This is a complete disaster and the beginning of the end for Europe and world stability. Remember the film "Children of Men" (2006)? Prepare for that reality.
6
Ok, this is a joke, but I think I know why the Brits wanted out of EU. Half of Asia and Africa along with the United States celebrate their independence day from the British Empire. Perhaps they thought they needed an Independence day of their own ?
10
Great Britain leaving the European Union is stupid plain and simple. Frightening to see that the same far right wing nut conservatives are alive and well in other countries beside the United States. This is a classic case of throwing away the baby with the bath water.
14
David Cameron's calling for the Brexit referendum will be remembered as one of the dumbest (and most selfish) moves in modern history.
22
English has become a global language by assimilating the best bon mots of every other language of the world. What a pity to put this in jeopardy in a moment of pique.
6
In the end, Brexit may not come to fruition as the governing British body the Parliament which will have to evoke the ER charter's 50 statue to leave does not necessarily have to respect this vote - so perhaps when all the fall out makes it clear of the inanity of "leave" , those responsible will simply not evoke the charter and stay
9
No-one seems to care, but what is happening now is immigrants and refugees to be rejected and subjected to discrimination…
4
Look up the 1922 Coudenhove-Kalergi Plan and learn how we got to Brexit. It's what happens when people are forced, pushed into something without their knowledge or consent. It's human nature at work, whether or not in our best interests.
The Kalergi Plan to create the United States of Europe was cleverly concealed and clandestinely pushed forward by aristocrats and political elites. Doubtful few even know about it. But it's interesting to look at the time-line. It was suspended during the WW1 and WW2. Then frantically resumed by C. Winston et al.
The Kalergi Plan to create the United States of Europe was cleverly concealed and clandestinely pushed forward by aristocrats and political elites. Doubtful few even know about it. But it's interesting to look at the time-line. It was suspended during the WW1 and WW2. Then frantically resumed by C. Winston et al.
5
Very true.
2
What a glorious, glorious day!
How wonderful to see the aboriginal people of Britain standing up for our nation. We will be just fine, thanks. 2000 years of history suggests we know how to run the place.
Bye, bye EU! We won't miss you!
How wonderful to see the aboriginal people of Britain standing up for our nation. We will be just fine, thanks. 2000 years of history suggests we know how to run the place.
Bye, bye EU! We won't miss you!
19
Depressing to consider where our global integration effort is derailing along class lines.
3
The fantasy of the Magna Carta lives on. Silly people who think that just because their politicians blather on about democracy they should actually consider the will of the people. The contrast this morning was really a bit shocking. On the one hand I heard a BBC announcer interviewing a bureaucrat from Brussels who was asked what the reaction from Brussels should be to the continuing anti-EU demonstrations across so many countries in Europe due to EU overreach - and he said obviously we need more regulations from Brussels to win over the people. (I might have thought he was joking but I think surgical removal of sense of humor is part of accepting the job.) On the other hand, David Cameron in the UK, when he lost the referendum and realized he was completely out of step with what the people had decided, actually stepped down. The idea of an EU official acknowledging the results of a referendum is obviously silly (see treaty of Lisbon, rejected by 2 referendums and enacted by Brussels anyway), but the idea of an official stepping down just because the peasants didn't agree with him. How strangely British.
14
People who think that a vote like BREXIT will stop globalism probably also think that they can vote on whether the Law of Gravity should be repealed.
Hate to bust your balloon, but time flows in only one direction (even if Richard P. Feynman suggested that it could also go in the opposite direction).
As time flows, and people learn new things, society changes. It might take a little longer because of BREXIT, but it will not be stopped. in the early 1800's people were all upset over the advent of machines in manufacturing, and they sabotaged them when they could. How did that work out?
There will be plenty of pain to go around based on this vote. Progress will not cease. Come argue with me in 10 or 15 years if you disagree.
Hate to bust your balloon, but time flows in only one direction (even if Richard P. Feynman suggested that it could also go in the opposite direction).
As time flows, and people learn new things, society changes. It might take a little longer because of BREXIT, but it will not be stopped. in the early 1800's people were all upset over the advent of machines in manufacturing, and they sabotaged them when they could. How did that work out?
There will be plenty of pain to go around based on this vote. Progress will not cease. Come argue with me in 10 or 15 years if you disagree.
8
When wisdom and experience becomes ineffectual, survival is just hit or miss.
2
Europe and the UK are suffering the effects of bad behavior by the US - destabilization of the Middle East and Syria - mass unwanted immigration - and, now, the result is this colossal debacle – the eventual dissolution of a 43-year relationship, with far more complicated and far-reaching consequences than those angry voters realize.
In the long run, Brexit will cost Britain its place in the world, result in the secession of Scotland and Upper Ireland from the UK, an economic recession for the UK, and economic harm to those who can afford it least.
Those politicians who were promoting Brexit have NO CLUE NOW what to do next. This was political grandstanding, which they NEVER expected to become a reality.
At the same time, I can completely understand the frustration of GB (not Scotland not Ireland) populace. US has the same issues. Too many changes, too quickly, TOO MANY LEFT BEHIND and FORGOTTEN. Uncontrolled immigration, loss and/or devaluation of jobs and wages, and dilution of the GB (and US) culture and way of life.
This is a cautionary tale. The US may very well yet elect the know-nothing Donald Trump. And, yet, even HE knows Brexit is not good for the UK - nor - the US.
In the long run, Brexit will cost Britain its place in the world, result in the secession of Scotland and Upper Ireland from the UK, an economic recession for the UK, and economic harm to those who can afford it least.
Those politicians who were promoting Brexit have NO CLUE NOW what to do next. This was political grandstanding, which they NEVER expected to become a reality.
At the same time, I can completely understand the frustration of GB (not Scotland not Ireland) populace. US has the same issues. Too many changes, too quickly, TOO MANY LEFT BEHIND and FORGOTTEN. Uncontrolled immigration, loss and/or devaluation of jobs and wages, and dilution of the GB (and US) culture and way of life.
This is a cautionary tale. The US may very well yet elect the know-nothing Donald Trump. And, yet, even HE knows Brexit is not good for the UK - nor - the US.
9
Diana:
Donald Trump said "I think it's [BREXIT] is a great thing that happened."
He is too dumb and too pig-headed to listen to anyone else about anything. So of course, he knows better.
He also took credit for Budweiser temporarily renaming its beer "America."
You can't make this stuff up. He is a major buffoon, but millions of stupid people will vote for him.
With any luck, BREXIT may be a wake up call.
Donald Trump said "I think it's [BREXIT] is a great thing that happened."
He is too dumb and too pig-headed to listen to anyone else about anything. So of course, he knows better.
He also took credit for Budweiser temporarily renaming its beer "America."
You can't make this stuff up. He is a major buffoon, but millions of stupid people will vote for him.
With any luck, BREXIT may be a wake up call.
13
On the contrary Donald Trump said on arrival in Scotland this morning that he thought Brexit was a good thing, fantastic in fact, in his own words as shown in this clip.
http://www.bbc.com/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36617669
http://www.bbc.com/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36617669
2
@joe - yes, I heard his comment on Brexit, but didn't believe a word. This is yet ANOTHER of his lies. Major financial institutions will flee the UK, plants not being built, the list is long. Sure, in the short-term, the cheap pound is good for tourism and trade. In the long run Brexit is disastrous for the UK on multiple levels. He did HEDGE the lie by saying it may be a five years or more before the verdict is in. He really does KNOW better - but, of course, can't admit it.
Donald Trump is a flim-flam man. Like PT Barnum, he believes one can never go wrong underestimating the intelligence of the average voter. And, he's got a lot of 'em.
Donald Trump is a flim-flam man. Like PT Barnum, he believes one can never go wrong underestimating the intelligence of the average voter. And, he's got a lot of 'em.
3
The liars have won. Jo Cox died in vain. The elderly and uneducated Leave voters have given unending difficulties for the younger generation, who voted to Remain. The age-old xenophobia and selfishness of English nationalists has resurfaced with a horrifying vengeance. England and its workers will be picked off by unscrupulous multinationals, without the shield of EU social legislation--just the result wanted by the rich media moguls who lied to the English people.
8
Jo Cox never bargained for death as the cost of advocacy.
7
"They" needed to be reminded, they work/represent us.........PERIOD!
12
Really?? Talking about biting off one's nose to spite one's face. Aside from increased tourism due to the cheap pound (which is a short-term hit, btw), what immediate or long-term good effect can be expected from this? No halt to immigration. Will those immigrants already there be deported? Maybe if GB has a recession, they will self-deport. Of course, its citizens will be jobless, as well. Further, does anyone believe this vote will encourage new investment and job creation?? No smart investor wants to put its money into a regressive and protectionist political environment. London has become a world financial center. That's going to change, now, as major financial institutions move elsewhere.
What GB has done in one fell swoop is reduce its stature and influence to that of a lame-duck with evaporating political capital and no leverage to negotiate in its best interests.
I seriously hope there can be a do-over on this "nonbinding" referendum.
What GB has done in one fell swoop is reduce its stature and influence to that of a lame-duck with evaporating political capital and no leverage to negotiate in its best interests.
I seriously hope there can be a do-over on this "nonbinding" referendum.
3
I was startled to read the NY Times call a 48% to 52% vote a "decisive" decision to leave the EU. Might I recommend that the editors review the choice of that word and perhaps consider the alternatives which represent the reality: "close", "narrow margin" or perhaps "slim victory". A focus on the weakness of democracy during polarized times would be a good start. Lest you get to comfortable from these shores, we are facing our own Brexit in the form of a TrumpXit, and if we go down that route we will have potentially larger consequences...
4
The effect will be as if 100% of the voters chose this outcome.
2
The EU lets those States-that-want-to-leave leave in peace - unlike the US.
7
Unlike the US, the EU was born in peace.
1
Congrats to England for being allowed to leave the union. The Yankees forced by sword the American South to remain in the Union. No, we were NOT fighting to preserve slavery as only a few soldiers had slaves.
6
Not remotely the same thing.
And soldiers follow orders, not their heart. The American Civil War was absolutely fought over slavery.
And soldiers follow orders, not their heart. The American Civil War was absolutely fought over slavery.
5
"We were NOT fighting to preserve slavery as only a few soldiers had slaves."
That's choice, Mary. Have you ever read "A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of [SC, MS, TX, VA, and your home state of GA]?" Because if you had, you would know that the word "slave," "slavery," "slaveholding," or some variation thereof appear eighty-two times among those documents. Eighty-two times. SC's gives it specifically as "increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the Institution of Slavery." Strange for a war that *wasn't* about preserving slavery.
That's choice, Mary. Have you ever read "A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of [SC, MS, TX, VA, and your home state of GA]?" Because if you had, you would know that the word "slave," "slavery," "slaveholding," or some variation thereof appear eighty-two times among those documents. Eighty-two times. SC's gives it specifically as "increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the Institution of Slavery." Strange for a war that *wasn't* about preserving slavery.
9
Really? Seriously? You can't be serious?
The Confederate States of America was established for the express purpose of defending racially-based slavery. The statements of the politicians supporting secession at the time make that very clear -- have you ever actually read the statements made in the South Carolina legislature when they "debated" their Ordinance of Secession. And while most of the soldiers (particularly the conscripts) did not own slaves personally, they also found the idea of a free negro population incomprehensible.
It was about slavery. Get over it. As the English are going to have to accept the end of the UK after Scotland votes in to remain in the EU as an independent nation.
The Confederate States of America was established for the express purpose of defending racially-based slavery. The statements of the politicians supporting secession at the time make that very clear -- have you ever actually read the statements made in the South Carolina legislature when they "debated" their Ordinance of Secession. And while most of the soldiers (particularly the conscripts) did not own slaves personally, they also found the idea of a free negro population incomprehensible.
It was about slavery. Get over it. As the English are going to have to accept the end of the UK after Scotland votes in to remain in the EU as an independent nation.
5
It seems so ironic to see those who voted in favor of leaving waving the Union Jack. One of the consequences of the vote will probably be the exit of Scotland from the Union. The Union Jack is the last flag that should be waving.
I am a Brit living in the US (since 1989) and I will probably have to return to England (and I mean England) as the British pound decline has severely affected my income. Ironically, I will better off in England since my US income will do very well in England.
I have been discussing the vote with a lot of American friends. It is like a death in the family: people do not know what to say. Indeed, a lot of my contacts simply have not responded to the vote.
I am a Brit living in the US (since 1989) and I will probably have to return to England (and I mean England) as the British pound decline has severely affected my income. Ironically, I will better off in England since my US income will do very well in England.
I have been discussing the vote with a lot of American friends. It is like a death in the family: people do not know what to say. Indeed, a lot of my contacts simply have not responded to the vote.
13
The bottom line is the world is changing, and no nation/people can stop it. Attempts like Brexit to maintain national/cultural purity anywhere in the developed world are doomed.
2
The world is changing. The house of cards is collapsing.
5
Looks to me like a buying opportunity.
I've got a bit of spare cash. I will add to my holdings of BP stocks and maybe add another British company with international operations, something like Debenhams.
The point? There will be a period of adjustment and then a new equilibrium will emerge, one in which those with money will make more money and those without will continue to struggle by.
I've got a bit of spare cash. I will add to my holdings of BP stocks and maybe add another British company with international operations, something like Debenhams.
The point? There will be a period of adjustment and then a new equilibrium will emerge, one in which those with money will make more money and those without will continue to struggle by.
12
The Brexit is more complex than the media's portrayal. I even believe that the whole anti-immigrant slant is a kind of "gas-lighting" used to discredit and scare voters. One thing I am awfully impressed with is the swift and fair voting that occurred and the 72% show of voter activity. WOW, they do democracy better than we do.
12
The Scots might disagree.
1
The Jocks had their chance and blew it. They had the chance to break away and didn't grab it with both hands. As far as I am concerned it is England and Wales together now, Scotland can disappear for all I care.
5
Over 24 years ago, we adopted a 5 year old child from a foreign country., an orphan who spent most of his days confined to a single room (or crib),not nurtured, not loved. Once the adoption was finalized in his birth country, he was no longer a citizen of that country -but according to U.S laws of the time he was not yet a citizen of the United States ( a situation we remedied as quickly as possible, after a required wait)
The law was changed shortly after that, thank goodness, making foreign born orphans immediate citizens of the U.S .,I can't help but wonder how Trump's proposed rules will apply to international orphans. Will they be seen as illegal immigrants? Will the new laws change the adoption laws, forcing children to remain in bleak conditions ? Will they be seen as a future "threat"?
Recent events support a growing xenophobia. My father was also an immigrant and a grateful and proud citizen of the United States. He give so much back to this country -and to its economy.
I fervently hope we do not become a country which becomes so xenophobic that we turns our back on the orphans of the world. I can not help but fear the worst.
The law was changed shortly after that, thank goodness, making foreign born orphans immediate citizens of the U.S .,I can't help but wonder how Trump's proposed rules will apply to international orphans. Will they be seen as illegal immigrants? Will the new laws change the adoption laws, forcing children to remain in bleak conditions ? Will they be seen as a future "threat"?
Recent events support a growing xenophobia. My father was also an immigrant and a grateful and proud citizen of the United States. He give so much back to this country -and to its economy.
I fervently hope we do not become a country which becomes so xenophobic that we turns our back on the orphans of the world. I can not help but fear the worst.
7
Right now, my thoughts and prayers are with Wall Street. Hopefully the hedge fund managers are able to cry into their remaining millions of dollars in this trying time.
18
It won't be long before Scotland and Northern Ireland, voting with the Remain faction, vote to leave "Great" Britain, which won't be so "great" any more. Looks like the sun may have finally set on the British Empire.
5
"There will always be an England," the old saying goes. In the aftermath of Brexit, if things unfold the way people are talking, that's almost all there'll be left of the former United Kingdom. Scotland and Northern Ireland are thinking of leaving the U.K. for independence and joining Ireland, respectively, and to remain in the EU. Today's London Telegraph also says Spain now wants full control/sovereignty over Gibraltar. Will Wales leave, too? What's left of the British Empire? It's been quite a long, downward spiral. At least they still have the Falkland Islands, the British Virgin Islands, Bermuda.... What else besides England?
2
Maybe London should secede as well.
4
Congratulations to the people of the UK for the right decision
16
A nation's culture resides in the hearts and in the soul of its people.
A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people...John F. Kennedy
We have judged, and as such, desire independence from an autocracy.
A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people...John F. Kennedy
We have judged, and as such, desire independence from an autocracy.
16
Would that "desired" independence be for the English, the Scots or the Irish? Because it can't be for all three.
1
This historic events showcases the very element every nation elites/politicians/bureaucrats are not ready to understand and that is every person in a nation is not a elite,liberal,philanthropic. An average person constitute the majority of any nation and all that matters is a comfort in their own yard. When they feel invaded, it is completely human to react in the way the people did in the UK. It's a sad situation but indeed this is what the bitter truth is and that's what was exploited by fractions who succeed in making the most of it and ultimately the downfall.
7
This exit seems to be more about the lack of democracy in the EU and poor response from the home politicians to the needs of the people. A situation that we, here in the US should easily understand. The racist tag may have been there for a few but I very much doubt it was a factor for many of those who voted to leave.
After reading the comments made by Merkel and Schulz, my thought is the British people did the right thing in standing up for their freedom and identity. Punishment of Britain (like Greece) and trying to scare other countries out of leaving the EU are not appropriate actions, the remaining countries should consider whether this is the type of "union" they wish to belong to.
After reading the comments made by Merkel and Schulz, my thought is the British people did the right thing in standing up for their freedom and identity. Punishment of Britain (like Greece) and trying to scare other countries out of leaving the EU are not appropriate actions, the remaining countries should consider whether this is the type of "union" they wish to belong to.
14
Why doesn't the UK have a re-vote? Since there are so many "leave" voters who are experiencing buyer's remorse today and who are only now realizing how leaving the UK will adversely affect their own lives economically, enough might change their vote given an opportunity to do so to give the remain voters a majority. As long as the government can put off exercising Article 50 until after a re-vote, perhaps this can all be averted.
6
Yeah, funny thing about voting. It has consequences.
9
Yeah, why not? They can just keep voting until they achieve the result you would like.
11
Yeah I try that with my Lottery ticket when I don't win. Take it back for a free go. Always wondered why they think I am a nut case.
11
I listened quite a bit to the commentary as Britain headed towards the vote. Most of what I heard could be boiled down to this:
1) Belgium telling England that they will be punished severely by the EU if they leave.
2) The rest of Europe telling the English that other countries will be worse off if Britain leaves the EU.
So basically it was a lot of threats. I can't imagine that sat very well with the English.
1) Belgium telling England that they will be punished severely by the EU if they leave.
2) The rest of Europe telling the English that other countries will be worse off if Britain leaves the EU.
So basically it was a lot of threats. I can't imagine that sat very well with the English.
20
Everyone in the UK should feel very proud. A referendum was held - men and women were allowed to vote - people were given the opportunity to have their voices heard, - their votes actually counted - there was none of this electoral college/swing state nonsense. The police nor the military were called in because those in power disagreed with the outcome. The Brits should feel proud having shown the world what the democratic process really looks like.
27
Scotland voted to stay in but now they are forced to leave what is democratic about that?
6
Two years ago Scotland also voted to remain in the UK, for better or worse. That's what's democratic about it.
15
You had your chance to break away from us and blew it. Deal with it.
5
There is nothing trite or racist about citizens who are concerned with the sovereignty of their country. The world isn't what it was. Immigration is no longer just about opportunity for hard working people, and the risk takers of the early 1900's. Incentives for illegal immigrants who break laws will eventually lead to the demise, and the culture of that country. An illegal immigrant who sneaks into a country begins that new life as a law breaker. Not a good marriage. A bit like catching your new spouse cheating on you during your honeymoon. Not a good start - and that reality has nothing to do with racism, nothing to do with being judgemental. Immigration laws need to be inforced, and borders respected.
26
So ultimately its all about anti immigration rheotics that paid off for such a great nation.Indeed the world is still skeptic on the outcomes of globalization. Well of course, who wants a competition for "who mows better in their own backyard". And to surprise, most of the immigration was from within the european countries itself (its an irony). Said that - "Good Fences Make Good Neighbors".
2
There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it. Oscar Wilde
How true, EU.
How true, EU.
12
It's hard to imagine that a 52-48 referendum in small country would have wide-spread repercussion throughout the world, particularly the financial sector. I actually believe that at the heart of most Brits, if they could afford to choose the life they would like to live, would be more like 95-5 in preference for Brexit. The pollsters, the media, global capitalistic machinery are really concentrated to the hands of a few elites and they don't really depict the silent majority. The reaction to Princess Dianne's death was a classic example of the disparity between British pretense and genuine sentiment, of the people, that is. If repercussion will be indeed global, it is because changes are occurring from within the British empire first, and not from any influence from outsiders, immigration included. These kind of changes in history tend to be permanent and not reactionary, unlike Trump in America or the Arab Spring. It can be silent for many years, but on a one-way trajectory.
3
Oh do shut up, stop running around in circles like headless chickens. This is BRITAIN, get control of your hysteria. We will survive, we will go forward, we shall embrace our future WITHOUT being under any yolk from Brussels or anyone else, the British nation has spoken, live with it, period!
39
But it's not Britain which made this decision. It's just England. And I strongly suspect that the Scots and (Northern) Irish are going to make their displeasure know in with some very pointed independence referendums in the very near future.
5
Scotland did not make the decision neither did London so the so called British nation did not speak.
3
And more power to you! I heard the news when my England-born husband walked in the door from his night job this morning, and it truly made my day. Couldn't be happier for you.
12
Actually I believe England should now vote to be annexed by Scotland. The Scots are smarter, better looking, and will soon be member of the European Union. And the Queen already has a home there!
20
You make a strong case, but why are you in NYC? :-)
8
It cracks me up whenever you listen to some rant by the losers in this Brexit result. It's all because of racism, xenophobia, anti-immigrant sentiment , blah,blah,blah, yada, yada, yada! No, what it is is people are fed up with arrogant, snot nosed elitists telling the rest how to live. Ever notice these same snot nosed elitists don't have all the immigrants in their gated communities. Their jobs aren't affected by the influx of millions of immigrants who will not assimilate and pretty much expect a free ride that the elites don't pay for, the average taxpayer does. The average person is fed up with elitists who feel they are smarter than everyone else and wiser than anyone else while demonstrating a complete lack of the most basic intelligence as to why the average person is so ticked off. The people have had it with the arrogant and they have had it with the tools that would stupidly follow them off of a cliff Brexit is a perfect example. Though I guess now that other countries want to follow Britain's lead and get out of the Union, they are all racists and xenophobes too, right? Some of you people need to pull your heads out of your rectums and stop believing your own myths.
48
They are elites because they are smarter. Can English make a strong Swiss style Helvetic Republic? We know the jealous racist haters are not able to do that. Not great. No empire. Not United. An empire of football teams. But first throw out those filthy foreign players.
4
Elites are smarter? Really? News to me, and everybody else. Except to the Elites. Of course.
15
I am impressed by how people ignore opinion of 52%
16
10% of whom are right now asking for a second vote. 52% is a fail or a fluke. It was a fluke the Spanish armada sailed into a storm.
Sorry. I will be enjoying English suffering.
Sorry. I will be enjoying English suffering.
4
Andrew, what kind of idiot votes thinking that if the vote turns out the way he or she voted, he or she will just ask for another chance at voting. For the other choice.
Does that really make sense to you?
I'd say 10% of the 52% are idiots.
Does that really make sense to you?
I'd say 10% of the 52% are idiots.
8
It is arrogant, and in many ways racist to believe a free, prosperous country must be forced to take care of the citizens of an oppressive country whose policies impoverishes its people. This is especially so since the globalists seem inclined to consider the poor of the country they want to use as a refugee sanctuary as unworthy of help.
22
The UK is over, this is just the first step. If Scotland leaves, that will provide motivation for Northern Ireland to leave. Then Ireland, Northern Ireland and Scotland will be independent nations belonging to the EU. Aligned with Europe. This mirrors the old Gaelic political alignments with Rome that English monarchs once resorted to torture and war to break up.
13
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If only we could have crammed a few million more foreigners into GB before the vote. Once the welfare classes and the immigrants outnumber the whites, there will be going back and we will finally have stolen Great Britain from the British.
Which bring us to our next point: Can we get another 10 million Mexican across the border before Trump is elected? We are so close to taking over the US at this point, it'd be a shame if we let it slip away. Can anyone think of a way we can suppress or eliminate more white voters?
Which bring us to our next point: Can we get another 10 million Mexican across the border before Trump is elected? We are so close to taking over the US at this point, it'd be a shame if we let it slip away. Can anyone think of a way we can suppress or eliminate more white voters?
20
Just checked my stocks.
This is on you, Prime Minister.
This is on you, Prime Minister.
6
We are loosing something much more important than this democratic groundless referendum: Lost a great and a resilient EU member/ partner. It is amazing how society still wistfully forget that building an EU nation has taken a lot of time though it took only a political referendum to knock down it. As a european citizen first, I do remember the historic, social, economic, aspects of the purpose of EU. Yet even UK did not adopt the € currency and negociated new terms in the EU, euroskeptic politicians have worked their way out by scaremongering the debate. I do not feel necessary to get angry about UK's choice but reckon concerned for the next british generation.
9
This is horrifying. The UK is one of America's most beloved and closest allies. My heart goes out to them.
9
Democracy at work is the exact opposite of "horrifying". You should listen to PM Cameron's dignified resignation speech. (Search for "cameron resignation" on Youtube.)
2
But will the new PMs concession speech (after the Scots vote to leave the UK) be equally dignified? I rather doubt it.
And don't miss Samantha Cameron's fab dress:
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/06/25/world/25Brexit-Blog5/25Brexit...
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/06/25/world/25Brexit-Blog5/25Brexit...
A commenter – apparently a young one – speculated that Brexit won because young people didn't vote. I don't know whether that was the reason, but his point is valid nonetheless: young people didn't vote. I think the "Remain" people could have predicted that if they'd just talked to Bernie Sanders about the California primary election. Polls showed him pretty much even with Hillary Clinton, or just slightly behind, but he got crushed. Turns out the many thousands of young California supporters, who assured pollsters (and Bernie) that they'd get to the polls and vote for him -- didn't. They stayed home.
Bernie learned a harsh lesson that night, and now the "Remain" people have learned the same harsh lesson:
Young people don't vote.
Many young people SAY they'll vote, but here's what always happens:
Young people don't vote.
Bernie learned a harsh lesson that night, and now the "Remain" people have learned the same harsh lesson:
Young people don't vote.
Many young people SAY they'll vote, but here's what always happens:
Young people don't vote.
14
Why is the media using the term "populist anger" instead of the more accurate, "hyper-nationalist xenophobic bigotry?"
13
What's wrong with wanting to be safe and have jobs?
16
There is something wrong when "safety" and "jobs" are only available to people with the right type of complexion. And that sentiment is pretty much the entire substance of the "Leave" position.
2
Ironically, I was watching an adaptation of Sense and Sensibility late at night when the results from Brextit started to pour in. At first it looked like the vote could go either way, but when I awoke this morning, I saw that "sensibility" (passion, anger, impulsiveness) had won out over "sense" (reason, restraint, social responsibility). I was shocked, just as I believe Jane Austen would be if she were alive today. In the novel, things didn't go so well for her character of Marianne when she only followed her passions and she needed her more reasonable sister, Elinor, to guide her out of a mess. Let's hope for an Austen-inspired happy ending!
7
And so Britain confirms its own slide into irrelevance.
15
You obviously don't know us Anglo Saxons well. We don't go out with a whimper.
4
Please, NYT. I know you have to make money and all, but can we chill out with the ALL CAPS END OF THE WORLD headlines for a little while? I'm sitting here trying to feel like everything is going to be okay.
11
That's what a headline is supposed to look like when an event occurs that impacts the globe. Sorry to harsh your flow.
7
"I'm sitting here trying to feel like everything is going to be okay."
You might do better to turn off all your electronics, make a nice cup of tea, and curl up with a good book.
You might do better to turn off all your electronics, make a nice cup of tea, and curl up with a good book.
3
This evening on Italian television, the writer and commentator Beppe Severgnini, a Remain supporter, said that the Leave campaign could be praised only for the passion they brought to their argument, whereas the Remain proponents,, specifically Jeremy Corbyn, attempted to convince simply by declaring "it will be a disaster." That wasn't enough. Communication, communication, communication with a big doze of zeal. A lesson for all, including Brussels.
8
Here I was thinking because they spoke the English language so eloquently, they were intelligent.
Stupid old me.....
Stupid old me.....
10
At least in the U.K. conservatism with its pandering to the elite has gotten some blowback. Let's pray that it happens next in the U.S.
6
I lost a mint in the stock market today. Does that send a thrill up your leg?
2
You didn't do any hedging against this eventuality? Who are you, Donald Trump?
1
Your cluelessness is self-evident. The vast majority of everyday citizens don't have a "mint" to lose.
5
Would this have happened if Bush II had not invaded Irsq?
12
Or if Hillary Clinton had not voted for it?
16
You certainly can connect the dots. Iraq war destabilizes Syria, stokes the jihadi flames much higher. Destabalized Syria and former Baath officials make for rise of isis. Civil war in Syria creates refugee crisis. Xenophobes, bigots and racists rise up in response to those fleeing the chaos that is the downstream mess from Iraq.
8
The comments about the vote for Brexit go on and on one about how this vote is based on bigotry, racism and xenophobia. And this is because the primary reason for those who voted Leave did so because they did not want the UK, and England in particular, to keep taking in more and more immigrants.
However these comments were written by those who have no personal knowledge as to how immigration has effected England thus far. The population of just about all of England's large cities are now made up of immigrants and their offspring and not those who make up the English people and nation. And this is because unlike America, where to be an American one need only to be born in this country, being English is to be part of a nation and people that share a common culture, way of life and history that goes back centuries.
In addition the immigrants who now make up the majority of the population in many of England's large cities have not only no desire to become part of the English nation and people, they despise them and live lives and lifestyles that are close to the opposite of what would be considered the way of life of the English.
No country, the US included, would be welcoming of immigrants who come to their country, not because they have any interest in becoming part of that country, let alone respecting its values. They come for no reason other than the fact that they can make a living there while going on living their lives completely separate from their new land.
However these comments were written by those who have no personal knowledge as to how immigration has effected England thus far. The population of just about all of England's large cities are now made up of immigrants and their offspring and not those who make up the English people and nation. And this is because unlike America, where to be an American one need only to be born in this country, being English is to be part of a nation and people that share a common culture, way of life and history that goes back centuries.
In addition the immigrants who now make up the majority of the population in many of England's large cities have not only no desire to become part of the English nation and people, they despise them and live lives and lifestyles that are close to the opposite of what would be considered the way of life of the English.
No country, the US included, would be welcoming of immigrants who come to their country, not because they have any interest in becoming part of that country, let alone respecting its values. They come for no reason other than the fact that they can make a living there while going on living their lives completely separate from their new land.
39
Your remarks show a lack of understanding of what makes America great - it is the blend of cultures, beliefs, ethnicities, preferences and every other distinction that may be drawn amongst people. To believe that in the 21st century, in a world that is becoming ever smaller, ever more connected, ever more unified thanks to the technological advances of the past century, England or any other country is immune to cultural change is simply naive.
I will add that no person has ever emigrated to another land seeking to become like those in the land they go to, they have all gone seeking better fortunes. Name a group that came to America (start with the pilgrims and work your way to the present) that came here because they weren't looking to make a better life for themselves and could have cared less about the culture of those that were already here. Sure after successive generations (fill in the blank)-Americans are more American-(fill in the blank), but as those generations pass, being and American is also being a bit of (fill in the blank).
If England wants to isolate itself, it will only diminish itself. I pray America doesn't follow that folly.
I will add that no person has ever emigrated to another land seeking to become like those in the land they go to, they have all gone seeking better fortunes. Name a group that came to America (start with the pilgrims and work your way to the present) that came here because they weren't looking to make a better life for themselves and could have cared less about the culture of those that were already here. Sure after successive generations (fill in the blank)-Americans are more American-(fill in the blank), but as those generations pass, being and American is also being a bit of (fill in the blank).
If England wants to isolate itself, it will only diminish itself. I pray America doesn't follow that folly.
6
Indeed - and US is experiencing the exact same thing. Immigrants here to work still flying another flag in public demonstrations, parents and offspring pledging allegiance to an enemy, wishing the destruction of America. Think Orlando. Think San Bernardino. Think Boston. There are many more laying in the weeds. Sadly, it's far too late. We could close our borders tomorrow - and will be paying the price for the next 20 years for this TREASON.
The Brexit vote, in the end, is a frustrated and impotent reaction to the unjustices and tone-deafness of identical issues in the UK and, ironically, will have the perverse consequence of hurting those who voted FOR it the most.
Time to reread the Tower of Babel. It appears the world needs to relearn that lesson - although the horse is long out of the barn.
The Brexit vote, in the end, is a frustrated and impotent reaction to the unjustices and tone-deafness of identical issues in the UK and, ironically, will have the perverse consequence of hurting those who voted FOR it the most.
Time to reread the Tower of Babel. It appears the world needs to relearn that lesson - although the horse is long out of the barn.
5
SG, your remarks show a lack of understanding of peoples who have come to America. Many who came in the 20th century enthusiastically embraced what they thought it was to be American. They wanted to break with the past and start anew.
In 1911, my grandfather came from Tsar-controlled Lithuania at age 17. He wanted to be American, so he Americanized his name and mastered English better than many of the American teachers who taught his kids (my father and his siblings). He served in the Army in WWI and was very proud of the fact that each of his eight sons served in the military.
Many other European immigrants assimilated the same way. Laskowsky became Lake. Janus became Jones. Steinweg became Steinway. Some changed their names when they bought their tickets in Europe, but the majority changed them during their naturalization process because they wanted to fit in and be successful.
American culture is wonderfully influenced by our immigrants. Yet some people who still live in their native countries emulate what they think it is to be American. They watch American TV programs, buy American products and learn American English.
In 1911, my grandfather came from Tsar-controlled Lithuania at age 17. He wanted to be American, so he Americanized his name and mastered English better than many of the American teachers who taught his kids (my father and his siblings). He served in the Army in WWI and was very proud of the fact that each of his eight sons served in the military.
Many other European immigrants assimilated the same way. Laskowsky became Lake. Janus became Jones. Steinweg became Steinway. Some changed their names when they bought their tickets in Europe, but the majority changed them during their naturalization process because they wanted to fit in and be successful.
American culture is wonderfully influenced by our immigrants. Yet some people who still live in their native countries emulate what they think it is to be American. They watch American TV programs, buy American products and learn American English.
6
A character in a Rebecca West novel said: "That is why Shakespeare is so restful, he never pretends that human beings are not horrible. All other writers pretend that we are all good fellows if we are looked at from the right angle. We are not." I suppose it is time for all of us--Brits and the rest of the world--to go back to Shakespeare, that restful soul.
6
About 95% of the articles and comments about Brexit spell doom and gloom for England, and almost uniformly speak of what this will do to the "markets." Although the markets are now woven into the everyday Western world through 401Ks, etc., how the markets perform ultimately are the major concern of the very wealthy and corporations, neither of which care one iota about the people. Corporations are things which move their headquarters and production around the world to wherever they can make a larger profit; as globalization continues, it will become clear that they have no national loyalty. And the wealthy elite? They like nothing better than cheap labor. So it is no surprise that the mouthpieces of corporations and the wealthy want to cast Brexit in the worst light possible. Regarding not wanting to be overrun by immigrants? Why is it that virtually all of the people fleeing the Middle East and northern Africa are choosing to come to predominantly Western, white, Christian countries? There are all sorts of other countries that they could go to (many predominantly Muslim), but they choose not to go there. People love to throw around the label "Xenophobe", but what is wrong with wanting to preserve one's national identity and heritage? If you think that being overrun by other nationalities won't decimate the heritage of the original inhabitants, take a look at what happened to the American Indian.
36
I've got to wonder why the working classes in Scotland and Northern Ireland didn't feel the same. Or how the government in London is going to persuade them to stay in the UK. The rantings and ravings of the folks in the UK Independence Party (which nobody outside of England actually supports) is not going to sway those people.
The UK is dead. Brexit killed it.
The UK is dead. Brexit killed it.
8
EU has always been a tale of two nations- the rich in the north and the poor in the south. Euro is too weak for the North but too strong for the South. For UK, departure from EU is easy because UK has its own currency. But for other EU members who are trapped in this uncomfortable union, e.g., Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal, they don't have their own currency and are thus unable to break free. To make the matter worse, all their debts are denominated in Euros. The most interesting question now after UK has broken free is whether other southern members will try to escape this union that benefit mostly northern European countries.
14
Is the establishment (pro-Obama) news media seriously greasing the rails of the 2016 Presidential Election in America by building Brexit up as a firewall against the state of the US economy during the Obama presidency?
I'm already hearing rumblings here in Washington DC. "Oh no, it's not Obama's failed economic policies that caused the worst GDP and economic growth and record income inequality...look at those Euros over there destabilizing the global economy...don't blame poor Barack Obama..."
Say it ain't so.
I'm already hearing rumblings here in Washington DC. "Oh no, it's not Obama's failed economic policies that caused the worst GDP and economic growth and record income inequality...look at those Euros over there destabilizing the global economy...don't blame poor Barack Obama..."
Say it ain't so.
12
Obama and Hillary are surely both to blame for the real 20% unemployment in the USA. Its not 5% as the news media lies about constantly.
5
Rest assured that DCBarrister, whoever he or she might be, is on the hunt for "pro-Obama," news media and other non-Republican usual suspect conspirators. This detective work appears to be DCB's endless pipe dream thriller, her/his raison d'etre. DCB never comes up with a single conspirator or one, itty bitty criminal charge, let alone a conviction. She/he -- DCB -- feeds off the thrill of her/his hunt even if that investigation goes nowhere and actually never takes place except in DCB's fevered, paranoid imagination.
7
A conspiracy behind every fencepost.....
9
This commenter has it right:
"Markets will correct, and lives will go on."
Of course, if the doomsayer comments are even half right, we'll first have to go through another world war or two, and watch as Western civilization comes to a screeching halt -- though we'll hardly notice since we'll be obsessed with the Premier League getting kicked out of European soccer (I am not making this up – somebody else did!)
"Markets will correct, and lives will go on."
Of course, if the doomsayer comments are even half right, we'll first have to go through another world war or two, and watch as Western civilization comes to a screeching halt -- though we'll hardly notice since we'll be obsessed with the Premier League getting kicked out of European soccer (I am not making this up – somebody else did!)
4
The destruction of the UK into at least two, if not three parts... "Tarnish [Cameron's] legacy?" Come on! Not even Chamberlain achieved that.
2
Britain's decision is courageous and right. The world's oldest constitutional democracy was ceding more and more power to Euro-institutions that did not have the same interests at heart.
While the disconnection costs will be high, they are nothing in comparison to the long term costs of staying, particularly the costs caused by multiple and confusing layers of human rights and commercial law.
The vote is not "anti-Europe", it is pro-independence. That said, the "fluffing" caused by multiple layers of decision making has held the UK back.
I believe that the decision shows just how sceptical people have become about political waste. Most of the "remain" group were the privileged holding power. They are and were insiders in a political complex who - taking things back to basics - enjoyed the frequent travel, cocktails, and canapés. Why have one parliament when you can have two?
While the disconnection costs will be high, they are nothing in comparison to the long term costs of staying, particularly the costs caused by multiple and confusing layers of human rights and commercial law.
The vote is not "anti-Europe", it is pro-independence. That said, the "fluffing" caused by multiple layers of decision making has held the UK back.
I believe that the decision shows just how sceptical people have become about political waste. Most of the "remain" group were the privileged holding power. They are and were insiders in a political complex who - taking things back to basics - enjoyed the frequent travel, cocktails, and canapés. Why have one parliament when you can have two?
14
Of course those in Scotland and Northern Ireland are going to be making exactly the same points when they vote to leave the UK so as to remain in the EU. With the full political and economic support of the French and German governments. "It's not anti-English -- it's pro-independence".
The real question is how the "UK" Independence Party didn't see that coming? And how far they'd be willing to go in a doomed attempt to keep it from happening.
The real question is how the "UK" Independence Party didn't see that coming? And how far they'd be willing to go in a doomed attempt to keep it from happening.
3
The sad thing is that this vote will affect the young Brits - who apathetically did not vote - much more than it will older voters, who will not have to suffer the consequences of this mess. They will be dead. But the young will find travel in
Europe much more difficult, there will be less jobs, less interconnectivity, less opportunity and less innovation.
The older, disaffected and lethargic Brits threw a pique fit and shot the young in the back just to feel better about themselves for a very brief time. Just like Trump enthusiasts in America, shouting and stamping their feet, in short, a tantrum, has been substituted for rationality and common sense. Everyone will suffer from this - more and more as time goes on - but it is the young who will feel the brunt of it.
Europe much more difficult, there will be less jobs, less interconnectivity, less opportunity and less innovation.
The older, disaffected and lethargic Brits threw a pique fit and shot the young in the back just to feel better about themselves for a very brief time. Just like Trump enthusiasts in America, shouting and stamping their feet, in short, a tantrum, has been substituted for rationality and common sense. Everyone will suffer from this - more and more as time goes on - but it is the young who will feel the brunt of it.
13
Isn't it a shame that the self-centered entitled Millennials didn't get their way?
Isn't it a shame that all citizens were entitled to vote including older people?
Wouldn't it be nice if the young people would care about anyone but themselves?
Selfish little prats.
Isn't it a shame that all citizens were entitled to vote including older people?
Wouldn't it be nice if the young people would care about anyone but themselves?
Selfish little prats.
11
Independent Voter's position seems to be a cross between Scrooge's pronouncement on the poor ("Let them die, and decrease the surplus population!") and a Monty Python movie ("Bring out your dead!" "No, no, I'm feeling BETTER ." "No, you're not; shut up and go away.").
A British Millennial was trying to make the same point early this morning on television; a bit more eloquently, but with an equal revulsion of anyone not of her generation. (She was concerned about the future of the "free fellowship" she had been awarded for study in Germany. One wonders whose money this largess may once have been before it was "released" from them for her benefit.)
A pity, surely, that the franchise is guaranteed even to those detestable citizens who don't perceive the world as she -- and I.V. here -- do.
A British Millennial was trying to make the same point early this morning on television; a bit more eloquently, but with an equal revulsion of anyone not of her generation. (She was concerned about the future of the "free fellowship" she had been awarded for study in Germany. One wonders whose money this largess may once have been before it was "released" from them for her benefit.)
A pity, surely, that the franchise is guaranteed even to those detestable citizens who don't perceive the world as she -- and I.V. here -- do.
5
It doesn't help to brand people "racists" because they think there is an immigration problem and think that maybe it's not a good idea to have porous borders that result in an increasing percentage of Muslims in a western country. Having concerns about Muslims doesn't make someone a racist. I'm voting for Hillary and despise Trump, but lots of people across the political spectrum recognize that loosely controlled immigration policies are something that could come back to haunt a country down the road. You'd have to be willfully ignorant not to realize that large numbers of Muslims entering Europe is not going well, is not likely to improve any time soon, and has the potential for undesirable outcomes, ranging from complicated assimilation issues to the truly catastrophic terrorism issues. The "west" has been more or less at war with Islam for 1400 years. This isn't anything new and it's not going away. The way many people in this forum throw around the term "racist" is a bit sanctimonious and seems detached from reality.
29
"Success is not final,failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts"
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
13
How about adding the new US states of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland?
7
Opposition to Brexit is based on two powerful interests of Washington.
One interest is the New York banks and Wall Street to eliminate the UK as a financial center competitor. The British only had one foot in the EU sandbox, because they were permitted to keep their own currency. The key here is that the UK does not use the euro and retains the power to finance the British government, instead of waiting for permission from Brussels. In order to manipulate the UK into the EU, the Brits were given special privileges, but these privileges don't last forever. The EU process is one of political integration. Jean-Claude Trichet, former president of the European Central Bank, said that to complete the political integration of Europe, the fiscal policies of all member states would be centralized. You can't centralize fiscal policies if the UK is an independent financial center with its own central bank and currency. The other powerful interest is Washington's intent to prevent one country’s exit from leading to more exits. This is why so much pressure was put on Greece to stay. As CIA documents found in the US National Archives make clear, the EU was a special project, to make it easy for Washington to exercise political control over Europe. It's much easier to control the EU than 28 separate countries. And, if the EU unravels, so might NATO, and Europe might steer away from another stupid world war.
One interest is the New York banks and Wall Street to eliminate the UK as a financial center competitor. The British only had one foot in the EU sandbox, because they were permitted to keep their own currency. The key here is that the UK does not use the euro and retains the power to finance the British government, instead of waiting for permission from Brussels. In order to manipulate the UK into the EU, the Brits were given special privileges, but these privileges don't last forever. The EU process is one of political integration. Jean-Claude Trichet, former president of the European Central Bank, said that to complete the political integration of Europe, the fiscal policies of all member states would be centralized. You can't centralize fiscal policies if the UK is an independent financial center with its own central bank and currency. The other powerful interest is Washington's intent to prevent one country’s exit from leading to more exits. This is why so much pressure was put on Greece to stay. As CIA documents found in the US National Archives make clear, the EU was a special project, to make it easy for Washington to exercise political control over Europe. It's much easier to control the EU than 28 separate countries. And, if the EU unravels, so might NATO, and Europe might steer away from another stupid world war.
5
Hmmm. Thumbs down to "multiculturalism" whatever that means. The elites in their gated communities love it.
17
Great....
Now how about we citizens here in America "are provided the opportunity" to opt out of the traitorous job killing trade agreements our corporate sellout "representative" government has committed to over the last few decades? My guess is the outcome would be the same... And that's exactly why they construct and negotiate these billionaire sponsored ripoffs in top secret.
And then these very same weasels have the audacity to label Edward Snowden a traitor?
Now how about we citizens here in America "are provided the opportunity" to opt out of the traitorous job killing trade agreements our corporate sellout "representative" government has committed to over the last few decades? My guess is the outcome would be the same... And that's exactly why they construct and negotiate these billionaire sponsored ripoffs in top secret.
And then these very same weasels have the audacity to label Edward Snowden a traitor?
21
In short, you want to shut down trade with your two biggest trading partners. Great! We here in Canada are fed up with having to accept job-killing American imports, manufactured by workers at poverty-level wages and with no decent health care coverage. And best of all, we can show Wal-Mart the door and get our own retail industry up and running again.
You, of course, are still going to need our oil, and now you'll have to pay the real world market rate in order to get it.
You, of course, are still going to need our oil, and now you'll have to pay the real world market rate in order to get it.
2
It's odd that the English support leaving the E.U. when not that long ago they seemed to NOT support India leaving the British Empire?
6
Not entirely fair. Britain might not have been happy about leaving India, but they ultimately let it happen. Compare that to what happened to the Dutch in Indonesia, or the French in Algeria. Or the US, when it tried to pick up what the French had left behind in Indo-China. Compared to those examples, the British exit from India was pretty mild.
Of course this wouldn't remain the case once the British army withdrew and the new Indian and Pakistani governments had the opportunity to really get torn into each other. But that's a different issue.
Of course this wouldn't remain the case once the British army withdrew and the new Indian and Pakistani governments had the opportunity to really get torn into each other. But that's a different issue.
4
The UK should know it's in trouble if Herr Drumpf praises what it has just done
16
How bad can it get? The US, Canada, Australia and hundreds of other countries are not part of the EU and their doing fine.
30
Bad example. The countries you cite are in free trade deals of one sort or another with their primary trading partners. Britain (or at least England) is now going to find itself locked out in the cold.
Hopefully the Scots and Northern Irish will be able to salvage their situations.
Hopefully the Scots and Northern Irish will be able to salvage their situations.
3
The first step on the road to being a failed state. Good luck, England. We may not be far behind with Trump.
10
Almost a third?
"Have we forgotten that it was this same rampant, rabid, and hysterical sense of nationalism that led to 2 World Wars and almost a third?"
Almost a third? I must have missed that -- when, exactly, did we all dodge the bullet of a third world war? I guess it doesn't matter, though, since it looks like we'll have another world war pretty soon, eh?
It's likely to be even worse than that, I might add! Someone predicted the Premier League will be kicked out of European football! Just like before Britain joined the EU! Remember all those world wars, and how English football teams never got to play in Europe? Surely you remember that! Don't you?
"Have we forgotten that it was this same rampant, rabid, and hysterical sense of nationalism that led to 2 World Wars and almost a third?"
Almost a third? I must have missed that -- when, exactly, did we all dodge the bullet of a third world war? I guess it doesn't matter, though, since it looks like we'll have another world war pretty soon, eh?
It's likely to be even worse than that, I might add! Someone predicted the Premier League will be kicked out of European football! Just like before Britain joined the EU! Remember all those world wars, and how English football teams never got to play in Europe? Surely you remember that! Don't you?
5
This is about democracy, not racism, despite efforts to distract with the latter. The other thing is that we've tried globalism for more than a few decades now and the bad has outweighed the good. Its time to move on.
24
The Queen of England is now the Queen of nothing. Scotland is gone too.
6
Scotland has absolutely nothing to offer but whiskey and scenery.
3
And huge amounts of oil.
2
And oil. Scotland has oil.
2
My goodness! It shows that?
"What this election shows is that fires of nationalism that have destroyed Europe twice in the past century are being stoked once again."
Who can doubt it, eh? And others say the Premier League might be kicked out of European football! This really sounds bad! If one hundredth of the various forms of punishment I've heard bandied about actually happens, the Brits may regret this vote! On the other hand, if it's less than one hundredth...
"What this election shows is that fires of nationalism that have destroyed Europe twice in the past century are being stoked once again."
Who can doubt it, eh? And others say the Premier League might be kicked out of European football! This really sounds bad! If one hundredth of the various forms of punishment I've heard bandied about actually happens, the Brits may regret this vote! On the other hand, if it's less than one hundredth...
2
For Brits and the rest of the EU this is stunning news.This changes everything-currency,relationships with other memebers of the Union,and maybe even their Goverment.Although this is such a major issue,I don't find the vote,"brexit",or the changes that are soon to happen the most interesting point on this whole ordeal.What I find the most interesting is how similar this situation is to Americas 2016 election.You can compare Farage and Trump in many ways. Farage says things that appealed to a crowd.A crowd that blamed the economy on immigration/health care.Just like Donald Trump will say over and over again that Mexican immigrants are "tearing the economy apart".People hear these things and run with it.They hear Trump say"Make America Great Again!"or Farage saying "Britain needs to be in charge!"And they love it.Another comparison between the two that interest me is the clear divide of voters.If you look at the ages of voters,there is a clear cut divide in the vote on rather to Remain or Leave.The younger generation wanted to stay but the older generation wanted to leave.In America,you can say the younger generation would vote for someone like presidential candidate,Berine Sanders.Maybe the youth,the younger generation is more liberal.Either way I find it shocking that here in America we think "how can anyone vote someone like Trump into office?"But this shows that people are scared and when someone comes and promises what seem like better things, they gravitate towards that.
7
World leaders were telling the Brits to vote to stay or else the sky will fall. All is well here in mainstream. Kudos to the Brits for being so brave to go into the unknown. This may be the beginning of a world revolution across the world against big banks, corporations and corrupt leaders that go into gov't penniless and end up multi-millionairs.
17
Not to mention any names or anything. Let's hope so.
2
This is what happens when democracy is actually decided by the mass many of who never vote and are not interested in politics. The rise of the populist let the exit happen a play on emotions .
I think they made a terrible self inflected suicide. Fear has won the day june 23rd so called Independence Day. Next USA ???
I think they made a terrible self inflected suicide. Fear has won the day june 23rd so called Independence Day. Next USA ???
4
how do you know these people never voted? Show proof please.
11
So, tell me, what is Wall Street but a huge emotion-riddled ongoing gamble? Why is that emotion OK?
5
Perhaps if the aristocratic EU bureaucrats in Brussels had not been so aloof, arrogant and condescending, this would not have happened.
I am no Trump fan. But the dismissal by the urban elite of the white working class voters as a bunch of ignorant racist rednecks, is what resulted in Brexit. These people have real grievances, and at least Trump listens to them.
I am no Trump fan. But the dismissal by the urban elite of the white working class voters as a bunch of ignorant racist rednecks, is what resulted in Brexit. These people have real grievances, and at least Trump listens to them.
25
Few centuries ago headline: "BRITAIN STUNS WORLD WITH VOTE TO LEAVE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH"
13
Hysterical much? They tried it out and found it wasn't a good fit, so they decided to move on. Now they are stained and doomed? You mean like Norway and Switzerland? Oh, the horror.
23
A consequence of Brexit?
"...work to kick the Premier league out of European football..."
Guess what? That ain't going to happen. Next?
"...work to kick the Premier league out of European football..."
Guess what? That ain't going to happen. Next?
2
Are they out of the Ryder cup?
1
The people upset are the elitists, the NWO followers. What is wrong with wanting to be able to decide your own fate, and your country's fate? Why should the UK have to go to Germany or another country to get permission and/or the regulations for immigration, or anything else for that matter. The liberals are beside themselves because the average citizen is rebelling and not standing down like they should (according to them). I hope the American citizen understands how important this vote is for us. I want my country back as much as the British citizen wants their country back.
So it will take time to get things together, straight and aligned. So what, everything that is worth something does. Good luck.
So it will take time to get things together, straight and aligned. So what, everything that is worth something does. Good luck.
10
"I want my country back as much as the British citizen wants their country back."
A few indigenous ancestors would like a word with you.
A few indigenous ancestors would like a word with you.
7
Your country hasn't gone anywhere, "disenchanted one." We're all still here -- young, old, middle-aged, brown, black, white, yellow, purple, green and Blue. Female and male, transgender, gay, lesbian, poor, middle class, upper-income; golfers, bowlers, single moms, janitors, Senators and everyone else.
We haven't gone anywhere; the U.S. Is just expanding all the time to welcome our new citizens and those who would like to become citizens.
Why so scared??
We haven't gone anywhere; the U.S. Is just expanding all the time to welcome our new citizens and those who would like to become citizens.
Why so scared??
1
Isn't this vote a mere representation of the demise of the political class, at the expense of our democratic values?
3
This is not the end of immigration to England. The only change is that the English, rather than Brussels, get to decide who gets in.
19
I see that the decades-long effort of the multinational corporations to brainwash the U.S. and European citizens into this "New World Global Economy Order" way of thinking has worked from the comments i've been reading here. Hook line and sinker, the dumbs dumbs of the world have taken the bait. Now watch as you all struggle to make a living, pay your rent, bills and forget about owning a home in some major world city. That's alright, it's "Globalization", grin and bear it, it's good for you, it's what's in trend now. Don't think for yourselves, ask questions, question and challenge authority, that might upset the international "AppleCart". We can't have that now can we? The young global sheep being led off a cliff by their corporate loving sheepherders. Better to be an "Angry Old Man".
25
Too much people are speaking about EU looking to benefits or costs. Fews look to the EU as a project (still under construction) fo preserve and affirm the West civilization values in the next (increasingly globalized) world. Good job, Mr. Cameron (and Queen Elizabeth II too).
The Brexit vote was based on dissatisfaction amongst the average Englishman on being left out of the wealth and influence within the UK, which they wrongly blamed on the EU and immigration. Ironically they were the people who elected Cameron's ultra-right wing government. If anyone denies that Cameron's government if heartless, ponder the fact that (thanks to government policy) between December 2011, and February 2014, 2380 people died within two weeks of being declared fit for work, and being denied benefits.
The Scots, who voted 'Remain', (and who voted Scottish National in the last UK General Election) recognised that the greatest iniquity in UK has been the concentration of wealth in the bankers and financiers in London.
The Scots, who voted 'Remain', (and who voted Scottish National in the last UK General Election) recognised that the greatest iniquity in UK has been the concentration of wealth in the bankers and financiers in London.
4
I want to congratulate the Citizens of Great Britain for taking their countr,y back from the liberal elite of the EU. 70% of those who supported exit said they had done so because of immigration. I am a progressive who had supported Bernie until he became apostate, I am not an Islamophobe, but what is happening in Europe is not a normal immigration, but a Muslim invasion, as has become apparent from the sea of young men with no women and children in sight, and from the riots, rape, and destruction that follows them wherever they go. The Crescent Project funded by Saudi Arabia, aiming at imposing Sharia law, according to Islam's fundamental principle "Kula dunia Islamia" (all the world Islan) hopefully has come to an abrupt stop yesterday in England. What will follow is reestablishment of national borders, and an end to the outrageous situation where beaurocrates in Brussels impose laws and regulations on against the will of free people. Tight your seat belts, it is going to be an interesting ride. Reversing the invasion of Europe might take years, but it is inevitable.
15
it wasn't the liberal elites that created the EU, it was the multinational conservative corporations and their political lackeys that did. Liberal policies had nothing ot do with this. Having low tariffs, cheap and easily accessible slave labor and removing unionized labor rights(which France is now trying to do) are the reasons why the EU was created.
6
And here I thought only Americans were so stupid as to vote against their own economic and political self-interest. This is yet another example of a vote for change based on emotion, not reason. Anyone with half a brain will understand this was a terrible and dumb thing to do. For decades to come, Brits will wonder what happened to voters in 2016 to make them commit such a terrible mistake.
6
My goodness!
I'd expected a raft of "The sky is falling!" comments, predicting all sorts of horrors. But what I read here is beyond my wildest imaginings.
I also predicted (and still do) that all this hand-wringing eventually will give way to a different type of comment, essentially "Well, I guess it hasn't turned out as badly as I'd thought." Can we just skip to that time frame? I think we've all heard enough horrible predictions. Apart from the inevitable world war, and the inevitable decline and fall of Western civilization, some people predict that the Premier League will be kicked out of European football! I think we can all agree it can't get any worse than that, so maybe it's time to just say "Duly noted," and move on.
I'd expected a raft of "The sky is falling!" comments, predicting all sorts of horrors. But what I read here is beyond my wildest imaginings.
I also predicted (and still do) that all this hand-wringing eventually will give way to a different type of comment, essentially "Well, I guess it hasn't turned out as badly as I'd thought." Can we just skip to that time frame? I think we've all heard enough horrible predictions. Apart from the inevitable world war, and the inevitable decline and fall of Western civilization, some people predict that the Premier League will be kicked out of European football! I think we can all agree it can't get any worse than that, so maybe it's time to just say "Duly noted," and move on.
11
That's all you got - bashing OTHER COMMENTERS?
Look, I know they're horrid, horrid people with evil-smelling teeth, but seriously?
Here's your three cents back. Bless your heart.
Look, I know they're horrid, horrid people with evil-smelling teeth, but seriously?
Here's your three cents back. Bless your heart.
3
Would Scotland leaving the UK be a "not-so-bad" outcome? Because the "England First" contingent just gave the Scottish nationalist movement everything they need to make that happen.
1
The English nationalists are responsible for the imminent dissolution of the UK. They also want to destroy the European Union.
The other Europeans should stand even closer together against those who want to return to the nasty place of wars, prejudices, tribalism, chauvinism, lacking cooperation, lacking solidarity and power politics which European has been during its entire histroy. The last 60 years have been an unique exception, not the norm.
The challenge Europe faces is how to contain those powers who want to return to these dark ages, again playing the great game: Russia and the UK.
The other Europeans should stand even closer together against those who want to return to the nasty place of wars, prejudices, tribalism, chauvinism, lacking cooperation, lacking solidarity and power politics which European has been during its entire histroy. The last 60 years have been an unique exception, not the norm.
The challenge Europe faces is how to contain those powers who want to return to these dark ages, again playing the great game: Russia and the UK.
5
The transformation of Great Britain into Little England symbolizes the paradox of the new tribal nationalisms. Seeking to reconstitute the political power of the Old Empire, they end up satisfied with the social power of a closed Facebook group.
5
Watch Ireland and Scotland hold referendums to leave the UK, join the EU, followed by the crown jewels of England, the London banks, completing corporate inversions moving HQ to Ireland.
Then, England will be a small country of shopkeepers again.
Then, England will be a small country of shopkeepers again.
6
It strikes me that Scotland thinks of England in much the same way as England (outside of London) thinks of the EU. And given the result of the vote in Scotland, the Scottish nationalist movement now a very strong argument for another referendum in the very near future. Sure -- the last one was only two years ago, but that was when remaining in the EU was part of the package.
The days of the "United" Kingdom are numbered. And I wonder how the UK Independence Party -- which would be better named "England First" -- is going to react to that.
The days of the "United" Kingdom are numbered. And I wonder how the UK Independence Party -- which would be better named "England First" -- is going to react to that.
7
This is one of the best things that has happened in Europe, since the defeat of Hitler. Now let's see how the remaining countries will be able to control their economies without sponging off the strong British Pound.
10
You're serious? German currency is "sponging" off the pound?
Get back to us in a few years, when England is locked out of the European market, the Pound Sterling is running at about 55 cents to the Euro and the newly independent Scottish economy is soaring, with your re-valuation.
Get back to us in a few years, when England is locked out of the European market, the Pound Sterling is running at about 55 cents to the Euro and the newly independent Scottish economy is soaring, with your re-valuation.
3
This election was not about the European Union. People voting for the Brexit were deceived by the Vote Leave politicians. Nigel Farage admitted this morning on Good Morning Britain that one of the main selling points for leaving was a mistake! He basically backtracked on Vote Leave's 350million pounds a week for the British Healthcare System (the NHS) hours after the leave result.
Link to video: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-result-nigel...
Link to video: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-result-nigel...
5
There is a petition, which will be heard by British parliament, signed online today by over 170,000 people, many of whom have remorse and want to change their vote, for an official re-vote to be scheduled because less than 53% voted to exit.
2
Next week we will be barraged with opinions of so called noted economist. Central Bankers were quick off the mark with their rhetoric. Clinton and Obama went around the discontent issue and talked of our strong ties to the Brits as if we didn't already know that. Then the big banks and the wall street snake oil salesmen will have numerous schemes were folks can recoup the losses. Thank the good lord we still have a ballot box, even though we don't have referendums.
7
I think that Britain dislike of the EU is because countries like Greece, Spain, Ireland could wrack up deficits and manage their economies irresponsibly and the rest of the EU had to pay for it. The EU was basically set up wrongly. If it wasn't for this, Britain would have stayed no problem. The immigration issue was just a side issue.
6
To all those extolling financial benefit of Brexit:
Just so you know, (formerly Great) Britain lost GBP 15b in one day today. This could have funded the EU payments for 15 years.
(http://qz.com/715845/british-stocks-lost-125-billion-after-brexit-or-15-...
And once the international banks and foreign corporations start leaving London for Frankfurt and Paris (due of course to loss of passporting), Britain will be losing multiples of that sum every year. British markets, labor, and import/exports are no longer going to have the freedom of the rest of the EU and are going to have to deal with negotiating country-by-country terms if they want to do any international business. JPMorgan itself is looking at somewhere in the 1,000-4,000 range.
On top of this, the flow of capital to Britain and foreign investment is going to dry up. Lloyds, Barclays, and other British banks just dropped 2500 bps today. That is, to repeat, the dominant players in the British financial system just sluffed off around 25% of their value.
On top of all this, the Pound just dropped to levels not seen since the Reagan administration, meaning that the savings of every British citizen has just had 10% blow away in the wind.
Now, tell us again how this is financially good for Britain?
Just so you know, (formerly Great) Britain lost GBP 15b in one day today. This could have funded the EU payments for 15 years.
(http://qz.com/715845/british-stocks-lost-125-billion-after-brexit-or-15-...
And once the international banks and foreign corporations start leaving London for Frankfurt and Paris (due of course to loss of passporting), Britain will be losing multiples of that sum every year. British markets, labor, and import/exports are no longer going to have the freedom of the rest of the EU and are going to have to deal with negotiating country-by-country terms if they want to do any international business. JPMorgan itself is looking at somewhere in the 1,000-4,000 range.
On top of this, the flow of capital to Britain and foreign investment is going to dry up. Lloyds, Barclays, and other British banks just dropped 2500 bps today. That is, to repeat, the dominant players in the British financial system just sluffed off around 25% of their value.
On top of all this, the Pound just dropped to levels not seen since the Reagan administration, meaning that the savings of every British citizen has just had 10% blow away in the wind.
Now, tell us again how this is financially good for Britain?
6
Perhaps not the island of Great Britain as a whole, but Scotland may well benefit. At least some of those firms corporations you mention will no doubt relocated to Edinburgh once Scotland votes to stay in the EU but leave the UK.
As a Brit I do not recognise the comments saying we are racist. We have had a concern regarding mass migration for decades and it has been ignored for years by politicans, but a concern for mass migration is not racist.
34
Why is this a big deal? A free and fair election was held.
No invading armies. No barrel bombs dropped on noncombatants. Some dangerous crazy people acting out in dangerous and crazy ways but no riots. No automatic weapons let loose on protesting crowds.
The English wanted out. The Scots and Irish did not. The Scots and maybe Northern Irish will vote to declare independence. And then rejoin the EU. The juicy fat English speaking finance jobs in London will depart to Dublin, Belfast and Edinburgh. The lives of other English (who never had a chance to get any of these jobs anyway) will continue unchanged. None of this is tragic. Most of it is just democracy.
No invading armies. No barrel bombs dropped on noncombatants. Some dangerous crazy people acting out in dangerous and crazy ways but no riots. No automatic weapons let loose on protesting crowds.
The English wanted out. The Scots and Irish did not. The Scots and maybe Northern Irish will vote to declare independence. And then rejoin the EU. The juicy fat English speaking finance jobs in London will depart to Dublin, Belfast and Edinburgh. The lives of other English (who never had a chance to get any of these jobs anyway) will continue unchanged. None of this is tragic. Most of it is just democracy.
21
A tragedy in waiting is now a reality and like so many I feel sad. If there is one lesson I took away from this, then it is that we often take for granted and don’t value what we have - even if it is a very special thing indeed.
To me, the EU is one of the most astonishing achievements in history – a continent plagued by millennia of wars, genocides and divisive nationalistic movements almost miraculously rallied behind the vision of a United Europe. So much of what I was blessed to experience so far in my life is a result of this vision turned into a reality – from the freedom to travel, work and study in other European countries over the many friendships I made with people from all over Europe to the certainty that another war in Europe is all but impossible because it would be ridiculous to even think of it.
I know that there are a huge number of challenges Europe has to solve not only since today – from a lack of political representation of its people over the economic crisis to the refugee crisis. But I am a European, and I want this incredible project to succeed.
This is why today was a personal wakeup call for me. I should not take this weird bureaucratic and faulty behemoth EU for granted. I should be grateful for it and do my little part to contribute to solving its challenges. I hope this day is the day Europe grows together stronger than ever - instead of the beginning of an even bigger tragedy which future generations would neither understand nor forgive.
To me, the EU is one of the most astonishing achievements in history – a continent plagued by millennia of wars, genocides and divisive nationalistic movements almost miraculously rallied behind the vision of a United Europe. So much of what I was blessed to experience so far in my life is a result of this vision turned into a reality – from the freedom to travel, work and study in other European countries over the many friendships I made with people from all over Europe to the certainty that another war in Europe is all but impossible because it would be ridiculous to even think of it.
I know that there are a huge number of challenges Europe has to solve not only since today – from a lack of political representation of its people over the economic crisis to the refugee crisis. But I am a European, and I want this incredible project to succeed.
This is why today was a personal wakeup call for me. I should not take this weird bureaucratic and faulty behemoth EU for granted. I should be grateful for it and do my little part to contribute to solving its challenges. I hope this day is the day Europe grows together stronger than ever - instead of the beginning of an even bigger tragedy which future generations would neither understand nor forgive.
14
Just when I'd thought you Brits were the new French, you go an do this.
Enjoy the freedom and independence, my friends!!
Enjoy the freedom and independence, my friends!!
9
For many their vote for Brexit was meant to be a kick in the teeth of the 'elite'. That they have laid the lowly paid and most vulnerable open to even more extreme right wing predatory capitalists seems not to have troubled them at all. When a majority votes for social, economic and enviromental harakiri it is pitiable. Be warned, America - be warned.
4
There are no imagined evils that are worth abandoning one's national sovereignty over. Better poor and free than chirping around in Brussels golden bird cage.
13
No doubt the Scots and northern Irish agree. The former get their independence (and their national sovereignty) back, the latter do the same by joining the Republic.
But I have to wonder how the "UK" Independence Party is going to react.
But I have to wonder how the "UK" Independence Party is going to react.
One day in, the pound is plunging, the FTSE tanking, the Scots want to leave, the Irish question has reemerged, and the Leave backers have already reneged on their £350 million pledge to the National Health Service.
Beware the false prophets of right-wing populism.
Beware the false prophets of right-wing populism.
6
The result of the Brexit vote is just this:
"Divide and Flounder."
"Divide and Flounder."
3
Tut! Tut! Cameron and all his upper-crust Oxford/Cambridge chums will have to retreat to their clubs, there to lick their wounds.
6
People are angry and waves of emotion can own politics and democratic voting.
Sometimes at the expense of common sense. The US is living through it's own version right now.
Sometimes at the expense of common sense. The US is living through it's own version right now.
2
This vote was about anti-bureaucrat and not giving away their sovereignty to globalists. The populists vote won ... people who have fought wars that protected their countries have found themselves without a voice in their own country. It is not in any way racist to be against open borders and, the fact, that globalists tried to spin that way caused people to wake up say ... Enough !
15
Protecting one's culture and identity is not xenophobic or racist. If you believe that it's a key ingredient to your success, then it's common sense.
14
It is a sign that people are fed up and want change. Whatever the outcome of this is in a few years, I applaud it.
11
One of the "consequences of democracy" is that all too often. it is your knuckle draggers who decide the direction of your country.
7
The Brexit affair and its outcome remind me of the old British attitude as expressed in a London daily headline of long ago: "Fog in the Channel, Continent cur off".
2
I've always thought that David Cameron was an empty suit, but now I've come to the conclusion that the guy is simply off his rocker, and now somebody will have to clean up his mess. For the commenters that think GB can go it alone, they would never have made it through WWII if we hadn't bailed them out with Lend Lease etc, and they were an economic mess for a long time after. So they decide now to roll the dice. Well, good luck with that. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail and they haven't put themselves on a trajectory downward from which they cannot recover. I'm sure Putin is having a good day. Now the Brits are on tv saying that they wish they had a do over. Just as clueless as a lot of Americans.
4
The global trend is toward inclusion--look at computers, phones, etc. We can connect anywhere anytime today. This is a stupid, regressive, ill-advised move. I cannot believe there are enough uneducated Brits to pull this off. So sorry for your country.
2
So people are uneducated because they did something you don't agree with?
Nice stupid condescending attitude.
Nice stupid condescending attitude.
17
The true culprit, Angela Merkel, is yet to resign.
18
This isn't so much democracy in action as majority-rule in action. The 52% that LEAVE received is hardly resounding.
1
Fair point. But 52% is more than 48%, no?
11
They may be fed up with a country like Luxembourg, that makes nothing, running industry. Bankers in control with media spin.
9
Britain is the canary. And the rest of us are the coal mine. Winter, also called November, is coming.
7
Democracy hurts sometimes, that's why our rulers rarely unleash it.
GK. Chesterton:
Secret People.
'But we are the people of England and we have not spoken yet'.
We have now.
GK. Chesterton:
Secret People.
'But we are the people of England and we have not spoken yet'.
We have now.
11
If this news has nothing to do with Trump, 50% (silly guess) of Americans either won't understand the story or care about the story.
3
Why do those in Britain want to leave the EU....
Perhaps like the middle class who are behind Bernie Sanders ; those in the
Brexit camp who voted to leave the EU...feel that they are ....not being listened
to...are being dictated to ...or ...are at the mercy economically and politically
of their privileged leaders who do not give them any quarter.
This is the same problem that Bernie Sanders has been addressing to the
the US electorate...there is no difference....Workers in the UK and Workers
in the USA are simply left out of the economic growth...and only those at
the top .01 percent ...are just getting richer...and richer...and I will
leave it up to Steven Erlanger to do some really good fact checking to
prove my logic..go to it Steven...and pitch in too...commenters..just do it !!!
Perhaps like the middle class who are behind Bernie Sanders ; those in the
Brexit camp who voted to leave the EU...feel that they are ....not being listened
to...are being dictated to ...or ...are at the mercy economically and politically
of their privileged leaders who do not give them any quarter.
This is the same problem that Bernie Sanders has been addressing to the
the US electorate...there is no difference....Workers in the UK and Workers
in the USA are simply left out of the economic growth...and only those at
the top .01 percent ...are just getting richer...and richer...and I will
leave it up to Steven Erlanger to do some really good fact checking to
prove my logic..go to it Steven...and pitch in too...commenters..just do it !!!
14
Like many Americans, you misunderstand the meaning of the term "Britain". It is a geographic term -- not a legal or political one.
It would be more accurate to state that English voted to leave. The Scots did not. Nor did the northern Irish, who although they voted, are not British at all.
The real long term consequence of this vote is going to be the dissolution of the United Kingdom. And none of the working class in any of those regions is going to benefit from that.
It would be more accurate to state that English voted to leave. The Scots did not. Nor did the northern Irish, who although they voted, are not British at all.
The real long term consequence of this vote is going to be the dissolution of the United Kingdom. And none of the working class in any of those regions is going to benefit from that.
I guess after partitioning peoples and societies the world over the desire to keep chopping at it is too hard to give up even when the axe is falling on one's own legs ! The funny thing is - the Scots yet again fell for it !
Thank y'all for tanking my 401K Brexit Yes voters.
3
After the Great Recession and all of the other "adjustments" we've had since then you still put your retirement savings in the stock market?
That's your fault.
That's your fault.
3
The fact that your 401K was affected by a British referendum is exactly why "more globalization is good" is pure poppycock..
7
So people should have voted Remain because of your 401K?
How self-centered and selfish can you be?
How self-centered and selfish can you be?
9
EU had a lot of turmoil lately: Greece and the flood of immigrants. No wonder UK got cold feet
9
Enuf said "You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time; but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time."
Let the British vote give all politicians pause, when they dream up the next mystery meat global treaty that purportedly will economically benefit the all "little people".
Let the British vote give all politicians pause, when they dream up the next mystery meat global treaty that purportedly will economically benefit the all "little people".
14
I'm sure that the northern Irish are going to be pleased to learn that "Britain" voted for anything. But we can take solace in the fact that it's probably the last time that this mistake will be made. They (along with the Scots) are going to be leaving the UK in a year or two.
Such bloody ignorance in this day and age that a small country can "go it alone." Ignorance, that is, on the level of Donald Trump.
3
Nation-states have never gone it alone, they interact with over sovereign nations. Today, only the bankers have lost.
9
Switzerland and Norway seem to be doing very well, so the problem is what?
10
We've always managed Ed.
7
François Mitterand used to say the choice is between nationalism and integration. He was speaking about Europe and added " ...nationalism is war".
Even if the EU has its flaws ( commitment to neoliberalism...paradoxically backed by Britain), forgetting the big picture is a historical drama.
I thought the Brits knew better.
And you can' t stop globalisation.
You can' t deal with the mess left by an administration across the Pond by closing your borders 19th century style.
Europe maybe a problem...but there is no other answer than more integration taking into real account the very questions that make some despising it.
No other.
Even if the EU has its flaws ( commitment to neoliberalism...paradoxically backed by Britain), forgetting the big picture is a historical drama.
I thought the Brits knew better.
And you can' t stop globalisation.
You can' t deal with the mess left by an administration across the Pond by closing your borders 19th century style.
Europe maybe a problem...but there is no other answer than more integration taking into real account the very questions that make some despising it.
No other.
2
A lot of apocalyptic predictions because of the vote and a lot of 'racism and nationalistic vitriol caused this' nonsense. Self preservation should not be treated the same as racism.
Well, we CANNOT judge what an average British person goes through. The long wait for healthcare, fight of jobs, the distribution of already thinning social welfare because of the massive influx of uneducated cheap immigrant labor, with UK having one of the highest immigrant /sq mile number in the world, should be reasons enough for them they part ways and think for themselves.
Now, the UK can decide for themselves who they let in, who they let work instead of some 'nominated' fellas deciding for them. So lets stop all stop pontificating on whats best for UK or what a sad day it is.
Markets will correct, and lives will go on.
Well, we CANNOT judge what an average British person goes through. The long wait for healthcare, fight of jobs, the distribution of already thinning social welfare because of the massive influx of uneducated cheap immigrant labor, with UK having one of the highest immigrant /sq mile number in the world, should be reasons enough for them they part ways and think for themselves.
Now, the UK can decide for themselves who they let in, who they let work instead of some 'nominated' fellas deciding for them. So lets stop all stop pontificating on whats best for UK or what a sad day it is.
Markets will correct, and lives will go on.
23
The UK isn't going to "decide" anything. Scotland and Northern Ireland will soon choose to leave England behind, and the UK will no longer exist.
What a novel photograph! Instead of mindless cool people holding selfie sticks, these citizens are actually waving flags! That will be happening here twenty Tuesday nights from today.
America & Britain will become great again together, and no elites need apply.
America & Britain will become great again together, and no elites need apply.
17
Brexit has become Breakit. It's much tougher to build than to destroy...
For those who insist that Britain did well outside the E.U. for a thousand years, humanity fared even better for eons longer, gathered in small tribes ruled by a strong man assisted by a fake wizard who talked to an obese lady.
2
Has nothing to do with race or skin color its about safety and jobs.
18
It's very simple: "Isolation is the beginnig of conflict, furthermore: isolation is conflict. " Quotation from:" Nobody can Touch The Rainbow"
1
I have to ask the many Americans deploring Britain's exit from the EU - you wouldn't for a second allow our country to weaken its sovereignty the way the nations of the EU have, would you? You wouldn't allow us, in an analogous North American Union, to have faceless bureaucrats in Ottowa or God forbid, Mexico City, telling us how to run our businesses, our educational system, or holy cow, our immigration system. Well, folks, that's some of what the 17 million or so Brits voted against in large part.
You don't hear many news outlets saying it, but this is as much, if not more, about sovereignty as anything else. This has been boiling for many years, despite everyone saying its about immigration and racism.
The people want their sovereignty back, something none of you would have given up to join an international union, so stop being hypocrites.
You don't hear many news outlets saying it, but this is as much, if not more, about sovereignty as anything else. This has been boiling for many years, despite everyone saying its about immigration and racism.
The people want their sovereignty back, something none of you would have given up to join an international union, so stop being hypocrites.
32
You apparently haven't heard Vincente Fox chide Trump how illegal Mexican should be treated nicer here while they invade us,
3
This is what the last three decades of financial engineering has brought. The map shows that only the wealthy - read Banking and not the Industrial parts of England voted to remain. Most of the country that has been left out voted to exit. The arrogance of London and New York that Finance and Banking creates prosperity has received a sobering reminder.
24
The Brexit vote leaves a country divided. The Leave campaign celebrate and tell us that all that the expert advice is just a storm in a teacup and all will turn out well in the end. They simply don't know and have taken our country into uncharted waters. Sadly they sold it and have led us into financial and political limbo which reverberates all over. Bold or naive? The latter strikes a chord with me and fills me with anger that our people could so easily be taken in.
4
How old are you Peter? I ask because that is usually a factor in a reaction like that from the UK. If not age related, it must be financial. I'm 49 and working class, if you are in the same bracket as me, then I'm amazed at your reaction here, but I digress. It won't be seen for a few years, but we will prosper, and be much better for it.
5
Which will be worse for working people in Britain? Remain in the EU which controlled by a certain faction of capitalists or Leave the EU for the UK political state controlled by a different faction of capitalists? Either way commoners will experience austerity, deregulation, and privatization. In the end, the vulgar nationalism of the British right wing appears to have carried the day.
2
The reality is that many Brits had enough of Brussels telling then what to do. And, Brussels has been demanding that other European do things repugnant to those countries. Just as an example Poland and other Eastern European countries were ordered to accept certain numbers of migrants from Syria like it or not and without regard to how those nations would be impacted. The arrogance of such decision making is galling to some. As said, enough Brits had enough of this. The loss of sovereignty was becoming too much. Americans would be very unhappy to lose their sovereignty in the same manner. The sentiment in the UK may well have been in part fueled by the migrants where the UK's own leaders failed to appreciate how the UK would be negatively impacted. Germany seems to have figured this out, but too late. Our leaders to not understand that countries are not obligated to destroy themselves because disasters and real ones to be sure are happening elsewhere across the world.
20
All those left wing liberal extremists who were so caught up in their self-aggrandizement and delusions of calling everyone else who had a different opinion right wingers, xenophobes or bigots carry the blame for this. This is primarily an expression of the majority of good and decent people whose voices have been drowned out for years by the left wing cacophony. Now these people have spoken with their votes, they wanted to be taken seriously and now they will be. Ultimately, it will not be to their advantage, but for the moment, it feels good, I'm sure. I understand what happened, as sorry as I am for it.
19
Yesterday, the Times predicted a turnout of 66% and indicated that a higher turnout would favor the remain vote. Actual turnout was 72% and, off course, it was leave that prevailed. Other than being totally wrong, I found the prediction helpful.
17
To paraphrase what I believe is a Monty Python sketch: in other words, it turned out just as the Times predicted, except the other side won. :)
4
the bookmakers in England had the "Remain" camp solidly favored as by interviews i saw a few nights ago on the major American nightly newscasts. So much for the bookmakers, they must have taken huge losses.
4
The future of the EU project is questionable, to say the least. Putin Rassia is smiling today. I believe the British people did what they believed to be the right thing.
5
This is what happens when those who have been elected to govern pander to the populace by relegating decision-making to it. Beware Trump, the Tea Party and those who passionately argue for causes or policy they can't even begin to comprehend.
4
Ms. Maddox either misreads the result, or misstates its implication. It is not "... a growing intolerance for representative government"; rather, it is a growing intolerance for elected governments which do not represent the people that elected them. It is the same developing trend that has resulted in the partisan divide and Trumpism in the US.
17
Amen! The One Percent still don't get it.
6
The drop in the US stock market shows there can be no isolation. The modern world economies are linked. We must learn to work together because we succeed and fail together. The UK could very well find itself soon pared down to an impotent half-isle of dwindling significance on the world stage.
6
who cares about the stock market. They have caused so much misery in this country as well as in the entire world it would be better if they would dissolve too. Big multinational corporations brought us to this moment in time. They need to be broken up a.s.a.p.
10
This is a buying opportunity, a chance to get into stocks cheaper. The stock market is the greatest wealth generator in history!
2
The referendum should have been to decide whether to take in migrants or not. Not to leave EU. They just burned the house blaming the bugs.
4
That was a decision the UK could have taken.
Each EU country alone decides:
The total number of migrants that can be admitted to the country to look for work;
All final decisions on migrant applications;
Rules on long-term visas – stays for periods longer than three months; and
Conditions to obtain residence and work permits when no EU-wide rules have been adopted.
Each EU country alone decides:
The total number of migrants that can be admitted to the country to look for work;
All final decisions on migrant applications;
Rules on long-term visas – stays for periods longer than three months; and
Conditions to obtain residence and work permits when no EU-wide rules have been adopted.
1
What about the savage irony that comes calling: a deluge of immigrants from E.U. countries will populate England before border posts will be put in place.
2
I suggest you get acquainted with the facts:
http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/who-does-what/more-information/explainin...
Ireland and the United Kingdom choose, on a case-by-case basis, whether or not to adopt EU rules on immigration, visa and asylum policies.
Each EU country alone decides:
The total number of migrants that can be admitted to the country to look for work;
All final decisions on migrant applications;
Rules on long-term visas – stays for periods longer than three months; and
Conditions to obtain residence and work permits when no EU-wide rules have been adopted.
http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/who-does-what/more-information/explainin...
Ireland and the United Kingdom choose, on a case-by-case basis, whether or not to adopt EU rules on immigration, visa and asylum policies.
Each EU country alone decides:
The total number of migrants that can be admitted to the country to look for work;
All final decisions on migrant applications;
Rules on long-term visas – stays for periods longer than three months; and
Conditions to obtain residence and work permits when no EU-wide rules have been adopted.
1
Because the Bolshevik Globalist cabal cannot believe that people actually don't want the nonsense they are peddling; they won't give up and go away. Instead, they will continue to bombard us with their grandiose plans, unable to deal with reality that we know they are lying, it's all a scam to cover up their real intent, which is to establish a world-wide government ensuring unlimited power and wealth for themselves with enslavement and extreme poverty for everyone else.
10
Selfish, individualistic, adolescent resentments & bitterness without much knowledge or understanding of difficult realities...these aren't sound basis for major economic policy.
Referendums look like a democratic method, but they are as dangerous as a drunk driver.
Fear of immigrants & changing socio-economic environment made for a faulty vote-- blue collar guys shooting themselves in the foot.
Referendums look like a democratic method, but they are as dangerous as a drunk driver.
Fear of immigrants & changing socio-economic environment made for a faulty vote-- blue collar guys shooting themselves in the foot.
6
I can hardly wait to see my beloved Scotland finally come of age and break the chains of English dominance once and for all!
It will be a beautiful exit, out of old England and into the welcoming arms of a new Europe. Prosperity! Let it begin!
It will be a beautiful exit, out of old England and into the welcoming arms of a new Europe. Prosperity! Let it begin!
2
What does Scotland have to offer?
Whiskey and scenery.
Whiskey and scenery.
What is most remarkable about all of this is the extreme over-reaction across the board. England is not sinking into the sea, what change will come, will come slowly other than the immediate ridiculous panic which is all too apparent in the markets. War has not broken out, Companies have not immediately gone worthless and all bonds are being paid. There is no crisis and the normal astute and democratic process will see Camerons replacement soon enough. Britain was a strong democracy and fast friend of the Americans and the EU before the vote, and will remain so without pause going forward.
14
Does it seem that most of the news readers and reporters on CNN have British accents? Strange, because they used to be mostly Americans with Midwest accents, meaning no accents.
Now, with Brexit, we should probably assume that we will be flooded with UK immigrants from the upper classes seeking more favorable economic opportunities, including safer investment options. Expect more English accents on all of the television networks and at your local TV stations. Canada can expect the same.
Now, with Brexit, we should probably assume that we will be flooded with UK immigrants from the upper classes seeking more favorable economic opportunities, including safer investment options. Expect more English accents on all of the television networks and at your local TV stations. Canada can expect the same.
1
Brexitis an economic catastrophe - but not spending half of tax revenue on needless wars, nor paying for the health care and housing of anyone who turns up on British shores, fleeing American bombs - is that right?
Curious.
One otherwise would think the true goal is to destroy the ethnic majority in Britain because, of course, it is "racist" to not commit demographic suicide - students at Brown "University" have told me so.
Curious.
One otherwise would think the true goal is to destroy the ethnic majority in Britain because, of course, it is "racist" to not commit demographic suicide - students at Brown "University" have told me so.
4
People should be careful for what they wish. The United Kingdom may be on the verge of becoming Britain if Scotland and Ireland vote to leave the United Kingdom. No Scotland and Ireland, no United Kingdom.
It's also interesting to note the people who were so hipped to leave the EU are now dragging their feet. Why aren't the leaders of the U.K. Independent Party and others pushing the leave vote demanding that Mr. Cameron invoke Article 50 so the exit can begin. It's obvious, the hype and the reality are two different things. It's just like Texas talking about secession from the United States and the reality of the secession. The next two years or so are going to be quite interesting. As the Chinese proverb is reputed to recommend, "May you live in interesting times."
It's also interesting to note the people who were so hipped to leave the EU are now dragging their feet. Why aren't the leaders of the U.K. Independent Party and others pushing the leave vote demanding that Mr. Cameron invoke Article 50 so the exit can begin. It's obvious, the hype and the reality are two different things. It's just like Texas talking about secession from the United States and the reality of the secession. The next two years or so are going to be quite interesting. As the Chinese proverb is reputed to recommend, "May you live in interesting times."
2
What is missing out of all of these debates is a frank discussion on the instability in the Middle East and Levant which is driving massive waves of immigrants to the West. Nobody wants another Iraq invasion, but a decade of drone strikes and unprecedented mass surveillance on citizens has neither brought peace abroad nor stopped terror at home.
6
What I find most disheartening is the demographics of the voters of which I largely didn't need to see to have already known. The young, educated and urban, living with the migrant population, voted to remain. Meanwhile, the old, uneducated and rural, living outside of the effects of the migrant population, voted to leave. It seems that those who will actually have to live with the effects of this referendum are on the losing side of it and that simply doesn't seem like an act of just democracy to me.
6
This is a catastrophe ! 10 years on we all will remember this decision as the pivotal moment of the second decade of the 21st century. As Sir Edward Grey, the Foreign secretary, should have remarked in 1914: "The lights go out all over Europe. We will not see them shine within a generation."
2
The European Union failed miserably to spread out the pain - temporally or geographically - that the transition to a smoother union required. Brexit is simply a frustrated reaction to that failure.
3
With the thousands of posts already up on the website, no one will read this except the NY Times monitor. Still, I have to record my deep sadness that the UK will leave the EU and then probably break up itself. The vote will have a profound negative impact on Europe. For the 52% who voted to leave, "Perfidious Albion" rings true.
6
Please remember that this was a referendum and that it is not legally binding. Only the UK Parliament can take the UK out of the EU. The result was very close. 48.1% of the voters did not vote for it. Even in England 46.6% voted against it. Parliament needs to think very carefully about what it does next, as that is a lot of people to go against. Of the Members of Parliament, 479 are for remaining in the EU, 152 are for leaving and 19 are unknown. Of the Cabinet, 24 are for remaining and 6 are for leaving.
5
In my opinion, the Brexit vote could go either way. Their economy could be destroyed, their trade business ruined, and their respect with EU countries diminished, or it could give them the freedom they've been yearning for. They would no longer have to take in nearly as much immigrants, which could help lower the unemployment rate. Of course, they would still most likely help with the Syrian refugee crisis, but wouldn't be as pressured as other EU countries. Their pound is already next to worthless, but I have a feeling that it will bounce back. Also, the Euro isn't doing well anyway, and the EU is a mess. All in all, it was a choice determined by the British people, who have a right to do as they choose, and I support them either way. Thank you for reading.
4
Immigrants can also help businesses thrive which lifts an economy and spurs more job creation. The whole thing lifts as economic activity kicks in.
It's not an either, or thing.
It's complex. Economies have many moving parts.
There is nuance in life.
Most people are not bright enough to understand how things work.
You could call it Brainxit.
As in "Leave" your brain behind.
It's not an either, or thing.
It's complex. Economies have many moving parts.
There is nuance in life.
Most people are not bright enough to understand how things work.
You could call it Brainxit.
As in "Leave" your brain behind.
Politicians still say what they have to say to get elected. Corporations still continue to make profits. The EU is manifestation of corporations here and across Atlantic promising economic growth and prosperity. What we got is a deep recession in US and in EU zone. We need to go back what we were few decades ago. The globalization destroyed the borders of the countries and that is precisely what the corporations want. They want to go a step further, they want uniform rules across the globe for trade and taxation. Country without borders is not a country. I am putting my money on Trump.
7
Well the EU is weak right now, and I guess the ball is with the remaining members to decide what they want as a future of Europe. They can make the Brexit as painless as possible, setting the stage for the potential dismantling of the EU by giving members an easy way out. Or they can decide to double down on the EU and make this as painful as possible for little England: encourage Scottish independence by making an open invitation to them, and perhaps Northern Ireland as well, isolate the London financial markets, revert to tariffs, no free movement of labor or people, facilitate the movement of refugees across the channel, cease political, military, and economic cooperation, heck, work to kick the Premier league out of European football. It would create a lot of misery, but it would signal to other potential quitters that there is a price to pay...I would also imagine that a number of other European cities would be anxious to take over the role London now plays as an international business hub...
2
This helps keep the news exciting.
If I were an Englishman, I definitely would have voted to leave the Union. The European Union has caused enough Havoc and suffering. Consider Greece: If Greece hadn't been tied to the EU, it could have let its currency drop in value and that would have bolstered its export market, reducing dept and stimulating economic Growth.
The EU is a mechanism which purports to further unity and consolidation but which in fact augments German dominance.
Also, if I were an Englishman, I wouldn't want to compete with Eastern Europeans, who are accustomed to much lower wages, who will take jobs from Englishman, by working for less and exporting cheap goods to England and by immigrating to England.
If I were an Englishman, I definitely would have voted to leave the Union. The European Union has caused enough Havoc and suffering. Consider Greece: If Greece hadn't been tied to the EU, it could have let its currency drop in value and that would have bolstered its export market, reducing dept and stimulating economic Growth.
The EU is a mechanism which purports to further unity and consolidation but which in fact augments German dominance.
Also, if I were an Englishman, I wouldn't want to compete with Eastern Europeans, who are accustomed to much lower wages, who will take jobs from Englishman, by working for less and exporting cheap goods to England and by immigrating to England.
16
Global socialism will never bring about Utopia.
11
Somehow, I suspect that when all is said and done this won't mean much. Europe is still Europe. And England, which had always dragged its feet a bit on the EU, is still England.
10
The elites who run the show don't like that the people are sick of their false promises of prosperity through globalism and diversity. Their is no tyranny more pernicious than that which poses as a benefactor to it's victims.
19
th only ones who prosper w globalism are th plutocrats who designed it for that specific purpose
5
arrogance, racism and anti-immigration sentiment win today in UK #Brexit.
1
You Americans do not understand why we voted brexit. It was not because we are against immigration its because we are the 78th smallest country in the world and our population is now 65million, we just want to control the numbers so we can plan our housing,schools etc. We also object to being governed by faceless unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, who we do not even know their names. Would you accept that I do not think so! We are not frightened to go it alone we have been going for over a thousand years.
24
th uk is 94, 000 sq mi, w 65, 000, 000
california is 164, 000 sq mi, w 39, 000, 000
california is 164, 000 sq mi, w 39, 000, 000
1
You did not make that argument with reason, it was open season on humans who don't look like you.
Meanerwhile, Leicester is the World's most diverse city on the brink of taking all the thinking away from India! Way to drop the ball, Crickets.
Meanerwhile, Leicester is the World's most diverse city on the brink of taking all the thinking away from India! Way to drop the ball, Crickets.
The decision by the U.K. to exit the E.U. is history in the making! This is momentous. As the second largest economy in the E.U. The impact on the organization will be extensive. The impact on the U.K. will be even greater!
The truth is we don't know how this decision will change not only the U.K. & the E.U. but the entire world.
One question is what will the unforeseen repercussions be for Britain, for Europe & for the rest of the world, which will now feel more pain & uncertainty about the future.
Dark days may well be ahead for the world at large as each nation, bloc & entity work to sort these changes out.
A big problem before the vote has been the E.U.'s inability to adapt itself to a changing world; both within the organization & outside of it. Will this be a wakeup call for the E.U. to reform itself? Or will the organization reactively try to cling to old behaviors.
Change is painful. Sometimes the benefits created by the pain outweigh the drawbacks. Sometimes the expected benefits are lost to unintended circumstances. On rare occasions, the chaos may create opportunities to do something new, bold & positive for many or even most of those affected by radical change. Only time will tell.
One thing is for certain, as of right now, by pulling away from a united Europe & from their own history of reaching out to the rest of the world, the U.K. has gone from being Great to being just Britain.
The truth is we don't know how this decision will change not only the U.K. & the E.U. but the entire world.
One question is what will the unforeseen repercussions be for Britain, for Europe & for the rest of the world, which will now feel more pain & uncertainty about the future.
Dark days may well be ahead for the world at large as each nation, bloc & entity work to sort these changes out.
A big problem before the vote has been the E.U.'s inability to adapt itself to a changing world; both within the organization & outside of it. Will this be a wakeup call for the E.U. to reform itself? Or will the organization reactively try to cling to old behaviors.
Change is painful. Sometimes the benefits created by the pain outweigh the drawbacks. Sometimes the expected benefits are lost to unintended circumstances. On rare occasions, the chaos may create opportunities to do something new, bold & positive for many or even most of those affected by radical change. Only time will tell.
One thing is for certain, as of right now, by pulling away from a united Europe & from their own history of reaching out to the rest of the world, the U.K. has gone from being Great to being just Britain.
1
To be totally self centered, Britain's withdrawal from EU is a huge loss of influence of US on European policies, due to our strong and lasting relationship with it. Of course I believe our loss is almost assuredly Britain's, soon to become England's loss. Scotland voted to stay in the United Kingdom because of having to be readmitted to the EU, now even the pro Unionist will have reason to leave. Is North Ireland and Wales far behind? Instead of Great Britain it will be little isolated england. lower case intended.
Has anyone bothered to read what the LEAVE campaigners advocated before calling the 52% who voted all kinds of names?
The BREXIT campaigners wanted to:
1) repeal European Communities Act 1972 Bill, which would end EU Court’s jurisdiction over the UK and see the UK stop making contributions to the EU’s budget.
Instead of all that money going to Brussels, it can be used to support a crumbling NHS infrastructure that cannot afford to care of UK citizens. It's common for emergency patients to wait in the hall for hours before an ER physician makes his/her first appearance.
2) introduce a law that allows the government to remove EU citizens “whose presence is not conducive to the public good,” by ending the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.
3) introduce the Asylum and Immigration Control Bill, which would end the automatic right of all EU citizens to enter the UK (staying there, and applying for benefits without having ever worked or paid taxes).
Imagine the Americas have our own EU counterpart, an American Union. Imagine the U.S. Supreme Court must obtain approval from the American Union Court over legal decisions that affect us on American soil. We can’t deport criminals back to their own country because we’d be in violation of their human rights. Or we can’t jail a criminal for long because he has a family and that would deprive him of his EU human rights. Yup! This is a reality for UK citizens.
Too easy to label the entire 52% as racists and bigots.
The BREXIT campaigners wanted to:
1) repeal European Communities Act 1972 Bill, which would end EU Court’s jurisdiction over the UK and see the UK stop making contributions to the EU’s budget.
Instead of all that money going to Brussels, it can be used to support a crumbling NHS infrastructure that cannot afford to care of UK citizens. It's common for emergency patients to wait in the hall for hours before an ER physician makes his/her first appearance.
2) introduce a law that allows the government to remove EU citizens “whose presence is not conducive to the public good,” by ending the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.
3) introduce the Asylum and Immigration Control Bill, which would end the automatic right of all EU citizens to enter the UK (staying there, and applying for benefits without having ever worked or paid taxes).
Imagine the Americas have our own EU counterpart, an American Union. Imagine the U.S. Supreme Court must obtain approval from the American Union Court over legal decisions that affect us on American soil. We can’t deport criminals back to their own country because we’d be in violation of their human rights. Or we can’t jail a criminal for long because he has a family and that would deprive him of his EU human rights. Yup! This is a reality for UK citizens.
Too easy to label the entire 52% as racists and bigots.
12
It certainly will reshape it. Once a world power, an empire, Britain is on the verge of ceasing to exist. There will be an independent Scotland, which will be a member of the EU. That is a sure as certain as certain can be. There will be a union between Scotland and Northern Ireland or Northern Island will demand autonomy and become a free state affiliated with England only for purposes of defense. That will leave England and Wales as small, unimportant island nations, impoverished, left behind in world commerce and advancement.
BREXIT was a vote not just to leave the EU. It was a vote to repeal the 1714 Act of Union that created Great Britain. There is no great in Britain today. In fact, there is England and its cousin, Wales, and that is all.
James Carville famously once described Pennsylvania, in political terms, in the space between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, as being Alabama. Turns out Great Britain, in all the space between London and Scotland, is also Alabama.
Oswald Mosely may be cavorting his grave and waiting to welcome the Nigel Farage, the British Fascist who accomplished what he did not.
But in all ways, BREXIT and its result is the canary in the coal mine for the United States, which now needs to understand the fatal risk that is Donald Trump.
Today the Dow fell 500 points on BREXIT.
If Trump is elected, the will plunge 5,000 points on Wednesday, Nov. 9.
This is what ignorance, stupidity, fear, loathing and race baiting achieves. Destruction.
BREXIT was a vote not just to leave the EU. It was a vote to repeal the 1714 Act of Union that created Great Britain. There is no great in Britain today. In fact, there is England and its cousin, Wales, and that is all.
James Carville famously once described Pennsylvania, in political terms, in the space between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, as being Alabama. Turns out Great Britain, in all the space between London and Scotland, is also Alabama.
Oswald Mosely may be cavorting his grave and waiting to welcome the Nigel Farage, the British Fascist who accomplished what he did not.
But in all ways, BREXIT and its result is the canary in the coal mine for the United States, which now needs to understand the fatal risk that is Donald Trump.
Today the Dow fell 500 points on BREXIT.
If Trump is elected, the will plunge 5,000 points on Wednesday, Nov. 9.
This is what ignorance, stupidity, fear, loathing and race baiting achieves. Destruction.
4
The EU has had problems for years. It has let too many countries in and it has created a lot of friction and resentment. The referendum represented a difficult choice between breaking a decades long bond and going into uncharted territory with likely negative economic consequences, or continuing to be part of an organization that is fraught with problems. The EU is undemocratic. It is understandable that countries want to have some control over their own borders and currency. If the EU hadn't expanded so aggressively and focused more just on trade it would have been more viable. You can try to blame the Brits for making a poor choice, but this wouldn't have happened if the EU didn't have such deep systemic problems.
3
There is much discussion here regarding possible parallels to the political situation in the US. Here is what I see as parallels. 1) Immigration: There is a concern about uncontrolled immigration in Britain. This is not always about racism or xenaphobia. In the U.S., wealthy communities do not suffer the impact of immigration on schools, health care, safety and the social fabric of communities. The wealthy do reap the benefits of cheap labor. 2) There is a growing anger about the lack of democracy in our political and social institutions. In England, people were just tired of being dictated to by the fat cats in Brussels. In the U.S., we are tired of the beltway elites controlling our lives. Our vote no longer counts. 3) In England, there was a dramatic geographic divide in the vote to exit. London and southeast England voted to remain in the EU. No surprise there as that region has benefited and grown in wealth. In other parts of England, one finds joblessness and cities that are destitute. Those areas voted to exit. The political elite have just ignored this reality. Likewise in the U.S., cities on both coasts are doing well. Meanwhile, in the heartland, many cities are shadows of their past. 4) There have been sneering comments about how the elderly voted to exit while the young voted to remain. Well, perhaps the elderly in England have a little bit of wisdom that the youth do not.
13
European leaders have handled the political and economic integration of Europe very badly and in many ways. Hopefully, the Brexit vote will be the shock needed to make badly needed reforms aimed at improving the lives of European citizens and provide a basis for Britain to rejoin a more effective EU at some future point.
5
What this election shows is that fires of nationalism that have destroyed Europe twice in the past century are being stoked once again. This means that a third world war is inevitable, because the battle for resources, wealth, and power will be fought within the context of nationalism, not a shared future. The generation of politicians we see today, despicable demagogues like Donald Trump in the US, will feed off the bigotry and fear of the little minds that seem to dominate the polls. It is inevitable that nationalism will once again raise the altars self-interest and greed, the same pathway to domination that lifted Adolph Hitler to power and launched WW2. The current generation of self-absorbed, narcissistic, gadget addicts has forgotten the lessons of the 20th century that are drenched in the blood and ashes of the Continent. They are doomed to repeat history.
4
What we're witnessing is the beginning of a "revolt" against the continuing expansion of the power wielded by international cartels, with their increasing wealth as their only objective, at the expense of working people and sovereign nations.
We've been fed a fairy tale about how knocking down walls and borders will lead to increased prosperity and peace for all, but it hasn't come true, nor will it ever. Those in power aren't immune from the adage: "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely", and they became drunk with it, ignoring the decades long unfairness that the majority of people have endured, while they became obscenely wealthy. But now the "chickens have come home to roost."
Brexit is just the first domino to fall.
We've been fed a fairy tale about how knocking down walls and borders will lead to increased prosperity and peace for all, but it hasn't come true, nor will it ever. Those in power aren't immune from the adage: "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely", and they became drunk with it, ignoring the decades long unfairness that the majority of people have endured, while they became obscenely wealthy. But now the "chickens have come home to roost."
Brexit is just the first domino to fall.
11
I find these assumptions that all pro-Brexit voters are racists and xenophobes to be simplistic and insulting. The attempted linkage with Trump supporters is particularly fatuous. 17 million people voted to leave and they had every right to vote their conscience. Surely not all of them deserve to be demeaned as racists and jingoists. There are good reasons to want a divorce from Europe other than xenophobia. I've visited the UK many times (chiefly London, granted) and found it overall to be a diverse, polyglot, multicultural and tolerant society.
7
Fear is the go-to emotion that government preys upon. It's so reliable.
Government's sales pitch is that you need them. It is they who will protect you from a never-ending carousel of fears.
Government has nothing of its own. It produces nothing. Everything that it has it must take from its victims by force. A pipeline of fear stands readily available to them with excuses to justify their theft. Fear is the currency used in the exchange of liberty for power.
Thankfully, we have just witnessed an historic moment. British citizens have voted to leave the European Union!
A gigantic lesson can be learned from this event. It proves that fear-mongering has its limits. It's not fool-proof.
The propaganda used to get British citizens to stay in the European Union was astounding. It was around-the-clock and relentless. Even here in America, politicians and their subservient media were walking lockstep with each other in telling us why Britain should stick with the political elite's plan for the massive centralization of power.
Political power should be as decentralized as possible. The further away the power center from the individual, the harder it is to change it - on a global scale, it becomes impossible to change.
Naturally, those who have a lust for power also have a lust for global government. Britain's vote threw a major monkey wrench into the scheme.
Will others follow and cascade away from elitist "globalism"?
We can only hope.
But for now
Government's sales pitch is that you need them. It is they who will protect you from a never-ending carousel of fears.
Government has nothing of its own. It produces nothing. Everything that it has it must take from its victims by force. A pipeline of fear stands readily available to them with excuses to justify their theft. Fear is the currency used in the exchange of liberty for power.
Thankfully, we have just witnessed an historic moment. British citizens have voted to leave the European Union!
A gigantic lesson can be learned from this event. It proves that fear-mongering has its limits. It's not fool-proof.
The propaganda used to get British citizens to stay in the European Union was astounding. It was around-the-clock and relentless. Even here in America, politicians and their subservient media were walking lockstep with each other in telling us why Britain should stick with the political elite's plan for the massive centralization of power.
Political power should be as decentralized as possible. The further away the power center from the individual, the harder it is to change it - on a global scale, it becomes impossible to change.
Naturally, those who have a lust for power also have a lust for global government. Britain's vote threw a major monkey wrench into the scheme.
Will others follow and cascade away from elitist "globalism"?
We can only hope.
But for now
2
At the end of the day this divorce will be good for the EU because it can finally enact the financial regulations they would like to have in place and that were always blocked by the city. In other words: kiss goodbye to anglo american neoliberalism and war mongering that has been so damaging for the world and has been mostly opposed by continental Europe since the days of the Irak invasion. Even the latest animosities with Russia have mainly been pushed on Europe by a US/UK dominated Nato, when most European really would like to do business with Russia.
3
Another giant mistake Cameron made, in addition to holding the referendum at all: making withdrawal from the EU require a 60%, if not two-thirds vote. Something as earthshaking as this should never be decided by a bare majority of voters. Those on the losing side are almost as numerous as the winners, and they shouldn't be made to suffer along with them unless the margin of victory is far more substantial than 52-48.
3
Fear is the go-to emotion that government preys upon. It's so reliable.
Government's sales pitch is that you need them. It is they who will protect you from a never-ending carousel of fears.
Government has nothing of its own. It produces nothing. Everything that it has it must take from its victims by force. A pipeline of fear stands readily available to them with excuses to justify their theft. Fear is the currency used in the exchange of liberty for power.
A gigantic lesson can be learned from this event. It proves that fear-mongering has its limits. It's not fool-proof.
The propaganda used to get British citizens to stay in the European Union was astounding. It was around-the-clock and relentless - politicians and their subservient media were walking lockstep with each other in telling us why Britain should stick with the political elite's plan for the massive centralization of power.
Political power should be as decentralized as possible. The further away the power center from the individual, the harder it is to change it - on a global scale, it becomes impossible to change.
Naturally, those who have a lust for power also have a lust for global government. Britain's vote threw a major monkey wrench into the scheme.
Will others follow and cascade away from elitist "globalism"?
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons...
We can only hope.
Government's sales pitch is that you need them. It is they who will protect you from a never-ending carousel of fears.
Government has nothing of its own. It produces nothing. Everything that it has it must take from its victims by force. A pipeline of fear stands readily available to them with excuses to justify their theft. Fear is the currency used in the exchange of liberty for power.
A gigantic lesson can be learned from this event. It proves that fear-mongering has its limits. It's not fool-proof.
The propaganda used to get British citizens to stay in the European Union was astounding. It was around-the-clock and relentless - politicians and their subservient media were walking lockstep with each other in telling us why Britain should stick with the political elite's plan for the massive centralization of power.
Political power should be as decentralized as possible. The further away the power center from the individual, the harder it is to change it - on a global scale, it becomes impossible to change.
Naturally, those who have a lust for power also have a lust for global government. Britain's vote threw a major monkey wrench into the scheme.
Will others follow and cascade away from elitist "globalism"?
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons...
We can only hope.
5
No clear path here. The EU is certainly a flawed organization. It assumes a greater degree of internationalism (or post-nationalism) among its members than actually exists. Its isolated, technocratic leadership compromises its effectiveness and relevance in today's world of mass movements facilitated by social media. Meanwhile Britain has not gotten over the end of the Empire, and overestimates its potential to go it alone. Doing so will be even harder when it loses Scotland, runs into barriers developing free trade with the US, and is no longer "the fifth largest economy in the world."
It would appear that the British have made things harder for themselves, at least for now. Time will tell whether it was worth it.
It would appear that the British have made things harder for themselves, at least for now. Time will tell whether it was worth it.
2
Britain has collectively decided to become a timid, isolated, xenophobic island nation, instead of a world leader and head of Europe's financial market.
It is pathetic and sad and pitiful to foreign onlookers. But as we citizens of other nations shake our heads in disgust, we shed not a tear for our distant cousins nor do we grieve for the ignoble fate to which Britain has now consigned itself. Rather we look in horror and worry that the dumpster fire that their political, financial and cultural dysfunction has just ignited will spread beyond their shrunken and withered nation.
As even Scotland looks to secede from formerly Great Britain, the empire upon which the sun never set will now fade away not with a bang but with a whimper, done away not by an external threat, but by internal fear, anger, and stupidity.
It is pathetic and sad and pitiful to foreign onlookers. But as we citizens of other nations shake our heads in disgust, we shed not a tear for our distant cousins nor do we grieve for the ignoble fate to which Britain has now consigned itself. Rather we look in horror and worry that the dumpster fire that their political, financial and cultural dysfunction has just ignited will spread beyond their shrunken and withered nation.
As even Scotland looks to secede from formerly Great Britain, the empire upon which the sun never set will now fade away not with a bang but with a whimper, done away not by an external threat, but by internal fear, anger, and stupidity.
4
What the "intellectual elite" on the "left" and the "right" fail to recognize is that people are fearful and do not trust the their governments and institutions to protect them.
In Great Britain the "educated", "urban" types have good paying jobs and opportunities. Many others don't (at least 51% don't). These "have nots" in terms of jobs and "education" need a change. Some are of these "have nots" are racists and xenophobic but that is not the issue.
If you are a "have not" in Great Britain your children are raised in poor communities, with poor schools and will take a test as a teenager that will career path them to low paying job with high unemployment rates. Those are facts.
As they look out their windows they see new immigrants come in, crowd out lower paying jobs, create insular communities and receive great benefits without having to work for them ... and they know that the money paying for the benefits for the immigrants could be spent on the future of their children.
Then they get to vote ... continue the status quo or not. And vote they did.
Too often the intellectual elite - safe in their gated communities, doorman buildings - insulated from the competition and realities of the "uneducated" "working masses" fail to understand that the collective "we" have failed them. We are "worldly" in perspective when many of them are focused on paying the rent.
In Great Britain the "educated", "urban" types have good paying jobs and opportunities. Many others don't (at least 51% don't). These "have nots" in terms of jobs and "education" need a change. Some are of these "have nots" are racists and xenophobic but that is not the issue.
If you are a "have not" in Great Britain your children are raised in poor communities, with poor schools and will take a test as a teenager that will career path them to low paying job with high unemployment rates. Those are facts.
As they look out their windows they see new immigrants come in, crowd out lower paying jobs, create insular communities and receive great benefits without having to work for them ... and they know that the money paying for the benefits for the immigrants could be spent on the future of their children.
Then they get to vote ... continue the status quo or not. And vote they did.
Too often the intellectual elite - safe in their gated communities, doorman buildings - insulated from the competition and realities of the "uneducated" "working masses" fail to understand that the collective "we" have failed them. We are "worldly" in perspective when many of them are focused on paying the rent.
8
It's a failure of the ruling class and political elite to exercise clear rationale and strategies to the masses over immigration. Quit blaming racism and xenophobia. When one is locked behind posh estate or in a sky high tower in Manhattan, it's quite easy to call a working class person racist when he simply doesn't want to see his neighborhood turn into a slum where no rules are enforced. The elite don't have to encounter the runoff of the laws they implement. They live in a bubble. They can afford to be liberal in words to perhaps cleanse the sins of their deeds that garnered them wealth and privilege. I'm all for immigration, but there's no plan, no acceptable platform that takes in consideration the fears and need of the average working person. They simply keep dumping more and more people from other countries who then demand we comply with their way. The politicians have failed. The people have spoken, perhaps not for the best either. But this is what happens when a group of citizens is ignored and abused. The United States should take note here. For the record, I'm a working class Democrat, but enough is enough.
18
Norway has twice refused to join the EU. The strongest reason for mos of us no-sayers was the impression that the EU was an extremely rigid block with political decisions determined not by elected representatives, but by bureaucrats in Brussels. Saying no to joining the EU was not a simple or easy decision. Obviously there were pros and cons, as is always the case.
I believe that a large number of Britons have said no to the EU for exactly the same main reason that we had in 1972/94. An this is the result of the EU not cleaning up its act, becoming a truly representative democracy. They have had the chance to do so for more than 40 years, but it has not happened. The decision makers have too strongly enjoyed their power.
Of course there are murky fascist reasons as well. But the rulers of the EU have supported these groups by their lack of committment to real representative democracy. So if EU splits up they have only themselves to blame. An indeed they should be blamed.
I believe that a large number of Britons have said no to the EU for exactly the same main reason that we had in 1972/94. An this is the result of the EU not cleaning up its act, becoming a truly representative democracy. They have had the chance to do so for more than 40 years, but it has not happened. The decision makers have too strongly enjoyed their power.
Of course there are murky fascist reasons as well. But the rulers of the EU have supported these groups by their lack of committment to real representative democracy. So if EU splits up they have only themselves to blame. An indeed they should be blamed.
9
So UK doesn't have to be responsible for bailing out Greece again and again?
Sounds like a smart move to me. EU isn't everything. Ultimately, freedom to choose your destiny. They made their decision, obviously not everything is about economics. Sometimes, they just want their society to stay the home they know it is. What's wrong with that?
Sounds like a smart move to me. EU isn't everything. Ultimately, freedom to choose your destiny. They made their decision, obviously not everything is about economics. Sometimes, they just want their society to stay the home they know it is. What's wrong with that?
3
The victory for "Leave" was powered by the non-London English and by the Welsh, and their discontent is representative of the discontent that many people, in many countries, feel toward their governments and the other institutions influencing their lives today. It is clear that the non-London English and the Welsh felt that not only Brussels but also London had become disconnected from them. Brussels is the common villain for the discontented on the continent, but those of the same nationality reserve a large share of discontent for their national leadership too. In the U.S., many feel that the New York establishment (i.e. Wall Street) and Washington have become disconnected from them.
The common thread running through all this is that a large segment of the people feel like their own government (and also the EU, for those in Europe) do not adequately represent them anymore and are completely indifferent to their concerns. I don't think such a sentiment has been as widespread in so many countries since the period between the two World Wars - and we all know where that ultimately led.
The common thread running through all this is that a large segment of the people feel like their own government (and also the EU, for those in Europe) do not adequately represent them anymore and are completely indifferent to their concerns. I don't think such a sentiment has been as widespread in so many countries since the period between the two World Wars - and we all know where that ultimately led.
7
A win for the anti-immigration "block". And a win for Trump, by association.
2
Why the shock, the UK never fully signed up to the Maastricht treaty, never joined the Euro, has consistently polled in favour of restricting EU controls while the leave/remain polls were always within the margins of error to a tie break. Surely this wasn't completely unexpected? The UK was never a fully paid up member of something that is now seen to be failing across the continent. We don't like scare tactics in our politics and the remain campaign went dirty early and peaked too soon. Don't believe this was driven by xenophobia, thats the easy way out. The UK has taken in millions of people from within and outside the EU for decades, and we have a fairly harmonious society. This was about the elite - today every remain leaning newspaper has carried polls (by the same guys who predicted remain would win) that say the more educated the voter the less likely to vote leave. Well half the adult population of the UK has just been called stupid for exercising their democratic right to shake things up, because they didn't feel the status quo supported them. Thats the standard of debate that lead those outside the political/economic elite (London) to stick two fingers up at the establishment.
5
The Brexit was decided by the age group 65+. That's the people that soon will leave not only the E.U. but also this world. Not fair for the rest of the British population.
1
Those who can't take a little rain, shouldn't reign!
1
There are more young than old in the UK.
So, how many young people, who are allegedly all for the Remain camp, voted?
If it turns out the % is low then they only themselves to blame.
As for the 65+ they could easily live another 20 years - plus a democratic vote is not a democratic vote when you start excluding people. That is a very ugly and slippery slope.
So, how many young people, who are allegedly all for the Remain camp, voted?
If it turns out the % is low then they only themselves to blame.
As for the 65+ they could easily live another 20 years - plus a democratic vote is not a democratic vote when you start excluding people. That is a very ugly and slippery slope.
2
The UK had all the joy and none of the downsides: no Euro currency adoption, no fiscal compact, no Financial Stability Fund, no Schengen Area membership and yet decided to leave the Union.
Imagine Kansas that after obtained special concessions, more fiscal benefits and larger authonomy, still complains and threatens to leave the US.
You can't pretend to be part of a community while slapping in the face all the other member states and 450 million people.
Imagine Kansas that after obtained special concessions, more fiscal benefits and larger authonomy, still complains and threatens to leave the US.
You can't pretend to be part of a community while slapping in the face all the other member states and 450 million people.
1
I always knew the U.K. was a haven for racial and religious intolerance, but I never realized they hated their fellow white Christians on the continent just as viciously.
2
Everyone seems so sure about the way it will all go. People do not understand the past and what led up to this, let alone the future. It's the Brit's being Brit's and that's it.
4
I'm betting that there will be a lot of Brexit Remorse a few months from now. Giving the bullies in Brussels their walking papers and shutting the door to immigrants sounds great to those who want to return to the glories of Britain before the EU, but that will not happen. Instead, Scotland, Northern Ireland and perhaps even Gibraltar will want to stay in the EU and will push for some form of independence. Economic opportunities for the very people who voted for a Brexit will probably shrink, and foreign investment in Britain will likely decline. Perhaps the only upside to this catastrophe is the object lesson it gives to the United States to resist the siren calls of populism, anti-immigrant bombast and economic nationalism. We, after all, will be making a similar choice in November.
11
The other big Brexit was when they left the Roman Catholic Church over the lust of their King.
Britain is once again a Castle with a moat.
Britain is once again a Castle with a moat.
1
Catholics make up a big percentage of the Church population and practice their faith regularly. I saw this first hand in London while attending Mass recently. The Anglicans are not so devout as I saw their Churches quite empty.
The only difference now is that nobody wants to storm their castle.
Get used to this phrase Britain: "retaliatory tariffs"
Get used to this phrase Britain: "retaliatory tariffs"
And ironically, the most popular musical of all times, and the number one bestselling book, is about Alexander Hamilton, who brought us a central bank and unified currency. We claim to love him, we say he is a hero, and yet we applaud exactly the opposite of everything he stood for.
5
Trump is gleeful and Putin is celebrating. When these two things happen at the same time, it cannot be good for the rest of us. God save the Queen? No. God save us all.
8
The UK entry into the EU was opposed by deGaulle, who claimed "they are not really Europeans". Maybe he was correct. In this vote, though, the outright lies by the Daily Mail and the Telegraph misled many. Boris Johnson should be ejected from politics for his role in this debacle.
4
Remember how hot Cameron was for austerity while he and his ilk avoided their taxes at Fonseca?
1
Economically speaking, I believe this was a very bad decision for Great Britain - which will probably cease to exist as a result of this vote. On the other hand, I am not surprised. Common people have stopped believing what politicians, bankers, and business leaders tell them because of the fact that they have not really benefited from globalization. Corporations and the money men love globalization - and they frankly do not really see themselves as tied to any one country anymore. They are only interested in profits and increasing wealth. If this wealth and profit had been shared with ordinary people to some extent, perhaps the vote would have been different. The British were sold austerity and globalization, and the result is the standard of living for the ordinary citizen has not increased. Additionally, they have had to compete with cheap labor coming from other EU nations. What the elites don't want to admit, is that the free movement of capital, labor, and goods and services is great for shareholders and for them, it isn't necessarily great for the common man. From a macroeconomic standpoint, it makes perfect sense, but from a micro-economic level, it's a hard sell at this point. Ultimately though, I think the result of this vote will be a break up of the UK, and the political and economic clout of Britain will decline significantly.
4
Keep Calm and Carry On! U.K. Will survive and thrive! Thank god they had the guts to do it. Well done!
8
This is really awful. The leave voters seem to want to go back to the mythical days of Masterpiece Theatre -Miss Marple, Downton Abbey and all the rest of it. If Scotland goes, England will be smaller than it was in the time of Queen Elizabeth I - at least she had all of Ireland. Perhaps if young voters had voted instead of hanging out at the pub or Glastonbury festival and such like, this would not have happened. I am a transplanted Brit and for the first time am glad I do not live there.
I'm mostly surprised by how surprised people seem to be by this. While the polling data did predict a different outcome it mainly showed how close the vote would be yesterday. On top of that older voters, those who show up to the polls in great percentages, favored the leave campaign. There clearly were plenty of people who didn't want to admit they would vote for the leave campaign as they thought it would cause others to look at them in an unfavorable light.
Clearly the majority of the population feels that being in the EU is not a good deal for them. The political class in the UK and Europe in general is out of touch with the vast majority of their fellow citizens. While a small percentage may be prospering the vast majority are just treading water at best and given a chance to have a say they have said this "plan" doesn't work for me. Much like the essentially secret trade deals that end up making a piles of money for select few while costing many their jobs or lowering wages. People have been told over and over how good this will be them for them only to realize they've been sold down the river by their "representatives". Can it be any surprise that many citizens have decided that it isn't in their best interest to trust these politicians and given the first opportunity to vote down their (ongoing) plan? Good idea or not I wish them the best.
Clearly the majority of the population feels that being in the EU is not a good deal for them. The political class in the UK and Europe in general is out of touch with the vast majority of their fellow citizens. While a small percentage may be prospering the vast majority are just treading water at best and given a chance to have a say they have said this "plan" doesn't work for me. Much like the essentially secret trade deals that end up making a piles of money for select few while costing many their jobs or lowering wages. People have been told over and over how good this will be them for them only to realize they've been sold down the river by their "representatives". Can it be any surprise that many citizens have decided that it isn't in their best interest to trust these politicians and given the first opportunity to vote down their (ongoing) plan? Good idea or not I wish them the best.
6
This all makes sense now:
Birth and ancestry
Johnson was born on 19 June 1964[1] at the Clinic, a hospital on the Upper East Side of Manhattan in the city of New York.[2] His birth was registered with both the U.S. authorities and the city's British Consulate, and he was granted both American and British citizenship. His parents were both English. His father, Stanley Johnson, had moved to the United States to study creative writing at the University of Iowa, before transferring to study economics at New York's Columbia University. Boris's mother, Charlotte Johnson Wahl had been from a family of left-wing and liberal intellectuals and had married the politically conservative Stanley in 1963, before accompanying him to the U.S.
Birth and ancestry
Johnson was born on 19 June 1964[1] at the Clinic, a hospital on the Upper East Side of Manhattan in the city of New York.[2] His birth was registered with both the U.S. authorities and the city's British Consulate, and he was granted both American and British citizenship. His parents were both English. His father, Stanley Johnson, had moved to the United States to study creative writing at the University of Iowa, before transferring to study economics at New York's Columbia University. Boris's mother, Charlotte Johnson Wahl had been from a family of left-wing and liberal intellectuals and had married the politically conservative Stanley in 1963, before accompanying him to the U.S.
2
This is what happens when you relinquish control to hapless politicians in Brussels and ram it down the throats of the British people with ridiculous treaties and a human rights court with bizarre legal decisions. Sure Scotland, Wales and N Ireland wanted to stay in, they have absolutely nothing to offer and realise without the EU and England's coat tails they could go the same way as Greece. It'll be interesting to see if Scotland and Wales still want independence from the umbrella of Great Britain.
I remember the vote to enter in the 1970's. The scaremongers said Britain would fail without the Common Market (as it was originally called) so they voted to join. France tried to keep them out (nice slap in the face especially when one considers WWII and which has never been forgotten).
The EU was originally a great idea to challenge the United States as a trading group. It has failed miserably from mismanagement and convoluted trading laws. The three big countries are Great Britain, Germany and France. The rest constantly have their hands out. The British people had the courage to say enough is enough. Sure Cameron and his cronies don't like it because they have lived well in the EU. Britain existed quite happily before the EU and will so again
I remember the vote to enter in the 1970's. The scaremongers said Britain would fail without the Common Market (as it was originally called) so they voted to join. France tried to keep them out (nice slap in the face especially when one considers WWII and which has never been forgotten).
The EU was originally a great idea to challenge the United States as a trading group. It has failed miserably from mismanagement and convoluted trading laws. The three big countries are Great Britain, Germany and France. The rest constantly have their hands out. The British people had the courage to say enough is enough. Sure Cameron and his cronies don't like it because they have lived well in the EU. Britain existed quite happily before the EU and will so again
8
Our British brothers have spoken - freedom and independence reign over plutocrats!
11
Looking at the polling reports in Britain and in the primaries in the United States by age groups, one thing is clear: the older generation is having a lot of trouble handing over the future to the younger generation to whom it belongs.
5
Probably because the younger generations have consistently made it clear that they are still children.
They'll get it eventually. If they are still children when they do, well.....Game Over.
They'll get it eventually. If they are still children when they do, well.....Game Over.
1
We need to join together to envision the better future that Bernie Sanders and all of us know is more than possible, it is ESSENTIAL:
Beyond contending that this vote has something to do with a rejection of “globalism” no one is currently presenting a convincing frame of functional factors that underlay all of the personal reasons of discontentment of the majority of voters in Britain that cast their ballot to withdraw from the EU. And it is the reason for staying in the EU that is the underlying reason for the discontentment among the masses the voted out. The good and bad reason is one and the same: GLOBAL CAPITALISM of today that puts to shame in its scope and power that of the old British East Indian Company of Colonial American times of Boston tea party fame.
Global capitalism in the hands of the hoarders of the world’s and nation’s wealth has eaten away the quality of life of too many people around the world.
Beyond contending that this vote has something to do with a rejection of “globalism” no one is currently presenting a convincing frame of functional factors that underlay all of the personal reasons of discontentment of the majority of voters in Britain that cast their ballot to withdraw from the EU. And it is the reason for staying in the EU that is the underlying reason for the discontentment among the masses the voted out. The good and bad reason is one and the same: GLOBAL CAPITALISM of today that puts to shame in its scope and power that of the old British East Indian Company of Colonial American times of Boston tea party fame.
Global capitalism in the hands of the hoarders of the world’s and nation’s wealth has eaten away the quality of life of too many people around the world.
4
Right or wrong, this is what happens when elected officials ignore the problems of the "lower classes", e.g. anyone below upper middle class, doubling down on policies that add to their difficulties as if they don't matter.
This is a warning to the politicians in this country. Whoever we elect in November, whether Trump or Hillary, must be prepared to jettison what has become our "politics as usual" and actually DO SOMETHING to benefit the lower 99% of the citizens of this country. This also includes members of congress. The ideological echo chambers must be SHUT DOWN! Otherwise, what happens here will make Brexit look like a spring shower next to a tsunami.
This is a warning to the politicians in this country. Whoever we elect in November, whether Trump or Hillary, must be prepared to jettison what has become our "politics as usual" and actually DO SOMETHING to benefit the lower 99% of the citizens of this country. This also includes members of congress. The ideological echo chambers must be SHUT DOWN! Otherwise, what happens here will make Brexit look like a spring shower next to a tsunami.
10
The only person, Sanders, who could 'jettison what has become our politics as usual' sadly will not on the ballot in November.
This vote has profoundly saddened me. History tells us what strength there is in unity, and this can only bode ill for England and the union. There are times,I must confess, when I fear that populism, although essential to a democracy, has a very distinctive downside, and I would prefer to see voters be obliged to pass a literacy test before casting their vote. As a life-long liberal, it pains me to have what could be termed as such an elitist view, but perhaps this latest election circus in the U.S. has also helped me come to this.
3
I see that both Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to stay in the EU. It seems pretty likely that Scotland will vote to separate from the UK and join the EU. I wonder if it is now possible for N. Ireland to also want to leave the UK and reunite with Ireland which is firmly in the EU. If this happens, there would be a de facto pan Celtic union with Ireland, N. Ireland, Scotland and Brittany within the EU (the Bagpipe Union - the BU). The English would be surrounded.
I think the English are in for a hard time and one of their own making. They make come to appreciate the adage “Be careful of what you wish for.”
I think the English are in for a hard time and one of their own making. They make come to appreciate the adage “Be careful of what you wish for.”
1
While watching the election returns, did anybody else have this reaction? A flash of a vision of European nations once again at odds with each other, beginning to see others as enemies, arming themselves, strengthening their borders, restricting civil liberties, making threats against neighbors about migrants and trade.
It was just a flash and then it was gone, but now...not that it will happen, but it brought home, viscerally, just how these things can happen, and have happened.
And what we're seeing is an indication that the lessons of enmity and war are pretty quickly forgotten in the face of economic hardship and and resentment.
It was just a flash and then it was gone, but now...not that it will happen, but it brought home, viscerally, just how these things can happen, and have happened.
And what we're seeing is an indication that the lessons of enmity and war are pretty quickly forgotten in the face of economic hardship and and resentment.
7
I thought the British people were too smart to choose BREXIT. I was wrong. I never thought they would jump off a plane without a parachute, hoping that they would grow wings before hitting the ground.
Can this happen here? Can fear and hatred win over our cherished values?
Our life may depend on the next November election.
Can this happen here? Can fear and hatred win over our cherished values?
Our life may depend on the next November election.
16
"No army can stop an idea whose time has come." Victor Hugo.
Trump's presidential ambition and that of the Republicans' hope to capture the White House in November has increased despite the poll numbers that mask the depth of the people's discontent.
Trump's presidential ambition and that of the Republicans' hope to capture the White House in November has increased despite the poll numbers that mask the depth of the people's discontent.
6
Strange as it may sound, the best response of the remaining EU nations will be to double down on integration, not back off. The consensus driven, treaty based process of the current structure is untenable. It leads to political stagnation and massive bureaucratic waste. Rather than being further hobbled, the Commission needs to be appointed by democratic election and they need real sovereignty over such issues as immigration, trade and defense. Then when they fail to act - as they have in the face of an historic migration inflow - they can be held directly responsible rather than leaving the member states to grumble in discontent while they bear the cost.
Once the necessary restructuring is done, perhaps Little England can reapply, chastened as they will be.
Once the necessary restructuring is done, perhaps Little England can reapply, chastened as they will be.
7
Read the story here today about Facebook and how it is driving excessive and unsustainable immigration. Can't stop it, it's free speech, but know that the young today have grown up with social media and believe it to be true. YIKES!
2
Whatever the final vote, it seems that the process was extremely divisive. David Cameron was misguided at best in calling for the vote. I hope Britain can get beyond the animosity.
2
So the people of the United Kingdom have voted to leave the EU because they don't want some unelected, unseen bureaucrats dictating their laws and regulations to them? This should go in the dictionary under "irony".
7
As regards the BREXIT referendum vote, history advances based on the work of the educated, not the uneducated. A vote based on emotion, and not on education, is likely to have bad consequences.
Pick a time in history when humankind has made progress, from the time of the Babylonians, to the Greeks, the Romans, the Renaissance, and the industrial revolution to the present day.
The people who made the major advances were not the uneducated many, but the educated few.
In politics, we look to the Founding Fathers here in the U.S. They were all well-educated. You can argue that there were no Founding Mothers, or that some of the people who were present in the summer of 1776 in Philadelphia were slave owners, or had other moral failings. But they were not uneducated.
How about scientists, doctors and engineers who make advances in science, technology and medicine? How many of those people are uneducated? How about virtually none?
Want to try literature, music or art? The really good ones are by far the educated ones (sometimes self-educated), and occasionally geniuses who have little formal education.
The point is that the less well educated ignore the teachings of the educated at their peril. You might like to live in a society where the less well educated call the shots. I will take a pass on that. My position is common sense based on historical experience. But I must be biased (or a snob), because I am well-educated, with several post-graduate degrees.
Pick a time in history when humankind has made progress, from the time of the Babylonians, to the Greeks, the Romans, the Renaissance, and the industrial revolution to the present day.
The people who made the major advances were not the uneducated many, but the educated few.
In politics, we look to the Founding Fathers here in the U.S. They were all well-educated. You can argue that there were no Founding Mothers, or that some of the people who were present in the summer of 1776 in Philadelphia were slave owners, or had other moral failings. But they were not uneducated.
How about scientists, doctors and engineers who make advances in science, technology and medicine? How many of those people are uneducated? How about virtually none?
Want to try literature, music or art? The really good ones are by far the educated ones (sometimes self-educated), and occasionally geniuses who have little formal education.
The point is that the less well educated ignore the teachings of the educated at their peril. You might like to live in a society where the less well educated call the shots. I will take a pass on that. My position is common sense based on historical experience. But I must be biased (or a snob), because I am well-educated, with several post-graduate degrees.
5
All education doesn't come from school and not all those schooled are educated. I agree with William Buckley that he would rather be governed by the 1st 500 names in the Boston Telephone book than the faculty of Harvard. It would be well to remember that it was the educated progressives that started the eugenics movement.
3
Education and wisdom are two very different things, as this post shows.
3
Abraham Lincoln did not have a formal education and Bill Gates was a college drop-out. You flatter yourself way too much.
3
Cameron was good for us and good for Israel. I'll be sorry to see him go.
1
I am an Irish American and owned Sterling at the time GB joined the EU but unlike my Irish pounds there was no Euro conversion mandated. The British saw the EU as an undertaking they were willing to accept but their precious Sterling was never on the table. This fuse was lit a long time ago.
2
Another failure of polling it seems.
4
People keep saying it's "racist" for the English to vote based on immigration or ethnicity...Why?? Is it wtong to want your country to exist in a century and not become some kind of New India or New Syria? They don't hate other cultures...they just want their own to EXIST. Plain and simple.
Immigrarion needs to stoo for Europe to survive. Already countries like France are 10% Muslim...and growing. This isn't hatred towards other cultures: it's a commotment to preserving one's own.
I'm proud of the English people for making such a historic decision.
Immigrarion needs to stoo for Europe to survive. Already countries like France are 10% Muslim...and growing. This isn't hatred towards other cultures: it's a commotment to preserving one's own.
I'm proud of the English people for making such a historic decision.
15
Agree
Brexit can be traced to many origins, but I would place the Iraq invasion high up on the list It poked a hornets' nest that upset the entire region and set off the chain of civil war, Isis and a flood of refugees that destabilized Europe. I think that fears about refugees, particularly Muslim refugees, were enough to tip the balance from remain to leave.
6
Did a tabloid owned by Rupert Murdoch in Britain lobby for a British Exit from the European Union?
I wouldn't doubt it if it was.
I wouldn't doubt it if it was.
3
It seems to me that the EU concept has always been basically about the movement of money and people. Money is manipulated and moved around and made more valuable by people who already have quite a bit of it. People moving around more easily between countries is about two things: cheap labor and tourism. Both of those are fairly connected to money as well.
I find it hard to believe that the average working class person in any country in Europe ever thought the EU was either a good idea or one that was anything but a theme park fantasy.
I find it hard to believe that the average working class person in any country in Europe ever thought the EU was either a good idea or one that was anything but a theme park fantasy.
4
Nice going Britain. What were you thinking?
1
a nation takes a very good stance against the geo-political money machine that talks trade out of one side of the mouth, human rights and borderless immigration out of the other. people somehow forget cameron's policy speech on immigration and benefits access that occurred some time ago. too many new folks seen as gaming the system, moochers, is the common terminology. people forget refugees storming the french side of the chunnel. overcrowding and overburdened services. jobs lost. the nation chose it's sovereignty and that is their right. national policy set from abroad doesn't sit well with folks at home in their homeland.. politicians who throw their constituency under the bus in the name of a manufactured regional ideology cannot escape the truths about what they lie and rationalize about, specifically, all the downsides. liberals who can't think straight or see the problems developed from their ideology that produced the social disorder that prevails call the exit from the as a racist gesture. others see it as sanity. developed nations cannot absorb all the world's woes, job seekers and refugees and call it wonderful. it wasn't. it really is all that simple.
6
The stock market is down a mere 500 pts... Big Deal- This is a blip on the financial radar. Obama 2 weeks ago- tried as best he could to sway sentiment [with well scripted, subtle intimidation] to convince British voters to remain and now he says today, "We respect your decision." So let me get this straight... It's respectable for UK citizens to stand against their existing government and vote on future measures to curb the influx of Middle Eastern Immigrants? Well, if it's respectable for them- then would it not be respectable for us?
4
Except it was an argument about the EU and European, note the word 'European', immigrants which figured largely in that debate.
If it hadn't been for the unfettered Muslim immigration onto the Continent this would not have happened.
For this we mostly have Angel W. Merkel to thank.
Whereas it took the Allies 6 years to destroy Germany during WW2, Merkel accomplished the same thing in 6 months.
For this we mostly have Angel W. Merkel to thank.
Whereas it took the Allies 6 years to destroy Germany during WW2, Merkel accomplished the same thing in 6 months.
9
No, Mike, we have George Bush and Tony Blair to thank - they started the chain off by invading Iraq.
12
While, as some of the more thoughtful commentaries have pointed out, this is a well deserved defeat for neoliberalism, it is a success for neo-fascism which is far more frightening. We face the same repugnant dilemma in the US.
8
I'm as liberal as one can get, but to ignore the problems immigrants from the middle east have created, at a time when native born citizen's standards of living have dropped significantly, is ridiculous. The voters are venting and directing their anger the only way they can, if they expect to get LISTENED to.
I doubt they even care about the consequences of their vote.
I doubt they even care about the consequences of their vote.
9
Don't make this about refugees from the Middle East - the UK takes hardly any refugees. In fact Nigel Farage (Mr. Brexit) suggested more Syrians be allowed in and less Romanians and others from EU countries. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-25539843
His concern is economic migrants from countries like Romania and Poland who are living legally in the UK and getting benefits due to their EU status. However, whether they really have any impact on standard of living or unemployment in the UK is seriously debatable. And what about all the UK citizens who go to greener pastures within the EEUU?
His concern is economic migrants from countries like Romania and Poland who are living legally in the UK and getting benefits due to their EU status. However, whether they really have any impact on standard of living or unemployment in the UK is seriously debatable. And what about all the UK citizens who go to greener pastures within the EEUU?
I posted IMMIGRANTS not refugees. GB has looked in the other direction at the criminal activities of Indian and Pakistani communities, Especially the sexual exploitation of lower class Caucasian English girls. The international refugee issue has brought long festering anti-Asian immigration sentiment to the surface.
This Brexit is the unions own making. The project insisted on measuring its successes and failures by the rise and fall of GDP graphs and stock prices that gave no comfort to ordinary citizens who saw their future disappear into bleak hopelessness.
The cost of the long term benefits of the union were callously dumped on ordinary citizens of European nations with stronger economies and living standards ( Brits and Germans etc. ) to the benefits of citizens of those European nations with relatively weaker economies and lower living standards (Romanians and Polish etc. ). There was absolutely no effort made to spread the pain ( temporally and geographically ) the transition to a smooth union entailed.
This referendum offered Brits a unique opportunity to register their frustration with the political and market forces who left them helpless and in the dark to what happens in their own backyards, and they screamed, enough!
It's the same sense of helplessness citizens are subjected to by powerful market forces here at home that gave us the likes of Trump. There is no European Union to get out of here at home, so frustrated citizens are trying to get out of American democratic decency, and into a new world unconstrained by "political correctness".
The cost of the long term benefits of the union were callously dumped on ordinary citizens of European nations with stronger economies and living standards ( Brits and Germans etc. ) to the benefits of citizens of those European nations with relatively weaker economies and lower living standards (Romanians and Polish etc. ). There was absolutely no effort made to spread the pain ( temporally and geographically ) the transition to a smooth union entailed.
This referendum offered Brits a unique opportunity to register their frustration with the political and market forces who left them helpless and in the dark to what happens in their own backyards, and they screamed, enough!
It's the same sense of helplessness citizens are subjected to by powerful market forces here at home that gave us the likes of Trump. There is no European Union to get out of here at home, so frustrated citizens are trying to get out of American democratic decency, and into a new world unconstrained by "political correctness".
3
"Since it will take years to unwind, there is time to rewind and keep the EU together. This need NOT be the end of Britain in the EU. This CAN be the beginning of discussions on HOW UK can remain in the EU."
That's my prediction too. Had the Brits voted to remain, EU leaders would have ignored the reasons Britons wanted to leave. Now they'll address those reasons – especially when other EU member countries tell them their people are complaining about the same things.
Above all else, the EU needs to re-examine its "open borders" policy. No question that the free movement of labor across national boundaries is good for the economy, but people have non-economic concerns as well, and those concerns sometimes call for restrictions on the free movement of labor across national boundaries.
The choice presented to Brits was black and white. Had the EU offered some pleasing shade of gray, the vote might have been different.
That's my prediction too. Had the Brits voted to remain, EU leaders would have ignored the reasons Britons wanted to leave. Now they'll address those reasons – especially when other EU member countries tell them their people are complaining about the same things.
Above all else, the EU needs to re-examine its "open borders" policy. No question that the free movement of labor across national boundaries is good for the economy, but people have non-economic concerns as well, and those concerns sometimes call for restrictions on the free movement of labor across national boundaries.
The choice presented to Brits was black and white. Had the EU offered some pleasing shade of gray, the vote might have been different.
6
I hope you are right, but don't underestimate the ability of unscrupulous politicians to take a bad situation and make it worse for their own supposed benefit. Boris (Trump) Johnson waits in the wings. Cameron called the referendum only to satisfy the Eurpskeptic faction of his own party. He never dreamed that the Tories would win enough seats in the last election to govern without a coalition partner that would have given him a graceful way to renege on his promise; and he also didn't dream that "leave" would win. A case of be careful what you wish for.
1
So you wish to overturn the wishes of a people in a Democratic country. You wish tyranny.
Nice to see the Brits are willing to step up in a leadership role as the US languishes in leftest fecklessness.
2
Our overnight flight from the USA landed in Heathrow 2 hours today after the results were announced. The driver who took us 2 hours away to the Cotswolds is an accountant and pointed out how many British company " Lottie's" we passed now will have to change their names, that had embraced European identity. He also pointed out what a huge number of trucks on the motorway were Continental European, not British, and speculated about the effect on shipping and transport.
Fascinating time to be in England. ( And our currency has jumped in value against the British pound even in just these few hours. )
Fascinating time to be in England. ( And our currency has jumped in value against the British pound even in just these few hours. )
1
The prevailing political climate being what it is now in the UK, Trump could get elected.
Notice that Boris Johnson even has Trump hair.
Notice that Boris Johnson even has Trump hair.
2
Breaking news! The England National Football team just withdrew from Euro '16 Championships in France.
Guess they did not want to be embarrassed by Iceland in the knockout round.
Guess they did not want to be embarrassed by Iceland in the knockout round.
1
Would the results have changed if the campaign was labelled "Bremain" instead of "Brexit"? By referring to the referendum by the later name, voters may have been nudged to be seeing it as an "exit" vote instead of one to "remain." In several social psychology studies, how a question or issue is framed has been shown to have a significant effect on the outcome.
3
"Britain Stuns the World" was the headline for this story when I clicked on it.
But for the normal person on the ground, it was unelected, undemocratic, and micromanaging bureaucrats that bungled the chances for "remain." The politicians, elites, mainstream media, globalists and open borders fanatics have put the needs of their citizens below that of all the other victim and refugee groups that they are so proud of supporting.
The people spoke. And the elites who kept their ears and eyes shut to reality, but kept their mouths working to scare and lecture the people now have what they reaped.
It's about the economy. It's about self-determination. And it's about immigration policy and borders.
But for the normal person on the ground, it was unelected, undemocratic, and micromanaging bureaucrats that bungled the chances for "remain." The politicians, elites, mainstream media, globalists and open borders fanatics have put the needs of their citizens below that of all the other victim and refugee groups that they are so proud of supporting.
The people spoke. And the elites who kept their ears and eyes shut to reality, but kept their mouths working to scare and lecture the people now have what they reaped.
It's about the economy. It's about self-determination. And it's about immigration policy and borders.
3
The Globalists have lost, the New World Order will have to wait...
8
I see Trump's logic: If Brexit is good for his Scottish golf course, it's got to be good for Britain, our USA and the world. Oh, were life as simple as the "thinking" of Donald J. Trump!
3
Well, this is the reaction to globalization. Who was the genius who moved us and the world in that direction? Who has it benefited most? The neoliberal turn may look good in aggregate numbers but it has not improved the lives of the 80% of populations in USA, UK and many so called first world countries. The immigrants are the scapegoats. The economies may not have been growing for whatever reason after a certain point, but the standard of living was better for the previous generation, at least for the majority. Probably ditto for those in other countries, who then try to immigrate. Wars, all those wars from which many in the military industrial complex benefit (and citizens are sick of), unwarranted wars in many cases started by us are setting the world on fire and producing refugee crises. UK, btw, forgets how many countries they occupied and how many British they sent abroad to occupy them in their empire. But when the chicken come home to roost, that is another story. Don't blame the immigrants, they are less than 5 percent of the global population.
4
Yep.
"If US voters were offered a referendum on the Pacific trade partnership, I believe the we would see a similar rejection by the voters. Trade deals like the EU and the Pacific Partnership are viewed by the voters as benefiting business, not individuals."
Trade deals generally help US consumers (lower prices) and workers in low-wage countries (more work), but hurt workers in high-wage countries (less work). As Clyde Prestowitz pointed out in an excellent article in the Washington Monthly recently, past US trade deals sometimes benefit still others. For example, in some past trade deals, the US has essentially ignored the insistence of the Japanese and Korean governments on protective tariffs aimed at enabling Japanese and Korean producers to develop and flourish. That may be bad for US producers (and, hence, US workers), who might have entered the Japanese and Korean markets but for those tariffs, but the US government had concerns other than the well-being of US producers and workers – such as a strong desire to build and maintain military bases on Japanese and Korean soil. And so the US struck trade deals with Japan and Korea that opened up US markets to Japanese and Korean producers but did NOT open up Japanese and Korean markets to US producers.
"If US voters were offered a referendum on the Pacific trade partnership, I believe the we would see a similar rejection by the voters. Trade deals like the EU and the Pacific Partnership are viewed by the voters as benefiting business, not individuals."
Trade deals generally help US consumers (lower prices) and workers in low-wage countries (more work), but hurt workers in high-wage countries (less work). As Clyde Prestowitz pointed out in an excellent article in the Washington Monthly recently, past US trade deals sometimes benefit still others. For example, in some past trade deals, the US has essentially ignored the insistence of the Japanese and Korean governments on protective tariffs aimed at enabling Japanese and Korean producers to develop and flourish. That may be bad for US producers (and, hence, US workers), who might have entered the Japanese and Korean markets but for those tariffs, but the US government had concerns other than the well-being of US producers and workers – such as a strong desire to build and maintain military bases on Japanese and Korean soil. And so the US struck trade deals with Japan and Korea that opened up US markets to Japanese and Korean producers but did NOT open up Japanese and Korean markets to US producers.
My ancestors spent 2,000 years or more fighting, dying, and scrapping out our survival largely from the many European invaders. I am glad to see a move for return to British Sovereignty.
1
Your English, Welsh, Scottish and/or Northern Ireland ancestors, like mine, are most likely also descended from the French (Norman invasion), the Spanish (very early Irish settlers and later traders), the Romans, the Norwegians and a few other Europeans. A sovereign nation does not require rejecting agreements with one's neighbors (and distant cousins).
1
"One BBC commentator liken this to the worse even, in English history, since 1066."
A piece of advice you'll thank me for some day: If you ever see that BBC commentator walking down the street toward you, cross immediately to the other side of the street.
A piece of advice you'll thank me for some day: If you ever see that BBC commentator walking down the street toward you, cross immediately to the other side of the street.
1
Cracker Jack used to come with a prize you wanted. We Boomers and X-ers (?) of the Internet Age have utterly perverted that arrangement. Nowadays when you vote against the feudal elite, you must vigilantly un-check the box that says “prejudice” before hitting the “vote” button. If we sincerely care about “the masses” then we’d better give up the ego-trip of maligning their intelligence and try to get inside their heads. The cries of an infant are not always without reason. Perhaps ‘em blokes in the pub want to see David Cameron take a night class in coding and become an internet mogul, starting from scratch at age 49, as proof that automation, immigration and trade will improve (or even maintain) their lot. It’s time to stop wringing our hands and figure out what kind of world we want. It’s filled with modern miracles awaiting our just use. Everything we need is on the table right in front of us.
2
The EU has slowly, but surely, destroyed the democracies of all its nation members.
70% of new laws in the UK came from the EU, which are imposed by an unelected EU Commission of 5 people, headed by the corrupt Jean Claude Juncker from Luxembourg, who, among other problems, suffers from alcoholism.
The EU Court in Brussels, headed by judges who are mostly hacks, constantly overrules the highest court in the UK. Britain has been a democracy for 1,000 years and now it's gotten rid of the EU oligarchy.
70% of new laws in the UK came from the EU, which are imposed by an unelected EU Commission of 5 people, headed by the corrupt Jean Claude Juncker from Luxembourg, who, among other problems, suffers from alcoholism.
The EU Court in Brussels, headed by judges who are mostly hacks, constantly overrules the highest court in the UK. Britain has been a democracy for 1,000 years and now it's gotten rid of the EU oligarchy.
5
In a related article it is reported that Donald Trump, while visiting one of his golf courses in Scotland (whose residents voted to remain in the EU), applauded the British vote to leave. He said the British pound would be weakened making his courses in Scotland more attractive to users, and more profitable for him. He blamed Pres. Obama for the outcome of the vote. American markets fell sharply today, eroding the retirement savings of many Americans.
I have questions for Speaker Paul Ryan et al. in the GOP - Whose side is Trump on? Whose side are you on? What's more important to you: higher profits for Trump or the needs of American retirees? What will it take for you to grow some spine (polite word on my part), cut Trump loose and endorse Clinton for the good of the country you purport to love so much?
I have questions for Speaker Paul Ryan et al. in the GOP - Whose side is Trump on? Whose side are you on? What's more important to you: higher profits for Trump or the needs of American retirees? What will it take for you to grow some spine (polite word on my part), cut Trump loose and endorse Clinton for the good of the country you purport to love so much?
10
The fact that American markets fell based on a British referendum is an argument for more globalization? Please explain.
1
Fascinating in that it forces Britain to live in the here and now rather than always looking at past glories, colonial wisdoms no longer should be quoted by this little and insecure country, certainly Britain should disconnect itself from the dreams of yesterday. They are now isolated, instantly treated by the EU as if dying of a lethal illness; "do not touch me!" The US, starting with Obama, should give this ample time to see how this crisis further evolves but certainly recognize it as a revolution with permanent consequences. Britain yesterday managed to kick the Western World from behind and below the belt.
The UK joined the EU in 1973 Henny Penny. The EU needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU.
The UK will be just fine.
The UK will be just fine.
Most humans do not adapt quickly to changes that impact their daily life and the lives of their children. Managing change is key to successful change. Britons in smaller towns and villages who have absorbed significant legal, immigrant populations have realized first hand the impact on their culture & schools & social services. Many people in big cities (especially younger people) tend to read about vs. experience those impacts. Same thing in the United States. NYC is a liberal city, yet it has the most segregated school system in the U.S. Small town America, for the most part, is having to deal daily with the consequences of immigration - much of it poor & illegal. Immigration is important for many reasons, but unfettered immigration overwhelms people and social systems. Perhaps Brexit will serve as a wake up call across the pond.
17
Very insightful.
The sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling.
1
I keep thinking that right now the UK has a huge european population that will have to be given a visa or a resident´s permit to continue living in the UK, which sounds about right for any EU citizen living in the UK when they leave. This way the few million brits residing in the EU will have reciprocal treatment within the union. I think about the wave of Romanians, Polish, Spanish that will move there before it is too late... And somehow the thought makes me smile. Sorry, but it´s your own doing.
2
Populism, both left and right: 1
Ruling-class elitism: 0
Ruling-class elitism: 0
5
It was the early 1960s while stationed in Europe, there were six countries and it was called the common market. Travelers needed passports to go to another European country and going through customs was tough. The Brits were not one of the six and it was common observation that they did not consider themselves European. The strongest currency then as probably always was the German mark. The Brits have not returned to the 1960s to isolate themselves across the channel.
1
Based on the hysterical overreaction from the corrupt, elitist, liberal politicians, the snooty, pseudointellectual media, and the cheating bankers and CEOS, all who have crushed the middle class in Britain and the US with their "liberal" policies, this is obviously a great day for the normal populace of these countries. I absolutely LOVE hearing all the wailing from the establishment dirtbags who are so afraid of losing their power and income from this populist movement. Congratulations Britain! Now it's America's turn!
12
People might do well to consider that voting is an emotional activity. Voters do not ‘weigh’ issues, policies or legislative agenda. Voters make an emotional choice in much the same way that buying a house, in which to live, is an emotional decision despite the financial calculations.
This is always the danger of a referendum because it is ‘assumed’ that voters make a thoughtful, calculated choice. They don’t. They vote from emotion manipulated by both sides of a referendum debate.
That is the ‘take-away’ from the Brexit debacle. People will theorise about why this happened and how it came to pass but the argument and intellectual discussion will be largely window dressing for the gut-wrenching reality that characterises modern Britain.
Politics hasn’t changed. The Brexit campaign has exposed politics for what it has always been, though people cling to weak perceptions about ‘vision for the country’ or ‘a principled response.’ Politics has always been the naked, unbridled pursuit of power.
There is a real chance that American voters in November will cast ballots motivated by fear, anxiety, and an unconscious compulsion to vote for a loud, brash, fuzzy future too. Many of us will look back, after the election, and wonder to what extent Brexit predicted the outcome.
This is always the danger of a referendum because it is ‘assumed’ that voters make a thoughtful, calculated choice. They don’t. They vote from emotion manipulated by both sides of a referendum debate.
That is the ‘take-away’ from the Brexit debacle. People will theorise about why this happened and how it came to pass but the argument and intellectual discussion will be largely window dressing for the gut-wrenching reality that characterises modern Britain.
Politics hasn’t changed. The Brexit campaign has exposed politics for what it has always been, though people cling to weak perceptions about ‘vision for the country’ or ‘a principled response.’ Politics has always been the naked, unbridled pursuit of power.
There is a real chance that American voters in November will cast ballots motivated by fear, anxiety, and an unconscious compulsion to vote for a loud, brash, fuzzy future too. Many of us will look back, after the election, and wonder to what extent Brexit predicted the outcome.
9
People who lack courage assume that others also lack it or that there is just no such thing. They can’t respond to a call they can’t hear.
Overpopulation is the elephant in the room for the surge in nationalism being seen throughout Western nations. There are simply too many people to be absorbed into a vibrant economy in an era where technology is making low-skilled labor increasingly obsolete, and likely not enough resources to go around. The population of the world has more than doubled in 40 years. This is just the beginning--once shortages of food and water become widespread there will be increased instability.
7
Let's hope this is not the start of a fracturing of Western democracies and civilization. That would be exactly what ISIS wants...
2
Good Luck to the "English" (you are no longer Great British, British, or the United Kingdom) on their polotical and economic experiement.
Now comes reality of:
Goodby to Scotland.
If things go badly, Goodby to N. Ireland.
If things go realy badly, Goodby to Wales.
The EU may fall apart, or become even stonger, which in the end will make England a quaint tourist stop over.
You and us will talk about the "special relationship" but do not expect any money.
Maybe now we will get some good French, German, or Polish shows on Masterpiece Theater.
Now comes reality of:
Goodby to Scotland.
If things go badly, Goodby to N. Ireland.
If things go realy badly, Goodby to Wales.
The EU may fall apart, or become even stonger, which in the end will make England a quaint tourist stop over.
You and us will talk about the "special relationship" but do not expect any money.
Maybe now we will get some good French, German, or Polish shows on Masterpiece Theater.
3
Xenophobia. That's what this vote was about. Just as voting for Trump would be xenophobia. Our poor planet is now weighed down by xenophobia.
3
At last, Britain now has the chance to regain national sovereignty. This historic tipping point occurred just in time before the invading horde birthrate prevented the vote to leave E.U. Soon, other like minded rational countries who desire freedom from E.U. politically correct dogma/bureaucracy will hopefully follow Britain's courageous historic decision. God Bless the Queen!
8
Let it go. Such a shame. Where is the so-called European Value. EU is falling apart. Where will it end? Only time will tell.
1
I watched Live streaming from the BBC last night. Over and over again - in their analysis, commentators from both sides kept referencing the 2008 economic meltdown. Just like here, many people in the UK were left behind and never recovered -while Britain's Financial sector flourished. Also, it did appear that the EU robbed individual countries of the necessary tools needed to fix their individual economies - all one need do is look at the incredible rates of high unemployment for many of the members (Greece, Italy, and Spain to name a few) and enforced austerity measures that are crippling them. As someone once said - "it's the economy, stupid."
8
Do the ethnic English, Welsh and Scots have no right to maintain their identity?
Over and over again people are using terms like "anti-immigrant" and "nativism" as if Britain is obligated to admit so many immigrants that the native stock become a minority in their own homeland.
Isn't demanding that a people let themselves become a minority in their own homeland racist?
Or is it only racist if applied to non white Europeans?
I think, no, I know, that there is a lot of "hate" in the Bremain rhetoric - some of it coming in the form of accusing people of "hate" for not wishing to disappear into the EU monolith and the Kaleergi Plan to destroy Europe.
Over and over again people are using terms like "anti-immigrant" and "nativism" as if Britain is obligated to admit so many immigrants that the native stock become a minority in their own homeland.
Isn't demanding that a people let themselves become a minority in their own homeland racist?
Or is it only racist if applied to non white Europeans?
I think, no, I know, that there is a lot of "hate" in the Bremain rhetoric - some of it coming in the form of accusing people of "hate" for not wishing to disappear into the EU monolith and the Kaleergi Plan to destroy Europe.
9
I wonder if Quebec's next independence referendum will succeed based on this.
England has made the worst decision in its history. The EU was the only thing that kept England from slipping in to the poverty of a poorly run 2nd world country. The vote was primarily about racism over immigrants. I wonder if all the British expats living in Europe realized that they will no longer has the right to live and work in the EU?
3
The EU needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU. It was around long before there was anything such as EU and will be around long after there is an EU.
I'm sorry, this is total nonsense. You do know the UK is the 2nd highest net contributor each year (to the sum of billions of GBP) to the EU budget. Growth has been significantly higher in the UK over the last 10-20 years, with a much more dynamic economy, labor force etc. that's one of the main reasons so many EU citizens have moved there. It was not primarily about race, as you suggest, but a whole combination; lack of transparency and democratic accountability in the part of the EU being the biggest factor.
1
Jeff from California, although I opposed Brexit for reasons of my own, I am beyond tired of smug American liberals getting on their high and mighty horses about immigration. Easy to say if you live in one of the largest democracies in the world! There are 2 issues at stake here: 1. The real fear that people from poorer regions in England had about the pressure that immigrants put on wages, social services, and the fear of losing their jobs to them. There is nothing racist or bigoted about that fear. 2. The fact that many people from especially the Middle East, hold viewpoints about women, gays and Jews that to many of us are anathema. There are many neighborhoods in France and Belgium where the police don't dare venture. The result of that we have seen in the Paris/ Bataclan and Brussels massacres. Those terrorists were home grown in Belgium and France! Also, the Jews of France are scared, and quite rightly so. 7000 Jews are leaving France every year now, a community that has been French since the 14th century! And in some neighborhoods in Amsterdam, Antwerp or Paris, you'd better not be seen walking hand in hand with your same sex partner-or with a yarmulke. In London, there are neighborhoods where the ISIS flag is flown. Londonistan? The pitfalls of unchecked, massive immigration are real. One does not need to be a fascist or racist to acknowledge that. You seem to know NOTHING about Europe.
2
Just wondering if the Queen voiced an opinion on this, and if she did, did it matter?
2
The Queen is NOT allowed to voice her opinion, if she did I am sure it would matter to some people.
I'm sympathetic to the very real concerns that compelled Britons to vote for Brexit. When I return home to Italy, I'm saddened and surprised by degraded cities and gangs of young, male immigrants loitering malevolently in once beautifully maintained piazzas and parks. But I believe that much of their anti-social behavior stems from the emotionally and physically painful loses they've endured. We fail to consider that they may resent being in Europe as much as their presence is resented. All of us are guilty of not helping them find a place in their new environments. If we offer help to assimilate (not just putting them in ghettos and food stamps), and they can't or won't assimilate, then they can be returned to their homelands.
I admire the British for demanding more transparency and problem-solving from the EU., but our eternal unwillingness to recognize our own contributions to a problem also fueled Brexit. I'm convinced that the majority didn't fully comprehend the real reasons behind the problems, which is political paralysis fueled by partisan politics which is fueled by fear and loathing within voters' hearts. It's like a dog chasing its tail. While economic benefits in our current systems aren't trickling down from the wealthy and powerful, fear and hatred are certainly trickling up from the general populace to the politicians. Just like each one of us, they prefer to find someone else to blame.
I admire the British for demanding more transparency and problem-solving from the EU., but our eternal unwillingness to recognize our own contributions to a problem also fueled Brexit. I'm convinced that the majority didn't fully comprehend the real reasons behind the problems, which is political paralysis fueled by partisan politics which is fueled by fear and loathing within voters' hearts. It's like a dog chasing its tail. While economic benefits in our current systems aren't trickling down from the wealthy and powerful, fear and hatred are certainly trickling up from the general populace to the politicians. Just like each one of us, they prefer to find someone else to blame.
10
Rule Britannia, maybe we will get the courage to follow their lead this fall and take charge of our sovereignty again.
8
Trump loves this but he doesn't depend on his 403b plan to replace salary in retirement. For him and his economic peers this is a fantastic buying opportunity and the collateral damage, if he even thinks of it, is just a darn shame.
It's a buying opportunity for everyone.
The UK has just marginalized itself. From empire to crumpet republic.
2
The EU is merely Germany's attempt to accomplish economically what they failed twice to accomplish militarily. Germany rules the EU right now.
The UK will be just fine. They were fine before anyone had ever heard of an EU and they'll be fine again. The EU needs them more than they need the EU.
The UK will be just fine. They were fine before anyone had ever heard of an EU and they'll be fine again. The EU needs them more than they need the EU.
1
Here comes the wave of freedom from globalism...ready to stand up and do the wave? here it comes!!! Get ready...
6
What a sad day for the UK. This goes to show that democracy can sometimes fail. Cameron should never have done a referendum on this issue.
3
Democracy failed because you didn't like the result? You and Cameron know best so the population should not get to vote?
Bush and the Neocons are ultimately to blame. The million-vote difference between "Leave" and "Remain" would have been reversed if Bush hadn't invaded Iraq, thereby destabilizing the Middle East, thereby causing the immigrant/refugee crisis in Europe, etc. While it is true that there were myriad reasons people voted "Leave," one of those reasons was xenophobia.
7
I've been waiting all day for someone to blame George Bush
Personally, I blame Woodrow Wilson.
Personally, I blame Woodrow Wilson.
'Britain' did not vote to leave the EU. England and Wales did. Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to remain.
1
Will the two major parties learn from this? Doubtful. They still don't get why Bernie and Donald have been so successful. I live in a state whose rural economy was devastated by NAFTA, and is now aging in place with a huge percentage of the population living on transfer payments. These people are not stupid. People who live and party in NYC and inside the Beltway are not qualified to make decisions for this country, much less control the political process. They, too, may get a surprise in November. Here in America, we have no financial or employment security, education is bankrupting us and thereby crippling the future of the housing and auto industries, education too often leads to contract employment with no benefits, our public transit stinks, and we have no control over immigrantion-by which I don't mean the starving desperate who come here to find peace and safety, I mean the wide open ports and airports (traveled to Thailand, Japan, Mexico lately? Not only do you get photographed, but.they find you if you don't leave when you are supposed to.) People are fed up. Trump's wall is ridiculous, but so is the corporate policy that punishes illegal immigrants rather than their employers. Etc. And I didn't even get into guns.....
13
The lemmings are jumping off the white cliffs of Dover.
2
About a month ago Obama told Britain if you like your membership in the E.U. you can keep your membership.
5
No man is an island,
Entire of itself,
Every man is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thy friend's
Or of thine own were:
Any man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in mankind,
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.
Entire of itself,
Every man is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thy friend's
Or of thine own were:
Any man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in mankind,
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.
6
In the UK, what we did yesterday was reject a distant government, where unelected officials propose many of the laws, and elected representatives only review them. We chose to be ruled by a closer government, where our own, elected representatives both propose and review laws.
Yes, some of the things said during the campaign were shameful. However, the issue of our total lack of control over immigration from the EU perfectly encapsulated the way that an unaccountable elite routinely ignored our wishes.
The vote was about rejecting the “democratic deficit”, and voting for accountability and democracy. This was the UK’s July 4, 1776 moment - and yes, there is irony there.
Yes, some of the things said during the campaign were shameful. However, the issue of our total lack of control over immigration from the EU perfectly encapsulated the way that an unaccountable elite routinely ignored our wishes.
The vote was about rejecting the “democratic deficit”, and voting for accountability and democracy. This was the UK’s July 4, 1776 moment - and yes, there is irony there.
13
no matter how this went - everyone knew the markets would be volatile today and all next week. so why bother opening the markets at all until the dust settles?
1
Because they're free markets. You cannot be serious
Cheers to the Brits for stopping their eventual suicide. Trump is a clown but he is our next President. Deal with it. We can't have open borders and laws that you don't have to follow.
6
I think Britain will have some tough weeks ahead, but I believe a new strength will come out of it: wanting to prove that they made the right decision.
It is like a relationship, not enough of people in Britain was happy in it. They are divorcing the EU and later, maybe, it will enter a better "Union".
It is like a relationship, not enough of people in Britain was happy in it. They are divorcing the EU and later, maybe, it will enter a better "Union".
4
The New World Order folk are having a difficult day. Next up: the United States of America, followed by the nice folks at the United Nations. Normal people have had enough of the lies and the deceit. Are you listening Mr. Obama? Are you listening Miss Hillary?
2
"I wonder/fear if at some future date, historians will look back at this event as the beginning of greater fragmentation among nations and the instigation of war."
As chance would have it, I ran into the crazy, white-haired professor from Back to the Future yesterday afternoon. He graciously transported me into the future, about 20 years, and then about 50 years, and then about 100 years. You'll be glad to hear that historians did NOT look back at this event as the beginning of greater fragmentation among nations and the instigation of war. Turns out it wasn't all that big a deal after all.
Whew, eh?
As chance would have it, I ran into the crazy, white-haired professor from Back to the Future yesterday afternoon. He graciously transported me into the future, about 20 years, and then about 50 years, and then about 100 years. You'll be glad to hear that historians did NOT look back at this event as the beginning of greater fragmentation among nations and the instigation of war. Turns out it wasn't all that big a deal after all.
Whew, eh?
4
I have very little fear this portends good for Trump. America is just not the same as Europe. It is way more diverse. Trump will still lose spectacularly and the xenophobes and racists, closet or overt will go back to whining and blaming the darn Mexicans for their pitiable lot in life.
1
This doesn't mean UK cuisine must revert too, does it?
5
An expression of discontent but with no coherent plan for solution. As much as I believe in democracy. this shows the limits of populism. A painful time is coming for Britain, likely the threat of losing Scotland and eventual flights of capital to a new EU Scotland and the Irish Republic (with many, many, very, very good Trump resorts?) But the British rejoice in new adversities.
3
After decisive victories in WW1 & WW2 & The Cold War, formerly brave Great Britian surrenders to fear itself!
4
Today I am proud to be a Londoner, I am glad that one
of the first tweet from Sadik Khan was to reassure
European citizens like myself that we are welcome.
This is a victory for UKIP and his brand of nationalism.
Farage first words was to divide the country singing
the praise of "Brexit" voters for how ordinary and decent
they have been. Maybe it is time for London to make ordinary
extraordinary and seek a special status to remain in the
EU. This is an unprecedented situation for a country to leave
a bloc created 40 years ago, a roam of possibilities are
on the table.
of the first tweet from Sadik Khan was to reassure
European citizens like myself that we are welcome.
This is a victory for UKIP and his brand of nationalism.
Farage first words was to divide the country singing
the praise of "Brexit" voters for how ordinary and decent
they have been. Maybe it is time for London to make ordinary
extraordinary and seek a special status to remain in the
EU. This is an unprecedented situation for a country to leave
a bloc created 40 years ago, a roam of possibilities are
on the table.
3
The fresh anger spilling out into politics isn't that complicated: after the 2008 Great Recession when average Janes and Joes had to bail out global banks whose masters made fortunes for years and caused the crisis, it was those masters whose pockets refilled faster than everyone else between 2008-16.
Average taxpayers in the UK - I was living there in 2008 - and the US saved the financial elite, none of the latter when to jail, and then they stripped the economy again with their new schemes and tech, leaving the general population behind.
Well done Wall Street Banks.
Average taxpayers in the UK - I was living there in 2008 - and the US saved the financial elite, none of the latter when to jail, and then they stripped the economy again with their new schemes and tech, leaving the general population behind.
Well done Wall Street Banks.
9
It will be interesting (and revealing) to see just how eager financial service enterprises and transnational corporations are to transfer their bases to Europe, versus pressuring Europe to accommodate GB with new trading rules, especially with national elections scheduled in France and Germany next year. Want to foresee how this will turn out? In the words of Deepthroat... "Follow the money."
3
The BREXIT vote for England to leave the EU not only shatters the continental unity forged after WW II, it also dilutes that seventy year old "special relationship" with the United States.
The British people who voted to divorce the EU must have suffered an acute attack of amnesia. Over one half million U.S. soldiers were killed to save Britain and Europe in WW2. The EU, also known as the Common Market, was born out of that experience so that there would be no war ever again among its member states.
Churchill's victory broadcast on May 13, 1945 underscored the U.S. contribution: "But never since the United States entered the war have I had the slightest doubt but that we should be saved and that we had only to do our duty in order to win."
Who will the Brits call when next they are in trouble? This BREXIT carcass of Empire leaves an unpleasant aroma wafting across the Atlantic.
The British people who voted to divorce the EU must have suffered an acute attack of amnesia. Over one half million U.S. soldiers were killed to save Britain and Europe in WW2. The EU, also known as the Common Market, was born out of that experience so that there would be no war ever again among its member states.
Churchill's victory broadcast on May 13, 1945 underscored the U.S. contribution: "But never since the United States entered the war have I had the slightest doubt but that we should be saved and that we had only to do our duty in order to win."
Who will the Brits call when next they are in trouble? This BREXIT carcass of Empire leaves an unpleasant aroma wafting across the Atlantic.
3
Fact check: the United States entered World War 2 only after we were attacked by Japan, and Germany declared war on the US. Most of Europe had surrendered by December 1941 and Britain, Australia and Canada were mostly alone in defending out way of life against Fascism.
To describe our entry into the war as an act of "saving Britain and Europe" is an interesting interpretation, given nations do act in their own interests.
Assuming your world view is correct, how is it that staying in the free trade zone/superstate of the EU represents some sort of payback for our participation in the war? Did not sufficient numbers of Britons die on D-Day to lighten their debt of gratitude?
To describe our entry into the war as an act of "saving Britain and Europe" is an interesting interpretation, given nations do act in their own interests.
Assuming your world view is correct, how is it that staying in the free trade zone/superstate of the EU represents some sort of payback for our participation in the war? Did not sufficient numbers of Britons die on D-Day to lighten their debt of gratitude?
The campaigns to Stay and Go were both fought in the gutter. There are no winners today in the UK.
2
This political/economic disease is catching. Italy, and France are not immune.The anxiety and discontent of the working class citizens in many capitalist democracies has been very apparent, except to the the political and economic oligarchs.
The bleak economic future of under-educated workers has been ignored. Unions have been obliterated. Healthcare costs including insurance costs have skyrocketed. College costs are beyond laughable. The oligarchs own the political class and dictate their "just do nothing" agenda. Greed has overplayed it's hand. The system is broken. Change will happen.
The bleak economic future of under-educated workers has been ignored. Unions have been obliterated. Healthcare costs including insurance costs have skyrocketed. College costs are beyond laughable. The oligarchs own the political class and dictate their "just do nothing" agenda. Greed has overplayed it's hand. The system is broken. Change will happen.
13
A free people has just made a very difficult decision. As Americans we can appreciate their courage and love of country. Let's support them and continue working with them to make this world a better place.
6
So much wailing and gnashing of teeth. At a people choosing their destiny by a peaceful, democratic process. Congratulations to the UK!
10
It's a sign that EU has run its course. It starts to outlive its role and place in history.
4
And now for something completely different? Nope. Just stumbling back into the dark age of nationalism.
3
Perhaps in the end, after a long night, Europe will reform as a closer and more perfect Union as we in the US did when we abandoned the loose Articles of Confederation and adopted our Constitution... but a particularly dark night may be needed to convince them of the necessity for doing so...
Good for Europe; Bad for Britain. The old guard in Britain may think of itself as the crown jewels of the European Union, but they should think again. Britain imports far more than it exports, it stand to loose a large chunk of its services based industry to Europe, and it stands to loose one of its valued territories (Scotland). And those oil reserves from the North Sea, they aren't that valuable anymore either.
In the long term, Britain will restructure, it will engage in all sorts of trade relations and compromises, and in the grand scheme of things, it won't have made the difference. And even the need to deal with the large flow of immigrants from across the world may not change much. And if those immigrants do end up staying away, why would Britain want to have talent from abroad anyway, with Britain is so aplenty of it?
BTW, Britains, no more sharing of those EU Holidays either ... come on, back to work, chop chop!
In the long term, Britain will restructure, it will engage in all sorts of trade relations and compromises, and in the grand scheme of things, it won't have made the difference. And even the need to deal with the large flow of immigrants from across the world may not change much. And if those immigrants do end up staying away, why would Britain want to have talent from abroad anyway, with Britain is so aplenty of it?
BTW, Britains, no more sharing of those EU Holidays either ... come on, back to work, chop chop!
1
I don't know who said it originally but it is credited to Abraham Lincoln...“You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.” The far right wing nuts have gotten a day because politicians and financial institutions have messed about so much for so long that the people are tired and pulling the covers up and over their heads...it's a small world and we will all learn to live together without ripping each other off or we will perish alone. This is why each persons' voice and ballot is so important. People who don't pay attention and people who don't hold pols accountable for the "true" needs of the people have no place in decision making and the voters should make sure. We are not sheep nor masters of the world just people who want peace, to be able to make a decent living. We are the people who fight and die. The ballot, not the bullet is all important.
4
If we are repeating the eras of WW I & II, then yes, the economy for producers will eventually improve for those still alive after war, disease, and famine. What neo-liberals fail to realize is that parasitic rent seeking capitalism is a tide that eventually sinks all boats except for the very largest and the voters with the little boats see that writing on the wall.
2
Before the vote I saw one interview with an English student and he very thoughtfully pointed out that he believed Britain's future was in the East and not in Europe. It is quite possible that England will begin pivoting in that direction as well as strengthening their ties with the US, Canada, and other members of the Commonwealth and be the better off for Brexit.
8
I can't say, for certain, whether mass immigration is a good or bad thing, only time will tell. Perhaps someone in the USA could ask the Native Americans for their views.
For those of you who admire the EU so much, perhaps you could get the name changed to The North Atlantic Union and then the US, Canada and Mexico could join.
For those of you who admire the EU so much, perhaps you could get the name changed to The North Atlantic Union and then the US, Canada and Mexico could join.
3
Looking forward to an independent Scotland and an united Ireland.
9
Nationalism is so in right now.
3
Gee, maybe the right solution for Northern Ireland is not to build border posts everywhere, but to leave the UK and rejoin Ireland? Far from bringing back the glory days of the British Empire, I think England's decline and isolation are being hastened by this shortsighted move.
3
Britain needs to reshape its future, and it is definitely outside EU. It is going to be a bumpy road, but we are finally free. Our first priority is to revive our ties with Commonwealth states, particularly with Canada, Australia and New Zealand. CANZUK is back on the table.
6
A lot of globalist nonsense being spewed out here by the 0.1% and their lackeys who are upset that the British people finally had the good sense to throw off their shackles and regain their freedom, independence and sovereignty from the evil empire/ Fourth Reich/EU dominated by the German banksters and crapitalists. They have exploited and oppressed the people of Britain and indeed all of Europe for decades now and their depredations are finally coming to an end one hopes. I have several friends who reside in Britain and they pointed out how the Cameron regime and the New World Order tried to "stack the deck" against Brexit by telling numerous and huge lies, threatening the people with economic ruin for daring to stand up for their rights, and allowing hundreds of thousands of foreigners who are "Commonwealth citizens" of Third World countries and Irish citizens as well to vote in a British election, something unheard of and unprecedented. They even tried to use the sad murder of leftist MP Jo Cox to make her a "martyr" for the EU. Nothing worked and now the United Kingdom will become free and independent again. No doubt the banksters and fingerciers are going to punish Britain for awhile for its temerity, but in the end their avarice will overcome their anger and Britain will continue to have free trade with Europe and London will still be the financial center of Europe. From now on in Britain: "Here sir the people rule". The evil empire is hopefully on its way out.
12
I was in London recently and did not hear too many Irish accents but did see many Muslims everywhere. If the Irish were allowed to vote, rest assured they would have voted to leave the EU. They have similar feelings and values as the English and do not like their communities overrun with immigrants. The English and Irish get along very well and the Irish have been very successful in assimilating into British society. They have been a welcome asset and there is a lot of intermarriage between the two groups.
The Muslims do not want to assimilate and want to stand out by the attire they wear. The women wear brightly colored headwear and want to be noticed as Muslims. This has caused resentment by some British who are known for their reserve. Can you blame them when their country is being invaded by people who do not share their values?
The Muslims do not want to assimilate and want to stand out by the attire they wear. The women wear brightly colored headwear and want to be noticed as Muslims. This has caused resentment by some British who are known for their reserve. Can you blame them when their country is being invaded by people who do not share their values?
2
Don't forget yesterday's (Thursday's) masked gunman who opened fire in a crowded German cinema near Frankfurt. The incident was reported about four hours before the Brit polls closed, and isn't it funny, but the nationality of the gunman was NOT released. In fact, today--nearly 24 hours later--his nationality has STILL not been released. Eyewitness reports said he spoke broken German. How very, very odd that his nationality was stuffed under the carpet at a time when it might have swayed further votes against the EU. And yet Jo Cox's assassination was the subject of intense media coverage, in a blatant effort to sway votes in favor of the pro-EU vote. People wonder why the Mainstream Media has lost all credibility. Everything you read these days is a frank lie. Bad times are coming.
2
I don't blame Scotland for wanting to leave now.
The Scots voted against independence while Britain was part of the EU. In yesterday's vote, the Scots voted overwhelmingly against exit. Expect the Scots to revisit their independence vote.
3
Mr Cameron has found his place in history.
2
Refugee crisis, Immigrant crisis, Islamic terrorism , all are contributing factors to the mess we are witnessing in Europe. America should take some blame for all these worldwide turmoil going on in the planet. The stupid Iraq war and the American foreign policies have created this worldwide crisis, the breakdown of Middle East and the uncontrolled flooding of immigrants into European countries. European countries are afraid of losing their culture by the invasion of these immigrants who refuse to assimilate. Donald Trump is gloating. Americans are afraid that the same thing can happen to their country. Nothing works like fear .I will not be surprised if Trump gets elected, you cannot underestimate American voters
8
Most of the doom and gloom comments trying to pin this decision on xenophobia and isolationism show they know nothing of what goes on in Europe and how the Brits really feel. And this has absolutely no parallel to our upcoming election either.
8
There has been some discussion about the implications for Scotland, but what I've seen and read so far doesn't take the discussion all the way through. Yes, a second referendum on independence is now a lot more likely, and yes, there is a good chance that enough "No" voters from two years ago would vote "Yes" in a second go-around to result in independence.
But then what? An independent Scotland will surely apply for EU membership. This is where things could get really sticky. An application for EU membership requires the approval of EVERY SINGLE existing EU member. Do you see Spain or Belgium, each with its own issues regarding nationalist minorities, approving the application of a breakaway Scotland? I sure don't. For the good of Scotland, the Scots who favor independence will have to think long and hard about whether it would be worth it to go alone and likely without EU membership.
But then what? An independent Scotland will surely apply for EU membership. This is where things could get really sticky. An application for EU membership requires the approval of EVERY SINGLE existing EU member. Do you see Spain or Belgium, each with its own issues regarding nationalist minorities, approving the application of a breakaway Scotland? I sure don't. For the good of Scotland, the Scots who favor independence will have to think long and hard about whether it would be worth it to go alone and likely without EU membership.
8
Scotland is already in the EU. It would merely vote to remain in, which it effectively has already done. All it needs to do is break away from England and not much would change.
I visit Spain frequently to visit my son in Barcelona. You are right on target. Spain will never agree to let Scotland into the EU. This would only embolden the desire of both Catalonia and Basques to break-away. If the Scots think they can join the EU, they are delusional. They already have negotiated special treatment within the UK. IF they are smart they will be satisfied with what they have.
OMG global recession is coming. Another good reason to vote for Hillary. How come the Brits are upset about white immigrants from eastern europe? OK so now I guess I will import a British horse since the dollar will be high against the pound.
Sincerely, when government attempts to rule the people in an environment elitism and insists on pandering to specific minority groups, the result will be feelings of anger, frustration and disenfrachisement. Watching our president and his family take multi-million dollar summer and winter vacations are frustrating at best while our vets go without basic medical care and suicides happen daily. While there is no direct correlation between the cost of their vacation and the mess of our VA system, it is a clear illustration of the tone-deafness we see in Washington DC everyday. The vote in Great Britain is not so much about the EU as it is a tone-deaf elitist leader who is clearly not listening to his people. The average American who pays their bills, including their student loans, and who does not spend more than they can afford monthly stands back in disbelief at the deficit and the justification that printing more money means it's OK to spend more money. The constant fight over gun control that goes no where is a joke. I can continue but you get the point. I will vote for anyone who can assure me this 3 ring circus will come to an end and restore a government who is both credible, takes responsibility for their actions and realistic. I believe the Brits are hopeful to restore common sense in their government actions with this vote as well.
10
Today I'm extremely proud of my English heritage!
9
As a well known poet once said, "happiness is but the absence of fear." We cannot be happy if we act in fear, and the Brexit was an act of profound fearfulness and cowardice. As is, of course, any vote for Donald Trump. A friend who is a journalist recently told me of research she undertook in many small towns in Upstate New York. Many of the people there admitted to her that they had never met an immigrant, yet they nevertheless thought immigrants are bad and planned to vote Trump. F.E.A.R. = False Evidence Appearing Real.
2
With all of the dire and opposing predictions, it will be interesting to see if the UK, and its Trump-like voters, will lead the way forward, or backward.
One struggles in vain to find any current or historical examples of successful, culturally 'diverse' societies. Europe's epic failure to assimilate its non-Europeans immigrants is one of the cautionary tales at the heart of Brexit. No other major country, e.g. China, India, Russia, Japan, et al. even pretend that there's any such thing as 'strength in diversity'.
And contrary to much popular opinion, America blossomed in the last century by assimilating immigrants who wanted to be a part of American culture, not by supporting insular, ever expanding cultural ghettos. Yet, in America (and Europe) today, the goal is no longer assimilation of liberal values, but a dangerous and alien concept of 'multi-culturalism,' as if illiberal, hidebound mores are equal to modern, democratic liberalism.
It's past astonishing that the elite opinion of so many in the advanced, industrialized, western world can be so sanguine about the demographic free fall of their native populations, in the naive belief that peoples from vastly different cultures can or will assimilate into the liberal democracies they view as aging, weak and morally repugnant.
The cultural debt we're leaving to our children far exceeds the indisputable financial one.
One struggles in vain to find any current or historical examples of successful, culturally 'diverse' societies. Europe's epic failure to assimilate its non-Europeans immigrants is one of the cautionary tales at the heart of Brexit. No other major country, e.g. China, India, Russia, Japan, et al. even pretend that there's any such thing as 'strength in diversity'.
And contrary to much popular opinion, America blossomed in the last century by assimilating immigrants who wanted to be a part of American culture, not by supporting insular, ever expanding cultural ghettos. Yet, in America (and Europe) today, the goal is no longer assimilation of liberal values, but a dangerous and alien concept of 'multi-culturalism,' as if illiberal, hidebound mores are equal to modern, democratic liberalism.
It's past astonishing that the elite opinion of so many in the advanced, industrialized, western world can be so sanguine about the demographic free fall of their native populations, in the naive belief that peoples from vastly different cultures can or will assimilate into the liberal democracies they view as aging, weak and morally repugnant.
The cultural debt we're leaving to our children far exceeds the indisputable financial one.
6
Thankfully the Brits have broken free of their Socialist masters and money changers in Brussels and now can chart their own destiny without others telling them how to run their country, how many refugees they have to accept and other indignities imposed by the EU. As far as Obama's threat that they would go to the back of the cue when dealing economically with the US hopefully a new president will restore our good relations with Great Britain and make that threat null and void.
3
Immigration is a luxury economy item. When you're down in the ditch it hurts but when you're flying high it's not bad. The problem is we're talking about people and not mice.
Hypocritical of both the US and UK to turn down Muslim immigration when we've supported wars that have upended the region. This was likely a very bad vote on the UK's part which will have a generational effect on the island. Scotland should vote to secede.
Hypocritical of both the US and UK to turn down Muslim immigration when we've supported wars that have upended the region. This was likely a very bad vote on the UK's part which will have a generational effect on the island. Scotland should vote to secede.
2
"and big business behind him. " That says it all.
Big business and the wealthy elite gained the most from open borders and free trade (cheap labor, move manufacturing to cheap countries, etc.). Big business and the wealthy elite also stand the most to lose from Brexit, or any other reduction in free trade agreements such as NAFTA (less cheap labor, no more benefits moving manufacturing overseas, increased competition for labor, etc.).
You watch - competition for workers will go up, resulting in higher wages. Manufacturing will stop exiting and start being brought back. I can only hope the same happens in the US. But watch out for the wealthy elite and the media they own - they don't want it to happen, because they know it hits them in the pocket book.
Big business and the wealthy elite gained the most from open borders and free trade (cheap labor, move manufacturing to cheap countries, etc.). Big business and the wealthy elite also stand the most to lose from Brexit, or any other reduction in free trade agreements such as NAFTA (less cheap labor, no more benefits moving manufacturing overseas, increased competition for labor, etc.).
You watch - competition for workers will go up, resulting in higher wages. Manufacturing will stop exiting and start being brought back. I can only hope the same happens in the US. But watch out for the wealthy elite and the media they own - they don't want it to happen, because they know it hits them in the pocket book.
5
I cannot spend the time to read all the comments here, so I apologize if I'm repeating something already said.
"Stuns the world," in the headline is a bit strong, I would say. This seemed widely predicted and will ultimately be barely lamented.
Millions are cashing in on low stock prices right now.
Ho Hum.
"Stuns the world," in the headline is a bit strong, I would say. This seemed widely predicted and will ultimately be barely lamented.
Millions are cashing in on low stock prices right now.
Ho Hum.
4
Totally right. Only the out-of-touch elites are "stunned". One thing this shows is the difficulty in carrying out reliable polling in today's world. All one had to do is read the comment section of British newspapers on a regular basis and it was clear which way the wind was blowing. It was obvious to me that the British would vote to exit. I've been telling people that for weeks. No one believed me. "Oh, but the polls say.... " Anyone who puts total faith in polls is foolish.
1
When your EU partners start letting Muslim migrants onto the Continent's shores and they're spilling over your borders and you're starting to feel like you're being invaded this is what happens.
10
I blame three conjoining factors: 1) a sensationalized media that cares about creating stories than reporting on real events; 2) legitimate concerns that corporate and political elites are self-serving; and 3) ignorant voters who don't appreciate what they have until they lose it ("Get government's hand off my Medicare!")
On the second matter, a Brexit won't fix elites misbehaving. Voters are rightly angry about a surge in immigration...immigration is good, but a deluge isn't. Secondly, most countries, including Britain have not seen a broad economic recovery after the financial crisis and eurozone debt crisis. Headline economic numbers may look good, but they mask how a few have benefited from the recovery, while it was those very few who created the crisis. This is why the anger and distrust that led voters to a Brexit are found throughout the West in the incarnation of Trump, Len Pen in France, and illiberal democracies in Eastern Europe. Even the center of Europe, like Germany, the Netherlands and Spain are seeing dysfunctional politics. Elites have misbehaved, but the masses are rocking the boat even more because the media is not informing the masses on who really is to blame.
On the second matter, a Brexit won't fix elites misbehaving. Voters are rightly angry about a surge in immigration...immigration is good, but a deluge isn't. Secondly, most countries, including Britain have not seen a broad economic recovery after the financial crisis and eurozone debt crisis. Headline economic numbers may look good, but they mask how a few have benefited from the recovery, while it was those very few who created the crisis. This is why the anger and distrust that led voters to a Brexit are found throughout the West in the incarnation of Trump, Len Pen in France, and illiberal democracies in Eastern Europe. Even the center of Europe, like Germany, the Netherlands and Spain are seeing dysfunctional politics. Elites have misbehaved, but the masses are rocking the boat even more because the media is not informing the masses on who really is to blame.
4
Both sides tried to scare to death the other by predictions of Armageddon. I applaud and support the decision to leave the EU which has become an elite "too politically correct" where national identity could NOT be maintained. So, the choice was stark and the Brits voted the only way a people who are proud of their identity and want to maintain it and not throw it away in the name of some left leanning, liberal ideology that any one has a right to come in to your country whether you like itor not. And, that decision or the decisions would be made by some non-elected elites who do NOT give a dammn about Britain. Additionally, we, the EU, would make the laws and you, Britain, would have to abide by them even if they are against your own and clearly destroy your soverignty.
I DON'T THINK THE BRITS COULD HAVE DOEN OTHER WISE. BRAVO!!!!
Only time will tell.
I DON'T THINK THE BRITS COULD HAVE DOEN OTHER WISE. BRAVO!!!!
Only time will tell.
5
What are you going to say to the Scots when they use exactly the same arguments about the English when they vote to leave the UK sometime in the very near future?
Or did you honestly not see that one coming?
Or did you honestly not see that one coming?
The good news is Coldplay will have to apply for a visa to play outside of England.
2
That's OK, I'm saturated well enough by their outriggings. If Hillary says Katy Perry one more time I'm going On Guard! She needs to be channeling Eleanor of Aquitaine, not rosyland. Oh, I moisten myself, but only she might get that yoke. Cheating husbands...
1
The British have done the US a huge favor; they have started a demonstration of what would happen if Donald Trump were to be elected President. For the next six months we are going to see the consequences of voting for the "populist", "burn down the old system" political program, and it will not be pretty.
But this is what Donald Trump is running on, this is the decision that he is endorsing, so the American voter should look at this as a Trump preview.
It will be huge.
But this is what Donald Trump is running on, this is the decision that he is endorsing, so the American voter should look at this as a Trump preview.
It will be huge.
2
Britain’s exit from the EU is a harbinger of things to come with the rise of Donald Trump in America. Money and power has been concentrated in the hands of too few people for too long. Voters in Great Britain who voted to leave are not acting against their self-interest. It is in the interest of big business and hedge fund managers to promote “unity” not because it has any inherent value but because it is cheaper to trade goods that way.
Calling the British who voted to leave the EU xenophobic in opposing mass immigration is a ploy to disguise the fact that corporations and small businesses want to create a cheap and desperate labor pool. Perhaps if the economy was truly in better shape and not benefiting just the upper crust and their hedge fund managers, Great Britain would have voted differently.
Calling the British who voted to leave the EU xenophobic in opposing mass immigration is a ploy to disguise the fact that corporations and small businesses want to create a cheap and desperate labor pool. Perhaps if the economy was truly in better shape and not benefiting just the upper crust and their hedge fund managers, Great Britain would have voted differently.
3
Wanting a government that exercises common sense and uses good judgement by rejecting overspending and babysitting foreigners who don't even like British citizens seems reasonable to me. The dream of a world order style government must be tempered by an understanding of how human nature will always corrupt those who find themselves at the top of such a government. The English people served themselves well by making the choice to control their own destiny in light of recent evidence of such corruption, in the form of personal gratification and power abuse.
Cheers from Texas!
Cheers from Texas!
2
Reality will bite Britain and not as a joke. An Englishman, an Irishman and a Scotsman show up on a building site in London. Asks the foreman, "What`s this? A joke?"
2
64% of those who voted to REMAIN were 18-35yr olds. The majority of those voting to leave will be dead in 15-20yrs and leave a really unpleasant mess to the young. What a bunch of selfish, racist, xenophobes. This was always about race and delusions of former Empire glory days. The Brits will reap what they sow. I hope Scotland leaves Britain.
3
Look at the unemployment rate for young people in the EU. The unions protect the current jobholders and the young only get temp jobs at best, despite free university educations. The young in the UK may have wanted to stay in the EU because they can have cheap vacations in the sunny South, but the EU offers no hope for its own youth.
Also, if you look at the European papers today, a lot of people in France, Italy and Scandinavia also want their own referenda. Everyone is getting sick of the EU and wanting their freedom.
Also, if you look at the European papers today, a lot of people in France, Italy and Scandinavia also want their own referenda. Everyone is getting sick of the EU and wanting their freedom.
1
It's this sort of misguided, ill informed nonsense that the Remainers were trying to put out there. Martin, this has nothing at all to do with racism or xenophobia. It may take a few years, but this country will do just fine on it's own, and I'll be young enough to see it. I'm 49, and voted out.
A powerful week for the world...notably so for the status of immigration. On this issue alone, the combination of the U.S. 4-4 ruling and the flow of migrants into Europe highlight the influence this problem has. The U.S. and Britain conspired for involvement in the Middle East, ( de-stabilized to the point of no return) and now find their countries rocked to the core with unimaginable outcomes. Will the lion ever lie down with the lamb?
1
Looking homeward, as sad as it may be, this bodes extremely well for Trump...a wall is a wall is a wall...
Isolate and insulate yourself no matter the consequences.
A wall is a wall
Isolate and insulate yourself no matter the consequences.
A wall is a wall
1
And the Donald celebrates on Scottish golf course. Someone give him Google.
At least now they can deport those imams preaching hatred for the west while living and supporting their multiple wives on the public dole. the WU prohibits deporting someone to a country that could subject them to the death penalty, which automatically leaves out any muslim country living under sharia.
1
You can always count on the stupidity and selfishness of human beings.
1
Interesting how instead of reporting this the majority of the U.S. press has taken a side and made this into a negative- fear the right wing , the sky is falling. I think we have to look beyond the short term stock market implications. Europe's economy has been a mess and in recession for years now with the European Union in place. Not so sure this will turn out as a bad decision for the Brits. We may look back in 10 years and understand just how beneficial it has been for them. Most of the shock is because the same press has been saying polls indicate they will not leave for the last month. Again the polls and those spewing their inaccurate results were wrong.
3
Where the Brits may say in British English, "That didn't quite go as planned", we should translate into American English "We may have just ruined the British economy, given Scotland a reason to leave the UK, and caused irreparable harm to European stability. "
4
I feel bad for the Brits who really, simply like to see an independent UK and nothing more.
They're in for attacks from all sides: Xenophobic! Racist! Anti-immigrant! Uneducated!
They're in for attacks from all sides: Xenophobic! Racist! Anti-immigrant! Uneducated!
2
I have a couple of thoughts on this. First, this is a momentous decision that should never have been passed on a simple majority. The lesson here is that popular referendums on major issues such as union should require a super majority. Now, Britain is divided, and this will create serious ramifications for years to come including the possible split of Scotland and possibly Northern Ireland and Wales. If a super majority of British people voted to leave, that would be one thing, but popular moods are fickle, and major decisions like this should not be made on a transitory whim. My second thought is that it is a sad day for the world. The world needs to be more integrated if we are going to survive, not less. This moves in the wrong direction. With Trump wanting to undo the Washington Consensus that has structured the post WWII order, we are moving into dangerous waters. Old structures are potentially being discarded with only a fuzzy pipe dream of what comes next, and dysfunctional governing structures that are poorly equipped to make decisions. Very unfortunate.
The Brits should brace for that hangover that will inevitably take hold when they realize that Europe has not been the source of their problems. Additionally, a country that imports most things, and manufactures very little for export, will not be aided by a weaker currency.
5
Lorem Ipsum @DFW Texas-
Say again that this Black Swan event is such "Only if the nest is at Number Ten".
Black Swan event:an unpredictable or unforeseen event, typically one with extreme consequences; an event that comes as a surprise, has a major effect......
Herewith for your reflection:
"U.S. stocks nosedived Friday as investors stunned by United Kingdom voters' unexpected move to exit the European Union and Prime Minister David Cameron's subsequent resignation announcement sent global markets into a tailspin. Amid swirling uncertainty over the impact of the so-called "Brexit," the Dow Jones industrial average tumbled 515 points in midday trading, a 2.9% drop. The S&P 500 was off 3%, while the Nasdaq composite was down 3.7%."Some $675 billion in U.S. market value had been erased in Friday’s selloff as of about noon ET, as measured by the Wilshire 5000 index.
(Nathan Bomey and Matt Krantz, USA TODAY 1:43 p.m. EDT June 24, 2016)
Say again that this Black Swan event is such "Only if the nest is at Number Ten".
Black Swan event:an unpredictable or unforeseen event, typically one with extreme consequences; an event that comes as a surprise, has a major effect......
Herewith for your reflection:
"U.S. stocks nosedived Friday as investors stunned by United Kingdom voters' unexpected move to exit the European Union and Prime Minister David Cameron's subsequent resignation announcement sent global markets into a tailspin. Amid swirling uncertainty over the impact of the so-called "Brexit," the Dow Jones industrial average tumbled 515 points in midday trading, a 2.9% drop. The S&P 500 was off 3%, while the Nasdaq composite was down 3.7%."Some $675 billion in U.S. market value had been erased in Friday’s selloff as of about noon ET, as measured by the Wilshire 5000 index.
(Nathan Bomey and Matt Krantz, USA TODAY 1:43 p.m. EDT June 24, 2016)
2
A joke that's been making the rounds for a few years: England is a country full of hard-working people, all of whom are from Poland.
You have to live in the EU to realize how incredibly corrupt and undemocratic it is. The EU has destroyed Slovakia's dairy industry and forces it to import substandard products from Poland. Also, laboratory testing revealed that the products sent from Western Europe to the EU countries in Central Europe are markedly inferior to what they use. Adults here hate the EU, even though I have to admit young people love it; then again, they're too young to know any alternatives.
You have to live in the EU to realize how incredibly corrupt and undemocratic it is. The EU has destroyed Slovakia's dairy industry and forces it to import substandard products from Poland. Also, laboratory testing revealed that the products sent from Western Europe to the EU countries in Central Europe are markedly inferior to what they use. Adults here hate the EU, even though I have to admit young people love it; then again, they're too young to know any alternatives.
5
The UK may just be the first to pull out. It could easily have been one of the others, and I suspect more will follow since many are already on that trajectory.
If the EU begins to unravel, I'm not so sure Scotland will vote to leave the UK for something more uncertain. If the Scots see further unraveling after the 2017 elections in France and Germany, I doubt they will bolt the Union (then again, populism is a wild, unpredictable beast...).
It seemed until recently that the EU had fulfilled its purpose--to prevent another cataclysmic European war. However, the deep nationalist sentiments were only somewhat submerged, rather than being dissolved or converted into a larger "Europe" national identity.
Ironically, it seems to be the unprecedented waves of refugees and economic immigrants resulting from NATO countries destroying third-world governments from Afghanistan to Libya that has pushed European voters from unease over immigration in general to open revolt.
What concerns me most (as a distant observer) is how the "vindicated" far right will treat immigrants already in the UK and other countries (Trump is now exultant about his prospects in the US election--with reason).
Unsettling times indeed. May sanity and decency prevail.
If the EU begins to unravel, I'm not so sure Scotland will vote to leave the UK for something more uncertain. If the Scots see further unraveling after the 2017 elections in France and Germany, I doubt they will bolt the Union (then again, populism is a wild, unpredictable beast...).
It seemed until recently that the EU had fulfilled its purpose--to prevent another cataclysmic European war. However, the deep nationalist sentiments were only somewhat submerged, rather than being dissolved or converted into a larger "Europe" national identity.
Ironically, it seems to be the unprecedented waves of refugees and economic immigrants resulting from NATO countries destroying third-world governments from Afghanistan to Libya that has pushed European voters from unease over immigration in general to open revolt.
What concerns me most (as a distant observer) is how the "vindicated" far right will treat immigrants already in the UK and other countries (Trump is now exultant about his prospects in the US election--with reason).
Unsettling times indeed. May sanity and decency prevail.
6
"BRITAIN STUNS WORLD WITH VOTE TO LEAVE E.U."
Should be:
"BRITAIN STUNS 1% WITH VOTE TO LEAVE E.U."
Should be:
"BRITAIN STUNS 1% WITH VOTE TO LEAVE E.U."
9
The British are a very strong people. They endured tremendous suffering with German bombing of their cities, and rationing to keep their nation free. Free of foreign domination.
Yes, there might be an economic impact, but freedom does have a price and the British have always been willing to pay it.
As the song goes, in Rule Britannia "Briton's never ever shall be slaves".
Slaves to the unelected EU bureaucracy in Brussels.
Yes, UK needs the EU countries, and in turn they need the UK. After all the pontificating they will work out the trade issue as they both need it for their mutual economic survival.
Yes, there might be an economic impact, but freedom does have a price and the British have always been willing to pay it.
As the song goes, in Rule Britannia "Briton's never ever shall be slaves".
Slaves to the unelected EU bureaucracy in Brussels.
Yes, UK needs the EU countries, and in turn they need the UK. After all the pontificating they will work out the trade issue as they both need it for their mutual economic survival.
9
"Free from foreign domination" - Thats rich, coming from one of the great imperial powers.
2
If the critics of brexit are so correct, why don't you try instead pushing for US to join EU, if it is so good to be a part of that bloated bureaucracy self-fertilized by the votes of wellfare recipients it attracts.
8
Britian has stood alone before, and survived and endured. Think WWII. Maybe however, this young generation is just too soft to risk a future without
Britain has survived far worse dislocations than this exit.
think WW 2. Maybe however, this current generation is too risk aversive to survive without the support of Germany.
Britain has survived far worse dislocations than this exit.
think WW 2. Maybe however, this current generation is too risk aversive to survive without the support of Germany.
2
whome
Britain survived World War I and World War II because millions of American boys and girls went over there and pulled their bacon out of the fire.
Next time they have a problem like that, maybe they should call somebody else to come help. After all, they want to be "INDEPENDENT."
The EU was originally set up to make war in Europe unthinkable, by having very close commercial ties among the countries, Germany and France in particular. That has worked fine lo these 65 or so years. But who's counting?
Britain survived World War I and World War II because millions of American boys and girls went over there and pulled their bacon out of the fire.
Next time they have a problem like that, maybe they should call somebody else to come help. After all, they want to be "INDEPENDENT."
The EU was originally set up to make war in Europe unthinkable, by having very close commercial ties among the countries, Germany and France in particular. That has worked fine lo these 65 or so years. But who's counting?
Congratulation to Britain. I am so glad you broke away. You will pave the way for others to take the same road. With some luck maybe we will have a D-exit here and get rid of the liberals and their insane immigration policies in the USA. I believe that there will be a stunning victory for us "xenophobic, racist, anti-immigrant" folks here. D-exit ( Democrat Exit ) is what we need here.
6
The refugees who are fleeing into Britain, Germany, Greece, etc are not looking for a vacation they are fleeing FROM something(s) possibly rather like the slowly building genocide we saw gradually overtake the German Jews in the 1930s. Leave them to their fate, seems to be the attitude of many of the Brexit-ites and Trumpites. Isolationism is fine until the genocidal regimes start expanding because they decide they would like more room. We've seen ALL this before, and it wasn't a happy sight.
Perhaps Europe will head back to the city/state model and we can have lots of little rivalries. I think we should work toward making our tribal allegiances larger, rather than smaller. Sad day for me.
2
like this didnt happen already, this must be the civilian Brexit
They really need Donald Trump. He will make Great Britain GREAT, again. He's in Scotland today. I implore them to KEEP him. PLEASE!!!
7
Why were the British people even allowed or asked to make a decision that most of them did not understand?
6
This kind of thinking is EXACTLY why the vote went the way it did.
Charles I - is that you?
Because we don't test people's IQ before we allow them to vote. Are you suggesting we do?
I would have thought for sure that the Brits would reject freedom and self-determination so Big Government bureaucrats could control every aspect of their lives
5
Trump, in Scotland, proclaims Brexit result `a great thing', overlooking the fact that the people of Scotland overwhelmingly voted to remain part of E.U.
America's national embarrassment went on to say that whatever economic pain Brexit brings the U.K. it will be good for his personal business.
And he apparently said something about a sprinkler system. A real statesman.
America's national embarrassment went on to say that whatever economic pain Brexit brings the U.K. it will be good for his personal business.
And he apparently said something about a sprinkler system. A real statesman.
6
In 1947, India got independence from the British Raj. In 2016, the British got independence from Merkel Raj. Back in 1947, the elites warned India that it would fall apart in 15 years and that we would beg the British to come back and rule us again. The same elites are now warning the UK that they will fall apart and beg to rejoin the EU. Ignore them.
Congratulations to the people of the UK and best wishes!
Congratulations to the people of the UK and best wishes!
12
And America had its own Brexit--called the American Revolution. How did that fare?
A friend in London pointed out this morning that the demographic that pushed the Leave vote to victory were voters over 65. This group will only have to live with the consequences for 15-20 years. The youngest voters, who overwhelmingly voted to stay, will have to live with the consequences for 70 years. Once again, just like in this country, the boomers have screwed up. Our one candidate who demanded serious reform of our institutions and political landscape, and who similarly was overwhelmingly supported by voters under 45 was defeated by the boomers. The short-sighted, fearful boomers who are leaving such a mess behind them for others to clean up. (Full disclosure: I'm a white 69-year-old boomer).
2
I am British and I voted to stay but understand why people wanted to leave. The problem being this:
People from other European countries, mainly Romania and Poland (less so) could come to the UK and claim Government Benefit for houses and not being able to find work and being able to receive free treatment on the NHS sometimes running into tens of thousands of pounds.
A perfect example of this was a TV programme aired a year or so ago showing a Romanian family who came to the UK, claiming thousands in benefits and saying thank you to the English for allowing me to have this free money so I can send it back to Romania and build a house. THAT IS MADNESS.
You can come to the UK and claim benefits for your children who remain in their own country. How does the UK Government really know how many children you have? You cannot take out before you put anything into the system. This is what drove people crazy. The UK was being ripped off. I do not believe it was anything to do with people coming to the UK for work. It was the scroungers.
Sean Lock the comedian made a great point. Old people should not be allowed to vote at all in the referendum. By the time we exit the EU fully most will be dead or dying. They have had their moment living through the good times with cheap housing and plentiful jobs. 16 year olds should be allowed to vote.
I still blame the bankers (2008 crash)
People from other European countries, mainly Romania and Poland (less so) could come to the UK and claim Government Benefit for houses and not being able to find work and being able to receive free treatment on the NHS sometimes running into tens of thousands of pounds.
A perfect example of this was a TV programme aired a year or so ago showing a Romanian family who came to the UK, claiming thousands in benefits and saying thank you to the English for allowing me to have this free money so I can send it back to Romania and build a house. THAT IS MADNESS.
You can come to the UK and claim benefits for your children who remain in their own country. How does the UK Government really know how many children you have? You cannot take out before you put anything into the system. This is what drove people crazy. The UK was being ripped off. I do not believe it was anything to do with people coming to the UK for work. It was the scroungers.
Sean Lock the comedian made a great point. Old people should not be allowed to vote at all in the referendum. By the time we exit the EU fully most will be dead or dying. They have had their moment living through the good times with cheap housing and plentiful jobs. 16 year olds should be allowed to vote.
I still blame the bankers (2008 crash)
8
Nationalism is here to stay and Trump will win the U.S presidency. Down with the elites plans to mix us up with the third world and get us used to third world living.
3
The NY Times' coverage is a bit skewed here. I've been following the coverage of Brexit in the UK newspapers, and there were reasonable arguments for Leave that had nothing to do with xenophobia or immigration. Just look at the voting patterns, for example; that most of Wales voted to leave, that Merthyr Tydfil, for example, voted to leave whereas Cardiff voted to remain, says a lot about the economic and political anxieties that produced this result. The past 30 years or so have not been kind to Merthyr Tydfil and other Welsh industrial centers. Now whether or not the EU was responsible for that, I don't know - but I do think that many people who voted to leave did so not because they are nativist or xenophobic but because economic developments in recent decades and left them the losers. For those folks, it is not clear that economic integration is in fact beneficial - probably because so many of the benefits have been distributed so inequitably. Just compare the general wealth of London and its environs with the North.
I don't know whether Brexit is a good or bad thing. But I do hope that "elites" through the Americas and Europe finally face the problem of growing inequality.
I don't know whether Brexit is a good or bad thing. But I do hope that "elites" through the Americas and Europe finally face the problem of growing inequality.
10
This is a victory for China. Up next, the fractured USA.
2
For a certain segment of the population it is too easy to throw out "racist". "xenophobic" and "bigot" as an explanation for some people rejecting the status quo. Unfortunately, placing those labels on things effectively stifles debate and potentially, masks the underlying issues. It seems clear with the popularity of Trump (as well as Saunders) and the vote to leave the EU there is a large group of people unhappy with the way they are governed. To label them all is counterproductive in my opinion.
The EU has developed into a massive bureaucracy, unelected by the people. Every aspect of European life, European culture and European business is subject to a mind boggling array of rules, laws and restrictions. As with any bureaucracy, Brussels continues to identify more things which need rules. We like to believe we are free but, in fact, we are tightly regulated as well.
Let's stop with the labels for awhile and participate in open and honest debate of the issues. The Brits did that and have made a decision for their future. I suspect many of them put sovereignty ahead of the EU and their decision had nothing to do with bigotry, racism or xenophobia. I suspect many of them are willing to sacrifice and pay the price that sovereignty will cost as they paid the price to hold off Hitler in 1939 and 1940. Some would call that patriotism.
The EU has developed into a massive bureaucracy, unelected by the people. Every aspect of European life, European culture and European business is subject to a mind boggling array of rules, laws and restrictions. As with any bureaucracy, Brussels continues to identify more things which need rules. We like to believe we are free but, in fact, we are tightly regulated as well.
Let's stop with the labels for awhile and participate in open and honest debate of the issues. The Brits did that and have made a decision for their future. I suspect many of them put sovereignty ahead of the EU and their decision had nothing to do with bigotry, racism or xenophobia. I suspect many of them are willing to sacrifice and pay the price that sovereignty will cost as they paid the price to hold off Hitler in 1939 and 1940. Some would call that patriotism.
10
Trump is in Great Britain.......maybe they will do us a favor and keep him.
5
Maybe we in the U.S. are being given a rare opportunity: A preview of the negative consequences of reactionary, racist actions.
6
Being racist and being against illegal immigration are two very different things
7
Babs:
Agreed.
But here, you have to win a majority of the Electoral College, not a referendum.
If historical patterns hold, states that have gone BLUE for the past 20 years add up to about 240 of the required 270 Electoral College votes needed.
Big difference from a simple referendum. George W. Bush LOST the popular vote in 2000, but he won the Presidency by a 5 to 4 vote by unelected Supreme Court Justices.
Agreed.
But here, you have to win a majority of the Electoral College, not a referendum.
If historical patterns hold, states that have gone BLUE for the past 20 years add up to about 240 of the required 270 Electoral College votes needed.
Big difference from a simple referendum. George W. Bush LOST the popular vote in 2000, but he won the Presidency by a 5 to 4 vote by unelected Supreme Court Justices.
2
So easy to call those who wish to retain their cultural identity and sovereignty as racists and dismiss them. Maybe if the elites had listened to their legitimate concerns and addressed the acknowledged problems with the EU, the outcome would have been different. One can only hope that the elites of both parties here get the message.
1
Look at the history of Europe for the past millennium, it's full of blood, fight, and "me" first. EU, despite of its drawbacks and difficulties, shows a "united" Europe with the conscience of "us". The ups and downs are unavoidable for this great history making process for Europe and the world. But it appeared that the "Great" Britain chickens out. What a shame!
Congratulations to the "Great" Britain for making your own history.
Congratulations to the "Great" Britain for making your own history.
When a vote is 52% to 48% isn't that just as meaningful as flipping a coin? Can you imagine Cameron just standing on the floor of Parliament saying "Our county's future - heads or tails?"
2
For the first time....it seems like the Scots have the right idea about staying....don't blame them for leaving the commonwealth now.
The vote simply means that the have-nots far outnumber the haves and the former finally could no longer stand the implosion and insecurity of their lives. As far the the world order goes, it's time to re-read our history of the leadup to the French Revolution.
5
It's very ironic for a nation with a history of imposing their way on other places, to suddenly not want foreigners coming in and changing their culture. I also don't get the negativity about globalism. We're all in this together. The rest of the world isn't going anywhere. Pretending that your country can go at it alone is naive at best.
3
They're still in NATO. Trade with Europe will not be stifled. Instead, Britain now has more autonomy to do what's best for its own nation. The EU could not work- Europe either needs complete integration (Europe as one nation) or a more simple trade agreement (Nafta) that does not bind nations to rules created by unelected bureaucrats from foreign nations
1
It's probably not so much ironic as inevitable.
Cameron's resignation is a huge missed opportunity. This could have been his WWII (a chance to succeed through adversity), his India Independence (a chance to enact reforms that will benefit this new England). Instead, his office is likely to be filled by Farage: the British equivalent of Trump.
This was a chance for the PM to guide his country through the upcoming turmoil even though it was not of his choosing. Half of his country fought the exit, and he owes it to them to make sure the choices going forward are thoughtful and well-executed. Half his country pushed for the exit, and he owes it to them to represent their wishes and needs.
Cameron has the experience to make the exit work. The fact that he left in such a snit shows how far from their stalwart predecessors the British work ethic has fallen.
He has missed his moment, and Atlee is looking down his nose at him.
This was a chance for the PM to guide his country through the upcoming turmoil even though it was not of his choosing. Half of his country fought the exit, and he owes it to them to make sure the choices going forward are thoughtful and well-executed. Half his country pushed for the exit, and he owes it to them to represent their wishes and needs.
Cameron has the experience to make the exit work. The fact that he left in such a snit shows how far from their stalwart predecessors the British work ethic has fallen.
He has missed his moment, and Atlee is looking down his nose at him.
2
The Brits were never enthusiastic supporters of the EU, especially as the "European Project" seemed to become an effort by Germany to dominate Europe, fulfilling its self-proclaimed destiny, previously thwarted in two World Wars. Now the EU itself is under attack. It's one thing to eliminate barriers to free trade within Europe. It's quite another to surrender control of economic policy and regulation to the unelected Brussels bureaucracy.
1
The Brexit vote surely portends what awaits us here in the US on November 8th. The poor souls in Great Britain who believe that Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson can resurrect England's heavy manufacturing based in coal, along with banning the immigration of foreign nationals are the same as the poor souls in America that believe that Donald Trump will resurrect coal mining in Appalachia, along with building a wall to keep Hispanics out.
The pliability of the minds of those who would advocate for Trump, and those who advocate for cessation from the EU is astounding.
The pliability of the minds of those who would advocate for Trump, and those who advocate for cessation from the EU is astounding.
105
Despite what some say, globalization is not the chief cause of job loss. Studies are now showing that mechanization is in fact responsible for 90% of the job loss. Consumer demands everywhere are for equal quality at lower prices. Most people do not remember who the original built in America retailer was, Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart quickly learned that people really want is "as good at lower prices".
This is about one thing only. it's about the unrestricted migration and travel inside the EU. Britain's laws are among the most accomodating due to it's history of open Commonwealth migration, and it is the preferred destination for a majority of migrants, legal and illegal.
3
In all probability only 2/3 of the UK will leave the EU. The Scots have announced a new independence referendum, and this time they may get the majority.
So within a few months, England will be embroiled in separation negotiations with the Eu on one hand and with Scotland on another! And Scotland will hold its own negotiations on staying with the EU.
In the meantime, the various countries' problems will be put on hold. And while Europe is busy splitting (don't forget Catalonia) Putin will get stronger. He will actually gather more lands around him. And of course the islamists will have a ball with all that they have achieved.
Pretty interesting times ahead! Sometimes too much democracy causes well-intended people to fall in the hands of dictators.
So within a few months, England will be embroiled in separation negotiations with the Eu on one hand and with Scotland on another! And Scotland will hold its own negotiations on staying with the EU.
In the meantime, the various countries' problems will be put on hold. And while Europe is busy splitting (don't forget Catalonia) Putin will get stronger. He will actually gather more lands around him. And of course the islamists will have a ball with all that they have achieved.
Pretty interesting times ahead! Sometimes too much democracy causes well-intended people to fall in the hands of dictators.
Brexit and the rise of Trump are the direct result of the ruling elites ignoring the concerns of the common folk, labeling them as racist, ignorant and self interested because they saw their jobs, culture and national identity disappearing before their eyes. Shame on the elites. People are not as stupid as you assumed.
4
I see Britain leaving the EU as being similar to Trump winning the presidential election. The same racist sentiments that fueled the "leave the EU" vote, are the same sentiments behind "Make America Great [White] Again". This is a wake up call, Voters/Supporters of Hillary Clinton. If Clinton supporters don't go out to the polls in droves to defeat Trump, we'll be in the same boat Britain is in today.
1
An aside:It shouldn't go unnoticed (in USA) that UK counted more than 30 million votes so efficiently without a hitch and announced each result so cleanly providing all details. Compare this with the more than million votes still sitting uncounted in CA locker rooms from the June 7 Dem primary.
3
I would like to think this vote in the UK will serve also as a wake-up call for the Hillary Clinton campaign. One shouldn't draw a direct analogy between the 'Brexit' vote and the American presidential election campaign of course, but I believe she needs to fashion an unconventional appeal to those who are disaffected with establishment politics and its approach to the world. The standard attacks on her opponent for all he may be and has done will not register with those who simply want to force the political establishment into change. Unfortunately for her, as a card-carrying member of that establishment, this will take some work. As a first step, she should send the Presidential spouse home into retirement for good, and start surrounding herself with Democrats and independents of the new generation.
2
The mystery to me is why the mystery? Because journalist rub elbows with the elite. The elite tell them what a wonderful world they've created as cash flows into their pockets. All the time telling the working class that lower taxes, free trade, and union busting will set you free and lead you to a world of prosperity. It's all been lies. The elite better get their collective stuff together and figure this out. Two ways this goes down. Authoritarian or responsive democracy. My bet is the elite choose option one and try to crush decent. The true winners will be the nations whose elites choose option two. Look no further than after the Great Depression for the history lesson.
3
Although the usual far right cage rattlers hope for a wholesale breakup of the EU, I'd like to think of Brexit as an opportunity for the EU to move towards a two-speed model.
Brexit makes it is clear, or at least it should, that a one size fits all membership model wrankles national sensibilites far more than it rallies cohesion within the EU. The UK was never interested in political integration or even economic integration on terms it did not control itself. It achieved that goal by shaping EU policy in ways too numerous to count; from opt-outs, reimbursement of "dues", to blocking any policy even touching other countries (euro zone / Schengen).
Further integration amongst the willing based on a variable geometry model will allow the willing to move forward to achiece truly workable solutions to govern the euro, schengen, defense, financial oversight, fiscal and labour laws... Those not willing to go along may remain and enjoy the current benefits of a common market and freedom of movement, but they then should not expect to drive policy nor impede it for those members who do, as the UK has done systematically throughout its membership.
This two (or variable) speed model is not an a la carte selection, nor is ot a silver bullet for the EU's currently unwieldy 28 country governance structure. It would address the biggest complaint, allowing members' populations to feel represented and disarm the image of the EU as a distant ruling potentate.
Brexit makes it is clear, or at least it should, that a one size fits all membership model wrankles national sensibilites far more than it rallies cohesion within the EU. The UK was never interested in political integration or even economic integration on terms it did not control itself. It achieved that goal by shaping EU policy in ways too numerous to count; from opt-outs, reimbursement of "dues", to blocking any policy even touching other countries (euro zone / Schengen).
Further integration amongst the willing based on a variable geometry model will allow the willing to move forward to achiece truly workable solutions to govern the euro, schengen, defense, financial oversight, fiscal and labour laws... Those not willing to go along may remain and enjoy the current benefits of a common market and freedom of movement, but they then should not expect to drive policy nor impede it for those members who do, as the UK has done systematically throughout its membership.
This two (or variable) speed model is not an a la carte selection, nor is ot a silver bullet for the EU's currently unwieldy 28 country governance structure. It would address the biggest complaint, allowing members' populations to feel represented and disarm the image of the EU as a distant ruling potentate.
Looking at the voting graphic map illustrates best remain and leave. The countryside wanted out. The cities wanted to remain.
We have the same dynamic with Trump. The under educated suburban isolationists are his supporters. And they are fed up. Unfortunately Trump will only make their problems worse.
We have the same dynamic with Trump. The under educated suburban isolationists are his supporters. And they are fed up. Unfortunately Trump will only make their problems worse.
"Under educated." What an arrogant term. There are many who shun those who are "Over educated" because they are seen as disciples if Saul Alinsky, et al, and look down their noses over their Harvard degrees at the unwashed masses who truly work for a living. Get over yourself.
3
But it's true, no? Under educated typically means those with a high school diploma or less, right? Typically found in highest concentrations in more rural areas of the country? Post secondary education does actually produce dramatic results for people economically over their lifetimes. And it usually challenges them to examine their worldview - at least a little bit.
I don't blame them for leaving, I would too. It's quite obvious that Europe is in a downward spiral towards chaos, not likely to be reversed any time soon. Strong nations like Britain were left to take care of all of the EU's floundering members like Greece. The EU just wants to drag Britain down with the ship. Well done Britain, hopefully the rest of the EU will just dissolve, then hopefully the UN is next.
6
Anti-immigration sentiment was a large part of the Brexit movement (as it is with Trump supporters). The Brits who voted to leave the EU were against allowing the Muslims fleeing Syria and flooding Europe, to come into the UK. I've heard one political analyst say that the civil war in Syria was due in large part to the George W. Bush administration because the war in Iraq and subsequent US policy basically is responsible for the creation of ISIS, which is now fighting in Syria, and causing the massive refugee crisis and immigration problem in the EU. Bush/Cheney, the gift that keeps on giving.
3
But pulling out of Iraq early after announcing the exact date did nothing to stoke the ISIS fire, eh?
Good grief...understanding world events requires looking at the entire big picture...not just blaming Bush for everything.
Good grief...understanding world events requires looking at the entire big picture...not just blaming Bush for everything.
1
Oh, please. Stop blaming Bush. He reacted to a situation that no sitting President has ever had to deal with. Obama on the other hand has demonstrated shocking incompetence.
"But pulling out of Iraq early after announcing the exact date did nothing to stoke the ISIS fire, eh?" Well, your point would never have been an issue if Bush/Cheney had never invaded Iraq in the first place, and mislead the American public with false information about WMD etc. This is not about blaming Bush for everything, just placing blame where it rightfully belongs. Also, it was the Iraqi government that told the US to leave, not that the US was "pulling out early." (Were we supposed to stay there indefinitely?) Finally, the timetable for withdrawal of US troops was made by BUSH with the Iraqi government. Please get your facts straight instead of apologizing for Bush, one of the worst presidents of all time.
1
Many Americans are commenting about the Brexit vote because they were raised by parents who served in the US military during WW-2 and/or had grandparents who served to help save Britain and died on these foreign shores. More than four hundred thousand Americans died defending Europe during WW-2 alone. The founding the EU gave everyone in the world a sigh of relief that war was not going to dominate the future of Europe and economic growth and partnerships would develop between nations. America so believed in European peace that it established economic programs and plans to help rebuild Europe- the Marshall Plan. What a nightmare that Britain voters has forgotten the price paid by world to save it and willing to abandon a secure, peaceful future for Europe by abandoning the EU. Going it alone often don't have all the advantages that politicians claim just look at the 20th century for the proof.
6
A very inspiring comment. Thank you!
Sadly I see a similar trend here in the U.S. As in the UK, the uneducated, rural parts of the country want to break into small confederacies. Somehow, this is supposed to bring untold economic and political benefits, and more "freedom," as in discrimination against immigrants, minorities, the poor, etc.
Anybody who is thinking about not voting for Hillary needs to get off their duff. We're looking out into the abyss and I don't like what I see.
Anybody who is thinking about not voting for Hillary needs to get off their duff. We're looking out into the abyss and I don't like what I see.
2
Interesting generalization. I am female, hold a doctorate degree in the medical field, and would never dream of voting for Hillary, even though I'm not a huge Trump fan.
Which pigeonhole would you like me stuffed into?
Which pigeonhole would you like me stuffed into?
1
The only reason EU exists is to bind countries to British, German, French and Dutch banking & industrial elites. The import of cheap labor and the erosion of middle class votes are serving no one but the 0.01%er in their scheme to turn the West into an oligarchy.
2
The EU is a model of big, unresponsive government; it handling of Greece and debt issues has been shameful. It has been overwhelmed by the migration issue. An analyst for the Wall St. Journal claimed that the UK would not thrive economically outside of the EU. As the 5th largest economy in the world, what does that say for all other countries. What about Singapore, a city-state with an amazing economy? Globalization is more about the connection of global cities not whole countries. These cities are microcosms of the the world and pull along and support their hinterlands. London will still be London. BTW, would not the US be better off if the South were free and independent from the rest of the country as if the Confederacy had won the Civil War? As a Californian, California would definitely be better off liberated from the gridlock imposed by the party of Trump and its nihilistic know-nothings. Its problematic that the current reality of US politics is sustainable. It is becoming a failed state unable to govern itself in a rational and proactive way. Its one success, the capacity for military intervention and destruction is not a blessing for the world.
1
Stop saying "Brexit" and call this fiasco what it is: the UK's rejection of Europe.
3
The market chaos, as I'm understanding from Bloomberg, is that there was no Plan B. The vaunted market never 'believed' that the vote would be for 'exit'.
That's "Faith-based markets", the hierarchy will stand, no one will REALLY want to exit....
So, my question is: In November, should Clueless Don win, do we have a Plan B?
And I call him 'clueless' because it's my understanding that he didn't have a clue on what 'Brexit" was. Really? And he's supposed to be a business man?
Trump is smoke and mirrors, unable to coherently explain even one facet of his economics except to tell us that we'll "love it".... and he'll tell what it is later.
Today's market chaos is what we'll have come November.
There is no Plan B.
There never is with a faith-based reality.
"Believe me."
That's "Faith-based markets", the hierarchy will stand, no one will REALLY want to exit....
So, my question is: In November, should Clueless Don win, do we have a Plan B?
And I call him 'clueless' because it's my understanding that he didn't have a clue on what 'Brexit" was. Really? And he's supposed to be a business man?
Trump is smoke and mirrors, unable to coherently explain even one facet of his economics except to tell us that we'll "love it".... and he'll tell what it is later.
Today's market chaos is what we'll have come November.
There is no Plan B.
There never is with a faith-based reality.
"Believe me."
3
How about Obama's "Hope"?
Sanders' "A Future to Believe In"?
The whole world is a faith-based reality. Get over yourself and blaming this view on Trump.
Sanders' "A Future to Believe In"?
The whole world is a faith-based reality. Get over yourself and blaming this view on Trump.
My question is how can this be a good thing? I was under the impression that the UK was doing very well financially. The issue is this isn't the 1930s. We live in a global economy. Here in the U.S., Trump is trying to send us back to the same isolationism and xenophobia. What conservative Americans fail to remember is 95% of them had ancestors who came to this country from a different country. IMHO neither of these will not end well.
1
One has to wonder whether regular everyday citizens with their fears and biases have the capacity to make life altering, momentous decisions in a direct democracy vote. Today people may feel one way. A year form now they may feel a different way and vote in a different way but then it's too late.
Representative democracy decisions may be more suited to make extremely important decisions like this, where you have hopefully better informed and wiser representatives making the choices.
In this case, Parliament should have made the choice not direct vote.
In the U.S. Congress should make the important decisions not direct vote.
Representative democracy decisions may be more suited to make extremely important decisions like this, where you have hopefully better informed and wiser representatives making the choices.
In this case, Parliament should have made the choice not direct vote.
In the U.S. Congress should make the important decisions not direct vote.
1
A very sad day I need and a misguided choice. Like us, Britain can now claim expertise in cutting off its nose to spite its face.
1
Quite the season for the underdog: Leicester City Football Club; Danny Willet at the Masters Golf; Dustin Johnson at the US Open; LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers, dare I say Donald Trump?; and now the Leaves. Notable is that 3 of 5 are English. I'm guessing that the faux oligarchies aka Venezuela, Brazil, Putin, Panama Banksters, the Remains of the Former Day, a dysfunctional US Congress sense the power of the democratising Internet. Hilary is not liking this.
1
Let's offer GB statehood.
2
Let's NOT offer GB statehood.
This is just like the Tea Party/Trump faction here. You're getting screwed by the elites, so the answer is to set your house on fire. Good thinking. The problem isn't the elites, it's the idiots. And there's a bunch of 'em.
Great Britain is going to wind up becoming like Spain and Italy, not Germany and the Nordic states. Much like the cat that insists it wants to go out during the snowstorm, the nationalists and the xenophobes have gotten their way in the UK. I suspect in a year or two we'll be hearing the furious scratching at the door to be let back in.
Great Britain is going to wind up becoming like Spain and Italy, not Germany and the Nordic states. Much like the cat that insists it wants to go out during the snowstorm, the nationalists and the xenophobes have gotten their way in the UK. I suspect in a year or two we'll be hearing the furious scratching at the door to be let back in.
The reporting of this, along with many of the comments, seem hyperbolic. The economics of leaving have been described as "catastrophic," "crisis," "earthshaking," while on the cultural side the pro-Brex voters are "xenophobic" and "uneducated."
The Brits will take it slow and easy as always, and they will cooperate with EU nations when they believe it's reasonable to do so (as they always have and probably more often than not). But they don't have to be subjected to the will of other countries (and bankers). This isn't a country of obstreperous trouble makers.
Regarding xenophobia--wanting to leave is not anti-immigrant across the board; it's about numbers. England is roughly the size of Mississippi or Louisiana, so it makes sense to me that they are concerned about jobs, and about maintaining a population size that their socialized infrastructure (schools, health care) can handle. Do they worry about terrorists crossing their borders freely? Of course. That isn't xenophobic either.
European nations have little in common with American states. They are COUNTRIES centuries old, each with a unique culture. Tradition by its nature includes change and adaptation, but what's been and what's developing--each must be informed by the other, not eradicated by it.
Wanting to preserve one's culture isn't necessarily racist or "nostalgic." Cultures have been preserved, thank heaven, while over a long period gradually evolving and changing. That's called civilization.
The Brits will take it slow and easy as always, and they will cooperate with EU nations when they believe it's reasonable to do so (as they always have and probably more often than not). But they don't have to be subjected to the will of other countries (and bankers). This isn't a country of obstreperous trouble makers.
Regarding xenophobia--wanting to leave is not anti-immigrant across the board; it's about numbers. England is roughly the size of Mississippi or Louisiana, so it makes sense to me that they are concerned about jobs, and about maintaining a population size that their socialized infrastructure (schools, health care) can handle. Do they worry about terrorists crossing their borders freely? Of course. That isn't xenophobic either.
European nations have little in common with American states. They are COUNTRIES centuries old, each with a unique culture. Tradition by its nature includes change and adaptation, but what's been and what's developing--each must be informed by the other, not eradicated by it.
Wanting to preserve one's culture isn't necessarily racist or "nostalgic." Cultures have been preserved, thank heaven, while over a long period gradually evolving and changing. That's called civilization.
7
Question for Boris: Do you need a “part-Kenyan” heritage to have an “ancestral dislike of the British empire"? I think not. In fact, the minions are growing by the millions. . .
1
Every step forward creates a backlash from the folks left behind. And their trampled feelings are critically important. Abusing them doesn't help. The EU was a huge step forward after the two world wars, just like the gains for US Blacks after slavery and Jim Crow, and women's rights, and gay rights, and there is always backlash. And then the extreme inequality and disruption we are experiencing from business, automation, globalization creates its own anger at the elites, with good reason. The modern world doesn't attend to the people left behind, either economically or emotionally.
2
Fully 75% of British voters either said no to the EU (52%) or didn't care enough to vote (23%). Only a small minority (25%) actually voted to continue with this failed experiment in cross-border socialism and soft borders. So to our leaders here in the USA: Are you listening?
6
Chris:
The 23% who did ot vote do not count either way.
In my boo, if you don;t vote, you lose your right to complain about the outcome.
You can't just presume that the 23% agreed with YOUR side.
And you should remember what happened in 2000 in the state of .... er ... Florida? Where they have no idea how to count, as I recall.
George W. Bush LOST the popular vote. He won the Presidency by a vote of 5 to 4. Thank Ralph Nader if you see him.
The 23% who did ot vote do not count either way.
In my boo, if you don;t vote, you lose your right to complain about the outcome.
You can't just presume that the 23% agreed with YOUR side.
And you should remember what happened in 2000 in the state of .... er ... Florida? Where they have no idea how to count, as I recall.
George W. Bush LOST the popular vote. He won the Presidency by a vote of 5 to 4. Thank Ralph Nader if you see him.
To correct my own math, the number of people voting to remain was actually closer to 35% of the total electorate, according to the latest tally, including those who did not vote. Still, a minority to be sure, and not really a close call.
Almost all the coverage pre and post-exit (election) has been about economics. I don't believe it is that at all.
I came to the US from India and I have a lot of (English) ex-pat friends. Whenever we got into a discussion about the British contributions to India (yes, they did and not just the railways but several institutions that continue to function), I used to point out that the one thing the Indians could not stand was being treated as second class citizens (or noncitizens) in their own country, bowing to a monarch thousands of miles away.
Well, the sun has set on the Empire and the English were finding themselves bowing to some bureaucrat in Brussels. This they cannot bring themselves to do. This even though the EU allowed the British monarchy to continue, had no objection to its succession plan and the average Briton was probably better off under the EU with its readily accessed vast market.
No, I don't believe the vote to secede from the EU was a result of East European immigrants overburdening the NHS. It is simply that nobody wants to be ruled by a colonial power, even one as benign as the EU. Certainly not a proud people who brought railways to the remotest parts of the earth!
I came to the US from India and I have a lot of (English) ex-pat friends. Whenever we got into a discussion about the British contributions to India (yes, they did and not just the railways but several institutions that continue to function), I used to point out that the one thing the Indians could not stand was being treated as second class citizens (or noncitizens) in their own country, bowing to a monarch thousands of miles away.
Well, the sun has set on the Empire and the English were finding themselves bowing to some bureaucrat in Brussels. This they cannot bring themselves to do. This even though the EU allowed the British monarchy to continue, had no objection to its succession plan and the average Briton was probably better off under the EU with its readily accessed vast market.
No, I don't believe the vote to secede from the EU was a result of East European immigrants overburdening the NHS. It is simply that nobody wants to be ruled by a colonial power, even one as benign as the EU. Certainly not a proud people who brought railways to the remotest parts of the earth!
7
The modern Delian League formed after WW II is starting to unravel. The Western powers have come under stress from the migrant crisis across the Mid East and Africa.
The West must be doing something right. It is the magnet for the desperate seeking a safer, better life. But the ongoing crisis has demonstrated how fragile European unity is.
Hoping we can weather the economic storm, and praying that further dissolution of Western unity will not be the outcome of the short sighted, populist decision in U.K.
May calm, rational minds prevail in this time of uncertainty.
The West must be doing something right. It is the magnet for the desperate seeking a safer, better life. But the ongoing crisis has demonstrated how fragile European unity is.
Hoping we can weather the economic storm, and praying that further dissolution of Western unity will not be the outcome of the short sighted, populist decision in U.K.
May calm, rational minds prevail in this time of uncertainty.
2
I KNOW! That's what horrifies me!
"I know. You know I know. I know you know I know. We know Henry knows, and he knows we know it! We are a knowledgeable family."
Meet the Plantagenets! "Lion in Winter" staged in 1968.
This family in reality really did want to kill one another at one time or another, but Goldman staged it for a Christmas special even Jimmy Savile might salivate over. Another hot year for Broadway. Injustice is productive like that.
"I know. You know I know. I know you know I know. We know Henry knows, and he knows we know it! We are a knowledgeable family."
Meet the Plantagenets! "Lion in Winter" staged in 1968.
This family in reality really did want to kill one another at one time or another, but Goldman staged it for a Christmas special even Jimmy Savile might salivate over. Another hot year for Broadway. Injustice is productive like that.
1
Congratulations to the UK and happy Independence Day! You've escaped the unaccountable laws, dicates and courts in Brussels. You took your country back and now it's our turn!
7
"They'll always be an England," the saying goes, but all the talk today makes it seem like that's all there'll be left with the way things are going. Scotland, Northern Ireland, and even London are talking about leaving the UK for the EU, or for the Republic of Ireland in Northern Ireland's case. The London Telegraph says Spain now wants to take full control over Gibraltar. What would be left? England, the Falkland Islands, the British Virgin Islands....
3
I don't agree with the result here but on the other hand, people need to undderstand that the motive force of the European Union project is an "ever closer union", as the preamble to the 1957 Treaty of Rome states. The idea from the beginning was an incremental move to a full federation, a United States of Europe. This is an inexorable logic flowing from the liberal economic principles on the which the Treaties have been based deriving from Adam Smith, Locke, etc. Economically the law of comparative advantage is unanwerable, but culture and people run up against it sometimes, and that is what happened here. England will continue but will be poorer and when those who voted see that some goods they counted on as cheap will come rather dearer, they will change their tune. But it will be too late, for a long, long time. And this is so regardless of what limited (bilateral) trade deal Britain will negotiate wih the EU.
It's easy to call people racist when they just want to have good jobs and security for themselves and for their family and friends. When you bring in millions of migrants and people start facing increased crime, increased unemployment it's hard to still want more and more people brought in. It's easy for the people who aren't facing this themselves to call these people racist and worse. Do you live in these neighborhoods? Do you face the social problems? Have your wages essentially remained flat for the last 20 years. Put yourself in their place. BREXIT was entirely justified. This country is heading the same way. Stop being elitist and show some empathy for the working and middle class who are hurting and who have legitimate grievances.
8
The common Brit has spoken against the financial market and the babbling elite. No one was paying attention to what they had to say until now !
5
Identifying a problem is not the same as identifying a solution.
Fear about immigration and European control over British sovereignty may well have been justified in the minds of many (though it appears those who voted for Brexit are the least likely to be affected by either). But is this the solution?
The result of isolationism in a global world is, shockingly, isolation. That's fine if you have enormous wealth and massive amounts of natural and human resources - not so much if you're a small island that needs goods from other nations for basic sustainability.
Fear about immigration and European control over British sovereignty may well have been justified in the minds of many (though it appears those who voted for Brexit are the least likely to be affected by either). But is this the solution?
The result of isolationism in a global world is, shockingly, isolation. That's fine if you have enormous wealth and massive amounts of natural and human resources - not so much if you're a small island that needs goods from other nations for basic sustainability.
1
Time for more predictions/"bets"---
Next out- Greece.
But not just out of EU, also out of Euro. Followed rapidly by the whole of Mediterranean. Germany has to get into a little Reformation mindset, lose its purityranical obsession with debtor sins.
Now I would love to predict that Dem heads will run the better horse in the race...but the fact is Dem leadership is fully dependent on the dole from the new international corporate nobility.
I would love to say that spinmeisters here will understand the Great and Powerful OZ's fire and thunder media machine is no longer working. People, in enough #s, believe their own lyin eyes first.
I do predict there will be no UK crash, or vice versa, because EU has more export to UK, so rules will be bent, ignored and broken so biz uninterrupted.
Finally, because she can not get away from her ties to the "liberal" international nobility, Hill 47%. Come the day...
Next out- Greece.
But not just out of EU, also out of Euro. Followed rapidly by the whole of Mediterranean. Germany has to get into a little Reformation mindset, lose its purityranical obsession with debtor sins.
Now I would love to predict that Dem heads will run the better horse in the race...but the fact is Dem leadership is fully dependent on the dole from the new international corporate nobility.
I would love to say that spinmeisters here will understand the Great and Powerful OZ's fire and thunder media machine is no longer working. People, in enough #s, believe their own lyin eyes first.
I do predict there will be no UK crash, or vice versa, because EU has more export to UK, so rules will be bent, ignored and broken so biz uninterrupted.
Finally, because she can not get away from her ties to the "liberal" international nobility, Hill 47%. Come the day...
2
One of the news sites talked about this as one of the biggest experiments / tests(?) of democracy. If Britain had remained it would have been touted as a success. Now that it reflects a majority but of older and whiter people - is it still a standard bearer of a democratic decision?
On the other hand over a million lives were lost during the American civil war 150 years ago preserving the union when the overwhelming public opinion then was to split the country!
Different stakes but similar intentions for unity. But a leader then held his country together and this leader put it for a decision out of his hands. Not that I call Cameron a weak leader but look at how the world looks at Lincoln today. We don't always associate leadership with outcomes - but this is one prime helluva case study!
I believe anything that we do with conviction usually works out - really hope and wish this works out for everyone in Britain. I am sure it's a very trying time. exchanged some emails with colleagues in London and seems like a big emotional sense of loss. Take care guys.
On the other hand over a million lives were lost during the American civil war 150 years ago preserving the union when the overwhelming public opinion then was to split the country!
Different stakes but similar intentions for unity. But a leader then held his country together and this leader put it for a decision out of his hands. Not that I call Cameron a weak leader but look at how the world looks at Lincoln today. We don't always associate leadership with outcomes - but this is one prime helluva case study!
I believe anything that we do with conviction usually works out - really hope and wish this works out for everyone in Britain. I am sure it's a very trying time. exchanged some emails with colleagues in London and seems like a big emotional sense of loss. Take care guys.
Pension funds, IRA funds, people's money fund holdings, stocks, money market funds, and overall sentiment will be dead in the water for a while.
There is power in numbers and it is true that everyone is "stronger when together" so we will all now have to weather some ripple effects of UK actions.
Let's hope our US consumer driven economy is not stunted too long.
I hope enough "market analysts" and other talking heads on TV say it is now a buying opportunity and the markets turn around within a week and not go through extended doom and gloom viewpoints from too many conservatives and other self serving types....
There is power in numbers and it is true that everyone is "stronger when together" so we will all now have to weather some ripple effects of UK actions.
Let's hope our US consumer driven economy is not stunted too long.
I hope enough "market analysts" and other talking heads on TV say it is now a buying opportunity and the markets turn around within a week and not go through extended doom and gloom viewpoints from too many conservatives and other self serving types....
Finally, a country has put a reality check on this neo-liberal insanity.
5
If you don't appreciate the parallel to the populous-anger movement in the U.S. that has brought us Trump (and also Bernie Sanders), and how "shocked" the punditry has been at their respective campaings' success, then (and unless the anti-Trump voters step up in droves) we in the U.S. may experience a similar shock on November 8. The signals we have been accomstomed to weighing in order to predict these outcomes no longer apply.
1
We here the breakdown for and against between young and old, Scotland/Wales/N.Ireland and England, male and female. What was the breakdown between educated and uneducated voters?
If you listen carefully you'll hear loud, boisterous cheering coming from Moscow. Putin will be celebrating as this helps open the way for Russian expansion west into Eastern Europe.
1
President Obama is getting ready to speak about Brexit to the American people from Stanford University. This is another mark against his legacy as the British people turned a deaf ear to his pleas to remain in the EU. He should be worrying about us and not telling the British people how to govern their country. He has enough problems here to worry about (immigration reform, a struggling economy, etc.) and should not intere where he is not wanted. He is just starting to speak and I wonder what he will say. Stay tuned.
3
Who would have ever thought the day would come when the English, of all people, came to see North Korea as an economic model worthy of emulation?
It's like a losing a war. That's exactly how it feels.
The vote yesterday has the sun finally setting on the British Empire. The empire has crumbled for years, but this is the final act. One has to wonder how long the Commonwealth of Nations will be around? Only thing keeping that together is Queen Elizabeth II.
When Scotland and Northern Ireland go their separate ways, all that will be left will be England and Wales. Where it all began in the 1500s. That is, a small state battling among itself between what is left of the Saxons and the Normans.
Amazing going from a world economic, and sea, power to nothing is less than 80 years. That is the epitaph here.
When Scotland and Northern Ireland go their separate ways, all that will be left will be England and Wales. Where it all began in the 1500s. That is, a small state battling among itself between what is left of the Saxons and the Normans.
Amazing going from a world economic, and sea, power to nothing is less than 80 years. That is the epitaph here.
1
Why? For some voters xenopphobia, as virulent there as it is on the other side of the channel. For others, resentment of German dominance of the Union. And perhaps also end of the Cold War which was, in large part, the political raison d'etre for the Union.
These factors or their logical sum.
These factors or their logical sum.
EU is a utopian idea, but it does not seem to be working. The EU establishment is hardly what one would call democratic. I think the British were smart to take note of that. In fact, I would have expected this divorce much earlier. The big question now is what the future holds for the EU. (As regards Britain, Britain was doing well - actually better - before it joined the EU and they will get back on track after a brief period of uncertainty.)
1
And to think how much Greece has endured just to stay in the EU.
2
If trump agrees - then it can't be a good thing. The leader of the UK Independence party and that organization itself seems to morror the tea party here - short sighted - arrogant and very very good at being wrong. The will now reap what they have sown.
2
The formation of the EU was nothing more than a liberal pipe-dream of a United States of Europe. Unfortunately, Europe never was united at any point throughout history. In fact, it was at war more often than at peace. I look at a map of the EU and I could almost superimpose a map of German conquests circa 1942.
The EU has done nothing more than bring yet another level of onerous government control and taxation upon the little guy. The only people it may have been beneficial to are the tourists who didn't have to worry about national border crossings or changing their pounds to francs to marks, to krona.
The EU has done nothing more than bring yet another level of onerous government control and taxation upon the little guy. The only people it may have been beneficial to are the tourists who didn't have to worry about national border crossings or changing their pounds to francs to marks, to krona.
"Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, Fall like a thunderbolt..."
Sun Tzu
Sun Tzu
1
Interesting to read the comments from both sides of this vote. Although time will tell on whether this was a smart move for the UK, I do see Scotland and N. Ireland (maybe Wales), voting to part from England. Frankly, I wouldn't blame them. I fear that this fear-mongering worldwide does tremendous damage to all of us...racism, hatred, xenophobia, etc. Tell me, how does this benefit any of us?
1
The parasitic elite have finally killed their hosts. When people have little or nothing to lose they will vote for their own survival. Trump is that much closer to the white house after Brexit!
6
Exactly. The elites have nobody to blame but themselves.
Congratulations Great Britain on regaining your sovereignty!
We in the USA are with you, despite our many children president. We'll get Trump elected in a few months and regain our sovereignty as well!
It's a trend
We in the USA are with you, despite our many children president. We'll get Trump elected in a few months and regain our sovereignty as well!
It's a trend
1
Could someone please explain why this Brexit decision was made by referendum rather than by a vote among elected politicians? Thank you.
1
Because that's what Cameron promised 3 years ago.
I don't have the political specifics you seek but in general this has happened in this way because the 1%ers (the people who will profit by this plebiscite) who wanted it, used the press which some of them own to keep low information voters misinformed, leading them as a horse to water to "understand" that they were being treated unfairly and should seek to get out of the agreement their politicians made on their behalf.
Europe does not have a big war for a long time as they were fighting with each other before. They forgot the history. They forgot the lesson of 1940-45. Racists and bigots are winning all over the world. I hope the pendulum will swing to other side sooner than we think.
2
Why so sad? You saw the looks on the exiters' faces, and they're in the majority. Oh, that's right, democracy is so sad when you lose, like how the Sanders supporters currently feel, particularly when mocked by all the smug Clinton supporters. Well saddys, y'all can go pound gold, especially those 'muricans who weep for the EU. Go wipe your tears cause the paradigm shift in the political economy is in motion and you will really be crying a few elections from now.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the tears of smug stragglers and establishmentarians."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the tears of smug stragglers and establishmentarians."
3
I am an Anglophile.
It is good that they have chosen to leave. It is the same as Article 370 of the Indian Constitution that allows Kashmir significant space to maintain its identity within the Indian set up. If the Kashmiris do not want development that outside money and technology, and the people of other states can bring then that should be up to them. Same with the Brits.
I also think that our allows the French and Germans to build a non-Anglo Saxon model of governance without the nuisance of the British. May be the Jacques Delors project can now seriously resume. The development of ever closer union can proceed in earnest. Under their "we are sorry to see them go" the French certainly are muttering "good riddance". It will permit Germans to dominate the terms the union without having to look over their shoulders at what the Brits may agree to.
I think the Brits are the losers since they now will have no control over the rules the Franco-German model will develop. Now they just have one big friend, the US.
It is good that they have chosen to leave. It is the same as Article 370 of the Indian Constitution that allows Kashmir significant space to maintain its identity within the Indian set up. If the Kashmiris do not want development that outside money and technology, and the people of other states can bring then that should be up to them. Same with the Brits.
I also think that our allows the French and Germans to build a non-Anglo Saxon model of governance without the nuisance of the British. May be the Jacques Delors project can now seriously resume. The development of ever closer union can proceed in earnest. Under their "we are sorry to see them go" the French certainly are muttering "good riddance". It will permit Germans to dominate the terms the union without having to look over their shoulders at what the Brits may agree to.
I think the Brits are the losers since they now will have no control over the rules the Franco-German model will develop. Now they just have one big friend, the US.
Perhaps, but they just moved farther down the speed dial of that big friend.
1
The viewpoint that anyone who wants to control their borders from uncontrolled immigration is 'xenophobic' or a 'nationalist' reeks of the PC atmosphere that Donald Trump rails about. What we have witnessed in Great Britain over the past week perhaps foreshadows what we will see here in November.
4
Background: Listen to Pat Condell's analysis on youtube, posting date 5/16/16, title: Moment of Truth.
This is Brownback's Kansas on a larger scale. England will go back to being a jerkwater country while its rich engorge themselves on EU spoils.
1
Wish Obama would step down. A total failure as a president and Hillary would be Obama one hundred times over. Why does Hillary remind me of Angela Merkel who has allowed thousands of Muslims to overrun Germany? Hillary has already said she will allow thousands more Muslims plus thousands of illegals to enter our country if, by some travesty, she becomes president. Mr. Trump has been on the right side of almost everything. Vote Trump! Vote independence for the United States and congratulations England.
6
Because Angela Merkel understands the power of declining population growth and the need for WORKERS to work to make their economy run. The answer - immigration because ethnic Germans aren't even replacing their own a this point. Happening all over Europe and would be happening here in the US without our immigration. Be very careful what you wish for. You can't have a powerful economy and JOBS without people to work them. Anglo-Saxon progeny is slowly but surely drying up. The browning of the world is happening and you can't really stop it no matter how hard you try. Or - maybe you could? Just plan on having at least 5 kids and encourage all your other friends to do the same. And than make that a national trend. But only white people ok? (tongue-in-cheek)
Obama a total failure? Imagine if he had been a success. Unemployment would be at -5% and GDP 20%. I guess GW Bush was a total success then.
1
I am a UK citizen who voted to remain part of the UK. My extended family all voted 'remain' (with one exception). My entire workplace voted 'remain'. I am horrified by the result, disgusted by Cameron and worried about the future. I feel sorry for the next generation and am furious with the older generation who voted us 'out'. It was very much a generational opinion - millions of retired people who don't need to work or make a living in this new environment. Cheers folks.
7
Do any of you know why we celebrate the fourth of July? Independence from a central GOV-MENT body, no one knows what England needs more then the people living there, Big GOV-MENT is not the answer to problems
2
No, actually, that's not it at all. It was independence from a foreign monarchy. Something altogether quite different. You're entitled to your own opinion, stacy, but not your own unilateral rewriting of history.
This should be a major wake up call for the U.S. government! The anger fire has been stoked and is growing rapidly.
4
Here's a novel thought: when you're elected to a position, lead. If you want to have referendum votes, have them on things such as whether the nation should adopt baseball or cricket as the national sport. Don't have referendum votes on crucial economic issues that can plunge the world into the financial abyss. Lead on the crucial issues. If the people want to tear down their economy, let them do it the old fashioned way: create a party, get on the ballot, gain control of the legislature, and pass laws to get what you want.
3
I have been listening to the lovely song "Rule Britannia" and humming the tune and I am sure many of the Britans are singing it right now. They have much to celebrate and I only wish I was in England to join in the celebrations. They deserve an England for their people and not one dictated to them by the EU.
I am very happy for the citizens of England and this wonderful outcome did not occur a moment too soon. Return England to their people and not to the foreigners who have taken over their country and refuse to assimilate and become part of the British way of life. Congratulations Britain for a job well done.
I am very happy for the citizens of England and this wonderful outcome did not occur a moment too soon. Return England to their people and not to the foreigners who have taken over their country and refuse to assimilate and become part of the British way of life. Congratulations Britain for a job well done.
3
My gut says this can be bad for all concerned. Very, very bad.
1
I've long marveled that blue collar Americans so frequently vote Republican, against their own economic interests. Apparently the English do, too. The people to be most hurt, economically, by the Brexit voted heavily for it. Illogical, unless economic interest is trumped by xenophobic fears, racism, and fervent, misguided patriotism.
2
Left wing liberal delusional ramblings...
From Great Britain to little england in one fell swoop!
2
This is the kind of matter we can't say anything about. It's up to the British to decide about their future. I hope they've made the right decision!
1
I was thinking about how to fix this. Britain COULD hold another referendum to reverse course (they're a democracy, they can do what they want). BUT, it would require a MASSIVE, OVERWHELMING action on the part of the people who don't want to leave the E.U.
How likely is this? Not much, right? So... why?
The problem with democracy and resisting outrageous, disruptive action like Brexit is that something this is understood by many people as being so unlikely, they tell themselves it can't possibly happen. So, whereas the disrupters show up to the polls en masse, the opposition figures that someone else will take care of it, surely. The Brexiters were hoping for a poor turnout of cool-headed people, and that's what they got.
The U.S. will face this same thing in November. Already, many Republicans and independents are vocally expressing their disgust at the prospect of a Trump presidency. Their solution, however? They won't vote. They'll sit it out. In other words, they will make no effort at all to prevent a Trump victory. They will rely on Clinton supporters to do the "dirty work", and blindly hope that it's enough. This is how democracy fails, when people succumb to the call that politics is so nasty, presented to us 24-hours a day in the media, that the best thing to do is simply not participate.
Clever politicians have certainly figured this out by now, and how to exploit it. In Britain, the loudmouthed short-sighted xenophobes got exactly what they wanted.
How likely is this? Not much, right? So... why?
The problem with democracy and resisting outrageous, disruptive action like Brexit is that something this is understood by many people as being so unlikely, they tell themselves it can't possibly happen. So, whereas the disrupters show up to the polls en masse, the opposition figures that someone else will take care of it, surely. The Brexiters were hoping for a poor turnout of cool-headed people, and that's what they got.
The U.S. will face this same thing in November. Already, many Republicans and independents are vocally expressing their disgust at the prospect of a Trump presidency. Their solution, however? They won't vote. They'll sit it out. In other words, they will make no effort at all to prevent a Trump victory. They will rely on Clinton supporters to do the "dirty work", and blindly hope that it's enough. This is how democracy fails, when people succumb to the call that politics is so nasty, presented to us 24-hours a day in the media, that the best thing to do is simply not participate.
Clever politicians have certainly figured this out by now, and how to exploit it. In Britain, the loudmouthed short-sighted xenophobes got exactly what they wanted.
1
Brexit is not so much a disaster for Britain as it is for the EU, which will eventually cease to be what it is today when other countries such as Holland and France are tempted to go the way Britain did.
Under the EU, Britain had all the baggage that poor countries in the union brought to the table, and had to endure influx of EU nationals from countries like Poland who depressed wages and took jobs away from the Britons. Now, Britain can cherry-pick the nations it wants to trade and deal with, and gain control over its sovereignty.
Cameron staked his future on a Remain vote and that was stupid. Looks like the New York City born Boris Johnson will be the next PM to deal with NYC born and bred president Trump.
Much ado about nothing. Nothing to see, people. Stay calm and keep moving.
Under the EU, Britain had all the baggage that poor countries in the union brought to the table, and had to endure influx of EU nationals from countries like Poland who depressed wages and took jobs away from the Britons. Now, Britain can cherry-pick the nations it wants to trade and deal with, and gain control over its sovereignty.
Cameron staked his future on a Remain vote and that was stupid. Looks like the New York City born Boris Johnson will be the next PM to deal with NYC born and bred president Trump.
Much ado about nothing. Nothing to see, people. Stay calm and keep moving.
4
A bad day for globalism....which makes this a great day.
7
Seems like our British friends on the other side of the pond have lost their bloody minds, and their future.
1
There has to be a better way to deal with immigration than this. If nothing else, this shows that the unimpeded movement of people from poorer to richer areas is just too destabilizing.
2
Good for you Britain!! I'm happy for you today and optimistic about your future.
You have voted for Freedom and Independence. I had thought Britain would fade into oblivion with the rest of the West but it may live on yet. Your Progressive children may have their feathers ruffled for a little while but your grandchildren and great grandchildren will thank you for preserving Britannia!
You have voted for Freedom and Independence. I had thought Britain would fade into oblivion with the rest of the West but it may live on yet. Your Progressive children may have their feathers ruffled for a little while but your grandchildren and great grandchildren will thank you for preserving Britannia!
3
Seems like the headline should have read something like: "Brits vote to 'Buy Stairway to Heaven'!!" ...
Maybe it's time for the US to break up. As a Northern, I'm sick and tired of having to support the Evangelical Welfare Empire that is the South.
5
This is our country. If u feel so strongly about some of our citizens the exit door to Canada is only hours away.
It's the middle class, stupid.
3
Certainly do not think all Brits are stupid, but the majority obviously are.
1
From bad to worst. A tragedy not even Shakespeare could have written. Little England has cut off its nose to spite its face. Shrinking in size and influence, a small country that is just another reactionary state, xenophobic and schizophrenic, sinking into the abyss. I am in tears.
2
Leaving the EU based on bigotry and fear. In this country we have trump running based on bigotry and fear. What is happening to people. Facts no longer matter.
2
David Cameron obviously isn't the politician he's said to be. One thing that all good politicians do is count the votes, which he should have done before agreeing to the in-out referendum. He should have seen that the opportunists, like his old posh school chum Boris Johnson, would seize on this for their own gain. And, now David Cameron may well be vilified by history for setting off a chain reaction that began, simply, as his way of appeasing an internal party squabble. Not very smart, I'll warrant.
4
Absolutely correct analysis. This is the worst foreign policy decision by a British PM since the 1930s.
1
"Economists had predicted that a vote to leave the bloc could do substantial damage to the British economy. "
--------------------
And watch the British farmer go back to concerns only for scale of production as imported food becomes very pricey.
The European support for conservation of land for preservation of wildlife was all that kept any hedgerows standing across England in recent years.
What a bitter pill for the environmental community.
--------------------
And watch the British farmer go back to concerns only for scale of production as imported food becomes very pricey.
The European support for conservation of land for preservation of wildlife was all that kept any hedgerows standing across England in recent years.
What a bitter pill for the environmental community.
I'm not on Twitter - has Trump already tweeted "Just by being in Scotland I'm making the world great again! Thank you for your all your congratulations on my Brexit achievements"
2
A great way to keep people from immigrating to your country is to diminish economic opportunities and make it a less desirable place to live. Mission accomplished.
3
Dump the tea into the harbor!!! Worked for us Americans.
Hats off to the British democracy. Say what you will about the decision, the will of the people truly counts in the UK. The citizens are the final arbiter; not corporations or billionaires (who presumably have a lot to lose in the divorce). Contrast that with the US where despite 90 percent of the population wanting gun control after countless deaths, there is absolutely no action whatsoever. It is clear where the real democracy lies.
4
This is a continuation that the elites in bureaucracy are out of touch with the people. We will see the ripples of it in the US and throughout the free world. As to EU unity, it was bound to fail unless they started to speak one language, had one culture and had shared values. Where socialism and its ilk have mostly succeeded is in places where that happens such as Denmark or Sweden.
2
I've always seen the EU as one of the greatest human political achievements. Member nations, after centuries of war, finally found a way out of their past. The late 80s and early 90s was a thrilling time in Europe: the Berlin Wall came down, Ireland had started on a road to peace, and the treaty of Maastricht promised so much.
And yet, as is so common, the visionaries were replaced by officials whose decisions undermined the EU's best interests. These include austerity, an overzealous poorly-considered rush to globalize, and an immigration policy that was too much, too fast, and which labeled anyone who questioned it as a racist xenophobe. These very serious problems and others paved the way for the Brexit, but as usual, none of the policy elites paid attention. And now they're shocked.
We have the same problem in the US. We have a gig economy where medical debt crushes the sick. Student loan debt is over a trillion dollars, yet many graduates can't find the shiny future they were promised, corporations exploit immigrants with help from leaders on both sides of the aisle. Etc. And the Republican Party re-exploits the immigration situation by blaming the problem on the immigrants.
Rather than looking at failed policies pushed by both parties, people howl that Trump is the next Hitler and refuse to acknowledge the real roots of our problems. And the cycle continues. It seems that meaningful change requires a bitter pill. Maybe the Brexit will kick some sense into the EU.
And yet, as is so common, the visionaries were replaced by officials whose decisions undermined the EU's best interests. These include austerity, an overzealous poorly-considered rush to globalize, and an immigration policy that was too much, too fast, and which labeled anyone who questioned it as a racist xenophobe. These very serious problems and others paved the way for the Brexit, but as usual, none of the policy elites paid attention. And now they're shocked.
We have the same problem in the US. We have a gig economy where medical debt crushes the sick. Student loan debt is over a trillion dollars, yet many graduates can't find the shiny future they were promised, corporations exploit immigrants with help from leaders on both sides of the aisle. Etc. And the Republican Party re-exploits the immigration situation by blaming the problem on the immigrants.
Rather than looking at failed policies pushed by both parties, people howl that Trump is the next Hitler and refuse to acknowledge the real roots of our problems. And the cycle continues. It seems that meaningful change requires a bitter pill. Maybe the Brexit will kick some sense into the EU.
4
This is what happens when smug elites leave the middle class behind.
12
Bottom line this Brexit was all about immigration. Pay attention, coming soon to a country near you. Cheers!
6
Act in haste, repent in leisure.
1
What most folks ignore is that Britain will be better off financially and have more latitude on the world stage now that it has cast off the chains of Brussels. Like Switzerland Britain will be able to trade with all of its current partners and will have more resources to do so.
The hysteria from the Left is not unlike the juvenile antics that brought our government to a standstill just two days ago. Shouting the "the sky is falling, and various forms of name calling on the part of Progressives world wide seems to be what passes for governance in these sad times.
The hysteria from the Left is not unlike the juvenile antics that brought our government to a standstill just two days ago. Shouting the "the sky is falling, and various forms of name calling on the part of Progressives world wide seems to be what passes for governance in these sad times.
3
Seventy years on since the end of WWII most forget or never learned that the two largest and catastrophic conflagrations in history emanated from the nationalism of the jigsaw puzzle of nation states in Europe stoked by antagonistic alliances in the case of WWI and economics (post WWI) in the case of WWII.
Churchill having lived through both, understood this when in 1948 he argued forcefully for European integration, a permanent cement to hold the puzzle together via mutual interest and prevent even more disastrous conflagrations.
Those who have voted to "leave" (and those now screaming for a similar outcome for their countries) did so based on micro economics and its affect on their "situation." They have no understanding or appreciation for their much larger interest and need: continued integration to further extend the now unprecedented 70 years of uninterrupted peace.
Churchill having lived through both, understood this when in 1948 he argued forcefully for European integration, a permanent cement to hold the puzzle together via mutual interest and prevent even more disastrous conflagrations.
Those who have voted to "leave" (and those now screaming for a similar outcome for their countries) did so based on micro economics and its affect on their "situation." They have no understanding or appreciation for their much larger interest and need: continued integration to further extend the now unprecedented 70 years of uninterrupted peace.
3
I am not a nihilist. I like some order and stability. There is something about this that felt something like,"I'm not happy with my financial situation. I'm gonna go to Vegas and put everything I have on Odd on the roulette table. That should do it!". To the nihilist from San Francisco who called the EU a "neo liberal hegemony controlled by financial cartels" I felt that language resembled that of Hitler or Lenin. A sad day for the world. A stable Europe was so long in the making.
1
At what point does the Left, what with the rise of Trump & now Brexit, take a good long look in the mirror to spot the flaw so obvious to everyone else? Based on the tone of a majority of these comments, not yet.
4
The left is not capable of that. Most of the ideas adopted by the left are formulated in an ivory tower where there is no price for being wrong. You don't lose your business, home, etc.
1
Great Britain is no longer Great and will no longer be United. The consequences will be dire in terms of the global economy and international social order. A very critical lesson to be learned by the US when amygdala driven pitchfork movements seize control.
It seems that 70 years into the Nuclear Age there's still people who don't believe that a united humanity is inevitable or even desirable.
It's true and it's sad that people are being left behind by a changing world, but they should consider the world that their kids need to be ready for, because it's going to be even weirder than this.
I for one think that for all the problems the E.U. has faced, it's been rather better than, say, centuries of endless war. The good old days.
It's true and it's sad that people are being left behind by a changing world, but they should consider the world that their kids need to be ready for, because it's going to be even weirder than this.
I for one think that for all the problems the E.U. has faced, it's been rather better than, say, centuries of endless war. The good old days.
1
It should really have required a 2/3 vote, not a simple majority because the latter leaves nearly half the nation miserable with the result, which is not good for civil rest. It also goes to show what happens when emotion wins out over reason and this should be very worrisome for us here in the US.
6
I feel the same way about our presidential elections, one party gets 51% of the vote and then they govern as if they were swept into office by a landslide
If a two-thirds rule had been in effect and the vote had the same 52% Leave vs. 48% Remain split, you'd still be left with half the nation miserable with the result. Only this time it wouldn't be the 48% group who'd be angry, it would be the even larger 52% group.
1
The European framework has not been well-designed. Despite the goodness of the people, it should have set entry criteria not on "every European country is welcome" idea but taken into consideration economic entry rules also, since it was supposed to be a European Economic Community.
The currency system and the stresses it can be bring is another example of less than in-depth thinking. In this regard Britain was lucky not to have joined the monetary union as exiting would have been virtually impossible.
The currency system and the stresses it can be bring is another example of less than in-depth thinking. In this regard Britain was lucky not to have joined the monetary union as exiting would have been virtually impossible.
I am amused by those Americans who decry the Brexit vote.
If EU is so wonderful, why don't we join up?
Yes, we are not part of Continental Europe - but neither is Britain.
If EU is so wonderful, why don't we join up?
Yes, we are not part of Continental Europe - but neither is Britain.
11
Well said that man, oh, and i voted to remain by the way.
1
Stunned by this result, I could not help thinking how this referendum was marked a return to 'direct democracy' as practiced by the ancient Athenians (and as feared by America's Founders). Let's hope this works out for England; but, if it does not, it may well prove (as Thucydides argued) that nations come quick to grief when the biggest issues of international policy ride on the decisions of the Crowd. Such issues are far too complicated for the emotional jingoism that drives popular referendums. They are better debated, calmly and fully, by reasoned minds; rather than by those who bristle at the notion of expertise, convinced --as so many in the USA are -- that "my ignorance is as good as your knowledge". Good luck Britannia!
4
Congratulate the British on this bold step. Wish that the aspirations of the "Leave" camp are fulfilled by the new set of leaders; and that a fresh "establishment" does not fall into the same patterns that led the majority to be distrustful of them in the first place.
2
Three comments:
"BRITAIN STUNS WORLD WITH VOTE TO LEAVE E.U.;"
1) Most of the people in Africa, Asia and South America (the majority of "the world") could care less if Britain leaves or stays...other than as a topic of water cooler discussions because it doesn't affect most people's lives in any perceivable way...unless we see a worldwide market collapse, which while possible probably won't happen. This NY Times headline is useless hyperbole.
2) As we become more vulnerable to attacks by jihadists, including "lone wolves" like the Orlando shooter, or small cells, each of the primary target countries (Britain, France and the US) is saying more and more that "we'll go it alone." The jihadists just need Donald Trump in the White House and Le Pen to win in France to seal the deal.
3) Russia and China are also ecstatic of the Brexit for obvious reasons. Anything that weakens Europe strengthens our enemies.
"BRITAIN STUNS WORLD WITH VOTE TO LEAVE E.U.;"
1) Most of the people in Africa, Asia and South America (the majority of "the world") could care less if Britain leaves or stays...other than as a topic of water cooler discussions because it doesn't affect most people's lives in any perceivable way...unless we see a worldwide market collapse, which while possible probably won't happen. This NY Times headline is useless hyperbole.
2) As we become more vulnerable to attacks by jihadists, including "lone wolves" like the Orlando shooter, or small cells, each of the primary target countries (Britain, France and the US) is saying more and more that "we'll go it alone." The jihadists just need Donald Trump in the White House and Le Pen to win in France to seal the deal.
3) Russia and China are also ecstatic of the Brexit for obvious reasons. Anything that weakens Europe strengthens our enemies.
1
The Brits have decided to make the UK "Great Again" and rid themselves of the inane meddling in their daily affairs by obscure bureaucrats in Brussels. Folks here in the USA can do the same thing to free themselves from a tone deaf, out of touch government in Washington D.C..
I am hopeful for the future of America now.
I am hopeful for the future of America now.
6
Living in London in an area that voted nearly 76% Remain I can tell you on the streets people are glum. Even now many who voted Leave seem to be taken aback. You can be on a ferry in the Channel and see both France and England. We are both British and European and despite this result we always will be.
2
It sorrows me that the murder of Jo Cox was dealt with in two sentences in this article. In this EU Referendum I've seen the darkest political campaigning of my lifetime, and I hope to God I never see its like again. I assumed the most chilling point had been reached with the publication of the UKIP poster that echoed the demonisation of Jewish men and women during Nazi Germany. I was wrong. Then came Jo's assassination, bereaving her husband, her two small children, the constituency she served and had grown up in, and a world that sorely needed her light.
I take issue with the reference in the article that Cameron 'felt pushed' to call for a referendum; the decision was actually taken to galvanise support for himself within his party and he has today been hoisted by the petard of his own ambition. And while the men have been half-crazed with the prospect of power (Cameron, Farage, Johnson), it is a woman - and all of the feminine values that she embodied - who has paid the ultimate price of this bleak moment in history. In the many pages of commentary that will follow in the coming weeks, months, years on the subject of the EU, may Jo's sacrifice not be forgotten.
I take issue with the reference in the article that Cameron 'felt pushed' to call for a referendum; the decision was actually taken to galvanise support for himself within his party and he has today been hoisted by the petard of his own ambition. And while the men have been half-crazed with the prospect of power (Cameron, Farage, Johnson), it is a woman - and all of the feminine values that she embodied - who has paid the ultimate price of this bleak moment in history. In the many pages of commentary that will follow in the coming weeks, months, years on the subject of the EU, may Jo's sacrifice not be forgotten.
4