hoping the FBI doesn't believe his father's innocence i.e. his history shows otherwise
14
It chills me to write this, but I was thinking the other day that several months had passed since our last public massacre, that we were surely "due" for another. Even more chilling, I suspect many other Americans were thinking the very same thing.
13
Only in a hypothetical 'Hell', or in an 'Alice in Wonderland Fiction'
exists a reality where anyone who is on a no fly list, can buy any gun he wants. I would even compromise with the GOP to save some lives,
this person could just not buy weapons that are automatic.
Why do we compromise with the GOP/gun lobby.
Get out an vote every two years. Your child's life may depend on it
exists a reality where anyone who is on a no fly list, can buy any gun he wants. I would even compromise with the GOP to save some lives,
this person could just not buy weapons that are automatic.
Why do we compromise with the GOP/gun lobby.
Get out an vote every two years. Your child's life may depend on it
28
There's no reason anyone should be allowed to buy/own any of these weapons.
JGAIA-
JGAIA-
39
It's past time to recognize that people like Omar Mateen are simply criminals, mass murderers, nothing more. To see his crimes as somehow an expression of religious belief is to dignify his actions as being part of something larger. From Mateen's history it is apparent that he was an abusive sadistic man who had no respect for human life or worth. His claim to embrace radical Islam should be seen for what it is — a hollow rationalization for an evil erupting from his own private hellhole. What he did has nothing to do with Islam, and giving his "explanation" any weight at all is to descend into his delusion with him and give ISIS license to expand their reach.
It doesn't matter why someone kills 49 people, It's a horrible crime, period. If a common murderer tried to explain his killing as justified because the victim refused to move his car, we would dismiss it as absurd. Why should we even listen to his justifications at all? Much less allow ISIS to use them as some vindication of their agenda?
This mistake began immediately after 9/11 when the "war on terror" was declared, framing the issue as a battle between two cultures. From the beginning these acts should have been recognized as international crimes, nothing more or less. They are not battles between two armies, they are crimes against humanity. In a war, both sides have competing agendas and interests. A criminal has no standing at all, he is to be hunted, captured and tried for his actions.
It doesn't matter why someone kills 49 people, It's a horrible crime, period. If a common murderer tried to explain his killing as justified because the victim refused to move his car, we would dismiss it as absurd. Why should we even listen to his justifications at all? Much less allow ISIS to use them as some vindication of their agenda?
This mistake began immediately after 9/11 when the "war on terror" was declared, framing the issue as a battle between two cultures. From the beginning these acts should have been recognized as international crimes, nothing more or less. They are not battles between two armies, they are crimes against humanity. In a war, both sides have competing agendas and interests. A criminal has no standing at all, he is to be hunted, captured and tried for his actions.
44
At least now this murderer can no longer buy an assault rifle.
Apparently it takes a mass shooting to prevent someone from obtaining a weapon with no other purpose that to slaughter people by the dozens.
How soon before the gun supporters turn their weapons on us as well?
Apparently it takes a mass shooting to prevent someone from obtaining a weapon with no other purpose that to slaughter people by the dozens.
How soon before the gun supporters turn their weapons on us as well?
16
It's good to see Turmp respond this way, actually. He's providing a concrete example of how naively he will respond to similar crisis if elected president.
He has a crazy ability to scapegoat wide swaths of populace to endear himself with meanly held prejudices and hatreds. His convulsive public policy proposals provide reason enough to never trust him with the power of the pen that could veto congressional intent, merely to gain his own ego driven satisfaction.
Vote Turmp ~ Make America Hate Again
He has a crazy ability to scapegoat wide swaths of populace to endear himself with meanly held prejudices and hatreds. His convulsive public policy proposals provide reason enough to never trust him with the power of the pen that could veto congressional intent, merely to gain his own ego driven satisfaction.
Vote Turmp ~ Make America Hate Again
33
Time once again to reflect on the question:
"He Disavowed Radical Islam. Was He Lying?"
It is the Wrong Question as an Individual adherent's stated position as a point in a Cultural Behavioral Variance does not matter it is the Aggregated Effect of the Cultural Whole that Matters.
Individuals inclusive of the 'Islamic State recruiter seducer' and so called lone-wolves do not make up their own ethics-morals-values-beliefs-motivation nor methodology their culture does, in this case the Islamic/Muslim culture.
Culture enables commonly held 'cultural knowledge/understanding' to enable terror-genocide to occur. It is therefore the wrong question as a view held by individuals at a single point in a cultural behavioral variance simply does not matter it is the aggregated effect of the cultural whole that matters. It should also be realised different cultures in the nature of their development process can and do systemically inform significantly different reactive behavior against 'transgression' and heightened aggressive tendencies towards out-groups.
The question should be:
"The Culture Disavowed Radical Islam. Is the Culture Lying?"
Orlando, Belgium. Syria, Kenya, Philippines, Indonesia, Turkey, London, Boston, Sydney, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Libya, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Mali, ..., Orlando does it?
And if the evidence, not the repeated claims of 'not guilty' determine the answer no, do we allow this Not-Religion paradigm driving policy to continue?
"He Disavowed Radical Islam. Was He Lying?"
It is the Wrong Question as an Individual adherent's stated position as a point in a Cultural Behavioral Variance does not matter it is the Aggregated Effect of the Cultural Whole that Matters.
Individuals inclusive of the 'Islamic State recruiter seducer' and so called lone-wolves do not make up their own ethics-morals-values-beliefs-motivation nor methodology their culture does, in this case the Islamic/Muslim culture.
Culture enables commonly held 'cultural knowledge/understanding' to enable terror-genocide to occur. It is therefore the wrong question as a view held by individuals at a single point in a cultural behavioral variance simply does not matter it is the aggregated effect of the cultural whole that matters. It should also be realised different cultures in the nature of their development process can and do systemically inform significantly different reactive behavior against 'transgression' and heightened aggressive tendencies towards out-groups.
The question should be:
"The Culture Disavowed Radical Islam. Is the Culture Lying?"
Orlando, Belgium. Syria, Kenya, Philippines, Indonesia, Turkey, London, Boston, Sydney, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Libya, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Mali, ..., Orlando does it?
And if the evidence, not the repeated claims of 'not guilty' determine the answer no, do we allow this Not-Religion paradigm driving policy to continue?
8
Hillary claims "if you're being investigated by the FBI (for terrorist ties) you shouldn't be able to just go buy a gun".
OK Hillary, are you gonna back that up? Are you going to hold the FBI accountable for this colossal failure to protect American security?
Do you still believe cops will keep Americans safe? That we don't need our Second Amendment rights to self protection ?
What do you have to say, Hillary?
OK Hillary, are you gonna back that up? Are you going to hold the FBI accountable for this colossal failure to protect American security?
Do you still believe cops will keep Americans safe? That we don't need our Second Amendment rights to self protection ?
What do you have to say, Hillary?
8
She's probably not reading these comments.
32
Here's a thought why not make guns with GPS tracking like cell phones cars and ankle bracelets for criminals just a thought
12
OK how about some baby steps. How about let's start with NOT allowing anyone with this guys history to buy an assault weapon. Just an idea.....
And if you REALLY need an assault weapon, then you should prove that you have the training and an actual need for such a weapon (whatever on Earth that might be).
And if you REALLY need an assault weapon, then you should prove that you have the training and an actual need for such a weapon (whatever on Earth that might be).
21
I really would hope our world would act more civilized to one another. But one item being reported in the news is completely false.
This was far from the worst mass-murder in the USA. In recent history yes.
But our US government troops slaughtered more indians by far, in some cases 3X this many in one or more incidents. see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Massacre as an example.
This was far from the worst mass-murder in the USA. In recent history yes.
But our US government troops slaughtered more indians by far, in some cases 3X this many in one or more incidents. see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Massacre as an example.
9
Gun control is not implementable in a short term, while targeting Muslim immigration becomes more about treating symptoms, not the cause. We need an open mind to tackle such threats which begins with an acknowledgement that no solution is available at present.
Human nature it is said can not bear too much of reality; we need to enhance those limits first. The real answer, for this complex issue would involve several measures; including ones which provide a healing touch and others which lead to stronger policing and surgical strikes.
Human nature it is said can not bear too much of reality; we need to enhance those limits first. The real answer, for this complex issue would involve several measures; including ones which provide a healing touch and others which lead to stronger policing and surgical strikes.
3
Prayers and love messages are useless. Better gun control and eradication of radical Islam on the other hand are not!
5
Just learned that apparently Mateen was a regular at the club. And he had his profile up on a gay website.
10
A "nobody" with a gun walks into a nightclub or school or a movie theater and kills people he doesn't know. Within hours, the whole world knows his name and sees his face. We soon learn his dismal bio. We don't remember the names and faces of his victims, but we remember the days and weeks of obsessive media coverage. The "nobody" is awarded instant celebrity and becomes a historical figure.
His evil is news, of course. The murder of one-hundred innocents cannot be hidden, nor should it. The tragic event must be reported.
But there is no requirement to identify him by name or make his image public. We do, though. Our media and media culture makes the "nobody" a star -- every time -- with hours upon hours of promotion disguised as journalism. Who will be the next "American Evil?"
Not only is there no requirement to indulge these deranged, evil "nobodies" to the point of fetish, but good reasons to leave them forever unidentified and invisible.
His evil is news, of course. The murder of one-hundred innocents cannot be hidden, nor should it. The tragic event must be reported.
But there is no requirement to identify him by name or make his image public. We do, though. Our media and media culture makes the "nobody" a star -- every time -- with hours upon hours of promotion disguised as journalism. Who will be the next "American Evil?"
Not only is there no requirement to indulge these deranged, evil "nobodies" to the point of fetish, but good reasons to leave them forever unidentified and invisible.
17
They say a good guy with a gun beats a bad guy every time. Trump says if someone in the club had a gun they could have stopped it. Well there were plenty of "good guys" outside. They're called the Police.
Why'd it take them three hours to go in?
Why'd it take them three hours to go in?
8
Governor Scott seeks bagsful from the United States Government, which he wants to drown in a bathtub. Why? Where would he obtain his bags if his scheme works, if the electorate he relies upon, takes away the bags? Would he get joy losing his basis for political existence?
3
I appreciate NYT publishing the photos of the Orlando victims. I wish that it published the pictures of Newtown children who were killed.
How can any sensible NRA member look at each of these pictures and yet hold on to their guns ? Only an equally sick person can.
How can any sensible NRA member look at each of these pictures and yet hold on to their guns ? Only an equally sick person can.
9
Hey, our politicians. The blood is on your hands, again.
10
Yesterday it crossed my mind that the guy was a closet gay himself. MSNBC just showed a guy from Orlando who says he and his friends have seen Mateen's pictures and posts on Grindr.
One can say his numerous visits to Pulse was just to plan his attack, but what was he doing on Grindr?
This reminds us of another murderous bipolar maniac who killed millions he considered 'subhuman non-Aryans', and we later learned he himself was not an Aryan.
One can say his numerous visits to Pulse was just to plan his attack, but what was he doing on Grindr?
This reminds us of another murderous bipolar maniac who killed millions he considered 'subhuman non-Aryans', and we later learned he himself was not an Aryan.
8
The thought crossed my mind too, and I think a lot of other people. But the FBI and some media outlets seem to be avoiding the likely possibility that internalized homophobia was the main motivating factor here - according to the LA Times, the FBI has had the phone of the person who used to communicate with Mateen on the gap app Jack'd since the shooting, yet when the FBI Director went before the media today he said not a word about it.
And some media outlets seem reluctant to report this information, from what I can see neither the Washington Post or the NYT have covered it.
And some media outlets seem reluctant to report this information, from what I can see neither the Washington Post or the NYT have covered it.
5
Was there an off-study police officer doing security at the club? If so, what happened to him/her?
2
Someone was in the back hallway and was said to have exposed himself to fire to open a door letting more than 60 escape, but he's just now coming to grips with the number dead.
2
1) I am really curious as to how the shooter's parents were admitted into the U.S. and allowed to become U.S. citizens. The father is clearly a nut job;
2) The F.B.I. dropped the ball again. They knew that the shooter physically abused his ex-wife and she described him as mentally unstable. He washed out of law enforcement training. In FBI interviews, he admitted making threats about killing people because he said they were discriminating against him for being a Muslim. Hello......
3) But it's not jut the F.B.I. It's the Republican Congress that refuses to keep assault weapons out of the hands of crazy and dangerous people. Then they have the audacity to hold a moment of silence after each tragedy. Vote them out!
2) The F.B.I. dropped the ball again. They knew that the shooter physically abused his ex-wife and she described him as mentally unstable. He washed out of law enforcement training. In FBI interviews, he admitted making threats about killing people because he said they were discriminating against him for being a Muslim. Hello......
3) But it's not jut the F.B.I. It's the Republican Congress that refuses to keep assault weapons out of the hands of crazy and dangerous people. Then they have the audacity to hold a moment of silence after each tragedy. Vote them out!
8
The owner of the Pulse Nightclub should now donate his property to the City of Orlando or State of Florida for memorial tribute to the 103+ victims of the shooting. Please write Gov. Scott of FL and the City of Orlando City Council.
Like the 911 attack in NY, the victims in Orlando also need a memorial.
Like the 911 attack in NY, the victims in Orlando also need a memorial.
4
Sure. Just as soon as you donate all your assets and income. You go first.
15
If the slaughter of nearly 2 dozen children was not enough to convince GOP legislators to restrict gun access and impose mandatory training, registration and universal background checks, the death of twice as many gay Latinos certainly won't.
20
It's time that we stand up to all the men with "little hands" that need their guns to feel "whole" and say enough!
In my opinion we need to ban:
1. Open carry
2. Greater than 10 bullet clips
3. Assault style semi-automatic weapons
We need to require:
1. Smart guns
2. Automatic safeties
3. Tracking of guns and transfers regardless of who is selling
In my opinion we need to ban:
1. Open carry
2. Greater than 10 bullet clips
3. Assault style semi-automatic weapons
We need to require:
1. Smart guns
2. Automatic safeties
3. Tracking of guns and transfers regardless of who is selling
13
According to fbi statistics, rifles (which would include assault rifles) accounted for 248 murders in 2014 but knives accounted for 1959 murders.
4
All of us should begin to get used to this, this is not going away, this is the new American way of life. It just is.
It was inevitable.
It was inevitable.
5
It doesn't have to be this way, see Australia.
It comes down to how thuggy we want to continue to be, because right now, we got Americans advising Americans to kill one another just for the Trump of it.
It comes down to how thuggy we want to continue to be, because right now, we got Americans advising Americans to kill one another just for the Trump of it.
8
I don't think the news warranted the huge font in the Times' headline. Yes, a smaller headline before the fold on the front page, but not such a screamer. It just glorifies the perp.
Also the mainstream media is not correct when it reports this is the biggest mass murder in US history. Just ask any Native American...Wounded Knee was six times worse with 300 murdered.
Brian in Brooklyn
Also the mainstream media is not correct when it reports this is the biggest mass murder in US history. Just ask any Native American...Wounded Knee was six times worse with 300 murdered.
Brian in Brooklyn
16
If Trump had his way he'd go after the parents of the shooter. In this case he might be justified. The apple certainly didn't fall far from that tree.
10
Reminds me of King Lear, approx. "no serpent's tooth as sharp as the sting of a thankless child." Having 2 daughters, 1 less than he did, I know what he meant. Leave the parents alone, imagine the burning shame they feel, as Sue Klebold made clear in her new book, "A Mother's Reckoning." Adam Lanza's mother will not being writing any such books.
"We have to talk about Kevin," Tilda Swinton said. Do not postpone it.
"We have to talk about Kevin," Tilda Swinton said. Do not postpone it.
4
Is this our Kristallnacht? I cannot think beyond this question. When will someone come for me?
9
The FBI completely failed in doing their job. This guy has been investigated by the FBI twice, both in 2013 and 2014, and has been known to abuse his wife. For these reasons alone, he should have been permanently placed in a terrorist watch list and be completely banned from purchasing firearms. He slip through the cracks, and as a result, purchased an AR-15 and a handgun and massacre innocent people. If there is any blood on someone's hands for this onslaught, I blame the NRA, the FBI, and the Republican Party that always turn a blind-eye to these horrific tragedies and whose members only offer their meaningless condolences instead of action, like passing stricter gun control policies that could have prevented a madman from killing other people. It's pretty obvious the GOP is corrupt and greedy party, only obeying the NRA by not passing stricter gun control reform bills. It's truly despicable that we are in the year 2016, and yet still, horrific mass shootings continues to happen.
11
Far as we know, the FBI did fine. Certainly much better than Trump and the Trumpettes.
3
The gunman held people captive for 3 hours? Question, why weren't federal authorities called in, and early? Would some loss of life have been prevented had they been able to assist?
Is there a protocol for when to call in the feds? If not, maybe there should be one.
Is there a protocol for when to call in the feds? If not, maybe there should be one.
8
They didn't release all the information yet. The timeline is indeed strange, I noticed this already from the beginning.
49 people killed by one gunman, more then 100 people shot! Very strange. The other attacks were executed by two gunmen or like in Paris, more then that.
They indicated that there was a firefight inside the building and at the end, the gunman was forced to retreat into a bathroom. Then he seem to have negotiated with the authorities and as an afterthought he declared his love to ISIS.
49 people killed by one gunman, more then 100 people shot! Very strange. The other attacks were executed by two gunmen or like in Paris, more then that.
They indicated that there was a firefight inside the building and at the end, the gunman was forced to retreat into a bathroom. Then he seem to have negotiated with the authorities and as an afterthought he declared his love to ISIS.
From now on, the mere possession of a military style assault weapon should be construed as criminal intent.
21
Yes. Good idea !
3
And that would accomplish what, exactly? Intent by itself is of no consequence. And in this instance, the shooter is dead, and his intent was obvious. Unless there are plans to put this and every other dead shooter's dead body on trial, what is the point?
1
Fbi stats show in 2014; 248 murders by rifles ( which would include assault rifles) but 1959 by knives and 770 by 'personal weapons'- feet and fists. Should mere possession of a foot or a hand be construed as criminal intent?
6
Based on other media reports, the guy was bipolar, in addition to being a homophobe and a bigot. He apparently had previously expressed allegiance to Hizbollah as well as ISIS, which obviously makes no sense to a logical person as the 2 groups have been fighting each other for 5 years now.
One would think at least security firms would have experience in screening people for psychological problems, as well as their online activities. Apparently, G4S, the largest security firm in the world did not.
As for our failures, the rules should change in such a way that once you are on a terrorist list, if you purchase weapons even after your name is removed, the vendor should still be required to report it to the FBI.
One would think at least security firms would have experience in screening people for psychological problems, as well as their online activities. Apparently, G4S, the largest security firm in the world did not.
As for our failures, the rules should change in such a way that once you are on a terrorist list, if you purchase weapons even after your name is removed, the vendor should still be required to report it to the FBI.
10
Hate is like a weed that can spread through any community and plant itself in the hearts of those who are afraid, disillusioned or unstable. Hate is hate no matter who is feeling it, or acting on it, be he Muslim, Christian or Jew. Leaders can sow hatred by exploiting our fears, our disappointments, and our aspirations for national or religious supremacy when we feel we have fallen behind. (As ISIS does). Hate likes to scapegoat those who are different, and hate dehumanizes the "other." We are at war with hate as much as we are at war with ISIS, and we have to be careful not be too narrow in our vision of the matter, otherwise we will stop looking deeply at ourselves and see that the roots of homophobia, racial injustice, fear of feminine power, and religious intolerance lie within us as well. Just look around. And listen to who's talking.
6
No, but it might have flagged him when he went to get a gun. Too many times perpetrators are not reported. In this case she describes him as mentally ill. This description by her along with violence might have raised some alarms. Not to mention there is no doubt many others, such as his parents, probably witnessed disturbing behavior that went unaddressed.
1
This has been said by many, but not understood by many more: if you ban people from 10-20 countries from entering the US, terrorists will just find other nationals who can enter.... we need a serious critical thinker as a President.
5
It's clear that banning people from certain countries is nothing new and the US is doing this already partly. Getting a visa to the US from lets say Iraq is much harder then from a western European country.
In the past, the US did this repeatedly by banning gays, Chinese, Russians, criminals, idiots, homeless, etc. from coming to the US. That was around 1900 and right before the first Word War. What Mr. Trump is yelling about is nothing new and the responses of everyone proofs ignorance of their own (or US) history.
That said, it's for me unclear what he exactly means.
Does he mean coming or immigrating into the US. If he means only immigrating, I would say that's healthy (for the current situation) and logical.
If he means blocking entrance to the country, that's foolish and not logical.
In the past, the US did this repeatedly by banning gays, Chinese, Russians, criminals, idiots, homeless, etc. from coming to the US. That was around 1900 and right before the first Word War. What Mr. Trump is yelling about is nothing new and the responses of everyone proofs ignorance of their own (or US) history.
That said, it's for me unclear what he exactly means.
Does he mean coming or immigrating into the US. If he means only immigrating, I would say that's healthy (for the current situation) and logical.
If he means blocking entrance to the country, that's foolish and not logical.
5
Everyone, understandably, wants to blame something for the attack. Although more than just these two factors could possibly be considered, it seems the overwhelming majority are blaming either radical Islamic terrorism, gun laws, or a combination of the two. The third option, however, represents the correct outlook. No horrendous act, or even any act at all, is caused by just one factor. Some factors might pull stronger than others, but it remains true that all of the factors involved contribute to an action. Both radical Islamic terrorism and lax gun laws contributed to this crime. If either one of them had been altered, it likely would have stopped the crime. If the gunman hadn't radicalized himself but gun laws remained lax, this probably would not have happened. If the gunman had still been a terrorist at heart but there were more effective ways to prevent terrorists from purchasing guns so easily, this event also might not have happened.
Instead of arguing as to which one of these is the cause and arguing that guns should continue to so widely available because "guns don't pull the trigger" or that "everything would be fixed with stronger gun control," we need to focus on seeing the full scope of the ways a person like this could be stopped. No method or methods of prevention can guarantee that something like this won't happen, but they can mitigate the factors at play. And we owe it to American citizens to make something like this as unlikely as we possibly can.
Instead of arguing as to which one of these is the cause and arguing that guns should continue to so widely available because "guns don't pull the trigger" or that "everything would be fixed with stronger gun control," we need to focus on seeing the full scope of the ways a person like this could be stopped. No method or methods of prevention can guarantee that something like this won't happen, but they can mitigate the factors at play. And we owe it to American citizens to make something like this as unlikely as we possibly can.
5
I don't disagree with your post, but it might be useful if we distinguish between motive and opportunity.
How on earth can a guy who beats his wife and was investigated for 10 months by the FBI as a terrorist buy not only an AR-15 but over 200 rounds of ammo and enough high capacity clips to hold it without anyone thinking "this might be trouble?"
I get the 2nd amendment is an important guarantee of all our freedoms, but there has to be some sort of limits placed to protect the public.
The NRA absolutists like to go on about their duty to prevent "tyranny". But if tyranny is defined as "cruel, unreasonable, or arbitrary use of power or control" can anyone deny that fur the duration of his rampage this mad man was the perfect tyrant? When will the NRA take responsibility for their role in creating this monster?
I get the 2nd amendment is an important guarantee of all our freedoms, but there has to be some sort of limits placed to protect the public.
The NRA absolutists like to go on about their duty to prevent "tyranny". But if tyranny is defined as "cruel, unreasonable, or arbitrary use of power or control" can anyone deny that fur the duration of his rampage this mad man was the perfect tyrant? When will the NRA take responsibility for their role in creating this monster?
20
It sounds to me like the guy gave the FBI everything but the time and date of his proposed attack. And he was allowed to purchase firearms legally?
Meanwhile, WE'RE taking our shoes off at the airport to prove we're not terrorists?
Meanwhile, WE'RE taking our shoes off at the airport to prove we're not terrorists?
21
Don't worry just follow the French model - a nearly outright ban on guns of most kinds. Things like this don't happen there right?
10
True, however, while these things happen, in America 30,000 of their own citizens are killed every year by guns. I doubt if the French total comes anywhere close to that number.
10
Yes, actually, shootings in France are rare. Shootings involving French firearms are even more rare.
5
Not 100%
If you compare the statistics with that of the US and France, there is relatively more killings in France then in the US (percentage wise).
If you make the list and calculate the death by gun violence and compare it with suicide, suicide wins this easily. If you listen to those politicians 'interpreting' those stats, please think further, because they don't tell the total picture. They try to manipulate you by 'speaking a truth', which is taken out of context. Those same stats proofs how much of a failure the current President and his administration are.
Introducing popular laws and measures are nice, but the people must realize that the price tag is the National Depth. When Obama wants to do something about the gun laws and possessing a gun by American citizens, it's the same as carrying a bucket of water to the sea. What the President does is an additional law and new rules and loads of money wasted, which can't be enforced and implemented without any good result. There are already too many guns in the United States.
If you compare the statistics with that of the US and France, there is relatively more killings in France then in the US (percentage wise).
If you make the list and calculate the death by gun violence and compare it with suicide, suicide wins this easily. If you listen to those politicians 'interpreting' those stats, please think further, because they don't tell the total picture. They try to manipulate you by 'speaking a truth', which is taken out of context. Those same stats proofs how much of a failure the current President and his administration are.
Introducing popular laws and measures are nice, but the people must realize that the price tag is the National Depth. When Obama wants to do something about the gun laws and possessing a gun by American citizens, it's the same as carrying a bucket of water to the sea. What the President does is an additional law and new rules and loads of money wasted, which can't be enforced and implemented without any good result. There are already too many guns in the United States.
4
Probably been said but this is not an act of terrorism. This is a hate crime. Hate and guns. What a lovely marriage it is.
14
I had hoped for a good while that even ISIS would not associate with this fellow. Apparently they are claiming this act for their own. It may be that there are multiple strands of hate involved.
1
Here's what neither candidate said, but should have. There are 11 countries in the world that execute gay people just because they are gay. Starting tomorrow, no one from any of those 11 countries will be allowed to enter the United States. No one. Not diplomats, not businessmen, not politicians. If your country persists in murdering innocents, we will have nothing to do with you. You are banned.
Why would neither candidate say this? Why won't Obama show some real leadership and say this? Why do we "go along" with barbarity in the 21st century?
Let's be serious, for a change.
Why would neither candidate say this? Why won't Obama show some real leadership and say this? Why do we "go along" with barbarity in the 21st century?
Let's be serious, for a change.
15
Because that would be a really reactionary and stupid thing to say, and basically make it impossible to conduct diplomacy.
7
Australia banned guns, the gun homicide rate went down, but the overall homicide rate went up. It's a lot easier to off someone with a knife when you know they aren't carrying a gun.
Then there's this silly attempt to ban AR's...what next, ban pressure cookers like they used in Boston. Then forks, knives and when all of those bans don't work, then what...liberal nonsense.
Then there's this silly attempt to ban AR's...what next, ban pressure cookers like they used in Boston. Then forks, knives and when all of those bans don't work, then what...liberal nonsense.
8
Just like ban knives is nonsense.
If there were 35,000 knife deaths a year, knives would be considered for regulation.
They search at airports. Why not search at bus depots!! Because air travel creates more disruption if people are afraid to fly, so terrorists go after planes and we go through metal detectors there. There are reasons for things despite introducing absurd strawman.
If there were 35,000 knife deaths a year, knives would be considered for regulation.
They search at airports. Why not search at bus depots!! Because air travel creates more disruption if people are afraid to fly, so terrorists go after planes and we go through metal detectors there. There are reasons for things despite introducing absurd strawman.
The murder rate in the USA is four times higher than in Australia. Apparently, the gun ban helps a lot
13
I'm a liberal and totally opposed to banning ARs or anything else. However, I'm for having your purchase reported to the FBI if your name has EVER appeared on a terrorist list, even if later removed.
8
I'll keep saying it until gun fetishists get it. If you want these weapons, so do terrorists and criminals. If you have an arsenal, so do they. You will never be able to match people gun for gun, because you will always be on the defensive. All that will come is more death. You are ruining the American way of life. You will never be able to control the minds of people who want to do harm. You or a loved one are more likely to be shot not by a criminal but by fellow "responsible" gun owners. So are your children.
Didn't anyone see Wargames? Or live through the 80s? Mutually assured destruction doesn't do anything except mutually assure our destruction. It is completely embarrassing to watch people make the same mistakes over and over again. Gun manufacturers don't care about your "freedom." You are giving up your hard-earned money to people who would toss you out with the spent ammunition of their long con.
Didn't anyone see Wargames? Or live through the 80s? Mutually assured destruction doesn't do anything except mutually assure our destruction. It is completely embarrassing to watch people make the same mistakes over and over again. Gun manufacturers don't care about your "freedom." You are giving up your hard-earned money to people who would toss you out with the spent ammunition of their long con.
13
@AC,
What is with the fetish comment, do you think it makes you sound eloquent? As for gun owners ruining "the American way of life" what does that even mean? The American way of life was founded on freedoms, all freedoms, and yes slavery, but we'll save that for another discussion about our past indiscretions. Terrorism is ruining the worlds way of life, and yet many people in this country refuse to even link the two. But jump on the anti-gun bandwagon? That's just to easy!
What is with the fetish comment, do you think it makes you sound eloquent? As for gun owners ruining "the American way of life" what does that even mean? The American way of life was founded on freedoms, all freedoms, and yes slavery, but we'll save that for another discussion about our past indiscretions. Terrorism is ruining the worlds way of life, and yet many people in this country refuse to even link the two. But jump on the anti-gun bandwagon? That's just to easy!
6
I use the word fetishists because that's what you are. Guns are more important than people. They are an obsession. Research proves that guns are more likely to be used in domestic violence than in a foiled attack. Children die every day, in far greater numbers than that are killed in castle defenses. Women are in great danger from guns because domestic abusers kill them every day.
That gun owners dismiss these facts means that they care more about their own "freedoms" over those of their fellow citizens and even family. That's fine, but you should admit that we are all considered collateral damage.
That gun owners dismiss these facts means that they care more about their own "freedoms" over those of their fellow citizens and even family. That's fine, but you should admit that we are all considered collateral damage.
5
This terrorist was born and raised in the US but Trump's response to it is all about immigration bans. Sorry, but I don't get the connection. Trump's anti-Muslim immigration ideas would not have stopped this. The focus should be on the absurdity of Americans being able to buy assault type weapons. We don't need them to hunt, target practice, or to defend our homes.
The military and police are the only ones who should be allowed such weapons.
The groups supporting the right to own these weapons seem to be mainly far right paranoids such as the posse comitatus types who are waiting for the day when some government comes to take away all their guns and maybe even force them to pay their taxes!
The military and police are the only ones who should be allowed such weapons.
The groups supporting the right to own these weapons seem to be mainly far right paranoids such as the posse comitatus types who are waiting for the day when some government comes to take away all their guns and maybe even force them to pay their taxes!
22
Trump's point is that the parents came here from Afghanistan
4
30-plus years ago, during the Reagan administration!
3
That was Trump's point after he figured out he looked like an idiot, JA.
Why hasn't the Republican Party responded?
10
The audio is the final outcome and symptomatic of the current American situation as a whole. Police brutality was in a scary growing since the year 2013, with increasingly gruesome instances of police killings against even child. Obama could have intervened with loosening policy speech of police tension with the people (after all, every county has its elected sheriff and his complex police system maintained by the municipality) and did not, preferring to let run loose the feeling of impunity, squashed into a little worried justice to the victim and more concerned with who offers armed security against an invisible but very scary enemy .The media, in turn, tired of showing executions of ISIS daily, each more barbarous than the other, creating a sense of fear such that every American has to feel a potential victim of sticking. Finally, the extreme homophobia and extreme police brutality met with the firing more than 330 shots in less than 5 seconds, which shows the unpreparedness of police used to exaggeration .At the same time, the media immediately treated to cover everything. No terrorist body news, there are no photographs of the site, the bodies or anything, just a huge vacuum to leave people even more terrified. It is evident that several bodies riddled with bullets were targeted by police projectiles
Donald Trump's self-congratulatory comments in the wake of this tragedy are a stain on the political process. The GOP needs to end his candidacy now.
20
Please correct me if I'm wrong. The NSA was taping people and hacking into their emails, right? Then what happened -- or didn't? And why is it that indirectly because of Homeland Security, banks scrutinize every new deposit, but HS somehow missed the Times Square would-be bomber, the Boston Bomber, and the Orlando gunman. Please explain.
3
Where is the right person with gun to prevent this incidents , NRA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where are they?
Where are they?
5
Guns weren't allowed in the club.
4
There were up to three armed cops outside. Grow up.
2
I think if ANYONE regardless of their background has shown enough evidence that they might be capable of mass murder, should register with law enforcement, be followed two random days o fhthe week all day and all night, and interviewed once a week. The stakes are too high not to do this, and i am not suggesting it be limited to Muslims. The danger warrants the risk of the loss of privacy after we see one killer after another was previously interviewed by law enforcement
2
My government has banned my shampoo and nail cutters but it doesn't have the spine to ban assault weapons that can spray death over hundreds of people?
I will start asking this question to my elected officials and I suggest you all do the same. It is our civic duty to digitize gun purchases and ban weapons of mass destruction.
Do this lest we find our selves in the middle of the next disaster .
I will start asking this question to my elected officials and I suggest you all do the same. It is our civic duty to digitize gun purchases and ban weapons of mass destruction.
Do this lest we find our selves in the middle of the next disaster .
19
Ask them if they're going to ban gasoline as well since that is the primary mode of massacring people in Syria today... Assault rifle's have nothing to do with this issue. I bet you're not asking them to secure the border but you'll allow them to take my liberties. Thanks but no thanks...
7
" Assault rifle's have nothing to do with this issue."
Considering that high capacity semi-automatic guns have been involved in almost all mass killings your statement is nonsensical.
Regarding your "liberties" - read Scalia's statement in the summary of Heller where he states that the ruling on owning guns is NOT meant to preclude government regulation of the type of guns allowed to be owned and the places where they can be carried .
Considering that high capacity semi-automatic guns have been involved in almost all mass killings your statement is nonsensical.
Regarding your "liberties" - read Scalia's statement in the summary of Heller where he states that the ruling on owning guns is NOT meant to preclude government regulation of the type of guns allowed to be owned and the places where they can be carried .
6
"Mr. Mateen had a chilling history that included talking about killing people, beating his former wife and voicing hatred of minorities, gays and Jews; most of his victims were gay, Latino, or both."
If it proves true that Mr. Mateen was nothing more than a lunatic, racist homophobe who felt entitled by his religious beliefs to commit murder, defeating ISIS will effect nothing to stop these crimes.
If it proves true that Mr. Mateen was nothing more than a lunatic, racist homophobe who felt entitled by his religious beliefs to commit murder, defeating ISIS will effect nothing to stop these crimes.
17
90 people die PER DAY in gun related violence in America.
Yes, other countries have terrorist attacks. But in no advanced society I am aware of do 90 people die of gunshots every single day.
So we can start with that.
Yes, other countries have terrorist attacks. But in no advanced society I am aware of do 90 people die of gunshots every single day.
So we can start with that.
17
I don't think I agree with any other line of reasoning I've heard out of Donald Trump (other than being against NAFTRA and exporting of American jobs - which I think he would do if it meant more profit for his own businesses), what he said the other day about trying to head off a second generation of disaffected Muslim youths being born from the Muslim refugees we accept here in the US - that is something that needs to be addressed. You can see the results of that through much of Europe now. As a liberal American I can't stomach a blanket temporary or long-term ban on Muslim immigration, but on the other hand I won't be able to stomach a Muslim suicide bomber walking into a school and blowing it up either. This could be what we have to sadly look forward to from a group of radicalized people who are disconnected from mainstream American society by customs and a religion which is in many ways incompatible. I just returned from a trip to Toronto and their public radio was discussing the large number of recently arrived battered Muslim women coming to their women's shelters whose husbands physically and mentally abuse them - and the even larger numbers who will never seek shelter from their abusive men.The non-Muslim host was trying to attribute the husbands' behavior to pressures of being a new immigrant. The Muslim women interviewed were setting her straight that this was common practice back home as well; women had no idea until coming to Canada they could possibly escape it.
10
Not having an AR-15 would not have prevented the shooting of the armed security guard at the door. Once inside, a Glock (or any other automatic pistol) will 15 round clips could easily kill just as many people. One shot at the time..just like the AR-15. Certainly the AR was more effective, but once the door was blocked....
Of course,banning Muslims would not have prevented this one any more than many of the others.
Yes..radical religious fanatics...WHATEVER religion...is the primary target.
I would love to see the scorecard of fanatics raised in Christian homes.. who bomb and kill over abortion ..or Waco...or simply because God spoke to them, compared with killings by Muslim fanatics. Just the one on ones..
Of course,banning Muslims would not have prevented this one any more than many of the others.
Yes..radical religious fanatics...WHATEVER religion...is the primary target.
I would love to see the scorecard of fanatics raised in Christian homes.. who bomb and kill over abortion ..or Waco...or simply because God spoke to them, compared with killings by Muslim fanatics. Just the one on ones..
7
I refuse to read anything about the gunman. I don't know his name now, and I don't intend to know it. He doesn't deserve to be remembered in any way. He's just another deranged loser who wreaked havoc and then ended up getting shot to death himself. He did not go out in a "blaze of glory." He just went out. That's the end of him, and good riddance. What is to be gained from reading all about his pathetic, loser life? Perhaps if we sent this message to similar losers, they wouldn't act out hoping to be remembered.
18
@Bob G
God how I wish the rest of America especially the media would follow your way of thinking on this.
That piece of detritus doesn't deserve a millisecond of acknowledgement.
Great post Bob G!
God how I wish the rest of America especially the media would follow your way of thinking on this.
That piece of detritus doesn't deserve a millisecond of acknowledgement.
Great post Bob G!
8
Let's speed up the election, and vote for Trump right now.
All we are going to get out of Obama is regrets, and it was not a Muslim issue. It is a Muslim issue and I don't hear or see them stepping up publicly to denounce it. I'm sick of it and trump is my man.
All we are going to get out of Obama is regrets, and it was not a Muslim issue. It is a Muslim issue and I don't hear or see them stepping up publicly to denounce it. I'm sick of it and trump is my man.
14
Really - the FBI had investigated the Orlando gunman? Fancy That! FBI agents and Homeland Security also investigated the Boston Marathon Bombers. Russia Security also warned the FBI about their suspicions of the Boston Marathon Bombers and their training with terrorists: Something is wrong with this picture.
14
I hear a lot of folks in the media, and in fact there is a separate article posted on the Times website right now, talking about "red flags" doing little to stop people from purchasing firearms. Clearly the intent of such articles is to try and sway public opinion toward restricting folks who the government is investigating or who the government suspects as being dangerous from purchasing firearms...clearly. Permit me to just cut to the chase on that one...this is the point of such opinions/articles.
We don't live in China or the Soviet Union, and we don't have gulags for the suspicious over HERE, and if you think forfeiting your rights will be ONLY in regards to guns, and nothing else, you're dead wrong. We don't live in a country where rights are taken upon suspicion, no proof of any wrongdoing needed. We don't live in that country. Amd thank God for that.
You either follow the law here, or you break the law...there is no guilty until proven innocent over here. And I for one like it that way. That's called a free society. Follow people all you want if you siuspect them. But our rights don't go away with no proof of doing anything wrong. That's the FINAL slippery slope of despotism.
We don't live in China or the Soviet Union, and we don't have gulags for the suspicious over HERE, and if you think forfeiting your rights will be ONLY in regards to guns, and nothing else, you're dead wrong. We don't live in a country where rights are taken upon suspicion, no proof of any wrongdoing needed. We don't live in that country. Amd thank God for that.
You either follow the law here, or you break the law...there is no guilty until proven innocent over here. And I for one like it that way. That's called a free society. Follow people all you want if you siuspect them. But our rights don't go away with no proof of doing anything wrong. That's the FINAL slippery slope of despotism.
8
This latest mass murder is another example of an individual with a pathology using religious veneer to justify the action.
All religions have groups and individuals who abuse the teachings to justify bigotry and violence.
Some nations' governments allow these groups of fanatics, who have usurped a religion, to manipulate state action that is inevitably damaging to the health of the nation.
Take Saudi Arabia and the United States, for example.
All religions have groups and individuals who abuse the teachings to justify bigotry and violence.
Some nations' governments allow these groups of fanatics, who have usurped a religion, to manipulate state action that is inevitably damaging to the health of the nation.
Take Saudi Arabia and the United States, for example.
4
Isn't homophobia the intersection of Islamic Extremists and Trump Supporter Demography ?
7
I don't understand why civilians need assault rifles and ammo? Hunting rifles, shotguns and handguns I feel are acceptable. Those rights we have. But who NEEDS a gun like he used except for police and military?
17
Why does the police need assault rifles? Serious question...
3
Assault rifle is a term of propaganda made up by the
anti - 2nd Amendment crowd
Semi automatic rifles like the AR-15 have been in existence for over 100 years
The AR type rifle was originally designed back in the 1950's
It uses a "bolt" design (the part that contains the firing pin and holds the bullet and locks it into the chamber) that is based off of a gun which was designed back in the 1930's
It wasn't until they're painted it black and the Left Wing Gun Grabbers started a marketing campaign to demonize the "Black Rifle" that the term assault rifle was attached to it.
An assault rifle is a fully automatic military weapon first designed by the Germans in WWll
Generally speaking you can not own them
(a special permitting is required and some states outlaw them even if you were eligible for the permit ie. CA, NY)
anti - 2nd Amendment crowd
Semi automatic rifles like the AR-15 have been in existence for over 100 years
The AR type rifle was originally designed back in the 1950's
It uses a "bolt" design (the part that contains the firing pin and holds the bullet and locks it into the chamber) that is based off of a gun which was designed back in the 1930's
It wasn't until they're painted it black and the Left Wing Gun Grabbers started a marketing campaign to demonize the "Black Rifle" that the term assault rifle was attached to it.
An assault rifle is a fully automatic military weapon first designed by the Germans in WWll
Generally speaking you can not own them
(a special permitting is required and some states outlaw them even if you were eligible for the permit ie. CA, NY)
4
The police need assault rifles so that they can match the fire power of someone like this killer. Our cops were out-gunned with their revolvers. You can take shots at someone with an automatic if you only have a revolver.
1
With all the power and control that the NRA and its lovers claim come with gun possession, how did it take 3 hours for the fully armed and trained police in Orlando to get in and rescue the few remaining survivors? The police had lots of guns but were too cowardly or something to think of using them. Instead, they allowed a mass murderer to slaughter trapped innocents. So much for the usefulness of guns and gun owners.
3
Reminds me of the Columbine massacre of kids; they took a long time to enter the school. A teacher had called out for help. We had a huge police presence in Ferguson, but none in Orlando? All those cop cars and cops. In the meantime, a man was murdering people inside the club. They had to punch a hole in the wall before they could enter? Really? Was there a barricade at the front door? Was the outdoor patio mined?
Gee, maybe they were professionals who knew what they were doing, as opposed to armchair warriors.
4
After all the carnage, I think that those who cling to "the right to bear arms" so literally and vigorously should be limited to muskets, as the Founding Fathers envisioned.
17
The founding fathers also envisioned that freedom of the press would be limited to broadsheets and paper pamphlets. Are you willing to give up the 1st amendment as it pertains to radio, tv and the internet?
2
I lived in Blacksburg in 2007 and listened with horror as the events on the Virginia Tech campus unfolded, while my husband was on lock-down on campus. That was horrific, how much worse could it get? Surely this would finally spur some action somewhere. Wrong. Then it did get worse: Sandy Hook happened. Surely this must be the event that will get some meaningful legislation passed, I mean, were talking about little kids, right? Not a chance. Well it has finally gotten much much worse. How much loss, pain, and suffering must we endure before someone has the guts to take on the gun industry and say 'enough already?' I know I'm ready for this person to step forward.
And it doesn't matter if the shooter swore allegiance to ISIS, Al Qaeda, if he was a racist, sane, insane, or radicalized; in every case they were very dangerous people with very deadly weapons.
And it doesn't matter if the shooter swore allegiance to ISIS, Al Qaeda, if he was a racist, sane, insane, or radicalized; in every case they were very dangerous people with very deadly weapons.
16
Weapons are everywhere...
You might as well try to rid the world of rats and mice as to try to rid it of guns and bullets. A weapons ban misses the point. Point being? Motive...
You might as well try to rid the world of rats and mice as to try to rid it of guns and bullets. A weapons ban misses the point. Point being? Motive...
8
Frightening level of panic, hysteria and illogical so-called thinking...
Truth is, I've been seeing the same arguments for fifty years.
That tell you anything?
You are not going to fix murder with a gun law.
Want to reduce the death rate in this society?
Do something about state-sponsored murder, the only kind the people can actually control.
End the death penalty.
Stop war.
Shun violence in music, literature and film.
Create a culture based upon *love* instead of *greed* and *hate*.
Try it...seriously.
Truth is, I've been seeing the same arguments for fifty years.
That tell you anything?
You are not going to fix murder with a gun law.
Want to reduce the death rate in this society?
Do something about state-sponsored murder, the only kind the people can actually control.
End the death penalty.
Stop war.
Shun violence in music, literature and film.
Create a culture based upon *love* instead of *greed* and *hate*.
Try it...seriously.
2
I know it's off-topic, but DONALD TRUMP HAS NO BUSINESS MAKING THIS FRIGHTFUL EVENT A "TALKING POINT" FOR HIS WEAK-MINDED CAMPAIGN. If you voters can't see how disgustingly self-serving he is, I pity you. He's not qualified to be a dog catcher.
8
Let's hope he's our next commander. I'm tired of the weak political talk. Let's get real for 4 or 8 years.
7
I am kind of getting tired of families of terrorists acting like they can't possibly have anything to do with the horror their own young kids perpetrate. Even more bothersome is when the Imams to which these terrorists used to go to gives interviews after a terrorist incident to claim that they only thought of love and acceptance.
I appreciate that we can't go around demolishing houses of terrorists like the Israelis are forced to do to deter further acts of terror; but, at the very least, we should be able to hold these Imams accountable to the facts, and not simply accept the interview they give afterwards declaring innocence.
I appreciate that we can't go around demolishing houses of terrorists like the Israelis are forced to do to deter further acts of terror; but, at the very least, we should be able to hold these Imams accountable to the facts, and not simply accept the interview they give afterwards declaring innocence.
11
What if someone invented a device that when you pressed a button 50 random people would instantly die. Would it be legal to sell such a device? Of course not, it would be insane to allow people to wander into a store and buy such a powerful and dangerous device.
Yet that is what the US allows now. Most of the adult population can legally acquire an AR-15 that in a few seconds can kill 50 people. As a society it is absolutely insane that we allow this to happen.
The gun lobby's fear mongering slippery slope argument that if AR-15 sales are restricted that will inevitably lead to restrictions on handguns purchased for personal protection is not a serious argument and should not be taken seriously.
How is it possible that one lobby, pushing an agenda that causes more deaths than multiple 9/11s each year, can hold the entire country and Congress hostage?
Yet that is what the US allows now. Most of the adult population can legally acquire an AR-15 that in a few seconds can kill 50 people. As a society it is absolutely insane that we allow this to happen.
The gun lobby's fear mongering slippery slope argument that if AR-15 sales are restricted that will inevitably lead to restrictions on handguns purchased for personal protection is not a serious argument and should not be taken seriously.
How is it possible that one lobby, pushing an agenda that causes more deaths than multiple 9/11s each year, can hold the entire country and Congress hostage?
18
That "one" lobby represents 5 million members and over 100 million gun owners. We have 2 much bigger killers in the US - Doctors (400,000 a year plus) and automobiles (40,000). Why aren't you outraged by this? Firearms are used defensively over 1300 a day to protect people's lives.
2
It's got something to do with most docs doing the best they can and pretty much getting the facts straight, as opposed to you guys' just making stuff up and screaming.
1
Huge fail by the FBI!
9
The father is clearly in denial, "My son... was a very good boy, an educated boy, who had a child and a wife, very respectful of his parents," he says.... Except that the son's ex-wife said he was violent towards her, and other evidence the father chose not to see about his "very good boy." Who knows what rage Omar Mateen picked up from his father, who, apparently spoke highly of the Taliban -- who pillage Afghanistan and lead it to ruin. Surely the father has some responsibility in shaping his son's consiousness. If he had the capacity to look inward, instead of to the book, maybe he'd understand "the anger" his son had "in his heart." Islam, like any religion, needs a keen and insightful interpreter, otherwise it's easily perverted and used as a tool of escape.
11
I remember Bill at his nomination, the exact words, "White or black, straight or gay...", and we went wild. Protect gay people with more than words.
2
The LGBT community is a potent force for political change. To paraphrase Allen Ginsberg, put the LGBT community's "queer shoulder to the wheel" of gun violence and watch the NRA collapse in on itself.
10
If we really want to support the survivors - let's help stop this ridiculous push back against gay marriage, let's put an end to colleges being allowed to opt out of TITLE IX (which includes members of the LGBTQ community) for religious reasons.....let's work harder to make this country a better and safer place for all members of the LGBTQ community.
There are ten countries where being LGBTQ is punishable by death: Yemen, Iran, Iraq, Mauritania, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, and the UAE. Why don't we suspend diplomatic ties with these countries? Why don't we suspend the millions of the dollars of aid we send to them? I think it is time for a very strong statement in addition to condolences and prayers.
There are ten countries where being LGBTQ is punishable by death: Yemen, Iran, Iraq, Mauritania, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, and the UAE. Why don't we suspend diplomatic ties with these countries? Why don't we suspend the millions of the dollars of aid we send to them? I think it is time for a very strong statement in addition to condolences and prayers.
13
The story says Mateen shot nearly all the victims in the first stages of his assault.
How many was that? And how many of the victims were shot by police.
We are more than 24 hours after this story.
Can we please get the basic facts straight.
How long did police stand outside the club and listen to the execution shots inside?
Three hours?
Why did the police not move the man blocking the door with hundreds of people trying to escape the club?
How many was that? And how many of the victims were shot by police.
We are more than 24 hours after this story.
Can we please get the basic facts straight.
How long did police stand outside the club and listen to the execution shots inside?
Three hours?
Why did the police not move the man blocking the door with hundreds of people trying to escape the club?
7
read the NYT account,.read the Washington Post account
Your information is way off base.!
There were crisis officers who were talking to the killer, who was holding the hostages.They (police) didn't know how many shooters were inside, if there was a bomb, etc., etc.
Read before you criticize the actions and judgments of very well trained personnel working in a mind-boggling, exceedingly dangerous situation.
Your information is way off base.!
There were crisis officers who were talking to the killer, who was holding the hostages.They (police) didn't know how many shooters were inside, if there was a bomb, etc., etc.
Read before you criticize the actions and judgments of very well trained personnel working in a mind-boggling, exceedingly dangerous situation.
8
I've read dozens of accounts.
103 shot....by whom?
The police chief says it's under investigation, how many victims were shot by police.
You'd think by now there would be more information than this.
103 shot....by whom?
The police chief says it's under investigation, how many victims were shot by police.
You'd think by now there would be more information than this.
1
Trump has stated that had we not allowed the father of Omar Mateen into the United States this tragedy would have not happened, and that therefore we should prevent any additional immigration by Muslims from area when terrorism is found. OK - but what the millions who are here already. Taking Mr. Trumps' argument to its logical and inevitable conclusion, all Muslim residents of the United States present a 'clear and present danger' to our safety and should be rounded up like Japanese American after Pearl Harbor.
This will not avoid mass shooting like those in New Town or those in a Colorado movie theater - But hey - you have to start someplace. Some have suggested that we prevent the sale of killing machines designed to kill dozens of human beings in a few minutes, but this proposal would trample on the Constitutional Rights of gun owners - and we all know how vigorously gun owners defend the rights embodied in the Constitution -
c
This will not avoid mass shooting like those in New Town or those in a Colorado movie theater - But hey - you have to start someplace. Some have suggested that we prevent the sale of killing machines designed to kill dozens of human beings in a few minutes, but this proposal would trample on the Constitutional Rights of gun owners - and we all know how vigorously gun owners defend the rights embodied in the Constitution -
c
6
What rights? All I see is that a "well regulated militia" has a right to keep and bear arms.
9
Apparently the 2nd Amendment has been perverted to include an army of AR-15 wingnuts in a 21st Century Revolutionary War against unarmed Americans. The British might still planning to attack us and establish a Parliament? I would support that; Britain does not allow the sale and use of military style weapons, or any other kind of weapon. If our Congress cannot put back the legislation which originally banned the sale of semi-automatic weapons, why are my taxes supporting this bunch of clowns? They are pouring money into a distant fight against ISIS; in the meantime, education is underfunded; universal health care is not funded; housing for the homeless, including children living in shelters, is not funded. I would hate to think our Congress is bought by the MIC, or that they run in fear of the big, scary NRA. However, that is what I do think.
5
There are approximately 5 million registered AR-15s in the USA which is only a particular model of "assault style" rifle. Adam Lanza used a Bushmaster XM-15 which is similar in design.
Imagine the carnage if all 5 million AR-15s were to suddenly start shooting people?
Imagine the carnage if all 5 million AR-15s were to suddenly start shooting people?
11
Imagine if everyone who had a car drove it at high speed into a crowd on a sidewalk...point being, your argument is based upon a fallacy.
9
Sorry, but your analogy is based on faulty reasoning. Cars are designed and built to transport people and are rarely used intentionally to hurt and kill people. Assault weapons are designed and built to kill many people very efficiently and are commonly used intentionally to hurt and kill people. It's just ludicrous that these weapons specifically designed for mass killing are legal and so easy to acquire in this country. Why should we not make it as hard as we possibly can for crazy people and criminals to get their hands on these weapons?
9
American Ritual. Stages of mass shootings in America: 1) Shock & Horror. Body count. Injured count. Murderer ID'd. 2) Outrage. Political polarization. Guns v. Ideology. 3) Blame. Disaffected young men. Radical Islam. Homophobes. Racists. Disgruntled workers. Mentally ill. Economically desperate. 4) Sorrow. Victims' stories. Makeshift memorials. Flowers & Balloons.
Congress never acts. Assault rifles remain easily accessed. On to the next one.
Congress never acts. Assault rifles remain easily accessed. On to the next one.
24
That's because people voted for those people. Wake up, America!
3
I see that Trump is braying all day about banning Muslim immigration. Why would anyone who had any plans for terrorism claim they were a Muslim if they were trying to immigrate?
11
There is no self-defense reason anyone should have an assault weapon. There is not even any reason to have an automatic gun. Even the police fire too many shots from these weapons,sometimes killing innocent bystanders.
The majority of people in this country do not have guns. Those who do have far too many.
The second amendment does not guarantee the unfettered right to have guns. It guarantees the right to have well ordered militias. Such militias would check their arms and ammo at an armory as the Swiss used to before they banned a lot of guns. This is what "well ordered" means.
The majority of people in this country do not have guns. Those who do have far too many.
The second amendment does not guarantee the unfettered right to have guns. It guarantees the right to have well ordered militias. Such militias would check their arms and ammo at an armory as the Swiss used to before they banned a lot of guns. This is what "well ordered" means.
19
Dear Lawmakers: Please make a military assault weapons illegal.
Please pass laws that prevent the sale of assault weapons to anyone and
everyone. Please ban guns of all types and kinds and sorts to everyone of all types and kinds and sorts. Please please please ...
Please pass laws that prevent the sale of assault weapons to anyone and
everyone. Please ban guns of all types and kinds and sorts to everyone of all types and kinds and sorts. Please please please ...
11
If Congress will not pass sensible gun legislation, why are we paying for their security on Capital Hill? All it takes is a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun! So go ahead, Senators and Congressmen on the NRA payroll-- protect yourselves just the way you want the American public to do it!
27
I believe that Congress should be required to meet fully armed, each with his/her favorite firearm. They should be prohibited from meeting without guns. They are the gun lovers; let them set the example themselves of how safe their guns make them.
5
I agree with Hillary, if you are actively being investigated, or have been investigated in the past by the FBI, you should not be able to buy a gun. Sensible gun laws are need.
That being said, if you are actively being investigated, or have been investigated in the past by the FBI, you should not be able to run for President either....Agree or Not?
That being said, if you are actively being investigated, or have been investigated in the past by the FBI, you should not be able to run for President either....Agree or Not?
28
Really? This is what you chose to write at this time next to this article? Nice.
4
How about you give it a rest for a moment, k?
3
Last Call
“The gunfire did not let up. As rounds were fired, people dropped, some in panic, some because they were wounded, some because they were dead.”
- from article by New York Times Reporter Marc Santora, June 13, 2016
These things happen
again & again
the dead & injured
tallied in column-inches
& bullet-flashes
of breaking news.
These things add up
only to those who do more
than stop,
only to those who count
the moments
& do the math.
They add up
to minutes, hours, days
of other people’s lives.
Second-by-second
these things tick
like the slow realization
that grips each victim
in the infinitesimal millisecond
before shots hit, shrapnel flies,
screaming starts, & bodies begin to fall
to the floor, to the sidewalk, to the ground.
despairing, crying, pleading, echoing—
"O mercy mercy heaven help us,
heaven help
us all."
“The gunfire did not let up. As rounds were fired, people dropped, some in panic, some because they were wounded, some because they were dead.”
- from article by New York Times Reporter Marc Santora, June 13, 2016
These things happen
again & again
the dead & injured
tallied in column-inches
& bullet-flashes
of breaking news.
These things add up
only to those who do more
than stop,
only to those who count
the moments
& do the math.
They add up
to minutes, hours, days
of other people’s lives.
Second-by-second
these things tick
like the slow realization
that grips each victim
in the infinitesimal millisecond
before shots hit, shrapnel flies,
screaming starts, & bodies begin to fall
to the floor, to the sidewalk, to the ground.
despairing, crying, pleading, echoing—
"O mercy mercy heaven help us,
heaven help
us all."
14
The WORST places to live are where only The Central State owns ALL the guns.
That gay bar was a gun-free one. If just the guys who'd been or were soldiers or cops had had a sidearm, I guarantee you that there would not be even a dozen victims.
That gay bar was a gun-free one. If just the guys who'd been or were soldiers or cops had had a sidearm, I guarantee you that there would not be even a dozen victims.
4
There was an off-duty police offer who traded gunfire with Mr. Mateen, but to no avail. As a person who is a gun enthusiast, in the heated exchange of gunfire, a handgun (be it a .45, 10mm, etc.) is no match for an assault rifle. This is why assault rifles are used, to inflict maximum damage against the human body in both short, medium and long distances, with over-whelming force. Your argument that an armed "good guy" can successfully combat a well-armed "bad guy"--who also has the element of surprise-- is completely disingenuous. A deranged man slaughtered 49 innocent people. To be always vigilant against such harm, by arming ourselves with guns that match the firepower of a AR-15, would no longer make us innocent--we would be in a state of perpetual war against our fellow Americans. This is not the America I believe in.
5
The definition of insanity. Keep doing the same things and expect a different result.
1) continue to make assault weapons available
2) continue to make assault weapons available
3) continue to make assault weapons available
4) blame: Muslims, terrorism, Obama, the media, all the good guys you know who don't have guns
5) wait for the next mass shooting (start the clock) and
Repeat
Repeat
Repeat
1) continue to make assault weapons available
2) continue to make assault weapons available
3) continue to make assault weapons available
4) blame: Muslims, terrorism, Obama, the media, all the good guys you know who don't have guns
5) wait for the next mass shooting (start the clock) and
Repeat
Repeat
Repeat
18
Compared to pistols, almost NO murders are carried out with these rifles that you have been asked to fear so much.
We outlawed the assault weapons that looked scary enough to the California Democratic Senators for ten years. The bad did NOT cut murder rates.
''Assault weapons'' are what, exactly? Do they shoot like pistols, one bullet per trigger pull? Do they shoot like Elliot Ness' Tommy guns, rat-a-tat-tat? Do you even know? The Marines use .50 calibre ''Ma Duce'' machine guns when making assaults. Is this what you mean?
Head spinning yet?
We outlawed the assault weapons that looked scary enough to the California Democratic Senators for ten years. The bad did NOT cut murder rates.
''Assault weapons'' are what, exactly? Do they shoot like pistols, one bullet per trigger pull? Do they shoot like Elliot Ness' Tommy guns, rat-a-tat-tat? Do you even know? The Marines use .50 calibre ''Ma Duce'' machine guns when making assaults. Is this what you mean?
Head spinning yet?
2
The definition of insanity. Keep doing the same things and expect a different result.
gun control in Washington DC: murders galore
gun control in Baltimore: murders galore
gun control in Chicago: murders galore
gun-free zone at Pulse nightclub: murders galore.
gun control in Washington DC: murders galore
gun control in Baltimore: murders galore
gun control in Chicago: murders galore
gun-free zone at Pulse nightclub: murders galore.
2
So you're ok with pistols then? Just not 'scary' 'assault weapons' (whatever those are, no one here can explain what an 'assault weapon' is).
2
It makes me so mad to see this comments. This man was investigated by the FBI for 10 months. He was on a 'watch list.' We have mandated background checks and while many here would like that expanded - why? When we don't follow existing background check laws and, most importantly, a 10 month investigation by the FBI means nothing, what new law would stop these murders!?!?
The media and the White House want us to demand new laws when a) they don't enforce existing laws and b) their security departments - of which there are far too many - don't provide their findings to anyone.
The problem isn't gun control, although I have no idea what anyone needs an AK7.
The problem isn't racism or gay hatred, most Americans could care less what you do in private and gay marriage is legal in the US.
The problem isn't Muslims, although I do believe that Islam is not a religion but instead a political state ideology that preaches hate and intolerance.
The problem is our government is FAR TOO large. We have too many security agencies and departments with far too much spending and waste without any outcome to justify their existence. We need ONE agency for security, with 2 main departments. One for US security on US soil and the other for international security - they are currently called the FBI and CIA. Firearms and Tobacco can be rolled into the FBI and terror watch list can be rolled into the CIA. Failure to communicate between the 2 agencies is grounds for dismissal.
The media and the White House want us to demand new laws when a) they don't enforce existing laws and b) their security departments - of which there are far too many - don't provide their findings to anyone.
The problem isn't gun control, although I have no idea what anyone needs an AK7.
The problem isn't racism or gay hatred, most Americans could care less what you do in private and gay marriage is legal in the US.
The problem isn't Muslims, although I do believe that Islam is not a religion but instead a political state ideology that preaches hate and intolerance.
The problem is our government is FAR TOO large. We have too many security agencies and departments with far too much spending and waste without any outcome to justify their existence. We need ONE agency for security, with 2 main departments. One for US security on US soil and the other for international security - they are currently called the FBI and CIA. Firearms and Tobacco can be rolled into the FBI and terror watch list can be rolled into the CIA. Failure to communicate between the 2 agencies is grounds for dismissal.
12
Agreed. What does it take to arrest or deport someone! What all the tiptoeing by the FBI!
3
"The problem isn't Muslims, although I do believe that Islam is not a religion but instead a political state ideology that preaches hate and intolerance."
Like Christianity is in Texas, Alabama, North Carolina, etc.?
Like Christianity is in Texas, Alabama, North Carolina, etc.?
9
Republicans blocked legislation that would have kept people on terrorist watch lists from buying guns.
If it bothers you that suspected terrorists can buy guns, then you should know that your 2 Georgia Senators, Perdue and Isakson, voted to block legislation that would block people on the terror watch list to buy guns.
Be sure to vote against them when they are up for re-election
Here is the list of shame of Senators standing in the way of doing what you said, who enabled this weekend's terrorist's gun purchases, and here is the link to the full article re this
http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/12/09/gun-control-roll-call-bac...
NAYs: 54
Alexander (R-TN)
Ayotte (R-NH)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Blunt (R-MO)
Boozman (R-AR)
Burr (R-NC)
Capito (R-WV)
Cassidy (R-LA)
Coats (R-IN)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Cotton (R-AR)
Crapo (R-ID)
Cruz (R-TX)
Daines (R-MT)
Enzi (R-WY)
Ernst (R-IA)
Fischer (R-NE)
Flake (R-AZ)
Gardner (R-CO)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Heitkamp (D-ND)
Heller (R-NV)
Hoeven (R-ND)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Johnson (R-WI)
Lankford (R-OK)
Lee (R-UT)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Moran (R-KS)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Paul (R-KY)
Perdue (R-GA)
Portman (R-OH)
Risch (R-ID)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rounds (R-SD)
Rubio (R-FL)
Sasse (R-NE)
Scott (R-SC)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Sullivan (R-AK)
Thune (R-SD)
Tillis (R-NC)
Toomey (R-PA)
Vitter (R-LA)
Wicker (R-MS)
If it bothers you that suspected terrorists can buy guns, then you should know that your 2 Georgia Senators, Perdue and Isakson, voted to block legislation that would block people on the terror watch list to buy guns.
Be sure to vote against them when they are up for re-election
Here is the list of shame of Senators standing in the way of doing what you said, who enabled this weekend's terrorist's gun purchases, and here is the link to the full article re this
http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/12/09/gun-control-roll-call-bac...
NAYs: 54
Alexander (R-TN)
Ayotte (R-NH)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Blunt (R-MO)
Boozman (R-AR)
Burr (R-NC)
Capito (R-WV)
Cassidy (R-LA)
Coats (R-IN)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Cotton (R-AR)
Crapo (R-ID)
Cruz (R-TX)
Daines (R-MT)
Enzi (R-WY)
Ernst (R-IA)
Fischer (R-NE)
Flake (R-AZ)
Gardner (R-CO)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Heitkamp (D-ND)
Heller (R-NV)
Hoeven (R-ND)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Johnson (R-WI)
Lankford (R-OK)
Lee (R-UT)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Moran (R-KS)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Paul (R-KY)
Perdue (R-GA)
Portman (R-OH)
Risch (R-ID)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rounds (R-SD)
Rubio (R-FL)
Sasse (R-NE)
Scott (R-SC)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Sullivan (R-AK)
Thune (R-SD)
Tillis (R-NC)
Toomey (R-PA)
Vitter (R-LA)
Wicker (R-MS)
8
The psychotic delusional male of our day is on display. Islam may be the psycho's cover in Orlando. But New Town was not Islam. Aurora was not Islam. Oregon was not Islam.
And in my view, 9-11 was not Islam. Islam is their cover. Sick males of our day. Many reasons. Not Islam.
Am I a lover of Islam? No. Religion does not enter my mind regarding psychotics.
Get that straight.
Read Mona El-Naggar, February 18, 2015, The New York Times: Islam is their cover. It's not the cause. And the cause is in plain view.
They make it up as they go along. The angry male of our day.
We might get one for president. Think about that.
Which is not to suggest I forgive Clinton Inc. But for sheer rubbish, study Trump. Hillary is angry, too. Guess why.
President Clinton on the morning of his last day did what he swore he would not. I was not surprised.
He acts out. He's a child.
His wife is different. Do I trust her? No. Will I vote for her?
Maybe.
And in my view, 9-11 was not Islam. Islam is their cover. Sick males of our day. Many reasons. Not Islam.
Am I a lover of Islam? No. Religion does not enter my mind regarding psychotics.
Get that straight.
Read Mona El-Naggar, February 18, 2015, The New York Times: Islam is their cover. It's not the cause. And the cause is in plain view.
They make it up as they go along. The angry male of our day.
We might get one for president. Think about that.
Which is not to suggest I forgive Clinton Inc. But for sheer rubbish, study Trump. Hillary is angry, too. Guess why.
President Clinton on the morning of his last day did what he swore he would not. I was not surprised.
He acts out. He's a child.
His wife is different. Do I trust her? No. Will I vote for her?
Maybe.
6
All those sick men, raised by their mothers. How do you figure that?
Otherwise, I don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Otherwise, I don't have a clue what you're talking about.
2
Here is the hard cold political reality for you.
If 20 dead kindergartens and first-graders can't make America move the needle on reasonable gun control, 50 dead gay people ain't gonna do it either. As far as political sympathy goes, young kids are hold the most political capital imaginable in this country and gay people have about the very least.
We should start counting the days until everyone inevitably throws up their hands and says nothing further can be done. It'll be a short count.
If 20 dead kindergartens and first-graders can't make America move the needle on reasonable gun control, 50 dead gay people ain't gonna do it either. As far as political sympathy goes, young kids are hold the most political capital imaginable in this country and gay people have about the very least.
We should start counting the days until everyone inevitably throws up their hands and says nothing further can be done. It'll be a short count.
27
The disfunction which characterizes so much of the bureaucracy is fatally illustrated here, as the FBI investigations and watch list classification of the gunman failed to be forwarded to the weapons purchase data base. Reminds one of the old firewall between the CIA and domestic inquiries. Have we learned so little from 9/11? Oh, and the assertion of the father (who praised the Taliban and, as reported by the NY Daily News, hosted an Afghan TV show filled with anti-US rantings) that he knew nothing of his son's feelings and outbursts is eerily familiar to and similarly unconvincing as were the declarations of surprise from the family of the San Bernadino terrorists and the Boston Marathon killers' parents. And then there is the company that employed and armed him as a security officer, a company that was contracted by the US government. Do they bear no responsibility for monitoring the behavior of an employee entrusted with a weapon? Solution: prosecute those close to terrorists on the grounds of aiding and abetting. If the evidence cannot support a conviction it will at least send a message that "if you see something, say something" is not just another tired bromide. Too harsh?
Tell that to the victims' families.
Tell that to the victims' families.
10
Do not forget that the killer purchased an assault weapon legally with a history of domestic violence. And gun violence research which we the people want has been banned because of the influence the NRA has in our government! Enough!~
20
So, this is it. This is the new normal. We can leave flowers at the site, and look for what motivated the murderer, and wait in the crosshairs for the next, upcoming tragedy. Right now, it's guns, but as soon as these nut jobs can escalate to more effective ways of murdering civilians, they will. This century is shaping up as a blood-soaked misery.
13
Then we should make car bombs and suicide vests illegal to keep them out of hands of terrorists.
3
Or, we could stop marketing and selling assault rifles to crazy people who'd made it ckear they were crazy.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
2
This represents a terrible failure by the FBI. How many times have we heard that nothing was considered alarming by those who should have founds something alarming. What ever criteria they are using needs to be changed so that alarm bells will ring off next time. Maybe they did go off but were muffled by pressure from somewhere else. There is a report out that both the FBI and Home Land Security were told to call off their investigations into the mosque Mateen was part of because Clinton's state Department thought it might offend Muslims. It would be important for a news agency like the NYT to confirm or disprove that claim. The President also seems to want to paint over the ties to ISIS. He calls this home grown terrorism. It isn't. Timothy McVeigh was home grown. The terrorist may have have been home grown but this was terrorism right out of the ISIS and compatible with Paris and San Bernardino. But if the President did define this as connected to ISIS, the pressure to take serious action to protect us would be raised. His plain to "contain" them hasn't. We would want ISIS to realize they have "awaken a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve."
11
Two questions:
(1)The police were called at 2 am.
Three hours later - the SWAT team moved in. WHY so long?
(2) An article said that he was on the Terror List for flying in a plane. Yet he had no probably buying all those guns and ammunition.
The politicians of the USA need to be prosecuted for their dereliction of duty toward the people that they are called to protect and serve.. They think more of the frickin NRA than the children, women and men who have been slaughtered because they don`t have the guts to pass sensible gun restrictions.
(1)The police were called at 2 am.
Three hours later - the SWAT team moved in. WHY so long?
(2) An article said that he was on the Terror List for flying in a plane. Yet he had no probably buying all those guns and ammunition.
The politicians of the USA need to be prosecuted for their dereliction of duty toward the people that they are called to protect and serve.. They think more of the frickin NRA than the children, women and men who have been slaughtered because they don`t have the guts to pass sensible gun restrictions.
12
Guns are exactly like the weather: "everybody talks about it, but nobody does anything about it".
I'm not calling for action. I'm suggesting that changing culture and changing the times we live in might be as hard as stopping climate change. How to respond? The climate is changing, so don't invest in oceanfront property, and begin making plans to move north. Don't assume the debate about climate change will stop the change.
There are two principal lessons about guns here: 1) these attacks will continue to occur, and 2) the ensuing public outcry will not produce legislation or action to eliminate guns. How many times does this lesson need to be repeated before it sinks in?
Beat your head against the wall and demand laws if it makes you feel better. But the best you can really do is remember the basics of using an ATM machine: be aware of your surroundings and get back in your car if you see something suspicious.
People say, 'get rid of extremists and ISIS'. Sorry, we are in a period of epic bad weather and you want to play 'whack-a-mole'.
If you leave the house, remember to take your umbrella.
I'm not calling for action. I'm suggesting that changing culture and changing the times we live in might be as hard as stopping climate change. How to respond? The climate is changing, so don't invest in oceanfront property, and begin making plans to move north. Don't assume the debate about climate change will stop the change.
There are two principal lessons about guns here: 1) these attacks will continue to occur, and 2) the ensuing public outcry will not produce legislation or action to eliminate guns. How many times does this lesson need to be repeated before it sinks in?
Beat your head against the wall and demand laws if it makes you feel better. But the best you can really do is remember the basics of using an ATM machine: be aware of your surroundings and get back in your car if you see something suspicious.
People say, 'get rid of extremists and ISIS'. Sorry, we are in a period of epic bad weather and you want to play 'whack-a-mole'.
If you leave the house, remember to take your umbrella.
1
The problem is not just Isis. If there was no Isis, some other group of haters would replace them. The problem is guns and other weapons of destruction. Can everyone just stop for a moment and think of a world with guns? And a world without hate?
Stop the hate. Stop the killings. No more guns.
Stop the hate. Stop the killings. No more guns.
5
Arrest or deport hate group sympathizers: Boston, San Bernadino, Orlando, Paris...
They were all on Law enforcement "radar" but the liberal machine of civil rights prevents proper action.
(You can't threaten the US president, so why isn't there a law banning sympathising with a terrorist group?)
They were all on Law enforcement "radar" but the liberal machine of civil rights prevents proper action.
(You can't threaten the US president, so why isn't there a law banning sympathising with a terrorist group?)
5
Hate guns...never owned one.
Suppose there were no government, though.
Certainly, it is hard to argue government has been effective in this realm.
Suppose everyone were forced to rely mainly upon themselves for protection. Suppose everyone had been carrying a gun that night.
How do you think it would have played out?
I am a pacifist.
But, I am not stupid, either.
If you disarm the people, render them helpless, they become dependent upon others, e.g., government, for protection. If the government cannot protect them, then the people need to render themselves less helpless.
Suppose there were no government, though.
Certainly, it is hard to argue government has been effective in this realm.
Suppose everyone were forced to rely mainly upon themselves for protection. Suppose everyone had been carrying a gun that night.
How do you think it would have played out?
I am a pacifist.
But, I am not stupid, either.
If you disarm the people, render them helpless, they become dependent upon others, e.g., government, for protection. If the government cannot protect them, then the people need to render themselves less helpless.
4
To blame ISIS for the massacre in Orlando is akin to blaming the dog for the Son of Sam shootings. There will always be violent, outlaw fringe groups to motivate disturbed deranged persons. Name a period in history without such.
It is also fantasy to expect mental health services to stop these slaughters when politicians slash and cut mental health every chance they get.
Go down to a mental health center and tell us if it is adequate. Never seen a psychologist who could disarm an AR-15.
Politicians put your money where your mouth is.
It is also fantasy to expect mental health services to stop these slaughters when politicians slash and cut mental health every chance they get.
Go down to a mental health center and tell us if it is adequate. Never seen a psychologist who could disarm an AR-15.
Politicians put your money where your mouth is.
18
As for psychology, an abundance of research shows that it is nearly impossible to predict dangerousness, unless the person vooices immediate intent - in which case you don't need a psychologist. Just call the police.
If it were easy to "read" someone's mind, that would make us all nervous, wouldn't it? No one has a way to do that.
And the fact that a person intending to do violence keeps it a secret should not surprise us. Only if it's a secret can they hope to succeed.
Law enforcement is doing its best to protect us. But there is no way to guarantee safety from lone gunmen bent on doing harm.
Be vigilant and report strange doings!
If it were easy to "read" someone's mind, that would make us all nervous, wouldn't it? No one has a way to do that.
And the fact that a person intending to do violence keeps it a secret should not surprise us. Only if it's a secret can they hope to succeed.
Law enforcement is doing its best to protect us. But there is no way to guarantee safety from lone gunmen bent on doing harm.
Be vigilant and report strange doings!
There has to be a solution which targets the bottom line of gun companies. Many of them are bankrolled and effectively kept afloat by private equity firms like Cerberus Capital Management. Could the NYSE, a private entity, unilaterally decide to delist gun companies?
Corporate America was the key player in getting the bought and paid for right-wing shills in the government to finally give up and drop their opposition to legalized same-sex marriage. Maybe the suits could step up and do something in the case of the sale and circulation of guns.
Corporate America was the key player in getting the bought and paid for right-wing shills in the government to finally give up and drop their opposition to legalized same-sex marriage. Maybe the suits could step up and do something in the case of the sale and circulation of guns.
7
We hear again and again the cry of the left that it's "unconstitutional" or "un-American" for Trump to (temporarily) ban foreign Muslims from entering the United States. But Federal law already bans many, many categories of people under Chapter 8, Section 1182 of the U.S. Code. People who have communicable diseases; those who belonged to communist, fascist, or other totalitarian parties; practicing polygamists; and even unqualified doctors (!) are specifically barred from entering the U.S. We already exclude people based on their beliefs (communism, fascism, etc.). It's no stretch to extend this to members of religious group whose members have been committing the most appalling crimes around the world for decades.
9
This lack of protocol smacks of Columbine, where the police swat team cowered outside rather than attack. There is no doubt in my mind that had the local police intervened, many of the wounded, who subsequently bled to death in that three hour delay, might well be alive today.
6
Obviously, there should have been a bright red flag on his name, related to any application for gun purchase, IF indeed the FBI had looked at him a couple of times, for any reason. C'mon.
5
The FBI "case" should never have been closed. Computers should make surveillance of gun ownership much easier. Just get Congress to do the right thing, for a change. Easy peasy...right?
3
Remember that after the attempt on President Reagan's life back in the 1980s, President Reagan and James Brady put together a bill banning assault guns BUT come 2004 and the illegal war criminal GWBush administration decided NOT to reauthorized the Brady Bill. What has happened and will continue to happen, IS because of the illegal GWBush Administration and republicans and the corporations namely NRA and the special interests/lobbyists, until this country bans forever guns and joins the civilized world and the 21st century instead of the first century. The illegal war criminal GWBush Administration and the republican'ts, the gift that just keeps on giving. And don't worry, the government isn't coming for your guns. Stop being paranoid. The ONLY place you need a gun is at home locked up and unloaded or at the shooting range or out hunting and no where else! No one needs a gun at school or in college, at day care, in a mall or in a bar, etc. Stop being paranoid. Just another reason to vote ONLY Democrat 2016.
7
Was cool and calm???
Why?
In all the reporting on this story I have yet to read of how he was killed, or the condition of his body?
Was he removed after being superficially shot, put on a stretcher and wisked away, to be given a new identity by those who paid him for his work on this event, the perpetual war promoters?
Was that why he was so cool and calm.
Because he simply had to execute the plan and leave.
Someone tell me where there is a eyewitness account of his death.
I haven't seen it.
Why?
In all the reporting on this story I have yet to read of how he was killed, or the condition of his body?
Was he removed after being superficially shot, put on a stretcher and wisked away, to be given a new identity by those who paid him for his work on this event, the perpetual war promoters?
Was that why he was so cool and calm.
Because he simply had to execute the plan and leave.
Someone tell me where there is a eyewitness account of his death.
I haven't seen it.
5
I know there are constitutional implications which did not apply to my situation, but...
Back in the day, I used to administer online "massively multiplayer" games. Banning customers for repeated inappropriate behavior was a necessary and regular part of the business. We didn't have play time cards like most games now; when you created an account, you had to provide a credit card and associated billing address.
Banned customers frequently tried to come back on new accounts. Sometimes we would catch them trying to use the same card, sometimes the same billing information. And sometimes a new player would tell another player they were "really so-and-so", a person who had been banned.
If someone claimed to be a player who had previously been banned, we banned the new account. Most of them would claim they were "just kidding" upon being told their new account was being closed, and that they were not really the previously-banned player. I didn't care. If you told people you were Joe Jerk-Face, I took you at your word.
My point being, if you tell people you're in Hamas or Al-Qaeda, as far as I'm concerned you don't get to recant.
Back in the day, I used to administer online "massively multiplayer" games. Banning customers for repeated inappropriate behavior was a necessary and regular part of the business. We didn't have play time cards like most games now; when you created an account, you had to provide a credit card and associated billing address.
Banned customers frequently tried to come back on new accounts. Sometimes we would catch them trying to use the same card, sometimes the same billing information. And sometimes a new player would tell another player they were "really so-and-so", a person who had been banned.
If someone claimed to be a player who had previously been banned, we banned the new account. Most of them would claim they were "just kidding" upon being told their new account was being closed, and that they were not really the previously-banned player. I didn't care. If you told people you were Joe Jerk-Face, I took you at your word.
My point being, if you tell people you're in Hamas or Al-Qaeda, as far as I'm concerned you don't get to recant.
3
Another excuse for the police to be armed to the teeth--the SWAT team blasted into the club with an armored vehicle. This shooter's thoughts were inchoate and he seems to have been on board with every terrorist organization, with ISIS and also with their enemies. The one thing he didn't want to be was an American, although that is what he was. He seems to have renounced being an American with a fervor. An incendiary person helped along by America's weak gun laws, with so many loop holes that plugging them would be impossible for any one president to do. A man can kill with bombs, suicide vests, with missiles and chemical or biological weapons--true. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't deal with assault weapons. The guy who sold guns to this killer was on CNN declaring that he followed the strict laws of Florida and did a background check as required by those laws before he sold Mateen his weapons--what? Mateen being on FBI's radar didn't show up on the background checks? Besides, why did he sell Mateen an assault weapon? Did he think that Mateen was going to play with it in his bedroom with his GI Joe toy in toe/ I tell you, the day I understand any of these inanities, that will be the day I'll attain nirvana.
2
It is the fault of Congress that US citizens are gunned down by madmen. They are in control of gun laws and refuse to make any changes. What we are really seeing is human sacrifice sanctioned by the US Congress so that they can continue to receive their bribes from the NRA. I suggest that we sacrifice one member of congress and one member of the NRA or their family members each time their is another mass shooting until they finally begin to make changes to gun laws.
6
And we're supposed to trust local police and the FBI to have our backs, right? It took too long for the people who needed to be there, to be there. One second could have been enough to save lives, and there was a generous amount of time wasted. Although we have to change gun laws and regulations, help the one's holding them too.
5
The height of idiocy: his father says it's up to God to punish homosexuals and in the next breath claims to be utterly clueless as to why the son he raised hates homosexuals so much he empties an AK-15 in a crowded gay club. These people who poison their children's minds with the delusions of religion are as culpable as those who carry out the destruction.
13
What a sad state of the country. Instead of discussing how to fight terrorism people stick to the talking points of their party and are discussing the gun restrictions - which of course have nothing to do with terrorism but have everything to do with elections.
Distraction from obvious, even in face of tragedy and imminent danger.
Distraction from obvious, even in face of tragedy and imminent danger.
6
So the FBI conducts a 10 month investigation? and what? Did they speak to his wife about her abuse and the violent schizophrenic outbreaks she witnessed? Did they heed fellow employees who saw his anger, hatred and verbal threats? Did they then register him so that if he ever bought an assault rifle or avowed ISIS allegiance it would be reported?
8
The answer to your questions is No, they did not.
2
Has anyone explained why it took three hours for the authorities to disarm the gunman (similar to police taking such a long time to track down the Boston
bombers).
And it seems the club didn't have exits that one would think should be legally required in case of fire. People seemed unnecessarily trapped.
bombers).
And it seems the club didn't have exits that one would think should be legally required in case of fire. People seemed unnecessarily trapped.
2
I had to pay $100, undergo a background check and be interviewed before getting a Global Entry card from TSA so I don't have to take my flip flops off when going thru airport security. This killer was investigated twice by the FBI, put on a terrorist watch list for a year, and still got to buy guns.
14
We can't afford to sit back and wait for politicians on both sides to do anything on guns and violence in this country. The entire GOP and too many Democrats are in a state of paralysis because they will not confront the NRA and gun lobby. And that's not the only lobby they won't confront, but on guns, we as a society have reached the height of insanity. It is long overdue for millions to march in Washington demanding change on this issue and many others.
7
Had the ex-wife pressed charges against Omar Mateen, maybe, just maybe these lives would have been spared. When we don't speak up, someone pays.
4
Unless we could have locked him up and thrown away the key, he would have been out and about in a few months. And given how many prisoners have been further drawn into radical Muslim terrorism while they are incarcerated, imprisoning him would have made him an even more efficient killer.
1
It's the ex-wife's fault?
3
Prepare for the 'word parsing' political wars, with Obama describing Orlando as domestic terrorism, Hillary saying it was a hate crime, and Trump calling it radical jihadist terror. With scores of people dead or injured, does it really matter what name we call this hideous crime?
7
I'm from Orlando. Taught 18-year olds for 20 years. I have taught several students who were by all accounts, mentally ill. Nothing I could do about it.
Seems to me that this murderer was suffering from mental illness rather than an allegiance to ISIS. He could have been a student of mine.
Rather than buying into Trump's "ban all Muslims", perhaps we could implement a program whereby those people who have daily contact with troubled people could report those troubles, and they could get help.
As it is now, those who see daily the insanity of these troubled people are not allowed to report the problem.
Untie the hands of the teachers and other public school officials and allow them to report on students who exhibit a tendency to violence. I myself had a death threat from one of my students on Facebook, and guess what? Nothing was done.
Seems to me that this murderer was suffering from mental illness rather than an allegiance to ISIS. He could have been a student of mine.
Rather than buying into Trump's "ban all Muslims", perhaps we could implement a program whereby those people who have daily contact with troubled people could report those troubles, and they could get help.
As it is now, those who see daily the insanity of these troubled people are not allowed to report the problem.
Untie the hands of the teachers and other public school officials and allow them to report on students who exhibit a tendency to violence. I myself had a death threat from one of my students on Facebook, and guess what? Nothing was done.
15
Reminds me of Samson Freedman, murdered in the schoolyard by an 8th grader as a crowd of students, who knew of it in advance, watched. Named a school for him in Philadelphia. I taught nearby, early 1970s. Bill Cosby, Temple U., was #1 scold of failing Philly schools at the time, 'nuff said.
3
A sociopath, a wannbe cop, then a wannabe international terrorist. He claimed connections with two terrorist groups at war with one another. He was a half wit who wanted to be a contender, and with an NRA-protected AR-15, he was able to break the solo killing record.
12
Why are guns seem so important to have for a lot of the American people? Doesn't matter for what purpose, a gun is a weapon, a weapon to kill, if not people, then animals. It could be justified that we human as a specie, make weapons so that we can hunt to survive,or,if you believe war is inevitable due to the dark side of human nature, we as a country, should bear arms to fight for our independence and safety from other countries or terror groups.
But, that is what an army is for, the army which your tax dollars helped to pay for. Hunting for the pure purpose of enjoyment, really, is cruel and wrong if you have the capacity to look at the world as not a place created merely for human species, and our own survival depends on a balanced and prosperous eco system in which animals play an important part.
So, why so many people feel that they must have guns? Inherent mistrust to the authority/government? Lesson learned from the wild-wild-west cowboys' past? A deep desire to feel superior and powerful? Are these not just mutual, but even desirable image of guns--weapons that kills, yes, maybe even yourself--a successful decade long marketing effort of a remarkably profitable thus powerful weaponry industry?
But, that is what an army is for, the army which your tax dollars helped to pay for. Hunting for the pure purpose of enjoyment, really, is cruel and wrong if you have the capacity to look at the world as not a place created merely for human species, and our own survival depends on a balanced and prosperous eco system in which animals play an important part.
So, why so many people feel that they must have guns? Inherent mistrust to the authority/government? Lesson learned from the wild-wild-west cowboys' past? A deep desire to feel superior and powerful? Are these not just mutual, but even desirable image of guns--weapons that kills, yes, maybe even yourself--a successful decade long marketing effort of a remarkably profitable thus powerful weaponry industry?
10
@James
Next time you enjoy that steak or that cheese burger or that oven roasted garlic chicken I just hope you realize all you've done is paid for someone else to do your hunting so that you can eat and experience the pure joy of dinner without having to "dirty your hands"
bon appétit
Next time you enjoy that steak or that cheese burger or that oven roasted garlic chicken I just hope you realize all you've done is paid for someone else to do your hunting so that you can eat and experience the pure joy of dinner without having to "dirty your hands"
bon appétit
3
I find it interesting that you think hunting for enjoyment is wrong, but say nothing about eating the "meat" someone else killed for you...In both cases, someone died for a human's pleasure. You sound vehemently opposed to violence, and for that reason I ask you to consider expanding your nonviolent stance to include nonhumans as well as humans.
As per your question: I'm reminded of Locke's social contract. Your assessment assumes that the military will always be on our side, and I hope you're right; but part of the reason individuals are (and should be, with few exceptions, in my opinion) allowed to have guns is so that they can protect themselves and their families in the event that *anyone*--including our own government's army-- turns on us and tries to cause us harm.
This speaks to your "inherent mistrust to authority/government" suggestion, though I think "mistrust" is heavy-handed. I don't think everyone who owns a bomb shelter genuinely believes that a bomb will fall on or near them, but they want to be prepared in case one does (and can afford such preparation).
Beyond that, incidents like this are enough to make anyone want to own a gun. Not to commit atrocities such as this, but to protect themselves and their loved ones should such an atrocity be thrust upon them-- and the police don't get there in time. In a perfect world, police would be able to teleport instantly to any location at which there's danger. This is not a perfect world.
As per your question: I'm reminded of Locke's social contract. Your assessment assumes that the military will always be on our side, and I hope you're right; but part of the reason individuals are (and should be, with few exceptions, in my opinion) allowed to have guns is so that they can protect themselves and their families in the event that *anyone*--including our own government's army-- turns on us and tries to cause us harm.
This speaks to your "inherent mistrust to authority/government" suggestion, though I think "mistrust" is heavy-handed. I don't think everyone who owns a bomb shelter genuinely believes that a bomb will fall on or near them, but they want to be prepared in case one does (and can afford such preparation).
Beyond that, incidents like this are enough to make anyone want to own a gun. Not to commit atrocities such as this, but to protect themselves and their loved ones should such an atrocity be thrust upon them-- and the police don't get there in time. In a perfect world, police would be able to teleport instantly to any location at which there's danger. This is not a perfect world.
Maybe James is a vegetarian. There are a lot of vegetarians and their numbers only keep increasing. I'm hoping that someday we'll all evolve to where we stop eating animals and feeling the need to kill.
1
The killer was not a Muslim immigrant. He was a natural born US Citizen.
Therefore, banning Muslims is not the answer, Mr. Trump.
Therefore, banning Muslims is not the answer, Mr. Trump.
11
Trump said he would “suspend immigration from areas of the world where there is a proven history of terrorism against the United States, Europe or our allies, until we understand how to end these threats.”
Does that mean he would suspend immigration from Ft. Pierce, Florida, where this Muslim US-born citizen is from, and who bought the guns legally? Donald's response is mindless, with no thought to actually taking any positive action against this happening again. Certainly, any action will not include taking steps against owning semi-automatic military style weapons.
Does that mean he would suspend immigration from Ft. Pierce, Florida, where this Muslim US-born citizen is from, and who bought the guns legally? Donald's response is mindless, with no thought to actually taking any positive action against this happening again. Certainly, any action will not include taking steps against owning semi-automatic military style weapons.
24
Why not also deport all New Yorkers back to their ancestral homelands? The shooter was born in NY, hence, all New Yorkers must be bad! ;)
Does he have a "friend" working security at that club... How was he ever able to get into the club?! In order to get into nightclubs you are subjected to pat downs and hand-held metal detectors.
I don't see how it was possible for him to get in without knowing someone.
I don't see how it was possible for him to get in without knowing someone.
7
When you blast your way in with an automatic assault rifle the most rigorous pat-down won't stop you.
3
Didn't blast his way in. Was seen having a drink at the bar. But how was a large weapon not detected?
4
Gun violence is not a partisan issue it is a national issue and should be ended. No one who who is likely to take another person's life should be allowed to bear arms.
6
So just 17,000 suicides by gun, and thousands of accidental shootings a year... Great plan!
2
And how do our leaders react? Obama gives us the same speech he has had to present, sadly, several times before. Heartfelt, I am sure. But there is no leadership.
Trump (he is not a leader yet) immediately politicizes it and appeals to our baser instincts. But at least he calls for action, which, although it insults many, would probably save lives in the long ruin, even if we don't want to admit it.
Hillary read a nicely written speech (not by her) which made sure to touch all of the bases and not offend anyone, but which again demonstrates that she has not got a clue. I mean, establish a committee to deal with the lone wolves? Yeah, that oughta do it, Hills. We will wait for the report, which will cost millions, take years, and, in the meantime, many more will die. Oops - on to my second term! Sound like your healthcare project?
Sad. Very, very sad. We deserve better.
Trump (he is not a leader yet) immediately politicizes it and appeals to our baser instincts. But at least he calls for action, which, although it insults many, would probably save lives in the long ruin, even if we don't want to admit it.
Hillary read a nicely written speech (not by her) which made sure to touch all of the bases and not offend anyone, but which again demonstrates that she has not got a clue. I mean, establish a committee to deal with the lone wolves? Yeah, that oughta do it, Hills. We will wait for the report, which will cost millions, take years, and, in the meantime, many more will die. Oops - on to my second term! Sound like your healthcare project?
Sad. Very, very sad. We deserve better.
20
And what is this "action that will save lives" of Trump's? He said this morning that we should all have assault weapons and other guns. Sure, that would have done the trick!
18
Sure, not banning assault weapons won't help. But Islamic terrorists get their weapons one way or another. If it wasn't an AR (or what's the name), it would've been an AK-47 provided by their networks. Look at Europe, with all its gun laws. The terrorists still get their AK-47's.
Let's start with attacking the ideology. Some gun laws along the way, won't hurt either.
Let's start with attacking the ideology. Some gun laws along the way, won't hurt either.
2
for a long time Americans opposed to the daily American gun massacre have cast fruitless votes. There need to be mass demonstrations.
Make this the Vietnam of this era.
By your numbers but also by the strong political action, not merely voting, the republican congress needs to be humbled and driven out of town, it's hands drenched in the blood of thousands upon thousands of gun deaths,
Amend the second murderous amendment. Stike down the amendment which runs contrary to universal morality and the will of God
Make this the Vietnam of this era.
By your numbers but also by the strong political action, not merely voting, the republican congress needs to be humbled and driven out of town, it's hands drenched in the blood of thousands upon thousands of gun deaths,
Amend the second murderous amendment. Stike down the amendment which runs contrary to universal morality and the will of God
23
Iced Teaparty - "Amend the second murderous amendment."
Yes, because the Volstead Act did so much to stop the manufacture and sale of alcohol within the United States. Vote for prohibition, remove all guns for a safer and sane America, repeal the 2nd Amendment, Americans have no right to defend themselves.
Yes, because the Volstead Act did so much to stop the manufacture and sale of alcohol within the United States. Vote for prohibition, remove all guns for a safer and sane America, repeal the 2nd Amendment, Americans have no right to defend themselves.
7
Committed to hypocrisy: We have the police to defend us. Americans have no right to murder each other, and Republicans have no right to facilitate murder.
3
Ed Henson, the gun merchant who sold the gunman his weapons, was just on CNN saying how sad he was about the attack and explaining he followed all Florida laws and said "If he didn't buy the guns from me, he would have bought them from someone else."
Probably. But 50 people are dead. "Somebody else would have sold him the guns if I didn't" is not much of an excuse, is it?
Probably. But 50 people are dead. "Somebody else would have sold him the guns if I didn't" is not much of an excuse, is it?
21
fastfurious - Yes, people should never be able to legally sell legal merchandise if some object to the objects being sold, that's freedom!
10
Mateen was at one time a correctional officer and then a "security professional" contracted to work for DHS. He was one of the exalted class who will always have access to guns, even under the strictest gun control regime.
The rest of us will be deprived of a constituitional right, though.
The rest of us will be deprived of a constituitional right, though.
4
America has become a prisoner to your so-called freedom.
1
Gun policing might be the answer but gun policing at federal level is a political non-starter. Seem like our politicians on both left and right use gun rights to get more votes - surely they understand the reality. Don't trust your politicians - they have no interest in solving the issue at hand. If there is any chance of better gun legislation it may be by forcing local legislation. Local jurisdictions can pass any gun laws as they please - but here is the catch. Jurisdications with restrictive guns laws should be able to file punitive suits against those jurisdictions where guns were bought - even if bought legally under local laws. That would force gun friendly jurisdictions to perform more comprehensive background checks.
3
R - "Jurisdications with restrictive guns laws should be able to file punitive suits against those jurisdictions where guns were bought - even if bought legally under local laws."
The Balkenization of America starts with this suggestion.
The Balkenization of America starts with this suggestion.
5
@Tired of Hypocrisy
Me too (tired of hypocrisy, that is)! Regarding gun laws (and a few other issues that vary widely from state to state, like health care, educational standards, which neighborhoods get adequate policing and street cleaning, etc., etc,), America has long since been Balkanized. Guns flow into states with strict gun laws from nearby states with lax restrictions, with the bloody results we read about daily.
I disagree with @R that "gun policing" (not a catchy phrase if you want to win the hearts and minds of gun owners) is a non-starter at the federal level. Congress passed the AWB (Assault Weapons Ban) in 1994, only to let it die in 2004. If Congress weren't so cowardly, if the AWB or some other version of it were in place, the Orlando killer wouldn't have been permitted to buy the weapon he used.
Since NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System) went online in 1998, the FBI has processed 225 million background checks for weapons purchases from FFLs. Again, if Congress hadn't bowed to pressure from the gun lobby, we would have universal background checks today.
The paranoia associated with firearms is at odds with the reality of today's world. Almost anyone, for a fee, can find out anything they want to know about your life: criminal records, if any; education; employment history; finances; personal history; and a lot more. Employers, whether large corporations or a family hiring a nanny use these services all the time.
Me too (tired of hypocrisy, that is)! Regarding gun laws (and a few other issues that vary widely from state to state, like health care, educational standards, which neighborhoods get adequate policing and street cleaning, etc., etc,), America has long since been Balkanized. Guns flow into states with strict gun laws from nearby states with lax restrictions, with the bloody results we read about daily.
I disagree with @R that "gun policing" (not a catchy phrase if you want to win the hearts and minds of gun owners) is a non-starter at the federal level. Congress passed the AWB (Assault Weapons Ban) in 1994, only to let it die in 2004. If Congress weren't so cowardly, if the AWB or some other version of it were in place, the Orlando killer wouldn't have been permitted to buy the weapon he used.
Since NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System) went online in 1998, the FBI has processed 225 million background checks for weapons purchases from FFLs. Again, if Congress hadn't bowed to pressure from the gun lobby, we would have universal background checks today.
The paranoia associated with firearms is at odds with the reality of today's world. Almost anyone, for a fee, can find out anything they want to know about your life: criminal records, if any; education; employment history; finances; personal history; and a lot more. Employers, whether large corporations or a family hiring a nanny use these services all the time.
Republicans at the state level in states where they control the legislature have passed multiple laws blocking the ability of local governments to pass any local gun laws more restrictive than the state's laws.
2
I wish that every member of Congress and the NRA were forced to sit through every single autopsy of the nightclub shootings victims.
31
Congress are horrible cowards... They're doing what they think they need to do to be reelected. If all Americans wanted gun control, we'd have gun control.
13
They would puke their guts out, but they would also still take the NRA money. You know it's true. Probity is not one of their shared qualifications.
5
@Chris: I have to believe that if all Americans who wanted gun control would simply step up to the ballot box, we'd have gun control.
3
Questions:
Was a 3 hrs delay by the police reasonable? Yes, the gunman stopped shooting, held hostages and "negotiated" with the police. But many wounded people must have bled out and died during the 3 hours wait. There was also a few hours delay by the police in Columbine.
One report stated a local policeman worked the nightclub guard. How did the gunman get past him?
Was a 3 hrs delay by the police reasonable? Yes, the gunman stopped shooting, held hostages and "negotiated" with the police. But many wounded people must have bled out and died during the 3 hours wait. There was also a few hours delay by the police in Columbine.
One report stated a local policeman worked the nightclub guard. How did the gunman get past him?
4
I am appalled by the anti-Islamic tone here.
To celebrate diversity means to celebrate our differences, including tenets of Islam that some find objectionable.
America is a big place. There is room here for everyone.
To celebrate diversity means to celebrate our differences, including tenets of Islam that some find objectionable.
America is a big place. There is room here for everyone.
11
So what you are saying is that America should start accepting totalitarian ideologies? Because, if you take its 'religion' title away, that's what remains: an ideology that wants to control all aspects of human life and won't tolerate diversions. Sounds cozy.
6
Been past Trump Tower lately? Police there with assault weapons. Cozy.
7
If we made purchasing the ammunition used for AR-15s and other similar weapons as hard to get as an abortion in Mississippi, that really would save lives.
49
Patheticism is what we have running loose in the United States. Loose canons walk among us most any where. These are the crazed people who will use most any reason to maim and kill innocents. They belong in asylums (Mainstreaming began during Reagan's era). Prisons are often used now to warehouse some of them. Most walk among us! Most anyone has been welcome to our country. This philosophy has widening cracks in it. My heritage meant people immigrating who made the United States stronger. Christianity was talked about without the hush that atheists are attempting to instill most anywhere. People sat with neighbors on their front porches. Kids played with impunity most any where on their big city blocks.
Argue my point all you wish. My actual point is that things get far worse. Without Christ we are ALL lost. Some of us neglect our religion, but we know what works. Killing others and destroying most anything in the name of serving someone called a god is poisonous. To think that doing such evil deeds will grant these perpetrators a heaven is very sick thinking that comes from generational brain washing. Batten down your hatches and bow to the One and only true God.
Argue my point all you wish. My actual point is that things get far worse. Without Christ we are ALL lost. Some of us neglect our religion, but we know what works. Killing others and destroying most anything in the name of serving someone called a god is poisonous. To think that doing such evil deeds will grant these perpetrators a heaven is very sick thinking that comes from generational brain washing. Batten down your hatches and bow to the One and only true God.
2
FBI should have keep vigil on Mateen if he was on suspected list.
7
Which one of the hundreds of gods worshipped on earth is the true one?
4
If our intelligence services weren't so busy collecting all the calls/texts/web browsing of all 330 million Americans (and hundreds of millions more overseas), perhaps they would be able to focus their already considerable resources on those statistically more likely to commit crimes, like this terrorist (young, male, Islamic, trips to Saudi Arabia, talk of martyrdom). They are collecting so much data right now they can't possibly prevent what they should be able to.
We saw this on 9/11, Boston, Orlando, and countless other occasions. We can conduct surveillance effectively without infringing on the rights of everyone. 49 Latino gays are dead because our intelligence services are busy trying to vacuum up the entire internet and assist the DEA in drug prosecutions (among other failures). Email your senator and let them know we need to change how we do our surveillance.
We saw this on 9/11, Boston, Orlando, and countless other occasions. We can conduct surveillance effectively without infringing on the rights of everyone. 49 Latino gays are dead because our intelligence services are busy trying to vacuum up the entire internet and assist the DEA in drug prosecutions (among other failures). Email your senator and let them know we need to change how we do our surveillance.
11
About guns in America, some pointed out that the same thing happened in Paris, where there are stricter gun rules. Well, not quite the same... If one wants to make a fair comparison one should also observe that to do the Bataclan massacre Isis had to organize a cell with multiple terrorist involved in a coordinated way. This is something that in principle may be prevented with good intelligence. In Orlando, the act was carried out by a single deranged individual, as it has happened already in so many other cases. It is easier here than in other countries for Isis to be successful by playing on individual mental illness. Something much harder to control and prevent. ISIS does not need to organize a terrorist operation to strike in the US. It can just tune in the news and claim responsibility. And if the NRA's politicians - like Donald Trump - are opposing even the most obvious restrictions (people with a past of violence, those under FBI watch for potential terrorism, etc.) then we are really defenseless.
14
The nra existed for 140 years. Progressive politically correct polarization has existed for about 10. Mass murders under obama are at 15. By far more than any other president. It's not just access to guns that is problem. Our society has been polarized and people made to feel disenfranchised. If Obama accepted other points of view other than his own, people would feel listened to.
Obama is responsible for Osama bin Laden death despite being 10,000 miles away. For stocks going higher, gas prices lower, unemployment down, smaller deficits. I'm not one to blame him for everything, but somethings changed under obama and it's not that gun laws got looser, or the nra was born.
Obama is responsible for Osama bin Laden death despite being 10,000 miles away. For stocks going higher, gas prices lower, unemployment down, smaller deficits. I'm not one to blame him for everything, but somethings changed under obama and it's not that gun laws got looser, or the nra was born.
2
The men who participated in the Bataclan massacre got their guns in Belgium where an underground market in weapons is big. That is where militants live and buy their guns.
1
Make no mistake, it's a serious tragedy any time another human being takes the life of another human being! With every truth of my faith, hope and love for humanity. I sincerely hope that all human beings will take this time to understand the urgent need for every human being to honestly ask themselves before pointing fingers at groups of people ,for the actions of another human being is not only stereotyping , however, it is racism in and of itself! Einstein said it best! " We can not solve a problem with the same thinking that created it." Guns don't kill, people who are not trained and mentally equipped as a professional in terms of the meaning of the right to bear arms and Equal protection of the law! Its a travesty of the united States Constitution and the premise of the pledge of allegiance. One nation under God!
Federal law prohibits the purchase and possession of firearms and ammunition by persons who have been convicted in any court of a “misdemeanor crime of domestic violence” and/or who are subject to certain domestic violence protective orders. Perhaps his wife had not obtained an order of protection. While court orders may provide some level of protection, an order does not prevent further violence. Domestic violence victims often do not seek protective orders out of fear that doing so will further anger the abuser and place the victim at additional risk of harm.
8
Certainly people have a right to arms for personal protection. Separating out those who demand firepower way in excess of the basic for much more intense scrutiny seems reasonable.
You can buy aspirin over the counter. For stronger meds you need a prescription. For heavy duty drugs, you go triplicate, and better have a good reason for wanting them. Why not apply the same license tiers for guns? With appropriate fees for an in depth background/investigation level? And appropriate lead times for taking possession? With public safety in mind, 1 year doesn’t seem unreasonable for procuring a top tier dangerous weapon. It’s not gun control, it’s common sense. Then another license/ taxes for ammunition and limits on quantity purchased.
You can buy aspirin over the counter. For stronger meds you need a prescription. For heavy duty drugs, you go triplicate, and better have a good reason for wanting them. Why not apply the same license tiers for guns? With appropriate fees for an in depth background/investigation level? And appropriate lead times for taking possession? With public safety in mind, 1 year doesn’t seem unreasonable for procuring a top tier dangerous weapon. It’s not gun control, it’s common sense. Then another license/ taxes for ammunition and limits on quantity purchased.
17
As with 9/11, radical Islam has used our own resources against us, exposing weaknesses. In 9/11 it was our own commercial aircraft, the cockpits of which were unprotected. In Orlando, it was ludicrously open and legal access to military weapons. We fixed the first problem. Are we willing to fix the second?
33
The VAST majority of gun violence isn't done with military weapons. Just FYI. Banning them wouldn't even reduce gun violence by 1%.
6
Chris, and the vast majority of plane flights are safe, and were so, before 9/11. Questioner's argument stands.
4
The AR15 is not a military weapon. Not one soldier anywhere in the world has ever used the AR15
4
Trump who believes everything is about him, is a blight on America. I'm embarrassed that he even thinks he can speak for a majority of people in this country. All I see is an angry orange blob
36
@Maggie, Visit any town in fly-over country—any town outside the DC/NY bubble and then tell me what the majority of Americans think. I feel you have it completely wrong.
21
He could have done the same damage with a rental truck by plowing through a wall, or perhaps more. Should we ban trucks?
Until we rid America of a culture of hate brought here by an ultra left-wing administration bent on destroying America, we will never again be same in our own home.
Until we rid America of a culture of hate brought here by an ultra left-wing administration bent on destroying America, we will never again be same in our own home.
15
Specious argument. In Germany, guns are restricted to hunting, so single-shot rifles are allowed. No rational person wants an automatic rifle like an AR15.
17
The AR15 he used was not 'automatic,' it was 'semi-automatic.' You can buy a huge array of rifles that will fire with large clips that look nothing like an AR15. All this arguments does is prove that you are listening to things that have no basis in fact.
5
It's time to marginalize and ignore the "guns everywhere" sycophants. Gun owners need to face the fact that they created this mess: NRA/gun industry extremism and complete market saturation. Hate, on its own, is not deadly. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, such is living in a free society. However, our lack of any oversight as to who is buying guns, is costing us dearly.
Thankfully, even Trump isn't a "true believer" (despite the NRA clinging to him with a death grip) of the 2A and change is coming.
Thankfully, even Trump isn't a "true believer" (despite the NRA clinging to him with a death grip) of the 2A and change is coming.
6
And now we know the terrorist/mass murderer travelled to Saudi Arabia twice. Coincidence? I don't think so. This tragedy brings into focus several themes that are confronting our country: the ongoing hatred and discrimination against members of the LGBTQ community, the easy availability of assault weapons, and the increasing amount of homegrown Islamic terrorism (see Mpls, Boston, Chattanooga, San Bernardino, and Orlando to name a few). We need to ban assault weapons, continue speaking up for the LGBT community - and figure out how to stop this venomous form of Islam - which is widely exported by Saudi Arabia.
25
A direct outcome of the 13 year war on Sunnis in the ME by the West, much of it undeclared. Blowback of the nastiest and most predictable sort is here to stay.
7
We need to dispose of the wrong and dangerous notion that the government will protect us. The government can't ensure our health, stop crime, defeat poverty, fund our retirements, feed us, keep us safe, or achieve any of the other tasks they claim to be perfect at. We must take responsibility for these functions ourselves.
8
Yes, this might be true - if you are one of the millions of citizens who relentlessly whine about "the government" but don't even get off your butts to vote or participate in governing this nation. Read the constitution: WE are the government; you and me and millions of others.
The "government" is not some mysterious force that lives in a place called Foggy Bottom. It is us. When you say "We must take responsibility for these functions ourselves" you are absolutely right because WE are the government. And what are you doing to create the government you seek? Do you vote? Are you active in local, state and national politics? What responsibility for functioning government are you actually taking?
What we as a country really need to dispose of is this ridiculous notion that government falls down on us like rain and that if we don't have an umbrella, it's not our fault. In a country where slightly under 50% of eligible voters don't bother to register to vote and only roughly half of those who do manage to drag themselves off the couch on voting day, do you wonder why you complain about a phantom government which really IS a phantom government consisting only of about 25% of our populace?
Stop whining; get involved.
The "government" is not some mysterious force that lives in a place called Foggy Bottom. It is us. When you say "We must take responsibility for these functions ourselves" you are absolutely right because WE are the government. And what are you doing to create the government you seek? Do you vote? Are you active in local, state and national politics? What responsibility for functioning government are you actually taking?
What we as a country really need to dispose of is this ridiculous notion that government falls down on us like rain and that if we don't have an umbrella, it's not our fault. In a country where slightly under 50% of eligible voters don't bother to register to vote and only roughly half of those who do manage to drag themselves off the couch on voting day, do you wonder why you complain about a phantom government which really IS a phantom government consisting only of about 25% of our populace?
Stop whining; get involved.
5
Another question . . . why do we call this guy a "suspect"? It's not like he's going to trial so we shouldn't pre-judge his guilt or innocence, because he's dead and he's not going to trial. It's not like scores of people didn't see him blazing away, not like the police didn't see him jump through the hole they punched in the wall and come out shooting. We don't call John Wilkes Booth the "suspected" murderer of Abraham Lincoln or Lee Harvey Oswald the "suspected" murder of John Kennedy, and neither of them went to trial to get the transformation of "suspect" or "accused" to actual murderer. So what's with the "suspect" appellation?
9
Does this club have a security? And, what were they doing during the massacre? It seems to me quite an "accomplishment" for a gunman to kill 49 people. I hope the security did not hide under the tables but confronted the gunman. Thus far, I heard only one guy confronted him.
I know it seems a little erratic to talk about the security guards, but believe that they (if existing) could have done their job better, based on the number of the victims.
I have been in an army, though a foreign one, but know that if there is an active shooter, there is not much time until you pull out your gun and shoot at him/her.
I know it seems a little erratic to talk about the security guards, but believe that they (if existing) could have done their job better, based on the number of the victims.
I have been in an army, though a foreign one, but know that if there is an active shooter, there is not much time until you pull out your gun and shoot at him/her.
2
They had a security guard. It would be like Barney Fife trying to kill a whole Seal team.
7
Trump doesn't know Orlando was not foriegn invasion. He wants us to to go war with a billion Muslims over something an Ameican did
26
the left doesn't know Mateen pledges allegiance to ISIS and was inspired by ISIS
13
@Robert Weller,
Man, don't even go there. That's not even a drop in the bucket of things Trump doesn't know and isn't capable of understanding.
6-13-16@4:10 pm
Man, don't even go there. That's not even a drop in the bucket of things Trump doesn't know and isn't capable of understanding.
6-13-16@4:10 pm
16
Muslim isn't a country. Sorry. trying to be smart doesn't work for you.
( Hint war on drugs is also not about a foreign country).
( Hint war on drugs is also not about a foreign country).
11
I'm a 71 year old woman with a bad ankle. The last time I got on an airplane I was "selected" for an extra-intense search of my person and my belongings. Also I have not shot anyone, ever, but apparently a lot of people think we could solve this terrorism problem by taking my guns away.
It would seem that I am a much more dangerous person than anyone knew....how about if we leave little old ladies with handguns alone and go after Islamic radicals?
Oh wait, Islam is not the problem, I know this because Hillary Clinton taught me this. She said, "Let’s be clear: Islam is not our adversary. Muslims are peaceful and tolerant people and have nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism."
Got that?
It would seem that I am a much more dangerous person than anyone knew....how about if we leave little old ladies with handguns alone and go after Islamic radicals?
Oh wait, Islam is not the problem, I know this because Hillary Clinton taught me this. She said, "Let’s be clear: Islam is not our adversary. Muslims are peaceful and tolerant people and have nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism."
Got that?
28
Could you give me your source for "Muslims are peaceful and tolerant people and have nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism?" Though I am not a big Hillary fan, I strongly doubt that she said that. It sounds like another one of those things Donald Trump says and then later says he was misquoted on -- or taken out of context.
9
So you haven't shot anyone....yet. How many times do we need to hear the claim that "he was a good guy with a gun" the day prior to yet another massacre?
Providing guns to anyone with cash-on-hand is a national disgrace. And our "faith-based" system of gun ownership has to change. Training PRIOR to purchase, universal background checks and removing them from domestic situation is a start.
Gun owners and the gun industry had their chance to clean house, yet merely offered "more guns" as the response to Sandy Hook and every massacre since. It's time to marginalize and ignore those that offer nothing. They're a minority benefiting from our lax gun laws and there is no amount of bloodshed that will change their minds.
Providing guns to anyone with cash-on-hand is a national disgrace. And our "faith-based" system of gun ownership has to change. Training PRIOR to purchase, universal background checks and removing them from domestic situation is a start.
Gun owners and the gun industry had their chance to clean house, yet merely offered "more guns" as the response to Sandy Hook and every massacre since. It's time to marginalize and ignore those that offer nothing. They're a minority benefiting from our lax gun laws and there is no amount of bloodshed that will change their minds.
6
So you’re a 71 year old woman with a bad ankle and a gun? What happens when you’re an 85 year old woman with Alzheimer’s or dementia and a gun? The vast majority of gun deaths in America aren’t from terrorists; they’re from suicides, accidents, and crime. Be prepared to be an 85 year old wrestling with a perp on the way to grabbing her gun, or an 85 year old who shoots her grandson because in her sleep she thought he was a burglar; or an 85 year old in pain who decides it’s easier to end it all. At some point, it would be advisable to turn in your gun for a good, large dog and an alarm system and a cell phone.
6
I am so sick of the word "shooter." It makes these people sound like they're playing a video game. They should be referred to as "mass murderers" or "killers."
21
If you wanna know what the DNC has planned for stopping gun violence, look no further than Hillary saying she has a plan for lone wolves and assault rifles... which are responsible for less than 1% of gun violence. She's unserious and anyone that claims otherwise is being willfully naive or dishonest. We don't have politicians in America that are capable of dealing with gun violence... which comes as a relief to gun owners everywhere.
7
1% of 30,000 firearm deaths is 3,000 and you think that's an acceptable for a first world country?
Honestly, gun owners created this mess by abdicating responsibility to the gun industry. And the industry has only one motivation: PROFIT.
Honestly, gun owners created this mess by abdicating responsibility to the gun industry. And the industry has only one motivation: PROFIT.
6
@Chris US ex-pat
"We don't have politicians in America that are capable of dealing with gun violence... " Couldn't agree more!
" . . . which comes as a relief to gun owners everywhere."
Is governmental, political, societal abdication of responsibility for curbing gun violence (an adjunct of the proliferation of guns everywhere, all the time) really a "relief" to gun owners? There goes that beautiful idea of "the good guys with guns" we've been told to buy into!
Thanks for the insight
"We don't have politicians in America that are capable of dealing with gun violence... " Couldn't agree more!
" . . . which comes as a relief to gun owners everywhere."
Is governmental, political, societal abdication of responsibility for curbing gun violence (an adjunct of the proliferation of guns everywhere, all the time) really a "relief" to gun owners? There goes that beautiful idea of "the good guys with guns" we've been told to buy into!
Thanks for the insight
As horrific as this is for millions of Americans, Trump wants it to be worse. He wants you to hate more. He wants to turn the President into the enemy.
The worst aspects of what ails this country is what Trump feeds on: hate. Without hate, he is nothing.
The worst aspects of what ails this country is what Trump feeds on: hate. Without hate, he is nothing.
33
You may want to examine what democrats do.
Every incident involves hate according to them, and guess what? Democrats are here to save you from hate. I'd suggest there's less hate out there than democrats want you to believe. There's less threat of terrorism than republicans want you to believe. We are all pawns in their respective game of spin.
Every incident involves hate according to them, and guess what? Democrats are here to save you from hate. I'd suggest there's less hate out there than democrats want you to believe. There's less threat of terrorism than republicans want you to believe. We are all pawns in their respective game of spin.
7
"Ha allies himself with ISIS." Wow. You watch too much Fox News - or listen to Trumpian lies too much. This is getting insane when people make these sorts of comments. It is not as if they are having a discussion. It is yelling your wildest fears without thought of what you are actually saying.
10
Boy, you live on a weird planet.
I'm amazed that this person was interviewed by the FBI 3 times and was previously on a terror watch list yet he was able to purchase guns. I don't want to take away your right to carry a gun, only for those who should not have it.
This makes no sense whatsoever.
One should not have to go to a club to dance and have fun and have to ever think that some deranged individual will come in and shoot up the place.
This makes no sense whatsoever.
One should not have to go to a club to dance and have fun and have to ever think that some deranged individual will come in and shoot up the place.
11
Our government is criminally negligent. We have no recourse. We are forever victims, playthings of the rich and infamous.
6
I am a liberal democrat. I don't want to take away any guns. I don't want to repeal the second amendment. It makes us unique in the world. I have friends & family who would disown me suggesting something so outrageous and unnecessary, but I fear this is the direction we are headed with more "homegrown" violence as the two sides butt heads.
Both pros AND cons in this debate are responsible for the "gridlock". Extreme gun opponents go WAY too far. Extreme gun advocates won't give in on anything.
We should find middle ground that is acceptable to both sides (within reason).
We need a "Switzerland" of "Gun safety". A safe "place" where fair, moderate and open minded individuals from BOTH sides can discuss REALISTIC compromises. We also will need mediation.
There is no way to solve this issue without compromises on both sides. But we need clear headed, unbiased individuals to have these discussions. Gun manufacture CEO's/owners and NRA leaders must be excluded. Gun manufacturing employees and NRA members would be welcome and encouraged.
We need people in this debate who will have minimal impact from the outcome. Obviously there must be consideration for profits and economic impact as part of the discussion.
There must be a way for both sides to calm the heck down and at least try to find a solution that will make us "safer" (not SAFE. Only asking for safer. We can never be completely safe) and not "feel safer" but real numbers showing we are safer.
Both pros AND cons in this debate are responsible for the "gridlock". Extreme gun opponents go WAY too far. Extreme gun advocates won't give in on anything.
We should find middle ground that is acceptable to both sides (within reason).
We need a "Switzerland" of "Gun safety". A safe "place" where fair, moderate and open minded individuals from BOTH sides can discuss REALISTIC compromises. We also will need mediation.
There is no way to solve this issue without compromises on both sides. But we need clear headed, unbiased individuals to have these discussions. Gun manufacture CEO's/owners and NRA leaders must be excluded. Gun manufacturing employees and NRA members would be welcome and encouraged.
We need people in this debate who will have minimal impact from the outcome. Obviously there must be consideration for profits and economic impact as part of the discussion.
There must be a way for both sides to calm the heck down and at least try to find a solution that will make us "safer" (not SAFE. Only asking for safer. We can never be completely safe) and not "feel safer" but real numbers showing we are safer.
12
When both the president and a presidential candidate think Australia's action is the way to go you aren't going to get cooperation from gun owners.
4
Only a minority of gun owners support the NRA/gun industry extremist view. Thankfully, their Trump endorsement and the decline of the GOP will be the final nail in the coffin. And since gun owners have relied solely on the NRA for advocacy, so goes their place at the discussion table.
As it is, the NRA is the third rail during this election. Nobody is taking their calls and they're spending millions losing court challenges.
As it is, the NRA is the third rail during this election. Nobody is taking their calls and they're spending millions losing court challenges.
5
Just once I'd like to see a gun dealer who sold the guns express regret.
19
Ok, and then what?
5
Brock: Nothing! but the liberals sure would feel good. What else matters?
8
Constitutional amendments should be few and far between. That being said, it is time to repeal the Second Amendment.
16
ISIS loves you. Perfect use terrorist acts to take away our freedoms.
8
@Jacobi- That's what they want. Disarm citizens so criminals can rob, attack and kill us.
5
Marc, that is entirely your right. The Constitution comes with clear instructions on how to modify it.
First, you have a new Amendment written. Then you send it off to be approved by the House and Senate.
After that, it goes to the States for ratification. It requires a 3/4th majority to pass.
NOTE: the House and Senate are majority Republican. 33 of 50 States are red states. Remember, it is not a "popular vote", but a vote to ratify WITHIN each state.
Good luck to you.
First, you have a new Amendment written. Then you send it off to be approved by the House and Senate.
After that, it goes to the States for ratification. It requires a 3/4th majority to pass.
NOTE: the House and Senate are majority Republican. 33 of 50 States are red states. Remember, it is not a "popular vote", but a vote to ratify WITHIN each state.
Good luck to you.
2
Oh enough already from the armchair quarterback crowd!!
(1) Seems like the entire 26% of the US that want to ban all guns have weighed in here. 26% - not gonna happen
(2) Screaming and shouting that someone should have known that the guy was 3 bubbles off -- yelling about domestic abuse and things the guy said
* The ex-wife did NOT file with a court about the claimed abuse. There is NO COURT RECORD. (And yeah domestic abuse - court ruling -will keep someone from buying a gun,) THere was NO RECORD OF IT
* Can't ban people from doing constitutionally protected stuff (like buying guns) because they say things others do not like
(3) NO RECORDS of mental illness -none.
(4) All this howling about 'but but but he had been on the FBI or Homeland watch list".....
* They had interviewed him - and a whole lot of other people - because they had had casual contact with someone who went off to Syria to be a jihadist
* Can't ban people from doing constitutionally protected stuff (like buying a gun) because of some 'secret' list like a Watch List. They would have to be told they are on the Watch List and allowed to challenge having their name on it. It is called "Due Process"
* Those secret Watch Lists and No Fly lists are HUGE -as in 20000, 40000 and even more people on them.
Wanna pay for enough FBI agents to keep every single person ever interviewed or on some list of tens of thousands of people under surveillance for years?
Guess you all want a police state..
(1) Seems like the entire 26% of the US that want to ban all guns have weighed in here. 26% - not gonna happen
(2) Screaming and shouting that someone should have known that the guy was 3 bubbles off -- yelling about domestic abuse and things the guy said
* The ex-wife did NOT file with a court about the claimed abuse. There is NO COURT RECORD. (And yeah domestic abuse - court ruling -will keep someone from buying a gun,) THere was NO RECORD OF IT
* Can't ban people from doing constitutionally protected stuff (like buying guns) because they say things others do not like
(3) NO RECORDS of mental illness -none.
(4) All this howling about 'but but but he had been on the FBI or Homeland watch list".....
* They had interviewed him - and a whole lot of other people - because they had had casual contact with someone who went off to Syria to be a jihadist
* Can't ban people from doing constitutionally protected stuff (like buying a gun) because of some 'secret' list like a Watch List. They would have to be told they are on the Watch List and allowed to challenge having their name on it. It is called "Due Process"
* Those secret Watch Lists and No Fly lists are HUGE -as in 20000, 40000 and even more people on them.
Wanna pay for enough FBI agents to keep every single person ever interviewed or on some list of tens of thousands of people under surveillance for years?
Guess you all want a police state..
21
Stricter oversight on gun purchases and ownership is hardly "a police state".
Honestly, the "more guns" crowd make the point that they need stricter oversight, when the mere act of a background check is equated with "police state".
Honestly, the "more guns" crowd make the point that they need stricter oversight, when the mere act of a background check is equated with "police state".
6
Try reading comprehension 101
The reference to a police state was AFTER the paragraphs about surveilling thousands and thousands of people who are on 'secret' lists
ANd yeah that would easily take another 800,000 -1,000,000 FBI agents to track everything 40000 or 50000 people do
Secret lists - surveillance = police state
PS I'm a Quaker but have the sense to now that the political support for abolishing guns does not exist and that secret lists an surveillance of thousands is not the answer
The reference to a police state was AFTER the paragraphs about surveilling thousands and thousands of people who are on 'secret' lists
ANd yeah that would easily take another 800,000 -1,000,000 FBI agents to track everything 40000 or 50000 people do
Secret lists - surveillance = police state
PS I'm a Quaker but have the sense to now that the political support for abolishing guns does not exist and that secret lists an surveillance of thousands is not the answer
4
as a powerless individual, facing relentless confusion in their mind about loyalty and which behavior 'plans' to embrace, disdain, follow or exterminate, one must regard these rare individuals as truly mentally unable to share the love of life (and tolerance to others) that creates a truly safe society. the tipping point within their mind must be be very close to teetering into mind numbing controlled rage, that, once embarked upon is essentailly a suicide mission. (ala Martyrdom and other Islamic treats). this was yet another weak willed man, burdened with child support, wife support, social demands and no real parents that clearly (or deliberately) were detached from him. all the talk about 'communication' and the benefits of same, fall on deaf ears once these individuals have embrace the 'great jihad' that now inexorably infiltrates our global awareness. find the root of this, and deprive it the sustenance it needs to remain alive and well.
2
How sad it is that our President refers to this as "homegrown" terrorism, once again laying the blame on Americans, instead of on the perverted interpretation of Islam that inspires this violence. Yes, I agree on the need to ban assault weapons and increase background checks. But our Commander in Chief seems completely unable to accept that ISIS and others are inspiring and motivating U.S. Muslim citizens to attack and kill us. Now that we have had Fort Hood, California and Orlando slayings, why does he cling to deflecting motivation away from the radical Islamic terrorists who pledge loyalty to ISIS before killing fellow Americans? "Home grown" means we are culpable for planting the seed inside of them. The seed is planted by ISIS propaganda and exploitation.
19
Daesh invented violence and mental illness? There's always somebody to "inspire." Will this inspire us to send 20,000 of out troops into another snake pit because you don't like whatever platitudes a president has to come up with?
4
In case you haven’t checked the list of actual mass murders occurring in America during the last few years, the vast majority of them were not committed by Muslims. They were committed by disaffected white American males: Columbine, Sandy Hook, etc.. You might wish to see someone about that short term memory loss.
3
This is not the first time and sadly this will not be the last time. In Math this is called a Poisson random process involving 300 million guns and unlimited ammunition.
So far most republicans and many Americans have no problem continuing this random process into the future.
Every criminal is a law abiding citizen till the moment he is not. Newtown school, Aurora theater, Charlaston church, Virgenia tech ... all perpetrated by presumed law abiding citizens. As long as there are 300 million guns and unlimited ammunition this Poisson random process continue.
I pray God to give wisdom to the insane to change some of the variables in this random process for good.
So far most republicans and many Americans have no problem continuing this random process into the future.
Every criminal is a law abiding citizen till the moment he is not. Newtown school, Aurora theater, Charlaston church, Virgenia tech ... all perpetrated by presumed law abiding citizens. As long as there are 300 million guns and unlimited ammunition this Poisson random process continue.
I pray God to give wisdom to the insane to change some of the variables in this random process for good.
18
There were just as many guns per person in 2004, yet Obama, who is responsible for low gas prices, the stock market and Osama, has no role in mass shootings. Must be nice to only be held accountable for good things. If gas prices go to 4 bucks in 4 months, it will be greedy oil.
Guns, isis, etc, all gop and 0 dem. Awesome analysis
Guns, isis, etc, all gop and 0 dem. Awesome analysis
9
Yes I agree with you 100% that you made right analysis: Because there are as many guns per person now as in 2004, Obama has no responsibility for the continued mass shooting. I agree with you that fire was already there and he was blocked from putting it off. I also agree with you in commending his efforts on trying to change some of the variables in my above mentioned Poisson random process to reduce mass shootings. I criticize republicans for blocking his efforts and in effect perpetuating this deadly random process.
Talking on unrelated topics like economy, gas prices is irrelevant for the current topic. I believe anybody initiate wrong topic is plain lame and just trying to evade the current topic !!.
Talking on unrelated topics like economy, gas prices is irrelevant for the current topic. I believe anybody initiate wrong topic is plain lame and just trying to evade the current topic !!.
5
Is the objective of an FBI investigation to punish someone when they pull the trigger, or is it to prevent the trigger from being pulled? Why not just tell the guy that the FBI is investigating him. That way, if he has any thoughts about pulling a trigger, he will likely think twice before doing so.
2
This would only help if the person of interest has fear of punishment etc. Most of these terrorists planning to die anyway.
4
Ed, but then you might expose the undercover agents or sources. See the NYT article on Newburgh, entrapment, etc. a few days ago.
3
So I've been thinking about this and what happened in Chicago last weekend -62 people shot. The environment that lead to the Chicago shootings was intentionally created by racist leaders to foster violence in black neighborhoods with the same systemic approach as the Orlando shooter. But because it's a more complex system in Chicago and the actual finger that pulls the trigger is attached to a different individual, it's not seen as equally horrific as a terrorist attack. But it's really the same and kinda worse because it's part of a widely planned and carefully executed system designed over hundreds of years, not one guy. ISIS is doing a great job of fostering violence across the global, but we've been doing this domestically for hundreds of years, what's been created in black neighborhoods is the envy of ISIS, they'll never inspire the amount of killing we've cultivated in our own people.
It's all horrible, but black kids have no advocacy structure like gays and their path to being the victims of violence is more complicated than one dude with an AR, otherwise we'd have to fly all our flags at half staff every Monday morning. While there is no metric for comparing the two, it bothers me that one dramatic act gets more attention and probably more a valuable response then what happens every weekend In our hoods.
It's all horrible, but black kids have no advocacy structure like gays and their path to being the victims of violence is more complicated than one dude with an AR, otherwise we'd have to fly all our flags at half staff every Monday morning. While there is no metric for comparing the two, it bothers me that one dramatic act gets more attention and probably more a valuable response then what happens every weekend In our hoods.
13
Making speeches about shootings and gun control will not solve the problem. Shootings will go on. And Congress may even vote on another war.
4
ICongressional Republicans will soon call for thoughts, prayers and a moment of silence if they haven't already. I don't want thoughts, prayers or silence. I want a marching band to pound on their drums and blast music from their trumpets and trombones until they actually do something about the weak gun laws in this country. Silence is for cowards and gun industry toadies. Make noise instead.
13
We need to ban guns the way they do in France and Belgium, and then these massacres won't happen here. Oh wait, what was it that happened in France in Belgium again?
17
So you're saying that being able to buy military-type weaponry with ZERO oversight (via legal, private sale for example) is A-OK? That the US endures a mass shooting on a daily basis and we should do absolutely nothing?
Firearms are the only consumer product that lacks any oversight whatsoever. Thankfully, the NRA endorsement of Trump (who's not even a true believer) and the demise of the GOP will remove the last obstruction to change. Gun extremists have relied on the NRA as their sole advocate and now they're the third rail this election cycle.
Firearms are the only consumer product that lacks any oversight whatsoever. Thankfully, the NRA endorsement of Trump (who's not even a true believer) and the demise of the GOP will remove the last obstruction to change. Gun extremists have relied on the NRA as their sole advocate and now they're the third rail this election cycle.
2
Here it's a way of life. In France and Belgium it is an aberration.
4
Donald Trump says we're "at war" with fundamentalist Islam. Why would he be in favor of selling assault rifles to people we're at war with? I think it's hard to be any softer on terrorism than being ok with terrorists being able to legally assemble an armory on your home soil.
11
It was the left who made Pulse a gun-free zone. It was the left who disarmed the victims but not the shooter.
Why would the Democrats oppose selling weapons to people at war with ISIS?
Why would the Democrats oppose selling weapons to people at war with ISIS?
9
So now the NRA/extremists think we should accessorize with a bazooka or AR whenever we head to a nightclub? As it is, we're supposed to have our elementary schools and churches resemble military bases, with armed guards and kevlar.
Thankfully, the NRA is in it's death throes and the extremists are fully dependent upon them to advocate for "guns everywhere". Their Trump endorsement has been the icing on the cake. Good riddance!
Thankfully, the NRA is in it's death throes and the extremists are fully dependent upon them to advocate for "guns everywhere". Their Trump endorsement has been the icing on the cake. Good riddance!
1
The NRA is in "death throes"? whoever told you that?
Membership is up 15-30% -- they are more active than ever -- people joining ALL THE TIME.
Who said they were in "death throes"?
Membership is up 15-30% -- they are more active than ever -- people joining ALL THE TIME.
Who said they were in "death throes"?
2
Listening to Gov.Rick Scott and A.G Pam Bondi made me sick to my stomach. They have done nothing to help the gay community and are A rated by the NRA. They never met an assault weapon they didn't like or a gay person they tried to ignore. And no one from the media has called them out while interviewing them.
38
There is a two-faced lying hypocrisy afoot. The Republicans have helped stoke this monster and have obstructed the Federal Government being able to coordinate and control information on guns or individuals with protection orders and similar background problems by insisting this be the provenance of state government.
Trump is naked in his attempt to stoke fear and promote votes on the bodies of the dead.
The armies of the gun manufacturers and those brainwashed among them are in full tilt focused on the terrorist aspect of this incident while blatantly ignoring the role gun and ammunition access played in Sandy Hook, Aurora, and many other not related to any Islamic-terrorist link or group.
Trump is naked in his attempt to stoke fear and promote votes on the bodies of the dead.
The armies of the gun manufacturers and those brainwashed among them are in full tilt focused on the terrorist aspect of this incident while blatantly ignoring the role gun and ammunition access played in Sandy Hook, Aurora, and many other not related to any Islamic-terrorist link or group.
31
Killer was a registered democrat.
20
It is amazing how effective Today's modern weapons can be. In this case even in the hands of a Bi-Polar Mental Defective look at how easily he was able to butcher all those people. I'm sure the gun industry will be trying to work that reality into their advertising blitz after the dust settles from this mishap.
8
Another aspect of this story I would like to see looked into is the owner of the gun shop where the "gunman" purchased his guns.
The owner of that shop is reportedly a retired NYPD officer. While I have no doubt Florida rules (to the extent they exist) were followed in this sale, I have to say I am somewhat disturbed to know that my tax dollars, which provided the ultra generous pension & lifetime family health care this guy became entitled to at 40 or 45, were used to help him set up this operation. Aside from this current incident, we all know that many guns used to commit crimes in New York City come from down south (including Florida).
I know many NYC cops when they retire move to Florida or the Caribbean (though I once knew one who bought a B & B on Nantucket). I have often overhead them (including some very young ones) discussing where they plan to retire/what they plan to do (e.g., set up a scuba shop in the Caribbean) while they are standing around on security duty near the UN, where I live. Frankly, if we are going to continue to subsidize such cushy retirement setups (including some that end in the deaths of other New Yorkers), maybe it's time to think about attaching some strings to those benefits -- like perhaps no more free family healthcare for people who relocate out of state or requiring them to pay for it. I would also like to see NY state consider at least trying to tax some of the pension income of these out of state cop retirees.
The owner of that shop is reportedly a retired NYPD officer. While I have no doubt Florida rules (to the extent they exist) were followed in this sale, I have to say I am somewhat disturbed to know that my tax dollars, which provided the ultra generous pension & lifetime family health care this guy became entitled to at 40 or 45, were used to help him set up this operation. Aside from this current incident, we all know that many guns used to commit crimes in New York City come from down south (including Florida).
I know many NYC cops when they retire move to Florida or the Caribbean (though I once knew one who bought a B & B on Nantucket). I have often overhead them (including some very young ones) discussing where they plan to retire/what they plan to do (e.g., set up a scuba shop in the Caribbean) while they are standing around on security duty near the UN, where I live. Frankly, if we are going to continue to subsidize such cushy retirement setups (including some that end in the deaths of other New Yorkers), maybe it's time to think about attaching some strings to those benefits -- like perhaps no more free family healthcare for people who relocate out of state or requiring them to pay for it. I would also like to see NY state consider at least trying to tax some of the pension income of these out of state cop retirees.
10
So Police Officers should not be allowed to think about what they want to do in retirement, assuming Obama doesn't get them killed before then?
14
Advocating for lifetime taxation for a person even if they leave the jurisdiction of the tax? Denting earned benefits?
We know who the fascists are in this country and it isn't the conservatives.
We know who the fascists are in this country and it isn't the conservatives.
6
New York City cops are some of the highest paid public employees in the country -- often retiring in their 40s on six-figure "pensions." They don't even pay taxes on most of their retirement income if they stay in NY State, and if they are lucky enough to retire on account of "disability," as many make sure they do, their pension is exempt from both federal and state taxes for life. I realize there is little likelihood any of this money could be recouped through taxation, but there is also little likelihood NYC taxpayers will ever get relief from what they have to pay for the benefits of our uniformed "first responders." My point is basically this: finding out this guy bought his guns from the gun shop of a retired New York City detective is like adding insult to injury.
1
So this guy was on somebody's watch list and rather than keep an eye on him, investigate him, WATCH him, they let him kill people. WHY is the government wasting billions of dollars on Security Theater when they should be doing what they are supposed to do - investigate suspects and prevent acts like this?
12
Obama has all but emptied Gitmo. So as he releases genocidal murders on humanity - he wants to take guns from law-abiding citizens. Solid logic of course - especially since they are using fire, water and acid to kill people all over the world. But yes - the weather is our greatest threat...
4
If you can't pass a background check, you're hardly "law abiding".
And no civilian "needs" military-type weaponry. You want to play with a Bushmaster/M-16? Join the military.
But, honestly, the gun extremists saying that the "solution" is to have our schools, churches, nightclubs resemble military bases in Iraq provide the best evidence that gun sales and ownership needs stricter oversight. Clearly our "faith-based" system of responsibility is NOT working.
And no civilian "needs" military-type weaponry. You want to play with a Bushmaster/M-16? Join the military.
But, honestly, the gun extremists saying that the "solution" is to have our schools, churches, nightclubs resemble military bases in Iraq provide the best evidence that gun sales and ownership needs stricter oversight. Clearly our "faith-based" system of responsibility is NOT working.
1
The world has always been challenged and destroyed in large and small ways by people who love to hate, and by people drawn to manipulation, greed, and violence as quick solutions to complex social problems.
I read years ago that humans are not very agile or fast creatures, and our eyesight hearing, and sense of smell are not nearly as good as many animals. We don't even have fur to keep us warm. How did we survive as a species?
We stuck together in groups and protected the babies, children, women, and each other. We formed cooperative work groups to share our skills, resources, and care. We stood together to fend off those motivated by malignant aggression and an unquenchable passion for destruction.
The modern world is no different. We survive and win by uniting as a community, and we refuse to be divided and torn apart from each other, no matter how hard the hate- and war-mongers may try—for they will always be with us, and they will always try.
Orlando Strong!
I read years ago that humans are not very agile or fast creatures, and our eyesight hearing, and sense of smell are not nearly as good as many animals. We don't even have fur to keep us warm. How did we survive as a species?
We stuck together in groups and protected the babies, children, women, and each other. We formed cooperative work groups to share our skills, resources, and care. We stood together to fend off those motivated by malignant aggression and an unquenchable passion for destruction.
The modern world is no different. We survive and win by uniting as a community, and we refuse to be divided and torn apart from each other, no matter how hard the hate- and war-mongers may try—for they will always be with us, and they will always try.
Orlando Strong!
1
@PB,
Love vs hate. Love. Love. Love. I am Orlando. We are in this TOGETHER.
6-13-16@3:47 pm
Love vs hate. Love. Love. Love. I am Orlando. We are in this TOGETHER.
6-13-16@3:47 pm
1
1759 comments, the usual number give or take 1000 after a multiple killing at the hands of a - usually - male with one or more guns. After sampling the comments, listening to the endless discussion on NPR, and reading the boiler plate reply to my comment I return to a recommendation expressed by me each time.
No comments until some appropriate interval after the killing. No comments until the Times provides a fact table. No jump to state motive always difficult if not impossible to determine.
We were told at an early stage that this man was profoundly affected by seeing two males kiss. I believe it was his father who told us this. But apparently since the killer has a name that declares he may have been born Muslim, the possible importance of his fierce opposition to homosexuality is not even mentioned.
This complaint in vain I know, but so are a majority of the comments, on that the record is clear.
Dual citizen US SE
No comments until some appropriate interval after the killing. No comments until the Times provides a fact table. No jump to state motive always difficult if not impossible to determine.
We were told at an early stage that this man was profoundly affected by seeing two males kiss. I believe it was his father who told us this. But apparently since the killer has a name that declares he may have been born Muslim, the possible importance of his fierce opposition to homosexuality is not even mentioned.
This complaint in vain I know, but so are a majority of the comments, on that the record is clear.
Dual citizen US SE
5
Maybe ISIS, maybe not ISIS. Guns readily supplied by the NRA who doesn't care who buys the guns, as long as the money keeps flowing. There is no earthly reason for anyone outside of military personnel to own assault rifles. None.
28
First, there's no such thing as an assault rifle. It was invented to inflame the passions of people with no knowledge of firearms.
Second. The NRA and its members DO care who owns firearms because we have to live out here too. The NRA and its members do not want felons and the adjudicated mentally ill to own firearms.
Third. Civilians do not own military firearms and haven't been able to do so since 1934.
If you'd been in the military ( I have) you'd know the difference. A civilian rifle fires one bullet per trigger pull. A military rifle can fire 600 bullets per minute with one trigger pull.
Second. The NRA and its members DO care who owns firearms because we have to live out here too. The NRA and its members do not want felons and the adjudicated mentally ill to own firearms.
Third. Civilians do not own military firearms and haven't been able to do so since 1934.
If you'd been in the military ( I have) you'd know the difference. A civilian rifle fires one bullet per trigger pull. A military rifle can fire 600 bullets per minute with one trigger pull.
6
Why does it have to be all or nothing? Some people say no guns whatsoever, others say every citizen should be able to purchase whatever weapon they choose. There is a place for sensible gun safety legislation, such as bringing back the assault weapon ban. I fail to see why any sportsman or woman, or any citizen for that matter, needs to own a weapon originally developed for use in combat by the military. Own a handgun, fine, hunt with a rifle, fine, but assault weapons should go back on the restricted list they were on before. Those weapons give bad guys the ability to fire way too many rounds without reloading. No, that is not the perfect solution, but it is past time to do something.
13
To those who claim the 2nd amendment overrides all other considerations, I remind you that the preamble to the Constitution, stating its overall purpose, includes these words:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a
more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic
Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote
the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to
ourselves and our Posterity..."
It is high time that establishing justice, insuring domestic tranquility, and promoting the general welfare take precedence. My rights to live in such a society are guaranteed therein, and your right to own Human Assault Weapons infringes on my right. I shouldn't be scared to dance, worship, or to school because you want to establish an unneeded militia.
I'm fine with limited gun ownership, but that privilege should be regulated in the same manner as driving a car. It should require periodic education, an examination by a qualified professional to gain and maintain a license, and registering all guns to their rightful owner. It should require insurance against bodily injury to others. And we need regulations as to how to make guns safer. Seat belts are required. As should be electronic trigger locks to avoid the non-owner of the gun using it, such as a child.
So tell me, NRA, what about this commonsense approach don't you like. But you can't use the words "2nd amendment" in your answer.
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a
more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic
Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote
the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to
ourselves and our Posterity..."
It is high time that establishing justice, insuring domestic tranquility, and promoting the general welfare take precedence. My rights to live in such a society are guaranteed therein, and your right to own Human Assault Weapons infringes on my right. I shouldn't be scared to dance, worship, or to school because you want to establish an unneeded militia.
I'm fine with limited gun ownership, but that privilege should be regulated in the same manner as driving a car. It should require periodic education, an examination by a qualified professional to gain and maintain a license, and registering all guns to their rightful owner. It should require insurance against bodily injury to others. And we need regulations as to how to make guns safer. Seat belts are required. As should be electronic trigger locks to avoid the non-owner of the gun using it, such as a child.
So tell me, NRA, what about this commonsense approach don't you like. But you can't use the words "2nd amendment" in your answer.
30
How about enforcing the regulations that are currently in place first? Even a concealed carry permit holder can't bring a gun into a bar in Florida. That's one sensible law that was apparently overlooked by the shooter.
9
The states demanded the second amendment as well as the other amendments that make up the Bill Of Rights as protection against a federal government with the ability to dictate to the states and raise an army to enforce its will.
I'll cut you off before you can say it.
The NATIONAL guard is not the militia but is part of the federal government's army.
The founders rightly believed that we are always in danger from people who desire power over the citizens.
I'll cut you off before you can say it.
The NATIONAL guard is not the militia but is part of the federal government's army.
The founders rightly believed that we are always in danger from people who desire power over the citizens.
5
How about universal background checks? Currently private sales are do NOT require a background check or paper trail. They're the primary method that the industry profits by diverting guns to the illegal market.
It's time to end private sales. All sales go through a licensed, regularly audited FFL and are tracked from manufacture to final sale.
The only downside is that the gun industry profiteering would decline, hence the posts from those benefiting from status quo (private sellers, manufacturers, lobbyists and those unable to pass a background check).
It's time to end private sales. All sales go through a licensed, regularly audited FFL and are tracked from manufacture to final sale.
The only downside is that the gun industry profiteering would decline, hence the posts from those benefiting from status quo (private sellers, manufacturers, lobbyists and those unable to pass a background check).
I believe that the victims and the families of victims of such a shooting should have a legal cause of action against anyone who participated in putting an AR-15 assault rifle in the hands of this hate filled lunatic. This would include whoever manufactured, distributed or sold this weapon.
22
I believe that every gun control proponent is culpable both legally and financially. The made Pulse a gun-free zone, thus disarming the victims but not the shooter. They also prevented the victims from defending themselves.
5
Larry, Would you really feel safer if everyone drinking in the bar was carrying a loaded weapon? I believe that idea went out when Wyatt Earp cleaned up Dodge City.
5
Sure, all those nonexistent lefties in the Florida legislature made sure that Pulse was a gun free zone.
1
The shooter's weapon and ammunition performed exactly as designed. At least we know the manufacturers take pride in their work. Too bad there isn't a way to have these weapons fitted with a thingy that transponds a unique code that could be used to identify it, and then another thingy that would allow someone to disable the weapon. If only we had that type of technology that would work on things other than table saws, cars, electrical outlets, etc.
3
Donald Trump says he will use much of our police forces to round up and export 11 million illegal immigrants. That means tens of thousands of FBI and police officers will be focused on immigration rather than fighting terrorism.
He also plans to send tens of thousands of US troops to occupy the oil fields of Iraq. This is incredibly dangerous and will only encourage more attacks on America.
Trump will make us less safe by taking resources from fighting terrorism and will encourage more terrorism against us by his crazy plan to take Middle East oil.
He also plans to send tens of thousands of US troops to occupy the oil fields of Iraq. This is incredibly dangerous and will only encourage more attacks on America.
Trump will make us less safe by taking resources from fighting terrorism and will encourage more terrorism against us by his crazy plan to take Middle East oil.
11
Nonsense.
Why are you assuming law enforcement can't do both? Wouldn't hire and train more officers? How long are you thinking it would take to locate and deport them? Exactly how on Earth does an Obama liberal come up with the notion that securing our borders, enforcing immigration law and clamping down on ISIS sleeper cells entering the USA makes us less safe?
Why are you assuming law enforcement can't do both? Wouldn't hire and train more officers? How long are you thinking it would take to locate and deport them? Exactly how on Earth does an Obama liberal come up with the notion that securing our borders, enforcing immigration law and clamping down on ISIS sleeper cells entering the USA makes us less safe?
12
Start by going after the people who employ them. Break up the gangs of laborers hanging out at the Home Depot and Lowes. Arrest the employers and the rest will stop hiring them. Without jobs they will self deport.
4
"Former Republican presidential candidate Marco Rubio says tougher gun control in the US would not have prevented the mass shooting at a gay nightclub in Orlando.... the Senator for Florida said there should be less focus on the weapons used in the attack, and more attention paid to the motivations behind it."
Well, once again Rubio proves that he's out of touch with reality. Tougher gun CONTROL, namely, not allowing civilians access to military hardware they don't need, and not allowing disqualified citizens access to ANY firearms would have indeed prevented this.
Republicans for some strange reason are trying once again to get people to focus on the "motivation" and not the weapon when it should be crystal clear to everyone that this man and his "motivation," minus his "legally obtained" assault weapon would have meant fewer causalities. And it also might have meant no casualties since without that weapon he would have known that he didn't stand a chance of killing so many people so quickly.
Well, once again Rubio proves that he's out of touch with reality. Tougher gun CONTROL, namely, not allowing civilians access to military hardware they don't need, and not allowing disqualified citizens access to ANY firearms would have indeed prevented this.
Republicans for some strange reason are trying once again to get people to focus on the "motivation" and not the weapon when it should be crystal clear to everyone that this man and his "motivation," minus his "legally obtained" assault weapon would have meant fewer causalities. And it also might have meant no casualties since without that weapon he would have known that he didn't stand a chance of killing so many people so quickly.
10
Gun control failed in Orlando. the Pulse nightclub was a gun-free zone. that disarmed the victims, did it stop the shooter? Gun control kills!
8
How many assault weapons were used on 9/11?
7
the AR15 is not a military weapon. Not even one soldier in any army anywhere in the world carries the AR15.
8
In America mentally ill people can buy guns. That is how lax our rules are here. If the NRA and those cowardly Americans who need a gun to feel safe (because they can't find the internal courage or the faith in their God to do so) come up with a way to keep the mentally ill from buying guns then those of us with more sense will have to change the second amendment.
6
Mentally ill as defined by whom? you?
Because if your diagnosis is based upon reading about the guy in the paper, I would be against that law. Plus, I would argue anyone who murders anyone else (whether or not a gun was involved) is mentally ill. But we don't know until afterwards.
Because if your diagnosis is based upon reading about the guy in the paper, I would be against that law. Plus, I would argue anyone who murders anyone else (whether or not a gun was involved) is mentally ill. But we don't know until afterwards.
6
Don't be coy, EinT. When you want to murder a lot of people and have a brief amount of time, you're going to pick a firearm. Preferably a rifle such as those used in Orlando, at V Tech, Sandy Hook and so many other places.
Rifles sold with the ad line, like Bushmaster: "consider your man-card reissued".
Rifles sold with the ad line, like Bushmaster: "consider your man-card reissued".
1
You aren't considered mentally ill until a judge using counsel in a court of law decides you are.
Or would you rather we use the methods used in the old Soviet Union?
Or would you rather we use the methods used in the old Soviet Union?
5
What I find hard to believe is for the amount of federal tax dollars hard working citizens pay in order to hire supposedly the best and brightest in the FBI, we aren't getting much, if at all, in return. I'm beginning to realize with each bloody episode of mass murder, that the only ones who have real power to connect the dots and then call out these deranged men are- the unpaid public, the very people, LGBT or otherwise, who have the most to lose by just being average Joe's walking down the street, or patronizing any public venue.
I've already faced the fact that we are a gun crazed society today and if some deeply unhappy male with a chip on his shoulder, no matter his ethnic, religious, or cultural identity, wants to buy an assault rifle with the sole intent of playing out his Rambo-style, attention-grabbing frustrations at the expense of vulnerable populations, apparently there is nothing, no one, to stop him. For us to naively assume the FBI, Homeland Security, or the CIA has our backs, well, the evidence is growing by the day that we are flat wrong. In summation, our NRA-gifted open gun culture is at complete odds with our reasonable expectations of public safety so there should be no surprise why the police, the FBI are no longer effective in foreseeing let alone preventing this unbearable human carnage. When is enough enough? You tell me.
I've already faced the fact that we are a gun crazed society today and if some deeply unhappy male with a chip on his shoulder, no matter his ethnic, religious, or cultural identity, wants to buy an assault rifle with the sole intent of playing out his Rambo-style, attention-grabbing frustrations at the expense of vulnerable populations, apparently there is nothing, no one, to stop him. For us to naively assume the FBI, Homeland Security, or the CIA has our backs, well, the evidence is growing by the day that we are flat wrong. In summation, our NRA-gifted open gun culture is at complete odds with our reasonable expectations of public safety so there should be no surprise why the police, the FBI are no longer effective in foreseeing let alone preventing this unbearable human carnage. When is enough enough? You tell me.
7
I actually have to humbly disagree. The question is how many more incidents would we have if we did not have the FBI and other organizations like this? One can not reasonably expect them to stop every plot as investigations can't be perfect and there are ways to evade all forms of suspicion. I am not saying that the FBI is doing a good or bad job, but instead that singular incidents need to be examined in the larger picture.
5
This was a horrendous and tragic attack against the LGBT community and all Americans. What I do not understand is that the U.S. invaded Iraq, under false pretenses that Hussain was using weapons of mass destruction but we reject calls for gun control. How crazy is that? These automatic rifles, semi-automatic handguns, & large capacity magazines are weapons of mass destruction, without question. There is no other legitimate use for these military grade automatic weapons than to kill people. Anyone who thinks that these weapons, used to kill hundreds of defenseless civilians in the last decade, do not qualify as weapons of mass destruction is delusional. Let's ban them now.
9
Plus, we adopted ObamaCare under deliberate bald-faced lies.
And anyone who has even a basic knowledge of guns know that automatic weapons have been banned for decades. You demand dictatorial tyrannical powers, yet you know nothing of what you demand limitless control over. Typical Big Government liberal
And anyone who has even a basic knowledge of guns know that automatic weapons have been banned for decades. You demand dictatorial tyrannical powers, yet you know nothing of what you demand limitless control over. Typical Big Government liberal
10
There is a difference between an automatic weapon and a semi-automatic weapon. One of them is illegal, the other isn't. But then again, mass murder is illegal as well.
8
". Let's ban them now."
Do it. Then figure out how you're going to enforce it. This isn't Australia or England.
Do it. Then figure out how you're going to enforce it. This isn't Australia or England.
5
Very true. I suggest only banning them in your country which is something the American people could do, not banning them everywhere, which is something the American people cannot do.
1
Speaking as a dual citizen (US and Canada), my opinion is that it is vastly easier to make needed changes in Canada than in the US. We still haven't even gone metric!
1
Note especially the question to and the answer fromf the police about whether any victims were caught in the crossfire of the SWAT attack. Anybody who was following what was going on at this website knows that the estimate of fatalities during the standoff was 20 until around the time of the SWAT attack, when it rose to 50. There are multiple explanations. But if there were 30 casualties during the SWAT attack that is unacceptable and will be a huge scandal.
4
So if the shooter was still in the club, how would it have been possible to get an accurate account of casualties? Should a reporter have asked him to promise not to shoot so he or she could enter the club and count bodies?
5
Good idea. Let's blame the cops. Where have I heard that before. Oh, wait. It's coming to me. I've heard from the Tiimesianan commenters, over and over...
2
Speaking of terrorists, when will the American public see the 28 pages that were redacted from the report on the terrorists that struck America on 9/11/2001? What is Washington hiding?
10
Well, not in the next few years - You do not want to expose the Saudis, the masters of humanity and mankind, the observer of human rights :)
2
Legal availability of assault weapons, lack of background checks with "teeth", Islamic fundamentalism, age-old homophobia, ISIS, and a mentally deranged deluded alpha-male.
ALL OF THESE are to blame. And we should do something about each of these factors, which will then reduce the likelihood of such a tragedy happening again.
Let's ban assault weapons (slippery slope? nonsense! we ban cruise missiles as well), let's ban sales of guns to people with terrorist sympathies, let's continue fighting ISIS, let's engage moderate muslims to combat and condemn the nihilistic rethoric of Islamic fundamentalism, let's be intolerant of intolerance, and let's fight homo-phobia wherever it rears its ugly head (e.g., in the GOP).
Not engaging to do ALL of this, is being soft on terrorism and facilitating the next terrible massacre.
ALL OF THESE are to blame. And we should do something about each of these factors, which will then reduce the likelihood of such a tragedy happening again.
Let's ban assault weapons (slippery slope? nonsense! we ban cruise missiles as well), let's ban sales of guns to people with terrorist sympathies, let's continue fighting ISIS, let's engage moderate muslims to combat and condemn the nihilistic rethoric of Islamic fundamentalism, let's be intolerant of intolerance, and let's fight homo-phobia wherever it rears its ugly head (e.g., in the GOP).
Not engaging to do ALL of this, is being soft on terrorism and facilitating the next terrible massacre.
4
No to besmirch them, but I think the FBI director should resign and a few other law enforcement leaders as well. While they all dithered, caught up in their respective rules and regulations plus time spent congratulating each others' work, over 100 people were either killed or maimed.
7
it's Obama that needs to resign.
15
That is WAY too many tear drops to pour into a bucket and just cry "mother's comfort." This nations must STOP as we did at Gettysburg and bear WITNESS to the enabled violence that is making devils out of mentally ill people.
3
This was not happening before the US invaded Iraq, or before the US supported the overthrow Gaddafi, or before the US the supported the overthrow of Assad, or before the US provided arms to different factions on different days. US foreign policy in the Middle East since for the past 3-40 years has been so bad that no one remembers what is in the best interest of the United States.
13
The fact that the body count was so high merely provides cover for the left to place blame on assault rifles, a truly amazing and shameful deflection. Suppose the gay club was attacked by a Muslim with a bomb, a knife, a handgun. What would the conversation be about then?
11
Suppose it was hit by a meteor!
Thing is, none of that happened. What happened was that a nutjob with a serious thing about gays and women and a tendency to shoot his moth off about terrorism was handed an AR-15, a couple handguns, a flak vest, and a ton of ammo.
Thing is, none of that happened. What happened was that a nutjob with a serious thing about gays and women and a tendency to shoot his moth off about terrorism was handed an AR-15, a couple handguns, a flak vest, and a ton of ammo.
6
It would be about GW Bush and how he lied to get us into Iraq. Osage.. I give you the readership of the NY Times.. Welcome.
3
If the individual attacked the club with a knife, the body count would not be as high as people could more easily run away, he would be more apt to tackle, you can't stab people at the rate that you can shoot someone with an AR-15 for prolonged periods of time, and stab wounds are in general less deadly. If he used a bomb, he would have to have the expertise to make a bomb, be more likely to have conspirators due to the techical know how, and would have had to kept the device (think a Uhaul filled with fertilizer) hidden from suspicion. If he had a handgun... We would be discussing the exact same problem we are right now about guns.
1
The shootout between the first responders/SWAT and the culprit must have been ineffective if the culprit was able to barricade himself in the bathroom for three hours. What kind of shooting skills did the police have if they could not overpower and stop this one terrorist?
6
Agree!
And then we have Trump bragging about the. Congrats. He gets for his "I told you so". Nothing about a "crazy" who can get an automatic gun and without breaking the law. Mr. Trump who also seems to have a collection of guns shunned them when his country called him to do some real shooting. 5 deferments because of a sore foot. Really!
9
Some authorities have cited the internet as the source for this killer's inspiration, implying the web somehow uniquely enables this insanity.
During the Vietnam War television images were blamed for the anti-war movement and the relatively few acts of domestic violence that conflict inspired. Before that, newspapers. And from the dawn of printing governments have blamed the media for the acts of a criminal few.
There is one certain, guilty party and that is the killer. It is possible, but very unlikely in this case, some other parties helped carry out this attack. But unlike most nations we compare ourselves to, a criminal conspiracy is required to put an automatic (or "semi-automatic") weapon in the hands of someone who will to commit this evil an act.
Not so in the good old USA. Unless the purchaser is foaming at the mouth with eyes rolled back in the head, almost every unstable individual within our borders can purchase an AR-15 or some other equally destructive weapon.
During the Vietnam War television images were blamed for the anti-war movement and the relatively few acts of domestic violence that conflict inspired. Before that, newspapers. And from the dawn of printing governments have blamed the media for the acts of a criminal few.
There is one certain, guilty party and that is the killer. It is possible, but very unlikely in this case, some other parties helped carry out this attack. But unlike most nations we compare ourselves to, a criminal conspiracy is required to put an automatic (or "semi-automatic") weapon in the hands of someone who will to commit this evil an act.
Not so in the good old USA. Unless the purchaser is foaming at the mouth with eyes rolled back in the head, almost every unstable individual within our borders can purchase an AR-15 or some other equally destructive weapon.
7
This guy was just an insecure homophobe until he was too easily allowed to buy a slaughter gun. The industry has blood on their hands.
25
Just remember that the NRA and the Republicans in Congress vigorously fought for this mass-murderer's right to legally buy an AR-15 assault rifle.
And they will continue to fight for the right of future mass-murderers to do the same. Enabling mass-murderer's is what the NRA and Republicans in Congress do.
Just remember that in November.
And they will continue to fight for the right of future mass-murderers to do the same. Enabling mass-murderer's is what the NRA and Republicans in Congress do.
Just remember that in November.
20
Neither party is espousing policies that would lower gun violence by even 10%. Playing partisan politics only let's let yourself off the hook. US citizens en masse are the guilty party. Not politicians or the NRA.
3
That's better than the left, who made Pulse a gun=free zone and thus disarmed the victims but not the shooter
3
I will remember how Chicago Guy conflates every liberal talking point into gobbledygook and I will ignore you and vote a straight GOP ticket!
How do ya like them apples??
How do ya like them apples??
4
So Trump is on TV spewing hatred for peoples of particular national origins, religions, races.....
This is not helpful.
Trump is buddies with Putin.
And in Captain America the movie, it was made clear, that the way to destroy the US is from within....by sowing internal hatred amongst ourselves.
This is what Trump is doing.
This is not helpful.
Trump is buddies with Putin.
And in Captain America the movie, it was made clear, that the way to destroy the US is from within....by sowing internal hatred amongst ourselves.
This is what Trump is doing.
6
Using your logic I'm fairly certain that Ant Man will save the day...
3
He's also insinuating that Obama is in cahoots with terrorists. He lied that the shooter was an Afghan rather than an American. He's counting on supporters to not understand the difference. Hillary on the other hand is asking Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states to stop promoting and supporting extemists. Which is at the heart of the problem.
2
Meanwhile, Obama's "JV team" is riling people up here and abroad to commit more atrocities like this. Remember, the messes made in Syria, Libya and the early withdrawal from Iraq is what caused the lawless vaccum that allowed ISIS to be created and flourish to begin with. Nevermind that in our foreign policy wisdom, we are arming radicals, Al Qaeda affiliated ones no less, to fight against Assad as we speak. It is our horrible foreign policy and the blunders of proxy wars and attempted regime changes that created ISIS outright. That should not be forgotten.
Others will of course blame gun control, which is fairly nonsensical, as even the strictest gun control laws and measures wont matter to terrorists who will get the guns and commit the crimes regardless. Criminals and terrorists dont care about your gun laws. Look to France for example, where guns are banned for everyone but military and law enforcement, yet the terrorists still got their weapons and committed their attacks. Heck, Chicago has some pretty stringent gun laws, and yet...thousands of shootings a year. Even if semi auto weapons like this M4 were banned in the US all together, terrorists would simply get them from Mexico or elsewhere. We know Mexico has certainly them, (Thanks to Eric Holder and Fast and Furious)...
Others will of course blame gun control, which is fairly nonsensical, as even the strictest gun control laws and measures wont matter to terrorists who will get the guns and commit the crimes regardless. Criminals and terrorists dont care about your gun laws. Look to France for example, where guns are banned for everyone but military and law enforcement, yet the terrorists still got their weapons and committed their attacks. Heck, Chicago has some pretty stringent gun laws, and yet...thousands of shootings a year. Even if semi auto weapons like this M4 were banned in the US all together, terrorists would simply get them from Mexico or elsewhere. We know Mexico has certainly them, (Thanks to Eric Holder and Fast and Furious)...
5
This comment/question is not meant to diminish in any way the gravity of this event. But I have to ask: why do the NY Times and most other media describe this massacre as "the largest mass shooting in U.S. history?" From what I can learn, the massacre of Lakota Indians and Wounded Knee, S.D., committed by Federal troops, resulted in the deaths of a far larger number of innocent victims.
Some Federal troops were also killed, so I suppose some might call the Wounded Knee event a "battle." I don't agree, and can't construe Wounded Knee as anything other than a mass murder. Thus Wounded Knee was "the largest mass shooting in U.S. history," AFAIK - although there may have been even bloodier events; I'm no expert.
Some Federal troops were also killed, so I suppose some might call the Wounded Knee event a "battle." I don't agree, and can't construe Wounded Knee as anything other than a mass murder. Thus Wounded Knee was "the largest mass shooting in U.S. history," AFAIK - although there may have been even bloodier events; I'm no expert.
7
Wounded Knee was an attempt by the federal government to disarm native Americans. Apparently it worked and many commenters here advocate the exact same thing for the rest of the country.
4
because there was a war between Native Americans and US soldiers. I am NOT saying that what the European settlers did to the tribes wasn't bad, but at the time, it was, I believe, considered an all of war of colonial conquest. the Native Americans, for the most part, were armed with some bows and arrows and some rifles. the people in the nightclub were not armed.
in a war, the other side is not considered innocent. you my justifiably argue that the native Americans were righteous in their cause, but they also did slaughter a lot of white settlers. like i said, it was a war. perhaps not a just, righteous war. but it was a war, like the Vietnam War. therefore, it is categorized as death in war. i see the native America tribes a similar to the Vietnamese: both fought wars of national liberation.
in a war, the other side is not considered innocent. you my justifiably argue that the native Americans were righteous in their cause, but they also did slaughter a lot of white settlers. like i said, it was a war. perhaps not a just, righteous war. but it was a war, like the Vietnam War. therefore, it is categorized as death in war. i see the native America tribes a similar to the Vietnamese: both fought wars of national liberation.
6
What we're advocating, actually, is not handing violent lunatics an assault rifle and a ton of ammo.
2
I'm listening to Trump speaking in New Hampshire as I write.
One thing he's made clear is that it was no accident and no misspeaking, nor was it misconstrued, when he characterized Judge Curiel as a "Mexican" rather than an American born in Indiana. Unless I heard him wrong, he just called the Orlando shooter "an Afghan," born to immigrants from Afghanistan. According to the Times, the shooter was born in New York to immigrant parents.
I'm disgusted by Trump's zealous rush to politicize and capitalize on this act of terrorism. Looking forward to the fact-checking of this appallingly opportunistic speech.
One thing he's made clear is that it was no accident and no misspeaking, nor was it misconstrued, when he characterized Judge Curiel as a "Mexican" rather than an American born in Indiana. Unless I heard him wrong, he just called the Orlando shooter "an Afghan," born to immigrants from Afghanistan. According to the Times, the shooter was born in New York to immigrant parents.
I'm disgusted by Trump's zealous rush to politicize and capitalize on this act of terrorism. Looking forward to the fact-checking of this appallingly opportunistic speech.
10
Someone else suggested this in another comment thread and I think it's a good idea:
The organizations involved in trying to bring a small bit of sanity to our culture by proposing minimal, reasonable regulations on gun ownership should just give up on persuading any legislative body with republicans in the majority. That is a proven waste of time.
Instead, take it to the tourism industry: Big ads in major European and Asian newspapers and magazines, warning travelers away from the USA. "To our friends in France (Germany, etc): We urge you to not travel to the US because there is a finite chance that you will end up dead from a bullet. We urge you to travel elsewhere and let the American consulate in your country know what you are doing and why."
There could be ads in this country, too, in publications like Sunset and Conde Nast Traveler: "We urge citizens who value their lives to NOT visit the state of Florida until they have banned the sale of automatic weapons. Even the 'Magic Kingdom' is not safe from maniacs with military weapons..."
Hit 'em in the pocket book. Money is the only value universally understood in the United States of America, because we have become a sick society.
The organizations involved in trying to bring a small bit of sanity to our culture by proposing minimal, reasonable regulations on gun ownership should just give up on persuading any legislative body with republicans in the majority. That is a proven waste of time.
Instead, take it to the tourism industry: Big ads in major European and Asian newspapers and magazines, warning travelers away from the USA. "To our friends in France (Germany, etc): We urge you to not travel to the US because there is a finite chance that you will end up dead from a bullet. We urge you to travel elsewhere and let the American consulate in your country know what you are doing and why."
There could be ads in this country, too, in publications like Sunset and Conde Nast Traveler: "We urge citizens who value their lives to NOT visit the state of Florida until they have banned the sale of automatic weapons. Even the 'Magic Kingdom' is not safe from maniacs with military weapons..."
Hit 'em in the pocket book. Money is the only value universally understood in the United States of America, because we have become a sick society.
13
STAY AWAY from Chicago!! The violence brought about by strict gun control laws will almost surely get you killed
10
Brilliant
Just tell them to travel to France and Brussels. You cannot buy assault rifles there legally so they would be safe tourists right?
2
I am tired of praying for broken and devastated American families.
To hear out the right-wing/NRA, this type of massacre would have been avoided if someone was armed and returned fire. OK. Fine. Even assuming that works, that is not a country in which I want to live, and in which I want my children to grow up. I do not want to be strapped all-the-time, looking over my shoulders when shopping for groceries, in case a raging madman happens to storm in with a military assault rifle with murderous intent.
However, more important is how my country got to this point -- where rhetoric has become to poisonous and the fabric so toxic that we are left with the draconian choice of either accepting episodes of such heinous violence, or give up our liberties in favor of a pseudo police state that tracks everything we do. How might we return to civilized discourse and try to heal the divides in this country that makes this type of violence the inevitable outcome. Because while you can kill people, the only way to kill an idea or belief is to expose it through transparent dialogue; and that is a weapon worth trying instead.
To hear out the right-wing/NRA, this type of massacre would have been avoided if someone was armed and returned fire. OK. Fine. Even assuming that works, that is not a country in which I want to live, and in which I want my children to grow up. I do not want to be strapped all-the-time, looking over my shoulders when shopping for groceries, in case a raging madman happens to storm in with a military assault rifle with murderous intent.
However, more important is how my country got to this point -- where rhetoric has become to poisonous and the fabric so toxic that we are left with the draconian choice of either accepting episodes of such heinous violence, or give up our liberties in favor of a pseudo police state that tracks everything we do. How might we return to civilized discourse and try to heal the divides in this country that makes this type of violence the inevitable outcome. Because while you can kill people, the only way to kill an idea or belief is to expose it through transparent dialogue; and that is a weapon worth trying instead.
10
Why was a man with a history of violence and who alarmed his coworkers with his hate speech working for G4S, a large security firm? He was clearly a danger to the firm's customers. I hear a lot about government failures, how about blatant corporate incompetence if not criminal neglect?
19
Had G4S taken any action against Mateen, Obama/CAIR/ACLU would have skewered them for Islamophobia. G4S was handcuffed by a PC Big Government
12
Because in America you don't question anyone and its a free country.
5
Any politician who has blocked background checks should be voted out of office.
Any politician who has sought the support of homophobic organizations, including faith based organizations, should be voted out of office.
Any politician who would single out a religion for a litmus test on American patriotism should be voted out of office.
Suffice it to say, the above includes anyone seeking to become a so-called public servant.
Any politician who has sought the support of homophobic organizations, including faith based organizations, should be voted out of office.
Any politician who would single out a religion for a litmus test on American patriotism should be voted out of office.
Suffice it to say, the above includes anyone seeking to become a so-called public servant.
8
The guy was a mentally ill homophobe, and he deluded himself into believing that his hatred and homophobia are condoned by any religion. And guns must be kept out of the hands of known wife beaters.
13
Another day, another massacre!
Predictably, those so called patriots who care more about their right to posses more guns than they do the very citizens of this country, are telling us once again that if only someone in that nightclub had a gun, then everything would be just fine, nobody would be hurt. This is akin to saying that if we see a fire all we have to do is pour gasoline on it!
The fact is, not a single massacre has been prevented by the increased availability of guns in this country!
Congressional Republicans, some Democrats, and their patrons, the NRA have blood on their hands. Apparently, their solution to violence is to arm every single man woman and child in this country, as if going back to the Wild West will save us!
We live in the most insane country in the world!
Predictably, those so called patriots who care more about their right to posses more guns than they do the very citizens of this country, are telling us once again that if only someone in that nightclub had a gun, then everything would be just fine, nobody would be hurt. This is akin to saying that if we see a fire all we have to do is pour gasoline on it!
The fact is, not a single massacre has been prevented by the increased availability of guns in this country!
Congressional Republicans, some Democrats, and their patrons, the NRA have blood on their hands. Apparently, their solution to violence is to arm every single man woman and child in this country, as if going back to the Wild West will save us!
We live in the most insane country in the world!
8
GOP patron = NRA. Democrat patron = Planned Parenthood. One saves lives, the other ends them. But which is which?
3
There was one armed, uniformed cop right there when this guy started shooting. Then there were two more, it seems.
The cops were outgunned, because some pack of fools thought handing lunatics an assault rifle and a ton of ammo was a good idea.
The cops were outgunned, because some pack of fools thought handing lunatics an assault rifle and a ton of ammo was a good idea.
6
No question this yet another shocking example of why we need serious gun control ASAP.
But this incident, Newtown, Boston, Paris all make me think that it might be time that we start holding close family members accountable in some way for these events. There are plenty of clues along the way (certain types of mental illness, violence fantasies, extremist views, weapons procurement)---if people understand that they could be criminally and/or civilly liable, they would be more responsible about escalating worrisome behavior.
But this incident, Newtown, Boston, Paris all make me think that it might be time that we start holding close family members accountable in some way for these events. There are plenty of clues along the way (certain types of mental illness, violence fantasies, extremist views, weapons procurement)---if people understand that they could be criminally and/or civilly liable, they would be more responsible about escalating worrisome behavior.
8
Ines, I have a sibling that is severely mentally ill, while their other brothers and sisters (me included) are very well adjusted members of society; medical doctor, accountant, and a mid level health care provider. There is nothing, and I state nothing, a family can do that will protect the public from individuals like my sibling. Despite multiple violent episodes that involve criminal convictions, there is no mental institution or facility that exists for them. Our family has enrolled my family member in multiple rehabilitation programs with them often checking themselves out despite being court ordered. You can tell judges, police officers and psychiatrists all about the proclivities of your sibling, but until a drastic violent outcome happens (i.e. murder) there is no legal means to incapacitate them. I challenge you to find one family that can adequately control family members with sociopathic behavior. We need both meaningful mental health and gun law reform.
5
I see that the general rule--there are no situations Donald Trump can't make at least a little worse--still holds true.
12
Why have not heard condemnation of the Orlando mass shooting from the Muslin mosques, important imams around the US and the world? The relative silence from the Islamic leaders is deafening.
17
"The relative silence from the Islamic leaders is deafening."
Really? That's a surprise...
Think about this: In Afghanistan, Brunei, Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen, homosexual activity carries the death penalty.
So don't hold your breath...
Really? That's a surprise...
Think about this: In Afghanistan, Brunei, Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen, homosexual activity carries the death penalty.
So don't hold your breath...
5
If you haven't heard the condemnation from Muslims, you must have selective hearing. It's out there. It's the Times articles and every other major media source.
The police responded well and, of course, with the best of intentions.
However, I think a 3rd party independent investigator should be brought in to determine how many died during at the gunman's hands versus at the hands of the SWAT team.
No agenda other than the truth will do.
However, I think a 3rd party independent investigator should be brought in to determine how many died during at the gunman's hands versus at the hands of the SWAT team.
No agenda other than the truth will do.
2
Why in the world are machine guns available to citizens? There is simply no reason any citizen should be allowed to purchase a machine gun.
I blame politicians--mainly Republicans--who are cowards afraid of standing up to the NRA on behalf of every American man, woman and child.
The NRA and the Republican party have blood on their hands.
I blame politicians--mainly Republicans--who are cowards afraid of standing up to the NRA on behalf of every American man, woman and child.
The NRA and the Republican party have blood on their hands.
9
A machine gun was not used. Buying one is not easy or cheap.
5
If you prefer to categorize the weapon used in this tragedy as a "sub-machine gun" then fine. For nearly all intents and purposes these weapons are basically machine gun. Regardless, their availability is mind-boggling...
Here, you can buy one for less than $1k!
http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/firearms/centerfire-rifles/semia...
Here, you can buy one for less than $1k!
http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/firearms/centerfire-rifles/semia...
2
For all intents and purposes it isn't a machine gun. It isn't a sub-machine gun either. Its a semi-automatic rifle. It helps to have a basic understanding of firearms before trying to talk about them. Also, $1K seems like a lot for an AR variant. I got my AK for around $300
2
The NRA is made up of the American People. The American people oppose gun control. We The People own and are buying guns in record numbers; that's the only poll that matters
4
No, the NRA is made up of gun industry profiteers and those that benefit from their advocacy for "guns, guns and more guns". Guns in churches, guns in elementary schools, guns on college campuses. And let's not forget Stand Your Ground that is, essentially, "shoot first, ask questions later".
The NRA and those that support them should be marginalized and ignored.
The NRA and those that support them should be marginalized and ignored.
10
You mentioned boldface lies in one of your responses. How about Weapons of Mass Destruction? Are you going to blame that lie on President Obama and gun control advocates?
1
The shooting that happened in Orlando is unspeakable. I am so sorry to everyone that has been going through this. Coming from a child with gay parents I couldn't imagine that happening to them the connection that adopted children have with their parents is unlike anything else in the world, so I'm so sorry and I send all of my thoughts to anyone who is in any way shape or from involved with this massacre.
7
Still people out there are against the NSA monitoring? I say it is probably one step in prevention, the next should be to have enough agents to follow the suspects.
4
Seems to me this guy was going what we used to call "postal" for the person who could no longer pretend his life was not in ruins after cycling endlessly around his own crumbing defense structures.
The steroids seemed to further escalate his immature coping mechanisms, and he fell into raging self destruction with a superiority complex. Pure projection, he was sure we all hated him the way he hated the LGBT community.
Anyone who fueled that spectrum, you better get your Hulk on, Gawkers.
Look, acting out is a warning sign, and the person is demanding someone observe. So do it, don't resent the freaked out imposition. They need a just dose of sanity from our amped up reality on TV. I bet he thought he was sticking to script like an anti-super ego.
You go acting a fool and making like you are going to hurt others or yourself? Restraining orders? How did this disorder get passed the court system? NRA, I have a sneaking feeling you insisted. But sales must be up like a morning clucker.
The steroids seemed to further escalate his immature coping mechanisms, and he fell into raging self destruction with a superiority complex. Pure projection, he was sure we all hated him the way he hated the LGBT community.
Anyone who fueled that spectrum, you better get your Hulk on, Gawkers.
Look, acting out is a warning sign, and the person is demanding someone observe. So do it, don't resent the freaked out imposition. They need a just dose of sanity from our amped up reality on TV. I bet he thought he was sticking to script like an anti-super ego.
You go acting a fool and making like you are going to hurt others or yourself? Restraining orders? How did this disorder get passed the court system? NRA, I have a sneaking feeling you insisted. But sales must be up like a morning clucker.
1
Today, while I remain in a kind of shock, my neighbor has been moving from East to West and then back again on property North of me not owned by who is discharging a rifle, about a dozen shots today. Is it a hunting season? I don't think so. Is there a target this neighbor is aiming at? By his movements, I don't think so. So what is my neighbor doing today firing off rounds indiscriminately? All day following a ground hog? This is farmland, but my neighbor has no farm, yet feels there exists a right to discharge a firearm as much as they like.
9
Maybe you should call the police?
5
If you think he is breaking some law, call the police.
6
Does it all the time. I've tried to reason, I've encouraged my other neighbors to help, but there is no law, no stopping them.
Call the cops on a neighbor upstate NY? Not a good idea.
Call the cops on a neighbor upstate NY? Not a good idea.
2
This man was a deeply disturbed, hostile, and violent person who concealed his urges for years before planning his mass murder. That had almost nothing to do with any Islamic beliefs (it's unlikely that he really had any); putting on the "ISIS" label was merely convenient, and enabled him to legitimate his sociopathic intent. He was a snake--charming to the woman he married until he was living with her, when he turned sullen, overbearing, and violent. He often voiced hatred of gays and ethnic groups. His only success was in completing a security training program and then working in that field, holding down a steady job but also learning about weapons and no doubt studying other mass attacks. Like so many others who kill in cold blood and without knowing their victims or feeling compassion for them, he was almost dead himself, emotionally. His type is one of the most difficult to detect and anticipate. Except for his unreported domestic violence (which ironically could have put his name on a restrictive gun list), he apparently had no record of brushes with the law. The violent Islamic contacts merely legitimated what he intended to do all along, but show how insidious the militant Islamic presence is around the world--which can spark marginalized young people to act on their own frustrations and hostility.
3
If the shooter's beating of his wife had been taken as a serious violent crime, 49 Americans in Orlando would still be alive today. He would not have kept his job or gotten another job as a police officer or an armed security guard. He would not have passed a background check to purchase those guns to carry out a massacre. Shoplifters and marijuana users are treated more harshly by our laws and justice system than wife-beaters and boyfriends who threaten and stalk their exes. These men are mentally unstable and violent. They should immediately have all their personal weapons confiscated and permanently denied the right to purchase or possess firearms. What is done to protect women is done to protect all of us.
27
Sadly, the NRA/gun industry ensures that anyone can obtain a gun for any reasons--no questions asked. Excluded from buying through an FFL? No problem--you can buy through private sale with cash-on-hand.
#thanksNRA
#thanksNRA
6
If the woman had reported it...gone to court...filed a complaint - you might be right. But she didn't.
2
Let's look in the mirror America! The murderer was a an American. Almost all are, from the headline grabbers to daily toll of homicides and suicides across the land. Maybe there is something in our national culture of violence, unabated for centuries, to unlearn. Maybe there is something to be rooted out in our national culture of denying basic humanity to entire groups of people and wrapping the package in flags and religious texts. It is all interconnected and until we stop seeing violence as the answer and hatred and exclusion as normal, it will happen again, and again, and again. Until we stop looking for someone to look down on (even if it is the parts of ourselves that lies have been told about), and see the humanity in all of us, this will happen again, and again, and again. A more perfect union is a work in progress, but that requires a willingness to work and a belief in progress.
6
So sorry, but this isn't America's fault.
7
America's reputation as one of the most violent nations on earth continues to grow. Here's what they think of us down in Australia, and here's who they think is responsible:
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/orlando-shooting-for-republicans-its-easie...
The author of the article in the Sydney Morning Herald, Nick O'Malley, noted that: "Guns kill 40,000 Americans a year because they live in a country where regulating them isn't an option."
I have overseas friends who are afraid of visiting the U.S. How many more deaths is it going to take for Republicans to agree to gun control? Is a scary, gun-infested violent nation where we really want to live?
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/orlando-shooting-for-republicans-its-easie...
The author of the article in the Sydney Morning Herald, Nick O'Malley, noted that: "Guns kill 40,000 Americans a year because they live in a country where regulating them isn't an option."
I have overseas friends who are afraid of visiting the U.S. How many more deaths is it going to take for Republicans to agree to gun control? Is a scary, gun-infested violent nation where we really want to live?
13
As long as our current laws permit legislators to accept bribes from lobbyists, government can never represent the will of the people, but can only represent the will of those who are bribing them.
8
Another horrifying wakeup call…
And now what to do?
First, let’s stop throwing political stones at one another, Left blaming Right and Right castigating Left. Either we all are Americans having more in common than not or we are nothing but the Balkanized remnants of a one great nation. Which do you prefer? So put aside the partisan rancor and take stock of the problems confronting us – all of us, one nation indivisible…
It does no good to vilify the NRA; it doesn’t represent but a relative handful of the gun owners in this country, no matter what Wayne LaPierre may boast. And most gun owners welcome background checks and restrictions on the sale and possession of a variety of weaponry that should have no place in the home… So let’s think about priorities here. That leads to this.
One of the things we Americans have in common is that Radical Islam detests us. So think about it, please. If we spend our time arguing with one another about gun control, well, while we’re doing that, the Islamists run free, and even complete and total disarmament of our citizenry will not prevent Islamist attacks. Radical Islam has shown the world many times that its adherents know how to kill dozens at a time without using firearms..
So let’s join hands and use some common sense. Let’s first confront and put an end to Radical Islam by any means necessary, and then deal with our gun control issues…
And now what to do?
First, let’s stop throwing political stones at one another, Left blaming Right and Right castigating Left. Either we all are Americans having more in common than not or we are nothing but the Balkanized remnants of a one great nation. Which do you prefer? So put aside the partisan rancor and take stock of the problems confronting us – all of us, one nation indivisible…
It does no good to vilify the NRA; it doesn’t represent but a relative handful of the gun owners in this country, no matter what Wayne LaPierre may boast. And most gun owners welcome background checks and restrictions on the sale and possession of a variety of weaponry that should have no place in the home… So let’s think about priorities here. That leads to this.
One of the things we Americans have in common is that Radical Islam detests us. So think about it, please. If we spend our time arguing with one another about gun control, well, while we’re doing that, the Islamists run free, and even complete and total disarmament of our citizenry will not prevent Islamist attacks. Radical Islam has shown the world many times that its adherents know how to kill dozens at a time without using firearms..
So let’s join hands and use some common sense. Let’s first confront and put an end to Radical Islam by any means necessary, and then deal with our gun control issues…
4
"First, let’s stop throwing political stones at one another, Left blaming Right and Right castigating Left."
Except there was a bill that would have prevented this man from buying a weapon, which was solidly defeated by all but one Republican voting on it.
We take sides because one side IS in favor of responsible gun control, and the Republicans are not.
Except there was a bill that would have prevented this man from buying a weapon, which was solidly defeated by all but one Republican voting on it.
We take sides because one side IS in favor of responsible gun control, and the Republicans are not.
4
Are you kidding? The NRA has far more power than you try to make out. They spend millions of dollars each year in open lobbying (and much more in harder-to-track PAC spending). And the VAST majority of mass shootings in this country have nothing to do with radical Islam. Zilch. Zero. Sensible gun control is THE number one answer to the number of gun deaths in this country.
I am a hunter and a gun owner (of a shotgun that can fire all of two shells) myself, by the way. I would have absolutely no problem with registering my gun, or demonstrating periodically that I know how to use it safely. We do that for people and cars, but not for people and guns?
I am a hunter and a gun owner (of a shotgun that can fire all of two shells) myself, by the way. I would have absolutely no problem with registering my gun, or demonstrating periodically that I know how to use it safely. We do that for people and cars, but not for people and guns?
4
Join hands with the right? Right-wing intransigence on gun control is responsible for more carnage than ISIS could accomplish in its wildest dreams; 30,000 dead Americans EVERY YEAR. Why on earth would we hold hands with those who pose an even greater threat to our safety and our lives?
4
The text of the Second Amendment reads as follows: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
What happened Sunday, June 12, 2016 in Orlando had nothing to do with a "well-regulated militia." What occurred in Newtown, Connecticut (Sandy Hook Elementary) in the Fall of 2012 had nothing to do with a well-regulated militia. The atrocity that the psychotic Mr. James Holmes carried out in the Aurora Colorado theatre during the Summer of 2012 certainly did not involve a well regulated militia. Mr. Cho, the sociopath who murdered 32 innocent people at Virginia Tech in the Spring of 2007 was not acting in the spirit of a well regulated militia.
For George Hennard, the 35-year old homicidal maniac who shot and killed about 24 people, and then himself, at that Luby's restaurant in Killeen, Texas in October 1991, a well regulated militia was about the furthest thing from his mind. James Oliver Huberty, the murderous lunatic who slaughtered about 22 people - none of whom had done him any harm - at the San Ysidro, California McDonalds in the Summer of 1984 has been quoted as saying: "I believe in paying all my debts, good as well as bad." He said that before he went out "Hunting Humans," in his own sick and disturbed words. Hardly the actions of a member of some "Well Regulated Militia!" BTW, most of these killers whose vile actions I've referenced were NOT Muslims.
Just sayin'.
What happened Sunday, June 12, 2016 in Orlando had nothing to do with a "well-regulated militia." What occurred in Newtown, Connecticut (Sandy Hook Elementary) in the Fall of 2012 had nothing to do with a well-regulated militia. The atrocity that the psychotic Mr. James Holmes carried out in the Aurora Colorado theatre during the Summer of 2012 certainly did not involve a well regulated militia. Mr. Cho, the sociopath who murdered 32 innocent people at Virginia Tech in the Spring of 2007 was not acting in the spirit of a well regulated militia.
For George Hennard, the 35-year old homicidal maniac who shot and killed about 24 people, and then himself, at that Luby's restaurant in Killeen, Texas in October 1991, a well regulated militia was about the furthest thing from his mind. James Oliver Huberty, the murderous lunatic who slaughtered about 22 people - none of whom had done him any harm - at the San Ysidro, California McDonalds in the Summer of 1984 has been quoted as saying: "I believe in paying all my debts, good as well as bad." He said that before he went out "Hunting Humans," in his own sick and disturbed words. Hardly the actions of a member of some "Well Regulated Militia!" BTW, most of these killers whose vile actions I've referenced were NOT Muslims.
Just sayin'.
12
There needs to be stricter laws on gun control. Obviously the position and state we are in right now is not working, and tons of people are dying. However, many people are also saving their lives because of the less strict gun laws, being able to defend themselves with guns. So there's a big question. Do we harshen the gun control laws so massacres like this will be prevented more easily or should we keep the laws the same so people may defend themselves with guns to protect their own lives? This one massacre may be able to question people from all over the globe, motivating them to act and change.
2
I hope the investigation allows scrutiny and is fully forthcoming with all forensics that determine if anyone was shot by police. We are to believe that policeman are better at controlling their emotions and the adrenaline spike but there are too many examples of officers emptying their clips before they stop shooting.
Shooting a grandmother in her living room 39 times does not sound like disciplined fire. An officer jumping up on the hood of a car after a high speed chase, after 40 rounds had been fired into the stopped vehicle, who proceeds to empty his 15- round clip into the windshield, does not sound like someone in control.
No citizen is allowed to own a fully automatic weapon without extensive background checks and licensing. Odds are neither weapon of the shooter is a fully automatic. He had to pull the trigger each and every time he fired. Firing off 100 rounds in a very few minutes is difficult to do.
At Sandy Hook, the shooter allegedly fired over 150 rounds in less than five minutes. The Attorney General of Connecticut, in his final report stated there was no forensic evidence tying the gun and shell casings to the shooter. The autopsies were sealed and a law passed making it virtually impossible to see the records.
My point is this: If you don't want a lot of conspiracy theories popping up, be open, be detailed, share the ballistics and crime scene photos with enough third party participants to make your final report credible.
Shooting a grandmother in her living room 39 times does not sound like disciplined fire. An officer jumping up on the hood of a car after a high speed chase, after 40 rounds had been fired into the stopped vehicle, who proceeds to empty his 15- round clip into the windshield, does not sound like someone in control.
No citizen is allowed to own a fully automatic weapon without extensive background checks and licensing. Odds are neither weapon of the shooter is a fully automatic. He had to pull the trigger each and every time he fired. Firing off 100 rounds in a very few minutes is difficult to do.
At Sandy Hook, the shooter allegedly fired over 150 rounds in less than five minutes. The Attorney General of Connecticut, in his final report stated there was no forensic evidence tying the gun and shell casings to the shooter. The autopsies were sealed and a law passed making it virtually impossible to see the records.
My point is this: If you don't want a lot of conspiracy theories popping up, be open, be detailed, share the ballistics and crime scene photos with enough third party participants to make your final report credible.
The usual, predictable rhetoric from all sides can be found here: The parents, who insist their son was a "good boy," Trump, who could easily and successfully eliminate terrorism by banning all Muslim immigrants, Clinton and the President, who claim that love is all we need, and of course, the police and FBI, who are "investigating." All that is lacking now is a statement from the NRA about how guns don't kill, people kill. We need to face this fact as a nation: The toothpaste is out of the tube. When politicians and leaders are too afraid to stand up to NRA lobbyists, maniacs like this will always buy guns legally. Also, even if we ban all legal gun sales tomorrow, we will still have rampant black market/criminal sales and distribution. There's really no hope because of stupid decisions we made in the past.
2
Where do you think "black market" guns originate? All guns are manufactured, legally and sold, at least once, legally. Private sales are the primary method to divert weapons to the black market, since they don't require a background check or any oversight.
It's time to ban private sales and allow them only through regulated, audited FFLs. The time for gun industry profiteering at society's expense, is over.
It's time to ban private sales and allow them only through regulated, audited FFLs. The time for gun industry profiteering at society's expense, is over.
2
Based on what I've read thus far, this man worked as a security guard and had a handgun as part of his job. Even if the AR-15 wasn't available, it's easy to see him going through with this attack with a less powerful weapon as his main firearm. Would he have killed about 50 people and injured another 50 or so? Probably not -- perhaps he would have killed 15-25 along with still injuring many dozens. So the gun control argument (absent a total ban) presents an alternative where fewer people are killed, but the tragedy still occurs and there is still a mass loss of life. While it supports the notion that additional gun control measures would have helped, it's hardly a compelling argument that it's the only angle to this story.
This is a case where the root cause lies with radicalization inspired by ISIS, and yes, it does tie into Islam, even if it's a fringe portion of it. A comprehensive solution should focus on combating radicalization. If additional -- reasonable -- gun control measures can be passed as part this, that's good, but that won't solve the main problem.
This is a case where the root cause lies with radicalization inspired by ISIS, and yes, it does tie into Islam, even if it's a fringe portion of it. A comprehensive solution should focus on combating radicalization. If additional -- reasonable -- gun control measures can be passed as part this, that's good, but that won't solve the main problem.
4
When a gunman tried to shoot out the Knoxville Unitarian church, unarmed parishioners dog-piled him. Two people died. The body count could have been so much worse -
1
As this issue moves forward, we should consider that Donald Trump is saying things that are dangerous to our country. Not only is he inciting prejudice and violence, he is now sounding Un-American. He clearly uses "Hate Speech which is any speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it incites violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or group."
4
As long as that group is radical Islam, I have no problem with that.
5
Obama went back on his characterization of this incident as a terrorist event yesterday, and called it a 'home-grown extremism' today. He further said that there is no evidence that ISIS directed him to do this massacre. Looks like he is from the 51st State of Denial: ISIS has a standing 'fatwa' for all its myrmidons that they should launch attacks on Western world from within. To me, that sounds like ISIS is 'directing' its no-good Jihadists in Western world to carry out attacks from within. Why is he not getting it?
The first step to problem solving is to recognize the problem and understand it. If Obama refuses to understand the radical Jihadism that Hillary was able to admit to today, then he is doing himself and our country no favor.
Enough with this sugar-coating of terrorist threat we face under his watch.
The first step to problem solving is to recognize the problem and understand it. If Obama refuses to understand the radical Jihadism that Hillary was able to admit to today, then he is doing himself and our country no favor.
Enough with this sugar-coating of terrorist threat we face under his watch.
11
The shooter was a US citizen, born and bred in America. His connection to ISIS was of his own making.
Do you connect any, say, Irishman who sticks up a bank to the IRA? Or every bad Italian to the mob?
Do you connect any, say, Irishman who sticks up a bank to the IRA? Or every bad Italian to the mob?
5
Gun owner, it's time. Admit the only reason you have a functioning gun is to kill or maim with, or to practice in case you decide to. And realize you, me, all of us in this amazingly free and receptive society cannot remain armed to kill at will.
Lawmaker, become a Statesman and release your constituents and your nation from the grips of gun money and gun mania. All political sides can agree on this. The terror attacks are merely a distraction from the vast, terrible bloodbath guns cause annually from volatile, emotional, and normal human nature. It is they that turn a twisted thought into a dead body in a simple press of the easy button.
Please.
Lawmaker, become a Statesman and release your constituents and your nation from the grips of gun money and gun mania. All political sides can agree on this. The terror attacks are merely a distraction from the vast, terrible bloodbath guns cause annually from volatile, emotional, and normal human nature. It is they that turn a twisted thought into a dead body in a simple press of the easy button.
Please.
3
Just look up the answers to these three simple questions.
1. How many guns do US civilians own?
2. How many gun homicides are there annually in the US (not suicides, homicides)?
Does the number illegal homicides as a percentage of total guns represent a "bloodbath"?
1. How many guns do US civilians own?
2. How many gun homicides are there annually in the US (not suicides, homicides)?
Does the number illegal homicides as a percentage of total guns represent a "bloodbath"?
5
Hear, hear!
Every day in America, 297 people will be shot, 89 of them will die (figures from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.) We plant nearly 30,000 Americans in the ground annually because some people think unfettered access to guns somehow makes us safer.
Every day in America, 297 people will be shot, 89 of them will die (figures from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.) We plant nearly 30,000 Americans in the ground annually because some people think unfettered access to guns somehow makes us safer.
2
So, the idea is to make it as easy as possible to do both?
Explain the difference to me between the Orlando shooter Omar Mateen (Muslim) and the Planned Parenthood shooter Robert Dear (Christian). All I see are similarities - mental illness, twisted ideologies, male, violent, American citizens, access to guns - and both of their targets vilified by the right-wing! Can we please step away from the distraction of "radical Islam" and confront instead the menace of radical fundamentalism in all of its guises?
15
I find it rather ironic that Robert Dear stated he committed the murders because of his religious beliefs, yet, was he described as a terrorist?
After today we will probably know most of the facts behind this act of depravity.
And hopefully the U.S. Media will stop the headlines and dim the spotlight on a crazed individual who obviously wanted to get on the front pages and stay there.
Prayers for the survivors, the families...and this country.
And hopefully the U.S. Media will stop the headlines and dim the spotlight on a crazed individual who obviously wanted to get on the front pages and stay there.
Prayers for the survivors, the families...and this country.
2
It kills me as an American to see fellow countrymen and women massacred by a deranged lunatic. It kills me as a Muslim to see these lunatics invoke Islam as they massacre so many.
But I won't sit here and claim, like so many other Muslims with good intentions but bad judgement, that this sort of violence has nothing to do with the religion. It absolutely does.
Wahhabism, the violent 18th century Saudi cult that has spread like a cancer throughout the faith, has caused so much harm it is hard to know where to start. It is a disease of the mind, the heart and the soul of too many people.
It needs to be called out by name, attacked and purged from this planet - for the sake of Muslims who aren't fringe lunatics, and for the sake of the world.
Radical Islam. Wahhabism. Jihadism. All the same cult. It needs to be destroyed.
You won't fix the problem by taking the Donald Trump approach of hatred. But you won't fit it by ignoring its existence either. Name it. Identify it. Target it. Destroy it.
But I won't sit here and claim, like so many other Muslims with good intentions but bad judgement, that this sort of violence has nothing to do with the religion. It absolutely does.
Wahhabism, the violent 18th century Saudi cult that has spread like a cancer throughout the faith, has caused so much harm it is hard to know where to start. It is a disease of the mind, the heart and the soul of too many people.
It needs to be called out by name, attacked and purged from this planet - for the sake of Muslims who aren't fringe lunatics, and for the sake of the world.
Radical Islam. Wahhabism. Jihadism. All the same cult. It needs to be destroyed.
You won't fix the problem by taking the Donald Trump approach of hatred. But you won't fit it by ignoring its existence either. Name it. Identify it. Target it. Destroy it.
40
Thank you. And we need to cut our ties with Saudi Arabia.
I'm not seeing how much "gun control" measures could have been done to prevent this horror, especially given the former Supreme Court's sadly mistaken belief that owning multiple machine guns is an American right and tradition. This was not a gun crime; it was a Hate Crime. Hate is hate. Clearly, the un-Christian so-called Christian fundamentalists bear a lot of blame, if not outright responsibly for this carnage, for their hate stances. While as far as I none have said yet "serves you right for loving others with whom we disapprove" or similar garbage, I'm not seeing any firm condemnations from that block of bigots.
3
You have a lot of hatred for Christians considering a Muslim was the one that did this.
4
in some ways i agree, but i just think the patrons, say a few were armed, would be able to tell good guys from the perp. I still think if several were armed (not everyone would even want to be), ONE shot would've surely made it to the perps FACE! Personally i think you stand a better chance if others engaged in fire. ...most people would drop to floor when bullets fly anyway, only people left sranding should be those firing at perp. Hard call to make im sure. And waiting 3 hours to enter while people were inside bleeding out? Every city needs some kind armoured vehicle at their Police center for these occasions. Grab it, get sharp shooters and SWAT gear and GO IN. ....my opinion.
2
Being a Muslim does not yet seem to have been a factor. Hate of gays does seem to be the factor. Un-Christian right wingers who have no idea of the basic tenants of Christianity and push their self-invented hate agendas ARE huge problems. Christians who understand "who am I to judge" and "do unto others" are actually trying to follow the known ideas of Christ and do not promote hate.
Did Trump really tell CNN that if the people at the club had guns, there would have been fewer casualties? Really? People at a club ... dancing, celebrating, partying ... carrying guns? So now children and teachers, church goers, supermarket shoppers, movie theater patrons, employee party goers, clubbers ... where does it end? Oh that's right - it doesn't. According to Trump, everyone should have a gun and that would make us all safer. And that's what the 2nd Amendment is for?
11
How successful would this shooter have been had he chosen to kill a bunch of Christians at a redneck bar in Texas?
4
Sorry, but before they got their guns out of their holsters with the weapon this guy used and the surprise element, they would have been killed too.
1
Gun Control NOW. Repeal the 2nd Amendment if necessary. I don't want to live in a society armed to the teeth.
14
A violent, mentally disturbed, FBI-ivestigated, terrorism-inspired person was able to buy an assault rifle.
The families of the victims should do one thing:
SUE THE US GOVERNMENT
for making this one more carnage possible.
The families of the victims should do one thing:
SUE THE US GOVERNMENT
for making this one more carnage possible.
14
Might be fun to try and sue the NRA for recklessly promoting weapons used in mass killings.
4
At least the members of the congress who consistently vote to keep weapons of war on our streets.
1
It's a very good thing that this murderer did not have a security guard position at a nuclear power plant facility.
He'd probably pass muster and be hired as a TSA agent too.
He'd probably pass muster and be hired as a TSA agent too.
8
Regrettably, President Obama’s heartfelt address to the nation was not enough. That he expressed sadness, anger and frustration was not enough. This repetitive pattern that follows all mass shootings has become a travesty.
What seems terribly disturbing is that people may feel abandoned by a government that is expected to protect them but instead does nothing to reduce gun violence. It is a national tragedy.
What seems terribly disturbing is that people may feel abandoned by a government that is expected to protect them but instead does nothing to reduce gun violence. It is a national tragedy.
6
"Regrettably, President Obama’s heartfelt address to the nation was not enough."
All hat and no cattle...
All hat and no cattle...
5
The left has to frame this tragedy in terms of America's broken gun culture, and amazingly will blame Trump and the NRA. This willfully ignores the grim reality liberals are loathe to concede: it's apparent there are (optimistically) hundreds of American Muslims (male and female apparently) living here who reject western culture, sympathize with ISIS, and wish to commit large scale jihad against their fellow citizens. This reality isn't even debatable anymore.
Let me ask, suppose assault rifles were totally banned and confiscated. Would say, "only" 3 people killed in a gay club by a Muslim terrorist with a shotgun be more acceptable?
Let me ask, suppose assault rifles were totally banned and confiscated. Would say, "only" 3 people killed in a gay club by a Muslim terrorist with a shotgun be more acceptable?
16
The left also ignores that the worst shooting in American history was done by a registered Democrat in a gun-free zone
3
No, that will not be acceptable, but certainly not as bad as 50 people killed. It will be 47 lives and families spared.
3
More acceptable, no. Lots less people killed, injured and traumatized, yes.
1
Obviously the policeman acting as the club's security guard was outgunned by the firepower of the perpetrators assault weapon. The NRA fights tooth and nail to prevent any regulation of these weapons and their high capacity magazines.
The NRA gives Florida's governor Rick Scott and Attorney General Pam Bondi an A rating. Since their political actions provide support for easy access to assault weapons I found shameful their hollow commentary at the press conference for this horrific event. Pam Bondi was able to work up some crocodile tears for the media though.
The NRA gives Florida's governor Rick Scott and Attorney General Pam Bondi an A rating. Since their political actions provide support for easy access to assault weapons I found shameful their hollow commentary at the press conference for this horrific event. Pam Bondi was able to work up some crocodile tears for the media though.
10
So your claim is that there is no regulation of "these weapons and their high capacity magazines"? None at all? Are you sure about that?
Or could it possibly be that the existing regulations aren't enforced?
In Florida, it is illegal for anyone, even a concealed carry permit holder, to carry a gun into an establishment that serves alcohol.
So let's just pass some more laws. That'll help.
Or could it possibly be that the existing regulations aren't enforced?
In Florida, it is illegal for anyone, even a concealed carry permit holder, to carry a gun into an establishment that serves alcohol.
So let's just pass some more laws. That'll help.
2
Amen. AG Bondi (she who can be bought for $25000) was part of the lawsuit on the legality of gay marriage (she is unalterably opposed); the governor has done NOTHING to support a climate of inclusiveness even to the point of denying gay couples the right to adopt children (and many adopt children with special needs). These people are shameless hypocrites and someone from the press should have called them out.
1
Go ahead and tell me this doesn't count because radical Islam, and the abortion clinic siege last year doesn't count because radical Christianity and and Dylann Roof didn't count because racism and video games, and James Holmes and the guy that shot Gabrielle Giffords didn't count because mental illness.
I'm dying to hear all about how one massacre after another that starts with "Hello, one gun please" and ends with that legally-acquired gun being used to mow down people whose crime was being in the wrong place at the wrong time is a bad example because of the motive.
Lecture me about the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms that were science fiction (in fact, science fiction was still science fiction) when those words were written. Then explain to me the value of a Constitutionally dubious surveillance state that can identify people as ineligible to buy airplane tickets but not guns.
But in the end, my question will stand: must we make it so very easy for people with nefarious motives, regardless of their specific nature, to inflict such carnage? The time for dodging this question is long since past.
I'm dying to hear all about how one massacre after another that starts with "Hello, one gun please" and ends with that legally-acquired gun being used to mow down people whose crime was being in the wrong place at the wrong time is a bad example because of the motive.
Lecture me about the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms that were science fiction (in fact, science fiction was still science fiction) when those words were written. Then explain to me the value of a Constitutionally dubious surveillance state that can identify people as ineligible to buy airplane tickets but not guns.
But in the end, my question will stand: must we make it so very easy for people with nefarious motives, regardless of their specific nature, to inflict such carnage? The time for dodging this question is long since past.
17
The NRA has contributed $3 million to 20 Senators and 187 Congressman since 1998 (Source: Washington Post). That works out to a paltry $724 per politician, per year. How sad for the 310 million American, non-NRA members that their representatives are beholden to the NRA and their legislative agenda.
13
American cowardice at its finest. But they all wear American flag pins on their lapels.
4
$3 million, that's all? Over a generation?
Seriously, you think that's a lot of money in terms of political contributions by a special interest group over a generation? Get a clue.
The NRA has 4.5 million members. So your figure represents about 67 cents per member - over the span of 18 years.
Seriously, you think that's a lot of money in terms of political contributions by a special interest group over a generation? Get a clue.
The NRA has 4.5 million members. So your figure represents about 67 cents per member - over the span of 18 years.
2
Many people have posted notes here making it sound like the main problem is ISIS, not guns. But while ISIS is definitely a serious threat that needs to be vanquished-- many of the mass shootings we've seen in the US recently have been by shooters with no affiliation with ISIS whatsoever. They were just insane people who were able to buy military-style assault rifles and ammunition legally-- often many guns and loads of ammo.
The problem IS guns and ISIS and MENTAL ILLNESS. We have a serious set of problems in this country and the works right now.
I don't understand how the federal government can crack down on the availability of pain pills so effectively yet refuses to address the assault weapon issue with the same fervor. It makes no sense.
The problem IS guns and ISIS and MENTAL ILLNESS. We have a serious set of problems in this country and the works right now.
I don't understand how the federal government can crack down on the availability of pain pills so effectively yet refuses to address the assault weapon issue with the same fervor. It makes no sense.
14
So now, imagine this scenario: What if, after 9/11, NO measures had been taken to overhaul airport and aircraft security, because a certain political party opposed any such changes wholesale, claiming that any increased security in airports and on aircraft would be antithetical to their tenuous, perverse, deluded reading of the constitution.
This is exactly where we stand in terms of reasonable gun control.
This is exactly where we stand in terms of reasonable gun control.
14
Imagine a world where apples and oranges were the same thing.
3
No, the correct analogy would be banning airplanes. Or pressure cookers after the Boston Marathon attack.
2
It is interesting how you take my position to a patently ludicrous extreme in order to counter it - I guess you didn't notice that the operative term in my comment was *reasonable* gun control.
Unlike your own reality, the world is not black-and-white. There are gradations in the state of things, and nuanced ways of dealing with problems, rather than just all-or-nothing solutions. Interesting also how there is an obvious parallel between your all-or-nothing mentality and that of ISIS and its mindless followers. We'll never be able to eradicate these people if we are as rigid in our thought patterns as they are.
Unlike your own reality, the world is not black-and-white. There are gradations in the state of things, and nuanced ways of dealing with problems, rather than just all-or-nothing solutions. Interesting also how there is an obvious parallel between your all-or-nothing mentality and that of ISIS and its mindless followers. We'll never be able to eradicate these people if we are as rigid in our thought patterns as they are.
There is no such thing as a lone wolf attack. The liberal media came up with this "excuse". These insane people are radicalized by someone or some organization, they just don't become mass killers overnight on their own with these detailed game plans of mass destruction. They are not that smart to do it on their own.
The liberal media politicalizes this which s sickening. They use guns as an "excuse", they blame Republicans as an "excuse", they hide or filter facts from Americans and seem to forget the FBI reports to the DOJ which is run by The President, regardless of affiliation.
So sick of political correctness and blame games. We are at war and need to band together to protect America from these insane radicals, whoever they are and whatever they think they represent.
So sad about yesterday!
The liberal media politicalizes this which s sickening. They use guns as an "excuse", they blame Republicans as an "excuse", they hide or filter facts from Americans and seem to forget the FBI reports to the DOJ which is run by The President, regardless of affiliation.
So sick of political correctness and blame games. We are at war and need to band together to protect America from these insane radicals, whoever they are and whatever they think they represent.
So sad about yesterday!
21
Watch "Taxi Driver" again. Who radicalized him? Himself.
The left doesn't even realize that when they push their biased PC nonsense they are campaigning for Trump!
2
1. If the President read every FBI file, he'd do absolutely nothing else and still not get done.
2. The point of these weapons, as presently designed, is that very little training or expertise is needed to use them.
3. I'll bet your right-wing PC would snap on in a second if we started going after the Christian groups that preach racism and hatred of gay people, wave guns and yell about "Second Amendment remedies," and launch armed attacks on clinics, churches, and wildlife sanctuaries. Let alone the Warren Jeffs types of Mormons.
2. The point of these weapons, as presently designed, is that very little training or expertise is needed to use them.
3. I'll bet your right-wing PC would snap on in a second if we started going after the Christian groups that preach racism and hatred of gay people, wave guns and yell about "Second Amendment remedies," and launch armed attacks on clinics, churches, and wildlife sanctuaries. Let alone the Warren Jeffs types of Mormons.
1
This is not the worst mass shooting in American History. The massacre at Wounded Knee killed at least 150 men, women and children, and some say as many as 300 were slaughtered. During the 19th c. genocide of the original inhabitants of North America many native American villages were wiped out by rampaging cavalry, indiscriminately murdering entire camps. Body counts were not kept for those killings, but it would be fair to assume many of the villages held more than 50 people.
21
Thank you for going on record with your statement, and proving credible data to support it. Importantly, your statement is more than your opinion, and you were able to demonstrate that. So rare among all those individuals who commented and offered nothing more than hot air.
1
...and the group you are attempting to deflect from killed between thirty and sixty million Hindis in their partial conquest of the Hindi's homeland.
2
I'm not deflecting from anyone. I'm saying the NYT is misrepresenting the facts. Get off your high horse.
Banning religion makes more sense than banning guns, which is to say:None.
Banning murder does not work but you think guns laws do?
It is illegal to fire a gun in Chicago, no?
So, why are so many people getting shot, hmm?
Think a bit before you delude yourselves with the lure of an easy fix.
Propaganda is designed to make you think the government can save you.
Wrong.
I am not a gun advocate.
Far from it.
I'm advocating people start using their *brains* and looking for real solutions to the perpetual wars and killing fields instead of false ones.
Remember the Oklahoma City bombing?
Did 'we' ban fertilizer?
Think, people, think.
Banning murder does not work but you think guns laws do?
It is illegal to fire a gun in Chicago, no?
So, why are so many people getting shot, hmm?
Think a bit before you delude yourselves with the lure of an easy fix.
Propaganda is designed to make you think the government can save you.
Wrong.
I am not a gun advocate.
Far from it.
I'm advocating people start using their *brains* and looking for real solutions to the perpetual wars and killing fields instead of false ones.
Remember the Oklahoma City bombing?
Did 'we' ban fertilizer?
Think, people, think.
8
We actually started strictly regulating and monitoring sales of ammonium nitrate fertilzer.
Perhaps YOU should do a tad bit of thinking.
Perhaps YOU should do a tad bit of thinking.
8
No, we didn't ban fertilizer. But we did start tracking sales of it after that bombing so that this could never happen again. And - it has not happened again.
So putting common sense regulations in place that prevent people from getting their hands on potential explosives can and does work.
Common sense should dictate that we don't need an AR-15 to defend ourselves and that we don't need ammunition clips that hold more than 6-8 bullets. Only our Armed Forces need something like that. Even our police wouldn't need firepower like that if we had common sense gun laws in the first place.
And no civilian - absolutely not one - needs access or should have the right to buy armour piercing bullets.
These should be common sense reforms that we should all be in agreement with. But alas, we are not.
So putting common sense regulations in place that prevent people from getting their hands on potential explosives can and does work.
Common sense should dictate that we don't need an AR-15 to defend ourselves and that we don't need ammunition clips that hold more than 6-8 bullets. Only our Armed Forces need something like that. Even our police wouldn't need firepower like that if we had common sense gun laws in the first place.
And no civilian - absolutely not one - needs access or should have the right to buy armour piercing bullets.
These should be common sense reforms that we should all be in agreement with. But alas, we are not.
5
The FBI has only just now spoken to the ex-wife. I was taught that employees who have left a company are potentially good sources when one wants to learn more about a company. It seems obvious that former spouses should be interviewed when someone is being investigated as a security threat. The Saudis say the perpetrator travelled twice - briefly - to Saudi Arabia and once to the UAE prior to the FBI investigating the perpetrator. Did the FBI know about this? If not, that would point to another gaping hole in their previous investigation. Finally, is the FBI using resources to probe Secretary Clinton's e-mail server? Secretary Clinton's e-mail server never shot anyone. The FBI should have one salient priority and one only: forestalling attacks on soft targets by murderous perpetrators from across the entire ideological spectrum.
Don't forget that 64 people were shot over the Memorial Day weekend in Chicago, a terrible situation recently covered by the Times. That's almost 200 victims of gun violence in two weeks time. If these awful deaths were a result of over the counter medication, Doctor's would be investigated and their licenses pulled. Pills are regulated while bullets and guns and extremist muslims aren't because of undermining special interests and political correctness. Listen, we have to be honest a fix the root causes, whether it offends people or not.
The 2nd Amendment is abused as is the 1st.
Immigrants have an obligation to assimilate or get out.
Our citizens have no obligation to tolerate intolerant religions and cultures.
No one has a right to a weapon of mass destruction machine gun lovers.
And no one has a right to unlimited amounts of ammunition.
Tax bullets, regulate their sale and limit access to them.
I want a President who is going to fix these issues, not give repetitive, guilt covering speeches about the violence. It's been 3 1/2 years since Sandy Hook. Do something to protect your citizens Mr. President, other than give poignant speeches and take awesome photos that show your angst.
The 2nd Amendment is abused as is the 1st.
Immigrants have an obligation to assimilate or get out.
Our citizens have no obligation to tolerate intolerant religions and cultures.
No one has a right to a weapon of mass destruction machine gun lovers.
And no one has a right to unlimited amounts of ammunition.
Tax bullets, regulate their sale and limit access to them.
I want a President who is going to fix these issues, not give repetitive, guilt covering speeches about the violence. It's been 3 1/2 years since Sandy Hook. Do something to protect your citizens Mr. President, other than give poignant speeches and take awesome photos that show your angst.
9
Guns and ammunition aren't regulated? Really?
Or is it that these regulations aren't enforced?
Or is it that these regulations aren't enforced?
1
Two problems here. First, ban assault weapons for the general public. I'm fine with guns for hunters and personal protection. Our government needs to stand up to the NRA and tell them no more of these incidents will be tolerated.
Second, the government needs to take the Islamic terrorists more seriously. The President saying they are not an existential threat is naive and foolish. How many more attacks are needed before he takes this seriously? Better monitoring of potential terrorists in our country is needed. The FBI and government clearly failed again.
Second, the government needs to take the Islamic terrorists more seriously. The President saying they are not an existential threat is naive and foolish. How many more attacks are needed before he takes this seriously? Better monitoring of potential terrorists in our country is needed. The FBI and government clearly failed again.
15
What is an assault weapon? No one here will answer that.
1
The difference is obvious. Hunting rifles, like the Remington Model 70, are single-shot bolt-action weapons, usually with wooden stocks. Assault weapons are civilian versions of actual military rifles, i.e. the AR-15 is a civilian version of the M-16. These weapons are semi-automatic magazinefed weapons (and the magazines usually hold 10-30 rounds) with black/greyplastic or composite stocks, often retractable stocks.
Is that good enough for you?
Is that good enough for you?
1
My SKS rifle was made 54 years ago. It is wooden and semi automatic. I can modify it (legally) to replace the 10 round internal magazine to accept a variety of higher capacity magazines. So I guess that is ok then? Granted, it isn't black and scary looking.
Aside from that lets ignore that most gun deaths are from pistols, not scary 'assault weapons'.
Aside from that lets ignore that most gun deaths are from pistols, not scary 'assault weapons'.
2
As an American living in the Middle East, I can see the results of a reinforcing feedback loop of hate and violence. What worries me about this attack and others like it in America and Europe is that they are not bringing out the best in the West, but are instead bringing out our worst in ways that simply fosters conditions for more violence and more hatred, as I write here: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/orlando-terror-sad-reminder-rise-hate-vio... This coming election will show the world whether American chooses to succum to more hate and more violence or works to resist these forces.
5
The FBI office that let this killer roam free should be shut down and all its 'agents' fired. Let the Congress pass legislation revising the protocols used by the FBI to detain threats to the United States, even if it requires profiling and protective detention, and if necessary withdrawal of citizenship and Exile. Also, the father here was running for a public office outside the United States; that should also be grounds for revoking citizenship.
8
The FBI has been effectively shut down, by the current Executive Branch.
2
"The FBI office that let this killer roam free"? What are you talking about?
And suggesting that all of the employees of whatever "office" you think you're referring to ought to be fired is plainly ridiculous. The FBI might not do a great job all the time, but I'm fairly sure they do a pretty good one consistently.
Though they are also plainly ridiculous quite often.
And what do you mean "Let the Congress"? As far as I know, in this country, we TELL the Congress what to do. Or so the rules say.
"We" are usually about as undemanding as earthworms as far as our influence on our "representatives."
It's totally not my fault. I say what's on my mind to my local politicians. Somehow, other people have more of their ear.
Hey, you want to change some laws, run for office or get on the phone to your local person.
Good luck.
And suggesting that all of the employees of whatever "office" you think you're referring to ought to be fired is plainly ridiculous. The FBI might not do a great job all the time, but I'm fairly sure they do a pretty good one consistently.
Though they are also plainly ridiculous quite often.
And what do you mean "Let the Congress"? As far as I know, in this country, we TELL the Congress what to do. Or so the rules say.
"We" are usually about as undemanding as earthworms as far as our influence on our "representatives."
It's totally not my fault. I say what's on my mind to my local politicians. Somehow, other people have more of their ear.
Hey, you want to change some laws, run for office or get on the phone to your local person.
Good luck.
2
Joel:
I strongly suspect the FBI was stymied by a PC mandated approach in it's dealings with Mateen. If not, then you're absolutely correct. As to Mateen's father, the Islamist pro-Taliban nut, revocation would be the ticket -- assuming, of course, that he IS a naturalized citizen and not just a long-time resident alien. If it's the latter, then out with him...
I strongly suspect the FBI was stymied by a PC mandated approach in it's dealings with Mateen. If not, then you're absolutely correct. As to Mateen's father, the Islamist pro-Taliban nut, revocation would be the ticket -- assuming, of course, that he IS a naturalized citizen and not just a long-time resident alien. If it's the latter, then out with him...
4
Trump wants to ban Muslims from entering the country, conveniently overlooking the fact that the shooter was born in USA. I suspect Trump will soon start advocating for rounding up all Muslims. After all, Trump gets all his ideas from 1930's Germany.
17
Yes, but more Muslim parents will come in otherwise, giving birth to terrorist offspring. So Trump is right: stop the enablers.
4
Lying about Donald Trump won't make America safer.
I am a Black lawyer in Washington DC, with a degree in American History and a Trump supporting, registered Republican.
Not one policy proposal or speech Donald Trump has given since declaring his candidacy for President of the United States contains a word written or spoken by any human being classified as a leader in 1930s Germany, whether political or military.
Lying about Donald Trump isn't going to make America safer.
Voting for Donald Trump will.
I am a Black lawyer in Washington DC, with a degree in American History and a Trump supporting, registered Republican.
Not one policy proposal or speech Donald Trump has given since declaring his candidacy for President of the United States contains a word written or spoken by any human being classified as a leader in 1930s Germany, whether political or military.
Lying about Donald Trump isn't going to make America safer.
Voting for Donald Trump will.
5
The shooter's father came here around 1980, from Afghanistan. He states he is a 'brother' of the Taliban.
The German National Socialist faction you allude to was allied with the Muslim world, to the extent that Arab Muslims enthusiastically volunteered to fight with the Axis. The Grand Mufti of Palestine personally assisted in that effort.
The German National Socialist faction you allude to was allied with the Muslim world, to the extent that Arab Muslims enthusiastically volunteered to fight with the Axis. The Grand Mufti of Palestine personally assisted in that effort.
4
Here we are reading more about another horrific tragedy and the two contestants for the white house either want to go and ban muslims from entering or go after them 'wherever they are'.
When will this country start to wake up and understand that the biggest threat to this country are weapons and barging into other countries and killing innocent civilians to 'defend' this country makes it worse.
Isn't there a way to lawyer the NRA into an international terror group and go after them?
When will this country start to wake up and understand that the biggest threat to this country are weapons and barging into other countries and killing innocent civilians to 'defend' this country makes it worse.
Isn't there a way to lawyer the NRA into an international terror group and go after them?
9
When buying a military assault rifle - think of the U.S. Army's battle at Hamburger Hill in Viet Nam - raises no more notice than buying a ham sandwich, what do we think's going to happen? It's only a question of how often.
6
the AR15 is not a military assault rife.
3
The gun used is a civilian weapon, which has some similarities to an M16, but it is not a 'military' weapon. The AR14 was sold to civilians __before__ the M16 was adopted by the Army. The gun used was less powerful than a common rifle from 1918.
What you fail to acknowledge is that guns are deadly because they fire bullets. if it doesn't fire bullets, or does so badly, it's not a good gun. If it does, it is deadly if misused.
The terrorist was an employee of US Homeland Security, and his father is with the Taliban. He was not fired despite his Islamic ties and violent personality, because "Islamophobia'.
Every gun control scheme in the US exempts the government, and does nothing to disarm foreign armies. If your gun control dream program were enacted, the shooter would still be armed.
What you fail to acknowledge is that guns are deadly because they fire bullets. if it doesn't fire bullets, or does so badly, it's not a good gun. If it does, it is deadly if misused.
The terrorist was an employee of US Homeland Security, and his father is with the Taliban. He was not fired despite his Islamic ties and violent personality, because "Islamophobia'.
Every gun control scheme in the US exempts the government, and does nothing to disarm foreign armies. If your gun control dream program were enacted, the shooter would still be armed.
4
I'm about as tolerant about Islam and its gay hating Sharia law as I am about the KKK. Both preach racist, sexist, homophobic, Jew hating views that are utterly incompatible with modern society. Would you hire, socialize, or live near a KKK member? So what's different with Muslims?
22
"Would you hire, socialize, or live near a KKK member? So what's different with Muslims?"
KKK members consider themselves Christian, so I guess you would have to forgo hiring, socializing, or living near any Christians as well.
KKK members consider themselves Christian, so I guess you would have to forgo hiring, socializing, or living near any Christians as well.
2
All religion preaches stupidity, beginning with the canard that there's some higher power.
2
Is KKK a Christian organization? Not all Muslims are terrorists just like not all Christians are KKK members.
3
I am grief stricken and enraged at this most recent example of hate and bigotry run rampant. My heart is with the victims, their families and friends. I am also tired of ranting about the upsurge in violence in contemporary American life, egged on by one whose name I refuse to speak. I would like to make one observation, though, and it is not meant in any way to detract from the horror of what happened at Pulse. The press keeps referring to this event as "the worst shooting in U.S. history." Does no one remember Wounded Knee? Comparisons are always dangerous. All act that take lives--whether the Middle Passage, Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire, or 9/11--are horrendous.
4
Here we go again, and it seems the liberal left learns .... nothing.
If any other murderer on earth publicly declares, before or after, the reasons for his actions, there is very little doubting his sincerity.
But time after time, islamists declare they are carrying out murder and destruction on behalf of islam, and the united voice of the liberal left says: "No!"
It is George Bush, it is guns, it is social inequality, it is the government, it is, well, absolutely anything Except what these evil murders clearly declare, over and over: it is on behalf of islam.
It is on behalf of islam.
It is on behalf of islam.
No???!
If any other murderer on earth publicly declares, before or after, the reasons for his actions, there is very little doubting his sincerity.
But time after time, islamists declare they are carrying out murder and destruction on behalf of islam, and the united voice of the liberal left says: "No!"
It is George Bush, it is guns, it is social inequality, it is the government, it is, well, absolutely anything Except what these evil murders clearly declare, over and over: it is on behalf of islam.
It is on behalf of islam.
It is on behalf of islam.
No???!
20
Remember Staff Sergeant Robert Bales.
Culturally, it just might be some of us scream Geronimo, Get Them God, or Away We GO! It depends on how you spent your days off as a child.
I think you are a hood trying to get a wink off another of your Russian collaborators, myself.
You know better than I do, Thai more likely call for their Mother!
I think you are a hood trying to get a wink off another of your Russian collaborators, myself.
You know better than I do, Thai more likely call for their Mother!
I prefer to remember Robert Marshall, USDA inspector cornering a corner on the ammonium nitrate market, Billy Sol Estes. How did that sheriff conclude he shot himself twice in the back with his own gun? NRA expertease?
He was a bigot. His father was likely a bigot. This is a family system issue. He thought he was better than everyone else and hated everyone. This is why he killed. It sounds like he was mentally unstable. Mental health services are hard to find. He had access to guns thanks to lax gun regulation. This is how he killed.
Trump is a bigot. If we elect him there will be more violence in my opinion.
Trump is a bigot. If we elect him there will be more violence in my opinion.
11
The biggest racists in government are/were Obama and Holder
6
Who both report to Rep. Barbara Lee, Larry, lest she take them to the woodshed, again. That's why Holder bailed, Brian Williams said.
The founding fathers clearly did not want every American to have the ability to kill dozens of their fellow citizens should they so desire. The second amendment does not seem to grant people the right to nuclear weapons or even artillery.
I say we go back to strict constructionalism and make the second amendment only apply to muskets.
I say we go back to strict constructionalism and make the second amendment only apply to muskets.
8
Great idea! I guess the First Amendment will apply only to the town crier and hand-printed 1-page brochures; there were the media at the time of the Constitution. Government can censor the internet, tv, radio, mass-printed newspapers, etc. The Bill of Rights applies only to Christians since all the Founding Fathers were Christians. Unreasonable search and seizure applies only to your horse-drawn carriage and one-room log cabin, right??
5
Prayers don't stop assault weapons.
Congress, where is your courage, your humanity?
Is the almighty dollar only worthy of your representation?
Reinstate the assault weapons ban. Now.
Congress, where is your courage, your humanity?
Is the almighty dollar only worthy of your representation?
Reinstate the assault weapons ban. Now.
11
Prayers don't stop election campaigns either, I now know.
1
Had this not been a gun free zone, what we might have had was a bunch of armed people who, after a few drinks and caught off guard, began firing back amidst the chaos, in the dark, amidst the distraction explosions set off by the SWAT, out of sheer terror. Many more would have died as a result of such conditions. But this is how gun advocates think: They believe that guns turn people into superheroes and give them magical powers to conquer all. It's a fantasy concocted in the basement of parents' homes, after playing video games and reading gun magazines, and talking to like-minded co-workers during lunch breaks at the mall. This is the childlike mentality we are allowing to determine policy in this nation. Look up whether your own U.S. Congressional representatives receive money from the NRA and, if so, vote them out. If you don't, you are part of this problem and you have blood on your hands, just as they do.
8
Or he may have been shot before he killed so many. I am a pacifist not a gun owner and don't belive we should have assault weapons in the first place. However; with the current state of affairs it seems people should have the right to defend themselves since the FBI isn't doing its job and the NBA has bought and payed Congress
1
Nonsense. We have people carrying guns all over the place. They never do anything. They aren't out there preventing crime. They are out there carrying guns and FANTASIZING about preventing crime, not quite the same thing. We need methods of violence prevention other than the ridiculous fantasies of useless gun toters. Our kids' lives depend on it.
4
Larry, there WERE armed men in the club and they did squat. Have you ever been in a dance club? They're slightly brighter than the inside of a cave. EVERYONE could've had a gun and they might not have been able to see who was shooting. Of course, if many people had guns inside the club, then the death toll would have been MUCH higher as well-intentioned Rambos would've smoked plenty of innocent bystanders or each other.
You need to stop watching Red Dawn and take a good look at the 5-digit death tolls guns wreak on our nation every year. Every day in America, 297 people will be shot, 89 of them will die (figures from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.) We plant nearly 30,000 Americans in the ground annually because people like you think unfettered access to guns somehow makes us safer.
You need to stop watching Red Dawn and take a good look at the 5-digit death tolls guns wreak on our nation every year. Every day in America, 297 people will be shot, 89 of them will die (figures from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.) We plant nearly 30,000 Americans in the ground annually because people like you think unfettered access to guns somehow makes us safer.
2
There is no need for anyone to have access to an automatic or semi-automatic rifle.
There is no need for anyone to have a pistol that hold more than 4 rounds and is larger than 0.38 calibre.
Will the government please do its duty and remove these overtly dangerous weapons.
There is no need for anyone to have a pistol that hold more than 4 rounds and is larger than 0.38 calibre.
Will the government please do its duty and remove these overtly dangerous weapons.
12
Start with the criminals first.
4
Hillary Clinton caused me to reassess some of my idiotic comments. She is quite a game changer.
1
She says Trump's talk is inciting Muslims. I think it goes deeper dear. Much deeper. The Bushes, your husband, and other laughing geniuses. We are at war. You want to disarm responsible Americans, well dear...we are at war. Why on earth would you want to disarm us.
8
@Whelp Warren
A war generally has two sides, but here in the 21st Century our current administration has redefined the term. Our POTUS apparently believes that unless WE say there is a war there is no war, and it matters not what the people attacking us think...
Ah, it seems Mr. Carroll had us in mind:
"There is a place. Like no place on Earth. A land full of wonder, mystery, and danger! Some say to survive it: You need to be as mad as a hatter."
A war generally has two sides, but here in the 21st Century our current administration has redefined the term. Our POTUS apparently believes that unless WE say there is a war there is no war, and it matters not what the people attacking us think...
Ah, it seems Mr. Carroll had us in mind:
"There is a place. Like no place on Earth. A land full of wonder, mystery, and danger! Some say to survive it: You need to be as mad as a hatter."
3
There is a law against mass murder...
Sometimes laws are not enough to prevent crimes.
Ban guns if you like, but unless the ban starts with the police, it is not going to work. When the police lay down their arms and the military comes home to stay, there will be peace. Until then, there will not be peace.
Full disclosure: I am 64, vegetarian, pacifist, and atheist. I am not a gun owner, never have been a gun owner, and never will be a gun owner.
Shut down the military machine...stop the killing you control.
Sometimes laws are not enough to prevent crimes.
Ban guns if you like, but unless the ban starts with the police, it is not going to work. When the police lay down their arms and the military comes home to stay, there will be peace. Until then, there will not be peace.
Full disclosure: I am 64, vegetarian, pacifist, and atheist. I am not a gun owner, never have been a gun owner, and never will be a gun owner.
Shut down the military machine...stop the killing you control.
2
I wish that the FBI had spent as much time investigating this man as they are spending investigating Hillary Clinton.
22
Hillary shouldn't have broken the law, then she would have to be investigated
4
Larry, She could not have broken a law that did not exist.
1
Two questions (they may have been answered in the article; if so, I missed them):
1. Since the Times headline refers to the "gunman" as having killed 49, then should i assume it has been confirmed none were killed by the guns of others (like the police), and
2. News accounts say the gunman lived with his small son. If he was as crazy as his former wife said he was, how come she didn't have custody of the young son?
1. Since the Times headline refers to the "gunman" as having killed 49, then should i assume it has been confirmed none were killed by the guns of others (like the police), and
2. News accounts say the gunman lived with his small son. If he was as crazy as his former wife said he was, how come she didn't have custody of the young son?
5
The shooter was an American born US citizen.
Yet Mr. Trump considers him an alien.
He also purchased his arsenal legally.
What kind of rationale is the NRA going to use to justify the need for anyone to have the type and quantity of weapons he had?
Yet Mr. Trump considers him an alien.
He also purchased his arsenal legally.
What kind of rationale is the NRA going to use to justify the need for anyone to have the type and quantity of weapons he had?
5
shooter was an islamic terrorist with US citizenship
9
He was a deranged American citizen. He could've called 911 nad pledged allegiance to The Good Humaor Man. The facts are that he was a U.S-born American citizen who purchased his weapons legally.
1
Some people have said that good guys with guns could have taken out the killer. I disagree with that whole line of argument.
How many more victims would there have been if some wannabe hero started spraying bullets all over the place?
Accurately shooting a gun is hard enough at the shooting range. In a chaotic situation even a trained police officer is challenged.
In fact even the police don't want shooters trying to take charge as they could possibly be mistaken as someone in league with the perpetrator and be shot by the police.
How many more victims would there have been if some wannabe hero started spraying bullets all over the place?
Accurately shooting a gun is hard enough at the shooting range. In a chaotic situation even a trained police officer is challenged.
In fact even the police don't want shooters trying to take charge as they could possibly be mistaken as someone in league with the perpetrator and be shot by the police.
5
Having just read Barney Frank's response, I am hopeful that LGBTs will be the ones to ultimately save us from Islamic terrorism at home. He correctly deflected his focus from the anti-gay bigotry of this lone murderer to the radical, hateful and violent jihadist Islamic inspiration for his actions. If this murderer had been inspired by radical, hateful, violent "End Times" fundamentalist Christian theology and rhetoric I would say the same. It is not a matter of tarring all Muslims with the actions of a few but of recognizing the role of religion in the warped thinking and deadly actions of those few. There is a minority of so-called Christians in our country who are preaching hate and giving cover to anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-government and racist murderers and they are equally culpable. Republican politicians who take up those "Christian" causes in local, state and national government are perhaps the worst and most blameworthy of the lot because they have the power and the protection of law to do their dirty work without firing a shot. They work safely in their gun-free federal office buildings, state legislatures and courthouses while they do nothing to protect the rest of us from weapons of mass murder and the deranged individuals who murder their wives, children, ex-girlfriends, in-laws, schoolchildren and teachers, employers and co-workers, moviegoers and innocent bystanders to drug and gang wars. They are despicable.
6
The FBI interviewed Mateen three times, yet perceived him as a blowhard -- were any of those FBI agents female? Black? Gay? Because agents who were not straight white males might have picked up on more clues from an interviewee who, post-2009, at least, professed hatred for them. In addition, why did the FBI apparently not interview his ex-wife and former co-workers, who experienced firsthand his spewed hatred and violence? If I wanted to learn if a man was prone to terrorism, I would certainly want to hear the account of an ex-wife whose parents literally had to drag her from him after repeated beatings. She would relate a detailed blow-by-blow of the root of domestic terrorism.
5
Pretend that it wasn't a terrorist act.
9
He was an amateur lawman who could talk the talk. They respect that.
1
The same means were used in Orlando, Newtown, Aurora, San Bernardino, and on and on: WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. The Orlando massacre, the greatest mass killing in the US since 9/11, was abetted by those who turn a blind eye to the use of automatic and semi-automatic, modifiable weapons that ferosciously discharge dozens of rounds. The insanely easy and legal availability of these WMD must stop. Every sentient citizen in this country recognizes that WMD rifles and guns fundamentally jeopardize the human right to life. The federal laws must change.
8
I don't even know where to start but I'll just say that this is something that shouldn't be wish among any community! People are human no matter their race, sexually , culture , religion etc. Not only do the people who lose their loved ones suffer from this act but also everyone in the world feels the lost; weather you're related to the people who died in any way or not it still affects you to know that humans are actually doing things to harm eachother. It's really sad and extremely wrong to live in a world where people judge and bring down one another because of what they believe in. Everyone should be able to express themselves and not feel in danger for being who they are.
1
I wonder why there isn't better coordination between the FBI and local police. This guy was interrogated twice. He went to Saudi Arabia twice and passed through the UAE. He was never convicted of a crime so he would pass a Brady check which is probably why he could be hired by a security company and issued a license. There are so many cracks in the system it's ridiculous. The candidates and the various commentators should be talking about these issues and not get caught up in the superfluous never-ending debate about gun control. I do believe the Obama administration has an antipathy to working with police departments because of the politics of so-called "police violence" and pressure from the left. This is another issue which needs to be brought out in the open.
9
Lack of coordination issues usually comes with the inefficiencies of massive bureaucracies and as result of wanting to protect their turf, the inability or the desire not to communicate with another is the result. 9/11 was the perfect example, both the FBI and CIA had warning signs, yet, failed to communicate with one another on their intelligence, hence, the terrible result.
No doubt, another example here, however, this guy did not live in the area.
No doubt, another example here, however, this guy did not live in the area.
2
He lived two hours away. The internet doesn't reach that far.
This is my addition to my first response yesterday. As I mentioned the majority of mass murders here in America have been from Anglo Saxon perpetrators, not Muslims. Also in the latest three, FT. Hood, Aurora and South Carolina to name a few, authorities, employees and business owners alerted higher authorities of multiple consistent behavioral disorders from these individuals, yet nothing was done about it. So until America addresses and cures the actual cause of these massacres instead of pointing the finger at a scapegoat, the problem will continue and spread. "You reap what you sow."
4
The world is full of lone wolves and unpredictable amateurs: how do these fools get away with it? No one else tries.
2
The Orlando shooter had been indoctrinated with his religion by well-meaning parents.
We now know our minds are not fully developed until we reach our mid to late twenties. Poisoning a child’s mind before it has developed enough for critical thinking, logic and reason should be just as much a criminal offense as sexually abusing their bodies.
If we could summon the courage to wait until our children reach the age of 25 before attempting to indoctrinate them, religion would quickly die out. It wouldn’t solve all our problems on this little planet, but it would be a good start. And it's very unlikely this horrible event would have taken place.
We will never solve our problems thrashing around in the branches. We must take our axe to the root. Religion is the root.
We now know our minds are not fully developed until we reach our mid to late twenties. Poisoning a child’s mind before it has developed enough for critical thinking, logic and reason should be just as much a criminal offense as sexually abusing their bodies.
If we could summon the courage to wait until our children reach the age of 25 before attempting to indoctrinate them, religion would quickly die out. It wouldn’t solve all our problems on this little planet, but it would be a good start. And it's very unlikely this horrible event would have taken place.
We will never solve our problems thrashing around in the branches. We must take our axe to the root. Religion is the root.
9
Well-meaning parents do not preach Muslim hate
4
Look, the guy was on steroids and destroyed his marriage to a beautiful woman, and you can't see the suicide by cop OJ didn't have the core to hold on to?
Classic case of putting guns in the hands of a twenty-something who has started to signs of bipolar disorder.
The politicians don't care. They have their money. The only question is where, not when will the next mass shooting occurs.
The politicians don't care. They have their money. The only question is where, not when will the next mass shooting occurs.
6
Despite what the NRA would have you believe, Omar Mateen is not what the 2nd amendment intended as a "well regulated militia"
10
The Times' sidebar What Happened Inside the Orlando Nightclub includes a drawing of the club's layout without indicating emergency exits. Eventually we will learn whether this building had a certificate of occupancy for the 300 or more patrons reported inside, whether there were sufficient well-marked exits that led directly out rather than to a fenced patio, and whether these premises and other places of public assembly in Orlando are regularly inspected for compliance with building and fire codes. The unfortunate comparison may turn out be to the 2003 Station nightclub fire in West Warwick, Rhode Island where 100 died trying to flee.
3
I am so sick and tired of hearing the same rhetoric about mental health issue and the nonsensical guessing about what made this person do this.
The sad fact is that guns have killed more people in the USA than all the casualties in all the wars in the world since WWII. The massacres make the headlines , but every single day countless Americans are killed by guns right here at home.
How is it possible that one can buy assault weapons and endless amounts of ammunition? It is simply unacceptable to be selling military equipment to the general public, and this had NOTHING to do with the second amendment.
What kind of country do we want to live in? The rest of the world is appalled by our apathy to violence.
The sad fact is that guns have killed more people in the USA than all the casualties in all the wars in the world since WWII. The massacres make the headlines , but every single day countless Americans are killed by guns right here at home.
How is it possible that one can buy assault weapons and endless amounts of ammunition? It is simply unacceptable to be selling military equipment to the general public, and this had NOTHING to do with the second amendment.
What kind of country do we want to live in? The rest of the world is appalled by our apathy to violence.
15
Add a victim tax to gun purchases (proceeds to go to the families) and have gun owners carry insurance policies. That way at least there is some universal taking of responsibility. I'm surprised this doesn't already exist. Even a doctor is covered by malpractice insurance if his knife slips.
7
This is an unfathomable tragedy, and I cannot imagine the suffering of the victims and their families. Undoubtedly, mental illness, political extremism, hatred of a vulnerable community, and availability of automatic weapons played a role in this horrific crime.
Also, in Chicago on Memorial Day weekend, something like 64 people were shot. I think this should also be considered a major US mass shooting. And I believe the communities subjected to such violence are also profoundly and obscenely terrorized in a way we cannot tolerate. Stop the violence now.
Also, in Chicago on Memorial Day weekend, something like 64 people were shot. I think this should also be considered a major US mass shooting. And I believe the communities subjected to such violence are also profoundly and obscenely terrorized in a way we cannot tolerate. Stop the violence now.
4
He didn't have an automatic weapon.
5
Automatic weapons have been banned for decades.
these are the uneducated fools who want to abolish the Constitution and make themselves dictators
these are the uneducated fools who want to abolish the Constitution and make themselves dictators
4
First off, so what. Second off, you don't know that: kits and instructions for full-auto conversions are all over the Internet.
Please stop quibblng over nomenclature. Oh, and by the way--in actual military combat, full auto very rarely gets used by professionals.
Please stop quibblng over nomenclature. Oh, and by the way--in actual military combat, full auto very rarely gets used by professionals.
5
The worst massacre in US History was Wounded Knee in 1890. But this in now way lessens the horror of this attack, and the lack of effective gun control in the USA, where more Americians have been killed by domestic gun violence than in all wars.
5
@ns,
And in France which has strict and effective gun control laws, did that stop the massacres? As for the Wounded Knee comment, well lets try to stay within a 100 years at least when trying to make a point that's relevant.
And in France which has strict and effective gun control laws, did that stop the massacres? As for the Wounded Knee comment, well lets try to stay within a 100 years at least when trying to make a point that's relevant.
7
Wounded knee was an attempt to disarm native Americans. And it apparently worked.
4
Although I have already posted comments on this article, I have neglected to offer my heartfelt sympathy for each Pulse victim and his survivors, and for the Orlando gay community which has taken such a huge blow, and to the gay community in general for finding itself once more a target for hatred, and for all of the random victims of crazed murderers, and of fundamentalist religions, and for my own dear country which is suffering from the poison of unrelenting and unnecessary violence.
4
ISIS propaganda machine lives in its own fame, Such as Orlando attack, The alleged collaboration is nothing but just attacker publicity stunt. Apparently there is no organic connection like San Bernardino attackers.
So I believe, because these type of news are so provocative for other lone wolf, Why US actively bugging their web sites and face book pages and making their propaganda machine sputter.
I believe at this moment one of the most important measure against the ISIS terrorism
So I believe, because these type of news are so provocative for other lone wolf, Why US actively bugging their web sites and face book pages and making their propaganda machine sputter.
I believe at this moment one of the most important measure against the ISIS terrorism
It is so tiring to hear gun-loving politicians shrug and say, "The laws would not have stopped this from happening," like Marco Rubio did yesterday. Instead of being dismissive, can they just think ahead to what might stop the next one?
19
OR, if one of the 49 who was killed was on of their loved ones.
1
The weapon(s) used in this attack performed expressly as designed and for the purpose they were created.
4
One thing I still don't understand in this particular situation. OK, not everybody is a hero. But in this case they had over 300 people present. In a fight-or-flight situation, wouldn't somebody try to overpower the gunman? I know that if I thought I was going to die anyhow, I would go down swinging. And please, I'm not blaming the victims, who must have been terrified. But inaction might not be the best course in such cases with so many people present.
3
Is this a tragedy or a video game? Because if it's a tragedy, then maybe the media should stop showcasing the death toll like it's a new high score to be broken. There is an entire NYT article detailing the gunman, the scenario, and his guns of choice, and it went so far as to put his name in a lineup against past mass murderers, ordered by death toll. What exactly is that supposed to accomplish?
8
Am I being too simplistic in thinking that banning semi-automatic weapons would be a step in the right direction? There is only one use for them: mass killings
7
Virtually all firearms are semi-automatic. If you beleive in banning firearms then say so and work to eliminate the second amendment. There is a process for that.
7
Except revolvers, most shotguns, bolt-action rifles, and so on.
And if we're gonna be picky, the kind of rifle this clown used was explicitly designed for high rates of fire, and to be light and easy to shoot on the run.
That's why they're called "assault rifles." And marketed as such.
And if we're gonna be picky, the kind of rifle this clown used was explicitly designed for high rates of fire, and to be light and easy to shoot on the run.
That's why they're called "assault rifles." And marketed as such.
4
Only by willful pretense can we ignore the inevitable consequences of hatred and violence, whether enacted on our behalf by our government, by armed individuals, or in the speech of politicians looking to make hay by fanning the flames of intolerance toward the "other".
3
"A former co-worker, Daniel Gilroy, said Mr. Mateen had talked often about killing people and had voiced hatred of gays, blacks, women and Jews."
--------------
"The F.B.I. investigated Mr. Mateen in 2013 when he made comments to co-workers suggesting he had terrorist ties..."
-----------
No evidence of a psychosis on either occasion, of course.
What frightening existential blindness on the part of a nation with a death-grip on abstract freedoms.
--------------
"The F.B.I. investigated Mr. Mateen in 2013 when he made comments to co-workers suggesting he had terrorist ties..."
-----------
No evidence of a psychosis on either occasion, of course.
What frightening existential blindness on the part of a nation with a death-grip on abstract freedoms.
7
If you oppose banning the purchase of semi-automatic weapons by civilians, you are soft on terror.
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
5
Omar Mateen called the cops to pledge his fealty to ISIS as he was carrying out his mass murder in Orlando early Sunday. Twelve hours later, the president of the United States declared that “we have no definitive assessment on the motivation” of Omar Mateen but that “we know he was a person filled with hate.”
So I guess the president thinks Mateen didn’t mean it?
Here again, and horribly, we have an unmistakable indication that Obama finds it astonishingly easy to divorce himself from a reality he doesn’t like — the reality of the Islamist terror war against the United States and how it is moving to our shores in the form of lone-wolf attacks.
So determined is the president to avoid the subject of Islamist, ISIS-inspired or ISIS-directed terrorism that he concluded his remarks with an astonishing insistence that “we need the strength and courage to change” our attitudes toward the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community.
That’s just disgusting. There’s no other word for it.
America’s national attitude toward LGBT people didn’t shoot up the Pulse nightclub.
An Islamist terrorist waging war against the United States killed and injured 103 people on our soil. We Americans do not bear collective responsibility for this attack. Quite the opposite.
To suggest we must look inward to explain this is not only unseemly but practically an act of conscious misdirection on the president’ s part to direct out attention away from Omar Mateen’s phone call.
So I guess the president thinks Mateen didn’t mean it?
Here again, and horribly, we have an unmistakable indication that Obama finds it astonishingly easy to divorce himself from a reality he doesn’t like — the reality of the Islamist terror war against the United States and how it is moving to our shores in the form of lone-wolf attacks.
So determined is the president to avoid the subject of Islamist, ISIS-inspired or ISIS-directed terrorism that he concluded his remarks with an astonishing insistence that “we need the strength and courage to change” our attitudes toward the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community.
That’s just disgusting. There’s no other word for it.
America’s national attitude toward LGBT people didn’t shoot up the Pulse nightclub.
An Islamist terrorist waging war against the United States killed and injured 103 people on our soil. We Americans do not bear collective responsibility for this attack. Quite the opposite.
To suggest we must look inward to explain this is not only unseemly but practically an act of conscious misdirection on the president’ s part to direct out attention away from Omar Mateen’s phone call.
17
Clearly you've never heard of Columbine, Oklahoma City, Newtown, CT., Aurora, CO, Santa Barbara, CA, and on and on. Where should we look for all of those instances, if not "inward?" I would point out that this man was an American citizen.
11
And who are YOU running interference for?
49 innocent people dead, another four dozen wounded, and you clowns think sniping at the President like this is the thing to do.
49 innocent people dead, another four dozen wounded, and you clowns think sniping at the President like this is the thing to do.
4
It's funny how the majority of all these people committing massacres in the states lately have one thing in common, no not skin color or religion, they are mainly millennials, a generation suppressed with debt and unaffordable housing, I wonder if this is them acting out, and if they're not millennials they are lower income people that are struggling to get by in the society we've created. I'm still to hear a massacre be put on by a rich millionaire, not gonna happen, life is too good in paradise, so there is no point in acting out in such an extreme manner. But what the hell let's just blame isis instead, it's easier to fix that problem. A sad event of course, however it keeps happening, so are we really directing our attention to the actual problem, or just diverting attention at this point?
1
That is why even after a terrible incident such as this it will ultimately, end up on the scrap pile of yesterdays new in the U.S. media and it will soon be business as usual and all will be forgotten. Americans have generally short memories, of course, until the next time and the arguments and rage will start all over again.
What is that old saying? Those that do not learn from history are..........
What is that old saying? Those that do not learn from history are..........
1
For those wanting to know more about the family background of the attacker, the best (only?) media information available is published at www.faz.net (in German) at
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/amerika/vater-von-orlando-att...
This text discusses in detail the paramilitary leanings of his father.
If there are texts anywhere else in France or Germany, I will post links here.
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/amerika/vater-von-orlando-att...
This text discusses in detail the paramilitary leanings of his father.
If there are texts anywhere else in France or Germany, I will post links here.
5
ISIS is in its death throes. I expect more atrocities until the head of the last of those credulous little nihilists is raised on a pike (and, surrounded by Kurds, Alowhites, and Shias, that's exactly what will happen--there's not much we can do about it now).
But let's at least show the world that we are different. That we don't choose our leaders by their ability to express our hatreds. Let's make it clear to our LGBT friends that we aren't merely tolerant of them, but that they are part of us. We stand together, and an attack against one is an attack against all. E pluribus unum.
I'm straight, but I'm raising my rainbow flag--you attack them, you attack me. I will stand with them until I fall.
But let's at least show the world that we are different. That we don't choose our leaders by their ability to express our hatreds. Let's make it clear to our LGBT friends that we aren't merely tolerant of them, but that they are part of us. We stand together, and an attack against one is an attack against all. E pluribus unum.
I'm straight, but I'm raising my rainbow flag--you attack them, you attack me. I will stand with them until I fall.
15
When will Donald Trump and the reactionaries who support him realize that banning Muslim immigrants would be an exercise in futility. First, this guy and almost all those like him were born in the US. Not immigrants. Are we planning on directly violating the constitution and creating laws that ban Islam in America? (Never mind that such laws would be completely unenforceable and would probably provoke even more hate against the US, thus inspiring more terror attacks). Second, how exactly would anyone be able to prove that they are or are not Muslim when crossing the border? Why wouldn't a terrorist just lie and say he was Christian or Hindu or something? There's absolutely no way the border authorities would be able to tell the difference.
The truth is, we cannot keep terrorists out of our country. They are born here every day. The only thing we can do is remain vigilant and report any suspicious activities. The Orlando attacker had a lot of warning signs, yet he was still allowed to legally purchase powerful firearms. He was investigated, but allowed to remain free. He abused his wife, proving violent tendencies, but none of this stopped him from being a, presumably armed, security guard. It seems to me that he could have been stopped if someone had just connected all the dots and if there'd been a law banning mentally unstable, violent people from buying firearms.
The truth is, we cannot keep terrorists out of our country. They are born here every day. The only thing we can do is remain vigilant and report any suspicious activities. The Orlando attacker had a lot of warning signs, yet he was still allowed to legally purchase powerful firearms. He was investigated, but allowed to remain free. He abused his wife, proving violent tendencies, but none of this stopped him from being a, presumably armed, security guard. It seems to me that he could have been stopped if someone had just connected all the dots and if there'd been a law banning mentally unstable, violent people from buying firearms.
17
Had his father, a member of the Taliban clan not been allowed entry, the Orlando incident would not have occurred.
3
The President will be hosting a summit at the UN on Sept. 20, called the "Global Refugee Crisis". Where he will pushing through 10,000 plus Syrians to come and immigrate to America. Pay attention.
9
It is time for America to wake up.
We have a society that glorifies violence - video games, movies etc - that has desensitized an entire generation. Add in this same generation seems unable to live independently and if so, too often, it is a hourly job with little or no future. Hopelessness sets in ...
Some become tea party members. Some become Occupy Wall Street members. Some find comfort in religion.
And then a small segment, probably already unstable, find justification in violence in religion.
And then they walk down the street and by semi automatic weapons and act out ... violently.
This country has never been perfect. It has its history of enslavement, indentured servitude, racism ... all of it. But at all times we "kept hope alive" for a better day for us or our children or our children's children.
We cannot solve for racism per se. We will have issues with jobs. But we cannot limit the supply of weapons. We need politicians to go beyond speeches and finger pointing and do something real.
Or these terror acts will continue ... and continue.
We have a society that glorifies violence - video games, movies etc - that has desensitized an entire generation. Add in this same generation seems unable to live independently and if so, too often, it is a hourly job with little or no future. Hopelessness sets in ...
Some become tea party members. Some become Occupy Wall Street members. Some find comfort in religion.
And then a small segment, probably already unstable, find justification in violence in religion.
And then they walk down the street and by semi automatic weapons and act out ... violently.
This country has never been perfect. It has its history of enslavement, indentured servitude, racism ... all of it. But at all times we "kept hope alive" for a better day for us or our children or our children's children.
We cannot solve for racism per se. We will have issues with jobs. But we cannot limit the supply of weapons. We need politicians to go beyond speeches and finger pointing and do something real.
Or these terror acts will continue ... and continue.
3
So just to clarify - when a Stanford swimmer from "white privilege" uses alcohol as a means to rape a woman and as an excuse for his crime, that creates a national outcry because as these two national wirters recently argued the alcohol didn't make any difference, they would have done anyway:
Alcohol isn't the cause of campus sexual assault. Men are. http://wpo.st/tM8f1
However, when a man of Afghan descent yelling "Allah Akbar" calls 911 to pledge allegiance to ISIS while using guns to kill 50 people, the means (which was his access to guns) is to blame, not him, or his ethnic origin, or the fact that he is a Muslim. Never mind the fact that they have successfully used planes to kill Americans, that they have taken planes down killing innocent people, that they use suicide vests packed with C4 and nails to kill themselves and innocent people (only a matter of time until it happens here) also, and that they have used IEDs to kill American soldiers. That's leaving aside a few of the more grisly recent innovative means - burning folks alive and skinning them alive. The common denominator isn't the means by which they kill, it is why they kill. Yes, plenty of folks hate Americans, just one group in particular is just much more extreme and innovative in their means by which they kill, and plan to kill, Americans.
Alcohol isn't the cause of campus sexual assault. Men are. http://wpo.st/tM8f1
However, when a man of Afghan descent yelling "Allah Akbar" calls 911 to pledge allegiance to ISIS while using guns to kill 50 people, the means (which was his access to guns) is to blame, not him, or his ethnic origin, or the fact that he is a Muslim. Never mind the fact that they have successfully used planes to kill Americans, that they have taken planes down killing innocent people, that they use suicide vests packed with C4 and nails to kill themselves and innocent people (only a matter of time until it happens here) also, and that they have used IEDs to kill American soldiers. That's leaving aside a few of the more grisly recent innovative means - burning folks alive and skinning them alive. The common denominator isn't the means by which they kill, it is why they kill. Yes, plenty of folks hate Americans, just one group in particular is just much more extreme and innovative in their means by which they kill, and plan to kill, Americans.
10
Just one thing: there are lots of Muslim Americans as well. There could have been Muslim Americans in that crowd of people. Any peace-loving person of any religion could just as easily have been a target.
It's not about the religion; it's about the actions of an unhappy, mentally ill individual who was deluding himself into thinking that claiming membership in a religious group would justify his actions.
It's not about the religion; it's about the actions of an unhappy, mentally ill individual who was deluding himself into thinking that claiming membership in a religious group would justify his actions.
I see the chickens running round without heads as usual. It's the Guns! It's The terrorists ! It's the immigration policy.
And as usual, the con artist carnival barker 'Trumplestiltskin" grosses everyone out while attempting to cash in.
The fault lay squarely on the republican politicians who laughed as President Obama cried while trying to get them to enact a policy that would have prevented psycho's like this from purchasing the Weapons used in this latest massacre of innocent happy people.
Enjoy your NRA money. Use some to buy a new suit to go to church in. The rest of it ? Your soul's can spend while you burn in the hell of your own making.
And as usual, the con artist carnival barker 'Trumplestiltskin" grosses everyone out while attempting to cash in.
The fault lay squarely on the republican politicians who laughed as President Obama cried while trying to get them to enact a policy that would have prevented psycho's like this from purchasing the Weapons used in this latest massacre of innocent happy people.
Enjoy your NRA money. Use some to buy a new suit to go to church in. The rest of it ? Your soul's can spend while you burn in the hell of your own making.
4
The Pulse nightclub was in a gun-free zone. Congratulations, you disarmed the victim but not the shooter!
5
No... Democrats aren't suggesting any gun control levitation that would lower gun violence numbers by even 10%. And lowering gun violence deaths to 27,000 a year isn't exactly the sign of a party obsessed with gun control. Both parties do not care at all about gun violence and both parties are simply playing politics with gun violence.
2
Predictable comments from Mr. Obama yesterday. No sir, I cannot help fear for my children and others affronting with this type of heinous terror. No human being should be heightened and alerted at all times when a person is going to movies, shopping, schools, traveling and a night out because of terrorists who are bent on killing massive people. Mr. Obama seems to once again ignore the bigger looming issues about the Islamic radical terrorists and how to defeat them. Instead, he sorely focuses on the gun control issue, setting the tone and shifting the blame. I am a steadfast gun control advocate, but I have disheartened the fact that Mr. Obama is very quick to calling this shooting as "an act of terror and an act of hate" linking this terror to guns and gun owners. Sadly he is silent about this heinous act is connected to radical Islamic terror sympathizers. The president telling us not to fear every time when an unimaginable terror happens, while deflecting the core problem, does not comfort me at all. In fact, I am sick of his hollow right tone and rhetoric.
8
Islamic terror kills a handful of Americans a year. 30k Americans die at the end of a gun every year.
Seems like any focus on Islamic terrorism is probably too much if we wanna lower actual gun deaths.
Seems like any focus on Islamic terrorism is probably too much if we wanna lower actual gun deaths.
5
In Israel, the homes of terrorists are destroyed to inflict damage on people who should have prevented the damage, fathers, mothers, wife, brothers and sisters.. Let's try that here!
8
This was encouraged by some deranged, hateful version of Islam, not the NRA.
If the murderer had driven a truck full-speed into the place and achieved the same result would anyone be blaming the car companies or the DMV?
If the murderer had driven a truck full-speed into the place and achieved the same result would anyone be blaming the car companies or the DMV?
9
People who deliberately try to kill others don't bother crashing cars into groups of people. Otherwise, we'd be seeing a lot more of those incidents. People who want to kill someone go out and buy guns specifically for that purpose and no other.
1
The FBI profiled every school shooter a few years back. They found two common links among them all. It was not race or religion. Every shooter was male and depressed. The sooner we realize that we have a huge mental health problem and the sooner we commit adequate resources and interventions to this problem, the sooner the myriad of problems facing the USA will go away.
Current good mental healthcare is prohibitively expensive and access to care is spotty at best. To have good care, one must have access to levels of cash the vast majority of Americans simply don't. As such, it is hard to properly diagnose and treat mental conditions, and for those with severe cases, the consequences are dire. Sufferers, lacking proper care, end up homeless, destitute, in prison, or much worse, behind an assault rifle pointed at masses of people.
With proper treatment, mental illness becomes as harmless as allergies. Sure it may flare up here and there but with the proper medicine and lifestyle adjustments, relief is there. But until we expand access to care for everybody, properly train and fund mental health professionals at all levels, from Kindergarten through university and to the workplaces beyond, we will find ourselves periodically being shocked and horrified at the carnage that man is capable of. A mental illness is not a diagnosis of death unless we continue to let it be. Remember, it's not just the patient's life that is at stake.
Current good mental healthcare is prohibitively expensive and access to care is spotty at best. To have good care, one must have access to levels of cash the vast majority of Americans simply don't. As such, it is hard to properly diagnose and treat mental conditions, and for those with severe cases, the consequences are dire. Sufferers, lacking proper care, end up homeless, destitute, in prison, or much worse, behind an assault rifle pointed at masses of people.
With proper treatment, mental illness becomes as harmless as allergies. Sure it may flare up here and there but with the proper medicine and lifestyle adjustments, relief is there. But until we expand access to care for everybody, properly train and fund mental health professionals at all levels, from Kindergarten through university and to the workplaces beyond, we will find ourselves periodically being shocked and horrified at the carnage that man is capable of. A mental illness is not a diagnosis of death unless we continue to let it be. Remember, it's not just the patient's life that is at stake.
6
somehow muslims are more prone to that mental condition lately, Mr. Abad.
5
They're under a lot of pressure from haters. With so many people expressing general hatred for Muslims, we can't really blame even ordinary Muslims from wondering if being a target of American persecution will lead to their own deaths, regardless of whether they are guilty of a crime or not. How would you feel if you lived in a country where your fellow Christians were regularly accused of being terrible people? Not even just the tiniest bit paranoid?
Three hours of negotiations with an Islamic terrorist who had already commuted mass murder? The SWAT team should be trained to go in right away! Why did he still have guns after coming on the FBI radar, twice? Why does the NRA and Republicans allows automatic weapons in the hands of common citizens? Some bureaucratic and legislative heads should roll! Start with the FBI, then the Orlando police, the the Republican senate.
4
Why do the Democrats disarm victims but not shooters? that what they did by making the Pulse nightclub a gun-free zone
4
"Why does the NRA and Republicans allows automatic weapons in the hands of common citizens?"
They do not. You should educate yourself on firearms.
They do not. You should educate yourself on firearms.
2
I still don't understand. To make, sell, buy or drive an auto in this country there are numerous universal safety regulations. They must be manufactured with various pieces of safety equipment e.g. air bags and emission controls, be registered and licensed within the state they are sold, inspected for safety annually in most if not all states. To own one you must insure it for liability at least. To drive it you need a photo id license and have passed a driving and a written test. You can be arrested for driving intoxicated by alcohol or drugs, dangerously or much too fast.
Thanks to the Congress, State Legislatures and the NRA, almost none of the above applies to gun manufacture, distribution and sales, purchase, ownership and in many cases use. Mandatory Federal background checks have loopholes and are obviously ineffective. Restrictions and checks on transfers between states in which they are easy to buy and those that have stricter gun control laws are non-existent.
Meanwhile guns are killing >20,000 people/year in this country.
Thanks to the Congress, State Legislatures and the NRA, almost none of the above applies to gun manufacture, distribution and sales, purchase, ownership and in many cases use. Mandatory Federal background checks have loopholes and are obviously ineffective. Restrictions and checks on transfers between states in which they are easy to buy and those that have stricter gun control laws are non-existent.
Meanwhile guns are killing >20,000 people/year in this country.
9
To the NRA and other gun advocates, collateral damage.
2
Remember Archie Bunker who played the father in the 70's tv sitcom All in the Family? His solution to the airplane hijacking crisis was to give each passenger a gun when they got on the plane and they could return the gun when they disembarked. We laughed at that logic back then. Now it is part of the Second Amendment/NRA spiel and not so funny...
With the laws in place, one terrorist that can pass a background test can equip dozens of fellow fighters. They know it... I can think of scenarios where a dozen well-armed terrorists could cause a billion dollars worth of damage to soft targets. Easily.
I think that the country will need to come around to a buy-out program based on national security alone. With 310,000,000+? privately owned weapons in the USA it is estimated that 2%-3% are assault style, so 6 to 9 million of those out there. Let's say ten million.
What would an assault weapon buyback look like? 10 million assault weapons times $500 average price would cost the country 5 billion dollars.
A drop in the trillion+ national budget (my brother bought his Chinese AK47 from a guy at church who had a case of ten, for $110 20 years ago, $500 is just an guess)... Or use a higher price per gun; like most things about USA gun ownership, no one knows for sure.
First step? Try to actually imagine an assault-weapon-free USA. How do we get there? Maybe with the dissolution of the Republican Party; now underway.
But both parties have shown close to equal cowardice...
With the laws in place, one terrorist that can pass a background test can equip dozens of fellow fighters. They know it... I can think of scenarios where a dozen well-armed terrorists could cause a billion dollars worth of damage to soft targets. Easily.
I think that the country will need to come around to a buy-out program based on national security alone. With 310,000,000+? privately owned weapons in the USA it is estimated that 2%-3% are assault style, so 6 to 9 million of those out there. Let's say ten million.
What would an assault weapon buyback look like? 10 million assault weapons times $500 average price would cost the country 5 billion dollars.
A drop in the trillion+ national budget (my brother bought his Chinese AK47 from a guy at church who had a case of ten, for $110 20 years ago, $500 is just an guess)... Or use a higher price per gun; like most things about USA gun ownership, no one knows for sure.
First step? Try to actually imagine an assault-weapon-free USA. How do we get there? Maybe with the dissolution of the Republican Party; now underway.
But both parties have shown close to equal cowardice...
8
Why oh why is our country ruled by religious conservative christians who oppose gun regulation and homosexuals? I am so sad.
5
Because this is a Christian majority country. This is not China or Saudi.
3
My daughter in Walnut Creek, with 5 kids, is not stopping her liberal husband, an engineer, from buying his 1st gun ever, age 34. It's about time!
5
Charles- he'd better hurry before Obama/Hillary confiscate them. From Americans, anyway
3
I am thinking we may see an increase of gay, lesbian and transgender NRA memberships. Just imagine if patrons had guns to protect themselves in that club instead of living in a non existent utopia where everyone is mentally stable and doesn't harm one another.
3
Did you read the article you are commenting on? Eight trained police officers were engaged in a shootout with the gunman -- this didn't seem to stop him.
Imagine hundreds of patrons with guns in a shootout at a dark dance club...now that would have been even worse.
The utopia you are talking about is also known as "The rest of the world". In Europe people with mental disabilities are taken care of and guns are not allowed in the hands of citizens.
Yeah, I've heard the argument that criminals will find a way to get guns, but of all the high profile shootings in the past ten years, none has been committed by a person with a criminal record.
Imagine hundreds of patrons with guns in a shootout at a dark dance club...now that would have been even worse.
The utopia you are talking about is also known as "The rest of the world". In Europe people with mental disabilities are taken care of and guns are not allowed in the hands of citizens.
Yeah, I've heard the argument that criminals will find a way to get guns, but of all the high profile shootings in the past ten years, none has been committed by a person with a criminal record.
5
I wonder how many of the 103 casualities wished they had a gun.
6
Probably not nearly as many as wished that the killer hadn't.
2
Not sure. But I am sure that 103 wished that assault weapons were not legal for purchase in this country. Don't blame the victims.
5
I am sure there would have been a great atmosphere in the club while everyone walked around looking like Buffalo Bill.
1
The simple fact is if there was a ban on these types of assault weapons and high capacity magazines you would not have this kind of mass carnage. Will we always be able to identify the lone wolf gunman, be it him, or her before they strike; sadly no. But we can limit the amount of distuction they can inflict on us by eliminating their weapon of choice. It's time Congress does its job and protect the people who elected them, rather than listen to the NRA that pays for their campaigns.
9
There is currently a ban on murder. Did that help?
5
All guns were already banned from Pulse- it is a gun-free zone. All gun control did was disarm the victims while leaving the shooter untouched
3
"The simple fact is if there was a ban on these types of assault weapons and high capacity magazines you would not have this kind of mass carnage. "
Sure. Great idea. But if bans are so effective, why don't we just ban murder?
Sure. Great idea. But if bans are so effective, why don't we just ban murder?
3
I cannot fathom the pain and grief that the families of the deceased are experiencing and will likely experience for the rest of their lives. I believe that the victims DO die in vain, because their lives should not serve as the catalyst for legislative (gun) reform and increased mental health resource allocation and access. The political and social issues that lie beneath the surface of this tragedy should be (or should have long ago been) resolved without bloodshed and pain.
1
The only thing that stops a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun.
Get your LTC, get trained, practice, and carry.
Get your LTC, get trained, practice, and carry.
6
Unfortunately for the victims but fortunately for ISIS, the Pulse nightclub is a gun-free zone
3
Well... Europe stops endless gun violence by not allowing bad people to have guns, largely. On the other hand the US has as many guns as people as loses 30k people a year to gun violence... And has for decades. And has a much lower murder rate.
Which seems like the more effective plan?
Which seems like the more effective plan?
3
Really? Because it seems to take a lot of trained law enforcement people to stop these gunmen. Do you really think a random guy with a handgun is going to take down someone like this?
Have you been involved, as a regular civilian, in this kind of scenario? Real life? Not a video game.
I wonder if you really know what you are talking about or are just spouting rhetoric from the NRA while you live in your cozy world.
Have you been involved, as a regular civilian, in this kind of scenario? Real life? Not a video game.
I wonder if you really know what you are talking about or are just spouting rhetoric from the NRA while you live in your cozy world.
3
History shows that if you really want to stop the seemingly impossible you have to be willing to take extraordinary measures. These kinds of mass murders, spurred by hate and fear, should not be allowed to happen in a civilized society. Of course we need to make it far harder for anyone to purchase, sell, trade, or pass on a gun. Of course all assault weapons should be forbidden to ordinary citizens, but who among us believe that will happen with the diabolical sway the NRA has over timid and cowardly legislators of both parties. How about this: make it illegal to profess allegiance to any terror or hate group, foreign or domestic. Any postings, writings, or proclamations to others should be investigated by the authorities and if deemed credible, that person should be tried and if proven guilty, not only put on a watch list, but denied the right to buy or possess a firearm, travel freely or leave the country. Let the ACLU, liberals, and other naive people complain. Enough is enough. Human life is far more precious than inconvenience or our myriad of "rights".
3
You realise that people with allegiance to terror groups haven't even killed 1% as many Americans as Americans themselves have in the last decade. As many Americans die every 5-6 weeks at the end of a gun - killed by other non-terrorist Americans - as did on 9/11.
Fixating on terrorism is silly.
Fixating on terrorism is silly.
2
You just confirmed why, no matter what happens, none of this ever changes. When it looks like external forces are reasons for the carnage then everyone is up in arms and say why did not the government or the law enforcement agencies do something to prevent this? For the alleged right of being able to own firearms of all kinds, when Americans kill each other, it is just collateral damage.
An extremely bizarre set of priorities.
An extremely bizarre set of priorities.
1
As part of the war on terror Obama should ban sale and possession of assault weapons and ammunition along with the sale of any weapons or any ammunition to anyone on the watch lists.
Secondly what are the police and FBI doing with their trillions of surveillance dollars? To allow these events to continue shows their incompetence. It seems it took the police 3 hours to end this. Although the FBI had investigated him, the killer was still able to purchase weapons despite a public record of racist, homophobic and pro-ISIS statements. What is the FBI and DHS doing with all the records they collect? Probably checking out their exes and the young woman across the block.
Secondly what are the police and FBI doing with their trillions of surveillance dollars? To allow these events to continue shows their incompetence. It seems it took the police 3 hours to end this. Although the FBI had investigated him, the killer was still able to purchase weapons despite a public record of racist, homophobic and pro-ISIS statements. What is the FBI and DHS doing with all the records they collect? Probably checking out their exes and the young woman across the block.
3
As an African American straight male, I stand in solidarity with the LGBTQ community. For hundreds of years, black and brown people were killed and mutilated just for being black. Now, the LGBTQ community has been dealing with a similar crisis. Killing someone because they are gay is wrong, just as wrong as killing someone because they are black. May the souls of those who were lost traverse into the astral safely. Alhumdilallah.
6
My heart bleeds for the families and friends who have lost a loved one. They [ISIS] think they can defeat us, to start a civilian war agains Muslims in the US, Europe. To ignite terror on our hearts, but our hearts are made of diamonds. Ours shine brighter than all the stars in the galaxy. We believe in a better world. In justice. In freedom.
They want to disrupt the equality and peace of our lives in - they will fail!
They want to disrupt the equality and peace of our lives in - they will fail!
2
Can any leftist explain how gun-free zones work? The Pulse nightclub was a gun-free zone, but it only disarmed the victims and not the shooter. Is this how you intended them to work?
6
Well can you assuredly right wing person explain how one minimally trained, no real experience person can take down a gun man with a gun designed to kill as many people as possible?
Can't we all agree that no random people need a gun capable of doing that kind of harm?
Can't we all agree that no random people need a gun capable of doing that kind of harm?
2
try Google, you'll see countless examples of good guys with guns stopping criminals.
Thanks for not answering my question
Thanks for not answering my question
2
OK! Corral all these wild miners out to burn off their wicks! Who's my Huckleberry?
I am glad the Gay community prefers not to invite guns into a parlor hall. But it only makes this man more of a coward that he would take his blood bath to a place of joy and peace.
I am glad the Gay community prefers not to invite guns into a parlor hall. But it only makes this man more of a coward that he would take his blood bath to a place of joy and peace.
1
Well going gunless isn't the only thing to do besides just doing nothing. America going quasi-militarized could be the other way, much like Israel, who realize they are having a war waged against them. Not saying everything Israel does is great, nor that everything that America does is great, just that we are being warred against. Having a gunfight in a nightclub wouldn't have been a great thing but people who fight back might have ended things sooner.
6
If the “Florida attacker had been investigated for ties to terrorism” by the FBI, why was he allowed to buy an assault rifle and other firearms? I guess the psychopaths of the NRA are extremely happy that this man used the weapon as it was intended to be used: to kill innocent people. How much longer do we have to wait to stop this criminal madness? How many more innocents must be massacred before the evangelical, right-wing Republicans act in the interest of the people instead of the gun lobby and the merchants of death? The only solution I see lies ahead in November to boot them out for good. Let’s do it for the love of God!
2
This is, of course, terrible beyond belief. And imagine if Trump were the President: he would drop the A-bomb 1st and spin his story or outright lie about what happened. And the media would eat it up...
3
Well, everyone from Trump, Bush, Republicans, Christian, to NRA get the blame for this act accept the real perpetrator who is a radicalized Muslim supporting ISIS. Put the blame where it belongs - hateful people with money and death wish will find ways to kill, so lets focus on eliminating them.
3
Again, vulnerable people gathered in one place they consider to be safe (note, schools, clubs, malls, movie houses etc.) are victimized in this country, which harbors some illness that seems to go beyond extremism or bias. Why are so many young men so deeply troubled? And how do we recognize which ones?
If what has been reported is true, and this shooter, was physically abusive to his wife, then she or the authorities should have charged him with domistic violence, and he would have fallen under the Brady Bill, and he would not been able to purchase a weapon. Being that he did, this is a law suit against the Federal Government for failing to use the laws on the books to protect the public. And possiblely a civil suite again the X' wife for failing to get Domistic Violence charges filed.
What do you waiting for? Why didn't you file charges in your cases yet ?
2
Interestingly, Hillary Clinton used the term "Radical Islamic terrorism' when she appeared on Joe Scarborough show on MSNBC. What's next? She is going to propose that we repeal the second Amendment and confiscate all guns? That will be really gutsy.
That this guy was known to FBI did not prevent him from obtaining his guns legally after going through background vetting. It is not that we do not have a system of checks in place; it is just that the system is not working thanks to ineptitude.
That this guy was known to FBI did not prevent him from obtaining his guns legally after going through background vetting. It is not that we do not have a system of checks in place; it is just that the system is not working thanks to ineptitude.
5
Meanwhile, the TSA confiscates deodorant and cologne from air travelers as potential hazards at airports (and promptly puts them in a garbage can where thousands of people pass every hour.) ... Someone who is questioned twice about boasts of terrorist ties to his co-workers needs to be put on a watch list. And his movements need to be watched. If Homeland Security doesn't have the manpower, buy the info from Facebook and Google, they're keeping tabs on us all already.
4
The more I read the more I want a moratorium on immigration.
8
The terrorist was born here....
1
The shooter was a US citizen, born in New York.
1
Well you have picked the right person -Trump - to take charge of America next. So wait for his term. But he needs 'legals and illegals' to work at his companies. You don't want to do it, right? What would you do then?
It seems obvious that the killer was obsessed with his own desires and certain that he was owed obeisance by others.
Men like that are "Legion."
Men like that are "Legion."
True, there were a Legion of men in that all-male TV series, "Salem." Especially "the Essex warlocks."
I've seen a number of replies advocating for the banning of "assault" rifles, military look alike weapons, etc. Understandable but personally this approach would be a mistake since it focuses on appearance of the weapon. All the gun makers need do is change how they look. Legislation should instead, focus on the lethal functions such as detachable magazines, magazine capacity, etc. Otherwise the gun makers and their lobbyists will shread the intent as well as the legislation.
3
There were mass killings of Native Americans in American history during the 19th century. One was at Wounded KInee.
As horrific as this assault is, I think most of us would agree on one thing. That by showing the faces of murderers, ad nausea, ensures that they will get their fifteen minutes of “fame.” More like 24/7 until the next gruesome act occurs. I believe the visual mass media should, at the minimum, blur the faces of any miscreant that is killed after committing a heinous crime from the nose down so that we can see the real face of evil, as it should be depicted…distorted and unrecognizable.
3
He legally bought the assault rifle and was three times interviewed by the FBI.
So much for our lawmakers elected by you the citizens of this country.
When the voters change, America can change.
So much for our lawmakers elected by you the citizens of this country.
When the voters change, America can change.
1
Why this bast ard was able to stay alive and kill people for 3 long hours??
2
Complaining about lack of action by Congress is comfortable and the easy way out for "we the people".
It totally ignores our complicity.
We the people allow it to happen.
We the people allow it to continue.
We own this.
not the President
Not Congress.
Not the NRA
If over 80% of citizens are in favor of "sensible" gun laws, why does nothing happen?
Because "Second Amendment " fanatics are single issue voters. Because they take the time to contact their representatives and Senators and flood them with opposition to "sensible" gun laws.
Slightly more than half of us even bother to vote in Presidential elections and fewer in off years. And yet we act surprised and outraged.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing......"
"Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting a different result"
It totally ignores our complicity.
We the people allow it to happen.
We the people allow it to continue.
We own this.
not the President
Not Congress.
Not the NRA
If over 80% of citizens are in favor of "sensible" gun laws, why does nothing happen?
Because "Second Amendment " fanatics are single issue voters. Because they take the time to contact their representatives and Senators and flood them with opposition to "sensible" gun laws.
Slightly more than half of us even bother to vote in Presidential elections and fewer in off years. And yet we act surprised and outraged.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing......"
"Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting a different result"
3
Not being able to carry a gun into an establishment that sells alcohol is a sensible gun law. It is also the law in Florida. How did that work out?
Sensible gun laws are one thing. Very few have a problem with sensible gun laws. But what is your definition of sensible? And are the sensible gun laws already on the books enforced?
Sensible gun laws are one thing. Very few have a problem with sensible gun laws. But what is your definition of sensible? And are the sensible gun laws already on the books enforced?
2
In the last congressional election, approximately 20 percent of the registered voters actually voted. Any wonder why important issues like this are never dealt with?
1
Imagine… the horror of it all; 49 dead and as many or more innocent souls wounded at the hands of an Islamist Extremist a.k.a. terrorist. You have to wonder, when our current political correct charlatans might acknowledge their responsibilities for this horrific act of cowardice by a Muslim terrorist.
Imagine… our political correct charlatans are doing what you might expect from politically correct servants who have disavowed any knowledge of radical Islam and the terrorism it produces. Talk about guilty parties or naivety; Obama and Clinton are still living in their own La-La Land of divisive rhetoric directed at Americans.
Imagine… ambiguity, or deceit from Obama or Clinton. You have to wonder how many Americans have to die before Obama and Clinton are held accountable for their duplicity and crimes. The Foot Hood and Benghazi massacre was conveniently twisted into workplace violence and Benghazi a video fiasco, allowing Obama and Clinton to dance with their notions of a terrorist attack on their watch.
Imagine… the horrifying moments suffered by all those folks who find themselves afoul of Muslin terrorist carrying out their whims of Sharia Law. You have to wonder how far this political correct nonsense might go before morally inept politicians are held accountable for their political correct follies. Absent any talk of Islamic terror by Obama and Clinton, you’re left wondering how many Americans might be slaughtered via their inept leadership.
Imagine… our political correct charlatans are doing what you might expect from politically correct servants who have disavowed any knowledge of radical Islam and the terrorism it produces. Talk about guilty parties or naivety; Obama and Clinton are still living in their own La-La Land of divisive rhetoric directed at Americans.
Imagine… ambiguity, or deceit from Obama or Clinton. You have to wonder how many Americans have to die before Obama and Clinton are held accountable for their duplicity and crimes. The Foot Hood and Benghazi massacre was conveniently twisted into workplace violence and Benghazi a video fiasco, allowing Obama and Clinton to dance with their notions of a terrorist attack on their watch.
Imagine… the horrifying moments suffered by all those folks who find themselves afoul of Muslin terrorist carrying out their whims of Sharia Law. You have to wonder how far this political correct nonsense might go before morally inept politicians are held accountable for their political correct follies. Absent any talk of Islamic terror by Obama and Clinton, you’re left wondering how many Americans might be slaughtered via their inept leadership.
2
Here we go again. It is the guns. It is one lone gunman. For some reason we can not mention the Quran's hatred of LBGT. We can never mention that Muslims in greater number the world over are a violent bunch. Not all of them. Granted. When the LBGT community realizes what the truth is and how Muslims are hell bound on their destruction maybe that liberal segment of the populace will vote Donald Trump. He shines and benefits from every tragedy from now until election day. Keep saying he was an American by birth doesn't mean a thing. He was a killer. A killer of the Muslim faith.
2
The difference between the European shootings and the USA shootings is that the European shootings occurred due to lax intelligence organizations, the USA shootings occurred due to lax weapons control.
Strict weapons control laws deter lone wolf shooters.
Effective intelligence deter shootings by organized gangs.
Need both of them.
Strict weapons control laws deter lone wolf shooters.
Effective intelligence deter shootings by organized gangs.
Need both of them.
6
As with most domestic terror attacks, what really failed was our imagination. No one thought a person living in our communities, specially one born in the US, regardless of background, would consider carrying out such a deranged act. While the perpetrator of this crime might have been mentally unstable, he was nonetheless taken in by isis/daesh rhetoric, and "pledged his allegiance to isis" prior to pulling the trigger. Even if operating in a vacuum, this is still islamic-terrorism by any other name.
3
Mateen made two trips (2011 and 2012) to Saudi Arabia and was interviewed by the FBI more than once.
Mateen belonged to a belief system that includes gays must be killed. Gays are routinely thrown off the tops of buildings in the Middle East just for being gay or suspected of being gay.
Yet the covenient narrative here is gun control? What next? bringing in James Taylor like after the Paris attacks?
How many minutes would an openly gay person remain standing walking through a Muslim neighborhood?
It's time we get a leader in this country who gives a damn about protecting us. Not one who'd rather wallow in political correctness at the expense of dead Americans here and abroad.
Mateen belonged to a belief system that includes gays must be killed. Gays are routinely thrown off the tops of buildings in the Middle East just for being gay or suspected of being gay.
Yet the covenient narrative here is gun control? What next? bringing in James Taylor like after the Paris attacks?
How many minutes would an openly gay person remain standing walking through a Muslim neighborhood?
It's time we get a leader in this country who gives a damn about protecting us. Not one who'd rather wallow in political correctness at the expense of dead Americans here and abroad.
5
Ivy, the problems we face are complex. And yes, sensible gun control -- including a ban on the average citizen being able to buy a military assault weapon -- is one of the things that should be looked at.
Yes, criminals intent on killing people can always find guns, but the past few mass shootings have involved killers who got their weapons and ammo legally.
Make the weapons illegal and it will at least be harder for the crazy people to find them.
Try finding an opiate pill nowadays after the government cracked down on them! It's harder than getting an AR-15 rifle. There's something crazy there.
Yes, criminals intent on killing people can always find guns, but the past few mass shootings have involved killers who got their weapons and ammo legally.
Make the weapons illegal and it will at least be harder for the crazy people to find them.
Try finding an opiate pill nowadays after the government cracked down on them! It's harder than getting an AR-15 rifle. There's something crazy there.
Even while endorsing a narcissistic fool who wants to ban all Muslim integration and put American Muslims under government surveillance, Republicans encourage homophobia by their anti-gay marriage stances, and oppose even those limited gun laws that would keep automatic weapons out of the marketplace. Only military personnel or police require such weapons; you don't need one to hunt a deer or protect your home.
The killer in this instance may have been a Muslim but, by his family's own account, he was not religious. He may have posted comments on Facebook that got him on the "watch" lists, but he was not pursued, not because the police were lax, but because he was found to have no affiliations with extremists. He was, however, making threats to kill people -- his co-worker has said -- and was a spousal abuser. His wife said he'd start pummeling her while she was asleep. In other words, this man was mentally disturbed, not a member of ISIS
Anyone can call 911 and say "I'm with ISIS" -- or "I'm with the Taliban, " or "I'm with Jesus," or "I'm a space alien." What happened yesterday in Orlando was terrorism, but not Muslim terrorism: it was the terrorism of an American citizen, native born, who was a disturbed, violent, misogynistic homophobe -- and had access to an automatic weapon.
Trump and his followers, and the Republicans who are opportunistically embracing his candidacy, ignore the realities and enable the perpetrators. It's not about Muslims; it's about us.
The killer in this instance may have been a Muslim but, by his family's own account, he was not religious. He may have posted comments on Facebook that got him on the "watch" lists, but he was not pursued, not because the police were lax, but because he was found to have no affiliations with extremists. He was, however, making threats to kill people -- his co-worker has said -- and was a spousal abuser. His wife said he'd start pummeling her while she was asleep. In other words, this man was mentally disturbed, not a member of ISIS
Anyone can call 911 and say "I'm with ISIS" -- or "I'm with the Taliban, " or "I'm with Jesus," or "I'm a space alien." What happened yesterday in Orlando was terrorism, but not Muslim terrorism: it was the terrorism of an American citizen, native born, who was a disturbed, violent, misogynistic homophobe -- and had access to an automatic weapon.
Trump and his followers, and the Republicans who are opportunistically embracing his candidacy, ignore the realities and enable the perpetrators. It's not about Muslims; it's about us.
4
What's funny is that all the people who want to disassociate Mateen from ISIS despite his admission were overwhelmingly anxious to link Dylann Roof with every right-wing group under the sun despite no evidence at all.
4
His family claimed he was not religious, that's true. But what is the upside for his family if they said, "yes, we knew he was a muslim extremist. we just decided not to do anything about it."?
Consider the source.
Consider the source.
4
1. This guy appears to've been yet another lunatic, who took ISIS as an excuse to attack the gay people he loathed.
2. If you think that Islam is the type of religion that advocates this, and Christianity never would, I suggest finding out who "Pastor," Kevin Swanson is. You rememember Kevin--he's the guy got up on his hind legs during the Iowa primary and advocated the following "liberal," position: we should wait till everybody in the country belongs to the One True Faith, give gay folks a chance to repent. Then, hang them.
3. Think that's got noting to do with you? Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee, and Bobby Jindal were in attendance. They wanted his endorsement, which Cruz got.
4. Islamic clerics and congregations have denounced the violence again and again.
5. This shooter a) had repated brushes with the law, b) exhibited flagrant hate, c) bought his assault rifles, handguns, and a ton of ammo recently. Legally. In Florida.
2. If you think that Islam is the type of religion that advocates this, and Christianity never would, I suggest finding out who "Pastor," Kevin Swanson is. You rememember Kevin--he's the guy got up on his hind legs during the Iowa primary and advocated the following "liberal," position: we should wait till everybody in the country belongs to the One True Faith, give gay folks a chance to repent. Then, hang them.
3. Think that's got noting to do with you? Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee, and Bobby Jindal were in attendance. They wanted his endorsement, which Cruz got.
4. Islamic clerics and congregations have denounced the violence again and again.
5. This shooter a) had repated brushes with the law, b) exhibited flagrant hate, c) bought his assault rifles, handguns, and a ton of ammo recently. Legally. In Florida.
6
Honestly, do you really think that Islamic clerics and congregations in the US are NOT going to denounce this violence? Are you that naive?
3
A person that was under two FBI investigations for terrorism, that for reasons apparently of political correctness was not blocked from buying automatic weapons, nor was blocked from getting a job as a security guard? What a total failure of common sense by both the FBI/DoJ and ATF. Should we not err on the side of blocking people suspected of Islamic radicalism or terrorism from passing the Federal background check? I can only assume that if this killer had been suspected of being a Jewish or Christian radical he would have been blocked - it is only because the DoJ and the Obama administration fears to even utter the words 'Islamic Radical Terrorist' that this guy was left free to buy weapons and pass the checks.
3
Just for the record, "political correctness" has nothing to do with it--but the NRA does. The Republicans in Congress blocked any restrictions on gun purchases by those identified as potential terrorists. The federal agencies have the power to put them on a "no fly" list, but not on a "no buy" one. The Republicans refuse to let the agencies coordinate and share data on gun purchases and ownership. If you'd do a bit more reading, you'd know that President Obama has commented on this repeatedly and has tried to move Congress on the issue, to no avail. So perhaps you should blame those trying to ensure everyone can have any gun at any time in any place.
3
New York Times please stop writing that the killer killed 49 people because he saw two men kissing. He killed 49 people because he was a homophobic, sexist, racist killer. Hundreds of thousands of people have seen two men kissing and have not gone out and killed.... This is sloppy reporting at its worst!
This is more blame the victim!
This is more blame the victim!
9
But it's true. Sometimes the facts are hard to swallow. The Times is accurate.
2
Three FBI investigations. Still able to buy a military assault rifle. How is that possible? Perhaps ask the Senator from Florida for his thoughts on no-fly and terror watch lists ...
“Sometimes, you're only on that list because the FBI wants to talk to you about someone you know, not because you're a suspect. And, again, now your Second Amendment right is being impeded with. [These lists] shouldn't be used as a tool to impede people from having access to be able to fully utilize their Second Amendment rights.”
-- Sen. Marco Rubio, Dec 2015
“Sometimes, you're only on that list because the FBI wants to talk to you about someone you know, not because you're a suspect. And, again, now your Second Amendment right is being impeded with. [These lists] shouldn't be used as a tool to impede people from having access to be able to fully utilize their Second Amendment rights.”
-- Sen. Marco Rubio, Dec 2015
6
Don't blame the FBI for not being able to stop this terrorist madman. They have had their hands full with Hillary Clinton's email.
21
Of course he has ties to terrorism and ISIS. This is what I've been worried about for years, although I was predicting NYC instead of Orlando.
9/11's PRIMARY lesson was to prevent terrorists from having a sanctuary. With a sanctuary, terrorists can plan attacks, hone their skills, and broadcast slick propaganda videos (which led this guy to become radicalized). Yet Obama did not heed 9/11's lesson, yanked every single last troop from Iraq to fulfill a political campaign promise, thus allowing ISIS to metasize during his 2nd term (5 years after Bush had left). Btw, blaming Bush's withdrawal agreement is a specious argument. Where there's a will, there's a way (especially as USA president), but Obama never had the will to stay in Iraq.
Admitting his mistake, Obama has reversed course and sent hundreds of troops back into Iraq to fight (yet refusing to call them combat troops).
I voted for Obama twice, but have always opposed his naive policies wrt Iraq. Expect more attacks in the months and years to come. Paris, Belgium, San Bernadino, Orlando are just the tip of the iceberg. Unfortunately, 50 is not enough to change our stupid policies. I predict no change unless we get 100+ in an attack, or Trump gets elected.
9/11's PRIMARY lesson was to prevent terrorists from having a sanctuary. With a sanctuary, terrorists can plan attacks, hone their skills, and broadcast slick propaganda videos (which led this guy to become radicalized). Yet Obama did not heed 9/11's lesson, yanked every single last troop from Iraq to fulfill a political campaign promise, thus allowing ISIS to metasize during his 2nd term (5 years after Bush had left). Btw, blaming Bush's withdrawal agreement is a specious argument. Where there's a will, there's a way (especially as USA president), but Obama never had the will to stay in Iraq.
Admitting his mistake, Obama has reversed course and sent hundreds of troops back into Iraq to fight (yet refusing to call them combat troops).
I voted for Obama twice, but have always opposed his naive policies wrt Iraq. Expect more attacks in the months and years to come. Paris, Belgium, San Bernadino, Orlando are just the tip of the iceberg. Unfortunately, 50 is not enough to change our stupid policies. I predict no change unless we get 100+ in an attack, or Trump gets elected.
6
A strict constructionist interpretation of the 2nd Amendment would allow everyone to have muskets. That's all the founders could have been discussing back when the amendment was passed because that's pretty much all there was. No one in civil society needs an assault rifle. Hunting rifles and shotguns and revolvers, especially for rural folks--that would be fine. But assault rifles? No. Assault rifles are weapons of war. If we allow assault rifles, where do we draw the line? At M-2 .50 cal machine guns? At tanks and howitzers? The tactical nuke here and there? Maybe a background check for that.
But this wasn't a terrorist act. No matter what the crazed gunman said, it had nothing to do with ISIS or al Qaeda or any other political movement. It was the act of a deranged mind. And that's the real problem. Getting assault weapons off the streets ain't gonna make people any less crazy. There's not a lot can be done about crazy. And wiping ISIS from the face of the earth wouldn't change a thing.
Crazy people who want to kill people will find a way to kill people. Mourn the dead, but in the way you'd mourn any other victim of nature's vicissitudes. Because that's what this is, carnage from a storm in one person's mind.
But this wasn't a terrorist act. No matter what the crazed gunman said, it had nothing to do with ISIS or al Qaeda or any other political movement. It was the act of a deranged mind. And that's the real problem. Getting assault weapons off the streets ain't gonna make people any less crazy. There's not a lot can be done about crazy. And wiping ISIS from the face of the earth wouldn't change a thing.
Crazy people who want to kill people will find a way to kill people. Mourn the dead, but in the way you'd mourn any other victim of nature's vicissitudes. Because that's what this is, carnage from a storm in one person's mind.
4
The 2nd Ammendment has "a well regulated militia" part. Why are gun owners not in well regulated militias, or the Nationial Guard? With weekly/monthly meetings, drills etc.? Let's have the entire 2nd Ammendment, not just pieces of it.
1
Mr. Keith, you and so many NY Times commenters are talking through your hat when you discuss guns and weapons in general. Weapons of warfare, such as machine guns, grenades, land mines, artillery, mortars, and tanks have been either banned outright or tightly controlled for almost a hundred years in this country. Let me recommend an excellent book by the Times military reporter, C.J. Chivers titled "The Gun" which is nominally a history of the AK-47, but has a wealth of information about M-16s and other weapons.
It is a quick read and will help people have intelligent and factual conversations about the issues surrounding weapons in general.
I cannot believe that you will not accept that this was an act of terrorism. Mr. Obama finally choked out the word "terrorism" although he and Hillary just cannot utter "terrorism" and "Islamic" in the same sentence. He associated with a suicide bomber, spouted radical language, and cited ISIS as his inspiration in a phone call to police before the carnage began. Even Barney Frank acknowledges the link to Islam, so why are you in denial?
It is a quick read and will help people have intelligent and factual conversations about the issues surrounding weapons in general.
I cannot believe that you will not accept that this was an act of terrorism. Mr. Obama finally choked out the word "terrorism" although he and Hillary just cannot utter "terrorism" and "Islamic" in the same sentence. He associated with a suicide bomber, spouted radical language, and cited ISIS as his inspiration in a phone call to police before the carnage began. Even Barney Frank acknowledges the link to Islam, so why are you in denial?
2
How on earth do you know, and what gives you the gall to say anything like this?
What is your motivation, aside from your own out of control ego?
This maniac had a history of attraction to ISIS and the absurd tenants of extreme Islam. He was clearly homophobic, and using his "religion" to justify his hatred. Like a lot of people on this planet.
Your use of this massacre as some kind of scenery for a presentation of your absolutely lame and self-serving ideas is revolting.
What is your motivation, aside from your own out of control ego?
This maniac had a history of attraction to ISIS and the absurd tenants of extreme Islam. He was clearly homophobic, and using his "religion" to justify his hatred. Like a lot of people on this planet.
Your use of this massacre as some kind of scenery for a presentation of your absolutely lame and self-serving ideas is revolting.
1
The left is terrified of the fact that the worst shooting in history was done by a registered Democrat in a gun-free zone
7
No one is terrified of that. Lol.
I'm "on the left" and let me assure you that what continues to terrify me is the easy, legal access that just about anyone, on the left or right, has to only-made-for-killing semiautomatic and assault-type guns.
1
It is a most inconvenient truth, but nearly all of the mass shooters in recent years have been Democrats. Perhaps, we should round up all the Democrats and make our country safe again (lol).
2
I am sorry for the tragedy, but maybe it is time that some of these nightclubs look at some of the problems that caused the higher death toll than there should have been. The floor plan shows minimal ways to escape, the patio was surrounded by a tall fence. People report that they thought the gunfire sounded like part of the music or they thought it was firecrackers. It is loud and crowded. I know people go to have a good time, but is it necessary for the music to be so loud that you can't hear, you can't comprehend what is going on around you. Do people have to be so jammed inside that they can't comprehend all ways to leave if there is an emergency?
1
Well it seems this one, like any other nightclub was designed primarily for people to dance and have a good time, not, for the purpose of preventing someone from coming in with a high powered weapon that can kill from a significant distance while at the same time wishing to perform a mass execution. Regardless of any possible escape improvements, several would have been shot before they even knew what was happening to them.
The carnage had more to do with an assassin who had access to a high-powered weapon, not more escape routes out of the club.
The carnage had more to do with an assassin who had access to a high-powered weapon, not more escape routes out of the club.
There's one factor, I believe, that would have lessened this carnage. Namely making it illegal for anyone but the military to possess an assault rifle. Of course there's always the black market that will fill just about any vacuum if someone is sufficiently motivated but at least there would be a roadblock in place. However, if that were purposed, the NRA would exploit fear by warning that the next step would mean the government will be coming for every other gun. It's inconceivable the level of power that group and it's cult of like-minded fear-based conspiracy-based followers have enabling those with serious untreated psychological problems to carry out heinous crimes like this. Yet, there's more of us than them, so we need to make our voices known. As President Obama stated" "Doing nothing is a choice too."
13
You should vote for Hillary & Friends as she has repeatedly said that she favors an "Australian style" gun confiscation program. Obama wanted the same thing, but was smart enough to realize that rounding up the 300 million firearms now in civilian hands just was not going to happen.
Instead, Obama went after the supplies of ammunition; first with his order that all once-fired military brass be shredded, and when he was stymied by the two Democratic senators from Montana, he simply had Federal agencies purchase billions of rounds to choke off the supplies. He did precipitate some temporary shortages, but ultimately failed to disarm the American people.
Instead, Obama went after the supplies of ammunition; first with his order that all once-fired military brass be shredded, and when he was stymied by the two Democratic senators from Montana, he simply had Federal agencies purchase billions of rounds to choke off the supplies. He did precipitate some temporary shortages, but ultimately failed to disarm the American people.
Despite Trump's latest self-congratulations, it is quite possible that this had little, if anything, to do with political ideology or ethnic identity.
Given the revulsion the shooter expressed at seeing two men kissing in public (as related by his father) and the way he treated his former wife, Mateen's 911 call expressing allegiance to to the Islamic State may be simply be a red herring to camouflage his own repressed same-sex feelings.
The overwhelming majority of those who rage against the "ho-mo-sexual agenda" were perfectly described by Shakespeare centuries ago: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" (Hamlet: Act III, Scene II).
Given the revulsion the shooter expressed at seeing two men kissing in public (as related by his father) and the way he treated his former wife, Mateen's 911 call expressing allegiance to to the Islamic State may be simply be a red herring to camouflage his own repressed same-sex feelings.
The overwhelming majority of those who rage against the "ho-mo-sexual agenda" were perfectly described by Shakespeare centuries ago: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" (Hamlet: Act III, Scene II).
4
Dig that. I think you are absolutely on to something. I've been thinking and saying it for years. Nobody wants to talk about it.
When an entire culture, consisting of millions of individuals, basically denies personhood to half of its own number because of their gender, and refuses to change it, and refuses to acknowledge that this gender is, you know, their mothers and sisters, something is very, very wrong. Plus the appalling violence, the absurd posing. Yeah. They're latent.
When an entire culture, consisting of millions of individuals, basically denies personhood to half of its own number because of their gender, and refuses to change it, and refuses to acknowledge that this gender is, you know, their mothers and sisters, something is very, very wrong. Plus the appalling violence, the absurd posing. Yeah. They're latent.
2
Thank you.
Early in the twentieth century, Carl Jung expanded upon Shakespeare, putting forth his theory of the "shadow" - https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evil-deeds/201204/essential-secrets... .
Not unrelated is a song written for the 1949 Rogers and Hammerstein musical "South Pacific," "You've Got to Be Carefully Taught."
Early in the twentieth century, Carl Jung expanded upon Shakespeare, putting forth his theory of the "shadow" - https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evil-deeds/201204/essential-secrets... .
Not unrelated is a song written for the 1949 Rogers and Hammerstein musical "South Pacific," "You've Got to Be Carefully Taught."
1
It would appear that the Federal Bureau of Incompetence was foiled again.
3
Where is Debbie Almontaseer, CAIR and the rest of the Islamic leadership in this country? Why aren't they at the forefront in condemning this action?
Is that too much to ask for?
Is that too much to ask for?
6
There has been total silence from Hillary's top aide, Huma Abadein, and Obama's close advisor Valerie Jarrett, both Muslims of Iranian descent. Why have they not spoken out?
2
Barney Frank is right on, as usual. Let us not shy away from uncomfortable truths. Much needs to be acknowledged, and changed.
3
Here's an idea. How about Congress establish a national set of conferences to do the following:
1. How we can curtail the sale of weapons and still uphold the Second Amendment?
2. Find a way to protect our population, allow police to investigate suspicious people and activities and not trample on the average citizen's civil rights.
In all this time since 911 have we ever had a massive, coordinated effort to bring in law enforcement along with constitutional experts, civil libertarians, psychologists and yes even gun advocates to find away to pass legislation to address our new reality? We need to set a goal and do the real work to protect our citizens from terror, crime and yet not become a totalitarian government. We cannot continue to be a country where we have mass shootings all time.
1. How we can curtail the sale of weapons and still uphold the Second Amendment?
2. Find a way to protect our population, allow police to investigate suspicious people and activities and not trample on the average citizen's civil rights.
In all this time since 911 have we ever had a massive, coordinated effort to bring in law enforcement along with constitutional experts, civil libertarians, psychologists and yes even gun advocates to find away to pass legislation to address our new reality? We need to set a goal and do the real work to protect our citizens from terror, crime and yet not become a totalitarian government. We cannot continue to be a country where we have mass shootings all time.
2
The times and the less brainy commenters seeing this as a moment for gun control probably viewed 9/11 as generally a teachable moment for stricter building codes.
11
Despite the shallowness of your comment I feel the need to point out how this atrocity plays against the NRA argument about guards & guns making us safer from angry fanatics, mentally ill people with guns. The club had an armed off duty police officer like the ones advocated for schools & other public spaces & was unable to prevent a lone attacker. Nor did our increased awareness on the federal level prevent a known bigot from having a job with access to weapons or employment with a security firm. So yes gun access is part of this tragedy as well as ethnic, racial & sexual bigotry, all of which he espoused.
2
I wish Obama wouldn't be so dry and understated in his comments. How about reassuring the nation? How about some passion and some action on his "sensible gun control" measures? He sells them as though they were sensible shoes.
2
Let's call this what it really is: The attack of a lone homophobic abusive American malcontent who had a poor sense of identity, easy access to an automatic weapon, and took out his frustrations on a dense crowd of inncents he hated.
ISIS has nothing to do with this. A changed immigration policy cannot change this kind of attack. Improved gun control can.
ISIS has nothing to do with this. A changed immigration policy cannot change this kind of attack. Improved gun control can.
5
yeah but methinks his crazy Taliban dad definitely played a role in creating this monster.
1
Try peddling that to the Europeans or the dead at Fort Hood or San Bernardino.
2
How many more suspects have to slip through the obviously incompetent FBI's fingers!!
2
In my opinion, this isn't only a hate crime against gays.
Did it ever occur to these geniuses in the White House (Bush-Obama) that there would be a growing backlash after 16 years of being annihilated by US bombs? I did a google check and was shocked to find after spending time researching different reliable sources that nearly a MILLION bombs have been dropped over the Middle East region since 2003-2016. That includes, homes, hospitals, schools, sewer systems, electricity, bridges, roads--you name it and they've bombed it. Maybe there are a few palm trees left standing, but barely. I'm sure those palms will be targeted soon enough as well.
The US gov hasn't just hit the wasp nest, they hit it SO hard (Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen) that the nest shattered into a thousand pieces, and now there is no way to put the wasps back into the nest...
Mission Accomplished!! --G.W. Bush
Did it ever occur to these geniuses in the White House (Bush-Obama) that there would be a growing backlash after 16 years of being annihilated by US bombs? I did a google check and was shocked to find after spending time researching different reliable sources that nearly a MILLION bombs have been dropped over the Middle East region since 2003-2016. That includes, homes, hospitals, schools, sewer systems, electricity, bridges, roads--you name it and they've bombed it. Maybe there are a few palm trees left standing, but barely. I'm sure those palms will be targeted soon enough as well.
The US gov hasn't just hit the wasp nest, they hit it SO hard (Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen) that the nest shattered into a thousand pieces, and now there is no way to put the wasps back into the nest...
Mission Accomplished!! --G.W. Bush
19
This event makes me feel sick on so many levels. It makes me feel sick for the lost lives that were taken for no reason at all. It makes me feel sick to think that such evil people walk the same streets that I do every day. Perhaps most of all it makes me feel sick that a man investigated THREE TIMES by the FBI can STILL buy an assault rifle, which is a WEAPON OF WAR and finally it makes me feel sick that far too many Americans lack the strength of character to realize that our gun laws are an abomination and need to be change so that COMMON SENSE restrictions on such weapons are put in place so that ONE MAN can never again take FIFTY LIVES again.
11
I am disgusted that if someone yells allahu Akbar, or makes a claim they're related to ISIS, everyone freaks out, and the NYT quakes behind a foot tall headline. This seems to have been a hate crime committed by a violet, abusive man who had a problem with gay people. Why give terrorists a cheap victory that didn't have anything to do with?
16
Why did the police take THREE HOURS to respond to the crisis? This delay demands investigation.
4
Obama's War on Police slowed them- if they move too fast Obama will skewer them over Islamoiphobia
1
I wish commentary focused more on the homophobia underpinning this slaughter. This isn't only an issue of gun violence and/or Islamic extremism, it's also about the very real danger present in LGBT lives. It is about the homophobia that is so pervasive -- in our religions, our communities, our society at large -- such that as a queer individual myself, I regard it as a de facto prejudice I must contend with, and when taken to the extreme, something I must fear.
It doesn't surprise me that the Orlando gunman was virulently homophobic, because I can easily see how this attitude was probably informed by a number of factors (religion, culture, upbringing). Perhaps he was not brought up to become a murderer, and in any case he is personally responsible for the violence he committed, but he was also probably not brought up to respect LGBT individuals overmuch. Gross assumption? I say, let's not lie to ourselves about this: even in the most 'accepting' households, non-heteronormative sexuality is still regarded as a deviation from the standard. This regard becomes further jaundiced when the mores are patriarchal. (I should know; I grew up in one such South Asian household and had to renounce my upbringing or live in conflict with my true self.)
It doesn't surprise me that the Orlando gunman was virulently homophobic, because I can easily see how this attitude was probably informed by a number of factors (religion, culture, upbringing). Perhaps he was not brought up to become a murderer, and in any case he is personally responsible for the violence he committed, but he was also probably not brought up to respect LGBT individuals overmuch. Gross assumption? I say, let's not lie to ourselves about this: even in the most 'accepting' households, non-heteronormative sexuality is still regarded as a deviation from the standard. This regard becomes further jaundiced when the mores are patriarchal. (I should know; I grew up in one such South Asian household and had to renounce my upbringing or live in conflict with my true self.)
7
“They were kissing each other and touching each other and [Omar Mateen] said, ‘Look at that. In front of my son, they are doing that.’ ”
My husband and I, two men, must remember to do this again, in public. We find that after 40 years together we still need that common, reaffirming and human act, now to stand against assault weapons.
My husband and I, two men, must remember to do this again, in public. We find that after 40 years together we still need that common, reaffirming and human act, now to stand against assault weapons.
25
Please do! There should be a national gay kissing day held in front of every mosque and Chick-fil-A.
2
Anybody that knows anything about CQC(Close Quarters Combat) will tell you the best weapon choice for this would NOT an AR style rifle but a short barrel shotgun loaded with the right ammo. Why do you think so many LEO have these for "inside the structure" assault. Pure and simple blame game. The whole thing stinks! Lets protect the rights of the Radical Terrorist and take away from the folks who can stop a guy like this. They are trying brainwash us all. I stopped being a "Sheepeople" a long time ago. Read between the lines and stop drinking the "koolaide."
6
Do you support gay rights to equality?
If your loved one was one of the 49 they carried out of the club in a body bag, I doubt you would have been concerned about what weapon the perpetrator had used.
Can we ask all the media outlets to please stop focusing so much on repeating endlessly about this being the worst American terrorist attack since 9/11? We get it, American culture and media are turned on by focusing on the numbers, and what's the biggest or leading in the totals records. Because for each of these poor victims' loved ones, even their 1 loved one's death from this tragedy would make this be one of the "worst," if not the very worst, thing that has ever occurred to them and their lives.
4
The NRA has a strong lobby. Inform people to join 'EVERYTOWN', the new anti-gun lobby!
6
As a gay man, I am deeply saddened by this act of terrorism/hate. My heart goes out to the families and friends of those killed and to those injured and their families and friends. But I am outraged at the availability of assault rifles and other weapons of mass destruction as used in this crime.
7
In reply to Willyftl: As a straight grandfather -- as a human being -- I join you in sadness and outrage. We as a nation will never move forward as long as do-nothing, obstructive Republicans have the upper hand. And until all members of Senate and House have the fortitude to take on the NRA.
1
A president who for seven years can't utter the words Islamic terrorists and is pushing to bring in thousands of Syrians who can't be properly screened.
Each year thousands are caught lying on the NICS form and are rejected from purchasing a firearm. Yet each year the government only prosecutes less than a dozen.
Nothing will change.
Each year thousands are caught lying on the NICS form and are rejected from purchasing a firearm. Yet each year the government only prosecutes less than a dozen.
Nothing will change.
9
The left can never wait to exploit a terror event into a politicized anti-gun agenda and totally ignore terrorism itself.
Since the left is so anti-gun, why is there deafening silence when tens of thousands of violent gun-toting thugs have rap sheets a mile long because they serve next to no time in jail when they're arrested? The police are not the ones letting them out of jail.
The left believes criminals are just poor little misunderstood sweethearts and that our cities must provide sanctuary for illegals. Somehow, law enforcement became the bad guys.
Mateen traveled to Saudi Arabia in 2011 and 2012. He was interviewed by the FBI. He pledged allegiance to ISIS. His own co-workers reported him. But we could not detain him because it wasn't politically correct. Instead we get anti-gun rants.
This political correctness just cost over 50 murders. It's turned into an anti-gun rant and Monday-morning-quarterbacking of the police. The terrorism aspect of it? Oh never mind that, it isn't politically correct.
The surviving Boston Marathon bomber got his picture on the cover of Rolling Stone and became some kind of idol by left wing sympathizers. Had Mateen not been shot he'd likely have ended up as an idolized figure by the same people.
Since the left is so anti-gun, why is there deafening silence when tens of thousands of violent gun-toting thugs have rap sheets a mile long because they serve next to no time in jail when they're arrested? The police are not the ones letting them out of jail.
The left believes criminals are just poor little misunderstood sweethearts and that our cities must provide sanctuary for illegals. Somehow, law enforcement became the bad guys.
Mateen traveled to Saudi Arabia in 2011 and 2012. He was interviewed by the FBI. He pledged allegiance to ISIS. His own co-workers reported him. But we could not detain him because it wasn't politically correct. Instead we get anti-gun rants.
This political correctness just cost over 50 murders. It's turned into an anti-gun rant and Monday-morning-quarterbacking of the police. The terrorism aspect of it? Oh never mind that, it isn't politically correct.
The surviving Boston Marathon bomber got his picture on the cover of Rolling Stone and became some kind of idol by left wing sympathizers. Had Mateen not been shot he'd likely have ended up as an idolized figure by the same people.
11
The Pulse nightclub was a gun-free zone
2
Inappropriate though it is, it is also inescapable that this tragedy, like virtually everything else this election year, will be turned into a political football. I predict this will play out in two ways politically:
1. Many conservatives are no doubt saying to themselves, and some will come out and say so publicly, that President Obama will finally take the ISIS threat seriously now that gays have been targeted.
2. Every terrorist attack through November 8 will help Trump more than Clinton because his verbal bellicosity will be mistaken by many for strong leadership. (Look at how his polling in the Republican primary took off late last year in the wake of Paris and San Bernadino.) In fact, this may be ISIS' plan - to do what it can to get into office next January a President who by his words and actions will be more likely to bring in more ISIS supporters.
1. Many conservatives are no doubt saying to themselves, and some will come out and say so publicly, that President Obama will finally take the ISIS threat seriously now that gays have been targeted.
2. Every terrorist attack through November 8 will help Trump more than Clinton because his verbal bellicosity will be mistaken by many for strong leadership. (Look at how his polling in the Republican primary took off late last year in the wake of Paris and San Bernadino.) In fact, this may be ISIS' plan - to do what it can to get into office next January a President who by his words and actions will be more likely to bring in more ISIS supporters.
Horrified at the way in which the killer literally shot innocent people
President Obama and saner elements have repeatedly pointed out that strict measures must be enforced for possessing Guns and firearms in the country .Most importantly educating people that Gun violence is not a solution for any problem high time US imposes strict Gun control measures with safety and Health checks for individuals possessing guns
Piers Morgan seems to be right in lobbying for permanent solution to the gun
related killings
President Obama and saner elements have repeatedly pointed out that strict measures must be enforced for possessing Guns and firearms in the country .Most importantly educating people that Gun violence is not a solution for any problem high time US imposes strict Gun control measures with safety and Health checks for individuals possessing guns
Piers Morgan seems to be right in lobbying for permanent solution to the gun
related killings
2
The president wants more gun control and more Muslims. Trump will have a lot to talk about today.
10
Of course, now we're going to have endless studies of his marital issues, his financial issues, listen to seventh-grade teachers go on about "What a nice boy he was..." We're going to talk endlessly about precisely what kind of hateful nut job he was, but what we're maybe going to talk about but not do anything about is how he was able to buy a gun that allowed him to kill fifty people and wound as many ore in the space of a few minutes. That one, we can't touch because, well...NRA.
10
The FBI needs to start connecting the dots: so many of these mass shooters also have a record of domestic violence. The FBI investigated him but did not talk to his ex-wife, who would have told them exactly how violent this man was.
And it should be only common sense that those with a record of domestic violence should not be allowed to buy guns. If Congress does not start doing their job and crafting carefully targeted gun control measures, such as if you are on the no-fly list, you should be on a no-buy list, then the blanket calls for gun bans will continue to rise.
And it should be only common sense that those with a record of domestic violence should not be allowed to buy guns. If Congress does not start doing their job and crafting carefully targeted gun control measures, such as if you are on the no-fly list, you should be on a no-buy list, then the blanket calls for gun bans will continue to rise.
12
Then there is Donald Trump. Could anything more disgusting come out of the sewer to try to take advantage of this tragic situation by attacking the Muslin community and accusing the president of defending and covering Islamic fanatics? From one extreme to another when we must come together Donald Trump would rather put a wedge between the American people.
6
Fitting comment when this was pretty much manufactured by Democrats.
1
I love The President, he's a bright and funny guy. Yesterday I watched him praise the cast of 'Hamilton' in a vid. I really like him. These shootings have one thing in common, and I do not accept that that thing is the AR-15. We are at war, if someone would want to please acknowledge that, it should be The President.
4
Americans need to join in and protect the LGBT community. This is the last wake up call. Politicians and legislatures should NOT be allowed to pass hate legislation such as the "bathroom bills". Politicians and religious leaders should not be allowed to call out their personal religious beliefs of sin and hatred of groups which has become a sport in recent election cycles. Politicians and elected officials should be required to report their financial relationship with the NRA and their votes on gun regulations. By the way this would not only help protect the LGBT community but all of America.
4
Does it really matter the motivation? Should we feel better about the Sandy Hook and Virginia Tech killers because they didn't have an issue demagogued by Donald Trump?
This happens in American more than any other place because we accept weapons of mass destruction as pieces of commerce. Until that changes, it's just a matter of time before the next slaughter.
This happens in American more than any other place because we accept weapons of mass destruction as pieces of commerce. Until that changes, it's just a matter of time before the next slaughter.
22
Last summer, we watched French police, ostensibly waiting for instructions, stand for several hours behind cars listening to the rat-tat of gunfire at the concert venue, in which scores of people were murdered by Islamic terrorists, before taking action.
New York City's William Bratton said at that time that the NYPD is trained not to wait. It's high time for police departments across the country to recognize that the longer they hold back from intervening in such situations, the more people will be killed.
When violent individuals -- be they Islamic terrorists, anti-abortion or anti-Black white trash, video game-obsessed teenagers, or what have you -- own weapons capable of killing many in minutes, every minute counts.
Ideally, we would allow none but active military personnel and police to carry weapons that can shoot, say, twenty or so elementary-school schoolchildren in ten minutes.
Those who want to protect their homes in places far from police precincts, or those who need to kill deer for their winter's food supply, or those who like to shoot for sport, can do so with less lethal weapons, with weapons that were for a century perfectly adequate for those purposes.
But a large industry, to which our politicians are beholden, would suffer some setbacks.
Constitutional rights my foot.
New York City's William Bratton said at that time that the NYPD is trained not to wait. It's high time for police departments across the country to recognize that the longer they hold back from intervening in such situations, the more people will be killed.
When violent individuals -- be they Islamic terrorists, anti-abortion or anti-Black white trash, video game-obsessed teenagers, or what have you -- own weapons capable of killing many in minutes, every minute counts.
Ideally, we would allow none but active military personnel and police to carry weapons that can shoot, say, twenty or so elementary-school schoolchildren in ten minutes.
Those who want to protect their homes in places far from police precincts, or those who need to kill deer for their winter's food supply, or those who like to shoot for sport, can do so with less lethal weapons, with weapons that were for a century perfectly adequate for those purposes.
But a large industry, to which our politicians are beholden, would suffer some setbacks.
Constitutional rights my foot.
6
America -is- the NRA killing field. We have this coming, day after day, night after night. Let's legalize full automatic weapons. I want to protect myself with a machine gun!
4
According to the Washington Post: "Shooter Omar Mateen’s father says he’s saddened by massacre, calls gunman ‘a good son’" at:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the-orlando-shooters-afghan-roots/2...
"In one video, the elder Mateen expresses gratitude toward the Afghan Taliban while denouncing the Pakistani government."
I am under the impression (from watching the news since 9/11) that the Taliban not only protected Bin Laden and helped make 9/11 possible, but that its members have killed many U.S. soldiers (among others). Isn't support for such a group giving aid and comfort to the enemy? And why didn't our FBI (and NSA) know about his support for such groups? And why didn't that plus his son's attraction to ISIS at least put them on heightened scrutiny?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the-orlando-shooters-afghan-roots/2...
"In one video, the elder Mateen expresses gratitude toward the Afghan Taliban while denouncing the Pakistani government."
I am under the impression (from watching the news since 9/11) that the Taliban not only protected Bin Laden and helped make 9/11 possible, but that its members have killed many U.S. soldiers (among others). Isn't support for such a group giving aid and comfort to the enemy? And why didn't our FBI (and NSA) know about his support for such groups? And why didn't that plus his son's attraction to ISIS at least put them on heightened scrutiny?
3
Whenever something like this happens, it seems the families describe the murders "as good boys" and don't understand how this could have happened.
3
Banning Muslims-the killer was born in the USA. Nothing that Mr. Trump said or would have done would have prevented this. To take credit for something that would not have prevented tragedy this is craven. Me, me, me is not a way to lead a country.
5
This isn't about hate crimes, Trumpism, gun control or any of the other issues that those commenting would have us believe.
Rather, this is about why was it possible for a lone gunman to tote an automatic weapon and ammunition into a crowded, liquor-fueled nightclub at 2:30 AM on a Saturday night? The owners of this club are purely and unequivocally responsible for what happened, not ISIS, not the NRA, and not our political leadership.
Armed security at every entrance - even airport-type metal detectors - are common-sense measures that could and should have been taken to prevent this tragedy.
Shame on those owners for putting profits over customer safety.
Rather, this is about why was it possible for a lone gunman to tote an automatic weapon and ammunition into a crowded, liquor-fueled nightclub at 2:30 AM on a Saturday night? The owners of this club are purely and unequivocally responsible for what happened, not ISIS, not the NRA, and not our political leadership.
Armed security at every entrance - even airport-type metal detectors - are common-sense measures that could and should have been taken to prevent this tragedy.
Shame on those owners for putting profits over customer safety.
2
ISIS partnered with gun control advocates to carry out this horrific murder. Gun control supporters made Pulse a gun-free zone, disarming the victims but not the murderer. Every gun control advocate is an accomplice, equally guilty as Mateen
3
The problem is two-fold. Firstly there is the growing inability of Americans to hold civil discourse over differences in opinion, compounded by fear/distrust/hate of "the other" (egged on by right-wing media and politicians. Secondly, there is the unbelievable access to weapons that are designed to kill lots of people as quickly as possible. The death of the Newtown children changed very little insofar as gun cotnrol goes, so I have no confidence that the deaths of the Pulse victims will change anything. And for that I lay the blame squarely at the foot of the right-wing, the Republicants, the NRA, and all the ignorant people who cannot see the difference between responsible ownership of a hunting rifle or shotgun and the inexcusable "need" for a military-style weapon. THESE DEATHS ARE ON YOUR HEAD.
And to all those who are so ready to blame the Muslim community: Nobody needs the excuse of ISIS or "radical Islam". This could just as well have been driven by some warped "Christian" ideology. So many of the comments demonstrate just how strongly the distrust of "the other" has been cultivated in this country--no wonder Trump took the opportunity to congratulate himself.
And to all those who are so ready to blame the Muslim community: Nobody needs the excuse of ISIS or "radical Islam". This could just as well have been driven by some warped "Christian" ideology. So many of the comments demonstrate just how strongly the distrust of "the other" has been cultivated in this country--no wonder Trump took the opportunity to congratulate himself.
3
In Paris, after 130 innocent people were massacred, the authorities immediately began looking at what failed in their security procedures, what was appropriate in the way of new/revised measures over personal freedom and they began hunting down (successfully) others who would do it again.
In the US, we suspended and are investigating officers involved in the killing of the shooter, we are arguing over whether this is Islamist related and we are blaming lack of gun control as the main reason it happened and the solution for stopping the next one!
We have no chance with leaders like this. Trump is right, the President should step down and let someone who knows how to react take over.....maybe Francois Hollande?
In the US, we suspended and are investigating officers involved in the killing of the shooter, we are arguing over whether this is Islamist related and we are blaming lack of gun control as the main reason it happened and the solution for stopping the next one!
We have no chance with leaders like this. Trump is right, the President should step down and let someone who knows how to react take over.....maybe Francois Hollande?
2
For me this is a clear fail of FBI. If you want to win an enemy you should learn his language and understand his thoughts and communications. Well, it seems that that FBI is not very fluent in learning different languages. From the signal of hate reasoning they should conclude that they must talk with its very limited private social network. But looking at the comments it seems that the politically correct is above the correct without adjectives. Probably the same was true for FBI.
1
Right, because the Federal Government is not doing enough to spy on the citizenry.
Those victims didn't stand a chance no matter how well trained the FBI and secret service is. There was a weak link in the hiring and not firing of that terrorist.
This dude was hired by the biggest security firm in the USA and had been interviewed by the FBI three times about radical Islamic connections so why wasn't he fired from his job? After all the terrorist dude was a security officer; the victims didn't stand a chance.
Even more appalling is the fact that the USA firm that employed him is responsible for the security of all nuclear facilities in the USA. Isn't this ringing alarm bells for anyone in the USA?
This dude was hired by the biggest security firm in the USA and had been interviewed by the FBI three times about radical Islamic connections so why wasn't he fired from his job? After all the terrorist dude was a security officer; the victims didn't stand a chance.
Even more appalling is the fact that the USA firm that employed him is responsible for the security of all nuclear facilities in the USA. Isn't this ringing alarm bells for anyone in the USA?
4
The killer's job had nothing to do with this massacre. He could have just as easily killed all those people if he was unemployed. Clearly, somebody dropped the ball in not putting a mark on his name to prohibit weapon sales to him.
The head of the FBI should resign over his agency's failure to follow up on this mad man.
Why was he allowed to buy guns so easily so he could act out his mental illness on innocent Americans?
Why was he allowed to buy guns so easily so he could act out his mental illness on innocent Americans?
3
Good question, ask the NRA.
5
Ask the folks you elected, that's why you sent them to Washington. The NRA has no obligation except to its membership, like the Clinton Foundation.
2
Worth pointing out that this is the same FBI that has yet to indite Hillary Clinton who clearly and blatantly broke two US federal laws. The point is, someone upstairs is playing the fiddle strings and I really don't think the FBI are the ones we should be holding accountable. What's happening right now, in this country, with these events, the coronation of Hillary Clinton by the establishment, entirely eliminating the democratic process, this is much much bigger and I'm starting to believe that day the conspiracy theorists has spoken of is rapidly approaching.
2
Issues of gun reform aside, we have a serious dilemma with our understanding, even at the professional level, of Islamic extremism, religious fanaticism, and mental illness. The FBI on multiple occasions "misses" individuals like Omar Mateen, who lacks sophisticated or significant ties to terrorist organizations and their members but demonstrates a pattern of mental instability (domestic abuse; attempted isolation of a partner; profession-based access to weapons; homophobia; explicit and open desire to kill others et al.).
Whilst it is certainly nothing to look over, Mateen's allegiance to ISIS is just the justification with which he carried out his actions. As members of a "developed," "enlightened," "first-world" society, we ought to pay closer attention to the roots of a person's behaviors--not just the actual behaviors. When Mateen grew angry over the gay couple he came across in Miami, his parents should have been alarmed. When Mateen's coworker informed law enforcement of Mateen's desire to kill people, the FBI should have made direct contact with Mateen's employer and the employer should have, at the very least, considered mental health interventions for Mateen. People like Mateen do not need ISIS to commit these acts (and most will commit similar acts with or without the veil that is a terrorist organization), but ISIS serves as a convenient excuse--both for Mateen and for us, who like to think that our laws and resource allocation are just fine the way they are.
Whilst it is certainly nothing to look over, Mateen's allegiance to ISIS is just the justification with which he carried out his actions. As members of a "developed," "enlightened," "first-world" society, we ought to pay closer attention to the roots of a person's behaviors--not just the actual behaviors. When Mateen grew angry over the gay couple he came across in Miami, his parents should have been alarmed. When Mateen's coworker informed law enforcement of Mateen's desire to kill people, the FBI should have made direct contact with Mateen's employer and the employer should have, at the very least, considered mental health interventions for Mateen. People like Mateen do not need ISIS to commit these acts (and most will commit similar acts with or without the veil that is a terrorist organization), but ISIS serves as a convenient excuse--both for Mateen and for us, who like to think that our laws and resource allocation are just fine the way they are.
1
Hillary, ever the chameleon, at first shied away from calling it an act of radical Islamic terrorism, but then changed her mind after Trump criticized her. She will say and do anything to advance her own interests including lying when she feels it to be necessary. Crises like this one test one's character and judgment both of which she is obviously lacking in.
6
As long as individuals not only don't FEAR death, but proactively SEEK it, it will be extremely difficult--if not impossible--to stop acts of terror. Whenever murderers--whether or not they are religious zealots committing an act that they have been convinced will make them a martyr--are prepared to surrender their life in exchange for taking the lives of others, the only way to prevent them from acting out is to identify and stop them before they take action. Sadly, even if every member of law enforcement and every psychiatrist in the country spent their entire time devoted to this pursuit, the risk of an attack would always be there. We need to do everything legal and ethical (which rules out Trump entirely) that we can, but temper our expectations at the same time.
1
In the words of US Army General Stanley A McChrystal (ret.),
"For every innocent person you kill, you make 10 new enemies."
"For every innocent person you kill, you make 10 new enemies."
1
with yesterday's attacks, ISIS made zero enemies among Democrats
3
As has been pointed out, the gun lobby and its cronies in Congress have gone out of their way to prevent the goverment from collecting, sharing, and using data to prevent people from buying guns. Ergo, we have no fly lists but not no gun lists. We also descry government spying on us and invading our privacy. So again, we're horrified but can't do anything about it.
3
I'm always astonished by the movie posters I see in NYC subways...so many of them highlight guns: Actors holding guns. Logos made of gun silhouettes, Guns guns guns.
Rape culture.
Gun culture.
Stupid culture?
Yes.
Rape culture.
Gun culture.
Stupid culture?
Yes.
7
The ancients call this the Kaliyug for that reason, when human beings degenerate and violence and greed become the norm..
1
I always thought the justification for being able to buy and own guns was so the gun bearer could defend him/herself from robbers, criminals and psychopaths. Where are all the armed civilians when they are needed? How many massacres have been prevented or stopped by armed members of the NRA. Although do we really want armed and untrained civilians shooting wildly and killing innocent bystanders?
1
Abiding by the "gun free zone" that the nightclub was.
1
In the NRA's version of the world, all the attendees at the nightclub should have been armed. I guess they would need to carry their ART-15 on them when they dance. Checking the weapon in at the front would defeat the purpose of being "the good guy with a gun"
Shoot shoot shoot. glorify glorify glorify violence. That is what America has come to. Its perhaps the most dangerous country in the world today.
2
Syria would like to have a word with you.
1
Is there a war going on in America?
Obama and Hillary are trying to make us believe they can prevent terrorist attacks with gun control legislation and by taking away our second amendment rights.
How are they going to stop terrorists from obtaining weapons when Obama can't even prevent illegals and drugs from crossing our borders? They will simply add guns to the list of items they are bringing across our borders.
The only people that will end up without guns are law abiding American citizens.
How are they going to stop terrorists from obtaining weapons when Obama can't even prevent illegals and drugs from crossing our borders? They will simply add guns to the list of items they are bringing across our borders.
The only people that will end up without guns are law abiding American citizens.
3
Obama can do it, just like ObamaCare fixed healthcare
4
To bad they haven't paid any attention to Europe. How many terrorist attacks in Europe in recent years? Like, a lot, maybe a dozen. How are gun laws over there? Oh, that's right, they don't have guns.
This is why as I've said on here time and time again, anyone who sites the NRA as being responsible or guns in general, their comment is immediately deemed invalid. This is behavior and cultural issue, one of which is nurtured by Democrats. What's most concerning is the comments below, pointing fingers at everyone, but themselves. Our country is mess right now and it's really amazing how at the beginning I was mortified that Trump could even be a candidate to consider and now I'm to the point, that I don't know how this country moves forward without someone like him taking office and cleaning out the crap we have in government and infecting out citizens with NWO propaganda.
This is why as I've said on here time and time again, anyone who sites the NRA as being responsible or guns in general, their comment is immediately deemed invalid. This is behavior and cultural issue, one of which is nurtured by Democrats. What's most concerning is the comments below, pointing fingers at everyone, but themselves. Our country is mess right now and it's really amazing how at the beginning I was mortified that Trump could even be a candidate to consider and now I'm to the point, that I don't know how this country moves forward without someone like him taking office and cleaning out the crap we have in government and infecting out citizens with NWO propaganda.
1
It is remarkable how our anti-terrorism efforts devote such substantial resources to preventing bomb-related attacks, while any nut case who wishes to can easily obtain a semi-automatic or automatic assault weapon and massacre dozens of people by simply walking into a club or a school or a theater or a mall. Our lax gun laws are as insane as the serial killers who take advantage of them. When will the vast silent majority of those who support reasonable limitations on guns stand up against the NRA and its strident minority of followers? The Supreme Court's Heller case, which guarantees the right to bear arms for self-defense, specifically states that it does not create an obstacle to reasonable limits, yet the politicians quake before the NRA. Decency requires that they quake instead before this pathetic and never ending string of tragedies and let that be their motivation.
3
Hi, just asking you to clarify on how one easily obtains an automatic weapon. Such have been illegal since 1934. Please tell us that, for without that point, your entire argument falls to ruins.
The FBI needs to review its criteria for "closing" a file on a suspect. And we need more funding for their operations, so they can go after and weed-out every potential trouble-maker. If he had been evaluated by the FBI, he ought to have been put on a list that would prevent him from ever getting a gun.
And all semi-automatic weapons need an electronic mechanism that limits their function to their registered owner, plus a real-time GPS signaling mechanism that lets authorities know where the weapon is and when it is loaded. And if the GPS mechanism is tampered with, the weapon shuts off.
And all semi-automatic weapons need an electronic mechanism that limits their function to their registered owner, plus a real-time GPS signaling mechanism that lets authorities know where the weapon is and when it is loaded. And if the GPS mechanism is tampered with, the weapon shuts off.
2
There is a firm feeling in the country against forfeiting constitutional rights to the action of law enforcement, effectively unreviewable by the courts. In other words, no.
Multiple public killings in the US focuses the mind, but that focus allows some of us to claim some sort of high ground. Among this group, how many drive while they talk on cell phones (distracted driving)? How many drive under the influence of drugs or alcohol? According to AAA, distracted driving is responsible for about 5,000 US highway deaths per year. And according MADD, twenty-seven people die each day in the US as a result of drunk driving.
1
The extreme left including our President are deaf to facts. I am totally in favor of
an assault weapon ban. I am totally in favor of background checks. However, this man was working as an armed security guard totally known to the FBI and would have had a gun even with extreme gun laws in place. Nothing in gun law proposals will stop a suicide vest. Nothing in background check proposals will stop someone vetted and ignored by the FBI. The problem is extremist muslims who want us all dead. Until we attack the problem, nothing will stop mass murders.
an assault weapon ban. I am totally in favor of background checks. However, this man was working as an armed security guard totally known to the FBI and would have had a gun even with extreme gun laws in place. Nothing in gun law proposals will stop a suicide vest. Nothing in background check proposals will stop someone vetted and ignored by the FBI. The problem is extremist muslims who want us all dead. Until we attack the problem, nothing will stop mass murders.
2
It is no surprise that the horrific attack in Orlando would eventually be turned into a political issue. Trump wasted no time with his tweets proving even more that he is unsuited for the Presidency by making it all about him. In a bizarre twist of him trying to make claim to "being right" in he actually proved how wrong he is.
Given what little we know at this point (presumption and ignorance have never been an obstacle to Trump's rants) the shooter was a hate filled misogynist and gay hating American Born psychopath plain and simple. Utterances of ISIS support does little to prove this is little more then a deranged lunatic rather then deeply religious or politically inspired event.
To suggest otherwise is to suggest every mass shooting by a Christian is Christian Terrorism; or by a White Male is White Male Terrorism; or by a gun owner is Gun Owner Terrorism; or by a Black or Hispanic is Terrorism by Black or Hispanic (rarely if ever do we see mass shootings by woman).
Are we going to round up every man in America; are we going to ban every Christian from America; is every Black or Hispanic person to be thrown in jail.
The fact is if you look at what we know of the Shooter, his profile of hate, anger, threats, and bizarre behaviors sounds a lot more like Trump then anyone or anything else. Based on that maybe we should ban Trump from America.
Given what little we know at this point (presumption and ignorance have never been an obstacle to Trump's rants) the shooter was a hate filled misogynist and gay hating American Born psychopath plain and simple. Utterances of ISIS support does little to prove this is little more then a deranged lunatic rather then deeply religious or politically inspired event.
To suggest otherwise is to suggest every mass shooting by a Christian is Christian Terrorism; or by a White Male is White Male Terrorism; or by a gun owner is Gun Owner Terrorism; or by a Black or Hispanic is Terrorism by Black or Hispanic (rarely if ever do we see mass shootings by woman).
Are we going to round up every man in America; are we going to ban every Christian from America; is every Black or Hispanic person to be thrown in jail.
The fact is if you look at what we know of the Shooter, his profile of hate, anger, threats, and bizarre behaviors sounds a lot more like Trump then anyone or anything else. Based on that maybe we should ban Trump from America.
8
Not to minimize the significance of the chosen target in this hideous assault, I am more drawn to the fact that America has given license to delusional people to act out their homicidal fantasies. The Second Amendment provides an individual right to own firearms; that issue is now settled law. What is not settled, however, is if that right extends to any sort of weapon that an individual chooses to own. That is a matter of political will.
Is there a magic number of victims that will compel Congress to act against high-powered assault-style weapons? Twenty schoolchildren dead in Newtown was obviously not it. Will 50 dead in Orlando be the impetus to rein in this stain on America's claim to exceptionalism? If not, how many? 100? 500? Perhaps some day multiple gunmen acting in concert will slaughter 1000 people. Will that number still be insufficient to move Congress?
Our shared national outrage over the 9/11 attacks led to the creation of a massive security and intelligence apparatus. Will 50 dead in Orlando lead to nothing more than a collective shrug? What will it take, people, what will it take?
Is there a magic number of victims that will compel Congress to act against high-powered assault-style weapons? Twenty schoolchildren dead in Newtown was obviously not it. Will 50 dead in Orlando be the impetus to rein in this stain on America's claim to exceptionalism? If not, how many? 100? 500? Perhaps some day multiple gunmen acting in concert will slaughter 1000 people. Will that number still be insufficient to move Congress?
Our shared national outrage over the 9/11 attacks led to the creation of a massive security and intelligence apparatus. Will 50 dead in Orlando lead to nothing more than a collective shrug? What will it take, people, what will it take?
6
How on earth did it take 3 hours for the police and SWAT forces to breach the nightclub and neutralize the shooter? The police can't wait for ideal conditions to enter while the shooter continues to execute people. This does not give me a lot of confidence in how authorities would respond to an even larger situation.
17
The fault is clearly on the shooter, but I hope the NYT follows up on the possibility of friendly fire in this tragedy. If there was friendly fire and someone was injured or worse, let's find out sooner rather than later.
CDC studies show the predominant perpetrators of violence against LGBT are LGBT individuals, typically in relationships. If a community cannot respect each other, how can they demand it from others.
This was an act or terrorism foremost. Homosexuality is against Muslim law in all cases.
This was an act or terrorism foremost. Homosexuality is against Muslim law in all cases.
1
Who cares what is against a religious law. LGBT people, and people in general, are under no obligation to follow superstitious nonsense. And your other comment is deplorable.
2
"CDC studies show the predominant perpetrators of violence against LGBT are LGBT individuals, typically in relationships. If a community cannot respect each other, how can they demand it from others."
This act has nothing to do with LGBT partner-on-partner violence. Your comment is utterly beside the point.
This act has nothing to do with LGBT partner-on-partner violence. Your comment is utterly beside the point.
1
Several thoughts -
What were the police doing that it took 3 HOURS to normalize this situation?
You say the problem is not guns? The problem is guns.
Where is congress? Cowering for fear of an 'F' rating from the NRA.
Some will say round up the muslims. And do what, put them in camps?
I say round up the guns, at least we know what t do with them (throw them in the blast furnace).
A lot of people spew anti gay and racist remarks in public in support of Donald Trump. What to do with them? Does spewing constitute a crime? A trigger for an FBI investigation?
Regarding the breaking of the law, wasn't that night club overcrowded? I mean WAY overcrowded. Like the station disaster in RI. Look it up.
What were the police doing that it took 3 HOURS to normalize this situation?
You say the problem is not guns? The problem is guns.
Where is congress? Cowering for fear of an 'F' rating from the NRA.
Some will say round up the muslims. And do what, put them in camps?
I say round up the guns, at least we know what t do with them (throw them in the blast furnace).
A lot of people spew anti gay and racist remarks in public in support of Donald Trump. What to do with them? Does spewing constitute a crime? A trigger for an FBI investigation?
Regarding the breaking of the law, wasn't that night club overcrowded? I mean WAY overcrowded. Like the station disaster in RI. Look it up.
Whats the chance this admin deports his radical parents? His father is ISIS or pro-Taliban. We need to declare WAR officially on ISIS and Taliban and then arrest and deport ANYONE aiding and abetting them...period...simple. And this will ONLY be done by TRUMP. So so long Grandma Hillary we don't need 4 more years of PC madness.
3
Declare war on a JV Team that poses no threat to America?
Anyone else hearing faint echoes of American Beauty in this horrific event? From what has been disclosed to the press we know that Omar Matteen was a wife beating repressed gay Muslim who felt repulsed by how freely other homosexuals of other backgrounds and religions were able to express themselves. The last minute allegiance to ISIS was simply nothing more than a feint at hiding his own homosexuality. A tragedy that could have been averted if he realized that here in America he could have simply been who he was and throw off the evil fetters of his religion and cultural upbringing.
3
This is a possible scenario, but there is not enough evidence to declare it probable. It's speculation at this point.
Earthlings,
"And he piled upon the whale's white hump, the sum of all the rage and hate felt by his whole race. If his chest had been a cannon, he would have shot his heart upon it." -- Moby Dick by Herman Melville
My heart bleeds for the families and friends who have lost a loved one. They [ISIS] think they can defeat us, to start a civilian war agains Muslims in the US, Europe. To ignite terror on our hearts, but our hearts are made of diamonds. Ours shine brighter than all the stars in the galaxy. We believe in a better world. In justice. In freedom.
The barbaric senseless murders in Orlando are beyond evil - they are inhumane and a disgrace for our species Homo Sapiens. This has nothing to do with religion.
We think we all have surpassed our basic malevolent/aggressive instict, that we have become logical and reasonable people, but we are emotional beings. You are not Vulcan. We believe that in this century, we don't succumb to revenge - that we have a more evolved sensibility.
Some are against change, against happiness, against gays. They are against our way of living in freedom - dancing, drinking good whiskey/wine, eating delicious food with family, friends and lovers, reading a good book, being an artist to express yourself and be inspired by other people and cultures. To live in peace. To choose wether to believe in a god or not. To choose who we love.
They want to disrupt the equality and peace of our lives in - they will fail! Thank you for time. Love,
"And he piled upon the whale's white hump, the sum of all the rage and hate felt by his whole race. If his chest had been a cannon, he would have shot his heart upon it." -- Moby Dick by Herman Melville
My heart bleeds for the families and friends who have lost a loved one. They [ISIS] think they can defeat us, to start a civilian war agains Muslims in the US, Europe. To ignite terror on our hearts, but our hearts are made of diamonds. Ours shine brighter than all the stars in the galaxy. We believe in a better world. In justice. In freedom.
The barbaric senseless murders in Orlando are beyond evil - they are inhumane and a disgrace for our species Homo Sapiens. This has nothing to do with religion.
We think we all have surpassed our basic malevolent/aggressive instict, that we have become logical and reasonable people, but we are emotional beings. You are not Vulcan. We believe that in this century, we don't succumb to revenge - that we have a more evolved sensibility.
Some are against change, against happiness, against gays. They are against our way of living in freedom - dancing, drinking good whiskey/wine, eating delicious food with family, friends and lovers, reading a good book, being an artist to express yourself and be inspired by other people and cultures. To live in peace. To choose wether to believe in a god or not. To choose who we love.
They want to disrupt the equality and peace of our lives in - they will fail! Thank you for time. Love,
Why is it so easy to purchase or otherwise gain access to assault rifles?
4
Paris and Brussels should have demonstrated to the left that more gun controls, more anti-gun laws and the reliance on said laws to keep one safe does not work all of the time. Terrorists seem to be able to acquire their weapons of choice where ever and when ever then want whether they are banned, illegal or "non-existent" in a very civilized society.
What is always lacking is the VICTIMS' ability to protect themselves.
What is always lacking is the VICTIMS' ability to protect themselves.
3
Dear Sir/Madame, in all the mass shootings of recent memory, was one assailant ever stopped or slowed down by a 'vigilant gun owner' who happened to be nearby? That is the myth the NRA would like you to believe, that you would be safer if there are more guns. The reality is the opposite.
3
HCNY1105 - In answer to your question most of the "mass shootings" in recent memory were done in GUN FREE ZONES. That would preclude a legal gun owner from using a gun against the evil perpetrator since having a gun in that zone would be illegal!
The MYTH of the left is that one can be protected by a paper sign that states the area is a GUN FREE ZONE!
The MYTH of the left is that one can be protected by a paper sign that states the area is a GUN FREE ZONE!
Once again, in the midst of our latest national slaughter of innocents, the GOP's POTUS nominee launches another racist attack against our President, preposterously demanding that he "resign", while congratulating himself for his supposed "prescience and certitude" about extremist Islam. Clearly there is no depth to which this repugnant, ignorant narcissist will not sink in his dangerous bombast and utter lack of judgment, as he stokes the worst hatred among us. As usual, Drumpf ignores the ease with which raging, bigoted Americans can obtain high capacity firearms, and his party grovels at the feet of the likes of Ted Nugent and Wayne LaPierre. Richard Blumenthal and Chris Murphy, Senators from Connecticut, are absolutely right: Congress is complicit in this massacre, and the impotent "thoughts and prayers" meme is rapidly becoming abhorrent, as the carnage continues. Drumpf merely confirms, for the umpteenth time, that he is unfit to ever set foot in the White House, and that his is a campaign of self-adulation, fear and hatred, devoid of substance or reason. This nation has become rabidly ill, obsessed with phallic weaponry, and it is long past time to put an end to the bloodshed. It is also time to put the GOP out to pasture - theirs is a party of hatred, fear, xenophobia, ignorance, and violence. We don't need more "thoughts and prayers" -we need action to stop the bullets.
6
Obama should resign. The yellow gutless coward Obama is offering protection, aid, and comfort to the enemy by defecting attention from them. Obama says they're a JV Team to avoid having to deal with them. Obama is a traitor
He could not have killed that many people so easily without this ultra powerful high capacity weapon he was able to purchase in the US. Period.
10
Isn't possible to alert FBI when a person interrogated in the past for links to terrorism buys a assault rifle ? In this information age, it is not at all difficult.
2
As a straight, celibate, creative woman, I have worked with gay men and have gay friends and acquaintances. They are genuinely kind, nice people. They have always treated me with respect and kindness. I have never been sexually assaulted or subjected to rude or obscene remarks on the street or been objectified and treated like garbage by anyone gay. I cannot say the same for straight men. I have also met many Muslims and found them to be generous, welcoming, and lovely people. We have got to stop hating people simply because they're "different" and not what we see in the mirror.
7
Republicans in Congress refused to pass a law outlawing the sale of guns to people on the FBI terrorist watch list. If Congress had passed that law maybe this ISIS sympathizer would not have been able to buy his guns. But more importantly, what's next for us thanks to our criminally negligent Republican Congress? Gun shops selling bullet-proof vests so that we can go out safely? And also bullets that can pierce bullet-proof vests so that the good guys with guns can shoot the bad guys with the bullet-proof vests? Are we eventually going to be forced by Republicans and the NRA to never leave the house without full body armor and with our guns locked and loaded? What kind of dystopian world do Republicans want us to live in for God's sake? Stop the bloody madness. Vote Republicans out in November.
5
As a first generation immigrant to the US from the same part of the world as this mass murderer, the thing I appreciate as much as anything else in this country is the right to privacy. While one may not share the gender preferences of the LGBT, one shares with them the right to party without disturbing others. This selfie-taking jahil (there is no english equivalent for this urdu word - but it is used to refer to a man who is a combination of stupid, ignorant and aggressive) used his "right to firearms" to invade the right to privacy of these people and to commit murder.
19
It appears that there is a full-scale campaign going on to re-define this attack as one on the gay population, as opposed to a Muslim terrorist attack on Americans. President Obama and now Hilary, who needs his support to get the black vote, have not mentioned the word Islamist so far. Even the NYT reluctantly mentions that the killer is a Muslim terrorist, but various op-ed pieces (some masquerading as journalism) are trying to downplay this.
I can understand this from Obama, who is pro-Muslim (remember the Charlie Hebdo march and other incidents?) but Hilary?
Our political correctness and kid gloves in treating Muslims have led to this.
Trump is the only one who seems to care and have a grasp on the seriousness of the situation.
Will I still be voting for Hilary? I'll wait and see how she reacts in the coming days.
I can understand this from Obama, who is pro-Muslim (remember the Charlie Hebdo march and other incidents?) but Hilary?
Our political correctness and kid gloves in treating Muslims have led to this.
Trump is the only one who seems to care and have a grasp on the seriousness of the situation.
Will I still be voting for Hilary? I'll wait and see how she reacts in the coming days.
2
Daily life is quite grim in the USA regarding gun violence. All you can do is hope that you won't be in the wrong place at the wrong time. And if you do end up in the wrong place at the wrong time, at least take comfort in the fact that your death--while pointless and tragic--will be painless and instantaneous provided a bullet hits you in the brain or heart. This is a better fate, it can be argued, than that endured and suffered by an under-65 cancer patient in the United States.
Despite some additional protections provided by the Affordable Care Act, cancer patients not eligible for Medicare in the USA are likely to suffer horribly as they do battle against profit-oriented insurance companies that do not wish to pay for their hospital care. A great many American cancer patients still find themselves farmed out to nursing homes and other assorted "clinics" where they will likely suffer painful, drawn-out deaths in places staffed by good-hearted people who are nonetheless unqualified to care for people suffering from cancer.
That about sums up America in 2016. A truly grim cost-benefit analysis is something that Americans must mentally perform every single day now, so long as the government does nothing. Don't tell me this is a thriving, successful society. Don't tell me that if all immigration controls were lifted worldwide, then half or more of the world's people would choose to enter the United States. They sure as hell would not.
Despite some additional protections provided by the Affordable Care Act, cancer patients not eligible for Medicare in the USA are likely to suffer horribly as they do battle against profit-oriented insurance companies that do not wish to pay for their hospital care. A great many American cancer patients still find themselves farmed out to nursing homes and other assorted "clinics" where they will likely suffer painful, drawn-out deaths in places staffed by good-hearted people who are nonetheless unqualified to care for people suffering from cancer.
That about sums up America in 2016. A truly grim cost-benefit analysis is something that Americans must mentally perform every single day now, so long as the government does nothing. Don't tell me this is a thriving, successful society. Don't tell me that if all immigration controls were lifted worldwide, then half or more of the world's people would choose to enter the United States. They sure as hell would not.
1
On the FBI radar as a possible extremist, checked out, but not confirmed regarding identifiable terrorist ties.
Had talked often to co-workers (security guards) about killing people and his hatred for gays, blacks, women and Jews.
Legally bought as yet unspecified long gun and hand gun days before this slaughter.
Obviously ISIS inspired, they were quick to claim him as one of theirs.
The domestic political response has been entirely predictable, offering nothing innovative.
Seems there were lots of dots that did not get connected.
As long as we are vulnerable from within and those associated with potential lone-wolves do not alert authorities about radical behavior it will be impossible to make all the right connections.
Condolences to all those effected by this senseless slaughter.
Had talked often to co-workers (security guards) about killing people and his hatred for gays, blacks, women and Jews.
Legally bought as yet unspecified long gun and hand gun days before this slaughter.
Obviously ISIS inspired, they were quick to claim him as one of theirs.
The domestic political response has been entirely predictable, offering nothing innovative.
Seems there were lots of dots that did not get connected.
As long as we are vulnerable from within and those associated with potential lone-wolves do not alert authorities about radical behavior it will be impossible to make all the right connections.
Condolences to all those effected by this senseless slaughter.
4
Donald Trump’s reported response to this massive killing encourages this act and the ones that will follow—watch and wait to see what occurs. Throughout history tyrants’ who “stir up the masses” trigger such outbursts—both those being condemned and vilified by tyrannical language and those who may respond apart from the civil authorities who feel they are justified in their actions.
Yes, I am calling Mr. Trump a tyrant; his language suggests he will control all if he is elected President of the United States. Mr. Trump’s actions as a “business man” shows a tyrant who will walk over investors in his projects so long as Mr. Trump gets his cut—the rest of the investors be dammed.
Watch and wait … such occurrences may well escalate, thanks to the encouragement of someone like Trump with his tyrannical tendencies. Both followers of the tyrant and those being demonized will respond.
Yes, I am calling Mr. Trump a tyrant; his language suggests he will control all if he is elected President of the United States. Mr. Trump’s actions as a “business man” shows a tyrant who will walk over investors in his projects so long as Mr. Trump gets his cut—the rest of the investors be dammed.
Watch and wait … such occurrences may well escalate, thanks to the encouragement of someone like Trump with his tyrannical tendencies. Both followers of the tyrant and those being demonized will respond.
5
The Democrats want to abolish the Constitution. Clearly, Obama , Hillary, and leftists are the tyrannical dictators
3
The shooter supposedly had been under investigation by the FBI for suspected ties to terrorism, and yet he still was able to pass a federal background check to legally buy guns.
What is the value of a background check if it doesn't even flag a man with suspected ties to terrorism? There is none. Politicians put the money and power of the NRA before public safety. Until we get money out of politics, the gun massacres will never end.
We need to change our elected officials as well, starting with the Lt. Governor of Texas who tweeted after the Orlando massacre "you reap what you sow," meaning the victims had it coming because they were gay.
What is the value of a background check if it doesn't even flag a man with suspected ties to terrorism? There is none. Politicians put the money and power of the NRA before public safety. Until we get money out of politics, the gun massacres will never end.
We need to change our elected officials as well, starting with the Lt. Governor of Texas who tweeted after the Orlando massacre "you reap what you sow," meaning the victims had it coming because they were gay.
4
And yet there are those calling for more background checks. Go figure.
By playing up the,GAY angle, the press plays a vital role in sustaining the logic of terrorism. Congratulations, press!
1
Excuse me? Did you realize that the bar was celebrating Latin night? Have some compassion. Gay Latino are humans too. That the gunman targeted a club frequented by gay Latino speaks much about hatred.
2
After so many of these mass shootings, we become almost numb to the horror. We go through the same song and dance each time - there is an outcry and politicians express sorrow for the deceased. We bury out dead, help our wounded to heal and do the same thing all over again the next time.
In the end, whether or not this particular crime was the result of Mateen being "radicalized" or just using ISIS as a smokescreen is the least meaningful part. What is important is how perilously easy it is for so many people who have no business owning a gun to not only be able to legally have access, but to purchase military style weapons and high capacity magazine that allow mass slaughter. It didn't matter that Mateen had been on the FBI's radar and questioned. It didn't matter that his first wife accused him of abuse. Because he had never been convicted of a felony, he had unhindered access to guns.
There will always be a reason that people decide to walk into a building and being killing. Whether it's radical Islam, homophobia, white nationalism, mental illness... the end results are the same. Innocent people dying. The one concrete thing we can do is make it harder for those who wish to do harm to have access to the tools that will allow them to take numerous lives in a matter of minutes.
In the end, whether or not this particular crime was the result of Mateen being "radicalized" or just using ISIS as a smokescreen is the least meaningful part. What is important is how perilously easy it is for so many people who have no business owning a gun to not only be able to legally have access, but to purchase military style weapons and high capacity magazine that allow mass slaughter. It didn't matter that Mateen had been on the FBI's radar and questioned. It didn't matter that his first wife accused him of abuse. Because he had never been convicted of a felony, he had unhindered access to guns.
There will always be a reason that people decide to walk into a building and being killing. Whether it's radical Islam, homophobia, white nationalism, mental illness... the end results are the same. Innocent people dying. The one concrete thing we can do is make it harder for those who wish to do harm to have access to the tools that will allow them to take numerous lives in a matter of minutes.
3
We also become numb to horror by TV glorifying violence as entertainment and when little boys and girls start target practice on video games as fun and play.
1
We are all hostages of the NRA.
12
So all the thorough examination of Islam in the context of this violent criminal's acts ignores the shooting that almost took place that would have been committed by a run-of-the-mill white guy from Indiana. Put that in your Politically Correct file. What apparently drove both of these acts is hatred of the LGBT community by individuals on the margins.
7
Military style assault weapons do not belong in public hands. They can have no purpose except mass killing.
6
If this was a military style assault weapon your point would resonate more. It wasn't, as 1000 comments yesterday and today reiterate.
Liar! Not one soldier nor even one armed force anywhere in the world uses the AR-15. Not one
2
What also saddens me greatly about this tragedy is in the second paragraph of this article: "Families of (26) victims had been notified." With all the hate and religious beliefs of homosexuality, many parents disown their children who are gay. Gays seek and form their own extended family that is crucial to being a loving human being. Heterosexuals will never know and realize the coming out process and accepting oneself as gay. This massacre has impacted the gay community and myself who have now been targeted by the beliefs of the Islamic State towards homosexuality.
4
If, as NRA supporters say, the actions of a few crazies with guns do not represent ALL law abiding gun owners, why do the actions of a few crazy Muslims represent ALL Muslims?
8
Because the ISIS-led Muslims have sworn to destroy America, and the NRA has sworn to defend it. Next question.
3
I've read many "solutions" to these incidents, and there's this common theme: bans and laws. Outlaw guns, outlaw homosexuality, whatever. It seems that the best America can come up with in these discussions is all about legal channels. I'm not advocating vigilantism or illegal solutions, merely suggesting that expecting this law or that law to fix this may be missing the whole point of why these incidents will keep happening.
Obama's refusal once again to label Islamic terrorism for what it is was an insult to every one of the victims of the Orlando atrocity. Instead he used the murder of 49 Americans to lobby once again for gun control. Americans are not going to give up their constitutional right to own firearms. But they will exercise their right to tell the truth about Islamic terrorism.
5
True, but not as big an insult as getting weepy in Hiroshima just before.... Memorial Day.
I agree that the American people will not give up their right to own firearms especially when there are people that can commit such evil acts, but do you think military weaponry should be in the hands of American citizens? It's never a handgun that commits such egregious mass murders
1
Have we finally gone far enough with this? How many dead bodies will it take before we stop protecting the imagined "rights" of far right gun owners? Most gun owners (myself included) don't own assault rifles. Most gun owners don't open carry. Most gun owners don't want assault weapons in their homes or neighborhoods anymore than they want the guy down the street to own a tank.
This is simply the latest in a list continuing list of massacres that will go on and on until someone in Washington decides to stand up to the gun lobby and the extreme right wing in this country.
The second amendment is, in its own terms, very clear. "A well REGULATED militia..."
Its time to grow a spine and regulate these weapons. Enough is enough.
This is simply the latest in a list continuing list of massacres that will go on and on until someone in Washington decides to stand up to the gun lobby and the extreme right wing in this country.
The second amendment is, in its own terms, very clear. "A well REGULATED militia..."
Its time to grow a spine and regulate these weapons. Enough is enough.
12
Some thought needs to be given to who is promoting "radical divisiveness". It is more destructive, pervasive, and a contributing cause of "radical Islam". When an entire group of people is singled out and considered in terms of how they are different and what they deserve in retaliation, it is the first step toward violence.
1
We could start with our good buds, the Saudis.
1
The Saudis are too busy bombing our enemies in Yemen and Libya to pay attention just now, Doug. Please don't rock the boat.
I am so sorry for the people murdered and wounded. What happened makes me extremely angry. Sometimes, tolerance is cowardice. There are hundreds of millions of Muslims whose belief system advocates silencing our music, smashing our museums, burning our libraries and murdering people for the sexual orientation. I don't know at what point a belief system turns from a religion to a barbaric superstition, but it's happening. Time to get wise. We're in the Seventh Century now, whether we like it or not.
9
It seems to me that better application of gun laws and background checks would help lessen shootings some. But guns are merely the tools used: what can America do to address the issues and motives that lead to someone picking up a gun to resolve them?
2
Stop sales at gun shows, unless an ATF booth is there to provide instant criminal checks. Stop kitchen table gun dealers in the South -- in SC they were able to buy / sell handguns without limit. After tightening up the state law, they were "restricted" to only 1 gun purchase per month. Progress, in the Palmetto State.
1
Can we revisit the rationale employed in 2004 by those members of Congress who refused to renew the assault weapon ban law enacted in 1994? Don't spend too much time searching since Trump just stated his reason for opposing such a ban in that Mateen should have been allowed to purchase this weapon so he could protect himself. The number of times people actually protect themselves with the likes of a AR-15 are stunningly few, but the number of those killed by it in mass shootings since 2004 is stunningly high.
12
I would really appreciate it if every talking about banning "assault weapons" could define what an "assault weapon" is.
2
Don't go there! A correct definition of "assault weapon" is strenuously eschewed by 2500 comments here, and yesterday.
1
They can't. they don't know automatic from semi-automatic, they are totally ignorant of guns yet want to send the Obama Youth door-to-door to confiscate them
4
This terrorist attack on America is no more about gun control than the 9-11 attacks were about air traffic control, or the Boston bombings about pressure cooker control. Terrorists will use whatever is at hand to do their deeds. On the news last night, there was a story about a man arrested in California, supposedly on his way to a gay pride parade, his car full of firearms and bomb-making equipment.
Sure, the deceased animal might not have had access to an AR-15 if they were illegal, or had never been manufactured, or didn't exist in the black market. So he would have thrown a home-made pipe bomb or 4 into the nightclub. Or, the deceased animal might never have committed this act of terrorism if, having been interviewed not once, but TWICE by the FBI, he was followed more carefully thereafter. Of course, he was an American citizen with no prior criminal history, so there are limits to our government's ability to constrain the activities of such individuals, as there should be.
Howling about the NRA won't affect those disaffected few who believe killing others is what their god or political ideology "wants." As for the targeting of LGBTs, spin the dial and listen to talk radio, and the venom emanating from the pulpits of self-styled "Christian" clergy. These folks are a clear and present danger to our national welfare, because millions believe what they say. The root cause of this tragedy is not guns, it's hate. If you don't address the root, you won't cure the disease.
Sure, the deceased animal might not have had access to an AR-15 if they were illegal, or had never been manufactured, or didn't exist in the black market. So he would have thrown a home-made pipe bomb or 4 into the nightclub. Or, the deceased animal might never have committed this act of terrorism if, having been interviewed not once, but TWICE by the FBI, he was followed more carefully thereafter. Of course, he was an American citizen with no prior criminal history, so there are limits to our government's ability to constrain the activities of such individuals, as there should be.
Howling about the NRA won't affect those disaffected few who believe killing others is what their god or political ideology "wants." As for the targeting of LGBTs, spin the dial and listen to talk radio, and the venom emanating from the pulpits of self-styled "Christian" clergy. These folks are a clear and present danger to our national welfare, because millions believe what they say. The root cause of this tragedy is not guns, it's hate. If you don't address the root, you won't cure the disease.
19
Masterfully written.
It's amazing how you managed to somehow target Christians in your screed, yet never once mentioned the impetus for the shooter in this attack. Let me help you with that, since the truth is obviously choking you: radical Islam.
How many Christians murdered gays at that nightclub again?
How many Christians murdered gays at that nightclub again?
2
Many studies have confirmed that guns are the single biggest cause of violent death in the US. So don't start with the "it's not guns, it's people" item. It just won't wash. Yes, people can obtain guns in other countries, yes there is violence there too, but you'll notice we have many more mass murders in the US than in Britain or Norway. The statistics don't lie.
1
Governor Scott can help his state instead of asking President Obama for emergency relief. He can start by repealing laws that allow easy access to purchase assault rifles, like the gunman bought, that does not require even a 3-day waiting period. At least if he only had a handgun, which requires a 3-day waiting period, it would be more difficult to kill that many people in such a short amount of time. When Jared Loughner shot Congresswoman Gabby Giffordds in Scottsdale, Arizona he used a handgun and then tried to reload. He did not use an assault rifle and he was unable to kill as many people as Mateen did early Sunday morning.
7
They should make the Pulse nightclub a gun-free zone! wait, it already was...
4
Maybe the FBI should wrap up the Hillary case and pay a little more attention to domestic terrorism, Hillary's seems like a case that one single agent should be able to close in a week and even that with long lunches and an early afternoon tee-time.
12
The terrible question that no one has asked- or wants to ask: Where all the deaths at the hands of the shooter or any by friendly-fire?
2
Additional officers rushed to the scene, he said, and entered the nightclub where they engaged in a gun battle with Mr. Mateen,...
In reference to my prior comment about *friendly fire*; it is important to know this. We have an American Police Force of thousands of individual police departments with numerous levels of training.- based on time, money and size. We know all too intimately the mindset of too many departments whereby, massive military equipment is used; rushing in- guns-ablaze with little preparation or tactics.
No one knows the level of expertise of the Orlando police department- but it is imperative to know and the Orlando Police department to be forthcoming about whose bullets killed 49 innocent individuals.
In reference to my prior comment about *friendly fire*; it is important to know this. We have an American Police Force of thousands of individual police departments with numerous levels of training.- based on time, money and size. We know all too intimately the mindset of too many departments whereby, massive military equipment is used; rushing in- guns-ablaze with little preparation or tactics.
No one knows the level of expertise of the Orlando police department- but it is imperative to know and the Orlando Police department to be forthcoming about whose bullets killed 49 innocent individuals.
1
This jihadist worked for a federal government contractor that was a security firm and contracted through Department of Home Land Security...designed to STOP terrorist attacks after 9/11.
Ironically enough the very agency designed to stop this type of terrorism is now part of the problem. The Islamonazi that perpetrated these murders was investigated numerous times after threats of violence over heard by co-workers. However, nothing was done to him ostensibly because of him being Muslim and the PC environment created by the government to protect those like him.
The government in general has been infiltrated by Muslim Brotherhood sympathizers due to cooperation by Obama and Hillary....so it should be no surprise that these type of terrorist are working in the government. Furthermore, it should be no surprise that the government will not condemn these actions for what they are....the real question is why is this allowed to happen in the United States of America? Why is the government openly allowing these jihadist to work for them? Why do they refuse to root these people out? Is this part of a grander conspiracy?
Ironically enough the very agency designed to stop this type of terrorism is now part of the problem. The Islamonazi that perpetrated these murders was investigated numerous times after threats of violence over heard by co-workers. However, nothing was done to him ostensibly because of him being Muslim and the PC environment created by the government to protect those like him.
The government in general has been infiltrated by Muslim Brotherhood sympathizers due to cooperation by Obama and Hillary....so it should be no surprise that these type of terrorist are working in the government. Furthermore, it should be no surprise that the government will not condemn these actions for what they are....the real question is why is this allowed to happen in the United States of America? Why is the government openly allowing these jihadist to work for them? Why do they refuse to root these people out? Is this part of a grander conspiracy?
3
well...you seem to have it all figured out. too bad you're not running the show! I'm sure we'd have some rational policies in place. btw, you forgot to mention the illuminati.
That's the problem with using contractors, you don't have any control over the people doing the jobs. The contract company management can also be infiltrated given enough time.
I'm guessing that airport security uses mostly contract workers so we might feel safe seeing all of the screening technology but its only as good as the weakest link, people.
I'm guessing that airport security uses mostly contract workers so we might feel safe seeing all of the screening technology but its only as good as the weakest link, people.
President Obama refuses to stress the threat of ISIS which is one of the influences on Omar Mareen's attack on the nightclub on Sunday morning. He is reluctant to stress the word radical Islamic terrorism and this is so obvious in his press conferences. He keeps talking about gun control but this man was a security guard and was allowed to carry firearms for his profession. If there had been a security guard or guards with a registered gun at this club, we would probably not have seen such a devastating outcome. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims' families at such a sad and unfortunate time.
4
does Obama still think ISIS is a JV Team that poses no threat to America?
I was moved by an interview of a leader of the LBGTQ community of Orlando, who was mourning in the aftermath of this massacre. He repeated not once but twice the solidarity not only toward his fellow victims, but also for the Muslim's community, who is also under an increasing attack of bigotry and racism. This man, despite the pain of this moment, was able to stand by one of the key tenet of American ethics: the concept of personal responsibility by which one is accountable only for one's actions and ideas. And in this particular case it is not only unethical but also incredibly stupid to attack a community of 1.5 billion people in the world for the actions of a tiny fraction of them. A fraction that seeks to gain strength and support precisely from the broad retaliatory responses of those that are under attack. It has perhaps never been so important as it is now to resist these visceral Trump-like responses that are so evident the desired goal of the terrorists. And for this it is quite appropriate for the President not to mention the word "Islam" in relation to these criminal murderous acts. Doing that would only give a reward to these monsters.
23
Donald Trump has seized on this tragic event to attack President Obama as being weak on terrorism. For once The Donald is embracing a traditional Republican strategy: over-simplify an issue and offer solutions that may sound attractive to some but that completely miss the target. As more is revealed about this shooter it's become clear that he was mentally ill and hated gay people. His crime had nothing to do with ISIS or Islam beyond offering this psychopath a delusional sense of identity. In that way, it's no different than the domestic terrorists who have murdered innocent people at abortion clinics in the name of Christianity. Further escalating the already massive war on terrorist organizations overseas and setting a religious criterion for immigration would do nothing to prevent the sort of crime that just occurred in Orlando. Making sensible efforts to keep weapons out of the hands of mentally ill persons might at least help us reduce the body count going forward.
6
Republicans like to point out that no gun restrictions will prevent all gun related homicides. The implication is always if restrictions can't be 100% effective why bother.
I'd like Trumpistas to realize that nothing their guru proposed about fighting terrorism would have stopped this attack. Even if he "temporarily" banned Muslims from entering the US, Mateen was born here. His registering Muslims and investigating them would have failed as well. Mateen was vetted twice by the FBI and twice by the security company he worked for. They found nothing. The weapons he bought, he bought legally.
Now, that said, I suppose Trump could have his father and mother executed on prime time TV. But, that wouldn't bring anyone back and I'd be willing to bet it would create a lot more Mateens.
I'd like Trumpistas to realize that nothing their guru proposed about fighting terrorism would have stopped this attack. Even if he "temporarily" banned Muslims from entering the US, Mateen was born here. His registering Muslims and investigating them would have failed as well. Mateen was vetted twice by the FBI and twice by the security company he worked for. They found nothing. The weapons he bought, he bought legally.
Now, that said, I suppose Trump could have his father and mother executed on prime time TV. But, that wouldn't bring anyone back and I'd be willing to bet it would create a lot more Mateens.
3
When fifty, 100, or one thousand or more innocents are killed by US terror strikes and US drones in the Middle East, their names are not published nor are their pictures broadcast. These people are labeled "collateral damage" by us. The best way to curb terror is for the US to quit doing it around the World. I deplore terror wherever and whenever it occurs, but a little introspection by the US is long overdue. Think drone strikes for starters.
4
To continually refer to an amendment that was enacted in 1791 as modern day law is completely ridiculous. To those of you stuck in 1791, I have no issue with you carrying a musket.
People who support the 2nd amendment usually can only recite 7 words of it 'I have the right to bear arms', and they haven't fully read it so they don't understand it's origin and meaning.
People who support the 2nd amendment usually can only recite 7 words of it 'I have the right to bear arms', and they haven't fully read it so they don't understand it's origin and meaning.
6
And I have no problem with you reading a one-page hand-printed leaflet or hearing the town crier-those were the press of 1791.
The AR-15 -- the rifle used by Mateen to kill or injure over 100 people in Orlando yesterday -- was also used in the San Bernardino attack, in the Aurora movie theater attack, and in Newtown. We should know by now that it is impossible to keep a mentally deranged, hate-filled person, whether linked to Islamic terrorism or not, from legally purchasing this gun. How many more innocents must die in workplaces, movie theaters, nightclubs, malls, and schools before we say ENOUGH? There is no legitimate nonmilitary use for this gun. BAN IT NOW.
11
My comforting thoughts to the victim's loved ones and families.
And to the community, never allow your happiness and way of life to be affected by these cowardly acts. Never!
The Rainbow is stronger than bullets :).
Marc.
And to the community, never allow your happiness and way of life to be affected by these cowardly acts. Never!
The Rainbow is stronger than bullets :).
Marc.
The shooting in Orlando was horrible, and we react with shock, grief and immeasurable sadness. We mourn for all of those lost and hurt.
Yet the headlines calling the shooting in Orlando the worst shooting on US soil are wrong. The worst shooting on US soil happened in 1890 when the 7th Calvary killed somewhere between 150 and 300 men, women and children at Wounded Knee.
Yet the headlines calling the shooting in Orlando the worst shooting on US soil are wrong. The worst shooting on US soil happened in 1890 when the 7th Calvary killed somewhere between 150 and 300 men, women and children at Wounded Knee.
2
Another act of violence by a crazy individual with guns and, once again, the only thing one can say is to express condolences to the families of the victims. And again, the same responses by the pundits and the politicians, ranging from banning Muslims to stiffer background checks to better mental care, and plenty of standard platitudes about ISIS, radicalization, lone wolf, and plenty of others in between. We have heard them all, and nothing changes. Why the press wastes its ink and its voice covering this type of news is even questionable given the results. Nothing, nothing, nothing, will ever be successful in stopping this madness unless we repeal the second amendment, burry it in the ashes of history, and replace it with an amendment that clearly says that my right to feel safe supersedes your right to shoot me.
3
I hold the TP/GOP Congress responsible for this reprehensible crime. The really cringeworthy thing about this is that they will still not vote to ban on assault weapons, even after the worst mass murder in US history. Do they need to be voted out~absolutely!
8
Every gun control advocate is just as guilty as Mateen. The gun control fascists made Pulse into a gun-free zone, thereby disarming the victims but allowing the shooter his weapon.
@ Larry, are you suggesting that we arm patrons of every night club around America even when it is nearly 2 am, have ready access to alcohol, possible access to illicit drugs (don't think it is not happening), and minor disputes easily arise in these settings? And by the way to say that gun regulation advocates are equally culpable is just as guilty as Mateen, implies that we should face prison terms or the death penalty.
1
All those readers focusing on guns, what if the terrorist had used homemade bombs or a suicide vest? Then what partisan hobbyhorse would you be riding?
3
Not too many "lone wolves" have the brains and expertise to make a bomb or vest powerful enough to kill 50 people. Any 8th Grade drop-out in America can buy an assault rifle and as much ammo as he wants.
8
Sorry, I must have missed it: with what well-regulated militia was Omar Mateen serving?
13
Here's the thing:
If you're an angry young man, and you're white, you'd probably identify with the KKK (like the Charleston shooter) or a Men's Rights group that hates women (like the Santa Barbara shooter). If you're black, you'd probably join a gang. If you're Muslim, you'd pledge yourself to ISIL.
Young men like that, young men who are angry and frustrated (and in some cases mentally ill), crave the feeling that they are powerful, important, and making some kind of a statement. The actual content of the statement isn't terribly meaningful. If there was no ISIL, he would have invented something else, or gone after gays anyway.
Angry young men are everywhere. But only in America are they handed unfettered access to the weapons of their choice.
If you're an angry young man, and you're white, you'd probably identify with the KKK (like the Charleston shooter) or a Men's Rights group that hates women (like the Santa Barbara shooter). If you're black, you'd probably join a gang. If you're Muslim, you'd pledge yourself to ISIL.
Young men like that, young men who are angry and frustrated (and in some cases mentally ill), crave the feeling that they are powerful, important, and making some kind of a statement. The actual content of the statement isn't terribly meaningful. If there was no ISIL, he would have invented something else, or gone after gays anyway.
Angry young men are everywhere. But only in America are they handed unfettered access to the weapons of their choice.
56
Well said!
1
It was heinous this act of murder. Ostensibly, following a dictum of the prophets who according to the Hadith called for the execution of homosexuals. But it is also really amazing, given that instruction from the prophet that there have been so very very few Muslims who have killed homosexuals in states where homosexuality is openly protected by law. It seems that in the consensus of the Muslim faithful there is little wish to literally follow the ancient injunction of the prophet to kill homosexuals. This indicates that this murder or execution as seen by the muslim who committed it is an outlier. It is the exception which proves the rule, namely that except in rare instances, Muslims in a modern western culture are content to live and let live rather than to go against the civil law even when the prophet has said to kill those who are homosexual.
Memo to NRA: Where were all of the "good guys with guns"? After all, Florida has some of the most liberal gun laws in the nation.
2
The Pulse nightclub was a gun-free zone. They (but not the radical Muslim shooter!) were disarmed by gun control supporters.
1
He was suspected of ties to terrorism and was sold the gun he used to kill 50 people? Something isn't working,
6
We have always lived in a broken system. http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-shooting-rampages/
Would G4S security firm bare any responsibility for this action--especially after another employee reported his alleged threats???
2
The overall headline today calls this the "worst shooting on U.S. soil."
Since we know the shooter called 911 to proclaim his allegiance to ISIS shouldn't that headline read "the worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil since 9/11?"
Since this attack was directed specifically at our gay community - a horrific declaration that this community is a very specific target of ISIS - shouldn't the headline emphasize this as well? Perhaps "the worst terrorist attack on gay people in recent history since the holocaust?"
Since we know the shooter called 911 to proclaim his allegiance to ISIS shouldn't that headline read "the worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil since 9/11?"
Since this attack was directed specifically at our gay community - a horrific declaration that this community is a very specific target of ISIS - shouldn't the headline emphasize this as well? Perhaps "the worst terrorist attack on gay people in recent history since the holocaust?"
1
the headline should read as you suggest, but the media and their master Obama are trying to protect ISIS and deflect blame from them
My parents came here from Eastern Europe. They were looking for a better life. They worked hard, learned English, studied the Constitution, and wanted to become true Americans. They were proud of voting and very proud of their citizenship.
Nowadays, few care about becoming citizens, only a green card suffices. That's a long way away from patriotism and caring about the country itself. There is no opportunity from those folks for helping reshape our country. That's just taking, not helping to make.
As a nation of citizens and voters, we should have come together to eradicate guns a long time ago. We, the individuals of this once great country, should feel ashamed that we have let it deteriorate in this way. Stand up and fight for what is right, what is civil, what is human, what is needed to make this country great again.
Rest In Peace, Orlando's victims. I cannot even imagine the horror of that night.
For whose of us who are still living, don't let big business and the NRA win, fight back, change laws, make things happen. Stop staring at your cell phones. Get something done. Otherwise, we just give lip service to our agony when another attack occurs somewhere else.
Nowadays, few care about becoming citizens, only a green card suffices. That's a long way away from patriotism and caring about the country itself. There is no opportunity from those folks for helping reshape our country. That's just taking, not helping to make.
As a nation of citizens and voters, we should have come together to eradicate guns a long time ago. We, the individuals of this once great country, should feel ashamed that we have let it deteriorate in this way. Stand up and fight for what is right, what is civil, what is human, what is needed to make this country great again.
Rest In Peace, Orlando's victims. I cannot even imagine the horror of that night.
For whose of us who are still living, don't let big business and the NRA win, fight back, change laws, make things happen. Stop staring at your cell phones. Get something done. Otherwise, we just give lip service to our agony when another attack occurs somewhere else.
2
Another day another Islamist attack re-categorized at something else. Christian conservative attack abortion clinic = hate crime, Muslim conservative attack gay club = gun violence.
Liberals' solution to this seem to be banning firearms, their convenient boogeyman, instead of dealing with the underlying issue which is mental illness brought on by exposure to religious extremism. Apparently to liberals, mental ill is not a problem if the illed do not have access to firearms even though all evidence from outside the US shows otherwise. East Asia has by far the most extreme gun laws and there is no shortage of mass knife attacks brought on by religious fanaticism. In fact, the largest scale terror attack outside of 9/11 was against Tokyo Subway with sarin gas.
Let's turn to Europe. With the exception of the last Paris attack, every attack by domestic or Islamist terrorist involves a weapon that's not a firearm. The 2011 Norway Attack for example, the domestic terrorist also exploded a car bomb. In fact, neither the two attacks on WTC nor Oklahoma City bombing involves firearms.
I find it very very hard to get through to liberals; they are just like conservatives. Conservatives points to God while liberals points to political correctness talk points. Compare the number of "recommended" of this comment to those above and below that's just standard boilerplate anti-firearm talk points.
Liberals' solution to this seem to be banning firearms, their convenient boogeyman, instead of dealing with the underlying issue which is mental illness brought on by exposure to religious extremism. Apparently to liberals, mental ill is not a problem if the illed do not have access to firearms even though all evidence from outside the US shows otherwise. East Asia has by far the most extreme gun laws and there is no shortage of mass knife attacks brought on by religious fanaticism. In fact, the largest scale terror attack outside of 9/11 was against Tokyo Subway with sarin gas.
Let's turn to Europe. With the exception of the last Paris attack, every attack by domestic or Islamist terrorist involves a weapon that's not a firearm. The 2011 Norway Attack for example, the domestic terrorist also exploded a car bomb. In fact, neither the two attacks on WTC nor Oklahoma City bombing involves firearms.
I find it very very hard to get through to liberals; they are just like conservatives. Conservatives points to God while liberals points to political correctness talk points. Compare the number of "recommended" of this comment to those above and below that's just standard boilerplate anti-firearm talk points.
5
The shooters in Orlando, Newtown, Aurora, and San Bernadino all used AR-15's. It is a weapon that is very efficient at killing large numbers of people quickly and its designer has said that it was never intended for civilian use. A knife weilder would not have killed 49 and wounded another 50, he would have been stopped. Sure, the killer could have instead used explosives, but such things are not as easy to transport and conceal or to use, and aren't as reliable as the AR-15.
No, banning the weapon won't assure that there are no mass killings, but a ban on assault weapons combined with better, universal background checks and stricter control on munitions will help. It is simply wrong to pretend that there is nothing we can do concerning weaponry that will help.
No, banning the weapon won't assure that there are no mass killings, but a ban on assault weapons combined with better, universal background checks and stricter control on munitions will help. It is simply wrong to pretend that there is nothing we can do concerning weaponry that will help.
1
As a progressive on many issues, I can state that I am fully for expanding mental healthcare including reinstating widespread mental institutions for deranged individuals. Additionally, I fully am aware of and am against medieval religious ideaologues that plagued modernity, and believe that if you want to become a part of a developed country you have to adopt our set of ethics (e.g. Equality). But this is not a single pronged approach. Only a portion of violent events are caused by religious extremism or pure mental illness. Do you think that if we allowed people to own Sarin, nuclear weapons, RPGs, cluster bombs, anti-aircraft guns, etc that there would be an uptick in attacks utilizing these methods? Of course so! So how doesn't it follow that if we regulate the distribution and ownership of firearms (which are more deadly than knives) we will have decrease crime with these deadly methods? As someone with a severely mentally ill sibling, I sure would like it if they had a background check before they bought a gun.
Your headline should say 49 people killed. Those who commit such atrocities should no longer be considered human beings, and any memory of their existence should be erased forever.
1
First of all, this was a hate crime against LGBT people. The shooters father said his son was deeply disturbed at seeing affection between same sex couples - hand holding, kissing, etc. Yes he pledged allegiance to ISIS before shooting himself, but his reason for being at the club to commit this horrendous crime was hatred of the gay community.
2
How can this and other papers refer to this as a 'mass-shooting' when it is, in fact, a terrorist attack. Is this paper so cowed by the odumma admin, which itself cannot utter the words Islamist terrorism, that it can not call it as it is?
3
Why are we spending millions on orchestrating a "watch list?"
God Bless the victims and their families.
God Bless the victims and their families.
2
As long as guns remain so readily available to just about anyone who wants to buy them we can expect more mass shootings like this one. The champagne corks are popping over at the gun manufacturers because this incident will undoubtedly fuel another surge in gun sales. I doubt we will see any movement toward the idea of gun control because if a bunch of dead elementary school children didn't bring Americans to their senses, this incident certainly won't do it either.
22
There is so much rush to link this criminal to some movement or organization. At the base of it all, he's an angry whacko. A person with a disorder choosing some movement to focus his irrational anger and justify it by associating with a group of like minded whackos. But at the end of the day, he is just a whacko, like James Holmes and all the other mass shooters, bombers, lynchers, abusers, torturers. Call it what it is. That's what all the ISIS members are too. Angry whackos with some kind of extreme disorder. By calling it anything else, we give these whackos a kind of legitimacy. So what do we do about the whackos?
1
Shocking and obviously planned to happen during Ramadan as an attack or threat to many groups: LGBT primarily but simultaneously Latinos (see the Orlando City victim list), Disney and tourist empire of Orlando, entire nightclub business nationwide will have to think hard about this, all Americans, French (via similarities to Paris attacks), even moderate Muslims/mosques which will likely face retaliatory attacks. Hard to believe those impacts were not deliberately sought. My guess is metal detector wands show up all over the place now. This is the universal response when soft targets are getting hit. That and more villagers in Iraq, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan die in the crossfire/airstrikes. More Hellfires shot from drones. NSA and CIA will ramp up surveillance on all. Harassment of mostly innocent Muslims, just to find the fanatics. A few get entrapped by rather effective FBI schemes. What to do about those we learn are about to boil over into a murderous rage? We don’t yet have a Pre-Crime system like the Tom Cruise movie. Gun sales soar. This all helps radicalize another generation of which one or two will surely commit more mass murders.
2
After two "investigations" by the FBI, I think when Mr. Mateen goes to purchase a firearm & the background check commences, that check triggers a call to the FBI who is required to "sign off" on these purchases.
I fully realize that the FBI didn't find anything wrong in it's 2013 & 2014 investigations, yet they need to 'flag' any future gun purchase so they TOO must be part of the sign-off team since THEY originally found enough concern to interview him in the first place. If this had happened, MAYBE the FBI investigators might have had some "pause" for concern to reinterview, etc.
Those are steps I'd suggest being considered moving forward.
I fully realize that the FBI didn't find anything wrong in it's 2013 & 2014 investigations, yet they need to 'flag' any future gun purchase so they TOO must be part of the sign-off team since THEY originally found enough concern to interview him in the first place. If this had happened, MAYBE the FBI investigators might have had some "pause" for concern to reinterview, etc.
Those are steps I'd suggest being considered moving forward.
4
I agree TOTALLY!! They'll make this another episode of trying to strip Americans of their 2nd ammendment rights. This man was investigated TWICE by the feds of being an affiliate of a terrorist organization, & he waa allowed to keep his gun permit. The red flags were already there. This tragedy was our governments fault. This could've been prevented. The FBI doesn't investigate people for no reason. It's not about gun control, it's about the government not taking the necessary steps to make sure people like this don't have opportunities to kill innocent people. It doesn't matter what type of weapon he had, he wasn't the only person shooting. And with 49 dead the swat team went in with guns blazing. This is why we need law abiding citizens to be able to bear arms. 3 to 4 citizens with their own weapon, it wouldn't have lasted until 5am. He knew he was going to die. That was his plan all along.
1
This headline should read, "Mentally ill person invokes Isis as a way of justifying his hatred, fear and use of an assault weapon, then murders those he hates. The religious belief of Isis is merely an excuse for violence just as it is in the middle east. A belief in God seems to be connected with violence here just as it always has been, whichever God is invoked. Require damage insurance for every gun. Make insurance companies do something useful for a change.
3
It was jarring to see commercials throughout CBS's hour on Orlando last night. A surprise. It would have been respectful and right for the tiffany network to have stayed with the real world untrinketted by the gimmicks of ads. I didn't see other channels coverage but it would lift the quality of the work to choose such occasions to let go of what comes off as crassness in a national tragedy.
2
Through his work as a security guard for G4S, Mateen had access to sophisticated surveillance software. He may have visited Pulse one or more times before yesterday and used this software to gather information. And he may have had access to the software last night, so that he knew what was happening throughout the nightclub while he terrorized it. Law enforcement needs to know whether the mobile devices used by G4S security guards to store this software were kept at work at all times or whether the devices were always in the possession of the guards. Clearly, Mateen and fellow security guards should not have access to surveillance software when they are off duty. It may not be a grand solution to mass killings, but proper control of the devices may have saved lives last night.
1
I was led to this article by the link at How They Got Their Guns where no comment section is provided. So this is a comment on the unmentionability of the weapon(s) used.
I heard Marco Rubio on NPR, approximately "We should not focus on the gun, we should focus on ISIS."
Rubio's is getting his wish. Officials and police tell us that the killer had a "long gun" as if he were carrying a Revolutionary War musket.
In countless hours of NPR repetition I never heard a straighforward statement such as: The killer purchased the following guns on June xx at Gun Store YY. The Florida laws and regulations that made this possible are as follows:
And just now I hear that an "ordinary" American (no Arabic name) has been held in California because he was carrying two or three automatic weapons and he was headed for a Gay Pride Parade.
So Rubio gets his wish - do not speak honestly about access to weapons that make mass murder rather easy.
Now I will read How They Got Their Guns.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
I heard Marco Rubio on NPR, approximately "We should not focus on the gun, we should focus on ISIS."
Rubio's is getting his wish. Officials and police tell us that the killer had a "long gun" as if he were carrying a Revolutionary War musket.
In countless hours of NPR repetition I never heard a straighforward statement such as: The killer purchased the following guns on June xx at Gun Store YY. The Florida laws and regulations that made this possible are as follows:
And just now I hear that an "ordinary" American (no Arabic name) has been held in California because he was carrying two or three automatic weapons and he was headed for a Gay Pride Parade.
So Rubio gets his wish - do not speak honestly about access to weapons that make mass murder rather easy.
Now I will read How They Got Their Guns.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
I'm a gun permitted citizen & I don't feel as if the weapon of choice is the problem either. He was investigated twice by the feds which should've been the red flags period. His permit should've been revoked! 49 victims from 2-5am? Where's his arsenal at? Assualt weapons carry what 50 rounds tops. He was shooting at the police as well. I guarantee you he himself didn't kill all 49. Swat ran in there guns blazing. I just sat & watched a video of the gunfire that transpired during their engagement while patrons were attempting to escape through a wall with the suspect. Keep trying to pinpoint the gun like that's the issue. No! The government didn't do enough & this is what happens when you sit twiddling your fingers while a two time fbi investigated suspect with overseas ties plans a massacre. It don't get any clearer than that, whar the government is about to attempt.
This was a homophob who happened to be Muslum. A guy who's brain left long ago.
I believe his comment of ISIS member is yet to be seen, but was used to cloak his horror as a desperate last minute attempt to be a martyr.
Chill until we get the facts Mr. Trump. This guy was a Natural Born Citizen, homophobic and not a tool for your hate.
I believe his comment of ISIS member is yet to be seen, but was used to cloak his horror as a desperate last minute attempt to be a martyr.
Chill until we get the facts Mr. Trump. This guy was a Natural Born Citizen, homophobic and not a tool for your hate.
“If anyone else was involved in this crime,” said Mr. Bentley, the U.S. Attorney for Central Florida, “they will be prosecuted.” Someone else was involved: the National Rifle Association. Thanks to the NRA, ours is the only western nation in which lone wolves can easily arm themselves with weapons of war to carry out massacres.
3
Yes that's it. Blame everybody but the government for NOT doing their jobs. It's the NRA's fault? Really? Last time I checked the NRA doesn't do background checks on suspected terrorists. Who did that? The Feds did & still didn't revoke this mans gun permit! Twice he was investigated & that's all the red flags they needed. He LEGALLY purchased his weapons & shouldn't have been able to had they revoked his permit due to multiple investigations. But just like the rest of the scary Americans, you're ok with getting your 2nd ammendment rights taken while the same guns you don't want citizens to have, the criminals constantly get them regardless. How will you protect yourself? Call the police? If you're able to get to a phone, I'm sure you'll be dead by the time police arrive. But hey that's the right thing to do huh? Smh
1
Why did GS4 continue to employ someone who had twice been investigated by the FBI for terrorist links and violent extremist beliefs?
3
Where are the candidates, why aren't they in Orlando?
What...not a big enough photo op?
What...not a big enough photo op?
1
We can keep pussyfooting around the facts by talking about gun laws and which polictician is responsible for this and that, until people finally understand that being gay is directly against the tenents of this man's 'faith'.
The tendency of the left, continually bending themselves backwards to avoid naming the obvious, are not going to change that, nor make the problem go away.
The tendency of the left, continually bending themselves backwards to avoid naming the obvious, are not going to change that, nor make the problem go away.
3
But, why would anyone even consider purchasing a gun in the first place? Could that urge to arm oneself not be a sign of mental instability in its own right?
Why would anyone want to have possession of a weapon of mass destruction unless that person is, in some measure, psychologically damaged?
Could the argument be, also, made that maybe, just maybe, that the American presence and occupation in Muslim countries has so inflamed and fatally skewed the psychic dialogue of comity and tolerance that the foreign intervention of belligerent and christian conservative "forces" should be withdrawn immediately and completely, so as to facilitate the healing of the Islamic hatred of all things Western?
Why would anyone want to have possession of a weapon of mass destruction unless that person is, in some measure, psychologically damaged?
Could the argument be, also, made that maybe, just maybe, that the American presence and occupation in Muslim countries has so inflamed and fatally skewed the psychic dialogue of comity and tolerance that the foreign intervention of belligerent and christian conservative "forces" should be withdrawn immediately and completely, so as to facilitate the healing of the Islamic hatred of all things Western?
2
You can't live in America & be asking that question! So I'm mentally unstable because I own the same assault rifles as the criminals? No I call that matching his fire power. You stay gunless while these criminals & extremists continue to gather their arsenal. They'll shoot you while you're praying. They have no remourse for you or your religion. But you think a gunless society will make you safer than you'll be one the first victims. They're making sure you all are so frightened you'll give up your rights. You're falling for it as we speak.
The gunman was originally from New York. I'd like to know when was the last time the gunman had contact with Donald Trump? How long was the gunman tutored in his twisted ideology by Donald Trump? How long before the shooting was Donald aware that the gunman was going to commit such terrorism? Donald admits to partying with other terrorists after 9/11. How long has Donald Trump been hiding his intense homophobia? Surely Donald Trump was aware that his relationship with the gunman would become common knowledge. And if you have read this far, one more completely unsubstantiated inuendo... I'm not say any of the above has any basis in reality, but then again, if Donald Trump is willing to show such a lack of character to use similar statements against his political foes, why shouldn't he receive the same treatment. Only a man with a complete lack of honor would behave the way he does. He can only bring dishonor to the role of the presidency and to the nation itself.
3
For those who are wondering how an ISIS sympathizer on an FBI terror watch list was able to get a gun, look no further than your ISIS-friendly Republican senators: "A measure to prevent people on a terrorist watch list from getting guns failed to get support on the Senate floor Thursday, as did a Republican amendment that would have guaranteed those on the watch list due process from federal agencies before being denied the right to buy a gun."
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/us/politics/congress-shifts-attention-...
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/us/politics/congress-shifts-attention-...
9
I ran out of room to say in my earlier comment that anyone who has been investigated for ties to radical religious groups by the FBI should be prevented from legally purchasing weapons. The fact that such "people" have been investigated for ties to terrorism should be documented and available through a criminal background check. That would be one way to curb this madness, until Donald Trump becomes President and puts a stop to this nonsense!
1
SWHC is up 6% and has already hit double the average daily volume of purchases as of 10:45 a.m.
Likewise, RGR is up about 10% and shows double the average daily volume of trades as of 10:45 a.m.
So, the more the liberals talk about gun control, the more people buy guns and shares of gun manufacturers.
Way to go, Progressives.
Likewise, RGR is up about 10% and shows double the average daily volume of trades as of 10:45 a.m.
So, the more the liberals talk about gun control, the more people buy guns and shares of gun manufacturers.
Way to go, Progressives.
2
Reading through these comments it is becoming increasingly clear that "progressives" are more of a danger to American freedoms and values than ISIS could ever hope to be.
2
Honestly it does not matter much why he did it. Everyone of those 49 individuals is just as dead, whether it was because he didn't like gay people, or because he was a jihadi, or both, or neither. So, the why doesn't matter as much as the HOW. How did he do it? He took advantage of our nearly non-existent gun control laws to commit mass murder with an assault weapon. Ban assault weapons. Ban people under FBI surveillance for terrorism from buying guns.
8
Ban assualt rifles? Do you realize the criminals will STILL have these weapons you don't want law abiding citizens to have? How can u defend yourself against an assault rifle with a hand gun? Why do you think swat had to be called in the first place? Cause the first responders couldn't match his firepower. It's not the assualt weapons fault, it's the governments fault for not revoking his gun permit once he was investigated TWICE for terrorists ties. We as citizens have the right to defend ourselves instead of waiting on a police response that could ultimately cost you your life!
1
I imagine that one thing the President will not miss next year is giving another statement after another mass shooting, consoling another group of families all the while knowing that common sense gun regulation legislation supported by 97% of Americans could have prevented these deaths and the inevitable next mass shooting.
3
This monstrous act adds to our monstrous statistics of over 10.000 gun murders per year, over 500 accidental gun deaths per year, and over 30,000 gun deaths of all types per year. Our gun death rate is off the charts compared with other industrialized nations.
1
I wish the press would quit telling these creeps that this was the most successful slaughter so far, and if you want to be noticed, you'll have to plan to do even better.
19
Given that the NRA and the pervasive influence of the gun lobby is what it is throughout our government in the year 2016, I think a good question is what sort of killing tools will be available to the public in the future? Technology most certainly will improve upon personal WMDs and the ammunition. Given that the NRA and the gun lobby are not overly concerned about the average American's safety in public places, preferring to see a Wild West-style shootout occur between "good guys with guns" and "bad guys" ( most likely " terrorists" who gladly adopt the ISIS tag, whether or not they are affiliated in reality) it leaves me wondering if in the future any public gathering of any type will be possible?
It seems that the 2nd Amendment will eventually rule supreme over all other freedoms.
It seems that the 2nd Amendment will eventually rule supreme over all other freedoms.
3
Until tougher gun laws are passed making ownership of assault weapons and similar weapons illegal, deranged "lone wolfs" will continue to shoot their way to fame for their deeds. If the government can control who gets on airplanes then the government should be able to control who buys and owns guns in the US!
What we need is a Congress with enough backbone to disregard the NRA's political threats and vote tougher gun laws to protect Americans from NRA promoted slaughter.
What we need is a Congress with enough backbone to disregard the NRA's political threats and vote tougher gun laws to protect Americans from NRA promoted slaughter.
4