Article: too many words, too little to say. The readers, again, have more insight and wisdom than the writers. When somebody makes a living by writing they seem to write because they have to not because they have something valuable to say. Scanned the article, read the comments. Thank you, the contributing public!
I've been in a relationship for only six years (I say "only" because I know that in comparison to couples that have been together for 15, 20, 30, 40, and even 50 years, six is just a snippet). We sometimes go to eat and join the "Dining Dead": we eat in silence; ask for the check almost immediately after having finished our last bite; and go home to fall asleep. I have never felt scared by our lack of talking, because I feel strongly that it's a natural part of living with someone after the "honeymoon" phase, well, phases out. When something exciting happens at work, I immediately think to tell my partner. When my mom lets me in on some family gossip, I chat non-stop to my partner. My partner, who is naturally less talkative than I am, speaks when he has something he finds important or interesting to say. Some days are nosier than others; other days are near silent. Some nights in bed, I'm on my phone and he's watching Sports Center. We are consumed by completely different things, but I feel so together in the sharing of our habits. I'm not sure this works for everyone, but it works for us.
Bravo to Molly Pascal who so eloquently and simply wrote about a topic that I would bet so many of us understand and with which we have dealt!
Bravo to Molly Pascal who so eloquently and simply wrote about a topic that I would bet so many of us understand and with which we have dealt!
1
Love allows us respite to work out our issues. A balancing act at best and a chaotic journey of surprises that tests our being-ness. Ego and Id play havoc at times and 'whatever it takes' becomes the motto to get us through the day. Imperfections in our personality at best become understood and at worse tolerated, Back and forth and up and down through thick and thin and heath and illness. Whatever it takes is what works for whomever is looking through the tunnel of love for some light. And for heaven's sake people, The Dining Dead, we all know them, we've been them, we read their minds while we ignore our dining partners...we must just laugh at ourselves.
2
My husband I are 69 years old. Sometimes we talk, most times we do not. For one thing, we have learned the difference between talk and chatter; but mostly, we have learned to read each other so well, talk is often not required. Additionally, talk can often confuse what started out as a clearly understood situation - words do not always clarify.
I think this person needs to stop looking around at "all the other couples" - whether talking or not - and comparing herself to some ideal that never has existed.
She has what appears to be a great marriage to a wonderful man, she has two wonderful children, and, if she is living in New York, what seems to be a great apartment.
Just live your life - it is way too short for this over-analyzation and debate about whether one is doing it right, or not. It will only lead to trouble. Why buy trouble?
I think this person needs to stop looking around at "all the other couples" - whether talking or not - and comparing herself to some ideal that never has existed.
She has what appears to be a great marriage to a wonderful man, she has two wonderful children, and, if she is living in New York, what seems to be a great apartment.
Just live your life - it is way too short for this over-analyzation and debate about whether one is doing it right, or not. It will only lead to trouble. Why buy trouble?
2
I'm glad this couple worked through their issues but I resent the judgment of the "dining dead". I am very loud, can be a chatterbox and talk my own soliloquies. My partner is the complete opposite. One of the most valuable things our relationship taught me was that not all things need to be spoken in words and not all things need to be analysed and debated.
There is beauty, joy and companionship in being able to be quiet with another person. And implicit trust when speaking without spoken words. My partner and I don't dine out regularly, so even worse we are the "dining dead on the couch with netflix". I have a really demanding job and coming home, exhausted, to cuddling on the couch, takeaway, some series and minimal talking is what home is for me.
There is beauty, joy and companionship in being able to be quiet with another person. And implicit trust when speaking without spoken words. My partner and I don't dine out regularly, so even worse we are the "dining dead on the couch with netflix". I have a really demanding job and coming home, exhausted, to cuddling on the couch, takeaway, some series and minimal talking is what home is for me.
7
Sometimes there's more love in silence than in speaking.
And you're on the right track. Leave the children.
And you're on the right track. Leave the children.
4
Thank you.
2
The most romantic moments in life usually dance around us when we are least expecting them. And silence, the ocean upon which we sail effortlessly with each drawn breath, is the soul of pure love. When talking is unneccesary, when touching is unneccesary, and when the mere space that encircles the moment is enough to satisfy your heart: this is romance at its purest.
2
While I liked and related to this essay, I object to the dining dead assumptions. My husband and I are often silent when we go out to dinner, but then I am a stay at home mom and he works from home so talk happens throughout the day so we know what happened in the day. Long, philosophical conversations are much more likely to happen on long car rides to nowhere. When we are going out, we are busy experiencing something together. We'll talk about it later.
7
My wife and I have separate but parallel ongoing interests that provide a lot of conversation topics. We pursue our curiosity without the time sucking distractions of TV and popular media. Plus we play music together which is a major joy for both of us. Forty-five years and still ticking...
4
Yay! Great job!
1
It's been like this since the beginning , you always the one who does/initiate the "talking". Once your focus shifted on something else, children , maintains your household etc....then the talking disappeared . You see ?Once you realized that there was something missing (the talking), then you were working on it, finding all possibilities to bring it back and there it was: you are talking again!! Also as relationship aged , you actually don't have to talk, a lot going on those body languages and face expressions if you really know your significant other.
Okay, I didn't realize until I read some of the comments that
the author, in referring to "old people" was writing about
folks my age! Totally laughed out loud...I honestly didn't
recognize myself or my husband in her description of us
oldsters in our mid to late sixties.
the author, in referring to "old people" was writing about
folks my age! Totally laughed out loud...I honestly didn't
recognize myself or my husband in her description of us
oldsters in our mid to late sixties.
5
And let us not forget the wonderful scene in Thornton Wilder's "Our Town" where Dr. Gibbs admits to his wife that his greatest fear at the time they married was they wouldn't have material for more than a few weeks conversation.
2
This essay presents a mini " screen play " that captures the emotional experiences in the oft roller coaster of marriage. The focus of the article is not about talking or not talking, but sharing the little and the big feelings that, once presented to one's mate, draws both the reporter and the recipient into a private understanding of how to empathize, support, and accept their spouse's unique response to his or her world and the relationships in that sphere. "Breaking on through to the other side" is a reminder of the goal in interpersonal relationships, that is to subserve one's defense mechanisms so that trust is developed by mutual understandings between the couple that flies like a fairy spreading dustings of love and shared special moments. Bravo for the artistic presentation of these truths of lasting love, a deeper love,too.
2
After just seven years of marriage, you're worried about lack of conversation?
Too much pressure! Chill, girl!
My wife and I are married 18 years. We have many moments together of solitude. Even in restaurants. So what? We speak when there's something to say. And there's never any pressure to talk - especially if it's just to avoid the awkwardness that can sometimes accompany silence. If that awkwardness exists with your spouse, it's you - and not the marriage itself - that might require an overhaul in your thinking.
Less pressure = more natural, fluid, and satisfying activity...in *every* aspect of life and marriage. Try it.
Too much pressure! Chill, girl!
My wife and I are married 18 years. We have many moments together of solitude. Even in restaurants. So what? We speak when there's something to say. And there's never any pressure to talk - especially if it's just to avoid the awkwardness that can sometimes accompany silence. If that awkwardness exists with your spouse, it's you - and not the marriage itself - that might require an overhaul in your thinking.
Less pressure = more natural, fluid, and satisfying activity...in *every* aspect of life and marriage. Try it.
6
This is, for the most part, a lovely, sweet and well-articulated piece - a story of falling in love, finding that love has become diluted, and re-finding love in the midst of every day family life and its challenges. Thank you for sharing it.
If you (the author) are reading these comments, I do need to say that I cringed - no, winced - at the notion that those 25 years older than you are "elderly couples." Really? Really really really? In our early to mid sixties, we just barely make the demographic cut; many of us would not readily use the term "elderly" to describe ourselves, and most of us are out in the world doing many of the same things you are - y'know, contributing to society, hiking, all those good things. I have yet to meet someone my age who is primarily concerned with dyed hair, aches, bowels, and how hard it is to be old. (And indeed, Jazzercise probably isn't the purview of those living in a fog of aching joints and bowels.)
Separate from the questionable accuracy and lack of perspective on aging, I balk at the unkindness of your comments toward the elderly as you perceive them for the same reasons that I balk at the unkindness in some of the comments your readers have left here. That's ok, we all have learning to do, but I hope you get what I'm saying.
If you (the author) are reading these comments, I do need to say that I cringed - no, winced - at the notion that those 25 years older than you are "elderly couples." Really? Really really really? In our early to mid sixties, we just barely make the demographic cut; many of us would not readily use the term "elderly" to describe ourselves, and most of us are out in the world doing many of the same things you are - y'know, contributing to society, hiking, all those good things. I have yet to meet someone my age who is primarily concerned with dyed hair, aches, bowels, and how hard it is to be old. (And indeed, Jazzercise probably isn't the purview of those living in a fog of aching joints and bowels.)
Separate from the questionable accuracy and lack of perspective on aging, I balk at the unkindness of your comments toward the elderly as you perceive them for the same reasons that I balk at the unkindness in some of the comments your readers have left here. That's ok, we all have learning to do, but I hope you get what I'm saying.
41
TWO FOR THE ROAD with Albert Finney and Audrey Hepburn. She says "What kind of people just sit together and don'talk?" He says "Married people."
not true for me; we talk a lot but...there can be something nice about taking a rest from talking. Being so comfortable with each other that the quiet is pleasant...especially if you both have intense jobs where you talk and or think all day.
not true for me; we talk a lot but...there can be something nice about taking a rest from talking. Being so comfortable with each other that the quiet is pleasant...especially if you both have intense jobs where you talk and or think all day.
13
Conversation is intimacy. I had to read that on a marriage counseling website. My husband and I hadn't really talked since our grown son came to stay with us, months and months. I, too, poured the wine and by the end of that glass we were planning a trip to Paris. But you don't have to be in Paris to have the conversation. We have our daily glass of wine together, no tv, and we talk. And by the way, we old folks have plenty to talk about besides our aches and pains!!!
5
Dolly Sods. Such a glorious place. Thank tou for sharing
4
Love is not about talking; it is about kindness and selflessness. You can talk all you want, but if your spouse is not kind, you have nothing. But if your spouse is kind, whether or not there is talking, you have everything. Nuff said!
25
Particularly mean-spirited description of older couples. Does she really know what they talk about (if they do)?
19
been with my partner for 25 years now - we just talk naturally about whatever - this morning we strolled to our favourite Sunday brunch ramen place - sat down, I pulled out my phone to google 'pronation' - OK - then a few minutes later I commnented that she was staring at her phone - well ! - 'YOU Started It !' she cried. OK - screens are a conversation killer - so if you want conversation, deliberative turning those off can work.
A tip - when I first see her at the end of the day, I simply ask 'how was your day ?' - and wait in silence - she will unload whatever funny stories or stress she feels from the day just gone - I also passed this tip to an immigrant Chinese single father worried about his young teenage daughter going off the rails - I said 'don't try to fix her - just listen' - 6 months later he took me to lunch with his daughter as a thank you - he said their relationship was great again thanks to that simple one thing.
I also volunteer at after-school childcare and note that if I walk up to a tiny kid and ask them a question - they'll typically shrug their shoulders and dissemble as they seek to avoid the physical threat looming in their face - but - if I sidle up quietly and sit down adjacent, after a minute they typically turn to me and start to give me their stream of consciousness about what they're doing or what they experienced today - and/or 'come and play'
'Sitting quietly - doing nothing - Spring comes - and the grass grows by itself'
A tip - when I first see her at the end of the day, I simply ask 'how was your day ?' - and wait in silence - she will unload whatever funny stories or stress she feels from the day just gone - I also passed this tip to an immigrant Chinese single father worried about his young teenage daughter going off the rails - I said 'don't try to fix her - just listen' - 6 months later he took me to lunch with his daughter as a thank you - he said their relationship was great again thanks to that simple one thing.
I also volunteer at after-school childcare and note that if I walk up to a tiny kid and ask them a question - they'll typically shrug their shoulders and dissemble as they seek to avoid the physical threat looming in their face - but - if I sidle up quietly and sit down adjacent, after a minute they typically turn to me and start to give me their stream of consciousness about what they're doing or what they experienced today - and/or 'come and play'
'Sitting quietly - doing nothing - Spring comes - and the grass grows by itself'
33
You're a genius. Truly. The "don't try to fix her" advice is golden, as is the "don't get in their face" approach to small children. People are so often like cats: You have to let them come to you, and then they're yours forever.
7
A good tale for a 32 year married couple whose only child is going off to school this fall. My wife is my best friend, but it is going to be scary not having a teenager to grill at dinner. (They go great with red wine and morels)
21
Morels or morals? Either way, both go well with red wine.
8
Ha ha this was our trick with our teenagers! When we wanted to know what was going on in their heads, we went hiking!
7
A magician never reveals her secrets! Let's hope they don't read this column, or your hiking days are over.
1
Just today while I was watching By The Sea with Brad Pitt and Angela Jolie with my wife of 24 years I ask my wife why Brad and Angela no longer have sex with each other. My wife flatly says "because they no longer love each other."
I say what does that mean for us, because we haven't been intimate in years. She says it's different for us and then simply walks out of the room but before she does she says "I knew you would bring this up".
I think we need to talk more but she refuses to talk or gets angry when we do. There's talk and then there's real talk. We can talk about the kids for days on end or business or politics. But just one word around intimacy or sex and the urge to talk hits a serious roadblock.
Sad
I say what does that mean for us, because we haven't been intimate in years. She says it's different for us and then simply walks out of the room but before she does she says "I knew you would bring this up".
I think we need to talk more but she refuses to talk or gets angry when we do. There's talk and then there's real talk. We can talk about the kids for days on end or business or politics. But just one word around intimacy or sex and the urge to talk hits a serious roadblock.
Sad
28
Life is too short to be sad.
Can we all just say this at once:
ALL RELATIONSHIPS SUCK!
Well, at least to some degree.
ALL RELATIONSHIPS SUCK!
Well, at least to some degree.
3
all relationships are work. kids can put a lot of strain on marriages. but they're also funny as hell, which makes for good laughs and bonding as a result of the unique misery!
4
I know my wife intimately except when it relates to intimacy
4
My 86 year old father has dementia, my mother in her advanced age has been denied her "constant companion" and reliable source of exchange, anxious why he no longer speaks with confidence and authority. It's hardest on her, losing access to that "one someone" taken by disability.
2
Reminds me of the Chris Rock bit he used to do:
"Remember the time--"
"Yeah I remember that time!"
After 25 years you do know most of each other's stories. Thank God the current political climate generates endless conversational fodder.
"Remember the time--"
"Yeah I remember that time!"
After 25 years you do know most of each other's stories. Thank God the current political climate generates endless conversational fodder.
15
Wow. Why do people get so negative? My first marriage ended because we stopped talking about anything but the kids. We lost interest in each other. I am more to blame for making the kids my entire focus. Between full time work and parenting, I had nothing left. My husband didn't share the burden either. I am remarried and after 13 years, we talk a lot and take weekends away about 1-2 times a year (it's all we can afford). It helps a lot. I thought my children would grow up and my ex and I would rekindle, but his love died.
12
This is a wonderful story that adds to an incredible section of the Times. As a singleton struggling in the adult dating world for many years, this column fuels my hope and keeps my cynicism at bay.
11
I don't necessarily consider conversation to be the benchmark of intimacy. Although my late husband and I did enjoy conversation about politics, philosophy, film and many other subjects, I had had a different kind of relationship with my Dad. When I was living at home, he and I had a kind of closeness that didn't require conversation. we could sit together on the couch for an hour without saying a word and it never felt like an awkward silence.
8
Why can't people just absorb and enjoy one person's experience? Why the defensiveness and judgement? This writer puts herself, her life and her feelings out there to share, not condemn. People write about what they feel - their perceptions; they could be right or wrong but they are valid for that person. Lighten up. Be grateful if your relationship is good and happy for others when theirs gets better.
38
Thank you for saying this, Sally! I enjoy reading the comments in the NYTimes, because I think people can learn a lot from each other. But so often, what I learn is that people are awfully mean-spirited.
4
Early in my marriage (together 7yrs, married over 2yrs) I thought our occasional moments of silence, were a sign of trouble ahead. This lovely story and the many comments, has reconfirmed my error. Our commitment in marriage is so much more than that. Having my spouse nearby, stealing a kiss, sending a short text message, making eye contact and a hello/goodbye kiss everyday are just as enduring. So much can be said without saying anything.
10
After 45 years of married life, my wife died suddenly in 2006. Now, most evenings after making my own dinner, I watch several hours of TV. When Linda was alive we rarely watched any television.
And so I tried to remember what we did do during and after dinner. We started talking as lovers but we never stopped until the day she died. We would often read the same book at the same time so that we could talk about it, just as we talked about a movie we saw together. When Linda came to work with me in 1997, we weren't sure what effect it would have on our marriage. It was wonderful because it gave us more time together and more to talk about. We always had something to talk about and couldn't understand all the quiet couples in restaurants looking so lonely.
But our best talking always happened when we walked together. Even our most difficult decisions were made easier when we walked and talked.
And so I tried to remember what we did do during and after dinner. We started talking as lovers but we never stopped until the day she died. We would often read the same book at the same time so that we could talk about it, just as we talked about a movie we saw together. When Linda came to work with me in 1997, we weren't sure what effect it would have on our marriage. It was wonderful because it gave us more time together and more to talk about. We always had something to talk about and couldn't understand all the quiet couples in restaurants looking so lonely.
But our best talking always happened when we walked together. Even our most difficult decisions were made easier when we walked and talked.
166
You loved Linda. Lucky you. Lucky Linda.
21
walking and talking is the best
5
I love this story! I've been intentionally turning off my device for a while now, and there are so many benefits. Love and conversation are just two of them.
20
I'm glad the two of you worked it out, but I find this essay entirely nauseating and precious.
39
That's respectful.
8
"We would sit side by side in bed, computers on our laps, surfing the internet." Say no more.
26
Surfing the internet need not be an escape from one another. On the internet, one can find topics of conversation, items to read out loud to one another.
12
I often see couples on tops of mountains not talking. Just spreading out their food and eating. Are they the hiking dead?
My wife and I of 30 years often talk little at fine restaurants, knowing all the great meals we've "missed" by talking and not savoring. We are enjoying ourselves and each other by sharing a great experience, just like those quiet couples on mountain peaks taking in the view, savoring their accomplishment.
Like us, maybe they'll talk about it on the way home.
My wife and I of 30 years often talk little at fine restaurants, knowing all the great meals we've "missed" by talking and not savoring. We are enjoying ourselves and each other by sharing a great experience, just like those quiet couples on mountain peaks taking in the view, savoring their accomplishment.
Like us, maybe they'll talk about it on the way home.
29
i agree i am quiet. i love quiet. i love meaningful conversation, but constant chatter and noise is hard for me. i love being in nature and enjoying the sounds of nature. everyone is different.
3
After 35 years of marriage, there are times my husband and I run out of things to say to each other, sometimes we even bore each other but I don't think that it diminishes our relationship. Relationships ebb and flow, and are alive.
My oldest son believes that he needs to have deep philosophical discussions in his relationship. I've tried to explain that life is very daily- what do you want for dinner? What movie shall we see? What restaurant should we go to? And it's okay to have those discussions.
Maybe after 35 years we don't feel the need to discuss our deepest thoughts or feelings. We know each other well enough to connect without words.
Maybe the author just needs more time in her marriage to reach that point.
My oldest son believes that he needs to have deep philosophical discussions in his relationship. I've tried to explain that life is very daily- what do you want for dinner? What movie shall we see? What restaurant should we go to? And it's okay to have those discussions.
Maybe after 35 years we don't feel the need to discuss our deepest thoughts or feelings. We know each other well enough to connect without words.
Maybe the author just needs more time in her marriage to reach that point.
20
I needed this today. My thanks.
15
Yes! That is exactly how it is. It reared its ugly head when our kids graduated college and began their adult lives. The "empty nest" was deafeningly silent. We discovered that traveling and discovering new places gave us things to talk about and remember. We become like children ourselves, excited and giddy with anticipation. We also love to hate politicians! This makes for some very heated discussions! Twenty-eight years together and always willing to work out whatever has tied itself in a knot. He is always my love and I am always his.
23
In the same bed, each with your own computer? And iy didn't work?
Shocked, shocked I say!
Shocked, shocked I say!
6
I like that your piece points out that real communcation starts with creating the conditions for true PRESENCE to each other. In this hyper-connected world it is a quality that I find desperately lacking in virtually all social situations. Before talking comes BEING - really being in the presence of the other, no phones, no kids, no daily grind ... and your being together allowed each of your "beings" to re-emerge to each other. Wishing you a long and happy life of presence to each other, in silence and in speech (maybe that should go into wedding vows!) ... and best of luck in your writing.
15
This THIS was really the point. Not about whether you hike, not about what you chose to talk about, but in a world where everyone is on their phone even while they talk to you, while they are at parties, or sitting around a table looking at phones and not talking- tvs on everywhere, ipads everywhere- taking the digital noise out the equation and just being two people together. That's the real connection.
5
We've been married for 31 years and wonder where the time has gone. Two days before we married, we were in a Boston department store. For some reason we started chatting with two different older couples (they looked in their 70s). When we shared with them we were getting married in two days, both couples said the same thing , "Just keep on talking." And we have. We talk to each other every single day, regardless of where we are in the world (we both travel a lot for business). Every now and then we remind each other of the older couples in the department store, so long ago, and agree they were right. "Just keep on talking" is our advice to younger couples.
22
As someone who pretty much, "returns to sleep in our downsized condo, all without being able to come up with anything of consequence to say to each other" all I can say is, well, aren't you lucky?
12
My husband and I will celebrate our 55th wedding anniversary next Sunday. Two things limit our conversations in public -- his deafness and his diagnosis of dementia. It is perhaps too easy to make judgments like "dining dead" because you have no idea what the people at the next table have to deal with. We are quiet now, because it is difficult for him to hear me in a restaurant so that he can assess what I am saying and how to respond. Dementia doesn't only mean forgetfulness; it can mean slowing of comprehension too. If given time and calm, he can understand and evaluate and reply, but in the noise and hubbub of a crowded restaurant, it is too difficult.
But still, we talk. At home now, our conversations are less likely to be about politics or books or world events than they are about "do you remember ..." , a rich vein that we mine frequently and happily. We have had a long life together, full of happiness, some tragedy, much change. And as we come to the end, we find we really con't care any more about the facile judgments of strangers.
But still, we talk. At home now, our conversations are less likely to be about politics or books or world events than they are about "do you remember ..." , a rich vein that we mine frequently and happily. We have had a long life together, full of happiness, some tragedy, much change. And as we come to the end, we find we really con't care any more about the facile judgments of strangers.
144
So well said. Thank you.
2
Thank you for sharing your wise words of experience. Life is all about adjusting and making the most of what you have.
4
wonderful article
17
Long before the 'Spotless Mind' movie came the best movie about marriage - ever, Stanley Donen's 'Two for the Road,' with the line. spoken by lovely Audrey H. to surly, determined-to-stay-single Albert F. as they observed a silent, dour couple in a restaurant: 'What knd of people just SIT there, not talking?'
Albert: 'Maaaried people.'
Kudos to all those who realize marriage IS a garden to be nurtured, and which -like a garden- has its seasons, both verdant and dormant.
Albert: 'Maaaried people.'
Kudos to all those who realize marriage IS a garden to be nurtured, and which -like a garden- has its seasons, both verdant and dormant.
50
I think that the cornerstone of any healthy relationship is curiosity. We're always changing, the laws of impermanence irrefutable, how could you possibly know everything about another? You don't even know everything about yourself. Don't assume...and by staying curious, the spark of Eros is energized...no matter how many years (or kids) together.
15
My husband is the quiet type, one of the reasons I married him. My mother was a chatterbox and I am particularly put off by that. However, he seldom takes the responsibility of conversing. It takes energy and is an art. I get so tired of being the one who initiates. Sometimes I just wait feeling annoyed.
20
Took me more than 40 years of marriage to realize....duh-uh! Aspbergers!
Loved him anyway, but it sure helped pieces fall into place.
Loved him anyway, but it sure helped pieces fall into place.
6
Worldwide Marriage Encounter to "encounter" each other again. We recommend it.
You know this is every couple, right? Seriously, right?
This is why comedians all have this scenario in one of their routines... it's true. It's funny because it's true. But hey, without reality, there'd be no self help books or pundits telling us to talk a little every day or have date night, etc.
This is why comedians all have this scenario in one of their routines... it's true. It's funny because it's true. But hey, without reality, there'd be no self help books or pundits telling us to talk a little every day or have date night, etc.
12
When we were married more than 50 years ago, I did worry that we would run out of things to talk about. Children have been raised and gone, retirement has been managed, friends have been made and lost. I find that all those years of shared experiences have been distilled into conversations where one word or one phrase can say volumes. This quiet is not "dining dead" but moments of companionable, or sometimes unhappy, memories. We also are fortunate in having the space so that each of us has an "office" and individual internet access, and we pursue individual interests outside the home. At the end of the day there is still something to talk about together.
33
This couple talked about their histories, their kids, their experiences... Me me me. No wonder they ran out of words. Talking about things beyond yourselves - issues, the state of the world, the meaning of life... Fodder for a lifetime of discussion, once you broaden your vision.
60
This comment is spot-on accurate.
6
How very mean-spirited. You actually don't know that they didn't have other interests - the state of the world, etc., but people often bond intimately - as lovers or as friends - over the funny, sad, awkward, happy and challenging stuff of their histories and their everyday lives. It pains and saddens me that you would turn this into a personal attach - and it pains and saddens me that this would pass muster and be published. Last I checked "Modern Love" is a forum for personal stories, not for philosophical treatises. Please, just some kindness for another human being who shared a personal story.
13
This is exactly why you shouldn't have children.
55
Happens to some extent even if you don't....
8
I am happy that the choice not to have children is becoming less fraught these days, but to suggest, in such judgmental fashion, that children are the root cause of marital ills is simplistic and unhelpful. No doubt even without children, I can think of so many stressors of life that lead to boredom and disconnect in a decades-long relationship.
26
(Although someone did take the trouble to have you.)
4
You were wise to recognize and reconnect. One of the best things my husband and I did early on in our marriage—and that became habit--was to sit down together at the end of the day (and before dinner) to catch up. Growing up, our daughters knew that that half hour was our time and then they’d get theirs. It’s been 37 years now and we still find plenty to talk about.
48
Not married, but partnered and living together for almost 17 years (ack!), we certainly could fit the description of "dining dead", sitting and eating at our local diner, often mostly silent. Content, but not actively communicating. Then, a thought occurs, or I note something on the silent but active TV in the distant front of the restaurant, and conversation starts....Or starts and then gets more intense as I look up something on my smartphone to clarify or answer a question about the subject we have begun talking about. Which then provokes more conversation that frequently takes off in all kinds of obscure directions, led by the constantly curious and questing mind of my partner. The phone is a catalyst to conversation, not a roadblock. As we casually walk around the city, or elsewhere, we often stop to take funky architectural shots, or macro flora street photos, me on my phone with a great camera, him using his 'visual assistant' camera he carries for multiple purposes. Not lots of talking, but lots of communication as we commune with street flora, gorgeous clouds and sunsets, strange street scenes, etc. I love having a partner who shares so many of my quirky sensibilities...spoken or un.
44
As we age we benefit from tackling tough subjects relating to loss of power, loss of looks, loss of sexual prowess, loss of status (and so on). We tackle the "what ifs" of how one will manage after the other is gone. We compare how our parents managed modern day issues of living longer: the living will, the will, the executor, the dispersal of goods, downsizing, medical provisions. We discuss religion and politics. I can imagine this happening even if one of us begins to have intellectual challenges.
23
Like a garden, marriage requires regular maintenance and attention.
At the beginning of my marriage, I naiively assumed that with time, my husband and I's marriage would naturally strengthen and flourish--as though time was the fool-proof adhesive that would seal our connectedness. However, I quickly realized that without proper care and conscious efforts to connect (i.e. putting down and disconnecting from technology at regular intervals), we would grow apart, rather than together. Our solution has been to regularly take walks, golf, bike, and other outdoor pursuits, as well as always eating dinner together, which has helped stimulate spontaneous conversations and affection. We still have our ups and downs--who doesn't?--but this at least gives us an opportunity to break away from the confines of monotonous household perseverations to look into each others' eyes and hearts.
Interestingly and not coincidentally, pregnancy rates almost always go up in times of civil unrest and natural disaster, in large part because of power shortages and the relative abundance of free time due to inoperable technology. Couples have more time to make love, not separate from one another through whatever screen option!
At the beginning of my marriage, I naiively assumed that with time, my husband and I's marriage would naturally strengthen and flourish--as though time was the fool-proof adhesive that would seal our connectedness. However, I quickly realized that without proper care and conscious efforts to connect (i.e. putting down and disconnecting from technology at regular intervals), we would grow apart, rather than together. Our solution has been to regularly take walks, golf, bike, and other outdoor pursuits, as well as always eating dinner together, which has helped stimulate spontaneous conversations and affection. We still have our ups and downs--who doesn't?--but this at least gives us an opportunity to break away from the confines of monotonous household perseverations to look into each others' eyes and hearts.
Interestingly and not coincidentally, pregnancy rates almost always go up in times of civil unrest and natural disaster, in large part because of power shortages and the relative abundance of free time due to inoperable technology. Couples have more time to make love, not separate from one another through whatever screen option!
45
Molly, you have no clue what my husband and I talked about on our drive to and from the abominably noisy restaurant, how much fun we had playing footsie during the meal and winking at each other now and then, or the mischief we got up to once we were home!
73
So painfully beautiful.
42
Commitment to not abandon one another, to love deeply even when you aren't liking each other, to never give up, particularly if the distance is from boredom or lovers block. My GP loved basketball to relax in med school. There was an edict that the court would be replaced by a parking lot. He chained himself to the basket in protest. That's commitment just as is true of a meaningful 40 to 60 years spent with a spouse who loves you and will NOT forsake you. It wasn't just the hikes in the woods. It was the core desire to not abandon one another just like many of the lost loves they told each other about when they were dating.
27
Why fill all the golden oases of silence with cheap chatter? The 'dining dead?' How little regard for a relationship in which words are no longer necessary.
59
You're thinking more of When Harry Meets Sally. The author of this essay is talking about another kind of silence.
34
Being able to sit, dine or hike together and not talk -- comfortably, companionably -- is one of the best things about a long-term relationship. Anyone who is so disengaged with her partner that she is, when out on a date night, pronouncing judgement on the strangers around her, is simply projecting her own issues on others. "DIning dead"? That may be a cute phrase on which to hang an essay, but it drips with disdain. We never know what others are going through in their lives, how they feel about their choices, what they dream of or what dreams they have abandoned, what they have attained and what gives them joy. We must not make negative assumptions about others to make ourselves feel better. In other words, I am saying keep your nose down and don't judge. Sometimes silence is a good thing.
190
For me being able to be present together in silence, not having to fill it up with meaningless chatter, is the sign of a deeply felt connection.
2
The goal is meaningful chatter. Or meaningful silence.
2
People expect to have a delightful and fulfilling relationship, when they have no time or energy to invest in it, and only see the same aspects of their partner again and again! Then they end up blaming their partner or the marriage for their boredom, disconnection and unhappiness.
I'm glad this couple figured out that time just for them, away from responsibilities and doing something together that they both enjoy can enrich that relationship so much. A lot of people could learn from that.
I'm glad this couple figured out that time just for them, away from responsibilities and doing something together that they both enjoy can enrich that relationship so much. A lot of people could learn from that.
69
So inspiring.
14
Inspiring! I fear the dining dead...
But how can those of us who can't take a weekend away retrieve our lost conversation?
But how can those of us who can't take a weekend away retrieve our lost conversation?
12
Turn off all the devices and sit on the front porch with a pitcher of iced tea and watch the world go by.
38
Such a great one. The dining dead. I'm single. lol. I see them all the time and think "there but the grace of god go I..." Maybe now I will go and tell them to take a hike. lol. and mean it! Thanks for sharing.
23
My wife and I went for a walk the first night we met, forty eight years ago, and today our "being together time" is a 3 mile hike in the evening with sandwiches often enjoyed on rock overlooking the SF Bay Area as them moon rises.
Sure beats trying to make small l talk in a crowed, noisy restaurant filled with people trying to "connect".
Sure beats trying to make small l talk in a crowed, noisy restaurant filled with people trying to "connect".
93
It's true that too many restaurants these days are neither relaxing nor good for conversation. Too often I feel that I have to yell to be heard above the din.
55
This is lovely, but just a thought...not all of us who are sitting quietly in a restaurant dining with our partners are the dining dead; some of us are just quietly content! (My husband and I spend many an evening quietly sitting on the sofa reading books :) I used to think all those silent couples had run out of anything to say and were distant. That was before I was ever in a deep relationship and knew the contentment of quiet sharing.
172
I agree about quiet, contented companionship in a marriage. It is an accomplishment, not a sign of failure.
107
Indeed, I have a hectic, rather stressful job and talk all day, and it is the content, quiet time that I have with my partner that gives me the strength to get through it all.
6
Thank you for this lovely story. We do not have children and we are newly married and love talking but I keep very conscious about this as I can see couples all the time having dinners and staring their cell phones.
I think it is good to be conscious about this rather than getting lost in the organizations of running the household.
And I think having children ruins few people's marriage precisely because of the focus of all the talk. We have a dog and laugh about how often we talk about him. (-; I can only imagine if we had a child.
I think it is good to be conscious about this rather than getting lost in the organizations of running the household.
And I think having children ruins few people's marriage precisely because of the focus of all the talk. We have a dog and laugh about how often we talk about him. (-; I can only imagine if we had a child.
15
We found doing an activity together would promote talking. We would walk the dogs and eventually we would see things or the dogs would do something and we would talk . When walking wasn't available, jigsaw puzzles would work. Conversation sometimes started with have you see a corner piece .
28
One of the most beautiful MLs I've ever read. (Of course, I've been married 30 years and can completely relate. It's worth hanging in there to reach this stage. At one time I almost threw it away. Am so glad I didn't.)
82
Good for you! After 6 kids and 20 years of marriage my then wife and I divorced, our relationship becoming what you described of yours. The difference was we let it it sink further.
29
Delightful story and food for thought.
27
What a lovely story to start my day.
17
Sounds like sarcasm.
2
My (second) wife and I continue to have things we can talk about after 11 years of marriage, but we walk and hike a lot, and rather than concentrate on things to have, we have things to do, both together and apart.
And we don't always have to talk when we're together. Sometimes it's good to just sit together and enjoy being with each other.
That's important!