In retrospect, we probably should have sided with the Corats and Serbs, and let them maintain a firewall of sorts against Saudi/Turkic ideological infiltration.
At least we can still learn from this one, namely that it's probably best to stay out of Syria and let Assad, Putin, and the Iranians blunt the Wahabbi rebels there.
And just as one Clinton led us into intervening on the Saudi's behalf in Kosovo, another Clinton now wants us to topple Assad, while her pals the Neocons from W's admin back her, and while her friend John Podesta and her successor and ally John Kerry backs the Saudis. I guess the lessons learned from Kosovo, Libya, Iraq, and Egypt haven't stuck with her.
Here's to hoping enough of the American electorate is watching all of this. Donald isn't the dangerous one.
At least we can still learn from this one, namely that it's probably best to stay out of Syria and let Assad, Putin, and the Iranians blunt the Wahabbi rebels there.
And just as one Clinton led us into intervening on the Saudi's behalf in Kosovo, another Clinton now wants us to topple Assad, while her pals the Neocons from W's admin back her, and while her friend John Podesta and her successor and ally John Kerry backs the Saudis. I guess the lessons learned from Kosovo, Libya, Iraq, and Egypt haven't stuck with her.
Here's to hoping enough of the American electorate is watching all of this. Donald isn't the dangerous one.
11
Being a Serb whose origins are Kosovo my opinions contrary to the preponderance of comments herein blaming Saudi Arabia. [Last two times I renewed my Passport - post 90s - State Department insisted that Country of Origin was my home town reasoning it would be too dangerous to say Kosovo much less Yugoslavia.]
Like it or not, the underlying problem existed before "American led
intervention wrested tiny Kosovo from Serbian oppression."
Contrary to what is twisted in the article "have transformed this once tolerant
Muslim society at the hem of Europe" it was a society equally populated by Slavs or Serbs who are orthodox. [Remember them? Serbs were the only group that DIDN't side with the Nazis or espouse there genocidal intents - sound familiar]
Although very young when my immediate family immigrated here I do recall - through a child's eyes - that we coexisted; mothers looked after their kids, we played -, and at times quarreled. So to put it in proper context it was the [victorious ally] Serbs who "tolerated" and allowed for the co-existence [unlike some of the other balkanized countries now].
Eaxecrbate maybe. But to claim that what's unfolding now is undue influence of Saudi Arabia/Wahhabism is ignoring history. It was not unforeseen - I argued this very point with young CNN reporter years ago - and essentially an expansion of Islamic secularism so pervasive throughout the region. No, then explain why my Orthodox family was forced/coerced out of Pristina?
Like it or not, the underlying problem existed before "American led
intervention wrested tiny Kosovo from Serbian oppression."
Contrary to what is twisted in the article "have transformed this once tolerant
Muslim society at the hem of Europe" it was a society equally populated by Slavs or Serbs who are orthodox. [Remember them? Serbs were the only group that DIDN't side with the Nazis or espouse there genocidal intents - sound familiar]
Although very young when my immediate family immigrated here I do recall - through a child's eyes - that we coexisted; mothers looked after their kids, we played -, and at times quarreled. So to put it in proper context it was the [victorious ally] Serbs who "tolerated" and allowed for the co-existence [unlike some of the other balkanized countries now].
Eaxecrbate maybe. But to claim that what's unfolding now is undue influence of Saudi Arabia/Wahhabism is ignoring history. It was not unforeseen - I argued this very point with young CNN reporter years ago - and essentially an expansion of Islamic secularism so pervasive throughout the region. No, then explain why my Orthodox family was forced/coerced out of Pristina?
10
Kosova was never equally populated with Serbs. Albanians have always been the majority there for centuries, if not from the beginning of times dating back to the Illyrians. Otherwise how did the Albanians maintain their majority since Serb occupation in 1912 after the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, even when faced with almost constant Serbian policies of ethnic cleansing and colonization?
You are right though, the blame on Saudi Arabia is exaggerated. I would argue great part of the blame lies with Serbia, for having kept Kosovar people from having access to high quality education for decades, including religious education. Then for destroying over 200 objects of Islamic heritage during the 98-99 war, thus necessitating the foreign aid Kosova needed to rebuild these institutions, and that was naturally offered by Islamic countries. I think part of the solution would be for Kosova and the international community to immediately declare that Serbia pay reparations for all war damages so Kosova can use these funds to continue rebuilding and not need Saudi aid any more. Also, and even better for the whole region, Serbia should finally accept the reality of an independent Kosova and thus allow the 5 remaining EU states to also recognize Kosova and enable this young country to finally improve its economy and give its young citizens hope for the future.
You are right though, the blame on Saudi Arabia is exaggerated. I would argue great part of the blame lies with Serbia, for having kept Kosovar people from having access to high quality education for decades, including religious education. Then for destroying over 200 objects of Islamic heritage during the 98-99 war, thus necessitating the foreign aid Kosova needed to rebuild these institutions, and that was naturally offered by Islamic countries. I think part of the solution would be for Kosova and the international community to immediately declare that Serbia pay reparations for all war damages so Kosova can use these funds to continue rebuilding and not need Saudi aid any more. Also, and even better for the whole region, Serbia should finally accept the reality of an independent Kosova and thus allow the 5 remaining EU states to also recognize Kosova and enable this young country to finally improve its economy and give its young citizens hope for the future.
1
This is such a sad development. I lived and worked in Kosovo for two years, but I haven't been back since 2010.
I heard a lot of talk about Wahhabists working in Pristina and other cities back then, but I never took in seriously because Kosovo was so pro American. The road from the airport is "Bill Clinton Blvd" and back then one of the overpasses was painted red, white and blue with a big "Welcome to Kosovo" in English. I was there when the statue of Bill Clinton in Pristina was unveiled. Kosovo was and largely still is a secular place.
That being said, Kosovo is also the perfect environment for Wahhabi missionaries. The average salary is around $250 a month. There is also a great mistrust of western organizations since the UN and EU have been a disappointment to the locals.
It's amazing how the Saudis can turn a place that was so firmly pro western and pro American. Really a cautionary tail. But how do we turn this around?
I heard a lot of talk about Wahhabists working in Pristina and other cities back then, but I never took in seriously because Kosovo was so pro American. The road from the airport is "Bill Clinton Blvd" and back then one of the overpasses was painted red, white and blue with a big "Welcome to Kosovo" in English. I was there when the statue of Bill Clinton in Pristina was unveiled. Kosovo was and largely still is a secular place.
That being said, Kosovo is also the perfect environment for Wahhabi missionaries. The average salary is around $250 a month. There is also a great mistrust of western organizations since the UN and EU have been a disappointment to the locals.
It's amazing how the Saudis can turn a place that was so firmly pro western and pro American. Really a cautionary tail. But how do we turn this around?
4
Kosova is and will remain pro-American. Nothing can change that. Religious extremist are and will remain a tiny minority there.
By reading interviews with some of the returned fighters from Syria it becomes apparent that many of them went there not out of hate for the West or for extreme religious beliefs, but rather to aid the noble struggle of the Syrian people in their fight for freedom from a brutal dictator. Kosovars know what that means as the memory of their fight for freedom from the Serbian dictator Milosevic is still very fresh, kept even fresher by Serbia's obstinate insistence in not normalizing relations with the young nation.
By reading interviews with some of the returned fighters from Syria it becomes apparent that many of them went there not out of hate for the West or for extreme religious beliefs, but rather to aid the noble struggle of the Syrian people in their fight for freedom from a brutal dictator. Kosovars know what that means as the memory of their fight for freedom from the Serbian dictator Milosevic is still very fresh, kept even fresher by Serbia's obstinate insistence in not normalizing relations with the young nation.
2
I say we give control back to the serbs, they're the only ones in the region--and Europe--who know how to deal with muslims. Unfortunately these are turkified albanians, in the balkans under 500 years of turkish occupation; not one male of any species was spared slaughter (humans, cows, dogs, sheep, chickens etc) in the occupied turkish territory, besides the high Albanian mountains which remain Roman Catholic. The turks brought males of every species to destroy the gene pool, and to this day the turks under Recep Tayip Erdogan and the ruling AKP party of turkey with their religious government bureau knows as the "Diyanet" are the puppet masters behind the Hashim Thacis, the Edi Ramas and the Denis Zvidics of the region. The saudis are given way too much credit for the rise of islamic extremism in this 'country' and the turks are deserving of a much closer look.
In a visit to Kosovo a few years back, Erdogan screamed out to a large crowd of Kosovara in The small city of Prizren: "Turkey is Kosovo, Kosovo is Turkey!!"
And all of this under the nose of The international KFOR "peace keeping" presence.
Back in the ottoman days, when turks converted the christains, they would say l, these new muslims may bot carry the faith in heir heart, but by allah they're grand children will be more faithful then the imams in mecca.
In a visit to Kosovo a few years back, Erdogan screamed out to a large crowd of Kosovara in The small city of Prizren: "Turkey is Kosovo, Kosovo is Turkey!!"
And all of this under the nose of The international KFOR "peace keeping" presence.
Back in the ottoman days, when turks converted the christains, they would say l, these new muslims may bot carry the faith in heir heart, but by allah they're grand children will be more faithful then the imams in mecca.
10
Ok, but there' a question that begs to be asked, and that's where the real story should be. How does this radical ideology get traction against an established liberal tradition? What is the attraction to extremism, or, perhaps even more cogently, why are people rejecting more tolerant interpretations? I don't believe it is all a matter of financial resources.
2
So why is Saudi Arabia considered an American "ally"? It seems that we have incredibly incompetent people running our government. America has made things easy for Islamic extremists. We funded them during the Soviet-Afghan war and now look the other way as the Saudis openly use their oil money to spread religious fanaticism.
4
Some context is warranted, lest we be accused of forgetting history.
Let me just remind all of you that by International law a.k.a. the key governing basis for any act of war the US (NATO) bombing of Kosovo was ILLEGAL. Why? There was no approved UN resolution prior to the bombing to legitimize the "intervention" in Kosovo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimacy_of_the_NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia
The word 'genocide' that was used in order to justify the bombing to the self-righteous (but nonetheless opportunistic in nature) Western conscience has been described by Noam Chomsky as an "insult to the victims of Hitler. In fact, it’s revisionist to an extreme." I invite anyone interested to open up any book or textbook of international law and to review the definition of genocide, and then compare it to the de facto forensic evidence on the ground. Massacres occurred on both sides, but genocide? More like self-justification. And then what about all the civilian casualties (Serbian) of the bombings?
Of course, these facts of history don't get much traction from Western media since it is that same media that skewed the portrayal of the ethnic Albanian 'refugees.' Just reference: http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/664472
Spread your one-sided democracy (technocracy) USA, but do not forget that for some that may mean Sharia law, Wahhabism etc. Fact: Al-Azhar did not condemn ISIS as non-Islamic. Because it isn't. For all of you talking about Islamophobia here...
Let me just remind all of you that by International law a.k.a. the key governing basis for any act of war the US (NATO) bombing of Kosovo was ILLEGAL. Why? There was no approved UN resolution prior to the bombing to legitimize the "intervention" in Kosovo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimacy_of_the_NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia
The word 'genocide' that was used in order to justify the bombing to the self-righteous (but nonetheless opportunistic in nature) Western conscience has been described by Noam Chomsky as an "insult to the victims of Hitler. In fact, it’s revisionist to an extreme." I invite anyone interested to open up any book or textbook of international law and to review the definition of genocide, and then compare it to the de facto forensic evidence on the ground. Massacres occurred on both sides, but genocide? More like self-justification. And then what about all the civilian casualties (Serbian) of the bombings?
Of course, these facts of history don't get much traction from Western media since it is that same media that skewed the portrayal of the ethnic Albanian 'refugees.' Just reference: http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/664472
Spread your one-sided democracy (technocracy) USA, but do not forget that for some that may mean Sharia law, Wahhabism etc. Fact: Al-Azhar did not condemn ISIS as non-Islamic. Because it isn't. For all of you talking about Islamophobia here...
9
I'm afraid this article doesn't do justice to the seriousness of the problem and it's impact and implications for Kosovar people.
First of all, I find it hard to understand why Ms. Gall would not quote or refer to the very authoritative study by the Kosovar Center for Security Studies titled "REPORT INQUIRING INTO THE CAUSES AND CONSEQUENCES OF KOSOVO CITIZENS’ INVOLVEMENT AS FOREIGN FIGHTERS IN SYRIA AND IRAQ" and published in April 2015. This study makes some very important observations and I encourage you all to read it, even though I don't fully agree with some of it's conclusions, such as advocating for a state takeover of the Muslim religious institutions in Kosovo.
Second, Ms. Gall should have also mentioned the very serious economic and political problems faced by Kosovo, which cannot by influence the high rate of volunteers to the Syria conflict, such as the very high youth unemployment, the extremely corrupt political elites, and the stalled process of international recognitions and normalization, especially within the EU where 5 members still don't recognize Kosova (Spain, Greece, Cyprus, Slovakia, and Romania) which has lead to a feeling of being trapped for Kosovar people, as they're the only Europeans who can't travel freely in Europe etc.
Third, it should also be mentioned that some misguided policies by Kosovar authorities have lead to Muslims feeling under attack there, such as the constant discrimination against students wearing headscarves from schools etc
First of all, I find it hard to understand why Ms. Gall would not quote or refer to the very authoritative study by the Kosovar Center for Security Studies titled "REPORT INQUIRING INTO THE CAUSES AND CONSEQUENCES OF KOSOVO CITIZENS’ INVOLVEMENT AS FOREIGN FIGHTERS IN SYRIA AND IRAQ" and published in April 2015. This study makes some very important observations and I encourage you all to read it, even though I don't fully agree with some of it's conclusions, such as advocating for a state takeover of the Muslim religious institutions in Kosovo.
Second, Ms. Gall should have also mentioned the very serious economic and political problems faced by Kosovo, which cannot by influence the high rate of volunteers to the Syria conflict, such as the very high youth unemployment, the extremely corrupt political elites, and the stalled process of international recognitions and normalization, especially within the EU where 5 members still don't recognize Kosova (Spain, Greece, Cyprus, Slovakia, and Romania) which has lead to a feeling of being trapped for Kosovar people, as they're the only Europeans who can't travel freely in Europe etc.
Third, it should also be mentioned that some misguided policies by Kosovar authorities have lead to Muslims feeling under attack there, such as the constant discrimination against students wearing headscarves from schools etc
2
And so our close friends the Saudis who's past leader was seen holding hands with a President Bush have to politically contend with an internal religious force that wake up thinking they are living in the 8th century.
The important question is, "How are the leaders of today's Saudi Arabia contending with militant Wahhabism?"
One can see from this article the answer is, NOT VERY WELL!
A government can turn a blind eye for only so long to political force that has the long range capacity to overthrow the country but in the mean time the Saudi family has to understand that by allowing Wahhabi and Salafi literature to disseminate from programs the government has signed off on, they are partially responsible for all the innocent lives due to murder-suicides and it is blood on the family, the country and it's people.
Certainly the Wahhabi fanatics of Saudi Arabia can be tortured, I mean, convinced to add a chapter in their teachings that says, "Killing the infidels!" is not allow in today's modern society.
If the Saudi family can not control this cancerous curse of Koran's approval of violence towards non-believers then ... HOUSTON! WE HAVE A PROBLEM.
The more the West knows about tacit approval by Saudi rulers of militant Wahhabism across the world the sooner the family will have to take action.
Hopefully the Saudi family is not too weak-knee'd.
The civilized world is depending on them.
The important question is, "How are the leaders of today's Saudi Arabia contending with militant Wahhabism?"
One can see from this article the answer is, NOT VERY WELL!
A government can turn a blind eye for only so long to political force that has the long range capacity to overthrow the country but in the mean time the Saudi family has to understand that by allowing Wahhabi and Salafi literature to disseminate from programs the government has signed off on, they are partially responsible for all the innocent lives due to murder-suicides and it is blood on the family, the country and it's people.
Certainly the Wahhabi fanatics of Saudi Arabia can be tortured, I mean, convinced to add a chapter in their teachings that says, "Killing the infidels!" is not allow in today's modern society.
If the Saudi family can not control this cancerous curse of Koran's approval of violence towards non-believers then ... HOUSTON! WE HAVE A PROBLEM.
The more the West knows about tacit approval by Saudi rulers of militant Wahhabism across the world the sooner the family will have to take action.
Hopefully the Saudi family is not too weak-knee'd.
The civilized world is depending on them.
7
It's a strange world history when a religion can hold whole communities of people hostage by fear around the entire globe. Islam has become a global tragedy, instead of a strength.
11
Are the saudis to smart for us ?
The make us allies against a war against moderate muslims.
They are proactively spreading their politics by religion, fostering hate and instability.
They utilize instability and economic mischief, creating a global refugee crisis, that is rocking us, while they take in zero refugees for themself.
Why we are so bad in countering this ?
For most muslims europe and the US is a sanctuary, the place of peace, freedom, stability and prosperity. We should emphasize our secular worldview. We should make this a criteria for staying in our roam, we should deport rigidly migrants who subvert our system. We should do a lot of fingerpointing - because there is hardly any muslim country that has severe problems.
Why are we so weak in this game while all the aces are in our hand ?
The make us allies against a war against moderate muslims.
They are proactively spreading their politics by religion, fostering hate and instability.
They utilize instability and economic mischief, creating a global refugee crisis, that is rocking us, while they take in zero refugees for themself.
Why we are so bad in countering this ?
For most muslims europe and the US is a sanctuary, the place of peace, freedom, stability and prosperity. We should emphasize our secular worldview. We should make this a criteria for staying in our roam, we should deport rigidly migrants who subvert our system. We should do a lot of fingerpointing - because there is hardly any muslim country that has severe problems.
Why are we so weak in this game while all the aces are in our hand ?
8
Disturbing report but this article should have been more careful using terms like "secular" and "Wahhabi" and especially the term "moderate Muslim" --vocabulary that is part of a particular western discourse that propagates some unhelpful assumptions and simplifications about "radicalization."
Though the writer is a well respected reporter, it is not clear that she is fully alert to the implications of her narrative choices.
Over 20 years ago Islamophobic "experts on Islam" began to claim that Saudi money was controlling the US Muslim community. This proved to be a wild overstatement. That said, it is fair to examine the spread of an ideological religious belief in the wake of wars and genocides.
Correctly understanding the appeal of a more militant posture and a more prescriptive, harsher set of religious interpretations is very important. While it is fair enough to "follow the Saudi money," understanding the social and cultural context is key. Countries around the world are under pressure from globalization, as well as conflict and displacement and demographic challenges.
This context is also key to understanding our own extremism in the USA, extending to the current presidential election. Without education in critical thinking, media literacy and civic engagement, a pluralistic democratic society will implode.
Though the writer is a well respected reporter, it is not clear that she is fully alert to the implications of her narrative choices.
Over 20 years ago Islamophobic "experts on Islam" began to claim that Saudi money was controlling the US Muslim community. This proved to be a wild overstatement. That said, it is fair to examine the spread of an ideological religious belief in the wake of wars and genocides.
Correctly understanding the appeal of a more militant posture and a more prescriptive, harsher set of religious interpretations is very important. While it is fair enough to "follow the Saudi money," understanding the social and cultural context is key. Countries around the world are under pressure from globalization, as well as conflict and displacement and demographic challenges.
This context is also key to understanding our own extremism in the USA, extending to the current presidential election. Without education in critical thinking, media literacy and civic engagement, a pluralistic democratic society will implode.
8
Albanians in Kosovo still adore USA and it`s politicians like Bill Clinton. Out of majority Serbian populated land with rich history, Albanians systematically killed and exiled Serbian population starting ww2, after Kosovo was made part of a Greater Albania by Hitler and Mussolini. They`ve destroyed 150 Monasteries and churches in 2000s. Macedonia has serious problem now, next is Montenegro, Greece. What happened in Podujevo is other way around, just well funded media by Soros and alike twist the reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-muKEjMVjuo
Those mentioned destroyed mosques were destroyed during NATO strikes. They are Muslims and as any other Muslim population now are reshaped to a hard-line radical version of Islam.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-muKEjMVjuo
Those mentioned destroyed mosques were destroyed during NATO strikes. They are Muslims and as any other Muslim population now are reshaped to a hard-line radical version of Islam.
12
Are you implying that it was NATO who bombed the Mosques (evidence?)?
It is quite to the contrary. Serbian Military targeted those buildings, including schools, and other civilian targets with the excuse that KLA was hiding there.
It is quite to the contrary. Serbian Military targeted those buildings, including schools, and other civilian targets with the excuse that KLA was hiding there.
1
Meanwhile, John Kerry continues his endless visits to Saudi Arbia to hold the clammy, blood-stained hands of their bogus "royals".
11
The best thing that could happen to Saudi Arabia is if the Egyptians, grossly overpopulated, marched across the desert and took it over. Then the money would help lift 100 million out of poverty. The Saudi kings have as much right to that money as any other Arab in the area. The fact they take no refugees is simply because they are selfish and do not want to share their bonanza with anyone. My guess is that if the world is still around in 50 years masses of starving Muslims will take Saudi Arabia over. Just as Europe cannot keep the masses of starving Muslims and Africans with their immense birth rate for long, sooner or later the masses will figure Saudi Arabia out.
8
Which POTUS candidate is cozy with the Saudis?
2
Saudi and gulf old states have large investments in US banking industries. Which candiate is closest to the banks?
2
I was in Kosovo for 18 months in 2011 and 2012 and have many friends still there. This is a typical story of a headline in search of reality. Most Kosovars, and I mean 99.9% don't care about "radical " Islam.
7
I don't care about ANY religion because I realized its stupidity by the time I was 10 years old. But, that doesn't mean my life won't be affected by radical religious people in some way.
3
I don't believe the writer said that all Kosovar Muslims were interested in Wahabism or radicalism. The moderate Muslims are the ones most destroyed by extremism and civil war.
Most Kosovars are quite secular when it comes to religion. Unfortunately the high levels of unemployment and government corruption have made it possible for those "humanitarian" organizations to brainwash people. They started by paying people to go to their mosques and follow their propaganda. And unfortunately some of those who did go, bought into it.
I saw first hand in 1999 Saudi influence in hospitals, orphanages, schools, and of course Mosques. It was extremely disturbing then and continues to be chilling across the Muslim world today.
12
Simply put, the problem is Saudi Arabia. The US has greatly underrated the actions of this country (or kingdom)l. We have been quite foolish.
14
CG gives the reader some idea of the depravity of the Serbian Despots – “218 Mosques were part of their war against Kosova(rs)”. Since what CG is describing was the third phase of the holocaust (erasing Islam from Serbia), the first two phases were: Mistreatment of Muslims under the Royal Orthodoxy, and then under the Communists. Three phase of attempts to erase Islam from Serbia, followed by a short-lived phase of subdued and “state-encouraged-Imams”, like Mr Bilalli, who might have been trained in Medina.
Islam is a religion of an OPEN MINDED FREE PEOPLE, no amount of proselytizing is likely to work on a majority of them. The only divisions that have been created are the direct result of America proselytizing a religion of “unbridled greed”, and the imposition of alien values on Muslim peoples.
After 200 years of false philosophies, Kosovars are now being brought back to the main stream of Islam. Why does CG and her masters have problem with that?
Islam is a religion of an OPEN MINDED FREE PEOPLE, no amount of proselytizing is likely to work on a majority of them. The only divisions that have been created are the direct result of America proselytizing a religion of “unbridled greed”, and the imposition of alien values on Muslim peoples.
After 200 years of false philosophies, Kosovars are now being brought back to the main stream of Islam. Why does CG and her masters have problem with that?
1
I'm not so sure you understand the extent of your words. If fundamentalist Islam is made up of killing (political) infidels, the end of free speech (and the loss of women's suffrage), and a caliphate, then it's no good. I respect your own religious ideals, but there's a cost measured in lives.
5
As long as they control their puppets in the West: Bushes, Clintons, Cameron et al, and the western media work for them, this will continue
7
Interesting how this front page print story in Sunday Times is buried and does not come up in Google news world section, or with a search of Saudi.
Probably a little algorithm tweak for friends in Riyadh, or Podesta/Edelman Saudi PR men.
Probably a little algorithm tweak for friends in Riyadh, or Podesta/Edelman Saudi PR men.
9
The conflict in Kosovo in the 1990s divided the Arab and Muslim world, and their sympathies were with the Muslim Kosovo Albanians, when Serbin forces launched a campaign of ethnic cleansing. Kosovo is an impoverished land, and Saudi Arabia was among the first to recognise its independence in 2008. Soon after, Prime Minister Hashim Thaçi and the leadership flew to Saudi Arabia and were received by King Abdullah, who promised to help develop Kosovo's economic potential. Thaçi was most flattered by the king's reception, and thanked his host for aiding Kosovo and its people in the most difficult times. After the war Saudi Arabia helped rebuild schools, health centres and mosques destroyed during the fighting. Thanks to Saudi ties Kosovo has been able to gain support from other Arab Gulf countries.
The Kosovo population welcomed Saudi largesse, and raised no question when the the kingdom sought to indoctrinate a new generation in Wahhabism. In recent years ISIS has been taking advantage of the economic malaise and ethnic tensions in Bosnia and Kosovo between the Serbs and their former subjects to open up new terror front in heart of Europe.
The Kosovo population welcomed Saudi largesse, and raised no question when the the kingdom sought to indoctrinate a new generation in Wahhabism. In recent years ISIS has been taking advantage of the economic malaise and ethnic tensions in Bosnia and Kosovo between the Serbs and their former subjects to open up new terror front in heart of Europe.
12
please read: Hashim Thaçi and his deputy flew to Saudi Arabia.....
4
Saudi Arabia actually recognized Kosovo only a year after it's independence, circa April 2009
1
Who cares? Both sides are still archaic believes that doesn't jive with modernity. Whereas Europe and East Asia moves toward atheism, agnostism and humanism, Muslim countries are still fighting for who represents the words of their god. The so call moderate is appealing to the West for money because they see their influence weakens by the other side. The moderate aren't going to use the money given to them to teach math, science, history, critical thinking, they are using the money to spread their form of Islam. Frankly I don't see much difference between forcing women to wear veil and stoning women for looking at other men, both are oppressive nonsense I wouldn't support no matter which is the lessor of two evils.
15
Agreed. For one thing, it's hopefully making people in the saner parts of the world a lot more secular.
3
My oh my how quickly this story went from being a big splashy banner across my screen to just another two-line link at the bottom of the page! When did you get the call?
6
! Case. In. Point. And then we talk about democracy & freedom of speech. But thats ok by their agenda, we're just talking... whilst the machine keeps rolling and rolling.
Even the name of Kosovo (kos- black bird) is Serbian word!
7
The author is a known Anti-Muslim pseudo-journalist. If trouble seems to be abetting in any part of the Muslim World, CG heads that way to roil the situation. While ostensibly trying to expose the underhandedness of Muslim extremists she is herself working for the CIA, Homeland Security, American Forces occupying Afghania, etc. She is there as embedded, or under protection or under contract to the Propaganda Department, of those suppressing Muslim people.
The foot solders of American wars against Islam are trying to GIVE their own meaning to the noblest of the Islamic DEEDS, JIHAD: FIGHT AGAINST EVIL. As America and its foot solders wish to degrade Islam, they are a PILLAR OF THE ISLAMIC FAITH and trying to assign evil to it. Shame on the NYT, permitting such attacks on Muslim values and traditions; 15 million of them America Muslim people. Yes, Miss Gall, I am waging a jihad against the bad-mouthing of a pillar of Islam: Jihad fi-sabil-illah
The foot solders of American wars against Islam are trying to GIVE their own meaning to the noblest of the Islamic DEEDS, JIHAD: FIGHT AGAINST EVIL. As America and its foot solders wish to degrade Islam, they are a PILLAR OF THE ISLAMIC FAITH and trying to assign evil to it. Shame on the NYT, permitting such attacks on Muslim values and traditions; 15 million of them America Muslim people. Yes, Miss Gall, I am waging a jihad against the bad-mouthing of a pillar of Islam: Jihad fi-sabil-illah
1
Wow great. However please tells us the facts based on your statement "she is ------- working for the CIA, Homeland Security, American Forces occupying Afghanistan etc" Also please describe the "Propaganda Department of those suppressing Muslin people." Thanks: look forward to your reply.
10
Here is the correct way to handle your religion, no matter what religion it may be: Keep your religion on your property and keep it quiet. No barking or biting. If you do this, everyone will be happy. As I said, this is the correct way - the only correct way.
6
Dude... no one cares of what you believe in... until that affects us. We (Albanians in Kosovo) have our own Islamic/Christian and above ALL Albanian traditions and values and it is the dirty Saudi money that have taken advantage of the situation to indoctrinate our youth. And try to convert them to the hateful/dirty version of Islam that they believe in. Stay away from the Balkans... PERIOD.
4
The Saudi Arabian government at its highest levels does not want to destabilize the West but the vast majority of Saudi citizens, who adhere to the Wahhabi strain, believe they have a holy mission to cleanse the world of evil. Evil, as they define it, is anyone who doesn't think exactly like them and you confront and destroy evil and all who refuse to follow God's law. To a certain extent the more radical Mullahs of Iran feel the same way except they are Shia. Why is this so popular in the developing world? People don't like to think and change that modernization brings is hard. Discontent with modern society has been around since the beginning. Saudi funded Wahhabism is spreading throughout the region (Africa/Asia) and is a push back to modernity (current day Luddites with a coherent radical, apocalyptic religion) and will be ultimately just as unsuccessful.
Now the question is why all the anti-Saudi pieces lately? The Saudis have been doing this for the last 40 years. Radicalization, while a problem, is manageable. Most people aren't nuts and they like shiny things . The amount of money mentioned in the article isn't a tremendous amount. The numbers aren't all that significant either. This really isn't a threat. So why are we now hearing about it more and more in popular media? There is this idea we have to fight the radical Muslim jihadists before they take over. The demonization of the other, Muslims, is proceeding apace.
Now the question is why all the anti-Saudi pieces lately? The Saudis have been doing this for the last 40 years. Radicalization, while a problem, is manageable. Most people aren't nuts and they like shiny things . The amount of money mentioned in the article isn't a tremendous amount. The numbers aren't all that significant either. This really isn't a threat. So why are we now hearing about it more and more in popular media? There is this idea we have to fight the radical Muslim jihadists before they take over. The demonization of the other, Muslims, is proceeding apace.
5
How do you know the motivations of the "vast majority of Saudi citizens?" Do you not realize Wahabbism is foreign even to Western Saudi Arabia? And that Makkah is actually relatively liberal as a result of contact with foreign Hajj pilgrims for centuries? Same with Jeddah and Madina.
1
As a Muslim African-American citizen, Imam, and author of the book "We Fundamentalists," indeed, such governmental media ideological propaganda has no shame these days! Yes, I am one of those "Wahhabi" who had went to Saudi Arabia to study Islam and Arabic thanks to King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia and Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia Sheikh Abd Al-Aziz Abd Allah ibn Baaz may Allah bless them! Yes, the hard inconvenient truth is that faith and justice are not always neighbors in this era of times! Not everybody is going to play by the simple rules of respect and tolerance! Presently, America and Western secular nations (Europe) are undergoing a religious tinderbox of words and libelous images of hate between civilizations that is Islamic in their constitutions which cannot be allowed to continue for the sake of human dignity and peace! The trend by that is now before us all is this hype media of ignorance and arrogance! Indeed, the way people look speak and read about each other must be a positive one foe the benefit of all mankind! It`s how we view and react to strange ideological beliefs outside of our own will be crucial to the future prospect of humanity here on earth! It is of no surprise that ignorance is a great problem! So, "Al-Wahhabi" means Allah is the bestower of all things! And "Wahhabi" means one who receive it!
"The entrance to the grounds of the Serbian Orthodox monastery in Decani in western Kosovo. In January, four armed Islamists passed through the checkpoint and were arrested at the monastery gates"
Please, even our tendencious medias have reported it better. It's strange how you clasiffy these names "armed Islamists"?
NYT Frontpage for a country wich has the most people fighting in Syria? Normally man, we are 96 % muslims, so for sure Italy with only 11 mosques in the whole country, won't make the first country.
Please, don't kill journalism with tendencious framing of the events!
Please, even our tendencious medias have reported it better. It's strange how you clasiffy these names "armed Islamists"?
NYT Frontpage for a country wich has the most people fighting in Syria? Normally man, we are 96 % muslims, so for sure Italy with only 11 mosques in the whole country, won't make the first country.
Please, don't kill journalism with tendencious framing of the events!
1
In a move to bottle up Russia we bombed Serbia until they relinquished Kosovo. Quickly Kosovo became a criminal Muslim state, no longer needing to get along with its' Russian orthodox neighbors. Within time the state became more influenced by the Saudis and its fundamental religion. Now a time bomb, the result of US/Saudi imperial world designs. Saudi oil fuels our military overreach. Partners in crime.
19
Which of Kosovo's neighbors is "Russian Orthodox?"
1
Montenegro, Serbia, Macedonia
1
Our 'friends' the corrupt medieval empire of Saudi Arabia. I won't weep for them when they are finally overthrown by the monsters they unleashed on the rest of the world.
17
Islam is still a very backwards religion. The other, more mature ones, Christianity, Judaism, Hindu, etc learned a long time ago that killing and destroying in the name of a religion is a bad thing. There are no winners, only losers. So, as long as the this mentality is state sponsored, Islam will never change. And, as long as the West stays addicted to petroleum, the West will continue to be attacked with the resulting death toll and destruction.
8
Maybe after close to 20 years of exposure to depleted uranium and sharp increase in aggressive carcinoma (caused by NATO bombings in 1999) Kosovo Albanians changes their heart and realized that NATO and Americans are not such friends as they initially thought.
But I have question for NYT. In 1999 at the beginning of NATO war with Serbia there were countless articles accusing Slobodan Milosevic of ethnic cleansing and expulsion of two million Albanians from Kosovo. But why then this article is saying that there is 1.8 million people total in Kosovo? I was educated in Serbia and math is highly regarded subject to me.
But I have question for NYT. In 1999 at the beginning of NATO war with Serbia there were countless articles accusing Slobodan Milosevic of ethnic cleansing and expulsion of two million Albanians from Kosovo. But why then this article is saying that there is 1.8 million people total in Kosovo? I was educated in Serbia and math is highly regarded subject to me.
11
Kosova Albanians will never have a change of hearts about Usa or Nato. KOSOVA will always be thankful to GB,USA and NATO for they brought freedom to Kosovan people and stopped the killing of innocent people. The truth is they made the most aggressive carcinoma disappear from Kosova which is of course milosevic and his followers.
I was born in Kosova and every country that protected Albanian children and people from serbian killers and ethnic cleansing are appreciated by Albanians from KOSOVA.
As for your serbian education and maths you have to work out why do you live in US. Do your own maths.
As for your maths
I was born in Kosova and every country that protected Albanian children and people from serbian killers and ethnic cleansing are appreciated by Albanians from KOSOVA.
As for your serbian education and maths you have to work out why do you live in US. Do your own maths.
As for your maths
2
Saudi Money financed many Jihadist wars from Yougoslavia to Chechnya, 9/11 or the Boston pressure cooker bombers.
Why can they do this without punishment ?
Because the Saudis have bought the elite of Europe and America.
In the presidential election, you have a choice to continue this nasty system or not.
Why can they do this without punishment ?
Because the Saudis have bought the elite of Europe and America.
In the presidential election, you have a choice to continue this nasty system or not.
14
How do I " in the presidential election have a choice to continue this nasty system or not" ? Please tell me.
1
maybe it's time to tell the Saudis if the jihadists strike the US again we'll send cruise missiles their way.
7
Oh, come on!
It's Iran that's the problem.
Saudi Arabia is our friend.
Like Pakistan.
Like Israel.
These are friends we can rely on.
These are friends who always have our interests at heart.
They're, well, just plain really good.
Let's be nice to them.
Wait a minute, we are, we're being really nice to them.
Then what are they doing to us?
Do we need to wake up?
It's Iran that's the problem.
Saudi Arabia is our friend.
Like Pakistan.
Like Israel.
These are friends we can rely on.
These are friends who always have our interests at heart.
They're, well, just plain really good.
Let's be nice to them.
Wait a minute, we are, we're being really nice to them.
Then what are they doing to us?
Do we need to wake up?
15
Unfortunately, the same kind of investigation could be done in other european countries, like Belgium, Netherlands or France.
6
Oh, the Saudi's, old family friends of the Bushes from the oil days... is this a surprise?
16
..and the Clinton Foundation
8
The real question is who supports these terrorists and who funds them? We do. Every car trip we take, every happy meal our kids consume, every article of clothing we wear. 20% of the world's energy comes out of the Gulf of Hormuz. Our modern, industrial, interconnected society demands it and we demand low energy costs. President Carter implored us to lower our energy consumption and we ditched him. We are seeing the consequences from our own action. Two basic options lie before us: continue our energy consumption patterns and deal with low level jihadists blowing themselves up periodically or change the way we live. Quit whining and understand the world and human nature.
32
Or use more nuclear power.
2
No question in my mind that President Carter and so many other like-minded folks such as yourself are correct, and for multiple reasons. However, I'm not quite ready to move to the conclusion that terrorism would go away were energy independence to be accomplished. I have not yet seen an analysis by highly credible persons showing that in all likelihood we would be rid of terrorism if and when we get rid of this sick dependency on oil mid-east importing. I think that the problem of terrorism is a lot broader than you imply.
2
Or drill here now. Frack, etc. Very simple.
2
One wonders Is it time to criminalize Saudi and proxy funding worldwide? Given the benevolent views tied to moneyed interests in the US (Bush etc) I'm sceptical...
No, I'm not a 50 cent poster operating from Moscow nor Beijing, just a pragmatist...
No, I'm not a 50 cent poster operating from Moscow nor Beijing, just a pragmatist...
8
The Saudis have promulgated their uncompromising, intolerant faith for decades and have succeeded in undermining more open Muslim cultures globally. Their efforts are pretty insidious. I was once stunned to read to read an article promoting the "The Protocols of the Elder of Zion" as gospel in a Chinese language newspaper here in NYC. The article was provided by the Saudi Ministry of Cultural Affairs.
18
I say this as a severe critic of Russia under Putin, but just maybe Russian objections were spot on?
4
Saudi Arabia is essentially a Sopranos type royal family supporting - with our petro dollars - an extremely violent ideology. We - the United States - are their accomplices and its high time that we stop them, period. 9 11 was brought about by the Saudis, not Iraq. We invaded the wrong country and we allowed this vicious form of exported terror and violence to continue and infect the rest of the world. All Americans should support the Saudi exception to the Foreign Sovereign Immunity Act making its way through Congress at the moment to assist the families of the 9 11 victims. America should slow its arms sales to the Saudis, warn them very carefully that if they continue their violent ways that we will turn them into another American territory - these monsters need caging before they get their hands on a nuclear weapon which they are already planning to buy on the open market. America - want to know who your enemy is? Well, you just found out.
62
More and more reasons to starve the Saudis. Can someone tell me why we're still in bed with these people?
4
The best way to hurt our fossil fuel producing enemies (Iran, Saudia Arabia, other Arab countries, Russia, Venezuela, etc.) is to reduce or eliminate our use of fossil fuels . Get a hybrid or electric vehicle. Install solar panels. By energy efficient products. Yes, the US is a major oil and gas producer, but we are part of a global economy. Reducing the use of fossil fuels affects the price of these fuels globally. Stop funding our enemies.
12
Clinton ca be forgiven for waging war to help the Muslims because of ignorance but no more. Anyone who doesn't know what the words Dhimmi and Jizya mean should not be allowed to hold office.
8
Well, that would definitely narrow the field down :-)
4
Yes, including me
3
That reads as if the Serbians were right. Now on the other hand we've got another monster breeding ground for terror, which is about to become member in both circles the EU and NATO.
Politics became exceptionally ridiculous. No wonder the populists win everywhere.
Politics became exceptionally ridiculous. No wonder the populists win everywhere.
11
The Serbians were not right. The Serbians are the most egocentric and xenophobic people on earth. Some 3 years ago I was in Belgrade. For my Friday prayers I sought a Mosque. Finally I located one. It was totally inadequate for the size of the assembly. Talking to the fellow congregants, I found that that the State is refusing the grant Building permit for mosques. Muslims constitute more than 5 % of the total population , but are not allowed to build Mosques. No wonder Kosovars sought an exit.
2
Go to Kosovo and pray there for better support. After all we been through one mosque in Belgrade is plenty.
7
Well, how about you go to Saudi Arabia for a religiously correct prayer? When I as a Christian want to pray in Saudi Arabia, or just bring a bible to read a little in it they hang me on the next construction crane.
Maybe the Serbians simply learned their lesson when it comes to the religion of pieces.
But the most xenophobic and hate filled people on earth still is the one currently populating Arabia. Not sure, if that will go on for too long.
Maybe the Serbians simply learned their lesson when it comes to the religion of pieces.
But the most xenophobic and hate filled people on earth still is the one currently populating Arabia. Not sure, if that will go on for too long.
2
I recall Anne Coulter once said that we should march into the Middle East and forcibly convert those people, and every body here ridiculed her. Now please tell us what these royal friends of ours in Saudi Arabia have been doing other than trying to sabotage us and undermine our position everywhere in the world. Yes, come to think of of it, they have also been doing another thing side by side, buying silence of our politicians with hefty contributions to their favorite charities, libraries and lucrative contracts to their friends. I'm really sick sick of our corrupt politicians and the double dealing Saudis. It's time to hang them by the rope we have allowed them thus far.
20
Well said. GWB would still be a drinker and loser if the Saudis had not sold him oils for millions and for a steep discount.
5
Forcibly convert them to what? Replacing one organised delusion with another is not going to fix things. It would be like an addict trying to get over their heroine addiction by getting hooked on cocaine.
1
That was already tried.
1
Wahabism flourished as an ideology a client state could adopt to justify waging war against its patron- when the regional hegemon, itself, claims a caliph (as with the Ottomans) and the competing aspirants to regional hegemon claim patrilineal descent from the Prophet (the Hashemites), you need an extreme brand of Takfirism to wage holy war against their competing claims at holy authority. Sir Thomas Philby must have seen the fascistic anti-modernist bent as an upside when he diverted British support from the Hashemites to the Wahhabists, but the result is a Saudi state which is itself a fairly loyal security client yet whose legitimacy rests on a Wahabbist religious order which constitutionally rejects its client-statehood and yet is too fascistic and anti-modern to claim the hegemony to which it clearly aspires. And when you read this article, where you learn 7% of an orphan charity is actually spent on orphans, you realize finally that this order's fascistic and anti-western aspects are probably favored by its staff for the simple reason it gives the religious order the most power and money over the society it infects. When you look at the balance of power between Sunnis and Shiites in the middle east today, you realize it may very well kill its host. Sad.
11
For me, it looks as if by now the British have become the clients, while the Saudis have adopted the role of the masters.
And if you analyze why, it is simple: the Saudis know how to save money, while the British and the other Euros are deeply indebted. It is easy to bribe a person who is both indebted and has no moral coordinate system any more.
And if you analyze why, it is simple: the Saudis know how to save money, while the British and the other Euros are deeply indebted. It is easy to bribe a person who is both indebted and has no moral coordinate system any more.
3
We all know the Saudi's have been funding groups to extend their Wahabiist philosophy, but blaming them as the sole cause of Islamic extremism is ridiculous. Saudi's may have provided the money but that doesn't fully explain why so many Muslims all over the world are so attracted to groups like ISIS and other extremist groups. Are Muslims as a group so gullible to be taken in by such extremist rhetoric and philosophy even if the Saudi's provided the money. Don't they have the power of independent and logical thinking to know what is right and wrong and live peacefully with others, and that terrorism is not a solution to their problems. They have to examine themselves as a community why so many among them are self-destructive. The self pity we are the victims too will not work any longer. Not in this political climate. And I consider myself a left liberal.
10
As long as the U.S. and the U.K. don't reign into this menace, it will only continue.
Maybe at one point the Russians will be fed up, but they have not shown any real resolve so far. Russia has a lot of problems themselves and does not want to fall in another trap.
Maybe at one point the Russians will be fed up, but they have not shown any real resolve so far. Russia has a lot of problems themselves and does not want to fall in another trap.
2
They, the Muslims so easily led to extremism, have much in common with those who believe Trump will make America great, and for similar reasons.
4
"the Muslims so easily led to extremism, have much in common with those who believe Trump will make America great"
Exactly.
Exactly.
3
This is so tragic with true absurdity for consumers of Saudi oil, and I rhetorically ask if Milosevic's genocidal behavior in the 1990's is perhaps partly attributed as response to his Muslim neighbors' increasing religious extremism as our unleaded fill-ups subsidized indoctrinating the students who were seemingly assuming power(?).
3
I think it's potentially problematic to start looking at radicalization and raise a question like did Milosevic do what he did as a response to radical Islam. The point of the article was that there was not radicalization prior to an independent Kosova and the influx of money and proselytizing from Arab states . Serbia waged war against people who had a tolerant view of Islam--I think it's important to remember that and not blur the line and diminish the atrocities that happened.
4
Bingo. Milosevic fell into a trap set up by the Turkish and the Saudis. Roughly speaking, they repeated the trick they did in Afghanistan.
5
Tito apparently held (hammered) them together for years. Did anything new catalyze traditional animus as Yugoslavia seemingly "reverted to re-balkanization." I'm admittedly semi ignorant & speculating.
The article covers the problem with extremism and terrorism that Kosova shares with most of the world. However along the lines it seems to want to paint the picture that Kosova is not a pro US country. That is completely inaccurate. This inaccuracy is evident when there is a vague referral to unresearched and unbased events, such as the case of the alledged bulldozed library in Gjakova. When did that ever happen?
8
Dude, you seem like fresh out of MFA. Are you one of MFA employees? Did you read the article? Ever since it was published this is what people from the MFA have been saying that we are portrayed as anti-American. Read the article, then reassess your comment. I'm sure you'd be surprised.
Thanks for the advice Beni. I was blind but can now see !!
I suggest you read Kosova history in your leisure time as well. Seems like you might need some refreshing. I hope it s that, cause spinal cord replacement won t be out for another century or so.
I suggest you read Kosova history in your leisure time as well. Seems like you might need some refreshing. I hope it s that, cause spinal cord replacement won t be out for another century or so.
Freedom of religion is a European concept based on a history of violence and antagonism amongst religious sects. As a principle of governance it is highly pragmatic, so long as the sects have their origins within Europe and its people.
The situation here is different. The Saudi royals are the leading sponsors of Wahhabism, and the net effect is to export violence that would otherwise be turned against themselves.
The issue here is not one of freedom to worship, but the freedom of a hostile power to recruit mercenaries. This must be seen and dealt with appropriately.
The situation here is different. The Saudi royals are the leading sponsors of Wahhabism, and the net effect is to export violence that would otherwise be turned against themselves.
The issue here is not one of freedom to worship, but the freedom of a hostile power to recruit mercenaries. This must be seen and dealt with appropriately.
67
GC, you forget that people from India and East Asia do integrate well and treat the original inhabitants of Europe and America with respect. Tolerance did not begin in Europe.
1
What they propagate is much more than a religion. Rather, it is an absolutist and violent political ideology with religious features.
6
"Freedom of religion is a European concept "
300 years before Jesus, King Ashoka of India had stone carvings all over the country advocating tolerance towards all religions.
"Ashoka actively sought to end animal sacrifice and encourage vegetarianism in accordance with his new philosophy. He endorsed tolerance of diversity, religious exchange, and prosperity under compliance with dharma throughout his empire."
http://historyofinformation.tumblr.com/post/43114151940/rock-edicts-and-...
I am really just fed up with European arrogance. Could you guys learn a little history?
300 years before Jesus, King Ashoka of India had stone carvings all over the country advocating tolerance towards all religions.
"Ashoka actively sought to end animal sacrifice and encourage vegetarianism in accordance with his new philosophy. He endorsed tolerance of diversity, religious exchange, and prosperity under compliance with dharma throughout his empire."
http://historyofinformation.tumblr.com/post/43114151940/rock-edicts-and-...
I am really just fed up with European arrogance. Could you guys learn a little history?
2
So when is the next war with the Serbs?
12
Almost anywhere where violence has been perpetrated, or is being perpetrated, in the name of Islam, Wahhabism's bloody fingerprints are present. It is a dangerous cult that lurks within and perverts one of the world's major religions. Western governments including the US government, know this, but have failed to stop its corrosive influence because of (1) our dependence on oil, and (2) the political influence of multi-national corporations and that want to prolong that dependence.
The US government treats Saudi Arabia, the home of Wahhabism, as an ally. We do this despite the knowledge that Saudi Arabia's government is, at worst, complicit in the active promotion of terrorism by some citizens or, at best, unwilling to stop their promotion of violence.
As a first step in stopping this dangerous charade, President Obama needs to release the 28 pages of the 911 Commission Report that were withheld from the US public -- presumably in order to maintain the pretense that Saudi Arabia is a US ally. Politicians in both political parties will then need to summon the courage to tell their patrons in the oil industry that the USA is done propping up the economies of countries like Saudi Arabia that finance and promote global terrorism. We've stalled long enough on making it a national priority to end our dependence on oil. Forget the question of whether global warming does/does not exist. There's no question that terrorism exists and that oil money supports it.
The US government treats Saudi Arabia, the home of Wahhabism, as an ally. We do this despite the knowledge that Saudi Arabia's government is, at worst, complicit in the active promotion of terrorism by some citizens or, at best, unwilling to stop their promotion of violence.
As a first step in stopping this dangerous charade, President Obama needs to release the 28 pages of the 911 Commission Report that were withheld from the US public -- presumably in order to maintain the pretense that Saudi Arabia is a US ally. Politicians in both political parties will then need to summon the courage to tell their patrons in the oil industry that the USA is done propping up the economies of countries like Saudi Arabia that finance and promote global terrorism. We've stalled long enough on making it a national priority to end our dependence on oil. Forget the question of whether global warming does/does not exist. There's no question that terrorism exists and that oil money supports it.
25
Easier said than done. The Saudis are solvent while America and Europe are deeply indebted. He who has the money calls the shots...
3
Your information is completely out of date. Saudi Arabia is broke. The reason we are reading this kind of article (and the "28 pages" will soon be declassified) is that they no longer have the clout to prevent it from being published.
5
The whole world has seen and known about Saudi Arabia's sinister hand behind the Sunni hatred and intolerance of non-Muslims throughout the world. The Saudis, citizens and royals, have funded Madrassas in Pakistan that are churning factories for Jihad. The Saudi money has helped the buying of poor families' kids in Pakistan for $3K-$4K to send them out on suicidal missions. In India the Saudis do the same thing to incite Muslims against the over 80 percent Hindu majority. The Saudi employers routinely abuse their power of the purse to convert foreign non-Muslim labor to their faith. Their text books hold out before them the key to paradise if they convert a non-Muslim. I believe time has come to read the riot act to their backstabbing royals that their game of double cross is over. Either they straighten up on their own, or we will straighten them out by leaving them on their own. If the royals can keep their Salaffi clerics on the leash against their own rule, they surely can shut mullahs' funds and tantrums against the non-Muslim world.
32
I suggest it is not merely non-Muslims, the Wahhabists are intolerant of other Muslims.
When we conflate all Muslims as Wahhabists we doom ourselves to repeating the mistake of supporting the Saudis.
When we conflate all Muslims as Wahhabists we doom ourselves to repeating the mistake of supporting the Saudis.
8
So far they doublecross propaganda combined with their deep pockets has made them pretty much invulnerable.
Just look at what happened during 9/11. Saddam Hussein, an Arab nationalist and socialist, was crucified for what Saudis had done !
PS: Iraq was an enlightened country as opposed to the present state of Gulf Sheikdoms.
Just look at what happened during 9/11. Saddam Hussein, an Arab nationalist and socialist, was crucified for what Saudis had done !
PS: Iraq was an enlightened country as opposed to the present state of Gulf Sheikdoms.
5
" once-tolerant Muslim society"
Really? This could be only in dreamland - a "reality" that never existed. Kosovo was and is a historical heartland of Serbia infiltrated and occupied for centuries by invaders. It was predominantly Christian till the communists allowed uncontrolled immigration from Albania into Serbia resulting in expulsion of Christians.
Today it became just another failed experiment in "nation building" at the high cost for US taxpayers to maintain until it falls into foreseeable catastrophe at even higher cost for everyone in the region.
Moral of the story that elites in US did not learn - do not try to fix something that you don't even understand.
Really? This could be only in dreamland - a "reality" that never existed. Kosovo was and is a historical heartland of Serbia infiltrated and occupied for centuries by invaders. It was predominantly Christian till the communists allowed uncontrolled immigration from Albania into Serbia resulting in expulsion of Christians.
Today it became just another failed experiment in "nation building" at the high cost for US taxpayers to maintain until it falls into foreseeable catastrophe at even higher cost for everyone in the region.
Moral of the story that elites in US did not learn - do not try to fix something that you don't even understand.
51
You should probably learn the history of the Balkans before you make comments. That land was Illyrian/Albanian when the Slavic invasion happened which brought the Serbians.
12
@Frank - "The land was Illyrian/Albanian when The Slavic invasion happened" - and you say that Bob should learn history.. I hope it's not history that you learned. There is no evidence that Albanians are descendants of Illyrians, none. What we do have is Kosovo, Serbian word by the way, that is littered by Serbian monuments, churches, graveyards and so forth. Now where are all these Albanian examples of history in Kosovo? Can you show us links that confirm Albanians/Illyrians link? Please don't try to sell as a sob story how Serbs came and took/destroyed Albanian history as that makes no sense. how can invader come and build an entire society and many monuments but also erase all evidence of previous civization, but not erase the majority population itself? Go read what was done to Serbs in Kosovo in wwii, see how many Serbs lived there at that time and how many love today. There is Kosovo demographic page that mentions historical record and if my English comprehension skills are intact, Serbs used to be majority in a lot of places of not in most of Kosovo.
7
Hear, hear !!!
1
The Saudis have played us for years as fools.
This administration had a chance with Marcellus and Utica shale fracking to make us totally independent of Saudi oil. Instead, the President's advisors pushed him to go "green," and thus the US right back into OPEC dependency.
What a missed opportunity.
This administration had a chance with Marcellus and Utica shale fracking to make us totally independent of Saudi oil. Instead, the President's advisors pushed him to go "green," and thus the US right back into OPEC dependency.
What a missed opportunity.
10
Maybe some donations helped in the persuasion process ?
1
In 1978, I worked in an office building that was a federally funded test site for solar energy. Unfortunately, the funding for that very promising project -- and for a lot of other very promising alternative energy projects funded by the Carter administration -- ended abruptly in 1980 when Ronald Reagan took office.
The blame for our continued dependency on Middle Eastern oil does not lie with the current administration and has little to do with fracking. It has to do with the failure of every president between 1980 and 2008 to make energy independence -- and reduced oil consumption -- a true national security priority.
The blame for our continued dependency on Middle Eastern oil does not lie with the current administration and has little to do with fracking. It has to do with the failure of every president between 1980 and 2008 to make energy independence -- and reduced oil consumption -- a true national security priority.
1
Maybe ruining our underground water reserves, and creating artificial earthquakes weren't worth it?
The USA seems to have lost our collective minds - Saudi Arabia has never been, will never be, or is now our friend. We have been, were, and still are their dupes and how they must laugh. Guess we will never learn nor do we seem to want to. Our tax dollars fund ISIS thanks to the Saudis!! Kosovo is only one instance of the truth of this. Irene
56
Great investigative journalism. I look forward to learning how Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump and Bernard Sanders propose to deal with this Saudia funded structural terrorism in the long-term.
38
Somehow we have this idea that if we show compassion for Islamic societies that will somehow forestall extremism.
40
There seems an implied passivity of the non-extreme muslims. Are the arguments being made by the proselytizers so convincing? Are the counter-arguments by the non-extremist so weak? Is there some historically built-in tendency in many to follow the haters' call? Are physical threat and intimidation so extreme and widespread as to be not opposable? What is the seduction?
21
It is very comparable to Marxism. Islam builds up a proposition of "all problems can be solved through just distribution of resources". Never mind that many problems directly stem from exponential population growth. That does not exist according to the Quran. So - "evil, non-believing people" are to be blamed for all sorrows.
If you believe into this "logic" hard enough, then it is "rational" to support the holy warriors, because "they do something against the evil people".
The Communists had almost exactly the same line of thought and also most Communists just applauded when some hard core people blew up the "evil capitalists".
The core problem is nasty, absolutist and brutal ideologies. Some say it is related to the guy Abraham, but apparently Marx and Lenin did not need Abraham in order to develop a nasty doctrine.
If you believe into this "logic" hard enough, then it is "rational" to support the holy warriors, because "they do something against the evil people".
The Communists had almost exactly the same line of thought and also most Communists just applauded when some hard core people blew up the "evil capitalists".
The core problem is nasty, absolutist and brutal ideologies. Some say it is related to the guy Abraham, but apparently Marx and Lenin did not need Abraham in order to develop a nasty doctrine.
2
Funding love. That's the main thing here. Non-extreme Muslims (or moderate muslims as the article calls them) simply lack the funding compared to the extremists. It's not that they are passive, it's just that their voice does not resonate as much as the other sides' because they don't have the money to push it.
The seduction lies in reading and learning what is in the Koran ... if people were to read the Koran they would quickly realise that ISIS and other extremists are doing exactly what is written in the Koran! Moderate Muslims either are ignorant of what the Koran teaches or only deliberately pick and follow the "nice/Meccan" parts, but then leave themselves open to criticism and dismissed/disregarded by those who learn and follow the "real Islam/Medina" teachings!
As a mobilized reservist who served consecutive KFOR peacekeeping tours - in the run up to Kosovo's declared independence - I often wondered why our American diplomatic officials never fully parlayed our country's efforts to liberate a secular Muslim society to more enhanced levels of cooperation in the Middle East.
::scratches head::
::scratches head::
23
Kosovo "liberation" led to ethnic cleansing of Kosovo's Serbs and the rise of Islamic stronghold on the gates of Europe. US foreign policy biggest problem historically always was the lack of interest what happens after. From Guatemala and Chile to Serbia and Libya. And given that Albright and Blair now own business interest in Kosovo coal mining, I wonder was it ever about human rights.
17
"I often wondered why our American diplomatic officials never fully parlayed our country's efforts to liberate a secular Muslim society "
Because EU. If you read the article, we tried to pass a law to basically ban extremism but those efforts were thwarted by the EU.
As to the other reply from Serge, "ethnic cleansing of Kosovo Serbs" after liberation? Gotta wonder where are you getting your news. I'm sure it's run by the same people who've been probed by little green men.
Because EU. If you read the article, we tried to pass a law to basically ban extremism but those efforts were thwarted by the EU.
As to the other reply from Serge, "ethnic cleansing of Kosovo Serbs" after liberation? Gotta wonder where are you getting your news. I'm sure it's run by the same people who've been probed by little green men.
@Beni - http://minorityrights.org/minorities/serbs-3/ - See how life of Serbs in Kosovo in explained. You could also read a little about current situation in Kosovo, maybe skip official propaganda from criminals running Kosovo at the moment...
2
What a disaster! One other catastrophic mistake made by U.S. and allies. Why did they want at any cost Kosovo to became independent ? Why they keep supporting saudis? How long will the western societies be willing to pay the enormous costs of all this? It is clear that a new generation of politicians is needed, let s hope the next will be better.
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They wanted Kosovo to be independent because they were being oppressed and murdered by the serbs. An Albanian isn't a human according to the governments of Serbia and Montenegro.
3
Well, according to the Kosovarians, Serbs must be ethnically cleansed from their land.
Hard problem...
Hard problem...
3
The Kosovo intervention and independents was not a mistake , the poor socioeconomic status of Kosovo is the main problem for this development , the youth is poor, unemployed, bad educated and thus deceptive to radicalisation. You can argue that after nineeleven there should have been more efforts to counteract those forces but monetary aid going to Kosovo has no real effect because of the corruption in that country. Kosovo is one of the most liberal muslim countries in the world, always was and will be , I'm an atheist Kosovar born their and raised by a liberal Muslim family for over 25 years in Germany. They are culturally backwards but never were religiously.
3
It is a sad testimony of humanity that we do not appear to realize the lessons of history. Zealots in the 21st Century? What on earth are we to do?
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The zealots have found the weak point in the armor of the Europeans: Money. You can buy permission to do almost anything if you pay the right people in our countries.
3
Last century Bill Clinton got us involved in a distant civil war. This century Hillary Clinton got us involved in a distant civil war. Neither is turning out well for us. Have we learned anything?
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No mention of GW Bush then? Nothing?
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Nothing. My comment was about the Clintons, who hope to return to the white house.
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Apparently not, since we then turned around an invaded Iraq after Bill Clinton left office.
7 decades of oil money and all they have to show for it is thousands of mosques and dead jihadis
Think of the good they could have done...cure cancer, global warming, Malaria, etc.
I can't name a single Saudi invention or accomplishment that has improved the world since algebra
Think of the good they could have done...cure cancer, global warming, Malaria, etc.
I can't name a single Saudi invention or accomplishment that has improved the world since algebra
155
I take your point, but the algebra long predates the existence of Saudi Arabia.
4
Algebra was not invented by Saudis but by mathematicians from Greece, India and Persia. A Persian mathematician al-Kwarizmi living in Baghdad, synthesized these ideas into a book Ilm al-Jabr that made its way into Europe. Iraq and Iran were once centers of learning and tolerance, and at the forefront of knowledge in the arts and sciences. They were the exact opposite of the intolerant religion and culture prevalent today in both countries. As for the Saudis, their main achievement has been the spread of poisonous ideology using petrodollars.
5
Ok..the. I can't name any accomplishments or inventions making life better for the world. None at all....trillions of dollars wasted on jihad, hate, intolerance, palaces and the pursuit of the id.
3
The Kingdom crumbling down can't come soon enough. A good rule of thumb is to do the opposite of that which Saudis support.
But hey, they are a great weapon customer - we can't rock that boat.
But hey, they are a great weapon customer - we can't rock that boat.
26
Bewildered by this article. If it's known to the USA as revealed in your report ,which I doubt very much, it must be the greatest mystery of our time that the greatest and most powerful country to allow such a thing to occur. The 9/11 disaster is enough to make it stop the proliferation of such evil groups world wide
3
The fact that the heart of Sunni Islam, Saudi Arabia, has been using its vast financial resources to support and proselytize for decades an intolerant and radical version of Islam, is the fundamental source of the Islamic radicalism we see worldwide today. Failure to develop poor Muslim nations economically left them vulnerable to Saudi influence. Insistence on western standards of religious freedom gave the Islamic extremists a freehand to convert the local population.
Saudi Arabia is unlikely to ditch Wahabism in the foreseeable future. Western nations will have to make a concerted effort to counter Saudi influence in poor Islamic countries, which is best achieved through economic development and support of moderate Islam. Unfortunately, with both Europe and US becoming more inward looking, efforts will likely be directed more toward police and military operations instead of addressing the root causes. However, there is currently one positive aspect, namely the low oil price, which is putting pressure on Saudi Govt to reduce spending. This would also lead to reduced funding for overseas religious proselytization.
Saudi Arabia is unlikely to ditch Wahabism in the foreseeable future. Western nations will have to make a concerted effort to counter Saudi influence in poor Islamic countries, which is best achieved through economic development and support of moderate Islam. Unfortunately, with both Europe and US becoming more inward looking, efforts will likely be directed more toward police and military operations instead of addressing the root causes. However, there is currently one positive aspect, namely the low oil price, which is putting pressure on Saudi Govt to reduce spending. This would also lead to reduced funding for overseas religious proselytization.
29
What the Saudis do at the moment is to open the strategic money reserves in order to achieve more of their goals quicker. And in many ways they succeed, unfortunately.
SRF noted the problem! However SRF's solution is not practical.SRF stated the solution " which achieved through economic development" which is best described by a US statement spokesperson as giving them " Jobs" Wow: increase our(USA) unemployment rate by creating jobs in the muslim countries. Another suggested solution " support of moderate islam" Wow let our government ignore or repeal the constitutional amendment " not to establish a religion or prohibit the free exercise thereof" Please note the quote may not be very accurate. but i did the best I could. Thanks.
1
A syrian friend said to me growing up in Syria, in his neighborhood, within an equal distance from each other, a liquor store, a mosque, and a very old church, without government interference; there was more freedom of religion than i have seen in europe or the US. Although, eventually saudi money financed 2 more mosques in the same neighborhood almost to surround the church. i never saw saudi money go to a university or support a medical or scientific research, it was always to promote radical islam.
at what point the civilized world will acknowledge the damage to generations of young people that the saudi cancer has caused and continue to do so. when does the US values overtake our short sighted interests in that region, this is much much worse threat than communism ever was.
at what point the civilized world will acknowledge the damage to generations of young people that the saudi cancer has caused and continue to do so. when does the US values overtake our short sighted interests in that region, this is much much worse threat than communism ever was.
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'...a liquor store, a mosque, and a very old church...'
No synagogues though? The kind you see in 'europe or the US'?
Or does Syria have a different kind of 'freedom of religion'?
No synagogues though? The kind you see in 'europe or the US'?
Or does Syria have a different kind of 'freedom of religion'?
1
Tracy, where you see this? And please sea and some other videos how albanian kild serbian population not just in 1999 even before... the truth is not just in one side....
Clinton dropped bombs on Serbia opening the door even wider to radical Islam. The Serbians tactics were wrong in Kosovo but they understood who they were fighting when the world rest of the world did not.
15
The Serbs were not fighting the Albanians. They were slaughtering them. There are videos of Serbian soldiers making bets to see who can kill the most Albanians and would proceed to kill entire families. Learn before you comment.
5
Truth or propaganda, manufactured by the Turkish and the Saudis ? The people who now sponsor ISIS, while claiming to fight them.
3
@Tracy - Can we get links to those videos? There are many examples of soldiers committing atrocities, sorry to say but Serbs are not immune in that. That does not mean that Albanians did not do similar things. As an educated person, I know you are aware that KLA was listed as a terrorist organization by USA, up until 1998 I believe. Then it changed and they became legitimate all of a sudden and NATO started training/equipping then indirectly. I wonder why? Did it have anything to do with Albanians lobbying US congress? I'll help, yes. Google it. There has been very little to support evidence of mass murder on the scale that was sold to us in 1999, it is my understanding that many of the "mass graves" turned up nothing. I'm not saying that Albanians did not suffer, but the issue in Kosovo was/is much bigger that "evil Serbs killing everyone"..
7
Covert funding of Islamic terrorist groups by individual Saudis and the Saudi Arabian government comes as no surprise to many. What is difficult to understand is why we, the U.S. leaders continue to sustain strong political ties and military support to them? It is despicable the havoc they're involve in the Middle East. They have the gall to snug our President.
Radicalizing young Kosovans puts entirety of Europe in danger wand further risk to U.S. national security.
Radicalizing young Kosovans puts entirety of Europe in danger wand further risk to U.S. national security.
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Oil.
1
I like that word snug.
It is halfway between snub and hug.
It is halfway between snub and hug.
1
"Kosovan" is not a word. It's "Kosovar".
The naivete of the West here borders on criminality. One could even make an argument of Western complicity of helping foster Islamic extremism with their liberal ideas of haters and killers to grow and strengthen. This is symptomatic of the Liberal West's political correctness, where they will outright prevent the curtailment of Islamic extremism and call those that try to stop it, as racists and bigots.
39
One could make an argument? Go ahead. But use facts, not opinion.
This article is leaving out the BIG ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.
US policy, support for the Saudi's, the US and western nations invasions, wars, occupations and general interference in the affairs of this region for both oil and geopolitical positioning against Russia. This article only addresses one piece of the puzzle which has lit this region on fire and driven extremism. The US and the west continue to fight "terrorism" which is in large part created by the West.
This extremism will never end until we look more deeply at the connections and stop the policies that fuel this extremism!
US policy, support for the Saudi's, the US and western nations invasions, wars, occupations and general interference in the affairs of this region for both oil and geopolitical positioning against Russia. This article only addresses one piece of the puzzle which has lit this region on fire and driven extremism. The US and the west continue to fight "terrorism" which is in large part created by the West.
This extremism will never end until we look more deeply at the connections and stop the policies that fuel this extremism!
72
Only 3 comments to this article so far? Could apathy be setting in re: the Saudis?
6
it was easy to see that the US under Clinton and Albright were on the wrong side during the Kosovo war...
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Yeah, we should have gone with the xenophobic genocidal racists who wanted to wipe out 90 percent of their society who were down being treated as chattel.
7
Which is the right side of history defending those being ethnically cleansed or helping those doing the cleansing?
3
@Ronald and Patricia - I wonder have you read more about current situation in Kosovo for non Albanians? Have you read more that the headlines serve you? Feel free to google "March 17, 2004 unrest in Kosovo". See how peaceful that was for non Albanians.
4
Great investigative reporting.
22
There are two the U.S's states in Europe: Ukraine and Kosovo
5
Could someone explain to me what more the Suadis could do to become our enemies? They must be pretty frustrated at this point.
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The core of any fight against radical Islam has to be a fight to stop the spread of Wahhabism. The U.S. should no longer rely on Saudi money to fund the rebels in Syria or rely on the Saudis for anything at all. We don't need their oil and we can provide our friends who do with ours instead. Saudi Arabia is not an ally of any secular society and should be treated accordingly.
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When are the people in our government going to finally recognize that the Saudi's are not our friends of allies?
I believe one term describing the insidious game they are playing is "the long game". They like their GOP allies in our government dream of a past that never existed and are trying to "recreate" it in the future.
All monarchy is evil but this one is nearly as sick evil and perverse as the British monarchy, they are certainly as good as them at hiding their hand.
I believe one term describing the insidious game they are playing is "the long game". They like their GOP allies in our government dream of a past that never existed and are trying to "recreate" it in the future.
All monarchy is evil but this one is nearly as sick evil and perverse as the British monarchy, they are certainly as good as them at hiding their hand.
78
"They like their GOP allies in our government dream of a past that never existed and are trying to "recreate" it in the future."
Sorry, but you forgot Hillary. Just Google "the Clintons and Saudi donations" or something like that.
Sorry, but you forgot Hillary. Just Google "the Clintons and Saudi donations" or something like that.
@ Alex
Sorry, but you forgot GW Bush. Just Google "GW Bush and Saudi donations" or something like that.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/images/100000003466848/2015/01/23/world/middle...
Sorry, but you forgot GW Bush. Just Google "GW Bush and Saudi donations" or something like that.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/images/100000003466848/2015/01/23/world/middle...
2
For goodness sake!! They don't like us!! US tries to get their foot in the door and then shoves new democracy down theirs throats; the very reason why they hate us. And look how well democracy is working for us! We are over joyed here :) NOT!! Let's fix our democracy first.
2
Yet, to read Gall’s article, is to experience a new fear of a dark, simmering pot of extremism in Southern Europe. Happily, as Americans living and working in Kosovo, my family and I have experienced quite the opposite. At work, at people’s dinner tables, in cafes and clubs, we encounter nothing but open, hopeful, bright, tolerant people –young and old – yearning for nothing more than continued peace and inclusion.
A smaller percentage of the "available" Muslim population here has joined ISIS than in most other European countries. Come here to visit and you will encounter people with incredible love and respect for the United States. It's a beautiful country and culture trying to overcome a difficult recent past. Ms. Gall and NYT misrepresent the Kosovo that I know.