HoHum....can we not cover a NEW subject instead of "professional" cheaters also referred to as crooks in uniforms?????
2
So much for "tamper-proof" bottles...... I wonder if such bottles are available for "hen-pecked" husbands. Everyone else seems to have figured it out already. Especially our athletic community.......
Why all the shock about Russia tampering with bottles and using performance enhancing drugs? During the cold war, the Soviets used every means they could think of to enhance Soviet prestige, their "superior" political system, and their "superior" athletic prowess, especially that of their female athletes, whose true gender was questionable.
Bringing home Olympic medals made the US look bad and took the Soviet citizen's mind off the fact that upper crust comrades lived in luxury apartments and got to shop in European import stores, while Soviet hoi pol loi got to stand in line at Gumps for third rate goods that might or might not be there.
Bringing home Olympic medals made the US look bad and took the Soviet citizen's mind off the fact that upper crust comrades lived in luxury apartments and got to shop in European import stores, while Soviet hoi pol loi got to stand in line at Gumps for third rate goods that might or might not be there.
Considering all these stories why have there been so few Russian sportsmen and women been caught at international tournaments? Or are all these countries ant-doping agencies in the game? Are we seeing a massive manipulation by some organizations including even by people at WADA?
1
Dr. Rodchenkov has nevertheless impacted himself in this illegal activity. How did he leave Russia?
High frequency pulsed layers can drill microscopic holes in any material (including glass) without otherwise damaging or heating the material. In fact there are companies that provide this service so that vials like these can be leak tested under differing conditions. It should be possible to pump out the original sample and replace it with a clean one through the hole. The hole could then be patched/plugged with a material with identical refractive index as the glass if necessary.
This whole caper depends on the urine sample room being conveniently located next to an unused "storeroom." Without the storeroom, the Russians couldn't have swapped the samples. Who mapped out the plans for the urine sample facility?
5
This appears to me to be a Gordion's knot problem. How to get into a tamper - proof bottle? You don't. You crack it open, get the serial number, and then destroy it and manufacture a counterfeit to replace it. At least that would be my guess. If that is the case, then the trick to exposing the fraud is not to find some tell-take sign of tampering but rather to recognize the tell-tale signs of the counterfeiting. Even if my suggestion above is incorrect, I bet that if you gave 100 of the world's best professional magicians one of the sealed bottles with instructions to go away and bring it back opened with no sign of tampering, at least one of them would soon hand it back to you opened with a solution to the problem.
4
Most industrial countries have vast capabilities to replicate seals used to secure diplomatic pouches, classified document containers, etc. An important anti-counterfeiting principle is using multiple layers of security. In this case, that would have translated to serial numbers embedded in chips. rfid microcircuits, fluorescent or magnetic markings, etc. One or two layers isn't even adequate for low denomination currency.
1
In the light of Dr. Carlin's comments, WADA is caught between a rock and a hard place. Either it consents to the requested examination of the "B bottles" and lives with years of recrimination and (perhaps) FIFA-esque criminal investigations, or its governing body says with a strait face - and for whatever reason - that the important thing is to insure that the highest standards are met going forward. (And by the way the B-bottles have been destroyed in service of devoting all of our collective energies to the future.)
And as preposterous as the second alternative may seem, it was, if only by example, the approach taken by the incoming Obama administration to individual criminal prosecutions arising out of the 2007 - 2008 debacle. Then too, in light of the tragic passing this February of two of Dr. Rodchenkov former colleges, there might be a question of what influence Russian security services can bring to bear on any individual official or board member of WADA as it contemplates the next move. (Are they feeling lucky?)
And as preposterous as the second alternative may seem, it was, if only by example, the approach taken by the incoming Obama administration to individual criminal prosecutions arising out of the 2007 - 2008 debacle. Then too, in light of the tragic passing this February of two of Dr. Rodchenkov former colleges, there might be a question of what influence Russian security services can bring to bear on any individual official or board member of WADA as it contemplates the next move. (Are they feeling lucky?)
The creativity that Russians show in so many things--whether it's ballet and literature, or the AK-47 assault rifle and MiG airplane, or ice hockey--finds an unfortunate outlet when it comes to sporting events that pit an athlete against the clock. My own experience in Russia tells me that Russians will cheat if the stakes are high, if national pride is on the line, or if they know they can get away with it.
1
Here's the Russian way...Doping the athletes by hook and by crook.
Here's the American way...campaign, lobby, badger and cajole until the rules are finally changed to allow professional athletes to compete in "The Games." Which allowed the U.S.A. to form basketball's "Dream Team." Professional athletes competing in an Olympiad, outside of Hockey and Baseball, whatever its status, no more makes a level playing field than state-sponsored doping.
Do Not in any way shape or form condone Russia's doping, or any cheating generally, but the Soviets and now the Russians have been doping their athletes since at least the 1960's and they haven't been made to stop yet...
Here's the American way...campaign, lobby, badger and cajole until the rules are finally changed to allow professional athletes to compete in "The Games." Which allowed the U.S.A. to form basketball's "Dream Team." Professional athletes competing in an Olympiad, outside of Hockey and Baseball, whatever its status, no more makes a level playing field than state-sponsored doping.
Do Not in any way shape or form condone Russia's doping, or any cheating generally, but the Soviets and now the Russians have been doping their athletes since at least the 1960's and they haven't been made to stop yet...
1
Just WHAT "mystery" is it you are talking about? The subject is so-called "professional sports", where cheating in any way possible is possible and is accomplished, almost on a daily basis. The biggest "mystery" is how so few get caught at it.........
1
Russians cheat. It is their history. It is their future.
No one is surprised by the cheating --
Only the methods change from Olympiad to Olympiad.
No one is surprised by the cheating --
Only the methods change from Olympiad to Olympiad.
1
With luck this, plus the looming fiasco in Rio de Janeiro, will kill the Olympics.
Given that the Russian government under Mr. Putin has proven itself to be a violent and sophisticated criminal gang, one has to wonder why Rodchenkov would risk his life to anger him. He's either very foolish or very brave. Since Rodchenkov has nothing to gain, I bet he's the latter.
1
So nice to see the Olympics perpetuate nationalism. And all the wonderful ritual attached to it, do not forget your xenophobic or paranoid inclinations, by all means bring them along.
So we have a Summer Olympics in a failed country, the athletes will be swimming through a sewer and Russia will validate all the proper testing.
What could possibly go wrong, and who are the sponsors?
So we have a Summer Olympics in a failed country, the athletes will be swimming through a sewer and Russia will validate all the proper testing.
What could possibly go wrong, and who are the sponsors?
Weren't international experts present through the testing of athletes? Have any of them opined on what they observed and how they could have been fooled? Why not adopt a more cautious stance on the reliability of the Rodchenko claims and see what a full investigation will reveal?
Who really cares? The Olympics are not games. They are huge advertising platforms, hence the multi billion dollar broadcasting right fees. If there was any cheating, so what. It's irrelevant. We act so indignant. Lance Armstrong cheated for years. Everyone knew it, but as long as he brought revenue, it was ignored. Grow up.
2
Someone from the Netherlands comments that Americans are more prone to see the doping errors of other countries than in our own, giving Lance Armstrong as an example. But there is a rather large difference between individuals using banned substances and some State government doing this--what would someone think if the Dutch government itself sponsored doping at Olympic Games?
USSR or Russia, both forms embrace a common culture, so who would NOT expect their Olympic team to engage in doping?
The Olympics are likely full of corruption, just as we found with soccer. And, I'm sure other sports organization. Those must be rooted out.
However, it seems most readers cannot differentiate between that and the full scale drugging and cheating perpetrated not by individuals but a sovereign country.
Russia must be suspended from participating in the next games and forfeit their medals from sochi games. They should be also be prohibited from hosting for at least a decade. This wasn't the result of an over zealous coach, it was the country under putin and his desire to cheat in the name of nationalism.
Russia is out, or the Olympics are nothing but pc pandering to a dishonest dedpot.
However, it seems most readers cannot differentiate between that and the full scale drugging and cheating perpetrated not by individuals but a sovereign country.
Russia must be suspended from participating in the next games and forfeit their medals from sochi games. They should be also be prohibited from hosting for at least a decade. This wasn't the result of an over zealous coach, it was the country under putin and his desire to cheat in the name of nationalism.
Russia is out, or the Olympics are nothing but pc pandering to a dishonest dedpot.
Why bother tampering with the bottles? Why not just make new bottles with the identical labeling and marking? I'm pretty sure the Russian state has the resources to do that.
At any rate, this is state and brings doping and cheating to a new level.
At any rate, this is state and brings doping and cheating to a new level.
A hole in the wall? High tech done in by low tech.
Anything a human mind can construct, another human mine can figure out.
the IOC will allow fake snow (2022 winter games). fake urine is just a footnote. saddest for the true young athletes with a dream, but what about the olympics is real anymore? professional (highly compensated) athletes compete as "amateurs." any sport that demands to be included is. cities go broke trying to bid and build facilities that become burdens when the games are gone.
No need to open any bottle. All you need is the ability to produce (or buy) new bottles, and to print copies of labels.
A ridiculously easy task for Russian engineers.
A ridiculously easy task for Russian engineers.
If I had to guess, I'd say that the FSB agents who were studying the bottles developed a jig or a machine with thin metal arms that are able to reach under the cap and compress the retaining ring so that the cap can be removed. The bottle is equipped with a simple mechanical seal. Given sufficient time, money, and resources (and engineering assistance), almost anything is possible.
1
Why remove the caps? If you collected hundreds before the games just put a label maker in the room next door. No need to break into them if you just replace them.
There are several ways that the B bottle could easily be defeated. Thanks to the precision of Swiss manufacturing, a very accurate computer controlled machine, using an ultrasonic cutter, a diamond cutter, a laser or other device could be fabricated to cut off the old cap and the B bottle returned with a new cap. Or even easier, the label could be duplicated and a brand-new Cap and bottle affixed with the duplicated label returned to the testing lab.
2
If the allegations are true, no tampering was necessary. They most likely obtained legitimate copies of new Berlinger bottles.
This is the most expedient solution to the problem. They probably already had bottles with correct labeling and clean samples prepared before the break-in occurred. They obviously had the info needed to identify the bottles, so not a stretch to use identical print technology to create matching labels beforehand. This is child's play if you have the backing of a state intelligence service.
This is far more plausible than breaking into individual bottles, pouring out the tainted samples and replacing them with clean samples.
This is the most expedient solution to the problem. They probably already had bottles with correct labeling and clean samples prepared before the break-in occurred. They obviously had the info needed to identify the bottles, so not a stretch to use identical print technology to create matching labels beforehand. This is child's play if you have the backing of a state intelligence service.
This is far more plausible than breaking into individual bottles, pouring out the tainted samples and replacing them with clean samples.
The Russians could have acquired their own set of bottles, removed the caps from the sample and simply replaced the caps with new caps.
The Achilles heel of these bottles might be the metal spring. My theory is that a strong magnet could be used to compress the spring and metal ring thus allowing it to be easily unscrewed.
1
Who is better at cheating than the Russians? Maybe the Chinese?
If the cap cannot be taken off without being destroyed, and the identifying labels are on the bottle but not the cap, then it seems the easier way to tinker with the contents of the bottles would be to counterfeit the caps, then put fresh caps on after the original is taken off.
Have some athletes been declared positive with urine that was not theirs?
The Olympic Game are just the Olympic games, with emphasis on the small letter "g" to signify that, with all the cheating and now with Zika worries, these sporting events are just games, beyond being silly, though, because they're now harmful in many ways.
The Russians have been cheating for decades -- it's what their coaches and sporting 'apparatchik' do the best. The IOC should create a cheating event just for them.
The Russians have been cheating for decades -- it's what their coaches and sporting 'apparatchik' do the best. The IOC should create a cheating event just for them.
I'm shocked, our so-called world leader's are cheating and stealing their way through life while putting all humanity in constant peril. Cheating and stealing is the new norm. Remember to lead by example and the rest will follow. By the way the Olympics are part of the grand distraction. Have you been to the coliseum lately?
I am more than willing to believe that such an operation was carried out. But there is one thing in the reporting that strains my credulity about the veracity of the particulars. I have trouble understanding why Dr. Rodchenkov would have photographed the holes in both sides of that wall, as per the captions of those pictures in the Graphic accompanying this article. Especially because there are no other pictures of the operation published here. If you told me that those were mock-ups made for the documentary I would get it; that is not the captioning.
3
My thought was that he needed to provide some proof to a superior that the work had been completed.
.
How was it done? Maybe we'll never know the details.
But we do know that humans are mightily inventive and cunning. Where there's a will, there's a way.
How was it done? Maybe we'll never know the details.
But we do know that humans are mightily inventive and cunning. Where there's a will, there's a way.
5
We hear a great deal of talk, concerning the ill effect of money in politics, but the effect on money on sports is even more corrosive.
Avery Brundage, who headed the International Olympic Committee for twenty years until 1972, often said, that after he was gone, the Olympics would be finished. Was he ever right!
There are no Olympic games anymore. There is absolutely nothing Corinthian about what is still advertised as the "Olympics"; what we have now, is entirely corrupt, and drugs are the handmaiden of Sports corruption.
The press should cover the Olympics for what it is - a trade show for Equipment Manufactures, Professional Basketball teams, and in the background, the abilities of each nations Pharmaceutical Industry.
We need journalists who talk, not about corks in bottles, but about the corks in their own mouths, that prevent them from "telling it like it is" about the entire Olympic picture.
Avery Brundage, who headed the International Olympic Committee for twenty years until 1972, often said, that after he was gone, the Olympics would be finished. Was he ever right!
There are no Olympic games anymore. There is absolutely nothing Corinthian about what is still advertised as the "Olympics"; what we have now, is entirely corrupt, and drugs are the handmaiden of Sports corruption.
The press should cover the Olympics for what it is - a trade show for Equipment Manufactures, Professional Basketball teams, and in the background, the abilities of each nations Pharmaceutical Industry.
We need journalists who talk, not about corks in bottles, but about the corks in their own mouths, that prevent them from "telling it like it is" about the entire Olympic picture.
41
I think the main reason for the lack of focus on corruption in sports is that, unlike with politics, peoples' lives aren't held in the balance. There is prestige associated with winning in the Olympics, but ultimately the result is irrelevant to the greater good. Perhaps during the Cold War this sort of thing was relevant, though.
You're entirely correct about the role of money in sports, however. Doping is rampant in every major sport in the US and the Olympics. There's much more money in winning than catching cheats, so I don't know if the problem is even solvable. I'm reminded of an old Futurama joke that commented on "the days before doping became mandatory".
You're entirely correct about the role of money in sports, however. Doping is rampant in every major sport in the US and the Olympics. There's much more money in winning than catching cheats, so I don't know if the problem is even solvable. I'm reminded of an old Futurama joke that commented on "the days before doping became mandatory".
Russia lost TONS of money bankrolling this whole operation. And they certainly aren't paying their track stars Bryce Harper money so the money seems to be missing the point here at least.
This is all about global geopolitics and Russia and Putin attempting to re-assert itself as a global superpower. Never underestimate the power of sport on national and global culture. Or the levels Russia will stoop to, ie still sending over fake "American families" whose kids don't even know they're even Russian until the parents are hauled away in cuffs...it's the Soviet way.
This is all about global geopolitics and Russia and Putin attempting to re-assert itself as a global superpower. Never underestimate the power of sport on national and global culture. Or the levels Russia will stoop to, ie still sending over fake "American families" whose kids don't even know they're even Russian until the parents are hauled away in cuffs...it's the Soviet way.
1
Why did they have to open the bottles? Why wouldn't they have simply replaced the bottles with other bottles containing 'clean' samples? It would have been fairly easy to duplicate the labels on the bottles including the imprinting with the proper equipment.
7
My impression (based on a Russian-oriented career spanning decades) is that it's not a crime to cheat in Russia, it's just a crime to be caught cheating. That's what is unforgivable. Note why Rodchenkov fled — it was for his life.
31
The only thing they needed was a supply of replacement caps, and a device to imprint them with any desired serial number. Split the original caps, transfer the metal ring and spring to a new cap, and apply the desired numbers.
The evidence, conveniently, was destroyed when the testing lab removed the bogus caps, but a close examination of the "B" samples might reveal the switch.
The evidence, conveniently, was destroyed when the testing lab removed the bogus caps, but a close examination of the "B" samples might reveal the switch.
7
They copied the identifying info on the real bottles, placed it on new pre-filled bottles and passed those back through the wall. The old bottles were never opened.
18
That's my thought as well. They didn't open the bottle, they copied the identifier and put them on new bottles which they could obtain in a myriad of ways.
Seems simple to me: pulverize and melt/liquify bottle caps from the B samples as well as control caps directly from the factory. A chemical analysis and comparison should tell if the plastics cam from the exact same source. The Russians likely manufactured their own clones of the caps, but the chemical analyses would show they are not from the exact same stock.
The Russian agents undoubtedly have one of the $2000 machines that breaks open the caps, and replaced each with a new cap with the same serial number moulded or imprinted on the new cap wherever the govt. agents were holed up for "a few hours" before returning to the storeroom to push the bottles with new "loose" caps through the wall.
The Russian agents undoubtedly have one of the $2000 machines that breaks open the caps, and replaced each with a new cap with the same serial number moulded or imprinted on the new cap wherever the govt. agents were holed up for "a few hours" before returning to the storeroom to push the bottles with new "loose" caps through the wall.
11
True or false, either way, Dr Rodchenkov's life is now in danger.
27
i disagree, there is no point doing anything to him now
I would suspect that the bottles could be opened by heating the tops until the glass became plastic, that is bendable, and then using a device that spread the tops on all sides until they could be slipped past the locking teeth.
This would probably require the manufacture of a fairly sophisticated industrial device, which would not be beyond the capabilities of an industrialized nation, if it decided to turn its energies to cheating at sports.
This would probably require the manufacture of a fairly sophisticated industrial device, which would not be beyond the capabilities of an industrialized nation, if it decided to turn its energies to cheating at sports.
5
Elite athletes in every sport are taking some sort of PED's, wether on the banned list or not. Anyone who doesn't believe it, is naive.
19
Number one the olympics stopped being an amateur sporting event decades ago. Second, who cares. Don't let your babies grow up to be amateurs.
11
Electro-magnets. Even aluminum can be moved using powerful enough electro-magnets if the field is spinning. It is how they sort your recycling containers oddly enough.
As others have said, anyone who thinks something is tamperPROOF is an imbecile. The best you can hope for is tamper resistant.
As others have said, anyone who thinks something is tamperPROOF is an imbecile. The best you can hope for is tamper resistant.
35
Exactly...Neodymium magnets built to specifically bypass the metal teeth and reset them after tempering seems like it might work. Unlimited funds could easily make this work.
Perhaps the FBI's iPhone hacking partner can show WADA how a bottle can be hacked.
11
Manufacturing polonium to use to murder political opponents requires a high level of sophistication as well. Why is anyone surprised that Putin's henchmen could figure out how to open supposedly tamper-proof $15 bottles, especially if given ample opportunity and time to do so?
28
Yeah, and the I Phone encryption software can't be breached and the"Gordian knot" can't be unraveled.
You have 2 Russians who worked in Russia's testing analysis department with unexplained deaths. The only reason Dr Rodchenkov is alive is that he fled to the U.S.
But beware, the Russian spy apparatus has no problem assassinating their own people on foreign soil.
You have 2 Russians who worked in Russia's testing analysis department with unexplained deaths. The only reason Dr Rodchenkov is alive is that he fled to the U.S.
But beware, the Russian spy apparatus has no problem assassinating their own people on foreign soil.
42
I'm a little bit at a loss to see how a metal ring with teeth in it would produce scratches in the glass bottle neck if there was tampering. Glass is not easily scratched by metal. What was the metal ring composed of? Is the hardness of this metal compared to the glass?
2
I know it is fashionable to hate the Russians. The tale of deceit woven by an asylum seeker once he got to LA with the movie rights, including magic bottles, passed through a hole in the wall. Why would the Russians give steroids to cross-country skiers etc? Has it dawned on you that he might have been lying?
5
Steroids decrease recovery time from training - there is a well-documented history of steroid use in race training on pavement and on snow.
X-country skiing is incredibly hard on muscles and cardio-vascular systems, so using a booster shot is extremely plausible. Think of bike racing with arm movement, cold weather, levering shoulder-arm-back motions.
Think and you'll agree, I know: X-country is a perfect situation for dopers.
Think and you'll agree, I know: X-country is a perfect situation for dopers.
I am appalled that people would think the Russian s would cheat or lie The Ukrainians will vouch for them
1
Everything is rigged. The Olympics, Wall Street, Elections, Greek Debt. A lesson for the youth: the only way to get ahead is to cheat.
4
So these bottles were available for anyone who was willing to pay $15 a bottle???!
Just check if a few hundred bottles were conveniently purchased for some Russian intra-mural competition just a few months before the Olympics. After that it would be just a matter of printing some labels with colorful numbers and bar codes.
Just check if a few hundred bottles were conveniently purchased for some Russian intra-mural competition just a few months before the Olympics. After that it would be just a matter of printing some labels with colorful numbers and bar codes.
4
"Forensic Files" being played out on the front page of the NYTimes...I've used and loved Berlingers equipment for years - hanging on every word of this fascinating series of articles.
Thank you.
Thank you.
3
This story is not only implausible, it smacks of political anti-Russia motivation from those who wish to continue bashing the Russian government, in a throwback to the Cold War, along with personal gain for Mr. Rodchenkov. It is ludicrous for The New York Times to publish such an unsubstantiated claim as if it were fact. Besides the larger political implications, it insults the athletes who are condemned outright without proof.
7
I do not believe what says Rodchenkov.
He talks about alcohol-based cocktails, which he did for athletes.
But this is nonsense!
These mixtures are not helpful, they are harmful to health!
How can an athletes be able to compete in alcohol
intoxication?
The New York Times when you have something to write, watch
for plausibility.
Your articles are similar to a specially composed fiction ...
He talks about alcohol-based cocktails, which he did for athletes.
But this is nonsense!
These mixtures are not helpful, they are harmful to health!
How can an athletes be able to compete in alcohol
intoxication?
The New York Times when you have something to write, watch
for plausibility.
Your articles are similar to a specially composed fiction ...
3
Your argument is not plausible , Vasily.
One Tablespoon of alcohol will not cause intoxication, especially
in Russians who are nursed on the stuff from birth.
One Tablespoon of alcohol will not cause intoxication, especially
in Russians who are nursed on the stuff from birth.
2
There's more to this, of course, see http://www.olympic.org/Documents/Games_Sochi_2014/Anti-doping/IOC_Anti-D...
First, no cameras/photo-videography were allowed inside the testing stations. Second, athletes were asked to choose their sampling kits (why?). Given that athetes were able to photograph their paperwork without any hindrance, it suggests at least some personnel inside the testing stations were accessories. These moles, to speculate further, not just let photographing take place, but also probably steered fake sampling kits to athletes. Implying tamper-friendly bottles may have been used from the get-go (or go-get if you prefer).
Irrespective, given not a single athlete was caught, the fact remains that the unswapped sample A bottles passed testing with flying colors. So all the extra trouble to swap B bottles in the middle of the night, appears to have been, err, a complete waste. Which suggests the doctor does indeed know much about fixing winning cocktails. And with him now in the US, a huge market and millions to look forward to.
This Russian is set to hit the bottle like never before and get amazingly rich doing it. Go figure.
First, no cameras/photo-videography were allowed inside the testing stations. Second, athletes were asked to choose their sampling kits (why?). Given that athetes were able to photograph their paperwork without any hindrance, it suggests at least some personnel inside the testing stations were accessories. These moles, to speculate further, not just let photographing take place, but also probably steered fake sampling kits to athletes. Implying tamper-friendly bottles may have been used from the get-go (or go-get if you prefer).
Irrespective, given not a single athlete was caught, the fact remains that the unswapped sample A bottles passed testing with flying colors. So all the extra trouble to swap B bottles in the middle of the night, appears to have been, err, a complete waste. Which suggests the doctor does indeed know much about fixing winning cocktails. And with him now in the US, a huge market and millions to look forward to.
This Russian is set to hit the bottle like never before and get amazingly rich doing it. Go figure.
4
Athletes get to choose which sampling kit they use to limit the ability of corrupt testers from giving them a kit that's been "pre-doped" and would lead to a positive. Letting them photograph the paperwork is similar - it helps prevent disputes over chain of evidence later if there's a positive test and appeals.
1
I believe from yesterday's article, the "B bottles" were supposed to be held for 10 years after the games, in the event that any question later arose: not as a back-up to testing in the moment.
Boring through the bottom leaving everything intact? Personally, they should have the drugged Olympics as an alternate scheme along with steroid sponsors.
1
Why always picking on Russian athletes which makes me suspicious of the purpose of these accusations. Like they it must be proven beyond any reasonable doubt which is NOT the case. Now let's look at US biker Lance Armstrong who won the Tour de France 7 times ALL with drugs in his blood and still refuses to return the medals plus the money. But of course he is American and gets away with murder.
Like: USA miss seeing the log in your American eyes, because America is concentrating so hard on the splinter in the Russian's eyes' Equal to the FIFA corruption scandal while plenty of US sports events are bribed and corrupt.
Like: USA miss seeing the log in your American eyes, because America is concentrating so hard on the splinter in the Russian's eyes' Equal to the FIFA corruption scandal while plenty of US sports events are bribed and corrupt.
12
One major difference: our government did not dope Armstrong and did not formulate a plan for all athletes to be doped.
You have been reading too much propaganda. The us does not support Lance Armstrong and does not recognize his medals. They and his money will be forfeited. Now, how come the. Netherlands refuses to even arrest rapists anymore?
Your bitterness clouds your thinking. This story is being reported in an American paper but it has nothing to do with America.
If there is no 24 hour video surveilance in the samples holding room in addition to live security (obviously both not russian operated), that means that the guys from the "Doping Agency" are complete idiots and should all be fired immidiately.
31
This is hardly news. When Olympic games resumed at the beginning of the Cold War, Russia used every available strategy to boost its medal count. Doping their athletes was so common as to be expected, and the IOC was so incompetent and conflict-ridden that Russian sports officials had no fear of sanctions. Putin's Russia reads from the same playbook. For them, the real Olympic competition is cheating without risk of getting caught. By analogy, pulling off a successful sting with no one the wiser is the Gold. Pulling it off with questions raised, but no real proof earns them the Silver. And countering IOC investigators' circumstantial evidence of cheating with plausible denial earns them the Bronze.
The modern Russian state is grounded in criminal behavior, so why should international sports competition be treated any less so,.That is who they are and how the Russian state behaves. No surprises there. If there'sthere's a way to cheat, the Russian state will find a way to do so.
So, kick the Russians out of future athletic competitions for violating the one law that cannot be ignored with impunity, and that is the law of probability.
The modern Russian state is grounded in criminal behavior, so why should international sports competition be treated any less so,.That is who they are and how the Russian state behaves. No surprises there. If there'sthere's a way to cheat, the Russian state will find a way to do so.
So, kick the Russians out of future athletic competitions for violating the one law that cannot be ignored with impunity, and that is the law of probability.
10
The good Dr. Rodchenkov may be a skilled chemists but he doesn't know his physiology. It has been experimentally refuted that lipophilic drugs are resorbed more efficiently by mixing them with ethanol. But his athletes may have enjoyed a good whiskey together with his concoctions.
2
Any pro sport today involves winning on the arena and winning in the labs. The first side of the sport is open, the second one is mostly hidden, but it is there.
5
Russia to The World: We Are Not The Chronic Liars The World Has Known The Last 500 Years. We have break-proof bottles to prove it. See, you can't break the bottles, so Russians are not liars.
Another dictatorial, tyrannical future failed state has Switzerland to thank for useful baubles and super secret banking laws for the oligarchs of the world to revel in. Wow! The Swiss in all their smallness has been so useful to history's dictators and tyrants. Are the Swiss proud of this position? Or do they want everyone to shut up about it? Probably keep quiet. Don't want the rabble to find out.
Another dictatorial, tyrannical future failed state has Switzerland to thank for useful baubles and super secret banking laws for the oligarchs of the world to revel in. Wow! The Swiss in all their smallness has been so useful to history's dictators and tyrants. Are the Swiss proud of this position? Or do they want everyone to shut up about it? Probably keep quiet. Don't want the rabble to find out.
1
“I tried to break into these bottles years ago and couldn’t do it,” Don Catlin, the former head of the U.C.L.A. Olympic Analytical Laboratory, said. “It’s shocking.”
If you want to find out how to break into something, ask a criminal. Unless Mr. Catlin has a long rap sheet, his experience trying to break into the bottles is basically worthless. Find a motivated criminal (say a million dollar reward_, and you will see if the bottles are truly secure.
If you want to find out how to break into something, ask a criminal. Unless Mr. Catlin has a long rap sheet, his experience trying to break into the bottles is basically worthless. Find a motivated criminal (say a million dollar reward_, and you will see if the bottles are truly secure.
7
The Russian newspaper will publish information on consumption of a dope by the American athletes? And to ask anti-doping agency to check. It is interesting to look at reaction of Americans......
3
You paid RussoBots are The Best!
set the bottle face down in a bowl and pour some boiling H20 in the bowl so it will cover only the cap and not the glass.
Cap expands just enough while the glass of the bottle
remains unchanged. Twist and it's done
Cap expands just enough while the glass of the bottle
remains unchanged. Twist and it's done
If the allegations are true, give them a gold medal in the mental olympics. Better Russia should be occupied with cheating at sports than shooting down passenger planes.
This really should't be that difficult:
1.Build a number of full drug testing labs in modular fashion and ship them and the entire staff for each to specific events. In F1 paddocks, each team has built operational bases that they assemble/disassemble and ship around the world. And the level of technical sophistication in F1 easily rivals drug testing procedures.
2. Mandate the event host (e.g., Olympics, world cup, etc.) provide a plot of land on which WADA can set up a secure perimeter and set up the lab. Control 24 hour access from the date the lab is set up until after the games. Except for running utilities to these areas, host countries have zero involvement in drug testing at these events.
3.The B samples should be separated from the A samples immediately upon being collected and shipped daily to WADA Global HQ (far from the event) for secure storage.
4. All funding and staff are provided by WADA. Staff reside at WADA Global HQ between events, are salaried employees, and control the testing process from end to end.
5. Obviously, a new sample collection bottle design is needed - one that deploys a die if the weight, volume or temperature changes in abnormal ranges once the sample is collected?
Yes, there would be considerable costs associated with ensuring the integrity of these events. That just means less profit for these "non-profit" organizations that are left with literally $100s of millions dollars in profit at the end of each event.
1.Build a number of full drug testing labs in modular fashion and ship them and the entire staff for each to specific events. In F1 paddocks, each team has built operational bases that they assemble/disassemble and ship around the world. And the level of technical sophistication in F1 easily rivals drug testing procedures.
2. Mandate the event host (e.g., Olympics, world cup, etc.) provide a plot of land on which WADA can set up a secure perimeter and set up the lab. Control 24 hour access from the date the lab is set up until after the games. Except for running utilities to these areas, host countries have zero involvement in drug testing at these events.
3.The B samples should be separated from the A samples immediately upon being collected and shipped daily to WADA Global HQ (far from the event) for secure storage.
4. All funding and staff are provided by WADA. Staff reside at WADA Global HQ between events, are salaried employees, and control the testing process from end to end.
5. Obviously, a new sample collection bottle design is needed - one that deploys a die if the weight, volume or temperature changes in abnormal ranges once the sample is collected?
Yes, there would be considerable costs associated with ensuring the integrity of these events. That just means less profit for these "non-profit" organizations that are left with literally $100s of millions dollars in profit at the end of each event.
2
I have every confidence that the Kremlin would not be so stupid as to leave a trail of hard evidence leading to its door.
To paraphrase the famous film dialogue, We don't need no stinking evidence.
The Western public's standard of guilt or innocence is "beyond a reasonable doubt."
Guilty.
To paraphrase the famous film dialogue, We don't need no stinking evidence.
The Western public's standard of guilt or innocence is "beyond a reasonable doubt."
Guilty.
So a country, often a third world state with enormous economic challenges, spends billions, possibly tens of billions of dollars on a two week event, then gets stuck with many unusable facilities for an event that's rigged. Now that's what I call the true Olympic spirit.
4
Official Russia has stoutly denied any involvement in the widespread doping of its athletes or any subsequent cover-up. Wow! With that news you could have knocked me over with a feather!
Just as Russia has time and again proven itself to be an unrepentant thugocracy, the IOC is fecklessly toothless, with the roughly equivalent organizational integrity of FIFA or the NFL. Megabucks are involved in today's Olympics. Corruption inevitably follows. Sadly for the Olympic movement and for everyone who loves the games, the well-doped Russian horse has fled the barn and everyone knows it.
The problem is that Russia is almost surely not alone in such nationally-orchestrated systemic cheating. The entire Olympic movement is at risk of global contempt. The movement cannot be sustained until the cancer is excised.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
Just as Russia has time and again proven itself to be an unrepentant thugocracy, the IOC is fecklessly toothless, with the roughly equivalent organizational integrity of FIFA or the NFL. Megabucks are involved in today's Olympics. Corruption inevitably follows. Sadly for the Olympic movement and for everyone who loves the games, the well-doped Russian horse has fled the barn and everyone knows it.
The problem is that Russia is almost surely not alone in such nationally-orchestrated systemic cheating. The entire Olympic movement is at risk of global contempt. The movement cannot be sustained until the cancer is excised.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
3
DNA test the sample to the athlete.
2
Why could the bottles not just be duplicated / counterfeited?
2
I trust Putin. And I trust the Russians. When I look in this man's eyes, I can trust him. Isn't that what Bush Jr. said? Just how dumb was he?
10
He was not as dumb as the stupid US electorate who voted him into the presidency twice. As consistently unintelligent as Bush was, Trump is an intellectual travesty which "trumps" any previous Republican president. It will soon be too late for the press to bring about widely spread commentary on research showing why US voters vote against their own interests.
4
It looks like the tamper-evident nature of the bottles comes entirely from the ratcheting ring in the cap. Send a case of them to a group of mechanical engineers or some good magicians and they'll probably give you a tool or trick for opening them without leaving any evidence. The Amazing Randi or Penn and Teller could probably make a nice show of it.
2
The Olympic Committee should investigate the veracity of Mr. Rodchenkov's claims with a few simple tests. Further debate without verifying/testing his unambiguous claims is pointless. According to the article:
"After his account was published, Dr. Rodchenkov sent a letter to the World Anti-Doping Agency and the I.O.C., calling on them to examine the B samples of Russian athletes from the 2014 Sochi Games, whom he offered to help identify.
"While those samples would not contain traces of steroids, Dr. Rodchenkov told The Times, they would bear evidence of tampering. He said there would be scratch marks around the necks of the bottles, where the metal rings are.
"He also said that common table salt could be found in some of the samples. When he replaced tainted urine with clean urine, he added salt or water to the new urine to match the chemical specifications of the original sample."
"After his account was published, Dr. Rodchenkov sent a letter to the World Anti-Doping Agency and the I.O.C., calling on them to examine the B samples of Russian athletes from the 2014 Sochi Games, whom he offered to help identify.
"While those samples would not contain traces of steroids, Dr. Rodchenkov told The Times, they would bear evidence of tampering. He said there would be scratch marks around the necks of the bottles, where the metal rings are.
"He also said that common table salt could be found in some of the samples. When he replaced tainted urine with clean urine, he added salt or water to the new urine to match the chemical specifications of the original sample."
3
Perhaps the Times can now turn to women's tennis?
5
The naivete of the World Anti-Doping Agency is so astonishing as to be suspicious in and of itself. Anyone who thinks that they have invented a tamper-proof bottle and then allows it to be in non-neutral hands for even a very short time should have their head examined -- and maybe their bank account as well.
122
Points well made. I would add that WADA should have provided 24/7 physical security for the samples.
7
with enough money, you could build a machine that would make new caps; then you could remove the old one with a laser cutter, without damaging the bottle
not that hard, you have, say, one million $ US
not that hard, you have, say, one million $ US
Color me sceptical, but there is a basic flaw to this whole story.
The entire investigation is based on one person's statement. No proof, no facts, no independent investigation, no athletes coming forward saying ' yes I did'. Just the word of one person, who is working with a cinematographer from LA. And that's all the evidence that was accepted as fact.
Last year Rolling Stone did the same thing, and look how good that turned out for them.
Show me that bottles can be opened, show me tainted samples, then I might begin to believe this.
The entire investigation is based on one person's statement. No proof, no facts, no independent investigation, no athletes coming forward saying ' yes I did'. Just the word of one person, who is working with a cinematographer from LA. And that's all the evidence that was accepted as fact.
Last year Rolling Stone did the same thing, and look how good that turned out for them.
Show me that bottles can be opened, show me tainted samples, then I might begin to believe this.
41
One person's statement, Said? Two other potential corroborators are now dead.
4
Well Rodchenkov has called upon WADA to re-examine the 'B' samples, so you may get your wish.
5
Obviously you missed " 60 Minutes " last Sunday night on which a female Russian track gold medalist and her husband who worked in the anti-doping lab both confessed .
4
The Olympics is over, Baseball is over, Football, ditto. Watch sports if it amuses you but never suppose that the games aren't rigged.
31
whatever money touches is ruined
4
The Chinese have demonstrated that anything made can be faithfully copied, from pocket knives to the Mona Lisa. Why not little glass jars with plastic lids? Make entire new ones from stem to stern and fill them with whatever you please!
64
Nothing is tamper proof, the best you can hope for is tamper resistant / tamper evident.
The most obvious method is to simply replace the bottle. It would take a little while to do that, batch number (i.e., the glass bottom for instance), serial number, hidden markings, and accidental markings have to be replicated. Shouldn't take two hours but there is greater risk of exposure by investigators sending in a marked ringer.
Using a vacuum cap extractor (possibly with heat) is one possibility that would explain the time interval (depends on the creep and thermal characteristics of the plastic used); although since the cap doesn't shatter on closing, magnetic extraction might be possible (pull up on the ring and unscrew the cap. Yes that is heck of a steady field.). Cheapest solution might just be to bribe someone at Berlinger to ensure the Olympic batch of bottles was "special".
There are lots of possibilities when a state actor has an unlimited budget.
Pity we probably won't know what Russia did to open the bottles, being this is Russia, it was most likely either simple and prosaic, or astonishingly clever.
The most obvious method is to simply replace the bottle. It would take a little while to do that, batch number (i.e., the glass bottom for instance), serial number, hidden markings, and accidental markings have to be replicated. Shouldn't take two hours but there is greater risk of exposure by investigators sending in a marked ringer.
Using a vacuum cap extractor (possibly with heat) is one possibility that would explain the time interval (depends on the creep and thermal characteristics of the plastic used); although since the cap doesn't shatter on closing, magnetic extraction might be possible (pull up on the ring and unscrew the cap. Yes that is heck of a steady field.). Cheapest solution might just be to bribe someone at Berlinger to ensure the Olympic batch of bottles was "special".
There are lots of possibilities when a state actor has an unlimited budget.
Pity we probably won't know what Russia did to open the bottles, being this is Russia, it was most likely either simple and prosaic, or astonishingly clever.
76
I agree about the magnetic extraction. The steel ring is the lock and it is exerting force downward. Just need a rig that fits over the cap where the ring is located and a magnetic force greater than the force of the steel pushing down thus pulling the steel ring upward. The cap is then in an unlocked state and can easily be unscrewed.
This reminds me of our partially successful effort to raise a Soviet nuclear submarine with the Glomar Explorer .
2
This whole doping issue, including switching these bottles from official to fake, should become part of the Olympics. Gold medal for the winners. I suggested we discuss this with the kids during dinner but my wife told me to go take a hike.
21
That's exactly what the Russians were going for.
But they figured that would give them only one gold. The only way they can get dozens of gold medals was to have it nominally associated with various sports.
But they figured that would give them only one gold. The only way they can get dozens of gold medals was to have it nominally associated with various sports.
They made new bottles that matched the Swiss ones exactly. destroyed the old one opening it. Put the clean stuff in the clone
If they can make nuclear missiles, they can clone the bottle
If they can make nuclear missiles, they can clone the bottle
104
Yes, who sold them the bottle making machine?
I have no doubts what so ever that the FSB and Russian government is capable of opening those bottles.
This is just the kind of "chess" game that gets the Russian blood pumping!
Opening those bottles is, itself, a sport.
This is just the kind of "chess" game that gets the Russian blood pumping!
Opening those bottles is, itself, a sport.
61
In the absence of any objective evidence, and based on both Dr. Rodchenkov's obvious potential to profit enormously from his allegations in the US and the tamper-proof nature of the bottles, it would seem at least prudent to take these allegations with a very large chunk of salt.
Unless of course the overriding goal is to further discredit Russia and the Putin government, by any plausible means.
When these types of lurid and entirely unsupported allegations crop up, I'm reminded of ancient Buddhist advice about watching our minds: "If you throw a stick for a dog, it will just run mindlessly after it, but if you throw a stick for a lion, it looks to see who threw it. Be like the lion."
Unless of course the overriding goal is to further discredit Russia and the Putin government, by any plausible means.
When these types of lurid and entirely unsupported allegations crop up, I'm reminded of ancient Buddhist advice about watching our minds: "If you throw a stick for a dog, it will just run mindlessly after it, but if you throw a stick for a lion, it looks to see who threw it. Be like the lion."
20
Okay, well I don't know where you're buying your chunks of salt, but I can tell you that three Russians admitted to systematic doping in the 60 Minutes special ran recently:
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/60-minutes-report-russian-gold-me...
That together with now the director of the anti-doping lab in Sochi describing in detail the system used to fool the world at the Olympics is evidence Russia cannot overcome. In fact it's looks a little foolish that Russia doesn't admit to the obvious.
I guess all four of the Russians are traitors or turncoats? Certainly the two high ranking anti-doping officials that died a mysterious death immediately after the director fled the country were deemed to be. I'm interested to see how many athletes defect in Rio, that is if there is a Rio for Russia. No one that was involved is really safe at this point.
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/60-minutes-report-russian-gold-me...
That together with now the director of the anti-doping lab in Sochi describing in detail the system used to fool the world at the Olympics is evidence Russia cannot overcome. In fact it's looks a little foolish that Russia doesn't admit to the obvious.
I guess all four of the Russians are traitors or turncoats? Certainly the two high ranking anti-doping officials that died a mysterious death immediately after the director fled the country were deemed to be. I'm interested to see how many athletes defect in Rio, that is if there is a Rio for Russia. No one that was involved is really safe at this point.
46
Rodchenkov was in charge of the Russian doping labs. There would be no better source of information than him. Russia previosly admitted to widespread doping by Russian athletes earlier this year. Read the WADA report.
There's a mountain of evidence supporting these allegations.
There's a mountain of evidence supporting these allegations.
39
Care to explain the sudden, unexplained deaths of two of Rodenchenkov's co-workers once RUSADA came under suspicion? How much salt do we need to sprinkle on these events to make them palatable?
10
Why would you have to open and reuse the bottle with the tainted sample? Wouldn't it be simpler to use a new bottle and just change all the labeling to match the original?
Matching the cap would be tricky but I wouldn't be surprised if a 3D printer could make a duplicate cap with the correct number.
Matching the cap would be tricky but I wouldn't be surprised if a 3D printer could make a duplicate cap with the correct number.
39
Couldn't the unbelievable time, thought and energy that went into planning and conspiring behind the fraudulent urine samples, have been put to better use?
14
I don't understand the "chain of custody" for these samples. If I wanted to protect the integrity of any kind of evidence, I would not place that evidence in the hands of any interested party, and I would require witnesses for each transfer of custody. This is just basic evidence handling. How is it that a nation would be permitted to handle evidence at all, let alone privately?
108
I don't believe the Russians were supposed to touch these samples. The article says Rodchenkov switched into casual dress and did the work late at night.
1
And that may be the solution to the problem. It seems unlikely that in the few weeks before the Olympics, a whole new set of bottles with better anti tampering protection could be developed, and WADA thus has to use the existing (and vulnerable) arrangement. The only way to make that work is to assume that the bottles will be tampered with if they are even briefly out of official Olympic control and to establish ironclad procedures, complete with sealed containers for the bottles and signed sheets transferring custody, to ensure that the "chain of evidence" is maintained intact. There are plenty of existing procedures that could be drawn on as templates.
That seems likely to be the only feasible way of dealing with the problem in the time available. (Of course, it would also require that all existing samples be considered compromised and the testing program be restarted from zero, but that's the price of the freight.)
That seems likely to be the only feasible way of dealing with the problem in the time available. (Of course, it would also require that all existing samples be considered compromised and the testing program be restarted from zero, but that's the price of the freight.)
2
That's apparently correct. But the fact that they were able to get access to them anyway makes clear that the bottles were not appropriately secured. They need to be kept under 24-hour armed guard, with procedures ensuring that the guards themselves are not compromised by bribes or threats. Very high considerations of national pride are at stake, with ruthless leaders such as Vladimir Putin willing to do whatever is necessary to validate those considerations. WADA and the International Olympic Committee have to recognize that reality and act accordingly.
and isn't there some gadfly genius who regularly posts videos about how you can break into padlocks with really simple techniques, like just banging them a certain way ?
on the other hand, at CIA HQ, there is a sculpture that has an encoded message that has resisted the combined efforts of the CIA, NSA and private citizens for 20 years...