Knicks Trade for Bulls’ Derrick Rose but Have More Work to Do

Hey, Phil, don't overlook Jeremy Lin. He'll fit right in with the new no-defense, attack guard mess that is the Knicks.

I think this deal could in some ways work for the Knicks. No one is expecting them to be in the play offs next year, so the expectation is to get better as a team. Rose will bring some excitement to the Garden as well as a interesting 3rd option on offense. If they find a workable 5 (as good as or an up grade to Lopez) they could evolve into a competitive team.

the "heart" of Thibodeaux Bulls team were Noah and kirk hinrich

Let's hope the Knicks sign Dwight Howard, too. This team would be incredible...if it was the year 2011.

There are many players in the NBA who can score. But what the recent playoffs showed was that defense and athleticism is key to keeping a team in a game and eventually scoring a win.

The Knicks have one of the least athletic teams. Maybe a healthy Rose is an upgrade. We'll see. Certainly a healthy Noah would be, but I think the Knicks should simply bite the bullet and go for youth and athleticism. Even if they don't make the playoffs they should stay committed to rebuilding.

James Dolon seems bent on continuing to make this bad situation in New York worse. Absorbing a bloated contract from a player who is on the tail end of his prime, and trading away key pieces that could have been, instead, released to secure cap space and attract a more readily available superstar. Melo's whole career has been somewhat defined by having a powerhouse in himself, while playing along side mediocre teammates. This is not going to help the situation much, 34 games won maximum.

As others noted, the expiring contract is a big part of the equation.

80-85% of Derrick Rose is a superior player. However, you can't make the club in the tub. And Rose has been reluctant to suit up when he does not feel right.

Phil Jackson has high basketball acumen. However, this will take time. Porzingis has to mature into a star. They must discharge Carmelo. And then use the cap space made available by Rose's contract and get a bona fide star.

ANOTHER injury-prone, damaged and probably over-the-hill, probable attitude problem ("not too interested in drastically changing the way he plays") touted as the salvation of the Knicks?

In related news, yesterday's Times listed the annual NBA draft order among the teams...with NO choice for the Knicks!

It wold be hard to make this stuff up! Truth really is stranger than fiction!

"marque player" as

I have been surprised how little respect Jackson has received in his present role with the Knicks. For years the franchise has consistently made the wrong choices in the long range structure of the team and in a refreshing change of approach Jackson has not overspent or overcommitted to players in the false belief that names alone will be enough. Madison Square Garden has always been the Knicks' biggest obstacle but thankfully the Zen Master has been more interested in hoop than hoopla. Its easy to pick on the Knicks, but under Jackson they have more future potential than they have had for years. So yes there is work to be done but at least there are resources available to complete the job.

If you're reading this - fat chance, I know - Phil, DON'T sign Dwight Howard. He's an overrated, underperforming, immature loser. Go for Noah and slowly bring along the Spanish center we're hearing so much about. KP says the guy is the real deal and I'm all for stocking the Knicks with young talent. Let's be done with the failed policy of trading away our future or signing hired guns. Rose obviously is a gamble but if his health returns, this is a steal. The guy can play. He doesn't need to shoulder the bulk of the load for the Knicks. But if he's a consistent 16-18 ppg player, he can help spring Melo and KP for lots of easy baskets.

And while you're at it, bring Jimmer back into training camp for a longer look. Rambis was unfair and never gave him serious time on the court. What do you have to lose?

The best part of all this is that Jackson has opened his mind to 21st Century professional basketball. Players (rookies and vets alike) are not accustomed to the rigidity and constraints of the Triangle Offense and all of its myriad reads and options. They rely on their instincts and impulses in the moment which should actually appeal to the supposedly mindful and Zen-like Jackson. Simplicity is its own artistry and this is embodied in the best teams in the game: Golden State, Cleveland, OKC, and San Antonio. I think Phil has realized what works in today's NBA and what style of basketball players enjoy playing and fans enjoy watching. It might not be his vision of the game, but a true Zen-master has no fixed vision. Hopefully, Jackson's hiring of Hornacek and trade for D-Rose means he has begun to seek innovation and will allow his coaches and players to strive for originality on the court.

Snore. Call me when we make the playoffs again.

I've supported this team for over 30 years, most of them in excruciating pain. I just can't do it anymore.

Rose is special. I know everyone is typically focused on their own NBA squad and what you see and read regarding other players is pretty peripheral. Yes, Rose has had some durability issues, however the Chicago Bulls training staff did him no favors either. All he needs is a fresh start and EVEN at 70% he's still an impact player. He will not shrink from the moment, he's still great going left to right. He will REGULARLY destroy the opposing PG, whoever it is and is still capable of dominating his position. He can get to the hoop at will. Not as explosive to go up and dunk like he used to but he has a variety of floaters and finishing moves inside 5 feet. You still have to flat out game plan against this guy and I'm sorry I knew he had to be moved, but for what we got for him, you guys got a STEAL. Enjoy my favorite player, he's about to put on a show at MSG.

The worrisome scenario for the Knicks is NOT that Rose is injured or ineffective next season - because in that case, the Knicks only have to be stuck with him for next season. No, the worrisome scenario is that Rose has a good, maybe even great, season, signs a big-money extension next summer - and THEN reverts back to his injury-prone past, in which case the Knicks will be stuck with him for a lot longer than just one season. Given the Knicks' history since 2000, which of the two do you consider to be the likelier scenario? Many would say the second.

Phil Jackson's best days are behind him - they were great. I'm afraid Derrick's are as well.

Dolan and the Knick's management can't seem to figure it out. The team is now associated with losers. It's a quite a fall from the glory days - I think we've had winning seasons in only 3 of the last 14 years - it's pathetic.

New Yorkers deserve better - the city deserves a better basketball team.

The Knicks actually have $40MM in cap space now. Salary cap is rising to $94MM, and Knicks only have $54MM in salary commitments now that they've released Wroten.

It's ironic that J.R. Smith and Iman Shumpert, so vilified in New York, became good, if not excellent, players in Cleveland. And now possess at least one thing neither Carmelo Anthony nor any of their other teammates from the era when they awful players may never earn, a championship ring.

I doubt Jackson would saddle Hornacek with team chemistry and coach killer Howard. Let him take his baggage elsewhere.

Rose can still play at a high level, so if he stays healthy the deal works. However -- for the Knicks to be taken seriously -- the Knicks will need to add a center, a big power forward who can rebound the ball, a big guard (or someone) with a "money" jump shot, a solid point guard to back up D. Rose, and 2 or 3 role players who can provide quality minutes.

In his prime Mr. Rose was somethin' else. Nobody had the first step he did. Nobody could go coast to coast like he could.

But those days are clearly behind him.

Mr. Jackson must have something in mind that I can't grasp. A Rose with no more bloom for a hard working NBA center?

Iceland just beat Austria to advance in Euro '16. So did the Republic of Ireland. To say nothing of Wales! There are team lessons to be learned there.

Let's hope we can say the same thing about the Knicks next spring.
Here's hoping that better days are ahead for the Knickerbockers.

"Like Dolan, Carmelo Anthony should be happy with the deal, at least until Rose launches one of those step-back 23-footers in the dying seconds of a 1-point game."

When was the last time Carmelo took a final shot that won a game ?
Not blaming the Knicks woes on him,but the last couple of years in this situation, he has come up empty. At least with Rose, opponents won't collapse on Melo....and we'll have another option.

Maybe Phil Jackson is betting that we have better orthopedic surgeons here in New York.

Is it too late to include Dolan in the trade? That must happen before the Knicks' dysfunction can be overcome.

I don't understand the Knicks' thinking. If Rose does well, the Knicks would still look at other free agents to fill his role, especially given Rose's age and health. if he does not do well, you gave up a solid center in Robin Lopez, someone who would flourish if he had more help outside the arc, for one year of continued mediocrity. The Knicks should be looking at fielding a competitive team for the 2017-2018 season. They should be able to land two marquis players in free agency and a first-round draft pick as well. Otherwise, it's the same-old same-old.

At first glance, Rose's traditional stats; 16 points and 4 assists per game seem respectable enough but his shooting percentage has dropped significantly and the Bulls have played much better defense whenever Rose is not on the floor.

At this point, Robin Lopez is probably a better (and more marketable) player. Jerian Grant is a decent prospect. It was too much to give up for a player whose team was trying to unload him.

Your companion article mentions a legal matter confronting Mr. Rose. I suspect that will come to dominate the Knicks' upcoming season. Perhaps that is what Mr. Dolan wants. They could bring in the ghost of Red Holzman and it wouldn't matter until Dolan is gone. Dolan has destroyed a great franchise and poisoned the memories of countless fans.

One thought for all you doubters: contract year!

Harvey, not a huge fan of this deal at the moment - butI also have to see what else Phil has in store.

I thought Lopez had a terrific season last year, despite inconsistent minutes. He was the guy playing as hard in meaningless games in April as he was in still meaningful games in November. He really did grow on me, and sincerely wanted to be here. He's a professional, and understands the business for sure, but I can't help thinking that Phil did him wrong.

Grant showed promise but obviously was a work in process. Who knows what he becomes?

What we know about Rose is: one) he's an expiring contract; 2) he's had both knees surgically repaired before the age of 27. If the presence of Rose and Anthony can help land a big-time free agent this offseason, then maybe the risk is worth it.

Otherwise, this trade looks to me like a pure salary dump for 2017. It also has me mentally linking Phil to a previous NY GM, Phil Esposito, who acquired the nickname "Trader Phil" during his tenure as the Rangers' GM. Esposito seemed to make a trade every month, and was constantly turning moving his mistakes - thus making the establishment of continuity impossible.

Jackson just dealt two guys he acquired only last year, one of whom IMHO had a terrific year, and should have been a core piece going forward.

Jackson still has time to pull a few rabbits out of his hat, but has yet to honestly impress me as a GM. The best you can say is that he's not mortgaging our future, like Isiah.

Is Phil Jackson intent on making me a non-believer?

Porzingis and Hornacek I got (or thought I did).

Rose? Isn't he the head, emotions and mindset sunk in his hands, slumped on the bench guy? What, other than dated history does he bring to the Knicks? I hope there's something else we should know!

Where's the emotional fireplug the team needs? (Bye Lopez and all the effort you put on the court) What does the strange looking but now often great playing Westbrook or the re-ignited (or ignited) Irving bring? The Knicks don't have to dream about getting them, but that's the kind of energy they need.

And Dwight Howard? If that happens, then I know Jackson's Zen is just a facade hiding emptiness. Mr. Screw-Up the locker room. Mr. My Stats not wins are what counts. Mr. I Haven't Made A Difference anywhere I played. Please!

Seriously? Once again, Dolan goes for an injury-prone marquee player who will bring in tourist revenue from Madison Square Garden without advancing the team's chances in any way.

When the Tyson Chandler trade (to clear cap space) was ridiculed nobody could foresee that Phil Jackson would later replace him with Robin Lopez, who is significantly younger, less costly, a reliable paint defender and able to score with his back to the basket. So nobody knows if Rose will succeed/stay beyond one year. Who is a free agent in 2017? Chris Paul (likely) & he wants to play with fellow #brotherhood member Carmelo (LeBron and Wade are the other charter members). Who else? Russell Westbrook. Either would likely be an upgrade to fill cap space cleared by Rose's expiring contract if he underperforms and leaves as a free agent. When you lose a free agent you don't get nothing in return-- you get cap space to use on other talent.

Phil Jackson historically thinks big picture. On the first game of a back to back he would routinely give MJ and Kobe more rest to start the 4th quarter realizing he may need to play them big minutes the next night. Usually they remained fresh the next night and performed their late game clutchness. That's how Phil thinks, he doesn't pander to placate season ticket holders. All he wants to do is honor his mentor Red Holzman's legacy by getting the Knicks back to the promised land playing the right way: hitting the open man.

This is the start of year 3. Let's see where he's at in year 5. Remember when Golden State traded Monta for Bogut? The day Cleveland drafted Kyrie? This takes time. Let's see how this summer, this season & next summer go.