that medical technician is a murderer and should be tried as such. Is he still working?
17
Hm, it seems his dorm roommate brought some pot, which was improved with PCP. I wonder if the dorm dude even told his buddy about the PCP, or if it was a surprise. Surprise of a lifetime.
"Wow, duude, I got the coolest pot, it's super-Kustom!! Try this, it'll send you on the best trip ever!"
Yeah, what could go wrong.
"Wow, duude, I got the coolest pot, it's super-Kustom!! Try this, it'll send you on the best trip ever!"
Yeah, what could go wrong.
10
It's time to up the bar for being a police person, up the pay, up the educational requirement, because this is getting stupid like the cops have gotten.
14
If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Give a cop a gun and he'll use it whenever he can. Especially if predisposed - as so many are - to violent, bullying behavior.
12
I was pulled over for speeding recently. When the strutting young cop in dark sunglasses and military regalia approached my car, I kept my hands visible on the wheel and asked for permission to reach into my handbag for my license.
A middle-aged woman is frightened by a traffic stop in full daylight. Military state? You bet.
A middle-aged woman is frightened by a traffic stop in full daylight. Military state? You bet.
26
Don't do drugs, and especially not bad weed. Among other conclusions.
10
Inexperienced-unproffesional-panicked killers
16
What amazes me is about the footage that the officers involved express no remorse over having killed a man who committed no crime. Their only concern is that they will lose their jobs.
21
These officers need to be prosecuted for torture and murder. It's shameful.
10
I don't recall reading about this six months ago.
I guess the lives that matter are limited to specific categories.
The pigs that did this should be in general population in prison - where No Lives Matter
I guess the lives that matter are limited to specific categories.
The pigs that did this should be in general population in prison - where No Lives Matter
9
This sort of thing won't stop until police stop thinking of everyone as the "enemy".
11
Police state. These cowards should be put in prison for life, like all cowardly cops.
8
Two points; The cops were using the audio recording of the camera to fill it with many commands of don't move while Chase Sherman barely moved. Second, The cop said he was going to be fired, not jailed. That is significant.
18
"This is not racially motivated because victim and police were white"; so that must mean that if one person were to be a different color then it' would have been racially motivated. Thank you NYT for generalizing and simplifying police involved tragedies.
17
the cops used the taser so freely, yet were terrified when the poor man got hold of it and could use it on them, the cowards. That poor family, to witness that.
7
Wasn't that his mother on the 911 call screaming over and over that her son was going to kill her? People who ingest synthetic drugs, this was not pot, are crazy dangerous. The cops could not control the man. Are they supposed to be injured for the small amount of money they are paid? This guy could have killed innocent motorists as well as his now bereaved mother looking to get a big windfall for the loss of her worthless son.
10
The police have no need for Tasers. The problem is that the police have no idea as to how the person they Taser will respond to the thousands of volts coursing through the subject's body. A gun is seen as life-threatening, a Taser is not. I'm 63 without a heart condition but I know if I was shot with a Taser multiple times, I too, would die.
10
It appears this now deceased man's history was given by family members as events unfolded. Mental illness and drug reactions should be treated as such. Bad situation for these policemen. Can't we authorize the use of tranquilizers when needed? Tasering is barbaric in this scenario.
7
Here in France, and most probably anywhere in Europe, the police would not be considered as the first obvious helper. Medical emergencies would be very instinctly called for first.
That says a lot too.
That says a lot too.
22
Tangent. Various interstellar ships come by quite often. And they leave. Disappointed. The sentient race on Planet Earth is unfit. Earthlings focus most energy on ways to kill each other, rather than preserving each other. Pity.
3
I'm 69. I had a seizure at home. The EMT, instead of sedating me called the cops. 4 of them came as I had a violent reaction from coming out of a seizure. One of the cops said "Let's put him in a burrito!" They handcuffed me, they injured my arm tendons, I was black and blue all over for weeks. I'm still suffering from the encounter. My wife said don't sue the cops, it's dangerous. I told her to leave me there, foaming with my seizure if it happens again. Epileptics shouldn't be violently restrained.
25
At the end of this disturbing video, after the man has been "subdued" to death the officer's biggest worry seems to be that he will lose his job. At least at that moment, there seems to be a total lack of compassion for the family or remorse for the loss of the mans life.
24
Good luck trying to wrest the money for more police training from local municipalities. They are trying to grapple with the need to provide body cams and the huge associated costs. Try passing local bond measure to provide funds for police training ( that comes after the long list for new police cars, pension funding, a new high school football field, paved roads and all that).
People want great local services and less government spending so they pay less taxes. I want to eat sushi and not pay. Right-it does not work like that. We need to have the conversation about this smaller government that conservatives cry for but no one really wants to live with. Can't have it both ways folks and it ain't gonna get any better until we teach the next generation of voters about this stuff.
People want great local services and less government spending so they pay less taxes. I want to eat sushi and not pay. Right-it does not work like that. We need to have the conversation about this smaller government that conservatives cry for but no one really wants to live with. Can't have it both ways folks and it ain't gonna get any better until we teach the next generation of voters about this stuff.
18
A high school diploma. That's all law enforcement, coast to coast, requires to put deadly force into the hands of a cop. It's time this country grew up and paid a high enough wage to those who hold life in their own hands and require not only a college degree, but one that reflects having taken psychology, sociology, anthropology and history. Too many high school graduates - many with just GED's - CANNOT handle the job. Those with little or no education cannot handle these high adrenaline moments. They truly know nothing more than when they were 18 years old. And their youthful prejudices get fed every day because there are no other perspectives that that they've been exposed to. Both men should be charged with aggravated murder.
22
If your job involves cardiac surgery you better know how the heart works. If your job involves tasers you better know what they do, how they do it and how fast they work. These calm comments by readers that "maybe the police don't understand" and "it's so unfortunate" downplay and minimize the horror of the situations. Their lack of knowledge, their improper use of the taser and their failure to deconstruct the situation killed this man.
20
I am amazed at all of the armchair quarterbacks who know exactly how the officers should have handled this situation and exactly what they did wrong at every moment of this episode. The fact is this incident (and there are hundreds of incidents like it daily when police are forced to confront violent and psychotic people) ended as a terrible tragedy for everyone involved. The fact is there are really no perfect ways to deal with these individuals. What works well for one may only further enrage another. I've been there- I know. It's easy to rush to judgement, but much more difficult if you've walked a mile in their shoes.
10
The problem in situation such as these seems to be that some police officers are not trained, or trained properly, on how to handle these types of situations. They seem to be no better at handling this situation than the average civilian.
The man was handcuffed with multiple officers on the scene. Situations such as this are nothing less than disturbing and unnecessary.
The man was handcuffed with multiple officers on the scene. Situations such as this are nothing less than disturbing and unnecessary.
13
The responsibility for this tragedy rests with Mr. Sherman. He took the "synthetic marijuana" that caused his violent behavior. I do think that police officers everywhere in the USA need better training to safely subdue people like Mr. Sherman. I feel for Mr. Sherman's family and for the police officers who had to deal with the fallout from his bad decision to take a drug that made him very ill and aggressive. Drug users put themselves and their loved ones at risk. Whatever it was he took made it impossible for his family to keep him in the car on the highway and for two officers to control him. Shouldn't we be talking about whatever it was he took that had that effect on him?
3
This type of story, a family calling the police to help them with a family member who is acting put of control, only to have it end with the police killing their loved one, is something that repeats itself over and over again. And the lesson from these stories are clear. No matter how out of control a loved one is acting the worst thing to do is to call the police.
And this is because the police are the only types of security officers that are both to lazy to use plain physical force to subdue an unruly person, and are also the only type of security officers for whom it is legal to use potentially deadly force.
And this goes without even considering the fact that the police can turn many situations into one where they are legally permitted to use lethal force with the express purpose of causing death, while all others are not so they resort to other means, like talking for example. And in 99.9% of the times where the police would have used deadly force, had others been trying to resolve the situation it would have resolved itself without anybody dying.
A good illustration of this difference is to contemplate the difference between how bouncers do their jobs as opposed to the police. There is very little doubt that if the police had to deal with big muscular men that are drunk and angry and using physical force against them, deadly police shootings would be a nightly occurrence in nightspots across America.
And this is because the police are the only types of security officers that are both to lazy to use plain physical force to subdue an unruly person, and are also the only type of security officers for whom it is legal to use potentially deadly force.
And this goes without even considering the fact that the police can turn many situations into one where they are legally permitted to use lethal force with the express purpose of causing death, while all others are not so they resort to other means, like talking for example. And in 99.9% of the times where the police would have used deadly force, had others been trying to resolve the situation it would have resolved itself without anybody dying.
A good illustration of this difference is to contemplate the difference between how bouncers do their jobs as opposed to the police. There is very little doubt that if the police had to deal with big muscular men that are drunk and angry and using physical force against them, deadly police shootings would be a nightly occurrence in nightspots across America.
5
American police are out of control. Not only does policing attract bullying and controlling gun nut personalities, in the last several decades, the police have been militarized to the point that they are essentially an occupying army in this land. The federal government and the Department of Defense gift state and local police departments throughout the land with all sorts of military hardware to use against Americans ---- against poor people, mentally ill people, black people, against the innocent and misdemeanants.
The police in America have been allowed to get away with murder. Usurping the role of judge and jury and violating the separation of powers, the police mete out the death penalty and pre-trial executions to mentally ill people having breakdowns, to shoplifters making off with $2.50 worth of food, to motorists for driving while black, for being an unarmed black person, for having a tail light out, for being a stupid teenager making a boneheaded teenager move.
Why is this allowed and who allows it? The people who when they sit on juries always believe and side with the police, granting police testimony greater credibility than that of civilian witnesses; the city councils and mayors who allow the militarization of local police;
If your friend, family member or neighbor is acting crazy, do NOT call the police ever . Instead, take them to the ER. Learn how to calm them. Make sure they have no firearms access. If you call the police, someone may well die.
The police in America have been allowed to get away with murder. Usurping the role of judge and jury and violating the separation of powers, the police mete out the death penalty and pre-trial executions to mentally ill people having breakdowns, to shoplifters making off with $2.50 worth of food, to motorists for driving while black, for being an unarmed black person, for having a tail light out, for being a stupid teenager making a boneheaded teenager move.
Why is this allowed and who allows it? The people who when they sit on juries always believe and side with the police, granting police testimony greater credibility than that of civilian witnesses; the city councils and mayors who allow the militarization of local police;
If your friend, family member or neighbor is acting crazy, do NOT call the police ever . Instead, take them to the ER. Learn how to calm them. Make sure they have no firearms access. If you call the police, someone may well die.
8
I'm a white middle aged guy and over three decades have had multiple encounters with the police related to a couple of minor car accidents, vandalism of my car in a driveway, the need to get forms, broken key at 4am, etc... Really run of the mill stuff... Having no bias to start with my dealings with them have created one.
I think they are expert at turning the turning the public against them one citizen at a time.
Honestly speaking most of the encounters have been unpleasant. Filling out reports incorrectly, not wishing to accept objective evidence (GPS data), not collecting evidence from the scene of the vandalism, not responding back and generally having incredibly poor and belligerent service attitudes when it was totally uncalled for. Forget about serving the public, how about just being civil or making believe you care? This is a combination of New York Cops and Nassau County cops who are one of the highest paid in the country. I had one situation that was so bad in terms of a totally incorrect police report that I brought a complaint to the civilian review board and Brattons office.
Ok, its a thankless job, but if you have attitude problems you shouldn't be doing it. Thanks to the attitudes I have encountered as a law abiding citizen I would not typically help a cop. My experience is they have no interest in getting is right. They do what they do, justify their actions and assume everyone outside the force is their enemy.
Bad training, bad attitudes, bad news.
I think they are expert at turning the turning the public against them one citizen at a time.
Honestly speaking most of the encounters have been unpleasant. Filling out reports incorrectly, not wishing to accept objective evidence (GPS data), not collecting evidence from the scene of the vandalism, not responding back and generally having incredibly poor and belligerent service attitudes when it was totally uncalled for. Forget about serving the public, how about just being civil or making believe you care? This is a combination of New York Cops and Nassau County cops who are one of the highest paid in the country. I had one situation that was so bad in terms of a totally incorrect police report that I brought a complaint to the civilian review board and Brattons office.
Ok, its a thankless job, but if you have attitude problems you shouldn't be doing it. Thanks to the attitudes I have encountered as a law abiding citizen I would not typically help a cop. My experience is they have no interest in getting is right. They do what they do, justify their actions and assume everyone outside the force is their enemy.
Bad training, bad attitudes, bad news.
20
Other readers have compared these police officers' reaction to policing in the U.K.; I would like to offer up a comparison to a recent example of policing in France:
As I listened to the Georgia police officers panic, one screaming hysterically at the man to stop resisting, another punching him violently in the head, before tasering him repeatedly all the while yelling at him to stop resisting, I couldn't help but compare their reaction to that of the two French police officers whose car was lit on fire this week, with them still in it. The video shows the driver at one point taking his gun out, but then putting it away.
Most U.S. media showed the spectacular images of the car being attacked, but not the officers' reaction once they got out of the car. They continued being attacked, with the driver receiving repeated blows, which he fended off with his forearms. Bystanders grabbed the attackers, allowing the police officers to walk away, which they did, further de-escalating the situation (see link below from Le Monde).
Although there is always the risk of making generalities based on outliers, I do believe there is an underlying difference in the way police officers are trained and cultivated in other countries that warrants refection.
http://www.lemonde.fr/police-justice/article/2016/05/20/voiture-de-polic...
As I listened to the Georgia police officers panic, one screaming hysterically at the man to stop resisting, another punching him violently in the head, before tasering him repeatedly all the while yelling at him to stop resisting, I couldn't help but compare their reaction to that of the two French police officers whose car was lit on fire this week, with them still in it. The video shows the driver at one point taking his gun out, but then putting it away.
Most U.S. media showed the spectacular images of the car being attacked, but not the officers' reaction once they got out of the car. They continued being attacked, with the driver receiving repeated blows, which he fended off with his forearms. Bystanders grabbed the attackers, allowing the police officers to walk away, which they did, further de-escalating the situation (see link below from Le Monde).
Although there is always the risk of making generalities based on outliers, I do believe there is an underlying difference in the way police officers are trained and cultivated in other countries that warrants refection.
http://www.lemonde.fr/police-justice/article/2016/05/20/voiture-de-polic...
7
Not using "synthetic marijuana" would likely have avoided the entire incident. Nobody would have died, nobody would have struggled, no emergency services would have been called out, no family would be mourning, no taxpayer would have to pay for the episode or the subsequent inquiry, no cop would have this on his conscience. Sometimes it pays to take the right decisions and to be in control of yourself.
From a purely practical point of view, why didn't the first cop cuff Sherman's hands behind his back, given that he actually had the opportunity to cuff him? Just that would have stopped the taser being snatched, as well as impeding Sherman's ability to struggle.
From a purely practical point of view, why didn't the first cop cuff Sherman's hands behind his back, given that he actually had the opportunity to cuff him? Just that would have stopped the taser being snatched, as well as impeding Sherman's ability to struggle.
7
The family is equally at fault in this incident. They should have sought medical attention for the victim in the DR and then again at the airport. If they had done so their loved one would still be alive. The cops continued to tase the victim, because he continued to resist. Their options were very limited, and yet we seem to expect cops to make the best choice that will result in a positive outcome in all situations. Life in stressful situations is not that simple.
Should they have let a delusional man exit the car on a busy highway without being under control, of course not. Saying "I quit" and actually quitting are two very different things. My evaluation of the video is the victim only momentarily stopped resisting several times and then used the relaxation of the cops to repeatedly try and gain a physical advantage. The cops should not have threatened to shoot him, which was what his mother was objecting to. But the cops were in a no win situation.
Should they have let a delusional man exit the car on a busy highway without being under control, of course not. Saying "I quit" and actually quitting are two very different things. My evaluation of the video is the victim only momentarily stopped resisting several times and then used the relaxation of the cops to repeatedly try and gain a physical advantage. The cops should not have threatened to shoot him, which was what his mother was objecting to. But the cops were in a no win situation.
2
I would ask the readers and writers to review the medical literature. The core problem in this case is synthetic marijuana that was ingested. Not only does it create hallucinations and violent behavior it affects cardiovascular physiology.
There have been many reports of it increasing cardiac sensitivity thus a taser like device can cause cardiac arrest and arrythmias. There are also reports that these agents can cause malignant hyperthermia and lead to organ failure and death.
Thus the core problem is these terrible substances that have flooded our society.
I am disappointed that the NYT did not focus in on these aspects of the case and only focused to stimulating a hatred of the police which seems very politically correct currently.
The police are unable to anlyze during a assistance case what designer drug was injested and what will be the physiologic affect.
Ask any ER physcian about the explosion of these drugs and how the differ in there affects not only on behavior but on organ systems.
I was amazed that no one blames the true problem the drug and only insults and blames the police. The should spent the night observing a ER to truely see what these synthetic agents are doing to our population.
There have been many reports of it increasing cardiac sensitivity thus a taser like device can cause cardiac arrest and arrythmias. There are also reports that these agents can cause malignant hyperthermia and lead to organ failure and death.
Thus the core problem is these terrible substances that have flooded our society.
I am disappointed that the NYT did not focus in on these aspects of the case and only focused to stimulating a hatred of the police which seems very politically correct currently.
The police are unable to anlyze during a assistance case what designer drug was injested and what will be the physiologic affect.
Ask any ER physcian about the explosion of these drugs and how the differ in there affects not only on behavior but on organ systems.
I was amazed that no one blames the true problem the drug and only insults and blames the police. The should spent the night observing a ER to truely see what these synthetic agents are doing to our population.
9
Another tragic and disgusting misuse of power by those who are apparently insufficiently trained or misusing, for other reasons, the deadly weapons with which they are entrusted. Time for a mandated complete evaluation of all components of police education, assessment of every individual officer's judgement and ongoing supervision/monitoring of their actions when on the job. This has been long-due.
6
If the prerequisites to become an officer of the law were ameliorated, the vast majority of these incidents would cease to exist. Training is the common denominator amongst these officers and why the system needs to be entirely overhauled.
The most difficult requirement in order to become a Police Officer should be the reasons why. Are they in fact mentally competent to serve? College exam applications are harder to pass than the Police exam.
I recall growing us and constantly hearing "you could always become a cop" if you didn't know what you wanted to be or weren't smart enough. Obviously meaning they took anyone and this is pricisely were the problem continues to lie. Once that gun is strapped to their waist, thier entire demeanor changes.
The sad fact of the matter is with a militarized Police Force the last thing you want are educated officers who might actually question a higher officer commands and or think before discharging a weapon.
If these Police Forces were serious about preventing crime they would enact community policing and having officers walking beats as was done for generations before all this brutality became the norm.
Rather than wait for the call, have officers assigned to specific area's so they're able to familiarize themselves with the community and residents. Rather than show up at an accident after it happens, enforce the laws and prevent it from happening in the first place. Same applies with every other aspect of law enforcement as well
The most difficult requirement in order to become a Police Officer should be the reasons why. Are they in fact mentally competent to serve? College exam applications are harder to pass than the Police exam.
I recall growing us and constantly hearing "you could always become a cop" if you didn't know what you wanted to be or weren't smart enough. Obviously meaning they took anyone and this is pricisely were the problem continues to lie. Once that gun is strapped to their waist, thier entire demeanor changes.
The sad fact of the matter is with a militarized Police Force the last thing you want are educated officers who might actually question a higher officer commands and or think before discharging a weapon.
If these Police Forces were serious about preventing crime they would enact community policing and having officers walking beats as was done for generations before all this brutality became the norm.
Rather than wait for the call, have officers assigned to specific area's so they're able to familiarize themselves with the community and residents. Rather than show up at an accident after it happens, enforce the laws and prevent it from happening in the first place. Same applies with every other aspect of law enforcement as well
4
Keep hiring cops without rigid psychological testing and you'll keep hiring people with a proclivity for pushing others around. Give them a badge and free reign and you're shocked when they bully and beat?
I know many good, decent police officers. They are nice people who have to deal with contentious citizens and who, I understand, are trained to take control of situations. I get it. But every one of us has been pulled over by a bully who yells and belittles for no reason except that he can (woman officers seem calmer). I'm a law abiding citizen -- middle-class, middle-aged and white -- and my encounters through the years have run around 50/50 between calm professionals and mean-spirited bullies.
Police are in stressful jobs and explosive situations and you can't just take anyone who can jump a fence or hit a bullseye. In some ways, given that they deal with criminals, it's surprising there aren't more incidents than there are.
It argues for better evaluation of applicants and more rigid testing. Until better screening happens, poorly evaluated police will continue to react poorly. If we have to pay them more to get that, it'll be well worth it.
I know many good, decent police officers. They are nice people who have to deal with contentious citizens and who, I understand, are trained to take control of situations. I get it. But every one of us has been pulled over by a bully who yells and belittles for no reason except that he can (woman officers seem calmer). I'm a law abiding citizen -- middle-class, middle-aged and white -- and my encounters through the years have run around 50/50 between calm professionals and mean-spirited bullies.
Police are in stressful jobs and explosive situations and you can't just take anyone who can jump a fence or hit a bullseye. In some ways, given that they deal with criminals, it's surprising there aren't more incidents than there are.
It argues for better evaluation of applicants and more rigid testing. Until better screening happens, poorly evaluated police will continue to react poorly. If we have to pay them more to get that, it'll be well worth it.
12
A person having a psychotic episode who because of that very thing is unable to comply with directives from cops, who, apparently believing that the victim is willfully disobeying, become more and more angry, as many do when their directives are ignored...a recipes for disaster but certainly nothing new. Why oh why are cops not trained to recognize such situations and de-escalate accordingly. Another unnecessary tragedy.
14
Let the investigation be completed with public scrutiny, we should not judge these first responders from afar because we were not there. If the local officials or State of Georgia obstruct the investigation, then the Justice dept. can be invited to look at the evidence.
Obviously this man had some serious reaction from either his synthetic drug usage or an unknown ailment. The family is obviously upset that this man is dead and they deserve a fair and balanced accounting for the response to there request for help.
These officers are human and therefore not perfect, perhaps there response was too aggressive, but adrenaline can be a challenge to modulate for both responders and the alleged victim.
Let the autopsy, body camera evidence and eyewitnesses tell their stories and the public scrutiny will determine, guilt, innocence and/ or tragedy. Justice delayed is not necessarily justice denied.
Obviously this man had some serious reaction from either his synthetic drug usage or an unknown ailment. The family is obviously upset that this man is dead and they deserve a fair and balanced accounting for the response to there request for help.
These officers are human and therefore not perfect, perhaps there response was too aggressive, but adrenaline can be a challenge to modulate for both responders and the alleged victim.
Let the autopsy, body camera evidence and eyewitnesses tell their stories and the public scrutiny will determine, guilt, innocence and/ or tragedy. Justice delayed is not necessarily justice denied.
6
The video makes it perfectly clear that the police overused their tasers. If a person is so compromised that one or two taser jolts are not effective at subduing, it means that repeat usage won't do much good and then risk cardiac arrest. These officers were clearly not properly trained on how to gauge safe usage of a taser. This is manslaughter.
7
The officers who murdered Mr. Sherman have not been suspended. They are still out there; ready, and apparently willing, to murder more civilians.
.
The nagging question in my mind however is why Mr. Sherman's family didn't get him medical attention as soon as they realized something was wrong with him. What a horribly unjustifiable decision on their part.
.
The nagging question in my mind however is why Mr. Sherman's family didn't get him medical attention as soon as they realized something was wrong with him. What a horribly unjustifiable decision on their part.
4
Our standards for law enforcement are tragically too low.
14
At times I do sympathize with police, because they have to deal with a lot of deranged, dangerous people. They are expected to enter into situations fraught with unknown risks. They're expected to put their lives on the line, but not over-react, no matter what the provocation might be. I really do think they have a difficult job, and the public doesn't give them enough credit for the occupational dangers they face.
That said, in situation after situation, the impression one forms is, a small number of police officers (not all) behave like murderous Gestapo thugs. They shoot first and ask questions later. Like killer drones, they swarm in, and their victims have no idea what hit them. Like uncontrolled attack dogs, they roam in packs, with a tendency to overwhelm and overpower the people with whom they are dealing. Their instinct to use deadly force operates on a hair-trigger, and all too often, they take lives of others, not realizing they could have resolved situations by applying restraint and intelligence. They frequently torture (and sometimes kill) people with tasers. God help you if you happen to be Black, but as shown in this case, police violence can also be color-blind. What's sickest about this entire sorry mess is, the people running police departments are unwilling / unable to reel in these bad actors. The police who murdered this gentleman are still on the job, putting the public at risk. Shameful.
That said, in situation after situation, the impression one forms is, a small number of police officers (not all) behave like murderous Gestapo thugs. They shoot first and ask questions later. Like killer drones, they swarm in, and their victims have no idea what hit them. Like uncontrolled attack dogs, they roam in packs, with a tendency to overwhelm and overpower the people with whom they are dealing. Their instinct to use deadly force operates on a hair-trigger, and all too often, they take lives of others, not realizing they could have resolved situations by applying restraint and intelligence. They frequently torture (and sometimes kill) people with tasers. God help you if you happen to be Black, but as shown in this case, police violence can also be color-blind. What's sickest about this entire sorry mess is, the people running police departments are unwilling / unable to reel in these bad actors. The police who murdered this gentleman are still on the job, putting the public at risk. Shameful.
9
Wait a minute, this happened when? Last November? So now the NYT, undoubtedly tapped by a crew of family lawyers whose clients have something to gain by grabbing the media spotlight, patently play into this ruse with this lopsided reportage. Time to move on, nothing to see here. Call a NYT reporter next time you need help, not the police.
3
I expected this response.
A person, who is not in a wealthy area of NYC, is killed by cops. Huge outpouring of sympathy for the victim by the vast majority of NYT commenters. And I agree with the majority.
But earlier this week, a disturbed person was killed in a nice area of Mid-Town. Huge outpouring from NYT readers about how the police were right to kill the disturbed person - could have been 50% of the comments in favor of the killing. OMG - he disrupted people who were shopping in an upscale grocery!!!
A person, who is not in a wealthy area of NYC, is killed by cops. Huge outpouring of sympathy for the victim by the vast majority of NYT commenters. And I agree with the majority.
But earlier this week, a disturbed person was killed in a nice area of Mid-Town. Huge outpouring from NYT readers about how the police were right to kill the disturbed person - could have been 50% of the comments in favor of the killing. OMG - he disrupted people who were shopping in an upscale grocery!!!
8
David
Fairfax
"Huge outpouring from NYT readers about how the police were right to kill the disturbed person"
You must have been reading a different comment section.
Fairfax
"Huge outpouring from NYT readers about how the police were right to kill the disturbed person"
You must have been reading a different comment section.
4
One 'officer" tasered him while the other essentially stood on his chest-"with the force of the whole world". My guess is that without control of his voluntary muscles of the chest-which he would not have while being tasered- he could not expand his chest against the weight of the officer on top of him. He may have been suffocated. In the video there was no attempt to talk him down, they immediately began tasering. People don't normally say "I'm dead, I'm dead" which he had not said before and in fact was dead minute later. In the video even though he was not breathing I didn't notice that they tried breathe for him.
This is very sad. Too bad for the officers and nightmare for his family.
This is very sad. Too bad for the officers and nightmare for his family.
11
I don't usually watch these videos because I think it's not appropriate to look at images of other people being victims of violence. But I watched this one.
What a horrifying display of moronic brutality.
I just stay away from the police. I have frequent cause to call them due to conditions in my neighborhood, but they are always way more trouble than they're worth, so I don't.
Like most people these days, they react very badly to negative criticism.
It's not that hard to figure out if one has the ability to imagine what types of people end up doing this kind of work. Generally fairly poorly educated, serious self image issues, some sort of narcissism/hero complex extant and on and on.
I don't know what the answer is. I just don't bother with them. I don't think they can protect me, I don't rely on them to and I have no faith in them. They are armed and dangerous and that's about it.
Your mileage may vary.
What a horrifying display of moronic brutality.
I just stay away from the police. I have frequent cause to call them due to conditions in my neighborhood, but they are always way more trouble than they're worth, so I don't.
Like most people these days, they react very badly to negative criticism.
It's not that hard to figure out if one has the ability to imagine what types of people end up doing this kind of work. Generally fairly poorly educated, serious self image issues, some sort of narcissism/hero complex extant and on and on.
I don't know what the answer is. I just don't bother with them. I don't think they can protect me, I don't rely on them to and I have no faith in them. They are armed and dangerous and that's about it.
Your mileage may vary.
10
801Avd
It is a sad state of affairs we are in. We call them for help and then risk a huge 50% that they'll make it worse. I don't believe enough officers have the tools intellectually to deal with mental break downs or under the influence related episodes, plus proper handling of these tazers for God's sake. Everyone should be required to feel it once and learn the effects on the human body. Instead we have officers repeatedly filling people with currents, incapacitating them, causing involuntary movement and natural human instinct to stop the pain, reducing human beings to caged animals and them killing them for it.
It is a sad state of affairs we are in. We call them for help and then risk a huge 50% that they'll make it worse. I don't believe enough officers have the tools intellectually to deal with mental break downs or under the influence related episodes, plus proper handling of these tazers for God's sake. Everyone should be required to feel it once and learn the effects on the human body. Instead we have officers repeatedly filling people with currents, incapacitating them, causing involuntary movement and natural human instinct to stop the pain, reducing human beings to caged animals and them killing them for it.
2
Many non-white communities will not call or talk to the police any longer. African-American communities must stop calling the police. Children are killed by police because they have a toy gun. White children are not killed when playing with a toy gun. Old people in wheel chairs are killed by the police because we call he police to our communities. Stop calling them. They are not good for our community,
4
Watch mobs of liberals insist that tasers be taken away from police in some ersatz place, so then the shootings increase.
1
Police are criminals with uniforms and badges. The same sadistic, bullying personalities are attracted to both professions. The only difference is that police are sanctioned by the government.
1
We need people who are willing to lead and take charge but out of love for humanity and the need for a healthy order. There is use for all types of individuals in this world once they are taught the positive side to their personalities. I believe they need training and after so much chaos just as soldiers who have gone to war, officers need to be reintegrated into society just as incarcerated individuals do. They need to become human again.
3
I can't understand what the police wanted him to do. The officer(s) seemed completely panicked. Their instructions made no sense. There must be better training for the police.
10
The scene would have been riddled with spent cartridges had Chase been a man of color. That said, why would the family call the police? Why not call medical assistance or a friend? If you want a family member dead or mortally wounded, call the cops.
4
I imagine they called the cops because he was behaving so erratically - he even bit his girlfriend - that it was a danger to have him in the vehicle as they drove down the highway. He may have been so altered that there was a risk that he'd cause the driver to lose control of the vehicle, possibly resulting in injury or death to everyone in his car and in another vehicle. Phoning a friend in that situation would've been woefully inadequate.
That said - this never should've happened. The police seemed as frantic and panicked as Sherman - an understandably human reaction, but it seems police ought to have the training and resources to react differently. Using a Taser over and over, particularly on a man whose upper boy is pinned with "the weight of the world," is sure to result in serious injury or death.
That said - this never should've happened. The police seemed as frantic and panicked as Sherman - an understandably human reaction, but it seems police ought to have the training and resources to react differently. Using a Taser over and over, particularly on a man whose upper boy is pinned with "the weight of the world," is sure to result in serious injury or death.
2
They asked for medical assistance on the 911 call when they pulled over. The Emt came after the police arrived and he was the one that said "I've got all the weight of the world on this one". They still tazed him and he could not contract his muscles to breathe again. Ignorance on all parts on behalf of Police and medical personnel. His family called for help. They shouldn't be blamed.
6
I find it difficult to comprehend the officers actions with the Taser. The guy is handcuffed and in the back of the car, hardly a threat, particularly if you stand back a bit. It seems in most situations that police are called they deem the only appropriate response is violence, whether, man, woman or child. So much for serving the community.
8
Having seen persons who were either "Beyond High" on drugs or in the full throes of a "Psychotic Rage" take on four or more strong people who are just trying to hold them down so they don't hurt anyone or themselves and toss those person around like children - it does seem plausible that the Officers did what they thought they should do to restrain and control Mr. Sherman. The
circumstances of his being in the car and evidently taking one of the Officers Tasers and nearly breaking the handcuffs makes it understandable as to why they continue to "Taze" him.
When dealing with a person who does not have a weapon and maybe delusional
can't Police Officers be given larger flexible cuffs that might allow them
to tie the person's legs together, or arms, or at least allow one officer to tie down
one arm or leg and another officer tie down another arm or leg so they can at
least prevent the person from attacking anyone and then take the time to assess
the situation and proceed in the less violent method of completely subduing the person ?
Yes, it would take training, but I am sure all the Officers who responded to this call would have wished they had a better and safer way of handling such a tragic situation.
circumstances of his being in the car and evidently taking one of the Officers Tasers and nearly breaking the handcuffs makes it understandable as to why they continue to "Taze" him.
When dealing with a person who does not have a weapon and maybe delusional
can't Police Officers be given larger flexible cuffs that might allow them
to tie the person's legs together, or arms, or at least allow one officer to tie down
one arm or leg and another officer tie down another arm or leg so they can at
least prevent the person from attacking anyone and then take the time to assess
the situation and proceed in the less violent method of completely subduing the person ?
Yes, it would take training, but I am sure all the Officers who responded to this call would have wished they had a better and safer way of handling such a tragic situation.
6
Oh dear lord. My 14-year-old son has better de-escalation skills.
14
Wow, another example of reckless, unthinking violence on the part of police officers. If your loved one gets into any kind of emotional or psychological trouble it appears that the last thing you should do is call the police. All they know to do is to apply brute, lethal force. What do they actually teach in the police academies, nothing?
9
I sure hope the parents don't feel responsible. They called for help as good parents should, and could not possibly have foreseen what happened.
7
Shockingly stupid mindless and brutal.
These officers should go to prison.
These officers should go to prison.
4
Many are suggesting they should have simply left him in the car. What happens if he somehow commits suicide in the car or bolts into traffic and dies? Each and every one of you would say why didn't the cops do anything. Hindsight is always 20/20.
2
This guy belong in Jail.
I am deeply frustrated with Obama giving a free pass to the Police. Maybe he is not the one in control but the country needs a strong voice from the top and they are not getting it.
Stop using Teaser guns on people like kettle... I can't believe the guy was not concerned that he killed a person but that he may get fired.
Despicable and deplorable without words. There is no justice...
I am deeply frustrated with Obama giving a free pass to the Police. Maybe he is not the one in control but the country needs a strong voice from the top and they are not getting it.
Stop using Teaser guns on people like kettle... I can't believe the guy was not concerned that he killed a person but that he may get fired.
Despicable and deplorable without words. There is no justice...
One word: de-escalate.
3
Once again, the police are called to assist regarding a mentally ill person, with the death of the patient being the result. The video tape taken will demonstrate major errors in police procedure, which will hopefully lead to better police training. Maybe they will show this video in the classrooms of police academies all over the world. The mentally ill have rights too, and death at the hands of police is simply not acceptable for these people. I attended a 5K run recently sponsored by the local NAMI (National Association for the Mentally ill) chapter in my community, and thanked the local police organizations that came and participated. It's not difficult for police to identify a mentally ill person, and get the appropriate people at the scene to medicate and stabilize the patient. Murder by gun or taser is NOT a solution.
5
Its not only people of color that have to fear the police,
And the cops still have their jobs.
And the cops still have their jobs.
4
This is the era of militarized Police.
4
This is a tragic episode that could have been easily avoided with the use of reason and common sense by the police officers. The parents made the right decision to call 911, as they needed some help with the situation. However, the very poor judgment of the officers, and the unnecessary use of force combined with the firing a taser on a handcuffed man (15 times!), resulted in the tragic death of a son in front of his family. A police officer has to be ready to deal with a range of situations, and nothing in particular appears extraordinary in this case. Officers that make mistakes like this should not be allowed to continue working. They are not devoted to help citizens.
3
I sympathize with the police. Comments here seem glib when you are talking about coming up close to an aggressive man, not following commands grabbing your weapon on a dark road. We all want police to now be psychologists. But many violent criminals are drug users and/or have mental illness. We expect police to somehow make instant assessments and judge a person as "sad mental case who need psych care" and not "violent offender" when there is no easy categorization, and esp when we know that many individuals who get intensive psych treatment go on to commit violent, horrible crimes . Did this need to end the way it did? no. A deranged man reached for an officer's weapon. from that point it is not difficult to see this outcome. I also think we've gotten to the point where taking drugs has become so normal and accepted that somehow this excuses behavior. The family called 911 and maybe there needs to be a different # for a team of mental health professionals -- but i think many of these people could end up being killed/hurt because these are unpredictable, unstable people .
2
Maybe next time, don't use an illegal narcotic thinking its okay because it's synthetic. All due respect to the family who lost their loved one but this isn't the police officer's fault. If he didn't wig out on a narcotic, he would have never been in that situation before. I'm tired of everyone blaming the law enforcement yet ever conflict that arises is due to someone not complying or breaking the law. This is what happens when parents don't teach their children discipline and understand you have consequences for your actions. Sometimes dire ones. I hope the family takes this opportunity to teach how these narcotics can severely affect one's mental state and try to prevent other people from going down the same path.
6
This was an episode of psychosis. Instead of treating this as the psychiatric crisis it was, for which medical management was available, the police responded with tools better suited for controlling violence. Had this patient been brought to a hospital with a well-equipped emergency room, he could have received competent care. Shame on the police system for not better training its officers to recognize and handle psychosis and acute intoxication.
10
Why do cops think they can control every situation? What harm would there have been for everyone to step away and leave the boy to have his hallucination or crazy rant? Strength is not always shown with force.
My heart goes out to this family. That they had to witness their son's murder is incomprehensible.
Taking drugs led to this nightmare yes, but idiotic, hot-tempered policing crossed the line.
Prosecute all of them. Reform police brutality.
My heart goes out to this family. That they had to witness their son's murder is incomprehensible.
Taking drugs led to this nightmare yes, but idiotic, hot-tempered policing crossed the line.
Prosecute all of them. Reform police brutality.
2
They'll almost certainly rule this justifiable. but like most fatalities at the hands of police, this one was unnecessary.
The feeling among the police that every problem has to be solved immediately causes them to bring an unnecessary level of violence to confrontations. They could have gotten his parents out of the car, closed the doors and waited -- hours, if necessary -- for the man to calm down and regain rationality. The need to subdue him immediately is what led to his death.
This is the fault of general police procedures that emphasize ending every confrontation in as little time as possible without any harm coming to police. If it was as important for the individual they are subduing to still be alive when the confrontation ends, most of these deaths would never happen.
The feeling among the police that every problem has to be solved immediately causes them to bring an unnecessary level of violence to confrontations. They could have gotten his parents out of the car, closed the doors and waited -- hours, if necessary -- for the man to calm down and regain rationality. The need to subdue him immediately is what led to his death.
This is the fault of general police procedures that emphasize ending every confrontation in as little time as possible without any harm coming to police. If it was as important for the individual they are subduing to still be alive when the confrontation ends, most of these deaths would never happen.
3
It would seem that psychotic person on drugs would be one of the scenarios for which police be trained to handle.
Apparently not.
In Europe, they use cloth cord nets for cases like this one.
I would think the goal would be to resolve the crisis without anyone getting hurt or killed.
Apparently not.
In Europe, they use cloth cord nets for cases like this one.
I would think the goal would be to resolve the crisis without anyone getting hurt or killed.
3
The policeman's reaction to playing a role in killing a man was to worry about losing his job. The was not a matter of training, but a matter of his perception of what they feel that they can and cannot get away with.
2
Why isn't "de-escalation" ever considered by police? Close the guy in the car by himself and wait until he starts to calm down, then approach carefully? Are they paid a bonus for taking someone down as quickly as possible? The absolute lack of common sense exhibited in this situation and the dozens of others we've heard about over the last several years is just mind-boggling.
14
I concur with many of the other commenters. This was pure panic on the officers' part. Many police officers are simply unequipped to deal with situation like this; whether it be a mentally ill person or someone overdosing on a drug that gives them a dangerous reaction. I understand that the cops had a difficult situation to deal with, but they seemed completely out of their depths. You cannot taser a man that many times and expect him to live. Bottom line, police officers need to be much better trained in handling these situations as well as in assessing when their lives are truly at risk. Yes, the man was resisting arrest, and no doubt needed to be subdued, but he is clearly unarmed, and both the officers are bigger than him (and they are on top of him.) The man clearly isn't in his right mind and doesn't know what he's doing. Also, it's obvious the man is going to wiggle around when you're pouring that many volts of electricity into his body. Again, this is where American cops and European cops differ greatly. European cops realize they may get a few bumps and bruises when they confront an aggressive civilian, but using serious or lethal force is an absolute last option for them. We tax-paying citizens give our police an enormous amount of power. Most of us don't want fewer cops; we want better trained cops. We need nationwide reform. More and more video recordings, as well as citizen outrage, will help that happen.
16
This is so deeply disturbing. There is so much going on here. I grew up with a sister who had mental illness which included aggressive, violent episodes. When they occurred, we had to call the police for help because when she was psychotic she had massive strength and shocking abandon. A rational person, who remains conscious of normal limits of behavior, is no match for someone in this state. Eventually the police stopped responding when we called because they couldn't subdue her without getting extremely rough with her, and getting hurt themselves in the process, which embarrassed and enraged them. I recognize that rage in the near-hysterial tone of the one deputy's voice here.
As someone else posted here, it would make a lot more sense for police to have guns that delivered fast-acting tranquilizers than tazers. How I wish something like that had existed 45 years ago when my family had to deal with this. They did exist back then-- they were always used on "Wild Kingdom". Was it the association with capturing wild animals that kept tranquilizer guns from being developed for police use? They would be much safer than tazers and also calm down people in those critical moments of close encounters with police. And that would be safer for the police too.
As someone else posted here, it would make a lot more sense for police to have guns that delivered fast-acting tranquilizers than tazers. How I wish something like that had existed 45 years ago when my family had to deal with this. They did exist back then-- they were always used on "Wild Kingdom". Was it the association with capturing wild animals that kept tranquilizer guns from being developed for police use? They would be much safer than tazers and also calm down people in those critical moments of close encounters with police. And that would be safer for the police too.
31
There should be a mental health response team that goes out on these calls instead of just routinely sending police when the 911 calls come in.
5
Aren't police officers just stupid. How on earth are these people allowed to be in positions of power? No composure, tact or intelligent reading of the situation. What an embarassment for the United States of America as a whole.
21
Seems to me that tasers are not very useful in subduing a person experiencing a psychotic episode.
25
Here in the UK only one person has been killed by police so far this year. 3 were killed in 2015. A total of ONE in 2014, and NONE in 2013. One each in 2012, 11, and 10. In all, since 2000 only 34 people have been killed by the police in Britain, that is far fewer than have been killed in the US in 2016 alone, 54! Fifty-four people have been killed by US law enforcement in 2016; 390 in 2015 and a staggering 626 in 2014. Six hundred and twenty-six people killed by law enforcement in a single year in the US. It is true the population of Britain is only 1/5 of that in the US, but if we multiple the total five time since 2000 we are comparing 170 deaths in the UK since 1 January 2000, and 2676 deaths at the hands of law enforcement in the US dating back only to 1 January 2009. In actual numbers, in direct comparison since 2009 only 11 people have been killed by law enforcement in the UK: 11! 11 versus 2676! Multiple the UK deaths by 5 and one is still looking at a comparison of 55 versus 2676; 48 times as many killings. Clearly there must be other ways.
27
Based on some of these comments I've read if they were making policy and I were a legal counsel for police I would advise them to never respond to scenes with any possibility of violence...or would you have a problem with that too? Perhaps these cops should've let him continue acting this way. Perhaps it's OK he took hold of a police taser. Perhaps then they shouldn't be liable if they just stood by and watched him continue to terrorize his own mom and wife and possibly kill them or himself. Just because this guy said "ok, I quit" doesn't mean he still wasn't resisting. It's completely irresponsible as a human being to neglect the fact that this individual ingested some sort of illegal drug and the police were called due to his violence, he was violent with police, and he put the police in a position that forced them to go into self preservation mode as he continuously attempted to and in fact did take hold of a police weapon EVEN AFTER HE SAID "OK" indicating he wouldn't do that again. So do you really believe he was going to stop once he said he would "stop" a short time later?!
This is a sad a tragic result but the reality is that it ended the way it did as a result of this man's own behavior and perhaps his own choices to use drugs. Hine sight is always 20/20 but before you criticize someone (in a clearly thankless and dangerous job) put yourself in their shoes!
This is a sad a tragic result but the reality is that it ended the way it did as a result of this man's own behavior and perhaps his own choices to use drugs. Hine sight is always 20/20 but before you criticize someone (in a clearly thankless and dangerous job) put yourself in their shoes!
20
If I did what those police did, I would lapse into a fit of depression and do what many many police do....take out my weapon, aim it at my head and pull the trigger. That would be justice.
1
This was a completely preventable tragedy if common sense is applied. If you're trying to subdue someone in a closed space like the backseat of a car, all it will do is enhance a sense of claustrophobia that will make the subject act out even more and increase panic in the police. Using weapons like a Taser in close quarters is also going to prompt the subject to grab at it. So, despite having very little physical space in which to resist, Mr. Sherman was nevertheless shocked repeatedly by men who kept on shrieking the word "Relax!!!
Moreover, if this was an issue of public safety, why was the mother allowed to stay in the front part of the car for so long?
If they just pull him out of the vehicle and then subdue him, it is probably a different outcome. Or they could have left Mr. Sherman in the car until he calmed down -- it's not like they get paid by the call.
Perhaps most disturbing is the policeman's self-justification ("Look at what he did to my cuffs!") and his fears that he's going to be fired -- not the welfare of Mr. Sherman. And it is compounded by his supervisor saying it's okay, even though it is obviously not.
But scenarios like this will repeat endlessly if as a society we continue to treat the police officer's job as a blue collar position because of the presumed use of force that will be used, as opposed to a college degree-mandated white-collar job where police would be charged with using their heads to deescalate tensions and avoid the use of force.
Moreover, if this was an issue of public safety, why was the mother allowed to stay in the front part of the car for so long?
If they just pull him out of the vehicle and then subdue him, it is probably a different outcome. Or they could have left Mr. Sherman in the car until he calmed down -- it's not like they get paid by the call.
Perhaps most disturbing is the policeman's self-justification ("Look at what he did to my cuffs!") and his fears that he's going to be fired -- not the welfare of Mr. Sherman. And it is compounded by his supervisor saying it's okay, even though it is obviously not.
But scenarios like this will repeat endlessly if as a society we continue to treat the police officer's job as a blue collar position because of the presumed use of force that will be used, as opposed to a college degree-mandated white-collar job where police would be charged with using their heads to deescalate tensions and avoid the use of force.
23
This is tragic, of course. But I don't understand why anyone expects more than handcuffing, tasing, beating or shooting from police in this kind of situation. Law enforcement is a hammer and every problem they see is a nail. As much as law enforcement needs to learn how to deal with African-Americans, they need to learn to handle the mentally ill, or those having a mental episode, even more.
21
The cop kills a guy and he is worried about getting fired. That says it all.
30
The cop didn't get fired. That says something too.
4
This is a tough call: The subject/victim was past control even after being cuffed and (initially) tasered. Even with restraint and a big guy on top of him, he would not stop. He is hallucinating; who knows what demons in his mind were attacking him? The cops were doing the best they could to a person in obvious pain and distress endangering himself and those nearby, without malice. I suggest he stopped breathing because the big guy on top kept him from taking a breathe. I'm very sorry for the family, the kid and the cops.
11
Police are not well trained, at all. They get away with crimes that would put the common man in jail. There are a lot of these "bad apples". Seems like all that they have to do is scream "stop resisting" and they can get away with murder.Disgusting. If I were being electrocuted to the point that I thought I was dying, I would try to stop the person from doing it, too. A man can walk towards a cop with a stick and be killed on the spot if the cop "feared for his life". But if someone ran at me with a stick and I shot and killed them, i'd go to prison, or spend the next 5 years and all of my money in court trying to defend that choice. But not cops, nope. Apparently they have more rights than other people.
19
Police train less with their weapons than most citizens that I know, personally.
4
Policing is probably like medical, they practice.
Why did they repeatedly use the taser? Mutiple times? Doesn't make sense?
14
Because he bit his fiancé, and continued to struggle against the cops when they were trying to take him into custody.
5
Many cops are big knuckleheads with guns and Tasers who immediately resort to violence. Be careful.
20
There's an unfortunate reality that underlies so many of these cases and that is there is simply no reliable humane way to subdue someone who does not want to be subdued. As the suspect resists the police use more violence and tasers which just strengthens the impulse to further resist and flee. Tasers often do more harm than good but that is the device officers have been told to use. A tranquilizer gun with the mentally ill or drug crazed might work but we might find it has it's own problems.
7
I grew up in a time when police officers were often called "pigs." A friend was a police officer, as were people whose riot gear scared me. At a demonstration, we were told to raise our fists in the air. Over and over. The raised arms reminded me of films of Nazi rallies; I left. This doesn't mean I was thoughtful or intelligent, just that I noticed things occasionally. And I had the advantage of pallid skin. In the past few years, I've seen terrible videos of people being hurt or killed by police officers. Often these people have more melanin in their skin than I do. I know we live in a country whose tragedy is the abnormally stupid superstition that tan skin, coffee colored skin--that skin with more melanin than my skin has MEANS something, which it doesn't, and that the something may be negative. (Race does not actually exist.) Well we need to get over the superstition.. Police need much more training; theirs is a job like parenting, impossible to do right every time, but trying to do it right matters. Yes the cops may well be frightened. Citizens get frightened when they're severely mixed up, having a psychotic break, or see cars and uniforms they perceive as hostile.
6
The cop did his job. The young man killed himself.
10
Some people will justify any sort of reckless, stupid conduct on the part of law enforcement. The guy was having a psychotic episode. He didn't even know what he was doing and was phycically unable to control hinself.
3
I just want to point out that this man was combative and trying to remove and did take a taster from one of the officers. The officers responded to begin with because of the violent nature of this persons behavior. They didn't know who he was or what his circumstances were but the police are charged with protecting citizens and themselves from this behavior. Perhaps this should be a lesson on why drugs are a nightmare plaguing some communities rather than a way to criticize a police officer for doing his job.
Do any of you behave this way? Who would try to remove a weapon from and cop and fight them like this man did? The answer is: a person who is capable of killing a cop just because he is a cop or because he's tripping on spice or because he's mentally unstable or a combo of all 3...how would a cop distinguish between any of these in that moment and does it matter if he could when we all know what mentally unstable people are capable of?
Do any of you behave this way? Who would try to remove a weapon from and cop and fight them like this man did? The answer is: a person who is capable of killing a cop just because he is a cop or because he's tripping on spice or because he's mentally unstable or a combo of all 3...how would a cop distinguish between any of these in that moment and does it matter if he could when we all know what mentally unstable people are capable of?
9
Why didn't the cops get everyone else out of the car, lock the guy inside, talk to the family to find out what was going on and just wait him out?While doing so they could have called in mental health providers and other experts and/or worked out a rational plan to defuse the guy and smooth him out.
2
I know that I do not, but I can't say that I am mentally unstable or under the influence of unknown drugs.
Why not step back from that situation? Ask the family members to leave the vehicle and try to contain the situation rather than imposing force. To my eyes he was incapable of harming anyone while handcuffed in the back seat. By imposing themselves they invited exactly the behavior you described of trying to remove the weapon. Again why not step back from that situation and understand if you don't feel like it's safe or you're unprepared to deal with an irrational person let someone who is better qualified to deal with the problem.
Why not step back from that situation? Ask the family members to leave the vehicle and try to contain the situation rather than imposing force. To my eyes he was incapable of harming anyone while handcuffed in the back seat. By imposing themselves they invited exactly the behavior you described of trying to remove the weapon. Again why not step back from that situation and understand if you don't feel like it's safe or you're unprepared to deal with an irrational person let someone who is better qualified to deal with the problem.
1
This was a medical emergency, based on the family's history. The man should have been handcuffed to an immovable object and an ambulance called. He should not have been touched otherwise.
The criminalization of real marijuana is a huge factor. He had apparently smoked the fake (legal?) stuff, and the uncontrollable psychotic reactions led to the tragedy as reported/alleged.
The terrible opioid overdose epidemic/phenomenon of one person dying per minute (per hour?) is a consequence of the absurd schedule one felony substance.
Because the anti legal potters are flummoxed in uncompromising foolish dogma, many folks do not yet realize that marijuana is a relatively benign pain reliever.
Florida has held a referendum on "medical marijuana," but the legalization did not get the required sixty percent vote, though it did get over fifty percent,
Please, people: I personally do not perceive that growing teenagers should do their "weed," because there is apparently some actual truth about its negative effect on the immature brain, but those eighteen and over should have the choice.
I would never claim that marijuana or any other drug or substance such as sugar is perfection, but the deaths are apparently not coming from addicted pot-heads.
The epidemic of diabetes II is no secret either.
The terrible opioid overdose epidemic/phenomenon of one person dying per minute (per hour?) is a consequence of the absurd schedule one felony substance.
Because the anti legal potters are flummoxed in uncompromising foolish dogma, many folks do not yet realize that marijuana is a relatively benign pain reliever.
Florida has held a referendum on "medical marijuana," but the legalization did not get the required sixty percent vote, though it did get over fifty percent,
Please, people: I personally do not perceive that growing teenagers should do their "weed," because there is apparently some actual truth about its negative effect on the immature brain, but those eighteen and over should have the choice.
I would never claim that marijuana or any other drug or substance such as sugar is perfection, but the deaths are apparently not coming from addicted pot-heads.
The epidemic of diabetes II is no secret either.
2
Meanness plays a role. But listen, we live in a police state now.
Don't be surprised. It came to us because of fear. The fear has been hammered into the populace, primarily through talk radio, for-profit churches, Republican politicos trying to get power, and the for-profit-media. You are living in a land of fear.
It is exactly the reason a bumpkin like Trump somehow has appeal to some people. Same thing: a populace steeped in its own fear. It's why we have 22x more guns per capita than we had after WW2.
Fear, ignorance, meanness, desire .... they all go together. It's going to be interesting over the next 50 years to see how the US stuffs its rightwing droppings back in the bottle.
Don't be surprised. It came to us because of fear. The fear has been hammered into the populace, primarily through talk radio, for-profit churches, Republican politicos trying to get power, and the for-profit-media. You are living in a land of fear.
It is exactly the reason a bumpkin like Trump somehow has appeal to some people. Same thing: a populace steeped in its own fear. It's why we have 22x more guns per capita than we had after WW2.
Fear, ignorance, meanness, desire .... they all go together. It's going to be interesting over the next 50 years to see how the US stuffs its rightwing droppings back in the bottle.
18
I was really impressed by how much more concerned the other officers were with covering that rogue cop's butt than they were with the fact that they were standing next to a cadaver and a screaming and tearful wife/girlfriend.. "Your ok." they said, "Your good" speaking of the rogue cop's defense story.
I want a strong police force, capable of protecting me and mine, but this was nothing but disgusting. That guy was someone's son, someone's love, and someone's brother. Ugh - absolutely disgusting.
I want a strong police force, capable of protecting me and mine, but this was nothing but disgusting. That guy was someone's son, someone's love, and someone's brother. Ugh - absolutely disgusting.
31
Unfortunately police are mostly (with some exceptions) blue collar workers who are not educated, trained, or paid to exercise the nuanced thinking of a psychiatrist or a lawyer.
14
From what I can see, the first officer who was doing all the loud yelling bears most of the blame. Even after the victim seemed to be subdued and the other officer was restraining him and speaking calmly to him, the first guy continued to yell and was firing the taser as it was pressed against the victim's skin, which is not how the taser is supposed to be used.
He reminds me of a more sinister Barney Fife, the type who can't keep his cool and always wants to use excessive force to cover up his fear.
He reminds me of a more sinister Barney Fife, the type who can't keep his cool and always wants to use excessive force to cover up his fear.
14
Barney Fife would have had too much judgment and humanity for that.
2
The taser should have been used on the rogue officer. That would stop him. Problem solved.
1
We need to change who we recruit to be police officers. These men were frustrated that he was not compliant, and then fell into enjoying torturing the man while he died. Tasers need to be taken away from them, but we also just need to stop recruiting people who are so lacking in self awareness, and incapable of imagining what the other person is thinking or feeling. Think of the people you know who might have the skill set and personality to do this job well. How many of them would even apply?
17
I can't believe that these supposed protectors of the public actually killed this man in front of his fiancee, mother and father. And then they have the audacity to stand around talking about getting fired. They killed a man for no other reason than he wouldn't listen to their commands. They totally failed at the task of helping someone who desperately needed cool hands, calm voices and good technique. I want to fire the entire Police Department never mind these beknighted fools. Nobody knows how to do a thing but kill someone, do they?
19
Parents, please drive your son to the hospital, they can help him, even when drugs is the reason, they will not arrest them there. Cops no longer serve and protect.
32
Mr. Sherman was murdered, apparently by taser or asphyxiation or both, and the deputy's only expressed concern is about losing his job.
It is impossible to understand why these deputies and the medical technician have not been arrested for murder.
It is even more incomprehensible to read that they have not been suspended pending an investigation, but continue to work.
It is impossible to understand why these deputies and the medical technician have not been arrested for murder.
It is even more incomprehensible to read that they have not been suspended pending an investigation, but continue to work.
27
The man was out of control, grabbed the officer's taser, and was physically fighting them. Backing away from the person was not a viable alternative since he could have run into the highway or tried to drive the car away. I do not see the police having any choice but doing what they did.
5
I can think of lots and lots of alternatives.
2
How would he operate a vehicle with his hands handcuffed behind his back? Unlikely.
Why not close the doors to the vehicle and contain him? It's highly unlikely that he would be able to unlock the doors.
Why not close the doors to the vehicle and contain him? It's highly unlikely that he would be able to unlock the doors.
There is always a choice. The man's family could have tried harder and not call for help. That was another choice.
Here we go, from Wikipedia:
Taser International has stated in a training bulletin that repeated blasts of a taser can "impair breathing and respiration". Also, on Taser's website[21] it is stated that, for a subject in a state described as "excited delirium", repeated or prolonged stuns with the Taser can contribute to "significant and potentially fatal health risks".[15] (The term "excited delirium" is not recognized by the American Medical Association or American Psychological Association.[23] but was recently recognized by the American College of Emergency Physicians). In such a state, physical restraint by the police coupled with the exertion by the subject are considered likely to result in death or more injuries.
It sounds like this is textbook for what you want to do if you want to kill someone with a taser. Do they train these people to use these things or just hand them to them and say 'go to town'?
Taser International has stated in a training bulletin that repeated blasts of a taser can "impair breathing and respiration". Also, on Taser's website[21] it is stated that, for a subject in a state described as "excited delirium", repeated or prolonged stuns with the Taser can contribute to "significant and potentially fatal health risks".[15] (The term "excited delirium" is not recognized by the American Medical Association or American Psychological Association.[23] but was recently recognized by the American College of Emergency Physicians). In such a state, physical restraint by the police coupled with the exertion by the subject are considered likely to result in death or more injuries.
It sounds like this is textbook for what you want to do if you want to kill someone with a taser. Do they train these people to use these things or just hand them to them and say 'go to town'?
28
Apparently, he did not quit soon enough.
7
It will never stop ..cops are the biggest gang in the US and need to be losing 2 for every one they take...no respect for anyone who has a badge
7
When I, a 54 year old, educated, professional white woman, of reasonably sound mind, fears the police and finds the few law enforcement officers I do encounter to be ignoramuses, I'd say we're living in a police state.
25
If you're not outraged by that video, you are cold-blooded.
13
Having taken care of patients on "spice" I feel for the police in this situation. The super human strength, scary erratic behavior is terrifying in a controlled environment - it is as if you are dealing with a shell of a person who, under the effects of these chemical combinations, cannot relate to you in a human way - add being in a vehicle on a busy highway with family screaming and no way to get him into a secure environment and this was the perfect storm. Do people criticizing the police think that they want to respond to a call of someone hallucinating after taking drugs on a highway? Do they want to harm him? No, absolutely not and its absurd to think otherwise. If you do then you have never dealt with someone having a bad reaction to these chemicals. Should they have shut the door to the car and walked away until EMS was there? Maybe, but would you have been just as critical if they were trying to step away and he jumped out of the car and was hit and killed on the road? Everyone is quick to judge but unless you were in the situation how could you know what really happened, body cams are only one view. Also, the blame could certainly be shared. This was a 32 year old man taking substances known to cause these types of reactions and presumably knew the risks. And he had been acting erratically for days and his family did not get him medical attention but the blame should be on the police? I think not.
7
I personally don't think that what the officers did was willful. But, they should have an understanding that the use of force didn't appear to be helping the situation.
You mention that if the man had run out into the road and been killed that we would immediately put the blame on the cops for not doing something. In this situation though I doubt that it would be getting much attention if that had been the outcome.
You mention that if the man had run out into the road and been killed that we would immediately put the blame on the cops for not doing something. In this situation though I doubt that it would be getting much attention if that had been the outcome.
The police exposed themselves as incompetent and sadistic. I fear the police as much as I fear walking thru gangland Chicago...well maybe not that much. Than Emanuel is a scary dude.
Please stop calling the Police everywhere for anything and the lower crime reporting will result in mass layoffs.
That's justice our way.
That's justice our way.
4
The overwhelming number of commenters here are pleading for justice and judging the police officers as murderers. Also many of the commenters here seem to think that every situation can be calmed, like in the movies where some guy is convinced to come down from a ledge. They also seem to think it is easy to pin, hold, and keep a man down. They seem to think that a guy with his hands cuffed in front of his body is no longer a threat. Some suggest locking the man in the car; some suggest letting the man out of the car. One suggested shooting the man with a tranquilizer. Some commenters suggest never calling the police for help. Currently the number one comment says not to call the police because they are not competent - that comment is a NYT pick and a top recommendation. Brilliant. Well, it seems to me that policing is extraordinarily dangerous. But maybe some of the commenters would like to change careers and show us how easy it can be.
7
The sad fact is, I would think twice about calling the police in a situation like this. They don't have the training or the disposition. Even body cameras don't seem to help. How is it that they could not restrain this man and wait for additional help if they were not able to handle the situation themselves. Anyone, when tasered is going to "resist." Imagine what his parents are going through...And all they wanted was help.
15
Americans should remember, the police aren't there to help you. Never involve the police if you can handle the situation yourself. Drive home, calm your son down, and get him professional help like at a rehab center. Watch this from 3:20 mark https://youtu.be/OSkl38Qi-y4
10
Agree completely, but folks who aren't familiar with how things work wind up calling 911 thinking an ambulance with paramedics will respond. Seems that police are routinely dispatched for these mental health emergencies and that needs to be addressed.
The Washington Post report on police shootings revealed that a large portion of people shot and killed by cops were mentally ill.
The Washington Post report on police shootings revealed that a large portion of people shot and killed by cops were mentally ill.
1
Cops = gangs with badges.
12
Disgusting.
8
Police in general seem to draw from the type of people who were school bullies, so maybe it's not a good idea to call them unless things are really bad. The officers seem to be justified in this case, though.
4
The poise in effect murdered a man who was hallucinating. All they had to was handcuff him , and place him in solitary for 24 hours. They must of done this many times, and maybe many of these sadistic officers look forward to torturing innocent civilians. Either these officers have not been properly trained, or they feel that they will not be punished after injuring and murdering innocent civilians. A man whowas hallucinating somehow dies from officers who continually tortured him. How many others did this occur to with no videotape?
I would investigate all of their prior arrests, and search for bullying and intimidation. Maybe a number of people need to be released.
I would investigate all of their prior arrests, and search for bullying and intimidation. Maybe a number of people need to be released.
8
How would a reporter have handled the situation?
2
This is unforgivable. Everyone involved should be criminally charged with this young man's death. I'm for doing away with Tasers all together. There are too many idiots in law enforcement that either aren't properly trained in how to use them or they are so uncaring that they enjoy using them to inflict pain. Whatever the case may be, they should be taken out of the hands of ALL law enforcement agencies. There's already been one death too many.
7
These brutal killings by police officers all over the country can all be largely explained by the concept of "moral hazard." The key issue here is that by and large, when police officers break the law, they are hardly ever held responsible, and much less are they punished for their crimes.
This state of affairs can be blamed on a type of social dysfunction that renders average citizens incapable of properly exercising their responsibilities required by a democratic type of government. Thus atrophied, average citizens become submissive and compliant to the desires of what are essentially their masters, or what can be described as a sociopathic ruling elite.
This leads to an unhealthy adulation of authority, which creates the conditions under which those in power can commit crimes with total impunity, whether Wall Street crooks crashing the economy, the politicians on the take, or police officers killing innocent people.
This state of affairs can be blamed on a type of social dysfunction that renders average citizens incapable of properly exercising their responsibilities required by a democratic type of government. Thus atrophied, average citizens become submissive and compliant to the desires of what are essentially their masters, or what can be described as a sociopathic ruling elite.
This leads to an unhealthy adulation of authority, which creates the conditions under which those in power can commit crimes with total impunity, whether Wall Street crooks crashing the economy, the politicians on the take, or police officers killing innocent people.
4
It is fairly obvious that this wasn't motivated by racism or any other prejudice, and it gives us a chance to see this problem with clarity. It is the sad story of police officers being sent in to resolve a situation they were painfully not trained to handle - no different from sending unarmed soldiers off to battle, or sending firemen into a burning building without protective gear. These officers were put in a situation where they used the only devices available at their disposal to protect themselves. If we don't collectively fund public services that enable the police force to train personnel for these type of situations, we are commissioning a broken legal system that doles out the capital punishment, without judge or jury, to anyone who is mentally unstable.
6
More like sending armed mercenaries with a license to shoot into a city. Oh, we did that in Iraq? Never mind.
1
Funding means money. We have no money to fund infrastructure needs or mental health care. We need money to fund the insatiable super rich and to spend trillions funding wars we inevitably lose.
This should be a warning to all in how synthetic marijuana works on people. I hear that the ER will send someone home and a week later they will have an episode. Synthetic marijuana has NOTHING to do with real marijuana. Please don't ever entertain the thought of putting something so destructive in your body and educate your children so they don't either.
10
Having said this man's killing was uncalled for, our larger society must take some responsibility for the rampant drug abuse in America. Here in Colorado pot is legal in smaller amounts and isn't harmless, as some people do have a mentally-allergic-type reactions to strong pot, aka the much ridiculed "reefer madness" episode with paranoid delusions that can, like bad LSD trips, be triggered post-first-episode by environmental factors, usually stress of some kind. It's cut and dry, the person was "normal" before trying pot, and the pot caused the subsequent adverse psychological affects, altered the person's brain chemistry for the worse. For these people, like alcoholics, abstinence for life is probably the easiest and best route to take, brain chemistry balance can be regained through abstinence. Pot advocates say the person was probably "crazy" to begin with and the pot just sped up the inevitable psychological breaks but this is nonsense, and even malicious.
Marijuana isn't harmless for everyone. Other "synthetic" mind-altering drugs are probably worse though. Being totally sober beats any artificial high and usually keeps one away from encounters with the authorities in any country.
Marijuana isn't harmless for everyone. Other "synthetic" mind-altering drugs are probably worse though. Being totally sober beats any artificial high and usually keeps one away from encounters with the authorities in any country.
3
cops, deputies, even EMTs need to be screened for judgement ability
oh, yeah, and an IQ of at least 65--clearly lacking here\\
HOW STUPID CAN YOU GET??
oh, yeah, and an IQ of at least 65--clearly lacking here\\
HOW STUPID CAN YOU GET??
11
He shouldn't have resisted". I say this to purposely be provocative. When a black man is killed by police in similar circumstances the response by many is to blame the victim... Do those of you who argued this when it occurrs to a black man still believe this argument. I doubt it
1
Once upon a time we had mental hospitals and these sorts of people could live in a supportive environment. Our lawyers and civil libertarians in an unholy alliance with the medical industry and the politicians managed to destroy that system, that for all its failures, was far more humane than our sink or swim environment of community care we have now. I am sure that this person's medical records will show significant behavior issues.
4
I doubt it. Acute drug induced psychosis. This happens tens of thousands of times per week in the u.s.
You really need to think twice before calling police to "help" in family situations.
8
It's now after 8 pm and I just watched the video for the first time.
Even the cameras are worthless now.
They did not deter the savages. They simply used the cameras to tell lies as it happened.
That was truly disgusting.
God Bless Chase Sherman. Please highlight the continuing stories following this killing. The only remaining justice in this Prison Police Predator nation is in the Press.
Even the cameras are worthless now.
They did not deter the savages. They simply used the cameras to tell lies as it happened.
That was truly disgusting.
God Bless Chase Sherman. Please highlight the continuing stories following this killing. The only remaining justice in this Prison Police Predator nation is in the Press.
6
Aside from the fact that too many cops are prone to violence, uneducated and the wrong person for the job, I cannot blame the cops in this video. When you fight the cops, anything can happen. This guy is so high on drugs, he probably died from the drugI I give the cops a pass on this one.
"Dude...I'm so fired."
Well, you should be, and the policeman apparently knows it. He knows he went overboard, overreacting. But the other officers just guffaw...nah, you're good, son, it's all good these days.
This is one of the worst videos I've ever seen, just brutal to watch.
The worst part was the mother, pleading, even commanding them to "not shoot him", staying in the car knowing her son was being assaulted dangerously.
And then, her weeping by the side of the road.
That terrible weeping, and pain.
And now?
Now?
She lives with the knowledge that she called her son's murderers to come kill him.
Think of that. Really think about it.
Well, you should be, and the policeman apparently knows it. He knows he went overboard, overreacting. But the other officers just guffaw...nah, you're good, son, it's all good these days.
This is one of the worst videos I've ever seen, just brutal to watch.
The worst part was the mother, pleading, even commanding them to "not shoot him", staying in the car knowing her son was being assaulted dangerously.
And then, her weeping by the side of the road.
That terrible weeping, and pain.
And now?
Now?
She lives with the knowledge that she called her son's murderers to come kill him.
Think of that. Really think about it.
28
Yep. Don't worry. It's all good. You've just been involved in killing a man, but no problem.
You'll be back at work tomorrow.
Hey, good old boys cover each other.
You'll be back at work tomorrow.
Hey, good old boys cover each other.
9
Chase Sherman was handcuffed and in the back seat of a private vehicle. I cannot understand why the deputies didn't just get the keys, get out of the van, shut the doors and wait. Instead they tase and scream and curse a man who they knew was mentally unstable.
People talk about more training. For goodness sake, it is common sense to not scream in the face of someone who is emotionally distraught or erratic.
People talk about more training. For goodness sake, it is common sense to not scream in the face of someone who is emotionally distraught or erratic.
17
It's also common sense to stop, take it slow and ascertain that that 12 year old African-American child has a toy gun instead of screeching in within a few feet of him and immediately gut shooting him.
2
I have investigated similar custody deaths. Ultimately the drugs in the system cause the body to not respond to logic. they get held down and they die. google it. no drugs, no death.
But to Michael's point, if they did not have tasers they would have punched him multiple times but probably not fatal. The liberals begged for these less lethal toys, and they fail with drug addled suspects
But to Michael's point, if they did not have tasers they would have punched him multiple times but probably not fatal. The liberals begged for these less lethal toys, and they fail with drug addled suspects
2
The video never explained how Mr. Sherman was handcuffed at the first place, so I would say he was cooperative and he lets the sheriff handcuffed him but as soon as he was handcuffed, the mistreatment started that's why he started to resist!
6
1
Police work is difficult, and sometimes confusing. This is not one of those cases. These officers and the EMT tortured Mr. Sherman to death during a psychotic episode of some kind.
There is tragic, and then there is this: an entirely avoidable death. The excitability and lack of professionalism by the officers is particularly depressing. Do these folks receive any serious training?
There is tragic, and then there is this: an entirely avoidable death. The excitability and lack of professionalism by the officers is particularly depressing. Do these folks receive any serious training?
11
He wasn't going anywhere. Why not take everyone out of the car and leave him in there until they had enough LEO to safely remove him from the vehicle? There was no need to be aggressive. All they had to do was contain him until he left the vehicle voluntarily or tired himself out.
8
Heartbreaking. Just heartbreaking. I feel so, so sad and concerned for our country when monsters like these men roam the streets (in black and white cars).
8
Not to mention with badges and guns.
2
from the article: “For four minutes and 10 seconds after he said ‘I quit,’ they still tased him and kept him on the ground. That’s torture, and they killed him.”
Police exact revenge on anyone, no matter how wretched or out-of-their-mind with acute psychiatric symptoms, for ANY form of resistance. The good people of this country (yes, you know who you are...) who've had pleasant encounters with police their whole lives, are stunned when it either happens to their loved one, usually a young dependent or a young adult, or to them.
I seem to remember a few police who would counsel different ways to behave as officers in contact with mentally ill patients, but those voices are increasingly harder to hear, harder to find. Instead, the us vs. them mentality has taken hold, and it shows, it shows terribly, tragically, almost every day now, a new encounter, a new senseless death.
Police exact revenge on anyone, no matter how wretched or out-of-their-mind with acute psychiatric symptoms, for ANY form of resistance. The good people of this country (yes, you know who you are...) who've had pleasant encounters with police their whole lives, are stunned when it either happens to their loved one, usually a young dependent or a young adult, or to them.
I seem to remember a few police who would counsel different ways to behave as officers in contact with mentally ill patients, but those voices are increasingly harder to hear, harder to find. Instead, the us vs. them mentality has taken hold, and it shows, it shows terribly, tragically, almost every day now, a new encounter, a new senseless death.
16
Tasers have already be classified by the UN as torture weapons.
I don't see why we should have cops carrying torture weapons around.
They obviously don't work to subdue people.
This situation could have easily been handled just by keeping him in the car until he calmed down.
He wasn't hurting or endangering anyone. Therefore there was no call to use tasers on him.
I don't see why we should have cops carrying torture weapons around.
They obviously don't work to subdue people.
This situation could have easily been handled just by keeping him in the car until he calmed down.
He wasn't hurting or endangering anyone. Therefore there was no call to use tasers on him.
6
How sad that the NYTimes of all media outlets is resorting to putting up disingenuous headlines in order to send its core, liberal readership into a misguided frenzy once again about their imagined conspiracy that the police are all racist or psychotic murderers.
The deceased, Chase Sherman (a white man), said "I quit" after also saying "I'm dead" as he struggled for several minutes to take the officers' tasers away from them. He wasn't some innocent victim of the Left's imagined police brutality, he was a violent psychotic resisting arrest and trying to disarm police in order to use those arms against the policemen as evidenced by his fight against them.
For those on the Left who think the police also need to be equipped with nursing skills and syringes full of calming agents, it "ain't" ever going to happen because the police are law enforcement agents, not nurses. If you violently resist arrest, regardless of your skin color, the police will rightfully enforce their powers to subdue you with whatever means necessary. But lovely Monday-morning quarterbacking, gang.
The deceased, Chase Sherman (a white man), said "I quit" after also saying "I'm dead" as he struggled for several minutes to take the officers' tasers away from them. He wasn't some innocent victim of the Left's imagined police brutality, he was a violent psychotic resisting arrest and trying to disarm police in order to use those arms against the policemen as evidenced by his fight against them.
For those on the Left who think the police also need to be equipped with nursing skills and syringes full of calming agents, it "ain't" ever going to happen because the police are law enforcement agents, not nurses. If you violently resist arrest, regardless of your skin color, the police will rightfully enforce their powers to subdue you with whatever means necessary. But lovely Monday-morning quarterbacking, gang.
4
"If you violently resist arrest, regardless of your skin color, the police will rightfully enforce their powers to subdue you with whatever means necessary."
Exactly! Not even an innocent, white family, on the road away from home, should be so innocent as to believe that "To protect and to serve" lie.
Exactly! Not even an innocent, white family, on the road away from home, should be so innocent as to believe that "To protect and to serve" lie.
2
A taser is not a non-lethal weapon. It is a less lethal, or less-than-lethal weapon. But still a weapon and quite capable of killing someone one.
Same goes for punching someone in the face - sometimes it kills. Or putting someone's weight on top of a person lying on the ground - sometimes it kills.
Handcuffing someone in the front is also nearly useless to subdue them.
Net/net - the officers were totally unprepared to deal with this situation, and totally unaware of the lethal consequences of many of their actions.
But their conduct falls short of being a crime.
Why this family decided to call the police or 911 is beyond me. With 3 (or 4) other adults in the car, they should have been driving him to the nearest ER.
Same goes for punching someone in the face - sometimes it kills. Or putting someone's weight on top of a person lying on the ground - sometimes it kills.
Handcuffing someone in the front is also nearly useless to subdue them.
Net/net - the officers were totally unprepared to deal with this situation, and totally unaware of the lethal consequences of many of their actions.
But their conduct falls short of being a crime.
Why this family decided to call the police or 911 is beyond me. With 3 (or 4) other adults in the car, they should have been driving him to the nearest ER.
3
"Why this family decided to call the police or 911 is beyond me."
My guess: the duty of the police is "to protect and to serve."
"With 3 (or 4) other adults in the car, they should have been driving him to the nearest ER."
Where was the nearest ER located, Baron? Do you know? You don't? They didn't know, either. That's why the police took control of the situation and _escorted_ them to the ER!
Wait, what? The police *didn't* do that? Bizarre.
My guess: the duty of the police is "to protect and to serve."
"With 3 (or 4) other adults in the car, they should have been driving him to the nearest ER."
Where was the nearest ER located, Baron? Do you know? You don't? They didn't know, either. That's why the police took control of the situation and _escorted_ them to the ER!
Wait, what? The police *didn't* do that? Bizarre.
3
I feel so bad for the mom who watched her son die . But how did he obtain the taser handcuffed?
1
Many, many accusations towards the police but few ideas as to how the police should have responded to the family's call for assistance. What should they have done? Suppose the police refused to use force sufficient to restrain Sherman? If this happened and he severely injured someone or jumped in front of a car and killed not only himself but the occupants of the car who would be blamed? Would the police be culpable? I'm sure many would say "yes". It truly seems like a no-win situation for the police.
4
But, James B, the police _didn't_ "refuse to use force." Rather, they didn't hesitate to use force. It's part of their job of protecting and of serving the general public..
1
The common defense for police in these cases is that the cause of death was drug-induced excited delirium, not excessive force by police. While there is controversy about whether "excited delirium" is an actual medical condition, it is clear that police need more training in the restraint of psychotic individuals.
6
"I quit," says the unfortunate mentally ill man.
Ah, you may give up, you may be finished, but my friend, the police are not yet through with you.
Ubiquitous cameras have caught the 'punishment' inflicted by officers unable or unwilling to control themselves, jumping five or more on the perpetrator, shouting "Stop resisting," while exacting revenge for the relatively new American crime of lack of immediate submission with lack of adequate kow-towing. . . everyone knows the score on the streets, it's the fragile officer ego extravaganza. witnessed with the arrest of a postal service officer by nypd's finest, the choking out of a dangerous loose cigarettes proprietor, several Texas stops resulting in a) death on the streets, or b) death in their jails, or some unfortunate reaching for a wallet who gets shot for his trouble by a panicky, immature officer bent on his own safety at all costs, while ignoring the former requirement that they protect the public.
As with trickle-down economics, and de-regulation that will surely bring jobs to us all, the shooting and beating and tasing to death of subjects coming into "contact" with our police (this gives the acronym, TIC, troops in contact, regrettable new meaning in the US when a veteran is handled by over zealous, brutalizing police), and deaths including and especially tragically mishandling the mentally ill, has become so ubiquitous as to become cliche.
This cannot continue. It will not. People will no longer stand for it.
Ah, you may give up, you may be finished, but my friend, the police are not yet through with you.
Ubiquitous cameras have caught the 'punishment' inflicted by officers unable or unwilling to control themselves, jumping five or more on the perpetrator, shouting "Stop resisting," while exacting revenge for the relatively new American crime of lack of immediate submission with lack of adequate kow-towing. . . everyone knows the score on the streets, it's the fragile officer ego extravaganza. witnessed with the arrest of a postal service officer by nypd's finest, the choking out of a dangerous loose cigarettes proprietor, several Texas stops resulting in a) death on the streets, or b) death in their jails, or some unfortunate reaching for a wallet who gets shot for his trouble by a panicky, immature officer bent on his own safety at all costs, while ignoring the former requirement that they protect the public.
As with trickle-down economics, and de-regulation that will surely bring jobs to us all, the shooting and beating and tasing to death of subjects coming into "contact" with our police (this gives the acronym, TIC, troops in contact, regrettable new meaning in the US when a veteran is handled by over zealous, brutalizing police), and deaths including and especially tragically mishandling the mentally ill, has become so ubiquitous as to become cliche.
This cannot continue. It will not. People will no longer stand for it.
6
Sure they will. We will be reading this story again in 10 years....
Appalling chain of events... All the more so because the officers at the end of the video were clearly more concerned about job loss than the fact that a man was just needlessly killed.
11
So who was responsible for the man's death? The cops, who tried to help even if poorly, or the man who took drugs?
another lesson in why you shouldn't do drugs. but this man was incorrectly handcuffed.
Police needed to get the people in the front out of the car and away from it.
Police then needed to leave the man in the car incorrectly handcuffed by himself and just lean against thee doors to keep him inside and let him spaz or wait till he either calmed down or passed out.
Clearly this was a 5 or 6 car event. Some officers to control traffic others to assist arresting officers.
Biggest problem is police are trained to gain immediate compliance, humans are not training dummies.
Police are falsely trained to believe that if they don't get immediate compliance, that their life is then endangered with each second that goes by, therefore putting themselves into a self induced excited state or frenzie, when a life threatening situation does not really exist.
By using rubber bullets or gas , this man's life need not have been ended by over excited police.
Police needed to get the people in the front out of the car and away from it.
Police then needed to leave the man in the car incorrectly handcuffed by himself and just lean against thee doors to keep him inside and let him spaz or wait till he either calmed down or passed out.
Clearly this was a 5 or 6 car event. Some officers to control traffic others to assist arresting officers.
Biggest problem is police are trained to gain immediate compliance, humans are not training dummies.
Police are falsely trained to believe that if they don't get immediate compliance, that their life is then endangered with each second that goes by, therefore putting themselves into a self induced excited state or frenzie, when a life threatening situation does not really exist.
By using rubber bullets or gas , this man's life need not have been ended by over excited police.
8
I dunno about this one folks... you're a cop, you pull up to a call and here's this guy who vehemently won't respond to verbal entreaties... what would you do? The fact that one taser shot didn't even slow the guy down? Usually one of those jolts is quite effective, people go limp and become responsive to persons trying to help them. What would the rescue squad have done if they had gotten there first? "Call for backup!" would be the first thing they'd say, meaning the cops. Or just let the guy out of the car, so he can tear off into the woods.. or into traffic? Or he doesn't get out of the car, just keeps thrashing around, a danger to himself or whoever tries to help? Having watched the scene I am also of the opinion that the mother, when she said "don't shoot him", meant don't use a firearm.
So are we not supposed to mention "PCP" anymore so as to not stigmatize pot's chance at getting the legal nod? (it's "synthetic marijuana"; the organic stuff is still in the clear for it's upcoming turn at the polls). Because the guy's behaviour in this tragic episode matches a lot of the PCP horror stories of 80's and 90's.
I remind all of you armchair generals / screaming mimis that at no time did I mount a defense of the cops with any more strident a legal turn of phrase than "I dunno..."
But... how many of you out there are also thinking in the rottenest little part of your souls: "oh, boy... lucky thing he was white..." No show of hands necessary.
So are we not supposed to mention "PCP" anymore so as to not stigmatize pot's chance at getting the legal nod? (it's "synthetic marijuana"; the organic stuff is still in the clear for it's upcoming turn at the polls). Because the guy's behaviour in this tragic episode matches a lot of the PCP horror stories of 80's and 90's.
I remind all of you armchair generals / screaming mimis that at no time did I mount a defense of the cops with any more strident a legal turn of phrase than "I dunno..."
But... how many of you out there are also thinking in the rottenest little part of your souls: "oh, boy... lucky thing he was white..." No show of hands necessary.
4
I am so very sad to read this. It could have been so many of our sons or daughters. I believe the cops too often are not prepared to deal with psychiatric and substance abuse crises. It looks like we should drive to a good psychiatric hospital in such situations. Heartfelt condolences to his fiance and family.
5
"It looks like we should drive to a good psychiatric hospital in such situations."
If you're _in your hometown_ and know where even a _bad_ pyschiatric hospital is, I'll shake your hand.
However, if you're not in your hometown or even in your home state and are stopped by the side of the Interstate, then it makes complete sense to appeal to that dedicated body of civil servants whose very purpose it is "to protect and to serve" the general public.
Doesn't it?
If you're _in your hometown_ and know where even a _bad_ pyschiatric hospital is, I'll shake your hand.
However, if you're not in your hometown or even in your home state and are stopped by the side of the Interstate, then it makes complete sense to appeal to that dedicated body of civil servants whose very purpose it is "to protect and to serve" the general public.
Doesn't it?
4
Is there really still someone left in this country who would even consider calling the police for help?
16
Not me. Never again. If catastrophic, I'll call SFFD.
5
There have been a lot of instances in Canada, where people have been tasered to death by obviously abusive police practices. One very notorious example happened at Vancouver Airport, when the RCMP tasered repeatedly an unarmed Polish immigrant, Robert Dziekanski, who had been waiting for over 12 hours, causing his death, because he didn't know English, and couldn't respond to the officers' questions. And all he had in his hands was an office stapler! And did you know that the Vancouver Transit Police would routinely taser people suspected of evading a $2 transit fare?!
5
This is exactly the kind of situation that a restraining bag would be perfect for. They should have used one.
Oh, I forgot, some "expert" has decided that it damages the dignity of the ill individual as the NY Times recently discussed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/14/nyregion/new-york-polices-use-of-restr...
I think perhaps his family would have been happier with his dignity damaged and his life intact.
Oh, I forgot, some "expert" has decided that it damages the dignity of the ill individual as the NY Times recently discussed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/14/nyregion/new-york-polices-use-of-restr...
I think perhaps his family would have been happier with his dignity damaged and his life intact.
6
Yes, and why did we introduce tasers to the police force - to provide a less lethal option than firing a gun. Well it seems we need to be like France, where cops just get a baton and a whistle.
3
The issue of law enforcement personnel encounters with the mentally ill is out there, we all know about it. It's unforgivable and unjustifiable to have the police react with deadly violence against non-criminals. It shouldn't take millions of dollars and years of re-training. Just stop killing people.
8
In 2004 the FBI warned police forces that white extremists were infiltrating its ranks.
Could this be an underlying cause of white, young, male police officers killing unarmed & unrestrained black males & females. On the videos, these officers look cool, calm and collected. As if killing a human being means nothing to them. The San Francisco debacle, in which racists KKK-era texts were exchanged by seven officers supports this idea. It really calls for a piece of investigative journalism and federal inquiry into the recruiting & training practices of the police forces.
All, uneducated, white males that apply for police service should be thoroughly investigated for white supremacists ties.
Enough is enough. The 50s style lynchings are on the rise again, this time on camera.
Could this be an underlying cause of white, young, male police officers killing unarmed & unrestrained black males & females. On the videos, these officers look cool, calm and collected. As if killing a human being means nothing to them. The San Francisco debacle, in which racists KKK-era texts were exchanged by seven officers supports this idea. It really calls for a piece of investigative journalism and federal inquiry into the recruiting & training practices of the police forces.
All, uneducated, white males that apply for police service should be thoroughly investigated for white supremacists ties.
Enough is enough. The 50s style lynchings are on the rise again, this time on camera.
9
What does your comment regarding race have anything to do with this video? Were the cops really attempting to kill the man? Lynching? I don't view your comment having any grounding in reality or relevance to this issue.
4
In America, when you call the police to intervene on your behalf, anything can happen up to and including death. There is Hollywood version of American police. Then there is real life police. Most black Americans know the latter intimately. Most whites still believe the former.
21
As a parent of a chronically mentally ill young man with whom I live in a predominantly African American housing project, I just feel compelled to say that it would be most helpful in the long run just to say that mental illness precludes any other, additional grouping; mental illness if one of those great levelers, unfortunately, in which all are just honestly dismissed as a little less of a person, similar to racial problems. I hope readers will understand I am trying to make a unifying and compassionate outcry for unbiased help and understanding of our mentally ill brothers and sisters. It has been a lesson of love for my life;I wish society including police could understand someday.
10
Similar to the Kelly Thomas case. It seems mentally ill or paranoid people are extra susceptible to homicide by law enforcement, similar to black men or other minorities. Shameful. Scares me, as my sister's schizophrenic. I've already warned her about police.
6
I'm sorry, the guy tried to take the cops weapon. Whos to say he wouldn't have eventually got to his gun? And decided to kill his parents or shoot at cars driving by.
I'm sorry, what? He was handcuffed. How could he have taken the weapon and start firing? An unarmed man was killed by the police in front of his family. It's a tragedy, not just punishment.
2
If only had had complied.... Such a tired excuse.
3
"the guy tried to take the cops weapon."
Therefore, his death was but God's righteous judgment, as any Chrishtan will tell you. Read the Bible.
Therefore, his death was but God's righteous judgment, as any Chrishtan will tell you. Read the Bible.
2
Hogtie Position
Forensics A highly restrictive position—handcuffed wrists are tethered to restrained ankles, and legs are flexed back so that the person is bent backwards; hog-tying is used to restrain a violent person, but, because it carries an increased risk of breathing/airway problems, the hogtied person must immediately be placed on the right side, until transfer to hospital restraints can be effected
Forensics A highly restrictive position—handcuffed wrists are tethered to restrained ankles, and legs are flexed back so that the person is bent backwards; hog-tying is used to restrain a violent person, but, because it carries an increased risk of breathing/airway problems, the hogtied person must immediately be placed on the right side, until transfer to hospital restraints can be effected
There will be another multi-million dollar lawsuit paid by Georgia taxpayers. If these settlements came out of the police pension funds, there would be fewer incidents like this.
12
So you would penalize all police for a failure of some police, police management and public policy makers? This is an example of acceptance by society and policy makers.
1
U.S. law enforcement has an obsession with compliance over safety or protection. These stories continuously appear of parents calling for assistance, having police officers arrive rather than medical help such as paramedics, and although the police are told that the person in question is suffering from a mental or drug induced episode of distress, the police kill the person for their lack of compliance and/or "resistance" to their authority. Imagine how differently this scenario could have been had a paramedic been requested by the police, who could have sedated or otherwise intervened with the man, understanding that he was hallucinating. People hallucinating, either because they are on drugs or experiencing a psychotic or schizoid break, should not be summarily killed. Safety should be the number one priority, but that includes the safety of everyone, even if not especially the person hallucinating. Context is everything here. The parents were present and explained the situation! I worry that increasingly it is becoming clear that those in need of medical assistance will NOT call 911 if it frequently ends with the police arriving and killing people. This creates a hazardous environment for us all.
16
If anyone else handcuffed a person and then tasered him to death, they would get 20 to life.
But since it's a cop, it's okay.
But since it's a cop, it's okay.
15
The death of this man was tragic but so was the pandering headline used by Times. To ascribe rational thought for his statement, "I quit" runs counter to basic facts of a person who is hallucinating, attempting to jump out of a moving car, fought as through on PCP through the affects of multiple taser shots. For the Times to highlight this statement is at best pandering and worst incendiary and anti-police.
"To ascribe rational thought for his statement, 'I quit' runs counter to basic facts of a person who is hallucinating, attempting to jump out of a moving car, fought as through on PCP through the affects of multiple taser shots."
Of course, the decision to continue to use "multiple taser shots," when one should have been enough _is_ an instance of "rational thought."
By the way, Chris, has it escaped your notice that The Times has provided the video, allowing readers to make up their own minds, without being concerned whether some readers may draw some entirely inane conclusion at odds with that of The Times and then make iconclusion, void of content though it be, public at the expense of The Times? Way to pander and be anti-police! Am I right?
Of course, the decision to continue to use "multiple taser shots," when one should have been enough _is_ an instance of "rational thought."
By the way, Chris, has it escaped your notice that The Times has provided the video, allowing readers to make up their own minds, without being concerned whether some readers may draw some entirely inane conclusion at odds with that of The Times and then make iconclusion, void of content though it be, public at the expense of The Times? Way to pander and be anti-police! Am I right?
1
The video shows overly aggressive police officers. If an individual is in a confused state due to drugs or a psychotic episode, police trying to wrest the person to the ground while continually using a taser is frightening - to anyone. The instinct would be to fight back. It is also true that people in a psychotic state are surprisingly strong. Regardless, the police response would exacerbate the situation. Deinstitutionalization has led to larger numbers of encounters between the mentally ill and police. Perhaps social workers should be assigned to police jurisdictions and accompany officers on all calls. Not everything should be handled with a muscular approach. This is especially true when dealing with the mentally ill.
1
"people in a psychotic state are surprisingly strong"
especially when electricity from a taser is coursing along their nerves.
especially when electricity from a taser is coursing along their nerves.
1
I agree with those who say that the officers seem ill-equipped and ill-trained for this type of medical call. That the decedent was not a danger to those around him is evidenced by the fact that his mother and fiancé were still in the car. Their shocked reaction to the way the police were subduing the victim says it all.
7
One question I have is why wasn't medical help sought when Mr. Sherman began behaving erratically while in the Dominican Republic, or even when the family returned to Atlanta and his behavior worsened enough for them to decide to drive to Florida instead of fly? The young man's mother had already been told by her son that he had taken drugs prior to his unstable behavior. I am not blaming the victim or his family. Nor to I wish to appear insensitive. I am just saying that choices were made that ended in tragedy that was compounded by the fact that the police apparently were poorly trained for handling the situation they encountered.
3
"I am not blaming the victim or his family. Nor [d]o I wish to appear insensitive."
Yet, somehow, that's exactly what you're doing. You see, only _one_ of the choices that were made ended in tragedy: the choice to believe that the primary function of the police is "to protect and to serve" the general public.
Yet, somehow, that's exactly what you're doing. You see, only _one_ of the choices that were made ended in tragedy: the choice to believe that the primary function of the police is "to protect and to serve" the general public.
2
Given that we have seen in the past that police officers are not always trained properly in handling a situation such as occurred with this young man, I was just wondering why medical attention was not the first avenue of choice when it became obvious the young man was having a serious reaction to drugs he had taken. I apologize for seeming insensitive. This was a tragedy for all concerned.
500 persons have already been killed by tasers & it's time to re-evaluate these 'new cop toys' & study how lethal they can be before allowing their continued use. I don't think in this case police would have used their glock, but would have done whatever they did in the past to subdue someone without a taser. Would have gotten their hands dirty physically subduing him, he had no weapon & was one person against several.
4
Two months ago, Outside of Atlanta, my nephew, 28 yrs. old was waiting for a ride from a friend in front of a "Denny's"-like restaurant at about 2 AM. The Police on patrol apprehended my nephew and took him behind the diner (where there are no camera's) and beat him, braking bone's which the Doctors concluded could only have been from blunt-force such as a night-stick, not "falling" as the police reported.
This stuff is real and very sad. Do we want to live in a country where the innocent are beaten by Police?
This stuff is real and very sad. Do we want to live in a country where the innocent are beaten by Police?
7
Is anyone surprised by this? It seems to happen every day now, a new story of "murder by police". I will never forget when I had to drive to upstate Connecticut, and the car I was driving had a lapsed registration (I was an overwhelmed college student & simply had forgotten to renew it). I had gotten fast food and was stopped in a parking lot to eat it, when a cop car drove by slowly, before turning into the lot and driving past me. I knew what was coming, so I mentally prepared myself. But it was almost laughable when the cop pulled up in front of me as if I was a suspect in a bank heist, shining every bright light on me, as I sat there, burger in hand. I had my window rolled down already, so when he began to approach, I greeted him and began to explain. Strangely, he did respond to any of it, and seemed somewhat flustered that I was so forthcoming. He began going through the script, "What are you doing here tonight?" which I had already answered. By the time backup came it felt like an surreal joke. To the point where, when he asked if I was moving drugs, I laughed. I got lucky. I was in possession of my faculties, didnt have a panic disorder, am I relatively cute, clean cut looking white woman. But I wonder what would have happened had I been freaked out by the sudden lights or intense questioning. I think it's symptomatic of a larger overzealousness from the cops & a lack of humanity, where they just follow some police textbook instead of actually engaging as humans.
8
when will the police learn, violence is used not for their convenience, but public safety. A raving madness, used to be pretty common. Common sense said stay away until they are exhausted.
1
A classic example of ignorant and Poorly trained officer. This individual was undergoing a psychotic break possibly caused by the use of synthetic marijuana.
He exhibited paranoia and delusion per reports by family members who stated he used the drug.
Had these officers been trained in crisis intervention techniques they could have responded differently. It is way cheaper to properly train law enforcement officer to handle these types of citations than to face the high cost of litigations.
He exhibited paranoia and delusion per reports by family members who stated he used the drug.
Had these officers been trained in crisis intervention techniques they could have responded differently. It is way cheaper to properly train law enforcement officer to handle these types of citations than to face the high cost of litigations.
5
Several year ago my mother was tased by the police. The officer, who was over 6 feet tall and weighed in excess of 200 pounds, felt threatened by an irrational, 100 pound, 70 year old grandmother suffering from Alzheimer's. She was not a threat to anyone, but was tased, handcuffed, and hauled away to the county jail. Something is terribly wrong with law enforcement in America today. Things will not improve until police officers are held accountable for their actions.
18
It's very interesting when there's a white person killed by a police officer it's flat-out murder by the hands of cops but the comments would be totally different and the police officers would have been justified and used reasonable force had he been black.
4
Seems to be the same story over and over again.
In this country, police officers are more often agents of violence and mayhem rather than peace officers. Their actions seem to be those of a paramilitary occupying force of oppression rather than officers who are members of the community.
It is striking that these men seemed to want physical and psychological submission to their will, rather than to take a careful, professional assessment of the situation and defusing it so that all might have the best chance at being unharmed. All Americans deserve better.
In this country, police officers are more often agents of violence and mayhem rather than peace officers. Their actions seem to be those of a paramilitary occupying force of oppression rather than officers who are members of the community.
It is striking that these men seemed to want physical and psychological submission to their will, rather than to take a careful, professional assessment of the situation and defusing it so that all might have the best chance at being unharmed. All Americans deserve better.
16
This is what happens when you refuse to fund crisis intervention mental health services by trained professionals. You get cops who behave like complete idiots. This was murder by Taser, nothing less.
11
This was murder by neglect. He chose to take Spice. No one forced him to do it. His parents were well aware of his drug use. His parents saw disturbing behavior in the Dominican Republic but let him board the plane and possibly endanger others. In Atlanta they saw further disturbing behavior but chose to drive home rather than have him admitted to a hospital. They then dumped the problem on local sheriff's deputies who were not trained to handle out of control drug addicts. It would be nice if every local deputy sheriff was a mental health expert but that is not going to happen. The sheriff's deputies could have reacted in a better manner but Mr. Sherman and his parents could have acted in a better manner and not put untrained individuals in a terrible position.
1
I once worked in a state mental health hospital where there were predicabbly incidents and outbursts, some of them violent. That happens with emotionally and mentally challenged patients despite being heavily medicated. Not once did we fail to restrain them or otherwise diffuse the situation using practiced, non-violent techniques.
Watching this video turns my stomach. The response of law enforcement to this situation is unacceptable and disgraceful. It demonstrates abuse of power and a protocol based in ignorance. None of the individuals involved belong behind a badge. Those in supervisory roles should also be held accountable.
Watching this video turns my stomach. The response of law enforcement to this situation is unacceptable and disgraceful. It demonstrates abuse of power and a protocol based in ignorance. None of the individuals involved belong behind a badge. Those in supervisory roles should also be held accountable.
17
I wonder how the thoughtful and kind readers would have dealt with this situation. Easy to criticize will sipping wine and reading at home. Much harder when dealing with the deranged and violent in society.
3
I sure wouldn't have tortured him. Probably shut the doors and let him rant while I kicked back. But that's just me.
2
I worked with violent teens, so I can be pretty sure I would not fall into this pattern of behavior. Really they are like the youth I worked with, looking for absolute compliance, and enjoying inflicting pain. They did not mean to enjoy it to the degree it killed him, but they did.
2
In Europe one hardly sees situations like this. It is unbelievable and heartbreaking. Officers should be the persons who de-escalate and protect with non-violence.
The job for officers is harder every day, but still i think their highest goal is to protect all people without harming them. Their frustration should be let out in the gym! Not the other way around.
The job for officers is harder every day, but still i think their highest goal is to protect all people without harming them. Their frustration should be let out in the gym! Not the other way around.
3
When are people going to learn that police abuse and brutality is NOT a racial thing? Yes, many police have racist beliefs and sometimes act on them. But police are emotional human beings before they are racists. Police know they can get away with anything including murder just by making completely false accusations or exaggerated accusations. Or by using their usual "I thought he had a weapon and I feared for my life". In reality, they are usually doing exactly what was done here, they were punishing the victim for doing something that angered the cop.
The real culprits are the prosecutors who refuse to prosecute cops, the so-called "good" cops who lie to protect the bad cops, and the stupid public who sit on grand juries and juries who refuse to indict or acquit these people doing evil. Since the bad cops have no fear of prosecution or even job discipline, they abuse again and again.
The real culprits are the prosecutors who refuse to prosecute cops, the so-called "good" cops who lie to protect the bad cops, and the stupid public who sit on grand juries and juries who refuse to indict or acquit these people doing evil. Since the bad cops have no fear of prosecution or even job discipline, they abuse again and again.
8
Rather than give cops training in dealing with mental health crises, why not create Mental Health Crisis squads?
These plain-clothed, well-trained mental health professionals would be armed with their knowledge, expertise, and empathy. Sure, send along an armed cop as an escort, but after ascertaining that the citizen isn't armed, anyone wearing a uniform should retreat to the car and only approach if requested by the MHC.
A lot more people would likely make it into a hospital or mental health center.
These plain-clothed, well-trained mental health professionals would be armed with their knowledge, expertise, and empathy. Sure, send along an armed cop as an escort, but after ascertaining that the citizen isn't armed, anyone wearing a uniform should retreat to the car and only approach if requested by the MHC.
A lot more people would likely make it into a hospital or mental health center.
2
For all the advances of western civilization it is astonishing how uncivilized we have become.
1
the situation makes sense to me. first the police use illegal procedures on blacks resulting in deaths.they got away with it.
now is the turn for white people. first the police will do it in rural counties where people are most likely to give the police a bye, then eventually they will do the same to white people in the major white cities like ny, chicago and and LA.
now is the turn for white people. first the police will do it in rural counties where people are most likely to give the police a bye, then eventually they will do the same to white people in the major white cities like ny, chicago and and LA.
6
These so-called "less lethal" weapons look more deadly every day. While I can't say if these officers acted appropriately, this does seem to me to be a chaotic scene where adrenaline and confusion mix to create a deadly cocktail.
I suspect officers have a tendency to want to apply "one last" zap with tasers make sure the "fight" has gone out of a suspect; in the heat of the moment, when the victim thrashes around involuntarily they interpret this as "resisting" and continue acting as if he/she is still fighting them.
As others have noted, officers seem to show less restraint in applying tasers multiple times, perhaps because taser advertising and experience has conditioned them to believe that tasers do not kill. But taser electricity in the human body is a complex mix of mechanics, environment, and biology; what is lethal for one individual may barely register for another.
Maybe it's time to reconsider if these weapons are what we thought they were. Maybe we should consider changing our rules of engagement for officers with Tasers, restricting the numbers of charges the devices can hold or the conditions that must be met before their use is authorized. When Sandra Bland was arrested, the officer in question threatened to "light her up" for simply refusing to exit her vehicle. Perhaps we should treat the discharge of these weapons with the same severity and investigative rigor as an officer's gun being discharged.
I suspect officers have a tendency to want to apply "one last" zap with tasers make sure the "fight" has gone out of a suspect; in the heat of the moment, when the victim thrashes around involuntarily they interpret this as "resisting" and continue acting as if he/she is still fighting them.
As others have noted, officers seem to show less restraint in applying tasers multiple times, perhaps because taser advertising and experience has conditioned them to believe that tasers do not kill. But taser electricity in the human body is a complex mix of mechanics, environment, and biology; what is lethal for one individual may barely register for another.
Maybe it's time to reconsider if these weapons are what we thought they were. Maybe we should consider changing our rules of engagement for officers with Tasers, restricting the numbers of charges the devices can hold or the conditions that must be met before their use is authorized. When Sandra Bland was arrested, the officer in question threatened to "light her up" for simply refusing to exit her vehicle. Perhaps we should treat the discharge of these weapons with the same severity and investigative rigor as an officer's gun being discharged.
6
This is yet another instance of an individual experiencing a true mental health emergency who is injured and/or killed by the police. Law enforcement needs far better training regarding when to call for medical help when faced with a person in the throes of a mental health crisis. This is reminiscent of the NYT story about the young man having a manic episode due to bipolar disorder who was shot by hospital security personnel.
2
I bet if the victim had been black most of the comments here would have accused him of being at fault.
3
it's a tough gig. but this one ? More sad proof of the need for more training in 'de-escalation' techniques.
6
Those involved with this awful crime should be tried for murder. There is no excuse for this kind of behavior. Cops do not have the right to kill innocent people.
6
I would like to think that these officers would be given desk duty and retraining. Be taught compassion and legal ways of policing, but then it is
georgia and the good old boys feel that they are empowered.
georgia and the good old boys feel that they are empowered.
6
No. They are not trainable. They need to find new jobs at a cement company or some such, they cannot be trusted with power.
4
The culture of confrontation and total compliance that's endemic in police training killed Chase Sherman and failed these officers.
11
Many excellent comnents here pointing out why this man did not need to die. Why he should not have died.
Permit me, therefore, for once to try to play the devil's advocate for all the Devils in their blue uniforms. One time I carried out a citizen's arrest up here on a violent, furious and intoxicated thug, while I was holding him down on the road-surface in a scarf-hold trying to restrain him he bit my hand deeply. So, later, I had to go get tested for HIV and hepatitis, and ended up on an expensive and inconvenient course of injections I had to pay for. I've still got the bite-scars on my hand eighteen years later.
It was two in the morning, I was just wearing a pair of shorts at the time and, obviously, didn't have any cuffs or zip-ties I could use to restrain his wrists. In any case, he was extremely strong and I doubt if unassisted I could have got cuffs on him even if I'd had them.
Mental illness, physical strength and bulk, plus recreational psychedelics are a dangerous and volatile mix. And these big psychotic violent males *are* dangerous and scary, they really are, no two ways about it. In my view, you do need to have engaged in unrestrained, genuine combat with one of these unpredictable individuals in order properly to be able to appreciate this.
Permit me, therefore, for once to try to play the devil's advocate for all the Devils in their blue uniforms. One time I carried out a citizen's arrest up here on a violent, furious and intoxicated thug, while I was holding him down on the road-surface in a scarf-hold trying to restrain him he bit my hand deeply. So, later, I had to go get tested for HIV and hepatitis, and ended up on an expensive and inconvenient course of injections I had to pay for. I've still got the bite-scars on my hand eighteen years later.
It was two in the morning, I was just wearing a pair of shorts at the time and, obviously, didn't have any cuffs or zip-ties I could use to restrain his wrists. In any case, he was extremely strong and I doubt if unassisted I could have got cuffs on him even if I'd had them.
Mental illness, physical strength and bulk, plus recreational psychedelics are a dangerous and volatile mix. And these big psychotic violent males *are* dangerous and scary, they really are, no two ways about it. In my view, you do need to have engaged in unrestrained, genuine combat with one of these unpredictable individuals in order properly to be able to appreciate this.
5
Easy for people to say how to handle a situation like this when they aren't in it; maybe if people didn't act like total belligerent idiots they wouldn't find themselves in situations like this. Unfortunately this is not an example, as far as I am concerned, of police negligence...though many situations like this are completely uncalled for.
5
Police have a choice whether to be police and exercise their authority and power over citizens. Whereas citizens have no choice whether a cop exercises their power over them.
Police have the entire responsibility for making certain that their behavior is proper.
Police have the entire responsibility for making certain that their behavior is proper.
3
This is a tragedy that I wish had been avoided, yet I understand the fear of the policemen when he grabbed the taser and their inability to simply isolate him and wait, since he was trying to run out on a busy highway and endanger himself and others. I wonder if the policemen had any training in recognizing signs of mental illness--or in the health effects of more than a dozen taser shots (although clearly the first 10 or so did not subdue the victim.
It is also a reminder that perhaps not all such tragedies involving minority victims were motivated by racism, rather than the combination of panic and seemingly unnecessarily excessive force we see here.
It is also a reminder that perhaps not all such tragedies involving minority victims were motivated by racism, rather than the combination of panic and seemingly unnecessarily excessive force we see here.
4
The word "Tragedy" to define a murder started here in New York. It wasn't a tragedy. It was a killing. Don't be duped into feeling depressed or sad. Be angry. The cops are totally out-of-control. Even the Justice Department F.B.I. Director Comey complained the cops weren't aggressive enough, instead of prosecuting the killer cops.
3
1st things first, never. Ever. Never. Ever. Call the police. Ever. Call a lawyer, call the hospital, call family, call close friends. Never call the police.
1.1. Never talk to the police. You have no statement about nothing. Ever. You can provide information to them if you must, through your lawyer. Otherwise take the detention, shut up, and wait. Be cool.
2nd.
The police, in fact the nation, is very lucky that this was a blonde haired white guy, and not a minority. The race baiting is so far overblown, and this case proves that the police aren't necessarily racists, they are statists: We are all equally worthless. Sad fact is more white people are killed by police than any other race, by far. But it doesnt fit the narrative of the left when a whitey is killed by the cops, so, no outrage for this guy.
There was a time for over a hundred years, where we had no Police for the most part, and life got on just fine without em.
1.1. Never talk to the police. You have no statement about nothing. Ever. You can provide information to them if you must, through your lawyer. Otherwise take the detention, shut up, and wait. Be cool.
2nd.
The police, in fact the nation, is very lucky that this was a blonde haired white guy, and not a minority. The race baiting is so far overblown, and this case proves that the police aren't necessarily racists, they are statists: We are all equally worthless. Sad fact is more white people are killed by police than any other race, by far. But it doesnt fit the narrative of the left when a whitey is killed by the cops, so, no outrage for this guy.
There was a time for over a hundred years, where we had no Police for the most part, and life got on just fine without em.
10
All it takes is common sense to understand that a handcuffed person, even a erratic individual will not be helped by tasering him multiple times. How stupid are cops? Tasers are NOT harmless and maybe police nationally should tell beat cops to ease off this kind of extreme punishment, some might class torture. If the aslant is handcuffed and your continuing to taser him you obviously don't know what your doing. These guys in story sound like, well, murderers.
53
Handcuffed people have gotten their hands on guns. Tasing can definitely be overdone and should be avoided, and I never heard a good reason for doing it twice to someone.
It's certainly torture and a tragedy and a gross violation of this man's human rights regardless if he's intoxicated. It would be better to handcuff him to some immovable object somewhere out of harms way, his and others harm, and call one of his relatives to come and get him. The state killing intoxicated American citizens when a family intervention is required is over-reach. We're too comfortable killing our own people, incidents like this rarely if ever happen in England and the British get falling down drunk quite often and in large numbers. Police work as teams of 5-6 to there to subdue a drunk and get them off the street and to safety, their safety and others. The British way requires some serious work, significant effort, they work for every pence they make but keep their citizens alive and British families whole.
3
It should be possible for us to develop ways to restrain people that are safer and more effective than handcuffs and threatened use of tasers or guns. Some sort of tranquilizer is one obvious answer, although with people who are already on some sort of drug there might be interactions. Another answer would be some sort of net, instant glue, or ropes that would immobilize someone without having an officer wrestle.
6
This situation was in full chaos as the officers arrived on the scene. We do not know what their information was on arrival. We may know what they were told, but that may not have been accurate. Few of us go to work every day with the knowledge that we may not come back.
How about locking the guy in the car till more competent people arrive.
2
Yet another case of American police brutality - an epidemic by now, which puts the United States in no privileged position to preach to other countries about human rights and the dignity of the individual.
29
It's abundantly obvious what the officers should have done in this situation. Rather than trying to subdue the person, the officers (who were called to the scene by parents obviously concerned enough about their son's behavior to call for help) should have adopted a stance of supportive, yet passive engagement with the violent person. They should have stood aside quietly and conducted a 3-5 minute psychological evaluation of the person, discussing with him the reasons he felt he needed to act out. If he decided to amuse himself by seizing their their weapons during this assessment, they should have allowed him to, in a spirit of reconciliation and trust building. I suspect that after a few harmless rounds fired and perhaps a go or two at the officers with their Taser, he would have been satisfied and become compliant. The officers should have been better trained to know that their responsibility to the safety of the public, their families and themselves does not extend to forcibly subduing violent people after jumping to the almost always false assumption that suspects' actions are dangerous, fueled by drugs that can give them superhuman strength, or even remotely ill-intended.
12
Cute answer. How about just letting the already handcuffed man act out and calm down in a locked car instead of engaging him further? The cops enflamed this situation, per usual. May is Mental Health awareness month. Apparently, these officers aren't very aware!
4
Nice sarcasm, but there was no need for them to remove him from the car or engage with him physically at all. He presented no immediate threat and was not violent until they tried to restrain him. They could have easily stood back and observed from a safe distance.
3
You would think that having been informed that the subject was having a mental health crisis, most likely due to a reaction to a specific drug, that the first person you would want on the scene would be a paramedic or a doctor with expertise in such cases. Since no one is being threatened and the subject is in the car in handcuffs even, what's the hurry? Why not take the time for experts to get there, maybe talk to the guy, see if he calms down, get a handle on the situation. These guys were in some kind of panic, like they were dealing with a homicidal maniac or something. Really not very professional.
33
The actions of these two officers is horribly disturbing. They were called there to help, and instead murdered this man. At the end of this altercation, the one officer seems to express only remorse that he was going to lose his job, and not that he had killed a man who clearly needed help. At what point of their training was it said it was ok to use a taser 15 times on someone?
46
I don't know why there are even comment sections for these stories. The other day's story about a deranged knife wielding man being shot by the police in Midtown, most of the comments were, "Why didn't they just taze him?".
6
maybe the why is that he was in a car and unarmed and needed medical attention, or do such distinctions matter in cases of lethal force being used by law enforcement? Hey, here's an idea... pretend it was your son, husband or brother and then try being crass in the face of this man's death and the loss this means to his family.
3
Why are there comment sections? Because it is the last venue in America to express one's opinion. In this nation where free expression is met with violent militarized force, this is the last bastion of freedom.
2
OK now you see it, now you don't.
Here it's in your face; uniformed police officers given the authority and power by the state to detain and arrest law breakers come upon a deranged person incapable of cooperating with verbal and physical efforts to shut down his craziness and is summarily executed mostly out of hate and fear.
What does this tell us?
Do Georgia rural cops i.e., sheriffs know any better?
Will the death of Chase Sherman, killed for being mentally ill by ingestion of a mind-altering substance, get justice? Will the officers who murdered him get time and forever be stricken from their roles as public servants sworn to protect the people and keep the peace?
Well, given just a little authority, about anyone who wants to rodeo and honcho others and move them to obey with punishment or pain will exceed the limits. Just look at the power-over-others psychological experiments that let fellow students "shock" fellow students (dissimulated by the receivers) for minor failures in performance.
So the officers here as elsewhere were unprepared to handle a "crazy man" supine during the entire episode but resisting commands to be still and relax was repeatedly tazered by a young novice with little vested authority but of hysterical frenzy who wanted to terminate any resistance at all. The ultimate power of the State executed an innocent victim lying very much alone in his family's car.
The very best is the officer-in-charge's condemnation of the brutal death
Here it's in your face; uniformed police officers given the authority and power by the state to detain and arrest law breakers come upon a deranged person incapable of cooperating with verbal and physical efforts to shut down his craziness and is summarily executed mostly out of hate and fear.
What does this tell us?
Do Georgia rural cops i.e., sheriffs know any better?
Will the death of Chase Sherman, killed for being mentally ill by ingestion of a mind-altering substance, get justice? Will the officers who murdered him get time and forever be stricken from their roles as public servants sworn to protect the people and keep the peace?
Well, given just a little authority, about anyone who wants to rodeo and honcho others and move them to obey with punishment or pain will exceed the limits. Just look at the power-over-others psychological experiments that let fellow students "shock" fellow students (dissimulated by the receivers) for minor failures in performance.
So the officers here as elsewhere were unprepared to handle a "crazy man" supine during the entire episode but resisting commands to be still and relax was repeatedly tazered by a young novice with little vested authority but of hysterical frenzy who wanted to terminate any resistance at all. The ultimate power of the State executed an innocent victim lying very much alone in his family's car.
The very best is the officer-in-charge's condemnation of the brutal death
11
Please tell me again, with a straight face, that some of you still don't believe there is a problem of overuse and misuse of power by law enforcement in the United States!
34
It's hard to deny, now that the police have begun to kill white people who have broken no law.
1
When at the end of the video, standing in a circle and sort of debriefing, or getting their stories straight, depending on your level of cynicism (mine's peaking right about now)...the heavy-set officer sort of half-smiles and say, "I'm ready to do that [unintelligible] again!"
Yeehaw that was some fun, huh? Sheriff Southern Fried?
Incredible.
Yeehaw that was some fun, huh? Sheriff Southern Fried?
Incredible.
2
Someone should have called EMS. This man would have lived if he had been in an ambulance restrained to a gurney and given a sedative. These police are VERY STUPID and their stupidity killed a man.
28
As we continue to debate this situation online, I'm disheartened that no one is mentioning the fact that these officers were on the left shoulder of a highway at night, where the danger to themselves, the victim, and the parents was significantly increased and there was little time available to practice the sort of "de-escalation techniques" suggested by so many commenters
5
there was little time available to practice the sort of "de-escalation techniques" suggested by so many commenters
Therefore, the killing was fully justified.
Therefore, the killing was fully justified.
1
What was the time constraint exactly? They had to wait for an ambulance.
4
I feel so sorry for the family of the man who police tased unnecessarily!!! My condolences to the Sherman family.
The police arrested my son in our town, ended up taking him to the hospital, I got a call to go there so I did. When I arrived they had him handcuffed to the hospital bed, both hands.When he said anything mean they tased him also, a total of 4 times as I stood there and watched. I couldn't believe my eyes...I yelled at them saying why are you doing that to him....they said because he deserved it! I can't believe they can get away with doing that to a person, he wasn't hurting anyone...he couldn't, he was handcuffed to the hospital bed. I think they should take them away from all of them as they use those tasers incorrectly and end up taking peoples lives, which they are not intended for.
The police arrested my son in our town, ended up taking him to the hospital, I got a call to go there so I did. When I arrived they had him handcuffed to the hospital bed, both hands.When he said anything mean they tased him also, a total of 4 times as I stood there and watched. I couldn't believe my eyes...I yelled at them saying why are you doing that to him....they said because he deserved it! I can't believe they can get away with doing that to a person, he wasn't hurting anyone...he couldn't, he was handcuffed to the hospital bed. I think they should take them away from all of them as they use those tasers incorrectly and end up taking peoples lives, which they are not intended for.
28
So many highly judgmental people commenting here -- I guess that's what a judgmental person does. But...none of you were in that situation or watching -- as were his parents -- and understood that what was happening would lead to his death. The man went berserk (excusing even why he went berserk), bit his fiancée, tried to leap from a moving vehicle, and police were called, showed up faithfully, and tried their best to subdue a berserk man. And you all are just beside yourself with judgment -- because you weren't there and passing judgment is the easiest thing you can do.
7
Nothing will ever change. When the inevitable big payout occurs to the family, it affects the tax payers, never the police precinct.
9
I simply cannot wrap my mind around the fact that Police Departments are ever willing to pay millions and millions, daily, weekly, monthly and annually is *settlement*, when clear wrong doing is undisputed: How bout the novel idea of firing Bad Police Officers just like any other wrongly-suite-for-the-job employee would be terminated? Are we as a nation that terrified of doing the right thing? And please do not place the burden of this failure on *Police Unions*. If cities, are that terrified of Police Unions- it is because local governments have made them the monsters in the room; by their own complicity. There should never be any single employee group accorded extra judicial protections-but this is what *we* collectively have created in Civil Law Enforcement.
2
This is 2016, the 21st Century and law enforcement needs to use modern day methods as well as understand you treat someone with a serious mental or medical issue different than you do so someone who has intentionally committed a crime.
Families with a member or individuals with issues like deafness, autism, schizophrenia have cause for concern that law enforcement will hurt or kill the person with the mental or medical issue.
Families with a member or individuals with issues like deafness, autism, schizophrenia have cause for concern that law enforcement will hurt or kill the person with the mental or medical issue.
8
They had every right to do what they did. People get violent with police, they are gonna get hurt, mental illness or not. People make the police out to be social workers, they are not. More training, sure. But violence is crossing a line. People should have to work with the police for a week to see what they deal with. It's not easy.
6
And do they also attend the funerals of those they kill a part of their line of duty?
"They had every right to do what they did. People get violent with police, they are gonna get hurt, mental illness or not."
That's exactly as it should be! Who came up with that nonsensical slogan, "To protect and to serve," anyway?! What nonsense!
"Annoy the bulls and you get the horns."
That's exactly as it should be! Who came up with that nonsensical slogan, "To protect and to serve," anyway?! What nonsense!
"Annoy the bulls and you get the horns."
1
Police are trained to deescalate, and if they've forgotten how, they should be reminded. Police aren't babies, why are apologists always demanding we "understand" them better? I understand them fine. They need to do their jobs.
3
I'm sorry, but if my child was so agitated that he couldn't fly and was acting paranoid he would be in an ambulance on the way to a hospital-not in a rental car going home. This young man died because he was not cared for immediately. I'm sure hind sight helps but it is hard to understand why adults didn't deal with his condition and just hoped for the best. There would have been no reason to involve the police. Atlanta has a plethora of great hospitals.
I'm not sure I could live with me failing my child like this. I'm really sorry for his death and for his parents.
I'm not sure I could live with me failing my child like this. I'm really sorry for his death and for his parents.
13
Fam - you shouldn't be blaming the parents. They probably thought that once their son was in the car, he would settle down, instead he went out of control and tried to get out of the car. The parents put their trust in the police in order to restrain their son. This was probably the first time that they had seen their son in this condition and had no way of knowing that medical attention was the best solution.
As for the police, they should have known that a taser can be lethal especially when administered many times. The officers involved should be put on administrative leave and undergo retraining. It's unfortunate that officers don't get training to handle these situations involving mentally impaired people.
As for the police, they should have known that a taser can be lethal especially when administered many times. The officers involved should be put on administrative leave and undergo retraining. It's unfortunate that officers don't get training to handle these situations involving mentally impaired people.
1
"There would have been no reason to involve the police."
Indeed, calling the _police_ and hoping for the best is possibly the most foolish thing that you can ever do.
Ask any denizen of the inner city.
Indeed, calling the _police_ and hoping for the best is possibly the most foolish thing that you can ever do.
Ask any denizen of the inner city.
I teach U. S. History in Coweta County. It's a beautiful area near Peachtree City and about 35 miles south of Atlanta. (My comments are directed toward male students; female students are just the opposite). I often encounter outright ignorance of one's rights when dealing with matters of law and especially constitutional issues. Sadly, many of these students also express interest in becoming law enforcement officers. Shocking to say, they do. Two years later, when going through the local free paper at the supermarket, I often see my former students' proud photos of their graduation from the police academy. The caption further states they now working for the county. I roll my eyes as I carefully drive out of the grocery parking lot.
20
Need a tranquilizer gun when the taser does not work. Let the guy kick until help with a tranquilizer can get there or something like that!
4
No word can describe it better than this ,
This is a MURDER.
This is a MURDER.
21
The police need to be tried for murder. And they should go to jail. It's obvious they murdered this guy. How terrible for his mother to see her son go into some psychiatric episode and then watch while her son is murdered by the people she asked for help. I hate the police. They are arrogant, stupid, poorly trained, violent and murderous.
21
As a medical professional, I want to clarify a misconception I see people talking about on this forum. Many seem to think the Taser was the cause of his death.
The electricity delivered by tasers, while they can be intrinsically lethal to some people, is NOT the cause of death. Most injuries are caused by either injuries from the tasered and paralyzed person hitting the ground or from asphyxiation secondary to the muscle contraction.
While I don't argue that the force was excessive, I'm certain that cause of death was likely due to him being shoved into tiny area that is the floor of the car and stepped on, causing him to suffocate.
The electricity delivered by tasers, while they can be intrinsically lethal to some people, is NOT the cause of death. Most injuries are caused by either injuries from the tasered and paralyzed person hitting the ground or from asphyxiation secondary to the muscle contraction.
While I don't argue that the force was excessive, I'm certain that cause of death was likely due to him being shoved into tiny area that is the floor of the car and stepped on, causing him to suffocate.
16
I am fond of the popular approach. Either let the guy out of the car and let a violent suspect roam up and down the highway, Or lock the guy in the car and hope he does not have a key or a weapon. Perhaps the best plan is the popular plan to shut down the highway, bring out hospital administrators to determine if the man has insurance, get the man to sign papers stating he will pay or cannot pay, get the man to submit to a physical and blood tests because an anastesiologist can not do anything with out these tests, get the man to submit to a mental evaluation to determine if there are issues there, bring the mobile blood lab to the scene, confer with all family and friends, hire a lawyer to oversee the entire episode, have a mental health professional on the scene. Oh yeah, do not forget the most important part, get the approval of all the commenters who know nothing about law enforcement.
7
But first you have to wait several hours.. even days.. until he calms down enough not to bite or try to kill someone.. of course people on the highway don't have anything better to do and should, by all means, comply merrily with any requests to put their lives on hold.. nothing is as important as the life of one zonked out, biting, freaked out stoner junkie. We all know that!
1
Please make sure to add this task to your specious list: police involved must attend the funerals of those they helped kill.
2
One doesn't have to know a great deal about law enforcement to see a situation, 15 tases and including some pretty damning verbage from the officers, to know they handled the situation as if they were dealing with a murderer. They were. But they failed to see who the perpetrator was.
As the saying goes, "When all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail." The inappropriateness of the response and lack of training are glaring. I pray some learning takes place after an incident like this.
18
This was my daughters fiance. As a former cop of 20 years I watched this video today and it broke my heart. My daughter has nightmares and various mental issues because of this. I can tell you from a cop stand point it was unnecessary and a blatant use of excessive force. All else fails do no harm. I hear no remorse except for themselves. My daughter remembered them giving high fives as he was loaded dead in the ambulance. Now she has to live with this? This is not The America I love
25
Please think for a moment what it was like to be the policemen in that situation.
7
I cannot imagine any situation - ever - where I would be involved in that type of situation and then find myself and fellow officer high-fiving each other and laughing.
10
You're not a policeman, you're not a man, so I guess it would be hard for you to imagine that. Us men find ways to blow off the unimaginable in different ways, so please don't judge them, us from your limited perspective.
What I saw in the video was a man who was uncontrollable and had un-human like strength as a result of drug use. He was speaking unintelligently, and tried to harm the police; he went ahead and got ahold of the taser rather than comply with instructions from a law enforcement officer. Don't know about you, but a cop tells me to do something and I do it; no questions asked.
What I saw in the video was a man who was uncontrollable and had un-human like strength as a result of drug use. He was speaking unintelligently, and tried to harm the police; he went ahead and got ahold of the taser rather than comply with instructions from a law enforcement officer. Don't know about you, but a cop tells me to do something and I do it; no questions asked.
1
I have. But I must have missed the point at which the policemen found themselves in fear of their lives.
1
How on earth is it legal for people to sell this Chinese made poison and yet cannabis remains illegal? Maybe the DEA can explain this travesty. These synthetic poisons have been implicated in many deaths, wether they call them bath salts or synthetic MJ. We truly are an ignorant violent species.
11
Cops in the US currently act as lawless armed militia and stray far from acting like admirable members of the community who "serve and protect".
They have looked and need to look more at how British police successfully use modern policing tactics to deal with situations like this.
They have looked and need to look more at how British police successfully use modern policing tactics to deal with situations like this.
9
Never, ever call law enforcement to handle family situations. Figure out a different way to handle it. I cannot stress this enough. Over-armed and under-trained, todays cops are basically rolling death squads.
20
It's frightening to see constant evidence in our society of ostensibly reasonable solutions run amok. Many of us still naively believe that the police are friendly, supportive resources who can be relied upon to assist in an emergency. And in many instances, perhaps the police do, in fact, serve in this way. But we are increasingly seeing incidents like this one, where poorly trained police grossly overstep their bounds resulting in injury or death.
We live in an increasingly violent society and unfortunately, in too many instances, the police are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem.
We shudder to think of what our society will become when the police are given carte blanche to round up Mexicans and Muslims to ship them out of the country, per Donald Trump's policies. The train cars to Auschwitz could yet roll on American railroads.
We live in an increasingly violent society and unfortunately, in too many instances, the police are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem.
We shudder to think of what our society will become when the police are given carte blanche to round up Mexicans and Muslims to ship them out of the country, per Donald Trump's policies. The train cars to Auschwitz could yet roll on American railroads.
11
The wrong people were tortured
6
These are the men who will man the guard towers at the Trump Camps.
14
I feel for the family of this man but I don't see intent to harm him. I do see VERY poor training on how to handle the situation. I just don't understand how screaming at a person to calm down in fact helps to calm them.
3
"I feel for the family of this man but I don't see intent to harm him."
Of course there was no intent! Mr. Sherman's death was the will of God.
Of course there was no intent! Mr. Sherman's death was the will of God.
Watch the punching sir. No intention, he Is handcuffed
The nonchalance is so disturbing. His only thoughts were to be concerned for his cuffs. Sad.
5
Ah, you honestly don't understand why he is showing the broken handcuffs to the other cops? Oy veh.
4
And for that reason, Mr. Sherman _clearly_ deserved to _die_! That his muscles contracted powerfully enough to break the cuffs in response to the electricity coursing through his body means nothing.
"Oy veh" indeed, Glenn.
"Oy veh" indeed, Glenn.
If you give police weapons that are known to cause ventricular tachycardia and ventricular fibrillation when used on the chest in repeated shocks, then you better give them automated defibrillators to put in the back of their squad cars…
That would take admitting to potential lethal effects of this harmless weapon or potential training as to it's proper use, especially when used on people who are known to have used drugs recently and whose family calls the police for help.
The family had the right idea when they rented the car, but they should have driven it to the nearest hospital instead of calling the police. Lesson learned.
That would take admitting to potential lethal effects of this harmless weapon or potential training as to it's proper use, especially when used on people who are known to have used drugs recently and whose family calls the police for help.
The family had the right idea when they rented the car, but they should have driven it to the nearest hospital instead of calling the police. Lesson learned.
3
Lessened learned? Lesson learned too late. And how many times will this lesson be "learned" before something different is employed to address th se situations.
My condolences to the Sherman family. I can't even fathom the horror of them witnessing the death of their beloved by the hands of those who were supposed to protect.
13
What is immediately disturbing is the DA, saying that after viewing the video numerous times, , he "has not formed a final opinion about it". Is he serious?
I know that law enforcement would say that I should not speak until I've been in their shoes---but there is a general lack of empathy among many of their members. There is also often a lack of physical courage, using Tasers and "putting the weight of the world on him now". Is their safety and convenience the primary consideration, or even the sole consideration these days.
Many of these officers may be good people--but they are just not cut out to be policemen. It should just not be their occupation if they treat every situation with fear. Please find another occupation that better suits you. Please.
I know that law enforcement would say that I should not speak until I've been in their shoes---but there is a general lack of empathy among many of their members. There is also often a lack of physical courage, using Tasers and "putting the weight of the world on him now". Is their safety and convenience the primary consideration, or even the sole consideration these days.
Many of these officers may be good people--but they are just not cut out to be policemen. It should just not be their occupation if they treat every situation with fear. Please find another occupation that better suits you. Please.
13
"Is their safety and convenience the primary consideration, or even the sole consideration these days."
That seems to be the case, and yet, after a long life, I don't recall police acting quite this callously and with such uncontrolled violence and retaliation. As the cop said, to the mentally ill person, "What's your problem, Buddy...you touch that and it's on." And it was.
That seems to be the case, and yet, after a long life, I don't recall police acting quite this callously and with such uncontrolled violence and retaliation. As the cop said, to the mentally ill person, "What's your problem, Buddy...you touch that and it's on." And it was.
2
When I see things like this I'm reminded of an incident in England where a man with a machete was threatening people and attacking police officers with it. They tried to contain him and used trash cans to keep him at a distance. They ultimately swarmed him with a large number of officers and shields for defense and that was the end of it.
There was a non-lethal way of handling this incident too. They could have removed his family from the vehicle and kept him trapped inside by holding the doors shut. The fact is that officers in this country are just not trained in non-lethal ways of handling mental health problems and until they are the police will continue to exact a toll on people who could be alive otherwise.
There was a non-lethal way of handling this incident too. They could have removed his family from the vehicle and kept him trapped inside by holding the doors shut. The fact is that officers in this country are just not trained in non-lethal ways of handling mental health problems and until they are the police will continue to exact a toll on people who could be alive otherwise.
12
The fact that these officers responded to a difficult situation is fair. But based on the video extract, there's what seems to be an awful long time when the victim is becoming very weak and yet officers continue to apply strong force. We're also hearing at that point the same sentences from officers I've heard in other similar videos which go along the lines of 'stop resisting', 'he's still resisting' when no resistance is apparent, as though officers seek to be able to defend their actions should the need arise. Let us hope fair investigations can take place.
8
Thank you for this comment: "I've heard in other similar videos which go along the lines of 'stop resisting', 'he's still resisting' when no resistance is apparent, as though officers seek to be able to defend their actions should the need arise."
I see and hear this repeatedly in the videos that get publicized. They will have five officers on top of the person, yelling "stop resisting," while striking them repeatedly, and while I don't see any resistance going on at all...there's five officers on top of them!
I'm so affected by this video, as it turns my life as an American, everything I based my life on, on its head, and shows it to be a failure. And it's just a lot to bear, seeing this deterioration and violence. I'm sad that I"m leaving this world soon enough, but to see my America in such pitched, pathetic, and pathological violence? It breaks my heart. Though apparently my alliterative abilities have not yet alluded me.
I see and hear this repeatedly in the videos that get publicized. They will have five officers on top of the person, yelling "stop resisting," while striking them repeatedly, and while I don't see any resistance going on at all...there's five officers on top of them!
I'm so affected by this video, as it turns my life as an American, everything I based my life on, on its head, and shows it to be a failure. And it's just a lot to bear, seeing this deterioration and violence. I'm sad that I"m leaving this world soon enough, but to see my America in such pitched, pathetic, and pathological violence? It breaks my heart. Though apparently my alliterative abilities have not yet alluded me.
2
How about if whenever family brought their delirious relatives to the hospital, doctors responded with violence and yelled, "Do you understand that this is for our own protection?" For *our* own protection, charge these tone deaf yahoos with whatever crime might apply. I know -- the job is tough and they need to be as safe as they can. I've done tough, dangerous jobs too, competently.
4
Time and again we see that calling the police to subdue a violent family member in some kind of mental crisis is a sure way of getting that loved one killed. So what to do?
6
Everyone here is way too quick to blame the police. Break down the facts, and you see someone who takes one cop's taser, kicks the other one, and goes through intermittent periods of calm followed by violent struggle. The cops only used the taser when he was struggling, and when they realized he was not breathing, they started CPR as soon as possible. They clearly were not trying to kill him, nor were they torturing him. People need to understand that police are people, too, and moreover, they are people who put themselves in harm's way to protect others. Because of the nature of their job, they need to be able to protect themselves. The last thing they need is to have to worry about media-fueled public outrage from armchair quarterbacks.
5
"Everyone here is way too quick to blame the police."
After all, consider the deceased's last words: "O.K. I’m dead, I’m dead. I quit, I quit."
If those words don't present a clear and present danger to the lives and property of the policemen, then what words would?!!!
After all, consider the deceased's last words: "O.K. I’m dead, I’m dead. I quit, I quit."
If those words don't present a clear and present danger to the lives and property of the policemen, then what words would?!!!
1
Here's a new rule for the police: If you Taser a handcuffed individual- you are fired. If they die, you are prosecuted.
And a rule for everyone else until our law enforcement gets it s*t together: Don't call the police.
(Note- Tasers are potentially deadly and for that reason are only intended to be used in situations which would otherwise call for the use of fatal force. If it isn't a situation where you could legally shoot a suspect, it is not appropriate to use a Taser. This should go without saying, but a Taser should not be used on the mental ill, those on drugs, or children unless the only other choice is to shoot them, to death, with a gun.)
And a rule for everyone else until our law enforcement gets it s*t together: Don't call the police.
(Note- Tasers are potentially deadly and for that reason are only intended to be used in situations which would otherwise call for the use of fatal force. If it isn't a situation where you could legally shoot a suspect, it is not appropriate to use a Taser. This should go without saying, but a Taser should not be used on the mental ill, those on drugs, or children unless the only other choice is to shoot them, to death, with a gun.)
12
I would agree, handcuffed subjects shouldn't receive the punishment tases that they are obviously indulging in, as we saw in the video. Why they aren't fired for assaulting a person who's handcuffed is beyond me.
I mean...you're being paid, and paid a lot of overtime and benefits, to not blow your top when you feel like it, but to act with restraint.
Instead, we get explanations as if these were all volunteers and were entitled to react any way they want since they're working for free...
good grief, we have so much work to do.
I mean...you're being paid, and paid a lot of overtime and benefits, to not blow your top when you feel like it, but to act with restraint.
Instead, we get explanations as if these were all volunteers and were entitled to react any way they want since they're working for free...
good grief, we have so much work to do.
2
I cannot think of a single time when the police were helpful to me. Intimidating, authoritarian, mean spirited, vicious, yes. But helpful? Sorry, but not towards me.
6
You could tell just by listening to the video who the REAL antagonist in this situation was. And then after killing the man, you could tell his frame of mind, "I'm fired". Nothing about taking the life of someone in dire need of medical attention and protection. I certainly would not want this person to respond to any sort of situation that I was involved with that required a police response. I live 5 miles from Destin, but I do not know these poor people.
10
I do not think this horrible happening should reflect on all police. The cops in this video are just plain dumb. The department they work for should be investigated by the Justice Dept for poor hiring standards, poor training, and for retaining these dummies after this incident. And a DA should bring murder charges against them.
3
"I do not think this horrible happening should reflect on all police."
After all, had this been done by a couple of random black men, no one would *ever* think that it should be a reflection on _all_ black people!
After all, had this been done by a couple of random black men, no one would *ever* think that it should be a reflection on _all_ black people!
You can hear the panic in the officer's voice as he fights for the taser. Shouldn't police officers be able to remain calm in a hectic situation? How can they just resort to shooting someone having a mental breakdown, with taser or gun, when they are non-compliant? A person having a mental breakdown is simply not going to respond to commands, I can't understand how the very people called to the scene to deal with these types of problems are not trained in HOW to deal.
Officers in gun-free countries like Australia, Sweden, and the UK seem to have no problem taking down violent or non-compliant people. Why are our officers so scared?
Officers in gun-free countries like Australia, Sweden, and the UK seem to have no problem taking down violent or non-compliant people. Why are our officers so scared?
16
"Why are our officers so scared?" Hello! They know there is a good chance every citizen they encounter is likely armed with lethal force of their own. No other country's law enforcement has to face this existential threat daily. Escalation of common difficult encounters is the price we seem willing to pay for our gun rights.
2
And the DA says he expects to "eventually" meet with the family while the officers allowed to continue their cruel methods of apprehending an unarmed man in handcuffs.
At the very least there should be some mention of immediate training post what appears to the viewer as an unwarrented attack.
At the very least there should be some mention of immediate training post what appears to the viewer as an unwarrented attack.
6
One of the great challenges in building an effective police force is screening out those whose primary motive is power rather than service. We often here aberrant police behavior is due to inadequate training. I suspect often the root cause is aberrant attitude.
8
Over the years there has been a militarization of our police forces. That comes with a twitchy trigger finger that does not belong in law enforcement. (Of course the other side is they face a more potentially heavily armed and lethal population and every move has to be instantly analyzed in terms of that.)
3
Wouldn't it be nice if an eye for an eye was really the law of the land, specifically for instances like this, where the people could be invited to meet out justice.
If such ever comes to pass I will immediately volunteer to travel, on my own dollar, to wherever, to one on one, teach degenerates such as these, what respect for ones fellow man is all about.
No reasonable American should presume that the police, in any town USA, are there as officers of the peace; they are there, along with their military equipment and surveillance equipment, to monitor the people, and create a sense of fear of authority throughout the land.
They operate as another arm of the masters of mankind, the .01%ters, who must keep that fear alive, lest one day the hordes with their pitchforks, come calling.
If such ever comes to pass I will immediately volunteer to travel, on my own dollar, to wherever, to one on one, teach degenerates such as these, what respect for ones fellow man is all about.
No reasonable American should presume that the police, in any town USA, are there as officers of the peace; they are there, along with their military equipment and surveillance equipment, to monitor the people, and create a sense of fear of authority throughout the land.
They operate as another arm of the masters of mankind, the .01%ters, who must keep that fear alive, lest one day the hordes with their pitchforks, come calling.
6
Tasers are torture. They are also fatal to some people, and police officers are not qualified to know in advance to whom they are deadly. Actually, even the manufacturer has only a vague idea about this; perhaps psychic abilities are needed or at best a medical exam performed in advance. Why are we still using them?
It also seems rather futile to threaten an agitated person, often not in their right mind, with further harm from a weapon if they don't "stop moving." Probably, if they could, they would, without the threat.
It also seems rather futile to threaten an agitated person, often not in their right mind, with further harm from a weapon if they don't "stop moving." Probably, if they could, they would, without the threat.
3
This video is just sickening. The police officer we saw starts out angry, belligerent, not a trace of understanding that Mr. Sherman was suffering from mental illness induced by what is unclear. If anyone treated a patient like this in a mental hospital, they'd most likely be fired.
Then watching that office try to distance himself from what he's just done, make himself look innocent--disgusting.
All this talk about training officers to understand mental illness and respond appropriately has obviously not reached this police force. From the first second of interaction, that officer was completely out of line, not a clue, yelling at that poor man. That poor family! Absolutely sickening the way those officers treated this whole situation. Is that how'd they'd treat their own family if one of them was suddenly hallucinating? I hope they're all fired, every one of them who just stood there and watched, and prosecuted for criminal negligence. The officer who killed Sherman seems to me to be guilty of criminal stupidity as well as murder.
Then watching that office try to distance himself from what he's just done, make himself look innocent--disgusting.
All this talk about training officers to understand mental illness and respond appropriately has obviously not reached this police force. From the first second of interaction, that officer was completely out of line, not a clue, yelling at that poor man. That poor family! Absolutely sickening the way those officers treated this whole situation. Is that how'd they'd treat their own family if one of them was suddenly hallucinating? I hope they're all fired, every one of them who just stood there and watched, and prosecuted for criminal negligence. The officer who killed Sherman seems to me to be guilty of criminal stupidity as well as murder.
6
WHy continue tasering when he's already down? Did they think they were doing elecroshock therapy? It looks like a hideous blunter arising from panic. The police desperately need training in handling situations like these, as it will surely not be the last.
6
Cops are not mental health professionals. These cops should have called for mental health professionals. What they did was criminal in every sense of the word. If anyone ever wants to start a problem where there isn't one or escalate a confrontation, call the cops. They are the best at it.
22
Poorly trained police officers, didn't know how to deal with mentally ill person.
7
It started with Rodney King. No longer would the obvious be obvious.
It's ALL subjective now, then no one has to think.
It's ALL subjective now, then no one has to think.
2
"What's even more heinous is that after these officers got done, after they dragged his body out of the car and threw it on the ground, after he was put in the back of an ambulance and driven off, right in front of his parents and fiancé, the two deputies put hand sanitizer on and they high five each other and start laughing," Stewart said.
If that account is accurate (and I have no doubts as I've seen video of officers behaving in such a manner more than once), then it highlights the very heart of the problem with our civilian law enforcement apparatus - joyful indifference to the value of life of others.
The militarization of civilian law enforcement should end yesterday. Take away their war-making toys given them by the federal government as part of a surplus program.
Make wrongful death/police misconduct settlements and verdicts come out of the police pension funds or require those funds to carry liability insurance of some kind (though I doubt any insurance company in the world would offer such coverage, given the amount of insanity and brutality that the era of 'cameras everywhere' has shown the world).
Start prosecuting the bad apples and those who cover for them and/or enable them. Serpico them.
If that account is accurate (and I have no doubts as I've seen video of officers behaving in such a manner more than once), then it highlights the very heart of the problem with our civilian law enforcement apparatus - joyful indifference to the value of life of others.
The militarization of civilian law enforcement should end yesterday. Take away their war-making toys given them by the federal government as part of a surplus program.
Make wrongful death/police misconduct settlements and verdicts come out of the police pension funds or require those funds to carry liability insurance of some kind (though I doubt any insurance company in the world would offer such coverage, given the amount of insanity and brutality that the era of 'cameras everywhere' has shown the world).
Start prosecuting the bad apples and those who cover for them and/or enable them. Serpico them.
23
Agree with you except for one thing, which is contrary to your belief, "... by the federal government as part of a surplus program."
This military equipment is sold to these police departments, as part of a long term plan to fully militarize police departments, in major cities and towns, the intent being the eventual acceptance of such throughout the land.
The killing of innocent people by police, is occurring daily, and yet no one, in government, is doing anything about; it should be obvious to even the most obtuse, what is occurring.
This military equipment is sold to these police departments, as part of a long term plan to fully militarize police departments, in major cities and towns, the intent being the eventual acceptance of such throughout the land.
The killing of innocent people by police, is occurring daily, and yet no one, in government, is doing anything about; it should be obvious to even the most obtuse, what is occurring.
4
We are a violent society and feel, or rather "know" violence is always the solution. 90% of us have no understanding that other approaches can work better. Human psychology and anatomy are electives in our high schools rather than a core component from elementary school - even though presuming we are all human, one would think they would consume a far greater amount of time. And lastly, our media, the true educators of our population, incite outrage, hatred and violence as a matter of course to sell more advertisements, and because those that run it are part of the self same educational process.
8
They are cops, not paramedics, not orderlies in a psychiatric wing, and not social workers. While tazing him was wrong, I don't think we as a society have a leg to stand on complaining about this. Not until we are willing to to pay for more police and the appropriate training to allow them to work as paramedics, orderlies, and social workers and the training necessary to allow them to switch seamlessly to the job they need to do right then.
5
We could ask other developed first-world nations how they manage to have police officers who do not routinely (if never) killed unarmed civilians. Perhaps we, as a nation, can set aside our unwarranted arrogance just long enough to consider that we aren't the best at everything. There is much we can and should learn from others who have been at this nation thing a heck of a lot longer than us.
5
"They are cops, not paramedics, not orderlies in a psychiatric wing, and not social workers."
After all, the very slogan of the police is "To protect and to serve." How in the world anyone could possibly expect the police to act in accordance with a mere slogan is beyond me.
After all, the very slogan of the police is "To protect and to serve." How in the world anyone could possibly expect the police to act in accordance with a mere slogan is beyond me.
15 Times???? These officers need to be FIRED NOW! I would not shed a tear if they were FIRED. My tax payer money should not go towards this incompetence. Unbelievable.
14
Excessive use of police force kills yet another person. Do they have any competent training on how to deal with someone who is experiencing paranoia or hallucinations? They should have subdued him once with a taser, pulled him out of the car and then cuffed his hands behind his back.
The police officers immediately tried to justify their actions to the EMTs once they realized he was dead. They felt guilty and rightly so.
Why have they not been suspended pending the outcome of an investigation?
The police officers immediately tried to justify their actions to the EMTs once they realized he was dead. They felt guilty and rightly so.
Why have they not been suspended pending the outcome of an investigation?
16
"Why have they not been suspended pending the outcome of an investigation?"
Why should they be? They were just following orders. After all, what if Mr. Sherman had been black?
Why should they be? They were just following orders. After all, what if Mr. Sherman had been black?
Unfortunately, there are no simple answers to these types of situations. Here, we see use of a taser leading to a death. In the case of Mario Woods, for instance, use of a taser might have saved his life by providing police an intermediate level of force with an armed man instead of resorting to a gun. The reality is that people can be killed in a variety of ways, and tools are only as good as the people who use them.
That is not meant as an indictment of the police. They have an incredibly difficult job, and I find that television and movies skew the way people view reality. I work closely with law enforcement, and find myself torn when reviewing these types of videos. For instance, I am appalled by the Eric Garner and Tamir Rice killings, but can understand how the Mario Woods shooting unfolded (granted the number of shots seemed exorbitant). In discussions about use of force, people frequently ask, "Why didn't they just shoot him in the leg or the shoulder?" To me, that question reflects ignorance - of firearms and of the situations police face.
A few mitigating factors for the officers in this case: Mr. Sherman was cuffed at the front so use of his hands was not really inhibited; they were on the freeway so simply backing off posed problems if, e.g., he took off running; he continued to struggle throughout and grabbed a taser. I don't believe the officers meant to harm him, but they were heavy-handed. More training makes sense, but it won't eliminate this problem.
That is not meant as an indictment of the police. They have an incredibly difficult job, and I find that television and movies skew the way people view reality. I work closely with law enforcement, and find myself torn when reviewing these types of videos. For instance, I am appalled by the Eric Garner and Tamir Rice killings, but can understand how the Mario Woods shooting unfolded (granted the number of shots seemed exorbitant). In discussions about use of force, people frequently ask, "Why didn't they just shoot him in the leg or the shoulder?" To me, that question reflects ignorance - of firearms and of the situations police face.
A few mitigating factors for the officers in this case: Mr. Sherman was cuffed at the front so use of his hands was not really inhibited; they were on the freeway so simply backing off posed problems if, e.g., he took off running; he continued to struggle throughout and grabbed a taser. I don't believe the officers meant to harm him, but they were heavy-handed. More training makes sense, but it won't eliminate this problem.
4
"A few mitigating factors for the officers in this case: Mr. Sherman was cuffed at the front so use of his hands was not really inhibited; they were on the freeway so simply backing off posed problems if, e.g., he took off running; he continued to struggle throughout and grabbed a taser."
And what if Mr. Sherman had had an assault rifle that wasn't immediately visible to the officers?! Has anyone considered that?! Even as his body jerked, flexed, and contorted as the relaxing bolts of electricity coursed along his nerves, he still might have aimed and fired in some random direction, perhaps killing his parents!
Even though the officers didn't mean to harm him, they _had_ to kill him! How is that not obvious?
And what if Mr. Sherman had had an assault rifle that wasn't immediately visible to the officers?! Has anyone considered that?! Even as his body jerked, flexed, and contorted as the relaxing bolts of electricity coursed along his nerves, he still might have aimed and fired in some random direction, perhaps killing his parents!
Even though the officers didn't mean to harm him, they _had_ to kill him! How is that not obvious?
We had a very similar event occur in our small town recently with the same result, and it is happening all over this country. Death from overwhelming force by police in the absence of a crime or threat, and usually involving someone with mental health issues. That local family was left asking the same questions: Why was our request to stand down ignored? Why was our son's condition, which was well known to police and never involved harming anyone, not taken into account? Why wasn't time and patience used to diffuse the situation? He was mentally ill, not a dangerous felon, so why the same tactics regardless of the circumstances? He died needlessly, because the cops didn't use common sense and relied on overwhelming force instead. The whole town grieved with that family and asked hard questions about what "serve and protect" really meant.
140
But he was not mentally ill. He chose to ingest a non-addictive substance that is WIDELY known to induce psychosis. I don't believe for even a second this was a result of taking drugs a week ago. And that the family continues to perpetuate that story throws everything else they're saying into doubt. We aren't getting the whole story from either side.
God save America!
1
I'm having trouble sympathizing with this guy vs all the thousands of truly innocent people that have been actually abused by police. Long story short: if you take some unknown drug, you may go crazy and end up dead.
7
"you may go crazy and end up dead"
because the police will simply kill you.
because the police will simply kill you.
Do we really want the moral of story to be "Please do not call the Police if you want to live". How can this be in America, land of the free, home of the brave. "do not call Police EVER".
8
This is partially attributable to the war on drugs.
"Synthetic marijuana" is not chemically similar to marijuana. It is composed of whatever horrible cheap stuff the manufacturer chooses.
Nobody buys that stuff in places where real marijuana is readily and legally available. And people that use real marijuana don't have reactions as described in the article.
"Synthetic marijuana" is not chemically similar to marijuana. It is composed of whatever horrible cheap stuff the manufacturer chooses.
Nobody buys that stuff in places where real marijuana is readily and legally available. And people that use real marijuana don't have reactions as described in the article.
6
He's hand cuffed. At this point, what would happen if they just stepped back, contained the guy from running into the road and hurting himself and then let him tire himself out? It's as if the officers and medical personnel are on a mission to have compliance because, gosh darn it, we are the authorities and you will comply. Too many police have an authoritarian bent. Time to try something new. Maybe ask Scotland or Norway police forces.
22
For years I never understood why they hire police with authoritarian bent and a chip on their shoulders. Perhaps as I remember from high school a lot of cops came from most aggressive sports teams there like football-talk about chips on their shoulders! Perhaps it would be better to hire cops with more smarts than brawn, recruit from the chess team perhaps
15
Um, did i miss something in this video. The cops tried to calm a psychotic man down and had to resort to the taser, which did little to help. This guy was out of control and the cops were doing all they could to calm him down. I think they did the best that they could in a very difficult situation. Unfortunately, the man died but i am not blaming the cops for this. Not one bit.
10
The best they could do would have been to sedate him and leave him alive. He was in a car. They could have closed the doors and left him in there until he calmed down or until a medical response team with a sedative arrived. He was mentally ill not a criminal. They killed him, plain and simple.
3
Yes you missed something. At least one of the officers seemed to saying an doing things that would only escalate the situation. How do you calm someone? By being calm. Not by shouting at him and making demands as you are electrocuting him. How about addressing him by name for starters? How about explaining who you are and why you are there, and giving clear directions with a moment to comply? I don't know that you could have calmed this guy down, but the effort was abysmal...
2
"The cops tried to calm a psychotic man down and had to resort to the taser."
No. They did not have to "resort to the taser" fifteen times.
"which did little to help."
So, the cops did it over and over and over, again, despite the evidence of their own eyes that what they were doing could not possibly be right.
No. They did not have to "resort to the taser" fifteen times.
"which did little to help."
So, the cops did it over and over and over, again, despite the evidence of their own eyes that what they were doing could not possibly be right.
Whatever you want to say about training or the random, difficult situations police are faced with, these 'public servents' again and again act as though they're playing a video game or are completely unprepared for anything. The response in this case was just moronic.
13
While the outcome is simply terrible, if the parents/fiancé made the significant decision to drive instead of fly to their final destination due to deceased's behavior, why didn't they also make the decision to get him to an emergency room as soon as possible?
2
"why didn't they also make the decision to get him to an emergency room as soon as possible?"
Because it didn't seem to be necessary, at the time. What's your equally-uninformed guess? Then, given that the function of the police is "to protect and to serve," it seemed quite reasonable that their next move should be to call the police. Does that not make sense to you?
Of course, any black family would have known better that to mess with the po-po. "Let sleeping dogs lie" is the rule of thumb.
Because it didn't seem to be necessary, at the time. What's your equally-uninformed guess? Then, given that the function of the police is "to protect and to serve," it seemed quite reasonable that their next move should be to call the police. Does that not make sense to you?
Of course, any black family would have known better that to mess with the po-po. "Let sleeping dogs lie" is the rule of thumb.
Hey, so obvi we as a nation need better, more thoughtful police officers. In Chicago, in South Carolina. In Cleveland. Everywhere! How about some of y'all out there screaming bloody murder step up the plate? I've lived in NYC, the West Side of Chicago, East Oakland and now Northwest Arkansas, and in all of those places I see advertisements, sometimes a lot of them, from local law enforcement looking for recruits. Want police reform? Put your money where you mouth is!
2
Every time I read one of these stories I am saddened and appalled. I used to work in the treatment end of juvenile justice with teenage girls, most court adjudicated for anything from gang violence to habitually running away. Excellent training is available for learning effective de-escalation techniques and safe, nonviolent two-person restraint techniques. We started with several days of training in Crisis Prevention and Intervention (CPI) and then an annual refresher course.(You can find information on this online) There is no need for many of these tragedies. Perhaps as another commenter suggested we need a separate number to call for mental health crisis instead of 911. Perhaps police training is too geared to dealing with violent criminals. But a separate number would not have helped Eric Garner. Either way, this is a problem that can be much better addressed.
54
While obviously police officers need better training in handling mentally disturbed individuals and in using their weapons, the fundamental problem is that they are trained and permitted to use force, occasionally deadly, when they merely perceive resistance to the exercise of their authority. In this instance, how much resisting really was occurring when the person they killed was handcuffed and mostly incapable of getting away? Moreover, since the deceased was not being arrested for a crime, what would have been the harm had the officers simply backed off, called for an ambulance, and let the man attempt to leave the car? He probably would still be alive and state law none the worse for the leniency.
Instead, as permitted, they used force until the person on whom they exerted it was satisfactorily submissive--even though submission here is synonymous with death. No doubt they will say they were provoked, and they were; just trying to do their job, and they were. That they became enraged, as their language as well as their conduct indicate, and that their anger made them ineffective will be beside the point. Prosecutors and grand juries have a high tolerance for police fury when a citizen or suspect does not submit to the dominance of the police. We have allowed them to become our masters. So it is no wonder they don't act like servants.
Instead, as permitted, they used force until the person on whom they exerted it was satisfactorily submissive--even though submission here is synonymous with death. No doubt they will say they were provoked, and they were; just trying to do their job, and they were. That they became enraged, as their language as well as their conduct indicate, and that their anger made them ineffective will be beside the point. Prosecutors and grand juries have a high tolerance for police fury when a citizen or suspect does not submit to the dominance of the police. We have allowed them to become our masters. So it is no wonder they don't act like servants.
11
That was mishandled by police. They need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent. Pinheads.
4
Homicidal maniacs, is what they are.
They should be fired, arrested, and charged with manslaughter.
They should be fired, arrested, and charged with manslaughter.
3
Stop it, just stop it. Stop murdering US.
7
We constantly call upon emergency personnel to respond to situations that are beyond their abilities and that would be challenging even for the most highly trained mental health experts. I am a Firefighter EMT and routinely respond to mental health situations that I have no idea how to handle. I regularly receive training regarding mental health and respond to numerous mental health emergencies daily at work. That being said, every mental health situation I respond to is challenging and I never know how the person will react or how I should respond. Most people experiencing mental health issues do not respond well to having uniformed strangers showing up to "help" them and they often become more agitated with our presence. Combine that with the responsibility to protect the people around the situation from the erratic patient and it's often an extremely complicated situation with no easy answer. These police officers responded to an extremely difficult situation and they responded in the manner in which they were or weren't trained. It's so easy to vilify these officers and call them murderers, to separate ourselves from them and say that we would have done a better job if we were there. There is so much more I would like to say on this subject but most importantly I want people to know that their is a mental health crisis in this country that police, fire, EMS, and even hospitals are not properly equipped to handle. Please stop vilifying these men and women who try so hard.
74
How many of your mental health calls have ended up with someone dead?
A well written, well thought out comment. And one filled with truth. Yet few recommendations. Why do we seem so eager to automatically blame the police who typically are not trained to handle situations like this in what one might call a professional manner. Don't get me wrong; sometimes the police are very wrong in their actions. But after watching this video I would be hesitant on loading up the blame on the officers. People need to wake up to the fact that they themselves bear some responsibility for their own actions. I know that is something most want to know nothing about but you need to put the blame where it is appropriate.
I'm sure some police do try hard, but did these? Cursing and repeated tasing are not evidence of thoughtful handling of an admittedly difficult situation. Finally, the conclusion, death, ought to be evidence of potential mistreatment by the police.
1
This is disgraceful. The first thing the cop already on the scene was saying was for the backup cops to tase him. The first cop should have gotten out of the car, gotten the parents out of the car, and waited for this guy to calm down since they knew he had taken synthetic marijuana. I also saw many times where they kept saying to stop fighting, but it looked like he was not doing anythiing. Plus it was a constant stream of tasing in a small, closed space. There must be some limits as to how often tasing should be used, knowing that many people will react badly to its continued use. We should not allow law officers to rely totally on tasing in situations where they know there is a mentally health crisis. They escalated this situation instead of taking themselves out of harm's way and defusing it.
100
Tasing is dangerous to human life. Multiple tasing is especially dangerous. Police who don't know that are unqualified to serve, or at least to have tasers. Yet it seems to be the general rule that police are encouraged to have and use (and overuse) tasers. Can this be justifiable?
I recently became aware of a case of a 45 year old man who has no history of mental illness going violently crazy after inadvertently ingesting some marijuana chocolates his mother had for her cancer treatment. I wonder if Michael Brown in Ferguson, also with no history of violence but with marijuana in his system, also had this same reaction. Something is going on here.
As for the police, I don't think they should be criminally charged. The one officer did escalate the situation though, but I wouldn't have wanted to deal with this strong young man. We should be able to come up with better ways to restrain a person though. What about leg restraints, nets, handcuffing him to the car?
As for the police, I don't think they should be criminally charged. The one officer did escalate the situation though, but I wouldn't have wanted to deal with this strong young man. We should be able to come up with better ways to restrain a person though. What about leg restraints, nets, handcuffing him to the car?
2
It’s very strange that only in the U.S. do this sort of things happen. Elsewhere officers and other emergency service personnel don’t use violence so freely and indiscriminately if they are faced with ”erratic” behaviour.
It’s a disturbing video…
It’s a disturbing video…
8
So what should people do when confronted with a relative who is acting erratically due to drug use or mental illness? What are their choices when they may not be able to get them to a hospital, and when they know that calling the police may end in their loved one's death? What a tragedy this is, both for the young man, and for his mother and girlfriend, who now likely feel partly responsible his death.
6
This is another tragic example of inappropriate behavior by law enforcement officers (LEOs). Better training would undoubtedly help, but it would be an incomplete solution. A much larger problem is that many individuals become LEOs who are not qualified by temperament or intelligence. The LEOs who killed Mr. Sherman are not "bad" people, but they did show exceedingly poor judgment. Call it "low emotional intelligence." Unfortunately, the consequences of interacting with a LEO who has bad intentions or who has poor judgment can be the same for a civilian.
Can we change the system to recruit more individuals who have the intelligence and temperament to protect society while carrying a deadly weapon? I don't know. But LEOs play a critical role in our world, and we should make sure that the right people are on the job before they ever put on a uniform. Hmm. . . I'm suddenly reminded of our presidential election. (If we can't get that right, maybe it's naive to think we can fix law enforcement.)
Can we change the system to recruit more individuals who have the intelligence and temperament to protect society while carrying a deadly weapon? I don't know. But LEOs play a critical role in our world, and we should make sure that the right people are on the job before they ever put on a uniform. Hmm. . . I'm suddenly reminded of our presidential election. (If we can't get that right, maybe it's naive to think we can fix law enforcement.)
63
Have pot legal within the U.S. & switch out cops for psychologists. Who knows what kind of peace we would attain as a society if both occurred. d
If ever a situation could have been saved by de-escalation, this was it.
121
Outside the US, even if some is shot, it is with intent to subdue not to kill. But in the US, they are trained to kill to remove the "threat". The cops in the US are brutal and are given military equipment for free by the federal government. We have too many cops. It is time to legalize Marijuana and sell good quality Marijuana under regulation.
6
He was psychotic at the Atlantic Airport and the family decided to rent a car versus flying. They should have had an airport official call an ambulance. An airport is the last place to be volatile and medical care would have arrived immediately. If I was the mother, I'd get on the next plane back home. Her son is too old to be flipping out on recreational drugs and causing so much trouble.
2
Yes the cops used excessive force. But where is the follow up article on synthetic marijuana. Everyone is supporting legalization, but we ignore the fact that marijuana has inherent dangers. Additionally these danger need to be thoroughly investigated prior to legalization. This could all have been prevented if he did not take drugs. I pose the question how would any of you react if a seemingly crazy person attacked you? Handcuffed or not. Think about that the next time a disturbed puts on approaches you on the street. And if you chose to take illegal drugs don't blame the cook, you chose to smoke/inject/swallow it.
4
Dear Chris,
Marijuana actually doesn't have significant dangers, far less dangerous than alcohol. This "synthetic marijuana" is more like methamphetamines, it's a chemical concoction that varies a lot, and it has nothing in common with actual marijuana.
Marijuana actually doesn't have significant dangers, far less dangerous than alcohol. This "synthetic marijuana" is more like methamphetamines, it's a chemical concoction that varies a lot, and it has nothing in common with actual marijuana.
4
According to the companies that make tasers, 2 hits with a taser can cause great harm and that 3 hits can be fatal. Officers sign paperwork saying they understand this. To me, that legally means, any officer who tases someone more than twice, should automatically be charged with attempted murder and if the person dies, with 2nd degree murder. It might not have been premeditated, but they knew they were very possibly about to kill them, and do it anyways.
15
So tragic, so pathetic, so very, very wrong!
When will the Law finally catch up with human reality. Modern policing, tactics, and policies allow for vast levels of over-reaction, all based on the fallacy known as "resisting arrest."
Here are two immovable facts:
1) In our society, free citizens do not take classes in craven, abject submission - the only specific type of arrest response that Police recognize as appropriate. It's not culturally wired into Americans, but cops behave as if it should be.
2) Humans CAN NOT react to overwhelming threat without struggling, at least not without conditioning. Any organism will struggle for life when their lives are threatened. When cops are pig pile on, choke, taze, beat, or compress the chest and cut off air of a suspect - make no mistake, the person being arrested IS in danger, and will react! Yelling, "Quit resting arrest!" is useless, but done for their "video defense" later.
Add to all this that Police now routinely administer "punishment" in the form of gratuitous kicking, beatings, or tazing, after a suspect is restrained or no longer a threat, especially after chases, difficult arrests, or even when they are having a bad day. Yes, cops do this - so regularly that they don't stop, even when news copters are filming, as what happened in New Hampshire last week. So much for "restrain and detain only!"
The rules are entirely stacked against citizens, but they should not be. We need federal rules now, as Cops won't change.
When will the Law finally catch up with human reality. Modern policing, tactics, and policies allow for vast levels of over-reaction, all based on the fallacy known as "resisting arrest."
Here are two immovable facts:
1) In our society, free citizens do not take classes in craven, abject submission - the only specific type of arrest response that Police recognize as appropriate. It's not culturally wired into Americans, but cops behave as if it should be.
2) Humans CAN NOT react to overwhelming threat without struggling, at least not without conditioning. Any organism will struggle for life when their lives are threatened. When cops are pig pile on, choke, taze, beat, or compress the chest and cut off air of a suspect - make no mistake, the person being arrested IS in danger, and will react! Yelling, "Quit resting arrest!" is useless, but done for their "video defense" later.
Add to all this that Police now routinely administer "punishment" in the form of gratuitous kicking, beatings, or tazing, after a suspect is restrained or no longer a threat, especially after chases, difficult arrests, or even when they are having a bad day. Yes, cops do this - so regularly that they don't stop, even when news copters are filming, as what happened in New Hampshire last week. So much for "restrain and detain only!"
The rules are entirely stacked against citizens, but they should not be. We need federal rules now, as Cops won't change.
14
As someone who has been arrested once in their 62 year life I did a very dumb thing. Although I never took a class in "abject submission" I actually did what the officer told me. End result? Cuffs put on gently and kindly and neither the officer nor i were injured as I actually obeyed the officer. What a concept! Spread the news!
Just be white, kiss their shoes and politely hand them whatever money you're carrying. Often, these simple steps are enough to keep police from killing you.
8
The local cops tell me they dread being called out on domestic disputes; they don't want to get in the middle of all the family problems that require great patience and sensitivity, and occasionally force. How did certain LEOs get to the point where they reach for a weapon as one of the first tools of their jobs? Ultimately it was a family problem that could have been addressed by the right personnel and family pleadings. 50 years after Star Trek some people believe the SciFi fantasy of phasers that seemed always to be used in the right way by that crew. Tasers have become an ugly tool of sadists with little dissuading their use except for possible legal consequences as in this case. With the millions paid out in similar cases maybe the insurance companies covering police officers in lawsuits should decline coverage in cases of criminal conduct?
5
The family was safely out of the car, they put handcuffs on him. Lock him in the car and wait for a medical team that can sedate him safely and take him to a hospital. How hard is that? Sitting there and tasing him repeatedly while pressing him into the ground to try and "convince" him to "calm down" is not helpful to anyone. He's not behaving rationally, he's not going to listen to you and your "authoritah." He's not going to "calm down" and it's not imperative that he does, either. As long as everyone is safe, let his episode run its course while you wait for medical professionals. Why do cops not receive training on how to deal with mental health issues? I'm sure they deal with this kind of thing far more than they get into shootouts. Messed up priorities in police training is literally killing people.
That said, never take synthetic marijuana, jesus christ. That shouldn't even be a thing.
That said, never take synthetic marijuana, jesus christ. That shouldn't even be a thing.
10
After watching this video, ask yourself a simple question. If you were in a dark and dangerous place in any big city, and all alone, would you rather cross paths with one of these officers or with their suspect?
1
We need a "511" or other number for mental health emergencies. 911 is too general.
15
" In this instance, there are no racial overtones — both the Sherman parents and the deputy sheriffs are white."
That quote from the body of the story should strike fear into all of us, especially white citizens who tend to think that police brutality and overkill victims are black and deserving. One can always find race issues in police confrontations, deaths and injuries. If you look closer however the root cause of police failures in this type of confrontation is not racial, it is cultural and inadequate training. Both the police and the public they have sworn to protect have been bred to believe only overwhelming superiority of force is all that is needed and just in handling the mentally deranged. Wrong and witless. Enhanced police training is needed to protect decent police and the public from such bad outcomes.
That quote from the body of the story should strike fear into all of us, especially white citizens who tend to think that police brutality and overkill victims are black and deserving. One can always find race issues in police confrontations, deaths and injuries. If you look closer however the root cause of police failures in this type of confrontation is not racial, it is cultural and inadequate training. Both the police and the public they have sworn to protect have been bred to believe only overwhelming superiority of force is all that is needed and just in handling the mentally deranged. Wrong and witless. Enhanced police training is needed to protect decent police and the public from such bad outcomes.
11
It is abundantly clear that far too many police officers have not the training nor temperament to deal with people suffering from mental health issues, drug-related or otherwise. These appalling "law" officers tortured and murdered a man in handcuffs. I can't imagine that panic and fear I would feel if I was handcuffed and unable to move or breath. My natural instinct would be to try and free myself any way possible, as I am claustrophobic.
This has to stop. The officers involved should be arrested, tried and convicted. Maybe their punishment should be to be handcuffed and tased repeatedly until they die from their own choice of torture.
One thing's for sure - I agree with a fellow poster here: don't call the police. They are clearly the last people to call in America today to properly handle anything and they will abuse their power first and then justify it any way they can afterwords, and get away with it most of the time.
This has to stop. The officers involved should be arrested, tried and convicted. Maybe their punishment should be to be handcuffed and tased repeatedly until they die from their own choice of torture.
One thing's for sure - I agree with a fellow poster here: don't call the police. They are clearly the last people to call in America today to properly handle anything and they will abuse their power first and then justify it any way they can afterwords, and get away with it most of the time.
17
I think I would like a police force who more outraged at this type of behavior that I am ...
8
This video is heart breaking and my thoughts and prayers go out to the victims friends and family. This causes me to feel great concern as I am a mental health professional and often have to call upon police to help in crisis situations. This could easily be one of my clients and luckily to this point, the police have behaved appropriately most of the time.
I want to believe that the cops involved are not "bad" people who maliciously want to hurt people, rather they are not trained appropriately to deal with mentally ill, combative, suicidal, hallucinating individuals. Either way, to another commenters point, I am disturbed that he was more concerned about losing his job than the fact that a young man was killed, especially with his family standing by and pleading with them to treat him well.
I want to believe that the cops involved are not "bad" people who maliciously want to hurt people, rather they are not trained appropriately to deal with mentally ill, combative, suicidal, hallucinating individuals. Either way, to another commenters point, I am disturbed that he was more concerned about losing his job than the fact that a young man was killed, especially with his family standing by and pleading with them to treat him well.
4
STOP RESISTING
Any time you hear that being yelled by a police officer who knows they are being recorded, understand that they are merely performing for the camera. They think it provides cover for their actions, but for those who know their ways, it is a sign that they are engaged in willful misconduct.
Any time you hear that being yelled by a police officer who knows they are being recorded, understand that they are merely performing for the camera. They think it provides cover for their actions, but for those who know their ways, it is a sign that they are engaged in willful misconduct.
22
He was fighting, took the officers taser and continued to kick and resist. And the police are at fault? If he took one of their guns and shot them both, what then?
They were in fear. His irrational actions created the situation. The officers actions were what they were supposed to do. And he still fought back.
They were in fear. His irrational actions created the situation. The officers actions were what they were supposed to do. And he still fought back.
6
Exactly. But the underdog is always right, no matter his or her behavior!
2
@JL: the man was OUT OF HIS MIND. Once you are on a mind-altering substances, you cannot perceive reality accurately in the throes of a psychotic or chemically-induced hallucinations. It is, therefore, ASININE to assume someone not in their right mind can consent to obey directions, orders, etc. especially in threatening tones such as those officers uttered to him.
@Wanderer: This is America where you are innocent until proven guilty, you know. Would you like to go back to guilty and then innocent? Not pretty.
@Wanderer: This is America where you are innocent until proven guilty, you know. Would you like to go back to guilty and then innocent? Not pretty.
4
This has made me weep and feel so hopeless. I live in Georgia, the Great Red State with so many corrupt and rage-filled cops, run by even more corrupt politicians. The "lead" cops in this video are not only brutal and out of control; they are hopelessly uninformed and in denial about the danger of their weapons. And in the end, the only thing they cared about was not that they had taken a life, but that they would now be in trouble for it.
Don't want to spend another cent of tax or other money here.
Don't want to spend another cent of tax or other money here.
19
Yes, it's disturbing, yes it was another unnecessary death at the hands of the police. Yet I can't help but wonder what we expect when we send untrained police to deal with what is essentially a mental health crisis?
4
It appears that the police only know raw violence as a method to deal with difficult behaviors. People working in mental health settings would know how to react to this situation in the proper way, restraining the agitated person without causing his death. But the cops have no training for this, nor the right tools to deal with mental health crises. And yet there seems to be such need for such training since they have frequent encounters with mental illness. Not just with crime. Without such training everybody loses.
11
Even tho' he was handcuffed, he was resisting. The cops feared for their lives and so they had to continue to tase him until he died. They had no other choice.
3
How do two police fear for their lives from an unarmed handcuffed man? That's absolute nonsense. Two policemen trained in restraining people should have no problem restraining a handcuffed man or that have no place being in the police force. In the UK and other countries where the police are unarmed, they manage just fine.
14
I really hope that comment was sarcasm
8
How was the cop in danger? Oh I see, the man got his taser which the cop knew could be lethal so they tased him a few more times in front of Mom. It would be better if they simply refused to help. Lock him in an empty car with no keys until he calms down. And once the agitated an is dead, what are the first things the cop cares about, his bent handcuffs and losing his job. No CPR. Cameras will not save lives, but it will show that weapons create more problems than they solve.
7
I believed the most stupid peace keepers were located in France and called CRS, but i can recognize that American cops are able to more or worst, as you like.
After they handcuffed the guy, the could not just close the car's door and wait that he calmed down ?
After they handcuffed the guy, the could not just close the car's door and wait that he calmed down ?
4
I'll bet an RC Cola that neither officer aspired to be a sheriff's deputy. What stood out to me was an officer's comment at the end of the video where he called these guys 'good' police. So imagine how some of Coweta County's bad cops conduct themselves.
2
It's so heartbreaking. It's just so sad. Parents called for help and the police murdered their son due to their excessive force. The police officers should be prosecuted.
I also feel that police officers don't have an outlet for the stressors at work. Every day they come in contact with unpredictable situations, which create adrenaline rush and stress. Over time the police officers might exhibit PTSD or just violent behavior towards the subjects they are arresting.
Studying the video I almost feel like the officer took pleasure tasering the victim. I wonder if by tasering he was dealing with his stress.
I also feel that police officers don't have an outlet for the stressors at work. Every day they come in contact with unpredictable situations, which create adrenaline rush and stress. Over time the police officers might exhibit PTSD or just violent behavior towards the subjects they are arresting.
Studying the video I almost feel like the officer took pleasure tasering the victim. I wonder if by tasering he was dealing with his stress.
9
Everybody should know by now that American police officers do not know how to handle a mental health crisis. They will tase and shoot instead of de-escalating the situation. Call them to "help" your loved one at your own and your loved one's peril.
11
I like to think they are not good to handle any situation. They will shoot a clearly unarmed person if he should do as much as to show his fists at them.
1
As it stands already, police are specifically licensed to kill at their own discretion. Why is it any surprise that they kill? Lately they've been enjoying the additional spoils of extra judicial seizures. Just wait until Trump is elected. We'll see more of this.
6
Wow... after watching this video complete with damaged cuffs and reading all the negative comments my question is this: you are an officer dispatched to this scene. On a busy highway at night. How would you handle it? Is there a for sure definitive solution given what was going on? Obviously the tasers were not working initially at the very least.
Murder? After watching the video I disagree. Would it have been better if the officers just walked away? Beat him with a billy club? Punch his lights out?C'mon people... 2 ill equipped people sent to a scene on the side of what appears to be a highway. It is immediately obvious they were unable to get the individual under control. Despite someone's comments on 2 strong officers. The end result obviously not a good one. It appears the officers went through a serious struggle for almost the entire time. My sympathies to all involved including the officers.
Maybe there are people better equipped to handle this incident but they certainly weren't present. Again, I ask you to put yourself in the officer's shoes. What would you have done different given the inability to keep the man under control? So easy to lay blame yet so difficult to resolve.
Murder? After watching the video I disagree. Would it have been better if the officers just walked away? Beat him with a billy club? Punch his lights out?C'mon people... 2 ill equipped people sent to a scene on the side of what appears to be a highway. It is immediately obvious they were unable to get the individual under control. Despite someone's comments on 2 strong officers. The end result obviously not a good one. It appears the officers went through a serious struggle for almost the entire time. My sympathies to all involved including the officers.
Maybe there are people better equipped to handle this incident but they certainly weren't present. Again, I ask you to put yourself in the officer's shoes. What would you have done different given the inability to keep the man under control? So easy to lay blame yet so difficult to resolve.
4
It is obvious that there needs to be designated a mental health emergency service to answer these incidents that are primarily medical problems, not law and order problems, per se.
Police simply do not have the training or wisdom to handle this sort of crisis. Our community leaders (politicians and police and hospitals) must construct improved response procedures. Putting these professional responses into action will not be easy, or free, but we must do it.
Police simply do not have the training or wisdom to handle this sort of crisis. Our community leaders (politicians and police and hospitals) must construct improved response procedures. Putting these professional responses into action will not be easy, or free, but we must do it.
6
That the officer's chief concern in the wake of this is not that a man has been killed, but that he might lose his job speaks volumes.
15
You should never call police for assistance with a mentally disturbed individual. This is, sadly, not an unusual outcome.
14
Right, far better to subdue them yourself somehow, and maybe wind up accidentally killing them without police assistance. If you're ever in that situation, good luck to you.
6
Are there mental health professional hanging around waiting for this to happen. I get it that cops can be too aggressive and there are some bad apples in the bunch, but these men were trying to calm a crazy person down with little success. Obvioulsy, they tasered him too much and he died, but what would you do. It is so easy to watch a video and call the cops wrong. But i watched the video and thought they were trying to calm the situation down.
1
How many times have we read of incidents [throughout this nation] were parents, friends, loved ones call the police to help with a person in crisis, only to have that individual killed by police? What is an individual to do; who do they contact? *Common wisdom * is to pick up the phone and call 9-1-1. Many departments around the country *do* have trained crisis-management teams but for some reason, fail to dispatch them... WHO are people supposed to call?
We talk about "wilding" where people literally go crazy, but isn't this the behavior of so many in law enforcement? Unable to contain and control their own adrenaline, emotions and passion/hostility of the situation and person. We've been down this road so many times; failure to prosecute/ failure for departments to revise their use-of-force policies; the tacit response that "This conduct is within department policy"; juries absolving of all wrongdoing- if the matter ever gets that far; the lie that "police must make split-second" decisions": There is no such thing as a split-second decision. Decisions take into consideration the circumstance... A split- second response is nothing more than an uninformed reaction.
We must do better else- we are acknowledging that virtually "anyone" can become a police officer- and most anyone is.
We talk about "wilding" where people literally go crazy, but isn't this the behavior of so many in law enforcement? Unable to contain and control their own adrenaline, emotions and passion/hostility of the situation and person. We've been down this road so many times; failure to prosecute/ failure for departments to revise their use-of-force policies; the tacit response that "This conduct is within department policy"; juries absolving of all wrongdoing- if the matter ever gets that far; the lie that "police must make split-second" decisions": There is no such thing as a split-second decision. Decisions take into consideration the circumstance... A split- second response is nothing more than an uninformed reaction.
We must do better else- we are acknowledging that virtually "anyone" can become a police officer- and most anyone is.
9
Donna- I beg to differ. You have no clue what it is like to be put into a situation like this. Did you notice the fact that the family was in such duress that they did not even manage to get their vehicle off of the road and safely onto the shoulder, out of traffic? No, they were in such a panic that they had pulled off to the left and were sandwiched between the "passing" lane and the median wall. On I-85 in rural Coweta County in the dark of night, where people run at 80mph I am amazed that all of them and others were not killed. I would love to see your cool, calm demeanor in that situation dealing with a muscular, mentally disturbed man who is not just out of control, but crazy to the point that his own family could not get safely to the side of the road and had to call for help, because this guy wants "to get out of the car". Law enforcement personnel are human. In this case they have been thrust into in a highly dangerous situation (just being out of your car in that traffic setting is incredibly dangerous) and their adrenaline IS flowing. You talk about being able to control your adrenaline, passion and emotions, but you don't have a clue. There certainly are split second decisions that have to be made, its just that people like you, who live in their protected bubbles have never had to confront them because your military and law enforcement officials put themselves in harms way and do it every day. You my dear are naïve.
1
And you, "Simple Truth" are an apologist for very poor police training and very poor judgment on the part of these officers. Name the crime that required subduing this guy? That he was obstructing traffic? He was having a mental breakdown. He had no weapon, made no effort to attack the police. His single "crime" was resisting their efforts to control him. The police officers I know would find the behavior of these officers completely unacceptable and deeply saddening, since it further erodes respect and trust in the police.
2
reply to Simple Truth: Actually, I do know what its like to have a family member in dire emotional/mental crisis and trying to figure out what to do and having to place the dreaded 9-1-1 call and PRAY all turns out well; do not make assumptions. Your condescending and patronizing- aside; unless you have personally had to make such a call- you are merely parroting what you presume not what you know. Oh, and I also have family members in law enforcement.
2
Let's expose the cops names and put them on trial for murder.
6
"Sublethal" guys didn't look like they were going to stop until he was verbally and /pr physically unresponsive.
I'm so sorry for anyone who lost a life, or whose family lost a life in that.
May worst hours,
Summon Better Change.
Sincerely,
Teddy Pavle
I'm so sorry for anyone who lost a life, or whose family lost a life in that.
May worst hours,
Summon Better Change.
Sincerely,
Teddy Pavle
1
This all happened while wearing body cameras?
The more and more we learn, the worse things look.
Pretty soon tourists may stop visiting Amerika.
The more and more we learn, the worse things look.
Pretty soon tourists may stop visiting Amerika.
3
A potential loss of tourism is the least of our worries.
1
Every cop that's put on the street was a C or D student in high school. And we wonder why they don't have the capacity to think clearly during these moments.
4
The comment about grades is uncalled for and largely untrue.
6
I am glad this article was released.
It is time people realize that Police Brutality isn't only inflicted on African Americans. Does anybody remember the Chicago Convention, or Sacco and Vanzetti or dozens of other cases. I was once almost murdered by the police when I was 23.
I was getting off a subway at the Coney Island Station. Immediately after I exited the train, a man put a gun to my right temple and said "one false move and I shoot." I thought he was a hoodlum. I was terrified. I was so scared I almost made a provocative move and if he had deemed it a "false move," I might have been shot.
I soon learned that I had been apprehended because I fit the description of a man who allegedly stole Jewelry (Young man, light hair, leather jacket). I was taken to a cell where about 15 guys, with light hair and leather jackets, were being detained while we waited, for a seemingly interminable time, for the complaining lady to appear. None of us were guilty.
Now I realize that people who fit the description of criminals might need to be apprehended. But don't the cops realize that by startling someone, by appearing from behind and pointing a gun at someone's face, that person, so jolted and unnerved, may make a "false" or alarming move. If I had moved, I would have been shot.
While I was in the station, the cops asked me where I had been. When I said the Village, they said,"Oh, you're one of those." On my way out, I said I
I hoped the panthers came back
It is time people realize that Police Brutality isn't only inflicted on African Americans. Does anybody remember the Chicago Convention, or Sacco and Vanzetti or dozens of other cases. I was once almost murdered by the police when I was 23.
I was getting off a subway at the Coney Island Station. Immediately after I exited the train, a man put a gun to my right temple and said "one false move and I shoot." I thought he was a hoodlum. I was terrified. I was so scared I almost made a provocative move and if he had deemed it a "false move," I might have been shot.
I soon learned that I had been apprehended because I fit the description of a man who allegedly stole Jewelry (Young man, light hair, leather jacket). I was taken to a cell where about 15 guys, with light hair and leather jackets, were being detained while we waited, for a seemingly interminable time, for the complaining lady to appear. None of us were guilty.
Now I realize that people who fit the description of criminals might need to be apprehended. But don't the cops realize that by startling someone, by appearing from behind and pointing a gun at someone's face, that person, so jolted and unnerved, may make a "false" or alarming move. If I had moved, I would have been shot.
While I was in the station, the cops asked me where I had been. When I said the Village, they said,"Oh, you're one of those." On my way out, I said I
I hoped the panthers came back
15
Let's look at the psychological aspect of what's going on: A pack of dogs working themselves into a killing frenzy for the adrenaline rush.
5
Frank, you are a sick man. These officers were hardly a "pack of dogs working themselves into a killing frenzy". To the contrary, they were thrust into an incredibly dangerous situation - the middle of a rural interstate (not on the safety of the right hand emergency shoulder mind you, but in the median against a wall with their rear ends hanging out into the left-hand lane) in the dark, in 80mph traffic dealing with a very large man who was so crazed that his own family apparently could not get to the safety of the right hand emergency shoulder or the next exit, but instead pulled up against the median wall and called for help. Any sane person would be fearing for their life just by virtue of being out of their car on that spot in those circumstances. Given the circumstances (remember they were trying to subdue a guy who "wanted out" into traffic ( a danger to others) I think that they did the best that they could. It was an incredibly ugly, dangerous and taxing situation and they are human.
3
They may be good guys, but they sure are lousy cops.
EMS and ER staff deal with erratic, violent, and otherwise impaired persons all the time. They sedate them, treat them, and do their best to save their lives in the face of peril and chaos.
Why is it that police cannot do the same? Just because you carry a gun or a taser does not mean you have the right or even the option to murder someone. If that were the logic in the ER, surgeons would be purposefully stabbing patients with their scalpels when scenes escalated, shrugging their shoulders, and saying "he was being combative." Police are given the same old ridiculous "boys will be boys" treatment and it has to stop.
Why is it that police cannot do the same? Just because you carry a gun or a taser does not mean you have the right or even the option to murder someone. If that were the logic in the ER, surgeons would be purposefully stabbing patients with their scalpels when scenes escalated, shrugging their shoulders, and saying "he was being combative." Police are given the same old ridiculous "boys will be boys" treatment and it has to stop.
15
It took years to train police officers to respond to suicide calls. Now, I hope, police department will begin to train their officers on how to manage people with mental illness. Tasers are the latest toys in the arsenal of the police and for some officers it's just too much fun to use.
4
Finally we have the means to stand witness to the police brutality that seemingly happens on a daily basis in our country. If it wasn't for the body cams worn by the officers, we would probably never know the truth of what occurred in the back of that rental car.
I cannot count the number of times police officers in my small rural city have encountered someone barricaded in a house that resulted in the tragic death of a mentally disturbed person because the show of force meant there could only be a violent ending.
We are supposed to be a nation governed by laws, where suspects are presumed innocent until proven guilty. What we have become is a society where law enforcement brutalizes people suffering from mental illness and that forces violent responses by arriving at crime scenes with SWAT teams and officers carrying automatic assault rifles.
If we are to realize the tragic outcome of the militarization of of our domestic law enforcement we must require that every police officer and first responder be outfitted with body cams as well as dashboard cams. We can only hope that once we have seen enough brutality directed toward suspects average citizens will finally stand up and cry "Enough!"
I cannot count the number of times police officers in my small rural city have encountered someone barricaded in a house that resulted in the tragic death of a mentally disturbed person because the show of force meant there could only be a violent ending.
We are supposed to be a nation governed by laws, where suspects are presumed innocent until proven guilty. What we have become is a society where law enforcement brutalizes people suffering from mental illness and that forces violent responses by arriving at crime scenes with SWAT teams and officers carrying automatic assault rifles.
If we are to realize the tragic outcome of the militarization of of our domestic law enforcement we must require that every police officer and first responder be outfitted with body cams as well as dashboard cams. We can only hope that once we have seen enough brutality directed toward suspects average citizens will finally stand up and cry "Enough!"
4
Again the police being blamed for screwing up when trying to subdue an individual for getting out of control. This takes away responsibility that he got himself in the problem to start with. Stay away from Marihuana. If you don't you will suffer the consequences.
3
He deserved to die because he did drugs? What an incredibly merciless and sanctimonious attitude.
10
So patients who are confused because of encephalopathy, alzheimers, parkinsons, etc. should be responsible for getting themselves into that? You're obviously narrow in your thinking.
11
He was tased while he was handcuffed. He was tased until he died. That is murder, plain and simple. Cops do not have license to murder. Don't you know that?
7
"Do you understand maám this is for our protection."
I'm a nurse. This could easily be a patient in our unit..confused, combative, altered mental status, hitting, biting... But unlike these cops, we can't Tase, shoot or hurt the patient in any way. So most of the time, we end up with back or musculoskeletal injuries, but at the end of the day we go home with the satisfaction in our hearts that we've kept a patient safe no matter what. These cops get their salary directly from tax payers, but still have their own safety as the highest priority. Scary.
I'm a nurse. This could easily be a patient in our unit..confused, combative, altered mental status, hitting, biting... But unlike these cops, we can't Tase, shoot or hurt the patient in any way. So most of the time, we end up with back or musculoskeletal injuries, but at the end of the day we go home with the satisfaction in our hearts that we've kept a patient safe no matter what. These cops get their salary directly from tax payers, but still have their own safety as the highest priority. Scary.
26
Officers are human beings. Of course they will prioritize their own lives over those of hallucinating individuals. As would most other people in the world. Nothing is more powerful than the biological imperative of self-preservation
2
And yet, medical professionals continue to uphold the Hippocratic Oath every single days, often in situations far more dangerous than this one.
"Do no harm..."
"Do no harm..."
3
So nurses are not human beings? Do we resort to killing the patient as a means of self-preservation?
1
Handcuffed and subdued....tased AGAIN!
Cops still working. No administrative leave, just business as usual. Nothing new. Except THIS time, the victim is white.
Charges and punishment are in the pipeline.....believe that!!
Cops still working. No administrative leave, just business as usual. Nothing new. Except THIS time, the victim is white.
Charges and punishment are in the pipeline.....believe that!!
1
Are police that stupid? I guess they are. They are just brain-dead clueless when dealing with mentally ill or intoxicated people. They seem to be under the delusion (the police that is) that these people are going be act rationally and follow their direction and commands. And when they inevitably don't, the police use physical force that just escalates the situation. The bottom line is that the police in this country are extremely inept at thinking outside the box, often with tragic consequences to those unfortunate enough to encounter them.
9
What this video does not show is what the first officer saw when he arrived; we really don't know how Mr. Sherman was behaving prior to being tasered. Using a taser is likely appropriate for controlling a hallucinating individual who may be unintentionally threatening police officers.
None of that is an excuse, however, for repeatedly tasering an individual, especially if that individual is restrained. Mr. Sherman may have been able to grab at the taser, but it seems unlikely that he'd be able to use it effectively, since its barbs were already stuck in his hand, and his ongoing hallucinations as well as being tasered in the back by the other officer.
What really gets me, though, in the officers apparently did not consider that pressing Mr. Sherman into a tightly confined space, restrained and face-down, might be dangerous. Drugs, electrical current, and a position that makes it difficult to breathe don't typically react well to each other. Any one of the three could have killed him.
None of that is an excuse, however, for repeatedly tasering an individual, especially if that individual is restrained. Mr. Sherman may have been able to grab at the taser, but it seems unlikely that he'd be able to use it effectively, since its barbs were already stuck in his hand, and his ongoing hallucinations as well as being tasered in the back by the other officer.
What really gets me, though, in the officers apparently did not consider that pressing Mr. Sherman into a tightly confined space, restrained and face-down, might be dangerous. Drugs, electrical current, and a position that makes it difficult to breathe don't typically react well to each other. Any one of the three could have killed him.
4
Hey, how about this - don't do crazy drugs. You can't do any better than with good old, God given marijuana.
5
Because cops will handcuff you and tase you until you die. And you're ok with that.
2
I don't expect an outpouring of White demonstrations over this. Maybe after a few thousand people are killed by Police, the public will care. Think about that.
2
More whites are killed by police than any other group. Forget percentages by group for awhile. It's a problem when someone like this is killed no matter what the background. Look at it this way if you have a hundred dollars it doesn't matter if sixty percent is in twenties and forty percent is in tens. It's still a hundred dollars.
1
It is we the citizenry who are ill-equipped to deal with a militarized police force largely comprised of clinical sadists and violent goons bearing electrocution pistols.
8
I think it's worth mentioning that there are professionals out in the world who provide candidates for law enforcement jobs with courses on how to pass a police psychological examination.
It's also worth mentioned that the former boyfriend of my sister, an NYC police officer, once told me that everything about being a cop in this country was great "...until that damn body camera came along."
It's also worth mentioned that the former boyfriend of my sister, an NYC police officer, once told me that everything about being a cop in this country was great "...until that damn body camera came along."
9
First, had the poor guy been black, it would have been cold bullets, not tasers, fired into his body at the first sign of resistance.
But as always, the main thing to blame here for yet another unnecessary murder is police cowardice, egoism, and impunity.
Cowardice: Convince these cops that they are not entitled to murder people every time they sense fear.
Egoism: Convince cops that they are not Gods! They don't get to murder people just because they are not prostrating before their authority! People could be too agitated to prostrate for a whole lot of good reasons, cops should try to find out what might be behind the resistance before they take life.
Impunity: End the culture of police impunity! There is should be absolute accountability for every life cops take! Make cops understand that killing is never supposed to be just another task they get to undertake with impunity; killing is not anything like filling their patrol cars with gas! There should be serous consequences for every unnecessary killing!
But as always, the main thing to blame here for yet another unnecessary murder is police cowardice, egoism, and impunity.
Cowardice: Convince these cops that they are not entitled to murder people every time they sense fear.
Egoism: Convince cops that they are not Gods! They don't get to murder people just because they are not prostrating before their authority! People could be too agitated to prostrate for a whole lot of good reasons, cops should try to find out what might be behind the resistance before they take life.
Impunity: End the culture of police impunity! There is should be absolute accountability for every life cops take! Make cops understand that killing is never supposed to be just another task they get to undertake with impunity; killing is not anything like filling their patrol cars with gas! There should be serous consequences for every unnecessary killing!
10
I hope your readers now understand that the problem is police misconduct and poor training. It certainly does exist and needs to be eliminated.
The BLM movement is a step in the wrong direction. BLM turns this into a racial issue, which is inherently divisive.
Instead, people of all races should work together to address police misconduct, based on universal principles.
The BLM movement is a step in the wrong direction. BLM turns this into a racial issue, which is inherently divisive.
Instead, people of all races should work together to address police misconduct, based on universal principles.
3
The police are out of control and their most frequent victims are indeed people of color. It IS in part a racial (and socioeconomic) issue. Further, people of color are the least likely to receive justice when police brutality, misconduct, in some cases, murder, occur.
8
A step in the wrong direction?
The Black Lives Matter movement is a STATEMENT.
How could you possibly be more knowledgeable about the "next best step" to take than the very people who have been systematically oppressed, enslaved, beaten, incarcerated, and murdered for centuries because of their race?
The best way to "work together"? Don't belittle the needs, ideas, and movements of the oppressed.
The Black Lives Matter movement is a STATEMENT.
How could you possibly be more knowledgeable about the "next best step" to take than the very people who have been systematically oppressed, enslaved, beaten, incarcerated, and murdered for centuries because of their race?
The best way to "work together"? Don't belittle the needs, ideas, and movements of the oppressed.
1
This what happens when we as a society tolerate and excuse police abuse of minorities. They get used to it. Routine escalation, excessive force and lack of effective discipline at all levels become part of their culture. And then we are surprised when they start committing similar abuses against "us" - the supposedly law-biding majority.
We can see this it the way they now frequently treat people with psychiatric episodes, the same way they have become accustomed to treating minorities. Racism may have been the initial impulse, but it has now the problem is a a feeling of unaccountable power and entitlement. (The main excuse given now for these killings is that the officer felt threatened, not that the victim was a threat to the public.)
We have to realize the police in America are out of control. Do other seemingly civilized countries, as in Europe, have these kinds of episodes on almost a weekly basis? I would never call the police for "help" in a situation like this anywhere in the United States.
We can see this it the way they now frequently treat people with psychiatric episodes, the same way they have become accustomed to treating minorities. Racism may have been the initial impulse, but it has now the problem is a a feeling of unaccountable power and entitlement. (The main excuse given now for these killings is that the officer felt threatened, not that the victim was a threat to the public.)
We have to realize the police in America are out of control. Do other seemingly civilized countries, as in Europe, have these kinds of episodes on almost a weekly basis? I would never call the police for "help" in a situation like this anywhere in the United States.
7
Weren't tasers introduced so that cops wouldn't have to use lethal force, i.e. gunfire, to subdue violent people? Apparently, Georgia's sheriff's deputies haven't gotten the memo.
No training and a culture of paramilitarism. It's no wonder that cops in this country are completely out of control.
No training and a culture of paramilitarism. It's no wonder that cops in this country are completely out of control.
7
When they called 911 they should have requested medical help not police.
3
good point. Why weren't EMTs sent instead of the police? I assume that police officers, when they get are dispatched to such a situation, kind of assume that the situation has escalated beyond other types of intervention or that EMTs were not dispatched because the individual was violently non-coopertaive.
1
When you call 911 here you are asked whether you want police, fire or medical. If any one of them gets there and evaluates the situation's needs they can call the others in.
If I were in a position where I had to get help to someone having a mental health episode; be it natural, drug-related, or whatever, calling the police would be my absolute last resort – because of the chance police would end up doing more harm than good. I would even feel some trepidation calling 911 for fear they would send cops instead of EMTs.
My heart goes out to Chase Sherman’s parents. I can’t imagine the pain that comes from having made the 911 call that brought the people who killed your child while you watched. Put yourself in the shoes of Chase Sherman’s mother and imagine the horror of this scene.
My heart goes out to Chase Sherman’s parents. I can’t imagine the pain that comes from having made the 911 call that brought the people who killed your child while you watched. Put yourself in the shoes of Chase Sherman’s mother and imagine the horror of this scene.
12
Who would you call? Do you think this person's fellow travelers were concerned for their own safety?
In a dark alley and all alone, would you rather cross paths with one of these officers, or with the suspect out of his mind?
In a dark alley and all alone, would you rather cross paths with one of these officers, or with the suspect out of his mind?
Only in America. Really, for those of you who defend the cops in this country, how do you explain how police in the rest of the developed world are perfectly capable of dealing with petty criminals, accident victims, children playing with toy guns, people not signaling a turn, people with an expired registration, people suffering from mental illness, or people on drugs, without choking, tasing or shooting them to death? Why is that a country with less than 5% of the world population has 25% of all the imprisoned people in the world? Our country is a sick, sick place when it comes to law enforcement. Can't we please look outside our "exceptional" borders for the cure?
24
My impression is that when confronted with a combative and incoherent person (or just combative person) who resists police authority, the police feel that their duty is to the community (others around them) and NOT to the combative person. The police, I assume, think their job is safeguard everybody who is NOT the combative person. They probably do not think their job is social worker or therapist or mental health counselor. Their job is to be a shield between the problematic person and the innocent bystanders.
Many commenters imply that a police officer should be a mental health worker. is that truly what people think? To be a psychiatrist, a person needs a college degree AND a medical degree.
Many commenters imply that a police officer should be a mental health worker. is that truly what people think? To be a psychiatrist, a person needs a college degree AND a medical degree.
4
This is so tragic. I understand that controlling a large individual who seems out of control is hard, but it seems to me that better training is needed for a police officer who is carrying multiple weapons so that they can better assess the situation. Was the man armed? No. Was the man having a mental health episode? Possibly. For the latter, it is likely backup is needed, WITHOUT deployment of weaponry. I can't say being shouted at by a police officer makes for a calm situation. What if the person is not able to understand what is being said or demanded, or is unable to comply for whatever reason? The officer began using his taser immediately, and attempting to tackle the person alone. And then, rather than be devastated that he had killed someone, all he seemed concerned about was losing his job. Better training might lead to better decisions made in the heat of the moment.
6
For some for some unknown reason our country seems to be opposed to the idea of non lethal force used by authority. I can think of a couple of ways to subdue someone without killing them right off the bat. Tranquilizer dart, net, blinding light, I'm sure there are others that might be harmful but not fatal. Should not we be researching these and making them available throughout the land?
2
These cop panicked. Just another example of police lacking skill sets in deal with individuals with mental disorders.
6
There needs to be a change, the police need to create special units to handle situations like this, rather than the cop on the beat thrown into a wild situation a special squad should be formed, one trained to handle these situations, part police, part EMS, street drugs are getting cheaper and more powerful, the action they have on the human mind are truly frightening, the police force needs to evolve. Less money and resources should be squandered on Vice crime, and more resources should go to policing psychologically impaired individuals.
1
I didn't notice any written mention of the man's race, as so many of the recent articles on this subject denote. Was that an oversight?
2
That video was so sad to watch.
The encounter shows no attempt to first talk to the suspect, at least ONE ATTEMPT to calm him down. He's treated like a criminal instantly instead of what was reported: he's trying to jump out of and he bit his girlfriend. Hardly a homicidal maniac, folks. SMH…. another dead citizen, another dead son, husband, brother, friend.
We need a special sub-force of cops that deal with people on mind-altering substances and in the throes of mental illness. Less, as we can see, is inhumane and not justifiable.
My condolences to the family who endured watching a horror visited upon their beloved Chase Sherman.
The encounter shows no attempt to first talk to the suspect, at least ONE ATTEMPT to calm him down. He's treated like a criminal instantly instead of what was reported: he's trying to jump out of and he bit his girlfriend. Hardly a homicidal maniac, folks. SMH…. another dead citizen, another dead son, husband, brother, friend.
We need a special sub-force of cops that deal with people on mind-altering substances and in the throes of mental illness. Less, as we can see, is inhumane and not justifiable.
My condolences to the family who endured watching a horror visited upon their beloved Chase Sherman.
3
. . . and Canada is moving forwards with legalizing cannabis, in spite of the growing proof that it can cause psychosis is some people.
1
Dear Rik Zak,
Sorry, but 'synthetic marijuana' has no cannabis in it. It is a mix of chemicals, nothing to do with good old harmless weed. To date, marijuana has not been shown to cause psychosis in anyone. Some people who were already suffering from severe mental illness have had psychotic episodes while using it and other drugs, but that's not a direct correlation.
Also almost nobody who is in favor of legalizing marijuana is also in favor of legalizing this toxic crud.
Sorry, but 'synthetic marijuana' has no cannabis in it. It is a mix of chemicals, nothing to do with good old harmless weed. To date, marijuana has not been shown to cause psychosis in anyone. Some people who were already suffering from severe mental illness have had psychotic episodes while using it and other drugs, but that's not a direct correlation.
Also almost nobody who is in favor of legalizing marijuana is also in favor of legalizing this toxic crud.
you are correct about synthetic marijuana but your beliefs about cannibis are simply NOT TRUE.
marijuana in its current horticulturally amped form is well known to induce psychosis in a small subset of users. some medical researchers have shown a link between teen usage and schizophrenia but that is less clear (though 8/9 longitudinal studies examining this link suggest it is real).
even some advocates for legalization feel the age of lawful use should be deferred to the mid twenties, after full frontal lobe development.
marijuana in its current horticulturally amped form is well known to induce psychosis in a small subset of users. some medical researchers have shown a link between teen usage and schizophrenia but that is less clear (though 8/9 longitudinal studies examining this link suggest it is real).
even some advocates for legalization feel the age of lawful use should be deferred to the mid twenties, after full frontal lobe development.
Watching the video just confirms my belief that for any matter related to family's members or relatives, do not call police for assistance.
4
So we are back in Colonial times - when the authorities used a procedure called "pressing"; placing heavy weights on people until they either say what you want to hear, or they die.
The fact that the victim said "I quit" before he died, should be enough to put the cops in jail - torture is supposed to work - not kill the victim.
Of course, in Colonial times, they did not have Tasers - they used the "ducking stool" instead.
There is a lot of talk about training; the problem isn't a lack of training - it IS the training, which is all "us and them" thinking.
The one positive thing about this pathetic incident, is that it shows how badly needed police body cameras are: without them, there can be no improvement.
The fact that the victim said "I quit" before he died, should be enough to put the cops in jail - torture is supposed to work - not kill the victim.
Of course, in Colonial times, they did not have Tasers - they used the "ducking stool" instead.
There is a lot of talk about training; the problem isn't a lack of training - it IS the training, which is all "us and them" thinking.
The one positive thing about this pathetic incident, is that it shows how badly needed police body cameras are: without them, there can be no improvement.
5
Since no one else ask the question that I can see,I will:
Sherman was completely inside the car and handcuffed. Why couldnt they step back and then close and lock the doors?
Sherman was completely inside the car and handcuffed. Why couldnt they step back and then close and lock the doors?
7
That would severely restrict the ability of the officers to act like macho imbeciles and take their seething aggressions out on a handcuffed man.
5
Can anyone help me out here: why is the officer so panicked when Mr. Sherman grabs his Taser? It is my understanding of this weapon that once the darts have been fired, and the electrodes set in the subject, that's it. Repeated shocks can be administered, but the Taser can't be redirected at another individual.
3
Best to stay far away from cops. They've changed, throughout the country... paranoid out of shape and reactive.
4
Police are clearly not trained to deal with folks on drugs/hallucinating, and certainly not the mentally ill who get out of control. Perhaps part of their regular training should be spending time in E.R.s, as well as in patient, observing acute mental illness episodes and how trained medical staff deal with it. Even with excellent training some tragic outcomes will still occur, but far less. This isn't about racism; it's about lack of knowledge and inadequate preparation.
If that is accurate, it is horrifying. Unfortunately, we can't trust media reports without some verification. Even then, you have to hope recordings haven't been doctored.
In these situations dealing with an out of control mentally disturbed person, perhaps the police should be accompanied by a trained medical professional who could administer a tranquilizer to the suspect. Seems to me, calming a disturbed individual down and getting him to a safe place is preferable diffusion method to electrocution.
I suspect most commenters have no idea of the physical strength of someone experiencing a drug-induced psychotic episode. Such people are terrifying.
I'm no admirer of cops. Too many of them are poorly-trained, unstable individuals themselves.
But I'm willing to bet that this particular tragedy was the culmination of a cascading series of terrible choices by this man's family.
Did they just not want to miss a long-planned wedding, despite ominous signs that Mr. Sherman was unwell? Did they fly home because changing their tickets to let him rest a little longer was expensive? Did they just want to get home after arriving back in the US, though he was probably over-stressed at that point? Had they ignored, overlooked or minimized or excused months or years of unstable behavior?
If your loved one isn't able to make good choices for himself/herself, someone else needs to step up and make the right decisions. Tragedies like this happen every day and they are often the last stop in a bad train ride.
I'm no admirer of cops. Too many of them are poorly-trained, unstable individuals themselves.
But I'm willing to bet that this particular tragedy was the culmination of a cascading series of terrible choices by this man's family.
Did they just not want to miss a long-planned wedding, despite ominous signs that Mr. Sherman was unwell? Did they fly home because changing their tickets to let him rest a little longer was expensive? Did they just want to get home after arriving back in the US, though he was probably over-stressed at that point? Had they ignored, overlooked or minimized or excused months or years of unstable behavior?
If your loved one isn't able to make good choices for himself/herself, someone else needs to step up and make the right decisions. Tragedies like this happen every day and they are often the last stop in a bad train ride.
3
My heart goes out to his mother. Terrible. To have called the police who then killed her son must be the worst grief a person could know.
242
A small minority of cops are psychologically unsuited for the job. They are insecure and think that having a gun and a badge will automatically garner respect... And they tend to react in bad ways when that isn't what happens.
A more common problem is that the government has not really figured out how different situations should be handled and even when it has, they have not effectively trained the cops how implement that policy. This means the cops, when confronted with an unusual situation like the one here are left to just figure it out.
If this guy had been acting crazy in most big city hospital ER's, a couple of orderlies would have grabbed him and a doctor or nurse would have injected a sedative and he'd have been admitted until they figured out what the problem was. What's the difference?... Training and experience.
I don't get the impression that the two deputies had any intention of killing or injuring this guy but they had no idea how to subdue him and the only tools they had apart from their Glocks were the tazers. Big city ER doctors and nurses confront violent crazy people on a nightly basis but they have safer and more effective tools than a tazer. In this case, why didn't the EMT administer a sedative?
A more common problem is that the government has not really figured out how different situations should be handled and even when it has, they have not effectively trained the cops how implement that policy. This means the cops, when confronted with an unusual situation like the one here are left to just figure it out.
If this guy had been acting crazy in most big city hospital ER's, a couple of orderlies would have grabbed him and a doctor or nurse would have injected a sedative and he'd have been admitted until they figured out what the problem was. What's the difference?... Training and experience.
I don't get the impression that the two deputies had any intention of killing or injuring this guy but they had no idea how to subdue him and the only tools they had apart from their Glocks were the tazers. Big city ER doctors and nurses confront violent crazy people on a nightly basis but they have safer and more effective tools than a tazer. In this case, why didn't the EMT administer a sedative?
91
Engineer,
I am a PHRN (pre-hospital registered nurse), and I can tell you exactly why the EMTs did not administer a sedative to Mr. Sherman. He was in cardiac arrest when they arrived, and the EMTs first duty was to attempt resuscitation, which they did. A sedative would have complicated those efforts and would be completely unnecessary--a dead person is incapable of any kind of resistance to care and is incapable of posing a threat to anyone.
I am a PHRN (pre-hospital registered nurse), and I can tell you exactly why the EMTs did not administer a sedative to Mr. Sherman. He was in cardiac arrest when they arrived, and the EMTs first duty was to attempt resuscitation, which they did. A sedative would have complicated those efforts and would be completely unnecessary--a dead person is incapable of any kind of resistance to care and is incapable of posing a threat to anyone.
The EMT in this situation - sat upon the young man who was hallucinating and fighting to get up while being pinned between the front and back seats of the car. This is an ugly scenario made worse with the profanity and action of the police; cursed, screamed at and Tasered repeatedly by police brutality.
* The moral of the story is never - ever- call the police for assistance while in the U.S. because more likely than not you will end up dead before getting any police assistance that will help you.
* The moral of the story is never - ever- call the police for assistance while in the U.S. because more likely than not you will end up dead before getting any police assistance that will help you.
If the quotation in the article is correct, the EMT joined in the fun. “I got all the weight of the world on him now,” the medical technician can be heard saying as he pushed down on Mr. Sherman’s body.
WHAT sort of country are we living in when these sorts of events happen so frequently? I feel ASHAMED to call myself an American each time I hear about an utterly unnecessary and unjust death of a person at the hands of the police. Societies are judged, not on how well we treat the best among us but the worst. Compassion and fairness and justice are the hallmarks of a great society and by repeated examples of cases such as this we diminish ourselves not only in the eyes of the free world but among all decent people here at home as well who are constantly being forced to question the values of the society in which we live. We hear about these cases, the news reports them, and we go on about our business until the next event. Do decent people in this country really feel that we can continue this way without fatally damaging the fiber of this country? I'm utterly disgusted - repelled, but this and similar stories and until we begin making systemic changes to our police procedures, we as Americans have NOTHING to teach or preach to the rest of the free world.
130
First off, we live in a country with 320 million people- events such as these do not occur frequently, when compared to how massive our population is. Also, what do you want the police to do in this situation? They were not responsible for this young man taking a drug that is known to cause hallucinations. They were not the ones who decided against taking a clearly disturbed man to a hospital at the first sign of illness. They were not the ones who decided that the best place to deal with a disturbed man was on a highway. The police had to deal with the last in a line of terrible decisions made by the deceased man and his family. Obviously this death was not necessary. He was killed because he was out of control and putting officers in danger. The family had multiple chances to take the man to a hospital and deal with the illness, but they chose not to do so. Some blame must rest with the family, as they put officers in the position to deal with an out of control individual. Cops are not mental health professionals, and are not expected to be so. The officers saw a threat and dealt with it as they are trained to do so
3
He would've died had he successfully jumped out of that car. He would've lived if he hadn't been paying terrorists and murderers for recreational drugs. I think the EMT, the police, the mom and the fiance did all they could to stop him from killing himself but we can't save everyone who chooses drugs over life.
2
This doesn't happen frequently. It gets covered frequently. Big difference.
Asking a person to relax while being continuously tasered makes absolutely no sense considering that once you get tased you body under goes uncontrolled convulsions.
These police officers might need a little retraining.
These police officers might need a little retraining.
8
This incident, like so many others in recent years, reveals underlying problems with our mental health (or behavioral health) systems, our law enforcement systems and the overlap between those two sets of systems. There is a need for a some sort of behavioral health emergency services which can be dispatched in lieu of conventional police officers when an individual is having some sort of behavioral health crisis, such as dissociation or psychosis.
Ideally, those providing behavioral health emergency services would have the proper tools and training to minimize the risk to themselves, others and the person who was in crisis. They would understand that pointing weapons at a person in crisis whom is in a dissociative or psychotic state will not improve the situation.
Ideally, those providing behavioral health emergency services would have the proper tools and training to minimize the risk to themselves, others and the person who was in crisis. They would understand that pointing weapons at a person in crisis whom is in a dissociative or psychotic state will not improve the situation.
4
He smoked one day before. He was not having a 'drug-induced breakdown.' He was having a mental problem, maybe unmasked by drugs. Killing him was kind of final, wasn't it? These cops are nuts and need to be fired.
10
One thing that seems apparent from the video is that these cops were ill-equipped to handle a mentally-disturbed person. Their hyped-up, profanity laced, physical response did nothing to calm the situation, it only inflamed it. It was readily apparent in the video that their tactics, which may be all well and good when attempting to subdue the usual criminal suspect, were completely inappropriate when attempting to restrain and calm someone who is not, and not going to, react rationally due to a mental problem. I don't know what the answer is, but I agree with commenters who say that you are putting your loved ones at extreme risk if you call the police during episodes like this. This is all cops are trained to do: Threaten violence if you don't immediately and unequivocally follow their orders, and then inflict that violence until you comply or you die. They are the proverbial workmen who only possess a hammer -- every problem has to solved by pounding it into submission.
259
Was the man mentally disturbed due to his choice to take drugs, or was this a natural occurrence which he had no control? We don't actually know. Even so, if a man is willing to run into traffic and die as a result of poor circumstances, we can't blame the cops for trying to help the only way they can. Not all policemen can be ready for all situations. Was the intention of the cops to kill? I don't think so.
Dumb Cops + Complex Instrument + False Assurances of Less Lethality = Reckless Use & Death.
America's cops are too dumb for their jobs.
America's cops are too dumb for their jobs.
4
It's time people realized that you can't get rid of bad apples when the barrel itself is rotten.
7
Marines would be safer than cops. Too many cops are egomaniacs who hyperventilate at the smallest obstruction. They're dangerous.
7
Cops today over use Tasers, seeing them as substations for calm, common sense intervention or even as substitutions for getting one's hands dirty with direct physical control. As an officer I never liked Tasers or what they represented. SFPD, my former organization, has been lobbying unsuccessfully for Tasers for years. The issuance and use has been delayed - rightly so - by the police commission and the city's board of supervisors. More Taser use will result in more Taser abuse, leading to deaths and endless lawsuits and settlements. The officers in this video obviously lacked any type of crisis intervention training or common sense officer safety.
123
The SFPD's official line is that fewer people will be shot if they have Tasers, but unfortunately they've shown a lack of skill at handling common situations without grave bodily harm of some sort resulting. Police in other countries seem more adept at subduing even armed suspects without bloodshed, and perhaps SF should pay them to take working vacations in that beautiful city showing the local police what they know. If the SFPD gets Tasers, I fear we'll end up with people tased and then shot (when the Taser is deemed "ineffective") , as well as the occasional nosy journalist tased "by mistake."
Can anyone explain to me why the United States is a better or safer place to live than Mexico?
6
Go move then! See what happens when the cops are completely owned by cartels
3
The tools are not the problem, the real issue are the actions of the police officers. Tasers are considered less-than-lethal weapons; that doesn't mean that it can't kill someone. Nonetheless, I prefer it to the alternative.
"Died after taser shocks"? A "fatal encounter"? He was MURDERED by the police!
9
Yet another casualty of the war on drugs. Legal access to cannabis would have prevented this.
Okay, so this poor guy had been having psychotic episodes for several days and was so bad that the parents rented a car instead of flying back home as originally planned and then, instead of bringing him to a hospital as they had NUMEROUS chances to do along the drive, they wait til he's completely violent & crazy and then pull onto the left shoulder of a freeway, thus putting their lives and the responding cops lives in jeopardy from on-coming traffic. And now they're complaining that the cops used too much force!! Had they pulled into parking lot or rest area, the cops would've been able to respond with less force. What if this guy had kicked one of the cops into on-coming traffic? Everyone would be like "Oh the poor cop, too bad for him", but he would be dead. What if the guy had Tasered the cop and then run into traffic and gotten himself killed--the parents would blame the cops. Poor decisions were made here but not by the cops, they were made by this guy's family.
4
I think you are being unfair. The article states he seemed better once the family landed. They were scared and I know from personal experience family members often make poor decisions when frightened and panicked. It is up to law enforcement to know how to handle situations like these. They are trained and are expected to behave in a professional manner, which these cops clearly failed to do.
4
In reply to Cheryl: This article says "he bit his girlfriend and tried to jump out of the back seat of the car as the family drove through Georgia" Then the next paragraph says that they were an hour outside Atlanta, with the fiance driving, when the fiance pulled the car over on the highway. This article makes it sound like there was a time lapse between when he first bit her and when she pulled over --presumably he'd bit her when she'd been sitting with him in the back seat, probably trying to calm him down. That's the way it reads.
This article, in my opinion, is unfair to the cops in that no weight is given to the fact that the vehicle was parked in a very dangerous manner when the family finally decided to get help. This article ays they were "parked on the shoulder" but neglects to say it was the left shoulder. It's only if you take the time watch the video that you learn that.
This article, in my opinion, is unfair to the cops in that no weight is given to the fact that the vehicle was parked in a very dangerous manner when the family finally decided to get help. This article ays they were "parked on the shoulder" but neglects to say it was the left shoulder. It's only if you take the time watch the video that you learn that.
4
And yet they could have just tranquilized the man instead of shocking him repeatedly and the man would still be alive. As the saying goes, when the only tool you have is an hammer, everything looks like a nail.
2
google why don't cops use tranquilizer guns.
You people are morons. First off, how are they decide on what dosage to use? Secondly, only qualified medical professionals can administer tranquilizers so I guess they will need to recruit doctors. Lastly, in addition to a weapon, tazer, nightstick, cops should now have tranquilizer guns and nets?
1
"I really haven't formed a final opinion about it..." Good god, police can essentially kill someone, you watch the entire scene unfold on video as if you were there and you can't form an opinion? The police officers should be tried for manslaughter at the very least. The fact that they're still on the force is quite disturbing.
7
These officers need to be arrested and charged with murder. Absolutely horrifying stuff.
12
Since I arrived in the United States from the UK in 1975 I have constantly been shocked by the heavy-handedness of so much policing in this country. The main dynamic seems to be a power trip by the law enforcers who are armed and hold all the cards. What had this man done actually to warrant anything like this stupid, brutish response? I have seen many video of police violence in recent years but somehow this is the worst. It makes me sick to my stomach and it makes me wonder why on earth citizens put up with this kind of thuggery.
351
In much of the country the cops are chickens with badges and guns. They need to lay off the donuts and head for the gym... Or get real smart and learn to analyze people better... that takes brains or a good education first...
1
True, in Europe one really does not know this extreme violence from the police. Nor the shoot-to-kill confrontations.
Situations where american citizens are killed or molested by the police would have had a totally different ending in Europe. The citizens would have been alive in the end and been brought to real justice.
Police officers cannot act like criminals because - then they are.
Situations where american citizens are killed or molested by the police would have had a totally different ending in Europe. The citizens would have been alive in the end and been brought to real justice.
Police officers cannot act like criminals because - then they are.
This is simple. Because Americans want the police to keep these people - usually drug users and minorities - away from the rest of us. They don't care how they do it or the outcome. They're rewarded for obtaining the goal.
"Mr. Stewart said the prosecutor’s office told him this week that the deputies had not been suspended and were still working."
They killed a man with extreme malice and they are still working? What is Georgia waiting for - a second example of incompetence and brutality by these malignant buffoons?
We are left to conclude that this is the level of police competency in the fine state of Georgia.
They killed a man with extreme malice and they are still working? What is Georgia waiting for - a second example of incompetence and brutality by these malignant buffoons?
We are left to conclude that this is the level of police competency in the fine state of Georgia.
2
Extreme malice? I don't think the officers got the call and started saying to themselves "oh wow a mentally disturbed man- I haven't killed one of those in a while. Fire up the tasers boys we're shocking him until he's dead". This situation would not occurred has the deceased not taking a drug that is known to make individuals hallucinate and act recklessly. Maybe we should ask whether the parents enabled this type of behavior, or whether the deceased should shoulder the blame for taking a drug that can cause violent hallucinations. I'm sorry, you're right, this is America, where the individual is never at fault for anything.
3
Dan New York: oh yeah, maybe blame the parents of the dead man. How about blaming the parents of the cops for raising sons whose approach was to keep shocking a man restrained in handcuffs who had someone sitting on him. He was shocked into unconsciousness and death. Do you think maybe there should have been some restraint on the part of the cops? Maybe they should have had the brains to call EMTs who might have been better trained? His death certificate called it a homicide, which, coming from the coroner is evidence that it was extreme - most coroners, working with the police, would have attributed his death to cardiac arrest and left it there.
3
Play stupid games and win stupid prizes. Call the police to fix other peoples poor life choices and blame them when it doesn't work out in their favor.
3
First of all, the most non-obvious part of this story - parasailing operations are completely unregulated. BE CAREFUL when doing these types of things on vacation (the decedent worked at a parasailing operation).
Secondly, if anything this shows me police treat people the same, regardless of racial makeup. They didn't treat him any differently than they'd treat someone else. And for those of you saying the cops don't have the training to deal with this type of thing - first of all, they can't be trained to deal with every eventuality, and second, what did you want them to do, stand idly by while this guy runs off into traffic on a freeway and cause a pileup? C'mon, folks.
Sometimes these men and women have to deal with very, very difficult circumstances. They do their best, but ya can't win 'em all.
Secondly, if anything this shows me police treat people the same, regardless of racial makeup. They didn't treat him any differently than they'd treat someone else. And for those of you saying the cops don't have the training to deal with this type of thing - first of all, they can't be trained to deal with every eventuality, and second, what did you want them to do, stand idly by while this guy runs off into traffic on a freeway and cause a pileup? C'mon, folks.
Sometimes these men and women have to deal with very, very difficult circumstances. They do their best, but ya can't win 'em all.
3
Chase Sherman was repeatedly tased while restrained with handcuffs.
Chase Sherman was murdered and a jury is needed to affirm that reality.
Chase Sherman was murdered and a jury is needed to affirm that reality.
7
Wild guess: the cops will be cleared.
1
I endured trying circumstances when my son was questioned by the local police in the back of a squad car concerning his possession of a toy gun, a fake assault rifle not built to scale. The police officer insisted that he question my child of 18 alone in his patrol car in front of our home or my son would spend the night in jail and appear before a judge in the morning. The back up cops reassured me that in their eyes, the "gun" was a fake that presented no threat. The PD failed to question let alone pursue the man who drew a real 357 Magnum on my son and his friends because they walked on his lawn. The boys found the toy gun near the gun wielder's home.
I agreed to the questioning contingent upon my watching the proceedings at an acceptable distance from the police car. to appease the police officer. I told the police officer that I would not allow a hair out of place on my son's head during his interrogation.
The shocking NYT video and my personal experiences with overzealous local cops confirms my wariness of the police when it comes to the well being of my family. I object to their aggressive tactics and their insistence that people become like inanimate objects upon questioning. I held my breath until our son was returned to our care. I think that the cops can be equally unpredictable with the defense that their actions are justified because of their personal safety concerns.
I agreed to the questioning contingent upon my watching the proceedings at an acceptable distance from the police car. to appease the police officer. I told the police officer that I would not allow a hair out of place on my son's head during his interrogation.
The shocking NYT video and my personal experiences with overzealous local cops confirms my wariness of the police when it comes to the well being of my family. I object to their aggressive tactics and their insistence that people become like inanimate objects upon questioning. I held my breath until our son was returned to our care. I think that the cops can be equally unpredictable with the defense that their actions are justified because of their personal safety concerns.
15
In case you don't realize this your 18 year old "child" is an adult and you technically have nothing to do with a situation you weren't a part of. Hopefully your adult child was treated with respect.
He will always be my son and child regardless of his age, and I will defend him to my death under any and all circumstances whether I am p[resent or not, particularly when he is accused of wrong doings that he did not commit. As his father, I will see to his welfare as long as we both walk this earth. It is called a father's love. He, my wife and I were not treated with respect by the police officer which is the reason that I wrote my post.
1
It seems to me that if one has a situation with a family member who is out of control there is no one to call other than the police. That's a horrible position to put them in and, as shown in this article, dangerous. Perhaps there could be a unit specifically trained to handle such situations or even better a medical team? I can't say that I fault the officers in this situation either. They appear to be trying their best, but far too much was asked of them. It's one of those all around sad situations that possibly could have been avoided if the right resources were available but was inevitable with enough interactions between mentally ill patients and police. This isn't what they're trained for or used to.
2
"Perhaps there could be a unit specifically trained to handle such situations or even better a medical team?"
That costs money. We've blown it all on napalm, fighter jets and bailing out the Wall Street filth.
That costs money. We've blown it all on napalm, fighter jets and bailing out the Wall Street filth.
3
I think the rule of thumb here is to NOT call the police for anyone who is under mental or physical duress. They are not trained to respond appropriately to the person in need. Locally, a similar thing happened when a man in his 80's distraught over the death of his wife of 60 years walked around the neighborhood with a pen knife. Cops were called and all eight sheriff's deputies plus a German Shephard dog were released on the poor man. They put him in the hospital, and he died a month later. There should be a separate department with trained professionals in the field of mental health that deal with these situations with the cops used only as backup. Tragic for this family.
7
Why are people surprised that Tasers kill? The "non-lethal" label is obviously false, proven by hundreds of deaths and court cases (including civil rights cases by the ACLU, year after year). It's the electric chair without the chair. Cops shouldn't have multiple lethal devices. Also, why are people surprised that body cameras don't prevent murder? The problem wasn't lack of cameras, the problem is the cops themselves. Some of them shouldn't be cops, and cameras won't make them magically better people. We need to stop putting all our faith is technology and get better humans in these jobs.
3
Are there not confining alternatives, such as leg shackles? seat belts? officers in the back seat?
Are those "police officers" stupid or cowardly? All law enforcement officers should know and be rigorously trained to remain calm around people who are disoriented by drugs or illnesses.
Shame on these "officers" who murdered a person in need of medical care.
Are those "police officers" stupid or cowardly? All law enforcement officers should know and be rigorously trained to remain calm around people who are disoriented by drugs or illnesses.
Shame on these "officers" who murdered a person in need of medical care.
1
I was there. I was a dorm parent with a student who had gone into the city and came back with some pot laced with PCP. He was, to put it mildly, "reactive". To put it not mildly, he was having a very bad trip and was not in control of his brain or his body. When I went into his room, he looked at me like a wild dog would look, dangerous and scared. I got the head of school and the largest, strongest student and the three of us drove him to the nearest hospital. With blankets, strength, calm and wisdom, we got him to a safe place. I don't blame the deputies too much, although a case of involuntary manslaughter seems plausible here, but the training was clearly horrible, and the code of conduct was missing a few chapters. The fact is: an untrained teacher could and did do better than trained police officers. Go figure.
222
The reason you handled it better is that you did not feel you had a "license to kill."
2
The way i figure it is-you cared about the life and safety of the individual involved, while the police in most cases just want to end the confrontation with the perp, and walk away as unscathed as possible. They forgot along the way that the job they picked as their profession is designed for them to protect and serve the public.
Maybe, but they don't care. Why would they? They don't know him.
I think you are exactly wrong: I think they remember that their job is to protect and serve the public, and they think this person endangers the public. As soon as a person resists arrest he ceases to be part of the public. He becomes a threat to the public.
I'm a moderate. I believe that blame can be attributed to individuals and not only to (corrupt) systems. Some people are not fit to be members of society. I am not saying that's true of this poor sap, but I think some people are essentially anti-social, and I do NOT mean Wall Street employees. I mean people who are just dangerous to society.
I think you are exactly wrong: I think they remember that their job is to protect and serve the public, and they think this person endangers the public. As soon as a person resists arrest he ceases to be part of the public. He becomes a threat to the public.
I'm a moderate. I believe that blame can be attributed to individuals and not only to (corrupt) systems. Some people are not fit to be members of society. I am not saying that's true of this poor sap, but I think some people are essentially anti-social, and I do NOT mean Wall Street employees. I mean people who are just dangerous to society.
this is a tragedy without a hero. the victim not in his right mind so unable to witness his downfall. the family likely raked by their own bad choices of traveling on their own until too late vs. an earlier hospital visit or seeking medical help at the airport. the police not in the least heroic and unable and untrained to deal with the mentally ill.
the weekly replaying of this song - with new names and new deaths - is worn and scratchy but shows no sign of stopping.
as a society we fail the mentally ill. we ignore them while claiming they are within their rights to decline treatment and suffer as they are not in eminent danger, we criminalize them when they soil our sidewalks, and we kill them when they cannot follow commands.
the weekly replaying of this song - with new names and new deaths - is worn and scratchy but shows no sign of stopping.
as a society we fail the mentally ill. we ignore them while claiming they are within their rights to decline treatment and suffer as they are not in eminent danger, we criminalize them when they soil our sidewalks, and we kill them when they cannot follow commands.
4
Outrageous! Those police were called to help manage a large man obviously having a mental breakdown. They managed to kill him! This is homicide. Lack of proper training is no excuse. But above all it exhibits the utter cowardice of the police. This victim was outnumbered, what, 4-to-1? Cuffed and stuffed in the back seat, and still they need to electrocute him 15 times? Cowards. Cowards. Absolute cowards. They killed an essentially defenseless man. It makes me literally sick to watch.
13
Police response to violence is often too violent regardless of race. These particular guys need to find another profession. Training recruits in handling of violence and getting rid of bad apples has to be the principal aim of all police departments in the country.
1
As with the BART transit cop who shot Oscar Grant while he was lying on his stomach in handcuffs on an Oakland train platform, the officers responding here seem, both by temperament and in deportment, to be utterly unsuited for the exigencies of police work. Not a minute is spent accessing a situation that, by all appearances, needs de-escalation, not the wild, and poorly executed application of force. Who hire these scared children to be cops?
13
I hope we can put to rest this nonsense that all you have to do to keep from being harmed, or even killed, by the police is "do not resist". Time and again we see videos of people trying not to resist but being pummeled, sat on, tased, and shouted at: "stop resisting, stop resisting!" Then the police report comes in "subject resisted arrest." Prior to videos, the police word always prevailed. We need better training of cops and better enforcement of laws to protect civilians against abusive treatment by police.
8
a fatal case of ignorance on all sides. the victim should have never ingested the drug, the sheriffs should not have tased him --unless he was a physical threat--and the EMT staff should have had the training to recognize what was unfolding.
No. Because not all parties are equally to blame.
Per their jobs, the cops are supposed to know what they are doing when they taze any citizen over and over and over and over. I feel like I am stating the obvious.
Per their jobs, the cops are supposed to know what they are doing when they taze any citizen over and over and over and over. I feel like I am stating the obvious.
1
Not a fine display. One of the officers is at a panic or near-panic. If you're TASING a guy and SITTING on him and SCREAMING at him how do you expect him to calm down? One officer, to his credit, told him in a calm voice, "He buddy, calm down." I wonder how these officers would have behaved if it were someone they knew and wanted to save...
7
" I wonder how these officers would have behaved if it were someone they knew and wanted to save..."
That is an very smart and humane question to ask! Was this tragic outcome necessary? It's hard to see how any honest person could assert that it was.
That is an very smart and humane question to ask! Was this tragic outcome necessary? It's hard to see how any honest person could assert that it was.
Well, there was the incident of the off duty cop shooting his estranged wife through her car window while his cop buddies held back allowing him to administer the final shot which killed her.
I'm not an apologist for the police. There have been many, many cases of police acting well beyond the scope of reason over the past several years. This is not one of those instances.
If you do not comply with an arrest, force will be used against you. Simply not having the mental capacity to comply with those instructions does not mean the person under arrest can be allowed freedom of action, to grab a taser, a gun. We currently do not have a 100% safe means to subdue someone, yet some people still need to be subdued.
Consider yourself as the police officer in that case. If you were honest, truly honest, what would you have done differently that would have improved the outcome? Not subdued the man? Not used a taser? Tried to use reason? In all cases, the man would likely have hurt himself or others. Even a man in handcuffs can pull a trigger.
We have so many instances of police brutality and murder by cop in this country to stop. This man's death is a tragedy, not a murder. When commenters cry murder for a case like this, it minimizes the true atrocity of so many other cases and our collective strength to change it.
If you do not comply with an arrest, force will be used against you. Simply not having the mental capacity to comply with those instructions does not mean the person under arrest can be allowed freedom of action, to grab a taser, a gun. We currently do not have a 100% safe means to subdue someone, yet some people still need to be subdued.
Consider yourself as the police officer in that case. If you were honest, truly honest, what would you have done differently that would have improved the outcome? Not subdued the man? Not used a taser? Tried to use reason? In all cases, the man would likely have hurt himself or others. Even a man in handcuffs can pull a trigger.
We have so many instances of police brutality and murder by cop in this country to stop. This man's death is a tragedy, not a murder. When commenters cry murder for a case like this, it minimizes the true atrocity of so many other cases and our collective strength to change it.
4
Pure torture committed by sadists
2
"Even a man in handcuffs can pull a trigger."
Even when they are sitting on him and still tazing him repeatedly? Oh c'mon.
Even when they are sitting on him and still tazing him repeatedly? Oh c'mon.
4
I'd like to say "unbelievable", but it's only too believable.
Another monument to bad judgement all around: the wrongfully deceased, for poisoning himself with illegal drugs; and the police, for behaving stupidly and atrociously as usual.
I'd like to think the legal system could sort this out in a fair, ethically honest and logical way. But my opinion of it is even lower than my opinion of our wonderful Federal Congress and state legislatures, if such a thing is actually possible.
Another monument to bad judgement all around: the wrongfully deceased, for poisoning himself with illegal drugs; and the police, for behaving stupidly and atrociously as usual.
I'd like to think the legal system could sort this out in a fair, ethically honest and logical way. But my opinion of it is even lower than my opinion of our wonderful Federal Congress and state legislatures, if such a thing is actually possible.
1
Cops nowadays are largely if not mostly ex-military with that mindset. When they're on patrol they're in-country and see the populace as hostiles. Would've made more sense to let this man flail around on the ground till help - i.e.: competent help - could be summoned.
6
Wrong! The cops that are getting in trouble for killing civilians because they don't know how to descalate the situation were not prior military, but some had tried to join the military (or other police forces, see Tamir Rice cop Tim Loehmann--deemed emotionally unstable, and George Zimmerman). They had not been accepted into the military due to their psych exam.
Please cite examples of former military who became cops and killed unarmed civilians.
Please cite examples of former military who became cops and killed unarmed civilians.
The body cameras don't show much of police activities. Only thing we hear is an almost scripted yelling from ONE policeman constantly reminding us of the violent situation - he has my taser, stop fighting, stop kicking etc; I failed to see any of these things captured on body cams. Why the cop was shouting so much.....even when there was no apparent activity? The second loudest sound (other than the yelling cop) was the continuous hum of tasers as the current ripped through the person's helpless body.
It is must be horrible for the parents to witness murder of their child by the forces entrusted to serve and protect!
I am shuddering and in tears simply thinking about how the parent are going to go through their lives.
It is must be horrible for the parents to witness murder of their child by the forces entrusted to serve and protect!
I am shuddering and in tears simply thinking about how the parent are going to go through their lives.
6
Agree completely. In lieu of proper police training, these thugs are taught method acting to cover their stomach-turning crimes.
1
Based on this video, the police do have to try to deal with a lot of incomprehensible belligerence. I tend to be suspicious of power, but I've seen a few of these incident videos in which the person being subdued is absolutely unintelligible. I have never been this drunk/wasted. I have never been with anybody who has been this drunk/wasted. I attended a top 50 college. I have friends who got wasted, but they were never this unintelligible or belligerent. I've never seen stuff like this.
In none of these incidents is the subdued person communicating with any clarity whatsoever.
In none of these incidents is the subdued person communicating with any clarity whatsoever.
4
It's a good thing we don't usually respond to people speaking unintelligibly by murdering them with a Taser. That would be the end of our Congress and Senate.
All good points. Now ask yourself if screaming commands at this unintelligible person and terrorizing them with electric shocks is likely to make the situation better or worse.
I think the confusion is this, and I may be wrong: In a situation like this, at this stage of it, the police no longer see the combative person as an entity with rights. The person, due to belligerence and incoherence, because a menace, a danger that must be contained. I am not saying that this is right or wrong. That's not objective in this comment. I think that once a combative, incoherent person breaks laws (resisting arrest, using illegal substances) he, in the eyes of the police, has forfeit his human rights.
I do NOT think the police care about an incoherent, belligerent person who endangers other people. This person is not some kitty stuck in a tree or a little girl who is lost at the mall. This person might as well be werewolf or something. He has broken multiple laws and poses a threat to people who have no broken any laws.
I think the police do not feel it's their job to improve society. Their job (perhaps) is to protect the law-abiding from the non-law-abiding.
I do NOT think the police care about an incoherent, belligerent person who endangers other people. This person is not some kitty stuck in a tree or a little girl who is lost at the mall. This person might as well be werewolf or something. He has broken multiple laws and poses a threat to people who have no broken any laws.
I think the police do not feel it's their job to improve society. Their job (perhaps) is to protect the law-abiding from the non-law-abiding.
What a tragic story of how the incompetent handling of a call for help resulted in an unnecessary death.
Incompetence happens in all jobs, not just in the police force.
The issue that everyone is so upset about is not the fact that it happens, but the fact that almost every time there is no accountability.
Incompetence happens in all jobs, not just in the police force.
The issue that everyone is so upset about is not the fact that it happens, but the fact that almost every time there is no accountability.
6
I never understood the justification that if a mentally ill or deranged person does not follow police orders then they deserve to die. They are unable to follow police orders because they lack the mental faculties to do so. So again, why do they deserve to be killed and why is this justified in this country? Police in other western countries appear to have a figured out how to handle mentally ill citizens, and we have not.
15
The police are more dangerous than the criminals. Beware of these uniformed thugs. This is well documented in the winning film at the Tribeca Film Festival, Do Not Resist. It was written up in a recent New Yorker magazine article.
5
Many of the people commenting here do not seem to appreciate that there is a drive-stun mode for the Tasers. When applied directly and repeatedly, as they are doing here, they are not capable of neuromuscular incapacitation. Rather, they are a pain compliance technique, which may be ineffective in a combative, psychotic or drug-impaired person. It is more likely to lead to increased agitation and combativeness. Ultimately, when repeatedly used, it can kill them, as it did here. This is an example of personnel untrained to deal with psychotic or drug-impaired patients. The analogy of repeatedly beating a frightened dog viciously to try to calm it down is not wholly inappropriate.
7
I realize not all situations like this are the same, but the better solution to this one is pretty obvious. Here's what you do: Get everyone out of the car except the man who's having the drug-induced breakdown; close the doors; calmly come up with a plan that smartly utilized all the man-power around the car, i.e.:
"Hmmm, he seems to be struggling a lot. How do we get him out of the car and calm him down so nobody gets hurt?"
"Well, I think I should call an ambulance first. Medical professionals might be better equipped to handle this."
"Good idea. You do that. Meanwhile, I've had some experience talking with my crazy aunt when she gets all riled up when she stops taking her meds. Maybe I can calm this guy down. But let's see, maybe I'll talk with him through the window first and see how he's doing in there. Maybe we can just keep him in the car until medical help gets here."
Of course there is no guarantee that this scenario would have come to a happy ending for everyone, but it certainly seems like a more logical approach. Unfortunately, I don't think police are taught much about logical approaches. They are taught how to react with force.
"Hmmm, he seems to be struggling a lot. How do we get him out of the car and calm him down so nobody gets hurt?"
"Well, I think I should call an ambulance first. Medical professionals might be better equipped to handle this."
"Good idea. You do that. Meanwhile, I've had some experience talking with my crazy aunt when she gets all riled up when she stops taking her meds. Maybe I can calm this guy down. But let's see, maybe I'll talk with him through the window first and see how he's doing in there. Maybe we can just keep him in the car until medical help gets here."
Of course there is no guarantee that this scenario would have come to a happy ending for everyone, but it certainly seems like a more logical approach. Unfortunately, I don't think police are taught much about logical approaches. They are taught how to react with force.
12
At least these officers tried to revive the suspect after they realized what they'd done.
Not as much can be said for Tamir Rice, where after being shot at point blank range, the officers just let him bleed out and die even after they realized the "gun" he was holding was only a toy.
Not as much can be said for Tamir Rice, where after being shot at point blank range, the officers just let him bleed out and die even after they realized the "gun" he was holding was only a toy.
4
This just goes on and on,,,All police need to be trained to effectively handle Chemically impaired and Mentally ill people who they encounter everyday on the job as do health care workers….>>>REALLY,,,fire them all up to the Chief and Mayor wiht a good lawsuit,,,it will not bring back this young man and all the others however,,,,,maybe we will get professional Police officers,,,who are able to handle their stress and not themselves act irrationally and lethally,,,,,,,,God Bless All………...
1
I would like to know what percentage of the police involved in these fatal episodes had previous military experience, and what percentage of the overall constabulary force in the United States is ex-military.
9
i think that is one of problems with cops in our country. For ex-military personnel, their prior training that required them to quickly neutralize any possible danger around them without any consequences is difficult to change. Especially if their instructors at police academies are often ex-military staff .
6
I don't understand your point. Please explain?
Dear Jim: I've heard a lot of people speculate that prior military training contributes to more aggressive responses by police. The subject was aired by Seth Stoughton in The Atlantic in 2014 (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-..., and I think, at this point, it would help to contextualize this question with hard numbers.
In the video, one of the police officers shrieked incessantly in confrontational, profane, terms. If ever there was anything guaranteed to escalate the combativeness of the frightened, drug-addled prisoner, this was it. The other officer was speaking in calm, reasonable, tones. Some people are suited for police work and others are very clearly not.
26
Police work is dangerous, frustrating, and mentally trying -- not for everyone. These two officers should look for other kinds of employment, for our sske as well as theirs. That sure looked like incompetent police work.
10
This man was clearly mentally altered, likely from substance abuse but possibly from any number of other metabolic issues. To be treated as "combative" is like blaming a diabetic for being hypoglycemic and out of control. This is a complete failure of the police to intelligently manage the situation.
4
If you electrify someone 15 times in 5 minutes, you have a very good chance of altering the electrical activity of his/her heart. There used to be rules that you shouldn't electrify someone while cuffed as well. When someone is having a heart attack they have an "impending sense of doom". That is evident when the citizen stated he is dying after these cops electrify him for the 15th time. What a disgrace. The cop was only worried about losing his job immediately after killing the citizen.
3
Imagine your the lone emergency service provider responding to that call. It's a very busy roadway...if this out of control individual bolts from the car into on coming traffic and there are tragic consequences, it will fall on you. Or, if your armed and this person gets there hands on your weapon, then what.
Not only did the officer have to subdue this person, they had to try and control him. He was clearly a risk to himself and OTHERS.
I can easily overlook the use of profanity or inappropriate remarks. What would you language be like if you had to control that scene?
Tonight that same set of circumstances will repeat itself many times over across the country and you wont hear about it because of the hundreds of emergency responders who handle this thankless task proficiently.
My condolences to the family, I'm very sorry for your loss.
But there is no crime here, just a tragic set of circumstance.
There's a lot of reference to additional training for the officers and that's always a good thing.
But I would ask the reasonable person to consider their expectations. Should I put my life or the life of others at risk for the sake of your adult, psychotic, out of control family member? I'm sorry but it's just not gonna go that way.
Not only did the officer have to subdue this person, they had to try and control him. He was clearly a risk to himself and OTHERS.
I can easily overlook the use of profanity or inappropriate remarks. What would you language be like if you had to control that scene?
Tonight that same set of circumstances will repeat itself many times over across the country and you wont hear about it because of the hundreds of emergency responders who handle this thankless task proficiently.
My condolences to the family, I'm very sorry for your loss.
But there is no crime here, just a tragic set of circumstance.
There's a lot of reference to additional training for the officers and that's always a good thing.
But I would ask the reasonable person to consider their expectations. Should I put my life or the life of others at risk for the sake of your adult, psychotic, out of control family member? I'm sorry but it's just not gonna go that way.
1
Let's say, hypothetically, that a person develops a brain tumor that causes them to have hallucinations once it reaches a certain size. They have taken no drugs, but they are suddenly acting erratically. No one knows this for sure, because we are not all wearing I'm-drug-influenced indicators on our chests.
So this erratically behaving individual scares someone, who then called the police, not knowing that this person is ill. Suppose that person is you. Are you going to tell me you're just ok with having police kill you because the effort it would take to control you is more than they have been trained to handle?
Yes, I think they should be putting their lives at risk to save or control myself or my family member, because, well, isn't that their job, to protect us? Or do people who are acting erratically not count, or have no right to remain living once they begin acting out of character? In that case, then why don't we just let cops go in guns blazing against every individual who is, in their opinion or the opinion of the person who contacted them, acting in a threatening manner?
I'm sorry, but I just don't see why it has to go that way, other than poor training, poor judgment, and lack of respect for life. It's time for the us versus them mentality that is rampant in law enforcement to stop.
So this erratically behaving individual scares someone, who then called the police, not knowing that this person is ill. Suppose that person is you. Are you going to tell me you're just ok with having police kill you because the effort it would take to control you is more than they have been trained to handle?
Yes, I think they should be putting their lives at risk to save or control myself or my family member, because, well, isn't that their job, to protect us? Or do people who are acting erratically not count, or have no right to remain living once they begin acting out of character? In that case, then why don't we just let cops go in guns blazing against every individual who is, in their opinion or the opinion of the person who contacted them, acting in a threatening manner?
I'm sorry, but I just don't see why it has to go that way, other than poor training, poor judgment, and lack of respect for life. It's time for the us versus them mentality that is rampant in law enforcement to stop.
Looks like they murdered him.
They should just back off in situations like this and let the entire episode cool down. He was contained in a car. and not a danger to anyone else. Just take the key out of the ignition and close the doors until things calm down.
They should just back off in situations like this and let the entire episode cool down. He was contained in a car. and not a danger to anyone else. Just take the key out of the ignition and close the doors until things calm down.
6
The thing that always perplexes me is that these "officers" seem to have no trouble with what happened.
They murder this person, then continue on working like nothing happened. Where is their empathy or shame for what happened? Where is their grief?
I don't know how I would even live with myself if I accidentally stopped someone's heart, and I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to let me keep my job (nor would I want them to).
They murder this person, then continue on working like nothing happened. Where is their empathy or shame for what happened? Where is their grief?
I don't know how I would even live with myself if I accidentally stopped someone's heart, and I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to let me keep my job (nor would I want them to).
1
I would not want a job in law enforcement. I don't think the public gets that these people start their jobs every day knowing they are putting their lives at risk. I didn't see anything in this video suggesting the officers did anything wrong. The suspect continued to fight them throughout, the tasers were not subduing the suspect - and the suspect did the one thing that will scare an officer the most - he grabbed for their weapon.
The officers were clearly concerned when they realized the suspect had stopped breathing, and given the undue scrutiny on law enforcement, were rightfully concerned for their jobs. They shouldn't be put in that position with a suspect this dangerous.
We have to figure out a way to control abusive behavior by any law enforcement officer. But I believe in the vast majority of cases, these are decent and moral people trying to do extremely difficult jobs.
Before we paint all police with the same ugly brush, we should stop and think about the jobs they have to do. They are protecting the public, and they certainly have a right to protect themselves as well.
Police officer lives matter as well. Walk a mile in their shoes before passing judgement.
The officers were clearly concerned when they realized the suspect had stopped breathing, and given the undue scrutiny on law enforcement, were rightfully concerned for their jobs. They shouldn't be put in that position with a suspect this dangerous.
We have to figure out a way to control abusive behavior by any law enforcement officer. But I believe in the vast majority of cases, these are decent and moral people trying to do extremely difficult jobs.
Before we paint all police with the same ugly brush, we should stop and think about the jobs they have to do. They are protecting the public, and they certainly have a right to protect themselves as well.
Police officer lives matter as well. Walk a mile in their shoes before passing judgement.
1
What a horrific death. One set of rules for you and I. No rules for moronic cops. Is that the country we want.
Until we vote in lawmakers and city council members and mayors that want to change things, nothing will change.
The police murder citizens with impunity. It is sickening.
Until we vote in lawmakers and city council members and mayors that want to change things, nothing will change.
The police murder citizens with impunity. It is sickening.
2
Family calls for help because man is having drug induced psychotic episode. Police kill same man while handcuffed with tasers. This is gross incompetence and shows a complete lack of training. If this same man was choking on something and stumbling towards these officers for help they probably would have shot him.
15
Congratulations on killing a man for not getting out of his car. Way to escalate the situation instead of diffusing. Wow.
8
Why didn't the family diffuse the situation instead of calling the police?
Unfortunately few police have any training in dealing with citizens on drugs or experiencing paranoid delusions.
As a result, the police fall back on their standard procedure of compelling obedience, through beatings or through the torture of electrical shocks. When those wrong methods predictably do not work, the police standard procedure is to escalate the beating or electrical torture.
Many of the cases of excessive force by police, leading to deaths, have resulted from their lack of training in dealing with irrational citizens.
As a result, the police fall back on their standard procedure of compelling obedience, through beatings or through the torture of electrical shocks. When those wrong methods predictably do not work, the police standard procedure is to escalate the beating or electrical torture.
Many of the cases of excessive force by police, leading to deaths, have resulted from their lack of training in dealing with irrational citizens.
4
Let's get something clear. Police Officers do not, do not, put their lives "on the line" everyday. We are not living in Fallujah. Yet, police department's believe we are living in Fallujah and have become heavily militarized with the war footing mentality to go with the armament. The work of most uniformed cops is ordinary and routine, dull. Cops have high rates of alcoholism, depression, suicide, domestic abuse, divorce. Give them guns and tasers and put them in unusual circumstances, especially a gang of them, and civilian beatings and or deaths often occur.
17
As an ER RN, having seen other sane people fall off the edge after using "synthetic marijuana" I hope this tragedy prevents others from using these dangrous drugs.
My condolences to the family and everyone involved in this sad story.
My condolences to the family and everyone involved in this sad story.
8
Cut and dry self defense. When will perps learn it never pays to drive when you are on drugs and then resist resist a lawful arrest. Most cops would who drawn their fire arms and shot this guy. Kudos to them for exercising self restraint. He is dead but it is clearly because of the drugs in his system and his violent behavior. He will no longer pose a danger to the good citizens of Georgia by threatening them with his unlawful driving.
4
Did you even read the article? He wasn't driving. He was a passenger. It wasn't a lawful arrest. His parents called for medical assistance. He doesn't live in Georgia. They family was driving through. Jeez...
4
Self restraint. What a foolish comment.
1
Wow. Did you even read the article?
2
The cops did their best. I don't blame them if their training didn't take account of how to subdue someone like this without causing mortal injury. There was obviously no intent to harm. Maybe they should be fitted with tranquilizers instead of tasers. But no, I'm not blaming the cops for doing the best they could in a horrible situation.
3
“For four minutes and 10 seconds after he said ‘I quit,’ they still tased him and kept him on the ground,” he added. “That’s torture, and they killed him.”
This is called murder where most of us come from.
The larger point is that this sociaty has to aknowledge it has a police problem.
Any citizen could potentially be killed by police because of the fact that people who want to be police are not only ill suited to the jobs requirements and responsibilities but often have personallity disorders that should absolutley prevent them from being accepted.
This is called murder where most of us come from.
The larger point is that this sociaty has to aknowledge it has a police problem.
Any citizen could potentially be killed by police because of the fact that people who want to be police are not only ill suited to the jobs requirements and responsibilities but often have personallity disorders that should absolutley prevent them from being accepted.
9
Dear CBJ,
Actually it's not called murder. He said "I quit" alright, and even "I'm dead" (not too believably at the time), but he didn't quit. They didn't torture him, they were trying to subdue him with a taser, and it wasn't working. Murder requires intent, and that wasn't present.
So, what do you think the solution might be for our police problem? Can we hire only Ph.D.'s in psychology or something?
Actually it's not called murder. He said "I quit" alright, and even "I'm dead" (not too believably at the time), but he didn't quit. They didn't torture him, they were trying to subdue him with a taser, and it wasn't working. Murder requires intent, and that wasn't present.
So, what do you think the solution might be for our police problem? Can we hire only Ph.D.'s in psychology or something?
2
Taser guns simply need to be outlawed.
In theory, tasers seem like they would be a good tool to have available. But years of experience have proven law enforcement simply cannot use them responsibly.
In theory, tasers seem like they would be a good tool to have available. But years of experience have proven law enforcement simply cannot use them responsibly.
2
This seems pretty mishandled. I weighed 135lbs (back in the day) and could restrain a 160lb teenage boy at a juvenile program because we didn't use tasers or anything like that. Seems like with two men, they could have restrained him (kept him safe) until medical back up arrived. Do they not teach proper restraining techniques anymore?
4
I keep thinking the same thing when I read about these cases. I, too, received training when I worked at residence for "troubled" teens on how to take a person down so as to do no harm. I also used that training several times to great effect: no one was hurt, the situation was diffused. But police learn how to shoot guns and tasers. Imagine how many kids would be dead/hurt if they gave the staff at these residences tasers? But that kind of force is really not necessary.
2
What is problematic is the unwritten standard that emergency teams can handle every conceivable situation, no matter how nuanced, and that they can solve a conundrum in the split second that they are afforded to think.
Give them a gordian knot, and they will untie it. Blindfolded, underwater, with or without the tools on their duty belt. And if they fail, it is because they did something wrong. Man, I am glad I am not a cop.
Give them a gordian knot, and they will untie it. Blindfolded, underwater, with or without the tools on their duty belt. And if they fail, it is because they did something wrong. Man, I am glad I am not a cop.
2
"I was afraid for my life' will be the plea and will work for these two inadept police folks.
1
Again, if this person appeared dazed, the police should have called for an ambulance to sedate him and strap him down.
1
If a study of individuals who have been subjected to electronic "taser" shocks by police were done, it would show that most of those incapacitated, injured or killed are mentally ill and/or chemically addicted. Of course, electronic means of incapacitation are designed to protect both the first responders and the individuals acting out. A brief period of physical incapacitation should be used to apply other methods of safely restraining an individual. Additional shocks to effect another brief period of incapacitation are useless.
In hospitals, mental health facilities, emergency departments and other institutions where individuals act out in the same ways, there are no "Tasers" for use by the staff- these folks must be and are handled safely and with limited risk to those restraining them. Law enforcement training in the safe handling of mentally ill folks has now become focused on the use of electronic incapacitation- with few or no alternatives except the use of deadly force. The more Tasers- the less other alternatives are utilized.
Electric shocks are not harmless, especially to someone with a mental illness. In fact, the use of electronic shocks to render a person incapacitated often results in exactly the opposite reaction: agitation and increased violence. If taser shocks are not working- stop using the taser and find a sheet, blanket or a net to subdue the individual, just like it's done in in the hospital. No need for death or serious injury to anyone.
In hospitals, mental health facilities, emergency departments and other institutions where individuals act out in the same ways, there are no "Tasers" for use by the staff- these folks must be and are handled safely and with limited risk to those restraining them. Law enforcement training in the safe handling of mentally ill folks has now become focused on the use of electronic incapacitation- with few or no alternatives except the use of deadly force. The more Tasers- the less other alternatives are utilized.
Electric shocks are not harmless, especially to someone with a mental illness. In fact, the use of electronic shocks to render a person incapacitated often results in exactly the opposite reaction: agitation and increased violence. If taser shocks are not working- stop using the taser and find a sheet, blanket or a net to subdue the individual, just like it's done in in the hospital. No need for death or serious injury to anyone.
3
What I find the most distressing is that within seconds of killing someone the "police" are worried about losing their jobs and trying to build an argument in support of their actions.
1
Can muscle fibers "relax" when it's being stimulated by a potentially fatal electric current? When a condemned prisoner is electrocuted in an electric chair, does his body relax? Sherman was handcuffed, in a prone position, and the police were too close to him when administering the shock, thus experiencing involuntary muscle contractions from the victim every time he was "Tasered."
3
It is clearly time to force police recruits to have mental health screenings before they are accepted for training. Period.
1
A black man in South Boston, Virginia, died almost two years ago under the same situation--he had been taking some drugs and he called for medical attention. The police handcuffed him because he was acting strangely. Bottom line is that he was tased lots of times by the police and he died. The Commonwealth Attorney for that area took two years to investigate and come to the conclusion that the tasing had nothing to do with his death. Naturally, the family has filed a civil suit against the police and that town. I think the verdict was that he died as a result of taking the drugs. He was not an older man and did not have an obvious medical problems before all the tasing took place.
1
Last summer Martin O'Malley was booed at the Netroots Nation conference for declaring that "All Lives Matter."
But the Sherman tragedy illustrates a way in which O'Malley may have had it right: Police denigration and mistreatment of African-American citizens leads right to the the denigration and mistreatment of all citizens.
Thus, to say "Black lives matter," is really to say "Black lives matter, TOO-- and ALL lives matter."
That is one reason I support the Black Lives Matter movement as a white person: The disregard of the rights of African-American citizens diminishes the protections and value of my own citizenship.
But the Sherman tragedy illustrates a way in which O'Malley may have had it right: Police denigration and mistreatment of African-American citizens leads right to the the denigration and mistreatment of all citizens.
Thus, to say "Black lives matter," is really to say "Black lives matter, TOO-- and ALL lives matter."
That is one reason I support the Black Lives Matter movement as a white person: The disregard of the rights of African-American citizens diminishes the protections and value of my own citizenship.
2
This is a society where there is no longer a community. Citizens are stressed, police are stressed, there are too many guns, and it is all sensationalized in the news.
The United States is arming its police against its citizens. And its citizens are turning to Trump to solve the problem.
Oh vey. How do you go back to a civilized community? Where we take care of each other?
Nobody seems to agree on that.
The United States is arming its police against its citizens. And its citizens are turning to Trump to solve the problem.
Oh vey. How do you go back to a civilized community? Where we take care of each other?
Nobody seems to agree on that.
2
Once again, the lessons to be learned couldn't be more clear.
1) Don't do recreational drugs
2) Don't fight cops
3) Especially don't make a cop feel as though you're endangering his life, and the lives of his colleagues by trying to take his weapons (he/she was hired to carry them, and use them against jackwagons like you).
Cops want to make it home to their spouses, and children at the end of the day. Sadly, too many don't because of miscreants like Chase Sherman.
1) Don't do recreational drugs
2) Don't fight cops
3) Especially don't make a cop feel as though you're endangering his life, and the lives of his colleagues by trying to take his weapons (he/she was hired to carry them, and use them against jackwagons like you).
Cops want to make it home to their spouses, and children at the end of the day. Sadly, too many don't because of miscreants like Chase Sherman.
6
Even if one is not fighting the arrest, the cops can make it "sound" as if there is resistance to policing procedure and then they are free to do what ever they please.
There is no winning with cops, except video recording the encounters.
There is no winning with cops, except video recording the encounters.
1
This is so tragic that I am not even willing to watch the video. I wept when I came across the article. I weep for the family and loved ones of this latest murder victim at the hand of the police.
I want these police who commit murder to go to trial and then to jail for a very long time. This has to stop and there is no excuse for an ignorant cop who kills defenseless people.
I want these police who commit murder to go to trial and then to jail for a very long time. This has to stop and there is no excuse for an ignorant cop who kills defenseless people.
4
Maybe you *should* watch the video before leaping to your conclusion. All I can say is that there were many other ways it should have been handled, but the tragic outcome is easy to see developing once the first mistake is made and a very rapid escalation of violence occurs.
Extremely tragic.
This shows the true implications of mental illness/substance abuse.
It also shows how law enforcement and other first responders such as EMS are on the front lines of mental health, even though that is far from their stated mission.
I am not in any way associated with law enforcement (far from it).
but for all the arm chair quarterbacks who would have handled this differently:
1. it is not a negotiation or discussion with a police officer.
2. if one grabs an officers taser or weapon...I think all bets are off...that is highly aggressive and threatening...sane mind or not.
3. I see no motive for the officer to maliciously harm the individual...it is not as if he sucker punched the officer then the officer ran up to him and said "I am getting even"
4. the officers told him to stop many many time...of course the times reports how many times he was tased but does not report how many times they said stop and he did not or was unable.
5. the officers clearly wanted help
6. the family called the police...they were scared...
the video is meant to titilate
the text is meant to promote NYTs agenda
a thoughtful article could have written about tragedy, mental health, better police training, etc
but it was not...
it is an agenda...
it is tiring...yes police misconduct is terrible; income disparity is terrible; the play "Hamilton" seems to be the the wealthy liberals darling (I have never seen so many articles about a play...)...
a little thought please
This shows the true implications of mental illness/substance abuse.
It also shows how law enforcement and other first responders such as EMS are on the front lines of mental health, even though that is far from their stated mission.
I am not in any way associated with law enforcement (far from it).
but for all the arm chair quarterbacks who would have handled this differently:
1. it is not a negotiation or discussion with a police officer.
2. if one grabs an officers taser or weapon...I think all bets are off...that is highly aggressive and threatening...sane mind or not.
3. I see no motive for the officer to maliciously harm the individual...it is not as if he sucker punched the officer then the officer ran up to him and said "I am getting even"
4. the officers told him to stop many many time...of course the times reports how many times he was tased but does not report how many times they said stop and he did not or was unable.
5. the officers clearly wanted help
6. the family called the police...they were scared...
the video is meant to titilate
the text is meant to promote NYTs agenda
a thoughtful article could have written about tragedy, mental health, better police training, etc
but it was not...
it is an agenda...
it is tiring...yes police misconduct is terrible; income disparity is terrible; the play "Hamilton" seems to be the the wealthy liberals darling (I have never seen so many articles about a play...)...
a little thought please
3
The cameras do not record important visuals 1) Taser is with the "man", 2) He is kicking and fighting. All I hear is cop shouting and a continuous buzz of tasers.
Just because the cop starts shouting - he has my taser....does not mean he has it. It could be scripted for the cops. I am sure it will be used by the cops as a get out of jail card.
Just because the cop starts shouting - he has my taser....does not mean he has it. It could be scripted for the cops. I am sure it will be used by the cops as a get out of jail card.
Why did the sheriff's officers (law enforcement) respond to a request for medical assistance? Honestly, I don't know what to make of the totally chaotic scene as shown in the video, other than a very fast ramp-up to violence. The family clearly had their hands full with this person and knew he was a danger at least to himself, and possibly others (what if his breakdown had occurred on the plane?). I'm very sorry for the family, and I hate to say it, but I was relieved that there were no racial overtones. That does not mean that the whole thing is not appalling.
1
While this is probably at least actionable Manslaughter there are a couple of things that need to be made plain:
1.) The cops actions were so out of keeping with either common sense or decency, that they should be immediately fired for cause.
2.) No matter how bad their training, I am sure they knew you can kill a person with a taser. This is especially true when they have certain heart and other medial conditions. In this case, the cops had a medical problem that was apparent as they called for medical help. Their actions were those of at least Manslaughter if not reckless Murder and should be treated as such.
3.) Is it time to consider removing the taser from the police arsenal? Should we at least study whether its use is ultimately counter-productive? Has anybody done this? If not, why?
1.) The cops actions were so out of keeping with either common sense or decency, that they should be immediately fired for cause.
2.) No matter how bad their training, I am sure they knew you can kill a person with a taser. This is especially true when they have certain heart and other medial conditions. In this case, the cops had a medical problem that was apparent as they called for medical help. Their actions were those of at least Manslaughter if not reckless Murder and should be treated as such.
3.) Is it time to consider removing the taser from the police arsenal? Should we at least study whether its use is ultimately counter-productive? Has anybody done this? If not, why?
7
Your full of questions but no answers. You should think about that.
1
It's hard for me to sympathize with the guy. He willfully took something that is known to be extremely dangerous. He was violent, psychotic, and let's not forget he did this to himself willfully. I understand the need to show caution for medical emergencies, but taking drugs that makes you a threat to everyone's lives isn't really the same as having a seizure or autism.
2
The victim did not take the drugs with *intent* to become violent and attack people. Your comment infers that, which is bizarre.
1
At night. On an interstate highway. Dealing with a large man behaving erratically. Who could cause serious injury to himself OR OTHERS if he got out of the car and started running around ON THE INTERSTATE HIGHWAY. Who could not be brought under control despite being handcuffed and tasered. Who was going after, and had briefly gotten, an officer's weapon.
I watched the video. The outcome was tragic, but I do not think the police did anything wrong.
I watched the video. The outcome was tragic, but I do not think the police did anything wrong.
7
Really sad. But what can you do with someone who is that strung out? I mean, if they get him out of the vehicle and he goes nuts in traffic, potentially a motorist could run over him or swerve resulting in an auto accident. As any mother of an uncooperative toddler knows, someone who doesn't want to be physically controlled can be impossible to handle. Here we have a grown man.
Again, this is a very sad outcome. A situation such as this - real world, real time - may be far more nuanced than suggested by the article, however.
I was unaware of the potential lethality of Tasers. Is it possible the application of the Taser in combination with the drugs in the young man's system contributed to his death? Certainly, Taser technology should be studied. Is this a common outcome with the use of this type of weapon? (My son was maced once, years ago at a concert. Long story. He ended up in the hospital emergency room to have his eyes flushed. I remember it occurring to me at the time, had he been asthmatic or otherwise sensitive, mace could have proved fatal.) I suppose almost any weapon or constraining technique, under certain circumstances, could result in death.
Again, this is a very sad outcome. A situation such as this - real world, real time - may be far more nuanced than suggested by the article, however.
I was unaware of the potential lethality of Tasers. Is it possible the application of the Taser in combination with the drugs in the young man's system contributed to his death? Certainly, Taser technology should be studied. Is this a common outcome with the use of this type of weapon? (My son was maced once, years ago at a concert. Long story. He ended up in the hospital emergency room to have his eyes flushed. I remember it occurring to me at the time, had he been asthmatic or otherwise sensitive, mace could have proved fatal.) I suppose almost any weapon or constraining technique, under certain circumstances, could result in death.
2
If he runs into traffic that's on him. The police should have non death threatening options. One officer should have sat in the back of the car and another should have driven that car to a hospital. Full stop.
One of the most striking differences I noticed upon moving to England (from America) is the attitude of the police officers. They are unarmed and extremely polite and their body language is totally non-threatening. It seems they view themselves more as community helpers than confrontational aggressors. In America the body language and demeanour of the police always seems to convey strength and suspicion and confrontation.
I think American police departments need a complete bottom up overhaul of their culture. Helpers instead of Aggressors. Community Guardians instead of Urban Cowboys. Start recruiting more counsellor/social worker/protector personalities and fewer fighter/dominant/high testosterone types
I think American police departments need a complete bottom up overhaul of their culture. Helpers instead of Aggressors. Community Guardians instead of Urban Cowboys. Start recruiting more counsellor/social worker/protector personalities and fewer fighter/dominant/high testosterone types
66
Well said. There is a severe breakdown in police recruitment and training.
These incidents seem to happen weekly in this country. It is another indication that our civil society is breaking down, that one considers whether it's a good idea to call the police, or not. Someone I know was recently arrested in a domestic violence situation. He was defending himself against an assault by a mentally ill woman who broke into his house and attacked him, biting him on his legs and arms. He beat her off with his fists, pinned her to the ground, and called 911. The police arrive and arrest HIM. Now he's defending himself at tremendous expense against felony charges. His take: "Every time I call the cops, I get arrested. I'm not calling the cops again."
4
Use tasers in question to shock offending officers same amount of times they brutalized this person.
4
Officers, who cannot control a handcuffed person, have not been properly or adequately trained.
12
Ever since the Reagan administration closed mental-health facilities and dumped the mentally ill into the streets, thousands upon thousands of unmedicated would-be patients have found themselves at the mercy of police officers.
These mentally ill individuals may become delusional or out of control, but law enforcement is ill prepared provide officer training to deal with them. They are not violent criminals. Undue body pressure, choking, body slams, high-voltage tasers, and even bullets are frequently used by officers to handle a mentally ill person. Increasingly, in any confrontation between law enforcement officers and the mentally ill, the officers quickly resort to deadly violent force against the mentally ill, sick individuals who cannot understand directions or their own consequences.
Now we regularly see the mentally ill brutalized or tased to death--sometimes shot dead. Officers then plead that the mentally ill person was "out of control." Those sworn to serve and protect citizens, our "peace officers, now walk away from such aggravated deaths with total impunity. These officers will never be charged, nor never serve a day in jail or prison. Yet, here, as elsewhere, they took the life of a young man suffering terrible from a mental disorder instead of ensuring that he received proper treatment. It's just so much easier to pummel, brutalize, tase, and kill. Heaven help those mentally who fall into the clutches of law enforcement.
These mentally ill individuals may become delusional or out of control, but law enforcement is ill prepared provide officer training to deal with them. They are not violent criminals. Undue body pressure, choking, body slams, high-voltage tasers, and even bullets are frequently used by officers to handle a mentally ill person. Increasingly, in any confrontation between law enforcement officers and the mentally ill, the officers quickly resort to deadly violent force against the mentally ill, sick individuals who cannot understand directions or their own consequences.
Now we regularly see the mentally ill brutalized or tased to death--sometimes shot dead. Officers then plead that the mentally ill person was "out of control." Those sworn to serve and protect citizens, our "peace officers, now walk away from such aggravated deaths with total impunity. These officers will never be charged, nor never serve a day in jail or prison. Yet, here, as elsewhere, they took the life of a young man suffering terrible from a mental disorder instead of ensuring that he received proper treatment. It's just so much easier to pummel, brutalize, tase, and kill. Heaven help those mentally who fall into the clutches of law enforcement.
4
Most of us were raised to call the police if we see a situation that's out of hand. And most experienced cops understand how to defuse a bad one but the disparity in training and acceptable policing standards in this country is enormous and, as we see, life-threatening to civilians.
This sort of "anything goes" policing is, unfortunately, nothing new in places such as Maricopa County in Arizona where self-professed hardliner "Sheriff Joe" was just held in contempt by a federal judge. Yet, in other places, like Boston, it's rarely seen as the police there distinguish themselves by their good training and how well they put it to use.
It really is all about mindset and training - knowing what to do and how to do it in the split seconds you usually have. In this case, the deputies had the time,** but not the mindset** to get the family out of the vehicle immediately, close the car doors and request a medical order - along with with sufficient backup to subdue him without Tasering and requesting a paramedic to administer sedation through injection.
Instead, a man needing medical assistance died through illegal use of force in front of his family. Good training equals safety for all most times; lack of it kills civilians - a terrible shame in all regards.
This sort of "anything goes" policing is, unfortunately, nothing new in places such as Maricopa County in Arizona where self-professed hardliner "Sheriff Joe" was just held in contempt by a federal judge. Yet, in other places, like Boston, it's rarely seen as the police there distinguish themselves by their good training and how well they put it to use.
It really is all about mindset and training - knowing what to do and how to do it in the split seconds you usually have. In this case, the deputies had the time,** but not the mindset** to get the family out of the vehicle immediately, close the car doors and request a medical order - along with with sufficient backup to subdue him without Tasering and requesting a paramedic to administer sedation through injection.
Instead, a man needing medical assistance died through illegal use of force in front of his family. Good training equals safety for all most times; lack of it kills civilians - a terrible shame in all regards.
7
You only hear about the bad side of tasers. We'll never hear or discuss how many tasers are used effectively that have helped diffuse dangerous situations and save officers' (or others') lives.
They may have overused the taser in this circumstance but we don't need to generalize the use of tasers and the behavior of officers everywhere based one one event.
They may have overused the taser in this circumstance but we don't need to generalize the use of tasers and the behavior of officers everywhere based one one event.
2
Another example of poorly trained cops who believe that every interaction is about power and not about defusing a situation.
Whey didn't they simply get the family members out of the car and let him sit in the car until he calmed down? Even if this guy hurt himself while in the car, it's unlikely he would have hurt himself worse than what the cops did to him. They did nothing to try and talk this guy down. If they couldn't handle it, they should have called an ambulance from the start. When the cops lost control of the situation as they quickly did, they panicked. Unfortunately, this happens all too often.
I do believe that tasers are better than guns. But you can't continuously taze someone and expect no ill results. Maybe tasers should have limits built-in as to how many times you can use one within a given time period.
Another poster has it right: don't call the police if you live in a place where you don't know for sure that they've been properly trained. It only makes things worse.
As for the victim, he gets some of the blame as well. Do these ridiculous drugs and bad things are bound to happen whether it's self inflicted or inflicted by someone else. It's simply shocking how many people in this country are addicted. There was an article in the NYT a few days ago about how trucking companies can't find enough employees because they make applicants take drug tests. People have to take responsibility for their own actions.
Whey didn't they simply get the family members out of the car and let him sit in the car until he calmed down? Even if this guy hurt himself while in the car, it's unlikely he would have hurt himself worse than what the cops did to him. They did nothing to try and talk this guy down. If they couldn't handle it, they should have called an ambulance from the start. When the cops lost control of the situation as they quickly did, they panicked. Unfortunately, this happens all too often.
I do believe that tasers are better than guns. But you can't continuously taze someone and expect no ill results. Maybe tasers should have limits built-in as to how many times you can use one within a given time period.
Another poster has it right: don't call the police if you live in a place where you don't know for sure that they've been properly trained. It only makes things worse.
As for the victim, he gets some of the blame as well. Do these ridiculous drugs and bad things are bound to happen whether it's self inflicted or inflicted by someone else. It's simply shocking how many people in this country are addicted. There was an article in the NYT a few days ago about how trucking companies can't find enough employees because they make applicants take drug tests. People have to take responsibility for their own actions.
1
Backseat Cops are the funniest. Always thinking they know better from behind their keyboard. Cops are in a no win situation.
3
That is not true. In the video it looked like they didn't assess the scene. They went in tasers pulled.
It is time to stop blaming all cops for the acts of the tiny few who should not be cops in the first place.
Every single vocation - every single one - has its bad apples.
But not all of them risk their lives as a matter of course. Not all involve the potentiality of saying good-bye to your family on what turns about to be your last day on Earth without your realizing it.
Imagine kids who go off to school each day wondering if they will see their cop parent again because said cop parent might be shot for delivering a summons. Imagine the pregnant wife wondering if her cop husband will be around for baby to grow old or if he will die today at the hands of a wife-beater with a grudge.
Imagine it being your job to run up the stairs of the World Trade Center as it becomes a towering inferno and shouting for everyone else to run downstairs toward safety - and then knowing you will not make it out yourself because you were just doing your job. Only one question remains: Do you jump, or do you burn alive?
The generalizing against all cops is silly, immature, entirely misguided, heartless, and cruel.
Every single vocation - every single one - has its bad apples.
But not all of them risk their lives as a matter of course. Not all involve the potentiality of saying good-bye to your family on what turns about to be your last day on Earth without your realizing it.
Imagine kids who go off to school each day wondering if they will see their cop parent again because said cop parent might be shot for delivering a summons. Imagine the pregnant wife wondering if her cop husband will be around for baby to grow old or if he will die today at the hands of a wife-beater with a grudge.
Imagine it being your job to run up the stairs of the World Trade Center as it becomes a towering inferno and shouting for everyone else to run downstairs toward safety - and then knowing you will not make it out yourself because you were just doing your job. Only one question remains: Do you jump, or do you burn alive?
The generalizing against all cops is silly, immature, entirely misguided, heartless, and cruel.
5
Were the police officers drug tested? Let's face it; police officers suffer from higher than average alcohol and drug abuse, as well as high levels of domestic and other violence.
7
Dear Indie,
You're correct that the police suffer from higher alcohol and drug abuse rates, and domestic violence rates have been climbing. This seems to be related to the amount of stress they're under. But drug testing is common and frequent in police departments, so these officers probably had been tested recently. And none of their actions appear to be caused by intoxication.
You're correct that the police suffer from higher alcohol and drug abuse rates, and domestic violence rates have been climbing. This seems to be related to the amount of stress they're under. But drug testing is common and frequent in police departments, so these officers probably had been tested recently. And none of their actions appear to be caused by intoxication.
Guns more readily available to the population = police must be equivalently armed to respond.
Police more heavily armed = more chances to harm and kill by accident or otherwise.
Police more heavily armed = more chances to harm and kill by accident or otherwise.
4
These officers need to be in prison for manslaughter. Yet they weren't even given a suspension. I'm done the police in this country.
15
As part of police training, can cadets be tasered "numerous times" so that they'll have a better sense of why it hurts and can kill.
9
Here's what the local Sheriff had to say:
"The deputies “have not been accused of anything” by any law enforcement or judicial agency, said Coweta Sheriff Mike Yeager. “They’ve been accused by a family.
“That’s the part that gets me. Does anybody ever give consideration to those officers? Has anybody ever thought what they went through that night? What they’ve been through since that night?” Yeager asked."
So the family who called for help and had their son/fiancee murdered are inconsequential, as is the murdered man himself. The Sheriff has compassion only for the murderers.
That is one scary attitude coming from those who are supposed to "protect and serve" the citizens of this country.
"The deputies “have not been accused of anything” by any law enforcement or judicial agency, said Coweta Sheriff Mike Yeager. “They’ve been accused by a family.
“That’s the part that gets me. Does anybody ever give consideration to those officers? Has anybody ever thought what they went through that night? What they’ve been through since that night?” Yeager asked."
So the family who called for help and had their son/fiancee murdered are inconsequential, as is the murdered man himself. The Sheriff has compassion only for the murderers.
That is one scary attitude coming from those who are supposed to "protect and serve" the citizens of this country.
11
"Stop resisting me." I see and hear this on every one of these videos, with evidence to the contrary. I guess they feel if they say it, it will hold up. And it usually does, alas.
10
Also note, in every such case, the suspects don't stop resisting the police. I've had run-ins with the police myself, and they never had to say, "stop resisting me", nor was I ever harmed.
2
Too much take charge training among the police and too little take responsibility training. Why in hell would someone keep zapping someone unto death? You will obey trumps asking what am I doing
4
Interesting that we haven't heard from either the BLM movement on this, nor the spin-offs, "All Lives Matter", nor "White Lives Matter". It's only a matter of time though.
1
"“I got all the weight of the world on him now,” the medical technician can be heard saying as he pushed down on Mr. Sherman’s body."
This is an EMT??
Also interesting where it indicates that after it was clear Mr. Sherman was no longer breathing and pulled him out of the car, they continued to tase him. This is a classic act by police after they realize they messed up. They try to convince themselves (and those witnessing the event) that the person may still be a threat and/or still alive...this as a way to try and prolong or avoid that inevitable moment when bystanders realize that in fact, the person is dead. This sounds similar to the Eric Garner case in Staten Island, where everyone realized he was already dead, yet they went through the motions of trying to 'resuscitate' him, mainly for show.
This is an EMT??
Also interesting where it indicates that after it was clear Mr. Sherman was no longer breathing and pulled him out of the car, they continued to tase him. This is a classic act by police after they realize they messed up. They try to convince themselves (and those witnessing the event) that the person may still be a threat and/or still alive...this as a way to try and prolong or avoid that inevitable moment when bystanders realize that in fact, the person is dead. This sounds similar to the Eric Garner case in Staten Island, where everyone realized he was already dead, yet they went through the motions of trying to 'resuscitate' him, mainly for show.
2
This is how mentally ill people get treated. The illness is considered a crime. It's just like Rodney King, beaten because he bounced every time they hit him.
1
How do you know he was mentally ill? His family called it a "breakdown" yet they called the police? Why would they have called the police for a "breakdown"?
You don't know he was mentally ill. I don't know that he was dangerous. He "said" he had taken spice two days prior. Are drug addicts known for telling the truth? Neither of us was there.
You don't know he was mentally ill. I don't know that he was dangerous. He "said" he had taken spice two days prior. Are drug addicts known for telling the truth? Neither of us was there.
Whatever "training" the police are receiving, nationwide, is apparently not enough to prepare them for what they are encountering out on the street. Allowing an unprepared street cop to decide who lives or dies because "speaking in a calm and reasonable manner and adopting a non-threatening pose" is not having the desired effect. Many of these officers display a "I'm a cop! Obey me!" curbside manner that has been used on me on a routine traffic stop.
5
This is a terrible situation all around. Perhaps if cannabis wasn't illegal, people wouldn't be consuming dangerous research chemicals branded as "synthetic marijuana." This gentleman may well have had a propensity for mental health issues and probably shouldn't have been taking any recreational drugs, but the minimal risks associated with cannabis are at least fairly well understood.
1
Ok people here are some facts for you. Man was hand cuffed in front because he could not be extracted from vehicle. Man had his hands near officers firearm as well as all those other weapons you want the officer to carry. Man was in back seat of civilian car and which was not secure, possibility of access to weapon or ability to drive off in said car. Entire incident took place at night on the side of a high speed roadway which is very dangerous. If you want officers to make medical evaluations under such dangerous conditions you better pay them a whole lot more and give them time during their work schedule to do all that training. Get a grip.
6
This seems to be one more example of poor training and a militarized police culture that is scared and over-reacts when threatened.
6
Without body cams, it would be impossible to know what really happens during interactions between cops and the rest of us.
It's hard to say whether tasers were improperly used here--obviously if a person is subdued there's no reason to go on tasing. But what if the officers didn't have them and their only other means to subdue him was a billy club or a gun? The outcome might have been more brutal and the public outcry as loud.
It's hard for cops (and for the rest of us watching the clip) to figure out what is wrong with the guy...is it psychiatric? Is it a drug reaction? What drug exactly, since "spice" is a street drug...no way to know what's really in it.
Does he just need to calm down? What is the risk they're facing? No one has any idea what's going on with the guy except that he's resisting violently, hallucinating, babbling incoherently and he's a big strong guy. The appropriate thing would've been to take him to a hospital.
This was just a tragedy.
It's hard to say whether tasers were improperly used here--obviously if a person is subdued there's no reason to go on tasing. But what if the officers didn't have them and their only other means to subdue him was a billy club or a gun? The outcome might have been more brutal and the public outcry as loud.
It's hard for cops (and for the rest of us watching the clip) to figure out what is wrong with the guy...is it psychiatric? Is it a drug reaction? What drug exactly, since "spice" is a street drug...no way to know what's really in it.
Does he just need to calm down? What is the risk they're facing? No one has any idea what's going on with the guy except that he's resisting violently, hallucinating, babbling incoherently and he's a big strong guy. The appropriate thing would've been to take him to a hospital.
This was just a tragedy.
2
Hard to say whether tasers were improperly used here?
No it's not. It's crystal clear they were improperly used.
A police officer who shocks someone 15 times knows or should know they are putting the target’s life at risk. By the time the officer is pulling the trigger on the taser the 5th or 10th time the light bulb should go off in their head that they could kill this person. If the situation doesn’t merit pulling their pistol and shooting someone, they shouldn’t tase them 15 times either.
No it's not. It's crystal clear they were improperly used.
A police officer who shocks someone 15 times knows or should know they are putting the target’s life at risk. By the time the officer is pulling the trigger on the taser the 5th or 10th time the light bulb should go off in their head that they could kill this person. If the situation doesn’t merit pulling their pistol and shooting someone, they shouldn’t tase them 15 times either.
In real life, bad choices often lead to terrible outcomes. This is the primary lesson all good parents need to teach their children. This is reality.
It certainly sounds as though Mr. Sherman may have been struggling with a psychotic break or other acute mental illness for some time, and his family either refused to acknowledge that or was unable to recognize what was going on. He may have been using drugs in an attempt to self-medicate and that may have exacerbated an already-unstable mental state, or to have triggered an acute episode.
they should have brought him to a hospital as soon as they arrived back in the US.
Unfortunately, of course, our mental healthcare system is abysmal. If ER physicians had seen him at a calm moment--rather than having and taking the time to properly evaluate him--he would not have received appropriate care.
Perhaps they should have rented a hotel room for the night instead of trying to drive home.
The police aren't supermen. They are ordinary citizens like the rest of us--some competent at their jobs, some not; some emotionally stable, some not. If you want first-class law enforcement professionals in every community, the public must demand the funding for such a force. It will cost a lot of money. It will require very high standards of recruitment and retainment. It will require paying salaries high enough to attract superior candidates.
But start with families recognizing problems in the first place.
It certainly sounds as though Mr. Sherman may have been struggling with a psychotic break or other acute mental illness for some time, and his family either refused to acknowledge that or was unable to recognize what was going on. He may have been using drugs in an attempt to self-medicate and that may have exacerbated an already-unstable mental state, or to have triggered an acute episode.
they should have brought him to a hospital as soon as they arrived back in the US.
Unfortunately, of course, our mental healthcare system is abysmal. If ER physicians had seen him at a calm moment--rather than having and taking the time to properly evaluate him--he would not have received appropriate care.
Perhaps they should have rented a hotel room for the night instead of trying to drive home.
The police aren't supermen. They are ordinary citizens like the rest of us--some competent at their jobs, some not; some emotionally stable, some not. If you want first-class law enforcement professionals in every community, the public must demand the funding for such a force. It will cost a lot of money. It will require very high standards of recruitment and retainment. It will require paying salaries high enough to attract superior candidates.
But start with families recognizing problems in the first place.
2
The Family called Public Safety for help, that's was the problem they recognized they needed help.
Your basically saying the Cops are second rate and unprofessional due to budget constraints.
A quick review shows the Vermont State police shot a man 8 times including in the back, shot another man over a Rose bush, and last week shot a 76 yr old man claimng tasers and pepperballs don't stop the elderly.
Last year in upstateNY the Troopers chased a man into the woods who was unarmed and Unloaded the clip.
There is a bigger problem then funding and recruitment.is The police hate most Americans , Did you see the Sheriff smile and say you re good to the kill shot cop. Cult
Your basically saying the Cops are second rate and unprofessional due to budget constraints.
A quick review shows the Vermont State police shot a man 8 times including in the back, shot another man over a Rose bush, and last week shot a 76 yr old man claimng tasers and pepperballs don't stop the elderly.
Last year in upstateNY the Troopers chased a man into the woods who was unarmed and Unloaded the clip.
There is a bigger problem then funding and recruitment.is The police hate most Americans , Did you see the Sheriff smile and say you re good to the kill shot cop. Cult
1
There is another option when someone is hallucinating and making wild erratic movements. Just let them move until they calm down. Don't try to confine them. I know, I'm not a cop out in the field. I'm just another keyboard quarterback. But think about it. If someone is outside, unarmed and thrashing about, just let them thrash away. We have seen many instances when a suspect is holed up in a house and the police spend hours trying to talk them out to avoid bloodshed. Why is this tactic not used when someone is having mental or drug reaction problems?
The taser is why. Instead of using passive techniques, the taser motivates law enforcement to take aggressive action. It's supposed to be harmless, right? No it's not harmless. We have also seen many instances where cops pile on and suffocate with chest compression. It's like once the tasering starts, physical force accelerates.
The taser is a serious weapon. It should only be deployed to negate the use of lethal force. In this situation, lethal force was not called for, but lethal force was the result.
The taser is why. Instead of using passive techniques, the taser motivates law enforcement to take aggressive action. It's supposed to be harmless, right? No it's not harmless. We have also seen many instances where cops pile on and suffocate with chest compression. It's like once the tasering starts, physical force accelerates.
The taser is a serious weapon. It should only be deployed to negate the use of lethal force. In this situation, lethal force was not called for, but lethal force was the result.
15
we are all armchair quarterbacks, and I appreciate your humility and candor
maybe part of the answer is:
1. he is by a highway and the he could run into traffic
2. he is having some type of event...what if he started seizing and died "you mean you officers did not take him to a hospital...you watched him until he had a seizure and died"
3. there job is not to make health or mental health diagnoses or treat the person: what if they are thrashing around because they are a diabetic who is severely hypoglycemic...and need to go to a hospital
4. people having mental health crises are not treated in the back seat of a car...
very few are willing to say this is a tragedy...mental illness can be awful...we need to learn and try harder...but the real problem is mental health and the the real solution is better mental health treatment
and that will not come from cops or ems...even though they are on the front lines
maybe part of the answer is:
1. he is by a highway and the he could run into traffic
2. he is having some type of event...what if he started seizing and died "you mean you officers did not take him to a hospital...you watched him until he had a seizure and died"
3. there job is not to make health or mental health diagnoses or treat the person: what if they are thrashing around because they are a diabetic who is severely hypoglycemic...and need to go to a hospital
4. people having mental health crises are not treated in the back seat of a car...
very few are willing to say this is a tragedy...mental illness can be awful...we need to learn and try harder...but the real problem is mental health and the the real solution is better mental health treatment
and that will not come from cops or ems...even though they are on the front lines
1
Just let them move until they calm down....on the side of an interstate highway? You don't think that might have caused a problem?
1
An important point, overlooked: police departments have many options to subdue persons who are unarmed threats, including the use of net guns that fire entangling nets. Also, this area is a perfect opportunity for research and entrepreneurship: the choices of restraint for subduing unarmed suspects must be expanded to assist in more effective policing, without raising the level of community violence.
4
American police seem to be clean-up crews. Call them when you want someone who is annoying you killed. Otherwise police are precisely whom you do not want anywhere near you.
35
To my ear, there was an unmistakable tone to the most prominent voice recorded on the body-camera during the entire scuffle. That tone drowned out the actual words he was yelling, screaming "say things that might make you look OK if this footage gets reviewed," eg, "STOP RESISTING!!" -- to a man who is handcuffed and lying in a rear-seat footwell. "DON'T TRY TO TAKE MY THING!" "DON'T TRY TO KICK ME!" All seem a means of on-scene propaganda, a narration that wouldn't take place without the deputy being hyper-aware that he was being recorded, and playing to some imagined camera/audio narrative.
Did those control-freak deputies ever consider just standing up and letting Sherman breathe, once they'd gotten cuffs on him? Worst case, he wriggles to the edge of the car, where you could more humanely restrain him. If he'd been in the bottom of a well, would you have been down there with your knees on his chest?
Did those control-freak deputies ever consider just standing up and letting Sherman breathe, once they'd gotten cuffs on him? Worst case, he wriggles to the edge of the car, where you could more humanely restrain him. If he'd been in the bottom of a well, would you have been down there with your knees on his chest?
17
Gregoire Ahongbonong helps the mentally ill in West Africa (Togo, Ivory Coast). I saw a video on the internet where he is able to calm a person having a psychotic episode with love and compassion and by putting his arms around him. It seems to me to be obvious that tasing is not going to work for a person undergoing this kind of mental distress. Why would the police believe otherwise?
6
Seems like an unfortunate accident. People who do crazy, illegal, violent stuff should understand that there are risks and consequences to their actions. His own family could not deal with his behavior, he has only himself to blame.
3
Rahul, I might buy your statement if he was capable of understanding but he wasn't. The man's reaction was the same whether he was on drugs or mentally ill. He has no real understanding of the consequences of his actions. There was a previous article about US police getting training by Scottish police on how to de-escalate a situation which also includes stepping back and letting things cool down. These officers could have learned that lesson in this Instance.
Take a look at the picture posted by NYT of Chase Sherman. Very serene, girlfriend, beach etc.
Deathi is sad and unwarranted. This guy also took drugs.
Take al ook at the pictures posted after Sandra Bland's death. She had a cigarette. The news media continued to post her disheveled picture even after a better picture in a party dress was made available.
Deathi is sad and unwarranted. This guy also took drugs.
Take al ook at the pictures posted after Sandra Bland's death. She had a cigarette. The news media continued to post her disheveled picture even after a better picture in a party dress was made available.
5
Another fine example of America in action. This man needed medical assistance from the very beginning. 911 should have sent a para medic squad, they are at least trained to deal with such situations. The police officer is right to be worried about his job. His last words on the video about sum it up.
10
All the article said was that the family called the police. You don't know what they said to the police. Maybe they didn't ask for "medical assistance".
1
Please let law enforcement officers do what they are supposed to do- serve and protect. Hire only those with the right temperament and require some standard training nationwide, and possibly a two-year apprenticeship. They should not be a hastily drafted, poorly trained occupying force in a foreign country, which is the attitude that drives these tragedies.
6
Call an ambulance, not the police, if you need help with a health (including mental health) issue. US police utilize deadly force inappropriately and are not trained to handle a situation calling for calm negotiation and an approach that diffuses hostility without harm.
2
When police officers show up to a situation with a clearly belligerent man, they have no way of knowing if that man is simply angry, on PCP, or as in this case, in the middle of a psychotic episode. Imagine trying to subdue a man, while worrying that he might injure them, a bystander, or simply break free and run onto oncoming traffic. In short, no good outcome could have come of this, regardless of all of our second guessing.
Besides the shock of seeing a human being die in front of us, I take issue with the inflammatory title chosen by the Times, I think "Belligerent individual puts himself, family and police officers in danger, resulting in his death," would have conveyed a more accurate representation of the facts.
And no, I'm not siding with the officers. I think if there are regulations for the amount of times a person can be stunned with a Taser gun, then we need to look at that. But simply letting our emotions get a hold of us, while watching an intense scene, where you can almost taste the adrenaline, would be a disservice to our police officers, and the family of the victim.
We have all been sickened by the images of police brutality in other videos. I just don't think this case can be added to those.
Besides the shock of seeing a human being die in front of us, I take issue with the inflammatory title chosen by the Times, I think "Belligerent individual puts himself, family and police officers in danger, resulting in his death," would have conveyed a more accurate representation of the facts.
And no, I'm not siding with the officers. I think if there are regulations for the amount of times a person can be stunned with a Taser gun, then we need to look at that. But simply letting our emotions get a hold of us, while watching an intense scene, where you can almost taste the adrenaline, would be a disservice to our police officers, and the family of the victim.
We have all been sickened by the images of police brutality in other videos. I just don't think this case can be added to those.
3
The story is sketchy on why a call for medical assistance by the Shermans ended up being handled by the police. The police are obviously not trained to deal with situations like this yet they end up being the first responder. You know what they say, when you are a hammer everything looks like a nail. Well, to the police a hallucinating person looks like a criminal so they react in the only way they know.
Obviously better procedures as to how to respond to mental health 911 calls as well as better training for both police and EMT personnel is needed. I see some culpability here by the EMT - why weren't they taking control of the situation rather than letting the police brutalize a hallucinating man?
Obviously better procedures as to how to respond to mental health 911 calls as well as better training for both police and EMT personnel is needed. I see some culpability here by the EMT - why weren't they taking control of the situation rather than letting the police brutalize a hallucinating man?
4
The article says they called the police. Says nothing about mental health nor what the family said when they called the police. If someone is a threat to themselves or others, you think only an EMT should respond?
You are making a diagnosis based on an article in the Times?
You are making a diagnosis based on an article in the Times?
Apart from what one thinks regarding the officers' conduct in a difficult situation, this story should highlight the fact that "recreational" drugs like all drugs are not harmless and can lead to serious and even deadly consequences.
****A Connecticut physician
****A Connecticut physician
12
I think you may be failing to make an important distinction between so-called "synthetic marijuana" and regular cannabis, which are quite different (see the work of NYU's Dr. Lewis Nelson). I realize this isn't the forum to discuss such a complex topic, but regardless of how one feels about cannabis, applying this example to its use is a false equivalency.
-A regular cannabis user with an upper middle-class job.
-A regular cannabis user with an upper middle-class job.
4
There are recreational drugs other than marijuana.
Also, drug users are not known for their love of the truth. Maybe the synthetic marijuana was not all he was on. The family knew something was wrong which is why they rented a car as opposed to flying. There are plenty of good hospitals in Atlanta.
Also, drug users are not known for their love of the truth. Maybe the synthetic marijuana was not all he was on. The family knew something was wrong which is why they rented a car as opposed to flying. There are plenty of good hospitals in Atlanta.
No, Joseph.
ALL drugs are not potentially harmless, including cannabis.
ALL drugs are not potentially harmless, including cannabis.
1
The adage -'if the only tool you have is a hammer you treat everything as if it were a nail' seems to apply apply.
13
Both tasers and pepper sprays have caused numerous deaths.
I don't think the police take any considerations before the liberal usage of these devices. The age, health, mental state, physical size, on and on. Those with heart, respiratory or other health problems can be easily killed with them.
I once read about a woman who was pulled over for speeding. She was obviously pregnant and was trying to get home to relieve herself. When the cop demanded she step out her car and she did not respond to his liking he tasered her, right in front of her children.
Tasers and pepper sprays are dangerous tools/weapons used by mostly dangerous, cowardly men.
On another note why can't police use guns properly and shoot somebody once in the leg instead of numerous bullets into the torsos of fleeing suspects? Who is policing the police anymore?
I don't think the police take any considerations before the liberal usage of these devices. The age, health, mental state, physical size, on and on. Those with heart, respiratory or other health problems can be easily killed with them.
I once read about a woman who was pulled over for speeding. She was obviously pregnant and was trying to get home to relieve herself. When the cop demanded she step out her car and she did not respond to his liking he tasered her, right in front of her children.
Tasers and pepper sprays are dangerous tools/weapons used by mostly dangerous, cowardly men.
On another note why can't police use guns properly and shoot somebody once in the leg instead of numerous bullets into the torsos of fleeing suspects? Who is policing the police anymore?
5
The victim is likely not the only one on 'drugs' here. This will keep happening until steroid use by cops is seriously investigated. You can see here, as in all these tragedies, that everybody loses control. What's most surprising is the EMT crushing the guy, which could be as deadly as the tasers.
23
I wonder why he was handcuffed with his hands in front, rather than behind. While I do not know what police procedures are, if his hands had been behind him he could not have grabbed the officer's taser gun.
But the police also need to trained to deal with either mentally ill or drug induced people in way that doesn't endanger their lives. There was no reason for this man to die. Couldn't they have kept him locked in the car and called for an ambulance so someone could have administered something to calm him?
I don't believe the officers intended to kill this man, but their lack of training and escalation of the situation is what caused this man's death. And it does not help that they show no compassion for the deceased or his family and are only concerned about their jobs.
But the police also need to trained to deal with either mentally ill or drug induced people in way that doesn't endanger their lives. There was no reason for this man to die. Couldn't they have kept him locked in the car and called for an ambulance so someone could have administered something to calm him?
I don't believe the officers intended to kill this man, but their lack of training and escalation of the situation is what caused this man's death. And it does not help that they show no compassion for the deceased or his family and are only concerned about their jobs.
11
Susan, I suspect that the individual was being combative, difficult to place cuffs on person who is lying on their back in a close space while being combative.
2
Might have thought about not taking illicit drugs, the ones that caused the hallucinations days later. I'm sure the supplier had a AAA rating from the FDA
1
And that carries the death penalty?
9
What struck me while watching this is that the officers aren't trying to deescalate the situation through language. I didn't hear anyone say at anytime, "Calm down," "It's going to be okay," "I need you to stop kicking and try to calm yourself."
10
"They said he took spice a couple days ago" - What the cop said to his superior as part of his ramshackle explanation of why they went to town on the guy.
1
Apparently it's true, also the video clearly demonstrates his violent resistance, which was the primary reason he got tased. If he'd stopped struggling before or after the first use of the taser, he'd have been fine. Well, brain-burnt from synth weed but living at least.
Why did the parents not take him to the nearest hospital?
Watching that video what I notice most is one officer who seems to be way too riled up emotionally. He's yelling about his taser and his radio not working, he's yelling at the suspect constantly, he's yelling about everything that's happening, so much that he can't discern that the man beneath him is kicking because he is in the throes of death.
Training, training, and more training. The officers in this video and others like it always appear to my eye to be unqualified for their work. They are hammers and everyone else is a nail, and that seems to be about the extent of their training for these situations.
Training, training, and more training. The officers in this video and others like it always appear to my eye to be unqualified for their work. They are hammers and everyone else is a nail, and that seems to be about the extent of their training for these situations.
57
This is absolutely incredible. With all that bullying from the police who is going to get subdued? It is as if the police with their hyper hysteria and aggressive methods were stimulating the man's agitation, any person's agitation, not to speak a man's who is having a breakdown. Is this the professional training that the police force is receiving in this country? Third world. Not only in the use of the taser but in the whole process to subdue the man. My condolences to the family. And to the mother who made the call and later saw the results, and whose efforts to have the bullies stop assaulting her son with the taser and screaming orders and threats at him, came to naught. This nightmare she may never be able to forget. Incredible. Subdue the police. Train them to act in a civilized way.
33
I think it about time that people learn when a family member is having mental problems don't call the police, take them to a hospital. American police are either off or on, they are not well trained enough to act with restraint. The whole ethos of American police is I would rather kill you than risk a broken fingernail trying to deal with you.
35
Tazers are instruments of Torture.
And a person on drugs is unable to cooperate. They may be hallucinating, for example.
The police have become obsessed with whether or not a citizen, who has rights (imagine that!), being forced into complete submission by them.
We do not live under military rule. Police are not dictators; they are public Servants. Seems to me the police are having great difficulty accepting those facts.
Their jobs may indeed place them in danger. But that's what they signed up for. If they are afraid of man in a back seat in handcuffs, they should resign.
If officers are drunk on dominating and dictating to citizens, we don't want them in uniform.
Do we allow firemen to set fires? Of course not! And neither should we allow police to dictate, dominate, torture or murder defenseless civilians, no matter how drugged or mentally ill they may be.
And a person on drugs is unable to cooperate. They may be hallucinating, for example.
The police have become obsessed with whether or not a citizen, who has rights (imagine that!), being forced into complete submission by them.
We do not live under military rule. Police are not dictators; they are public Servants. Seems to me the police are having great difficulty accepting those facts.
Their jobs may indeed place them in danger. But that's what they signed up for. If they are afraid of man in a back seat in handcuffs, they should resign.
If officers are drunk on dominating and dictating to citizens, we don't want them in uniform.
Do we allow firemen to set fires? Of course not! And neither should we allow police to dictate, dominate, torture or murder defenseless civilians, no matter how drugged or mentally ill they may be.
41
Drugged? Mentally ill? Are we talking about the 'perp' or the police?
Every police offer involved in a shooting or death should be tested for alcohol and drugs. Armed thugs using alcohol and steroids are a real problem in too many communities but these people are never tested after a shooting or killing no matter their actions or behavior. This is naive.
It is apparent that the loud mouthed cop in the car was an untrained bully. And, I'd hazard a guess that he was probably hired and 'trained' by other officers with no more business of being in in the 'protect and serve' business than he does.
The way we tolerate and protect this kind of bullying behavior among cops and prosecutors disgusts me.
US policing, prisons and justice need extensive, long-term rehabilitation.
Every police offer involved in a shooting or death should be tested for alcohol and drugs. Armed thugs using alcohol and steroids are a real problem in too many communities but these people are never tested after a shooting or killing no matter their actions or behavior. This is naive.
It is apparent that the loud mouthed cop in the car was an untrained bully. And, I'd hazard a guess that he was probably hired and 'trained' by other officers with no more business of being in in the 'protect and serve' business than he does.
The way we tolerate and protect this kind of bullying behavior among cops and prosecutors disgusts me.
US policing, prisons and justice need extensive, long-term rehabilitation.
1
The police knew that there was no crime associated with this call, but instead an irrational, unarmed, and possibly hallucinatory person in an hysterical state. In many other cities/locations, the dispatcher would have notified EMS at the same time as notifying the police. The police would then subdue the man until the medical people arrived. It would be no easy task, but with two large men confronting one unarmed man in a confined space, it certainly could have been done. These officers seemed all too ready to take the struggle personally and reach for the weapons. There was no dire threat to them, so they were either not trained properly, not very smart, or not temperamentally suited to be police. I know many officers who would not have responded in this way. Very, very sad.
48
Article said assault had taken place.
2
As a nation we need to seriously re-evaluate the use of tasers by police (and private ownership as well.) This kind of story is way too common. Clearly there is something about these devices -- convenience? expedience? unconscious sadism? -- that makes them far too easy to abuse.
A potentially lethal weapon should not be the first go-to option to subdue unarmed citizens, and clearly "training" isn't enough to prevent this kind of tragedy. How many traffic-stop tazings of grandmothers, school children, pregnant women, people of color and mentally ill are we willing to accept?
A potentially lethal weapon should not be the first go-to option to subdue unarmed citizens, and clearly "training" isn't enough to prevent this kind of tragedy. How many traffic-stop tazings of grandmothers, school children, pregnant women, people of color and mentally ill are we willing to accept?
21
None of this would have happened in the first place if the guy hadn't taken "spice." I think that educating people on the effects of these type of drugs is more effective than trying to fix the police.
2
Synthetic marijuana has nothing whatsoever to do with this tragedy. The police failed the victim and his family...plain and simple. Another preventable and unnecessary death at the hands of those sworn to protect and serve.
9
If, in fact, he did take it, and if, in fact it had anything to do with his behaviour (which is unlikely), then these LEOs still acted poorly and their conduct is not excused.
1
Are you sure about that? I agree that educating people is a good idea, and I think you could use some.
1
Current police training has a fairly clear line for when deadly force can be used, namely when the life of the officer or someone else is at risk. What they fail to realize is that repeated application of a Taser can easily become deadly force.
With Mr. Sherman handcuffed in the back seat, no one was at any risk. There was ample opportunity to use both distance and time to defuse the situation. Instead, the officers behaved very aggressively while remaining in close proximity, increasing the risk to all.
Effective training is needed to correct this. It's also abundantly clear that these officers lack the judgment necessary to remain in law-enforcement. I'm not sure if they should face charges, but they should definitely be fired.
With Mr. Sherman handcuffed in the back seat, no one was at any risk. There was ample opportunity to use both distance and time to defuse the situation. Instead, the officers behaved very aggressively while remaining in close proximity, increasing the risk to all.
Effective training is needed to correct this. It's also abundantly clear that these officers lack the judgment necessary to remain in law-enforcement. I'm not sure if they should face charges, but they should definitely be fired.
18
But some officers believe their lives are at risk any time someone they don't like looks at them funny.
5
If the man were in a psychiatric hospital and acting similarly, would he have been tased? I don't think so. I suspect he would have been restrained and sedated.
Perhaps if police could have sedated Mr. Sherman upon restraining him this tragedy would have been avoided.
Perhaps if police could have sedated Mr. Sherman upon restraining him this tragedy would have been avoided.
4
There are no Tazers in mental hospitals. And even if a patient is out of control, methods to either isolate or subdue them must be carefully documented, continually observed, and are regulated by law!
2
Tasering a handcuffed person is murder, plain and simple. Time for a special prosecutor.
72
No, if there is no intention to kill. Even shouting an handcuffed with areal gun is not murder, if there is no intention to kill. Sometimes it is not easy to determine if there was an intention to kill, but here, it is absolutely clear that there was none. So this is a manslaughter, not a murder.
and what would you have done?
What kind of people are police department's hiring these days? Anyone with a pulse? If the police are supposed to protect and serve then it is about time there are strict guidelines and hurdles to jump over to become a "peace" officer. Start with being fit. So many police officers are obese these days they use a taser because they could not run ten steps without dropping. Psychological testing should be mandatory. Living in the community they serve should be mandatory. Police "wilding" must be prosecuted.
13
I guess they're not smart enough to step out of the car and close the doors until backup arrived or he calmed down.
125
Or, they were smart enough to realize that a regular rental car's doors can easily be opened by anyone inside. He wasn't locked in the backseat of a patrol vehicle, he was in a normal car which can't be 'secured' from the outside.
If the people who killed him had been untrained, the charges would be involuntary manslaughter, but since the police are well trained, they knew what they were doing made no sense for someone with mental issues. They were also aware of the risks of repeatedly using a taser, and also putting heavy weight on a person and it's affect on the heart and lungs. The man was handcuffed, which made this episode 100% unnecessary. A competent office would not be at risk or feel frightened in this situation. Given all these factors, the officers should be charged with murder. Emotional anger (damage to ego) drove them to do it, like almost all unpremeditated murders.
44
There are a great many brave and honourable men and women who serve in law enforcement. But this story is like so many we are seeing. Cowardly and poorly trained cops will kill, brutalize, lie... That's also reality and society deserves a solution to this menace.
7
It appears from the article the deputies worsened the situation rather than calming it. This is repeated again and again in the US where law enforcement attempts to use force rather than their wits in dealing with the mentally ill or those having mental issue episodes. After the murder of a mentally ill suspect in Portland Oregon, the Justice Dept reviewed LE procedures and found the department totally unequipped and untrained for dealing with the mentally ill. They were mandated to retrain officers and hire individuals educated and trained to deal with mental health issues. The police union continues to resist.
It is shameful, as is the behavior of the Georgia deputies. Prosecution appears to be the only effective teacher. In childhood, we learn to use our words rather than acting out with another. Some obviously miss the lesson.
It is shameful, as is the behavior of the Georgia deputies. Prosecution appears to be the only effective teacher. In childhood, we learn to use our words rather than acting out with another. Some obviously miss the lesson.
25
In response to a lot of the posts opining that this was murder, can you please help us understand your comments? What I see on the video seems to be very different than what you are seeing.
* It does not appear that the deputies knew Mr. Sherman or targeted him. The officers do not appear to dislike him and certainly do not appear to have singled him out for extraordinary treatment.
* The deputies appear to apply force commiserate with the situation they faced. Mr. Sherman appears to be a big guy resisting the officers. Grabbing the taser appears to put the deputies in a reasonable apprehension of danger.
* The taser does not appear to work to subdue Mr. Sherman. The deputies appear to apply it only while Mr. Sherman is conscious and struggling. They do not appear to apply it to intentionally hurt, injure or punish Mr. Sherman, but rather exclusively for the purpose of subduing him.
* Once Mr. Sherman becomes unresponsive, they immediately apply medical care. They appear panicked at the fact that he is not breathing.
None of this equates to me to be intentional acts to harm someone or particularly unreasonable behavior given the situation. Could it (in cool hindsight and at the safe distance of our keyboards) have been handled better? Probably, but to ask these guys to risk their lives to protect us and then micro-manage their decisions seems unfair.
I certainly do not side with police on many issues, but on this one, I can't say that they acted wrongfully.
* It does not appear that the deputies knew Mr. Sherman or targeted him. The officers do not appear to dislike him and certainly do not appear to have singled him out for extraordinary treatment.
* The deputies appear to apply force commiserate with the situation they faced. Mr. Sherman appears to be a big guy resisting the officers. Grabbing the taser appears to put the deputies in a reasonable apprehension of danger.
* The taser does not appear to work to subdue Mr. Sherman. The deputies appear to apply it only while Mr. Sherman is conscious and struggling. They do not appear to apply it to intentionally hurt, injure or punish Mr. Sherman, but rather exclusively for the purpose of subduing him.
* Once Mr. Sherman becomes unresponsive, they immediately apply medical care. They appear panicked at the fact that he is not breathing.
None of this equates to me to be intentional acts to harm someone or particularly unreasonable behavior given the situation. Could it (in cool hindsight and at the safe distance of our keyboards) have been handled better? Probably, but to ask these guys to risk their lives to protect us and then micro-manage their decisions seems unfair.
I certainly do not side with police on many issues, but on this one, I can't say that they acted wrongfully.
186
The officers clearly used excessive force in a situation where the patient (mental disorder) was a threat only to himself once they handcuffed him. The force they used was NOT commensurate to the situation. Also, the officers were so agitated themselves that they could not respond appropriately when the patient begged them to stop. Thismay not be murder, but it certainly is manslaughter.
27
Somebody who is being shocked with electricity (based) is going to shudder, twitch, engage in automatic jerky movements. That is not resisting. Particularly not if you are already handcuffed. Cops need to learn to not interpret automatic involuntary reactions to being teased or being hit as "resisting" or "violence."
Why did the police not wait for medical personnel to arrive once he was handcuffed and no longer presented a danger to anyone besides himself? Particularly since he was inside a car, which has doors that can be closed? That is the big question, and I'm surprised you don't see it.
Why did the police not wait for medical personnel to arrive once he was handcuffed and no longer presented a danger to anyone besides himself? Particularly since he was inside a car, which has doors that can be closed? That is the big question, and I'm surprised you don't see it.
17
You and I clearly did not view the same video or read the same article. I saw an LEO who tried to subdue an agitated and irrational person, confined inside of a car, with threats and brute force. When his techniques were unsuccessful and placed himself in danger, he repeated them with similar results. He made threats and escalated his own rhetoric. Finally, a third party, not an LEO, entered and was able to subdue the agitated person. The LEO clearly continued to be belligerent and to assault the man with his taser.
Even assuming that the LEO had terrible training and had no idea how to subdue an agitated person in a confined space except by bullying and force, I have to believe that he knew that his taser is dangerous, and that continuing to assault a person who is already subdued is not justified, even criminal. Yes, he was in a stressful situation, but that was in large part of his own making, and in any case, that hardly matters after the person is subdued. Perhaps his partner shares in some blame as well, and I suspect his department shares a lot, but I don't have enough information for those calls.
It would be an atrocious injustice not to treat this as misconduct. It would need a great deal of justification that is no where apparent for it not to be criminal. If this is acceptable behaviour, we are in a sad state. My hope is that this officer is prosecuted and the family wins large punitive damages against the department.
Even assuming that the LEO had terrible training and had no idea how to subdue an agitated person in a confined space except by bullying and force, I have to believe that he knew that his taser is dangerous, and that continuing to assault a person who is already subdued is not justified, even criminal. Yes, he was in a stressful situation, but that was in large part of his own making, and in any case, that hardly matters after the person is subdued. Perhaps his partner shares in some blame as well, and I suspect his department shares a lot, but I don't have enough information for those calls.
It would be an atrocious injustice not to treat this as misconduct. It would need a great deal of justification that is no where apparent for it not to be criminal. If this is acceptable behaviour, we are in a sad state. My hope is that this officer is prosecuted and the family wins large punitive damages against the department.
11
Even wild animals are treated with more respect!
Had they they mistreated an animal, I doubt they'd still be on the job.
The officers could simply have stepped out of the car. Instead of pointing a tazer at him.
This is inexcusable police behavior. They were in no danger. They just end wanted to dominate a man they had already put in handcuffs.
Had they they mistreated an animal, I doubt they'd still be on the job.
The officers could simply have stepped out of the car. Instead of pointing a tazer at him.
This is inexcusable police behavior. They were in no danger. They just end wanted to dominate a man they had already put in handcuffs.
26