I don't see any positive suggestions as to what we apartment dwelling New Yorkers are supposed to do with our garbage if the paper/plastic option disappears. Will we see a dramatic rise in the rat and roach population?
5
If the fee went to the city it would be a good thing but letting the store keep it is a joke. Their employees will be told to use as many bags as possible to run up those nickles. Come on, they're businesses whose sole purpose is to make money and every one of the nickles will help. Makes you wonder about who really runs the city.
4
I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but there sure are a lot of whiners in NYC. I guess that's because NYers are so special. This is an idea that has literally swept the globe - plastic bags are even banned in China. The only real problem with the new law is that 5¢ is too little. As someone who uses my own bags, I resent subsidizing the giveaway of free bags to people who are too lazy or too special.
3
I've ditched using plastic bags two years ago and I'm glad I did it. If something as little as a 5 cent fee helps in reducing the litter of plastic ending up in our our communities and our oceans, then by all means, let's get this show on the road. Too often, we are shortsighted about issues like this. Yes, it'll be a pain in the beginning. But in the long-term, we'll be better off as will our environment.
Something to note—Hawaii is the only state to ban plastic bag usage and has a fee like NYC if someone wants to use a plastic bag. My family took to it easily for a group of people who didn't really think about recycling or reusable bags and now simply carry canvas bags in their cars with them at all times or like my sister who has found a company that sells reusable bags that can be folded into a small pouch the size of a coin purse. One industry will lose money but others may innovate, and produce better alternatives.
Something to note—Hawaii is the only state to ban plastic bag usage and has a fee like NYC if someone wants to use a plastic bag. My family took to it easily for a group of people who didn't really think about recycling or reusable bags and now simply carry canvas bags in their cars with them at all times or like my sister who has found a company that sells reusable bags that can be folded into a small pouch the size of a coin purse. One industry will lose money but others may innovate, and produce better alternatives.
5
This measure NEEDED, since NYC is still TRAVEL+LEISURE's #1 "America's Dirtiest City" (four years running) and a top FORBES "Dirtiest American City" for widespread waste pollution. NYC still WAY BEHIND other U.S. big cities on Green conduct and public spaces protections/maintenance.
4
So if you are on food stamps it is OK to pollute the environment? How is that OK? If you are going to pass a law to harass people, then everyone should be harassed.
3
If I had a car that was my main mode of transportation (as it was before I moved to NYC) I would--grudgingly--carry reusable bags for planned and unplanned shopping trips. However, there is no way in hades I'm doing that now. I ride trains and buses or walk just about everywhere. There is no I'm lugging around a bag. My purse is heavy enough. I'll pay the extra money.
3
In the accompanying photo, what is the architectural monstrosity on the right? I didn't even notice the plastic bag because I was so distracted by the ugliness of the building.
5
Just wait a few years, that tall ugly building will blend right in with a lot of other tall ugly buildings and will no longer stand out the way it does now.
6
After living in Europe briefly in the '80's where bags cost 5c, I've often commented to friends that I don't know why this isn't done on the US. In NJ, some chains have given a 5c refund ... nobody cared. It's only when YOU shell out the money that people think twice.
4
This is an absolute must. This will force and motivate human Society to be more accountable for their environment and surroundings. I've seen numerous plastic bags thrown out where it shouldn't and gradually and ultimately will eradicate this obstruction towards the natural environment. I'm so glad this is being enforced!
3
I frequently have the experience of showing and telling a store clerk that I brought my own reusable bag, but they or another employee puts my groceries in a plastic bag anyway, out of habit and because they rarely listen to (or are able to, with headphones on) customers. And on the occasions when they do acknowledge it, they refuse to bag the groceries, so while I am stretching to reach all of my stuff to bag it, the folks in back of me are grumbling, waiting for me to pay for them. There has to be an educational component to go along with this or it is just going to cause more chaos and ill feelings.
7
"I frequently have the experience of showing and telling a store clerk that I brought my own reusable bag, but they or another employee puts my groceries in a plastic bag anyway, out of habit and because they rarely listen to (or are able to, with headphones on) customers. "
Might it be possible that some of the clerks do not speak or understand English?
Might it be possible that some of the clerks do not speak or understand English?
2
Its a good idea whose time has come. Plastic bags are a pain in the neck for man and wildlife.
6
Create biodegradable, I'm sure there's a way. Another reason to hate NY
5
It's pretty ironic that they show that monstrous building in the background on this story because, honestly, is anyone living in that tomb going to care about a 5 cent tax on plastic bags? Poor people will be hit hardest by this measure and moreover we should be talking about RECYCLING options rather than taxes on bags that no one is talking about doing away with in exchange for more environmentally friendly ones.
4
I hope the enactment of this bill means that NYC stores will have to ask you if you want a bag before immediately shoving everything into multiple bags. I have carried reusable bags around with me for years but 9 times out 10 my items get bagged before I can get a word out, or I even if I manage to say "I don't need a bag" quickly enough, the items get bagged anyway. Even my 5 year old screams out "he doesn't need a bag" when he buys treats because he senses my frustration.
3
Whoa! Here in Naples at the SaveALot grocery, NO bags at all! 10 cents for a plastic or your choice of discarded cardboard boxes on a shelf near the register. Can't resist the one-liner, apropos: A young man goes up to the counter at a drug store and asks for a box of condoms. The clerk replied, Paper or plastic?
2
Plastic bags should be eliminated outright because they are a scourge and the 5 cent fee will only allow customers to accept them and continue contaminating the environment, as it is so convenient and cheap to spend 5 cents instead of carrying one's own bag (preferably in cloth) to the supermarket.
This is only a shameful concession to plastic bag manufacturers who will continue to profit.
This is only a shameful concession to plastic bag manufacturers who will continue to profit.
A five cent charge per bag is not enough to alter behavior. If the charge were ten to twenty cents then the fee could have more of an impact as it does in European countries with similar bans. It's also a missed opportunity for the city to collect additional revenue. Why should this charge only benefit the merchants? Why not fund education? Transportation? Affordable housing? Combating homelessness?
7
@Jordan: Why is it you think the city should be collecting another tax from us? Don't we all pay plenty every day to live here?
The NYS Lottery is supposed to help "fund education" - you can see how well that's working out.
If NYC wants to tax its citizens for improved transportation, we get a fare hike.
Affordable housing - ha, that's a pipe dream in our developer's paradise!
Combating homelessness - aren't we all funding that with the $$ we're paying in existing taxes to live here?
The NYS Lottery is supposed to help "fund education" - you can see how well that's working out.
If NYC wants to tax its citizens for improved transportation, we get a fare hike.
Affordable housing - ha, that's a pipe dream in our developer's paradise!
Combating homelessness - aren't we all funding that with the $$ we're paying in existing taxes to live here?
4
While in our household we've used supermarket plastic bags for garbage, we also return excess bags for recycling. Did anyone consider encouraging recycling instead of taxing New Yorkers? At the very least, the 5 cent charge should be used for environmental purposes, not for the supermarkets. This all sounds like a new investigation opportunity for Preet Baharara.
6
NYT, it would be great if you would make a list of all the positive solutions and examples here in the comments! Otherwise it is groundhog day in every city or state where these necessary environmental measures are being taken.
How about making a list of the negative comments -there are just as many and they are just as valid.
3
Consider lunch: Does this mean that when we get take-out we have to pay extra for a bag so that we don't drop those drooping containers of food on the sidewalk? Just another annoying the way the city wants to take your nickels, and If the administration really meant their environmental argument they would allow paper bags.
3
Yeah, the city council nickels and dimes New Yorkers and gives themselves a 20% pay raise. And we are dumb enough to have elected these turds. What does that say about us?!!!
6
My guess is the fee is a deterrent, not necessarily a revenue generator.
Several years ago the City of Austin Texas prohibited the use of plastic bags by retailers and grocery stores. The population was given around a two year advance notice, and myself and others began to collect reusable cloth bags. Quite often these reusable cloth bags can be obtained for free from businesses promoting their name or product.
For those who did not heed the notice that on date certain the plastic bags will disappear, they complained (of course) and had to purchase cloth bags at the checkout counter - at that time $1.
Actually, I prefer the cloth bags. The cloth bags hold more, strap or bag does not tear, and usually stand upright rather than falling this way or that. Instead of unloading a dozen plastic bags when arriving home - I may have three full cloth bags.
So New Yorkers, start using cloth bags and deprive your city council of the five cent tax they have levied on you!
Several years ago the City of Austin Texas prohibited the use of plastic bags by retailers and grocery stores. The population was given around a two year advance notice, and myself and others began to collect reusable cloth bags. Quite often these reusable cloth bags can be obtained for free from businesses promoting their name or product.
For those who did not heed the notice that on date certain the plastic bags will disappear, they complained (of course) and had to purchase cloth bags at the checkout counter - at that time $1.
Actually, I prefer the cloth bags. The cloth bags hold more, strap or bag does not tear, and usually stand upright rather than falling this way or that. Instead of unloading a dozen plastic bags when arriving home - I may have three full cloth bags.
So New Yorkers, start using cloth bags and deprive your city council of the five cent tax they have levied on you!
14
@Jim: And "instead of unloading those DOZEN plastic bags when arriving home" - so you carried 12 plastic bags in your hands? NO, you put them in your CAR! We don't do that here. We don't drive to the supermarket - we walk there and back.
And, BTW: who's doing more to better the environment, those of you who DRIVE everywhere but righteously use reusable bags, or those of us who WALK everywhere, and use plastic bags?
And, BTW: who's doing more to better the environment, those of you who DRIVE everywhere but righteously use reusable bags, or those of us who WALK everywhere, and use plastic bags?
4
My wife and I have been traveling to Seattle Washington at least three times a year for the last five years since our son moved there fro Brooklyn and they have had a bag law for many years. It is not a problem to provide your own bags in the grocery store or pay the 5 cent fee. The streets are very clean and devoid of plastic bags flying around. I think the City should promote the law by giving out free reusable bags to people in areas where obtaining these bags may be a hardship.
3
I can be given all the free reusable bags you want, but you're not going to carry them around for me--that is the problem with this.
3
Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.
If it were a 5 cent tax on the bags to be collected by the City government to offset the cost of the bags' disposal, perhaps I could understand. But to give the 5 cents to the stores makes no sense.
Why not just ban the bags as they do in San Francisco?
Also, please publish the councilmembers' vote on this bill. We rarely get this important information.
If it were a 5 cent tax on the bags to be collected by the City government to offset the cost of the bags' disposal, perhaps I could understand. But to give the 5 cents to the stores makes no sense.
Why not just ban the bags as they do in San Francisco?
Also, please publish the councilmembers' vote on this bill. We rarely get this important information.
2
In California, people make a habit of keeping reusable bags in their cars, so they're ready for some spontaneous shopping without the extra charge.
Not so easy for New Yorkers, a city of subway riders and walkers.
Not so easy for New Yorkers, a city of subway riders and walkers.
3
Good, it's about time.
1
Why not ban them outright. We did it in California and it's painless. It's easy to get in the habit of BYOB, and the roadsides and redwoods are free of the mess.
2
What does the new plan suggest for kitchen garbage bags - I.e., where general kitchen waste goes until it is put into the compactor? Surely not buying new plastic bags in the store? Has this been discussed or considered?
2
Another foolish proposal by the privileged "do-gooder" class. It will hurt the poor and middle class and do nothing to aid the environment.
5
Is there any surprise the public is fed up with government office holders? Serious problems in our society and government focuses on grocery bags. Is there any proof that this "tax" reduces litter? How ridiculous: Spend $20 on take away food and pay $.05 extra, or spend a $100 at a gourmet shop... 5 cents extra, spend $500 on clothes and pay an extra 5 cents. Is the peer pressure and absurdity supposed to make people guilty enough never to ask for a grocery bag?
3
Serious problems like environmental degradation?
3
Local government picks up your refuse and recycling supported by tax dollars. Seems like it might be appropriate for our local legislature to focus on reducing the costs that single-use plastic bags impose on that system. If this is simply not an issue for you that local government should focus on, then maybe it should just stop collecting refuse and recycling!
2
You can get something called an envirosax bag that rollls up and fits in a man's pocket or a woman's handbag. they last forever; are washable and easily carried about for spur of the moment shopping. I know many people are against the five cent charge but when you think of the cost of disposing of all the plastic bags it is a burden we all need to share for the sake of our children and grandchildren.
2
Oh, get a grip, everyone! I ride the subway everyday too. Everyone in NY carries a totebag, backpack, or briefcase. Buy a Chico bag and throw it in your regular carry on (it folds into a little attached pouch, and weighs an ounce or so) If it's always with you, you don't have to "remember". As far as how NYer's shop - we buy a few things at a time on our way home from work or school each day. Unless you have a car (where you can keep your bags), you're not buying a week's worth of groceries at a time. As for the dog owners- when you're running low on poop bags, take out a few coins from the bottom of your pocket, and get some plastic. No problem.
It's so ironic that people can spend a few bucks every morning in Starbucks or Dunkin' Donuts for coffee, but when it comes to something that's good for the environment that they live in, a nickel is too much!
It's so ironic that people can spend a few bucks every morning in Starbucks or Dunkin' Donuts for coffee, but when it comes to something that's good for the environment that they live in, a nickel is too much!
8
I love to see such passion over lousy plastic bags. Bah hahahah. Human beings will get that they deserve: a planet filled with garbage and the detritus of an irresponsible species.
4
I haven’t been a New Yorker in 38 years, but back there in the 1970’s, living in Murray Hill and shopping at that overpriced Gristede’s on 4th, I think, I was double using those durable paper bags for everything. We didn’t have recycling then, but, as best I could, I was doing it anyway. Properly taught, doncha’ know?
Now, the Mayor whose thumb I am not under, but the 8+ million New Yorkers are, is goin’ charge them a nickel per bag … Paper or Plastic? “Throw the baggage Out.” I believe he’s beating Abe Beame in the “Dumb-Dumb” department.
(I know, I know, I ain’t a voter anymore. But, I was NYC, born and bred.)
Now, the Mayor whose thumb I am not under, but the 8+ million New Yorkers are, is goin’ charge them a nickel per bag … Paper or Plastic? “Throw the baggage Out.” I believe he’s beating Abe Beame in the “Dumb-Dumb” department.
(I know, I know, I ain’t a voter anymore. But, I was NYC, born and bred.)
2
I don't get it! No one has been able to tell me why buying plastic bags to use for my garbage is better than re-using plastic bags I receive for my groceries. What am I missing? Please help me understand!
3
Five cents per grocery bag seems quite reasonable when I compare that cost to the cost of buying "poop" bags to pick up after my dog. A package of three rolls of 15 small bags per roll is $6.39, which works out to about 14 cents per bag (scented and/or biodegradable bags are costlier). Now that I know how much more a smaller bag costs than a grocery bag, economically it would make more sense to buy grocery bags at 5 cents each... however, making the switch to save money will mean that I will be more harmful to the environment because the grocery bags are so much larger.
PS Why does a small poop bag cost so much more than a grocery bag?
PS Why does a small poop bag cost so much more than a grocery bag?
1
"I love the planet and hate plastic bags, but................."
If I heard this once, I heard this a dozen times at Councilmember Laurie Cumbo's forum on the new plastic bag fee last Tuesday. I always knew what was coming next. Namely another reason why the speaker opposed the then proposed, now enacted, fee on plastic bags.
OK, folks, let's get real. How much are you really willing to do to protect the planet for future generations? Anything, you say, as long as it doesn't inconvenience you?
Please stop the nonsense. This is NOT a "tax on the poor", it's an attempt to give everyone an opportunity to decrease the use of plastic bags. It's an attempt to change behavior of everyone, rich and poor alike. Let's just do and quit the whining. Your grandkids will maybe think you're less of a jerk.
If I heard this once, I heard this a dozen times at Councilmember Laurie Cumbo's forum on the new plastic bag fee last Tuesday. I always knew what was coming next. Namely another reason why the speaker opposed the then proposed, now enacted, fee on plastic bags.
OK, folks, let's get real. How much are you really willing to do to protect the planet for future generations? Anything, you say, as long as it doesn't inconvenience you?
Please stop the nonsense. This is NOT a "tax on the poor", it's an attempt to give everyone an opportunity to decrease the use of plastic bags. It's an attempt to change behavior of everyone, rich and poor alike. Let's just do and quit the whining. Your grandkids will maybe think you're less of a jerk.
3
Reading these comments kind of makes me despair: If the residents of a city that is as savvy and wealthy as New York cannot agree that plastic bags are bad and harmful for the environment, if they balk at paying a paltry 5 cents for using them anyway, despite the easy alternatives that are available, what hope is there that these same people would ever get behind meaningful changes to stop global warming and save the planet?
In the end, human beings are incredibly selfish -- and this will be their undoing.
In the end, human beings are incredibly selfish -- and this will be their undoing.
19
"despite the easy alternatives that are available"
Annie, do you commute on NYC transit every day? Do you work full time on a hectic schedule? Do you have room in your daily commute carry bag for canvas bags? Are you buying food for yourself or for a family? Are you in a truly urban city in Deutschland or in the burbs? Context is everything.
Annie, do you commute on NYC transit every day? Do you work full time on a hectic schedule? Do you have room in your daily commute carry bag for canvas bags? Are you buying food for yourself or for a family? Are you in a truly urban city in Deutschland or in the burbs? Context is everything.
6
I like K Henderson's implicit assumption that New York is the only city where people commute by public transit. Not true... there are many dense cities around the world where people use reusable bags. I carry two nylon ones... they fold up into a little pocket and weigh next to nothing. They're also stronger than plastic disposable bags and don't rip.
2
EG, I wasnt suggesting that: I was pointing out that the commenter seemed VERY judgemental while offering no hint about where and how she lives and no details on her "easy alternatives"
Princeton, NJ, has chosen for five years NOT to follow the lead now set by so many other municipalities, communities, states, and nations worldwide. Why is that? No one here seems to understand the oil extraction and the process of producing plastic bags that drain the economy and emit dangerous carbons in the process. Why is that?
Tax the poor, that's the American way. The burden of this new tax will all squarely on those who buy food and carry it home. The rich don't want to pay more taxes so leave capital gains alone, but tax grocery shopping because environmentalism.
1
What took so long?
I have paid that equivalent on the continent for years and years and years.
It's a splendid idea. Another thought: "when I was alive," there were no bottles of water for sale..we had refillable containers. Mayor Bloomberg stopped putting bottled waters on conference tables in city hall and put in a water cooler with cups...good thinking on his part.
I have paid that equivalent on the continent for years and years and years.
It's a splendid idea. Another thought: "when I was alive," there were no bottles of water for sale..we had refillable containers. Mayor Bloomberg stopped putting bottled waters on conference tables in city hall and put in a water cooler with cups...good thinking on his part.
2
Those who call it a "tax" are full of it and they know it. A tax is money collected by the government. The bag fee is just an itemization of something shoppers have always paid for, whether they use it or not.
1
This is a small step into the modern, responsible world.
Go one step further and ban styrofoam.
Go one step further and ban styrofoam.
4
According to the Earth Policy Institute a trillion plastic bags are used each year worldwide. A trillion is a big number. A trillion seconds ago New York was covered by about a mile of ice.
2
Bottle tax, bag tax, tampon tax....4-way payroll tax (Fed, state, city & local).....this is why I left NYC. How do you people pay bills and enjoy life?
3
When I was a child growing up in Caracas, Venezuela, plastic bags were unheard of. Each family had a set of sturdy canvas bags that were routinely carried for shopping in the different open markets that started operating at 4.00 AM, and paper bags were used in bodegas and small neighborhood supermarkets. Housewives carried their own wicker shopping baskets for every day use. And of course, cardboard boxes were provided for bulkier items.
3
I'm thrilled! In addition to a better environment, this will really help the cute-big-bag-for-your-stuff industry. I just gave two cute ones to my Brooklyn-living daughter.
2
Plastic bags may be harmful but they serve a legitimate place in modern city life. I reuse them for garbage and cat litter. When I was once a member of a certain NYC food coop I ran out of these bags so I ordered them online, which is exactly what many will do to get around this ban. Here's what I ordered: http://www.amazon.com/T-Shirt-Carryout-Bags--Thank-Gracias/dp/B0025W9ALG...
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
1
A much better idea than banning them.
It doesn't work in Denmark, so why would it work in NY?
Plastic bags in Denmark at the supermarked now cost up to 40¢ - and we consume more bags than ever! It's become one of the best grossing commodities for any supermarked. Don't take my work for it - use translate.google.com to see for yourself
http://politiken.dk/mad/madnyt/ECE653684/supermarkeder-tjener-millioner-...
What COULD work is a combination of purchased plastic bags and thicker plastic, as this multiplies the number of times a bag is used.
Preferably, in my eyes, plastic bags should be outlawed, fossil fuel and all, but apparently this would be bad for the environment on the CO2 scale, since alternatives like canvas or paper bags make a much larger impression on the environment pr. use compared to plastic - provided that plastic DOES NOT end up in nature, most specifically NOT in the sea!
http://www.plast.dk/fakta/helles-blog/blog/forbud-mod-plastikposer-er-da...
PS: You know the square kitchen counter wipes in garish colours - if you wash them, they come out full of holes? They are made of plastic, and the missing material end up in the oceans as micro beads, slowly replacing the body weight of fish, until they starve to death. If you don't want to use woven cloth, throw the plastic ones out rather than try to wash them.
Plastic bags in Denmark at the supermarked now cost up to 40¢ - and we consume more bags than ever! It's become one of the best grossing commodities for any supermarked. Don't take my work for it - use translate.google.com to see for yourself
http://politiken.dk/mad/madnyt/ECE653684/supermarkeder-tjener-millioner-...
What COULD work is a combination of purchased plastic bags and thicker plastic, as this multiplies the number of times a bag is used.
Preferably, in my eyes, plastic bags should be outlawed, fossil fuel and all, but apparently this would be bad for the environment on the CO2 scale, since alternatives like canvas or paper bags make a much larger impression on the environment pr. use compared to plastic - provided that plastic DOES NOT end up in nature, most specifically NOT in the sea!
http://www.plast.dk/fakta/helles-blog/blog/forbud-mod-plastikposer-er-da...
PS: You know the square kitchen counter wipes in garish colours - if you wash them, they come out full of holes? They are made of plastic, and the missing material end up in the oceans as micro beads, slowly replacing the body weight of fish, until they starve to death. If you don't want to use woven cloth, throw the plastic ones out rather than try to wash them.
2
The dirty little secret about cloth reusable bags is exactly that: they're a breeding ground for germs unless they're washed regularly. Carry home that chicken in a cloth bag? Think twice.
3
Evidence please. This is a bag industry scare tactic.
2
Paper bags can't be re-used as trash bags or shower caps or anything. They rip when they are wet as we are trying to carry things home in the rain and snow and spill things everywhere.
Any "mystery fluid" on the floor of the subway car soaks through paper bags and into reusable canvas bags. There is a lot of mystery fluid on the subways, and if the police see you with your grocery bags on a seat, you might get a ticket. The bags often have to go on the floor. And whatever is on the floor is coming home with you... (ew.)
NYC is not like other places, which is sometimes wonderful and sometimes not so much. It is impractical to never set your groceries down during a long train ride, and the floor of the subway car is dirty in ways that are hard to imagine if you don't live here and ride the subways daily.
I can't believe legislators are receiving salaries, benefits, and pensions for spending their time on this. We have much more serious problems to address.
Any "mystery fluid" on the floor of the subway car soaks through paper bags and into reusable canvas bags. There is a lot of mystery fluid on the subways, and if the police see you with your grocery bags on a seat, you might get a ticket. The bags often have to go on the floor. And whatever is on the floor is coming home with you... (ew.)
NYC is not like other places, which is sometimes wonderful and sometimes not so much. It is impractical to never set your groceries down during a long train ride, and the floor of the subway car is dirty in ways that are hard to imagine if you don't live here and ride the subways daily.
I can't believe legislators are receiving salaries, benefits, and pensions for spending their time on this. We have much more serious problems to address.
1
US expat to the UK - we had all the same dire warnings before this was brought in. The best thing about it is that the 5p goes to charitable causes, not the profit margin of the supermarket. And if you do have to buy your bags, even 10 of them, do you really think the extra 50 cents will break the bank? It's more of a psychological nudge to remind you to bring reusable bags.
Folks can bring reusable totes shopping. That is what we do. Or, they could use bags provided by the retailer, who has the cost of bags marked into their product cost. Now, the retailers get an extra $.05 profit for bags. Thank you, Mr. Bloomberg. You killed three birds with one stone - pander to the greenies; regressive-tax the poor to the profit of retailers; and send bag jobs packing. Ain't government management of the economy grand.
2
I'm more concerned about the overzealous traffic police near the Lincoln Tunnel handing out tickets to people in their cars for being caught in the intersection in a traffic jam. I recently had to drive a family member to a NYC hospital for medical tests for a severe illness. In addition to the tolls, the $40 parking, etc. I had to worry about getting a very expensive ticket and 2 points on my license. We used to live in NYC in an outer borough but moved to NJ 15 years ago. I commute to Manhattan on a bus daily. A nickel charge on my takeout lunch is not going to bankrupt me. But NYC's aggressive money making schemes of nickel and diming everyone is really getting tiresome. NYC is getting to be very unfriendly to out of towners who have no choice but to drive in to go to one of the hospitals. They need more police officers directing traffic near the tunnel instead of turning it into a trap for tickets and points on our licenses.
3
Just pass a 5 cent tax on bank transactions, and ban plastic bags if you don't like them. This is about revenue, not behavior change. It will be a paperwork nightmare, good luck to retailers, because the council would never inconvenience Lord Blankfein with such minutiae.
Would someone please explain why the grocers get to keep the five cent fee? What do they do to deserve this largesse?
The city council should demand they earn the additional income by using it to provide FREE canvas tote bags to customers. When a canvas bag becomes frayed and unusable another FREE one should be provided.
Isn't it about time the general public got some of the "free stuff" we all hear about?
The city council should demand they earn the additional income by using it to provide FREE canvas tote bags to customers. When a canvas bag becomes frayed and unusable another FREE one should be provided.
Isn't it about time the general public got some of the "free stuff" we all hear about?
2
I volunteer at a food pantry in the D.C. suburbs where we used to hand out groceries to pantry clients in paper bags with an outer plastic bag. All our pantry clients are low-income.
A few years ago we did the following:
1) The pantry director bought hard plastic bins, which were marked with permanent numbers.
2) Several weeks before we switched over from bagsplastic outer bags/paper bags to bins, we asked the churches and local civic groups who are our regular donors to donate reusable bags.
3) Also, several weeks before we made the switch, we put up signs on the outer and inner entry doors of the pantry letting our clients know that they would get their groceries in a plastic bin, and it was their job to take the groceries out and put them in their own bags, and return the bins to us. We are in the suburbs, so most of the clients come in either their own cars or on the city-owned bus that picks up people at the local senior citizens housing center (many of our clients are seniors).
4) We got lots of donations of reusable bags and from the very first day, clients used them. There were a few clients that took the groceries and dumped them in the trunks of their vehicles -- that lasted about 2 weeks.
5) Now, everyone knows to bring their reusable bags.
6) The clients are used to it, the pantry doesn't have to go and obtain paper and plastic bags -- and it is better for the environment.
A few years ago we did the following:
1) The pantry director bought hard plastic bins, which were marked with permanent numbers.
2) Several weeks before we switched over from bagsplastic outer bags/paper bags to bins, we asked the churches and local civic groups who are our regular donors to donate reusable bags.
3) Also, several weeks before we made the switch, we put up signs on the outer and inner entry doors of the pantry letting our clients know that they would get their groceries in a plastic bin, and it was their job to take the groceries out and put them in their own bags, and return the bins to us. We are in the suburbs, so most of the clients come in either their own cars or on the city-owned bus that picks up people at the local senior citizens housing center (many of our clients are seniors).
4) We got lots of donations of reusable bags and from the very first day, clients used them. There were a few clients that took the groceries and dumped them in the trunks of their vehicles -- that lasted about 2 weeks.
5) Now, everyone knows to bring their reusable bags.
6) The clients are used to it, the pantry doesn't have to go and obtain paper and plastic bags -- and it is better for the environment.
Well we'll see how long it will will last in Manhattan. It lasted all of 6 weeks in Dallas.
4
I’ve read through a number of the comments below, but won’t get into some of the sillier posts being made. (Other than to say that, no, such a tax is not ‘a tax on the poor’, or ‘liberal nannying’, etc. The comment about New Yorkers being special ‘because there isn’t enough room to carry reusable bags’ – oh, come On...)
What I will say is that such a tax was introduced here in Ireland some years back (and we pay considerably more than $0.05 per bag). What was the result?
The Public accepted it with very little fuss; nobody said anything as silly as ‘it’s an attack on the poor’ (and believe you me, there are a Lot of Very poor people in post-Celtic Tiger Ireland); and plastic bag usage dropped by a very high percentage. Despite a subsequent ‘bounceback’, their usage has been greatly reduced; people have been fine with using reusable bags, and don’t mind paying for plastic bags if necessary.
There are some taxes and charges that The Public will just accept, if they view it to be fair and reasonable, and such was the case with the plastic bag charge here. It was fair to try to cut down our usage; it was fair to put a price point on to help drive that.
There’s no reason to think that New Yorkers (or Americans) can’t pay a similar charge to work towards a better environment for all – and to pay more than a measly $0.05 a bag while they’re at it, which is too low a price point to be particularly effective and drive a lasting change of consumer habits...
What I will say is that such a tax was introduced here in Ireland some years back (and we pay considerably more than $0.05 per bag). What was the result?
The Public accepted it with very little fuss; nobody said anything as silly as ‘it’s an attack on the poor’ (and believe you me, there are a Lot of Very poor people in post-Celtic Tiger Ireland); and plastic bag usage dropped by a very high percentage. Despite a subsequent ‘bounceback’, their usage has been greatly reduced; people have been fine with using reusable bags, and don’t mind paying for plastic bags if necessary.
There are some taxes and charges that The Public will just accept, if they view it to be fair and reasonable, and such was the case with the plastic bag charge here. It was fair to try to cut down our usage; it was fair to put a price point on to help drive that.
There’s no reason to think that New Yorkers (or Americans) can’t pay a similar charge to work towards a better environment for all – and to pay more than a measly $0.05 a bag while they’re at it, which is too low a price point to be particularly effective and drive a lasting change of consumer habits...
Will city sanitation permit dumping garbage into garbage cans for collection without bags? No? So we'll still need to bag garbage right? So instead of reusing shopping bags, we'll now need to buy bags, which doesn't really reduce plastic bag usage but we'll be out more money? How is this supposed to benefit us again?
10
This is supposed to benefit the environment. People need to look at the bigger picture.
However, this is NY. It seems many people here are very old fashioned & do not care about the environment.
I mean people here still litter!!
Wake up & care about more than just yourselves!
However, this is NY. It seems many people here are very old fashioned & do not care about the environment.
I mean people here still litter!!
Wake up & care about more than just yourselves!
While your point my have some validity for you it doesn't for society as a whole. If you look at the stats of the percentage of plastic bags that get reused or recycled you'll see it's extremely low. Plastic does not degrade or even stay in it's same form such as concrete, granted concrete will actually erode after awhile if exposed, but rather break down and spread it's nasty nature through the environment including the food chain. Los Angeles banned plastic bags ages ago and you know what, the city is doing fine and now we have less trash in the city. Also, all the clean up of plastic bags isn't free, somebody has to be paid to remove them from the gutters etc.
1
The City Council here in Dallas tried imposing a 5 cent plastic bag fee...it lasted all of 5 months and was a royal pain to everyone concerned. At least here in Dallas most of us have cars and we could try to keep moving the cloth bags to our cars to have them ready for the next time we shopped. I am just trying to picture the average New Yorker hauling 2-3 of those canvas bags around with them all day just to have them when they pick up some groceries on the way home at night.
1
The United States is one of the most wasteful countries in the world. Why can't Americans do a little for the environment, and more especially New Yorksers? We in California passed a similar bill and it is going just fine, and the waste has been reduced. We are all happier for it. Really, New Yorkers, you are being selfish, ridiculous, and irresponsible.
1
Get rid of your car and walk around carrying empty bags all the time then tell me how you feel.
1
Wow! Kinda slow NYC. The west coast and Canada have been getting "out" of plastic bags for years. Most folks carry their own cloth or heavy bags to reuse.
1
Like most Americans, I have depended on plastic bags for as long as I can remember. I too felt little guilt--at least I would use each one twice (for my dog, trash, etc.). Enough! If you don't think the use of plastic bags in a city of 8.3 million people has a far-reaching impact, you haven't seen the bottom of the ocean. Google 5 Gyres. Americans are very late in addressing this issue. Sure, maybe this one step won't save the world, but it helps. Just because you can't do everything doesn't mean you shouldn't do something. DO something.
I never expected to say this but "Thank you, New York City Council."
I never expected to say this but "Thank you, New York City Council."
1
A nickel won't break the bank but to institute this surcharge to promote recycling of these bags is misdirected. Shoppers are lucky to make it home without the bag tearing along the way...let alone be able to reuse it. Many merchants use bags that are not durable enough which is why many stores just routinely double bag everything. Are consumers then going to pay double the amount because merchants use paper thin bags? If the intent of this "tax" is to impact the environment then the funds should be appropriated to the NYC EPA rather than be kept by retailers.
Five cents! Move to California where you'll pay 25 cents a bag!
Nonetheless, California is still one of the most beautiful and unpolluted states in all of America. 25 cents is worth it.
Nonetheless, California is still one of the most beautiful and unpolluted states in all of America. 25 cents is worth it.
I really hope this bill extends to bodegas, but if it is like San Francisco's bill, it won't. Most of the bags I pickup in the street daily are the black ones from bodegas, like the one down the street from me that gives a bag to every kid who comes in from the school across the street. These are the bags that get tossed on the ground to blow freely. The bags that people receive at the grocery store make it home with them to at least be stored somewhere that they don't roam the streets at the mercy of the wind.
This is a good tax, now add a new tax on sugary drinks and financials transactions and we are getting somewhere.
NO tax is a good tax.
3
How about a tax on all animal products. The production of animals for food is the number one contributor to ecological destruction, and here we are fussing over plastic bags. I'd love to see a politician really address climate change in a substantive manner by going after the consumers of animal products. I mean, it is absurd to imagine that putting your meat, dairy and eggs into a reusable bag is going to have any really substantive effect on the climate. But of course, most people don't care enough about the environment to make the real life changes that will make a difference and also end the slaughter and abuse of animals. We live in a very large city, at least in my building, we are required to put are trash in plastic bags. Not sure how people dispose of their trash without putting it in something first. As it is, I barely seem to have enough Rite Aide bags for the trash. Paper bags, of course take a lot more resource to produce than plastic. And the bags some people actually buy for trash are thicker, stronger and thus of course far more resource depleting than the paper thin bags from the drug store that work perfectly for the trash. On the few occasions that I have had extra plastic bags accumulating, I have simply taken them with me to the store and reused them.
2
This law is very similar to laws passed in San Francisco, Washington D.C. the suburbs of D.C. and other places.
It is amazing how quickly everyone adjusts and the behavior becomes normal. People acclimate to carrying multiple bags and if you don't use a car your grocery shopping habits may become more regular.
Even after my family left the D.C. area to move to southwest Virginia (where plastic bags are handed out like compliments at a company office party) we still use our reusable bags for all of our grocery shopping.
Once the habit is formed it is easy to repeat, and it is terrific for the environment and the appearance of every community.
I would not call this a micromanagement of citizens, this is simply taxing a item that is destructive to its surrounding and previously held no cost to the consumer.
If you are in LOVE LOVE LOVE with your plastic bags or any disposable bag then pony up the two dollars a month and help support efforts to clean up your neighborhood.
p.s. My family has been using reusable bags for three years now and nobody has ever gotten sick. If you are hauling around a chicken carcass in your bag then do the logical thing and wash it out.
It is amazing how quickly everyone adjusts and the behavior becomes normal. People acclimate to carrying multiple bags and if you don't use a car your grocery shopping habits may become more regular.
Even after my family left the D.C. area to move to southwest Virginia (where plastic bags are handed out like compliments at a company office party) we still use our reusable bags for all of our grocery shopping.
Once the habit is formed it is easy to repeat, and it is terrific for the environment and the appearance of every community.
I would not call this a micromanagement of citizens, this is simply taxing a item that is destructive to its surrounding and previously held no cost to the consumer.
If you are in LOVE LOVE LOVE with your plastic bags or any disposable bag then pony up the two dollars a month and help support efforts to clean up your neighborhood.
p.s. My family has been using reusable bags for three years now and nobody has ever gotten sick. If you are hauling around a chicken carcass in your bag then do the logical thing and wash it out.
10
It seems a tax would do more to help the environment than giving the extra charge to the grocer. is your law a tax or extra grocery charge?
I am thrilled and amazed that this will finally become a reality; I've been carrying a ChicoBag™ with me at all times for years, and have been despondent to see that it just hasn't caught on with the vast majority of people.
I do keep a collection of plastic bags at home, because they are useful for many things—such as carrying out the compost so I can leave the bucket at home. I've been taking my torn and unusable plastic bags to the corner supermarket for recycling, but it seems I'm among the very few people who do this.
I still feel recycling is busywork for a doomed planet, but this is a small piece of progress.
I do keep a collection of plastic bags at home, because they are useful for many things—such as carrying out the compost so I can leave the bucket at home. I've been taking my torn and unusable plastic bags to the corner supermarket for recycling, but it seems I'm among the very few people who do this.
I still feel recycling is busywork for a doomed planet, but this is a small piece of progress.
3
Plastic Garbage is the enemy then ? Ok, How many dollars will the Tons of Poly Vinyl Chloride, Siding, decking, lumber be charged as it comes from house construction ? After all manufacturing PVC is one of the most toxic manufacturing schemes there is. Then we have Styrofoam insulation, coffee cups, food packaging boxes etc. If a doggy doo collector needs the grocery bag, and is penalized for cleaning up after Fido and Rover with a 5 cent charge, think of the money a house sized pile of Vinyl Siding will cost harry Homeowner. The possibilities are endless.
With bills like this one in NYC, buy stock in Clorox, the owner of "Glad" plastic trash bags. As a shareholder, it won't be your responsibility to recycle the bags...you'll just make money off them...and off this law.
Note, though, that Clorox's share price is already high now. Capitalism...you gotta love it!
Note, though, that Clorox's share price is already high now. Capitalism...you gotta love it!
1
I was thinking that what a great excuse just to leave the dog poop on the street, but instead I'll just grab a fistful of produce bags each time I go to the super market.
3
Bit cocky. You can buy biodegradable poop bags for a few bucks. Why cheap out on the environment.
2
well i guess i will have to go for a lawsuit since it is obviously discriminatory...... "Those buying groceries with food stamps are also exempt from paying the fee." not for nothing, and i do have sympathy for those who need food stamps... but lets keep it fair across the board!!!
1
the revolution, my sir ? No just a attempt form new york to leave the third world. Every time i open my backpack to put the groceries inside and say in a gentle way, "no sacs please", the cashier looks at me as if i come from Mars.
It is about time, that NYC starts to do this.
Had to go to DNAInfo to get the start date of this (10/1/16). Loved the overly ornate intro, but wanna know the logistics, too. Thanks, NY Times!
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20160505/civic-center/city-council-appr...
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20160505/civic-center/city-council-appr...
We'll just shop outside the city. Problem solved
2
Every action can result in unexpected side effects. If the costs go up in NYC more people will shop outside NYC as shown by the number of NYC residents shopping at Ikea in NJ.
1
Surely worth a trip to NJ to save a nickel or two.
FINALLY! This has been going on in Europe & Canada for decades. Our country is once again so behind in doing the right thing for the environment..so what if it's a little inconvenience to save/ reuse bags. After living in those countries you just get used to it and it's no big deal. Just a part of the routine of life. Good!
1
Bring your own bags!!
What about all the nickle bottle deposits we never see again but supports the recyclers? What if what you buy requires 4 bags, do you bring 4 bags or pay a nickle a bag? I don't think the bags are the problem, but rather the behavior of some people. Newspapers used to get caught in the wind and blow all over the streets. You don't see that anymore.
3
In Germany, they don't give out bags of any kind. Bring your own or hold the stuff in your hands.
There will soon be a black market for plastic and paper bags by selling used bags for half the cost.....
1
Before making predictions you ought to check with the many, many locations with bag laws that have had no such problems.
So now Whole Paycheck gets to keep even more of mine?
1
I'm already carrying a backpack around the canyons of Manhattan and now you want me to carry more stuff?! Ridiculous solution that only adds to the poorer person's burden.
2
Quit whining. A bag weighs a very small fraction of the groceries they contain. If you can carry the groceries you can carry the bag to put them in. Better yet, put the groceries in your backpack.
The photo shows a terrible blight on the environs. And the bag is ugly, too.
Who thought that tower attractive?
Who thought that tower attractive?
Hooray!
The next item to condemn to history is the toxic single use styrofoam peanut!
The next item to condemn to history is the toxic single use styrofoam peanut!
In some countries, like the Netherlands, they'll just look at you weird if you don't bring your own bag to the grocery store. Only in this country are we so lazy and wasteful that we need to be given disposable plastic bags every time we go shopping.
In Amsterdam as well as most of Europe you get charged for plastic bags at supermarkets. The solution was to buy a reusable cloth bag that we pack and use for our annual trips to Europe. Not too difficult. I live in the Bronx and use the reusable bags all the time because I got tired of the bag of bags under the sink that I eventually have to get rid of.
I wish the Mayor and the council was busy building affording houses and making MTA and cabs cheaper since gas costs are so lo, not in inventing new ways to skin us for money!!!! I always reuse the bags as trash bags.
1
Economists have an old saying: "there's no such thing as a free lunch."
You're not getting "free" bags with your groceries right now. Merchants are not giving them to you out of kindness. Even if it's not itemized on your receipt, they are passing the costs on to you.
Now you might ask: if the cost of the bag will not be included in retail prices, shouldn't that mean that prices should go down commensurate with the bag fees? Probably not in the short term, but yes in the long term, because businesses set prices in part based upon what they need to charge to cover their costs.
If the wholesale price of milk goes up 10 cents a gallon, for example, your local supermarket would be more willing to delay an increase in retail prices in order to stay competitive with the store across the street, because their net operating costs will be lower after the bag fees.
In the end, I don't believe anyone will be paying significantly higher prices because of this. But the key is that people THINK they will be paying more, and that's a great thing if you want to discourage plastic bag use. We use an obscene number of them for no reason. Why do workers at my local supermarket feel the need to double bag EVERYTHING? And if you're going to the store just to pick up an avocado, why exactly do you need a bag for it?
You're not getting "free" bags with your groceries right now. Merchants are not giving them to you out of kindness. Even if it's not itemized on your receipt, they are passing the costs on to you.
Now you might ask: if the cost of the bag will not be included in retail prices, shouldn't that mean that prices should go down commensurate with the bag fees? Probably not in the short term, but yes in the long term, because businesses set prices in part based upon what they need to charge to cover their costs.
If the wholesale price of milk goes up 10 cents a gallon, for example, your local supermarket would be more willing to delay an increase in retail prices in order to stay competitive with the store across the street, because their net operating costs will be lower after the bag fees.
In the end, I don't believe anyone will be paying significantly higher prices because of this. But the key is that people THINK they will be paying more, and that's a great thing if you want to discourage plastic bag use. We use an obscene number of them for no reason. Why do workers at my local supermarket feel the need to double bag EVERYTHING? And if you're going to the store just to pick up an avocado, why exactly do you need a bag for it?
11
I must add that merchants always appreciate that I carry my own bag with me when I shop at their stores; for literally years I've been saying "Nobagnobagnobagnobagnobag" when a clerk automatically goes to put my purchases in a plastic or paper bag.
Interestingly, the food co-op near me only puts groceries in a bag if you ask for it—since they depend on members donating their used bags for this purpose—and for a few years there has been a 12¢ charge there for a Bio-bag for produce purchases. This has encouraged members and shoppers to bring their own bags; I hope that with this increased awareness, even more people will bring their own bags.
Interestingly, the food co-op near me only puts groceries in a bag if you ask for it—since they depend on members donating their used bags for this purpose—and for a few years there has been a 12¢ charge there for a Bio-bag for produce purchases. This has encouraged members and shoppers to bring their own bags; I hope that with this increased awareness, even more people will bring their own bags.
2
I already use my own bags - been using a few for a long time & stronger than the cheap plastic bags the market gives you.
1
Absolute stupidity. New York is not California. When a New Yorker goes to Fairway, he doesn't bring his SUV with him, full of bags. A New Yorker goes to Fairway on the way home from work, between the subway and home. What, so now we're supposed to stick plastic bags in our pockets all day just in case we need to stop at Fairway on the way home?
2
I'm crying for the plight of you poor NYers and your special needs.
Oh so many complainers. Oh yes but then it is NYC. Check back in one year and see the outcome. Everyone will like it. Yes, we do have to regulate bad behavior.
1
New Yorkers are gouged left and right. Do you really think 5c is going to change anything? Charge 50c and maybe we'll see something.
1
In CA most locations will be charging a quarter a bag soon.
In Ottawa Canada we have done this for few years. You either pay 5 cents or bring your own reusable bags. No big deal.
1
The fee exists in other states. It works as a deterrent and plastic is terrible for the environment. In NY people run around with bags hanging off their shoulders, just add a few little cloth bags to the mix and you're done.
11
Pronto the article title needs to be changed
Paper bags are 5 cents too.
Yes really.
The law makes no sense from any standpoint that I can see. And the stores keep the money. Very disappointingly done NYC City Council. Very disappointingly done.
5
With you on that one, but explain to me why paper bags cost money too? They decompose.....
1
What's the issue with a paper bag? By comparison to plastic it's harmless.
10
There is the minor point of cutting down a load of trees unnecessarily, but perhaps that point is lost on you in Ohio.
Paper bags costs more energy and water to produce, and then consume lots of energy and water when recycled.
To all the commenters from other cities: Please stop telling us how well this law works where you live. New York is different. We don't shop the way you do.
We don't drive cars. Our grocery stores don't have parking lots. Our stores don't even allow us to roll our shopping carts out to the curb. Many of our grocery stores have such narrow aisles that they prohibit the use of granny-type personal shopping carts.
We HAVE to use bags here, and we can't just keep our canvas bags or our granny-carts in our cars like you do. We can't use paper bags, because you can't carry two paper bags when you're walking home from the grocery store. We need handles.
Grocery shopping is already such a pain in New York that many people have switched to Fresh Direct's online delivery service. So many people have switched that entire grocery chains have shut down in the past year (Food Emporium, Waldbaum's, A&P, Pathmark). The added cost of buying plastic bags (because, really, nobody here is going to carry empty bags in his pocket all day) will make this worse. More local grocery stores will close. Instead of plastic bags in trees, we'll have even more Fresh Direct trucks blocking traffic and spewing fumes all day as they sit double-parked on the avenue.
We don't drive cars. Our grocery stores don't have parking lots. Our stores don't even allow us to roll our shopping carts out to the curb. Many of our grocery stores have such narrow aisles that they prohibit the use of granny-type personal shopping carts.
We HAVE to use bags here, and we can't just keep our canvas bags or our granny-carts in our cars like you do. We can't use paper bags, because you can't carry two paper bags when you're walking home from the grocery store. We need handles.
Grocery shopping is already such a pain in New York that many people have switched to Fresh Direct's online delivery service. So many people have switched that entire grocery chains have shut down in the past year (Food Emporium, Waldbaum's, A&P, Pathmark). The added cost of buying plastic bags (because, really, nobody here is going to carry empty bags in his pocket all day) will make this worse. More local grocery stores will close. Instead of plastic bags in trees, we'll have even more Fresh Direct trucks blocking traffic and spewing fumes all day as they sit double-parked on the avenue.
28
Deblasio is an awful mayor imo.
This is a myopic response to what is actually a huge problem. I have a reusable bag. I have reusable produce bags as well. For over ten years (since a trip to Prague where one pays for bags, is when I started) I have carried groceries in a reusable bag. I drink bottled water in glass and manage to carry three bottles plus other glass groceries in my reusable bag or in my tote (purse). I don't mind the hassle (if one could call it that) because I think more about the effects of my 'sacrifice' (which it isn't) on the environment than on short-term convenience that affects only MYSELF. I live in Brooklyn, where shopping for food can be done often, buying fewer
groceries at a time. Any argument FOR these egregious bags is an ignorant and selfish one. They play a huge role in killing the future. Cause and effect people! CAUSE AND EFFECT. PS: (Load bearing exercise prevents bone loss)
groceries at a time. Any argument FOR these egregious bags is an ignorant and selfish one. They play a huge role in killing the future. Cause and effect people! CAUSE AND EFFECT. PS: (Load bearing exercise prevents bone loss)
This new tax will particularly harm nyc supermarkets in Queens and the Bronx. Shoppers will go over the city line to avoid this nonsense. I live near a big stop-n-shop. I never see plastic bags in the trees or blowing around their parking lot.
1
You can buy a reusable bag for 99 cents at pretty much any grocery store. It's really not a big deal people to bring a few bags with you to the store. As for the "negative health impact" of reusable bags -that's grasping at straws. I've use the same bags for years with no negative health consequences - you just wash them out like anything else if they get dirty. Are New Yorkers really that lazy that they can't bring a bag to help save the environment? And if you forget or make an unexpected stop at the store, 5 cents is a pittance.
Honestly though, I don't think anyone, food stamps or otherwise, should be exempt. This is how people learn - by paying a consequence. If you can remember your EBT card and your coupons, you can remember a reusable bag. You don't save the environment by only having some people change their behavior, it needs to be universal.
I also think at least part of the money raised should go to the environment. It shouldn't be a fundraiser for private businesses.
Honestly though, I don't think anyone, food stamps or otherwise, should be exempt. This is how people learn - by paying a consequence. If you can remember your EBT card and your coupons, you can remember a reusable bag. You don't save the environment by only having some people change their behavior, it needs to be universal.
I also think at least part of the money raised should go to the environment. It shouldn't be a fundraiser for private businesses.
24
Stop complaining about being required to use reusable bags. First of all, the comments about the contaminants in reusable bags is just more whining. Buy cloth bags. Problem solved. Second, the bag tax works. We've been under it in DC for 6 years and guess what! It works! So stop whining, invest in some cloth, reusable bags that can be folded small and carried with you to work. Whine whine whine about how you stop at the store on the way home and don't have the "luxury" of storing them in your SUV. How hard is it to carry one with you. Whine whine whine. Be prepared! We walk to work here in DC as well. And the bag tax has significantly reduced if not eliminated the plastic crap in the Potomac.
29
There is no tax or fee that a New York politician does not like. Only in New York would a political hack say "it's supposed to be painful." Another reason why this one party town needs reform.
10
Government, like bags, should be free.
There is a way to limit costs. How? Do all (or most) of your shopping on the internet. Avoid brick and mortar stores. Of course that will result in New Yorkers spending their money outside of NYC. Less buying in the city, workers being laid off, less taxes, less money for essential services. Charging a nickel for a bag? Discourage people from purchasing items from NYC retailers? Not a good idea. Not what the NYC Council should be doing. No, no, no.
9
Hard to believe eight people recommended this comment. Seriously? Instead of buying from a store that receives centralized deliveries, that you can walk to, and carry your purchases home from with re-usable containers, you recommend having your groceries personally truck-delivered to your home, in boxes that will have plastic or foam padding inside, to avoid paying a nickel for a bag if you need one?? (Not to mention that you might have to pay for the delivery.) It boggles my mind how clueless some people are.
Reading all of the panicked comments from NYC folks reminds me of the first skeptical reactions here in San Francisco a few years ago when we banned plastic bags and initiated a 10¢ charge for paper bags. Now everyone brings canvas or reusable bags, and buys the 10¢ paper bags only as needed for trash, recycling, etc. The city is also close to an 80% reduction in landfill, and it was not all that painful in the end. Go for it.
45
When people use these as trash bags, and most of us do, they have no net impact on the amount of plastic-bag-garbage produced.
Also, we have a lot of rain and snow in NYC, no cars, and long commutes. It gets very cold. It is nothing like San Francisco, at least as far as the elements are concerned. Paper bags rip as soon as they get wet and are an incredibly bad idea for carrying anything on the subway.
Really, our legislators' time should be spent on things like raising the minimum wage, not this kind of time wasting nonsense. All it does is enable certain legislators to hide from the real issues.
Also, we have a lot of rain and snow in NYC, no cars, and long commutes. It gets very cold. It is nothing like San Francisco, at least as far as the elements are concerned. Paper bags rip as soon as they get wet and are an incredibly bad idea for carrying anything on the subway.
Really, our legislators' time should be spent on things like raising the minimum wage, not this kind of time wasting nonsense. All it does is enable certain legislators to hide from the real issues.
How are the SF homeless supposed to clean up after themselves if they don't have 10 cents to buy a bag with? And there is no way bags are 80% of SF trash.
Stay is SF with your earthquakes and all (I lived there too). NYer lug around enough stuff reusable bags won't be one of them. A lawsuit based on penalty for the poor is in order.
1
Just another highly regressive tax on the poor with the added kicker of the funds not going to the city. Well done do gooders! Well done.
25
Huh? Bags be free because there are poor people in NY? Do you think the merchant gets them for free? The merchant's costs get passed along to the consumet one way or anotjer. Giving away bags just unfairly shifts the cost to the people who bring their own.
Before I moved to NYC, I always brought resusable bags. But since moving here, I stopped. Why? Because in my neighborhood at least, grocery stores hate reusable bags. They're harder to pack so they slow things down, and there's already always a line. So now, to save the fee, I'll start bringing my own bags, and the baggers and cashiers--and especially the people behind me in line--will hate me for it.
11
New Yorkers love to be in a hurry and harass the slowpokes. Take it easy, they will adjust.
Some people may not think it's a big deal but try being a nickel short on your MetroCard, at the grocery store or toll. You're not going anywhere until you cough up that nickel. Many of us throw out our garbage on a daily basis in order to prevent vermin from becoming our roommates. It will be fun taking up the hobby of training rats on respecting personal spaces. The plastic bag is a perfect size as opposed to those 13 gallon bags.
Most of us don't drive home after work or ever; we take the train. Last I checked, it is an environmentally friendly way of traveling. The train is packed enough, now we're going to be padding ourselves with reusable bags too? It is quite ironic hearing suburbanites harping about their reusable bags as they toss them in the back of their oversized SUVs.
Most of us don't drive home after work or ever; we take the train. Last I checked, it is an environmentally friendly way of traveling. The train is packed enough, now we're going to be padding ourselves with reusable bags too? It is quite ironic hearing suburbanites harping about their reusable bags as they toss them in the back of their oversized SUVs.
26
Why not use a deposit system? 10 cents per bag, which can be returned for a deposit.
8
Why limit it to plastic grocery bags. Why not start having department stores charge for their plastic and paper shopping bags. What about the sidewalk food and produce vendors who provide plastic bags when one makes a purchase. Let's not forget to include the news and candy stand concessions in office buildings and the home newspaper delivery services which wrap the paper in a plastic bag on rainy days. AND, the office buildings/stores which provide plastic bags for dripping umbrellas on rainy days.
9
The fee on the shopping bags is ridiculous. It's not because I don't support such an action in principle (I do), but because it's the sort of toothless policy that de Blasio - hopefully a one-term mayor - is known for.
The fee goes back to the store owners. So it's not a tax. The shopkeeper keeps the $.05. So each storeowner gets to charge us an extra nickel just because. If the fee were a tax that the city used for whatever environmental policy it wished to conduct, it would make infinitely more sense. But de Blasio is about not ticking off anyone (because when he does, he always loses), so instead we pay an extra nickel at the store for no reason whatsoever.
And those on food stamps are exempt from this fee? Why is that? If anyone wants to avoid the five-cent fee, they can bring their own bag to the store, no? Do people on food stamps not have their own bags? they don't have to be the same fancy canvas bags yuppies use. They can bring a plastic bag. Why do we need to nanny the poor? I am all about public assistance of those without means, but this is patronizing nanny state garbage. If the city's intention is for New Yorkers to be more environmentally responsible, such incentives should apply to ALL New Yorkers. You can't tell me people on food stamps don't have a plastic bag of their own laying around the house if they want to avoid the fee.
The fee goes back to the store owners. So it's not a tax. The shopkeeper keeps the $.05. So each storeowner gets to charge us an extra nickel just because. If the fee were a tax that the city used for whatever environmental policy it wished to conduct, it would make infinitely more sense. But de Blasio is about not ticking off anyone (because when he does, he always loses), so instead we pay an extra nickel at the store for no reason whatsoever.
And those on food stamps are exempt from this fee? Why is that? If anyone wants to avoid the five-cent fee, they can bring their own bag to the store, no? Do people on food stamps not have their own bags? they don't have to be the same fancy canvas bags yuppies use. They can bring a plastic bag. Why do we need to nanny the poor? I am all about public assistance of those without means, but this is patronizing nanny state garbage. If the city's intention is for New Yorkers to be more environmentally responsible, such incentives should apply to ALL New Yorkers. You can't tell me people on food stamps don't have a plastic bag of their own laying around the house if they want to avoid the fee.
11
I don't mind using reusable bags I have an issue with the constituents who are on public assistance not having to purchase the bags. They buy groceries from the same store but the hard working families have to pay for the bag, we need a break too.
16
I think your comment sums up the single greatest divide between America, and the rest of ‘The West’: namely, criticising the poor/unemployed.
It is precisely that people are poor/unemployed that they should be given any such break that they can get – and, let’s not forget, you’re complaining about paying $0.05 a bag, whereas someone on welfare pays nothing. And That’s what you feel is worth complaining about? Seriously?!
Look. I’m struggling to make ends meet; very much living paycheque to paycheque, with all kinds of things that I can’t afford to do, as well as bills I have to fork out for. But the notion of picking on those with even less than me – even though the unemployed here pay such a charge – well, that would seem to be the definition of being petty and mean-spirited. (I've been jobless before, on a number of occasions, so I totally empathise with those trying to get by in that way.)
I have absolutely no problem with Society – or hard-working people, like you and I – paying more to support/help those at the bottom, because that’s what Society is, and how it should function. Otherwise, the mean sniping at those with less who are getting some help, or exemptions, simply reinforces division and inequality, and a sink-or-swim-and-Screw-You mentality.
No ‘hard working families’ are going to fall apart because they’re paying for a bag, while others don’t. None.
It is precisely that people are poor/unemployed that they should be given any such break that they can get – and, let’s not forget, you’re complaining about paying $0.05 a bag, whereas someone on welfare pays nothing. And That’s what you feel is worth complaining about? Seriously?!
Look. I’m struggling to make ends meet; very much living paycheque to paycheque, with all kinds of things that I can’t afford to do, as well as bills I have to fork out for. But the notion of picking on those with even less than me – even though the unemployed here pay such a charge – well, that would seem to be the definition of being petty and mean-spirited. (I've been jobless before, on a number of occasions, so I totally empathise with those trying to get by in that way.)
I have absolutely no problem with Society – or hard-working people, like you and I – paying more to support/help those at the bottom, because that’s what Society is, and how it should function. Otherwise, the mean sniping at those with less who are getting some help, or exemptions, simply reinforces division and inequality, and a sink-or-swim-and-Screw-You mentality.
No ‘hard working families’ are going to fall apart because they’re paying for a bag, while others don’t. None.
The middle-class New Yorker is the endless sucker for the progressives pipe dreams.
1
Finally. When I moved to the Netherlands in 2000 we went for our first grocery shopping excursion and found out fast that the major grocery chain Albert Heijn simply didn't even carry bags of any type. We walked out with our groceries in the cart and piled them into the trunk. Then we bought reusable canvas bags that lasted for years.
It's time NY. Just stop carrying bags in grocery stores and people will figure it out.
It's time NY. Just stop carrying bags in grocery stores and people will figure it out.
19
"We walked out with our groceries in the cart and piled them into the trunk."
Folks in NYC dont grocery shop with a car with a trunk that is sitting in a parking lot, etc. Not at all similar scenario.
Folks in NYC dont grocery shop with a car with a trunk that is sitting in a parking lot, etc. Not at all similar scenario.
4
Yes, it is similair, in the Netherlands many people travel by bike, by foot and by public transport. There are resuable bags and you can also take a paper box (like a box for canned beans) from the store for free and use that.
A, sure but the point is that NYC isnt like Northern Europe cities at all -- whether one talks about how one uses cars or bikes in Northern Europe. Totally different scenario in very different cities. New Yorkers would LOVE to have the bike culture that you describe but riding a bike in NYC is taking your life into your hands. Dont even get me started how hard it is to park a bike in NYC once you get to your destination.
It's an absolute myth that paper bags are more benign environmentally. Among other things:
1) The paper manufacturing process is highly toxic as well as energy and water intensive, much more so than with plastic.
2) The bags are significantly heavier and therefore require more energy to transport, as well as doing more cumulative damage to roads.
3) They're not as durable as plastic so have less re-use potential. They're also not as "stuffable", so are less likely to be carried around.
Not that plastic is harmless, or cloth for the matter, but on balance, disposable paper bags might be the worst. The best you can do is use heavier duty re-usable bags which, contrary to another common myth, are not unsanitary if used smartly.
See more details below.
https://ecomyths.org/2014/05/27/myth-paper-bags-are-greener-than-plastic/
1) The paper manufacturing process is highly toxic as well as energy and water intensive, much more so than with plastic.
2) The bags are significantly heavier and therefore require more energy to transport, as well as doing more cumulative damage to roads.
3) They're not as durable as plastic so have less re-use potential. They're also not as "stuffable", so are less likely to be carried around.
Not that plastic is harmless, or cloth for the matter, but on balance, disposable paper bags might be the worst. The best you can do is use heavier duty re-usable bags which, contrary to another common myth, are not unsanitary if used smartly.
See more details below.
https://ecomyths.org/2014/05/27/myth-paper-bags-are-greener-than-plastic/
4
Never mind unsanitary . A few years ago it was discovered that those reusable bags you buy in many stores are tainted with heavy metal contaminants . Before requiring people to stop using plastic in order to take care of the environment , why not make sure that the alternative is safe enough to take care of the people.
1
This legislation benefits the environment and saves NYC taxpayers over $10M a year. All of us, including those who find the nickel a bag a hardship, will benefit rom more municipal services afforded through these savings. If we are to thrive as a global community, we have to shift our thinking from convenience to survival. This plastic bag fee is a small step in that general direction.
7
Rather than exempt people on food stamps from the bag fee, DC went to low-income neighborhoods and gave away good, reusable bags for the first month during which the bag tax (yes, it's a tax and the money goes into DC's coffers) was in effect. The net effect was that people really did start re-using bags, and local stream cleanups saw a rapid decrease in the number of plastic bags volunteers had to fish out of our waterways.
I have no idea why NYC is letting stores keep the bag fees. In DC stores still pay us a nickel for each reusable bag we fill with groceries.
I have no idea why NYC is letting stores keep the bag fees. In DC stores still pay us a nickel for each reusable bag we fill with groceries.
17
There are two distinctly different but intertwined issues here: what is better for the environment and should the government be micromanaging our lives? One can reasonably support one and have differences about the advisability or application of the other.
In addition, the apparent is not always true. I recently read -- sorry, but I can't cite the source -- that more energy is consumed making a paper bag than a plastic bag. In our rush to do the right thing, let us resist the temptation to think solutions are always simple or even straightforward. How to do what is best for the environment, even to agree on what such means, is very complex, not something that can be reduced to a bumpersticker or a Presidential debate one-liner.
In addition, the apparent is not always true. I recently read -- sorry, but I can't cite the source -- that more energy is consumed making a paper bag than a plastic bag. In our rush to do the right thing, let us resist the temptation to think solutions are always simple or even straightforward. How to do what is best for the environment, even to agree on what such means, is very complex, not something that can be reduced to a bumpersticker or a Presidential debate one-liner.
6
I do recycle and reuse plastic bags. But. The frequency that one finds them by the roadside, caught in the upper branches of a tree, waving frantically from a barb wired fence in the winds, etc, is enough to wish them banned forever. They pollute the landscape and foul waterways. Those bags also choke marine life. Enough already. Ban them!
19
So instead of reusing grocery bags for waste baskets, garbage and pet pick-up, I can instead buy plastic bags for these purposes. This hardly is an environmental improvement, but it probably will benefit the plastic bag industry. I also look forward to carrying bags around with me when I go out to perform multiple tasks, not just shopping. Lots of fun. If you want to reduce the use of plastic bags, then ban them and come up with a more environmentally friendly solution.
25
Your gripe is that you have to carry a bag to the store, where you can purchase virtually any item the world has to offer you right in your own city, so that the environment doesn't suffer further effects of this ubiquitous product?
I'm not a fan of hashtag slogans, but "first world problems" definitely comes to mind...
I'm not a fan of hashtag slogans, but "first world problems" definitely comes to mind...
According to the article, the plastic bag industry seems to strongly disagree with you that this would be good for them. So it seems like the right solution, then!
The big problem is that many NYer's re-use the plastic bags for a very long list of things in which paper is not feasible It smells of lite-politiks to charge for the bags.
Meanwhile the number of products sold in plastic containers in a grocery store? hundreds and even thousands.
16
I am always surprised when New Yorkers introduce things that many other places have been doing without issue for years -- like bike-sharing and bag fees -- and act as if they're overwhelmed by the thought of them. My question is: What took you so long?
23
Who cares about a nickel a bag? At most, you'll get 10 bags and spend 50 cents. The alternative is to carry around a big wad of reusable bags. Most people will pay the 50 cents. If the goal is to minimize plastic bag use, ban them, don't tax them. The small town where I live banned plastic bags and now i have to tote around a backseat full of reusables. I don't like it but I have no option and I accept that the ban is good for the environment. Point is, you have to force people not to use plastic bags. Give them a choice and they'll pick plastic.
5
Most of us don't have cars.
One reason I live here is so I don't have to own a car.
I'm really ashamed of my city right now. The amount of mental gymnastics that rationalize this isn't at least some sort of start in the right direction is sad. We're better than this.
6
a number of readers have talked about the "inconvenience" of carrying one's own bag because shopping is often done in the evening afer work either before or after commuting on the subway/bus. i've bought a bag that takes up the space of a rubber "spaldeen" ball and it goes in the bag where i store my lunch and reading material. when i shop, i pull out out at the check-out and open it up to store the items i buy. also, when it gets dirty (to allay the fears of readers who talk about the risk of "contamination" in the use of reusable bags) i throw it it the washing machine. honestly, it's not that difficult! are these really new yorkers who are whining about this "disaster"? really, i thought we were ALL tougher than that.
21
This idea isn't complete. Yes the bags are a problem and people need to be aware of what to do with them. On the other hand, I save a lot of money by using them for garbage. Now I'll have to spend more $ for that. And why paper also? Paper is biodegradable, even when it's garbage.
8
This model is highly inadequate in a city like NYC. We should outright ban the plastic bags, we simply have too many people with way too much money or loose spending habits who won't mind paying 5 cents. People are too lazy to make coffee at home and pay $3-4 at coffee shops every single morning, are they really going to care about a nickel?
Just ban the bags and figure out how to distribute reusable bags to poor residents. Make the stores carry a cheap reusable bag that you can purchase if you forgot yours. After you pay for 4 of them, I bet you will not forget them anymore. This is how the 15,000-member Park Slope Food Coop operates and it seems to be working well for everybody, including the poorer members.
Just ban the bags and figure out how to distribute reusable bags to poor residents. Make the stores carry a cheap reusable bag that you can purchase if you forgot yours. After you pay for 4 of them, I bet you will not forget them anymore. This is how the 15,000-member Park Slope Food Coop operates and it seems to be working well for everybody, including the poorer members.
15
Nothing like the weensiest change to bring out New Yorkers' whininess and their none too charming conviction that measures that work all over the country and the world can't possibly work here.
Like protected bike lanes--a staple of urban planning in city's far denser than this one--having to *shudder* bring bags with you or pay a measly $.05 is simply too much for a bunch of people who otherwise going around boasting about how tough they are.
It's a frequently made point but it's not any the less true: there is no one in the world as provincial as a New Yorker.
Like protected bike lanes--a staple of urban planning in city's far denser than this one--having to *shudder* bring bags with you or pay a measly $.05 is simply too much for a bunch of people who otherwise going around boasting about how tough they are.
It's a frequently made point but it's not any the less true: there is no one in the world as provincial as a New Yorker.
19
About time. Plastic bags absolutely should be taxed, as they are a complete luxury that the planet cannot afford. Any of us could and can live without them, and once we do, we will survive and in the bargain do something good for the generation after us, if we haven't totally mucked it all up by now. Man, do people need to grow up.
24
"they are a complete luxury that the planet cannot afford."
So D, you never ever buy anything sold in a plastic container? Because you express a very strong opinion here.
So D, you never ever buy anything sold in a plastic container? Because you express a very strong opinion here.
9
Read the article!!!!! It's not a tax, it's a charge!!! The money doesn't go to the government or to help the environment. It's a profit for the grocer!!!!
On that alone, it's a bad law!!!!
On that alone, it's a bad law!!!!
8
Oh for heavens sakes get a grip. We have had to pay 5 cents for a plastic bag up here in Toronto for years. I have about 8 cloth bags that I keep on hand all of the time. It's better for the environment. I'm betting you can handle it.
57
Are cloth bags better?
The numbers indicate filmy plastic bags have the lowest yearly carbon cost while reusable cloth bags, washed once a month are at least 4-fold more "costly."
Growing, harvesting, milling and weaving cotton is horribly costly for the environment and washing clothes is one of the most environmentally detrimental tasks that people undertake.
While it "feels right" to like reusable and hate filmy plastic bags, environmentally, filmy plastic bags win (even over paper) by quite a large margin.
The numbers indicate filmy plastic bags have the lowest yearly carbon cost while reusable cloth bags, washed once a month are at least 4-fold more "costly."
Growing, harvesting, milling and weaving cotton is horribly costly for the environment and washing clothes is one of the most environmentally detrimental tasks that people undertake.
While it "feels right" to like reusable and hate filmy plastic bags, environmentally, filmy plastic bags win (even over paper) by quite a large margin.
5
Yes, but you REUSE the cloth bags for years when grocery shopping. You don't just throw them away every time.
2
The problem isn't the extra nickel or the use of cloth bags. It's just another instance where the government feels the need to intrude in our lives and try to tell us what to do. Why not tax foods with too many calories? Why don't we tax coffee cups and encourage people to bring their own mugs to Starbucks? How much waste do coffee cups produce?? When will it end? Let us live our lives.
1
Dumb move...
1) Many New Yorkers use our plastic grocery bags to bag the trash and put it in the building disposal -- buildings have sensible rules that trash be disposed of in sealed plastic bags. Small grocery bags are ideal for frequent disposal of small amounts of trash (daily, so it doesn't accumulate and smell...). No more grocery bags --> need to buy Glad or whatever, which are larger that grocery bags, but will be used just as frequently.
2) Soem grocery stores have drop-off for extra bags, so you can recycle them. Problem solved, if folks just use common sense.
No dumb bag tax is needed.
QED
1) Many New Yorkers use our plastic grocery bags to bag the trash and put it in the building disposal -- buildings have sensible rules that trash be disposed of in sealed plastic bags. Small grocery bags are ideal for frequent disposal of small amounts of trash (daily, so it doesn't accumulate and smell...). No more grocery bags --> need to buy Glad or whatever, which are larger that grocery bags, but will be used just as frequently.
2) Soem grocery stores have drop-off for extra bags, so you can recycle them. Problem solved, if folks just use common sense.
No dumb bag tax is needed.
QED
34
2) Most bags that go in those "recycle" bins are just thrown out. And clearly those bins are not managing to keep the city clean of bags in trees, on the street, etc., hence the need for this regulation.
1) Umm, why does a 5 cent charge suddenly mean "no more grocery bags"? If you would like bags for garbage disposal you may continue to obtain them at the grocery store with your other purchases for the negligible price of 5 cents each.
I had originally doubted this regulation had any use, since how could such a tiny charge provide enough psychological motivation to change behavior? In a world of $5 cappuccinos, how could a 5 cent fee have any effect on people's lives? But I was clearly totally wrong, given the number of people writing here about what a terrible forced lifestyle change this is, being prevented by this crippling tax burden from ever using plastic bags again. Who knew a nickel was so powerful!
1) Umm, why does a 5 cent charge suddenly mean "no more grocery bags"? If you would like bags for garbage disposal you may continue to obtain them at the grocery store with your other purchases for the negligible price of 5 cents each.
I had originally doubted this regulation had any use, since how could such a tiny charge provide enough psychological motivation to change behavior? In a world of $5 cappuccinos, how could a 5 cent fee have any effect on people's lives? But I was clearly totally wrong, given the number of people writing here about what a terrible forced lifestyle change this is, being prevented by this crippling tax burden from ever using plastic bags again. Who knew a nickel was so powerful!
8
Taxes go to the government and are fixed in law - these fees go to the vendor who can set any price they like above 5 cents per bag. So not a tax.
3
No need to purchase Gad bags. You can continue to use the plastic bags you have been. You just will pay a nickel each.
So when I go to a store and I choose to use one of "their" bags I am in essence purchasing the bag. In fact, it is pretty common for stores to sell higher grade "reusable bags". In other words, I can buy one type of bag for a nickel or another for a dollar. Now if the retailer wants to charge me nothing (or or anything less than a nickel) for the bag, he cannot do so because the law would prohibit him from doing so. In other words, government has forced a price on a vendor. Last I checked, THAT was illegal or at the very least totally un-American.
The government can tax (some even debate that), but as sure as heck can't fix prices.
Additional dumb questions:
Who counts bags at the self check out line?
What happens when the first bag starts to rip so you double bag? Is there a percentage rip where you get a refund or don't have to pay?
Is there a guarantee on the nickel bag? I mean, if I have to pay for it, there must be consumer protections, no? Can't wait to sue my local bodega because their defective bag allowed a can of peas and carrots to land on my little toe causing pain and suffering!
The government can tax (some even debate that), but as sure as heck can't fix prices.
Additional dumb questions:
Who counts bags at the self check out line?
What happens when the first bag starts to rip so you double bag? Is there a percentage rip where you get a refund or don't have to pay?
Is there a guarantee on the nickel bag? I mean, if I have to pay for it, there must be consumer protections, no? Can't wait to sue my local bodega because their defective bag allowed a can of peas and carrots to land on my little toe causing pain and suffering!
21
There is a deposit charge on glass bottles - is that illegal too?
5
There's a very easy answer to all of your questions. Bring your own folded bag.
Unless you're buying rocks you can just bring your own sturdy bags like we do in Los Angeles. It's been working out well. People adapt quickly.
This is beyond stupid of the City Council as it affects people who live in apartment buildings and need to throw their garbage down compactor chutes. Paper bags will create a mess at the bottom of the chutes. If groceries no longer give out plastic bags, people will still need to buy them to dispose of their garbage. Does the Council suggest that apartment dwellers should throw loose organic waste down the disposal chute? This would create a serious vermin problem. Perhaps it would just be simpler to throw garbage out the window.
18
I am very happy to read that more and more cities and countries in the world are taking a stand against plastic waste! Concrete action! There are free, lowcost and organic solutions to replace plastic bags. Everyone just has to adapt. But for the environment, our future and the animals that suffered so much from the plastic soup and waste - this is a blessing. We can do this!
5
If there's any practical upside to this, maybe it will be that grocery stores will upgrade to higher quality plastic bags that don't require double-bagging for the smallest of items. It's one thing to get crappy bags for free, but no one's going to be okay with paying 2 times 5 cents extra to bag a carton of eggs.
2
So plastic bags from the supermarket checkout is bad but plastic water bottles and everything else plastic on the shelves are ok. how about the plastic bags they offer for fruit and vegatables? what about the cans linked with chemicals? they are ok as well. yup makes sense.
5
Great news. They should just charge a $1 if they want to make a bigger difference. Perhaps phase it up to $1 over 3 years and I bet you see big changes in behavior.
Just like the 5cent deposit on bottles. Increase it to something very noticeable like 50cents and include plastic water bottles and all the sudden the recycle rate would climb to 100%.
Just like the 5cent deposit on bottles. Increase it to something very noticeable like 50cents and include plastic water bottles and all the sudden the recycle rate would climb to 100%.
6
Along with the 5c fee, which is perceived as a penalty, why can't stores also incentivize shoppers who bring their own bags, say by deducting 10c from the bill?
9
Actually, Whole Foods Market does that that - if you bring your own bag, or don't ask for one, they take 10c off the bill.
1
Change is always tough - witnessing the comments here makes me understand even more why any effective action on climate change will be too little, too late. We are enamored with our habits, and mistake them for reality! BTW, I lived in Switzerland for 2 years more than 20 years ago and there were no free bags at the checkout - and Switzerland was and still is a beautiful, environmentally-sane country.
16
This is really a regressive tax. And for a mayor who prides himself on helping the poor he sure is sticking it to them here. So many better ways to make a bigger impact on the environment: expanding composting, installing solar panels on city buildings or charging a fee for electronics recycling. Instead the city council charges a fee for paper and plastic bags that weigh an ounce each at best. I expect this will become so unpopular, especially in poor communities, that it will be repealed. Just another reason to question the wisdom of government officials.
4
It would be better for the environment if NYC quit dumping treated and untreated sewage plant effluent into the waterways, instead of worrying about plastic bags.
I am not understanding how this issue causes more of a hardship to the poor? Are you implying that they don't have alternative bags? This is not a social strata hardship, it is an environmental benefit to all.
Bags continue to be free for those using food stamps so the tax (fee) is regressive how?
A small, welcome start. But can we just ban them?
I'm tired of seeing plastic bags blowing through the air, sticking in trees and ending in our waterways and oceans where they are fatally ingested by fish and other sea life.
Enough of so called "convenience" for the lazy, uncaring and obtuse.
I'm tired of seeing plastic bags blowing through the air, sticking in trees and ending in our waterways and oceans where they are fatally ingested by fish and other sea life.
Enough of so called "convenience" for the lazy, uncaring and obtuse.
21
I like the word obtuse. It fits. I think it is related to the flatness of an obtuse angle.
I was thinking of a straight line and not an obtuse angle. How is the metaphorical meaning of obtuse related to to an obtuse angle?
It's unsanitary using the bags over and over but stupid politicians have to make empty gestures. Reducing plastic bag usage effect on the environment is about the same as someone who orders an extra large banana split with extra sauce and whipped cream but forgoes the cherry because they're on a diet.
16
It's not unsanitary. Most groceries already have packaging on them, so nothing really touches the bag... unless you plan on buying raw meat, removing it from all its wrapping and from its plastic bag (the small produce bags are exempt from the ban), and placing a T-bone steak right into the reusable bag.
I've used reusable nylon bags for years and they rarely get dirty. Every so often I throw them in with a load of laundry I'm already doing. It's nothing.
I've used reusable nylon bags for years and they rarely get dirty. Every so often I throw them in with a load of laundry I'm already doing. It's nothing.
4
You can wash the reusable bags in the washing machine.
A lot of exemptions:
"Under the legislation, restaurants, including those that deliver and serve takeout, and street vendors of prepared food will not have to charge for the plastic bags they give to customers. Among the other exemptions: plastic bags used for produce, small paper medicine bags at pharmacies, bags used at state-regulated liquor stores and bags used by soup kitchens. Those buying groceries with food stamps are also exempt from paying the fee."
So the bags you get from take out break to the grocery store with you....
"Under the legislation, restaurants, including those that deliver and serve takeout, and street vendors of prepared food will not have to charge for the plastic bags they give to customers. Among the other exemptions: plastic bags used for produce, small paper medicine bags at pharmacies, bags used at state-regulated liquor stores and bags used by soup kitchens. Those buying groceries with food stamps are also exempt from paying the fee."
So the bags you get from take out break to the grocery store with you....
If the Times was publishing real journalism, its reporters would be reporting something more than press releases and quotes. Who were the lobbyists, how much were they paid by their clients, who were the recipients of campaign donations, and how much were the donations? I can't believe the retailers get to keep the five cent fee per bag. DOS collects 10 billion bags each year? Do the math, folks. Five cents times 10 billion equals $500,000,000. This all goes to the retailers? No money for to the environment or schools or health care or the homeless? Or more cops or sanitation workers? This bill wasn't stupid. It's stupid to the Nth.
16
Your math is faulty. The effect of these bag fees (and I know, having lived in a city where one was successfully in effect) is that people will opt to bring their own bags... so there will no longer *be* 10 billion bags a year used. That's the whole point.
People like to save money, so they avoid the plastic bags whenever possible.
People like to save money, so they avoid the plastic bags whenever possible.
1
I, for one, would be far more concerned about the environmental impact of that bazillion dollar condo building than the plastic bag fluttering in the breeze.
14
Seriously. What if we just outlawed plastic bags along with plastic water bottles and soft drink bottles, effective in 1 year with no backing out. Threatening their bottom line, I can guarantee the soft drink bottling companies would come up with another solution and we'd be one step closer toward treating this planet right. People and stores would find another way to carry goods. After a month of complaining, I'm sure everyone who shares this planet would agree it is a step in the right direction.
9
Won't affect plastic bag use just increase prices - which is unfair to the poor. Just a dumb attempt to coerce human behavior, but the penalty is insignificant.
6
Except that it does actually change behavior. It's been proven to work. I lived in L.A. when it was implemented there, and people (of all income levels) just started using their own bags. It wasn't hard.
1
And how many times did people in LA drive their gas guzzlers to and from the supermarket? How many times do the people in LA drive to and from home? Such 'green' hypocrisy.
1
I can understand the tax on plastic bags, but extending it to paper bags is an unwarranted attempt to micromanage citizens' behavior - and leaves me incensed.
If there's anyone in America that needs to be micromanaged, it's our politicians - a significant percentage of whom are no more honest than Sheldon Silver and Dean Skelos, and hence the worst kind of human waste.
If there's anyone in America that needs to be micromanaged, it's our politicians - a significant percentage of whom are no more honest than Sheldon Silver and Dean Skelos, and hence the worst kind of human waste.
32
Research has shown that reusable grocery bags pose a serious risk to public health, due to contamination with infectious agents. The goal should be elimination of plastic bags, but making paper bags available is safer for the environment as well as for the public health.
18
Actually, research has found that paper bags are at least, if not more, detrimental to the environment than plastic. The key negatives for paper are the chemical and energy intensive, toxic waste producing manufacturing process, its relative heaviness (transportation), and the fact that its less re-usable (falls apart easier, not suitable for wet garbage, dog poop, etc.).
https://ecomyths.org/2014/05/27/myth-paper-bags-are-greener-than-plastic/
As to the hazards of re-usable bags, based on my own long-term experience, including re-using produce bags multiple times, I suspect that research showing their danger has likely been funded by the disposable bag manufacturing industry.
https://ecomyths.org/2014/05/27/myth-paper-bags-are-greener-than-plastic/
As to the hazards of re-usable bags, based on my own long-term experience, including re-using produce bags multiple times, I suspect that research showing their danger has likely been funded by the disposable bag manufacturing industry.
4
There is minor, not "serious" health risk in using reusable grocery bags (mostly from fecal matter contamination); instances of infection are rare and preventable using common sense. Of course, alarmist articles would have us believe otherwise.
Paper bags create more airborne pollution and utilize more energy over their life cycle than plastic; this information is readily available online, e.g.: https://plastics.americanchemistry.com/Analysis-of-Polyethylene-and-Unbl...
Paper bags create more airborne pollution and utilize more energy over their life cycle than plastic; this information is readily available online, e.g.: https://plastics.americanchemistry.com/Analysis-of-Polyethylene-and-Unbl...
2
I agree. The reusable bags that I use are cloth & go in the laundry with my towels, for this reason.
7
Good for this step toward making people more conscientious of the amount of soon-to-be-waste they consume.
3
Is it "conscientious" if they make you do it by law and impose a five cent cost - sounds like it takes all the responsibility to be "conscientious" away from the store, the service staff, and the consumer. And they threw in paper bags, too - which is just playing to shallow thinkers first-order instincts - paper bags are not bad for the environment: nothing is as recyclable, decomposable, or renewable as a paper bag made from wood cellulose - people all put those "Don't print" logos at the end of their emails but that's meant to say "Look at me - I'm so sensitive to the environment" because it sure doesn't say "Hey, I'm smart" - pulp trees grow very fast, are good for the air and ozone, and are good for the ground and drainage, especially in the Chesapeake Bay Watershed - use more paper people! It's grow back. Well, I digress - this law is silly and will cost a few jobs - more than a few is just hyperbole, I have no idea how many it will cost (I could make up a statistic - then run for mayor), but if there are just several thousand fewer quick shopping trips because people forgot their canvas bags (with the "Save the Whales" or French grocery logo on them - again "Look at me, I'm intellectual and right thinking") then it will cost a few jobs in retail - and that's a shame, because there are so many better ways to achieve the same change (although few would get you as much press).
2
Hard to believe Lander made it to elective office. Do you suppose there is any chance at all that the funds collected will be turned over intact to reputable private charities for disbursement to the needy in NYC?
1
Finally time to support the environment with real action. Just buy good cloth bags which can be re washed between use...can't we take this small step for man kind?
We are the ones who live on this planet and we face the consequences of landfills whether we like it or not.
We are the ones who live on this planet and we face the consequences of landfills whether we like it or not.
9
Well we are using to much water to wash the bags after each use! Polluting the water with the soaps and the dirt from the bags! Next Idea!
Much more water and energy is used to produce a paper bag or to recycle a paper bag than to wash a cloth bag. The chemicals used in manufacturing paper bags are far more nasty than laundry detergent.
Well, five cents a bag probably won't change things too much. I use every plastic bag I get from the stores as trash bags. Funny when I see someone buying glad trash bags and putting them in their reusable bag. The drugstore bags are so thin, the ones to purchase in the store are thicker, so if I were to buy trash bags, that would be more environmentally unsound. We are required to put our trash in bags. Anyhow, just another way of looking at it.
18
You make and excellent point - five cents a bag (ok, a dime for two to be sturdy) is still cheaper than buying those Glad bags!
Why not simply ban non-biodegradable plastic bags instead? You know, the one that disintegrate after a year and make a mess at the bottom of drawers, but are not as bad for the environment. As has been said, carrying your own bag is not convenient in NYC where most shopping is not pre-planned in a mall. And we need these bags for the chutes!
5
Supermarkets should reward customers with a free reusable bag for every say $150 spent. Anything to get people into doing away with the plastics. Why should we have to purchase one for a dollar? give 'em out at the beginning.
These bags cost about 5 cents to make and they've got advertising on them.
These bags cost about 5 cents to make and they've got advertising on them.
7
$150? You are delusional about the real world.
This law has been in Ireland for 15 years - there was no whinging or whining when it came in. You buy your own reusable bags and that's the way it is. On the downside - it is one less gripe to have in the pub. We are now down to nuclear power versus wind power. Ps - when the law came into effect - there were no dark clouds in the sky, dogs did not start howling at the moon and the little people did not complain either.
25
I have no problem getting rid of the plastic, just come up with better ideas. Most of everyone who says they have no problems are people who drive to the marts. For people who walk back and forth or take public transportation or are even poor this is an inconvenience., They are going to charge for paper also!
The five cents per plastic bag has been in effect in Canada for at least five years.
13
At least the fee isn't as ridiculous as CA (10-25 cents)
I wish the stores would sell me reusable cloth bags for the same price, but obviously this is just another way to make money.
I wish the stores would sell me reusable cloth bags for the same price, but obviously this is just another way to make money.
6
Another person just accepting paying, people like you are part of the problem that let these politicians and big corporations get away with it. Most of the stores do sell bags. Stop being so agreeable to spending your hard earned money on nothing but air!
1
Try Trader Joe's. You get a good reusable bag for 99cents.
drevuphd - "Another person just accepting paying". Yep everything should be free.
Good grief New Yorkers. Why not just ban the plastic bags? It's been done in much of California for a while now. In fact, we get charged 10 cents for a paper bag. It took a bit to get used to but we now use reusable shopping bags for everything and they are much sturdier than those paper bags.
47
In San Francisco, do you drive your groceries home in your car? We don't in New York. We all walk and pick up our food on the way home. Everything we need for the day we must carry, so it would be difficult to leave the house with a mess of bags just in case we need to stop for groceries.
I assume you do your shopping on the way home from the subway the way most of us in NYC do. Or you pack your Coach briefcase with a few reusable bags, most which are made from recycled petroleum products.
1
Well sorry but your stupid for paying 10 cents for a paper bag when the prices in the food mart are already high! I agree if there is a problem with the plastic bags then come up with better ideas don't just keep taking money from us! In New York we do not drive to the supermarket like you do in California so we carry our food back and forth as we walk!
Dallas tried this, as well, and was promptly sued by a well-funded coalition of plastic bag manufacturers and recyclers. The city couldn't afford to fight the suit, particularly when it looked like it couldn't win, and that ended the practice.\
Money always wins in the end.
Money always wins in the end.
5
Hey, New York...you're better than Dallas. Dallas? Totally lame that you didn't have the will to pursue this responsibility.
There are a few of us who do object. Back in the good old days these "fees" were just added to price of groceries or as they say the" price of doing business". Now if you forget the store wants to charge you for the bag in your groceries. I now have at least 50+ bags in my trunk and I have to bring my groceries outside and bag them myself. BUMMER. Yeah, I like the old way. When I travel I can no longer separate my clothes/shoes/accessories in the handy plastic bags I used to get for free. I NOW have to purchase bags to separate my belongings. It's a drag. But I will buy into the saving the environment for someones children.
And to the responder below. Please send me your mothers plastic bags. I really need them to keep all my outfits and shoes sorted in my luggage. Thank you.
And to the responder below. Please send me your mothers plastic bags. I really need them to keep all my outfits and shoes sorted in my luggage. Thank you.
Buy some packing cubes. They last forever & do a way better job.
Brenda, we don't drive cars in NYC. So your comment does not apply here.
1
I'm ashamed that my UWS councilwoman -- who should know better -- supported this bill. People in my neighborhood generally walk to the grocery store, often on the way home from work. We don't have the suburban luxury of storing empty bags in the SUV that we drive to the store. So at the end of the day, we'll all just have to pay 5 cents per bag, and the price of a typical 4-bag grocery run with double bags will have gone up by 40 cents. We'll still use as many bags (most of us use the bags for putting garbage in, so even if we somehow use fewer bags at the grocery store, we'll need to buy Hefty bags to replace them), and Mr D'Agostino and Mr Gristide or whatever his name is will pocket the extra 40 cents. Clearly my councilwoman -- who probably either doesn't do her own grocery shopping, or else does it on her way driving home from the Hamptons -- and her colleagues are totally out of touch with how New Yorkers actually live.
60
Sorry, I just got home from a walk to my market and bought produce (including red pepper, artichokes, fingerling potatoes) without using a plastic bag. It's almost a mile walk each way. My best friend has lived in Chelsea for 15 years and hoofs it, too, bringing along her reusable carrier bags. The argument that NY-ers can't do this is hollow. Come on y'all!
18
I live in the suburbs, but I keep my reusable grocery bags in my (rather small) pocketbook. I got one as a premium years ago from WNYC, very light. Another one was a free giveaway that folds into an attached pouch. Each folds into a little attached pouch.
These bags hold much more, and have stronger handles, than the free plastic bags from the grocery store. Easier on the hands too. Even with free bags I use my reusables for convenience and ecological reasons.
One doesn't need an SUV to use reusable bags.
These bags hold much more, and have stronger handles, than the free plastic bags from the grocery store. Easier on the hands too. Even with free bags I use my reusables for convenience and ecological reasons.
One doesn't need an SUV to use reusable bags.
12
I have had 3 nylon bags for the last several years. They scrunch up into almost no space and live in the outside pocket of my purse. If I were a man they would easily fit in a jacket or pant pocket.
I wash them every few days in the sink of water used to wipe the counters. They hang to dry on the shower head very quickly.
Changing habits isn't easy, but in this case the rewards far outweigh the inconvenience.
Next step is for New Yorkers to figure out how to throw away their trash without using plastic wrappers which will still be there in the land fill and oceans centuries from now.
You are an inventive people, I have faith that you will come up with something.
I wash them every few days in the sink of water used to wipe the counters. They hang to dry on the shower head very quickly.
Changing habits isn't easy, but in this case the rewards far outweigh the inconvenience.
Next step is for New Yorkers to figure out how to throw away their trash without using plastic wrappers which will still be there in the land fill and oceans centuries from now.
You are an inventive people, I have faith that you will come up with something.
2
Plastic bags are made from oil, a fossil fuel.
Ban the manufacture, distribution and sale of them. Please.
Help save our planet.
Ban the manufacture, distribution and sale of them. Please.
Help save our planet.
15
Paper bags use trees, lots of energy and lots of water to produce. They weigh a lot more and, therefore, cost more to transport. They are no better.
I'm not sure how this is going to work.
Currently, when I go to the grocery store, I buy a pound of loose carrots, 5 pounds of potatoes, and a pound of ground coffee, and put them all in individual plastic bags. Now, am I supposed to pay 5c for those bags? Or am I supposed to bring my own bags? Where do I buy bags?
Or suppose I buy a pacakaged bag of carrots and a packaged bag of potatoes. Do I pay 5c for those bags?
Currently, when I go to the grocery store, I buy a pound of loose carrots, 5 pounds of potatoes, and a pound of ground coffee, and put them all in individual plastic bags. Now, am I supposed to pay 5c for those bags? Or am I supposed to bring my own bags? Where do I buy bags?
Or suppose I buy a pacakaged bag of carrots and a packaged bag of potatoes. Do I pay 5c for those bags?
7
Just buy the items loose, or at least out them through the checkout loose and consolidate into fewer produce bags. That works for us.
3
Pretty sure this is about shopping bags, not the bags in the produce department.
4
People have been farming on this planet for thousands of years. Plastic bags were invented in the past 50 years. We should do some serious research and find out how anyone was able to manage carrots before 50 years ago. Heck, how do people even manage to move the carrots from their garden to their house??
7
I just want to know, how difficult was it to get to this photographic shot with the blue stick building in the background? That building is no icon of NYC. What a ridiculous photo.
5
Having lived in NYC for 20 years, I'm very happy to read that something is finally being done to discourage the use and waste of plastic bags. Go into any NYC corner convenience store and watch this scene all day long: customer puts a single beverage on the counter, clerk puts beverage into plastic bag along with napkins and a straw, customer walks out of store to the nearest garbage can and throws away the plastic bag, straw, and napkins. It happens all the time without any thought or consideration of the long-term consequences. I got tired of watching plastic bags blowing down the streets like tumbleweeds and seeing them stuck in trees where they blow, rattle, and slowly shed over years. I now live in Portland, Oregon where you can't even get a plastic bag in most stores. Despite the doomsday scenarios portrayed by the plastic bag industry, it should be no surprise that the city has not suffered without them. In fact, we are far better off.
95
By that logic, nearly every convenience we use should be eliminated. When we decide to get rid of one you like, no doubt you'll be the first to protest.
Fixing a problem by reverting to something that was obviously eliminated because people wanted something better is not a solution. Finding a better disposable bag is.
Fixing a problem by reverting to something that was obviously eliminated because people wanted something better is not a solution. Finding a better disposable bag is.
1
How's the driving in Portland? And when was the last time you lugged a couple of heavy paper shopping bags -- in the rain, on foot -- just a few blocks home?
1
You couldn't be more correct. My question is who is in bed with whom? Was always under the impression that paper was biodegradable. How is the environment being helped by charging the consumer and giving the supermarkets five cents per bag! What about a return deposit similar to bottles?
1
This should be quite a boon to vendors like Fresh Direct. I know I will now do more of my shopping on line. To expect the consumer to pay for the failure of
industry or retailers to find environmentally effective ways to eliminate unsafe customs will, as mentioned in the article, hurt those least able to afford it to pay more. Smart move.
industry or retailers to find environmentally effective ways to eliminate unsafe customs will, as mentioned in the article, hurt those least able to afford it to pay more. Smart move.
2
NYC should have checked out the nationwide German model where the fee is calculated and collected at the source, where the bag, or any recyclable is created.
Incorporating the cost of recycling in the initial cost for the retailer creates an incentive for the retailer to offer sustainable alternatives, like: If you bring your own bags and don't have to get new ones, you get, say, five cents off each bag you could have used. Customers can see the savings, and the utility of carrying their own bags in.
However, for some zip codes in Manhattan, this discussion is quite academic. Do you think that a good bunch of people residing at the corner of certain streets and avenues actually deign to look at their bill of overpriced comestibles, if they go shopping at all?
A good initial effort, however Mayor Bloomberg would have done it in a way more researched and studied fashion.
Incorporating the cost of recycling in the initial cost for the retailer creates an incentive for the retailer to offer sustainable alternatives, like: If you bring your own bags and don't have to get new ones, you get, say, five cents off each bag you could have used. Customers can see the savings, and the utility of carrying their own bags in.
However, for some zip codes in Manhattan, this discussion is quite academic. Do you think that a good bunch of people residing at the corner of certain streets and avenues actually deign to look at their bill of overpriced comestibles, if they go shopping at all?
A good initial effort, however Mayor Bloomberg would have done it in a way more researched and studied fashion.
1
In Germany there are stores where you can buy a nice looking bag for i think 1$ - offered in several hip colors. After using it for a while it naturally wears down, but then you can deliver this bag in one of the stores and get a new one without having to pay.
The name of the company is only on the shoulderstraps, so not too prominent at all. These eco initiatives make me like this store more, it makes you feel the shop cares about more than making money and producing mountains of "stuff" no one really needs - for the sake of it. The stores also have more and more eco, fairtrade, clean and vegan products which are very upcoming - especially with the younger people!
The name of the company is only on the shoulderstraps, so not too prominent at all. These eco initiatives make me like this store more, it makes you feel the shop cares about more than making money and producing mountains of "stuff" no one really needs - for the sake of it. The stores also have more and more eco, fairtrade, clean and vegan products which are very upcoming - especially with the younger people!
3
I don't care. I am not carrying around another bag everywhere all the time. That is the problem. I'll pay the extra money.
This is an enormous opportunity for stores to advertise the donation of all "bag money" to an environmental charity of their choice. Let them out-do each other - maybe they'll even match each 5c purchase. It will be in the store's interest also to reduce the number of bags purchased! No biggie.
6
Oh for god sake, accept progress. The Outer Banks has banned those nasty plastic bags for years, and everyone adapted. As for the poor folks, give them reusable bags with advertising on them - they're ubiquitous anyway. We heard the same complaints and had the same entities lobbying against it - especially the plastic industry. All the towns here have plastic bag dispensers for dog waste, so who needs plastic bags otherwise? NYC should do the same - put them at every corner. Cheap and effective way to keep the streets clean, and they can be bio-degradable. Plastic shopping bags are unnecessary, wasteful and ugly. And they're so last century.
11
I have been using reusable bags fairly consistently for about 10 years and yet I still end up with far too many plastic bags to use for trash can liners. The biggest problem is when not shopping from home and not having a reusable bag with me. I'll have to remember my "packy-sack" in the future.
I use the bags available at the meat and produce sections for the dog, so this won't affect that aspect.
Overall I support this for a lot of reasons. Anything that reduces the use of petroleum products.
I use the bags available at the meat and produce sections for the dog, so this won't affect that aspect.
Overall I support this for a lot of reasons. Anything that reduces the use of petroleum products.
7
It's ridiculous it's not $0.50 or $1. I don't know many people who will be deterred by a nickel.
2
It will work. Just read these comments for all the whinging over a bloody nickel. Unbelievable!
Why half the collected funds don't go toward something nice for the environment or the neighborhood beats me. The decision shouldn't be just a profit-maker for the supermarket or whatever.
7
NYC's City Council members should put dunce caps on and stand in the corner for using the stick (5-cents), rather than the carrot (a reward), as an incentive for recycling plastic bags. The environmental objective all along has been to "eliminate plastic bags" rather than the lame-brained idea of selling them. They and plastic bottles are indestructible. Charging 5-cents per plastic bag at the grocery store is not a solution. As an example, here in NYC Whole Foods has eliminated plastic bags for paper bags with an incentive, rewarding the shopper with a 10-cent credit each time they recycle a shopping bag. With plastic bottles, nationwide, there is a 5-cent returnable deposit when returned by the purchaser or more frequently by an enterprising entrepreneur.
10
So if I have to stop at CVS or the grocery store on way home from work, I pay for a bag? Outrageous. So where do I keep these bags I have to carry around everywhere now? Schlepp them back and forth to work, and everywhere I go or pay 5 cents? I would rather they passed legislation to require recyclable paper bags. It is just one more thing that makes NYC a place to live for the rich only. All those rich liberals think if they can afford it, so can everyone else.
13
Something here I'm not getting. The supermarkets that previously had to pay for the bags for their customers now get to make a profit on the plastic and paper bags they sell to their customers ? And none of this money goes to the city or to help the environment. Sounds more like corporate welfare for the stores than an environmental measure.
24
Chains will probably start indicate that the money goes to some environmental cause - they will use it to promotion their conscious corporate self!
2
Plastic bag usage will drop by 25% and sales of kitchen-size plastic garbage bags and doggy pick-up bags will rise by 400%. This feel-good kind of legislation has been tried all over the world and the results have been very mixed and not what most people thought they were going to be. Plastic bag recycling stations at supermarkets has been the best solution by far.
10
Yes, that is what the companies that sell plastic bottles tried to tell the dutch citizens too. They even bought some scientists to say that. Nonsens.
Thankfully the Netherlands still has a fee on plastic bottles and the citizens pay for plastic bags. The dutch listened to reason, objective science and the urgency that the environment needs.
And next to loads of colorful bikes there are now even more colorful ecological bags. Whats not to like!
Thankfully the Netherlands still has a fee on plastic bottles and the citizens pay for plastic bags. The dutch listened to reason, objective science and the urgency that the environment needs.
And next to loads of colorful bikes there are now even more colorful ecological bags. Whats not to like!
5
Did you consider the vast experience around the country and around the world with bags laws when making your expert prediction?
I appreciate the sentiment, but doesn't make a lot of sense. I use those for kitty litter, recyclables, and small trash cans. At the very least, the bag fee should go to an environmental fund. what about the stores that automatically double bag without asking? I say come up with some tax incentives for stores who offer discounts for bring your own bag or biodgradle options.
7
Tax incentives? the stores get to keep the money!
There are two distinctly different but intertwined issues here: what is better for the environment and should the government be micromanaging our lives? One can reasonably support one and have differences about the advisability or application of the other.
In addition, the apparent is not always true. I recently read -- sorry, but I can't cite the source -- that more energy is consumed making a paper bag than a plastic bag. In our rush to do the right thing, let us resist the temptation to think solutions are always simple or even straightforward. How to do what is best for the environment, even to agree on what such means, is very complex, not something that can be reduced to a bumpersticker or a Presidential debate one-liner.
In addition, the apparent is not always true. I recently read -- sorry, but I can't cite the source -- that more energy is consumed making a paper bag than a plastic bag. In our rush to do the right thing, let us resist the temptation to think solutions are always simple or even straightforward. How to do what is best for the environment, even to agree on what such means, is very complex, not something that can be reduced to a bumpersticker or a Presidential debate one-liner.
5
5 cents will not change habits; people will just pay it. The charge should be at least 15 cents, as was implemented in places such as Ireland, which then effectively deters their use and causes a mass shift to reusable bags.
8
Some time ago, Ireland decided to charge for plastic, in an effort to discourage its use. However, as I recall the cost per bag was approximately $3. 5 cents per bag is not likely to change much behavior. $3 per bag is something else.
1
If this fee were not regressive, food stamps recipients would not be excluded. But it is, and they are. And food stamps recipients are not the only New Yorkers who struggle financially. This law will simply make their lives more difficult and expensive, while all those nickels end up in John Catsimatidis' pocket.
8
I'm sympathetic to environmental issues, but you lost me when I learned the groceries will simply pocket the money.
10
Pocket the money? Do you think that the bag companies give grocery stores the bags for free? At 5¢ paper bags are still a loss leader.
One more tax that affects poor people the most from yet another progressive. Anyone who votes for this corrupt fool certainly needs to have their head examined.
4
4
9
I shop at ALDI's where you have to have 25 cents to get a shopping cart. I bring my own bags. I am always amazed at the "poor" people who come there in their own cars, just as I do, and never have any shopping bags. When they check out, they buy 3 or 4 large plastic bags. In Europe, we got used to bringing our own fabric bags long ago.
2
I'm ambivalent about this initiative. I already carry two reusable bags at all times. I do still accumulate plastic bags, however, as sometimes I need more than two. I reuse those as garbage bags, lunch bags, to wrap my shoes when I travel, and more. I agree with the incentive to get more people to use reusable bags. However, it punishes people like me who already reuse and recycle as much as possible. Now I will have to pay for the plastic bags that I save and reuse.
One more note - since my building started participating in the city pilot program to collect compost, I am needing fewer plastic bags, as I have much less garbage and it doesn't need to be emptied as often because it doesn't smell.
One more note - since my building started participating in the city pilot program to collect compost, I am needing fewer plastic bags, as I have much less garbage and it doesn't need to be emptied as often because it doesn't smell.
18
Why is the headline "plastic bags" when the story says the fee applies -as it should- to both paper and plastic?
14
Most people I know reuse the plastic bags either to hold household trash, dog poop or to clean out the litter box.
As long as they are re-used I'm not sure this initiative is helping at all. So now I'll be purchasing "plastic" bags for one-time use from the Hefty corporation--it's still plastic in the landfill.
As long as they are re-used I'm not sure this initiative is helping at all. So now I'll be purchasing "plastic" bags for one-time use from the Hefty corporation--it's still plastic in the landfill.
80
Most people don't reuse all those plastic bags and the environment is feeling it. NY is sadly also famous because of its plastic coat.
Why not buy cotton/hemp bags yourself? Loads of people do that. I do.
Why not buy glass containers that you can re-use or use glass foodcontainers.
Why not buy organic dogpoopbags that are environmentally friendly? Loads of people do that. I do.
That is no plastic in the landfill.
Why not buy cotton/hemp bags yourself? Loads of people do that. I do.
Why not buy glass containers that you can re-use or use glass foodcontainers.
Why not buy organic dogpoopbags that are environmentally friendly? Loads of people do that. I do.
That is no plastic in the landfill.
11
Brooklyn resident - Why are you still purchasing plastic bags for one time use? For years I have carried 2 nylon bags in a small pouch at the side of my purse. They scrunch up to almost nothing, and are much stronger than plastic. I am still using the ones I got years ago.
Even if your current bags get one more use as trash disposal - that is not the point. The billions of tons of plastic that are floating in the ocean, buried as sediment in landfills, and littering almost every corner of the land are toxic and dangerous. They break down into microscopic pieces that will last almost forever.
Household food trash doesn't need to be wrapped, we put ours unwrapped in green bins that is then composted. I am trying mightily to not buy stuff with excess packaging, and in fact make a nuisance of myself by insisting on leaving the packaging with the vendor. I don't have a good answer yet for dog poop and kitty litter. In a much less populated environment it would be OK to leave animal excrement where it lies. That is unrealistic now.
The days of every one of us leaving a trail of nondegradable litter behind each step we take has to come to an end.
Even if your current bags get one more use as trash disposal - that is not the point. The billions of tons of plastic that are floating in the ocean, buried as sediment in landfills, and littering almost every corner of the land are toxic and dangerous. They break down into microscopic pieces that will last almost forever.
Household food trash doesn't need to be wrapped, we put ours unwrapped in green bins that is then composted. I am trying mightily to not buy stuff with excess packaging, and in fact make a nuisance of myself by insisting on leaving the packaging with the vendor. I don't have a good answer yet for dog poop and kitty litter. In a much less populated environment it would be OK to leave animal excrement where it lies. That is unrealistic now.
The days of every one of us leaving a trail of nondegradable litter behind each step we take has to come to an end.
3
"As long as they are re-used I'm not sure this initiative is helping at all." The key phrase is "as long as they're reused." The problem is, far too many people DON'T reuse plastic bags, and a subset of the non-reusers are litterers who discard things wherever they please, making the environmental impact even worse.
I wasn't too thrilled when D.C.'s bag tax came into being found, as I too was/am a responsible reuser. But it's had a really salutary effect -- although D.C. still has far too much litter for my liking, there are relatively few plastic bags flying around these days. Now if only we could get a deposit requirement for aluminum cans, glass bottles, and (if possible) soda bottles...
It's a mistake for NYC to allow retailers to keep the proceeds of the bag fee, though -- that money ought to be going to the city.
I wasn't too thrilled when D.C.'s bag tax came into being found, as I too was/am a responsible reuser. But it's had a really salutary effect -- although D.C. still has far too much litter for my liking, there are relatively few plastic bags flying around these days. Now if only we could get a deposit requirement for aluminum cans, glass bottles, and (if possible) soda bottles...
It's a mistake for NYC to allow retailers to keep the proceeds of the bag fee, though -- that money ought to be going to the city.
2
Congratulations-ish. It's a good step but yes, why would stores keep the fee?! Scotland has a charity shame that should be explored for application in the city of endless possibilities. Also, re: the NYTimes caption on the image of the bag in a tree: The TRUE cost is already much higher than a nickel.
6
The grocery store I go to (although not in NYC) gives a 5 cent discount if you have your own bag. But they don't have a charge if you use their bags.
5
Can I sell my 4,000 saved bags for 3 cents each?
16
Yes, you can however you will need federal and state licences - Cost $90 each. Send a cheque and we will mail you the permits !
These bags are perfect for pet waste, and for trash can liners, since many apartments have small garbage chutes; using full-sized trash bags is wasteful. I support environmental regulations generally, but this is going to be bad for New Yorkers.
62
This is such a stupid idea. A much smarter solution - ban plastic bags.
38
And why are liquor stores exempt? Can someone please explain that?
Can someone help me understand why the companies who currently have thousands of dollars in their budgets for these bags, should get this subsidy? If the City charged the Retailers, they could pass the fee onto customers and the City could use the funds for the environment; or the City could impose and collect the tax through the retailers.
What do we suppose the retailers (like RIte Aid, Duane Reade, CVS) will do with this windfall? reduce prices?
What do we suppose the retailers (like RIte Aid, Duane Reade, CVS) will do with this windfall? reduce prices?
38
They are the ones selling the bags. They are not the ones the law is trying to discourage from using the bags. They are the ones procuring and supplying the bags and assuring that the bags work properly. They are the ones taking the risk of buying the bags up front in the hopes of selling them in the future.
Retailers will be buying far fewer bags now, and collecting a big markup on the ones they do buy, whereas before bags were simply an expense. The bag fee will allow them to reduce prices while maintaining margins. I don't know about you, but if CVS reduces prices and Duane Reade doesn't, I'm going to shop at CVS and not Duane Reade.
The retailers get it because it is a fee, not a tax. The government can't confiscate money from a private business unless it is imposed as a tax, which this fee is not. The proposal that Bloomberg tried to implement in 2008 would have imposed both a fee (5¢) and a tax (1¢). The city can't just go into a private business say, "Give us 5¢ of every bag used" unless it was imposed as a tax.
The law banning plastic bags in Sonoma County CA has been in effect for more then a year. It is wonderful to the absence of plastic bag rubbish. Everyone brings their bags or buys a paper bag. I have several reusable bags that were purchased for under one dollar. To say it impacts poor people unfairly makes no sense. Everyone benefits from the elimination of useless plastic bags.
72
Yes, and everyone in Sonoma Ca drives to the supermarket, so you are burning fuel and polluting the environment to get there, so they should now ban cars also!
Drive a paper car and use wind power!
Drive a paper car and use wind power!
5
We've been doing it for a long time here, and no one objects. Those who want to pay for paper bags, do but the rest of us are more than willing to use a canvas bag that can be purchase from the market. There is no more dog do than there used to be. Most of us buy doggy bags just for that purpose.
15
And doggy poop bags that are made from a biodegradable plastic, unlike the store plastic bags which will never completely degrade.
5
Were you being funny? You now "buy doggie bags"? So how did this address the plastic bag problem?
I knew the three years worth of plastic bags my elderly mother has been saving under the sink would be worth something one day.
113
Thanks for sharing that endearing tribute to your mother.
1
Paper bags are better for the environment and all that but... did we really need to regulate this behavior?
11
Se the photo. Clearly yes. It's not just "behavior". It does harm to the environment. The bags never go away and end up in the ocean. Get drunk on all the sugary beverages you want (I agree that should not be regulated) but let's leave the earth and the marine life alone.
4
Yes, we did. Seattle did it years ago and it has made a significant difference.
9
In Austin we just straight-up banned single-use plastic bags. You just bring your own. If you forget you buy a resuable at the store for 25 cents. Its worked pretty well. I don't hear any complaints from residents, just state legislators at the capital who aren't from Austin
83
I agree..go for a ban. Our roadsides and pantries in Austin are remarkably free of trashy bags. It takes a small effort at first to remember the reusable ones but they are much easier to use to carry the groceries. And if you need cat litter or poopscoop bags I highly recommend a print subscription to NYTimes. Our Sunday paper arrives in a perfectly usable blue plastic bag.
8
Yeah well you probably drive everywhere, Austin. You put the bags in your car, pull them out as needed, pack the groceries, and go on to the next destination in your car with your bag stash. In Manhattan, we will have to stuff our pockets, handbags, shoes, hats, etc. with bags, as we walk from store to store, pull out our bags, hold them out to be filled, schlep them home, empty them, go to the laundry mat and pay to wash them, so we can reuse them.
2
@Zachary: Yeah, and in Austin you're in your car, where it's easy to keep those reusable bags stored in the back seat or the trunk. We don't have that here.
This reminds me of a few years back, when a company headquartered in Minneapolis bought a NYC subsidiary and for the holidays blithely suggested each employee in NYC should bring to the office a home-made dish for a potluck supper - someone in NYC had to explain to the Minneapolis dudes that we don't DRIVE to work in NYC.
This reminds me of a few years back, when a company headquartered in Minneapolis bought a NYC subsidiary and for the holidays blithely suggested each employee in NYC should bring to the office a home-made dish for a potluck supper - someone in NYC had to explain to the Minneapolis dudes that we don't DRIVE to work in NYC.
2
“We bring keys when we leave the house. We bring a MetroCard to ride the subway. We bring our lunch in a lunch bag.”
and now we will carry bulky shopping bags around all day on the off-chance we will stop in for groceries en route from somewhere else. this guy Lander is out of touch and obviously never goes shopping himself.
i always know when i go out that i will need a key to get back in. i always know i will need a metrocard. both tiny things that go in a pocket. but rarely do i make an specific planned outing just to buy groceries. i do it once or twice a week if i pass the store on my way home. how can Lander not know this?
and now we will carry bulky shopping bags around all day on the off-chance we will stop in for groceries en route from somewhere else. this guy Lander is out of touch and obviously never goes shopping himself.
i always know when i go out that i will need a key to get back in. i always know i will need a metrocard. both tiny things that go in a pocket. but rarely do i make an specific planned outing just to buy groceries. i do it once or twice a week if i pass the store on my way home. how can Lander not know this?
36
Gee, life is difficult. And planning to buy groceries is so inconvenient! And the bulky bags weigh so incredibly much!
12
brave gee - You can buy nylon bags that scrunch up into almost nothing and will fit into the corner of a purse or pocket. They are much stronger than plastic and easy to wash out.
Don't be afraid.
Don't be afraid.
3
Then you will pay a nickel.
2
I have a different question here: what about the stores that don't want people bringing in their own bags for security reasons? How will that be handled by the stores and the city? Some bags are useful when carrying cider or milk jugs: they are thick enough to hold the container and used to keep them away from other groceries if they leak. Some of us reuse the bags until they are shreds. In some cases we have no choices on the bags: the stores offer only thin plastic bags that have to be doubled to carry anything.
It's sad when one can joke about plastic bag trees. But I wonder if this is not also a function of there not being enough trashcans in the city in the right places. I have watched people search for a garbage can, not find it, and then drop the dirty bag on the ground. We pay enough in taxes as it is. Why not find a way to make it easier for us to dispose of our trash instead of doing this?
It's sad when one can joke about plastic bag trees. But I wonder if this is not also a function of there not being enough trashcans in the city in the right places. I have watched people search for a garbage can, not find it, and then drop the dirty bag on the ground. We pay enough in taxes as it is. Why not find a way to make it easier for us to dispose of our trash instead of doing this?
15
As for the security question - when I lived in a plastic bag ban city, the merchants complained bitterly that they saw an increase in thefts. Gee, what a surprise, when you have people bringing in their own bags, loading up and walking right out the door. Unless you have eagle eye security, who would know the difference? Also happened when someone walked out with an item in their hand (no plastic bag, no problem, again, no one the wiser).
5
Throw bag in NYC trashcan. Gust of wind blows bag into tree. Stroll by 10 years later. Bag still in tree.
1
You have a point. But the free bags have to go.
More garbage cans PLUS a price/ban on plastic bags would be best.
More garbage cans PLUS a price/ban on plastic bags would be best.
Terrible. On top of overpriced groceries now we have to pay an extra $.05 for every single bag so the stores can pad their bottom line? Many times I pick things up at the store after running outside. What am I supposed to do, carry a grocery bag while running in the park?
40
There are little foldable shopping bags that weigh no more than an ounce and take up no more space than a small letter. The easily fit in the pocket otherwise used for your iPod.
As an added bonus, you may be able to enjoy your run in the park watching trees without plastic bags caught in the branches.
As an added bonus, you may be able to enjoy your run in the park watching trees without plastic bags caught in the branches.
13
Yes - carry a bag or 2 if possible !
Uh. You don't live in NYC, Steve from "Evanston". Don't you worry about it!
I say it's about time the plastic bags came with a price. There are way too many plastic bags everywhere. I have started carrying reusable bags to shop with, and I always have a very small packable bag with me, to unfurl & haul spur of the moment purchases.
What I don't understand is why stores get to keep the money. It should go to an environmental fund (to clean up plastic that's already in the environment, perhaps?)
What I don't understand is why stores get to keep the money. It should go to an environmental fund (to clean up plastic that's already in the environment, perhaps?)
63
If the City got to keep the money it would legally be a tax. And such a tax would require the approval of the State legislature and the Governor.
Given DeBlasio's relationship with the current Gov, I'd guess he's trying his best to avoid any policies that require State involvement.
Given DeBlasio's relationship with the current Gov, I'd guess he's trying his best to avoid any policies that require State involvement.
4
Another cost to live in NYC (albeit a small one) - glad I'm planning to sell and get out of here. The nickel-and-diming, as well as the taxes on everything that they can possible tax, never ends. All for some progressive vision that doesn't add up to a hill of beans in the end. Pure silliness.
39
Bon Voyage!
Great - the bag law helps reduce the housing shortage too!
Great idea to keep the ugly bags on anything and everything, it's not supposed. Now I hope the nickels go into some real environmental protection programs.
4
But they won't! They'll go straight into the pockets of the retailers.
1
So now New Yorkers who live in apartment buildings without garbage chutes and have to recycle paper, bottles, and cans will need to buy paper and plastic bags to carry their recyclables out to the cans on the street. Brilliant move! Did anyone think of this?
43
You an also just use and carry your can without plastic. People did that before the invention of plastic.
There are also paper and ecological bags. Big and small.
There are also paper and ecological bags. Big and small.
new conservative - you can always use bins for your recyclables. Bring them back in, and fill them again. Thanks for recycling!
I discard my trash when I leave the building as I suspect most people do. It's not practical to carry a bin down 4 flights of stairs and leave it where? - only to have to drag it back up 4 flights often with other packages when I return. I'll be forced to pay the 5 cent fee or buy more plastic and paper bags.
1
This is a good initiative, but the fee is way too low to provide a real incentive. Increase it to eat least 25 cents. A dollar would be even better, if you want people to bring their own shopping bags. Then go the way of San Francisco, and ban plastic bags in favor of materials that dissolve over time. Too many plastic bags end up in the ocean in the stomachs of the animals there. Except for the plastic bags that have been burned and turned into CO2, every single plastic bag ever produced on this planet still exists. It is a sad state of affairs.
48
Sorry NYC is not San Francisco, If we wanted to be like San Francisco we would move there!
Baby steps are still steps. Thanks City Council.
43
I wonder if people will buy less? I often went to the supermarket afte rwork and hopped on the bus with tons of shopping bags. Where am I supposed to keep spare bags? This works in cities where people drive, but not in NYC - just wait and see.
30
They charge for plastic bags all over Europe, where people don't drive in the major cities. It works out just fine. People either pay for the plastic bags or carry tote bags or the bags that fold up when not being used. It's no big deal. That's also the case in San Francisco where they will give you only paper. It's survivable.
12
Somehow stores in European cities do not give you bag(s) and somehow people survive. And sidewalks aren't full of bags.
1
In other countries there is a ban/price on plastic bags already - it works in big cities and in the country.
"If I can make it there, I'm gonna make it anywhere, It's up to you, New York..."
"If I can make it there, I'm gonna make it anywhere, It's up to you, New York..."
1
Where are we supposed to put the trash that goes down apartment buildings' garbage chutes?
48
Piece by piece, lol, I am sure your building guy who collects the stuff will be happy to see food and stuff every where and also inviting rodents! Ah yes they get collected in plastic bags too!
2
Buy the bag for 5 cents.
Your problem solved.
Your problem solved.
1
I suggest bringing it to your Councilmember's office and leaving it on their desk.
1
Can't wait for the homeless people to start offering plastic bags outside the supermarket for 6 for a quarter, and for the epic amount of dog waste to hit the streets.
18
Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal all charge a nickel for plastic bags. There's no homeless people selling bags or any dog waste on the sidewalks or parks.
51
Yes and also has free public education and healthcare for all. So more taxes and no services
Yes they also give you free college and medical care, here we only subsidize the store owners. Great progressive mayor, The city allow to demolish a house for elderly people at 1st and 24th to build a luxury apartment complex. This mayor is worst than Bloomberg
Good news but too bad that part of the fee won't go to environmental programs in NYC.
79
This is why New Yorkers never have had to buy trash can liners - up until now. Now sales will go up, unless everyone concludes that 5 cents is still the cheapest way to get them.
29
Good point.
Didn't realize that they sold products specifically to line trash cans!
Didn't realize that they sold products specifically to line trash cans!
2
They didn't teach you this is school or you didn't see them in the bag aisle in the store?
Five cents a day for a garbage bag = $18.25 annually. I'll pay the nickel.
1
Why are stores collecting and KEEPING the fee? Why isn't the city collecting the surcharge and putting these funds toward something environmentally conscious?
149
Sure - there's no way that a silly nuisance tax could dampen economic behavior and diminish the general good.
2
Ha Ha Charlie, joke's on you.
I'm a retailer. I'm going to charge and keep 25 cents. Or maybe 50 cents.
Whatever I can get away with.
It will help pay for the unfair 4% tax the city charges on top of my crazy high rent.
I'm a retailer. I'm going to charge and keep 25 cents. Or maybe 50 cents.
Whatever I can get away with.
It will help pay for the unfair 4% tax the city charges on top of my crazy high rent.
You must understand the store owners can not afford the cost of the bags this progressive major has to subsidize them.
1
We also USE a lot of those bags for disposing of cat litter & garbage, to store food, and to PUT OUT 5 CENT RECYCLABLE BOTTLES for the needy to collect. Are we supposed to line up the 5 cent bottles on the sidewalk now? Because I'm not BUYING a plastic bag just to put those out separately.
Secondly, banning both paper and plastic bags - nice going, knuckleheads! I just need to develop my skills so I can carry stuff without having it drip all over me as I walk home. Plus, of course I want my vegetables and my powdered laundry detergent in the SAME bag ... NOT.
Last (but not least): PLEASE PUBLISH the council members' names and how they voted, so I can take that into account next time *I* go to vote and one of them is on the ballot. WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW.