"There are no trains that take you directly from Manhattan to Long Island"
Really?
Maybe you live in Outer Bolgovia but please check out a place called Penn Station, go downstairs and follow the signs for the LIRR
Really?
Maybe you live in Outer Bolgovia but please check out a place called Penn Station, go downstairs and follow the signs for the LIRR
1
This is BRILLIANT and WONDERFUL.
1
It would be nice to see ferry service from the Southern end of Brooklyn. Coneyisland, Greavesend, Sheephead bay, There are stations under renovation till 2017. A big inconvience for people trying to get to work. It seems if it's not in sight of Manhattan no one cares when it come to brooklyn.
Putting down the calculator, and aside the politics, I applaud the plan for innovation and foresight. The world and NYC, and commuters, are changing, and our transportation means should change and evolve with them.
A couple of suggestions: (i) incorporate Citibike stations at each port, so users inclined to ride have a ready means, and (ii) coordinate with MTA on next generation transit cards so users can access the subway system within a set period from the time they exit a ferry terminal without being charged again, and vice-versa in the other direction. The technology exists, it just requires a deal between City and MTA on revenue slitting for double users.
Good luck!
A couple of suggestions: (i) incorporate Citibike stations at each port, so users inclined to ride have a ready means, and (ii) coordinate with MTA on next generation transit cards so users can access the subway system within a set period from the time they exit a ferry terminal without being charged again, and vice-versa in the other direction. The technology exists, it just requires a deal between City and MTA on revenue slitting for double users.
Good luck!
put express bus lanes on the upper west side and everywhere else for use during rush hours it will save hundreds of millions of dollars if not billions of dollars.
instead we get trolleys and ferries courtesy of our progressive mayor.
"a billion dollar here a billion dollar there before you know we are talking about real money."
what a joke!
instead we get trolleys and ferries courtesy of our progressive mayor.
"a billion dollar here a billion dollar there before you know we are talking about real money."
what a joke!
4
Hong Kong's Star Ferry is a good example of "mass" transit, ferry style. Commuters also have the choice of the subway between HK and the mainland/other islands.
So if the ferry winds up costing the city ten dollars a passenger, subway and bus riders will be subsidizing those who take the ferry. What is fair about that?
5
Unless you live directly on the waterfront (and need to go directly to another waterfront), why would anyone take a subway, get off, get on a ferry, then get back on the subway on the other side.
I've lived in NYC more than a decade and have never once started and stopped a trip on directly opposite waterfronts.
Just another boondoggle.
Also NYT, please investigate how much this will be subsidized. A ride will cost the passenger $2.75, but what does the ride cost the city all-in to operate?
I've lived in NYC more than a decade and have never once started and stopped a trip on directly opposite waterfronts.
Just another boondoggle.
Also NYT, please investigate how much this will be subsidized. A ride will cost the passenger $2.75, but what does the ride cost the city all-in to operate?
8
So let me get this right - the plan will cost $325 million. It will carry (at most I'm sure) 4.5 million passengers a year, paying $2.75 year. So costs $325 million to generate $12.4 million in revenue. Even by MTA standards that is ridiculously dumb.
5
As a daily commuter on the SF Ferry service mentioned in the article, I can attest to value of the service. No other mode of transit can compare with fresh air when I want it, bathrooms and a staffed bar for coffee in the morning and beer in the evening (as needed). Plus, I can bring my bike on the boat which makes commuting to work a few miles away from the ferry terminal an invigorating way to start my day. Watch out New York, your city is about to noticeably change for the better.
What about upper Manhattan? There's an easily convertible dock in Inwood already. I would really love to see this go farther than 90th street! There are over 100 more blocks north in Manhattan that won't be able to use this service...just like Citibikes.
1
These ferries will hold 149 passengers, and according to the article, 18 will be built in the next few years.
Each boat will require, I'm guessing, a pilot and a crew of at least two. And sport two 400 HP diesel engines (which I'm sure will be as clean-burning as possible, but will still produce a significant amount of pollution). The current Hoboken and East River ferries stations are served, at most, 3 times an hour during rush hour. So that's .... maybe 450 people taking a ferry an hour, with a bit of overcrowding.
ONE modern subway car is rated to carry about 240 passengers. A crowded L train probably carries over 2600 passengers, every 3 to 5 minutes. That's 52,000 passengers/hour. They produce little polution, and require a crew of only one or two.
Based on those back-of-envelope estimates, a NYC ferry service will be a picturesque weekend adventure, but unless I'm missing something, they won't make a dent in subway crowding, will take capital funding away from needed infrastructure improvements, and will add significantly to NYC's carbon emissions.
If only Phil Hartman was here to help sell 'em!
Each boat will require, I'm guessing, a pilot and a crew of at least two. And sport two 400 HP diesel engines (which I'm sure will be as clean-burning as possible, but will still produce a significant amount of pollution). The current Hoboken and East River ferries stations are served, at most, 3 times an hour during rush hour. So that's .... maybe 450 people taking a ferry an hour, with a bit of overcrowding.
ONE modern subway car is rated to carry about 240 passengers. A crowded L train probably carries over 2600 passengers, every 3 to 5 minutes. That's 52,000 passengers/hour. They produce little polution, and require a crew of only one or two.
Based on those back-of-envelope estimates, a NYC ferry service will be a picturesque weekend adventure, but unless I'm missing something, they won't make a dent in subway crowding, will take capital funding away from needed infrastructure improvements, and will add significantly to NYC's carbon emissions.
If only Phil Hartman was here to help sell 'em!
13
Thank you Mayor deBlasio! All New Yorkers in all boroughs will benefit from this citywide Ferry system. We in Rockaway are ecstatic about the boom to our economy this will provide, as well as easy access to Manhattan, finally! The Ferry cannot come soon enough, please, please keep on schedule or surprise us with an earlier than predicted opening.
3
So even after Sandy we want to encourage people to move to the Rockaways. We want to expand housing on a sand bar only a few feet above sea level?
4
absolutely! And may taxpayers pay any reconstruction costs needed as a result of storms!
2
"The company, however, has limited experience with helping commuters get to and from work every day, though city officials said that did not weigh heavily against it." Let's spend $350 Million with a partner who has little or no experience doing what we are paying them to do. That's a good start. I voted for DeBlaz, but I am constantly shocked and disappointed by his half-baked "ideas".
7
Agree. He is none too bright and not very successful at any infrastructure project. The numbers on this do not work at all. I hope the City Council and the Stare are not duped.
2
deBlasio works for the developers land holdings - it makes sense for them
what would make more sense is taking the existing subway lines and extend the development in those areas
the overheads for all those ferries 24/7 is going to be a very big number
what would make more sense is taking the existing subway lines and extend the development in those areas
the overheads for all those ferries 24/7 is going to be a very big number
4
Growing up, we used the 69th Street ferry in Bay Ridge routinely. It was great. I guess I never considered the impact it had on workers as I was a child. I only remember the trips to Staten Island, and the cars below, etc. The ferry did not go to Manhattan as far as I remember. Therefore, it would be a great idea for those who live by the waterways. It could relieve subway traffic from those parts of Brooklyn certainly. Keeping the fare at $2.75 is right and reasonable. However, if a ferry would go to Staten Island again, it would save us the ridiculous price that the city promised to be rescinded after the Verrazano Bridge was paid for back in 1965 (is it paid for yet?). The toll is now at least $16.00! I have E-Z pass and cringe at the thought of even looking at the statement. Most of us could understand tolls and their usage, but for Pete's sake, these tolls are getting out of hand. What about what is right and reasonable in this arena?
1
And now we wait as if watching an HBO drama...will an ambitious jealous nasty governor who should be supporting a fellow Democrat for the welfare of New York City intervene to destroy another plan of our mayor? Gee, why on earth do I think such dirty thoughts? I should perhaps be ashamed of myself. But the thought persists. -Rudy
2
GREAT IDEA! I hope the mayor does not give in to those who say this should be a privatized ferry system. It needs to be like our subways, for all, affordable and easy to get to. DO IT!!
6
Ferries are nice. But ferries or not, the New York region still needs more subways lines. Right now. When will the full 2nd Avenue subway be completed? 2050? 2075? How about a subway to Union City? to Staten Island? to Newark? Seems all the money is going to Iraq and Afghanistan...
4
The PATH already goes to Newark and Hoboken. New Jersey Transit also goes to Newark and other places throughout NJ.
Why isn't Staten Island's south shore getting a new ferry terminal? There used to be a ferry between Tottenville and Perth Amboy, NJ.
1
Only if NJ pays for it or also start paying NYC taxes.
1
As someone who lives at the tip of Corlears Hook, a good 20-minute walk from the closest subway and dependent on buses like the M21 that seem to run on a schedule made up at the whim of the driver (anyone who depends on that particular bus line knows exactly what I mean), I am beyond excited at the prospect of a ferry serving my neighborhood. Can't wait until 2018!
1
The Times needs to report on what the environmental impact will be on the bodies of water (and air) that will facilitate this type of transportation.
2
I think ferries are great forms of transportation, that have been sorely neglected in the US, largely due to development patterns along the federal highway system, reducing obvious demand for water transit. Using ferries to reduce use of underground transit is brilliant; and despite what the commenter below believes, ferries are easier to police. I would, however, phrase the pricing target as merely a target, and design a project financing that enables the City to come close to that target. Don't make it a deal breaker.
6
"It appears that DeBlasio has caught the edifice complex."
"it doesn't take much guts to seek glory with the money of others. "
isn't that what socialism/progressivism is all about?
"it doesn't take much guts to seek glory with the money of others. "
isn't that what socialism/progressivism is all about?
2
Let's give the terrorists a waterway access point for the price of s subway ride; the waterways of this country are trafficated enough with pirates, drug dealers and smugglers. Perhaps DeBlasio needs to concentrate on adequately securing NYCDOE schools by requiring identification badges for all faculty, staff and students, as well as armed security at entrances (e.g. African-American and Hispanic officers laying it on the line as first responders to a shooter with only a pen and a call to 911 to defend themselves and the school population). Suberversive educational strategies must be addressed in addition to identifying troublesd youth who show signs of radicalization. Disenfranchised youth is myth - most are making very unfortunate radical.choices based on a sense of both control and fear, and a conscious choice has consequences. Belligerence is epidemic in the schoolhouses of America disguised as First Amendment freedom of speech or expression. Surveillance cameras will not stop the projectiles discharged by an assault weapon - too many school shootings nationally to ignore the need for such preventive measures in light of terrorism.
This is a lot of money that is short on details about how any of it interconnects with people from farther east in Brooklyn than the waterfront. A lovely idea for science fiction city of the future where this might be a little add on. To those of us who think pragmatically more bus routes to and from fewer boat docks might be cheaper and more sustainable.
6
NYC transit system carries 6M passengers a day. This ferry system expects to transport 4.5M passengers a year. Can someone explain how this is helpful or worth $400M?
8
This article would benefit from some quantitative data. For instance, how many people per hour can be transported a given distance? My sense is that this idea is extremely inefficient and will not bel cost effective over time.
4
This looks like a developers dream rather than a rational transit plan. Note that all of the proposed Manhattan terminals would serve upscale neighborhoods on the East Side and those sited for Brooklyn and Queens are in rapidly gentrifying areas.
One has to wonder whether this is really a plan to reduce subway congestion or a means of speeding up development of high priced housing along the borough side of the East River? It will certainly do that regardless of its intention.
As the MTA debates introducing a system whereby riders can donate reduced fare cards for the poor spending $325 million so that folks making six figures don'e have to ride a crowded subway seems like a misplaced priority at best. At worst, this is another giveaway to wealthy developers that they don't need, but one that they will gladly show their gratitude for at election time. I think our so called 'progressive' mayor is pulling a fast one.
One has to wonder whether this is really a plan to reduce subway congestion or a means of speeding up development of high priced housing along the borough side of the East River? It will certainly do that regardless of its intention.
As the MTA debates introducing a system whereby riders can donate reduced fare cards for the poor spending $325 million so that folks making six figures don'e have to ride a crowded subway seems like a misplaced priority at best. At worst, this is another giveaway to wealthy developers that they don't need, but one that they will gladly show their gratitude for at election time. I think our so called 'progressive' mayor is pulling a fast one.
13
"Our aim is to make this thing as big as possible, said Alicia Glen... , No guts, no glory.”
That's a foolish aim. Your goal should be per passenger cost and energy efficiency. If you can achieve economies of scale from bigness, by all means go for it.
Also, it doesn't take much guts to seek glory with the money of others.
That's a foolish aim. Your goal should be per passenger cost and energy efficiency. If you can achieve economies of scale from bigness, by all means go for it.
Also, it doesn't take much guts to seek glory with the money of others.
9
Isn't it great that the corporate cost-efficiency, bean-counting mentality has become the measure of all public statements by government? Regardless of whether such statements are off-hand, or broad brush efforts to inspire and awaken the public imagination?
From now on let's never, ever deviate from having the corporatists set the limits of our collective and individual imagination and sanguinity. Let us never express our own enthusiasm about anything without first having that expression vetted by a bean counter. All hail the corporate G-d because he always does what's right for us.
From now on let's never, ever deviate from having the corporatists set the limits of our collective and individual imagination and sanguinity. Let us never express our own enthusiasm about anything without first having that expression vetted by a bean counter. All hail the corporate G-d because he always does what's right for us.
Sigh ..... Isn't it sad that pie in the sky dreamers think glitzy, cutesy idea backed up by shallow slogans like "No guts, no glory." always have backers willing to ignore fiscal realities. This is not bean counting. It's common sense. Sensible households face fiscal reality everyday. So should governments.
2
This idea should be part of the plan to get people in an out of Brooklyn during the L Train repair work. But the plan shown is designed to move up and down the East River shorelines more than to cross the river. A crossing between Wall Street and 34th Street would seem to be an obvious need.
4
Yeah - I don't understand the East River route at all. why aren't boats going directly across the river to Houston, 14th, 23rd, 34th, etc.? very few people commute from Queens to DUMBO. the route is ridiculous. i took it once with tourist relatives when we wanted a leisurely boat ride. It's slow. Pretty as all get out, but slow.
1
Exactly!
1
It appears that DeBlasio has caught he edifice complex. Instead of making the current subways as efficient as possible by modernizing the signal system, he wants to spend billions of dollars on projects that will benefit very few people.
9
Did Hornblower contribute to DB's slush fund under some LLC name? Interesting that Ms Glenn's comment of "No guts no glory," is what David Walentas of Two Sleze had embroidered on each of his shirt's cuffs.
Funds to repair NYC's crumbling infrastructure is a far better investment than this vanity project that, no doubt, DB hopes will rehabilitate his sullied reputation as a corrupt politician just in time for the 2017 elections. After the revelation of DB's "pay to play" funding scheme, regardless of whether he is indicted, how can a New Yorker believe anything that comes out of this man's mouth?
Does this qualify as one of DB's Zero Vision projects?
And if DB current management style and disregard for enforcing the law (think 421-a and rent stabilization requirements) then think of all the satirical cartoons that depict DB as the hapless captain of his ferry boondoggle much like the Fritizcarraldo. Ahoy there!!!
Funds to repair NYC's crumbling infrastructure is a far better investment than this vanity project that, no doubt, DB hopes will rehabilitate his sullied reputation as a corrupt politician just in time for the 2017 elections. After the revelation of DB's "pay to play" funding scheme, regardless of whether he is indicted, how can a New Yorker believe anything that comes out of this man's mouth?
Does this qualify as one of DB's Zero Vision projects?
And if DB current management style and disregard for enforcing the law (think 421-a and rent stabilization requirements) then think of all the satirical cartoons that depict DB as the hapless captain of his ferry boondoggle much like the Fritizcarraldo. Ahoy there!!!
3
Any information on how such a system would impact the waterways--from an environmental viewpoint? I'd be interested.
4
Love the idea of ferries -- but has there been analysis of how people will travel to & from the ferries? Ferries alone won't help if they just result in even more congestion in the subway stations near wharfs.
Other good uses for $325 M: Figure out how to run our subway syustem better. London's subway system manages to run trains every minute or two pretty consistently; same with other systems around the world. Why can't we figure out how to do that? Every time I travel I'm reminded anew of how badly our system compares to those in many other cities. Why are there constant delays on NYC trains--whether due to sick passengers or signal problems or congestion? other cities appear to have fixed many of these issues.
This paper has reported on the sick passenger problem. There are fixes to that -- including having medical personnel at key stations so we don't end up with massive train pileups every time one of tens of thousands of commuters feels unwell during rush hour. How many thousands of hours would be saved if we spent money on that instead?
That said -- I live near the water in Brooklyn & work on the east side of Midtown. Cheaper, more frequent ferries will benefit me for sure, as I can walk to & from ferries. Just not sure how true that will be of other folks.
Other good uses for $325 M: Figure out how to run our subway syustem better. London's subway system manages to run trains every minute or two pretty consistently; same with other systems around the world. Why can't we figure out how to do that? Every time I travel I'm reminded anew of how badly our system compares to those in many other cities. Why are there constant delays on NYC trains--whether due to sick passengers or signal problems or congestion? other cities appear to have fixed many of these issues.
This paper has reported on the sick passenger problem. There are fixes to that -- including having medical personnel at key stations so we don't end up with massive train pileups every time one of tens of thousands of commuters feels unwell during rush hour. How many thousands of hours would be saved if we spent money on that instead?
That said -- I live near the water in Brooklyn & work on the east side of Midtown. Cheaper, more frequent ferries will benefit me for sure, as I can walk to & from ferries. Just not sure how true that will be of other folks.
8
Ferries are a great idea. But overpaying for boats to accelerate the design and construction schedule so that the mayor has something to add to a sorry reelection platform is not. Taxpayers will be paying that bill as well as the bill for some of the highest per-passenger subsidies in the country on certain routes.
Some of the routes make sense, others do not. And other cities have passengers pay for a larger share of the fares. But this is the world of DeBlas, in which uplifting rhetoric is more important than transit system realities and costs.
Some of the routes make sense, others do not. And other cities have passengers pay for a larger share of the fares. But this is the world of DeBlas, in which uplifting rhetoric is more important than transit system realities and costs.
9
So they mayor has picked the fare already and is committed to subsidize any shortfalls of revenue while the City is already burdened with budget challenges. That makes him grossly irresponsible. It is the classic deficit spending that "kicks the can...." and leaves the matter for someone in the future to solve or dismantle.
4
Great, more plans to help the upper classes, at least in terms of Brooklyn and Queens. Only people with money are able to move into the waterfront areas now. Great that they will have an alternative to taking a 2-stop subway ride into Manhattan. Phew! But maybe it's time to think about those of us who live farther out in the boroughs? More subways? More express buses? More railroad access? Just a thought.
14
One stop in the bronx?! Why is the bronx not part of this expensive plan??
2
Like virtually all of this mayor's grand proposals this one is short, very short, on the details.
1. Is the subsidized fare good for a free transfer to MTA buses or subways?
2. What is the estimated cost of the subsidy the city will have to make each year?
3. How, exactly, are ferry riders to connect to other mass transit? NY Waterway operates a fleet of buses for this purpose, since obviously we do not have any mass transit available where we might add ferry terminals.
4. The city would seem to believe that 4.5 million people work or soon will work along the waterway within an easy walking distance from the new ferry terminals. In a city of nine million people? Does this mean they anticipate downtown and midtown Manhattan to soon resemble ghost towns?
I could go on, but you get the idea: this is another half-baked plan by our half-baked mayor de blah blah blah, as the city hall press core has long aptly referred to him.
Come on, Bill. Do you really think we are this stupid? Or is it that you just estimate yourself to be that much smarter than the rest of us, an estimate that has about as much substance behind it as this so-called plan.
1. Is the subsidized fare good for a free transfer to MTA buses or subways?
2. What is the estimated cost of the subsidy the city will have to make each year?
3. How, exactly, are ferry riders to connect to other mass transit? NY Waterway operates a fleet of buses for this purpose, since obviously we do not have any mass transit available where we might add ferry terminals.
4. The city would seem to believe that 4.5 million people work or soon will work along the waterway within an easy walking distance from the new ferry terminals. In a city of nine million people? Does this mean they anticipate downtown and midtown Manhattan to soon resemble ghost towns?
I could go on, but you get the idea: this is another half-baked plan by our half-baked mayor de blah blah blah, as the city hall press core has long aptly referred to him.
Come on, Bill. Do you really think we are this stupid? Or is it that you just estimate yourself to be that much smarter than the rest of us, an estimate that has about as much substance behind it as this so-called plan.
7
I don't like the ferry plan, but your numbers are not correct. 4.5 million rides in a YEAR, not daily
1
RE #3 perhaps horse carriages could be used to get people to and from the piers.
4
The building rush along our waterfronts has created greater need for public transport, for sure. Rich, poor, shrinking middle class - I don't think income or class really matter when it comes to commuting. It's one of the great urban equalizers.
That said, this proposal may well have a darker side. This administration is hell-bent to expand NYC in exchange for "affordable" off-site housing. It is business as usual for de Blasio's teams to aggressively move forward, often without broad community review and oversight. By the time this is acknowledged, contracts are signed and shovels are poised. Zoning intrusions are predictive. Lawsuits follow, dragging on and on. Everything becomes more expensive during the wait.
Please note Ms. Glen's 'no guts, no glory' comment. They're anointed and on a mission to build, build, build. I'd hold off until there is a new and, hopefully, more capable administration.
That said, this proposal may well have a darker side. This administration is hell-bent to expand NYC in exchange for "affordable" off-site housing. It is business as usual for de Blasio's teams to aggressively move forward, often without broad community review and oversight. By the time this is acknowledged, contracts are signed and shovels are poised. Zoning intrusions are predictive. Lawsuits follow, dragging on and on. Everything becomes more expensive during the wait.
Please note Ms. Glen's 'no guts, no glory' comment. They're anointed and on a mission to build, build, build. I'd hold off until there is a new and, hopefully, more capable administration.
2
When coupled with a bicycle, citibike or one's own, the ferry plan makes perfect sense.
1
Rockaway is a public transportation nightmare and a ferry really isn't going to solve our problems. It would take me at least a half an hour to get to the ferry either by cab or public transportation. The promised shuttle buses to whisk Rockaway commuters to the ferry aren't going to materialize right away. Here's the most important problem of all that Rockaway's ferry advocates are deaf dumb and blind to -- once the ferry arrives in Manhattan at Pier 11 there is no direct link from the ferry to public transportation. The Rockaway ferry is destined to be just another well meaning gesture that's already doomed to fail.
11
yeah the ferry terminals have no transport connections. it's ridiculous and fantastical.
2
With such a small amount of people being able to use this ferry service, I would much rather see that money given to the MTA to update its infrastructure so that we could have many more trains run much more frequently.
5
This mayor and his accomplices on the the City Council seem to think that tax money is there own to spend while they continue to vilify the corporate world and homeowners that provide most of those taxes. Another plan that makes no common sense - in the winter the waters are too choppy for boats to travel - what happens then? Service will shut down and people will be forced back to trains and buses. It's just another political move, like his 'Evita' stratgey to flood the poor neighborhoods with more 'bread' to keep them happy on the taxpayer's dime. My property taxes have gone up 54% since this mayor took office and I expect the bills to keep rising. Progressive know nothing except how to spend and bend to corruption and will eventually be run out of office as their predecessors were leaving the city in worse shape.
3
Ferry rides sound delightful as summer approaches and our weather reaches 90F. But for half the year, the conditions on the Hudson are bitter and freezing -- ridership will be affected accordingly, but I doubt this administration is taking that into account.
6
Now where is travel time mentioned such as time to get to the ferry and to Midtown from the 34th Street dock or even the ferry trip itself.
The ferries hold 149 passengers. Subway trains how many times that number?
The ferries hold 149 passengers. Subway trains how many times that number?
4
"It figures -- this is happening now that waterfront neighborhoods in Brooklyn and Queens have become chic. When these were working-class neighborhoods, no one cared about our commutes. I know, because I took the R for 25 years."
that's life. maybe if the city had not expropriated the private subway lines in 1948 there already would have have been ferry service created by private companies.
that's life. maybe if the city had not expropriated the private subway lines in 1948 there already would have have been ferry service created by private companies.
3
Above all, the commuters will breathe fresh air for the duration of the ride.
the city should keep its hands off. otherwise, t will be another fiasco like the 2nd ave. subway and the fulton street subway station renovation.
This is a wonderful, much-needed plan, but flawed for neglecting the biggest transit desert in the city: deep-south Brooklyn communities like Marine Park, Flatbush, Mill Basin, Canarsie. Why not a single stop from Bay Ridge to the Rockaways? The ferries could easily make calls at Canarsie pier, Floyd Bennett Field or Gateway Marina on Flatbush Avenue, Shellbank Creek or Sheepshead Bay, thus providing a viable commuting alternative for a section of the city promised subway service since the 1930s.
7
After hurricane Sandy the Rockaways was given a ferry to replace the A train that stopped running. This was a gift of Sandy. After De Blasio was elected he chose discontinue the service. We were begging for the ferry service for years before Sandy. Rocakway has grown tremendously over the last decade without any consideration for transportation. It took a little time for people to realize it was even available but soon became the most viable way of transportation from the Rockaway and a great success.
Not only did it benefit the commuters from Rockaway to Manhattan but people from Manhattan discovered Rockaway. The boat were filled both ways. It was a boom to businesses in Rockaway. Discontinuing the ferry was a shock to the community.
For whatever reason, political or otherwise, the ferry was removed it now looks like it's coming back just in time for the election.
Not only did it benefit the commuters from Rockaway to Manhattan but people from Manhattan discovered Rockaway. The boat were filled both ways. It was a boom to businesses in Rockaway. Discontinuing the ferry was a shock to the community.
For whatever reason, political or otherwise, the ferry was removed it now looks like it's coming back just in time for the election.
3
How can the editor not require the reporter as a matter of course to report the subsidy amount per ride as compared to the subway, bus, etc. It is the only way for reader to get handle on cost, which is a core part of the article?
1
I like a boat ride as much as the next guy but I don't see how this will solve our commuting problems. How many NYers live within walking distance of the water? And how many of those people work with in walking distance of the water? In my own situation I would have to take a subway to the water and from the water to my workplace. Problem not solved.
Yesterday, mid-morning, as I waited a good 15 minutes for an M train to take me a few stops to a medical appointment, I thought about how I USED to consider the subway a smarter, faster alternative to above-ground modes of transportation. Now, not so much. There are constant announcements about WHY the trains are running slow AF today, "incidents," "train traffic ahead," "sick passenger," what have you. The trains are not reliable anymore. What are we left with? Citibike? Ferries to nowhere? Would an extensive ferry system have gotten me to my appointment on time yesterday. I wish! But this in not Venice.
Yesterday, mid-morning, as I waited a good 15 minutes for an M train to take me a few stops to a medical appointment, I thought about how I USED to consider the subway a smarter, faster alternative to above-ground modes of transportation. Now, not so much. There are constant announcements about WHY the trains are running slow AF today, "incidents," "train traffic ahead," "sick passenger," what have you. The trains are not reliable anymore. What are we left with? Citibike? Ferries to nowhere? Would an extensive ferry system have gotten me to my appointment on time yesterday. I wish! But this in not Venice.
7
The Staten Island ferry is the only affordable option to leave the island and get to Manhattan, but it's not easily accessible to tens of thousands of Staten Island residents. While the city is building new ferry landings in the other boroughs, please give Staten Island an additional location (or two) from which to catch "the boat."
Interesting that there is no mention of the downside of this plan - increased air pollution in the areas where these ferries will be operating. Why not make this an all-electric fleet that will decrease emissions rather than increase them significantly?
4
They're going to need it when Manhattan starts looking like the Netherlands.
1
Omission: New York Times. Ferry stops will include ROOSEVELT ISLAND. Ferry inauguration will coincide with the opening of CORNELL TECH on the island.
1
This is a fantastic and long overdue idea. Would be great to augment with more public access along the shoreline as well.
1
For anyone who has visited or lived in Istanbul - ferry service works great and is a comfortable and pleasant way to get around the city.
What about people on the west side of manhattan?
3
This will be a nice amenity for people living in wealthy neighborhoods on the waterfront. And for those parts of the waterfront that haven't become heavily gentrified, this plan will no doubt make them attractive options for hipsters and yuppies looking for working-class and ethnic neighborhoods to colonize.
Why can't we spend that money to fix our subway system, installing new signaling systems so we can have more trains and countdown clocks and maybe have a system worthy of the 21st century? And while we're at it, why not devote this kind of money to the Triboro Rx subway line so that Keller can travel between the Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens without having to go through Manhattan?
Why can't we spend that money to fix our subway system, installing new signaling systems so we can have more trains and countdown clocks and maybe have a system worthy of the 21st century? And while we're at it, why not devote this kind of money to the Triboro Rx subway line so that Keller can travel between the Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens without having to go through Manhattan?
2
Say for example you work in midtown. If you bus to east or west side to get on ferry during rush hour, that's at least a half hour ride. Then by the time the boat docks and change over is done that's another 15 mins. 45 mins into commute and you are not even out of midtown area. Another 20 to 30 mins to destination. Then if you live in middle of borough another 40 min bus ride to neighborhood. So an average commute for a non water front neighborhood could be 2 hrs.
2
For a person commuting to and from non-waterfront destinations, there will still be the subway and buses - which will, with any luck, be less crowded due to the folks taking the ferries.
And when the water freezes in the winter?
It would have been smarter to build hundreds of buses and dedicate bridge and tunnel lanes to buses.
It would have been smarter to build hundreds of buses and dedicate bridge and tunnel lanes to buses.
1
What about Gravesend and Bath Beach? I think our mayor should be forced to tale the D train from Coney Island to Grand Street for a week. At least this is a better idea than that stupid street car.
5
This ex-Brooklynite agrees with you. Remeber though that in deBlasio's world Bath Beach, Gravesend and Sheepshead Bay are not fashionable.
A much better idea than the Brooklyn-Queens waterfront monorail. It won't make a huge impact on the city's transit woes in the short term. But it's an important first step in integrating smaller water craft into the public mass transit system. There's lots of room to grow this idea, unlike the streetcar. I would love to see the return of the ferry to LGA that Delta ran briefly in the 1990's: by far the most pleasant way to get to Manhattan from the airport.
I appreciate the mayor's concern with fairness, but I do believe that it should cost more than a standard subway fare; it should be priced like an Express Bus, so that it has a better chance of succeeding without needing massive subsidies. Most NYers will see no benefit from this plan and they will not gladly pay for someone else's pleasant commute while they are still packed into 4/5/6 trains. As the water transit system is expanded, the fare can go down. And the waterfront developers also need to contribute as waterfront transit greatly enhances the value of their properties.
I appreciate the mayor's concern with fairness, but I do believe that it should cost more than a standard subway fare; it should be priced like an Express Bus, so that it has a better chance of succeeding without needing massive subsidies. Most NYers will see no benefit from this plan and they will not gladly pay for someone else's pleasant commute while they are still packed into 4/5/6 trains. As the water transit system is expanded, the fare can go down. And the waterfront developers also need to contribute as waterfront transit greatly enhances the value of their properties.
8
Not every plan has episode of The Simpsons to make it more understandable by means the memorable musical number, E.g.: 'The Monorail Song': https://youtu.be/ZDOI0cq6GZM
Prices never go DOWN!
1
Please, spend the funds on improving the existing system especially the subway (more frequent service, newer cars, countdown timers, internet availability) - don't wander off into new territory from nowhere to somewhere?
4
Connecting other transit services to these ferry stations are crucial. At the very least make sure citibike stations with some of those handy valets are located at every ferry terminal. That can help pick up some of the slack. Home - > citibike - > ferry - > citibike - >work.
1
citibike should be especially practical and useful in snow and rain.
People are carping already:
How to get to the terminals? Probably by new or altered bus routes.
New subway lines would be more energy efficient? Try coming up with the money for even one extension of a subway line today!
Boats not big enough? Smaller is cheaper, more efficient, fast and nimble.
Too few commuters along these routes? Are you kidding? Have you seen the L lately?
This is a truly great idea. And I've not been a fan of DeBlasio's politics. But this is pro-NYC in a non-partisan, visionary way. And a ferry terminal in the LES could help revive the whole neighborhood around the East River economically. This is Jane Jacobs-style city planning.
How to get to the terminals? Probably by new or altered bus routes.
New subway lines would be more energy efficient? Try coming up with the money for even one extension of a subway line today!
Boats not big enough? Smaller is cheaper, more efficient, fast and nimble.
Too few commuters along these routes? Are you kidding? Have you seen the L lately?
This is a truly great idea. And I've not been a fan of DeBlasio's politics. But this is pro-NYC in a non-partisan, visionary way. And a ferry terminal in the LES could help revive the whole neighborhood around the East River economically. This is Jane Jacobs-style city planning.
9
Smaller is never more efficient when it comes to boats with engines.
Like in in 'Jaws' maybe we do need bigger boats. Bus routes can be altered/extended provided streets are wide enough. Getting the MTA to cooperate is another story. Some new ferry location will need parking lots too.
The SF Bay Ferry System, is actually 2 systems (Goldwn Gate and SF Bay Ferry) that together move over 5 mioon passengers a year. Ridership is booming here for a very basic reason.'As someone fortunate to commute via ferry most weekdays - I know firsthand-there is nothing like gliding across the open water to/from work. It beats a crowded train/bus any day!
I hope NY has success building its ferry system!
I hope NY has success building its ferry system!
1
Someone has got to do something. The City has gotten so crowded lately. Everything. The subways, the roads, the sidewalks, Can't even j-walk anymore. Driving is torture. Parking is worse!
5
way too many people live in NY. Many need to leave. That is the solution.
I am concerned that failure to think large enough on this might lead to an avoidable failure and dismissal of water travel as a mass transit option in NYC. Larger capacity boats are a must in order to have any easing effect on other transit options. Additionally, the scale of the return on investment is increased by use of larger boats.
1
If no new public transportation is planned for the west side, then no new development should be planned. The subway infrastructure cannot take more trains and the trains cannot take more people.
4
Hamburg, Germany, is a city built on rivers and canals. It has an extensive series of commuting ferries and they charge what the subway system does. Some of the connections are over half an hour. It's a great system and maybe the New York City ferries will be just as impressive when finished.
1
not likely, US infrastructure is poorly run and administered, unlike German, French or British subway and public infrastructure systems.
1
In Bangkok, there are commuter ferries on the Chau Prahya river and they are usually very full of people and they are very inexpensive and also avoid the street congestion.
Mayor Bill De Blasio's $325 million proposal to expand ferry service to all five boroughs is logical as it is exciting. We are after all, a city of islands and it makes perfect sense New Yorker's would be well served by a transportation network of ferries that utilizes one of our most abundant natural resources. But to make this system truly work, some sort of working relationship should be forged with the Metropolitan Transit Authority, so that we might see seamless transfers and connections between ferry service, subways and buses. Only then would a ferry system prove to be truly successful.
7
Much as I love boats, this is a bad plan. They don't carry very many people or reach very many points and it takes far longer to re-run them than subways or buses.
4
I have been in one city in which water transit worked brilliantly: Brisbane, Australia. It works because of the distinctive topography. Brisbane is built on a series of hills among which the Brisbane River meanders in a shape not unlike the human intestinal tract. The City Cat zigzags from one side of the river to the other as it winds among the hills and their various neighborhoods. It is an efficient way to get from the central business district to the arts and performance spaces on South Bank, or to the University of Queensland and a number of inner-city neighborhoods lining the various bends and turns of the river. Trains and busses are also provided but for moving around the main parts of the older core of the city nothing can beat the City Cat. The water ways around the NYC boroughs are not as contorted as the Brisbane River but if the routes were to zigzag from one bank to the other they might serve a lot more people than at first seems possible.
7
NYC largest in the world? According to http://www.transdev.com.au/business-activity/our-operations/ferries-in-b..., Brisbane's City Cats and ferries carry 5.1 million passengers per year.
1
Nice information thanks for sharing
RRB NTPC results 2016
RRB NTPC results 2016 declared CEN 03/2015 Railway graduate level Non technical results at region wise websites roll number wise merit list cut off
RRB NTPC results 2016
RRB NTPC results 2016 declared CEN 03/2015 Railway graduate level Non technical results at region wise websites roll number wise merit list cut off
De Blasio is solving for the wrong variable. The problem is the unfettered addition of expensive condos & rentals all over Manhattan, in LIC, and W'burg. Without that, the subways would be doing fine.
Wouldn't it be refreshing if, when developers want to build, someone in city government said "wait, we don't have the infrastructure to support that"?
NYC is going down the drain because it appears that unfettered (and city-supported) development of luxury housing for the wealthy is now considered more important than anything else, including the unsexy stuff like being able to GET somewhere by subway or bus, having enough schools, hospitals, etc.
NYC is becoming enormously over-built with no corresponding increase in support services. I guess the silicon-valley-east types will just Uber to their destinations; only the poor and "ordinary" will take the nearly-dysfunctional subways & buses.
Maybe de Blasio can give each of us a personal transportation drone - get picked up at your home, get dropped off right in front of your office building.
The ferry idea will turn out to be an over-budget, behind-schedule boondoggle - and it really seems like just one more re-election ploy by de Blasio.
Wouldn't it be refreshing if, when developers want to build, someone in city government said "wait, we don't have the infrastructure to support that"?
NYC is going down the drain because it appears that unfettered (and city-supported) development of luxury housing for the wealthy is now considered more important than anything else, including the unsexy stuff like being able to GET somewhere by subway or bus, having enough schools, hospitals, etc.
NYC is becoming enormously over-built with no corresponding increase in support services. I guess the silicon-valley-east types will just Uber to their destinations; only the poor and "ordinary" will take the nearly-dysfunctional subways & buses.
Maybe de Blasio can give each of us a personal transportation drone - get picked up at your home, get dropped off right in front of your office building.
The ferry idea will turn out to be an over-budget, behind-schedule boondoggle - and it really seems like just one more re-election ploy by de Blasio.
16
Absolutely correct. Western Queens is being built up with huge high-rise apartment complexes. We know the Queens subways serving that area are already jam-packed. But is there water/sewer infrastructure to support all these new units? What about schools? The topic never even comes up. On S.I. we only have 3 water/sewer treatments facilities for 473,000 people. The newest facility in Oakwood (flood zone) is over 30 years old. No plans for a 4th plant anywhere.
2
I know what you mean. From my office window in Midtown East, I can see ugly glass boxes springing up like weeds. However, the city has to grow into all five boroughs to maintain its vibrancy because Manhattan will one day will likely become enclave only for the very rich. What existed previously on the river were ugly, polluting factories. Those will never come back, and that is good thing. The industrial areas of Queens and Brooklyn need to be modernized and made accessible with green spaces, river access and facilities like hospitals, social services, healthy food markets.
I completely agree, though, that developers should be required to do transportation and environmental impact studies on the effect of the additional number of residents that will occupy those glass towers and pay the city and state accordingly rather than getting massive tax breaks for doing what they would have done without the tax breaks.
I completely agree, though, that developers should be required to do transportation and environmental impact studies on the effect of the additional number of residents that will occupy those glass towers and pay the city and state accordingly rather than getting massive tax breaks for doing what they would have done without the tax breaks.
2
Manhattan will one day will likely become enclave only for the very rich.
is that not the case already?
is that not the case already?
3
Good move for an already overcrowded transit system servicing NYC. If the 'subway price' is made extensive to any other transport facility, a grateful public will contribute by liberal use, and those used to have their own vehicle could avoid driving to 'the city', hence, cut on contamination (gas and noise). After all, NYC depends on the influx of people servicing it, and make it efficient and affordable at the same time. And don't forget the bikes and the scooters. And smiles.
8
More taxes on the way with those Ideas that will only benefit parts of the city not to all. And for those ideas we have to pay more taxes.
2
While this strategy does directly benefit those who reside in developments along the Brooklyn/Queens waterfront, it is a relatively inexpensive solution (millions, not billions) to take a load off the overburdened subway system. Hopefully this will allow the MTA more flexibility in implementing much needed infrastructural upgrades.
Redundancy in service is key. See the speedy restoration of the R train tunnels from Court St vs. the impending L train apocalypse.
Redundancy in service is key. See the speedy restoration of the R train tunnels from Court St vs. the impending L train apocalypse.
2
I think a better use of this money would be to improve existing infrastructure or cut my taxes.
This is obviously a vanity project for Mayor de Blasio.
This is obviously a vanity project for Mayor de Blasio.
4
Venice, Italy has been running ferries for years and years and they don't even have a subway system. It's either the vaporetti or walking.
3
I am disappointed Staten Island is not included in this expansion.
3
Originally a ferry from the Stapleton area was part of the plan, no indication in the story as to why it was dropped. S.I. elected officials wanted ferry service from the east and south shores. But in the past local resident have objected to the proposed locations. This is an auto-based borough and new ferries mean a lot of cars looking for parking. Great Kills Harbor has been suggested but buses can't navigate the narrow streets, and only on-street parking available.
Not nearly as bad as his proposed folly to build a $3 billion streetcar (yes, streetcar) that would run from Red Hook to Astoria. But still bad.
And could we stop subsidizing the development of tens of thousands of new housing units, like the East New York folly. Yes, we need affordable housing. But given the crowded conditions of the roads and the subway system, we would e better off with next to no new housing until the problems are solved.
And could we stop subsidizing the development of tens of thousands of new housing units, like the East New York folly. Yes, we need affordable housing. But given the crowded conditions of the roads and the subway system, we would e better off with next to no new housing until the problems are solved.
2
I took a ferry to work in Hong Kong before they extended the subway to the NT. It took much longer (time to and from and waiting) and a lot of walking (to and from and on). Yes, it was beautiful and more relaxing, but as a native New Yorker who thinks that NYC and HK are more alike than any other cities in their fast pace, I cannot imagine commuters willing to add time and effort to their work days. It was a great idea, but in practice, I gave it up.
5
I'm commuting to work on a HK ferry now. I love it because it allows me to spend some quality time with my smartphone. And, like you say, it's relaxing.
If NYC can do it, they should. Get a private company to do it though, like New World Bus/Ferry.
If NYC can do it, they should. Get a private company to do it though, like New World Bus/Ferry.
1
that smartphone will be fun to use in bad weather on these small boats!
We need a tunnel from Staten Island to Manhattan.
They stole 18 acres of public land on the Staten Island side and are building a Wheel, Hotel, and Mall.
NYC dumped it's garbage on Staten Island for decades, they built the Verrazano Bridge connecting us to Brooklyn forever damming Staten Island to pollution, gridlock and rising prices.
Developers continue to carve up the North Shore with no remorse.
NYC owes Staten Island. The Mayor can keep his ferries and his grand dreams.
Give Staten Island it's due.
Staten Island politicians need to be replaced with people with vision, and independence from their Manhattan handlers.
They stole 18 acres of public land on the Staten Island side and are building a Wheel, Hotel, and Mall.
NYC dumped it's garbage on Staten Island for decades, they built the Verrazano Bridge connecting us to Brooklyn forever damming Staten Island to pollution, gridlock and rising prices.
Developers continue to carve up the North Shore with no remorse.
NYC owes Staten Island. The Mayor can keep his ferries and his grand dreams.
Give Staten Island it's due.
Staten Island politicians need to be replaced with people with vision, and independence from their Manhattan handlers.
3
I can't take you seriously if you're an adult who doesn't know the difference between its and it's
Manhattan - S.I. tunnel would cost over $15B and this will never be built.
It would be nice if the Mayor would spend some money on or encourage the spending of money on maintanance of the streets and subways in neighborhoods where he is seeking to add density to make developers happy. Mia's he even seen the filthy streets and subway stations!
I would nit trust this guy to put together a ferry system where people could drown!
I would nit trust this guy to put together a ferry system where people could drown!
8
How about putting one of those ferry terminals next to Terminal D at LGA to help eliminate a few thousand cabs heading in and out of the city each day? A fast boat and a $10 one-way fare be a welcome improvement until the day that New York actually has a subway link with the airport like most major cities do.
20
Ferries used to run to LGA, docking adjacent to the Marine Terminal. Makes total sense.
isn't water travel horribly inefficient for light cargo (including people) from an energy standpoint?
1
As other people have noted the boats are way too small. At least 500 passengers per boat would be the minimum. Then you have the boarding and unboarding problems. You shouldn't have the boats packed tight with people like the subway because in case of an accident everyone would have to get to a life preservers quickly. It's done well with the Staten Island ferries because the docks are but to handle thousands of people. To get 500 or more on and off quickly would be a challenge. Smaller boats would just not cut it.
7
I recently started riding the San Francisco ferry to commute, and I was immediately shocked by how civilized the whole experience was compared to fighting through traffic. It's amazing that NYC hasn't started doing this already and I'm sure it will be a boon for fighting congestion.
7
I don't see how this will pan out. I still believe we are WAY OVERDUE inter-borough rapid transit options, another East River tunnel or bridge crossing, as well as a Hudson River tunnel or bridge crossing with the amount of traffic we have coming into Manhattan. We already surpassed the projected population growth estimates (FYI: according to this site: http://newyorkyimby.com/2015/04/new-york-city-is-already-at-its-2020-pop..., we are already at what was projected to be our 2020 population level). We are at over-capacity, folks. And we haven't even dealt with adapting to climate change like rising sea levels. Corporate parks in the out boroughs really never took off because of poor transportation options and are very car-centric (I used to work at College Point Corporate Park and the transportation there was horrible - you were forced to use your car). I would only pilot this with a private company not with public money.
Bravo for the Mayor.
Years ago when I lived in Brooklyn Heights I used to dream of being able to step onto a boat which would take me to Wall Street, 34th Street, 42nd Street - you name it, all without the squalor and pain of the subway. I thought that the Day Line boats might be used during rush hours. Everyone I talked to said it was impossible.
Imagine starting one's day feasting on one of the world's most exciting skylines or ending it with the lights of Manhattan twinkling beautifully in the background.
I can't wait.
Years ago when I lived in Brooklyn Heights I used to dream of being able to step onto a boat which would take me to Wall Street, 34th Street, 42nd Street - you name it, all without the squalor and pain of the subway. I thought that the Day Line boats might be used during rush hours. Everyone I talked to said it was impossible.
Imagine starting one's day feasting on one of the world's most exciting skylines or ending it with the lights of Manhattan twinkling beautifully in the background.
I can't wait.
6
I'm kind of surprised that neither in the article nor in the comments is there even a mention of expected sea level rise and its likely impact on some sections of subway lines (anticipated by the damage caused by Sandy a few years ago). That alone will help make ferry service a real asset to the City.
7
The cost comparison to Sydney and SF is misleading. In Sydney rides are done by distance but there are also caps to what your fares are over several days, weeks or months if you are using the free NFC transit card. This means if you take one ferry ride, yes you do pay more than a short bus trip, but if you commute over a month it does not unduly penalize you for living farther out.
In SF, the ferries are replacements for commutes to suburbs and are competitively priced as compared to similar length commuter trains in the South Bay as opposed to the flat intra-city bus rate.
NY's magnetic strip MetroCard is so outdated compared to nearly every other modern city out there and the fixation on maintaining flat fares is very misguided and unfortunate compared to other much more innovation solutions that have been in place in other locales for many years now.
In SF, the ferries are replacements for commutes to suburbs and are competitively priced as compared to similar length commuter trains in the South Bay as opposed to the flat intra-city bus rate.
NY's magnetic strip MetroCard is so outdated compared to nearly every other modern city out there and the fixation on maintaining flat fares is very misguided and unfortunate compared to other much more innovation solutions that have been in place in other locales for many years now.
1
Keeping a flat fee is what makes the nyc system so great
It doesn't price people out
Also it is the biggest system this side of the pond
It would cost more to implement than it would benefit the public
It doesn't price people out
Also it is the biggest system this side of the pond
It would cost more to implement than it would benefit the public
1
Ferries are slow and provide point-to-point transportation. How many people live within walking or working distance to the planned terminals? Will this really solve the congestion problem?
8
If you think modern ferries are slow, look at the ones carrying commuters from Jersey City and Hoboken to Manhattan. They are not the Staten Island ferry boats!
1
GREAT idea! The subway lines are jam-packed and many roads and highways virtually gridlocked. And BOTH are crumbling from heavy use and deferred maintenance. The public is often unhappy with multi-$billion, long, long-terms capital construction projects.
NY used to have literally hundreds of ferries across the Hudson and East Rivers! Many were casualties of highways and planning the City in terms of roads' development a la Moses. Time to come up with some new ideas again!
NY used to have literally hundreds of ferries across the Hudson and East Rivers! Many were casualties of highways and planning the City in terms of roads' development a la Moses. Time to come up with some new ideas again!
6
For $375 million the city could have installed rail service on the North Shore of Staten Island that would have carried the same number of passengers at less cost. And it would have served a poor community that suffers from a terrible transit system.
6
I don't know who does the cities research but the Seattle ferry system claims to have had 23.9 million riders in 2015. Maybe someone from NYC should talk with the people who run that ferryboat system. Why would you throw San Francisco into the mix?
1
Because NYC has chosen a SF based company to run the program? And this gives context to the company's abilities? Seems pretty obvious to me.
1
It sounds like the mayor's goal is closer in scale to San Francisco's volume like the article states, whereas the article omits the enormous size of the Washington State Ferries system like you indicated. The consultant he hired was with WSF though, not San Francisco.
This is a great idea! Having taken the ferry out of Larkspur while in San Francisco, it was one of the highlights of my visit. I love the ferry transportation to the Ferry Building where you can dine and shop. And since the five boroughs of New York City are surrounded in part by water, this is a great means of transportation. And, more importantly, after 9/11, it was the only way some people could get home to New Jersey from lower Manhattan--by ferry! Why can't we build beautiful ports along the shorelines for the ferries so that we can improve ferry transportation for everyone, not only to get to work or for visitors, but as a means of transportation in emergencies when trains and buses aren't available.
5
This is the most idiotic idea the mayor has come up with yet. Staten Island is served primarily by ferry service and if you asked residents there if they would be willing to trade their schlep to the terminal, herding onto boarding ramps next to someone who smells like wet livestock, followed by at least a 30 minute trip, for a rail connection into Manhattan, just about everyone after they were done kvetching about how yesterday's commute was very similar to Planes, Trains,and Automobiles, would reply where do I sign up. Bad weather further complicates what limited reliability is delivered. If it doesn't work well where it has been operating for over a century, why would you want to expand it; unless the possible answer is you can't get any more contributions from the usual sources, maybe boat builders and operators will have some mayoral sized gratitude.
14
It figures -- this is happening now that waterfront neighborhoods in Brooklyn and Queens have become chic. When these were working-class neighborhoods, no one cared about our commutes. I know, because I took the R for 25 years.
20
Will hearing access including but not limited to caption boards and induction loops be included on the ferries like in Seattle?
Janice S. Lintz, CEO, Hearing Access & Innovations
Former Member of US Access Board's Passenger Vessel and Emergency Alarms Committee
Janice S. Lintz, CEO, Hearing Access & Innovations
Former Member of US Access Board's Passenger Vessel and Emergency Alarms Committee
2
Go look at Istanbul, a city that has a geography not unlike New York with bodies of water dividing the city into pieces. It has a system where ferry rides cost the same as subways and buses. It works beautifully and is beloved by locals and visitors.
25
Very nice, but how about those of us who live on the West Side? Crosstown traffic is horrendous, so why not a fast ferry from the Upper West Side to the Financial District and then on to the East Side and Brooklyn? Or how about a commuters' "circle line" that can serve all of Manhattan and connect us to far-flung boroughs (and perhaps even LGA and JFK)?
17
So true! New ferry terminals have been built up and down the Hudson and are connected to cross-town buses already...
No Staten Island to Brooklyn service? No Bronx to Queens? This still looks very much like a Manhattan-centric service that's not going to do much for interboro commuting.
SF Bay Ferry is a joke. It carries 2.5 million per year while NY Waterway alone carries 4x that number. The Staten Island Ferry carries twice as many people as NY Waterway. Add SeaStreak to that and New York Harbor has twice as many daily ferry riders as Sydney does.
The only thing NY has to learn from Sydney or SF is fare and network integration amongst the different operators.
SF Bay Ferry is a joke. It carries 2.5 million per year while NY Waterway alone carries 4x that number. The Staten Island Ferry carries twice as many people as NY Waterway. Add SeaStreak to that and New York Harbor has twice as many daily ferry riders as Sydney does.
The only thing NY has to learn from Sydney or SF is fare and network integration amongst the different operators.
4
From my observation, most of the riders on the Staten Island Ferry are tourists who take the free round trip, disembark and go no further than the waiting room for the trip back to the Battery. They should at least charge a quarter each way for the non-residents, especially when they build that Ferris wheel giving SI a tourist destination. God knows, they will drop $200 in a heartbeat for an eight minute helicopter ride.
The subway system was built as a feeder system into Midtown and Downtown Manhattan because those were the major business districts and little has changed. Only a few people commute between the Bronx and Queens or between Brooklyn and Staten Island.
1
Well, judging from one of the pictures here, I will say that Mayor Bill De Blasio is tall. I guess that translates into tall ideas. Regardless, this is a good thing.
5
Ridiculously inefficient compared to subway and mass transit. So people will walk or take buses and subways to and from the waterfront ferries, on top of waiting for the ferries to start and stop and let passengers on and off at the various waterfront stops. Excellent way to regress back to the 19th century.
11
Ha.
This is an idea supported by politicians and bureaucrats who are not contaminated by any familiarity with marine transport.
I have never lived in NYC but use subway fairly often while there on business (I have also practiced marine law in SF and London and have a deep sea master's license.) What NY really needs is expanded rail. Ferries require commuters to get from someplace to ferry terminal and from ferry terminal to where they are going. Hence this service will likely be inconvenient for most people, underused and not relieve congestion on subways nor send subway to places it does not now go. Also not sure its good policy to make non-users subsidize underused ferry system. That can’t help but reduce funds available for improving subway and bus service.
Google Jones Act and Passenger Services Act. Yes, ferries must be made in USA which dramatically increases their initial cost and replacement cost (hence El Farro was kept in service much longer than it should have been, its archaic steam plant lost power in a storm and it sank.) So ferries may seem cheap to buy but are expensive to maintain, and that cost rises with length of time in service.
Really, before embarking on this Titanic endeavor, examine Washington State and British Columbia ferry system experience. Ferries will cost much more than expected and be underused, and if they do not work out will be worth perhaps just scrap value. At least a major and over budget subway project would actually be used.
This is an idea supported by politicians and bureaucrats who are not contaminated by any familiarity with marine transport.
I have never lived in NYC but use subway fairly often while there on business (I have also practiced marine law in SF and London and have a deep sea master's license.) What NY really needs is expanded rail. Ferries require commuters to get from someplace to ferry terminal and from ferry terminal to where they are going. Hence this service will likely be inconvenient for most people, underused and not relieve congestion on subways nor send subway to places it does not now go. Also not sure its good policy to make non-users subsidize underused ferry system. That can’t help but reduce funds available for improving subway and bus service.
Google Jones Act and Passenger Services Act. Yes, ferries must be made in USA which dramatically increases their initial cost and replacement cost (hence El Farro was kept in service much longer than it should have been, its archaic steam plant lost power in a storm and it sank.) So ferries may seem cheap to buy but are expensive to maintain, and that cost rises with length of time in service.
Really, before embarking on this Titanic endeavor, examine Washington State and British Columbia ferry system experience. Ferries will cost much more than expected and be underused, and if they do not work out will be worth perhaps just scrap value. At least a major and over budget subway project would actually be used.
19
I've lived in NYC, and just was in Washington State AND BC, took train from Seattle to Vancouver, ferries in Vancouver, ferry to Victoria from Vancouver, ferry to Seattle from Victoria. Ferries are a pain in the behind, for the reason you said - have to figure out how to get to the ferry & from the ferry to actual destination. Also very much more expensive than a train. Underutilized when there are other ways to get to & from- there's no other way to get to & from Victoria BC, so it makes sense there. Expanded train service & new tunnels are the way to go here.
4
If the boats are only meant to hold 150 people, this plan is comical.
1
Some of the Staten Island Ferries can carry up to SIX THOUSAND passengers.
Boats with a capacity of less than 200 passengers. This is toy system not
a mass transit idea. How about adding a new high capacity ferry on one
route to start and see how that goes. Williamsburg to Manhattan would
be a great idea Mr. Mayor, especially if we need to renovate the L train.
But again, it is to be expected of you, a gifted politician and clueless manager.
Boats with a capacity of less than 200 passengers. This is toy system not
a mass transit idea. How about adding a new high capacity ferry on one
route to start and see how that goes. Williamsburg to Manhattan would
be a great idea Mr. Mayor, especially if we need to renovate the L train.
But again, it is to be expected of you, a gifted politician and clueless manager.
8
Hold that thought until after Stringer whips Mayor Bill in the next election.
1
Sounds like a very good idea. I would commute this way, if it was available.
7
$325MM is a large price to transport 4.5MM people in a year. That is less than subways transport each day.
6
So true. Not sure people outside NYC realize that. I'd like to know what ferry companies or related companies have lobbied for this?
3
What about the insane East Side Connector that is basically a $11 billion regional train stop that does nothing to expand service? Or the $1 billion South Ferry 1 train station that just modernized an old station and permitted people to exit from all cars instead of the first five? Let's not even bring up the $4 billion Oculus or its neighboring $1 billion subway station.
NYC has a history of spending super-big dollars on somewhat pointless transit projects. In that context, ferries seem both reasonable and cost-effective, particularly if they become reliable enough to be woven into the daily transit fabric instead of the most-tourist orientation they have now in the five boroughs.
NYC has a history of spending super-big dollars on somewhat pointless transit projects. In that context, ferries seem both reasonable and cost-effective, particularly if they become reliable enough to be woven into the daily transit fabric instead of the most-tourist orientation they have now in the five boroughs.
the developers of land have probably more.
TOP TEN REASONS WHY THIS IS A DUMB IDEA
#10. The rivers have no traffic lights.
#9. Boats have no brakes.
#8. Fog
#7. Storms
#6. 149 passengers is fewer than 2 subway cars including straphangers.
#5. Several crewmen per boat is equivalent to a dozen per subway train.
#4. Every landing must be at a subway station.
#3. Terrorist fantasy.
#2. One capsized boat has more lost lives than any subway crash in history.
And the #1 reason why this is a dumb idea: Socialism? Really?
(Texan by way of Brooklyn)
#10. The rivers have no traffic lights.
#9. Boats have no brakes.
#8. Fog
#7. Storms
#6. 149 passengers is fewer than 2 subway cars including straphangers.
#5. Several crewmen per boat is equivalent to a dozen per subway train.
#4. Every landing must be at a subway station.
#3. Terrorist fantasy.
#2. One capsized boat has more lost lives than any subway crash in history.
And the #1 reason why this is a dumb idea: Socialism? Really?
(Texan by way of Brooklyn)
15
Ive seen fog three time in 45 years living in NYC, when there are storms you just shut them down, like subways. We already have ferries, so the terrorist fantasy is already possible... these are just bad excuses
2
Then you haven't spent much time on the Staten Island Ferry (not that I blame you). There are days that you can't see more than a few feet out from the boat...and when it's really bad, they'll just delay the departure.
1
This won't matter for as long as de Blasio and co. keep allowing the unchecked development of NYC. From secretly removing deed restrictions on city property, to rubber stamping most proposed high rise developments. Something's got to stop- soon. i looked at the photo of that crowded Union Sq. "L" line platform, and thought ot myself, that this is a 180 from when i lived in NYC some 25 years ago. That platform was half-empty as i remembered it. Soon that will be a similar sight on Bronx, and Bed- Sty platforms if population and development control doesn't common practice. It's as though millions of sheep are being herded off a cliff by clueless sheperds.
8
If anything this should prompt an investigation. Dirty money is all over this and it stinks of a corrupt De Blasio deal. Every palm gets greased in de Blasiostan!
20
So these ferries will require a significant walk to waterfront; single-file queuing; 15-20 minute headways (particularly significant if you don't fit on the first ferry to arrive). They will have less than 10% the capacity of a single rush-hour subway train? Have I gotten all that correct.
I don't care if developers want to supply fringe "mass" transit for their buyers, or if wealthy benefactors want to underwrite vanity projects.
But the idea that any of this would be paid for with public dollars is very disconcerting. This is a lot of money that could be used for grade separation; signal prioritization; expanded prepayment; etc., for an existing system that barely works, i.e. NYCT bus.
I don't care if developers want to supply fringe "mass" transit for their buyers, or if wealthy benefactors want to underwrite vanity projects.
But the idea that any of this would be paid for with public dollars is very disconcerting. This is a lot of money that could be used for grade separation; signal prioritization; expanded prepayment; etc., for an existing system that barely works, i.e. NYCT bus.
31
I wish this were really a boon to working class people, rather than to the billionaire shoreline real estate moguls who have donated to De Blasio.
Given the enormous amount of effort and public money De Blasio was willing to spend on behalf of his donors who opposed carriage rides, it is hard to believe he does not have a similar agenda here.
Given the enormous amount of effort and public money De Blasio was willing to spend on behalf of his donors who opposed carriage rides, it is hard to believe he does not have a similar agenda here.
15
They didn't oppose carriage rides, they opposed abuse of animals and the re-classification stage coaches would use to keep horses too old to work out on the street. They are the LAST industry to defend, sorry fellas.
2
How about fixing our decaying subway first?
Not sexy enough?
Not sexy enough?
24
The subway is controlled by MTA, which is a NY State agency. The ferry is a city project.
3
Jcp's response to you is the real story here. NYC is sunk in a real doozy of a jurisdictional tangle when it comes to nearly all of its transportation problems. This is something the city can do now, relatively speaking, with its own authority and it's own money.
All the people commenting about how the city should spend this money on building a new Hudson River tunnel or fixing up/adding various subway lines don't seem to be aware that NYC's hands are tied in those matters.
All the people commenting about how the city should spend this money on building a new Hudson River tunnel or fixing up/adding various subway lines don't seem to be aware that NYC's hands are tied in those matters.
2
Boston has a similar ferry system, where the price is either one ride on your T pass, or included in the fare if it's unlimited. Since so many train lines have had and will have to be shuttered for post-Sandy and other repairs, this could be very helpful in relieving congestion on other lines. It could also bring mass transit to underserved areas (such as Red Hook), and will help prevent congestion or keep serving areas when trains are taken offline (such as Canarsie residents who currently take the L train).
13
My initial response is: What an interesting idea! Perhaps a specific service can be started as a kind of experiment ASAP to see how it works. The amount of subsidies needed might be a big problem. Charging $2.50 a ride times an average boatload of 120 people comes to $300 income per trip. Will there be available parking at the outer borough stop (like commuter rail)?
Still the experiment is worth trying.
Still the experiment is worth trying.
5
Great, NJ left out again. We have to keep paying that gangster Imperatore's exorbitant fees!
4
Left out? You're not in this game because you choose to pay property taxes over there....
3
Why would New York build a transport system that relies on New York tax dollars and have it serve New Jersey?
5
Yes, and income tax on NYC earnings. Not to mention subsidizing the extortionate Port Authority with all its baggage of political plum jobs.
1
“If you got a lot of money, you can make yourself merry;
If you’ve only got a nickel, it’s the Staten Island Ferry.” ~Bob Dylan
I understand the arguments against this, but we should never forget something that makes New York, or any great city, special: Romance. The water is often the most romantic part of a city, and the poetry of water transportation is a resource we should really give thought to.
I often wondered why Paris, London, or Montreal made such great , egalitarian use of their water fronts while New Yorkers thought nothing of using the piers for towed vehicles, and parking for cement trucks.
The High Line, and the development of the Piers has changed a lot. But as someone who was once tugged into Pier 54, on the original Queen Mary, seeing our beloved skyline from that vantage point is a memory I treasure.
If you’ve only got a nickel, it’s the Staten Island Ferry.” ~Bob Dylan
I understand the arguments against this, but we should never forget something that makes New York, or any great city, special: Romance. The water is often the most romantic part of a city, and the poetry of water transportation is a resource we should really give thought to.
I often wondered why Paris, London, or Montreal made such great , egalitarian use of their water fronts while New Yorkers thought nothing of using the piers for towed vehicles, and parking for cement trucks.
The High Line, and the development of the Piers has changed a lot. But as someone who was once tugged into Pier 54, on the original Queen Mary, seeing our beloved skyline from that vantage point is a memory I treasure.
24
This is about getting to work.
5
Another election-year sop to those large waterfront real estate developers such as Two Trees and the Related Cos who contribute so much to de Blasio's pay-to-play governing. You're so transparent, co-mayor de Blasio.
14
This could be a great idea, except for one thing: the ferry passes are far too expensive, especially given that you must take public transit to and from the ferry station. A monthly unlimited is $160. With metrocard you are paying likely upwards of $200/month to take a slower and more cumbersome method of transportation. I would love to support the ferry system and take advantage of a more pleasant ride (here's looking at you L train) but I can't justify the price.
5
Did you read the article? Its going to cost the same as a subway....
3
not too long ago commuters in the north Bronx and the Rockaways had to pay 2 fares to get to Manhattan. They did it, so can you. People who live in Yonkers, New Rochelle and other Westchester county, Nassau and Suffolk County towns, and those across the river in New Jersey also pay far more in commuter fares. Metro North, LIRR NJ transit ain't cheap you know and from Penn St. and Grand Central they take the subway to complete their journey. I forgot those Expres buses from The Bronx, Yonkers, Staten Island, they too cost a pretty penny. so just inhale, grin and bear it.
4
Here is an image of the proposed routes: http://www.nycedc.com/sites/default/files/filemanager/Projects/Citywide_...
3
"The mayor predicts that the ferries would carry 4.5 million passengers a year, about twice as many riders as San Francisco’s ferry system handles."
Perhaps it's better to make a comparison not to another city, but to something right in our own backyard. Citi Bike, NYC's bike sharing system, had over 8 million trips in 2014. $325 million to launch a ferry service that will see half as many rides as a bike share system that receives no government money hardly seems worth it.
Perhaps it's better to make a comparison not to another city, but to something right in our own backyard. Citi Bike, NYC's bike sharing system, had over 8 million trips in 2014. $325 million to launch a ferry service that will see half as many rides as a bike share system that receives no government money hardly seems worth it.
4
Unfortunately, not everyone can ride bikes. But elderly or disabled MTA patrons in (for example) Red Hook who have to rely on a series of bus transfers to get places might find this incredibly helpful.
1
In Red Hook they would be much better off if the B57 and the B61 came more frequently and were more reliable.
4
a system that will be able to continue even in a blackout!
17
I choose the private NY Waterways ferry over the packed PATH twice a day. The fare is at least 3x but instead over being stuffed into a cattle car, after waiting on a packed platform, dealing with whatever delay/signal problem of the day, I know I'll have a comfortable commute and get to work on time. If we had a better rail system, I would happily take that, but for now, my money (and sanity) will stay with the private company.
12
As an urban designer I can tell you that what this city really needs in order to alleviate congestion is a light rail or tram system to connect within boroughs, and from outer to outer borough.
The transit system is designed to funnel most people through Manhattan, even if that is not their eventual destination, which leads to overcrowding. A larger system of outer borough economic development and above ground light rail would benefit those boroughs and reduce congestion in Manhattan.
DeBlasio has proposed one line from Queens to Red Hook. That's great but it's just a start.
New York can look to New Jersey's ferry system to/from NY as a model for its own ferry expansion. The Port Imperial terminal, for example, has large parking lots and a new garage (and a second being built) to accommodate commuters. NYC would need to consider this as well as excellent connections to existing bus and subway routes. Plus, the price of the ferry is really expensive - nearly $10 for a single ride vs. $3.25 for a bus.
The transit system is designed to funnel most people through Manhattan, even if that is not their eventual destination, which leads to overcrowding. A larger system of outer borough economic development and above ground light rail would benefit those boroughs and reduce congestion in Manhattan.
DeBlasio has proposed one line from Queens to Red Hook. That's great but it's just a start.
New York can look to New Jersey's ferry system to/from NY as a model for its own ferry expansion. The Port Imperial terminal, for example, has large parking lots and a new garage (and a second being built) to accommodate commuters. NYC would need to consider this as well as excellent connections to existing bus and subway routes. Plus, the price of the ferry is really expensive - nearly $10 for a single ride vs. $3.25 for a bus.
9
Cheap infrastructure but hard on the environment and expensive to operate. I guess if the city doesn't have the capital to build fixed infrastructure this is better than nothing but it feels very much like a stopgap to me.
6
Chicago1--Other types of power, rather than gas engine?
1
This is just another expensive transportation project that does not solve a transportation problem.
20
Regardless of the fare, there isn't transit equity if the Ferry has Wi-Fi, outlets, and only 149 passengers. NYC should learn from Sydney and charge more for Ferry service.
5
But that wouldn't be fair to poor people. Everyone knows that in New York today the poor are entitled to everything, no matter who has to subsidize them
4
This is good planning. Use the water to get around and save on building roads. Auckland desperately needs this as well.
5
How about Venice-style gondolas, similar to those proposed for Chicago in 2000? They are probably working quite in the Second City; likely transporting thousands of passengers a day!
1
Ferries are used here in San Francisco by only a narrow sliver of the population. They don't even come up in conversations about public transportation. The overwhelming majority of ferry rides is by tourists going to destinations like Alcatraz. So comparing de Blasio's plan to here is apples and oranges.
6
While it looks like a good idea at first glance, I note that the passenger capacity of each ferry is below that of one single subway car.
22
What? What are the numbers?
The boats should be at least twice that size.
**Capacity at least 300.
1
Imagine that.....
One of the densest population centers with millions of people coming and going,
TO AN ISLAND.
What a novel, new, innovative idea to service that islands transportation issue.
WITH A FERRY.
Ranks up there with "Sliced Bread" and "Napkins"!
Who'd a thunk?
One of the densest population centers with millions of people coming and going,
TO AN ISLAND.
What a novel, new, innovative idea to service that islands transportation issue.
WITH A FERRY.
Ranks up there with "Sliced Bread" and "Napkins"!
Who'd a thunk?
16
The article doesn't mention the operating costs and consequent city subsidies, just the capital cost of the boats. I suspect the per-ride subsidy will be fairly substantial, like $20.
4
The article does say that the plan involves a substantial operating subsidy. The city has agreed to contribute $30 million a year for six years toward the cost of running the system.
I guess I didn't see that $30M/annum operating subsidy. $6.67/ride seems low compared to what the NYC ferries get now. I agree with other commenters that this is just another BdB hand-out to the development community. Pretty shameless.
Perhaps now is a time to reintroduce the idea of congestion pricing for cars entering Manhattan south of 96th St. in the morning. That will certainly address the question of how all of this will be funded.
17
I live on W. 86th St. in NYC but drive into the city from upstate once a week. Why should I pay an extra fee to park my car on my block after having paid the outrageous toll to cross the George Washington Bridge? And pay additionally in often wasted time to move my car twice a week for a mechanical broom that often does not show up because it's Just Too Hard for the Dept. of Sanitation to schedule the machines and drivers? And watch dozens of parking spaces confiscated for film shoots that do nothing but inconvenience me and dozens of other taxpaying city residents? And why just south of 96th Street in Manhattan? Why not north and south of every entry point into Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, and The Bronx? Residents of Staten Island are already penalized enough.
2
Try Metro North or take a bus to travel upstate. That's what thousands of other commuters do. The idea is to keep cars off the road in Manhattan; to reduce the attractiveness of driving into a congested area by "taxing" it.
4
So, when you really look at it, the taxing for driving results in a penalty for those who are not affluent. Why that's the way it's always done. Works perfectly, now there's less traffic to vex those with all that money, being driven around by their hired drivers.
The Rockaways have been such an underserved part of NYC for decades. It's wonderful that they will be on the receiving end of this new transportation initiative. It has been an extremely arduous task to get this plan into effect. If not for a group of Rockaway residents, the ferry service that was in existence temporarily -- due to subway damage from Superstorm Sandy -- would have vanished forever. I suppose "trendiness" accounts for something...
9
No ferries or citibikes for the Boogiedown. Nope. Thanks City Hall..
4
Years ago I had the pleasure of riding the Istanbul public transport system's ferry lines, beautifully connected to the street cars, tulip glasses of tea for I want to say a quarter.
Ok, I know we won't have tea on the ferries, but I'd think it would be a useful point of comparison in terms of how to make this work.
Ok, I know we won't have tea on the ferries, but I'd think it would be a useful point of comparison in terms of how to make this work.
6
On the public transportation ferry I take into Boston each day, there is coffee, tea and other beverages and snacks to buy in the morning and a full bar for the evening commute!
6
No transit system pays its own way. The real question is what value is added for each dollar spent. This is beyond the scope of the article, so all comments on the value of this proposal are based on conjecture absent facts from other credible sources. Time will tell if the City has done its homework properly.
6
I really like the idea of taking a ferry to work and hope this comes to pass!
6
This is how Stockholm works. And it works very well. NYC ought to look at how Stockholm has managed its infrastructure and transit system. We don't think of Stockholm being a city of many islands, but it is.
1
This is not transit equality. The people who live and work near the water are largely in gentrified areas. The average Joe/Jane will still commute using a crumbling subway system and buses that move through unregulated traffic at snail's pace.
I look forward to using this ferry system for fun on the weekends.
I look forward to using this ferry system for fun on the weekends.
6
Villagegirl you need to get out a bit more. There are tons of NYCHA projects near the water: Red Hook, Rockaways, Coney Island, the Lower East Side, and the Farragut Houses by the Navy Yard are the first ones that come to my mind.
4
Gee John, if those oodles of NYCHA projects have been there for decades, then why haven't they gotten their ferry service yet? Do you think maybe, perchance, it has to do with developer's money renting City Hall? Stunningly disingenuous.
5
The residents of all of these NYCHA developments would actually be better served by enhanced bus service.
3
The reason the subways, buses are overcrowded at rush hour is because we still cling to the 20th century idea that office work is 9-5. (Public transportation was just as crowded back then during rush hour. There are photos galore.) Adjust to the 21st century reality of work hours and it's fine. I take them both, subway, bus, during off times and always get a seat.
4
but bulk of workforce must work hrs demanded by employers (i.e., regular business hours). Workforce rarely sets its own work hours.
Oh great, something else to become clogged with tourists and day trippers.
2
Perhaps those tourists and day trippers provide some dollars that keep your overpriced city going???
6
Once again, Staten Island is overlooked! Missing from the plan is ferry service from the Island's south shore! It is totally ridiculous for south shore residents to commute to St. George ferry terminal.
4
Indeed, Staten Island should be a part of such a service, but the those using the existing Ferry service should also pay their fair share of the fare: the Metro Card swipe rather than a free ride. Either way, the Ferry will make offer a major alternative to bus, car, subway. Bravo!
Free ferry fare is the trade-off for high bridge tolls and no rail connection to "the city." The Bayonne Bridge was built for rail, and the NJ terminus is not that far from the 8th St Light Rail Station. The North Shore commuter rail line on SI, abandoned in 1954, runs under the approach to the Bayonne Bridge, and the right of way still exists for the most part. Let's lift the bridge for ship traffic - but no way design for a rail connection. The Verrazzano Bridge was a golden opportunity for connecting by rail to Brooklyn in 1963, but that wasn't part of the plan. Always a bridesmaid....
1
Finally, a good idea out of this administration. As a life long Manhattanite I never understood why our rivers were so under used. There should be boats zipping back and forth. The line that runs from DUMBO to South Street is great - use it all the time. But it could be way more efficient and operate a little more like public transportation and a little less like tourist transportation.
Now get cracking on adding more bike lanes.
Now get cracking on adding more bike lanes.
3
What percentage of the populous will be able to avail themselves of this service?$325 million dollars on a small number seems to be a bad business deal in terms of return on investment. Will people walk or drive to the ferry? Most likely driving. Where will they park? Does this grandiose pie in the sky idea consider that? How many more subway car that may alleviate some of the crowding can be bought with $325 million? I wouldn't get behind this plan proposed by the one term mayor.
24
Thanks for the doubt VA. NYC is a series of islands. many, many people live near the water.
3
I moved here after 6 decades in Brooklyn. So color, l know NYC better than most. Yeah, most live near the water if they turn on their water taps.
1
At $155 for Ciit Bike annual memberships, $325 million would be 2.1 million Citi Bike annual memberships. But oh, wait, the mayor is disinterested in subsidizing this lowest cost, lowest pollution, healthy, transit option, to increase access equity across all neighborhoods? How does this mayor's cost/benefits logic add up? So confused!
Great economic development idea as well. Not only relieves congestion on current strained systems but adds jobs, businesses and property development plus adding tax revenues from new business to the cities needs.
Good Job and best of luck...
Good Job and best of luck...
4
Boats? Seriously? Why not horse and buggy.
he is against the horse and buggy....big time he promised to do away with them.....but can't accomplish that.
2
Readers....want more details...? Simply ask the Real Estate Board of New York...the folks who are designing their self-serving luxury housing waterfront initiative for a 2 1/2 billion dollar streetcar route...Two Trees/Walentas...they're calling the shots on that one...passing right by the rezoned Domino Sugar Factory they now own...
As for the sham proposals to get from here to there...look to REBNY...you know the ones...the deBlasio pals and the City Council Members pay-to-play patrons. After all...it was their outsized political campaign contributions which gave us any number of bought City Council Members...agreeing top sell off libraries and hospitals...and opportunities to parlay "affordable housing" into UNAFFORDABLE housing -rezoning and displacement.
As for infrastructure transportation to comport with the increased density...well... old and disabled people ...just hop on a Citi-Bike-another 'gift' from the Related Companies-developers ad nauseum----profiting by their ownership of City Hall and taxpayers' oblivion.
REBNY owns the Mayor...the Dept of Transportation..the NY Economic Development Corporation...right along with the City Planning Commission and the Chair of the Land Use Committee in the City Council.
The Kool-Aid the Mayor is selling is both a joke and truly depressing.
As for the sham proposals to get from here to there...look to REBNY...you know the ones...the deBlasio pals and the City Council Members pay-to-play patrons. After all...it was their outsized political campaign contributions which gave us any number of bought City Council Members...agreeing top sell off libraries and hospitals...and opportunities to parlay "affordable housing" into UNAFFORDABLE housing -rezoning and displacement.
As for infrastructure transportation to comport with the increased density...well... old and disabled people ...just hop on a Citi-Bike-another 'gift' from the Related Companies-developers ad nauseum----profiting by their ownership of City Hall and taxpayers' oblivion.
REBNY owns the Mayor...the Dept of Transportation..the NY Economic Development Corporation...right along with the City Planning Commission and the Chair of the Land Use Committee in the City Council.
The Kool-Aid the Mayor is selling is both a joke and truly depressing.
18
Although I am in general, no fan of Mr. de Blasio's, I do applaud his idea to explore the idea of a ferry program in NYC. I take a ferry boat to work and back again every day. I live on what is known as the South Shore and I live roughly 20 miles from downtown Boston. My commute is easy, comfortable and enjoyable. The ferry ride is traffic and hassle free and takes a blissful 40 minutes each way. When I get off the boat, I walk about a mile to my office. The ferry dock is in the midst of bustling downtown Boston so for thousands of people living south of the city this is the easiest way into Boston. Granted, this is on a much smaller scale than I imagine a NYC project would be and in Massachusetts we still have a long way to go to broaden this service to all areas, but using waterways for public transportation is a smart idea.
5
This makes SO much sense one can't imagine why water travel hasn't been one of the primary means of transportation forever. WE MUST stop the surface congestion in our cities and foot ferries are a fabulous alternative. It has worked well for Vancouver B.C for decades, as has rapid transit. Let's catch up to the rest of the world, America. Driverless cars? Ridiculous. Abundant, efficient mass transportation is the answer.
56
It WAS one of the primary transpoort means in NYC too, years ago. Roads, subways, and mass transit did the ferries in--just like the trams and trolleys--as too old-fashioned.
Yet look at what Zurich, Geneva, many other Euro cities with enviable, modern transit systems, and progressive South American capitals, like Santiago, rely on for fast, relatively cheap, readily expandable mass transit NOW! Trams and ferries (for cities along rivers, lakes, or sea-coasts)
Yet look at what Zurich, Geneva, many other Euro cities with enviable, modern transit systems, and progressive South American capitals, like Santiago, rely on for fast, relatively cheap, readily expandable mass transit NOW! Trams and ferries (for cities along rivers, lakes, or sea-coasts)
2
Never understood why NYC hasn't maximized the use of its waterways.
8
Everything old is new again. My parents always talked about the myriad of ferries back when they were kids in the 30's and even into the 50's when they had the car ferry from Bay Ridge to Staten Island. New York is a series of islands on the world's greatest natural harbor. The come back of the ferry is long overdue.
13
A money pit. With all the problems the city faces this is a foolish boondoggle. A ferry from the Rockaways never panned out after several attempts. Weather, parking, lengthy travel times all contributed to failure.
48
How about canals? They got skipped in this back-to-the-future gimmick (not quite worthy of Commodore Vanderbilt).
Realistically, this appears to be mostly about allowing relatively higher-rent 'hoods on the east side of the East River to be able to avoid getting on subway cars filled with lesser plebs from the New York Profonde.
A not-quite express (but few stops) ferry from the Rockaways to downtown/midtown would be the lone excetion.
Realistically, this appears to be mostly about allowing relatively higher-rent 'hoods on the east side of the East River to be able to avoid getting on subway cars filled with lesser plebs from the New York Profonde.
A not-quite express (but few stops) ferry from the Rockaways to downtown/midtown would be the lone excetion.
3
I don't even live in any of these neighborhoods, and yet, I fully support the plan (if their figures are accurate). Whatever will lessen the crowding of an ancient subway system that as been operating far over capacity for years. Just the Lexington Ave line alone has gotten so crowded that it seems that no matter what time of day or night one rides it, it is absolutely packed. At this point, any solution that is not overly burdensome to taxpayers is a good one.
9
Pie.
In.
The.
Sky.
Next.
In.
The.
Sky.
Next.
6
I am amazed at how polarizing this topic seems to be. To those who love the idea, remember this will not be a budget neutral idea. Like all mass transit, it will need to be highly subsidized. To those who oppose the measure, what alternative(s) do you propose? The city has gotten more and more crowded, mass transit more crowded and commute times worse and worse. Any alternative will be very expensive, too.
I recognize the inherent limitations and cost but see very little that can be done to improve the situation in a rapid and cost effective fashion.
As long as Staten Islanders as well as new ferry riders will continue to not have to pay a fare (if they use a bus or subway in transfer), I am all for it.
I recognize the inherent limitations and cost but see very little that can be done to improve the situation in a rapid and cost effective fashion.
As long as Staten Islanders as well as new ferry riders will continue to not have to pay a fare (if they use a bus or subway in transfer), I am all for it.
3
Transit equity: how does a plan to connect points among New York City waterfront properties contribute to transit equity? Have you seen the lavish buildings they are constructing along the East River? This will only benefit already-gentrified areas. We need to build transit lines to connect outer Queens and Brooklyn. Actually, we need to build subways pretty much everywhere. Unless these boats will pull right into Grand Central, I don't see New Yorkers liking the notion of having to transfer twice in a single commute.
53
At the age of fourteen, I rode the R107 bus to the SI Ferry, and then caught the M15 up 1st Ave to 14 St, to get to Stuyvesant HS. Sometimes I caught the 4 or 5 train from Bowling Green to Union Square and walked over to 1st. Fifty years later, I still think of the experience as positive, a complement to what I absorbed in the classroom. New Yorkers will always adapt....
8
Yes, in the late 70's and early 80's we were called the boat people
OK. How do you get people to the ferries? And, what stops people from taking the subway. Ride a subway, or bus, get off, get on a ferry?
Ferries work in Sydney, because they all go to the Circular Quay. They come from various destinations in Sydney Harbour, where rail transport does not exit. These are seaside towns within walking distance, or a short drive, to the ferry dock. From the Circular Quay then one can access bus, commuter rail or light rail to their final destination.
New York or not Sydney, geographically speaking. If people do not want to drive, they will have to take public transport to the ferry dock. And those ferries, are going to end up probably at South Ferry. Which means, people getting on the subway to Midtown; moving the problem. The plan will not work if people get off a ferry and have to walk several blocks to catch a subway or a bus.
So, if one lives near Long Island Sound, the East River or Hudson River, this will work for them. A student at St. Johns, it will not work much at all. Especially, if you are trying to get people out of cars and relieve the subway. And, honestly, would a person who gets on a Subway in the northern Bronx, switch to a ferry, knowing the line they are on will drop them off at Grand Central Station?
That money could be better used to improve transport option where is is currently limited.
Ferries work in Sydney, because they all go to the Circular Quay. They come from various destinations in Sydney Harbour, where rail transport does not exit. These are seaside towns within walking distance, or a short drive, to the ferry dock. From the Circular Quay then one can access bus, commuter rail or light rail to their final destination.
New York or not Sydney, geographically speaking. If people do not want to drive, they will have to take public transport to the ferry dock. And those ferries, are going to end up probably at South Ferry. Which means, people getting on the subway to Midtown; moving the problem. The plan will not work if people get off a ferry and have to walk several blocks to catch a subway or a bus.
So, if one lives near Long Island Sound, the East River or Hudson River, this will work for them. A student at St. Johns, it will not work much at all. Especially, if you are trying to get people out of cars and relieve the subway. And, honestly, would a person who gets on a Subway in the northern Bronx, switch to a ferry, knowing the line they are on will drop them off at Grand Central Station?
That money could be better used to improve transport option where is is currently limited.
37
Quite right. Moreover, Sydney doesn't have winter anything remotely like NY winters.
5
If you want to get to the ferry you just RUN - New Yorkers know how to run - right?
Nick, obviously the ferry won't be the best option for everyone. I live in Central Brooklyn and work on 6th Avenue in Manhattan so I'm not near the water on either side of my commute. But the ferry will work for some folks, and it will get them off the overcrowded bridges and subways--that is to everyone's benefit. That's the whole idea of a multi-modal transit system, right? Not everyone takes the Roosevelt Island tram either, but its an important part of the whole.
3
What happens once the ferries drop people off on the various waterfronts? Ferry stops are usually far from existing transportation, so will there be buses to complement the ferries? Will existing bus routes be increased? While this sounds nice in theory, I'd like to see the full plan of how logistically this will work.
77
What IS this with existing transportation - I could run from east side to west side, from Greenwich Village to 575 Madison Avenue - and was in better shape when living in NYC than ever - what IS this with RUNNING -
1
Because the whole idea is just to serve those glass-walled denizens of the riverfront. After that, hire a sedan chair or pedicab to get to your final destination.
1
Wow, what negativity! Public transportation is public transportation, be it rail, bus or ferry. Really, this country has become a nation of whinners and cry babies.
111
Consider the number of people who would benefit from this expenditure of $325,000,000 on ferries versus spending that money on buses. It's not whining.
5
I can't speak for the other readers' negativity, but I dislike this project because the $325 million--an estimate that will surely double or triple--would be better spent on the steadily decaying subway system. Trains and platforms are more crowded than ever. Graffiti and scratchiti are coming back. Turnstile jumping is rampant at stations without clerks.
Spend that money on upgrading track signals so that more trains can run. On cleaning up stations and tracks. On broken escalators. On more cops on trains.
The subway handles about six million riders daily. Its maintenance should come first.
Spend that money on upgrading track signals so that more trains can run. On cleaning up stations and tracks. On broken escalators. On more cops on trains.
The subway handles about six million riders daily. Its maintenance should come first.
4
No, public transportation is not public transportation. New York City can spend limited amounts on public transportation from local, state, and federal sources. Given that constraint, the public has a right to demand that elected officials seek to maximize the value of that spending. Ferries are an expensive way to move people on a per-rider basis, and ferries don't actually solve any public transportation problem since ferry riders will have to make their way to and from ferry slips both boroughs, either by long walks or through the use of still overcrowded mass transit options. Simply put, ferries are politically expedient in that for a limited upfront cost a politician can get a photo op before the start of the next campaign, rather than take a long term view and invest in the expansion of the subway infrastructure that won't see a single rider until another mayor is in office to take credit.
And rather than a "nation of whinners and cry babies," some of us have actually done the hard thinking about mass transit in this city, and actually want to do what's right long term.
And rather than a "nation of whinners and cry babies," some of us have actually done the hard thinking about mass transit in this city, and actually want to do what's right long term.
3
As much as I want to be like, "Hey, this is great!" I think this is going to be one more in de Blasio's line of failed, or stalled, quality-of-life initiatives. Curbside composting? No idea what happened to that. Vision Zero? Not with zero enforcement. That streetcar? Come on. He can't even get a ban on foam food containers passed. I'm waiting for the upcoming plastic-bag fee to be delayed.
17
My large co-op participates in curbside composting. It has exceeded expectations wildly in terms of resident participation and amounts disposed. Our regular garbage is a fraction of what it used to be.
I suggest Mayor DeBlasio walk out of Gracie Mansion and take a look at the "Ferry Pier" at 90th Street and the East River. It was probably built with city funds at great expense, with lots of promises, and as best I can tell, it serves only as a Parking spot for New York Waterway boats. It open to the public maybe 2 days out of the year. Enough big spending boondoggles.
29
Hold on to your wallets. The cost and subsidy estimates are a tiny fraction of what it is going to actually cost you.
Here's a study of a modest 3 boat expansion in Puget Sound where we know a bit about ferries.
http://www.kitsaptransit.com/uploads/pdf/projects/ferryreportfinal.pdf
The estimates for operating revenues for these boats anticipaetea 10 to 15 dollar-per-ride cost, not 2.75.
The delivery timetables for starting these NYC routes (2017) on boats not yet built are jaw-dropping in their lack of understanding about marine construction. Look for the first boats in 2019, and expect cost overruns and continual delays.
Here's a study of a modest 3 boat expansion in Puget Sound where we know a bit about ferries.
http://www.kitsaptransit.com/uploads/pdf/projects/ferryreportfinal.pdf
The estimates for operating revenues for these boats anticipaetea 10 to 15 dollar-per-ride cost, not 2.75.
The delivery timetables for starting these NYC routes (2017) on boats not yet built are jaw-dropping in their lack of understanding about marine construction. Look for the first boats in 2019, and expect cost overruns and continual delays.
30
What is this with WALLETS? - gimme a break - !
Some ferries cost very little to use, and presumably to operate, the Star Ferry in Hong Kong and the Niteroi ferry in Rio come to mind, while others are wildly expensive, like the vaporetti in Venice. Let's go the Star Ferry route.
4
Yes, that was my first thought. The Star ferry may not make for the best comparison, since there are only two routes, but it's a heavily used system beloved by locals and tourists, and it is very inexpensive. Make it cheap, convenient and scenic and they will come. It's worth a shot, and much less costly to build than a new subway tunnel.
6
The cost of building a new subway line is ridiculous. The cost of the ferry system (and any subsidies) is small in comparison to building the Second Avenue Subway or the extension of the 7 Line. The ferry system works well in Sydney; why not go even further and only charge the same as a subway ride.
5
Per the article: "But the mayor has raised the stakes in ways few other places have by pledging that a ferry ride would cost the same as subway fare."
1
The investment in permanent infrastructure--such as new subway lines--makes more sense, in my view, than feel-good measures like ferries. We need solutions that people can actually use, rather than those which please politicians and others posing for photo ops. London has expanded its mass transit tube system with light rail where subways would be inappropriate or too onerous, and Paris's RER system is a marvel of efficiency and design. Yet I certainly understand the hesitance to make these sorts of forward-thinking improvements (although they are completely necessary). The lack of accountability for the surreal overruns and delays experienced in building the new transportation hub at the WTC give us reason enough to suspect that nothing can be done in the City in a responsible and cost-effective manner. Ferry transportation is extremely expensive (even given the low cost of energy at this time), fairly labor-intensive and it doesn't really hook into other systems efficiently. It also feels like a luxurious, languorous idea for a City where millions actually have to be somewhere other than at pretty terminals in clement weather.
5
I love taking the Staten Island Ferry both ways, purely for the views, toasting the city with a glass of wine conveniently bought at the bar. I take every visitor there if I can, and tell the others to do it. Often, they get excited, get off on Staten Island, drop some cash, come back, and love the city that much more. I love boats, ships, and would love this to work out.
THAT SAID: I want the developers dontate BIG TIME TO THIS VENTURE!!! Hold their Richie Rich feet to the fire. Go to your local representatives, get the embers going!
THAT SAID: I want the developers dontate BIG TIME TO THIS VENTURE!!! Hold their Richie Rich feet to the fire. Go to your local representatives, get the embers going!
94
Holding property developers feet to fire is never going to happen. I live in Long Island City and my NYC Councilman does whatever the developers desire irrespective of its impact on the residents, in exchange for all the developers HUGE re-election campaign contributions. Check out the NYC Campaign Finance website and Jimmy Van Brammer's account.
4
Washington State's ferry system has been a subsidized money-loser for decades, but they're not primarily commuter carriers. Hopefully NYC's rider and cost projections are accurate, because the bottom line is boats can never be cheaper than trains. The "hole in the water you pour money into" adage isn't just for yachties.
10
Where's the ferry deBlasio proposed a year or so ago to connect to Staten Island at Stapleton? Why isn't it part of this plan? Did the idea get dropped?
4
Is the Bronx left out again?
12
And none on the entire west side of Manhattan. Gee, thanks.
6
The west side of Manhattan faces nj, the east side faces Brooklyn and queens.
8
I may be nuts, but I like it.
8
p.s. anticipating waterworld - and or else ummm - as many escape routes as possible from other agencies -
4
A pure election related gimmick. The idea that the ferry will not require huge subsidies from the city is not realistic. At some point, those who bought into the outer borough fantasy have to pay the price for their dreams. This is purely a subsidy to Brooklyn waterfront developers. He needs them after he stuck it to NY Class. They won't be fooled again.
55
This will be a godsend for all those desolate souls who have bought luxury condos along the waterfront and then realized they were cut off from public transportation. And while we're at it, let's give them a streetcar system and save these threadbare folks some money by charging them the same as a subway ride, with none of the muss or fuss the plebes must endure. The Mayor's flacks, parroting developer talking points, will be sure to mention the public housing occupants whom these services will benefit - yeah right - and let's not forget the family farmers!
109
Funny that you think people who purchase/rent multi-million dollar luxury condos along the waterfront use public transportation as opposed to taxis or their own vehicles. (They don't.)
Your point does bring up interesting questions, though:
- Where exactly will these docks be located?
- How will people far from the water get to them cheaply and quickly?
- How many people will choose new ferries over existing subways?
I think using the waterways is a smart idea because it's a significantly smaller, faster, and easier investment than expanding subways. Implementing this system within a reasonable time-frame is actually realistic. It's also a creative way to extract value from space that is currently underutilized.
But that doesn't mean people will use ferries.
As with most public endeavors, the devil will be in the details.
Your point does bring up interesting questions, though:
- Where exactly will these docks be located?
- How will people far from the water get to them cheaply and quickly?
- How many people will choose new ferries over existing subways?
I think using the waterways is a smart idea because it's a significantly smaller, faster, and easier investment than expanding subways. Implementing this system within a reasonable time-frame is actually realistic. It's also a creative way to extract value from space that is currently underutilized.
But that doesn't mean people will use ferries.
As with most public endeavors, the devil will be in the details.
6
This is an extraordinary amount of money to invest in a form of "mass transit" that will have a dubious impact on the overcrowded subway system. Politicians like ferries because of the upfront costs appear minimal as compared to building subways. However, even at capacity, ferries simply hold far fewer riders than the 22 ten-car trains that can run during rush hour. Moreover, ferries pick people up and drop them off far from homes and offices, so the vast majority of riders will need to take a multi-seat ride or walk considerable distances to get from home to work.
In short rather than invest the billions in high-capacity infrastructure, de Blasio is willing to throwaway $325 million annually into the future. It is penny-wise, pound-foolish in the extreme.
In short rather than invest the billions in high-capacity infrastructure, de Blasio is willing to throwaway $325 million annually into the future. It is penny-wise, pound-foolish in the extreme.
137
Not necessarily...the waterfront along the East River is rapidly developing.
4
All true.
But re-election time is soon approaching.
And this makes a BIG splash for many people (including deBlaz), especially for those who live and work along the East River. It will also enable deBlaz to get positive media coverage for his paltry few affordable apartments in the new riverfront developments.
Unfortunately these same people will not care if there is no there, there.
Wake up, look around you, we now live in a new New York, where more is less.
But re-election time is soon approaching.
And this makes a BIG splash for many people (including deBlaz), especially for those who live and work along the East River. It will also enable deBlaz to get positive media coverage for his paltry few affordable apartments in the new riverfront developments.
Unfortunately these same people will not care if there is no there, there.
Wake up, look around you, we now live in a new New York, where more is less.
1
It is possible to construct and run ferries at a significantly lower cost than subways. And unlike a subway, the ferry can be easily rerouted, stations built for next to nothing, and in a worst case scenario the assets can be somewhat more easily disposed of than a used subway car.
That said, I think the mayor is being too ambitious for an unproven transportation link. Start off in small but critical places. Lease ferries from established companies with a set fare and subsidy schedule (lets be honest, everything's gonna get subsidized by taxpayers). If it works, expand it. If it doesn't, cut your losses and move on.
That said, I think the mayor is being too ambitious for an unproven transportation link. Start off in small but critical places. Lease ferries from established companies with a set fare and subsidy schedule (lets be honest, everything's gonna get subsidized by taxpayers). If it works, expand it. If it doesn't, cut your losses and move on.
2
I have been underwhelmed by this administration when it comes to transportation. I mean really a streetcar that skirts a block or two from subways. But this has merit, it doesn't take up street space, is very flexible and can serve communities with very poor transport options. The only worry is will it become a white elephant paid for by everyone, while few benefit.
It's hard to tell from the map but north south routes along Manhattan would be great as well as crossings.
It's hard to tell from the map but north south routes along Manhattan would be great as well as crossings.
32
This is a great idea, and yes, build big! We need more transit options to get from the outer boroughs to the city, since many of the current options are at or above capacity. Obviously ferries don't work for those of us who are far inland, but taking some load off the subways is beneficial to all. I'd love to see the ferry maps, hopefully they overlays nicely with the planned Brooklyn Queens Connector.
Also, I'm a political animal like everyone else, but must every article obsess with election timing? Can't we start out with if this is a good policy idea or not, and wait on the electoral significance until we get closer to the election?
Let's also make sure these ferries are built in the USA!
Also, I'm a political animal like everyone else, but must every article obsess with election timing? Can't we start out with if this is a good policy idea or not, and wait on the electoral significance until we get closer to the election?
Let's also make sure these ferries are built in the USA!
54
After all these years of $0.00 fares on the staten island ferry, we all are going to have to pay a few dollars a trip? It seems to me new york city has quite enough other ways to get money rather than on the backs of us poor commuters.
4
No subways will be harmed in the process.
5
Making the SIF free was kind of stupid in a cash-strapped city. Charge a metrocard swipe or transfer, add an extra transfer from SIR=>Ferry=>Subway so people aren't paying two fares for one trip but it would still have significantly added to the MTA's fare income.
4
FINALLY ... A bold move towards addressing the side-effects of NYC's top-notch job-creating success. We need to move far beyond the 'poverty consciousness' governing mass transit here.
This seems like a very promising start.
This seems like a very promising start.
9
He loves spending the taxpayers money! Can't wait to get rid of this idiot.......
27
Has he ever spent time going over the city's budget? Budget? What's a budget?
2
I've lived in this city my whole life, and I feel This is the smartest plan I've heard put forth from any level of govt in NYC or NYS
And the fairness aspect is what DeBlasio is all about. I wish it was up and running right now!
It also begins to get us away from polluting cars trucks and buses
And the fairness aspect is what DeBlasio is all about. I wish it was up and running right now!
It also begins to get us away from polluting cars trucks and buses
52
I use the New York Waterway ferry system on a regular basis. It is a great way to get around, if you live near one of the ports. I am all for the expansion of ferry service, but it has to be well connected to transit options that allow passengers to complete their trips. For example, people should be able to easily catch a SelectBus to go across town.
As much as I like the ferry idea, this cannot be at the expense of expanding rail services. Sure, that is expensive, but it is necessary for New York to remain a growing, competitive, and dynamic city. I often hear how it cannot be done for all kinds of reasons — high labor costs, unions, lack of money, difficulty building in a dense urban environment, etc. But the fact remains that Spain, France, China, and many other countries have rapidly expanded their rail systems in the last decade while facing many of these same challenges. We should be able to do it here.
As much as I like the ferry idea, this cannot be at the expense of expanding rail services. Sure, that is expensive, but it is necessary for New York to remain a growing, competitive, and dynamic city. I often hear how it cannot be done for all kinds of reasons — high labor costs, unions, lack of money, difficulty building in a dense urban environment, etc. But the fact remains that Spain, France, China, and many other countries have rapidly expanded their rail systems in the last decade while facing many of these same challenges. We should be able to do it here.
121
Yes, what disappoints me about de Blasio's transportation policy is a failure to think big about heavy rail (subway) expansion in the outer boroughs. Specifically, priority should be placed on extending a subway down Utica Ave in Brooklyn, extending subways from downtown Jamaica to southeastern Queens, extending the F train to the Nassau County line (LIJ Hospital), and extending the 6 train to Coop City in the Bronx. A serious feasibility and engineering study should be made for the proposed subway line connecting the Bronx to Queens and Brooklyn.
5
The key sentence being "if you live near the ports".
Pretty much all the stops in the East River Ferry are far from the subway. I love the idea of more ferries, but I don't see how they will transport 4 million people a year as the mayor claims without more investments to get people to the terminals.
Subway should be the priority.
Pretty much all the stops in the East River Ferry are far from the subway. I love the idea of more ferries, but I don't see how they will transport 4 million people a year as the mayor claims without more investments to get people to the terminals.
Subway should be the priority.
2
What no one seems to acknowledge is the fact that the rail system is controlled by Cuomo - putting City money into the MTA just gives Cuomo more to play with - and probably not to the benefit of the city.
Another give-away to real estate developers and tourists.
14
A giveaway to tourists? You mean the people who are pumping billions of dollars annually into our economy? That's a little like calling schools a giveaway to children.
10
Not many tourists go to Soundview, Bay Ridge, Rockaway, or Red Hook. Those are working class/middle class destinations.
1
Options that help alleviate the overcrowded subways are good. Unless you live close to the water getting to the ferry would a problem for most people.
8
Can't we have a more detailed description or map of the proposed routes as depicted on the chart in the photo (which isn't very clear)?
69
After the Election the fare increases
8
This might just make Mr. De Blasio reelected!
4
The are very few reasons to have them and many more not to.
A ferry can take you from one point near the water to another point near the water.
Unless you are coming or going from those points you need a way to get to the point on your jouncy from where you started to where you are going to,
This means taking a train to the ferry and taking another train to get where you are going.
How does this make any sense.
There is one good reason to have a ferry.
I did some research in 1974.
Using Ferries only made sense to get to places you either could not get to by using some other means of transport or because the trip will take less time.
Going from Manhattan to downtown Brooklyn fails both.
Going from Manhattan to Long Island.
There are no trains that take you directly from Manhattan to Long Island and even if there was a train you have to stop on the way to your final destination which the ferry would not have to do and therefore the trip would take less time.
This is the only situation where the use of a ferry can be justified.
So unless you are going between Manhattan to places like Long Island or Connecticut ferries serve has no purpose and there is no reason to have them.