other non-violent policy means been fully exhausted?
5. Is there a plausible exit strategy to avoid endless entanglement?
6. Have the consequences of our action been fully considered?
7. Is the action supported by the American people?
8. Do we have genuine broad international support?
I miss those rational days.
1. Is a vital national security interest threatened?
2. Do we have a clear attainable objective?
3. Have the risks and costs been fully and frankly analyzed?
4. Have all other non-violent policy means been fully exhausted?
5. Is there a plausible exit strategy to avoid endless entanglement?
6. Have the consequences of our action been fully considered?
7. Is the action supported by the American people?
8. Do we have genuine broad international support?
I miss those rational days.
29
Bravo!
4
Beautiful piece. Well done.
9
This is a beautiful and truthful essay, written by a man who was once drawn by American violence and now realizes how destructive that violence can be.
If there is one trait that marks Americans, it is our devotion to violence. From sports to foreign policy, violence is the foremost characteristic. But it is the violence of our foreign and military policies which is most remarkable. Because the US largely emerged from WWII unscathed, we have assumed we must be the policeman of the world. This means any time there is a challenging or even questioning of our world views on economics and politics, we must intervene militarily to squelch it. Our military interventions from Vietnam to Iraq in 2003 have been egregious tragedies that wreaked havoc on populations across the world. They have demonstrated overwhelmingly how wrong our conventional foreign policy views are.
The notion of "exceptionalism", that we are an exceptional nation which must defend liberty and capitalism throughout the world, is embraced by most of our leaders and is the root of much of America's violence overseas. It is embraced by Hillary Clinton, who best is described as a neoconservative with respect to her foreign policy views.
America will become an exceptional nation when it abandons its proclivity of foreign military intervention for leading by diplomacy and multilateralism. If our nation is truly exceptional then we will lead by example, not force.
Tom Krebsbach
Vietnam veteran
If there is one trait that marks Americans, it is our devotion to violence. From sports to foreign policy, violence is the foremost characteristic. But it is the violence of our foreign and military policies which is most remarkable. Because the US largely emerged from WWII unscathed, we have assumed we must be the policeman of the world. This means any time there is a challenging or even questioning of our world views on economics and politics, we must intervene militarily to squelch it. Our military interventions from Vietnam to Iraq in 2003 have been egregious tragedies that wreaked havoc on populations across the world. They have demonstrated overwhelmingly how wrong our conventional foreign policy views are.
The notion of "exceptionalism", that we are an exceptional nation which must defend liberty and capitalism throughout the world, is embraced by most of our leaders and is the root of much of America's violence overseas. It is embraced by Hillary Clinton, who best is described as a neoconservative with respect to her foreign policy views.
America will become an exceptional nation when it abandons its proclivity of foreign military intervention for leading by diplomacy and multilateralism. If our nation is truly exceptional then we will lead by example, not force.
Tom Krebsbach
Vietnam veteran
32
Beautiful column, with so much truth. Yes, there is something great and wonderful about America, aside from our myths of violence. As President Obama has said, it is the promise of ideals so often betrayed but still valid and still a beacon to the world.
10
I was a conscientious objector years ago. Never drafted, but volunteered alternative service anyway because noone is going to say I am not a patriot. I will never, ever disrespect a veteran. But somehow, the default American behaviour to honor all things military seems, not just shallow, but dangerous. This article explained my core feelings better than my gut instincts led me all these years. Very, very much appreciated.
195
My wife and I have both taught in urban high schools for decades. Neither of us went into or stayed int these roles because we were looking for pats on the back. However, as I age and increasingly scan the obituaries for familiar names, I often wonder: Why is that veterans are the only ones who are denoted by an American flag? Why is that friends of mine who served for two years during peacetime are somehow more patriotic than those who teach the kids no one else wants to teach, who work with the sick that no one else wants to treat, and who strive behind the scenes to bring decency and a sense of belonging to their communities? Because, as the author suggests, those stories do not further the myth, do not advance the narrative. Such endeavors are, as William James pointed out so long ago, "the moral equivalent of war." But there are still few things that remain as American as violence and war.
189
very interesting column. other nations, even those at peace and allies of the usa, understand the disconnect between how americans see themselves and how they're seen in the rest of the world. most americans believe the usa is ALWAYS a force for good despite examples of the opposite stretching back throughout its history which are ignored, sloughed off or just unknown to vast swaths of the 'folks'.....the media has a lot to do with it. the august nyt included. the fear of being labelled anti American or unpatriotic is a powerful force which paralyzes even the most biggest, most successful and richest companies in the usa. there's an easily fooled, non critical thinking audience of millions of 'folks' who belief the usa is the Teflon country that murders and bombs for only the purest of reasons. the Japanese tortured thru waterboarding during ww2. the usa would never do that, they do enhanced interrogation. same marketing that turned sugar crisp cereal into golden crisp. see....it's healthy now!
8
EVERYONE should read this article!!!
"Instead of honoring our troops, whose chief virtues are obedience and aggressiveness, we could honor our great dissenters and conscientious objectors."
I was with you until that statement. Shame.
I recall waiting to board a flight in San Francisco airport sometime after our initial deployment to Afghanistan when a number of warriors from that arena started to deplane, men and women, and the waiting passengers just sat there. The troops looked straight ahead, clearly concerned about how they were being received. I stood, alone, and started to applaud. Within 15 seconds, hundreds of others joined me and the applause continued until all had deplaned and vanished from sight. I could hear other gate area groups picking up on our applause. I hope it continued.
And I hope it continues. Whatever you may feel about our administrations' policies over the years: Our troops put their lives on the line, and should be honored for their service.
Mr. Scranton: For shame!
I was with you until that statement. Shame.
I recall waiting to board a flight in San Francisco airport sometime after our initial deployment to Afghanistan when a number of warriors from that arena started to deplane, men and women, and the waiting passengers just sat there. The troops looked straight ahead, clearly concerned about how they were being received. I stood, alone, and started to applaud. Within 15 seconds, hundreds of others joined me and the applause continued until all had deplaned and vanished from sight. I could hear other gate area groups picking up on our applause. I hope it continued.
And I hope it continues. Whatever you may feel about our administrations' policies over the years: Our troops put their lives on the line, and should be honored for their service.
Mr. Scranton: For shame!
14
While I agree with part of the writers argument, I would have to respectfully disagree with the thesis. Whether we like it or not, we humans are violent animals. We may have evolved to speak, write and develop technologies, but at the end of the day, we have not fully evolved out of the eat-or-be-eaten law of the African wild that we came out of. Bland evidence of this is the fact that we still live in countries, wave flags and draw international borders... As long as these remain, and they will remain for the foreseeable future, we will have wars and we will have violence.
This is not to say that we should not work towards a better future - and that is the part of the argument that I agree with. Perhaps we do not do enough to celebrate the other aspects of our Independence from Britain - that the system we should strive towards is one built on representation and civil discourse. But at the same time, do not forget that we would not be independent but for the very real battles that were fought against the British... they were never going to hand us freedom out of the goodness of their hearts.
This is not to say that we should not work towards a better future - and that is the part of the argument that I agree with. Perhaps we do not do enough to celebrate the other aspects of our Independence from Britain - that the system we should strive towards is one built on representation and civil discourse. But at the same time, do not forget that we would not be independent but for the very real battles that were fought against the British... they were never going to hand us freedom out of the goodness of their hearts.
5
Ideally, all the practicing to break things and kill people sustains a deterring awareness of how stupid warfare is.
More typically, people arrive at a decision to use these skills, as if that would make it all worthwhile.
More typically, people arrive at a decision to use these skills, as if that would make it all worthwhile.
One day after the great dissenter Elie Wiesel passes away, a man who reminds us that memory of our past is so important to our culture, we have a piece of writing that tells us the same thing. A veteran who tells us to not forget how we forged this country, not the myth of it. This country is engaged in a culture war that pits those crusading to maintain the myth of American exceptionalism, and those forcing us to take the makeup off and take a long, hard look in the mirror. I look forward to this author's books.
9
When talking about "defending American political and economic interests" let's be clear to separate the interests of the people from the interests of trans-national corporations. Very few Americans wanted any of our wars. This is why, on the anniversary of our country's birth, we should reflect upon the importance of getting money out of politics, re-distributing ownership of media outlets, and forcing the interests of the masses back into Washington DC. This year saw insurgent uprisings in both Republican and Democratic primaries. This year was only the beginning, and the tip of the iceberg.
3
I wish all current and former soldiers agreed with the authors thinking, but the truth is they do not. I am not sure if they are just a vocal minority or an unfortunate majority, but there seem to be plenty of veterans with combat experience who continue to defend and even glorify what they did ( even things like the incredibly stupid invasion of Iraq which really is beyond defending).Most unfortunately, these "happy warriors" actively campaign and vote for the same chicken hawk politicians who have repeatedly gotten us involved in unnecessary foreign wars/occupations. I would welcome a piece that addresses this apparent disconnect between the experiences and reactions of our combat veterans.
6
A wonderful think piece. However, in our past there WERE things worth fighting for. Despite the flaws in the American dream my question is simple: is there "anything" that Mr. Scranton feels is worth fighting and dying for? Our enemies do. Do we?
6
I think Star Trek is a better analogy than Star Wars.
We think we are the peaceful knowledge seekers aboard the Starship Enterprise.
But we are really the war-mongering Klingons.
We think we are the peaceful knowledge seekers aboard the Starship Enterprise.
But we are really the war-mongering Klingons.
9
This is a wonderful piece that should be mandatory reading for anyone who considers him/herself to be an "American".
I join the author in his call to action, because that's what this column is. More political involvement by more people is necessary, as well as a true study of our history and the ideals on which that history was built. But most of all, if we are to establish our country once again as an ideal, our commitment to do so must be ongoing.
And there's the rub. So many of us have joined the "instant gratification" culture; the "I've got mine, so I don't care" culture; the "keep those people out of my neighborhood" culture; the "I gave at the office" culture.
I'm grateful for the piece, and explore Roy Scranton's writings. I will hope to meet him someday down the road as part of the political revolution started by Senator Sanders. And I hope this column is widely read. I'm about to forward it to a number of my friends.
I join the author in his call to action, because that's what this column is. More political involvement by more people is necessary, as well as a true study of our history and the ideals on which that history was built. But most of all, if we are to establish our country once again as an ideal, our commitment to do so must be ongoing.
And there's the rub. So many of us have joined the "instant gratification" culture; the "I've got mine, so I don't care" culture; the "keep those people out of my neighborhood" culture; the "I gave at the office" culture.
I'm grateful for the piece, and explore Roy Scranton's writings. I will hope to meet him someday down the road as part of the political revolution started by Senator Sanders. And I hope this column is widely read. I'm about to forward it to a number of my friends.
6
This is an eloquent, thoughtful and historical commentary on the American cultural acceptance of violence, from totally unnecessary and unprovoked wars abroad to gun violence at home in our streets. Violence does beget violence and as we continue on our current path, we set ourselves up for potential disaster. We are not only arming ourselves to the teeth, we are arming the entire world as well and helping to bankrupt our economy in the process.
It really doesn't have to be this way, but the challenge to turn the tide is daunting. As one Black Civil Rights Activist put it in the1960's: Violence is as American as Apple Pie.
It really doesn't have to be this way, but the challenge to turn the tide is daunting. As one Black Civil Rights Activist put it in the1960's: Violence is as American as Apple Pie.
11
This sentiment could not have been stated better. Thank you Mr. Scranton.
My only suggestion would be: Since at least WW2, Americans have been fighting, dying, and bringing war upon 'the other' for the Corporate State.
The stupidity, hideousness, and out-right criminality of our (our!) wars of choice will continue, until people of good will can change the paradigm.
My only suggestion would be: Since at least WW2, Americans have been fighting, dying, and bringing war upon 'the other' for the Corporate State.
The stupidity, hideousness, and out-right criminality of our (our!) wars of choice will continue, until people of good will can change the paradigm.
11
The human Jesus of the Gospels would weep, this time
with joy to find at least one intellectual with a great
heart in Roy Scranton.
with joy to find at least one intellectual with a great
heart in Roy Scranton.
9
I kept waiting for the conservative cop-out in this article -- that despite certain "mistakes" and inadvertent "excesses," the military "keeps us safe" -- and it never came. Getting Americans to see that war is business and this business's wars are horrible atrocities is an uphill battle. Americans' accepting responsibility for self-government rather than being led around by the nose by the military-industrial complex is a worthy goal.
116
There is a lot in this to think about. It helps that this author has obviously thought deeply about it already, and that it is very well written.
What he writes is what my father thought after a long hard war in the Southwest Pacific in WW2. The author's grandfather, silent about Vietnam, acted as did my father. This author speaks to what I was raised to believe.
"The real gap is between our subconscious belief that righteous violence can redeem us, even ennoble us, and the chastening truth that violence debases and corrupts."
For many years my father hired cops. He looked for men who knew that. He mostly found them mostly with military experience, but he found an ex-priest who knew it too. They were ready to be violent when needed, but it was a last choice with which they were not pleased. There were a few who were pleased with their own violence, and they were problems who had to be fired.
Their own heroes were the ones among them who saved lives at great risk -- like the man who went face first into the torch of a car fire to cut out a child caught in a seat belt. They were proud of that. They were not proud but appalled from wrestling on the ground to make a difficult arrest. It had to be done, they valued those who backed them up in the doing, but it was not a shining moment. Finding a kid barefoot in the snow, and taking him to help was a shining moment.
"It’s our choice. We make our myths. We show by our actions" but also by the actions that we honor most highly.
What he writes is what my father thought after a long hard war in the Southwest Pacific in WW2. The author's grandfather, silent about Vietnam, acted as did my father. This author speaks to what I was raised to believe.
"The real gap is between our subconscious belief that righteous violence can redeem us, even ennoble us, and the chastening truth that violence debases and corrupts."
For many years my father hired cops. He looked for men who knew that. He mostly found them mostly with military experience, but he found an ex-priest who knew it too. They were ready to be violent when needed, but it was a last choice with which they were not pleased. There were a few who were pleased with their own violence, and they were problems who had to be fired.
Their own heroes were the ones among them who saved lives at great risk -- like the man who went face first into the torch of a car fire to cut out a child caught in a seat belt. They were proud of that. They were not proud but appalled from wrestling on the ground to make a difficult arrest. It had to be done, they valued those who backed them up in the doing, but it was not a shining moment. Finding a kid barefoot in the snow, and taking him to help was a shining moment.
"It’s our choice. We make our myths. We show by our actions" but also by the actions that we honor most highly.
54
Wow...
Someone spoke out for peace on Independence Day Weekend and got that speech onto the front page of the NYT!
What a delightful surprise.
An era of peace, if it ever arrives, will radically alter the America's brand identity. The flag looks cool, so I say leave it alone.
But, how about changing the national anthem?
"America, The Beautiful" is a much nicer tune and it has the advantage of being something the average person alreay knows and can actually sing without sounding like they're trying out a comedy act.
Enough with the rockets and bombs, already.
I do not even like fireworks, anymore.
The perpetual wars spoiled the show for me.
Someone spoke out for peace on Independence Day Weekend and got that speech onto the front page of the NYT!
What a delightful surprise.
An era of peace, if it ever arrives, will radically alter the America's brand identity. The flag looks cool, so I say leave it alone.
But, how about changing the national anthem?
"America, The Beautiful" is a much nicer tune and it has the advantage of being something the average person alreay knows and can actually sing without sounding like they're trying out a comedy act.
Enough with the rockets and bombs, already.
I do not even like fireworks, anymore.
The perpetual wars spoiled the show for me.
200
Amen!
58
Beautiful, brave writing and insights. Thank you.
102
"People say walking on water is a miracle. To me, walking peacefully on Earth is the real miracle. --Thich Nhat Hanh
131
I enjoyed reading Roy’s ongoing journey. I agree that its about commitment. What could this commitment look like? Maybe we need to start thinking beyond our traditional political party platforms, and deeper than our cultural biases. What if we moved beyond our historical American myth of violence and moved toward an authentic peaceful approach? Maybe we should consider that all of life should be valued equally from conception until natural death. That taking someone else’s life whether as a form of birth control or as a form of penalty or as a form of “protecting” our freedom should be reconsidered. When we begin making exceptions to the value of life then our commitment is inconsistent and lacks integrity. This approach to peace is very difficult but must be seriously considered because our extremely violent American history has only stimulated more violence and will continue to do so unless we begin thinking different, believing different, and ultimately acting different.
13
Good luck with this in a country where a substantial fraction of the people threaten armed insurrection over public policies intended to reduce resort to deadly force for assault and self defense.
1
Robert - not all lives are of equal value - especially when comparing an embryo which most certainly is not an independent, aware organism with a woman who is an independently functioning person. Women are not life support systems for a uterus.
I note that you did not mention cetaceans or bonobos or other non-human lives as being worthy of consideration. Exceptions perhaps - or are you vegan?
I note that you did not mention cetaceans or bonobos or other non-human lives as being worthy of consideration. Exceptions perhaps - or are you vegan?
2
Scranton's absolutely right to criticize the way we Americans think that Star Wars-style violence solves anything.
But in doing so, he wrongly makes it an either-or proposition. We actually do build lots of things. The Twin Towers come immediately to mind, not to mention all the projects we (vainly) poured money into in Afghanistan and Iraq. One of our probes is arriving at Jupiter tomorrow, just as one of our landers arrived at Mars a few July Fourths ago.
Many of us do celebrate our thoughtfulness, our humility, and our reasonableness. We listen to others, share ideas, and engage in debates -- peacefully. I'm a good American and I've never killed anyone, and there's nothing contradictory or irrational about that.
Happy Fourth.
But in doing so, he wrongly makes it an either-or proposition. We actually do build lots of things. The Twin Towers come immediately to mind, not to mention all the projects we (vainly) poured money into in Afghanistan and Iraq. One of our probes is arriving at Jupiter tomorrow, just as one of our landers arrived at Mars a few July Fourths ago.
Many of us do celebrate our thoughtfulness, our humility, and our reasonableness. We listen to others, share ideas, and engage in debates -- peacefully. I'm a good American and I've never killed anyone, and there's nothing contradictory or irrational about that.
Happy Fourth.
18
" I'm a good American and I've never killed anyone, and there's nothing contradictory or irrational about that"
You share collective responsibility for what our country and its military do around the world. You voted for the politicians that created the policies and your taxes helped finance the carrying out of those policies.
You share collective responsibility for what our country and its military do around the world. You voted for the politicians that created the policies and your taxes helped finance the carrying out of those policies.
2
So many thought provoking ideas here – thank you for this beautifully written piece Mr. Scranton. I too grew up with Star Wars. It would seem that we have come to similar conclusions concerning its cultural role while taking very different paths to get there...
“After watching the trailer for the J.J Abrams reboot, I commented to my partner that it looked like the new characters in the film were essentially fanboys (and fangirl in the case of Rey of course), in absolute awe of the heroes we have seen in the past films. Pretty clever in terms of drawing in an audience full of fans that have grown up watching Star Wars, allowing them to vicariously participate through the on screen awe/adoration of these new characters, but how does it play to a younger audience? There is something disturbing about a narrative honoring and celebrating the heroes of the war while simultaneously excising the political machinations that led to the war. What are they fighting for? Does it matter any more?”
http://whatisthemissingpoint.blogspot.com/2016/01/star-wars-in-jj-verse....
“After watching the trailer for the J.J Abrams reboot, I commented to my partner that it looked like the new characters in the film were essentially fanboys (and fangirl in the case of Rey of course), in absolute awe of the heroes we have seen in the past films. Pretty clever in terms of drawing in an audience full of fans that have grown up watching Star Wars, allowing them to vicariously participate through the on screen awe/adoration of these new characters, but how does it play to a younger audience? There is something disturbing about a narrative honoring and celebrating the heroes of the war while simultaneously excising the political machinations that led to the war. What are they fighting for? Does it matter any more?”
http://whatisthemissingpoint.blogspot.com/2016/01/star-wars-in-jj-verse....
10
Even more distressing than the glorification of mayhem and cruelty celebrated in our cultural and patriotic myths is the realization that we take them in not just through CGI but also in our mothers' milk and eons of our simian evolution! Civilization is largely a matter of holding at bay behavior that our genes clamor for. I'm so grateful to people like Mr. Scranton who speak the truth about what hides behind our bumper-stickers and chest-thumping. One ray of hope is that through an accident of history our Constitution allows such bracing and salutary subversion to be written and read, which is not the case with some of our "allies." And some day perhaps Edward Snowden will be allowed to come home as well.
22
"There is another version of America beyond the noise our fireworks make: not military strength, but the deliberate commitment to collective self-determination." Having recently visited Israel then badgered by Pro-Palestinian friends prompting me to read some Benny Morris, I immediately thought about questions we should be asking about what is going on there regarding "collective self-determination."
7
A disturbing thought recently occurred to me as I counted down the days before the next Macy’s extravaganza: if the crackle of a madman’s AR-15 pierces the din, how will I distinguish it from the fireworks? Twentieth century struggles among the great powers to determine the future of the world resulted in globalism, which made war obsolete, but not violence. As world boundaries continue to dissolve, the fight for economic, social and environmental justice will rest increasingly in the hands of an informed world citizenry whose resolve in the face of violence will display the highest virtue of a soldier: the willingness to walk knowingly into harm’s way.
9
At this time war as an instrument of policy is a failure. We have not won a war since 1945. Mr Scranton's column should be required reading for our nationally elected officials and politicians.
80
So true. You cannot change human minds with killing. You can only stir resolve.
I agree.....but with ONE modification.....war as an instrument of policy WITHOUT a total dedication to WIN.....that IS the failure.........and its paid for in the lives of
soldiers and sailors who took an OATH to defend their country.
soldiers and sailors who took an OATH to defend their country.
Mr. Scranton has the spirit right, but he appears to be morphing the true culprit and its enactor incorrectly. The military; the uniformed services fight the wars and perform the duties they have trained for. Politicians including the civilian leadership of the non-uniformed DOD (they are not military) tell them where to go and what to do.
The former group deserve every honor they receive on days like the 4th of July and Veterans Day (although perhaps not all of Memorial Day which was once Remembrance Day honoring both sides in America's own epic bloodletting). Vietnam and all our involvement in the Middle East are both follies attributable to political leadership rather than the military which carried them out. Vietnam was a Cold War mistake. All of our Middle East adventure was deliberate from the Gulf War which was none of our business to the Iraq War which was criminal even though the criminals have escaped judgement.
The former group deserve every honor they receive on days like the 4th of July and Veterans Day (although perhaps not all of Memorial Day which was once Remembrance Day honoring both sides in America's own epic bloodletting). Vietnam and all our involvement in the Middle East are both follies attributable to political leadership rather than the military which carried them out. Vietnam was a Cold War mistake. All of our Middle East adventure was deliberate from the Gulf War which was none of our business to the Iraq War which was criminal even though the criminals have escaped judgement.
140
President Bush spoke about the U.S. being an example of freedom for the rest of the world to emulate, but that is not how the Third World sees us. To them, we are the most successful British colony as we are run by Anglo-Saxons, not Native Americans.
By the end of WW I, the developing world, with the exception of the deserts of Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia and the rain forests of South America, were under the control of Western powers. The indigenous peoples would like Europeans, us included, out of their lands and lives. The countries in western Asia (Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Israel, for example) and in Africa exist only because Europeans came in and set up artificial boundaries for their convenience by disregarding tribal and cultural realities.
Europeans/Americans set up banana republics around the world to exploit the riches and set up friendly dictators. This is not a war between Christendom and Islam, it is a war between disenfranchised peoples (many of whom happen to be Muslim) against the colonial powers that are still trying to exert control, often by force. Think oil.
By the end of WW I, the developing world, with the exception of the deserts of Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia and the rain forests of South America, were under the control of Western powers. The indigenous peoples would like Europeans, us included, out of their lands and lives. The countries in western Asia (Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Israel, for example) and in Africa exist only because Europeans came in and set up artificial boundaries for their convenience by disregarding tribal and cultural realities.
Europeans/Americans set up banana republics around the world to exploit the riches and set up friendly dictators. This is not a war between Christendom and Islam, it is a war between disenfranchised peoples (many of whom happen to be Muslim) against the colonial powers that are still trying to exert control, often by force. Think oil.
26
This comment ignores the existence of the military-industrial complex and its political influence on our government. The immensity of our military budget and the global deployment of our forces are not simply due to the decisions of "politicians" or "non-uniformed" officials at the Pentagon. The military itself is a big part of the problem.
14
Good point; But there are no wars of choice if soldiers refuse to fight them. Let the old men in their offices and penthouses pick up a gun if their 'devotion to peace and freedom' is so all encompassing
3
Thank you for publishing this powerful, timely, and mercilessly honest essay and thanks to Mr. Scranton for writing it. I have been following his work for some time and encourage other readers to do so as well.
Then after reading his work and grasping it's message, let's go about making peace, not war, and let's learn to live in a sustainable manner, two endeavors that are inextricably related and absolutely essential. And let's stop kidding ourselves about our nation's history and accept the dark legacy of racism, slavery, imperialism and violence that underlies our dominant role in the world. Only then can we begin to build a lasting peace and a sustainable economy. Peace.
Then after reading his work and grasping it's message, let's go about making peace, not war, and let's learn to live in a sustainable manner, two endeavors that are inextricably related and absolutely essential. And let's stop kidding ourselves about our nation's history and accept the dark legacy of racism, slavery, imperialism and violence that underlies our dominant role in the world. Only then can we begin to build a lasting peace and a sustainable economy. Peace.
63
I'd like to see the nyt work at finding things to like and encourage in America. The nay saying is self defeating.
4
Nay saying? Right. Let's just continue bombing and invading, murdering and maiming. Why is this guy bumming us out with all his negativity?
Your comment goes right to the heart of what this thoughtful human being is trying to communicate!
Your comment goes right to the heart of what this thoughtful human being is trying to communicate!
63
Introspection make us better.
27
War, like so much else in life, is full of paradox and irony. The writings of Andrew Bacevich and Chris Hedges reveal much of the tragic dualities in our most dangerous practice - politically motivated mortal combat. War fuels technological innovation and social reinvention. Like floods and fire, it paves the way for new life and opportunities while it visits the horrors of devastation. We're all born in blood and pain and we all die in fear and confusion, just as well as joy, sweat, loss and triumph. I appreciate the author's sacrifice and honest appraisals. I can scarcely imagine myself giving up so much for an uncertain cause. I think we civilians recognize the magnitude of our soldier's fate, and we celebrate their heroism regardless of a conflict's cause or outcome. Often, lies surround our entry into wars and the meaning of their outcome. As a child during Viet Nam's escalation who just signed up for the draft as the war ended, I would have never been willing to join in that fight. As a 45 year old father and husband, I followed the run-up to the Iraq invasion closely, and saw it for what it was and protested our entry to little avail. I recommend reading what George Washington had to say about war and state power. I thank this author for his dual contributions as the bravest kind of citizen.
32
There are some major faults in the parallel you draw between Iraq (or the Muslim world more generally) and the "warriors of an ancient religion rising from the desert to fight a faceless empire".
For starters, the Jedi didn't busy themselves anywhere near as enthusiastically with blowing their fellow countrymen to smithereens as "resistance".
They and their countrymen also weren't part of a massive hypocrisy where a vast majority of them would emigrate to the Empire if given the opportunity.
America has plenty of faults, but a view of what its detractors in the Middle East would do instead reveals which civilization really follows the Sith.
For starters, the Jedi didn't busy themselves anywhere near as enthusiastically with blowing their fellow countrymen to smithereens as "resistance".
They and their countrymen also weren't part of a massive hypocrisy where a vast majority of them would emigrate to the Empire if given the opportunity.
America has plenty of faults, but a view of what its detractors in the Middle East would do instead reveals which civilization really follows the Sith.
9
[blowing their fellow countrymen to smithereens as "resistance".]
They are only fellow countrymen because Europeans made it that way.
The countries in western Asia (Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Israel, for example) and in Africa exist only because Europeans came in and set up artificial boundaries for their convenience by disregarding tribal and cultural realities.
They are only fellow countrymen because Europeans made it that way.
The countries in western Asia (Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Israel, for example) and in Africa exist only because Europeans came in and set up artificial boundaries for their convenience by disregarding tribal and cultural realities.
11
Cristobal: How well have we been treating our fellow countrymen?
Native Americans? Catholics? Jews? Blacks? Muslims?
Perhaps a little introspection is in order.
Native Americans? Catholics? Jews? Blacks? Muslims?
Perhaps a little introspection is in order.
16
America actually does a lot of introspection. One doesn't have to be perfect to recognize that civilizations can still be compared to each other on various measures, and that present-day problems take a bit of a priority in that weight over the sins of past generations.
The minority groups you mention are a complicated story. They also know that for the past several decades they have far greater protections and opportunities than in the civilization I am criticizing - which was a full partner in the slave trade of centuries past, and whose language (Arabic) is not spoken from the Atlantic to Iran because they asked nicely for the land.
There are plenty of sins to go around for everyone. It doesn't mean we can't make judgements on what's happening right now, and there is simply no comparison between the direction the values much of the rest of the world are heading and the direction that the Muslim world, particularly in the Arab heartland, is heading. The Muslim world has been doing a lot of guilt tripping of the rest of the world without that introspection you mentioned. And it's okay to assert our values in these matters.
One of the most important considerations I give when making my own observations is whether I'd want me or my wife to live in some other civilization. I would not live in most Muslim countries. It's clear on this point that most Muslims agree - they don't want to live in their countries either.
So, introspection: What are we doing right?
The minority groups you mention are a complicated story. They also know that for the past several decades they have far greater protections and opportunities than in the civilization I am criticizing - which was a full partner in the slave trade of centuries past, and whose language (Arabic) is not spoken from the Atlantic to Iran because they asked nicely for the land.
There are plenty of sins to go around for everyone. It doesn't mean we can't make judgements on what's happening right now, and there is simply no comparison between the direction the values much of the rest of the world are heading and the direction that the Muslim world, particularly in the Arab heartland, is heading. The Muslim world has been doing a lot of guilt tripping of the rest of the world without that introspection you mentioned. And it's okay to assert our values in these matters.
One of the most important considerations I give when making my own observations is whether I'd want me or my wife to live in some other civilization. I would not live in most Muslim countries. It's clear on this point that most Muslims agree - they don't want to live in their countries either.
So, introspection: What are we doing right?
2
Mr. Scranton seems to be feeling the same thing many of us do after serving in the military: suckered! All the blather about "defending our freedom", American "exceptionalism", and being assigned "hero" status for lacing up our boots, is just a con to get us to carry the water for Empire and the armaments industry. And now the violence of Empire is brought home to be used against our own citizens in the brutal militarization of our local police. America is delusional that displays of military bombers and fireworks represent anything other than violence toward our fellow man.
345
Thank you, Mr. Stanton, for a tremendously perceptive and brave statement - and thank you, NY Times, for what I think of as a brave decision to publish what some might consider treasonous.
I have long believed that our myths encourage such violence, and that the overwhelming modern myth maker was not religion (tough it's bad enough) or government, but our shared time at the movies. I wonder if Mr. Stanton would have joined the military if he had not been suckled on Star Wars and a thousand other entertainments - westerns, war movies, fantasy war ("Lord of the Rings", "Game of Thrones"), torture porn ("Hostel", "Saw"), revenge porn ("Taken" ad infinitum) and violence as comedy (a zillion buddy-cop films).
How many other recruits signed up - and how many citizens are blithe about supporting war - because they assume that the mission would be not only noble but clean, neat and stunningly visual?
You know the meme in movies, where the oh-so-cool hero walks towards the camera while the explosion he has just unleashed blossoms just 50 feet behind him - an explosion which in reality would knock his own head from his torso? I think such myths should be a crime, or should at least have a live, on-screen disclaimer.
When will more of us wake up to the fact that we routinely accept, trivialize and encourage violence as entertainment? It's too late to undo the memes that resonate from ancient religions, but we could work to stop the current entertainment-miltary complex.
I have long believed that our myths encourage such violence, and that the overwhelming modern myth maker was not religion (tough it's bad enough) or government, but our shared time at the movies. I wonder if Mr. Stanton would have joined the military if he had not been suckled on Star Wars and a thousand other entertainments - westerns, war movies, fantasy war ("Lord of the Rings", "Game of Thrones"), torture porn ("Hostel", "Saw"), revenge porn ("Taken" ad infinitum) and violence as comedy (a zillion buddy-cop films).
How many other recruits signed up - and how many citizens are blithe about supporting war - because they assume that the mission would be not only noble but clean, neat and stunningly visual?
You know the meme in movies, where the oh-so-cool hero walks towards the camera while the explosion he has just unleashed blossoms just 50 feet behind him - an explosion which in reality would knock his own head from his torso? I think such myths should be a crime, or should at least have a live, on-screen disclaimer.
When will more of us wake up to the fact that we routinely accept, trivialize and encourage violence as entertainment? It's too late to undo the memes that resonate from ancient religions, but we could work to stop the current entertainment-miltary complex.
40
This was a beautiful piece and I will look for Mr. Scranton's novel.
19
A lovely piece. It strikes me that we have an element of the Roman Empire in us... of political might spawned in military might. Military strength paradoxically makes stability where our economic interests and cultural values can carry the day. At the same time, we can hope that military power is not the primary thing we as a country are known for, but is instead a tool to reach a higher ideal. A British friend of mine once remarked that Americans are the most optimistic people he has known...That in America, you can do anything. That might not be completely true of course, since we have out plutocrats and our tribalism like every other country. Still, there is an essential value in optimism--for a better future, for possibility, for love, and for hope. Somehow our political culture has lost some sense of that hope for a new dawn. We see this in the "Brexit” Vote where the majority voted to retreat into a smaller england (deliberately lower case, here), and we see it in the nationalist-retreat of "Trumpism" where we do better to wall off our country than to engage with the world. Unfortunately, retreat behind walls will never make us “Great Again”. Instead, to make our military power really work for us—and support us politically, economically, and culturally—we have to be in the world, arguing our case. It is time to revive the notion that "America" means that we become that bright beacon of hope that truly leads the world to a better future.
8
Thank You for this article! I have felt very alone with these same sentiments. I have not served in the military to see this first hand, but the crazy obsession this country has with violence has always baffled me. There is so much more to be positive about and amazing ways to move forward that do not include violence. I bought a copy of this country's constitution so I could hang it up in our home and remind us of those principles. I have often felt like even bringing this up is considered "unpatriotic". My love for this country is deep, but I cannot support endless violent war. We are so much better than that. Somewhere we lost the concept of defending ourselves when necessary and lost our way with believing that violence is our job. The white night syndrome is also in there somewhere.
29
"The real gap is between the fantasy of American heroism and the reality of what the American military does, between the myth of violence and the truth of war. The real gap is between our subconscious belief that righteous violence can redeem us, even ennoble us, and the chastening truth that violence debases and corrupts." Bravo and brilliant, Mr. Scranton. We (and by "we" I mean all people who believe violence "works") have the insane notion that once "we" kill "them" all will be well. I look forward to reading your books. Thank you.
22
This may be the most honest discussion of US military power ever published by the NY Times. Thank you, Roy Scranton! How refreshing to read someone in these pages questioning the "political utility of force," as military theorists call armed coercion! How refreshing to read a writer willing to point out the "bloody track of American history, from slavery to genocide to empire"! How encouraging, on the eve of July 4th, to hear this holiday called what it is -- a celebration of American violence! Where is the antiwar movement that we so desperately need?
308
We should demand returning to the Department of War for this Defense Department cabinet position
5
Brilliant explication of America's love affair with violence, Roy Scranton! Fit reading for Independence Day celebrations. Deeply moving, your words that America isn't a rebellion, but an ideal and a commitment, are a way of seeing hope in the midst of these terrible times. America has always celebrated violence, but not with firecrackers, roman candles, starry fireworks explosions, sparklers carried by children running barefoot among the fireflies on night-bedewed backyards and streets. America celebrates violence with guns and firearms and assault weapons used by other demented Americans and foreign terrorists to kill innocent people. Alas, the moated NRA castle - home to gun addicts, and gun-lobbyists and sellers - can't be destroyed, the second amendment to the Constitution cannot be nullified. When death by gun is hyped by a zealous Republican presidential candidate like Donald Trump, what hope is left? What ideals are left? This presumptive Republican Presidential candidate has said that teachers, good people bearing guns in Sandy Hook elementary school in Newtown, CT, or in the gay nightclub, Pulse, in Orlando, FL, could have prevented the mass shootings, the slaughter of innocents. As you say, Roy Scranton, we make our choices and our myths and show the world what informs our holy days.
55
Thank you, Mr. Scranton, for an honest portrayal of war, and for your faith in a better United States of America.
The non-heroic aspects of our wars are often buried by the myths. We have also had many bad Presidents. Lyndon B. Johnson and both Bushes come to mind.
The first Bush war with Iraq precipitated the first attack on the WTC in 1993. It has gone down hill from there.
We should give peace a chance.
[Submitted on July 3 at 7:47 am.]
The non-heroic aspects of our wars are often buried by the myths. We have also had many bad Presidents. Lyndon B. Johnson and both Bushes come to mind.
The first Bush war with Iraq precipitated the first attack on the WTC in 1993. It has gone down hill from there.
We should give peace a chance.
[Submitted on July 3 at 7:47 am.]
18
Very well-said, sir. Perhaps the most dangerous "political correctness" of our day is the taboo on questioning our military. Wrapped in the "support our troops" mantra, it stifles the questioning of our military action necessary to finding another way. Essays like this one are rare and precious.
229
Mr. Scranton writes a painful truth; one that has been painfully obvious since the war in Vietnam, and probably before. President Eisenhower warned about this as he left office.
As a psychotherapist I have worked with several young people who have served in the wars in the Middle East. They return extremely loyal to their comrades in arms, but often wth the realization that they have been used as pawns by America's economic powerhouses, especially the energy and weapons industries.
How much of our taxes go to pay for wars? And what have we received in return?
As a psychotherapist I have worked with several young people who have served in the wars in the Middle East. They return extremely loyal to their comrades in arms, but often wth the realization that they have been used as pawns by America's economic powerhouses, especially the energy and weapons industries.
How much of our taxes go to pay for wars? And what have we received in return?
175
I think you are on to something, Roy.
You list three constructive paths forward:
1 civil disagreement
2 honoring dissenters
3 building something.
These are desperately needed today in our country.
I would add:
4 recommitting to core Christian principles (peace, the golden rule)
5 personal responsibility, commitment, and accountability
I'm going to read your book. Thank you for this column.
You list three constructive paths forward:
1 civil disagreement
2 honoring dissenters
3 building something.
These are desperately needed today in our country.
I would add:
4 recommitting to core Christian principles (peace, the golden rule)
5 personal responsibility, commitment, and accountability
I'm going to read your book. Thank you for this column.
9
All except #4. Throughout history, more innocents have been killed in the name of religion than any other cause.
16
Leigh: Perhaps you are part of the problem.
You laud Christian principles. You should consider them 'human principles.' It's stressing the Cristian part that so often got us into these kinds of troubles.
You laud Christian principles. You should consider them 'human principles.' It's stressing the Cristian part that so often got us into these kinds of troubles.
22
Thank you Leigh, I can agree with all of these. I'm not a Christian myself, specifically because "American" Christianity seems to have strayed from those core beliefs, but I do believe in them. I do believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ, and recognize that some of those core beliefs are inherent in the teachings of many faiths, and part of the social contract that humans need to aspire to.
1
Beautifully said, Roy! Let's celebrate the good in human kind.
13
As an expatriate American and permanent resident in France, I am amazed at how forgiving much of the world has been over generations of unnecessary American wars.
Most Europeans I encounter ignore the reality of America's bloody history, including Iraq, and tenaciously cling to their fantasy of America as the great savior. For me, this cleansed memory lapse is a superb example of magical thinking!
Most Europeans I encounter ignore the reality of America's bloody history, including Iraq, and tenaciously cling to their fantasy of America as the great savior. For me, this cleansed memory lapse is a superb example of magical thinking!
23
This was powerfully affecting for me. I am twenty years older, but was a young man when Star Wars came out, and reinforced the myth that evil could be fought by the right set of (reluctant, always reluctant, in all the myths) heroes. This reinforced the real life battles of the civil rights movement that dominated my pre-teen years, where real progress was achieved, though we still have a long way to go. But that dream ended in violence (the assassination of Dr. King) as have many others--might does not make right.
How do we change the myth? This is where my despair comes in--certainly it is not just an American myth that heroism, violence, and true patriotism are cut from the same cloth. See Saddam Hussein, Idi Amin, Mao Tse-Tung. People who preach peace, non-violence, and/or love (Jesus, Gandhi, Dr. King, Yitzhak Rabin) are often murdered. What is it about humans? How do we change us, so we can change the myth?
Every 4th of July, I remember a bumper sticker i saw once and only once on a car (custom-made, I assume) in our Bicentennial year of 1976: In a red stripe, it said "Happy Birthday, America!"; in the white stripe, it said, "You ain't perfect,"; and in the a final blue stripe, it said, "but we're not finished yet." Perhaps we will not be finished until we change the myth, but that will likely require us to change humanity, which is a tall order.
How do we change the myth? This is where my despair comes in--certainly it is not just an American myth that heroism, violence, and true patriotism are cut from the same cloth. See Saddam Hussein, Idi Amin, Mao Tse-Tung. People who preach peace, non-violence, and/or love (Jesus, Gandhi, Dr. King, Yitzhak Rabin) are often murdered. What is it about humans? How do we change us, so we can change the myth?
Every 4th of July, I remember a bumper sticker i saw once and only once on a car (custom-made, I assume) in our Bicentennial year of 1976: In a red stripe, it said "Happy Birthday, America!"; in the white stripe, it said, "You ain't perfect,"; and in the a final blue stripe, it said, "but we're not finished yet." Perhaps we will not be finished until we change the myth, but that will likely require us to change humanity, which is a tall order.
14
I was touched by this piece. I hope the politicians that send our young men and women to war read this as well.
13
Profoundly important essay with ideas that need to be expressed and considered. Thank you, Mr. Scranton.
21
This article is an extremely powerful and intelligent call for Americans to beat their swords into plowshares…a call to peace first shouted out several thousands of years ago and still unheard, unheeded. America is not the only country with the Star Wars myth of redemption through violence. Indeed, I’m hard pressed to think of any country that at some point in its history has not been similarly deluded.
The stirring words of our Declaration of Independence were not a call for “civil disagreement” but rather a call to arms against a benign king slanderously described as a tyrant. Our venerable Constitution established a permanent federal navy and a standing state militia so that we would always be prepared to make war.
In our end is our beginning…violence as a means to some supposedly righteous end. But this is not a peculiarly American hypocrisy, but rather a very human one. Both Moses and Jesus smote the “unrighteous” and are venerated as holy men. Mohamed called for the slaughter of Unbelievers and is said to be a holy man. Both of this year’s presidential candidates support the use of our military might to promote our Elite’s interests. The only observable "progress" is that now we have for the first time a holy woman running for office.
The stirring words of our Declaration of Independence were not a call for “civil disagreement” but rather a call to arms against a benign king slanderously described as a tyrant. Our venerable Constitution established a permanent federal navy and a standing state militia so that we would always be prepared to make war.
In our end is our beginning…violence as a means to some supposedly righteous end. But this is not a peculiarly American hypocrisy, but rather a very human one. Both Moses and Jesus smote the “unrighteous” and are venerated as holy men. Mohamed called for the slaughter of Unbelievers and is said to be a holy man. Both of this year’s presidential candidates support the use of our military might to promote our Elite’s interests. The only observable "progress" is that now we have for the first time a holy woman running for office.
7
A marine died, a helicopter crashed on the side of a mountain in the middle of the Himalaya mountains after an earthquake. Small groups of ships arrive not at Subic Bay but along side the destruction caused by yet another wave or storm off the coast of the Philippines. We honor the passing of the author on the night who was saved by our army. The president most disparaged by our free Press dreamed of an America whose national interest demanded and fought for democracy in all countries and after the laughter passes even the Bush family hoped to succeed in rebuilding from the ruins of authoritarians. Democracy is not easy and my service defended the right of a family to own the gun which one child uses to take the life of a younger sibling as well as the right to our free speech to challenge the righteousness of obscene patriotism . We are responsible to the entire world even that nut from Russia who does not understand the strength of restraint. A single super power is like a baby learning to walk, things break and the direction is unknown. We will grow out of our exploiting stage and our navy will assure free trade and perhaps our special forces will train only the forces on democracy. It is those so willing to send us into futile was who are least likely to serve and who are responsible for any civilian military gap.
7
This is an extremely well thought out and well written essay and it has changed how I view the 4th of July in a profound way. Thank you for this meditation on violence and your call to ponder our founding ideals, as codified in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, rather than celebrate the violence we so often promulgate instead. They are ideals worth celebrating, worth our thoughtful allegiance, especially as they are under such severe ideological and religious assault not just abroad but--more's the pity--here at home.
360
My father was a member of Carlson's Raiders in WWII. He was stranded for some time on an island in the Pacific after watching his best friend killed. Once found and returned Stateside, he spent 10 months in the hospital recovering from rheumatic fever and a host of other maladies.
When I was in elementary school in the fifties, shortly after that "good war", a common theme was for kids brag about what their dads had done in the war. I knew he had served but my father refused to talk about it.
Once I was an adult he told me that those who romanticize war have never been there (at least not on the ground). He summed it up this way: "You come face-to-face with a (Japanese) kid your age. He didn't make the decisions; he's there fighting for his country just like you're fighting for yours. But if you don't kill him, he'll kill you".
Romantic fantasy indeed!
When I was in elementary school in the fifties, shortly after that "good war", a common theme was for kids brag about what their dads had done in the war. I knew he had served but my father refused to talk about it.
Once I was an adult he told me that those who romanticize war have never been there (at least not on the ground). He summed it up this way: "You come face-to-face with a (Japanese) kid your age. He didn't make the decisions; he's there fighting for his country just like you're fighting for yours. But if you don't kill him, he'll kill you".
Romantic fantasy indeed!
233
About 25 years ago I was at a party where this kid who was in Desert Storm was bragging about his exploits. After about 15 minutes of this, a Vietnam vet who had sat silently through the whole thing simply muttered "Wait till they shot back at you kid" and walked away.
48
Thank you for this.
107
A powerful evocation of the gritty reality behind one of our national myths. That myth, however, expresses a truth obscured by Mr. Scranton's justified disillusionment with our military adventures in the ME. Violence accompanied, and in fact ensured, the birth of the United States. Without the War for Independence, the ideals of the Declaration would have died aborning, and the principles of the Constitution would have had to await another time, and perhaps place, to see the light of day.
A second burst of military violence, unprecedented for its day, preserved the government that embodied those ideals and principles, while also destroying the institution of slavery, which had corrupted America's commitment to its core beliefs in freedom and equality. In the next century, finally, America had to mount the greatest military campaign in its history, in order to help destroy a global threat to democratic ideals, which by then had spread far beyond our borders.
We have also fought wars, in Mexico, the Philippines, and on our western frontier, that contradicted rather than affirmed our commitment to human rights. Surely, however, we can maintain our respect and admiration for the sacrifices that created this country and preserved its freedoms, while also condemning the actions of policymakers who wasted the lives of our soldiers and innocent foreigners in pursuit of imperial adventures.
We celebrate, not war, but sacrifice for a worthy cause.
A second burst of military violence, unprecedented for its day, preserved the government that embodied those ideals and principles, while also destroying the institution of slavery, which had corrupted America's commitment to its core beliefs in freedom and equality. In the next century, finally, America had to mount the greatest military campaign in its history, in order to help destroy a global threat to democratic ideals, which by then had spread far beyond our borders.
We have also fought wars, in Mexico, the Philippines, and on our western frontier, that contradicted rather than affirmed our commitment to human rights. Surely, however, we can maintain our respect and admiration for the sacrifices that created this country and preserved its freedoms, while also condemning the actions of policymakers who wasted the lives of our soldiers and innocent foreigners in pursuit of imperial adventures.
We celebrate, not war, but sacrifice for a worthy cause.
10
yes, we are the storm troopers. Funny how that works, eh?
I like this especially: Instead of celebrating American violence, we might celebrate our Declaration of Independence and Constitution, and the ideals those documents invoke of an educated citizenry deciding its fate not through war but through civil disagreement. Instead of honoring our troops, whose chief virtues are obedience and aggressiveness, we could honor our great dissenters and conscientious objectors. And instead of blowing things up, maybe we could try building something.
I like this especially: Instead of celebrating American violence, we might celebrate our Declaration of Independence and Constitution, and the ideals those documents invoke of an educated citizenry deciding its fate not through war but through civil disagreement. Instead of honoring our troops, whose chief virtues are obedience and aggressiveness, we could honor our great dissenters and conscientious objectors. And instead of blowing things up, maybe we could try building something.
101
The distinction Mr. Scranton is discussing is the difference between military and militarist. The military carry out missions. Militarists believe that virtue resides in war and combat.
33
I think Mr. Scranton was hinting at why we are so quick and willing to join the military.
5
Would that our representatives in Congress would read and absorb these sentiments. And act for peace rather than for the bomb makers.
85
No chance of this being slightly noticed during the celebratory pageantry that discourages introspection ... just like a decorated tree or an egg hunt overtakes any sense of spirituality. I cried while reading this column ... a reaction which will, of course, be derided.
11
The new and most intelligent voice for reasoned liberalism.
73
Congratulations Mr. Scranton. You nailed it! During the Vietnam war, what I thought of as the headiest statement circulated among those of us in the anti-war movement was, 'What if they gave a war & nobody came! It would be wonderful, but I won't hold my breath.
15
This is why Harrison Ford's character in "Apocalypse Now " is named Lucas: it was a deliberate indictment of the complicity of George Lucas in a myth-making machine that trades in absolute good and absolute evil. The world does not work that way. But to a large portion of the US, it does.
Walter Benjamin said it best: all attempts to aestheticize politics have one result: war.
Walter Benjamin said it best: all attempts to aestheticize politics have one result: war.
40
With all due respect, I think you're stretching here. As a matter of fact, Coppola, Lucas and John Milius were close friends at the time (and they probably still are). At one point during the tumultuous production of Apocalypse Now, Lucas was even supposed to direct it. So I'm pretty sure that the name of Ford's character is a nod to a good friend rather than an indictment. On the broader topic, I'd have to say that I think that Star Wars is unjustly being singled out here. Yes, the initial setup is black and white, and there is a 'justified' war going on. But there are also pacifist messages ('Wars not make one great' etc.) and the entire point of Luke's arc is that he CAN'T redeem his father through violence, he redeems him through nonviolence instead. That's at least part of the message of the original trilogy. Furthermore, Star Wars is loved around the globe, yet it doesn't seem to be triggering militarism anywhere else. If Americans really derive their image of war from Star Wars, then I think that points to other culprits: a) news media coverage (or lack thereof) and b) the failure of the education system in dealing with subjects like the crimes against Native Americans, the brutality of the Civil War, war crimes in Vietnam, etc. There are other movies that I find waaaay more problematic when it comes to the portrayal of war, for instance the Iraq scenes in 'American Sniper': No context, no civilian casualties, just shooting 'bad guys'.
4
And we show, by the movies we make and watch, how to deal with the world. The problem with letting my grandchildren watch some sports on television is that they see horrendous violence in the movie trailers.
15
"FOR a long time after I came home from the war, fireworks made me jumpy ... I’d crack another beer and try to laugh it off even as the friends I was with turned into ghosts of the soldiers I once knew."
What a trauma hero!
What a trauma hero!
1
As Walter Murch (esteemed filmmaker and longtime associate of George Lucas) explains in his book 'The Conversations', Lucas really wanted to make a film about Vietnam, but no one in Hollywood would finance it. So he took his ideas and set them in a the fictional world of Star Wars where, for Lucas, the Evil Empire represented the United States and Luke and company stood for the Viet Cong. Think about it ......
1
As a Marine, I would give my life to defend Roy Scranton's right to express his views freely as he has in this op-ed.
That said, never have I read from another veteran of the Iraq war such piffle, dark cynicism, discreditable characterizations of soldiers and Marines, and with no creative effort in re-packaging of the Left's go-to narrative since the Vietnam Era. This is just poppycock.
He was driving a course to some good points, then his inner madman grab the steering wheel and swerved left over a cliff.
He is spot-on to highlight the disconnect that exists between those of us who have served forward in combat - - and the citizenry in the rear with the gear watching CNN and thinking war-porn videos are just COOL... The first person who will tell you that violence, use of force, and war should be a very very last resort is... a combat veteran. Period. End of story.
If most of our citizens have no risk of or experience in service and war, they the U.S. Military will, as it has, just seem like one more, nifty tools in the political toolbox. It's not. I know that, and Roy, have another beer, you do to.
Semper Fi.
That said, never have I read from another veteran of the Iraq war such piffle, dark cynicism, discreditable characterizations of soldiers and Marines, and with no creative effort in re-packaging of the Left's go-to narrative since the Vietnam Era. This is just poppycock.
He was driving a course to some good points, then his inner madman grab the steering wheel and swerved left over a cliff.
He is spot-on to highlight the disconnect that exists between those of us who have served forward in combat - - and the citizenry in the rear with the gear watching CNN and thinking war-porn videos are just COOL... The first person who will tell you that violence, use of force, and war should be a very very last resort is... a combat veteran. Period. End of story.
If most of our citizens have no risk of or experience in service and war, they the U.S. Military will, as it has, just seem like one more, nifty tools in the political toolbox. It's not. I know that, and Roy, have another beer, you do to.
Semper Fi.
10
Sad to say, most veterans I know think of war as the first resort.
10
Well, there are "veterans" and there are "combat veterans" - - serving in the military can take different forms, and service members have different experiences based on what is going on in world events.
So perhaps, the veterans you know were in uniform but not under hostile fire or in a combat area, eh? I have served over three decades in the US Marines from the Cold War, Gulf War to Iraq. The Marines are not exactly a book-club or comprised of the faint-hearted; but I can tell you that 98% of the combat veterans I know very much are slow to pull the war-trigger. Not out of fear, but out of experience.
Don't unleash the dogs of war and think you completely, technocratically control events, unintended consequences, fog of war, errors, sins and omissions, or when it ends.
Being a veterans is not the same, neither are better or lesser, as being a combat-veteran. Happy 4th, Ooh-rah! SF
So perhaps, the veterans you know were in uniform but not under hostile fire or in a combat area, eh? I have served over three decades in the US Marines from the Cold War, Gulf War to Iraq. The Marines are not exactly a book-club or comprised of the faint-hearted; but I can tell you that 98% of the combat veterans I know very much are slow to pull the war-trigger. Not out of fear, but out of experience.
Don't unleash the dogs of war and think you completely, technocratically control events, unintended consequences, fog of war, errors, sins and omissions, or when it ends.
Being a veterans is not the same, neither are better or lesser, as being a combat-veteran. Happy 4th, Ooh-rah! SF
16
The fact is there are no easy answers. We should be much less cavalier about how we deploy our troops, but at the same time it is foolish to believe that "dissenting" to a jihadist that wants to blow up an airport gets you nowhere, and sometimes there are no honorable sides in a dispute. You can then choose to withdraw from the world, but that defeats your own message.
Maybe the most we can do is acknowledge that we are all flawed, that there are costs to everything we do. We are neither Luke Skywalker nor Darth Vader. More like a Han Solo that has made some poor choices in some terrible situations and have to live with them as best as we can.