Both Djokovic and Serena are historical figures not for what they have accomplished on court but where they came from. Both these incredible athletes have quashed all their critic and continue the march deeper into history. Serena will surpass Graff sooner or later tho she will not accomplish the calendar slam but she does have the Serena slam which includes holding all major titles and and Olympic gold. Twice! Djokovic had to come out of the shadows of tennis's golden boys Federer and Rafa and he did this by working incredibly hard and winning against them as no other tennis player. He has winning records against both. Djokovic is the only Champion out of the big 4 or 5 if you include Wawrinka to hold all major titles simultaneously. No male player has accomplished this since 1969. Djokovic's game in under appreciated by fans of Federer and Rafa and this is completely unfair to arguably the greatest tennis player in history. I am hoping that Djokovic completes the golden slam and makes more history.
1
"She has not been the same irresistible force since that loss to Vinci in September, and Wimbledon is full of ghosts as well as big victories for her."
Ambition is at the root of all suffering and failure. To perform without lust for results is the only way to be safe from disaster.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
Ambition is at the root of all suffering and failure. To perform without lust for results is the only way to be safe from disaster.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
I remember all of this talk last year about Serena...everything was Serena ad nauseum. I thought I was watching the Serena Channel instead of the Tennis Channel last year. The press should lay off her and stop trying to create the news. And as far as Djokovic, he's an excellent player but eventually he'll be brought back down to earth like all of the greats before him. I'm hoping for an upset on the men's side - possibly Thiem or Raonic. And don't forget about Andy Murray. Enjoy Wimbledon!
2
Win or lose for these marvelous champions, I just want to see some excellent tennis!
3
It's too bad that sports' viewers and prognosticators feel it necessary to throw "greatest" into sports' jargon. All facets of sports are tied to too many variables: equipment, age, techniques, the list is long.
Federer in his time and now we have Djok. Wait a couple of years and the next "best ever" player will appear.
Federer in his time and now we have Djok. Wait a couple of years and the next "best ever" player will appear.
1
Serena is arguably the best female player, however the G.O.A. T. is Martina Navratilova. When you are in that stratosphere of winning numerous Grand Slam singles titles it's not necessarily the player who has the most being the best. Let me put it in perspective for most of these novice commenters on here. While Martina was winning 18 GS single titles she was also winning 31 GS doubles title and 10 GS mixed doubles titles - all Career Grand Slam titles!
Need I say more?
Need I say more?
3
I agree, same with McEnroe, great doubles and singles player.
Too bad they're both unlikable.
2
I like them both very much.
1
All props to Serena, but I have enjoyed the runs by Pennetta, Kerber, and Muguruza in the last 3 slams. Pennetta was "light as a feather"and deadly accurate, Kerber found the craziest angles and her serve became a weapon, and Muguruza was, as Judy Murray quipped, "muguruthless" in her aggressive game and massive strokes (not to mention a funky match point lob) in Paris. I wish the fans, including the "Serena is Queen" crowd, could just let the action play out match after match and appreciate the results and the wonderful, individual sport tennis is. Personally, I am hoping for a Keys or Radwanska breakthrough, just to add another new big name to the mix.
7
I don't know what it is, but I don't particularly have much affection for Nole. I definitely have affection for Rafa, Fed, Murray, Wawrinka, Nishikori. I have been watching tennis since the 70's and even have affection for McEnroe, definitely Borg. Probably the most for Rafa because of his dogged determination to come back from injury. I definitely am in awe of what Djokovic can do. I am amazed by his range and flexibility, his ability to go from defense to offense in a nanosecond. So if he wins a grand slam, I will accept it, but not celebrate long. I don't know if what I am saying is just about me, or if the sentiments are more widely shared.
I like Serena and wish her well, but somehow I am more drawn to Venus and her story of comeback. It's funny how these things are.
I like Serena and wish her well, but somehow I am more drawn to Venus and her story of comeback. It's funny how these things are.
5
Rafa is a 1st class mental case. Can't bear to watch him play. Watching Serena, I am reminded of Mike Tyson.
1
Wow, such a positive attitude toward others. I wonder who or what you remind people of.
Djokovic, in spite of his unappealing tennis style, is a true #1 at the present time. There was a time when he was a first-class jerk, but since about 2013 he has been behaving like a gentleman. He doesn't have either Rafa's of Federer's talent(s), but he has performed tremendously against top-level competition.
In sharp contrast, Serena Williams is #1 among women only on paper. Her despicable behavior over the years, in fact since 2003 when her winning streak was snapped by Henin, both in Charleston and at Roland Garros, is testament to lack of class, and will be part and parcel of her legacy. Tying or surpassing Graf's Slam-winning record will not make her GOAT (i.e., best woman player ever). There is much more to tennis greatness than scavenging Slams in a weak-playing era.
In sharp contrast, Serena Williams is #1 among women only on paper. Her despicable behavior over the years, in fact since 2003 when her winning streak was snapped by Henin, both in Charleston and at Roland Garros, is testament to lack of class, and will be part and parcel of her legacy. Tying or surpassing Graf's Slam-winning record will not make her GOAT (i.e., best woman player ever). There is much more to tennis greatness than scavenging Slams in a weak-playing era.
5
Serena Williams is #1 among women only on paper. Yes just like those peskie valedictorians who are valedictorians only on paper because they have the greatest Grade Point Average.
On the other hand the definition of a true valedictorian is the a student, who scored the Greatest Point Average and recognized as the true #1 in tennis is also based on greatest points accumulated. Tournaments are graded based on a computer evaluation of the standard of participants competing in the previous year's tournament. Points are awarded for singles,doubles and mixed doubles play.
The idea of numbers determining outcomes is indeed not recognized by everyone. President Obama is said to be president in 2008 just because 69,498,516 people voted for him which was about 10,000,000 more than those who voted for McCain and president in 2012 just because 65,915,79 voted for Obama which was close to 6,000,000 those voting for Romney. Yet some fools like Trump still do not get it that the number of votes is the reason that Obama is our president.
The way of electing presidents is based on the US Constitution while the way of recognizing true number one in tennis is based on rules established by the Association of Tennis Professionals' (ATP) merit-based method for determining rankings in tennis.
On the other hand the definition of a true valedictorian is the a student, who scored the Greatest Point Average and recognized as the true #1 in tennis is also based on greatest points accumulated. Tournaments are graded based on a computer evaluation of the standard of participants competing in the previous year's tournament. Points are awarded for singles,doubles and mixed doubles play.
The idea of numbers determining outcomes is indeed not recognized by everyone. President Obama is said to be president in 2008 just because 69,498,516 people voted for him which was about 10,000,000 more than those who voted for McCain and president in 2012 just because 65,915,79 voted for Obama which was close to 6,000,000 those voting for Romney. Yet some fools like Trump still do not get it that the number of votes is the reason that Obama is our president.
The way of electing presidents is based on the US Constitution while the way of recognizing true number one in tennis is based on rules established by the Association of Tennis Professionals' (ATP) merit-based method for determining rankings in tennis.
4
...jerk? ...only on paper? OK. Everyone has a right to an opinion. But, you are missing two of the most exceptional athletes to ever walk this planet. And, they are competing now. Sorry you're missing it.
11
I am watching Djokovic since he's is playing in highly competitive matches. I said the he behaved like a jerk before 2013. These days he is a class act. The only problem is that while I find his tennis very effective, it is nowhere as exciting as Rafa's or Murray's for that matter. In short, he has the goods, but not the magic.
As for Serena she's won only one tournament over the last 9 months. Not quite the dominant or #1 player,
As for Serena she's won only one tournament over the last 9 months. Not quite the dominant or #1 player,
1
Some people hit balls, some people kick balls, some throw them, and gosh do we pay them a lot of money.
11
And there are some who make lots of money ruining perfectly productive companies by putting them out of business like Romney did or by bankrupting casinos like Trump famously did and in the process we pay them even more money than those entertaining us playing with balls.
And then there are people who make lots and lots of money from thousands of electronic transactions per second using software that siphon money from the pensions of the wealth creating labor.
The people making money with balls earn it the old fashioned way with personal labor sweating profusely.
And then there are people who make lots and lots of money from thousands of electronic transactions per second using software that siphon money from the pensions of the wealth creating labor.
The people making money with balls earn it the old fashioned way with personal labor sweating profusely.
13
They earn it trough personal labor unlike market manipulators AKA crooks.
9
Since January 1 being the first day of the year is a random choice, I see no rational reason for insisting on a "calendar year" Grand Slam.
5
The tennis season lasts from January to November. That's why a calendar-year Grand Slam is special, and in fact the true Grand Slam. It is achieved during one tennis season.
Only Laver has won it TWICE. No other man or woman have been able to achieve that.
Graf has won a true Grand Slam in 1988. Serena would have to win all four Slams next year to match that. I strongly doubt that at her age she can do such a thing. She's barely playing and has won only one tournament, not a Slam, since she was outplayed by Vinci at last year's US Open.
Only Laver has won it TWICE. No other man or woman have been able to achieve that.
Graf has won a true Grand Slam in 1988. Serena would have to win all four Slams next year to match that. I strongly doubt that at her age she can do such a thing. She's barely playing and has won only one tournament, not a Slam, since she was outplayed by Vinci at last year's US Open.
4
Djokovic is a legend already, like Laver, Sampras, Borg, Nadal Federer, etc. A true great! And he is an amazing being off the court. Just the way he speaks is pretty deep and passionate. He loves what he does, loves improving - be it tennis, languages, personality. He is passionate about a lot of things. I am a few years older than the guy, but I am in a lot of aspects using him as a role model. Respect!
BTW, this piece is very very good about Nole and what he is all about. I recommend it strongly :
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/its-complicated-being-novak-djokovic-2...
BTW, this piece is very very good about Nole and what he is all about. I recommend it strongly :
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/its-complicated-being-novak-djokovic-2...
13
I disagree that Novak is already a legend. Glad that someone sees him as a role model but many others do not.
He has a lot more to do off and on the court before he is a legend.
He has a lot more to do off and on the court before he is a legend.
1
I was present at our semi-final loss last year---I could see from her warm-ups and play that her heart and mind was just not in the game. She is, by far, the greatest talent ever in the game, but, as with all sports, the mind plays a great roll in the final score. Now, how you work with the mind, well, that, is still a great mystery.
7
it's good that clarey mentioned that the true grand slam is winning all four in the same calendar year. after djokovic won the French open many commenters seemed confused or ignorant of what the grand slam was. laver won it twice; people equated winning four in a row in two different years as the same thing. it is a great feat, but it's not a grand slam. after saying that, djokovic seems a pretty good bet to do it this year......
6
For whatever reason, Eastern European players get a raw deal from western audiences. Martina was never loved, although she was a lesbian which was too much for the people of her time. Lendl was hated. Now, Djoker is never appreciated. Last year USO final was particularly disgraceful, where he was booed throughout the final, for no fault of his own. Shame on the New York crowd. But while Federer benefited by having to face lesser weights like Roddick, Hewitt, and others like Baghdatis and Gonzalez and others in many of his slam was, and Nadal was for the most part a one slam wonder, Djoker had to go through mostly the big 4 to win every one of his slams and his level of play has simply been astonishing.
24
Don't forget how unpopular Sampras was. Nobody was sorry to see him go.
3
"Nadal was for the most part a one slam wonder"
Make that a 14-Slam wonder !
Also Rafa is the only player ever to have won 3 consecutive Slams on 3 different surfaces. Djoker, who does not have a tenth of Rafa's talent, has a lot more to achieve to match Rafa's record.
Make that a 14-Slam wonder !
Also Rafa is the only player ever to have won 3 consecutive Slams on 3 different surfaces. Djoker, who does not have a tenth of Rafa's talent, has a lot more to achieve to match Rafa's record.
3
1 Slam Wonder, as in mostly French Slams. Rafa's record at the others doesn't even compare to Djoko who has less slams than him let alone Fed.
"Also Rafa is the only player ever to have won 3 consecutive Slams on 3 different surfaces."
This is a joke, right? Djoko just won FOUR consecutive slams on 3 different surfaces. I'm pretty sure that trumps rafa....
Djoko has already surpassed most of Rafa's records - 2 more slams and he'll be the greater player for sure.
But we'll give the king of clay his due - on that ONE surface, he has no equal....
"Also Rafa is the only player ever to have won 3 consecutive Slams on 3 different surfaces."
This is a joke, right? Djoko just won FOUR consecutive slams on 3 different surfaces. I'm pretty sure that trumps rafa....
Djoko has already surpassed most of Rafa's records - 2 more slams and he'll be the greater player for sure.
But we'll give the king of clay his due - on that ONE surface, he has no equal....
1
I don't know why the Brits still cling onto their Henman hill, given Henman accomplished zilch while Murray won both W and Olympics at the All England courts.
But then again, Murray is Scottish, so Brits become English and he becomes Scottish when he loses. When he wins, they are all Brits, kumbaya
But then again, Murray is Scottish, so Brits become English and he becomes Scottish when he loses. When he wins, they are all Brits, kumbaya
1
It's been Murray's mound for some time now.
Oh boy, since Serena's name is mentioned here, watch out for a whole bunch of Sanders and Trump supporters lacerating Serena using every excuse in the book (while carefully camouflaging their racial hatred) and bemoaning and wishing that their Russian heroine Maria Sharapova was back in the fray and that her drug test was unfair.
6
So if you dare to criticize Serena, you're a racist. And if you support either Trump or Sanders, you're a racist. Better check under your bed; there are probably racists hiding there too.
3
You mix up cause and effect.
You are not a racist for trashing Serena with any and all excuses, or for supporting Trump/Sanders.
It is that most people supporting Sanders/Trump seem to be massive bigots, and it is most often the same people dissing on Serena for no reason, accusing her of doping, while they celebrate a real dopist Russian Maria
You are not a racist for trashing Serena with any and all excuses, or for supporting Trump/Sanders.
It is that most people supporting Sanders/Trump seem to be massive bigots, and it is most often the same people dissing on Serena for no reason, accusing her of doping, while they celebrate a real dopist Russian Maria
I would not count Serena out as the best female player on the basis of her reaching, but losing 2 finals. She could esily be the greatest female player of all time--and imagine her record if she had not had to play her sister so often in major tournaments, producing physical and emotional exhaustion. Compare that to Steffi Graf not having a near equal to beat after a deranged Graf fan ruined Monica Seles' career.
The fascination with the Grand Slam reflects, in substantial part, the oddity that tennis is the only major sport where the playing surface has such a prominent role--for example, Sampras being much weaker on clay and Nadal much stronger. Djokovic is a great, great player, but it seems that a new "best male player of all time" is crowned every few years--Sampras then Federer then Nadal now Djokovic.
The fascination with the Grand Slam reflects, in substantial part, the oddity that tennis is the only major sport where the playing surface has such a prominent role--for example, Sampras being much weaker on clay and Nadal much stronger. Djokovic is a great, great player, but it seems that a new "best male player of all time" is crowned every few years--Sampras then Federer then Nadal now Djokovic.
5
When Williams wins I'll believe it. But I think Graf had more difficult opponents.
2
Sure. You believe it. After Seles turned 16, she won 7 of the 8 slams she participated in. That's right. And the one slam Graf won, (and she was in her prime then while Seles was still a teenager btw) was a Wimbledon final where Seles was targeted for her grunting, deliberately kept total silence and her play was totally messed up.
If not for her fan Parche, Grafs career was over. She would ended on par with some middling figures and far below Billie Jean, never mind Evert and Martina.
If not for her fan Parche, Grafs career was over. She would ended on par with some middling figures and far below Billie Jean, never mind Evert and Martina.
2
Federer, too, hold all four major singles titles.
4
That's called a career Grand Slam.
Federer never won four slams in a row -- which Djokovic has done since Wimbledon 2015.
In my mind, there is no difference between winning 4 slams in the same calendar year and winning all 4 in a row.
Federer never won four slams in a row -- which Djokovic has done since Wimbledon 2015.
In my mind, there is no difference between winning 4 slams in the same calendar year and winning all 4 in a row.
6
So does Andre Agassi. The press makes it sound like there hasn't been a grand slam winner since 1969. Agasi was the fifth man to win all four titles. Maybe they mean winning all four in the same year, which Djokovic hasn't done as yet.
I know THAT, A.
However, that is not what Christopher Clarey, the author of the article, wrote.
Quoting him verbatim, "He’s the first man to hold all four major titles since Rod Laver in 1969 . . . "
mjdrage and I are correct.
However, that is not what Christopher Clarey, the author of the article, wrote.
Quoting him verbatim, "He’s the first man to hold all four major titles since Rod Laver in 1969 . . . "
mjdrage and I are correct.
While Djokovic's record is undeniable- his dominance astonishing - it seems too easy to use this as a basis to declare him the greatest.
His movement & stroke mechanics are extraordinary- as well as his confidence. But he has an unremarkable forward game, overhead and tactical creativity. In fact, variety is not his strength. Meanwhile- the field has weakened and he enjoys a greater opportunity to intimidate.
Maybe in a year Thiem, Kyrgios, Coric, Zverev or fritz will play an amazing match and start Nole's expectable decline. And the era will turn over again.
For now- Nole deserves much appreciation, but until he behaves like a likable champion during play (vs a bitter sour edge guy)- he may share Drucker saw as his similarity to Lendl--respect without fervent adoration.
His movement & stroke mechanics are extraordinary- as well as his confidence. But he has an unremarkable forward game, overhead and tactical creativity. In fact, variety is not his strength. Meanwhile- the field has weakened and he enjoys a greater opportunity to intimidate.
Maybe in a year Thiem, Kyrgios, Coric, Zverev or fritz will play an amazing match and start Nole's expectable decline. And the era will turn over again.
For now- Nole deserves much appreciation, but until he behaves like a likable champion during play (vs a bitter sour edge guy)- he may share Drucker saw as his similarity to Lendl--respect without fervent adoration.
4
You sound like one of the NYC spectators at the Open last year I referenced above. Djoko is plenty likable. He is the only one who applauds opponent winners during a match. He has a tremendous sense of humor as well, which he had to suppress due to the PC age we live in. Always gives credit to opponents. As opposed to Federer who belittled both Rafa (called him one dimensional several times) and Novak multiple times, wore the sneakers with 14 on them even before he won the W final against Roddick, and generally preens around like some peacock. Federer never had to face the quality of opponents Novak had to, in his slam wins. And he has a losing record H2H vs both Rafa (10-24) and now Novak. He is not even the best of his own time but the best of all time? Novak on the other hand is now leading all his personal H2H vs Rafa, Roger and Murray.
22
Wow, it must be embarrassing to display petty....I am sure you can't control it. I am sure Nole has been handing it to one of your guys out there. But keep this in mind: Nole is writing history, and history will remember him. But you, and the likes of you, people who discredit a human being for beeing just that - human - history will forget your bunch. And guess what - the records will speak for them-self.
Go Nole, you are a great champion, a person continuously working on improving your game and yourself. I wish you achieve anything you imagine in your head!
Go Nole, you are a great champion, a person continuously working on improving your game and yourself. I wish you achieve anything you imagine in your head!
13
"(Djokovic's) movement & stroke mechanics are extraordinary- as well as his confidence. But he has an unremarkable forward game, overhead and tactical creativity. In fact, variety is not his strength"
Excellently put ! Djokovic plays like a well-oiled robot. No flair or creativity !
Excellently put ! Djokovic plays like a well-oiled robot. No flair or creativity !
2