13 stands for MS-13 or Mara Salvatrucha, a street gang founded in LA. Perhaps some may want to factor that into their thinking on why we bear no responsibility for violence in Central America.
40
The content is important, but there is a serious disconnect in the newspaper headlines. Let's kick Obama while he is down. Meanwhile, maybe we could get somebody to write some statistics on how selective journalism has contributed to the circus mentality of the everyday American mind.
51
I hate to say this, but past American leaders would have sent our military south to deal with the problems that result in tens of thousands of terrorized foreigners fleeing across our border for safety. Why? Because past American leaders took an "oath of office".
23
Ah, Mr. Kristof, I feel your pain, and that of the young victims of gang violence in Central America. I do, and I wish there was something, anything, we could do to help. But how? Given the fact that rampant xenophobia exists in our country today (led by Trump), the monetary costs of your suggestions, and the fact that most Americans, if at all aware of the issues faced by these young refugees, are themselves "disengaged", how exactly can the President intervene? Would it not be more advantageous for private philanthropic groups to become involved in the process? Couldn't you, with your platform here at the NY Times, appeal to the Gates Foundation, the Open Society Foundation, the Ford Foundation and others to target this vulnerable group, working to fund safe havens for these children who have left their home countries in fear of their lives?
70
Et tu Nicholas? Tell me it isn't so!
Are NYT op-ed writers all moving to controversial click bait now? This is becoming an increasingly disturbing trend in a venue one might imagine need not stoop to cheesy pandering for more readership with ire-inducing headlines such as this one.
It's totally unfair and wrongheaded to hang this human disaster on Obama. As compelling as these stories of refugees are, they are the direct consequence of a infamously failed "war on drugs" that no one seems inclined to end. The price of drugs is kept high and profitable to criminals because they are illegal and dangerous to transport and sell. Enter gangs and gang hegemony—over innocent farmers and their extended families, local and regional leaders, law "enforcemnet", et al. Brutality, rape, murder, extortion, kidnappings—the whole panoply of crime is an outcome of our deluded, costly and ultimately futile attempt to make "war" on drugs.
Are NYT op-ed writers all moving to controversial click bait now? This is becoming an increasingly disturbing trend in a venue one might imagine need not stoop to cheesy pandering for more readership with ire-inducing headlines such as this one.
It's totally unfair and wrongheaded to hang this human disaster on Obama. As compelling as these stories of refugees are, they are the direct consequence of a infamously failed "war on drugs" that no one seems inclined to end. The price of drugs is kept high and profitable to criminals because they are illegal and dangerous to transport and sell. Enter gangs and gang hegemony—over innocent farmers and their extended families, local and regional leaders, law "enforcemnet", et al. Brutality, rape, murder, extortion, kidnappings—the whole panoply of crime is an outcome of our deluded, costly and ultimately futile attempt to make "war" on drugs.
100
Kristof's "Blood on Obama's hands" opinion piece would have you believe Obama is to blame for the Central American refugee crisis. It's fascinating how easy it is for progressives to advocate liberal policies that open our borders to the worlds unfortunate refugees. Easier when your job isn't threatened. Easier to occupy the high ground on immigration issues if you're in a union or work as a teacher, federal, state or corporate employee. Easier because these occupations are "protected" because they Require proof of citizenship. Easier to be pro immigration if the end result is cheaper landscaping, home building, house cleaning and food services. These are the "unprotected" jobs. So easy to be liberal and pro immigration if you turn your back on the working poor in America. So easy.
76
When there are 63 million displaced people in the world our country cannot help them all. What we can do is promote policies that bring stability so people do not have to flee their own countries.
76
I for one would favor moving all Pakistani, Afghan and Indian women to the US to protect them from acid attacks and other violence. Oh, yes, all the Rohinga and any other persecuted group should be admitted, too. But, first and foremost, I'd like to this country commit itself to medical care which doesn't financially devastate its citizens. So many problems from which to chose.
37
Whoa! I read every comment. Powerful and inspirational.
9
Who cares for the children? The kids coming in need homes, not just shelter. What is the plan to house, feed, and educate them...not to mention provide health care?
We, the People have not built a nation on social welfare; our own poor struggle for the basic necessities. Our middle class is incredibly strapped. Are you asking Donald to build orphanages for this kids? Will you open adoption agencies to find suitable homes? How is the influx to be managed.
Blaming President Obama is like blaming the moon for global warming. Try looking at the root cause. Its bigger than just a single policy; it's about how this country abuses other nations. Historically, that's called colonialism and that's exactly what We, the People have done, wittingly or unwittingly. Our do-nothing Congress has blocked every conceivable measure to manage immigration.
Yes, those kids and those refugees need help, just as the Syrians and the Kurds, and the Yazidis do. Unless you think refugee camps are okay, there had better be a plan in place to welcome and absorb them. Talk to HIAS. They can tell you what it takes because they've been doing it for more than 100 years.
"Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses...." because we have a plan on what to do. But bringing increasing numbers of refugees in _without_ a long term absorption plan in place is folly. Dangerous folly.
Put a plan together first. Then, open the doors.
http://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
We, the People have not built a nation on social welfare; our own poor struggle for the basic necessities. Our middle class is incredibly strapped. Are you asking Donald to build orphanages for this kids? Will you open adoption agencies to find suitable homes? How is the influx to be managed.
Blaming President Obama is like blaming the moon for global warming. Try looking at the root cause. Its bigger than just a single policy; it's about how this country abuses other nations. Historically, that's called colonialism and that's exactly what We, the People have done, wittingly or unwittingly. Our do-nothing Congress has blocked every conceivable measure to manage immigration.
Yes, those kids and those refugees need help, just as the Syrians and the Kurds, and the Yazidis do. Unless you think refugee camps are okay, there had better be a plan in place to welcome and absorb them. Talk to HIAS. They can tell you what it takes because they've been doing it for more than 100 years.
"Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses...." because we have a plan on what to do. But bringing increasing numbers of refugees in _without_ a long term absorption plan in place is folly. Dangerous folly.
Put a plan together first. Then, open the doors.
http://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
38
And so what about migrants from the Middle East taking the same migrant trails? If the Europeans suffered terror attacks as a result of such migration, what of the fact that, according to new academic research, thousands are now headed to the U.S. Southwest Border alongside these Central Americans? Read in: https://www.hsaj.org/articles/10568
10
Your lead in words sound like Obama is ringing in the death knell for these unfortunate kids. The situation is not so straight-forward as you suggest. It's very easy to say all the kids should be allowed in. But who will be responsible for them once they are in Mexico or the US? Will they become State charges and hope foster homes and adoptive parents will be found for them? Sorry, Mr. Kristof, you may have a kind heart but reality intrudes. A better way would be destroy these cartels so that these kids are not put in a perilous situation because these drug cartels are like the murderous ISIS on our southern border.
50
What an overblown issue. Does this man have that concern for Americans like me whose lives and jobs were hurt by the flood of illegals. You know some of us were not to lazy for the hard work, we just wanted to be paid a living wage.
62
7 or 8 billion people in the world. Many of them living in poverty and or war torn places. One feels sorry for them. But the answer is not bring them to the US. Kristof did'n't you learn anything from the Brexit vote?
61
US taxpayers can ill-afford to solve all the world's woes, take in every refugee, save every endangered salamander. The Brexit vote was the shot heard round the world. The US is plagued by socioeconomic problems; charity starts at home. Americans are murdered near my house on a regular basis and just last night my wife called the police when she heard gunshots at 2 am.. My suggestion is to let people fight their own battles, clean up their own countries, and withhold economic aid to countries unwilling to improve themselves.
40
Yet again another sob story. NO I don't want these children in the US- But I think we should do more to clean up the countries they live in - but they must realize that they have a country and they need to stay put.
Another alternative is to build a detention center in Mexico where the people can stay until their country is safe to return to. But I don't want them in the US where they can claim asylum and we can never get rid of them. Put this detention center on their country border where they can flee and stay until they can return to their own country. The US should pay for the center - which will be cheaper than having the child in this country.
But no matter what it takes, don't let them into America. We have too many illegal aliens as it is or TPS people that never return.
Another alternative is to build a detention center in Mexico where the people can stay until their country is safe to return to. But I don't want them in the US where they can claim asylum and we can never get rid of them. Put this detention center on their country border where they can flee and stay until they can return to their own country. The US should pay for the center - which will be cheaper than having the child in this country.
But no matter what it takes, don't let them into America. We have too many illegal aliens as it is or TPS people that never return.
29
First, my apologies to the moderators for somehow accidentally submitting the same comment twice. Now, Mr. Kristof, I had hoped that the headline was an accident and that you hadn't meant to be this inflammatory; that the headline was a mistake and you didn't mean to be this harsh and nonsensical. But nope. I see on Twitter you have posted multiple tweets promoting this story with the words: "Every journalist has stories he or she particularly cares about. For me, this is one." and have copied the headline in one of your tweets.
Well, OK then. Doubling-down even when people are asking that you consider other POVs. That's your right - and your privilege - but all I can say is, good luck with that.
Well, OK then. Doubling-down even when people are asking that you consider other POVs. That's your right - and your privilege - but all I can say is, good luck with that.
30
Sad sacks always need someone to blame. And it's Obama's fault that drugs are a multi-billion dollar industry in America? It's Obama's fault that the borders were left open for a generation to help provide cheap labor? Will Nick buy produce and meats that have not been handled by undocumented labor? Will he instruct us on how to do that?
27
President Obama certainly deserves to be criticized for his hypocrisy on this urgent issue. And it doesn't mean you're a GOP enabler if you expose the deep disconnect between his lofty words and his lukewarm and even retrograde actions. It simply means that you want him to respond more humanely and more consistently (as well as more robustly) to the horrific refugee crisis that is engulfing much of the world right now.
10
Anyone who wants can look at the Pew Research website and easily find the new study which indicates that the new babies from "minorities" are now, in fact, the majority. In a short time, the old majority will be the minority. Many can pretend, but this is the new America. Other countries have a national identity card and checks at the borders. We never did and this has been going since the post-war period through both Democrat and Republican administrations. "Americans" want someone to mow their lawns while they go to the gym. Got it.
8
Perhaps all we need is to adjust our rhetoric. The Republicans have blamed immigrants for everything from economic disaster to crime and to disease. And... what is the difference between current lot and erstwhile Poles, Irish, Italians, Slovaks, Catholics...?
These people make up the working class that will support Boomers and Millennials as they age into Social Security. Who has another idea?
These people make up the working class that will support Boomers and Millennials as they age into Social Security. Who has another idea?
9
Hondurans, Guatemalans and Salvadorans are not interested in asylum in Mexico or any other neighboring country. They are interested in the economic prosperity and social welfare programs that beckon them north of the Rio Grande. If Mexico offered them asylum, most would turn it down and head back to Central America, but Mexico would not offer many asylum because Mexican immigration officials, unlike U.S. immigration officials, are not under pressure by open border advocates. Mexican officials know that most of those fleeing street gang violence are street gang members. They know that street gangs don’t have to resort to threat to recruit new members like. They would guess that Cristóbal's if fleeing police, not his fellow gang members.
34
Correct.
The gangs were indeed born and bred in the US (especially Los Angeles)...but only after the Reagan-Bush administrations bolstered the violent Central American right-wing regimes of the 1980's, thus triggering the migrations that led to the formation off the gangs in US cities.
The US is indeed to blame for this catastrophe...its called "the chickens coming home to roost".
Clinton will no more bring justice to this than Trump. She actually has 'experience' undermining legitimate Central American governments (remember Honduras?) and has shown utter contempt for the children and parents who out of fear for their lives are forced to flee the shantytowns presided over buy her rich friends in Tegucigalpa. Her advice to them? Go home.
The gangs were indeed born and bred in the US (especially Los Angeles)...but only after the Reagan-Bush administrations bolstered the violent Central American right-wing regimes of the 1980's, thus triggering the migrations that led to the formation off the gangs in US cities.
The US is indeed to blame for this catastrophe...its called "the chickens coming home to roost".
Clinton will no more bring justice to this than Trump. She actually has 'experience' undermining legitimate Central American governments (remember Honduras?) and has shown utter contempt for the children and parents who out of fear for their lives are forced to flee the shantytowns presided over buy her rich friends in Tegucigalpa. Her advice to them? Go home.
10
Why is it so 'outrageous' to tell people who inhabit the "poorer" regions of the world not to have kids they can't feed, because we won't take care of them?
There are very real, corrosive security, not to mention economic effects of having a swiss cheese border and immigration "process".
There are very real, corrosive security, not to mention economic effects of having a swiss cheese border and immigration "process".
26
And he'd probably join a gang in the US once we gave him asylum. You think he's going to get a tech job? You bleeding hearts get the wool pulled over your eyes so easily.
22
It's long past time that the U.S. stopped trying to take care of the world's problems. We cannot accept more immigrants from Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala. Afghanistan, Syria, etc. until we take care of our own citizens who lack decent jobs, healthcare and educations. Obama's policy of stopping illegal immigrants before they reach our borders is to be applauded.
29
First the headline is outrageous, and in my view you need to be writing for the Enquirer, and not the NYT. Send, it is not the responsibility of the US to help everyone. Third, your claim that the US is responsible for what goes on there is an out and out exaggeration. Its columns like this that will help get DT elected, because you drive social liberals like me towards him, just to get a stop to the illegal immigration to this country. And yes, they are not undocumented, they are illegal.
38
If gangs are killing. Why aren't the gang members killed? Imitating the government of the Netherlands at this point in history might be premature.
With all the suffering illegal drugs cause why do so many of the self righteous of the right and left continue to use them? Theres the hypocrisy, not in the enforcement of immigration laws.
With all the suffering illegal drugs cause why do so many of the self righteous of the right and left continue to use them? Theres the hypocrisy, not in the enforcement of immigration laws.
3
What has Obama got to do with foreign gangs? He cannot be held responsible for other countries problems. America is losing the battle against its gangs on its own territory...
19
If you're going to accuse the president of effective complicity in the death of young peole from south of the border, you just might want to confirm their stories first.
20
one hundred years of colonial policies applied to central and south america by the united states, including CIA meddling in democratic elections, and this is the result.
so what, bananas are 29 cents a pound at wal*mart...
so what, bananas are 29 cents a pound at wal*mart...
11
Note to Nick Kristof: many regions of the world are hellholes. That situation is largely created by the people who live there, and only they can change it.
We have our own problems here, and need to take care of those, instead of trying to be the world's savior. Letting in everybody with a sob story will achieve nothing except turning our country into another hellhole.
We have our own problems here, and need to take care of those, instead of trying to be the world's savior. Letting in everybody with a sob story will achieve nothing except turning our country into another hellhole.
46
The US should be the policeman of the world not the nanny. Barack is a nanny.
3
The Supreme Court vote should have been 8. Why do we have immigration laws if they are not to be followed? Americans do not want or need the responsibility of feeding/educating/sheltering the world peoples for many reasons.
21
Liberal elitism at it's worst. Kristof blithely tells the entire Latino world that they are welcome here. Because it's not his taxes that will rise or his schools system that will be flooded with yet more unskilled Latinos. It's most certainly not his job that will be lost or his community stability that will be threatened. I suppose he will still wonder why it is that Trump has supporters.
34
President Obama idid not cause the social collapse in Honduras. But ignoring Central Americas problem is not an option.
5
Legalize all drugs. Stop the killing. Stop the gangs. Take away their market. Put them out of business.
8
And what happens when we accept all these people and they bring their deadly disputes to our cities? Keep them out.
26
I used to like you and read you, but no more! What nonsense and trump-speak.
12
The failed governments of El Salvador and Honduras have allowed this tragedy to fester, and it's Obama's fault?
30
Is there any problem the author thinks isn't caused by Americans? And is there any problem that does not have a solution that basically boils down to forcing Americans to let in yet more unskilled people here for the middle class to support?
33
I just don't understand Obama about this and other anti-liberal policies. This story deeply saddens me.
We need to set up programs to HELP these kids, not deport them.
It would help if we legalized drugs, thus making them less profitable.
We need to set up programs to HELP these kids, not deport them.
It would help if we legalized drugs, thus making them less profitable.
8
Here is the exact perfect piece addressing this article to a T. Written by Dr. Jerome Stephens, retired Professor from Indiana University. I urge everyone to please read it. http://politicalanalysis2011.blogspot.com/?m=1
1
As in many opinion pieces, serious issues are identified. What is a solution? What can the US do to help these kids trying to save their lives? I say let them come to the US. If they are strong enough to escape, resourceful enough to make it to the US they will be productive citizens. Many see this differently.
What would you do to solve this issue?
Complaining about lost jobs is not an answer.
What would you do to solve this issue?
Complaining about lost jobs is not an answer.
2
This op ed brought to you courtesy of the H clinton supported illegal coup against a democratically elected president in Honduras
"She's Baldly Lying": Dana Frank Responds to Hillary Clinton's Defense of Her Role in Honduras Coup
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/4/13/shes_baldly_lying_dana_frank_responds
"She's Baldly Lying": Dana Frank Responds to Hillary Clinton's Defense of Her Role in Honduras Coup
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/4/13/shes_baldly_lying_dana_frank_responds
11
Aw, c'mon. Legalize – and tax – illicit drugs. That will not only lead to the collapse of the narco-gangs south of our border, but also solve a bunch of problems – think overdoses and drug-related gun violence and deaths – stateside as well.
7
The US has traditionally backed super corrupt governments (not saying we should go to war to take them out or destabilize countries by taking them down - but btwn the US, the Soviet Union, and China one would think that someone could get the rest of the world to adopt conception control and clean up the gangs-- altho too often law enforcement also acts like another gang or supports a specific gang. Given that there are so many gangs in the dug trade time to make MJ at least legal.. (Cuomo stupidly just made matters worse only allowing MDs to prescribe one weeks worth of opioid paint relievers at a time. Maybe let Mejico make mj it's cash crop? does opium still come in from Afghanistan? Maybe let Carlos Slim do something to help his fellow citizens? Maybe set up golf courses, casions on the Mejican side of the Rio Grande... and engineer a reverse immigration.. (Any reason you can't put canneries and slaughter houses there as well? Solar energy farms. Time for some creative economic thinking.)
2
I feel like there is something really important missing from all these comments and the article itself. Where is the sense of responsibility that should be held by the governments of these countries? Why is it a problem for Mexico and the United States to handle? The US government is guilty of terrible decisions with regard to Central America and their governments. How can that be? It's just amazing how many awful atrocities have been committed in Central America, mostly sponsored by the Republican Party. Nikolas, instead of blaming Obama, why don't you suggest an alternative course? Why don't you use your great intellect and stimulating prose to propose a solution to the real problem, the governments of Central America? Blaming people, pontificating from on high is easy, why don't you try to do something that would make a difference?
11
Today Kristof is singing one of the many liberal commandments: thou shalt take care of the rest of the world. Never mind that 300 million Americans don't have the money and resources to take care of the other 7 billion people in the world.
Stay tuned, next week Kristof will be telling Americans to spend more money for prenatal care, preschool, regular school, tutoring, and college of the children of new immigrants. Or was that last week's commentary?
Stay tuned, next week Kristof will be telling Americans to spend more money for prenatal care, preschool, regular school, tutoring, and college of the children of new immigrants. Or was that last week's commentary?
37
Most of the Central American gangs exist because of the insanely high profit of illegal drug sales. When — oh when — will we finally understand that at least part of the solution to the refugee problem is to remove the incentive for gang formation by legalizing drugs? Prohibition has been a cataclysmic failure.We are slowly realizing that addiction can’t be successfully treated by incarceration of addicts. We are even slower in realizing that the problem of drug sales will never by resolved by capturing drug lords, when for every one captured there are hundreds waiting to take his place to take advantage of the artificially high prices.
16
Central America has its own drug addiction problem. Most of the violence is generated by street gangs competing to monopolize distribution within their own neighborhoods, not smuggling routes across the far distant Rio Grande. It’s street corner violence that has nothing to do with the retail process of drugs in the United States.
7
Why don't those in favor of legalization understand that America will not be the lowest cost producer of legalized drugs, solving nothing but legitimizing criminals in nations like Guatemala?
3
As long as USA officials refuse to legalize the illegal drugs, they will be a profit-making-industry for criminals and increase gangs and crime from the street to the banks involved.
2
After completing two Immigration Courses & writing essays the problem remains with the U.S. Congress (House and Senate). They all forget to listen to their constituents, all of them and not only the like-minded whom elected them. Each representative closes their ears to listen, comprehend, and retain the messages from 'the people' when they return to Washington. If all listened then they would have heard two decades ago that 'the people' were displeased that W.D.C. was not following the immigration laws of the Nation nor are each elected following their States immigration laws. The Fed Govt dropped the financial and cultural adaptation responsibilities upon the local communities and the states. This is a disaster because their is a lack of consistency throughout the U.S. because of State and Local laws that can differ than Fed Laws yet still be within the legal outline of the overarching Fed Laws. This alone is a recipe for disaster. Failure of leadership, afraid to make decisions that meet the entire citizenship majority. If you cannot lead then please step aside. We need term limits for Congressmen (2 yr terms should be out and 4 year term periods with a max of 8 years) and Senators (6 year terms should be limited to a maximum of 3 elections or 18 years). Also, once a Congressman there is no bed hopping to run for Senate. All elect's should not be allowed to become lobbyist for at minimum 10 years after they leave office.
8
These economic "refugees" all know the right story to tell - "Drug gangs threatened to kill me." What is the suggestion of the author of this article? Should the United States become the dumping ground for the surplus population of the Third World until the point where we are a Third World nation?
28
What a cheap shot at slandering Obama. I expect this type of rubbish from Rush Limbaugh, not the New York Times.
39
These are children, fleeing hell- a hell we had a large hand in creating. The governments of their home countries are not able to control the chaos. These children therefore meet the international definition of "refugees." We have a legal obligation to allow them to claim asylum and give them a full and fair hearing, an obligation we conveniently shirk by having Mexico do our dirty work. Bottom line- so many commenters here are advocating for sending these refugee children back to their deaths. The lack of compassion shown here is stunning.
7
Barack Obama has not passed a death sentence on anyone. What a totally stupid and thoughtless headline. Shame on you.
59
Mr. Kristof, this article is provocative and meaningless at the same time. To give some credibility toward your intelligence, I must assume you wrote this bleeding heart tome to get reactions or, maybe, just to reach a deadline. One can write anecdotal stories until the cows come home and yet not have anything to say.
First, let me state that I am no Obama fan, but he has proven himself to be more of a bleeding heart than many who have held his office.
We in the US have more problems to deal with than some Guatemalan kid who got himself mix up with gangsters. Writing stuff like this only serves to make your readers agree more with the Trump or the Brexit thinking of "Let's solve our own problems first and worry about the rest of the world as we have the time". Except for lining their own pockets and bettering their own lives, I doubt seriously that the rest of the world worries about Americans without work and US children without enough to eat.
Finally, please, Mr. Kristof, if you are going to write make it useful.
First, let me state that I am no Obama fan, but he has proven himself to be more of a bleeding heart than many who have held his office.
We in the US have more problems to deal with than some Guatemalan kid who got himself mix up with gangsters. Writing stuff like this only serves to make your readers agree more with the Trump or the Brexit thinking of "Let's solve our own problems first and worry about the rest of the world as we have the time". Except for lining their own pockets and bettering their own lives, I doubt seriously that the rest of the world worries about Americans without work and US children without enough to eat.
Finally, please, Mr. Kristof, if you are going to write make it useful.
36
Yeah, "Death Sentence" seems to be an awfully harsh judgement. The U.S. is not responsible for all of the horror and misery that takes place every day in so many corners of the world. Just wait until President Trump is in office and we'll see just how heartless Obama was. And what kinds of headlines will you write then?
39
Nick, our disreputable Republican Congress has chosen to hear of Barack Obama in no other terms than our “Black” President and as such, they have spurned him. I see it more as America's death sentence of President Obama.
He’s not the bad guy. You are way off base.
He’s not the bad guy. You are way off base.
18
Obama chose to identify as black, despite being of mixed race and raised by his two white grandparents, to whom it would appear he owes everything. He has brought upon himself whatever negative consequences result from identifying as black to the exclusion of his white heritage.
9
The point is there should be no negative consequences resulting from identifying as black.
15
This is typical right wing Obama bashing and immigration nonsense.. Employment rate is over 50% for young Black males in Chicago. Murders by gang violence and due to NRA/GOP gun policies are at an all time high and Mr. Kristoff wants to blame Obama for death of teens in Central America.Where is his concern for unemployment and spread of gang violence in US cities?What programs are Kristoff, GOP and Trump proposing?
Which President passed immigration laws in 2008 encouraging teens, children and women to flee South America and come to US illegally? Which party refuses to pass any immigration reform in Congress but complains that US policies do nothing to stop illegal immigration?
Are we are to trust Mr. Trump and the GOP to solve all of US problems by excluding all unskilled immigrants? Or are we to have fully open borders such as 2008 law Bush passed?
Which President passed immigration laws in 2008 encouraging teens, children and women to flee South America and come to US illegally? Which party refuses to pass any immigration reform in Congress but complains that US policies do nothing to stop illegal immigration?
Are we are to trust Mr. Trump and the GOP to solve all of US problems by excluding all unskilled immigrants? Or are we to have fully open borders such as 2008 law Bush passed?
25
Oh, cut it out! President Obama has been the president most friendly to Mexican-American immigrants in our history. Blaming him for what he didn't achieve is like disparaging Neil Armstrong because he didn't make it to Mars.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
28
Illegal drugs is the main driving force turning vast numbers below our Southern border into criminals.
Set up clinics here to give our addicts free heroin that they must consume while on the premises & under supervision. That will end needle sharing & the disease transmission that goes with it. Very few will die from overdoses because the heroin will not be cut with additives. Addicts will no longer have an incentive to induce others to try heroin because addicts will no longer act as a go between for those starting out who don't have their own connections and will no longer have to resort to criminal acts to obtain the money to buy their heroin
An added bonus is that there will be a chance to assist those who are still alive & want to leave behind their life of addiction
Without buyers - no demand - what will then be the point of engaging in the drug business. There will be a huge drop in criminal activity South of our border & we will see many less refugees fleeing from violence.
Not only does this have a chance of working, it will get the support of many more than opening up our borders to anyone who can just assert a claim of fleeing bad conditions South of the Border
Set up clinics here to give our addicts free heroin that they must consume while on the premises & under supervision. That will end needle sharing & the disease transmission that goes with it. Very few will die from overdoses because the heroin will not be cut with additives. Addicts will no longer have an incentive to induce others to try heroin because addicts will no longer act as a go between for those starting out who don't have their own connections and will no longer have to resort to criminal acts to obtain the money to buy their heroin
An added bonus is that there will be a chance to assist those who are still alive & want to leave behind their life of addiction
Without buyers - no demand - what will then be the point of engaging in the drug business. There will be a huge drop in criminal activity South of our border & we will see many less refugees fleeing from violence.
Not only does this have a chance of working, it will get the support of many more than opening up our borders to anyone who can just assert a claim of fleeing bad conditions South of the Border
6
You need to spend more time locally, for instance BALTIMORE or the South Side of Chicago where rising star demo Rahm Emmanuel allows a neighborhood more dangerous than Baghdad to exist so he and his fellow pols can deliver on promises of lower taxes for the rich, wars fought for special interests and the continuance of off shoring good jobs, arguably the root cause of all violence as the few capture all the wealth and the rest fight for the scraps. This is not just a local issue but a global one as many of these countries have some of the richest men in the world as citizens(although probably living in New York or Palm Beach) and their citizens starve. Yesterday's Times discussed the graft in Mozambique the poorest nation on earth with their President looking splendid in his Saville Row suit. Carlos Slim The worlds richest man could single handedly solve Mexicos problems, ditto the Saudis, ditto our banksters could alleviate abject poverty for our fifty million citizens. I know you love to travel Nicholas but we really need to take care of people dying, starving or in a cycle of generational poverty here. Take a trip to Appalachia, that's an eye opener or for that matter take a look at the hundreds of people on the streets in Portland or go to Eugene where the majority of the "Duck" students seem to be wealthy Chinese as our own youth pan handle. Get a grip Nicholas our nation and our youth need help. There is lots of global money we're just backing the wrong team.
33
Nicolas, why is this President Obama's fault? This is a serious issue, but its resolution is impossible for any one person to achieve. You should be blaming the entire system, not one man. This is a foolish premise. I'm disappointed with you on this one.
13
Kristof, if you feel so strongly about Cristobal, why don't you adopt him and his friends? Problem solved. By the way, why don't you write about the christian churches in Central America. Do they bear any responsibility? "Go and multiply."
21
I'm waiting for this Cristoff expose: The Mexican drug cartels "cash crop" is no longer drug trafficking.
They make the bulk of their money from human trafficking, slave trading and kidnapping. Why and how is that? Obama's policies have made both the push and pull factors enticing to both the evil traffickers and the innocent poor looking for a better life.
It's Obama who has caused this misery.
They make the bulk of their money from human trafficking, slave trading and kidnapping. Why and how is that? Obama's policies have made both the push and pull factors enticing to both the evil traffickers and the innocent poor looking for a better life.
It's Obama who has caused this misery.
6
I ask how Mr. Kristof knows for certain that Cristobal's tale is indeed true. It may be and, then again, it may not truthful. It is not reasonable to believe that everyone in another country who is in a sad predicament should be allowed to escape it by coming to the U.S. Furthermore, we already know that many "refugees" from Honduras and other Latin American countries are hardened gang members who bring only drugs and violence.
22
Now there's an immigration policy for you let anyone in the country who tells Nick Kristof, a journalist who has repeatedly printed other people's lies as the truth, a sob story.
It would be nice if we could solve all the horrible injustice in the world by simply letting its victim into America, but practically speaking we can't. People who live amidst injustice in their countries must fight in their own countries against that injustice. The practical solution here might be for America and Mexico to rethink their drug policies which have let criminal gangs flourish across the world.
It would be nice if we could solve all the horrible injustice in the world by simply letting its victim into America, but practically speaking we can't. People who live amidst injustice in their countries must fight in their own countries against that injustice. The practical solution here might be for America and Mexico to rethink their drug policies which have let criminal gangs flourish across the world.
28
Really Mr. Kristof! If you are going to point your finger at someone to blame, you should blame the large number of Americans who buy the drugs that pay for the American made weapons that the drug cartels buy to protect their turf and trade in Central America. You could also point your finger at the Republicans who refuse to perform their Constitutional responsibility to advise and consent in the appointment of judges to the Federal bench and Supreme Court.
The sovereign country of Mexico on our southern border has its own elected government and an estimated 2016 population of 127,927,966 citizens. You should be better informed.
The sovereign country of Mexico on our southern border has its own elected government and an estimated 2016 population of 127,927,966 citizens. You should be better informed.
15
Sure Nicolas. Let's take all of them. All 122 million from Mexico. We can afford it. We're only "19 trillion" in debt.
That's the logical endstate of your proposal.
That's the logical endstate of your proposal.
34
Kristof should apologize for that outrageous slap at Obama in the headline to his column. Or maybe he should disavow the headline's wording.
In any case, the column is another of Kristof's typical well-meant but muddy do-gooder lectures.
In any case, the column is another of Kristof's typical well-meant but muddy do-gooder lectures.
24
Shaming Obama has reached a new low with the title of this article; what can possibly be achieved by that? Declaring that "Obama did it" makes a mockery of this terrible tragedy. Sounds just like the twisted reasoning & accusations made by the dumpster & his toy Mcain that Obama is a traitor and caused the deaths in Orlando. You owe the president and your readers an apology.
28
For decades, the same "business model" has been used - a number of advanced countries ship aid (much of it filtered and pilfered through the United Nations and/or diverted to bank accounts in Switzerland or the Caymans). The best example of pointless outcomes is in Haiti.
The money the advanced countries send is spread thinly across many countries and is essentially wasted.
Each of the advanced countries should "adopt" one specific country - and more or less say "OK, boys and girls, we're going to send to you judges, we're going to send to you agricultural experts, we're going to send to you books for your schools. But we're not going to send to you money. Oh, and one more thing, we're going to insist that the President and his family submit to a full audit every year. Oh, and one more additional thing. The President will have to get along in a 10,000 square foot house. No bigger."
The money the advanced countries send is spread thinly across many countries and is essentially wasted.
Each of the advanced countries should "adopt" one specific country - and more or less say "OK, boys and girls, we're going to send to you judges, we're going to send to you agricultural experts, we're going to send to you books for your schools. But we're not going to send to you money. Oh, and one more thing, we're going to insist that the President and his family submit to a full audit every year. Oh, and one more additional thing. The President will have to get along in a 10,000 square foot house. No bigger."
6
I should be shocked by this article, but alas, it is more journalism at its worst and the reason the main stream media is no longer trusted. There is NOT one word of this story that can be proved or even backed up by another person. It is the WORST kind of propaganda by the LEFT to get people to demand open borders and more monies to be spent on EVERYONE but American citizens and our needs. There are things that can and should be done to improve conditions south of our border, but these unsubstantiated stories only make me angry. Where are the stories about Americans who need help...the seniors who can't make ends meet...students who aren't getting a quality education because of too many immigrants swamping their school districts with special needs...people who are sick, but can't get help because immigrants and refugees are first in line? Charity begins at home.
34
Nicholas, you're not thinking outside the box. And this headline for your article is the worst kind of journalism.
19
One problem is that nothing is ever written about the presidents of Guatemala, hondouras and El Salvador. How many readers of this article can actually name them. I can't. Who are they, how long have they been in office, what are the major changes they are bringing to their countries? Zip, nada., from MSM on these individuals and their governments. Why?
19
Perhaps the real threat to american national security lies in Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala. ISIS isn't near the threat these gangs are.
10
Central American street gangs were imported from the US? Ever hear of MS13? Ok let us assume that Central Americans are more advanced and civilized than the rest of the world and had no street gangs, why not compare the crime statistics between the two entities. All those advanced people in those advanced nations are under strict gun control laws but according to the article all the bad guys have a gun and are killing all the good guys without guns. And most importantly, why would Obama give Mexico, home of the worlds largest narco terrorist state, millions of dollars. And, I thought that undocumented personal stories of woe were not to be given any weight. Or perhaps they carry the weight of absolute fact of they fit the xenophobic narrative of this media outlet. Just for grins, imagine how much better the world would be if the US had control of the border, did not allow these US gangs to leave the nation to destroy the world using money and weapons that could be stopped by a secure border. Well one thing is for sure, all these problems are clearly created by evil angry white working class people who are uneducated but somehow sophisticated enough to create problems that the superior progressive cannot solve.
10
Ummm...MS-13 began in Los Angeles, predominantly by former El Salvadoran guerilla fighters organized and trained by the Reagan administration. We, i.e., the USA have deported numerous members of these gangs back to these Central American countries whose governments were, and are, unable to deal with them. As with Syria (Disengaged? What are your suggestions Kristof? As always you are quite good at IDENTIFYING the problem, but solutions not so much), there are no good answers. Just a lot of long-term, very hard work to strengthen the governments of these Central American countries so they can hopefully help the USA with addressing these issues.
3
I personally know a family who immigrated to the US from Honduras without documentation, fleeing exactly the type of violence described in this article. Their application for refugee status in the US was denied on the grounds that they had travelled through other countries where they just as easily could have stopped and attained refugee status - obviously meaning Mexico.
By that reasoning the US shouldn't ever grant refugee status to anyone other than Canadians and Mexicans, which is absurd.
Furthermore, it is grating to hear the hypocrisy of descendants of Ellis Island immigrants hold up the legal status of their forbears as an example of what those wishing to come to the US today should do. When US immigration policy truly reflects the mantra, "Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free," perhaps then two problems will be solved. A process that now can take decades and cost thousands of dollars will be reduced to a few minutes at no charge, and the US will no longer be complicit in the tragedies that await those who are deported back to violence-ravaged countries.
By that reasoning the US shouldn't ever grant refugee status to anyone other than Canadians and Mexicans, which is absurd.
Furthermore, it is grating to hear the hypocrisy of descendants of Ellis Island immigrants hold up the legal status of their forbears as an example of what those wishing to come to the US today should do. When US immigration policy truly reflects the mantra, "Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free," perhaps then two problems will be solved. A process that now can take decades and cost thousands of dollars will be reduced to a few minutes at no charge, and the US will no longer be complicit in the tragedies that await those who are deported back to violence-ravaged countries.
5
You raise a valid question: which mantras from 1885 can survive in 2016 and beyond, and in order to survive at least in part, what changes are necessary?
2
Easy to sit back with your comfy salary and life style writing your holier–than–thou op-eds criticizing this one or that one for not living up to your high moral expectations.
There are loads of young American citizens who are without jobs or hope living in gang infested impoverished neighborhoods that need attention from our government, and most likely the same situation exists in Mexico.
What we don't need are illiterate impoverished Guatemalan illegals crossing into America using up the scant resources that belong to American citizens.
Sorry Nick- this is Guatemala's problem not ours, maybe yours. However, it does give you something to write about.
Right?
There are loads of young American citizens who are without jobs or hope living in gang infested impoverished neighborhoods that need attention from our government, and most likely the same situation exists in Mexico.
What we don't need are illiterate impoverished Guatemalan illegals crossing into America using up the scant resources that belong to American citizens.
Sorry Nick- this is Guatemala's problem not ours, maybe yours. However, it does give you something to write about.
Right?
40
Ironic that this appears only a few days after Britain voted to exit the EU largely because of the question of immigration. People are sick of being lectured to about our obligations to illegal aliens all over the world. One of the main topics of this election is about immigration. Obama's isn't sentencing anyone to death, it's their own corrupt governments that are and it is not the taxpayers of the US burden to take on. Unless and until, our laws are enforced at the border, the possibility of President Trump remains. Are you listening Hillary?
36
First of all, is Cristobal telling the truth? Or has he been coached? Secondly, is the US responsible for his safety? How about the safety of everyone else on earth? Mr. Kristof's bleeding heart has been helpful in shedding light on the curse of sex slavery and trafficking. But to call legal deportations "Obama's death sentence" is outrageously unfair and I'm surprised to see this sort of complete rubbish in a column of his.
27
Kristof has a lot of concern for illegal immigrants. What about black Americans who have seen their jobs and and futures - by the millions - taken from them by illegals?
32
Which particular jobs are immigrants taking from black, or indeed any Americans? Here in southern Oregon the orchards are humming with migrant farm workers from Mexico and points south. Do you really think that if a wall were erected and they weren't there to harvest our pears, strawberries, lettuce, and everything else, the fields would be filled instead with any Americans, black or white? Who would have cleaned the last hotel room you stayed in? Immigrants, especially illegals from Mexico, arent taking architecture jobs. Or jobs in law or marketing or aircraft maintenance or plumbing or as chefs, professors, or any other skilled jobs. And why do you assume that migrants are taking the jobs of black Americans specifically? It implies that those dirty thankless jobs are the only ones blacks can get. The fact that you are concerned for them is touching, though.
Those hysterical about immigrants taking jobs, and led by their Hysteric-In-Chief, Trump, don't seem to understand the necessity of immigrants in making the country function. Let us know how you feel when tomatoes cost $12/pound, or you have to use the same towels two days in a row in a hotel, or you have to eat on dirty dishes at a restaurant.
Those hysterical about immigrants taking jobs, and led by their Hysteric-In-Chief, Trump, don't seem to understand the necessity of immigrants in making the country function. Let us know how you feel when tomatoes cost $12/pound, or you have to use the same towels two days in a row in a hotel, or you have to eat on dirty dishes at a restaurant.
1
So your remedy is to let in anyone who has a good story? Globalization is revealing its darker side as we look at Brexit and Europe's refugee problem. We can't handle all the world's lost people, especially ones with an appealing narrative, who once let in, could arise to become much more dangerous than the real or imagined enemies of their home countries.
32
You cannot lay this on President Obama.
17
How many hundreds of millions - or a billion - have similar stories. Take them all in and that's the end of American unity and prosperity. The US cannot be the dumping ground for all the world's problems. Sorry - no, not sorry, but that's the way it has to be.
24
I think this is all terrible. Indeed why are these countries so troublesome?? Dont blame Obama. I cant believe this situation makes him happy.
Doesnt the UN have an edict which says a person cannot be repatriated to a country where they will be killed? I hope that includes minors. Come to think of it; where is the UN in all of this?
Doesnt the UN have an edict which says a person cannot be repatriated to a country where they will be killed? I hope that includes minors. Come to think of it; where is the UN in all of this?
11
Obama is to work at the "highest levels" to resolve the chaos in these countries? Oh, and he is to blame for being "disengaged" in Syria?
Have you not seen the chaos that results when we try to "fix" countries in the Middle East?
Yes, the situation you describe is beyond horrible. To blame Obama for it, gives me a slow burn. Obama can't even get the simplest legislation through the GOP dominated congress to help "illegal" immigrants already here. Shame on you!
Have you not seen the chaos that results when we try to "fix" countries in the Middle East?
Yes, the situation you describe is beyond horrible. To blame Obama for it, gives me a slow burn. Obama can't even get the simplest legislation through the GOP dominated congress to help "illegal" immigrants already here. Shame on you!
10
Obama can't get legislation passed because the American public is tired of being told that our chief goal in life should be to provide for all the world's unskilled nationals.
5
Not sure that Nicholas Kristof is responsible for the title of his article. But isn't there a way of criticizing and unintended consequence of an Obma policy without making it seem like the deliberate purpose of the policy?
Makes Kristof sound like another Fox News pundit.
Or perhaps he likes to establish his independent creds.
Makes Kristof sound like another Fox News pundit.
Or perhaps he likes to establish his independent creds.
11
Look I am compassionate and not in the least conservative and feel sorry for 3/4 of the worlds population. However we cannot give them all asylum! And I would like to as Kristof on what basis would he decide which of 3/4 of the world he would like Obama to give asylum in the US,
Please stop this NK. We have trump to contend with.
Please stop this NK. We have trump to contend with.
24
Obama's death sentence?
A bit over the top...
There is no "Final Solution" that I'm aware of.
I have to ask this of right and left leaning editorialists:
Mr. Kristol, do/did your kids got to public school? If so, what percentage of their classmates did not speak fluent English? What percentage spoke a language other than English in their home?
I wish the NY Times had the answer to these questions available regarding all of their editorial writers.
A bit over the top...
There is no "Final Solution" that I'm aware of.
I have to ask this of right and left leaning editorialists:
Mr. Kristol, do/did your kids got to public school? If so, what percentage of their classmates did not speak fluent English? What percentage spoke a language other than English in their home?
I wish the NY Times had the answer to these questions available regarding all of their editorial writers.
15
Dear Mr. Kristof,
Or maybe it's time to admit that much like "Prohibition" in the 20's, the "War on Drugs" is a complete failure.
Legalizing the whole batch of popular drugs seems to me to be the way to break the backs of the cartels, reduce the amount of corruption of police and government officials (No need for "bribes" anymore) and save lives like that of Cristobal.
Otherwise, maintaining the current "policy" or retreads of other, older "policies", as you suggest, is like putting a band aid on an amputation; just ain't going to work.
Or maybe it's time to admit that much like "Prohibition" in the 20's, the "War on Drugs" is a complete failure.
Legalizing the whole batch of popular drugs seems to me to be the way to break the backs of the cartels, reduce the amount of corruption of police and government officials (No need for "bribes" anymore) and save lives like that of Cristobal.
Otherwise, maintaining the current "policy" or retreads of other, older "policies", as you suggest, is like putting a band aid on an amputation; just ain't going to work.
6
I assume Mr. Kristof will be admonishing Costa Rica, Equador, and Panama, all very close to these countries, for not taking in these native-language-speaking refugees either? Or is everything just on "US".
30
Thank you, Nicholas Kristof, for writing about this. I fully share your view about Obama's disgraceful role, especially in view of the United States' responsibility for creating the mess in those countries in the first place. You, however, seem to be a hypocrite as well as it appears that the candidate you support, Hillary Clinton, will not be any better than Obama in this regard. Already, she's on record for supporting sending unaccompanied children back to face - you agree - misery and death.
4
it was clinton who supported the honduran coup against an elected president, and since then violence has surged in the country creating more refugees
4
Great. Fifty are headed to your door right now. You will shelter, feed and provide them with medical care, right? You'll also be happy to give up English and speak only in Spanish, right?
7
Syria, where there is no US Interest. Russia has had a sea port there for 50.years. We are sending money to Jordan to help them feed refugees and medical care for them.
We have 11,000,000 in the US now. How many more?
If you were concerned about Carlos, you should have taken him home with you.
We have 11,000,000 in the US now. How many more?
If you were concerned about Carlos, you should have taken him home with you.
11
Really, whomever wrote this vulgar, sensational and inaccurate (putting it mildly) headline has no place at a respectable newspaper.
22
Your hyperbole is outrageous. With your logic, a doctor who fails to save a patient is guilty of murder. We cannot save everyone.
22
Words have meaning, Nick, and Cristobal and the other young Central American young people coming north fleeing violence and poverty are migrants, not "refugees", no matter how much that fact displeases you. It seems to me that the refugee/asylum system is working more or less the way it was designed. Mexico is the "first country of asylum" and it is there that the asylum claim should be adjudicated. It is no surprise that the approval rate for such claims in Mexico is so low: violence and poverty are not independent grounds for an asylum claim under international law. The surprise is that the approval rate for the same claim in the United States is so high. But we all know that this is because the President - cheered on by you, Nick, and the rest of the 'open borders' crowd at the New York Times - is manipulating the asylum process on behalf of the Hispanic special interest groups and globalization extremists that control U.S. immigration and refugee policy. No wonder the American people are so distrustful of their elites on these issues and no wonder some of them are prepared to hold their noses and vote Trump this November.
17
President Obama (for whom I voted twice, and would do so again if Constituionally-permitted) sold out to the Republicans on this one - yet, as alwas, the Republicans gave him nothing in return.
3
I predict the New York Times will close the comments section early again—too many are deviating against their narrative.
We cannot financially afford to bring even a fraction of the world's needy and dysfunctional here. Our immigration policy should benefit the American people broadly, including recent immigrants who came legally.
The mainstream media portrays low-wage migrants as heroic for breaking immigration law because they vote 80% Democrat and bolster a non-white ethnic bloc.
Enough of this madness. This wall needs to get built ASAP.
We cannot financially afford to bring even a fraction of the world's needy and dysfunctional here. Our immigration policy should benefit the American people broadly, including recent immigrants who came legally.
The mainstream media portrays low-wage migrants as heroic for breaking immigration law because they vote 80% Democrat and bolster a non-white ethnic bloc.
Enough of this madness. This wall needs to get built ASAP.
22
"Obama's Death Sentence For Young Refugees". Nice. No sensationalism there. In your next column, you should ponder the ascension of Donald Trump, because, you know, the NYT has never stooped to yellow journalism...
26
Dear Author,
Will you agree to take some of these refugees in your own home and sponsor them? Surely you have a guest room or even a couch. No?
Will you agree to take some of these refugees in your own home and sponsor them? Surely you have a guest room or even a couch. No?
30
I remain utterly mystified why people bring children into these seething Hells.
9
Yes, and Obama hasn't closed Gitmo.
I can't say it's his fault - he bears some responsibility - but I also can't relieve Congress in any way of its hyper politicization on immigration for the entire time Obama has been in office.
It was always an issue and it's been a struggle to get anything done as the GOP Congress sinks deeper into something beyond dysfunction and into the realm of crazed anarchic actions determined to do damage to the American system.
It not only prevents virtually meaningful progress - it's so much deeper, infused into so many micro bundles of right wing hysterics at every level beginning at local election races.
Nothing wrong with religion, but the right wing move toward anarchic theocracy splintered in many directions.call abortion a major issue or a moral issue - it's become so fundamental to politics no one can govern.
Much as the right and extreme right pointlessly repeal the ACA, there is a relentless frenzy to destroy effective government and make it less humane and decent. It was the right wing that roused themselves into a political attack several years ago against child refugees from under and terrorism in Central America. The samepeole who say you can't do,that happily urge Obama to use executive action to punish the weak and poor.
The struggle for political power and influence in a deep and ugly way has trumped everything else.
And we get mealy mouth columns tring to blame Obama for the ongoing outrage that is underway.
I can't say it's his fault - he bears some responsibility - but I also can't relieve Congress in any way of its hyper politicization on immigration for the entire time Obama has been in office.
It was always an issue and it's been a struggle to get anything done as the GOP Congress sinks deeper into something beyond dysfunction and into the realm of crazed anarchic actions determined to do damage to the American system.
It not only prevents virtually meaningful progress - it's so much deeper, infused into so many micro bundles of right wing hysterics at every level beginning at local election races.
Nothing wrong with religion, but the right wing move toward anarchic theocracy splintered in many directions.call abortion a major issue or a moral issue - it's become so fundamental to politics no one can govern.
Much as the right and extreme right pointlessly repeal the ACA, there is a relentless frenzy to destroy effective government and make it less humane and decent. It was the right wing that roused themselves into a political attack several years ago against child refugees from under and terrorism in Central America. The samepeole who say you can't do,that happily urge Obama to use executive action to punish the weak and poor.
The struggle for political power and influence in a deep and ugly way has trumped everything else.
And we get mealy mouth columns tring to blame Obama for the ongoing outrage that is underway.
6
TRAGEDY Is what many children fleeing Central America face to escape gang violence. While they are being turned back at Mexico's southern border, I disagree with Nick Kristof's attribution to Obama the "death sentence" the kids face. In 2011, Mexico established a policy for refugees. In 2014, the US and Mexico agreed to cooperate in sending back kids from Central America. Since that year, the US and Mexico have reportedly deported 800,000 migrants, including 40,000 children. Is Obama responsible individually for massive, unending insistence by mostly GOP members of Congress who have demanded that US borders be closed. As an advocate for children, I'm devastated at the number of kids who will be subjected to gang violence, injury and death, but I cannot bring myself to blame Obama for being forced to deport so many, since the GOP has been massively imposed to fixing the immigration system. Their rank hypocrisy, claiming to support family values while tearing families apart and sending them back to face violence, and in some cases, certain death, needs to be stopped. It is my fervent hope that the specter of a Trump presidency will affect voters in November to rid Congress of those members who do not believe in Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness as a basic unalienable human right, as stated in our Declaration of Independence. Refugees now constitute a major threat to global peace in ever increasing numbers. Wars and climate change are deadly and must stop.
5
I am waiting to see an editorial condemning Congress and the Supreme Court for their anti- immigrant stance. Young people feel the same pressures here to join gangs - under equally tragic circumstances. Stopping drug use would go along way to alleviate these cross border problems.
7
Mr. Kristof, how about an article about the "Republican's Death Sentence for Americans, the over 30 thousand killed annually because of unfettered access to guns?
In addition, it was none other than their St. Ronnie who was responsible for the destabilization of Central America.
Never have I read such an offensive headline as yours.
In addition, it was none other than their St. Ronnie who was responsible for the destabilization of Central America.
Never have I read such an offensive headline as yours.
14
Ugh. I wish I hadn't read this article. Mr. Kristof, you try to make it sound like all of Mexico's and Central America's problems are President Obama's fault, but I distinctly remember the current Congress doing absolutely nothing, i.e., OBSTRUCTION, on immigration which is why President Obama tried to use an Executive Order. And what happened to that EO, Mr Kristof? Why, the Supreme Court just ruled against it.
Also, the NYT should be ashamed of this headline -- it's beyond the pale and should be changed before all the Sunday readers see its inflammatory nature which, quite simply, is the right thing to do.
Also, the NYT should be ashamed of this headline -- it's beyond the pale and should be changed before all the Sunday readers see its inflammatory nature which, quite simply, is the right thing to do.
18
Obama has been a pitifully weak and generally-misguided president. What did he accomplish? The A.C.A., yes, a great achievement, but he had the votes for single-payer and refused to fight for it.
It is difficult to find a winner in this government of ours.
It is difficult to find a winner in this government of ours.
1
As a Mexican.... how do we dare to demand humane treatment from the US to our undocumented migrants, if we as Mexicans don't treat our Central American immigrants with dignity?
12
Thats not our problem.we have gangs in this country that reak havoic on people the mexican government will have to help them we have our own problems.
4
Fix the causes, not the symptom. Refugees are a call to action, but not necessarily to gather them in.
3
Do what exactly, when they "work at the highest levels with Honduras and El Salvador to address the chaos in those countries"? There are a lot of bad things going on in the world, the USA is powerful and you have a large megaphone. What do you suggest we do there? Go the Middle Eastern approach and kill the heads of every gang, hoping that they don't grow back and in the meantime take their bananas to finance it all?
3
Everyone in danger anywhere in the world should now be allowed to move to the US - and jump ahead of people legally in line. They can all move in with Nick. What? They can't move in with Nick because his co-op board won't allow it. Well that's OK, they can move in somewhere else. Nick does't care. He knows he is virtuous.
14
Since the US insists on keeping the crazy drug laws and 60 billion dollar lucrative drug war in place, we have some responsibility for creating the situations these kids are fleeing. These are not economic migrants these are children fleeing for their lives. Were we to "medicalize" all drugs - give them away in medical clinics..we'd save money, wreck the cartels and not have this problem of children fleeing for their lives. People make money from the drug war, from drugs, and from the for-profit detention centers where these kids end up, make some money for CCA, and then get sent back to flee again. Obama has been ruthless on this one.
4
There is definitely a down side to the drug laws we currently enforce. This allows charging exorbitant prices and encourages crime. However the laws are not crazy and they definitely have as much of an upside if not more. Thinking that lax drug laws would indicate an overall good for the world, the US and the "kids" is naive and myopic.
The UK just paid with Brexit for the haughtiness and narcissism of its leaders who thought it beneath them to try and understand the growing insecurity and powerlessness of the "commoners" who were faced with the unrestricted influx of troubled refugees just like the ones in this piece. There is a palpable sense of "enough is enough" growing in Europe, the USA, and Australia, and if our go to media (like the venerable NYTimes) keep up an air of limitless compassion for the poor and beleaguered elsewhere while dismissing the very real needs within our own borders and families as luxury problems, we might very well look at an ugly November election surprise.
14
Sick to death of the "we got ours, now you can't" attitude of previous immigrants. It's this nasty spirit that kept Jewish refugees from fleeing Hitler to freedom in the U.S. Maybe some of these refugees can contribute to solving problems here.
2
It's unconscionable that such things could happen. Anybody that claims to need sanctuary must really need it. How can we turn away anybody for any reason, when they come to our border in earnest? Very few of them will be terrorists, welfare cheats, or criminals, so shouldn't we open our doors and hearts for these people in need? Wouldn't other countries do the same for us?
People fleeing these terrible situations to the US is not the answer. Actually dismantling these drug cartels once and for all is.
1
The map in this article isn't just a "map of Mexico and Central America", as the picture caption states. It is an illegal "immigrant" transit map showing risky areas and places where bribes have to be paid.
Many of the kids coming across our border are joining family already illegally present in this country. Where does this end? When every person from Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador or anywhere else comes in? And who vets these stories and how? Anyone can parrot the line that seems to work in this country.
Chicago verges on being as bad as this. Why not accept their refugees?
Many of the kids coming across our border are joining family already illegally present in this country. Where does this end? When every person from Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador or anywhere else comes in? And who vets these stories and how? Anyone can parrot the line that seems to work in this country.
Chicago verges on being as bad as this. Why not accept their refugees?
7
Dear Mr. Kristof, I like you a lot. But if you're going to turn into a pseudo-"conservative" (which it appears to be what you're doing from your last few columns) can you please do it on your own time and not from the pulpit of the New York Times? I will still try to like you because ultimately who am I to judge? But there are a whole lot of other people to blame on a whole lot of things that are going on in the world - right now at this very minute - instead of Barack Obama. He's certainly not perfect. But is this the die-for hill to focus on the moment? This moment?
You're trolling deep here for an issue to focus on. The question for me is why. Original non-Trump thinking is not a good enough reason IMO. So: Perspective. Global perspective. Get some, please. Or get the one you had back that you used to great effect to inform us. Otherwise, you might want to get out.
You're trolling deep here for an issue to focus on. The question for me is why. Original non-Trump thinking is not a good enough reason IMO. So: Perspective. Global perspective. Get some, please. Or get the one you had back that you used to great effect to inform us. Otherwise, you might want to get out.
5
Could not have said it better. Period.
3
Nicholas, we do not need or want any of these people from abroad, especially from the Middle East who are invading, Europe, and eventually, our country.
It is that simple.
I live in Manhattan and see all kinds of people every day when I ride the subway. I am willing to live next to people who are black, green or purple, but who are quiet and OBEY OUR LAWS!
I hate going back to my home town in the Hudson Valley and see women who are forced to cover their faces, and men in turbans, and other such foreign headgear! I grew up in upstate NY with a lot of children and grandchildren of immigrants. They wanted to become Americans, and did. They went to school, learned English, and got jobs.
These newer immigrants, especially from arab and muslim countries, think they can reproduce their horrible societies right here, amongst Americans.
This is wrong, and must be stopped. The number of immigrants from the Muslim countries have altered the landscape in upstate NY, and most all living in public housing
You may not see this, living in Scarsdale, but the rest of us who live and travel in NYC and communities in upstate NY think that the brakes must be put on unchecked immigration.
Hudson, that cool place to visit upstate, is overrun with Mexican and Muslim immigrants!
It is that simple.
I live in Manhattan and see all kinds of people every day when I ride the subway. I am willing to live next to people who are black, green or purple, but who are quiet and OBEY OUR LAWS!
I hate going back to my home town in the Hudson Valley and see women who are forced to cover their faces, and men in turbans, and other such foreign headgear! I grew up in upstate NY with a lot of children and grandchildren of immigrants. They wanted to become Americans, and did. They went to school, learned English, and got jobs.
These newer immigrants, especially from arab and muslim countries, think they can reproduce their horrible societies right here, amongst Americans.
This is wrong, and must be stopped. The number of immigrants from the Muslim countries have altered the landscape in upstate NY, and most all living in public housing
You may not see this, living in Scarsdale, but the rest of us who live and travel in NYC and communities in upstate NY think that the brakes must be put on unchecked immigration.
Hudson, that cool place to visit upstate, is overrun with Mexican and Muslim immigrants!
9
Mr. Kristof writes the truth.
As with his articles about white people who don't get it, the deniers wish to squeeze their eyes shut to avoid seeing the profound pain and suffering we cause.
Just because we don't want to see something, it does not stop being true.
As with his articles about white people who don't get it, the deniers wish to squeeze their eyes shut to avoid seeing the profound pain and suffering we cause.
Just because we don't want to see something, it does not stop being true.
2
I agree with commenter Carnicelli -- treating medical substances as criminal is the root of the problem. If marijuana, heroin and cocaine were legal in the US there WOULD NOT BE ANY drug gangs in Mexico and Central America.
Legalize! Portugal did it ten years ago and several countries did it last year.
To see what else is needed go to YouTube and watch Comedy Party Platform (2 min 9 sec). If you vote in California, vote to legalize in the next election. Don't let the prison guards and Mormons keep pot illegal as they did in the last contest in California.
And yes, Obama has kept marijuana illegal at the Federal level, an immoral and expensive step which has certainly involved the deaths of many teenagers and gang members in Mexico. This policy may have helped Obama win re-election votes among older, vicious, thoughtless conservatives. But it is not a profile in courage, any more than Hillary's craven vote for invading Iraq was.
Legalize! Portugal did it ten years ago and several countries did it last year.
To see what else is needed go to YouTube and watch Comedy Party Platform (2 min 9 sec). If you vote in California, vote to legalize in the next election. Don't let the prison guards and Mormons keep pot illegal as they did in the last contest in California.
And yes, Obama has kept marijuana illegal at the Federal level, an immoral and expensive step which has certainly involved the deaths of many teenagers and gang members in Mexico. This policy may have helped Obama win re-election votes among older, vicious, thoughtless conservatives. But it is not a profile in courage, any more than Hillary's craven vote for invading Iraq was.
3
Your headline is actually outrageous. Exactly what do you expect the President to do with a Congressional blockade, Trump the new Republican nominee and letter writers demanding the President resign because the Iraqis refused to let us spend billions keeping more American troops in their country and/or because he tried to promote the order of emphasis on deportation of illegals? According to most Republicans everything that is wrong in the world today is Obama's fault because they all know he is either an evil dictator or lazy do-nothing! And now you blame him for this situation? Disgusting!
11
Sorry, but we cannot open our borders, nor save the world. I am unmoved.
14
Yeah, let's bring these young men here so that they can join a gang in East LA instead.
12
Kristof here has a point.
Reader, click and read the comments that received the most recommendations. Their arguments reflect the current political climate, which is basically a disgust with the notion that the Obama in particular and America in general are somehow “responsible” or even worse “to blame” for “foreign problems”. Similar sentiments have arose in Europe.
We have a right say “no” if we wish to their plight. But Kristof’s point is essentially correct—if a powerful leader like Obama sends them home, his action is their death sentence. Their action was to walk and ride 1500 miles north. The ball is in our court now because we have the power to decide their fate.
Kristof's point about America's role in producing Central American gangs also has validity. There are many things that America does that implicate its policies with unrest in the region.
This doesn’t have to make us feel resentful. It is simply a fact. What is noteworthy here is the applauded display of anger and resentment towards Kristof’s plea for granting these children sanctuary. The moral high ground is lost in this case. First, shelter the children, then address the causes of the problem. And let's save our resentment and anger for the elites that push agendas that advance power over principle, not towards the victims.
Reader, click and read the comments that received the most recommendations. Their arguments reflect the current political climate, which is basically a disgust with the notion that the Obama in particular and America in general are somehow “responsible” or even worse “to blame” for “foreign problems”. Similar sentiments have arose in Europe.
We have a right say “no” if we wish to their plight. But Kristof’s point is essentially correct—if a powerful leader like Obama sends them home, his action is their death sentence. Their action was to walk and ride 1500 miles north. The ball is in our court now because we have the power to decide their fate.
Kristof's point about America's role in producing Central American gangs also has validity. There are many things that America does that implicate its policies with unrest in the region.
This doesn’t have to make us feel resentful. It is simply a fact. What is noteworthy here is the applauded display of anger and resentment towards Kristof’s plea for granting these children sanctuary. The moral high ground is lost in this case. First, shelter the children, then address the causes of the problem. And let's save our resentment and anger for the elites that push agendas that advance power over principle, not towards the victims.
2
So your conclusion is that Obama has a bad immigration policy. He would like to keep parents of natural born Americans here in the US, while curtailing illegal immigration from Guatemala and Honduras. Better we get Trump. He'll send parents of kids born in the USA back to where they came from thirty or forty years ago. After he builds the wall (paid for by Mexico, of course), he will come up with a different plan for Hondurans and Guatemalans. Maybe kill them before they even get to the Mexican/Central American borders.
I love this president, but every time he makes policy that I slightly disagree with, I only think of just how very much worse it would be under a Trump. Isolationism is one thing, fascism is another. We'd get tons of both under Trump.
I love this president, but every time he makes policy that I slightly disagree with, I only think of just how very much worse it would be under a Trump. Isolationism is one thing, fascism is another. We'd get tons of both under Trump.
3
The U.S. has a long, sad history of supporting oppressive regimes in Central America. In Guatemala, the C.I.A. engineered a coup in 1954 to overthrow the democratically elected president., leading to the reign of the dictator General Rios Montt, and 36 years of civil war in which over 1,000 Maya were slaughtered. In El Salvador, during the civil war that began in 1980, the United States sent billions in aid to a government that used death squads and massacred its own citizens.
Central Americans fled to the United States in the 80's to escape the violence, only to encounter gang culture. And when they were deported back to Central America, gang culture was introduced into places devastated by civil war.
Central Americans fled to the United States in the 80's to escape the violence, only to encounter gang culture. And when they were deported back to Central America, gang culture was introduced into places devastated by civil war.
1
I agree with your first paragraph, but re: the second, gang culture exists everywhere (and in every era) that human beings exist.
1
Mr. Kristof - your hysterical rhetoric is pointless. All ideology aside, you are perfectly aware that without an immigration policy, the Southwest and -central United States would simply be annexed by Central America by the middle of this century. It's called population pressure, and it's a concrete inescapable fact.
15
While a death sentence to these foreigners due to the dysfunctional states of their country it is a welcomed pardon to American taxpayers tired of footing the bill for all these illegal aliens. Much like the British who are sick of Muslim migrants swarming into Europe Americans are getting sick of the 11,000,000 criminals living among us.
BTW it seems much like Obama refusing to use the correct term "Islamic terrorists" the NY Times refuses to use the term "illegal aliens". Instead they like the term "undocumented immigrant" as if they could obtain the required documentation but just forgot about it before swimming across the Rio Grande illegally to enter the US.
BTW it seems much like Obama refusing to use the correct term "Islamic terrorists" the NY Times refuses to use the term "illegal aliens". Instead they like the term "undocumented immigrant" as if they could obtain the required documentation but just forgot about it before swimming across the Rio Grande illegally to enter the US.
13
We have millions of college graduates who can't find work - yet we keep the humanitarian doors open for thousands of displaced refugees because their corrupt governments abdicate social welfare and responsibility. In every one of these central American countries- we have a U.S. Embassy that doesn't do anything to prevent this! What it God's name does the State Department do all day- other than provide cover stories for CIA agents?
11
Cristobal will have to get in line behind America's own children who we allow to be poisoned by drinking water and shot as they attend school and killed as they play in public playgrounds and killed by their own peers, shot as they walk the public streets, starved of proper nutrition, denied access to education. It's a nasty world out there for children and we play our part. We talk a good line, but it's part of the same hypocrisy in which we participate.
18
"Obama's Death Sentence for Young Refugees".
Just stop that nonsense, please! Really. You undermine your credibility on everything when you write such nonsensical, hyperbolic dribble.
There are a lot of really terrible places in the world. The United States cannot, unfortunately, rescue everyone from everything and still remain a viable, solvent nation.
Instead of creating sympathy, this type of silly exaggeration and accusation only hardens and enhances opposition to immigration. It really does. You naively undermine your policy goals by writing such unfortunate columns. When you get emotionally caught up in a moment like this, do us all a favor and chill out before you start typing something in the New York Times.
Thank you.
Just stop that nonsense, please! Really. You undermine your credibility on everything when you write such nonsensical, hyperbolic dribble.
There are a lot of really terrible places in the world. The United States cannot, unfortunately, rescue everyone from everything and still remain a viable, solvent nation.
Instead of creating sympathy, this type of silly exaggeration and accusation only hardens and enhances opposition to immigration. It really does. You naively undermine your policy goals by writing such unfortunate columns. When you get emotionally caught up in a moment like this, do us all a favor and chill out before you start typing something in the New York Times.
Thank you.
19
Maybe if we made drugs legal (but regulated) in the USA, the gangs in Central America would need to find other sources of income--and the societies in these poor countries would have a chance to flourish with a different economic base.
This article begins with disrespect. Obama....why not President Obama.
Yes Kristof tells the stories of these miserable immigrants coming from these miserable countries seeking freedom and opportunity at great personal cost and sometimes of their lives.
Why don't we have an illegal immigration problem with Canada?
In all of these countries a small group with the complicity of the security system and police sit at the top of their country, don't pay takes, exploit the wealth for their own benefit and invent new ways to export their corrupt earnings into Swiss bank accounts.
Why doesn't Kristof make these countries stop brutalizing their own people instead of writing articles that about their desperation.
Oh....he has a pretty good job, gets to travel a lot, stays in nice hotels when he travels and takes pictures of their misery.
President Obama is not condemning young people to death.
What a terrible title for a column.
I am a Vietnam Veteran, went to Bosnia with the U.S. army to make christians stop killing Muslims and saw the corruption in Haiti.
Yes Kristof tells the stories of these miserable immigrants coming from these miserable countries seeking freedom and opportunity at great personal cost and sometimes of their lives.
Why don't we have an illegal immigration problem with Canada?
In all of these countries a small group with the complicity of the security system and police sit at the top of their country, don't pay takes, exploit the wealth for their own benefit and invent new ways to export their corrupt earnings into Swiss bank accounts.
Why doesn't Kristof make these countries stop brutalizing their own people instead of writing articles that about their desperation.
Oh....he has a pretty good job, gets to travel a lot, stays in nice hotels when he travels and takes pictures of their misery.
President Obama is not condemning young people to death.
What a terrible title for a column.
I am a Vietnam Veteran, went to Bosnia with the U.S. army to make christians stop killing Muslims and saw the corruption in Haiti.
20
Why? Because Americans support the gangs in these countries through illegal drug use--that's why!
1
Mr. Obama's elitist globalist actions are inconsistent with MOST of America. Especially fly over country. Basically, these same Americans are tired of being bamboozled (if you like your doctor..) and are rejecting the elitist class, to include the Times. Why? Because you've all failed them.
8
Does Kristof have any limit on just which unfortunate citizens need to be welcomed here? Honduras? Sure - kids are a great empathy thingy. What about Central and Sub Saharan Africa?
What about the 21 % of American children living at or below the poverty line? Is it just horrifically callous to suggest that perhaps we should take care of our own first? Just who is going to shelter, nurture and educate all the children Nick would like to send here? Unemployment is down, but that does not take into consideration the rate of under employment by those who lost their jobs and now are just happy to have any income at all.
What about the 21 % of American children living at or below the poverty line? Is it just horrifically callous to suggest that perhaps we should take care of our own first? Just who is going to shelter, nurture and educate all the children Nick would like to send here? Unemployment is down, but that does not take into consideration the rate of under employment by those who lost their jobs and now are just happy to have any income at all.
22
I think it's completely disengenous and absurd to lay this entirely at the feet of Obama as though he were actually passing death sentences. That kind of hyperbole makes liberals look ridiculous. Yes, the President, and more particularly this country, could (and should) be doing more to help these children and young adults fleeing horrible violence in their own country, which (incidentally) we did not cause and don't actually have much to do with. But, the question should be, are we unique in our abdecation of what I think any fair minded person would consider a moral good but not a duty? NO! Why aren't we calling Justin Trudeau a child murderer... Canda could just as easily send buses to pick these people up and take them a little further North.
The fact is, everyone of us is somewhat complicit in human suffering and death around the world. Anytime you spend any money on any luxury item that could be used to buy mosquito nets, or feed hungry children, or invest in research etc... you are undoubtedly wasting resources that might save some significant number of people around the world.
We happen to live in a country where political capital is a resource. Obama spending political capital on this issue could very well send the election Donald Trump's way... Does anyone think more people in the world would be better off with Trump at the helm than Clinton? I don't.
The fact is, everyone of us is somewhat complicit in human suffering and death around the world. Anytime you spend any money on any luxury item that could be used to buy mosquito nets, or feed hungry children, or invest in research etc... you are undoubtedly wasting resources that might save some significant number of people around the world.
We happen to live in a country where political capital is a resource. Obama spending political capital on this issue could very well send the election Donald Trump's way... Does anyone think more people in the world would be better off with Trump at the helm than Clinton? I don't.
19
Historically, US support of corrupt regimes and CIA involvement has affected conditions in Central American countries.
1
America, this is not your problem. Really.
15
Blaming the president is simple and oversimplified. Has congress been helpful? What is public opinion on this? A horrible problem without a simple fix.
4
Americans want immigration control, including control on refugee inflows.
Americans want immigration limits, including limits on refugee inflows.
Americans do not want unlimited immigration.
Americans do not want endless exceptions and loopholes.
It is perfectly reasonable for every country to control and limit immigration.
Every immigrant, including every refugee, ought to prove his/her case,
to the immigration authorities, not to the media,
and be admitted only if a slot is available within established numerical limits.
Lax immigration control and limits stretch our resources and encourage even more would-be immigrants to test and stretch the limits.
Americans want immigration limits, including limits on refugee inflows.
Americans do not want unlimited immigration.
Americans do not want endless exceptions and loopholes.
It is perfectly reasonable for every country to control and limit immigration.
Every immigrant, including every refugee, ought to prove his/her case,
to the immigration authorities, not to the media,
and be admitted only if a slot is available within established numerical limits.
Lax immigration control and limits stretch our resources and encourage even more would-be immigrants to test and stretch the limits.
16
Call me cruel, but why should we care about Honduran children fleeing violent drug gangs when we've got plenty of American children in just as desperate circumstances and we do nothing to help them except possibly to throw them in jail? Charity begins at home, folks. Let's take care of our own poor first before we take in somebody else's. America needs to stop being the world's safety valve. Let their own governments help them.
16
Vile. The essence of demagoguery.
10
Free advertising for human traffickers. Ladies and gentlemen, today's New York Times!
11
President Barack Obama seems to be caught between the proverbial rock and the hard place. The balancing act: between enforcing our laws, and doing what is morally right; walking the tightrope between political reality and legal expedience.
Obama is fighting to protect who have come here over the generations--under whatever circumstances--raised families, found jobs, pay taxes and, thus, have made our land, their land. Some of them have even served in out military, and even died for this country.
Rather than passing a death sentence on people trying to escape Central America, President Obama seems to have realized that he cannot do the two things--protect those who are here and accept more. So, rather than lose on both accounts, he has made, what I think is, the right choice.
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
Obama is fighting to protect who have come here over the generations--under whatever circumstances--raised families, found jobs, pay taxes and, thus, have made our land, their land. Some of them have even served in out military, and even died for this country.
Rather than passing a death sentence on people trying to escape Central America, President Obama seems to have realized that he cannot do the two things--protect those who are here and accept more. So, rather than lose on both accounts, he has made, what I think is, the right choice.
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
7
Shouldn't the title of this "thought" piece more properly read: "Central American and Mexican Governments' Death Sentences for Its Citizens"? Are the geographic entities just past our southern border incapable of any law enforcement, particularly control of a relatively small percentage of their populations which seem to be able to leach the waning vitality of these countries? Should they just be designated failed states, and treated accordingly despite the international aid they receive each year in international funding, in large part from the United States? And if so, might the military power now trying to impose some sort of faux version of democracy on Afghanistan and Iraq be better used to aid these nations in destroying the gangs--which by most reports have more members in the United States than they do in their home countries--that are destroying the futures of these countries?
One way in which the U.S. can help alleviate this situation domestically is to turn more prisons into drug-rehabilitation centers for the "customers" of the drug arms of the gangs. But it is also our responsibility to not allow members of gangs and drug cartels to immigrate to the United States, or to stay here illegally under some misguided empathetic compulsion.
One way in which the U.S. can help alleviate this situation domestically is to turn more prisons into drug-rehabilitation centers for the "customers" of the drug arms of the gangs. But it is also our responsibility to not allow members of gangs and drug cartels to immigrate to the United States, or to stay here illegally under some misguided empathetic compulsion.
16
My thought exactly--the country that does not protect its own children bears the brunt of the responsibility here.
5
Its not Obama's death sentence its a death sentence from the gangs or the cartels that run the gangs. You can extrapolate that out to the governments of El Salvador or other Central American Countries, and Danny Ortega or Noriega and their descendants in gov't. Everything is not Obama's fault. Everything is not a problem for the US. It's this kind of linkage to the worlds problems that are at the root of American Conservativism and Nationalism. The consequences of their policies are detrimental to us all.
27
Obama’s death sentence on Central American refugees? What nonsense!
President Obama is sworn to enforce the immigration laws of the nation. He must turn away immigrants attempting to enter and deport those already here. His prosecutorial discretion in enforcing the immigration laws is limited by a crippled Supreme Court. Our foolish, outdated immigration policy will not be changed by our dysfunctional Congress.
The human race in entering the Age of Assimilation. The US, like the rest of the world, struggles in vain against the tide. Who is to blame? Anyone, everyone, and no one!
President Obama is sworn to enforce the immigration laws of the nation. He must turn away immigrants attempting to enter and deport those already here. His prosecutorial discretion in enforcing the immigration laws is limited by a crippled Supreme Court. Our foolish, outdated immigration policy will not be changed by our dysfunctional Congress.
The human race in entering the Age of Assimilation. The US, like the rest of the world, struggles in vain against the tide. Who is to blame? Anyone, everyone, and no one!
29
The whole world is hiding behind "the children".
3
Nice speeches, "hypocrisy."
I too find the words appealing but regret the unilateral method of imposing his will rankles. We need a functioning government, not grandstanding which ultimately fails.
I note also the blame game here. Sure many of the gang members have been in the US and do return to work with their home country gangs. But is it a US caused problem or did we fail in the first instance by not staunching this flow in the first place. We are very open and have not had effective control of immigration since at least the Kennedy Administration when our policies opened us to more diversity of immigration and through families first a slowing of migration directed more at what the immigrants could add rather than who needs compassion and support.
We need a full debate over the pros and cons of our policies and real change which must then become effective enforcement of policies, not neglect, disdain and ultimately chaos, our current default condition.
I too find the words appealing but regret the unilateral method of imposing his will rankles. We need a functioning government, not grandstanding which ultimately fails.
I note also the blame game here. Sure many of the gang members have been in the US and do return to work with their home country gangs. But is it a US caused problem or did we fail in the first instance by not staunching this flow in the first place. We are very open and have not had effective control of immigration since at least the Kennedy Administration when our policies opened us to more diversity of immigration and through families first a slowing of migration directed more at what the immigrants could add rather than who needs compassion and support.
We need a full debate over the pros and cons of our policies and real change which must then become effective enforcement of policies, not neglect, disdain and ultimately chaos, our current default condition.
13
I agree but lets start with the wet/foot/dry foot/ dusty foot policy and the Cuban Adjustment Act first.. That fraud costs the U.S. taxpayer $700 million dollars in benefits that our own elderly and poor who have been citizens their whole life don't receive.
8
Reading the reader picks, I was appalled at the callous responses. While any solution is complicated, sending children to slaughter is unconscionable.
Meanwhile, the US needs to take a hard look at their drug policies. A large step in the right direction would be to decriminalize drugs.
Meanwhile, the US needs to take a hard look at their drug policies. A large step in the right direction would be to decriminalize drugs.
20
There is nothing callous about looking at your own country and its citizens first and immigrants second. Hard headed perhaps, but it's about time we started doing that.
5
It's not about being callous, it's about being realistic. The U.S. needs to be more responsible with its drug policies, but it is not responsible for foreign nationals, regardless of their age and hardship.
4
Honduras has about 7,000 street-gang members like Cristobel, except that nearly all were eager to become gang members. If hundreds of thousands of Hondurans are fleeing to the United States to escape 7,000 street gang members, why not offer the street gangs sanctuary and citizenship in the United States. According to the FBI, the United States has 33,000 violent street, motorcycle, and prison gangs with 1.4 million members. So, absorbing all 7,000 Honduran street gang members would increase gang membership in the United States by only 0.5 percent. With the threat of gang violence removed, the hundreds of thousands of Hondurans who have fled to the United States could go home. Taking the gang members would be cheaper and less disruptive.
11
These guys learned to be gangsters in the US.
Mr case, you are obviously headed for a very successful career in politics!
You have to admit that Honduran gang members have all the skills—including language skills—they need to assimilate and acculturate into U.S. gang culture. This sets them apart from law-abiding Honduran migrants who lack the skills and education needed to assimilate and acculturate into the mainstream U.S. society.
2
Despite my support of immigration reform, I have to say that I find NK's column sanctimonious in the extreme. I share the sentiment of others that the USA cannot be the policeman of world injustice in every single instance of inhuman cruelty. At some point citizens of oppressive countries MUST step out and take the risks inherent in securing their own freedom. I don't mean, the risks of running away from the danger. I mean the risks of fighting back. Sure, it's dangerous to organize resistance to those, like the drug cartels, that terrorize others. But I don't believe it is the job of the USA to sacrifice American lives to single handedly foreign fight wars for those who aren't willing to risk their own lives.
41
Nonsense. We should allow all the military age men from the Middle East to come here and send our troops to fight their wars for them. In the mean time we can take everybody else in who has any problems. It's our duty as evil white people.
2
Slipped into this opinion piece is a point that substantiates an argument Trump has been grilled for, namely that many of the people coming across our border have not been freedom loving refugees, but rather criminals or potential criminals. Mara salvatrucha (MS-13), a particularly brutal street gang, was, as stated by NK, started in Los Angeles by primarily El Salvadoran illegal immigrants. When they were deported, those that have been at any rate, they translocated their criminal organization back to their home country, where it has flourished. While many, likely most, of the illegal immigrants in our country would like nothing more than to work and send money home, all of them begin their journey by breaking our laws, and many of them pay for their journey by being drug mules for cartels. That doesn't seem like a great way to begin your transition to a law-abiding citizen of our country. NK seems willing to accept any story as truth; it's clear that in the illegal immigrant underground there is a wealth of information passed along about how to get authorities to let you stay if caught. That was the origin of the unaccompanied minor influx over the last several years. Might not the same be true of stories of imminent peril if returned? Even if true we cannot cure the world's ills by letting the entire world into our country. At some point citizens of the countries of origin will have to find ways to combat poverty, crime and political unrest.
38
How many?
Where do a lot of the drugs from Central America end up? A guess might be right here in the US. Yes, we can talk about Honduras and El Salvador, the same with Mexico. They are corrupt, especially Mexico. And there is no doubt that these gangs are violent and that they threaten many people. We see them here. But street drugs, like any other commodity, need drug consumers. And, we have lots of those right here as well.
Of course, we have the right to protect our own borders and this tragedy of young people being sent back to their own countries is not President Obama's fault.
But, why aren't we doing a lot more to prevent people here from getting into drugs? Why are so many young people here taking drugs? Maybe if there wasn't such a lucrative market for these drugs, there would be fewer of these violent cartels. And, fewer people eager to cross the border, many for safety and others, perhaps, for more sinister reasons.
Of course, we have the right to protect our own borders and this tragedy of young people being sent back to their own countries is not President Obama's fault.
But, why aren't we doing a lot more to prevent people here from getting into drugs? Why are so many young people here taking drugs? Maybe if there wasn't such a lucrative market for these drugs, there would be fewer of these violent cartels. And, fewer people eager to cross the border, many for safety and others, perhaps, for more sinister reasons.
6
I agree that the kids should be allowed in our country, but in addition only the legal quota of adults. According to Homeland Security tables, roughly 350,000, refugees are legally accepted each year from North America since 2005. Of that total, Canada accounts for 10,000 to 15,000, and Mexico accounts for roughly 150,000 yearly. Accordingly, we must be accepting at least 185,000 from Central American countries. So don't tell me our country is inhumane.
8
Another writer who thinks the US is omnipotent. We are not. We cannot police the world, nor should we. Chaos is other countries is not for us to fix mostly because we don't do a very good job. We could have an immigration policy to address political oppression that works. That takes money to improve the hearing process, house people while awaiting the decision. That takes money too. The GOP has had years to look at immigration after all they enact the laws. Obama's modest and sensible plan to focus on criminals first for deportation was overturned by a conservative Valley judge and then rubber stamped by a regressive Fifth Circuit. And you blame Obama. How about blaming Congress, or Bush who put the Fifth Circuit judges on the bench or even the GOP. At the heart of the tyranny south of our border is the drug trade. It gives thugs money to bully everyone and to bribe local law enforcement. We could dull their power by legalizing all drugs and then spending law enforcement money on rehabilitation. We would save lives and we would end our indirect support of wanton criminality. But no, because the liquor lobby and evangelicals are merciless and powerful.
36
President Obama is firmly upholding the law in the context of fleeing refugees. How is that his death sentence? There has to be a comprehensive immigration reform which will allow compassion and extraordinary circumstances to be considered in allowing temporary refuge.
14
'Temporary' being the operative word that in practice is completely void. Those granted refugee status universally choose to 'change their status' to legal resident after 5 years. That has to become more than just paper work.
4
At the practical level how do we validate, "trust but verify" compassionate and extraordinary circumstances?
Immigration reform is another word for amnesty. It doesn't pass because Americans are sick of being inundated by the world's skilled labor while our taxes rise. Temporary becomes permanent because no one leaves. There are other, better solutions that do not involve in punishing members of our society for crimes we did not commit.
2
Although nobody would disagree that the things talked about in this article exist it goes without saying that anecdotal stories like this could be works of fiction told to the coached youth by liberal immigration zealots. The bottom line is that we simply do not have the money to solve this hemispheres problems, never mind the worlds. None of our treasure should be spent on illegal immigration until every citizen is safe from hunger and has an indoor space to call their own.
24
I look at us, here in America, a nation of immigrants, working together since we colonized this now failing nation, and I see a population angered and disappointed that the trust we placed, for so long, in successive administrations, has been taken for granted, used against us, used as a tool to knowingly beggar us, and this policy of avarice, regardless it's terrible and deadly effects, has been nurtured and exported worldwide.
The elites, our corporate masters, have subtly and with great deliberation, beggared the masses.
And now we face more of the same, Trump or Clunton, chortling in avaricious glee as they ready to continue the charade.
We Americans have the only choices ever given us, evil or lesser evil, both of which will produce the same result. And once again, we accept it !!
The elites, our corporate masters, have subtly and with great deliberation, beggared the masses.
And now we face more of the same, Trump or Clunton, chortling in avaricious glee as they ready to continue the charade.
We Americans have the only choices ever given us, evil or lesser evil, both of which will produce the same result. And once again, we accept it !!
6
As much as I agree that Central America is another one of those regions the USA has willingly destabilized in the past 60-70 years and for which it should be held responsible, this is not a political issue, this is a criminal issue.
These kids, and not just kids, are fleeing from criminal systems and not from political repression.
And criminal issues are a national issue these countries of origin have to solve themselves.
It does not work to declare all victims of crimes refugees and demand that they are being taken in.
Just consider that large percentages of the population of South and Central America are living in societies that have rampant criminal problems.
That is at least some 200 mio. people combined.
Do you want them all to move to the USA and become refugees?
Are you going to take care of them?
This is the same problem that e.g. the EU faces, as the discussion is the always same.
This is about real and perceived refugees.
All those who do not have a good life for reasons of crime, economic stress or climate change or simply want a better life would migrate at an instant.
The only thing that works to really help these people is to support local governments to end such crimes.
Or, to quote a well known sentence:
"You can feed a hungry person once if you give them food, but you can feed them for a long time if you show them how to fish or raise cattle"
These kids, and not just kids, are fleeing from criminal systems and not from political repression.
And criminal issues are a national issue these countries of origin have to solve themselves.
It does not work to declare all victims of crimes refugees and demand that they are being taken in.
Just consider that large percentages of the population of South and Central America are living in societies that have rampant criminal problems.
That is at least some 200 mio. people combined.
Do you want them all to move to the USA and become refugees?
Are you going to take care of them?
This is the same problem that e.g. the EU faces, as the discussion is the always same.
This is about real and perceived refugees.
All those who do not have a good life for reasons of crime, economic stress or climate change or simply want a better life would migrate at an instant.
The only thing that works to really help these people is to support local governments to end such crimes.
Or, to quote a well known sentence:
"You can feed a hungry person once if you give them food, but you can feed them for a long time if you show them how to fish or raise cattle"
11
Kristoff's way of thinking gives fuel to the people who support Trump.
If we were to allow anybody and everybody who wanted to emigrate to the US
Half of South and Central america we be here along with a good chunk of Africa.
I am a liberal but have come to the conclusion that immigration works best for a country when it is controlled regarding who comes in and how many. The amount of undocumented in this country is in the millions, take a look at Europe now.
While I am not for building walls, I am for controlled, sensible immigration.
If we were to allow anybody and everybody who wanted to emigrate to the US
Half of South and Central america we be here along with a good chunk of Africa.
I am a liberal but have come to the conclusion that immigration works best for a country when it is controlled regarding who comes in and how many. The amount of undocumented in this country is in the millions, take a look at Europe now.
While I am not for building walls, I am for controlled, sensible immigration.
55
The situation in Central America is tragic. It must be solved by Central Americans in their own locales.
At some point opinionators like Mr Kristoff need to ask themselves what a rational immigration policy must be in a world of turmoil. Should the US or Europe be the destination of every war torn dysfunctional location on the planet? Why stop at Central America? Why stop at the Syrian and N African migrants? Why not add Rwandans or Ukrainians? Why bother with any border controls at all?
The point is that while individual tragedies make the statistics human, opinionator ideas clamoring to alleviate individual human tragedies are just that, ideas fueled by emotions. Other than emotion and shaming, Mr Kristoff offers no ideas on how to address the problem at its root cause, which is the lucrative illicit drug industry.
The most the United States can and should do is to end the market incentives for the drug gangs by decriminalizing drugs. The "war on drugs" has not worked any better than prohibition worked in the 1920s. That would be a national policy that is workable and would not be an open ended drain on resources and tranquility.
At some point opinionators like Mr Kristoff need to ask themselves what a rational immigration policy must be in a world of turmoil. Should the US or Europe be the destination of every war torn dysfunctional location on the planet? Why stop at Central America? Why stop at the Syrian and N African migrants? Why not add Rwandans or Ukrainians? Why bother with any border controls at all?
The point is that while individual tragedies make the statistics human, opinionator ideas clamoring to alleviate individual human tragedies are just that, ideas fueled by emotions. Other than emotion and shaming, Mr Kristoff offers no ideas on how to address the problem at its root cause, which is the lucrative illicit drug industry.
The most the United States can and should do is to end the market incentives for the drug gangs by decriminalizing drugs. The "war on drugs" has not worked any better than prohibition worked in the 1920s. That would be a national policy that is workable and would not be an open ended drain on resources and tranquility.
34
Why do leaders in these countries do little to stem the violence, grow their economies and nurture a healthy middle class?
Because they would have to give up power and share their wealth. Why would they want that when they can export their people to the U.S to work illegally and send back $billions every year untaxed?
They are more than happy to have corrupt, dysfunctional countries so long as U.S taxpayers fund their oligarchies and they never have to care for their own people.
Let's put blame where blame is due. When was the last time you heard these elites ask for help actually solving their problems or speaking out in support of their own people? Supporting mass unfettered illegal immigration from these countries is supporting the existing greedy oligarchs. Corruption and violence is their business model.
Because they would have to give up power and share their wealth. Why would they want that when they can export their people to the U.S to work illegally and send back $billions every year untaxed?
They are more than happy to have corrupt, dysfunctional countries so long as U.S taxpayers fund their oligarchies and they never have to care for their own people.
Let's put blame where blame is due. When was the last time you heard these elites ask for help actually solving their problems or speaking out in support of their own people? Supporting mass unfettered illegal immigration from these countries is supporting the existing greedy oligarchs. Corruption and violence is their business model.
33
There are over 7 billion people on this planet, the USA has a finite amount of resources. We already have too many children already in this country not being properly cared for. These children are a victim of their own countries culture. To blame Obama for this misfortune is moronic, and I am usually toward the front of the line when it comes to blaming Mr. Obama.
37
I sincerely hope that someone other than Nicholas Kristof chose the title of this article .It is simply beneath contempt . Blaming President Obama for Central America's culture of murder is so far beyond the pale that the balance of the article stops making sense .
This is truly Nick Kristof at his do-gooding best . I understand (and sympathize) with the sentiments that motivate most of his columns, but I have gradually become more impatient with his default solution to the world's misery : let the United States take care of it . Nowhere in this (or for that matter, most of his other op-eds ) is there a suggestion that other countries, NGO's or groups could become part of the solution . In this particular case, I really wonder what Salva Lacruz, "coordinator of a human rights center" does, besides "scoffing" .
Finally, and more generally, if people in this and other countries cannot understand the many tragedies that beset our planet without every disaster being personalized, whether it be Carlos in Honduras, a grandmother in Iraq, a farmer in India as a "poster child" for climate change or a decapitated elephant as a symbol of the scourge of poaching in Central Africa, I am pessimistic about our ability to deal with these problems in their magnitude . While we may feel great empathy for the individual cases, we should rather understand that we are threatened by the calamities they represent . That, I believe, is lost in articles such as this one .
This is truly Nick Kristof at his do-gooding best . I understand (and sympathize) with the sentiments that motivate most of his columns, but I have gradually become more impatient with his default solution to the world's misery : let the United States take care of it . Nowhere in this (or for that matter, most of his other op-eds ) is there a suggestion that other countries, NGO's or groups could become part of the solution . In this particular case, I really wonder what Salva Lacruz, "coordinator of a human rights center" does, besides "scoffing" .
Finally, and more generally, if people in this and other countries cannot understand the many tragedies that beset our planet without every disaster being personalized, whether it be Carlos in Honduras, a grandmother in Iraq, a farmer in India as a "poster child" for climate change or a decapitated elephant as a symbol of the scourge of poaching in Central Africa, I am pessimistic about our ability to deal with these problems in their magnitude . While we may feel great empathy for the individual cases, we should rather understand that we are threatened by the calamities they represent . That, I believe, is lost in articles such as this one .
68
The problem with immigration always comes down to the macro vs. the micro. Most people would be fine wth admitting the people specifically mentioned in the article. However, from an overall policy perspective, no one knows what to do. There are hundreds of millions of people who would like to come to the U.S. They all have their reasons, fleeing violence, war, poverty, environmental degradation, to name a few. We do not have the environmental resources or the money to care for them all. We need an honest discussion of this.
67
An "honest discussion" usually involves being called a xenophobic racist by the open borders crowd, especially the nyts. The u.s. has 320 million people. This is far past any estimates that can be sustained long term. Our chaotic, accidental, unplanned immigration system (and I use the word loosely) is changing every aspect of this country without even a tiny bit of insight as to what the long term consequences will be. As the third most populous country on earth, that may still have time to debate the pros and cons of adding 100s of millions more people in the next century we'd do well to at least give the matter a little bit of thought.
5
We cannot fix the third world's problems by letting everyone here. The problems just come with them, including, yes, the gangs. These problems will have to be addressed in the countries that have them, and that includes that includes the real reason illegal immigrants cross several intervening countries to get to the United States -- economic opportunity. I mean, why settle for staying in a neighboring country when they can cross Mexico and take a job from a poor American?
62
No Obama has not been disengaged. But ours is a system of government where the opposition party can hold the president's policies hostage. Or did the columnist not take note of the litigation that led to the Supreme Court decision.
We live under certain laws and under them, the can only do what can be done politically.
We live under certain laws and under them, the can only do what can be done politically.
28
I would like to see articles written about the leaders of Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras. Who are they, and what have they done with the billions of dollars we have sent them over the last decade. They are responsible for the atrocities in their country not the United States. The American taxpayer is done funding the humanitarian crises of countries that refuse to look out for their own citizens.
86
There is one way and only one that will end a great deal of this mayhem and that is ending the War on Drugs. Once the U.S. no longer has to buy illegal drugs other programs of economic improvement could address the problem. Other countries have done it and we can have it if we insist on it. Addressing this horror without doing that is a waste of money and effort. This would also go a long way to stopping and shrinking the carceral state in this U.S.
20
Decriminalizing narcotics would remove just one of many sources of money for the gangs that rule Central America. (Such a policy change will never get past the lobbyists for the US police-industrial complex, but that's a question for another day.)
These gangs, the ones whose violence makes parents hire coyotes to try to bring their children to the US, aren't like the narco cartels. They have many revenue streams, mostly protection and extortion rackets. They mostly prey on their neighbors and each other. Perversely, the people of El Salvador and Guatemala might be better off if more MS13 and dies-y-ocho money came from narcotrafficking.
These gangs, the ones whose violence makes parents hire coyotes to try to bring their children to the US, aren't like the narco cartels. They have many revenue streams, mostly protection and extortion rackets. They mostly prey on their neighbors and each other. Perversely, the people of El Salvador and Guatemala might be better off if more MS13 and dies-y-ocho money came from narcotrafficking.
2
The world is overflowing with tragic stories like these. None of them are explainable under the overarching narrative of human kindness espoused by so many: man is naturally good, the only crime in humanity is the creation of gods that cause us to be suspicious of one another, altruism is not something that springs from faith but from a form of negotiated understanding of mutual needs.
If we could get serious for a generation, I wonder if we could eradicate the suffering in our own nation: adopt orphaned children and raise them as our own, house the homeless neighbor, support the struggling stranger.
And hold ourselves and our neighbors accountable, judging in love.
Then, with a better understanding of sacrifice and living for another, perhaps we could take on the rest of the world's brokenness.
These stories are heart-breaking, but every human being has a micro-tragedy or hardship working itself out within a mile of where he stands. What that person does about it is the question that is most important. You need not read about the rest of the world when your own street is crying out.
If we could get serious for a generation, I wonder if we could eradicate the suffering in our own nation: adopt orphaned children and raise them as our own, house the homeless neighbor, support the struggling stranger.
And hold ourselves and our neighbors accountable, judging in love.
Then, with a better understanding of sacrifice and living for another, perhaps we could take on the rest of the world's brokenness.
These stories are heart-breaking, but every human being has a micro-tragedy or hardship working itself out within a mile of where he stands. What that person does about it is the question that is most important. You need not read about the rest of the world when your own street is crying out.
19
Kristoff is dreaming if he thinks the Obama Administration could or would mount the kind of forceful, interventionalist initiative it would take to eradicate the gang/drug culture of Central America. Compassionate encouragement of child migrants fleeing death threats will do nothing to improve things, will exacerbate the disarray in U.S. border country and the Administratio'ns characteristic dithering will do nothing to fix what's going on in places like Honduras and Guatemala.
14
Do you mean the kind of "forceful, interventionalist initiative that it would take to eradicate the gang/drug culture of"...here? If we can't eradicate drug gangs here what makes you think we can anywhere else. America, even with the best intentions and the best efforts, cannot solve the problems of the world. Some things are simply going to have to be done by the peoples involved.
"U.S. bears some responsibility for the problems..."
Indeed!
Not a word, not one, about the underlying cause of all this suffering; the lucrative market for illegal drugs in the US, and the utter, abject failure of the US "War on Drugs" to do anything about it. It has been argued convincingly that it is the illegality of the drugs that drives up the price and the profit that motivates and finances the gangs in Central America and throughout the world.
Our War on Drugs not only doesn't work, it creates much more suffering than the drugs themselves.
Indeed!
Not a word, not one, about the underlying cause of all this suffering; the lucrative market for illegal drugs in the US, and the utter, abject failure of the US "War on Drugs" to do anything about it. It has been argued convincingly that it is the illegality of the drugs that drives up the price and the profit that motivates and finances the gangs in Central America and throughout the world.
Our War on Drugs not only doesn't work, it creates much more suffering than the drugs themselves.
40
Double-edged ironies abound. By 2000, in Afghanistan, the production of poppies virtually ceased under the Taliban. Upon our arrival and commencing with our war on drugs, production of poppies has increased exponentially. The more money we threw at warlords to halt the production of poppies, the bigger the crop. It seems the most important ingredient for increasing drug trafficking is the influx US money and involvement. We export corruption and import drugs. Amazing, isn't it.
7
"The American-Mexican collusion began in 2014 after a surge of Central Americans crossed into the U.S., including 50,000 unaccompanied children. "
Huh? Surge?
The NY Times and many of its supporters claimed there was no surge or crisis at the border at that time. It was just nativists and xenophobes whipping up hatred against some folks who didn't have enough paper.
Now we have Kristof blaming the US for the way it handled the non-crisis.
Huh? Surge?
The NY Times and many of its supporters claimed there was no surge or crisis at the border at that time. It was just nativists and xenophobes whipping up hatred against some folks who didn't have enough paper.
Now we have Kristof blaming the US for the way it handled the non-crisis.
13
Sorry, Kristoff, but neither Obama nor Peña Nieto are directly responsible directly for this child's fate.
Guatemala is. And previous American administrations that fostered the merciless exploitation of Central America at the hands of American companies, and planted banana dictators all over the region.
The solution, of course, is to help rebuild, as America did with Europe. Let that child live in a better country, his own, instead of bringing him to a country, our own,where racism and xenophobia under Republican and "Christian" rule will make his life perpetually worse. America, as it is today, is a nightmare, not a dream.
Guatemala is. And previous American administrations that fostered the merciless exploitation of Central America at the hands of American companies, and planted banana dictators all over the region.
The solution, of course, is to help rebuild, as America did with Europe. Let that child live in a better country, his own, instead of bringing him to a country, our own,where racism and xenophobia under Republican and "Christian" rule will make his life perpetually worse. America, as it is today, is a nightmare, not a dream.
23
Yes Alfredo......where racism and xenophobia under Republican and "Christian" rule will make his life perpetually worse.
Let bring more of these uneducated folks into the US. The folks in Chicago, N Y, Ferguson, Baltimore, D C etc need more free loaders.
Only the liberal progressives have the answer, which is, we have plenty of free money to use from the hard working Americans.
Happiest day in my life is when I left Ozone Park back in the 50's and haven't returned since.
Let bring more of these uneducated folks into the US. The folks in Chicago, N Y, Ferguson, Baltimore, D C etc need more free loaders.
Only the liberal progressives have the answer, which is, we have plenty of free money to use from the hard working Americans.
Happiest day in my life is when I left Ozone Park back in the 50's and haven't returned since.
1
You diminish your writing with nonsense-sensational titles like this. Actually, it reminds me of your "Asian-Americans are perfect" articles and it all makes sense.
13
This is a terrible problem which merely accepting refugees does nothing to solve. You are wrong to lay blame for this at Obama's feet. (The columnist equivalent of pointing fingers). This complex issue must be dealt with on an International level. In fact Most refugee issues can only be solved by addressing economic , crime and corruption problems in their home nations. so far, no one has made a dent.
What's your idea for solving the awful problems in Guatemala? Now that would be a great column!
What's your idea for solving the awful problems in Guatemala? Now that would be a great column!
29
There are drug gangs in Chicago who kill 16 year old Americans.
There are most likely 16 year old children in gulags in North Korea
There are 16 year old kids in Syria who without a doubt are in the middle of what could only be described as pure hell.
There were 16 old kids in Rwanda in the '90's, some did the killing, some did the dying.
I understand the need to help, I understand the obligation to help all those folks but we are a nation of laws.
As a middle of the road Democrat I see illegal immigration as nothing more than the exploitation of people who come to America seeking what every person who ever came to this great country has sought freedom, or a better life, or the chance to live without fear of the government knocking on your door in the middle of the night and arresting you because you're trying to organize a union or the umpteen million other reasons people come here.
My parents were immigrants to this country, in the 1950's when my father arrived here it was after a multi-year wait for a visa.
He waited and luckily for me, he got in.
Yes I feel like a lottery winner!
Let me be clear he came not fleeing persecution, but because he had "caught the bug of the American Dream"
We desperately need immigration reform in this country, but we don't govern based on edicts from an omnipotent Leader.
I like Pres. Obama, I voted for him twice and I'd vote for him a 3rd time, if the 22nd Amendment wasn't precluding his running again.
But we are a nation of laws!
There are most likely 16 year old children in gulags in North Korea
There are 16 year old kids in Syria who without a doubt are in the middle of what could only be described as pure hell.
There were 16 old kids in Rwanda in the '90's, some did the killing, some did the dying.
I understand the need to help, I understand the obligation to help all those folks but we are a nation of laws.
As a middle of the road Democrat I see illegal immigration as nothing more than the exploitation of people who come to America seeking what every person who ever came to this great country has sought freedom, or a better life, or the chance to live without fear of the government knocking on your door in the middle of the night and arresting you because you're trying to organize a union or the umpteen million other reasons people come here.
My parents were immigrants to this country, in the 1950's when my father arrived here it was after a multi-year wait for a visa.
He waited and luckily for me, he got in.
Yes I feel like a lottery winner!
Let me be clear he came not fleeing persecution, but because he had "caught the bug of the American Dream"
We desperately need immigration reform in this country, but we don't govern based on edicts from an omnipotent Leader.
I like Pres. Obama, I voted for him twice and I'd vote for him a 3rd time, if the 22nd Amendment wasn't precluding his running again.
But we are a nation of laws!
20
Make no mistake: the gangs are the ones instituting death sentences, not Obama and the US. Blame the gangs and hold them accountable.
42
Rather than just deporting these people, we should organize them into a brigade, train and arm them, and send them back to their homelands to clean up the gang problems there. This would eliminate the cause of the problem while removing the illegal immigrants from this country.
7
Some of them have been age four and all alone..we sent that one (that I know of) back, alone...he was picked up at the plane by social services and protected..others older, won't be protected.
`` The Central American street gangs were born in the United States and traveled with deportees to countries like El Salvador.''
This claim is begging for further explanation. Perhaps Mr. Kristof, who does admirable work, could enlighten us on this point in a future column.
This claim is begging for further explanation. Perhaps Mr. Kristof, who does admirable work, could enlighten us on this point in a future column.
7
Give it a break Kristof, this is a mean cruel world.
Thinking about Global Warming, I worry about millions of refugees from Central America coming through Mexico.
Maybe Trump is on to something with his wall and Mexico paying for it.
A wild thought indeed.
Thinking about Global Warming, I worry about millions of refugees from Central America coming through Mexico.
Maybe Trump is on to something with his wall and Mexico paying for it.
A wild thought indeed.
11
It is not so easy. If Obama starts "addressing the chaos" he will be accused of "interfering". Look at what is happening here in Venezuela!! If only our regime would allow USA to "address" just a tiny part of our "chaos".....
4
I am a social worker in CO. I work at a walk in crisis center where anyone at anytime with any mental health issue can walk in and talk to a therapist. Last week , a Spanish speaking only male came into the crisis center with 2 friends who served as interpreters. He said he fled Mexico 19 months ago to get away from the drug cartel who had murdered his family. He was a witness to the murder. Now he is tormented by violent mental images of what he saw and came for help because he had a plan to hang himself. He said he couldn't deal with the images in his head. I sent him to a local hospital to be admitted for inpatient psychiatric care. The fact that the US wants to send these asylum seekers back to their home countries is unconscionable to me.
4
When we cower before children, we're--Republicans. Obama has to share the blame, but the immigrant-fearing idealogues to his right share the blame, too. We are cowering before little children, Syrians and others included.
The Brexit is about cowering before children. Need we repeat this idiocy?
The Brexit is about cowering before children. Need we repeat this idiocy?
1
From Rochdale to Rotherham to Oxford and beyond in the U.K., I believe it was children doing the cowering.
No, let's repeat the European insanity of inviting everybody from the ME and Africa like merkle did. That's really working out.
2
Very sad. The brutality and violence is cruel and unusual. Humanity can be evil. This is the world we live in.
2
Having visited Cuba (a functioning country), I'm constantly amazed that the old "cold war" holdover of being Cuban allows an immediate welcome in the US when terrorized children in Central American countries riven by drug wars (because of drug use in the US) are turned away and sent back. How is this possible???
8
powerful rich Cubans in Miami give money to politicians - not many powerful rich Haitians or dudes from El Salvador
1
Honduras is a huge country; if you’re threatened in San Pedro, got to Tegucigalpa. Or if you need to leave the country, go to Guatemala. Or Nicaragua. Or El Salvidor. Or Peru.
Why does it ALWAYS have to be HERE?
Maybe a few folks – taking them at their word – are threatened by gangs. But 50,000 in one year? Not a chance.
And, so the gangs started among illegals here? Sounds like a great reason to stop illegal immigration cold. And perhaps if we ended the “war on drugs”, these gangs would lose their reason to exist.
It is simply impossible for the US to admit millions of welfare cases each year. Each of these kids will cost a fortune; tens of thousands a year.
The number of unfortunates, poor, threatened, people in the world probably runs into the billions. Just how many of them do you suggest we admit?
If, however, your point is the BHO can't be trusted to tell the truth, point taken. But it's taken you a long while to recognize the obvious.
Why does it ALWAYS have to be HERE?
Maybe a few folks – taking them at their word – are threatened by gangs. But 50,000 in one year? Not a chance.
And, so the gangs started among illegals here? Sounds like a great reason to stop illegal immigration cold. And perhaps if we ended the “war on drugs”, these gangs would lose their reason to exist.
It is simply impossible for the US to admit millions of welfare cases each year. Each of these kids will cost a fortune; tens of thousands a year.
The number of unfortunates, poor, threatened, people in the world probably runs into the billions. Just how many of them do you suggest we admit?
If, however, your point is the BHO can't be trusted to tell the truth, point taken. But it's taken you a long while to recognize the obvious.
28
Excellent reply. The open borders people respond to any fact/numbers/common sense question to letting everyone on earth come here with name calling and emotional heart tugging pleas. In the end, adding the millions of people we do so casually every year is changing this country permanently and in ways that can't be predicted. It's not fair to do this to the present or future citizens with little to no discussion of its impact.
7
When the War on Drugs intensified and the truthful Gipper illegally sold weapons to Iran to fuel the carnage in Central America BHO was in high school. Maybe BHO was an summer intern in the office of another truthful patriot known as Ollie and helped Fawn Hall stuff government documents in her underwear.
If you think about it, BHO may have been old enough to be the second shooter in the grassy knoll in Dallas.
If you think about it, BHO may have been old enough to be the second shooter in the grassy knoll in Dallas.
Sorry, Nick. We simply can't absorb the poor and deserving of the entire planet.
However, I am sure you could house some of the already-arrived in your digs in Manhattan, right?
What needs doing is our establishing an American zone in squalid Central America where our rule of law and our system are set up and maintained.
However, I am sure you could house some of the already-arrived in your digs in Manhattan, right?
What needs doing is our establishing an American zone in squalid Central America where our rule of law and our system are set up and maintained.
24
Any young Hispanic fleeing a gang could migrate to another Spanish-speaking country. They already understand the language and culture, that's a big advantage.
Of course, they wouldn't receive free healthcare, food, schooling, housing etc like they do here. Only in America do we reward illegal immigrants in such a royal fashion.
I'm tired of my tax dollars going to provide for illegal immigrants. I want those hard-earned dollars to help poor people here who are already American citizens, either born here or naturalized. God knows plenty of poor people here are out of work and desperately need it.
Sorry, Mr. Kristof, but as Americans we should not be responsible to take care of the entire world. No additional sob stories will change my mind at this point. People's patience with illegals is not endless.
Of course, they wouldn't receive free healthcare, food, schooling, housing etc like they do here. Only in America do we reward illegal immigrants in such a royal fashion.
I'm tired of my tax dollars going to provide for illegal immigrants. I want those hard-earned dollars to help poor people here who are already American citizens, either born here or naturalized. God knows plenty of poor people here are out of work and desperately need it.
Sorry, Mr. Kristof, but as Americans we should not be responsible to take care of the entire world. No additional sob stories will change my mind at this point. People's patience with illegals is not endless.
35
For your information, many of these children have made their way South and found charity in the form of free housing, food, schooling, and health care. However, the trip South is more geographically perilous than going North.
It makes no sense to give asylum for someone threatened by a street gang.
They may be unsafe in their hometown, but that does not make them unsafe if they quietly move 200 or 300 miles inside their own country. You should not be able to claim asylum in another country when part of your own country is safe.
And while the biggest drug gangs might perhaps have cross-national reach, all of the big ones began in the US and have a sizeable presence here. To the extent there is danger, it does not end in the US, and so it makes no sense to claim asylum in the US if gang threats are the issue. The reason these migrants come to the US is economic, because their countries are desperately poor, with all that goes with that, and the US is not.
They may be unsafe in their hometown, but that does not make them unsafe if they quietly move 200 or 300 miles inside their own country. You should not be able to claim asylum in another country when part of your own country is safe.
And while the biggest drug gangs might perhaps have cross-national reach, all of the big ones began in the US and have a sizeable presence here. To the extent there is danger, it does not end in the US, and so it makes no sense to claim asylum in the US if gang threats are the issue. The reason these migrants come to the US is economic, because their countries are desperately poor, with all that goes with that, and the US is not.
17
Nobody talks of floods of refugees from Nicaragua. Leftists are strong there, unlike Guatemala (where we had a coup that installed conservative leaders) or Honduras (where our anti-Sandanistas were based). The sort of business-friendly regimes we favor are controlled by elites who do not believe in doing much for the common people, including protecting them from gangs.
16
Your solution then, to the problem of a surge of 50,000 unaccompanied child immigrants is: ask Mexico to screen them. Oh and engage in their home countries until their home countries are more attractive to them than the US -- really? Obviously the purpose of this column is to display The phrase "Obama death sentence!" And with typical GOP hypocrisy, to blame Obama once again for not doing things the GOP would not allow anyway? You're implication that the GOP cares about these refugees is disingenuous -- they don't.
3
Dear Mr. Kristof, I like you a lot. But if you're going to turn into a pseudo-"conservative" (which is appears to be what you're doing from your last few columns) can you please do it on your own time and not from the pulpit of the New York Times? I will still try to like you because ultimately who am I to judge? But there are a whole lot of other people to blame on a whole lot of things that are going on in the world - right now at this very minute - instead of Barack Obama. He's certainly not perfect. But is this the die-for hill to focus on the moment? This moment?
You're trolling deep here for an issue to focus on. The question for me is why. Original non-Trump thinking is not a good enough reason IMO. So: Perspective. Global perspective. Get some, please. Or get the one you had back that you used to great effect to inform us. Otherwise, you might want to get out.
You're trolling deep here for an issue to focus on. The question for me is why. Original non-Trump thinking is not a good enough reason IMO. So: Perspective. Global perspective. Get some, please. Or get the one you had back that you used to great effect to inform us. Otherwise, you might want to get out.
6
Sorry, Mr. Kristof. But if this is all about giving out blame, you should really extend your list to include those Central American governments that allow, and abide by the rampant gang culture and violence going on in their countries.
There is no reason why the United States or even Mexico, should be responsible for any criminal activty-- and its aftermath-- taking place beyond its own borders. There's enough of that to deal with here already.
Also, in all fairness to President Obama, it should be noted that both he and his administration have basically been hobbled by a Republican Congress since Day 1 -- and more often than not, almost every legislation would meet with a swift end on the House floor.
While his immigration policy may not have been an resounding success, if you think that the Republicans will be more lenient on this issue, you have a big surprise in store for you.
There is no reason why the United States or even Mexico, should be responsible for any criminal activty-- and its aftermath-- taking place beyond its own borders. There's enough of that to deal with here already.
Also, in all fairness to President Obama, it should be noted that both he and his administration have basically been hobbled by a Republican Congress since Day 1 -- and more often than not, almost every legislation would meet with a swift end on the House floor.
While his immigration policy may not have been an resounding success, if you think that the Republicans will be more lenient on this issue, you have a big surprise in store for you.
13
To me, this sounds like a problem for Mexico not the US. Nor does it sound like a problem created by the US or Obama.
I honestly think that Obama is "the straw" and I have no faith in America ever being able to recover from the foreign or domestic policies that he has forced upon us.
But all that being said, when a country like Mexico chooses to ban guns from normal citizens, ignores democracy and places corrupt people in positions of power for personal gain, doesn't respect the majorities wishes and places minorities desires ahead of the common sense needs of their country, doesn't hold politicians, the legal system or civil workers accountable then this is what happens.
When you take a young ladies right to go to the restroom without a man there, when you take a mans right to own a firearm legally away, when you tell children in school that they have to conform to the ideas taught to them by a government driven agenda, when you take Christ out of schools, courthouses, the workplace and start putting "Muslim rights, gay rights " etc ahead of the common people who work hard to support all those on welfare along with their own family.
Tell that kid running from the gangs to pray to God. Tell him that there is no use running to America because we are determined to destroy what is great about this country and it won't be long until we are no better off than Mexico....
Soon we will be in the same boat as him. Sinking. At that point people will pray.
I honestly think that Obama is "the straw" and I have no faith in America ever being able to recover from the foreign or domestic policies that he has forced upon us.
But all that being said, when a country like Mexico chooses to ban guns from normal citizens, ignores democracy and places corrupt people in positions of power for personal gain, doesn't respect the majorities wishes and places minorities desires ahead of the common sense needs of their country, doesn't hold politicians, the legal system or civil workers accountable then this is what happens.
When you take a young ladies right to go to the restroom without a man there, when you take a mans right to own a firearm legally away, when you tell children in school that they have to conform to the ideas taught to them by a government driven agenda, when you take Christ out of schools, courthouses, the workplace and start putting "Muslim rights, gay rights " etc ahead of the common people who work hard to support all those on welfare along with their own family.
Tell that kid running from the gangs to pray to God. Tell him that there is no use running to America because we are determined to destroy what is great about this country and it won't be long until we are no better off than Mexico....
Soon we will be in the same boat as him. Sinking. At that point people will pray.
3
I'm against people coming illegally from Mexico, with its 4.9% unemployment rate, simply because they want a better job. But this is stopping Anne Frank at the border and unconscionable. Papers or no papers, come on in. My job is not worth your life.
Great for you. Please don't think you are speaking for the rest of us.
1
How will you live without your job?
The Lord will provide. How will you live knowing the price of your job is a life you could have saved?
Rather then whine and complain why not contact ICE for assistance?
1
Well jeez! OK, let's reward all of the (just over 11 million) undocumented and illegal aliens and pardon them all for breaking our laws and entering illegally or overstaying beyond their permitted legal visit length. I don't even know if the legal visitors who have overstayed their legal visit length are included in that just over 11 million figure. If not, I wonder how many "guests" there are who have overstayed their legal visit. I feel sorry for all of those who are waiting on line legally and all of those who have gone through the system to be here legally on the path to citizenship. Pardoning and allowing illegals to remain is, well, It's a little like giving someone a college diploma without their having paid for or attending college. How about letting American citizens break the law and then reward us with turning a blind eye and give us clemency and pardon for breaking the law.
13
Mr. Kristof while sparing the paeans and hosannas to your writing I sincerely disagree with your consistent advocacy of emotion rationale overcoming legal rulings. While we all have to be generous to a fault one cannot overlook the millions who are in line to follow rules to get here.
For every sad story there is another one. To provide an option and escape for one guilt story doesn't and will not end others.
As a solution why not advocate blanket automatic nationality US rights for every sob story from Mexico to pantagonia.
For every sad story there is another one. To provide an option and escape for one guilt story doesn't and will not end others.
As a solution why not advocate blanket automatic nationality US rights for every sob story from Mexico to pantagonia.
9
This isn't Obama's death sentence. This is the death sentence the United States has imposed on countries they deem unworthy on a humanitarian level, yet have exploited to their core. People don't talk about the history of the U.S. in Latin American countries. People focus on affairs in far away countries overseas. People mostly negatively focus on the Latin American "immigration problem," yet nothing is being done to help repair the damage that has been done. People are victims of violence every day. People like my parents sought refuge in this country after living in war torn, violence driven countries where bombs were being dropped, where people who were standing next to them were gunned down. What did the U.S. do? Turn their heads the other way and pretend like it wasn't their problem. There are millions like my parents. People in politics, particularly those in a certain political party need to quit blaming Obama for a mess the United States helped create many generations ago...
2
The US can't take all the people from troubled regions in the world without regard to how it affects America and Americans. Stopping this illegal smuggling of humans is only answer. These minors didn't just find their way to our borders a thousand miles or more from their homes by getting a compass and pointing north. They were delivered to our borders by paid professional smugglers, probably connected to the drug gangs that the author claims will kill them if they are returned. Allowing them to stay will only encourage more people to make this dangerous journey.
15
Really, Nick?
The problem here is deporting illegal immigrants?
Solve the drug trade problem (pick your method) and you will resolve so much more than this.
The problem here is deporting illegal immigrants?
Solve the drug trade problem (pick your method) and you will resolve so much more than this.
2
I can't believe that Mr. Kristof blames President Obama for the problems in Honduras.
I would have Mr. Kristof check his American history and go back to the days of Eisenhower, Dulles, and the United Fruit Company in Honduras, and other Central American Countries.
And while he's at it, check out the term "Banana Republic".
That's where the real problems began thanks to President Eisenhower and the United Fruit Company.
As for Young Refugees, I would have Mr. Kristof incorporate the term "charity begins at home" in his article.
For the bottom 20% of the US population (raised and born in the USA), the poverty levels and conditions are as bad or worse (relatively speaking) to the problems in most poor countries. Poor Sanitation, marginal concerns for the poor (Detroit and lead in the water), lack of jobs for the poor, poor housing, large number of deaths from shootings, high drug consumption, and so on.
For a county like America, it is sad to see the Republicans tearing at her soul, without any care or concern for her poor. The Republicans want to reduce or eliminate Obamacare and reduce benefits to the poor, while simultaneously reducing taxes to the uber-rich.
When America will start to take care of her own poor, then they can worry about the rest of the world!
Mr. Kristof, how about reporting on the tragedy of the poor in America first!
I would have Mr. Kristof check his American history and go back to the days of Eisenhower, Dulles, and the United Fruit Company in Honduras, and other Central American Countries.
And while he's at it, check out the term "Banana Republic".
That's where the real problems began thanks to President Eisenhower and the United Fruit Company.
As for Young Refugees, I would have Mr. Kristof incorporate the term "charity begins at home" in his article.
For the bottom 20% of the US population (raised and born in the USA), the poverty levels and conditions are as bad or worse (relatively speaking) to the problems in most poor countries. Poor Sanitation, marginal concerns for the poor (Detroit and lead in the water), lack of jobs for the poor, poor housing, large number of deaths from shootings, high drug consumption, and so on.
For a county like America, it is sad to see the Republicans tearing at her soul, without any care or concern for her poor. The Republicans want to reduce or eliminate Obamacare and reduce benefits to the poor, while simultaneously reducing taxes to the uber-rich.
When America will start to take care of her own poor, then they can worry about the rest of the world!
Mr. Kristof, how about reporting on the tragedy of the poor in America first!
18
Yes, CristobalL's situation is heart breaking and so is the situation of millions such people in Sudan, Syria, North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Honduras and in many other countries. Though there are solutions that can help such people Mr. Kristof does not suggest any. He makes the readers fill uncomfortable and blames President Obama and President Nieto basically, according to Mr. Kristof, USA is to blame. He does not suggest solutions because he knows that the real solutions are difficult, actually impossible, to implement. The real solution is to change governments and culture in the countries from where these people escape and to do this President Obama will have take steps that are not politically correct and will bring the fury of people like Mr. Kristof. Heart breaking as it is but if the USA will not deport illegal immigrants 100 million people, from Africa, the Middle East, Latin America and even parts of Europe will be knocking on its doors. Ido not see anybody trying to be illegal in Russia, Chania or Japan.
19
President Obama is not responsible for every person around the world. This type of blame mongering about such an esoteric issue serves only to make the author appear relevant. I understand it's difficult to stand out among such able company but next time try to find a new angle on Donald Trump. And pen your worth there.
10
Well you know what sir? That's just tough. Perhaps their parents, their pastors, their leaders should clean up the home grown messes and not expect the hated Yanquis to take care of their problems. If the Mexican government still smarts over having lost territories swiped from them in lost wars, by all means hire the gangs and declare war to reclaim the turf. The unspoken plan of course is to continue on with their gaucho ways, taking payoffs, ignoring the poor, having a billionaire decamp and buy a Yanqui newspaper - ahem - like this one, instead of, say, starting up a crusading local daily to advocate making your country livable. All the while turning a blind eye to the export of their problems to us. Enough is enough. We have been ignored and dismissed for far too long and come November, the arduous cleanup begins. You asked for it.
14
Though a clear improvement compared to its predecessor, Obama's administration has been marked by a number of failures to take clear, firm and obvious actions. This is not such an example, however. A more lenient refugee policy would help save more youngsters from abuse in Central America. But, it would also open possibilities for the new forms and cases of abuse and exploitation.
That is nonetheless no excuse for ducking the challenges associated with child migrants and refugees. Such dilemmas are the price of an unsustainable global population growth rate, unfair global economic inequality, and decades of US foreign policy emphasizing corporate business opportunities, deregulation, and military/security pacts, while largely neglecting education, human rights, and the building/strengthening of democratic institutions in poorer countries.
That is nonetheless no excuse for ducking the challenges associated with child migrants and refugees. Such dilemmas are the price of an unsustainable global population growth rate, unfair global economic inequality, and decades of US foreign policy emphasizing corporate business opportunities, deregulation, and military/security pacts, while largely neglecting education, human rights, and the building/strengthening of democratic institutions in poorer countries.
2
Since we are neglecting our OWN children and people, I see NO reason to spend gobs of money on NONE Americans.
We are not likely to read this on conservative sites and I can't help but think many conservatives would be cheering these actions if it was anyone but Obama.
It is unfortunate, to put it nicely, that the wealthiest, strongest country in the world has consistently ignored its southern neighbors when it comes to long term help. If some of the many billions of dollars we have funneled into the MidEast, to buy political support or foment wars, were used to help the economies of Mexico and Central American countries, we might all be a lot better off.
It is unfortunate, to put it nicely, that the wealthiest, strongest country in the world has consistently ignored its southern neighbors when it comes to long term help. If some of the many billions of dollars we have funneled into the MidEast, to buy political support or foment wars, were used to help the economies of Mexico and Central American countries, we might all be a lot better off.
2
What would happen if some families in the good ole U S of A would agree to
adopt one child who somehow traverses Mexico to get across the Rio Grande?
adopt one child who somehow traverses Mexico to get across the Rio Grande?
Charity begins at home...if Americans feel so inclined, they should adopt American children with needs first...that could make a REAL difference...why are so many people ALWAYS looking outside of the US to help with, when there is so much need right here?
You got the name of the president who's to blame for the young man's plight wrong, Mr. Kristof
The man to blame is Juan Orlando Hernández.
That's the name of the president of Honduras.
The man to blame is Juan Orlando Hernández.
That's the name of the president of Honduras.
26
The Audacity of Hope -- all over again --
Bro Barry took us for a ride...
Bro Barry took us for a ride...
1
That's not the worst of it; the real problem is, we fell for his spiel, hook, line, and sinker, and still, almost eight years after the con, some still try to find silver linings in his tenure.
The answer to whether an administration has worked, for all Americans, is in the question, "Economically, is your life better today, than it was eight years ago". The answer, except for the 1%ter cabal which he and this administration serve, is a resounding NÓ!
The total rejection of "liberty and justice for all", the goal of the elites, has occurred.
Incidentally, the same exists in Europe, and Brexit is the first in a series of events that will bring back equality.
Our corporate masters are trembling.
The answer to whether an administration has worked, for all Americans, is in the question, "Economically, is your life better today, than it was eight years ago". The answer, except for the 1%ter cabal which he and this administration serve, is a resounding NÓ!
The total rejection of "liberty and justice for all", the goal of the elites, has occurred.
Incidentally, the same exists in Europe, and Brexit is the first in a series of events that will bring back equality.
Our corporate masters are trembling.
2
When has working "at the highest levels" ever made the causes of Latin American refugees better?
1
If our government will do nothing, what, if anything, can we do as citizens to help these children?
The situation described by Mr. Kristof certainly merits the label of 'tragedy.' His denunciation of President Obama, however, fails to include that group of unindicted co-conspirators called Congress. That GOP-dominated body's refusal to enact immigration reform, coupled with the SC's decision implicitly blocking the president's attempt to carve out a temporary refuge for some undocumented aliens, have left Obama with few options to deal with the refugee crisis. Kristof urges the President to encourage Mexico and the Central American countries to do more to help the refugees, but, apart from everything else, they lack the resources to resolve the crisis.
Mr. Obama surely shares responsibility for America's failure to deal with these children in a humane manner, but the title of the piece, which depicts him as an executioner, exaggerates his role while silently absolving Congress. Its members have blood on their hands, too.
Mr. Obama surely shares responsibility for America's failure to deal with these children in a humane manner, but the title of the piece, which depicts him as an executioner, exaggerates his role while silently absolving Congress. Its members have blood on their hands, too.
4
Nicholas. Mexico is protecting its southern border by intercepting illegals trying to cross into Mexico from Central America. You twist it around and say that Mexico is doing our dirty work. You would have the U.S. try to solve the world's problems? We have enough of our own to take care of.
14
Rima Regas has it right. Blaming Obama for the terrible choices that are forced on the president by a political system that has ceased to serve even the citizens of this country, is hardly fair.
4
I don't see this the way you do. It seems correct to me that Mexico handle those from Honduras, Guatemala, etc., since they enter over Mexico's border and would have to travel the length of Mexico to get to the U.S. We can't handle everyone's problems. It's practical and correct to have Mexico handle this one.
13
Mr.Kristof;President Obama cannot be everything to the entire world.His first responsibility is to the American people.We have enough on our plate right now as it is.President Obama ,is only one person and as such can only do so much.The world is going to have to learn to solve it's own problems.Sure you somehow have the time to travel the world and point out what others should be doing.Have you ever thought about trying to do some of these tasks that you are expecting the President to do?President Obama is doing the job he was elected to do'Why don't you try minding your own business.
6
It is the GOP and Mr. Trump who have been unwilling to address the complexities of immigration except by shouting "deportation" and "build a wall". President Obama has been attempting for seven years to find a bipartisan approach to the immigration situation - and the Senate reach a compromise that the House rejected.
Yes, there are incredible human tragedies caused by the impasse, but this impasse is because there are difficult policy choices that remain when one political party is opposed to addressing the issue. For the GOP the very words "immigration reform" are a dog whistle that implies decreased political power for whites. "Blocking immigration reform" for the segment of the GOP that supports Trump is a way for them to delay what they perceive is a demographic transition in which America will no longer be great.
Do not blame Obama, blame the leadership for this tragedy.
Yes, there are incredible human tragedies caused by the impasse, but this impasse is because there are difficult policy choices that remain when one political party is opposed to addressing the issue. For the GOP the very words "immigration reform" are a dog whistle that implies decreased political power for whites. "Blocking immigration reform" for the segment of the GOP that supports Trump is a way for them to delay what they perceive is a demographic transition in which America will no longer be great.
Do not blame Obama, blame the leadership for this tragedy.
2
Another passionate plea by Mr. Kristof for what seems right for any civilized country or society. The failure to act on behalf helpless children in this situation is more complicated than say, suddenly and instinctively confronting someone beating a child to death. It is as if, when sprinting to save the child, you are confronted by a bickering mob of self-interested robber barons who, having recently purchased the government, stop you in your tracks. They are the same folks who block other attempts to make progress. I doubt if it is just reluctance on President Obama's part. The two party dictatorship is not working. Would that those who refuse to allow cooperation across the isle for their own selfish monetary reasons be themselves confronted by a vicious street gang one day with no body interested in rescuing them.
1
Please explain which of the Democrats in Congress support immigration control? Please tell us why the WHOLLY Democratic Congress didn't take on immigration issues when they had control of the House and Senate during Obama's first term? Please explain exactly how this is a GOP problem? Bush wanted comprehensive immigration reform, but the Dems blocked it...please explain why the majority of the American people who believe in America first are wrong?
What would he do if there was not a U.S.???
4
When is the Times going to write a sob story about the plight of hungry American children with with unemployed (or under employed) parents, who csnt afford to pay rent because the illegals and migrants have driven down wages and caused higher food prices? Instead we have sob story after sob story trying to justify why illegals should be allowed to stream across our borders at will. The left is naive to think that these people are the only sorts interested in coming here. I think it's also possible that these gangs they're so afraid is, sent them here, to get a foothold and bring the rest of the gang here.
Why is it that these people MUST move to the US? Aren't there safer places to live closer to home? Of course there are, but they don't give hand out after handou
Why is it that these people MUST move to the US? Aren't there safer places to live closer to home? Of course there are, but they don't give hand out after handou
9
Unintended consequences until they appear in plain sight at which point they become intended consequences. They are not spoken of ever.
Are there not laws and/or treaties that the U.S and Mexico may have signed and ratified with the U.N in regards to Human rights or the Treatment of Refugees?
Surely the deportation of minors (or anyone for that matter) whose lives are directly threatened if they are sent back to their countries is an illegal act or if it isn't, it is certainly morally reprehensible.
What makes matters worse in these cases as well as the increasing numbers of people leaving their war ravaged or decimated countries for protection or a better life is the fact that it is often as a result of American actions and policies that have created the conditions or directly been responsible for causing the events or situations that have forced so many from their homes.and countries.
Surely the deportation of minors (or anyone for that matter) whose lives are directly threatened if they are sent back to their countries is an illegal act or if it isn't, it is certainly morally reprehensible.
What makes matters worse in these cases as well as the increasing numbers of people leaving their war ravaged or decimated countries for protection or a better life is the fact that it is often as a result of American actions and policies that have created the conditions or directly been responsible for causing the events or situations that have forced so many from their homes.and countries.
The Supreme Court denies the rights of immigrants to not be deported. How many thousands now face being deported, severing family ties sending mothers' without children; husbands' without wives and children; children without parents. What has happened to this country built on the backs of immigrants? I am ashamed of the US.
2
Why isn't the United States, Mexico, Canada and other countries in the Americas fighting the drug cartels?
Is it because the drug appetite in the US lines the pockets of too many people?
If 3 people from Pennsylvania are arrested in NJ the past week driving through the Holland tunnel attempting to rescue a young woman being held captive by drug dealers, what does this tell you?
Kristoff you always have good intentions, but perhaps one day you will wake up to reality if you care beyond the story....
Is it because the drug appetite in the US lines the pockets of too many people?
If 3 people from Pennsylvania are arrested in NJ the past week driving through the Holland tunnel attempting to rescue a young woman being held captive by drug dealers, what does this tell you?
Kristoff you always have good intentions, but perhaps one day you will wake up to reality if you care beyond the story....
1
Nicholas - I usually understand your columns but this one seems divorced from reality. If the US allows Central American kids to enter our country without their parents they will be at risk (during the journey and in their foster homes) and very expensive. And every arrival will result in 10 more coming north. If we stop them at the southern Mexican border then they either stay in Mexican refugee camps (picture Syrian refugee camps in Turkey) and we pay for them or they are returned to their home countries where they are in danger but with their parents. And what about the children in the Brazilian favelas that are in danger? Can we perhaps help the Central American countries to fight the gangs? There must be another choice.
7
There will always be disturbing stories of people like Carlos, fleeing for his life and hampered by a seemingly cruel political decision. This anecdotal evidence, probably replicated again and again, tells us what we already knew: the system is broken.
Mexico faces three choices, all of them bad: arrest people fleeing the gangs for immediate return, allow refugees to stay in Mexico without knowing if they are there to deal in drugs and violence, or keep a loose eye on the drug refugees as they work their way north to the U.S. border. The third choice, obviously, is the best of a bad lot for Mexico and the worst for the United States.
The United States needs to do better work in El Salvador and Honduras to destroy the drug gangs which apparently run rampant there. This mess also reflects the failure of America to enact meaningful immigration reform and to come to grips with our national drug problem. In the areas of immigration and drug laws, the Republicans on Capitol Hill are probably the biggest culprits.
One may argue the point of responsibility, but it is outrageously unfair for Nicholas Kristof to frame the problem as President Obama’s sole fault. It is a cheap shot to use a column headline like “Obama’s Death Sentence.”
Mexico faces three choices, all of them bad: arrest people fleeing the gangs for immediate return, allow refugees to stay in Mexico without knowing if they are there to deal in drugs and violence, or keep a loose eye on the drug refugees as they work their way north to the U.S. border. The third choice, obviously, is the best of a bad lot for Mexico and the worst for the United States.
The United States needs to do better work in El Salvador and Honduras to destroy the drug gangs which apparently run rampant there. This mess also reflects the failure of America to enact meaningful immigration reform and to come to grips with our national drug problem. In the areas of immigration and drug laws, the Republicans on Capitol Hill are probably the biggest culprits.
One may argue the point of responsibility, but it is outrageously unfair for Nicholas Kristof to frame the problem as President Obama’s sole fault. It is a cheap shot to use a column headline like “Obama’s Death Sentence.”
5
I could not agree more with SDW. And this column WAS a cheap shot.
This article is beyond ridiculous. Stop giving me anecdotal dribble trying to 0lay on my emotions and induce liberal guilt in me. There are like a billion "refugees" in the world all with horrible and compelling stories. America is not responsible for all of them.
Secure our own borders, make sure employers can never hire illegal immigrants. and start letting immigrants who respect our land into our country.
Secure our own borders, make sure employers can never hire illegal immigrants. and start letting immigrants who respect our land into our country.
17
My reaction exactly. I turned to my husband after reading and said, "Poor Obama can't win."
This is a terribly sad story -- but please dont' lay blame for violence in Central America at Obama's feet. That is reprehensible. Even if many of these gangs developed in the US, that does not make any person, government agency, or government leader in the US primarily responsible for those gangs and their continuing crime and violence. Gangs could not develop such a stranglehold on communities in nations which had decent leadership and a decent police and military. Third World nations have tragic Third World problems. As other commenters have said, we cannot solve all the world's problems, and we need to stop playing Savior of the World and attend to working on problems in our own nation. Let people in other countries attend to their problems there, and if the momentum is great enough, perhaps something great can be accomplished in Central America by Central Americans. That story outcome sounds better to me than another version of "Poor Third World nation again asks America for help and handouts". Hasn't anyone at all in Central America, Mexico or South America realized that children need protection from gangs? It boggles the mind to think that a child would have to travel 1500 miles through Mexico before they encounter anyone at all who could protect them. I have to believe there are people below the Southern US border who care.
37
America has blood on its hands. We have overthrown democratically elected leaders in Central/Latin America over the decades and replaced them with oligarchs who have oppressed the people of their country. Yes, we do have a responsibility to keep these 'CHILDREN' out of harm's way! Sorry, but we have been complicit!
Personalizing the tragedy of Latin America by giving it a name, as here, produces sympathy, I admit. But as readers point out, there are millions of nameless people oppressed, maimed, starved, tortured to death by their own governments. Obama did not cause this! Indeed we should stop being a safety valve for failed states, although in Latin America we definitely acted with, and not against, dictators. Read "Cry of the Oppressed" by Peggy Lernoux, events that took place within my own lifetime. Honduras, of course, was the site of United Fruit, which played a huge role in U.S. complicity. Obama had nothing to do with this! And furthermore, not all orphaned children of poverty turn to crime - are we responsible for that too? I don't think so. I do know that our social services, emergency rooms, and classrooms are overwhelmed. Where I live there are 37 children in a primary class. A visiting child from a New England state is in a class of 22. And so on. And the flood of dispossessed will not stop.
27
"Instead, as with Syria, Obama has been disengaged".
That statement describes not only this administrations policy on deportation of people fleeing all manner of dangers, it also unwittingly states what the poor and the middle-class, in this nation, know to be true; our President, as has been the case with several Presidents, for several decades, all have been disengaged when it comes to representing the poor and the middle-class.
Our government exists to insure a problem free existence for the it's owners, the corporations who purchased it, using the wealth stolen from the poor and the middle-class.
The corporate owners of England just discovered their power was an illusion, and the people they ignored finally understood that real sustainable power rests in the hands of the populace; thankfully they used it, and shook the weak foundations of elites all over the world.
Change is barrelling towards us, evidenced in the anger displayed against governments in numerous nations; the United States would do well to open its eyes and ears, and take a leadership role in restoring true government of the people, by and for the people; if the present myopia continues, the anger will boil over and wreak havoc.
That statement describes not only this administrations policy on deportation of people fleeing all manner of dangers, it also unwittingly states what the poor and the middle-class, in this nation, know to be true; our President, as has been the case with several Presidents, for several decades, all have been disengaged when it comes to representing the poor and the middle-class.
Our government exists to insure a problem free existence for the it's owners, the corporations who purchased it, using the wealth stolen from the poor and the middle-class.
The corporate owners of England just discovered their power was an illusion, and the people they ignored finally understood that real sustainable power rests in the hands of the populace; thankfully they used it, and shook the weak foundations of elites all over the world.
Change is barrelling towards us, evidenced in the anger displayed against governments in numerous nations; the United States would do well to open its eyes and ears, and take a leadership role in restoring true government of the people, by and for the people; if the present myopia continues, the anger will boil over and wreak havoc.
16
I am always struck by the energetic defense of a president who permitted his Secretary of State to embrace the overthrow of a democratically-elected government because it made her friends and associates uncomfortable. I am struck by the defense of a president who tolerates a continuing flow of narcotics into this country through the very countries generating the flow of young refugees he then returns to their death. And I am struck by the defense of a president who can look at his daughters living in comfort and security and apparently ignore the reality that their comfort and security a generation from now is bound to Carlos and Cristobal. To Carlos and Cristobal I would suggest they go home and join those gangs emerging from the narcotics trade. Send narcotics to the US to plague the lives of Harvard students and their families. Make common cause with the half-million American citizens deported to Mexico because their families were forced to leave. They have US citizenship, the right to return, and many have a deep anger at the country that rejected them. There are plenty of ways to pay us back and we should anticipate all of them. We have great explanations as to why we turn our backs on these kids but do not expect them to be reasonable and understanding. Go south? South you find Nicaragua, a country ravaged by American aggression when the people rose against a US-supported regime. Thank Ronald Reagan for no southern option, blame Barack Obama for what will come.
8
The definition of a refugee is a person fleeing their native country because of an immediate fear of death or some manner of intense persecution. Since the young man Mr. Kristof is using as his prime example of a refugee, wouldn't it make sense for him to remain in Mexico? He would be much safer than he would have been in his country of Honduras, and the language and culture are similar. Once an individual reaches a country that offers some relative safety, does he not then become something other than a refugee? Moving through Mexico and into the U.S., this individual becomes less and less a refugee, and more and more an individual seeking the better economic future that the U.S. offers. Mr. Kristof should be a bit more honest with the terms he throws around. No, we shouldn't be colluding with Mexico to help them with their problem. Let Mexico keep or return these 'refugees" on their own. Let's spend all our time, money and energy in protecting our own borders.
14
Remain in Mexico? It is every bit as dangerous there, due to the (American-funded-- remember?) drug gangs, and the treatment of immigrants by the Mexican legal system is awful. That is not an option.
Actually, a few do remain in Mexico, mostly Guatemalans. In the south of Mexico, they live illegally and do farm labor, often under awful conditions.
Actually, a few do remain in Mexico, mostly Guatemalans. In the south of Mexico, they live illegally and do farm labor, often under awful conditions.
6
There are lots of countries with terrible oppression and with no chance for a good life for many of their inhabitants. Of course, one has to feel sympathy for their unfortunate citizens. Still, there is no way that substantial numbers of these many millions should be allowed to immigrate to the United States or other advanced countries such as Western Europe. As the Brexit vote demonstrated, people are getting tired of these floods of immigrants who are changing our culture.
Let these people stay home to work to change their own cultures. The United States has enough problems providing decent opportunity and safety for its own citizens. (In fact, many of the U.S. problems have arisen because many U.S. jobs have moved to developing countries.) Sorry we cannot take on all the other problems of the all the developing world as well. The motivation and the fellow feeling is admirable, but fundamentally just as naïve and limited as the decision to invade Iraq. Let developing countries solve their own problems. We cannot solve all the world's problems..
Let these people stay home to work to change their own cultures. The United States has enough problems providing decent opportunity and safety for its own citizens. (In fact, many of the U.S. problems have arisen because many U.S. jobs have moved to developing countries.) Sorry we cannot take on all the other problems of the all the developing world as well. The motivation and the fellow feeling is admirable, but fundamentally just as naïve and limited as the decision to invade Iraq. Let developing countries solve their own problems. We cannot solve all the world's problems..
28
... Sorry we cannot take on all the other problems of the all the developing world as well....
Well, maybe we could give refuge to a few of the children who are likely to be murdered by the drug gangs who hold great wealth and power, and whose wealth and guns come mostly from us? Just a naive, idealistic thought...
Well, maybe we could give refuge to a few of the children who are likely to be murdered by the drug gangs who hold great wealth and power, and whose wealth and guns come mostly from us? Just a naive, idealistic thought...
Would legalizing all drugs make things better? Nobody is getting killed about alcohol. Educate about the true dangers of drugs. Use the money spent on enforcement for education and treatment.
11
"Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that "Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution." The United Nations 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees and the 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees guides national legislation concerning political asylum. Under these agreements, a refugee (or for cases where repressing base means has been applied directly or environmentally to the defoulé refugee) is a person who is outside their own country's territory (or place of habitual residence if stateless) owing to fear of persecution on protected grounds. Protected grounds include race, caste, nationality, religion, political opinions and membership and/or participation in any particular social group or social activities. Rendering true victims of persecution to their persecutor is a particularly odious violation of a principle called non-refoulement, part of the customary and trucial Law of Nations."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_asylum
I don't care if it's Obama violating this or any other country around the world, it's wrong. Is there any way the Hague can put some muscle in it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_asylum
I don't care if it's Obama violating this or any other country around the world, it's wrong. Is there any way the Hague can put some muscle in it?
9
If the government of Honduras were persecuting Carlos, he would be a refugee when he arrived in Mexico. But he is not being persecuted by the government of Honduras and is therefore not entitled to refugee status.
There have been many gang killings in Chicago. Does that mean if a Chicago resident made it to England he would be entitled to refugee status?
The reason the gangs have taken over the Central American countries is because 50% of the working age men are illegally working in the US. If they returned home, they could protect their families.
There have been many gang killings in Chicago. Does that mean if a Chicago resident made it to England he would be entitled to refugee status?
The reason the gangs have taken over the Central American countries is because 50% of the working age men are illegally working in the US. If they returned home, they could protect their families.
17
...If they returned home, they could protect their families....
Not so sure. Some of the ones I have known got killed pretty quickly. "Work for change" is easy for some of us to say as we sit comfortably in our safe homes.
Not so sure. Some of the ones I have known got killed pretty quickly. "Work for change" is easy for some of us to say as we sit comfortably in our safe homes.
And, herein lies the real rub...all these immigrants have NO intention of assimilating in the US, yet also have NO real intention of adding anything of value to this country. They refuse to stand up for their own country yet want us to stand up for them. They are mostly cowards...useless for the future of this country. Send them ALL back
1
They need to say they are fleeing from political oppression instead of the legitimate reasons they are fleeing from. Nevermind the fact that they can return back to their country as much as they want for vacations and family visits. Heck, they can even take a Carnival Cruise back to visit and return to the U.S. and still be a legal resident in a year and a day not to mention all the entitlements they receive for the next five years.
They can call it the Central American Adjustment Act.
They can call it the Central American Adjustment Act.
10
We are responsible for destabilizing governments, for our appetite for drugs and for being the most prolific dealer of deadly weapons on the face of the earth. We must take responsibility for the conditions that we cause elsewhere in the world. Only after we have repaired the damage and prevented future harms will we be morally free to enforce our laws. Until then, we are hypocrites.
22
Considering the fact that our Congress is currently dancing to the tune played by the NRA when it comes to guns and is not able to function enough to have a hearing on a Supreme Court nominee, I don't see this as rising to any level of importance right now. We probably could take in these children but what would happen once they are grown? Would we send them back? Would we let them stay here and bring in their family members? We don't even move quickly to bring in those who helped us in Afghanistan, Iran, or any other country where we've fought. We don't even help our own citizens when they live in unsafe areas and are in danger of being killed for being in the way of a gunfight.
I feel for these children. But I also feel for our own children who are growing up in gang ridden areas in America. Don't our own deserve some help to grow up and become happy productive, and responsible citizens?
I feel for these children. But I also feel for our own children who are growing up in gang ridden areas in America. Don't our own deserve some help to grow up and become happy productive, and responsible citizens?
15
As concerned as I am for humanitarian crises like those that some Latin Americans face, the US cannot run around saving the world every time a life abroad is in danger.
I lean heavily left. My thoughts on how to deal with the huge number of undocumented immigrants is to stop arguing and naturalize all of them immediately so that they can pay into the system and receive its protections, while simultaneously streamlining the process of legal immigration so that all those who can produce a net positive effect on the US economy can be accepted. But while I am fine solving for the legal purgatory under which the some 10-15 million undocumented immigrants currently living in the US suffer, I am not fine inviting more people to jump on board illegally. Border security IS important.
Extreme poverty already haunts many Americans. All things being equal, we do no justice to those suffering within our borders by trying to find the resources for those outside the country.
I lean heavily left. My thoughts on how to deal with the huge number of undocumented immigrants is to stop arguing and naturalize all of them immediately so that they can pay into the system and receive its protections, while simultaneously streamlining the process of legal immigration so that all those who can produce a net positive effect on the US economy can be accepted. But while I am fine solving for the legal purgatory under which the some 10-15 million undocumented immigrants currently living in the US suffer, I am not fine inviting more people to jump on board illegally. Border security IS important.
Extreme poverty already haunts many Americans. All things being equal, we do no justice to those suffering within our borders by trying to find the resources for those outside the country.
24
Evan, did you read Nick's article? Where did he suggest that we should solve the problem by accepting all child migrants no questions asked?
Did you read his report that the U.S. is partly responsible for the children escaping threats of murder from gangs? I admit that he could have explained it more fully, but the gangs that are plaguing entire Central American nations like El Salvador were created in the U.S. and the U.S. eventually deported most of the members to their home countries without any attempt to destroy the organizations themselves. Because of this, these gangs have become a Mafia that threatens to take over entire nations, and these are some of the most brutal gangs on Earth right up there in the murder and mayhem category with Mexico's worst drug cartels.
So, what is Nick suggesting? Most importantly, the U.S. needs to re-engage with the governments of these nations to wipe out the gangs causing all this trouble. Obviously, this will require serious resources and effective cooperation for any progress to be made. However, Obama really does seem unable or unwilling to act (probably mostly the former, given that Congress must allocate the resources).
However, Obama could at least be honest with the American people about what is really going on instead of pretending that he has successfully solved a serious child trafficking problem on our southern border. There is real blood on our hands.
Did you read his report that the U.S. is partly responsible for the children escaping threats of murder from gangs? I admit that he could have explained it more fully, but the gangs that are plaguing entire Central American nations like El Salvador were created in the U.S. and the U.S. eventually deported most of the members to their home countries without any attempt to destroy the organizations themselves. Because of this, these gangs have become a Mafia that threatens to take over entire nations, and these are some of the most brutal gangs on Earth right up there in the murder and mayhem category with Mexico's worst drug cartels.
So, what is Nick suggesting? Most importantly, the U.S. needs to re-engage with the governments of these nations to wipe out the gangs causing all this trouble. Obviously, this will require serious resources and effective cooperation for any progress to be made. However, Obama really does seem unable or unwilling to act (probably mostly the former, given that Congress must allocate the resources).
However, Obama could at least be honest with the American people about what is really going on instead of pretending that he has successfully solved a serious child trafficking problem on our southern border. There is real blood on our hands.
11
Well, Daniel, you're right about Obama. He has never been fully engaged. He imagines because he THINKS IT, it will happen. No clue how to implement, none whatsoever. And does not realize that implementation is 10x harder than thinking up what to do. No plan ever survives contact with reality.
However, what supports the gangs are drugs. The United States population has gone insane about drugs. My state (WA) and CO have made recreational marijuana legal. The deaths on our highways from drug-imparied drivers have subsequently doubled.
There is really only one solution to the drug problem but we will not do it. Which is a pity because it will work. When caught, all dealers, runners, pushers, etc. in the drug trade are summarily executed. No long drawn out appeals. Do drugs, get caught, you're dead. If we had an invading army trying to take over the country, we would fight back and kill as many of the enemy soldiers as possible. Well, we have that enemy army but we refuse to deal with it. Consequently, we will continue to spiral down as a culture.
Then, the Central American drug trade would wither, the government could deal with the remaining gangs, and the children would be safe. Dealing drugs should be death because it is causing untold "innocent" deaths and misery.
And the posters here are absolutely right, we cannot solve the problems of dysfunctional leadership because we cannot solve our own, as the current Presidential candidates amply demonstrate.
However, what supports the gangs are drugs. The United States population has gone insane about drugs. My state (WA) and CO have made recreational marijuana legal. The deaths on our highways from drug-imparied drivers have subsequently doubled.
There is really only one solution to the drug problem but we will not do it. Which is a pity because it will work. When caught, all dealers, runners, pushers, etc. in the drug trade are summarily executed. No long drawn out appeals. Do drugs, get caught, you're dead. If we had an invading army trying to take over the country, we would fight back and kill as many of the enemy soldiers as possible. Well, we have that enemy army but we refuse to deal with it. Consequently, we will continue to spiral down as a culture.
Then, the Central American drug trade would wither, the government could deal with the remaining gangs, and the children would be safe. Dealing drugs should be death because it is causing untold "innocent" deaths and misery.
And the posters here are absolutely right, we cannot solve the problems of dysfunctional leadership because we cannot solve our own, as the current Presidential candidates amply demonstrate.
1
What Kristof writes is true. Those are people fleeing for their lives. Fleeing from gangs who exist because of the drug trade with US and whose power over life and death is built on AMERICAN money. We made them rich, and we bought their guns. And we made Honduras and El Salvador nightmare places for many innocent people.
Should we let those young people in? There should be no question. What I am seeing in some of these comments sickens me.
Should we let those young people in? There should be no question. What I am seeing in some of these comments sickens me.
The nation is unable to serve as home for everyone on the planet about to be murdered.
Those of our citizens concerned with people about to be murdered in foreign countries are encouraged, if they so desire, to go to those countries and protect all the people about to be murdered.
I am having enough difficulty as it is, protecting myself and my loved ones without inviting problems to our communities.
Those of our citizens concerned with people about to be murdered in foreign countries are encouraged, if they so desire, to go to those countries and protect all the people about to be murdered.
I am having enough difficulty as it is, protecting myself and my loved ones without inviting problems to our communities.
40
The headline on this piece "Obama's Death Sentence" makes it impossible to take whatever follows seriously. It is so totally lacking in respect due the first African-American president and a man who I fervently believe will some day be on Mount Rushmore that whatever its content, no sympathy can be elicited. Is it because of Obama's skin color that it's so easy to accuse him of child murder, or is this a pro forma tactic of the loopy left. I wish Mr. Kristof a long and healthy life, but certainly one without me as a reader.
129
Because of his color guilty white liberals give him a free pass, even when he does evil things. Let's drop identity politics and deal with each politician solely on their merits.
1
This article has nothing to do with skin color. I disagree totally with the writers view that we should admit all these refugees but give me a break with your trying to make everything about race. I dislike Obamas policies on immigration and would disagree with them no matter what race or gender he was
1
@ Stephen:
I completely agree that the headline is outrageous and makes the rest of the article believable.
After having read numerous of Mr. Kristof's opinions, and having heard him say to Jon Stewart that the 'liberal' press dominates all others, and that in academia liberals are suppressing the opinions of others, he is actually a loopy conservative sometimes proclaiming to be a 'liberal' when it suits him.
I completely agree that the headline is outrageous and makes the rest of the article believable.
After having read numerous of Mr. Kristof's opinions, and having heard him say to Jon Stewart that the 'liberal' press dominates all others, and that in academia liberals are suppressing the opinions of others, he is actually a loopy conservative sometimes proclaiming to be a 'liberal' when it suits him.
1
Contrary to what you seem to believe, Obama is NOT responsible for the problems of Mexico, Honduras or any other Latin American country. Anyone deported for entering the US illegally should be mindful laws were broken by coming here without proper authorization.
The presence of any illegal comes at a steep cost and hits the pocket of legal residents and citizens who pay taxes. That $86 million was set aside to support people who have no legal basis being here should be looked on as nothing short of amazing.
What happened to people being grateful for the generosity of American contributions rather than chastising for not doing enough? America has its own children dying in the streets that Obama should attend to before making promises to anyone else.
Seems $86 million should first be provided to Americans in need. It's getting a bit tiring listening to how America owes everybody else just because we have functional chaos within our borders in comparison to warlord managed streets to the south.
Laws now seem only to apply to people who pay the taxes while others come here and literally get away with murder and fraud. If "young refuges" result in a death sentence it's hardly because of Obama.
The presence of any illegal comes at a steep cost and hits the pocket of legal residents and citizens who pay taxes. That $86 million was set aside to support people who have no legal basis being here should be looked on as nothing short of amazing.
What happened to people being grateful for the generosity of American contributions rather than chastising for not doing enough? America has its own children dying in the streets that Obama should attend to before making promises to anyone else.
Seems $86 million should first be provided to Americans in need. It's getting a bit tiring listening to how America owes everybody else just because we have functional chaos within our borders in comparison to warlord managed streets to the south.
Laws now seem only to apply to people who pay the taxes while others come here and literally get away with murder and fraud. If "young refuges" result in a death sentence it's hardly because of Obama.
146
In fact Obama IS responsible. Like most Americans you are terribly ignorant, but I can't blame you for that because the facts are not reported by the press. In fact these horrible societies were made that way by our government. The CIA arranges for brutal dictators to take over who will allow American corporations to exploit the population, and the dictators are rewarded with a share of the loot.
In fact Honduras was not always such a horrible society. It became that way after the democratically elected president, Zelaya, was ousted by a coup in 2009. All other Latin American countries demanded his return but H Clinton, the Secretary of State under B Obama, arranged for a phoney election which legitimated the coup. See this:
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/3/11/before_her_assassination_berta_cac...
So actually Mr. Obama is not only turning away these refugees, in violation of international law, but he is very much responsible for the ugly situation they are fleeing from.
In fact Honduras was not always such a horrible society. It became that way after the democratically elected president, Zelaya, was ousted by a coup in 2009. All other Latin American countries demanded his return but H Clinton, the Secretary of State under B Obama, arranged for a phoney election which legitimated the coup. See this:
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/3/11/before_her_assassination_berta_cac...
So actually Mr. Obama is not only turning away these refugees, in violation of international law, but he is very much responsible for the ugly situation they are fleeing from.
11
Thank you, Paul E. I will add:
As to the poster's comment about "illegals" being a great tax burden: In early 2001 the then-INS conducted meetings around the U.S., to encourage "illegals" to prepare for the immigration reform that seemed to be coming. They encouraged the "illegal" to begin paying income taxes, and they did so. Many, many, have been paying every year since then. The totals, of course, reached the billions many years ago. Of course, these folks won't ever get Social Security or Medicare. Their money went into the system. but when it comes out it goes to us. They are supporting us.
So -- who is the parasite?
As to the poster's comment about "illegals" being a great tax burden: In early 2001 the then-INS conducted meetings around the U.S., to encourage "illegals" to prepare for the immigration reform that seemed to be coming. They encouraged the "illegal" to begin paying income taxes, and they did so. Many, many, have been paying every year since then. The totals, of course, reached the billions many years ago. Of course, these folks won't ever get Social Security or Medicare. Their money went into the system. but when it comes out it goes to us. They are supporting us.
So -- who is the parasite?
3
What do you mean by putting quotes around the words young refugees? And I'm sorry, I know there are millions of Americans who feel as you do, but I will never understand how anyone who calls themself American , especially someone who has raised children, could espouse such a heartless, cruel, self-centered point of view.
1
Some black intellectuals argue blacks opposed the crime bill/blame its passage on the "selective hearing" of whites. "Selective hearing" sure sounds like "black lives do not matter"
How else can one possibly explain Rwanda?
The Clinton role in Rwandan genocide/Haitian refugee repatriation to certain death/Ricky Ray Rector execution/expansion of mass incarceration, should have long ago disabused all of us of Clinton nostalgia.
TRANSCRIPT 2 @ 53:43 min
http://www.c-span.org/video/?200332-1/book-discussion-unbroken-agony
Randall Robinson:
"One of the great difficulties with democracy is that you seldom know enough about the people you are voting for and politics is so much a performance art that if you have great public skills, you can dazzle people.
I think the most gifted I've seen in my lifetime is Bill Clinton. I think he's a genius in that regard and I think he believes in absolutely nothing and he—
Everybody, to our enduring chagrin, talks about how the black community loves him and I have always wondered, "For God in heaven, what for?"
He plays the saxophone and he sings gospel, but he virtually destroyed the banana industry in the Caribbean almost single-handedly.
Because Chiquita Banana had given him a lot of money, he was willing to do their bidding destroying the economy of these places.
We had farmers in St. Vincent committing suicide because the Clinton Administration had destroyed the livelihood of these farmers.
So I hugely distrust Senator Clinton."
How else can one possibly explain Rwanda?
The Clinton role in Rwandan genocide/Haitian refugee repatriation to certain death/Ricky Ray Rector execution/expansion of mass incarceration, should have long ago disabused all of us of Clinton nostalgia.
TRANSCRIPT 2 @ 53:43 min
http://www.c-span.org/video/?200332-1/book-discussion-unbroken-agony
Randall Robinson:
"One of the great difficulties with democracy is that you seldom know enough about the people you are voting for and politics is so much a performance art that if you have great public skills, you can dazzle people.
I think the most gifted I've seen in my lifetime is Bill Clinton. I think he's a genius in that regard and I think he believes in absolutely nothing and he—
Everybody, to our enduring chagrin, talks about how the black community loves him and I have always wondered, "For God in heaven, what for?"
He plays the saxophone and he sings gospel, but he virtually destroyed the banana industry in the Caribbean almost single-handedly.
Because Chiquita Banana had given him a lot of money, he was willing to do their bidding destroying the economy of these places.
We had farmers in St. Vincent committing suicide because the Clinton Administration had destroyed the livelihood of these farmers.
So I hugely distrust Senator Clinton."
15
Of course President Obama is a very impressive speaker too. He first got noticed for a killer keynote speech about his attitude to race relations at a Dem convention. While Clinton is great at charming black people Obama is great at charming many white people. He comes across as deeply moral and compassionate. Unfortunately he seldom practices what he preaches.
10
Chiquita banana existed before President Clinton was born! And US multinational companies have been raping central American countries for generations.
The point isn't about Chiquita. It's about the Clintons.
"It may be true that the law cannot make a man love me, but it can keep him from lynching me…"
Tragically, the logic of this pronouncement by MLK would, in short order, be refuted by reality of his own lynching. King's hope was misplaced & his reasoning was circular. The resultant rule of law relied on by King presumed an adherence to the rule of law in first instance.
Adherence to the rule of law is not something associated w/ the Clintons. Moreover, racial/ethnic disrespect, intimidation, exploitation & hate have always been a Clinton tactic & the reflexive use the "N"-word & other racial/ethnic slurs, part of Clinton lexicon. When the "1st black pres" & his wife ran AR, NAACP sued them for intimidating blacks at the polls.
When deconstructing reflexive black support for Clintons, Randall Robinson asked: "For God in heaven, what for?"
Some black intellectuals argue blacks opposed crime bill/blame its passage on the "selective hearing" of whites. "Selective hearing" sure sounds like "black lives do not matter"
How else can one possibly explain Rwanda?
http://political-documentation.blogspot.com/2016/06/the-clintons-and-rwa...
The Clinton role in Rwandan genocide/Haitian refugee repatriation to certain death/Ricky Ray Rector execution/expansion of mass incarceration, should have long ago disabused all of us of Clinton nostalgia.
"It may be true that the law cannot make a man love me, but it can keep him from lynching me…"
Tragically, the logic of this pronouncement by MLK would, in short order, be refuted by reality of his own lynching. King's hope was misplaced & his reasoning was circular. The resultant rule of law relied on by King presumed an adherence to the rule of law in first instance.
Adherence to the rule of law is not something associated w/ the Clintons. Moreover, racial/ethnic disrespect, intimidation, exploitation & hate have always been a Clinton tactic & the reflexive use the "N"-word & other racial/ethnic slurs, part of Clinton lexicon. When the "1st black pres" & his wife ran AR, NAACP sued them for intimidating blacks at the polls.
When deconstructing reflexive black support for Clintons, Randall Robinson asked: "For God in heaven, what for?"
Some black intellectuals argue blacks opposed crime bill/blame its passage on the "selective hearing" of whites. "Selective hearing" sure sounds like "black lives do not matter"
How else can one possibly explain Rwanda?
http://political-documentation.blogspot.com/2016/06/the-clintons-and-rwa...
The Clinton role in Rwandan genocide/Haitian refugee repatriation to certain death/Ricky Ray Rector execution/expansion of mass incarceration, should have long ago disabused all of us of Clinton nostalgia.
The absolute corruption and endless greed of the 1% prevents the US from taking responsibility for decades of meddling in the affairs of countries south of the border and supporting fascist dictators at the behest of corporate interests.
24
Yep, all true...but, what is also true is that in the history of humankind, NO one has been able to wrest monies from the 1%ers, so to continue to use them as straw men is useless and planning around their contributions ALWAYS end up with the middle class paying more and the middle class has NO more to give
The world is full of horrible, brutal, violent societies. We can save lives by accepting refugees from these societies, but these societies have a bottomless capacity to supply lives that need to be saved. Where does it stop? Add to this the fig leaf that's been wrapped around our economy of illegal immigration. Add to THAT the system of legalized immigration that exists for no other reason than to drive down wages for American workers.
I feel like the elites in New York and DC won't stop until we have de facto open borders and the concept of citizenship has been rendered obsolete, until we devolve into becoming the same societies the refugees are escaping. I feel like the elites in New York and DC won't stop until the last highly paid, highly skilled American worker has been rendered obsolete.
I'm doing well for myself, thank goodness, but that's only because I'm a hyper-achiever in my field. I am no role model for a sustainable existence.
The political malaise in the West can be traced to its citizens' entirely rational desire not to be weeded out by the Darwinian forces of globalization being unleashed upon them. They'd like to put their own children ahead of Honduras and Syria's children, if they even feel secure enough to HAVE children.
I think Brexit is like leaping out of the frying pan and into the fire. I believe Donald Trump is a con artist. But can you blame people?
I can't. Go ahead and blame me for over-reacting. I'm happy to come across as a bad person.
I feel like the elites in New York and DC won't stop until we have de facto open borders and the concept of citizenship has been rendered obsolete, until we devolve into becoming the same societies the refugees are escaping. I feel like the elites in New York and DC won't stop until the last highly paid, highly skilled American worker has been rendered obsolete.
I'm doing well for myself, thank goodness, but that's only because I'm a hyper-achiever in my field. I am no role model for a sustainable existence.
The political malaise in the West can be traced to its citizens' entirely rational desire not to be weeded out by the Darwinian forces of globalization being unleashed upon them. They'd like to put their own children ahead of Honduras and Syria's children, if they even feel secure enough to HAVE children.
I think Brexit is like leaping out of the frying pan and into the fire. I believe Donald Trump is a con artist. But can you blame people?
I can't. Go ahead and blame me for over-reacting. I'm happy to come across as a bad person.
122
Having just come across as a bad person, I also happen to be a firm believer in immigration, in an immigration system that is expansive and efficient and takes in people from all corners of the world who aspire to put down roots here. And I believe that system should include a fair number of refugees.
But I also know from second-hand experience here in affluent Seattle that it's not an easy thing taking in even a small number of refugees from the most troubled places, and I shudder to think what these people's fates would be if not for the unmentioned efforts of underpaid social workers and unpaid community members. It's a lot easier to complain that we don't take in enough refugees than it is to actually take in more refugees.
But that's not what pushed my buttons about this column. It's the gall of Nicholas Kristof to present the plight of these Central American children in such starkly oversimplified moral terms, as if he were scolding President Obama for not accepting a kidnapper's ransom.
You know what, it's not even that. It's that for all his trips all over the world, this column suggests that Mr. Kristof has no perspective about our place in the world, or about the effects that different sovereign states have on each other, intended or not. And in times like these where globalization is having all kinds of human and environmental impacts across the globe, it would be nice if our intelligentsia did have some perspective on such things.
But I also know from second-hand experience here in affluent Seattle that it's not an easy thing taking in even a small number of refugees from the most troubled places, and I shudder to think what these people's fates would be if not for the unmentioned efforts of underpaid social workers and unpaid community members. It's a lot easier to complain that we don't take in enough refugees than it is to actually take in more refugees.
But that's not what pushed my buttons about this column. It's the gall of Nicholas Kristof to present the plight of these Central American children in such starkly oversimplified moral terms, as if he were scolding President Obama for not accepting a kidnapper's ransom.
You know what, it's not even that. It's that for all his trips all over the world, this column suggests that Mr. Kristof has no perspective about our place in the world, or about the effects that different sovereign states have on each other, intended or not. And in times like these where globalization is having all kinds of human and environmental impacts across the globe, it would be nice if our intelligentsia did have some perspective on such things.
45
Thank you for your honest and detailed response to this moralistic op-ed (again) from Kristof. At least
he didn't imply if you don't agree with him you are
most likely a racist or xenophobic . Most of the
editorials lately label one as xenophobic (which in fact, means intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries) even if you are raising objections to illegal immigration based solely in economic terms. That and being labeled a racist
which implies you are "a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another" because you
question the cost of unlimited and uncontrolled illegal immigration. It gets to the point of ridiculous
accusations by so-called liberals who are unwilling to consider the point of view of concerned citizens
who are struggling economically themselves.
he didn't imply if you don't agree with him you are
most likely a racist or xenophobic . Most of the
editorials lately label one as xenophobic (which in fact, means intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries) even if you are raising objections to illegal immigration based solely in economic terms. That and being labeled a racist
which implies you are "a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another" because you
question the cost of unlimited and uncontrolled illegal immigration. It gets to the point of ridiculous
accusations by so-called liberals who are unwilling to consider the point of view of concerned citizens
who are struggling economically themselves.
3
Thank you and well said. I have friends and family calling me the most heinous names for supporting Trump...some have stopped being my friends. I try and tell them that I do NOT like Mr. Trump...NOR do I think he has all the right answers, BUT, what he is saying is that the American people are unhappy and NO one in either political party is speaking up for them and their issues. Hillary seems to hate Americans and the American way and wants to flood this country with people who hate us and want to destroy us...what choice do Americans have...it's Trump or No more America
2
The gang phemomemon in Central Ameruca is a US export.
The US created the gang phenomenon in Central America (principally El Salvador) by deporting juveniles who had grown up in the US but who were convicted of crimes and so, deported. Many of these kids had no memory of El Salvador and no family members there, no contacts, no resources. The deported kids only survival network were other deported kids - many of these were affiliated with one or another gang in L.A., or D.C. In essence, the US deported US street gangs to El Salvador by deporting these kids. This is just another dimension of the cynicism with which US administrations of both parties have gravely undermined civil society in these small nations.
The US created the gang phenomenon in Central America (principally El Salvador) by deporting juveniles who had grown up in the US but who were convicted of crimes and so, deported. Many of these kids had no memory of El Salvador and no family members there, no contacts, no resources. The deported kids only survival network were other deported kids - many of these were affiliated with one or another gang in L.A., or D.C. In essence, the US deported US street gangs to El Salvador by deporting these kids. This is just another dimension of the cynicism with which US administrations of both parties have gravely undermined civil society in these small nations.
26
You conveniently omit the fact that the US has every right to deport foreign nationals after they serve time for crimes committed in the US.
These "kids" as they are so innocently described, were deported for repeated and severe crimes against other humans, and I would really like to see a source for the notion that they had no family and no contacts whatsoever in the countries they were deported back to. And these "kids" had no choice but to join murderous gangs? And that is somehow our fault? Where and when will our self-loathing end?
3
Could you define more clearly what you mean by "grown up in the U.S."?
Nick, you write this stuff that's redolent of a plea by Sally Struthers on TV to "save the children" but then you turn around and attend Davos and sing the praises of "free" trade and other economic policies that are at the very root of so much of the trouble and misery in what some people call the "periphery" countries.
It would be great if Honduras could begin developing infant industries that grow into larger ones and provide people there with stable, long-term, well-paying employment. Supporting policies that slash tariffs and other protectionist barriers will never, ever get Honduras to that point. In the 1950s and 1960s, leaders in exceptional countries such as Japan and then South Korea (which explicitly followed everything Japan did first) understood this point better than almost anybody.
It would be great if Honduras could begin developing infant industries that grow into larger ones and provide people there with stable, long-term, well-paying employment. Supporting policies that slash tariffs and other protectionist barriers will never, ever get Honduras to that point. In the 1950s and 1960s, leaders in exceptional countries such as Japan and then South Korea (which explicitly followed everything Japan did first) understood this point better than almost anybody.
112
Kristof wrote, "The Central American street gangs were born in the United States and traveled with deportees to countries like El Salvador."
I can imagine there is some basis in truth to this, or he would not have written it. But would Mr. Kristof please provide some details for this statement. How is it the U.S.' responsibility for what a foreign nation allows to happen within its own borders? The U.S. may be able to assist other nations, but universal corruption has seemed to demonstrate that such efforts are futile. Ultimately the nation with the problem needs to be the one that solves the problem.
I can imagine there is some basis in truth to this, or he would not have written it. But would Mr. Kristof please provide some details for this statement. How is it the U.S.' responsibility for what a foreign nation allows to happen within its own borders? The U.S. may be able to assist other nations, but universal corruption has seemed to demonstrate that such efforts are futile. Ultimately the nation with the problem needs to be the one that solves the problem.
21
" universal corruption has seemed to demonstrate that such efforts are futile"
It would appear that anything which involves politics invariably also involves corruption.
It would appear that anything which involves politics invariably also involves corruption.
5
The flood of Central Americans to the US began with the Reagan years, while he was supporting military governments "in our own backyards." Many of these asylum seekers ended up in street gangs in Los Angeles. Later on, they were deported to their countries. Had Reagan not intervened by sending military aid to Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador, thus preventing real democracy to take place in Central America, we wouldn't be having this influx of terrified children.
85
"The Central American street gangs were born in the United States .... please provide some details for this statement."
It's fairly well-known history. Just google "history of MS-13" or "history of Calle 18."
"the nation with the problem needs to be the one that solves the problem."
Who is sustaining these gangs by buying illegal drugs? Who propped up murderous dictators for decades? Whose agricultural infrastructure is consciously organized around exploitation of workers who have few legal rights because of their immigration status? Arguably WE are the nation with the problem.
It's fairly well-known history. Just google "history of MS-13" or "history of Calle 18."
"the nation with the problem needs to be the one that solves the problem."
Who is sustaining these gangs by buying illegal drugs? Who propped up murderous dictators for decades? Whose agricultural infrastructure is consciously organized around exploitation of workers who have few legal rights because of their immigration status? Arguably WE are the nation with the problem.
3
at the risk of sounding heartless, America simply can not
be responsible for every tragic situation in the world.
we are among the most generous people on earth,
but there must a line drawn somewhere.
Carlos's story, as tragic as it is, is one of thousands.
Mexico has been taking advantage of us for decades
and it is time we let them solve their own problems.
America must solve our own first.
be responsible for every tragic situation in the world.
we are among the most generous people on earth,
but there must a line drawn somewhere.
Carlos's story, as tragic as it is, is one of thousands.
Mexico has been taking advantage of us for decades
and it is time we let them solve their own problems.
America must solve our own first.
187
Don't forget the Reagan years and the havoc it created in Central America!
1
It might be easier to agree with your comment were it not for the history of the US screwing up most of these countries in the last 50 years. The US supported the military dictatorship in Guatamala while,it teied to wipe out its indigenous population. Go google the term "El Mozote" and El Salvador. The Salvadoran military, with the backing of the Reagon administration, wiped out a ful village as part of their goal of irradicating "the communists" who existed mostly in their imagination. The US and its drug problem have been some of the worst things to hit the Central American countries. Ya know the policy you read in most stores? You broke it, you bought it? Well past American policies have seriously broken the Central American region and the take steps to,save the lives of 20,000 children for sure death is an absolutely minuscule cost considering that any Cuban kid who,steps foot on American soil is treated like a prince.
Yes, it is, indeed, heartless to turn our backs on a situation that we helped create. America's problem is an ignorant citizenry that remains oblivious to our nation's role in creating this horrific tragedy! These children are growing up traumatized, and poverty stricken. This is an international tragedy!
The last thing I want to do is sentence any child to death.
.
But I also don't want to see us become responsible for hundreds of thousands of poor children fleeing from other countries, when we have so many kids here leading lives of despair.
The majority of kids in NYC public schools are not proficient in English or math. Tens of thousands of kids in NYC alone are homeless.
We have not been able to solve all the problems these kids face, let alone give them a bright future.
.
But I also don't want to see us become responsible for hundreds of thousands of poor children fleeing from other countries, when we have so many kids here leading lives of despair.
The majority of kids in NYC public schools are not proficient in English or math. Tens of thousands of kids in NYC alone are homeless.
We have not been able to solve all the problems these kids face, let alone give them a bright future.
274
Why did this young man not go south, where he at least speaks the language? There are at least 10 countries to the south of Honduras. Why is the U.S. in charge of "refugees" from all over the world? These are economic migrants, no more, no less. And the last thing we need is more untrained, uneducated economic migrants.
246
Yes, Donald. And the years of our military involvement in Central America have nothing to do with the region's poverty and violence?
Avocats, I can answer that! We share some responsibility because it is our insatiable appetite for illegal drugs that finances the drug cartels that produce these refugees. That being said, I can't condemn President Obama as Mr. Kristoff has done. He is literally stuck between a rock and a hard place.
"These are ECONOMIC migrants, no more, no less."
This statement bends the word and the truths behind them.
There is reasonable evidence that vicious gangs do sometimes forcefully recruit, threaten, and even murder young males who refuse to accept gang life. For a young man who finds himself facing what would make any of us cringe and despair, dismissing and reducing such an egregious predicament to an "economic" mess may just miss the point as he tries to avoid his own murder or those of family members. Far, far more than economic to him and them. Maybe your definition goes beyond mine.
This statement bends the word and the truths behind them.
There is reasonable evidence that vicious gangs do sometimes forcefully recruit, threaten, and even murder young males who refuse to accept gang life. For a young man who finds himself facing what would make any of us cringe and despair, dismissing and reducing such an egregious predicament to an "economic" mess may just miss the point as he tries to avoid his own murder or those of family members. Far, far more than economic to him and them. Maybe your definition goes beyond mine.
1
Why stop with just Central America? There are billions of people living life in danger, do we have unlimited empathy for everyone? We overpopulated our world by largely exploiting fossil fuels, never once has humanity thought of living sustainably. What's going to happen when our earth has 10 billion souls? 20 billion? Boy I'm glad I won't live to see it. Dead oceans, factory farms and the 0.1%
180
I agree, but you don't go far enough. The US was on the side of the repressive government that killed and maimed huge numbers of its citizens and sent nearly a fifth of the population fleeing the war and repression. The gangs were created from those refugees and their children who were then sent back into a country decimated by war. Although we spent huge sums to help create the war, we provided nothing much beyond youth criminalized in our country when peace came. Like Pilate, we washed our hands while the slaughter continues.
27
Kristof meant good, but he thought too small; in fact, all the immigrant advocates are.
There are countries all around the world that are becoming increasingly dysfunctional. As compassionate as we want to be it is not realistic for the more stable first world countries to take in everybody from these dysfunctional countries who want come. When the poor of the first world are pitted against the new migrants, what ill happen instead is Trump and Brexit.
The larger strategy is to address the global hoarding of wealth by the global 1%. Where poverty is severe and rampant, so will crimes be. As much as disparity of income is happening here in the United States, it is worse in some third world countries, to a point where life is unliveable for masses of majority.
Who are in better position to advocate for more equitable societies globally than us in the first world?
There are countries all around the world that are becoming increasingly dysfunctional. As compassionate as we want to be it is not realistic for the more stable first world countries to take in everybody from these dysfunctional countries who want come. When the poor of the first world are pitted against the new migrants, what ill happen instead is Trump and Brexit.
The larger strategy is to address the global hoarding of wealth by the global 1%. Where poverty is severe and rampant, so will crimes be. As much as disparity of income is happening here in the United States, it is worse in some third world countries, to a point where life is unliveable for masses of majority.
Who are in better position to advocate for more equitable societies globally than us in the first world?
92
Agreed. And the other major issue to address is global overpopulation
2
I absolutely agree that the U.S. needs to work with the governments of Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala to address this refugee problem- and that means spending money, which would otherwise be spent on additional border security and on building Donald Trump's "beautiful" wall. On the other hand, why is it that these kids who allege to be fleeing gang violence always seem to be heading north? What happens to them if they go the other way- to Nicaragua, Panama, and the supposedly idyllic Costa Rica? I suspect that more vetting needs to be done here, by Mr. Kristof as well as by the U.S. and Mexican governments. We should open our hearts and our wallets to those kids who are genuinely in danger of losing their lives. Opening our borders so wide as to admit all of them is not, however, feasible.
80
What is it makes South Americian governments so consistently corrupt ? Why do their citizens passively tolerate it ? Is it because they can send their poorest to the US ? Are we a relief valve that cruelly lessens the risk of revolution ?
We are fools to accept the steady flow of their least capable and most poorly educated citizens. This deepens the poverty of our poorest citizens and drains their social safety net. Meanwhile, our corporations send our remaining low skill, but good wage jobs to Mexico.
when Illegals flow into our country, they are forced by circumstance and lack of skills to take the bottom tier of jobs in our workforce. It is folly to believe that they do not force our many of our poorest citizens into unemployment.
Donald Trump is a monster, but he is right to ask that we look out after our own first. Hillary will do nothing concrete to stop this cycle.
We are fools to accept the steady flow of their least capable and most poorly educated citizens. This deepens the poverty of our poorest citizens and drains their social safety net. Meanwhile, our corporations send our remaining low skill, but good wage jobs to Mexico.
when Illegals flow into our country, they are forced by circumstance and lack of skills to take the bottom tier of jobs in our workforce. It is folly to believe that they do not force our many of our poorest citizens into unemployment.
Donald Trump is a monster, but he is right to ask that we look out after our own first. Hillary will do nothing concrete to stop this cycle.
80
Well said...you are 100% correct.
Could the insatiable appetite of citizens of the US for drugs have anything to do with the violence and instability of Central America?
1
Really? What about a whole century of military take overs in Central America sponsored by the US, to "protect our economic interests? Pleae, learn your history!
When our words do not match effective action to prevent injustice, perhaps due to a rigid idea of 'self-congratulatory protective isolation', we are seen as hypocrites if it is in our power to make a difference...but show indifference and look the other way. Case in point, now, with victims escaping certain death from drug gangs? It sure looks like it. If we do not muster the will to help, how could we even talk about courage, and the forgotten 'golden rule'? Callous? you be the judge; but our inaction may be a form of violence as well, even if institutionalized, as we humans toe the line.
5
Illegal immigration generates sad stories here and elsewhere. Consider, for example, what our British friends as well as some of their EU compatriots [story pre-Brexit] are contemplating: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29799473 “ . . . The UK would not support future search and rescue operations to prevent migrants drowning in the Mediterranean Sea, the Foreign Office has said.
“Foreign Office minister Baroness Anelay has said such operations can encourage more people to attempt to make the dangerous sea crossing to enter Europe . ..” [A familiar albeit unheeded observation re less than dangerous border crossings, here in the U.S.]
Only if a plan that includes the relatively benign provision for temporary legalization of "successful" illegal immigrants, followed by mandated self-deportation enforced by E-Verification,is signed into law, will there be any hope for a solution to the problems posed by illegal immigration --any favorable treatment of "successful" illegal residents will not only perpetuate the very real problems posed by continued presence of uncounted millions of illegal immigrants, but also encourage all would-be emulators
“Foreign Office minister Baroness Anelay has said such operations can encourage more people to attempt to make the dangerous sea crossing to enter Europe . ..” [A familiar albeit unheeded observation re less than dangerous border crossings, here in the U.S.]
Only if a plan that includes the relatively benign provision for temporary legalization of "successful" illegal immigrants, followed by mandated self-deportation enforced by E-Verification,is signed into law, will there be any hope for a solution to the problems posed by illegal immigration --any favorable treatment of "successful" illegal residents will not only perpetuate the very real problems posed by continued presence of uncounted millions of illegal immigrants, but also encourage all would-be emulators
10
Look at how successful Australia has been at keeping immigrants/refugees out of their country. The UN has called it "inhumane treatment" BUT, almost NO refugees continue to make the dangerous crossing anymore because word got out that they will NOT be welcomed. This MUST be the future for both the EU and the US or more will come and NO real solutions will be sought
5
Don't blame the refugees for their own plight.
Blame Chiquita Brands International (formerly United Fruit).
It was for United Fruit that the CIA staged its coup in Guatemala, condemning that once-thriving democracy to a permanent hell of poverty, corruption and violence.
And in 2009, a coup (led by a graduate of the Fort Benning, GA-based School of the Americas) ousted progressive Honduran President Manuel Zelaya. He'd threatened US-based corporations with a 60% increase in the minimum wage, subsidies for small farmers, free education and meals for poor kids, and free electricity for households that couldn't afford it. The country's poverty rate immediately went down by 10%.
The Obama administration refused to call it a coup. I wonder if Chiquita's representation by former Atty Gen. Eric Holder's law firm, Covington & Burling, had anything to do with it. Or maybe it was Clinton lawyer and campaign adviser Lanny Davis becoming a paid adviser to the new coup government while Hillary Clinton served as secretary of state.
This is an important essay. It should make it harder for Democrats to hurl their invective at Trump's more upfront xenophobia. The hypocrisy knows no bounds.
The refugee crisis benefits the plutocracy, by dividing and conquering people. Pit struggling US citizens against poor migrants, and the global disaster capitalists grow ever richer, coldly and gleefully flicking the blood away from their violent little hands.
http://kmgarcia2000.blogspot.com/
Blame Chiquita Brands International (formerly United Fruit).
It was for United Fruit that the CIA staged its coup in Guatemala, condemning that once-thriving democracy to a permanent hell of poverty, corruption and violence.
And in 2009, a coup (led by a graduate of the Fort Benning, GA-based School of the Americas) ousted progressive Honduran President Manuel Zelaya. He'd threatened US-based corporations with a 60% increase in the minimum wage, subsidies for small farmers, free education and meals for poor kids, and free electricity for households that couldn't afford it. The country's poverty rate immediately went down by 10%.
The Obama administration refused to call it a coup. I wonder if Chiquita's representation by former Atty Gen. Eric Holder's law firm, Covington & Burling, had anything to do with it. Or maybe it was Clinton lawyer and campaign adviser Lanny Davis becoming a paid adviser to the new coup government while Hillary Clinton served as secretary of state.
This is an important essay. It should make it harder for Democrats to hurl their invective at Trump's more upfront xenophobia. The hypocrisy knows no bounds.
The refugee crisis benefits the plutocracy, by dividing and conquering people. Pit struggling US citizens against poor migrants, and the global disaster capitalists grow ever richer, coldly and gleefully flicking the blood away from their violent little hands.
http://kmgarcia2000.blogspot.com/
76
Well said, sister! If only the majority of US citizens, including many of today's respondents, knew their truculent history as well as you!
Most readers believe you mean well and truly care about the children fleeing Central America. But then you write:
"So what should the U.S. do? Most important, it must work at the highest levels with Honduras and El Salvador to address the chaos in those countries, particularly because the U.S. bears some responsibility for the problems: The Central American street gangs were born in the United States and traveled with deportees to countries like El Salvador."
That's it? Are you assuming none of it is taking place? Why did Joe Biden go to these countries?
How about the genocidal wars during the 1980s in Central America, the rampant corruption and exploitation of their peoples by oligarchs supported by global capital. El Salvador and Honduras are essentially failed states. Guatemalans continue to be ruled by regimes grounded on white supremacist policies against its indigenous population.
Americans interested in adopting children from these countries are systematically discouraged. Americans demanded the president enforce our immigration laws, including the William Wilberforce anti-trafficking law re-authorized by George W. Bush.
It requires humane treatment, including medical screenings, positive identification, and sheltering to unaccompanied minors seeking refuge. But when Obama's Niños began arriving at the border and needed to be sheltered no one wanted them.
So you are right that we, Americans, can do more. But do we care enough to do so?
"So what should the U.S. do? Most important, it must work at the highest levels with Honduras and El Salvador to address the chaos in those countries, particularly because the U.S. bears some responsibility for the problems: The Central American street gangs were born in the United States and traveled with deportees to countries like El Salvador."
That's it? Are you assuming none of it is taking place? Why did Joe Biden go to these countries?
How about the genocidal wars during the 1980s in Central America, the rampant corruption and exploitation of their peoples by oligarchs supported by global capital. El Salvador and Honduras are essentially failed states. Guatemalans continue to be ruled by regimes grounded on white supremacist policies against its indigenous population.
Americans interested in adopting children from these countries are systematically discouraged. Americans demanded the president enforce our immigration laws, including the William Wilberforce anti-trafficking law re-authorized by George W. Bush.
It requires humane treatment, including medical screenings, positive identification, and sheltering to unaccompanied minors seeking refuge. But when Obama's Niños began arriving at the border and needed to be sheltered no one wanted them.
So you are right that we, Americans, can do more. But do we care enough to do so?
21
At 32 degrees fahrenheit ( 0 degrees centigrade ), water can exist as either ice or liquid, depending on the direction of the flow of heat. The blood flowing through the heart of the Republican party is losing, not gaining BTU's. Cristobal and Carlos have neither friend nor voice nor attentive listener in those quarters.
In response to Mr. Luettgen, a sane drug policy would go a long way to undermining the profit incentive that drives the trade in Central and South America.
But then, with Republicans in the driver's seat of 2 out of 3 seats of American government, rest assured adding the third will not make that happen.
In response to Mr. Luettgen, a sane drug policy would go a long way to undermining the profit incentive that drives the trade in Central and South America.
But then, with Republicans in the driver's seat of 2 out of 3 seats of American government, rest assured adding the third will not make that happen.
21
It's good that Kristof is calling out Obama on the hypocrisy of expressing lofty sentiments in speeches while his administration does the dirty work on a day to day basis, both on its own and in collaboration with nasty regimes in other countries.
However, I don't understand why Kristof has to make a bow in the direction of Obama's fine words: "I admire much about the Obama administration, including its fine words about refugees, but this policy is rank with deadly hypocrisy." Is this to preserve his liberal credentials? To placate the Times editors and owners?
Why should anyone admire fine words when they mostly serve as cover for policies and practices that are pretty much the opposite of the fine words?
I've observed that most of the reader comments on recent articles about immigration policy are anti-immigrant. This is no doubt partly due to the economic stresses and insecurities faced by many people, and how easy it is to scapegoat illegal immigrants. However, it is also due to the many policies and practices of the ruling elites in Washington (Democratic and Republican) who support, encourage or allow corporations to move U.S. jobs to low-wage countries, and who ignore the deep economic pain that is spreading like a disease throughout the U.S.
This pain will tend to be expressed in reactionary politics if the liberal elites continue to ignore or minimize it, or offer more of the same.
However, I don't understand why Kristof has to make a bow in the direction of Obama's fine words: "I admire much about the Obama administration, including its fine words about refugees, but this policy is rank with deadly hypocrisy." Is this to preserve his liberal credentials? To placate the Times editors and owners?
Why should anyone admire fine words when they mostly serve as cover for policies and practices that are pretty much the opposite of the fine words?
I've observed that most of the reader comments on recent articles about immigration policy are anti-immigrant. This is no doubt partly due to the economic stresses and insecurities faced by many people, and how easy it is to scapegoat illegal immigrants. However, it is also due to the many policies and practices of the ruling elites in Washington (Democratic and Republican) who support, encourage or allow corporations to move U.S. jobs to low-wage countries, and who ignore the deep economic pain that is spreading like a disease throughout the U.S.
This pain will tend to be expressed in reactionary politics if the liberal elites continue to ignore or minimize it, or offer more of the same.
17
Mr. Kristof, you are right this is a nasty situation. You know as well as anybody that there are many communities and individuals in the US ready to assimilate these unaccompanied minor refugees and care for them. Plenty of these communities stateside are not under the control of MS13 and dies y ocho, although some are. The calculus of these kiddos' parents is that ANYTHING, even jumping freights and climbing barbed wire in the desert, is safer than staying home.
But you also know the strength of the opposition to an open-border policy for these people.
I know a little about the situation in El Salvador. Your suggestion that the US cooperate "at the highest levels" there is entirely unworkable. For one thing, the elected government can't do much about the gang violence, and not for want of trying.
For another thing, the government of El Salvador is rightly reluctant to solicit any sort of assistance from the US. Their reluctance is a legacy of the civil war in the 1980s. In that war the US-funded and -trained military systematically murdered tens of thousands of people, including Bishop Oscar Romero.
Is Mr. Obama, in the last six months of a presidency plagued by dogged domestic opposition. able somehow to overcome the legacy of distrust caused by that war? Is he somehow able to convince Central American governments that it's safe to invite the US to help with internal violence? It's doubtful at best.
But you also know the strength of the opposition to an open-border policy for these people.
I know a little about the situation in El Salvador. Your suggestion that the US cooperate "at the highest levels" there is entirely unworkable. For one thing, the elected government can't do much about the gang violence, and not for want of trying.
For another thing, the government of El Salvador is rightly reluctant to solicit any sort of assistance from the US. Their reluctance is a legacy of the civil war in the 1980s. In that war the US-funded and -trained military systematically murdered tens of thousands of people, including Bishop Oscar Romero.
Is Mr. Obama, in the last six months of a presidency plagued by dogged domestic opposition. able somehow to overcome the legacy of distrust caused by that war? Is he somehow able to convince Central American governments that it's safe to invite the US to help with internal violence? It's doubtful at best.
18
...Is Mr. Obama, in the last six months of a presidency plagued by dogged domestic opposition. able somehow to overcome the legacy of distrust caused by that war?.....
No, but in his first years in office, when he was very popular, he was passive, despite the fact that he appears to have been well-versed in the issues. Further, he appointed a Sec. of State who was close to the Neocons and who supported Reaganlike policies toward Central America. Also, he never really took charge or set the tone of the Dept. of Homeland Security, whose officers have openly defied him and whose professional association now openly supports Trump for President. So -- no, he can't do much now. But that doesn't mean that he bears no responsibility.
No, but in his first years in office, when he was very popular, he was passive, despite the fact that he appears to have been well-versed in the issues. Further, he appointed a Sec. of State who was close to the Neocons and who supported Reaganlike policies toward Central America. Also, he never really took charge or set the tone of the Dept. of Homeland Security, whose officers have openly defied him and whose professional association now openly supports Trump for President. So -- no, he can't do much now. But that doesn't mean that he bears no responsibility.
4
Nick, I refuse to fault Obama here inasmuch as this is clearly one of those scenarios where a President is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.
The furor over uncontrolled immigration is one of the factors driving the Presidential candidacy of an American fascist - and yet you see fit to blame Obama for not doing more.
The human rights situation in Mexico is a horror story as is, as drug cartels and criminal gangs wreak havoc across that nation, largely, if not exclusively, because our American appetite for narcotics is unacceptable to our moral elite. And yet you expect Mexico to do even more for us, by providing sanctuary to these children.
The reality is that we need a comprehensive economic and cultural strategy for the Americas if we ever hope to address this problem - and part this strategy must involve the decriminalization of narcotics. Another part of this strategy must involve real world grassroots economic development for Mexico and Central America, so that these governments have a prayer of dissuading their youth from choosing a life of crime and violence. There's no reason but sheer corporate greed that these nations can't be hubs of manufacturing for the Americas - with their workers being paid FAIR WAGES (not serf wages) for the work done.
Nick, what you propose is a band-aid – but what's required is a greater vision, a truly American vision.
The furor over uncontrolled immigration is one of the factors driving the Presidential candidacy of an American fascist - and yet you see fit to blame Obama for not doing more.
The human rights situation in Mexico is a horror story as is, as drug cartels and criminal gangs wreak havoc across that nation, largely, if not exclusively, because our American appetite for narcotics is unacceptable to our moral elite. And yet you expect Mexico to do even more for us, by providing sanctuary to these children.
The reality is that we need a comprehensive economic and cultural strategy for the Americas if we ever hope to address this problem - and part this strategy must involve the decriminalization of narcotics. Another part of this strategy must involve real world grassroots economic development for Mexico and Central America, so that these governments have a prayer of dissuading their youth from choosing a life of crime and violence. There's no reason but sheer corporate greed that these nations can't be hubs of manufacturing for the Americas - with their workers being paid FAIR WAGES (not serf wages) for the work done.
Nick, what you propose is a band-aid – but what's required is a greater vision, a truly American vision.
158
The US was the first country to recognize the illegitimate government in Honduras, after a military coup deposed Manuel Zelaya in 2009.
1
Keep dreaming. Look at what a great job we did with puerto Rico.
1
So many moving parts. No one individual, institution or country has the power to fix this. To single out our president by name as singularly responsible is disingenuous and robs your argument the power of persuasion. Try again.
I am from Honduras and was once undocumented. I am keenly interested in stopping this suffering. These injustices. But let's be fair and even handed about assigning blame and about prodding action to alleviate suffering .
I am from Honduras and was once undocumented. I am keenly interested in stopping this suffering. These injustices. But let's be fair and even handed about assigning blame and about prodding action to alleviate suffering .
25
Perhaps if Honduras did not have such a high birth rate, suffering would be alleviated.
4
C'mon Nick, President Obama is doing the job that most Americans want him to do: enforce immigration laws and strive to create a political atmosphere in which meaningful reform can protect even "illegal" deportees from violence.
But that's difficult in a deadlocked Supreme Court and a GOP unwilling to discuss serious immigration reform in addition to lawlessness in places like Honduras and El Salvador.
But that's difficult in a deadlocked Supreme Court and a GOP unwilling to discuss serious immigration reform in addition to lawlessness in places like Honduras and El Salvador.
25
Some, no doubt, insist that the only solution is for Mexico and the U.S. to accept these refugees as citizens. Given the recent U.S. Supreme Court non-decision, we won't be doing that, so perhaps we both need to be cleverer in how we help Cristóbal avoid the fate that seems inevitable if he's repatriated to a patently failed society.
Far more appropriate to our regional interests than Afghanistan is stabilizing El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras. They’re rapidly becoming the sanctuaries of buccaneers intent on preying on the entire region. There are a number of ways of doing that, from armed intervention to exterminate them, much as Jefferson sent what passed for our fleet in 1801 to clean out the Barbary pirates (with mixed success), up to a hermetic embargo of these nations to prevent drugs from coming out and thereby strangling the gangs. We might offer massive aid to the legitimate governments, but despite recent efforts at battling it corruption at an epic scope and scale appears endemic there and entrenched – instead of fighting the murderers we might just be lining the pockets of the thieves.
But we’ll need to step out of the box on this one. Much like the global refugee problem generally, the solution cannot be that more stable societies simply absorb endlessly those cast off by destabilized ones. The solution must be that the world comes together to stabilize what has become unstable, so that people may re-boot their lives at HOME, and not in other societies.
Far more appropriate to our regional interests than Afghanistan is stabilizing El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras. They’re rapidly becoming the sanctuaries of buccaneers intent on preying on the entire region. There are a number of ways of doing that, from armed intervention to exterminate them, much as Jefferson sent what passed for our fleet in 1801 to clean out the Barbary pirates (with mixed success), up to a hermetic embargo of these nations to prevent drugs from coming out and thereby strangling the gangs. We might offer massive aid to the legitimate governments, but despite recent efforts at battling it corruption at an epic scope and scale appears endemic there and entrenched – instead of fighting the murderers we might just be lining the pockets of the thieves.
But we’ll need to step out of the box on this one. Much like the global refugee problem generally, the solution cannot be that more stable societies simply absorb endlessly those cast off by destabilized ones. The solution must be that the world comes together to stabilize what has become unstable, so that people may re-boot their lives at HOME, and not in other societies.
25
Corruption in itself should not be a non-starter. We have to get off our high horses and realize that corruption in these countries is a way of getting things done. It worked well in our country for many years and is an inherent part of human history. Sad but true. Live in the real world.
Don't you keep up, Nick?
These 'children' are swelling the ranks of MS13 in the US. There have been several murders in the DC area by these 'children'.
I am certainly not saying that the idea behind this endeavor was to replenish the ranks of MS13; but I would say that if it had been, the federal government could hardly have come up with a better plan. From smugglers at the border - some drug cartel, some gangs - it accepted people whose identity it had no way of verifying and delivered them at tax-payers expense to other people, many in the US illegally themselves - 80% as now known, whose identity it also didn't ascertain in areas with heavy Central American concentration, including MS13 gangs. In 2014 the minors who were being delivered were 70 percent male and 84 percent were between the ages of 13 and 17 by their own claims. In fact, 31 percent claimed to be 17 - the oldest they could be and still be considered a minor. Many then disappeared into the community.
One of these 'children' was executed by another 'child' who had joined MS-13 in the DC area. At arrest (late 2015), the murderer was 15; he'd come over the border in Oct 2014. How old was he then? 14? 13? Who knows.
ICE had been making some serious strides in disrupting transnational gang activity in the US until Obama de-emphasized cooperating with local law enforcement agencies to remove gang members . One of Obama's legacies will be to have replenished the ranks of MS13.
Spare us the outrage, Nick.
These 'children' are swelling the ranks of MS13 in the US. There have been several murders in the DC area by these 'children'.
I am certainly not saying that the idea behind this endeavor was to replenish the ranks of MS13; but I would say that if it had been, the federal government could hardly have come up with a better plan. From smugglers at the border - some drug cartel, some gangs - it accepted people whose identity it had no way of verifying and delivered them at tax-payers expense to other people, many in the US illegally themselves - 80% as now known, whose identity it also didn't ascertain in areas with heavy Central American concentration, including MS13 gangs. In 2014 the minors who were being delivered were 70 percent male and 84 percent were between the ages of 13 and 17 by their own claims. In fact, 31 percent claimed to be 17 - the oldest they could be and still be considered a minor. Many then disappeared into the community.
One of these 'children' was executed by another 'child' who had joined MS-13 in the DC area. At arrest (late 2015), the murderer was 15; he'd come over the border in Oct 2014. How old was he then? 14? 13? Who knows.
ICE had been making some serious strides in disrupting transnational gang activity in the US until Obama de-emphasized cooperating with local law enforcement agencies to remove gang members . One of Obama's legacies will be to have replenished the ranks of MS13.
Spare us the outrage, Nick.
25
I'm not sure those gangs operate in Kristof's neighborhood.
4
I hear Cristobal's story and want him to be able to flee Honduras and come to the US. Here are the reasons that give me pause:
Cristobal is one of millions in the world seeking asylum. We cannot offer it to every one of them.
How do we know that Cristobals' story is true, that he is an innocent victim, and do we have the resources to determine that for Cristobal and the millions of others?
How do we welcome Cristobal when we already have so many needy people in our country?
How do we welcome Cristobal when others who have come have not been cared for properly, which is unfair to them and also opens us up to criticism even when we are trying to do the right thing?
How do we welcome any more immigrants when our own population is already too large, our cities overcrowded, our air, earth, and waters polluted, and our resources (e.g. water in the West) scarce?
How do we welcome more immigrants when our own people are unemployed or underemployed?
Can't we expect Mexico to bear the burden of immigration over its relatively small southern border?
The United States still receives well more than its proportionate share of immigrants. On a personal level, I think our country is better because of our generous policy of immigration and even illegal immigration. But the world is in motion and the benefits of immigration will crumble if we don't have sensible limits.
Cristobal is one of millions in the world seeking asylum. We cannot offer it to every one of them.
How do we know that Cristobals' story is true, that he is an innocent victim, and do we have the resources to determine that for Cristobal and the millions of others?
How do we welcome Cristobal when we already have so many needy people in our country?
How do we welcome Cristobal when others who have come have not been cared for properly, which is unfair to them and also opens us up to criticism even when we are trying to do the right thing?
How do we welcome any more immigrants when our own population is already too large, our cities overcrowded, our air, earth, and waters polluted, and our resources (e.g. water in the West) scarce?
How do we welcome more immigrants when our own people are unemployed or underemployed?
Can't we expect Mexico to bear the burden of immigration over its relatively small southern border?
The United States still receives well more than its proportionate share of immigrants. On a personal level, I think our country is better because of our generous policy of immigration and even illegal immigration. But the world is in motion and the benefits of immigration will crumble if we don't have sensible limits.
67
If Cristobal's story is true, this means he is a child facing death in his own country and should be first in line to get asylum. The Mexican government has its own problems with drug cartels. It gladly accepts the US $86 million, however does a poor job at screening refugees. The US shouldn't be washing its hands off this situation.
4
Mr. Kristof:
you are off the mark by at least two magnitudes...
when was President Obama,
or any US President,
assigned the duty and responsibility of policing
sovereign foreign states?
and from-and-by whom were such powers assigned?
why would Americans want us to do so?
while definitely not appropriate,
Pope Francis would have a far-better chance
of success in curbing Central American violence.
with all of the wanton killing that is taking place
every day here,
with an absent and do-nothing Congress,
and with a depleted federal court system that needs buttressing,
let us get-on with curing our own ills first and foremost.
perhaps you could report -- again --
from Flint or Chicago,
for example,
next week and keep our feet to the fire at home.
23
This injustice is part of a piece that should shame all Americans who have created a political environment where nothing important, especially immigration, gets accomplished. As with the profusion of guns, many of whose owners should ever get within a mile of one, real people get hurt, or die. We let this happen because our partisanship trumps not only our nationhood, but also our core humanity.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
10
Nothing is getting done because our union is better served by the status quo. About half of us want strict borders and the other half want none. Forcing a policy decision at this point only divides us. Perhaps we should watch the UK over the next two years and see how a 52-48 decision plays out.
3
I do not feel ashamed people in Latin America have too many children.
4
Even an adjacent lead, "U.S. Deportations Persist, Thousands Every Week." offers barely a word on how US Central-American policies, and arms, contribute to this cauldron of poverty, violence, fear. In the noble tradition of the Reagan Revolution, if not for the growth industry of several recently-manufactured and generously-funded homeland security services – all seemingly practicing for that knock on your door in the middle of the night – we'd maybe by now have no government at all. The war against the poor continues with mostly full citizen and government authorization; it's not much of a fight, but the sense of righteousness is, as in credit-card ad, priceless.
5
We aren't deporting the recent walk-ins. For years, ICE has loaded busloads of illegals and just dropped them off a day's travl away, unannounced and uninvited.
6
Thank you Mr. Kristof for calling attention to this horrific situation. It is absolutely unconscionable. You are right to be outraged as we all should be.
But why you lay this at the feet of the President?The alternative is to have the refugees travel further to be turned away or sent back at our border.
The problem is not that refugees are being turned back at the southern border of Mexico. The problem is that our federal government - which includes Congress - is unwilling to accept refugees from other countries to match the flow of refugees to this country. It is not about where they are stopped, it is about the fact that they are stopped.
The suggestion to Mexico that should be counseled to screen refugees more carefully and provide asylum where appropriate will be met with this response: Y tu?
Yes, we should work with Honduras and El Salvador to "address the chaos" - - but that is like telling them to be better societies. That will not happen overnight.
We need a much better, more humanitarian and more generous refugee policy and the resources to implement it. Opposition from Congress, border States and even the public has impeded progress on those fronts. The problem is not "hypocrisy" it is conservative opposition to a better refugee policy.
But why you lay this at the feet of the President?The alternative is to have the refugees travel further to be turned away or sent back at our border.
The problem is not that refugees are being turned back at the southern border of Mexico. The problem is that our federal government - which includes Congress - is unwilling to accept refugees from other countries to match the flow of refugees to this country. It is not about where they are stopped, it is about the fact that they are stopped.
The suggestion to Mexico that should be counseled to screen refugees more carefully and provide asylum where appropriate will be met with this response: Y tu?
Yes, we should work with Honduras and El Salvador to "address the chaos" - - but that is like telling them to be better societies. That will not happen overnight.
We need a much better, more humanitarian and more generous refugee policy and the resources to implement it. Opposition from Congress, border States and even the public has impeded progress on those fronts. The problem is not "hypocrisy" it is conservative opposition to a better refugee policy.
36
The reason this is also Obama's responsibility is that, as usual, he does not really push for his agenda and gives in to the Republicans without a determined public fight. Do you remember the major evening address in which he asked citizens to allow more refugees in the country, explaining that we should be a moral leader and that the alternative will alienate citizens around the world? Do you remember his going around the country and addressing citizens, not just at educational institutions and factory floors, but in places where he did not already have an audience that agreed with his policies? Did you hear about his having lunch with dozens of opposition politicians in order to both get to know them and support this cause? You do not remember those things because he does not really fight for his position here, or regarding other things that may be of more importance to him. Regarding this issue and so many others, he is good at getting elected, poor at leading, poor at reaching out to the opposition, poor at changing the minds of independents. That's a pity, and that's why it is his fault. AND he is, after all, the one who made the compromise to which Kristoff refers -- he did not have to do that.
It just seems so obvious that the only solution is to address the problems in the countries generating these floods of refugees .
But there is no profit in that for arms manufacturers and the giant military.
But there is no profit in that for arms manufacturers and the giant military.
13
The situation in Central America is even worse than Mr. Kristoff describes. The policy of returning children to an inevitable death sentence in their country of origin is deplorable. It is also the tip of an iceberg of failed policies.
The Barrio 18 and MS-13 gangs were founded in Los Angeles by the children of Salvadorian exiles fleeing war in the 1980s. When the US deported many of the gang members back to their parent's countries, they became caught up in the violent aftermath of the region's wars.
At the end of the Cold War, the US did finally support the region's peace processes. But it then withdrew. A decade later, violence had returned, now not caused by guerrilla movements and death squads, but by street gangs, criminal networks and drug traffickers.
Today the US strategy to confront the region's turmoil is called the "Alliance for Prosperity." It draws greatly from the earlier security programs to fight drug cartels in Mexico (Mérida Initiative) and to fight drug and terrorists in Colombia (Plan Colombia). Each of these exacerbated violence and led to a dramatic increase in human rights violations.
Central America today is experiencing a profound humanitarian crisis. The pillars of US policy are to detain child refugees at Mexico's southern border and to provide security assistance to the region.
The Obama Administration has resorted to the same old "mano dura" (hardline) strategies that will only continue to generate more migrants and misery.
The Barrio 18 and MS-13 gangs were founded in Los Angeles by the children of Salvadorian exiles fleeing war in the 1980s. When the US deported many of the gang members back to their parent's countries, they became caught up in the violent aftermath of the region's wars.
At the end of the Cold War, the US did finally support the region's peace processes. But it then withdrew. A decade later, violence had returned, now not caused by guerrilla movements and death squads, but by street gangs, criminal networks and drug traffickers.
Today the US strategy to confront the region's turmoil is called the "Alliance for Prosperity." It draws greatly from the earlier security programs to fight drug cartels in Mexico (Mérida Initiative) and to fight drug and terrorists in Colombia (Plan Colombia). Each of these exacerbated violence and led to a dramatic increase in human rights violations.
Central America today is experiencing a profound humanitarian crisis. The pillars of US policy are to detain child refugees at Mexico's southern border and to provide security assistance to the region.
The Obama Administration has resorted to the same old "mano dura" (hardline) strategies that will only continue to generate more migrants and misery.
17
"The Obama Administration has resorted to the same old "mano dura" (hardline) strategies that will only continue to generate more migrants and misery."
You've heard of the Supreme Court Decision on the "Dreamers?"
You've heard of the Supreme Court Decision on the "Dreamers?"
2
Those places would still be an absolute disaster. Mindless Catholic cultural habits and Latino sexism only lead to misery for all involved. This is not caused by the US.
4
Even if it was in his power to give asylum to every one of those children, what's the solution once they get here? The data I've seen suggested 1 in 30 children are homeless in the U.S. 16 million live in poverty. Over 400,000 live in foster homes. I don't want to see a single child suffer, but the problem is bigger than opening our borders. We have no solutions for a better life for these kids, who've only known poverty and crime and no education to improve their situations without a lot more assistance than a ticket across the border provides. We need to clean our own house and assist others in cleaning theirs if we want to provide a more hopeful future for all children. And sadly, most people are so focused on their personal issues or dreams that they won't rally to ask our government to act like responsible adults.
60
The President and Congress have very little interest or concern for Latin America. Venezuela is on the brink of collapse, Nicaragua is overwhelmed with gangs that feed America's drug habit, and there are countless other problems that mean nothing to Americans and nothing to Congress and the President. Instead we have wastes over two trillion dollars in the Middle East on endless wars and, in the process, lost our compassion for the helpless. What's happening here is not a failure of political will but a corruption of our moral principles and with it our ability to reason and compromise.
8
America has no duty whatsoever to accept unlimited numbers of immigrants.
America already accepts far more immigrants than any other country.
Immigration must have an overall numerical limit on the total number of immigrants accepted each year, including refugees.
Sub-limits can be set up for various categories, including refugees.
But the total of all the sub-limits for all categories, including refugees, must not exceed the overall limit.
Immigration must be controlled, including numerical limits, and including all sub-limits for all categories, including refugees.
No exceptions. No loopholes.
Specifically, regarding refugees:
their claims must be scrutinized very carefully.
Right now, it is far too easy to make a mere claim and then get entry.
In the case of Central Americans coming through Mexico, they ought to be detained in Mexico and make their claim there.
America already accepts far more immigrants than any other country.
Immigration must have an overall numerical limit on the total number of immigrants accepted each year, including refugees.
Sub-limits can be set up for various categories, including refugees.
But the total of all the sub-limits for all categories, including refugees, must not exceed the overall limit.
Immigration must be controlled, including numerical limits, and including all sub-limits for all categories, including refugees.
No exceptions. No loopholes.
Specifically, regarding refugees:
their claims must be scrutinized very carefully.
Right now, it is far too easy to make a mere claim and then get entry.
In the case of Central Americans coming through Mexico, they ought to be detained in Mexico and make their claim there.
46
For many people, crossing the border is very intricate. There's always fear of being caught by the authorities, but I have never heard of what happens afterwards. Likewise, I still can't believe we still have this refugee issue. I think people should be responsible for their own choices of living and something like this doesn't influence them to continue their liberty especially the punishment. It's things like these that express the horrible nature of out country. It doesn't represent who we are as a whole. The only country is slightly worse with these punishments. Something has to be done. It's living proof that discrimination still exists. It's s shame.
2
For many people, crossing the border means giving a sack of cash to the very gangs that Nick and his fellow angels insist we're saving these people from, and hoping for the best.
4
I appreciate your calling out the failure of the Obama administration to humanely address the refugee crisis in Central America. As you note, many of these refugees are children. You might also have noted the inhumane treatment of those refugees who do manage to enter the United States, including the reports that many have been held in remote facilities and "cold rooms" without warm clothes or blankets and taunted by guards. Perhaps as a country we can't come to terms with treating those fleeing Central American violence as "refugees" and instead view them as criminals.
In fairness, the causes of refugee crises around the world are less and less understood, and the media doesn't dig very deep. Gang violence is endemic in Central America and both adults and children are fleeing. We got it. But why? Are there political and economic forces at work? Environmental forces at work such as droughts? The same goes for North Africa, the Middle East, and many other regions of the world where increasing numbers are displaced or flee intolerable life conditions. Recent reports estimate the number of global displaced persons as between 65 and 85 million! Any one response to the many ongoing refugee crises including this one may seem inhumane or even reprehensible, but one might wonder if the enormity of the global problem is simply overwhelming our collective ability to feel we can do anything other than turn away.
In fairness, the causes of refugee crises around the world are less and less understood, and the media doesn't dig very deep. Gang violence is endemic in Central America and both adults and children are fleeing. We got it. But why? Are there political and economic forces at work? Environmental forces at work such as droughts? The same goes for North Africa, the Middle East, and many other regions of the world where increasing numbers are displaced or flee intolerable life conditions. Recent reports estimate the number of global displaced persons as between 65 and 85 million! Any one response to the many ongoing refugee crises including this one may seem inhumane or even reprehensible, but one might wonder if the enormity of the global problem is simply overwhelming our collective ability to feel we can do anything other than turn away.
12
Mr. Kristof, you don't write the headlines over your stories but this one is way over the top--both untrue and provocative in the extreme. And why drag in the lost cause of Syria?
The Supreme Court just essentially affirmed that the state of Texas (and, by extension, other border states) have sovereignty when it comes to border security and immigration. Mitch McConnell's stubborn refusal to entertain Judge Merrick Garland is the first domino to fall.
Your hypocrisy is stunning; the president sought to protect children from deportation because they had nothing to do with being born to parents in America without authorization; this is called compassion.
That President Obama and Enrique Peña Nieto agreed to intercept youthful Central Americans--drug couriers--has been silently applauded by the Right but they want the whole nine yards; they want *all* Mexican, Central and South American runaways sent away in a blanket deportation.
The president is within his legal authority "to protect and defend..." and when, by his authority, this gushing stream of young people attempts to sneak into the U. S. is dammed up, he's suddenly perceived as both soft on immigration and, according to you, hypocritical. It's disappointing that you choose to blame President Obama for a choice a kid in another country makes; how is someone else's poor decision his fault?
Back to Syria, the gangrenous spread of W. and Cheney. Why should this president accept responsibility for their crimes?
The Supreme Court just essentially affirmed that the state of Texas (and, by extension, other border states) have sovereignty when it comes to border security and immigration. Mitch McConnell's stubborn refusal to entertain Judge Merrick Garland is the first domino to fall.
Your hypocrisy is stunning; the president sought to protect children from deportation because they had nothing to do with being born to parents in America without authorization; this is called compassion.
That President Obama and Enrique Peña Nieto agreed to intercept youthful Central Americans--drug couriers--has been silently applauded by the Right but they want the whole nine yards; they want *all* Mexican, Central and South American runaways sent away in a blanket deportation.
The president is within his legal authority "to protect and defend..." and when, by his authority, this gushing stream of young people attempts to sneak into the U. S. is dammed up, he's suddenly perceived as both soft on immigration and, according to you, hypocritical. It's disappointing that you choose to blame President Obama for a choice a kid in another country makes; how is someone else's poor decision his fault?
Back to Syria, the gangrenous spread of W. and Cheney. Why should this president accept responsibility for their crimes?
301
According to the article, the only "choice" these kids made was to obey gang leaders holding guns to their heads or the heads of their relatives. Even law courts differentiate actions taken under duress from actions that are freely chosen.
11
I wish I could recommend your post a hundred times!
2
Well, your response sounded well thought out -- until the last paragraph. W. and Cheney are 7 years gone. About now a mature President would have sorted things out for himself.
Personally, I blame our economic status on the policies of Jimmy Carter. Even the astute financial acumen of Ronald Reagan couldn't undo all his blunders.
Personally, I blame our economic status on the policies of Jimmy Carter. Even the astute financial acumen of Ronald Reagan couldn't undo all his blunders.
4
Legislative and Judicial action prevent the President's plan to grant legal status to 11,000,000 immigrants currently 'in the shadows' .... June 2016
The collaborative program attempted to slow down new illegals, but failed to persuade conservatives in either house or the judiciary that immigration was under control, or to win their approval of Obama's executive order. Hyperbole by Mr. Kristof and hysterics by Rima Rigas aside, the President is unable legally and physically to bring in every at risk child or adult. Neither is Mr. Sanders.
He's been in politics longer than the president with less to show for all his grand-standing.
The collaborative program attempted to slow down new illegals, but failed to persuade conservatives in either house or the judiciary that immigration was under control, or to win their approval of Obama's executive order. Hyperbole by Mr. Kristof and hysterics by Rima Rigas aside, the President is unable legally and physically to bring in every at risk child or adult. Neither is Mr. Sanders.
He's been in politics longer than the president with less to show for all his grand-standing.
95
Did you even bother to read my comment?
5
'Deporter in Chief' 'never a progressive'
Yes, and wondered, why bother? Tedious, sanctimonious, heading to the usual refrain.... unfair treatment of Mr. Sanders....
Yes, and wondered, why bother? Tedious, sanctimonious, heading to the usual refrain.... unfair treatment of Mr. Sanders....
16
Nope! None of that.
2
Um. Ok. Shall we start rescuing Yemenl kids from terrorists? Perhaps if we could control our own taste for S American narcotics the drug trade and it's attendant horrors would diminish. Or perhaps US corporations might raise the slave wages they pay the Guatemalans and filter to their stock holders on Wall Street, necessitating the drug business.etc. etc. or do we prefer the gesture that does not fix the cause but looks heroic on the 6 o'clock news. I begin to see I was mistaken about American progressivism if Nicholas is one. It is certainly not what I took it to be. Silly me.
29
If President Obama deserves blame on this issue of abandoning refugees in danger of being killed -- and I believe he does indeed share a measure of blame -- , it's only because he listens seriously to what a lot of Americans are telling him, without using due discretion.
As we have just seen most recently in the reaction to the Supreme Court's non-ruling on United States v. Texas, there are very many Americans who are as deplorable in their tribalism and selfishness as anyone anywhere on the planet. The contempt for people seeking refuge in one form or another in this country is horrendous. I would love to say that such cruel, tribalist, self-righteous prejudice is un-American; but alas, it is not at all. And it seems President Obama is resigned to that sad reality, the way he is resigned to other horrible aspects of American society, such as the gun culture.
As we have just seen most recently in the reaction to the Supreme Court's non-ruling on United States v. Texas, there are very many Americans who are as deplorable in their tribalism and selfishness as anyone anywhere on the planet. The contempt for people seeking refuge in one form or another in this country is horrendous. I would love to say that such cruel, tribalist, self-righteous prejudice is un-American; but alas, it is not at all. And it seems President Obama is resigned to that sad reality, the way he is resigned to other horrible aspects of American society, such as the gun culture.
17
Exactly how many unfortunate, or supposedly unfortunate, persons from Latin America should we allow to enter? How about unfortunate people from the Middle East? Libya? Central Africa?
Is there a limit? Are we tribal if we wish to enforce our own immigration laws?
Can all these millions of unfortunates stay at your house?
Just as we are not the world's policeman, we are also not its social workers.
Is there a limit? Are we tribal if we wish to enforce our own immigration laws?
Can all these millions of unfortunates stay at your house?
Just as we are not the world's policeman, we are also not its social workers.
10
Well said and there is no question that the US should accept the estimated 85,y 000,000 refugees. The US is huge and there is plenty of space. I spent several years in Honduras and the birth rate was astonishing. In the valley y where I was the population expanded from 2 after WW2 to many thousands. Where once there was enough land for every son to farm and raise a family now there is simply not enough. Women would not take birth control pills because they were afraid that if their men found out they would kill them thinking they were unfaithful. The men were not under the same constraints. There were no real jobs.....and all the agricultural labor was done by women. They had to leave for the US...there wsa no space for them in their own country. So the answer is obvious.....until there is some sort of world wide effort at birth control this will only get worse. I urge Mr. Kristof to encourage the US to eliminate its borders and take all refugees world wide.
It is not cruel to refuse to admit yet more people with sob stories asking us to work harder to provide for them. Latinos have a very high birth rate. Let them stop mindlessly breeding and sending half their population here and most of their problems will be solved.
4
As long as we're using anecdotal stories instead of real data to drive policy, here's one for you. A few years ago, my son, while attending Rutgers in NJ, was viciously attacked by in illegal Mexican immigrant and nearly blinded. The man was eventually deported. I happened to see the prosecutor about 6 months later. He told me the same guy had been arrested again after another drunken rampage in which he had again attacked the first "gringo" he saw. deportation is a revolving door, at least in New Brunswick. The bottom line is that we have the right, and the responsibility, to police our borders. To somehow turn this situation into an attack on Obama is a really pathetic ploy. Cristobal's very convenient story may be true, or may just be what he thinks you want to hear. Either way, he has the responsibility to his brother and his countrymen to stay and change the facts in his own country. Just as we need to do here.
362
Are you doubting Carlos' story? You are not 'convinced' he faces mortal danger if returned to Honduras? Do you have any knowledge whatsoever of the situation in Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador? Do you typically put up blinders when faced with difficult issues?
Finally, are you aware Carlos is a 13 year old child? How is he expected to 'stay and change the facts in his own country' if he is faces mortal danger in Honduras? Your anecdote regarding your son's attack is sad, and all are sorry he was the target of a vicious attack. However, what does that have to do with Kristof's article? Are you implying refugee children from Central America are somehow dangerous or violent?
The region faces a serious security crisis produced by decades of violent civil war, deep seated poverty, corrupt government, non existent social services, and the world's highest murder rates. Do we not have a direct interest in addressing the problems facing these societies head on? Our Administration has realized many important accomplishments since Jan 2009. However, our foreign policy has failed to effectively address the horrific public security and safety crisis facing millions of families in El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala. Accepting, and caring for, refugee children facing mortal danger from these nations is the least we can do.
Finally, are you aware Carlos is a 13 year old child? How is he expected to 'stay and change the facts in his own country' if he is faces mortal danger in Honduras? Your anecdote regarding your son's attack is sad, and all are sorry he was the target of a vicious attack. However, what does that have to do with Kristof's article? Are you implying refugee children from Central America are somehow dangerous or violent?
The region faces a serious security crisis produced by decades of violent civil war, deep seated poverty, corrupt government, non existent social services, and the world's highest murder rates. Do we not have a direct interest in addressing the problems facing these societies head on? Our Administration has realized many important accomplishments since Jan 2009. However, our foreign policy has failed to effectively address the horrific public security and safety crisis facing millions of families in El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala. Accepting, and caring for, refugee children facing mortal danger from these nations is the least we can do.
2
I agree. Even though we feel bad for kids who are threatened with murder if they do not join street gangs, we do not have an obligation to let all of these people move to the United States. To pretend that the United States is responsible for all of the problems in the world and therefore has an obligation to welcome every refugee with open arms is unrealistic.
11
Amen. These people need to fix their countries, not run and hide in the United States. And I would take these stories with a BIG grain of salt. The guy wants to come to the U.S. for a better life. He's going to say anything he thinks you want to hear. I'm not moved in the least.
This column is reprehensible journalism. It is beneath the New York Times to publish it. It is a few unsubstantiated stories cobbled together as a policy statement. It's an offense to readers.
This column is reprehensible journalism. It is beneath the New York Times to publish it. It is a few unsubstantiated stories cobbled together as a policy statement. It's an offense to readers.
9
When the right blames President Obama for everything and anything, it is understandable. After all, it is GOP's number one goal - and we haven't touched on the birthers, the tea partiers and those who could never stomach having a black president yet - but it is quite regrettable to see liberals and progressives feel the need to click bait Mr Obama's efforts as if he could walk on water.
"Obama's Death Sentences?" Really, Mr Kristof? Similar headliners like "Obama continual pace of deportation" and "Obama refusing to close Gitmo" are so GOP friendly that you wonder whose side people generating this sort of narratives are on. This is not to say one has to take sides, of course. A journalist, or even columnist, could say things like they are without taking sides but blaming the president for some bureaucratic snafu or legal impossibility can only benefit those who are blocking progress to begin with.
From that angle, you do have to wonder how many Bernie's supporters end up voting for Trump even though Sen Sanders has stated he will vote for Mrs Clinton
"Obama's Death Sentences?" Really, Mr Kristof? Similar headliners like "Obama continual pace of deportation" and "Obama refusing to close Gitmo" are so GOP friendly that you wonder whose side people generating this sort of narratives are on. This is not to say one has to take sides, of course. A journalist, or even columnist, could say things like they are without taking sides but blaming the president for some bureaucratic snafu or legal impossibility can only benefit those who are blocking progress to begin with.
From that angle, you do have to wonder how many Bernie's supporters end up voting for Trump even though Sen Sanders has stated he will vote for Mrs Clinton
309
I don't believe Mr. Kristoff has heard of an unfortunate person anywhere that he has not advocated opening up our borders to help. One day he will realize we do not have suffiencient resources to help the 7 billion and rapidly growing human population. Time to aggressively pursue population controls before things get far far worse, which they will. Food, water and habitable land are limited.
29
""Obama's Death Sentences?" Really, Mr Kristof?"
Yeah, really. It's possible to make a strong point without engaging in hyperbole like that. That's just not productive on any level.
"But Cristóbal, along with many others, could end up being murdered because of these two presidents he is unaware of. Obama and Peña Nieto have cooperated for two years to intercept desperate Central American refugees in southern Mexico, long before they can reach the U.S. border."
I'd rank Mr. Kristof's logic almost as good as "Otter's" from Delta House, who ingeniously tried to blame the entire United States of America for the infamous antics that landed them on double secret probation.
BTW, he lost that argument, just like Mr. Kristof loses this one.
Yeah, really. It's possible to make a strong point without engaging in hyperbole like that. That's just not productive on any level.
"But Cristóbal, along with many others, could end up being murdered because of these two presidents he is unaware of. Obama and Peña Nieto have cooperated for two years to intercept desperate Central American refugees in southern Mexico, long before they can reach the U.S. border."
I'd rank Mr. Kristof's logic almost as good as "Otter's" from Delta House, who ingeniously tried to blame the entire United States of America for the infamous antics that landed them on double secret probation.
BTW, he lost that argument, just like Mr. Kristof loses this one.
5
@Bos
Sanders will vote for Clinton but not endorse her.
That is an exquisitely worded definition of Progressive leadership. And that is why the world will be a better place when Bern heads back to Burlington.
Sanders will vote for Clinton but not endorse her.
That is an exquisitely worded definition of Progressive leadership. And that is why the world will be a better place when Bern heads back to Burlington.
2
President Obama was never a progressive. President Obama is not our messiah, either. While, by all accounts, he does distinguish himself with the title of Deporter in Chief, since he is the president who has deported the most immigrants, one does have to account for what's written into the law and what he has no choice but to do. On the other hand, criticism that he does his job too well, is deserved. Does that mean that Obama metes out death sentences? I don't think so; not unless one is willing to spread the blame to a Congress that has steadfastly refused to do anything about immigration and has done, by doing nothing, everything it can to asphyxiate the executive branch.
President Obama is almost done with his second term. The DNC is about to crown Hillary Clinton as its nominee in the presidential election. What are her views on immigration? Would she do any better than Obama has? Well, we know the answer is no. Here are Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders in January this year, at the Black And Brown Forum, organized by the magazine Fusion. Journalist Jorge Ramos and others grilled both candidates on many topics, including immigration.
http://www.rimaregas.com/2016/01/video-hillaryclinton-and-berniesanders-...
Oh, and on assigning blame? We can definitely include the media for the poor job it did, by design, in vetting all candidates on ALL the issues of the day.
Blame Obama? Sure, if you blame everyone else.
President Obama is almost done with his second term. The DNC is about to crown Hillary Clinton as its nominee in the presidential election. What are her views on immigration? Would she do any better than Obama has? Well, we know the answer is no. Here are Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders in January this year, at the Black And Brown Forum, organized by the magazine Fusion. Journalist Jorge Ramos and others grilled both candidates on many topics, including immigration.
http://www.rimaregas.com/2016/01/video-hillaryclinton-and-berniesanders-...
Oh, and on assigning blame? We can definitely include the media for the poor job it did, by design, in vetting all candidates on ALL the issues of the day.
Blame Obama? Sure, if you blame everyone else.
106
In case you didn't realize it, the English people have spoken. They are tired of open borders. Far more than globalists thought. Same may be true here. Many are tired of the uncontrollable borders and illegal immigrants over burdening our already broken society. We are full up. Cities, roads, schools, hospitals are all over loaded as is the environment. No more.
21
MP:
Robert Reich:
"Donald Trump has opened the floodgates to lies about immigration. Here are the myths, and the facts
MYTH: Immigrants take away American jobs.
Wrong. Immigrants add to economic demand, and thereby push firms to create more jobs.
MYTH: We don’t need any more immigrants.
Baloney. The U.S. population is aging. Twenty-five years ago, each retiree in America was matched by 5 workers. Now for each retiree there are only 3 workers. Without more immigration, in 15 years the ratio will fall to 2 workers for every retiree, not nearly enough to sustain our retiree population.
MYTH: Immigrants are a drain on public budgets.
Bull. Immigrants pay taxes! The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report this year showing undocumented immigrants paid $11.8 billion in state and local taxes in 2012 and their combined nationwide state and local tax contributions would increase by $2.2 billion under comprehensive immigration reform. MYTH: Legal and illegal immigration is increasing.
Wrong again. The net rate of illegal immigration into the U.S. is less than zero. The number of undocumented immigrants living in the U.S. has declined from 12.2 million in 2007 to 11.3 million now, according to Pew Research Center. "
http://robertreich.org/post/131585289045
Robert Reich:
"Donald Trump has opened the floodgates to lies about immigration. Here are the myths, and the facts
MYTH: Immigrants take away American jobs.
Wrong. Immigrants add to economic demand, and thereby push firms to create more jobs.
MYTH: We don’t need any more immigrants.
Baloney. The U.S. population is aging. Twenty-five years ago, each retiree in America was matched by 5 workers. Now for each retiree there are only 3 workers. Without more immigration, in 15 years the ratio will fall to 2 workers for every retiree, not nearly enough to sustain our retiree population.
MYTH: Immigrants are a drain on public budgets.
Bull. Immigrants pay taxes! The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report this year showing undocumented immigrants paid $11.8 billion in state and local taxes in 2012 and their combined nationwide state and local tax contributions would increase by $2.2 billion under comprehensive immigration reform. MYTH: Legal and illegal immigration is increasing.
Wrong again. The net rate of illegal immigration into the U.S. is less than zero. The number of undocumented immigrants living in the U.S. has declined from 12.2 million in 2007 to 11.3 million now, according to Pew Research Center. "
http://robertreich.org/post/131585289045
15
With our huge land there is no reason we can't take the estimated 85,00y a0,000 refugees in the world. It would be an economic benefit and it would help the US grow. They would represent but a fraction of the current population. It is a lot more reasonable to take the world's poor in the US than to ram it down the throat of the Germans, the French or other Europeans that have an identifiable culture. The US has no culture other than one of absorbing the needy.
3