Every time I see the NRA's Wayne LaPierre on TV, I just want to throw up. I swear he is without a conscience. But I blame the media for constantly giving him a platform to spout his venom. I wish he had to attend all the funerals and see the carnage first hand. And yes, I own a hunting rifle that is dear to me because it was my Dad's. And those should be legal. But these assault weapons, really Wayne. Really?
Is there anything to be said about manufacturing and distribution of those things? Anything at all?
Would the New York Times please show the listing of how the Senators voted?
6
I just cannot believe this. Everyone of them should resign.
1
Shame shame shame on the Republicans. I wouldn't want to wish gun violence upon them, but perhaps they would be more motivated if ever personally affected. I cannot imagine the pain of those personally affected by this horrific violence having to watch the Republican inaction and dirty bidding to the NRA. The Republicans know no shame.
6
so after all of the anti-terrorism measures that we've already taken. Patriot Act collecting data without a warrant, Gitmo, invasive security procedures that we have to undertake in order to travel, the Right is now concerned about Due Process? They say that we have to do whatever we can to fight terrorism everywhere it turns up, at home, and abroad. We must defeat ISIS and all it stands for, and we have to protect our citizens at home from the evil that is anyone brown or different. Yet, they quail when their very own no-fly list is used against them to try and make guns harder to buy for a very small group of people, because "Due Process". The FBI can read my emails and tap my phones without a warrant if they suspect I'm a terrorist, but by god, I can still buy a gun. Logic. Right.
5
That senators in the aftermath of yet another massacre were unable or unwilling to find some way to enact some kind of additional gun safety measure is obscene. This kind of legislative irresponsibility is precisely the reason that the American people in both parties, on the left and the right, hold the US Congress in such contempt.
1
If these goofballs in Congress want to start on gun control and they want to align it with the terrorism issue, they should start with actually coming up with a system to ensure that people do not end up on a watch list, unless there is hard evidence of terrorist involvement, instead of, as the Democrats have done already using the IRS, use the lists for political targeting.
2
Contrary to the politicians and wrong headed opinions of the gun control crowd (from today Guardian)
The shock and horror that follows mass shootings has led to an obsessive focus on the dangers of military-style rifles – even though rifles of any kind were used in less than 3% of gun murders in 2014, according to FBI data.
A tunnel focus on mass shootings has also fueled the public perception that mental illness is driving gun violence. But experts caution that even miraculously curing all schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and major depression in American might only lead to a 4% reduction in overall violence.
A debate conducted in the aftermath of mass shootings has also prompted a huge public investment in guarding and fortifying public schools against shootings, even though the typical school can expect to see a student homicide only once every 6,000 years, according to safety expert Dewey Cornell.
The shock and horror that follows mass shootings has led to an obsessive focus on the dangers of military-style rifles – even though rifles of any kind were used in less than 3% of gun murders in 2014, according to FBI data.
A tunnel focus on mass shootings has also fueled the public perception that mental illness is driving gun violence. But experts caution that even miraculously curing all schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and major depression in American might only lead to a 4% reduction in overall violence.
A debate conducted in the aftermath of mass shootings has also prompted a huge public investment in guarding and fortifying public schools against shootings, even though the typical school can expect to see a student homicide only once every 6,000 years, according to safety expert Dewey Cornell.
3
Using deaths caused by an Islamic terrorist to push a "progressive" agenda of restricting constitutionally protected rights is obscene. Thankfully the Senate rejected the measures.
1
Sandy Hook was not perpetrated by an Islamic terrorist. Nor were most gun deaths in the US.
2
So, should we allow full auto machine guns and mortar launchers for public purchase? Aren't these also constitutionally protected by your reasoning? AR-15's are military weapons. A layperson has no rational need of one.
2
Nor are most gun death attributable to rifles, so-called "assault" or otherwise. Let's be truthful: the majority of gun deaths are suicides. The majority of murders are committed with handguns. Let's do something about the handguns which are killing people every single day.
The NRA has done a masterful job of convincing their members, and other gun owners, that the push for sensible gun laws means that they are in danger of having their guns confiscated. This has never been recommended by anyone.
The proposal to tighten gun ownership laws addresses the need for universal background checks and the elimination of the sale of automatic weapons. No hunter, or target shooter, requires an automatic, or semi-automatic, weapon, with a high capacity magazine, to pursue their hobby.
The proposal to tighten gun ownership laws addresses the need for universal background checks and the elimination of the sale of automatic weapons. No hunter, or target shooter, requires an automatic, or semi-automatic, weapon, with a high capacity magazine, to pursue their hobby.
Disgraceful, disgraceful, disgraceful!!! Every last one of those worthless bums should resign immediately and get a job selling shoes.
No comment department:
"Both Clintons and Obama are protected 24/7 by guys with guns"
I actually favor gun control but I do not favor all the hysteria whose primary purpose seems to be to bash Republicans....
Whenever there is an election, Truth is the first casualty. And in America there ALWAYS is an election!
"Both Clintons and Obama are protected 24/7 by guys with guns"
I actually favor gun control but I do not favor all the hysteria whose primary purpose seems to be to bash Republicans....
Whenever there is an election, Truth is the first casualty. And in America there ALWAYS is an election!
Yep. The Senate (and House of Reps) can't do anything about guns, the environment, infrastructure, jobs, or education, but they can hold hearings on Olympic doping, the IRS, and Benghazi. I'm beginning to think these guys/gals all just want to bring back the Inquisition so they can sit in judgment of others. That's certainly a lot easier than doing something helpful for their constituents.
2
I think this article should be the nytimes.com lead story everyday until the Senate passes gun control legislation.
And post each of the senators names and photos who vote against this legislation like the victims of Orlando, Newtown, etc. And publish their constituencies so people around the world know who they are and can write letters to them and their communities demanding change.
And post each of the senators names and photos who vote against this legislation like the victims of Orlando, Newtown, etc. And publish their constituencies so people around the world know who they are and can write letters to them and their communities demanding change.
3
Breathtakingly reckless, but the fact of the matter is that the Democrats have great material for the next election cycle: their GOP opponents voted to allow suspected terrorists to buy guns.
What more do you need?
What more do you need?
1
The answer to this sort of do-nothing dangerous attitude and refusal to act by the republicans who take their bribes and cues from the foul NRA and gun lobby, is to kick out of congress every republican and any democrats that take even a dime from the gun grubbers and their associates. If they can't vote for adequate laws to make this country safe, vote in those who will.
1
Can we publish who and how they voted those measures in large bold letters and go viral on the social media?
5
Some really interesting info from a relatively recent Gallup poll - see http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx. What it seems to reflect is a national schizophrenia on gun ownership (more in the sense of delusion and irrational thought than opposing points of view in the same mind). For instance 40% think that easy access to guns contributes a great deal to mass shootings but only 19% think that universal background checks would help a great deal although 82% favor them. The question on voting reflects how far out of step congress is vs. national opinion, what with 60% wanting a ban on assault weapons, 82% for more mental health programs, 67% banning armor piercing bullets except for law enforcement, 75% stiffer penalties for folks who help others evade the background check - none of which congress is working on.
4
A simple bullet point description of the 4 bills offered would give the reader a far better basis for constructing a useful opinion regarding who specifically is to blame for this refusal to act.
8
No pun intended, I'm sure...
1
The only thing that will move our House and Senate to sensible gun control policy is when a large their own children or grandchildren fall victim to gun violence. I'm not suggesting it or endorsing it, just remembering the "heroes" who stood up for stem cell research and/or LGBTQ rights only when it affected their immediate families.
3
Shame on them!
3
"No one wants terrorists to be able to buy guns or explosives,” Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, said on the Senate floor on Monday.
Well Senator McConnell, apparently you do.
Well Senator McConnell, apparently you do.
5
Hopefully the GOP has now shot themselves in the foot, and chest and clean head wound. Stick a ford in them I think they are done! (over done)
I just do not understand why Republicans (and one Democrat??????????????) voted against the proposal. The article needs to outline more clearly why our elected officials believe this is not acceptable. Who will it catch that it should not catch??????? Or is it just posture? What harm does this proposed law do to individuals? Could the NY Times disclose the amount of money received by each senator and representative by the NRA or other similar groups. The public has the right to be informed.
5
Ms. Steinhauer's reporting would be more comprehensive if she provided a link to how each senator voted on each of the four bills. Why did she not do so?
4
This statement pretty much summarizes the debacle:
"Partisanship and the power of the gun lobby played a large role in the amendments’ failure. Democrats structured their bills in a way that was almost certain to repel Republicans, while Republicans responded with bills equally distasteful to Democrats."
Forget compromise!
"Partisanship and the power of the gun lobby played a large role in the amendments’ failure. Democrats structured their bills in a way that was almost certain to repel Republicans, while Republicans responded with bills equally distasteful to Democrats."
Forget compromise!
2
Sheer lunacy created by 2nd amendment absolutists who have tin ears and too much influence on this matter, and who resort to irrational logic and scare tactics to promote inaction on the part of leaders who lack courage and conviction. Enough pontificating. Moderate Democrats and Republicans who can think clearly and rationally need to come up with compromises that work, and then be willing to stare down the fringes to advance same.
Here is a thought...
Why don't the people of this country ask their congressional leaders to remove the funding for the security detail that senate and house members enjoy while elected so they can enjoy living in the same fear that their constituents live in from automatic weapons regardless if they are being wielded by a mental patient, a white person, a brown person, a catholic or a muslim...does it really matter who is wielding it???
Let them live life like an average american who has to wait for a police response to shooting situation
Why don't the people of this country ask their congressional leaders to remove the funding for the security detail that senate and house members enjoy while elected so they can enjoy living in the same fear that their constituents live in from automatic weapons regardless if they are being wielded by a mental patient, a white person, a brown person, a catholic or a muslim...does it really matter who is wielding it???
Let them live life like an average american who has to wait for a police response to shooting situation
6
What goes around comes around. The craven cowards at the nra's altar are getting pummeled by their destruction of their beloved party. Their nominee is a gun,already shooting automatically.
3
I've been a registered Republican all of my adult life. I find it absolutely AMAZING that anyone (Rep or Dem) could vote down a bill that would fully prohibit someone on the "watch list" from purchasing a weapon. FURTHERMORE, the Republican seniority had better watch their steps or they may find themselves on the outside, looking in!! Whether you like Trump or not, he has been CHOSEN as the Republican nominee...and its time for folks to get on board and support that. Otherwise, ya'll are just a bunch of hypocrites! I remember early on in the debates, all candidates were asked to take a pledge of support to the Republican party. Everyone was so concerned that Trump wouldn't do it, but he did. Now, many of those same people are reneging on their own commitment. If your word isn't your bond, you are just an empty friggin' suit!!
1
Due process.
Gun control proponents tend to have broader political concerns and will vote for a candidate (see Bernie Sanders) who is leftist on social issues with the exception of guns. NRA wired voters tend to be mono-issue voters who will vote against any candidate targeted by the NRA. The NRA is a hit squad for the gun manufacturing industry and should be prosecuted as a criminal conspiracy under the RICO Act. They foment threats to freedom of expression in the name of the gun. Their leadership is rich in family felons. There is absolutely nothing benign or socially positive about this organization or its outliers.
4
We don't need more useless gun control laws. Since the majority of the mass killings were committed by those left of center, just ban all liberals from owning or possessing any type of firearm and we will never have another mass shotting.
1
Your attitude exemplifies the problem. How do you know what you claim? Last time I checked, we did not have a single-party government, which it appears you prefer. That would be a dictatorship - kinda like Hitler, right? Or perhaps, you prefer anarchy. Or maybe you have a dream of "living in the old west". This, my fellow Texan, is out of sync with modern life. Herein lies the problem - if you do not understand the dimensions of what the deadly outcomes are with military weapons in the hands of people who have mental problems, then you are not facing reality. Regardless of whether they are liberal or conservative, when they espouse rhetoric from extreme belief systems in the realm of delusional belief systems, it is a pretty sure bet that they have a physiological brain issue in the form of an untreated mental illness.
You turn something that is a critical safety problem into something political and this will go on - it will not get solved. Sir, you seem to not have a common sense approach - which, I pray you will reconsider having - looking at associating this situation not with politics, but looking at the actual restrictions of our freedoms that the current lack of controls is causing. I for one, and I know others who feel the same way, am very considerate of whether I will go to open gatherings. This situation is restricting my freedom. Anarchy is not freedom.
No "good guys with guns" have stepped up - that solution proposed by the NRA has produced nothing.
You turn something that is a critical safety problem into something political and this will go on - it will not get solved. Sir, you seem to not have a common sense approach - which, I pray you will reconsider having - looking at associating this situation not with politics, but looking at the actual restrictions of our freedoms that the current lack of controls is causing. I for one, and I know others who feel the same way, am very considerate of whether I will go to open gatherings. This situation is restricting my freedom. Anarchy is not freedom.
No "good guys with guns" have stepped up - that solution proposed by the NRA has produced nothing.
1
Only a pack of lunatics wrapped up in greed, faulty ideology and self-centered narrow-mindedness could be so totally detached from reality and common sense. Shame on all of them who caused this debacle. And of course, the more of these weapons floating around in the US, the higher the risk they get into the hands of the mentally depraved here in Canada, so we have an interest in this, much as we would prefer not to.
2
"Senator Susan Collins, Republican of Maine, has been working on a compromise, disliked by both party leaders, that would bar the sale of guns to terrorism suspects who appear on either the government’s no-fly list or the so-called selectee list of people who receive additional scrutiny at airports." This makes common sense. Something this controversial should not be attached to other legislation.
1
Same old tired power grab by the elites at the expense of everyone else.
Orlando, San Bernadino, Sandy Hook, Charleston & countless others. Rampant gun violence in the US is making the average citizen fearful!
Gun violence has become a Public Health Issue that the GOP refuses to allow the CDC to study!!!
Domestic violence abusers, domestic terrorists, foreign terrorists, gangs, mentally ill folk, and ill trained police, to name a few, have all contributed to increase gun violence to a public heath issue! No one, particularly the GOP, seems to understand there are multiple factors causing each type of gun violence.
Examples include: our lack of affordable and accessible alcohol/drug treatment and mental health services (including medications), income inequality and destruction of a realistic safety net for the poor, racial inequality, gender & sexual orientation/identity inequality, foreign policy, our dependence on fossil fuels, welfare for corporations & the wealthy, a politicized supreme court, and inadequate pre-employment and non-existent psychological testing for law enforcement are just SOME of those factors. These all need to be addressed in conjunction! With common sense gun regulations.
Both parties own some fault. But, greedy obstructionist, uncompromising republicans are the root of the problem! They couldn't even support universal background checks yesterday! If they were interested in doing ANYTHING they could have amended and negotiated that one sensible bill. The GOP isn't SENSIBLE though! Remember that in November!
Gun violence has become a Public Health Issue that the GOP refuses to allow the CDC to study!!!
Domestic violence abusers, domestic terrorists, foreign terrorists, gangs, mentally ill folk, and ill trained police, to name a few, have all contributed to increase gun violence to a public heath issue! No one, particularly the GOP, seems to understand there are multiple factors causing each type of gun violence.
Examples include: our lack of affordable and accessible alcohol/drug treatment and mental health services (including medications), income inequality and destruction of a realistic safety net for the poor, racial inequality, gender & sexual orientation/identity inequality, foreign policy, our dependence on fossil fuels, welfare for corporations & the wealthy, a politicized supreme court, and inadequate pre-employment and non-existent psychological testing for law enforcement are just SOME of those factors. These all need to be addressed in conjunction! With common sense gun regulations.
Both parties own some fault. But, greedy obstructionist, uncompromising republicans are the root of the problem! They couldn't even support universal background checks yesterday! If they were interested in doing ANYTHING they could have amended and negotiated that one sensible bill. The GOP isn't SENSIBLE though! Remember that in November!
1
Good. The last thing we need is more gun control. Especially when none of the proposals would have stop any of the recent shooters. The gun control rhetoric is obviously an attempt to draw attention away from Obama's failed efforts at stopping terrorism. Face no law abiding person has ever been helped by having their guns controlled and no criminal or terrorist has ever been stopped by gun control. It time to stop wasting time with gun control and move to solve the real problems in the world.
1
Not until someone in their immediate circle is caught in the crossfire will the Republicans pressure the NRA to change their attitudes about these murderous weapons.
As long as everyone in their families are fine, it's NO PROBLEM. I don't understand how a group can with conscious, hold on to such grim demands without rotting from the inside out. But it seems they are, behold their chosen candidate.
As long as everyone in their families are fine, it's NO PROBLEM. I don't understand how a group can with conscious, hold on to such grim demands without rotting from the inside out. But it seems they are, behold their chosen candidate.
1
I for one am gratified to see that Senate came to no consensus on so called gun control yesterday. The reality is that a rush to pass legislation in the immediate aftermath of one of these events is a bad idea and is made even worse by this being an election year.
The reality is that the key to addressing these incidents can be found in a careful examination of a number of sociological issues including the lack availably of affordable mental health care as a part of a single payer universal health care system, the availability of education and employment and other socialization issues.
Perhaps the most overlooked aspect of this incident and the prior incident in California is that this appears at least in part to be a form of blowback from our continual involvement as a nation in foreign wars.
Rather than focus on the misuse of the tools used in these incidents we need to look at the root causes that leads individuals to become so disaffected and disoriented in our society that they choose to act out in these very antisocial ways.
The reality is that the key to addressing these incidents can be found in a careful examination of a number of sociological issues including the lack availably of affordable mental health care as a part of a single payer universal health care system, the availability of education and employment and other socialization issues.
Perhaps the most overlooked aspect of this incident and the prior incident in California is that this appears at least in part to be a form of blowback from our continual involvement as a nation in foreign wars.
Rather than focus on the misuse of the tools used in these incidents we need to look at the root causes that leads individuals to become so disaffected and disoriented in our society that they choose to act out in these very antisocial ways.
We should repeal the Second Amendment and start over with new gun laws in this country. It is an archaic law that might have made sense in the 1770s when a colonial power did in fact threaten the country, but that is no longer the case.
Historically, the Constitution provided a way to keep our laws current with changes to the broader society. We have amended the Constitution to abolish slavery, provide voting rights to women and, for better or worse, address alcohol abuse. The 30,000+ annual deaths due to firearms is an urgent social problem that the Second Amendment only makes worse, not better.
The argument that Amendment somehow is sacrosanct is ludicrous. The First Amendment is still a vital foundation for a functioning democracy and creates a framework for a civilized society. The Second Amendment, however, has outlived its usefulness since it was written to address a specific historic moment. Worse, the language has been utterly contorted from protecting a "well-regulated militia" to somehow allowing a vast proliferation of weapons in private (unregulated!) hands.
The Second Amendment now is an impediment to crafting gun laws that meet the realities of the 21st Century. We ought to debate the merits of private gun ownership against the benefits of a gun-free society and decide what kind of country we want. That can only happen when we no longer are handcuffed to a law that no longer serves a worthwhile social purpose.
Historically, the Constitution provided a way to keep our laws current with changes to the broader society. We have amended the Constitution to abolish slavery, provide voting rights to women and, for better or worse, address alcohol abuse. The 30,000+ annual deaths due to firearms is an urgent social problem that the Second Amendment only makes worse, not better.
The argument that Amendment somehow is sacrosanct is ludicrous. The First Amendment is still a vital foundation for a functioning democracy and creates a framework for a civilized society. The Second Amendment, however, has outlived its usefulness since it was written to address a specific historic moment. Worse, the language has been utterly contorted from protecting a "well-regulated militia" to somehow allowing a vast proliferation of weapons in private (unregulated!) hands.
The Second Amendment now is an impediment to crafting gun laws that meet the realities of the 21st Century. We ought to debate the merits of private gun ownership against the benefits of a gun-free society and decide what kind of country we want. That can only happen when we no longer are handcuffed to a law that no longer serves a worthwhile social purpose.
3
A big problem for gun control advocates is the implicit motive they refuse to acknowledge of taking guns away from citizens who feel that they need their guns for personal protection - as a Constitutional right. When commenters here play with logic (claiming, for instance, that the right to own a gun is not a right to buy or sell a gun) the problem politically is clear, as the only way then to first own a gun is through a gun as a gift?
Gun control advocates promoting so-called "common sense" gun regulations (and nothing in that "common sense" of theirs ever means a way to shoot back in self-defense to stop someone trying to shoot you, or stopping a wild beast attack) - tell us who ought to be denied gun ownership. But they never say who they believe ought to have a firearm for personal protection from an armed criminal threat, or wild beast attack? Odd!
Gun control advocates promoting so-called "common sense" gun regulations (and nothing in that "common sense" of theirs ever means a way to shoot back in self-defense to stop someone trying to shoot you, or stopping a wild beast attack) - tell us who ought to be denied gun ownership. But they never say who they believe ought to have a firearm for personal protection from an armed criminal threat, or wild beast attack? Odd!
1
Let's tell it like it is, and rename the NRA. It should be the NARA: The National Assault Rifle Association. That would make them feel better, and me too, because the NRA is an assault on me personally, and on anyone with a lick of sense.
The 2nd Adm gives you the right to own a gun. Which is a valid safe guard. What it does not do is give anyone the right to buy or sell a gun.
3
The constitution gives us private property rights so of course we are allowed to buy and sell guns. Your comment was just plain silly.
2
The vast majority of these posts are against the recent votes of our so-called leadership yet the NRA is immensely powerful and backed by huge numbers. NRA members and gun lovers apparently are not reading the NYT....perhaps too busy at the latest gun show.
4
A majority of NRA members support universal background checks, and may well support other reasonable restrictions. What they fear is that "gun control" supporters will take any concession and run it all the way to the next issue or reason. NRA is just a corporate lobby for manufactureers.
Only one solution to a Congress that votes against the citizens' lives: VOTE AGAINST REPUBLICANS. You don't need money for this but you do need to show up and vote for your own life!
8
The Senate is a joke. A very sick joke. They are putting us all at risk as a result of their inaction. It is disturbing. Creepy, even. Because the Senate is not affected by gerrymandering so we truly get to understand that they beholden to the NRA.
Oh, how I wish we would have a Constitutional Convention and eliminate the body Senate. All those rural states are ruining it for the rest of us. Wyoming has two Senators. CA has two Senators. We were just in Wyoming and the guy carving the meat in a buffet line, was packing heat on his hip, gun in holster. If we hadn't ordered, I would have left. And I'm sure he votes the Republican Senators. But he is not in the majority as polls reflect.
We have gone totally insane. We would rather protect the rights of gun owners that our own citizens (most who don't even own a gun). We would rather protect the rights of that guy on the terrorist watch list than give an inch on common sense reform. It boogles the mind.
Oh, how I wish we would have a Constitutional Convention and eliminate the body Senate. All those rural states are ruining it for the rest of us. Wyoming has two Senators. CA has two Senators. We were just in Wyoming and the guy carving the meat in a buffet line, was packing heat on his hip, gun in holster. If we hadn't ordered, I would have left. And I'm sure he votes the Republican Senators. But he is not in the majority as polls reflect.
We have gone totally insane. We would rather protect the rights of gun owners that our own citizens (most who don't even own a gun). We would rather protect the rights of that guy on the terrorist watch list than give an inch on common sense reform. It boogles the mind.
10
The bias in all these articles is beyond ridiculous. Gun control measures are never popular. And good luck finding a Democratic running for the House in "flyover country" who will support these bills - unless he/she wants to lose the election.
6
This is purely hypothetical: But, I wonder if the outcome on these votes would have been any different if the Senate had voted by secret ballot.
8
That's a very interesting idea, Anthony. Politicians are fearful of alienating their financial backers, but a secret ballot would provide them with "cover." Even if they voted for stricter gun control, they could always deny it.
2
What is sadly missing in the story is a role call list on the votes. The Obama administration is right, the public should be part of this debate. But how can we effectively participate when we have to search the internet, and it's not an easy search, just to see how our respective Senators voted?
In this digital age it is easy to have a link that briefly describes a piece of legislation and lists all the votes. For too long legislative representatives have been able to hide behind the information curtain on the eve of critical votes and then claim that they only heard from the constituents that were rounded up by the gun lobby.
This is true for many pieces of legislation. To have an active and involved citizenry we must have an informed citizenry. Please, lift the cloak of obfuscation from our legislative process so that we can be heard in the crucial days before important votes.
In this digital age it is easy to have a link that briefly describes a piece of legislation and lists all the votes. For too long legislative representatives have been able to hide behind the information curtain on the eve of critical votes and then claim that they only heard from the constituents that were rounded up by the gun lobby.
This is true for many pieces of legislation. To have an active and involved citizenry we must have an informed citizenry. Please, lift the cloak of obfuscation from our legislative process so that we can be heard in the crucial days before important votes.
8
We in Texas don't stand a chance with our senators. Calling or writing them does no good. They ignore people they disagree with and have aides who are outright rude on the telephone to constitutients who complain about their gun votes. And unless something unexpected happens, we don't stand a chance of voting them out. It's a very discouraging situation, and difficult to figure out what to do.
6
"Partisanship and the power of the gun lobby played a large role in the amendments’ failure. Democrats structured their bills in a way that was almost certain to repel Republicans, while...Democrats vowed to hammer Republicans during the campaign this fall."
In other words, democrats didn't want to pass any gun laws at all. They wanted a campaign issue of mock outrage.
In other words, democrats didn't want to pass any gun laws at all. They wanted a campaign issue of mock outrage.
1
The reality of politics is very ugly.
I do not understand why the democrats will not vote for the republican proposals when they know that their proposals do not have the needed 60 votes. The republican measures, inadequate as they may be, are better than nothing.
1
Senator Cornyn' s amendment required that a purchase be banned only if there is "probable cause ". If the FBI has probable cause, they have grounds to arrest that individual, so the only folks who would be prevented from purchasing a weapon under the restrictions his amendment outlines would be terrorists who are either under arrest or on the lam. As Senator Toomey indirectly suggested, the bar is set ineffectively high with Senator Cornyn' s proposal.
My first emotion when hearing that once again federal legislators couldn't get anything accomplished was anger, quickly followed by disgust when learning that the split was along party lines. And that it was intentionally done that way in order to campaign on the failure of said legislation only highlights the cowardly, self-interested, vapid duplicity of the people we send to Our nation's capital in our stead to represent our own interests. When those interests are unambiguously voiced in polls that agree among the different parties as in overwhelming majorities support tighter background checks and alignment between no fly and no buy lists - and these law,Akers are unable or unwilling to craft laws to that effect - then why do we not vote them out of office? After all, it seems that the only thing our representatives truly care about is keeping their job. They will say anything and do anything if it helps them finance their own reelection campaigns. If the ordinary American worker learned of the work schedule and benefits that lawmakers enjoy and matched that up with actual accomplishments or results of their work legislating they would be sickened. I for sure am disgusted by our senators and representatives in Washington D.C.
5
False Equivalence!
Republicans Rejected measures to stop mass killings!
Republicans Rejected measures to stop mass killings!
5
“No one wants terrorists to be able to buy guns or explosives,” Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, said, "except us minions of the NRA!" - Unfortunately the last part of his statement was drowned out by the howling gun-owners.
5
One gets the sneaking suspicion that our Senators are more interested in holding on to their seats in November then they are in doing what must be done to keep assault weapons out of the hands of terrorists.
Does anyone remember John McCain's "Country First" slogan? I don't think Sen. McCain does these days, nor do the rest of the GOP.
Does anyone remember John McCain's "Country First" slogan? I don't think Sen. McCain does these days, nor do the rest of the GOP.
7
"Democrats structured their bills in a way that was almost certain to repel Republicans..."
Meaning it contained any form of gun control.
Meaning it contained any form of gun control.
9
Depressingly expected. We live in a cracked funhouse.
Politicians of all stripes at the state and federal levels who wink and nod at the NRA and its lobbying efforts are to blame. If children's deaths produced no change, nothing will. What have we become?
Politicians of all stripes at the state and federal levels who wink and nod at the NRA and its lobbying efforts are to blame. If children's deaths produced no change, nothing will. What have we become?
4
It is not WE. It is THEM and the way the rigged system keeps them there.
Humans who are unstable need to be kept away from guns, dynamite and whatever else is proven dangerous to the best of our ability.
Perhaps those voting against sensible controls need to be evaluated.
Are their prescriptions available? They certainly lack empathy, either by genetics, chemistry (Prescriptions) or unbelievable greed. Another tip off symptom: Their ability to nauseate anyone who has the empathy gene.
Humans who are unstable need to be kept away from guns, dynamite and whatever else is proven dangerous to the best of our ability.
Perhaps those voting against sensible controls need to be evaluated.
Are their prescriptions available? They certainly lack empathy, either by genetics, chemistry (Prescriptions) or unbelievable greed. Another tip off symptom: Their ability to nauseate anyone who has the empathy gene.
Remember, come November!
7
It is time to change the name of the United States Senate to the Society of Thoughts and Prayers because that is precisely all it has offered to the families of the victims of all recent national tragedies. They have once again covered themselves with cowardice and shame.
It is very sad because it was not too long ago that an individual would be proud to say his son or daughter or other close relative was a US Senator. That tine has passed.
It is very sad because it was not too long ago that an individual would be proud to say his son or daughter or other close relative was a US Senator. That tine has passed.
6
i wish the news media headlines would stop saying 'congress' rejected the gun bills and start saying it was the 'republicans' who rejected the bills. with elections coming up, the specifics matter.
7
Why don't we ask our local police/FBI/DEA/ATF what they think of gun control? They are on the front lines. I really do not care what the NRA thinks nor the delusional people who believe they are part of our militia, are they in the Reserves (true militia) or National Guard?
4
“No one wants terrorists to be able to buy guns or explosives" says McConnell - except Republicans bought and paid for by the weapons industry. I've said it here before, who do Republicans represent? Lying seems to be perfectly acceptable in 21st century America. No one notices anymore.
6
This means that a gun nut could go into the senate or house and slaughter them all. Never mind that the person was unstable. The republicans will do nothing about it.
3
In rejecting even the most common sense gun control -- keeping terrorist suspects from arming themselves -- the Senate takes us one step closer to more massacres, and eventually, much more restrictive laws. The people will not stand for this forever. "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable." -- JFK
8
Get real. An AR15 style gun is not the issue. It is stepping up controls on who can buy a gun. A normal old guy like me who has a gun safety certificate should be able to buy a gun - with proper background check. If a person is not trained to use a gun then no deal. They have to get a certificate of some kind.
Our forefathers and the constitution would be ok with that.
A slide shotgun would kill more people then the AR 15 style. It is just a style or fashion that is lightweight and used a lot in hunting (seasonal field hunting - or rodent shooting). You all ignore shotguns and regular old rifles(.223 and above). They are all dangerous. Change the ownership process for weapons and ignore the gun type. The OWNER is the problem, not the GUN.
T
Our forefathers and the constitution would be ok with that.
A slide shotgun would kill more people then the AR 15 style. It is just a style or fashion that is lightweight and used a lot in hunting (seasonal field hunting - or rodent shooting). You all ignore shotguns and regular old rifles(.223 and above). They are all dangerous. Change the ownership process for weapons and ignore the gun type. The OWNER is the problem, not the GUN.
T
5
I believe the owner WITH the gun is the problem. What is it you need an AR-15 for? Assuming that you shoot as well as you imply, do you have a problem with a small fixed magazine? What kind of a "rodent problem" do you HAVE? Shotguns don't have quick change magazines either. And yes, a gun safety certificate would be a good idea, just like a driver's license is a good idea. Renewals would be good too.
We need serious gun and background check legislation and now. If current Congress members cannot handle this issue, vote all of them out fast. A first year college student could figure out how to word such, and these highly paid legislators should be able to so do. Vote them out!
9
I can recall decades ago when Bush Senior, an honorary NRA life member, resigned from the organization after Wayne LaPierre described AFT agents as "jack-booted thugs." These days, I can't imagine anyone in the current Republican hierarchy even taking offense at the comment.
7
So let me get this straight - there is talk among-st the Republicans including their nominee for president that we should ban from our country or heavily scrutinize anyone of the Muslim faith - with a population of 1.5 billion in the world.
But if it suggested that we prohibit anyone who has been identified as having possible terrorist ties (i.e. "watch list") - prohibit these identified possible terrorists from buying a multi shot assault rifle - these same politicians are concerned we may infringe upon the suspected terrorists rights?
Hmm, you can have an assault rifle but you just better not worship a higher power different than I do?
But if it suggested that we prohibit anyone who has been identified as having possible terrorist ties (i.e. "watch list") - prohibit these identified possible terrorists from buying a multi shot assault rifle - these same politicians are concerned we may infringe upon the suspected terrorists rights?
Hmm, you can have an assault rifle but you just better not worship a higher power different than I do?
4
Nothing will ever happen until all those in Congress and in State elective positions are voted out of office. The insanity, the idiocy, the paranoia will continue unbridled. The serpent will not die until shot in both heads D.C. and the N.R.A..
"Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself." ~ MARK TWAIN
Where is that 'horrified', hand-wringing electorate that wails and screams "bloody murder" after each murder at election time, too busy wringing its hands to vote?
"Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act." ~ DIETRICH BONHOEFFER
Every voter who doesn't vote her/his conscience at election time is complicit in each and every killing.
“A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices.” ~ GEORGE ORWELL
"Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself." ~ MARK TWAIN
Where is that 'horrified', hand-wringing electorate that wails and screams "bloody murder" after each murder at election time, too busy wringing its hands to vote?
"Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act." ~ DIETRICH BONHOEFFER
Every voter who doesn't vote her/his conscience at election time is complicit in each and every killing.
“A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices.” ~ GEORGE ORWELL
4
I'm not a gun owner. I've thought about it but never bought, even when I lived where it was easy to buy one. I may be sorry some day. I was watching a commentator on C-Span the other day say that the idea that guns in the Orlando nightclub would have helped was like a teenage fantasy because there was an off-duty officer there who exchanged fire for him. I don't know what that exchange was like exactly, but it sure seems that but for that officer carrying a gun and others who came shortly after his exchange, many, many more would have died and been injured. Guns are precisely what stopped the murdering. People want to protect themselves and I don't blame anyone who feels that way. Of course there are gun deaths both by murder and by accident, but that doesn't seem to me a reason not to let people protect themselves any more than car deaths are a reason not to have cars or even fast ones (we have figured out how to use automobile's reasonably, but they are still dangerous). I'm all for "reasonable" gun control and really don't even believe anyone can tell what the founders meant, if anything, as far as individual rights, in the 2nd Amendment. But, what is "reasonable" is really complicated and it might take many years, even decades, before we generally feel we have it right and some people will always think it is not reasonable. There are many problems in our society, but I don't think guns are the big one. I think they are a by-product of other ones.
2
If the American people are truly concerned about civilians owning military grade weapons and the people representing them are not, then shouldn't they be voted out? It just seems that the deaths of victims do not cause anything to prevent something similar from happening again and that's pitiful and frustrating. It probably is too simplistic a statement to make, not understanding in full the complexities of American politics and where the NRA comes in but sometimes, asking fundamental questions and demanding simple answers is key.
3
So, while people die, our leaders bow and scrape to the NRA and the gun manufacturers, who are the real terrorists.
4
Fire them! We have the vote, use it!
2
I know that it may be tedious and redundant, but I would like to see a synopsis of each bill alongside the role call vote. Were there any brave republicans? Who are they? Can we pin any hope for the future on them?
3
There is little left to say on this matter. But, you can protect yourself. No, not by stockpiling more weapons, stay away from any gathering of 20 or more people. Especially your own wedding, your parents funerals, and any event involving your kids at their school. Just stay at home and buy as many illegal or legal opiates as you can. You know, i am pretty sure somewhere in the constitution it says opiates are legal.
1
From a staunch republican and gun advocate: SERIOUSLY - we won't bar people on the terrorist watch list from access to fire arms? That makes no sense. None. Nada. Zip. Gutless. Same to you NRA.
3
If the NRA decided it was time for Americans to own .50 caliber military machine guns ( or, for that matter, virtually any type of military grade weapons), they'd get the legislation passed. They'd insert a provision that no elementary school students could not carry one to school and label themselves as "caring".
It's all about "freedom", right?
It's all about "freedom", right?
1
What are the hopes of some kind of bipartisanship when I see repeatedly evidence that liberals not only do not want to listen to conservatives, they do not even want to listen to independents like me who believe in evolution, believe in doing something about global warming and believe in contraception and day after pills.
It is not enough. You have to subscribe to the party line 100% or the liberal Democrats simply turn away and do not listen.
It is not enough. You have to subscribe to the party line 100% or the liberal Democrats simply turn away and do not listen.
1
There's a reason why Congress has a 10% approval rating. So what we really have here is the Senate giving permission to anyone, any whacko, any terrorist who wants to buy a semi-automatic gun, to go buy one.
Why? Because the Senate is afraid that the NRA might say something that will cost them votes when 80% + of Americans want some sort of gun registration and some sort of law preventing anyone who's on a no fly list from buying a gun.
What's amazing is that the Senate thinks it's more important to protect the rights of anyone who's on the no fly list to purchase a weapon than it is to provide some sort of safety net for all of the rest of us. Where's the protection for the rights of the rest of Americans who don't want semi-automatics in the hands of whackos?
Why? Because the Senate is afraid that the NRA might say something that will cost them votes when 80% + of Americans want some sort of gun registration and some sort of law preventing anyone who's on a no fly list from buying a gun.
What's amazing is that the Senate thinks it's more important to protect the rights of anyone who's on the no fly list to purchase a weapon than it is to provide some sort of safety net for all of the rest of us. Where's the protection for the rights of the rest of Americans who don't want semi-automatics in the hands of whackos?
4
It sounds like both parties made the bills as unappealing as possible to the other side. Now that they failed, they will be used as political weapons at election time. I hope our politicians can come together to put reasonable restrictions in place. Start with a ban on assault style weapons. There is no reason for the public to own them.
1
well, perhaps the govt should issue AR15's to everyone to who comes of age at 16...open carry everywhere especially in the cities and in fact, dance hall, theaters and large sporting events can handout temporary handguns as you enter. weapons everywhere - what a glorious scene for the NRA like an old Errol Flynn movie.
2
When no defense to security is available, most people faced with an imminent criminal gun assault, understand the need for personal self-defense. The Heller Supreme Court decision upheld a rational intuition of our individual 2nd Amendment right. It's a right of personal security in defense of life not just for government, not just for its police and not just for its military. And everyday, no matter what arguments are made for stripping that right away from individuals like the patrons of Orlando's Pulse nightclub, the instinct to have a means of stopping a criminal or terrorist wanting to shoot you, always trumps any argument against that instinct.
This is the problem therefore with editorials not discussing who ought to be without armed personal defense when personally attacked by an armed criminal.
And any reader with half a brain instantly notices the elephant size fallacy apparent in such editorials allegedly promoting "common sense gun safety restrictions" aimed at violent criminal shooters. The elephant, then, is who ought to enjoy the protection that the 2nd Amendment recognizes as a God given right of people that government may not infringe. Who ought to not have a firearm for personal self-defense begs the question who ought to have that right. The anti-gun arguments immediately divide its appeal to people by class, race, occupations, and regions without any sense of implicitly doing it.
This is the problem therefore with editorials not discussing who ought to be without armed personal defense when personally attacked by an armed criminal.
And any reader with half a brain instantly notices the elephant size fallacy apparent in such editorials allegedly promoting "common sense gun safety restrictions" aimed at violent criminal shooters. The elephant, then, is who ought to enjoy the protection that the 2nd Amendment recognizes as a God given right of people that government may not infringe. Who ought to not have a firearm for personal self-defense begs the question who ought to have that right. The anti-gun arguments immediately divide its appeal to people by class, race, occupations, and regions without any sense of implicitly doing it.
1
Regulate the AMUNITION!!!
4
Keep singing kumbaya and begging for YOUR rights to be restricted due to the actions of foreign inspired actors. Be careful what you wish for, you might regret the outcome.
Not only do the Republicans and NRA have blood on their hands, so do those who vote for them.
4
Last week after the Orlando shooting, speaker Paul Ryan held a new conference where he repeatedly defended the second amendment rights of gun owners. He also said he'd have to think about how to balance the measure of control versus constitutional rights of gun owners and hence, this issues of gun control cannot be easily resolved.
I was surprised that none of the reporters asked him what he was doing about the constitutional rights of the non-gun owners, that far exceed those who own guns, to live in the country without fear of being killed in cinema houses, in mall parking lots, in clubs, etc.
I was surprised that none of the reporters asked him what he was doing about the constitutional rights of the non-gun owners, that far exceed those who own guns, to live in the country without fear of being killed in cinema houses, in mall parking lots, in clubs, etc.
2
“'No one wants terrorists to be able to buy guns or explosives,” Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, said on the Senate floor on Monday." Well said, senator. Well done?
1
And "our main priority is to make sure Barack Obama is a one term president", Mitch McConnell.
2 for 2 Mitch.
2 for 2 Mitch.
3
I think this summer may be time for a March on Washington, does anyone have ant thoughts?
4
When it comes to guns, the GOP platform should reflect this vote: OK for terrorists to buy guns in USA.
2
This rash of ill-conceived bills has served its purpose for both Democrats and Republicans.
It allowed them to posture in just the right way so that they can go into the elections claiming to have done something. It was a histrionic photo-op worthy of Ted Cruz's self-proclaimed "filibuster".
Anti-gun control types heroically protected their cause, while their opponents made sure that nothing that would cost Senate seats, if passed, got proposed. Hooray!
It allowed them to posture in just the right way so that they can go into the elections claiming to have done something. It was a histrionic photo-op worthy of Ted Cruz's self-proclaimed "filibuster".
Anti-gun control types heroically protected their cause, while their opponents made sure that nothing that would cost Senate seats, if passed, got proposed. Hooray!
1
Thank you, Republicans. I consider myself moderate and just left of center and try to educate myself about major down-ticket races to avoid blind voting across party lines. But between the gutless votes blocking common-sense gun restrictions a WEEK after the worse mass-shooting on US soil, the toddler-like stonewalling of a Supreme Court nominee, and the overall lack of spine in dealing with your abomination of a Presidential nominee, you've saved me a lot of time and mental energy trying to learn about candidates when I vote (which, by the way, will not be in NY but in a competitive state), because there is no question I will be a Democratic party line voter come November.
5
It is inexplicable that Senators would fail to restrict access to weapons by suspected terrorists. If they are acting out of fear of being shot by a deranged gun owner, the problem should be addressed at the corporate level (SwissArms, Remington, etc). But it MUST be addressed.
"It is inexplicable that Senators would fail to restrict access to weapons by suspected terrorists."
And just what makes a "suspected terrorist"? Some useless, parasitic, unelected
bureaucrat putting names on a list to meet their quota? If these people have the power to put names on this list they should also have the responsibility to pay those who where wrongly added to the list.
And just what makes a "suspected terrorist"? Some useless, parasitic, unelected
bureaucrat putting names on a list to meet their quota? If these people have the power to put names on this list they should also have the responsibility to pay those who where wrongly added to the list.
1
I figure the only possible solution at this point is to have a national gun jamboree each year, and hope all the gun wielding lunatics kill each other.
3
I second that.
2
Once again we prove that, in this country, we value the unfettered access to firearms above the safety of our loved ones. Very sad how slowly we evolve in the USA.
2
Democratic and progressive voters skipping mid-term elections are one of the reasons we have a congress that can't accomplish gun control. Another reason is that Republicans have consistently and openly obstructed any meaningful change to the federal gun laws. The NRA membership should also take blame. Members of the NRA should not fund and support an organization that supports gun rights for terrorists.
5
So, if we ban guns, what's to stop the bad guys from switching weapons? 911, The Boston Marathon, and Oklahoma City did not use a single gun, yet caused a lot of lives to be lost. Regulating guns would feel good but not do much good
So the left issues bills that they are sure the opposition could not in good conscious support so they can stock political capital for November.....nice way to exploit the memory of our fallen Americans.
Any inquiry on the failure of the Fed in surveilling this monster?
Any inquiry on the failure of the Fed in surveilling this monster?
Remember in November!
5
The LGBTQ community and their allies are a strong, organized group. We will not forget the slaughter in Orlando because we feel so deeply threatened by it. Similarly, SUV driving, bob wearing, suburban soccer moms have not forgotten the slaying of babies at Sandy Hook.
This vote was a setback. It not defeat. Most of you will move on quickly. Not us. We will be unstoppable. More and more, we will operate with one pulse.
This vote was a setback. It not defeat. Most of you will move on quickly. Not us. We will be unstoppable. More and more, we will operate with one pulse.
4
No guns will be allowed at the Republican National Convention.
At the same time the NRA are forcing more guns to be allowed in schools while fighting to block Gun Free Zones.
I'm at a complete loss for words.
At the same time the NRA are forcing more guns to be allowed in schools while fighting to block Gun Free Zones.
I'm at a complete loss for words.
5
Because the RNC is paying for armed security. If you have armed security, there is no reason for people to enter with guns, correct?
Stop the endless handwringing articles. Name and shame the members of Congress, and the state/districts electing them, who steadfastly serve the NRA mass-murder industry and betray America.
5
A pox upon both their houses.
1
First they take away guns, then the freedom of speech, then the press! Where does it end?
1
To obtain any progress on limiting assault guns the Republicans must be voted out of Congress. For years, they've obstructed progress in the USA. This will continue unless America's voters oust today's crude, backward Republicans out of public office throughout the nation including in states, cities, municipalities.
But the voters are crude and backward . There's no hope really.
2
"Democrats structured their bills in a way that was almost certain to repel Republicans, while Republicans responded with bills equally distasteful to Democrats."
"Republicans said it was too broad. And even Senator Jon Tester of Montana, the chairman of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, voted against it."
I don't want to hear or read this garbage about the Democrats having the high road on this issue again.
"Republicans said it was too broad. And even Senator Jon Tester of Montana, the chairman of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, voted against it."
I don't want to hear or read this garbage about the Democrats having the high road on this issue again.
2
For a kiwi this is incomprehensible. It appears the tribal divisions are so deep as to endanger the basic governance and common decency. The success of Trump is demonstration that post truth politics is alive and well. It almost appears that you're heading towards civil unrest, so toxic are the divisions.
The NRA seems to be a post truth institution intent on denial.
The NRA seems to be a post truth institution intent on denial.
2
Which part of the Second Amendment stipulates that a terrorists' right to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged?
1
I wish every time one of these kinds of bills is thwarted, every newspaper reporting would post the yeas and nays of who voted, and indicate whether or not the senator is up for re-election in the next electoral cycle.
2
Based on the photograph, I would suggest a ban on the sale of assault weapons to anyone who is grossly overweight - it you are not fit to be in the military, you are not fit to carry a military weapon.
And certainly, anyone who thinks they need one of these weapons, should be able to negotiate a military obstacle course in a required time.
If you need the weapon because you have to defend yourself, you should be properly prepared to defend yourself.
And certainly, anyone who thinks they need one of these weapons, should be able to negotiate a military obstacle course in a required time.
If you need the weapon because you have to defend yourself, you should be properly prepared to defend yourself.
3
"I would suggest a ban on the sale of assault weapons to anyone who is grossly overweight -"
And how many cops and other government employees who are issue real assault rifles are also grossly overweight?
And how many cops and other government employees who are issue real assault rifles are also grossly overweight?
2
Other government employees? I don't think that there is anyone who is issued a weapon, on any level of government, who is not a peace officer of some type.
Police departments that allow officers to be grossly overweight are, at best, poorly run. Would you like to be riding in a car with a partner who may not be able to do his/her job when you need them?
Try being grossly overweight in the U. S. Army and see what happens to you. Passing the Army Physical Fitness Test (APFT) is a requirement for of all Active Army, Army National Guard, and Army Reserve soldiers - and testing is required twice a year.
Police departments that allow officers to be grossly overweight are, at best, poorly run. Would you like to be riding in a car with a partner who may not be able to do his/her job when you need them?
Try being grossly overweight in the U. S. Army and see what happens to you. Passing the Army Physical Fitness Test (APFT) is a requirement for of all Active Army, Army National Guard, and Army Reserve soldiers - and testing is required twice a year.
1
This is simply unbelievable. How many people must die due to so many guns around the US?
Looking at this from the outside, I am starting to consider how to avoid US alltogether. I wont send my kids to US for Education - there are as good and more safe alternatives outside US. I wont go on holidays in US - i wont Want to Walk around knowing that a lot of (freak) Americans are armed. And i Will limit business Travel to the US, and just use Technology to participate in meetings.
Fyi: I was ca. 3-4 times per year in US on business or long weekend holidays until now. As Said, this Will change and i Will recommend all peers (well off and people in my business life to do the same).... Sad it has come to this.
Looking at this from the outside, I am starting to consider how to avoid US alltogether. I wont send my kids to US for Education - there are as good and more safe alternatives outside US. I wont go on holidays in US - i wont Want to Walk around knowing that a lot of (freak) Americans are armed. And i Will limit business Travel to the US, and just use Technology to participate in meetings.
Fyi: I was ca. 3-4 times per year in US on business or long weekend holidays until now. As Said, this Will change and i Will recommend all peers (well off and people in my business life to do the same).... Sad it has come to this.
1
Too bad assault rifles and their munitions magazines aren't sold in the kind of graphic packaging that exists for cigarettes. Pictures of the wounds from these killing machines, and descriptions of the victims- men, women and children- murder, accident and suicide statistics clearly visible. Then again, that's why the "bad guys" want them and we keep making it easier to access them, so perhaps not such a good idea after all. One thing is sure, the ratio of innocent civilians killed to bad guys killed with assault weapons is overwhelmingly in favor of the bad guys.: Sandy Hook - 1 shooter dead, 26 victims, Orlando - 1 shooter dead, 49 victims. When will this madness end?
2
The rights of those on the Terrorism Watch List, to purchase any type of gun and unlimited ammunition, shall not be infringed.
What could possibly go wrong?
What could possibly go wrong?
1
It continues to be disheartening that the press and the public accept as a given the ubiquity of the filibuster. All these bills "passed," in the sense that they received majority support in the Senate. Filibusters ought to be seen as the improper end runs around the Constitution that they are.
We need to face facts: THE NRA IS THE GOVERNMENT NOW.
3
Put up the names of those who do not agree with this type of legislation.
Let us start having a black list of these politicians by name and discredit them everywhere. Public scrutiny is their biggest fear. A website that contains a rating of these politicians would be appropriate from now on, just like we have reviews for hotels.
Let us start having a black list of these politicians by name and discredit them everywhere. Public scrutiny is their biggest fear. A website that contains a rating of these politicians would be appropriate from now on, just like we have reviews for hotels.
2
It's really very simple. Submit a short bill with no riders outlawing all assault weapons and ammunition, with the exception of active military personnel on duty. No off duty military, retired military, or civilian will be allowed to keep, sell, buy or import assault weapons, and/or ammunition for same. Make it a federal crime.
I know that hunters feel they must have assault weapons to kill their prey. If they need an assault weapon to do the job, they are not hunters. They are murderers.
I know that hunters feel they must have assault weapons to kill their prey. If they need an assault weapon to do the job, they are not hunters. They are murderers.
6
What if the prey starts shooting back?!
1
Fair is fair! Perhaps we should return to the bows and arrows of old. It does even the field.
"Big bad" Russia does not have the kind of gun violence you in America put up with. You are powerless to deal with your own problems; stop lecturing us at every turn.
Also, I do not understand your lobby system. It sounds like legal corruption, and not very democratic.
Also, I do not understand your lobby system. It sounds like legal corruption, and not very democratic.
4
Newtown didn’t do it, so Orlando won’t. Expect more mass shootings of innocents in schools, churches, clubs, theaters. Congress as constituted won’t change.
1st step---reverse Citizens United. Then get special interest billionaire money out of elections and start public financing and matching public funds to small donations.
Study how most other democracies fund their elections, to free up lawmakers from fundraising, so they can work for citizens. Make corruption illegal, not legal. Don’t keep this dark anymore, but frankly discuss how other nations do it, then challenge lawmakers with it.
Then mandate free media time for candidates to un-tether elections from gun lobbies and other corporations, as is done abroad. This enhances speech, instead of stifling it.
US media makes fortunes from our biggest expense---ad fees for political commercials. If each candidate is allotted the same amount of media platform, the public can focus on their ideas and policies, instead of being snowed by blizzards of manipulative ads aimed at emotions.
Then start reform of congressional redistricting, to be done by objective outside commissions, so that the political parties aren’t allowed to re-draw districts to their advantage.
Then maybe in a generation after reforms in our political financing and voter laws, some change in gun safety can be hoped for.
Meanwhile expect more atrocities, horror, grief, deaths, maimings, and national shame to the world.
1st step---reverse Citizens United. Then get special interest billionaire money out of elections and start public financing and matching public funds to small donations.
Study how most other democracies fund their elections, to free up lawmakers from fundraising, so they can work for citizens. Make corruption illegal, not legal. Don’t keep this dark anymore, but frankly discuss how other nations do it, then challenge lawmakers with it.
Then mandate free media time for candidates to un-tether elections from gun lobbies and other corporations, as is done abroad. This enhances speech, instead of stifling it.
US media makes fortunes from our biggest expense---ad fees for political commercials. If each candidate is allotted the same amount of media platform, the public can focus on their ideas and policies, instead of being snowed by blizzards of manipulative ads aimed at emotions.
Then start reform of congressional redistricting, to be done by objective outside commissions, so that the political parties aren’t allowed to re-draw districts to their advantage.
Then maybe in a generation after reforms in our political financing and voter laws, some change in gun safety can be hoped for.
Meanwhile expect more atrocities, horror, grief, deaths, maimings, and national shame to the world.
4
Unfortunately the Supreme Court has recognized the constitutionality of corruption.
1
I remember quite well super patriot and sunday school teacher McConnell receiving a musket and waving it in the air, in the faces of the Sandy Hook parents, saying 'your grief be damned' the second amendment (as interpreted by me) reigns!
4
How can anyone doubt that our system of government is catastrophically damaged? A majority of Americans supports the idea that suspected or actual terrorists should not be able to buy guns in this country, yet the Senate says they should be able to do so. A majority of Americans want universal background checks for gun purchases, but the Senate says no. A majority of Americans, though not a big majority, probably thinks that an assault weapon ban should be restored to the law. The Senate does not even consider the idea.
We have a Congress run by money-grubbing, ignorant, hard-hearted bigots. Those Republicans, and a few Democrats who join them in their love of blood and bullets, will not be softened even if a madman or a criminal or a zealot takes thousands of innocent lives in a single spree of gunfire.
As for the National Rifle Association, those who join that organization, support it with their dollars, work for it, manage it, or advise it are accessories to mass murder many times over. They will, one hopes, find their conscience one day, though I don't think anyone expects it to happen soon. They may have a better chance of understanding the pain and the devastation their love of carnage produces because, really, the last decade or so shows that no one in this country is safe anymore.
We all live with the specter of spitting weapons of war in our schools, restaurants, theaters, nightclubs, hospitals, and parks. Thank the NRA and the GOP for that "freedom," won't you?
We have a Congress run by money-grubbing, ignorant, hard-hearted bigots. Those Republicans, and a few Democrats who join them in their love of blood and bullets, will not be softened even if a madman or a criminal or a zealot takes thousands of innocent lives in a single spree of gunfire.
As for the National Rifle Association, those who join that organization, support it with their dollars, work for it, manage it, or advise it are accessories to mass murder many times over. They will, one hopes, find their conscience one day, though I don't think anyone expects it to happen soon. They may have a better chance of understanding the pain and the devastation their love of carnage produces because, really, the last decade or so shows that no one in this country is safe anymore.
We all live with the specter of spitting weapons of war in our schools, restaurants, theaters, nightclubs, hospitals, and parks. Thank the NRA and the GOP for that "freedom," won't you?
4
The Times should out these legislators who vote against sensible gun controls by publishing their names and their take from the NRA. Let's remind the public, at regular intervals between now and the election. If they are so committed to the second amendment as they interpret it and so proud of this commitment, they shouldn't mind the attention.
4
It's amazing to believe that on a straight forward and common sense idea that if you are on a no-fly list you should also be on a list that restricts your ability to purchase a firearm, the GOP won't see the logic in that and agree with the rest of their fellow Americans and pass the bill.
5
See NYT, The Upshot, “Compare These Gun Death Rates: The U.S. Is in a Different World."
"This level of violence makes the US an extreme outlier” vs other advanced countries. Article shows gun death stats from various countries---definitely a different planet.
One great difference is how Britain, Australia and other countries reacted after they had their own mass shootings—and they were much fewer than here. Their govts responded and passed strict laws which the public supported. Shootings went down. This is democracy in action—responding to public safety needs realistically.
We have to study how they finance their elections, freeing lawmakers to find solutions to serious national problems.
Our special interest corporate lobbying financing means that that the lawmakers we line up to elect SHARE IN THE PROFITS of gunmakers, as they do in those of the medical industry, big oil, and big banks.
They share in the loot, while they pretend to support ‘free political speech’ ($$$). Think of that after the next inevitable mass shooting happens.
"This level of violence makes the US an extreme outlier” vs other advanced countries. Article shows gun death stats from various countries---definitely a different planet.
One great difference is how Britain, Australia and other countries reacted after they had their own mass shootings—and they were much fewer than here. Their govts responded and passed strict laws which the public supported. Shootings went down. This is democracy in action—responding to public safety needs realistically.
We have to study how they finance their elections, freeing lawmakers to find solutions to serious national problems.
Our special interest corporate lobbying financing means that that the lawmakers we line up to elect SHARE IN THE PROFITS of gunmakers, as they do in those of the medical industry, big oil, and big banks.
They share in the loot, while they pretend to support ‘free political speech’ ($$$). Think of that after the next inevitable mass shooting happens.
5
Sec. Clinton needs to use this republican senate vote in her election campaign.
Speak about the party that allows terrorists to get guns.
Terroirst will know they can't board a plane, but they can buy an automatic rifle.
Speak about the party that allows terrorists to get guns.
Terroirst will know they can't board a plane, but they can buy an automatic rifle.
4
A Very Large Number of Americans wanted these 4 Gun Control measures to pass but the Republican Party Does NOT WORK for "We the People" the Republican Party works for the NRA.
A Very Large Number of Republicans wanted these 4 Gun Control measures to pass but the Republican Party Does NOT WORK for the People who Support the Republican Party, the Republican Party works for the NRA & hence the Gun Manufacturers & is more interested in Their Profits than the Lives of the American People.
A Very Large Number of NRA Members wanted these 4 Gun Control measures to pass but the Republican Party Does NOT WORK for Members of the NRA, the Republican Party works for Terrorists who would want to buy guns to Kill Americans because that would Boost Gun Manufacturers Profits.
Of course it wouldn't have mattered if the Republicans in the Senate had done the Right Thing (and Really When was the last time the Republican Party did something that Benefited the Majority of Americans & hence the Right Thing?) because Lying In Wait to Shoot these 4 Gun Control measures DEAD that a Very Large Majority of Americans wanted were the House Republicans Who DO NOT WORK for the American People but instead Work for the NRA & Gun Manufacturers.
If you watched John Oliver Sunday night he said that it is UP TO US IF we Really Want Gun Control then WE NEED TO BE CALLING Republican Congressional members EVERY DAY & Tell them to Work for We the People, and NOT the NRA, & Vote in Gun Control measures!
A Very Large Number of Republicans wanted these 4 Gun Control measures to pass but the Republican Party Does NOT WORK for the People who Support the Republican Party, the Republican Party works for the NRA & hence the Gun Manufacturers & is more interested in Their Profits than the Lives of the American People.
A Very Large Number of NRA Members wanted these 4 Gun Control measures to pass but the Republican Party Does NOT WORK for Members of the NRA, the Republican Party works for Terrorists who would want to buy guns to Kill Americans because that would Boost Gun Manufacturers Profits.
Of course it wouldn't have mattered if the Republicans in the Senate had done the Right Thing (and Really When was the last time the Republican Party did something that Benefited the Majority of Americans & hence the Right Thing?) because Lying In Wait to Shoot these 4 Gun Control measures DEAD that a Very Large Majority of Americans wanted were the House Republicans Who DO NOT WORK for the American People but instead Work for the NRA & Gun Manufacturers.
If you watched John Oliver Sunday night he said that it is UP TO US IF we Really Want Gun Control then WE NEED TO BE CALLING Republican Congressional members EVERY DAY & Tell them to Work for We the People, and NOT the NRA, & Vote in Gun Control measures!
3
I don't understand the logic of defeating a measure that would expand background checks, such as the one sponsored by Mr. Murphy.
I do understand the risk of not allowing gun sales to suspected terrorists. in other words,suspected is not proven.... however, surely there must be some criteria set that a " suspected terrorist" has to meet before being put on the list. Could not that criteria be dissected and made specific such that there is no gun sale allowed for those on the list that meet the criteria? Of course we don't want to risk a Senator McCarthy type approach of suspicion and accusation, but at the same time, why would you allow someone that is highly suspicious of being a terrorist buy a gun? Step up to the plate Congress and get past your differences and for the sake of the country, do what is right not what the NRA propaganda advocates. The gun violence problem is multifaceted and needs to be approached as such... from more than one direction. Don't argue... whether it a mental health issue or a gun control issue..... IT IS BOTH! If you give gun access to someone who is angry and mentally unstable, the odds are against a good outcome. Let us find solutions where they can be found. Let us not talk to each other but with each other. Let us agree on a common goal, to uphold the right of individuals not to be gunned down. Let us all become more active in our communities in order to increase the health and well being of the individuals in the communities.
I do understand the risk of not allowing gun sales to suspected terrorists. in other words,suspected is not proven.... however, surely there must be some criteria set that a " suspected terrorist" has to meet before being put on the list. Could not that criteria be dissected and made specific such that there is no gun sale allowed for those on the list that meet the criteria? Of course we don't want to risk a Senator McCarthy type approach of suspicion and accusation, but at the same time, why would you allow someone that is highly suspicious of being a terrorist buy a gun? Step up to the plate Congress and get past your differences and for the sake of the country, do what is right not what the NRA propaganda advocates. The gun violence problem is multifaceted and needs to be approached as such... from more than one direction. Don't argue... whether it a mental health issue or a gun control issue..... IT IS BOTH! If you give gun access to someone who is angry and mentally unstable, the odds are against a good outcome. Let us find solutions where they can be found. Let us not talk to each other but with each other. Let us agree on a common goal, to uphold the right of individuals not to be gunned down. Let us all become more active in our communities in order to increase the health and well being of the individuals in the communities.
2
The Supreme Court's latest decline to the challenge on state-enacted gun control, is the real news here. By doing so, the court has nudged gun control where it truly belongs: within state and local jurisdictions. And by doing so, the court is achieving a dual-fold purpose. First, encouraging local jurisdictions to issue measures as they and their communities see fit, comfortable in the knowledge that SCOTUS will not interfere, should their measures be challenged on constitutional rhetoric alone. Second, giving cover to the US Senators, perhaps even encouraging them, to vote safe, maintain status-quo and according to their political (i.e. selfish) instincts. Not on gut and because of public outcry and emotional outrage.
It's really excellent, good news. Fact is, all three branches of government are taking guns out of the national conversation and thrusting it firmly within local communities. The Supreme Court through winks and nods, the President essentially powerless, and the Senate staying safe, maintaining status quo.
So celebrate people, gun control is now mostly in your hands. Two communities, one in Chicago, the other in Connecticut have already shown the way. More are sure to follow, including NY where last reported Mr. Bloomberg was itching to spend $50m. That is serious cause-moolah folks.
At any rate, now is time to celebrate. The gun divide is going local. Bloomberg will soon $50m poorer. Pump fists, squirt water pistols in air. Wooohooo.
It's really excellent, good news. Fact is, all three branches of government are taking guns out of the national conversation and thrusting it firmly within local communities. The Supreme Court through winks and nods, the President essentially powerless, and the Senate staying safe, maintaining status quo.
So celebrate people, gun control is now mostly in your hands. Two communities, one in Chicago, the other in Connecticut have already shown the way. More are sure to follow, including NY where last reported Mr. Bloomberg was itching to spend $50m. That is serious cause-moolah folks.
At any rate, now is time to celebrate. The gun divide is going local. Bloomberg will soon $50m poorer. Pump fists, squirt water pistols in air. Wooohooo.
2
Please please get involved!
Contact your representatives regardless of how they voted to let them know you support legislation to curb gun violence, they keep track of calls/emails and work for you. Vote for representatives all the way down ballot in EVERY election. Contribute to campaigns for representatives that support gun control legislation, you can contribute to reps outside of your area especially in contested races against reps that get $ from NRA. Contact a local organization for gun violence prevention like the Brady Campaign and ask how you can help or donate money to them. Use your talents, skills and/or professional resources, many professional orgs are now coming together and speaking out (like AMA did this week). Talk to people you know and inspire/encourage them to get involved.
http://csgv.org/blog/bullet-counter-points/2016/8-steps-can-take-stop-gu...
Contact your representatives regardless of how they voted to let them know you support legislation to curb gun violence, they keep track of calls/emails and work for you. Vote for representatives all the way down ballot in EVERY election. Contribute to campaigns for representatives that support gun control legislation, you can contribute to reps outside of your area especially in contested races against reps that get $ from NRA. Contact a local organization for gun violence prevention like the Brady Campaign and ask how you can help or donate money to them. Use your talents, skills and/or professional resources, many professional orgs are now coming together and speaking out (like AMA did this week). Talk to people you know and inspire/encourage them to get involved.
http://csgv.org/blog/bullet-counter-points/2016/8-steps-can-take-stop-gu...
4
''Democrats structured their bills in a way that was almost certain to repel Republicans, while Republicans responded with bills equally distasteful to Democrats.''
Which just goes to show us how politics in the age of Oligarchy works (or more accurately does NOT work) when Bills are now pushed and passed on merits other than those that should be the one's used (ie How GOOD and useful are the Bills to the PUBLIC).
I am very angry at both parties and this sentence I just quoted explains why Bernie Sanders was OUR hope for a democratic Government with the people in the first room and not lobbyists. It also explains the 13% approval rating for Congress
Which just goes to show us how politics in the age of Oligarchy works (or more accurately does NOT work) when Bills are now pushed and passed on merits other than those that should be the one's used (ie How GOOD and useful are the Bills to the PUBLIC).
I am very angry at both parties and this sentence I just quoted explains why Bernie Sanders was OUR hope for a democratic Government with the people in the first room and not lobbyists. It also explains the 13% approval rating for Congress
5
How about people just get a new hobby? One that doesn't involve lethal weapons... there's plenty to choose from. It's obvious guns don't make the world a safer place and the second amendment is not an immutable law of physics like gravity, it's irrelevant, out of date and can be easily changed (unlike gravity). So where is the argument again??
1
We've long learned to expect nothing from Republicans in Washington, and we know them to be craven hypocrites of the worst sort.
But the party that claims to protect us while allowing individuals on the terrorist watchlist to buy guns deserves only our contempt.
Remember this in November.
But the party that claims to protect us while allowing individuals on the terrorist watchlist to buy guns deserves only our contempt.
Remember this in November.
1
Anyone looking for proof that the GOP has gone stark raving mad, need look no further than this latest and most flagrant failure to impose even the mildest common-sense controls on gun sales. For shame! Vote them ALL out!
5
Lay blame where it belongs. The Democrats blocked two of the four proposals because they don't agree that something is better than nothing. My concern is our country has a tradition of innocent until proven guilty. The Democrat proposals turn that tradition on its head. They don't offer a timely, due process, path to a law abiding citizen that can be followed to resolution. Without such an appeals process Democrats are willing to allow law abiding citizens' constitutional rights hang in limbo. We cannot allow that to happen.
1
Clearly for Republican voters gun legislation is a low priority and will not influence their vote for any legislator. Like their House of Rep leader Ryan, they will "even" vote for Trump regardless of any misgivings. Apparently loyalty is more important than any facts. The GOP has become a "dumb", "stupid", "irrational", "illogical" Party that has lost respect with everyone - except their overly faithful followers. If Democrats (Hillary & Bernie supporters) come out to vote along with Independentsv there should be no problem defeating DT and many legislators. But, everyone must - must - vote.
2
If the Newtown atrocity didn’t get us sane laws, Orlando wouldn’t. We have to face it--no matter how many die or how often--the America, land of the Free, S-T-U-C-K.
The automatic rationalizations are deeply embedded. After a mass murder of children, people connected to reality push to change insane laws that are pro guns for all everywhere. But lunatic fanatics push for MORE GUNS, with each atrocity. The True Believers start with bizarre assumptions and go from there.
Yes, over 90 pct of citizens and majorities of gun owners/ NRA members disagree with congress and NRA. This proves US democracy is not working, period.
Due to blockages in our political system, citizens’ wishes cannot be translated into law. Princeton’s Martin Gilens and others showed most laws are passed per the wishes of the financial and power elites, ignoring citizen majorities.
Big money in elections makes voting a ritual with little practical results for millions who stand in long lines to do it.
No other democracy turns their elections over to corporations, lobbyists and billionaires, as we do and with our Supreme Court’s blessing.
Our politics are thus contaminated, yet this is defended as some kind of demented ‘free political speech’.
Nations the world over with publicly funded elections have sensible gun laws. Their citizens have a higher chance than ours of living out their lifespan, or at least uncrippled by bullets. Our famed Constitution won't protect us. Let’s face reality.
The automatic rationalizations are deeply embedded. After a mass murder of children, people connected to reality push to change insane laws that are pro guns for all everywhere. But lunatic fanatics push for MORE GUNS, with each atrocity. The True Believers start with bizarre assumptions and go from there.
Yes, over 90 pct of citizens and majorities of gun owners/ NRA members disagree with congress and NRA. This proves US democracy is not working, period.
Due to blockages in our political system, citizens’ wishes cannot be translated into law. Princeton’s Martin Gilens and others showed most laws are passed per the wishes of the financial and power elites, ignoring citizen majorities.
Big money in elections makes voting a ritual with little practical results for millions who stand in long lines to do it.
No other democracy turns their elections over to corporations, lobbyists and billionaires, as we do and with our Supreme Court’s blessing.
Our politics are thus contaminated, yet this is defended as some kind of demented ‘free political speech’.
Nations the world over with publicly funded elections have sensible gun laws. Their citizens have a higher chance than ours of living out their lifespan, or at least uncrippled by bullets. Our famed Constitution won't protect us. Let’s face reality.
2
Blood money talks for the Republicans. Once again.
8
" a bipartisan background check measure failed, even though Democrats controlled the Senate. "
Reporters have to stop this false equivalence. The measures received a majority of votes but "failed to advance" because of a Republican flilibuster. Democrats did not have 60 votes and so, even though they had a majority, they did not "control the Senate"
We will have neither universal background checks nor an assault weapons ban until there are 60 or more Democratic Senators, Democratic control of the House, and a Democratic President.
Until then, the slaughter will continue as Republicans continue to cower in fear of the NRA
Reporters have to stop this false equivalence. The measures received a majority of votes but "failed to advance" because of a Republican flilibuster. Democrats did not have 60 votes and so, even though they had a majority, they did not "control the Senate"
We will have neither universal background checks nor an assault weapons ban until there are 60 or more Democratic Senators, Democratic control of the House, and a Democratic President.
Until then, the slaughter will continue as Republicans continue to cower in fear of the NRA
21
This country is committing suicide. The only way to change thingsis to vote in a whole new Congress.
36
No, keep,the Democrats, get rid of the Republicans
Here's the list Senators bought and sold by the NRA
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/nra-donations/
Here's the list Senators bought and sold by the NRA
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/nra-donations/
12
Hey, thanks for that link. I'll save it so I can really see the numbers. Apparently one of the gun bills, went down 53 to 47. Only six senators (Ayotte, McCain,etc). In MA, we don't have to complain. Which makes it really easy to stay a bit disengaged from pushing candidates.
5
Lynn: "Here's the list Senators bought and sold by the NRA
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/nra-donations/"
Thank you, Lynn, and thanks to WaPo for this handy way to look them up in every state. Let's everybody spread this link so everybody who favors at least an assault weapons ban can see who's to beat when they come up for re-election.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/nra-donations/"
Thank you, Lynn, and thanks to WaPo for this handy way to look them up in every state. Let's everybody spread this link so everybody who favors at least an assault weapons ban can see who's to beat when they come up for re-election.
3
After this latest outrage remember the Republican obfuscation and obstruction on this and other critical issues at the ballot box. Sensible gun controls are in place and work well in all G7 countries except the USA. The status quo is not acceptable.
25
Republican obfuscation? Could the same be said about the dems? They too voted in force to deny two pieces of legislation. Check the facts.
How many more the Orlando like tragedies would it take before the special interests beholden political class realises the life threatening consequences of the permissive gun culture in America?
14
Prof, when the obstructionists are personally affected then we will see change.
Greed is blinding.
Greed is blinding.
3
Why can't you just say "Republicans? are the problem"
1
Yes, the Republicans today are the obstructionist and the problem by themselves.
1
Guns kill people. Orlando, San Bernadino, and Sandy Hook are all testament to this simple truth. Yet some of the politicians in Congress, swept under by their individual political ambitions and coerced by the orders of their party leaders, refuse to acknowledge this fact; that the Senate failed to pass comprehensive gun-control reform today is proof of this.
True, simple enacting stricter gun control will not solve the problem of the distribution of guns in this country, but it is definitely a step in the right direction. If there is to be a future where no Orlando or Sandy Hook or San Bernadino happens ever again, it begins with gun-control reform. I would hope that this happens in the near future.
True, simple enacting stricter gun control will not solve the problem of the distribution of guns in this country, but it is definitely a step in the right direction. If there is to be a future where no Orlando or Sandy Hook or San Bernadino happens ever again, it begins with gun-control reform. I would hope that this happens in the near future.
13
A plague on both their houses. It is extremely dismaying that professional politicians cannot become the people's true representatives and compromise on such an important public safety issue, getting weapons out of the wrong hands and banning assault weapons that no American civilian has any legitimate use for other than mass killings.
14
Ah, a member of the society for the preservation of paper targets which must no longer be shot even if people enjoy developing the skills to do so.
"The latest display of congressional inaction". Really? The Senate took action to further defend our Second Amendment rights. Thank you.
12
No, the second Ammendment says, "A well- regulated militia..."
Republicans are undermining the second Ammendment by ignoring "well-regulated"
Republicans are undermining the second Ammendment by ignoring "well-regulated"
6
Right. It is so hard to get guns in this country. We were all in danger of being left weaponless and helpless before our faithful Senate rode to the rescue.
The second amendment does not specify that access to certain kinds or numbers of guns is unlimited. Sensible gun regulation is not the same as disarming the public.
The USA is certainly exceptional - exceptional at allowing its citizens to get murdered AND allowing them to murder each other. Totally insane!
30
Homicide rate in the United States just hit a 51 year low. Where do you get this idea that gun crimes are out of contro?
It's Karma. What we do to other nations we are doing to ourself. We are addicted to violence. Some us do it, some of us receive it, some of us watch it read it and experience it in reality or vicariously every day, The USA is a threat to human survival. That's the exceptionalist part.
2
What about the bills to strengthen mental health treatment and support? Wait those bills were just here, where did they go??
6
What bills? There isn’t any actual legislation just more talking points.
You’re not understanding the LEAST productive congress in history. They REALLY do nothing. Besides what bills could be passed? We already have NIMH-National Institute of Mental Health.
And perhaps congress would allow the CDC to study gun violence? Excuse me while I laugh out loud.
The Dickey Amendment of 1996.
"Infuriated by CDC-funded research suggesting that having firearms in the home sharply increased the risks of homicide, the NRA goaded Congress in 1996 into stripping the injury center’s funding for gun violence research – $2.6 million. Congress then passed a measure drafted by then-Rep. Jay Dickey (R-Ga.) forbidding the CDC to spend funds “to advocate or promote gun control.” (The NRA initially hoped to eradicate the injury center entirely.)
The Dickey Amendment didn’t technically ban any federally funded gun violence research. The real blow was delivered by a succession of pusillanimous CDC directors, who decided that the safest course bureaucratically was simply to zero out the whole field.”
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-gun-research-fundi...
The CDC examines the cause of epidemics--ebola, measles, polio. Instead of people just makin’ stuff up about what works or doesn’t let’s actually STUDY why 32,000 people die from guns each year! Using real research!
Or John Oliver can explain it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMkGkvVV5Gk
You’re not understanding the LEAST productive congress in history. They REALLY do nothing. Besides what bills could be passed? We already have NIMH-National Institute of Mental Health.
And perhaps congress would allow the CDC to study gun violence? Excuse me while I laugh out loud.
The Dickey Amendment of 1996.
"Infuriated by CDC-funded research suggesting that having firearms in the home sharply increased the risks of homicide, the NRA goaded Congress in 1996 into stripping the injury center’s funding for gun violence research – $2.6 million. Congress then passed a measure drafted by then-Rep. Jay Dickey (R-Ga.) forbidding the CDC to spend funds “to advocate or promote gun control.” (The NRA initially hoped to eradicate the injury center entirely.)
The Dickey Amendment didn’t technically ban any federally funded gun violence research. The real blow was delivered by a succession of pusillanimous CDC directors, who decided that the safest course bureaucratically was simply to zero out the whole field.”
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-gun-research-fundi...
The CDC examines the cause of epidemics--ebola, measles, polio. Instead of people just makin’ stuff up about what works or doesn’t let’s actually STUDY why 32,000 people die from guns each year! Using real research!
Or John Oliver can explain it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMkGkvVV5Gk
2
Maybe Republicans could be persuaded to vote for common sense gun legislation if The Black Panthers re-grouped and paraded down the streets of cities with AR-15's
34
Oh Buttonmolder!
A parade requires a permit. This parade would NEVER occur..ever.
I’m sure you have seen pictures of dozens of men strapped or wearing a long rifle over their shoulders going into stores and fast food places. Now think back..any of them men of color?? No.
In this country my black brothers and sisters get stopped and arrested for DWB (driving while black), WWB(Walking while black), or just being black.
A parade requires a permit. This parade would NEVER occur..ever.
I’m sure you have seen pictures of dozens of men strapped or wearing a long rifle over their shoulders going into stores and fast food places. Now think back..any of them men of color?? No.
In this country my black brothers and sisters get stopped and arrested for DWB (driving while black), WWB(Walking while black), or just being black.
2
Fred Hampton was murdered in his sleep by the Chicago police for standing for the right for black men to have guns. I'm pretty sure Richard Daley was not a Republican
1
They still do madam....where have you been?
1
The Supreme Court could not protect us from unwarranted searches but gun owners are a protected class. That is the very perfect definition of a fascist state.
40
So let me get this straight. On the same day our Supreme Court has decided it's okay for a cop to
--stop me without any suspicion of wrongdoing,
--demand my identification,
--run a check to see if, say, I have a warrant for an outstanding traffic ticket,
--search me, and then
--use anything they might find as a reason to arrest me on the spot...
... our lawmakers have decided we can't afford to inconvenience somebody who's been put on a terror watchlist by making it hard for them to buy a deadly weapon?
I'm scared.
Heather Collins
--stop me without any suspicion of wrongdoing,
--demand my identification,
--run a check to see if, say, I have a warrant for an outstanding traffic ticket,
--search me, and then
--use anything they might find as a reason to arrest me on the spot...
... our lawmakers have decided we can't afford to inconvenience somebody who's been put on a terror watchlist by making it hard for them to buy a deadly weapon?
I'm scared.
Heather Collins
45
Inconvenience?
How about we give the new administration the right to take away your freedom of speech if they don't like what you say....and its a group of unelected zealots that make up that list?
How about we give the new administration the right to take away your freedom of speech if they don't like what you say....and its a group of unelected zealots that make up that list?
"--stop me without any suspicion of wrongdoing," Nooo -that's not what was decided or allowed by the court. Justice Thomas was clear that at most the officer in the case you're referring to was somewhat "negligent" and not engaged in willful illegal search. That's a distinction any competent judge can discern. Keep in mind that the defendant had just exited a drug house under legal surveillance.
Our laws are filled with nuances which often - as in this case - escape the understanding of the common observer; that's why our system needs and uses judges.
Our laws are filled with nuances which often - as in this case - escape the understanding of the common observer; that's why our system needs and uses judges.
Justice Sotomayer was similarly clear in her dissent:
“The court today holds that the discovery of a warrant for an unpaid parking ticket will forgive a police officer’s violation of your Fourth Amendment rights,” she wrote. “Do not be soothed by the opinion’s technical language: This case allows the police to stop you on the street, demand your identification and check it for outstanding traffic warrants — even if you are doing nothing wrong.
“If the officer discovers a warrant for a fine you forgot to pay,” she continued, “courts will now excuse his illegal stop and will admit into evidence anything he happens to find by searching you after arresting you on the warrant.”
The "nuance" of allowing evidence obtained in illegal police stops to be used in court, as long the cop was merely being "negligent", does not escape me, nor does its implication for our rights as a free society.
And the phrase "not engaged in a willful illegal search" is ludicrous.
Heather Collins
“The court today holds that the discovery of a warrant for an unpaid parking ticket will forgive a police officer’s violation of your Fourth Amendment rights,” she wrote. “Do not be soothed by the opinion’s technical language: This case allows the police to stop you on the street, demand your identification and check it for outstanding traffic warrants — even if you are doing nothing wrong.
“If the officer discovers a warrant for a fine you forgot to pay,” she continued, “courts will now excuse his illegal stop and will admit into evidence anything he happens to find by searching you after arresting you on the warrant.”
The "nuance" of allowing evidence obtained in illegal police stops to be used in court, as long the cop was merely being "negligent", does not escape me, nor does its implication for our rights as a free society.
And the phrase "not engaged in a willful illegal search" is ludicrous.
Heather Collins
I appreciate the efforts of Democrats to reduce gun deaths by making it harder for bad guys to get guns. They are on the right side. But it is a lost cause. Americans will simply have to accept the fact that many of us will die at the hands of an angry or mentally ill person with a gun of his choice, one by one, in family groups or in random mass murders. All I ask of my elected officials is that they make no public comment the next time a mass murder happens. If they're not going to do anything about it, shut up.
44
No guns for the no-fly list - that's a no-brainer. However the other bloated watch lists are so contaminated with names that don't belong and that cannot even be removed, that they aren't a good filter.
4
If things are like this, I'll never vote for any Republican.
10
I wrote in the Sandy Hook comments that nothing will change and that this will keep happening. Just hope that it isn't somebody you know next.
10
The Democrats should keep bringing up bills to restrict guns as often as the Republicans have tried to kill the ACA. Keep reminding voters whose side the Republicans are on: the NRA.
25
The Republicans have to have the worst record of not getting things done. Getting rid of Mitch McConnell and John Cornyn will help a lot.
1
Thank God for the NRA or the fed would be trashing our constitution.
I am really surprised that the Senate has not been able to take any decision thanks to Republicans' stubbornness. Putting a tap on gun ownership has reached its zenith. The idea that sale of guns would be barred to terrorism suspects or those who appear on either the government's no fly list or the so called selectee list is very absurd.
The Orlondo shooter or the guy involved in mass shooting in Church attended by Afro Americans or the one who killed patients in hospital that aided abortions, would never fall within the ambit of "terrorists". Those fellows were self radicalized, though reasons vary.
We humans are not programmed to be the same all time. We lose our control any time and act like possessed. Therefore, no straitjacket formula could be applied to all humans and we cannot expect them to be holy always, with their guns in hand. Gun control is necessity of time. Sooner the better.
The Orlondo shooter or the guy involved in mass shooting in Church attended by Afro Americans or the one who killed patients in hospital that aided abortions, would never fall within the ambit of "terrorists". Those fellows were self radicalized, though reasons vary.
We humans are not programmed to be the same all time. We lose our control any time and act like possessed. Therefore, no straitjacket formula could be applied to all humans and we cannot expect them to be holy always, with their guns in hand. Gun control is necessity of time. Sooner the better.
3
The majority in the US Senate DID make a decision.
1
In American politics, money is power. The only way to beat the NRA is to raise enough money to defeat them.
14
And to vote against the NRA's Republican clients, listed here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/nra-donations/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/nra-donations/
5
And as Lynn says, to vote out all the Republicans who support the NRA.
(See her list)
The Democrats need to get back in control.
Everyone needs to vote in November.
(See her list)
The Democrats need to get back in control.
Everyone needs to vote in November.
1
Enough!
The time for half measures is over and the same with nuanced discussion. Sometimes you have to use a sledge hammer to get people's attention. After repeated mass killings our congress refuses to act?!??!
I am calling for recall petitions to be launched against all 100 senators, Democrats and Republicans both. If you can't work together you will go out together. Throw the bums out, throw them all out. If we start over from scratch, perhaps the new people will do the country's will, not the lobbyists.
Regardless, we can't have a more feckless group than we have now. Throw them all out and start over.
The time for half measures is over and the same with nuanced discussion. Sometimes you have to use a sledge hammer to get people's attention. After repeated mass killings our congress refuses to act?!??!
I am calling for recall petitions to be launched against all 100 senators, Democrats and Republicans both. If you can't work together you will go out together. Throw the bums out, throw them all out. If we start over from scratch, perhaps the new people will do the country's will, not the lobbyists.
Regardless, we can't have a more feckless group than we have now. Throw them all out and start over.
24
That was tried in Colorado a few years back. Didn't work.
3
Blaming Ng Democrats only shield Republican obstructionists. If you care about the issue, understand that we need 60 Democrats in the Senate to overcome Republican obstruction.
6
There is no provision in the US Constitution for recalling members of Congress. Time to pass an amendment.
1
Reality check the senate doesnt have problem with free trade agreements that cost millions of jobs like nafta .
6
Once again, our Congress failed to act and more innocent people will die. The will of the majority was ignored, and the NRA won.
There have often been periods in our history when our nation was deeply divided on certain issues. There was not enough of a majority by one party or the other or there was split government. On those issues, there was gridlock till a tide turned and one party or the other gained sufficient numbers to make things happen.
What feels different now is that most Americans agree on particular common sense changes they would like to see made to gun laws, but both Republicans and Democrats play their roles in making sure nothing changes.
The deck is stacked against having Senators and Congressmen who are responsive to ordinary voters instead of special interests, but if we show up in large enough numbers and vote for what we believe is important, progress may be possible.
There have often been periods in our history when our nation was deeply divided on certain issues. There was not enough of a majority by one party or the other or there was split government. On those issues, there was gridlock till a tide turned and one party or the other gained sufficient numbers to make things happen.
What feels different now is that most Americans agree on particular common sense changes they would like to see made to gun laws, but both Republicans and Democrats play their roles in making sure nothing changes.
The deck is stacked against having Senators and Congressmen who are responsive to ordinary voters instead of special interests, but if we show up in large enough numbers and vote for what we believe is important, progress may be possible.
6
Except how to overcome the gerrymandering that protects so many seated?
This is why this former-Republican can never vote for GOP candidates. They're all totally owned by the NRA (among others), which even us gun owners despise. How do any of these fools sleep at night, knowing they're advocating easy access to guns by *terrorists*? It's simply a staggeringly corrupt, fundamentally dishonest political party now.
26
John Dingell (D-MI) would enjoy talking with you about the NRA
I have no idea what is actually in Susan Collins' bill but but it is "disliked by both party leaders" so it must be good.
13
Er, so is Donald Trump...
It is a shame that the anti-gun voters (myself included) are unable to fund an anti-gun lobby who is more effective than the NRA in influencing local elections. The Brady Campaign, et al, are just not cutting it. At some point we have to blame ourselves for not using the system and its means and methods to fight the NRA.
9
It has to do with the anti-gun Lobby being too fragmented. There's too many groups with their own agendas. The pro-gun lobby pretty much falls in step with the NRA and it's goals.
1
It is the difference between grass-roots and astro-turf.
2
This reminds me of the tail end of the Vietnam war when hundreds of people were getting killed every day, and they couldn't even sit down to begin negotiating an end to the conflict because all the government officials were arguing about the shape of the table.
10
Even though I shouldn't be, I'm stunned. For the past 10 years, the Republican Party seems to have done the unthinkable again and again and again. They have repeatedly tossed reason to the wind. Nothing should surprise me at this point, but I'm still stunned.
18
So since the gun laws we currently have aren't enforced, we should pass more gun laws?
4
Shame. To not act after Orlando, San Bernadino, Sandy Hook and the other strategies, we're the laughingstock and pariah of the world.
14
So the rest of the world won't accept our foreign aid now? They won't sell us their stuff?
Why should I care whether we are the "laughing stock of the world"? Please be specific and explain how it affects the average person's life.
Why should I care whether we are the "laughing stock of the world"? Please be specific and explain how it affects the average person's life.
4
Irrelevant. The average person in the U.S. should wonder about whether the person standing next to her is armed and has a grudge and is close to snapping. As to the rest of the world, they seem to get along quite well without household guns other than the occasional hunting rifle, much less military grade weapons. If you travel some and talk to "average persons," you'll quickly find that no one in Norway, Australia or Britain thinks that the massacres that led to their gun prohibitions would have been prevented had someone been carrying a weapon at the time. Same in France, where a terrorist massacre has led to tighter security, not an arms race.
1
We Americans complain tirelessly about how nothing is getting done, but seem to forget that we voted these people in office. So, this must be what we want.
7
We may have voted them into office, but they do not represent the will of the people once arriving in DC.
Instead of "the senate" or "republicans" voted down gun control laws, how about giving specific names of those politicians so we know who NOT to vote for next time in order to finally have actual gun control measures enacted?
15
Here are the NRA clients.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/nra-donations/
Also, any time you want to know who voted for what, you can go to Thomas.gov
But your comment is absolutely right, all stories about important votes should name names
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/nra-donations/
Also, any time you want to know who voted for what, you can go to Thomas.gov
But your comment is absolutely right, all stories about important votes should name names
4
Exactly. Publish the names. Frequently.
I don't know how many times I've written the nytimes in response to yet another mass shooting. Sadly, and not surprisingly, that time has come again. Today though, I can't seem to find the resolve to try and write a clear, concise and thoughtful letter giving reasons of having sensible gun control that I haven't already covered in the past letters. So I'll just say I am just sick of assault-styled weapons being made available to the public....any public. Its that simple. And this notion is not the death of the second amendment. The NRA puppets who would say otherwise must be voted out of office if anything is going to change.
19
Trump plus the Republican arming of terrorists and facilitation of gun violence spells a terrible, but much deserved, smackdown for the Republican Party in November.
The utter disgracefulness of this party invites abject defeat and realignment.
The utter disgracefulness of this party invites abject defeat and realignment.
18
This Congress needs to get their walking papers. They spend enormous amounts of time trying to recall legislative acts that Americans want and need (The Affordable Care Act). Then they refuse to act on important issues such as supreme court nominations and now gun control. They have a lot of nerve after the massacre in Orlando. Some of these "lawmakers" need to go home and find real work because goodness knows they aren't doing any work in Washington, DC.
16
We are told -- as we always are -- that the NRA and the gun lobby played a big role here. The gun lobby spends about $3 million per year in lobbying expenses. Comparatively speaking that's not very much. The abortion rights lobby spends $2 million a year. The Chamber of Commerce spends $1.2 billion. And the American Medical Association spends $340 million. I'm sorry but I don't believe the NRA has so much influence with so little spent. I suspect it is convenient for many legislators to blame the NRA when they vote against gun control for who knows what reason,
4
Head count -- of members and supporters. There are a LOT of voters who agree with the NRA, and care enough about the issue that how politicians vote on it affects whom they'll vote for.
The last 12 months have given us the rise of Trump, and shown the extraordinary disconnect between the Republican elite and the Republican base. Guns are one of the few remaining areas where the elite can proclaim its solidarity with the base. For this reason, Senate Republicans will do nothing to advance even the tiniest of restrictions on guns. With many Congressional seats up for grabs, Republicans will again put party before principle, cling fast to the NRA, and hope that guns will bring the Republican base to the polls in November.
5
There is a basic failure among progressives to understand just how many of their fellow Americans are against gun control - according to a recent Gallup poll 58% of Americans approve of the NRA. You have to be pretty smug and arrogant not to even allow that your fellow citizens have a legitimate point of view or even acknowledge the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Second Amendment. The result is predictable, gun control is the third rail of American politics and has badly hurt the Democratic party.
4
What do people on the terrorism watch list have to do with "a well regulated militia." The Supreme Court has NEVER upheld the limitless claims espoused by the NRA AND ITS MINIONS.
1
The NRA should try asking a cross section of voters how many people think their neighbor should be able to own a weapon that allows him the capability to kill a hundred people in just a couple of minutes. I dare them to conduct that survey and publish the results.
12
There is also a basic failure on the part of the zero-gun-control folks to understand that just as many citizens find it offensive that they feel their desire to be able to purchase a gun without any extra waiting time or background checks takes priority over the lives of other people's children. That is just as arrogant. It is also selfish and simply not nice. So some of us want people to have to have a few extra background checks to try to keep crazy people from owning guns. Why is that burdensome? Why is that wrong? On they other hand, it seems these zero-gun-control people could care less if my children get blown into pieces in school by a crazy person with an assault rifle. My children are worthless and to be sacrificed on the altar of their "gun rights." That's just the "price of freedom" so that your ability to own a gun is "uninfringed." By the way, it is not arrogance to understand that the Supreme Court is not infallible. The Supreme Court justices are only human too. What, they can never be wrong?
7
Shame. Such an inability to discern what is right, even at the cost of a job you may be re-elected to anyway -- or not. Blaming gun control is such a weak thing to say. So now I claim as home these antipodean islands, fiercely proud and seeking to be just, and wonder in disbelief at what has become of the land of my ancestors, 1600's on. Shame.
Nell
New Zealand
Nell
New Zealand
5
I've been reading a lot about guns on social media lately.
I've noticed one thing -- the pool of those supporting guns generally seems small and homogenous-- they're usually middle-aged to old white men. Sadly, I pity them, they can't write well. They think they know about the Constitution... and they misunderstand constantly that the government "is coming for your guns." In fact, they continually misunderstand many things. They also seem to continually forget that most mass shooters are repeatedly sad, ill, or angry white guys.
I have several thoughts on this, 1) congratulations Republican Congressmen -- welcome to your real constituents. These guys. This small, less educated, unhappy group of white men.
It's all very sad. The white men are sad. They are losing power. They are becoming the minority. They must be in the grieving process.
We are coming dudes. We are coming for the senate, and the house, and the executive, and the supreme court. We are done. These ridiculous laws, your no-can-do attitude on guns (so hypocritical compared to the normal "USA!" chant), the woeful existence of prioritizing murderous weapons over peoples' other rights to peace and happiness...
All of it is coming to an end. We are not going away. Do you understand?
I've noticed one thing -- the pool of those supporting guns generally seems small and homogenous-- they're usually middle-aged to old white men. Sadly, I pity them, they can't write well. They think they know about the Constitution... and they misunderstand constantly that the government "is coming for your guns." In fact, they continually misunderstand many things. They also seem to continually forget that most mass shooters are repeatedly sad, ill, or angry white guys.
I have several thoughts on this, 1) congratulations Republican Congressmen -- welcome to your real constituents. These guys. This small, less educated, unhappy group of white men.
It's all very sad. The white men are sad. They are losing power. They are becoming the minority. They must be in the grieving process.
We are coming dudes. We are coming for the senate, and the house, and the executive, and the supreme court. We are done. These ridiculous laws, your no-can-do attitude on guns (so hypocritical compared to the normal "USA!" chant), the woeful existence of prioritizing murderous weapons over peoples' other rights to peace and happiness...
All of it is coming to an end. We are not going away. Do you understand?
20
You certainly dont speak for me: MBA/MS professional and a lifelong NRA member. We vote and donate lots of $$$ to protect our Constitutional rights.
And I know that I don't live in lala land. The world is a tough and dangerous place. Ignoring this fact won't change it.
And I know that I don't live in lala land. The world is a tough and dangerous place. Ignoring this fact won't change it.
5
@DCD
AMEN!
To Ally,
I will simply tell you this I have been a responsible gun owner for over 30 years
I've put a weapon in my hands in that 30 years to defend myself twice, neither time did I have to use it Thankfully
The last "incident" was approx. 26 - 27 years ago.
I'd be perfectly cool with never having to put a weapon in my hands to defend myself ever again, in fact I'd be overjoyed at living my life without ever having to point a weapon at anyone, let alone fire one at a human being.
I'm a Democrat and will most likely vote for Hillary even though she can't seem to admit the 2nd Amendment is an individual right.
I've voted for the Democrat in my district for the last 20 years but no more. My Rep sent me a piece describing how much work the Democrats were doing to pass gun control, that finally was a deal breaker for me.
The Right Wing Nut Job who is going to run for election in my district doesn't have a chance of winning, but he will be getting my vote.
And even though it appears from your post that you're a bigot
I wish you peace!
Cheers,
Java
AMEN!
To Ally,
I will simply tell you this I have been a responsible gun owner for over 30 years
I've put a weapon in my hands in that 30 years to defend myself twice, neither time did I have to use it Thankfully
The last "incident" was approx. 26 - 27 years ago.
I'd be perfectly cool with never having to put a weapon in my hands to defend myself ever again, in fact I'd be overjoyed at living my life without ever having to point a weapon at anyone, let alone fire one at a human being.
I'm a Democrat and will most likely vote for Hillary even though she can't seem to admit the 2nd Amendment is an individual right.
I've voted for the Democrat in my district for the last 20 years but no more. My Rep sent me a piece describing how much work the Democrats were doing to pass gun control, that finally was a deal breaker for me.
The Right Wing Nut Job who is going to run for election in my district doesn't have a chance of winning, but he will be getting my vote.
And even though it appears from your post that you're a bigot
I wish you peace!
Cheers,
Java
2
Its only a tough and dangerous place because of people like you who insist on enabling your paranoia with unlimited "gun" rights. I've managed for my entire life, age 68, to live a good life without not one single gun. I've lived in the boonies with wild animals around all the time, like now, to living in large cities with very diverse and violent populations and have never felt the need to own a gun of any kind. I pity the people like you who have no real concept of what the 2nd amendment is about. Your MBA/MS degree has not helped your understanding of very plain English. Maybe you should have gotten your degree in the English language and learn the importance of commas and other punctuation. Instead you and others cling you imagined right to intimidate everyone around you. Comments like yours just justifies my hate for the "gun".
Why does the NRA always win? Why is Wayne LaPiere able to control most Republican and a few Democratic senators? Those are the questions that almost murdered Gabby Giffords and her husband Mark Kelly; the parents of Sandy Hook murdered school children and their teachers; Orlando murdered victims and their partners, families, and friends; and an awful lot of Americans want answered.
9
Because the NRA protects Constitutional rights, just like the ACLU.
And they are supported by MBA+ successful professionals who donate LOTS of $$$ and vote.
And they are supported by MBA+ successful professionals who donate LOTS of $$$ and vote.
6
Why? It's not rocket science. Follow the payoff's. NRA payoffs? Profits from ever escalating fear-based gun sales. Republican payoffs? Support from NRA plus avoid being primaried and keeping their jobs and getting votes from their base of fearful citizens whose feelings of vulnerability the gun lobby shamelessly exploits by making them believe their government will become tyrannical and confiscate their guns. Payoffs for Democrats? Fewer gun deaths. And if military weapons were legal only for war, reduction in the massive numbers killed by those with untreated psychopathology who go on a rampage, like the Orlando shooter and others. There's only one pure people centered rational motivation here. Sadly, it's lacking power and will continue to until Republicans put people first and until those filled with fears of conspiracy wake up to the truth that they are being used by the NRA to purchase more and more guns to line the gun lobby's already blood stained pockets.
7
Since Republicans frame this debate as being about preserving people's rights under the Constitution, let's turn the tables on them.
The preamble to the Constitution -- that's the part which explains *why* we have a Constitution in the first place -- says:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty…"
So when does my right to domestic tranquility, justice, and the blessings of liberty, to live in freedom of fear from armed citizens, become more important than someone else's right to bear arms? When will the Congress start thinking about everyone else's rights, and not just the minority -- yes, it is a minority -- who want guns?
The preamble to the Constitution -- that's the part which explains *why* we have a Constitution in the first place -- says:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty…"
So when does my right to domestic tranquility, justice, and the blessings of liberty, to live in freedom of fear from armed citizens, become more important than someone else's right to bear arms? When will the Congress start thinking about everyone else's rights, and not just the minority -- yes, it is a minority -- who want guns?
23
The laws have to change state by state.
The laws need to change on many levels.
The personal responsibilty extends to the immediate family of the shooter. We need to adopt to changing insidious nature of the shooter. He is not a lone wolf. Family members, friends, wives are very often aware and complicit. Even gun stores need to held responsible to the community they live in.
If human lives are lost a legal precedent needs to be set that there is a price to be paid to those who were complicit with the acts that led to the murders.
If a family member or friend is aware society has to hold them accountable.
The State owes its constituents a level of accountability and the price must be laid out in unambiguous law or precedent. The San Bernardino shooter's father, the friend who bought the guns should be libel.
In Israel the family home the neighborhood is at risk. The Court system needs to identify that the wronged need to be protected and avenged.
The laws need to change on many levels.
The personal responsibilty extends to the immediate family of the shooter. We need to adopt to changing insidious nature of the shooter. He is not a lone wolf. Family members, friends, wives are very often aware and complicit. Even gun stores need to held responsible to the community they live in.
If human lives are lost a legal precedent needs to be set that there is a price to be paid to those who were complicit with the acts that led to the murders.
If a family member or friend is aware society has to hold them accountable.
The State owes its constituents a level of accountability and the price must be laid out in unambiguous law or precedent. The San Bernardino shooter's father, the friend who bought the guns should be libel.
In Israel the family home the neighborhood is at risk. The Court system needs to identify that the wronged need to be protected and avenged.
5
Go onto YouTube and watch one gun enthusiast after another demonstrate how fast they can fire off a hundred rounds with their AR15. See them show off their super sized clips and rapid reload rigs. Hear them brag about the weapon being an easy handling, balanced design. Not much recoil to throw your aim off between rounds and distract you from the kill. Then turn on the news and watch NRA supporters insult our intelligence. They'll go on and on about how the military styling is fooling us all. "It's just an aggressive looking rifle" they say. "The uninformed public keeps confusing it with a machine gun. It's not fully automatic." Now ask survivors of Pulse what they think. They watched in horror as just one man killed and wound a hundred in moments. He did this all in a club with an armed cop on duty. With the ability to fire as rapidly as you can pull the trigger, the AR-15 is plenty automatic enough. This is far too much power to allow any one person to hold over a hundred citizens. What about their constitutional rights? Why do gun hobbyists get to posses that much unrestricted power over their neighbors? We have enabled an ever escalating arms race within our own border. The capabilities of modern firearms sold to civilians must be reigned in.
21
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
I don't understand it, can people not read English and see what the ORIGINAL INTENT was? It was to support a militia as substitute for a standing army. Justice Scalia, the original originalist found that inconvenient to his political goals and ignored the first half of the amendment completely in DC v. Heller. Even the NRA avoids the pesky militia qualification. There is a marble monument to the 2nd amendment in the lobby of their office building (so I'm told, I wouldn't set foot there) which reads, "The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed". Keep dreaming Wayne.
81% of Americans support wide ranging, stricter controls on guns. 16% support only stricter background checks. Only 6% support no controls whatsoever. Has congress grown so arrogant that they can easily ignore those numbers? Can we get 3-5 million people to march on Washington to demand that our voices be heard?
Rise up and show the NRA and congress for what they are ! Cowardly, corrupt, anti-American, anti-life organizations. Instead of negotiating reasonable gun controls now, by the time this is all said and done, the American people will be so angry they will abolish the 2nd amendment completely.
I don't understand it, can people not read English and see what the ORIGINAL INTENT was? It was to support a militia as substitute for a standing army. Justice Scalia, the original originalist found that inconvenient to his political goals and ignored the first half of the amendment completely in DC v. Heller. Even the NRA avoids the pesky militia qualification. There is a marble monument to the 2nd amendment in the lobby of their office building (so I'm told, I wouldn't set foot there) which reads, "The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed". Keep dreaming Wayne.
81% of Americans support wide ranging, stricter controls on guns. 16% support only stricter background checks. Only 6% support no controls whatsoever. Has congress grown so arrogant that they can easily ignore those numbers? Can we get 3-5 million people to march on Washington to demand that our voices be heard?
Rise up and show the NRA and congress for what they are ! Cowardly, corrupt, anti-American, anti-life organizations. Instead of negotiating reasonable gun controls now, by the time this is all said and done, the American people will be so angry they will abolish the 2nd amendment completely.
18
So guns are completely unregulated?
1
Edward, do you not think when the 2nd amendment was written that it wasn't discussed and revised several time before it was ratified? So instead of claiming your interpretation is correct why don't you and other misinformed liberals research it? I mean really research it... as much of it is a matter of record... and see what these discussions included.
You may even find records where in one of these pre-ratification discussions one of the co-authors of the second amendment was directly and pointedly asked "who is the militia"? You will be surprised at what he said, because it wasn't as you claimed. He defined the militia as being "all the people". It was with that understanding the 2nd amendment was ratified. It's a matter of recorded history.
You may even find records where in one of these pre-ratification discussions one of the co-authors of the second amendment was directly and pointedly asked "who is the militia"? You will be surprised at what he said, because it wasn't as you claimed. He defined the militia as being "all the people". It was with that understanding the 2nd amendment was ratified. It's a matter of recorded history.
We're going to have to find a way to punch the NRA in its financial gut to get anywhere. We need to peacefully show huge overwhelming support with a grand march or boycott.
2
Legislative proposals have had almost zero impact in the campaign to regulate guns. Perhaps a different approach is called for.
In an effort to encourage more sensible gun regulation, I propose the following legislation: “That henceforth, restrictions on gun owning, carrying and usage shall be no more restrictive in the galleries and chambers of all legislative and judicial proceedings than are the least restrictive regulations with respect to guns prevailing elsewhere in said jurisdictions.”
Just possibly, gun control legislation might benefit from deeper, more personal, reflection on the part of our judges and legislators.
In an effort to encourage more sensible gun regulation, I propose the following legislation: “That henceforth, restrictions on gun owning, carrying and usage shall be no more restrictive in the galleries and chambers of all legislative and judicial proceedings than are the least restrictive regulations with respect to guns prevailing elsewhere in said jurisdictions.”
Just possibly, gun control legislation might benefit from deeper, more personal, reflection on the part of our judges and legislators.
8
Apparently in this country where we profess to love freedom so much we are willing to legislate that people on terrorist watch lists may not use an airplane ticket they bought with their own money, but they may purchase assault rifles. I wonder if people would feel the same way if on September 11, 2001 Al Qaeda operatives had killed as many people on US soil using only assault rifles instead of airplanes.
4
I think they would.
4
How many times does Congress have to prove that it doesn't represent voters?
A recent poll of American voters showed that 89% wanted the Senate to prohibit sales of military assault weapons to people on the terrorist watch list. It couldn't have been more clear what the vast majority of Americans wanted. Yet, only 47% of Senators voted for such a bill, so it was defeated. All Republican Senators except Kirk and Ayotte opposed the bill. Apparently, those Senators felt more loyalty to the gun manufacturers than to Americans. Our only recourse to Senators' refusal to represent us is to vote them out of office. November can't come soon enough.
A recent poll of American voters showed that 89% wanted the Senate to prohibit sales of military assault weapons to people on the terrorist watch list. It couldn't have been more clear what the vast majority of Americans wanted. Yet, only 47% of Senators voted for such a bill, so it was defeated. All Republican Senators except Kirk and Ayotte opposed the bill. Apparently, those Senators felt more loyalty to the gun manufacturers than to Americans. Our only recourse to Senators' refusal to represent us is to vote them out of office. November can't come soon enough.
8
That poll was way, way off and didnt speak for anyone in the Southern 10 states. What "arms" is my choice. About 4 million AR sporting rifles are owned by us normal people. It aptly named "America's Rifle." and it aint military or full auto.
1
To DCD:
That poll was nationwide, conducted by CNN and had a margin of error of 3%. You can find that poll and about 50 other polls using the attached link. You will see in every poll, representative of the full U.S. population, that the majority of Americans want stricter gun controls.
http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm
The Senate voted down 4 bills yesterday. The most restrictive one was by Sen. Feinstein. It called for reinstating the 1994 ban on military assault weapons, not sporting rifles. Only assault rifles with military features (All semiautomatic rifles that can accept a detachable magazine and have at least one military feature: pistol grip; forward grip; folding, telescoping, or detachable stock; grenade launcher or rocket launcher; barrel shroud; or threaded barrel) would have been banned. The bill would not have banned semiautomatic sporting rifles. So, would you support that?
That poll was nationwide, conducted by CNN and had a margin of error of 3%. You can find that poll and about 50 other polls using the attached link. You will see in every poll, representative of the full U.S. population, that the majority of Americans want stricter gun controls.
http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm
The Senate voted down 4 bills yesterday. The most restrictive one was by Sen. Feinstein. It called for reinstating the 1994 ban on military assault weapons, not sporting rifles. Only assault rifles with military features (All semiautomatic rifles that can accept a detachable magazine and have at least one military feature: pistol grip; forward grip; folding, telescoping, or detachable stock; grenade launcher or rocket launcher; barrel shroud; or threaded barrel) would have been banned. The bill would not have banned semiautomatic sporting rifles. So, would you support that?
I beg to differ, who ever said all these people are normal? It's NRA and Republican fear mongering for votes that fuels the purchase of these "arms". I've heard the rants of these so called patriots who are armed to the teeth, that's not normal
..., the United States, sadly, isn't that united anymore; the country increasingly appears to governed by factions of strangers with little or no respect for one another. "At the bottom of enmity between strangers lies indifference." (Soren Kierkegaard)
7
This article should list the names of EVERY Senator, along with his/her vote on each of the 4 measures.
Voters should know, so we can hold accountable those Senators who today deliberately ignored the will of the majority of Americans.
Voters should know, so we can hold accountable those Senators who today deliberately ignored the will of the majority of Americans.
16
Is it too much work to navigate the Library of Congress site where roll call votes have consistently been posted for quite a few years?
2
You expect an American to work?
Welcome to the real world.
Welcome to the real world.
The "no" voters understand the issue. I appauld them for standing tall for America.
1
These cowards are more afraid of the NRA and it's effect on their re-elections than a terrorist or crazy with an assault rifle. I wonder how they would vote if it was a family member shot because of the easy availability of a weapon of mass destruction.
8
Did anyone take note of the fact that SCOTUS handed the gun lobby quite a significant setback today, in confirming a ruling that allows New York and Connecticut latitude in regulating certain types of weapons? For those of us invested in regulating certain types of guns, this is why we need Hillary in the White House. SCOTUS appointments matter.
17
I noticed that Freedom died today in NY and Connecticut
I noticed that Justice Breyer, a traditionally liberal vote on the Court today voted with the Conservatives to essentially destroy the 4th Amendment.
He should be ashamed of himself for that vote - he isn't but he should be.
I took note that Justice Sotomayor stood for Freedom today along with Justice Ginsburg (the Notorious RBG - thank you Bubbe!) and Justice Kagan on the 4th Amendment case.
Now if I could just get those three wonderful Justices to start to believe in the 2nd Amendment!
I noticed that Justice Breyer, a traditionally liberal vote on the Court today voted with the Conservatives to essentially destroy the 4th Amendment.
He should be ashamed of himself for that vote - he isn't but he should be.
I took note that Justice Sotomayor stood for Freedom today along with Justice Ginsburg (the Notorious RBG - thank you Bubbe!) and Justice Kagan on the 4th Amendment case.
Now if I could just get those three wonderful Justices to start to believe in the 2nd Amendment!
These refusals to protect the American public from social violence like the civilized western European nations have protected their publics including Japan, Australia and New Zealand is more than cowardice, it cynical and calculated. Our great leaders have chosen, both Dems and Repubs, to destabilize American society by flooding it with weapons, just as they've done in what used to be called "third world countries", to divide and conquer those nations and now its our turn American People. Not only that, we've become the world's greatest jailer at the same time, worse than China and Russia combined. We jail more people than any country in the world and have the highest violent crime rate of all the so-called Western Democracies. Darn, now that's something to be proud of America, isn't it?
Our Congress, Courts including the SCOTUS, and Chief Executives regardless of their party affiliation are in contempt of the American People. Isn't it time we approach World Organizations for help to deal with our internal violence problem as our leaders are not helping us out at all on the societal violence thing are they? Something stinks.
What happened in Florida was grotesque, the media cashing in on the atrocity by splashing the whole sorry spectacle all over the news 24/7 was just as sickening, kids can be nowhere near a TV in today's America. And our great elected officials do nothing and keep stirring the pot. Where are you Obama and the Justice Department when America needs you?
Our Congress, Courts including the SCOTUS, and Chief Executives regardless of their party affiliation are in contempt of the American People. Isn't it time we approach World Organizations for help to deal with our internal violence problem as our leaders are not helping us out at all on the societal violence thing are they? Something stinks.
What happened in Florida was grotesque, the media cashing in on the atrocity by splashing the whole sorry spectacle all over the news 24/7 was just as sickening, kids can be nowhere near a TV in today's America. And our great elected officials do nothing and keep stirring the pot. Where are you Obama and the Justice Department when America needs you?
7
The FBI publishes all sorts of data on gun violence. Take a few minutes and check it out. I'll give you a preview. It is not evenly distributed throughout the country. As a matter of fact, if you eliminate a few cities from the conversation, we rival many of the countries you mentioned in terms of gun violence. Start with Chicago.
5
Didn't we try prohibition once already and decide that it doesn't work? It hasn't worked for alcohol or drugs.
5
True, but there are actually regulations on alcohol. In fact, I live in a state where you still can't buy alcohol before noon on Sundays. It is also illegal to be drunk and drive a car. You can't purchase alcohol before you are 21. No one is saying people can't and shouldn't own guns, but I think most people would agree that there are certainly some people who should not own guns because they are a threat to our society.
3
I haven't heard anyone suggest prohibition.
5
That is NRA propaganda! Nobody needs a weapon of war! NOBODY !
2
I know how to get the Republican senators to vote for gun control. Firearms are currently banned at next month's Republican National Convention. Propose a law that will turn it into an "open carry" zone. I bet they will vote against that one!
14
I'd rather we just ban guns for everyone rather than govern with "lists".
5
Congress should be ashamed of themselves.
14
Republicans=every gun is precious.
8
The Senate voted to aid and abet terrorists who want to buy weapons to kill innocents. Why do they want to protect the rights of terrorists?
15
The Second Amendment of the US Constitution specially states that the right to bear arms must be "well regulated". When will congress stop taking money and orders from the NRA and start doing what voters elected them to do: uphold the constitution? The lives of millions of Americans are at stake and congress continues to do nothing to stop the slaughter of 30,000 Americans every year. A slaughter that occurs in no other developed country....why? Because every other intelligent society has laws to ensure gun safety
17
There were fewer than 12,000 murders in the United States in 2014. Fewer of those involved rifles of any kind than involved *hands and feet*, let alone knives. "Assault weapons" have practically no appearance in crime for obvious reasons -- they're not cheap enough for low-income thugs, they're far too large to readily conceal.
And, for your information, there are much *fewer* homicides than there were during the good old days of President Clinton. There were over 21,000 such cases in 1995, for instance.
And, for your information, there are much *fewer* homicides than there were during the good old days of President Clinton. There were over 21,000 such cases in 1995, for instance.
2
A well-regulated militia means that all of your neighbors are armed and ready to put down a crazy shooter who creates a serious danger to society.
No it does not, that is a qualifier and has no bearing on the rest of the sentence. Everything before "the right to bear arms" can be safely ignored when it comes to interpreting the law. It does not say "the right to bear arms in a well regulated manner," it says "the right to bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED."
US Congress: Profiles in Courage
4
For shame. I am filled with a hopeless rage.
12
What does Congress even do anymore? They're the biggest joke, and we just sit back and let it happen. Voting every two years only counts if the people are voting. The monkeys are running the circus, people.
13
technically nothing. The bureaucracy handles the day-to-day functioning of (i.e. they completely control) the United States Federal government.
1
I’d like to see a law requiring all members of the Congress to attend at least one funeral in mass shootings in which there are five or more victims. No Second Amendment issues here. Just human decency and the moral standing to look surviving loved ones in the eye.
13
Today, I am ashamed to say I'm an American.
11
Based on where you live, i can understand that.
3
The death toll in Orlando is just a typical weekend in Chicago, a city with strict gun control and Obama's hometown. Illegal handguns kill many more people than assault rifles. Yet what did Democrats do? They ended stop and frisk. And the bodies are piling up. So who are the real obstructionists?
6
Do you have data showing that stop and frisk reduced gun violence or that the roll back of same increased it? While I see the issue in Chicago, I also see an issue with military assault weapons and mass killings. Both are bad.
2
Islamic terrorists are the problem...not the Constitutional Rights of law abiding Americans.
6
Yup. Islamic terrorists like Adam Lanza.
8
How many people need to be killed in a mass shooting before the Republicans take some action regarding military-style assault weapons and background checks? 27 wasn't enough at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut. And that included 20 children. Now 49 isn't enough in Orlando. Florida. 75 maybe? Or an even 100?
6
If the mayor's son gets hit at an intersection then they install a stop light.
4
If the senseless murder of twenty babies and their teachers won't do it, no murder will do it. These people have hearts of stone and love their guns much more than their fellow Americans.
11
In the absence of control of our borders, any gun control measures will be ineffective. Even worse, gun control legislation causes people to think we are doing something. Years later they finally realize that the bad guys can always get contraband.
3
Congress does not care about people and their children. All they care about is staying in power and willing to sell their soul to anyone with big money. We the people matter NOT. Our views matter not. Our lives matter not. Until we get the money out of politics, we matter not.
18
Congressmen must get 18,000 dollars a day. That's their main job and the money comes from people who don't want to share but want more and more and more and ....
6
Remember those sickening photos of men, women and children grinning, posing before charred bodies of lynched victims. Inconceivable to us now. Well that's the way we'll appear to future Americans and that's the way we appear to the advanced world now. Inconceivable.
17
Some reflections on today:
1 - Today, the Supreme Court ruled that bans on assault weapons are Constitutional and not protected by the second amendment. So - those who argue otherwise are wrong - or liars.
2 - Today, the Republican Senate not only voted down these more than reasonable restrictions, the voted against funding the background checks now in place.
3 - The votes would be different if their children or even one of them, were victims. That's the sad lesson of the shameful Ronald Reagan who opposed gun control until someone shot him.
1 - Today, the Supreme Court ruled that bans on assault weapons are Constitutional and not protected by the second amendment. So - those who argue otherwise are wrong - or liars.
2 - Today, the Republican Senate not only voted down these more than reasonable restrictions, the voted against funding the background checks now in place.
3 - The votes would be different if their children or even one of them, were victims. That's the sad lesson of the shameful Ronald Reagan who opposed gun control until someone shot him.
9
Nah, the SCOTUS didn't say that. They said they a dude short.
2
SCOTUS actually didn't rule at all, since they didn't take the case.
3
From the Times - "The Supreme Court refused on Monday to hear a Second Amendment challenge to a Connecticut law banning many semiautomatic rifles." Thus, in effect, finding the law Constitutional.
1
Absolutely Pathetic.
How Congress stand by and do nothing, mass shooting after mass shooting after mass shooting, is absolutely pathetic. The "guns for all" interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is a massive fraud on the American people.
Did anyone notice how quickly the news cycle has died down after this latest mass shooting, which should have been one of the most shocking of all?
We have grown comfortably numb, and Congress has shown that it will do nothing ever, no matter the toll on this country.
Absolutely Pathetic.
How Congress stand by and do nothing, mass shooting after mass shooting after mass shooting, is absolutely pathetic. The "guns for all" interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is a massive fraud on the American people.
Did anyone notice how quickly the news cycle has died down after this latest mass shooting, which should have been one of the most shocking of all?
We have grown comfortably numb, and Congress has shown that it will do nothing ever, no matter the toll on this country.
Absolutely Pathetic.
8
OK. That's it. Let's set up some kind of a way for all the Bernie supporters and others to donate $27.00 to a fund that would support opponents to the campaigns of those politicians who voted down these measures. The Times could do it's part by actually listing the names of senators who voted against the measure. Together, Americans are MUCH stronger than the NRA. Fight fire with fire. Raise the money from ordinary citizens and use it to fight the NRA supported hacks.
25
Interesting. I recall Sec. Clinton repeatedly lambasting Sen. Sanders as a tool of the NRA for opposing frivolous litigation against the manufacturers of firearms when their fully-functioning products are consciously misused.
And Sanders was right to oppose such litigation. Should carmakers be sued because some people choose to drink and drive? Should pharmaceutical companies be sued by families of the deceased when their products are mis-used by family members who commit suicide? A more interesting aspect of this might be even spending money to support even Republican candidates who are pro-gun. If they're Republicans from rural states, the pro-gun vote won't change, but individual lawmakers wold realize that if they vote down common sense gun laws, their seat is up for grabs. They will think twice if their political self-interest is on the line.
1
Shame on them
8
Since 'a well regulated militia' is is rational for gun ownership, gun owners are members of the militia. Are gun owners, being that militia, not required to show up for training? Who has the authority to muster the militia?
10
Who has the authority? State and Local governments have the power to muster militiamen into an official posse, under the command and control of that Government.
Ans so does the Federal Government.
Ans so does the Federal Government.
2
What if they did and nobody came? Or what if they did and the only people who showed up were Duck Dynasty types? What if to become a recognized militia person, people were required to do U.S. Marine Basic training at Parris Island? Challenge those who claim this excuse to put up or shut up.
2
This is what breeds widespread distrust in our government and elected representatives. Making theater and intentionally polarizing arguments to position oneself for re-election when a true opportunity for action based upon a negotiated solution is possible is not acceptable. When does common sense and a sense of responsibility come into play? This is simply depressing.
6
Nah, what creates widespread distrust is when government tries to INFRINGE on our God-given rights.
3
So your God gave you the rights to own a gun!
3
I can vote for those who support gun control - but I also do not allow members of the nra to enter my home.
8
The republicans voted against their own legislation.
7
Unless the Republicans lose seats in both the House and the Senate it will never change. Newtown proved that. With all these mass shootings and knowing that more are on the way, I just don't understand how they can live with themselves.
20
There is no moral justification for the stance that Republicans have taken here, it is nothing but a grotesque form of partisan politics.
8
Because of its stranglehold on Congress, its utter intransigence on gun safety measures, and its aggressive marketing of guns including military type weapons, the NRA is complicit in the thousands of gun deaths each year including the recent massacres. Time for a mega class action law suit against the NRA.
10
Even if the government controlled all of the guns, what would happen is that they would "lose" some every now and then, and the murders would continue. Case in point, the current shooter got called in by the "evil, racist" gun dealer who thought that a man asking about illegal body armor and talking in arabic, and yet the FBI did nothing. Guess they just thought we were overdue for another shooting.
1
The next one, and unfortunately there will be. more massacres, is the fault off those who voted against these very reasonable measures. There really is no time to pause, there needs to be legislative action.
7
Here's a thought experiment: Imagine that, instead of a National Rifle Association, we are dealing with a "National Pornography Association" (NPA).
Like it or not, the courts have held that much pornography is constitutionally protected. And, like it or not, there seems to be a very substantial market for the stuff. Child pornography, however, is not legally protected; it is illegal to make it or even possess it. This "NPA," however, advocates for both protected pornography and unprotected child pornography as exercises of freedom of expression. It suggests that only a teeny tiny fraction of child porn consumers become drooling, foaming-at-the-mouth, real world pedophiles, and that they probably would have done so anyway, child porn or no. As for the lives devastated by having child porn in production in the first place? Well, that's the price of freedom.
How is the Second Amendment jurisprudence of the NRA any different from the First Amendment jurisprudence of a "NPA'? What politician would accept money, support, or direction from a "NPA"? Why, then, from the NRA?
Like it or not, the courts have held that much pornography is constitutionally protected. And, like it or not, there seems to be a very substantial market for the stuff. Child pornography, however, is not legally protected; it is illegal to make it or even possess it. This "NPA," however, advocates for both protected pornography and unprotected child pornography as exercises of freedom of expression. It suggests that only a teeny tiny fraction of child porn consumers become drooling, foaming-at-the-mouth, real world pedophiles, and that they probably would have done so anyway, child porn or no. As for the lives devastated by having child porn in production in the first place? Well, that's the price of freedom.
How is the Second Amendment jurisprudence of the NRA any different from the First Amendment jurisprudence of a "NPA'? What politician would accept money, support, or direction from a "NPA"? Why, then, from the NRA?
12
"“No one wants terrorists to be able to buy guns or explosives,” Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, said on the Senate floor on Monday." Really? Could have fooled me! Is McConnell even remotely aware of the phrase "Actions speak louder than words?"
16
Did anyone expect them to do any differently given their party? If you did, you are delusional.
I know how I will vote at every level in November.
I know how I will vote at every level in November.
16
Why do we pay these peoples' salaries, health care, retirement funds?? They are despicable cowards. I'm developing a hatred for most politicians, our system of government, and definitely despise all Republicans. How can they sleep at night and eat at their fancy Washington restaurants. They all disgust me. I can't look at their faces.
"Yes, and how many deaths will it take 'til he knows, that too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind, the answer is blowin' in the wind."
Bob Dylan
"Yes, and how many deaths will it take 'til he knows, that too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind, the answer is blowin' in the wind."
Bob Dylan
14
The gunman pledges allegiance to ISIS. And the Senate pledges its allegiance to the NRA.
18
Everyday, it just gets more bizarre. People refusing to get any common sense. Who is running the Legislature? NRA, Big Pharma, Big Med, Big Insurance, Big Fill in the Blank Corporate Giants Above the Law... None of them seem to have any sense!
Power goes literally to their heads and disables their thinking mechanics - the parts associated with things like logic and cause-effect relationships.
You take away most public funding for community based mental health programs, education, and refuse to regulate the use of military weapons by private citizens and over time we get this - what we have now. Senseless violence with guns - more than any country in the world. This is freedom? Hello? I'm fearful of going to the mall or a movie at certain times of the week or day.
There is so much wrong it's hard to know where to start.
Seven deadly sins, folks. We've had too long a run of this. Let's elect some competence again.
It's a stretch goal, but it seems a lot of people are waking up and not able to support these cartoon characters anymore.
Let's hope that enough people get some sense and we get these yo-yo's out and some sensible ones in their vacated seats.
Power goes literally to their heads and disables their thinking mechanics - the parts associated with things like logic and cause-effect relationships.
You take away most public funding for community based mental health programs, education, and refuse to regulate the use of military weapons by private citizens and over time we get this - what we have now. Senseless violence with guns - more than any country in the world. This is freedom? Hello? I'm fearful of going to the mall or a movie at certain times of the week or day.
There is so much wrong it's hard to know where to start.
Seven deadly sins, folks. We've had too long a run of this. Let's elect some competence again.
It's a stretch goal, but it seems a lot of people are waking up and not able to support these cartoon characters anymore.
Let's hope that enough people get some sense and we get these yo-yo's out and some sensible ones in their vacated seats.
14
Hallelujah ! There is a rational American in the State of Texas.
It is the Republicans whose negligent policies on common sense gun control are responsible for the mass shootings in Aurora, Tucson (Gabby Gifford), Newtown, San Bernardino, Orlando... It is the Republicans whose negligent policies on common sense gun control have contributed to the growth of homegrown terrorism, regardless of the killers' motivations. Imagine how the families of those slaughtered feel tonight - betrayed by the Republican Congress in Washington. Please - let's do everything we can together to get rid of the Republican stranglehold on Congress and put in place legislators who will establish common sense gun control policies that truly keep us safer. We all vote - let our votes become the change in our country we so desperately need. There is a clear choice. Go for it!
8
It would have been news if the Senate had VOTED FOR gun control measures.
This is just the same old same old.
This is just the same old same old.
5
The Republicans are now going to lose their majority.
7
I sincerely hope so.
Vote them out.
Vote them out.
6
From your lips to God's ears.
8
This is harsh to say but...If you don't get involved, if you don't call your congressperson, senator or governor and demand change, then you can't claim to be an innocent victim when you or a loved one is shot.
6
Maybe you should encourage your loved ones to arm themselves so that they won't become a victim.
1
This is truly the insanity of our times. Every other country that has enacted gun control legislation has successfully bought back guns, decreased crime, and saved countless lives in the process. The fault lies on the shoulders of us as complacent, resigned America citizens.
14
Typical Congressional cowardice.
Why are we even paying their salaries?
Why are we even paying their salaries?
10
That's called tax evasion, and you seem to be agreeing with republicans in this case.
1
Vote out senator toomey. You can work for the NRA in your spare time. Not in our time.
13
This makes sense since it is a clear easy logical next step to go from denying those we do not allow on airplanes to buy guns, to the complete and irreversible Obama/Hillary gun grab. Yup that is one real slippery slope eh?
The NRA has to think more like a modern American corporation. Allow the ban on gun sales to those on the watch list but make sure it does not go into effect for a year allowing a YUUUGE increase in gun sales in the meantime-that is their role isn't it?
The NRA has to think more like a modern American corporation. Allow the ban on gun sales to those on the watch list but make sure it does not go into effect for a year allowing a YUUUGE increase in gun sales in the meantime-that is their role isn't it?
Why is this nation so stupid
We cannot learn
From Europe and Australia
That guns kill people
that's probably not haiku, but does that matter?
We cannot learn
From Europe and Australia
That guns kill people
that's probably not haiku, but does that matter?
9
Was anyone expecting our lobbyist, corporate sponsored, 1% paid fro Congress to do anything different?
100 people shot at once, and again nothing. Not after Columbine, Aurora, Fort Hood, Middletown, Blacksburg (VA Tech), San Bernardino, and the thousands killed every year.
One has to expect something much, much worse before Congress is finally forced to act. Apparently, killing 49 people and injuring over 50 more, was snot enough. Killing children and young adults at school was not enough.
Well, we can rest assured that out "well regulated militia" is on duty to stop mass murder. If so, where were they last early Sunday morning?
100 people shot at once, and again nothing. Not after Columbine, Aurora, Fort Hood, Middletown, Blacksburg (VA Tech), San Bernardino, and the thousands killed every year.
One has to expect something much, much worse before Congress is finally forced to act. Apparently, killing 49 people and injuring over 50 more, was snot enough. Killing children and young adults at school was not enough.
Well, we can rest assured that out "well regulated militia" is on duty to stop mass murder. If so, where were they last early Sunday morning?
8
I'm embarrassed to be an American. When children, our children, are being slaughtered in the one place that should be a safe haven and we stand by and do nothing. I can only say that I'm embarrassed.
15
One more reason to send an electoral message to the GOP in November. VOTE AGAINST ALL REPUBLICANS at every level of government. As long as they win elections, they have no reason to stop the politics of obstruction and the politics of yes sir boss to the NRA.
15
Fine, you think Democrats will fix it? No they won't. The lobbyists, NRA and the filibuster will doom it. The Democrats has a majority in 2009, and it did not work then. Then again, they were dealing with bailing out "too big to fail" and passing a bill they did not read called Obamacare. While funding the war in Afghanistan and Iraq; while looking fro Osama bin Laden. Gun control was far off their radar then and will be off their radar now.
4
Surely in 1800 the village idiot was not allowed to have a gun. Perhaps the same was true for the village ne'er do well. If we're going for constitutional originalism, could we extend practices to emulate original villages?
5
And how does one codify such principles in a way that's enforceable, sufficiently clear as to be defensible in court, reasonably carefully tailored so that it preserves the rights of the mass of the population most of whom will never be involved in any violent crime in any way, and yet broad enough that it is actually meaningful?
The NRA is only powerful because of its money and its campaign contributions. Not its ideas. We need to accept this and beat them at their own game by forming a 501(c) called "Destroy the NRA". When people stop being outraged by Congressional inaction on common sense gun regulation and instead take action by donating money to an entity whose sole mission is to crush the NRA by donating 3x the amount of money to every candidate whose opponent takes NRA money; the amendments voted down today will become the laws of tomorrow. Where art thou Mayor Blumberg; Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, et al with seed money and leadership?
15
I agree. We have got to hit the NRA and the congress members on it's dole in their pocketbooks. There have to be really massive demonstration of people outplaying the NRA at its own game. Is there some way to peacefully boycott business based on unsafe public spaces that will get attention? I'm appalled that the chambers of commerce are not horrified by how much business revenue is being lost where communities are felt unsafe by their citizens.
1
So glad Speaker Ryan wants to take a deep breath and take it slow as the daily carnage of the American People continues. The GOP always claims to be working for the American People or what we want or don't want but they will choose the NRA everytime over the American People's right to life,liberty and happiness.
It almost feels like the twilight zone in what world are the Non-actions by the republicans okay? Allowing the countries infrstructure to fall apart, refusal to create jobs, red states refusing healthcare to the working poor.contribute to income ineqaulity with most of their policies. Refuse to keep americans safe. They are willing to support Donald Trump at the chance of destrying the country for generations. I hope they all are voted out.
It almost feels like the twilight zone in what world are the Non-actions by the republicans okay? Allowing the countries infrstructure to fall apart, refusal to create jobs, red states refusing healthcare to the working poor.contribute to income ineqaulity with most of their policies. Refuse to keep americans safe. They are willing to support Donald Trump at the chance of destrying the country for generations. I hope they all are voted out.
18
The do-nothing GOP lives up to its name, and does nothing. This is why even it's base abandoned them, and for someone as utterly unqualified as Trump.
10
Ah. Of course. Why would people matter when there are corporations to take care of? The vast majority of all Americans, including gun owners, want something done to decrease the mass shooting insanity that goes on in our country. The fact that our politicians refuse to do even the smallest step to that end reveals that they could care less about average citizens. We could live or die. It is all the same to them as long as their corporate and lobby buddies are happy.
11
Using assault weapons for acts like Orlando is TERRORISM pure and simple. Elected Republicans and the NRA are willfully allowing American citizens to be killed on our own soil year after year. It's a disgusting shame, and they need to be held fully accountable for this threat to our national security and failure to act.
17
It's amazing how liberals choose to read and comment on a portion of the facts that serve to support a narrative that is simply just not true. Democrats were on the list of legislatures that rejected gun control measures put forth by Republicans that would have served to prevent those on the terrorist watch list from acquiring guns but they rejected it since it put the control in the hands of a judge as opposed to a politician. Liberals have really fell off the wagon and taken to outright lies and spin. It's really sad - but let's see how it turns out in November after the citizens of this country vote for freedom and peace through strength instead of fear.
6
Please read the legislation. The Republican bill required a level of proof that could only be achieved by having already been convicted. We have bail, not getting a gun until we're sure someone is innocent is harsh, absolutely. Being in jail when you're innocent but cannot prove it is far worse. Being dead - that worse, I think you'll agree.
4
It will take a massacre at a Chamber of Commerce meeting or an ALEC Convention before they come around. I would bet you that based on the fact that the republicans are about to deny trump the nomination it won't be long before some of his hot-headed supporters start getting itchy trigger fingers.
11
How much did this cost the NRA? Check on who made the donations post massacre, it wasn't from the Sandy Hook Foundation.
15
It is no longer news when the Senate fails to do anything - that's the status quo.
Let us know if they actually do accomplish something, anything, in the near future.
Let us know if they actually do accomplish something, anything, in the near future.
6
It is extraordinary the political power and control exerted by the NRA over the American people and in particular the Senate and house representatives of the Republican Party. It is hard to imagine a more powerful lobby group in world politics. Trump even appeared to believe he had to negotiate concessions with the lobby group past week. If that is not the tail wagging the dog I am not sure what is but certainly the NRA seems to have a very firm grip on the GOP
5
Just so I have this straight: the very same Republicans who oppose closure of Guantanamo & support waterboarding and "enhanced interrogation" of terror suspects are worried about depriving them of due process by keeping them from buying assault weapons?
20
The senators who are in the pocket of the NRA should be called on carpet. They have blood on their hands.
9
The GOP has constructed an Orwellian parallel world in which:
- The government is barred from researching the impact of firearms on public health
- Gun-makers are uniquely excluded from product liability laws
- The right to possess military-grade firepower is deemed more important than the rights of those put at risk every day
- The fairly straight-forward purpose of the second amendment is read as creating an unfettered right to weapons
The GOP must be held accountable.
- The government is barred from researching the impact of firearms on public health
- Gun-makers are uniquely excluded from product liability laws
- The right to possess military-grade firepower is deemed more important than the rights of those put at risk every day
- The fairly straight-forward purpose of the second amendment is read as creating an unfettered right to weapons
The GOP must be held accountable.
19
This isn't that difficult folks. Citizens in Democratic states need to start giving money to the opponents of those in other states that voted against the gun legislation. I live in New York, but plan on making donations to their opponents and get rid of Republicans that voted against the legislation in Pennsylvania (Pat Toomey) and in Maine (Susan Collins). Now if we multiply those efforts, we can get somewhere. There is no point in waiting for Congress. We have to change it.
17
I'm with Aron.
7
The ballot box is stronger than the bullet. Time to clean out the spineless GOP.
I'm with HRC.
I'm with HRC.
20
To the Republican Party: Is there not one senator who has the political courage to do the right thing? Your cowardice disgusts me.
24
Pathetic cowards. No wonder congress has a 9% approval rating. They can't even pass common sense gun legislation that could save hundreds, even thousands, of lives and that 90% of the public supports.
18
The very same people who will take benefits away from all because of a few miscreants are quite willing to let miscreants get guns to avoid inconveniencing the rest. The hypocrisy is breathtaking....
13
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.-
2
This is shameful and disappointing, once again, but not surprising. Could we please shift the phrasing to "gun safety" and away from "gun control"? Semantics matter a lot in this issue.
4
Off topic, but same for the semantics of "climate change"
Let's change that to "environmental sustainability "
Let's change that to "environmental sustainability "
1
It is past time to vote the NRA's influence out of DC for good.
I hope Clinton smashes the GOP with its callous indifference to the very life it insists be born.
I hope Clinton smashes the GOP with its callous indifference to the very life it insists be born.
4
what's really sad is that on the average everyday of the year 36 Americans get killed by gun fire. Disasters like the Orlando shooting catch our eye, and our hearts, it is sad that daily the 30 plus killed by gunfire across the country get missed. It's a real massacre if 49 die in one place in one night, It is just as bad for 36 people everyday who just are not all in one place. 36 0r 49 When and where lives are lost does not change the value of a life lost.
That huge number every year, roughly 12 thousand killed, and ignored by the people running this country. I guess we all need to vote more and see if we can get representatives and senators that actually have an interest in the peoples well being. Sad to say but I guess it is our fault and more so if we do not start correcting the issue.
That huge number every year, roughly 12 thousand killed, and ignored by the people running this country. I guess we all need to vote more and see if we can get representatives and senators that actually have an interest in the peoples well being. Sad to say but I guess it is our fault and more so if we do not start correcting the issue.
5
Those others are disproportionately The Other -- poor, very disproportionately black (more than 50% of homicide victims at, what, roughly 12% of the population) and frequently with records of at least petty crime. They're also normally killed one at a time rather than in headline grabbing incidents.
In other words, they're not people that upper middle-class whites tend to associate with or care about very much about actually helping, especially when solutions might involve admitting generations of institutionalized racism in everything from environmental law to housing redlining to employment discrimination to vastly harsher punishing of drugs associated with blacks and so forth.
In other words, they're not people that upper middle-class whites tend to associate with or care about very much about actually helping, especially when solutions might involve admitting generations of institutionalized racism in everything from environmental law to housing redlining to employment discrimination to vastly harsher punishing of drugs associated with blacks and so forth.
1
As has been pointed out repeatedly the people who would have greater gun restrictions do not have the votes. And all the hyperventilating and name calling in the world won't change that.
4
The Republican Reign of Terror on peace loving citizens was in its most despicable display of ignorance today.
Vote out every GOP in November. They have never stood with or for the American Middle Class or "Life, Liberty, or the Pursuit of Happiness". They are owned by the NRA, Exxon, Koch Bros., Wall Street, corporate elitists, and the 1%. They are destroying democracy and life as a civilized society.
Vote out every GOP in November. They have never stood with or for the American Middle Class or "Life, Liberty, or the Pursuit of Happiness". They are owned by the NRA, Exxon, Koch Bros., Wall Street, corporate elitists, and the 1%. They are destroying democracy and life as a civilized society.
6
Assault rifles are weapons of war and have no place in civilized society, except in the hands of qualified law enforcement. The blood of all the people who have died or have been injured from these weapons is on the hands of those members of Congress who have utterly failed to take action to restrict access to these weapons, to say nothing of the culpability of gun manufacturers in their unrelenting pursuit of profits over people. It is a national disgrace. It is that simple!
11
I'm heartbroken and disgusted that such cautious- even timid- legislation can't be passed. Is it that the Republican Party is utterly subservient to the NRA? Or do we have such an abysmally informed electorate that a majority of Americans think that the Second Amendment really guarantees individuals the right to assault weapons and massive magazines? Or do we as a people really not care when dozens of innocent men, women and children are murdered, periodically and regularly? We blame the government for so much; but how can the people of this country fail on gun control so horrifically? What is wrong with us?!
4
As others have stated in their comments, it seems that reporting by the press and media is lagging in its role of investigative journalism. It's time to shine some light on the individuals, groups and companies who are benefiting from the failure to pass even modest gun control legislation. Who are they? Let's see some names. Who are the companies making the most money? Who are the companies, individuals, PACs supporting those who vote against gun control?
13
I am very sorry, I just cannot write down here what I think, it's not printable.
Late me phrase it much more moderate: I am disgusted. But i did not expect any different: after the slaughter of 20 little kids and their teachers and still no action.
You, senators, disgust me.
Late me phrase it much more moderate: I am disgusted. But i did not expect any different: after the slaughter of 20 little kids and their teachers and still no action.
You, senators, disgust me.
18
As long as you can pretend that the victims of the latest mass murder are always somebody else, never you, you can then think just about your rights while ignoring the rights of other to be out in public safely. Americans are especially good at this, as opposed to citizens of other countries who put public safety first and individual rights second. We have it backwards, and as long as there's no price for doing so, we refuse to change.
2
The democrats lost a golden opportunity when they controlled both the Senate and the House. As usual, they put their self interests first, fearing the 2010 elections.
If Hillary is elected, the democrats will have a tough time getting back the Senate, and can forget the House. My fear is that Hillary's gun control promise, like her other promises, will remain just that -- promises.
What a bleak future ..
If Hillary is elected, the democrats will have a tough time getting back the Senate, and can forget the House. My fear is that Hillary's gun control promise, like her other promises, will remain just that -- promises.
What a bleak future ..
You know, I'd like to take to the streets and protest the lack of meaningful gun control, and I'll bet millions would like to join me.
But some of us would likely be shot and killed.
But some of us would likely be shot and killed.
7
The constitution does grant any right to buy or sell arms. It is up to the congress to arm the militia.
1
The rest of us in the world are looking on in disbelief, United States.
7
The first 3 words in the preamble to our Constitution are
WE THE PEOPLE
So folks, do not wait and dream that the Senate or Congress will actually do something. They are held hostage to the gun lobby, so much so that they cannot even pass common sense laws, which are just no-brainers, especially after all the terrible recent events.
No my friends, it is indeed WE THE PEOPLE who will have to do something.
Raise your hand if you have called your congressman or Senator.
If not, then nothing will happen.
Call them.
WE THE PEOPLE
So folks, do not wait and dream that the Senate or Congress will actually do something. They are held hostage to the gun lobby, so much so that they cannot even pass common sense laws, which are just no-brainers, especially after all the terrible recent events.
No my friends, it is indeed WE THE PEOPLE who will have to do something.
Raise your hand if you have called your congressman or Senator.
If not, then nothing will happen.
Call them.
7
The authors of the legislation up for a vote today intentionally wrote the most basic, much-needed, what they assumed would be the easiest gun legislation that would pass: keeping guns out of the hands of suspected terrorists. Every Senator who voted against these bills should NEVER be allowed to speak of fighting terrorism publicly again. They are hypocrites all and are bought and paid for by the NRA. Disgusting, outrageous, and shameful. Vote them out!!! Or donate to help others do so.
8
Party first, country second.
Nothing will change until that changes.
I fear the Republicans may destroy our country if we Americans don't wake up and stop voting for such unbelievably selfish, horrible people.
Nothing will change until that changes.
I fear the Republicans may destroy our country if we Americans don't wake up and stop voting for such unbelievably selfish, horrible people.
11
As far as I'm concerned the NRA is a terrorist sponsoring organization and should be treated as such.
14
So folks on the no-fly list can still buy a gun? That doesn't seem right.
5
We are not safe here!! We should all be very afraid, because there is nowhere to feel safe...used to be your neighborhood cops were who you called when there was trouble, not anymore! They want us all to be armed to the teeth, and with any weapon we choose! It's the wild west of madness!!
2
It's really not. Firearm homicide rates are *down*, not up.
2
Paper and legislation will always give you a false sense of security. People meaning to harm you will do it in whatever way possible. By blowing people up, smuggling in guns (like in the Paris attack), or running over people with cars. You won't be safe. Less laws equal true freedom. I would be fine if it were possible to have some kind of anon yet secure way to validate yourself as a good and mentally stable person, but alas we don't have it. Just to let you know, I do own an AR, and I am glad I can own one.
But, Joe, if all you're worried about is a list, you're probably on a bunch of lists anyway. Did you buy your firearm new? The gun shop probably keeps a customer list. Did you pay with a credit card? Look on your VISA or M/C statement. Do you buy ammunition at Cabelas? You're probably on their mailing list. If you belong to the NRA, believe me, they've got a list; they want to send you the monthly subscription to their publication and offer you discounts on various products. (They'd probably like a donation for their lobbying efforts, also.)
I mean, any list can be subpoenaed or hacked. Granted it's not like the government has an easy one-stop-shopping list of gun owners. But really, who owns guns is not generally much of a secret anyway. Most gun owners like to talk about their firearms.
Joe, you sound really reasonable. But if these rapid-fire guns proliferate in the general population, the price will drop. Imagine gangs with these things. It'll be guerilla war for somebody like me to walk to the grocery store. I don't want to carry a gun. We're kind of in this together. What can we do?
I mean, any list can be subpoenaed or hacked. Granted it's not like the government has an easy one-stop-shopping list of gun owners. But really, who owns guns is not generally much of a secret anyway. Most gun owners like to talk about their firearms.
Joe, you sound really reasonable. But if these rapid-fire guns proliferate in the general population, the price will drop. Imagine gangs with these things. It'll be guerilla war for somebody like me to walk to the grocery store. I don't want to carry a gun. We're kind of in this together. What can we do?
2
Why aren't religious leaders of all stripes crying out for sane gun control? This is a moral issue far more than a political issue. Our political cowards, having sold their souls to gun manufacturers, need a jolt. Because of the abortion issue, Christians often count themselves in the Republican camp. A warning from a Cardinal Dolan or O'Malley that such support could be in jeopardy, might make Republicans think twice about putting money ahead of lives.
5
Where was the due process afforded the victims in Orlando? The right of anyone to buy a military firearm, with less scrutiny than obtaining a driver's license, is more important than their lives.
When are we going to get rid of these politicians who put their paychecks ahead of our lives?
When are we going to get rid of these politicians who put their paychecks ahead of our lives?
12
While other countries who allow private gun ownership require licensing and registration of people's guns, here the gun proponents are wholly against it. Yet, they register their cars, and obtain both hunting and drivers licenses. What is it about licensing and registering a gun that upsets them? Do they think that some official isn't capable of cross referencing these three databases? Canada has both of these and no issues with gun ownership. It seems so simple.
7
You don't need a hunting license to shoot paper or clay targets at the range...
2
Guns are just apple pie to Americans, what can the rest of the world say?
1
The Second Amendment
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
2
Do you belong to a militia?
1
The second amendment was written when the U.S. had no (none, zero) military. At that time, the country relied on local militia (e.g., "minutemen") to defend the country. As such, of course it was necessary to prohibit the government from restricting members of such militia to own weapons. Despite what the Supreme Court said most recently, which was a complete reversal of what the Supreme Court said numerous times before, it was not intended to apply to individuals owning weapons for their own protection. That doesn't mean we should make it illegal to own guns, but it is wrong to think it is a constitutional right.
4
a militia of one
In November, Pennsylvanians need to remember how Pat Toomey voted today.
7
"The relatively limited time that Congress will be in session before the November elections"???? 4 months!! The government at work.
3
What is so hard about dis-allowing anyone on the terrorist's watch list access to a gun? There is no need to take guns away from everyone.
If a kid is on the playground with a stick, hitting the other children. Do you take the stick away from the child or do you give sticks to every child?
If a kid is on the playground with a stick, hitting the other children. Do you take the stick away from the child or do you give sticks to every child?
8
The question is "Can we make money selling a sticks to all the other kids to defend themselves?"
5
Will you listen to the ACLU?
https://www.aclu.org/blog/washington-markup/use-error-prone-and-unfair-w...
https://www.aclu.org/blog/washington-markup/use-error-prone-and-unfair-w...
1
Following a faithful ideological rigid stance, and allegiance to an out of control gun lobby/N.R.A., the republican-controlled senate has, once again, committed malpractice against the majority, demanding common sense measures to stop the indiscriminate sale of guns, and the ongoing slaughter of innocent victims. Irrespective of whether the shooter has sympathies to extremist violent fanatics (radical Islamism being prominent), or is mentally deranged, the common denominator is the profusion of weapons available. And lest we forget, the free sale of military-style guns (AR-15) to the civilian population, a clear abuse of freedom we must call "license". How come we can't stop this madness? No will, no courage nor determination to change for the better?
8
I feel absolutely disgusted and thoroughly helpless about this despicable inaction on the part of the "tough on terror" Republicans. Why not gift wrap machine guns and send one to all the unstable losers out there who seek "martyrdom" or want to take as many people out as they can for bigger headlines. No worries about high shipping costs, there are plenty right here in the USA.
10
I find it interesting that people both Democrat and Republican will complain about "groups" or "individual" distrust of our government and talk about how paranoid or irrational they are. And then our government goes ahead and by redacting and editing the official transcripts in a blatant attempt hides information. Then try to completely spin what really happened away from the truth, and into something else because it does not fit the political narrative of political correctness, and the forced and needless agenda of gun control. This just reinforces and potentially legitimizes the mindset of those who claim you cannot trust the government.
So is this a legitimate reason to impeach Loretta Lynch? Should we call for the impeachment of Obama as well? This was not a matter of national security protecting us from imminent nuclear destruction by a foreign power. This was just needless politically motivated dishonesty. Therefore how can they be trusted with the offices they hold? I do not care if we are just half a year away from a new president. We need to set the example and expectation for the next round of leaders who are supposed to hold the public trust. I say impeach.
So is this a legitimate reason to impeach Loretta Lynch? Should we call for the impeachment of Obama as well? This was not a matter of national security protecting us from imminent nuclear destruction by a foreign power. This was just needless politically motivated dishonesty. Therefore how can they be trusted with the offices they hold? I do not care if we are just half a year away from a new president. We need to set the example and expectation for the next round of leaders who are supposed to hold the public trust. I say impeach.
2
As someone who wants far reaching gun control legislation, I find the Republicans proposal extremely lacking. However, at this point, I would accept the Republicans proposal, if they swear to approve it, if only to do SOMETHING. Perhaps we can build on it going forward. This deadlock is unacceptable.
3
The Republican's proposals are designed to do nothing so that they can point to the failure as justification that all gun control is pointless. One almost wishes that there was a mass murder of a majority of NRA led politicians....How quick would there be a consensus on gun control then?
4
Maybe someday we will have a congress that serves the American people. I hope I live to see that day.
14
The Republican party continues to commit suicide. It's just sad that the country is suffering as a result. It won't be long before they lose their majority. Perhaps for good.
Good riddance!
Good riddance!
10
The Republicans and the NRA may congratulate themselves as they continue to stymie efforts to bring some sanity on the issue of guns but for the country as a whole it will to be an unmitigated disaster as the casualties mount, whether through mass shootings or in the daily grind of gun violence. And as a society we deserve nothing less since it is within our power to change the status quo but decline to do so because we willingly cede control of the issue to a fanatical minority.
But of one thing we can be certain. That within a matter of days or, at most, weeks we will be treated to another of these massacres and, in the end, it won't really matter why he, the next mass murdering shooter, did it. But we will know that we did nothing to stop him.
But of one thing we can be certain. That within a matter of days or, at most, weeks we will be treated to another of these massacres and, in the end, it won't really matter why he, the next mass murdering shooter, did it. But we will know that we did nothing to stop him.
6
Wayne LaPierre is a venal ghoul whose only interest is fabricating threats, stoking fear, and laughing all the way to the bank thanks to payouts from the gun makers. It's money, pure and simple.
9
The NY Times should publish, on its front page, the names of every do nothing senator who voted against any of these gun control bills!
27
Check Twitter for this info. John McCain, top recipient of money from the NRA voted against all four measures. Surprised? No.
3
Did the two senators from Florida vote "No" on the four common sense gun amendments--this includes Marco Rubio, right? If there Florida Senators voted "No," then Florida voters have a clear choice in November.
8
@ E.C.
RE "Support for gun confiscation has been absolutely catastrophic for Democrats"
This a typical cheap shot misrepresentation of the Dem position on sensible gun control measures. Not one of the 4 measures rejected today by the GOP controlled senate says anything even remotely close to "confiscation". What has been catastrophic is that through gerrymandering the congress and senate are GOP-dominated where a rump is holding the whole place to ransom with a bunch of gleeful stalwart obstructionists holding court whose sole aim is to thwart Obama's governance with political impunity because their seats are safe.
RE "Support for gun confiscation has been absolutely catastrophic for Democrats"
This a typical cheap shot misrepresentation of the Dem position on sensible gun control measures. Not one of the 4 measures rejected today by the GOP controlled senate says anything even remotely close to "confiscation". What has been catastrophic is that through gerrymandering the congress and senate are GOP-dominated where a rump is holding the whole place to ransom with a bunch of gleeful stalwart obstructionists holding court whose sole aim is to thwart Obama's governance with political impunity because their seats are safe.
8
The Senate buildings are well guarded, metal detectors and capitol police everywhere. If the Senators had to live and work as the rest of us do in unguarded workplaces and homes, would they be so cavalier with their own lives? Is this what we've come to: naked self interest above all else at all times?
16
Now Republicans have finally crossed the line where they'd rather allow potential terrorists to have easy access to military assault-type weapons than protect the safety of innocent citizens like those in Orlando and elsewhere. Given the overwhelming public support for such measures closing loopholes in the easy access to weapons of mass murder, it is now up to the Democrats to make this an important campaign issue in retaking control of the Senate. Americans need to know where their candidates stand and vote to curtail the culture of death that Republicans have visited upon us.
13
Republicans proposed a measure that banned sales to suspected terrorists. NRA supported it. Democrats voted it down. So you can't count on Democrats to do anything. Congress is a joke.
That "culture of death" is actually mostly found in the heavily poor, heavily minority, mostly Democratic-leaning, historically neglected inner cities where CNN reporters rarely find cute blond girls as photogenic kidnapping victims to report upon.
If you want to address homicide, you should look at where it's concentrated, and understand *why* certain populations feel so hopeless that illegally carrying handguns and shooting each other is a better solution than relying on the police and the rest of society to help them.
If you want to address homicide, you should look at where it's concentrated, and understand *why* certain populations feel so hopeless that illegally carrying handguns and shooting each other is a better solution than relying on the police and the rest of society to help them.
Laughable that the Party of (limited) civil rights is now concerned about due process for possible terrorists. The same Party that no doubt supports profiling of minorities is more concerned about protecting the NRA! Republican due process is an oxymoron.
3
Seems it is time to take away “gun free zones” that make up the galleries and the halls of the Senate and House.
“MY right to have a gun shall not be abridged just because it’s in the US Congress, Capitol, or state legislatures. Same with the Supreme Court and all other courts!”
Those family members who watched from the galleries are stronger people than I am. I would just want to start screaming--“DO YOUR JOB!!’
Vote on Merrick Garland and BAN ASSAULT WEAPONS you gutless wonders!
“MY right to have a gun shall not be abridged just because it’s in the US Congress, Capitol, or state legislatures. Same with the Supreme Court and all other courts!”
Those family members who watched from the galleries are stronger people than I am. I would just want to start screaming--“DO YOUR JOB!!’
Vote on Merrick Garland and BAN ASSAULT WEAPONS you gutless wonders!
16
Complete disregard for the will of the people. Dark money from powerful lobbyists of the NRA and the Gun manufacturers help secure the political careers of Republican members of congress. They have no common decency or respect for life. Despite the carnage and human toll they don't have the will take a stand.
11
And at least 300 Dems in the US House of Reps!
3
Where else is useless paid such a high wage?
8
ho hum just another day in the office (sad). Let's all fiddle now, while someone somewhere is planning another mass murder with an assault weapon.
6
Has Repulican party ever done anything good for the people they're supposed to represent? I'm not American, I don't know the history, but it seems to me that they've been around just to declare wars or block any bills proposed by the other party.
If it used to be a great party before, they will need to make their party great again. It's even harder now because they're being stuck with Trump.
If it used to be a great party before, they will need to make their party great again. It's even harder now because they're being stuck with Trump.
5
If anyone wonders why politicians in Washington are so despised, this is the reason. While Democrats aren't perfect, at least they're on the right side of the debate and are trying modestly, but all the Republicans can do is drive the country's electorate to disgust.
12
And yet the Republicans get voted in just like the Democrats do. So they are responding to their electorate. Their electorate sees things differently than you do.
1
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Republican Senators, along with two Democratic Senators, for voting to support ISIL in its terrorist attacks against American citizens on American soil. How thoughtful for these Senators to help the terrorists build up their weaponry arsenal.
17
In Australia, the Port Arthur tragedy prompted strict gun controls and even a buy-back program funded by taxes. Taxes! The people demanded action and the government followed. Stand proudly, Australia, that's democracy.
Here, we've had more tragedies, the same level of outrage, but no action. Here, it's even illegal for the CDC to study the issue; our official policy is ignorance.
Why? Because the NRA owns a political party whose power comes from gerrymandering, and our outdated, disproportionally-elected Senate grants rural states out-sized power beyond the Founders' imagination.
In America, special interests rule. We have become a despicable excuse for a democracy, and a blood-drenched, violent, grotesque society.
signed,
White, male, Reagan-loving owner of a shotgun and rifle
Here, we've had more tragedies, the same level of outrage, but no action. Here, it's even illegal for the CDC to study the issue; our official policy is ignorance.
Why? Because the NRA owns a political party whose power comes from gerrymandering, and our outdated, disproportionally-elected Senate grants rural states out-sized power beyond the Founders' imagination.
In America, special interests rule. We have become a despicable excuse for a democracy, and a blood-drenched, violent, grotesque society.
signed,
White, male, Reagan-loving owner of a shotgun and rifle
19
Thank you.
We should stand for the Bill of Rights and the fifth amendment. Denying someone the right to bear arms - a fundamental right clearly guaranteed by the constitution - by some secret "list" takes things a step further and denies the fifth amendment as well. Its also silly to go around labeling an ordinary rifle like the AR-15 as a "weapon of war". it is no such thing. Yes its hard to look for solutions that fit within the bill of rights but search we must. Jumping quickly on board with feel good "gun control" measures is the path of the coward and the politician angling for a few votes.
5
Just tell us what "well-regulated militia" you belong to, OK?
6
I'd like to know, too.
1
Times change. Back when the Constitution was written women weren't considered "people." In fact, "people" and "citizens" were basically only land-owning white dudes and they were pretty much the only ones who could vote, own guns, or have any rights. Any document must be understood considering the time period in which it was framed. Do you want to go back to the late 1700's and get literal with what they meant? I don't. But then again, I'm a woman and "We the People" wouldn't have applied to me.
The NRA and the Republican'ts as well as those who vote for and assist them, and let's all be honest and clear, ARE terrorists! Look at their actions not words. C'mon Americans, let's join the 21st century and the civilized world in 2016 rather than go backwards toward the first century. Just another reason to vote ONLY Democrat 2016.
10
Democrats defeated the Republican bill banned sales to suspected terrorists. You just rush to the conclusion that is all the GOP's fault. Democrats wouldn't even vote for more funding for background checks. If they are so serious about gun control you think they could at least do that.
1
There's irony here … somewhere.
2nd Amendment:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
2nd Beatitude:
"Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted."
2nd Amendment:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
2nd Beatitude:
"Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted."
2
What's it going to take? 100 murdered in a single event? 200? 500? The NRA and it's radical gun-sick constituency, is covered in blood as a result of it's refusal to support even the most basic of control on gun policy.
6
Pure political theater. Glad they failed. I always recite a bunch of facts like, homicides with guns have declined by 50% since 1992 despite there being more guns than ever. Clearly more guns does not equal more crime. But most of you don't care about facts. Buy into the media hysteria and don't be bothered to look for real causes and real solutions.
7
You want facts? How about in the USA 33,000 die by gun violence every year. Stop being a tool of the NRA. The USA has 10 gun deaths per 100,000, compared to less than 1 per 100,000 in Australia. Here's a chart full of facts for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death...
6
Joe, any death by a hand gun is one death too many. We try to eradicate diseases like polio and measles, why not death by bullet?
2
Please feel free to offer some solutions
Nobody wants terrorists to buy guns, said Mitch McConnell. I wish he would do something that would make me believe he means that.
6
Enough of waiting around for Congress (or the Supreme Court) to do anything while we hold our breaths and hope another mass shooting won't occur before November. Enough of parsing the language in measures that will never pass. It's just a dodge, a distraction, and the NRA is loving every minute of it.
No, it's time for the media (yes, the media!) to step up. I am sick of, and sickened by, the sweet faces of children and young men and women who died by gun in an election year. It's time to see the faces of those who profit from their death.
I want to see pictures and hear snippets about "lifestyles" of the CEO's of gun manufacturers. Let's see pictures of congressmen who have profited from the NRA, accompanied by dollar amounts of how much they received. Let's meet the sellers at gun shows, and those who run the web sites where you can get around a background check. Terrorist watch lists are only one facet - again, we're off to the races on that while profits hum along nicely for ... whom? What are their names? Pictures please; addresses of their estates so we can march up & down with signs. Please! Is investigative journalism dead? Or is the media too connected to that same web of corporate interest?
No, it's time for the media (yes, the media!) to step up. I am sick of, and sickened by, the sweet faces of children and young men and women who died by gun in an election year. It's time to see the faces of those who profit from their death.
I want to see pictures and hear snippets about "lifestyles" of the CEO's of gun manufacturers. Let's see pictures of congressmen who have profited from the NRA, accompanied by dollar amounts of how much they received. Let's meet the sellers at gun shows, and those who run the web sites where you can get around a background check. Terrorist watch lists are only one facet - again, we're off to the races on that while profits hum along nicely for ... whom? What are their names? Pictures please; addresses of their estates so we can march up & down with signs. Please! Is investigative journalism dead? Or is the media too connected to that same web of corporate interest?
18
Shamedul and heartbreaking. Our country, our policies and politicians have been for sale to special interest groups (NRA) for way to long. I don't see it changing for a long time if ever. We as individuals have lost our voice .
6
So why doesn't the Times publish the roll call on these votes so the general public can know which Senators are complicit in the inevitable next mass killing using an assault rifle with a large magazine with easily available military grade ordinance that even law enforcement doesn't use.
13
your tax $ at work
4
55% voters are clearly for MORE gun control
http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx
the GOP are voting against 55% of voters like me who believe in stronger gun control
http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx
the GOP are voting against 55% of voters like me who believe in stronger gun control
5
Why did anyone expect common sense about this? Guns are as American as apple pie.
4
This election cycle, congressional votes against gun control will turn out voters. We've had enough of cowardice when thousands of Americans die needlessly.
5
Are we really having a national debate about whether or not people on a federal terror watch list should be allowed to purchase military assault rifles? I think our senators should be required to wear suits with sewn-on patches naming their sponsors, much like the NASCAR folks do.
20
The only way things are going to change is we vote these politicians who are bought and paid for by the NRA out of office. Force them into retirement. Vote them out of office. We can stop the madness if we fire them.
6
Or perhaps it will take the death of a relative of one of the politicians instead of a relative of one of us "common people" before anything gets done. It seems as if that's the only way we get through to anyone. When we send troops to "fight for freedom," how many Congressional representatives send their own children?
2
This was all political posturing on both sides if the NYTimes is reporting things accurately. Neither side wanted their bill to pass if they could use it failure to hammer the other side.
3
Exactly right. Their were similarities in the proposals from both parties. Even if they agree on legislation, they won't vote for it if it comes from the other party. This happens way to often. And they use the failures to blame the other party.
This is beyond shameful and disgusting.
7
I dedicate this written comment to furthering freedom and stopping the military/police/prison empire.
Since Joe Biden put forth the crime bill and Bill Clinton signed it in the 1990's, the government of both parties has steadily built an evil empire of military backed and supplied police forces here in America. Millions were sent to Prison, millions more lives were destroyed with the stigma of a record, people have been gunned down reflexively, countless times prosecutors blackmailed defendants to accept plea bargains irregardless of guilt or innocence, and the nation is now occupied by a militarized police force that answers to no one, now further empowered by the Supreme court to conduct searches after illegal stops.
Freedom is lost. We are now "The Land Of Laws" that rule the nation, preying on the very public that finances it.
I support all gun ownership and oppose all future efforts at any gun legislation that limits ownership in any way.
The price of freedom was always high throughout our history, and I do not now cower in the face of brutal public control.
Knee jerk reactions to abominable gun massacres is the hallmark of gun control advocates who miss the big picture to garner temporary support and admiration.
The Terrorists want gun control so we disarm ourselves leaving America open to attack from foreign forces. It is their long term strategy to destroy the very deterrent that kept America free of foreign forces for two hundred years.
Be strong, don't cower
Since Joe Biden put forth the crime bill and Bill Clinton signed it in the 1990's, the government of both parties has steadily built an evil empire of military backed and supplied police forces here in America. Millions were sent to Prison, millions more lives were destroyed with the stigma of a record, people have been gunned down reflexively, countless times prosecutors blackmailed defendants to accept plea bargains irregardless of guilt or innocence, and the nation is now occupied by a militarized police force that answers to no one, now further empowered by the Supreme court to conduct searches after illegal stops.
Freedom is lost. We are now "The Land Of Laws" that rule the nation, preying on the very public that finances it.
I support all gun ownership and oppose all future efforts at any gun legislation that limits ownership in any way.
The price of freedom was always high throughout our history, and I do not now cower in the face of brutal public control.
Knee jerk reactions to abominable gun massacres is the hallmark of gun control advocates who miss the big picture to garner temporary support and admiration.
The Terrorists want gun control so we disarm ourselves leaving America open to attack from foreign forces. It is their long term strategy to destroy the very deterrent that kept America free of foreign forces for two hundred years.
Be strong, don't cower
3
This has got to be a joke.
Hi Laura.........too much truth for your little mind?
Think about it. Don't look the other way when injustice occurs.
Think about it. Don't look the other way when injustice occurs.
If the news media reported on this story as extensively as they did the Orlando shootings, naming the Senators who voted against these measures, my guess is that an outraged public might be influential in changing some minds.
Because these legislative sessions happen largely behind the scenes, it's all too easy to cow tow to the NRA without being held accountable.
Because these legislative sessions happen largely behind the scenes, it's all too easy to cow tow to the NRA without being held accountable.
6
The only way to fight the madness of the Congress lies in adopting the same tactics as the NRA. They have several million members who seem to control majorities in both houses of Congress. How? They spend money to defeat members who vote for limiting the availability of firearms.
Rather than bewailing our plight, let's battle back. I don't mean just with votes for conventional political candidates who support the cause of gun control (though that's a start). We need a strong lobby representing the majority of Americans, a lobby against the indiscriminate purchase of guns, and especially against certain classes of guns (military weapons firing military ammunition in large clips). We should put our money where our principles lie. And that lobby should seek to prevent the election of legislators who vote against gun control. The Supreme Court says that money is free speech. I'm ready to speak out with my donations.
Rather than bewailing our plight, let's battle back. I don't mean just with votes for conventional political candidates who support the cause of gun control (though that's a start). We need a strong lobby representing the majority of Americans, a lobby against the indiscriminate purchase of guns, and especially against certain classes of guns (military weapons firing military ammunition in large clips). We should put our money where our principles lie. And that lobby should seek to prevent the election of legislators who vote against gun control. The Supreme Court says that money is free speech. I'm ready to speak out with my donations.
5
The insanity of guns will be the death of our current semi-safe lifestyle in America. Mass shootings will become more frequent now. What's to stop them? The Republicans are more concerned with their own careers and are so afraid of the NRA. But we already knew this when they refused to do anything after those school children were gunned down in cold blood. We are doomed.
9
You'd think that being on a no-fly list would prevent someone from buying milk or bread.
What circumstances demand that someone need to purchase an assault-style weapon so impulsively and immediately?
What circumstances demand that someone need to purchase an assault-style weapon so impulsively and immediately?
7
Republican, in the deep pockets of the gun industry, go against the polls and common sense and common decency, again. Why do the chickens keep voting for Colonel Sanders?
3
Trump will "make America great again" by helping Democrats win both the House and Senate. Check the numbers: 88 seats in play, enough to break the GOP's stranglehold on Congress. Goodbye, lockstep opposition to everything proposed; hello, full Supreme Court and implementation of Obama's best proposals, including the American Jobs Act and common sense gun control measures. That's how we make America great again. And goodbye Citizens United, too.
9
It would be a great thing if the Dems went for the same law the Australians adopted, banning all automatic weapons.
Make it a central election issue.
Nobody should have a fundamental right to own an AR15.
There is no good reason to own one, unless you have no faith in a participatory democracy. If you don't, please feel free to buy a one way ticket to elsewhere.
Make it a central election issue.
Nobody should have a fundamental right to own an AR15.
There is no good reason to own one, unless you have no faith in a participatory democracy. If you don't, please feel free to buy a one way ticket to elsewhere.
8
Automatic weapons are basically already highly regulated (BATFE permission, extremely limited supply since they have to be pre-1986), and in many states effectively banned completely (e.g. California = forget it, you need explicit permission from DOJ and the answer is always no by default).
AR-15s are not in any way automatic weapons, and it's a highly illegal process to convert one -- even possession of the parts and tools to do so can send you to federal prison.
You don't have a fundamental right to invent your own facts without more knowledgeable people calling you out on them. If you don't have interest in facts, feel free to go to an echo chamber where you can be surrounded by lies more pleasing to you.
AR-15s are not in any way automatic weapons, and it's a highly illegal process to convert one -- even possession of the parts and tools to do so can send you to federal prison.
You don't have a fundamental right to invent your own facts without more knowledgeable people calling you out on them. If you don't have interest in facts, feel free to go to an echo chamber where you can be surrounded by lies more pleasing to you.
2
LW,
I simply suggested that we follow Australia's lead.
They don't seem to have nearly as many mass killings as we do.
I simply suggested that we follow Australia's lead.
They don't seem to have nearly as many mass killings as we do.
2
LW,
highly illegal, yet, fairly easy to convert.
You seem to have sent me a recycled posting, since it responds poorly to mine.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/dec/17/how-many-ar15-rifle....
highly illegal, yet, fairly easy to convert.
You seem to have sent me a recycled posting, since it responds poorly to mine.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/dec/17/how-many-ar15-rifle....
The NYT should boldly publish the names of those Senators that voted these measures down on the front page.
12
Thank God the Senate didn't give into another series of Knee Jerk Reaction Bills.
Would any of those bills proposed today have stopped or prevented the shooting in Florida.
NO!
You have two choices
Create Gun Free Zones like the Pulse in Orlando.
If you do you'd better start requiring the owners of facilities to provide adequate "armed defense" and when the attack of the day is getting rushed by clowns with rifles, one off duty cop with a pistol is Not adequate.
or
Do what my home State of Oregon does...
If you're a concealed carry licensee then your expected to follow the law irregardless of your location.
I agree that mixing alcohol and guns is "no bueno"
But I have to tell you if I'm in some bar and security (assuming the bar has some in the first place) does not stop the Whackado from getting inside and I've taken shelter in a backroom or bathroom...
I really will not be liking the odds or my chances with a gun in my hand in that situation.
But I will for dang sure be liking them a Whole Lot Less without one!
Would any of those bills proposed today have stopped or prevented the shooting in Florida.
NO!
You have two choices
Create Gun Free Zones like the Pulse in Orlando.
If you do you'd better start requiring the owners of facilities to provide adequate "armed defense" and when the attack of the day is getting rushed by clowns with rifles, one off duty cop with a pistol is Not adequate.
or
Do what my home State of Oregon does...
If you're a concealed carry licensee then your expected to follow the law irregardless of your location.
I agree that mixing alcohol and guns is "no bueno"
But I have to tell you if I'm in some bar and security (assuming the bar has some in the first place) does not stop the Whackado from getting inside and I've taken shelter in a backroom or bathroom...
I really will not be liking the odds or my chances with a gun in my hand in that situation.
But I will for dang sure be liking them a Whole Lot Less without one!
4
If guns sales do, in fact, increase following mass shootings, as is widely reported, it stands to reason that the N.R.A. and the recipients of N.R.A. largesse in Congress will do all within their power to ensure maximum profits for their patrons in the weapons industry, even in the aftermath of another likely preventable gun-related tragedy. This is a terribly disappointing outcome, but sadly, not surprising. Where are the hearts and consciences of those who would vote against common sense gun control measures following tragedies like Sandy Hook, Emanuel AME Church and Pulse nightclub? Or do campaign contributions render many of our elected representatives heartless and conscienceless? It's time to vote them out.
4
I'm so disappointed that Obama, who I admire and support vigorously on most other issues, and Senate Democrats actually support this idea of a list. How does one end up on The List? How does one find out if one is on The List? How does one challenge a "ruling" of being placed on The List? What other rights would be taken away based on being placed on The List? Can employers now limit hiring or fire current employees because you have been placed on The List? To draw from Matthew McConaughey in the 1990s movie "A Time to Kill": Imagine someone who has done nothing wrong or has been maliciously placed on a watch-list. He cannot buy a gun. Cannot qualify for a passport. He loses his job, and nobody will hire him. He has no recourse and his life completely disrupted and their is nowhere to turn for help. Now, imagine he is White.
3
I am extremely disappointed that the New York Times is covering this like it is a matter of equally rational proposals. This article is a great example of what is wrong with journalism today. No analysis, no reason. It is clearly irrational to allow people who are too dangerous to fly in airplanes to buy guns.
10
We should follow Australia's example. Make a real change.
8
Not only is it an outrage that NRA influence on GOP senators yet prevails once again, but as victims' families will undoubtedly once again hold the gun industry culpable for this tragedy, and seek justice, they will find out to their dismay that an extraordinary immunity from such suits was granted to the gun industry by Congress in 2005. Incredibly Congress selected a specific industry to be treated differently under the law and has decided to limit the rights of a specific class of citizens — victims of gun violence — while not limiting the rights of other citizens.
11
With so many guns already in circulation does legislation even matter? Until it falls apart, the GOP will always do the NRA's bidding. Leave it to the states, and vote the do-nothing GOP out of office in November.
5
A loophole that can lead to another 9/11 that must be closed is the following. It is possible for a group of terrorists to acquire a large number of assault rifles and ammunition. Body armor can be bought or it can be made by the terrorists themselves. Such a group of well trained terrorists can launch a terrible attack where they provide cover for each other.
It can be a complex attack involving diversionary attacks, gunmen hiding outside the venue of the attack who then target law enforcement when then thy arrive at the scene, should be seriously considered as a possible attack waiting to happen.
It can be a complex attack involving diversionary attacks, gunmen hiding outside the venue of the attack who then target law enforcement when then thy arrive at the scene, should be seriously considered as a possible attack waiting to happen.
1
A big quibble with your lead sentence, also reflected in some versions of your headline that have appeared in various places. The Senate did not FAIL to pass those bills. Its majority (which one trusts will be swept away this November) REFUSED to pass them. Certainly it was failure from the point of view of the good guys, but at least for now they and the term "Senate" are not synonymous.
3
So 100+ dead or wounded still isn't enough for Congress to act. I shudder to think what it will take.
9
This is just so wrong. Vote them all out in November.
6
Look at all the calls here to repeal the 2A.
"The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate."
The process is clear, get to work.
It should be one of Hillary's planks, push hard Dems!
"The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate."
The process is clear, get to work.
It should be one of Hillary's planks, push hard Dems!
3
Of course the senate voted the measures down. Was anyone really surprised this would happen? The NRA owns too many politicians including the entire republican party. The senate is incapable to taking any stand whatsoever.
In Chicago alone, over the memorial weekend 67 people were shot, 6 of them fatally.
In Chicago alone, over the memorial weekend 67 people were shot, 6 of them fatally.
5
Thank God there's an election in 5 months. Let's make it a national referendum on gun safety and throw out all those who serve the NRA before the public.
11
As the post preceding yours points out, seems their names are not, including by this newspaper, widely disseminated or published.
2
Who are the senators who keep voting on behalf of the NRA? Is it so difficult for the media not to publish a list? Where is the NYT on this? I would like to see a front page list of each and every senator who keeps voting against common sense gun control contrary to the wishes of 90% of the american public.
It should be published every day.
It should be published every day.
9
The Senate should be sold to the NRA and the room itself called the NRA room. The public would get a few bucks back, the NRA already owns it anyways!
7
Congress is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the NRA.
14
Today the Supreme Court sent a clear message that states can regulate guns. While Congress is paralyzed, the states can pursue restrictions on assault weapons and demand background checks. Isn't this the sort of decentralized, state-led government the Republicans claim to love?
7
Some scholars argue Soviet Russia met its demise; collapsed from within, in part, because it had lost abilities to respond to domestic upheavals.
Seems to me, as Katrina, a crumbling infrastructure, abysmal public education and lax gun laws demonstrate, the US inability to respond to internal pressures is quite troubling.
Seems to me, as Katrina, a crumbling infrastructure, abysmal public education and lax gun laws demonstrate, the US inability to respond to internal pressures is quite troubling.
6
Holding an elected office must be sweet beyond comparison because how else do you explain that politicians value gun ownership and freedom no matter how large or ridiculous the weapon may be, over human life and the right to live in peace and without fear of getting gunned down in public. It's a tragic, sick flaw unique to America. Beyond comprehension.
7
Children in school blown to pieces, a whole nightclub full of people , a theater full of people., what does it take to get either a ban on assualt weapons or common sense controls!! Obviously they do not care about most people, they only cater to the NRA! I'm done with them all! Something is very very wrong with OUR democracy!!!
14
We don't have a democracy. Corporations rule.
1
There's a simple solution to this. Vote. Vote HRC and 60 Democratic senators. Quite simple, really.
8
I wonder who is responsible for the next slaughter by assault rifle?
3
What false equivalence: "Senate Votes Down 4 Measures Meant to Curb Gun Sales" Republicans killed the assault weapons curb should be the headline. This is the problem. It is not bipartisan to report that the Senate failed when the Republicans blocked the curbs.
Here's another possible title: "NRA Employees in the Senate Block Assault Weapon curbs"
As long as the press treats gun regulation as if it was a team sport or something that does not endanger our lives, these tragedies will persist. Gun deaths are a Public Health issue not a Constitutional issue. The Second Amendment is about protecting the state not about assault weapons for all.
Here's another possible title: "NRA Employees in the Senate Block Assault Weapon curbs"
As long as the press treats gun regulation as if it was a team sport or something that does not endanger our lives, these tragedies will persist. Gun deaths are a Public Health issue not a Constitutional issue. The Second Amendment is about protecting the state not about assault weapons for all.
8
Their wasn't a proposal for assault weapons ban. Democrats shot down Republicans measure to deny sales to suspected terrorists. Democrats say they want stricter gun control and they can't pass that ? It's all a joke. Both parties are to blame
This is the type of do nothing attitude of the Republicans that give them Trump. Yet, they continue down the same path. I don't understand why they don't get it. They won't have to worry about their "life-time" jobs as senators or representatives when the Donald drags them out of office for doing nothing.
4
There is one and only one way to advance any constructive agenda on gun sanity in America and that is to elect a new Congress: both houses. We're thrashing aimlessly with this aspect of our domestic security policy here. This is not President Obama's fault, the rhetorical tendencies of Donald Trump and John McCain notwithstanding.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
4
Shame on the GOP. Shame on the NRA. And shame on voters who put their delusional fantasies about gun ownership making them free over the safety of their fellow citizens.
9
I have cousins who hunt and are rabid supporters of unfettered access to guns. If they get even a sniff of my wanting to restrict access to guns, they point to themselves as hunters who need guns. When I suggest restricting access to assault weapons, because surely you don't need an assault weapon to hunt deer and ducks, they stop responding. There is no reasoning with people who are determined to reject any suggestion as anti-Constitutional, unfair, and overreacting. Common sense has no place in the gun discussion. They are the same people who reject facts in favor of the fiction that President Obama has made the country worse - even though by almost every measure, our country is in better shape economically and socially than at the end of the Bush administration. There is no compromise possible. The only thing that will change the equation is for Democrats to gain control of both the House and Senate, and pass a bill that places meaningful restrictions on access to guns and types of guns.
11
People are so naïve, grasping simplistic interpretations, the second amendment. If you were to take the real feel of the Second Amendment, the idea is to not allow the government to get out of control by being armed comparatively to the government's armament.
When you consider firearms versus drones, Apache helicopters, cruise missiles, nuclear weapons and compare that to the time when it was muskets versus muskets it's almost laughable.
The potential of the Internet is more in line with the Second Amendment than firearms in today's culture. We can spend dollars with one click of the mouse and yet it's not deemed secure enough to handle voting. People can spend countless hours on social trivia or scripture discussions, but can't find the motivation to discuss, learn/teach and listen not ipolitically.
To guard against a Government turning bad you need brainpower more than firepower .
When you consider firearms versus drones, Apache helicopters, cruise missiles, nuclear weapons and compare that to the time when it was muskets versus muskets it's almost laughable.
The potential of the Internet is more in line with the Second Amendment than firearms in today's culture. We can spend dollars with one click of the mouse and yet it's not deemed secure enough to handle voting. People can spend countless hours on social trivia or scripture discussions, but can't find the motivation to discuss, learn/teach and listen not ipolitically.
To guard against a Government turning bad you need brainpower more than firepower .
2
It was beyond me that Republicans repeatedly vote against gun safety and control legislation and not feel shame and despair at what they've allowed.
I should have understood that after Sandy Hook, when gun safety legislation was obstructed, that future mass shootings would not have any affect on how Republicans vote. But I was stupid.
Now I fully accept that these men and women have absolutely no thought or care for the safety and welfare of the public. They are vile and rancid beings, devoid of common humanity, ethics or morality. They are cowards, are complicit in these mass shootings, and ought to be charged as accomplices to murder.
I should have understood that after Sandy Hook, when gun safety legislation was obstructed, that future mass shootings would not have any affect on how Republicans vote. But I was stupid.
Now I fully accept that these men and women have absolutely no thought or care for the safety and welfare of the public. They are vile and rancid beings, devoid of common humanity, ethics or morality. They are cowards, are complicit in these mass shootings, and ought to be charged as accomplices to murder.
6
It seems the Republican party may be getting money from the NRA and now ISIS, who knew. This vote was a no brainer. In a nation where rights are routinely taken away to promote security to protect us from terrorists, the Republican party now wraps itself in the constitution throws security to the side and says the second amendment trumps all other rights. At this point they should all be thrown out on their butts...
6
Yes, senators and congresspeople are powerful. I appreciate that. Yet their shameless refusal to either care about citizens or to reject the NRA is disgusting. The political press, broadcast and print, typically merely pander to them, fawning with respect toward these worthless tools of the gun lobby. The politicians who
protect guns the same way they protect job off-shoring are beneath contempt.
protect guns the same way they protect job off-shoring are beneath contempt.
2
The big obstacle to creating laws that match the wishes of the great majority of the American people is still the NRA, the gun manufacturers' tool. I think the whole issue must be approached differently -- campaign finance reform. Take the NRA's money out of the election equation and then the lawmakers have to vote in line with their constituents' wishes, not with the bully lobby.
1
They have time to vote to repel Obamacare, who knows how many time but they can not find the time to work out some type of compromise on something that the vast majority of Americans want?
2
Great job Senate, way to go for the American People's freedoms and agains the left stupid views.
Partisans of gun control will have a civil war if they try to impose their views against the constitution, and they will lose it as they did the first civil war when they defended slavery.
Gun control is a social movement. When its mature things will change drastically. If the Republicans do suffer a major defeat perhaps next term. At that time we need to go much further, removing liability protections from sellers and manufacturers, and controlling ammunition as well. Part of that control includes excise taxes on the sale of guns and ammunition, and perhaps restrictions and reporting above volume and calibre thresholds..
5
The cowards of the GOP and their NRA masters won't ever do the obvious right thing despite even GOP voters being for reform. Get rid of the dead weight obstruct at all costs we are led by a pathological liar narcissist Republicans and maybe some sense will return.
2
Sportsmen have to pay dues to the NRA for insurance purposes in order to use a gun club facility. That fact bumps up the number of national members no matter what an individual sportsman's feelings are about their second amendment rights. The big problem is how much money the spokesmen for the NRA have to spend on lobbying and who decides which American rights are the most important.
I KNEW THE RUPBLICAN-CONTROLLED SENATE WOULD NOT PASS.2934 TONIGHT. Still I called my two Pennsylvanian Senators and said this:"Regarding tonight’s bill on 'gun sales’ background checks: Senator, my wife and I urge you to honor the 2nd amendment’s “well regulated” part of the opening phrase of that one-sentence 2nd amendment — and stand up to the NRA — and vote “YES” on bill S.2934. Such a happy vote could be the start of the inevitable process of 'well regulating' the nation’s gun 'madness” — a beginning process that could send a message to the drenched-in-blood-hands of Wayne LaPierre —the CEO of the NRA— the message that the majority of Americans demand you put the brakes on the nation’s carnage-by-gun. . .a carnage that must stop. For this Korean War Vet anyway — and his wife. So! Let the process begin, Senator. Vote “YES” on S.2934 tonight. Thank you." SHAME! SHAME ON THEM!
5
Inexplicable. Not even on this issue is there goodwill. For the Democrats, it's about winning the next election; for the Republicans, it's about winning the next election. Perhaps the custodians of the crime-scene photographs should send copies to each member of Congress, so they can see the price that some have paid, and others will, for their personal ambitions.
If not kindergartners sitting in class or 49 young adults, then who and how many?
If not kindergartners sitting in class or 49 young adults, then who and how many?
Did you really think for a second that the republicans A cared about the well being of Americans or Brandi would do anything that would jeopardize the NRA money that ensures that even terrorists can boost gun profirs?
Another Godsend to Hillary Clinton.
3
Instead of going out for weekend target practice with their new best buddies, like killer Omar Mateen, imagine if the police in this country would stand up in unison and say NO to assualt weapons and NO to weapons in the hands of the psychologically unhinged.
Do you think for a minute there would be a problem in passing sensible gun legislation?
But, of course, this is wishful thinking because far too many police in our country are too much in love with their weapons, especially if it happens to be an AR-15 handed that was given to them as a gift from our federal government.
Do you think for a minute there would be a problem in passing sensible gun legislation?
But, of course, this is wishful thinking because far too many police in our country are too much in love with their weapons, especially if it happens to be an AR-15 handed that was given to them as a gift from our federal government.
1
It's time to put every GOP senator who voted against these measures on the terror watch list.
Add Wayne LaPierre, too.
Add Wayne LaPierre, too.
23
It's time to vote them out of office.
2
Agreed. And vote them OUT come November. How do they sleep?
3
That is exactly why even Democrats weren't willing to vote for the bills preventing those on the watch lists from purchasing guns. There is no due process associated with being put on the list and there is no established process for getting off the list.
Donald Trump, president, could put all of his political enemies on the terror watch list.
It's interesting that you think every GOP senator who voted against the measures should be on a terror watch list. Your position might represent some sort of logic if you though every Senator who voted against the measures should be on a watch list.
Donald Trump, president, could put all of his political enemies on the terror watch list.
It's interesting that you think every GOP senator who voted against the measures should be on a terror watch list. Your position might represent some sort of logic if you though every Senator who voted against the measures should be on a watch list.
How is this possible? How can Republican politicians be so in the pocket of the NRA and their contributions and those of gun manufacturers and their industry groups that not a single restraint can pass?
Shifting the debate from guns to something else - how about public starts getting interested in term limits for members of congress. If they weren't so worried about making a lifelong career out of politics and satisfying their need to amass personal power, perhaps they would be less beholden to campaign contributions and start acting with some common sense. This would help solve the problem of ALL special interests.
As for the Second Amendment and the right to bear arms ... it is an AMENDMENT. It is not the divine word of God. It was a law written by people, and can be changed by the will of the people.
Shifting the debate from guns to something else - how about public starts getting interested in term limits for members of congress. If they weren't so worried about making a lifelong career out of politics and satisfying their need to amass personal power, perhaps they would be less beholden to campaign contributions and start acting with some common sense. This would help solve the problem of ALL special interests.
As for the Second Amendment and the right to bear arms ... it is an AMENDMENT. It is not the divine word of God. It was a law written by people, and can be changed by the will of the people.
8
Why don't you start a movement to repeal the second amendment and/or replace it with something more to your liking?
Wow, what a surprise!
3
This is the definition of insanity.
9
Don't blame Congress. It's you, the voters' fault. Despite having the names available to you, right in front of your noses as in this last attempt, of all those who will not support gun control, you will still vote them back into office. I don't care what the arguments are on either side of this issue. The only solution is to get rid of those in office who refuse to get it done. And until you do, quit whining, because it will be on you if they're still there after November or the next time they're up for re-election. Do you still admire these guys so much that you're willing to send your kids to school, or go somewhere yourself, with the knowledge that your kids or you just might be killed?
16
True That!
1
Medical error kills 1000 people a day. You are risking your children's lives to a greater extent when you bring them to a doctor and entrust them to the unquestioned judgement and wisdom of people who enter their profession with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt.
Nice thought except for the historical fact that neither democrats or republicans have managed to muster the nerve to pass reasonable national gun control. I suspect it may have something to do with fear of monetary sources and, just maybe, the lurking sense that any major changes would be either unenforceable or, simply unenforced. Just like they are now, unenforced.
Th the usual suspects with their well worn rationale for why you need an Arsenal in your house. I guess happiness is a warm gun.
4
To address gun laws, Trump promised to speak to the NRA. In deciding upon a VP, Clinton is being told that if she picks Warren, her Wall Street donors will leave her. Seriously--do people not see the problem of money in politics? How is it that Bernie Sanders--the only candidate not beholden to big money in ANY issues that affect the public good--is not a nominee. This is just pathetic. Want gun legislation passed? Get money out of politics. Want a progressive in the VP slot or even in the White House? Get money out of politics. Enough is enough!
4
There you go. The GOP again caves to the NRA. What's it going to take? An automatic weapon spraying bullets on the Senate? Nope. It will be Obama's fault.
4
Every congressman and woman who votes against gun control is in the pay of the NRA, which is the chief lobbyist for the gun industry in this country. The sophistry used by these traitors to justify their votes is obscene.
Lastly, Susan Collins should stop pretending she's a moderate Republican: it's an oxymoron. Change your party affiliation or retire. Right now, you're nothing but a slug.
Lastly, Susan Collins should stop pretending she's a moderate Republican: it's an oxymoron. Change your party affiliation or retire. Right now, you're nothing but a slug.
7
No measures should ever be passed in the heat of the emotional aftermath of any tragedy. If there are reasonable changes that can be made to current laws, then make them through a more measured process and during a much more dispassionate time.
Anyone pushing for immediate new laws is merely pushing a preexisting agenda, not some newfound insight.
Anyone pushing for immediate new laws is merely pushing a preexisting agenda, not some newfound insight.
7
So, you are suggesting a waiting period? So are we.
One would think the time lapsed since 1999 and 2012 would be long enough to think straight. Problem is another one of these happens all too soon, so we no longer have the luxury of waiting for more calm.
3
So what? I do indeed have a "preexisting agenda": the long-held desire to make massacres like Sandy Hook, Aurora, and Orlando less frequent. I hold it as a given that universal background checks are an excellent idea. Is it suddenly NOT a good idea because there's been another shooting recently? In more "dispassionate" times our legislators all fly under the radar, collecting their checks from the NRA. Your position makes no logical sense whatsoever.
3
And to think we're paying taxes for this deranged circus of a "government".
18
The failure of the Senate to act on even minimal, reasonable gun measures comes at no surprise. Republicans, and perhaps a few Democrats are bought by the NRA and the gun industry. it will be up to the States to ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines that have no place in civil society as the military points out. Of course, this means voting out Republicans come November.
12
These Senators are despicable. They are oath breakers in that they do not consider what's best for the country. They are cowards afraid to stand their ground and for what they believe. They are swindlers who tax the taxpayer money and benefits but do not perform the job they are suppose to do. The American people want background checks for all gun purchases. 80% are in favor. Why can't Congress get that done? Is the NRA really such a boogy man that a sitting US Senator is afraid of them? DO WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT DONE. PUT IN BACKGROUND CHECKS ON ALL PUCHASES. BAN MILITARY TYPE WEAPONS FROM EVERYDAY USE.
15
Hillary, Dems in Congress, SCOTUS, and sensible Americans need to face facts and admit that the 2nd Amendment is archaic and now doing more harm than good. They need to lead this effort because the Republicans are hanging to it like bulldogs.
There is only one answer: repeal of the 2nd Amendment already!
The filibuster last week was nothing more than impotent grandstanding as long as Republicans can lean on the 2nd Amendment. But Republicans, as well as the Democratic Party, will continue to pretend that the 2nd Amendment was written in stone by God and applies to some pretense of personal defense. It wasn't. It isn't.
America's love affair with guns is an international joke - a deadly joke. It's an embarrassment that does nothing but get Americans killed.
Save American Lives, repeal the 2nd Amendment!
There is only one answer: repeal of the 2nd Amendment already!
The filibuster last week was nothing more than impotent grandstanding as long as Republicans can lean on the 2nd Amendment. But Republicans, as well as the Democratic Party, will continue to pretend that the 2nd Amendment was written in stone by God and applies to some pretense of personal defense. It wasn't. It isn't.
America's love affair with guns is an international joke - a deadly joke. It's an embarrassment that does nothing but get Americans killed.
Save American Lives, repeal the 2nd Amendment!
14
"There is only one answer: repeal of the 2nd Amendment already!"
Maybe, just maybe, it is this kind of talk that causes failure?
Keep using it all the way up to election time, perhaps it will be a winner then...
Maybe, just maybe, it is this kind of talk that causes failure?
Keep using it all the way up to election time, perhaps it will be a winner then...
2
The NRA owns all of the Republicans. Shame on all of them. They all should be voted out of office.
16
Do republicans care how many Americans die as the result of gun violence? Apparently not...
8
Do Democrats care either? You can blame the GOP all you want, but both parties are to blame. Democrats voted down both of the Republican proposals.
1
Crunch some numbers. Rifles are overwhelmingly not used in murders -- it's more common to be *beaten or choked to death with hands and feet*.
If you wanted to address gun violence, you'd consider why it's very much disproportionately in the poor and black urban communities, and what circumstances drive them to believe that violence is an appropriate solution to their problems -- e.g. why they believe it necessary to shoot their rivals, why they don't trust the police to protect them, why they don't see good prospects for legal employment, and so forth.
Or, you can go ahead and blame inanimate objects that are overwhelmingly not used for crime.
If you wanted to address gun violence, you'd consider why it's very much disproportionately in the poor and black urban communities, and what circumstances drive them to believe that violence is an appropriate solution to their problems -- e.g. why they believe it necessary to shoot their rivals, why they don't trust the police to protect them, why they don't see good prospects for legal employment, and so forth.
Or, you can go ahead and blame inanimate objects that are overwhelmingly not used for crime.
Let's all have a moment of silence for the death of rational thought.
13
too late by 30 years
Oh, Feinstein and Boxer went irrational on this issue long ago...
So where is the list of those who voted against these measures--with the amounts of contributions from the NRA? This isn't rocket science. It isn't even "investigative journalism." It's plain "follow the money."
23
The NYT should boldly publish the names of those Senators that voted these measures down on the front page.
2
The Republicans probably wouldn't even change gun laws even if some nutcase gunned one of them down. ( Gabby Gifford must not have been important enough for them).
Well, the families of all those affected know where they stand. The Republicans are a very sick group.
The rest of the civilized world watches them and shakes their heads.
Well, the families of all those affected know where they stand. The Republicans are a very sick group.
The rest of the civilized world watches them and shakes their heads.
16
Shall not be infringed.
If you want to blame someone for gun violence blame the killers. Blame Obama for failure and refusal to work with the NRA and others to implement solutions that would work. Blame our political leaders who create the enemies who are strongly motivated to kill Americans by the dozens. Blame yourselves for failing to act when it is necessary to stop a killer from completing his plans.
If you want to blame someone for gun violence blame the killers. Blame Obama for failure and refusal to work with the NRA and others to implement solutions that would work. Blame our political leaders who create the enemies who are strongly motivated to kill Americans by the dozens. Blame yourselves for failing to act when it is necessary to stop a killer from completing his plans.
4
Blame ourselves? Really? Obama for not working with the NRA?
So it's everybody's fault but yours, huh?
Not possibly your fault because you're sitting there in Louisiana doing the right thing with a bunch of weaponry and a highlighted copy of the constitution.
I'll pass on your suggestions, thank you, and if I see you coming I'll shun you and everyone of your ilk. Disgusting.
So it's everybody's fault but yours, huh?
Not possibly your fault because you're sitting there in Louisiana doing the right thing with a bunch of weaponry and a highlighted copy of the constitution.
I'll pass on your suggestions, thank you, and if I see you coming I'll shun you and everyone of your ilk. Disgusting.
3
I "blame" those who make it so easy for these people to get guns. all the other "problems to blame" would go away if guns were not so easily had.
(I do blame myself for not fighting harder to make gun access more difficult)
(I do blame myself for not fighting harder to make gun access more difficult)
1
Unlike you, I have actually prevented a workplace murder incident by acting at the incipient stages and sidetracking the unbalanced individual who was making dangerous threats with bullets against his co-workers. It's easy for me to see where these incidents could have been prevented because I have done it myself. I actually cared about the people who would have been his victims. But it wasn't easy or without risk.
Radical Islamic terrorists are given a reprieve as Senator boldly affirm their rights under the Second Amendment.
8
Name a single radical Islamist who legally purchased a gun in the United States after being formally charged -- even charged, not just convicted -- of terrorism.
Absurd that this should have controversy of any kind. Enough is enough. We actually need far more protection preventing gun violence than these modest measures that can't get traction in the Senate. How disappointing.
6
Repubs are too busy passing laws for non existent voter fraud, and a women's right to choose than to pass laws to help lower the 90 plus death a day from guns
1
What's clear is it no longer matters how high the body count is or who the victims are; the republicans simply do not care about the murder of citizens by firearm. What they tacitly demand is that we now accept mass shootings and the resulting body counts as part of the fabric of social life in this country. Surely, if this isn't a testament to the perversity, decadence and corruption of the republican party, then nothing is.
43
I am, once again, appalled. Is there not a small trace of decency amongst our elected "leaders"? What kind of universe do they live in?
19
One where nonsensical arguments dripping with emotion don't automatically overcome facts and law?
We should allow guns to be carried into Congressional offices and meeting places. If the Senators and Representatives feel insecure, they could pack their guns. Then they would have the same level of security they are willing to extend to the American public.
30
The only way to prevail is vote democrat no matter if you like person or not. The Republicans are morally bankrupt and do not care about the safety of Americans.
3
The Capitol is protected by a substantial police force, and has limited access points that can be readily secured, and which doesn't have vast numbers of strangers wandering through on a daily basis. That's a wildly different scenario from most of us.
Cute fallacy, though.
Cute fallacy, though.
This is heartbreaking news..I wonder if members of the senate can be impeached..this is a national crisis and should be handled now
218
Yes Nathan, members of the Senate and the House can be effectively impeached - it's done by voting them out of office. But if the majority who favor sensible gun laws don't bother to vote both this November and especially in the 2018 midterm elections, then this senseless slaughter of innocent Americans will continue. And those who don't bother to impeach NRA-funded legislators with their vote will again want to point the self-righteous finger of blame at those responsible for the next inevitable massacre. But before you look at Congress, look in the mirror.
The republicans in the Senate have just given the entire country a slap in the face, and an crystal-clear picture of exactly who they take their "orders" from--and it's NOT the people who elected them.
24 republican Senators are up for re-election this year. Let us ALL hope the constituents of these NRA toadies remember what they did today, and FINALLY throw them out of office in November.
24 republican Senators are up for re-election this year. Let us ALL hope the constituents of these NRA toadies remember what they did today, and FINALLY throw them out of office in November.
If you care about this slaughter enough to want to stop it, become a one- issue voter and vote the Republicans, all of them, out of office.
I arrived outside the Senate side of the Capitol at about 5pm today, and was surprised there was not more of a presence of media and activists. There were about four TV cameras and a group of five progun control citizens holding signs.
Perhaps everyone on both sides knew that thinking and reasoning would triumph over emotions and feelings.
The Republic lives on, but a bit stronger now after the votes than before.
Perhaps everyone on both sides knew that thinking and reasoning would triumph over emotions and feelings.
The Republic lives on, but a bit stronger now after the votes than before.
1
1) Overturn Citizens United.
2) Declare the NRA a domestic terrorist organization and seize their assets.
3) Vote the GOP out of office.
2) Declare the NRA a domestic terrorist organization and seize their assets.
3) Vote the GOP out of office.
26
Bravo!
4
You sound well-adjusted, rational, and worth listening to.
2
I could not have less respect for an organized group of people than I have for the US Senate on this day. What a bunch of spineless empty suits. How they have the gall to collect a paycheck each month is a beyond comprehension.
12
SENATE: Pathetic, I hope all of you up for re-election in November are gone.
17
Where do we go to find the roll call votes, please, just to be sure how our Senators voted?
9
Go to "senate.gov" website, click on 'votes' on the left side, then on 'detailed session list' to see the most recent votes, by date. If you click on one you will see the votes yea/nay of each senator.
1
Ok, so we wait until we have yet another mass shooting, and then the senate can play charades again, wash its hands and say "we tried".
What a pathetic joke of a way to run a country.
What a pathetic joke of a way to run a country.
13
Don't worry. They'll be silent for a moment and pray after the next mass shooting. Cause that's doing a whole lot for us.
4
So anyone who is banned from buying a gun such as a Felon, Mentally Certified , Criminal, illegal Immigrant and Budding Terrorist visiting on a Tourist Visa know exactly where to buy a gun to avoid any background checks...just buy a gun off the Internet or at a gun show or private seller...So Easy!
Thanks Congress! Once again you have made it so simple for All the wrong people to avoid even the logical basic requirement of a background Check before they can purchase a gun.
Parking infringements and going over the speed limit are enforced with greater determination,, enforcement personnel and statutes than the ability or resources put to in any way stopping someone from murdering people for whatever depraved or faulty reasoning /justification they have the desire to do so.
And you make their desire so much easier to commit.
Time and Time again, despite nothing to lose by passing this law but the possibly many lives might be saved if you did.
Is that not reason enough??
Thanks Congress! Once again you have made it so simple for All the wrong people to avoid even the logical basic requirement of a background Check before they can purchase a gun.
Parking infringements and going over the speed limit are enforced with greater determination,, enforcement personnel and statutes than the ability or resources put to in any way stopping someone from murdering people for whatever depraved or faulty reasoning /justification they have the desire to do so.
And you make their desire so much easier to commit.
Time and Time again, despite nothing to lose by passing this law but the possibly many lives might be saved if you did.
Is that not reason enough??
8
Take down the metal detectors at the doors of the House and Senate office buildings; take down the metal detectors that protect the Capitol. Make members of Congress vulnerable, as we are vulnerable. And vote again.
54
I'll be voting in November. Get Ron Johnson OUT. I'll be voting http://russfeingold.com
2
And allow these weapons to be brought into NRA conventions. The thought is enthralling.
Congress does not deserve to work in a building outfitted with metal detectors.
25
There really is only one word.
Shame.
Shame.
18
I'm glad that the Senate is more concerned that people on the terrorist watch list are "afforded due process" then preventing same said people from obtaining lethal weapons. It's good to know where their priorities are.
17
We need to vote out these senators who oppose even commonsense measures, some of which even (the otherwise abhorring) NRA-endorsed Trump favors. I am also in favor of executive action on gun safety while the congress figures things out -- the Second Amendment says right to arms by militia, it does not say "automatic weapons" by "individuals". No right is unlimited. Let these senators sue to have this action overturned.
8
Times like these, I wish this was not a family newspaper.
9
What a disgrace to our nation.
25
This is an outrage. Our government is so dysfunctional that we can't even agree provisions concerning assault rifles, and act to protect our children. Britain and other countries remain baffled that America shows such promise and leadership, and yet is stunningly inept at dealing with guns and protecting its children. I struggle to explain this, as an American living abroad. Indeed, there can be no explanation but egoism, greed and a callous disregard for our fellow man (and woman).
259
How did French gun control work in Paris?
You must realize that we have no government. We have officials directed by the NRA, Grover Norquist and the large corporations. People have no role. They just authenticate this deception by voting making the uninitiated and the naive think that they participated in a democratic process.
Hows it working in Chicago?
If you were for some unkowable reason thinking of voting for any Republicans for congress this year, here is yet another reminder of how foolish that idea is.
Dumping trump like the sleazy unqualified man child he is is one thing, but President Clinton still will need a congress to work with.
Dumping trump like the sleazy unqualified man child he is is one thing, but President Clinton still will need a congress to work with.
6
The senselessness of the ongoing tragedies is only matched by the ongoing senselessness of this political farce, which is now, and has been for some time, nothing more than pointlessness pantomime.
4
Disappointing, but unsurprising. Closing the gun show loophole and requiring background checks on absolutely every transferee of a gun is an absolute necessity. 90% of the American public supports background checks. The NRA is an industry lobbyist and an utter disgrace.
13
In the wake of 9/11 our country unified behind the common cause of fighting terrorism. In the wake of Orlando, San Bernandino, Charleston, Newtown, Aurora, Columbine we have done nothing productive and fought among ourselves with no positive results to show.
Why are we acting differently based on external and internal threats? Our internal threats kill more Americans each year than extremist terrorism. There's no point in Democrats attacking Republicans, and no point for Republicans to be creating false arguments about the Second Amendment. We need better laws.
We are our own worst enemy, and that sort of nonsense always comes back around.
Why are we acting differently based on external and internal threats? Our internal threats kill more Americans each year than extremist terrorism. There's no point in Democrats attacking Republicans, and no point for Republicans to be creating false arguments about the Second Amendment. We need better laws.
We are our own worst enemy, and that sort of nonsense always comes back around.
8
Thank you Senators who voted these anti-American measures down. We cannot let Islamic terrorists dictate our laws and freedoms.
1
This is not just terrorist 's from overseas. These are home grown white Christian men killing people in mass shootings. I'm more afraid of the white male with a gun then I am of a Middle Eastern Religion!Having served and retired from the USAF and served in Saudi during the Gulf War I do know a few things about that part of the world. It's time for all of the Republicans to go. This includes U.S Senator's ,Representatives , Governors and State Senator's and Representatives need to be voted out. These people are all bought and paid for by NRA dark money. Vote them out in the elections that they are in!
Slather your political bread and butter with immoral votes against regulating guns, GOP. No matter how many die, you'll belly up to the gun lobby pork-a-thon even if it costs you one of your own children.
Money. Power. Immorality.
But you'll still have to look your Maker in the eye. Will it have been worth it when your Maker turns His head away?
Money. Power. Immorality.
But you'll still have to look your Maker in the eye. Will it have been worth it when your Maker turns His head away?
11
This is shocking news. I fully support FK of NY in this regard. Further public also has the right to live a decent life. Corner Politicians.
3
Shame on the SENATE!! Listen to the Citizens of the United States and do the right thing! Ban Assault Weapons and SWEEP THE SENATE in November!
41
When will it be enough? When will the Republicans finally act? How is it even possible that they want terrorists to be able to easily buy semi-automatic assault weapons. I am stunned by their lack of responsibility. Laws don't protect everyone, not always, but these proposals were a reasonable starting point, and would have provided some minimal protections. The Republicans just proved that they stand with terrorists and criminals. Who will protect the rights of school children, people attending a movie, or innocent people at a nightclub? Don't forget this when you vote in November.
64
Republicans did act... They introduced 2 bills but Democrats blocked them. And the Republicans defeated their 2 bills. A lot of the proposed legislation was similar for both parties. Can't say it's solely the Republicans fault when Democrats voted down their bills. Both parties are to blame. It's an outrage. They should have collaborated and drafted something that would pass. But our Congress isn't interested in getting things done. They only care about fighting and grandstanding- skewing the other party.
2
It will continue as long as the government refuses to act on the problems. The government refuse to allow existing laws to work. From the NICS background system fails for reasons only the government can fix. When the system allows a threat to obtain approval, it is because of failure of the people who have information that should be entered, did not do so. The law abiding citizens have no control over it. They are just complying with the law to purchase a firearm legally. The government refuses to acquire the information. They are the only ones who can. If a person who knows they will not pass a background check, they don't do it. It is illegal but the government refuses to deal with illegal transactions. The government even breaks the law intentionally as in Fast & Furious. If a person is rejected, they cannot purchase the firearm legally. Even though the government is required to investigate and correct the error when requested to do so. They have stopped doing it at all.
The government insists on blaming law abiding firearm owners. They are not the ones committing the violence. The law abiding are just seeking to comply with the law to acquire a firearm. The government refuses to allow that to happen. Pressure the government to do their job.
The government insists on blaming law abiding firearm owners. They are not the ones committing the violence. The law abiding are just seeking to comply with the law to acquire a firearm. The government refuses to allow that to happen. Pressure the government to do their job.
1
Perhaps the government should be more careful who it puts on its "secret" no fly list. It would appear that anyone can be put on this list by mistake or outright malice. Anyone put on this list in error should have the right to appeal and if that appeal is upheld, should at a minimum receive reimbursement for their legal expenses and at least $20,000 tax free apology from the FBI. The unelected bureaucrats who manage this list should be punished by a loss of their jobs and pensions if they make too many mistakes.
1
How many members does the NRA actually have?
7
About 4.5 million.
2
I think it may have more to do with how much money and ability to persuade those who are in power and wish to stay there.
2
Out of what, 450 million Americans?
1
Although this is no surprise, it still stings to see it happen again. Yet it should be brought to the legislative branch over and over again. While I agree with some reader's comments about making this go to the state level, it won't begin the process of making the US become less of a joke in the eyes of terrorist nations as well as those who are killed everyday by accidental or deliberate gun shots in our country.
15
Have you considered mental health intervention for your paranoia?
We would have to go a long way to catch up with the terrorist carnage with bombs. Just wait until that become standard operations in our country.
We would have to go a long way to catch up with the terrorist carnage with bombs. Just wait until that become standard operations in our country.
The Tsarnaev brothers used bombs and despite mass carnage, only managed to kill 3 people. Had they opened fire with automatic weapons they would have mown down dozens, like Mateen did in Orlando.
Regardless, why defend one weapon of mass destruction over another? It's a convenient delusion to think that bombs are somehow 'better' and that bombs make the threat of gun violence somehow less important.
Regardless, why defend one weapon of mass destruction over another? It's a convenient delusion to think that bombs are somehow 'better' and that bombs make the threat of gun violence somehow less important.
Anyone who claims to need an assault rifle for home protection is delusional. If you need 30 rounds to repel an intruder in your house, you don't need an AR-15, you need target practice.
246
Nobody has a legal assault rifle at home. What is your concern?
3
An AR15 is not an assault rifle. Before you're allowed to come to the table and join the discussion, you need to have at least a basic understanding of firearms ... which you patently do not.
3
He does, however, have a very good understanding of the fact that if you need 30 bullets to hit someone at that close of a range then you are toast anyways.
4
Well, that was fun. Thanks for trying anyway Senate! We can try again in a couple months, maybe sooner. Meanwhile, the GOP and its NRA bosses keep blood on their hands, trading innocent American lives for fantasies about a need for guns that simply does not exist.
72
They have to get around the due process issue. Anyone denied the right to buy a gun should be able to show up in court with his team of lawyers and argue his case. If the government doesn't want to say why they suspect him, then they will lose.
2
The government should also have to pay all legal bills and offer at least a $20,000 compensation if they can not prove their case.
2
Hard to defend since the vast majority of citizens support sane (which in my mind is minimal) gun control. Our representatives are only representing the manufacturers and the gun lobby, not the citizenry.
17
I will be a two-issue voter this November:
(1) climate change
(2) gun control
Anyone not supporting serious measures to combat these society alerting problems will not receive an ounce of my effort, support, or money.
(1) climate change
(2) gun control
Anyone not supporting serious measures to combat these society alerting problems will not receive an ounce of my effort, support, or money.
556
Sorry to burst your bubble, Chris, but it seems I'll be canceling you out.
2
Your perspective is from San Francisco, the least representative electorate of any major city in the USA. I hope you are correct, but doubt you are. More likely is Hillary as president, but continued Republican majorities in the House and Senate. That means more climate change denial and more guns everywhere.
1
Well then your choice is pretty easy.
No surprise here. We hear so much complaining from the right about political correctness, but there's no PC like gun PC.
12
Want to carry a gun into the Congressional Office Buildings? You can't because members of Congress, including the majority Republicans, have made sure that it is illegal and you'll be subject to arrest.
Want to purchase a gun and then take it into an elementary school, a theater, a clinic, a post office, a college campus, a coffee shop, etc? That's ok, because there are probably few members of Congress in those venues so they don't consider it a threat to their wellbeing.
What really angers me about the gun safety issue is the shear and blatant hypocracy of the Republicans in Congress, who only support what is beneficial to themselves as individuals and not the nation as a whole. Write your Congressional representative and ask them to introduce legislation to allow anyone to carry a firearm into the Congressional offices and you'll probably experience radio silence, or a look of total bafflement.
Want to purchase a gun and then take it into an elementary school, a theater, a clinic, a post office, a college campus, a coffee shop, etc? That's ok, because there are probably few members of Congress in those venues so they don't consider it a threat to their wellbeing.
What really angers me about the gun safety issue is the shear and blatant hypocracy of the Republicans in Congress, who only support what is beneficial to themselves as individuals and not the nation as a whole. Write your Congressional representative and ask them to introduce legislation to allow anyone to carry a firearm into the Congressional offices and you'll probably experience radio silence, or a look of total bafflement.
162
Shame on this once great body.
24
If significant gun law modification and/or a clarifying rewrite of the second amendment was submitted to the country in the form of a national referendum, maybe 70-75% of those who voted would support it. So much for our representative form of government. Anyone who has any further questions about who runs the show inside the Beltway can stop worrying.
11
Money out of politics. Reverse Citizens United.
28
The title of the article should be:
"Senate Embraces Gun Violence, Mass Shootings and Domestic Terrorism."
There are more mass shootings in the U.S. than there are in countries which are at war.
"Senate Embraces Gun Violence, Mass Shootings and Domestic Terrorism."
There are more mass shootings in the U.S. than there are in countries which are at war.
58
A psychotic child of a dysfunctional Afghan family who had been invited to immigrate to the US during the ill-advised war in their home country has claimed to be an Islamic soldier in his slaughter of fun lovers in a LGBT nightclub.
And liberals are demanding Congress legislate against the shooter's choice of primary instrument of death, so that real Americans cannot buy such a rifle for hunting large game, competitive shooting and home and self defense.
The rifle is a semi-automatic, the same functional mechanism as many conventional hunting rifles. The distinction is that the rifle that shot night clubbers in Orlando appears as a fully-automatic military model, but is not.
Why must the Second Amendment rights of native born Americans such as myself -- whose family landed on the shores of New York in 1710 -- be prohibited by the insane outreach of a person whose parents who should never have been admitted to America in the first place?
As to the Second Amendment, those founders who drafted and adopted it were fairly fearful of a central government gone tyrannical. For that was the dictatorial ogre they had fought for a decade.
Americans today apparently believe that their central government cannot replicate that of George III (Lois Lerner anyone?) and discount the need for firearms to defend themselves against central oppression. Human memories are short within an individual's lifetime; memories are defunct for those who have not studied history.
And liberals are demanding Congress legislate against the shooter's choice of primary instrument of death, so that real Americans cannot buy such a rifle for hunting large game, competitive shooting and home and self defense.
The rifle is a semi-automatic, the same functional mechanism as many conventional hunting rifles. The distinction is that the rifle that shot night clubbers in Orlando appears as a fully-automatic military model, but is not.
Why must the Second Amendment rights of native born Americans such as myself -- whose family landed on the shores of New York in 1710 -- be prohibited by the insane outreach of a person whose parents who should never have been admitted to America in the first place?
As to the Second Amendment, those founders who drafted and adopted it were fairly fearful of a central government gone tyrannical. For that was the dictatorial ogre they had fought for a decade.
Americans today apparently believe that their central government cannot replicate that of George III (Lois Lerner anyone?) and discount the need for firearms to defend themselves against central oppression. Human memories are short within an individual's lifetime; memories are defunct for those who have not studied history.
6
The shooter in Orlando was as natural born a US citizen as you. Last time i looked at a map, New York was part of these United States. Your argument makes no sense.
3
As a fellow hunter, I left the NRA many years ago, the NRA's perverse interpretation of the 2nd amendment has led this country down a public safety and health issue that needs to be addressed immediately - our founding fathers didn't intend for the daily carnage this country goes through week in and week out (48 people were shot during the 15 hour filibuster on gun control) My daughters kindergarten class now practices "active shooter" drills. (She was raised most of her life in East Africa - she didn't have those drills at her schools there) If that doesn't say it all about the need for gun control in this country I don't know what does.
7
You've been watching too many survivalist fantasy movies, Mr. Nieman. How long do you think you'd hold out against military forces led by a "tyrannical central government?"
Meanwhile, 13,286 men, women and children were killed by gun violence last year...
And if your family's arrival in 1710 gives you special rights as a "native born American," then we all better defer to the real native born Americans who inhabited this land many thousands of years before any of us got here.
Meanwhile, 13,286 men, women and children were killed by gun violence last year...
And if your family's arrival in 1710 gives you special rights as a "native born American," then we all better defer to the real native born Americans who inhabited this land many thousands of years before any of us got here.
7
Both sides are guilty. Both sides want this for a campaign issue. Democrats could have supported the Republican measure as a stop-gap until the election (which Clinton is almost certain to win), and then revisit the issue later.
A legitimate and viable third political party is looking better and better every day.
A legitimate and viable third political party is looking better and better every day.
1
No one I know hunts deer with an assault rifle but plenty of people hunt humans with them. If members of Congress are so enamored with guns, then get rid of the metal detectors and let people bring them into the halls of Congress. I'm sure the "good guy with a gun" will protect them. Cowards. Follow the money. It leads straight to the NRA.
79
I see them every hunting season.
2
No one I know uses an assault rifle to hunt either. They're not available.
Which rifle do your hunter acquaintances use? Everyone here seems focused on the AR-15 platform, which is a general-purpose rifle platform able to be configured for doing almost anything that can be done with a rifle, the notable exception being war fighting. Google "AR-15 hunting" and you'll be introduced to thousands of people hunting with them.
I'm genuinely curious if anyone knows anyone that owns a automatic rifle.
Which rifle do your hunter acquaintances use? Everyone here seems focused on the AR-15 platform, which is a general-purpose rifle platform able to be configured for doing almost anything that can be done with a rifle, the notable exception being war fighting. Google "AR-15 hunting" and you'll be introduced to thousands of people hunting with them.
I'm genuinely curious if anyone knows anyone that owns a automatic rifle.
Plenty? No.
More people were killed with hands and feet -- plain old beating and choking -- than with rifles of any kind, according to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports stats for 2014. *Many* more murder victims were stabbed or slashed to death with blades, than with rifles of any kind.
The *vast* majority of murders involving guns, involve pistols -- and generally inexpensive extremely basic ones, because most of the people doing the murdering aren't exactly from the upper tiers of socioeconomic status.
More people were killed with hands and feet -- plain old beating and choking -- than with rifles of any kind, according to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports stats for 2014. *Many* more murder victims were stabbed or slashed to death with blades, than with rifles of any kind.
The *vast* majority of murders involving guns, involve pistols -- and generally inexpensive extremely basic ones, because most of the people doing the murdering aren't exactly from the upper tiers of socioeconomic status.
1
please create links to the roll-call votes so we can see how each senator voted. they need to be held accountable and get citizen response asap.
16
For those asking what the vote was: The only Republican who voted for the two bills written by Democrats (1. to keep people on terrorism watch list and no fly list from buying guns and 2. to require background checks at gun shows) was Senator Kirk from Illinois. All other Republicans voted against it. The two Republican bills would not curtail gun sales, they were a sham but they did not pass either because some Republicans voted against them too; most Democratic Senators voted against them because they were not going to be effective but would allow Republicans to say they did something about it, even though it was NOT what polls say the vast majority of people want or what is rational -- read analysis about this in other newspapers since this article did not tell you anything much about it.
Really past time for anyone who loves their children and country to vote for Democrats for Congress.
28
I don't have enough words to express my fury at this failure to heed the voice of the people, the cries of the bereaved and the dictates of common sense.
58
Is it within American law to start suing our Senators and Congressman? It's time we make the financial pain of supporting the NRA bigger than ignoring the safety of citizens.
25
This is stunning. If ever there was a time for the public to rise up and take to the streets in protest, this would be the time. The nerve of these senators to vote down this proposal. They should all be thrown out of office.
267
Yes, they should be thrown out of office - but the same one continue to be returned to office. How about WE should throw them out, not just should.
I gave up when Congress failed to act after a classroom of young children was slaughtered. If that was not enough to make change happen, I can't think of any mass shooting that will. The only way change will happen is by voting out as many Republicans as possible.
"[E]ven as the nation remains divided on the issue." No, the nation is not divided on the issue. I believe 90% of Americans or more support responsible regulations that keep guns away from terrorists and the mentally ill. Probably a higher percent than believe that the Earth is round, or that Neil Armstrong landed on the Moon.
124
Or so they tell pollsters.
Then at least a third of 'em vote GOP and another third (or more) of 'em can't be bothered to vote at all.
Then at least a third of 'em vote GOP and another third (or more) of 'em can't be bothered to vote at all.
1
I am disappointed that the Democrats did not support the 72 hours review period. Why? For the reasons that: firstly, it is NOT toothless; secondly, it is a step in the correct direction; thirdly, Democrats must now share in the blame if a no fly suspect massacre a night club with a recently purchased firearm.
Are any Democrats serious about keeping arms out of the hand of terrorists? Or is it the American patriots that worry Democrats.
Are any Democrats serious about keeping arms out of the hand of terrorists? Or is it the American patriots that worry Democrats.
2
Cornyn's bill was impractical because it's unrealistic to expect a complex investigation to be accomplished within 72 hours.
6
I'd like to see bipartisan support for Susan Collins' proposed compromise legislation. Enough with the election year posturing. If Congress can't do something constructive in the wake of worst mass killing in U.S. history, then shame on the whole lot of them.
18
Time to change the Congress.
9
"As the votes were held, families of gun violence victims looked on from the Senate chamber."
Why, I sure hope the N.R.A. had some gun owners up there, too.
Why, I sure hope the N.R.A. had some gun owners up there, too.
1
Why, most gun owners support these changes.
The NRA doesn't have to watch from the gallery...they're out on the Senate floor.
9
The votes in the Senate are now in.
None of the four proposals were passed.
Republicans:
National Rifle Association:
The future slaughters are all on your hands.
What a shameful day for this country.
None of the four proposals were passed.
Republicans:
National Rifle Association:
The future slaughters are all on your hands.
What a shameful day for this country.
55
They have no shame and they simply do not care how many more innocent people die.
9
The NRA supported one of the bills. The Republicans had 2 bills the Democrats shot down. So are Democrats not to blame too ? Both parties are to blame.
Sorry, T Muller, I'm not buying that equivalency. Perhaps, though doubtful, I would have bought it a decade ago, but when in the Bush Era the assault rifle ban was allowed to expire, then it became a Republican agenda.
No person in this country should or needs to own an assault rifle. It has one purpose only: shooting people, innocent people, including little children.
The blood goes on the Republican account.
You can thank George "I want to be a War President" Bush.
No false equivalency.
Own it.
No person in this country should or needs to own an assault rifle. It has one purpose only: shooting people, innocent people, including little children.
The blood goes on the Republican account.
You can thank George "I want to be a War President" Bush.
No false equivalency.
Own it.
2
I just heard that all four measures failed. Given the 70%+ bipartisan public support for better regulation, does Congress's behavior translate as a tyranny of a minority?
There is long term hope, given some tendency of the SCOTUS to let stand state restrictions on assault weapons. Otherwise, unless obstructionists can be voted out, there is little chance that federal Republican representatives will listen to cries for help.
There is long term hope, given some tendency of the SCOTUS to let stand state restrictions on assault weapons. Otherwise, unless obstructionists can be voted out, there is little chance that federal Republican representatives will listen to cries for help.
15
In a full display of discouraging ignorance, Florida gun sales have spiked again after the massacre in Orlando. This is in response to fear "the government is going to take guns away." Sigh.....
17
Can anyone explain how the president uses an act of terrorism to be used to persecute law abiding citizens who did not commit the Orlando violence? They weren't there and didn't contribute to it. Yet a terrorist was able to enter a gun free zone unnoticed and begin killing people.
After negotiations with with SWAT, Mateen commenced killing more than he had at first. Negotiation with terrorists never work. NEVER.
One has to wonder. Pulse is a gun free zone. How would one not notice a person carrying a rifle into a place that is a Gun Free Zone. If someone walked in wearing a gorilla suit and carrying a stalk of bananas. A rifle cannot effectively be concealed.
What went wrong is not the fault or failure of law abiding citizens.
After negotiations with with SWAT, Mateen commenced killing more than he had at first. Negotiation with terrorists never work. NEVER.
One has to wonder. Pulse is a gun free zone. How would one not notice a person carrying a rifle into a place that is a Gun Free Zone. If someone walked in wearing a gorilla suit and carrying a stalk of bananas. A rifle cannot effectively be concealed.
What went wrong is not the fault or failure of law abiding citizens.
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
The poorly written Second Amendment is talking about militias that are responsible for the security of the state. Diagram the sentence. Oh if my ninth grade English teacher Mrs. Lowe--who had us diagramming sentences about 25% of class time--were only alive to deconstruct the meaning of this sentence.
But regardless of the intentional misinterpreation (and the dreadful lethal consequences of the misinterpretation of the Second Amendment) to please and up the profits of the largely invisible gun manufacturers, the amendment says nothing about not being able to REGULATE the purchase, ownership, and use of "arms."
Government regulation is obviously necessary to protect the safety of the American people in all kinds of areas. Of course, we would not need government regulation if people behaved responsibly, and where they don't, government needs to reluctantly step in.
Look at the gun statistics and horrendous mass shootings in this country, compared to other nations with reasonable gun laws. The time is long overdue for the government to step in and adopt common sense regulation on the sale and use of guns. And despite what the NRA says, this does not mean the government is coming to confiscate your guns and your manhood.
"No G.D. common sense," as my grandmother used to say.
The poorly written Second Amendment is talking about militias that are responsible for the security of the state. Diagram the sentence. Oh if my ninth grade English teacher Mrs. Lowe--who had us diagramming sentences about 25% of class time--were only alive to deconstruct the meaning of this sentence.
But regardless of the intentional misinterpreation (and the dreadful lethal consequences of the misinterpretation of the Second Amendment) to please and up the profits of the largely invisible gun manufacturers, the amendment says nothing about not being able to REGULATE the purchase, ownership, and use of "arms."
Government regulation is obviously necessary to protect the safety of the American people in all kinds of areas. Of course, we would not need government regulation if people behaved responsibly, and where they don't, government needs to reluctantly step in.
Look at the gun statistics and horrendous mass shootings in this country, compared to other nations with reasonable gun laws. The time is long overdue for the government to step in and adopt common sense regulation on the sale and use of guns. And despite what the NRA says, this does not mean the government is coming to confiscate your guns and your manhood.
"No G.D. common sense," as my grandmother used to say.
53
There is no difference between infringement and regulate in the way the federal government denies access to someone for an arbitrary reason. The Constitution doesn't allow arbitrariness when it comes to rights. You'd holler if you were arrested and held without charge and no bail hearing.
2
The Second Amendment is extraordinarily well written as is the entire U. S. Constitution. I am going to recommend that you study how the Second Amendment came into existence. Learn who was involved. Read the correspondence and arguments of the time. Learn the intent of the Founding Fathers. It is the intent that overrides all.
3
pb: "But regardless of the intentional misinterpreation (and the dreadful lethal consequences of the misinterpretation of the Second Amendment) to please and up the profits of the largely invisible gun manufacturers, the amendment says nothing about not being able to REGULATE the purchase, ownership, and use of 'arms.'"
Actually, the words "well regulated militia" are there in straightforward English. This amendment wasn't about individuals protecting themselves against their government! There was no army, no federal defense against enemies foreign or domestic. The Founders thought the people should be able to field a militia in defense of their new country. Privately owned firearms aren't even mentioned and are therefore NOT covered in the Second Amendment.
Actually, the words "well regulated militia" are there in straightforward English. This amendment wasn't about individuals protecting themselves against their government! There was no army, no federal defense against enemies foreign or domestic. The Founders thought the people should be able to field a militia in defense of their new country. Privately owned firearms aren't even mentioned and are therefore NOT covered in the Second Amendment.
1
The way I look at this is: Do you want to allow potential terrorists to purchase assault weapons? It seems that Republicans will have a hard time explaining to voters that they so value their interpretation of the second amendment that suspected terrorists should have access to these weapons of mass murder. Hopefully, there will be enough who are worried and vulnerable like Kelly Ayotte in New Hampshire, Rob Portman in Ohio, Pat Toomey in Pennsylvania among others to provide enough votes to finally close some serious loopholes. If not, the Democrats will be handed a winning issue this fall if they'll only campaign on it for once.
16
I was just in the dentist's office watching Cornyn of Texas blame Obama for Orlando.
6
Anyone who knows something about firearms and US gun laws, know terrorists are not legally buying assault weapons in America. Assault weapons are nearly impossible to get in the US even by the most law abiding. Those who are allowed to do so spends much time and money to do so. Weapons legally obtained are rarely, if ever, used in any kind of crime. It is just to difficult to get legally.
I submit, if the assault weapons are acquired illegally, why isn't that a focus of attention? Might it draw attention to the government and Fast & Furious?
Ignorance of firearms and law are the reason gun control will never work. It never addresses any real problems. The greatest problem of all is the absolute failure of government to enforce gun laws, or do it selectively.
I submit, if the assault weapons are acquired illegally, why isn't that a focus of attention? Might it draw attention to the government and Fast & Furious?
Ignorance of firearms and law are the reason gun control will never work. It never addresses any real problems. The greatest problem of all is the absolute failure of government to enforce gun laws, or do it selectively.
2
Orlando Pulse nightclub shooter Omar Mateen purchased his assault weapon and handgun legally. This after telling co-workers he had links to terrorist organizations and was interviewed by the FBI twice. Speaking of ignorance.
10
There ought to be bipartisan support for Susan Collins' bill. It's a compromise, but it's also a step forward. Incremental progress represents progress.
5
No assault rifles, and no high-capacity magazines. Period.
Even soldiers like McChrystal and Wilkerson are calling for an assault weapons ban. Time to stop the madness.
Even soldiers like McChrystal and Wilkerson are calling for an assault weapons ban. Time to stop the madness.
143
What is an assault rifle? At what number of cartridges or shells does high capacity magazine start?
1
Let's give the AR15 and similar assault type guns available for sale the proper name. They are "Killing Machines" , they have no other function, so let's call them by their proper name. Killing Machines!
26
My ARs must be defective.
Of course, anyone who used AR and "assault type gun" has absolutely no clue about firearms.
Of course, anyone who used AR and "assault type gun" has absolutely no clue about firearms.
2
Millions of 'em are sold. Very few of them are used for shooting people. Are the rest of the owners doing it wrong?
Or are you willfully slandering millions of people?
Or are you willfully slandering millions of people?
3
Let's reduce this to the bottom line and a simple reality : Congress does not respect human life and, as in the past, will do nothing to protect or save lives.
22
Your bottom line may be different than others.
You missed a huge issue which as someone who loathes guns I am dispirited to have to raise: Does the law being debated pass constitutional muster.
First I have to say that I agree wholeheartedly with those who think the 2nd Amendment was only intended to allow limited arms for the formation of a militia and would never protect handguns, let alone assault weapons. The problem is that the United States Supreme Court did not so agree.
It held that handguns were protected under the 2nd Amendment for individual use in order to protect citizens in their homes for domestic and other crimes. Sigh....I think they were wrong wrong wrong. But that is irrelevant.
We must live with the law set by the Supreme Court. However, as the court itself conceded it left open a lot of questions as to what sort of regulations one could have over guns. The Second Circuit found that Assault Weapons WERE protected under the 2nd Amendment (I think they are wrong but again, that matters not at all). HOWEVER the Second Circuit also held that while protected the Connecticut regulations of Assault Weapons were (for the most part) proper under the 2nd Amendment.
What you SHOULD have said was the first "Key Question" here was "Does the law being debated conform with the 2nd Amendment" and should have taken into account the reasoning of the 2nd Circuit that SCOTUS refused to review today.
Following the
First I have to say that I agree wholeheartedly with those who think the 2nd Amendment was only intended to allow limited arms for the formation of a militia and would never protect handguns, let alone assault weapons. The problem is that the United States Supreme Court did not so agree.
It held that handguns were protected under the 2nd Amendment for individual use in order to protect citizens in their homes for domestic and other crimes. Sigh....I think they were wrong wrong wrong. But that is irrelevant.
We must live with the law set by the Supreme Court. However, as the court itself conceded it left open a lot of questions as to what sort of regulations one could have over guns. The Second Circuit found that Assault Weapons WERE protected under the 2nd Amendment (I think they are wrong but again, that matters not at all). HOWEVER the Second Circuit also held that while protected the Connecticut regulations of Assault Weapons were (for the most part) proper under the 2nd Amendment.
What you SHOULD have said was the first "Key Question" here was "Does the law being debated conform with the 2nd Amendment" and should have taken into account the reasoning of the 2nd Circuit that SCOTUS refused to review today.
Following the
5
AJ,
Whether any new law conforms with the Constitution is up to the NEW Supreme Court to decide. There is no requirement to conform with past perverted descisions by SCOTUS.
Whether any new law conforms with the Constitution is up to the NEW Supreme Court to decide. There is no requirement to conform with past perverted descisions by SCOTUS.
8
While a new Supreme Court could change the law, principles of Stare Decisis urge them not to and SCOTUS tends to hew to this principle even when they feel the decision was not correct. Better to evaluate under current 2nd Amendment law.
1
SCOTUS completely trashed stare decisis precedent on this subject when it "imagineered" the Heller decision.
That ship has sailed.
That ship has sailed.
1
Only Ms. Steinhauer could write 'the nation remains divided" on the issue of gun control, while simultaneously noting 92% of US favors background checks on all gun buyers, 78% favor a national database of gun sales and 63% favor a ban on high capacity magazines. Ms. Steinhauer should go back to her day job as a spokesperson for the NRA, and take a basic math class while she's at it.
134
We can never have a reasonable discussion of which weapons are appropriate for civilians to own, and which are not--when one side cries out "you are taking ways all my guns--and how will I defend my family" (although that has never been proposed by any leader). Let's have the discussion without the mistruths.
25
Unfortunately, the 'mistruths' exist on both sides, more often than not on the Left. (Note: I'm as liberal as it gets.)(Note: I own firearms.) The first questions I ask when speaking with someone about firearms and firearms laws are (1) do you know anything about firearms, and (2) have you read Heller in its entirety? The answer is always 'no.'
People who don't know anything about guns bandy about the terms 'assault weapon' and 'assault rifle' in ways you would characterize as 'mistruths.' An assault rifle is a fully automatic weapon, one that is highly regulated by the government. An assault weapon is nothing more than a semi-automatic rifle. It looks military, but it does not have selective fire. Dangerous? Sure. ANY firearm is dangerous.
So, you're right. We can never have a reasonable discussion as long as one side knows nothing about the subject. (You're also correct about those who think the 2A grants absolute rights the government cannot restrict in any fashion.)
People who don't know anything about guns bandy about the terms 'assault weapon' and 'assault rifle' in ways you would characterize as 'mistruths.' An assault rifle is a fully automatic weapon, one that is highly regulated by the government. An assault weapon is nothing more than a semi-automatic rifle. It looks military, but it does not have selective fire. Dangerous? Sure. ANY firearm is dangerous.
So, you're right. We can never have a reasonable discussion as long as one side knows nothing about the subject. (You're also correct about those who think the 2A grants absolute rights the government cannot restrict in any fashion.)
1
Why doesn't Mr. Obama get his Attormey General busy on bringing the 2nd Amendment back to the Supreme Court where the Bush Administration got it interpreted as a right to own and use automatic war weapons that had never been conceived of in the days in which the 2nd Amendment was written. How can we intelligently control lethal war weapons when the Bush Supreme Court twisted logic and common sense to contrive a right to convert muzzle-loading blunderbusses into 21st Century's deadliest firearms? The days of the blunderbuss and the state militias are long gone and so should the Bush's creation of a non-sensible 2nd Amendment right that was and is pure conservative myth.
14
The muskets of the 18th century were the "war weapons" of their time.
Do you also think that the 1st Amendment only applies to quill and parchment?
Do you also think that the 1st Amendment only applies to quill and parchment?
3
Do you think that buggy whips are automotive rights? War weapons of their day were bows and arrows and pikes. Is it a 2nd Amendment right to attach meanings to words that are now completely inapplicable? Is a right to target practice a greater right than the right to stay alive?
6
Another person that has not a clue about the Constitution. It is definitely just what you want it to be. The SCOTUS exists to deal with parties who wish to pervert the law to their own personal biases and eliminate the rights of citizens.
Anyone who tries to mash the Constitution back in the 18th century is missing the entire purpose of having a Constitution.
Anyone who tries to mash the Constitution back in the 18th century is missing the entire purpose of having a Constitution.
2
We’ve been at this for fifteen years with very mixed results. Not only are there more terrorist safe havens around the world than before 2001, but homegrown terrorism further calls into question the scheme of fighting them there so we don’t have to fight them here. They don’t accept the idea that there’re “innocents”—only oppressors and oppressed. The secret of “martyrdom” is simple: You can’t kill a dead man. When a man does not fear death, all the living fear him.
1
You write that the nation "remains divided" on the gun debate, but the most striking thing about the link that you provide (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/01/17/us/poll-americans-views-on... is that Americans are quite united on most of those poll questions. It might be more accurate reporting to write, "Americans are surprisingly unified on many gun control questions."
34
The House speaker, Paul D. Ryan, has made it clear that there will be no rush in the House, either. “We’re going to take a deep breath and make sure that this is done correctly"
What's the difference between the shooter and the House Speaker?
Just like the shooter, our House Speaker "is going to take a deep breath and make sure that this is done correctly."
The carnage has to stop immediately!
What's the difference between the shooter and the House Speaker?
Just like the shooter, our House Speaker "is going to take a deep breath and make sure that this is done correctly."
The carnage has to stop immediately!
28
Laura, Hyperbole.
1
The "carnage" happened in the 1990s, when there were far *more* firearm-involved homicides than there are today.
The media is just doing a better job sensationalizing the ones that aren't involving poor black people of not infrequently questionable affiliations and histories.
The media is just doing a better job sensationalizing the ones that aren't involving poor black people of not infrequently questionable affiliations and histories.
Seems like both parties are offering sensible though imperfect legislation. It would be wonderful to see some bi-partisanship emerge. Why introduce legislation if its sole purpose is to be used as a cudgel against the other party.
2
Many of the arguments on both sides are rubbish:
Gun advocates:
- a handgun with a few rounds is adequate for home defense from bad guys
- just being armed scares away just about anyone
- that same handgun will more likely be involved in an accident or suicide
- that a large capacity assault style weapon, possibly with a bump stock to reach automatic rate of fire, will be needed for home defense is ludicrous
- a large number of bad guys is inconceivable for average citizens
- a large number of anything would almost certainly kill a resistor
- BLM backed off from the Bundy standoff to avoid bloodshed on either
side, not because of their opponents' firepower; handguns or even knives
would have achieved the same result.
- regulation of private sales is likely no more onerous than a person to person car sale and would keep some bad guys from getting guns and some gun running.
- buying bullets at the range for target practice or competition shouldn't be a big deal in most cases.
- required training within a group (better trained good guys, chance to report nuts) would make everyone safer
Gun control:
- it may be tricky to legislate ammo
- gun owners may hunt (shotgun, hunting rifle), competitive target shoot
(handguns, rifles), and invoke self-defense (all of the above?) which
requires target shooting to become proficient; each needs different
rounds and many for target practice and competitive shooting;
(out of room)
Gun advocates:
- a handgun with a few rounds is adequate for home defense from bad guys
- just being armed scares away just about anyone
- that same handgun will more likely be involved in an accident or suicide
- that a large capacity assault style weapon, possibly with a bump stock to reach automatic rate of fire, will be needed for home defense is ludicrous
- a large number of bad guys is inconceivable for average citizens
- a large number of anything would almost certainly kill a resistor
- BLM backed off from the Bundy standoff to avoid bloodshed on either
side, not because of their opponents' firepower; handguns or even knives
would have achieved the same result.
- regulation of private sales is likely no more onerous than a person to person car sale and would keep some bad guys from getting guns and some gun running.
- buying bullets at the range for target practice or competition shouldn't be a big deal in most cases.
- required training within a group (better trained good guys, chance to report nuts) would make everyone safer
Gun control:
- it may be tricky to legislate ammo
- gun owners may hunt (shotgun, hunting rifle), competitive target shoot
(handguns, rifles), and invoke self-defense (all of the above?) which
requires target shooting to become proficient; each needs different
rounds and many for target practice and competitive shooting;
(out of room)
1
The problem seems to be the false and misleading propaganda spewing from the NRA. They lie. They tell people the 2nd Amendment is about neutralizing tyranny and keeping freedom alive. Nothing could be further from the truth. The 2nd amendment was inserted to make sure the nascent United States, which had no standing army, could call upon its citizens to form well-regulated militias in times of crisis, like an invasion from the Brits or Spain. That was it. Keep a musket handy so we can call on you to defend the country.
61
"The 2nd amendment was inserted to make sure the nascent United States, which had no standing army, could call upon its citizens to form well-regulated militias in times of crisis, like an invasion from the Brits or Spain."
Strangely Madison, Jay and Hamilton disagree. In the Federalist Paper #46 they clearly state that the arms are for the defense of the people and the states against the federal government even giving a comparison that 500,000 armed citizens then could easily defeat a much smaller though with superior arms force presented by the federals.
There so many writings on this subject by the founders that it is hard to believe someone could concoct your reason for the militia.
Strangely Madison, Jay and Hamilton disagree. In the Federalist Paper #46 they clearly state that the arms are for the defense of the people and the states against the federal government even giving a comparison that 500,000 armed citizens then could easily defeat a much smaller though with superior arms force presented by the federals.
There so many writings on this subject by the founders that it is hard to believe someone could concoct your reason for the militia.
2
NYHUGENOT: I went and read Federalist Paper #46 and several analyses of it. Madison's notion that the right to own guns as a defense against the federal government was purely hypothetical. His faith in the stability of the cooperation between the federal and state governments was unwavering. IOW, he refused to live in the paranoid state so favored by gun fetishists today.
So, gun-rights groups have no problem denying Second Amendment rights to the millions of Americans with mental health issues, even though only a miniscule number of the mentally ill ever commit mass murder. Yet they are against denying those rights to suspected terrorists, most of whom are pretty dependably intent on committing mass murder???
27
An adjudicated mentally ill person can easily be denied the means to harm themselves or others because of testimony by mental health observers.
The person thrown arbitrarily onto a list with no or little proof hasn't been proven to be a danger.
My Sicilian Grandfather grew up with a number of people who became involved in crime as adults. He played cards with them, they hired him to paint their houses and businesses. Does that make him a possible criminal?
The person thrown arbitrarily onto a list with no or little proof hasn't been proven to be a danger.
My Sicilian Grandfather grew up with a number of people who became involved in crime as adults. He played cards with them, they hired him to paint their houses and businesses. Does that make him a possible criminal?
1
Since Orlando there have hundreds of shootings and deaths. Congress will do nothing and gun sales are through the roof. I feel under siege in the wealthiest country the world has ever known. And I live in a very safe town. How do people say guns make us safer with a straight face.
I want Paul Ryan to sit with a mother who lost her child in on of these incidents and look her in the eye and say I plan to do nothing.
I want Paul Ryan to sit with a mother who lost her child in on of these incidents and look her in the eye and say I plan to do nothing.
32
The Democrats will block the Republicans two measures and the Republicans will block the two Democratic measures and we will be at a stalemate again. The real cause of the Orlando shooting an ISIS sympathizer will be swept under the rug and never discussed.
2
The real cause? That guy was mentally ill and had a long history of mental illness. Yet, he was allowed to buy the worlds most dangerous weapon allowed in civilian hands. That was the problem. I psychopath with a gun is a mass murderer. A psychopath without a gun is just a psychopath.
19
"A psychopath without a gun is just a psychopath."
Unless he has a gallon or two of gasoline. The largest mass murder in NYC took place when a gallon of gasoline was poured down the steps of an illegal social club and set on fire resulting in the death of 54 people.
Unless he has a gallon or two of gasoline. The largest mass murder in NYC took place when a gallon of gasoline was poured down the steps of an illegal social club and set on fire resulting in the death of 54 people.
3
If he was mentally ill then why didn't enough people say something to prompt a sanity hearing? Without adjudication in a court of law before a magistrate hearing the testimony of expert witnesses he is not mentally ill. Rights cannot be taken away arbitrarily.
1
All gun purchases should require a background check, show your ID and get an instant check (just like a loan), if you are on a watch list you do not get a gun.
16
" if you are on a watch list you do not get a gun."
But what if you are on the watch list by mistake? You should be able to appeal being on the list and if it is found to be in error you should not only have your legal bills be reimbursed by the government but receive a monetary award of at least $100,000. Such a procedure just might make the unelected bureaucrats in charge of this list a little more careful about who they put on it.
But what if you are on the watch list by mistake? You should be able to appeal being on the list and if it is found to be in error you should not only have your legal bills be reimbursed by the government but receive a monetary award of at least $100,000. Such a procedure just might make the unelected bureaucrats in charge of this list a little more careful about who they put on it.
2
I agree; due process appeal ought to be part of any type of watch list. And any such appeal which the government loses ought to result in the Government paying all reasonable "court costs." But $100k is a bit too steep.
Before you can buy a firearm you must fill out federal form 4473 and pass a NICS check provided by the FBI.
That's why the gang bangers buy their firearms on the street. They can't pass a NICS check and are probably underage.
That's why the gang bangers buy their firearms on the street. They can't pass a NICS check and are probably underage.
1
The commonly employed argument comparing guns to cars, in terms of licensing, misses the point. Owning and driving a car is a privilege granted by the state that can be revoked by the state at its own discretion. Owning and operating a car is not a right guaranteed by the Constitution. Keeping and bearing a firearm is. Requiring a license or some sort of testing prior to the exercise of a Constitutional right is anathema to the American concept of democracy. Imagine if we required proof of an education before allowing someone to exercise their right to speak, or proof of membership in a congregation before one could claim freedom of religion. Say what you want about the Second Amendment, but our rights as Americans do not require state permission or sanction before being exercised.
5
Going with the old "natural rights of man" argument, I see. Actually, if I want to run for the presidency, I have to show proof of citizenship, and there are several standards for that. I have to show proof that I am 35 years old. That is in the Constitution.
Btw, the 2nd Amendment says "the right to keep and bear arms" implying ownership, I suppose, but still, it says nothing about ownership of guns as property. I can "keep" a lot of things at my house without actually "owning" them. Speaking of cars, I lease mine, I "keep" them in the garage, I drive them (does that mean "bear" them?) and I license them. The 2nd says nothing really about shooting a gun, just keeping them and bearing them, so maybe shooting a gun really is a privilege and not a right. I'm not a costitutional lawyer, you evidently know more than me, so correct me.
Btw, the 2nd Amendment says "the right to keep and bear arms" implying ownership, I suppose, but still, it says nothing about ownership of guns as property. I can "keep" a lot of things at my house without actually "owning" them. Speaking of cars, I lease mine, I "keep" them in the garage, I drive them (does that mean "bear" them?) and I license them. The 2nd says nothing really about shooting a gun, just keeping them and bearing them, so maybe shooting a gun really is a privilege and not a right. I'm not a costitutional lawyer, you evidently know more than me, so correct me.
10
Why are the first four words of the amendment conveniently ignored?
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
It does not say where you are permitted to keep them. I can logically infer from this that I am only permitted to keep them in a storage locker at my local militia headquarters. And since it seems Constitutionally permissible to ban me from owning a .50 caliber machine gun, why can't this ban be extended to semi-automatic weapons or weapons holding more than 5 or 6 rounds of ammunition?
And, by the way, if read literally, the Second Amendment does not grant us the right to own weapons for hunting. This tells me that any argument brought forth by the NRA or other group tying hunting to this debate is entirely fallacious. It is merely a smokescreen for anti-government paranoia.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
It does not say where you are permitted to keep them. I can logically infer from this that I am only permitted to keep them in a storage locker at my local militia headquarters. And since it seems Constitutionally permissible to ban me from owning a .50 caliber machine gun, why can't this ban be extended to semi-automatic weapons or weapons holding more than 5 or 6 rounds of ammunition?
And, by the way, if read literally, the Second Amendment does not grant us the right to own weapons for hunting. This tells me that any argument brought forth by the NRA or other group tying hunting to this debate is entirely fallacious. It is merely a smokescreen for anti-government paranoia.
11
The 2nd had nothing whatever to do with the private ownership of anything, let alone firearms.
Its design intent was to reverse Article One section 8 which took away the ultimate control of militia from the States and gave it to Congress. The Constitution still says that, if you want to check.
The 2nd was written in Virginia, not Philadelphia, by Virginians, for the primary benefit of Virginians. They simply could not risk that Congress could ever *infringe* on their practice of assigning slave-patrol missions to their militia.
Its design intent was to reverse Article One section 8 which took away the ultimate control of militia from the States and gave it to Congress. The Constitution still says that, if you want to check.
The 2nd was written in Virginia, not Philadelphia, by Virginians, for the primary benefit of Virginians. They simply could not risk that Congress could ever *infringe* on their practice of assigning slave-patrol missions to their militia.
4
Disappointing politics as usual, but totally to be expected.
The death of 49 people is nothing more than an opportunity for our legislators to restate their positions, with absolutely no visible attempt to reach across the aisle and craft some sort of agreement and legislation that might actually help make America a safer place.
DEMs prepare their proposals. GOP prepares theirs. Nobody talks to each other. Everybody goes home and collects campaign contributions from their usual sources.
Rinse. Repeat.
The death of 49 people is nothing more than an opportunity for our legislators to restate their positions, with absolutely no visible attempt to reach across the aisle and craft some sort of agreement and legislation that might actually help make America a safer place.
DEMs prepare their proposals. GOP prepares theirs. Nobody talks to each other. Everybody goes home and collects campaign contributions from their usual sources.
Rinse. Repeat.
114
Instead of moaning about gridlock, maybe you need to take a hard look in the mirror.
Because, people like you, not the elected officials in Washington, are the problem when you think proposing a ban on the sale of assault weapons and reducing the size of magazine clips is a waste of time, since it only "restates" a position.
Because, people like you, not the elected officials in Washington, are the problem when you think proposing a ban on the sale of assault weapons and reducing the size of magazine clips is a waste of time, since it only "restates" a position.
So you really think the Dems haven't tried many combinations to get some movement.? If ao, you haven't been paying attention to the Party of No for the last 7.5 years
as a mental health therapist I am appaled at mental health of those elected that continuously reject keeping the citizens of the country safe. How is it possible that after Sandy Hook and the murder of those little children, the Republicans continue to insist that there be no change in the continued gun murders of the citizens. How is it possible that no matter that the majority of Americans beg for reasonable protection, it is denied even after the gun deaths keep rising. That is a mental health issue on a sickening refusal to stop the murders of Americans. We are governed by people who allow our murders while using the 2nd amendment to justify it. That is not only sick thinking, it is utter disregard for life. If the people we elect keep refusing to ptotect us we need to take action outselves.
24
The majority of Americans may "beg" for reasonable protection, but as long as they keep voting Republican (or not voting at all), they're pretty unlikely to get it.
1
Come again? It is harder to get on an airplane than to purchase a machine gun? How can anyone argue against synchronizing these two lists? Does anyone need to purchase a machine gun with the same speed as purchasing a hamburger? Implementing a waiting period will actually protect the "honest, hardworking" American gun owners from those who want want them to do us harm.
6
Uh, you do realize that machine guns made after 1986 are banned for civilian ownership and those made prior to that are regulated and monitored at a much higher level,
3
Lilo,
One can convert an AR-15 from semi to full auto with a rubber-band.
One can convert an AR-15 from semi to full auto with a rubber-band.
Totally false. Converting AR15 to automatic requires machining of metal parts and it's not easy.
1
Realistically, true and workable gun control does require registration of guns and licensing of owners and liability insurance for accidents but the mistrust makes that likely to an objective observer a proposition on the way to confiscation of guns at this time.
California has required a two week waiting period on purchases of hand guns for many decades and it did not inconvenience anyone. Doing the same for long guns would not be big deal. The kinds of measures proposed nationally are three days for the most part which seems ridiculously short to me. Background checks without a really good database that is as accurate as is humanly possible seems equally ridiculous to me. There are no dependable resources upon which to rely at this time. So to me the proposed measures are just window dressing, not substantial measures.
The other side of the ridiculous is the refusal of gun control advocates to acknowledge that the vast majority of gun owners are trustworthy, responsible, and caring people who do not want guns used to kill people by those who are irresponsible or malicious. That leads to all kinds of proposals that gun owners will not support because they really are unnecessarily restrictive and do not significantly improve gun safety. But the loud gun control advocates will not listen to gun owners, they seem to think that all who own guns are homicidal psychopaths, and so implicitly their proposals are based upon the proposition that no guns would be the best option.
California has required a two week waiting period on purchases of hand guns for many decades and it did not inconvenience anyone. Doing the same for long guns would not be big deal. The kinds of measures proposed nationally are three days for the most part which seems ridiculously short to me. Background checks without a really good database that is as accurate as is humanly possible seems equally ridiculous to me. There are no dependable resources upon which to rely at this time. So to me the proposed measures are just window dressing, not substantial measures.
The other side of the ridiculous is the refusal of gun control advocates to acknowledge that the vast majority of gun owners are trustworthy, responsible, and caring people who do not want guns used to kill people by those who are irresponsible or malicious. That leads to all kinds of proposals that gun owners will not support because they really are unnecessarily restrictive and do not significantly improve gun safety. But the loud gun control advocates will not listen to gun owners, they seem to think that all who own guns are homicidal psychopaths, and so implicitly their proposals are based upon the proposition that no guns would be the best option.
45
Sure, a vast majority of gun owners are responsible people. But the same could be said of a society wherein people can own their own nukes. A vast majority are good citizens and responsible. But, it only takes one or two irresponsible kooks or psychopaths to destroy the world. The solution is to make all guns that can fire more than 6 bullets rapidly, illegal and banned from civilian use. Hunting rifle with a bolt-action, single shot capacity? Fine. A snub-nose .38 revolver, or .357 Magnum revolver, ok. A 30-shot Glock semi-automatic pistol? No way. AR-15 or Sig Sauer machine gun. semi-automatics capable of 30-100 round magazines? Never.
9
There are no safe guns. There are no safe ways to shoot people. The destructiveness of all guns from the small .22 caliber shorts to the .50 caliber mile reaching sniper rifles are all well established. The man who murdered all those people in Oslo used semi-automatic rifles and handguns which he fired slowly and deliberately for two hours -- he could have done the same damage with a revolver and bolt action rifle with a five round clip. Guns which he obtained legally in a country in which gun ownership is tightly controlled.
5
Good gun control will reduce violence where the risks are evident and well understood, but it will not likely affect the mass murderers who plan their atrocities over many months or even years because they like serial killers are very able to conceal what they are about. Semi-automatic guns are no more dangerous than are any other kind of guns in popular use. We know that gun owners are no more likely to use their guns against anybody than are those who doe not own guns to use something else against anybody. Most people are murdered not by guns but by physical force, edged weapons, and everyday items. Most people do not own guns and have no desire to do so, which is fine by me. But to control guns requires changing the Constitution with the trust of all the responsible gun owners that they will not have their guns confiscated nor they be dictated to about gun ownership by people who think gun owners are threats to everyone.
1
The gun issue in America will not be solved unless newspapers start doing their most important job every day. Guns must be a banner issue in every newspaper in America every day or it will never be solved. Every 15 minutes on average in America today someone dies from a gunshot. Death by gunshot has become so commonplace that it is no longer news. The gun issue has corrupted the very soul of American democracy perverting the meaning of freedom into the freedom to kill others or yourself.
Many of those gun deaths are children killing children or angry adults ending quarrels with bloodshed. Gun massacres by terrorists who hate America, or who hate gays, or who hate anyone who disagrees with their world views still generates a cycle of news. But the deeper issue, how the Second Amendment was interpreted in 1790 or how it was interpreted in 1890, 1990, or today, has lost its relevance as news. Every gun death story should include the question, “How did the perpetrator obtain a gun what kind of gun was used?”
Newspapers are essential to the health and success of democracy. It is not about just making profits, it must be about keeping the dialog going on policies that are essential to the future of our nation. The gun issue should generate a heated debate, because more Americans have died from gunshots than have died fighting recent wars. Reporting every aspect of every consequence of our gun policies is something too important to be relegated to the back pages of the news.
Many of those gun deaths are children killing children or angry adults ending quarrels with bloodshed. Gun massacres by terrorists who hate America, or who hate gays, or who hate anyone who disagrees with their world views still generates a cycle of news. But the deeper issue, how the Second Amendment was interpreted in 1790 or how it was interpreted in 1890, 1990, or today, has lost its relevance as news. Every gun death story should include the question, “How did the perpetrator obtain a gun what kind of gun was used?”
Newspapers are essential to the health and success of democracy. It is not about just making profits, it must be about keeping the dialog going on policies that are essential to the future of our nation. The gun issue should generate a heated debate, because more Americans have died from gunshots than have died fighting recent wars. Reporting every aspect of every consequence of our gun policies is something too important to be relegated to the back pages of the news.
8
The most important and logical Law being voted on must be the one that requires background checks on any buyers of Guns from Internet sellers and private or unlicensed Sellers at Gun Shows.
How can anyone argue against such obvious and important provisions and do so with a straight face?
The logic Must follow this line: I am a criminal, or a mentally unbalanced person on record for various psychotic events that on going treatment is being performed..., I am a Terrorist,I am a foreign Terrorist on a tourist Visa, I am an illegal immigrant former Drug Dealer... I am Anyone Else who does Not want or who needs to avoid a Background Check on my purchasing of a gun. Hmm...
given the fact I am one of the above ...I had better buy that gun from the Internet or a gun show or from an unlicensed seller Because then I don't have to have that background check!
It is that Obviously clear cut as to why this law must be introduced.
To vote against this proposed law in is in my opinion being an accessory to the fact of any consequence if a person commits a crime or murder with a gun bought this way that makes it so simple to avoid background checks.
How can anyone justify opposing such an obvious means of buying a gun if by law you are already prohibited from doing so but wish to break the law without any chance of being caught by doing so?
How can anyone argue against such obvious and important provisions and do so with a straight face?
The logic Must follow this line: I am a criminal, or a mentally unbalanced person on record for various psychotic events that on going treatment is being performed..., I am a Terrorist,I am a foreign Terrorist on a tourist Visa, I am an illegal immigrant former Drug Dealer... I am Anyone Else who does Not want or who needs to avoid a Background Check on my purchasing of a gun. Hmm...
given the fact I am one of the above ...I had better buy that gun from the Internet or a gun show or from an unlicensed seller Because then I don't have to have that background check!
It is that Obviously clear cut as to why this law must be introduced.
To vote against this proposed law in is in my opinion being an accessory to the fact of any consequence if a person commits a crime or murder with a gun bought this way that makes it so simple to avoid background checks.
How can anyone justify opposing such an obvious means of buying a gun if by law you are already prohibited from doing so but wish to break the law without any chance of being caught by doing so?
5
We willingly legislate soda; we require drivers licenses a test and weeks of training before issuing them; we add one travail after another at airports in response to bombs in sneakers. But guns? Perish the thought.
37
Sensible firearms reform will never happen as long as legislators - on both sides of the aisle - consider their NRA approval rating more important than the lives of 20 tiny schoolchildren slaughtered in Newtown, CT.
42
Not to mention the 49 innocent victims slaughtered at a gay nightclub, I had a little hope after this last massacre that the GOP might show some common sense and compassion. The NRA and GOP have blood of innocents on their hands.
I always find it odd that when gun right advocates bring up the second amendment as a reason why assault weapons should not be banned from sale to ordinary citizens, or people will be unfairly targeted if a no assault weapon sale to people on the no-fly list is enacted; yet enacting the Patriot Act and all these measures enacted to control airport security is ok? Could it be that money is the real reason any sort of gun control on assault weapons won't pass and that the people in Congress really don't care about innocent peoples lives being taken by mass murders or anyone's second amendment right?
13
Only the pressure of an election and a flub of a Presidential candidate could have moved these stoney legislators to this minimal action. Make no mistake, it is their own careers that are paramount in their minds and on which they will vote after putting a wet finger up to test the wind direction of their local electorate.
7
Why is no one in the Senate talking about restricting the ammunition for these weapons, specifically limiting the number of rounds a compatible magazine can carry? People using these rifles for legitimate purposes like hunting, target practice and yes, self-defense, have no need to be able to fire more than 3 rounds before reloading. Imagine if the shooters at Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook and Orlando had had to reload every 3 shots...someone would have tackled them. It also would make it easier for the police to subdue a shooter. Reducing the capacity of magazines by 90% would have no adverse effect on legal users of these weapons, but would make mass murder much harder.
712
You really don't know what you're talking about. No one in a self-defense scenario ever thought that they needed less ammunition. There have been situations where multiple attackers have tried to harm people, including women and elderly people, people who are out of shape, etc. There is no way that 3 shots would be enough in that situation. Besides even the best shooters occasionally miss. If my wife is attacked while I am away I want her to be able to use the most effective weapons legally available to end the threat. Let's say that two people attack one woman. She shoots one person in a non-lethal area and misses with her next two shots. What should she do now? Die peacefully so that your virtue remains intact. Get serious.
5
Those who plan mass shootings will always find plenty of ammunition because they rarely do so without many long months of planning. Guns that only fire a very few rounds are not useful in practice which is why they are not popular. People have guns with multiple rounds able to be fired because of the less frequent cases where they need more rounds. People need more than three rounds for self defense because at least six have been needed in the past, and even then people have needed more, sometimes.
Who would have tackled who? The young men who tackled the assailant on the French train were unusual people and one of them could easily have been killed had the shooter had a well functioning weapon.
Who would have tackled who? The young men who tackled the assailant on the French train were unusual people and one of them could easily have been killed had the shooter had a well functioning weapon.
2
Aussie, We (people who hunt, defend themselves, and shoot targets) have no need to fire more than three rounds? Absolute nonsense. (How did you even arrive at such a figure?)
There are target competitions that require more than three rapid fire shoots. There are hunting situation that require the same. There are self defense situations that require the same.
Please stick to what you know or can deduce.
Thank you
There are target competitions that require more than three rapid fire shoots. There are hunting situation that require the same. There are self defense situations that require the same.
Please stick to what you know or can deduce.
Thank you
6
Are the congresspeople out of their minds? Only keep those on the terrorist list from buying a gun? The FBI can't even get that list right and follow people on it. How about anyone that is trying to buy a gun be subjected to one of many classic psychological profile tests to see if there is anything that might indicate that they could go off the deep end shooting people. Of course criminal background checks are needed as well. Even with all this screening some nut cases will slip through and purchase a gun. How about taking charge and producing TV and movies that are not as violent as they presently are. If we are going to turn violence around it will take more than just regulating gun sales.
6
Today may not be that day, but the National Rifle Association's day is coming. What other industry has blanket immunity from liability suits? What other industry has a funding ban on research into the impact of its products? What other industry wields extortion-like control over local elected officials to the extent that the NRA does.
How would universal background checks, bans on high-velocity rounds or extended capacity magazines or, for that matter, even gun registration affect the sport shooter, hunter or lawful collector? It's time for gun enthusiasts of all kinds to take offense at the way they have been led by the nose for the sake gun industry profits and in spite of the carnage that accompanies them.
How would universal background checks, bans on high-velocity rounds or extended capacity magazines or, for that matter, even gun registration affect the sport shooter, hunter or lawful collector? It's time for gun enthusiasts of all kinds to take offense at the way they have been led by the nose for the sake gun industry profits and in spite of the carnage that accompanies them.
331
If law abiding gun owners really believed that the anti-gun movement was only interested in regulation as opposed to confiscation there would be no opposition to background checks. Here in California only handguns which contain a "micro-stamping" technology which DOES NOT EXIST can be introduced as new models for sale. What does that sound like to you...regulation or a total ban?
3
Yes. Sue the organization of the NRA the way the KKK organization was sued out of existence.
This entire conversation is a waste of good newspaper space. Nothing is going to change and never will as long as The NRA controls Congress. This so-called effort today to do something about restricting who can buy assault weapons is nothing but a political side show. Republicans know that in a few days this will all blow over, as it always does, and they can get back to business as usual, the eradication of the middle class.
In any event, mass shootings are good for business, gun sales always go up after one of these incidents and as most of us know, profits come first.
In any event, mass shootings are good for business, gun sales always go up after one of these incidents and as most of us know, profits come first.
23
Perfect assessment of the situation! I said something similar to this just last night at dinner.
I was also saying that: after the Sandy Hook massacre in which 20 children aged between 6 and 7 years old were killed, I thought for sure something would be done this time, as my understanding of US mentality is that people here really care for their children. So, I was very surprised to find out that nothing was done again, and had to accept that nothing will be done in my life time. Having access to guns in this country is more important than children's lives.
I was also saying that: after the Sandy Hook massacre in which 20 children aged between 6 and 7 years old were killed, I thought for sure something would be done this time, as my understanding of US mentality is that people here really care for their children. So, I was very surprised to find out that nothing was done again, and had to accept that nothing will be done in my life time. Having access to guns in this country is more important than children's lives.
7
We've seen media coverage of the gun debate from every angle.... pro-gun, anti-gun, 2nd Amendment, families of gunshot victims, the political world... I read a lot of news, have several online subscriptions to newspapers across the country.
I have yet to see an interview with a CEO, CFO or board member of a gun manufacturer. I figure these guys, or gals, enjoy anonymity unmatched among top business leaders, probably enabled by political forces sympathetic to their industry. It would seem appropriate that the public hear from these people, yet it seems arranging an interview with Putin might be easier to arrange.
The NY Times did a profile on the AR-15 recently. Maybe just as interesting would be a profile on one of the gun manufacturers and their top leadership.
I have yet to see an interview with a CEO, CFO or board member of a gun manufacturer. I figure these guys, or gals, enjoy anonymity unmatched among top business leaders, probably enabled by political forces sympathetic to their industry. It would seem appropriate that the public hear from these people, yet it seems arranging an interview with Putin might be easier to arrange.
The NY Times did a profile on the AR-15 recently. Maybe just as interesting would be a profile on one of the gun manufacturers and their top leadership.
185
The Onion "interviewed" an AR-15: http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/its-honor-continue-being-valued-over-co...
1
Great suggestion. Maybe public shaming would have an effect
E.C. from Alabama: you are wrong. Polls show that approximately 90% of Americans favor expanded background checks and a substantial majority, 57%, favor an assault weapons ban.
The problem is that the gun nuts make this their primary issue and vote on it while the rest of us don't and that the NRA pours money into the Republican Party. People who are sickened by the thought that their kids won't even have a chance to run if a lunatic with an assault weapon comes to mow them down in a classroom or a movie or a church need to vote that interest. They also should put as much money as they can into defeating the Republicans in Congress who would rather have classrooms full of dead children than tick off the NRA.
The problem is that the gun nuts make this their primary issue and vote on it while the rest of us don't and that the NRA pours money into the Republican Party. People who are sickened by the thought that their kids won't even have a chance to run if a lunatic with an assault weapon comes to mow them down in a classroom or a movie or a church need to vote that interest. They also should put as much money as they can into defeating the Republicans in Congress who would rather have classrooms full of dead children than tick off the NRA.
139
So long as you people use pejoratives such as "gun nuts" you will be tuned out by the people you want to talk to.
Registration has always lead to confiscation in the past as in Australia and Great Britain, Germany, and every other country. Allowing the federal government to hold the records only makes it easier for the government to track you down should you not turn them in if a law requiring it is passed.
Three years ago a state passed a law requiring registration of AR15s. At present time compliance is estimated at 50%. What is the state doing to enforce it? Nothing. No one is looking forward to house to house searches.
A federal law requiring registration would probably be just as efficient. Who is going to do 50,000,000 house searches for guns assuming the same statistic.
Registration has always lead to confiscation in the past as in Australia and Great Britain, Germany, and every other country. Allowing the federal government to hold the records only makes it easier for the government to track you down should you not turn them in if a law requiring it is passed.
Three years ago a state passed a law requiring registration of AR15s. At present time compliance is estimated at 50%. What is the state doing to enforce it? Nothing. No one is looking forward to house to house searches.
A federal law requiring registration would probably be just as efficient. Who is going to do 50,000,000 house searches for guns assuming the same statistic.
1
Do you think people would continue to favor an "assault weapon" ban if they understood that true assault rifles have been banned in this country since 1934? 1 more time: FULLY AUTOMATIC GUNS ARE ILLEGAL.
3
We Europeans think that many US-Americans do not understand English. The phrase "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." does not allow for private gun ownership, except for members of a militia.
523
No. You have it wrong.
http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/08/sorry-but-owning-a-gun-is-an-individ...
http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/08/sorry-but-owning-a-gun-is-an-individ...
2
Dr. jaschke,
You may not be aware of a document called the Federalist Papers. It is an apologetic for ratification of the constitution by Hamilton, Jay and Madison under the pseudonym Publius.
In Paper #46 they identify the need for the states and their citizens to be able to protect themselves from a tyrannical federal government with the power to raise its own army to enforce its dictates. In fact such ability was demanded by the states as a condition to ratification which along with other demands became The Bill Of Rights.
Publius estimates that there are 500,000 armed citizens and due to such large numbers would be able to defeat a smaller though better equipped army of the time. Extrapolate that to today where 100,000,000 armed citizens would be confronting 1.6 million military personnel 40% of whom are support personnel with little military training.
George Mason who helped develop the constitution said this in response to a query from the Virginia Constitutional Ratification Committee, "What is the militia?" "Why it is every citizen armed to defend liberty." The Constitutional Convention meant for the people to be armed as a right.
You left out the comma after the word "militia" which you failed to capitalize, and you failed to capitalize the word "State". The State is not the federal government. The phrase "well regulated" referred to the arms not the people and meant at that time in "good working order".
You may not be aware of a document called the Federalist Papers. It is an apologetic for ratification of the constitution by Hamilton, Jay and Madison under the pseudonym Publius.
In Paper #46 they identify the need for the states and their citizens to be able to protect themselves from a tyrannical federal government with the power to raise its own army to enforce its dictates. In fact such ability was demanded by the states as a condition to ratification which along with other demands became The Bill Of Rights.
Publius estimates that there are 500,000 armed citizens and due to such large numbers would be able to defeat a smaller though better equipped army of the time. Extrapolate that to today where 100,000,000 armed citizens would be confronting 1.6 million military personnel 40% of whom are support personnel with little military training.
George Mason who helped develop the constitution said this in response to a query from the Virginia Constitutional Ratification Committee, "What is the militia?" "Why it is every citizen armed to defend liberty." The Constitutional Convention meant for the people to be armed as a right.
You left out the comma after the word "militia" which you failed to capitalize, and you failed to capitalize the word "State". The State is not the federal government. The phrase "well regulated" referred to the arms not the people and meant at that time in "good working order".
1
a militia is a citizen group, not a national military force. the us was able to break away from GB in 1776 because citizens were basically allowed the same weaponry as the british regulars. that was true then, and that is still the reason we should have that access under the constitution, as written. when the citizens only have slingshots and the military is fully equipped, well, its hello nazi germany.
1
Democrats should vote yes on all four. The needle has to move.
8
Here is where I would like to see action: could the NYT and other newspapers of note have a continuous feed on their home pages that gives us some facts. First, the body count- a daily count of gun deaths and the yearly total. Second, beginning with the members of Congress up for reelection this year, the voting records on gun issues, both past and current. Third, the campaign contributions these people receive from the NRA. Fourth, polls showing where the public stands on gun control
We don't need to share our opinions anymore. Everyone is locked in on their point of view. It's too disheartening.
Just share the facts and keep it on the front page. Please.
We don't need to share our opinions anymore. Everyone is locked in on their point of view. It's too disheartening.
Just share the facts and keep it on the front page. Please.
60
Hold on. The Republican party is basically saying we must protect the rights of people on terrorist watch lists to obtain military-grade assault weapons, unless the authorities can rule them out in 72 hours?
This is insane. The Democrats should be flooding the airwaves with advertisements focusing on this fact.
This is insane. The Democrats should be flooding the airwaves with advertisements focusing on this fact.
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Ken
If in fact someone has been placed on the “terrorist watch list” and their placement on that list is justified by facts and evidence then rebutting their appeal to be removed should and could be done easily in the 72-hour time line.
If in fact someone has been placed on the “terrorist watch list” and their placement on that list is justified by facts and evidence then rebutting their appeal to be removed should and could be done easily in the 72-hour time line.
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No one is listening. We give up. Emigrate if you don't like the facts on the ground.
Sec. Clinton needs to use this republican senate vote in her election campaign.
Speak about the party that allows terrorists to get guns.
Terrorists will know they can't board a plane, but they can buy an automatic rifle in the USA.
Speak about the party that allows terrorists to get guns.
Terrorists will know they can't board a plane, but they can buy an automatic rifle in the USA.
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If our law makers can't even get it together concerning background checks on people on terrorist watch lists, so obviously a tiny first step in helping keep Americans safe, something polls show Americans want, we the people should vote the craven bowers and scrapers to NRA donors out. We need serious legislation to ban assault weapons now. What can we expect from these politicians? More atrocities. I cry tears of frustration at the indifference to a sane gun ownership policy our Representative display.
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Members of Congress who fail to act should be relentlessly shammed so that everyone in every state knows their names so that they can vote accordingly.
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The watch list is far from ideal because there's no oversight to it at all. They can anyone for any reason without any check. However, Sen. Murphy's bill, which would have simply made background checks apply to private sales, is so ridiculously simple and fair that it makes no sense whatsoever that it would get voted down, other than the fact that the NRA is against background checks.
As long as people criticize "politicians" they let the Republican Party and its NRA funding, off the hook. The problem isn't "politicians", it is Repuvlican politicians. Give us 60 Democrats in the Senate, a Democratic House, and it will pass Congress. A D mocratic President will sign it.
Sawed off shotguns and brass knuckles are illegal because they are created for mayhem and only mayhem. Assault rifles are the same and should be eliminated, as should gun show loopholes. It is time we went back to what we used to have, sensible measures to limit -- not eliminate -- dangerous weaponry in the hands of non-military/law enforcement.
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These proposed measures are so bogus and just leave room for more lolly-gagging in order to appease the gun lobby. They are counting on the smoke settling in Orlando for another delay on the obvious. Anyone can wake up disgruntled on any given day and snap, purchase a weapon and go on a rampage. This isn't a bout terrorists, or mental health or 2nd amendment rights. This is about a trigger, an easy one and an easy way to kill multiples of innocent people in minutes. When our body of legislature grows some balls and get out of the pants of the NRA, gun manufacturers and gun lobbyists, there might be change. Meanwhile, it is all talk, talk talk --- many more will die.
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