I agree that people, even white Europeans, should be allowed to maintain their cultures. Having researched Nazi Germany for the book The Doubled Life of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, I find it ironic that Hitler wished the Ottomans had pushed into Germany and established Islam, as he found it more compatible with the warrior ethic of National Socialism than Christianity. Now the far right nationalists may be the group keeping Islam out. It's also true, as one responder said, that a corporatist, globalized worldview would like to divide the world into equal spatial segments, striped of regional identity yet ostensibly allowing all cultures (really none) everywhere. When my son's friend, returned from Kuwait, waxed enthusiastically last night about the giant mall in Kuwait with PF Changs, Cheesecake Factory, and three Louis Vuitton stores, I was horrified. Is this the future we want? I don't. Let's fight for cultural distinctives and a sense of place. Otherwise we are all just widgets. I say this as a progressive.
20
So now even culture is evil? What next, cognition? Will nothing short of living in trees and eating only raw tubers meet some people's definition of unbiased behavior?
23
A similar article could be written about who is Japanese in Japan.
My German ancestors on my Mother's side came into NYC in 1710 and on my Father's side came into Philadelphia in 1749. The Pennsylvania Germans did not integrate very well and alarmed Benjamin Franklin, among other English origin folks, because of their clannishness. I was surprised to learn that the German language was almost still official in many areas of Pennsylvania until well after WWI.
So is a Turkish family, citizens of Germany yet following Turkish customs, a German family? Of course. Are they Germans as most folks would view the lederhosen wearing German of old? Nein!
My German ancestors on my Mother's side came into NYC in 1710 and on my Father's side came into Philadelphia in 1749. The Pennsylvania Germans did not integrate very well and alarmed Benjamin Franklin, among other English origin folks, because of their clannishness. I was surprised to learn that the German language was almost still official in many areas of Pennsylvania until well after WWI.
So is a Turkish family, citizens of Germany yet following Turkish customs, a German family? Of course. Are they Germans as most folks would view the lederhosen wearing German of old? Nein!
4
I used to live in Germany and due to my job spent a good portion of it traveling & interacting with local people in Baden-Württemberg, Bavaria, Rheinland-Pfalz & Hesse. Not all of Germany, but a good slice.
Religion is a false issue. Germans are among the least church going people in the world. Sunday is a day of rest & relaxation, family & food more than anything else. Those who do practice are more likely Catholic in some places and more likely Lutheran in others. Any person positing faith as a matter of German identity is being less than honest. If there is a religion in Germany it is Football (Soccer).
Germans (excepting Swabians) share a largely common language that is very precise. They share a commitment to family, community, tolerance and order. They value education and local traditions that vary around the country. Being respectful of others & folkways always seemed to be very important.
There are already many Islamic people in Germany. Many Turks and others that came due to worker shortages have lived in the country for generations and most have assimilated into the communities where they live. I do not recall problems between ethnic Germans & Turkish neighbors for the most part.
The problem with the invasion by these illegal economic migrants is that they broke the rules from jump street by coming illegally. Most are not refugees of violence as much as economic migrants. If they ghettoize themselves and do not assimilate quickly there will be trouble.
Religion is a false issue. Germans are among the least church going people in the world. Sunday is a day of rest & relaxation, family & food more than anything else. Those who do practice are more likely Catholic in some places and more likely Lutheran in others. Any person positing faith as a matter of German identity is being less than honest. If there is a religion in Germany it is Football (Soccer).
Germans (excepting Swabians) share a largely common language that is very precise. They share a commitment to family, community, tolerance and order. They value education and local traditions that vary around the country. Being respectful of others & folkways always seemed to be very important.
There are already many Islamic people in Germany. Many Turks and others that came due to worker shortages have lived in the country for generations and most have assimilated into the communities where they live. I do not recall problems between ethnic Germans & Turkish neighbors for the most part.
The problem with the invasion by these illegal economic migrants is that they broke the rules from jump street by coming illegally. Most are not refugees of violence as much as economic migrants. If they ghettoize themselves and do not assimilate quickly there will be trouble.
34
Instead of 1.1 million immigrants, what if the number were 10 million, or 100 million immigrants. would this assessment of 'nativism' still hold up?
The war in Syria caused a refugee crisis in the EU as desperate people sought the most basic need of all; a safe place to live.
The West, especially the US (but also Russia), bears responsibility for destabilizing the region, but it is pure fantasy to ignore the fact that there are literally billions of people whom given the choice, wouldn't like to partake of Germany's newly challenged hospitality.
The economic rules of the world that apportion a life of relative plenty in the 1st world, and desperation in the 3rd world, is what's driving the desire for 'economic migration'.
The truth is, the system can't hold. Either people will migrate to average out incomes, or the system of redistribution of wealth will collapse and something more equitable will take its place.
Arguments for and against immigration, should not be reduced to simplistic aspersions of bigotry on the one hand, and civilized empathy on the other.
Population and resources are what is lurking at the bottom of this phenomena. That's the first fact that needs to be faced, before any solutions can be proposed.
The war in Syria caused a refugee crisis in the EU as desperate people sought the most basic need of all; a safe place to live.
The West, especially the US (but also Russia), bears responsibility for destabilizing the region, but it is pure fantasy to ignore the fact that there are literally billions of people whom given the choice, wouldn't like to partake of Germany's newly challenged hospitality.
The economic rules of the world that apportion a life of relative plenty in the 1st world, and desperation in the 3rd world, is what's driving the desire for 'economic migration'.
The truth is, the system can't hold. Either people will migrate to average out incomes, or the system of redistribution of wealth will collapse and something more equitable will take its place.
Arguments for and against immigration, should not be reduced to simplistic aspersions of bigotry on the one hand, and civilized empathy on the other.
Population and resources are what is lurking at the bottom of this phenomena. That's the first fact that needs to be faced, before any solutions can be proposed.
23
"But Germany can help them understand the laws protecting women's rights - and reinforce them."
That last bit should be changed to "and ENFORCE them" (emphasis added) - b/c the prevailing attitude of the judges - like that of Ms. Sauerbrey - is that, "it's not the defendants' fault." [see Ms. Sauerbrey's NYT column post-Köln, asking "How have we failed the refugees?"]
That last bit should be changed to "and ENFORCE them" (emphasis added) - b/c the prevailing attitude of the judges - like that of Ms. Sauerbrey - is that, "it's not the defendants' fault." [see Ms. Sauerbrey's NYT column post-Köln, asking "How have we failed the refugees?"]
34
A nice illustration of 'what is German' occurred very recently. The AfD recently raised a ruckus about new packaging for Kinder chocolates featuring children's portraits: they protested that black children were also included, pointing to this as an example of political correctness running amock. To the AfD 's embarrassment, it turned out that the images were childhood photos of members of the German national football team.
15
In a hundred years, the Grand Mufti of Germany, Ayotullah Helmut il Berlini will issue a fatwa that consuming halal schnitzel is kosher during Oktoberfest in keeping with German tradition.
17
Ms. Sauerbrey rhetorical strategy is to use the xenophobia and excessive nationalism of parts of the AfD as a straw man to implicitly discredit positions against unchecked immigration; positions that are considered perfectly normal outside of Germany. Instead of engaging with the view of the majority in Germany that is skeptical of Merkel’s policies, she focuses on those few that espouse a “culturalism” as a form of “a new racism”. That’s how she manages to argue for her unclear conclusion of the nation as a seemingly unlimited community without having to engage the real arguments.
In contrast to Ms. Sauerbrey, I’m of the opinion that different cultures can and ought to be ranked – I hold that the culture of a liberal democracy that respects Women’s rights is superior to the culture in a monarchy like Saudi Arabia whose average citizen practices a very fundamentalist interpretation of Islam. Of course, Syria is not Saudi Arabia, but it surely is not the Netherlands either: Research by R. Koopmans shows that fundamentalism is widespread among Sunni Muslims in Europe (and why should Syrian Sunnis be different?) and the Pew Research Center’s survey on values in the Muslim world give me pause. I don’t want to restrict who immigrates to Germany based on race or other essentialist ideas, but I think it’s perfectly legitimate to restrict unchecked mass immigration of people whose values are probably not compatible with Western values.
In contrast to Ms. Sauerbrey, I’m of the opinion that different cultures can and ought to be ranked – I hold that the culture of a liberal democracy that respects Women’s rights is superior to the culture in a monarchy like Saudi Arabia whose average citizen practices a very fundamentalist interpretation of Islam. Of course, Syria is not Saudi Arabia, but it surely is not the Netherlands either: Research by R. Koopmans shows that fundamentalism is widespread among Sunni Muslims in Europe (and why should Syrian Sunnis be different?) and the Pew Research Center’s survey on values in the Muslim world give me pause. I don’t want to restrict who immigrates to Germany based on race or other essentialist ideas, but I think it’s perfectly legitimate to restrict unchecked mass immigration of people whose values are probably not compatible with Western values.
87
The question of immigration is plaguing all the Western countries. Germany has been far more accepting until recently than have we in America. But it is not unreasonable for people in any of the Western countries to feel anxiety over how their comfortable society may change as the result of an influx of immigrants from very different societies.
There is, of course, a spectrum of that anxiety ranging from mild hesitancy to xenophobia (much of which is apparent in Hungary, Poland, and even in the U.S., where we have the least real cause for concern), and it would help for there to be firm rules to be put in place and carried out to enable the new members of these Western societies to learn the host countries' languages, learn some of the history and, above all, understand the mores and culture, while allowing reasonable freedom of religious expression to exist among the newcomers. Would be wise as well to keep the number of newcomers to only a number that may be assimilated successfully and, if housing is to be provided, the housing should be spread throughout the host country to try to prevent the ghettos that now exist in France and Belgium.
But these suggestions assume that governments act in reasonable, objective ways, which is much more than I have any right to suppose.
There is, of course, a spectrum of that anxiety ranging from mild hesitancy to xenophobia (much of which is apparent in Hungary, Poland, and even in the U.S., where we have the least real cause for concern), and it would help for there to be firm rules to be put in place and carried out to enable the new members of these Western societies to learn the host countries' languages, learn some of the history and, above all, understand the mores and culture, while allowing reasonable freedom of religious expression to exist among the newcomers. Would be wise as well to keep the number of newcomers to only a number that may be assimilated successfully and, if housing is to be provided, the housing should be spread throughout the host country to try to prevent the ghettos that now exist in France and Belgium.
But these suggestions assume that governments act in reasonable, objective ways, which is much more than I have any right to suppose.
21
"the extremists have already taken control"
But many would say the author is herself an extremist (leftist). It's little different from playground name calling. Can the author provide objective reasoning for why the "extremists" are extreme? Shouldn't there be objective criteria for deciding what is correct and what is "extreme"?
I've attempted to deal with this question, including consideration of the mass migration issue, here:
http://tarkmarg.blogspot.com/2016/04/howto-tell-youre-zombie.html
"[a nation is] a community including those who were born here, those who came to stay and those who will stay for a while and then return to their homes. "
So little more than a hotel or public park. No sense of shared values or destiny etc.
Its no wonder that such malaise afflicts the West if this is the kind of thinking prevalent amongst the ruling establishment.
http://tarkmarg.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-rise-and-decline-of-west-why-an...
But many would say the author is herself an extremist (leftist). It's little different from playground name calling. Can the author provide objective reasoning for why the "extremists" are extreme? Shouldn't there be objective criteria for deciding what is correct and what is "extreme"?
I've attempted to deal with this question, including consideration of the mass migration issue, here:
http://tarkmarg.blogspot.com/2016/04/howto-tell-youre-zombie.html
"[a nation is] a community including those who were born here, those who came to stay and those who will stay for a while and then return to their homes. "
So little more than a hotel or public park. No sense of shared values or destiny etc.
Its no wonder that such malaise afflicts the West if this is the kind of thinking prevalent amongst the ruling establishment.
http://tarkmarg.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-rise-and-decline-of-west-why-an...
16
I taught in Germany for a decade, I was fully acculturated and spoke accent-free German fluently. I could quote Goethe, I was deeply versed in German letters, and was certified to give the Aibtur, or German entrance exams.
At the same time, hundreds of thousands of Russians poured into Germany and could immediately claim their German citizenship if they could prove they possessed at least a tenth of German "blood" in their ancestry. They couldn't speak a word of German and knew virtually nothing of German history, nonetheless they could, with a certificate, instantly become "German".
How does this fit into Frau Sauerbrey's reflections here? In spite of my deep knowledge of all things German, for Germans I was still the "Auslander", the foreigner. For me being "German" means affirming your deep appreciation and understanding of the richness of German culture through your actions, through your deep immersion in German society. Being German has little to do with "blood" (or biology), neither has it to do with "achievement", as Frau Sauerbrey would like to believe, but rather through a strong affirmation of the fundamental values that make up a community and its culture.
At the same time, hundreds of thousands of Russians poured into Germany and could immediately claim their German citizenship if they could prove they possessed at least a tenth of German "blood" in their ancestry. They couldn't speak a word of German and knew virtually nothing of German history, nonetheless they could, with a certificate, instantly become "German".
How does this fit into Frau Sauerbrey's reflections here? In spite of my deep knowledge of all things German, for Germans I was still the "Auslander", the foreigner. For me being "German" means affirming your deep appreciation and understanding of the richness of German culture through your actions, through your deep immersion in German society. Being German has little to do with "blood" (or biology), neither has it to do with "achievement", as Frau Sauerbrey would like to believe, but rather through a strong affirmation of the fundamental values that make up a community and its culture.
10
In the long run, demographics is destiny. The culture that emerges everywhere will be the "mainstream" culture, based on numbers. You can't stop the tide. It's been tried.
8
What is German or French or American is not the question.
Do you believe that women have the same civil rights, legal rights and freedoms as men? People who are gay or transgender?
Do you believe in the separation of church and state?
Do you believe in freedom of speech?
Those are the real questions to ask the 1.1 million Muslim migrants looking to live in Europe and the U.S.
Compassion and inclusion do not include cultural suicide or subjugating the rights and freedoms of native citizens.
Do you believe that women have the same civil rights, legal rights and freedoms as men? People who are gay or transgender?
Do you believe in the separation of church and state?
Do you believe in freedom of speech?
Those are the real questions to ask the 1.1 million Muslim migrants looking to live in Europe and the U.S.
Compassion and inclusion do not include cultural suicide or subjugating the rights and freedoms of native citizens.
44
It's ironic when pundits bemoan the rise of the Euro far right by doubling down on the contrived PC nonsense that brought it about in the first place! The liberal European notion that community and culture should not exist for Europeans of European descent (or should be redefined to denote simply 'inclusion') is being soundly rejected across the continent. Is it any surprise? Immigrants themselves certainly don't embrace it when they arrive, and a German immigrating to Baluchistan or Somalia would find that community ties and cultural affinity still matter a great deal there. But by spending the last decade silencing opposing viewpoints by labeling them bigoted or backward or small rather than engaging in open debate, the European political and media elite have ensured that the only functioning vehicle for a very natural, relatable, and majoritarian set of human anxieties are far right loony toons. Scary!
31
Yeah we get it. Muslim tribalism good. Any other form of tribalism bad.
45
it is strange that for all the new right to identity western liberals champion, such as the right to define and express one's own gender identity, sexual identity, minority ethnic identity, etc., there is no right for the majority to define its own cultural identity. That is considered impossible, and illegitimate anyway.
And what about the right of everyone to a secure and stable home, both individual and collective, family home and homeland, where you are free to express your identity freely and live according to your preferences, and free to close the door to anyone but those whom you choose to invite in be cause they respect and appreciate your way of life? Where you can live secure in the knowledge that you are protected from others deciding that they like your home better than their own, forcing their way in, rearranging the furniture and taking over?
And what about the right of everyone to a secure and stable home, both individual and collective, family home and homeland, where you are free to express your identity freely and live according to your preferences, and free to close the door to anyone but those whom you choose to invite in be cause they respect and appreciate your way of life? Where you can live secure in the knowledge that you are protected from others deciding that they like your home better than their own, forcing their way in, rearranging the furniture and taking over?
27
"For many liberals and centrist conservatives, culture is defined as the ways a person or group does things."
Really? That is as ludicrous a definition of culture as I've ever heard
The Germanic peoples have a long and eventful history that is characterized by exactly the words of the program of the Alternative for Germany- " “our occidental and Christian culture, our nation’s historical and cultural identity, and an independent German nation of the German people.”
Their conclusions are etrocious but their premise is correct.
Really? That is as ludicrous a definition of culture as I've ever heard
The Germanic peoples have a long and eventful history that is characterized by exactly the words of the program of the Alternative for Germany- " “our occidental and Christian culture, our nation’s historical and cultural identity, and an independent German nation of the German people.”
Their conclusions are etrocious but their premise is correct.
5
",,, community defined by ... rule of law...". What about Shariah Law for the new minority and German Law for everybody else?
6
Isn't it ironic that a conservative Muslim would define culture from their perspective as does Alternative for Germany? Both cultures need to give some and compromise. We should not put religion and faith above culture and identity.
2
When in Rome, do as the Romans. This from a political state that integrated the original barbarians at the gate (tho not rapidly or without strife). An age old adage about fitting in because it smooths things along and is to your benefit.
Multi culturalism is one thing but to benefit as an immigrant there has to be effort to fit into a seriously complex German culture. This is not easy. If I were a Muslim serious about staying, I would be singing in a Lutheran choir asap. No need to convert. Find a niche. Vegan teetotalers exist. Learn German. These immigrants are in shock but German structure could be seen as a crutch to stabilization even as they miss their own cultures and old lives. No one likes change, on either anthropological side.
Multi culturalism is one thing but to benefit as an immigrant there has to be effort to fit into a seriously complex German culture. This is not easy. If I were a Muslim serious about staying, I would be singing in a Lutheran choir asap. No need to convert. Find a niche. Vegan teetotalers exist. Learn German. These immigrants are in shock but German structure could be seen as a crutch to stabilization even as they miss their own cultures and old lives. No one likes change, on either anthropological side.
13
The author is Dismissing real concerns that Germans rightfully have about the impact on their culture and society of the influx of hundreds of thousands of immigrants who view the host culture that makes it a safe place for immigrants as something to be disdained and destroyed. What is German? Let me see. Maybe it's being a woman and being free to go out in public without a posse to protect you? Maybe it's not being told you should stay X number of meters away from men or always travel with a male escort? Maybe it's speaking your mind and not be accused of being a racist? Maybe it's not being lectured on how tolerance is important by people whose intolerance is on display daily. Maybe it is saying my culture is worthy of respect and if you aren't interested in respecting it you can leave.
People who dismiss reasonable concerns about the erosion of a woman's right to personal freedom or the right to celebrate ones own culture or how Germans can afford to shoulder a massive burden of nonGerman speakers who cannot work but need food, housing and health care just for starters, all paid for by the taxpayers, are the ones causing the swing to the right. People with concerns are dismissed and demeaned so they search out politicians appear to be listening.
Interesting, Muslims are free to bash, trash and attack a host county's culture but the hosts are not permitted to respond even in the most polite ways. They are just expected keep writing the checks.
People who dismiss reasonable concerns about the erosion of a woman's right to personal freedom or the right to celebrate ones own culture or how Germans can afford to shoulder a massive burden of nonGerman speakers who cannot work but need food, housing and health care just for starters, all paid for by the taxpayers, are the ones causing the swing to the right. People with concerns are dismissed and demeaned so they search out politicians appear to be listening.
Interesting, Muslims are free to bash, trash and attack a host county's culture but the hosts are not permitted to respond even in the most polite ways. They are just expected keep writing the checks.
51
I just fell in love with Munich, please don't make it look like Paris.
8
This puts me in mind of a German woman with whom I worked years ago. She had fled Germany after working on left-leaning causes and said that the two Germanys should never be reunited for to do so would give them more power which is always dangerous with Germans. And, voila, here we are.
1
In what's commonly known as Central Europe, encompassing Germany and some of the neighbouring national states there exists a genetic pool which, besides neighbouring nations contains about 80 millions of German-speakers. Bare facts, dear Frau Sauerbrey, ought to have you to have noticed that Germany is named after those German people, it's not the German people that were named after some country with ever-changing borders. There used to be a time when The "German Catholics Convention Day (Deutscher Katholikentag)" could take place in Luxemburg or in Vienna under the acclaim of the local people. My Viennese grandmother, born in the then still Hungarian Burgenland, looked upon herself as a German, even the German-speakers of the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy had been officially subsumed under the name of Germans. The Germany of today has accepted and integrated millions of foreign and German refugees and work immigrants.
The question "What is German?" is very complex and almost impossible to answer. This of course applies to any country. Maybe it's better to ask a different question: "What isn't German?" What isn't German is when I walk along the main shopping streets in the city where I live or in any other city for that matter and for minutes at a time don't hear a word of German. And I don't mean tourists either. When a sizable proportion of the women wear headscarves alongside their bearded men. When you go into certain areas where Germans are only a minority and stores cater almost exclusively to those ethnic groups that have moved in. When you're hard put to find a restaurant that offers German fare. When mosques are being built almost everywhere (btw, how many churches are there in Saudi Arabia?). I could go on and on. There are certain ethnic groups that come here and assimilate willingly and become an integral part of German society and are made to feel welcome here. And that is the way it should be. However, there are others who come here to reap the benefits of what German society has to offer but who do not and will not assimilate and contribute. I believe that if you decide to settle in a new country you have to adapt to it, adopt its values and respect its laws. If not, you should seriously consider moving back to where you came from because every country has the right to preserve its national identity and culture and defend it against those who want to dilute it.
15
The so called „Schnitzel law” – I never heard about it – seems to be a result of the “Danish meatball war” started by “Densk Folkparti” in Denmark. They succeeded in Randers. NYTimes has told the story here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/21/world/europe/randers-denmark-
Obviously right-wing people in Schleswig Holstein as closest neighbour to Denmark had the idea “Oh, our good friends in Denmark got lucky with that, now let´s try this here” but they failed in Germany.
This proves again the intensity of connections between Right-Wing organisations in the world:
- Pegida is always carrying Russian Flags. They like Mr Putin ways and there are no resentments towards Russians anymore,
- Lot´s of AfD commentators (“a lot helps a lot”) fill German comment section with statements like “If I were American I would vote for Trump, he is the man”.
- NYTimes comment sections show slightly shortened AfD-content I already know from Germany when it comes to certain issues. It´s like shaking hands of “old acquaintances”.
They openly help each other. Nationalists in Europe and USA are cooperating much better than intellectuals. They forged a “Rechte Internationale” already.
"German Leitkultur" and "Make America great again" - for right wing this seems not to be a contradiction anymore. It´s a "That´s exactly what we both are talking about" - issue.
In present Western intellectuals are referring too much on obsolescent national clichés. Doing this they are giving their game away.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/21/world/europe/randers-denmark-
Obviously right-wing people in Schleswig Holstein as closest neighbour to Denmark had the idea “Oh, our good friends in Denmark got lucky with that, now let´s try this here” but they failed in Germany.
This proves again the intensity of connections between Right-Wing organisations in the world:
- Pegida is always carrying Russian Flags. They like Mr Putin ways and there are no resentments towards Russians anymore,
- Lot´s of AfD commentators (“a lot helps a lot”) fill German comment section with statements like “If I were American I would vote for Trump, he is the man”.
- NYTimes comment sections show slightly shortened AfD-content I already know from Germany when it comes to certain issues. It´s like shaking hands of “old acquaintances”.
They openly help each other. Nationalists in Europe and USA are cooperating much better than intellectuals. They forged a “Rechte Internationale” already.
"German Leitkultur" and "Make America great again" - for right wing this seems not to be a contradiction anymore. It´s a "That´s exactly what we both are talking about" - issue.
In present Western intellectuals are referring too much on obsolescent national clichés. Doing this they are giving their game away.
What is culture anyway? Culture is a deep, persistent pattern of shared beliefs about what is real and what has value. OK.
But culture can be tricky. First of all, its potent force in our lives operates well below conscious scrutiny; in other words, its first and most important task is to render most things invisible to us. Like the culture itself.
It gets learned (more like imprinted) at such an early age that its influence on how we see the world can't really be detected. It feels like its our "nature", it is a priori, more like birth into a tribe, or even, well, like something in the blood.
For example earlier in the 20th century Stalin feared the hundreds of thousands of ethnic Germans who had moved east in the militarised Prussian colonization of Poland and the Ukraine. Stranded there, they found themselves the helpless object of Stalin's attention. Deported en masse to central Asia and systematically "de-Germanised" by the Soviets for a full two generations, these "blood" Germans were welcomed back into the fold at home in the early 90s with passports, social benefits, and VOTING CARDS though they spoke little to no German and knew nothing of the culture.
So what was the difference? Apparently it was the unexamined belief that this Leitkultur was somehow an innate quality, a mystical capacity or resonance (or something?) that this group possessed.
Hmm. Is there such a thing and do Europeans have it? Piffle. Culture can and IS learned. It's not genetic.
But culture can be tricky. First of all, its potent force in our lives operates well below conscious scrutiny; in other words, its first and most important task is to render most things invisible to us. Like the culture itself.
It gets learned (more like imprinted) at such an early age that its influence on how we see the world can't really be detected. It feels like its our "nature", it is a priori, more like birth into a tribe, or even, well, like something in the blood.
For example earlier in the 20th century Stalin feared the hundreds of thousands of ethnic Germans who had moved east in the militarised Prussian colonization of Poland and the Ukraine. Stranded there, they found themselves the helpless object of Stalin's attention. Deported en masse to central Asia and systematically "de-Germanised" by the Soviets for a full two generations, these "blood" Germans were welcomed back into the fold at home in the early 90s with passports, social benefits, and VOTING CARDS though they spoke little to no German and knew nothing of the culture.
So what was the difference? Apparently it was the unexamined belief that this Leitkultur was somehow an innate quality, a mystical capacity or resonance (or something?) that this group possessed.
Hmm. Is there such a thing and do Europeans have it? Piffle. Culture can and IS learned. It's not genetic.
1
I believe the discussion about cultural identity is futile in itself, because culture will
A) always be a very personal, subjective experience.
B) always be in flux.
C) always be narrower and at the same time wider than any attempt of definition could describe.
A) I am German. There is no doubt about it. Anybody can determine that in a 15 minute conversation with me. But, do I love Wagner, the most German composer there is, do I love Goethe?
No, I love Russian composers, Italian opera and Shakespeare.
I lived a very long time in Norway and was a foreign exchange student in Western New York. Do I feel closer to Scandinavians and Americans than I do to Bavarians and Saxons. Absolutely!
Never felt I more at home in any European city, than the morning I rode a subway car filled with "fellow" Western New Yorkers on the way to see the Bills play the Jaguars in Wembley Stadium last year.
B) Can anyone remember a time, when there wasn't a kebab shop in every town in Germany? Has anyone in our country not been to a "Pizzaria"? I am not just talking about food! Music, Art, Architecture and Literature are globally experienced and every "culture" contributes.
C) I am raised in Westfalen. A region in the deep west of Germany. We are very, very different from the people from the Rhineland part of our state. At the same time a very diverse group of German soccer players, with and without immigrant background, won the 2014 World Cup defining and re-defining what "German" is!
A) always be a very personal, subjective experience.
B) always be in flux.
C) always be narrower and at the same time wider than any attempt of definition could describe.
A) I am German. There is no doubt about it. Anybody can determine that in a 15 minute conversation with me. But, do I love Wagner, the most German composer there is, do I love Goethe?
No, I love Russian composers, Italian opera and Shakespeare.
I lived a very long time in Norway and was a foreign exchange student in Western New York. Do I feel closer to Scandinavians and Americans than I do to Bavarians and Saxons. Absolutely!
Never felt I more at home in any European city, than the morning I rode a subway car filled with "fellow" Western New Yorkers on the way to see the Bills play the Jaguars in Wembley Stadium last year.
B) Can anyone remember a time, when there wasn't a kebab shop in every town in Germany? Has anyone in our country not been to a "Pizzaria"? I am not just talking about food! Music, Art, Architecture and Literature are globally experienced and every "culture" contributes.
C) I am raised in Westfalen. A region in the deep west of Germany. We are very, very different from the people from the Rhineland part of our state. At the same time a very diverse group of German soccer players, with and without immigrant background, won the 2014 World Cup defining and re-defining what "German" is!
5
I think this article misrepresents the reality and complexity of the situation created by the mass migration of refuges to Europe, and Germany in particular.
I’m Canadian, now living in Germany, and in my view, the AfD are implicitly xenophobic and I would never ever vote for them. However, just because AfD has xenophobic DNA, it doesn’t mean they are automatically wrong about everything and that “centrists” are automatically right.
How much contact has the author had with refugees in Germany and the areas where they now reside? She seems to totally ignore the very real challenges of providing for so many refugees and integrating them as members of society. Absorbing over 1 million refugees can stress the social fabric and cause real long-lasting impacts, especially depending on the local and national governments’ policies and actions.
To the editors: have authors include links to provocative quotations. I could not could not find “Germany’s cultural foundation is being smashed by immigration” in AfD’s BW platform. I find AfD’s underlying xenophobic motivation revolting but there is no need to misrepresent them (apologies if I missed it).
Finally, instead of belittling the very real and significant challenges caused by the mass migration of refugees that AfD are using to their political advantage, supporters of immigration and integration should respond with better solutions and prove its benefits to the “Volk”. It definitely won’t magically happen by itself.
I’m Canadian, now living in Germany, and in my view, the AfD are implicitly xenophobic and I would never ever vote for them. However, just because AfD has xenophobic DNA, it doesn’t mean they are automatically wrong about everything and that “centrists” are automatically right.
How much contact has the author had with refugees in Germany and the areas where they now reside? She seems to totally ignore the very real challenges of providing for so many refugees and integrating them as members of society. Absorbing over 1 million refugees can stress the social fabric and cause real long-lasting impacts, especially depending on the local and national governments’ policies and actions.
To the editors: have authors include links to provocative quotations. I could not could not find “Germany’s cultural foundation is being smashed by immigration” in AfD’s BW platform. I find AfD’s underlying xenophobic motivation revolting but there is no need to misrepresent them (apologies if I missed it).
Finally, instead of belittling the very real and significant challenges caused by the mass migration of refugees that AfD are using to their political advantage, supporters of immigration and integration should respond with better solutions and prove its benefits to the “Volk”. It definitely won’t magically happen by itself.
4
Surely in a democracy the people are sovereign. In any functioning democracy the people will have to be allowed to determine what defines their society. It is precisely the denial of fundamental democratic rights that has led to very substantial shifts in the polls all over Europe. In Austria the nationalist right just reached a new high-water mark, with their candidate for presidential elections obtaining 49.7% of the vote.
As current trends are just about guaranteed to intensify with continuing migration, I suspect there won't be a single left -of- centre government in Europe in a few years. Ms Sauerbrey should start looking for a place to emigrate to. Her opinions are, to put it charitably, obsolete.
As current trends are just about guaranteed to intensify with continuing migration, I suspect there won't be a single left -of- centre government in Europe in a few years. Ms Sauerbrey should start looking for a place to emigrate to. Her opinions are, to put it charitably, obsolete.
3
The first immigrants in Germany were made aware that they did not belong. They were either called "foreigners" or temporary "guest workers". And after 2-3 generations when "guest worker" became embarrassing they were called "foreign citizens" while the Chancellor of the time made sure to declare that Germany is not an immigrant country.
Immigrant countries like the USA or Canada saw immigrants as people who wanted to work and contribute to build a better life for themselves. They were seen as people leaving everything behind and just taking with them some of their customs to blend into a larger nation. Italians brought to America the Mafia. But they also brought people like Dean Martin who incidentally could not speak English until he went to school. They were all Americans.
Germans would see foreigners as members of failed cultural backgrounds who were trying escape poverty and were expected to leave their customs at the doorsteps. Europe in general and Germany in particular were not interested in the people but just in factory workers. People born in Germany were not considered Germans and were not granted citizenship until very recently. But descendent of German emigrants from the time of Catherine the Great born in Kazakhstan and not being able to speak German had access to German citizenship due to ethnicity.
What is German? Not the people of Germany. Just some people adhering to some cultural background. And this will not work with the millions of refugees.
Immigrant countries like the USA or Canada saw immigrants as people who wanted to work and contribute to build a better life for themselves. They were seen as people leaving everything behind and just taking with them some of their customs to blend into a larger nation. Italians brought to America the Mafia. But they also brought people like Dean Martin who incidentally could not speak English until he went to school. They were all Americans.
Germans would see foreigners as members of failed cultural backgrounds who were trying escape poverty and were expected to leave their customs at the doorsteps. Europe in general and Germany in particular were not interested in the people but just in factory workers. People born in Germany were not considered Germans and were not granted citizenship until very recently. But descendent of German emigrants from the time of Catherine the Great born in Kazakhstan and not being able to speak German had access to German citizenship due to ethnicity.
What is German? Not the people of Germany. Just some people adhering to some cultural background. And this will not work with the millions of refugees.
2
This article is missing the point. The massive numbers of ordinary Germans who now sympathize with the point of view that German culture is incompatible with Islamic culture do not feel this as a matter of principle, and did not even ask themselves the question in previous years. They feel it now because the life they used to know is disappearing. German women used to be able to go out dressed as they liked, to bars, to swimming pools or wherever they wanted without worrying about being harassed on the street. They were not told to cover up and stay at arm's length to avoid problems; yes the mayor of Köln really did advise women to to this, as though they are the ones choosing to get physically close to the men who harass them. This means that they should avoid taking crowded public transportation, for example, which in turn could make it hard to get to work...
I object to this attitude of German/European people as racism. It is NOT, and here is the proof: firstly, it is independent of race and has only to do with certain cultural attitudes and habits; secondly, until most ordinary people were forced to change the lifestyle that they had always known, they barely even gave the issue any thought.
Until it is recognized that the Europeans whose sympathies are now turning to right-wing parties are protesting the radical and ongoing changes in the lifestyle they have always known and not someone else's religious practices, this issue will not be able to move forward.
I object to this attitude of German/European people as racism. It is NOT, and here is the proof: firstly, it is independent of race and has only to do with certain cultural attitudes and habits; secondly, until most ordinary people were forced to change the lifestyle that they had always known, they barely even gave the issue any thought.
Until it is recognized that the Europeans whose sympathies are now turning to right-wing parties are protesting the radical and ongoing changes in the lifestyle they have always known and not someone else's religious practices, this issue will not be able to move forward.
23
The German people are allowed to define and defend their culture and heritage. Islam is not a part of this culture and heritage and anyone who defends their nationality is not a racist.
21
What were are witnessing, by definition, is genocide in the guise of a perverted humanism. It is not hard to find those publically celebrating the demographic suicide of not just Germans but other peoples of European ancestry. A message to the genocidist: you will face justice.
8
What is German? Well, as another article in today's NYT reports, in Iran more than 30 college students were arrested, interrogated and within 24 hours were each given 99 lashes for attending a graduation party that included men and women, Iran’s judiciary announced. THAT is certainly not German, or Western or even sane. Unfortunately, it seems we are expected to accept this action in the name of inclusion and religious tolerance? Many Muslims apparently do. Does that mean we should too? Nonsense.
29
A modern state does not need to resemble the United States in any way, even with the constitution America compelled Germany to adopt in its postwar weakness. Germans are proud of their constitution and its court seated in Karlsruhe. But the outside world (Ausland) is not entitled to foist its inclusive values on everyone. Let Germany alone determine what is German, without interference or judgment.
14
This article seems to suggest that Germans concerned about Muslim extremism are being irrational,paranoid and xenophobic. In truth, they should be concerned. We have seen again and again bombings in England and France and Belgium. Why is it so irrational to be concerned that bombs will be set on German buses and trains? Why is that such an improbable concept? Why not put more pressure on Saudi Arabia or other rich a powerful Muslim nations to accept these refugees? Why don't the Saudis want to open their doors to these migrants? Where is the world outcry against their xenophobic intransigence against their fellow Muslims?
33
It is amazing how much the West has contorted itself to avoid confronting Russia and Putin on Syria. Give Syria back to Syrians, send them home to a peaceful place that they rule and rebuild as a modern democracy. Remove Assad while telling Putin that's the way it has to be. A global coalition consisting of Americans and Europeans could put Putin in his place. The fact that this has not already happened against a backdrop of economic failure is reminiscent of the 1930's. That didn't end well, but we had peace for a time.
1
It seems to me that, based upon all its policies, the German government beleives that "speaking German" is the sine qua non to "being German." What they're missing, however, is that just because I can speak German does not mean that I automatically think/act/behave "German." Rather it only means that I can navigate bureaucratic, social & work situations more easily. And it certainly wasn't AfD that created the requirement for VHS Integration Courses.
p.s. didn't spot too many dark-skinned faces in the photo.
p.s. didn't spot too many dark-skinned faces in the photo.
I always find it funny when Germany portrays itself as a beacon for women's rights. Claiming you're more advanced than other cultures is always a good excuse to stop being self-critical and strive for improvement.
4
Western culture is finally coming to the realization that their struggles to overcome their past sins of discriminatory practices against others is not working and it is not shared. Perhaps, in that struggle for progress, fairness, and equity, the other was idealized too much. And that other is now overlooking the progress made by Western culture and imposing their views for the sake of economic gain without any concessions or accommodations. Their cultures must be accepted as equal. This works fine for men, but not women.
3
Ms. Sauerbrey's article is a prime example of why the discussion about how to deal with mass immigration in Germany is going nowhere fast, unfortunately. She represents a strong undercurrent within the German left intelligentsia. In these circles, the idea that belonging to Germany may have to do with culture is held as an extremist position. This is not to say that the other side is any better. AfD (Alternative for Germany) party leaders are acting deeply unseriously, such as staging a meeting with the Central Council of Muslims in Germany just for show, completely unprepared, only to trade insults and unilaterally breaking off the meeting after one hour.
In earlier times, Germany has been much more adept in integrating immigrants. In the nineteenth century, we have had waves of polish, serbian, bohemian immigrants, many of them coming as miners. These immigrants have truly assimilated. Even the Turkish community has in parts arrived and is finding its own inside German society. Nobody is surprised that German parliamentarians routinely have surnames such as Castelluci, Drobinski, Giousouf, Janecek, Juratovic or Özdemir. Serious discussion takes time. If it can be conducted constructively, including finding an approach to handling immigration that includes an immigration law which is sorely missing, it should be possible to take away at least some of the fear that right now drives high numbers of Germans to vote for exclusionists such as the AfD.
In earlier times, Germany has been much more adept in integrating immigrants. In the nineteenth century, we have had waves of polish, serbian, bohemian immigrants, many of them coming as miners. These immigrants have truly assimilated. Even the Turkish community has in parts arrived and is finding its own inside German society. Nobody is surprised that German parliamentarians routinely have surnames such as Castelluci, Drobinski, Giousouf, Janecek, Juratovic or Özdemir. Serious discussion takes time. If it can be conducted constructively, including finding an approach to handling immigration that includes an immigration law which is sorely missing, it should be possible to take away at least some of the fear that right now drives high numbers of Germans to vote for exclusionists such as the AfD.
13
Many of the comments seem to be Muslims bad Westerns good. They don't show understanding of Germany and it's history. Roman rule, mass migration of German tribes,Huns,Iranic tribes from the east and the Middle Ages so on.
In the 19th century hundreds and thousands of Poles were settled in the Ruhrgebiet- Ruhr area of Western Germany-to work in coal mines and steel making factories and other industrial productions.Today their decedents are as German as anybody else.
The new arrivals have been let in out of necessity not love. Germany has a low birth rate, as in much of Europe. So the choice for the future is to have a poor de-populated Germany or a prosperous country on top of the global economic ladder.Is the risk worth taking by the Merkel government to have nearly a million migrants settle in Germany? The alternative is stark and looks like the Dark Ages.
In the 19th century hundreds and thousands of Poles were settled in the Ruhrgebiet- Ruhr area of Western Germany-to work in coal mines and steel making factories and other industrial productions.Today their decedents are as German as anybody else.
The new arrivals have been let in out of necessity not love. Germany has a low birth rate, as in much of Europe. So the choice for the future is to have a poor de-populated Germany or a prosperous country on top of the global economic ladder.Is the risk worth taking by the Merkel government to have nearly a million migrants settle in Germany? The alternative is stark and looks like the Dark Ages.
2
European nations' identities are not independent of their ethnic cultures. To say otherwise it to ignore centuries of conflict. Sadly, this cultural evolution has not always been enlightened, nor productive. Often sad and deadly. Germans, French, Poles, Swiss, Italians, Hungarians, Greeks, Turks, Swiss, etc. REALLY like their attachments to their hometowns. Hard for them to accept refugees -- the way they accepted my own ancestors in the 1600s, who eventually made it to New York --
It has nothing to do with German culture but much more with the toxic, cancerous nature of wahabist Islam that challenges the tenets of European culture at every turn.
18
The liberal elite, in denying the right of white Europeans to preserve and defend their own ancient history and culture, is creating the far right backlash which we see in France, Britain, Austria, Hungary, Sweden, everywhere. Still, if assuming a tone of moral superiority gives you a warm feeling for 10 minutes, the destruction of civilised life is a small price to pay, right?
17
The Muslim question in Germany did not arise in an aggressive nativist way when large numbers of Turks came to work in Germany. At that time, the Turks were used to a pluralist society and their religion was not aggressively political. The Germans have been fine with Muslims who do not see their religion as aggressively exclusive. I think the reality is that most Germans are at odds only with a strain of Islam that rejects pluralism. And the real issue isn't freedom of religion. It's opposition to a strain of Islam that rejects all alternative religious beliefs and attitudes.
42
Living in Germany, I've observed over the years, that a lot of people who are ethnically from the Middle East who live here seem to fit in very well. I've met doctors, automation experts, business people, teachers, people in German civil service, all who seem to have made a great effort to integrate within German society. There are German politicians who are ethnically Turkish, as well as pianists, writers, entertainers, you name it. Sure, there will be some who don't fit in and, especially with the newcomers, will be insensitive or worse about asserting their religious identity, but I don't think they are anywhere close to a majority of these Middle Eastern newcomers. I've also noticed that most Germans seem hospitable and good-mannered with people from different backgrounds. Thus, the way the whole situation is continually presented seems, to a great extent false. The refugees aren't hordes of Visigoths descending on a German Rome. Neither are the greater number of Germans either weak-minded well-meaning leftist souls, or hardened rightists. I think, in some years, we will look back on all this and wonder what all the hysteria was about. I am sure German culture and its brilliant, enduring civilization, will survive this.
13
National identity in general is one of common history, culture, and language. America is an exception. What binds us is adherence to a belief in -- no matter how far we are from achieving the goals of -- a set of beliefs laid out in two documents, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.
An indication of the difficulty of such a national identity is HUAC, the House UnAmerican Activities Committee, which defined "American" by a set of then current political views. You could have been a member of the D.A.R. and still be considered un-American. Russia, China, Spain, and most other countries would never equate politics and nationality. The French might go through violent periods of killing people because they were communists, royalists, republicans, whatever, but no one thought to deny that those so treated were French.
Western Europe in the face of its (not unblemished) history of humanism, progressive liberal values, and tolerance now finds itself quickly inundated by many people with different values, quite a few of whom have no particular desire to assimilate. Meanwhile, the countries of Western Europe have to define nationality, something they pretty much have taken for granted for a long time. They do not have the advantage America has of primarily being a nation of multicultural immigrants with experience in incorporating them.
We think of nations and states as identical. In general, they are not. We are fortunate; for America, the two are the same.
An indication of the difficulty of such a national identity is HUAC, the House UnAmerican Activities Committee, which defined "American" by a set of then current political views. You could have been a member of the D.A.R. and still be considered un-American. Russia, China, Spain, and most other countries would never equate politics and nationality. The French might go through violent periods of killing people because they were communists, royalists, republicans, whatever, but no one thought to deny that those so treated were French.
Western Europe in the face of its (not unblemished) history of humanism, progressive liberal values, and tolerance now finds itself quickly inundated by many people with different values, quite a few of whom have no particular desire to assimilate. Meanwhile, the countries of Western Europe have to define nationality, something they pretty much have taken for granted for a long time. They do not have the advantage America has of primarily being a nation of multicultural immigrants with experience in incorporating them.
We think of nations and states as identical. In general, they are not. We are fortunate; for America, the two are the same.
1
I've always considered that one of the defining features of America is that we are a land of immigrants and a mix of cultures, American culture is dynamic, ever-changing, and that's what I love (and why I think the US should adopt a policy towards Syrians like Canada's). But I have always respected the fact that Europe (and most of the world) is different. Their cultures are not as strongly defined by a regular influx of newcomers and I see the anxiety they feel of losing something very central to their identity. Merkel's mistake was to stoke the fire by letting in far too many people all at once and not registering them properly and also by accusing those who were concerned of racism, rather than taking their fears seriously and allowing a healthy discussion. Allowing in smaller numbers of well vetted Syrians (and not letting Moroccans and others to slip in) over a longer period of time would have avoided this crisis. I know life is tough in the camps back in Lebanon and Turkey and I feel for the Syrians, but this burst of strong anti-Islam sentiment caused by Merkel's reckless policies is not helping them in the long run either.
9
Germans are completely within their rights to try to preserve their culture and way of life, and to insist that immigrants adapt to and adopt it if they want to be welcome.
They are more than in their right to deny entry to immigrants who refuse to shake hands with women, deny the equality of genders, and/or show inclination towards cultural-religious inflexibility, criminality or violence.
They are more than in their right to deny entry to immigrants who refuse to shake hands with women, deny the equality of genders, and/or show inclination towards cultural-religious inflexibility, criminality or violence.
10
Comments keep attacking the thesis as bleeding heart liberal, but "compassionate" acceptance of immigration tends to be to the long term benefit of the receiving societies, especially those facing demographic challenges of aging like Germany.
Immigrants come with different cultures, but they can be assimilated, it takes patience and effort. Perhaps I'm engaging in the same "cultural relativism" but I cannot see the difference between an expectation that all our neighbors conform to the dominant culture and an overweening entitlement.
Immigrants come with different cultures, but they can be assimilated, it takes patience and effort. Perhaps I'm engaging in the same "cultural relativism" but I cannot see the difference between an expectation that all our neighbors conform to the dominant culture and an overweening entitlement.
1
This new discussion about defining German culture teaches us that even in Merkel's Germany, people now recognize that at some point, on a cultural level, immigrant numbers can simply overwhelm.
8
Merkel is a bright woman, but where did she get the idea that inviting over one million mostly young, male economic refugees was the proper thing to impose on her country? She may wish to be Secy. General or be awarded a Nobel Peace Prize, but to endanger all of Germany in that pursuit is intolerable. I read German newspapers and the nanny state PC overtones are sickening. I would point out that WW2 ended over 70 years ago and Germans today should reject the guilt trip others would lay upon them.
17
In chemisty if you introduce a new element into a melting pot the whole contents of that pot is thus changed be it a mixture or a compound. German culture - like cultures prevalent in others part of this world - has changed a lot over the past millenia and will continue to change again in the future.
2
As a reaction to the Nazi period, for 70 years, Germans have been indoctrinated with naive and impractical ideas about multiculturalism. Whatever their background, whatever the situation in their respective home countries: millions of refugees travel to Germany from all over the world. Syrian refugees have to pass through at least half a dozen safe countries to reach Deutschland. The difference is, Germany with its do-good complex will never deport them. The state will take care of them, provide welfare, housing subsidies, education etc. And in 30 years, when most of them are still unemployable, Germans will wring their hands about not working hard enough to integrate them.
9
I am in Germany right now and cannot but see the influx of refugees in every big city we visit. Diversity is good and global acceptance is even better. I hope Germans don't take any negative turns to the far right. That past history is still present and hopefully well remembered only as a stark reminder to never to go there again.
2
I think this may a situation where size really does matter.
If you look at the US as a whole, it has been "invaded" over the years by wave after wave of immigrants, including, yes, Germans, as well as Mexicans and Hispanics, Asians of various origins, and other Europeans. Has the country lost its identity or question what it is to be American? No, not so much. On the contrary, I believe most Americans celebrate the diversity of cultures, which all exist under the umbrella of being "American." And this process of assimilation is quick and complete.
Throughout America, on the local level, on the neighborhood level, however, you do often find the same kind of tribalism rampant across European and other small countries around the world. And you will find cultural ghettos in most American cities. Still, most Americans enjoy their cultural and culinary visits to "Chinatown" or "Japantown" or "Little Italy" or Miami.
And so it becomes more understandable why some Germans or Italians or French get anxious when a large group of culturally alien immigrants arrives all at once. Rather than being a nation of immigrants, these are nations that have sustained centuries of invasions and wars, for whom being "German" or Italian" or "French" has deep seeded meaning and little experience with assimilation.
If you look at the US as a whole, it has been "invaded" over the years by wave after wave of immigrants, including, yes, Germans, as well as Mexicans and Hispanics, Asians of various origins, and other Europeans. Has the country lost its identity or question what it is to be American? No, not so much. On the contrary, I believe most Americans celebrate the diversity of cultures, which all exist under the umbrella of being "American." And this process of assimilation is quick and complete.
Throughout America, on the local level, on the neighborhood level, however, you do often find the same kind of tribalism rampant across European and other small countries around the world. And you will find cultural ghettos in most American cities. Still, most Americans enjoy their cultural and culinary visits to "Chinatown" or "Japantown" or "Little Italy" or Miami.
And so it becomes more understandable why some Germans or Italians or French get anxious when a large group of culturally alien immigrants arrives all at once. Rather than being a nation of immigrants, these are nations that have sustained centuries of invasions and wars, for whom being "German" or Italian" or "French" has deep seeded meaning and little experience with assimilation.
9
It is unfortunate that Ms. Sauerbrey seems to possess such a feeble knowledge of history and human nature required to place this subject of German Nationalism into the appropriate realistic historical context.
The definition of "culture" is; the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people or other social group, as well as their attitudes and behavioral characteristics.
These defining traits of human nature and resulting organized political hierarchy ,otherwise known as a Tribes, States, Nations, or "Superpower" have aways possessed a mercurial discontinuity in policy when faced with the assimilation of (what is perceived) to be foreign. Europe's history is a litany of seemingly absurd yet realistic contradiction between National (or State) paranoia, distrust ,and vilification of neighbor's (or their invading armies), and foreign populations allowed (sometimes invited) to settle with natives.
Her ending comment, with regard to "A modern nation cannot be built... etc.)
is quite heroic and virtuous, yet the realities of the Human condition, and the lessons of history, unfortunately render this statement as pathetically naive and unrealistically nonjudgemental. Judgement is how laws are created and societies are structured.
Don't blame me, I didn't make the rules.
The definition of "culture" is; the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people or other social group, as well as their attitudes and behavioral characteristics.
These defining traits of human nature and resulting organized political hierarchy ,otherwise known as a Tribes, States, Nations, or "Superpower" have aways possessed a mercurial discontinuity in policy when faced with the assimilation of (what is perceived) to be foreign. Europe's history is a litany of seemingly absurd yet realistic contradiction between National (or State) paranoia, distrust ,and vilification of neighbor's (or their invading armies), and foreign populations allowed (sometimes invited) to settle with natives.
Her ending comment, with regard to "A modern nation cannot be built... etc.)
is quite heroic and virtuous, yet the realities of the Human condition, and the lessons of history, unfortunately render this statement as pathetically naive and unrealistically nonjudgemental. Judgement is how laws are created and societies are structured.
Don't blame me, I didn't make the rules.
10
Hundreds of millions of Muslim women are second class citizens from North Africa to Indonesia. Do Germans think that their German culture, deeply rooted in Christianity and egalitarianism, will survive wave after wave of Muslim immigration and cultural mingling? Do they think the ideal of egalitarianism between men and women will survive German - Muslim cultural mixing for the next 200 years? This could go very badly, especially for women. It looks like a big experiment to me. Mix well and see what happens. Thanks to Germans for taking up the vanguard in this experiment.
24
These Syrian immigrants to Germany are for the most part fleeing for their lives. You really have to feel for them. There are good humanitarian reasons for Germans to let them stay permanently.
But if they stay permanently, will these new immigrants be happy to let their children have mostly German friends, do mostly German things, and perhaps marry a German? If so, they'll likely pay a very heavy price, for their children may well seem culturally alien to them in time, even shockingly immoral and degenerate--drinking beer, wearing skirts, etc. So the temptation for these immigrants to discourage their children from intimately socializing with Germans and especially marrying Germans will be great.
And that Germans don't want new neighbors like this is readily understandable. They'll think, "We took you in at our own expense, but now our sons and daughters aren't good enough for yours?" So what are the Germans to do? They can't very well legislate how immigrants raise their children, but they can legislate immigration itself.
When you get past the xenophobic rhetoric of some and the blanket accusations of xenophobia of others, I think that Germans are right to be cautious about widespread immigration in this case. Their humanitarian impulse, however, is also very praiseworthy.
But if they stay permanently, will these new immigrants be happy to let their children have mostly German friends, do mostly German things, and perhaps marry a German? If so, they'll likely pay a very heavy price, for their children may well seem culturally alien to them in time, even shockingly immoral and degenerate--drinking beer, wearing skirts, etc. So the temptation for these immigrants to discourage their children from intimately socializing with Germans and especially marrying Germans will be great.
And that Germans don't want new neighbors like this is readily understandable. They'll think, "We took you in at our own expense, but now our sons and daughters aren't good enough for yours?" So what are the Germans to do? They can't very well legislate how immigrants raise their children, but they can legislate immigration itself.
When you get past the xenophobic rhetoric of some and the blanket accusations of xenophobia of others, I think that Germans are right to be cautious about widespread immigration in this case. Their humanitarian impulse, however, is also very praiseworthy.
12
This assumes, that many muslims consider the german culture as hostile, immoral or inferior. It is rather the opposite. As we take in muslims from all over the world, and they realize that they are all fleeing sectarian oppression by other muslims, and swomehow they all are looking for a future in europe, they realize that there has to be some reason why muslims from all over the world are fleeing to europa.
If we define, what it needs to be a german, it is also because other, and especially muslims, want to know that too.
If we define, what it needs to be a german, it is also because other, and especially muslims, want to know that too.
4
I have never been to Germany but from my limited reading of Goethe, Nietzsche & Hesse, it would seem German culture has more in common with Confucianism than Islam.
4
Perhaps a better ending: "eat schnitzel AND wear a head scarf."
1
Turkish guy here - I am an agnostic atheist and my wife and chldren are born and raised as Christians. I am curious as to how you guys measure religion ? My wife says some of the most open minded people she met are wearing headscarves.
The fact that Europeans have repeatedly failed to separate Islam from Islamism and turned this issue into a phobia is a mistake and will turn some of Europe's lost Muslims into fanaticals. They are spreading butter on to fanatics' bread.
As I understand, this article is questioning the legitimacy of fingerpointing which I hope that you will not do in the US. Fingerpointing is like lowering your values so practical results are achived without ethical concerns. Once this mechanism starts it will continue to devour anyone on its path like a tropical system feeding on humidity. It will be first Muslims and then immigrants and then gays and then Jews and then blacks, women etc.
Whomever your problem is with please solve it through ethical means. The rule of law (based on justice) is what makes America great and I'm not certain loosening of critical screws of your system will make America great again.
The fact that Europeans have repeatedly failed to separate Islam from Islamism and turned this issue into a phobia is a mistake and will turn some of Europe's lost Muslims into fanaticals. They are spreading butter on to fanatics' bread.
As I understand, this article is questioning the legitimacy of fingerpointing which I hope that you will not do in the US. Fingerpointing is like lowering your values so practical results are achived without ethical concerns. Once this mechanism starts it will continue to devour anyone on its path like a tropical system feeding on humidity. It will be first Muslims and then immigrants and then gays and then Jews and then blacks, women etc.
Whomever your problem is with please solve it through ethical means. The rule of law (based on justice) is what makes America great and I'm not certain loosening of critical screws of your system will make America great again.
9
I'm not surprised the far-right is setting the tone when it comes to questions of identity in Germany, and indeed in much of Europe.
The European political and media establishment have essentially decreed as racist and xenophobic any concern that any European citizen may have about unfettered immigration or the disorganized and capricious way in which the influx of migrants and refugees has been handled. Any concerns about the rise in crime and sexual assault as a result of increased migration of young men from countries where women are seen and treated as lesser beings is either rationalized away, or again, is treated as racist. This very columnist is guilty of having done so in a previous column. The establishment narrative is that multi-culturalism and immigration are always a good thing, and any deviation from that position is immediately marginalized and vilified in the strongest terms. Unfortunately such has always been par for the course when one goes against elite opinion in Europe.
Is it at all surprising then that when different views are tarred as extremist, that extremist parties will rise?
The European political and media establishment have essentially decreed as racist and xenophobic any concern that any European citizen may have about unfettered immigration or the disorganized and capricious way in which the influx of migrants and refugees has been handled. Any concerns about the rise in crime and sexual assault as a result of increased migration of young men from countries where women are seen and treated as lesser beings is either rationalized away, or again, is treated as racist. This very columnist is guilty of having done so in a previous column. The establishment narrative is that multi-culturalism and immigration are always a good thing, and any deviation from that position is immediately marginalized and vilified in the strongest terms. Unfortunately such has always been par for the course when one goes against elite opinion in Europe.
Is it at all surprising then that when different views are tarred as extremist, that extremist parties will rise?
24
I’m really conflicted when I read an article like this.
I’m an American and unless you’re a faux nativist of the Donald Trump variety, our national cultural identity point of reference is always our Constitution. We do have wonderful regional cultural traditions of long standing, but our national “native culture” derives from our Constitution. It’s why people from all over the world come here in the first place and why they rapidly become American.
I experience this every day in California. I’m a 67 year old somewhat conservative white male and in every social or business engagement I’m always the “minority” participant among my fellow Americans. But it doesn’t matter. White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, Indian, Christian, Muslim, Jew, male, female, gay, whatever, we all speak the same basic “language” and share the same basic “culture”. It’s the “language” and “culture” our Constitution blesses us with through its articles and the laws derived from them.
Nevertheless, I can understand how people in countries with deep cultural identities can be fearful of losing same. I am, too. It’s hard to imagine a world stripped of them.
As our faux nativist cheerleader Mr. Trump would say: Sad!
I’m an American and unless you’re a faux nativist of the Donald Trump variety, our national cultural identity point of reference is always our Constitution. We do have wonderful regional cultural traditions of long standing, but our national “native culture” derives from our Constitution. It’s why people from all over the world come here in the first place and why they rapidly become American.
I experience this every day in California. I’m a 67 year old somewhat conservative white male and in every social or business engagement I’m always the “minority” participant among my fellow Americans. But it doesn’t matter. White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, Indian, Christian, Muslim, Jew, male, female, gay, whatever, we all speak the same basic “language” and share the same basic “culture”. It’s the “language” and “culture” our Constitution blesses us with through its articles and the laws derived from them.
Nevertheless, I can understand how people in countries with deep cultural identities can be fearful of losing same. I am, too. It’s hard to imagine a world stripped of them.
As our faux nativist cheerleader Mr. Trump would say: Sad!
14
Splendid! You explain why the child of immigrants, legal or not, can be more American after a passing grade in a high school civics course than ignorant nativists and right wing blowhards.
I agree with you about how citizens or subjects of other countries can feel worry about losing what has been until now an ancient homogenous culture. I glory in the fact that the strip mall closest to my house has Mexican/Salvadoran and Chinese restaurants plus a very American dinner. It might not seem the same on the Unter den Linden.
I agree with you about how citizens or subjects of other countries can feel worry about losing what has been until now an ancient homogenous culture. I glory in the fact that the strip mall closest to my house has Mexican/Salvadoran and Chinese restaurants plus a very American dinner. It might not seem the same on the Unter den Linden.
My very good father always loved Germany. The language, the books, the music, the history, the culture. This did not prevent him from being arrested on a street in Berlin on Kristallnacht, sent to Buchenwald, having his business and property confiscated, being evicted from Germany with just the clothes on his back and losing many family members and friends to Hitler.
Starting over in America was hard. At the age of 38, he found work as a stock boy in a department store, saved every penny he possibly could and eventually was able to start another small business of his own.
The best explanation he could ever come up with for what had happened to him was that the people of Germany had gone crazy. There was a part of him that never stopped loving those books, that music and that culture.
When Germany lost my father, they lost an extremely valuable citizen, a man capable and desirous of contributing to the progress and development of his country in many ways.
It is a terrible pity that Germany and other countries in Europe are now falling victim to many of the same attitudes that back in the Thirties made them incapable of understanding and benefitting from the many fine qualities of people like my father.
Starting over in America was hard. At the age of 38, he found work as a stock boy in a department store, saved every penny he possibly could and eventually was able to start another small business of his own.
The best explanation he could ever come up with for what had happened to him was that the people of Germany had gone crazy. There was a part of him that never stopped loving those books, that music and that culture.
When Germany lost my father, they lost an extremely valuable citizen, a man capable and desirous of contributing to the progress and development of his country in many ways.
It is a terrible pity that Germany and other countries in Europe are now falling victim to many of the same attitudes that back in the Thirties made them incapable of understanding and benefitting from the many fine qualities of people like my father.
40
Its not the same. There will be more trouble due to Merkel opening the floodgates to the third world. Either you have sovereign states, tax jurisdictions, saftey nets, or you dont.
4
That is not at all the situation today. The Muslim equivalent of your father who "loved Germany. The language, the books, the music, the history, the culture. .." would be embraces and welcomed today. The problem is the immigrants who do NOT love and embrace German culture, but reject it as going against Muslim values.
8
For me as a Germany it is very sad that many friends turned to the AfD. It will lead first to cultural and then to real war.
Why so many people had to leave their homeland? It was the Iraq war which is now a never ending war.
Shouldn't all those people who lost their homes come to USA, because America started this war?
It is not about blame - It is about reality and justice.
How Americans would react if millions of people from the Middle East would show up at their doorsteps? - Luckily there is the Atlantic Ocean.
The outcome I guess would be the same. Why? It is hard to explain to poor people without hope, food and jobs in Germany or USA that this is the right thing to do. You have to have living wages for all, social justice before this will work.
We Germans live in a Global economy without borders, but we care more for our borders and differences - A very sad outcome to predict.
Why so many people had to leave their homeland? It was the Iraq war which is now a never ending war.
Shouldn't all those people who lost their homes come to USA, because America started this war?
It is not about blame - It is about reality and justice.
How Americans would react if millions of people from the Middle East would show up at their doorsteps? - Luckily there is the Atlantic Ocean.
The outcome I guess would be the same. Why? It is hard to explain to poor people without hope, food and jobs in Germany or USA that this is the right thing to do. You have to have living wages for all, social justice before this will work.
We Germans live in a Global economy without borders, but we care more for our borders and differences - A very sad outcome to predict.
1
What is German?
In the 21th century - 'Being German and something else'.
Sometimes 'European' - sometimes having parents who are from somewhere else.
And I know that a few FBG's (Full Bloodied Germans) don't like that.
So what!-
(in the next 100 years there will be less and less of them)
In the 21th century - 'Being German and something else'.
Sometimes 'European' - sometimes having parents who are from somewhere else.
And I know that a few FBG's (Full Bloodied Germans) don't like that.
So what!-
(in the next 100 years there will be less and less of them)
4
Anna Sauerbrey, you're right: "The rights and duties of the members of this community should be defined by their achievements, and by the rule of law." But you do appreciate to live in a community, in which people are - more or else - educated, and don't let religion dictate your everyday life.
Of course you can't expect every foreigner to know who Albrecht Dürer, Johann Sebastian Bach were, or what the literary movement "Sturm und Drang" is all about. But if someone chooses to settle down in Germany for good and wants to become a naturalised citizen, it is not too much to ask, how much he/she knows about Germany - its language, history and culture etc.
German is not my mother-tongue, but when I speak, German speakers do take me seriously.
Of course you can't expect every foreigner to know who Albrecht Dürer, Johann Sebastian Bach were, or what the literary movement "Sturm und Drang" is all about. But if someone chooses to settle down in Germany for good and wants to become a naturalised citizen, it is not too much to ask, how much he/she knows about Germany - its language, history and culture etc.
German is not my mother-tongue, but when I speak, German speakers do take me seriously.
26
I was born in West Germany and spent 10 of my first 12 years in Munich, the other two in Queens NY. Luckily, there were no special concessions made to ease learning English for immigrants at the time, and my siblings and I learned English quickly as there was no alternative. After returning to Germany, I attended school for US Forces dependents, as my German father worked for the CIA. There I was called a Kraut, but still had American friends. I lived in a German suburb (Solln), and was periodically stoned by German kids and called a Dreckiger Ami (dirty American), and still had German friends as well.
I love both my cultures, and appreciate immigrants celebrating their language and culture when living abroad, but offering concessions to each immigrant group, such as education in their native language, offering citizenship and providing foreign language voting instructions for those who haven’t met the language requirement fosters an entitlement mentality, limits more lucrative job opportunities, and creates huge economic costs.
Those concessions are being made in one form or another by all countries accepting large numbers of immigrants, inspired by political correctness, misguided altruism, and pandering for votes. It would be refreshing if common sense could prevail in Germany, as it hasn’t in the US.
I love both my cultures, and appreciate immigrants celebrating their language and culture when living abroad, but offering concessions to each immigrant group, such as education in their native language, offering citizenship and providing foreign language voting instructions for those who haven’t met the language requirement fosters an entitlement mentality, limits more lucrative job opportunities, and creates huge economic costs.
Those concessions are being made in one form or another by all countries accepting large numbers of immigrants, inspired by political correctness, misguided altruism, and pandering for votes. It would be refreshing if common sense could prevail in Germany, as it hasn’t in the US.
89
Liebe Frau Sauerbrey-------what you did not tell us is what it means to be German. You must have read the Faust; you may want to think of the last Schubert piano sonatas; you probably have heard of Caspar David Friedrich. What about Georg Baselitz, the Berlin Philharmonic . Don't be taken hostage by German verbiage like "Leitkultur " and "Fremdbestimmung" and tell us what your idea is of being German---and what you would not like to loose.
19
franz Schubert was Austrian
1
Isn't this the whole point of the article, that searching for something specific "German" can never succeed and is useless in any sense, and that we therefore should focus on a common ground of coexistence?
1
The author's slightly veiled positions are that: 1. All cultures are inherently equal, and, 2. Any attempt to define your culture and defend it is "right wing" and "nativist." The fact of the matter is that values differ significantly among the world's cultures. There is a particularly wide gap between Islamic values and Western values with respect to equality of the sexes, secularism and freedom of expression. Is Islam "part of Germany?" Of course it isn't. Historically, Europe waged a constant defensive battle against Ottoman incursions from the 16th century onward. What is unreasonable about requiring immigrants to adhere to German (ie, Western) cultural values?
93
not to mention spain and sicily w other than ottoman incursions.
1
The concept of a nation state, a culture, or a people is inherently arbitrary. Ms Sauerberry provides a weak definition, merely rhetoric, without explanation. What makes her opinion more accurate than anyone else's?
17
Touchy subject, that of a group trying to preserve purity and homogeneity, a concept of superiority conducive to belittle others just because of ethnicity or religion or some other characteristic that group decides to discriminate against. Very dangerous attitude, eminently tribal, "Us vs Them", whose carnage and inhumanity (Nazi doctrine) are still fresh in our memory, a shame we have to live with, and whose atrocities must be taught in school so never to repeat them. And what better alternative than being a member of the European Union, so rich in diversity, so wise in its inclusion of all people that choose to live and work in Germany, and feel part of a country that not only tolerates our differences but embraces them. German language and culture will be as strong as we allow it to be, if only we could transcend the stupid belief that some are better than others by the color of our skin, by the slant in our eyes and any other ethnic characteristic that fails to enhance our common humanity. Racism, an invented word to exploit and destroy other people by a lame excuse, ought to be banned from our lexicon. That is, if we allow reason and logic to prevail, and replace hate with love in our spirit and in our heart. Insofar as refugees (especially Muslim) concerned, it behooves us to incorporate all of them, via education, and make sure we all abide by the 'golden rule'.
4
What is German? "The extremists have already taken control. For a disturbing number of Germans, the answer is culture." This woman is off the deep, deep end of liberal. Of course culture is what defines any country.
Corporations, including their paid mainstream media propagandists, are pushing mightily to wipe out any notion of country, hearth, and home so that they can steamroller the entire world population into submission as workers/slaves/consumers. I don't agree with the theme--repeated on a daily basis in the NYT and elsewhere--that peoples' homelands are a dead concept and that globalization is inevitable. Keep pushing back, people.
Corporations, including their paid mainstream media propagandists, are pushing mightily to wipe out any notion of country, hearth, and home so that they can steamroller the entire world population into submission as workers/slaves/consumers. I don't agree with the theme--repeated on a daily basis in the NYT and elsewhere--that peoples' homelands are a dead concept and that globalization is inevitable. Keep pushing back, people.
61
A "reasoned debate?" There is no such thing about immigration now that political correctness is the vogue.
Point out any negative about illegal (or legal) immigration and the speaker is labeled a bigot or xenophobic by the PC crowd. This has forced the more moderate citizens in the middle to remain silent and grow angry in silence or turn to a candidate like Trump. Liberals are reaping what they sowed.
Point out any negative about illegal (or legal) immigration and the speaker is labeled a bigot or xenophobic by the PC crowd. This has forced the more moderate citizens in the middle to remain silent and grow angry in silence or turn to a candidate like Trump. Liberals are reaping what they sowed.
45
I agree, Conservative Democrat; the PC crowd's "reasoned debates" are all over as far as they're concerned - they are just giving you the memo. The funny thing is that every country seems to have a culture worth preserving except the Western ones.
3
"What is German?" -- This is not a new question. And it is one that has been asked out loud since the end of the Second World War, when their identification was so closely linked with Adolf Hitler and National Socialism.
Being half-German, I too have wondered about the same thing.
It's more than Lederhosen and Schnitzel, more than speaking the language and understanding the culture. It's something that is difficult to put into words, because there's really no one answer.
The fall of the Berlin Wall had Germans asking this same question again; because the East-Germans, though German, were entirely different.
And now there's this refugee crisis and its influx of foreigners, which has not only brought out the darker side of Germany, but also raised the specter of Nazism again.
Angela Merkel's "Willkommenskultur" (Welcoming Culture) has had a serious backlash -- and one that the German Press has been afraid to touch because no one wants to look like a "Bad German".
And while the populist 'Alternative für Deutschland' and its right-wing agenda is gaining popularity, no one really wants to go back in history.
At the moment the Christian Democrats and the Social Democrats are struggling to come up with a viable candidate for Chancellor.
Even though Merkel is still somewhat popular, it's too early to say if she will be re-elected.
Being half-German, I too have wondered about the same thing.
It's more than Lederhosen and Schnitzel, more than speaking the language and understanding the culture. It's something that is difficult to put into words, because there's really no one answer.
The fall of the Berlin Wall had Germans asking this same question again; because the East-Germans, though German, were entirely different.
And now there's this refugee crisis and its influx of foreigners, which has not only brought out the darker side of Germany, but also raised the specter of Nazism again.
Angela Merkel's "Willkommenskultur" (Welcoming Culture) has had a serious backlash -- and one that the German Press has been afraid to touch because no one wants to look like a "Bad German".
And while the populist 'Alternative für Deutschland' and its right-wing agenda is gaining popularity, no one really wants to go back in history.
At the moment the Christian Democrats and the Social Democrats are struggling to come up with a viable candidate for Chancellor.
Even though Merkel is still somewhat popular, it's too early to say if she will be re-elected.
5
The author's viewpoint is completely wrong, nonsensical and at odds with very mainstream and standard issue leftist notions of culture and group traditions.
The only difference is of course the author is talking about a particular type of Western culture and German culture at that. You couldn't pick a culture with more baggage relating to cultural exclusivity.
However, that doesn't mean German culture, French culture or heck even American culture isn't a unique culture worth preserving as it is and has been practiced in the past, just like the culture of the Navajo or Western Armenians or of the Māori or whatever group is the latest to be threatened with the loss of their traditional way of life
I don't even understand if people like the author think more than 10 or 20 years into the future. You do realize that the whole world will become one giant Walmart parking lot if people don't take affirmative steps at some point to preserve unique ways of life.
I guess I'll book my trip to Germany now before people like the author have their way.
The only difference is of course the author is talking about a particular type of Western culture and German culture at that. You couldn't pick a culture with more baggage relating to cultural exclusivity.
However, that doesn't mean German culture, French culture or heck even American culture isn't a unique culture worth preserving as it is and has been practiced in the past, just like the culture of the Navajo or Western Armenians or of the Māori or whatever group is the latest to be threatened with the loss of their traditional way of life
I don't even understand if people like the author think more than 10 or 20 years into the future. You do realize that the whole world will become one giant Walmart parking lot if people don't take affirmative steps at some point to preserve unique ways of life.
I guess I'll book my trip to Germany now before people like the author have their way.
56
My problem begins when left wingers from the chattering classes identify anybody to the right of, say, Che Guevara as "Extreme Right." They don't like to admit it, but to them the iconic Che of tee-shirt fame is glamorous left, which in their idealism equates to sophisticated left. It would almost be center left but their sense of snobbishness would rule out anything to do with center as not being cool enough.
I identify as evangelical NRA member Tea Party sympathetic conservative. I am sure that would get me pretty severely labeled. I identify Barack Obama as a reluctant center-leftist with a huge chip on his shoulder regarding race, religion, and the anti-colonial dogmas of his father. Also the Ivy League and Frank Marshall Davis stuffed Obama's head full of leftist distortions of history and economic reality.
I can never image PBS or NPR describing Bernie Sanders as an "extreme leftist", although they will toss around the "extreme right wing" label at the drop of a hat. To a certain type of elite mentality, the USA should be a lot more like Scandinavian socialist countries, down to the casual mixing of sexes in showers and saunas.
The real culture war in Germany will be between the local LGBT lobby and new citizens more interested in their neighborhoods following Sharia Law.
For kicks, watch the classic movie "Cabaret" with Lisa and Joel again and imagine along with Nazi thugs and all the cultural depravity there are tens of thousands of devout, modest Muslims.
I identify as evangelical NRA member Tea Party sympathetic conservative. I am sure that would get me pretty severely labeled. I identify Barack Obama as a reluctant center-leftist with a huge chip on his shoulder regarding race, religion, and the anti-colonial dogmas of his father. Also the Ivy League and Frank Marshall Davis stuffed Obama's head full of leftist distortions of history and economic reality.
I can never image PBS or NPR describing Bernie Sanders as an "extreme leftist", although they will toss around the "extreme right wing" label at the drop of a hat. To a certain type of elite mentality, the USA should be a lot more like Scandinavian socialist countries, down to the casual mixing of sexes in showers and saunas.
The real culture war in Germany will be between the local LGBT lobby and new citizens more interested in their neighborhoods following Sharia Law.
For kicks, watch the classic movie "Cabaret" with Lisa and Joel again and imagine along with Nazi thugs and all the cultural depravity there are tens of thousands of devout, modest Muslims.
11
I wonder what the Germans would think about immigrants from Japan or South America or Canada or Singapore. I believe they would not care about them. It seems to me that the German resistance to immigrants is aimed at a narrow slice of the world's population, that is, those who profess Islam.
11
Japan, South Korea, Canada, and Singapore ALL have highly educated populations that could easily contribute to the economy. What, exactly, is a North African economic migrant with a 3rd grade education going to do in Germany (one of the most technical and highly skilled workforces on the planet). The mentioned countries also share similar VALUES and therefore would integrate well. I am liberal, but this hyper-PC nonsense where we can't admit that there are differences in cultures is getting out of control. Why should Germans have to want groups of people that have medieval beliefs about some of the things Germans care the most about: equality among citizens including between genders, free speech, the ability to handle criticism including of one's religion, non-violence, etc..
8
If true, what are the causes of that?
2
Not Mark...
I get you Anna. Once, a strict vegetarian made a face at a group guys biting into some barbecued chicken legs hungrily using their fingers. He probably thought, "How barbaric!" And some women, wearing scarves and long skirts, probably look at women in tank tops and shorty shorts and say, "How uncouth and uncivilized". Many things are relative and are mere perspectives, and hence must encompass tolerance, understanding, change and slow or rapid integration. But it also requires being open to new information, different information and even opposing information.
This means that Middle East must also diversify, and start allowing other cultures, and start electing non-Muslims to high office, etc. If you want me to be tolerant, nice, inclusive and fair to you...then you must do the same for me in your country, or country of origin.
I think it is remarkable of Angela Merkel to do what she did, and continues to do. That woman deserves the next Nobel Prize for Peace. I have always admired her.
What we also need are greater number of people around the world moving to the ME and becoming citizens there happily and equally. That too needs to happen. And Muslims need to make it happen. As a woman I'd feel very comfortable among many Syrians in Germany...but I still feel uncomfortable in many places in the Middle East.
Thanks for writing.
I get you Anna. Once, a strict vegetarian made a face at a group guys biting into some barbecued chicken legs hungrily using their fingers. He probably thought, "How barbaric!" And some women, wearing scarves and long skirts, probably look at women in tank tops and shorty shorts and say, "How uncouth and uncivilized". Many things are relative and are mere perspectives, and hence must encompass tolerance, understanding, change and slow or rapid integration. But it also requires being open to new information, different information and even opposing information.
This means that Middle East must also diversify, and start allowing other cultures, and start electing non-Muslims to high office, etc. If you want me to be tolerant, nice, inclusive and fair to you...then you must do the same for me in your country, or country of origin.
I think it is remarkable of Angela Merkel to do what she did, and continues to do. That woman deserves the next Nobel Prize for Peace. I have always admired her.
What we also need are greater number of people around the world moving to the ME and becoming citizens there happily and equally. That too needs to happen. And Muslims need to make it happen. As a woman I'd feel very comfortable among many Syrians in Germany...but I still feel uncomfortable in many places in the Middle East.
Thanks for writing.
6
The only significant immigration of outsiders to the ME in decades have been Jews. Look how they were received, despite being of the same racial stock.
1
I eat pork. I do respect those who don't want to eat pork . But it's absurd if I cannot eat pork because some others believe it's dirty.
37
I once had nothing but admiration for German ingenuity and logic. They implemented and accelerated renewable energy at a remarkable pace. They have building codes for thermal efficiency the whole world should embrace. Their manufacturing base is amazing. Then the VW diesel scandal hit and now they admit a million Muslim immigrants. What gives Germany, where is the logic.
11
I certainly agree there is obvious islamophobia in many of these right wing groups, and that this is problematic. However, I would disagree with Ms. Saurbrey that equating ones German-ness with culture is wrong or somehow negative... Culture is a pretty broad term which includes a lot of intangibles. It need not include ethnicity, but it does include cultural values and practices.
As an American who spent a significant portion of my life growing up in Germany (and many other countries/cultures), I would say that they certainly have identifiable cultural traits. Generally speaking, I observed an emphasis on order, on the group as a whole rather than the individual (hard for many Americans to understand). Germans are much more likely to speak up when there is a public disturbance to favor public harmony. We Americans are more British in this regard, and tend to mutter a lot under our breaths.
Although it is distasteful to rank cultures as superior or inferior, it is assinine to deny that some cultural practices, behaviors, and ways of doing things lend themselves to higher economic prosperity than others, which is why migrants gravitate toward Germany to begin with. If these new arrivals adopt the German values, language, cultural practices, they should have no problem transitioning into the culture and will be as "German" as anyone.
As an American who spent a significant portion of my life growing up in Germany (and many other countries/cultures), I would say that they certainly have identifiable cultural traits. Generally speaking, I observed an emphasis on order, on the group as a whole rather than the individual (hard for many Americans to understand). Germans are much more likely to speak up when there is a public disturbance to favor public harmony. We Americans are more British in this regard, and tend to mutter a lot under our breaths.
Although it is distasteful to rank cultures as superior or inferior, it is assinine to deny that some cultural practices, behaviors, and ways of doing things lend themselves to higher economic prosperity than others, which is why migrants gravitate toward Germany to begin with. If these new arrivals adopt the German values, language, cultural practices, they should have no problem transitioning into the culture and will be as "German" as anyone.
44
So what is wrong with allowing the majority of Germans to decide what is "German culture" and "who is German?" If 60% of Germans polled believe there is a distinctive German Leitkultur that is historically based in a Christian sensibility and respect for liberal social values such as women's rights and freedom of speech, that is their (majority) choice and needs to be respected by non-Germans. Anyone who has spent time in Germany can perceive that there is indeed a distinctive German Leitkultur prevailing in German society; just as there is an American cultural sensibility here in the USA.
Denying the reality of a Muslim-German cultural clash, as when the authorities in Cologne were not forthright about the extent and severity of the New Year's Eve rapes, does not change what is real, and the majority of Germans can clearly see this.
Denying the reality of a Muslim-German cultural clash, as when the authorities in Cologne were not forthright about the extent and severity of the New Year's Eve rapes, does not change what is real, and the majority of Germans can clearly see this.
27
Who is German? I think the answer is quite simple. Germans accept anyone, regardless of color, nationality or religion, who immigrate there and learn the language, adopt German cultural norms, respect German laws and work so that they cintrivhave the to the welfare state. That is a modern German.
37
One is a German citizen if one of their parent was a German citizen, irrespective of place of birth, or by birth in Germany to parents with foreign nationality if certain requirements are fulfilled. For example, a person born in Germany to foreign nationals may become a citizen if their parents resided in Germany for at least eight years during their 21 first years of life. Everyone else must apply for citizenship and go through the nationalization process.
1
Just another example that we are still very tribal.
1
Hmmm, if an essential part of German culture is Christianity, whether of the Protestant or Catholic (or even the small minority Orthodox) kind, then why aren't German churches bursting at the seams with "real" Germans? As elsewhere across Europe, churches are closing or being repurposed because they're empty. Does such a fact not undermine claims about the Christian nature of contemporary German culture? (Of course, the same question could be asked about other Western nations, including the US.) Is the German link to Christianity about a (not untroubled) past dominated by triumphal understandings of Christianity and perhaps a nostalgia for it? Is it ultimately a negative characterization: well, we're not Muslim or Jewish or Hindu or Buddhist (despite the presence of Germans who practice all those faiths and/or identify with all those cultural traditions), so we must be Christian? And which part of Christianity is being evoked? The story of the Good Samaritan? The command to love one's neighbor as one's self, especially a neighbor in need? (These last two, of course, were messages from an observant Jew.) Religion and nationalism are, once again, troubling partners.
14
You don't need churches bursting at the seams to be a Christian country. The UK now has more atheists than practising Christans, but it's culturally a Christian country, and so is Germany. The norms, values, holidays and shared understandings are derived in part from the Christian heritage. There's a huge proportion of European art, music and culture that is simply unintelligible if you don't understand some of the basic tenets of Christianity.
4
Identity is always built by contrast with what one is not. Like the fish who don'g realize they live in water until they are taken out of it, we don't realize our culture is Christian until we contrast it with those that aren't.
Just as someone's individual family has a culture, which only those who grew up in can fully know. The inside jokes, the shared traditions and memories, make up that family culture. Even rebelling against it means that is the basis for the rebellion. So it is on a larger scale for a society.
Are your childhood memories of Christmas and Easter, or Eid and Ramadan? Are your literature, your art, your movies, your music, your history and your conversations impossible to fully understand without a good grounding in the stories of the Bible, or the Koran, or the Upanishads? That is what determines your culture.
And if you rebel against it, what are you rebelling against? It is against the restrictions of Christianity, or those of Islam, or Buddhism or Judaism or Confucianism, etc.?
Just as someone's individual family has a culture, which only those who grew up in can fully know. The inside jokes, the shared traditions and memories, make up that family culture. Even rebelling against it means that is the basis for the rebellion. So it is on a larger scale for a society.
Are your childhood memories of Christmas and Easter, or Eid and Ramadan? Are your literature, your art, your movies, your music, your history and your conversations impossible to fully understand without a good grounding in the stories of the Bible, or the Koran, or the Upanishads? That is what determines your culture.
And if you rebel against it, what are you rebelling against? It is against the restrictions of Christianity, or those of Islam, or Buddhism or Judaism or Confucianism, etc.?
1
What would happen if 1.1 million Germans showed up and marched upon the shores of a Muslim country? Then they made demands for houses, jobs, food, medical and education. Followed by not learning the local language or caring about customs or mores. Then they tried to change local laws and religious traditions to suit them.
They would freak out!! Then bigger problems would most certainly follow.
Try looking at it this way and then understand how tolerant the Germans have been in the face of all that's going on. Extremely tolerant I'd say.
I don't know if Americans would be as kind and generous.
They would freak out!! Then bigger problems would most certainly follow.
Try looking at it this way and then understand how tolerant the Germans have been in the face of all that's going on. Extremely tolerant I'd say.
I don't know if Americans would be as kind and generous.
48
Never mind welcoming Germans -- Middle Eastern nations have refused entry to fellow Muslims -- the Syrian war refugees. A Kuwaiti leader, for example, explained last year that allowing such migration "would disrupt our society."
6
Apparently, the majority of Germans (and of the NYT readership) have absolutely no qualms about vilifying Muslims in a way that would never happen today with Jews. The sort of Leitkultur spoken of here is precisely the same nonsense that propelled the Nazi party to success in 1933 and on to the Anschluss and occupation of the Sudetenland in 1938. Once you have defined who is German, then any country or province with populations of Germans must be incorporated into Germany (so the fascist reasoning went). Austria and Czechoslovakia were swallowed up in the first stage of WWII, meanwhile racial purity laws were passed to make sure Germans stayed pure. For good measure, jailing and killing non-Germans became the primary method to ensure Lebensraum (the Nazi policy of ethnic-cleansing Europe of the "subhuman" Slavs, Gypsies, Latins, Greeks, etc.)
It is quite appalling to read the other comments and realize we are ripe for a fascist state right here and now. No wonder Trump is doing so well.
It is quite appalling to read the other comments and realize we are ripe for a fascist state right here and now. No wonder Trump is doing so well.
14
You are confusing valuing something, and being ready to commit horrific crimes to protect it.
It is like the difference between valuing and protecting your children, and being eager to kill other children to give yours certain advantages. One does not follow from the others, and your argument is like condemning valuing your children at all because it might lead to the latter.
It is like the difference between valuing and protecting your children, and being eager to kill other children to give yours certain advantages. One does not follow from the others, and your argument is like condemning valuing your children at all because it might lead to the latter.
3
I hope we can move away from seeing German actions through the lens of Hitler's Germany. That was a different Germany in a different world. This Germany is an ally and in the end the far-right is only resonating with 10-15% of the electorate. Germany is a responsible friend dealing with a hard public policy issue. They look to me as if they are handling the issue responsibly; providing a refuge and publicly debating the limits of their hospitality.
1
The audacity of those awful people who want to preserve their kultur of almost 2000 years!
4
A title straight out of The Gay Science, and not one mention of the author Friedrich Nietzsche.
3
I've heard over and over again, how when "progress" or the first world moves into a poorer area, it's so terribly sad because a local indigenous culture is lost.
Why is it any different if poor people move into a wealthy nation, and that culture is in danger of being lost?
Europe is not New York, where new cultures are "blended in" every decade. Germany has social norms and customs that make a unique culture. I can understand that they don't want to lose it.
Legally, people should be able to wear what they want and worship as they please. But if I walked into a German restaurant today, I wouldn't expect Falafels to be on the menu. I'd expect there would be schnitzel.
Why is it any different if poor people move into a wealthy nation, and that culture is in danger of being lost?
Europe is not New York, where new cultures are "blended in" every decade. Germany has social norms and customs that make a unique culture. I can understand that they don't want to lose it.
Legally, people should be able to wear what they want and worship as they please. But if I walked into a German restaurant today, I wouldn't expect Falafels to be on the menu. I'd expect there would be schnitzel.
5
The generational political and cultural trends occurring within the EU and in the US are part of what maybe a much larger political realignment over the next 15-20 years. The immigration flashpoint in Germany is but another example of how weak institutions have become as they are unable to protect their citizens or nurture an identity.
But let's all put this high minded social theory aside. If you were to ask me whether I could allow my 20 year old daughter to commute on a train filled with men whose culture and experience is to dominate, abuse, mutilate and objectify women-- I would say I don't have one day I would take that risk. Not one. And it's Merkel's government proposing some sensitivity training. Really.
But let's all put this high minded social theory aside. If you were to ask me whether I could allow my 20 year old daughter to commute on a train filled with men whose culture and experience is to dominate, abuse, mutilate and objectify women-- I would say I don't have one day I would take that risk. Not one. And it's Merkel's government proposing some sensitivity training. Really.
8
If you think that you have the right to allow or not allow your 20 year old daughter to do anything, then you're much closer than you think to those immigrant bogeymen you fear so much.
REALLY
The right wing is really so entertaining. It was not so, so long ago -- less than 100 years and a total national upheaval -- that Hitler lamented in Mein Kampf that Christianity had gained ascendancy in Germany and not the Muslim religion which he found more warlike and suited to this warlike people. Now we discover the new right wing finding that Muslim's are a poor fit for the Germans, not presumably because they are not pious or Christ like enough enough, for if the Germans were actually Christians they would presumably welcome their neighbors but -- and here I can only guess -- but because like another set of German favorites, they don't eat pork? All so contradictory, so pathetic, if this were not good for a laugh I'd say these people were thoroughly doomed by their inanity.
The right wing is really so entertaining. It was not so, so long ago -- less than 100 years and a total national upheaval -- that Hitler lamented in Mein Kampf that Christianity had gained ascendancy in Germany and not the Muslim religion which he found more warlike and suited to this warlike people. Now we discover the new right wing finding that Muslim's are a poor fit for the Germans, not presumably because they are not pious or Christ like enough enough, for if the Germans were actually Christians they would presumably welcome their neighbors but -- and here I can only guess -- but because like another set of German favorites, they don't eat pork? All so contradictory, so pathetic, if this were not good for a laugh I'd say these people were thoroughly doomed by their inanity.
4
Defining national culture is always a tricky thing, but nations that have been around as long as Germany do have a particular way of doing things. At least since 1871, the German state has created a legal framework for Germany's economic, social, and cultural life, which is distinct from that of even other German-speaking countries (think Bismarck's welfare state and the German research university).
And then, in a federal country like Germany, there are the strong regional cultures like that of Bavaria and Hesse, which are rooted in centuries of Christian culture, which is why German public holidays are almost exclusively Christian:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_Germany
Of course, Germany is a very secular country, but even atheists love Christian holidays like St. Martin's day, because it's fun to make lanterns with your kids, take them to a procession and then have roasted goose for dinner.
I deplore the AfD and everything it stands for, but I deplore multiculturalists like Ms. Sauerbrey even more, not least because they are strengthening radicals on the right by suggesting that Germany's national and regional cultureS (!) and secularized Christian traditions are irrelevant for Germany's identity.
At any rate, the AfD is not primarily rising on a tide of identity politics. As the Left politician Gregor Gysi pointed out, the AfD is winning absolute majorities among workers and the unemployed, who fear the migrants' competition on the labor market.
And then, in a federal country like Germany, there are the strong regional cultures like that of Bavaria and Hesse, which are rooted in centuries of Christian culture, which is why German public holidays are almost exclusively Christian:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_Germany
Of course, Germany is a very secular country, but even atheists love Christian holidays like St. Martin's day, because it's fun to make lanterns with your kids, take them to a procession and then have roasted goose for dinner.
I deplore the AfD and everything it stands for, but I deplore multiculturalists like Ms. Sauerbrey even more, not least because they are strengthening radicals on the right by suggesting that Germany's national and regional cultureS (!) and secularized Christian traditions are irrelevant for Germany's identity.
At any rate, the AfD is not primarily rising on a tide of identity politics. As the Left politician Gregor Gysi pointed out, the AfD is winning absolute majorities among workers and the unemployed, who fear the migrants' competition on the labor market.
25
I really wish I could agree with the writer fully. My heart is with her. But my head tells me that people are essentially tribal, and that this massive European experiment will end in disaster.
The American experiment was different insofar as those who came in were for the most part eager to "become Americans." My own parents could not wait to forget the language and culture of their immigrant parents.
This has not been the case with a critical mass of immigrants to Europe, starting with the post World War II guest workers and accelerating to the newcomers of today, both war refugees and economic immigrants.
You don't have to be a demagogue like Donald Trump to see the social destabilization that is occurring. So much of that is not covered in the New York Times, but if you read European newspapers and have European friends, you become aware of the steady drumbeat of ominous news.
A society needs more than a set of abstract ideas that only some numbers ascribe to to hold it together. Religion? Culture? Yes, in the end these are critical stabilizers, and we ignore this at our peril.
The American experiment was different insofar as those who came in were for the most part eager to "become Americans." My own parents could not wait to forget the language and culture of their immigrant parents.
This has not been the case with a critical mass of immigrants to Europe, starting with the post World War II guest workers and accelerating to the newcomers of today, both war refugees and economic immigrants.
You don't have to be a demagogue like Donald Trump to see the social destabilization that is occurring. So much of that is not covered in the New York Times, but if you read European newspapers and have European friends, you become aware of the steady drumbeat of ominous news.
A society needs more than a set of abstract ideas that only some numbers ascribe to to hold it together. Religion? Culture? Yes, in the end these are critical stabilizers, and we ignore this at our peril.
47
"What is German — and how German do you have to be to belong to Germany?"
The answer lies in identity politics: You are as German as you self-identify.
Verstehen sie?
The answer lies in identity politics: You are as German as you self-identify.
Verstehen sie?
5
Schnitzel is not even German!
1
The society so open and tolerant that it will open its doors to and tolerate intolerance will not survive on its own terms.
9
In Germany, as in much of Europe -- ask a Spaniard lately this question? -- it is blut.
I lived in West Berlin in the 1980s, and we know that is the most liberal of Germans. The folks in the country, the folks in Bavaria, for that matter the folks an hour outside of Hamburg, still believe you are German by blood or you are not German.
Not my fault; I am simply the messenger with the bad news. This is a very difficult -- i.e., multi-generational -- change that will happen. If it happens.
I lived in West Berlin in the 1980s, and we know that is the most liberal of Germans. The folks in the country, the folks in Bavaria, for that matter the folks an hour outside of Hamburg, still believe you are German by blood or you are not German.
Not my fault; I am simply the messenger with the bad news. This is a very difficult -- i.e., multi-generational -- change that will happen. If it happens.
3
Those who choose to immigrate to Germany should understand they are guest and respect the native culture. Guests must be willing to compromise their norms which run counter to German culture. This includes tolerance toward the consumption of beer and pork, public displays of affection, equal rights for women, adherence to local laws, etc. If they are unwilling to do so, they should leave.
16
While the notion of culture predates and transcends both the nation and the state, the concepts of modern nation state and territorial sovereignty emerge only after signing of the Westphalia treaty that ended the thirty-year war in Europe. To combine culture, essentially a social construct, with nation and state is not only a negation of both but a sure recipe for disaster.
2
I would argue the precise converse of the assertion of your last sentence.
This is an issue, many countries should ask themself, because nationalism is on the rise, and cultural entrenchment has become a fertile motivation.
If you pin up cultural identity by icons, which many do, then most right wingers would fail miserably, and i would really like to put some of these 'defenders' of the german culture into a wagner opera, and let them read Friedrich Nietzsche afterwards.
If there is a german culture, it may be an attitude - like trust in society and law enforcement, the appreciation of education, the way we make friends, how we interact with people in our daily life, the (un-)importance of religion, social care, permanent discontent with the government, but at the same time some hunch of a moral superiority. To be german is an attitude of daily life. And i do not think this is so different from other european countries or north america.
But the most important issue is, that we are political stable, and this is nothing german (and it ist easy to prove that germans can make a mess), that is a result of history.
So what should we expect from the migrants ? Surely not that they worship Beethoven and Goethe, this also would make the nationalist look stupid. But that they just will enjoy our daily attitude of life. We are just struggling to picture this. And that makes it so difficult to promote it.
If you pin up cultural identity by icons, which many do, then most right wingers would fail miserably, and i would really like to put some of these 'defenders' of the german culture into a wagner opera, and let them read Friedrich Nietzsche afterwards.
If there is a german culture, it may be an attitude - like trust in society and law enforcement, the appreciation of education, the way we make friends, how we interact with people in our daily life, the (un-)importance of religion, social care, permanent discontent with the government, but at the same time some hunch of a moral superiority. To be german is an attitude of daily life. And i do not think this is so different from other european countries or north america.
But the most important issue is, that we are political stable, and this is nothing german (and it ist easy to prove that germans can make a mess), that is a result of history.
So what should we expect from the migrants ? Surely not that they worship Beethoven and Goethe, this also would make the nationalist look stupid. But that they just will enjoy our daily attitude of life. We are just struggling to picture this. And that makes it so difficult to promote it.
16
Germany isn't the only country asking such a question. A similar one is being posed right here in the US of A, and I have a nasty feeling that the wrong answer could emerge here sooner than it might in Germany.
22
the-sky-is-falling I think not
I'm not sure the question is the same in both countries, but one of the outcomes - the attraction of the far-right - is common to both. In the US, the immigrants, of which the Hispanic ones are almost exclusively Christian, are the scapegoats for an economy defined by the corporatists (this may yet come to pass in Germany!) Muslims, who are fewer, are drawn into the animosity due to their association with terrorism and especially 9/11. In Germany the religious issue, specifically Islam, seems to be in the forefront right now
What bothers me in all of this is that I don't feel enough distinction is being made between those who are in actual need of refuge from war and those who simply see this as an opportunity to "move to somewhere better." The population of Syria is actually relatively moderate and well educated. They are fleeing death. Syria is small country. I don't think Germany's noble act of kindness should be allowed to be taken advantage of. Those who think they can just waltz in because they feel like living somewhere "better" should be sent home.
I have always considered myself liberal and progressive. But recently I have felt a real disconnect with parts of the left. I don't think it's fair at all to call Germans who have a problem with the situation "racist." I think many others are feeling the same thing and this is why so many far right politicians are doing so well. We are losing the moderates.
I have always considered myself liberal and progressive. But recently I have felt a real disconnect with parts of the left. I don't think it's fair at all to call Germans who have a problem with the situation "racist." I think many others are feeling the same thing and this is why so many far right politicians are doing so well. We are losing the moderates.
147
Agreed. I'm in the same situation, a liberal who doesn't think that everyone surrounding Europe is entitled to come and claim asylum just because they weren't born wealthy and want to live in a better country.
10
I invite the New YOrk Times to give the AFP leader some column space.
75
Why should the NYT give the AFP leader some column space?
PS: Fairness and objective journalism should not count as valid answers.
PS: Fairness and objective journalism should not count as valid answers.
Ms. Sauerbrey's catty, snarky, shallow reference to "schnitzel" and a "head scarf," as if cuisine and religious insignia aren't culturally significant, is something I'm rather sure she'd never equally apply to France, Israel, Turkey, or India. Moreover, she defines "community" as the binding concept, but fails to define what community itself entails. Let us talk about "ontological notions." The entire column is intellectually shallow claptrap.
122
natch - it's the NYTimes...
3
Obviously, according to the NY Times, a true German must be a fundamentalist Muslim who believe that everyone should adhere to Sharia law. Anything else is not sufficiently "inclusionary."
84
Rubbish!
13
This is an "Op-Ed" piece and not the opinion of the NY Times.
The writer represents herself, not the Times. This is not an editorial.
She undermines her own argument by not dealing with the issue of women in Islam versus the status of women in advanced Western democracies. There is a real lack of compatibility in this area. Western women should not suffer because of Muslim immigration. That is not fair or just.
182
And either should the LGBT community suffer because of Muslim immigration.
2
Western Women are not going to public pools anymore and now some pools say it is okay for Muslim women to enter the pool fully robed.
1
"What does it mean to be 'Japanese'?" is a headline you wouldn't see so why do we see this one?
75
Or Korean or Chinese for that matter. There is a double standard for those who have lighter skin and wish to find identity
4
To suddenly say, in the middle of the article, that "the Alternative for Germany is promoting its cultural version of the Aryan nation" comes across as an unsubstantiated slur, unworthy of honest journalism.
151
"It follows, at least for the new German right, that cultures can be compared and ranked — some are worth preserving, while others are invasive and inferior".
No, Ms. Sauerbrey, that is not what AvD is saying at all. Distorting and making up their imaginary views is not a proper way of making an argument. No one is "comparing and ranking" the cultures. The issue is simply about a community's right to defend and protect its culture, in particular by deciding on which and how many newcomers it could safely absorb. If the roles were reverse and hordes of desperate Germans were flooding peaceful and prosperous Syria with their beer, pork sausages and lederhosen, surely the Syrians too would be well within their rights to limit the influx for the sake of protecting their culture.
No, Ms. Sauerbrey, that is not what AvD is saying at all. Distorting and making up their imaginary views is not a proper way of making an argument. No one is "comparing and ranking" the cultures. The issue is simply about a community's right to defend and protect its culture, in particular by deciding on which and how many newcomers it could safely absorb. If the roles were reverse and hordes of desperate Germans were flooding peaceful and prosperous Syria with their beer, pork sausages and lederhosen, surely the Syrians too would be well within their rights to limit the influx for the sake of protecting their culture.
157
As if beer and sausages defines the german culture.
By the way, the ultimate german snack is a muslim import called "döner".
And i do not mind what the people eat or what they way, as long as they tolerate my way, and that is what is german to me.
By the way, the ultimate german snack is a muslim import called "döner".
And i do not mind what the people eat or what they way, as long as they tolerate my way, and that is what is german to me.
15
Yes!
I was saying to a friend the other day, "Hey, I've got a good idea. Let's all move to Switzerland. Who cares what the Swiss might think about it."
I was saying to a friend the other day, "Hey, I've got a good idea. Let's all move to Switzerland. Who cares what the Swiss might think about it."
2
If I was German I would like to be a good host to outsiders.
But I would not want to be a guest in my own country.
It is obvious that in the US, white males who fought the British, wrote the constitution and made America rich, have now become guests in their own country.
Perhaps Trump is not racist or xenophobic. He is just leading the dismay of those who feel the country was theirs and who now feel outnumbered.
And oh, I am not a white male. But I do understand how some of them feel.
But I would not want to be a guest in my own country.
It is obvious that in the US, white males who fought the British, wrote the constitution and made America rich, have now become guests in their own country.
Perhaps Trump is not racist or xenophobic. He is just leading the dismay of those who feel the country was theirs and who now feel outnumbered.
And oh, I am not a white male. But I do understand how some of them feel.
66
Truly crazy Rohit in so many ways:
-- no one who fought the British is alive today; indeed their ancestors make up a minuscule portion of the population today;
-- those who wrote the Constitution are even a smaller percentage;
-- Tories who supported the British were a significant minority and their ancestors remain as well;
-- all Americans contributed to building the country's wealth;
-- the country never belonged to white men in any sense of the word;
-- the fact that Indians were defeated makes them no less legitimate citizens.
One could go on like this for some time.
-- no one who fought the British is alive today; indeed their ancestors make up a minuscule portion of the population today;
-- those who wrote the Constitution are even a smaller percentage;
-- Tories who supported the British were a significant minority and their ancestors remain as well;
-- all Americans contributed to building the country's wealth;
-- the country never belonged to white men in any sense of the word;
-- the fact that Indians were defeated makes them no less legitimate citizens.
One could go on like this for some time.
2
This is nonsense. What is your measure? If it is having the most wealth, top jobs, political power and getting paid more than women, by all these measures white men are doing just fine.
I thought America was the land of opportunity. The forefathers our first refugees took land from native peoples and imposed laws and values that did more to corrupt than civilize. What happened to the Melting Pot concept of America welcoming immigrants--the tired, the poor, the downtrodden? For a country that made white males rich exploiting native peoples land and resources and then enslaving an entire majority to build and labor mercilessly until reluctantly forced by their own poor judgement challenging the Union to be badly defeated and rightly so. The crowd supporting Trump's bid are the same losers Republicans have always exploited, people so blinded by hate and jealousy, that they elect slates that do not work in their best interests. Folks in this country have to realize that America is constantly evolving and no particular group can claim more rights than any other once they achieve citizenship. The trouble with Americans is we have short memories and too many guns.
Although I identify as a liberal-progressive in general terms, I am skeptical of the self-shaming reflexes that perpetually kick into auto-drive whenever the blame game is in play. It is a cliche that grew tiresome long ago.
Here is a good writing assignment for Ms. Sauerbrey: given that millions of Muslims are fleeing the homicidal madness of their fellow Muslims, who is going to solve their internal socio-political dysfunctions? Is that our job as well? If so, please explain the why and how and when of it all. And please be specific. The devil is in those details.
Here is a good writing assignment for Ms. Sauerbrey: given that millions of Muslims are fleeing the homicidal madness of their fellow Muslims, who is going to solve their internal socio-political dysfunctions? Is that our job as well? If so, please explain the why and how and when of it all. And please be specific. The devil is in those details.
122
In an age of instantaneous electronic global communication and easy global travel, racially and culturally homogeneous nation states are an anachronism that are not only impossible to preserve, but also self-defeating.
Canada, for example, does not define itself in terms of any ethnic or religious identity but rather a set of set of social values that revolve around respect for others' humanity and shared goals of health, peace, and prosperity.
Hogging social benefits for one's own ethnic or religious grouping and denying them to others creates conflict where cooperation would otherwise be natural. People pulling together to achieve common goals creates community and makes happy people.
Fighting over whose cultural values are superior poisons the social atmosphere, and everybody suffers.
Canada, for example, does not define itself in terms of any ethnic or religious identity but rather a set of set of social values that revolve around respect for others' humanity and shared goals of health, peace, and prosperity.
Hogging social benefits for one's own ethnic or religious grouping and denying them to others creates conflict where cooperation would otherwise be natural. People pulling together to achieve common goals creates community and makes happy people.
Fighting over whose cultural values are superior poisons the social atmosphere, and everybody suffers.
32
If all or even most shared your views, the world you imagine might be possible.
2
Individuals born in Canada are citizens. Individual born outside of Canada can become Canadian citizens by descent if one of their parents is a citizen of Canada either by having been born in Canada or by naturalization. However, citizenship by descent is limited to one generation born outside Canada. Everyone else has to apply for citizenship and go through the nationalization process.
2
"racially and culturally homogeneous nation"
What troubles so many Europeans is the seemingly dogged determination of immigrants who very strongly identify, first and foremost, with their religion, Islam, NOT to integrate into the nation state in which they expect to be welcomed.
It's not German culture in Germany that is the anachronism. It is the expectation by recent immigrants that they do not need to respect the culture of their new home and can instead impose their own.
What troubles so many Europeans is the seemingly dogged determination of immigrants who very strongly identify, first and foremost, with their religion, Islam, NOT to integrate into the nation state in which they expect to be welcomed.
It's not German culture in Germany that is the anachronism. It is the expectation by recent immigrants that they do not need to respect the culture of their new home and can instead impose their own.
5
When last I read Ms. Sauerbrey's musings, she was dismissing the New Year's eve Cologne sexual assaults on German women by young Muslim men as "hysteria." She was siding with recently-arrived Muslim men against hundreds of German women who are used to a certain level of security afforded them by German men. She obviously feels that Muslim cultural norms represent no challenge to German society. And if you think that, obviously you are a xenophobe and a nativist. For Sauerbrey, any objection to this unilateral transformation of Germany by Merkel recalls "purity" obsessions from the Nazi era. Any attempt to perhaps maintain a functioning society is a sinister return of old evils. Sauerbrey may be surprised to considers this: liberal societies did grow out of Christian societies. One looks in vain for a liberal society that has grown out of Islamic tradition. Open and liberal societies are not the norm on this planet. If they are wrecked by unchecked immigration or by a frightened reaction to it, there's no guarantee they will ever return.
299
To think that two large groups of people which on so many issues: religious tolerance v dogma, sexual freedom v. repression, literacy v. illilteracy, protestant work ethic v. unemployability, guilt v. a right to a first world life by virtue of seeing it on a cell phone, years of paying high taxes into a social security system v. just arrived, to think these two groups are going to mesh because Merkel tells them to, and because Merkel is motivated by her personal advancement to secretary of the UN, is....welll you fill in the gap. The best I can say is its willfully dishonest for the sake of left wing narcissistic self-identity. The worst I can say is that it is wishes to fool Germany into destroy itself to get even for the 2nd world war.
54
Let's not forget that Christianity was pretty oppressive and aggressive until recently. Spanish Inquisition, 13th century, Galileo imprisoned for heresy against the Church - 17th century, burning of witches, late 17th century. Western liberalism is AMERICAN, not religious in origin. A culmination of the Age of Enlightenment, and its proponents who fought a war against established monarchy, but who were rationalistic, not theocratic. Remember that England,France, Spain, and Germany among others, were all monarchies when America became a democracy. Yes,there are ancient roots in the Greek Republic, so perhaps we really have the Greeks to thank for western liberalism.
15
Liberalism has its roots NOT in America, but in the breakthrough of "scientific" thinking, for lack of a better word. Of course, you have to go back to Ancient Greece and beyond to find its seeds.
But after the fall of Rome and the Middle Ages (during which there was a lot of backtracking) you can pretty well point to Galileo and other Italian Renaissance thinkers as those who rediscovered the seeds and planted them. Then you get English people like Newton and French, like Voltaire, extending "rational" thinking and advancing a secular, science based view of the world.
This new way of thinking, much more powerful in terms of the understanding of the forces of nature, in its application gradually gave rise to the amazing advances in medicine and technologies that resulted in the industrial revolution.
The result has been a doubling in the human life span and a level of wealth for the average person never before known in human history.
Those societies that have most embraced this approach to the world have seen the greatest benefits.
But after the fall of Rome and the Middle Ages (during which there was a lot of backtracking) you can pretty well point to Galileo and other Italian Renaissance thinkers as those who rediscovered the seeds and planted them. Then you get English people like Newton and French, like Voltaire, extending "rational" thinking and advancing a secular, science based view of the world.
This new way of thinking, much more powerful in terms of the understanding of the forces of nature, in its application gradually gave rise to the amazing advances in medicine and technologies that resulted in the industrial revolution.
The result has been a doubling in the human life span and a level of wealth for the average person never before known in human history.
Those societies that have most embraced this approach to the world have seen the greatest benefits.
2
Some day the left is going to have to learn that all cultures are not created equal, that some are superior to others. The culture and dominant religion of the refugees swarming into Germany is not compatible with German culture (however defined), and should be accommodated only to the extent needed to assimilate these refugees into the German way of behaving and doing things.
211
"that all cultures are not created equal, that some are superior to others"
It is not a matter of superiority but simply what you feel at home in.
After all, Syrians, however awful they might be, did not put Jews in gas chambers. (Nor did they defoliate the forests of Vietnam or nuke Hiroshima.)
But then neither did the Syrians write Bach's partitas or Beethoven's symphonies.
Germans are entitled to be proud of their achievements and shame at their failures. But they are German achievements and German failures.
And ditto for America. Being fond of your homeland and being attached to your culture does not mean that you are better than others. Just that you are who you are.
It is not a matter of superiority but simply what you feel at home in.
After all, Syrians, however awful they might be, did not put Jews in gas chambers. (Nor did they defoliate the forests of Vietnam or nuke Hiroshima.)
But then neither did the Syrians write Bach's partitas or Beethoven's symphonies.
Germans are entitled to be proud of their achievements and shame at their failures. But they are German achievements and German failures.
And ditto for America. Being fond of your homeland and being attached to your culture does not mean that you are better than others. Just that you are who you are.
3
I agree. German culture is far superior to the American one.
3
Assimilation and integration will not happen. The USA is an example. The gains in liberal thinking rights for all, and the overcoming of past sins will not be accepted by most who don't share the same background. One example in this country is slavery which is used to constantly bring up issues of discrimination even when none exist in many cases. And those same minorities who accuse the majority of discrimination do not make any contributions to the improvement of society. Even though this country promotes multiculturalism, differences in cultures still exist particularly as regards to women's rights attitudes and sexual harassment and abuse. Soon, there will not be a safe place to escape. It's called globalization. Yes, there are some cultures superior to others, unfortunately. It's disappointing when our ideals do not match reality.
Leitkultur oder einheimische Kultur? Let the Germans decide. Neither is inherently noble or evil. But let them also remember that they are still on a sort of probation.
I believe that the Allies conducted the aftermath of WW II much more wisely and kindly than the one before, and I have faith that the Germany of Bach and Goethe will prevail over that of Bismarck and the Third Reich. But if there is ever another WW, there will be no Kulturkampf to be fought.
I believe that the Allies conducted the aftermath of WW II much more wisely and kindly than the one before, and I have faith that the Germany of Bach and Goethe will prevail over that of Bismarck and the Third Reich. But if there is ever another WW, there will be no Kulturkampf to be fought.
11
No, Germany is not on probation. If we look at 1945 Europe, then America today is a whole lot more "German" than contemporary Germany.
24
The "Germanic: tribes swept into Germania and seeped into, then overran the West Roman Empire in the 5th century.
The new Muslim immigrants lack enlightenment values and intend to impose by force (and numbers) to change the nature of the Germanic lands, demarcated and recognized as such since before the time of Charlemagne, crowned Holy Roman Emperor in 800 AD, after his predecesosor Charles Martel stopped the Muslim onslaught at Tours (Poitier) in 732 AD with a wall of free heavy infantry. This did not end Muslim pillage in werstern lands but did stop their consolidation in what would produce a rebirth of classical western civilization in the 15th century.
Even the feckless Merkel has rejected the farce of multi-culturalism after allowing the infiltration of aliens who will not assimilate, inflicted on the German people. Don't be so smug Americans: Gen Curtis LeMay, 8th AF, remarked that the allies would de tried as war criminals had they lost WW2, after the terror bombing of the German cities, despite evidence at the time that it would not shorten the war
W. Recklinghausen.
The new Muslim immigrants lack enlightenment values and intend to impose by force (and numbers) to change the nature of the Germanic lands, demarcated and recognized as such since before the time of Charlemagne, crowned Holy Roman Emperor in 800 AD, after his predecesosor Charles Martel stopped the Muslim onslaught at Tours (Poitier) in 732 AD with a wall of free heavy infantry. This did not end Muslim pillage in werstern lands but did stop their consolidation in what would produce a rebirth of classical western civilization in the 15th century.
Even the feckless Merkel has rejected the farce of multi-culturalism after allowing the infiltration of aliens who will not assimilate, inflicted on the German people. Don't be so smug Americans: Gen Curtis LeMay, 8th AF, remarked that the allies would de tried as war criminals had they lost WW2, after the terror bombing of the German cities, despite evidence at the time that it would not shorten the war
W. Recklinghausen.
2
Le May would disagree with you about strategic bombing. He argued against use of atomic bombs in Japan because he claimed to have destroyed anything worth destroying.
Terror bombing of places like Dresden and Hamburg were in retaliation for the bombing of Coventry, London and Rottrrdam. Remember the rocket attacks by Germany against England?
Terror bombing of places like Dresden and Hamburg were in retaliation for the bombing of Coventry, London and Rottrrdam. Remember the rocket attacks by Germany against England?
1
It seems the comment I put through about an hour ago is not making it past the censors. Granted, it was challenging and somewhat confrontational. But it was in no way threatening, vulgar, or promoting any kind of violence or hatred.
Might it still show up? We'll see. Stay tuned.
Might it still show up? We'll see. Stay tuned.
17
Seems the screeners have a sense of humor. Don't worry they always censor me for being a Hillary supporter.
By what achievements? That sounds like it excludes someone.
4
This article brings Thomas Mann to mind. His literary works stand for reason, democracy and good will. In his personal life Mann helped many people -- refugee writers, exiles, victims of Nazi persecution. When Germans were embracing the Nazi thugs and burning his books, Mann wrote these words:
"They think they are Germany, but it is I who am Germany, and if it were to be exterminated root and branch, it would endure in me. Behave how you like to fend me off -- I still stand for you. But . . . I am born for reconciliation rather than for tragedy . . . universal humanity . . . for Germanness is freedom, education, universality, and love -- that they don't know this, does not alter it . . . . " (From his diary)
"They think they are Germany, but it is I who am Germany, and if it were to be exterminated root and branch, it would endure in me. Behave how you like to fend me off -- I still stand for you. But . . . I am born for reconciliation rather than for tragedy . . . universal humanity . . . for Germanness is freedom, education, universality, and love -- that they don't know this, does not alter it . . . . " (From his diary)
64
My German relatives would agree with Mann.
3
For truly, German culture was built solely and completely on Christianity ... NOT! There are tons of pagan and Jewish influences throughout it. Cue unprintable cursing here, as people once again try to erase non-Christian European influences in their arrogance and ignorance and bigotry.
37
Fellow readers, I encourage you not to base your opinions about AFD on what Sauerbrey says, but rather on what leaders of what AFD actually say and do.
I have read many of Sauerbrey's columns and this one follows the usual format. She gives a few real quotes of relatively harmless statements from AFD such as, "einheimische Kultur" and "Islam does not belong TO Germany" (emphasis added, since it doesn't. It was founded thousands of kilometers away 1400 years ago by a group of people that had no contact with Germans and only arrived in Germany in the very recent past).
Once she has given the real quotes she then goes on to "paraphrase" or more accurately "put words into the mouths of" AFD leaders and supporters.
Pay attention! Got to first sources. Don't take Sauerbrey's word for it. Read the party platform yourself. Listen to the speeches yourself.
Sauerbrey's approach is a classic manipulative technique. She is by no means alone in employing it. Don't be pulled in by it.
I have read many of Sauerbrey's columns and this one follows the usual format. She gives a few real quotes of relatively harmless statements from AFD such as, "einheimische Kultur" and "Islam does not belong TO Germany" (emphasis added, since it doesn't. It was founded thousands of kilometers away 1400 years ago by a group of people that had no contact with Germans and only arrived in Germany in the very recent past).
Once she has given the real quotes she then goes on to "paraphrase" or more accurately "put words into the mouths of" AFD leaders and supporters.
Pay attention! Got to first sources. Don't take Sauerbrey's word for it. Read the party platform yourself. Listen to the speeches yourself.
Sauerbrey's approach is a classic manipulative technique. She is by no means alone in employing it. Don't be pulled in by it.
99
Yikes, but neither does Christianity really belong TO Germany either. It too was "founded thousands of kilometers away 2016 years ago by a group of people that had no contact with Germans". Actually, the irony is that the founders of Christianity (Paul/ Saul) and even Jesus himself were merely liberal Jews. Christianity came to Germany via the Roman empire, before that they likely worshiped Thunder gods and the god of Trees, etc. Snap out of it Germany!
20
The comment is a rationalization for rising Neo-fascism in Europe and Germany in particular. This is nothing more then old style nationalistic, authoritarian, bigotry anti- immigrant, popularism and nativism. Just plain old Nazism.
6
Is it Adolf Hitler or Albert Einstein the germans should take as role model.
German culture is nothing that should be promoted so uncritical.
German culture is nothing that should be promoted so uncritical.
1
"A modern nation state cannot be built on an ontological notion of who belongs and who does not, whether it’s outright ethnic or pseudo-cultural. It needs to build on the notion of the nation as a community — a community including those who were born here, those who came to stay and those who will stay for a while and then return to their homes. The rights and duties of the members of this community should be defined by their achievements, and by the rule of law — not by whether they eat schnitzel or wear a head scarf."
While I am strongly sympathetic, we kid ourselves if we think we can simply shame tribalism away. While Christianity certainly aided and abetted tribalisms in the past 2,000 years, ultimately the universalist message (Jesus died and rose to save everyone, and ordered us to forgive everyone likewise) corrodes the foundations of tribalism (which is why Hitler and many modern alt-right folks were/are anti-Christianity), and we need to seriously consider if the ideology of modernity is truly able to replace that in Western culture - the jury is still *far* out on that one.
While I am strongly sympathetic, we kid ourselves if we think we can simply shame tribalism away. While Christianity certainly aided and abetted tribalisms in the past 2,000 years, ultimately the universalist message (Jesus died and rose to save everyone, and ordered us to forgive everyone likewise) corrodes the foundations of tribalism (which is why Hitler and many modern alt-right folks were/are anti-Christianity), and we need to seriously consider if the ideology of modernity is truly able to replace that in Western culture - the jury is still *far* out on that one.
12
And hence why Anna's cultural worldview, aligned with Western European ideals, will doom Germany. Neo-Aryan ideologues are never pleasant but liberalism is not sufficiently suited for assimilating Sunni Islamic culture. Europe has been the site of history and will soon fulfill its destiny.
Up to a point. I stick at your assertion that “Christianity certainly aided and abetted tribalisms.” I’d be inclined to say the reverse. But of course it’s a vast subject that would need a lot of narrowing down and defining of terms to be talked about sensibly.
This article seems a bit one-sided.. I think the reason that many Germans are moving to the right is that voicing their uncomfortableness with the fact that e.g students who don't want to shake their teachers' hands because they are Muslim don't have to (against cultural norms and something that Switzerland ruled the opposite on this week), women have faced attacks from those coming from cultures where women are not respected as equals, etc. We Americans would have no problem bringing this up and are used to spirited debate, but here in Germany people are quickly labeled "right-wing" or "racist" when they voice what I view as ordinary concerns. This is really hard for me to grasp as an American, but there is such a concern of history that there is often censorship through political correctness. So they aren't heard and are marginalized, driving them then to the "real right". It may be hard to define what German culture really is, but this is why you see people protesting something small like the lack of pork being served... Why can't it be served and clearly labeled? Why does political correctness always have to win and why does their opinion not count? I really feel that if there were more room for honest debate and opinions to be aired without the fear or being labeled a racist (most aren't!) there would be far less support for such groups as AFD. There is growing support because people feel backed into a corner and don't see another option to be heard..
198
If Muslim students refuse to shake the hand of a female teacher they should immediately be deported to a Muslim country in the Middle East.
134
Let's not forget that many observant Jewish males would also refuse to shake hands with a female teacher.
21
I don't know who Bonn is except he is an American. My German relatives and friends in Germany are decidedly left by American standards. They are generally socialist and welcome the immigrants because for them it is the humane thing to do.
8
Funny I actually find the author's reasoning "extreme", there are real cultural differences between Germany & the Middle East. People would look at you crazy if you asked , "What is Japanese?". Yet evidently national or cultural identity is simply extreme to European liberals.
Germany is not a settler nation, for sure it's a relatively recent nation state but the underpinnings of that state go back nearly 2000 years. Ironically throughout that time it has had to deal with the specter of Islamic invasion. Who would have guessed the invasion would prove successful centuries later thanks to their guilt wracked descendants who don't believe their country & it's culture are worth defending?
Germany is not a settler nation, for sure it's a relatively recent nation state but the underpinnings of that state go back nearly 2000 years. Ironically throughout that time it has had to deal with the specter of Islamic invasion. Who would have guessed the invasion would prove successful centuries later thanks to their guilt wracked descendants who don't believe their country & it's culture are worth defending?
137
Germany is a stitched together entity made up of places where mother tongues range from French to Polish to Danish to Sorbish. Expecting uniformity of culture is a fool's errand
1
Well, Austria had to deal with Islamic invasion, and Austria is, in a sense, part of “Germany”—even legally so for a while in the fourth and fifth decades of the last century.
1
Does things? Like force women to walk around in a tent?
Does things? Like sexually assault hundreds of women on New Years Eve who *aren't* covered up, since they are "immodest" and "impure"??
Does things? Like attack infidels and blasphemers in subways, airports, Parisian cafes, and news offices?
Ms Sauerbrey's moral relativism is merely disgraceful capitulation to extremely regressive Islamic values that have no place in **ANY** Western society. It has nothing to do with preserving Germany's white and Christian heritage, and has everything to do with protecting Western principles of secularism, liberalism, and mutual tolerance.
And no "tolerance" of intolerant Islamic values is actually not "tolerance." It is *submission* to intolerant Islamic values.
Ms. Sauerbrey can harp on all she likes about implying that people who disagree with her are racists and xenophobes. But nobody is buying these cheap insults any longer.