"It shows that there is a fairer way to identify gifted children."
No, it shows there is a way to select a group of children who are more balanced racially. That was the goal, and the testing was changed until the results were as desired. Perhaps the new pool was as gifted - whatever that means - as the old; perhaps not.
Eliminating vitally important verbal skills from the criteria is only "fair" to those who don't have them. I don't argue with the social utility of the program, but let's not pretend it's science.
No, it shows there is a way to select a group of children who are more balanced racially. That was the goal, and the testing was changed until the results were as desired. Perhaps the new pool was as gifted - whatever that means - as the old; perhaps not.
Eliminating vitally important verbal skills from the criteria is only "fair" to those who don't have them. I don't argue with the social utility of the program, but let's not pretend it's science.
84
As the parent of an African American adult daughter whose k-9 years were in academic magnet or gifted and talented public school programs, I find this article absolutely correct regarding how recommendations from school personnel fail to identify gifted students; and, that too many parents do not know how to navigate the system; often having been victims of the systems themselves and deferring to "authority figures." This continues to be problematic. It is my view that my daughter's academic success was parental advocacy. I was always present at her schools. I witnessed too many Black and Brown children not succeed in these settings because their social skills or behaviors were not deemed appropriate or acceptable, by white social structures or values, a totally subjective conclusion, having absolutely nothing to do with academic abilities. This continues to be the legacy and practice of racism and classism in America.
57
Half Truth. If you go the linked study, it is clear that the increase in numbers of black and brown kids is not due solely to eliminating parental or teacher bias. The study says that "disadvantaged" kids only needed to score 115 on the initial screening test, whereas "non-disadvantaged" kids had to score 130. Assuming this test was normed to 100 being average, that means the presumably black / brown kids only had to score in the top 16%, whereas the presumably white/ asian kids had to score in the top 2%. Subjective bias in the screeners in the old system was probably a part, that is why standardized testing and the SAT's are so important But clearly, as with all attempts to 'close the gap' to date, a large chunk of the result is achieved with Affirmative Action double standards. The new system if more objective, in that clear standards are set, but they are still separate standards, and not clearly any more fair than the old subjective method.
69
As the mother of two Afro-Latino sons, I saw the biases described in the article too often. Their scores in national tests brought the attention of programs such as Johns Hopkins but individual teachers had the power to stop requests from other teachers to provide gifted or more challenging educational experiences. I saw how parents of non-white children had to advocate constantly with the system to get the recognition and attention their children deserved in every school my sons attended. Children that lack parental advocacy go unnoticed at best and more often suffer the consequences of the low expectation cycle of our educational systems. This article brings up the urgency in changing structural practices that serve to preserve the status quo of great disparities in educational outcomes.
35
Overlooked in this article is a very important subtext - the use of a nonverbal math based metric for evaluating people for the gifted program.
Most people invariably judge others based on how they speak, but that is loaded with so many issues of identity and personal history that it's bound to be rife with bias. The same is true of verbal exams. I remember I was evaluated for my language skills as a child and I was to put in a room with a psychologist and told to identify farm implements!
Math can be a powerful tool for racial equality if we give it the respect it deserves. Invariably though it will be difficult for some people, particularly influential people to accept. A system free of prejudice is invariably to the disadvantage of those with in power.
Most people invariably judge others based on how they speak, but that is loaded with so many issues of identity and personal history that it's bound to be rife with bias. The same is true of verbal exams. I remember I was evaluated for my language skills as a child and I was to put in a room with a psychologist and told to identify farm implements!
Math can be a powerful tool for racial equality if we give it the respect it deserves. Invariably though it will be difficult for some people, particularly influential people to accept. A system free of prejudice is invariably to the disadvantage of those with in power.
18
I have 3 adult kids, the oldest was obviously gifted when he was a toddler, the middle one was a very slow starter (later found out she was bored to death), the youngest had severe dyslexia, severe ADHD, and other disabilities. The oldest was in gifted programs from the start and saw them as extra work until he was in high school and started their new gifted program with a gifted teacher and mentor. The middle kid wasn't recognized as gifted until we moved to a different school district and her brilliance in Math and Science were recognized and she was allowed to take University classes and accelerated H.S. science classes. The youngest, with many interventions and Individual Education Plans was found to be gifted as well but formal testing would never be able to show this due to his severe learning disabilities.
The 1 characteristic they all shared was to never give up because their parents expected them to keep trying. We also exposed them to many different experiences and encouraged them to try different things to see if this was their "area." The oldest is now a University Prof and published author, the middle is a Chemical Engineer (who had to fight a low IQ test score in 1st grade) and the youngest is an owner operator Semi Truck Driver and owns and runs the family farm, he is also very creative and mechanical genius. They had their setbacks but they learned from them......the youngest took awhile with repeated lessons. The point is they got a chance to bloom
The 1 characteristic they all shared was to never give up because their parents expected them to keep trying. We also exposed them to many different experiences and encouraged them to try different things to see if this was their "area." The oldest is now a University Prof and published author, the middle is a Chemical Engineer (who had to fight a low IQ test score in 1st grade) and the youngest is an owner operator Semi Truck Driver and owns and runs the family farm, he is also very creative and mechanical genius. They had their setbacks but they learned from them......the youngest took awhile with repeated lessons. The point is they got a chance to bloom
31
Truly gifted children are usually discovered early in school and someone keeps their eyes on them. There are not as many truly gifted children as is commonly thought. It is difficult to keep such children from being noticed. Like LA Mom says they also need to work hard too.
15
This is an important reminder for opponents of the SAT and other standardized tests that such tests have historically been the best way for bright Jews, Asians, poor whites, Hispanics and blacks to prove their merits.
27
I like test-based admission for programs like this, similar to New York City's SHSAT, but so much of this comes down to parental involvement. Whether or not an 8-year-old is placed in a special class, the highest returns to elementary and secondary education will go to those students whose parents are demanding and involved. In many places, for complicated reasons, these students are not black or Hispanic.
New York City is illustrative. Asian-Americans in NYC have the highest rate of poverty among any ethnic/racial group, and at Stuyvesant High School, which is only 12% black and Hispanic, and over 50% Asian, around 50% of students qualify for a free or subsidized lunch. So what's the difference? I posit it's a cultural ethic that demands significant commitment from children at an early age. And so much of this commitment happens outside of the classroom, whether it's homework, reading books, keeping the TV and iPad away, finding free mentorship and tutoring programs (which are definitely out there)...the list goes on.
New York City is illustrative. Asian-Americans in NYC have the highest rate of poverty among any ethnic/racial group, and at Stuyvesant High School, which is only 12% black and Hispanic, and over 50% Asian, around 50% of students qualify for a free or subsidized lunch. So what's the difference? I posit it's a cultural ethic that demands significant commitment from children at an early age. And so much of this commitment happens outside of the classroom, whether it's homework, reading books, keeping the TV and iPad away, finding free mentorship and tutoring programs (which are definitely out there)...the list goes on.
54
We Asians value education and if other group values education as much as we do than we long longer have to make excuse for their short comings. Too many excuses.
As Jerome write "Ask any Asian male applying to elite colleges and you will hear about real, genuine racial bias."
As Jerome write "Ask any Asian male applying to elite colleges and you will hear about real, genuine racial bias."
30
I was once PTA president of a suburban New York school. I was horrified at what I learned. There was certain group of moms who were able to hang around the school in the daytime as volunteers. Their children inevitably seemed to fill the gifted and talented, extra tutoring, Suzuki violin, etc. programs before the working moms even uncovered the crumpled flyers in their children's lunch boxes and backpacks. It was an inherently unfair system, and I discovered how naive I was...
34
The smartest guy I know, now probably retired, dropped out at 12 because he was ready for college and his middle school material bored him out of his mind. His parents were teachers, lower middle income, I suppose. He went on to become a chess master. He once beat Bobby Fischer in a simultaneous exhibition game. But chess is only a hobby for most, not a career. He spent his later years doing factory work. He could have been an executive, journalist or professor.
The job market destroys people when it doesn't give people a chance too. After a gifted person gets an education, his or her career can destroyed by a recession, divorce and joblessness. That happened to more than one person I heard of. How much is talent valued?
The job market destroys people when it doesn't give people a chance too. After a gifted person gets an education, his or her career can destroyed by a recession, divorce and joblessness. That happened to more than one person I heard of. How much is talent valued?
18
I don't know what "gifted" or "genius" means but I can understand how allowing parents and teachers to select who should take these so-called tests would be problematic. Why not allow everyone to take the test and let the chips fall where they may? On a curious note, are there any Asians in Broward County? Whatever. I will say that Florida is not a place that I would raise children as the quality of the schools seem suspect.
21
You're right to find the quality of education in Florida suspect. Within Broward county alone there is a huge disparity in school performance. However, there are incredible schools there as well. The biggest problem with schools there, from my experience as a student and working in the public school system, is that if you aren't in a wealthy area (upper-middle or above), your child could end up in a low performing or "average" school. And average in Florida is failing by, say, Massachusetts' standards.
That said, I'm happy to see them taking a step in the right direction. It will save children that are bored in their classes the pain of suffering years of stagnation.
That said, I'm happy to see them taking a step in the right direction. It will save children that are bored in their classes the pain of suffering years of stagnation.
4
Will that gifted student identified in 3rd grade decide to put in the 3-4 hours of work every night in high school required to succeed? That is the secret to success. Nearly impossible without a good support system.
17
And that's something that many public schools are working go help with. Wealthy public schools have elaborate tutoring programs, and SAT prep built into their curriculum. Non-profit programs and state initiatives are needed in lower-income programs to help supplement for that, and to motivate a child who can't help that their parent works 2-3 part-time jobs because they weren't lucky enough to be told they needed a college degree. Generational poverty happens, and the way to help break that is social support.
5
Every kid is gifted. But in America and in lot of other the countries the skin color is also considered as a gift. So our vision is impaired and we cannot see the gift.
9
What a wonderfully simple, practical idea.
My school district, the Los Angeles Unified School District, would never consider it. First of all, it does not appear that any district vendor could make obscene amounts of money off of it, and furthermore, it would surely offend someone, somewhere, for some reason. Last, but not least, it is practical and works. Nah, LAUSD would never do it.
My school district, the Los Angeles Unified School District, would never consider it. First of all, it does not appear that any district vendor could make obscene amounts of money off of it, and furthermore, it would surely offend someone, somewhere, for some reason. Last, but not least, it is practical and works. Nah, LAUSD would never do it.
16
Great article. I repeated experienced this, even as a poor White student in the midwest. So many gifted students are overlooked, based on ... Result to society: A Loss for all.
9
Two weeks after I started the 8th grade, in a 95% white school in the early '50s, I was promoted to the 9th grade, but denied the opportunity to physically attend the 9th grade until the following year. I was 12 years old and my parents were told I wasn't old enough to attend classes with 9th graders so I was made to leave school. My grandmother was incensed that they would not let me go to school because I was "too smart." So she and my grandfather drove us to Flint, Michigan, and bought a brand new Buick off the assembly line. My grandfather returned to San Diego and my grandmother and I drove all over the eastern seaboard and part of the south for three months, visiting her friends, before returning to San Diego. My grandmother was, by observation, "white" so when we were in the south, she'd go into "white only" restaurants to get us food "to go" and we'd find a park and have a picnic. It was one of the most educational experiences of my life. That is how this racist country treated gifted black students in 1954.
57
All human beings are created equal and there is no differentiation on the basis of color. It is too superficial to judge a child's capacity based on a few millimeters thick skin...
6
This has been going on forever. I experienced it as a kid in the '80s. The teachers look for a 'type' and those are the ones in the advanced classes (white or Asian, nerdy, play video games, male). I am a Hispanic female. I had this all the way through Junior High, until the teachers got so frustrated that I had all the answers and was 'disturbing' the class that they placed me in the AP classes in High School. I graduated 3rd in my class with the most difficult classes (Cal II, Linear Algebra, AP Chem, AP Physics, AP Biology, etc). (I was so lucky to have amazing high school teachers!)
As I said, going on forever. The loss of talent at a young age is enormous.
As I said, going on forever. The loss of talent at a young age is enormous.
62
My sons are now 32 and 28, both extremely "gifted". In what? Math? Science? Writing? Not any one thing, really. but they are gifted in the only thing that matters in the real, adult world: self-worth and self knowledge. Any child who is given the rudiments of math and reading can wind up teaching themselves as far they want to go.
My sons both had a few friends from Hunter when they were growing up. One girl said by the time they were in 2nd grade, each child knew the IQ of everyone else in their class (and their own—BAD BAD BAD IDEA!), and where they stood in the "hierarchy". UGH!
My sons both had a few friends from Hunter when they were growing up. One girl said by the time they were in 2nd grade, each child knew the IQ of everyone else in their class (and their own—BAD BAD BAD IDEA!), and where they stood in the "hierarchy". UGH!
13
When the cold, hard numbers of white and asian proficiency and black and latino deficiency remain unchanged after decades of billions of dollars spent trying to improve scores, the last remaining refuge is one more 'theory' attempting to explain away reality.
51
And that cold, hard reality is primarily cultural. If you grow up in an environment where no one reads to you--especially in English--and the vocabulary is a fifth of that in more privileged circumstances, you are indeed unlikely to get far and will keep getting farther behind.
23
Nonsense! I taught many years in public schools and many of the outstanding asian students in my classes came from families where the parents spoke very little english. That 'theory' has long been discredited.
25
Had you read the article carefully, you would have gleaned that the the cold, hard numbers, based on universal testing, actually show that the gap isn't really a gap. The article was clear that there is a significant difference in the number of Black & Latino students who are identified as gifted when all students are tested rather than just those students that teachers think should be tested. When the identification of students who are gifted is narrowed down to those first identified for testing by someone, rather than having all students tested, that's when racism is shown to rear it's ugly head.
15
What an interesting and important idea. One thing not covered here, but in the original report, is the potential for negative peer pressure to affect gifted minority children in regular classes, resulting in underperformance.
It is also interesting that the gifted classes used the same textbooks and covered the same materials as the regular classes. But the gifted classes moved through the required material faster, because the children were more capable than the non-gifted of absorbing the material and then covering extra or enrichment materials.
We can only wonder how many of those children might also simply be bored in regular classes, which the nongifted found challenging, but they simply found too easy.
It would be good to see the practices discussed here used throughout the country.
It is also interesting that the gifted classes used the same textbooks and covered the same materials as the regular classes. But the gifted classes moved through the required material faster, because the children were more capable than the non-gifted of absorbing the material and then covering extra or enrichment materials.
We can only wonder how many of those children might also simply be bored in regular classes, which the nongifted found challenging, but they simply found too easy.
It would be good to see the practices discussed here used throughout the country.
19
Many of the comments posted here are tainted by racial and educational biases.
Racial bias is self-explanatory. By educational bias I'm referring to prejudice toward certain fields of study as being the main and in some cases the sole determinant of a student's giftedness.
I think words usage and sentence building are as indicative of giftedness as any mathematical formula.
I think of genius when I recall the words that Anatole France wrote many years ago, and those words were: "We should ... govern men as they are and not as what we'd like them to be." Excerpted from the book, Les Dieux ont soif, a novel by Anatole France.
Racial bias is self-explanatory. By educational bias I'm referring to prejudice toward certain fields of study as being the main and in some cases the sole determinant of a student's giftedness.
I think words usage and sentence building are as indicative of giftedness as any mathematical formula.
I think of genius when I recall the words that Anatole France wrote many years ago, and those words were: "We should ... govern men as they are and not as what we'd like them to be." Excerpted from the book, Les Dieux ont soif, a novel by Anatole France.
11
While I agree we should not restrict the criteria to narrow fields of study, I would point out that word usage and sentence building are actually not good indicators. The way we talk and write are usually the product of our surroundings. A person coming from a college-educated, middle class family will usually score higher on that kind of test than someone who comes from a lower-income or blue-collar background.
Often, what we think of as "well-spoken" or "eloquent" is simply a measure of how much a certain type of speech or writing pattern is socially-approved. One gains a broad vocabulary by being exposed to a broad vocabulary. If we are trying to give kids from disadvantaged grounds a fairer chance, we should avoid these kinds of metrics.
Often, what we think of as "well-spoken" or "eloquent" is simply a measure of how much a certain type of speech or writing pattern is socially-approved. One gains a broad vocabulary by being exposed to a broad vocabulary. If we are trying to give kids from disadvantaged grounds a fairer chance, we should avoid these kinds of metrics.
4
Or we could offer an enriched and challenging curriculum to every child, provide the after school, summer, weekend support they need to succeed and end up with kids who achieve to their max. We could teach teachers to recognize the different ways kids learn, the different skill sets they possess. And we could make recess an hour long, throw in vigorous physical activity, have great recreational opportunities in every neighborhood. Hire more music teachers, rent some instruments. We'd have to disguise the cost in the local budget as Senior Citizen Enrichment (we'd give each kid a Senior pen-pal) and it might pass.
27
Is that really the best way to spend limited resources when so many jobs don't require anything presented after perhaps the eighth grade? While I'll agree that we should identify the best and brightest without regard to skin color, we must also acknowledge that half of any group will measure below average for that sample. A better method would be to expand the ASVAB and use the results, coordinated with business needs, to place kids into tracks that feed into the jobs that businesses need filled.
2
You don't need to "disguise" the cost as senior enrichment. Intergenerational programs, including pen pal correspondences between children and seniors, have been found to be extremely beneficial to both.
3
NYC public schools--including elite school like Hunter that go straight through to high school--screen for giftedness at age 4. It is simply absurd to think that anything about a child's intelligence or "talents" can be gleaned at such a young age. What's more, affluent white parents who don't want to shell out for private school routinely have their tots tutored for the so-called G&T test. So what you find (at Hunter, Nest, etc.) is a disproportionate number of children of wealthy families who have decided to game the system to their own economic advantage. Until multiple choice tests are removed from the equation--and designations are based on teacher recommendations (every school could nominate five kids a year?)--there will be nothing fair about who gets into these classes.
1
And if, statistically, there are six, or seven kids that year who should be in gifted programs for five spots? You really think it is fair to that one or two kids who are left out just because they were born the wrong year? And you don't think teachers might be influenced into giving those spots into whoever's parents are going to give them the hardest time?
9
No. The specialized HS exams are fair. Depending on teaches to recommend students that are gifted is cause for trouble.
17
My son, who at 5 years old (he is now 25) in Cobble hill, Brooklyn tested for the gifted program. I knew he was smart, maybe not genius material, but he would receive a more challenging education in a public school gifted program. When asked by the tester, What is that building on the corner?" He said, "It's where mom buys beer." He did NOT get in, and the tester was very concerned with his response, enough so, that she pulled me aside after the test. If that wasn't a smart response, I don't now what is! I laughed all the way home, and we enrolled him, at a stretch, in private school where he did very well.
11
President Obama, responding to criticism of his Supreme Court nominee, nailed the question everyone with the authority to determine institutional access should prioritize: "How do I make sure that I’m intentional throughout that process so that the talent of every American, and every potential candidate, gets a fair look?” There is so little process-based thinking, self-reflection, and intentional net-casting among the gatekeepers of opportunity that ensure equitable access, educational or otherwise.
As a precocious black kid reading way above grade level, I was rejected from my almost exclusively white elementary school's gifted program. It was only my mother's relentless persistence that got me into the program the next year. Later, after changing schools, it was only the luck of having met one of teachers in the school's gifted program through a summer program that allowed me to be tested and integrated. Went on to graduate near the top of my high school class and go to an Ivy, which I wouldn't have been able to do had I not had the weighted GPA of honors courses. It's ridiculous how people of color's entire futures depend on the endurance to work twice as hard to overcome recognition biases and depend on the racial benevolence of others just to be noticed.
As a precocious black kid reading way above grade level, I was rejected from my almost exclusively white elementary school's gifted program. It was only my mother's relentless persistence that got me into the program the next year. Later, after changing schools, it was only the luck of having met one of teachers in the school's gifted program through a summer program that allowed me to be tested and integrated. Went on to graduate near the top of my high school class and go to an Ivy, which I wouldn't have been able to do had I not had the weighted GPA of honors courses. It's ridiculous how people of color's entire futures depend on the endurance to work twice as hard to overcome recognition biases and depend on the racial benevolence of others just to be noticed.
73
Well, that is a fact about working twice as hard, but there is also the long view, which is the hardest path to pave. If enough people who have worked that hard start filling the work force, you have raised the bar for everyone else, and stereotypes will, by the sheer numbers, crumble and fade away. What is happening academically now for minorities is what happened in the 50s and 60s in sports—the best and the brightest float to the top, and make the greatest champions. There are many precedents for your generation to follow!
Used to be that parochial schools would pick up the slack for the brightest students and children of the working man. Now, the top Catholic high schools are elitist and exclusive schools for the rich only-- all the while the catholic population dwindles.
May father put five of us at one time through a Catholic elementary school where we got an excellent and disciplined education.
May father put five of us at one time through a Catholic elementary school where we got an excellent and disciplined education.
11
I was in gifted programs from elementary school, although at my school they were limited to occasional Mondays doing fun and vaguely educational things apart from the rest of the grade, and a few summer classes that were only open to "gifted and talented" students. More than anything else, they were an ego-booster. A caveat here is that I am white and come from an upper-middle-class family with two parents who have graduate degrees, so I can't speak to the impact that programs like that can have on disadvantaged minority or low income students. However, I don't particularly agree with the whole concept of gifted programs. Were the very slight benefits, if any, that I got from the extra instruction worth the fuctional effect of labeling everyone not in the program "not gifted"? Students at every level should be getting the best instruction possible, and diverting resources to the kids who scored well on a test in third grade doesn't sit right with me.
11
human intelligence is on a spectrum - a few are not as smart as the average, most are in the middle (average) and a few are smarter than the average. Those children that are actually smarter than the majority are at higher risk of depression and suicide if they are not lucky enough to have some sort of challenging program, whether it's private school or a GATE-type program in public school. Shocking, I know.
12
Not only is your statement shocking, it is untrue. There is no evidence that segregating children by purported intelligence has any long term effect on their mental health. It is true that it takes a certain amount of intellectual capacity to be neurotic, in that one has to have some imagination to worry about real hazards as well as potential yet unlikely things that could go wrong. Smart children do not suffer from suicidal depression because they are bored.
There is no evidence that the "extras" you received as a gifted student had any long term benefit to you or to any minority participants there may have been who were so designated..
1
This would be worth a larger article.
My kids (we're white) attend a school that's 70% AA. My kids are now high-schoolers and i've known all of their friends since 1st grade.
It would break your heart (it does mine) to see the black kids begin to peel off in 6th grade, 7th grade...a few as late as 9th....into the "black" classes or the black academies while the white kids segregate themselves into AP classes....in many cases, its just teens being teens...kids want to be with their friends and if their friends hang out in the easier, going-nowhere classes, well, that's where they hang out too.
Couple that with teachers who are amazing but truly do view the black kids differently than the whites...having higher expectations for the white kids, for example. And i"m talking about even with the African-American teachers!
It's crazy and i'm not sure how to end it.
My kids (we're white) attend a school that's 70% AA. My kids are now high-schoolers and i've known all of their friends since 1st grade.
It would break your heart (it does mine) to see the black kids begin to peel off in 6th grade, 7th grade...a few as late as 9th....into the "black" classes or the black academies while the white kids segregate themselves into AP classes....in many cases, its just teens being teens...kids want to be with their friends and if their friends hang out in the easier, going-nowhere classes, well, that's where they hang out too.
Couple that with teachers who are amazing but truly do view the black kids differently than the whites...having higher expectations for the white kids, for example. And i"m talking about even with the African-American teachers!
It's crazy and i'm not sure how to end it.
65
Check out the THREAD program in Baltimore where the bottom 10 percent of 9th graders from public high school are assigned to 5 thread volunteers from J Hopkins. A 10 year contract is signed by both the 9th grader and the volunteers, who do everything from getting them up to go to school, getting nutrition, not EVER letting them think they will not succeed, etc.. The college success rate for these minority kids that their teachers write off is incredible.
2
Could it be that the kids and teachers are reacting to real information in their expectations of themselves and their students?
This article advocates for the utility of objective IQ testing to identify the talented free from bias. OK, great, an early 20th century idea that still has great utility. But what do you say when objective tests, like the Armed Forces Qualification Test or the SAT or ACT or the screening tests for NYC public schools returns similar patterns to the ones you observe?
This article advocates for the utility of objective IQ testing to identify the talented free from bias. OK, great, an early 20th century idea that still has great utility. But what do you say when objective tests, like the Armed Forces Qualification Test or the SAT or ACT or the screening tests for NYC public schools returns similar patterns to the ones you observe?
7
The kids with high IQs are bored. School is too easy for them, so they tune out. Even a "gifted" class is too slow at that age, and without positive reinforcement there is no incentive to perform.
22
First of all, I think that this article undercuts the importance of how environment shapes a child. I'm non-white, but my parents had the capability to cut into their leisure/working hours to give me additional work every day at a higher level than I was getting at school. This is simply not possible for children growing up in underprivileged households, and I recognize that growing up on the right side of the economic disparity in the U.S. helped me get a leg up from a young age.
However, I also think that gifted programs have a place, even at a young age. Like many commenters have mentioned, I found a lot of schoolwork easy to the point where it was disengaging. One of my teachers actively shamed me for finishing work "too quickly", so I wasn't terribly enthusiastic about school in general. My favorite days were when I was at the district's gifted program rather than my normal classes, where I felt both challenged and humbled - I made far more mistakes in the gifted classes, for one thing, which I consider a good thing to have experienced.
So I think ultimately, there needs to be a fuller agenda on how to educate young children, one that ensures that kids are both challenged at an appropriate level and also have a supportive environment to flourish. I was lucky to come out on top in both aspects, but children who only have one or neither of these factors is in their favor is being set-up for a lifetime of being behind.
However, I also think that gifted programs have a place, even at a young age. Like many commenters have mentioned, I found a lot of schoolwork easy to the point where it was disengaging. One of my teachers actively shamed me for finishing work "too quickly", so I wasn't terribly enthusiastic about school in general. My favorite days were when I was at the district's gifted program rather than my normal classes, where I felt both challenged and humbled - I made far more mistakes in the gifted classes, for one thing, which I consider a good thing to have experienced.
So I think ultimately, there needs to be a fuller agenda on how to educate young children, one that ensures that kids are both challenged at an appropriate level and also have a supportive environment to flourish. I was lucky to come out on top in both aspects, but children who only have one or neither of these factors is in their favor is being set-up for a lifetime of being behind.
22
Yes, this article makes it easy to mock the people who are severely allergic to standardized testing, which here seems to be the only route to an equitable outcome. But two points:
1. In earlier stages like 2nd grade, it makes sense that adults are not as good as a standard instrument - they have less history with the pupil to base a judgment on.
2. The test which seems to help is a "nonverbal" one, whatever that means. Note that it classifies students as gifted where the IQ test (very verbal) does not. Somehow I don't think it's just arithmetic problems.
The problem with this article is that the author doesn't explain what a "short, non-verbal" test is, or the mechanics of why this should be a better way of assessing seven-year-olds' potential.
1. In earlier stages like 2nd grade, it makes sense that adults are not as good as a standard instrument - they have less history with the pupil to base a judgment on.
2. The test which seems to help is a "nonverbal" one, whatever that means. Note that it classifies students as gifted where the IQ test (very verbal) does not. Somehow I don't think it's just arithmetic problems.
The problem with this article is that the author doesn't explain what a "short, non-verbal" test is, or the mechanics of why this should be a better way of assessing seven-year-olds' potential.
9
The IQ test is not "very verbal". It has both verbal and non-verbal sub scales (e.g., visual spatial ability). The "short non-verbal test" is a screening tool. If you score high enough on it, you then take the IQ test (i.e., WISC) to qualify for the gifted programs. The IQ is the qualifier, not the "short non-verbal" test, as it should be. The WISC is a reliable and valid test across race, age, region, and country, when properly used with scaled norms. It cost money to take it so the "short non verbal" test is necessary for preliminary screening.
10
I assume it's just a lack of rigorous terminology in the article. I have to think that "nonverbal" doesn't really mean unrelated to language, but that it is administered in writing rather than orally, thus cutting down on some of the bias teachers were showing in their observations of students.
3
Your assumptions are incorrect. Look it up in the dictionary. Anything involving words is verbal, it does not mean the words are spoken.
The Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children (WISC), developed by David Wechsler, is an individually administered intelligence test for children between the ages of 6 and 16 inclusive that can be completed without reading or writing.
The Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children (WISC), developed by David Wechsler, is an individually administered intelligence test for children between the ages of 6 and 16 inclusive that can be completed without reading or writing.
1
My kids have been tested for gifted programs in 3 different school systems. I don't believe any of the systems used IQ as a variable (which I think is good). However, the testing itself is really nothing much and much of the gifted programs is made up of edu-babble, such as multiple intelligences, etc. The classes are not much more challenging, they just work on projects, and the kids are entertained. As parents we were not impressed. My daughter says the gifted program in her 3rd grade class was the only thing she liked the whole year (bad teachers at that school), so there was that. We would have loved a more challenging curriculum for our kids, but you won't find it in 'gifted' programs. After talking with our younger sons we took them out of the program.
10
It is time for our society to invest in universal gifted education in elementary, middle and high school. The NYC DOE (one of the largest public school systems in the nation) has steadfastly ignored gifted education for decades. The bright spots in the G&T program are entirely the result of parent agitation, advocacy and fund raising (yes, the programs are predominantly white and Asian). Thanks to these researchers, we now have an excellent template from the 2005 Broward County system that provides an unbiased screening mechanism.
7
Before we "invest" in universal gifted education, how about if someone does research to determine if it does any good, although that would be a first in the educational field.
The Broward County School system, if you actually read the article, doesn't assert that the children who were in the gifted program received any benefit in terms of outcomes. The whole article was about the fact that most programs discriminate against minorities. Not that minorities or white students, for that matter, have more successful outcomes for having participated.
In the educational realm, if something sounds good, it is promoted as being a good thing to spend money on. This is similar to the current advocacy for universal preschool. the overwhelming evidence of HeadStart is that it is a waste of time and money, and that there are no benefits to the children. Anyone who believes that a three or four year old should be in a classroom for six hours of the day doesn't know anything about children.. Even five year olds are better off in a half day program. Which we would know if anyone did any research.
The Broward County School system, if you actually read the article, doesn't assert that the children who were in the gifted program received any benefit in terms of outcomes. The whole article was about the fact that most programs discriminate against minorities. Not that minorities or white students, for that matter, have more successful outcomes for having participated.
In the educational realm, if something sounds good, it is promoted as being a good thing to spend money on. This is similar to the current advocacy for universal preschool. the overwhelming evidence of HeadStart is that it is a waste of time and money, and that there are no benefits to the children. Anyone who believes that a three or four year old should be in a classroom for six hours of the day doesn't know anything about children.. Even five year olds are better off in a half day program. Which we would know if anyone did any research.
5
Every child should be tested for the gifted program prior to entering kindergarten. Many more children will qualify, more than space permits. So, there should be more gifted classrooms to accommodate those who qualify. We don't like to admit that genetics plays a huge role, don't like the idea of testing or interviewing little kids, but this is the way to go to capture those bright minority kids who otherwise will not get their chance.
My father was a foster child from age 6; as such he was placed in regular classes until a high school shop teacher told him he belonged in the academic as opposed to commercial course track, and took him down to the school guidance counselor. My father was a child who read encyclopedias and anything he could get his hands on, but had it not been for this teacher, his life may have gone very differently. As it was, he attended Syracuse University on the GI bill, and had a fine career as an insurance company executive. He was also a grateful, humble, curious man all his life.
My father was a foster child from age 6; as such he was placed in regular classes until a high school shop teacher told him he belonged in the academic as opposed to commercial course track, and took him down to the school guidance counselor. My father was a child who read encyclopedias and anything he could get his hands on, but had it not been for this teacher, his life may have gone very differently. As it was, he attended Syracuse University on the GI bill, and had a fine career as an insurance company executive. He was also a grateful, humble, curious man all his life.
21
Gifted students of all races are routinely discriminated against, as can be seen in these reader comments. Non-gifted people assume that gifted children do not need additional support, whereas low performers "of course" require additional services. The highest ability students in public schools are regularly ignored in favor of the bottom 20% (thanks NCLB).
Regardless of the child's IQ, the parent must advocate in order to obtain what the child is entitled to: A free and appropriate public education.
Sadly, for gifted children, the education is rarely appropriate.
Regardless of the child's IQ, the parent must advocate in order to obtain what the child is entitled to: A free and appropriate public education.
Sadly, for gifted children, the education is rarely appropriate.
57
The education for the bottom 20% is very rarely free and appropriate either. Additionally the great majority of special education students are of average to above average intelligence. Some very unfortunate ones are both gifted and in SPED.
What parents of gifted children want is individualized instruction and a modified curriculum. That is what Sped parents have to fight tooth and nail for too.
If you want to advocate for services for gifted students in your town, I recommend you start with your local SPED parent organization. They will know exactly what you are talking about.
What parents of gifted children want is individualized instruction and a modified curriculum. That is what Sped parents have to fight tooth and nail for too.
If you want to advocate for services for gifted students in your town, I recommend you start with your local SPED parent organization. They will know exactly what you are talking about.
4
Excellent point. Making a double advanced student sit in boredom in a class that is "equal and fair to all" is inherently unfair.
10
The problem starts at the very top -- with the Nobel Prizes.
Africans are responsible for half the breakthroughs in advanced physics & chemistry, including discovery of the Higgs Boson & Dark Energy.
Yet they have yet to be awarded a first minority Nobel Prize.
Dr. Thabo Mbeki single-handedly discovered the African genesis of HIV, saving thousands of lives by his work.
Yet he was never honored by a Nobel in Medicine.
Why are Academy Award nomination set-asides deemed more urgent than academic distinctions in the pure sciences?
Africans are responsible for half the breakthroughs in advanced physics & chemistry, including discovery of the Higgs Boson & Dark Energy.
Yet they have yet to be awarded a first minority Nobel Prize.
Dr. Thabo Mbeki single-handedly discovered the African genesis of HIV, saving thousands of lives by his work.
Yet he was never honored by a Nobel in Medicine.
Why are Academy Award nomination set-asides deemed more urgent than academic distinctions in the pure sciences?
8
Until we can stop talking about race and put our heads together in the real free primary education for all and not just the sham state its today , we are not going anywhere.
I guess we need to test the kids every year and provide teachers real added compensation other than "benefits of being in a union" we face a real challenge.
Conspiracy theory or not I have seen first hand what they teach in primary school these days.. ABC/I23 in Kindergarden. Of Course these kids will not even make good skilled workers unless miracles happen for everyone.
And I do not believe in Mark Z miracles happening for every one..Specially where both the parents work at 8 dollars an hour to put put at table and waste the rest of the time watching TV and not giving any time to the kids to read or even chat about the day.
I guess we need to test the kids every year and provide teachers real added compensation other than "benefits of being in a union" we face a real challenge.
Conspiracy theory or not I have seen first hand what they teach in primary school these days.. ABC/I23 in Kindergarden. Of Course these kids will not even make good skilled workers unless miracles happen for everyone.
And I do not believe in Mark Z miracles happening for every one..Specially where both the parents work at 8 dollars an hour to put put at table and waste the rest of the time watching TV and not giving any time to the kids to read or even chat about the day.
5
I went to school in Hillsborough County, Florida. Back in the 80s they did tracking: basic, advanced and gifted. The tracking started in the 3rd grade, or at least that's when I remember being tested (that's when I was bused into a majority white middle class school). They actually did IQ tests. I don't know if it was teacher lead or a county wide policy.
But while it was a good thing for me, my tracking led me to college prep courses in middle and high school and ultimately college, I can say it's not great for everyone. It's hard to get on an advanced/gifted track once you've already been track as basic. Not to mention what the being labeled "basic" must do to your self esteem and motivation.
But while it was a good thing for me, my tracking led me to college prep courses in middle and high school and ultimately college, I can say it's not great for everyone. It's hard to get on an advanced/gifted track once you've already been track as basic. Not to mention what the being labeled "basic" must do to your self esteem and motivation.
17
A couple of days ago the Times ran an article about the SATs. The gist of the comments, if not the article, was that the tests discriminate against non-Asian minorities and that teachers are better at evaluating students. Now the problem is the teachers and tests are the answer. How very confusing.
56
Well, that is why I always take these "studies" with a grain of salt.
4
This entire article starts with an unproven premise; namely, that all racial and ethnic subgroups have an equal propensity for brilliance. Environmental factors, such as single parenthood, also play a role. Lower income students may not have books around the home, for example. To those who might claim these are racist statements, I am not stating that there are inherent intellectual differences between races or ethnicities.
15
OK, Ron. What are you stating, then?
3
Then don't use "brilliance" as a descriptor. Brilliance implies inherent intellect, which is what you are claiming to not claim. You can't say one thing and then say you're not saying it without invalidating yourself.
2
And yet we have 120 years of research demonstrating race based differences in intelligence. What are you saying? That you prefer to be politically correct than accurate?
12
Gifted students usually are restless in class, because while people are learning 'this is a cat', the kid is already a few miles ahead divining why cats land on their paws, and can use use that mechanism in some way.
But that's when the teacher takes them to the nurse to get drugged for 'ADHD', and his creativity is gone. Nothing but a well behaved, docile sheep remains, just what the teacher likes.
And minority kids are drugged whole sale quite a lot more than others.
Stop drugging kids at school, you will see them come alive and show their gifts to the world.
But that's when the teacher takes them to the nurse to get drugged for 'ADHD', and his creativity is gone. Nothing but a well behaved, docile sheep remains, just what the teacher likes.
And minority kids are drugged whole sale quite a lot more than others.
Stop drugging kids at school, you will see them come alive and show their gifts to the world.
40
Not all Gifted students are restless in class; and not all restless kids are Gifted. That's a good reason to have universal testing rather than testing based on recommendations.
12
"Given these problems, we might be tempted to abandon these programs for gifted and high-achieving children entirely. After all, distinguishing between gifted students and everybody else could lock some children, especially disadvantaged children, into a long-term track with low expectations that, too often, are self-fulfilling."
This comment can only come from someone who never experienced the sheer unmitigated torture of sitting in a classroom with class mates who were literally YEARS behind where you were. Gifted kids have an IQ 2 standard deviations above the mean of 100 - that is 130. There is no reason these kids should denied an appropriate education anymore than a child with an IQ of 70 should.
I am also sick and tired of the achievement gap being used as an excuse to ignore the gifted. Because of this we have NO gifted and talented programs in Minneapolis and you need to either drive your kids to a program in the suburbs or pony up over $30,000 for a high end private school where your kid will at least get some some specialized attention. So, how about we make every effort possible to find these gifted kids, especially ones who are from economically disadvantaged families and give them the education they deserve to reach their maximum potential?
This comment can only come from someone who never experienced the sheer unmitigated torture of sitting in a classroom with class mates who were literally YEARS behind where you were. Gifted kids have an IQ 2 standard deviations above the mean of 100 - that is 130. There is no reason these kids should denied an appropriate education anymore than a child with an IQ of 70 should.
I am also sick and tired of the achievement gap being used as an excuse to ignore the gifted. Because of this we have NO gifted and talented programs in Minneapolis and you need to either drive your kids to a program in the suburbs or pony up over $30,000 for a high end private school where your kid will at least get some some specialized attention. So, how about we make every effort possible to find these gifted kids, especially ones who are from economically disadvantaged families and give them the education they deserve to reach their maximum potential?
153
Driving the kids to the suburbs merely results in having them placed in a classroom with more children whose parents insist they belong in a gifted program, regardless of any objective test measurement of their intellectual abilities. That achievement gap you speak of is a great motivator for school districts to ignore gifted education.
1
Actually at least two of our suburbs, Bloomington and Minnetonka, have excellent gifted and talented programs that can only be accessed if you meet the testing requirements. In fact, they fill their programs with kids from other districts if there are not enough kids in their own to meet the stringent criteria.
3
Disappointed to see so many of the comments referring to there being no need for separate GT classes.
So wrong!
The level of teaching in regular classroom meets the need of *most* children but that level just does not work for some children. Kids who need more challenge absolutely require that need to be taken care of, as much as kids who need extra help to catch up.
I have had two kids in the GT program & volunteer in the Gifted & Talented Advisory Committee for our school district.
When my son was little, he was far advanced in Math for his age. The math class was way too easy for him and he was bored out of his mind. His school had a 1hr-a-week pull-out program for the identified GT kids... that was the only hour of math that he enjoyed.
He was actually beginning to associate *boredom* with Math and getting turned off. Fortunately, we moved and the new school had a full day GT classroom & grouped the kids who needed more challenge than regular class. He thrived in the math class. He formed deep friendship with a couple of other kids who were at a similar level & they challenged each other & learned new concepts from each other.
Unfortunately, the result of the no-child-left-behind has been that the budget cuts most impact GT & arts programs. This is a true pity. If I could make a wish, it would be that some of those tax loopholes on foreign assets can be closed and the money be diverted to the public schools, specifically those programs.
So wrong!
The level of teaching in regular classroom meets the need of *most* children but that level just does not work for some children. Kids who need more challenge absolutely require that need to be taken care of, as much as kids who need extra help to catch up.
I have had two kids in the GT program & volunteer in the Gifted & Talented Advisory Committee for our school district.
When my son was little, he was far advanced in Math for his age. The math class was way too easy for him and he was bored out of his mind. His school had a 1hr-a-week pull-out program for the identified GT kids... that was the only hour of math that he enjoyed.
He was actually beginning to associate *boredom* with Math and getting turned off. Fortunately, we moved and the new school had a full day GT classroom & grouped the kids who needed more challenge than regular class. He thrived in the math class. He formed deep friendship with a couple of other kids who were at a similar level & they challenged each other & learned new concepts from each other.
Unfortunately, the result of the no-child-left-behind has been that the budget cuts most impact GT & arts programs. This is a true pity. If I could make a wish, it would be that some of those tax loopholes on foreign assets can be closed and the money be diverted to the public schools, specifically those programs.
45
Gifted and talented is pretty weird. But what should we do for students who need more support, while others could do more? Easiest answer is to have standardized test for grade advancement so all students of a certain skill level can go on, while others are do not. But grade advancement is such a mark against a child here that signifanctly large number of parents would allow it. Remediation has to occur if we are to deal with the unequal outcomes we see, and I have seen in education. There are plenty of intelligent low income etc. etc. etc. people. The problem is not identification its funding.
2
Your conclusion ignores one of the first sets of facts presented by this article: changing the test tripled the number of minority students identified as gifted. That suggests that identification truly is a problem. Funding is one as well, but they are not exclusive of each other.
5
So the classrooms designated for gifted learners had no measurable effect, but the classes that mixed gifted learners with learners who didn't pass the screen had a measurable effect for the learners who didn't pass the screen. Sounds like an argument for eliminating gifted classes.
3
This finding is completely inconsistent with all the credible peer reviewed research on the topic.
5
Sounds like an argument for designing a better gifted and talented curriculum. Children learn when they are given challenging work -- as the "high achievers" obviously were -- and just as obviously the gifted children were not...
27
I grew up and went 3rd-12 in Broward Schools (K-2nd in Miami as my family was displaced post Hurricane Andrew) and, per my parent's request, which is the norm, tested into "gifted." What your article leaves out is that, not all schools is Broward County are diverse. And when I say "diverse" I'm talking South Florida's version of "diverse"--as in "hispanic" does not mean "not white", "not black", or even minority population. For the most part, elementary schools, the grade levels where children are most likely test into "gifted" are small populations (500 or so students) and hyperlocal--as in, not diverse socioeconomically. Whereas an elementary school in "East" Ft. Lauderdale would also not be diverse, in that most students would qualify for free lunch and/or be students of color. Considering that my "gifted" program only had about 10 kids out of 120is, I would not be surprised in the least if the schools on the "East" side did not have programs. This means that a qualifying child would need to be bussed to a school that did have a program, or the parent could send that child to a magnet school. Either way, In a monstrous school district like Broward County these programs reinforce "integration" in a way--and I guarantee that many black parents are more aware than this article makes them out to be. They just value community schools.
2
During the Johnson "War on Poverty", a Harlem school psychologist found students with above-average promise. He attempted to bring them out of the slums to spend a summer in Newtown, CT. The problem then, as now, is that these children live in the slums where they do not have access to the extra help and guidance they deserve. It isn't jiust the schools, it is the culture that says "I'm stuck here."
13
I don't think most kids deliberately say "I'm stuck here". I'm not sure that it is a broad based "culture" thing. I believe that in many ways one's horizons are defined by their experience and/or the experience of one's parents. In many ways it is like being lost in a forest: if you don't have the right tools, the right experiences, it will take you longer to get out of the forest--if ever. That's not a culture of being resigned. That's a lived experience of numerous obstacles which--if we are honest with ourselves--many of us would be unable to overcome.
3
One part of being "gifted" is that you don't need extra help, and the other part is called the Public Library.
9
I have met plenty of very brilliant people who have been trapped in lives of poverty by bad luck and lack of opportunity to lend any creedence to that.
8
Not all schools offer gifted & talented programs. Parents living in areas not zoned for one need to expend a lot of time and energy trying to find one and have the child take the test for an open-zoned school or move to an area that has G&T. This puts poor kids at a disadvantage. Drilling down this demographic you'll find that it is enriched for minorities. Parent involvement in my opinion is the most important driver of successful early childhood learning.
13
And, I had to get an Attorney and demand my daughter got a fair evaluation. The result was she skipped the 8th grade and graduated Valedictorian of her High School class. Then went on to get a Masters Degree in Statistics. Once again with Highest Honors. Parents have to be involved to get results.
52
Why would some parents want to have their child 'discovered' and pulled into a different sphere of influence, even to benefit the child? Some emotionally don't want to lose their child to the wider world; some don't want to lose the person they know is smart enough to help them navigate life's difficulties. Saw this over and over again in the JHU Beginning School Study.
3
Parents and teachers often mistake early reading and math skills with intelligence. This creates a bias towards the less-prepared, English language learners and students with neurological differences.
There is not a direct connection between intelligence/giftedness to standardized test scores, so it is not surprising that achievement measured by standardized testing did not rise much in the group selected for IQ, nor that the children who were selected for their talent in taking standardized tests strengthened their skills. The other students may have also increased their talents, but many higher level thinking skills, like interpersonal insight, creativity and problem-solving, are out of the scope of state tests.
Many students are neuro-diverse in more than one area or have factors that impact their performance on standardized tests. When we look at the people we laud for their accomplishments in the greater world, they often were not star students.
It is very valuable to our country and to school communities to keep our brightest children challenged and engaged even if they are High IQ/Learning Disabled, High IQ/ADHD, High IQ/ASD, High IQ/ACEs, High IQ/Ell and are not good test takers. Currently, we treat them as expendable and too many drop out.
There is not a direct connection between intelligence/giftedness to standardized test scores, so it is not surprising that achievement measured by standardized testing did not rise much in the group selected for IQ, nor that the children who were selected for their talent in taking standardized tests strengthened their skills. The other students may have also increased their talents, but many higher level thinking skills, like interpersonal insight, creativity and problem-solving, are out of the scope of state tests.
Many students are neuro-diverse in more than one area or have factors that impact their performance on standardized tests. When we look at the people we laud for their accomplishments in the greater world, they often were not star students.
It is very valuable to our country and to school communities to keep our brightest children challenged and engaged even if they are High IQ/Learning Disabled, High IQ/ADHD, High IQ/ASD, High IQ/ACEs, High IQ/Ell and are not good test takers. Currently, we treat them as expendable and too many drop out.
4
I've heard this a lot, but is it really true? My daughter is in the second grade and has yet to ever have reading instruction. I was the same way. When you don't give children instruction because they are already above grade level, how do they grow? There was a lot I missed in those years of sitting and reading my own self-chosen books while everyone else got taught. We teach my daughter because learning doesn't happen in school. I don't care if she's gifted or not. I just want her to learn something.
8
I'm not sure what point you want clarification on. If it's the "bias towards the unprepared" then no it's not true, it should be "against".
I understand your frustration. It's unfortunate that our children have come to be seen as cost centers to be served as efficiently as possible for a good budget/test score ratio. If you daughter can pass the test, why waste any more resources on her? What can you do? If you leave the school, your city/town will save money on what is likely it's single biggest budget item.
Public schools for all their platitudes and veneer of concern don't serve outliers well, neither at the top, nor the bottom.
If you want to create change, you should band together with the other parents who are feeling similarly betrayed, no matter where their children fall. After all - we all want the same thing - and education for our children that develops their potential.
I understand your frustration. It's unfortunate that our children have come to be seen as cost centers to be served as efficiently as possible for a good budget/test score ratio. If you daughter can pass the test, why waste any more resources on her? What can you do? If you leave the school, your city/town will save money on what is likely it's single biggest budget item.
Public schools for all their platitudes and veneer of concern don't serve outliers well, neither at the top, nor the bottom.
If you want to create change, you should band together with the other parents who are feeling similarly betrayed, no matter where their children fall. After all - we all want the same thing - and education for our children that develops their potential.
2
Here's a crazy idea...why don't we treat ALL school children as though they were gifted? The so-called Pygmalion effect has been proven to increase positive outcomes. And guess what? That's what wealthy people do already. They send their children to the best preschool, the best private school, the best college...and in those supportive environments, with high expectations, the vast majority of children of all abilities (even mediocre ones) succeed.
They may even become President one day...certainly stranger things have happened. George W. Bush, I'm looking at you.
They may even become President one day...certainly stranger things have happened. George W. Bush, I'm looking at you.
101
High expectations and a supportive environment seem to be essential. Anyways, today's school curricula do not require a super high i.q. to succeed or even excel, which is perhaps why the gifted programs in the report helped those achievers instead of those with higher i.q. That said, I am mystified by the i.q. test, too.
2
Exactly right. If you treat all children as if they were above average, they will together raise the average.
5
W created NCLB which created an educational machine that focuses on the bottom 20% and neglects the most talented learners.
9
I'd love to see a school in which ALL classes were designed for "gifted" students. Those students who fall behind are assigned to those students who excel for tutoring and general assist. That way no student is targeted for disadvantaged or advantaged classrooms.
2
My daughter was 'gifted'. Often times in class she was assigned to tutor those who were behind, or learning disabled, etc. She did not like this or want to do it. She was forced into it. I had to talk to the school and make the teachers stop doing this, every year. It also happened with my boys as they got older. I don't think it's my kids job to tutor other kids just because they are smart. None of my kids liked doing this and none of them wanted to be teachers. It's not their job to teach, it's the teacher's.
63
Why should a child have to do an adult's job (the teacher's) because they happen to be gifted, in place of their own learning, which should be acceleratied? Is that really an "appropriate" education for them that is supposed to be given to them by a public school, to essentially be given an adult level job (unpaid and required, of course) for what they will perceive as punishment for being accelerated academically? And you expect small children to want to go to school in this way?
18
Students who excel should be allowed to learn even more. They shouldn't be hobbled to keep them at the same level as the slower learners. They shouldnt forced to spend hours a day bored and tutoring other students. If you want to put them to work, then pay them. Wasting their time is cruel. They're in school to learn, not to be used. They have a right to an education too.
28
This study seems to equate giftedness with privilege. It reminds me of the fierce battles over "tracking" in the urban schools of the '70s. We still fight over the meaning and origin of intelligence. The end result is that whatever intelligence is however it is identified or nurtured, it is a quality of immense value. We do need to make the most intelligent children our allies early on, before they become leaders of harmful gangs or sufferers from unlived lives - whoever those children are.
10
As a non-white, lower-middle class child in elementary school (English was my fourth language), I was not "spotted" by my teachers. In fact, I hated school - it was boring, stupid, and I didn't learn anything. So I started acting out. The last straw for my mother was when I got into a spitting argument -in class- who could spit furthest? I can't remember who won.
My mother forced the school district to administer an IQ test. I performed in the 98th percentile. Still, the school refused to put me in their "gifted" program full time, rather they gave me a six-week "trial". That trial was a joke (I remember having to count the windows in my house.)
So my parents took out a loan, and enrolled me into private school. It changed my life, and I relished the challenge. My grades shot up, and my overall happiness did too.
Moral of the story: without concerned parents, small classrooms/lots of individual attention, and money, most kids just wouldn't get very far.
My mother forced the school district to administer an IQ test. I performed in the 98th percentile. Still, the school refused to put me in their "gifted" program full time, rather they gave me a six-week "trial". That trial was a joke (I remember having to count the windows in my house.)
So my parents took out a loan, and enrolled me into private school. It changed my life, and I relished the challenge. My grades shot up, and my overall happiness did too.
Moral of the story: without concerned parents, small classrooms/lots of individual attention, and money, most kids just wouldn't get very far.
104
You are so right! We could not afford private school and that is my one regret. My kids were all very smart and school was not a challenge for them. They were also very social so they liked it, but college was a shock, the work was so much harder. The gifted programs are not really that great, just 'enrichment' as they say. The kids are not getting any accelerated learning, we were not very impressed and we were in three different school systems, two rated quite highly. Public education is so poor it's a wonder everyone that graduated is not functionally illiterate.
14
I agree with the commenter above who points out that there are plenty of "nonwhite" Americans who are racially discriminated against who do quite well in school regardless of the income level of their parents.
But to the larger issue: why is the concept of labeling some people "gifted" itself not a form of discrimination?
It implies clearly that students who aren't labeled "gifted" must not be special or worthy of an advanced curriculum. I speak as a teacher. Talent or "giftedness" isn't enough. It's just a start on accomplishment. Other qualities, like perseverance and humility, are equally important.
Taking the most talented or skills kids out of the "ordinary" classroom may cause more help than harm.
But to the larger issue: why is the concept of labeling some people "gifted" itself not a form of discrimination?
It implies clearly that students who aren't labeled "gifted" must not be special or worthy of an advanced curriculum. I speak as a teacher. Talent or "giftedness" isn't enough. It's just a start on accomplishment. Other qualities, like perseverance and humility, are equally important.
Taking the most talented or skills kids out of the "ordinary" classroom may cause more help than harm.
6
Discrimination is when you treat people differently based on a suspect class. Race, religion, national origin, gender. So far, intelligence is not a suspect class. Moreover, gifted is not better. Every child is a gift. But gifted is different. It simply is a matter of intelligence, of faster processing, in ablity to make more and greater connections, of having greater brain capacity.
And what does it mean to be worthy of an advanced curriculum? We have a group of sixth graders taking 9th grade algebra in our school. I don't know if they are worthy of that but they sure are capable of it. You're a teacher, are all your kids able to do math three years above grade level? Be honest.
And what does it mean to be worthy of an advanced curriculum? We have a group of sixth graders taking 9th grade algebra in our school. I don't know if they are worthy of that but they sure are capable of it. You're a teacher, are all your kids able to do math three years above grade level? Be honest.
12
Being "gifted" means the way a student learns is so different from their same age peers, that the gifted student's needs can't be met in a general education classroom. Students whose FSIQ scores are more than 2 std. dev. higher than the average IQ, need classes with less scaffolding and repetition. They must be taught differently or they often become frustrated and are in danger of dropping out.
The status that seems to be implied with the gifted label does a disservice to all children. What the gifted program should be is an approach to learning that fits a subset of students that would otherwise be denied an appropriate education. The competition and judgment that adults bring to the idea of gifted classrooms is innappropriate.
The status that seems to be implied with the gifted label does a disservice to all children. What the gifted program should be is an approach to learning that fits a subset of students that would otherwise be denied an appropriate education. The competition and judgment that adults bring to the idea of gifted classrooms is innappropriate.
16
As Americans, we just seem to be uncomfortable in many ways with differences between people, and are taught to be embarassed when some people in some ways have more than others. For example, someone who has exceptional athletic talent is typically lionized and applauded publically. Someone who has exceptional intelligence, however, is taught to not "be a know it all," and it is taught that it is almost rude to exhibit it. This is not to say that it is "better" than any other talent or gift, or that they are more important or better people. Not at all. But ignoring that yes, there are people who have exceptional intelligence, they exist, and they have different needs as learners than others, is no different than pointing out that there are people who are developmentally disabled and have different needs for learning as well, without value judgment. Are the developmentally disabled more "worthy" than the "average" student, or do they just have different needs? Same with the gifted student.
10
But might gifted classes also raise scores for non-gifted, non-high scoring students?
3
Having a 'gifted' program for 3rd graders is stupid. There are still so many basic hurdles to get over at that age and for many years ahead, that attempting to identify a 'gifted' child is moot exercise. In reality, 'gifted' students don't truly need any special attention. Kids with learning disabilities do. Still, even many of those are not obvious till later in the educational career of a child but there is no greater damaging stigma than sending a kid to another classroom because he isn't smart enough to sit with his classmates. Good teachers can handle gifted kids within their own classroom setting by giving them more challenging work on a case by case basis. That also shows other students what level of work is needed to become an A level student. BTW, having parents involved in deciding whether or not their child is gifted defies logic. Kids minds and bodies develop at different rates. Just as the kids who are the best athletes at 9 years of age aren't necessarily the best as teenagers, so the top students in 3rd grade aren't necessarily the top achievers in high school. Nobody feels it necessary to pick a high school athletic team of the future when kids are in 3rd grade. Why do insist on trying to do it with academics?
18
I was a former gifted student in 3rd grade. My "gifted" curriculum consisted of 1 hour once a week meeting with a small group. That was life saving. I was in a fairly high achieving school in a good school system. Regular classes were extremely boring to me. I would finish my work and stare out the window. I got lots of "stomachaches" and "headaches" and would go home so I could read and learn on my own time. One hour once a week was not enough. A lot of my time was spent "helping" other students, or doing "group projects," which meant doing the teachers' work for them. I finally broke down and cried about having to keep going to school for the next decade plus of my life and my family put me in a school which catered to high achievers. If I had not, it is likely I would have given up on school, because it really seemed like a lot of hoops to jump through for no reason at that point. I was very happy at the new school with the challenge, excelled, and yes, went on to a top college and then to medical school, etc. I now have a son who is very young, gifted but easily bored, even more so than myself. I can see him becoming a very disruptive influence and even a "troublemaker" down the line, if he does not get the challenge that he needs. I plan on advocating for his needs the same way I would if he had a learning disability. The truth is, gifted children are a special population, and do have particular needs as well. All children should be taught appropriately- why not them?
92
These were my kids in elementary and middle school! They hated group projects, they also got the worst kids in the class and had to lead them through the whole stupid project. I had to step in frequently to stop the teachers from using my kids as teacher's aids. I really wish we had sent them to private school, but they all ended up in college and all graduated with a hard science degree, the youngest is still in school studying engineering. Schools and the public seem to think they can use the smart kids as extra help and hey! no salary to pay. No thanks!
40
Just so you know you do often have to fight the "cooperative learning fight" in private school as well. However, since you are paying good money for your kids education you have a much bigger opportunity to get your kid what they need.
11
I was in the gifted program all throughout school which in my hood was 99.9% white. I remember in middle school there was one teacher -- I think she was a socialist -- who she was given the gifted program after the other teachers gave up because weren't gifted enough to relate to the gifted kids. She brought into a class a black kid kid who was kind of tough and known on the playground as having a kind of gang around him. But it turned out he was the smartest of all. We were all good obedient advanced readers and great test takers and of course we were good at math. But this kid could actually think. And he had ideas and he recognized concepts and symbols in art and literature that we were completely blind to. His parents were poor but they were intellectuals. They talked to him all the time. He had all kinds of adult understandings of things and sometimes made me feel ignorant like a little kid. He turned out to be a talented photographer and artist. He wouldn't have improved our gifted program without that Commie teacher from SF State being put in charge of the gifted program in middle school. So it does matter who is in charge of those programs. It matters quite a bit.
166
As an SF State grad, this makes me proud. Thank you. I attended SF State after completing the IB program in high school. While most of my peers strived for the Ivies and UCLA, I was different, in more ways than one, and while I was in advanced classes, I was not much of a star performer by the strict numbers or rules. The school has an atmosphere like no other and changes the world for many greatly. For a relatively unknown state school in San Francisco, there is a lot of beauty and different intelligence there.
6
Are you saying his parents did not get involved but it was all the teachers doing?
3
Bravo to your "commie" teacher. Thanks for a great comment.
20
I had to demand my 4th grade "very white" son be included in the gifted program at his school. He graduated Summa Cum Laude in Physics.
Education works if the parents get involved.
Education works if the parents get involved.
46
Another factor at work is pre-K education. What a child starts kindergarten knowing or not knowing has a tremendous impact on their experience in K, 1st, 2nd, preparing them better or worse for learning as it gets harder.
I wonder how this data would shake out if comparing districts that offer pre-K learning and those that don't.
I wonder how this data would shake out if comparing districts that offer pre-K learning and those that don't.
7
Any teacher worth his or her salt will easily recognize talent and motivation and will foster them as much as possible. Some will fail and feel regrets.
A teacher who does not do that should not be teaching.
A teacher who does not do that should not be teaching.
9
Gifted kids often do not present as bright high-achievers and in fact many teachers do not recognize their talent.
58
In the 3rd grade my daughter's teacher openly lobbied against the gifted program. She disliked having the kids gone for one hour a week and having to help them make up the things they missed. This was a supposedly good school too.
6
Let's face it. Gifted gifts present threats to those who aren't very smart. They don't respect the intelligence of the teacher if it isn't there. Kids can smell poseurs a mile away. And letting the teacher know it in front of the class is deadly. When my daughter addressed the teacher with a sentence starting with "Actually..." her teacher started to steam up, as the teacher knew she wasn't going to like what was coming next. Some good teachers came along who taught my daughter how to show respect to people of any age who are less smart, and others who allowed my daughter to study at more advanced levels without needing to jump through hoops. I still hold that every student should be given 'gifted' opportunities.
18
Education is important for all and every effort, technique and insight needs to be employed finding the gifted, as well as the almost gifted. The world desperately needs the smart and educated. Ignoring any child with better capability is crazy and shortsighted.
21
"Many researchers worry that I.Q. tests are biased against low-income and nonwhite children" Why is it then that "nonwhite" Asians excel at the highest level in every single category including English? Many come to this country not even speaking the language and in a single generation advance to the top.
Asian Americans have debunked the nonsense theory that there is a massive conspiracy against nonwhites in the testing methodology used to determine who is truly gifted and who is just being pushed along.
The real tragedy here is that "studies" based on foolishness and racial bias like the ones performed by Card and Giuliano lead to racism.
Ask any Asian male applying to elite colleges and you will hear about real, genuine racial bias.
I am not Asian by the way. I just hate discrimination and nonsense studies.
Asian Americans have debunked the nonsense theory that there is a massive conspiracy against nonwhites in the testing methodology used to determine who is truly gifted and who is just being pushed along.
The real tragedy here is that "studies" based on foolishness and racial bias like the ones performed by Card and Giuliano lead to racism.
Ask any Asian male applying to elite colleges and you will hear about real, genuine racial bias.
I am not Asian by the way. I just hate discrimination and nonsense studies.
197
Your first glaring logical error is assuming that Asians experience the same forms of discrimination that latinos and blacks experience.
19
A great majority of Asians students are scoring quite high in standardized tests. The true is a majority of these students have been enrolled in all-day Saturday math classes and other enrichment programs on the weekends for most of their lives. And those classes are not the brand names that you know. Study habits that are partly cultural is also another contributing factor to the prevalent success. To suggest that others non-white groups don't do as well simply because of their own fault is rather naive, because the argument doesn't take into consideration the racial and social contexts that are inherent of the Black, Hispanics and Native Americans communities, but that are absent /and or different in the Asian group in general.
5
Even if Asian kids are as successful as you say they are, that does not debunk the concrete and measurable results of this study of how black and Hispanic kids are treated by their teachers and parents.
7
Human intelligence does not correlate with zip codes. Or money for that matter.
13
But percentage of single parent households, or households with an incarcerated or drug involved parent, numbers of children born addicted, in foster care, in shelters, in homes where the amount of verbal interaction with children is below average, these things DO correlate with zip codes.
13
Actually, it does. Correlate. Especially money (if by that you mean pay level, earnings, salaries). The relationship is not perfect of course, but "correlate" doesn't imply a perfect relationship, just one that is different enough from random chance.
9
"In response to these disparities the District introduced a universal screening program in spring 2005. Under this program, all second graders completed a non‐verbal ability test, and those scoring above a threshold of 130 points (for non‐disadvantaged students) or 115 points (for ELL [English Language Learner] and FRL [Free / Reduced Lunch] participants) were eligible for referral to a District psychologist for IQ testing."
http://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/universal-screening-NBER21519.pdf