A decent essay until the Pope Francis quote. Perhaps a better editor was needed? Same for the comment that an "ancient rivalry" exists between France & Germany - I think you meant to write "between France & England," unless 100 +/- yrs. qualifies as ancient history in our current Snapchat Age.
What makes me realize that the EU is absurd is the fact that it has Ambassadors - it's a freaking political construct, NOT a sovereign Nation. How/why can it justify having diplomatic missions - it's a bloody trade Union, fer cryin' outloud...
What makes me realize that the EU is absurd is the fact that it has Ambassadors - it's a freaking political construct, NOT a sovereign Nation. How/why can it justify having diplomatic missions - it's a bloody trade Union, fer cryin' outloud...
5
By blocking off Turkey from joining EU,
central European members countries created this situation with Britain.
Funniest thing is that same reasons apply: immigration from rest of EU, different religion, fear from foreigners and money,money...
central European members countries created this situation with Britain.
Funniest thing is that same reasons apply: immigration from rest of EU, different religion, fear from foreigners and money,money...
2
Germany's growing strength and the French decline are ripping the EU apart. A Brexit could accelerate this trend and push the French Front National into power next year. This woudl be the end of the EU we know.
A key objective of the EU has been the containment of Germany. Nevertheless, Germany has become the dominating power in Europe again. Growing German dominace since the reunification is stipulating fears and anti-German resentiments in many EU countries. Anti-European parties in France, Greece, Italy, Poland, and the UK have a sharp anti-German component in their programs.
A Brexit would further enhance the German dominance and ultimately prevent further EU democratization. The weight of 82 million could only be counterbalanced by an opposing coalition. On the other hand, German citizens increasingly demand not only to pay for other countries but also to have a stronger influence on their national economic policies.
The balance between European powers has been the key to peace and war in Europe since centuries. A Brexit could be a critical shock to the continent's stability.
A key objective of the EU has been the containment of Germany. Nevertheless, Germany has become the dominating power in Europe again. Growing German dominace since the reunification is stipulating fears and anti-German resentiments in many EU countries. Anti-European parties in France, Greece, Italy, Poland, and the UK have a sharp anti-German component in their programs.
A Brexit would further enhance the German dominance and ultimately prevent further EU democratization. The weight of 82 million could only be counterbalanced by an opposing coalition. On the other hand, German citizens increasingly demand not only to pay for other countries but also to have a stronger influence on their national economic policies.
The balance between European powers has been the key to peace and war in Europe since centuries. A Brexit could be a critical shock to the continent's stability.
2
What happened to Europe? Why the old girl was sacrificed on the altars of political correctness and open borders. I heard the last gasp was in Cologne where the Rape of Persephone was played out by migrants totally unaware of the cultural icon they were validating. Culture wars, it seems, have victims too. Lots of them.
5
And so should America. World is changing fast.
For 2,000 years (300BC – 1700AD) both India and China each produced 1/4 to 1/3 of world wealth, the rest (Africa, Europe, Kaliphate) remaining 1/3.
Asia trade with Europe via Silk Road existed for millennia. But from 7th century Muslim Kaliphate set shop in the middle, imposed transit Tariff (an Arabic word), milking China, India, Europe. Living off others through power became Muslim pastime, decimating its own industry as we do today.
Europe, cold, northern continent, is food-poorest, must trade to survive. Crusades to liberate trade failed. 100 famines around 1300 AD. Muslims starved Christians to half.
In 1453 Turks took Constantinople, and then best lands in Europe making Tariff spurious, so blocked trade altogether. Desperate Europe, forced to find new route to Asia got new lands as bonus. America is a fluke of history.
New Silk Road anew links Asia with Europe. Soon it will be extended to Africa. Contiguous landmass of the 3 continents will contain over 90% of globe’s population. Free movement of goods, people, and money over land.
In this Emerging World Order, Americas, Australia, Japan, England are distant islands away from action, un-linked to civilization. Unable to participate fully in future we will act as England/Japan did in the past, spoilers, disrupt world trade and world peace through aggression.
We will not succeed. Global stakes are just too high for China, India, Russia, Brazil, South Africa.
For 2,000 years (300BC – 1700AD) both India and China each produced 1/4 to 1/3 of world wealth, the rest (Africa, Europe, Kaliphate) remaining 1/3.
Asia trade with Europe via Silk Road existed for millennia. But from 7th century Muslim Kaliphate set shop in the middle, imposed transit Tariff (an Arabic word), milking China, India, Europe. Living off others through power became Muslim pastime, decimating its own industry as we do today.
Europe, cold, northern continent, is food-poorest, must trade to survive. Crusades to liberate trade failed. 100 famines around 1300 AD. Muslims starved Christians to half.
In 1453 Turks took Constantinople, and then best lands in Europe making Tariff spurious, so blocked trade altogether. Desperate Europe, forced to find new route to Asia got new lands as bonus. America is a fluke of history.
New Silk Road anew links Asia with Europe. Soon it will be extended to Africa. Contiguous landmass of the 3 continents will contain over 90% of globe’s population. Free movement of goods, people, and money over land.
In this Emerging World Order, Americas, Australia, Japan, England are distant islands away from action, un-linked to civilization. Unable to participate fully in future we will act as England/Japan did in the past, spoilers, disrupt world trade and world peace through aggression.
We will not succeed. Global stakes are just too high for China, India, Russia, Brazil, South Africa.
1
I am not inclined to research Jim Yardley's age or credentials but I think he misses a salient point. Those of us who have decades old ties to the Old Continent, who frequent there and who are of multi-ethnic background know a fundamental truth: the British reluctantly entered the EU and have been threatening a separation since entry. Yes, there are many faults in the single union, and I am not about to enumerate them. The fact remains that the EU is an extraordinary assemblage of multi-nationalism and multi-cultures. Some say it's an experiment, I say it's way beyond and is here to stay. Much to the chagrin of the British, and I must admit, many in the US. I really don't see much love expressed by successive US administrations for the EU because it is a challenge to US economic supremacy. I regard the UK as an extension of the US interests, particularly militarily, as it has supported our adventures overseas far more readily, if not in defiance, of the rest of Europe. I wish the UK well in the next Brexited state. I am just not going to be one who wants to see them back.
2
If I recall my history, it seems that 'angry nationalism' saved Great Britain, and much of Western Europe, from the twin scourges of Communism and National Socialism (Nazism) in the last century.
'angry nationalism' brought down the Third Reich, why in the world would Britain concede to the creation of the Fourth?
'angry nationalism' brought down the Third Reich, why in the world would Britain concede to the creation of the Fourth?
9
Donald Trump will be persona non grata in Britain whether Brexit happens or not. See, the Republican nominee actually is a unifier!
1
The European idea shouldn't be a responsibility for so called experts rather an ongoing challenge and personal obligation for ALL Europeans at the same time. Sure, what the technocrats in Brussels are botching is aggravating but ultimately of secondary importance. What matters ONLY is the political willpower of the citizens in Europe to keep the continent on track.
Yardley omits the obvious: the threat of terrorism. The EU has been blind to this forever. The Eurocrats did not prepare, as if the millions of immigrants that political and economic imperialism brought to Europe would magically integrate without energetic and well funded social safety nets and educational programs directed against racism and cultural stereotypes. The post-1989 rush to expand EU membership without requiring applicant countries to build effective constitutional cultures of human rights before granting admission has proven lethal to the project.
5
This year the EU sold its soul to Turkey to get rid of the Syrian refugees. It showed what the EU is, always has been, and what it will be: hypocritical liars. It really never existed.
11
“What has happened to you, Europe, the mother of peoples and nations, the mother of great men and women who upheld, and even sacrificed their lives for, the dignity of their brothers and sisters?”
Did they teach anything about European history prior to 1950 in Argentinian schools? Who saved the Jews,Czechs,Poles? Who repatriated Europeans fleeing the Soviets immediately following WWII?
''Nigel Farage, the U.K. Independence Party leader, who favors leaving the European Union, recently unveiled a poster showing a parade of brown-skinned migrants.''
This caption also could have been written like this. Recently unveiled a poster showing a parade of culturally isolated migrants who have no use for assimilation,gay,womens,Christian or Jewish rights, who would replace the democracy of their host countries with Muslim theocracy in a heart beat.But that would be biased.
Did they teach anything about European history prior to 1950 in Argentinian schools? Who saved the Jews,Czechs,Poles? Who repatriated Europeans fleeing the Soviets immediately following WWII?
''Nigel Farage, the U.K. Independence Party leader, who favors leaving the European Union, recently unveiled a poster showing a parade of brown-skinned migrants.''
This caption also could have been written like this. Recently unveiled a poster showing a parade of culturally isolated migrants who have no use for assimilation,gay,womens,Christian or Jewish rights, who would replace the democracy of their host countries with Muslim theocracy in a heart beat.But that would be biased.
19
That would be bigoted and biased as well along the lines of the KKK which contributed nothing good in this land. We let your ancestors into this Continent which originally belonged to Native Americans of Asiatic descent didnt we?
1
On an emotional level, it's easy to see why many Brits are in favor of the Brexit. The lack of sovereignty and a feeling that many of the most important issues of the day are being handled in Brussels, instead of Parliament and Downing Street must be irritating at best.
However, exiting the European Union would be like untangling a spider web without causing severe damage to it. What's done probably can't be undone but with some effort, the way things are done in the EU, might be fixable.
However, exiting the European Union would be like untangling a spider web without causing severe damage to it. What's done probably can't be undone but with some effort, the way things are done in the EU, might be fixable.
3
I think it's worth noting that there are few leaders of Western nations who favor Brexit. It's most noteworthy supporters outside the UK are President Putin and one Donald J. Trump. That shouldn't be surprising as Presudent Putin hopes that both the EU and NATO to weaken and fold and Mr. Trump is utilizing the same regressive populism that fuels some of the Brexit movement. In fact, the demographics of pro Brexit voters look similar to pro Trump voters. Both the Brexit and Trump movements signal a klaxon for modern Western economies. Global capitalism is failing to create a viable option to allow for the distribution of wealth through wage growth. The EU has additional woes, as noted in the article. But many of the wedge issues being taken up by actors like the UKIP and Trump would have little traction if people saw the wealth accumulated by the proverbial 1% (really more like the top .025%) distributed in a manner that enriched the lives of working people.
3
"Brexit’ Vote Reflects Damaged Credibility of European Union"?
Doesn't it also reflect the "damaged credibility" of pretty much ANY experts, authorities, and especially world-wide economists or 'financial experts' (including IMF and World-Bank)?
Rightly or wrongly, there's a tremendous skepticism about the statements, predictions, and viewpoints of international experts, particularly on the economy, banking, and trade. In short, few of us trust 'experts' and take their statements at face-value. In such a climate, it's hard to know what/who to believe, so we're all skeptical (or utterly disbelieving).
Added to that uncertainty, is the clear exploitation of this uncertainly and crisis of authority by demagogues and those who clearly have ulterior motives. In a climate where nobody trusts traditional sources of legitimate 'authority' (intellectual, governmental, even scientific), all sorts of ungenerous ideas and characters take hold.
Whatever the merits of Brexit, there are larger issues at play too.
Doesn't it also reflect the "damaged credibility" of pretty much ANY experts, authorities, and especially world-wide economists or 'financial experts' (including IMF and World-Bank)?
Rightly or wrongly, there's a tremendous skepticism about the statements, predictions, and viewpoints of international experts, particularly on the economy, banking, and trade. In short, few of us trust 'experts' and take their statements at face-value. In such a climate, it's hard to know what/who to believe, so we're all skeptical (or utterly disbelieving).
Added to that uncertainty, is the clear exploitation of this uncertainly and crisis of authority by demagogues and those who clearly have ulterior motives. In a climate where nobody trusts traditional sources of legitimate 'authority' (intellectual, governmental, even scientific), all sorts of ungenerous ideas and characters take hold.
Whatever the merits of Brexit, there are larger issues at play too.
5
You mention the IMF. After Germany shoved its terrible "deal" down Greece's that, it was revealed that the IMF felt it was too draconian. But went along with it.
With records like that, who would but their support in these institutions? They would rather capitulate to a bully nation than do their mandate or the right thing.
With records like that, who would but their support in these institutions? They would rather capitulate to a bully nation than do their mandate or the right thing.
5
Without supra-national institutions Europe is a very dangerous place. Already ethnic nationalism and blood and soil conservatism are making a comeback. These are the failed ideas that caused Europeans to destroy their world twice in 50 years. They cannot be trusted to govern themselves without institutions like the EU, EZ and NATO.
It's little wonder that so much of the EU's current problems emanate from the obstinacy and moral superiority of the German government, especially Wolfgang Schuable. Let's hope vigorous demand for reform will move the EU to a better, more secure place with Germany reduced to an equal among equals.
It's little wonder that so much of the EU's current problems emanate from the obstinacy and moral superiority of the German government, especially Wolfgang Schuable. Let's hope vigorous demand for reform will move the EU to a better, more secure place with Germany reduced to an equal among equals.
3
If anyone is to blame for the current crisis, it is Angela Merkel. Her austerity program has driven Greece to its knees and into total poverty. A loose comment caused a migration crisis by saying Germany would take all Syrians who came. They came from all over the middle East in huge crowds walking through the Balkans to Germany.
MOst countries did not want these Migrants. Merkel first tried to force EU members to take quota Merkel set. They said NO. Next was a deal with Turkey to stop the flow to Greece. Nothing has been done about the flow from Libya to Italy. Italy is mad and wants something done.
The UK is trying to prevent any migrants from coming to its shores. and to reduce EU members who come looking for work. EU members have taken many jobs in the UK and locals claim that they have stolen jobs. depressed wages and put a strain on local budgets. Cameron has been unable to reduce the number of EU citizens coming although he has promised to do so. Now UK citizens want out of the EU.
The EU is unpopular as well as being undemocratic. With Brussels setting up laws on everything from the curve of the banana to how you raise your chickens, or what name you may give to your cheesel
Also it has the power to overrule laws passed by local parliament thus threatening the sovereignty of the county. Citizens of the UK are fed up with Europe and Cameron has given them a chance to vote on EU membership.
The UK will vote this Thursday on whether to remain or leave the EU.
MOst countries did not want these Migrants. Merkel first tried to force EU members to take quota Merkel set. They said NO. Next was a deal with Turkey to stop the flow to Greece. Nothing has been done about the flow from Libya to Italy. Italy is mad and wants something done.
The UK is trying to prevent any migrants from coming to its shores. and to reduce EU members who come looking for work. EU members have taken many jobs in the UK and locals claim that they have stolen jobs. depressed wages and put a strain on local budgets. Cameron has been unable to reduce the number of EU citizens coming although he has promised to do so. Now UK citizens want out of the EU.
The EU is unpopular as well as being undemocratic. With Brussels setting up laws on everything from the curve of the banana to how you raise your chickens, or what name you may give to your cheesel
Also it has the power to overrule laws passed by local parliament thus threatening the sovereignty of the county. Citizens of the UK are fed up with Europe and Cameron has given them a chance to vote on EU membership.
The UK will vote this Thursday on whether to remain or leave the EU.
20
But isn't the idea of such a union to eventually give way to a pan-European identity? These days the west is almost entirely culturally homogenous, unlike Asia and Africa. Proponents of brexit and other nationalists across the continent seem to not understand this goal. Sadly this is the case with many people who cannot see beyond their 'village'. It's exactly like the US idea, not even Americans like me truly identify themselves by their state (unless you from NYC ;) ). This is because of a century and a half of integration of individual states and the mostly correct use of our federal government to bind the states together into a cohesive unit. It is our strength, not weakness that I can move from NY to CA if I want to search for a job- yet that is what these nationalists claim. Like Ben Franklin said- together we live, separate we die.
2
This nonsense about the EU's lack of democracy is tiresome. In the UK bureaucrats are not elected either. A union of 28 democratic nations plus a European Parliament and a council of elected leaders: how much more democracy do you want? An unelected upper chamber or maybe an unelected president whose kids will inherit the office?
I recommend your comments with the caveat that residents do identify with their states and other states they have resided in. I am not sure why this but it is.
1
The entire EU and their ilk should be abolished and turned back into nation states that enjoy their sovereignty not rule by nameless faceless bureaucrats who suppress individual freedom.
10
Unelected bureaucrats? As opposed to all those UK bureaucrats who are elected...? Can you please provide us with the name and function of a single UK bureaucrat who was elected by popular vote into his/her job? Just one will do.
The ‘Remain’ campaign's #1 champion, Labour party leader Jeremy Corbyn admitted this morning on the BBC’s Andrew Marr show a vote to remain as member of the European Union (EU) would mean NO limit to migration to the United Kingdom. During the interview, Mr. Corbyn conceded that the major draw for migrants to come to the UK was due to “lower living standards and poverty in certain countries in the southeast and eastern Europe” which was bound to cause a “flow of people looking for somewhere else to go”.
At least 1.6 million migrants have moved to the UK in the past decade, and another 2.6 to five million migrants are predicted to migrate to live in the UK in the next 15 years if the Remain campaign prevails.
Mr. Corbyn’s continued support for Britain’s membership of the EU and its uncontrolled mass migration is all the more distasteful, because the goals of the Remain camp are contrary to Labour’s values. It has been widely reported that cheap labour from the poorer regions of the EU is causing UK wages to be pushed down —undermining the working class Britons that Mr. Corbyn’s party believes it represents. Mr. Corbyn, it seems, is just another left-leaning politician who has lost his way.
In any case, it's clear that the EU has become a failed experiment. UK citizens should vote to Leave. Regain UK sovereignty before it's too late.
At least 1.6 million migrants have moved to the UK in the past decade, and another 2.6 to five million migrants are predicted to migrate to live in the UK in the next 15 years if the Remain campaign prevails.
Mr. Corbyn’s continued support for Britain’s membership of the EU and its uncontrolled mass migration is all the more distasteful, because the goals of the Remain camp are contrary to Labour’s values. It has been widely reported that cheap labour from the poorer regions of the EU is causing UK wages to be pushed down —undermining the working class Britons that Mr. Corbyn’s party believes it represents. Mr. Corbyn, it seems, is just another left-leaning politician who has lost his way.
In any case, it's clear that the EU has become a failed experiment. UK citizens should vote to Leave. Regain UK sovereignty before it's too late.
13
Why should Europe destroy one good thing in order to appease the general West's mistake in the Middle East? Instead of disbanding the EU or Britain leaving they should take a greater role to stop the violence in Syria, Iraq, and Libya. That will stop their migrant problem me even cause an emigration wave as people return home to rebuild their lives and wealth. Most migrants are in Europe only for safety, not to get jobs though it is the obvious effect.
1
The migration from Africa to Italy in substandard overpacked boats is not just because of violence in Libya. The violence in Africa extends south beyond Libya to countries on the western coast of Africa and to Somalia on the eastern coast. The violence in Africa is related to the violence in the Middle East. The cause of the violence driving emigration needs to be solved and Brexit will not solve it nor will breaking up the European Union. I have no idea how to solve the problems but they need solving and solving them should be a priority above proper naming of cheeses and creating rules on raising chickens. If the European Union fails, I fear war in Europe is inevitable too and it will not be a cold war.
1
I second. The EU did not create the Syrian wave of refugees across the Aegean. The failed Syrian Arab Spring did. And they would arrive on the Greek islands as long as some rickety boat takes them there alive.
1
19th Century concept of European Supremacy is near to end finally. Rivalry of France, Britain and Germany already ruined Europe during two bad WWs 1914-18 and 1939-45. After those European conflicts USA, naturally replaced all. The situation is again same and the third European conflict is ready to break the womb. The narrative of European Supremacy starts from Greek mythology and ends at so-called industrial revolution and hero of this narrative was English man but the pride of this English man is under question since Atlantic Charter of 14 August 1947. English man remained silent during cold war yet he had a dream for revival in post cold war era but she failed to monitor rise of China. It was same mistake she did during first two European conflicts during first half of 20th century that resulted in rise of US. Instead of revisit her bad policies and false pride , the English channel is again raising tensions and conflicts in Europe which will prove counter productive again. What future historian will right? i-e they failed to resolve refugee issue? they failed to unite Europe? they could not make single currency etc The missing portion in this article is absence of Offshore syndrome, strengthen in post cold war time yet criticized by EU since 200 consistently. This offshore money is a major force of RRE, racist, rightest extremists.
Correct the date of Atlantic charter and that is 14 August 1941
The source of the anger and angst on both side of the Atlantic is simple -- there has been a failure of economic policy in both the US and the UK for the last 30-40 years. Whether in the Rust Belt of the American midwest, the coal pits of Wales, or any number of communities which don't have the fortune of tech businesses or finance, there is little economic opportunity available.
Politicians of all stripes and colors have failed the consituents that they purport to serve. Trump and Johnson offer nothing useful in the way of solutions except a useful pressure valve for those who feel left behind. Decades of GDP growth have done nothing for those outside of the 1%, and political nihilism is all that's left for many.
I'm pro-remain, as an American living in London. I'm pro-Hillary (or Bernie), as a fact-based, thinking human.
However, I understand the other sides. Why in the world should we expect people getting kicked, ignored, demolished by untrammeled crony capitalism and globalization to vote for more of the same? It's a choice between terrible and worse for many, but worse perhaps offers a glimpse of self-determination.
Politicians of all stripes and colors have failed the consituents that they purport to serve. Trump and Johnson offer nothing useful in the way of solutions except a useful pressure valve for those who feel left behind. Decades of GDP growth have done nothing for those outside of the 1%, and political nihilism is all that's left for many.
I'm pro-remain, as an American living in London. I'm pro-Hillary (or Bernie), as a fact-based, thinking human.
However, I understand the other sides. Why in the world should we expect people getting kicked, ignored, demolished by untrammeled crony capitalism and globalization to vote for more of the same? It's a choice between terrible and worse for many, but worse perhaps offers a glimpse of self-determination.
7
I never really thought of the worse choice as offering hope but I do believe you are right. Still, I can't seem to be ok with the racism shown by such candidates and their constituents.
1
The NYT has spent more time and ink on Brexit than the TPP agreement.
And just like the TPP the more corporations, banks/financiers back it, the more you know it's bad for the rest of us.
And just like the TPP the more corporations, banks/financiers back it, the more you know it's bad for the rest of us.
16
Hey, if it's good for bankster Jamie Dimon, it's good for the rest of us!
3
Not unlike HC accolades already blaming Bernie for a potential loss come November, this author a priori blames the EU for a potential Brexit next week.
The EU may need plenty fixes and will always remain a work in progress of sovereign nations collectively seeking to facilitate trade with stable prices and promoting the free movement of people and goods, fostering common goals among members and friendships among their peoples. Regardless of the union's anemic muddling-through approach to policy and its leanings toward seemingly heavy-handed bureaucracy, progress has been made over the past decades. There has been no shortage of new candidates.
Recognizing the difficulties of developing strong consensus amongst such economically- and culturally-diverse independent member nations, how can the union be blamed for an uncoordinated response to the migrant crisis?
How can EU members be faulted for taking advantage of job opportunities in wealthier member nations which was the main reason for some to join in the first place?
How can the EU be blamed for accepting members into the euro zone whose governments were blatantly cooking the books, only to shamelessly abuse EU loans?
How can the EU be blamed for the loss of British world dominance?
Perhaps staying in, strengthening Strasburg over Brussels, may be more effective than leaving. But Brexit is for the Britons to decide next week. Either way, the EU will continue muddling through successfully as it always has.
The EU may need plenty fixes and will always remain a work in progress of sovereign nations collectively seeking to facilitate trade with stable prices and promoting the free movement of people and goods, fostering common goals among members and friendships among their peoples. Regardless of the union's anemic muddling-through approach to policy and its leanings toward seemingly heavy-handed bureaucracy, progress has been made over the past decades. There has been no shortage of new candidates.
Recognizing the difficulties of developing strong consensus amongst such economically- and culturally-diverse independent member nations, how can the union be blamed for an uncoordinated response to the migrant crisis?
How can EU members be faulted for taking advantage of job opportunities in wealthier member nations which was the main reason for some to join in the first place?
How can the EU be blamed for accepting members into the euro zone whose governments were blatantly cooking the books, only to shamelessly abuse EU loans?
How can the EU be blamed for the loss of British world dominance?
Perhaps staying in, strengthening Strasburg over Brussels, may be more effective than leaving. But Brexit is for the Britons to decide next week. Either way, the EU will continue muddling through successfully as it always has.
• Regardless of ‘Brexit’ Vote, Experts Say, E.U. Must Rethink Status Quo...
...as the United States relishes and celebrates every conceivable, imagined, hoped for failure of the EU.
“It’s called the ‘American dream’ but you have to be asleep to believe it.”
~ GEORGE CARLIN
What more disastrous "flawed approach to migration" than the US approach to the catastrophe IT created 15 years ago and the flood of refugees it conveniently ignores now. Just listen to Donald Trump's anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim vituperative invectives.
• ...it is an article of faith that the bloc always emerges stronger from a crisis.
And it WILL emerge stronger without Britain, a constant obstacle and a US proxy, to tread where it (the US) isn't welcome and is not accepted.
“That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.” ~ Friedrich Nietzsche
• ...if Britain does leave, the European Union can...
...breathe a sigh of relief.
Strengthen the EU through cooperation, self-determination and no outsider intervention.
The MONROE "DOCTRINE", which the US thinks enables it to interfere at whim globally, has no place outside the Western Hemisphere – or even in it. It's biggest failure, for that matter was ignoring and allowing the British invasion of the Malvinas in 1982 – tit for tat, one hand washing the other.
Good riddance, depleted, obstructive, entitled Mini Britain.
Next to go, Ossified NATO.
...as the United States relishes and celebrates every conceivable, imagined, hoped for failure of the EU.
“It’s called the ‘American dream’ but you have to be asleep to believe it.”
~ GEORGE CARLIN
What more disastrous "flawed approach to migration" than the US approach to the catastrophe IT created 15 years ago and the flood of refugees it conveniently ignores now. Just listen to Donald Trump's anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim vituperative invectives.
• ...it is an article of faith that the bloc always emerges stronger from a crisis.
And it WILL emerge stronger without Britain, a constant obstacle and a US proxy, to tread where it (the US) isn't welcome and is not accepted.
“That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.” ~ Friedrich Nietzsche
• ...if Britain does leave, the European Union can...
...breathe a sigh of relief.
Strengthen the EU through cooperation, self-determination and no outsider intervention.
The MONROE "DOCTRINE", which the US thinks enables it to interfere at whim globally, has no place outside the Western Hemisphere – or even in it. It's biggest failure, for that matter was ignoring and allowing the British invasion of the Malvinas in 1982 – tit for tat, one hand washing the other.
Good riddance, depleted, obstructive, entitled Mini Britain.
Next to go, Ossified NATO.
4
Thumbs up...I said so somewhere in these comments, but you say it better.
''The MONROE "DOCTRINE", which the US thinks enables it to interfere at whim globally, has no place outside the Western Hemisphere – or even in it. It's biggest failure, for that matter was ignoring and allowing the British invasion of the Malvinas in 1982 – tit for tat, one hand washing the other.''
In the first sentence you criticize US interference,in the second you criticize US non interference.It's easy to be right about everything when you want everything your way.
In the first sentence you criticize US interference,in the second you criticize US non interference.It's easy to be right about everything when you want everything your way.
5
The British were defending their citizens of the Falkland Islands that were invaded by hostile forces thinking they could sneakily do so.
3
It's hard to see how the EU will overcome its institutional dysfunction as long as the people in its constituent nation-states aren't sure whether they're first citizens of those states, or Europeans. Indeed, do Belgians and Italians and Austrians and so on agree on a vision of "Europe"?
The car that is the EU is being built ad hoc as it's rolling down the road, but some of the passengers seem carsick and everybody wants to steer.
The car that is the EU is being built ad hoc as it's rolling down the road, but some of the passengers seem carsick and everybody wants to steer.
6
Yes...! And we are actually driving BMWs, Audis, and Mercs. You are welcome to puff down the motorway in you Ford.
The Tower of Babel?
3
The EU is integral to NATO. When NATO needed European sanctions against Russian who did they turn to? The EU. EU sanctions against Russia have proved very successful. Putin is desperate to get them rescinded. Russian trades much more with the EU than it does with the United States; US sanctions have not had the impact the EU sanctions have. That is why Putin is supporting the Far Right Parties in Europe, including financing them. Russia has loaned lots of money to the National Front in France, and they just finished first in the Presidential Elections there. By EU rules, it must be unanimous to instigate and maintain sanctions. France could break this unanimity, a big victory for Russia. Of course the Far Right wants Great Britain to exit the EU; the Far Right are Russian stooges.
We continue to be naive, thinking over and over we have it all figured out, are surprised when 'stuff' happens and reluctantly have to address it, change course, change the approach. This happened in the U.S. in the 1970s with stagflation; economists thought they had it all figured out, flattening the business cycle, having a strong economy without heating it up, but were wrong, just as many were wrong again leading up to the 2007 financial crisis. So, Europe will run into snags every now and then and should be prepared to deal with them. The tension of a single currency but multiple fiscal policies, however, will continue to be a problem.
1
The feckless statists in Brussels deserve the coming storm of rejection, realignment and rapid degeneration of their unholy, Bildeberger-inspired takeover of the continent. Their instruments, an unelected elite and the Euro, have succeeded in destroying the economies of Southern Europe, and this mass migration - also a tool of the global criminal elite - is intended to destroy all independent nations and their cultures. Something may be happening on the way to the forum however. If the coming political revolution is not permitted to blossom, then the violent revolution coming in a few short years will make the point with indiscriminate punctuation. The thinking that led to this is alive and plotting in this country as well. When the regional breakup presents itself remember to congratulate yourselves, you believers of the propaganda these pages foists on you.
14
Lack of productivity, corruption, bloated state salaries/industries, and rigid labor laws fueled by debt have destroyed the Southern European economies. This is due to the better credit worthiness of the Northern economies. Greece would never have been able to borrow a fraction of what they did outside of the EU. Economic union without political union is a recipe for disaster as recent events have shown.
1
Let's also remember that the northern European exporting economies benefitted GREATLY from the Euro currency and were desperate to include as many European nations as possible.
Without the southern nations, the Euro would be valued MUCH higher and as such, not such a good competitive currency for the northern Europeans. Germany's DeutscheMark would have been like the Swiss franc - uncompetitive on the world stage due to its being too strong.
Without the southern nations, the Euro would be valued MUCH higher and as such, not such a good competitive currency for the northern Europeans. Germany's DeutscheMark would have been like the Swiss franc - uncompetitive on the world stage due to its being too strong.
4
Frankly, I don´t see the point of this article. And I wonder, given the remarkable Trump fiver inside the US if the same article will be written soon with a new head-line and some changed words...about Texit (Texas leaving the Union) or the USA breaking up. A real possibility.
Americans under G.W. Bush created the biggest refugee crises by attacking Iraq, destroying not only the country and killing many people, they also created a massive instability - yes, they got rid of Saddam Hussein. This created a chain reaction, in a way also the Arab spring, Syria, and a new powerful Iran, supported by Russia. But the US is very keen on letting Europe deal alone with the refugee crises. Accountability is something different - the US foreign policies failed in a way never seen before in the last two decades. Brexit is more or less about the same issue - an egocentric view of one country ( here sort of Mr. has been) and its contribution to the world (here to Europe). Mr. Cameron blackmailed the EU more or less, threatening to leave, because he thought the British are better out, but they were never really IN the EU, that was just the problem. Now he is hunted by the ghosts he called. In a way, well deserved.
Americans under G.W. Bush created the biggest refugee crises by attacking Iraq, destroying not only the country and killing many people, they also created a massive instability - yes, they got rid of Saddam Hussein. This created a chain reaction, in a way also the Arab spring, Syria, and a new powerful Iran, supported by Russia. But the US is very keen on letting Europe deal alone with the refugee crises. Accountability is something different - the US foreign policies failed in a way never seen before in the last two decades. Brexit is more or less about the same issue - an egocentric view of one country ( here sort of Mr. has been) and its contribution to the world (here to Europe). Mr. Cameron blackmailed the EU more or less, threatening to leave, because he thought the British are better out, but they were never really IN the EU, that was just the problem. Now he is hunted by the ghosts he called. In a way, well deserved.
4
Don't blame "Americans" as a whole. Millions of us, in fact, the majority, never voted for G.W. Bush or Cheney. Millions of us were against Iraq (even assuming they had WMD), since they had not attacked the United States. Sadly Hillary Clinton was not with us and we now see the neo-cons who orchestrated Iraq flocking to her side (Bob Kagan, Max Boot, etc). We would support proper justice that would have a proper criminal investigation into 9/11, regardless of where the search for truth led, not to mention require the Bush and Cheney families to personally host every single refugee in their homes and towns so they could face accountability for their actions.
3
In analogy, we blame The Germans for starting WWII. Some did, some didn't.
2
Mr. Melzer, I don´t want to charge or add up, I think the issues are too important, but I read your comment like this, so let me be clear: I think it is right to blame Germany for starting WWII, even its a complex issue, but Hitler clearly started this horror by attacking Poland. This is deeply engraved in our nations political and moral conscience. WWII and the Holocoust were crimes against humanity, to be clear. And we as a nation tried to make things right after the horrors of WWII. This was possible, because we do not live in denial. But winning WWII or "being exceptional" does not give the USA any moral authority or immunity for its own crimes against humanity. And looking into this matter, many of you inside the USA live in denial, when it comes to the Iraq war and what is(was) right and what is(was) wrong about it. If you want so, Mr. Trump is the living personification of living in denial: Loud, brash, vulgar, a bully and a racists with some very crude ideas about walls, international politics and international trade. Looks more like the USA is at risk of committing suicide on international stage. And coming back to the refugee crises, we have to deal with this here in Europe, because the USA started a war which never ended, and many in the US live in denial, when it comes to accountability and responsibility. So take in your fair share of Syrian refugees - I think its only fair, because you started this mess - not the Europeans, not the Germans.
No mention here of the reason the floodgates to Italy and consequently the rest of Europe came wide open: the removal of who kept the floodgates closed. With him gone, the warring factions whom our S of S Mrs. Clinton was so meager to suppor ty in
2
goodbye camembert, hello stilton
3
Ugh.
1
No treacle anymore, no plum pudding on the Continent? :(
One man's "xenophobia" may be another man's attempt to keep his job. It all depends on who is doing the defining. Here in the U.S., many who are in privileged positions with good salaries assume that those trying to keep a roof over their family's head are "racist" about immigration, when this is just not the case.
From all the panic over the Brits voting for exit, it seems pretty obvious that the bankers and establishment don't like it, nor the media that support them. Something telling in that.
From all the panic over the Brits voting for exit, it seems pretty obvious that the bankers and establishment don't like it, nor the media that support them. Something telling in that.
23
Brexit would be a win for the politics of fear, nationalism and and xenophobia. Newspapers in the UK and a few cynical politicians have run a campaign of misinformation and lies. It is depressing and alarming to see how easily voters can be manipulated and an object lesson in why referenda are a bad idea for a representative democracy.
1
In the name of "diversity" and "multiculturalism" the left attempts to force tribes with vastly different cultures, values, language and traditions to live together for no other reason than to show how "advanced" and superior they are over what they call racist and bigoted opponents. The left will always seek their ideal world order where we are one big happy family. Good luck with that. (BTW: doesn't the left still to this day blame white Europeans for breaking up the American Indian tribes who just wanted to be left alone?)
23
Sure. It's all the fault of the Left -- and nothing to do with big business wanting to import cheap labor. (Haven't you noticed that immigration doesn't go down even when rightist parties are in power: this is true of both the US and UK.)
8
EDdie--WHERE have you been? With your head in a hole? What a thoughtless comment.
1
@ChesBay
Ed is correct. To what end do governments force cultures to integrate as a social experiment? If left alone, would they choose it? I dare say they would not.
Ed is correct. To what end do governments force cultures to integrate as a social experiment? If left alone, would they choose it? I dare say they would not.
5
Bottom line: Europe existed for centuries before the EU, and it will continue to exist after the EU. The EU was an experiment that failed, just like European communism. Hopefully Britain will muster the courage to be the first to leave and others will follow.
19
How did the EU fail, exactly? By being the largest economy. By producing the world's largest pile of excess cash (current account surplus), by maintaining the peace for sixty years, by fostering a European identity, by being a humanitarian superpower? Pray do enlighten me instead of just stating a conclusion without producing do much as a shred of evidence for the assertion.
The U.S. constitution was ratified in 1788. Can you imagine if our new union had to face the financial crisis/crimes of 2008, mass bailouts of the banks and capital markets, the gross redistribution of wealth to the top 1%, declining median wages for workers, and zero growth for eight years?
Not many unions or confederations could survive these conditions.
Not many unions or confederations could survive these conditions.
9
The problem facing the European Union is that the dream "of stitching warring nations into a peaceful whole," was abandoned long ago. The war remains, but competition for economic dominance has replaced armed combat.
The Greece is nearing economic oblivion due to imposition of what even the IMF realized were unrealistic debt repayment demands. But Volkswagen, who broke the most fundamental social and legal contracts for profit, remains intact despite deceit and lawlessness that would have bankrupted a company less important to the German economy.
If there is "self-delusion," it is on the part of an elitist, corporate, political class who believe the triumph of profit and liberal capitalism is more important than democracy. If the Greeks had foreseen the privations and economic devastation that remaining in the monetary union has caused, Grexit would have proceeded Brexit. If Brexit occurs, it may lead to revival of original inspiration for the European Union, not following the elections of 2017, but now.
The Greece is nearing economic oblivion due to imposition of what even the IMF realized were unrealistic debt repayment demands. But Volkswagen, who broke the most fundamental social and legal contracts for profit, remains intact despite deceit and lawlessness that would have bankrupted a company less important to the German economy.
If there is "self-delusion," it is on the part of an elitist, corporate, political class who believe the triumph of profit and liberal capitalism is more important than democracy. If the Greeks had foreseen the privations and economic devastation that remaining in the monetary union has caused, Grexit would have proceeded Brexit. If Brexit occurs, it may lead to revival of original inspiration for the European Union, not following the elections of 2017, but now.
10
In fairness, Greece lied about its intentions and financial situation, but the banks should have dug up the information, and ended up preying upon Greece. Both parties were at fault. The stronger party should be doing more to alleviate Greece's suffering. I think they've learned their lesson. I'm sure the banks have learned their lesson.
1
Umm, "the banks" (see: Goldman Sachs) were the original obfuscators for the Greek Gov't back in 2002. I have yet to see any indication that "the banks" have learned *any* lessons from what they did. After all, GS made a tidy sum helping Greece set up their cross-currency swaps - and made another tidy sum selling them on to a Greek bank in 2005.
2
The Government of Greece cooked the books to get in in the first place. Moreover, Greek voters could have decided to exit. The nation bears the greatest responsibility in her fate. Everything else is scapegoating.
The millions of migrants arriving on Greece's islands are not of Chancellor Merkel's making. They are leaving their homes, because the Arab Spring failed. Without German generosity, a million Syrians alone would be stuck in Greece with no other place to go.
The millions of migrants arriving on Greece's islands are not of Chancellor Merkel's making. They are leaving their homes, because the Arab Spring failed. Without German generosity, a million Syrians alone would be stuck in Greece with no other place to go.
1
One big reason for lack of cohesion and solidarity within the EU is the economic predominance of and bullying by Germany. Everyone hates us, and with good reason. We started and lost two world wars, but never lost our arrogance and bizarre belief in our innate superiority. The recent Volkswagen diesel scandal showed what we really are: a bunch of cheating scoundrels.
7
It's a go-go culture. They don't seem to know when to let anything go. I have a German friend, who's been here since the 60's. She's 80, and never stops. Go, Go, Go!
2
This very same day NYT runs a splashy editorial, "Does Fear-Mongering Still Work?" Sure it does, and the NYT is working fear-mongering hard to protect the Globalist 1%. We're being treated to a deluge of editorials and articles that make terrifying threats that Brexit means the end of the world. Brexit was surging ahead in the polls by 10% or more until the Jo Cox incident, when all Mainstream Media leaped on that suspiciously fortunate coincidence to hammer home yet again the awfulness of a sovereign nation wishing to maintain its culture and its independence. In addition to fear-mongering, we are also treated to the now-customary accusations of xenophobia, racism, anti-multi-culturalism, colonialism, and assumed stupidity of the average citizen. No, let's strip away the fear-mongering: Globalization is just very, very good for the unbelievably wealthy and powerful world 1%, and sovereign nations must be eliminated to guarantee that in the future, you will be subject to the law of the corporation, with no homeland-nation to protect you. See what comes down the pike.
21
I am sure the EU has some kind of ‘constitution’ that guarantees ‘minority member' rights, that allows for some flexibility to accommodate the wishes of countries who do not buy into the whole EU story, lock-stock-and barrel. In the US, we do that...big state-small state, 'all rights not enumerated are left to the several states.'
I recall as the EU was forming, Brussels was trying to dictate the allowable shapes of wine bottles, and the width of toilet paper rolls. Bad ideas. After all, it is a voluntary union, and most criticism is of Brussels EU HQ overreaching with their Diktats.
I recall as the EU was forming, Brussels was trying to dictate the allowable shapes of wine bottles, and the width of toilet paper rolls. Bad ideas. After all, it is a voluntary union, and most criticism is of Brussels EU HQ overreaching with their Diktats.
5
If all of the unelected, useless, parasitic, self-serving bureaucrats that infest all levels of the EU were eliminated tomorrow the world would be a far better place.
4
Nope. You'd still have your own unelected bureaucrats.who, amongst other accomplishments, produced the world's largest and most complex tax code.
1
What has happened to you, Europe, the conquistador of tribal societies and murderer of countless millions of their members? What has happened to you, Europe, the eradicator of nonhuman species on every continent? What has happened to you, Europe, the all-time champion of fratricidal conflict and genocide?
The ideals created in Europe in medieval and modern times may look good in a museum, but they are hopelessly inadequate for a global society. First, they are completely ethnocentric. Second, they recognize no authority higher than the nation state. Third, they have hypertrophied indiscriminate consumption as the bedrock of economic health. Yes, governments elsewhere adopted those same premises--because they seemed to work for, first Europe, then America. But they are now endangering the future of the entire world.
Of course, if Europe can't save itself, there's little hope that the world can save itself, anyway.
The ideals created in Europe in medieval and modern times may look good in a museum, but they are hopelessly inadequate for a global society. First, they are completely ethnocentric. Second, they recognize no authority higher than the nation state. Third, they have hypertrophied indiscriminate consumption as the bedrock of economic health. Yes, governments elsewhere adopted those same premises--because they seemed to work for, first Europe, then America. But they are now endangering the future of the entire world.
Of course, if Europe can't save itself, there's little hope that the world can save itself, anyway.
3
If there will be a Brexit and the 'EU collapses, there will only be a culprit: Europe. This is not the Europe desired by our founding fathers. It was not necessary to build pharaonic palaces at the center of Europe to form a bureaucracy that legislates laws idiotic, that creates ghosts deputies, with hallucinatory expenses.
It would have been enough to get together in a room containing 200 people, the leaders of the various participating countries, in case of need. Each country must take ownership of its ethnic and historical peculiarities. Every country must have the right to adjust the cash flows according to his needs. The size of the clams and the curvature of bananas, are matters that belong to nature, not the bureaucrats idiots looking for a reason to exist.
But above all we do not need an authority of bankers, who work exclusively in their interest, to tell us what we must do,
We are crushed by taxes, we are burdened with unnecessary regulations and laws, in a few words: we are not free. Revolutions are made to obtain freedom. This is the time of Europe.
It would have been enough to get together in a room containing 200 people, the leaders of the various participating countries, in case of need. Each country must take ownership of its ethnic and historical peculiarities. Every country must have the right to adjust the cash flows according to his needs. The size of the clams and the curvature of bananas, are matters that belong to nature, not the bureaucrats idiots looking for a reason to exist.
But above all we do not need an authority of bankers, who work exclusively in their interest, to tell us what we must do,
We are crushed by taxes, we are burdened with unnecessary regulations and laws, in a few words: we are not free. Revolutions are made to obtain freedom. This is the time of Europe.
9
From England: Mr Yardley, you've written the best short account of the general situation that I've seen yet, one I'm sending to people who aren't much focusing on it, for good perspective. It's Tony Jodt quality. Thank you
Don't forget, we in the United States went through over half a century of bickering and a bloody civil war before we finally cemented our union. And even at that, there has never been an end to the factionalism. Why should we expect things to be so much smoother in Europe?
3
One was created to prevent attacks and the other was to become economically strong. With the rise of the illuminati's socialist liberal pc movement, Europe went insane. Only Britian did not sucumb completely.
4
i don't pretend to know what's best for Great Britain or the E.U. Some aphorisms apply: " Mistakes were made", "Things change". In hindsight all of the issues raised in the article were maybe foreseeable. England certainly foresaw the Eurozone crisis and stayed out. The migrant crisis was less foreseeable and there is no easy solution except to correct the problems in the Middle East and Africa (not easy!). I still remember a cartoon from many years ago showing a poster saying " The Clairvoyant Society will not meet Friday due to unforeseen circumstances".
2
Another anglophone article that fails to grasp just what the EU has accomplished over the last few decades.
In 1970 all the following countries were dictatorships, or under communist rule: Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Estonia, Greece, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain.
All of them are now full fledged democracies and EU members. And coming from one of those countries, I do think that the EU membership carrot stick really helped things. It gave people a goal, a strong reason to improve institutions, a promise that your country can have a place in the modern in world provided it becomes a democracy, respects human rights, and meets some criteria when it comes to self-governance and economic development.
In the UK people don't see this (and probably in the US). But there are regions of the world that are immeasurably better and more stable thanks to the EU.
The UK benefits from this by being part of much more stable and richer continent then would otherwise be the case. And it is right for the UK to benefit from this, since it has helped it happen.
Leaving the EU would be abandoning this legacy to a great extent.
As for economic crisis, the EU has not solved those, but who has?
And as for immigration in the UK. There is shortage of housing, as the UK has been building very few new houses for decades now (in 1971 ~400 000 houses got built; last year ~140 000 got built). The migrants are not to blame for this.
In 1970 all the following countries were dictatorships, or under communist rule: Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Estonia, Greece, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain.
All of them are now full fledged democracies and EU members. And coming from one of those countries, I do think that the EU membership carrot stick really helped things. It gave people a goal, a strong reason to improve institutions, a promise that your country can have a place in the modern in world provided it becomes a democracy, respects human rights, and meets some criteria when it comes to self-governance and economic development.
In the UK people don't see this (and probably in the US). But there are regions of the world that are immeasurably better and more stable thanks to the EU.
The UK benefits from this by being part of much more stable and richer continent then would otherwise be the case. And it is right for the UK to benefit from this, since it has helped it happen.
Leaving the EU would be abandoning this legacy to a great extent.
As for economic crisis, the EU has not solved those, but who has?
And as for immigration in the UK. There is shortage of housing, as the UK has been building very few new houses for decades now (in 1971 ~400 000 houses got built; last year ~140 000 got built). The migrants are not to blame for this.
4
This is a valuable point about the transition from communist dictatorships to modern democracies which I have not seen mentioned often in the debate. That said, as to immigration, real estate developers who want to profit from endless new housing will always claim a shortage of housing everywhere and anywhere. They will push for totally open borders so there will be endless stream of new buyers or renters of their shoddy new buildings. Insane population growth, whether from high birth rates or huge numbers of migrants is not ecologically sustainable. In the US, California went from 20 million to 40 million in a few decades and they are now paying the price with severe water crisis, choking on horrible air quality, the worst traffic in America, etc. If we do not follow the laws of nature, nature will take care of it for us.
3
Tribalism is deeply embedded in all of us, a product of millions of years of evolution. It is easy to understand why people everywhere resist the influx of immigrants of different race, religion and culture.
I remember the offense I took, some years, ago when I was accused of "coming on" to another man's girlfriend simply because I talked to her the way I would talk to any American woman. His expectation was, apparently, that I should address her only through him. Of course, to my American sensibility, that was utter nonsense.
But the world has changed, and there's no going back. Peoples are
on the move like never before, propelled by economic, political and environmental pressures. And it's only going to get worse as climate change accelerates.
For for every example of cultural dissonance, such as the one I cited, I enjoy ten positive encounters with immigrants who are different from me in every conceivable way -- except in our common humanity.
If we humans don't hang together in the new global environment that we have created, we will most assuredly hang separately.
I remember the offense I took, some years, ago when I was accused of "coming on" to another man's girlfriend simply because I talked to her the way I would talk to any American woman. His expectation was, apparently, that I should address her only through him. Of course, to my American sensibility, that was utter nonsense.
But the world has changed, and there's no going back. Peoples are
on the move like never before, propelled by economic, political and environmental pressures. And it's only going to get worse as climate change accelerates.
For for every example of cultural dissonance, such as the one I cited, I enjoy ten positive encounters with immigrants who are different from me in every conceivable way -- except in our common humanity.
If we humans don't hang together in the new global environment that we have created, we will most assuredly hang separately.
3
Without taking into account the deeply embedded Britain First imperialist impulse in the British psyche that's working behind the Brexit threat, it would be unjustified to wholly blame the EU for pushing things to this stage, though that doesn't absolve the EU of its other failures, which are many, and largely relating to its bureaucratic functioning style as also having allowed itself to succumb to the dictates of the German political and financial elite. Last but not the least is the wide hiatus and distrust between the rich North and the struggling South. It's time the EU too undertake a serious review of its functioning and attempt a course correction, before it starts unravelling.
2
The EU IS unraveling, as well it should. The international secular progressive elites who insist upon passing off pretentious self absorption as enlightened high mindedness are on their heels throughout western civilization.
6
whats replacing it, alex jones ?
Cool, that elite you describe. Not quite like the God-fearing narrow-minded prudish holier-than-thou war mongerers that rule elsewhere.
“What has happened to you, the Europe of humanism, the champion of human rights, democracy and freedom?” Pope Francis asked.
Humanism has been long held to be the answer to human suffering. It is a great ideal, but as imperfect as telling our child that they should be friends with everyone in their school... simply because doing so is right.
But a culture is akin to a person in that it has a personality, thoughts, beliefs, and have differing levels of maturity, education, and organizational skills.
Humanists are like those parents that insist that their children must get along with all of the other kids, simply because it is right. But a culture is to a nation, as is a personality to a child, and this is not going to change, because the need for culture is as built into us as the need for a personality. If you ignore that, you'll will make the culture/person angry or confused. If you tell the culture/person they are being xenophobic/mean because they won't play nice with the peoples/kids who has nothing in common, then you will make the culture/person angry or confused.
It's actually very simple... a big part disagreements about immigration is not hate for brown skin, but that which many people know in their gut --that intellectuals are still latched on to humanism as the answer to the worlds woes, like parents who ignore the fact that their children are real people, and not dolls.
Humanism has been long held to be the answer to human suffering. It is a great ideal, but as imperfect as telling our child that they should be friends with everyone in their school... simply because doing so is right.
But a culture is akin to a person in that it has a personality, thoughts, beliefs, and have differing levels of maturity, education, and organizational skills.
Humanists are like those parents that insist that their children must get along with all of the other kids, simply because it is right. But a culture is to a nation, as is a personality to a child, and this is not going to change, because the need for culture is as built into us as the need for a personality. If you ignore that, you'll will make the culture/person angry or confused. If you tell the culture/person they are being xenophobic/mean because they won't play nice with the peoples/kids who has nothing in common, then you will make the culture/person angry or confused.
It's actually very simple... a big part disagreements about immigration is not hate for brown skin, but that which many people know in their gut --that intellectuals are still latched on to humanism as the answer to the worlds woes, like parents who ignore the fact that their children are real people, and not dolls.
8
Europe, led by Germany, has set the seeds for its own destruction. I hope that the Brits can save themselves.
14
Too easy. It's too simplistic to blame Germany for EVERYTHING currently wrong with the E.U. and for the looming BREXIT....You might want to take a closer look at Jean-Claude Juncker's sclerotic leadership style before jumping to conclusions.
1
I simply look at how Germany is to become the new Caliphate. Europe will fall shortly after.
5
Monetary unity before political unity is putting the cart before the horse. Mr Yardly has it all right.
4
Not mentioned in the article and the many excellent views expressed by the readers, is the impression that the EU has become the place to send politicians who have fallen out of favor with their constituents or their own government, e.g. The former Minister-President Günter Oettinger who in the Eulogy for a former Nazi judge and predecessor claimed that he had been no Nazi, even though it was well known that the opposite was true. After he was voted out of office, he was sent to Brussels, hopefully to be forgotten and out of the firing line.
6
the bookies in the UK are like the marker makers use to be on the new york stock exchange or the commercial interests in the futures markets, the odds are strongly saying that the UK is not leaving. these are the people who know the future not the voters who are talking heads spouting off in the present.
bottom line brexit is not going to happen. it is great for selling newspapers
bottom line brexit is not going to happen. it is great for selling newspapers
2
Dogpatch nails it with this comment:
"A loose confederation and the original common economic market worked very well but then you had the ones who dream of a 'United States of Europe' take over. That was their dream but they decided not to consult the populations."
"A loose confederation and the original common economic market worked very well but then you had the ones who dream of a 'United States of Europe' take over. That was their dream but they decided not to consult the populations."
15
“What has happened to you, the Europe of humanism, the champion of human rights, democracy and freedom?”
It seems strange, after an article consisting largely of blaming Germany for Europe’s problems, to close with such a quote. It is mostly because of Germany’s leadership that Europe has opened its doors as much as it has to those suffering the humanitarian crises in the middle east and north Africa. Germany has not only accepted vastly more refugees than other countries in Europe, they are setting them up in real homes, providing education, job training and very substantial social services. Is all that austerity coming out of Europe’s pocket? Of course not.
The real problem in Europe is not Grexit or Brexit or migrants or austerity, but the fact that there is no European Constitution and much of what could only be managed as a federal undertaking goes unmanaged or is fecklessly driven by parochial pressures, because almost everything federal, in Europe, is optional!
What Europe?
It seems strange, after an article consisting largely of blaming Germany for Europe’s problems, to close with such a quote. It is mostly because of Germany’s leadership that Europe has opened its doors as much as it has to those suffering the humanitarian crises in the middle east and north Africa. Germany has not only accepted vastly more refugees than other countries in Europe, they are setting them up in real homes, providing education, job training and very substantial social services. Is all that austerity coming out of Europe’s pocket? Of course not.
The real problem in Europe is not Grexit or Brexit or migrants or austerity, but the fact that there is no European Constitution and much of what could only be managed as a federal undertaking goes unmanaged or is fecklessly driven by parochial pressures, because almost everything federal, in Europe, is optional!
What Europe?
1
The fundamental problem we British have with the EU is it has overgrown itself into a fascist organisation that has no touch with reality. The legions of little toads it employs are hellbent on agendas that have no basis in reality. Often these little oligarchs force through legislation that supersedes very well working country laws which only further fuels local distrust.
A case in point: A mayor in Poland on BBC breakfast TV during the floods last winter in the northwest UK was dumbfounded why the UK continued to send them cheques for £20+ million at a time yet the UK had no money to help its own.
A case in point: The UK has not participated in the Schengen Agreement but no one in Europe will take France or any other country to the EU court for failing to uphold the agreement whereas the country where illegal aliens lands must take them. Instead France has steadfastly held the UK to random that we British must foot THEIR bill for THEIR inability to secure the border.
My wife is 60 and I'm 56 and we're voting Leave. We're voting Leave to give our mid-30's sons, and more importantly our grandchildren a better tomorrow. We fully understand there's going to be real pain, but we British rebuilt the bombed out remains after WW II and had a stronger country.
We will survive.
We will be better.
We are British!
A case in point: A mayor in Poland on BBC breakfast TV during the floods last winter in the northwest UK was dumbfounded why the UK continued to send them cheques for £20+ million at a time yet the UK had no money to help its own.
A case in point: The UK has not participated in the Schengen Agreement but no one in Europe will take France or any other country to the EU court for failing to uphold the agreement whereas the country where illegal aliens lands must take them. Instead France has steadfastly held the UK to random that we British must foot THEIR bill for THEIR inability to secure the border.
My wife is 60 and I'm 56 and we're voting Leave. We're voting Leave to give our mid-30's sons, and more importantly our grandchildren a better tomorrow. We fully understand there's going to be real pain, but we British rebuilt the bombed out remains after WW II and had a stronger country.
We will survive.
We will be better.
We are British!
42
Thatcherist UK was among the first wishing for an enlarged and consequently impotent EU.
Have an objective look at history.If often complicated, it is sometimes readable.
So read it.
Have an objective look at history.If often complicated, it is sometimes readable.
So read it.
This article would make it seem that Europeans think the failure of the E.U. towards immigration is that not more migrants were let in. Hello? NYT? American elites? That's not the message here.
14
Well, how does it feel Britian to be subject to rules and laws imposed by an external sovereign? To have a class of foreigners come into your country and impose their culture to the point that it changes your beliefs and customs? Well, Britian that, in fact, is YOUR history: Northern Ireland, Rhodesia, India. A pock on your house, Britian. May you reap what you sow. England get out of Ireland.
3
White men from the Netherlands bought my great-great-great-great grandfather and sold him into slavery in what is now Brazil.
Therefore I should be able to enslave a Dutch person?!
What kind of logic is this?
Therefore I should be able to enslave a Dutch person?!
What kind of logic is this?
5
Peter,
If Britain had held a referendum in Northern Island or Rhodesia or India, asking whether the people who lived there wanted Britain to control them, how do you think that vote would have come out?
Whether or not Britain should have held such referenda 50 years ago, or 150 years ago, or 250 years ago, are different questions -- valid historical questions, but different. That very referendum IS being held in Britain now, and the question is how THAT referendum ought to turn out.
If Britain had held a referendum in Northern Island or Rhodesia or India, asking whether the people who lived there wanted Britain to control them, how do you think that vote would have come out?
Whether or not Britain should have held such referenda 50 years ago, or 150 years ago, or 250 years ago, are different questions -- valid historical questions, but different. That very referendum IS being held in Britain now, and the question is how THAT referendum ought to turn out.
5
only 1 pock ?
id have wished a few pox at least
well, youre very forgiving anyway
id have wished a few pox at least
well, youre very forgiving anyway
1
This article, like most, conflates the problem of a single currency, the euro, with the other problems facing the EU. Because of the use of a single currency, there is no way for less efficient economies to adjust to balance of trade problems, within or outside the euro zone. The fallback to depreciating currencies in less productive countries has been borrowing to fund the negative balance of trade. This has benefited Germany - citizens of less productive economies can continue to buy German goods by, essentially, borrowing from Germany, keeping German employment high.
The end game for the euro has arrived. Endless borrowing to fund overconsumption by the unproductive has led to staggering national debts that cannot be repaid and an inevitable reckoning in which living standards in Greece, Italy, Spain, etc. will fall.
These problems can all be traced back to the use of a single currency by citizens of countries with widely varying productivity and governance. These are not problems associated with open borders, tariff free trade or other EU benefits.
The end game for the euro has arrived. Endless borrowing to fund overconsumption by the unproductive has led to staggering national debts that cannot be repaid and an inevitable reckoning in which living standards in Greece, Italy, Spain, etc. will fall.
These problems can all be traced back to the use of a single currency by citizens of countries with widely varying productivity and governance. These are not problems associated with open borders, tariff free trade or other EU benefits.
13
It may give members of the political establishment in Europe (and the U.S.) a smug, warm feeling to declare questions about unfettered migration and national identity to be "ugly and mean", but these are real concerns by the electorate. When you don't seriously address them, what do you get? This 'Brexit' vote, politicians like Nigel Farage, and the popularity of Donald Trump. By becoming too remote, they created their own problems.
47
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Few would argue that the EU needs massive 'fixing', but it will likely require 'breaking' before any real structural changes will happen. While being a pretty good trade cartel, as originally intended, it is a horrible failure as federal democracy. If the politics are turning ugly, it is probably a reflection of the chaotic world of the 21st century. Job one is the ability to maintain stable borders for the Union. Frontex is a disaster and not up to the demands of growing mass migration and climate change disasters. If the EU is to survive it must develop and fund a unified federal border patrol with strong links to NATO military support. If not, it should tevert back to a trade and currency cartel and allow each nation to fend for themselves. This is what the Brexit is modeling and, frankly, the likely future of European nations.
10
The European Union was an idea that would benefit all players by making travel, commerce and employment between countries much easier. The Euro was a market-driven, BIG money masters method of making it easier for them to steal at will from every country that participated and to take over countries and privatize their assets - just as they did when the Soviet Union collapsed. It was never meant to benefit anyone but them. Perhaps the answer is to strengthen the social benefits of the European Union and ditch the Euro.
19
I agree. The Euro was mainly a construct to benefit Banks and Big-Business interests.
Anyone with a cursory knowledge of finance could tell it would be no easy task to combine the free-market economies in West Europe with the then just emerging State-controlled economies in the East -- but the drive to replicate a kind of 'United States of Europe' with one common currency was strong...and flawed.
In the meantime, the present refugee situation has taken a toll on all the countries involved with this crisis, and as a result there probably won't be too much left in any budget to strengthen social benefits within the E.U. significantly.
Anyone with a cursory knowledge of finance could tell it would be no easy task to combine the free-market economies in West Europe with the then just emerging State-controlled economies in the East -- but the drive to replicate a kind of 'United States of Europe' with one common currency was strong...and flawed.
In the meantime, the present refugee situation has taken a toll on all the countries involved with this crisis, and as a result there probably won't be too much left in any budget to strengthen social benefits within the E.U. significantly.
4
I don't think that the Euro was a "plot." However, the rising tide it caused did not lift all boats and it's creation has resulted in smaller nations and those with weak economies being unable to independently renegotiate debt ir simply inflate their way out of fiscal errors.
The European Union is a collection of political correct, socially liberal countries, lead by life long politicians bent on turning once prosperous and proud individual nations into one big social welfare program. Left to their own devices, they will destroy the culture and customs of the E.U. members by openly sanctioning the continued mass illegal migration of disaffected Muslims from the war torn Middle East. As has been sadly proven, these Muslim immigrants will not assimilate into the cultures of their host countries. Instead they will cluster in insular communities, while feeding off the social welfare largess of their host and its taxpayers. Their radical clerics will continue to rail against the host governments and western culture, and they will continue to churn out radical Islamic terrorists willing to murder in the name of their faith. Save yourself, Great Britain. Get out of the European Union while the getting is good. Save your country, your culture and your native people.
48
"One big social welfare program"...
I live there...must have missed something.
I live there...must have missed something.
2
th uk is a socialist country too
You are aware that across Europe steps have been taken to arrest the flow of refugees, aren't you? -- Or have you somehow overlooked that this is a humanitarian problem as well??
Granted, there are problems with the integration of Muslims in West society, but the fault for these migrations lie largely with the politicans who continue to wage that wars that are forcing people to flee -- not the ones you point the blame at.
Granted, there are problems with the integration of Muslims in West society, but the fault for these migrations lie largely with the politicans who continue to wage that wars that are forcing people to flee -- not the ones you point the blame at.
1
Even those who prefer "Remain" seem to agree that the EU needs reform:
"I totally agree ... that Britain should remain in the EU, and that the bloc has failed to deliver for the last ten years and needs reforms."
If the British people vote "Remain," what are the odds that "reform" will occur? Low, in my view. The EU leaders will pat the British on the head, assure them that their concerns have been duly noted and that reforms will come soon -- and then they'll do nothing. Why should they, having just dodged the bullet?
If the British vote to Leave, there will be a two-year transition period. If appropriate reforms actually get offered during that time frame, there will be ample time for another vote -- for a "reformed" EU -- in both Britain and other European countries.
"I totally agree ... that Britain should remain in the EU, and that the bloc has failed to deliver for the last ten years and needs reforms."
If the British people vote "Remain," what are the odds that "reform" will occur? Low, in my view. The EU leaders will pat the British on the head, assure them that their concerns have been duly noted and that reforms will come soon -- and then they'll do nothing. Why should they, having just dodged the bullet?
If the British vote to Leave, there will be a two-year transition period. If appropriate reforms actually get offered during that time frame, there will be ample time for another vote -- for a "reformed" EU -- in both Britain and other European countries.
14
The powers that be are, once again, selling fear. Don't buy it. IMHO, the objective of the E U was intended to undermine the years of Britain's arrogant strength. No one wanted to say "Thank you for making USA your ally in WW2, and ridding the continent of Fascism." Fascism is alive and well, and growing everywhere! Struggling to get back into the driver's seat
The EU managed to accomplish a few things: Germany got control of money management, and they decide which country prospered and which failed. The Euro was a dumb idea -- Britain was wise enough to keep the pound. For that they must be subjected to regulations to limit their prosperity. Many of the claims of financial disaster are just not true. If prices go up, Britain can do what other EU nations can't -- they can print more money. reestablish their relationship with the old British Commonwealth where resources and open markets were readily available until they were abandoned for Europe. Canada, Australia, and new Zealand are still there, perhaps they will embrace the return of the mother?
The EU managed to accomplish a few things: Germany got control of money management, and they decide which country prospered and which failed. The Euro was a dumb idea -- Britain was wise enough to keep the pound. For that they must be subjected to regulations to limit their prosperity. Many of the claims of financial disaster are just not true. If prices go up, Britain can do what other EU nations can't -- they can print more money. reestablish their relationship with the old British Commonwealth where resources and open markets were readily available until they were abandoned for Europe. Canada, Australia, and new Zealand are still there, perhaps they will embrace the return of the mother?
2
Those who favor central control inevitably make this argument:
"Tribalism frequently trumps Humanism. Homo sapiens have not really advanced that far beyond our ape ancestors..."
When people want to control – for example – immigration, local voting, or minimum wages, rather than yield control over those important decisions to some group half a world away, is that really "tribalism?" What if the group half a world away made decisions you don't like? Would you still call that group "advanced humanists" and apologize for your tribalism?
"Tribalism frequently trumps Humanism. Homo sapiens have not really advanced that far beyond our ape ancestors..."
When people want to control – for example – immigration, local voting, or minimum wages, rather than yield control over those important decisions to some group half a world away, is that really "tribalism?" What if the group half a world away made decisions you don't like? Would you still call that group "advanced humanists" and apologize for your tribalism?
17
It seems people supporting Brexit in the US have forgotten that they had a similar situation back before the Civil War. The result of which was that Union through Strength . It has taken many hundred of years for Europe to be united ,perhaps the recent incorporation of ex soviet block countries ( with pressure from NATO i.e.. USA ) was a bit hasty- But you don´t want to go back to the years when ,for instance France was made from different entities and languages ( As Italy, Germany, Spain, etc ). The only way is forward, with all its difficulties. Great Britain will cease to be the United Kingdom if they leave , as Scotland and N. Ireland wants to remain.
Aren´t we witnessing what happens when unions are broken ?
See Iraq, Libya and Syria where there existed the seed of nation building, as cruel as it might have been (as in Europe ) before the US and, yes,the UK tore it apart.
Aren´t we witnessing what happens when unions are broken ?
See Iraq, Libya and Syria where there existed the seed of nation building, as cruel as it might have been (as in Europe ) before the US and, yes,the UK tore it apart.
2
Europe should not be, as I often read in these comments, an organization, but a country. Which means going not only further but choosing another way: a common currency was non sense without a common fiscal policy itself aiming at leveling economic and social disparities, something Britain has been loathing at since 1973. Think what you want about it, find all possible explanations, the fact is Britain hates the very idea of United States of Europe. Those who believe in it in the long run, with all social implications, compulsory if one want Europeans to feel Europeans, were/are very basically French and German.
3
This comment-and-reply encapsulate the issue for me -- and many others, I suspect:
COMMENT: "The fact is with EU membership Great Britain loses her freedom to say no to Brussels. ... For example the EU may demand that English prisoners who are currently serving sentences must be allowed to vote in local English elections. I would not fathom or tolerate any country trying to dictate such terms to the US..." REPLY: "Unfortunately it's not the 19th Century anymore. Britannia does not rule the waves ... The world is deeply interconnected...."
Yes, the world is deeply interconnected. But there are limits. Would Americans really be comfortable allowing Brussels to control, say, immigration? Local voting? What if Brussels to lower the minimum wage so that more employers hire workers, but Americans feel it ought to be higher? Conversely, what if Brussels decides to set the minimum wage at $20/hour, but most Americans think it should be lower?
The list could go on and on. If we would balk, why shouldn't the British?
COMMENT: "The fact is with EU membership Great Britain loses her freedom to say no to Brussels. ... For example the EU may demand that English prisoners who are currently serving sentences must be allowed to vote in local English elections. I would not fathom or tolerate any country trying to dictate such terms to the US..." REPLY: "Unfortunately it's not the 19th Century anymore. Britannia does not rule the waves ... The world is deeply interconnected...."
Yes, the world is deeply interconnected. But there are limits. Would Americans really be comfortable allowing Brussels to control, say, immigration? Local voting? What if Brussels to lower the minimum wage so that more employers hire workers, but Americans feel it ought to be higher? Conversely, what if Brussels decides to set the minimum wage at $20/hour, but most Americans think it should be lower?
The list could go on and on. If we would balk, why shouldn't the British?
15
I think the problem I'm reading here, not only from the article but most of the comments is, in essence, the coming down on one side - primarily pro-EU.
I understand. I basically support that but . . .
As I see it, what's happened over the last 8 years; the time that connects the world's economic meltdown to the wars in Syria, Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan and their catastrophic results of biblical-style human suffering is just shy of a WWII level disaster but without a WWII level of response. There are no Gen. George Marshall's or Eisenhower's or Roosevelt's or Churchill's. There are only Stalins and Hitlers on one side and the other side has only board members.
There is no emphatic leadership. I'm not talking dictatorship. Just true unequivocal leadership.
No wonder the folks of many European countries want nothing to do with the immigrants or the debt payoffs. It's unfair to ask rank and file citizens to fix the problems that the leadership (what does exist) doesn't fully understand. There does not feel like there is any possible resolve to these problems so why absorb it, I think those citizens feel.
I think those citizens of Britain and France and Germany and Austria etc. feel there will never be an end to absorbing all of the Middle East's, Africa's and the Near Far East's displaced.
To put it simply, when do you see any of these wars ending?
I don't either.
You can't ask people who have no say to fix problems Leaders don't understand.
I understand. I basically support that but . . .
As I see it, what's happened over the last 8 years; the time that connects the world's economic meltdown to the wars in Syria, Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan and their catastrophic results of biblical-style human suffering is just shy of a WWII level disaster but without a WWII level of response. There are no Gen. George Marshall's or Eisenhower's or Roosevelt's or Churchill's. There are only Stalins and Hitlers on one side and the other side has only board members.
There is no emphatic leadership. I'm not talking dictatorship. Just true unequivocal leadership.
No wonder the folks of many European countries want nothing to do with the immigrants or the debt payoffs. It's unfair to ask rank and file citizens to fix the problems that the leadership (what does exist) doesn't fully understand. There does not feel like there is any possible resolve to these problems so why absorb it, I think those citizens feel.
I think those citizens of Britain and France and Germany and Austria etc. feel there will never be an end to absorbing all of the Middle East's, Africa's and the Near Far East's displaced.
To put it simply, when do you see any of these wars ending?
I don't either.
You can't ask people who have no say to fix problems Leaders don't understand.
34
I remember the pride I felt when my country, Spain, was accepted into the EU.
The last few years have been shameful, and have shown the EU to be little more than a business deal.
Now I'm curious about the possible exit. We keep being told it would be bad or worse. The same was said to justify the bank bailouts in the US and EU.
Were those not also politics of fear? Have they not been conducted to preserve the interests of a particular social class?
The last few years have been shameful, and have shown the EU to be little more than a business deal.
Now I'm curious about the possible exit. We keep being told it would be bad or worse. The same was said to justify the bank bailouts in the US and EU.
Were those not also politics of fear? Have they not been conducted to preserve the interests of a particular social class?
20
No.
The bank bailouts were conducted to preserve the jobs and retirement funds of hundreds of millions of Americans. That those same hundreds of millions of Americans do not understand because it is easy to find villains on Wall Street is irrelevant.
And FYI, those were loans, almost all of which have been paid back with interest.
The bank bailouts were conducted to preserve the jobs and retirement funds of hundreds of millions of Americans. That those same hundreds of millions of Americans do not understand because it is easy to find villains on Wall Street is irrelevant.
And FYI, those were loans, almost all of which have been paid back with interest.
In Spain, the government has stated that they expect to recover very little of the loan to Bankia.
I understand that the bailouts may have been necessary, but I didn't see much in the way of rational pro-vs-con analysis. Just predictions of doom.
If "hundreds of millions of americans" don't "get it", maybe "it" was never explained very well, and "it" certainly is not irrelevant.
I understand that the bailouts may have been necessary, but I didn't see much in the way of rational pro-vs-con analysis. Just predictions of doom.
If "hundreds of millions of americans" don't "get it", maybe "it" was never explained very well, and "it" certainly is not irrelevant.
1
Mr. Yardley's article is one everyone who wants to learn the basics about the looming Brexit vote should read.
He unfortunately leaves out a major aspect of Europe's current crisis, however: NEOLIBERALISM. The austerity policies pursued both by the Tory party in the UK (which does have its own, independent central bank, and thus its sovereignty over its monetary policy) and the EU (primarily because of Germany's domination of the European Central Bank) have led to the economic stagnation plaguing Europe as a whole and the increased suffering of the Southern European nations' economies.
The blind faith in neoliberal policies, particularly deregulation, fiscal austerity and the belief that the "market" will solve all problems, led to the economic disasters of 2007-9, and while the US and most of the globe continues to pursue them, their effects have devastated Europe. Yet again and again, the New York Times will not name this toxin that keeps causing problems all over the globe. Why?
The UK's austerity policies nearly sank Britain's economy *again*, but the Bank of England instead took an expansionary approach, just like the Federal Reserve, blunting the Conservatives' failed policies. But the lingering after-effects include Brexit.
What will it take to get journalists to truthfully and candidly diagnose the economic-political crises neoliberalism creates?
He unfortunately leaves out a major aspect of Europe's current crisis, however: NEOLIBERALISM. The austerity policies pursued both by the Tory party in the UK (which does have its own, independent central bank, and thus its sovereignty over its monetary policy) and the EU (primarily because of Germany's domination of the European Central Bank) have led to the economic stagnation plaguing Europe as a whole and the increased suffering of the Southern European nations' economies.
The blind faith in neoliberal policies, particularly deregulation, fiscal austerity and the belief that the "market" will solve all problems, led to the economic disasters of 2007-9, and while the US and most of the globe continues to pursue them, their effects have devastated Europe. Yet again and again, the New York Times will not name this toxin that keeps causing problems all over the globe. Why?
The UK's austerity policies nearly sank Britain's economy *again*, but the Bank of England instead took an expansionary approach, just like the Federal Reserve, blunting the Conservatives' failed policies. But the lingering after-effects include Brexit.
What will it take to get journalists to truthfully and candidly diagnose the economic-political crises neoliberalism creates?
52
Very well said. I would only add a degree of moderation. I believe that, given the status of the Euro, it would be very difficult to have a different outcome. As to Germany's dominant position in banking and it's political weight, I think Angela Merkel has done as good a job as anyone could have given the flawed underpinnings of a common currency between:1. fully mature economies; 2. chronically poor nations like Greece and Portugal; and 3. fledgling post Soviet economies.
UK gov spending has increased YoY since the GFC. Is that really austerity? I guess it's debatable. i personally wouldn't call it austerity. Specific Eurozone economies, however, have implemented austerity.
Not all regulation is equal either. The EU has become more regulated since the GFC, but a big problem for example is how lots of regulation can actually lead to benefiting big corps / multinationals by stifling competition at the expense of small and medium sized enterprises. It all needs to be carefully formulated, to maximise growth while limiting risk. So just saying regulation = good, no regulation = bad, is too simplistic (and can be quite dangerous thinking in my opinion).
I totally agree with Simon Tilford, deputy director of the Center for European Reform in London, that Britain should remain in the EU, and that the bloc has failed to deliver for the last ten years and needs reforms. There is - per se - nothing wrong with the idea of a closer union. Instead, politicians at national and supranational level are to blame for the failure of handling various crises. The bloc is long on bureaucracy and short on efficacy, given the nice fat paycheque its staff and lawmakers receive. Billions had been wasted on fraudulent, illegal or ineligible spending projects. No wonder people became angry.
The problem with today's EU is that there aren't many cutting edge thinkers around. The very few leaders with political acumen and statesmanlike qualities stand there all alone. Mediocre rhetoric and toxic populism gain more traction than sober reasoning. After decades of prosperity people need to be rattled to the bone, just like their grandparents after World War Two. This post-war era ushered in a long period of boom and prosperity. Perhaps the EU needs to be broken up. An end of the EU is not the end of Europe, it can learn from its past mistakes and opt for a fresh start.
The problem with today's EU is that there aren't many cutting edge thinkers around. The very few leaders with political acumen and statesmanlike qualities stand there all alone. Mediocre rhetoric and toxic populism gain more traction than sober reasoning. After decades of prosperity people need to be rattled to the bone, just like their grandparents after World War Two. This post-war era ushered in a long period of boom and prosperity. Perhaps the EU needs to be broken up. An end of the EU is not the end of Europe, it can learn from its past mistakes and opt for a fresh start.
17
Your words "people need to be rattled to the bone" ring true in terms of Donald Trump's popularity--this is exactly why so many people, contrary to the media, of all educational levels and political bent, support him. This comment won't see the light of day because the NYT does not believe in free speech, but it feels good to write it in any case.
8
I am not sure the author gets the DNA of unity.
What is uniting DNA of specimen USA: common language, government, currency. Common revulsion toward the history that made it possible (slavery) and common pride toward the history that made it successful (freedom, rule of law, and a hundred other things). Note the absence of roots in colonialism; the revulsion against authoritarianism. The American willingness to die for democracy in distant lands stands alone. This is the DNA. No such analog in Europe.
This is the DNA that values "producing the best" (not making do), radical innovation (not tinkering), competition (not protectionism), examination of warts (not glossing over). This strain is absent in Europe.
Every single EU member has an uncomfortable relationship with immigrants (Sweden, UK relative exceptions). Message to immigrants: "Come, work, go back to the ghetto, and shut up. Or else the extreme right wing will bring back the box cars." Yeah, that works for unity.
EU has meant a bigger fortress, a moat with a longer perimeter; not totally open markets. Eastern Europe with its fascination for totalitarianism is welcome. PIIGs with cringe-worthy fiscal discipline are welcome. Turkey with an educated labor force is not. Way to go. No NAFTA analog.
So if UK wants to leave because the union is unsustainable (for more reasons than I can count), the sages speak of coming economic Armageddon.
Ger real. UK will be fine. EU will not.
Kalidan
What is uniting DNA of specimen USA: common language, government, currency. Common revulsion toward the history that made it possible (slavery) and common pride toward the history that made it successful (freedom, rule of law, and a hundred other things). Note the absence of roots in colonialism; the revulsion against authoritarianism. The American willingness to die for democracy in distant lands stands alone. This is the DNA. No such analog in Europe.
This is the DNA that values "producing the best" (not making do), radical innovation (not tinkering), competition (not protectionism), examination of warts (not glossing over). This strain is absent in Europe.
Every single EU member has an uncomfortable relationship with immigrants (Sweden, UK relative exceptions). Message to immigrants: "Come, work, go back to the ghetto, and shut up. Or else the extreme right wing will bring back the box cars." Yeah, that works for unity.
EU has meant a bigger fortress, a moat with a longer perimeter; not totally open markets. Eastern Europe with its fascination for totalitarianism is welcome. PIIGs with cringe-worthy fiscal discipline are welcome. Turkey with an educated labor force is not. Way to go. No NAFTA analog.
So if UK wants to leave because the union is unsustainable (for more reasons than I can count), the sages speak of coming economic Armageddon.
Ger real. UK will be fine. EU will not.
Kalidan
5
You just can't force countries and peoples who have histories that go back a thousand years in some case to suddenly be 'united'. A loose confederation and the original common economic market worked very well but then you had the ones who dream of a 'United States of Europe' take over. That was their dream but they decided not to consult the populations.
18
Replace Eurozone with a broad, liberal trade agreement, revert back to each country having its on currency and use technology to easily convert one currency to another.
Some countries should consider merging with others.
Some countries should consider merging with others.
6
Global climate change has the potential to cause or is already causing mass migration of peoples. Because of its geography, Europe cannot easily defend itself from these migrations. The UK can better defend itself as an island.
5
One must start to wonder: WHAT will it take for Brussels to wake up?? -- If a terrorist attack outside their doorstep, a rise in right-wing activity across Europe, an unfettered flow of migrants, and the recent high-profile political assassination in England doesn't do it -- will the BREXIT????
And this is only the beginning. Will Scotland and Ireland be next to follow? France is torn internally. Greece is barely holding on. Poland is reverting back to its old Communist days. And the once-strong German economy, now strained by a slowing export market, and too many refugees is grinding down, while threatening to bring the entire economic house down with it.
Herr Juncker and the rest of those "well-heeled bureaucrats of the European Union" had finally best take note, and wake-up.
The real nightmare is about to begin.
And this is only the beginning. Will Scotland and Ireland be next to follow? France is torn internally. Greece is barely holding on. Poland is reverting back to its old Communist days. And the once-strong German economy, now strained by a slowing export market, and too many refugees is grinding down, while threatening to bring the entire economic house down with it.
Herr Juncker and the rest of those "well-heeled bureaucrats of the European Union" had finally best take note, and wake-up.
The real nightmare is about to begin.
17
Obama's nasty clucking and threats against the UK certainly does not help the non-Brexit vote. Another major political blunder by the great divider.
14
Lay the blame on the Greek issue, and the unregulated immigration issue. There is much responsibility associated with freedom. Most people want the second, but not the first.
9
Just as Americans have learned with the ascent of Trump and his supporters in the political arena, Tribalism frequently trumps Humanism. Homo sapiens have not really advanced that far beyond our ape ancestors on the evolutionary tree.
1
It is commonly held that Prime Minister Cameron failed, in his renegotiation of British terms of membership of the EU, to obtain agreements that would satisfy the Eurosceptic opinion in the UK. But, to an even greater extent, the arrogant, corporatist elites of Brussels and Strasbourg (and, dare one say, Bonn) failed to reimagine British restiveness in terms of a new compact for all of the countries in the Union. For the fact is that, although the UK is often portrayed as the "whiny" neighbour to the rest of the EU, whose members are "of course" marching in lockstep with nary a raised eyebrow between them, the same legitimate concerns that are articulated publicly in Britain are alive and well and living amongst the general populations in the other countries of the Union. These forces were inevitably bound to disrupt the model based on "ever closer union" at some point. On the other hand, as a British expat, I believe that leaving the EU is not a good solution - the EU will make it its business to punish the UK for years, and the UK itself is likely to break up. I believe that the UK should remain in the EU, but be a lot more active in forming coalitions to support a diversity of political relationships within the Union, and to return many powers to national governments - in this way, to stand for "little guys" everywhere and oppose the dictatorial tendencies of the Continent. This was ever Britain's role.
4
It is too much to expect that nations so different and with deep seated grudges would now live in harmony. Some did not even get their house in order and now must get used to new relationships. EU a good idea but perhaps premature. But much like a child overcomes the frustration and set back of first (early steps) there is hope that EU can make it.
"Politics in Europe, as in the United States, have gotten ugly and mean", followed by the Pavlovian reference to "right wing" politics as an example and carefully omitting any mention of the noxious, toxic moralizing, the endless ridiculing, hectoring, and authoritarian threats emanating from the Left.
The Newspaper of Record - for half the story, anyway.
The Newspaper of Record - for half the story, anyway.
16
This reminds me that we used to see Nazis parade down the streets of Skokie, Illinois. We didn't like it, but there's no US law that prohibits giving offense.
1
This is a very smart piece, the best I've seen in the NYT on brexit. Bravo Mr Yardley.
1
This could have been avoided had Germany not had another madman (this time a woman) at the helm. Why would any country want to be subjugated by her? She has thrown Europe in to chaos. Her finance minister believes that 80 million Germans will commit incest unless refugees are let in. This is Germany in the 1930's again. I don't blame Great Britain for wanting out.
33
The funniest things pop up in these contextual advertising banners.
For this article an advertisement for: Industrial Fasteners. Screws.
"Long lasting quality screws" How appropriate.
Even the most long lasting quality screws won't hold the eu together.
For this article an advertisement for: Industrial Fasteners. Screws.
"Long lasting quality screws" How appropriate.
Even the most long lasting quality screws won't hold the eu together.
5
The ruling British elite has invoked a dangerous political instrument a.i., a popular referendum to decide the country's future at the EU. The stakes are high for future generations.
If Great Britain leaves the EU, the negative fallout will be felt in the economy. The British economy is highly integrated and EU-dependent for trade, growth and prosperity.
In the European integration process, Germany is the manufacturing powerhouse while Great Britain specializes on financial services.
IF GB abandons the EU, no danger for the global economy of being inundated by price competitive " Made in Britain" manufactured goods.
The British were the creators of modern economic integration. The question to be asked by the electorate a week before the referendum is:
Can Great Britain be more prosperous outside the EU? Can the British people afford to behave like the Americans as far as integration? only benefits and few responsabilities?
If Great Britain leaves the EU, the negative fallout will be felt in the economy. The British economy is highly integrated and EU-dependent for trade, growth and prosperity.
In the European integration process, Germany is the manufacturing powerhouse while Great Britain specializes on financial services.
IF GB abandons the EU, no danger for the global economy of being inundated by price competitive " Made in Britain" manufactured goods.
The British were the creators of modern economic integration. The question to be asked by the electorate a week before the referendum is:
Can Great Britain be more prosperous outside the EU? Can the British people afford to behave like the Americans as far as integration? only benefits and few responsabilities?
5
Well now, let's not let the "little people" decide what's best for them. You sound like Leona!
5
One thing the article missed was the impact - both real and perceived - of free movement of people on the poorest in the UK. Working class voters are by far the most likely to want to pull out of the EU. Open borders migration is a no brainer for large corporations and the wealthy as it pushes down wages and creates an endless supply of labor. But if you are competing for jobs at the bottom it's a very tough world. Add to that rent and house price rises and the pressures on pubic services that official net migration of 330,000 pa causes and it's obvious who has been left behind by Project Europe.
53
These kinds of culture bending decisions (EU, TPP, Nafta) seem to always benefit the wealthy and corporations, and cause untold harm to everybody else. What am I missing? Just tell me what benefits come to middle (REAL middle, not UPPER middle, who should be regarded as well to do, anyway) and lower income people.
27
England was at the height of their economic power when they were free and independent of the continent. As an American I only wonder why an Englishman would not want to be free. Freedom has its prices but that price is well worth it. Really what we are seeing is that the idea of the "state" is being attacked by those who have no qualms about turning over their laws to "others" because their loyalty is not to their own country but to an ideology, specifically one centered around cosmopolitanism, hyphenated identities and anti-Western sentiment. The fact is with EU membership Great Britain loses her freedom to say no to Brussels. This may not seem like a big deal but it is, as can be seen when Brussels dictates the law. For example the EU may demand that English prisoners who are currently serving sentences must be allowed to vote in local English elections. I would not fathom or tolerate any country trying to dictate such terms to the US so I can only feel for those loyal British who are fighting for their liberty. Britain should follow their American cousin's lead and trod boldly down the path of liberty.
69
Unfortunately it's not the 19th Century anymore. Britannia does not rule the waves and airplanes, nuclear weapons and technology in general means that nobody can pretend that across the Channel is a world away. The world is deeply interconnected. Two world wars that killed millions and bankrupted all of Europe (including the 'winner' Great Britain) are a lesson to all of the dangers of NOT being closely involved in European decision-making. The EU needs political reform and the English are needed to help make it happen. 'Liberty' can be an empty word used as a tool by uninformed and angry fools the world over.
3
Is the United States really in any different position than England or other members of the European Union? Through trade agreements such as NAFTA and many others the choices the U.S. makes are dictated by foreign governments. This is not necessarily bad or evil it is simply the reality of the modern marketplace. We are living in McLuhan's global village. Whether the constraints are pronounced as membership in the European Union or more subtle every nation is affected. Isolationism is no longer an option other than for those who wish to be left behind.America has traditionally been a leader not a follower.
2
Loss of control of one's own destiny is to me the one issue of consequence, far more important than the economy, and I feel sure that is what the colonists in New England had foremost in their minds.
5
The U.S. was declared independent 240 years ago, the E.U. is 60 years old.
Since time flies on steroids these days, our politicians can’t wait 100 years to see the results of incremental and slow change. Therefore they rush things with results to match.
Under these circumstances it is easy for populists to take advantage of those results. Sad but true.
Since time flies on steroids these days, our politicians can’t wait 100 years to see the results of incremental and slow change. Therefore they rush things with results to match.
Under these circumstances it is easy for populists to take advantage of those results. Sad but true.
2
I think Germany should remember how much we did for them to bring their economy back and we did not charge interest nor even get paid back all we were owed. The EU cannot succeed if Germany uses such austerity economic policies that the other countries are suffering and their people do not have jobs or money for food.
6
When America has been in need, Britain has given of its treasury and the lives of its people. Sign the White House Petition to support Britain. Brexit or not, loyal friends aren't sent to the back of the queue: https://wh.gov/iHOf5
9
Pope Francis rhetorically asks: “What has happened to you, the Europe of humanism, the champion of human rights, democracy and freedom?”
I ask: How can we do to better protect and further those core western world values and principles?
First, the bottom line reality: Unfortunately, in today's world there are billions more people on this planet that abhor western values and principles than embrace them. The western world owes it to future generations to enact immigration law that protects its open societies from literally being overrun by millions of people who utterly detest its core values and principles.
How do I know? I handled immigration cases before the federal courts in the United States as an Assistant U.S. Attorney.
What needs to be done? Change immigration law to impose a "merit based test" that allows an applicant to enter western nations only if (i) they will contribute to the nation's economy, (ii) they will not take a job away from a citizen, and (iii) demonstrate their personal practices and lifestyle embrace core western values and principles--an allegiance to individual civil liberties including free speech and gender equality. That change will better protect the west's open societies and ensure that nation's economy serves the interests of all citizens - not just the interests of employers looking to maximize profits through a flood of cheap labor.
Once done, we can help guide others into the Age of Enlightenment.
I ask: How can we do to better protect and further those core western world values and principles?
First, the bottom line reality: Unfortunately, in today's world there are billions more people on this planet that abhor western values and principles than embrace them. The western world owes it to future generations to enact immigration law that protects its open societies from literally being overrun by millions of people who utterly detest its core values and principles.
How do I know? I handled immigration cases before the federal courts in the United States as an Assistant U.S. Attorney.
What needs to be done? Change immigration law to impose a "merit based test" that allows an applicant to enter western nations only if (i) they will contribute to the nation's economy, (ii) they will not take a job away from a citizen, and (iii) demonstrate their personal practices and lifestyle embrace core western values and principles--an allegiance to individual civil liberties including free speech and gender equality. That change will better protect the west's open societies and ensure that nation's economy serves the interests of all citizens - not just the interests of employers looking to maximize profits through a flood of cheap labor.
Once done, we can help guide others into the Age of Enlightenment.
95
And how in hell to you administer your test?
1
How would you treat political asylum seekers? Would you have turned millions of Vietnamese refugees away because they neither knew the language nor did many have skills the country needed? How would you deal with the Cubans?
Germany does not even have an immigration policy like the US. You won't get to stay there, because you are only looking to better yourself. The millions that have arrived last year and this are refugees asking for asylum. The UN is already complaining that the EU is not treating them according to international convention.
Germany does not even have an immigration policy like the US. You won't get to stay there, because you are only looking to better yourself. The millions that have arrived last year and this are refugees asking for asylum. The UN is already complaining that the EU is not treating them according to international convention.
Hi mtrav16: Effective border control--not a Trump wall--rather employ boots on the ground and a technological wall that efficiently locate, arrest, process (photo, figure print and DNA test--the name on documents can not be relied upon, many migrants change names overnight) and deportation. Laws are ineffective as a deterrent if you do not aggressively enforce them. The test: review application and interview outside the border...verify information if possible...if the migrant satisfies the three prong test then allow entry and then arrange for unscheduled follow ups over a five year period to ensure migrant was not fraudulent on application and during interview, and if fraudulent immediate deportation.
Grexit over Brexit is the most blatant failure of the EU. Instead of forcing Greece out of the eurozone, German taxpayers can again and again bail out a state and debt they did not cause. And migration is a notion so poorly and inaccurately handled by the press including the NYT that one can only wonder if journalists are truly literate. The intentional blurring of facts under smear words like anti-immigration is what characterizes journalism in this decade. Wait until the tax payers of Pennsylvania are asked to bail out Puerto Rico, or Californians are classified as migrants in New York. Someone teach these journalists please what precision is.
9
It's not just the EU that is making people question the value of being part of a political entity that does not necessarily share all of its values.
I'm sure that if the Constitution allowed it, probably 10-15 different states would have held votes to secede from the US over the past eight years...
I'm sure that if the Constitution allowed it, probably 10-15 different states would have held votes to secede from the US over the past eight years...
5
It would be a setback to the global economy, stability, and peace should the European Union break up. The independent nation-state, which began with the pact of Westphalia in 1648, became anachronistic with the two world wars of the 20th century and with new problems that cross borders: climate change, global trade, terrorism, the drug trade.
European integration allows Europe to trade on an equal basis with the United States, China, Russia, and other countries and blocs with large populations and land masses.
What the Union requires is more financial and political integration--to stabilize the Euro, to manage the refugee crisis more equitably and efficiently, and to coordinate intelligence and actions in countering terrorism.
European integration allows Europe to trade on an equal basis with the United States, China, Russia, and other countries and blocs with large populations and land masses.
What the Union requires is more financial and political integration--to stabilize the Euro, to manage the refugee crisis more equitably and efficiently, and to coordinate intelligence and actions in countering terrorism.
12
Yes because forcing together people with different cultures, temperaments, languages and ways has worked so well in the middle east.
Europe needs to take advantage of the disaster that has been the past 10 years of the Euro to undue the mistake they made in adopting it. The Euro zone needs LESS financial and political integration not more. They have never been and are never going to be the United States of Europe and the sooner the Euro-dreamers wake up to that fact the better.
Europe needs to take advantage of the disaster that has been the past 10 years of the Euro to undue the mistake they made in adopting it. The Euro zone needs LESS financial and political integration not more. They have never been and are never going to be the United States of Europe and the sooner the Euro-dreamers wake up to that fact the better.
35
This political and financial integration depends on fiscal integration, which in its turn depends on policies aiming at reducing social inequalities...so as most European citizens feel they are so: Europeans.
This path towards the United States of Europe is both common sense and/but more than ever out of reach...all the more so if Britain chooses to remain in the Union, since it has been since 1973 the very country constantly opposed to any further social and political integration.
If Europe has a significant future, it will be built around a solid core believing in it, imaginative, communicative and courageous, around France and Germany.
This path towards the United States of Europe is both common sense and/but more than ever out of reach...all the more so if Britain chooses to remain in the Union, since it has been since 1973 the very country constantly opposed to any further social and political integration.
If Europe has a significant future, it will be built around a solid core believing in it, imaginative, communicative and courageous, around France and Germany.
1
With which countries would the United States partner itself on an equal basis and surrender its authority over its own borders? Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela for example?
8
I witnessed the rise of the National Front in the early 90's, just after the post WWII economic boom started to fissile out.
People seeing their secure lives taking a financial hit, seeing their dreams becoming ever harder to attain, see the politicians pointing at the immigrant.
Then prime minster, Chirac, sympathizing with "the simple Frenchman", used xenophobia for electoral gain and political cover for the growing wealth disparity.
Point being, if the economic social ladder still allowed that so called "american dream" to function, nativists on both sides of the Atlantic would still be marginal minorities.
Even in the best of times, I'm guessing that 3% to 7% of most Western societies are permanently xenophobic.
People seeing their secure lives taking a financial hit, seeing their dreams becoming ever harder to attain, see the politicians pointing at the immigrant.
Then prime minster, Chirac, sympathizing with "the simple Frenchman", used xenophobia for electoral gain and political cover for the growing wealth disparity.
Point being, if the economic social ladder still allowed that so called "american dream" to function, nativists on both sides of the Atlantic would still be marginal minorities.
Even in the best of times, I'm guessing that 3% to 7% of most Western societies are permanently xenophobic.
3
And not one word that it was the US/UK bankers that spawned the Euro crisis, partly triggered by the 07 mortgage debacle made in USA that triggered a world wide credit crunch. It was also the US/UK lead push into Irak that really started the massive destabilization of the middle east that gave birth to ISIS, and also the support of so called rebel 'freedom fighters' in Syria. These US/UK actions are the main cause of the current refugee crisis in Europe!
But not one word here and certainly no sense of guilt and responsabilty for the mess that was created, only gloating over the European problems.
Yes the UK should live Europe as it has been on the wrong side of history along with the the US for too long and only caused problems for the people on the continent. I understand a war wit Russia on European soil is supposed to be next. Get out of town you bums, we're not that stupid!
But not one word here and certainly no sense of guilt and responsabilty for the mess that was created, only gloating over the European problems.
Yes the UK should live Europe as it has been on the wrong side of history along with the the US for too long and only caused problems for the people on the continent. I understand a war wit Russia on European soil is supposed to be next. Get out of town you bums, we're not that stupid!
7
Europe approaches the set the set of an Ayn Rand novel--get out while you can GB, and when it can contemplate the world outside its borders its mantra has become something like, my riches are your riches an your problems are my problems. The March of Folly continues.
3
The EU experiment has allowed the Germans to accomplish with a pen what they couldn't accomplish with guns. The Brits should seize the opportunity to run.
What I really wonder is how much longer until Texit gain traction with the right wing nut jobs running my state. I understand it comes up at the state convention each year.
What I really wonder is how much longer until Texit gain traction with the right wing nut jobs running my state. I understand it comes up at the state convention each year.
19
Every country has mentally ill people with strange ideas. In Britain they usually find it difficult to get hold of firearms. It is distasteful for the author to suggest that those voting for Brexit were in some way responsible for Jo Cox's murder.
What the author fails to understand is that the EU's leadership wants political union. A clear majority of people in the UK don't want to part of an huge organization of 500-600 million people, where all new laws are initiated by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. They want Parliament and British courts to have supremacy over European institutions. David Cameron has avoided discussing the sovereignty issue. He has consistently lied about immigration and has instead focused on spreading fear. The EU will also be better off without Britain holding it back.
What the author fails to understand is that the EU's leadership wants political union. A clear majority of people in the UK don't want to part of an huge organization of 500-600 million people, where all new laws are initiated by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. They want Parliament and British courts to have supremacy over European institutions. David Cameron has avoided discussing the sovereignty issue. He has consistently lied about immigration and has instead focused on spreading fear. The EU will also be better off without Britain holding it back.
20
Best thing that could happen is that Britain leaves the EU and the EU dissolves and all the member countries regain their sovereignty and their own currency. The EU represented the triumph of authoritarian and totalitarian dreams going back to Napoleon and Hitler (and to a certain extent the Soviet Union). What's happening in Greece, which is basically now ruled by Germany (!), is a replay of what happened during WWII when the Germans occupied Greece - minus the mass killings.
Anyone who traveled to traveled to Europe years before the EU came into being can remember how much better it was when each country had its own identity and its own culture.
Anyone who traveled to traveled to Europe years before the EU came into being can remember how much better it was when each country had its own identity and its own culture.
34
Maybe it was for a US tourist.
As far as people are concerned, you can be sure the Spaniards or the Portuguese wound not agree with you.
As far as people are concerned, you can be sure the Spaniards or the Portuguese wound not agree with you.
1
A "United States of Europe," which is ostensibly the aim of the EU, might have succeeded 2,000 years ago when the western world pretty much all spoke Latin; and if one of the Roman colonies got out of line they were quickly put down the old fashioned way.
Today? Impossible. Too much diversity, too much cultural and linguistic differentiation, too much hostility over the centuries, too much pride, too much wealth inequality, and not a few more "too much's."
The key difference between what Europe is trying to accomplish and what we managed to do in the USA in the 18th century is that we started with a common English heritage. That is the singularly most important predictor of success or failure.
The Brits simply don't want unelected, non-Brits telling them how to run their country. The pope is right in his ideals but wrong in his understanding of reality.
Today? Impossible. Too much diversity, too much cultural and linguistic differentiation, too much hostility over the centuries, too much pride, too much wealth inequality, and not a few more "too much's."
The key difference between what Europe is trying to accomplish and what we managed to do in the USA in the 18th century is that we started with a common English heritage. That is the singularly most important predictor of success or failure.
The Brits simply don't want unelected, non-Brits telling them how to run their country. The pope is right in his ideals but wrong in his understanding of reality.
18
Americans generally are nonplussed at the important difference between being 'British' and being English. My father, who grew up a Church of Ireland Ulsterman, could not claim to be English so instead like so many Protestant Belfasters he fervently insisted, as he had been brought up to believe, that he and the rest of his family, including me, were 'British'.
It took me many decades before I saw through the crafty Anglo-imperialist contrivance of being 'British'.
I am not a 'Briton', in 2016 a strange word in itself, implying lashings of woad. If I still have an ethnic identity then I should describe myself first as a Cornishman, second as an Englishman, but not 'British' and certainly not a 'Briton' or even 'Brit'.
'The Soldier' with its bitter-sweet lament for England and being English, note not for Britain nor being British, makes all this clear:
'If I should die, think only this of me:
That there's some corner of a foreign field
That is for ever England. There shall be
In that rich earth a richer dust concealed;
A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware,
Gave, once, her flowers to love, her ways to roam,
A body of England's, breathing English air,
Washed by the rivers, blest by suns of home.
And think, this heart, all evil shed away,
A pulse in the eternal mind, no less
Gives somewhere back the thoughts by England given;
Her sights and sounds; dreams happy as her day;
And laughter, learnt of friends; and gentleness,
In hearts at peace, under an English heaven.'
It took me many decades before I saw through the crafty Anglo-imperialist contrivance of being 'British'.
I am not a 'Briton', in 2016 a strange word in itself, implying lashings of woad. If I still have an ethnic identity then I should describe myself first as a Cornishman, second as an Englishman, but not 'British' and certainly not a 'Briton' or even 'Brit'.
'The Soldier' with its bitter-sweet lament for England and being English, note not for Britain nor being British, makes all this clear:
'If I should die, think only this of me:
That there's some corner of a foreign field
That is for ever England. There shall be
In that rich earth a richer dust concealed;
A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware,
Gave, once, her flowers to love, her ways to roam,
A body of England's, breathing English air,
Washed by the rivers, blest by suns of home.
And think, this heart, all evil shed away,
A pulse in the eternal mind, no less
Gives somewhere back the thoughts by England given;
Her sights and sounds; dreams happy as her day;
And laughter, learnt of friends; and gentleness,
In hearts at peace, under an English heaven.'
6
Thanks for that and credit to Rupert Brooke (1887-1915), one of the cadre of the fallen soldier poets of World War One, possibly the first who died.
2
The EU, as we know it, is over.
It started its serious decline with the mistreatment of Greece, and that was to stay in the Euro currency, but the strength and control of Germany was made clear. The next, more serious action, was Germany's call for any and all illegal immigrants to make their way to Germany, across other sovereign and EU member lands. That call ignored any and all local and EU laws and was Germany's fault, only. And then stake in the heart for the EU - the mandate to redistribute the illegal immigrants to other countries.
Other nations see the writing on the wall. An EU that is controlled by Germany, supported by bureaucrats in Brussels, and completely unresponsive to any democratically elected government. And a Germany out of control.
It's going to devolve to what it should have been. A trade agreement.
It started its serious decline with the mistreatment of Greece, and that was to stay in the Euro currency, but the strength and control of Germany was made clear. The next, more serious action, was Germany's call for any and all illegal immigrants to make their way to Germany, across other sovereign and EU member lands. That call ignored any and all local and EU laws and was Germany's fault, only. And then stake in the heart for the EU - the mandate to redistribute the illegal immigrants to other countries.
Other nations see the writing on the wall. An EU that is controlled by Germany, supported by bureaucrats in Brussels, and completely unresponsive to any democratically elected government. And a Germany out of control.
It's going to devolve to what it should have been. A trade agreement.
79
At what point will those supporting the European Union take into account that their 'immigrant problem' is in no small part an effect of their support of wars abroad? If there are less cities in the East being destroyed by military actions , there will be less people fleeing them. There are much greater costs of these conflicts than materiel and uniformed deaths on the battlefield.
3
I really hope Britain will get out of EU.They have a lot of muslims and they make a lot of problems.By electing a muslim mayor the clear danger is visible;now the guy starts to ban the swimming suits advertisements...next will be the burka.
England MUST get out - I never understood how they can get along with germany, an impossible combination.
Plus merkel is totally crazy
England MUST get out - I never understood how they can get along with germany, an impossible combination.
Plus merkel is totally crazy
31
to Jan: largest part of UK Muslim population is a consequence of the colonial period; Pakistani being the largest section - and mostly well integrated.
all to often we see being stupid is not limited to non-whites.
all to often we see being stupid is not limited to non-whites.
5
Mayor Khan of London has been charged with apostasy by radical Imams in Britain for his support of gay marriage and his encouragement of Muslims to participate in democracy. The punishment for apostasy under Sharia is death, and he knows the risks from extremists. His efforts are not only to serve the citizens of London, but to lead the Muslim community to better integration with, and respect for, common British values.
15
And do you really think that Brexit will solve the problem you are referring to? That immigration happened before the EU even existed as one reader has pointed out. And the current "Muslims" are mostly coming from OUTSIDE the EU into the UK>
"Badly wounded and its reputation badly damaged."
"Idealism has given way to disillusionment."
"The economic crisis in 2007-2008 plunged (it) into a cycle of crises from which it still has not recovered."
Leaders "often perceived as out of touch, while... institutions are not fully equipped to address problems like unemployment and economic stagnation"
Sounds vaguely familiar, doesn't it?
And yet the tottering, sinking European Union still manages to provide health care for all its citizens and a robust safety net from birth to death.
The international bankers almost destroyed the EU in 2007-2008 and have severely wounded Greece, but its plucky countries continue to do everything they can to insure their people are housed and fed and not tossed onto the street when they are old or ill.
How do they manage that? Enquiring minds over here would like to know.
"Idealism has given way to disillusionment."
"The economic crisis in 2007-2008 plunged (it) into a cycle of crises from which it still has not recovered."
Leaders "often perceived as out of touch, while... institutions are not fully equipped to address problems like unemployment and economic stagnation"
Sounds vaguely familiar, doesn't it?
And yet the tottering, sinking European Union still manages to provide health care for all its citizens and a robust safety net from birth to death.
The international bankers almost destroyed the EU in 2007-2008 and have severely wounded Greece, but its plucky countries continue to do everything they can to insure their people are housed and fed and not tossed onto the street when they are old or ill.
How do they manage that? Enquiring minds over here would like to know.
61
One word: TAXES
4
Nope, not taxes in general. The USA has plenty of taxes, but refuses to implement the most important. One word: VAT.
4
They do it the same way we do it, by taking on loads of debt in ratios that are unsustainable. When will so many over here take off their rose-colored glasses and stop fantasizing Europe. This is especially an issue with our left who seem to worship at the alter of Nordic Social Democracy. There is just one catch, that our own multiculturalist miss, that is these countries, like Denmark and yes, England, can't keep up with the cost of this great "safety net" that many Americans yearn for. In Denmark they are taking the jewelry of refugees to help pay for the cost that these migrants have caused on their system. The nations of the EU are playing hot-potato with the migrants, seeking to toss them off on each other because the whole system, the EU, can't foot the bill. Britain would be wise to regain control of itself, less they be forced to take in what Greece/German/France/Portugal don't want.
4
People have woken to realize that international banks and hedge funds are calling the shots and holding nations and their people as subordinates.
No nation should be put in the humiliating position of being owned by bankers.
Nobody should be born in to financial servitude.
And we wonder what drives an individual crazy.
No nation should be put in the humiliating position of being owned by bankers.
Nobody should be born in to financial servitude.
And we wonder what drives an individual crazy.
102
One reason to introduce a common currency was to void the need for hedging and taking bets on exchange rate fluctuations.
Across Europe, the rise of the right wing is 90% due to immigration.
For example, the AfD in Germany had become a fringe party in danger of falling apart from internal divisions, until Merkel shoved the mass immigration policy down people's throats. Now AfD is a significant secondary player in German politics.
Europe now faces a decision - control the border around the EU or control the individual borders within the EU. The future of European politics rests on this decision.
For example, the AfD in Germany had become a fringe party in danger of falling apart from internal divisions, until Merkel shoved the mass immigration policy down people's throats. Now AfD is a significant secondary player in German politics.
Europe now faces a decision - control the border around the EU or control the individual borders within the EU. The future of European politics rests on this decision.
116
These are just symptoms, not the underlying problem, which is that there is no effective federal government in Europe, and no Constitution.
What precisely would you suggest the border nations ought to do?
Just back from London yesterday: nearly everyone we spoke with ( mostly cab drivers and people in the service industry) are in favor of BREXIT. The same racist based anti-immigrant phobia we thrive on is alive and well in the U.K. , even among some recently assimilated ethnic minorities. Then again they tell us that their media reports that 'Trump' is all but a shoo in as our next president. Go figure!
5
Robert, It's nothing to do with racism, it's the fact that we are a small island and are being swamped with people and are struggling to cope.
16
As a traveler through Europe I love the single currency and the ease in crossing borders. However I also love the uniqueness of each European country and would hate to see that lost and Europe become one homogenous country. I hope they can work out their differences and remain a union while maintaining each country's unique character and culture.
47
Isn't what you wish for a kind of tautology: remain a union of unique characters?
3
You mean like India? India is a country of 20 sub-nations. It has survived for 70 years as a single nation with a federal structure borrowed from the US and U.K. Hopefully this grand human experiment survives and can set an example for other continents like Europe and Africa
1
That´s exactly the problem. The main official article of faith of the Union is "the ever closer union". What else does this mean than eliminating the differences of national identities at least in the long term. If you would put it to the vote the article would be refused by the electorate of any member state, not only the British or English one. What it takes is more soberness. Just taking the practical advantages of cooperation. Not making the Union a melting pot with broken english as first language (sorry for my bad english).
3
The author decries the austerity imposed upon indebted EU nations such as Greece. But he fails to mention the repeated refusal of Greece to institute reforms that wwere the conditions of their bailout. Those reforms would allow that nation's economy to grow and provide employment. Greece refused to follow the examples of other small European countries such as Estonia. So they repeated suffer the consequences.
9
The British realize the mistake they made and how they were deceived by their political leadership. They are experiencing Obama's fantasy world with a big centralized socialist government and open borders.
Hopefully both the British and Americans will realize their mistakes and vote for new leadership that supports freedom and democracy.
Hopefully both the British and Americans will realize their mistakes and vote for new leadership that supports freedom and democracy.
41
nice thought
1
" a big centralised socialist government "
I am afraid your knowledge on the workings of the EU is quite limited...
I am afraid your knowledge on the workings of the EU is quite limited...
8
The EU can best be termed as a Quilt, a patchwork of big & small, rich and poor, former communists and Western democracies, where a few powerful countries dominated it's early formation.
The Quilt has since undergone "wear & tear" and is now in tatters.
Britain was always skeptical of this Quilt, and the presence of Spain, Portugal & Greece was the sore-sight of this design.
If Britain leaves, and I hope they do, then scrapping the free travel, and kicking out Romania, Poland, Lithuania,Estonia, Czech,etc should be the focus of the Brussels Parliament.
The Quilt has since undergone "wear & tear" and is now in tatters.
Britain was always skeptical of this Quilt, and the presence of Spain, Portugal & Greece was the sore-sight of this design.
If Britain leaves, and I hope they do, then scrapping the free travel, and kicking out Romania, Poland, Lithuania,Estonia, Czech,etc should be the focus of the Brussels Parliament.
10
The rethink will never happen if BREXIT fails. The Burssels bureaucrats will read it as a vindication of their ambitions and congratulate themselves as they finish another gourmet lunch and continue their interminable discussions of "coordination."
79
The establishment (not just in Brussels) has abandoned the creed of reform. The elites will ignore dissent unless the establishment can survive. To arrogate over dissent and people's voices for reform ... is what was once considered banished from post-WWI western Europe and to be found only in authoritarian and incompetent governments outside the west.
2
It's hard to miss the veiled criticism of those who don't wish to have their countries flooded with immigrants, especially by immigrants whose culture and religion are in direct conflict with their own.
Will it ever be possible to express disagreement with such immigration policies without facing accusations such as "xenophobia"? Not among the cognoscenti, it appears. They will not be robbed of their intellectual gratification.
Will it ever be possible to express disagreement with such immigration policies without facing accusations such as "xenophobia"? Not among the cognoscenti, it appears. They will not be robbed of their intellectual gratification.
162
I think the concern is not the "flood" of refugees for whom most people have sympathy, but the concern that their intention is not to join the country that admits them, but to take control of it.
16
Benefits versus drawbacks. These are hard to calculate in the midst of a crisis and it appears that today's EU leadership isn't fully up to the task. Even if a British vote for exit fails to destroy the EU totally, the grand vision of unity would crumble permanently to something far more pedestrian and less inspiring.
Amidst today's stumbles, some not of the EU's own making, it is easy to ignore the Union's enormous achievements. As an educator and four-time visiting teacher in Europe, I came to admire and envy its benefits of scolarly integration. Through cross-border higher education cooperatives such as the Erasmus and Socrates initaitives, research and teaching has been incalculably enhanced throughout Europe. All Europeans benefit as a result.
I hope that Europe and the UK can sustain the vision of integration. On balance it has delivered much more good than bad. The consequences of retrenchment rarely end well.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
Amidst today's stumbles, some not of the EU's own making, it is easy to ignore the Union's enormous achievements. As an educator and four-time visiting teacher in Europe, I came to admire and envy its benefits of scolarly integration. Through cross-border higher education cooperatives such as the Erasmus and Socrates initaitives, research and teaching has been incalculably enhanced throughout Europe. All Europeans benefit as a result.
I hope that Europe and the UK can sustain the vision of integration. On balance it has delivered much more good than bad. The consequences of retrenchment rarely end well.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
7
Another of the NYT doom laden but rather incoherent rambles around the EU and the Euro where it attempts to tie together totally disparate issues like the Greek debt crisis (in which the British have no interest whatever) and the British vote to leave or remain in the EU all under the general heading...abandon hope, the end is nigh. The Greeks certainly don't want to leave the EU, they don't even want to leave the Euro. The reality is these are completely discrete events. The fact is the establishment is correct. Brexit is peculiarly British affair. They spent over a decade and three attempts trying to get in and they have been complaining much of the time ever since although they have signed four major treaties that have essentially defined the current structure of the EU (three of them by conservative prime ministers incidentally). In recent times it's become so bad that they've effectively marginalized themselves and reduced their influence to more or less zero. If there is a vote to leave the economic implications are potentially staggering but they are potentially staggering for the British not the EU which will remain a market of 440 million people and carry on much as before. As some wag in London has pointed out, if the British vote to leave they'll spend the next five years negotiating an exit and the next five years negotiating to get back in.
24
In fact, the Greek debt crisis was extensively covered in the UK and is quite frequently referred to.
Brexit is 'peculiarly British' because the British have kept the pound - so exit isn't as difficult as it will be for Euro countries. There's also a feeling that the UK is being marginalised for saying that it doesn't want a more united EU than we've got right now, even thought the problems of the 'full steam ahead' ever-greater-union approach are becoming more and more apparent.
But Brexit is part of a wider European dissatisfaction with the EU. It's simply that the UK referendum gave that dissatisfaction a goal and a voice.
Brexit is 'peculiarly British' because the British have kept the pound - so exit isn't as difficult as it will be for Euro countries. There's also a feeling that the UK is being marginalised for saying that it doesn't want a more united EU than we've got right now, even thought the problems of the 'full steam ahead' ever-greater-union approach are becoming more and more apparent.
But Brexit is part of a wider European dissatisfaction with the EU. It's simply that the UK referendum gave that dissatisfaction a goal and a voice.
59
John, the point which yourself and the author miss is that the Euro can only survive with on common Fiscal Policy, ie the United States of Europe. The USA was created pretty much in a vacuum and has succeeded and prospered. Europe is still a collection of small cultures, languages, local laws which often transcend the national and international, and of course a very bloody history. Putting this together is taking more than a quick common currency and maybe is never going to happen. in out long history Britain has often been alone and has flourished and I believe we will do so again. Trust the Brits - afterall, who else can you trust.
26
@ Pip
It may have been covered in the British press but that doesn't mean it resonated with the British public. Now even the British media have totally lost interest in the Greeks as indeed have the media here. The British have marginalized themselves by their endless whining. They have no leverage because they make ridiculous demands which the rest of the club are NEVER going to accede to. You have no idea what you are talking about. This extends far beyond Euro membership. I was reading an lengthy article by a leading British QC who was pointing out the British have no idea of the extent to which British criminal and civil law dealing with contracts, data protection, employment and environmental protections, etc. etc. is entwined with that of the EU. It will take years to disentangle it if it ever will be because of the need to comply in order to trade in Europe or even travel there. Then there's the farming industry which receives 75 million pounds a day in subsidies under the CAP and which largely protects the traditional small and mid sized farmer (why do you think the NFU wants to stay in?). You are under the delusion that the rest of the EU is going to slash their wrists if the British quit. They're not. In fact French and German financiers are rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of getting their hands on much of the 80% of Euro denominated transactions currently taking place in the city.
It may have been covered in the British press but that doesn't mean it resonated with the British public. Now even the British media have totally lost interest in the Greeks as indeed have the media here. The British have marginalized themselves by their endless whining. They have no leverage because they make ridiculous demands which the rest of the club are NEVER going to accede to. You have no idea what you are talking about. This extends far beyond Euro membership. I was reading an lengthy article by a leading British QC who was pointing out the British have no idea of the extent to which British criminal and civil law dealing with contracts, data protection, employment and environmental protections, etc. etc. is entwined with that of the EU. It will take years to disentangle it if it ever will be because of the need to comply in order to trade in Europe or even travel there. Then there's the farming industry which receives 75 million pounds a day in subsidies under the CAP and which largely protects the traditional small and mid sized farmer (why do you think the NFU wants to stay in?). You are under the delusion that the rest of the EU is going to slash their wrists if the British quit. They're not. In fact French and German financiers are rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of getting their hands on much of the 80% of Euro denominated transactions currently taking place in the city.
6
When the USA was founded there were 13 independent states. Citizens of those states were proud of what they and their ancestors had created. Today in New York, almost nobody considers themselves New Yorkers. They are Puerto Ricans, Russians, Jamaicans, Mexicans, Pakistanis, Uzbek, etc. Maybe one in twenty New Yorkers have grandparents who were born in New York.
Anyone who calls for just a little stability is described as in your article ,"nasty tenor has infused the British campaign with hostility and xenophobia toward immigrants."
New York will never be New York again. If the British,French, Germans, Greeks, Spanish and other European countries can save their cultures, good luck to them. It will be worth the little economic gain that the wealthy 20% lose.
Anyone who calls for just a little stability is described as in your article ,"nasty tenor has infused the British campaign with hostility and xenophobia toward immigrants."
New York will never be New York again. If the British,French, Germans, Greeks, Spanish and other European countries can save their cultures, good luck to them. It will be worth the little economic gain that the wealthy 20% lose.
74
New York will never be New York again? 1 in 20 have a single grandparent born in NY?
ahh, do I recognize the misty sentimentalism of a Lenape?
ahh, do I recognize the misty sentimentalism of a Lenape?
1
1 in 20? I guess I am of the 1 in that.
Uh, wrong. Also, take a look back. Do you think the Italians, Irish, Scottish, Germans, Jews, etc etc considered themselves New Yorkers? Or even Americans... No they did not, their children eventually did but they all kept a lot of their heritage and traditions along side American traditions.
1
The austerity measures of the whole world have been proven a failure every time it has been tried. Until the nations of the world stop playing with failure in hopes it may work this time is just plain ignoring huistory.
18
It is from that position that they have adopted the neoliberal position and reject the idea of people working together for a common goal.
It is also from that position that they are incapable of resisting power plays, neither from business and US lobbyists or from the most powerful state - Germany. It is also that lack of standing for something that caused the EU to give in to Erdogan's blackmail.
Europe needs to go back to being an alliance of nation states.