Never is a long time. Have you ever even been to China? They have a strong central government that thinks in terms of 10, 20 and 50 year plans. Yes, they have some human rights problems but they also know how to handle corruptions and definitely have a "rule of law".
Remember the mortgage meltdown? How many CEOs even went to jail?
Now, do you remember the melamine in the milk scandal in China? It was traced back to a corrupt government inspector working with a corrupt milk broker/business man. They were both executed.
Here in the US, we dealt with public corruption by decriminalizing it, thanks to Citizens United. The NYT routinely reports on shady billionaires with huge gambling interests pledging to spend $100 Million to influence the next election cycle and everybody acts like that's totally fine & normal.
Remember the mortgage meltdown? How many CEOs even went to jail?
Now, do you remember the melamine in the milk scandal in China? It was traced back to a corrupt government inspector working with a corrupt milk broker/business man. They were both executed.
Here in the US, we dealt with public corruption by decriminalizing it, thanks to Citizens United. The NYT routinely reports on shady billionaires with huge gambling interests pledging to spend $100 Million to influence the next election cycle and everybody acts like that's totally fine & normal.
The laws and passages they were reading throughout the trial kept stating how marriage is legal between a man and a woman, but there were never any statements about how marriage between a man and a man or a woman and a woman is illegal. As this court battle was taking place, many people were waiting outside the courthouse to show their support for the two men who were trying to appeal. I think this really shows how much times have changed over the past few years. People used to not be in favor of supporting same-sex marriage whatsoever, and now many people are coming together to support one another, even if they are not in the same boat as the others are. I believe that incidents such as this are actually bringing people together and making our same-sex community stronger than ever. Witnessing someone not be able to marry the person they love is painful and unfair. Even though the court is unlikely to accept the appeal the two had requested, it is still a big step for everyone. Hopefully if more incidents like this keep occurring the courts will eventually back down towards this issue. Seeing how so many people are coming together really shows how much we are growing as a community.
I admire the courage of individuals like Mr. Sun and Mr. Hu enormously. For their sake and others hope that their action does not jeopardise their personal safety.
Hearing cases where so many people are denied the right for same-sex marriage mind-boggles me and honestly makes me sick to my stomach. Being able to be with the one you love is the only thing that should matter, whether that means marrying someone who is the opposite sex as you or the same sex. I think the couple who filed the lawsuit after being denied the right to marry were completely correct in doing so. If in no laws it was stated that same sex marriage was illegal, then they should not have been denied the right to marry one another. Courts cannot just assume that all citizens are supposed to just know what the courts meant when they were creating the laws, or have to try and figure it out on their own. It should be clearly stated and if it is not then they should not be denied their rights as human beings.
The road to equality is long, but every step is worthwhile. Thank you to these Chinese pioneers for their courage.
It seems that American Christian fundamentalists like Kim Davis have something in common with officials in the godless authoritarian Chinese state. Both seem incapable of accepting the universal worth of bonds of love between two individuals.
2
Can you asked a Bureaucracy to ignore the wording, LOL. Same sex marriage is occurring here and there, after the laws are change and after (years of) pressure exerted.
What is interesting in this case is how it found its way to court and was heard in a timely manner. The reform process seems to be making it appearance here where likely no opening would have existed before. Making China’s legal system develop and function is one aim of the reforms and seeing this as a hint it is happening should be very encouraging to all.
What is interesting in this case is how it found its way to court and was heard in a timely manner. The reform process seems to be making it appearance here where likely no opening would have existed before. Making China’s legal system develop and function is one aim of the reforms and seeing this as a hint it is happening should be very encouraging to all.
Should this have been a surprise to anyone???
They'd have a better chance getting married in Saudi Arabia!!!
They'd have a better chance getting married in Saudi Arabia!!!
2
Had this occur in any US state you won'be deflecting your disapproval a side-track response, but calling for the US multinational business to boycot..., ah, you a gem of a Christian hater!
Im wondering how many companies will move offices out of China and stop doing business with companies over there, as a result of discrimination. They did it in North Carolina, Mississippi & Georgia; But my guess is they are hypocrites and not one company will stop doing business over there.
4
Zero, zip, nada. They all like the cheap 1.5 billion people market where union are illegal, the PEA is non-existent, working conditions like sweat shops deplorable... and child labor numerous. Don't expect to hear a peep about this from any US company doing business over there.
1
Why might Americans respond differently to homophobia in China than in America?
One explanation that comes to mind right away is that we Americans care deeply about fellow Americans and about what happens within our nation. What North Carolina and Mississippi have done to their LGBT citizens is a travesty that runs counter to American values of fairness, justice and tolerance. These anti-gay and anti-trans laws are a throwback to an earlier and darker era in this country. North Carolina and Mississippi have closed their eyes to the enormous gains that gay and lesbian and trans Americans have made in the recent past in having their civil rights recognized and respected.
In contrast, it is laughable to suggest that any amount of boycotting by American businesses could have any effect on the authoritarian Chinese state. Unlike the U.S., the Chinese do not have Western values, and for all intents and purposes civil rights as we know them - including religious freedom - do not exist in China. Boycotting would be futile.
So different responses are not hypocrisy but simply the exercise of common sense.
One explanation that comes to mind right away is that we Americans care deeply about fellow Americans and about what happens within our nation. What North Carolina and Mississippi have done to their LGBT citizens is a travesty that runs counter to American values of fairness, justice and tolerance. These anti-gay and anti-trans laws are a throwback to an earlier and darker era in this country. North Carolina and Mississippi have closed their eyes to the enormous gains that gay and lesbian and trans Americans have made in the recent past in having their civil rights recognized and respected.
In contrast, it is laughable to suggest that any amount of boycotting by American businesses could have any effect on the authoritarian Chinese state. Unlike the U.S., the Chinese do not have Western values, and for all intents and purposes civil rights as we know them - including religious freedom - do not exist in China. Boycotting would be futile.
So different responses are not hypocrisy but simply the exercise of common sense.
When dig deep into homophobia, it's really much less about religion than about the deep-seated fear of the strange and the other. Modern Christians, even the most fundamental, pick and choose what commands they follow out of the bible and how they follow it. You only need to look across the wide variety of Christian practices to see how nearly no two sects agree on these doctrines.
The Chinese government has largely dispensed with old fashioned communist rhetoric as it embraced capitalism, but it still wants to maintain control over its population. It wants a conformist population that is easy to control.
To a regime demanding conformity, gay people are strange and disruptive. They challenge the regime's narrow vision of an orderly society. Never mind that law and order in China is really an illusion, and many party officials and robber barons are rampant law-breakers themselves. To keep the status quo and maintain conformity, those in power are eager to keep these people leading a "weird" and "unconventional" lifestyle out of the social mainstream.
The Chinese government has largely dispensed with old fashioned communist rhetoric as it embraced capitalism, but it still wants to maintain control over its population. It wants a conformist population that is easy to control.
To a regime demanding conformity, gay people are strange and disruptive. They challenge the regime's narrow vision of an orderly society. Never mind that law and order in China is really an illusion, and many party officials and robber barons are rampant law-breakers themselves. To keep the status quo and maintain conformity, those in power are eager to keep these people leading a "weird" and "unconventional" lifestyle out of the social mainstream.
7
"Modern Christians, even the most fundamental, pick and choose what commands they follow out of the bible and how they follow it."
They are known as "cafeteria Catholics".
They are known as "cafeteria Catholics".
If not defined clearly in law, then it can be called illegal by the government, that is how China works. I don't understand why the couple called the ruling illogical, unless they weren't grow up in China, or had a very special logical system.
It would require National People's Congress to amend the law so gay couple can marry, and unless there's huge pressure like 'OMG China is going to collapse without this amendment', you will not likely to get it. One child policy can be abandoned - but can gay couple make babies? No? Then it doesn't solve the aging problem China is facing right now, and it won't get the priority any time soon.
That being said, personally I support same sex marriage. It's much better than the fake marriages that destroyed many gay/straight people's lives anyway.
It would require National People's Congress to amend the law so gay couple can marry, and unless there's huge pressure like 'OMG China is going to collapse without this amendment', you will not likely to get it. One child policy can be abandoned - but can gay couple make babies? No? Then it doesn't solve the aging problem China is facing right now, and it won't get the priority any time soon.
That being said, personally I support same sex marriage. It's much better than the fake marriages that destroyed many gay/straight people's lives anyway.
Here's an interesting thought- how many people here condemning China for their policy on gay marriage also condemned Trump for saying that America should not pay for Saudi Arabia's military? China is pretty terrible on social issues, but Saudi Arabia is much worse. You people can't have it both ways!
7
Of all the many, many things people can legitimately criticize Trump for, I don't think that one is very high on the list.
The spirit of Mississippi, North Carolina, the Roman Catholic Church and evangelicals lives in the Central Middle Kingdom.
4
I live in Mississippi. You are right. I grew up in Taiwan, where gay marriage may actually be legalized soon with this new president. China wants to swallow Taiwan, but can't understand why Taiwanese don't want to live under a repressive government(!)?
2
In a way this is very good news. The issue is out in the open, part of the public discussion within China. It's the first little crack in the wall. Inevitably the wall will crumble in time.
It seems China is progressing. I read articles about how the citizenry is starting to wake up to issues of environmental sustainability as well. The public are moving ahead of their leaders. I hope the trend continues. We must do what we can to encourage it.
It seems China is progressing. I read articles about how the citizenry is starting to wake up to issues of environmental sustainability as well. The public are moving ahead of their leaders. I hope the trend continues. We must do what we can to encourage it.
6
Ok...China can get a pass this time because they are progressing, but any person with a business in the US can be taken to court for not condoning and agreeing to cater to a homosexual marriage vilified, and the State boycotted when they try to protect widely held Christian stance. Nice going you civilized dignitary of modern world beliefs. Either condemn us both equally with your boycotting mentality or say nothing of the matter.
This is probably the only time I agree with the Chinese.
3
It is extremely unfortunate but gay rights within China is almost unheard of. Being gay is still very much looked down upon or frowned upon in Chinese society, where many people believe that it is a choice or that there is something inherently wrong with a person if he/she is gay. I hope this will change in the next few decades. After all, it has taken the US and many other countries a long time to legalize gay marriage as well. On a side note, I would also like to respond to the police officers' comment that "a married couple has an important duty to have children"--adoption in China is also frowned upon with many families not considering adopted children actual children of the parents who adopt them. China still has a long way to go and to be quite honest, I am not very optimistic about its outcome given its current leadership regime.
2
Long way from what? Achieving Western virtues? Are we under the assumption that gay rights should be universally recognized? Like you've said, if "many people" in China don't support this idea, why should the gov't make any effort to accommodate or to progress on this front? Don't think they still have a "long way" to go, think they're just on a different path.
1
A "majority" of people who are wrong to oppress others, are still wrong. Gay people have rights. Human rights are universal. Being able to marry your love, regardless of gender, is a human right.
Walk a mile in our shoes, and you would perhaps understand.
Walk a mile in our shoes, and you would perhaps understand.
2
You would think that a government so deeply invested in downsizing its population would also support relationships that have no chance of producing offspring without reproductive intervention. Unfortunately they stick to illogical family "values" instead of considering the economic benefits of supporting gay marriage.
2
There is a logic to these values, namely Confucian logic. Ancestors require propitiation, and living descendants rely on the protections of their ancestors. This is a logic, whether it is yours is irrelevant.
Having said that, there are numerous cases in which families have "adopted" deceased people to serve as ancestors, so there is no reason that these two men can't adopt one another's ancestors.
And the best possible outcome? Let gay couples adopt those children who are without parents and whose suffering is the result of the one-child (and now two-child--hardly much better) policy. Win-Win-Win.
Having said that, there are numerous cases in which families have "adopted" deceased people to serve as ancestors, so there is no reason that these two men can't adopt one another's ancestors.
And the best possible outcome? Let gay couples adopt those children who are without parents and whose suffering is the result of the one-child (and now two-child--hardly much better) policy. Win-Win-Win.
4
Let's see if the Obama administration calls for a boycott of all Chinese made goods. Not likely. Profits trump politics.
3
Dear larsd4
You seem to want to single out the Obama administration....
As you know, its a lot more complicated than that and involves more than just the executive branch....
In the meantime, ill assume you're going to put your money where your mouth is and boycott all chinese made goods.
Its a question of credibility.
You seem to want to single out the Obama administration....
As you know, its a lot more complicated than that and involves more than just the executive branch....
In the meantime, ill assume you're going to put your money where your mouth is and boycott all chinese made goods.
Its a question of credibility.
6
You're free to boycott them yourself any time you wish.
5
I have run a personal Chinese boycott for many years based on job theft from the U.S., not social issues. The boycott has not been perfect, but I try.
Ted Cruz, Donald Trump and all the other Republicans who hate gay marriage and transgender people -- and want legislation to attack them -- should move to that bastion of freedom that is China, because it clearly represents Cruz/Trump/Republican values against gay people. (Or Russia). As for me, I believe in American values of freedom for everyone including people who are not like me, i.e. gay or transgender.
6
Sorry Ed, China is a country where state religion is Atheism. I dont understand why you are asking them to move, instead asking atheists to move their bastion, which is China.
3
Thanks for proving my point. The Chinese state determines what is good and appropriate for its citizens just like Cruz/Trump/Republicans want to do. The Chinese state chooses to be (and enforces) anti-gay, anti-transgender, anti-religion, etc. Here in the United States a person can be gay, black, trans-gender, Catholic, atheist, agnostic, etc. and the state has no business choosing. Only in Cruz/Trump world (and now NC) does the government tell you what is appropriate (anti-gay, anti-transgender, anti-atheist). Just because the Cruz/Trump/NC state orthodoxy overlaps only some of the Chinese state orthodoxy doesn't change that they want to impose their orthodoxy. Maybe Cruz/Trump/NC would prefer the religious police of Saudi Arabia or Iran, with which they also largely align? Non-totalitarian American believe the state should have no orthodoxy and stay out of my business and that of people, even those who are not like me (e.g. gay or transgender).
Got it?
Got it?
4
Something tells me that big multinational companies from the US won't threaten to remove or not to do business in China. Can you guess why? It's green and it's power by 1.5 billion cheap labor. OK IBM, APPLE, AMAZON, FACEBOOK, etc. don't beat each other to the threat!... Then again... why bother, the communist system is not responsive to threats as states in the US. You have just shown your colors...and it's green.
4
For a country that for years asked people NOT to have children, and limited them to one child per family, now telling people that it is their duty to have children is a little rich. But that should not be a problem at all! In a country as huge as China there must be millions of kids ready to adopt. If China rules affirmatively on gay marriage - and they are a secular, atheist country, so they don't have a religion standing in their way - this would mean a lot for gay rights around the globe, as pretty much everything China does has.
Dear Wong and Piao,
I realize neither of you knows anything about China.
But a "judge" in China decides nothing.
The Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party, led by "president" Xi, makes all the rules.
It would be nice if the NY Times wouldn't perpetuate the falsehood that China is just another normal country with presidents, and laws, and justice.
What? I must be smoking Chinese opium to say that!
I realize neither of you knows anything about China.
But a "judge" in China decides nothing.
The Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party, led by "president" Xi, makes all the rules.
It would be nice if the NY Times wouldn't perpetuate the falsehood that China is just another normal country with presidents, and laws, and justice.
What? I must be smoking Chinese opium to say that!
5
I'm so sorry you can't marry yet, Sun Wenlin and Hu Mingliang. Change takes a long time, so don't give up. I grew up in a time in the US when I would not have been able to marry my partner, but now we are two married women. Please know that millions of people around the world agree that you should have this right. Sending you many good wishes and hope for change in the future.
3
To me this sounds more like a publicity stunt for NYC and other western media,
as gay marriage is a hot issue here. But what impact it will have in China is much murkier, as the most of the gay population are still in the closet and is
a long way from marriage.
as gay marriage is a hot issue here. But what impact it will have in China is much murkier, as the most of the gay population are still in the closet and is
a long way from marriage.
1
Homophobia is alive and well as a worldwide reality whether wrapped in a religious blanket, present as a lingering cultural overlay, utilized as a potent political bludgeon, or merely as the fear of other as other. It is the failure to accept our human sexuality as a complex reality comprising various interwoven preferences: orientation, biological sex, gender identity, social sex.
1
Gee, I hope California and New York ban all government business and travel with China as a result of this anti-LGBT ruling.
5
By not boycotting countries like China, India and falling over each other to do business in Iran and Cuba, American companies are showing their hypocrisy.
They want to pressure freely elected representatives in NC and elsewhere by threats of economic sanctions, but turn a blind eye to abject repression elsewhere. No wonder the average citizen is mad at the establishment and feels left out.
They want to pressure freely elected representatives in NC and elsewhere by threats of economic sanctions, but turn a blind eye to abject repression elsewhere. No wonder the average citizen is mad at the establishment and feels left out.
8
Why do we expect tyrannical countries Like China and nations in Africa to allow rights that we just recently recognized?
3
Speak for yourself. I and many millions of Americans long-ago recognized full equal rights for gay and transgender people. I understood and believed in the concept of equal rights by the time I was in Kindergarten 40+ years ago. I marched for those rights starting 20+ years ago -- even though I am neither gay nor transgender. Although I am not black, I have long understood MLK's teaching that an injustice anywhere (and to anyone) is an injustice anywhere. Even if it took you (apparently) and others longer, I am only glad you are now on board!
2
The world has moved far ahead on Gay couple marriages. China is living in primitive times. It is time for them to move ahead otherwise they will suffer the same fete as they did to limit one child per family rule many years ago.
2
Ok. Where is this silly "well Apple should pull out of China"meme coming from? There are so many cut/paste comments using this silly false equivalency. From where is this hateful nonsense coming from?
5
So much for godless communism. They're acting like fundamentalist Christians!
3
The feudal roots of these structures have largely passed. The structures, too, will pass,.but first the mythologies propping them up need to be dismantled.
China is behind the US on this, as we might expect. The tragedy is that brave and good people suffer in the meantime.
China is behind the US on this, as we might expect. The tragedy is that brave and good people suffer in the meantime.
3
Yet, when Trump slams China on trade, liberals make fun. China is not a nice country folks.
5
Liberals make fun of Trump for a great many reasons, slamming China on trade is not one of them (although perhaps they do make fun of his inane solutions.) Trump, perhaps in his egomaniacal ignorance, thinks he is the first person to notice this. The trade imbalance has been an issue for a decade or more now. Obama had several skirmishes on the issue with Xi Jin Ping just in his second term.
1
My comment on the last paragraph is that where ever you find humans you will find discrimination. My goal would be to keep the law free from other people's religious or social constraints.
2
As always, the China haters will sight the "human rights" issues of this, when in reality it is a giant step forward for the gay community to even be able to get to court and do it openly. China may not be like the western world, but is changing nonetheless. At least they jail corrupt bankers!
25
To whom those really have no idea about the Chinese ideas towards same sex marriage. Majority of the Chinese people or over 99% are still object to same sex or LGBT communities. It is already an giant step. You cannot expect a 1.4 billion people changing their ideas just in a day or a year. Keep fighting.
" At least they jail corrupt bankers!"
I think they shoot them.
I think they shoot them.
4
China also jails en masse entirely innocent people without trial, as any number of currently missing - in the care of the state apparatus - people indicates.
Just as an example, why not read of the many Taiwanese people who were just found found not guilty in Kenya of a crime, but who were then forced by Kenyan riot police, and tear gas, onto planes to China, where they are now missing (to the fury of Taiwan)? The Chinese authorities thanked Kenya for their assistance - but why were Taiwanese people who had been found not guilty by a Kenyan court deported, by force, to China?
Incidentally, as a gay guy whose friends mostly comprise gay Chinese men - including those from China proper - there are many human rights angles towards how people in China are treated, whether gay or straight, political agitators or those deemed 'troublemakers' by the authorities.
While it is of note that this was given any public mention in China, let alone that many people were allowed into the courtroom to openly observe the judge's reaction - that still doesn't negate criticism of China's treatment of her citizens; nor does it make anyone who criticises such policies a 'China hater'.
I have vociferously condemned and criticised many things that China has done - and is doing - without 'hating' China (as do my friends, who *love* their country, but *hate* their government). Conflating criticism with hatred is a facile, cheap move that is more typically turned to by the state's agents.
Just as an example, why not read of the many Taiwanese people who were just found found not guilty in Kenya of a crime, but who were then forced by Kenyan riot police, and tear gas, onto planes to China, where they are now missing (to the fury of Taiwan)? The Chinese authorities thanked Kenya for their assistance - but why were Taiwanese people who had been found not guilty by a Kenyan court deported, by force, to China?
Incidentally, as a gay guy whose friends mostly comprise gay Chinese men - including those from China proper - there are many human rights angles towards how people in China are treated, whether gay or straight, political agitators or those deemed 'troublemakers' by the authorities.
While it is of note that this was given any public mention in China, let alone that many people were allowed into the courtroom to openly observe the judge's reaction - that still doesn't negate criticism of China's treatment of her citizens; nor does it make anyone who criticises such policies a 'China hater'.
I have vociferously condemned and criticised many things that China has done - and is doing - without 'hating' China (as do my friends, who *love* their country, but *hate* their government). Conflating criticism with hatred is a facile, cheap move that is more typically turned to by the state's agents.
3
Toward the end of the article, some official says a married couple has an "important duty to have children." I find myself thinking that in this over-populated world -- and I don't mean just China! -- perhaps every married couple has at least as important a duty NOT to have children ...
23
Exactly my thought as well.
And even more so, with many more men than women in China, due to population controls, the day would come when more men would partner up, and some decide to marry.
The world should rejoice.
And even more so, with many more men than women in China, due to population controls, the day would come when more men would partner up, and some decide to marry.
The world should rejoice.
Andrew, what the heck are you talkin' about....
Nellmezzo, how long do you suggest we stop having children for?
And how does that work exactly, on a voluntary basis?
And should that not be sufficient, how about euthanasia....
Nellmezzo, how long do you suggest we stop having children for?
And how does that work exactly, on a voluntary basis?
And should that not be sufficient, how about euthanasia....
1
You mean men would become gay due to environmental causes, like some sort of sexual supply-and-demand? Seriously?
1
if governments would get out of the marriage business including tax benefits, the issue would go away i.e. just require a partnership contract to get a license QED
5
Um, no. But thanks for playing.
Putting families together and (unfortunately) taking them apart is a very complicated and often messy affair. The regulations around marriage need to stay in place; they just need to be gender neutral.
Putting families together and (unfortunately) taking them apart is a very complicated and often messy affair. The regulations around marriage need to stay in place; they just need to be gender neutral.
7
American law only applies in America. It doesn't extend to Russia, India (the worlds largest democracy) , & now China. ( the largest country by population).
4
The road to equality is long and arduous but don't give up! We haven't achieved full equality yet in America but we're making progress after decades - nay, centuries - of discrimination. Keep up the fight in China and eventually justice will prevail!
7
Appalling, but the Chinese government is there for itself, not its people, thus in the absence of an independent judiciary, this decision to continue to treat gay people as an unworthy, disliked minority just because It can, comes as no surprise.
Yet China is a country struggling to rein in its birth rate by dint of the one-child policy, so forcing gay people to marry only straight people they have no interest in, makes no sense, especially if that society regards marriage as merely a machine for the manufacture of babies. It makes even less sense if it believes romantic and physical love and mutual devotion should unite families.
These two men are in love with and devoted to each other and want to share their commitment publicly, just as a heterosexual couple might do. Denying them this simple right will not make them fall out of love and suddenly desire women. People are born a certain way and have only one life. Intentionally poisoning that life with such abrogation of dignity is not in the public interest, for socio-political as well as economic reasons.
Yet China is a country struggling to rein in its birth rate by dint of the one-child policy, so forcing gay people to marry only straight people they have no interest in, makes no sense, especially if that society regards marriage as merely a machine for the manufacture of babies. It makes even less sense if it believes romantic and physical love and mutual devotion should unite families.
These two men are in love with and devoted to each other and want to share their commitment publicly, just as a heterosexual couple might do. Denying them this simple right will not make them fall out of love and suddenly desire women. People are born a certain way and have only one life. Intentionally poisoning that life with such abrogation of dignity is not in the public interest, for socio-political as well as economic reasons.
5
When Confucian thinking is still lurking in the background, marriages without offsprings can hardly be accepted.
1
What courageous men, leading all of China toward greater human rights.
13
Would like to hear somethings about gender demographics in China, or any Asian country where male children are valued more highly. It is my understanding there is a big imbalance of males outnumbering females.
One solution to this imbalance has been warfare in past history.
One solution to this imbalance has been warfare in past history.
This is not good news for the leader of Apple. Kind of hard for Tim Cook to keep exploiting Chinese labor when it is tied to an anti gay government. Oh, I forgot, money trumps human rights and freedom .
11
the Judges in China should take serious pause and consider international precedent, namely US precedent, which only recently by the edict of a pen, erased millenias of human history and declared same sex couples may marry. This is a fundamental right we say akin to breathing air and drinking water. They are clearly being the times, even arcane to believe marriage is only between a man and a woman. No one thinks that!
1
Actually I do. I don't deny the same sex couples can experience emotional bonds but I hope we can certainly agree, and you should agree, heterosexual relationships are indispensable to our species. The relationship between our species very existence and heterosexual relationships is faultless and intrinsic. We are implicitly dependent upon them.
Earths Human Over Population is killing our planet. Any and every thing Earthlings can do to reduce or kill off Earths Human population should and must be done. China being the most populated nation on Earth should be forced by UN or international law to allow non productive joining. IMO We should even force China to be a gay nation. Just for the sake of all life on planet Earth China should welcome gay couples.
3
Appalling, but the Chinese government is there for itself, not its people, thus in the absence of an independent judiciary, this decision to continue to treat gay people as an unworthy, disliked minority just because It can, comes as no surprise.
Yet China is a country struggling to rein in its birth rate by dint of the one-child policy, so forcing gay people to marry only straight people they have no interest in, makes no sense, especially if that society regards marriage as merely a machine for the manufacture of babies. It makes even less sense if it believes romantic and physical love and mutual devotion should unite families.
These two men are in love with and devoted to each other and want to share their commitment publicly, just as a heterosexual couple might do. Denying them this simple right will not make them fall out of love and suddenly desire women. People are born a certain way and have only one life. Intentionally poisoning that life with such abrogation of dignity is not in the public interest, for socio-political as well as economic reasons.
Yet China is a country struggling to rein in its birth rate by dint of the one-child policy, so forcing gay people to marry only straight people they have no interest in, makes no sense, especially if that society regards marriage as merely a machine for the manufacture of babies. It makes even less sense if it believes romantic and physical love and mutual devotion should unite families.
These two men are in love with and devoted to each other and want to share their commitment publicly, just as a heterosexual couple might do. Denying them this simple right will not make them fall out of love and suddenly desire women. People are born a certain way and have only one life. Intentionally poisoning that life with such abrogation of dignity is not in the public interest, for socio-political as well as economic reasons.
12
The Chinese government is starting to feel political control slip away from its fingers. It is hard to maintain an economically open society that is also politically closed, but the Chinese government is trying.
Through appealing to nationalism and traditionalism, the Chinese government is trying to maintain conformity in its population. "Unconventional" people like gay people are a challenge to the narrow, manufactured social order China wants its people to buy into.
It has been the same in the West. Gay people were historically associated with "weird" or "bohemian" values that challenged the social mainstream. The Chinese government fears that as people refuse to conform in their lifestyles, so they might refuse to conform in their politics.
Through appealing to nationalism and traditionalism, the Chinese government is trying to maintain conformity in its population. "Unconventional" people like gay people are a challenge to the narrow, manufactured social order China wants its people to buy into.
It has been the same in the West. Gay people were historically associated with "weird" or "bohemian" values that challenged the social mainstream. The Chinese government fears that as people refuse to conform in their lifestyles, so they might refuse to conform in their politics.
1
Sending love, hope and strength to all my LGBT brothers and sisters in China!
21
NC might inquire as to how many socially concerned mutiny national corps will stop expanding in China.
6
The progress that much of the world has made on gays is unbelievable. From prison to marriage in less than my lifetime
14
"Progress"? I hope you don't mean "improvement". Check your history. Every civilization, just before it's final demise, homosexuality figured prominently and not before. Could the "Final Judgement" day be far off? Never going to come? When are people going to wake up. Don't confuse wholesale moral bankruptcy with egalitarianism.
Hah hah hah, "the end is nigh." No, gay people gaining the right to marry isn't the precursor to the end of the world. That's superstitious nonsense.
1
Will Tim Cooke stop Apple products being manufactured in China now?
16
What does morality have to do with making money?
So I assume all US based corporations will now pull out of China?
16
Again, with this meme. Did you guys get this from Breitbart? Drudge?
1
So Bob, I assume you're going to boycott all chinese made goods....
1
They were told that "married people have a duty to have children". Does China or the world need any more mouths to feed?
Good luck to them and I hope they are allowed to get married.
Good luck to them and I hope they are allowed to get married.
17
Cue the statements from Apple, Paypal, etc. that they will be pulling out of the PRC.
23
"We always try to find middle ground, and we considered it," he said. "Should we go there and make a statement from the stage? You consider those things, and then you realize that's just playing into their hands. That's not going to hurt enough — you need to hurt them economically."
Steven Van Zandt of the E Street Band on why Springsteen canceled their North Carolina concert
Okay Stevie, step up to the mike. We're waiting.
Steven Van Zandt of the E Street Band on why Springsteen canceled their North Carolina concert
Okay Stevie, step up to the mike. We're waiting.
1
And yet, Google is crawling back to PRC.
I totally support these 2 to continue what they do, but you cannot cue things from other sectors, it is totally not related. Stop hating!
It is a giant step ahead and it will be better, in future. Hopefully, China can be more open about things like that and let people truly enjoy the Human Rights they deserve.
I totally support these 2 to continue what they do, but you cannot cue things from other sectors, it is totally not related. Stop hating!
It is a giant step ahead and it will be better, in future. Hopefully, China can be more open about things like that and let people truly enjoy the Human Rights they deserve.
Hmmm. So If our Protect Religious Freedom movement against gay marriage and providing gays equal protection rights are unhappy with the recent Supreme Court rulings protecting such rights, perhaps they could relocate to China where they could exercise their freedom to discriminate. .
7
But, ironically, not their ability to exercise their religion.
1
When will Apple and all those like mindedAmerican companies start boycotting China and refuse to sell their products there? After all if we boycott North Carolina and threaten to boycott Georgia, to be consistent let's cut out China as well.
12
They will not do so for several reasons. One is that the market size is huge in China. Another is they need the cheaper labor of China, and lax environmental standards, to keep production costs at a minimum to maximize profits and satisfy shareholders.
1
False equivalency. But to your small mind I bet that sounded really clever.
It wast not.
It wast not.
1
You and I are free to boycott Chinese products any time we wish. If enough of us would do that then companies like Apple, which make their products in China, would respond.
1
A duty to have children is an odd argument in a country that, until recently, had a strict "one child" policy. I would actually expect China to appreciate the inability to have children in a society where population is a problem.
I'm always struck by the resistance to acceptance of homosexuality in relatively secular cultures. In America the singular argument against homosexuality is Biblical: it goes against "God's plan". Does the argument in secular cultures simply boil down to some esoteric societal responsibility to carry on the human race by having children? Hmmm. If so, that's weird to me because it's not even a standard male-female couples are held to. I know of no society in which couples are made to pledge to have children in order to marry.
I'm always struck by the resistance to acceptance of homosexuality in relatively secular cultures. In America the singular argument against homosexuality is Biblical: it goes against "God's plan". Does the argument in secular cultures simply boil down to some esoteric societal responsibility to carry on the human race by having children? Hmmm. If so, that's weird to me because it's not even a standard male-female couples are held to. I know of no society in which couples are made to pledge to have children in order to marry.
29
How does a country can appreciate a family for having the inability to have children? Yes. ability to procreate and raise the children and able to continue our human race to the next generation is a basic tenant living in the earth. If we forget that basic thing, we can look into animal kingdom and relearn from them. That is the sole reason why Govt gives tax reduction to married couples. But somehow in the west, because of social engineering there is a strong belief among people that reduction population in the west, will reduce the overall population in the world. They are simply blinded from the fact that decrease in population in the west are replaced by immigrants from other parts of the world.
3
I think you're allowing the religious argument to dominate your concerns and it shouldn't. One can be against same sex marriage and not be religious just as one can be gay and against same sex marriage. Same sex relationships are fundamental different from opposite sex relationships and if you're confused I'm sorry but do you want a snarky comment like ask your parents? Really? I'm sorry I'm blunt but there really is a difference and it should be quite obvious and just because no society requires couples to pledge to have children is not a strong argument either. Ms. Bonita's' argument at the Supreme Court that same sex relationships are the foundation of our society was so deeply flawed I'm still in awe it was accepted as truth. Children are the foundation of our society. While societies don't make us pledge to stay alive yet we do and also while societies don't make use pledge to produce children very often opposite sex couples, the only kind that can, do produce children. How wonderful.
Furthermore China has a HUGE problem with children (particularly girls) needing adoption. I am sure there are many gay people in China who would love nothing more than to get married and adopt one of these children in need. If the Chinese government was thinking 'logically' it would therefore support gay marriage. That, of course, is not the issue. The issue is bigotry. Never underestimate bigotry. Bigots will justify their bigotry on religion, state needs, or anything else that makes them feel better about themselves and/or helps support (in their minds) the correctness of their bigotry.
1
China does not have the supremo set of principles as the US constitution has been to US and its judicial system. The law in China is what Beijing says the society is to be governed. The judicial system in China is just a charade, a show more like a farce, for the benefit of western governments and media, just to tell the rest of the world that China has "a rule of law."