Presuming all Republicans endorse this stupidity is the same sort of intolerance that assumes all transgender people are perverts.
9
Just think - the transgender people have been forced to use the wrong bathroom for most of their lives. How do you think they feel?
12
The "bathroom" issue is the worst part of the NC law not because of what Bruni discusses but because it distracts from the more pernicious sections that legalize blatant discrimination against gay folk and prevents localities from barring such discrimination. It's the latter we should be declaiming about.
40
For this, the ERA was lost. When we've settled this pee pee nonsense, can we please pass the ERA?
23
Why is it that no one is talking about how swiftly this bill was passes and about the mens rea attacment to the bill that makes it so much more difficult to prosecute CEO's for their criminal behavior? Tempest in a toilet indeed!!
23
No national ID cards, but carry your birth certificate in the event that you'll need a public toilet.
22
How do handle high school locker-rooms where student/athletes will disrobe and shower?
5
The entire GOP seems to be imploding in an almost slow motion fashion. There is no doubt, from Donald to this kind of irrelevant garbage the GOP is flailing. The GOP is now incapable to function as a cohesive political party.
Now that the GOP is on it's back I ask this question: Why can't we take full advantage of their perilous position?
If the GOP is having a public seizure isn't the most merciful, and thankful, act to put it out of it's misery? And ours.
There is no better time than now to "help" the GOP realign. A well placed and careful coup de grâce must be considered the best thing we can do for the GOP, and for America.
Help the GOP rebuild, to have their Renaissance. But to have a true re-birth one must first die. We are here to help the GOP with their Renaissance but first this GOP must die. And we're here to help along that process.
Vote in November, in hordes. Bury this GOP once and for all. Help the GOPers rebuild if they can. But mostly help America.
Now that the GOP is on it's back I ask this question: Why can't we take full advantage of their perilous position?
If the GOP is having a public seizure isn't the most merciful, and thankful, act to put it out of it's misery? And ours.
There is no better time than now to "help" the GOP realign. A well placed and careful coup de grâce must be considered the best thing we can do for the GOP, and for America.
Help the GOP rebuild, to have their Renaissance. But to have a true re-birth one must first die. We are here to help the GOP with their Renaissance but first this GOP must die. And we're here to help along that process.
Vote in November, in hordes. Bury this GOP once and for all. Help the GOPers rebuild if they can. But mostly help America.
21
Could we stop talking about bathrooms and talk about poverty and war for example?
It is ridiculous to make laws about which bathrooms people should use, ridiculous to talk about it. Even little children know which bathroom to use.
It is ridiculous to make laws about which bathrooms people should use, ridiculous to talk about it. Even little children know which bathroom to use.
15
God forbid the GOP should put any legislative or administrative limits on corporations who pollute, steal or become directly responsible for huge economic downturns. However, they are happy to put restrictions on our sexual and excretory activities, tell us who we can marry, and what our personal religious beliefs should be.
35
Leave aside the utter silliness of the concept of “gender identity”; sex is a matter of indisputable biological fact. A person with XY chromosomes is a man. He will never be a woman, even if he engages surgeons to mutilate his body and chemists to introduce alien hormones. While the reason for the delusion that a man is a woman is not wholly clear, a delusion it is.
That said, in my more than half century of occasionally employing public restrooms, not once have I ever considered the anatomy of the person next to me. Indeed, such is a violation of the cardinal rule of male bathroom etiquette: EYES ABOVE THE SHOULDERS AT ALL TIMES!!
So, why, pray tell, are leftists, like the kooks in Charlotte, determined to pick fights? Likely, very few men care about the presence of a woman (however dressed) in their facilities; many women might not reciprocate that tolerance. But until the left decided that it was “discriminatory” to expect men to use the men’s room, the issue simply never arose.
We KNOW that girls, quite properly, object to an anatomical male sharing their locker rooms. And there’s nothing wrong with the. Why elevate the delusions of an infinitesimal fraction of boys – that they’re really girls – above the desires of the XX crowd?
Certain things are simply not matters of subjective opinion, sex being one of them. But when there as NEVER been a case where this presented a problem – and likely never will be under the NC law– why does the left INSIST on picking fights?
That said, in my more than half century of occasionally employing public restrooms, not once have I ever considered the anatomy of the person next to me. Indeed, such is a violation of the cardinal rule of male bathroom etiquette: EYES ABOVE THE SHOULDERS AT ALL TIMES!!
So, why, pray tell, are leftists, like the kooks in Charlotte, determined to pick fights? Likely, very few men care about the presence of a woman (however dressed) in their facilities; many women might not reciprocate that tolerance. But until the left decided that it was “discriminatory” to expect men to use the men’s room, the issue simply never arose.
We KNOW that girls, quite properly, object to an anatomical male sharing their locker rooms. And there’s nothing wrong with the. Why elevate the delusions of an infinitesimal fraction of boys – that they’re really girls – above the desires of the XX crowd?
Certain things are simply not matters of subjective opinion, sex being one of them. But when there as NEVER been a case where this presented a problem – and likely never will be under the NC law– why does the left INSIST on picking fights?
17
The first sentence says it all. Trump is right!! There was no issue about toilet usage in the past - NO issue whatsoever. Suddenly, it has become THE ISSUE in a Presidential race. Just goes to show how Politics has gone down the toilet. Let sleeping dogs lie. But these days that is asking for Pluto considering debates have become debates about genitals. So please stop making transgenders scapegoats. It is politics as usual. At least Trump speaks the truth ( for once!! ), political correctness be damned.
7
The notion that some people use locker rooms that match their gender identity — and that allowing them to do so imperils children -- is demonstrably more true (cf: Hastert, Sandusky) than the alleged transgender bathroom apocalypse.
18
What most people don't understand about those opposing the laws to let transgender or anyone use the bathroom of their choice: It's not the transgender who pose the risk. It's the straight male predators who will use the law to gain access to womens' bathrooms and locker rooms. And don't think it won't happen. These predators feel like they just won the lottery. The choice make transgenders feel emotionally good or put women and girls at risk for physical harm.
18
Predators are predators. Men who pretend to be trans women and/or are trans women have been sexually assaulting children & cis women in a variety of locations including public restrooms for a very long time. These laws won't change that & they won't increase those crimes either. Why? For starters it won't increase the number of any men/trans men who would take such a risk. NO ONE is going to monitor restroom doors to check people's genitals. They'd have to check ALL adults to be sure.
The Right is quite disingenuous to all of a sudden be concerned with sexual assault in any meaningful way (except maybe for some female elected officials).
The Right perpetuates the Rape Myths in lockstep. Women are responsible for their own rapes; because of the way we dress, because we go to unsafe places and practice unsafe acts. Don't go out at night, don't drink, don't dress to sexy, don't go to a man's hotel room/home unless you are asking for it.
FACT: 75% of all victims know their rapists, 25% of rapes are committed by strangers. Victims of acquaintance/date rape aren't often believed. What am I saying? No type of rape is beleived. It was only 50 years ago that states began to pass laws against marital rape! Even most women can't articulate how unsafe we are in the world because for some to do so would induce paralysis: we're not safe in public, we're not safe at home. Even most women joke about going to the restroom in pairs! Restrooms won't be any less safe than they already are!
The Right is quite disingenuous to all of a sudden be concerned with sexual assault in any meaningful way (except maybe for some female elected officials).
The Right perpetuates the Rape Myths in lockstep. Women are responsible for their own rapes; because of the way we dress, because we go to unsafe places and practice unsafe acts. Don't go out at night, don't drink, don't dress to sexy, don't go to a man's hotel room/home unless you are asking for it.
FACT: 75% of all victims know their rapists, 25% of rapes are committed by strangers. Victims of acquaintance/date rape aren't often believed. What am I saying? No type of rape is beleived. It was only 50 years ago that states began to pass laws against marital rape! Even most women can't articulate how unsafe we are in the world because for some to do so would induce paralysis: we're not safe in public, we're not safe at home. Even most women joke about going to the restroom in pairs! Restrooms won't be any less safe than they already are!
12
Women's bathrooms have stalls ensuring privacy for every user.
This GOP kerfuffle is a solution looking for a problem.
Attacking transgender humans is akin to attacking other minorities.
And akin to the GOP redefining religious liberty into the freedom to discriminate against gays.
This GOP kerfuffle is a solution looking for a problem.
Attacking transgender humans is akin to attacking other minorities.
And akin to the GOP redefining religious liberty into the freedom to discriminate against gays.
22
The lies about transgendered people attacking children in bathrooms are pure bigotry. The sad truth is that children are more likely to be molested and/or abused by parents, family members, trusted family friends, coaches, priests, pastors, teachers or principals than by strangers, transgendered or not. Let's recognize that politicians are using this false crisis, once again, to rile people up and into voting for them. It is pure snake oil salesmanship, and some sadly misinformed people are falling for it.
29
It never ceases to amaze me how often "potty mouthed billionaire" Trumpet gets it right!
"Most misanthropes are easy to understand because we blurt out the simple truths that most people think but never say." ~ FLORENCE KING
"Most misanthropes are easy to understand because we blurt out the simple truths that most people think but never say." ~ FLORENCE KING
9
I find it pretty amusing that most of the people having a fit over the notion of transgender women using the ladies loo are men. They are attempting to mask their prejudice by claiming they are "defending" females against the horrible, terrifying specter of (gasp!) women and children sharing a bathroom with (horrors!) a MAN, like every man in the planet, if he steps into the ladies, will be suddenly overcome with the urge to sexually molest somebody. It's utter foolishness. I don't need some ridiculous politician "defending" me while I'm relieving myself. Men, women and children share bathrooms every day all over the world and transgender people having been choosing the bathroom they're comfortable in for as long as there have been public bathrooms. I would be infinitely more comfortable sharing a bathroom with a trans person than I would be with some of these gentalia-obsessed politicians who are demonizing yet another group of Americans in a disgusting effort to stir up their radical base. All of these crazy laws are nothing more than their attempt to divert the attention of Americans from their real agenda, which is to rob us all blind, while we're dragged into yet another pointless, idiotic "culture war".
36
Cruz's stance is absolutely classic. He supports preemptive action to thwart an invented "problem" for which there is no evidence that posits the potential victims as perpetrators. In other words, without the slightest example except the unveiling of a perverse imagination that in fact defies what is known about the psychology of gender identification, Cruz and his fellow hysterics are openly threatening the safety of transgender men and women, who would be at risk entering a bathroom that did not comport with their presentation. It's that underlying imperative - punishment in the guise of "protection" - that characterizes the worst aspect of the conservative canon, something that conservatives of conscience should openly reject.
10
I thought profiling was on the no-no list and that it was dangerous because it promotes bigotry. Who out there thinks they can spot a transgender person with impunity? Is someone going to have to stand at the bathroom door to check birth certificates? This whole issue is simply about fearful people trying to legislate morals. The right-wing wants less government interference EXCEPT in what they perceive as issues of morality. They want to peer into our bedrooms, our religious standing and now our bathrooms but they don't want the EPA to protect the environment or the Labor Department to protect workers or fair decisions to be issued by the Supreme Court or women to make their own decisions about reproduction or for NASA to study the potential of climate change, etc, etc.
I'm more frightened of the reality of people walking into a building carrying a gun than I am of someone watching me walk into a bathroom stall.
I'm more frightened of the reality of people walking into a building carrying a gun than I am of someone watching me walk into a bathroom stall.
14
The North Carolina law is actually progressive. Most sates simply segregate public restrooms by sex. But as the North Carolina governor explains on his website. “This law simply says people must use the bathroom of the sex listed on their birth certificate. Anyone who has undergone a sex change can change their sex on their birth certificate.” In other words, North Carolina accepts the claim that people can actually change their sex after birth, although there is no documented example of this ever occurring. The governor might have meant anyone who has undergone “sex-reassignment surgery.” The American Medical Association endorses hormone sex-reassignment surgery as one form “of therapeutic treatment for many people diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder,” but the AMA doesn’t contend it changes anyone’s sex or gender. So, North Carolina has taken a bold step out in front of medical science. In fact, it may have gone too far by encouraging some people who suffer from Gender Identity Disorder to undergo a radical surgery that is normally recommended only in the most extreme cases.
4
In all honestly, consider the following:
A man who was born as a woman would never use a urinal in the Men's. It just wouldn't work. Also, he would hardly want to draw attention to his situation?
Likewise, a woman who was born a man wouldn't even find a urinal in the Ladies Room. And again, neither would she wish to draw attention to her gender-identity.
In each case, both the man and the woman would just go into a stall to...GO.
So, what's the big deal?
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
A man who was born as a woman would never use a urinal in the Men's. It just wouldn't work. Also, he would hardly want to draw attention to his situation?
Likewise, a woman who was born a man wouldn't even find a urinal in the Ladies Room. And again, neither would she wish to draw attention to her gender-identity.
In each case, both the man and the woman would just go into a stall to...GO.
So, what's the big deal?
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
7
My thoughts about this column and the 162 comments is that the entire subject is ludicrous. I am astounded at the prejudice, ignorance, and obsession evident in our country today. I also feel embarrassed. God help us and them.
2
Cruz and his GOP followers are such hypocrites.
When the discussion is about stricter gun control laws, they argue average people have the right to carry weapons to protect themselves or go hunting. Only the evil minded criminals are the ones who will maniacally shoot innocent people. They argue that keeping guns from all to protect a few against those perverted minds is useless, because the twisted souls who want to murder innocents will find a gun regardless of restrictions and murder anyway.
Yet allowing transgender men access to female bathrooms will put young
girls at risk. Let's be realistic, Any predator who wants to prey on young girls is going to find far more easily accessible places to do so, and the real sickos are not going to be stopped by a bathroom door. As other readers have pointed out, it is the mentally unbalanced uncle, teacher, coach or priest who is more likely to prey on a child than a transgender woman.
When the discussion is about stricter gun control laws, they argue average people have the right to carry weapons to protect themselves or go hunting. Only the evil minded criminals are the ones who will maniacally shoot innocent people. They argue that keeping guns from all to protect a few against those perverted minds is useless, because the twisted souls who want to murder innocents will find a gun regardless of restrictions and murder anyway.
Yet allowing transgender men access to female bathrooms will put young
girls at risk. Let's be realistic, Any predator who wants to prey on young girls is going to find far more easily accessible places to do so, and the real sickos are not going to be stopped by a bathroom door. As other readers have pointed out, it is the mentally unbalanced uncle, teacher, coach or priest who is more likely to prey on a child than a transgender woman.
8
Come out West. Our public restrooms are generally clean, even out on the interstates. What is it about the Eastern Seaboard that causes people to pee on the toilet seat? It's one of the great mysteries of life.
9
Two questions hanging over this grave situation: how will the right-wing bathroom police enforce the ban? And how will they know who is what? Will they now require a full body scan before entering? Or just a quickie feel-up? Will there be CCTV [snigger snigger]?
The republican right seems full of individuals perpetually sex obsessed. With other people's. And their fears and desires hide frequently behind the fake guise of 'protecting' women and girls. They seem to slip into puerile fantasies of genitalia being exposed to them in a bathroom. Somewhere, anywhere, and will it be soon? And wot's it like [nudge nudge wink wink]?
I am losing hope the politicians of the right are capable of learning anything or that they will ever grow up.
And then there is the small matter of actually doing something productive and meaningful for the people they serve instead of making themselves laughingstock for the world.
The republican right seems full of individuals perpetually sex obsessed. With other people's. And their fears and desires hide frequently behind the fake guise of 'protecting' women and girls. They seem to slip into puerile fantasies of genitalia being exposed to them in a bathroom. Somewhere, anywhere, and will it be soon? And wot's it like [nudge nudge wink wink]?
I am losing hope the politicians of the right are capable of learning anything or that they will ever grow up.
And then there is the small matter of actually doing something productive and meaningful for the people they serve instead of making themselves laughingstock for the world.
11
It is very very sad when some made up fear becomes an actual law. Forgetting about how dumb the law is, the real question is how are they going to enforce it? Hire TSA screeners for every public restroom in the State? Lol.
By the way I think Aliens are sharing your bathrooms and I saw Elvis walk into one the other day. Let's pass another law.
Maybe I'll live to see the day people start waking up to the fact that the easiest way to avoid talking about real issues and problems is to make up scary ones that don't exist. I doubt I will though.
By the way I think Aliens are sharing your bathrooms and I saw Elvis walk into one the other day. Let's pass another law.
Maybe I'll live to see the day people start waking up to the fact that the easiest way to avoid talking about real issues and problems is to make up scary ones that don't exist. I doubt I will though.
8
My recollection is that in middle school/high school, phys. ed was required, and the showers/locker rooms were communal. I have no objection to adults of whatever gender inclination using restrooms with separate stalls. But I DO object to the idea that 12/13 year old girls or boys must use communal showers/changing rooms with other kids who may define themselves as one gender while they retain the genitalia of the other. Not a question about molestation but about privacy. Why do so many "news" stories, opinion pieces about this issue ignore that the initial story was about a high school kid who was offered the use of a private restroom, but wanted to force "his" gender definition of "himself" on "his" classmates?
5
Always be wary of politicians who pretend to defend morality. It is always a smoke screen to cover their lack of compassion for others, or their own mendacity, or their own lack of morality in their own lives.
15
In some states putting your genitalia into view is a sex crime of indecent exposure which, once convicted, the person becomes a registered sex offender for life.
I recall reading but don't remember in which state a 16 year old boy was incarcerated and a registered sex offender for peeing on a tree. He couldn't even finish high school, let alone go to college or get a decent job.
The bathroom law is a tragedy waiting to happen. Think about how many peed on a tree when we were young, how many have gone to work and forgot to pull the zipper. Now the bathroom.
The problem with such law is that some judges will not use common sense, but follow the law literally and use someone husband or son as an example.
I recall reading but don't remember in which state a 16 year old boy was incarcerated and a registered sex offender for peeing on a tree. He couldn't even finish high school, let alone go to college or get a decent job.
The bathroom law is a tragedy waiting to happen. Think about how many peed on a tree when we were young, how many have gone to work and forgot to pull the zipper. Now the bathroom.
The problem with such law is that some judges will not use common sense, but follow the law literally and use someone husband or son as an example.
3
North Carolina’s bathroom law was passed to override an amendment to the Charleston City Council that struck out entirely a clause that permitted schools and business to provide public restrooms for women only or for men only. The eliminated clause specified that the code’s prohibition against sex discrimination did not apply to “restrooms, shower rooms, bathhouses and similar facilities which are in their nature distinctly private.” The amended code prohibited discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, marital status, familial status, sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression, or national origin in public restrooms as in employment and housing. The ordinance didn’t limit freedom of bathroom choice only to transgender men or transgender women. The ordinance allowed anyone to use the restroom of their choice. For example, a man could use the women’s room simply because women’s rooms are normally kept cleaner than men’s rooms, or for any other reason.
4
So, will NC start requiring a specially encoded state-issued PRID (Public Restroom Identification) card? The encoding would only open the new locks on the facilities appropriate to your state-determined sex. You get the card at the newly established Departent of Internal/External Affairs. The department will only be staffed two days a month and only in the State Capital. Your birth certificate will be required to document your claim of gender. The clerk on duty will perform a visual examination of the applicant's genitalia. The clerk will be empowered to deny the applicant the state sanctioned PRID on the grounds that it violates his/her religious freedom to do so. There will be a non-refundable fee, and the PRID must be renewed yearly.
7
Seems this piece is encumbered by another bit of Trump mania, the part about Trump stepping out of his now supposedly contrived campaign persona in favor of a comment that passes as garden variety common sense.
The heart of the growing awareness of the fact and impact of gender ambiguity has real life gravitas far beyond the question of how to manage the use of public restrooms against the paranoid notion that uncertain sexual orientation necessarily equates to the fact or the latent predilection to perversion.
What is certain is that there are few life issues more profound and potentially destructive than the one that arises in the face of a fundamental and encompassing conflict between one’s indisputable birth physiological sexual make up and a deep and abiding psychological certainty that they are not that gender.
Denying the reality and or legitimacy of that conflict and acceptance of its individual resolution in a way that fits within the reasonable expectation of the broad social and cultural context is the height of presumption and prejudice engendered by something we fear and fail to rationally comprehend.
The heart of the growing awareness of the fact and impact of gender ambiguity has real life gravitas far beyond the question of how to manage the use of public restrooms against the paranoid notion that uncertain sexual orientation necessarily equates to the fact or the latent predilection to perversion.
What is certain is that there are few life issues more profound and potentially destructive than the one that arises in the face of a fundamental and encompassing conflict between one’s indisputable birth physiological sexual make up and a deep and abiding psychological certainty that they are not that gender.
Denying the reality and or legitimacy of that conflict and acceptance of its individual resolution in a way that fits within the reasonable expectation of the broad social and cultural context is the height of presumption and prejudice engendered by something we fear and fail to rationally comprehend.
2
Every year, 3000 children are slain, with many more injured or maimed for life, as a consequence of our failure to protect them from the unregulated profusion of guns. As far as I know, no danger to children, Ted Cruz's daughters included, has ever resulted from assaults by transgendered people, in or outside of public restrooms. Zero. So here we are, stoking up fear, capitalizing on loathing, under the false banner of keeping children safe.
If this isn't idiotic, then it is downright hypocritical. What would Jesus say?
www.endthemadnessnow.org
If this isn't idiotic, then it is downright hypocritical. What would Jesus say?
www.endthemadnessnow.org
13
Little girls should not be going to the bathroom by them selves. They should have a Mom or an adult with them. Most women go to the bathroom as a group any way, so whats the big deal.... Look, anything can happen to anyone either with or without the transgender rule thing....how many women or men have been attacked or killed late at night in a rest stop off the Interstate....It's just goofy.... and I agree all this was done so as to rally the base...get 'em spun up over pee and poop....now that the lowest common denominator.....yeesh!
3
Love it all, but especially the last line!
2
"The notion that we should prevent transgender people from using bathrooms that match their gender identity..."
Since either law, to allow or prevent, is unenforceable without stationing a cop at every bathroom to check "equipment" what exactly was the necessity for either law? If we go beyond public bathrooms and enter the realm of grammar school, high school, college or public locker rooms do we still need a law either way?
Has our society until now been bigoted against both sexes by not allowing the full and free use of any facility to any of the sexes? Why were these particular locations divided based only upon sex? Has it been wrong all these years and just now we as a species realize how wrong it was to divide based upon sex?
The only way to be fair to all is to remove the bonds of sexual identity that prevent us from freely using these particular locations and throw them open for use by all regardless of sexual identity.
Since either law, to allow or prevent, is unenforceable without stationing a cop at every bathroom to check "equipment" what exactly was the necessity for either law? If we go beyond public bathrooms and enter the realm of grammar school, high school, college or public locker rooms do we still need a law either way?
Has our society until now been bigoted against both sexes by not allowing the full and free use of any facility to any of the sexes? Why were these particular locations divided based only upon sex? Has it been wrong all these years and just now we as a species realize how wrong it was to divide based upon sex?
The only way to be fair to all is to remove the bonds of sexual identity that prevent us from freely using these particular locations and throw them open for use by all regardless of sexual identity.
2
Why waste the National Guard on patrolling the Mexican border, when they can be called to duty right in their hometowns patrolling shopping mall bathrooms? We mobilized the country after 9-11, and we can do it again for the war on transgenders. Bruni is right that it is ridiculous for Cruz to make this an issue in the Presidential campaign, when, as Bruni points out, there are so many more important things that need to be discussed. It points to the danger of the Religious Right having a voice in our nation's governance, and explains why their favorite candidates haven't won a national office (and Cruz won't be the exception).
16
I wonder what the Republican Party will do, now that the policies of the extremely conservative edge of their party are bad for business. We've seen them willing to throw out the "get the government off our backs" and " personal freedom" identities (abortion restrictions, for example) to pander to the conservative religious constituency, but the backlash from the business community over this one must leave many in their ranks wondering who they are. Good thing we don't have bathrooms segregated by party. I'd ban them from mine.
18
I agree that we need to protect children. We need to protect the children of North Carolina, Mississippi an the other 48 states from the bigotry of the people who created this tempest in a toilet. I fear for the welfare of any children who live in the households or who attend the churches where these odious pieces of legislation were crafted and promoted.
22
I disagree with most everything about Trump but agree with him on this. That said, I find the ability of Democrats to be shocked at Republicans around social issues remarkably disingenuous. Democrats simply move when the light is green and the Republicans wait till its yellow. In neither case, do I see leadership on social issues. Of course Hilary is now pro-everything having gone from supporting the Defense of Marriage Act and in 2010 her now disclosed email demand that the State Department change forms from Parent1 and Parent 2 to Mother and Father.
Bernie has been consistent ... but he is not a Democrat
Bernie has been consistent ... but he is not a Democrat
Frank, After many years of reading your columns, I finally have found ONE that I can agree with.
1
Frank Bruni is much too naive in applauding Trump. He blew the "state's rights" whistle on Fox News, which is the only code that matters in these matters.
Seriously are you ever going to look at Trump with clear eyes and break out of conventional media tropes?? Trump took a couple of swipes at moderation a week before primaries in mostly swing states, which will be followed by primaries in socially liberal enclaves with enough delegates to clinch the nomination. Big deal.
1
North Carolina's new law is rather all-encompassing regarding the limiting of civil rights afforded to the LGBT - but *naturally* the bill supporters focus and promote the predator-in-the-bathroom scenario which no reasonable person would support. It's a false distraction from what the law DOES allow: the ability to limit or destroy the opportunity for LGBT people to live where they wish, work where they wish, shop where they wish, and pursue happiness just like any other American citizen. Yes they will be using bathrooms as well, but then again, they have been for some time and no one's noticed.
9
Fun little side bar of gendered restroom history which gets glossed over in these debates: before the late 1800s, very nearly every public restroom in places affected by the Industrial Revolution (England, America, Europe, etc.) was singularly gendered for adult men, who were regarded as the sole agents of everyday commerce.
Women, widely deprived of citizenship, financial independence, and autonomy with mobility, were kept to the confines of the domestic sphere alongside children (who held the same legal standing as adult women). It was only after the rise of two inventions when restroom accommodations began to expand with discretely gendered facilities in public gathering places.
The first invention was retail merchandising and the birth of the department store. The second was the safety bicycle, which afforded (mostly white) women with greater autonomy and the means to leave the domestic sphere, to travel to spaces which began marketing to them (and to profit from the increased traffic of women as consumers), and to go farther from domestic privies.
So contrary to fatuous claims that some kind of "natural order" based on the morphological sex of the toilet user underpins what our world inherited, the origin of the gendered washroom in public spaces of assembly (including workplaces) had nearly everything to do with the merchant's motive to make greater profits and recognize that women with wallets needed to relieve themselves in order to stay longer and spend more.
Women, widely deprived of citizenship, financial independence, and autonomy with mobility, were kept to the confines of the domestic sphere alongside children (who held the same legal standing as adult women). It was only after the rise of two inventions when restroom accommodations began to expand with discretely gendered facilities in public gathering places.
The first invention was retail merchandising and the birth of the department store. The second was the safety bicycle, which afforded (mostly white) women with greater autonomy and the means to leave the domestic sphere, to travel to spaces which began marketing to them (and to profit from the increased traffic of women as consumers), and to go farther from domestic privies.
So contrary to fatuous claims that some kind of "natural order" based on the morphological sex of the toilet user underpins what our world inherited, the origin of the gendered washroom in public spaces of assembly (including workplaces) had nearly everything to do with the merchant's motive to make greater profits and recognize that women with wallets needed to relieve themselves in order to stay longer and spend more.
4
What is the ONE element that Republicans use during every election cycle? Fear. Remember Ebola during the 2014 mid terms? Yup, we were "this close" to all being wiped out but the Republicans saved us- NOT Now it's transgendered people in bathrooms. Even Lee Atwater, one of the Godfathers of Fear, must be spinning in his grave saying "Really guys, bathrooms? This is the best you can do to scare 320 Americans?"
3
Sure, Trump is OK with Caitlyn or Elton. But what about one of the " regular" transgender people? With Trump I think it's more the wealth and fame that matters.
3
Mr. Bruni correctly notes that transgendered men and women look like ... well ... men and women. I hereby propose that, in North Carolina, natural born women be posted at women's bathroom doors to be pecker checkers - manual pat-downs to make sure there's no penises down there for sure.
1
Which bathrooms transgenders should use has become an issue because transgenders have made it so. I wish they'd just gone on going where they identify rather than bringing on the "All Gender" restrooms implemented at my workplace. This is NOT a solution. It's creating discomfort for many as a cause for the few. I've been around, I've seen it all, but I don't want free-for-all restrooms in the workplace -- this is an ignorant-of-hormonal-reality tyranny. There IS a binary for most of us, there ARE strident differences; if YOU don't identify keep it to yourself. I have seen many butches in the women's room and feel no compunction to check their genitals, but I can tell you that as a straight female in a mixed potty I WILL BE PEEKING in the stalls to see what I can see! And what straight male at a university wouldn't either?
4
The NC law governing bathrooms will be unenforced and is in fact unenforceable. It is a symbolic assertion that the state does not recognize the principle that individuals can define their own gender according to their feelings rather their birth bodies. Opponents to the law must recognize this to be the case. They want the state to affirm that principle. But states should have nothing to say about such matters until someone actually comes forward with a documented complaint. And if such a complaint came forward, it would concern a person's actions, not the ontological question of what gender might be.
6
Surprisingly, on occasion, Donald Trump makes a small comment which makes complete and common sense. On this occasion, he made a simple and sensible comment when "weighing in" on which bathrooms transgender people should use. His remark: "The ones they want" seems such a simple answer that one would think it emanated from a Democrat. Or a non-member of the Supreme Court. But, certainly not from a "running" Republican. Thank you, Mr. Trump.....sometimes there is hope offered in small ways.
3
In 1962, as a young (male) recent college graduate, I found myself in urgent need of a mens' room in St. Nazaire, on the west coast of France. After much panicked fumbling about, I was directed to a public restroom, apparently one of many located under the boardwalk along the beach. There was a woman attendant collecting fees for use of the facilities and I was calmly ushered into to one of the many stalls lining the walls of the large sparkling clean bathroom. Wondering a bit about why a woman was an attendant in a mens' room, it was not until after I finished my doings and was leaving the place that I noticed that there were both men and women, of various ages, using the facilities, sharing stalls and sinks next to one another. While one or more traumas may have scarred me for life since then, it was most certainly not from this event. Indeed, I smiled as I left and thought it an amazingly sane and economic social accommodation; needs were met, cleanliness was served, civility prevailed, and life went on. And, again, that was in 1962, in iniquitous Europe, and chaos did not ensue (at least not for reasons of potty proclivities.) ..... In the home of the brave and the land of the free, we can do better than rage over where one might pee.
17
There never was nor will there ever be any toilet nor closet nor water fountain nor door where the ancestors or the heirs of enslaved black Africans or Jim Crowed colored Americans ever had any real civil secular legal options.
Either you were "colored" or a "Negro" or you were white and American and a person. Race and color, unlike LGBT status, faith and national origin etc,, is an enduring undeniable physical evolutionary biological DNA genetic stained American truthful reality.
Will there be signs designating toilets for genetic men and women? Will there be genetic tests for gender at toilets? Will there be genetic gender cops?
What next? No men nor women wearing clothes of the "wrong" gender or using perfume and colognes intended for another gender. No men nor women getting their hair done by the "wrong" type of barber or beautician.
"I wish I knew how it would feel to be free." Nina Simone
Either you were "colored" or a "Negro" or you were white and American and a person. Race and color, unlike LGBT status, faith and national origin etc,, is an enduring undeniable physical evolutionary biological DNA genetic stained American truthful reality.
Will there be signs designating toilets for genetic men and women? Will there be genetic tests for gender at toilets? Will there be genetic gender cops?
What next? No men nor women wearing clothes of the "wrong" gender or using perfume and colognes intended for another gender. No men nor women getting their hair done by the "wrong" type of barber or beautician.
"I wish I knew how it would feel to be free." Nina Simone
5
"...the gender on their birth certificates." Why not "their physical gender?" Transgendered people suffer from a psychological condition, not physical. Why is America forced to affirm that transgendered people are what they are only in their own minds and no where else? Must we tell people suffering from anorexia that they are indeed overweight? Using public opprobrium (and legal jeopardy?) to dictate that anatomical males are not male is a 2 +2 = 5 moment in American life.
7
Cruz, the one who starts every post primary campaign event where he comes in second with "God bless the good people of ....."(insert state), fears that his young daughters and those of others will be molested by transgender women in the loo.
Fact is that transgender woman forced to using a men's room at a public facility, e.g. a truck stop, in the not so great state of North Carolina would be extremely vulnerable to not only ridicule but also to physical attacks.
Thanks to our Republican homophobic and oh-so-religious legislators, the US is again the butt of the joke in the press of other advanced nations. They are wondering who will be the potty police responsible for examining the private parts of those needing to pee.
Proud to be an American? Hardly......
.
Fact is that transgender woman forced to using a men's room at a public facility, e.g. a truck stop, in the not so great state of North Carolina would be extremely vulnerable to not only ridicule but also to physical attacks.
Thanks to our Republican homophobic and oh-so-religious legislators, the US is again the butt of the joke in the press of other advanced nations. They are wondering who will be the potty police responsible for examining the private parts of those needing to pee.
Proud to be an American? Hardly......
.
13
The way the Charlotte was written enabled anyone to use any bathroom they wished. This made it legal for ANY man to use the woman's room (or the girl's room at schools) and ANY woman to use male facilities. The NC law superseded the Charlotte law and went beyond bathroom usage. The NC law also has a clause that prevents municipalities from raising the minimum wage higher than the state minimum.
Two issues: The Charlotte law was too broad for what it was trying to do/ The NC law removed civil rights and set the minimum wage at the state level.
Two bad laws....
Two issues: The Charlotte law was too broad for what it was trying to do/ The NC law removed civil rights and set the minimum wage at the state level.
Two bad laws....
11
I really don't care who pees where, as long as it's not on the floor and you wash your hands afterwards.
What I don't understand is why someone wants to make a fuss about which toilet he or she uses. If you've now identified yourself as a sex that wasn't the one your mother figured you were when she first checked, and if you believe that no one is going to say, "Whoops. Wrong toilet, dear," then go for it. In and out; quietly; no fuss, no muss.
Stop making this a tempest in a pee pot.
What I don't understand is why someone wants to make a fuss about which toilet he or she uses. If you've now identified yourself as a sex that wasn't the one your mother figured you were when she first checked, and if you believe that no one is going to say, "Whoops. Wrong toilet, dear," then go for it. In and out; quietly; no fuss, no muss.
Stop making this a tempest in a pee pot.
6
Alas, much ado about absolutely nothing.
2
Surely you could have done a far better job of finding someone intelligent and compassionate to be your go to spokesperson. Yet again the Times turns to a disgusting politician to sell papers instead of posting an editorial that doesn't ask us to "Let’s listen to Trump."
Trump’s “New York values” occasionally shine through his veneer of trash pandering. He has a functional approach to bathrooms. He blew up the anti-abortion movement by pointing out that outlawing a woman’s right to choose is the first step on a slippery slope toward a police state.
3
It's getting profoundly insane. Mr. Bruni, please. Why in heaven's name think for one minute that Mr. Trump has had an epiphany bc he, for a minute or so, is saying he supports this issue? Tomorrow if not earlier he'll say the opposite and could care less. When is the national media going to get it that Mr. Trump along with Mr. Cruz are out of their minds? The rest of the world is starting to "get it" and are scared. People, for God's sake THINK. One of these candidates will be the nominee with access to nuclear codes. if they win. Mr. Bruni, you're trying to to make sweet out of sour here. You and the rest of the national media better start informing the public as to just how crazy the GOP has become, where their major burning issue is who uses a toilet. Soon.
1
North Carolina would not have been the first state I thought would pass such a retrogressed law. It would be its neighbor to the south. However that neighbor has progressed by leaps and bounds thanks to the sanity instilled by its Indian American governor Nikki Haley who has a broader outlook on life and made South Carolina a business hub and is changing its narrow focused worldview.
For this issue of transgender use of bathrooms to have taken national importance in an election year is pure nonsense and perhaps a product of the reality tv culture that we as a nation have become attuned during the past twenty years.
I am no admirer of Donald Trump but do commend him for flushing this non issue down the toilet.
For this issue of transgender use of bathrooms to have taken national importance in an election year is pure nonsense and perhaps a product of the reality tv culture that we as a nation have become attuned during the past twenty years.
I am no admirer of Donald Trump but do commend him for flushing this non issue down the toilet.
1
The game of thrones.
Most men use urinal and women don't. Stalls with doors allow privacy for either sex. Like Bruni says, sex in the bathroom is already illegal.
If you gotta go, you gotta go.
Most men use urinal and women don't. Stalls with doors allow privacy for either sex. Like Bruni says, sex in the bathroom is already illegal.
If you gotta go, you gotta go.
2
My biggest problem with the right is their unrivaled laziness when it comes to the issues.
Rick Santorum famously said if we legalize same sex marriage then human/animal weddings would be next.
Have we seen any measurable increase of interspecies weddings?
Nope.
Has Santorum stepped up like a man and admitted to his followers that his argument about interspecies unions was incorrect?
Nope.
We'll see the same thing with the transgender bathroom issue.
In the end however their arguments, all of which can be condensed into, "that person is different than me, I'm scared", will go the way of the dodo...again.
But not without further damaging the already embarrassing legacy of the backward south.
Rick Santorum famously said if we legalize same sex marriage then human/animal weddings would be next.
Have we seen any measurable increase of interspecies weddings?
Nope.
Has Santorum stepped up like a man and admitted to his followers that his argument about interspecies unions was incorrect?
Nope.
We'll see the same thing with the transgender bathroom issue.
In the end however their arguments, all of which can be condensed into, "that person is different than me, I'm scared", will go the way of the dodo...again.
But not without further damaging the already embarrassing legacy of the backward south.
5
I would like the statistics on annual public bathroom child molestation attempts compared to the annual death rate of children by guns.
Then we can have a serious discussion of appropriate laws.
Then we can have a serious discussion of appropriate laws.
13
There is a far more important issue which never gets attention; there are NEVER enough bathrooms for women .
60
"Your daughter...your wife." It's almost an echo of racist Congressmen such as John Rankin 70 years ago. People like him were continuously fighting integration with the specter of African-American "bucks" assaulting white women at the Woolworth's notions department. What a nasty little man is Ted Cruz.
74
So now it's having an opposite sex person in the restroom with you that is causing the shock and sounding the alarms?
For years we've had the fear of a predator gay male who goes into the bathroom to hit on unsuspecting innocent boys. And that was the fear that dared not speak its name.
Now we have the transgender man, who may or may not have a penis, who may or may not LOOK female but THINKS OF HERSELF as female, and allow that person to use whatever sex bathroom THEY want to.
And what might happen if a child is in there? A toilet might be flushed. What a calamity.
For years we've had the fear of a predator gay male who goes into the bathroom to hit on unsuspecting innocent boys. And that was the fear that dared not speak its name.
Now we have the transgender man, who may or may not have a penis, who may or may not LOOK female but THINKS OF HERSELF as female, and allow that person to use whatever sex bathroom THEY want to.
And what might happen if a child is in there? A toilet might be flushed. What a calamity.
6
Remember the old saying, "Even a broken clock is right twice a day."
This "tempest in a toilet" is simply another attempt to create a wedge issue through which to attract uneducated and low information voters to the polls. It is also a means to attack lgbt people generally. The bigots who sponsor this kind of legislation are no longer able to target gay men and lesbians directly (thanks to a change in the cultural climate and federal courts), so in order to repeal all local nondiscrimination protections of gay people in North Carolina, they create "toilet hysteria" in order clothe their hateful legislation in the pretense that it protects women and children from predators. They learned well from the Houston vote that transpeople are the most vulnerable people in society, and like all bullies, they attack them with no thought of the consequences, which will lead to increased violence against trans people, more stigmatization, and even suicide.
9
Transgender people have been part of humanity since humanity began to exist. If you read a history of sexuality and gender, you will find that it was during the Victorian era that strict divisions of male and female became the accepted norm. In fact, sex seems to be a sliding scale in many ways.
Transgender people have been using bathrooms all along without being noticed. This will continue. While the fact of transgender people has recently become an issue to be addressed more openly, our society has yet to provide safe, comfortable roles for people experiencing themselves as trans. Imagine a society in which people not identifying as strictly male or female have an accepted place, and no one need feel threatened.
The threat to women and children (and other men) comes from sexual predators, and a large percentage of those identify as heterosexual males. Years ago in college I looked into the issue of incest and molestation and found that studies were showing 95% of those molesting children were heterosexual males. I don't know if the data has changed, but I suspect it hasn't changed much. Can anyone report here?
So the trans issue really is about reactionary fear, something that seems rather prevalent these days about any people who look or seem different from conservative white society. This raises concern among many people. Reacting without factual basis means real problems won't be solved and innocent people will be harmed. Is this who we are?
Transgender people have been using bathrooms all along without being noticed. This will continue. While the fact of transgender people has recently become an issue to be addressed more openly, our society has yet to provide safe, comfortable roles for people experiencing themselves as trans. Imagine a society in which people not identifying as strictly male or female have an accepted place, and no one need feel threatened.
The threat to women and children (and other men) comes from sexual predators, and a large percentage of those identify as heterosexual males. Years ago in college I looked into the issue of incest and molestation and found that studies were showing 95% of those molesting children were heterosexual males. I don't know if the data has changed, but I suspect it hasn't changed much. Can anyone report here?
So the trans issue really is about reactionary fear, something that seems rather prevalent these days about any people who look or seem different from conservative white society. This raises concern among many people. Reacting without factual basis means real problems won't be solved and innocent people will be harmed. Is this who we are?
4
Well written, Mr. Bruni, and well explained.
Apparently Mr. Cruz will be with us for a while. It would be better for all of us, if those inclined to support him would recognize from the get-go that no person or group will be safe from his righteous condemnation, as he follows his narrow path.
Apparently Mr. Cruz will be with us for a while. It would be better for all of us, if those inclined to support him would recognize from the get-go that no person or group will be safe from his righteous condemnation, as he follows his narrow path.
10
Funny how things change. Sex-segregated public bathrooms were once thought of as progressive. In Upton Sinclair’s novel “Main Street,” free-spirited, liberal-minded, progressive Carol Milford’s first major contribution to the frontier town of Gopher Prairie, Minnesota, is the construction of a public restroom for women. After arriving in Gopher Prairie from St. Paul, Carol notices that the farm women who came to town in their horse-drawn wagons refuse to use the town’s only public restroom, because they had to share it with men. Gopher Prairie’s public restroom for women become a symbol of small-town enlightenment. Today, we know the Gopher Prairie women were hateful and bigoted for refusing to use restroom with men.
8
Their hypocrisy knows no bounds. The same GOP legislators who decry big government intervention in their/our lives, now because of an ALEC promotion that they slavish follow want to control your lavatory breaks. Of all the problems in North Carolina, can bathroom access be on the list. And now the UK has an International travel warning out for its citizens cautioning them to avoid North Carolina. That might be wise for all of us until the voters of that state elect sensible legislators.
9
US civil rights laws like Title IV and IX forbid discrimination on the basis of sex in workplaces and schools. This requires workplaces and schools to provide women and men, girls and boys, access to comparable sex-segregated facilities like bathrooms, showers and dorms, not just sports teams.
Separate but equal sex-segregated bathrooms and locker rooms are legal because numerous court cases - not just Roe v Wade – recognize a Constitutionally-guaranteed right to privacy. This entails a right to conduct certain intimate, biological functions, like defecating, showering, changing a tampon, etc., in spaces free from the presence and gaze of members of the opposite sex.
When laws like Title IX were written, the term “sex” was defined anatomically and biologically. The Obama Admin argues that sex can be interpreted to mean either biology/anatomy or a person’s subjective “gender identity,” regardless of their anatomical, biological characteristics. But this is logically impossible and unworkable in practice. Once individuals are allowed to use whatever facility they choose based on their gender identity irrespective of their physical sex, once biological males who subjectively identify as women are entitled to use restrooms for women and girls, then those facilities are – by definition – no longer segregated on the basis of sex, anatomically defined. This is a violation of federal law, and undermines the civil rights of all.
Separate but equal sex-segregated bathrooms and locker rooms are legal because numerous court cases - not just Roe v Wade – recognize a Constitutionally-guaranteed right to privacy. This entails a right to conduct certain intimate, biological functions, like defecating, showering, changing a tampon, etc., in spaces free from the presence and gaze of members of the opposite sex.
When laws like Title IX were written, the term “sex” was defined anatomically and biologically. The Obama Admin argues that sex can be interpreted to mean either biology/anatomy or a person’s subjective “gender identity,” regardless of their anatomical, biological characteristics. But this is logically impossible and unworkable in practice. Once individuals are allowed to use whatever facility they choose based on their gender identity irrespective of their physical sex, once biological males who subjectively identify as women are entitled to use restrooms for women and girls, then those facilities are – by definition – no longer segregated on the basis of sex, anatomically defined. This is a violation of federal law, and undermines the civil rights of all.
6
Would that Kristof visit Douthat and share this reactionary tempest in a toilet. Of all candidates, Trump, the uber reactionary dude, has more sense than to jump into this toilet.
Do unenforceable laws always persecute minorities? "We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”(John Ehrlichman).
Are politicians in North Carolina exploiting the reactionary elements in their states? Are these politicians rallying support for their re-elections from a political base of theocrats and superstitious reactionaries? If they are exploiting irrational impulses, it becomes the duty of all observers to out their Machiavellian cynicism and cut them off at their financial knees? All businesses should be cautious about doing business in North Carolina and about supporting theocrats like Ted Cruz.
Do unenforceable laws always persecute minorities? "We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”(John Ehrlichman).
Are politicians in North Carolina exploiting the reactionary elements in their states? Are these politicians rallying support for their re-elections from a political base of theocrats and superstitious reactionaries? If they are exploiting irrational impulses, it becomes the duty of all observers to out their Machiavellian cynicism and cut them off at their financial knees? All businesses should be cautious about doing business in North Carolina and about supporting theocrats like Ted Cruz.
17
A male predator could simply walk right into the ladies' room today, too. It's against the law, but so is the actual attack.
Here's the thing. There is something especially powerful to Southerners about protecting the womenfolk, especially girls, from male interlopers. When I was a little girl in the South, part of the excuse for people opposing integration was the fear of having black boys mix with white girls in school classrooms and hallways -- and follow them into bathrooms.
It's the all-purpose Southern excuse, this fear of the men who will attack our women. And of course, it's basically a crock. But it still speaks to a whole class of Southerners.
As for Cruz, maybe he's just fixated on restrooms.
Here's the thing. There is something especially powerful to Southerners about protecting the womenfolk, especially girls, from male interlopers. When I was a little girl in the South, part of the excuse for people opposing integration was the fear of having black boys mix with white girls in school classrooms and hallways -- and follow them into bathrooms.
It's the all-purpose Southern excuse, this fear of the men who will attack our women. And of course, it's basically a crock. But it still speaks to a whole class of Southerners.
As for Cruz, maybe he's just fixated on restrooms.
26
More elected officials have engaged in sexual misconduct in public bathrooms than have transgender people.
Perhaps we should ban members of Congress from using public bathrooms first.
Perhaps we should ban members of Congress from using public bathrooms first.
56
This law is ridiculous, but not for the reasons Frank Bruni and some others on here think. The mere fact that it was brought up is indicative of a larger problem, which is the normalization of 1. promiscuity, 2. androgyny and 3. the Burger King mentality ("Have It Your Way") in society. The LGBT lobby has never attempted to reason about this but simply assumed it and jumped to its conclusions, screaming "bigot" to anyone who got in the way. This was not, contra some posters here, because of any moral superiority to their position but because the facts do not support their conclusion of normalization. There is nothing normal about engaging in highly septic sexual activity, nor about mutilating perfectly healthy and well-formed body parts, nor about disguising oneself after Hallowe'en. Leftists who whine about the immaturity or pathological political discourse need to take a good look at the P.C. culture they have demanded and received, and the consequent perpetual children and epidemic mental illnesses that populate that culture.
4
Ah, Framk, you never know. Commonsense is often found in uncommonplaces....even among those not thought to have it at all.
And then there's Mrs. Clinton, whose approach to a Gordian Knot like this one would be to launch a federal committee on who should go where, and in the meantime, our bladders would burst before she had an executive order resulting in a tax-paid bathroom for each and everyone of us.
And so it goes, if you get my drift.
And then there's Mrs. Clinton, whose approach to a Gordian Knot like this one would be to launch a federal committee on who should go where, and in the meantime, our bladders would burst before she had an executive order resulting in a tax-paid bathroom for each and everyone of us.
And so it goes, if you get my drift.
5
These politicians act as if transgender is new. Transgenders have been using bathrooms of choice for decades and no one has died. This argument is ridiculous.
11
If it's no big deal which restroom people use then why transgenders care which restroom to use?
6
Another example of how the GOP takes an issue and distorts it to rally their base to the polls. It used to be "Look, over there, GAYS ARE GETTING MARRIED!". Now that is settled thanks to the SCROTUS we have "Look, over there, GUYS IN DRESSES ARE USING THE LADIES TOILETS!".....same old playbook, new scary headline.
10
Even more ridiculous than the potty police portion of the bill are the parts that prevent state court discrimination law suits and banning local anti discrimination laws. The bathroom issue is a red herring to distract from the even more odious portions of the bill. Insanity reigns in North Carolina, but you probably figured that out already.
I grew up in the Deep South in the 60's and 70's in a fairly liberal and tolerant family. After living in a more liberal part of the country for 30 years, I returned to the South thinking, " surely they have progressed." Oh brother, was I mistaken. My assessment: actions and thoughts of southerners are approximately 30-40 years behind the rest of the civilized world.
I grew up in the Deep South in the 60's and 70's in a fairly liberal and tolerant family. After living in a more liberal part of the country for 30 years, I returned to the South thinking, " surely they have progressed." Oh brother, was I mistaken. My assessment: actions and thoughts of southerners are approximately 30-40 years behind the rest of the civilized world.
13
The "bogeyman" is always there in American politics. Much of the world is even worse. Allowing your vote to be influenced by this kind of garbage is pathetic. Yet, the beat goes on. My advice to my fellow countrymen is to turn off the TV and take your kids to the park,..... they are safer when you show them love.
5
So here's Frank Bruni supporting the concepts of common sense, compassion, intelligence and sympathy. He must be fired immediately!
1
So fine. Use the bathroom you identify with. I assume people do that now with no issue either way.
Now, what about locker rooms? Does showering or changing in the same room with an anatomical male/female but gender identified female/male make you uncomfortable? What about your underage son/daughter doing the same?
According to the PC police, if either scenario makes you even the slightest bit hesitant, you are a bigot. And make no mistake, that is where the fringe is taking this issue.
Now, what about locker rooms? Does showering or changing in the same room with an anatomical male/female but gender identified female/male make you uncomfortable? What about your underage son/daughter doing the same?
According to the PC police, if either scenario makes you even the slightest bit hesitant, you are a bigot. And make no mistake, that is where the fringe is taking this issue.
9
I am a long time resident of North Carolina. Can someone please tell me a name for an emotion that is equal parts amusement and embarrassment?
12
Is this really the most pressing issue of the day.
People. need jibs, Isis is at our door step, 17 trillion in debt, uncontrolled deadly crine in or cities, uneducated children and we're worried about who's using what crapper.
Get off the soft issues and talk a out the real problems we have e and the ones we're leaving for our children to solve.
People. need jibs, Isis is at our door step, 17 trillion in debt, uncontrolled deadly crine in or cities, uneducated children and we're worried about who's using what crapper.
Get off the soft issues and talk a out the real problems we have e and the ones we're leaving for our children to solve.
3
A favorite restaurant here has two choices for potty time: "anybody" and "everybody." Problem solved, as each is a one-at-a-time affair.
Building more one-serving bathrooms takes a lot of time, but it quietly ends a problem that the American Taliban, I mean Fundamentalist Christians, have cooked up.
Building more one-serving bathrooms takes a lot of time, but it quietly ends a problem that the American Taliban, I mean Fundamentalist Christians, have cooked up.
18
Everyone is missing the point. Who gets to use public bathrooms is not foolish fodder for pundits and politicians; it is a subject for serious discourse of economists and policy makers--it is an immense economic opportunity for America.
In this day and age where corporations are sending our jobs overseas, we have here the potential for jobs that cannot be outsourced to China or Vietnam. Yes, in this instance Frank is wrong, we should not listen to Trump, we should listen to Cruz.
Think about it. A US Department of Sex Verification. Armed uniformed guards at every public bathroom. Random body searches to ensure public compliance. Jobs for America! Good paying high skilled jobs. Yes skilled jobs because it isn't enough to peruse a birth certificate, USDSV employees will need to be trained on identifying transgender sex surgery, they will need to be able to distinguish between real and artificially constructed sex organs. AND they will have the authority to arrest violators (a whole new opportunity for keeping our prisons well stocked) and shoot to kill if someone makes a run for it.
So lets stop the potty talk about this important topic. Republicans have promised to create good paying jobs for the middle class and this opportunity will create thousands...oh wait, how many public bathrooms are there in America? Maybe we are talking tens of millions of new jobs! Not just jobs, but secure careers with benefits, e.g., unlimited bathroom breaks.
In this day and age where corporations are sending our jobs overseas, we have here the potential for jobs that cannot be outsourced to China or Vietnam. Yes, in this instance Frank is wrong, we should not listen to Trump, we should listen to Cruz.
Think about it. A US Department of Sex Verification. Armed uniformed guards at every public bathroom. Random body searches to ensure public compliance. Jobs for America! Good paying high skilled jobs. Yes skilled jobs because it isn't enough to peruse a birth certificate, USDSV employees will need to be trained on identifying transgender sex surgery, they will need to be able to distinguish between real and artificially constructed sex organs. AND they will have the authority to arrest violators (a whole new opportunity for keeping our prisons well stocked) and shoot to kill if someone makes a run for it.
So lets stop the potty talk about this important topic. Republicans have promised to create good paying jobs for the middle class and this opportunity will create thousands...oh wait, how many public bathrooms are there in America? Maybe we are talking tens of millions of new jobs! Not just jobs, but secure careers with benefits, e.g., unlimited bathroom breaks.
21
Thomas Edsall's column on Wednesday, "Legislation by Stealth, Republican Style" nailed the "tempest in a toilet". Little girls and bathrooms were a smokescreen for barring cities and counties from enacting minimum wage ordinances and barring suits anti-discrimination suits against employers. While it may be amusing to discuss the "tempest in a toilet", focusing on the smokescreen rather than the substance does nothing to hold a Republican governor and legislature accountable for its actions. Mr. Edsall took issue with how the statute was enacted.
"In less than 12 hours, the anti-L.G.B.T. bill went through 10 steps. It was introduced in the House, sent to the House Judiciary Committee, approved and sent back to the full House, passed by a vote of 82-26, sent to the State Senate (where it went through the same committee and floor procedures as it did in the House), won final approval 32-0 (with all the Democratic Senators absent in protest) and sent to the Republican governor, Pat McCrory, who promptly signed it into law."
"In less than 12 hours, the anti-L.G.B.T. bill went through 10 steps. It was introduced in the House, sent to the House Judiciary Committee, approved and sent back to the full House, passed by a vote of 82-26, sent to the State Senate (where it went through the same committee and floor procedures as it did in the House), won final approval 32-0 (with all the Democratic Senators absent in protest) and sent to the Republican governor, Pat McCrory, who promptly signed it into law."
5
Decades ago separate public restrooms for Black and White people were declared illegal, as they should have been, for they were definitely the result of discrimination. If we make it legal for a person to use whatever restroom that he/she identifies with regardless of anatomy, will not restrooms that are marked "men" or "women" also become illegal? By implying that men and women are different, is that not also discrimination?
3
"“Grown adult men” is precisely how many transgender men appear — with beards, muscles, pants — and exactly how they’d look to little girls in the women’s rooms that the North Carolina law would command them to use."
--------------------------------
Indeed!!! This is classic irony! This law would actually CREATE the problem it was designed to combat, a problem that up to the passage of the law simply didn't exist.
But we are told by our governor Pat McCrory and our senate leader Phil Berger (the real power in our state ... McCrory is an inconsequential puppet of the legislature) that this law is just "common sense." Right ... that's what our NC Republicans do -- apply the term "common sense" to laws that solve problems that don't exist, but do serve the purpose of advancing the GOP agenda. NC's voter id law is another excellent example.
--------------------------------
Indeed!!! This is classic irony! This law would actually CREATE the problem it was designed to combat, a problem that up to the passage of the law simply didn't exist.
But we are told by our governor Pat McCrory and our senate leader Phil Berger (the real power in our state ... McCrory is an inconsequential puppet of the legislature) that this law is just "common sense." Right ... that's what our NC Republicans do -- apply the term "common sense" to laws that solve problems that don't exist, but do serve the purpose of advancing the GOP agenda. NC's voter id law is another excellent example.
6
People need to be educated about transgenderism. The fear and disgust a lot of people feel would just dissipate if they knew more about the subject. It is not about people dressing in drag; it's a whole body, mind, spirit thing. Transgender people are just like everyone else. They are good people, bad people, nice people, smart people, not-so-smart people -- just regular human beings with a wiring issue in their brains that tells them they are the opposite sex than that which they were born. You may already know one and not even be aware of it. Mr. Bruni is correct when he says that to make a transgender male go to a female bathroom would be jarring, to say the least, because most transgender men look and sound just like other Y-chromosome males. Caitlyn Jenner tried to get people thinking and accepting, and she was subject to more scorn and criticism than anyone should have to bear. Trump was right, for once; get over it, America.
3
Of course, any person who assaults, menaces, touches, or harasses a child is breaking the law. Any person who does the same to a woman (or a man) is also breaking the law. What I am uncomfortable with is the possibility that a male with a sexual urge, objective, or fetish, could enter a female restroom and obtain his sexual gratification from seeing women in the bathroom. He doesn't have to touch, harass, or assault anyone. He doesn't have to break the law in any way, and I'd still be uncomfortable with the idea that he might be getting sexual gratification from being in a female bathroom.
Having a law that, in essence, would allow anyone to claim "transgender sanctuary" and find legal immunity for simply being in an opposite- sex bathroom is disquieting because, in absence of any scientific or legal way to distinguish "real" transgender people from those simply trying to take advantage, anyone who claims to be transgender would be protected. If a male claims to be transgender, enters a female restroom, and does nothing outwardly unsavory to anyone, how can I be sure he isn't getting sexual gratification but is simply restraining himself physically?
As a society, we can make choices. We can choose who we want to put on our money, or the best way to combat climate change. We can also check each other's desires, opinions, and ideas.
Having a law that, in essence, would allow anyone to claim "transgender sanctuary" and find legal immunity for simply being in an opposite- sex bathroom is disquieting because, in absence of any scientific or legal way to distinguish "real" transgender people from those simply trying to take advantage, anyone who claims to be transgender would be protected. If a male claims to be transgender, enters a female restroom, and does nothing outwardly unsavory to anyone, how can I be sure he isn't getting sexual gratification but is simply restraining himself physically?
As a society, we can make choices. We can choose who we want to put on our money, or the best way to combat climate change. We can also check each other's desires, opinions, and ideas.
7
Trump got this one right. But he is still batting way below the Mendoza Line.
1
I care less about any of this. It's societal deflection away from issues that truly matter. Some of which the author of this piece mentioned. Let Americans use the bathroom they wish to use, at least until there are unisex type baths (see some Asian cultures for proper training in that regard). Let's focus on the more important "lead in the water and why are we spending trillions on weapon systems when our national infrastructure is crumbling and goes begging for funding?" issues shall we?
John~
American Net'Zen
John~
American Net'Zen
4
This could all be put to bed if a couple of brave transgendered males who look the part would use a women's rest room in North Carolina with media in attendance.
And I have often wondered if "common sense" is susceptible to the Dunning-Kruger principle?
And I have often wondered if "common sense" is susceptible to the Dunning-Kruger principle?
Mr. Bruni's disconnect seems to be the same as most people who have a passing knowledge of what happened in NC. The NC legislature had gone home for the year when the Charlotte Democrat City Council, apparently feeling spending time on gang issues or traffic problems was trivial, took up creating their own public accommodation ordinance to apply to all public and private businesses in the city limit, inclusive of new right to sue over transgender disputes AND bathroom access (by the way, the city council voted this down the year before and the NBA and others had no problem with this). No one in NC had asked for HB2 - the city council forced it to try and reign them and any other liberal democrat cities in NC that feel they can increase their regulatory powers.
2
In lovely old Fenway Park there was/ is a real bathroom problem. Too many men's rooms and too few for ladies, transgendered or not. The solution to long lines for the ladies room meant slipping into the men's room. Guess what Fenway didn't come crashing down around us and no one got molested. (Curt Schilling to what a strange place you have gone when once you were our brave hero. Glad ESPN fired you.) So many problems and so many idiots running around spending time on promoting the ridiculous. Speaking of ridiculous, no woman at 65 should be seen on the cover of a magazine in a corset. Ms. Jenner I'm happy you like your new body, but please enjoy it in private...that's what ladies do.
8
This issue is small and should not be a "Tempest".
The larger issue is portraying one who objects to an individual with male genitalia using a rest room with females, including young girls, as a"narrow-minded,judgmental,unloving racist bigot who needs to die ".
That is unfair and disrespectful to those with differing opinions but exemplifies the malicious political rhetoric of too many.
The larger issue is portraying one who objects to an individual with male genitalia using a rest room with females, including young girls, as a"narrow-minded,judgmental,unloving racist bigot who needs to die ".
That is unfair and disrespectful to those with differing opinions but exemplifies the malicious political rhetoric of too many.
6
America has a potty problem. And it isn't new. Those of us old enough to recall the brief life and death of the Equal Rights Amendment will remember that one of the principal objections was the perceived invasion of gender specific public restrooms by radical feminists. Before that, there were race restricted public facilities. If you want to rile folks against the "other" there's apparently no better place to start than the bathroom.
13
I cannot stand Trump but on this issue he was far more sensible than the idiot who run s my state, the foolish Mr. McCrory, who has brought shame and ridicule to North Carolina and has also cost the state millions in revenue.
12
This column gets a 10.
9
Mr. Bruni’s commentary is, of course, rational. Unfortunately we are not dealing with rational people, who now use “public safety” and “religious freedom” as leverage for State Action to discriminate in the name of religious principles.
I am struck by the effort of so many filled with bigotry and hatred to hide behind code words. Instead, so many of these people attempt to justify bigoted and demeaning conduct and words by saying they are entitled to spew the hatred as an expression of First Amendment “rights”, or as “Religious Freedom” or for “Public Safety”. We have a long history in this country of bigotry hidden in code.
These people have Gerrymandered themselves into positions to use State Action to advance religious principles.
No need to use “public safety” as code. Don’t be afraid. Worry instead about the Ted Bundy’s in society.
*****
“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them”.
~ Barry Goldwater
*****
I am struck by the effort of so many filled with bigotry and hatred to hide behind code words. Instead, so many of these people attempt to justify bigoted and demeaning conduct and words by saying they are entitled to spew the hatred as an expression of First Amendment “rights”, or as “Religious Freedom” or for “Public Safety”. We have a long history in this country of bigotry hidden in code.
These people have Gerrymandered themselves into positions to use State Action to advance religious principles.
No need to use “public safety” as code. Don’t be afraid. Worry instead about the Ted Bundy’s in society.
*****
“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them”.
~ Barry Goldwater
*****
14
No, the question is not "What if you use the bathroom at a highway reststop and there's a transexual person in it." That is a red herring. The real question is "What if your eight-year-old daughter goes to the public swimming pool and has to change into her swimming suit in the public locker room and there's a man in there?"
What should she do? Change in front of the man, like a proper little progressive? Hang around and surreptitiously wait for the man to leave? Just quit swimming and sit in front of a TV all summer instead?
What she can't do now is what every commonsensical eight-year-old girl would have done twenty years ago: go back out, find the supervisor and say, "Um, excuse me, but there a man in our locker room. Can you call the police, please?"
That's the question.
What should she do? Change in front of the man, like a proper little progressive? Hang around and surreptitiously wait for the man to leave? Just quit swimming and sit in front of a TV all summer instead?
What she can't do now is what every commonsensical eight-year-old girl would have done twenty years ago: go back out, find the supervisor and say, "Um, excuse me, but there a man in our locker room. Can you call the police, please?"
That's the question.
11
There you go again wasting precious space in MY NYTimes. We want to hear from, Ben Carson and others like him,about useful info. Who cares what you think of TO FLUSH OR NOT FLUSH!
1
What a silly and contrived conundrum the GOP has created for itself. Airlines and trains have had common toilets for decades, rape and child-molestation at 30,000 feet have not ensued; why is this an issue now? Have we depleted the panoply of gay-bashing topics that have dominated the GOP for years that this is the last one that can be exploited? Sad, disgraceful and malignant policies promulgated by ignorant - or worse, pandering - pathetic state legislatures recall the glory days of racial segregation when blacks had to use different toilets than whites. Oh yeah, where is the righteous indignation of the African-American community in all of this?
7
If this law were to be enforced (our laws must be enforced!) what kind of person (a drooling Neandertal?) would be employed to enforce it and how would he/she go about it? Would it be like the TSA (and be equally effective?)? Would they employ x-ray scanners?
Taken to its logical (a misuse of the word logical here) conclusion this situation would require two new classifications of bathroom bringing the total to 4 kinds - or we could go unisex, the European way. Of course we don't want to do that, Europeans being communists and all.
Taken to its logical (a misuse of the word logical here) conclusion this situation would require two new classifications of bathroom bringing the total to 4 kinds - or we could go unisex, the European way. Of course we don't want to do that, Europeans being communists and all.
8
bathrooms that don’t correspond with the gender on their birth certificates. Most state laws simply forbid people to use public bathrooms that don’t correspond with their gender. What purpose does the North Carolina birth certificates requirement serve? To prosecute a person for using a public restroom that doesn’t correspond with their birth certificates, North Carolina will have to obtain a copy of the accused’s birth certificate, something prosecutors in other states don’t have to do. Of course, there are very few prosecutions. Typically, store clerks react to customer complaints by asking men to leave the women’s room or women to leave the men’s rooms. Bartenders delegate the task to bouncers. Businesses call police only if offenders refuse to comply, and police only make arrests if offenders refuse their order to leave. Laws segregating public restrooms by sex have been effectively enforce for generations. North Carolina should remove the unnecessary reference to birth certificates and simply forbid people to use public bathrooms that don’t correspond with their gender.
1
Republicans like to scare people and this only represents their latest tack to achieve that goal.
Since guns still outnumber transgender women by about 428 to 1 in the US and as the 13 people who died in two separate incidents of gun violence in Ohio and Georgia over the last two days versus the very rare instances of a transgender woman turning to violence against anyone prove, the fear the GOP wants to create seems to point in the wrong direction.
Not that this should surprise us.
Since guns still outnumber transgender women by about 428 to 1 in the US and as the 13 people who died in two separate incidents of gun violence in Ohio and Georgia over the last two days versus the very rare instances of a transgender woman turning to violence against anyone prove, the fear the GOP wants to create seems to point in the wrong direction.
Not that this should surprise us.
4
I guess we will all need to be strip searched before entering a bathroom.Otherwise we will never know if the person sitting in the stall next to me was born male or female under the NC law.
But - what do we do about people who have transitioned via surgery and now have the equipment (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) of their new gender?
The NC legislature is going to have to work overtime on this one.
But - what do we do about people who have transitioned via surgery and now have the equipment (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) of their new gender?
The NC legislature is going to have to work overtime on this one.
1
Nice to hear some rational viewpoints on the subject.
What a waste of time and resources.
What a waste of time and resources.
1
Additional legal questions come up. If women jumped the endless line at an athletic event to use the men's restroom would they be arrested in NC? What if a family has triplets under 5, two girls and a boy and Mom is alone when nature calls? It goes on and on. It underscores that the GOP is totally lacking in practical skills. The Bible does not work as a legal document, an engineering tool or a basis for medical or scientific endeavors.
1
I cannot think of one transgender repeated child molester. I can think of very celebrated coaches and universities looking the other way. They are almost always the wolf in sheep's clothing. And are typically a relative, someone they were supposed to respect.
First, we have had minimum sentences for child predators. The little girl kidnapped by that animal in Caiifornia was already convicted of kidnap and rape of another girl. He didn't wear a dress and held this poor girl captive in a tent for years. She wasn't abducted in a bathroom. She was walking to school.
I have no idea what it would be like to gay or transgender. I do know I have three friends that are gay - two men and one woman and all are loving and caring and I would leave my child in their care.
First, we have had minimum sentences for child predators. The little girl kidnapped by that animal in Caiifornia was already convicted of kidnap and rape of another girl. He didn't wear a dress and held this poor girl captive in a tent for years. She wasn't abducted in a bathroom. She was walking to school.
I have no idea what it would be like to gay or transgender. I do know I have three friends that are gay - two men and one woman and all are loving and caring and I would leave my child in their care.
4
In Australia, in some towns, we have single toilets that can be used by disabled folk. My suggestion is, why not have single gender neutral toilets that can be used by straight folk or transgender folk. That way they can go to the toilet without having to worry about being harassed by so-called straight people. It must be a real problem for them having to decide which one to use.
5
All the pundits and pols who are constantly surprised by Donald Trump only reveal that they know very little about human nature.
Number 1, Trump is a New Yorker, and number 2, he is a Republican only because he says he is. And he really isn't. What he is, is a loud mouthed liar. End of story.
1
I'll be honest, can't say I've ever really paid much attention to the rest of the folks in the thousands of public male bathrooms I've gone to over my 59 years. Can't say I've ever encountered a trans-gender person, but who would know? I'm certainly not about to begin my own personal gender assessment mission at this point in my life. You really have to wonder what is going on, or maybe not going on, in the brains of a lot of these conservatives.
4
Ted Cruz's answer to under-employment: Bouncers checking birth certificates at public rest rooms.
4
Forget about trump the author is correct in his assertion. This is a solution in search of a problem.
Come on, we have more important things to Rory about
Come on, we have more important things to Rory about
1
Transsexuals should use whatever bathroom they want. There are stalls in the bathroom. Anyone who wants privacy can have it.
As for the locker room... I don't know. If cisgender men are barred from women's locker rooms because they are not supposed to expose their privates in the presence of women... then why would the rule be different for a preoperative man transitioning to a woman, who identifies as a woman? are some people not important enough to override others' discomfort, while others, even if they are much smaller in number, are allowed to do so? should this matter be handled by individual choice? individual businesses? the Congress? state legislatures? or the US Department of Education Office of Civil Rights? i think the latter is the last one i would choose to make the decision, it was elected by absolutely no one and is staffed with extremists, but that appears to be where we are today. which means, lots and lots of division over a matter that doesn't need to affect very many people.
As for the locker room... I don't know. If cisgender men are barred from women's locker rooms because they are not supposed to expose their privates in the presence of women... then why would the rule be different for a preoperative man transitioning to a woman, who identifies as a woman? are some people not important enough to override others' discomfort, while others, even if they are much smaller in number, are allowed to do so? should this matter be handled by individual choice? individual businesses? the Congress? state legislatures? or the US Department of Education Office of Civil Rights? i think the latter is the last one i would choose to make the decision, it was elected by absolutely no one and is staffed with extremists, but that appears to be where we are today. which means, lots and lots of division over a matter that doesn't need to affect very many people.
1
Ted Cruz on potty etiquette: “I’m the father of two little girls,” he said. “Here is basic common sense: Grown adult men, strangers, should not be alone in a bathroom with little girls.”
Besides being silly, if not utterly stupid, folks like Ted "use-your-birth-gender-bathroom" Cruz forget that it is impossible to enforce this law. Is he planning to have a cop stationed outside every rest room in America? Are we supposed to carry our birth certificate to a movie so I can show it before using their facilities?
By my rough calculation there are over 250 million rest rooms in America, and hence stationing an officer outside each one will immediately create over 250 million jobs! Take that Obama!
Besides being silly, if not utterly stupid, folks like Ted "use-your-birth-gender-bathroom" Cruz forget that it is impossible to enforce this law. Is he planning to have a cop stationed outside every rest room in America? Are we supposed to carry our birth certificate to a movie so I can show it before using their facilities?
By my rough calculation there are over 250 million rest rooms in America, and hence stationing an officer outside each one will immediately create over 250 million jobs! Take that Obama!
3
Let's stop judging, harassing and belittling others for their personal life decisions. Offer gender neutral bathrooms as an alternative and let people decide where they are comfortable. Of greater concern, when do ladies room bathroom stalls in America stop having wide gaps in the doors for everyone's viewing pleasure? In Europe the stalls all are fully enclosed so that the user has total privacy. In America ladies rooms stall doors have gaps from slim to wide. Many a time I have looked up to see a youngster waiting for her or his mother outside the stall, only to be peering into mine.
1
Transgender ideology holds that the stereotypes of masculine men and feminine women are true and real, so much so that those who do not conform to them are said to need surgery. Iran executes gay people but supports transgenderism, Caitlin Jenner is a conservative Republican, and now Trump is on board. This isn't surprising, as Bruni erroneously concluded. Transgender ideology is as conservative as it gets.
3
Frank,
Even you missed the forest for the trees.
This "Bathroom Brohaha Law" is nothing but cynical cover for all of the far more egregious things this law contains. ALEC knows that we can only be outraged by one thing at a time, so they put in this obvious controversy, guaranteed to make every social justice warrior to come to battle, twitter feed a-blazing, while ignoring the state overriding the local and municipal laws raising the minimum wage, and extending more protections to the LGBT.
It's a hypocritical power grab, by the very same Republican party who claim that "Smaller, local government is best".
Even you missed the forest for the trees.
This "Bathroom Brohaha Law" is nothing but cynical cover for all of the far more egregious things this law contains. ALEC knows that we can only be outraged by one thing at a time, so they put in this obvious controversy, guaranteed to make every social justice warrior to come to battle, twitter feed a-blazing, while ignoring the state overriding the local and municipal laws raising the minimum wage, and extending more protections to the LGBT.
It's a hypocritical power grab, by the very same Republican party who claim that "Smaller, local government is best".
8
I would not pee next to Ted Cruz if it was the last urinal on Earth. He is far too obsessed with genitalia to be safe. I'd rather have a bladder infection.
7
What about the rights of the millions of people who are NOT transgender?
The bathroom is only part of the issue.
I would NOT want to share a locker room or a shower area with a transgender if the person looks like (and actually is) a person of the other gender.
I knew a transgender once. When HE was dressed up in a fancy skirt and blouse and his fancy high heeled leather boots HE looked like a female. He still had his male genitals. He did have breasts because he was taking huge doses of female hormones (I can't imagine that was healthy for him). When he was not dressed up and did not have his wig on, he looked like a male, he sounded like a male and he always acted and displayed emotions as a male would. And those emotions included anger.
Under NO circumstances would I want to share a locker room or a shower with him.
Someone mentioned that airplane bathrooms are unisex and they are, but my opinion is only one person uses them at a time and it would be virtually impossible for two people to fit in one of those.
There must be some reason why there are women's, men's, and family bathrooms. It is apparent that men do not want to take their young daughters in a men's room and certainly a man would not be welcome in a female bathroom and so it came to be that family bathrooms were added.
It just isn't logical, sane or safe.
The bathroom is only part of the issue.
I would NOT want to share a locker room or a shower area with a transgender if the person looks like (and actually is) a person of the other gender.
I knew a transgender once. When HE was dressed up in a fancy skirt and blouse and his fancy high heeled leather boots HE looked like a female. He still had his male genitals. He did have breasts because he was taking huge doses of female hormones (I can't imagine that was healthy for him). When he was not dressed up and did not have his wig on, he looked like a male, he sounded like a male and he always acted and displayed emotions as a male would. And those emotions included anger.
Under NO circumstances would I want to share a locker room or a shower with him.
Someone mentioned that airplane bathrooms are unisex and they are, but my opinion is only one person uses them at a time and it would be virtually impossible for two people to fit in one of those.
There must be some reason why there are women's, men's, and family bathrooms. It is apparent that men do not want to take their young daughters in a men's room and certainly a man would not be welcome in a female bathroom and so it came to be that family bathrooms were added.
It just isn't logical, sane or safe.
4
The best way to get rid of a bad law is to obey it. The North Carolina legislature must, like all groups, have a break in the action for nature's calls. How about a guard at the restroom door demanding to see your papers (birth certificate not drivers license) before letting you in? How about a group of Caitlyn Jenners in their Sunday finest mingling with them once they get into the mens room? Let's all try to obey a stupid law in a stupid way.
5
No one with a penis is female toilets or locker rooms.
End of story
End of story
7
There are some matters that should be left to common sense and courtesy, and individual choice, and not brought into the real of legislative halls or government interference. This one of them. Another is a woman's right to choose the treatment of her body, with her doctor's advice, without legal interference.
5
Yes, it's ridiculous to suggest these transgenders will molest little girls. They don't want to molest little girls. They think they ARE little girls.
8
I would like Senator Cruz, Glenn Beck and the Governor of North Carolina to point to five, just five, instances when a transgendered person posed a problem for someone in a public person in all of the United States.
Then I would like these same deep thinkers to point to how many people were killed yesterday, just yesterday, by 'legal' weapons.
Then I would like them to explain their priority.
Then I would like these same deep thinkers to point to how many people were killed yesterday, just yesterday, by 'legal' weapons.
Then I would like them to explain their priority.
4
I was eating lunch earlier today when I noticed a transgender woman at the table next to me, eating with friends. Honestly, it just doesn't make any sense to me to get bent out of shape about it either way. It would be much more awkward if (she) came into the restroom with me than simply using the womens' room.
I really don't get the passionate fighting about this on BOTH sides of the issue. The North Carolina law is obviously unenforceable and wastes money, and on the other side, I have noticed the Times running stories almost daily now about this issue. I just don't get the passion here. Some people want to dress and behave a certain way, no need to attack them OR run constant reminders of how we need to act like decent human beings around them, it's insulting.
I really don't get the passionate fighting about this on BOTH sides of the issue. The North Carolina law is obviously unenforceable and wastes money, and on the other side, I have noticed the Times running stories almost daily now about this issue. I just don't get the passion here. Some people want to dress and behave a certain way, no need to attack them OR run constant reminders of how we need to act like decent human beings around them, it's insulting.
2
Statistically, it would be a lot safer to let your young daughters to share a restroom with a transgender female than to let your young sons share a restroom with a Catholic priest.
11
I propose the removal of all rest-room cubicle doors. Gender verification: Easy-peasy. Behind-closed-doors illicit activity: Impossible by definition. If ever a problem existed, this approach would solve it.
1
May I weigh in on this at a practical level? Thank you.
If we're to accept transgender restrooms, I've no problem with that. I consider it to be beyond credibility that woman in a man's body would transform his appearance solely in order to gain access to women's restrooms so as to sneak peeks at little girls, or to somehow "convert" them to... what, exactly?
The whole idea is absurd, and yet... there's an anatomical component to it. A restroom without urinals would be burdensome to men. A man's urinary tract is unlike that of a woman's. (Is anyone surprised by that revelation? I hope not!) When a man sits upon a conventional toilet to evacuate his bladder, the process is not complete. His plumbing isn't constructed that way, and when he arises from the toilet something is inevitably "left over" in his bladder, requiring careful recognition of the distance between rest stops on the Interstate.
So he should simply raise the toilet lid and have at it? Alas, would that it were so! But no, the male evacuation process requires a close proximity to the receiving vessel. Otherwise, the "mist" surrounding the spray will go... everywhere. (Those charged with restroom cleanup will testify to that.)
So, whichever this argument goes, restrooms must have urinals without regard to the superficial appearance of those using them.
If we're to accept transgender restrooms, I've no problem with that. I consider it to be beyond credibility that woman in a man's body would transform his appearance solely in order to gain access to women's restrooms so as to sneak peeks at little girls, or to somehow "convert" them to... what, exactly?
The whole idea is absurd, and yet... there's an anatomical component to it. A restroom without urinals would be burdensome to men. A man's urinary tract is unlike that of a woman's. (Is anyone surprised by that revelation? I hope not!) When a man sits upon a conventional toilet to evacuate his bladder, the process is not complete. His plumbing isn't constructed that way, and when he arises from the toilet something is inevitably "left over" in his bladder, requiring careful recognition of the distance between rest stops on the Interstate.
So he should simply raise the toilet lid and have at it? Alas, would that it were so! But no, the male evacuation process requires a close proximity to the receiving vessel. Otherwise, the "mist" surrounding the spray will go... everywhere. (Those charged with restroom cleanup will testify to that.)
So, whichever this argument goes, restrooms must have urinals without regard to the superficial appearance of those using them.
2
I would never vote for Donald Trump. But there are times when I so enjoy the vicarious thrill I get when he bulldozes over Cruz, Rove and the rest of the GOP fear mongers and historical revisionists. Trump's comments about the transgender bathroom "issue" now join "Bush lied us into Iraq" on my 2016 election Top Ten Hit Parade.
5
There are times when one just has to worry about America.Do its citizens need to fear everything?
7
Transgenders, or anyone, having to use bathrooms of their birth given gender. Do people need to present their birth certificates to the bathroom cops now? I'm sure Ted Cruz would love to have a few of those cops for his precious little girls, because they might just be traumatized in bathrooms guessing who is using the stall next to them.
Gavin Grimm, a 16 year old, who just won a case in Virginia regarding bathroom usage, has a birth certificate that says gender at birth, female.
Two years ago, at the age of fourteen, he said he was transgender. Imagine how difficult this would be for any fourteen year old.
But alas, his school forced him to use the school nurses's bathroom. A teenage boy had to go to the school nurse's office to urinate or defecate between classes in high school. What kind of people would demonize a child to the extent they cannot even use the bathrooms that every other kid uses? What did the school think Gavin was going to do between classes in their celestial palace bathrooms? What message was the school board (who probably made the decision) giving to the rest of the school? That transgender kids are dirty - so dirty in fact, they can't even use the regular bathroom?
I worked as a school nurse years ago. I would like to warn adults like Ted Cruz they are playing with fire. Are they not aware of suicide rates among kids dealing with transgender issues?
Let us "pray" Cruz's precious two never have to explain gender issues to dear old dad.
Gavin Grimm, a 16 year old, who just won a case in Virginia regarding bathroom usage, has a birth certificate that says gender at birth, female.
Two years ago, at the age of fourteen, he said he was transgender. Imagine how difficult this would be for any fourteen year old.
But alas, his school forced him to use the school nurses's bathroom. A teenage boy had to go to the school nurse's office to urinate or defecate between classes in high school. What kind of people would demonize a child to the extent they cannot even use the bathrooms that every other kid uses? What did the school think Gavin was going to do between classes in their celestial palace bathrooms? What message was the school board (who probably made the decision) giving to the rest of the school? That transgender kids are dirty - so dirty in fact, they can't even use the regular bathroom?
I worked as a school nurse years ago. I would like to warn adults like Ted Cruz they are playing with fire. Are they not aware of suicide rates among kids dealing with transgender issues?
Let us "pray" Cruz's precious two never have to explain gender issues to dear old dad.
5
I don't know that I've ever witnessed a more cynical, dishonest, vulgar display of political opportunism than Cruz's response to Trump's common-sense comments this week. Every word from the man's mouth is designed for the sole purpose of turning less-enlightened voters into anti-transgender warriors who will see Cruz as the only barrier between muscular, hairy perverts and your innocent 3-year-old little girl. His willingness to paint a target on the back of an already marginalized and misunderstood group of law-abiding, tax-paying citizens is just downright disgusting.
And let's put facts in play here: statistically speaking, little girls are much more likely to be molested by a Ted Cruz than a transgendered woman.
And let's put facts in play here: statistically speaking, little girls are much more likely to be molested by a Ted Cruz than a transgendered woman.
11
Oh, please. Science is still science, and someone with XY chromosomes is a male, and someone with XX chromosomes is a female. End of story, with the exception of the rare hermaphrodite.
If we really care about these poor individuals, we would get them the psychological counseling that they need, not enable them with hormone treatments and unnecessary (and harmful) surgeries, not to mention access to bathrooms.
If we really care about these poor individuals, we would get them the psychological counseling that they need, not enable them with hormone treatments and unnecessary (and harmful) surgeries, not to mention access to bathrooms.
4
Both sides are pretty childish. Our governor does not want us to go to North Carolina. So suppose Duke Univerisity or UNC, both of which are pretty strong, arrange a conference in my area of research. Am I not supposed to go?
And if the governor is so liberal, why do CUNY faculty not have a fair raise after 6 years of stagnation?
Politicians love to make bombastic noises and I do not know which governor is more silly - the one of North Carolina or the one of New York.
And if the governor is so liberal, why do CUNY faculty not have a fair raise after 6 years of stagnation?
Politicians love to make bombastic noises and I do not know which governor is more silly - the one of North Carolina or the one of New York.
4
Oh for goodness sakes, have any of these people been to an Iggy Pop concert? Women pee in the mens room to avoid the lines at the women's room. Nobody bothers them and we treat them respectfully. They go to the front of the line! What is the matter with these right wing idiots who are accountable to no one but their billionaire masters?
7
The issue of transgender is far more complicated than the media elite pretends that it is. Instead, this is merely an attempt for liberals to proclaim their self-righteousness while alienating people who they think below them. After all, do you think that Bruce Springsteen or any of the other Hollywood elite actually use public toilets?
As for me, I wonder what will happen when woman is molested in a bathroom. Sure, I hope it never happens, but if it does, I would hope than NOW would attempt to sue Bruce Springsteen and every T activities who supported this change. I doubt that will happen, however, given the track record of NOW, If they ignored the women sexually harassed and exploited by Bill Clinton, I doubt they will care about women who are hurt by this change.
In the end, the number of Transgender in this country is so small that the focus they receive is better spent on larger problems. But liberals would rather bash religion and overturn "the hierarchy" than make serious proposals at real problems.
So let us lament the rule of liberal hypocrisy that joyfully clucks their superiority as income inequity and suicides rise under their governance!
As for me, I wonder what will happen when woman is molested in a bathroom. Sure, I hope it never happens, but if it does, I would hope than NOW would attempt to sue Bruce Springsteen and every T activities who supported this change. I doubt that will happen, however, given the track record of NOW, If they ignored the women sexually harassed and exploited by Bill Clinton, I doubt they will care about women who are hurt by this change.
In the end, the number of Transgender in this country is so small that the focus they receive is better spent on larger problems. But liberals would rather bash religion and overturn "the hierarchy" than make serious proposals at real problems.
So let us lament the rule of liberal hypocrisy that joyfully clucks their superiority as income inequity and suicides rise under their governance!
2
Does Mr And Mrs Cruz really let there 5 year old daughter go into public restrooms by herself? Not great parenting if true. IMO.
15
PANDORA'S POTTY Woe is we! Indeed, woe is wee wee! For I fear that the piddling complaints of those who accuse transgender persons using the bathroom that is consistent with their gender identification will lead to a crime wave--make that a tsunami--of attacks upon the innocent and unsuspecting. Providing, of course, that they are in the toilet that corresponds to their birth gender. I fear we shall all drown in the terror of the transgender-zillas who will take over Manhattan and climb out of the toilets onto the Empire State Building. I see a new cult horror classic in making that will have wetting themselves in movie theaters, causing a great overflow in the restrooms, gender notwithstanding. In their haste to evacuate dangerous elements from public toilets, the moral scolds are all wet. Indeed, these shining beacons of morality have overlooked the current system of family facilities that include all genders, all ages and all handicaps. The GOP is dripping with outrage, which is not the sweat of terror, but the soggy swill of their vicious moralizing, flooding the media with fears of gender terrorists. Not to worry, though; they'll not be wearing robes or explosive vests. They just wanna take a dump. There are other cover-ups of concern, as disposable diapers for infants through toddlers are unisex! That must be the cause of the crisis! Fortunately, for the sake of basic decency, diapers for seniors are labeled by gender, though they could always fake it.
5
The bathroom uproar results from a typical conservative tactic:
Take a complex. nuanced issue and reduce it to moronically simple terms, such as "no men in women's restrooms". Common sense right?
Next, rally the conservative voter base with the implication that liberals want to allow predators access to little girls.
It is disgusting. It is embarrassing to me as an American.
It is pure Karl Rove / Lee Atwater method,
Take a complex. nuanced issue and reduce it to moronically simple terms, such as "no men in women's restrooms". Common sense right?
Next, rally the conservative voter base with the implication that liberals want to allow predators access to little girls.
It is disgusting. It is embarrassing to me as an American.
It is pure Karl Rove / Lee Atwater method,
106
NC has mistaken voyeurism for oversight. Ban NC people from other state's public restrooms. They can't be trusted. Of course, we will have to hire a bunch of screeners to determine if that potential user is one or those NC's, just as NC must be doing to spot transgender people.
11
If anyone has a problem with this, let him or her wear Depends.
4
This entire GOP led transgender potty war is nothing but a political ploy to rally the base. There proposed restriction are completely unenforceable. No one can see what equipment one has once the stall door closes. Everyone has a right to privacy when they relieve themselves.
The GOP is doing what the GOP does best. It is creating fear about a nonexistent problem. They do the same with voter fraud. They do the same with guns everywhere. Now it's potty terror.
As a straight man with hair down to the middle of his shoulders, who likes to wear bright colors and prints, (if I can find them), I have to put up with an endless sea of drab black and gray, tattered clothes, stained and often unwashed. But there are no fashionista only restrooms.
Should I be forced to use a special restroom because of my attire? Should there be special places to go potty for men whose shirts go with their pants and shoes?
This campaign against trans people is just as nonsensical. I'm a guy with a neon shirt and shoes that go with it. I like to dress up. That's who I am. Get over it.
Trans people are who they are. GOP, get over it. Let them be who they are.
The GOP is doing what the GOP does best. It is creating fear about a nonexistent problem. They do the same with voter fraud. They do the same with guns everywhere. Now it's potty terror.
As a straight man with hair down to the middle of his shoulders, who likes to wear bright colors and prints, (if I can find them), I have to put up with an endless sea of drab black and gray, tattered clothes, stained and often unwashed. But there are no fashionista only restrooms.
Should I be forced to use a special restroom because of my attire? Should there be special places to go potty for men whose shirts go with their pants and shoes?
This campaign against trans people is just as nonsensical. I'm a guy with a neon shirt and shoes that go with it. I like to dress up. That's who I am. Get over it.
Trans people are who they are. GOP, get over it. Let them be who they are.
45
"...nothing but a political ploy to rally the base."
It occurs to me that they must not be terribly sure about the loyalty or enthusiasm for voting in their base if they have to keep "rallying" them by stoking their fears with false claims like these. Of course, "tax cuts for the rich" is no longer a slogan that works on the new brand of Republican voters who have discovered that they are never going to be among the group that benefits from those tax cuts, because no matter what they do, much less who they vote for, the rich will, if allowed to, always make sure they stay an ever-increasing number of steps ahead of everyone else who is trying to catch up.
It occurs to me that they must not be terribly sure about the loyalty or enthusiasm for voting in their base if they have to keep "rallying" them by stoking their fears with false claims like these. Of course, "tax cuts for the rich" is no longer a slogan that works on the new brand of Republican voters who have discovered that they are never going to be among the group that benefits from those tax cuts, because no matter what they do, much less who they vote for, the rich will, if allowed to, always make sure they stay an ever-increasing number of steps ahead of everyone else who is trying to catch up.
1
Eleven Democrats voted for this bill in the North Carolina House of Representatives and no Democratic Senators voted against it. Democratic Senators walked out to avoid voting on the issue at all because many were going to vote for it and they did not want show their division.
2
I do not know who established the use of the term, but in my brain it is priceless and fits the GOP perfectly: "POTTY WAR"! But I could be wrong - it could simply be a reference to their, the Bush Gang that is , conduct of the Iraq War to achieve "mission accomplished".........I believe we are quite lucky though - the Potty War could have had something to do with WMDs. Scary, huh!?
I'm far more worried about the safety of trans women forced to use a men's bathroom than for the safety of cis women/girls sharing a public restroom with a trans woman. I am certain that the statistics of cis male violence towards trans women far exceeds the nearly nonexistent incidence of trans woman violence towards cis gendered women.
This is just part and parcel of a whole slew of imagined problems (such as voter identity fraud or infringements on the "religious freedom" to discriminate) that the reactionary right gets their panties in a twist about that but are thinly disguised attempts to enforce social power dynamics. Nero fiddles while Rome burns. There are far more urgent issues to consider such as climate change, infrastructure support, income inequality, et alia, than worrying over who is peeing in which toilet stall.
This is just part and parcel of a whole slew of imagined problems (such as voter identity fraud or infringements on the "religious freedom" to discriminate) that the reactionary right gets their panties in a twist about that but are thinly disguised attempts to enforce social power dynamics. Nero fiddles while Rome burns. There are far more urgent issues to consider such as climate change, infrastructure support, income inequality, et alia, than worrying over who is peeing in which toilet stall.
32
The only people I fear in washrooms are Republican politicians whose hands I see reaching underneath the stalls...and, former wrestling coaches.
41
Yes, Frank, Donald Trump does have (some) redeeming values. So, too, do copperhead snakes. Yes, I would much rather pee standing next to Trump, in drag or no, than next to a member of Akgistrodon contortrix.
Copperheads are scary and potentially dangerous. Trump is more so, on the scary scale and absolutely so on the dangerous one.
Copperheads, ecologically, are useful and beneficial. Trumps are...........not.
Copperheads are scary and potentially dangerous. Trump is more so, on the scary scale and absolutely so on the dangerous one.
Copperheads, ecologically, are useful and beneficial. Trumps are...........not.
6
Unisex toilets can be found in other countries. No big deal, no urinals, everyone uses a stall
First it was the push for voter ID despite no evidence of fraud and now it's much ado about who uses which rest room when no problems have occurred.
Can we just focus on actual problems for a change.
First it was the push for voter ID despite no evidence of fraud and now it's much ado about who uses which rest room when no problems have occurred.
Can we just focus on actual problems for a change.
48
If there's an inchoate fear, it's this one. If people would just stop and think for one second, they would realize. 1. A bathroom is the antithesis of a social setting. People go into them to relieve themselves, not to talk or linger or to check each other out. 2. People who live in states where bathrooms are open to trans people have no problems with it, many because nobody can possibly know who is trans and who isn't. 3. The real issue is simply a refusal to accept that trans is a biological phenomenon that has been with us always. It's just that Trans people are no longer willing to hide. Please fearful ones, don't be afraid. It won't affect you but it will make life easier for trans people who, like all people, need to use the bathroom. As for Ted Cruz, if you're worried about your little girls, take them to a stall in the men's room. We fathers do it all the time.
48
Almost no transsexuals really look like the opposite sex -- they wouldn't convince a small child.
The VERY few who do look pretty convincing (due to unusual genetic qualities, like small hands or feet, delicate facial features, etc.) are ballyhooed by the media, but they are an extreme minority among extreme minorities.
"Caitlyn" Jenner only looks convincing when shot by Annie Liebowitz, with lots of filters and mist and Photoshop -- her hands behind her back -- if you see real photos of "Caitlyn", he looks just like a man in a wig. A pathetic, sad man trying desperately to look female when he is very, very male.
Whatever you believe, "trans" is not a BIOLOGICAL phenomenon at all. It is social and cultural at best. It has no biological roots whatsoever. It's only roots are in mental illness.
The VERY few who do look pretty convincing (due to unusual genetic qualities, like small hands or feet, delicate facial features, etc.) are ballyhooed by the media, but they are an extreme minority among extreme minorities.
"Caitlyn" Jenner only looks convincing when shot by Annie Liebowitz, with lots of filters and mist and Photoshop -- her hands behind her back -- if you see real photos of "Caitlyn", he looks just like a man in a wig. A pathetic, sad man trying desperately to look female when he is very, very male.
Whatever you believe, "trans" is not a BIOLOGICAL phenomenon at all. It is social and cultural at best. It has no biological roots whatsoever. It's only roots are in mental illness.
2
Unreal. All the virtue signallers of the left are getting in line to show off how cool they are with all things trans. If women and girls have to be thrown under the bus to accomplish that, they'll do it.
Frank Bruni uses the usual absurd arguments:
1. "Trans women" aren't a threat to women. The assumption here is that trans women are a) not sexually attracted to women, b) have medically transitioned so they can't be a danger to women anyway. This is a false assumption. Many men who call themselves "trans women" keep their penises and have sexual relationships with women. Why should this group of men be assumed to be incapable of sexual assault? As an example, Dana McCauley, a man who lived as a woman, was convicted of raping his wife. (Using his still intact penis.) When I read about it in the newspaper, it was described as "lesbian intimate partner violence."
2. Non trans men will not use this to gain access to women's spaces. Bruni actually mocks this, like it's crazy talk. But it has already happened. A man in Toronto claiming to be trans demanded access to a battered women's shelter. They had to let him in and he raped two of the women there. The University of Toronto had some gender neutral bathrooms and there ended up being a problem with men holding camera phones over the dividers to film women. They had to reconvert some of their bathrooms to women only.
Don't mock women for being concerned for our safety. We have good reasons.
Frank Bruni uses the usual absurd arguments:
1. "Trans women" aren't a threat to women. The assumption here is that trans women are a) not sexually attracted to women, b) have medically transitioned so they can't be a danger to women anyway. This is a false assumption. Many men who call themselves "trans women" keep their penises and have sexual relationships with women. Why should this group of men be assumed to be incapable of sexual assault? As an example, Dana McCauley, a man who lived as a woman, was convicted of raping his wife. (Using his still intact penis.) When I read about it in the newspaper, it was described as "lesbian intimate partner violence."
2. Non trans men will not use this to gain access to women's spaces. Bruni actually mocks this, like it's crazy talk. But it has already happened. A man in Toronto claiming to be trans demanded access to a battered women's shelter. They had to let him in and he raped two of the women there. The University of Toronto had some gender neutral bathrooms and there ended up being a problem with men holding camera phones over the dividers to film women. They had to reconvert some of their bathrooms to women only.
Don't mock women for being concerned for our safety. We have good reasons.
27
You can't "demand access" to a battered woman's shelter. News flash -- non-trans men have always been able to dress as women if they want to attack women in the bathroom. Nothing about this law will hinder that.
Dana McCallum (you should at least get the name right) didn't rape her wife in a public restroom, did she? Also, the victim in that crime has publicly asked that people like you not use her case as any kind of attack on the transgender community. So it is not like you are protecting her.
http://www.myhusbandbetty.com/2014/10/16/its-not-about-her-ex-a-trans-pa...
Funny story -- googling Toronto battered women's shelter murder doesn't turn up your story. Maybe you got the name of the city wrong?
Dana McCallum (you should at least get the name right) didn't rape her wife in a public restroom, did she? Also, the victim in that crime has publicly asked that people like you not use her case as any kind of attack on the transgender community. So it is not like you are protecting her.
http://www.myhusbandbetty.com/2014/10/16/its-not-about-her-ex-a-trans-pa...
Funny story -- googling Toronto battered women's shelter murder doesn't turn up your story. Maybe you got the name of the city wrong?
2
It is possible for trans people to be predatory, just as it is possible for heterosexual people to be predatory. I'd like to see the data about who are the predators. I suspect the greater threat is from heterosexual males. Of course women need to be safe as much as possible, as do children. Do you send your 10 year-old son into the men's room alone? What is the likelihood of him being molested in a public restroom full of other people, say, at a movie theatre or restaurant? The problem is not about trans people, but rather about sexual predators and offenders. It's important we not harm innocent people while trying to protect ourselves. No witch hunts, please. They won't solve the real problem. The predators will still be out there when the trans people are either locked up or driven back undergrand.
26
Absolutely yes.
The media is FULL of stories about transsexuals -- usually but not always MTF -- who transition but STAY with their former wives. Also men who "transition" to female via surgery or hormones -- only to suddenly discover that "hey I still like women! so I guess I'm...a LESBIAN".
Anyways: I have no fear of transsexuals hurting me. Most are very passive.
My fear is that once you say there are no rules, and "anyone can use any bathroom", my privacy will be violated by MEN (real biological men) who just want to get into the ladies room. There are many stories of men cutting peepholes into ladies rooms! Now they will have THE RIGHT to enter, and expose themselves or attack women -- because nobody will be able to tell them "please leave" lest they get accused of a hate crime.
The media is FULL of stories about transsexuals -- usually but not always MTF -- who transition but STAY with their former wives. Also men who "transition" to female via surgery or hormones -- only to suddenly discover that "hey I still like women! so I guess I'm...a LESBIAN".
Anyways: I have no fear of transsexuals hurting me. Most are very passive.
My fear is that once you say there are no rules, and "anyone can use any bathroom", my privacy will be violated by MEN (real biological men) who just want to get into the ladies room. There are many stories of men cutting peepholes into ladies rooms! Now they will have THE RIGHT to enter, and expose themselves or attack women -- because nobody will be able to tell them "please leave" lest they get accused of a hate crime.
1
Sorry but the devil is in the details as in the law. What the self appointed PC police are proposing is the women and girls be subject to men using their bathrooms and LOCKER ROOMs if the men consider themselves female. And the reason for this change? Some lesbians and gays want to pretend their bodies are not what they are. Well how about if Obama leads by examples and ask all the males as his daughters' school start using the girls' locker room.
11
"Some lesbians and gays want to pretend their bodies are not what they are."
And a lot of straights want to pretend that the biological facts about gender formation are simply non-existent . . . like climate science. But there is no reason why transgender men and women, and the people who love and support them, should be bound by the ignorance and prejudice of others.
And a lot of straights want to pretend that the biological facts about gender formation are simply non-existent . . . like climate science. But there is no reason why transgender men and women, and the people who love and support them, should be bound by the ignorance and prejudice of others.
4
Don't forget: Men would be subject to what you would describe as women and girls (even though they would consider themselves to be male) using their toilets too. Oh, gee, that already happens when there are not enough stalls for women in their rest room and they have no choice but to resort to excusing themselves as they enter a men's room to avoid an accident in public. I suppose Sen. Cruz and the members of the NC legislature who voted for the bill become apoplectic when this happens. You wouldn't like it here in Japan, where for the most part, it is women who clean public toilets, both men's and women's, all day every day. Guess what. I have never been molested by one of them. Why would you assume that men would be any different? You aren't a member of a group that wants women to cover themselves from head to toe for fear the men around them would sexually assault them if they could see a smidgen of skin, are you? As Mr. Bruni points out, there are sufficient laws in every state that prohibit unwanted sexual advances regardless of the gender of the predator or victim. Don't they mean anything? If not, then no laws have any meaning, including the new NC statute. The purpose of the law is not to protect anyone but to let the world know what kind of people the NC legislature and their supporters don't like, period.
Actually you're not very good with details. No one's suggesting all males use female locker rooms.
1
Anybody concerned with the genitalia of persons using a toilet are the ones who should be prohibited from entering a public rest room.
86
Trump does have this amazing ability to be right sometimes even though he is unpleasant, likely because he isn't a bought career politician and thus isn't following the party line.
I'm reminded of his laudable mention of how, no, Bush II didn't exactly "keep us safe". The audience at that debate with Jeb booed because they've already started to forget how devastating the early 2000s were for us.
I'm reminded of his laudable mention of how, no, Bush II didn't exactly "keep us safe". The audience at that debate with Jeb booed because they've already started to forget how devastating the early 2000s were for us.
27
If one feels duty-bound to be a hateful bigot because they think they can conjure accurate images of molestation of children, then they are also duty-bound to get their statistical ducks in a row. It's well known that most child molesters are not LGB or T, but the hetero male relatives of the children molested. You know, like most of the N.C legislature.
72
The North Carolina laws makes no mention of children, pedophiles, perverts, or rapists. The primary purpose of the law is to provide privacy for women who don’t want to share restrooms with men or to men who don’t want to share restrooms with women.
1
Bless you Bruni.
People need to go to the bathroom. Let them go to the bathroom.
Is this an issue for our Presidential candidates? Is this something we want our police forces worrying about?
I know plenty of women who go to the men's room in fancy restaurants when the ladies loo is full. It didn't hurt anybody.
We have become a nation of passionate idiots.
People need to go to the bathroom. Let them go to the bathroom.
Is this an issue for our Presidential candidates? Is this something we want our police forces worrying about?
I know plenty of women who go to the men's room in fancy restaurants when the ladies loo is full. It didn't hurt anybody.
We have become a nation of passionate idiots.
93
More liberal nonsense taking the Republican stand on bathrooms as a "serious" belief by the right.
The right doesn't care about the truth. They care about their power.
The most virulent Republican prejudice isn't against people of color, or women, or gays.
The Republican Prejudice is now against Americans.
The new Republican Mantra is "Americans can do with less. Americans can do with less. Americans can do with less. Americans can do with less."
Less drinking water, less economic opportunity, less education, less accessibility to voting, less convenience and less actual information, less health care, less social security, less decent infrastructure, less.....well, you name it, and the Republicans want Americans to have less of it.
The Republican Party of Today is only against one group of people.
Americans.
The right doesn't care about the truth. They care about their power.
The most virulent Republican prejudice isn't against people of color, or women, or gays.
The Republican Prejudice is now against Americans.
The new Republican Mantra is "Americans can do with less. Americans can do with less. Americans can do with less. Americans can do with less."
Less drinking water, less economic opportunity, less education, less accessibility to voting, less convenience and less actual information, less health care, less social security, less decent infrastructure, less.....well, you name it, and the Republicans want Americans to have less of it.
The Republican Party of Today is only against one group of people.
Americans.
141
Cruz's entire argument seems to hinge on creating fear of some future threat, as though transgender people have just appeared on the planet and will soon begin to use the restroom. But here's some news, Senator Cruz: Transgender folks have been goin' potty with everyone else since before any of us were born, and nobody gives a... Well nobody has noticed. Methinks politicians should not drink so much tea, and get government out of the bathroom.
98
What's happened to the word 'toilet?' Delicacy?
L&B&L
L&B&L
My Internet research shows that there are 1 in 35,000 former mail transsexuals and 1 in 100,000 former females - that an average of 1 in 65,000. That is 0.0015% of the population, or about 5,000 Americans. Future generations will not believe that this was an election year issue!
126
"Future generations"?
Ha...good one.
Ha...good one.
1
Thanks for putting it its place
Gee Ted, Just like my wife, the mom's of those little girls are going to be in that bathroom with them... making sure there is no problem!
6
Despite this asinine and perhaps unconstitutional laws, people will go on using the restrooms they've been using all along and no one will notice. The Ted Cruzes of this world will probably next want to pass laws preventing people from speaking Arabic in a public restroom.
8
This issue is just a conservative dog whistle to fire up the religious right. As such, it's in the same class as the Willie Horton commercials or the gay marriage ads of previous campaigns.
It has nothing to do with governance and everything to do with getting the conservative base to line up behind Cruz instead of Trump --- and later the R candidate over the D candidate.
It has nothing to do with governance and everything to do with getting the conservative base to line up behind Cruz instead of Trump --- and later the R candidate over the D candidate.
5
Of course, any person who assaults, menaces, touches, or harasses a child is breaking the law. Any person who does the same to a woman (or a man) is also breaking the law. What I am uncomfortable with is the possibility that a male with a sexual urge, objective, or fetish, could enter a female restroom and obtain his sexual gratification from seeing women in the bathroom. He doesn't have to touch, harass, or assault anyone. He doesn't have to break the law in any way, and I'd still be uncomfortable with the idea that he might be getting sexual gratification from being in a female bathroom. Having a law that, in essence, would allow anyone to claim "transgender sanctuary" and find legal immunity for simply being in an opposite- sex bathroom is disquieting because, in absence of any scientific or legal way to distinguish "real" transgender people from those simply trying to take advantage, anyone who claims to be transgender would be protected. If a male claims to be transgender, enters a female restroom, and does nothing outwardly unsavory to anyone, how can I be sure he isn't getting sexual gratification but is simply restraining himself physically? As a society, we can make choices. We can choose who we want to put on our money, or the best way to combat climate change. We can also check each other's desires, opinions, and ideas. We can say "there's nothing wrong with sexual urges, but fulfill them in private at home. The public is not here for your consumption".
4
Really? If someone comes into a public bathroom you are able to read their innermost thoughts and you get "disquieted " by someone who does nothing outwardly unsavory to anyone? I respectfully suggest that you stay home, with the shades drawn and the lights out, with blanket and binky at the ready. It's a scary world out there.
1
The male who is transgender physically makes himself look like a woman in every regard, not just by putting a dress on, but by taking hormones and having surgeries. You will not be seeing people who look like men in the women's bathroom. This law is forcing these people who look like women to use the men's bathroom.
13
How many men get some kind of sexual gratification simply by looking at women? We have a much bigger problem with sexual harassment in the workplace and elsewhere than with trans people using bathrooms. While I don't dispute that women and children need to feel and be safe everywhere, including in restrooms, the issue of men--trans or otherwise--feeling sexually gratified by looking at women is going to be a difficult one to address. In some societies, they simply lock up the women in their homes, or force them to cover up head to toe. You raise an enormous issue. As a woman, I'm not comfortable being constantly reminded I'm female by the sexual innuendo and advances of men. The best way to deal with this is to have laws about harassment and predation, and to raise our sons to respect women and understand appropriate boundaries.
2
Although I don’t really care about sharing bathrooms with transgendered women, I can understand why some men would be bothered by it, and why some women would feel uncomfortable sharing bathrooms with transgender men. What I am really sick of are people, and today this goes for both sides of the political aisle, who are always so sure they are right that there has to be something wrong with people who think differently, they are always evil or bigoted or dumb. We are a big diverse country not just because of race, religion, and gender but also because of our ideas, and somewhere along the line, we have forgotten to be tolerant of people with whom we disagree. Instead of discussing our different ideas and outlooks, we beat each other up over them, each side sure they are reasonable and the other isn’t, each side a self-righteous mob warring with the other. It is exhausting just to listen to it and a waste of time to participate in it. I wish we could just stop it.
In any diverse society, cultural change will move too fast for some people, because of their faith or just because they have different sensibilities, and they will be uncomfortable with new ways. I can think of a better example of this than unisex bathrooms. Can’t we have empathy for them as well as the transgendered? If we did, maybe there would be fewer overreactions like South Carolina’s bathroom law. Why can’t we just get along?
Why must every cultural change precipitate a culture war?
In any diverse society, cultural change will move too fast for some people, because of their faith or just because they have different sensibilities, and they will be uncomfortable with new ways. I can think of a better example of this than unisex bathrooms. Can’t we have empathy for them as well as the transgendered? If we did, maybe there would be fewer overreactions like South Carolina’s bathroom law. Why can’t we just get along?
Why must every cultural change precipitate a culture war?
6
The sentence "I can think of a better example of this than unisex bathrooms."
should be "I can't think of a better example of this than unisex bathrooms."
When will the Times find a way to allow us to edit comments before the are reviewed?
should be "I can't think of a better example of this than unisex bathrooms."
When will the Times find a way to allow us to edit comments before the are reviewed?
I am standing up cheering for your op-ed!
4
What's lost in this discussion is that the bathroom issue is just a smokescreen for a much broader and more insidious law. The same law also prohibits the more progressive North Carolina cities from passing their own legislation that enacts protections for LGBT citizens and prohibits them from passing minimum wage laws higher than the current state law.
The 4th circuit in a Virginia case has recently spoken about the bathroom issue, the other parts of the law have not made it to the courts.
The 4th circuit in a Virginia case has recently spoken about the bathroom issue, the other parts of the law have not made it to the courts.
20
There's a gender-identity problem in Ted Cruz's ad -
Should a grown man ...
Be allowed to use the woman's restroom?
The same restroom used by your daughter?
Your wife?
Fifty percent of American voters are female. Only a small percentage of females have wives.
On the other hand, Donald Trump is not a stupid as some of us want to believe. He is courting LGBT votes. He thinks he will win with independents, many of whom have no interest in radical right rhetoric.
Should a grown man ...
Be allowed to use the woman's restroom?
The same restroom used by your daughter?
Your wife?
Fifty percent of American voters are female. Only a small percentage of females have wives.
On the other hand, Donald Trump is not a stupid as some of us want to believe. He is courting LGBT votes. He thinks he will win with independents, many of whom have no interest in radical right rhetoric.
3
I believe that Trump only talks like a narrow minded bigoted xenophobic sexist prude when he's in his pandering for votes state of mind. He learned early in his candidacy that being that way can also get him lots of attention and approval. As I see it, Donald Trump is a person with few solid convictions beyond The Art of the Deal, winning, and feeding his ego. He's more a fly by the seat of his pants go with the flow kind of guy. Besides, real prudes don't have affairs or have five children by three different wives. So, his open minded transgender toilet response isn't surprising to me. Will the real Donald Trump stand up. I think he just did.
3
As the victim of a pedophile, I understand parent's worry. But here's the thing: pedophiles, generally, want the child's love. They're usually someone the parents know and trust.
When children are a bit older, it's their older peers and status seeking.
We are trying to blame transgender men and women for the harm caused by people who are already in parent's circle of trust. Clergymen, coaches, and great uncles. They gain access to children with good deeds. (I know, most kind and generous men are not pedophiles.) Victims of pedophiles, who usually adore their abuser as the abuse begins, hear parents discuss what great people the pedophile is. That's part of what binds children to silence.
Pedophiles buy access to your children with the goodwill they sow in your community. It's heartbreaking for everyone involved, including the beneficiaries of all that kindness when revealed the crime against a child (typically, many children) is revealed. It taints all that good.
And it's got absolutely nothing to do with transgender men and women relieving themselves in bathrooms.
When children are a bit older, it's their older peers and status seeking.
We are trying to blame transgender men and women for the harm caused by people who are already in parent's circle of trust. Clergymen, coaches, and great uncles. They gain access to children with good deeds. (I know, most kind and generous men are not pedophiles.) Victims of pedophiles, who usually adore their abuser as the abuse begins, hear parents discuss what great people the pedophile is. That's part of what binds children to silence.
Pedophiles buy access to your children with the goodwill they sow in your community. It's heartbreaking for everyone involved, including the beneficiaries of all that kindness when revealed the crime against a child (typically, many children) is revealed. It taints all that good.
And it's got absolutely nothing to do with transgender men and women relieving themselves in bathrooms.
44
Who are they going to check in NC restrooms. Everybody that enters the bathroom has to have a birth certificates or they will pull over the womens who might look not so feminine. or men who don't look masculine enough.
6
It's a never ending pattern, every election the GOP think tanks provide their flock with a new moralistic identifier, setting themselves above the party of the working class. They gave US the "Moral Majority", and later they claimed to be the "Values Voters". But this time it seems, like the Fonz, they have really jumped the shark. Sen Cruz and his "Restroom Republicans", only appear more out of touch with society, today, than morally superior, to it.
19
This is the kind of distraction that is the hallmark of the GOP. Throw out some idiotic nonsense and see how many idiots take the bait. It's akin to the "we can't say Merry Christmas anymore" rant that they drag out each year between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Only this is even more stupid and evil because it's aim is to further marginalize and harm people who have already been dealt a difficult path in life having been born with genitalia that doesn't match their brain in regard to their gender identification. Only truly evil people look for ways to marginalize groups of people and only truly evil people look at others and immediately assume that they are perverts simply because they are different. People who accuse others of perversion or of being liars or thieves always arouse my suspicion about them because only evil people project on to others their own dirty secrets and thoughts.
40
Columnists need to **stop making every story about Donald Trump**. Surely there are any number of politicians with rational, steady views on this matter who can be quoted?
9
Hey, when Courtney Love walks to the mic everyone comes running.
I don't care if you're interviewing Bob Dylan at the time, crazy trumps (clever hey?) intelligent every time.
And Trump is nothing if not crazy.
I don't care if you're interviewing Bob Dylan at the time, crazy trumps (clever hey?) intelligent every time.
And Trump is nothing if not crazy.
But that is the point, really. Trump is not rational or steady in his views, yet even he sees this as a preposterous non-issue, a "solution in search of a problem."
Have any of these people ever been in an airplane bathroom? As a woman, I have to share a phone booth size bathroom with men whom don't put the toilet seat down and somehow manage to pee on the floor. Enough said.
27
And as a man, I have had the experience of entering airplane bathrooms after women have peed on the seat, clogged the toilet with tampons , left a mound of toilet paper on the floor and/or sprayed perfume that made the room barely breathable. I think there are considerate people and inconsiderate ones, and gender has very little to do with it. Enough said.
3
C'mon, MAJ.....it ain't easy ya know..........
But you're not in that airplane bathroom with a man, are you? And anyone with a penis is a man, even if he is in a dress and claims that he's a woman. And do you want to share your locker room with biological men?
2
This ridiculous non-issue is a perfect example of symbolic displacement. The real conversation is not about toilets. It is about the anxiety some people feel when confronted with the fact that gender is an imprecise and permeable category. Even biological sex is not the cornerstone of identity it used to be because we now control our reproduction. For those left behind by the social change, the world in which your gender may eventually become as unimportant as the color of your eyes - and as amenable to technological modification - is a scary place. So they pitch their banner in the public toilet, defending the last place where men are men and women are women! It'd be pathetic if it were not so embarrassing.
23
Gender is absolute. It is not imprecise and it is NOT 'permeable".
Nobody can change their gender or sex. It is physically impossible.
Just as you cannot change your race. Or your species. Or your eye color.
If you think you can change your eye color -- for real, not contact lenses -- you are nuts.
The truth is more important than a lie. No human being has ever changed their gender in fact. It is all clothing, make up, surgery, hormones -- smoke & mirrors. But it is not the truth.
Nobody can change their gender or sex. It is physically impossible.
Just as you cannot change your race. Or your species. Or your eye color.
If you think you can change your eye color -- for real, not contact lenses -- you are nuts.
The truth is more important than a lie. No human being has ever changed their gender in fact. It is all clothing, make up, surgery, hormones -- smoke & mirrors. But it is not the truth.
3
How do we legislate stupid? Let North Carolina and Mississippi show the way.
Many of the same states mandating birth certificate public bathrooms allow guns there, open or concealed carry, with no sense whatever of the danger to children. If I were the parent of a young kid, I'd choose the transgender accessible loo over the one where hetero nutbars "pee while packing" any day of the week.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
Many of the same states mandating birth certificate public bathrooms allow guns there, open or concealed carry, with no sense whatever of the danger to children. If I were the parent of a young kid, I'd choose the transgender accessible loo over the one where hetero nutbars "pee while packing" any day of the week.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
84
'Many of the same states mandating birth certificate public bathrooms allow guns there, open or concealed carry, with no sense whatever of the danger to children.'
Perhaps, as in voting in some these states, a gun should serve for bathroom admission in lieu of birth certificate. Anyone carrying a weapon in (ahem) compensation could hardly be a sexual predator, right?
Perhaps, as in voting in some these states, a gun should serve for bathroom admission in lieu of birth certificate. Anyone carrying a weapon in (ahem) compensation could hardly be a sexual predator, right?
1
Thank heaven, not one Ted Cruz ad ran here in NYC before the GOP primary a week ago. I was saved from the vile stream of filth that comes out of that cretin's twisted mouth. Still, I liked seeing the ad posted in this editorial. It's important to be reminded, from time to time, how low some people will sink in their cesspool of hate and lies in order to gain political power as well as the corrupted values many of our fellow citizens have in supporting such a man. As ludicrous as the donald (lower case intentional) might be, no one in contemporary politics comes close to the vermin-infested filth that is Ted Cruz. Any DECENT person has NOTHING to learn from either and must only feel the most profound contempt for BOTH.
73
Let me get this straight--I might need my birth certificate (laminated for protection) in order to use a public restroom (assuming that professional law enforcement officers are posted at every door, relegated to hall moniter duty and checking everyone who needs to pee and inspecting the necessary plumbing), but everyone will be okay if I wander in with a rifle slung over my shoulder and my index finger hovering over the trigger guard, and I won't need any paperwork indicating that I have no known mental issues or arrests for violent behavior.
The time it takes to read the previous sentence is about 5 seconds more than it takes for the average mammal, male or female, to urinate. Okay, add another 30 seconds for handwashing and my point is the same: transgender people just want to pee and are no more likely to bother "wives and children" than anyone else. I threw in the part about the gun just to confuse the issue. I'm sure the open carry folks will be happy to check their weapons with the officers at the door.
The time it takes to read the previous sentence is about 5 seconds more than it takes for the average mammal, male or female, to urinate. Okay, add another 30 seconds for handwashing and my point is the same: transgender people just want to pee and are no more likely to bother "wives and children" than anyone else. I threw in the part about the gun just to confuse the issue. I'm sure the open carry folks will be happy to check their weapons with the officers at the door.
94
' ... my point is the same: transgender people just want to pee and are no more likely to bother "wives and children" than anyone else.'
Mr. Bozo: The logical extension of your reasoning is simply that there need not be separate bathrooms for the different genders either - except for the weirdoes, no one is going to bother anyone from the 'other' gender.
Would you like to see that?
Maybe we should all wear those all-covering Arabic dresses with only a slit for the eyes - well, may be another one, or two, for other activities - and we don't even have to worry about who is of what gender.
Mr. Bozo: The logical extension of your reasoning is simply that there need not be separate bathrooms for the different genders either - except for the weirdoes, no one is going to bother anyone from the 'other' gender.
Would you like to see that?
Maybe we should all wear those all-covering Arabic dresses with only a slit for the eyes - well, may be another one, or two, for other activities - and we don't even have to worry about who is of what gender.
1
Good analogy, tempest in a teapot. The right fails to ask the salient question, is it a problem and if so, how large? As to the North Carolina law, as I noted previously, the problem with the law passed by the legislature's law was not about bathrooms, it was the fact that the law explicitly excluded LGBT as a protected class across the board in a much larger swath of housing, education and most aspects of life. The bathroom debate was a very convenient diversion by the right.
11
Coupla things.
First, while it's rare it's not unheard-of that I agree with something Frank Bruni writes. This is one of those times: for a number of reasons, this whole matter of who uses which bathrooms has become just ... excessive. Then, as I've been noting in this forum for quite some time, Donald Trump would not represent the antichrist and if elected president might surprise a lot of Americans by how sensible, adult and ideologically balanced his governance would be.
Even for those adamantly opposed to transgender use of bathrooms that don't conform to genders on birth certificates, it remains that only about 700,000 individuals in the U.S. identify as "transgender", or 0.3% of the adult population. This is the practical reason why the sulfuric reaction of some is so excessive. A 10-year-old girl, even one unwisely unaccompanied by her mother into a public bathroom, is about as likely to meet a transgender woman as she is a Yeti; or a liberal Democrat in North Carolina. And perhaps it's not a bad thing even if she happened to discover that all women are NOT under 6'3" and that some might sport a couple of days of chin-whiskers. The world won't end.
I'm going to start counting the times Frank writes "Let’s listen to Trump. I write that sentence abashedly, and with no expectation of repeating it much." He, and the Times readership, might be surprised at how many times he's caught writing it.
First, while it's rare it's not unheard-of that I agree with something Frank Bruni writes. This is one of those times: for a number of reasons, this whole matter of who uses which bathrooms has become just ... excessive. Then, as I've been noting in this forum for quite some time, Donald Trump would not represent the antichrist and if elected president might surprise a lot of Americans by how sensible, adult and ideologically balanced his governance would be.
Even for those adamantly opposed to transgender use of bathrooms that don't conform to genders on birth certificates, it remains that only about 700,000 individuals in the U.S. identify as "transgender", or 0.3% of the adult population. This is the practical reason why the sulfuric reaction of some is so excessive. A 10-year-old girl, even one unwisely unaccompanied by her mother into a public bathroom, is about as likely to meet a transgender woman as she is a Yeti; or a liberal Democrat in North Carolina. And perhaps it's not a bad thing even if she happened to discover that all women are NOT under 6'3" and that some might sport a couple of days of chin-whiskers. The world won't end.
I'm going to start counting the times Frank writes "Let’s listen to Trump. I write that sentence abashedly, and with no expectation of repeating it much." He, and the Times readership, might be surprised at how many times he's caught writing it.
2
I love how evil Ted Cruz gets when you start listening to what he has to say. I'm a Bernie supporter, but dang this makes me really hope more Republicans vote for Trump. Or Kasich, I guess he is still running to be President.
7
Most of the people making the fuss about trans people in the "wrong" bathroom are, interestingly, not women or girls--they are men. After all, all the stalls in women's bathrooms are closed. Could it be that the real ooginess to these guys is standing at a urinal beside a trans person? Or imagining doing so? Who knows what is going on in their heads. Whatever it is, it would be nice for them not to inflict it on others.
7
We have to stop looking for logic. The North Carolina law took away all rights for the LGBT community, but the argument is about transgenders wearing dresses going into the girl's room.
Of course, underneath this is hate. Hate for all gays or hate for all people whole approach to sexuality isn't totally conventional. Hate for Mexicans, Moslems, and many other groups.
The good news is the haters will lose. It's not South against North and East and West, it's rural people imposing their moralistic beliefs against more tolerant people in the cities. Corporate America will make the haters pay the price. The Governor of North Carolina says he thinks it's common sense to back this legislation and he will be voted out of office. Reason will prevail.
Of course, underneath this is hate. Hate for all gays or hate for all people whole approach to sexuality isn't totally conventional. Hate for Mexicans, Moslems, and many other groups.
The good news is the haters will lose. It's not South against North and East and West, it's rural people imposing their moralistic beliefs against more tolerant people in the cities. Corporate America will make the haters pay the price. The Governor of North Carolina says he thinks it's common sense to back this legislation and he will be voted out of office. Reason will prevail.
5
I am not a pervert or a predator. My lover is 8 years older than me. Anyone younger than 28 is just too immature, so Mr. Cruz, I assure you that your daughter is safe from me. Conservatives think that anyone that doesn't have only missionary sex after marriage for procreation are all insane perverts.
8
The problem is on people's head. How many of us have inadvertently entered the wrong gender bathroom. I've done it more than once. Twice at work once they swapped the men's and women's, once in airport where the only gender definition was a blue and pink plate by the doors, and once in a water park, yes a water park!
There were two doors for the same women's bathroom and locker room. I saw the sign on the first and entered the second door without looking. In it I and my three year old son showered and changed. Only after helping my son get dressed, some 15 minutes after I walked in, I raised my head and found myself surrounded by females of all ages, some in the nude, some on bikinis and swimsuits, all of them minding their own business. I said sorry and left. The only comment I heard was from a mother with a toddler chuckling how long it would take me realize I was on the wrong bathroom.
There were two doors for the same women's bathroom and locker room. I saw the sign on the first and entered the second door without looking. In it I and my three year old son showered and changed. Only after helping my son get dressed, some 15 minutes after I walked in, I raised my head and found myself surrounded by females of all ages, some in the nude, some on bikinis and swimsuits, all of them minding their own business. I said sorry and left. The only comment I heard was from a mother with a toddler chuckling how long it would take me realize I was on the wrong bathroom.
4
It's Deja vu all over again. In this crazy election year, one thing that's been largely missing is the cultural smoke-screen: The blown-out-of-all-proportion issue -- or non-issue -- designed to anesthetize voters' rational minds by over-stimulating their base irrational fears. Why? To avoid discussing REAL issues, of course. Remember school prayer? "Death panels"?
Well, the Tempest in a Toilet is this year's "school prayer," and kudos to Mr. Trump for refusing to participate. As a Republican candidate, no less. That's downright "presidential" IMO.
And kudos to Frank Bruni for pointing out that Mr. Trump can be, among other things, an honest champion of civil rights.
Well, the Tempest in a Toilet is this year's "school prayer," and kudos to Mr. Trump for refusing to participate. As a Republican candidate, no less. That's downright "presidential" IMO.
And kudos to Frank Bruni for pointing out that Mr. Trump can be, among other things, an honest champion of civil rights.
6
I don't need Trump for my common sense.
6
It's hard to believe that Republican politicians really care very much about the bathroom usage patterns of transgendered people. If they did, they would have raised a legal fuss many, many years ago.
I suspect that most conservative politicians see transgender isssues as a liberal political fad and a nascent wedge issue in their own disfavor, and that they are merely registering their protests against the liberal ideological hegemony that is making their lives miserable.
I suspect that most conservative politicians see transgender isssues as a liberal political fad and a nascent wedge issue in their own disfavor, and that they are merely registering their protests against the liberal ideological hegemony that is making their lives miserable.
4
I think what was missing when the North Carolina legislation made the national news was a quick MSM educational effort. That effort would have explained that transgender people conventionally use the restroom consistent with true sexual orientation, rather than the gender on their birth certificate. And that this practice has had no noticeable affects on straight restroom users. (If it had caused problems, rest assured that the Right wing media would be full of examples.)
When the NC issue hit me I had never had a single thought about it. My first thought was that the legislation had a cautionary purpose, i.e. warning transgenders not to contemplate or attempt the use of a restroom inconsistent with their birth certificate gender. As a no-nothing on transgender behavior I was waiting for some enlightenment from the media, but non came. In one form or another what Frank is saying here should have become common knowledge to the public within a few days. At a minimum it should have been said that the NC law bans a common, widespread, issue free, practice. Icing on the cake would be Frank's example of a hairy muscled man-apparent entering the ladies room and knocking on stall doors looking for an empty.
When the NC issue hit me I had never had a single thought about it. My first thought was that the legislation had a cautionary purpose, i.e. warning transgenders not to contemplate or attempt the use of a restroom inconsistent with their birth certificate gender. As a no-nothing on transgender behavior I was waiting for some enlightenment from the media, but non came. In one form or another what Frank is saying here should have become common knowledge to the public within a few days. At a minimum it should have been said that the NC law bans a common, widespread, issue free, practice. Icing on the cake would be Frank's example of a hairy muscled man-apparent entering the ladies room and knocking on stall doors looking for an empty.
Absolute absurdity, end of story. Completely unenforceable. Are we to have cameras installed in stalls? Maybe those airport scanners looking for man or lady parts under their pant/skirts at the entry to all public restrooms? Now maybe the GOP is looking for job creating here. If all public restrooms need monitors then that would mean millions of jobs around the clock. Of course the female monitors would make 60 cents on the dollar to the male monitors.
7
When the Civil War ended and slavery was abolished, the South could not accept a changing America. It continued to discriminate, promoted Confederate symbols, and permitted racist groups like the KKK to exist. Fast forward 150 years, and the South again cannot accept a changing America that has legalized same-sex marriage and dismantled the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Its reactionary "religious freedom" legislation and "bathroom laws" are a backlash against our country's growing acceptance of its LGBT citizens. Say what you will about each of the remaining presidential candidates, but Hillary Clinton is the only one to promote a badly needed message: We need more love and kindness in our country.
7
This has exactly zero to do with homosexuality.
By definition, transgender people ARE NOT homosexuals.
Gay and lesbian people are male & female, and use the same old bathrooms as the rest of us and always have. Most are NOT in favor of this anyways. They want privacy too!
By definition, transgender people ARE NOT homosexuals.
Gay and lesbian people are male & female, and use the same old bathrooms as the rest of us and always have. Most are NOT in favor of this anyways. They want privacy too!
1
Ted Cruz - why are your LITTLE daughters going into a public restrooms by themselves?
25
"Ted Cruz - why are your LITTLE daughters going into a public restrooms by themselves?"
Thank you Jahnay! That is a question that needs an answer. It is irresponsible in the extreme.
Thank you Jahnay! That is a question that needs an answer. It is irresponsible in the extreme.
1
It seems to me there are errors on both sides of this argument, and both sides are ignoring certain considerations.
In the first place, Bruni is correct is pointing out that it is absurd to require someone to use a restroom associated with their birth certificate. This kind of policy ignores the fact that many people who have fully transitioned now look more akin to the opposite sex, and would make those of their birth sex more uncomfortable, rather than less.
On the other hand, many liberals seem to be ignoring the reality that by institutionalizing allowing someone to do whatever they want based on some cognitive identity that cannot be falsified or confirmed, they are opening the door to all kinds of malfeasance that then cannot be challenged easily.
The arguments people trot out about "predators" attacking people in bathrooms seem to me to be missing the mark.
The common issue for both sides, I think, is what is the correct way to approach things so as not to make people uncomfortable, given that people's sexual anatomy and bodily functions are extremely private. Somehow a critical thing that is often lost is what effect this will have on common people. Women will bear the brunt of the discomfort, and their very real concerns about their privacy and safety, especially for young girls in school, seem to be taking a backseat to the concerns of a small minority. And that I think is a problem, because certainly women's concerns should be just as paramount.
In the first place, Bruni is correct is pointing out that it is absurd to require someone to use a restroom associated with their birth certificate. This kind of policy ignores the fact that many people who have fully transitioned now look more akin to the opposite sex, and would make those of their birth sex more uncomfortable, rather than less.
On the other hand, many liberals seem to be ignoring the reality that by institutionalizing allowing someone to do whatever they want based on some cognitive identity that cannot be falsified or confirmed, they are opening the door to all kinds of malfeasance that then cannot be challenged easily.
The arguments people trot out about "predators" attacking people in bathrooms seem to me to be missing the mark.
The common issue for both sides, I think, is what is the correct way to approach things so as not to make people uncomfortable, given that people's sexual anatomy and bodily functions are extremely private. Somehow a critical thing that is often lost is what effect this will have on common people. Women will bear the brunt of the discomfort, and their very real concerns about their privacy and safety, especially for young girls in school, seem to be taking a backseat to the concerns of a small minority. And that I think is a problem, because certainly women's concerns should be just as paramount.
8
At long last, someone who sees this issue from a sensible point of view.
I have a young daughter who is an athlete. I simply do not want her put in a situation where she is forced to share locker and shower facilities with a transgendered person with fully intact male parts. For me this comes down to the natural desire for privacy that exists between the sexes.
I do not fear for her safety. I am completely sympathetic with the emotional suffering of the transgendered. I simply don't want her exposed (no pun intended) to situations that will unavoidably arise if folks can select the facility of their choice.
I have a young daughter who is an athlete. I simply do not want her put in a situation where she is forced to share locker and shower facilities with a transgendered person with fully intact male parts. For me this comes down to the natural desire for privacy that exists between the sexes.
I do not fear for her safety. I am completely sympathetic with the emotional suffering of the transgendered. I simply don't want her exposed (no pun intended) to situations that will unavoidably arise if folks can select the facility of their choice.
2
Decima, here's the reality that you are missing: a very tiny percentage of transgender persons, be they male or female, undergo full transition. It's very costly.
The other reality is that we on the left, who have always been open to knowing and listening to others of divergent cultural norms for whatever their reasons, have known all along that this was not a problem looking for a solution. Transgender individuals are not readily identifiable, and have been using the restrooms of their identified gender for a very long time, unbeknownst to the people who wield or buy into these unbased bathroom terror scenarios.
The other reality is that we on the left, who have always been open to knowing and listening to others of divergent cultural norms for whatever their reasons, have known all along that this was not a problem looking for a solution. Transgender individuals are not readily identifiable, and have been using the restrooms of their identified gender for a very long time, unbeknownst to the people who wield or buy into these unbased bathroom terror scenarios.
We have lots of serious problems in this country, but which bathroom transgender people use is not one of them.
Just do away with urinals and make all bathrooms unisex, with a token family bathroom for the people with small kinds. Most businesses combine the family/handicap access in a separate bathroom.
This is a reminder that the ERA (The Equal Rights Amendment) was introduced in the 1970's and failed to pass until its final 'death sentence' June 30, 1982. In some ways, not much has changed. It's 2016 and people are obsessing about which bathrooms people can use and still hesitating on the rights to gay marriage, even though he Supreme Court has ruled gays have every right to marry (yes, indeed they do!) Women are still paid less than men, for the same job. In 2016...
Sigh*...
Just do away with urinals and make all bathrooms unisex, with a token family bathroom for the people with small kinds. Most businesses combine the family/handicap access in a separate bathroom.
This is a reminder that the ERA (The Equal Rights Amendment) was introduced in the 1970's and failed to pass until its final 'death sentence' June 30, 1982. In some ways, not much has changed. It's 2016 and people are obsessing about which bathrooms people can use and still hesitating on the rights to gay marriage, even though he Supreme Court has ruled gays have every right to marry (yes, indeed they do!) Women are still paid less than men, for the same job. In 2016...
Sigh*...
8
When the ERA was being ratified (it failed, 40 years ago, to be ratified), the opposition to ERA said that it would bring about gay marriage and unisex toilets.
Guess what??? THEY WERE CORRECT.
As soon as lefty liberals took over, what did we get? The end of traditional marriage, in favor of gay marriage. And now -- mandatory unisex toilets or you are a "hater" and will get fired from your job at ESPN.
Guess what??? THEY WERE CORRECT.
As soon as lefty liberals took over, what did we get? The end of traditional marriage, in favor of gay marriage. And now -- mandatory unisex toilets or you are a "hater" and will get fired from your job at ESPN.
1
Love it! As a (Trans)woman, I know for certain that this "issue" only arose so that conservatives could keep their base nice and scared. Ted Cruz has piles on with his deviously smart debate like answer. That man could win any debate on earth, but it doesn't mean he is arguing the morally correct side. He can try to say he is fighting the PC movement, but really he is fighting the morally correct side.
Look, Transgender people are not scary. We are not out to get anyone's unattended children in the bathroom. We are just trying to live out our lives in a world where we have equal rights as others. Some of us (cough Catlynn Jenner) are even hyper conservative crazies. Transgender people are fundamentally just people. I look like a woman, talk like a woman, and live as a woman. I should be allowed to use the woman's bathroom, and this issue should never of had been an issue.
Look, Transgender people are not scary. We are not out to get anyone's unattended children in the bathroom. We are just trying to live out our lives in a world where we have equal rights as others. Some of us (cough Catlynn Jenner) are even hyper conservative crazies. Transgender people are fundamentally just people. I look like a woman, talk like a woman, and live as a woman. I should be allowed to use the woman's bathroom, and this issue should never of had been an issue.
7
Frank Bruni must be totally in love with Trump. He cannot stop writing about him. Frank Bruni was once my favorite columnist. No more. The world does not revolve around Trump, Mr. Bruni. You are only adding more media coverage to this horrible person. And you should be ashamed of yourself.
When someone speaks as much as Donald Trump does, he's bound to be correct once in a while.
Hard to reconcile the sensibleness of his remark on this issue to the one he made recently in Pennsylvania in which he seemed to express approval of the late Joe Paterno.
Hard to reconcile the sensibleness of his remark on this issue to the one he made recently in Pennsylvania in which he seemed to express approval of the late Joe Paterno.
1
First of all I have never understood how North Carolina planned to enforce this new law. Will there be security agents staged at all public facilities and gender identity cards or birth certificates required for using the facilities? Or are TSA style pat downs going to be required. Who will pay for all this?
Is there nothing ever more urgent on Republicans minds than genitalia? They are obsessed with sex, and little else matters it would appear if it doesn't revolve around sex, such as the appointment of a Supreme Court Justice, our crumbling infrastructure, climate change, you know, little things.
I don't know about listening to Trump, Frank, you never know when he's going to contradict himself. He was once a supporter of a woman's right to choose, and now he is against it. He sent congratulations to Elton John and his partner on their marriage, now he's against gay marriage. You never know who he will expediently throw under his bus.
Is there nothing ever more urgent on Republicans minds than genitalia? They are obsessed with sex, and little else matters it would appear if it doesn't revolve around sex, such as the appointment of a Supreme Court Justice, our crumbling infrastructure, climate change, you know, little things.
I don't know about listening to Trump, Frank, you never know when he's going to contradict himself. He was once a supporter of a woman's right to choose, and now he is against it. He sent congratulations to Elton John and his partner on their marriage, now he's against gay marriage. You never know who he will expediently throw under his bus.
4
@Diana, NC won't enforce the part of the bathroom law that most of us are commenting on - the part that requires bathroom use to align with a person's sex rather than gender identification.
They will, however, enforce the other less well known features of the law. They will prevent any locality from issuing laws that are not allowed state wide, such as minimum wages or bathroom use. They will enforce the part which makes it difficult or impossible to sue an employer fro discrimination.
The Sturm und Drang over the ridiculous and apocalyptic worries over transgender people using the correct potty is a mask to hide the the more insidious outrages in the law.
They will, however, enforce the other less well known features of the law. They will prevent any locality from issuing laws that are not allowed state wide, such as minimum wages or bathroom use. They will enforce the part which makes it difficult or impossible to sue an employer fro discrimination.
The Sturm und Drang over the ridiculous and apocalyptic worries over transgender people using the correct potty is a mask to hide the the more insidious outrages in the law.
I am extremely upset with politicians using fear to manipulate us. Sadly, rather than promoting community their fear mongering creates distrust. We need each other to contribute to the common good whether it is paying taxes for roads, education, safe streams and rivers, health care, first responders, etc.,etc. and we need confidence in each other to build our country. We need positives! Too many politicians are using fear to win votes suggesting they will make us safe. Really? Do we think these manipulators and distortors of reality can contribute anything to the common good?
4
Trump is a mountebank, a buffoon and an egomaniac. I wouldn’t vote for him if he promised me a date with a supermodel and front-row seats to Hamilton.
But in my heart I cannot let it go past me that Trump enjoys the support of millions of middle-class Americans who for the past 20 years have been virtually unrepresented in American politics.
So, on the off-chance that I have been wrong about him, I am promising here and now to shut-up about him for six months If-and-when he is elected to give him a fair try at being president.
This offer is only going to be available to him for six months. After that, the gloves are going back on. Fair is fair.
But in my heart I cannot let it go past me that Trump enjoys the support of millions of middle-class Americans who for the past 20 years have been virtually unrepresented in American politics.
So, on the off-chance that I have been wrong about him, I am promising here and now to shut-up about him for six months If-and-when he is elected to give him a fair try at being president.
This offer is only going to be available to him for six months. After that, the gloves are going back on. Fair is fair.
4
If you listen closely enough, Frank, Trump has made commonsensical statements, on Planned Parenthood & dark money. What's cool is when he says something you can basically believe him, feeling that his words didn't come from some talking points memo.
Dave, the problem, besides his xenophobic and hateful rhetoric and bullying ways, is...well, that really is the problem.
people who obsess over people's bathroom habits and the intimate parts of 'little girls' have a real problem.
awhile back there was a catholic priest who ran a 'shelter' for homeless kids in nyc...he used to go to catholic schools to collect 'donated panties'.
well....surprise!surprise!
he was sexually involved with those under his protection.
gotta watch those who seem to have a rather unnatural preoccupation with toilet stalls.
awhile back there was a catholic priest who ran a 'shelter' for homeless kids in nyc...he used to go to catholic schools to collect 'donated panties'.
well....surprise!surprise!
he was sexually involved with those under his protection.
gotta watch those who seem to have a rather unnatural preoccupation with toilet stalls.
5
If you're as old as I, you can remember when, 40 years ago, the far right derailed the Equal Rights Amendment in part by whipping up hysterical fears of unisex bathrooms. What I learned from that fiasco is this: a lot of people are uncomfortable thinking or talking about going to the bathroom. And when people can't bring themselves to think or talk about a subject, it's easy to manipulate them into believing all sorts of crazy things.
13
Martin, people can't bring themselves to call it by it's correct name, a euphemism is necessary. How many bathrooms actually have a bath in it?
It's a lavatory which has sinks and (cover your ears) toilets.
It's a lavatory which has sinks and (cover your ears) toilets.
2
I may be naive but I cannot imagine how such a law would be enforced. Will everyone have to carry a birth certificate in case they want to use a public john? Will there be monitors at every door to check on the "equipment" of those in need of relief? Or, perhaps, spy cameras in the stalls?
This year's campaign has occasionally made me feel that I am trapped in an endless (and badly written) SNL skit. This latest ploy would be funnier if it weren't for the terribly sad fact that a certain number of Americans will be in support of it, and vote accordingly.
This year's campaign has occasionally made me feel that I am trapped in an endless (and badly written) SNL skit. This latest ploy would be funnier if it weren't for the terribly sad fact that a certain number of Americans will be in support of it, and vote accordingly.
7
The issue stinks and is dire need of a flush.
3
I haven't been in women's public bathrooms, but I assume they all have stalls where privacy is assured. Men feeling uncomfortable at urinals can also use stalls. That doesn't mean nothing "improper" can happen -- as apparently occurred when a former US Republican senator was accused of trying to "signal" his interest in "meeting" another man, each in separate stalls. The "invitee" turned out to be an undercover cop -- and the senator wasn't re-elected.
6
Fifty and a hundred years ago it was blacks who were the unclean predators who needed to be kept out of washrooms and away from lunch counters and drinking fountains and away from the helpless white women; and we saw the trees decorated with the slaughtered dead of these hated vermin. Now the bathroom law asserts that trans people are unclean predators also to be reviled and flagged as not of us as Americans. The idea that trans people, surely of Americans those most uncomfortable with their bodies, are a threat to our suddenly sacred privacy is absurd on its face.
For good measure, the law requires that anti-discrimination cases can no longer be brought in state court, leaving only the more complex and expensive Federal Court system. For the trifecta, the law also precludes towns from voting in local increases in minimum wage. This is literally a hate law.
For good measure, the law requires that anti-discrimination cases can no longer be brought in state court, leaving only the more complex and expensive Federal Court system. For the trifecta, the law also precludes towns from voting in local increases in minimum wage. This is literally a hate law.
19
I do not remotely think transgender people are "unclean".
I think they are biological men (or women) and ergo, should use the bathroom intended for biological men or women.
It is truly that simple.
I think they are biological men (or women) and ergo, should use the bathroom intended for biological men or women.
It is truly that simple.
You wonder. Does Ted Cruz know there are stalls with doors in women's bathrooms?
4
What a bunch of dumb clucks these North Carolina folks are. Stupidity beyond the pale.
3
The issue of transgender bathrooms is just another way both parties distract voters from the core issue of our times which is economic inequality. The transgendered just like anybody else need good-paying secure jobs. They can manage their toilet issues on their own without the help of Democrats and despite the Republicans. Both parties do nothing but pander at election time, then go back to business as usual.
2
Restroom signage should be changed to P for penis and V for vagina. Gender identity is meaningless. This is a question about anatomy. I don't care how you identify penises belong, with penises and vaginas belong with vaginas. That way there is no discrimination against anyone.
7
But some transgender persons have had their genitals altered. In NC must you go by your current penis or vagina or the one you had at birth? Still a problem in NC.
The holier than thou North Carolina legislators who pushed for this fiasco will show their ultimate hypocrisy as more and more entertainers boycott their state. Once that pressure becomes too much to bear, they will abandon their sanctimonious stance, making them nothing more than mercenaries. What trumps the Bible? MONEY!!!
9
I would like Senator Cruz, Glenn Beck and the Governor of North Carolina to name 5, just 5, instances in the last 25 years when a transgendered person attacked someone in a public bathroom in all of the United States.
Then I would like those same three deep thinkers to name the number of people who were killed yesterday, just yesterday, by a firearm in all of the United States.
Maybe then they could get their priorities straight? Probably not.
Then I would like those same three deep thinkers to name the number of people who were killed yesterday, just yesterday, by a firearm in all of the United States.
Maybe then they could get their priorities straight? Probably not.
49
Nobody remotely thinks that transgender people will attack them in the bathroom.
What we think is that if ANYONE can come into the ladies room, regardless of biology or appearance, that pretty quickly rapists and peepers will figure that out, and go in despite looking male. If anyone complains, they will simply say "I felt as if I were a FEMALE so I went into the ladies room" -- beard, penis and all.
And if you try to stop them, YOU will get in trouble for "hate crimes".
This has already happened, BTW. A woman was expelled from her health club, for asking that biological men not be admitted to the ladies locker room. SHE WAS THROWN OUT for merely asking.
What we think is that if ANYONE can come into the ladies room, regardless of biology or appearance, that pretty quickly rapists and peepers will figure that out, and go in despite looking male. If anyone complains, they will simply say "I felt as if I were a FEMALE so I went into the ladies room" -- beard, penis and all.
And if you try to stop them, YOU will get in trouble for "hate crimes".
This has already happened, BTW. A woman was expelled from her health club, for asking that biological men not be admitted to the ladies locker room. SHE WAS THROWN OUT for merely asking.
2
Every time I read something on this debate, my mind snaps to a scenario where a young male identifying as a woman is forced to use the men's room in a rest stop or a bar.
It sends shivers down my spine, it scares me so much.
And the lunacy being perpetuated by these gun-totin' he-men on the Right makes me certain what I envision is true.
Let them please come into the women's room where there is a chance they might be safe.
It sends shivers down my spine, it scares me so much.
And the lunacy being perpetuated by these gun-totin' he-men on the Right makes me certain what I envision is true.
Let them please come into the women's room where there is a chance they might be safe.
23
What about a young WOMAN identifying as male -- she looks "male-ish" with masculine clothing and short hair -- but in the men's room, she takes down her trousers and has a vagina & vulva.
The men there quickly realize this is a woman, who is degrading and demeaning them by pretending to be a male. So they beat up or rape her or worse.
I think the takedown here is that MENS ROOMS are not very safe for anyone, and ladies rooms are safer -- TODAY. Because we do not permit men in the ladies room.
If you change that, then the ladies room is unsafe, too.
The men there quickly realize this is a woman, who is degrading and demeaning them by pretending to be a male. So they beat up or rape her or worse.
I think the takedown here is that MENS ROOMS are not very safe for anyone, and ladies rooms are safer -- TODAY. Because we do not permit men in the ladies room.
If you change that, then the ladies room is unsafe, too.
1
I couldn't recommend this more than once, which is a shame. The people who are least safe are not wives and daughters, but the transgender woman forced to use a mens room.
1
The North Carolina law states, "It is the public policy of this State . . . multiple or single occupancy bathrooms or changing facilities according to biological sex shall not be deemed to constitute discrimination" and defines "biological sex" as "The physical condition of being male or female, which is stated on a person's birth certificate." So, apparently in North Carolina, you need a birth certificate to use a public restroom. Now, under state law, it isn't illegal for a man to use a women's restroom in North Carolina nor is it illegal for a woman to use a men's restroom. But, there are so many crazy transgender people wreaking havoc in public restrooms that three needs to be laws to prevent it. You can't make this stuff up.
6
The fact that this is an issue is beyond the scope of human comprehension.
Have we no shame??
What difference does any of it make? Is it significant to the well being of our nation?
First we got into Trump and his johnson, now we are debating where people go to pee.
Excuse me but I must be getting back to the planet earth.
Have we no shame??
What difference does any of it make? Is it significant to the well being of our nation?
First we got into Trump and his johnson, now we are debating where people go to pee.
Excuse me but I must be getting back to the planet earth.
17
I’m guessing it was around 1964, I was in Grand Central Station where they had these gorgeous old-fashioned bathrooms full of marble sinks and toilets, and a guy wearing an expensive-looking business suit and a khaki-colored raincoat starts going around inspecting everybody’s Johnson. I remember thinking afterwards as I washed my hands that I hoped I
hadn't been a disappointment.
hadn't been a disappointment.
3
I know a man who was born female. For the last 30 years he's identified as and transitioned to living his life as a man, with all the equipment a man has. He looks like a man. His voice is like a man's. He has a beard (without taking hormones!). I do not understand why a North Carolina legislator would want this person using the woman's bathroom. Would not the wife or daughter of that legislator be way more upset about seeing my friend use the women's bathroom than a transgender woman who looks and behaves like a woman?
And are there going to be bathroom police? And is every visitor to N. Carolina supposed to bring their birth certificate with them into the state?
There was no problem. Instead of working on bringing back jobs and making The People's lives better, they insist on making these stupid, unnecessary, discriminating laws.
The party of small government? Not a chance.
And are there going to be bathroom police? And is every visitor to N. Carolina supposed to bring their birth certificate with them into the state?
There was no problem. Instead of working on bringing back jobs and making The People's lives better, they insist on making these stupid, unnecessary, discriminating laws.
The party of small government? Not a chance.
9
I can't know your friend there, but she was born a woman, and has XX chromosomes and ever had ovaries, vulva, vagina, uterus, etc. then she is a woman. She was born a woman and she will die a woman.
I know women with very deep voices, and yes, I know women with facial hair (most women are not happy about this and spend a lot to get rid of it!). Do you argue they are not "real women" because they are "not as feminine" as Caitlyn Jenner?
I know women with very deep voices, and yes, I know women with facial hair (most women are not happy about this and spend a lot to get rid of it!). Do you argue they are not "real women" because they are "not as feminine" as Caitlyn Jenner?
1
Although I am far from a Radfem, this is just another example of male sexual privilege wrapped up in unproven 'gender theory', which is why so many men support it.
Men have no skin in this game, as they know it will be women, 50% of the country, who will be affected. Men are just so used to expecting women to accommodate male needs and wants that they are completely unaware that this is, yet again, what is actually going on here.
While there should be tolerance for everyone's sexual orientation, everyone's rights stop when they directly affect the rights of others.
If a man thinks he was born female - and this is really about men who 'feel' they are women, as that is 80% of transgenders - then he should transition to match his 'correct' gender and can then use all women's facilities.
But until that occurs no male should have the right, nor should they expect to have the right, to enter any females-only area without question, which is what these laws will allow.
Because this will not stop at bathrooms, but will (and already has) move into locker and shower rooms, women's prisons, female sports, and Title IX.
It is a slippery slope and once those hard won rights to safety and privacy are gone, it will be difficult, if not impossible, for women to ever get them back.
Men have no skin in this game, as they know it will be women, 50% of the country, who will be affected. Men are just so used to expecting women to accommodate male needs and wants that they are completely unaware that this is, yet again, what is actually going on here.
While there should be tolerance for everyone's sexual orientation, everyone's rights stop when they directly affect the rights of others.
If a man thinks he was born female - and this is really about men who 'feel' they are women, as that is 80% of transgenders - then he should transition to match his 'correct' gender and can then use all women's facilities.
But until that occurs no male should have the right, nor should they expect to have the right, to enter any females-only area without question, which is what these laws will allow.
Because this will not stop at bathrooms, but will (and already has) move into locker and shower rooms, women's prisons, female sports, and Title IX.
It is a slippery slope and once those hard won rights to safety and privacy are gone, it will be difficult, if not impossible, for women to ever get them back.
5
"Although I am far from a Radfem, this is just another example of male sexual privilege wrapped up in unproven 'gender theory', which is why so many men support it."
No, FSMLives!. Perhaps you're not one of those cis R-folk by name (props for knowing about them!), but your constantly voiced sentiment here on the NYT toward trans people generally — and toward trans women categorically — is extremist and illiberal. The heart of its sentiment (with which you've made abundantly clear, ad nauseam) teeters toward an advocacy of a continued, radicalized violence toward trans people. The membrane between radicalism, extremism, and violence is a micro-thin one.
As a cis person, when your extremism of advocating control over trans bodies and trans lives finds itself comfortably on side with populist zealotry, fundamentalist demagoguery, and even the borderline sociopathy of forces like Senator Cruz, the only slope greased with the venom of obstructionism and intolerance is the one slouching toward the wrong side of civil justice history.
Your purity control is unsustainable.
No, FSMLives!. Perhaps you're not one of those cis R-folk by name (props for knowing about them!), but your constantly voiced sentiment here on the NYT toward trans people generally — and toward trans women categorically — is extremist and illiberal. The heart of its sentiment (with which you've made abundantly clear, ad nauseam) teeters toward an advocacy of a continued, radicalized violence toward trans people. The membrane between radicalism, extremism, and violence is a micro-thin one.
As a cis person, when your extremism of advocating control over trans bodies and trans lives finds itself comfortably on side with populist zealotry, fundamentalist demagoguery, and even the borderline sociopathy of forces like Senator Cruz, the only slope greased with the venom of obstructionism and intolerance is the one slouching toward the wrong side of civil justice history.
Your purity control is unsustainable.
well put.
i'm a north carolinian and though i'd never live to see the day
when south carolina would make us look stupid, but it has
now happened.
come to nc everybody... it'a the politicians who are loony,
not the folks living here.
i'm a north carolinian and though i'd never live to see the day
when south carolina would make us look stupid, but it has
now happened.
come to nc everybody... it'a the politicians who are loony,
not the folks living here.
2
Progressives have to be careful here. My guess is that around 99% of women don't want anybody with a Y-chromosome using their bathroom. Let's also assume that's the Republican position on this issue/crisis.
So, how intelligent is it for Progressives to drive women into Republican arms here? Activists have to get a grip and have a little good strategic and tactical vision. Putting men (Y-chromosome people) in alongside women in the bathroom is the wrong battle to commit to. Or, do you prefer to hear women start saying "I have to admit I agree with the Republicans on this issue".
So, how intelligent is it for Progressives to drive women into Republican arms here? Activists have to get a grip and have a little good strategic and tactical vision. Putting men (Y-chromosome people) in alongside women in the bathroom is the wrong battle to commit to. Or, do you prefer to hear women start saying "I have to admit I agree with the Republicans on this issue".
5
My guess is that you need a hobby.
1
North Carolina law specifically forbids people to use public bathrooms that don’t correspond with the gender on their birth certificates. So are people in North Carolina now required to carry copies of their birth certificates with them? That would be the only means of enforcing the law, wouldn't it?
3
Has anyone noticed that Trump also said it's better to leave it to the states? That is practically a guarantee that a large number of those states would immediately implement "bathroom laws", seemingly with Mr. Trump's blessing.
7
Amen. Probably the same 38 states that never legally permitted gay marriage and the 33 states that explicitly had VOTES OF THE PEOPLE to keep and retain traditional marriage ONLY -- but were steam rollered over by left liberals and a corrupt, bribed SCOTUS.
1
If Cruz doesn't want anything bad to happen to his little girl in the women's room, he shouldn't send her in there alone but should take her with him into the men's room where he can watch out for her. This is what caring fathers do all the time, everywhere.
4
"Little girl" is a vague term when a father uses it. My dad called me his "little girl" when I was .... 49!
Trump's little girls are adults -- Ivanka is 36. Cruz's children are younger, but I think old enough to go to the ladies room unattended.
Most parents only escort very small children into the bathroom of the PARENT'S gender until that child is maybe 5 or 6. That is a non-issue with ANY group. None of this is about tiny children under 6.
Trump's little girls are adults -- Ivanka is 36. Cruz's children are younger, but I think old enough to go to the ladies room unattended.
Most parents only escort very small children into the bathroom of the PARENT'S gender until that child is maybe 5 or 6. That is a non-issue with ANY group. None of this is about tiny children under 6.
1
There's only one way to be safe. Security cameras in every public bathroom. Also, take the doors off of stalls so no one can hide in there. Better yet, remove the stalls entirely so that the cameras can have a complete view.
2
I say people who are totally neurotic about public bathrooms (even with stalls) can wear a diaper all day. No problems running into those pervasive nefarious perverts -- except at the water cooler.
5
The real purpose here is that Republicans in the south, at least, have to be able to discriminate against some group to energize their voters who they have for the most part, thrown in the toilet for the past 35 years.
7
There's one other of those "threats to ... children's welfare and future" not mentioned by Bruni nor, frankly, given much, if any, play elsewhere in the NY Times or most media outlets. And that's the question of why is it that serial predators like the Roman clergy and Denny Hastert (not to mention Sandusky, various and sundry teacher types, clerical types beyond the Roman type, media bigwigs not only in Great Britain but ... well, you get the point I hope) become "serial" as opposed to one-off predators.
Well, it's because kids who are being preyed upon, rather than dialing 911 as they would if the house were burning down or dad was suffering a heart attack, instead, cower in the corner in shame, confusion and guilt. And we never ask ourselves whether that fear-filled, shame-filled behavior is genetically engineered into the human psyche or whether it's culturally based.
Now that I've asked the question, isn't the answer pretty obvious? And that means WE, all of us, are failing our kids because of our OWN fears, confusion and shame. We really should grow up and educate our children properly about issues of sexuality, And if we did, fear and shame-based panderings like those of Ted Cruz and so many others would be laughed out of the ... well, America's lavatories.
Well, it's because kids who are being preyed upon, rather than dialing 911 as they would if the house were burning down or dad was suffering a heart attack, instead, cower in the corner in shame, confusion and guilt. And we never ask ourselves whether that fear-filled, shame-filled behavior is genetically engineered into the human psyche or whether it's culturally based.
Now that I've asked the question, isn't the answer pretty obvious? And that means WE, all of us, are failing our kids because of our OWN fears, confusion and shame. We really should grow up and educate our children properly about issues of sexuality, And if we did, fear and shame-based panderings like those of Ted Cruz and so many others would be laughed out of the ... well, America's lavatories.
5
This "bathroom law" is obviously a ploy to distract the voters with religious affiliations from using their minds to note that the GOP has waged war against unions, approved of the export of jobs to China without any help for the displaced workers, denigrating climate change due to human influences, and trying to make women into subservient individuals.
7
How sad this debate is I am a Hillary Clinton supporter and Donald Trump is farthest from my mind and yet I applaud Mr. Trump trying to give dignity to all in a very simple manner.
1
I wish this whole tempest in a tea pot could be flushed away as easily as flipping a handle, but the issue of toilet use has been brought up everytime a Republican bigot has needed to strike home their perversity. Please note the signs used in public as racist innuendo during the 60's and long before. our racial strife.
2
Make all the public bathrooms you use unisex, tomorrow. Cover up the signs and icons with paper and tape. Put potted plants in the urinals. Presto-change-o.
Or, try this: the next time "your" bathroom is full and the "other" one is empty (this happens mostly to women, but sometimes to men) just wish (i.e., identify) yourself to be of the opposite sex and boldly go.
Or, try this: the next time "your" bathroom is full and the "other" one is empty (this happens mostly to women, but sometimes to men) just wish (i.e., identify) yourself to be of the opposite sex and boldly go.
2
The bro-ha-ha over restrooms puzzles me. For years I've used women's restrooms into which mothers brought their sons rather than sending them alone into the men's room. I wonder if the protectors of my modesty realize that they have now criminalized those children?
6
For gods sake, none of this about a TINY CHILDREN with a parent!
It's about ADULT transsexuals violating the rights of all normal people -- 99.7% of us! including gays and lesbians! -- who want to use the bathroom IN PRIVACY.
It's about ADULT transsexuals violating the rights of all normal people -- 99.7% of us! including gays and lesbians! -- who want to use the bathroom IN PRIVACY.
2
What I find ironic about the the suddenly legal and legislative challenges being issued vis à vis transgender access to the locker- and restrooms of their gender identity is not that these laws are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. It is that this is just another ploy to manipulate the evangelical/socially conservative GOP voter base to stay the political course. This type of obviously cynical and manipulative move seems to be rolled out every major election cycle. Fiscal conservatives and their hugely wealthy backers (eg, the Koch bros) rally the base around extremist socially conservative issues thus manipulating that base to vote the party line. So, the fiscal conservatives get supply-side/trickle-down economics and the social conservatives get the with discriminatory laws (eg, abortion rights work abounds, voter suppression, anti-LGBTQ rights) all wrapped up in a not-so-pretty package. An unholy arranged marriage, indeed.
5
Trump's response was exactly right, and it’s what most sane Americans think: let's just let it be the way it is, nobody we know of has been harmed, let it be the way it has been. Good advice.
But:
Who hysterically brought this to the forefront, NOT wanting things to be the way they are? The transgender, or whatever they call it, movement. In which very few people are transgender. It includes the editorial page of the NYT. It includes all kinds of fellow travelers and do-gooders with too much time on their hands. They are the ones who spawned this. And now they are crying, they are moaning, they are whining.
And now, ha ha, some of my very liberal women friends are asking: will I have to be in a bathroom with a guy?
Soon after Justice Kennedy established what the law is for 320 million people and 50 states, maybe the day after, the NYT has a huge editorial, the full page, on now it's time to make things right for transgender people. Yeah, for all of about 0.5% of the population.
Not that transgender people are not people, and citizens. But how much ink will be spilled, that could be spilled on other dumb liberal causes, on something that is not an issue until liberals made it an issue?
And now you hide behind Trump? Now that you brought it up and it exploded in your faces with every bigot making a stand, please, let's just go back to the way it was.
Yeah, good luck. Good luck Frank. You were right there.
Some people ought to get a life.
But:
Who hysterically brought this to the forefront, NOT wanting things to be the way they are? The transgender, or whatever they call it, movement. In which very few people are transgender. It includes the editorial page of the NYT. It includes all kinds of fellow travelers and do-gooders with too much time on their hands. They are the ones who spawned this. And now they are crying, they are moaning, they are whining.
And now, ha ha, some of my very liberal women friends are asking: will I have to be in a bathroom with a guy?
Soon after Justice Kennedy established what the law is for 320 million people and 50 states, maybe the day after, the NYT has a huge editorial, the full page, on now it's time to make things right for transgender people. Yeah, for all of about 0.5% of the population.
Not that transgender people are not people, and citizens. But how much ink will be spilled, that could be spilled on other dumb liberal causes, on something that is not an issue until liberals made it an issue?
And now you hide behind Trump? Now that you brought it up and it exploded in your faces with every bigot making a stand, please, let's just go back to the way it was.
Yeah, good luck. Good luck Frank. You were right there.
Some people ought to get a life.
4
Not 0.5%. It is 0.3% and that is a very optimistic estimate by hard-left liberals and LBGQT activists. If they could have bumped the number higher, I assure you that they would have.
"Let's go back to the way it was" -- ha! who made this an issue? who is fanning the flames of hatred & namecalling? who is pushing for unisex bathrooms?
Nobody was unhappy before, except a tiny fraction of SOME transgenders who don't remotely look like the sex they emulate.
"Let's go back to the way it was" -- ha! who made this an issue? who is fanning the flames of hatred & namecalling? who is pushing for unisex bathrooms?
Nobody was unhappy before, except a tiny fraction of SOME transgenders who don't remotely look like the sex they emulate.
2
It's truly embarrassing living in a state that claims to be moderate. Nikki Haley the Governor of SC, and I might add an immigrant who has faced her own discrimination, said this week that SC does not need a bathroom bill. Thank God for some common sense coming from her.
7
Well said.
As so often happens in our American advertising and marketing culture, a controversial issue is reduced to an extrmeem soundbite to sway popular opinion, and to appeal to the lowest common denominator of sophistication. Mr. Bruni's column attempts to mititgate the toxic hype regarding transgender equality, howver, as we will no doubt read in subsequant comments, relatively well educated people will readily buy into the fear and intolerance. If you live in any metropolitan area of the country, believe me, you have already shared a public restroom with a transperson and weren't aware of the experience. Like gays, lesbians, bisexuals and other minorities, transpeople simply want to go about their lives, make a living, find a safe haven, someone to love and be happy. Please. So, stop this ridiculous panic over NOTHING and grow up. Youre making fools of us worldwide . . . Thanks for the collumn, Frank!
4
"Politicians who promote that are opportunists. Politicians who indulge it are cowards." And worse, much worse, they all appear to be Republicans. I wonder if this political party will ever run out of nonsense to scare their supporters with, and, I wonder if their supporters will ever come to their senses.
2
Dear Frank, there are more relevant and interesting topics to pursue this week than pee pee potty poopoo bathroom drek. Notwithstanding Ben Wiseman's "enraged/engaged" unisex toilet door - it all reminds me of what was wrItten in ladies' stalls in fancy Fifth Avenue and Herald Square emporia on the topmost floors' "Ladies' Rooms" or "Rest Rooms" in the 1950s, when it cost a nickel to open the door and use the porcelain swan. On those unforgettable sidewalls of narrow pee pee chambers was writ:"Poor me, I'm so downhearted! Paid a nickel and only - - - - - - !" In the event you're not familiar with this ancient American rhyme, it refers to paying money (the nickel) to occupy the terlet and then, alas, and a nickel lost, not being able to get down to "bidness".
Bathroom problems are virtually non-existent, as are voting problems.
They are simply another way to further the agenda of right-wing Republicans, many of whom are idiots, bigots, or hicks.
They are simply another way to further the agenda of right-wing Republicans, many of whom are idiots, bigots, or hicks.
5
The only recent, widely known bathroom misbehavior, was by, of all things, another republican, another self righteous paladin of christian family values.
A United States Senator at the time, no less.
That would be Larry "Wide Stance" Craig and his run in with an undercover officer in an airport rest room.
Before that we have G. Harold Carswell whom Nixon attempted to appoint to the Supremes, pleading guilty to battery on an undercover police officer in a Tallahassee rest area bathroom.
A United States Senator at the time, no less.
That would be Larry "Wide Stance" Craig and his run in with an undercover officer in an airport rest room.
Before that we have G. Harold Carswell whom Nixon attempted to appoint to the Supremes, pleading guilty to battery on an undercover police officer in a Tallahassee rest area bathroom.
4
Our country is going down the toilet. Unfortunately, it is no longer just a figure of speech.
6
You are absolutely correct. In fact I would go further:
When men still trapped in fully-intact women's bodies enter a gent's facility they should proudly use a urinal and not slink into a stall.
When men still trapped in fully-intact women's bodies enter a gent's facility they should proudly use a urinal and not slink into a stall.
5
Nobody has addressed the fact that pre-op transsexuals like Ms. Gavin Grimm (in an article a few days ago) -- a teenage transsexual who sued for the right to use the boy's bathroom and lockers -- would be in extreme danger in a large public restroom once the other males there saw quickly that Ms. Grimm had a vagina & vulva and no penis. She might get raped or worse, as they would be horribly offended at her mockery of their true gender.
These bathroom laws are a way of creating mistrust around transgender individuals by equating them with pedophiles and other sex offenders. They deserve to be treated with the same inherent dignity as anyone else.
4
I understand that Alberta birth certificates can be easily forged. Is Ted Cruz really the man he says he is? The world needs to know.
6
I think Bathroom Birther police is a great idea.
They could be just like the Religious Police our buddies the Saudis have.
We could have one cop for every public bathroom in America with exposure of one's genitals required upon entry.
Cost is not important just so long as we know we're doing the work of the Good Lord.
They could be just like the Religious Police our buddies the Saudis have.
We could have one cop for every public bathroom in America with exposure of one's genitals required upon entry.
Cost is not important just so long as we know we're doing the work of the Good Lord.
7
So we need a guard and an X-ray device at every bathroom door? No doubt there will be no shortage of volunteers.
2
This is the election year in which "Size Matters" and allusions to female biology made it into national debate. In which potty breaks during debates were subject to comment. And now, the consternation over the Armageddon of matching biology to bathroom. We sure have come a long way in improving the tenor of national discourse.
Why waste time on the economy, and foreign policy, medical care and Supreme Court Justices, when we can move on from wedding cakes and head straight for the toilet?
What is particularly funny about Cruz's apocalyptic commercial, is that he shows the horror of invaded privacy by filming floor to ceiling stalls. An army could come through that restroom, and people in the stalls would still be have more than a modicum of privacy.
Public restrooms are uncomfortably public. But I have to say, I am a lot more worried about sending a small boy into the men's room, where actual normal looking guys who might be actual normal looking predators might be hanging about, than worrying about a transgender woman in a stall in the ladies room.
Why waste time on the economy, and foreign policy, medical care and Supreme Court Justices, when we can move on from wedding cakes and head straight for the toilet?
What is particularly funny about Cruz's apocalyptic commercial, is that he shows the horror of invaded privacy by filming floor to ceiling stalls. An army could come through that restroom, and people in the stalls would still be have more than a modicum of privacy.
Public restrooms are uncomfortably public. But I have to say, I am a lot more worried about sending a small boy into the men's room, where actual normal looking guys who might be actual normal looking predators might be hanging about, than worrying about a transgender woman in a stall in the ladies room.
8
While, like the author, I found myself somewhat astonishingly in agreement with Mr. Trump, I also blame him for this "solution in search of a problem." Trump has spent months trying to divide us and scare us - telling the part of America that looks like me (white, male, Christian, straight) that we need to fear _____________ and that he has solution to save us from those others. Hardly a surprise, given his unexpected success, that others also reach for those tactics.
3
Why anyone of any undercarriage would want to go in a ladies room is beyond me. The lines are ridiculous. Open the mens' rooms to everyone. The guys pee outside anyway.
5
A stopped clock is right twice a day.
The GOP has an uncanny knack for turning immaterial issues unworthy of debate into issues that, if not confronted and debated, will affect the future of the country.
Of course, the GOP would rather not debate the propriety of former Speaker Dennis Hastert, while he was a wrestling coach at a high school in Illinois, allegedly sitting on a reclining chair with a direct view of the boys' locker room shower stalls, not to mention his alleged abuse of boys. What's worse is that quite a few of them wrote letters expressing support for Mr. Hastert prior to his sentencing, with former GOP whip Tom Delay calling him a man of “great integrity.”
There is no limit to the hypocrisy of some of these people.
Of course, the GOP would rather not debate the propriety of former Speaker Dennis Hastert, while he was a wrestling coach at a high school in Illinois, allegedly sitting on a reclining chair with a direct view of the boys' locker room shower stalls, not to mention his alleged abuse of boys. What's worse is that quite a few of them wrote letters expressing support for Mr. Hastert prior to his sentencing, with former GOP whip Tom Delay calling him a man of “great integrity.”
There is no limit to the hypocrisy of some of these people.
9
The "inconvenient truth" is that Caitlyn (nee Bruce) Jenner, as you note, does not fit the stereotype of the predatory pedophile constipated conservatives like Cruz are peddling. The ones who unfortunately do like Dennis Hastert and many priests are the disgender ones who should be sent to the Ladies Room for the safety of our sons. This really is a "tempest in a toilet" and hopefully it will soon be flushed down the drain where all the sewage of bigotry belongs.
3
If Caitlyn Jenner, misguided Republican that she is, ever end up in the same rest room as Hillary Clinton, Democrat, will that considered "too disgusting"?
I am in favor of a new federal bureaucracy tasked with gender policing American bathrooms (maybe the Non-Trans Security Administration) incorporated into Homeland Security. The NTSA would use those same definitely-not-an-X-ray body scanners that the TSA uses in airports, checking the naughty bits to insure gender conformity when we enter the nation's public toilets.
2
Senator Cruz is unfit to discuss anything to do with daughters and wives. Just look at his daughter pulling away from him when he reached to hug her in a photo-op, and just look at the expression on her face. Psychopathology there?
5
Trump ?? Who ??? Tuned him out after the 'dip the bullets in pig's blood' remark.
Please, NEVER, EVER say anything nice about him... EVER !!
Please, NEVER, EVER say anything nice about him... EVER !!
4
I have not heard of any incidents where girls have been assaulted by transgender females, but recent history leads me to conclude that Senator Cruz's daughters would be safer sharing the ladies room with a transgender female than he or his sons (if he had any) would be while using the same bathroom with fellow Republican Senator Larry Craig or former Speaker of the House Republican Dennis Hastert.
10
Considering that the Donald has already rescinded his declaration of tolerance re: toilets and transsexuals I'm wondering why Mr. Bruni is giving him a thumbs up here. Whatever principles Mr. Trump presumes to introduce are habitually abandoned within 24 hours. Talk about politicians who are opportunists and cowards, Trump is the biggest coward and opportunist of them all. I'm guessing that if Rosie O'Donnell started to walk over in his direction he'd immediately turn tail and sick Corey Lewandowski on her.
55
Trump is not a fan of Hitler or Mussolini. He is actually a fan of Groucho Marx who said, "If you don't like my principles, I have others."
For that matter, Hillary is also a secret follower of Groucho Marx, only she does not say so.
For that matter, Hillary is also a secret follower of Groucho Marx, only she does not say so.
1
Absolutely right. Trump has no moral center. His only center is his own self-centeredness.
I have a transgender friend I have known since 7th grade. She did not become a she until a few years ago after raising her family. She is still with her wife of many decades. Brave they are. When I knew her as a he, I loved him. Now that she is a her, I still love her. She is a wonderful person. Would I care if she went into the same restroom as my daughter? No, I would not. Restrooms have private stalls with doors. Transgender folks are not predators or pedophiles. They are people seeking to feel comfortable in their own skin.
I used to admire Curt Shilling when I lived in Boston in the next town over from him. But that picture he posted was a disgrace. Worse than racism. I was so angry. And I agree with Trump. This is much ado over nothing. Most people would never know anyway. Last time I checked, you did not need a birth certificate to pee. Has something changed? There are so many important issues in this world. This is not one of them. People are just being mean. They need to stop. This is simply a ridiculous argument.
I used to admire Curt Shilling when I lived in Boston in the next town over from him. But that picture he posted was a disgrace. Worse than racism. I was so angry. And I agree with Trump. This is much ado over nothing. Most people would never know anyway. Last time I checked, you did not need a birth certificate to pee. Has something changed? There are so many important issues in this world. This is not one of them. People are just being mean. They need to stop. This is simply a ridiculous argument.
259
@Janet
WHY have you EVER admired Curt Schilling? This wasn’t a one-off for this bigot. Here are just two other bon mots in the last six months:
“ESPN could have gotten rid of (Schilling) at the end of the 2015 baseball season for his tweet equating “Muslim extremists” with the Nazi regime in Germany, but it did not, choosing only to suspend him.”
“The network might have dumped him last month for saying Hillary Clinton, the presumptive Democratic nominee for president, “should be buried under a jail somewhere,” but if it punished him at all, that remains a secret."
"Schilling apologists will say that the former major league pitcher was fired because of political correctness, but they will be wrong. They will say he was only exercising his First Amendment right to freedom of speech, but they will be wrong again.”
And Schilling is tweeting even MORE offensive things now and there will be thousands to back him up...like Ted Cruz and other cretins.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/brennan/2016/04/20/curt-s...
Janet, neither Curt Schilling OR Trump are naturally good people JUST because one had incredible pitching ability and the other inherited a real estate business from his father!
It’s high time we dialed down our obsession with stars in America. It’s just so unbelievably shallow.
WHY have you EVER admired Curt Schilling? This wasn’t a one-off for this bigot. Here are just two other bon mots in the last six months:
“ESPN could have gotten rid of (Schilling) at the end of the 2015 baseball season for his tweet equating “Muslim extremists” with the Nazi regime in Germany, but it did not, choosing only to suspend him.”
“The network might have dumped him last month for saying Hillary Clinton, the presumptive Democratic nominee for president, “should be buried under a jail somewhere,” but if it punished him at all, that remains a secret."
"Schilling apologists will say that the former major league pitcher was fired because of political correctness, but they will be wrong. They will say he was only exercising his First Amendment right to freedom of speech, but they will be wrong again.”
And Schilling is tweeting even MORE offensive things now and there will be thousands to back him up...like Ted Cruz and other cretins.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/brennan/2016/04/20/curt-s...
Janet, neither Curt Schilling OR Trump are naturally good people JUST because one had incredible pitching ability and the other inherited a real estate business from his father!
It’s high time we dialed down our obsession with stars in America. It’s just so unbelievably shallow.
1
There has never been a documented case of a she becoming a he or a he becoming a she. Humans are not among the species that can change sex after birth. Transgender women are men who suffer from gender dysphoria. Transgender folks are just as likely to be predators or pedophiles as non-transgender folks, and men who gender identify as women are about as likely to be sexually attracted to females as men who don't gender identify as women. Research conducted at the University of Minnesota ““suggests that the breakdown of sexualities among transsexual women—men who think of themselves as female--is 38% bisexual, 35% attracted to women, and 27% attracted to men.”
The North Carolina law doesn't require you to have a birth certificate to pee. It requires you to use public bathrooms that corresponds to the sex designation on your birth certificate, but you don't have to carry the birth certificate with you. The state has access to your birth certificate, even if it was issued in another state.
The North Carolina law doesn't require you to have a birth certificate to pee. It requires you to use public bathrooms that corresponds to the sex designation on your birth certificate, but you don't have to carry the birth certificate with you. The state has access to your birth certificate, even if it was issued in another state.
1
Saw the headline when we came in from planting peas and thought you were referring to the 18 C gold toilet some out of retirement 50'ish sort of Italian artist is being paid to install in one of NYC's premier museums. It's not art until you use it. Confederacy of Dunces. We are all insane.
35
Sorry, winchestereast, it's 18 K when referring to the purity of gold, 18 C is the weight of precious stones. They're as different as...well...gender.
No, we're not all insane. Unless we're all Republicans, that is.
No, we're not all insane. Unless we're all Republicans, that is.
3
@winchesterest
This is a working bathroom created by Maurizio Cattelan. The working toilet will be installed in early May just off one of the ramps of the Guggenheim Museum in Manhattan, in a small, humble room where visitors often feel the urge to spend some time alone. The room has tiles, a sink, a mirror and a lock on the door. And now, instead of its standard Kohler toilet, it will have a solid 18-karat-gold working replica of one, a preposterously scatological apotheosis of wealth whose form is completed in its function: You could go into the restroom just to bask in its glow, Mr. Cattelan said, but it becomes an artwork only with someone sitting on it or standing over it, answering nature’s call.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/20/arts/design/duchamp-eat-your-heart-out...
Now THIS is “performance art!” Which hardly makes us “dunces” and ALL insane. I mean the bathroom works! And it will be open to ALL sexes--male, female, transgender, unsure today, etc.
This is a working bathroom created by Maurizio Cattelan. The working toilet will be installed in early May just off one of the ramps of the Guggenheim Museum in Manhattan, in a small, humble room where visitors often feel the urge to spend some time alone. The room has tiles, a sink, a mirror and a lock on the door. And now, instead of its standard Kohler toilet, it will have a solid 18-karat-gold working replica of one, a preposterously scatological apotheosis of wealth whose form is completed in its function: You could go into the restroom just to bask in its glow, Mr. Cattelan said, but it becomes an artwork only with someone sitting on it or standing over it, answering nature’s call.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/20/arts/design/duchamp-eat-your-heart-out...
Now THIS is “performance art!” Which hardly makes us “dunces” and ALL insane. I mean the bathroom works! And it will be open to ALL sexes--male, female, transgender, unsure today, etc.
1
A ridiculous bathroom law leads to ridiculous logic: its enforcement by someone standing at the entrance demanding "show me your papers". Except that it wouldn't be papers.
115
Reminds me of the Olympics where the East German women were all getting gyn exams before being allowed to compete.
3
The North Carolina bathroom law doesn’t require anyone to show their papers. It enables the state to obtain indictments and convictions simply by producing a copy of the accused’s birth certificate. You wouldn’t have to produce the birth certificate yourself. The state has access to your birth certificate. However, prosecutions are extremely rare. When police are called to enforce public restroom laws, they normally just order offenders out of the wrong restroom and threatened them with future arrest if they persist in using bathroom that don’t correspond to their sex. Laws segregating public restrooms by sex have been enforced for generations with little problem.
1
Those who tremble in fear about the potential for non-existent bathroom crimes have a big tendency to totally ignore the stuff that actually does happen.
http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/crime/former-mid-missouri-pastor-ple...
Go ahead. Google the statistics. News items like this are a dime a dozen, but somehow there is no uproar. Nope. The uproar is all about what the religious right thinks people who are different than they are might do instead of being concerned about the reality of what is actually occurring within their own ranks on a regular basis. And meanwhile, back in Chicago, Tom DeLay has come to Denny Hastert's defense because Delay says Hastert has a good heart.
http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/crime/former-mid-missouri-pastor-ple...
Go ahead. Google the statistics. News items like this are a dime a dozen, but somehow there is no uproar. Nope. The uproar is all about what the religious right thinks people who are different than they are might do instead of being concerned about the reality of what is actually occurring within their own ranks on a regular basis. And meanwhile, back in Chicago, Tom DeLay has come to Denny Hastert's defense because Delay says Hastert has a good heart.
172
Don't most public bathroom facilities in the US now include a unisex bathroom "Not just for the handicapped" ?
The bathroom police were from Charlotte - this was a liberal attempt to force this upon not just govt and schools but also private businesses, who would have been subject to the scrutiny of the bathroom inspector from Charlotte.
1
The article you linked to refutes your assertion that "other stuff" is ignored. It's about a person convicted of have sex with underage girls. It doesn't say the crime was ignored.
I was so pleased to see how few comments there were on this column after several hours that I thought a lot before saying anything. My take: Frank Bruni has gotten it so right that even folks who thought they liked the NC law have had to reconsider, and those of us who liked it did not have anything to add.
134
There are so few comments because unless you are one of the privileged few who have little green check marks by your name you are part of the hoi polloi who must wait approximately 18 hours or so, till Sunday morning, for comments to post regarding Saturday afternoon op Ed pieces by Dowd, Douthat, Bruni et al., even if you post at 3ish on Saturday afternoon, as I did today.
The check mark people are hooked up with the Times through Facebook, a major source of ad revenue for the paper. If you don't want to be on the Facebook grid you're a second class citizen as far as comments go.
Now my earlier comment and this comment will probably be censored by the thin skinned comments editors on duty Sunday for daring to point this practice out.
The former Public Editor, Margaret Sullivan, wrote a fairly scathing article on this practice of the Times in mid November of last year and suggesting this comments practice be eliminated as she did in her final piece in March.
Nothing has changed.
The check mark people are hooked up with the Times through Facebook, a major source of ad revenue for the paper. If you don't want to be on the Facebook grid you're a second class citizen as far as comments go.
Now my earlier comment and this comment will probably be censored by the thin skinned comments editors on duty Sunday for daring to point this practice out.
The former Public Editor, Margaret Sullivan, wrote a fairly scathing article on this practice of the Times in mid November of last year and suggesting this comments practice be eliminated as she did in her final piece in March.
Nothing has changed.
4
You are SO wrong, carol goldstein. I am not only supportive of NC and other states with common sense laws, but I am also working for such a law in my own state -- which is not in the South. Hopefully these common sense laws will be in most states by next year.
Also what winthropo below says is correct: the NYT not only censors and redacts comments from "people they do not agree with" (i.e., all conservatives) but they only let the precious green checked comments go up first and early. Since they only give green checks to "approved lefty liberals" or "RINOs", you won't ever see a conservative or even mainstream post in the first dozens that appear.
Winthropo is also correct that the cozy relationship with Facebook is not just political and PC but involved MONEY from ADS.
Also what winthropo below says is correct: the NYT not only censors and redacts comments from "people they do not agree with" (i.e., all conservatives) but they only let the precious green checked comments go up first and early. Since they only give green checks to "approved lefty liberals" or "RINOs", you won't ever see a conservative or even mainstream post in the first dozens that appear.
Winthropo is also correct that the cozy relationship with Facebook is not just political and PC but involved MONEY from ADS.
1
winthropo, if you read here often enough, you'd already know that the Times is working on a new comment format, and that some of your concerns are being taken under consideration.
There is an underlying assumption made by those on the Right passing and supporting the new wave of bathroom laws that transgender people are "perverts" capable of almost any vile act, most likely because they are possessed by Satan or some such nonsense. The Ted Cruz ads do a pretty good job of exploiting that belief.
On the other hand, the really dangerous sexual predators are often highly trusted individuals like priests and coaches. Unlike transgender people, who are making a difficult choice to be true to their gender identity, predators are adept at repressing sexual feelings with disastrous consequences.
It is all too easy to fear those with whom you have little or no contact or experience. And that fear can be easily exploited by truly evil characters.
On the other hand, the really dangerous sexual predators are often highly trusted individuals like priests and coaches. Unlike transgender people, who are making a difficult choice to be true to their gender identity, predators are adept at repressing sexual feelings with disastrous consequences.
It is all too easy to fear those with whom you have little or no contact or experience. And that fear can be easily exploited by truly evil characters.
329
It's not the transgender who are the threat. It's the straight sexual predators who will take advantage of the law. That's the unintended consequence.
2
What I find frustrating is the fact that a person like Ted Cruz can make up a lie and many people will believe it without question. Imho, when it comes to the Republican party, especially Tea Party types, willful ignorance is a membership requirement.
2
If this was all about nothing why did the City of Charlotte pass an ordinance mandating allowing anyone into a bathroom based on how they feel about their personal sexual identity?
1
So far we have not heard the two sides of the argument, and this commentary hasn't changed that. What we are getting is one side's emotion. The writer favors one groups' desire to be comfortable over another groups'desire. It's just that simple.
32
Sometimes there's only one side of an argument that's actually worth listening to. The side that favors hatred and discrimination has absolutely nothing to say, regardless of the feeble excuses that are used to paper over their point of view.
145
Why do you want to look in my pants when I'm using the bathroom?
13
So, if there is a legitimate "other side" to this argument, why can't you articulate it, if "it's just that simple"? In the abstract, there is always the approach that the detestable Sen. Ooze has taken, but in the real world of real people in everyday life, there simply isn't a legitimate counter-argument to Mr. Bruni's point.
20
From 1997 until 2002 men and women managed to amicably use the same toilets in "Ally McBeal" law firm Cage & Fish, and frankly I think fans and other audience members nationwide applauded the rationale as well as the dramatic, comedic but usually mundane and ordinary consequences.
The faux outrage is completely targeted marketing to an American fringe group who have trouble dealing with a changing world, like a Black in the White House or a woman in the White House.
Cruz is a mind who finds it completely acceptable, even admirable, to talk about carpet bombing entire towns and cities but is outraged by allowing what amounts to unisex toilet facilities.
Even the "Ally McBeal" writers couldn't have imagined that script, and they wrote a lot of very good material.
The faux outrage is completely targeted marketing to an American fringe group who have trouble dealing with a changing world, like a Black in the White House or a woman in the White House.
Cruz is a mind who finds it completely acceptable, even admirable, to talk about carpet bombing entire towns and cities but is outraged by allowing what amounts to unisex toilet facilities.
Even the "Ally McBeal" writers couldn't have imagined that script, and they wrote a lot of very good material.
251
I deplore the N.C. bathroom bill, but...Ally McBeal was a TV show! Speaking as a woman of a certain age, I disliked the idea of sharing a bathroom with men. Too old to change, I guess.
1
The frictional characters in "Ally McBeal" shared bathrooms, but the actors and actress who portrayed them used separate bathrooms and dressing rooms. They aren't really using the urinals and toilets during scenes shot in the unisex bathrooms; they are pretending to urinate or defecate while conversing with others.
1
Miriam: Chances you have already shared a public washroom with a transgendered female (male to female) who has had hormone treatments, dresses like a female and for all intents and purposes is a female. So why get upset now just because some bigoted NC politicians have decided to make an issue of it. When I go to public washrooms, I spend no time worrying about who is in the stall next to me and I hope you can do the same.
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'Grown adult men, strangers, should not be alone in a bathroom with little girls.”'
Someone should tell Mr. Cruz that "little girls" should never be alone in a public restroom and that has nothing to do with transgender folks.
The point about trans people NOT using the bathroom they identify with is an excellent one. I have a trans cousin (female to male). He looks in every way like a male. In fact, if he did not tell someone he was trans, no one would know - takes hormones and looks eerily like my uncle who is his grandfather. If he walked into a girls/women's restroom (birth gender), he likely would be arrested as a man going into a women's bathroom. THAT's what' crazy.
Someone should tell Mr. Cruz that "little girls" should never be alone in a public restroom and that has nothing to do with transgender folks.
The point about trans people NOT using the bathroom they identify with is an excellent one. I have a trans cousin (female to male). He looks in every way like a male. In fact, if he did not tell someone he was trans, no one would know - takes hormones and looks eerily like my uncle who is his grandfather. If he walked into a girls/women's restroom (birth gender), he likely would be arrested as a man going into a women's bathroom. THAT's what' crazy.
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"Someone should tell Mr. Cruz that "little girls" should never be alone in a public restroom and that has nothing to do with transgender folks"
I was going to write the same thing, but decided to read the comments first. That was exactly what I thought after reading Cruz's statement. Suddenly helicopter parenting stops at the public restroom door?
I was going to write the same thing, but decided to read the comments first. That was exactly what I thought after reading Cruz's statement. Suddenly helicopter parenting stops at the public restroom door?
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Anne-Marie Hislop said: "Someone should tell Mr. Cruz that 'little girls' should never be alone in a public restroom and that has nothing to do with transgender folks."
While I agree with your general point about transgender folks, I strenuously object to the idea that little girls can't go to a public restroom alone. Little girls can do all sorts of things alone. I'm so glad I came of age before hypervigilance parenting became obligatory.
While I agree with your general point about transgender folks, I strenuously object to the idea that little girls can't go to a public restroom alone. Little girls can do all sorts of things alone. I'm so glad I came of age before hypervigilance parenting became obligatory.
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Your cousin LOOKS like a man. She is not a man. She will never be a man in any way. Cosmetics and clothing do not make someone into a man.
Your cousin was born a woman, and will die a woman. Her DNA is XX and she has (or had at one time) a vagina, a vulva, ovaries, uterus and estrogen hormones in her blood. Because SHE IS A WOMAN.
You are being polite because this is your cousin, and you are a lefty liberal hobbled by "political correctness". My guess is that even small children recognize ASAP that your cousin is a woman dressed like a man.
Your cousin was born a woman, and will die a woman. Her DNA is XX and she has (or had at one time) a vagina, a vulva, ovaries, uterus and estrogen hormones in her blood. Because SHE IS A WOMAN.
You are being polite because this is your cousin, and you are a lefty liberal hobbled by "political correctness". My guess is that even small children recognize ASAP that your cousin is a woman dressed like a man.
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While yes, transgender people have a problem with what bathroom to use that needs to be addressed, there are legitimate issues to be addressed.
There are two issues that leap out. The first is obvious. How do we expect the same men who can't let women walk down the street in peace to let them use the bathroom in peace? Why must half the population lose that right to accomodate less than 1%? We do not change all our bathrooms for the disabled who are a larger percentage of the population. The other is how do we define transgender. If it is how one identifies, then how are we to know they are actually transgender? Because they wear a dress? Why is wearing a dress a marker of femininity? Many women go their whole lives NOT wearing a dress if they can help it. Plenty of women don't wear nail polish, or make up etc. So are they not female? To define femininity by clothing is inherently regressive. It makes being female more of a minstrel show. It assumes all women naturally fit this bill too. So it sends a dangerous message to women. Nothing exemplifies this more than Caitlyn Jenner's debutante photo. As Bruce Jenner, Jenner was the symbol of athleticism. Everyone saw Jenner's picture on the Wheaties box in action running. But when Jenner became a woman? Was Jenner running, in action? No. Jenner was prone, lying as if ready to be deflowered. In white no less, the antithesis of the in control, champion athlete. Because how could that be a woman?
There are two issues that leap out. The first is obvious. How do we expect the same men who can't let women walk down the street in peace to let them use the bathroom in peace? Why must half the population lose that right to accomodate less than 1%? We do not change all our bathrooms for the disabled who are a larger percentage of the population. The other is how do we define transgender. If it is how one identifies, then how are we to know they are actually transgender? Because they wear a dress? Why is wearing a dress a marker of femininity? Many women go their whole lives NOT wearing a dress if they can help it. Plenty of women don't wear nail polish, or make up etc. So are they not female? To define femininity by clothing is inherently regressive. It makes being female more of a minstrel show. It assumes all women naturally fit this bill too. So it sends a dangerous message to women. Nothing exemplifies this more than Caitlyn Jenner's debutante photo. As Bruce Jenner, Jenner was the symbol of athleticism. Everyone saw Jenner's picture on the Wheaties box in action running. But when Jenner became a woman? Was Jenner running, in action? No. Jenner was prone, lying as if ready to be deflowered. In white no less, the antithesis of the in control, champion athlete. Because how could that be a woman?
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@NSH: You're twisting yourself in knots trying to defend an argument based on ignorance and bigotry. Let's cut to the chase: if you're really worried that some member of the opposite gender is going to be peeking at you when you go pee-pee, simply walk into the stall of your choice and close the door behind you. Case (and toilet) closed.
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You may need psychiatric help.
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I think the issues you raise are fairly easily addressed:
1) "How do we expect the same men who can't let women walk down the street in peace to let them use the bathroom in peace?"
Because these are NOT the same men. As a woman, I don't recall ever being catcalled or harassed in the street by a transgender woman. Is this a thing?
And if you're implying that these catcalling cisgender men are going to begin lining the ladies' restrooms and falsely claim to identify as female so they can sit around harassing women, that would STILL BE ILLEGAL.
2) "We do not change all our bathrooms for the disabled who are a larger percentage of the population."
Actually, we do change them. Public establishments often have handicapped stalls that are wheelchair accessible. Nothing needs to change to accommodate transgender people. Most public restrooms are single stall or have stall doors that allow for sufficient privacy.
3) "The other is how do we define transgender."
You see, that's the beauty of it. WE don't. The individual person identifies with a gender, just as you (presumably) identify with a gender. They don't have to wear dresses or makeup, for example, but many transgender women do, perhaps because it allows them to feel more female in a biologically male body. That's all.
The reality is, transgender individuals have been using the bathroom of their choice for a long time now, and you probably just didn't notice. It was fine. It is fine.
1) "How do we expect the same men who can't let women walk down the street in peace to let them use the bathroom in peace?"
Because these are NOT the same men. As a woman, I don't recall ever being catcalled or harassed in the street by a transgender woman. Is this a thing?
And if you're implying that these catcalling cisgender men are going to begin lining the ladies' restrooms and falsely claim to identify as female so they can sit around harassing women, that would STILL BE ILLEGAL.
2) "We do not change all our bathrooms for the disabled who are a larger percentage of the population."
Actually, we do change them. Public establishments often have handicapped stalls that are wheelchair accessible. Nothing needs to change to accommodate transgender people. Most public restrooms are single stall or have stall doors that allow for sufficient privacy.
3) "The other is how do we define transgender."
You see, that's the beauty of it. WE don't. The individual person identifies with a gender, just as you (presumably) identify with a gender. They don't have to wear dresses or makeup, for example, but many transgender women do, perhaps because it allows them to feel more female in a biologically male body. That's all.
The reality is, transgender individuals have been using the bathroom of their choice for a long time now, and you probably just didn't notice. It was fine. It is fine.
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Surely, with all that's in dire need of addressing in this country, this GOP hysteria about the potential of child molestation in ladies' rooms shows how little lawmakers really care about the true needs of their states.
For a party that believes in limited government, they sure are obsessed with people's body parts and bodily functions. Do they plan to hire a battalion of birth certificate checkers at the entrance to ladies' rooms (note: the opposite situation, a female identifying as male entering a men's room never comes up)? And just how would that checker know whom to interrogate or would every woman approaching the door be asked to whip out her birth certificate?
The right to pee is fast becoming just as challenged as the right to vote.
What a sick, asinine country we have become.
For a party that believes in limited government, they sure are obsessed with people's body parts and bodily functions. Do they plan to hire a battalion of birth certificate checkers at the entrance to ladies' rooms (note: the opposite situation, a female identifying as male entering a men's room never comes up)? And just how would that checker know whom to interrogate or would every woman approaching the door be asked to whip out her birth certificate?
The right to pee is fast becoming just as challenged as the right to vote.
What a sick, asinine country we have become.
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The sick and asinine is about right, your words not mine, but they pertain to the Democrats, or better said liberals, who are hyperventilating about doing good for a tiny slice of the population that nobody thought had an issue until people like you brought it up.
You brought up the right to pee.
You brought up the right to pee.
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No, no tests or checkers. Just a sign perhaps letting transgender know they must use the bathroom of their true birth gender/DNA.
People who do not, would be politely escorted out if detected.
I assume some would manage to "pass" of course, but the majority of MTF transgenders do not remotely look like women. Like Caitlyn Jenner -- in real life, without Annie Leibowitz's talent or Photoshop or soft lighting and heavy makeup -- who looks nothing like a real woman, and only like a man in drag.
People who do not, would be politely escorted out if detected.
I assume some would manage to "pass" of course, but the majority of MTF transgenders do not remotely look like women. Like Caitlyn Jenner -- in real life, without Annie Leibowitz's talent or Photoshop or soft lighting and heavy makeup -- who looks nothing like a real woman, and only like a man in drag.
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@John Xavier III: I had a friend for 15 years who revealed to me at one point that he was transgender. A tall, hefty man on the outside, who believed inside he was female. Medical tests showed low testosterone levels. Can't be rectified without serious risk of cancer, as it turns out. He was in the closet. His family was extremely conservative, as was he. I ended our friendship due to his right wing extremism, his racism, and his unwillingness to be open-minded, not because of his sexual orientation. I'm a Democrat and progressive. He couldn't have a discussion with me, even when I tried to intelligently and gently talk issues with him. Too much rageful instransigence. Tell me: what exactly is sick and asinine?
"Ted Cruz predictably disagreed, pulling the right to pee into the G.O.P. presidential race. “I’m the father of two little girls,” he said. “Here is basic common sense: Grown adult men, strangers, should not be alone in a bathroom with little girls.”"
This morning I took my wife to a movie. Afterward, I used the restroom in the theater. There was a father in the Men's room with his daughter, who looked about 5. They were washing their hands. She looked delighted with her adventure. So did he.
It didn't hurt me a bit. Nobody hurt her either. Everybody was smiling.
Then I get home, and read this with Sen Cruz going nuts over something like that. He probably did his eyebrow thing and looked really Come to Jesus when he said it too. Moron.
This morning I took my wife to a movie. Afterward, I used the restroom in the theater. There was a father in the Men's room with his daughter, who looked about 5. They were washing their hands. She looked delighted with her adventure. So did he.
It didn't hurt me a bit. Nobody hurt her either. Everybody was smiling.
Then I get home, and read this with Sen Cruz going nuts over something like that. He probably did his eyebrow thing and looked really Come to Jesus when he said it too. Moron.
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Funny: Jesus said nothing about transgendered individuals. Never even referred to them as sinners. But I'm guessing that if He ever met one He'd have been far more accepting of their behavior than He was with the Pharisees, the hypocrites and the moneylenders.
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I like your last word. I note that ad hominem, and calling people names, is now de rigueur at the NYT. Ok, I can do that with the best of them, trust me. Good to know.
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Trump is right, but then even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Cruz, ironically, is so far to the right that he's never right.
This bathroom ballyhoo is born of desperation among conservatives. Ever since they realized that a Democratic presidency is all but certain they've been doubling down on homophobic rants to the rhythm of bibles being thumped.
North Carolina was looking for something to energize faithful conservatives. They were anticipating a Kim Davis moment, hoping to rally the devoutly bigoted in a spasm of spontaneous outrage, barring the bathroom doors to protect the children.
It never materialized. They may be so clueless that they're surprised by the backlash from businesses and entertainers who backed out of deals and cancelled concerts. That was an unpleasant reality check.
Conservatism and reality have never gotten along well. The reality of gay people has long confused them, so you can imagine how transgender folks are befuddling them.
They consult their bibles to find out what to do, but doggone it if God himself didn't think to address this eventuality. There's mention of sitting on thrones, but that doesn't quite cover it. There's talk of gentiles but not much about genitalia.
And yet the answer to what they should do is right under their noses. They should take a page from the Republicans in Congress, and do nothing.
This bathroom ballyhoo is born of desperation among conservatives. Ever since they realized that a Democratic presidency is all but certain they've been doubling down on homophobic rants to the rhythm of bibles being thumped.
North Carolina was looking for something to energize faithful conservatives. They were anticipating a Kim Davis moment, hoping to rally the devoutly bigoted in a spasm of spontaneous outrage, barring the bathroom doors to protect the children.
It never materialized. They may be so clueless that they're surprised by the backlash from businesses and entertainers who backed out of deals and cancelled concerts. That was an unpleasant reality check.
Conservatism and reality have never gotten along well. The reality of gay people has long confused them, so you can imagine how transgender folks are befuddling them.
They consult their bibles to find out what to do, but doggone it if God himself didn't think to address this eventuality. There's mention of sitting on thrones, but that doesn't quite cover it. There's talk of gentiles but not much about genitalia.
And yet the answer to what they should do is right under their noses. They should take a page from the Republicans in Congress, and do nothing.
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It's not "conservatism"--it's its very antonym: radical right-wing (like fascists, etc.).
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Unfortunately, Sen. Rafael is pandering on the national level with the same low-info techniques used by opponents to Houston's ' bathroom law '.
We're really more interested in the NYTimes finding out if Cruz's father is the guy in the 1963 photo with Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article73449297.html
We're really more interested in the NYTimes finding out if Cruz's father is the guy in the 1963 photo with Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article73449297.html
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Yes, I'd like to know that also. The Kennedy assassination has always need some hardcore investigative journalism.
Agreed! That has the potential to become the story of the century if true. That would out shock every storyline ever written for House of Cards.
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