It's time for Bernies Brexit.
63
Bernie says he'll vote for Hill. Discussion over.
33
President Bernie Sanders versus Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell and a Republican controlled house and senate. This is not a revolutionary scenario. Here is revolutionary scenario;
Why doesn't Bernie Sanders get in the gun control fight? Why doesn't he use his political leverage to help his fellow Democrats press this issue? The Sanders campaign for months has been claiming that Bernie can make important things change that are otherwise 'stuck' so why doesn't he take up the gun control issue and show us?
Why doesn't Bernie Sanders get in the gun control fight? Why doesn't he use his political leverage to help his fellow Democrats press this issue? The Sanders campaign for months has been claiming that Bernie can make important things change that are otherwise 'stuck' so why doesn't he take up the gun control issue and show us?
142
Message to Sander’s supporters: Let the Brexit vote be a wake-up call. If you don’t get behind a candidate that will advance the majority of what Sanders has espoused over the past months you will live with the consequences!!
52
Representative John Lewis was once, like SecState John Kerry, a brave young man who fought for the truth. Now he is, like Kerry, a Democrat hack politician, who is more interested in his power, position and perks than the truth. So Lewis, who once fought to get the vote, has like so many of the other Dem hacks who are super-dlegates, decided to short circuit the "one person, one vote" basis of our democracy, to declare for a possibly criminally corrupt "presumptive" candidate Clinton.
The Democrats want to defraud us of our votes (lawsuits under RICO happening now, in number of states) and rig the primary against Sanders (another class action lawsuit on DNC corruption starting up) and then "pivot and unite" behind your pathological liar candidate (view proof in dozens of videos on YouTube)? Really, the chutzpah.
Due to the criminal behavior of the party, I have quit to join the Greens and notified my two senators, Warren and Markey, and one TPP favoring Rep, Neal, that they have lost my respect, and my vote.
What America needs Mr. Rosenthal, IS Bernie Sanders.
The Democrats want to defraud us of our votes (lawsuits under RICO happening now, in number of states) and rig the primary against Sanders (another class action lawsuit on DNC corruption starting up) and then "pivot and unite" behind your pathological liar candidate (view proof in dozens of videos on YouTube)? Really, the chutzpah.
Due to the criminal behavior of the party, I have quit to join the Greens and notified my two senators, Warren and Markey, and one TPP favoring Rep, Neal, that they have lost my respect, and my vote.
What America needs Mr. Rosenthal, IS Bernie Sanders.
44
In all likelihood, Bernie Sanders still isn't a Democrat.
42
I supported and worked for both McCarthy and McGovern and got Nixon, Reagan and the two Bushes. Being an ideologue makes you feel good but it does not win elections….strategy and tactics do. The liberal wing (of which I am/was a member) of the Democratic party always thought it could win elections alone. That does not happen…you win elections from the political middle.
The Clintons, warts and all, brought the party out of the political wilderness. They made the party relevant again. They have done all the necessary work to engage and incorporate minorities into the party…they had both forethought and judgement to see it coming 25 years ago. Bernie has not spent much time talking and connecting to minorities….and he is 3,800,000 votes behind because of it.
As Sanders said this morning Trump needs to be defeated...your candidate knows what the future could be...the alternative is a political wilderness that is very very cold...
Supreme Court and judicial picks
Abolishing of Roe v Wade
More war in the Mideast
Reversal of progress on civil rights for all
More economic inequality
More class warfare
More racism and overt forms of hate being tolerated
Total deregulation of economic and environmental enforcement
Understand what you are contemplating when you say you will not vote for HRC or vote for Trump....Nader continues to say he was not responsible for W....he thinks if he keeps saying it long enough it will start to be true....we know different.
The Clintons, warts and all, brought the party out of the political wilderness. They made the party relevant again. They have done all the necessary work to engage and incorporate minorities into the party…they had both forethought and judgement to see it coming 25 years ago. Bernie has not spent much time talking and connecting to minorities….and he is 3,800,000 votes behind because of it.
As Sanders said this morning Trump needs to be defeated...your candidate knows what the future could be...the alternative is a political wilderness that is very very cold...
Supreme Court and judicial picks
Abolishing of Roe v Wade
More war in the Mideast
Reversal of progress on civil rights for all
More economic inequality
More class warfare
More racism and overt forms of hate being tolerated
Total deregulation of economic and environmental enforcement
Understand what you are contemplating when you say you will not vote for HRC or vote for Trump....Nader continues to say he was not responsible for W....he thinks if he keeps saying it long enough it will start to be true....we know different.
81
One more point.
"Bloomberg quoted Laura Armes, 43, of Beeville, Tex., who said: “I don’t agree with a lot of what Trump says. But he won’t owe anybody. What you see is what you get.”
You want to scare Sanders supporters with Texas, Mr. Rosenthal? We know all about Texas, and yeah, we're scared of it, but it's not a swing state. We know how Texas is going to vote, and Ms. Laura Armes' little vote won't matter at all.
Get someone with some intelligence in a swing state who's switching from Sanders and Trump if you're hoping to instill fear.
"Bloomberg quoted Laura Armes, 43, of Beeville, Tex., who said: “I don’t agree with a lot of what Trump says. But he won’t owe anybody. What you see is what you get.”
You want to scare Sanders supporters with Texas, Mr. Rosenthal? We know all about Texas, and yeah, we're scared of it, but it's not a swing state. We know how Texas is going to vote, and Ms. Laura Armes' little vote won't matter at all.
Get someone with some intelligence in a swing state who's switching from Sanders and Trump if you're hoping to instill fear.
18
You know, what Bernie PROVES, undeniably, is that the system can be changed from the inside. So now more than ever is the time to stay engaged. Don't throw votes away on marginal Green or Peace and Freedom candidates. Clinton can be moved, has been moved. I'm sure she's just itching for the chance to move. Make her do it.
97
Bernie Sanders will come through. He will. And maybe the timing will even be more successful. After all, the opponent is in Scotland right now on the golf course, in the golf cart, with his white golf shoes on, and the red hat, making America great again. Can you think of any foreign place politically than Scotland? Maybe he's even making Scotland a little greater, who knows. At least he will think so and tell everyone else that, too.
But back to what needs to be done here. Bernie showed the country he has a voice. And when Bernie does join the bandwagon, albeit not his own band, but that which plays the good of the whole country tunes, he will be heard, he will be listened to, and his words will be respected.
In regard to Paul Ryan's disrespect of John Lewis - Paul Ryan wouldn't have a clue about the innards of John Lewis. Read "Walk in the Wind" and then have fun in your mind dismissing Paul Ryan as the country's spoiled brat, as he is so described in this article.
But back to what needs to be done here. Bernie showed the country he has a voice. And when Bernie does join the bandwagon, albeit not his own band, but that which plays the good of the whole country tunes, he will be heard, he will be listened to, and his words will be respected.
In regard to Paul Ryan's disrespect of John Lewis - Paul Ryan wouldn't have a clue about the innards of John Lewis. Read "Walk in the Wind" and then have fun in your mind dismissing Paul Ryan as the country's spoiled brat, as he is so described in this article.
21
What this lifelong true blue Democrat needs from Bernie Sanders is his commitment to fight for the issues that he ran on; those same issues that progressives like myself have demanded from the party for years...in my case, more than 42 years. I am OVER the Democratic Party, unless they heed the message of the many millions of voters who spoke clearly about our dissatisfaction with the DNC and Clinton. Here's the deal....you want my vote? You'll start listening to what I want. Otherwise, the Dems will Never Again get my vote. Got it? As for Lewis' activism, past and present...I respect the John Lewis of the civil rights era. What I saw this week was a sad attempt at activism, in which Lewis and his fellow party members sat on the plushly carpeted floor of the air conditioned House, while having their meals catered, as their self-promoting selfies posted to their social media accounts. Call me unimpressed.
29
I am a Bernie Sanders voter who is OF COURSE going to vote for the only viable alternative to him, a woman whose personal avarice is unseemly, a war hawk, a rule bender and the leader of a political machine that comes close to disenfranchising my voting rights by handing me my candidate on a platter. Because, for a Bernie Sanders voter, Hilary Clinton is the only alternative to Donald Trump.
53
Bernie Sanders - are you seeking the Holy Grail for America's glory or your own?
30
I'm starting to become a bit hopeless here. Since when did choosing who to vote for in a presidential election become about "let's see what they give me/us" instead of just doing the right thing for the WHOLE country? Bernie Sanders' campaign was similar to Obama's. A relatively unknown US Senator with a grassroots movement, running against Hillary Clinton. But Clinton lost to Obama by an INCREDIBLY SMALLER MARGIN than Bernie did to Clinton. Superdelegates who supported her then switched to Obama because he had more pledged delegates. I voted for Clinton in the 2008 primary, and was on the Obama train the minute she lost. Not because I didn't really support her, but because as a Democrat and a human being, I could never inflict McCain/Palin on the rest of the country. I realized I wasn't more important than the other 300 million people in the country, even though I was upset Clinton lost. Life goes on, and so did the general election, whether I felt cheated out of my candidate or not.
58
In the words of Homer J. Simpson, "this has gone on ... just long enough!"
19
It is up to Hillary Clinton, not Bernie Sanders, to convince voters to vote for her. She is the candidate. If the Democrats nominated a solid, qualified candidate who truly wants to serve the country, that candidate would win easily and Donald Trump would not be a problem. Instead we have Hillary, and Donald along with her.
With regard to the House sit-in, I think it was indirectly inspired, or at least influenced, by Bernie Sanders. Maybe the protesting Democrats figured out that they may not be members of Sanders supporters' "Brand New Congress" if they don't start responding to their constituents instead of the Big Money plutocrats.
With regard to the House sit-in, I think it was indirectly inspired, or at least influenced, by Bernie Sanders. Maybe the protesting Democrats figured out that they may not be members of Sanders supporters' "Brand New Congress" if they don't start responding to their constituents instead of the Big Money plutocrats.
38
It is frightening to read the comments posted here by SOME of the Sanders supporters, frightening in their ignorance and frightening in their ugliness.
I was a huge fan of Bernie Sanders for a very long time, probably starting even before some of his current supporters knew he was alive or what his stand was on various issues.
But, I am starting to lose my admiration for Bernie because right now Bernie is just giving lip service to making sure Donald Trump never gets to be president.
Bernie is basically writing Trump's speeches for him. Donald Trump doesn't need to think up ugly accusations to hurl at Hillary Clinton; he can (and does) just use Bernie's own words to attack her.
The Sanders supporters who say that if Bernie is not the nominee they will vote for Trump are pseudo Sanders supporters.
One cannot believe in what Bernie says he believes in and, yet, vote for Trump whose beliefs are the opposite of all Bernie claims to believe.
Those Sanders supporters who vow to stay home and not vote at all are helping to elect Donald Trump president.
Those Sanders supporters who say they will write in Bernie's name or vote for a third-party candidate are helping to elect Donald Trump president.
I just hope the Sanders supporters understand that whatever harm a President Trump would do, he would do not only to the rest of us but to YOU as well!
I was a huge fan of Bernie Sanders for a very long time, probably starting even before some of his current supporters knew he was alive or what his stand was on various issues.
But, I am starting to lose my admiration for Bernie because right now Bernie is just giving lip service to making sure Donald Trump never gets to be president.
Bernie is basically writing Trump's speeches for him. Donald Trump doesn't need to think up ugly accusations to hurl at Hillary Clinton; he can (and does) just use Bernie's own words to attack her.
The Sanders supporters who say that if Bernie is not the nominee they will vote for Trump are pseudo Sanders supporters.
One cannot believe in what Bernie says he believes in and, yet, vote for Trump whose beliefs are the opposite of all Bernie claims to believe.
Those Sanders supporters who vow to stay home and not vote at all are helping to elect Donald Trump president.
Those Sanders supporters who say they will write in Bernie's name or vote for a third-party candidate are helping to elect Donald Trump president.
I just hope the Sanders supporters understand that whatever harm a President Trump would do, he would do not only to the rest of us but to YOU as well!
57
What America needs from Bernie is what he is giving to America, integrity and authenticity. Try as they might to disparage him, the truth is undeniable. Stay the course Bernie, America needs to hear you.
43
"a presumptive Democratic nominee who is less adept at campaigning." You say that as if it is the only difference between the two candidates. That is plainly insulting to voters, on either side of the camapaigns. To claim that the only reason Sanders has thrived is because he puts on a better show, and should now throw his skills behind a candidate who just isn't very good at what she is supposed to be doing, is the height of arrogance. Clinton needs to come out with a message that will appeal to Sanders supporters.
Instead, her campaign and supporters have adopted a condescending, arrogant attitude. The height of which is to claim that if Donald Trump wins, it is the fault of Sanders supporters. Talk about finger pointing. IF Trump wins, it will have nothing to do with Sanders and everything to do with Clinton's candidacy. Trying to leave Sanders with the bag for her failings is completely ludicrous. As well as illogical. It appears she and her supporters misunderstands how electoral campaigns are held. People vote for you because they share your vision, they trust you, and they honestly believe you can make a difference in their lives. Her failure to instill that in voters, both democrat and independent (think of what %s we'd be talking about if every state had open primaries) rests solely on her shoulders, nobody else's.
Instead, her campaign and supporters have adopted a condescending, arrogant attitude. The height of which is to claim that if Donald Trump wins, it is the fault of Sanders supporters. Talk about finger pointing. IF Trump wins, it will have nothing to do with Sanders and everything to do with Clinton's candidacy. Trying to leave Sanders with the bag for her failings is completely ludicrous. As well as illogical. It appears she and her supporters misunderstands how electoral campaigns are held. People vote for you because they share your vision, they trust you, and they honestly believe you can make a difference in their lives. Her failure to instill that in voters, both democrat and independent (think of what %s we'd be talking about if every state had open primaries) rests solely on her shoulders, nobody else's.
25
Until Clinton can persuade everyone under 45 and a great many older who love Bernie Sanders message and policies that she is an actual Democrat and preferably an FDR Democrat, we remain a serious risk of a Trump victory.
35
Sanders said he would stay in till the convention. He said he would vote for Clinton , He said he would do what ever he could to defeat Trump. Give it a rest.
34
The Democratic Party seems to be under the delusion that the voters are here to serve them and not the other way around.
42
"One way for him to help make sure that doesn’t happen is to put his abundant skills as a candidate behind a presumptive Democratic nominee who is less adept at campaigning."
It's not Sanders who has abundant campaigning skills, it is his volunteers that brought him to within striking distance of the Clinton machine.
Sanders was trying to get those intelligent, creative, highly organized activists to join the Democratic Party.
But the Democratic Party cut the primaries short, and started insulting these organizers from the movements for economic, environmental, and social justice.
Who these people vote for is not nearly as important as who they organize with. These are the people who are saving the world from Trump and his billionaire pals, who Clinton represents.
You'll see.
It's not Sanders who has abundant campaigning skills, it is his volunteers that brought him to within striking distance of the Clinton machine.
Sanders was trying to get those intelligent, creative, highly organized activists to join the Democratic Party.
But the Democratic Party cut the primaries short, and started insulting these organizers from the movements for economic, environmental, and social justice.
Who these people vote for is not nearly as important as who they organize with. These are the people who are saving the world from Trump and his billionaire pals, who Clinton represents.
You'll see.
20
"He needs to make it clear to his voters"... No. His voters need to stop following one person as if he is a deity, and start educating themselves on US Civics. Sanders is currently a working U.S. Senator, not a Guru. He needs to get back to the Senate floor. He needs to start introducing progressive legislation. Enough of the inspired speeches. Enough of the rallies and populist rhetoric. Time to actually implement those revolutionary ideas where it will actually mean something. Otherwise, the emperor has no clothes.
47
To the middle class world wide, it's a "throw the bums out" moment. But the underlying anger isn't nationalist. It's really the serfs chasing the lords, with pitchforks and torches. Too many of us have read Piketty, and understand the exploitation crippling all of us in the 99%.
Hillary has her issues, to be sure, but compared to the alternative Trump, she is the clearly wise choice. But this isn't a position of safety in the US or the world, as Britain has just seen.
Hillary needs to start talking up a growth agenda for the 99% that isn't calibrated by interest group giveaways. If she successfully advances this agenda, Bernie's real issues are addressed, and the US avoids the lynch-mob political upheaval that is eating much of the developed world.
Forget about Bernie. That's driving from the rear view mirror. Solve the message problem, and plan on delivering.
Hillary has her issues, to be sure, but compared to the alternative Trump, she is the clearly wise choice. But this isn't a position of safety in the US or the world, as Britain has just seen.
Hillary needs to start talking up a growth agenda for the 99% that isn't calibrated by interest group giveaways. If she successfully advances this agenda, Bernie's real issues are addressed, and the US avoids the lynch-mob political upheaval that is eating much of the developed world.
Forget about Bernie. That's driving from the rear view mirror. Solve the message problem, and plan on delivering.
20
Polling prior to the Brexit vote showed "Remain" leading slightly. The actual results ought to strike fear into the hearts of establishment figures everywhere.
Most voters do not realize the true root cause of the malaise that grips the world economy and has restricted their share of economic gains over the past 20 years. As discussed in these pages (Financialization as a Cause of Economic Malaise), moneyed interests skim all the cream off the economy, leaving skim milk for the rest of us.
The targets of citizen rage are misdirected. Immigrants are targeted rather than outsourcing and H1b visa abuse. Jobs vanished due to financialization, which practically dictated outsourcing. Immigrants have taken up the low-paid jobs Americans don't want (e.g. chicken-plucking), not good factory jobs.
Reagan's mantra, "government is the problem", has been repeated so often most people now agree. It IS true, not in the way he insinuated, but because our elected elites are completely subservient to moneyed rent-seeking interests, not because they have passed legislation (what a quaint idea) that has tried to improve people's lives.
Republicans this year have stoked anti-immigrant/anti-intellectual sentiment, appealing to the lowest instincts of voters, directing their rage at the reflection of the cause of their despair. Bernie Sanders tried to illuminate the true forces. If Ms. Clinton hopes to win, she needs to address the true forces honestly, lest the distorted version prevail.
Most voters do not realize the true root cause of the malaise that grips the world economy and has restricted their share of economic gains over the past 20 years. As discussed in these pages (Financialization as a Cause of Economic Malaise), moneyed interests skim all the cream off the economy, leaving skim milk for the rest of us.
The targets of citizen rage are misdirected. Immigrants are targeted rather than outsourcing and H1b visa abuse. Jobs vanished due to financialization, which practically dictated outsourcing. Immigrants have taken up the low-paid jobs Americans don't want (e.g. chicken-plucking), not good factory jobs.
Reagan's mantra, "government is the problem", has been repeated so often most people now agree. It IS true, not in the way he insinuated, but because our elected elites are completely subservient to moneyed rent-seeking interests, not because they have passed legislation (what a quaint idea) that has tried to improve people's lives.
Republicans this year have stoked anti-immigrant/anti-intellectual sentiment, appealing to the lowest instincts of voters, directing their rage at the reflection of the cause of their despair. Bernie Sanders tried to illuminate the true forces. If Ms. Clinton hopes to win, she needs to address the true forces honestly, lest the distorted version prevail.
12
Sanders lost, he lost big, and as much as Sanders and his supports complained their campaign did not get enough media coverage, it also kept Sanders from having to put real numbers and details on his economic plans, defend his minuscule record of accomplishments over 30 years in Washington, or his position on guns. Moreover, while Sanders continued to attack Clinton through the California primary, Clinton had a hands-off approach to Sanders from March onward. So it's now wonder that Sanders has a high favorable rating, he's never had to defend himself or his plans.
But as The Shorenstein Center on Media, Politics and Public Policy noted, Hillary Clinton's media coverage was 87 percent negative, rarely discussed her accomplishments as Secretary of State, and wholly ignored her eight year tenure as a U.S. Senator, a twelve year period during which she was widely respected.
It is past time for Sanders to exit the stage, he not only hurts the Democratic party, whose leadership he sought, he as begun to alienate the 60 percent of Democrats who wanted to see Clinton nominated. As much as Sanders supporters demand recognition and changes to the Democratic party in order to assist in the defeat of Donald Trump, the overwhelming majority of Democrats who support Clinton are indispensable to anyone seriously seeking to move forward with a progressive agenda in the future.
But as The Shorenstein Center on Media, Politics and Public Policy noted, Hillary Clinton's media coverage was 87 percent negative, rarely discussed her accomplishments as Secretary of State, and wholly ignored her eight year tenure as a U.S. Senator, a twelve year period during which she was widely respected.
It is past time for Sanders to exit the stage, he not only hurts the Democratic party, whose leadership he sought, he as begun to alienate the 60 percent of Democrats who wanted to see Clinton nominated. As much as Sanders supporters demand recognition and changes to the Democratic party in order to assist in the defeat of Donald Trump, the overwhelming majority of Democrats who support Clinton are indispensable to anyone seriously seeking to move forward with a progressive agenda in the future.
116
Dear Berners,
Stay home and pout; don't vote, vote "Green", vote Trump. The result will be a Trump Presidency combined with a Republican Congress. Trump will get to appoint up to FOUR Justices to SCOTUS. Oops, there goes Roe, Dodd-Frank, CFPB, HCA. and we'll be well on our way to "faith" exemptions for everything. You will bring about precisely the opposite of what Senator Sanders has been espousing for his entire political life.
This could be the first time that the young eat their revolution.
Stay home and pout; don't vote, vote "Green", vote Trump. The result will be a Trump Presidency combined with a Republican Congress. Trump will get to appoint up to FOUR Justices to SCOTUS. Oops, there goes Roe, Dodd-Frank, CFPB, HCA. and we'll be well on our way to "faith" exemptions for everything. You will bring about precisely the opposite of what Senator Sanders has been espousing for his entire political life.
This could be the first time that the young eat their revolution.
34
Congrats to Mr. Rosenthal. I agree that Bernie should get behind Hillary and urge his followers to do the same. That's the only way to be sure that Trump will not win in November.
15
I'm a Sanders supporter who will vote for Hillary. Sanders has something Clinton and the party desperately want- Sanders donor list. Surely a list of 8 million plus Americans capable of raising $230 million is worth something to her. What will she do for it? She will have to stay in the left lane driving into the general election.
6
"The chilling scene in the House was just a taste of what Sanders followers will risk if they do not throw their undeniable enthusiasm behind Clinton and other Democratic candidates, and the G.O.P. holds Congress and wins the White House in November."
That scene wasn't "chilling," it was a laughable circus, a pony show by HRC superdelegates--with catered gourmet dinner. The only thing "I find chilling" is that anyone was actually impressed by it. We are not fooled, and we're sure not confused.
Our "undeniable enthusiasm" is not some stream of electrons that can be mindlessly ported from one system to another. It's a bit excessive to ask us for passion that Hillary's own supporters don't have. No, she's not getting it. She doesn't inspire it, at least in the positive sense.
Regardless of Bernie's endorsement and exhortations, some of us will sit out this vote. Some of us will vote Gary Johnson or, more likely, Jill Stein. Some will vote for Donald Trump. And yes, some will vote for Hillary Clinton. And all bets are off if the GOP switches horses.
You're not going win us with "for your own good" (see Alice Miller) threats and cajoling. We have had month after month of belittling, ridiculing, and bullying by Clinton supporters, and we are sick of it. Focus on the merits of your candidate, and spare us the punitive, paternalistic ugliness.
That scene wasn't "chilling," it was a laughable circus, a pony show by HRC superdelegates--with catered gourmet dinner. The only thing "I find chilling" is that anyone was actually impressed by it. We are not fooled, and we're sure not confused.
Our "undeniable enthusiasm" is not some stream of electrons that can be mindlessly ported from one system to another. It's a bit excessive to ask us for passion that Hillary's own supporters don't have. No, she's not getting it. She doesn't inspire it, at least in the positive sense.
Regardless of Bernie's endorsement and exhortations, some of us will sit out this vote. Some of us will vote Gary Johnson or, more likely, Jill Stein. Some will vote for Donald Trump. And yes, some will vote for Hillary Clinton. And all bets are off if the GOP switches horses.
You're not going win us with "for your own good" (see Alice Miller) threats and cajoling. We have had month after month of belittling, ridiculing, and bullying by Clinton supporters, and we are sick of it. Focus on the merits of your candidate, and spare us the punitive, paternalistic ugliness.
24
Sanders and his minions have been using the GOP Book of Rove as a script and a blue print for his increasingly desperate attempt to stay alive in primaries.
Since such a large portion of Sanders supporters have never voted before, are not likely to vote now, or at any time in the future, I am not so certain their numbers would effect the outcome in Nov.
These are the dems who vote sporadically if at all, and almost never in mid-terms. These dems are the reason things have gone the gop's way for 35 years. why the house has been gerrymandered into a GOP institution now and for the next 14 years. why the courts have sided with big pollution and GOP voting suppression.
If bernie supporters are really looking for the reason they feel so disenfranchised, so left out, a quick trip to the nearest mirror will help them find it.
Since such a large portion of Sanders supporters have never voted before, are not likely to vote now, or at any time in the future, I am not so certain their numbers would effect the outcome in Nov.
These are the dems who vote sporadically if at all, and almost never in mid-terms. These dems are the reason things have gone the gop's way for 35 years. why the house has been gerrymandered into a GOP institution now and for the next 14 years. why the courts have sided with big pollution and GOP voting suppression.
If bernie supporters are really looking for the reason they feel so disenfranchised, so left out, a quick trip to the nearest mirror will help them find it.
17
Looking at many of the comments here, I see an irreconcilable conflict between progressive beliefs about Clinton and the right wing's reaction to her. Only one view can be correct. So I ask:
If Clinton is just greedy for money and power...why isn't she a Republican auditioning for Koch, Adelson, and the other right-wing anarchist billionaires? And if she's so easily bought, why has the right-wing smear machine poured perhaps a billion dollars into an organized, multi-pronged, 30-year war against her? They used Congress, the media, even the Supreme Court. Citizens United was about the conservatives' right to devote unlimited funds to demonizing Hillary Clinton. And why would people whose goal is to accumulate money spend so much of it if she were easily bought with a $250,000 speaking fee? (For perspective, Trump gets a modest $1,500,000 per speech.)
How does any of this comport with the idea that she's not really liberal or progressive, that she's secretly a corrupt right-winger? Wouldn't Republicans WANT her in office if they could make secret deals with her? But they don't, to the tune of nearly a billion dollars and a Supreme Court case.
How can this possibly make sense to anti-Clinton progressives? I believe what right-wing money is really telling us -- she is a highly effective, pragmatic, unstoppable liberal, and the Republicans' worst nightmare.
If Clinton is just greedy for money and power...why isn't she a Republican auditioning for Koch, Adelson, and the other right-wing anarchist billionaires? And if she's so easily bought, why has the right-wing smear machine poured perhaps a billion dollars into an organized, multi-pronged, 30-year war against her? They used Congress, the media, even the Supreme Court. Citizens United was about the conservatives' right to devote unlimited funds to demonizing Hillary Clinton. And why would people whose goal is to accumulate money spend so much of it if she were easily bought with a $250,000 speaking fee? (For perspective, Trump gets a modest $1,500,000 per speech.)
How does any of this comport with the idea that she's not really liberal or progressive, that she's secretly a corrupt right-winger? Wouldn't Republicans WANT her in office if they could make secret deals with her? But they don't, to the tune of nearly a billion dollars and a Supreme Court case.
How can this possibly make sense to anti-Clinton progressives? I believe what right-wing money is really telling us -- she is a highly effective, pragmatic, unstoppable liberal, and the Republicans' worst nightmare.
40
With Trump, if "what you see is what you get," and what you get is an empty, vain, bullying narcissist, is this a sound justification for a Sanders supporter to propel him into the Oval Office? What are people like Laura Adams of Beeville, Texas thinking? This is like supporting Hitler because he was his own man, forgetting that "his own man" was a genocidal monster who was responsible for 60 million deaths and untold suffering throughout much of the world.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
18
"The Sanders crowd..."?
Well, I suppose it could more demeaning but it's about what I've come to expect from The Clinton crowd at the NYT.
What seems to elude The Clinton crowd is that the Sanders' votes are not his to give away.
If Clinton wants those votes she'll have to get them the old fashion way -- work for them.
Well, I suppose it could more demeaning but it's about what I've come to expect from The Clinton crowd at the NYT.
What seems to elude The Clinton crowd is that the Sanders' votes are not his to give away.
If Clinton wants those votes she'll have to get them the old fashion way -- work for them.
33
Bernie's wish list has always been Hillary's to do list. That he continues to act as if he invented the Democratic agenda, leading his followers to spite the Party while the Democrats work against the treasonous Republican refusal to govern....puts him on a level with Paul Ryan, in my eyes.
25
Amen- Bernie needs to get off his high horse and get to work.
20
"The forces of hatred and racism he was opposing then are only marginally different from the ones now represented by the Republicans, led by Donald Trump."
No. Our nation is light years ahead of where it was in 1965. This statement, alone, belies the truth about the Left's mythology and methodology. The party of peace, love, inclusion, acceptance, hope, and leaving the past behind to build a better tomorrow practices politics by issuing the same old, same old, deliberately divisive warnings about the Republican apocalypse with the GOP playing the sadistic, self-destructive Bogeyman. All liberals must accept this portrait as absolute truth if they are to be valued members of the group.
What America needs from Bernie Sanders is to keep leading the conversation on the issues that motivate him. I agree with many of his ideas, but don't support his plan for bringing them to fruition. The DNC acts badly if they and their pundits (including Mr. Rosenthal) simply expect and/or demand that Sanders should shut up and blindly support Mrs. Clinton. To do so would be repulsive to him and to his supporters - it is the sort of "politics as usual" that he has condemned through his campaign and is what has struck a nerve with so many of those supporters. Strategically, the move will likely result in a low voter turn-out in November. That is not an intelligent plan for the DNC. Surely they have some less clumsy solution that will appeal to the Sanders crowd.
No. Our nation is light years ahead of where it was in 1965. This statement, alone, belies the truth about the Left's mythology and methodology. The party of peace, love, inclusion, acceptance, hope, and leaving the past behind to build a better tomorrow practices politics by issuing the same old, same old, deliberately divisive warnings about the Republican apocalypse with the GOP playing the sadistic, self-destructive Bogeyman. All liberals must accept this portrait as absolute truth if they are to be valued members of the group.
What America needs from Bernie Sanders is to keep leading the conversation on the issues that motivate him. I agree with many of his ideas, but don't support his plan for bringing them to fruition. The DNC acts badly if they and their pundits (including Mr. Rosenthal) simply expect and/or demand that Sanders should shut up and blindly support Mrs. Clinton. To do so would be repulsive to him and to his supporters - it is the sort of "politics as usual" that he has condemned through his campaign and is what has struck a nerve with so many of those supporters. Strategically, the move will likely result in a low voter turn-out in November. That is not an intelligent plan for the DNC. Surely they have some less clumsy solution that will appeal to the Sanders crowd.
17
Oh please.
Half of the comments are from Republican trolls. At least half.
(Yeah, I know, someone is going to say "no, no, I'm really a lifelong Democratic grandmother blah blah blah, you can trust me because nobody ever lies on the internet.")
I just saw Sanders on TV dictating "what Hillary needs to say", because of course the little woman has to soothe the ego of the loser and his loser BernieBoys.
Look, if the contest had been between Sanders and Joe Biden, we wouldn't be hearing any of this nonsense. Biden is a moderate just like HRC, but he's a man, and he wouldn't hold back telling Bernie where to get off. I suspect HRC did that in the private meeting, but she is being careful not to offend White Males by going public.
The people who claim to be Bernie supporters were never going to vote for Hillary anyway, even if Bernie had never existed. They aren't going to vote for her just because she says something, and it would be foolish to take extreme and unpopular positions which could alienate crossover voters like Republican women.
So Bernie has very little leverage at this point, and it is diminishing every day.
I suggest the "Independents" form the "Independent Party" and run in 2020, since they are "45% of voters", so they will easily win. I look forward to reading the "Independent" platform and policy statement.
Half of the comments are from Republican trolls. At least half.
(Yeah, I know, someone is going to say "no, no, I'm really a lifelong Democratic grandmother blah blah blah, you can trust me because nobody ever lies on the internet.")
I just saw Sanders on TV dictating "what Hillary needs to say", because of course the little woman has to soothe the ego of the loser and his loser BernieBoys.
Look, if the contest had been between Sanders and Joe Biden, we wouldn't be hearing any of this nonsense. Biden is a moderate just like HRC, but he's a man, and he wouldn't hold back telling Bernie where to get off. I suspect HRC did that in the private meeting, but she is being careful not to offend White Males by going public.
The people who claim to be Bernie supporters were never going to vote for Hillary anyway, even if Bernie had never existed. They aren't going to vote for her just because she says something, and it would be foolish to take extreme and unpopular positions which could alienate crossover voters like Republican women.
So Bernie has very little leverage at this point, and it is diminishing every day.
I suggest the "Independents" form the "Independent Party" and run in 2020, since they are "45% of voters", so they will easily win. I look forward to reading the "Independent" platform and policy statement.
32
Agree. Bernie would NEVER have flapped his arms and jabbed his finger at Joe Biden (or any man) as he did at Hillary in the debate. He would not have interrupted Joe Biden or talked over him or snickered and sneered at his answers.
The sexism that underlies much of the Hillary-hate is evident.
I hope non-sexist men will vote in November and encourage other men to do the same.
The sexism that underlies much of the Hillary-hate is evident.
I hope non-sexist men will vote in November and encourage other men to do the same.
22
Bernie can give an inspiring speech and his heart is in the right place. But why do his supporters believe that he can do a better job than Obama in persuading Republican leaders to act in the best interests of the country? As for Hillary's paid speeches, is there a politician out there who doesn't "take money"? Why is she being singled out? Is she supposed to unilaterally disarm while the Koch brothers bankroll Republicans? Bernie can help his cause of creating a better country by urging everyone to vote and sweep out Republicans intent on hollowing out the middle class.
22
It seems to me that Jane Sanders is Bernie's Mary Todd Lincoln.
3
Bernie fiddles while the world burns.
20
While Hillary tosses more wood onto the pile. Better a fiddler than an arsonist.
16
Here we go again, unite and vote for Hillary you "ideologically narrow, and hostile to anyone who disagrees with them, as the Trump crowd" Sanders supporters who won't vote for "mean old Hillary." Continued trivialization of Sanders supporter's concerns. Have the media not yet realized that this only serves to further entrench people? Talk about ideologically narrow.
21
Why would anyone who does not see a glorious future for themselves and their children support a neocon foreign agenda and a neoliberal economic agenda?
21
Any validity that Mr. Sanders might have brought to the discussion about how to bring about more social and financial equality, is now being over-shadowed by his inability to take any action beyond merely talking about it.
Judging by his actions, he has failed to realize that it's time to either get on the train, or get off.
The fact that many--too many--of his supporters are now vowing to put their support behind racist and sexist demagogue, speaks very little of the "social revolution'' Sanders has been promising to bring about during the course of his campaign.
And in their fervor, his supporters have managed to overlook the fact that Donald Trump is coming from the same 1%-Big-Business-Corporate-Wall- Street-class, they have consistently been demonizing Clinton about.
There is no logic to this. Only the lamentable inevitability of choice.
Judging by his actions, he has failed to realize that it's time to either get on the train, or get off.
The fact that many--too many--of his supporters are now vowing to put their support behind racist and sexist demagogue, speaks very little of the "social revolution'' Sanders has been promising to bring about during the course of his campaign.
And in their fervor, his supporters have managed to overlook the fact that Donald Trump is coming from the same 1%-Big-Business-Corporate-Wall- Street-class, they have consistently been demonizing Clinton about.
There is no logic to this. Only the lamentable inevitability of choice.
16
A vote for Hillary is a vote for more war in the ME. I thought she made that abundantly clear in the interview she gave to Jeffrey Goldberg for The Atlantic in August, 2014.
That's why I'll never vote for Hillary.
If Hillary was the great candidate you keep insisting she is, then why do you have to resort to fear to convince people to vote for her?
Sure I sent the maximum amount to Bernie's campaign and I see that Bernie has stated that he would vote for Hillary.
I have tremendous admiration for Bernie, but that doesn't mean I'll vote for a candidate who opposes my values to make the Democrats happy.
I'm voting my values, which means Jill Stein. If, however, it looks as though Trump could overtake Hillary in NY, I'll vote for Trump in hopes of stopping Hillary's ME adventures. And yes, I can see how unpalatable Trump would be, but I prioritize human life.
It is certainly disconcerting watching Democrats take such a cavalier attitude to human suffering when they're the ones promoting war.
Hillary is the Dick Cheney of the Democratic Party.
That's why I'll never vote for Hillary.
If Hillary was the great candidate you keep insisting she is, then why do you have to resort to fear to convince people to vote for her?
Sure I sent the maximum amount to Bernie's campaign and I see that Bernie has stated that he would vote for Hillary.
I have tremendous admiration for Bernie, but that doesn't mean I'll vote for a candidate who opposes my values to make the Democrats happy.
I'm voting my values, which means Jill Stein. If, however, it looks as though Trump could overtake Hillary in NY, I'll vote for Trump in hopes of stopping Hillary's ME adventures. And yes, I can see how unpalatable Trump would be, but I prioritize human life.
It is certainly disconcerting watching Democrats take such a cavalier attitude to human suffering when they're the ones promoting war.
Hillary is the Dick Cheney of the Democratic Party.
28
"If he wants a reward, fine. The Clinton campaign, for example, can make concessions on the party platform, which nobody talks about except on the day it’s adopted at the convention."
You guys really need to work on the humility thing. Unless your candidate can produce some positive reasons to vote for her you are in trouble. Sanders is a cute old geezer from New England. His popularity comes from his support of clear, simple and workable economic policies. No matter how hard he campaigns on Hillary's economic ideas it will not work. And Hillary will not want him to campaign for her on his own economic ideas.
You guys really need to work on the humility thing. Unless your candidate can produce some positive reasons to vote for her you are in trouble. Sanders is a cute old geezer from New England. His popularity comes from his support of clear, simple and workable economic policies. No matter how hard he campaigns on Hillary's economic ideas it will not work. And Hillary will not want him to campaign for her on his own economic ideas.
12
In 2000 Clinton won the senate vote 55%- 43%. In 2006 she won 67% to 33% only 3 counties in NY voted red. It is obvious that the voters believe they were represented by Clinton very well in the US Senate to garner the support that she did. If she's a lying, corporate tool as so many believe she surely fooled a large segment of the voters. 67% to be exact.
23
Isn't it possible that 67% of the voters in NY State weren't fooled but actually prefer a lying, corporate tool? Perhaps because so many of their jobs depend on places like Wall Street? Her victories in Senate races don't prove anything about Clinton's character or policies; they merely demonstrate that NY voters had no objection to her character or her policies.
10
My respect for Mr. Sanders shrinks with every passing day. He is now acting the part of the petulant child who refuses to toddle off to bed at his parents' party. He should realize that it's time to go, and that remaining in the race helps no one but Trump.
25
I am amazed at the number of Sanders supporterswho refuse to acknowledge that Hillary Clinton won the Democratic presidential nomination fair and square: by the number of pledged delegates and by the popular vote. If superdelegates were eliminated, Hillary Clinton would be the nominee. These are the facts.
Elections are about choice. Hillary Clinton is the choice of voters in the Democratic primaries.
Elections are also about rules. Rules for selection of Democratic candidates for national, state, and local offices are set by each state. These rules are easily accessible to voters. The rules were followed. Hillary Clinton won.
These days, it's easy to spread trashy rumors, without any facts, about anyone on the internet. I assume that the trash we see every day about Hillary Clinton reflects fear on the part of those who do not want to see a competent President in office.
Elections are about choice. Hillary Clinton is the choice of voters in the Democratic primaries.
Elections are also about rules. Rules for selection of Democratic candidates for national, state, and local offices are set by each state. These rules are easily accessible to voters. The rules were followed. Hillary Clinton won.
These days, it's easy to spread trashy rumors, without any facts, about anyone on the internet. I assume that the trash we see every day about Hillary Clinton reflects fear on the part of those who do not want to see a competent President in office.
22
I'm a Sanders supporter, and pretty fanatical, and I don't know any Sanders backers who claim that Clinton's win in the primary wasn't "fair and square". I hear a lot about such people in the media, and see the occasional silly post on the Internet, but no one I know actually thinks that.
What we do think is that the Democratic party apparatus did not run the primary in a true spirit of fairness, and we also think a lot of the rules set by the Democratic party in many of the states are lousy - lousy in general, not just because they weren't good for our candidate. They're designed to make insurgent, outsider campaigns much more difficult to mount (and some party leaders have admitted as much), and we don't think that's the way things ought to be.
Nobody cheated, but the rules of the game are set in favor of certain kinds of candidates, and we think that needs to change.
(I've been a registered Democrat for 30 years, so these are not merely the gripes of someone who has just joined.)
Most importantly, though, I think your last sentence is wildly off the mark. No, those of us who are dismayed to have Clinton as the Democratic nominee are not afraid of having a "competent" president. We disagree strongly with many of Clinton's policies, views, and inclinations, and so we don't see her as likely to pursue many of the goals we think are vitally important. It's as plain, simple, and honest as that.
What we do think is that the Democratic party apparatus did not run the primary in a true spirit of fairness, and we also think a lot of the rules set by the Democratic party in many of the states are lousy - lousy in general, not just because they weren't good for our candidate. They're designed to make insurgent, outsider campaigns much more difficult to mount (and some party leaders have admitted as much), and we don't think that's the way things ought to be.
Nobody cheated, but the rules of the game are set in favor of certain kinds of candidates, and we think that needs to change.
(I've been a registered Democrat for 30 years, so these are not merely the gripes of someone who has just joined.)
Most importantly, though, I think your last sentence is wildly off the mark. No, those of us who are dismayed to have Clinton as the Democratic nominee are not afraid of having a "competent" president. We disagree strongly with many of Clinton's policies, views, and inclinations, and so we don't see her as likely to pursue many of the goals we think are vitally important. It's as plain, simple, and honest as that.
60
Bernie folks, please use your heads and do your bit on election day. Hillary's opportunity as president is in a calibrated sweet spot between President Obama's majority and the good place that Bernie (and you) moved the needle to. You think she doesn't know that? She's nothing if not opportunistic, right? And she's certainly not dumb.
So please, consider the alternative in real terms, and show up.
So please, consider the alternative in real terms, and show up.
57
The continual drumbeat of disrespect toward Senator Sanders and his supporters does nothing to lure these oh-so-valuable supporters to Hillary's side. This writer, along with the rest of the NYTimes contingent, either do not understand, or choose to ignore, what fueled the senator's campaign. Without understanding that, you are not in a position to tell Bernie anything.
30
The last place that Mr. Sanders or anyone else not supportive of the elites should seek advise about what to do, or what America needs, is on the on the opinion pages of the New York Times.
22
Bernie Sanders is a "has been" in this campaign. It is unfortunate he and his supporters cannot move on.
10
I do not agree with Mr. Rosenthal when he says the Sanders crowd has had "a big effect" on Hillary. Hillary will borrow Bernie's positions only temporarily, and only while they remain politically expedient for her to use.
oz.
oz.
oz.
oz.
oz.
oz.
22
If you were paying attention, Senator Sanders was there at the sit-in, Mr. Rosenthal.
22
The media of course ignored it. Just like John Lewis ignored and denied young Bernie's role in the original civil rights activism of the 1960s.
14
no, what he needs to do is use those skills, his message and his unbelievable support to finally give this country a true 3rd party choice and put the rnc and that slime hrc out of business. after all the denigration of Bernie ("no chance" from the get go) and his supporters (the sexism criticism of his campaign and "bernie bots") it's odd to see camp hrc now "demand" his supporters support her bid. she's just as unpopular as trump, why doesn't she just step down and support bernie? she will not get my vote...
16
Sanders supporters who can't stomach voting for Hillary should vote for Green Party candidate Jill Stein http://www.jill2016.com/. She stands for practically all of the positions that Bernie does and she's a million miles away from Hillary's republican lite Kissinger calling war mongering track record.
22
The NY Times is supposed to be pro Clinton. Why on Earth do their writers continue to goad Sanders supporters and make them/us more anti Clinton with myopic pieces like this? Such writing only entrenches positions to a greater degree. If Clinton wants more votes from Sanders supporters she knows what to do.
19
Bernie is every bit as much about Bernie as Donald is about The Donald.
20
Sanders and his supporters have been pathological in their dismissal of all Democrats, Hilary Clinton and Barak Obama. Sanders has been happy to push the false narrative that Democrats are just as bad as Republicans because it sets him apart and gives him an aura of moral authority. Without that self applied gloss, this distraction also obscures the fact he is totally unprepared for being POTUS. He will have a hard time turning a good part of his fanatic base around.
16
Hey we love Obama. Too bad he chose Hillary for political convenience. Bernie is his true heir, the logical heir to the movement Obama started and envisioned....
11
AU contraire. There's plenty of time for the general election campaign and Senator Sanders long ago announced he wold support the party's nominee, but first "the Senator" should fulfill his promises to reform the sclerotic, utterly undemocratic 'Democratic' Party.
20
I need for him to go away and never return. His brand of socialism is very dangerous to our country. I doubt that he will do so.
9
Our country thrived on plurality of views, thoughts, ideas. There is always room at the table. You are free to move to a country where your fixed views are followed by the majority.
12
And I need him to stick around, because I think that his brand of socialism - which is pretty much what the rest of the industrialized world already has - is exactly what this country needs.
No one is going to go away just because you "need" them to. (If that were the case, I could wish away 3/4 of the members of the House of Representatives and 2/3 of the Senate right now, along with Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton and a whole long list of other folks I have little or no use for.)
No one is going to go away just because you "need" them to. (If that were the case, I could wish away 3/4 of the members of the House of Representatives and 2/3 of the Senate right now, along with Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton and a whole long list of other folks I have little or no use for.)
16
Whoa - establishment Democrats really need to stop placing the burden of unity on Sanders. They would do well to look closely at the Brexit outcome and see what happens when the upper class of a party loses touch with the larger working class it purports to represent. Playing the xenophobia and racism card as Labor did in the UK backfired. People realize there's more at stake - don't underestimate their ability to read the political economy and vote accordingly.
The Democrats will win in November if they can convince their constituents they are actually on their side, Clinton is not convincing in this regard, Sanders is. The sooner the establishment Democrats realize this, the sooner they can move on. Enough with the sore loser meme directed toward Sanders, he's maintaining his leverage so he can help salvage a misguided party at the convention and hopefully turn it into something that wins voters' trust by November. At this moment, the Democratic party needs Sanders a lot more than Clinton.
The Democrats will win in November if they can convince their constituents they are actually on their side, Clinton is not convincing in this regard, Sanders is. The sooner the establishment Democrats realize this, the sooner they can move on. Enough with the sore loser meme directed toward Sanders, he's maintaining his leverage so he can help salvage a misguided party at the convention and hopefully turn it into something that wins voters' trust by November. At this moment, the Democratic party needs Sanders a lot more than Clinton.
28
What Mr. Rosenthal fails to understand, what the maligners blathering about Sanders' "ego" fail to understand, is that we the people want Bernie Sanders to stay in this race. He is our candidate.
We are the ones who pounded the pavement canvassing, till our feet were sore. We are the ones who tightened our belts to send another $27 -- adding up to a whopping $230 million. That money didn't come from corporations, lobbyists, or SuperPacs. It came from US. WE are the ones who made 75 million phone calls for our candidate. We are the ones who painted murals, marched, and rallied.
We brought him this far, fighting the party establishment, the mainstream media, and YOU, New York Times, all the way.
"Not me, US," Sanders has famously said. 57% of Democrats have insisted they want Sanders to stay in the race. Sanders, a man of the people, knows better than to let us down.
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/06/01/vast-majority-democrats-want...
We are the ones who pounded the pavement canvassing, till our feet were sore. We are the ones who tightened our belts to send another $27 -- adding up to a whopping $230 million. That money didn't come from corporations, lobbyists, or SuperPacs. It came from US. WE are the ones who made 75 million phone calls for our candidate. We are the ones who painted murals, marched, and rallied.
We brought him this far, fighting the party establishment, the mainstream media, and YOU, New York Times, all the way.
"Not me, US," Sanders has famously said. 57% of Democrats have insisted they want Sanders to stay in the race. Sanders, a man of the people, knows better than to let us down.
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/06/01/vast-majority-democrats-want...
29
They do not understand the term we the people because they only listen to what the boardroom board of directors tell them to do. Wall Street has long arms and has penetrated mainstream media in ways that influence their daily reporting. They left journalism for blindly supporting Hillary and bashing whoever opposes her.
18
Among my objections to Bernie's candidacy: you guys have a nasty habit of skipping over a little thing we call, wossname, "the popular vote," preferring mere polling data, or caucus votes among a minority of voters, or even sneering at black voters.
11
The criticisms of Clinton from the left and right are mostly stunningly uninformed--here's why Sanders supporters should not just vote for her, but be active in her campaign http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/23/upshot/hillary-clinton-campaign.html?e...
9
In the article you site: "[she said she would] clamp down on banks in ways that would probably lead them to shrink."
It's the "probably" and other references to half-steps that make me think Clinton will be a tepid force for the changes we really need.
It's the "probably" and other references to half-steps that make me think Clinton will be a tepid force for the changes we really need.
12
Wow. Just wow. You still don't get it. You're not capable of understanding, maybe. That's what a life inside the Beltway bubble will do, but let me try to explain. Again.
Sen. Sanders does not make the decisions in this movement. We, his supporters, do. And we have decided we want him to fight to the Convention, and that we don't want to vote for an evil candidate, no matter how evil the other guy is.
If Sanders did the things you recommend, the movement would move on or evaporate. Which is, of course, what you want. This little outbreak of democracy, where WE are calling the shots and not some Party-Before-Country stooge, must be terrifying to the upper classes whose life work is to wage a vicious class war against the rest of us.
Fight on, Sen. Sanders.
Sen. Sanders does not make the decisions in this movement. We, his supporters, do. And we have decided we want him to fight to the Convention, and that we don't want to vote for an evil candidate, no matter how evil the other guy is.
If Sanders did the things you recommend, the movement would move on or evaporate. Which is, of course, what you want. This little outbreak of democracy, where WE are calling the shots and not some Party-Before-Country stooge, must be terrifying to the upper classes whose life work is to wage a vicious class war against the rest of us.
Fight on, Sen. Sanders.
26
So you're arg is, "Vote for Bernie, he's our puppet?"
Good grief. I dunno whether the ignorance or the arrogance is worse.
Good grief. I dunno whether the ignorance or the arrogance is worse.
10
How do you support someone whom you do not trust? Everytime, I think of Hillary Clinton the words "laissez faire" come to mind, and I don't speak French. To me - her thinking and her policies are in line with the woman whose children run free all over the neighborhood - children that never go home at supper time. And why would they want to - mom, Hillary is never home. (and she peddles this lifestyle to my children) But, what Hillary always fails to realize, is someone else will need to pick up the slack --- another mom - another family will set another plate. (the village nonsense) And many have grown tired of her irresponsibility, her sloppiness, and her disregard for those picking up the slack. She's playing the leading lady who has forgotten her supporting cast.
15
Bernie needs to quit the charade that he is a Democrat and that it is his right to demand changes within the party that he tried to hijack in December 2015. Now, if he wants to change the Socialist Party, go for it.
16
What a bunch of sour grapes! Just for the record, the sit-in was the idea of a Massachusetts representative, Katherine (?), who got John Lewis on board with it. She is one of the people who walked out on Ryan's "moment of silence" for the Orlando victims. It was her anger and disgust at the mockery of having yet another "moment of silence" for victims of gun violence in the House followed by doing nothing that brought this to a head. Please give her credit.
Both Bernie and Elizabeth Warren joined their colleagues' protest in the House. And while Lewis was beated during the Civil Rights march, Bernie was also arrested during that time for his part in that movement. If you are going to remember the 60s struggles, get all of it right.
When, oh when, will you finally get it? I am beginning to believe the answer is "never". Your disdain and comments dripping with mockery about Bernie and his supporters is wasted breathe. We do not turn to you for advice. You want us to get in line? Find a better approach. Ask yourself this morning, did scare tactics work to keep the English in line yesterday?
Wring your hands and shake your finger elsewhere. It isn't effective. I have been a Democrat for fifty years. Of course, these days you might not consider me a "real" Democrat because I vote for who I want and not for whom you want me to want. We have a purity test in the party this year. Just ask the Clinton people. I am quite unwelcome. Just vote our way and get lost, right? Drop dead.
Both Bernie and Elizabeth Warren joined their colleagues' protest in the House. And while Lewis was beated during the Civil Rights march, Bernie was also arrested during that time for his part in that movement. If you are going to remember the 60s struggles, get all of it right.
When, oh when, will you finally get it? I am beginning to believe the answer is "never". Your disdain and comments dripping with mockery about Bernie and his supporters is wasted breathe. We do not turn to you for advice. You want us to get in line? Find a better approach. Ask yourself this morning, did scare tactics work to keep the English in line yesterday?
Wring your hands and shake your finger elsewhere. It isn't effective. I have been a Democrat for fifty years. Of course, these days you might not consider me a "real" Democrat because I vote for who I want and not for whom you want me to want. We have a purity test in the party this year. Just ask the Clinton people. I am quite unwelcome. Just vote our way and get lost, right? Drop dead.
103
You haven't been a Democrat for fifty years, and it is beyond idiotic to claim that Bernie's getting safely arrested up North is anything even vaguely comparable to having the guts to walk out on the Pettis Bridge in 1964.
13
Sadly, intelligence, logic, and critical thinking are no longer effective. This has become a time of meeting crazy with crazy. I really don't know how you bring bright people to this type of fight effectively. We need a truly great leader, but they've abandoned our political system, and gone into business. What brilliant person wants/needs this insanity? Bernie Sanders has had decades in politics, and has accomplished nothing of significance, so why would POTUS change his effectiveness? He's just the blowhard from the left side of the fence.
8
The Democratic Party establishment has carefully arranged the nomination of their only possible candidate that Donald Trump has a realistic possibility of beating. A possibility which became more apparent this morning as we witness the power of xenophobia in the U.K. And now the establishment, and its water carriers in the NYT, are assigning the responsibility to avoid Trump to . . . Bernie Sanders.
It looks similar to Cameron flogging Corbyn to get more of his people behind "Remain," while Cameron's own party declined to support him.
It looks similar to Cameron flogging Corbyn to get more of his people behind "Remain," while Cameron's own party declined to support him.
11
Mr. Rosenthal states the obvious. The question is why does the obvious need stating and most of all why isn't it obvious to Bernie Sanders. He knows he is not going to be the nominee and has admitted it.
This election will be Clinton vs Trump. Right now if Bernie is not helping Hillary he is helping Trump. That is obvious but it may not be to Bernie. If it is not than he should see how Democrats are fighting to rescue our legislature from the NRA which apparently owns it lock, stock and barrel. Come on in Bernie, the revolution to restore democracy has begun without you.
I am proud to be a Democrat and Bernie now is the time to make the election about the nation and its people and to endorse Hillary and campaign with her across the country and get your followers to vote. Every stay at home voter is a vote for Trump and the GOP. Join Elizabeth Warren and go after Trump as the fraud, bigot and fear monger he is. Time to join the real battle.
This election will be Clinton vs Trump. Right now if Bernie is not helping Hillary he is helping Trump. That is obvious but it may not be to Bernie. If it is not than he should see how Democrats are fighting to rescue our legislature from the NRA which apparently owns it lock, stock and barrel. Come on in Bernie, the revolution to restore democracy has begun without you.
I am proud to be a Democrat and Bernie now is the time to make the election about the nation and its people and to endorse Hillary and campaign with her across the country and get your followers to vote. Every stay at home voter is a vote for Trump and the GOP. Join Elizabeth Warren and go after Trump as the fraud, bigot and fear monger he is. Time to join the real battle.
6
It is surprising to me how insistent and angry the establishment is toward Sanders and his supporters. It isn't Bernie Sanders who is complicating things for Clinton but this "punditsphere" that keeps scolding us like sore winners. And to Mr. Rosenthal's point about John Lewis and his sit-in, if Lewis had the enthusiastic support of Bernie Sanders supporters rallying behind him (and online), I don't think Paul Ryan and the republicans would stand a chance.
14
Bernie Sanders JOINED the sit-in. They still accomplished NOTHING!!!
4
Anti-establishment Sanders voters have more in common with anti-establishment Trump voters than either have with Wall Street Establishment Clinton.
Rosenthal does not get it. Even the Brexit vote is not enough for Rosenthal to get it.
Rosenthal does not get it. Even the Brexit vote is not enough for Rosenthal to get it.
9
DavidS- "Anti-establishment Sanders voters have more in common with anti-establishment Trump voters than either have with Wall Street Establishment Clinton. Rosenthal does not get it."
First off Trump represents no one but Trump and what's best for Trump. He really couldn't care less about you and the rest of the working class who could never be in his league. This is more than apparent since he has virtually insulted EVERY segment of society to date and boasts of the fact that he is exploiting them. If he is truly representative of how you feel towards your fellow man then I pity you.
The ones who don't get it are voters like you. Sanders may be anti-establishment, Trump couldn't be more of elitist, Wall St establishment crowd, Their goals, policies and platforms couldn't be more diametrically opposed. Sanders cares about the poor, the children, the environment, equality, education, health care, climate change, income inequality, the working man, SS solvency and more. How anyone can equate Sanders and Trump as just being different sides of the same coin is beyond ignorant. They obviously have no moral convictions at all since they are willing to elect the most dangerous candidate we have seen in years to the highest office in the land. There is a world of difference between the Sanders political revolution and the Trump annihilation. Sanders cares deeply about this country and its people. Trump only cares for himself. And pity the person who cannot discern the difference.
First off Trump represents no one but Trump and what's best for Trump. He really couldn't care less about you and the rest of the working class who could never be in his league. This is more than apparent since he has virtually insulted EVERY segment of society to date and boasts of the fact that he is exploiting them. If he is truly representative of how you feel towards your fellow man then I pity you.
The ones who don't get it are voters like you. Sanders may be anti-establishment, Trump couldn't be more of elitist, Wall St establishment crowd, Their goals, policies and platforms couldn't be more diametrically opposed. Sanders cares about the poor, the children, the environment, equality, education, health care, climate change, income inequality, the working man, SS solvency and more. How anyone can equate Sanders and Trump as just being different sides of the same coin is beyond ignorant. They obviously have no moral convictions at all since they are willing to elect the most dangerous candidate we have seen in years to the highest office in the land. There is a world of difference between the Sanders political revolution and the Trump annihilation. Sanders cares deeply about this country and its people. Trump only cares for himself. And pity the person who cannot discern the difference.
6
"Trump cares only for himself".
More hyperbole and saying nothing factual.
There is no point in commenting if you only rant.
"the ones how don't get it are voters like you."
Adding personal insult to David is arrogant and ugly.
More hyperbole and saying nothing factual.
There is no point in commenting if you only rant.
"the ones how don't get it are voters like you."
Adding personal insult to David is arrogant and ugly.
2
[Sanders] "needs to make it clear to his voters that they need to show up on Election Day, because staying home is like voting for Trump."
That's an double 'Amen Brother' coming from a Sanders supporter! I plan to vote for Clinton even if she is not my first choice, because the alternative is too horrible to imagine. So from one Sanders supporter to all other supporters, get out and vote for Hillary-even if you have to hold your nose to do it.
That's an double 'Amen Brother' coming from a Sanders supporter! I plan to vote for Clinton even if she is not my first choice, because the alternative is too horrible to imagine. So from one Sanders supporter to all other supporters, get out and vote for Hillary-even if you have to hold your nose to do it.
6
I was a supporter of Bernie from the very start of his campaign.But being a decades long Democrat I supported him because he ran for the Democratic nomination.I did so deciding from the start I would vote for whoever won the DEMOCRATIC Party nomination.That's still so,meaning I'll unhesitently vote for Hillary.
Bernie by doing much better than most of us expected and by helping Hillary be a better campaigner due to his unexpectedly strong challenge against her has certainly earned a significant say at the Convention about both the platform as well as future party nominating rules.For instance we've probably seen the last of Superdelegates.But Bernie will return to the Senate which he will likely find very lonely if Hillary loses and his actions are seen as a reason why.
Bernie by doing much better than most of us expected and by helping Hillary be a better campaigner due to his unexpectedly strong challenge against her has certainly earned a significant say at the Convention about both the platform as well as future party nominating rules.For instance we've probably seen the last of Superdelegates.But Bernie will return to the Senate which he will likely find very lonely if Hillary loses and his actions are seen as a reason why.
4
"While the Sanders crowd continued to talk about revolution, Representative John Lewis led a sit-in of his fellow Democrats"
Andrew, you don't get it. The NRA's big money influence will continue to stifle any attempt at meaningful gun control. Democratic leaders can rock a sit in at Paul Ryan's house and it still won't matter. The pundit class needs to wake the heck up and start stumping for campaign finance reform right now.
Andrew, you don't get it. The NRA's big money influence will continue to stifle any attempt at meaningful gun control. Democratic leaders can rock a sit in at Paul Ryan's house and it still won't matter. The pundit class needs to wake the heck up and start stumping for campaign finance reform right now.
9
To be uncharitable ~ the NYTs is like a 5-year-old sticking his fingers in his ears and shouting “la la la.”
Is it not amazing how journeymen journalist are unable to understand reality? Unable to see beyond the wellbeing of their own tribe. Unable to grasp their own hypocrisy as they mouth platitudes out of one side of their mouths while grasping their wallets with white knuckles? Neoliberal Democrats are just as responsible for squeezing the life out of middle — middle class America as Republicans. The Clinton tribe, pro big business, including Pharma, Agriculture, defense and the list goes on, and on.
Andrew Rosenthal and the rest of the Times people have no respect whatsoever for the twelve million voters supporting Sanders. First it ignored the campaign, then it insulted readers who supported Sanders, and now it blames Sanders supporters for Clinton's problems selling her politics.
Is it not amazing how journeymen journalist are unable to understand reality? Unable to see beyond the wellbeing of their own tribe. Unable to grasp their own hypocrisy as they mouth platitudes out of one side of their mouths while grasping their wallets with white knuckles? Neoliberal Democrats are just as responsible for squeezing the life out of middle — middle class America as Republicans. The Clinton tribe, pro big business, including Pharma, Agriculture, defense and the list goes on, and on.
Andrew Rosenthal and the rest of the Times people have no respect whatsoever for the twelve million voters supporting Sanders. First it ignored the campaign, then it insulted readers who supported Sanders, and now it blames Sanders supporters for Clinton's problems selling her politics.
23
I would like to ask Andrew three questions.
1. Why did it take a Sanders's candidacy to move Clinton to the "left?" Why wouldn't she just move there on her own?
2. If Sanders didn't run does Andrew think the more liberal columnist at the Times would have tried to push her strongly in that direction? If not why not?
3. How much damage would a Clinton presidency need to do before devoted Clinton enablers like Paul Krugman would utter even one word of criticism?
1. Why did it take a Sanders's candidacy to move Clinton to the "left?" Why wouldn't she just move there on her own?
2. If Sanders didn't run does Andrew think the more liberal columnist at the Times would have tried to push her strongly in that direction? If not why not?
3. How much damage would a Clinton presidency need to do before devoted Clinton enablers like Paul Krugman would utter even one word of criticism?
27
I, like many others, would have liked to see Bernie Sanders as our Democratic Presidential Candidate. Having said that, it really IS important not to become bogged down in disappointment but instead to join forces with the Hillary Clinton campaign to pull away from the over-the-falls abyss that Trump and the GOP represent. Hillary's boat may not not be rowing quite as strongly away from the drop as Bernie's boat is, but at least we'd be all rowing in the same direction.
Come on, folks, the primaries are just ONE step in the whole process. Don't just drop your oars in the water, or we'll all end up down the river.
Come on, folks, the primaries are just ONE step in the whole process. Don't just drop your oars in the water, or we'll all end up down the river.
8
For 22 percent of Sanders voters to vote for Trump suggests that those 22 percent weren't really listening to anything Sanders had to say.
17
I am somewhat insulted by the constant statement that the only reason that Hillary won the primary is that the party decided on her early on.
I decided for my self to vote for Hillary early on.
Honestly, we need some things to change but we do not need a revolution! Think about what a revolution looks like!(Syria, Libya etc)....I don't need any of that.
I decided for my self to vote for Hillary early on.
Honestly, we need some things to change but we do not need a revolution! Think about what a revolution looks like!(Syria, Libya etc)....I don't need any of that.
13
How about what America needs from Hillary Clinton? America needs her to say, and to back up with her actions, that America is not going to remain a country where all the increase in wealth in the country is going to the top 1%. That she will fight to level the economic playing field. That she will work to make health care a right for all Americans. That she will support the interests of ordinary Americans and not the hedge fund managers on Wall Street. Restore Glass-Steagal. End the loopholes in the tax code so that the rich will pay their fair share.
12
pete-"America needs her to say, and to back up with her actions, that America is not going to remain a country where all the increase in wealth in the country is going to the top 1%. That she will fight to level the economic playing field. That she will work to make health care a right for all Americans..."
Clinton HAS said all this and more. She can't accomplish any of her goals until/unless she is elected. The election isn't over yet. Obama is still president. Geesh!!
Why do you so readily believe Sanders would achieve all his stated goals if elected but Clinton would achieve none? I just can't understand the pretzel logic of Sanders' staunches supporters.
Give Clinton a progressive congress and she'll achieve a lot. But if we keep the status quo congress even Sanders would accomplish nothing. He KNOWS this. That is why he was calling for a political revolution at the ballot box, from local to federal government. Nothing will change until and unless we can change the obstruction in both the House and Senate and in our state governments. Sanders spoke of this time and time again. Was anybody even paying attention?
Clinton HAS said all this and more. She can't accomplish any of her goals until/unless she is elected. The election isn't over yet. Obama is still president. Geesh!!
Why do you so readily believe Sanders would achieve all his stated goals if elected but Clinton would achieve none? I just can't understand the pretzel logic of Sanders' staunches supporters.
Give Clinton a progressive congress and she'll achieve a lot. But if we keep the status quo congress even Sanders would accomplish nothing. He KNOWS this. That is why he was calling for a political revolution at the ballot box, from local to federal government. Nothing will change until and unless we can change the obstruction in both the House and Senate and in our state governments. Sanders spoke of this time and time again. Was anybody even paying attention?
8
To Bernie Sanders supporters: even if Mr Sanders was to be elected president of the United States, the reforms that he has promulgated during his campaign would likely be frustrated, unless he has a Congress willing to go along with his ideas. That is an event would seem highly unlikely under the current political scenario. We need to remember that our great ship of state was designed to move slowly, and that fact is either one of its greatest virtues or one of its epic failures. However, to abandon Secretary Clinton in a fit of pique, and allow Trump to burn down the house is not a viable plan. No one knows what would come out of the ashes, and if history is any judge, few revolutions ever attain their stated goal, and many times turn into something far worse. Such a gamble is unthinkable.
6
Britain just proved that people have a say in bringing change to the country and the globe at large. Americans can do it too by NOT electing status quo.
7
So, Bernie Sanders' so-called political revolution now morphs into an endorsement of neo-liberal war hawk Clinton. What an insult to those hundreds of thousands of earnest supporters who gave their time, money, hearts, and souls, hoping that maybe, just maybe this time, the 1% could be finally be overthrown. If Sanders was a true socialist, let alone a revolutionary leader, he would have nothing to do with the Democratic Party. Hopefully, Sanders' supporters will now regroup and unleash their tremendous latent power under an independent banner. The real battle for America will be won on the streets, not in the ballot box, the courts, Congress, the White House, the Sunday morning talk shows, nor any other elite environment. Isn't that obvious now?
10
One more snarky column by the New York Times. First, Mr. Rosenthal, please tell us just what policy positions Hillary adopted from Senator Sanders. I can't think of a single one. The suggestion that she has, or that Senator Sanders succeeded in pushing Hillary "to the left" is completely false. She is still, as always, the candidate who can't bring herself to push for a $15 an hour minimum wage, which is no surprise given that she spent years as a director of Walmart, the nation's biggest abuser of minimum wage workers.
And perhaps before your paper endorsed Hilary, it should have considered how many Americans will die in more disastrous foreign adventures that Hillary will push us into. Unlike Senator Sanders, Hillary supported the disastrous invasion of Iraq, or have you forgotten that little part of her resume?
Hillary will likely reverse herself, yet again, on the pipeline proposed to be built through the nation's largest aquifer. And she's likely to endorse the TPP, which will ruin the lives of countless working Americans.
Oh, and you left out one small detail in your recounting of the congressional sit-in: Senator Sanders went to the floor of the House to lend his support. Hillary couldn't be bothered to show up.
Telling, don't you think?
And perhaps before your paper endorsed Hilary, it should have considered how many Americans will die in more disastrous foreign adventures that Hillary will push us into. Unlike Senator Sanders, Hillary supported the disastrous invasion of Iraq, or have you forgotten that little part of her resume?
Hillary will likely reverse herself, yet again, on the pipeline proposed to be built through the nation's largest aquifer. And she's likely to endorse the TPP, which will ruin the lives of countless working Americans.
Oh, and you left out one small detail in your recounting of the congressional sit-in: Senator Sanders went to the floor of the House to lend his support. Hillary couldn't be bothered to show up.
Telling, don't you think?
18
Beyond the fact that St. Bernie showed for about five minutes and Clinton was in North Carolina campaigning, that Clinton's now on record opposing the TPP and never have Keystone XL more than the pro forma consideration she was requird to give as a Cabinet secretary, that what she actually voted for wasn't the war but an authorization to use force if necessary, that she wasn't "a director," of Walmart but a member of the Board, and that there are actually reasons for her pushing a $12/hour min wage, there's...
Oh, never mind. Jist try and show yp to vote this time, willya? Especially vote downticket.
Oh, never mind. Jist try and show yp to vote this time, willya? Especially vote downticket.
5
America needs Sanders to pack up and go back to Vermont! He obviously is unable to accept the fact that he lost the primary election and nomination. He has admitted he would not be the nominee but stated he would continue to campaign! There is something pathological in that as he would be spending a great deal of money for personal aggrandizement. He has it is reported 9 million dollars. He could help America by donating to Democrat down ballot candidates but since he is not a real Democrat and only used the Party to further his own ambition he won't donate a penny to help reshape Congress. Also he is spending a great deal of America's treasury on himself by having security provided by the government as a candidate for POTUS!
7
If the NYT had published an op-ed like this months ago, urging Clinton(s) to lead and heed the calls of Sanders and his supporters to back increasing the minimum wage to $15 and adopting campaign finance as well as Wall Street reforms, we might find ourselves in a different place today. But the NYT has their head in the sand as much as the Clinton campaign. The reality is that other than paying some lip service to his messaging, the DNC overall and HRC specifically have done little to walk the talk and adopt Sander's revolution as a cornerstone of taking back the Democrat party so we can tell them apart again from the Republicans. That's what a handful of Dem congressional reps tried to do this week, and Andrew Rosenthal's takeaway is not the only way to read the tea leaves of what may result from their action in the end. Want Sanders' supporters to show up and vote in November? Try following their lead and instead of ending their sit-in, mobilize thousands of them to get in buses to D.C. and join them on the Capitol steps. No one in the Dem party can muster that kind of rallying cry right now like Bernie and it's time to wake-up and smell the Brexit-like roses, America. Most voters do mot like the choices offered by the political class on either side of the aisle. They want to see revolution and leadership and Hillary Clinton won't do.
12
"Mean old Hillary?" I guess some slick facetiousness is meant to occlude the fact that she admires Henry Kissinger and considers him a mentor. This vile war criminal who murdered by decree is a disgrace to anything but the lust for power, or those who confuse shrewdness with wisdom.
No fan of his can expect my vote.
No fan of his can expect my vote.
8
Mr. Rosenthal--You believe your patronizing tone will direct Sanders and his supporters? As he and we have said for months, the fight will continue to the convention. The platform you say is worthless is a slap in our face as it is all we have to focus on in a choice of tweedledee and tweedledum. Super delegates and open elections are also on the table and they are no small thing. Polarization of wealth and melting of the polar regions is also no small thing and we still do not see the Democratic Party or the NYT concerned. It is your job to show us concessions if you want our favor.
15
One way for the corporate media to encourage Bernie Sanders supporters to come out and vote for Hillary is to stop pressuring Bernie to get out of the race.
14
"I don't agree with a lot of what Trump says. But he won't owe anybody. What you see is what you get," according to one likely Trump voter.
The vast and amazing ability of people to ignore the truth when it is not only staring them in the face, but punching them in the face, wrestling them to the ground, taking their wallet, and leaving them for dead, astonishes me.
Trump. Has. No. Money. To. Campaign. !!!.
Just where do these voters who think Trump is independent, will be independent, will take not money from anyone, just where exactly do they think campaign funding will come from? The lottery?
Trump has already made deals with Paul Ryan. He has already pledged to name a conservative justice. He needs GOP funding and the GOP fundraising machine. That makes him beholden to GOP donors. That means he will owe a lot of people.
Folks, as Ann Landers used to wisely say, wake up and smell the coffee. We don't have an independent candidate in the race, and given how much it costs to run, we never will.
ALL. The. Candidates. Are. In debt. To. Someone.
It is our job to figure out who, and for how much.
The vast and amazing ability of people to ignore the truth when it is not only staring them in the face, but punching them in the face, wrestling them to the ground, taking their wallet, and leaving them for dead, astonishes me.
Trump. Has. No. Money. To. Campaign. !!!.
Just where do these voters who think Trump is independent, will be independent, will take not money from anyone, just where exactly do they think campaign funding will come from? The lottery?
Trump has already made deals with Paul Ryan. He has already pledged to name a conservative justice. He needs GOP funding and the GOP fundraising machine. That makes him beholden to GOP donors. That means he will owe a lot of people.
Folks, as Ann Landers used to wisely say, wake up and smell the coffee. We don't have an independent candidate in the race, and given how much it costs to run, we never will.
ALL. The. Candidates. Are. In debt. To. Someone.
It is our job to figure out who, and for how much.
5
Mr. Rosenthal, your argument does not hold water.
You cite urgency as the reason 45% of Sanders' supporters (not ready to support Clinton) should now indicate their support of her. At best, they would consider that voting for the lesser evil, which is precisely the rationale you offer. Yet, people vote for the lesser evil at the last minute, not before a convention and 4+ months before an election
You try to shame Sanders by comparing him to another authentic, progressive hero - John Lewis. That is misguided as Sanders' supporters know him to also be an authentic progressive. Clinton, not so much
The ball is really in her court, not Sanders', to decide whether she will embrace enough of his principles and policies to gain his enthusiastic support. Yet she refuses to commit and appears to be triangulating which further re-enforces the impression that she lacks authenticity and that she will shift to the right of center after the convention
She may be the one pursuing an obsolete political strategy - believing the voter pool is aligned along a continuum and that your end of the continuum will vote for you even though you move toward the other end of the continuum during the general election.
Clinton has wasted a lot of time and failed to persuade Sanders to support her. He must be wondering what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul? Not much appears to be his answer as he waits to see if she will be a progressive or the lesser evil
You cite urgency as the reason 45% of Sanders' supporters (not ready to support Clinton) should now indicate their support of her. At best, they would consider that voting for the lesser evil, which is precisely the rationale you offer. Yet, people vote for the lesser evil at the last minute, not before a convention and 4+ months before an election
You try to shame Sanders by comparing him to another authentic, progressive hero - John Lewis. That is misguided as Sanders' supporters know him to also be an authentic progressive. Clinton, not so much
The ball is really in her court, not Sanders', to decide whether she will embrace enough of his principles and policies to gain his enthusiastic support. Yet she refuses to commit and appears to be triangulating which further re-enforces the impression that she lacks authenticity and that she will shift to the right of center after the convention
She may be the one pursuing an obsolete political strategy - believing the voter pool is aligned along a continuum and that your end of the continuum will vote for you even though you move toward the other end of the continuum during the general election.
Clinton has wasted a lot of time and failed to persuade Sanders to support her. He must be wondering what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul? Not much appears to be his answer as he waits to see if she will be a progressive or the lesser evil
15
The corporate media crowned Hillary as the Democrat nominee. Surely, the corporate media can ram her into the Oval Office.
The best Bernie could do is say to vote for Hillary because she's not Trump. Hold your nose and vote for the lesser of two evils. We all know Hillary will be just another four years of Obama. She won't fight for us like Bernie would. She can't do anything to offend Wall Street. She won't fight for working men and women. There's a reason she never released those transcripts of her speeches to Wall Street.
The best Bernie could do is say to vote for Hillary because she's not Trump. Hold your nose and vote for the lesser of two evils. We all know Hillary will be just another four years of Obama. She won't fight for us like Bernie would. She can't do anything to offend Wall Street. She won't fight for working men and women. There's a reason she never released those transcripts of her speeches to Wall Street.
10
Mr. Sanders has become what he started out to be, a protest candidate like Ralph Nader, a spoiler. Here in the real world we have a two party system and a two person race. You can't oppose the racist charlatan on the Republican line without pulling the lever for Mrs. Clinton on the Democratic line.
10
The NY Times has been consistently dismissive of Sanders, and this piece is no exception. The telltale sign that Mr. Rosenthal, a fine editorialist, doesn't get the true significance of the senator' extraordinary appeal is his repeated use of the phrase "the Sanders crowd," implying that the Sanders supporters are nothing more than a fringe group, an aberration not to be taken seriously, and not millions of Americans who are fed up with politics as usual, the catering to the wealthy and establishment interests. Would he refer to Clinton's supporters as "the Clinton crowd?"
15
The longer Bernie waits to support Hillary (if he does so at all) the fewer of his supporters who will come out and vote for her in November. Nothing but just another angry old white man who can't accept that he got beat by a woman.
7
The New York Times' steady drumbeat of condescention toward an eminently decent man who has earned the respect of millions is getting tiresome. Sanders is not going to be a spoiler. He is going to support Clinton in the end, as are the vast majority of his supporters. But you know what? It's not up the the Times to dictate to Sanders the timing of his concession, how he chooses to spend his substantial political capital, or anything else for that matter. Clinton is going to beat Trump in a landslide, with the help of millions of people who voted for Sanders in the primaries. And she's going to do it in spite of, not because of, the Times' complete lack of journalistic integrity in their coverage of Sanders.
10
Hillary, and sadly Obama, are on the wrong side of history. Bernie's vision is the future of a just, equitable, peace loving and green friendly view of the planet. Too bad people like Andrew are stuck in status quo sludge.
15
Long term, the best thing Bernie could do for this country is apologize to his supporters for leading them to believe he was gonna get them free college educations.
11
Why should he apologize? Con artists don't apologize to their marks. The marks often apologize to the con artists.
(The old "Racket Squad" on t.v. years ago showed how reluctant the duped are to admit they've been duped. They defend the confidence man who swindled them. Too embarrassed to face the truth.)
(The old "Racket Squad" on t.v. years ago showed how reluctant the duped are to admit they've been duped. They defend the confidence man who swindled them. Too embarrassed to face the truth.)
6
I'm a Sanders supporter who is voting for Clinto on lesser evil grounds, but articles like this and enthusiastic Clinton supporters in general miss the point--there are real problems with the Clinton wing of the Democratic Party and it's not just distrust of Clinton herself, but the set of ideas she stands for. She is for the misnamed free trade agreements, which are really about giving power to corporations. She changes her position while campaigning, but her thinking stems from the 90's anti- liberal shift in the Democratic Party that brought her husband into the WH. Tom Friedman is the NYT representative of this viewpoint. She is reflexively militaristic, only apologizing for her Iraq vote when it was a clear political albatross hung on her neck. I hope people vote against Trump, but if she has difficulties it's not because Sanders doesn't wave a magic wand and force his supporters to vote for her. It's because of her ideology.
8
I believe there is only one way for Clinton to gain support and stability for the party and bring the Sander's folks with her.
She must offer Bernie the VP.
It's up to him to sway yes or no.
She must offer Bernie the VP.
It's up to him to sway yes or no.
1
Why would anyone vote for that angry, lazy, dishonest, old man to be a heartbeat away from the presidency?
(He wants it desperately, of course.)
(He wants it desperately, of course.)
9
What Rosenthal and others of his 'realist' camp don't want to think about is that Clinton is a dreadful campaigner with a lot of baggage, and if Trump gets elected they will share a good part of the blame. That said, I'll put a clothespin on my nose and vote for Clinton, and I'll urge others to do so as well. For one thing, the Supreme Court is too important to leave to the Republicans.
5
The Democrats have a historic opportunity. The Republicans are in disarray and there is a real possibility of schism. Many of their voters will not vote for Trump and they hate Hillary so they will probably stay home on election day. This means not only a loss for Trump but weakness at the state and local levels.
If the Democrats do nothing else this fall it should be a heavy push to get their supporters to the polls. In these comment sections I see a constant barrage of dissatisfaction about our government, well there is now an opportunity to make a major change in how our government is run. Get out and vote, get all your friends to vote, and the people down the block. The opposition is in disarray and now is the time to push forward. VOTE!
If the Democrats do nothing else this fall it should be a heavy push to get their supporters to the polls. In these comment sections I see a constant barrage of dissatisfaction about our government, well there is now an opportunity to make a major change in how our government is run. Get out and vote, get all your friends to vote, and the people down the block. The opposition is in disarray and now is the time to push forward. VOTE!
63
I, for one, am so, so tired of Clinton supporters telling me what I, a Sanders supporter, "need" to do. They've been doing it since Bernie started to run, and it's condescending and wearying. What Clinton needs to do, if she wants my puny little vote, is to earn it by espousing enough policies I support, and by convincing me that she is not actually in the pockets of the corporations; if she does those things, I'll vote for her.
24
I believe that the behavior of Paul Ryan (shutting off the campers, meetings in the middle of the night) is indeed steps toward oppression and tyranny. Comparing it to the actions of the Soviets and the Chinese is fair.
4
Let me just chime in to reinforce what several of the comments below have already made clear: There are real issues on which Sanders supporters disagree with Clinton. If she wants their votes, she will have to make actual policy concessions. She'd better make them now and in a way that does not sound grudging. By the way, these concessions will cost the oligarchs MONEY. If they are unwilling to take this hit, they are playing with fire. Just look at the Brexit vote, which is just a first step down a dark path.
6
You forget that young people show up for presidential elections. Progressives need to realize that social policies are just as important as economic policy. Which is the major difference between a Mrs. Clinton and Trump or any Republican. In a perfect world we would have one democratic candidate that fits all. But we don't and to sit out does not move a progressive agenda forward. What progressives need to do is be a part of the process not sit on the sidelines. As for those "progressives" who would vote for Trump, you should stop calling yourselves progressives because obviously you are confused and need to go educate yourselves on what a progressive is.
5
Here’s what this Sanders’ supporter thinks. Yes, Hillary is better than Trump. But if Hillary is elected, I want her to fear every single day that she won’t be reelected unless she moves the Sanders’ agenda forward. I don’t want just some words on a platform. I want to see her actively working towards a better life with better jobs, affordable heath care and no debt for the youth, poor and working class of the US. I don’t want to see any more policy that skews towards the 1%, in fact on taxes and Wall Street regulation, I want it reversed. And I don’t want one single military misadventure. If Bernie staying out there is part of the kindling we’re going to need to hold her feet to the fire, I’m right behind him.
9
Sanders is not conceding because he can't turn away from the attention he is receiving. It's clear that he is suffering from a messiah complex.
9
Oh I thought Hillary was mother goddess savior, her cultish followers claim only a woman can be president.
6
I don't believe that Sanders supporters that say they will vote for Trump were committed Sanders supporters. You'd have to flip your belief values and character 180 degrees to go from supporting a man of such high ethics and character as Bernie Sanders to supporting a con man and bigot like Trump. I just don't believe it.
9
Stop. Please. Trump didn't invent bigotry and racism. For those who haven't had to notice, both have existed since the founding of this country. Some of us have lived it every day of our lives despite being told that our society is "color blind" "post-racial", etc., ad nauseam. The injustice system is still unjust. Black men and boys will still be demonized from Obama to the homeless man in the street. My son is still going to be targeted by police. So just stop. All those things you are afraid of have been there all along. You just looked the other way. And electing Hillary isn't going to do a darn thing about it.
Let Sen. Sanders make his way to the convention, state his case and at least TRY to pull the USA into modernity.
Let Sen. Sanders make his way to the convention, state his case and at least TRY to pull the USA into modernity.
15
It has been clear for months that too many American voters are entranced by and desirous of a TV star candidate. It reflects poorly on them that they seem to need a "rah-rah" response within themselves or they will disqualify someone who nonetheless supports their interests. We should call this the "P-out-y" vote.
4
Change doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't happen by decree. Against the oath of opposition it barely happens at all.
Hillary shares many of the same goals as Bernie Sanders.
He should explain what he already knows, that revolution must work through process, it can only be incremental. That process won't change, it's how our government works and it's the only way he's been able to get anything done throughout his career.
Cool your jets, the battle will always be in the trenches and it will be a lot easier to win with a Democrat at the helm and a 5-4 Court.
Hillary shares many of the same goals as Bernie Sanders.
He should explain what he already knows, that revolution must work through process, it can only be incremental. That process won't change, it's how our government works and it's the only way he's been able to get anything done throughout his career.
Cool your jets, the battle will always be in the trenches and it will be a lot easier to win with a Democrat at the helm and a 5-4 Court.
5
Yet another Op Ed demanding that Sanders get in line so that his supporters will commit to one pathological liar over another. I often wonder if Sanders had come out on top during the primaries if Ms. Clinton's supporters would be haranguing everyone to vote for Sanders based on a 'Trumpian' fear quotient? Somehow I have my doubts.
What I do know with great certainty is that every time I read another piece like this suggesting we must acquire a certain resolve out of fear, every time I read the implicit suggestion that Sanders' failure to alter his current course could or would somehow make him responsible for a Trump win, I redouble my resolve to never, ever vote for Hillary Clinton. Thank you Mr. Rosenthal for helping me see that light.
What I do know with great certainty is that every time I read another piece like this suggesting we must acquire a certain resolve out of fear, every time I read the implicit suggestion that Sanders' failure to alter his current course could or would somehow make him responsible for a Trump win, I redouble my resolve to never, ever vote for Hillary Clinton. Thank you Mr. Rosenthal for helping me see that light.
13
I really want Hillary to choose either - Elizabeth Warren or Cory Booker for her VP - if, she does this -- she will be uniting all the Hillary people, all the Sanders people, all the Independents that are soft leaning Republicans but detest Trump.
Also - get real people - Trump is dangerous for all of us. Bernie knows this - so why is he not rolling up his sleeves to help the Democrats win the Presidency unless it is only about Bernie - which would be really sad.
Bernie is beginning to sound like a whiny resentful loser - when he could continue his huge winning accomplishment into and even greater reality by doing everything he can to help Hillary win - they agree on 90% of everything!
Also - get real people - Trump is dangerous for all of us. Bernie knows this - so why is he not rolling up his sleeves to help the Democrats win the Presidency unless it is only about Bernie - which would be really sad.
Bernie is beginning to sound like a whiny resentful loser - when he could continue his huge winning accomplishment into and even greater reality by doing everything he can to help Hillary win - they agree on 90% of everything!
8
By the way, Clinton gave $17 million of that so-called "special interest" money to charity. She gave it away to good causes. All conveniently forgotten by BernieBots.
15
NYT pundits, slavishly in step with the Clinton campaign, are laboring under the misapprehension she and Sanders are essentially on the same side. Nothing could be further from the truth. She represents the antithesis of everything Sanders threw his hat in the ring to combat: political corruption, entitlement, pay to play, warmongering, elite contempt for laws and constraints, willing political enabling of inequality and corporate excess. She's inauthentic, unprincipled and has a disturbing taste for violence projected abroad by our military in support of stupid or unobtainable goals.
She is the enemy. She represents the forces of conservatism, stasis and dysfunction. I can't articulate this any clearer. How is the current status quo in this country any worse for the broad swathe of struggling citizenry paycheck to paycheck than a putative Trump presidency? It's time to push back and dismantle the edifice. At every level.
She is the enemy. She represents the forces of conservatism, stasis and dysfunction. I can't articulate this any clearer. How is the current status quo in this country any worse for the broad swathe of struggling citizenry paycheck to paycheck than a putative Trump presidency? It's time to push back and dismantle the edifice. At every level.
10
Bernie should ask Hillary for one (and only one) thing in order to garner his immediate and full-throated support. That one thing is Hillary's commitment to run for re-election in 2020 without Super PACs, corporate sponsorship, and other big-money funding. Bernie has proven that in can be done and Hillary needs to acknowledge this achievement by manner of a personal commitment.
Instead, we hear about how Elizabeth Warren can't be the VP pick because Bill Clinton is expected to co-host a five-figure fund-raiser in New York in August with the vice-presidential nominee. Well, Bernie can't enthusiastically endorse Hillary for the same reason. Because events such as those are against everything Bernie believes in, and give the appearance of being bought-off.
Bernie still should campaign against Trump regardless. But in order to be strongly for Hillary, Hillary needs to make a firm commitment that she is willing to be dependent only on the people for fundraising, and not just on her buddies who can afford the five figure event with Bill in August.
Of course it will never happen. I was for Bernie and will be voting for Hillary, but with so much nose-holding that my nose will end up broken. It is all about the Supreme Court and avoiding a Trumpocalypse, but not at all about Hillary. Hillary could change that will a firm commitment to give up big money for 2020.
Instead, we hear about how Elizabeth Warren can't be the VP pick because Bill Clinton is expected to co-host a five-figure fund-raiser in New York in August with the vice-presidential nominee. Well, Bernie can't enthusiastically endorse Hillary for the same reason. Because events such as those are against everything Bernie believes in, and give the appearance of being bought-off.
Bernie still should campaign against Trump regardless. But in order to be strongly for Hillary, Hillary needs to make a firm commitment that she is willing to be dependent only on the people for fundraising, and not just on her buddies who can afford the five figure event with Bill in August.
Of course it will never happen. I was for Bernie and will be voting for Hillary, but with so much nose-holding that my nose will end up broken. It is all about the Supreme Court and avoiding a Trumpocalypse, but not at all about Hillary. Hillary could change that will a firm commitment to give up big money for 2020.
7
Hillary Clinton has no one but herself and Bill Clinton to blame. Bill Clinton turned the Democratic Party's back on working people and focused on currying favor with Wall Street/Silicone Valley. He destroyed AFDC, passed NAFTA, created dsastrous changes in criminal justice, deregulated the banking system . . . the list goes on. There is no way Hillary Clinton can separate herself from those policies. It's a basic disconnect from the party's New Deal base of common, working people. Yes, she is better than Trump, but your suggestion that Sanders supporters should naturally default to Clinton shows a basic lack of understanding of the economic history of the United States starting with Bill Clinton and continuing right through Barak Obama. No doubt about it, the party has held on with social issues like LBGT and women's rights and gun control. But there are wealthy gays and women on Wall Street and in Silicone Valley for whom that poses no problem. But just start pushing hard on economic issues and those people are with Democrats not so much. We really don't have to see the transcripts of those speeches to know what she said to Goldman Sachs. It's just the unfortunate reality that the populist mantle doesn't fall too naturally on Hillary's shoulders and never will. There is much more cause to be worried about Donald Trump than you realize. You are probably one of those who didn't see the Brexit vote coming either. Stop the Bernie bashing. He's the real deal.
18
This parochial attitude on the part of the New York Times shows that it doesn’t understand the country as well as it thinks it does. For months, Senator Sanders has said that he will stay in the race to the convention; he also said he would back the Democratic Party nominee. But, apparently, this is not good enough for the Times.
He is trying to shift the Democratic Party back to its roots – the welfare of the working class and the poor and away from corporate control of the political system. And because he refuses to quit, the Times is insisting he drop out and genuflect to people like Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and their ilk, who literally have made millions of dollars for themselves through manipulating a corrupt political system that long ago forgot about the rest of us. Why is the Times so terrified of his message?
But we, the poor, the workers, the students, and the elderly, really understand what’s happening and to paraphrase that iconic speech from Paddy Chayefsky’s “Network,” we are “mad as hell and we’re not going to take this anymore!”
Be warned.
He is trying to shift the Democratic Party back to its roots – the welfare of the working class and the poor and away from corporate control of the political system. And because he refuses to quit, the Times is insisting he drop out and genuflect to people like Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and their ilk, who literally have made millions of dollars for themselves through manipulating a corrupt political system that long ago forgot about the rest of us. Why is the Times so terrified of his message?
But we, the poor, the workers, the students, and the elderly, really understand what’s happening and to paraphrase that iconic speech from Paddy Chayefsky’s “Network,” we are “mad as hell and we’re not going to take this anymore!”
Be warned.
12
Mr. Rosenthal, Hillary Clinton is under a FBI criminal investigation. Your argument is build on the presumption that she won't be indicted, although she clearly violated three federal acts; there is also ample evidence of a conspiracy to rig the primaries with the DNC leadership. well before the Iowa caucus, as seen in the DNC docs leaked by Guccifer 2.
Do you have any information that we don't have saying that she will not be indicted? We'd love to see it.
If not, why should any Sanders supporter or anyone vote for someone who is above the law?
Do you have any information that we don't have saying that she will not be indicted? We'd love to see it.
If not, why should any Sanders supporter or anyone vote for someone who is above the law?
5
Speaking such truths to the Sanders crowd is like talking to the wall. Mention 1968 and 2000, and their eyes glaze over, since for many of them history only extends back as far as the junior prom or their last frat party. True believers on the left are every bit as factually challenged, self-righteous, and dangerous as their counterparts on the extreme right.
3
Sanders supporters who are too noble to vote Hillary: doing their part on the quest to make back alley abortions, and attendant sepsis, a reality for those too poor to pay for medical abortions in another country.
3
Would you vote for a person just because he or she is white - or black or brown? That's bigotry.
Would you vote for a person just that person is a woman? That's bigotry as well, and just like voting for only whites, it's really stupid, because it doesn't take into account who the person is, what that person will do once in office, and whether you can trust the person to be honest and truthful, and work for the good of all Americans.
I expect Hillary Clinton to win the Presidency, and expect to have to suffer through not just the obnoxious gloating of her husband, but also a massive celebration of the fact that finally we have a woman President. Bring out the trumpets! We'll have finally caught up with much of the rest of the world that has had female leaders. What's important to me, though, is what happens in the days and weeks, months and years thereafter. Based on what we know about her, will Hillary Clinton be a good President? That's the real question going into the November election.
Would you vote for a person just that person is a woman? That's bigotry as well, and just like voting for only whites, it's really stupid, because it doesn't take into account who the person is, what that person will do once in office, and whether you can trust the person to be honest and truthful, and work for the good of all Americans.
I expect Hillary Clinton to win the Presidency, and expect to have to suffer through not just the obnoxious gloating of her husband, but also a massive celebration of the fact that finally we have a woman President. Bring out the trumpets! We'll have finally caught up with much of the rest of the world that has had female leaders. What's important to me, though, is what happens in the days and weeks, months and years thereafter. Based on what we know about her, will Hillary Clinton be a good President? That's the real question going into the November election.
5
Every new stage of this election year proves that Bernie Sanders lacks insight, depth of character and doesn't have the vision to lead anything but attacks on others against whom he can work up excited, hyperbolic broadsides.
Sanders is a student of socialism and the political culture of grievances, but has very limited range of vision to see anything outside those two areas of his focus.
Sanders is a student of socialism and the political culture of grievances, but has very limited range of vision to see anything outside those two areas of his focus.
8
I shouldn't have to vote for Hillary because she's the better of two evils. She needs to EARN my vote. And as she subscribes to Reagan-era Neoliberal economic policies, and Neoconservative foreign policy, I'm really not inclined to vote for her.
I can't survive another 4-8 years of Neoliberal economic policy. I worked hard through undergrad and my graduate program - 60 hours a week. I'm still in a ton of student loan debt. What will Hillary do to help my situation - a situation that is shared by many in my generation? What will Hillary do to restore wages to levels that they SHOULD be at, instead of continuing a 30+ year stagnation, while the 1% reaps the rewards?
Sorry, but being better than Trump isn't worth my vote. My dog drops a pile every morning that's better than Trump - doesn't mean I want it to be president.
I can't survive another 4-8 years of Neoliberal economic policy. I worked hard through undergrad and my graduate program - 60 hours a week. I'm still in a ton of student loan debt. What will Hillary do to help my situation - a situation that is shared by many in my generation? What will Hillary do to restore wages to levels that they SHOULD be at, instead of continuing a 30+ year stagnation, while the 1% reaps the rewards?
Sorry, but being better than Trump isn't worth my vote. My dog drops a pile every morning that's better than Trump - doesn't mean I want it to be president.
10
This is happening because young liberals don't define themselves in support of something but in opposition to something. For instance, nobody is 'for' any kind of specific policy designed to combat racism, they are simply 'against' racism. They are 'against ' wall street. The only things they are for were formulated by Sanders as opposition to the status quo. The result is a dearth of ability to formulate hope when not confronted with violent and abrupt change. When you define yourself in opposition, you must remain so even if it makes no sense, be it against hillary, or the establishment
6
Representative John Lewis led a sit-in "to express outrage at the Republicans' blocking of even the most obvious forms of gun regulation." Bernie Sanders voted against the Brady Act and other forms of gun regulation when the issues came up in Congress. He joined the Republicans on this issue.
Sanders is--in effect--fighting against the election of Hillary Clinton by remaining the the race for nomination. Sanders calls himself a socialist, but he is really functioning as a rightist.
Sanders is--in effect--fighting against the election of Hillary Clinton by remaining the the race for nomination. Sanders calls himself a socialist, but he is really functioning as a rightist.
5
You people still don't get it do you? At this point the Sanders "campaign" is transitioning into a "movement" that is focused only nominally on this election, but increasingly beyond. As he has said, if you would bother to listen, is that his goal is to transform politics and economics in the US, and his current method is to do so by transforming the Democratic Party. As long as the vehicle for change is the Democratic Party, he is very unlikely to campaign for Clinton as she represents the worst form of establishment status quo in the party. That is exactly what he is trying to root out by restoring the democratic party to the people while inspiring new participants to run for office. What Sanders is doing is not politics as usual, so you should stop trying to fit it into the normal establishment box. He has now said he will vote for Clinton, and he has said he will work hard to defeat Trump. What he will likely not do is betray his supporters by blithely throwing his unquestioning support behind Clinton, the Democratic Party as it currently stands, or unconditionally bargaining for some glorified post within the party as some form of remuneration for his support. That is the cynical politics that Sanders supporters have become disillusioned with and that is not what he is about.
11
I don't know why it is important for Sanders to drop out. He has said clearly and emphatically that he will do everything possible to make sure Donald Trump does not become president. That has to help Hillary, so what is the big deal with dropping out and endorsing her?
6
Thanks for pointing out that John Lewis, not Bernie Sanders, is the real deal, and that income inequality, while an extremely important issue, isn't the only issue.
Sanders shouldn't be milking anything. If he can't work tirelessly on urging his supporters to support Hillary against Trump, he should just disappear into the wilds of Vermont.
Sanders shouldn't be milking anything. If he can't work tirelessly on urging his supporters to support Hillary against Trump, he should just disappear into the wilds of Vermont.
6
Oh, take it easy Mr. Rosenthal. The unity process is proceeding. What is missing are signals from the Clinton camp that they are willing to adopt some (certainly doesn't have to be all) of the policies that more than 40% of the primary voters embraced and that almost certainly are not anathemas to the core Clinton supporters. Clinton supporters voted FOR HER, and not against Sanders' policies (with the exception of gun issues). Clinton supporters I am sure would be happy with $15/hr, free public higher ed, a $1T green-jobs infrastructure stimulus, and a carbon tax. Why not adopt 3 of those?
You only have to look to today's news from Britain to see the peril of ignoring the needs, hopes and desires of large swaths of the electorate. Please, Clinton folks: budge!
You only have to look to today's news from Britain to see the peril of ignoring the needs, hopes and desires of large swaths of the electorate. Please, Clinton folks: budge!
7
Bernie has lost touch with reality- not that he was ever within arms length. He doesn't know when he's won. As each day passes, he becomes less and less relevant. Many of his ideas to reform the primary process are opposed by the Congressional Black Caucus- he doesn't win that one.
And this Susan Sarandon idea that voting for Trump will bring the revolution faster. If you live in Hollywood and have all the money you'll ever need, I guess you can indulge yourself in such fantasy. For the rest of us, having Republicans in charge of all three branches is the end of life as we know it. Tax cuts for the rich, the end of the safety net, guns everywhere, restrictions on voting, religion in schools. Once they have all the power, we are lost.
And this Susan Sarandon idea that voting for Trump will bring the revolution faster. If you live in Hollywood and have all the money you'll ever need, I guess you can indulge yourself in such fantasy. For the rest of us, having Republicans in charge of all three branches is the end of life as we know it. Tax cuts for the rich, the end of the safety net, guns everywhere, restrictions on voting, religion in schools. Once they have all the power, we are lost.
8
I am a Sanders supporter who will gladly vote Trump, if sanders won't be on the ballot. None of the Sanders supporters I know will vote for Hillary.
The primaries were rigged before they even started and during - see proof in the DNC docs leaked by Gucciffer 2 - and there was massive election fraud.
I don't agree that with Trump, I'll get bigotry and fear. I'll get common sense. and a man who speaks his mind, as opposed to Hillary Clinton who always speaks like a lawyer and who is the most dangerous and deceptive and hawkish and crooked politician since Dick Cheney.
The primaries were rigged before they even started and during - see proof in the DNC docs leaked by Gucciffer 2 - and there was massive election fraud.
I don't agree that with Trump, I'll get bigotry and fear. I'll get common sense. and a man who speaks his mind, as opposed to Hillary Clinton who always speaks like a lawyer and who is the most dangerous and deceptive and hawkish and crooked politician since Dick Cheney.
31
Bernie imagines he is leading a revolution. Instead he is blindly missing the fact that there is an ugly, angry storm front moving in from the right. It has hit Britain, which is now headed toward a new Dark Age. Yesterday's absurd Supreme Court immigration ruling shows that it is looming here as well. The shifting demographics of the American political parties will ultimately lead to the revolution that Bernie so dearly wants. In the meantime, Bernie must not underestimate the tenacity with which the political right, in Congress and in the judiciary, will do whatever it can to cling to power. He needs to loudly and strongly cry out against the forces of Trumpism and get on board the Hillary train NOW!
8
No. The Brexit vote shows that Hillary needs to move left and join Bernie Sanders in his push for fairness for working people who have been ignored and exploited to the point that they don't trust people who won't tell us what they promised Goldman Sachs in those high-dollar speeches. epublican-Lite is no better than David Cameron.
Bernie has said he will vote for Hillary. Hillary needs to include Bernie's progressive policies in her platform, not demand unconditional surrender that will leave her free to do Wall Street's bidding.
Bernie has said he will vote for Hillary. Hillary needs to include Bernie's progressive policies in her platform, not demand unconditional surrender that will leave her free to do Wall Street's bidding.
6
Makes no difference. In fact it may be better for things to get worse....a lot worse. FDR's New Deal was born of the Great Depressions not from some wonks building policy. When the Great Rescession of 2008 hit, many saw this as the time Progressive Agendas would be advanced. Any political or historical junkie could tell you that won't happen. They can save the banks and move on. If you want Progressivism, let the Republicans have their way for a while until they do some really serious damage. That way, Democrats who are in it mainly for themselves, such as Bilary (that's not a typo) can be moved aside along with the Republicans.
1
In my opinion, America needs Bernie to stay in the race, and the Democrats need to go into the convention with an open mind.
The results of the Brexit vote should give Democrats a good case of what the British call the collywobbles. Just because Hillary is up a few points in the polls right now doesn't mean she can sustain a lead.
Hillary is running a fear based campaign, similar to Cameron's. It is a losing strategy precisely because too many people distrust everything that their national political elites - both left leaning and right leaning - say.
The only question that is important is "who is the best candidate against Trump". My guess will be it will be Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders.
Please Democrats!!.....stay open minded going into the convention!! Too much depends on it.
The results of the Brexit vote should give Democrats a good case of what the British call the collywobbles. Just because Hillary is up a few points in the polls right now doesn't mean she can sustain a lead.
Hillary is running a fear based campaign, similar to Cameron's. It is a losing strategy precisely because too many people distrust everything that their national political elites - both left leaning and right leaning - say.
The only question that is important is "who is the best candidate against Trump". My guess will be it will be Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders.
Please Democrats!!.....stay open minded going into the convention!! Too much depends on it.
5
Abe Markman
June 21 at 3:54pm · New York, NY ·
..
I agree but the Bernie revolution should transform into a tactical Hillary watchdog presence and a strategic movement progressives. This will only happen if Hillary becomes President.
--- Sanders aimed at the right target, the 1%. Nevertheless, the movement conservatives starting in 1964 steadily moved the target further and further beyond range. They emasculated the unions, took over legislatures, created safe districts for Tea Party Republicans, took over Congress, deregulated banks, and enhanced bonding between the Republicans and the rulers of the economy. If Bernie with increased leverage in the Senate and if his followers start an "Occupy the Future" movement, the target would come closer and closer into range and great and steady progress should result. The new Occupy movement would have to be, however, well organized with open, identifiable, leadership, structure, and internal discipline. Then this precious dot in the universe may have a chance to remain a global nest for flora, fauna and humankind.
June 21 at 3:54pm · New York, NY ·
..
I agree but the Bernie revolution should transform into a tactical Hillary watchdog presence and a strategic movement progressives. This will only happen if Hillary becomes President.
--- Sanders aimed at the right target, the 1%. Nevertheless, the movement conservatives starting in 1964 steadily moved the target further and further beyond range. They emasculated the unions, took over legislatures, created safe districts for Tea Party Republicans, took over Congress, deregulated banks, and enhanced bonding between the Republicans and the rulers of the economy. If Bernie with increased leverage in the Senate and if his followers start an "Occupy the Future" movement, the target would come closer and closer into range and great and steady progress should result. The new Occupy movement would have to be, however, well organized with open, identifiable, leadership, structure, and internal discipline. Then this precious dot in the universe may have a chance to remain a global nest for flora, fauna and humankind.
2
Those of us who voted for Bernie sanders believe that his message of justice and equity goes to the heart of our countries -- and the world's social problems. Hillary is deaf to this message. She must adopt this cause and propose real solutions. We don't want a candidate seeking to do what seems possible but our society needs. Bernie, trump, brexit, economic refugees are all evidence of the issue. Hillary, wake up. I want to support you wholeheartedly, not just because you are not Trump.
7
It is interesting to read these comments; instead of taking Trump at his word, some of Bernie's people would vote for him instead of Hillary who voted the same way as Bernie 93 percent of the time in the two years they shared in the Senate. Also, after joking about appointing his sister to the supreme court, Trump supplied a list which commentators in a NYT article said; “The list includes some of the most extreme conservatives on the federal bench today,” she said. “Their opinions demonstrate open hostility to Americans’ rights and liberties, including reproductive justice and environmental, consumer and worker protections. They have ruled consistently in favor of the powerful over everyone else. They would move the needle even further to the right on the Supreme Court.”
You don't know what you would get with Trump, maybe only infomercials like his latest boondoggle to Scotland? Trump has soundly rejected minorities of any kind? In any case, It is hard to see how thinking Bernieites could choose Trump?
You don't know what you would get with Trump, maybe only infomercials like his latest boondoggle to Scotland? Trump has soundly rejected minorities of any kind? In any case, It is hard to see how thinking Bernieites could choose Trump?
10
Sanders has gone from a selfless revolutionary to a selfish politician. It is way past time for him to step aside and encourage his many followers to join Clinton in trying to stop Trump from the presidency. Just because Trump says he is for all the people, anybody with a brain can tell he is only in this for himself. How can any of Sanders followers even think of voting for Trump who would probably destroy our economy and our reputation even worse than George W Bush did?
9
..."and they have had a big effect on Clinton this year, pushing her to adopt some of their positions."
I am a Sanders supporter who will support, albeit half-heartedly, Hillary Clinton in November. It is half-hearted because, well, I utterly oppose Donald Trump and Republican control of congress, but I have trouble getting behind Hillary because she does not seem to believe in what I believe.
The quoted sentence above actually explains much of this ambivalence I feel for her. Why did Hillary NEED to be pushed into supporting basic Democratic Party ideals? Why wasn't she an advocate of these things in the first place?
There is a very strong feeling on the part of a lot of us progressive Democrats that, in the absence of a Bernie to nip at her heels, she will turn sharply to the right, as her campaign logo arrow indicates. This will leave her, and today's Democratic Party, standing on the political spectrum roughly where the Republican Party stood from the late-'40s through the mid-'70s (absent the McCarthyism). This is NOT what I want for America.
It will leave the working men and women without a voice. This may be better than the voice of Trump and the Republicans shouting at us and sucking all the hope out of our lives, but it is not what we desire.
I am a Sanders supporter who will support, albeit half-heartedly, Hillary Clinton in November. It is half-hearted because, well, I utterly oppose Donald Trump and Republican control of congress, but I have trouble getting behind Hillary because she does not seem to believe in what I believe.
The quoted sentence above actually explains much of this ambivalence I feel for her. Why did Hillary NEED to be pushed into supporting basic Democratic Party ideals? Why wasn't she an advocate of these things in the first place?
There is a very strong feeling on the part of a lot of us progressive Democrats that, in the absence of a Bernie to nip at her heels, she will turn sharply to the right, as her campaign logo arrow indicates. This will leave her, and today's Democratic Party, standing on the political spectrum roughly where the Republican Party stood from the late-'40s through the mid-'70s (absent the McCarthyism). This is NOT what I want for America.
It will leave the working men and women without a voice. This may be better than the voice of Trump and the Republicans shouting at us and sucking all the hope out of our lives, but it is not what we desire.
7
While i had enormous respect for Sanders early on and was please that i would have no problem voting for him if he won the nomination, his actions since losing have shown me that he's a man that is small in nature. So, this will be the real image/legacy he is living for history.
4
Hillary Clinton is a corrupt warmonger who will continue our insane Oil Wars, feed the Pentagon and turn the Government over to her pals on Wall Street.
I don't think Sanders can support that and I know I can't.
I don't think Sanders can support that and I know I can't.
13
Someone needs to have a sit-down and an intervention with Bernie's ego. He has won a lot of respect and admiration for the fight he has fought. He deserves to be heard as the campaign shifts into full election mode. But he needs to get on board the Hillary campaign - if he ain't with her, the message is he's agin her. We will all pay a huge price while he assuages his ego.
6
The spineless Democrats' stunt this week was typically useless. They had control of Congress for four years 2007-10 and barely did a thing to try to pass sensible gun control laws. With cowards like the Democrats, it is hardly worth trying to get rid of NRA tool Republicans. Once in power, Democrats will again stumble and bumble passing a handful of entirely token measures, making such a mess with their PC-dumbed-down pretend "actions," that the Republicans will come roaring back again on a wave of disgust. Both parties have betrayed America too many times. They are past due at history's scrap heap.
5
The problems is: the "super delegate surprise", where surprise part is where voters are omitted from the election process, and are replaced by people who march to party orders. We, the voters, would like to think that our votes count for something more than a waste of paper and time. But party rules, that are not regulated by anyone other in this case democratic party, decided early on that it is Hillary's "turn".
How long are we going to keep trying to believe that we live in a democracy?
How long are we going to keep trying to believe that we live in a democracy?
5
How was it a surprise? Did first-time voters just not do any research into the rules of the DNC or the states with closed primaries? Claiming ignorance is not an excuse.
4
All H-Rod can say is "trust me." Why should anyone do so? She has no answers to anything, but suggests that things just won't be much different under her Administration than they are now. What a limp message, as limp as the "Remain" campaign in the UK.
All the energy in the US presidential sweepstakes has been for Sanders and Trump. The failure of Clinton to energize the American electorate is due to her implicit promise that the processes of globalization and rule by multinational corporations and international financial institutions will continue, with a few bones thrown to the hoi polloi.
The so-called mature Democrats (not the young Sanders supporters) have channeled sophomoric actions - a sit-in. John Lewis has walked the walk from black freedom fighter to black establishment figure. His denial that Sanders had any active role in the 1960s fight for civil rights while supporting Clinton, who supported Goldwater, indicates how low he has sunk.
Clinton has paid lip service to some of Sanders's proposals, such as free tuition and higher minimum wages, but we know that she will not try to implement any of them because her support is at best half hearted. her claim that she can "get things done" is a rhetorical device to obscure that she also can decide what to get done. She represents the Wall Street and multinational corporate elite and one can expect that these interests will be at the forefront of a Clinton (re) Administration.
All the energy in the US presidential sweepstakes has been for Sanders and Trump. The failure of Clinton to energize the American electorate is due to her implicit promise that the processes of globalization and rule by multinational corporations and international financial institutions will continue, with a few bones thrown to the hoi polloi.
The so-called mature Democrats (not the young Sanders supporters) have channeled sophomoric actions - a sit-in. John Lewis has walked the walk from black freedom fighter to black establishment figure. His denial that Sanders had any active role in the 1960s fight for civil rights while supporting Clinton, who supported Goldwater, indicates how low he has sunk.
Clinton has paid lip service to some of Sanders's proposals, such as free tuition and higher minimum wages, but we know that she will not try to implement any of them because her support is at best half hearted. her claim that she can "get things done" is a rhetorical device to obscure that she also can decide what to get done. She represents the Wall Street and multinational corporate elite and one can expect that these interests will be at the forefront of a Clinton (re) Administration.
12
I think the Clinton Camp has read the support for Sanders correctly and they are making efforts to appeal to his supporters. On the other hand, the Sanders Camp has not read Clinton supporters correctly and believe they do not have to appeal to them. As Sanders lingers on the dimmed stage and plans to make the convention difficult for everyone who did not embrace his so-called revolution he needs to realize that after November -- whomever wins -- he will be a footnote, a cipher, because he is playing his cards wrong at this point. John Lewis knows how to stir things up and Sanders could take some tips from Lewis on how to use personal strength, grace, savvy political dealing and street smarts to throw things upside down. Sanders on the other hand is looking more and more like an old crank with a grudge to bear.
9
The election is not till November. Why is it so important for Bernie to endorse HRC now? He is going to the convention with his delegates. He is going to the convention, to speak for the 12 million of us that voted for him. These continued articles slamming him for not endorsing her, and the insulting comments to Bernie and his supporters, is not helping HRC, or her supporters. I will never vote for DT. Will consider voting for HRC, but she needs to win my vote. I worry about her hawkish ways, and questionable commitment to the middle and working classes.It is her job to convince me, not Bernie's job.
5
We the people have a hard decision in November. A vote for Hillary is a vote for small increments in hopefully the right direction. A vote for Trump is a vote to blow up the government. Me, I am going to vote for Hillary mostly because I do not see anything good coming of blowing up the government.
By they way, I gave money to Bernie's campaign. I voted for Bernie in the primary. I just can not see how anyone that supported Bernie could switch to supporting Donald Trump. Hillary isn't perfect, who is?
By they way, I gave money to Bernie's campaign. I voted for Bernie in the primary. I just can not see how anyone that supported Bernie could switch to supporting Donald Trump. Hillary isn't perfect, who is?
4
Why does every NY Times columnist belittle those of us who follow Senator Sanders? Why do they act as though we are children throwing tantrums against Mommy's not letting us go to the park. I don't care if Hillary is the meanest person in the world her economics do not appeal to me. She is the same old same old. She will not change anything and in fact she would have bailed out the banks just like Obama who threw us to the wolves. This is the issue. It s not e-mails or Benghazi or any of the other side issues. We want someone who upholds our economic values and will not accept fraud. We want someone who is not beholden to the elite for their livelihood nor to foreign governments their livelihood. It has nothing to do with meanness, it has to do with our economic health, the economic health of the people not the international non-American elite. So what if Trump becomes president. Maybe that is what we deserve. For so long we put up with the propaganda from the extreme right and have completely devastated the Left. Well maybe now it is the Left's turn. And no Hillary is a centrist at best and really is right of center except on social issues. So go ahead NY Times call us toddlers, call us babies and keep harping on your elitist causes but the People of the US want our government to listen to us instead of the tinkling of the money going into their war chests. We gave the Democrats a chance to come back to us and they failed, so I will not vote Hillary, I will vote Jill!
5
It may be great that Sanders has brought in a lot of young people who have never been interested in politics at all. But, because they have no real experience or understanding of history, logic, of civics, he has been able over the course of the campaign, through innuendo and suggestion, to poison their minds against Clinton. He never mentions how much they have in common. He doesn't seem to care that they have bought into the republican propaganda, because it suited his purposes. So I have somewhat given up on that group helping to defeat Trump.
What I am wondering going forward, is that will his "revolution" start with deep red states who are voting against their own self interests? Or will he try to pick off liberals and progressives who are not as "pure" as he would like? We need votes in Congress in order to accomplish anything. How will he help with this?
What I am wondering going forward, is that will his "revolution" start with deep red states who are voting against their own self interests? Or will he try to pick off liberals and progressives who are not as "pure" as he would like? We need votes in Congress in order to accomplish anything. How will he help with this?
5
To me, the best place for Bernie would be a 50 state campaign for all the down ballot candidates. Bernie emphasized a grass roots revolution. All that is down ballot. Furthermore, the right wing seems ready to abandon Trump and put their money on the House, Senate, and each state. The Dems need Bernie to counter the right wing money.
3
If Clinton has one enduring trait it is not listening unless there is a gun at her head. She will pretend he never existed the minute she can.
I voted for Bernie and sent him money. I was a Democrat for 40 years and left the party the day after the primary. As far as the November election goes it looks like a Republican primary to me, and I don't vote in Republican primaries.
I voted for Bernie and sent him money. I was a Democrat for 40 years and left the party the day after the primary. As far as the November election goes it looks like a Republican primary to me, and I don't vote in Republican primaries.
8
Sanders supporter here. I don't see what he's doing now as campaigning for President. I see it as trying to position himself to be in the best place possible to influence the Democratic platform. I also see it as being respectful of the many people supported him during the primary and why they did so Many of us supported the importance of the ideas he was driving home and forcing into the national conversation.....the disappearance of the middle class, crushing debt, low pay, inequality, etc....
Hillary will be able to win over many of his voters, I believe, if she realizes that it was the ideas we supported,more than the person. Other politicians...an Elizabeth Warren, Sherrod Brown,...could have espoused the same ideas and Sanders supporters would have supported them.
These issues are still important to many people (and elsewhere if you look at what is happening all around the world...) and "business as usual" cannot last. Governments and leaders have to face that the solutions of the 20th century no longer work in the 21st century and many people have been left behind.
I don't see what Bernie's doing as being anti-Hillary.....Bernie himself cannot influence whether or not I will vote for Hillary, and I think he understands that he doesn't have that power over his supporters. Only Hillary has the power by what the platform is. I will not vote for Trump. I am waiting to see what the platform is at the convention.
Hillary will be able to win over many of his voters, I believe, if she realizes that it was the ideas we supported,more than the person. Other politicians...an Elizabeth Warren, Sherrod Brown,...could have espoused the same ideas and Sanders supporters would have supported them.
These issues are still important to many people (and elsewhere if you look at what is happening all around the world...) and "business as usual" cannot last. Governments and leaders have to face that the solutions of the 20th century no longer work in the 21st century and many people have been left behind.
I don't see what Bernie's doing as being anti-Hillary.....Bernie himself cannot influence whether or not I will vote for Hillary, and I think he understands that he doesn't have that power over his supporters. Only Hillary has the power by what the platform is. I will not vote for Trump. I am waiting to see what the platform is at the convention.
5
Very kind and respectful way of telling it. Thanks
2
After being attacked by a coworker for supporting Bernie, I don't think much more can be said that has not already been written by Thomas Frank in his latest book. If the self labeled "liberal" Hillary supporters would take a time out and read this book, their arguments against supporting Bernie would dissolve and lodging a protest vote against corporate and wealthy control of the process would become an understandable concept to them.
14
Every day that Sanders rails about how the corrupt Democratic Party needs to be remade as the Bernie Party is a good day for Donald Trump.
Every day he leaves hanging the character assassination by innuendo he incessantly hurled at Clinton over the last year, poisoning the minds of millions otherwise inclined to vote for a Democratic nominee, is a great day for Donald Trump.
Every day he leaves hanging the character assassination by innuendo he incessantly hurled at Clinton over the last year, poisoning the minds of millions otherwise inclined to vote for a Democratic nominee, is a great day for Donald Trump.
6
Not all of Bernie's voters were left-of-center ultra-liberals. At least some of them were disgruntled people who chose to express their unhappiness by voting for him. This is one of the reasons he did better in open primary states with lots of white voters. No matter how effusive Bernie were to be about Hillary, he would not bring these people to her side. They'll probably support Trump, who is already courting them.
3
Right, and this is not Bernie's fault; despite many Democrats wanting to blame him for every weakness in the Clinton campaign.
2
Bernie Sanders told his followers he would stay in the race to the end, so he's pretty much stuck until then. His test will be how strongly he urges them to vote for Clinton. My guess is not very, in which case he will be doing his party, and his nation, a disservice
7
The first thing Sanders could do is get off his high horse and stop thinking he is the 2nd coming. There are plenty of democrats of good conscious and character that are not Sanders supporters and his continual refusal to concede is a slap in the face to all those people that voted for Clinton and belies the true vanity of a candidate not yet willing to leave the stage. the real question for sanders is will he be able to live with himself if he doesn't give a full throttled endorsement to Clinton and trump wins
9
Following the disastrous vote in Great Britain, to leave the EU, all sane Americans, Bernie and his supporters as well, need to pull together and make sure that Donald Trump gets nowhere near the White House. We need a strong focus on helping those who have left behind in this economy. We need to save the environment and strengthen education. We need to get a Supreme Court seat filled. We need to get Congress working again.
We need all hands on deck!
This is not a time for petty quarrels or recriminations or woulda, coulda, shoulda. We have to join hands, roll up our sleeves, and put the greater good first. Not just the greater good of this nation but the good of all people as brothers and sisters on a common planet.
We can do it.
Bernie has made a start by saying he intends to vote for Hillary. Now he needs to implore his enthusiastic supporters to do like wise.
He can do it!
We need all hands on deck!
This is not a time for petty quarrels or recriminations or woulda, coulda, shoulda. We have to join hands, roll up our sleeves, and put the greater good first. Not just the greater good of this nation but the good of all people as brothers and sisters on a common planet.
We can do it.
Bernie has made a start by saying he intends to vote for Hillary. Now he needs to implore his enthusiastic supporters to do like wise.
He can do it!
9
Senator Sanders is still a better choice to defeat a would-be President Drumpf. Secretary Clinton needs to demonstrate that should would be a president of all the people; it's up to her, really.
10
As we see in Britain, people are really fed up with the establishment and the bankers they seem to represent.
When voters had their hearts broken by Gary Hart back in '84 it was really hard to get enthusiastic about Dukakis.
Clinton is going to need to earn the respect and the votes of Bernie's supporters (although the polls I have seen show more of Sanders' supporters going to vote for Clinton that this poll). If she earns it she will get their votes, but far too many people have had the drumbeat from media that both parties are the same. Both parties are corrupt. Those of US who are paying attention know that is not the case, but democrats have been largely invisible the last few decades and not everyone can parse the difference between a moderate like Bill Clinton and a supposed moderate like G.H.W. Bush.
It doesn't really help when this newspaper scolds Bernie's supporters and shows him no respect during the process.
What happened in Britain should put the fear of Zeus into the establishment of both parties. If T rump actually gets to the White House his supporters will take to the streets when he actually does nothing. And they will be armed.
When voters had their hearts broken by Gary Hart back in '84 it was really hard to get enthusiastic about Dukakis.
Clinton is going to need to earn the respect and the votes of Bernie's supporters (although the polls I have seen show more of Sanders' supporters going to vote for Clinton that this poll). If she earns it she will get their votes, but far too many people have had the drumbeat from media that both parties are the same. Both parties are corrupt. Those of US who are paying attention know that is not the case, but democrats have been largely invisible the last few decades and not everyone can parse the difference between a moderate like Bill Clinton and a supposed moderate like G.H.W. Bush.
It doesn't really help when this newspaper scolds Bernie's supporters and shows him no respect during the process.
What happened in Britain should put the fear of Zeus into the establishment of both parties. If T rump actually gets to the White House his supporters will take to the streets when he actually does nothing. And they will be armed.
11
I do agree with this comment, but I also believe both parties are corrupt. The Democratic Party is less corrupt, true; but if the Democratic Party were not corrupt, we would have seen criminal banksters sent to prison after the 2008 financial melt-down rather than seeing them bailed out and paid huge bonuses.
2
Sanders is playing a dangerous game and the Brexit vote in the UK should be a cautionary tale for him and his young followers. It is primarily the older generation that has voted to leave the EU; an overwhelming majority of 18-24 year olds wanted to stay and now feel betrayed by their parents, grandparents and uncles. But they were complacent, wrapped up in their studies or other issues and many failed to vote or fight to stay.
That is how we can end up with Trump and if younger Americans are disillusioned with the status quo, they should imagine what country they will live in if they allow the election of a narcissistic buffoon whose primary appeal is to racists, bigots and misogynists and to the dark side in all of us.
Bernie Sanders may go down in history as the guy who made a Trump presidency possible because he allowed the perfect to be the enemy of the good and paved the way for evil.
That is how we can end up with Trump and if younger Americans are disillusioned with the status quo, they should imagine what country they will live in if they allow the election of a narcissistic buffoon whose primary appeal is to racists, bigots and misogynists and to the dark side in all of us.
Bernie Sanders may go down in history as the guy who made a Trump presidency possible because he allowed the perfect to be the enemy of the good and paved the way for evil.
106
"...they can also be as ideologically narrow, and hostile to anyone who disagrees with them, as the Trump crowd." I have to suggest that the lions share of the ugliness coming from the Sanders camp is Republican provacateurs trying to muddy the waters. Their best chance is to sow division and hostility between progressive groups, and a lot of the rhetoric has the traditionally Republican markers of sneering antagonism and a sloppy relationship with the facts. I expect Bernie will finish out the year as an enthusiastic campaigner for the Democratic nominee and I also expect that those of his fans who have ever planned to vote will cast their votes for Hillary, whose progressive bona fides are pretty unimpeachable, regardless of whatever contrary claims you may be able to read on the internet...
4
The official handbook for US citizenship (put out by the Department of Homeland Security) states that voting in federal elections is both a "right" and a "responsibility" (page 5).
We have allowed almost 50% of US Citizens to shirk this sacred and essential duty for too many years now. It's time that our government requires ALL of us to vote, not just some of us. We could start by making election day a national holiday, and by fining those of us who don't fulfill our responsibility.
We have allowed almost 50% of US Citizens to shirk this sacred and essential duty for too many years now. It's time that our government requires ALL of us to vote, not just some of us. We could start by making election day a national holiday, and by fining those of us who don't fulfill our responsibility.
1
Everyone says Democrats should listen to Bernie Sanders and his supporters; but most Democrats do not listen, they only lecture.
I've always said I'll vote for Hillary if she's the nominee, but that's never enough, is it? I need to be lectured at, condescended to, and stereotyped as a naive fool.
Do Democrats believe Sanders supporters can be insulted, lectured and bullied into voting for Clinton? How about some dialogue that goes beyond insults and lectures?
How about a Democratic platform that promotes the progressive policies that Americans clearly and strongly support? But no, just lectures, sneers and more lectures and sneers.
I've always said I'll vote for Hillary if she's the nominee, but that's never enough, is it? I need to be lectured at, condescended to, and stereotyped as a naive fool.
Do Democrats believe Sanders supporters can be insulted, lectured and bullied into voting for Clinton? How about some dialogue that goes beyond insults and lectures?
How about a Democratic platform that promotes the progressive policies that Americans clearly and strongly support? But no, just lectures, sneers and more lectures and sneers.
5
Do you really refuse to acknowledge that Bernie's supporters are also constantly attacking Hillary with shrill, self-righteous glee? That they sneer at her?
Jeez, you want to be mean and expect all the old gals who support Hillary to be really nice?
Yes, Hillary's supporters are partisans. Passionate members of a team. As are Bernie's.
These teams will never merge perfectly. The contest is still too hot and the various insults that have been traded still stuck on our skins.
I plan to sit back and trust that the majority of voters in the US are not reading these comments, and that as Donald Trump proves himself, again and again, to be a vicious, empty, vengeful, heartless clown, progressives will cast their vote for his designated opponent.
You refuse to vote for Hillary? Don't want to compromise? Too angry? Fine. Most Americans don't vote anyway. Welcome to shadowland. Or Ralph Nader Land.
And then ... welcome to a land shaken by the footsteps of Trump Trump Trump. A political T-Rex.
He's ugly. And he is what you'll get. I don't care if you're tired of hearing that (maternal) message. It's the truth.
Jeez, you want to be mean and expect all the old gals who support Hillary to be really nice?
Yes, Hillary's supporters are partisans. Passionate members of a team. As are Bernie's.
These teams will never merge perfectly. The contest is still too hot and the various insults that have been traded still stuck on our skins.
I plan to sit back and trust that the majority of voters in the US are not reading these comments, and that as Donald Trump proves himself, again and again, to be a vicious, empty, vengeful, heartless clown, progressives will cast their vote for his designated opponent.
You refuse to vote for Hillary? Don't want to compromise? Too angry? Fine. Most Americans don't vote anyway. Welcome to shadowland. Or Ralph Nader Land.
And then ... welcome to a land shaken by the footsteps of Trump Trump Trump. A political T-Rex.
He's ugly. And he is what you'll get. I don't care if you're tired of hearing that (maternal) message. It's the truth.
3
Hillary wants to be President, so so bad, its the only thing she has wanted, from day One. And even Bill Clinton wants it for her, its her turn now he says. When someone wants it so bad, they need to earn it. Not by bashing, cajoling, down talking her opponents' supporters through her supporters but by respectfully inviting them. Hillary supporters lack that kind of respect. For someone wanting it so badly, its only hers to lose.
3
I am beginning to wonder whether Senator Sanders has the power to persuade his followers to vote for Clinton. Their unyielding hostility leads me to question whether Sanders's appeal isn't based on his incandescent rage more than the high ideals he articulates. Were he now to pivot toward reasonableness and moderation, encouraging his loyalists to support his ideas by supporting Clinton, he could find himself, once again, a man without a party. In a sense, he has become a puppet of the mob.
6
Bernie Sanders' supporters flocked to him, an unknown, because of his message, not his "charisma". They are policy driven.
Not only is Hillary the status quo candidate, she is reportedly courting dissatisfied Republicans. Well, she can't have it both ways. She has to decide who she embraces and who she is betting will have no choice but to vote for her.
She seems to be embracing Republicans while her surrogates are dissing Sanders supporters for not falling in line. That is a choice, not an inevitability. And choosing Conservatives over Progressives has consequences, even as Bernie has just given his support to Hillary. (Just heard it on the radio).
Not only is Hillary the status quo candidate, she is reportedly courting dissatisfied Republicans. Well, she can't have it both ways. She has to decide who she embraces and who she is betting will have no choice but to vote for her.
She seems to be embracing Republicans while her surrogates are dissing Sanders supporters for not falling in line. That is a choice, not an inevitability. And choosing Conservatives over Progressives has consequences, even as Bernie has just given his support to Hillary. (Just heard it on the radio).
5
I guarantee that you cannot describe in detail so much as one of Sanders' policies, and exactly how it will work in terms of financing.
It's why I didn't vote for him, despite liking his principles and goals a lot. Though the tendency of BernieBots to sound exactly like Trump supporters helped.
Wednesday night, Bernie showed up at the Capitol, waved, got applauded, and left. Elizabeth Warren brought donuts; John Lewis stayed all night.
That says it all, far as I'm concerned.
It's why I didn't vote for him, despite liking his principles and goals a lot. Though the tendency of BernieBots to sound exactly like Trump supporters helped.
Wednesday night, Bernie showed up at the Capitol, waved, got applauded, and left. Elizabeth Warren brought donuts; John Lewis stayed all night.
That says it all, far as I'm concerned.
7
Lecturing Sanders supporters on the Democrats' occupation of "the People's House" is hardly necessary, unless it is to suggest that, having tried by democratic means to reform the grave injustices that perpetuate the oligarchy we call a democracy, they should follow the advice contained in the Declaration of Independence, to wit: "...whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government"
4
As recently discussed over a Sunday dinner with our 25-year old, often the American voter is left with a choice of " the lesser of two evils". The 2012 election is just another example of such a choice. While I disagree with HRC on many of her decisions, both personal and professional, the alternative is beyond the pale. And not voting in protest that Sanders did not get the candidate selection is not a choice the US democracy can withstand.
4
Here's what I, a Bernie person from the get-go, can do:
1. vote for Hillary
2. stay home
3. vote by writing in Bernie's name
4. vote for the Green party
I don't see any of these as feasible for me. But if Bernie were on the ticket with Hillary, I would have to go and vote for him. Him. I'm not saying that is feasible for Bernie; I don't see it happening. Therefore, I don't see any solution for me (and other Bernie fans). And I also see Trump as winning, unfortunately. That's how it stands as of this strange, Brexit day.
1. vote for Hillary
2. stay home
3. vote by writing in Bernie's name
4. vote for the Green party
I don't see any of these as feasible for me. But if Bernie were on the ticket with Hillary, I would have to go and vote for him. Him. I'm not saying that is feasible for Bernie; I don't see it happening. Therefore, I don't see any solution for me (and other Bernie fans). And I also see Trump as winning, unfortunately. That's how it stands as of this strange, Brexit day.
4
As Bernie has been pointing out recently, you wouldn't qualify as a "Bernie Person," and he wouldn't respect your non-position.
Take action, Beth.
Take action, Beth.
4
Oh Sean, you are so wrong. Bernie is for independent thinking; he doesn't decide who is a what person; the person does. He has always said he can't tell people what they should do, and that's why I respect him. And he wouldn't necessarily respect you trying to label others. Also, a lot can happen from now until the election. Stay tuned to me and to others.
3
In answer to Bernie's quote ("the American people, in my view, will never support a candidate whose major theme is bigotry.") - when rational Americans decide to avoid the polls on election day, they allow the irrational to grab the reins of power. We have a legislative branch controlled by bigots, racists and backward people, precisely because Democrats sat on their hands during mid-term elections in 2010, and 2014.
If we can't learn from this, if we choose to stay away from the voting booth this fall, if we (once again) abdicate our responsibility as citizens, then we deserve the darkness that we will have unleashed upon ourselves.
If we can't learn from this, if we choose to stay away from the voting booth this fall, if we (once again) abdicate our responsibility as citizens, then we deserve the darkness that we will have unleashed upon ourselves.
5
Perhaps Bernie should hold a sit-in at the Convention. I'm sure the delegates will all change their votes to nominate him instead once they see the courage of the convictions of a man who has never had a successful career except as a politician, who has never owned or operated a business, and cannot relate to anyone except those who want to get something for nothing.
2
Sanders and Trump kind of have the same message using different methods to get there. They have both stated the obvious, that the middle class is getting the shaft, and the government is to blame. All true.
Hillary, is Obama's third term, nothing will change. Senators McConnall will make a speech telling the world that he will devote all of his time making sure she is a one term President. The House and the Senate will obstruct everything she tries to do. She will prevail through two terms, frustrated with rightful indignation. Status quo prevails.
Hillary, is Obama's third term, nothing will change. Senators McConnall will make a speech telling the world that he will devote all of his time making sure she is a one term President. The House and the Senate will obstruct everything she tries to do. She will prevail through two terms, frustrated with rightful indignation. Status quo prevails.
2
This is why people have become so disillusioned with the Democratic party - as the republicans have gotten crazier and more obstructionist, Democrats have dropped all of their causes and beliefs and opted for the platform of "at least we're better than the Republicans," with the occasional bipartisan compromise like Obamacare, which is a recycled republican bill from the 90s more or less.
What we need is a dialogue on what it means to be a Democrat, not what it means to be better than a republican. Bernie Sanders may have started this dialogue, but if we end it then soon there will be no Democratic party
What we need is a dialogue on what it means to be a Democrat, not what it means to be better than a republican. Bernie Sanders may have started this dialogue, but if we end it then soon there will be no Democratic party
8
No, it's not what we need from Saunders, it's that we need Saunders and what he represents, period. The opinion makers just don't get it - the insatiable greed of the wealthy, and the resulting frustration of the exploited, has brought us to the eve of destruction once again. People don't know where to turn, they want action, any action, and we get Brexit and Donald Trump. So what does the Democratic Party, our self proclaimed beacon for social justice do? They give us Hillary, a living metaphor for the entrenched power structure, a symbol for the compromise and moral flexibility that has brought us to the brink. So the American people lose however this election plays out. So congratulations to the liberal establishment. Bernie Saunders offered a once in a lifetime opportunity to steer us back to sanity in government, but you - and I put NYT in the vanguard of this group - chose the status quo. But you will not get Hillary and business as usual, you will get Donald Trump and anarchy.
6
There is something curious about die-hard Bernie supporters, perhaps reviled by this Bloomberg-commission poll:
"A June 14th Bloomberg Politics national poll of likely voters in November’s election found that barely half of those who favored Sanders — 55 percent — plan to vote for Clinton. Instead, 22 percent say they’ll vote for Trump, while 18 percent favor Libertarian Gary Johnson."
In other words, 45% of Bernie fans have no idea what they're voting for unless they are attracted to authoritarian figures whose main platforms call for more and enormous tax cuts for the wealthy.
Protest is fine, but there has to be a rational basis to it.
"A June 14th Bloomberg Politics national poll of likely voters in November’s election found that barely half of those who favored Sanders — 55 percent — plan to vote for Clinton. Instead, 22 percent say they’ll vote for Trump, while 18 percent favor Libertarian Gary Johnson."
In other words, 45% of Bernie fans have no idea what they're voting for unless they are attracted to authoritarian figures whose main platforms call for more and enormous tax cuts for the wealthy.
Protest is fine, but there has to be a rational basis to it.
7
Lew,
I wish I had your talent for reading other peoples' minds.
I would like to point out, as a charter member of MoveOn and Democracy for America, that early in the process both groups held votes.
MoveOn endorsed Sanders with around 78% of the vote.
Democracy was closer to 88% backing Sanders.
These two groups represent an important, politically aware, faction of the Democratic Party.
I am waiting for HRC to directly address Sanders' supporters to tell us her plans for the issues that concern us.
With over 45% of the committed delegates, she would be wise to do so.
She has plenty of money but hardly a wide backing.
Her negative polls bear witness to that fact.
I wish I had your talent for reading other peoples' minds.
I would like to point out, as a charter member of MoveOn and Democracy for America, that early in the process both groups held votes.
MoveOn endorsed Sanders with around 78% of the vote.
Democracy was closer to 88% backing Sanders.
These two groups represent an important, politically aware, faction of the Democratic Party.
I am waiting for HRC to directly address Sanders' supporters to tell us her plans for the issues that concern us.
With over 45% of the committed delegates, she would be wise to do so.
She has plenty of money but hardly a wide backing.
Her negative polls bear witness to that fact.
6
Fixing a typo: There is something curious about die-hard Bernie supporters, perhaps revealed by this Bloomberg-commission poll:
An interesting column that ignores one basic fact, a majority of voters have strong opinions regarding illegal immigrants, domestic terror, a stagnant economy, unwindable wars, increasingly violent crime, and status-quo leadership.
Spoiler Alert: A majority of Americans are bigots, guilty only of preferring their own racial, religious, ethnic, and social classes. The belief that America is comprised of a homogenized society is a feel-good myth propagated by the establishment leaders to instill guilt in non-believers.
Spoiler Alert: A majority of Americans are bigots, guilty only of preferring their own racial, religious, ethnic, and social classes. The belief that America is comprised of a homogenized society is a feel-good myth propagated by the establishment leaders to instill guilt in non-believers.
2
The disdain held by Sanders supporters is well on display in these comments. Rationality and genuine concern for the future direction, not so much. It's all about keeping the primal scream going.
John Lewis once again is showing what a real revolution looks like -- actually taking a stand and doing something, rather than talking at big rallies. When has Bernie Sanders done anything like this? Oh yeah, he got his picture taken at a rally in Chicago, a few decades ago.
History is fast leaving Sanders in the rear view mirror. He's clinging to his 15 minutes rather than acting smartly to build a legacy on what he has done so far by participating.
And the future is about participating, not standing on the sideline and grousing, begrudgingly promise to 'vote' for Clinton, and to do everything he can to make sure Trump is not president. Apparently by trying to maintain his own private presidential campaign in a universe parallel to the real one in which we are presently living.
John Lewis once again is showing what a real revolution looks like -- actually taking a stand and doing something, rather than talking at big rallies. When has Bernie Sanders done anything like this? Oh yeah, he got his picture taken at a rally in Chicago, a few decades ago.
History is fast leaving Sanders in the rear view mirror. He's clinging to his 15 minutes rather than acting smartly to build a legacy on what he has done so far by participating.
And the future is about participating, not standing on the sideline and grousing, begrudgingly promise to 'vote' for Clinton, and to do everything he can to make sure Trump is not president. Apparently by trying to maintain his own private presidential campaign in a universe parallel to the real one in which we are presently living.
9
Sanders has repeatedly and unequivocally said he will support the Democratic candidate to defeat Trump. He has said he will work with Clinton to defeat Trump. He has said he will not be the nominee, and this morning he said he will vote for Clinton.
None of this will matter to Sanders voters who are saying they will vote for Trump. There is nothing Sanders can say to these people to make them vote for Clinton.
The problem is not Sanders, not anything he said, not anything he did.
The problem is Clinton's problem. She has to become a better candidate to win people over. Her failures and flaws are not Sanders's fault.
Mr Rosenthal's continued blaming of Sanders for Clinton's problems is self-deception, to put it mildly. I agree this is a bigger election than most others. Mr Rosenthal should be calling on the Clinton team to look reality square in the face rather than scapegoating Sanders and the people who voted for him in the primary.
There is not surer way to permanently alienate voters than to berate them for not favoring your preferred candidate.
None of this will matter to Sanders voters who are saying they will vote for Trump. There is nothing Sanders can say to these people to make them vote for Clinton.
The problem is not Sanders, not anything he said, not anything he did.
The problem is Clinton's problem. She has to become a better candidate to win people over. Her failures and flaws are not Sanders's fault.
Mr Rosenthal's continued blaming of Sanders for Clinton's problems is self-deception, to put it mildly. I agree this is a bigger election than most others. Mr Rosenthal should be calling on the Clinton team to look reality square in the face rather than scapegoating Sanders and the people who voted for him in the primary.
There is not surer way to permanently alienate voters than to berate them for not favoring your preferred candidate.
5
“On Friday, he said he would vote for Clinton in November, but that he’s not dropping out and that he is not endorsing her now.”
This is like Republicans saying they’ll vote for Trump but not endorse him! One hopes that Sanders sees the Brexit result as a precursor to what could happen here in the US? A similar nationalistic surge, based on a faulty “America First” appeal to patriotism and nationalism, could elect Trump?
Sanders is also an “America First” guy, so one can see why “Twenty-two percent said that they would vote for Trump instead.” The longer Sanders takes to endorse Clinton, the harder it becomes for him to effectively sway his supporters in her direction.
With his vacillation, he is essentially betraying the Democratic Party that gave him a fair shot at the nomination, which he would not have had as an independent. It’s a shame, if his ambivalence turns out to have a Nader effect on the 2016 election and propels Trump into the Oval office.
This is like Republicans saying they’ll vote for Trump but not endorse him! One hopes that Sanders sees the Brexit result as a precursor to what could happen here in the US? A similar nationalistic surge, based on a faulty “America First” appeal to patriotism and nationalism, could elect Trump?
Sanders is also an “America First” guy, so one can see why “Twenty-two percent said that they would vote for Trump instead.” The longer Sanders takes to endorse Clinton, the harder it becomes for him to effectively sway his supporters in her direction.
With his vacillation, he is essentially betraying the Democratic Party that gave him a fair shot at the nomination, which he would not have had as an independent. It’s a shame, if his ambivalence turns out to have a Nader effect on the 2016 election and propels Trump into the Oval office.
4
Sander's needs to hold out as long as possible to help ensure HRC adopts some of his positions. He rightly believes that she cannot be trusted to adhere to any commitment she makes to him now.
3
Notice how David Cameron's pompous, albeit somewhat reasoned, arguments went down in the UK. It's time to learn how to talk in a political debate. Telling Sanders to get out and tow the line will not work on many levels. To whom are you talking? Sanders is not perfect, but he is genuine and has the good of the 99% as his goal. Rather than lecture him, learn from him. He is now gently pivoting. If he does it wrong he will lose everything. Hillary cannot become a Hillary/Sanders synthesis. She has to do what she can to convince voters that the real Hillary is not her caricature in the media. And she has to welcome the Sanders wing in the Party as a full partner. Many voters want to tell the bankers, CEOs, and the politicians to stuff it. They have to be able to do that and get policies through that will make those erstwhile elites equal, not dominating, part of the electorate permanently. Sanders can help with this in ways Hillary has never imagined. Learn from Sanders rather than lecture to him. That will be a beginning at least for the Times' editorial staff.
4
Regarding commenters' post-Brexit lipstick-on-a-pig entreaties that Hillary pose as Bernie-Trump, they underestimate the electorate's collective intelligence and disgust.
Hillary, like Hoffa, is sealed in cement.
The latest scam of the Clintons makes their 90s White House quid pro quo look like—if you’ll pardon the oxymoron—penny ante treason.
While Mrs. Clinton was Secretary of State, the couple pocketed billions in “pay to play.” The multifarious vectors of transaction and the massive, disproportionate Clinton gains are prima facie evidence of the crime. Why else would so many pay so much for so little?
The Clintons' appetite for money and power is insatiable. Like laboratory rats, put enough of the goodies in front of these two and they will gorge themselves to death.
The Clintons have a long history of selling out this country to the enemy, often in plain sight. For eight years, they methodically, seditiously and with impunity auctioned off America’s security, sovereignty and economy to the highest foreign bidder.
And they are selling out the country in plain sight today with the biggest cover and slush fund of all time: The Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation… which brings us full circle and explains why Hillary Clinton chose to scrub the server and risk being charged with obstruction of justice…
You put these two miscreants back in power at your own peril. And your children’s.
Hillary, like Hoffa, is sealed in cement.
The latest scam of the Clintons makes their 90s White House quid pro quo look like—if you’ll pardon the oxymoron—penny ante treason.
While Mrs. Clinton was Secretary of State, the couple pocketed billions in “pay to play.” The multifarious vectors of transaction and the massive, disproportionate Clinton gains are prima facie evidence of the crime. Why else would so many pay so much for so little?
The Clintons' appetite for money and power is insatiable. Like laboratory rats, put enough of the goodies in front of these two and they will gorge themselves to death.
The Clintons have a long history of selling out this country to the enemy, often in plain sight. For eight years, they methodically, seditiously and with impunity auctioned off America’s security, sovereignty and economy to the highest foreign bidder.
And they are selling out the country in plain sight today with the biggest cover and slush fund of all time: The Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation… which brings us full circle and explains why Hillary Clinton chose to scrub the server and risk being charged with obstruction of justice…
You put these two miscreants back in power at your own peril. And your children’s.
3
I'd suggest that folks who take books like "Clinton Cash," this seriously, seriously need to avoid phrases such as "collective intelligence."
5
Did Hillary Clinton move a bit to the left in response to Bernie Sanders, or was it just a head fake?
Somehow I've missed Bernie Sanders' "abundant skills as a candidate". I missed them when I first head Bernie speak in front of crowd of about 400 in Waterloo. I missed them a few months later when I heard him speak in front of a crowd of about 900 at hall her in Rochester. I failed to notice those considerable skills when he spoke again in front of about 3,000 here in Rochester just before the Democratic Party caucus.
What I did notice was a consistent, virtually identical stump speech and his well worn blue suit. Gail Collins has pointed out that Bernie Sanders has really gone a long way on just one speech and one blue suit.
Why do I support Bernie Sanders? Because he's correctly framed the issues and because he speaks to those issues consistently and passionately.
The bottom line is I'm a Democrat. So I'll support Hillary Clinton. I'll support Hillary Clinton even though she doesn't frame the issues as well as Bernie and even though she fails to speak to those issues consistently and passionately.
Will we Democrats win on November 8? You betcha.
Somehow I've missed Bernie Sanders' "abundant skills as a candidate". I missed them when I first head Bernie speak in front of crowd of about 400 in Waterloo. I missed them a few months later when I heard him speak in front of a crowd of about 900 at hall her in Rochester. I failed to notice those considerable skills when he spoke again in front of about 3,000 here in Rochester just before the Democratic Party caucus.
What I did notice was a consistent, virtually identical stump speech and his well worn blue suit. Gail Collins has pointed out that Bernie Sanders has really gone a long way on just one speech and one blue suit.
Why do I support Bernie Sanders? Because he's correctly framed the issues and because he speaks to those issues consistently and passionately.
The bottom line is I'm a Democrat. So I'll support Hillary Clinton. I'll support Hillary Clinton even though she doesn't frame the issues as well as Bernie and even though she fails to speak to those issues consistently and passionately.
Will we Democrats win on November 8? You betcha.
5
Staying home is more than just voting for Trump. I wish the Sanders people, and (more importantly, the news media) would recognize that the big block to the "Sanders agenda" was not the Obama White House, and will not be a Clinton White House. It's a Republican House and Senate.
I voted for Bernie, in order to show support for his agenda. I did not vote for Bernie in order to oppose a Hillary Clinton presidency. Quite frankly, the prospect of a Republican president along with a Republican House and Senate horrifies me - any Republican, not just Donald Trump. It should horrify all Sanders' voters!
By contrast: the best chance to advance a Sanders agenda would be a Democrat in the White House - any Democrat, including Hillary Clinton - combined with (however unlikely) a Semocratic House and Senate.
The two years of Obama plus a Democratic Congress produced Dodd-Frank, Obamacare, excellent Supreme Court judges... and would have done much more but for Republican filibusters. We can't get back there, but at least we can get halfway by electing a Democratic president. I just hope Sanders and his supporters recognize that.
I voted for Bernie, in order to show support for his agenda. I did not vote for Bernie in order to oppose a Hillary Clinton presidency. Quite frankly, the prospect of a Republican president along with a Republican House and Senate horrifies me - any Republican, not just Donald Trump. It should horrify all Sanders' voters!
By contrast: the best chance to advance a Sanders agenda would be a Democrat in the White House - any Democrat, including Hillary Clinton - combined with (however unlikely) a Semocratic House and Senate.
The two years of Obama plus a Democratic Congress produced Dodd-Frank, Obamacare, excellent Supreme Court judges... and would have done much more but for Republican filibusters. We can't get back there, but at least we can get halfway by electing a Democratic president. I just hope Sanders and his supporters recognize that.
6
Bernie is Elizabeth Warren's stand-in. She, unfortunately, declined to enter the primary contest. So we got Bernie, the old democratic socialist who went on a honeymoon in the U.S.S.R., visited Daniel Ortega's Nicaragua, has a picture of Socialist icon Eugene Debs in his office, didn't get a steady job until he was 40 years old, and much more. She might have been electable; Bernie is not and never was electable. Not to mention his hypocrisy; in refusing to release his tax returns, he gives Trump cover, and leads one to wonder, in his campaign manager Jeff Weaver's own words in a MSNBC interview with Chris Matthews, "what is he trying to hide". He was an extremely poor messenger, and he got a lot of young, naïve people to buy what he was selling. What I need from Bernie Sanders is for him to get off his egotistical high horse, humbly endorse and congratulate our eminently qualified first female major contender for the Presidency, and get back on that horse and ride it back to Burlington, VT. He has, evidently, enough people buying his snake oil there to enable him to live out the rest of his days in wealth and comfort.
3
Senator Sanders released his tax returns weeks, if not months, ago. However, it is your candidate Drumpf who has not. So, instead of berating Bernie, why not go after Donnie and get his tax returns? Your badmouthing of Bernie is just an attempt at obfuscating for the most unqualified presidential candidate and biggest threat to our democracy yet.
1
What are you talking about? He released the summary page of his 2014 tax return. That's IT. Hillary has released 30 years' worth.
6
Will Hillary get behind $15/Hr minimum wage? Will Hillary end this endless war evil? Will Hillary ban fracking and get our country on a serious path to a non fossil fuel climate friendly future? These are a few critical issues that HRC would apparently be oblivious to were it not for Sanders bringing them to the front and center. If he is ignored and these issues are not addressed I will quit the democratic party which I have supported for a good 40 some odd years. If the democratic party chooses to not represent 48+% of the people supporting it, it doesn't deserve to win, irregardless of what blasphemous troll the republicans are threatening the nation with.
4
Sanders is staying true to his heart and soul. We expect nothing less. His negotiations are for the betterment of all. Come to the table and talk. He will vote against Trump as he has said he would from the beginning. He is not the issue.
His voters are.
That is on the Democratic Party and Ms. Clinton to convince.
The convention will be here soon enough.
Show them the progress and earn their votes.
Easy-peasy.
Quit the shaming, threatening, Nadering, Trumping, hair on fire, shrill screech.
Adopt and adept. Lean Left. Make the concessions.
Earn the votes.
That will leave 5 months to campaign and have our Kumbaya moment.
Or not.
What will it be Ms. Clinton?!
My decades old, Dem. issued nose pin is at the ready.
The calluses from constant voting wear are still there.
How about The Democratic Party reverts back to what it was.
I'm ready. YOU?!
His voters are.
That is on the Democratic Party and Ms. Clinton to convince.
The convention will be here soon enough.
Show them the progress and earn their votes.
Easy-peasy.
Quit the shaming, threatening, Nadering, Trumping, hair on fire, shrill screech.
Adopt and adept. Lean Left. Make the concessions.
Earn the votes.
That will leave 5 months to campaign and have our Kumbaya moment.
Or not.
What will it be Ms. Clinton?!
My decades old, Dem. issued nose pin is at the ready.
The calluses from constant voting wear are still there.
How about The Democratic Party reverts back to what it was.
I'm ready. YOU?!
5
Perhaps the better proposition is What American Needs From HIllary Clinton
Senator Sanders changed the conversation. He helped move the Democrats closer to left center when they were veering wildly to the right. He forced the Clinton camp to recognize the decline of infrastructure and need to face domestic, individual economic issues, not just some big, amorphous picture that reduces the taxpayer to nothing more than a money unit.
What America needs is a partnership between those two sides of the Democratic coin. Sanders supporters were _not_ an insignificant group. This was a tight race which means a whole lotta people support the platform the senator brought to the race. Those constituents must be acknowledged.
I have no idea what Camp Clinton is going to offer Sanders and his Sandernistas, but it had better be significant and soon. A coalition _must_ be formed.
That is how we will defeat Donald Trump.
http://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
Senator Sanders changed the conversation. He helped move the Democrats closer to left center when they were veering wildly to the right. He forced the Clinton camp to recognize the decline of infrastructure and need to face domestic, individual economic issues, not just some big, amorphous picture that reduces the taxpayer to nothing more than a money unit.
What America needs is a partnership between those two sides of the Democratic coin. Sanders supporters were _not_ an insignificant group. This was a tight race which means a whole lotta people support the platform the senator brought to the race. Those constituents must be acknowledged.
I have no idea what Camp Clinton is going to offer Sanders and his Sandernistas, but it had better be significant and soon. A coalition _must_ be formed.
That is how we will defeat Donald Trump.
http://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
9
Peaceful Revolutionist
If Bernie folds his tent into the Democratic Party, he will have inspired millions
of people but will have accomplished almost nothing. Bernie should now lead a revolution outside the Democratic Party to agitate for change that matters. I hope his next move will be to call for a massive march on Washington. The goal would be to work toward drafting an amendment to the constitution that mandates public funding of all political campaigns. The only way for the will of the people to be heard is to get the money out of politics and take back our country.
If Bernie folds his tent into the Democratic Party, he will have inspired millions
of people but will have accomplished almost nothing. Bernie should now lead a revolution outside the Democratic Party to agitate for change that matters. I hope his next move will be to call for a massive march on Washington. The goal would be to work toward drafting an amendment to the constitution that mandates public funding of all political campaigns. The only way for the will of the people to be heard is to get the money out of politics and take back our country.
5
I continually wonder what filter it is that shades Bernie Sanders' eyes. His vision of what we could be invigorates and energizes us all. Hillary Clinton somehow reminds us that the path there will long and hard and will require patience and work and no small level of frustration. Bernie's vision is lovely, but let's face it, Hillary is right. But I understand why people stick with Bernie. Pass the glasses.
But, I really fail to understand how Bernie can claim “the American people, in my view, will never support a candidate whose major theme is bigotry.” Yes! Yes, they will, Bernie! They are, right now! Cast away your rose colored glasses and see and denounce the Trump that is right in front of our all our eyes. Just as surely as the German and Italian people supported candidates whose major theme was bigotry, so too will the American people unless all of us convince them otherwise. Donald Trump is not merely a politician with ideas we challenge. He is a demagogue who will surely take all power for his own designs the first chance he gets. He is the nightmare.
By entering the race for President, Bernie, especially with the success you had attracting supporters, you undertook a special obligation to work to shape the outcome of the race, even if you are not the winner. You may not care for Hillary Clinton (I happen to think she is great), but Donald Trump is a special kind of bad. Time for you to step up and rally your supporters to Hillary Clinton.
But, I really fail to understand how Bernie can claim “the American people, in my view, will never support a candidate whose major theme is bigotry.” Yes! Yes, they will, Bernie! They are, right now! Cast away your rose colored glasses and see and denounce the Trump that is right in front of our all our eyes. Just as surely as the German and Italian people supported candidates whose major theme was bigotry, so too will the American people unless all of us convince them otherwise. Donald Trump is not merely a politician with ideas we challenge. He is a demagogue who will surely take all power for his own designs the first chance he gets. He is the nightmare.
By entering the race for President, Bernie, especially with the success you had attracting supporters, you undertook a special obligation to work to shape the outcome of the race, even if you are not the winner. You may not care for Hillary Clinton (I happen to think she is great), but Donald Trump is a special kind of bad. Time for you to step up and rally your supporters to Hillary Clinton.
7
As the joke goes, the short-lived revolution will fizzle out in 140 characters.
Whether the Arab Spring or this year's presidential cycle, aspirations go AWOL just as soon as hard lifting is demanded. Persisting in one's desire to change the system for the better takes intellectual tenacity and a more holistic long-term view than the politics of self-centered self-congratulatory citizens of convenience can muster.
What it is that's expected by Sanders supporters who grump about taking their votes elsewhere (or not voting at all!) reflects a decidedly unhistorical reading of democracy's methodical path to truth. They condemn their own fates and reassert predispositions to blinded quick-fix "ideals". How can they not possibly see the role that a moribund GOP has had in blocking progress while raking in obscene unearned millions? The system is rigged! But who put the frigging in the rigging?
As for the 22% of Sanders followers who now lean on an infantile liar to fix their problems, about all that can be said about them would be better left told by Bernie himself: embarrassments of the lowest order, reassuming a lifelong pattern of self-inflicted grief tied invariably to blaming others.
How can you expect to realize progress when you give away your future to a party that hasn't forwarded one bit of defensible sustainable public policy in over 20 years?
Democracy was never designed to deliver instant gratification. Its viability is bound up with far longer attention spans.
Whether the Arab Spring or this year's presidential cycle, aspirations go AWOL just as soon as hard lifting is demanded. Persisting in one's desire to change the system for the better takes intellectual tenacity and a more holistic long-term view than the politics of self-centered self-congratulatory citizens of convenience can muster.
What it is that's expected by Sanders supporters who grump about taking their votes elsewhere (or not voting at all!) reflects a decidedly unhistorical reading of democracy's methodical path to truth. They condemn their own fates and reassert predispositions to blinded quick-fix "ideals". How can they not possibly see the role that a moribund GOP has had in blocking progress while raking in obscene unearned millions? The system is rigged! But who put the frigging in the rigging?
As for the 22% of Sanders followers who now lean on an infantile liar to fix their problems, about all that can be said about them would be better left told by Bernie himself: embarrassments of the lowest order, reassuming a lifelong pattern of self-inflicted grief tied invariably to blaming others.
How can you expect to realize progress when you give away your future to a party that hasn't forwarded one bit of defensible sustainable public policy in over 20 years?
Democracy was never designed to deliver instant gratification. Its viability is bound up with far longer attention spans.
9
"The Sanders crowd"? This phrase in Rosenthal's condescending, patronizing piece embodies the unrelenting hostility and arrogance expressed by the "elite" media of this country, including the Times, toward Sanders and what he represents. We have just seen the results of what thus kind of establishment myopia and arrogance can engender in the (formerly) United Kingdom. It is up to Hillary Clinton to woo the twelve million voters of the "Sanders crowd" with substantive policy positions which might sway their votes and bring them out in November; neither they or Sanders owe her anything, and public shaming by their "betters" (such as Rosenthal) is, to say the least, counterproductive. The Democratic Party, as represented by Hillary Clinton, has been corrupted by big money for decades and without new blood and new ideas it will break apart, as the Republican Party is doing. This country's media elite has unfailingly misread the mood of the American people during this entire election cycle and seems bewildered by the fact that they just won't be "sensible". Blaming Bernie Sanders for pointing out that the country needs real change, not more of the same, seems to be the intellectually and morally bankrupt position which, as a whole, our revered establishment pundits have chosen.
7
You did read the article, right? Rosenthal said that Clinton and Sanders are fairly close in ideas. Whether ardent Bernie supporters like Clinton or not, she Beat Sanders in the primaries by almost 4 million votes.
The Sanders' supporters who say they refuse to vote for her sound like petulant children who say they're going to take their ball and go home if they don't get their way. Much like Bernie himself. This is a country of what over 300M people?
While I agree with you about corruption in politics and that big money is a problem, the democrats at least care about the average person. Their platform is about the greater good, not just the good of 1-2%.
The ardent Bernie supporters sound more like many Republican voters..."it's all about me."
The Sanders' supporters who say they refuse to vote for her sound like petulant children who say they're going to take their ball and go home if they don't get their way. Much like Bernie himself. This is a country of what over 300M people?
While I agree with you about corruption in politics and that big money is a problem, the democrats at least care about the average person. Their platform is about the greater good, not just the good of 1-2%.
The ardent Bernie supporters sound more like many Republican voters..."it's all about me."
5
The fact that Rosenthal said they were fairly close in ideas does not make it so, and no, the Democratic Party as it stands, personified by Hillary Clinton, does not "care about the average person". She actually is part of the 1%, and has become so not by honest work, but in the main by making millions speaking to and for her fellow 1%ers. The idea that shaming Sanders' supporters and stoking fear of "the other" in place of offering positive change is going to win the election for her is delusional at best. Did you miss the election results in the UK last night? Sanders' supporters will vote for her if they see her advocate policies which will address the shameful level of inequality in the U.S. - no one is entitled to votes, it's necessary to earn them.
It is fine for Sanders to continue to hold his cards close to his vest, but as any good poker player knows you got to know when to hold them and when to fold them.
In Sanders case timing is of the essence. We have a lull in the campaigns until July when the Republicans meet in Cleveland followed immediately after by the Dems in Philadelphia. When the conventions are over and the ground troops begin to coalesce in full force by Labor Day for the final stretch to the General Election, Sanders will have had to show his cards. After Philadelphia if Sanders does anything to thwart Hillary then his true colors will be shown. If the end game is to resoundingly defeat Trump, as Sanders has consistently said, then he either will be on board the Hillary bandwagon or not, and if he chooses not to then he will go from ally to spoiler.
For those young Sanders supporters who by Fall remain stubbornly entrenched still believing there is no difference between Hillary and Trump, much like the Brits who voted in the Brexit referendum to Leave, will be in for a rude awakening. Come January 2017 they will be able to spot the difference, and it won't be a pretty sight at all.
DD
Manhattan
In Sanders case timing is of the essence. We have a lull in the campaigns until July when the Republicans meet in Cleveland followed immediately after by the Dems in Philadelphia. When the conventions are over and the ground troops begin to coalesce in full force by Labor Day for the final stretch to the General Election, Sanders will have had to show his cards. After Philadelphia if Sanders does anything to thwart Hillary then his true colors will be shown. If the end game is to resoundingly defeat Trump, as Sanders has consistently said, then he either will be on board the Hillary bandwagon or not, and if he chooses not to then he will go from ally to spoiler.
For those young Sanders supporters who by Fall remain stubbornly entrenched still believing there is no difference between Hillary and Trump, much like the Brits who voted in the Brexit referendum to Leave, will be in for a rude awakening. Come January 2017 they will be able to spot the difference, and it won't be a pretty sight at all.
DD
Manhattan
75
"The forces of hatred and racism he was opposing then are only marginally different from the ones now represented by the Republicans, led by Donald Trump."
It's uninformed statements like this that make it difficult sometimes to defend being a progressive liberal these days. The difference between the racism and hatred faced by African-Americans in 1965 and that of those in 2016 is so much more than marginal that one doesn't even know where to begin the accounting. There seems to be a prevailing attitude amongst a certain segment of the left that acknowledging any progress on this front will somehow lead to a lessening of the urgency to continue the work of moving towards a more egalitarian society. While I can see the merits of this argument, there is the small matter of the truth, and the truth is that while there is significantly more work to do, there has been way more than marginal improvement over the last 50 years.
It's uninformed statements like this that make it difficult sometimes to defend being a progressive liberal these days. The difference between the racism and hatred faced by African-Americans in 1965 and that of those in 2016 is so much more than marginal that one doesn't even know where to begin the accounting. There seems to be a prevailing attitude amongst a certain segment of the left that acknowledging any progress on this front will somehow lead to a lessening of the urgency to continue the work of moving towards a more egalitarian society. While I can see the merits of this argument, there is the small matter of the truth, and the truth is that while there is significantly more work to do, there has been way more than marginal improvement over the last 50 years.
2
I am only speculating because I have not discussed my theory with Senator Sanders BUT I believe that the best thing he can do to unify the Democrats is to wait for the Convention to endorse Mrs. Clinton. That is when he will have the proper stage to review the issues of his supporters and recognize those issues that Mrs. Clinton has adopted. I really don't see that much daylight between the two. There seems to be only a question of priorities. I certainly agree with Senator Sanders leadership on giving global warming high priority, eliminating the cap on payroll deductions, which I heard Mrs. C agree to in the 2nd debate, and increasing social security payments to make life a little better for the elderly and disabled, Mr Sanders has appeal because of his egalitarian approach to the distribution of income after taxes, and job opportunity. Mrs. C. if questioned on these issues at the convention will certainly agree.
Senator Sanders chose to be a real progressive and reject "Republican Lite" decades ago. In my view, he has followed the soul & fair mindedness of the majority of the American people for his political career. Clearly, he has read the same history & shared a lot of it for the 20th Century & seems to be dedicated to restoring the country to the greatness achieved when we unified after WWII.
I wish that Senator Sanders would be chosen by the convention to be the Vice President. A great team to shepherd our flock through the challenges of the 21st Century.
Senator Sanders chose to be a real progressive and reject "Republican Lite" decades ago. In my view, he has followed the soul & fair mindedness of the majority of the American people for his political career. Clearly, he has read the same history & shared a lot of it for the 20th Century & seems to be dedicated to restoring the country to the greatness achieved when we unified after WWII.
I wish that Senator Sanders would be chosen by the convention to be the Vice President. A great team to shepherd our flock through the challenges of the 21st Century.
42
We need him in the Senate.
3
Call me delusional, but I firmly believe that if it weren't for the fervor stirred by Sanders in the democratic wing of the Dem party, the House sit-in would not have happened. What is interesting is the fact that -- to my great personal consternation -- Bernie has not taken an active role on gun control.
As an adopted Vermonter I believe Sanders is too cautious on this issue: the way I see it, Vermonters are first and foremost very reasonable and very concerned citizens. It is time for Bernie to take a lead at the local level and use his credibility and his new stand as national figure to push for common sense measures on gun control.
As an adopted Vermonter I believe Sanders is too cautious on this issue: the way I see it, Vermonters are first and foremost very reasonable and very concerned citizens. It is time for Bernie to take a lead at the local level and use his credibility and his new stand as national figure to push for common sense measures on gun control.
1
If Hillary Clinton doesn't support Bernie Sander's policies, she should come out and explain why she doesn't support them or how she would modify them. It's not enough to say that they can't be implemented because the Republicans won't support them. I think the minimum wage should reflect the realities of local economies and let employers off the hook for increased Social Security contributions and he could have been more creative with his soak the rich schemes-say an end to the capital tax break-going to the mailbox to picking up a check is work,too- and a sharp reduction in the corporate tax rate in exchange for a raise in the progressive tax rate. Maybe we could knock the rate down to five percent until the deficit is at a certain percentage of GNP whereupon it would be zero) with an understanding that there would be no corporate tax breaks and no participation by corporations in the political process since they're not people anyway. Mrs. Clinton may have better formulated policies, but I'd like to hear them. If not, I won't vote on the Presidential line; winning back the Senate and the House is more important and I live in a blue state.
2
In the beginning, I had the impression that Sander's voters were bright and intelligent people. Now they appear to be complete and total ideologues. For almost 40% of them to either vote for Trump or a third Party candidate is insane. If Trump succeeds, in his race for the White House, he will attempt to put in policies which represent everything they oppose. His tax policies alone will be of tremendous benefit to the corporations and the wealthy that these people despise and will accelerate the income inequality gap to unimaginable levels. Since the core of Bernie's voters are young people, they would then enjoy the cocoon of their parents basements for an unlimited future. Bernie has invented a new drug. He reminds me now of Timothy Leary who brought an entire generation to ruin. He is the Pied Piper of the Green Mountains.
12
Some comments reflect the relevance of Brixit to this article. The article completely misses an important trend not only in this country but in many others as well. People are fed up with leadership that is entrenched (and consists mainly of career politicians and moneyed interests) and completely out of touch with the needs and interests of ordinary people. They want major changes in how our government does business.
When you take Sanders and Trump together, they appeal to a very large percentage of the US electorate, and just as the electorate in Britain surprised many with the way it voted for Brixit, there may be many surprises here despite all the hand wringing and bemoaning about how disastrous Sanders and/or Trump would be for our country if either were to get elected.
Surprisingly Rosenthal fails to see that our career politician leaders whom he supports are out of touch, but that is the real message of Sanders, Trump, and Brixit.
When you take Sanders and Trump together, they appeal to a very large percentage of the US electorate, and just as the electorate in Britain surprised many with the way it voted for Brixit, there may be many surprises here despite all the hand wringing and bemoaning about how disastrous Sanders and/or Trump would be for our country if either were to get elected.
Surprisingly Rosenthal fails to see that our career politician leaders whom he supports are out of touch, but that is the real message of Sanders, Trump, and Brixit.
3
Too many Bernie supporters commenting here are oblivious to the right wing "revolution" already underway in this country. They are untroubled Trump's racism and xenophobia. They don't care one bit that Trump and his gun crazy supporters want carte blanche to conduct mass roundups of 11 million "illegals", forcibly throwing them into detention camps, and deporting them at the point of a gun. The families torn apart and lives destroyed appear to matter not one bit for Sanders or his supporters. Instead, they delude themselves into thinking that the con artist & grifter Trump, is the acceptable alternative to Clinton. Trump's entire life has been devoted to scamming the corporate and legal status quo to benefit himself. He is an impulsive, reactionary, emotionally unstable serial liar. Yet to too many Bernie supporters, he is the desirable alternative if Sanders can't get the Democratic nomination.
10
So long as it doesn't find expression in institutionalized violence and discrimination, there are far greater evils in the world than bigotry. I know that is not a popular position among so called liberal Democrats, but they can be bigots, too. The way in which the more enlightened of them treat with the working classes can only be seen as bigotry. The supporter of Trump and Sanders know this to be true because many of them have surely experienced it first hand often enough to know and be angry with it.
That Bernie Sanders works for these people, and campaigns to make their voices heard, is precisely why he has not yet endorsed and campaigned for Hillary Clinton. Clintonism is the antithesis of everything Sanders stands for. It is biased against the working classes, and works only for the welfare of the bosses, banksters, and the rentiers. Hillary Clinton will not get Sanders full throated support until she agree to make life better for those whose lives have not been bettered by Reagan/Clinton trickle down economic policy fraud.
That Bernie Sanders works for these people, and campaigns to make their voices heard, is precisely why he has not yet endorsed and campaigned for Hillary Clinton. Clintonism is the antithesis of everything Sanders stands for. It is biased against the working classes, and works only for the welfare of the bosses, banksters, and the rentiers. Hillary Clinton will not get Sanders full throated support until she agree to make life better for those whose lives have not been bettered by Reagan/Clinton trickle down economic policy fraud.
2
Senator Sanders has a vision of the future. Mrs. Clinton stands for the status quo. Senator Sanders is plain spoken. Mrs Clinton parses her every utterance. Senator Sanders opposes the noxious 'trade deals' rattling around both the Atlantic and Pacific. Mrs Clinton was for them before she was sort of against them. Senator Sanders is for more balance in foreign policy. Mrs Clinton doubles down on her aggressive stance.
I am sure Senator Sanders will stand behind Mrs Clinton. What those who support him will do is their call. For myself I cannot vote for Mr Trump and I disagree with Mrs Clinton on policy both domestic and foreign. I am tired of being offered a choice of Republican or Republican-lite; One Big Party has a sour taste. Identity politics alone as a raison d'etre is tired. There is more to the USA than those blue urban regions that appear on the electoral map.
There is a good deal more than contrarianism and a dog-in-the-manger attitude going on here.
I am sure Senator Sanders will stand behind Mrs Clinton. What those who support him will do is their call. For myself I cannot vote for Mr Trump and I disagree with Mrs Clinton on policy both domestic and foreign. I am tired of being offered a choice of Republican or Republican-lite; One Big Party has a sour taste. Identity politics alone as a raison d'etre is tired. There is more to the USA than those blue urban regions that appear on the electoral map.
There is a good deal more than contrarianism and a dog-in-the-manger attitude going on here.
5
Hillary Clinton can't win over Sanders' supporters no matter what she says or does so what's the point?
What America really needs from Bernie Sanders is for him to stop deluding his legions of worshipful devotees, pack it in, go back to Vermont and change his political affiliation back to Independent. Bernie Sanders underestimated the clout of mainstream Democratic voters who were completely turned off by his shrieking about his precious political revolution. Bernie learned the hard way that you can't shove a revolution down the throats of people who just don't want it. Chalk up a victory for the silent majority.
Personally I will never forgive Bernie Sanders for nearly destroying a golden moment in the history of American women with the nomination of the first female candidate to head the presidential ticket of either political party. Women have been dreaming about a moment like this for over 200 years. Just think--America can be on the verge of electing its first ever woman as its president!! But along comes some grumpy old guy who sees this historical event as his first and last chance to become president and does all he can to upstage the female presidential nominee's golden moment of triumph. Bernie Sanders is just milking his 15 minutes of fame for as long as possible. Vermont should do the right thing and kick Bernie Sanders out of the Senate as soon as possible.
What America really needs from Bernie Sanders is for him to stop deluding his legions of worshipful devotees, pack it in, go back to Vermont and change his political affiliation back to Independent. Bernie Sanders underestimated the clout of mainstream Democratic voters who were completely turned off by his shrieking about his precious political revolution. Bernie learned the hard way that you can't shove a revolution down the throats of people who just don't want it. Chalk up a victory for the silent majority.
Personally I will never forgive Bernie Sanders for nearly destroying a golden moment in the history of American women with the nomination of the first female candidate to head the presidential ticket of either political party. Women have been dreaming about a moment like this for over 200 years. Just think--America can be on the verge of electing its first ever woman as its president!! But along comes some grumpy old guy who sees this historical event as his first and last chance to become president and does all he can to upstage the female presidential nominee's golden moment of triumph. Bernie Sanders is just milking his 15 minutes of fame for as long as possible. Vermont should do the right thing and kick Bernie Sanders out of the Senate as soon as possible.
6
The Democratic establishment is doing everything it can to quash actual progressive candidates.
The initial media blackout on Bernie, the scheduling of very few debates on low viewership dates, the commitment of most superdelegates before a single vote was cast.
But that only addresses the establishment fight at the presidential level.
Not only is the Democratic establishment pushing a Presidential candidate who is strongly to the right of Nixon on economics and defense, but they are still vigorously trying to defeat progressive candidates further down ticket.
For example, in the US senate race in Florida, Obama and Biden are supporting Patrick Murphy in the Florida primary over leading candidate Grayson - even though Murphy was a *Republican* until 2012. Think about that.
Democrats play good cop to the Republican bad cop, and assume economic liberals have "nowhere else to go".
You can blame the unpopularity of Hillary on Bernie, or start to ask yourself why liberals and populists might be incensed or demoralized by decades of establishment Democrats fighting *against* them, and asserting with disdain that progressives "have no place else to go".
The initial media blackout on Bernie, the scheduling of very few debates on low viewership dates, the commitment of most superdelegates before a single vote was cast.
But that only addresses the establishment fight at the presidential level.
Not only is the Democratic establishment pushing a Presidential candidate who is strongly to the right of Nixon on economics and defense, but they are still vigorously trying to defeat progressive candidates further down ticket.
For example, in the US senate race in Florida, Obama and Biden are supporting Patrick Murphy in the Florida primary over leading candidate Grayson - even though Murphy was a *Republican* until 2012. Think about that.
Democrats play good cop to the Republican bad cop, and assume economic liberals have "nowhere else to go".
You can blame the unpopularity of Hillary on Bernie, or start to ask yourself why liberals and populists might be incensed or demoralized by decades of establishment Democrats fighting *against* them, and asserting with disdain that progressives "have no place else to go".
9
I read here again and again from Sanders' supporters that they want a political system that does not make our election system depend on corporate and special interest money. I have been a Democrat for fifty years and a progressive one. There are only two ways to BEGIN to get the special interest money out of our politics, since the Republican dominated Supreme Court decided Citizens United. The first would be to have the Supreme Court reverse the decision. For that, you would need a Democrat as President. The second is to amend the Constitution.
In 2012, the party platform promised to do that, if necessary. In 2014, the Democrats in the Senate introduced such an amendment allowing Congress and the states to pass laws to regulate the matter. It was the first step in a long and difficult process. All the Democrats voted for it. All the Republicans opposed and, as usual, threatened a filibuster if they didn't get their way - - requiring a super majority of 60 votes to pass it.
Mr. Rosenthal's cynicism about the party's platform is DEAD WRONG. The Democratic Party does intend to deliver on its platform and does try to do so. It is blocked by the Republican Party. I am not enraptured by Ms. Clinton. I am not enraptured by Mr. Sanders. All politicians have flaws - Where are Sanders' tax returns?
But the Democratic Party is the party fighting for equal opportunity and it stands by its platform. I hope Mr. Sanders moves it further left. But I will vote Democrat. Cynics be damned.
In 2012, the party platform promised to do that, if necessary. In 2014, the Democrats in the Senate introduced such an amendment allowing Congress and the states to pass laws to regulate the matter. It was the first step in a long and difficult process. All the Democrats voted for it. All the Republicans opposed and, as usual, threatened a filibuster if they didn't get their way - - requiring a super majority of 60 votes to pass it.
Mr. Rosenthal's cynicism about the party's platform is DEAD WRONG. The Democratic Party does intend to deliver on its platform and does try to do so. It is blocked by the Republican Party. I am not enraptured by Ms. Clinton. I am not enraptured by Mr. Sanders. All politicians have flaws - Where are Sanders' tax returns?
But the Democratic Party is the party fighting for equal opportunity and it stands by its platform. I hope Mr. Sanders moves it further left. But I will vote Democrat. Cynics be damned.
7
Once again the media and those who have easy access to it blame Sanders for the pathetic weakness of the Democratic candidate.
The Democratic primary was organized to give Clinton an unfair advantage.
It is obvious by the resistance of Clinton to truly getting behind the more progress program of a working class Democratic party that she and the upper middle class leadership of Democratic party still don't get it.
They still don't get that any foreign war is still a war against the poor, the working class, and majority of Americans.
They still don't get that saving the planet and true economic equality require radical action now.
They still don't get that ending black and latino oppression require radical action now.
So ,if you want Bernie to go away ,ask yourself why the upper middle class privileged Clinton has not really joined Bernie in an American quest for social,racial,economic, and gender equality.
The Democratic primary was organized to give Clinton an unfair advantage.
It is obvious by the resistance of Clinton to truly getting behind the more progress program of a working class Democratic party that she and the upper middle class leadership of Democratic party still don't get it.
They still don't get that any foreign war is still a war against the poor, the working class, and majority of Americans.
They still don't get that saving the planet and true economic equality require radical action now.
They still don't get that ending black and latino oppression require radical action now.
So ,if you want Bernie to go away ,ask yourself why the upper middle class privileged Clinton has not really joined Bernie in an American quest for social,racial,economic, and gender equality.
7
If I'm to support a self-admitted friend of Kissinger and devout neocon, I really could use a clear sign from our corporatist nominee that she shall fight tooth and nail for a carbon tax and a serious correction of our wealth disparity (campaign finance included).
She cannot have it both ways; keeping her clientelism in place, while addressing these pressing issues.
So far, she has refused to directly address the large swath of progressive Democrats and fair-minded Independents who helped Bernie take over 45% of the delegates.
The ball is in her court and she should mind the Brexit vote, while deciding her next move.
She cannot have it both ways; keeping her clientelism in place, while addressing these pressing issues.
So far, she has refused to directly address the large swath of progressive Democrats and fair-minded Independents who helped Bernie take over 45% of the delegates.
The ball is in her court and she should mind the Brexit vote, while deciding her next move.
16
Mrs. Clinton needs to convince us that she is authentic and has integrity. I don't doubt that she once did, but power and money corrupt and she has given no indications that is not beholden to special interests. Trump and Sanders are beholden to few and that is why they have inspired so much support. We are tired of corporations and special interests running the country.
Having said that, I will vote for HRC in November, but the onus in on her to convince the younger voters to turn out and vote for her. Show us the inspired idealistic woman from Wellesley Mrs. Clinton, not the Wall Street speaking, Foundation funding, entitled self-interested politician. That's what we want in 2016.
Having said that, I will vote for HRC in November, but the onus in on her to convince the younger voters to turn out and vote for her. Show us the inspired idealistic woman from Wellesley Mrs. Clinton, not the Wall Street speaking, Foundation funding, entitled self-interested politician. That's what we want in 2016.
7
I wonder if Sanders can actually undue the effects of the unsavory mocking, goading, and use of licentious innuendo he used to attack Hillary.
After all, his young audience is still quite impressionable and got so brainwashed by Sanders's promises of free college and the absolution of their student loan debt, they may never get it that they were used. Even in light of another firearm massacre, they certainly don't seem to mind that he voted against the Brady Bill and the PLCAA, the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. Both times his votes were to ensure he would continue to get re-elected. With half his state having a gun owner constituency, he needed to throw a bone or two the way of the NRA, the Gun Lobby, and Gun Manufacturers. And he'd never would have made those states out west and in the mid-section of the country competitive without gun owners.
How many Millennials can look in the mirror and honestly admit they had any interest in what Bernie Sanders had to say, let alone even heard of him, before they started reading texts about some senator wanting to make college free and get rid of student loan debt? I believe the jury's out on what Bernie Sanders gave our nation when he caught the attention of a vulnerable generation. Now if only there are some media types who will write about what Sanders's was at its core. Revolution or Ponzi scene? (You know there's a book, six figure speaking fees, and cushy jobs for Sanders and his wife coming soon. Stay tuned.)
After all, his young audience is still quite impressionable and got so brainwashed by Sanders's promises of free college and the absolution of their student loan debt, they may never get it that they were used. Even in light of another firearm massacre, they certainly don't seem to mind that he voted against the Brady Bill and the PLCAA, the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. Both times his votes were to ensure he would continue to get re-elected. With half his state having a gun owner constituency, he needed to throw a bone or two the way of the NRA, the Gun Lobby, and Gun Manufacturers. And he'd never would have made those states out west and in the mid-section of the country competitive without gun owners.
How many Millennials can look in the mirror and honestly admit they had any interest in what Bernie Sanders had to say, let alone even heard of him, before they started reading texts about some senator wanting to make college free and get rid of student loan debt? I believe the jury's out on what Bernie Sanders gave our nation when he caught the attention of a vulnerable generation. Now if only there are some media types who will write about what Sanders's was at its core. Revolution or Ponzi scene? (You know there's a book, six figure speaking fees, and cushy jobs for Sanders and his wife coming soon. Stay tuned.)
6
The "the unsavory mocking, goading, and use of licentious innuendo" that you refer to has come from the Clinton camp. Stop berating Sanders and try finding a way forward that includes those that support him. (Or perhaps you're really for the other guy.)
2
This election has never been about Bernie Sanders. This election is about the sense of betrayal and abandonment of progressive values by the formerly progressive (but no longer progressive) Democratic Party leadership. Nothing Bernie Sanders can say or do will change that fact. Only the Democratic Leadership and its chosen candidate can change that----but they have been quite clear than they have no such intentions. Hillary Clinton represents the very same establishment, neocon, warmongering, Wall Street criminal elements that motivated progressive voters to vote for change-----which just happened to be in the person of Sanders. Ms. Clinton cannot earn our votes because she is precisely what we were voting against---and will continue to vote against.
17
When was the last time there was a "progressive" Democratic Party. Certainly not Obama or Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter. LBJ, FDR?
What we desperately need from Sanders is for him to channel the energy and passion of his supporters to turn the Congress and the state houses blue so that progressive legislation can be enacted.
We saw that clearly on Wednesday night, with the Republican shut down of any action on gun violence in the House. The Republicans won't bring any legislation to a vote unless a majority of the majority supports it (the Hastert rule, which should now be known as the convicted felon rule). Thus, the House refused to act on laws that 90% of the population supports, and they get away with this because local gerrymandering has ensured that their seats are safe. Paul Ryan, making Bull Connor and George Wallace look like moderates, tried to shut down press on the sit-in (by turning of the cameras), smirkingly took one-sided votes on unrelated issues, and then absconded with his GOP colleagues in the dead of night.
This will be the fate of all progressive legislation unless the Republicans are voted out of the House, the Senate and the state houses.
We saw that clearly on Wednesday night, with the Republican shut down of any action on gun violence in the House. The Republicans won't bring any legislation to a vote unless a majority of the majority supports it (the Hastert rule, which should now be known as the convicted felon rule). Thus, the House refused to act on laws that 90% of the population supports, and they get away with this because local gerrymandering has ensured that their seats are safe. Paul Ryan, making Bull Connor and George Wallace look like moderates, tried to shut down press on the sit-in (by turning of the cameras), smirkingly took one-sided votes on unrelated issues, and then absconded with his GOP colleagues in the dead of night.
This will be the fate of all progressive legislation unless the Republicans are voted out of the House, the Senate and the state houses.
8
Thoughts: I also just watched Senator Sanders in a poorly executed interview on network television where he pretty much lied. Of course, he repeated his never-varying monologue about income inequality and basically tried to exploit Brexit to make his point (again). He then said that he wanted to hear Ms. Clinton support free college education, a $15 minimum wage and universal health care. It was a very sad interview. Sanders seems to be disassociating with reality. Ms. Clinton endorsed free college education earlier this week. She endorsed a minimum wage much higher than the present one ($12 vs. Bernie's $15 - but of course, Bernie won't compromise). And Ms. Clinton was battling for universal health care when all Bernie was worrying about was whether trash was picked up on Main Street. Sanders is a demagogue just like Mr. Trump.
16
Forget Trump, that election will take care of itself. Senator Sanders and his supporters need to focus on electing a Congress that will pass the progressive legislation he advocates. That requires electing 14 additional progressive senators for a filibuster-proof majority and at least 30 additional progressive members of the House. Those are achievable goals. For example, four of Wisconsin’s five Republican congressmen represent districts that have voted Democratic in presidential elections. That includes Speaker Ryan’s district that was once held by Les Aspin and the 7th District that elected Dave Obey for many years. Achieve that goal Bernie, and lead a progressive caucus that will pass the legislation you eloquently promoted.
22
It is time to realize that Bernie Sanders wants Trump to win. A victory for Trump will arguably do more to foster his revolution than another moderate president. Sanders will continue to work to damage Clinton. It is time for Clinton to stop trying to win over Sanders childish army and move to the right. She has a far better change to win over business-oriented Republicans than the hardcore Sanders supporters. If Trump's words alone aren't enough to bring Sander's supporters into the fold, there is little Clinton will be able to say or do that will convince them.
7
Sanders gives a voice to a large segment of the US population. He speaks for those who have been left out of the economy, who are burdened with crushing debt, who work from paycheck to paycheck and who have little hope of kick-starting their own American dream because the foundations that allow the pursuit of that dream have evaporated.
Hillary demanded concessions from Obama behind closed doors before publically endorsing him in 2008. He paid off her campaign debt and agreed to appoint her SoS. Clinton has made it perfectly clear she has no intention of conceding anything outside of refashioning some of Sanders' ideals to suit her campaign soundbites. If she had, Sanders would have endorsed her after their post-California meeting. She had the chance to bring him into the fold and that opportunity has now passed.
One think HRC supporters seem very good at, beside the condescending attitude towrd Sanders supporters, is reminding them that the rules are the rules and complaining about them post-primary is inappropriate. So I say to Clinton supporters, the rules are the rules and Sanders, with about 45% of primary votes, has the right to go to the convention to negotiate a platform. Deal with it!
I think the real pushback from Democaratic regulars is their fear that HRC is a deeply-flawed candidate. She should be blowing DT out of the water and she can't, even with a $40M advantage. She chose to continue her neoliberal tack and now she has to confront that decision.
Hillary demanded concessions from Obama behind closed doors before publically endorsing him in 2008. He paid off her campaign debt and agreed to appoint her SoS. Clinton has made it perfectly clear she has no intention of conceding anything outside of refashioning some of Sanders' ideals to suit her campaign soundbites. If she had, Sanders would have endorsed her after their post-California meeting. She had the chance to bring him into the fold and that opportunity has now passed.
One think HRC supporters seem very good at, beside the condescending attitude towrd Sanders supporters, is reminding them that the rules are the rules and complaining about them post-primary is inappropriate. So I say to Clinton supporters, the rules are the rules and Sanders, with about 45% of primary votes, has the right to go to the convention to negotiate a platform. Deal with it!
I think the real pushback from Democaratic regulars is their fear that HRC is a deeply-flawed candidate. She should be blowing DT out of the water and she can't, even with a $40M advantage. She chose to continue her neoliberal tack and now she has to confront that decision.
150
"The rules are the rules" because political contests are warlike. People committed to the Democratic Party have quietly been doing a lot of work for years to build the machinery that could resist the Republican Party .... in the Congress, in the states, and locally.
Ever read the story of Henny Penny? The hard-working hen finds seed, plants wheat, harvests wheat, grinds wheat, and at every stage she asks for other barnyard animals to help out. They refuse. They have better things to do. Then she bakes bread. It smells delicious. The sheep and the cows and geese gather to ask for slices of the bread.
But the hen tells them "sorry. You didn't help me plant the seed, harvest the wheat, grind the seed, or bake the bread."
Any progressive who derides the Democratic Party as inherently corrupt and equivalent to GOP fails to recognize all the hard work required to maintain a functional (combative, organized) political party in the US.
It's the new theme, obviously. It bores me. You want to change the party? Get to work. Host dinners. Plan fundraisers. Choose good candidates down-ticket. Help bake the bread.
Ever read the story of Henny Penny? The hard-working hen finds seed, plants wheat, harvests wheat, grinds wheat, and at every stage she asks for other barnyard animals to help out. They refuse. They have better things to do. Then she bakes bread. It smells delicious. The sheep and the cows and geese gather to ask for slices of the bread.
But the hen tells them "sorry. You didn't help me plant the seed, harvest the wheat, grind the seed, or bake the bread."
Any progressive who derides the Democratic Party as inherently corrupt and equivalent to GOP fails to recognize all the hard work required to maintain a functional (combative, organized) political party in the US.
It's the new theme, obviously. It bores me. You want to change the party? Get to work. Host dinners. Plan fundraisers. Choose good candidates down-ticket. Help bake the bread.
4
I voted for Sanders but will put all of my support behind Clinton. A Trump presidency and its ensuing horrors is unfathomable. Instead of refusing to back Clinton maybe the Sanders supporters should be emailing Clinton's staff with their concerns and direction they would like to see Democratic policies go.
I received an email survey from Sanders last night. It asked what issues were the most important including, but not limited to: banks/financial institution reform, Guantanamo Bay, minimum wage, rewrite NAFTA, paid family leave/vacation, free college, ban private prisons, lift SS cap, climate change and more. I imagine that Clinton would also like to engage her supporters in voicing our concerns. Instead of turning our backs on the presumptive nominee and almost guaranteeing a Trump presidency, maybe we should consolidate our efforts and push the agenda leftward. 45% of voters supported Sander. It's only fair that their voices be heard. We shouldn't remain silent, or sulk. We need to actively get involved in the Clinton campaign. We need to demand a more progressive agenda. But most importantly, we need to show up and vote. Sanders didn't put all his time, heart and soul into campaigning for change to just have us turn our backs on his agenda just because he didn't win. We need to unite to see his agenda move forward. We can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.Trump will destroy everything Bernie and progressives have worked for. Are you willing to throw it all away?
I received an email survey from Sanders last night. It asked what issues were the most important including, but not limited to: banks/financial institution reform, Guantanamo Bay, minimum wage, rewrite NAFTA, paid family leave/vacation, free college, ban private prisons, lift SS cap, climate change and more. I imagine that Clinton would also like to engage her supporters in voicing our concerns. Instead of turning our backs on the presumptive nominee and almost guaranteeing a Trump presidency, maybe we should consolidate our efforts and push the agenda leftward. 45% of voters supported Sander. It's only fair that their voices be heard. We shouldn't remain silent, or sulk. We need to actively get involved in the Clinton campaign. We need to demand a more progressive agenda. But most importantly, we need to show up and vote. Sanders didn't put all his time, heart and soul into campaigning for change to just have us turn our backs on his agenda just because he didn't win. We need to unite to see his agenda move forward. We can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.Trump will destroy everything Bernie and progressives have worked for. Are you willing to throw it all away?
182
A Hillary supporter during the past months, I viewed Bernie as a competitor to be defeated; I was more attuned to comical caricatures of the man than to what he so nobly tried to accomplish. Now that I can take his measure more dispassionately, I see a principled man who has waged political fights all his life with a profound commitment to righting social and financial injustices, and to alleviating the plight of the multitudes. His remarkable career, unique in our political history, was sustained by supporters who believed in his sincerity and were inspired by this champion of "lost" causes. The manner in which he chooses to support Hillary, participate in her campaign and in the future direction of the Democratic Party will be true to his character, his principles and his vision for America, and no one should expect him to handle those difficult decisions in any other way. Go, Bernie!
153
What, Paul Ryan has no Aaliyah?
I watched Steven Spielberg's "Lincoln" this week. There is a scene that I love, that I could watch over and over. It's set at Appamattox, where Robert E. Lee is surrendering to Ulysses Grant. As the defeated general prepares to leave, Grant removes his hat. His officers, with varying degrees of enthusiasm, follow suit. And Lee actually musters a tiny smile as he tips his own hat and rides away.
It's such a beautiful gesture of respect toward a defeated enemy who fought valiantly and well before acknowledging the obvious. It would be such a healing moment if a similar scene could play out between Clinton and Sanders. But first, he has to surrender.
It's such a beautiful gesture of respect toward a defeated enemy who fought valiantly and well before acknowledging the obvious. It would be such a healing moment if a similar scene could play out between Clinton and Sanders. But first, he has to surrender.
8
Let me put it this way. The best candidate out of Bernie Sanders, Hillary and Trump, undoubtedly is Bernie Sanders but unfortunately he is not the official Democratic Party candidate. Now what next.
Trump never had any political experience except that he is a very successful businessman. Businessman and people's welfare don't go hand in hand.
Hillary has had plenty of experience with some tag, which is negative of course. Trump has plenty of negatives and many Americans are shocked beyond words. To expect Bernie Sanders to wholeheartedly support Hillary or provide his strategy, which he didn't have any since he campaigned sincerely what he believed in, is a bit strange.
To expect Bernie Sanders supporters to blindly vote in favour of Hillary is asking for too much. Perhaps some of them will vote in her favour and majority might abstain and so do some Republican voters.
What are the chances of Hillary then ?
1) Her strong base cultivated over a period of time.
2) Her charisma and power of speeches.
3) The fact that she is the first woman Presidential candidate on either side.
4) Her experience, knowledge and understanding of the people to some extent.
5) Utterances of Donald Trump from time to time.
6) Confusion in the Republican Party ranks about its reputation on account of Trump.
7) Possibility of a number of dedicated Republican voters abstaining from voting.
You have to face it, Hillary or Trump and who is your best bet under the circumstances ?
Trump never had any political experience except that he is a very successful businessman. Businessman and people's welfare don't go hand in hand.
Hillary has had plenty of experience with some tag, which is negative of course. Trump has plenty of negatives and many Americans are shocked beyond words. To expect Bernie Sanders to wholeheartedly support Hillary or provide his strategy, which he didn't have any since he campaigned sincerely what he believed in, is a bit strange.
To expect Bernie Sanders supporters to blindly vote in favour of Hillary is asking for too much. Perhaps some of them will vote in her favour and majority might abstain and so do some Republican voters.
What are the chances of Hillary then ?
1) Her strong base cultivated over a period of time.
2) Her charisma and power of speeches.
3) The fact that she is the first woman Presidential candidate on either side.
4) Her experience, knowledge and understanding of the people to some extent.
5) Utterances of Donald Trump from time to time.
6) Confusion in the Republican Party ranks about its reputation on account of Trump.
7) Possibility of a number of dedicated Republican voters abstaining from voting.
You have to face it, Hillary or Trump and who is your best bet under the circumstances ?
5
The country is going to get a revolution whether the moderates, like the author, want one or not. "Leave" was treated as even more insane in the UK than Trump, but now it's happening. If Hillary keeps being center-right, she'll definitely lose to Trump. To win, she needs to match the energy and fervor of his supporters. She can't do that by saying she'll consider minor tweaks to the current system. She needs to embrace the populist left to match the avalanche of popular discontent Trump is bringing from the right. Even with Sanders still in the race, Hillary is already overconfident of her chances in November. If he drops out before the convention, she'll stay exactly as she is and will crash along with the status quo in the general.
Also, if the author wants support from Sanders, he might want to at least fake having convictions. Constantly repeating that the party platform is just paper damages the Hillary wing's credibility and removes incentive to compromise with her.
Also, if the author wants support from Sanders, he might want to at least fake having convictions. Constantly repeating that the party platform is just paper damages the Hillary wing's credibility and removes incentive to compromise with her.
15
The prob isn't that Clinton's been center-right. It's that too many of Sanders' voters have no earthly idea what that even means, and are now busily preparing excuses for why they aren't going to show up and vote.
Which, based on the primary results, they weren't going to do anyway.
Which, based on the primary results, they weren't going to do anyway.
4
Clinton's lies about convenience, and her bulldozing, bobble-headed worshippers chanting "I'm with her" threaten the nation, because already mainstream media has turned against simple fact and legal consequences.
The difference is highlighted here:
In a Wall Street Journal op-ed titled Clinton’s Emails: A Criminal Charge Is Justified, former attorney general Michael B. Mukasey states the case for Clinton’s prosecution:
When asked whether she had her server “wiped,” she assumed an air of grandmotherly befuddlement: “What, like with a cloth or something?” she said. “I don’t know how it works digitally at all.”
...Whatever the findings from that part of the probe, intelligence-community investigators believe it is nearly certain that Mrs. Clinton’s server was hacked, possibly by the Chinese or the Russians. This raises the distinct possibility that she would be subject to blackmail in connection with those transactions and whatever else was on that server by people with hostile intent against this country...
The simple proposition that everyone is equal before the law suggests that Mrs. Clinton’s state of mind—whether mere knowledge of what she was doing as to mishandling classified information; or gross negligence in the case of the mishandling of information relating to national defense; or bad intent as to actual or attempted destruction of email messages; or corrupt intent as to State Department business—justifies a criminal charge of one sort or another.
The difference is highlighted here:
In a Wall Street Journal op-ed titled Clinton’s Emails: A Criminal Charge Is Justified, former attorney general Michael B. Mukasey states the case for Clinton’s prosecution:
When asked whether she had her server “wiped,” she assumed an air of grandmotherly befuddlement: “What, like with a cloth or something?” she said. “I don’t know how it works digitally at all.”
...Whatever the findings from that part of the probe, intelligence-community investigators believe it is nearly certain that Mrs. Clinton’s server was hacked, possibly by the Chinese or the Russians. This raises the distinct possibility that she would be subject to blackmail in connection with those transactions and whatever else was on that server by people with hostile intent against this country...
The simple proposition that everyone is equal before the law suggests that Mrs. Clinton’s state of mind—whether mere knowledge of what she was doing as to mishandling classified information; or gross negligence in the case of the mishandling of information relating to national defense; or bad intent as to actual or attempted destruction of email messages; or corrupt intent as to State Department business—justifies a criminal charge of one sort or another.
13
Whoa there. Regarding email security, we know the servers of the state department were hacked during Sec. Clinton's time in office. We also know, because he testified to that regard, that attempts were made to hack Sec. Clinton's server, but the attempt failed. On the whole, the security of the Clinton server weathered better than the government machines.
No matter what comes to light, no one is talking about criminal charges - unless you get your news entirely from USUncut or Breitbach. Nothing she did was criminal. Clinton did nothing that would benefit her personally - she profited in no way, and arguments of corruption are more light than heat.
No matter what comes to light, no one is talking about criminal charges - unless you get your news entirely from USUncut or Breitbach. Nothing she did was criminal. Clinton did nothing that would benefit her personally - she profited in no way, and arguments of corruption are more light than heat.
6
It's astonishing that anyone would use Michael Mukasey, a Republican politician, attorney general during the Iraq War, and strong supporter of waterboarding, as a source for complaints about political or legal ethics.
"...Whatever the findings from that part of the probe, intelligence-community investigators believe it is nearly certain that Mrs. Clinton’s server was hacked, possibly by the Chinese or the Russians. This raises the distinct possibility that she would be subject to blackmail in connection with those transactions and whatever else was on that server by people with hostile intent against this country..."
Totally illogical. What would the Chinese or Russians blackmail her about? The contents of the emails, most of which she did not write?
BTW, most of US government's networks have been hacked. Thousands of emails, cables, documents, etc., embarrassing to the US have been released to the public. Remember Edward Snowden?
"...Whatever the findings from that part of the probe, intelligence-community investigators believe it is nearly certain that Mrs. Clinton’s server was hacked, possibly by the Chinese or the Russians. This raises the distinct possibility that she would be subject to blackmail in connection with those transactions and whatever else was on that server by people with hostile intent against this country..."
Totally illogical. What would the Chinese or Russians blackmail her about? The contents of the emails, most of which she did not write?
BTW, most of US government's networks have been hacked. Thousands of emails, cables, documents, etc., embarrassing to the US have been released to the public. Remember Edward Snowden?
6
Key observation in this opinion, followed by a characteristic lack of logic:
"If he wants a reward, fine. The Clinton campaign, for example, can make concessions on the party platform, which nobody talks about except on the day it’s adopted at the convention.
But still, some Sanders supporters are maintaining they just won’t be able to vote for mean old Hillary. "
Sanders was not followed because of his good looks or extreme skills in oratory (Obama comes to mind) or by being adept in disparaging his opponent and extreme stands that appeal to many groups (Trump). To convince his supporters, and perhaps more importantly, the independents who order their preferences as Sanders, Trump, Clinton, one needs more than "concessions on the party platform with no intention to remember them".
A hasty endorsement would just convince the erstwhile followers that "Sanders is just a pol, after all". Clinton needs a "learning trip" as she did when she run for the Senate first time, and adjust her own platform and advisors.
"If he wants a reward, fine. The Clinton campaign, for example, can make concessions on the party platform, which nobody talks about except on the day it’s adopted at the convention.
But still, some Sanders supporters are maintaining they just won’t be able to vote for mean old Hillary. "
Sanders was not followed because of his good looks or extreme skills in oratory (Obama comes to mind) or by being adept in disparaging his opponent and extreme stands that appeal to many groups (Trump). To convince his supporters, and perhaps more importantly, the independents who order their preferences as Sanders, Trump, Clinton, one needs more than "concessions on the party platform with no intention to remember them".
A hasty endorsement would just convince the erstwhile followers that "Sanders is just a pol, after all". Clinton needs a "learning trip" as she did when she run for the Senate first time, and adjust her own platform and advisors.
12
"A hasty endorsement would just convince the erstwhile followers that "Sanders is just a pol, after all". Clinton needs a "learning trip" as she did when she run for the Senate first time, and adjust her own platform and advisors."
I partly agree with this comment. Unfortunately, there are some Sanders supporters who will not vote for Hillary under any realistic circumstances. Their hatred of Clinton is so virulent that they would interpret any actions by her or the DNC as insincere window dressing. Even an endorsement by Sanders would not prevail over their hatred.
I partly agree with this comment. Unfortunately, there are some Sanders supporters who will not vote for Hillary under any realistic circumstances. Their hatred of Clinton is so virulent that they would interpret any actions by her or the DNC as insincere window dressing. Even an endorsement by Sanders would not prevail over their hatred.
4
I fear that a Hillary Clinton Administration will be nothing more than a retreaded Bill Clinton Administration with the same Wall Street movers and shakers further eroding our economy and exporting blue-collar jobs with "free-trade treaties" for diplomatic gains.
Hillary represents status-quo to a nation tired of 30 years of economic stasis.
Hillary represents status-quo to a nation tired of 30 years of economic stasis.
Once again the Democratic Party machine reaches out to bite itself in the posterior. None of this gnash of teeth and wringing of hands would be necessary if they hadn't settled on Hillary Clinton as a candidate long before a single vote was cast. While I will vote for her, I am not pleased to have to do so. I have arrived at my decision after long and hard inspection, coming to the conclusion that the world would be much worse if Trump is elected. The Democratic Party cannot make demands on its candidates any more than it can make demands on people, many of whom only voted at all because they saw in Sanders a unique chance at a new direction. They either will make the decision I did, or they won't, and no amount of whining, no frequency of demanding, no amount of shaming will likely have any positive effect...at least positive as defined by the Democratic Party.
Bernie Sanders is keeping his hand in, to the degree he is, in order to keep Clinton from pivoting away from her attempt to turn far enough to the left to wrestle a win from Sanders in the primaries. She surely will if left to her own devices, given that she is really a neoconservative. By staying in and using his 1900 delegates and proven 12 million voters to force her to incorporate a more progressive agenda, he may actually do more to help her win in November than he could ever do by smiling and fading into the white noise.
Bernie Sanders is keeping his hand in, to the degree he is, in order to keep Clinton from pivoting away from her attempt to turn far enough to the left to wrestle a win from Sanders in the primaries. She surely will if left to her own devices, given that she is really a neoconservative. By staying in and using his 1900 delegates and proven 12 million voters to force her to incorporate a more progressive agenda, he may actually do more to help her win in November than he could ever do by smiling and fading into the white noise.
165
You might want to tell the other neoconservatives that they support rational gun control, women's healthcare, immigration reform, support for new jobs and infrastructure, etc. Seriously!
3
Another mass shooting and no one questions why Bernie Sanders continues to get a free ride when it comes to his siding with the NRA, the Gun Lobby, and gun manufacturers as he continues to defend his voting against the Brady Bill and for the PLCAA, the act that ensures Gun Manufacturers and dealers cannot be sued.
Remember, this is a candidate who claims to be the supreme Progressive, the candidate whose vision will benefit everyone in the most meaningful ways. All except those who die due to gun violence that is.
Since the Sandy Hook massacre another 100,000 individuals have died due to gun violence. Yes, 100,000. And still Sanders states that it would be unfair to the 'mom and pop gun stores' to vote against the PLCAA, The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, making the gun industry the only industry that cannot be sued even though their product results in deaths that could be avoided by simple means. The science is out there, proven and not costly. As simple as the seat belt being required in the auto industry, this method of allowing only the owner of the firearm able to discharge the weapon would save countless lives. But Sanders needs a bone to throw to the NRA, the Gun Lobby, and gun manufacturers, not to mention the gun owners (half his home state are gun owners and he needs to keep them happy or he'd never get elected, and those states out west and in the mid-section of the country he won during the primaries, yeah, gun owner states.)
Remember, this is a candidate who claims to be the supreme Progressive, the candidate whose vision will benefit everyone in the most meaningful ways. All except those who die due to gun violence that is.
Since the Sandy Hook massacre another 100,000 individuals have died due to gun violence. Yes, 100,000. And still Sanders states that it would be unfair to the 'mom and pop gun stores' to vote against the PLCAA, The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, making the gun industry the only industry that cannot be sued even though their product results in deaths that could be avoided by simple means. The science is out there, proven and not costly. As simple as the seat belt being required in the auto industry, this method of allowing only the owner of the firearm able to discharge the weapon would save countless lives. But Sanders needs a bone to throw to the NRA, the Gun Lobby, and gun manufacturers, not to mention the gun owners (half his home state are gun owners and he needs to keep them happy or he'd never get elected, and those states out west and in the mid-section of the country he won during the primaries, yeah, gun owner states.)
16
I have voted Democrat for over 30 years. I also have been a long time supporter of the ideas that Bernie's platform and his campaign have coalesced. These are not radical notions. It is saddening to see that so many Democrats are content with the false pragmatism of neoliberal Democratic elites who preach the social platform but practice a far more conservative brand of economic and foreign policy and whose courtship of corporate sponsorship is anything but Democratic. I appreciate Lewis' efforts. As a 50 year old gay activist I have my own battle scars. But for Rosenthal to discredit or dismiss the activism we see happening today to fight for a platform in which we believe is disheartening and quite indicative of the very willful blindness to the fact that for which civil rights activists fought. gay activists fought, workers rights activists fought was no less seen as impossible then and yet today are nothing more than common sense. It is up to Hillary to reach out to these voters and indeed the Democratic party to embrace the issues more directly and with far greater confidence and assurances that have made Bernie's campaign record-breaking in many aspects.
17
The UK vote to leave the EU regardless of the economic damage it certainly will do to that diminishing nation is a loud and unmistakable warning that white nativism and racism are on the rise in the West.
Sanders's supporters who are even contemplating voting for Trump never were progressives, never supported pluralistic constitutional democracy and are no better than the bigots and nitwits who currently support Trump.
Sanders surely knows that Trump's proto-fascism poses a far greater and far more immediate threat to American democratic processes than does Clinton, no matter how plutocratic her loyalties.
Sanders must not let the U.S.A. and the millions of true progressives who supported him down. If he is the leader I thought I supported, then he will loudly and repeatedly urge all your supporters to not only vote for Clinton, but to work hard to defeat Trump:
John Anderson did not elect Reagan but Anderson's absence from the 1980 election would have greatly improved the course of American history.
Ralph Nader did not elect Bush but his absence from the 2000 election would prevented so much misery and loss for hundreds of millions of people, including Americans.
Sanders must not allow his less morally mature supporters help elect Trump. Sanders must speak out with all his moral authority - sooner rather than later.
Sanders's supporters who are even contemplating voting for Trump never were progressives, never supported pluralistic constitutional democracy and are no better than the bigots and nitwits who currently support Trump.
Sanders surely knows that Trump's proto-fascism poses a far greater and far more immediate threat to American democratic processes than does Clinton, no matter how plutocratic her loyalties.
Sanders must not let the U.S.A. and the millions of true progressives who supported him down. If he is the leader I thought I supported, then he will loudly and repeatedly urge all your supporters to not only vote for Clinton, but to work hard to defeat Trump:
John Anderson did not elect Reagan but Anderson's absence from the 1980 election would have greatly improved the course of American history.
Ralph Nader did not elect Bush but his absence from the 2000 election would prevented so much misery and loss for hundreds of millions of people, including Americans.
Sanders must not allow his less morally mature supporters help elect Trump. Sanders must speak out with all his moral authority - sooner rather than later.
16
It is true that Trump poses a greater immediate threat to this country than Clinton. But what Hillary's supporters don't get is that continuing with the status quo poses a greater threat than either of them. And Hillary Clinton is the embodiment of the status quo. That is why Bernie's supporters can never be convinced to support her.
1
Bernie is faced with a dilemma. On one had he is to be applauded for his efforts to reform the Democratic party from within. Ralph Nader tried, eventually concluding that it was a hopeless venture and so ran as a third candidate. Bernie for some reason thought that this year could be different. And indeed in many ways it was. He raised different issues than the traditional Democrats and raised money differently. But ultimately he failed.
So when you embrace policies that are fundamentally different than those of your political party how do you then embrace and support that which you just criticized and opposed?
The pundits, including Rosenthal argue that Trump is the real threat to what Bernie and his supporters truly stand for. He's right on that point. But the logical conclusion of that argument is that the Democratic party will never reform because the same money and corrupt power politics that make it a viable contender against similar practices by the GOP will always be turned against future efforts to reform the party from within. And they will usually win.
As long as our political world is dominated by Citizen's United, the future of our democracy will have to be pursued through third, fourth or fifth parties. This will not happen quickly or easily, but the lessor of two evils argument will always be there and if constantly followed will ultimately extinguish the flames of any internal democratic reform.
So when you embrace policies that are fundamentally different than those of your political party how do you then embrace and support that which you just criticized and opposed?
The pundits, including Rosenthal argue that Trump is the real threat to what Bernie and his supporters truly stand for. He's right on that point. But the logical conclusion of that argument is that the Democratic party will never reform because the same money and corrupt power politics that make it a viable contender against similar practices by the GOP will always be turned against future efforts to reform the party from within. And they will usually win.
As long as our political world is dominated by Citizen's United, the future of our democracy will have to be pursued through third, fourth or fifth parties. This will not happen quickly or easily, but the lessor of two evils argument will always be there and if constantly followed will ultimately extinguish the flames of any internal democratic reform.
85
Do you know the Dems voted for legislation to end CU? If not then you should and stop trashing the Dem party, one we can all be proud of this week.
5
With Brexit a fact and with several European countries’ nationalistic parties trying to follow Britain in furthering weakening the EU, it is important for the 2016 US election to stand up against these nationalistic tendencies abroad and particularly at home with political simpleton Trump. Thus, Sanders and his supporters have an important role to play in this election.
Given that the Sanders campaign presented an invitation to Americans to reassess the fundamentals of their society and has to continue its political transformation, it is important that this fundamental rethinking continues during and especially after the election in November by being critically supportive the Clinton Administration.
If Clinton does not stick to an agreed innovative platform and both national and international developments show the need for transformational change as opposed to reformist change, the idea of a US third party in 2020 should be debated by all progressive thinkers. Such progressive party could start discussing the 1912 platform of the National Progressive Party, particularly its plank on Credit or Money Creation where public authorities reclaim their sole right of money creation from privately owned banking systems which would become regulated utilities.
Given that the Sanders campaign presented an invitation to Americans to reassess the fundamentals of their society and has to continue its political transformation, it is important that this fundamental rethinking continues during and especially after the election in November by being critically supportive the Clinton Administration.
If Clinton does not stick to an agreed innovative platform and both national and international developments show the need for transformational change as opposed to reformist change, the idea of a US third party in 2020 should be debated by all progressive thinkers. Such progressive party could start discussing the 1912 platform of the National Progressive Party, particularly its plank on Credit or Money Creation where public authorities reclaim their sole right of money creation from privately owned banking systems which would become regulated utilities.
3
The Brexit vote foreshadows our election:
• Antiestablishment, i.e., Bernie and Trump
• Americans will vote security, sovereignty and economy
• And the "Wilder effect" is in play
Bad news for Mrs. Clinton.
• Antiestablishment, i.e., Bernie and Trump
• Americans will vote security, sovereignty and economy
• And the "Wilder effect" is in play
Bad news for Mrs. Clinton.
5
Bernie can do whatever he wants. As can his supporters. "It's a free country."
I admire Bernie and wish we could live in an America transformed to function more like Sweden. Our family lived in Sweden when our children were young. The streets were safe, daycare funded, schools egalitarian.
But I get tired of belligerent comments, like many of those posted below, that attack Hillary as a Wall Street shill, coward, and warmonger, praise Bernie for his profound comprehension of the issues, and declare allegiance to Bernie's proposed "revolution."
Bernie Sanders's now famous interview with the New York Daily News was devastating. This man knows how to preach for good causes, but he never figures out the details. They don't interest him much.
Hillary does grasp details. She comprehends that negotiation and diplomacy require patience and some flexibility. During her term as New York's representative, her voting record established her as the 11th most liberal member of the Senate.
It's invigorating to declare ongoing allegiance to a "revolution." But a "revolutionary" president is helpless if he or she can't influence Congress ...
which happens to be filled with Republicans. Think: Ryan, McConnell, Cruz. We ain't Sweden. The US is a vast confederation of fifty different states.
Given those conditions, I prefer a seasoned diplomat to a preachy purist from Vermont.
Donald Trump terrifies me.
I admire Bernie and wish we could live in an America transformed to function more like Sweden. Our family lived in Sweden when our children were young. The streets were safe, daycare funded, schools egalitarian.
But I get tired of belligerent comments, like many of those posted below, that attack Hillary as a Wall Street shill, coward, and warmonger, praise Bernie for his profound comprehension of the issues, and declare allegiance to Bernie's proposed "revolution."
Bernie Sanders's now famous interview with the New York Daily News was devastating. This man knows how to preach for good causes, but he never figures out the details. They don't interest him much.
Hillary does grasp details. She comprehends that negotiation and diplomacy require patience and some flexibility. During her term as New York's representative, her voting record established her as the 11th most liberal member of the Senate.
It's invigorating to declare ongoing allegiance to a "revolution." But a "revolutionary" president is helpless if he or she can't influence Congress ...
which happens to be filled with Republicans. Think: Ryan, McConnell, Cruz. We ain't Sweden. The US is a vast confederation of fifty different states.
Given those conditions, I prefer a seasoned diplomat to a preachy purist from Vermont.
Donald Trump terrifies me.
27
Mr. Rosenthal, thank you for this full throated plea to Bernie/supporters to not just act sanely, but act with passion.
The Republican Party is dangerous, not just Trump. Consider Republicans dedication to the 2nd Amendment (not the actual 2nd Amendment in the Constitution, a 2nd amendment Scalia and Republicans have written. In the Republican version there is no need for a well regulated militia, there is just absolutely no infringement of gun rights, just an infringement of the actual language in the actual Constitution.
Are Republicans dangerous? You decide. The Republican Party has decided there cannot be ANY gun regulations, not to have meaningful background checks, not to make it illegal for suspected terrorists to buy military assault weapons, not to buy a weapon of mass destruction. No, there can be absolutely no regulations that could impose any inconvenience on buying and carrying guns. And Republicans are sure you will appreciate that if a loved one is killed in a mass shooting or simply is one of the 90 plus who die everyday from a gun shot; as I say, Republicans are sure you will realize in your grief that they protected your and your loved one's right to buy a gun with not having the inconvenience of a background check. That will make you feel so much better. That is how dedicated Republicans are to protecting their version of your 2nd Amendment rights, not protecting your life, but your Constitutional right to die free of any inconvenience to buy a gun.
The Republican Party is dangerous, not just Trump. Consider Republicans dedication to the 2nd Amendment (not the actual 2nd Amendment in the Constitution, a 2nd amendment Scalia and Republicans have written. In the Republican version there is no need for a well regulated militia, there is just absolutely no infringement of gun rights, just an infringement of the actual language in the actual Constitution.
Are Republicans dangerous? You decide. The Republican Party has decided there cannot be ANY gun regulations, not to have meaningful background checks, not to make it illegal for suspected terrorists to buy military assault weapons, not to buy a weapon of mass destruction. No, there can be absolutely no regulations that could impose any inconvenience on buying and carrying guns. And Republicans are sure you will appreciate that if a loved one is killed in a mass shooting or simply is one of the 90 plus who die everyday from a gun shot; as I say, Republicans are sure you will realize in your grief that they protected your and your loved one's right to buy a gun with not having the inconvenience of a background check. That will make you feel so much better. That is how dedicated Republicans are to protecting their version of your 2nd Amendment rights, not protecting your life, but your Constitutional right to die free of any inconvenience to buy a gun.
144
While I agree with you with regard to the GOP, I disagree with you in that, unless the Democratic Party changes itself, it will not lead the country to better times. In order to make things better for the majority of Americans, American governance is in serious need of reform and that cannot happen from a corrupt place.
2
Bernie Sanders IS giving us what America needs...his voice and his unwillingness to disappear. If Clinton wants the support of his followers, SHE is the one who should be challenged. She needs to put forth an agenda that answers the needs of the millions of people who support Bernie. Don't get me wrong, I will vote for her, if only to stop Trump - as I suspect that most other liberal progressives will do. But to put the burden of stopping Trump on Bernie is ludicrous. Let's see Hillary campaign to earn our/their votes and not just trumpet her victory.
50
I agree. Hillary should be showing some humility and respect for the people who
who voted for Bernie. She should be coming to Bernie and asking what she can do now to win his support. Her arrogance toward Bernie's voters does not bode well for her to win in the fall.
who voted for Bernie. She should be coming to Bernie and asking what she can do now to win his support. Her arrogance toward Bernie's voters does not bode well for her to win in the fall.
3
Bernie's "In all likelihood" reply to Chris Cuomo pressing him hard on voting for Hillary in the general election diminishes him even further in my esteem. He is a very sore loser.
4
I voted for Bernie in the New York primary. Now, I am ashamed of myself. I was never a die-hard fan who "felt the Bern", but I was impressed by Bernie's apparent conviction to principle, and won over by his youthful record of actual "revolution"--like his arrest in 1963 for his protest in favor of civil rights. Surely, I thought, a man committed so long ago to equal rights is himself made of the "right" stuff?
Apparently not. It always baffles me how quickly men can be seduced by a whiff of power. Once Bernie realized that he might--just might--win, the naked ambition took over. It was illuminating to hear Bernie making tortuous justifications for how he could steal the Democratic convention, by relying on the very "superdelegates" who were not committed to voting according to the popular will. This is spurious logic--if the superdelegates all disappeared today, Hillary would still be the winner. You can't start a popular revolution by rigging the popular vote.
By refusing to concede, Bernie is only doing damage to the cause. He is trapped in sandcastle of his own making, building the walls higher and higher, isolating himself while the tsunami of Trumpism rushes toward the shore. Bernie needs to get down from his perch and face reality, and begin the real work of joining hands with Hillary--the popular victor--and fighting for the cause, even if it means he has to play second fiddle. There is no shame in that. The people have spoken. Will he listen?
Apparently not. It always baffles me how quickly men can be seduced by a whiff of power. Once Bernie realized that he might--just might--win, the naked ambition took over. It was illuminating to hear Bernie making tortuous justifications for how he could steal the Democratic convention, by relying on the very "superdelegates" who were not committed to voting according to the popular will. This is spurious logic--if the superdelegates all disappeared today, Hillary would still be the winner. You can't start a popular revolution by rigging the popular vote.
By refusing to concede, Bernie is only doing damage to the cause. He is trapped in sandcastle of his own making, building the walls higher and higher, isolating himself while the tsunami of Trumpism rushes toward the shore. Bernie needs to get down from his perch and face reality, and begin the real work of joining hands with Hillary--the popular victor--and fighting for the cause, even if it means he has to play second fiddle. There is no shame in that. The people have spoken. Will he listen?
69
The DNC has spoken, and yes, rigged the primary, and possibly suppressed the vote in many states. Clinton can't win on her own--that is why the Dems are so desperate. They picked a bad candidate and will have to live with the results.
2
A careful analysis of Bernie Sanders and his politics shows he has never cared enough about the issues to effectively act towards enacting them into law or compromising so that the essential elements of them can be put into meaningful legislation. He would rather pontificate and talk as though he is the only person with the answers and fighting for the people. Well, as usual Bernie, you accomplished nothing as the people rejected you. You lost by popular vote, you lost by statewide count , yet you're still in it . You love and crave the attention and more than ever it is clear you care much more about Bernie Sanders and what he claims to stand for and the adulation of the crowds than America, its people and the hope of passing any part of your agenda. Until you do the right thing for America and its people I will continue to say there is little if any difference between you and Donald Trump.
52
A number of commentators continue to suggest that Sanders lost to the media supported Democratic machine. Bernie lost because he was not able to convince the majority of people who voted in the Democrat primary that he was the person to lead the way down the path to a more progressive country.
68
There really is no sure thing, look at what just happened in Britain. Just look at things here in the US. The government just does not function except to continue to collect taxes and yes, there can be a revolution. We know Trump would lead one that would destroy the country, hopefully Clinton will lead one that will benefit us all. The Bernie people need to rally behind her and give her a big push in the right direction.
38
"Sanders has started saying the right things." Sanders has been saying all along that he will support the nominee and that the priority must be to defeat Trump. Rosenthal and other Times editorialists and columnists continue to pretend that Sanders is somehow obstructing democracy by running for office and advocating what many self-described liberal economists say is necessary and what many voters support.
Why don't the establishment Clinton supporters try to win over the Sanders supporters by actually supporting the economic reforms they agree are needed, instead of vilifying them and demanding that they shut up and fall in line? Why don't Rosenthal and the others talk about what Clinton needs to do - other than move to the right to steal votes and big donors from Republicans?
Why don't the establishment Clinton supporters try to win over the Sanders supporters by actually supporting the economic reforms they agree are needed, instead of vilifying them and demanding that they shut up and fall in line? Why don't Rosenthal and the others talk about what Clinton needs to do - other than move to the right to steal votes and big donors from Republicans?
60
"Why don't the establishment Clinton supporters try to win over the Sanders supporters by actually supporting the economic reforms they agree are needed"
Simple, their owners won't let them. You take the money, as Clinton has, and you owe your owners. Is that not completely clear?
Simple, their owners won't let them. You take the money, as Clinton has, and you owe your owners. Is that not completely clear?
2
The Times quotes Bernie:(4/10/16):
“She may have the experience to be president …but in terms of her judgment, something is clearly lacking.”
“I have my doubts about what kind of president she would make.”
"I don’t believe that she is qualified [to be president]."
Why would Bernie endorse someone he says is unqualified to be president?
Why would he disrespect his supporters—almost 50% say they would *never* vote for her—by trying to flip them?
And his unspoken reason: Her decades-long entrenched corruption that threatens our security, sovereignty & economy…& the looming indictment.
If Comey does the right thing, Bernie wants to be there to pick up the pieces.
When evaluating Clinton, one must not confuse policy with character, cold-blooded with dispassionate, calculating with wise, wonky with competent & smart, corruption with success & failure with experience.
Review her decades in & about the White House. Her abuse of women and power, her corruption, her calculated failure to protect national security, her fascistic impulses. Rwanda…
How do you rationalize Rwanda?
Clinton—the only senior official, D or R—wrong on every issue. Her mess:
Libya, Syria, Benghazi, Yemen, Honduras, Russia reset, 2 irrational, nuke-proliferating, legacy-driven deals with insane, apocalyptic signatories, 250k deaths of innocents, incalculable future deaths, unleashing of al Qaeda/ISIS, destabilization of 4 continents, Armageddon the pope, the generals and King Abdullah call WWIII.
“She may have the experience to be president …but in terms of her judgment, something is clearly lacking.”
“I have my doubts about what kind of president she would make.”
"I don’t believe that she is qualified [to be president]."
Why would Bernie endorse someone he says is unqualified to be president?
Why would he disrespect his supporters—almost 50% say they would *never* vote for her—by trying to flip them?
And his unspoken reason: Her decades-long entrenched corruption that threatens our security, sovereignty & economy…& the looming indictment.
If Comey does the right thing, Bernie wants to be there to pick up the pieces.
When evaluating Clinton, one must not confuse policy with character, cold-blooded with dispassionate, calculating with wise, wonky with competent & smart, corruption with success & failure with experience.
Review her decades in & about the White House. Her abuse of women and power, her corruption, her calculated failure to protect national security, her fascistic impulses. Rwanda…
How do you rationalize Rwanda?
Clinton—the only senior official, D or R—wrong on every issue. Her mess:
Libya, Syria, Benghazi, Yemen, Honduras, Russia reset, 2 irrational, nuke-proliferating, legacy-driven deals with insane, apocalyptic signatories, 250k deaths of innocents, incalculable future deaths, unleashing of al Qaeda/ISIS, destabilization of 4 continents, Armageddon the pope, the generals and King Abdullah call WWIII.
28
You want to blame Hillary Clinton for Rwanda? Really?
This just kills me. Rwanda may have been the event that more profoundly than anything else has shaped her foreign policy. What did we learn from that horrific period? That inaction can cause immense human suffering and unthinkable numbers of casualties. Since then, her instinct has been to use American military might to topple dictators in the name of saving lives.
Unfortunately, that often fails for different reasons. The hole made by brutal monsters invites even more unstable and bloody dissidents to seize the throne, and the innocents still die.
If we can justify any military action anywhere on the planet, the protection of vulnerable human life should be that justification. Unfortunately, we tend to fail with the nation building afterward, which destroys all the good we might have done by ending the regime of monsters who feed on the blood of their nation. A greater commitment to staying in Libya or Afghanistan to build bridges, roads, schools, would mean investment of capital and know-how, but it's just not as sexy as sending in men with guns.
But you simply cannot blame Hillary Clinton for Rwanda. Bill's failure to intervene has haunted her, as it has me.
This just kills me. Rwanda may have been the event that more profoundly than anything else has shaped her foreign policy. What did we learn from that horrific period? That inaction can cause immense human suffering and unthinkable numbers of casualties. Since then, her instinct has been to use American military might to topple dictators in the name of saving lives.
Unfortunately, that often fails for different reasons. The hole made by brutal monsters invites even more unstable and bloody dissidents to seize the throne, and the innocents still die.
If we can justify any military action anywhere on the planet, the protection of vulnerable human life should be that justification. Unfortunately, we tend to fail with the nation building afterward, which destroys all the good we might have done by ending the regime of monsters who feed on the blood of their nation. A greater commitment to staying in Libya or Afghanistan to build bridges, roads, schools, would mean investment of capital and know-how, but it's just not as sexy as sending in men with guns.
But you simply cannot blame Hillary Clinton for Rwanda. Bill's failure to intervene has haunted her, as it has me.
53
Secretary Clinton was successful in negotiating the toughest sanctions in history on Iran that facilitated the agreement delaying Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons. She has also been a consistently strong voice for women's rights and human rights in general. Hyperventilate all you want, but your list of criticism sounds suspiciously direct from Breibart.
9
"Armageddon the Pope," really summarizes the level of thought and grasp of reality on display here.
6
Yet another plea for Sanders to give up all that he has worked for all his political life! Sanders supporters will do what they will regardless. Hillary should feel some Bern. She does not embody change;she is not believable for many and in this time of urgency on many issues, she chips away at best. Her foreign policy is hawkish!
It will be her negatives against Trump's. Bernie Sanders cannot change that. Stop asking, under threat of bringing on Trump, Bernie Sanders to give u his hard earned influence to press for the direction millions of Americans have said they want this country to take.
It will be her negatives against Trump's. Bernie Sanders cannot change that. Stop asking, under threat of bringing on Trump, Bernie Sanders to give u his hard earned influence to press for the direction millions of Americans have said they want this country to take.
43
SAnder supporters should accept that in a Democracy change comes at the ballot box. A political revolution can only happen if people vote. For example, perhaps the senator can educate his followers about the importance of participating in mid term elections.
3
If the match up is Clinton s Trump, and she loses, the Dems will blame Sanders for 16 years or more, as they have Nader. No matter the reason, Clinton indictments, her being terribly unpopular and flawed, not trusted, etc., they will, in their spinelessness and cowardice, still blame Sanders.
He might as well earn it.
He might as well earn it.
1
Taking a recess from a protest? Come on folks, show the people behind you that you are serious about getting sensible gun control measures passed. We need a brand new Congress.
25
Having just seen an interview with Sen. Sanders, post Brexit vote, it is clear he is today where he always was. Same points, made the same way.
Pressed on specifics he wants from Secretary Clinton, he named a $15 minimum wage, free public college tuition, and a right to health care for all Americans (his healthcare plan, BTW, would require a $1.4 trillion, 40% increase in federal taxes according to his campaign whitepaper.)
A ''revolution,'' ''the establishment,'' etc., etc. You might think he had not lost the race by a far larger margin than Clinton's loss to Obama in 2008.
Rosenthal thinks Sanders should join the fight to stop Trump and elect Democrats to the House and Senate. Hard to see that he has any such intention based on his words and his demeanor today.
Pressed on specifics he wants from Secretary Clinton, he named a $15 minimum wage, free public college tuition, and a right to health care for all Americans (his healthcare plan, BTW, would require a $1.4 trillion, 40% increase in federal taxes according to his campaign whitepaper.)
A ''revolution,'' ''the establishment,'' etc., etc. You might think he had not lost the race by a far larger margin than Clinton's loss to Obama in 2008.
Rosenthal thinks Sanders should join the fight to stop Trump and elect Democrats to the House and Senate. Hard to see that he has any such intention based on his words and his demeanor today.
45
The reality is Hillary made a decision after leaving the WH to take tens of millions from special interests. Democrats, who supposedly at one time believed special interest money was a corrupting force, now believe special interest money is not corrupting? Lobbyists are lining up to donate hundreds of millions to Hillary's campaign and we are supposed to turn our heads and not care?
I have never read a comment explaining how if money is a corrupting force in politics, it does not corrupt Hillary. The inane comments are along the lines of, "Show me one decision she has made that was influenced by money." For God's sake. Really? Her supporters actually believe you can personally take hundreds of millions from special interests by way of speaking Fees (along with Bill), the Foundation and campaign donations, yet not be influenced by those special interests.
Sorry. You have to live under a rock to believe special interests won't control every person appointed to her cabinet and policy she sets forth. Special interests don't donate money to candidates who disagree with what they want.
So on to the new strategy. Any criticism of Hillary shows support for Trump. Yet another way of never having to address Hillary's failings.
Now on to her foreign policy which the neocons love . . .
I have never read a comment explaining how if money is a corrupting force in politics, it does not corrupt Hillary. The inane comments are along the lines of, "Show me one decision she has made that was influenced by money." For God's sake. Really? Her supporters actually believe you can personally take hundreds of millions from special interests by way of speaking Fees (along with Bill), the Foundation and campaign donations, yet not be influenced by those special interests.
Sorry. You have to live under a rock to believe special interests won't control every person appointed to her cabinet and policy she sets forth. Special interests don't donate money to candidates who disagree with what they want.
So on to the new strategy. Any criticism of Hillary shows support for Trump. Yet another way of never having to address Hillary's failings.
Now on to her foreign policy which the neocons love . . .
111
Where is any evidence that Hillary has proposed policies that favor these "special interests"? Here is some planks from her platform:
Overturn Citizens United. Hillary will appoint Supreme Court justices who value the right to vote over the right of billionaires to buy elections. She’ll push for a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United in order to restore the role of everyday voters in elections.
End secret, unaccountable money in politics. Hillary will push for legislation to require outside groups to publicly disclose significant political spending. And until Congress acts, she'll sign an executive order requiring federal government contractors to do the same. Hillary will also promote an SEC rule requiring publicly traded companies to disclose political spending to shareholders.
Amplify the voices of everyday Americans. Hillary will establish a small-donor matching system for presidential and congressional elections to incentivize small donors to participate in elections, and encourage candidates to spend more time engaging a representative cross-section of voters.
She will call for reform that closes corporate tax loopholes and drives investment here, in the U.S.
That’s how we’ll move toward a full employment economy that creates jobs, pushes businesses to compete over workers, and raises incomes.
Overturn Citizens United. Hillary will appoint Supreme Court justices who value the right to vote over the right of billionaires to buy elections. She’ll push for a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United in order to restore the role of everyday voters in elections.
End secret, unaccountable money in politics. Hillary will push for legislation to require outside groups to publicly disclose significant political spending. And until Congress acts, she'll sign an executive order requiring federal government contractors to do the same. Hillary will also promote an SEC rule requiring publicly traded companies to disclose political spending to shareholders.
Amplify the voices of everyday Americans. Hillary will establish a small-donor matching system for presidential and congressional elections to incentivize small donors to participate in elections, and encourage candidates to spend more time engaging a representative cross-section of voters.
She will call for reform that closes corporate tax loopholes and drives investment here, in the U.S.
That’s how we’ll move toward a full employment economy that creates jobs, pushes businesses to compete over workers, and raises incomes.
17
The Clintons know best how to milk the system. Being practical people they just see how best to play the cards to reap the richest harvest, forget about ideology or values or what is the right vision for our country's youth and future. Make hay while the sun shines and make it quick too before time runs out.
2
But everything will be just hunky dory with Trump's Supreme Court nominees. I am sure the first thing that a Trump appointed Supreme Court will do is overturn the Citizens United ruling.
4
Yes Bernie needed his people for his campaign and he told them he would need them again if he was president
Well, he needs them now and he needs them to vote for Clinton, big time.
Well, he needs them now and he needs them to vote for Clinton, big time.
129
The ball, I believe, is in Secretary Clinton's court. She needs to make a very public overture to Sen. Sanders, such as an offer to join her administration, in a cabinet level post. This would make it clear to the Sanders supporters that she takes their concerns seriously. Sanders cannot simply quit and throw in the towel. Well, he could, but that would simply re-enforce the legitimate cynicism of his very substantial throng of supporters. Sen. Sanders has brought a lot to the table in this primary. He has done a great service to the party and to the nation. Sen. Clinton has her warts, but she is our one true hope. She, and we, need Sen. Sanders perspective in a Clinton administration. She needs Sen Sanders' people. Its really quite simple.
121
She is not the "one true hope", she is a politician bent on war and serving the interests even of the neo-cons who were derided when they were the Bush administration.
we need him in the senate and we need him to support Democrats so that we can gain control of at least the Senate.
4
We don't want token gestures. We don't want him to take a meaningless title. We want change. Why is this hard to grasp?
55
Bernie Sanders brought important impulses into the campaign, but it is time for him to realize that it is over. It is time for him to support the presumed nominee unequivocally and to call for his supporters to do so as well.
His main goal must be to defeat Trump and to have a Democratic victory in both houses of congress. Any of his followers who are not willing to help with this are nuts.
His main goal must be to defeat Trump and to have a Democratic victory in both houses of congress. Any of his followers who are not willing to help with this are nuts.
98
You obviously have not been listening to what Sanders has been saying for the past month. It's dangerous not to take yes for an answer.
1
Just when I thought the NYT might be done bashing Sanders, here we go again.
1. As commented already below, the Sanders movement is a movement. People committed to progressive policies and ideals. The fact that the Democrat party, supposedly our left leaning, liberal, and progressive political option is ignoring many (most) of these policies is one major reason why Sanders supporters are not flocking to Hillary.
2. Hillary supporters saying that Sanders supporters are fooled by GOP lies about her are fooling no one but themselves. Hillary has done very well on her own to earn my distrust, between her hawkishness, her Wall Street speeches, and her 1% donor list. I really do not believe the garbage Fox and company have been spouting for decades. I DO believe reports on the above, published in these very pages.
3. Anyone on Sanders mailing list has received multiple emails asking for support and contributions for fellow Democrats with progressive ideals, despite any "news" that his movement has not been supporting down ticket candidates.
4. The most recent email from the Sanders campaign was about the party platform. The 12 million people who voted for Sanders deserve a voice at the convention. There is absolutely no reason to drop out now and every reason to stay in. As you have pointed out here, the Democrat leadership needs us, so it is even in your best interest that Sanders follows through till the end.
1. As commented already below, the Sanders movement is a movement. People committed to progressive policies and ideals. The fact that the Democrat party, supposedly our left leaning, liberal, and progressive political option is ignoring many (most) of these policies is one major reason why Sanders supporters are not flocking to Hillary.
2. Hillary supporters saying that Sanders supporters are fooled by GOP lies about her are fooling no one but themselves. Hillary has done very well on her own to earn my distrust, between her hawkishness, her Wall Street speeches, and her 1% donor list. I really do not believe the garbage Fox and company have been spouting for decades. I DO believe reports on the above, published in these very pages.
3. Anyone on Sanders mailing list has received multiple emails asking for support and contributions for fellow Democrats with progressive ideals, despite any "news" that his movement has not been supporting down ticket candidates.
4. The most recent email from the Sanders campaign was about the party platform. The 12 million people who voted for Sanders deserve a voice at the convention. There is absolutely no reason to drop out now and every reason to stay in. As you have pointed out here, the Democrat leadership needs us, so it is even in your best interest that Sanders follows through till the end.
195
@Jasmin: Great comment. There is a cultish like quality behind Hillary supporters that they project no Bernie's supporters. Bernie's campaign was about issues and policies--not personalities and scandals. Defeating Bernie does not make those issues go away and even if Hillary is elected, it does not mean her policies will be good for the majority of Americans.
The lesser of two evils argument is a propaganda meme baked into our supposed democracy. It allows a party to thrust a pro-status quo candidate aligned with the power elite on the people and tell them they have to vote for her because of the other crazy candidate. And in the process, Hillary never has to address her policies or past behavior because the other candidate is so crazy. To criticize Hillary is to support Trump.
In the end, the public is left with a candidate who is bought and paid for by special interests and is told not to care about that fact. As with neocon's controlling foreign policy that is now moving towards bipartisan support, there will be absolutely no discussion this election season about how special interest money is a corrupting influence. Hillary and the mainstream Democratic party have taken that issue off that table. But it is not going away no matter who ends up being elected.
The lesser of two evils argument is a propaganda meme baked into our supposed democracy. It allows a party to thrust a pro-status quo candidate aligned with the power elite on the people and tell them they have to vote for her because of the other crazy candidate. And in the process, Hillary never has to address her policies or past behavior because the other candidate is so crazy. To criticize Hillary is to support Trump.
In the end, the public is left with a candidate who is bought and paid for by special interests and is told not to care about that fact. As with neocon's controlling foreign policy that is now moving towards bipartisan support, there will be absolutely no discussion this election season about how special interest money is a corrupting influence. Hillary and the mainstream Democratic party have taken that issue off that table. But it is not going away no matter who ends up being elected.
65
I reregistered from Independent to Dem to vote for Bernie in the primary. If I don't see some of Bernie's policies in the Dem program l will write in Bernie instead of voting against my interests.
2
Lesser of two evils argument propaganda? No, it's called reality. Even if you hate Hillary and her policies and what she stands for and what she doesn't stand for... she still is a thousand million times better then Trump. Hillary vs. Trump, this is the choice we are left with. Time to get real and make a choice. Or sit out and do nothing and continue to cry over spilt milk.
4
"...what you get by voting for Trump is bigotry and fear. You get more years of failed Republican economics; racial, ethnic and social division; ..." Is this an editorial or a political advertisement for the Clinton campaigns talking points? To balance the scales we could talk about E-mailgate, Libya, the Clinton Foundation, Wall Street speeches, etc. The fact is, many people are well aware of the awful liabilities of both Clinton and Trump. That's why they're not giving up on Bernie and hope he doesn't give up either.
46
Every Clinto hater keeps beating the Wall Street connections and those "speeches" to death. Like it or not Wall Street is an important and integral part of our Nation and economy. It appears rather disingenuous to berate those connections when all of our politicians, overtly or covertly, court them in their never ending desire to seek money enabling them to remain on the gravy train.
Now the speeches, does anyone know what was said in those speeches? Was she inciting the overthrow of our government? Did any untoward action occur because of her speeches? Did those attending those speeches have to sign a non-disclosure agreement or only enter after giving the secret password? No! She did however get paid as do many influential people and she got paid a lot. If the companies were willing to meet the price, why is it anyone else's business? It's not, and it's high time her opponents come up with something more viable to complain about or shut up.
Now the speeches, does anyone know what was said in those speeches? Was she inciting the overthrow of our government? Did any untoward action occur because of her speeches? Did those attending those speeches have to sign a non-disclosure agreement or only enter after giving the secret password? No! She did however get paid as do many influential people and she got paid a lot. If the companies were willing to meet the price, why is it anyone else's business? It's not, and it's high time her opponents come up with something more viable to complain about or shut up.
7
"To balance the scales we could talk about E-mailgate, Libya, the Clinton Foundation, Wall Street speeches, etc." I've been hearing this litany, and much worse, for three decades now. You left out Whitewater, Vince Foster, alledged vase throwing incidents, etc.
In none of the above cases has Hillary Clinton been convicted of any crime, except (possibly) not explaining herself as well as she could have. She has been the target of right-wing hate mongers for most of her life. How can it be so difficult for people see the reality of this?
I know this is a futile gesture, but I'm getting mighty tired of the constant exaggeration and bald-face lying about a woman who has done so much for so many for so long. The insane Citizen's United ruling has made it necessary for every politician to hold his/her nose and take money from donors far and wide ... but in most cases that doesn't translate into being "bought & paid for", and I don't believe Hillary is an exception to that rule.
In none of the above cases has Hillary Clinton been convicted of any crime, except (possibly) not explaining herself as well as she could have. She has been the target of right-wing hate mongers for most of her life. How can it be so difficult for people see the reality of this?
I know this is a futile gesture, but I'm getting mighty tired of the constant exaggeration and bald-face lying about a woman who has done so much for so many for so long. The insane Citizen's United ruling has made it necessary for every politician to hold his/her nose and take money from donors far and wide ... but in most cases that doesn't translate into being "bought & paid for", and I don't believe Hillary is an exception to that rule.
6
The GOP never has a concrete plan in place to run the country, just stale Lee Atwater/Karl Rove lies and distortions on current Democratic Party leaders.
4
This article talks with a Sanders supporter who is voting for Trump; I recently talked with a young voter who is switching from Sanders to the Libertarian ticket. Both cases confirm my suspicion that the Sanders "movement" is an inch deep and a mile wide. For many (not all), this is about inchoate frustration and a desire for something new--and very little about specific policies (although free college and the legalization of marijuana are dependable applause lines). Hence the wild swing from socialist Sanders to tyrannical Trump to free market worshipping Gary Johnson.
87
Ms. Wilke,
I recently talked with an older voter who is switching from the Republican party to the Dem. She said Hillary is a closet Con. and being a woman is reason enough for her. Her partner standing by agreed that Clinton will be strong on the Military stating her past war mongering and the fact she pushed fracking all over the globe made him feel she won't be cutting off our oil anytime soon. He too felt Clinton might be enough of a Republican to switch parties. Seems for many (not all) this is about holding the status quo, and not wanting something new. They cared very little about her social policy's because she doesn't mean what she says and her actions are more conservative than Trumps. Plus she won't give away the tax dollars on things like free collage and legalizing the devils weed. Those silly people need to be tossed in jail. Hillary is for jails. That is a bonus for them.
Hence the wild swing from rock ribbed conservative to neo-liberal center right Clinton.
Gee, that was fun and easy. Shall we play again?
I recently talked with an older voter who is switching from the Republican party to the Dem. She said Hillary is a closet Con. and being a woman is reason enough for her. Her partner standing by agreed that Clinton will be strong on the Military stating her past war mongering and the fact she pushed fracking all over the globe made him feel she won't be cutting off our oil anytime soon. He too felt Clinton might be enough of a Republican to switch parties. Seems for many (not all) this is about holding the status quo, and not wanting something new. They cared very little about her social policy's because she doesn't mean what she says and her actions are more conservative than Trumps. Plus she won't give away the tax dollars on things like free collage and legalizing the devils weed. Those silly people need to be tossed in jail. Hillary is for jails. That is a bonus for them.
Hence the wild swing from rock ribbed conservative to neo-liberal center right Clinton.
Gee, that was fun and easy. Shall we play again?
1
That was one voter, Kelly. Here is my take: I'll vote for Jill Stein. People have advised me, "Just hold your nose and vote for the lesser of two evils." It would be more like swallowing my bile and doing serious injury to myself. One worry: a quid pro quo for countries donating to the Clinton Foundation. If you donate, you're safe. If not, watch out. Paranoid? Perhaps. But her constant prevaricating (still haven't caught her in an actual lie) bothers me. It is all about policy, and I have been aware of Sanders' for many years. I can trust him, and for me this is key.
3
How can Bernie back down and lead his voters to support Hillary after running a campaign that lumped the leadership of the Dem party with the Republican party- both hopelessly controlled by plutocrats and corporations. You can't quietly step back from that and maintain your "credibility".
When Bernie was asked to name one piece of legislation Hillary supported that demonstrated her evil alliance with Wall St. and the rest, his silence was resounding, but his followers remain convinced of her unholy motivations.
Perhaps Hillary herself can convince them to change their minds in the course of the remaining campaign. Difficult as that may be, it might be easier than trying to turn Bernie into a team player.
When Bernie was asked to name one piece of legislation Hillary supported that demonstrated her evil alliance with Wall St. and the rest, his silence was resounding, but his followers remain convinced of her unholy motivations.
Perhaps Hillary herself can convince them to change their minds in the course of the remaining campaign. Difficult as that may be, it might be easier than trying to turn Bernie into a team player.
62
There is no evidence that Sec. Clinton voted for a specific piece of legislation in return for a contribution from a specific corporate supporter. That's not how it works. What you have to look at is who is being supported by the corporate powers that be and the super rich. Sec. Clinton would not be getting Wall Street support if the folks on Wall Street weren't sure that she will not act against their basic interests. She may make anti-Wall Street noises and complain about income inequality and the Wall Street Casino. She might provide tepid support one or two pieces of legislation that appear to limit Wall Street power and economic hegemony but she won't invest real political capital in breaking us out of the oligarchy that now runs the country.
What Sen. Sanders has to do is attempt to engage the voters who supported in the political process so that they will infiltrate and take over the Democratic Party and eventually enact his program. If he can't, we will, Like Sec. Clinton, have to bow to the reality that the rich have inherited the earth and learn to live with the few crumbs they are willing to throw our way.
What Sen. Sanders has to do is attempt to engage the voters who supported in the political process so that they will infiltrate and take over the Democratic Party and eventually enact his program. If he can't, we will, Like Sec. Clinton, have to bow to the reality that the rich have inherited the earth and learn to live with the few crumbs they are willing to throw our way.
1
In most democracies the corrupting influence of money is taken for granted. But then, we're not one of those places, are we?
How many people do you know who will actively fight their own boss tooth and nail?
How many people do you know who will actively fight their own boss tooth and nail?
1
Dems may do what they can do so very well – the Humphrey/McGovern gambit of tossing themselves on the pyre of liberal purity in a paroxysm of secular if patently religious ecstasy, which is to crash and burn, destroying their effectiveness for whole election cycles; or they can back off and just shut up for one critical election. That would require that they swallow their bile and allow a master triangulator to present herself as the great white hope (no, I’m not talking about Sen. Warren) centrist who can best fight for progressive priorities but in a sustainable way. This would co-opt a lot of moderate Republicans, as well as Independents. The distance the diehard Sandersistas already forced Mrs. Clinton left is largely what has made Trump viable and, if he can get his act together (finally), may hand him the White House.
America is no welcome home for the unchained, potted liberati: it’s a center-right place that recognizes the need to change in sensible ways but wants the change to be sustainable. Left to her own convictions, this is what Hillary would evangelize. But the pressure to list dramatically left is constant; and destructive.
John Lewis can do what he wants: when you have no power because your arguments don’t resonate with enough Americans to elect enough Democrats, that’s what happens: you stage sit-ins because you’re caught in those dark corners where real power never visits. But Hillary Clinton could win if Bernie Sanders just shuts up leaves her alone.
America is no welcome home for the unchained, potted liberati: it’s a center-right place that recognizes the need to change in sensible ways but wants the change to be sustainable. Left to her own convictions, this is what Hillary would evangelize. But the pressure to list dramatically left is constant; and destructive.
John Lewis can do what he wants: when you have no power because your arguments don’t resonate with enough Americans to elect enough Democrats, that’s what happens: you stage sit-ins because you’re caught in those dark corners where real power never visits. But Hillary Clinton could win if Bernie Sanders just shuts up leaves her alone.
17
Oh, and Andrew … despite current events, I imagine you still wield considerable influence in Times Opinion. You might consider using that influence to good effect and suggesting to Paul Krugman that he doesn’t get to take days off.
6
America doesn't elect enough Democrats because the Republicans have out-smarted us with gerrymanders, voting restrictions, and recognition that the evangelical right can be herded to the polls en mass with fear and hatred.
The Sandersnistas have shown again how easy it is to split the party into its many factions. each with a principle that helps the majority and will truly make America great but only if collectively bound together.
Herding cats.
The Sandersnistas have shown again how easy it is to split the party into its many factions. each with a principle that helps the majority and will truly make America great but only if collectively bound together.
Herding cats.
1
The majority of Americans believes in gay marriage, legal marijuana, less wars, less prisons, Social Security and Medicare. The list goes on and on and on. American hasn't been center right for many years.
1
Hillary is not justless adept at campaigning. She is clearly promising to do the wrong things. She and her supporters are uncompromising about those things, from wars to money in politic (for which she is the face) to regulation of Wall Street, she is everything supporters of Sanders opposed.
No, there is no reason for her to expect Sanders or his supporters to help her do those things.
Trump is worse? That denies how very bad uncompromising Hillary insists she'll be.
Want help? Earn it. Refuse in entitled demands like this one, and get no help.
Bad as Trump is, he is better than Hillary on wars like the looming Syria intervention, and she needs to deal with that, not just demand Sanders help her do it.
No, there is no reason for her to expect Sanders or his supporters to help her do those things.
Trump is worse? That denies how very bad uncompromising Hillary insists she'll be.
Want help? Earn it. Refuse in entitled demands like this one, and get no help.
Bad as Trump is, he is better than Hillary on wars like the looming Syria intervention, and she needs to deal with that, not just demand Sanders help her do it.
62
Please do a bit more research before standing for misogyny and hate- and against the environment and inclusion, and against women. These are NOT progressive values! I think the House and Senate activities of the last week show that the Democratic party is ready to work 4 change. Let's make this happen.
5
Yes, Bernie should move one way or the other. But his personality and tactics are what they are, and he's holding his cards (and supporters) close to his vest. Every day that he stays in his campaign limbo--still costing US taxpayers Secret Service protection--holding out his support, endorsement and supporters, is a day that advances the cause of Donald Trump, the candidate Sanders vows to help defeat.
He's wasting valuable time, as world events (Britain's vote for BREXIT) are conspiring to help the Trump movement. Were he a loyal democrat, he'd already be out on the hustings. But Sanders isn't a true Democrat--he's a loner with highly progressive ideas, most of them great, but many of them unworkable in the world as it is.
And the Democrats have a campaign to fight and win. We could use the voice of Sanders right now, on a day of turmoil that has sent shock waves through the world. We could use his impressive oratory in support of the party he ran on. Not huddled in private speeches to supporters disconnected from the party.
The longer he plays coy, the more his supporters say they will turn to Trump. Which seems inconceivable! As Andrew Rosenthal writes, "And what you get by voting for Trump is bigotry and fear. You get more years of failed Republican economics; racial, ethnic and social division; and pretty much everything else Sanders opposes."
The convention will be telling. After Sanders gets his speech and platform a resolution, what then?
He's wasting valuable time, as world events (Britain's vote for BREXIT) are conspiring to help the Trump movement. Were he a loyal democrat, he'd already be out on the hustings. But Sanders isn't a true Democrat--he's a loner with highly progressive ideas, most of them great, but many of them unworkable in the world as it is.
And the Democrats have a campaign to fight and win. We could use the voice of Sanders right now, on a day of turmoil that has sent shock waves through the world. We could use his impressive oratory in support of the party he ran on. Not huddled in private speeches to supporters disconnected from the party.
The longer he plays coy, the more his supporters say they will turn to Trump. Which seems inconceivable! As Andrew Rosenthal writes, "And what you get by voting for Trump is bigotry and fear. You get more years of failed Republican economics; racial, ethnic and social division; and pretty much everything else Sanders opposes."
The convention will be telling. After Sanders gets his speech and platform a resolution, what then?
154
Leave it to Americans to make the Brexit vote somehow all about us.
I'm not sure what's "unworkable" or "highly progressive" about universal healthcare, since every other industrialized country in the world has had it for decades. If it's unattainable, it's because of the corruption at the heart of our system, which Hillary Clinton will do nothing to end. She and her husband (and Obama) are the poster children for big money in politics. This is why people refuse to vote for her, as well as her utter lack of principle.
I'm not sure what's "unworkable" or "highly progressive" about universal healthcare, since every other industrialized country in the world has had it for decades. If it's unattainable, it's because of the corruption at the heart of our system, which Hillary Clinton will do nothing to end. She and her husband (and Obama) are the poster children for big money in politics. This is why people refuse to vote for her, as well as her utter lack of principle.
1
How much is the FBI investigation costing, or the IG report in the State Department? That is, how much has Hillary Clinton cost the taxpayer by her
actions and decisions that raised serious questions?
actions and decisions that raised serious questions?
Après moi, le déluge.
1
It's not just a matter of Sanders supporters moving over to support Clinton. Or Clinton adopting short-term "beliefs" that more closely echo Sanders.
Clinton needs to show that she is sincere in adopting positions that are important to Sanders supporters. One huge one is military involvement in Syria.
Clinton is a hawk. And that sits very poorly with many.
Clinton needs to show that she is sincere in adopting positions that are important to Sanders supporters. One huge one is military involvement in Syria.
Clinton is a hawk. And that sits very poorly with many.
179
Sincerity in Clinton terms means buying with dollars. Show me the money, putting money where your mouth is. The Hillary victory fund bought loyalties of 30 state democratic parties. Meaning all those dem state parties are tainted and laced with big monied interests.
1
I will be voting for Hillary for President in the general election and could never vote for any Republican. Nonetheless, there's no way Hillary can show that she's sincere on a number of these things. It won't surprise me in the least, for instance, if she finds a way to make another about face to support the Trans Pacific Partnership treaty and corporate "free trade" in general. Her neoliberal impulses are too ingrained and the TPP means too much money for too many plutocrats.
2
Whereas the Dove of Peace sits on Trump's shoulder and coos into his ear.
For god's sake, grow up! This is not a world where anyone gets a candidate tailored perfectly to his tastes and convictions. It's about trade-offs: a candidate you consider too hawkish, but who espouses liberal values like protecting reproductive freedom, open borders and non-discrimination, if preferable to one who seems eager to kick out anyone darker than an A2 envelope (spray-on tans excepted) and start a war with half the world.
And by the way: As Mr. Rosenthal suggests, you don't have much of a negotiating position left with the Democrats. So drop the coy, "lips that touch Syria shall never touch mine" attitude.
For god's sake, grow up! This is not a world where anyone gets a candidate tailored perfectly to his tastes and convictions. It's about trade-offs: a candidate you consider too hawkish, but who espouses liberal values like protecting reproductive freedom, open borders and non-discrimination, if preferable to one who seems eager to kick out anyone darker than an A2 envelope (spray-on tans excepted) and start a war with half the world.
And by the way: As Mr. Rosenthal suggests, you don't have much of a negotiating position left with the Democrats. So drop the coy, "lips that touch Syria shall never touch mine" attitude.
6
Dear Bernie-
Rather than a battle in the streets to let Republicans and Independents vote in Democratic primaries, please call everyone to register as a Democrat and to work hard to build and support a progressive agenda inside the party-- and to vote( and run for office, as you pointed out in your online speech to supporters a week or so ago) in every local, state and federal general election and primary.
We have a lot of work to do to advance a progressive agenda. Let's focus on making the case for specific progressive policies, for how diversity ( including immigration) has always been part of America's strength, and the dramatic differences between how Democrats and Republicans vote when they are sent to Washington (and appointed to the Supreme Court).
Rather than a battle in the streets to let Republicans and Independents vote in Democratic primaries, please call everyone to register as a Democrat and to work hard to build and support a progressive agenda inside the party-- and to vote( and run for office, as you pointed out in your online speech to supporters a week or so ago) in every local, state and federal general election and primary.
We have a lot of work to do to advance a progressive agenda. Let's focus on making the case for specific progressive policies, for how diversity ( including immigration) has always been part of America's strength, and the dramatic differences between how Democrats and Republicans vote when they are sent to Washington (and appointed to the Supreme Court).
75
Well said, to allow non-party members to vote in the choice of a party's leader is just crazy. My analogy would be to throw open corporate stockholders meetings to the general public and give each and every one a vote.
If people are so interested in who leads, ante up and join the party.
If people are so interested in who leads, ante up and join the party.
5
Bernie doesn't care about diversity. The only inequality he recognizes is the fiscal. And no, I don't really care about him being photographed at a march that happened half a century ago.
3
In light of the Brexit vote, there should be a new opinion piece, "What America Needs From Hillary Clinton". Clearly, the UK vote shows that nationalism and populism is a world wide movement. In the USA, it was best reflected in the campaigns of both Sanders and Trump. Sanders came from being an unknown to 90% of the nation to being a hero of the under 40 generation. The fact is, the nation yearns for idealism and a new direction. That is not Mrs Clinton.
With Sanders out, that leaves Trump in as the standard bearer for the same concerns reflected in the Brexit vote. What America Needs from Mrs Clinton is reason to believe that she will address these concern with enthusiasm, competence, and free of influence of the maintainers of the status quo. I am afraid she is inadequate on all three.
With Sanders out, that leaves Trump in as the standard bearer for the same concerns reflected in the Brexit vote. What America Needs from Mrs Clinton is reason to believe that she will address these concern with enthusiasm, competence, and free of influence of the maintainers of the status quo. I am afraid she is inadequate on all three.
269
Thank you. If you ignore legitimate concerns for too long, there is a chance people will go radical on you. The GOP is a bit of a different animal in that ot has been on the war path against decency since two to four decades ago. But it's wrong to assume you can put corporations above people, take their money, and expect people to be decent back to you. Clinton needs to stop her little Foundation scheme there, and she needs to swear she is going to get rid of superpacs as the first thing. She needs to promise us that. We didn't take Bernie all the way to the convention and given him a 200m of our own hard-earned money, to just accept Her Royal Highness accepting the nomination. She needs to deliver on the most pressing issue of our time, that our system was bought and paid for by the rich. With 100m of her own money, I doubt she gets that. Which makes her indecent in our eyes. So no, we think Bernie should go at least until the convention. Chance of a lifetime here. This man stands for us, stronger than anyone before. He can not be bought, he can not be hushed, and neither will we, NYT Editors can go green with envy and red with anger, we. do. not. care. Get money out of the system and then we can talk.
5
Amen. The force of change is strong and the winds will carry it from the other side of the Atlantic to the shores of America. Beware Andrew Rosenthal and your pack of tired old status quo touting staff.
1
So vote for the clearly insane Trump and get over it.
3
I hope the Brexit Vote serves as a 3am-wake-up call to Mrs. Hillary Clinton.
As many have implied before in the comment sections of the NY Times, Americans want drastic changes in their government and how it functions or does not function. The deliverer of that change may be flawed, but if he or she convinces the American people that he/she will deliver the necessary and desired changes then they will be elected President of the United States.
Hillary Clinton ain't the deliverer of change but is the deliverer of the status quo and Wall Street dogma.
As many have implied before in the comment sections of the NY Times, Americans want drastic changes in their government and how it functions or does not function. The deliverer of that change may be flawed, but if he or she convinces the American people that he/she will deliver the necessary and desired changes then they will be elected President of the United States.
Hillary Clinton ain't the deliverer of change but is the deliverer of the status quo and Wall Street dogma.
201
Hmm, interesting. I think the Brexit vote ought to scare and educate Bernie's supporters, because it proves again how difficult it is to maintain a functioning, cooperative alliance of European nations (or of fifty "united" states) and warns us about the dangers posed by nativists (Donald Trump) and uncompromising purists (Bernie Sanders).
3
This argument makes no sense- britains government is made up of no checks and balances the ways ours is. No dramatic overhaul is even possible in this country because we have the legislative branch which keeps the executive branch in check. Yesterday's Supreme Court decision against immigration was a perfect example of the C&B system.
It's sad that so many of Bernie supporters were not awake for Freshman government class. Wake up! You can't get anything on Bernies list without a legislative branch that is on the same page. Welcome to the real world.
It's sad that so many of Bernie supporters were not awake for Freshman government class. Wake up! You can't get anything on Bernies list without a legislative branch that is on the same page. Welcome to the real world.
5
I think you will find that the first reaction from Hillary and her economic and political team will be denial and after denial there will be anger. John Ralston Saul has been talking and writing about the Collapse of Globalism and the Cult of NeoLiberalism for 20 years.
Yesterdays Brexit was simply the coroner' signing the death certificate.
When two of the world's most frugal societies Switzerland and Japan implement long term negative interest rate policies something is rotten everywhere but Denmark which is now the example of how to run a successful 21st century democracy.
Yesterdays Brexit was simply the coroner' signing the death certificate.
When two of the world's most frugal societies Switzerland and Japan implement long term negative interest rate policies something is rotten everywhere but Denmark which is now the example of how to run a successful 21st century democracy.
1
We're living in a time that seems ripe for a revolution. It's a time when Democrats are staging sit-ins to try to counter the G.O.P.'s knee-jerk support of N.R.A. lobbyists, to the point where Republicans dare not suggest denying guns to people on the no-fly list.
Donald Trump is ready to stage a revolution. He's spewing the kind of nonsense that would turn the country upside down.
Europe is ready for a revolution. Cameron is on the way out, now that Britain wants to secede from the E.U.
Yet Bernie Sanders was dismissed as a viable candidate because his views were seen as revolutionary. Talk of free public education, reduction of income inequality and a living minimum wage were seen as too much to ask for.
Hillary Clinton is the opposite of revolutionary. Just because she's giving lip service to Sanders' issues is not the same thing as adopting them. Young people aren't stupid, and they know this. They'll have to live in the future that's being created today, and many don't see her as promising anything but more of the same.
Clinton can probably beat Trump, but it's not a sure thing. I think Bernie could have prevailed, because he'd have guaranteed a large turnout of young people, and he also appealed to many voters around the edges of Trump's base.
Now we've got a situation where things are iffy. With Bernie out of the picture, we may just get a revolution. But it might not be the kind we were looking for.
Donald Trump is ready to stage a revolution. He's spewing the kind of nonsense that would turn the country upside down.
Europe is ready for a revolution. Cameron is on the way out, now that Britain wants to secede from the E.U.
Yet Bernie Sanders was dismissed as a viable candidate because his views were seen as revolutionary. Talk of free public education, reduction of income inequality and a living minimum wage were seen as too much to ask for.
Hillary Clinton is the opposite of revolutionary. Just because she's giving lip service to Sanders' issues is not the same thing as adopting them. Young people aren't stupid, and they know this. They'll have to live in the future that's being created today, and many don't see her as promising anything but more of the same.
Clinton can probably beat Trump, but it's not a sure thing. I think Bernie could have prevailed, because he'd have guaranteed a large turnout of young people, and he also appealed to many voters around the edges of Trump's base.
Now we've got a situation where things are iffy. With Bernie out of the picture, we may just get a revolution. But it might not be the kind we were looking for.
343
gemli - Your analysis may be correct (as usual) but you leave out the effect of Bernie throwing his weight behind Clinton, which is Rosenthal's point. There will be a vast vast difference over the next 40 years in this country if Clinton is sitting in 1600 Penn. making SCOTUS appointments in Jan. 2017 to replace Scalia and whatever Justice's seat next comes empty vs. the current GOP'er presumptive (or whomever else GOP'ers pick at their convention) making SCOTUS appointments.
Progressives should not take lightly this opportunity to change the balance at SCOTUS, which we've been waiting for since the 1970's; the tilt at SCOTUS has been a constant thorn in our sides that millions upon millions of Progressives have yearned to be relieved from.
Progressives should not take lightly this opportunity to change the balance at SCOTUS, which we've been waiting for since the 1970's; the tilt at SCOTUS has been a constant thorn in our sides that millions upon millions of Progressives have yearned to be relieved from.
88
Sanders was not dismissed as a viable candidate for any quantifiable reason except that a very substantial number of voters preferred someone else.
Perhaps Sanders' revolution would have won over more voters if it had been anything except a sustained, details-free rant about the system. I was among those who really wanted to vote for him, but every single timeI heard him asked about how he would get anything passed, how he would implement his policy ideas, how he would bridge the trillions of dollars gap between what he said he would raise through fairly massive tax increases and what his programmes would cost, all I ever heard him say was more boilerplate about 'Revolution!'
Revolutions are actually a lot of work. There's more involved than shouting and finger-wagging. The real kind are pretty messy. Sanders really seemed to think that mere presence of himself would create magic, that the Democratic Party that he'd only quite recently deigned to join would embrace him despite his endless griping about it. He seemed to think that Presidents can just do whatever they want -- wave a wand and the US will be Denmark (which has a smaller population than New York City.
Some details, a bit less shouting of the same thing over and over and over, less carping about a system whose rules he decided were rigged (except when he won), and maybe he would have convinced more of us that he was actually up to the job he wanted.
Perhaps Sanders' revolution would have won over more voters if it had been anything except a sustained, details-free rant about the system. I was among those who really wanted to vote for him, but every single timeI heard him asked about how he would get anything passed, how he would implement his policy ideas, how he would bridge the trillions of dollars gap between what he said he would raise through fairly massive tax increases and what his programmes would cost, all I ever heard him say was more boilerplate about 'Revolution!'
Revolutions are actually a lot of work. There's more involved than shouting and finger-wagging. The real kind are pretty messy. Sanders really seemed to think that mere presence of himself would create magic, that the Democratic Party that he'd only quite recently deigned to join would embrace him despite his endless griping about it. He seemed to think that Presidents can just do whatever they want -- wave a wand and the US will be Denmark (which has a smaller population than New York City.
Some details, a bit less shouting of the same thing over and over and over, less carping about a system whose rules he decided were rigged (except when he won), and maybe he would have convinced more of us that he was actually up to the job he wanted.
33
I get your point.
Bernie Sanders lost fair and square regardless of his allegations.
No he is behaving like 2 year old and petty politician and not as an elderly statesman. I also believe, the more he continues on with pettiness, the less he will be able to get done.
In a way, I am glad he was defeated, he doesn't seem all that smart politically or otherwise. Just another version bombastic Trump with the only difference being that, Sanders hits the inequality and welfare state chord.
Bernie Sanders lost fair and square regardless of his allegations.
No he is behaving like 2 year old and petty politician and not as an elderly statesman. I also believe, the more he continues on with pettiness, the less he will be able to get done.
In a way, I am glad he was defeated, he doesn't seem all that smart politically or otherwise. Just another version bombastic Trump with the only difference being that, Sanders hits the inequality and welfare state chord.
24
Sanders built his support with little to no help from the Democratic Party. He doesn't need the Democratic Party. It disturbs me that Hillary supporters seriously expect to Sanders to just lie down and unconditionally throw his support behind her. In any case, voters aren't trained sheep.
What Sanders should do is tell Hillary how she can earn the vote of his voters while using his clout to attack Trump. But I believe Hillary is going to ignore Sanders voters and try to earn the votes of neocons who are now looking for options other than the Republican nominee. I truly wish her the best if that is her strategy. But in no way should Sanders endorse her if Hillary is just going to try and win over unhappy corporatist and militarist Republicans.
What Sanders should do is tell Hillary how she can earn the vote of his voters while using his clout to attack Trump. But I believe Hillary is going to ignore Sanders voters and try to earn the votes of neocons who are now looking for options other than the Republican nominee. I truly wish her the best if that is her strategy. But in no way should Sanders endorse her if Hillary is just going to try and win over unhappy corporatist and militarist Republicans.
259
The US is a centrist country. The left is a pretty small group. (I don't say that happily, as someone who is at least as lefty as Bernie.) Yes, 12 million votes is a lot, but far short of the 65 million-plus needed to win the Presidency.
16
"He doesn't need the Democratic Party." Let me tell you something. The Democratic Party doesn't need Sanders either.
15
Really?
If he didn't join the party for expediancy and to get the donor list, he would be just like Gary Johnson and Jill whoever running as Libertarian and Green party candiddates running for POTUS, a fringe candidate.
Sanders supporters refuses to face reality and truth which shows immaturity and inability to comprehend.
In 2016 Democratic party's willingness to campaign in all 50 states may prove that the Sanders supporters are not at all that important in the grand scheme of things.
Sanders and his supporters should be more concerned about how much influence he is going to have as a senator in the future or within the party. Eventhough, he joined the party, he is acting as a lone wolf. His future inflence in the party is going to be nothing because of his bulldozing way. His young supporters are of same disposition so, they fit well together.
Picture this, without the support of Democrats in the senate, he will not be part of any committee or much less lead one. Also picture this, if the democrats win as many seats they are expected to win in 2016, they would not need his support and Sanders will be delegated to relative obscurity.
If Sanders is smart, he should learn from BREXIT and Cameron. Cameron pandered to the British public promising a referundum if he won during is first campaign and ended up resigining without completing his second term. Cameron's legacy very well may end up as the one who destroyed the British economy. Only time will tell.
If he didn't join the party for expediancy and to get the donor list, he would be just like Gary Johnson and Jill whoever running as Libertarian and Green party candiddates running for POTUS, a fringe candidate.
Sanders supporters refuses to face reality and truth which shows immaturity and inability to comprehend.
In 2016 Democratic party's willingness to campaign in all 50 states may prove that the Sanders supporters are not at all that important in the grand scheme of things.
Sanders and his supporters should be more concerned about how much influence he is going to have as a senator in the future or within the party. Eventhough, he joined the party, he is acting as a lone wolf. His future inflence in the party is going to be nothing because of his bulldozing way. His young supporters are of same disposition so, they fit well together.
Picture this, without the support of Democrats in the senate, he will not be part of any committee or much less lead one. Also picture this, if the democrats win as many seats they are expected to win in 2016, they would not need his support and Sanders will be delegated to relative obscurity.
If Sanders is smart, he should learn from BREXIT and Cameron. Cameron pandered to the British public promising a referundum if he won during is first campaign and ended up resigining without completing his second term. Cameron's legacy very well may end up as the one who destroyed the British economy. Only time will tell.
12
Right on Andrew.........amen!
29
Let's talk about why Bernie supporters are actually opposed to Hillary. My opposition to Hillary is due to her pro-war agenda and the two new wars she waged in our party's name since Obama was elected.
I am also opposed to the massive amounts of money she takes as a political figure. The smell of corruption is overwhelming and when called on to "Walk the Talk, she dismisses that as an "Artful Smear".
They don't explain this because they don't want people thinking that there are legitimate reason to oppose Hillary. After Libya and Syria, Hillary will never get my vote. Trump is by far the lesser of the two evils.
Don't forget. Super Delegates do not commit political suicide until July 25th. Replacements are already in the waiting.
I am also opposed to the massive amounts of money she takes as a political figure. The smell of corruption is overwhelming and when called on to "Walk the Talk, she dismisses that as an "Artful Smear".
They don't explain this because they don't want people thinking that there are legitimate reason to oppose Hillary. After Libya and Syria, Hillary will never get my vote. Trump is by far the lesser of the two evils.
Don't forget. Super Delegates do not commit political suicide until July 25th. Replacements are already in the waiting.
79
Excuse me but Hillary Clinton has never "waged a war."
28
I think you are a fool to expect Mr. Trump will better serve this country's needs. As Bernie has shown, we have lots of very important issues to deal with. I am not willing to kill the prospects for the next generation by electing someone so unqualified to address those issues, much less Mr. Trump, who will, based on his own words and actions, will make things much worse.
Please do not destroy the next generation's opportunities with a vote for Mr. Trump!
Please do not destroy the next generation's opportunities with a vote for Mr. Trump!
14
Instead of repeating 25 years of GOP talking points on Hillary, please read this.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/06/the_...
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/06/the_...
5
The problem of course is that Sen. Sanders only cares about
Sen. Sanders. He has been doing Trump's dirty work for months.
His refusal to release his tax returns gave Trump cover.
America does not need Sen. Sanders. His leverage shrinks
with every passing day.
America does not need a tiresome finger wagging scold. Ralph
Nader already occupies that chair.
Sen. Sanders. He has been doing Trump's dirty work for months.
His refusal to release his tax returns gave Trump cover.
America does not need Sen. Sanders. His leverage shrinks
with every passing day.
America does not need a tiresome finger wagging scold. Ralph
Nader already occupies that chair.
316
America also does not need more military involvement in Syria,
37
And we don't need millions more refugees fleeing the Syrian mess. Are we to assume that America is now rolling her sidewalks up at the water's edge? Is this what it means to make America great again? Simply calling Hillary a warmonger is hardly the answer to dealing intelligently with the many knotty geopolitical problems confronting our nation, many of which our esteemed W was responsible for causing in the first place. And in the eyes of the big world outside U.S. borders electing Trump would be a geopolitical disaster in its own right.
3
Sanders released his totally unremarkable tax returns weeks ago. I guess it was so tame you slept through it. Let's see Hillary's Wall Street transcripts. They are far more germane to race. Wall Street is not shaking in their boots. They know they are safe no matter which of the 1% gets elected.
She's going to hold them accountable? Great! Prove it by releasing the transcripts for all of us to see. They are more important than even Trump's taxes, but no doubt equally damning.
She's going to hold them accountable? Great! Prove it by releasing the transcripts for all of us to see. They are more important than even Trump's taxes, but no doubt equally damning.
2
Commenter Enri says, "Lewis and Sanders were young anti racist fighters in their youth. Where was Hilary then?"
Hillary was on the front lines, that's where. After Martin Luther King, Jr.'s assassination, Hillary marched on Boston. Then she organized a student strike at Wellesley to recruit more black students and faculty. She made her national debut in her extemporaneous college graduation speech, contradicting a (black) U.S. Senator's embrace of the status quo on racial & economic equality.
Following that, she worked for then-Senator Walter Mondale, researching the cruel & unsafe conditions under which migrant workers, many of them minorities, worked.
In the early 1970s, Hillary began focusing on children's issues. Working for civil rights activist Marian Wright Edelman, Hillary went to the South to (clandestinely) gather information on the Nixon Administration’s refusal to enforce the ban on tax-exempt status for private, white segregated schools.
Was Hillary as involved in the civil rights movement as was John Lewis? No. But she did at least as much as Bernie Sanders did in their early adult years, and arguably more.
The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com
Hillary was on the front lines, that's where. After Martin Luther King, Jr.'s assassination, Hillary marched on Boston. Then she organized a student strike at Wellesley to recruit more black students and faculty. She made her national debut in her extemporaneous college graduation speech, contradicting a (black) U.S. Senator's embrace of the status quo on racial & economic equality.
Following that, she worked for then-Senator Walter Mondale, researching the cruel & unsafe conditions under which migrant workers, many of them minorities, worked.
In the early 1970s, Hillary began focusing on children's issues. Working for civil rights activist Marian Wright Edelman, Hillary went to the South to (clandestinely) gather information on the Nixon Administration’s refusal to enforce the ban on tax-exempt status for private, white segregated schools.
Was Hillary as involved in the civil rights movement as was John Lewis? No. But she did at least as much as Bernie Sanders did in their early adult years, and arguably more.
The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com
517
Yes, and she also registered Hispanic voters in Texas during the McGovern campaign.
66
If this is all true, she needs to do a better job at reintroducing herself to American voters. So far all we see is GS, wars, speaking fees, a willing cuckold, and so forth. She co-opted all of Sanders major policy proposals as the Primary progressed. she wasn't known for these positions beforehand, so we have reason to not believe her. Also, she has foggy memory about things like landing in Bosnia under sniper fire, so we already know she may have embellished most of her civil rights credentials. Until 2013 she was not in favor of civil rights for lgbt because of God, so yea we think she was never at the forefront of any movement besides 'paying her bills'
31
Or voters could use the Googles and educate themselves. It's amazing how many complain they aren't being spoon-fed information that's easily available, but if it's presented to them they scream about how awful journalism/politics is when it's allegedly 'crammed down their throats'.
Pick one.
Pick one.
7
What are these great campaigning skills you assert Bernie Sanders possesses, Mr. Rosenthal. I have been, and continue to be, a supporter of Sanders' agenda. But I have never seen these campaigning skills you claim Sanders has. In fact, I have long thought that Sanders did not do the best job of framing his positions.
Bernie Sanders is no more or less than a man whose position finally became the position of a lot of voters. The voters discovered Sanders, not the other way around. Sanders has no skill in projecting authenticity and integrity. He simply is authentic, and he has integrity. How is Sanders supposed to infuse those unfakeable qualities into Hillary Clinton or her campaign?
Sanders has little influence over his supporters. The onus is on Clinton and her campaign to move further towards Sanders, and to convince Sanders supporters that she means it. Sanders cannot do that for Clinton. All Sanders would accomplish trying to do so would be to lose his authenticity and credibility, which would defeat the purpose of the exercise.
What Sanders can do, and remain Sanders, is to oppose Donald Trump. That he will certainly do, as he has asserted many times.
It's up to Hillary Clinton to attract votes for Hillary Clinton. She's the candidate who can get stuff done, remember? The NYT has continuously asserted so, right? That's a large part of her platform, no? So, let Clinton get this done.
Bernie Sanders is no more or less than a man whose position finally became the position of a lot of voters. The voters discovered Sanders, not the other way around. Sanders has no skill in projecting authenticity and integrity. He simply is authentic, and he has integrity. How is Sanders supposed to infuse those unfakeable qualities into Hillary Clinton or her campaign?
Sanders has little influence over his supporters. The onus is on Clinton and her campaign to move further towards Sanders, and to convince Sanders supporters that she means it. Sanders cannot do that for Clinton. All Sanders would accomplish trying to do so would be to lose his authenticity and credibility, which would defeat the purpose of the exercise.
What Sanders can do, and remain Sanders, is to oppose Donald Trump. That he will certainly do, as he has asserted many times.
It's up to Hillary Clinton to attract votes for Hillary Clinton. She's the candidate who can get stuff done, remember? The NYT has continuously asserted so, right? That's a large part of her platform, no? So, let Clinton get this done.
503
A very astute comment. And you're right--Clinton is always claiming she can bring different groups together to accomplish things.
Let her show those skills now--bring in Sanders supports to defeat Trump.
Let her show those skills now--bring in Sanders supports to defeat Trump.
69
Amen
14
I loved Bernie's ideas, but he lost his campaign for lack of organization. We signed on to work for him - to go door-to-door, to host small gatherings in our community, to do whatever was needed locally. Our offer resulted in same-day calls to drive 100 miles to canvas a Philadelphia neighborhood.
Bernie has great ideas, but his campaign seems to have been more of a rock concert than a serious, well organized effort. Sanders did a great service by raising important issues and showing that his ideas have credence with the American people. He lost his bid not because the game was rigged, but because he didn't play the game well enough to win.
Bernie has great ideas, but his campaign seems to have been more of a rock concert than a serious, well organized effort. Sanders did a great service by raising important issues and showing that his ideas have credence with the American people. He lost his bid not because the game was rigged, but because he didn't play the game well enough to win.
4
The lazy bought and paid for Democrats only woke up because of Bernie Sanders and his voters. The rest of the party is in the back pocket of special interests. Corruption rules our government. The Brits have proved that this movement is real. Populism is coming so the crooks of the world watch out
(Hillary).
(Hillary).
170
One of the most interesting things about all this; these brave and resolute progressives who will never vote for Hillary Clinton have bought the fox news meme hook line and sinker.
Hillary is not a crook.
She is not a dyed in the wool socialist, but she is certainly not the villain that republicans, fox (not)news, and these newly come to the party Sanders' supporters say she is. I say all this as a Sanders' supporter who agrees with Bernie; T rump must never get into the White House.
Hillary is not a crook.
She is not a dyed in the wool socialist, but she is certainly not the villain that republicans, fox (not)news, and these newly come to the party Sanders' supporters say she is. I say all this as a Sanders' supporter who agrees with Bernie; T rump must never get into the White House.
6
Populist revolution could also describe the Klan. Whites for Trump, angry men against Clinton.
4
The lazy democrats made the dramatic sit-in on the house floor for a simple reason. Headlines: "Comedian Hasan Minhaj Just Destroyed A Room Full Of Congresspeople For Failing On Gun Control"
https://www.good.is/articles/hasan-minhaj-radio-television-correspondent...
The camera showed Senator Patrick Leahy squirming during the The Radio and Television Correspondents Association Dinner.
Out of shame for earning $200,000 per year and doing nothing, sitting on their behinds, day in and day out, the democrats were shaken from stupor.
https://www.good.is/articles/hasan-minhaj-radio-television-correspondent...
The camera showed Senator Patrick Leahy squirming during the The Radio and Television Correspondents Association Dinner.
Out of shame for earning $200,000 per year and doing nothing, sitting on their behinds, day in and day out, the democrats were shaken from stupor.
1
As one who voted for Senator Sanders, I believe he will do the right thing at the right time. That time may be later than Mr. Rosenthal would like, but there are valid reasons to see how the platform discussions play out. Once that has happened, Senator Sanders will be able to make the case for what Secretary Clinton and the Democratic Party actually have on offer, even if it is not everything he and his supporters might have hoped. He will be able to make that case with all his supporters knowing he did everything he could to advance the positions they fought for together. That is a much more credible argument to make than the "Hurry up and fold, and take the pig in the poke, because Trump" argument advanced by Mr. Rosenthal.
Personally, I have no more use for Trump and just as much alarm about him as Mr. Rosenthal does, but if Secretary Clinton is going to garner the votes of those people who would either consider Trump or perhaps just stay home, trying to give Senator Sanders the bum's rush and alternately bludgeoning and condescending to his supporters is not the way to do it.
Personally, I have no more use for Trump and just as much alarm about him as Mr. Rosenthal does, but if Secretary Clinton is going to garner the votes of those people who would either consider Trump or perhaps just stay home, trying to give Senator Sanders the bum's rush and alternately bludgeoning and condescending to his supporters is not the way to do it.
96
No, the onus is not on Hillary because she did not disparage him as he did her. Secondly, when the campaign was over and the presumptive nominee was known, Hillars extended her hand as a calsssy statesman to Sanders. She even went further by meeting with him.
Sanders wants Hillary to be his slave do his bidding. Remove Debiie Wasserman, do away with superdelegates and allow independents to vote in democratic pricmat which are all opposed by the Congressional Black Caucus. Sanders does not know how democarcy works and he emulates Putin and believes all of his demands should be met unilaterally without question.
Do you see any Democratic leaders lining up to change his mind or talking about him? Even those who endorsed him is not suooprting him or talking about him. He is being systamically ignored.
Sanders wants Hillary to be his slave do his bidding. Remove Debiie Wasserman, do away with superdelegates and allow independents to vote in democratic pricmat which are all opposed by the Congressional Black Caucus. Sanders does not know how democarcy works and he emulates Putin and believes all of his demands should be met unilaterally without question.
Do you see any Democratic leaders lining up to change his mind or talking about him? Even those who endorsed him is not suooprting him or talking about him. He is being systamically ignored.
2
Why do you think she's treating him badly? The vice presidency isn't the most effective position for Sen Sanders and both of them know that. I think the may be negotiating about a cabinet position where he could get actual, liberal work done--Education? Interior? Health and Human Services?--instead of attending funerals all over the world that she doesn't want to go to.
3
Yes, it will be interesting to see how Cornel West and James Zogby, whom Bernie picked to represent his anti-Israel positions on the platform committee, succeed at their work.
(It's also interesting to observe how Bernie's followers resemble him. They are angry and looking for revenge against "those people" who are "condescending" to them. They see Trump as a good weapon to use against the country they know/care nothing about.)
(It's also interesting to observe how Bernie's followers resemble him. They are angry and looking for revenge against "those people" who are "condescending" to them. They see Trump as a good weapon to use against the country they know/care nothing about.)
4
Brexit marks the victory of populism, the denial of leadership, in England. The likely outcome: the break-up of the EU as Germany and France fight for supremacy.
The rise of Trump and Sanders marks the dissolution of both political parties in the US. The current Republican Party, the party of the self-maligned middle to lower class white world, will never stop denying the growing racial and ethnic nature of the American population. The Democratic Party will never stop pushing a 'Tax and Spend' ideology as their response to heterogeneity. It is so nice and simple--why change? Get to work!
Both parties should return to the much maligned presidency of Dwight Eisenhower. He forced the US to respond to the bleeping Soviet satellite into putting up a satellite that gave all nations access to weather data. He built the Interstate System as a means of shrinking the wide spaces of the US and as a last ditch system of military runways for use after Soviet destruction of all American bases. Broad thinking even if done on the nation's golf courses!
The rise of Trump and Sanders marks the dissolution of both political parties in the US. The current Republican Party, the party of the self-maligned middle to lower class white world, will never stop denying the growing racial and ethnic nature of the American population. The Democratic Party will never stop pushing a 'Tax and Spend' ideology as their response to heterogeneity. It is so nice and simple--why change? Get to work!
Both parties should return to the much maligned presidency of Dwight Eisenhower. He forced the US to respond to the bleeping Soviet satellite into putting up a satellite that gave all nations access to weather data. He built the Interstate System as a means of shrinking the wide spaces of the US and as a last ditch system of military runways for use after Soviet destruction of all American bases. Broad thinking even if done on the nation's golf courses!
14
Sanders received well under half of Democratic primary voters -- primaries in which only a little more than forty per cent of likely Democratic voters in the general election.
Significant? Sure. But a bit less earth-shattering than Sanders' ego and supporters seem to think.
This was not a close ran. He lost decisively.
Significant? Sure. But a bit less earth-shattering than Sanders' ego and supporters seem to think.
This was not a close ran. He lost decisively.
16
Eisenhower also taxed the rich heavily to get those things done.
2
Unfortunately, since the good fairy doesn't exist, the "tax & spend" ideology, or social democracy as it is better known, is the solution to fixing much of what ails US society. Eliminate that ideology and you have the GOP, how's that working out for you?
3
I'm a Sanders supporter who will vote for Clinton - at this point not happily. I would prefer to support her enthusiastically, and that could happen if she would continue to move to the left and stop talking about slow and careful change. Trump is running to her left right now with an anti-free trade message. She must be to his left or she will lose the election. She needs to simplify and strengthen her message!
46
Here is what she proposes to do
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/
It is hard for a policy wonk to simplify her message because there is so much action needed across a broad range of problems, but I absolutely agree that the way campaigns are covered a simple message is more effective than deep knowledge and well- thought out proposals. Sigh.
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/
It is hard for a policy wonk to simplify her message because there is so much action needed across a broad range of problems, but I absolutely agree that the way campaigns are covered a simple message is more effective than deep knowledge and well- thought out proposals. Sigh.
32
Clinton has an array of small cosmetic changes for a variety of constituencies that she needs to bribe in order to get the vote. But in the big picture (trade + wars + big pharma) she is to the far right of Trump.
3
Dems tend to be (and attract) policy wonks, whose platforms can't be boiled down to bumper sticker simplicity. Republicans tend to be "values voters" who don't care about the details and whose platforms DO lend themselves to bumper sticker simplicity. It's that easy. It's the reason Dems lose. The 'mercan public doesn't WANT anything to do with hard thinking or solving complex problems.
4
Why is this article addressing Sanders' supporters and asking them to back Hillary, when young people rightly recognize the mainstream media functions as nothing more than a mouthpiece for the government and corporations? The 80 percent of the young vote that Sanders got in the primaries doesn't read the NYT. They're smarter than that.
104
"The 80 percent of the young vote that Sanders got in the primaries doesn't read the NYT. They're smarter than that." So smart in fact, their petulance might get Donald Trump elected president of the United States.
24
Because historically young people don't actually turn out to vote. They make a lot of noise, and they raise a lot of important issues, but they don't actually vote. That's why.
4
Sanders got a large percentage of the young -and male- vote. Not -quite- the same thing.
1
Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are poles apart. Sanders started his campaign on the basis of drastic reforms in the election funds since it's the root cause of corruption. Hillary's campaign is financed by all the big parties as usual, which is exactly the opposite of what Sanders stands for.
Sanders studied the core issues in depth and raised those issues one after the other in his campaign. As such youth is very much moved by his sincere efforts and commitment.
Americans have already known Hillary as the First Lady and later as foreign secretary, her controversy not withstanding. So Americans are very much familiar with her style of functioning.
The biggest advantage she has is that it's happening for the first time in American history that a lady is contesting as a Presidential candidate and that she stands chance of winning since women are very much excited about it. One of the women commentators of this paper in fact confessed about it in reply to my comment in one of the articles in Well Family.
Trump's utterances from time to time also goes hugely in favour of Hillary that includes some of the strong supporters of the Republican Party. This fact is conveyed to me by one of my close relatives, who is a Gastroenterologist there that too from strongly backed Republican state. He told me clearly that he will abstain from voting. I am sure many will follow suit.
Sanders studied the core issues in depth and raised those issues one after the other in his campaign. As such youth is very much moved by his sincere efforts and commitment.
Americans have already known Hillary as the First Lady and later as foreign secretary, her controversy not withstanding. So Americans are very much familiar with her style of functioning.
The biggest advantage she has is that it's happening for the first time in American history that a lady is contesting as a Presidential candidate and that she stands chance of winning since women are very much excited about it. One of the women commentators of this paper in fact confessed about it in reply to my comment in one of the articles in Well Family.
Trump's utterances from time to time also goes hugely in favour of Hillary that includes some of the strong supporters of the Republican Party. This fact is conveyed to me by one of my close relatives, who is a Gastroenterologist there that too from strongly backed Republican state. He told me clearly that he will abstain from voting. I am sure many will follow suit.
5
Election finance reform will require a Supreme Court majority -- the current Court (with Scalia's help) torpedoed every reasonable campaign finance reform argued before it.
We will not get a new Supreme Court that will even consider accepting campaign finance reform as Constitutional unless we have a President who will appoint Justices who reject the ideas that money is speech and corporations are people.
There is only one candidate running who will do that. Her name is Hillary Clinton.
Sanders, for someone who has been in Washington for ages (longer than Clinton), never seemed to recognise that Presidents actually have to have Congressional support and federal laws often have to get past the Supreme Court.
We will not get a new Supreme Court that will even consider accepting campaign finance reform as Constitutional unless we have a President who will appoint Justices who reject the ideas that money is speech and corporations are people.
There is only one candidate running who will do that. Her name is Hillary Clinton.
Sanders, for someone who has been in Washington for ages (longer than Clinton), never seemed to recognise that Presidents actually have to have Congressional support and federal laws often have to get past the Supreme Court.
19
Sanders and his supporters seem to have missed the fact there is already a revolution on the Right and its all driven by hate.
76
I think Clinton supporters must at least pretend to make an effort. If Clinton supporters cared even a tiny bit about Sanders supporters, they would applaud them for not taking superpac money, they would congratulate them for leading the way with the right policy proposals that Clinton had to co-opt to stay competitive, and they would AT THE LEAST offer unmitigated support for campaign finance reform. But that also means that you need to face the reality that Clinton is only viable when she has billionaire class support. You need to adopt our message here, and stop annoying us with Trump-shaming. Are you so emboldened by her that you think everyone else is just dumb, ungrateful or simply prejudiced? We have seen Clinton for decades, milking the corporates so they would never be fully accountable for their outrageous behavior. Under clinton the First, wall street regulations were losened up considerably, private prisons made a killing on the back of black people, and social security was dismantled. Clinton the first started aggressive wars in Europe and in the middle east. We got a taste of clinton II in State. So you're saying Clinton is an ideal Democratic nominee how? She doesn't believe at all in what we care about. Our ideas are not up for negotiation or sale. We want a champion. We have been abused for far too long. She champions special interests.
11
Look no one in America would care about the Mexican illegal or Indian H1B next door if they themselves had a decent job and hope for the future.
2
@BB - When, exactly was "social security dismantled"? And what "aggressive wars in Europe" do you delusionally think that Bill Clinton started? Seriously?
3
John Lewis and his ilk should be ashamed of themselves for supporting the secretive anti-due-process no-fly list and its expansion to guns. We should eliminate the no-fly list, not expand its scope. Also, Sanders said he would go all the way to the convention, so that is what he should do. If Clinton thinks unity is so important, she should suspend her campaign and support Sanders. I guess unity is important to Clinton, but not if she has to sacrifice her ambitions.
I am a Sanders supporter who will not vote for Clinton.
I am a Sanders supporter who will not vote for Clinton.
33
Here is exhibit A of the problem. Many Sanders supporters are not progessives. They are populists who default to Trump.
21
Whether it is Sanders or Clinton, your logic would suggest that if the Democrat beats the Republican 55-42% in November, as Ms. Clinton has beaten Sen. Sanders, we should inaugurate Pres. Trump in January. To suggest that the winner should drop out because one doesn't happen to like the winner is to suggest that one is perfectly satisfied to ignore the will of the majority because one is so sure the majority is wrong. This is exactly what Mr. Trump is doing, having won only 45% of the vote in the Republican nomination process. Surely, Sen. Sanders does not share Mr. Trump's world view. I don't think he does. Of course, Sen. Sanders' supporters are free to choose to vote or not vote as they wish. They must also be willing to accept responsibility for the consequences in a way that Nader voters in 2000 were never really held responsible. If Sen. Sanders doesn't do at least as much as Sen. Warren to help the Democratic nominee get elected, he should face serious questioning by journalists and, more importantly, his constituents in Vermont as one after the other disaster befalls our country. It seems to me that this year the senator has been more interested in reforming the Dem. Party (a very laudable goal in, say, 2006, or even 2008 -- what was more important to the senator then, I wonder), but not the highest priority when our nation is facing four years with a regime that would do everything possible to ensure that Sen. Sanders' revolution is postponed for another century.
14
XY--
The hatred leveled at Hillary by an attacker, who is not a Democrat,
is something that could bring our country to a precarious edge with the other alternative.
Think about the Supreme court's decisions for the next 50 years if you think about anything.
The hatred leveled at Hillary by an attacker, who is not a Democrat,
is something that could bring our country to a precarious edge with the other alternative.
Think about the Supreme court's decisions for the next 50 years if you think about anything.
5
Just another stunningly disingenuous editorial from the Times, which has worked to hobble Sanders at every step and now dangles the bogeyman of Trump to coerce his followers, since the Supreme Court bogeyman proved ineffectual. If your sainted candidate Clinton was everything she has been billed to be, she wouldn't require such abject appeals from the plutocracy but would be surfing effortlessly on the crest of a wave into the White House.
176
Yes, the NYT absolutely subscribes to the Clintons. It's an establishment newspaper. There are alternatives that need subscribers to fund all the journalists. NYT is good for some articles, but when it comes to Clinton, they don't even bother with appearances
128
BB - This campaign season has been a real eye-opener for me. I thought I had sloughed off my naivete long ago but when I witnessed the gratuitously shabby treatment of Bernie Sanders by the Times and its columnists, all in lockstep, I felt betrayed by an old friend. Some writers, such as Paul Krugman, I can no longer take seriously because I have witnessed volatile and unseemly aspects of them that belie their carefully crafted personas. This paper has irrevocably squandered its credibility on a very iffy bet.
12
Rational voters don't have a choice. Voting for Trump would be absurd.
However, Clinton's vote for the Iraq War Resolution has never been explained.
A Presidential candidate should be able to provide an explanation. Merely
noting that her body and life were not at risk would not be enough.
However, Clinton's vote for the Iraq War Resolution has never been explained.
A Presidential candidate should be able to provide an explanation. Merely
noting that her body and life were not at risk would not be enough.
2
Andrew,
It's not that Hillary is mean or old it's that she is a Republican, a war monger and a liar.
It's not that Hillary is mean or old it's that she is a Republican, a war monger and a liar.
175
I'm a big Sanders supporter, and it has come to who is the bigger war monger and the bigger liar, trump or clinton. Such a disgusting we have, there is nothing we can do besides voting for clinton. Yelp!
22
Tim and BB have clearly fallen for the decades long smear campaign against Hillary by the Republicans. Typically there give no examples, facts or references.
Dou you guys believe she murdered Vince Foster?
PS I voted for Bernie in the primary and have written many comments supporting some of his positions.
But I am neither gullible nor stupid.
Dou you guys believe she murdered Vince Foster?
PS I voted for Bernie in the primary and have written many comments supporting some of his positions.
But I am neither gullible nor stupid.
9
She's also a corporate shill. Some of her deluded supporters think she's going to bring back Glass Steagall.
4
Perhaps the Brexit vote will scare Senator Sanders sufficientlt that he'll stop playing his dangerous game. Perhaps the SCOTUS stalemate on immigration will do the trick. Yesterday's events have changed the world, and it's time for him to make his commitment.
51
The Brexit vote has absolutely nothing to do with us.
1
"Let me warn you, and let me warn the nation against the smooth evasion that says, ‘Of course we believe these things. We believe in Social Security. We believe in work for the unemployed. We believe in saving homes. Cross our hearts and hope to die. We believe in all these things, but we do not like the way the present administration is doing them. Just turn them over to us. We will do all of them. We will do more of them, we will do them better, and most important of all, the doing of them will not cost anybody anything.’”
- 1936 Campaign Speech by President Franklin Roosevelt
That is what Republicans have said for 84 years. They're lies. They have attempted for generations to turn Social Security over to the tender ministrations of Wall Street. The latest was in 2005 when newly reelected George Bush pushed to get rid of Social Security and allow workers to start voluntary retirement accounts. This was the latest in a long history of trying to do just that. Just yesterday, Sen. Ron Johnson (R, WI) called Social Security a Ponzi scheme and advocated privatization.
So what? So watch what they do, not what they promise. Republicans have had the same goal for 100 years -- to serve the rich and only the rich. If we hand them the Presidency, both houses of Congress and that fifth SCOTUS judge this fall you kids are going to pay for it with your futures. They are deadly serious about doing this and other harm to you. Mr. Brooks is right, you need to vote in November.
- 1936 Campaign Speech by President Franklin Roosevelt
That is what Republicans have said for 84 years. They're lies. They have attempted for generations to turn Social Security over to the tender ministrations of Wall Street. The latest was in 2005 when newly reelected George Bush pushed to get rid of Social Security and allow workers to start voluntary retirement accounts. This was the latest in a long history of trying to do just that. Just yesterday, Sen. Ron Johnson (R, WI) called Social Security a Ponzi scheme and advocated privatization.
So what? So watch what they do, not what they promise. Republicans have had the same goal for 100 years -- to serve the rich and only the rich. If we hand them the Presidency, both houses of Congress and that fifth SCOTUS judge this fall you kids are going to pay for it with your futures. They are deadly serious about doing this and other harm to you. Mr. Brooks is right, you need to vote in November.
186
David, I think you are spot on in your assertion about the Republican's agenda and modus operandi. "Republicans have had the same goal for 100 years -- to serve the rich and only the rich." You left out one important obvious fact, since Reagan, so have The Clintons and the Democratic Party. "Duopoly" is a misnomer. The two headed Hydra is a monopoly (I'd call it a "kleptocracy," to be polite, but "criminal enterprise" seems more appropriate. A century from now, when a political history of the 21st Century is written, I wager that the Democratic Party will be portrayed akin to "Wilsonian Hooverism." I'm afraid we're "Effed."
3
You either do not understand the Sanders Campaign or do not care to understand it.
Before he announced his run, he openly travelled and campaigned to see the potential for a campaign- as usual ignored by the Times- and promised to make a full run and take it to the convention to give long-ignored Progressives a voice in the Democratic Party. The day he drops out all of our delegates are released and the whole campaign rendered useless.
If Senator Sanders wants to vote for Hillary he is free to do so, but I have no intention of ever voting for Hillary who I quite plainly see as a Republican in the wrong Party. The differences between Senator Sanders and the former First Lady are significant and considerable, so why should I give my one and only vote to someone who stands for things I do not support?
I will vote for either Bernie as a write in or the Green Party come November and whomever is elected will not be on my head. I think Trump is a moron, but see Hillary as as dangerous warmongering NeoLiberal who is a 1%er for the 1%. If you like her, feel free to vote for her, but do not think you can shame me into supporting her.
Should America get a President Trump it will be because the media and institutional Democratic Party chose an Insider Apparatchik instead of a real Progressive when America wants and needs change.
Before he announced his run, he openly travelled and campaigned to see the potential for a campaign- as usual ignored by the Times- and promised to make a full run and take it to the convention to give long-ignored Progressives a voice in the Democratic Party. The day he drops out all of our delegates are released and the whole campaign rendered useless.
If Senator Sanders wants to vote for Hillary he is free to do so, but I have no intention of ever voting for Hillary who I quite plainly see as a Republican in the wrong Party. The differences between Senator Sanders and the former First Lady are significant and considerable, so why should I give my one and only vote to someone who stands for things I do not support?
I will vote for either Bernie as a write in or the Green Party come November and whomever is elected will not be on my head. I think Trump is a moron, but see Hillary as as dangerous warmongering NeoLiberal who is a 1%er for the 1%. If you like her, feel free to vote for her, but do not think you can shame me into supporting her.
Should America get a President Trump it will be because the media and institutional Democratic Party chose an Insider Apparatchik instead of a real Progressive when America wants and needs change.
452
Thank you, Gregory, for telling it how it is. We are under no obligation to be dismissed as if we hadn't achieved one of the most amazing primary runs the DNC has ever seen in all its history. We are not bowing out to superpacs, no thank you very much. We are better than that.
53
david - You might find it beneficial to review the Florida results from Ralph Nader's 2000 campaign; you might also be surprised how many Dems around the country that are Hillary supporters eagerly look forward to Sanders returning to the Senate and keeping up the good fight to drag the Dems back to center-left from where they've been. If Hillary isn't in 1600 Penn, Bernie's last years in the Senate will be diminished.
45
Only Sanders' supporters - with their uncanny ahistorical lack of perspective - could sin rely assert that his campaign was "one of the most amazing primary runs the DNC has ever seen in all its history."
No disrespect to the Senator is tended, but seen from the scope of history, his run was not all that impressive. Not as impressive as winning candidates like McGovern, Carter, or even Dukakis; not as impressive as failing candidates like Gene McCarthy, RFK, or EMK. The maneuvering of Estes Kefauver and Hubert Humprey around the conventions of the '50s, and the dramatic nominatin of Stevenson in '52 (at the convention, without having run in a primary!) were also more amazing, although they did not really Volvo primaries in the same way.
Sanders' effort has been perfectly respectable, but he was soundly beaten, blew golden opportunities to knock he out early on, and ran a campaign mostly about stay getting alive through victories in closed caucuses while she steadily racked up points by blowing him out in most of the primaries.
Making the eventual winner grind it out may b considered an achievement, but in the light of the historic record, not a very towering one. I say this with n bitterness: Thirty years from now, few voters will even remember his name.
No disrespect to the Senator is tended, but seen from the scope of history, his run was not all that impressive. Not as impressive as winning candidates like McGovern, Carter, or even Dukakis; not as impressive as failing candidates like Gene McCarthy, RFK, or EMK. The maneuvering of Estes Kefauver and Hubert Humprey around the conventions of the '50s, and the dramatic nominatin of Stevenson in '52 (at the convention, without having run in a primary!) were also more amazing, although they did not really Volvo primaries in the same way.
Sanders' effort has been perfectly respectable, but he was soundly beaten, blew golden opportunities to knock he out early on, and ran a campaign mostly about stay getting alive through victories in closed caucuses while she steadily racked up points by blowing him out in most of the primaries.
Making the eventual winner grind it out may b considered an achievement, but in the light of the historic record, not a very towering one. I say this with n bitterness: Thirty years from now, few voters will even remember his name.
12
Sanders' reluctance to withdraw from the race reflects a genuine dilemma. If the senator admits defeat now and endorses Clinton, he weakens the cohesion of his movement and undermines Clinton's incentive for making concessions to him. If Sanders continues, on the other hand, to act as if his 1900 delegates pose a real threat to Clinton's coronation, he may inadvertently encourage his followers not to compromise. In either case, his ability to force concessions from the nominee could diminish.
Sanders also faces an additional difficulty, unrelated to his calculations about how to maximize his influence at the convention. The senator's improbable success in the campaign depended in part on his deep personal conviction that a challenge to the party establishment could in fact unleash a political revolution. Certainly he conveyed that optimism to his supporters.
That challenge has largely failed, but true believers always require a scapegoat to explain their defeat. Thus allegations questioning the legitimacy of the process, and even implying vote fraud, continue to circulate, along with personal attacks on Clinton that Trump must enjoy. Sanders' refusal publicly to discourage these tactics suggests that he rejects the principle that, in a democracy, political victory requires compromise and the formation of coalitions.
If he continues, in his quest for purity, to imply that Trump must lose, rather than that Clinton must win, he could seriously damage her chances.
Sanders also faces an additional difficulty, unrelated to his calculations about how to maximize his influence at the convention. The senator's improbable success in the campaign depended in part on his deep personal conviction that a challenge to the party establishment could in fact unleash a political revolution. Certainly he conveyed that optimism to his supporters.
That challenge has largely failed, but true believers always require a scapegoat to explain their defeat. Thus allegations questioning the legitimacy of the process, and even implying vote fraud, continue to circulate, along with personal attacks on Clinton that Trump must enjoy. Sanders' refusal publicly to discourage these tactics suggests that he rejects the principle that, in a democracy, political victory requires compromise and the formation of coalitions.
If he continues, in his quest for purity, to imply that Trump must lose, rather than that Clinton must win, he could seriously damage her chances.
43
@James Lee - Sanders has lost his bid, the majority of those who voted in the primaries chose Clinton. Why do you think you're owed concessions? Unless you live in Vermont, Sanders is no longer a choice for you. It's either Trump or Clinton, make your choice.
6
What I need from Mr. Sanders is that he acts like a leader and not a spoiled child who didn't get his way. I need him to gracefully acknowledge the fairness of his defeat, the historical importance of Ms. Clinton's candidacy and to inspire everyone who supported him to continue the good fight in a way that will make a positive difference. A true leader puts cause over personal disappointments and interest. Mr. Sanders has yet to show himself capable of doing that.
778
You know, Clinton is really lucky she ran against such a respectable person that is Sanders. At every stage of the race, he has had better options to demolish her and he chose the high road. So don't be so dismissive of the man just because your feminist baby boomer heart is itching to show America it was wrong to ever elect Obama over Clinton.
81
Why do you need Sanders to do anything, and why should he or his supporters pay any attention to you?
Your candidate won, and will be the Democratic nominee. Why do you demand that Sanders behave in some fashion to please you? To what end?
Your candidate won, and will be the Democratic nominee. Why do you demand that Sanders behave in some fashion to please you? To what end?
40
Dana, in the best of all political worlds, Bernie will "gracefully" make the acknowledgement of the Clinton win. The fact of it is this, as I see it: America must avoid at all costs another four to eight years of Republican intransigence. To do that, the Democrats not only need to win the Presidency, but the Houses of Congress. Win them. Otherwise, America loses.
If Bernie can muster strong support for Hillary, it will be a strong start in that direction,
As an 80 year-old, I would like to see America regroup but the American mindset if fisticuff ready, abrasive, confrontational, the list is long, and the divisive Republican Congress is fueling the destructive intransigence.
With our wealth-driven Congress being bought and sold, the only plausible solution is the vote.
We must vote for the change.
If Bernie can muster strong support for Hillary, it will be a strong start in that direction,
As an 80 year-old, I would like to see America regroup but the American mindset if fisticuff ready, abrasive, confrontational, the list is long, and the divisive Republican Congress is fueling the destructive intransigence.
With our wealth-driven Congress being bought and sold, the only plausible solution is the vote.
We must vote for the change.
5
Hillary needs to give Sanders something he can take to his supporters and say, 'see, we got blah, blah, blah' vote for the Dem ticket.' Otherwise it's a hollow concession speech and all those voters are lost.
I do not like Hillary myself, I respect her work ethic, I disagree with a lot of her decisions; however, there is too much at stake to not vote for her or the unthinkable, voting for donnie.
I do not like Hillary myself, I respect her work ethic, I disagree with a lot of her decisions; however, there is too much at stake to not vote for her or the unthinkable, voting for donnie.
326
She needs to keep her word. We are many, we outraised her, we don't submit to her corporate soul. Can she redeem herself? Because that's the only way Bernie would ever tell us to go vote for her. Bernie is a man of his word, he will not sacrifice us to some corporate warmonger. He has been generous in not criticizing her harder, but he is no pushover, which many people on the NYT EB seem to think. We want to see her say she wants to abolish superpacs, at a MINIMUM. Campaign finance reform. Need I say more. Once she does that, her lucrative corporate service life will end and she knows that. We believe in public service without millions of dollars of pay-off, does she? If not, she does not bear our name and she is not our candidate.
28
@BB - Thank goodness you cannot speak (no really, you can't) for all Sanders' supporters, just yourself.
5
Yup. The choice is clear. Hillary.
If given the choice between a fatal heart attack or lung cancer, that choice is clear too. Cancer.
If given the choice between a fatal heart attack or lung cancer, that choice is clear too. Cancer.
1
Yes, the Times, which has done its best to undermine Bernie over the course of this primary season, here shows its cynical colors: "If he wants a reward, fine. The Clinton campaign, for example, can make concessions on the party platform, which nobody talks about except on the day it’s adopted at the convention." We didn't need to see this in the Times, however, to appreciate that even after the trouncing Hillary took among younger voters, she would not do anything significant to really change her position. She pivoted left in the primaries to defeat Bernie, and she'll pivot right in the general election to defeat Trump. It's not hard to understand just why so many people distrust this woman, and the media and pundits who've supported her.
205
And took a trouncing in every other demographic -- all of which are far more historically likely to show up on election day.
He lost by fourteen points, by 3.8 million votes. He lost most open primaries, as well as most closed ones. He lost the majority of pledged delegates..
This was not a close race. remarkable to watch, sure. Important for the issues he brought forward (detail-free though his plans were), of course.
But he lost. Decisively. Every day he plays the pouting martyr he weakens his influence and helps Donald Trump.
He lost by fourteen points, by 3.8 million votes. He lost most open primaries, as well as most closed ones. He lost the majority of pledged delegates..
This was not a close race. remarkable to watch, sure. Important for the issues he brought forward (detail-free though his plans were), of course.
But he lost. Decisively. Every day he plays the pouting martyr he weakens his influence and helps Donald Trump.
27
Ok, so where is the pivot right? She is the only Dem candidate who is left on gun control--perhaps the most central issue of our time. You Bernie dreamers see only what you want rather than what is real.
7
Out of all the folks that originally entered the Presidential race, Hillary's the one coming out with the most integrity.
59
Judging from what has happened during the last twenty-four hours with the Briext vote and the president's executive order failing at the judicial level, in my judgement the rise of ugly populism with Trump as its "free world candidate for global leadership," we must implore Clinton to embrace Bernie Sanders as her vice presidential choice. There is a tide of reactionary ugliness sweeping the globe, and Mr. Sanders and Mrs. CLinton, as a team, are our last best hope.
14
The Vice Presidency isn't the most effective place for Sen Sanders. He should be in a Cabinet position--Health and Human Services? Interior? Education? Energy?--so he can focus his energy and his constituency and make some real progress on an important front.
2
@James Landi - If you want to ensure that Trump (or other Republican, as I still think the Repubs will try for a coup at the convention) wins the presidency, having Sanders as a VP would ensure that. Trump's insults of Hillary are nothing in comparison to what he will say about Sanders' long socialist history. He will equate it with communism.
6
What's the rush? Let the convention happen, let Bernie's supporters have their role there and in the interim, let Hillary have time to orchestrate her nomination. There are many long months ahead before the general election vote. Cool your jets.
62
I agree. It's amazing how the NYT is itching to remove Bernie from the scene, and forget about the nuisance forever. The corporates want us to forget that we are millions and that our voice matters. They want to free Hillary of her leftward swing of the Primaries, so she can go back to being a deep South Goldwater girl again. The Clintons have sold us out to the corporations. Prisons, banks, you name it. She needs to redeem herself from her past sins, and we will forgive
27
@BB - Your ignorance of Hillary Clinton's actual background and work in the real world is stunning. By the way, if you're really in Zurich (as opposed to just using it), you have no stake in what happens here.
9
The root of the problem is, absent campaign finance reform, there is no reason to believe that any promise by any candidate will ever be honored.
When the recommended candidate schedules her meeting with Elizabeth Warren just before she is hosting a big donor fund raiser in her home, it gives no confidence that anything has changed, or anything will change.
Is Bill going to stop giving his half a million dollar an hour speeches? Or does he still need a source of income to "pay the bills", his past explanation as to why he takes such fees.
When the recommended candidate schedules her meeting with Elizabeth Warren just before she is hosting a big donor fund raiser in her home, it gives no confidence that anything has changed, or anything will change.
Is Bill going to stop giving his half a million dollar an hour speeches? Or does he still need a source of income to "pay the bills", his past explanation as to why he takes such fees.
93
This. Thank you. There is absolutely nothing at which Clinton can point, which makes a Sanders heart explode with joy and go like - 'you know I think she will fight for me'. What is true instead is she will fight for Clinton. Seen it, done it, she can't help herself, she is addicted to money and she is above the law and all norms. So we wish her well on all her endeavors and that's about it.
However, for Clinton supporters, anyone who thinks along these lines is a racist, a sexist, and a Republican (as if that was an insult). Speaking of narrow-mindedness and any grandiose assumptions there, your highness? Clintonites are such fanatics they can't even see straight. Too bad Trump is on the other side, I really need a viable alternative so as to NOT vote for any of these two clowns of money and wars and hatred
However, for Clinton supporters, anyone who thinks along these lines is a racist, a sexist, and a Republican (as if that was an insult). Speaking of narrow-mindedness and any grandiose assumptions there, your highness? Clintonites are such fanatics they can't even see straight. Too bad Trump is on the other side, I really need a viable alternative so as to NOT vote for any of these two clowns of money and wars and hatred
47
Trump's Supreme Court nominees will not vote to allow campaign finance reform to pass their vision of Constitutional muster. We did have some laws in place -- which Hillary Clinton supported -- and they were struck down.
13
From Hillary's platform:
"End secret, unaccountable money in politics. Hillary will push for legislation to require outside groups to publicly disclose significant political spending. And until Congress acts, she'll sign an executive order requiring federal government contractors to do the same. Hillary will also promote an SEC rule requiring publicly traded companies to disclose political spending to shareholders.
Amplify the voices of everyday Americans. Hillary will establish a small-donor matching system for presidential and congressional elections to incentivize small donors to participate in elections, and encourage candidates to spend more time engaging a representative cross-section of voters."
I know, if X is good and Hillary opposes X, Hillary is bad. If Hillary supports X, she is lying.
"End secret, unaccountable money in politics. Hillary will push for legislation to require outside groups to publicly disclose significant political spending. And until Congress acts, she'll sign an executive order requiring federal government contractors to do the same. Hillary will also promote an SEC rule requiring publicly traded companies to disclose political spending to shareholders.
Amplify the voices of everyday Americans. Hillary will establish a small-donor matching system for presidential and congressional elections to incentivize small donors to participate in elections, and encourage candidates to spend more time engaging a representative cross-section of voters."
I know, if X is good and Hillary opposes X, Hillary is bad. If Hillary supports X, she is lying.
11
What I have seen, is those Sanders fans have listened to and believe all the negative lies and stories about her.
They repeat the tales told in the WSJ, it looks like the listen to Rush and watch Fox for their information. When I was their age, my friends and I had the same beliefs these current Sanders people have now. His movement is not new, it was big in the late 1950s, it was the purview of the university students who suddenly discovered the world was not what they thought it was. The primary difference being, the are not going to be drafted to fight in some war brought about by the Dulles brothers.
They are not going to get shot at on their campus, or murdered by some sheriff in Mississippi. But, their politics are the same, just called a different name. They are a generation that got rewards for just being, now they are finding out they will have to work for them. When the bills are due, and their credit is in question, then we will see what they want the rest of us to do for them. They say the government, well it is we who have been working and paying the bills who are the government, so what are we going to get from you? if you help Trump win, we will take revenge on you, I can guarantee it.
They repeat the tales told in the WSJ, it looks like the listen to Rush and watch Fox for their information. When I was their age, my friends and I had the same beliefs these current Sanders people have now. His movement is not new, it was big in the late 1950s, it was the purview of the university students who suddenly discovered the world was not what they thought it was. The primary difference being, the are not going to be drafted to fight in some war brought about by the Dulles brothers.
They are not going to get shot at on their campus, or murdered by some sheriff in Mississippi. But, their politics are the same, just called a different name. They are a generation that got rewards for just being, now they are finding out they will have to work for them. When the bills are due, and their credit is in question, then we will see what they want the rest of us to do for them. They say the government, well it is we who have been working and paying the bills who are the government, so what are we going to get from you? if you help Trump win, we will take revenge on you, I can guarantee it.
76
Feisty words coming from a baby boomer. You may pay your own bills and those of the kids you fathered, but your generation certainly loaded the next generations -plural - with lots of debt.
And in terms of having Trump elected - if after the convention, your candidate can't win against a loser like Trump, don't look at Sanders supporters or their candidate to place any blame. The Clintons already were so toxic their reputation contributed to Al Gore's disappointing loss against a rehabilitated cokehead monkey. As unlikely as it is for any respectable politician deserving of that name to lose against Trump, there is a tiny chance that it may happen, because in general terms, Hillary Clinton is about as effective as a self-victimizing warmongering toddler who was told she's the special snowflake of America that can do no wrong unless her critics are "racists, hate women and are Republicans anyways"- actual words of an average deluded Clinton supporter. A wet baby boomer nightmare Hillary is, basically. And who says we won't need the draft with HER. You'll be sipping beers in retirement as she sends our generation to another war for Goldman Sachs. All hail the chief
And in terms of having Trump elected - if after the convention, your candidate can't win against a loser like Trump, don't look at Sanders supporters or their candidate to place any blame. The Clintons already were so toxic their reputation contributed to Al Gore's disappointing loss against a rehabilitated cokehead monkey. As unlikely as it is for any respectable politician deserving of that name to lose against Trump, there is a tiny chance that it may happen, because in general terms, Hillary Clinton is about as effective as a self-victimizing warmongering toddler who was told she's the special snowflake of America that can do no wrong unless her critics are "racists, hate women and are Republicans anyways"- actual words of an average deluded Clinton supporter. A wet baby boomer nightmare Hillary is, basically. And who says we won't need the draft with HER. You'll be sipping beers in retirement as she sends our generation to another war for Goldman Sachs. All hail the chief
47
BB - The largest debt as a percentage of GDP we ever had was after WWII. The public debt ratio was 109%, 47% larger than today's public debt ratio. Was all this debt from the "Greatest Generation" loaded on later generations?
Of course not. In fact from 1946 to 1973 we increased the debt in dollars by 75%. We had deficits 21 out of those 27 years. And that period has been called the "Great Prosperity." GDP growth averaged 3.8% and real median household income increased 74%.
What happened to the debt? Well, since we had even more debt which we invested in America, that debt became insignificant.
The finances of a huge long lived country that can print the currency its debt is in are far different than your personal finances. For example, ALL 6 times we did significantly (>10%) pay down the debt by eliminating deficits for more than 3 years we immediately fell into a real gut wrenching depression. The one time we paid it entirely off, in 1935, the panic of 1837 started our longest depression.
What was that definition of insanity?
PS - If you want to raise the "Europe was Rubble Myth,". look at http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/files/capital21c/en/pdf/F1.1.pdf which shows that the output of Europe was about the same as the US in the Great Prosperity 1946 - 1973.
Of course not. In fact from 1946 to 1973 we increased the debt in dollars by 75%. We had deficits 21 out of those 27 years. And that period has been called the "Great Prosperity." GDP growth averaged 3.8% and real median household income increased 74%.
What happened to the debt? Well, since we had even more debt which we invested in America, that debt became insignificant.
The finances of a huge long lived country that can print the currency its debt is in are far different than your personal finances. For example, ALL 6 times we did significantly (>10%) pay down the debt by eliminating deficits for more than 3 years we immediately fell into a real gut wrenching depression. The one time we paid it entirely off, in 1935, the panic of 1837 started our longest depression.
What was that definition of insanity?
PS - If you want to raise the "Europe was Rubble Myth,". look at http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/files/capital21c/en/pdf/F1.1.pdf which shows that the output of Europe was about the same as the US in the Great Prosperity 1946 - 1973.
11
BB, if Clinton is just greedy for money and power...why isn't she a Republican auditioning for Koch, Adelson, and the other right-wing anarchist billionaires? And if she's so easily bought, why has the right-wing smear machine poured perhaps a billion dollars into an organized, multi-pronged, 30-year war against her? They used Congress, all the media and even the Supreme Court against her! The Citizens United case was about the conservatives' right to attack Hillary Clinton.
Why waste so much when they can buy her for a $250,000 speech? How does any of this comport with beliefs that she's not really liberal or progressive, that she's secretly a right-winger? How can that conclusion possibly make sense to you? I vote with what right-wing money tells me -- she is a highly effective, pragmatic, unstoppable liberal, and the Republicans' worst nightmare.
Why waste so much when they can buy her for a $250,000 speech? How does any of this comport with beliefs that she's not really liberal or progressive, that she's secretly a right-winger? How can that conclusion possibly make sense to you? I vote with what right-wing money tells me -- she is a highly effective, pragmatic, unstoppable liberal, and the Republicans' worst nightmare.
9
Had Mr. Rosenthal published this op-ed 24 hours ago, I might have agreed with at least some of it. After the UK's vote to leave the EU and the consequences that have already begun to manifest themselves, I am afraid we are in a completely new situation, one that bolsters the progressive view.
Last month's jobs numbers were down for the third month in a row, in part, due to the weak recovery and in part, due to the strong dollar. Post Brexit, the dollar just got stronger and the chances of a new recession greater.
In a new Gallup poll, Mrs. Clinton beats Donald Trump by a wide margin in only one area: experience. On everything else, she is within single digits, including on things like standing up to special interests, getting things done, working with Congress, etc. In today's new reality, this should alarm the powers that be and prompt Mrs. Clinton to invite Bernie Sanders for a second meeting. This time, however, she had better be prepared to meet Sanders more than half way. After what happened in the UK, it should be pretty clear that an extreme right-wing government is possible. Not winning six million of Sanders' voters is not an option.
This election cycle is about real change and a new direction for our economy. It's also about trust. My full post-Brexit analysis here: http://wp.me/p2KJ3H-2k4
Last month's jobs numbers were down for the third month in a row, in part, due to the weak recovery and in part, due to the strong dollar. Post Brexit, the dollar just got stronger and the chances of a new recession greater.
In a new Gallup poll, Mrs. Clinton beats Donald Trump by a wide margin in only one area: experience. On everything else, she is within single digits, including on things like standing up to special interests, getting things done, working with Congress, etc. In today's new reality, this should alarm the powers that be and prompt Mrs. Clinton to invite Bernie Sanders for a second meeting. This time, however, she had better be prepared to meet Sanders more than half way. After what happened in the UK, it should be pretty clear that an extreme right-wing government is possible. Not winning six million of Sanders' voters is not an option.
This election cycle is about real change and a new direction for our economy. It's also about trust. My full post-Brexit analysis here: http://wp.me/p2KJ3H-2k4
169
I know, I just know that instead of considering a point of view not your own, you will slam whatever opposing comments come your way after this post. But I'll bite.
Just for ha-ha's, let's say that the roles were reversed, and Bernie Sanders was right now the presumptive Democratic nominee. Clinton, petulant woman that she is, is withholding endorsement.
Donald Trump is still the GOP nominee.
"In today's new reality, this should alarm the powers that be and prompt Mr. Sanders to invite Hillary Clinton for a second meeting. This time, however, he had better be prepared to meet Clinton more than half way. After what happened in the UK, it should be pretty clear that an extreme right-wing government is possible. Not winning 6 million of Clinton's voters in not an option."
Try to put this scenario in your mind, and imagine how all of your fervent Sanders supporters would feel right now if your candidate was in the top Democratic Party position, and one step away from the Presidency. Standing between him and a right-wing government of disastrous proportions is Trump. What would you be saying about how much Sanders would need to bow to Clinton supporters to get their votes in November?
I know one thing. If this were the case, you would be posting your "full analysis" everywhere about how Hillary Clinton is standing in the way of Bernie Sanders righteous march to the White House, and the dire need to keep Trump away from it.
Just for ha-ha's, let's say that the roles were reversed, and Bernie Sanders was right now the presumptive Democratic nominee. Clinton, petulant woman that she is, is withholding endorsement.
Donald Trump is still the GOP nominee.
"In today's new reality, this should alarm the powers that be and prompt Mr. Sanders to invite Hillary Clinton for a second meeting. This time, however, he had better be prepared to meet Clinton more than half way. After what happened in the UK, it should be pretty clear that an extreme right-wing government is possible. Not winning 6 million of Clinton's voters in not an option."
Try to put this scenario in your mind, and imagine how all of your fervent Sanders supporters would feel right now if your candidate was in the top Democratic Party position, and one step away from the Presidency. Standing between him and a right-wing government of disastrous proportions is Trump. What would you be saying about how much Sanders would need to bow to Clinton supporters to get their votes in November?
I know one thing. If this were the case, you would be posting your "full analysis" everywhere about how Hillary Clinton is standing in the way of Bernie Sanders righteous march to the White House, and the dire need to keep Trump away from it.
36
I agree Hillary needs to go out there and bring Bernie's camp in for real. Just because she co-opted some of his popular policy suggestions during the campaign, as Clintons are well-known to do, she needs to stick to them by making it the DNC platform. Otherwise we know she'll just follow the smell of money, and Bernie voters are all against that. Gosh how hard can it be to get rid of one's Wall Street addiction. Wait, I forgot she needs 100m in the bank to "pay her bills"
38
I am deeply concerned about the persistence of this type of thinking. Bernie Sanders lost by a wide margin. The base of the Democratic Party voted for Hillary Clinton. Although I understand that Sanders supporters feel certain they are right about many things, and that this is progressive moment, we have just seen the forces of reaction win a terrifying victory that threatens the very idea of Europe. Donald Trump now threatens us in a way that is all too similar. It is no exaggeration to say that xenophobia, racism, chauvinism, a parochialism that speaks to what's worst in America, a seamless ignorance, vindictiveness, narcissism, dishonesty, and impotent, self-defeating rage are at the gates, rocking the foundational aspirations of our nation, as they may have just broken England.
It is past time for Senator Sanders and his supporters to stop trying to dictate terms to the winner, regardless of her shortcomings and even assuming Sanders possesses all the virtues his supporters imagine he does. As Mr. Rosenthal writes, it is instead time for Mr. Sanders to endorse Clinton and get to the vital work of stopping Trump. We shouldn't kid ourselves; It CAN happen here. It is urgent for patriotic Sanders progressives to stop looking at Mrs. Clinton as an enemy to be contained, and to start looking at her as what she really is: the only thing standing between us and ruin.
It is past time for Senator Sanders and his supporters to stop trying to dictate terms to the winner, regardless of her shortcomings and even assuming Sanders possesses all the virtues his supporters imagine he does. As Mr. Rosenthal writes, it is instead time for Mr. Sanders to endorse Clinton and get to the vital work of stopping Trump. We shouldn't kid ourselves; It CAN happen here. It is urgent for patriotic Sanders progressives to stop looking at Mrs. Clinton as an enemy to be contained, and to start looking at her as what she really is: the only thing standing between us and ruin.
71
Fitting words from A. Rosenthal
What's Hillary's response withal,
I would like to know
Hillary's quid pro quo,
A Trump victory to forestall.
If Hjllary is more forthcoming
The votes of Young Folk will be humming,
Left leavening will
More fire instill,
The thought of Trump victory's numbing!
What's Hillary's response withal,
I would like to know
Hillary's quid pro quo,
A Trump victory to forestall.
If Hjllary is more forthcoming
The votes of Young Folk will be humming,
Left leavening will
More fire instill,
The thought of Trump victory's numbing!
23
Sanders is not a man, it is a movement. Hilary and the establishment need to address the demands of 12 million voters (issues of student debt, jobs, wages that reflect their needs, economic inequality, and political democracy.) thinking of Sanders as an individual only condescends to the young supporters as immature and and bent on personality cults. Sanders voters have their legitimate demands that need to be satisfied by the so called Democratic Establishment. Lewis and Sanders were young anti racist fighters in their youth. Where was Hilary then?
187
The wording of the last question seems designed to make the statement that Hillary is some Johnny-come-lately to the cause of advancing civil rights but I think it more accurately reflects a lack of knowledge and incorrect assumptions about her past. The extensive work she has done throughout her entire adult life for the advancement of racial and gender equality would take far more space to catalog than is available in this space but one easily digestible video that would provide a glimpse of her work is the Meryl Streep introductory speech at the 2012 women of the world awards. The tone of your comment makes me question whether you actually want to learn the truth that will conflict with the Hillary as corporate shill construct that has been pushed by some Bernie supporters but if you are open to new information then it's freely available.
58
After graduating from Yale law school, Hillary eschewed a big firm to work for The Children's Defense fund in Massachusetts collecting testimonials about the lack of schooling for children with disabilities that contributed to passage of legislation that required the state to provide quality education for students with disabilities.
Her next job was working as a lawyer on the congressional committee investigating Wall Street. She then moved to Arkansas with new beau Bill where she taught law and ran legal clinics representing disenfranchised people. She co-founded Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, one of the state's first child advocacy groups.
Bill was elected governor and as first lady of Arkansas Ms Clinton championed improving educational standards and health care access.
After Bill was elected POTUS, Clinton led the fight on Capitol Hill to create a single payer health care system for the entire U.S. After insurance companies, the AMA and other health care interests beat back that effort, Ms Clinton pushed through the Children's Health Insurance Program giving health coverage to 8 million children, cutting the rate for the uninsured in half.
That good enough for you?
Her next job was working as a lawyer on the congressional committee investigating Wall Street. She then moved to Arkansas with new beau Bill where she taught law and ran legal clinics representing disenfranchised people. She co-founded Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, one of the state's first child advocacy groups.
Bill was elected governor and as first lady of Arkansas Ms Clinton championed improving educational standards and health care access.
After Bill was elected POTUS, Clinton led the fight on Capitol Hill to create a single payer health care system for the entire U.S. After insurance companies, the AMA and other health care interests beat back that effort, Ms Clinton pushed through the Children's Health Insurance Program giving health coverage to 8 million children, cutting the rate for the uninsured in half.
That good enough for you?
251
Lewis is on record as not remembering Bernie Sanders the "anti-racist fighter" at all. He does however remember Hillary Clinton's decades of voting, working and supporting the causes of People of Color.
Bernie's decision to chose petulance over party unity is not surprising considering his past behavior during previous campaigns and in his voting record as a legislator. Just ask the Newtown families.
The issues of student debt, jobs and wages have been part of Hillary Clinton's platform for a year now and, unlike Sanders, she actually has position papers with realistic plans to achieve them and pay for them.
It can't be helped that so many young people prefer promises to an actual plan to achieve the issues they care about. Unless we believe that Donald Trump is a good choice to lead our country and choose our Supreme Court, we had better hope that Bernie's army of young voters grow up fast.
Bernie's decision to chose petulance over party unity is not surprising considering his past behavior during previous campaigns and in his voting record as a legislator. Just ask the Newtown families.
The issues of student debt, jobs and wages have been part of Hillary Clinton's platform for a year now and, unlike Sanders, she actually has position papers with realistic plans to achieve them and pay for them.
It can't be helped that so many young people prefer promises to an actual plan to achieve the issues they care about. Unless we believe that Donald Trump is a good choice to lead our country and choose our Supreme Court, we had better hope that Bernie's army of young voters grow up fast.
87
Having granted EVERY American the right to vote why be fearful of the result?
If Democracy is the "right" approach to governing, then, whatever it produces should not be railed against as if some small elite at the NY Times is better able to divine an outcome.
Perhaps the Wall Street Banks have found a way to have "lunch" with NY Times editors??