Most of don't have any major baggage to hide, but mental illness, criminal records, contagious conditions, children, marital situation must be disclosed ASAP... Having asthma, diabetes or atrial fibrillation is not the same thing as being bipolar, schizophrenic or suffering from major depression!
6
"...the letter grade should reflect the value of the work done, compared with that of the class or some other familiar standard."
Perhaps we need a "The Ethicist" column about grade inflation. After all, if students' grades are compared to those of the rest of the class, how do we explain rampant grade inflation, where nearly half of all undergraduate grades at A's?
Perhaps we need a "The Ethicist" column about grade inflation. After all, if students' grades are compared to those of the rest of the class, how do we explain rampant grade inflation, where nearly half of all undergraduate grades at A's?
3
"how do we explain rampant grade inflation, where nearly half of all undergraduate grades at A's? "
.....and how do we respond to the other half who didn't get As when they demand a detailed accounting of our failure to grant them As?
.....and how do we respond to the other half who didn't get As when they demand a detailed accounting of our failure to grant them As?
4
Re: the mental illness issue: All the writer did was ask when such history should be revealed. This person didn't ask for comments about how they relates to their illness, what labels they use, etc. This person has had this condition for most of their life and has had a long-term romantic relationship, so I'd say he/she's an expert.
First, I encourage him/her to have a therapist again, if they've stopped for awhile, to help with this. Secondly, I'd ask him/her to consider truthfully the qualities that a person would need to have to be in such a relationship. This will help in the first few dates to sift through candidates. Then, frankly, I'd wait until after two sexual experiences to inform this person. This information should include how long ago the last episode was, what self-care regime is in place, and an honest discussion of what the person can expect in the future, what they should be willing to accept.
At this time in a relationship, which is still fairly new, I would expect the new candidate to be able to make the decision that best suits them. Responsible adults can do this.
First, I encourage him/her to have a therapist again, if they've stopped for awhile, to help with this. Secondly, I'd ask him/her to consider truthfully the qualities that a person would need to have to be in such a relationship. This will help in the first few dates to sift through candidates. Then, frankly, I'd wait until after two sexual experiences to inform this person. This information should include how long ago the last episode was, what self-care regime is in place, and an honest discussion of what the person can expect in the future, what they should be willing to accept.
At this time in a relationship, which is still fairly new, I would expect the new candidate to be able to make the decision that best suits them. Responsible adults can do this.
1
Regarding mental illness, I was in a relationship for 3+ years with a man who had a mental illness. Initially, he alluded to an episode in his past that he had attributed to a change in medication. It was not until we'd been dating for almost a year that I understood that the episode had been less than 5 years prior to our first date. During that first year he presented as fairly stable and responsible in managing his illness. Over time, I began to see issues. By year 2, he was stopping his medication at times, and had 2 breakdowns and a hospitalization. By the 3rd year, there were 4 major episodes, including 2 while traveling. It became clear to me that he had overestimated/overrepresented his stability, and while I loved him deeply (still do), I was not prepared for a lifetime of this level of chaos.
I also have an illness (physical), that I feel obligated to reveal to potential partners. My rule is generally the 3rd date, and always before there is sexual intimacy as this marks a deepening of the sharing. When I share about my illness, I am very thorough about my history, what it means, how I am managing it, and ways it could impact a partner.
It's important to disclose major life issues early enough that someone who might not want to take them is not too emotionally invested to walk away. It's also important to disclose what those issues mean, and your history with them. What may seem like healthy functioning to you might be beyond someone else's limits.
I also have an illness (physical), that I feel obligated to reveal to potential partners. My rule is generally the 3rd date, and always before there is sexual intimacy as this marks a deepening of the sharing. When I share about my illness, I am very thorough about my history, what it means, how I am managing it, and ways it could impact a partner.
It's important to disclose major life issues early enough that someone who might not want to take them is not too emotionally invested to walk away. It's also important to disclose what those issues mean, and your history with them. What may seem like healthy functioning to you might be beyond someone else's limits.
12
The writer who questions whether he should tell his half sister that he believes their father was gay or bisexual then asks the question, "what should I do"? He should recommend that the gay or potentially gay individuals work at the N.Y. Times, where they will feel right at home.
1
The comments regarding mental illness are as bizarre as they are varied. The one common thread appears to be a shared assumption that “mental illness” exists as a steady state in persons who supposedly suffer from it. In reality, people experience a wide range of human emotions arising in many different situations. Diagnoses of “mental illness” are highly subjective. They are not determined through chemical testing. Rather, diagnoses depend upon symptoms often reported by third parties. As treatment progresses, symptoms become disassociated with the circumstances in which they arose, and the diagnosis takes on a hearsay life of its own, stigmatizing the person now labeled as “mentally ill.” And then, pharmaceuticals prescribed enhance the symptoms, causing the diagnosis to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Diagnoses of mental illness are supported by ever expanding definitions set forth in the ongoing revisions of the DSM, which then support the sales of pharmaceuticals designed to mask symptoms and not to actually cure an illness for which no chemical test exists in the first place. Just maybe, the supposedly ill person is as normal as anyone else, and he or she has suffered emotional or other disruptions best addressed by the passage of time supported by caring, loving family and friends. While every one of us has unhappy experiences in our background, in what world is it socially appropriate to make them a part of the first impression of a first date?
8
"Families don't have to agree about everything -- fortunately." Really? Guess I better have a long talk --or try to -- with my siblings, who believe even now, as we all slide into middle-age, that we must move in lock-step on the large and many of the small issues. I moved to the West Coast 30 years ago and, for not agreeing while still in my 20s that everyone in the family must live within driving distance of each other, have been treated horribly, cut out of the loop, ignored and essentially told to jump. My siblings choose not to believe that planes run in both directions; it's my duty to go back to see them, they will not come this way. For 30 years. Amazing.
6
If your potential partner has or had issues then they should tell. When you find out, you found that you were living with a stranger.
2
With respect to students who don't learn from their mistakes: I include an explanation on my course syllabus that students who make the same mistake after having been corrected will be penalized for having done so. It doesn't always prevent repetition of the mistake, but at least I feel that penalizing student is fair because I have given warning, which, of course, many students don't get because they don't bother to read the syllabus.
8
First dates are like job interviews. Each party is putting their toe in the water.
Whether to disclose something on the second date, or the third, forth, fifth, etc. is a really difficult question. I can only say that the longer the revelation is put off, as intimacy develops, it is going to create a more damaging disruption.
Part of this question is how important the issue will be to the other person, given that person's values and prejudices. Some people can accept and have the skills to deal with a history of mental illness. Others will run out the nearest door in a cold sweat—and better to get that unpleasant consequence over early.
The same goes for previous marriages and divorces, children from other relationships, ambiguous-gender relationships, being a victim of a crime such as child abuse, bankruptcies, felony convictions, and any manner of things that are less than delightful to contemplate.
-- Jim
Whether to disclose something on the second date, or the third, forth, fifth, etc. is a really difficult question. I can only say that the longer the revelation is put off, as intimacy develops, it is going to create a more damaging disruption.
Part of this question is how important the issue will be to the other person, given that person's values and prejudices. Some people can accept and have the skills to deal with a history of mental illness. Others will run out the nearest door in a cold sweat—and better to get that unpleasant consequence over early.
The same goes for previous marriages and divorces, children from other relationships, ambiguous-gender relationships, being a victim of a crime such as child abuse, bankruptcies, felony convictions, and any manner of things that are less than delightful to contemplate.
-- Jim
10
Grandma taught us wisdom some which we embody for life. One of the most rewarding is: "Lies have short legs and no place to hide". Be honest about what ails you - not necessarily blurting it out initially, but when you are sure the other person can, will, and/or wants to accept all of you. The house of solid relationships are built on strong, truthful, trusting foundations, come hell or high water. Hope you find it.
7
The genetics explained in the answer is not correct. Girls get one X from the father and one from the mother, so a daughter's son has equal probability of getting an X chromosome from his maternal grandfather as his maternal grandmother.
4
Traits passed down on chromosomes are not expressed equally; some are indeed sex-linked. You might google the matter, or get a textbook on biology for the discussion.
1
Sorry, c. I misread your comment and replied inaptly....
Personally, I think that honesty is the best policy, whether one is revealing a propensity toward clinical depression, whether or not one is gay, straight or bisexual, or one is a Bernie Sanders fan. To hide it means that one is ashamed of it, and there is nothing to be ashamed of. One doesn't have to waive it like a banner, but it would just save a lot of time if people just fessed up. After all, being honest about oneself relieves one of accusations of hypocrisy, humanizes us, and who knows? The other person may also suffer from clinical depression, is gay or straight or bisexual, or is a Bernie Sanders fan. And if not, and if it's a deal-breaker, one has found out early before one's heart is broken by the belated revelation.
I told someone—more than once, actually—that unwinding my entire biography would take longer than my remaining life expectancy. I'm 60.
2
Think of your mental illness as just another piece of baggage like ex-spouses, kids, bankruptcy, health problems, or annoying habits.
The point is not the reveal. The point is to find someone who has the capacity and willingness to be a good partner for you and your piece of baggage, just as someone might have to be able to deal with someone else's kids or debts.
Someone who walks away because of your mental illness doesn't make you lesser, it only means they are not equipped to be your partner. Just as some people may walk away from relationships with stepchildren, an inability to handle money, or deep health problems.
Whatever the response, it will be deeply helpful for you to know what it is.
The point is not the reveal. The point is to find someone who has the capacity and willingness to be a good partner for you and your piece of baggage, just as someone might have to be able to deal with someone else's kids or debts.
Someone who walks away because of your mental illness doesn't make you lesser, it only means they are not equipped to be your partner. Just as some people may walk away from relationships with stepchildren, an inability to handle money, or deep health problems.
Whatever the response, it will be deeply helpful for you to know what it is.
9
Concerning the father's sexual preferences - if he married women twice, with children (presumptively his), how could you possibly prove he wasn't either heterosexual or bisexual? Granted, many gay people married in earlier days either to hide their sexual preferences or to have children according to the prevailing social mores, but unless the father makes or made a specific statement concerning his personal preferences, it's simply guesswork. From the text shown, both the mother and brother are simply stating their opinions, and nothing has been "revealed."
13
For the instructor:
You only get to deduct points if something is objectively incorrect.
You don't get to penalize people for not learning from their mistakes or because they should have known better. That's outside your scope.
For the gay/bisexual issue:
Who cares if the half-nieces and half-nephews have children who are gay? Telling them that their great-grandfather may or may not have been gay, bisexual or heterosexual serves zero purpose (or does it? because "sharing" the info might accomplish either tarnishing the deceased man's image and/or causing the half-sister pain). The letter writer would be wise to deeply, deeply reflect on his/her own motives.
You only get to deduct points if something is objectively incorrect.
You don't get to penalize people for not learning from their mistakes or because they should have known better. That's outside your scope.
For the gay/bisexual issue:
Who cares if the half-nieces and half-nephews have children who are gay? Telling them that their great-grandfather may or may not have been gay, bisexual or heterosexual serves zero purpose (or does it? because "sharing" the info might accomplish either tarnishing the deceased man's image and/or causing the half-sister pain). The letter writer would be wise to deeply, deeply reflect on his/her own motives.
17
Regarding the grading question: I am an assistant professor in a STEM field. I would not feel it appropriate to grade the same mistakes on an exam (made by a student I have taught twice in two consecutive courses) any more harshly than other students taking the same test who I have not taught before. (Actually, a good ethical principle for grading is that knowing the name of the student should not change the grade--which means there is a lot to be said for moving to anonymous grading systems, which in fact my dept will probably do in the near future). Now, that said, I would not be hesitant to raise the issue if the student asked me to write a letter of reccomendation. . . .
18
Being a suicide-attempter is not on a par with having diabetes or some other physical illness. If you date a suicide-attempter, very quickly you will be given a choice, my way or I'll kill myself. If you do anything other than run, and even running is dangerous, you could be in a situation from which it will be difficult to extricate yourself from. A woman who would control others with suicide attempts will readily accuse you of rape or domestic violence if you attempt to leave.
9
Don't be ridiculous. People who threaten and try to control others in this manner are the manipulators and abusers, not the actual people who try to commit suicide.
Plus, is this how you are going to judge every person who tried committing suicide? Even if they did it 5, 10, 20 years ago (perhaps bearing long-lasting physical scars that cannot be easily erased) and have now fully recovered?
While dating an individual with a mental illness is a personal choice to make, such a blanket judgment as you are making reveals a nasty side from you more so than from those that you so easily accuse.
Plus, is this how you are going to judge every person who tried committing suicide? Even if they did it 5, 10, 20 years ago (perhaps bearing long-lasting physical scars that cannot be easily erased) and have now fully recovered?
While dating an individual with a mental illness is a personal choice to make, such a blanket judgment as you are making reveals a nasty side from you more so than from those that you so easily accuse.
4
I'm pretty sure that when they see the scars on your forearms they will be able to start piecing things together for themselves.
1
Mental illness revelations on the first date? Yes.
Asking the other person to deal with mental illness is a big request and commitment. It is hard and everyone should know what they are getting into.
Asking the other person to deal with mental illness is a big request and commitment. It is hard and everyone should know what they are getting into.
7
What on earth would someone do differently after being informed her future children might "have a propensity" to be gay? (Not that there's anything wrong with that.) The letter writer is weirdly fixated on something fate will handle, and as far as her father goes she probably already knows instinctively what there is to know..
9
On our first date was an eight hour walk in the Village, where nothing was concealed. We were still teenagers, but knew that our chances were better because we married a year later. We still love each other, despite everything since 1979.
Want love? Open your heart.
By the way, he was not my only suitor, but the only one who brought me home to meet the rest of the family, since they'd not seen me since toddlerhood. You marry into a family, not just a person.
Anything less is self-defeating.
Want love? Open your heart.
By the way, he was not my only suitor, but the only one who brought me home to meet the rest of the family, since they'd not seen me since toddlerhood. You marry into a family, not just a person.
Anything less is self-defeating.
3
Regarding the teacher:
Mark harshly but grade generously on the first assignment (and make it clear that the scores would be much worse if submitted later on). That let's the new students know what to expect, and doesn't penalize the repeat students for the teacher's knowledge of them. By the time the second assignment comes around, be tough (but fair). The students might appreciate it later on.
Mark harshly but grade generously on the first assignment (and make it clear that the scores would be much worse if submitted later on). That let's the new students know what to expect, and doesn't penalize the repeat students for the teacher's knowledge of them. By the time the second assignment comes around, be tough (but fair). The students might appreciate it later on.
4
[[Must a Mental Illness Be Revealed on a First Date?]]
Please don't.
[[Do I have an obligation to reveal this information on the first or second date, before any attachment forms, so that any potential partner can “opt out”?]]
I think you have a controlling personality. You think that after two cups of coffee someone will have formed an attachment to you.
How you harmed yourself in the past is less meaningful than whether you are still harming yourself now.
I would recommend that you come to grips with how and why your last relationship ended and that you form an attachment with a therapist.
You should also be plain spoken about whether you are dating for sex or dating to establish your next decade long entanglement.
[[most people who know me have no idea that I am mentally ill]]
You have no way of knowing that.
Please don't.
[[Do I have an obligation to reveal this information on the first or second date, before any attachment forms, so that any potential partner can “opt out”?]]
I think you have a controlling personality. You think that after two cups of coffee someone will have formed an attachment to you.
How you harmed yourself in the past is less meaningful than whether you are still harming yourself now.
I would recommend that you come to grips with how and why your last relationship ended and that you form an attachment with a therapist.
You should also be plain spoken about whether you are dating for sex or dating to establish your next decade long entanglement.
[[most people who know me have no idea that I am mentally ill]]
You have no way of knowing that.
13
While I'm not sure about the letter writer having a controlling personality, I think the rest of the advice is spot-on.
Most of us dislike rejection based on our personality or behaviors, so it's not surprising many people want to introduce a shield (past mental illness, addiction, incarceration, etc) as early as possible. It gives us something to blame the rejection on.
Current mental illness, addiction, etc is another story.
Most of us dislike rejection based on our personality or behaviors, so it's not surprising many people want to introduce a shield (past mental illness, addiction, incarceration, etc) as early as possible. It gives us something to blame the rejection on.
Current mental illness, addiction, etc is another story.
3
"I would recommend that you come to grips with how and why your last relationship ended and that you form an attachment with a therapist.
You should also be plain spoken about whether you are dating for sex or dating to establish your next decade long entanglement."
Attachment? Entanglement?
I know exactly what these words mean, and this bit of advice is worth every penny that was paid for it.
Some people do recover and get over past problems. Otherwise life would a downhill slide from the cradle to the grave.
And the first date may be to vet the other person as having no imperfections of any sort, ancestors came on the Mayflower, etc. But said examiner should have no problems to be discovered. I have to think of that phrase from 'Aunty Mame': Really top drawer.
- Jim
You should also be plain spoken about whether you are dating for sex or dating to establish your next decade long entanglement."
Attachment? Entanglement?
I know exactly what these words mean, and this bit of advice is worth every penny that was paid for it.
Some people do recover and get over past problems. Otherwise life would a downhill slide from the cradle to the grave.
And the first date may be to vet the other person as having no imperfections of any sort, ancestors came on the Mayflower, etc. But said examiner should have no problems to be discovered. I have to think of that phrase from 'Aunty Mame': Really top drawer.
- Jim
1
About the third letter, the writer seems to be very determined to "prove" that her son's being gay is genetic--so not her fault. And is determined that others should see it this way, especially her sister. This comes through too in her defensiveness as she characterizes her son as "gay...and universally loved", while her sister's children merely "live heterosexual lifestyles" and her sister's so-far-nonexistent grandchildren might be gay, after all. All of this would be unnecessary if NW would accept that her own son is gay and it's no one's fault, and not even a matter of fault at all. (She could also stop pretending to want to "help" her sister, when her motives are neither kind nor helpful.)
46
instead of worrying about grading the students fairly maybe the teacher should look at her own skills. If she has to teach the same students the same thing she may want to blame her teaching style instead of blaming her students.
13
You are obviously not a teacher. You have no idea how impervious to learning some people are.
8
Regarding the mental illness question, just ask yourself if the situation were reversed, when would you like your date to tell you about any illnesses, mental or otherwise? That might be a good rule of thumb as to when you should reveal your issue.
20
Regarding mental health and first date: Would you feel the need to disclose another medical condition on a first date: "I've been hospitalized for recurrent pancreatitis...." or "I've had repeated cardiac issues". It's really falls into the same category. It's personal medical information...do you need to share this with a stranger? I'd say give it until at least the third date....
12
There are other ways to grade that will encourage students to take teachers' feedback more seriously. You could, for example, refuse to issue a grade at all until the second draft, giving the student a chance to fix his or her mistakes.
It is frustrating to see students repeating the same mistakes, but simply correcting them does not constitute teaching. You must create the conditions for students to improve and also make sure that the students understands your corrections and has the ability to independently use the principles upon which you are working.
It is frustrating to see students repeating the same mistakes, but simply correcting them does not constitute teaching. You must create the conditions for students to improve and also make sure that the students understands your corrections and has the ability to independently use the principles upon which you are working.
10
44 years ago I married a woman who had been dealing with mild depressive incidents since high school. This was not disclosed to me and I found out a year or so after we married.
It was and is to some extent puzzling to me. Being unhappy when there's no reason to be doesn't make sense to a person whose philosophy of life is that "stuff" happens. Deal with it.
Over the years the incidents have worsened with a period preceding menopause and for fours after being the worst. She was out of work for 6 months and wouldn't leave her bed. I've always been an active participant in the household affairs ie; cleaning, shopping and child care but I was forced to take over everything for that period. After five years of it plus running a business which suffered. I contemplated divorce. I should mention that she also has OCD which started about 25 years ago.
After 5 years of this she attacked me for being controlling and not letting her do anything. That she was incapable was forgotten. I told her pick what she wanted to do. After a couple of months she dumped it all back on me.
The 7 drugs she takes have eliminated what libido she had. I resent that because I wasn't done with sex. Her lack of interaction with life means I can't go anywhere for a few days because she'll walk past the dog's empty dish and not think to fill it. Her latest fixation is her Kindle. She is on it for at least 8 hours a day.
I should have been given a choice before we married.
It was and is to some extent puzzling to me. Being unhappy when there's no reason to be doesn't make sense to a person whose philosophy of life is that "stuff" happens. Deal with it.
Over the years the incidents have worsened with a period preceding menopause and for fours after being the worst. She was out of work for 6 months and wouldn't leave her bed. I've always been an active participant in the household affairs ie; cleaning, shopping and child care but I was forced to take over everything for that period. After five years of it plus running a business which suffered. I contemplated divorce. I should mention that she also has OCD which started about 25 years ago.
After 5 years of this she attacked me for being controlling and not letting her do anything. That she was incapable was forgotten. I told her pick what she wanted to do. After a couple of months she dumped it all back on me.
The 7 drugs she takes have eliminated what libido she had. I resent that because I wasn't done with sex. Her lack of interaction with life means I can't go anywhere for a few days because she'll walk past the dog's empty dish and not think to fill it. Her latest fixation is her Kindle. She is on it for at least 8 hours a day.
I should have been given a choice before we married.
26
You still have a choice and it is not a selfish one. Divorce her and let someone else take care of her. If you did everything you can and she still has problems, it's time to move on. No shame in that.
9
WHY are you still in this relationship? 44 years? You "told her to pick what she wanted to do?" If you choose to stay in misery, stop complaining. It sounds like you two have similar depressive illnesses, which may be what is keeping the two of you together. I hope you are getting help with your own issues.
7
You've had a choice since the day you were married.
Quit blaming her.
Either divorce her (and take the dog with you) or realize you are getting something out of being the victim.
Quit blaming her.
Either divorce her (and take the dog with you) or realize you are getting something out of being the victim.
13
Regarding gay and potentially gay relatives - The person is already doing the best thing for any gay people that show up in the next generation: loving and appreciating the ones who are already there. Let the past lie, and pay attention to who people are in the present.
8
Just because you are so focused on your mental illness and fears of the reveal does not mean you need to blast out the info - it is neither necessary nor appropriate and benefits nobody on a casual date scenario. By the time you - if it should happen - get to know a person more deeply the information of your experiences comes out - much as it does when a prospective lover tells of his/her children, financial situations, past marriages, fear of heights, movie preferences. No harm in going slowly and do not underestimate the potential for fear from the other. Just as some people have extreme fear of getting involved with people who have kids, or have cancer, or are broke, or hate adventure sports, or who never take the subway, or are germaphobes. Have a nice time and please lighten up on yourself!
4
About the grading question, at 70, I still remember my 8th grade science teacher gently hard-timing me for "only" getting a 98 on his test, pointing out that if I'd thought more deeply, I probably had the knowledge to get 100%.
There are 2 sides to testing & grading. Mostly, it's for the benefit of the establishment, not the student, an unfortunate situation. So, my answer is that if an instructor owes the establishment side anything, it's a simple assessment of the student's work, with some nod to the student's apparent inability to learn. But, more importantly, you owe the student honest feedback about the issues you see interfering with his progress, which will have little to do with "grades."
An equally important point to consider is what the student's lack of progress says about the instructor- why does the instructor assume the problem lies with the student?
There are 2 sides to testing & grading. Mostly, it's for the benefit of the establishment, not the student, an unfortunate situation. So, my answer is that if an instructor owes the establishment side anything, it's a simple assessment of the student's work, with some nod to the student's apparent inability to learn. But, more importantly, you owe the student honest feedback about the issues you see interfering with his progress, which will have little to do with "grades."
An equally important point to consider is what the student's lack of progress says about the instructor- why does the instructor assume the problem lies with the student?
6
As a professor, my experience is that the problem USUALLY does lie with the student!
10
Some teachers do not care, they are biased.
As a teacher, I have dozens of students who make As on everything.
I also have students who fail everything.
But they both have me for a teacher--many at the same time of day and in the same period.
So how can the problem be me?
The truth is that students' needs vary and some need a different approach. But that still indicates a problem with that particular student, not the teacher.
I also have students who fail everything.
But they both have me for a teacher--many at the same time of day and in the same period.
So how can the problem be me?
The truth is that students' needs vary and some need a different approach. But that still indicates a problem with that particular student, not the teacher.
6
Regarding the "mental illness" question, some reticence is appropriate- our society is still quite prejudiced on the subject. My opinion is to bring the issue up as soon as the relationship shows any sign of getting serious. Why? Because it's a good test for the future of the relationship. The issue will inevitably arise, so might as well deal with it, but more important, you probably don't want to spend time and energy getting involved with a person who can't deal with an issue that's pretty central to your identity.
9
I am an alcoholic, This is a mental illness. A really serious one.
I am in recovery now. I have not had a drink for over 18 years, thanks to 12-step programs and a higher power. Though I do not reveal my alcoholism to everyone, I am not ashamed. I have had a good life and am grateful for everything I have received.
I am recently divorced and am dating now. I do not disclose my alcoholism immediately. But if there is a promise of continued dating with a woman, I do, for the following reasons:
* It is a part of me. Anyone who wants to know me on a personal level must know about it.
* In terms of habits and behavior, she must know that I do not drink, that I do not go to bars, and I must have time for my 12-step meetings.
* She must know that I prefer not to be around someone who drinks more than occasionally. This way, if she likes to drink, we both know it is not a match.
It is frustrating at times to be a recovering alcoholic in the dating world. I generally suggest coffee for a first date and I think many women prefer bars. One woman told me she had a bad experience dating an alcoholic who said he was sober but started drinking again, and that even though she liked me, she didn't want to take that chance with me. She wasn't unkind about it. She was scared.
At the same time, you can tell a lot about someone by how they accept the disclosure. If a woman accepts and respects it, she might be a keeper.
I am in recovery now. I have not had a drink for over 18 years, thanks to 12-step programs and a higher power. Though I do not reveal my alcoholism to everyone, I am not ashamed. I have had a good life and am grateful for everything I have received.
I am recently divorced and am dating now. I do not disclose my alcoholism immediately. But if there is a promise of continued dating with a woman, I do, for the following reasons:
* It is a part of me. Anyone who wants to know me on a personal level must know about it.
* In terms of habits and behavior, she must know that I do not drink, that I do not go to bars, and I must have time for my 12-step meetings.
* She must know that I prefer not to be around someone who drinks more than occasionally. This way, if she likes to drink, we both know it is not a match.
It is frustrating at times to be a recovering alcoholic in the dating world. I generally suggest coffee for a first date and I think many women prefer bars. One woman told me she had a bad experience dating an alcoholic who said he was sober but started drinking again, and that even though she liked me, she didn't want to take that chance with me. She wasn't unkind about it. She was scared.
At the same time, you can tell a lot about someone by how they accept the disclosure. If a woman accepts and respects it, she might be a keeper.
24
I grew up with an alcoholic; everything was always about him.
I noticed that he often would talk openly about his alcoholism and his AA meetings. I felt he did it so that when rejected, he could blame it on the other person's "inability" to deal with it instead of confronting the possibility that other people might not like his personality. .
It would have been enough for him to say during a first date, "I don't drink or go to bars, but I'm okay if you'd like to order a drink." 6 months down the road, he could have gone into more depth. But that would have forced him to risk rejection based on his actual personality.
If a problem behavior is in the distant past (we can't tell how long it's been since the letter writer self-harmed or was hospitalized), I'd question the motivation for bringing it up before the 4th or 5th week 2 people have been dating.
I noticed that he often would talk openly about his alcoholism and his AA meetings. I felt he did it so that when rejected, he could blame it on the other person's "inability" to deal with it instead of confronting the possibility that other people might not like his personality. .
It would have been enough for him to say during a first date, "I don't drink or go to bars, but I'm okay if you'd like to order a drink." 6 months down the road, he could have gone into more depth. But that would have forced him to risk rejection based on his actual personality.
If a problem behavior is in the distant past (we can't tell how long it's been since the letter writer self-harmed or was hospitalized), I'd question the motivation for bringing it up before the 4th or 5th week 2 people have been dating.
9
I am just curious as to why there is such a bias towards revealing "mental health" issues ASAP. There are many other issues which can impact a relationship in a truly negative way (including other illnesses), yet most people agree that those can wait until the relationship bubbles. Seems a bit hypocritical, imo. Here's a hint: there is no perfect relationship. Everyone has something that they bring to the table.
7
[[Norton Whoville
I am just curious as to why there is such a bias towards revealing "mental health" issues ASAP. There are many other issues which can impact a relationship in a truly negative way.]]
Better to disclose one's credit score, credit card debt and net worth.
Unless you have a compulsion to "save" someone, do not date a person walking around with thousands of dollars in credit card debt.
I am just curious as to why there is such a bias towards revealing "mental health" issues ASAP. There are many other issues which can impact a relationship in a truly negative way.]]
Better to disclose one's credit score, credit card debt and net worth.
Unless you have a compulsion to "save" someone, do not date a person walking around with thousands of dollars in credit card debt.
8
History of mental illness is important when searching for a life partner. Especially, for those of us that have dealt with the suicide of a partner. There's no need for the individual to come out with the details from the get-go, but as a relationship moves to exclusivity, it is absolutely reasonable for their partner to know what they be in store for.
9
Would you be just as concerned over mentioning diabetes or cancer? Mental illness is no different.
6
My gay friends think a lot of people are gay or lesbian, including me.
10
Regarding significant information for a new dating partner: honesty is the best policy, once both parties show some interest. But most first dates probably don't lead to a second, so no need to expose our secrets to strangers. But not a month+ later; trust is the issue at that point. I'd say 3rd date and/or before becoming physically intimate.
14
What is the point of speculating and then discussing the sexual orientation of a dead parent. As with other unknown medical history, knowing or not knowing doesn't change whether a child has inherited those genes or not. If the half sister's children turn out to be gay or not doesn't change whether they know Grandpa was or was not gay. Keep your speculation to yourself. Your parents' sexuality is none of your business. Your mom shouldn't have discussed it with you either.
28
Concerning revealing your "mental illness" to someone you are beginning to date, perhaps it is not so much whether as when and how. A turbulent adolescence and young adulthood is only metaphorically an illness. It's not like the question whether to reveal or not that you have herpes. Perhaps the extent to which you worry about revealing this is an indication of your own questions how thoroughly you have resolved all of this. The more clear you are that hospitalizations, etc., are a thing of the past, the more free you should be to let them get to know you on the basis of getting to know you. Also, the more resolved you are, the less this information will ultimately worry them. The more defensive, the more you will broadcast that they should be worried . Give yourself, and one another, a chance first.
5
Concerning talking to the half-sister with whom you are close about your deceased father, how close can this sistership be if you cannot talk freely about your common parent? It is not gossip. But it is also not knowledge. Just speculation. It is not as if the sister hasn't grown up with firsthand knowledge and her own mother's stories. She can come to her own conclusions. As a sibling, I know I would resent a sibling withholding from me knowledge they thought that important as well as resenting their assumption they could handle this better than I could. This is about you and your sister, not your dad.
4
Why do you assume that the first writer is seeking a male partner?
Nowhere in their question is the gender pronoun of their potential partner indicated, and yet your answer assumes he's male: "One risk is that someone pulls away at once because HE can’t deal with your history of mental illness, but another is that HE pulls away later because you haven’t been honest."
This was confusing, especially since the default gender of the hypothetical student in your second answer is female.
If there are valid reasons for these assumed genders, I am missing them.
Nowhere in their question is the gender pronoun of their potential partner indicated, and yet your answer assumes he's male: "One risk is that someone pulls away at once because HE can’t deal with your history of mental illness, but another is that HE pulls away later because you haven’t been honest."
This was confusing, especially since the default gender of the hypothetical student in your second answer is female.
If there are valid reasons for these assumed genders, I am missing them.
The question is ambiguous for a reason yet the illustration is designed to make you believe it is a Lesbian talking about a Lesbian date. If the author used that question as written to provide for a wider base of audience for responses then the illustration defeats that. Those who responded either did not see the illustration or preferred to tailor a response closer to their reality. Why or which has nothing to do with the question.
You are not missing valid reason. You just have an agenda or a chip on your soldier and if this were a live forum you'd probably be picking a fight with the person or persons who wrote from their perspective.
You are not missing valid reason. You just have an agenda or a chip on your soldier and if this were a live forum you'd probably be picking a fight with the person or persons who wrote from their perspective.
I would say that the 2nd or 3rd date is a good time for any big reveals; significant illnesses, prison records, children, having a stalker ex, etc.
Generally, if someone is somewhat nuts, they will tend to be a magnet for others who are somewhat nuts. So the question is, do you find yourself with people who make you worse, or people who make you better?
"Mental Illness" is a very broad category. If you're prone to depression, break the news gently; most people will be understanding about it. If you feel that you should be wearing a lapel pin that says "I'm attracted to you, you must be bad for me", then at the very least you should be dating people who would think that's funny. If you have a major personality disorder, for god's sake please just stay home!
Generally, if someone is somewhat nuts, they will tend to be a magnet for others who are somewhat nuts. So the question is, do you find yourself with people who make you worse, or people who make you better?
"Mental Illness" is a very broad category. If you're prone to depression, break the news gently; most people will be understanding about it. If you feel that you should be wearing a lapel pin that says "I'm attracted to you, you must be bad for me", then at the very least you should be dating people who would think that's funny. If you have a major personality disorder, for god's sake please just stay home!
6
I study genetics in college and the links for homosexuality are located on at least three different chromosomes at different concentrations. From the scientific perspective I am familiar with men with male loving genes in expression strongly enough to be considered gay have sisters who have nearly a third more children on average.
If you think your family is old fashioned enough to stigmatize someone over something like this it's best to just be as supportive as you can, and what that means is even less well defined than the science behind it.
If you think your family is old fashioned enough to stigmatize someone over something like this it's best to just be as supportive as you can, and what that means is even less well defined than the science behind it.
1
And perhaps the moral of that is to not base ethical decisions on rapidly-changing scientific developments...
The fact that this question about mental illness would be asked at all is evidence of the persistent stigma it carries. Would you feel obligated to immediately tell a date about your asthma, diabetes, celiac disease or arthritis? Of course not—that would just be weird—yet those conditions are somehow not seen as shameful secrets.
5
I strongly object to characterizing a person's mental illness as a "weakness". One would not suggest cancer or other serious ailments as such. The stigma surrounding mental illness is what I think prompted the writer's question in the first place; he or she has probably been conditioned to believe she is a less worthy partner because of her illness, instead of looking at it as just one part of her larger personality. It is her business when and how to tell a potential mate about her suffering with this disease. There is no timetable; unfortunately, she may encounter a narrow-minded individual who judges her harshly for her past self-harm and hospitalizations. Or, she may find a sensitive, enlightened soul who understands her illness and sees her as lovable just the way she is.
3
I would certainly characterize mental illness, as well as cancer or any other weakness, as a "weakness". Calling it a "weakness" doesn't relegate someone to a certain realm of worthiness, but identifies it as one aspect of one's larger personality with varying levels of relevance depending on the situation. Calling it a weakness doesn't mean calling someone a bad person. Everyone has many strengths and weaknesses; the one in question is just one of those many.
These weaknesses may also have spawned certain strengths in the same person. Cancer might contribute to emotional strength. The way someone deals with mental illness may be a strength with other implications (I know, I'm being very vague).
These weaknesses may also have spawned certain strengths in the same person. Cancer might contribute to emotional strength. The way someone deals with mental illness may be a strength with other implications (I know, I'm being very vague).
9
Grrr. That should say "...or any other illness", not "...or any other weakness".
Thank you, Professor Appiah, for your thoughtful and insightful columns; you have elevated The Ethicist to a high standard.
6
RE: self disclosure when dating
Agree that there is no need to reveal everything on the first dates. After all, you may quickly decide this person isn't right for you anyway, so why bother revealing details that have no relevance to the initial encounters.
That said, after a long, painful relationship with someone who I later learned had been diagnosed as Bipolar 11, I have come to the conclusion that there are some things that need to be shared. Not immediately, but fairly soon. These include Health (a woman I know keeps wondering when she should tell a new date that she has had breast cancer). Finances. And past Baggage, whatever it is that can haunt you and needs to be known.
And again, those revelations may be cause for termination of the burgeoning relationship, or grounds to make it stronger.
Agree that there is no need to reveal everything on the first dates. After all, you may quickly decide this person isn't right for you anyway, so why bother revealing details that have no relevance to the initial encounters.
That said, after a long, painful relationship with someone who I later learned had been diagnosed as Bipolar 11, I have come to the conclusion that there are some things that need to be shared. Not immediately, but fairly soon. These include Health (a woman I know keeps wondering when she should tell a new date that she has had breast cancer). Finances. And past Baggage, whatever it is that can haunt you and needs to be known.
And again, those revelations may be cause for termination of the burgeoning relationship, or grounds to make it stronger.
1
So, with an STD, I see the point for telling someone "before it comes up naturally" because it doesn't come up naturally until you're already, um, pretty deep into things. And that's not a good time to bring up any serious issue.
But with mental illness I think things are different. *If* he asks why you're not drinking, you can say, "I've struggled with drinking in the past" or "I take a medication that doesn't mix well with it." If he asks you if you went on any fun trips last summer, you can say, "Unfortunately I was struggling with a recurrence of a serious health issue last summer. It's not fatal, but it requires ongoing management." Etc. You don't need to say, "Speaking of siblings/favorite childhood movies/celebrities we both love to hate, I have been hospitalized multiple times for the same condition." That's just harsh for the other person, who doesn't even know how to reply to such a from-nowhere admission and may feel they're being "tested".
Let your past emerge naturally; don't hide, but don't clobber people with it either.
But with mental illness I think things are different. *If* he asks why you're not drinking, you can say, "I've struggled with drinking in the past" or "I take a medication that doesn't mix well with it." If he asks you if you went on any fun trips last summer, you can say, "Unfortunately I was struggling with a recurrence of a serious health issue last summer. It's not fatal, but it requires ongoing management." Etc. You don't need to say, "Speaking of siblings/favorite childhood movies/celebrities we both love to hate, I have been hospitalized multiple times for the same condition." That's just harsh for the other person, who doesn't even know how to reply to such a from-nowhere admission and may feel they're being "tested".
Let your past emerge naturally; don't hide, but don't clobber people with it either.
10
Everyone has their own deficits of health or personality that affect their romantic relationships in a big way. For a non mentally ill person to assume that his or her flaws necessarily make him less of a potential disaster in a relationship than a person with mental illness is ignorance, hubris and folly.
6
We all have issues we check at the door when we go to work, volunteer, or visit relatives. I suggest doing just that during early dating. If something comes up, you can discuss the matter on a need to know basis. Let the person in on what is necessary to know at the time. Nothing more, nothing less. It is for your emotional protection. You will learn how much you can share emotionally without triggering symptoms. You will learn, through the other persons responses to the bits and pieces, how much you can share without losing a possible friend or lover.
3
Why would you mention a mental health issue? Would you mention another illness? I wouldn't. Dating, at least at the beginning, is susposed to be fun and a nice distraction. You aren't looking for a spouse you're looking for a fun time. Enjoy dinner, a movie, an art exhibit. Talk about things that don't really matter, but are interesting and fun. Local sports team chances this season; good. My moms house is probably going into foreclosure; too much. You enjoy hiking and plan on going to the Grand Canyon this summer; good. You have a slight porn addiction and its interfering with your job: too much. First dates are about seeing if there's a spark, putting your best self forward. Don't point out your scars (speaking figuratively here) just yet. We all have them. Some are just easier to see.
13
I have to say, I am very pleased with the way this column has turned out as written by this columnist.
It was much harder for me to get a clear feeling about the ethicistic skills of the three columnists when this was, for a while, The Ethicists. But it is eminently clear to me that we are in excellent hands with this writer. I have learned a lot.
It was much harder for me to get a clear feeling about the ethicistic skills of the three columnists when this was, for a while, The Ethicists. But it is eminently clear to me that we are in excellent hands with this writer. I have learned a lot.
7
There is no need to bring this up on a first date. This information is best discussed when someone already knows you a bit and can put it in the context of the opinion they have begun to form about you. You also have an interest in privacy, which means being selective in who you discuss this with, i.e. with people you believe you can trust with this very personal information about you.
Once a mutual attraction is clear and there is interest on both sides in getting to know each other better, in the hopes of forming a long term relationship, you will need to come clean. Certainly the scars on your arms will be noticed, and it's better to be up front than allow this to be a surprise.
Once a mutual attraction is clear and there is interest on both sides in getting to know each other better, in the hopes of forming a long term relationship, you will need to come clean. Certainly the scars on your arms will be noticed, and it's better to be up front than allow this to be a surprise.
4
I've never understood why anyone feels compelled to reveal information (real or imagined) about a parent's sexuality to other supposedly clueless family members.
14
It might explain things. I'm sure many people can say "I always wondered why Dad..." did X, Y, and/or Z. Said X, Y, and Z aren't necessarily anything illegal, wrong, unethical, etc., or even that noteworthy to others.
I think most of us would want to know something if it helped us to better understand a loved one.
I think most of us would want to know something if it helped us to better understand a loved one.
3
So maybe the answer is, wait until she brings up the question herself.
1
Once again, the "ethicist" responses have little to do with ethics and are more about pragmatism, social convention, etc. And while I agree with the author's responses, they are multiple, verbose paragraphs that could be concisely written in a few sentences. Verbosity is not the same as careful moral/ethical consideration.
12
Ethics IS pragmatism and social convention.
4
Concerning student grades, you are grading the student for the course they are in, not for courses they took before hand . So knowledge based on those earlier courses should be irrelevant. If you want to speak with the student that's another matter .
Concerning revealing your "mental illness" to someone you are beginning to date, perhaps it is not so much whether as when and how. A turbulent adolescence and young adulthood is only metaphorically an illness. It's not like the question whether to reveal or not that you have herpes. Perhaps the extent to which you worry about revealing this is an indication of your own questions how thoroughly you have resolved all of this. The more clear you are that hospitalizations, etc., are a thing of the past, the more free you should be to let them get to know you on the basis of getting to know you. Also, the more resolved you are, the less this information will ultimately worry them. The more defensive, the more you will broadcast that they should be worried .
Concerning talking to the half-sister with whom you are close about your deceased father, how close can this sistership be if you cannot talk freely about your parent? It is not gossip. But it is also not knowledge. Just speculation. It is not as if the sister hasn't grown up with firsthand knowledge and her own mother's stories. She can come to her own conclusions.
Concerning revealing your "mental illness" to someone you are beginning to date, perhaps it is not so much whether as when and how. A turbulent adolescence and young adulthood is only metaphorically an illness. It's not like the question whether to reveal or not that you have herpes. Perhaps the extent to which you worry about revealing this is an indication of your own questions how thoroughly you have resolved all of this. The more clear you are that hospitalizations, etc., are a thing of the past, the more free you should be to let them get to know you on the basis of getting to know you. Also, the more resolved you are, the less this information will ultimately worry them. The more defensive, the more you will broadcast that they should be worried .
Concerning talking to the half-sister with whom you are close about your deceased father, how close can this sistership be if you cannot talk freely about your parent? It is not gossip. But it is also not knowledge. Just speculation. It is not as if the sister hasn't grown up with firsthand knowledge and her own mother's stories. She can come to her own conclusions.
1
Concerning student grades, you are grading the student for accomplishment, and perhaps progress, the course they are in, not for courses they took beforehand. So knowledge based on those earlier courses should be irrelevant. If you want to speak with the student about these repeated mistakes, that's another matter .
5
Regarding the "mental illness". "Mental illness is a very broad term/classification/condition. It sounds like Miss Withheld (based on the illustration) is sometimes on the severe side of the spectrum, but usually on the mild side. Obviously she didn't want to get too specific in this forum, but knowing the specific condition might be helpful when providing advice.
Like telling one's child that it is adopted, procrastination of this discussion will probably fall into the category of "yesterday was too late, but tomorrow's too soon". I agree that the first date is probably too soon and that wedding day is probably too late.
Maybe the best approach is to let on very early that there are issues (generic - so it could be medical, mental, financial, legal, etc.) and that the nature of such issues will be revealed later. This way, the other party will not be completely blindsided, and can perhaps prod for info, but can still "get to know" the affected party before knowing the issue.
Like telling one's child that it is adopted, procrastination of this discussion will probably fall into the category of "yesterday was too late, but tomorrow's too soon". I agree that the first date is probably too soon and that wedding day is probably too late.
Maybe the best approach is to let on very early that there are issues (generic - so it could be medical, mental, financial, legal, etc.) and that the nature of such issues will be revealed later. This way, the other party will not be completely blindsided, and can perhaps prod for info, but can still "get to know" the affected party before knowing the issue.
17
One of my adult daughters has a serious psychiatric illness. It took years, but I finally persuaded her that this is *not* the most important thing about her.
She used to say it right up front, as though every encounter with a new acquaintance was an introduction at AA: "Hi! My name is ___, and I have ___!"
These days, thank God, she recognizes her diagnosis as just one aspect of herself, along with being a great friend, a good cook, a musician, a wife, a person working at a specific job, and so on.
She used to say it right up front, as though every encounter with a new acquaintance was an introduction at AA: "Hi! My name is ___, and I have ___!"
These days, thank God, she recognizes her diagnosis as just one aspect of herself, along with being a great friend, a good cook, a musician, a wife, a person working at a specific job, and so on.
81
I attended a very interesting lecture by Temple Grandin, who made it clear that it's not necessary to announce yourself as "Autistic"....that's not who you are and to do so is simply self-limiting.
4
I know many people married to women and men with depression, anxiety, and bipolar disorder. These diseases complicate their lives significantly. Even a well-treated depression can and will flare during times of stress, while effective medications carry with them side effects, including sexual issues in the case of many depression medications.
Be honest early. The person deserves to make an educated choice.
Be honest early. The person deserves to make an educated choice.
36
Well, in turn, why does it have to be so one-sided? You could also say that the other person has issues that should be addressed early, even if those are not in the "mental health" category. It would only be fair, as well, to the person who has a mental health diagnosis to know what they are getting into with the other person. Honesty is always the best policy - for BOTH sides.
6
Maybe it doesn't need to be a given that news of a parent's possible bisexuality would be "hurtful", or would prevent the half-sister from continuing to worship her father. The news could add new and interesting colors to the picture of his life, perhaps rendering him even more worthy of admiration for navigating a difficult circumstance with grace.
16
A comedians jokes about imagining you parents or your nice old Granny having sex usually brings the response that the mental image of them doing it has burned itself into your brain and you'll never see them in the same light again.
Sure, we know how we got here but I don't think anyone really wants or needs to imagine the mechanics behind the process and especially the recreational things that you do with sex. Surely Granny could never have done that.
I'm here as are my seven siblings. That means they had sex at least eight times. Whatever else they were thinking and doing is none of my business just as much as what my children are doing in their minds and bedrooms.
Sure, we know how we got here but I don't think anyone really wants or needs to imagine the mechanics behind the process and especially the recreational things that you do with sex. Surely Granny could never have done that.
I'm here as are my seven siblings. That means they had sex at least eight times. Whatever else they were thinking and doing is none of my business just as much as what my children are doing in their minds and bedrooms.
6
The most important thing about telling someone about a mental illness might be clarity and concision, as well as honesty, about what has happened and what can be expected. It's fear of the unknown that is the hardest to bear in any relationship, perhaps especially with someone who has an illness or history of any illness. I agree it needn't be shared until you have decided the person is worthy of your trust, and I think it's important to convey the truth that you are cautiously optimistic that you will be able to be open but that you don't open up automatically. I think you may be able to tell if you have found someone who has enough experience in life to understand how complexity is inevitable and perfection is an illusion. Maybe give the other person a chance to see you at your best first, but tell the truth before you could be terribly hurt by rejection because of the illness or your lack of honesty. Many best wishes.
32
Name Withheld (NW) has a successful career and supports himself. Good for him. But he also has a recurring mental illness that can be debilitating and has put him in the hospital. Numerous times.
After my divorce and before my remarriage, I dated. I sometimes arranged to meet those who had placed personal ads in a singles journal. I saw ads which said no drugs or had similar reasons for a reader of the ad to see that he or she was not a subject of interest to whomever placed the ad. I never placed an ad. Had I, I would have said, no drugs, non-smoker.
But suppose I placed an ad with no such qualification or, as was the case, met people without ever placing an ad. And I met someone who in fact was a smoker or used drugs, but had a successful career and supported herself and didn’t smoke or use drugs the first few times we dated. I would not be happy. Politely, I would say sayonara PDQ.
An expression I heard and then have sometimes used, is, “Like a moustache, it grows on you.” That expression and caveat emptor don’t apply to NW. There is a choice in the problem but the choice is not ethically the choice of NW. It is the choice of whomever he dates, after hearing up front of the facts regarding mental illness, to say “No problem,” or, on the other hand, “I think I’ll pass.”
After my divorce and before my remarriage, I dated. I sometimes arranged to meet those who had placed personal ads in a singles journal. I saw ads which said no drugs or had similar reasons for a reader of the ad to see that he or she was not a subject of interest to whomever placed the ad. I never placed an ad. Had I, I would have said, no drugs, non-smoker.
But suppose I placed an ad with no such qualification or, as was the case, met people without ever placing an ad. And I met someone who in fact was a smoker or used drugs, but had a successful career and supported herself and didn’t smoke or use drugs the first few times we dated. I would not be happy. Politely, I would say sayonara PDQ.
An expression I heard and then have sometimes used, is, “Like a moustache, it grows on you.” That expression and caveat emptor don’t apply to NW. There is a choice in the problem but the choice is not ethically the choice of NW. It is the choice of whomever he dates, after hearing up front of the facts regarding mental illness, to say “No problem,” or, on the other hand, “I think I’ll pass.”
8
Funny, you assumed that NW is a male, while I envisioned a female. I wonder why? In my case it was the "cutting," strongly associated with borderline personality disorder which is three times more prevalent in families than males.
And you, Donald?
And you, Donald?
6
I assumed female because of the illustration.
1
Sharing one's mental history during a first or second date seems to go beyond social convention and would likely be a drain for the person sharing. Most of us have been in therapy at one point or another. Should there be some sort of pecking order as to which illnesses, psychological or physical, are worthy of mention and a prescribed time period like how long you wait after a meal to swim? Alcoholism? First date. Drug addiction, second date. Eating Disorders, don't even bother. Depression? Bi-Polar? Schizophrenia?
As far as the presumably bisexual father, aside from maybe an interest in knowing more about our parents'lives or maybe struggles, I don't see the value of sharing. The writer seems to want to assign some reason why her son and brother are gay. Why does it matter? I have known more than a few marriages that have ended or still exist in a grey zone after the husband was found to be having sex with other men on the down low. I would suspect that was common for many years.
As far as the presumably bisexual father, aside from maybe an interest in knowing more about our parents'lives or maybe struggles, I don't see the value of sharing. The writer seems to want to assign some reason why her son and brother are gay. Why does it matter? I have known more than a few marriages that have ended or still exist in a grey zone after the husband was found to be having sex with other men on the down low. I would suspect that was common for many years.
11
Most of us have been in therapy one time or another?
What wealthy bubble do you live in???!!!
What wealthy bubble do you live in???!!!
5
I disclosed my Asperger's upfront as "the worst thing about me." Why waste my time with people who can't handle it? Will soon celebrate two years with the one who disclosed his own issues on Day One in return. My response to his disclosure of his "worst thing" was "Is that all? It's not like you were one of Cheney's torture lawyers or something."
71
I love that response. Next time my children tell me they have something awful to tell me, I will listen and then say, "Well, I'm so glad you're not telling me you were one of Cheney's torturers". Will definitely lighten the mood!
7
Guessing about gayness of a dead parent and telling on him: She's worried about a 'propensity' for being gay in her sister's kids? Run that by me again? Besides, what her sister's kid's sexual orientation is...why is she concerned?
I'd be more interested in why she asked her mother the questions about her father. There's a story there and it's not about her sister's kids.
I'd be more interested in why she asked her mother the questions about her father. There's a story there and it's not about her sister's kids.
68
The problem with withholding one's psychiatric history is that it may encourage the other person to pursue a relationship with someone they would otherwise avoid. This matters on a date if one is interested in pursuing a relationship with that person. Since any successful relationship is built on trust, the budding relationship is undermined when something as relevant as a psychiatric illness is intentionally hidden. If there is no interest in a second date, there is no worry about sabotaging a relationship, so it is up to the individual to decide what they are comfortable sharing.
10
What you are saying is so transactionary. What this reader wants, and what most people deserve, is a chance to be known a little before judgments are made based on a label.
6
Re: Mental illness.
Wait until the person shows real interest (and surely that is not for a few months?) and then use the Golden Rule. After all, if they had a serious illness, if they were diabetic, wouldn't you want them to let you know?
Wait until the person shows real interest (and surely that is not for a few months?) and then use the Golden Rule. After all, if they had a serious illness, if they were diabetic, wouldn't you want them to let you know?
17
Well, I think there are degrees here. If someone told me he was diabetic, I wouldn't bat an eyelash. I have an overactive thyroid. Who cares? It hasn't affected my partner's life in the slightest. But if I was in the early stages of a relationship and someone told me he had attempted suicide or was an alcoholic or had been hospitalized numerous times because of mental illness, that would give me pause. The other party has a right to decide what he or she wants to take on in a relationship, and those issues will have a profound effect on not just the LW but whoever she gets involved with. And at the same time, the LW has a right to know whether her potential mate has the capacity to support her during hard times; not everyone is capable of that, and a partner who bolts in the middle of a crisis is probably worse than no partner at all.
Everyone draws the line at a different point. I don't think the LW is obligated to reveal all on the first date -- she's going to kiss a few frogs before she finds her prince or princess -- but personally I would want to know within a reasonable time frame. Maybe before things turned intimate?
Everyone draws the line at a different point. I don't think the LW is obligated to reveal all on the first date -- she's going to kiss a few frogs before she finds her prince or princess -- but personally I would want to know within a reasonable time frame. Maybe before things turned intimate?
8
Regarding grading students, I think it would only be unethical to mark the students based on prior performance if the students didn't know a prior professor was grading their work. But the students obviously do. They know what constructive criticism they have received in the past. A good student would say, "gee, I have Dr. Smith. I know she likes strong declarative sentences. How lucky for me I already know what she's looking for." And they would adapt accordingly. A good student takes advantage of repeat performance. A bad student doesn't learn and doesn't care. Since the students have an opportunity to do BETTER by having you grade them more than once, it seems only fair they also have an opportunity to do worse.
19
I found both the question and the answer unnecessarily lengthy and confusing. It seems the instructor is saying he/she sees a student she has corrected in another class repeating the same mistake(s). Yes of course that student should be graded more stringently than his fellow students.
1
About the possibly bisexual or gay father, now deceased. If he were alive, it would be his information and decision to share. He's not alive anymore. Anything you can say about his inner life is speculative. Are you ok with gossiping about your late father? Or would you prefer to acknowledge his right to privacy even now, by not speculating?
27
Muss es sein? Ya, es muss sein. Would you want children to have a baby sitter that is a convicted pedophile?
If you have mental problems , come clean. The other party needs to make the decision.
If you have mental problems , come clean. The other party needs to make the decision.
1
dve - what, in heaven's name does pedophilia have to do with the majority of people who have had depression or some other "mental illness." That seems like a very bad comparison, imo.
18
For heaven's sake. Leave your parents' sex lives alone, and certainly after they're dead. Find something else to gossip about.
104
Having once had a comment at the end of a freshman English class with the teacher saying he was disappointed that it had seemed I had not paid attention to anything he'd said, or words to that effect when I had struggled all year to do just that, I'll say no, don't grade based on repeated mistakes.
I had taken his comments responded and corrected my papers in what I thought was direct response to his comments and still got it wrong often citing some of what I thought he'd thought was wrong in the first place. Just because a student hasn't understood what you are getting at doesn't mean they are ignoring you. You might have found a way to explain to them that they understand, or it may be an issue that they particularly struggle with.
People can be very hidebound about how things are explained too. I know for years I struggled with adding machines because you always put a plus even if you are subtracting. It didn't make sense and I often made mistakes. Then my mother explained, that it was because you were essentially adding a negative number. The lightbulb went off. It ordered itself in my mind and I had no more troubles. However, I told my husband and he disapproved completely of this explanation—even though it was the only one that ever made sense to me. That is nuts to me. I think the teacher should consider perhaps he/she hasn't been creative enough in explaining the problem that needs to be fixed.
I had taken his comments responded and corrected my papers in what I thought was direct response to his comments and still got it wrong often citing some of what I thought he'd thought was wrong in the first place. Just because a student hasn't understood what you are getting at doesn't mean they are ignoring you. You might have found a way to explain to them that they understand, or it may be an issue that they particularly struggle with.
People can be very hidebound about how things are explained too. I know for years I struggled with adding machines because you always put a plus even if you are subtracting. It didn't make sense and I often made mistakes. Then my mother explained, that it was because you were essentially adding a negative number. The lightbulb went off. It ordered itself in my mind and I had no more troubles. However, I told my husband and he disapproved completely of this explanation—even though it was the only one that ever made sense to me. That is nuts to me. I think the teacher should consider perhaps he/she hasn't been creative enough in explaining the problem that needs to be fixed.
33
In your case, after a few rounds, teacher and student should have tried talking. A little face-to-face could have gone a long way.
If you can't grade on mistakes, what is left, that the student simply submitted the assignment?
If you can't grade on mistakes, what is left, that the student simply submitted the assignment?
27
When I taught, I had students who had performed well read their essays to the class, which provided living examples of what an A essay sounded like. I agree with Dave that a consultation during your professor's office hours could have helped clarify issues.
I also remember my dismay when I discovered that my long commentaries on student papers went unread by those who were unable to read longhand.
I also remember my dismay when I discovered that my long commentaries on student papers went unread by those who were unable to read longhand.
1
I believe grades have a purpose: to separate out those who can't easily understand from those who can, especially in crucial fields such as medicine.
2
For the instructor with the grading issue, the answer is to use a Rubric for grading. A rubric should be created for every graded assignment. It should also be handed out to students so they know as they complete their assignment how it will be graded so they can self-monitor their work in progress. A rubric will also keep you honest and fair in how you grade each student on each assignment.
44
You can have a rubric and still face this problem. It still requires interpretation, especially for higher-level subjects, and if students don't understand something, they will not be good at evaluating whether they have understood it or not.
This is one of the reasons why we don't just teach ourselves things out of books for the most part, in life, alas.
This is one of the reasons why we don't just teach ourselves things out of books for the most part, in life, alas.
12
I agree with cs on this - I think rubrics are often held out as doing a lot more than they can actually do. I want students to write clearly, explain arguments thoroughly and in detail, make relevant objections, use correct grammar and mechanics, etc. But if students don't know how to do those things, the rubric doesn't help. If they already do know how to do those things, they don't really need it. it helps if you are using completely superficial metrics on which to grade (cited 3 non-Wikipedia sources! used 12 point font!) but for anything involving higher level skills, they are not that useful, I find.
4
was this that made the decision to continue getting to know him more obvious. I think it's something that should be shared relatively early on, and I think if a person can't be accepting of that, then they're not worth your time. At the same time, the other person could have some of the same struggles. It might be a bit of relief for them to know that they don't have to worry about sharing their struggles with you as well.
2
My apologies! My thoughts get ahead of me sometimes. We exchanged two or three messages online. Me being ever paranoid, was certain he could never be seriously interested. So I quit responding. He wasn't having trouble at this point, though. A month and a half later when I contacted him again, he was deep into this bout, and said so in the first response he sent back.
"Not worth your time" is pretty harsh. I grew up with an extremely violent schizophrenic mother. I would never knowingly marry someone with a serious mental illness because I know what some of them become capable of over the years or as drugs stop working and I will not live a repeat of my childhood or give birth to a child who may experience the horrors I did. I would not take the risk, even though she was more violent than most. Nor would I knowingly have a child with someone who could pass on a genetic predisposition to certain mental illnesses.
6
I met the man I'm currently dating online. At the time, he didn't reveal his depression. We had stopped communicating for a while, and when we resumed the first thing he told me was that he was struggling with the worst bout of depression he had ever experienced. While this situation is different from what was described, I can share from my point of view. I was grateful he shared his struggle from the beginning. He is such an amazing person that I can't imagine judging him or not giving him consideration because of it. I had struggled with depression too many years ago, and maybe it was this that made the decision to continue getting to know him more obvious. I think it's something that should be shared relatively early on, and I think if a person can't be accepting of that, then they're not worth your time. At the same time, the other person could have some of the same struggles. It might be a bit of relief for them to know that they don't have to worry about sharing their struggles with you as well.
40
Are you missing a word or two? It sounds like he didn't share his depression with you at the beginning, but then you say you were grateful he shared his struggle from the beginning. Maybe I'm just misreading it.
13
Your comments about grading would be laughable if they didn't miss the mark so far. Since when do schools act as the funnel for who is good and who is not? Oh wait, that is what they have done for years now. The death knell of liberal arts is close by but what will take their place remains to be seen.
5
Stigmatization on mental illness is a major hurdle for people accepting one another as people. If "mental illness" is such a pressing issue to discuss in relationships, then all the other problems, financial, health limitations, social and family histories should be also. I would hope that people could get beyond the stereotypes and just accept life on life's terms. When most of the population worked on farms or were engaged in survival work, such judgments were far less important than day to day competence in performing their tasks with the right attitude and social acceptance.
19
Excellent comment. Just excellent.
1
LW 1 - this seems your business and someone who'd reject you over your illness right away isn't all that different from someone who'd reject you over your illness after disclosure several months from now. There's no reason not to maintain some privacy about yourself. Why spill all this to someone on a 1st or 2nd date that may not go anywhere when it sounds like if it didn't go anywhere, you might wrongly blame a lack of interest on your disclosure, when actually a date just didn't pan out. I'd wait until there is some indication the person is interested in you. Otherwise bringing this up for discussion so early might come off like "drama," which I assume you're hoping to avoid.
About family disclosures of presumed but not proven gayness: I'm all for letting young folks deal with whoever their parents seem to them to be and not trying to 'correct' their impression to reflect how you view your parents. Every child has a unique relationship with a parent and for siblings to try to 'inform' them of what the sibling believes they're not 'getting' seems controlling and pointless. If they ever ask you can say what you think but otherwise, I'm opposed to trying to 'influence' people to come around to your perceptions.
About family disclosures of presumed but not proven gayness: I'm all for letting young folks deal with whoever their parents seem to them to be and not trying to 'correct' their impression to reflect how you view your parents. Every child has a unique relationship with a parent and for siblings to try to 'inform' them of what the sibling believes they're not 'getting' seems controlling and pointless. If they ever ask you can say what you think but otherwise, I'm opposed to trying to 'influence' people to come around to your perceptions.
26
I don't think you have to discuss mental health issues until you've been together long enough to be open about your prejudices. Not much to be gained by waving the news to someone unless you believe that person would understand. It takes time to learn that.
If the student has not mastered the vocabulary or format of your discipline, his performance is inadequate. You may be disappointed, and you may remind him that this has been said before, but you cannot be more severe. It's up to him to recognize the standards or suffer the penalty. We have dictionaries nowadays. If the student doesn't use resources wisely, that student shouldn't pass.
Your very existence indicates your dad may have been bisexual, or much more likely, straight. 30's was a very different era, where men congregated with men and women kept the company of other women without any sexual implications. Your son and your brother are gay. You are looking for someone or something to blame, as perhaps you mother did when their marriage broke up. This is not a situation where blame should exist, and as Dr.Appiah noted, if there is genetic basis, it may have come on your mother's side. You are the end of the male line there; stop searching for a cause. Sometimes things just happen. Even if you found that 'missing link' it would irrelevant. Your half-sister has lived without the speculation about a man who was married twice, and the 'information' is very questionable, at best.
If the student has not mastered the vocabulary or format of your discipline, his performance is inadequate. You may be disappointed, and you may remind him that this has been said before, but you cannot be more severe. It's up to him to recognize the standards or suffer the penalty. We have dictionaries nowadays. If the student doesn't use resources wisely, that student shouldn't pass.
Your very existence indicates your dad may have been bisexual, or much more likely, straight. 30's was a very different era, where men congregated with men and women kept the company of other women without any sexual implications. Your son and your brother are gay. You are looking for someone or something to blame, as perhaps you mother did when their marriage broke up. This is not a situation where blame should exist, and as Dr.Appiah noted, if there is genetic basis, it may have come on your mother's side. You are the end of the male line there; stop searching for a cause. Sometimes things just happen. Even if you found that 'missing link' it would irrelevant. Your half-sister has lived without the speculation about a man who was married twice, and the 'information' is very questionable, at best.
18
If you actually are "living under witness protection" not telling anyone you meet in your new location is required to remain in the program. Not discussing it is ethical although perhaps how you ended up in it was not.
13
Not discussing it is required by the program, but is it ethical with regard to the interaction between you and the person you met while in the program? Laws/policy and ethics are not always in agreement.
5
So how do you reconcile the policy with the ethics? A few carefully placed hints maybe, like responding when somebody calls out Hey Bob and your new name is Joe. Having a very limited past or a very strange set of stories. Must be strange.
1
DEPENDS ON THE SERIOSNESS OF THE PROBLEM, HOW LONG
IT HAS BEEN IN REMISSION AND THE PROGNOSIS . . .
...but, generally no! Firstly, since most see these conditions as stigmatized and know very little about mental illness ... if you mention it immediately ... your date will be predisposed to see you as (at least) somewhat as having a psychiatric condition even if none is present.
Other considerations include what you can intuit about your new friend. If things go along well ... discuss it with those who are close to you ... and, of course, the psychiatrist and counselor.
But, if the relationship becomes "serious" ... (whatever that means?), yes it is your obligation to be as forthright about having this (it seems in this instance) to be chronic) and both of you should via reading or other media to learn as much about your psychiatric/psychological condition and the probability of it what is likely to occur in the long run.
When you tell your partner be objective and show as little emotion ... as this could have a negative effect.
IT HAS BEEN IN REMISSION AND THE PROGNOSIS . . .
...but, generally no! Firstly, since most see these conditions as stigmatized and know very little about mental illness ... if you mention it immediately ... your date will be predisposed to see you as (at least) somewhat as having a psychiatric condition even if none is present.
Other considerations include what you can intuit about your new friend. If things go along well ... discuss it with those who are close to you ... and, of course, the psychiatrist and counselor.
But, if the relationship becomes "serious" ... (whatever that means?), yes it is your obligation to be as forthright about having this (it seems in this instance) to be chronic) and both of you should via reading or other media to learn as much about your psychiatric/psychological condition and the probability of it what is likely to occur in the long run.
When you tell your partner be objective and show as little emotion ... as this could have a negative effect.
11
Why does anyone think they need to share information about family members who are dead? What possible value exists to discuss this suspicion with other family members?
96
And who examines the sexual preferences of their parents, dead or alive?
Creepy.
Creepy.
30
I can see trying to mange sense of a family member's behavior or disks. I don't think there's any harm in musing about it. I just think it's important to remember that there aren't any facts in this particular situation. It's all conjecture.
2