It's so frustrating to read articles like this. I don't doubt that it was an accurate account of the author's experience in Germany from his point of view. But it's quite narrowminded. Every person or event in this article fits into the same simplistic paradigm system: provincial Europeans, whose prejudice ranges from quaint/uninformed to menacing, 'good' Europeans who realize refugees are just like 'us' if you get to know them, and the refugees themselves as bystanders just trying to make it, but slowly being frustrated and alienated by the small mindedness of their new neighbors. Wow. There's so much to say on what an article like this ignores: the immigrant experience in France in the 20th century, places like Moellenbeek in Brussels, the mass attacks in Cologne that had REAL victims, and were not just staged/spun by the far right to spread distrust of the media, as the author callously implies. But to make 1 brief point: shaming people into embracing a view of this situation that resonates with Merkel or the NY Times but not with the German people ultimately does no one any good. In fact, the disconnect between Euro politicians and media and the popes they represent is what leads rational, well intentioned people to take refuge in unsavory far right parties.
27
I suspect most of you who comment for or against refugees have never met one of these families. So let me tell you about my personal experience. I gave a middle eastern man a job. He proudly told me about his family, a wife and five children (so far, they wanted more). They had been here for five years. His wife spoke no English at all and had no desire to learn. No English was spoken in the home and his children, three of them born in the US, learned absolutely no English until they enrolled in public school. It was then the school system's responsibility to teach children born on our soil their native language. He noticed child seats in my car and scoffed at the idea that children should be restrained. Most of his relatives had 10-12 kids and they didn't even have a seat in the car much less a child seat. This man lasted about three days on the job then quit. As with other men of his ilk, the 8-5 daily schedule did not fit with his personal life. This is how our tax dollars are being used. And these children growing up in homes where they are no closer to the American way of life than they would be growing up in Damascus, are our future citizens. God help us.
29
Numerous commenters wonder why all these young men don't stay and fight for their country the way Europeans did during their inumerable internal wars. The answer is that all Muslims (all of them) are part of the Ummah
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ummah
State-nations as we know them in the West have absolutely no meaning to Muslims who believe they're accountable to their creed only.
People in the M.E don't care whether they're from Jordania, Irak or any other country created by France and the U.K after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. They share the same culture, the same religion, the same language, they identify themselves as members of the Ummah, that is their ultimate spiritual value on earth.
They leave their "countries" whose borderlines were drawn by Westerners and invade Europe whith a sense of entitlement that beffudles us because we're Kafirs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafir
Unbelievers (in their god) hence totaly unworth their respect.
See this video par pr. B. Warner and you'll understand why they don't fight for their country: Too busy invading the lands thar are not part of the Ummah.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo
Thanks again Frau Merkel!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ummah
State-nations as we know them in the West have absolutely no meaning to Muslims who believe they're accountable to their creed only.
People in the M.E don't care whether they're from Jordania, Irak or any other country created by France and the U.K after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. They share the same culture, the same religion, the same language, they identify themselves as members of the Ummah, that is their ultimate spiritual value on earth.
They leave their "countries" whose borderlines were drawn by Westerners and invade Europe whith a sense of entitlement that beffudles us because we're Kafirs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafir
Unbelievers (in their god) hence totaly unworth their respect.
See this video par pr. B. Warner and you'll understand why they don't fight for their country: Too busy invading the lands thar are not part of the Ummah.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo
Thanks again Frau Merkel!
25
I find the overall tone of these comments disturbing, even though many individual items are thoughtful and well argued. After all, if we want examples of societies that deny women fundamental rights, sanction discrimination based on archaic religious laws, and promote violence, we need look no further than Louisiana (most anti-abortion state cf NARAL), North Carolina (HB2), and Texas (open carry). Maybe the Syrian refugees would fit in better here than in Germany?
5
I am German, having moved to the US in the 60s in my teens.
Did any of the immigrants express any appreciation for what Germany is doing to support them, to help them escape from the war and misery in their home countries? Any willingness (or ability) to adapt to the culture and values of their new home?
Did any of the immigrants express any appreciation for what Germany is doing to support them, to help them escape from the war and misery in their home countries? Any willingness (or ability) to adapt to the culture and values of their new home?
23
An interesting article from the Atlantic magazine in 2011:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/08/the-major-roadb...
Also: Mr Angelos is not necessarily accurate in his assumption that "Wir sind das Volk" is to be understood in the sense "We are the people (and those immigrants are not)." Much of the negative feeling in Germany about the immigration policy of the current coalition Government is based on the fact that neither party (SPD or CDU) had an electoral mandate for its decisions in 2015. The original meaning, in the context of 1989, was "We are the people (but you, East German Government, are not.).
All of which by means of saying that a little German, without sufficient memory of context, can be a dangerous thing for a journalist. But he means well.
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/08/the-major-roadb...
Also: Mr Angelos is not necessarily accurate in his assumption that "Wir sind das Volk" is to be understood in the sense "We are the people (and those immigrants are not)." Much of the negative feeling in Germany about the immigration policy of the current coalition Government is based on the fact that neither party (SPD or CDU) had an electoral mandate for its decisions in 2015. The original meaning, in the context of 1989, was "We are the people (but you, East German Government, are not.).
All of which by means of saying that a little German, without sufficient memory of context, can be a dangerous thing for a journalist. But he means well.
8
We are to much engaged with the impact of the 'new europeans'on us. We should also reflect on the impact of the muslim world. Because something has become obvious, from West-Africa (Boko Haram) to East-Africa (Shabaab) to the Arab Peninsula (Jemen) to Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, even Bangladesh, the geographical spread of muslims fleeing radical violance is huge. And it is also obvious, that they all are heading for christian countries. And that they realize, that the terror in the name of their faith is even happening in their host countries.
In the last 150 years, or maybe even more, the muslims have nothing contributed to the modern world. Electric energy, cars, plans, computer, medical science - everything was mostly invented by christians. They should also reflect on that.
If they want to become europeans we must make them reflect, why the whole muslim world is in such a dire state, and they shouldn't get away with a simple answer.
When we consider this as some kind of fight, and europe is on one side, and the radical muslims are on the other. And muslim defect to our cause, i at least expect them to join the fight. And i am not sure, that many muslims are aware, that we are not willing to be a more peaceful muslim sanctuary. Europe is not just for window-dressing the failure of the muslim world.
In the last 150 years, or maybe even more, the muslims have nothing contributed to the modern world. Electric energy, cars, plans, computer, medical science - everything was mostly invented by christians. They should also reflect on that.
If they want to become europeans we must make them reflect, why the whole muslim world is in such a dire state, and they shouldn't get away with a simple answer.
When we consider this as some kind of fight, and europe is on one side, and the radical muslims are on the other. And muslim defect to our cause, i at least expect them to join the fight. And i am not sure, that many muslims are aware, that we are not willing to be a more peaceful muslim sanctuary. Europe is not just for window-dressing the failure of the muslim world.
35
As the the unaccompanied Syrian and Iraq men of military age, let us call this what it is, internment, that is, internment of soldiers and deserters from a foreign war seeking safe haven in another country--they are internees, not refugees, not migrants, certainly not New Europeans. As soldiers and deserters, they represent de facto demobilized segments of the armies of Syria and Iraq. They should, consequently, be subject to military, rather than civilian, regulation and most should be repatriated at the cessation of hostilities. Treating them as civilian refugees is absurd--they are soldiers fleeing a war zone.
33
This article underlies the tension of ME refugees. They should be offered temporary refugee status for a few years or at least till there is a reasonable peace in In the war torn country they left. They should be taken in for humanitarian reasons only, not as immigrants for integration in the EU or the U.S. They should be taken care of and helped as much as possible for a limited period of time without granting them any form of citizenship or permanent status. Let them get jobs, help them w shelter, education, and healthcare. If any of them are involved in criminal activities send them back to their country of origin at their expense. The refugees must be documented and have no allusions that they will become citizens, except if they meet very specific criteria.
They are guests in their host countries and they must accept it upon entry into any country in the EU and the U.S. The fact they have a safe haven, food and shelter w an opportunity to get an education should be enough for them and their hosts to live with for a limited period of time. Humanitarianism and realism at he same time.
They are guests in their host countries and they must accept it upon entry into any country in the EU and the U.S. The fact they have a safe haven, food and shelter w an opportunity to get an education should be enough for them and their hosts to live with for a limited period of time. Humanitarianism and realism at he same time.
23
@Paul. This is the gist of the reforms Germany is contemplating--with a push from the AfD. Offer only a limited 2-year refugee status for people who are really, truly fleeing a war zone (60% of the people who broke into Europe last year were NOT fleeing anything). After that two-year span, the state would assess the asylum-seekers progress--haven't learned the language? no skills to offer the economy? no contributions to society? Good-bye. It is more like the US tries to do with a limited time and possibility of citizenship after some study--pick and choose the immigrants who will benefit its society and have shown the ability or interest in making it work. I think other European countries (hopefully also Sweden) will be trying to change their outdated, easily exploited immigration laws. These outdated laws and the criminals and parasites that are interested only in getting into the country to loot the welfare system--couldn't find Germany or Sweden or Belgium on a map--are the reason for this "refugee" swindle of the past 5 years.
13
Germany is a very generous country. However, it is a high education, high technology, secular country. I think these refugees, asylum seekers, and economic migrants will have trouble fitting in and getting along, and it would be better if they went to countries where the culture and economy is more similar to the one they are leaving.
17
Since America broke the Middle East. How many refugges are going to the US?
7
War criminals G.W. Bush and Dick Cheney are responsible for this mass migration having invaded Iraq thus creating the instability that evolved from this action on the false pretext of "weapons of mass destruction". The U.S. should take full responsibility and relocate these refugees from Europe to the U.S. Red States who supported and voted in the Bush/Cheney regime nightmare.
7
Police reports show that sexual violence in Germany has skyrocketed since Chancellor Angela Merkel allowed more than one million mostly male migrants from Africa, Asia and the Middle East into the country. But the crimes are being played down by German authorities, apparently to avoid fueling anti-immigration sentiments.
Police in Kiel say the assault began at around 5:30 pm, when two Afghan males (aged 19 and 26) began stalking and photographing three girls (aged 15, 16 and 17) at a food court in the Sophienhof, a large shopping center near the city’s central train station.
After posting photographs of the girls on social media, the two men were quickly joined by at least 30 other migrants who began collectively to harass the girls in a Muslim “rape game” known in Arabic as “taharrush” (al-taharrush al-jinsi, Arabic for “sexual harassment”).
When police arrived, the migrants, rather than running way, began verbally and physically abusing the officers, some of whom were injured. It took police two hours to restore order. The initial two perpetrators, asylum seekers from Afghanistan, were arrested; the other migrants involved in the incident remain at large.
Police in Kiel say the assault began at around 5:30 pm, when two Afghan males (aged 19 and 26) began stalking and photographing three girls (aged 15, 16 and 17) at a food court in the Sophienhof, a large shopping center near the city’s central train station.
After posting photographs of the girls on social media, the two men were quickly joined by at least 30 other migrants who began collectively to harass the girls in a Muslim “rape game” known in Arabic as “taharrush” (al-taharrush al-jinsi, Arabic for “sexual harassment”).
When police arrived, the migrants, rather than running way, began verbally and physically abusing the officers, some of whom were injured. It took police two hours to restore order. The initial two perpetrators, asylum seekers from Afghanistan, were arrested; the other migrants involved in the incident remain at large.
37
You must be reading DER SPIEGEL, very few Americans are sitting on top of the facts like you are.
In addition to the sexual violence (against males too!), there are reports about the"dance game", which is used to distract victims in cases of petty theft.
Dortmund, which has also been attracting a large amount of migrants from North Africa is a hot spot for this kind activity.
In the interim, Germany is no longer granting Algerians and Moroccans asylum and returning them to their countries
In addition to the sexual violence (against males too!), there are reports about the"dance game", which is used to distract victims in cases of petty theft.
Dortmund, which has also been attracting a large amount of migrants from North Africa is a hot spot for this kind activity.
In the interim, Germany is no longer granting Algerians and Moroccans asylum and returning them to their countries
7
This is just another propaganda piece of the type that can be found in the NYTimes on almost a daily basis.
The takehome lesson: a person who raises the slightest concern or objection to uneducated, non-westernized, unskilled, autocratic, parasitic, entitled third worlders pouring into their country is a right-wing fascist extremist. So shut up and shell out the money for your own destruction!
With this tide of immigrants comes crime, ignorance, arrogance, disorder, corruption, dishonesty, and backward practices and attitudes. Thousands of years of painstaking progress is being lost. Europe is committing suicide as a civilization and a culture.
The takehome lesson: a person who raises the slightest concern or objection to uneducated, non-westernized, unskilled, autocratic, parasitic, entitled third worlders pouring into their country is a right-wing fascist extremist. So shut up and shell out the money for your own destruction!
With this tide of immigrants comes crime, ignorance, arrogance, disorder, corruption, dishonesty, and backward practices and attitudes. Thousands of years of painstaking progress is being lost. Europe is committing suicide as a civilization and a culture.
47
What do they bring to the host countries of Europe? The same thing that they have been bringing to said countries for the past 70 years, namely enclaves where radicalism flourishes, where police don't dare to venture, where children defies teachers, where adults refuse to sing the national anthem as in France.
Their pseudo leaders give lip service when attacks are perpetrated by other Muslims. And accuse you of islamophobia and racism. If only European leaders would make a realistic assessment and tell it as it is. No they kowtow to minorities to appear level headed while in fact they encourage the rise of Muslim extremists, while being deaf to the cries of their citizens.
Shouldn't a European be someone who adheres to the values of democracy and equality between men and women? Those are the values for which men and women have died for. Now we are being told that should not be the case. By accepting hundred of thousands of young males that view women as meat, we thereby accept that women will have to risk being attacked and that their value is less than that of a man. We must think of the danger of this imbalance in demography. When these males who want to reproduce will not find a partner, the danger to European women will further rise.
Demography is also destiny, so we will have to find a new name to substitute for European. In the meantime we will see a rise in the so called right parties, who by the way should be called parties for survival of Europe.
Their pseudo leaders give lip service when attacks are perpetrated by other Muslims. And accuse you of islamophobia and racism. If only European leaders would make a realistic assessment and tell it as it is. No they kowtow to minorities to appear level headed while in fact they encourage the rise of Muslim extremists, while being deaf to the cries of their citizens.
Shouldn't a European be someone who adheres to the values of democracy and equality between men and women? Those are the values for which men and women have died for. Now we are being told that should not be the case. By accepting hundred of thousands of young males that view women as meat, we thereby accept that women will have to risk being attacked and that their value is less than that of a man. We must think of the danger of this imbalance in demography. When these males who want to reproduce will not find a partner, the danger to European women will further rise.
Demography is also destiny, so we will have to find a new name to substitute for European. In the meantime we will see a rise in the so called right parties, who by the way should be called parties for survival of Europe.
15
Again, the NYT in their ivory tower. You are removed from reality and are so far behind times. You think advocating absurdity is being liberal and forward.
27
The main problem is that virtually none of the Middle Eastern people showing up in Europe are refugees at all, having already found refuge in Turkey, Lebanon or Jordan. They are simply migrants looking for a better life -- fleeing barbarian countries in order to live in a civilized welfare state. That's perfectly understandable, but it does not engender any legal or moral responsibility on the Europeans' part to finance or accept them.
The real question is whether Europe has the intestinal fortitude to defend itself from an invasion of mostly military age men whose culture -- misogyny, homophobia, anti-Semitism, Islamism and intolerance -- is largely incompatibale with the culture of the countries they are invading. [Not every migrant fits that description of course, but most do.] So far it appears that Europe, especially the bien pensants of Western Europe, mostly lacks that sort of cultural pride and willingness to defend itself from invasion.
The real question is whether Europe has the intestinal fortitude to defend itself from an invasion of mostly military age men whose culture -- misogyny, homophobia, anti-Semitism, Islamism and intolerance -- is largely incompatibale with the culture of the countries they are invading. [Not every migrant fits that description of course, but most do.] So far it appears that Europe, especially the bien pensants of Western Europe, mostly lacks that sort of cultural pride and willingness to defend itself from invasion.
48
Many readers are grumbling about the immigrants vis-a-vis their conditions or state of affairs etc but few seem to be appreciating the details and depth with which the article has been written so wonderfully.
its a nicely written article which brings to light that the immigrants are not the only root cause of issues ...
its a nicely written article which brings to light that the immigrants are not the only root cause of issues ...
3
i have been photographing and writing about the 'new europeans' since the 1990s and few government officials or state-sponsored academics felt the need to notice them; hoping they would either go home or otherwise 'disappear.' it took this crisis for people to look around and see who their new and really not so new neighbors were. in rome in the 90's i was shooting around l'esquilino and a bangladeshi jewlery store worker asked what i was doing. i said i was photographing the 'new romans.' he went inside and told his boss, mr. amin, who came out, gave me his card and posed proudly. he's in my book 'seeing cities change; local culture and class.' along with other 'new' people around the globe.
3
Angela Merkel will go down in history as the bravest leader of Germany - in history.
Naysayers have plenty of fodder. Cologne. History. Data on Islam, Arabs, culture clash. Sages are predicting dire consequences of Madam Merkel's compassion.
Is this preordained? Can Europeans and immigrants never learn, adapt, change, improvise, innovate? Merkel took the first step, and Germans acted in unprecedented and amazing ways - but they got overwhelmed. So what? Was this supposed to produce a Hallmark movie script the very first time?
For this experiment to succeed, the lessons from history are clear. Keep Saudis (and their money) OUT. Do not tolerate a brand of Islam that cannot live with German values. Humanity and Germany, are more important than any religion. Draft the eligible (into an integrated military or civil service) where they receive education and training, and become contributing citizens. Please don't let them fester on street corners - when most of them seem eligible for education in the fine German university system. Then, find the 1-5% of social misfits, bullies, and deviants - and deport them unhesitatingly. Starting with religious firebrands. Much good can come from this.
Godspeed the beautiful people of Germany; most of us who have been there and love you - know you are capable of amazing things.
Kalidan
Naysayers have plenty of fodder. Cologne. History. Data on Islam, Arabs, culture clash. Sages are predicting dire consequences of Madam Merkel's compassion.
Is this preordained? Can Europeans and immigrants never learn, adapt, change, improvise, innovate? Merkel took the first step, and Germans acted in unprecedented and amazing ways - but they got overwhelmed. So what? Was this supposed to produce a Hallmark movie script the very first time?
For this experiment to succeed, the lessons from history are clear. Keep Saudis (and their money) OUT. Do not tolerate a brand of Islam that cannot live with German values. Humanity and Germany, are more important than any religion. Draft the eligible (into an integrated military or civil service) where they receive education and training, and become contributing citizens. Please don't let them fester on street corners - when most of them seem eligible for education in the fine German university system. Then, find the 1-5% of social misfits, bullies, and deviants - and deport them unhesitatingly. Starting with religious firebrands. Much good can come from this.
Godspeed the beautiful people of Germany; most of us who have been there and love you - know you are capable of amazing things.
Kalidan
6
Sorry. But the "Naysayers" in Germany are far more in touch with the realities of this situation than you are.
11
you raise some reasonable points here ... but I do wonder if Islam and Islamic thinking is flexible enough to coexist with what you refer to as German values? what would an Islam look like that, for example, sanctioned same sex marriage? How long till it ever ever gets to that point? thus question alone and its answer tells you how retrograde and unreformed that faith is. and how lacking in a civil society dimension.
5
Europe-wide youth unemployment is 20% or more. If Germany needs workers, what sense does it make to take in people from an alien cultural/religious to fill these jobs when so many young Europeans are unemployed? The result of the current policy will be both Muslim ghettos and European youth unemployment.
33
The crisis that Europe is not living of refugees Today have other serious problems the economy to the political policy and the problem of identity with Europe
This is a Pandora's box that our American MIC-owned government has blown open, all for oil for Halliburton and other amoral capitalist corporations. Confiscate all of the money in every account owned by a contributor to ALEC, and use it to resettle refugees.
3
It's rather audacious and baffling that other Muslim countries haven't reached out to help their folks...yes, Lebanon & Turkey - but what about Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE, etc ? - do these Muslim cultures know anything about charity, especially for their own? Muslims flee to Europe to take advantage of Christian kindness and Western wealth, so to that end they should respect Western customs and try to assimilate as best as possible for everyone concerned.
21
The last part:
"He believed Germany was far more hospitable than other European countries, but still, he would always be a foreigner. When people saw him, they thought: “Nicht aus Deutschland,” he told me. Not from Germany."
After having lived in Germany for about 20 years now, I can only agree completely to this statement. No matter if I went to school here, speak German better than the average German, have no criminal record whatsoever and have above average education, I on and off get the feeling of being a foreigner here.
What the Germans understand by the term "integration" is different from what you would come across in the US. While in the States foreign cuisine and culture to some extent is welcome, the Bavarians don't want to see that.
"He believed Germany was far more hospitable than other European countries, but still, he would always be a foreigner. When people saw him, they thought: “Nicht aus Deutschland,” he told me. Not from Germany."
After having lived in Germany for about 20 years now, I can only agree completely to this statement. No matter if I went to school here, speak German better than the average German, have no criminal record whatsoever and have above average education, I on and off get the feeling of being a foreigner here.
What the Germans understand by the term "integration" is different from what you would come across in the US. While in the States foreign cuisine and culture to some extent is welcome, the Bavarians don't want to see that.
9
Just because they are refugees, doesn't mean that they uphold Europe's modern, democratic, and liberal values. Having this huge influx of immigrants who share very different set of beliefs and values will cause, and have already caused, enormous problems in society. In fifty years this will be the end of Europe as we know it.
19
Merkel will go down in history as one of the most hated leaders in Europe. She gave Germany away without consulting its citizens and destroyed the freedom and security of Europe. Merkel and other leftists decided tolerance for men from a brutal, oppressive ideology was more important than the safety and freedom of women, children, Jews and gay citizens who she has casually sacrificed. And worse is yet to come with a new wave of migrants headed for Europe this summer and Merkel still refuses to listen to her people and is doing her best to quell debate and cover up the true social and economic cost of the invasion she encouraged.
35
The mass immigration of young, healthy, unskilled Syrian migrants, benefits the immigrants. At least in the short term, it also benefits the political elite, the rich and very rich in the country that takes them in. The rest of the endogenous populace? Not so much of course.
One of the many economic reasons that Merkel and the other political bosses at the top of the tree, those who run Bavaria and the other Lands who together make up the modern German nation state, welcome unskilled migrants is because, like the rest of Europe, Germany has an ageing population who need cheap nursing care.
All businesses who employ unskilled labour have always welcomed unskilled immigrants because more unskilled immigrants increase the size of the unskilled labour pool and thereby lower the cost of unskilled labour.
This is one of the reasons why organised business groups and business councils, the many chambers of commerce, have always donated handsomely to the main political parties in any jurisdiction. To ensure that the leaders of the main political parties have always supported unskilled immigration.
Let young able bodied Syrian men stay in Syria and fight for what they believe. If not, the they should seek refuge in other Arab-speaking or in non-Arab-speaking Sunni Muslim nation states, of which there are plenty, or in Iran, or with Assad's political and military patron the Russian Federation. They should not be thronging into Germany.
One of the many economic reasons that Merkel and the other political bosses at the top of the tree, those who run Bavaria and the other Lands who together make up the modern German nation state, welcome unskilled migrants is because, like the rest of Europe, Germany has an ageing population who need cheap nursing care.
All businesses who employ unskilled labour have always welcomed unskilled immigrants because more unskilled immigrants increase the size of the unskilled labour pool and thereby lower the cost of unskilled labour.
This is one of the reasons why organised business groups and business councils, the many chambers of commerce, have always donated handsomely to the main political parties in any jurisdiction. To ensure that the leaders of the main political parties have always supported unskilled immigration.
Let young able bodied Syrian men stay in Syria and fight for what they believe. If not, the they should seek refuge in other Arab-speaking or in non-Arab-speaking Sunni Muslim nation states, of which there are plenty, or in Iran, or with Assad's political and military patron the Russian Federation. They should not be thronging into Germany.
21
Precisely why does this author assume that the citizens of these towns, or whole allegedly democratic nations for that matter should have no say, submit to dictatorial orders from above by elites who do not intend to share the burden (and never do), when the issue involves mass migration of foreigners into their communities? Apparently its the same reason that mostly working-middle class people are expected to serve, get maimed and killed in military ... that common citizens are supposed to accept being used as cannon fodder of one kind of another in the greed/power driven and ideological crusades our superior than thou elites. There is however a fatal flaw in this authoritarian governmental behavior regarding ever more issues. There is no logical reason why a citizenry should remain loyal to governing elites when those citizens have no power of self determination - to make their communities into what they want them to be. Why for instance should Germans or Americans for that matter obey laws and regulations and policies that have been clearly established in violation of the majority will and interest by contemptuous elites using transparently convenient excuses of obligations to do essentially infinite amounts of charity? Particularly now that it is painfully obvious that the elite motivation for mass in migration is the desire of business and political leaders for simply more "bodies" to exploit as slave-wage workers regardless of the costs to common citizens
17
I agree. The NYT seems just incapable of doing balanced journalism about this "refugee" swindle. Note in this article how all the "refugees" even Khalil Qraluq, who more than likely has NO valid claim for asylum--there are 200000 Afghani asylum seekers in Germany and 40000 have been denied but refuse to go back--are noble, likable, hard-working. The majority of Germans are portrayed as a crabby, bitter, proto-Nazis. That is not the Bayern I know. The fact is the average Germans portrayed here are midle-class tax payers and ARE getting fleeced because they are forced to feed and house Afghan, Pakistani, and Moroccan, and Banglideshi, etc. illegal migrants while their (probably spurious) asylum application is adjudicated. Note this small village having to accommodate 20 Pakistanis who are working this scam--who are NOT refugees but think they can game the system, work illegally even if they do NOT get asylum. So Germans like Herr Scholz have to pay taxes so these parasites can get 280 Euros a month and a place to live while their asylum application is being adjudicated. Being exploited and swindled like this is what irritates German taxpayers. It irritates anyone who pays taxes here. And should.
11
This is interesting:
"Yasser began to understand something of life in Germany. Evelyn told him how much money was deducted from people’s paychecks for taxes and health insurance, and the cost of living generally seemed far higher than in prewar Syria... In Germany, however, he would have to reconsider. He and his wife probably wouldn’t be able to afford a house and a car if she didn’t work too. 'Life here is hard,' he said. If the war in Syria ended, he told me, he would go back in a minute."
I've had similar experiences with my North African extended family. They have no idea how much things cost (housing, childcare, healthcare), or how hard people have to work in some of Europe and the US. Granted, I find sitting around doing very little highly stressful when I visit, but it's a different lifestyle, religious and cultural differences aside.
"Yasser began to understand something of life in Germany. Evelyn told him how much money was deducted from people’s paychecks for taxes and health insurance, and the cost of living generally seemed far higher than in prewar Syria... In Germany, however, he would have to reconsider. He and his wife probably wouldn’t be able to afford a house and a car if she didn’t work too. 'Life here is hard,' he said. If the war in Syria ended, he told me, he would go back in a minute."
I've had similar experiences with my North African extended family. They have no idea how much things cost (housing, childcare, healthcare), or how hard people have to work in some of Europe and the US. Granted, I find sitting around doing very little highly stressful when I visit, but it's a different lifestyle, religious and cultural differences aside.
27
I am appalled by the tenor of the comments I've read so far. No compassion. No sense of US responsibility for having unleashed civil war and disorder by our reckless invasion of Iraq that was then executed about as ineptly as it is possible to describe. Don't the commenters on the NYTimes read the news over the years? We bear no responsibility?
18
Many comments here are made by people (like myself), who have close familial ties to Europe. We therefore see what's happening there through a different lens.
It's very easy to sit in an armchair 3,000 miles away and cast judgments. But when you're living everyday with the fear of being caught in the next terrorist attack, and see your quality of life dwindle away, it's quite another matter.
It's very easy to sit in an armchair 3,000 miles away and cast judgments. But when you're living everyday with the fear of being caught in the next terrorist attack, and see your quality of life dwindle away, it's quite another matter.
37
CJGC - "We bear no responsibility?"
No!
No!
7
I agree with you.
I would like see the reaction of those people in the same situation. I think most people would like return to their home when the war is over (question is when will it be). The culture is for some too different. So what's so bad about to give war and political refugees asylum?
To the other point: the situation in Syria is a mix of the Arab Spring and in some points also influenced by the US policies in Iraque and Afghanistan.
I would like see the reaction of those people in the same situation. I think most people would like return to their home when the war is over (question is when will it be). The culture is for some too different. So what's so bad about to give war and political refugees asylum?
To the other point: the situation in Syria is a mix of the Arab Spring and in some points also influenced by the US policies in Iraque and Afghanistan.
I live in Germany. My opinion. Many German do not agree with Merkel's policies. The Chancellor has invited all refugees and bringt up a lot of people. Now they say: This is not our problem. These are not our neighbors. Someone promised you a good job a house? Ask Merkel not me. More, of all immigrants in Germany (Spaniards, Greeks, Poles, Russians), there has been the most problems with muslims. Germany is not a very religious society and has little understanding of very religious groups
And as always: It is a problem of the poor. I live in a rich suburb, never ride with the subway. The only thing I see of the refugees, is a camp near the motorway. But the poor see very accurately, the things the state doesn t buy for them and how much money he spends on refugees. This makes them bitter and angry. And bringing the farright Party Afp to 15 percent and rising
And as always: It is a problem of the poor. I live in a rich suburb, never ride with the subway. The only thing I see of the refugees, is a camp near the motorway. But the poor see very accurately, the things the state doesn t buy for them and how much money he spends on refugees. This makes them bitter and angry. And bringing the farright Party Afp to 15 percent and rising
55
Nein. It's not ONLY the poor who see things "very accurately". This is a very misleading assumption. People who are educated see what's going on. People who volunteer to help see what's going on. My family in Germany, who also live in a wealthy suburb, see what's going on.
The popularity of the right -wing party 'Alternative für Deutschland' (AfD)--up by 24%, is mainly the result of ordinary German citizens who feel themselves powerless by the 'Flüchtlinspolitik' (refugee policy) of Angela Merkel.
The popularity of the right -wing party 'Alternative für Deutschland' (AfD)--up by 24%, is mainly the result of ordinary German citizens who feel themselves powerless by the 'Flüchtlinspolitik' (refugee policy) of Angela Merkel.
15
Hey, I'm also German (though I'm currently abroad). What I also recognized is, the situation in the society became very toxic. It's almost unwanted to debate it in a calm and civilized way. People freak out, scream at you or call you as anything else. I mean it got so far that even Spanish, Greek or other people from the south are getting insulted.
If I come back this summer I guess I will be more afraid about some Germans than about the refugees.
If I come back this summer I guess I will be more afraid about some Germans than about the refugees.
2
One of the problems is, the bar for asylum seekers is too low. To me, a legitimate asylum seeker is a persecuted minority - the Christians, Yazidis, and gays of many countries of the ME qualify as such. I do not see how millions who are members of a majority religion in their ME countries should be considered eligible for asylum in the West. There are at least 49 majority Muslim countries in the world for these people to go to, if they do not feel safe or are not safe in Syria. Conscription-aged Eritrean men are also considered for asylum in the EU, because the Eritrean military is considered repressive, but this is different from being a persecuted minority.
The EU should wake up and see that they cannot solve all the problems of the world and at the same time remain stable for their own citizens. If they take in too many numbers, and if only a tiny fraction of these turn on their host countries, as we have repeatedly seen, national security will be gravely threatened. The EU elite fail to see that by their pie in the sky policies, the groundwork is being laid for more terrorism and even, Heaven forbid, a future civil war. It his happens, who will accept the European asylum seekers?
The EU should wake up and see that they cannot solve all the problems of the world and at the same time remain stable for their own citizens. If they take in too many numbers, and if only a tiny fraction of these turn on their host countries, as we have repeatedly seen, national security will be gravely threatened. The EU elite fail to see that by their pie in the sky policies, the groundwork is being laid for more terrorism and even, Heaven forbid, a future civil war. It his happens, who will accept the European asylum seekers?
54
Being forced out of your home by civil war is not a form of persecution? Don't you read the news?
10
CJGC - Military aged men "forced" out of their homes by a civil war who retreat to another country for safety leave no one "at home" to fight for what's right and just. Just who do they expect to "save" their country for them and their families?
8
Sorry but MOST of these migrants are economic migrants from places like Pakistan where no wars are raging. Then there are the authentic refugees, which are supposed to seek asylum in the first safe country they encounter. Yet they chose to jump over at least 7 countries and pick the wealthiest ones (Germany or Sweden) because the handouts are better. Once you shun the first safe country you're no longer a refuge you're a migrant. Also, why are the wealthy Gulf states not accepting their own co-religionist refugees?
17
None of these refugees or their descendants will ever know what it means to be German. They will know what it means to be Syrian though, and it is this heritage which will not be forgotten. Which means they will never become German. Real Germans will also know that these Syrians are not "real Germans". It's a tribal thing. Big trouble awaits down the road.
55
In America we are a multicultural society. We have no one common bloodline that makes us Americans, but rather a set of values and the intention of creating a "more perfect" democracy that is just and fair to all. The archaic nationalism you rightly describe as tribalism belongs to the paleolithic era. If we are to survive, much less thrive, on this tiny troubled planet, we need to realize that all of us are "real" humans, and we all share much more than what separates us. We can and must find ways to share and support what is beautiful and meaningful in the human experience, whatever our origin or religion or color.
1
No waiting. The trouble already exists. In recent elections in several German states, there was a significant rise in popularity for the right-wing "Alternative für Deutschland' (AfD), which sees German national identity threatened by the unmitigated flow of too many refugees & economic migrants.
7
Technically, if they were real refugees they'd be leaving as soon as things quiet down in Syria. Of course, this won't happen!
13
Can anyone explain to me why 90 or so percent of the refugees are males who left behind their wives and children, the most vulnerable group of people?
It is obvious that they don't value them enough to send them out first. These men are cowards, selfish and self-serving . I don't feel sorry for them. If anyone needs compassion, it is the women they abandoned with their children.They sometimes put them as shields to protect themselves. Islamic values are incompatible with Western values. This should stay where they are and find for themselves.
It is obvious that they don't value them enough to send them out first. These men are cowards, selfish and self-serving . I don't feel sorry for them. If anyone needs compassion, it is the women they abandoned with their children.They sometimes put them as shields to protect themselves. Islamic values are incompatible with Western values. This should stay where they are and find for themselves.
73
This is an ignorant and prejudiced comment. Have you not seen the pictures of women migrants and children, some drowning on Turkish beaches? And where did you get the figure of 90%?
15
So the estimate is that about 80% of the migrants are male. The reason for this disproportionality isn't cowardice or sexism, but rather the fact that the vast majority of these migrants are of the economic variety. That isn't to say that the lands from which they are coming aren't violence-ridden, or corrupt, or otherwise underdeveloped, but rather that the vast majority are NOT fleeing genocide. A small percentage, who are either Assyrian Christians or Yazidis or even Kurds could be said to be fleeing genocide, and among these groups the proportion of women is higher. However, persons from these groups are a tiny, tiny portion of the total. What's violently offensive is that the media, and our politicians continue to refuse to acknowledge this fact, and trot out Kurds as representative of the group. Even among Syrian migrants, the vast majority are Sunni Arab, and have greater sympathy for Daesh than for Bashar Assad.
7
According to the UN, the number is closer to 50/50 male/female. The exception is boat crossings, of which 62% of male.
Able-bodies young Syrian men should stay put and fight in their homeland for what they believe in, either against Assad or for him.
Syrian Alawites who have been dispossessed or displaced by the civil war can choose between moving to family, relatives and friends in Alawite areas still controlled by Assad, or moving as refugees to Iran or the Russian Federation, both which support Assad.
Young Syrian Sunni Muslim men opposed to Assad should not be fleeing to Bavaria. They should have the backbone to stay and fight Assad. The alternative is to flee to other Arab-speaking Sunni Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia, UAE and Kuwait, or Sunni Muslim Turkey, or Albania, or Kosovo, or Bosnia Herzegovina.
Syrian Alawites who have been dispossessed or displaced by the civil war can choose between moving to family, relatives and friends in Alawite areas still controlled by Assad, or moving as refugees to Iran or the Russian Federation, both which support Assad.
Young Syrian Sunni Muslim men opposed to Assad should not be fleeing to Bavaria. They should have the backbone to stay and fight Assad. The alternative is to flee to other Arab-speaking Sunni Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia, UAE and Kuwait, or Sunni Muslim Turkey, or Albania, or Kosovo, or Bosnia Herzegovina.
44
Colenso, what is frightening about your statement, "young Syrian Sunni Muslim men opposed to Assad should not be fleeing to Bavaria. They should have the backbone to stay and fight Assad" is that you don't suggest an option for those Sunni Arab men who oppose Assad but also view ISIS as too extreme. I'm not sure about the reason for this omission, but it speaks to the heart of many in the west who know that while ISIS is representative of few few Sunni Arabs, the percentage of Sunni who are sympathetic to ISIS, or view it as preferable to Assad is frighteningly high:
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#pag...
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#pag...
2
Hmmm. So the Irish, Italian, Dutch, German, French and other Europeans who came to North America should have stayed put, fought the monarchies and the lords, fought for freedom and peace - instead of coming here. There were many Christian countries at that time. It is not too late to act Colenso - you can set this right today.
1
Many of those earlier groups of Europeans did stay and fight - and those countries have had revolutions, which is precisely why those countries are attractive to economic migrants today.
Those earlier groups of immigrants also didn't enter the U.S. able to immediate access welfare benefits and subsidized housing, etc. so comparisons to 19th century immigration aren't really germane.
Those earlier groups of immigrants also didn't enter the U.S. able to immediate access welfare benefits and subsidized housing, etc. so comparisons to 19th century immigration aren't really germane.
4
One quantitative metric that is very useful to analyse the impact of refugees on a country is the percentage of refugees temporarily residing in a country with respect to that country's overall population.Lets call it the Refugee Impact percentage (RI) for each receiver country := (# of Refugees in country/Total Population of country) *100. The Syrian RI for various European countries in 2014 (when the stats were last collected) were:
Country Refugee Impact %
Sweden, 0.3 %
Germany, 0.05 %
Netherlands, 0.03 %
UK, 0.007 %
France, 0.005 %
Those paltry numbers apparently correspond to a "flood" or a "swarm" (recent German/Swedish magnanimity notwithstanding).Now, compare that to the countries neighbouring Syria which have 1-2 orders of magnitude higher Refugee Impact %:
Lebanon 26%
Jordan 9%
Turkey 2%
One simple implication of these facts is that a lack of a coherent, globally coordinated UN funding of the refugee camps in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan (where the bulk of the refugees reside) or availability of Exit Visas (as was arranged for the Vietnames Boat people in the 70's) has lead to their progressive impoverishment (those countries are not giving refugees work permits) and subsequent exodus. The UN is so horribly underfunded that the World Food Programme has halved its assistance to the neediest Syrian refugees, providing just $13.50 per person per month.
source: UNHCR,http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2015/09/daily-chart-crisis-...
Country Refugee Impact %
Sweden, 0.3 %
Germany, 0.05 %
Netherlands, 0.03 %
UK, 0.007 %
France, 0.005 %
Those paltry numbers apparently correspond to a "flood" or a "swarm" (recent German/Swedish magnanimity notwithstanding).Now, compare that to the countries neighbouring Syria which have 1-2 orders of magnitude higher Refugee Impact %:
Lebanon 26%
Jordan 9%
Turkey 2%
One simple implication of these facts is that a lack of a coherent, globally coordinated UN funding of the refugee camps in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan (where the bulk of the refugees reside) or availability of Exit Visas (as was arranged for the Vietnames Boat people in the 70's) has lead to their progressive impoverishment (those countries are not giving refugees work permits) and subsequent exodus. The UN is so horribly underfunded that the World Food Programme has halved its assistance to the neediest Syrian refugees, providing just $13.50 per person per month.
source: UNHCR,http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2015/09/daily-chart-crisis-...
16
They are Muslims. They should be living in Muslim nations.
8
Thank you for this; finally a more objective take on the matter. So much for the fear that "If this continues, soon there will be more foreigners than Germans in Germany"
2
Thank you for the link, but this chart is from the beginning of september 2015, and is propably based on data, that is from before the surge.
These is a rough estimate at the end of 2015.
German population 80 Million,
Refugees in 2015, 1.1 Million - that makes more than 1%.
These is a rough estimate at the end of 2015.
German population 80 Million,
Refugees in 2015, 1.1 Million - that makes more than 1%.
5
I just returned from a one-month volunteer trip while on sabbatical with a housing aid group for refugees in Germany, and wanted to share some surprising observations:
-- A very large number, perhaps a solid majority, of our Syrian and Iraqi refugees were Christians and minority Yazidis fleeing ISIS. I don't know if our group was characteristic of the total but they were not "pre-sorted" in any way, and among our refugee cohorts (rotating groups of 300 people each week), around 60% were Christians, along with large numbers of Yazidis and even secular atheists.
- Even among the Muslim migrants, an extraordinary number are seeking out churches for Christian conversion. Not only Syrians and Iraqis but also Egyptians, Afghans, Iranians were converting and even taking on European names (including surnames). While some may have been hoping to boost asylum chances, the local pastors all insisted that the vast majority were sincere, and that ironically the Middle East migrant influx is reviving the German churches.
- Among the Muslim migrants, a solid majority were well-behaved, well-educated and law-abiding. Unfortunately, a vocal minority were indeed very disruptive and even criminal, and while some did commit crimes against German locals, most of their targets were other migrants (true refugees) fleeing ISIS. Merkel's failure to better distinguish such economic migrants from true refugees is a key reason she is losing her grip on power as her popularity continues to tumble.
-- A very large number, perhaps a solid majority, of our Syrian and Iraqi refugees were Christians and minority Yazidis fleeing ISIS. I don't know if our group was characteristic of the total but they were not "pre-sorted" in any way, and among our refugee cohorts (rotating groups of 300 people each week), around 60% were Christians, along with large numbers of Yazidis and even secular atheists.
- Even among the Muslim migrants, an extraordinary number are seeking out churches for Christian conversion. Not only Syrians and Iraqis but also Egyptians, Afghans, Iranians were converting and even taking on European names (including surnames). While some may have been hoping to boost asylum chances, the local pastors all insisted that the vast majority were sincere, and that ironically the Middle East migrant influx is reviving the German churches.
- Among the Muslim migrants, a solid majority were well-behaved, well-educated and law-abiding. Unfortunately, a vocal minority were indeed very disruptive and even criminal, and while some did commit crimes against German locals, most of their targets were other migrants (true refugees) fleeing ISIS. Merkel's failure to better distinguish such economic migrants from true refugees is a key reason she is losing her grip on power as her popularity continues to tumble.
21
Thank you, your comments are a great contribution to the dialogue. Eyewitness accounts fom Europe are much needed and appreciated.
And again why should Germans bear the brunt of taking in people too cowardly to fight for their own country.
Most of these immigrants don't bite the hand that feeds them. They stay fat and happy with free food, lodging and monthly stipends.
Watch what happens when the gravy train ends!
Most of these immigrants don't bite the hand that feeds them. They stay fat and happy with free food, lodging and monthly stipends.
Watch what happens when the gravy train ends!
6
I don't believe that to be true. The refugees aren't majority Christian going through Greece. The women there are wearing hijab and the men are Muslim. Tell the truth.
16
Somehow I can't help but feel that the Jews will be blamed! Western Civilization seems to be finishing, on the outs, coming to an end, over, done with, whatever. If people can't see what is right in front of their eyes and keep denying what is perfectly obvious Europe is toast and America and Canada and probably even Australia will follow shortly. I used to tell my kids that it wasn't going to be my problem but theirs. I have changed my mind. It is the problem of all of us and we probably deserve what's coming and it's coming soon. It is to weep.
18
Oh please. Don't bring that up -- There are enough troubles in the world already. Jews aren't at the center of every story of persecution.
3
Anti-semitism has and is still strong in Europe. And all of these Muslim immigrants will only exacerbate it.
14
This human catastrophe is a direct result of George W Bush's invasion of Iraq. Yet, small German towns are tasked with managing the outfall. Bravo to them..their humanity is stellar. Meanwhile, Bush and his war mongering cronies have all retired to very very comfortable lives around the United States. There is a disconnect here.
31
Though have NEVER been a Bush fan, to say that 'This human catastrophe is a direct result of George W Bush's invasion of Iraq." will be unjust.
What Bush did with his invasion of Iraq in 2003 certainly opened up a Pandora's box. However, the problems in Syria started soon AFTER the start of Arab Spring in 2010 and was a DIRECT result of the same. To blame Bush is to ignore the seven year gap!
Besides, why is Bush being singled out? A HUGE majority of Americans joined his bandwagon; didn't they???
What Bush did with his invasion of Iraq in 2003 certainly opened up a Pandora's box. However, the problems in Syria started soon AFTER the start of Arab Spring in 2010 and was a DIRECT result of the same. To blame Bush is to ignore the seven year gap!
Besides, why is Bush being singled out? A HUGE majority of Americans joined his bandwagon; didn't they???
2
It's not only small German towns. Berlin, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Köln & Münich are all bursting at the seams -- which is why smaller towns with less populations are tasked with taking up the overflow.
4
These are the result of our current government especially HRC and senators like McCain who aided Syrian Rebels to fight against Assad. Many of the ones coming over are not the Christians and more moderate Muslims but the Salafists who are strict fundamentalists. Note the hijab on your picture. They are the ones who's Islamist culture sees women as second class citizens and exterminates gays. Let them live in your neighborhood. I have no problem with that. But that won't happen will it.
5
This is obviously a very polarizing issue, and even a liberal, open-minded person like myself has struggled with the question of whether or not the West should allow more of these refugees to settle in our nations. Ultimately, however, until there is an Islamic reformation (a real one, not a ghastly "purification" like the one that gave the world Wahabbism), I'm going to have to say sorry, but no. Did America contribute to the destabilization of the Middle East? Certainly. Is European colonization and decolonization also a factor? You bet. Am I tired of all the blame being heaped upon the West for the failures of Islamic societies and the cowardly men who would flee and leave their families behind rather than stand their ground and fight? You're darn right I am. So I'll wait for the reformation and see how I feel about it then. Still, not much has changed in 1300 years. I certainly won't hold my breath.
46
Don't blame the US when European nations would not participate.
1
it must be understood the Europe and the West did go through a reformation which was followed by an enlightenment. it took a long time, and sometimes it was violent. but that's how we got to where we are. as bad as it was, cultures that did not go through this process including Islamic cultures, are worse off today.
4
The author calls the migrants the "new Europeans." Does he know what it takes to be a European? To be a European, one has to know the history, culture and customs of Europe well. One blends in so well, that one is hardly felt as a stranger.
43
Perhaps not, because he is American. However imperfect, the US is a multicultural society where our shared identity is rooted in shared ideals, not bloodlines -- ideals that are articulated in our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution. Like all humans everywhere, we often fall short of our best values. We do not uphold our ideals perfectly, but the determination to strive for a "more perfect union" is at the core of our shared values as a society.
We strive to honor the principle that where you or parents came from, what food you eat and what language you speak, what music you love and what stories you remember, what religion you practice, and how you dress -- these are part of the richness you bring to this country. But most important are the qualities of your character and your heart. We are all human beings, and in a troubled world on a tiny planet, we need to find the best in ourselves and in each other.
We strive to honor the principle that where you or parents came from, what food you eat and what language you speak, what music you love and what stories you remember, what religion you practice, and how you dress -- these are part of the richness you bring to this country. But most important are the qualities of your character and your heart. We are all human beings, and in a troubled world on a tiny planet, we need to find the best in ourselves and in each other.
How many people that you would define as Europeans actually know European history, language, culture? And where do you draw the line about knowing enough so that one qualifies for being European? This is a rather disturbing statement you are bringing to the discussion here.
When I saw the picture of the woman in the head scarf, next to "new European" i really didn't feel like reading the article. Just did so because a friend wants to discuss it.
9
I stayed 9 months in Munich Bavaria and befriended a local truck driver.
I ended up meeting him in Berlin and remember him swearing at the Turkish families he saw enjoying a picnic in the Tiergarten - as if they were stealing his job and his culture.
I saw nice people having a pleasant time - but he was raised in an insular racist society - probably the low wage low education angry white male sub-culture (Hitler started his putsch in Munich).
So the stupid white angry male - is easily swayed by racist demagogues - hey I'm also remembering the McCarthy era in 1950's USA - failing politician - how to get attention - ah - Reds Under the Bed !
I ended up meeting him in Berlin and remember him swearing at the Turkish families he saw enjoying a picnic in the Tiergarten - as if they were stealing his job and his culture.
I saw nice people having a pleasant time - but he was raised in an insular racist society - probably the low wage low education angry white male sub-culture (Hitler started his putsch in Munich).
So the stupid white angry male - is easily swayed by racist demagogues - hey I'm also remembering the McCarthy era in 1950's USA - failing politician - how to get attention - ah - Reds Under the Bed !
9
Donald Trump voters not any different, comes to mind
2
No medicine, not matter how much good it can do, won't also prove toxic when given in too big of a dose. It's hard to blame people who are probably well-intending under normal and reasonable circumstances, for reacting adversely when too much is asked of them to swallow too quickly. It doesn't mean they're bad, just simply human. Remember to help the recipients as much as the refugees, then maybe things can get better.
7
With so many people moving into localized places in the world,the globe will wobble and shift off its current axis. Europe will become the new arctic. Maybe white people can move to the pole and live under palm trees?
1
I just returned from a one-month volunteer trip while on sabbatical with a housing aid group for refugees in Germany, and wanted to share some surprising observations:
-- A very large number, perhaps a solid majority, of our Syrian and Iraqi refugees were Christians and minority Yazidis fleeing ISIS. I don't know if our group was characteristic of the total but they were not "pre-sorted" in any way, and among our refugee cohorts (rotating groups of 300 people each week), around 60% were Christians, along with large numbers of Yazidis and even secular atheists.
- Even among the Muslim migrants, an extraordinary number are seeking out churches for Christian conversion. Not only Syrians and Iraqis but also Egyptians, Afghans, Iranians were converting and even taking on European names (including surnames). While some may have been hoping to boost asylum chances, the local pastors all insisted that the vast majority were sincere, and that ironically the Middle East migrant influx is reviving the German churches.
- Among the Muslim migrants, a solid majority were well-behaved, well-educated and law-abiding. Unfortunately, a vocal minority were indeed very disruptive and even criminal, and while some did commit crimes against German locals, most of their targets were other migrants (true refugees) fleeing ISIS. Merkel's failure to better distinguish such economic migrants from true refugees is a key reason she is losing her grip on power as her popularity continues to tumble.
-- A very large number, perhaps a solid majority, of our Syrian and Iraqi refugees were Christians and minority Yazidis fleeing ISIS. I don't know if our group was characteristic of the total but they were not "pre-sorted" in any way, and among our refugee cohorts (rotating groups of 300 people each week), around 60% were Christians, along with large numbers of Yazidis and even secular atheists.
- Even among the Muslim migrants, an extraordinary number are seeking out churches for Christian conversion. Not only Syrians and Iraqis but also Egyptians, Afghans, Iranians were converting and even taking on European names (including surnames). While some may have been hoping to boost asylum chances, the local pastors all insisted that the vast majority were sincere, and that ironically the Middle East migrant influx is reviving the German churches.
- Among the Muslim migrants, a solid majority were well-behaved, well-educated and law-abiding. Unfortunately, a vocal minority were indeed very disruptive and even criminal, and while some did commit crimes against German locals, most of their targets were other migrants (true refugees) fleeing ISIS. Merkel's failure to better distinguish such economic migrants from true refugees is a key reason she is losing her grip on power as her popularity continues to tumble.
9
No recommendations for your comment! Even Times readers have become so terrified of the other that they would rather upvote xenophobic, groundless assertions.
Thanks for going out there and seeing for yourself. If more of us did the same, we would be far smarter as a people.
Thanks for going out there and seeing for yourself. If more of us did the same, we would be far smarter as a people.
The naivete shining through your comment is astounding. Muslims in Germany "converting" to Christianity is a sham aimed at increasing their chances for asylum (after all, as Christians the would be "persecuted" if they had to go back).
4
@Radek, please provide the name of the "housing aid group for refugees in Germany" or give the source of your statistics about "solid majority...60% Christian, well-educated, etc. etc." You are absolutely right that economic migrants make up more than 60% of these "refugees" and just used the chaos at the border to get into Europe--along with terrorists and who knows what else. However, I don't believe your "volunteer trip on sabbatical" white lie. If you have solid statistics, give them, but drop this "I was there" rubbish. You know it is not true.
5
The brave are not those who have no fear rather who are afraid yet confront it.
The priest Thomas Graf von Rechberg epitomizes this when he personally welcomes and invests in the well being of the Muslim refugees (hoping for the best outcome) but at the same time he legitimately fears that many of them will turn radical one day and attack the very society that they grew up in as it happened in France, Belgium, Spain and so on ... (almost guaranteed with some second and third generation maladjusted German Muslim refugee kids citing a stream of grievances linked to their Islamic identity).
Very very brave man and very compassionate.
His words:
"Many of them, he predicted, would come to live in Muslim-majority ghettos like those in Paris, “where they don’t do anything, don’t work and then watch some stupid Internet films, and then some will carry out terrorist attacks,” he said. “I can’t change that. I can only accept it, and that will be our future.”
The priest Thomas Graf von Rechberg epitomizes this when he personally welcomes and invests in the well being of the Muslim refugees (hoping for the best outcome) but at the same time he legitimately fears that many of them will turn radical one day and attack the very society that they grew up in as it happened in France, Belgium, Spain and so on ... (almost guaranteed with some second and third generation maladjusted German Muslim refugee kids citing a stream of grievances linked to their Islamic identity).
Very very brave man and very compassionate.
His words:
"Many of them, he predicted, would come to live in Muslim-majority ghettos like those in Paris, “where they don’t do anything, don’t work and then watch some stupid Internet films, and then some will carry out terrorist attacks,” he said. “I can’t change that. I can only accept it, and that will be our future.”
6
It is time to be more American: To create a nation from a wide diversity of immigrants while upholding humanitarian imperatives.
The overwhelming majority of refugees took the life-threatening risk to go to Europe to flee war and its accompanying problems. They have a different cultural background, which will cause friction. But their dreams of a life away from the ruins of ongoing war, their will for a better life their families - they are the same as everybody else's. It's the American dream, plus there's a war in your homeland.
The benefits refugees receive in Germany are based on the "existential minimum" Germans receive. To suggest that one deserves less than that just because one doesn't know Bavarian folk songs is reprehensible. The difficulties of integrating a diverse society must never lead us to forget what we owe people for humanitarian reasons - what we owe them because they deserve the same respect as any fellow countryman.
The overwhelming majority of refugees took the life-threatening risk to go to Europe to flee war and its accompanying problems. They have a different cultural background, which will cause friction. But their dreams of a life away from the ruins of ongoing war, their will for a better life their families - they are the same as everybody else's. It's the American dream, plus there's a war in your homeland.
The benefits refugees receive in Germany are based on the "existential minimum" Germans receive. To suggest that one deserves less than that just because one doesn't know Bavarian folk songs is reprehensible. The difficulties of integrating a diverse society must never lead us to forget what we owe people for humanitarian reasons - what we owe them because they deserve the same respect as any fellow countryman.
4
Please do not confound the ethos of the US and of European countries. The US is built on diversity of cultures and on immigration. European countries were not, and should not, be forced to emulate the US way.
3
Sorry. You really do sound like an American. But you have probably noticed that Germany is not America, and going 'multi-kulti' (multi-cultural) doesn't happen overnight. Not even in Berlin (I know, I'm from there too).
Fact is, Germany is overwhelmed. And forcing more refugees and migrants onto the native population will surely backfire at one point, or another.
Yes. The war is terrible, and what these people have gone through is terrible. But the tide is changing throughout Europe. The days of 'Willkommenskultur' and Merkel's "Wir Schaffen Das!" are over. And the 'American Dream' is not necessarily the German one.
Fact is, Germany is overwhelmed. And forcing more refugees and migrants onto the native population will surely backfire at one point, or another.
Yes. The war is terrible, and what these people have gone through is terrible. But the tide is changing throughout Europe. The days of 'Willkommenskultur' and Merkel's "Wir Schaffen Das!" are over. And the 'American Dream' is not necessarily the German one.
4
No, this is very much the wrong approach. The nations of Europe have long histories in ancient tribes that unified or WERE unified together, sometimes even thousands of years ago. They are not exclusive to one race or culture, but the fact is that Germany is not called Germany for fun. The word "German" has existed for over 2000 years, and the word "Frank" to describe someone from Gaul/France has existed for about 1500. The same goes for a huge number of other European nations.
The United States is different. It does not have an ancient history founded in a union of tribes, it was a colonial nation founded by 4-5 different European nations collectively, and since then has always been open to massive amounts of immigration. It can abide enormous amounts of cultural immigrants because American culture itself was built on the "melting pot".
Germany and France and Belgium on the other hand were built on nationalism, on the premise that one culture could have a nation where they would never be oppressed by someone else for speaking a certain language or building certain buildings or eating certain foods. You cannot make these nations multicultural melting pots without fundamentally eroding or even destroying what "Germany" means.
This is not to mention that anyone in the United States would tell you that they do not keep all aspects of their original culture anymore. Melting pots do not preserve culture they create new ones. This would be the death of ancient Euro cultures.
The United States is different. It does not have an ancient history founded in a union of tribes, it was a colonial nation founded by 4-5 different European nations collectively, and since then has always been open to massive amounts of immigration. It can abide enormous amounts of cultural immigrants because American culture itself was built on the "melting pot".
Germany and France and Belgium on the other hand were built on nationalism, on the premise that one culture could have a nation where they would never be oppressed by someone else for speaking a certain language or building certain buildings or eating certain foods. You cannot make these nations multicultural melting pots without fundamentally eroding or even destroying what "Germany" means.
This is not to mention that anyone in the United States would tell you that they do not keep all aspects of their original culture anymore. Melting pots do not preserve culture they create new ones. This would be the death of ancient Euro cultures.
3
While I fully empathize with the plight of refugees, uncontrolled and unchecked flooding-in of migrants can't be accepted by any country. I understand that many of them are victims of conflicts that are not their creation, but so are the local populations of the host nations. Whether they assimilate or how they treat their women are secondary questions to me. The primary question is can or should a country allow continuos illegal (technically) mass immigration. My answer is NO. It's not realistic or desirable, however I am in support of legal and controlled immigration that is helpful for host nations and immigrants alike. On the other hand, we need to ask our politicians how they plan to deal with the mass exodus of local population coming to our country, when they plan to support or oppose the next regime change in other parts of the world.
18
The title is misleading. Political asylum is a temporary measure. At the height of the Yugoslav civil war in the early 1990s a roughly equal number of Yugoslavs sought political asylum in Germany. As this article mentions, about a third were Muslims from Bosnia and Kosovo. Once the conflict concluded most returned home. German culture did not change. The same is going to happen with the Syrians.
5
Kudos to the Times for painting a honest picture of the situation. Of
course this is a challenge. Let's be clear though: the authorities
still draw a clear line between refugees (people fleeing from war) and
immigrants. This is why many of the characters in the article spend
much time in limbo without knowing whether they will be granted this
status. Merkel's "invitation" never was an open invitation for
immigration but the only humane reaction any sensible leader can have:
shelter those who are fleeing prosecution and war.
It's remarkable how a minority of people who are only marginally
affected by this situation keeps screaming and drawing everybody into
hysteria. Let's remember that xenophobia is always highest in places
with the lowest proportion of foreigners. As for this forum, I bet
many of the commenters do not know what they are talking about when
they distribute their unfounded xenophobic and racist thoughts.
For reference, while I disagree with many of Ms Merkel's policies, I'm
with her on helping out those in need. I grew up in Germany, pay my
taxes there and I am happy to give to help those whose life is
threatened elsewhere.
course this is a challenge. Let's be clear though: the authorities
still draw a clear line between refugees (people fleeing from war) and
immigrants. This is why many of the characters in the article spend
much time in limbo without knowing whether they will be granted this
status. Merkel's "invitation" never was an open invitation for
immigration but the only humane reaction any sensible leader can have:
shelter those who are fleeing prosecution and war.
It's remarkable how a minority of people who are only marginally
affected by this situation keeps screaming and drawing everybody into
hysteria. Let's remember that xenophobia is always highest in places
with the lowest proportion of foreigners. As for this forum, I bet
many of the commenters do not know what they are talking about when
they distribute their unfounded xenophobic and racist thoughts.
For reference, while I disagree with many of Ms Merkel's policies, I'm
with her on helping out those in need. I grew up in Germany, pay my
taxes there and I am happy to give to help those whose life is
threatened elsewhere.
8
Reading all the comments it is impressive to me to see how many Americans whose country is based on immigration are so anti-immigration.
God's Own Country ?
Or Hate Thy Neigbor ?
God's Own Country ?
Or Hate Thy Neigbor ?
4
F. Thomas, Paris, France - The United States anti-immigration, no. You might liken this New Europeans "immigration" to the "immigration" of Germans into Paris in June, 1940.
The US accepts for residence over one million legal immigrants each and every year. That is more than any other country in the world.
The US accepts for residence over one million legal immigrants each and every year. That is more than any other country in the world.
7
So, where do Slaves fit in??-- Because that's part of this country's history too.
Besides, France is also having similar problems these days. And the recent attacks have probably not earned Muslim refugees many new friends.
Besides, France is also having similar problems these days. And the recent attacks have probably not earned Muslim refugees many new friends.
3
we are against illegal immigration, not immigrants
9
I love how liberal the NYT is. The "new Europeans" indeed. In so saying, you've touched on the very fear of everyone here who actually values Western civilization and is now seeing it being taken over by this hoard of Muslims who do not value any aspect of Western life and society: equal rights for all, education, separation of church and state. The list goes on. In the span of just one year, I have now seen a proliferation of homeless Muslims perched outside every grocery store and bakery mumbling in Arabic, wailing around trying to garner pity (as if the German gov't is not doling out enough free apartments and monthly stipend), have had to read signs at the local pool and on social media which areas to avoid now due to a gathering of aggressive migrants who assault women, I have had to learn that my cousins in high school are now being told to dress more modestly so as not to offend the new Muslim kids, I have to hear from an aunt who owns a boutique that migrants came in picking up hundreds of euros worth of clothing and told the German gov't will cover the costs (& guess what? When she called to complain about the shoplifting, she was told by German officials to allow it), I have to hear now that I can't go to the local Christmas markets because they are potential bomb sites, I am warned against taking the train due to Muslim extremists. The list goes on. Thanks Merkel, thanks a lot, from every German who is forbidden from speaking up & for the future generations.
48
A precondition for any would-be immigrant to the West would be to sign a preamble where they recognize that:
-immigration is a privilege not a right
-men and women are equal and imposing men's will on wives, daughters, relatives lives is not allowed in their host country
- they will adapt to the host culture rather than impose their own
- evidence of criminality or jihadism is grounds for immediate deportation
- sexual harassment leads to immediate loss of benefits and deportation
- using religion as a pretext for harassing others or denying them their rights is a crime
- they may have to go back to the country of origin should the conditions there change or should the will of the citizen in their host country shift
It is difficult for me to believe how entitled some of the migrants feel to welfare, free housing, education etc. ...all the while we know that they would not dream of giving, say, Christians, these rights in their own countries. The West should wake up and smell the coffee.
-immigration is a privilege not a right
-men and women are equal and imposing men's will on wives, daughters, relatives lives is not allowed in their host country
- they will adapt to the host culture rather than impose their own
- evidence of criminality or jihadism is grounds for immediate deportation
- sexual harassment leads to immediate loss of benefits and deportation
- using religion as a pretext for harassing others or denying them their rights is a crime
- they may have to go back to the country of origin should the conditions there change or should the will of the citizen in their host country shift
It is difficult for me to believe how entitled some of the migrants feel to welfare, free housing, education etc. ...all the while we know that they would not dream of giving, say, Christians, these rights in their own countries. The West should wake up and smell the coffee.
20
Christmas and Hannuka in Saudi Arabia? No?
What!!?
What!!?
Well said.
1
Why are so many young men fleeing Syria? Supposedly, they love their country and eventually want to go home but they refuse to fight for the stability of their own country. Interesting. You cannot ask others to fight for your freedom, if you select to pass your time in Europe to study. ( The young males in these photographs are young and fit and they seem to be spending their time smoking and drinking tea or coffee. )
13
It is rather absurd to discuss if Middle East Muslims are able to become "European" when most of the members of the European Union cannot loosen their ethnic and nationalist heritages enough to assimilate into the EU. If the Germans are angry that their Chancellor opened their borders to unrestricted immigration, you can only imagine the ire of the rest of the EU partners who were not consulted. Whether a few thousand Syrians can assimilate is of little concern when the EU structure is collapsing under its bureaucracy and ineptitude. If Europe cannot control its borders, it will cease to exist. The British exit in June will start the domino chain reaction. The EU will not survive this challenge certainly in the same form as today. The myth of a united Europe is fading in the spotlight of the harsh reality of a failed Muslim world. The EU's first priority should be to prevent its own failure.
11
I want to add my two cents around some of the common comments:
Why young men are coming here and not fight in their country? Please read more about the war in Syria. There are many sects fighting and if you do not agree with them, you are certain age, and you want to be alive, you are the only kind of person who can easily walk thousands of miles to get to anywhere where there is no war - those people are clearly mostly young men. No kids or women with small children can walk and become refugees as easily .
Why Europe and not Saudis, Turkey or some other Middle Eastern country? Again people need to be educated a bit more. Those countries are not any better than the ones fighting. The refugees will be either not allowed or be kept in the ghetto just like Jordan or Lebanon does with the Philistines.
Their religion is wrong and they wont fit mantra? The reason France has muslim problem is exactly same reason America (white america) thinks they have problem with black americans. If you create two-tier system of jobs, and economics, you will have ghettos and then crime. US puts its black men of exactly same age as the most refugees in jail and Europe does the same with anyone not white. Same thing, Same result.
Solution: The world is changing. There will be no more more homogeneous countries. Diversity will rule so allow fair jobs, education and culture among all and aim to have YOUR country be the first economically and minimize the internal rupture based on colour of skin.
Why young men are coming here and not fight in their country? Please read more about the war in Syria. There are many sects fighting and if you do not agree with them, you are certain age, and you want to be alive, you are the only kind of person who can easily walk thousands of miles to get to anywhere where there is no war - those people are clearly mostly young men. No kids or women with small children can walk and become refugees as easily .
Why Europe and not Saudis, Turkey or some other Middle Eastern country? Again people need to be educated a bit more. Those countries are not any better than the ones fighting. The refugees will be either not allowed or be kept in the ghetto just like Jordan or Lebanon does with the Philistines.
Their religion is wrong and they wont fit mantra? The reason France has muslim problem is exactly same reason America (white america) thinks they have problem with black americans. If you create two-tier system of jobs, and economics, you will have ghettos and then crime. US puts its black men of exactly same age as the most refugees in jail and Europe does the same with anyone not white. Same thing, Same result.
Solution: The world is changing. There will be no more more homogeneous countries. Diversity will rule so allow fair jobs, education and culture among all and aim to have YOUR country be the first economically and minimize the internal rupture based on colour of skin.
3
Contempt for Islam is based on Islamic contempt for Jews, non-Muslims and women not on skin color. There are dozens of Muslim nations and no reason why Muslims from Syria cannot reside there.
12
You clearly do not understand the primal human desire for protecting, practicing, and perpetuating one's own identity, culture, language, and religious beliefs.
2
How is Canada addressing the issues faced by members of indigenous Native American tribes these days?
1
Here's a novel thought: Germans don't want the immigrants just because they don't want them. That's all. No further explanation required. Germany, and Western Europe and the U.S., claim to be democracies. Yet these policies are dictated by a few people in seats of power with no regard for citizens with generations of roots in the country want.
24
Not to be offensive. But the level of simplicity involved in your deduction is nothing less than mind-boggling.
There is far more depth to the German mentality than you allow for.
There is far more depth to the German mentality than you allow for.
I just cannot believe how much misinformation there is within this comments section. Is this Fox News?
How about thinking for ONE second about what it would be like to have your town, city, and country DESTROYED by war.
Where is the humanity? I don't see any in these comments. A lot of people just thinking about themselves.
This is why there is war in the first place.
How about thinking for ONE second about what it would be like to have your town, city, and country DESTROYED by war.
Where is the humanity? I don't see any in these comments. A lot of people just thinking about themselves.
This is why there is war in the first place.
8
Do not be unfair and do not confound issues. Nobody here has said that authentic refugees are undeserving of asylum. The issues people rightly raise here, and which reflect majority European opinion, have to do with economic immigrants from safer countries pretending to be refugees, with the perils of Islam as opposed to Western liberal values, and to the real dangers Europeans are experiencing more and more due to this unchecked mass Muslim immigration.
13
Today they are the new Europeans. If the present trend is not curtailed or reversed, tomorrow they are on a fast trajectory to totally replace the Europeans, considering their much higher birth rates. The old Europeans should ask themselves if this is what they actually want for their countries, to financially fund and underwrite the replacement of their culture, traditions, religion & genetic heritage. History has shown that it has happened before - present day Turkey used to be Greek Asia Minor / Byzantium, Georgia and Armenia, and it will happen again unless the EU leadership does not wake up to the great risk that it faces.
25
You raise a valid point. Native Americans had values that sustained the earth, which they worshipped and cared for. Then came mass immigration of whites from Europe, who radically changed the demographics of the continent. Now we have a climate crisis based on our addiction to oil and war, which might never have happened if we had pursued more sustainable goals from the outset.
If only this mass migration had been stopped, your comment - the greatest crime of all mankind - could have been prevented.
If only this mass migration had been stopped, your comment - the greatest crime of all mankind - could have been prevented.
Present day US just a few hundred years ago was a continent that had been peopled for thousands of years by a multitude of indigenous nations. Look what the white invaders did to them -- an ugly cautionary tale about treating strangers with welcome.
However, we have become a multicultural society, adapting every few decades to new migrations and immigrant populations, allowing our shared principles rather than narrow bloodlines to define our shared destiny.
However, we have become a multicultural society, adapting every few decades to new migrations and immigrant populations, allowing our shared principles rather than narrow bloodlines to define our shared destiny.
You're right, but there's no need to look as far back. Lebanon was majority Christian until the 1960s, and now it's mostly Muslim. The ethnic cleansing of Christians which happened in the Middle East and North Africa is continuing today.
9
Personally, I'd love to jump 100 years into the future and see how this all unfolds. What will be the repercussions? What will Europe look like? What will Syria look like? We're giving future historians quite a bit to examine.
6
Hate to say it, but try just four decades. The future has already been played out in France, Spain, Malmo Sweden, and Belgium. Germany opened up its heart and good will. Whether or not there will be reciprocity by its new refugees remains to be seen. Don't bet on warm feelings of gratitude.
10
You don't have to jump more than 10 years. Know that any military person from the US will predict that Europe is done by then. Invaders have come and will reproduce, spread and conquer Europe very soon. Europeans have very little fight in them. Islam knows this quite well and has no respect for such weakness. Christian charity is a weakness to them.
11
Indeed, there's no place like home. Like Yasser, many Syrians, who had fled an atrocious war in their country, arrived at this quaint spot, only to find themselves miserable and homesick.
The tranquillity and safety don't mean much to them, if their hearts are still with their families in Syria. Theoretically Yasser is entitled to reunification with his wife. But the German authorities are aware of the numbers they would have to let in, if everybody brings his/her families over.
There is also the dilemma of how much Germany can spend and how far the refugees want to integrate. Many like Yasser, who don't feel themselves at home in their host country would return, once the war ends in Syria. The German authorities are also wary of investing too much in these refugees - many of whom lack proper education - only to find them leaving, after billions spent on them.
The tranquillity and safety don't mean much to them, if their hearts are still with their families in Syria. Theoretically Yasser is entitled to reunification with his wife. But the German authorities are aware of the numbers they would have to let in, if everybody brings his/her families over.
There is also the dilemma of how much Germany can spend and how far the refugees want to integrate. Many like Yasser, who don't feel themselves at home in their host country would return, once the war ends in Syria. The German authorities are also wary of investing too much in these refugees - many of whom lack proper education - only to find them leaving, after billions spent on them.
9
The rules for family repatriation in Germany have changed. Yasser will probably not be seeing his wife, or any other family member in Syria any time soon.
1
Excellent article, thanks!
2
Thank you to Mr. Angelos and the New York Times for an informative look inside the situation in Europe and making both the German people receiving the migrants and the migrants themselves real people to me.
4
So much ignorance in these comments. If any of you people who worry about importing misogyny were to spend any time in the Middle East - places like Lebanon, Egypt, Kuwait - you would know that there is nothing preventing women from 'having jobs'. The Muslim world has had eight female leaders. America has had: none. Women I have met in all those countries are strong, fearsome individuals, many of whom hold high-ranking positions in major corporations.
What I think this article does well is highlight just how readily we are terrified by 'the other', even in the absence of factual data. The characters in the story demonstrate this, as do many of those commenting.
What I think this article does well is highlight just how readily we are terrified by 'the other', even in the absence of factual data. The characters in the story demonstrate this, as do many of those commenting.
2
Your attempts to downplay the profound sexism of the Muslim world are laughable.
6
I'm not saying it doesn't exist. Just that you have likely formed stereotypes based on nearly no real data or personal experience.
First an foremost, congratulations for this well researched article. I think what this article lets you conjecture is how much effort has to be put into the integration of migrants. And thereby I am not referring solely to the financial aspect. Our societies are rich but also tend to be exclusive, even for natives, since we mainly define us by our work. In order to enable participation immense support has to be brought to the individual. It certainly can be done for a certain amount of people, but it should also be clear that there are limits of how many people a society can integrate satisfactorily.
On the other hand, you have those incurable far-right people who were telling the same story of criminal immigrants since forever and who are now seizing the moment to promote their bitter views. I like that Germany has become an open and pluralistic society, and I think that we have the capacity to help many of those who have come. It is not the migrants fault that our politicians have handled it so poorly, made false promises (Merkel) and reacted not until the far-right party already abused the partly understandable fears in the population.
A small note: The saying 'painting the devil onto the Wall' is always meant as imagining the worst possible event/outcome and is used when self reflecting that one was being very pessimistic (and probably not realistic).
Thus the reverend has probably used it to attenuate his statement.
Also, Merkels predecessor was Schröder.
On the other hand, you have those incurable far-right people who were telling the same story of criminal immigrants since forever and who are now seizing the moment to promote their bitter views. I like that Germany has become an open and pluralistic society, and I think that we have the capacity to help many of those who have come. It is not the migrants fault that our politicians have handled it so poorly, made false promises (Merkel) and reacted not until the far-right party already abused the partly understandable fears in the population.
A small note: The saying 'painting the devil onto the Wall' is always meant as imagining the worst possible event/outcome and is used when self reflecting that one was being very pessimistic (and probably not realistic).
Thus the reverend has probably used it to attenuate his statement.
Also, Merkels predecessor was Schröder.
1
This article was NOT that well researched. The author asks the Mayor of Freilassing about rapes. Why ask only him? The author repeats this hackneyed story about Denmark "passed a law enabling authorities to seize jewelry and cash..." without pointing out that this practice is used also in Bavarian and has been used in Switzerland for many years. Why not some research on that? One of the biggest problems with the horde of illegal migrants who entered Germany last year is getting them OUT again when they are not given asylum. For the past 10 years, Germany has let these people stay in Germany illegally, but has not wanted to bother with the expense and possible violence needed to forcibly deport these failed asylum seekers. This deportation is (currently) the responsibility of the lander--not the federal government. The federal government said just this week that each Land should plan on doubling its deportation numbers--voluntary or involuntary. That is why there were more than 400000 illegal migrants living in Germany even before this horde arrive last year, either hiding, working illegally, involved in some other criminal enterprise, etc. Again...the author didn't do any research on this, but makes sure Germans are portrayed as backward, unfriendly, protoNazis. Bavarians "cultural heritage" is seen as nothing more than Oktoberfest and beer, not the Maiandacht or these nuns. So...this article was NOT well-researched or thought out. And the leading question...why SHOULD Eisenarzt have to accommodate, for example, 20 Pakistanis who could not find Bavaria, or Munchen, or even Germany on a map. Their families built the place and pay the taxes. Who are you to shame them when they DON'T want to support these people.
1
I think part of the difficulty here is that many people think of refugees as people who literally have nothing left at home and are fleeing to save their lives (and in doing so, risking their lives as well). This brings up images of Jews in WWII, Vietnamese boat people, and the Lost Boys of Sudan. A man leaving his middle-class family and lifestyle (albeit in a very dangerous region) to pursue a better life for them sounds more like your typical immigrant seeking greener pastures. Certainly, there are Syrians who are legitimately fleeing persecution, but it's hard to feel extra sympathy for someone like Yasser - if home was safe enough to leave your wife and children (possibly the most vulnerable people of all), should you really be considered a refugee?
17
While I fully empathize with the plight of refugees, uncontrolled and unchecked flooding-in of migrants can't be accepted by any country. I understand that many of them are victims of conflicts that are not their creation, but so are the local populations of the host nations. Whether they assimilate or how they treat their women are secondary questions to me. The primary question is can or should a country allow continuos illegal (technically) mass immigration. My answer is NO. It's not realistic or desirable, however I am in support of legal and controlled immigration that is helpful for host nations and immigrants alike. On the other hand, we need to ask our politicians how they plan to deal with the mass exodus of local population coming to our country, when they plan to support or oppose the next regime change in other parts of the world.
8
In order for refugees to integrate into their new environment, they have to be few and wide apart. If they are not, they would immediately do as they did in France, recreating their own societies into their new land. The refugees might be happy, but I am not so sure about their children. There is a very good old French movie (in terms of quality, it is depressing) called "Heine", "hatred" .It depicts the immigrant children and their rejection of French society. It probably portrays the milieu from which some of the terrorist emerged. That should give pause to opening the door to huge amount of people without adequate preparation.
5
The article should be called "The New Europe."
4
How about "the new Europe tries to cope with the old backward religion and its adherents"
4
Legal and controlled migration may be a good thing, as it helped many less populated countries across the world to boost their industrial growth. However, uncontrolled open ended flooding of refugees can't be accepted by any nation. I fully sympathize with the plight of refugees, and I agree that many of them are victims of conflicts that are not their creation. But so are the populations of the host nations. Whether the refugees assimilate with the local culture or how they treat their women are important, but secondary questions to me. The primary question is whether any country should allow illegal (in technical terms) flooding-in of refugees. My answer is a sad NO. Sad, because although I fully empathize with their plight, I also fully understand the concerns among the local population of the host nations. For us, the lesson should be that before our politicians plan supporting or opposing the next regime change in other parts of the world, they need to provide answers to us about how they will deal with the consequences such as mass exodus of the local population. I guess we owe that accountability from them as citizens. Nice balanced article by the way!
1
An honest discussion needs to be had on the acculturation and assimilation issues for women and men who have been inculcated into belief systems that do not see women as equals. The West has fought long and hard for equality for women and the fight still continues.
Like Lilith in Texas, there are women in burkas in the States. Yes, we have 'freedom of religion' but what does that mean when the woman in a burka can only go somewhere escorted by her husband and must walk behind him. What does that demonstrate to children of any Western country?
This is completely incompatible with values in the West. And bringing this up shouldn't render anyone a 'xenophobe' - or that the door on immigration should be shut. It means to immigrate to the West, newcomers should be required to adopt Western values and norms, not the other way around.
Like Lilith in Texas, there are women in burkas in the States. Yes, we have 'freedom of religion' but what does that mean when the woman in a burka can only go somewhere escorted by her husband and must walk behind him. What does that demonstrate to children of any Western country?
This is completely incompatible with values in the West. And bringing this up shouldn't render anyone a 'xenophobe' - or that the door on immigration should be shut. It means to immigrate to the West, newcomers should be required to adopt Western values and norms, not the other way around.
15
"Kamm said he would never forget the looks on their faces. “Pure exhaustion, pure fear,” he said, exhaling so deeply that his lips flapped together. "
That's ok marginalization, contempt, and unavoidably hate will soon be the looks of generations of their descendants...
That's ok marginalization, contempt, and unavoidably hate will soon be the looks of generations of their descendants...
1
Most of Europe has been a very open and welcoming place, with little or no pressure on immigrants to integrate or even work after their arrival. France and Belgium in particular have been very generous by even allowing immigrants to bring over their families and marry people from their home country (= resetting integration), to build their own neighbourhoods in which they could live and run their businesses, thereby ignoring a lot of their host country's culture, values, gender roles, etc.
Children growing up in these neighbourhoods often end up not feeling like citizens of their country nor of the one their parents/grandparents came from.
Another mistake has been to ignore that our Western freedom, lifestyle and social values can be influenced and therefore need to be protected, much like voters need to be protected against unlimited political TV ads.
When women get stared down and/or called names when wearing short skirts, it inevitably shifts the expectation from men to behave to women to as men expect (i.e. dressing "appropriately" and keeping a low profile).
We need to put a much higher price on both our safety and social progress, paradoxically that could mean rejecting some aspects of the Geneva convention.
Children growing up in these neighbourhoods often end up not feeling like citizens of their country nor of the one their parents/grandparents came from.
Another mistake has been to ignore that our Western freedom, lifestyle and social values can be influenced and therefore need to be protected, much like voters need to be protected against unlimited political TV ads.
When women get stared down and/or called names when wearing short skirts, it inevitably shifts the expectation from men to behave to women to as men expect (i.e. dressing "appropriately" and keeping a low profile).
We need to put a much higher price on both our safety and social progress, paradoxically that could mean rejecting some aspects of the Geneva convention.
7
They are not the new europeans. There is no such thing as being a european anyway.
They can become our allies at best, if they are willing to share our commitments - which many of would like to do, if we just would know what these commitments are. Looking at our own sorrowful state of morality, we have little to offer but some occasional idle talk.
And by the way, i don't like all these commenters bothering about the cultural impact. I just have to a look at all these right-wingers, these trump wannabes, and they are a total disgrace for representing a country of poets and philosophers. And these ignoramuses, these bier-fest hillbillies, they are blubbering out lodest.
They can become our allies at best, if they are willing to share our commitments - which many of would like to do, if we just would know what these commitments are. Looking at our own sorrowful state of morality, we have little to offer but some occasional idle talk.
And by the way, i don't like all these commenters bothering about the cultural impact. I just have to a look at all these right-wingers, these trump wannabes, and they are a total disgrace for representing a country of poets and philosophers. And these ignoramuses, these bier-fest hillbillies, they are blubbering out lodest.
7
Those are a lot of 'ifs", and there's no guarantee any of them will come to pass.
And I disagree with you. They are not European. That is why they need to be culturally integrated in the first place. To ignore this fact, and condemn all comments being made about the "cultural impact" is folly.
A large segment of the German population is very concerned. That is why they vote Alternative für Deutschland (AfD).
It's one thing to live in a big city like Frankfurt or Berlin, bu when you live in a small 'dorf' (village), things look different.
And I disagree with you. They are not European. That is why they need to be culturally integrated in the first place. To ignore this fact, and condemn all comments being made about the "cultural impact" is folly.
A large segment of the German population is very concerned. That is why they vote Alternative für Deutschland (AfD).
It's one thing to live in a big city like Frankfurt or Berlin, bu when you live in a small 'dorf' (village), things look different.
2
The village has a population of 1,400 and its taking 200 migrants, meaning the migrants are only a small minority right?
Wrong.
Firstly the Germans living in the village would have a much older age profile. Perhaps a third are pensioners. The few young people there would likely have the German birth rate of 1.3 per woman. Contrast this with the young fertile Muslim migrants with a birtrate closer to 4, plus their right for family reunification. Fast forward 50 years? The village is 80% Muslim. And there's nothing exaggerated about that projection.
Wrong.
Firstly the Germans living in the village would have a much older age profile. Perhaps a third are pensioners. The few young people there would likely have the German birth rate of 1.3 per woman. Contrast this with the young fertile Muslim migrants with a birtrate closer to 4, plus their right for family reunification. Fast forward 50 years? The village is 80% Muslim. And there's nothing exaggerated about that projection.
51
As the mayor pointed out that won't happen. Almost all will move to metropolitan areas to find work and live in the midst of the like-minded.
This whole fertility argument is ridiculous, especially in this context. We all know that immigrants (like nobody who is young) want to live in German cottages, just because there is no perspective (career, education, cultural life, etc.), so at the first possibility they will probably move to a larger city. And then to come back to the fertility argument, there children will be Germans in the first place and then Muslims (not even safe as I have friends who are not really Muslims though there parents are from Turkey, that is a choice not something determined) and i think the further we push them into alienation (with arguments like they procreate so much,..) the more we take the chance for them to become part of our society and to identify with Germans.
1
Right. We're seeing evidence all the time that these immigrants are integrating into German and other European societies-not.
4
Everyone is hysterical about the cultural differences of gender expectations. The key is in the photo, the two little boys. They will be very different then their parents. I teach immigrant students in NYC who come from very conservative backgrounds and places. Children are amazingly adaptive and become a bridge/conduit for the parents. Many parents resist but there is only so much they can do. The hope and future is always in the children.
25
But doesn't that only occur when there is integration or assimilation? What we seem to be seeing is groups trying to recreate the social structure from whence they came. And these groups become separate from the overall public either by choice or by design.
6
Really? The London tube bombers were second generation immigrants. In the UK more than 500 second generation immigrants have joined ISIS in Syria. If anything the problems are not with first generation immigrants but subsequent generations. The original West Indian immigrants to the UK were overwhelmingly model citizens the third and fourth generations are overwhelmingly represented in drug and knife crimes.
7
In Europe, it's not the first generation of Muslim immigrants that become terrorists. It's the second generation who are born in France and Belgium and they are native French speakers but they reject the secularism of European culture. It's the same thing in the U.S., the Boston bombers and the San Bernadino terrorists are second generation (except for the wife) or they came to the U.S. when they were young. They may speak English better than their parents for sure, but I think that you are being too optimistic when you say that your students will adapt to American culture.
5
Yasser is really going to fit in isn't he? This is a marvellous long-term plan for Europe. I mean, what could possibly go wrong?
26
1. Send them all back. Set a deadline, let them leave voluntarily, otherwise send them back. If they can't go back to Syria, Libya, etc, send them to Saudi Arabia, Jordan, or anywhere else in the Middle East.
2. A more important point, why are so many of these men just leaving? They are all (or most) able body men and should be holding their ground and defending their homes and heritage. Why are they leaving? Which leads to my next point.
3. Their integration is mostly unwelcome by their hosts. Most of the immigrants do not seem happy and are in many cases bringing their beliefs (and some absurd cultural rules) with them and creating havoc for their host cultures in the process.
4. As we've already witnessed to the assaults of White German women, in Germany at events, now multiple terrorist attacks, and a whole lot written about how these people don't like their situation at their new home, its time for these people to go back home and figure it out.
5. These people are not intended to assimilate into Western culture. These people are taught for the 1st day of birth to despise anything and everything not like them, especially in the West, and now they come to us first before seeking assistance from their Middle East neighbors. Something is wrong with this and I don't like it one bit.
I do have a feeling there will be a mass deportation since as of this moment, this is no other sensible alternative.
2. A more important point, why are so many of these men just leaving? They are all (or most) able body men and should be holding their ground and defending their homes and heritage. Why are they leaving? Which leads to my next point.
3. Their integration is mostly unwelcome by their hosts. Most of the immigrants do not seem happy and are in many cases bringing their beliefs (and some absurd cultural rules) with them and creating havoc for their host cultures in the process.
4. As we've already witnessed to the assaults of White German women, in Germany at events, now multiple terrorist attacks, and a whole lot written about how these people don't like their situation at their new home, its time for these people to go back home and figure it out.
5. These people are not intended to assimilate into Western culture. These people are taught for the 1st day of birth to despise anything and everything not like them, especially in the West, and now they come to us first before seeking assistance from their Middle East neighbors. Something is wrong with this and I don't like it one bit.
I do have a feeling there will be a mass deportation since as of this moment, this is no other sensible alternative.
33
My own concern is with the view of the kafir held by Orthodox Islam and their children. It plays out not too happily in Belgium and France. How will it play out in Germany?? Deep sigh.
2
Ironically, the anti-German argument for why Germany must take in millions of Muslims only makes sense using racialist logic:
- Either the German people are tainted by hereditary blood guilt for their ancestors' crimes for which they must pay reparations (to random Muslims);
- Or Germans are so genetically formidable that the threat they pose to the rest of the world must be diluted by mass migration.
If you don't actually believe that today's Germans possess either hereditary guilt or hereditary superiority, then it's hard to justify the Merkel government's whim.
- Either the German people are tainted by hereditary blood guilt for their ancestors' crimes for which they must pay reparations (to random Muslims);
- Or Germans are so genetically formidable that the threat they pose to the rest of the world must be diluted by mass migration.
If you don't actually believe that today's Germans possess either hereditary guilt or hereditary superiority, then it's hard to justify the Merkel government's whim.
16
We call it "humanity". Go ahead, google it.
2
Wait a minute. "Tainted hereditary bloodline"??? -- You're not being serious, are you???
Sorry. There is little logic, let alone rationale, to be found in your thesis.
As for why did Angela Merkel do what she did? -- There has been plenty written about it.
Do some research.
Sorry. There is little logic, let alone rationale, to be found in your thesis.
As for why did Angela Merkel do what she did? -- There has been plenty written about it.
Do some research.
I don't think it is unfair to have sympathy for pretty much everyone and every argument in this article. Every side has a point, really. That said, I'd really like to hear more from the women and children left behind in a war zone. How do they feel about all of this? What was the conversation like when the man decided to leave and asked (or told) his family to remain in a war-zone?
21
I think the next step is pretty obvious and commonplace: they gain asylum, then bring in the rest of the family.
I think the "host" population is also aware of what the next step is, which probably adds to the hostility towards Merkel's open doors policy.
I think the "host" population is also aware of what the next step is, which probably adds to the hostility towards Merkel's open doors policy.
6
It really quite fascinating and scary.
A people who, during the first half of the last century, hated everyone who wasn't German, are now welcoming a people who hate everyone who isn't Muslim.
A people who, during the first half of the last century, hated everyone who wasn't German, are now welcoming a people who hate everyone who isn't Muslim.
38
Women are too compassionate and too empathetic to be heads of state.
The reason that most leaders have historically been men is not because women are oppressed, it's because male biology is better suited at making the difficult decisions that ensure that your people survive, while other people perish.
There is no easier softer way. If you try and fix all the suffering in the world through open doors and compassion, you will find that your State is not long for this world.
The reason that most leaders have historically been men is not because women are oppressed, it's because male biology is better suited at making the difficult decisions that ensure that your people survive, while other people perish.
There is no easier softer way. If you try and fix all the suffering in the world through open doors and compassion, you will find that your State is not long for this world.
9
A little sexist are we? And men have done such a fine job....right?
4
Margaret Thatcher ? (Among others). NEVER underestimate the capabilities of women.
2
@sw sanfranciso who wrote:"Isn't the question then not just whether we'd be importing terrorists (Europe has, per Interpol and Frontex), but why Obama and others wish to bring hundreds of thousands of misogynists to America who will refuse to let women exercise their equal rights, refuse to shake hands with women or interact with them professionally, etc?
Because the USA is an immigrant country, your ancestors, unless Native American ain't from here. And one of the founder of WHATASPP is I believe is of Syrian ancestry. USA a needs a careful vetting system, and then over to you refugees - refugees need to really want to this, and show gratitude by being the best you can be.
Because the USA is an immigrant country, your ancestors, unless Native American ain't from here. And one of the founder of WHATASPP is I believe is of Syrian ancestry. USA a needs a careful vetting system, and then over to you refugees - refugees need to really want to this, and show gratitude by being the best you can be.
1
Isn't it amazing that almost every Afghan ''refugee'' has worked as a translator for the US army?
15
And isn't it amazing that EVERY Afghan male is being hunted by the Taliban--even though there are approximately 200000 Afghan men sitting here in Germany asking for asylum and only about 30000 active Taliban soldiers. As Qraluq said..."lots of people here are lying." From reports, the German immigration board doesn't even consider letters of recommendation for service as evidence for asylum--there are thousands of these counterfeit things on the market. A vast majority of the illegal migrant Afghani men who walked into Germany last year originally gave their nationality as "Syrian" and have been lying ever since.
4
Yes. And that is exactly why the German authorities no longer recognize Afghanis as worthy of asylum. And their little trick of using false Syrian passports to gain entry has been discovered too.
1
As an immigrant and a former Muslim, it is my observation in these community that there is a strong desire for segregation being wanted by immigrants and Muslims. Almost everything is compared to back home and how 'great' and 'free' their lives were before arriving here. They need an Islamic Culture because the community which they forfeited, they desire the same environment where they could flourish again. They will not integrate culturally. You won't see pubs full of these people but they will be strolling outside with their entire hijabbed family looking for halal meat. The most culture they will assimilate is the local language and they will treat it as an inferior language or better yet never learn it. They will initiate a prayer center which will turn into a tiny mosque and then they will enroll their kids for Islamic studies. When their kids will play with other kids, they all will grow up looking out for each other but culturally they will recognize the divide and both groups would demand for equal rights and diversity. It is my advice to German people of that town to not forfeit their values or downplay their culture just to accommodate these refugees.
46
This is indeed exactly what happened in Brussels. Visit Molenbeek and you'll discover the Middle East recreated in the streets on foreign soil. The worst problem is that the majority of Moslim men cannot enjoy Western-type relationships with their own girls outside marriage. These man have no choice other than strolling in the street in exclusively male gangs without any purpose. Most of them live in a cultural dead end street, unaware of and uninterested in the rich culture ready to be discovered, all for free, outside their own communities.
5
And this is also what is happening, and has already happened in Germany.
Plus, now there's a growing trend of "home-grown" terrorists on the ground.
I have every reason to fear that Germany is next.
Plus, now there's a growing trend of "home-grown" terrorists on the ground.
I have every reason to fear that Germany is next.
Were there no women accepted into this town? All the photos are of men.
15
yes, why is that? this is an inversion of a different kind than economic but just as insidious. where will these men find partners? will German women flock to them, being so "exotic"? oh sure. With limited language skills and mired in their pre_modern religion?
2
Take the scarf off and assimilate. Your husband and children dress Western, why don't you?
34
Stop this NYT.The problems caused by Muslim refugees are evident all around me.The rest of immigrants have problems but aren't as entitled,arrogant and demanding as this lot.
32
I don't understand why Germany is accepting Pakistanis as part of the group asylum-seekers.
16
As an American living in Germany I'd like to praise the author for this excellent piece of journalism. He captures so well the ambivalent mood in Germany at the moment and gives a balanced perspective on the challenges facing both the refugees and the German population.
16
Political asylum is temporary. At the height of the Yugoslav civil war roughly the same number of Yugoslav refugees sought political asylum in Germany. As this article mentions a sizable portion were Muslims from Bosnia and Kosovo. After the war concluded, most returned home. German culture survived. The same will happen here.
2
We keep hearing about the difficulties of integrating Muslim folks, but let's think about it. Of course they have their own culture which differs significantly from that of the west. We tolerate some differences but reject others. And when it comes to civil rights there should be no alternative but to abide by our fundamental human rights values. But the old melting pot notion takes time to brew, maybe a couple of generations, that is if we allow it. Yes Muslims women will continue to wear head scarfs and they will go to the Mosque and they will not eat bratwurst with a nice stein, so what! I can have my ham sandwich with beer and they can eat whatever suits them, but I don't see why we couldn't share the same table. Prost!
3
This is a really good piece of journalism covering every issue and concern. The truth is that humans prefer their own kind, own upbringing, own religion or lack of one, own culture, own food, own country, etc. Other than that, people learn to get along or not depending on the needs of each other, fear, and caring. All of that however, doesn't mean that the melting pot of Muslim culture fits into European society, as well as say the Asian culture has assimilated into American culture. Time will tell.
2
The police ARE covering up the identity of criminals. In Sweden, a chief of police admitted this, and it's been widely written about in the Swedish press. The police has admitted that the mass sexual assaults in Sweden a few months ago also happened in 2014 and 2013, and that they were pressured at work not to disclose that the suspected perpetrators were ALL of Arab or similar descent.
There are criminal stats that this article ignores. In Sweden, Muslims make up 4% of the population but account for 75% of sexual assaults. The discrepancy is simply staggering.
All we see in the media are the big events, like the bombings in Paris and Brussels or the mass sexual assaults of New Year's Eve. You don't see the smaller, daily ways in which the culture in Europe has been changing for two decades. Ask any young woman what it was like to walk around Paris already in the early 1990s. Aggressive harassment from men of North African descent was a daily occurrence. Of course it's not that they all act this way. It is that they are grossly overrepresented in this behavior.
You'd have to be foolish not to be in the 'grey area' many Germans are: wanting to be compassionate but alarmed at the number of newcomers. Of course there are many people who are truly desperate and willing to work and make a better life in Europe. Who knows which ones they are, however. The risk the influx poses isn't worth the pat on the back we can give ourselves for not being like our forefathers in 1933.
There are criminal stats that this article ignores. In Sweden, Muslims make up 4% of the population but account for 75% of sexual assaults. The discrepancy is simply staggering.
All we see in the media are the big events, like the bombings in Paris and Brussels or the mass sexual assaults of New Year's Eve. You don't see the smaller, daily ways in which the culture in Europe has been changing for two decades. Ask any young woman what it was like to walk around Paris already in the early 1990s. Aggressive harassment from men of North African descent was a daily occurrence. Of course it's not that they all act this way. It is that they are grossly overrepresented in this behavior.
You'd have to be foolish not to be in the 'grey area' many Germans are: wanting to be compassionate but alarmed at the number of newcomers. Of course there are many people who are truly desperate and willing to work and make a better life in Europe. Who knows which ones they are, however. The risk the influx poses isn't worth the pat on the back we can give ourselves for not being like our forefathers in 1933.
27
Denial of reality is part of the problem. Only when it is too late, deniers will say that the genie can't be put back in the bottle.
2
Better Germany than the US
9
Of all the western values, egalitarianism is the most misapplied. Until we get a handle on the narrow and particular limits of this idea it will continue to threaten our civilization. It's a bit more complicated than just "you're okay, I'm okay." If nothing else, this developing european disaster might eventually clarify that.
6
Why are twenty Pakistanis moving into the municipality in the article? Pakistan is a long way from Syria. How can they be refugees?
22
Pakistan is a terrible place to live, would be my guess. The religious persecution, constant terrorism, widespread poverty, incidence of disease, and so on, would make me flee for sure.
It seems that Yasser is only a draft dodger. I'm glad he didn't want to fight for Assad, but really, all soldiers have their lives in danger. Does it qualify them for refugee status? Also, it seems migration causes as much unhappiness as it solves. Perhaps other solutions to the refugee crisis than mass relocation to another continent, culture and millenium should be sought more vigorously.
24
Yasser is not only a draft dodger. He is a deserter in war time and would be executed if caught. Assad is a declared adversary of the US. If the US wishes that Assad falls, the country should invite all Yassers of Syria and offer them asylum.
Paraphrasing German Mayor Thomas Kamm: Humanity stands in waiting, at this extraordinary moment in world history. Just as it has always stood when elites, whether land owners, church leaders, royals, nobles, politicians, and others of wealth and influence tried to determine purely arbitrary things like law, borders, or the proper interpretation of the 10 Suggestions.
In every society throughout history elites sought to perpetuate their interests, creating growing bodies of average people who had to live according to their whims. Average people were always caught between forces trying to selfishly define and control reality.
Today millions are seeking to escape war, religious persecution, impoverishment, authoritarianism, etc. And anywhere they land will experience disruption of the "traditional" order of things. In fact, that's how those Traditional Arrangements were created earlier, out of the ashes of previous elite-dominated socio-political-religious arrangements.
Which makes it odd to hear conservative Germans invoking the challenge to their "Judeo-Christian" values. Judeo? Really? OK, we'll ignore Hitler, his elites and their public for the moment. But today we witness yet another challenge to traditional hegemony, which history shows is always temporary. Change is the way of the world and traditionalists will always experience it as loss. Watch out for raised right arms on both sides of the Atlantic, when humanity is indeed waiting and pleading. Waiting for us.
In every society throughout history elites sought to perpetuate their interests, creating growing bodies of average people who had to live according to their whims. Average people were always caught between forces trying to selfishly define and control reality.
Today millions are seeking to escape war, religious persecution, impoverishment, authoritarianism, etc. And anywhere they land will experience disruption of the "traditional" order of things. In fact, that's how those Traditional Arrangements were created earlier, out of the ashes of previous elite-dominated socio-political-religious arrangements.
Which makes it odd to hear conservative Germans invoking the challenge to their "Judeo-Christian" values. Judeo? Really? OK, we'll ignore Hitler, his elites and their public for the moment. But today we witness yet another challenge to traditional hegemony, which history shows is always temporary. Change is the way of the world and traditionalists will always experience it as loss. Watch out for raised right arms on both sides of the Atlantic, when humanity is indeed waiting and pleading. Waiting for us.
2
Well maybe the Judeo part refers to the Son of God, right?
I think it's important to look at some numbers in this year of migration. Europe has a population of 400 million. Syria has a population of 22 million, Afghanistan has 30 million. Not all of the people in Syria and Afghanistan have left those countries, in fact, only a small minority have left. Still, it's stretching the resources of communities in the path of these migrations.
Supporting the people migrating, while planning to lessen and disperse this migration is in the best interest of all of us---Europeans, those migrating, and especially Americans. But the fact that we Americans haven't figured out how to profit by this vast migration of talented people from troubled regions is a puzzle. Someone should make a deal to harness some of this energy.
Supporting the people migrating, while planning to lessen and disperse this migration is in the best interest of all of us---Europeans, those migrating, and especially Americans. But the fact that we Americans haven't figured out how to profit by this vast migration of talented people from troubled regions is a puzzle. Someone should make a deal to harness some of this energy.
2
@lis391
As the descendant of people who died in the Holocaust because they were denied refuge elsewhere, I am understandably troubled by my own contradictory thoughts on this issue. Most of my thinking on the topic is based on the words on the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty: " . . .Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me . . ."
On the other hand, I question how and why it is that only the border free, wealthy, democratic socialist nations of Europe who can offer massive welfare support are the destination of most legitimate refugees from the horrific conflict in Syria, but also of single, able-bodied, male economic migrants from not only Syria, but Afghanistan, Pakistan, and elsewhere in the muslim world.
My most basic ethical principle is "tikkun olam" (repairing the world); my first instincts are always to help. Still, I wonder how it is that for the most part, Syrian refugees, and those fleeing ISIS and other horrors in Afghanistan snd Iraq are flowing to Europe: is it only because the wealthy Gulf States and Saudi Arabia turn a cold shoulder? Tiny Jordan and Lebanon have opened their borders and are flooded. Turkey is next door, so by default Syrians go there; but more are accepted only because Turkey's arm is being twisted by the EU.
Despite what you say. America, a nation of immigrants, understands very well how to profit by the migration of talented people.
This question here seems to be distinguishing between refugees, economic migrants, and others.
As the descendant of people who died in the Holocaust because they were denied refuge elsewhere, I am understandably troubled by my own contradictory thoughts on this issue. Most of my thinking on the topic is based on the words on the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty: " . . .Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me . . ."
On the other hand, I question how and why it is that only the border free, wealthy, democratic socialist nations of Europe who can offer massive welfare support are the destination of most legitimate refugees from the horrific conflict in Syria, but also of single, able-bodied, male economic migrants from not only Syria, but Afghanistan, Pakistan, and elsewhere in the muslim world.
My most basic ethical principle is "tikkun olam" (repairing the world); my first instincts are always to help. Still, I wonder how it is that for the most part, Syrian refugees, and those fleeing ISIS and other horrors in Afghanistan snd Iraq are flowing to Europe: is it only because the wealthy Gulf States and Saudi Arabia turn a cold shoulder? Tiny Jordan and Lebanon have opened their borders and are flooded. Turkey is next door, so by default Syrians go there; but more are accepted only because Turkey's arm is being twisted by the EU.
Despite what you say. America, a nation of immigrants, understands very well how to profit by the migration of talented people.
This question here seems to be distinguishing between refugees, economic migrants, and others.
2
Great article and kudos to that Bavarian Town. Time for us white Christian folks to be Christ like. The world is changing and we need to accept our fellow humans no matter what they look like or what they wear or what God they believe in. This is the western world's challenge and it is a beautiful one.
I am a former catholic, following a yogic path for over forty yrs. I mentioned Christ because his teaching are the same as the yogi's...it is the Catholic Church and other Christian faiths and churches that have distorted his ancient teachings. I am a former Manhattanite and one of the things that I appreciate about having lived there for 62 yrs is that NYC is a melting pot and so I had the opportunity to live and work w people from all over the world. I feel blessed to say that I did not feel obligated to like everyone from every race, culture or religion, but that I had the opportunity to be friends w people from all of the above . When these Germans met these Syrians one on one it was a different experience than reading about them in the paper or hearsay from other sources. I believe that happens because, in truth, we are all the same...human beings.
Good article from NY Times.
I am a former catholic, following a yogic path for over forty yrs. I mentioned Christ because his teaching are the same as the yogi's...it is the Catholic Church and other Christian faiths and churches that have distorted his ancient teachings. I am a former Manhattanite and one of the things that I appreciate about having lived there for 62 yrs is that NYC is a melting pot and so I had the opportunity to live and work w people from all over the world. I feel blessed to say that I did not feel obligated to like everyone from every race, culture or religion, but that I had the opportunity to be friends w people from all of the above . When these Germans met these Syrians one on one it was a different experience than reading about them in the paper or hearsay from other sources. I believe that happens because, in truth, we are all the same...human beings.
Good article from NY Times.
3
Germany had problems integrating "guest workers" from Turkey. I think it is over optimistic to regard these "refugees" as new Eurooeans. They are not that at this time and probably never will become European in culture or outlook. You only have to look at the problems in France and Brussels to see why. In fact, the lead photo on this article with the woman defiantly wrapped in her headscarf should clearly indicate that these arrivals are not going to become Europeans.
24
So, to all those critics with their wise recommandations: what should the Germans have done ? Sink the refugees in the Mediterranean ? Send them back to ISIS and Assad ? Shoot them ?
Ummm. How about turkey? They just left there and were in no danger. Except to not get all those German handouts.
2
Did anyone else laugh when they read that Khalil Qraluq--the Afghan man who's very angry that Germany didn't quickly grant him refugee status--doesn't "get along" with his Eritrean roommate?
The author either didn't probe into the reasons why Qraluq dislikes the Eritrean man or doesn't share that info with us. All we learn is that Qraluq has become “allergic to the sound of the Eritrean language”. I get the impression that the Eritrean guy leaving his dirty socks on the floor or something like that isn't the problem--it sounds more like a cultural thing. Perhaps living in close quarters with someone from a different culture may not be as easy as some people make it sound.
I wish the author had done a bit more exploration of this. As it stands, it's just more proof to me that every nationality has its own comfort zone & prejudices.
The author either didn't probe into the reasons why Qraluq dislikes the Eritrean man or doesn't share that info with us. All we learn is that Qraluq has become “allergic to the sound of the Eritrean language”. I get the impression that the Eritrean guy leaving his dirty socks on the floor or something like that isn't the problem--it sounds more like a cultural thing. Perhaps living in close quarters with someone from a different culture may not be as easy as some people make it sound.
I wish the author had done a bit more exploration of this. As it stands, it's just more proof to me that every nationality has its own comfort zone & prejudices.
18
Fantastic article. Just amazing sense of empathy in the midst of these dark overtones for the future of Germany.
My one note here:
"(Yasser, like many other Syrians I met in Germany, asked that I withhold his last name to protect the safety of relatives back home.)"
Yet you display a picture of him? Wouldn't that be just as easy for people to identify him and his relatives?
My one note here:
"(Yasser, like many other Syrians I met in Germany, asked that I withhold his last name to protect the safety of relatives back home.)"
Yet you display a picture of him? Wouldn't that be just as easy for people to identify him and his relatives?
8
Only time will tell if these people have any interest in living within the Western tradition. Some aspects of their Muslim religion are the antithesis of freedom in Western civilization, which have been secured at the cost of many battles over centuries.
20
Sorry how does German culture benefit from this tidal wave of Islamic immigration?
35
We all know how it benefits the immigrants, but no citizen is ever allowed to ask whether mass immigration will be a net benefit to their country, because the answer is obvious.
6
Did you talk to many actual "Europeans"? I've yet to meet any who approve of Merkel's open immigration policy for Muslim economic migrants. And whatever happened to collective European decision making...it seems to me Merkel is making European immigration policy by herself but the burden will affect everyone in Europe.
27
Up to now, the bill as mostly shoildered by the Germans.
The British prentend, as often , not to be Europeans ans leave the difficult work for the others. But they happily accept Europeans funds.
The British prentend, as often , not to be Europeans ans leave the difficult work for the others. But they happily accept Europeans funds.
I am conflicted when reading articles like this. The author cannot confirm, even by asking authorities, that rapes or other sexual events have occurred even though citizens are stating they happened. I then read other articles where the press, police and municipal authorities have covered up sexual events. There seems to be nothing in between.
15
The rapes, gropings, and attacks that happend at New Year"s night in Cologne and several other cities wree in fact the result of a criminal sub-scene of young men mainly from Morocco and Algeria, some from Tunesia, that often specialise as pick-pockets, if I understand the news well. The police writes about 2,000 to 4,000 for all of Germany. The German administrations did not succeed in deporting these people back to their home countries, and the home countries are not reaaly willing to take them back.
In fact, the authorities in Cologne DID confirm that sexual violence occured. But when the head of police that his force had well mastered the night he was kicked out of office in a public uproar.
Would you say that when the police demandes the population to file charges, it collaborates with two profilers sent by Scotland Yard to vision the hours of video surveillance, the local press & TV reports in detail, the State assembly discusses in public assembly the police intervention, the Polizeipraesident is fired, more than a hundred police officers are charged to find the offenders, and the first are now sentenced - this sounds like a cover up ?
In fact, the authorities in Cologne DID confirm that sexual violence occured. But when the head of police that his force had well mastered the night he was kicked out of office in a public uproar.
Would you say that when the police demandes the population to file charges, it collaborates with two profilers sent by Scotland Yard to vision the hours of video surveillance, the local press & TV reports in detail, the State assembly discusses in public assembly the police intervention, the Polizeipraesident is fired, more than a hundred police officers are charged to find the offenders, and the first are now sentenced - this sounds like a cover up ?
Just today in the online version of the Independent (UK) one story was: "Cologne police ordered to remove word ‘rape’ from reports into New Year’s Eve sexual assaults amid cover-up claims"
3
The very first picture of the article says it all: The woman wears a shawl which means she considers (and her husband as well of course) as first and foremost Muslim which means she has no intention whatsoever to consider herself German or European. She is part of the Ummah.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ummah
This is the reason why Middle-Easterners don't fight for their countries: State-nations as we know them in the West have absolutely no meaning to Muslims who believe they're accountable to their creed only.
Tough luck to the Germans who think these so-called refugees will eventually consider themselves as the descendants of J.S. Bach, Goethe and Schopenhauer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ummah
This is the reason why Middle-Easterners don't fight for their countries: State-nations as we know them in the West have absolutely no meaning to Muslims who believe they're accountable to their creed only.
Tough luck to the Germans who think these so-called refugees will eventually consider themselves as the descendants of J.S. Bach, Goethe and Schopenhauer.
25
A good comment that shows why in France the integration of foreignes doesn't work, and this since years. If you were a head scarf you are the enemy.
There are people who have not overcome their colonialist ideals and attitudes.
Shame !
There are people who have not overcome their colonialist ideals and attitudes.
Shame !
Europe has a border problem not unlike our own. For South Americans, the long, long border with Mexico is far too permeable. For the Caribbean, the water and long coastline of Florida are too hard to patrol. With Europe, it it the Med. The would have to place their navies on alert and allow them to shoot at boats attempting to cross the invisible border in the water. We can't do that with our Coast Guard, how can we expect them to do it? The problem for refugee acceptance is this: they will have it that it is so dangerous for them at home that they must come yet they leave their women, whom are not permitted to work, and their children behind without food, water or medical security and under threat of personal and military violence. How can you respect such men? When provided with opportunities, these refugees initially work hard and then just stop. Then they complain that they are people without a place, a purpose. Germany, with its brats and beer, seems an odd place to put Muslim refugees who don't eat pork or drink alcohol when observant. Khalil's error was in leaving his wife and children behind - he will never get refugee status so long as his choice to leave alone stands for him. If it is safe enough to abandon his family there, it should be safe enough for him to return.
11
Absurdly simplistic comment from someone who clearly didn't read the article and thinks that German culture is defined exclusively by their national cuisine.
you make a blindingly simple point: if it isn't safe iraq then why do some leave e/even earlier?/
You'd think that the generosity of Muslim Saudi Arabia and the Emirates would kick in to help, eh? Dream on.
1
This profile does little to clarify the political situation in Germany. I lived Munich from 2013-2015 and now live in Berlin. I volunteer at a local sports hall that has been converted into emergency housing for refugees. Anyone who thinks someone would risk their life to "leech" off the state is lying. If refugees manage to make it Germany alive, the experience is traumatic and humiliating. Where I volunteer, 200 people live together in a gym with only sheets hung between beds for privacy. There use communal bathrooms. Refugees wait months to be processed and cannot work or go to school. There are no kitchens, only donated prepared food. They can't even cook themselves a meal. They want to work and integrate into society, to live in privacy and dignity. Wouldn't you?
Let's be clear: the SPD and CDU have cut social services for years, even as the economy is growing. This is the real crisis. Life for everyone in Germany is harder when wages and benefits don't keep up with increased costs. The ultra-right scapegoats immigrants, but they are not to blame. Germany has the resources to care for all its residents, refugees or not. And it must.
To all the anti-refugee Americans: shame on you. The United States destroyed Iraq and created the sectarian conditions for ISIS to flourish. The wars in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, and Libya are what people are fleeing. The United States has the moral responsibility to take in the majority of refugees, and does not.
Let's be clear: the SPD and CDU have cut social services for years, even as the economy is growing. This is the real crisis. Life for everyone in Germany is harder when wages and benefits don't keep up with increased costs. The ultra-right scapegoats immigrants, but they are not to blame. Germany has the resources to care for all its residents, refugees or not. And it must.
To all the anti-refugee Americans: shame on you. The United States destroyed Iraq and created the sectarian conditions for ISIS to flourish. The wars in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, and Libya are what people are fleeing. The United States has the moral responsibility to take in the majority of refugees, and does not.
8
K.Brown - the excess of compassion has some very serious downsides, which you ignore.
During WW2, the European country of my ancestors was attacked and destroyed by the Nazis. Bombings, executions, hunger, a total social/economic collapse. And yet, the vast majority of people didn't choose to become "refugees" or "migrants" - they stayed in their homeland and fought anyway they could to push the Nazis out, and to rebuild their country. What would have happened to their country, their heritage, their culture, if all men just bolted to safety somewhere else?
So why are you helping people who should be fighting for better life in their own countries?
During WW2, the European country of my ancestors was attacked and destroyed by the Nazis. Bombings, executions, hunger, a total social/economic collapse. And yet, the vast majority of people didn't choose to become "refugees" or "migrants" - they stayed in their homeland and fought anyway they could to push the Nazis out, and to rebuild their country. What would have happened to their country, their heritage, their culture, if all men just bolted to safety somewhere else?
So why are you helping people who should be fighting for better life in their own countries?
Amazingly, this article fails to mention the impact on German Jews of bringing in highly anti-Semitic people. The irony is hard to miss. "In the past five years, as the number of people displaced worldwide by conflict and persecution has reached a level not seen since the end of World War II, many Germans have expressed pride that their nation — which unleashed the violence that prompted the earlier mass flight — has now become a beacon of safety and opportunity for imperiled and dispossessed people around the world." Not for Jews, they are leaving Germany, they are leaving Europe also in the largest numbers since WW2.
28
"Irony is the handmaiden of history." Europe's historic radical right is now not a threat to Jews. The vitriolic Judeophobia with its rabies-like explosions in France and Sweden come from Islamists who have gained in Europe from the heritage of republicanism and the Liberal tradition whilst simultaneously trying to lessen it for Jews.
1
Interesting. I apparently know a lot more Syrians, Afghanis and Pakistanis than most responders. Warm and well behaved. Many who are fleeing are middle class, educated and reflect a merchant culture. I wonder if this article is a bit slanted. I expect people to be bitter after what they have been through. Bavaria is a fairly closed culture. Note the ones who got asylum went to relatives or friends. And a sax! Someone somewhere needs him in a band.
2
Yasser had a good job in a Syrian city largely unaffected by war, a home, and his beloved motorcycle. He gave it up and left his wife there, and now questions his life in Germany because it's far more expensive than Syria and he's not sure he wants to "let" his wife work outside the home when she joins him, even though they would need two paychecks. He'll have to reconsider whether he will "allow" her to do so.
That a man living in freedom in the west would Fel he has the right to consider his wife's destiny is indicative of all that is inherently wrong with trying to settle these people who otherwise seem to be modernized into the west. We've got enough on our hands with republicans trying to control women's reproductive functions. Why on earth would we want to import a culture that won't even allow women to work outside the home or dress as the locals do? Diversity is important, but not at the expense of women's rights.
That a man living in freedom in the west would Fel he has the right to consider his wife's destiny is indicative of all that is inherently wrong with trying to settle these people who otherwise seem to be modernized into the west. We've got enough on our hands with republicans trying to control women's reproductive functions. Why on earth would we want to import a culture that won't even allow women to work outside the home or dress as the locals do? Diversity is important, but not at the expense of women's rights.
173
Amen. I am glad of my Western rights, and they need to be protected!
9
Does it matter to you that these refugees are seeing something they have never seen before - women treated as equals, making their own decisions? If and when they return to their home countries, will they not take this knowledge with them?
Refugee women in particular will be newly aware that a condition of servitude is not inevitable. Surely it is high time they understood that! The idea that German women will embrace a newly subservient status once they are confronted with examples of such a depressing alternative strikes me as ludicrous.
Refugee women in particular will be newly aware that a condition of servitude is not inevitable. Surely it is high time they understood that! The idea that German women will embrace a newly subservient status once they are confronted with examples of such a depressing alternative strikes me as ludicrous.
1
I agree with you on women's rights and most of the rest of it. However, we still have plenty of Christian religious groups in the US who still control women in the same way. If you are going to throw them out, good for you, but I don't think you will get away with it here. It will take time for some customs of the immigrants to change, but over time they will, probably faster than our ignorant backwoods ones.
1
For crimes against the migrants, we get statistics.
“Last year, Germany had more than a sixfold increase in the number of violent crimes directed at residences for asylum seekers and refugees: 177 offenses, including 94 cases of arson or attempted arson, according to a provisional tally by the Federal Criminal Police Office.”
For crime perpetrated by the migrants, we read the that the ‘belief’ that ‘criminality is being covered up has become increasingly common’ but that it’s ‘dubious’ and the claims are ‘aimed to fuel fear’.
Where are the numbers on crime among the migrants? Are they hard to find? The idea that such crime statistics are being suppressed seems quite plausible. Can your reporters interview police and officials to assess this claim? If the criminality is a myth, if information on law enforcement is freely available, let it be aired out so conspiracy theories won’t fester. That’s an article I’d like to read.
“Last year, Germany had more than a sixfold increase in the number of violent crimes directed at residences for asylum seekers and refugees: 177 offenses, including 94 cases of arson or attempted arson, according to a provisional tally by the Federal Criminal Police Office.”
For crime perpetrated by the migrants, we read the that the ‘belief’ that ‘criminality is being covered up has become increasingly common’ but that it’s ‘dubious’ and the claims are ‘aimed to fuel fear’.
Where are the numbers on crime among the migrants? Are they hard to find? The idea that such crime statistics are being suppressed seems quite plausible. Can your reporters interview police and officials to assess this claim? If the criminality is a myth, if information on law enforcement is freely available, let it be aired out so conspiracy theories won’t fester. That’s an article I’d like to read.
79
Let's start with the fact that there were at least 5 other German cities that saw huge numbers of gang rapes on NYE, that the Times conveniently ignores that fact in this article, and that this paper was among the very last major publication in the world to give in and report on the assaults and rapes at the time. it's a sad day when otherwise respectable journalism is afraid to tell the truth about what is occurring in Europe.
86
Remember the mass assault on women outside train stations? The police sit on it for days until news break and everyone is outraged.
7
The NYE attacks in Cologne WERE suppressed by the police. In fact there were numerous complaints that the police refused to take any action against the attackers. It took almost four days for the mainstream German media to acknowledge that anything happened at all. Going by this incident, it is safe to assume that more crimes occurred.
8
Instead of running away to be a burden on other countries taxpayers, it is beyond me why these men of fighting age are not fighting to make their country a better place. Moreover, it was highly autocratic of Angela Merkel to foist a million people from a completely different culture on her voting constituents without first doing a referendum to see what the tax paying VOTERs of Germany wanted. There are good people in every group, but I agree that the German government is hiding a crime wave they foisted on their citizens without their consent, and I do not think the over 1000 people who filed sexual assault charges in Cologne were lying. Merkel has done a disservice to her country, and as a result the resulting mood will swing too fax in the other direction.
125
Dear Philip,
In my humble opinion, having paid close attention to Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and similar refugee-producing lands for the last couple of decades, it's understandable how people would want to give up on the place completely as hopeless. I myself, all the way over here, have pretty much given up on many such places becoming civilized and peaceful until global warming or other factors decimate their populations.
In my humble opinion, having paid close attention to Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and similar refugee-producing lands for the last couple of decades, it's understandable how people would want to give up on the place completely as hopeless. I myself, all the way over here, have pretty much given up on many such places becoming civilized and peaceful until global warming or other factors decimate their populations.
The whole event was strange. People waited for the refugees at the train stations with piles of gifts for them, many of the women had downright beautific smiles on their faces, as though they felt they were the most wonderful people (such attitudes, I wondered whether they would be putting on little fake halos in a few more moments); it was like a kind of mass hysteria. Of course, in our Facebook days, those pictures travelled far and wide, especially the selfies shot by some refugees of themselves alongside Chancellor Merkel, drawing even more refugees in.
Senior High Schools are finding it harder to offer the courses they used to because teachers are being recruited - not all of them are volunteers - to teach German to refugees. Even retirees were offered prepratory courses and subsequent contracts to teach refugees. Poor Germans are having a hard time finding apartments they can afford. In one case, a proprietor even terminated an elderly woman's contract, stating he neeeded the place for refugees; as written in the article, our health insurance premiums are going up - because of the refugees. But that is being hushed up.
Young girls have been molested at swimming pools, but these and other crimes are being hushed up to avoid "over-reactions." Everyone is holding back their opinions about events, as there are enough bleeding hearts who are all too ready to call them Nazis.
Senior High Schools are finding it harder to offer the courses they used to because teachers are being recruited - not all of them are volunteers - to teach German to refugees. Even retirees were offered prepratory courses and subsequent contracts to teach refugees. Poor Germans are having a hard time finding apartments they can afford. In one case, a proprietor even terminated an elderly woman's contract, stating he neeeded the place for refugees; as written in the article, our health insurance premiums are going up - because of the refugees. But that is being hushed up.
Young girls have been molested at swimming pools, but these and other crimes are being hushed up to avoid "over-reactions." Everyone is holding back their opinions about events, as there are enough bleeding hearts who are all too ready to call them Nazis.
10
Since you have paid close attention to the "refugee-producing lands" of Afghanistan and Iraq you must also be aware that the US military bombed/shelled/IED'ed/droned/munitioned/cluster-bombed their way through large swathes of those countries for most of the last 15 years. Refugees dont grow on trees. They are produced from devastating a country's infrastructure and political structures.
I can only imagine such a large number of refugees arriving all at once must have been overwhelming, when a village was not equipped to handle such a huge influx of people. I am sure there was culture shock experienced on both sides of the equation. Resources get stretched, and tempers flare. It is not an easy adjustment for either the Germans nor the refugees.
While Mr. Angelos points out that stories of rape were exaggerated in some instances, he fails to mention what occurred on New Year's Eve in several cities in Germany where there were sexual assaults on women by assailants who were mostly asylum seekers and illegal immigrants (according to authorities). We have not been nor or we likely to be successful in our attempts to change centuries of learned culture based on theocracy. It is a difficult situation to navigate at best. Not only is Germany having to confront this issue but other counties such as Sweden are struggling with this issue as well. It is not xenophobic to point this out.
While Mr. Angelos points out that stories of rape were exaggerated in some instances, he fails to mention what occurred on New Year's Eve in several cities in Germany where there were sexual assaults on women by assailants who were mostly asylum seekers and illegal immigrants (according to authorities). We have not been nor or we likely to be successful in our attempts to change centuries of learned culture based on theocracy. It is a difficult situation to navigate at best. Not only is Germany having to confront this issue but other counties such as Sweden are struggling with this issue as well. It is not xenophobic to point this out.
91
The article did in fact mention the New Years Even attacks.
If only Germany, France , Belgium and other countries had the guts to deport, out of necessity and of security, the one million or more so-called refugees back to the Middle East. Turkey, Saudi Arabia and others need to deal with them, not Europe or the U.S. and Canada. I'm afraid they have no guts nor the desire to obtain them. The refugees will be with people of like mind over there.
80
Lou, this article was probably written mostly late last year. But, you are right. The only way to even try to get this illegal migrant situation under control is by closing the border and beginning mass deportation of the people who do not have their asylum request granted. Since the beginning of the year, Germany has made a lot of noise about mass deportations of (particularly) Moroccans, Afghans, and Pakistanis, and have tried to negotiate agreements with these countries to agree to take their detrius back. That has been the hold up--Germany is trying to follow international law, while countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan merely ignore it. And both Afghanistan and Pakistan have used the negotiations to try to extort even more money out of Germany--pay for my citizens to return AND give us a bribe. Disgusting. For years, Germany avoided sending back denied asylum seekers, allowing them to stay in Germany, though without welfare handouts. Germany did not want to deal with the stress and possible violence needed to get these people on a plane and out of Germany. So, on top of the approximately 200000 Afghans who arrived last year, claiming they were Syrian and applying for asylum, there were ALREADY 40000 who had been denied asylum but are still here. Asking them to leave doesn't help. They ignore it. So, Germany (and the EU) will have to "grow some guts", put together a serious group of "eviction cops" to cope with these hordes of people. I hope they can do it.
7
Deporting !
Why did the US fight the Second World War ?
Why did the US fight the Second World War ?
So people from the Middle East could move to Europe of course!
2
The people who are immigrating--from South America, from the Middle East--are from populations that don't use birth control. The US could have been the leader in international family planning efforts back in the '80s, when it would have made a difference.
This is Ronald Reagan's legacy, people.
Put another way, This is Ronald Reagan's legacy: people.
This is Ronald Reagan's legacy, people.
Put another way, This is Ronald Reagan's legacy: people.
46
Dear Sarasotaliz,
I firmly believe that the main problem facing the world is overpopulation, but I don't see how Reagan or any American president could have had any effect on the fundamentalist culture in the Middle East and its insistence on having more children than is sustainable. About the only thing we could do would have been to treat the rivers in that area with some contraceptive chemicals, and I can't really see us doing that, vitally necessary as it is.
Unfortunately rather than birth control, the Middle Eastern population is going to have to reach a sustainable level by a considerable increase in the death rate, which climate change and dehydration will provide.
I firmly believe that the main problem facing the world is overpopulation, but I don't see how Reagan or any American president could have had any effect on the fundamentalist culture in the Middle East and its insistence on having more children than is sustainable. About the only thing we could do would have been to treat the rivers in that area with some contraceptive chemicals, and I can't really see us doing that, vitally necessary as it is.
Unfortunately rather than birth control, the Middle Eastern population is going to have to reach a sustainable level by a considerable increase in the death rate, which climate change and dehydration will provide.
32
Interesting statistic from Denmark. In 1951, both Denmark and Syria signed the international convention on refugee rights--the supposed basis for this whole "refugee" swindle the past few years. At that time, both Denmark and Syria had a population of about 4.5 million. Now, 65 years later, Denmark's population has increased by a million people. Syria's population has increased by 21 million. And Syrians are demanding to be accepted as "refugees" in Denmark. And their religion forbids contraception. Criminal. But blame all of this on the EU.
9
The manner in which this article is written ( as in most such articles ) is to paint all the refugees as "good " folks " just seeking a better life. The problem is there belief system "Islam" ( more of a political system than a religion ) which is intolerant, anti democratic and just does not fit into any western norms.
Without a complete rejection of those anti western values they will never fit in.
Without a complete rejection of those anti western values they will never fit in.
159
Christianity certainly did not fit into pre-Christian Europe, and not into the native American context now did it?
Islam is a religion just as Christianity. It does not have any anti-western values implicit to it. It does say that you should adhere to the laws of your host country (a fact that is readily swept under the carpet in these discussions). And that is exactly what people should do. How that looks concretely is a different questions and not easy to answer.
However, saying that Islam is somehow evil or violent is to me similar to saying that Christianity is somehow evil or violent because many Christians many years ago did horrible things.
Islam is a religion just as Christianity. It does not have any anti-western values implicit to it. It does say that you should adhere to the laws of your host country (a fact that is readily swept under the carpet in these discussions). And that is exactly what people should do. How that looks concretely is a different questions and not easy to answer.
However, saying that Islam is somehow evil or violent is to me similar to saying that Christianity is somehow evil or violent because many Christians many years ago did horrible things.
A well thought pout policy could have worked (I fear Merkel has botched it already). Look how everyone loves Canada and all they did was take in 25,000 carefully selected families. If Germany wants to be loved, do the same - allow reasonable numbers, register them back in Turkey, provide safe passage and support in integrating. I don't have quite as negative view of the Syrian as so many seem to. In the long run they will help Germany out with its declining population. I really wish Hungary, where I live, would adopt a reasonable policy like Canada's. Hungary needs the people too and my experience with the four Syrian families whose children attend the school where I teach has been positive. The mix of cultures has allowed us to have excellent discussions about the meaning of tolerance. I'm a woman and my best friend is gay so I completely understand the fears, but if the numbers are reasonable and the process of integration is supported it can work. Really!
23
There would be an outcry, outrage from the refugee rights advocates if Germany were to do what Canada did(does). 25,000 vs. approx. 1,000,000 in Germany. Merkel did blow it big time, all for what? Positive world PR, "Germany is compassionate", etc. etc. Foolish bleeding hearts never deal with reality and usually cause more grief along the way. All Merkel and other boneheaded leaders had to do was to stop, give things a good long and thoughtful look at the problem, find realistic solutions and then act. Nobody did that. Fast forward 3 or 4 months..... now this.. How stupid can our world leaders be? Canada already has problems with their immigrant population from their past and foolish policy of doing what Germany did. they, not too long ago, changed their immigration policies. Germany still refuses.
56
What's wrong with having and raising your own children?
I don't understand this reverse-mortgage immigration policy in Western countries. The natives don't want to have kids and instead want migrants to take care of them when they gets old. In return, when the natives die, the migrants get the country.
The natives get one lifetime of no responsibility and gave up all their ancestors worked for. Kinda like spending all inheritance and leave the next generation with nothing.
I don't understand this reverse-mortgage immigration policy in Western countries. The natives don't want to have kids and instead want migrants to take care of them when they gets old. In return, when the natives die, the migrants get the country.
The natives get one lifetime of no responsibility and gave up all their ancestors worked for. Kinda like spending all inheritance and leave the next generation with nothing.
31
You think Canada is doing a great thing, think again. Canadians are pretty much fed up with Trudeau's policy of bringing in more than 25,000 Syrians. And he is aiming for tens of thousands more.
Our health system is crumbling. The housing market is mostly in crisis. Look at the price of rentals in Toronto, Vancouver, and elsewhere.
The government suggests they live in small cities scattered all over the country. Do you think they will stay there? Of course not. They all want to move where other Muslims live.
These migrants, who will never leave, will be a drain on our economy, as they will unlikely find suitable work, considering their low level of education, low to non existent knowledge of English or French, and requests for accommodations relating to their religion. Then they will complain about discrimination from the people, from employers. If you are an employer, do you want to risk it and hire someone who could possibly disrupt their work environment with requests for time off for the Ramadan, for prayers, etc.?
They will be a burden to all. We pay very high taxes. Income taxes and sale taxes. Canada is always very generous with numerous world countries. We send our money, our soldiers everywhere.
As a woman who has paid taxes for over 40 years, I feel it a disgrace that I have very little access to our healthcare, while the minute they got off the plane from Turkey or Jordan, they were offered their own healthcare card and got to see a doctor right away. ENOUGH.
Our health system is crumbling. The housing market is mostly in crisis. Look at the price of rentals in Toronto, Vancouver, and elsewhere.
The government suggests they live in small cities scattered all over the country. Do you think they will stay there? Of course not. They all want to move where other Muslims live.
These migrants, who will never leave, will be a drain on our economy, as they will unlikely find suitable work, considering their low level of education, low to non existent knowledge of English or French, and requests for accommodations relating to their religion. Then they will complain about discrimination from the people, from employers. If you are an employer, do you want to risk it and hire someone who could possibly disrupt their work environment with requests for time off for the Ramadan, for prayers, etc.?
They will be a burden to all. We pay very high taxes. Income taxes and sale taxes. Canada is always very generous with numerous world countries. We send our money, our soldiers everywhere.
As a woman who has paid taxes for over 40 years, I feel it a disgrace that I have very little access to our healthcare, while the minute they got off the plane from Turkey or Jordan, they were offered their own healthcare card and got to see a doctor right away. ENOUGH.
56
"Back at home, his wife did some work in a private office, but he would not allow her to work for a firm. Women in Syria were not supposed to hold down such jobs, he said."
This is the crux of what is so worrisome - the mindset that a man, by virtue of being male, is in a position to determine what a woman is and is not "allowed" to do.
This is the crux of what is so worrisome - the mindset that a man, by virtue of being male, is in a position to determine what a woman is and is not "allowed" to do.
277
Unfortunately people who point this out are called racists and xenophobes.
44
@Bell- that's because the media falls for that labeling, thinking and acting like Merkel, very little practical and realistic thinking. Unfortunately practical minded people often get intimidated and don't say anything.. Strength in numbers.
32
Isn't the question then not just whether we'd be importing terrorists (Europe has, per Interpol and Frontex), but why Obama and others wish to bring hundreds of thousands of misogynists to America who will refuse to let women exercise their equal rights, refuse to shake hands with women or interact with them professionally, etc?
44
It is difficult to understand why Germans do not bother to look at France and see how difficult it is to integrate muslim migrants, and why. When there is a case so close to home you should study it and not pretend that the French are stupid or racist and that's why they did it wrong. The real reason for the difficulty is that those people do not want to change. They want your money and homes, yes, but they do not want to change identity. They are mulsim before all and will abide to sharia laws not matter where they live. They will do like the imam says. Germans: they will not eat your sausages and will not drink your beer, no matter how hard you try. In addition those migrants come from very backward societies that have failed and all they know is failure. How are you going to involve them in your city / community groups when they haven't seen any experience like that before? How many millions, billions, hours and so on are you prepared to put in that transformation effort? Why? Why not help Greeks instead? France has already invested a huge amount of money and efforts in integration and has failed. What make you so sure you will do better, that you will not experience their rejection, their desire to strictly abide by their archaic laws and not mix with Infidels? I think there is a great illusion in Germany right now!
110
It's a guilt trip, Germany is still feeling guilty about Hitler and how people there supported him with open arms. They want to paint Germany with a holistic, loving type of a portrait. Good world PR is what counts, not common sense.
63
On average every second German can count a refugee in their immediate family. They know what it is like. That is the reason.
Germany and France are chalk and cheese when it comes to migrants. The French migrants from North Africa were from French colonies, meaning they were theoretically French, for all the good it did them. They were marginalised from the start. France has all sorts of class and social barriers in place, such as where you go to school, that stop outsiders from integrating. Even American ex-pats won't be hired for professional positions because they haven't been to the 'right' schools. France offered its migrants no way in to society.
Germany is in a different position. They are deeply self-reflective about how they deal with other people, and they'vre extremely aware of the situation in France and how bad it has become. What they've created is a country-wide, coordinated effort to deal with the influx. Plus, social mobility is easier and there are more jobs and more opportunities for people who want them.
As for migrants not drinking the beer and eating the sausages - erm, I beg to differ. I see plenty of migrants having fun at the various fests that happen with great regularity.
Germany is in a different position. They are deeply self-reflective about how they deal with other people, and they'vre extremely aware of the situation in France and how bad it has become. What they've created is a country-wide, coordinated effort to deal with the influx. Plus, social mobility is easier and there are more jobs and more opportunities for people who want them.
As for migrants not drinking the beer and eating the sausages - erm, I beg to differ. I see plenty of migrants having fun at the various fests that happen with great regularity.
More has to be done by all countries to find accommodations for refugees. The aim of such programs should not be to integrate them into a new country, but to provide a place for them to stay until conditions in their native country have become peaceful. No country is capable of absorbing thousands of foreigners without having its own values compromised. The status of women in Europe is high. In much of the world the status of women is very low. Many of the immigrants do not want their women to work outside the home. This attitude is incompatible with the values of many developed countries. The veiling of women is abhorrent to most of us.
36
No, much doesn't have to be done. The surronding countries= Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Egypt- they are the ones who need to do more, not Europe, U.S. Canada. More silly, fairytale way of thinking.
32
To address your point regarding the status of women, the better solution would be to accept females rather than males like they seem to be doing.
14
Correct lou. We can help the world solve their problems. We are not responsible for taking everybody in who is not living the life they want. Their fellow Muslims should be helping them by giving them room in a culture that that they share values with. They do not share ours.
26
It's seems very sad, all of this uprooting, chaos and expense. I can't stopping believing its a direct consequence of American conservative thinking gone amuck. The vague and minatory American foreign policy has assorted strong deadly blowback. This Great Migration is just another example of it.
5
Dear Finder72,
American conservative thinking is destructive, undoubtedly, but the primary causes of the Syrian chaos are a tyrannical government there, sectarian hatred, and dehydration caused by climate change. Most of the other refugee groups are also fleeing tyranny and sectarian mayhem. So Republicans rank well down the list as a cause, far below Islam's dysfunction and climate change.
American conservative thinking is destructive, undoubtedly, but the primary causes of the Syrian chaos are a tyrannical government there, sectarian hatred, and dehydration caused by climate change. Most of the other refugee groups are also fleeing tyranny and sectarian mayhem. So Republicans rank well down the list as a cause, far below Islam's dysfunction and climate change.
17
@Dan, True but our invasion into Iraq seemed to be the start of the Arab spring and subsequent chaos in the region.
7
Yeah, it couldn't be Iran's conservative thinking, which supports the government that bombed its own people.
2
The Islamic refugees/migrants who claim they are fleeing war and tyranny for security and dignity should reevaluate their religious and cultural attitudes. No one is asking them to abandon their religion or belief system, but they should consider modernizing. They are entering countries that believe in the separation of church and state and in equal rights for women. The continued use by the refugees/migrants of any aspect of Sharia/Islamic Law including the hijab for women clearly indicates that they are carrying their regressive religious beliefs with them, and this makes them implicit in the terror that they are decrying and abandoning.
The refugees/migrants need to understand that Germany, Sweden and other European countries where they so badly want to settle down have reached economic and social prosperity by rejecting religious dogma in secular life. They owe it to their generous host countries to assimilate graciously, and to refrain from any overt or covert introduction of extreme religious practice.
The refugees/migrants need to understand that Germany, Sweden and other European countries where they so badly want to settle down have reached economic and social prosperity by rejecting religious dogma in secular life. They owe it to their generous host countries to assimilate graciously, and to refrain from any overt or covert introduction of extreme religious practice.
86
Yes, and Islam is all about: tolerance, empowering women, and a variety of thought and open democracy. You can surely see this in all the islamic republics.
32
And what exactly is it that will persuade them that they "need to understand" these things? Absolutely nothing that's currently being done. They have zero incentive to change. So they won't.
I'm so tired of reading this cliche about how they "need to understand." People don't change unless the pain of changing - and it will be painful - is outweighed by the pain the accompanies failure to change. The host countries are currently not providing any incentive for change. Indeed, they are subsidizing these people's refusal to do so.
Your argument is naive. The results will be painful - for the wrong people: the ones who already live in the invaded countries.
I'm so tired of reading this cliche about how they "need to understand." People don't change unless the pain of changing - and it will be painful - is outweighed by the pain the accompanies failure to change. The host countries are currently not providing any incentive for change. Indeed, they are subsidizing these people's refusal to do so.
Your argument is naive. The results will be painful - for the wrong people: the ones who already live in the invaded countries.
8
The main issue here is how blithely eurocrats (including Ms. Merkel) have been ignoring the interests of their own peoples. The rationale for these bizarrely lax immigration decisions does not really exist : wooly-headed sentimentality does not good policy make.
54
Air France sent out a memo on March 18 requiring all female employees flying to Muslim countries to wear veil, hijab and form-concealing garment as not to offend Muslim passengers.
This generated a huge backlash against Air France as now an European company requires its employees to follow sharia laws. Air France tries to defuse the situation by saying they are following local laws and the requirements is only in effect after the plane landed. And it now give employees the option of not serving on flight to Muslim countries.
Well, I don't see Muslim men and women in our country follow our dress codes nor our gender equality, reproductive rights, and non-arranged marriage so I don't see why we have to follow theirs. Cultural exchange means exchange, not cultural imperialism.
This generated a huge backlash against Air France as now an European company requires its employees to follow sharia laws. Air France tries to defuse the situation by saying they are following local laws and the requirements is only in effect after the plane landed. And it now give employees the option of not serving on flight to Muslim countries.
Well, I don't see Muslim men and women in our country follow our dress codes nor our gender equality, reproductive rights, and non-arranged marriage so I don't see why we have to follow theirs. Cultural exchange means exchange, not cultural imperialism.
250
There is no reference for the alleged Air France memo. I was in France on March 18, read and speak French, and heard nothing about this alleged memo. A search of the websites of Le Monde and Le Figaro, the two major French dailies finds nothing on this topic. This comment should be removed.
3
SD--it's in today's news:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/06/world/europe/air-france-veil-policy-ir...
Bending over backwards to accommodate obscurantist cultures will only get you so far and more likely leave you flat on your behind.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/06/world/europe/air-france-veil-policy-ir...
Bending over backwards to accommodate obscurantist cultures will only get you so far and more likely leave you flat on your behind.
43
Here you go, Mr. SD: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/06/world/europe/air-france-veil-policy-ir...
6
Since most of the "refugees" are young men.. maybe a good policy is that all able bodied men seeking asylum should immediately be recruited to a UN organized army to be trained to be sent back and to fight for their country – a third brigade of sorts.. Once the conflict has been resolved their families should promptly be returned to their country of origin. The cost is probably comparable to the disaster now – of resettle millions of people .. and obviously the incentive to come to Europe would then be to go home and fight for your country.. It would further clarify who is a real refugee and who is coming to live off of welfare.. All men up to the age of 65 refusing to accept this would immediately be sent back / or not let in as the case may be. I am surprised no one has proposed this.
134
Well said.
19
Been saying this since I began watching these strapping young men cross borders illegally. No one has said it or addressed it because those that are in power are scared of being not PC.
41
Norway calculated a refugee in Europe cost as mush as 20 refugees in a UN run camp in Middle East with equal level of service. The reason is the much higher cost of living in Europe, the much familiar food and culture in Middle East and low overhead. It is one reason Norway, unlike Germany and Sweden, is not looking forward to take in large number of "migrants".
33
Has no one here ever read Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire?
Massive migrations almost always result in the "native" people getting pushed out and replaced by the culture of the new migrants if the migrant culture is different. They do not co-exist.
This seems to have been true even in prehistory. REad some of the NY Times stories on the genetic make-up of Europeans who mostly descend from a people called something that begins with a Y, a migration that occured many thousands of years ago. In historic times, the Germanic migrations to England resulted in the Celtic inhabitants being pushed into Wales and Cornwall.
Millions of migrants a year, whether as refugees or not, looks a lot like so many migrations that have occurred throughout history. Why would we think the results would be any different.
Massive migrations almost always result in the "native" people getting pushed out and replaced by the culture of the new migrants if the migrant culture is different. They do not co-exist.
This seems to have been true even in prehistory. REad some of the NY Times stories on the genetic make-up of Europeans who mostly descend from a people called something that begins with a Y, a migration that occured many thousands of years ago. In historic times, the Germanic migrations to England resulted in the Celtic inhabitants being pushed into Wales and Cornwall.
Millions of migrants a year, whether as refugees or not, looks a lot like so many migrations that have occurred throughout history. Why would we think the results would be any different.
78
Most of Europe's people can be traced back to Germanic DNA. Numerous invasions gave it Germanic region and city names ( Saxony, Normandy )and even countries. France(Frankrijk, Frankreich) and England (Angles)
1
A refreshing, refreshingly honest piece.
One crucial piece of context is missing though: Germany's past experience with Turkish and Arab immigrants. That experience, negative overall, colours all current debates.
One crucial piece of context is missing though: Germany's past experience with Turkish and Arab immigrants. That experience, negative overall, colours all current debates.
39
Wow! I'm shocked by so many xenophobic comments. People don't seem to realize how genetically and culturally mixed up are "Europeans." Refugees have migrated all over Europe and into and out of Europe in the past 1000 years. Europe is really a melting pot at the intersection of Asia (of which it is a part) and Africa.
Germany and many other European countries have low birthrates with aging populations. They need the same kind of immgrant influx that has kept the US economically dynamic. I agree, though, that male migrants should be allowed to bring their families, which will stabilize them economically. This is equally a problem currently in the US, which is preventing stable unification of immigrant families.
Germany and many other European countries have low birthrates with aging populations. They need the same kind of immgrant influx that has kept the US economically dynamic. I agree, though, that male migrants should be allowed to bring their families, which will stabilize them economically. This is equally a problem currently in the US, which is preventing stable unification of immigrant families.
8
WOW! I am shocked at your ignorance of European culture and society. You need to toddle on back a million years to find a common genetic link between Asians, Africans and Europeans - kinda around the time of the Neanderthals
THe Phonecians - early stage of Grecian culture- had developed written language and math - something Africans never managed.
In the last 1000 years there had been NO cultural or population intermix of the mid-east or Africa with Europe. (And not even 2000 years before ...)
1000 years ago was 100 years short of the first crusades - and it has been nothing but warfare between the Muslims and Europe since.
Africans have contributed ZERO to European culture - kind of hard to contribute when they never developed writing, math architecture, political thought or anything else.
Muslims of the Mideast and Africa have ZERO in common with the culture of Europe that developed over the last 20000 years - the time of Augustus and early Roman empire..
THe Phonecians - early stage of Grecian culture- had developed written language and math - something Africans never managed.
In the last 1000 years there had been NO cultural or population intermix of the mid-east or Africa with Europe. (And not even 2000 years before ...)
1000 years ago was 100 years short of the first crusades - and it has been nothing but warfare between the Muslims and Europe since.
Africans have contributed ZERO to European culture - kind of hard to contribute when they never developed writing, math architecture, political thought or anything else.
Muslims of the Mideast and Africa have ZERO in common with the culture of Europe that developed over the last 20000 years - the time of Augustus and early Roman empire..
29
Human beings are all mixed genetically. So what?
That doesn't mean that a nation can't have borders and must accept whoever enters. There is a big difference between inviting someone into my home and returning home to find someone who entered without permission, won't leave and thinks they can dictate to me how I do things in my home.
Whether or not Europe needs an immigrant influx is debatable. China and Japan seem to have made the choice against it. But in any event the number and nature of such immigrants should be up to the Europeans themselves. I would argue the same for any other country or continent. I really don't see this as a xenophobic or right-wing position.
That doesn't mean that a nation can't have borders and must accept whoever enters. There is a big difference between inviting someone into my home and returning home to find someone who entered without permission, won't leave and thinks they can dictate to me how I do things in my home.
Whether or not Europe needs an immigrant influx is debatable. China and Japan seem to have made the choice against it. But in any event the number and nature of such immigrants should be up to the Europeans themselves. I would argue the same for any other country or continent. I really don't see this as a xenophobic or right-wing position.
39
What kind of history have you been reading? Europe is not part of Asia, Europe is part of Eurasia. Europe is not in between Asia and Africa. Middle East/Wastern Asia is in between of Asia, Europe and Africa.
The only refugees that have migrated to Europe are the Gypsies and the Israelites. All the others, Persian, Hun, Berber, Arab, Mongol, Tartar, and Turks came as conquerors.
The only refugees that have migrated to Europe are the Gypsies and the Israelites. All the others, Persian, Hun, Berber, Arab, Mongol, Tartar, and Turks came as conquerors.
29
This doesn't bode well for Germany really. The plight of the refugees is terrible, but they are arriving with no knowledge of the language or customs, no verifiable job skills, and no will to assimilate into the nation that is saving them. They will not prosper, and as their resentment grows from staying impoverished and mutually isolated, terrorism will fester amongst them.
The answer to the problem is difficult, but what I think is needed is a conquest of Syria by the modern, powerful nations, a large coalition including NATO and Russia, and whoever wants to help. Once Syria is conquered, it'd need to be broken up into mini-states by ethnicity, as was done with Yugoslavia, and the refugees can be repatriated. The states could be governed for a generation or two until they're capable of equitably governing themselves.
Leaving the situation as it is will just create a permanent underclass in Europe that has no intention of adopting the mores of its new society, and will almost certainly result in more terrorism, poverty, and dysfunction.
The answer to the problem is difficult, but what I think is needed is a conquest of Syria by the modern, powerful nations, a large coalition including NATO and Russia, and whoever wants to help. Once Syria is conquered, it'd need to be broken up into mini-states by ethnicity, as was done with Yugoslavia, and the refugees can be repatriated. The states could be governed for a generation or two until they're capable of equitably governing themselves.
Leaving the situation as it is will just create a permanent underclass in Europe that has no intention of adopting the mores of its new society, and will almost certainly result in more terrorism, poverty, and dysfunction.
53
These people from the Middle East are not NEW Europeans. They have no real intention of becoming part of Europe. Most of them will spend their life on welfare unless Europe finds a way to return them to their own country. The greater the number the more they demand that their own culture, language and way of life be preserved, even if its values are not European.
The elite, who hold power in the US and EU have told us that Multiculturalism is the way of the future. We were never asked if we wanted to be a multicultural society, it was forced on us by elites who wanted open borders and felt that asking people to show proof of their valid presence in the country was insulting. Even Europe used to required "papers please" but the EU stopped that and see the chaos that has caused.
Confronted with terrorist bombing, non-European lifestyle and religious belief, antipathy towards Christians is it any wonder that the majority of citizens do not want these people in their country. They do not want Open Borders - you see how fast Schengen has become more idea than reality - and expect their country to protect them from these unwanted refugees.
The solution seems to be to oust Elites and install governments led by more populist leaders. While the NYT may not like these new leaders, the people do. The elites have ruined their countries and now the people want their country back.
The elite, who hold power in the US and EU have told us that Multiculturalism is the way of the future. We were never asked if we wanted to be a multicultural society, it was forced on us by elites who wanted open borders and felt that asking people to show proof of their valid presence in the country was insulting. Even Europe used to required "papers please" but the EU stopped that and see the chaos that has caused.
Confronted with terrorist bombing, non-European lifestyle and religious belief, antipathy towards Christians is it any wonder that the majority of citizens do not want these people in their country. They do not want Open Borders - you see how fast Schengen has become more idea than reality - and expect their country to protect them from these unwanted refugees.
The solution seems to be to oust Elites and install governments led by more populist leaders. While the NYT may not like these new leaders, the people do. The elites have ruined their countries and now the people want their country back.
91
There are 88 Sharia courts in Britain. Police have stopped arresting men for beating their wives because "it's is their culture". In areas Muslims have taken over they demand that stores stop selling certain goods or even close down.
It's here too. Cabbies at Kennedy Airport refuse to carry passengers coming in with duty free alcohol boxes. There is one law suit now where a Muslim who worked for COSTCO refused to handle packages of pork and demanded a different job where there was no opening. Four Eritrean women in Minnesota are refusing to wear jump suits around the machinery because they will not wear what is considered men's clothing, trousers. They too are suing for the right to kill themselves wearing loose native clothing while working.
It's here too. Cabbies at Kennedy Airport refuse to carry passengers coming in with duty free alcohol boxes. There is one law suit now where a Muslim who worked for COSTCO refused to handle packages of pork and demanded a different job where there was no opening. Four Eritrean women in Minnesota are refusing to wear jump suits around the machinery because they will not wear what is considered men's clothing, trousers. They too are suing for the right to kill themselves wearing loose native clothing while working.
7
How nice that Yasser is still thinking occasionally of the wife he abandoned suddenly and without hesitation to save his own skin. In that, though, he does seem to have a lot of company with the other Muslim migrants swarming into Europe, over 80% of whom are young males.
136
All who should be trained and sent packing to defend their homeland and watch over their women. Typical male attitude in these ME nations. They are an abomination.
58
Telling them to go back to their homeland to "watch over their women" seems to be an equally misogynist attitude.
This is not meant to be mean spirited, and it does **not **come from a Trump supporter, but if you recall Trump's reading the poem about the kind woman who befriended a snake who finally bit and killed her, there is a resonance of that poem for France, Belgium, UK , Sweden, and now Germany.
1
Given that the Europeans have messed up the Middle East for over three hundred years, and killed way more people than the terrorists ever have any chance of doing, the whining is a little much.
7
History, history, history. The entire Middle East was still Ottoman Turks until 1918 and the Turks genocided tens of million of Christian and minorities. The Turks like to let loose Muslim fanatics as shock troops on Christian civilians both to keep Christians in check and as reward to fanatics.
During the Greek war of independence in 1822, Chios' population was reduced from 120,000 to 2,000 after 40,000 Muslim troops including convicts was sent to massacre the island. All male over 12, all female over 40 and all infants under 3 were beheaded except those willing to convert to Islam. The 52,000 survivors were sent back to Turkey as sex slaves.
During the Greek war of independence in 1822, Chios' population was reduced from 120,000 to 2,000 after 40,000 Muslim troops including convicts was sent to massacre the island. All male over 12, all female over 40 and all infants under 3 were beheaded except those willing to convert to Islam. The 52,000 survivors were sent back to Turkey as sex slaves.
65
@ AmateurHistorian
And a knowledge of history would explain why Hungary (the country of my ancestors), is not eager to allow in Muslim migrants.
And a knowledge of history would explain why Hungary (the country of my ancestors), is not eager to allow in Muslim migrants.
9
The refugee situation is getting out of hand. Example: many refugees are from Pakistan. Why should they be alllowed refugee status? This goes also for Moroccans, Algerians and other people from Africa. The best solution is a 18 months ban on all refugees except people from Syria. That will make the numbers much easier to handle. If not I fear for the future of Europe.
68
I'm afraid Europe is done for...no real intentions of integration on the part of the Muslims.
2
Molotov, as it is, many of the paperless refugees claim to be from Syria, even when they aren't.
4
But people from the Balkans, Pakistan, large swathes of Afghanistan and North Africa are NOT considered refugees and are deported. Some are deported within 24 hours of making an application.
I don't understand the obsession with pushing for immigration at the expense of your own people, especially immigration from a place ruled by an ideology that is very contrary to the liberal democratic philosophy of the west. And I also don't get why no one cares what the local people think about this. Every time anyone has ANY objection at all, they are labeled as racist and xenophobic, even if they have legitimate grievances about how all of this is supposed to be payed for and how people with a very different culture can deal with the realities of living in a western democracy. As a woman there is a huge concern to me in regards to the women's rights issues. Can these men (and they are mostly men) really understand and accept the western value of women's rights and freedom? I just heard a story where there is a controversy in Europe over male students shaking the hands of a female teacher. Obviously there are lots of people who do not want to integrate and become like Europeans. I see no reason that westerners should have to change their culture to accommodate that of another one.
I also think that everyone really needs to stop trying to attack anyone who speaks out against immigration or voices their concerns. This is why the right wing is rising, because other political camps see exposing the negative side of immigration as a taboo.
I also think that everyone really needs to stop trying to attack anyone who speaks out against immigration or voices their concerns. This is why the right wing is rising, because other political camps see exposing the negative side of immigration as a taboo.
228
Lilias Bell, excellent appraisal of today´s migration from muslim countries. I wonder why they don´t travel to Saudi Arabia and other places near them.
33
Enter Trump, stage right.
4
A very good article, illuminating the complexities that Germans and refugees face. Residing part of the year in Germany, I have been deeply impressed by the way most Germans have shouldered a burden to which the rest of the world has largely turned a cold shoulder. The Nazism currently coursing through the old East German states is not reflected in much of the country. There is disquiet, but on several occasions I have been brought to tears hearing of how generous so many Germans have been and continue to be to the refugees from war in their midst.
Such a difference to the hatred, xenophobia, and - yes - ignorance expressed in too many of the comments here.
Such a difference to the hatred, xenophobia, and - yes - ignorance expressed in too many of the comments here.
27
There is absolutely nothing "ignorant" about pointing out that Muslim religious beliefs include beating their wives and viewing women as essentially inferior creatures to be owned, controlled, used and (like Yasser) abandoned when convenient, and the activities of Muslim male swarm-migrants in attacking women who do not wear headbags and are in public without a male owner/handler. You might educate yourself on the violent, demanding behavior of Muslim migrants in such places as Sweden, Denmark, France, Italy, and Greece, as well as the coordinated sexual mob-attacks in Cologne and other German cities.
39
Lead with your heart, not your head. That's how you end up with a million new citizens that are going to cost you billions and may try to kill you.
31
Any 'tears' for the women sexually assaulted by Muslim men in Cologne?
8
"Nicht aus Deutschland" sounds both fearful and menacing to me. Indeed, it must be problematic for many Europeans, especially Germans, who are having to deal with the mass of humanity relocating from places throughout the Middle East and elsewhere to its cities and small towns where tradition and old ways remain steadfast. At a crossroads, only time will tell whether the dark or light side of the German character will prevail. Meanwhile, my heart breaks for the thousands of fellow humans who, for one reason or another, have had to leave their homes and everything they know behind to make the extremely perilous journey to Europe. And my heart also goes out to the Europeans who, for the most part, are decent people who want to help, but who also fear the loss of the familiar. Hopefully, in time, this massive problem will be resolved and that those on the far-right will not hold sway as we remember what happened the last time they did during the 1930's and 1940's.
9
My heart is breaking for the free women of Europe, whose lives are narrowing by the day to satisfy the religious demands and violent sexual appetites of primitive misogynists.
38
@Hypatia- I'm sure your picture of doom for the "free women of Europe" is not justified as they can surely take care of themselves and nobody is forcing them to interact with the "primitive" immigrants. Usually the minority cultures tend to become assimilated over time within a nation. Alternatively once the civil war in Syria ends perhaps many families will return back home.
No kidding. Now we are being told to wear more modest clothing at the local pools, to not enter the waters if there is a large group of foreigners (= migrants), and to be aware of our surroundings at all times...at the local pool. Where I take my kid. Groping in the waters is my new daily reality thanks to Merkel.
2
More needs to be done to bring peace to Syria. Immigration only works when people want to live in a new country and accept a new culture. I work in IT and I see with my immigrant co-workers, the ones who are wholly grateful to be in the US and those who resent having to come here for an education and job and think things are better in their culture/country. For those who cannot accept a new culture, more needs to be done to send them back home, not try to force them to accept a culture they hate. No amount of kindness, benefits or anti-xenophobia rhetoric will change that people have to want to change and adapt to a new country.
45
Refugees and illegal migrants are not the 'New Europeans' and to label them as such is ridiculous and gives a sense that this gross imposition by people who are completely non-European in thought, religious beliefs, extreme migogyny and bigotry towards Christians and Jews is acceptable.
181
It's lefty liberalism. Syrian and other migrants are "the poor brown skinned peoples of the world". They deserve everything you have. So you must give it to them.
The poor Germans -- they have no idea they have signed their own cultural death warrants.
The poor Germans -- they have no idea they have signed their own cultural death warrants.
72
Gee, it's working here isn't it??
6
"Through it all, Germany continues to struggle with the challenge of transforming itself into a republic of shared ideals rather than shared blood." I would add that if these ideals are derived from drastically different world views based on religion - then Germany has an almost impossible task. The Washington Post reported today on a situation in Switerzalnd where two male Muslim high school students requested that they be excused from shaking their female teachers hand - as it was "against their religion". It is great to be culturally sensitive and aware - but the cost should never be gender equality. All we have to do is look at Mississippi to see how discrimination is unleashed in the name of religion. Germany will have to move to more secular positions and be very firm about positions (no excuses) if they want this all to work.
91
It isn't going to work. Islam has to have a reformation, v unlikely as they appear to be going backwards at this point or Europe and the rest of us had better be very selective on who we let come west.
41
In regards to Europe - I don't know if it will work - but I do know that Spiegel magazine in January of this year reported that German political leader Julia Klöckner, "chose not to meet with an imam who refused to shake her hand." "She was making the point that women cannot be expected to accept discrimination out of consideration for cultural differences." Germany will need more people like her to recognize this.
101
It should be noted that the largest Muslim organization in Switzerland was opposed to the request of the two male students.
11
I find it disconcerting Muslim nations are not making it a moral imperative to accept these refugees. How does anyone expect these folks to integrate? The German's and Swedes need to either implement a refugee re-homing policy to a Muslim nation or try and implement intense integration programs where at the very least the children are taught to accept women as equals and valuable members of society. No society should support a culture or a religion that devalues women for the sake of being politically correct.
103
"Muslim nations" like Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan have bared the brunt of the influx of refugees. Both countries, Turkey with estimates of roughly 1.9 million, Lebanon and Jordan each with over a million, and all despite already having taken in millions of Palestinians. I understand that this must be especially difficult for Europe given the constant coverage of the situation with regards to how they, and they exclusively, seem to be baring the burden of taking in refugees, but let's not generalize "Muslim nations" and go on to be so ignorant as to think they aren't accepting refugees.
6
Dear Mcdonalddba,
It's disconcerting but not surprising at all. The Middle Eastern nations all despise any other sect or ethnicity nearby, particularly with Sunnis and Shiites, and to the point of randomly murdering people who are mildly different. Also they're mostly ruled by tyrants with no interest in human rights. So their refusal to do much to help their fellow Muslims is quite standard.
It's disconcerting but not surprising at all. The Middle Eastern nations all despise any other sect or ethnicity nearby, particularly with Sunnis and Shiites, and to the point of randomly murdering people who are mildly different. Also they're mostly ruled by tyrants with no interest in human rights. So their refusal to do much to help their fellow Muslims is quite standard.
27
Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon among them have taken 4-5 million refugees over the past 4 years.
And looking in from the outside, your country currently has a leading contender for President who devalues women with what he says all the time....
And looking in from the outside, your country currently has a leading contender for President who devalues women with what he says all the time....
5
One part of the puzzle that I am missing - and maybe other commentators can help me out is this: Germany took in many, many refugees during the Balkan war. These refugees did not become citizens - in fact I am pretty sure that offer was not on the table. Once the Balkans were deemed safe - they were asked to leave/sent back - with the arrival of the Syrians - that process has picked up speed. It was my understanding that Syrians were also offered asylum - but not necessarily the path to citizenship. Are they going to be treated differently than those from the Balkans? When the time is right - is it/ has it been the German's govt. plan to send the Syrians back?
10
The Syrians and other migrants will never, ever, EVER leave.
Why? German welfare benefits. They dwarf anything in the US. You get a free apartment, free food, free health care, free college and oh yeah -- a stipend of around $2500, plus $400 or so for each child.
Why? German welfare benefits. They dwarf anything in the US. You get a free apartment, free food, free health care, free college and oh yeah -- a stipend of around $2500, plus $400 or so for each child.
52
@ Concerned Citizen
Whatever you reward, you will get more of.
Whatever you reward, you will get more of.
3
You may be wrong. The right to asylum ceases once the conflict is over and it is deemed safe for the refugees to return home.
I don't understand the call in these comments and elsewhere for refugees to adapt.
You might be right objectively, but the Europeans who colonized American certainly didn't adapt, and, in fact, did just the opposite, to the horrific detriment of native cultures.
At least acknowledge that fact before upholding standards for others that this country didn't uphold for itself, at least until the dominant group decided to pull up the ladder on its peers.
The "Be as we are" trope is chilling.
You might be right objectively, but the Europeans who colonized American certainly didn't adapt, and, in fact, did just the opposite, to the horrific detriment of native cultures.
At least acknowledge that fact before upholding standards for others that this country didn't uphold for itself, at least until the dominant group decided to pull up the ladder on its peers.
The "Be as we are" trope is chilling.
13
CMS: however construed, this argument makes no sense and is ridiculous. Are you actually saying that because Europeans invaded the Americas in the late middle ages, other people are free to invade Europe and force Europeans to adopt a new culture, all in the name of fairness or consistency?
I think a better argument based on these historical facts is: beware of mass immigration into your homeland because look what happened to the Native Americans--their culture was overwhelmed and destroyed by foreign invaders.
I think a better argument based on these historical facts is: beware of mass immigration into your homeland because look what happened to the Native Americans--their culture was overwhelmed and destroyed by foreign invaders.
57
Following your logic, Europeans should then regard the Muslim refugees as nothing short of hostile invaders, just as the American indigenous population should have (and did, actually) viewed European arrivals centuries ago. Is that the mindset you're advocating?
28
That's certainly true but the thing is that in Germany, the Germans are actually the indigenous people. They can, for right or wrong, decide how many non-indigenous people they wish to accept, for how long and under what conditions.
20
From what I understand, the number of refugees seeking relocation rivals that of World War ll. As alluded to in the article, this can result in a collision of vastly
different cultures when the immigrants arrive in the host country. As other
readers have pointed out, this can lead to disastrous results. Governments
spend time and money on vetting potential immigrants on national security
and humanitarian issues but what about educating the refugees and the
host population on the obvious cultural differences and the development
of appropriate social skills to deal with them to ensure that successful
assimilation occurs.
different cultures when the immigrants arrive in the host country. As other
readers have pointed out, this can lead to disastrous results. Governments
spend time and money on vetting potential immigrants on national security
and humanitarian issues but what about educating the refugees and the
host population on the obvious cultural differences and the development
of appropriate social skills to deal with them to ensure that successful
assimilation occurs.
9
Over a million people of German ancestry were thrown out of Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Russia after WW2. Many were publicly executed just for being German. Most of these people's families had lived in those countries for generations. All it took was to have a German last name.
They weren't a different culture and many still could speak German and assimilated easily.
Jews who returned to Poland from the extermination camps were murdered because the Poles were afraid the Jews would try to reclaim their homes and property. The British interned tens of thousands in camps on Cyprus because they had nowhere to go. Many emigrated to Israel seeing that as the only place they could be safe.
They weren't a different culture and many still could speak German and assimilated easily.
Jews who returned to Poland from the extermination camps were murdered because the Poles were afraid the Jews would try to reclaim their homes and property. The British interned tens of thousands in camps on Cyprus because they had nowhere to go. Many emigrated to Israel seeing that as the only place they could be safe.
4
I am impressed by the generosity (both wallet and spirit) of the Germans. I do worry, though, about the impact the article will have. Won't thinking about Yasser in his free one bedroom apartment in a beautiful village only increase the stampede? And what happens when his wife's application is approved? That one bedroom apartment won't be big enough for long. And forget about her working when she starts popping out babies. At least Muslims and Catholics are united in their stance re birth control.
31
Lucky for him, it's all too common that a Muslim (= Turk) here in Germany with 6 kids and no job, gets a house and more to cover the costs of procreating, keeping his wife at home, and not paying any taxes.
3
Mdieri: Last sentence: are we supposed to take consolation in Catholic and Muslim opposition to birth control? As a matter of fact, some Catholic countries are not sustaining their populations precisely because middle class Catholics have taken charge of their own reproductive rights. But this can't be said for Muslims in Europe. Demography is destiny, as Europe will find out.
A learned professor colleague if mine states that "Europe is gone "
A learned professor colleague if mine states that "Europe is gone "
1
It took me a while to get through this article.
Trying to keep my analytical mind engaged on this, trying to understand.
But I simply can’t.
‘He could not fathom fighting for any side in the conflict.’ ‘I cannot hit a cat’ ‘His wife remained in Latakia’. Maybe it’s me, but I have fought for what I believe, I would never abandon my woman or my family, I would rather die defending them, especially in a war zone. What kind of coward runs away and leaves his family in danger? Then this: “If some right-wing extremist comes here, I’ll be standing in front”, yea, then why did you run away from home when that happened? I can’t blame that politician for suing his government for having failed to protect the country.
There were rules, but Hungary was bedeviled when they attempted to enforce them. Austria was a main critic of that action, but since then, they have built a wall at their border too.
Germany bough this mess, now it is up to Germany to resolve this mess. Germans can, and should come up with a solution, nothing we can say from far away will really have any impact. But Germans are resilient, smart, and resourceful. I just hope than in 5 years, they still rule their country, but I am beginning to have doubts.
Trying to keep my analytical mind engaged on this, trying to understand.
But I simply can’t.
‘He could not fathom fighting for any side in the conflict.’ ‘I cannot hit a cat’ ‘His wife remained in Latakia’. Maybe it’s me, but I have fought for what I believe, I would never abandon my woman or my family, I would rather die defending them, especially in a war zone. What kind of coward runs away and leaves his family in danger? Then this: “If some right-wing extremist comes here, I’ll be standing in front”, yea, then why did you run away from home when that happened? I can’t blame that politician for suing his government for having failed to protect the country.
There were rules, but Hungary was bedeviled when they attempted to enforce them. Austria was a main critic of that action, but since then, they have built a wall at their border too.
Germany bough this mess, now it is up to Germany to resolve this mess. Germans can, and should come up with a solution, nothing we can say from far away will really have any impact. But Germans are resilient, smart, and resourceful. I just hope than in 5 years, they still rule their country, but I am beginning to have doubts.
121
All the evidence is that the majority of these migrants are cowards, who won't fight to save their own nation -- and whose only thought is "how I can get to Germany and/or Sweden, and get on those lavish welfare benefits"!
Many of them will bring their 2-3 wives and 6 children, eventually, but some will just abandon them for the good life in Western Europe.
Many of them will bring their 2-3 wives and 6 children, eventually, but some will just abandon them for the good life in Western Europe.
23
Yes, because the standard of admitting refugees should be predicated on the basis of your notions of courage and cowardice. In all the history of people fleeing from war torn regions and strife, let's not admit any because you would (supposedly) have stayed and fought. I'd like to take these standards of yours and apply them to refugees during World War II, or for any other period for that matter, in hopes that the sheer ignorance of your comment and others like it can be seen in their true light. People suffer. People flee their countries. Refugees are nothing new. The same backward comments like yours, along with a hundred others more imaginative, have been used to cover bigotry and prejudice.
And which 'side' would you suggest he fight for to bring peace to his country? If it was so simple, it would probably be over by now. My understanding is that the majority of Syrians, especially many trying to leave, are quite secular and well educated - so not likely to have multiple wives.
1
Where is the guarantee that Europe is not being used as an incubator for ISIS terrorists? Where are the Muslim nations who have closed their doors to any immigrants whom they refuse to feed and house and educate? The EU is falling apart - and perhaps just in time to prevent the use of Europe to support terrorists whose only goal in life is to put on suicide belts and kill the taxpayers who paid for their housing, food, education and healthcare. Be assured that we in the US have not at all forgotten 9/11, nor that it took a Democrat in the White House to "get" Bin Laden. We know who our friends are at home and abroad - and who our enemies are, both at home and abroad.
30
"Where is the guarantee that Europe is not being used as an incubator for ISIS terrorists?". Guarantee? Have you not seen the article in the German news magazine, Spiegel.com (English version)? "Activating the Sleepers: Islamic State Adopts a New Strategy in Europe".
This piece was illuminating yet feels like an installment, missing crucial interviews with refugee families, refugee women and children as well as how Germany is truly working toward cultural integration.
What programs are in place for refugee women and men to understand the vast differences between their country of origin and where they live now?
Everything I've read points to this being largely economic migration and that most if not all refugees will leave Europe and return to their native lands. If that is the case then this is a terrible waste of time and resources while shifting several countries natural citizens from an otherwise natural and open regard for those in need. It's these citizens who are paying too high a price not just now but well into the future.
It is very sad in particular that Germany's history effectively muzzles the ability for its citizens to speak their concerns openly and demand reasonable solutions to real problems.
What programs are in place for refugee women and men to understand the vast differences between their country of origin and where they live now?
Everything I've read points to this being largely economic migration and that most if not all refugees will leave Europe and return to their native lands. If that is the case then this is a terrible waste of time and resources while shifting several countries natural citizens from an otherwise natural and open regard for those in need. It's these citizens who are paying too high a price not just now but well into the future.
It is very sad in particular that Germany's history effectively muzzles the ability for its citizens to speak their concerns openly and demand reasonable solutions to real problems.
33
"Everything I've read points to this being largely economic migration and that most if not all refugees will leave Europe and return to their native lands." This is a ludicrous statement. You expect people to voluntarily give up the good life in a high welfare country like Germany to return to the Middle East?
34
There are no easy ways to be accepted. It doesn't matter if in Bavaria or Germany or even in St. Hedwig,Texas. My maternal family is from Bavaria, raised there for a few years. My paternal family is French & primarily Polish. Can you imagine a grandmother ,Polish, whose husband was injured by Germans in a gas attack in WW I ,welcoming her sons wife & children ,who were German speakers into her home? Fear,limited experiences with other cultures, competition for resources ,can bring out the worst in people. My Polish American grandmother never knew my Bavarian grandfather had risked his life to return "gast-arbeiters" home to their families under the Nazi regime. But there is a clear path for the fearful in Germany ,Europe & the U.S. The path is for Syrians to stay in Syria,in safety. If you are anti-immigrant, your countries foreign policy should be for a safe homeland. An aside,Chancellor Merkel has proven the worth of the asylum seekers,they have the ability to contribute to the success of Germany. Whether in Chicago, New York or even St. Hedwig, America wouldn't be as great as it is. There needs to be a statement of welcome,expectation of both the host & guests,the sharing of goals,not fear of differences. Ein Schoennen Gruess an Alle!
2
“The scale of the influx last year — roughly one million asylum seekers in all, nearly half of whom made formal applications — was exceeded in German history only by the influx of “ethnic Germans” who were expelled from Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union after World War II.” This is the first time the expulsion of 14 million ethnic Germans has been mentioned in my 65 years. You cannot compare the expulsion to the recent crisis. The victims of the expulsion would have died if it were not for the Marshall Plan. I consider the expulsion a holocaust on the ethnic Germans. These people would not have left their homelands they were forced out at gunpoint. The migrants are leaving on their own for different reasons. While I do have sympathy for their plight it is in no way the same. “The country now faces the greatest test yet of its willingness to transform itself into a multiethnic nation.” Germany did not want the ethnic Germans from the expulsion they were forced on them. I don’t see how they are going to accept a multiethnic nation. I speak from experience.
16
They and their children , will go to local mosque. Learn about infidel, kafirs and all the verses in koran that advocate violence against non-muslims. A few of them will act on it and shout Allaho-Akbar and blow up, killing innocent people. Has been happening since 7th centiry AD.
When in minority they will demand strict secularism and benefits for minorities.
When in majority they will annhilate minorities.
When in minority they will demand strict secularism and benefits for minorities.
When in majority they will annhilate minorities.
249
I don't think it's possible to make this comment any more general or less nuanced.
3
Dear John of Snow,
Sure there is, the most generalized, nuance-free version would read simply: "Islam bad".
Sure there is, the most generalized, nuance-free version would read simply: "Islam bad".
6
Rajiv by virtue of his country India's history has a much closer relationship with Islam unlike Dan and John in USA. His assertions are not unfounded. India had been invaded and occupied for more than a thousand years by Muslim conquerors waving the banner of Islam on many occasions and imposing special tax on non Muslims called "Jizya". Pre-partition Pakistan in 1947 had 24 % Hindu population. Now it stands at measly 1.6%. In India pre-partition Muslim population was ~ 25%. Now it stands at ~15% and slated to grow bigger than the Hindu population. Tolerance is a two way street .. not a one way street. And it all stems from an idea ... an ideology that was born out of war and succession and violence in the crucible of the 6th century Saudi Arabia .... That is also one of the realities which should be accepted or you risk being naive ...
it is a tsunami... the unrest was the earthquake that created it... natural forces... cannot be avoided or stopped.
3
While this is a German internal issue, an issue we in North America will have numerous opinions about, especially because we have not been directly affected. Our own situation of illegals immigrants from south of us, is more than we seem to be able to deal with. With that said, I am 3rd generation American. Half my ancestry is German. I was raised with an overwhelming number of 1st generation American born, and original German immigrants. Have visited Germany on business many times. My last comment is , what constitutes the current German culture? Seems they still manage from a persecution complex, having done what they did as a race, during WW2. AS an example as a well travelled America in our own country we still have major pockets of black racism. An issue we rationalize. Now we are teaching our young to fear Muslims.We have many who have zero tolerance for gays. Point is some cultures are what they are. Look at Putin, popular as he is restoring Russian dignity, not remaking a culture in some new image.
1
Salafism is more to blame for the trouble in the Islamic world than Bush's misadventures. Islamic extremism will send millions of refugees fleeing the Middle East and Africa. Europe can't absorb them all.
Saudi Arabia deserves more of the blame for spreading religious extremism throughout the world by sending ultraconservative iman's everywhere.
Afghanistan has been a disaster for decades.
Saudi Arabia deserves more of the blame for spreading religious extremism throughout the world by sending ultraconservative iman's everywhere.
Afghanistan has been a disaster for decades.
53
"Salafism is more to blame for the trouble in the Islamic world than Bush's misadventures. "
"Afghanistan has been a disaster for decades."
America was in Afghanistan in 1980s.
Blaming salafism and Saudi Arabia is next ploy.
"Afghanistan has been a disaster for decades."
America was in Afghanistan in 1980s.
Blaming salafism and Saudi Arabia is next ploy.
1
Saudi Arabia has offered to build 400 Mosques and Madrassa (schools) and supply Imams. That ought to be a big help in this process of assimilation of German culture.
1
It boggles the mind that a western European country would permit an unregulated influx of foreign nationals into their system.
I am a progressive who believes in government as a force of good. But the heights of society achieved in Europe and North America - the structure, peace, services, safety, freedom of expression - those things are precious accomplishments and can be ripped away, if not guarded.
There is a reason that existing migration systems require huge personal commitment - either in raw cash, or a combination of labor, time, and evidence of cultural assimilation.
I am a progressive who believes in government as a force of good. But the heights of society achieved in Europe and North America - the structure, peace, services, safety, freedom of expression - those things are precious accomplishments and can be ripped away, if not guarded.
There is a reason that existing migration systems require huge personal commitment - either in raw cash, or a combination of labor, time, and evidence of cultural assimilation.
148
" western European country would permit an unregulated influx of foreign nationals into their system."
" I am a progressive who believes in government as a force of good. But the heights of society achieved in Europe and North America - the structure, peace, services, safety, freedom of expression - those things are precious accomplishments and can be ripped away, if not guarded."
A liberal found. Europe for him is " peace, services, safety, freedom of expression".
" I am a progressive who believes in government as a force of good. But the heights of society achieved in Europe and North America - the structure, peace, services, safety, freedom of expression - those things are precious accomplishments and can be ripped away, if not guarded."
A liberal found. Europe for him is " peace, services, safety, freedom of expression".
2
Ya, es ist. Ich liebe Deuschland und Amerika. Hopefully Germany will work this all out and we in this country will work out our problems in a positive, LIBERAL way and as a result, the rest of the world will evolve into better countries and there will still be humans living in the middle of the 22nd century.
Commentaries here are very interesting in the sense that you can tell where all the conservatives in the US live: UT, TX, ID.
6
You can also tell where there has not been a massive influx of immigrants that overwhelmed schools and social services.
26
Texas has had a lot of immigrants in the schools and hospitals. It's very expensive.
22
Uh, that is not even remotely true. You also leave out almost the entire South, certainly the Southeast.
4
Why aren't the refugees being resettled in the Middle East? Kuwait? Qatar? UAE? Saudi Arabia? Bahrain? What are the Arab people doing to help people from their own region?
Resettling the refugees in Germany makes no sense to me. Different culture, different language, different religion, different diet. The assimilation process will be difficult. When you think of German food, what do you think of? .... Wurst! Imagine a local barbecue. It will be difficult for the refugees. They will be obsessing about pork on the grill and the Germans will be perplexed.
I am the child of immigrants. I know all about the opportunities in a new land. However, America is different from Germany. This county has a 200+ year history of assimilating immigrants. Germany is German. It's almost so obvious that I'm surprised I have to write it, but I what I mean is that Germany has a culture, a history, a language, a people that have existed there for thousands of years. These types of places are not well suited for mass immigration, no matter how much their leaders would like to change the situation. Merkel made a huge mistake. Europe has made a huge mistake. Merkel and the US should have pushed aggressively for resettlement in the Middle East. With local resettlement, there is a greater chance that Syrians would return to their homeland once peace is established. That would be a more pragmatic solution. I'm afraid the current situation will have problems.
Resettling the refugees in Germany makes no sense to me. Different culture, different language, different religion, different diet. The assimilation process will be difficult. When you think of German food, what do you think of? .... Wurst! Imagine a local barbecue. It will be difficult for the refugees. They will be obsessing about pork on the grill and the Germans will be perplexed.
I am the child of immigrants. I know all about the opportunities in a new land. However, America is different from Germany. This county has a 200+ year history of assimilating immigrants. Germany is German. It's almost so obvious that I'm surprised I have to write it, but I what I mean is that Germany has a culture, a history, a language, a people that have existed there for thousands of years. These types of places are not well suited for mass immigration, no matter how much their leaders would like to change the situation. Merkel made a huge mistake. Europe has made a huge mistake. Merkel and the US should have pushed aggressively for resettlement in the Middle East. With local resettlement, there is a greater chance that Syrians would return to their homeland once peace is established. That would be a more pragmatic solution. I'm afraid the current situation will have problems.
216
That's not entirely accurate. Germany as we know it today is a relatively modern invention - made up of a smattering of different smaller states until the 1800s. And waves of immigration, while in the past under different circumstances and consisting of different numbers, are not a new phenomenon for the country.
4
And the United States "as we know it today" is 57 years old.
1
For heavens sake! All the Republican governors have announced that no migrants fleeing violence and civil war in the Middle East are welcome. And the US has agreed to 5000, or some small number like that.
Which country invaded Iraq and precipitated disorder and civil war in the greater Middle East?
Which country invaded Iraq and precipitated disorder and civil war in the greater Middle East?
2
Even swathed in pink from head to toe, I still find the head scarf offensive.
Accepting millions of ME immigrants is dangerous to ALL women, the LGBT community and people of Jewish ancestry.
Did not Germany or Merkel consider any of these things before flinging open their doors and welcoming all Muslims with open arms? Nice, but....
I question the motives of this unabated immigration going on, including in the US. Why don't citizens get a say on ANY of it? And when we question or disagree with amnesty or accepting endless immigration, we are all painted as xenophobic or reactionary racists.
Ban the burka and headscarves. These have got to go. Evolve or leave please.
Accepting millions of ME immigrants is dangerous to ALL women, the LGBT community and people of Jewish ancestry.
Did not Germany or Merkel consider any of these things before flinging open their doors and welcoming all Muslims with open arms? Nice, but....
I question the motives of this unabated immigration going on, including in the US. Why don't citizens get a say on ANY of it? And when we question or disagree with amnesty or accepting endless immigration, we are all painted as xenophobic or reactionary racists.
Ban the burka and headscarves. These have got to go. Evolve or leave please.
221
"I still find the head scarf offensive."
You invade their countries but you find their head scarf offensive. Touche.
You invade their countries but you find their head scarf offensive. Touche.
Ironic that the women calling for the burka and headscarf to be banned because it offends them would be absolutely outraged if the women wearing them called for the bikini and miniskirt to be banned because it offends them.
No one should be forced to wear a burka or headscarf, but if a woman truly wants to wear one she should be free to. Telling a woman she can't wear a headscarf if she wants to wear one is just as offensive and condescending as telling her she must wear one when she doesn't want to. True feminists support a woman's right to live as she pleases, even if it isn't the choice they would personally make.
As a Mormon woman who dresses modestly (shorts and skirts down to the knees, sleeves on shirts and no midriff or cleavage showing) I cringe every time I hear the narrow-minded and ignorant view that any woman choosing to forgo bikinis and miniskirts is brainwashed and oppressed. I'm 27 and single, living in a different town than my family. No one is sitting there telling me what to wear every day. And yet I choose to dress the way I do because it makes me happy to feel like I'm respecting the body God gave me. To me, keeping control over who sees what feels much more empowering than letting every Tom, Dick and Harry get an eyeful as I pass by. I imagine some Muslim women feel similarly, so quit the judgment and the white-savior complex.
No one should be forced to wear a burka or headscarf, but if a woman truly wants to wear one she should be free to. Telling a woman she can't wear a headscarf if she wants to wear one is just as offensive and condescending as telling her she must wear one when she doesn't want to. True feminists support a woman's right to live as she pleases, even if it isn't the choice they would personally make.
As a Mormon woman who dresses modestly (shorts and skirts down to the knees, sleeves on shirts and no midriff or cleavage showing) I cringe every time I hear the narrow-minded and ignorant view that any woman choosing to forgo bikinis and miniskirts is brainwashed and oppressed. I'm 27 and single, living in a different town than my family. No one is sitting there telling me what to wear every day. And yet I choose to dress the way I do because it makes me happy to feel like I'm respecting the body God gave me. To me, keeping control over who sees what feels much more empowering than letting every Tom, Dick and Harry get an eyeful as I pass by. I imagine some Muslim women feel similarly, so quit the judgment and the white-savior complex.
4
there is no european invasion of syria or libyia thats all home grown civil war supported by qatar saudi arabian arms shipments.
the iraqi and afghan conflicts have long since ended.
the iraqi and afghan conflicts have long since ended.
9
A good immigrant adapts to the culture, not the other way around. No one is forcing Muslims to eat bratwurst and drink beer. They don't have to adopt those aspects of German culture. But an understanding of, and a respect for, the host culture is absolutely mandatory. Yes, Germans dress the way they like. They will eat foods and drink drinks that are haram. There is equality between men and women, and unwanted sexual advances are not allowed. Other religions are to be respected. THIS is what tolerance means, not adapting the host culture to the wants of the immigrant.
Whether or not they should be there at all can be debated. But those that ARE there have to understand that there is no desire to recreate their cultures of origin in a Western society. If they want that life, they can go back to it at any time.
Whether or not they should be there at all can be debated. But those that ARE there have to understand that there is no desire to recreate their cultures of origin in a Western society. If they want that life, they can go back to it at any time.
292
The right to practice a religion is 'to be respected', not the religion itself.
Huge difference.
Huge difference.
18
High cases of rape and White supremacist are also Germany culture. Please expand your view about Germany culture.
1
I agree completely with this & other related comments...like many Americans, my grandparents came here from other countries and went through the challenging process of assimilating to a very foreign culture with virtually no support. They were grateful to be here and appreciated the opportunities for themselves and their children. But there certainly was no expectation that their new country should adapt to their cultures, rather than vice versa. The result: children and grandchildren who appreciate the traditions of their ancestors but are first and foremost Americans.
2
I am an American expatriate living in Europe. Germany's open door policy toward migrants is a complete absurdity. Does the NYT think it is acceptable for masses of people who can no longer tolerate the political dysfunction in their own countries to gather into hordes and push their way into Europe? Rather than reflecting on their own failed societies and working to solve their problems, they expect Europe to welcome them with open arms. Why should Germany - a well-functioning country with transparent political institutions and businesses - bear the burden of the political failures of the Middle East? These people and these countries need to REFLECT and REFORM. We cannot allow the borders between countries to be so porous. We cannot allow masses of people who do not know what it means to live in a well-functioning society threaten the cultural integrity of Western European countries.
362
Right on-I like the way you think. Thank you.
17
"Rather than reflecting on their own failed societies and working to solve their problems, they expect Europe to welcome them with open arms"
Even in Europe, Americans refused to read.
They are in Europe because Americans and Europeans are invading their countries.
Even in Europe, Americans refused to read.
They are in Europe because Americans and Europeans are invading their countries.
1
"do not know what it means to live in a well-functioning society." The privileged look down on the poor as beasts and content themselves with being enlightened when in reality they are the worst kind of beast.
3
1. There are genuine refugees, many from Syria, which are fleeing a War, and these are mostly accepted and can be integrated. There are also economic migrants from Africa and the Middle East, which have no right to stay, and must be send back to their homelands. These are also the ones that are stealing and harassing woman, as the Cologne attacks have shown. Most of them came from Algeria and Morocco, countries that are save and not involved in any armed conflict. Everything else goes against German and international law. And at some point Germany will have to put a limit on the numbers, one million is already too much in my opinion. If other countries would have tried to help more the situation would be differend, but there has been no real European or international response. In fact the countries that caused the most trouble in the Middle East are taking the fewest refugees. All those proud supporters of the War in Iraq and the intervention in Lybia, from which Germany abstained, look guilty and should be ashamed.
28
‘If other countries would have tried to help more the situation would be different’, they did not tell the masses ‘y’all come in you hear? So why should they take care of a promise made by Germany?
‘All those proud supporters of the War in Iraq and the intervention in Lybia, from which Germany abstained, look guilty and should be ashamed.’ – locally there is a politician who voted for the Iraq war, and then convinced the president to hit Libya, elect her, and we will have the million refugees over here in no time.
‘All those proud supporters of the War in Iraq and the intervention in Lybia, from which Germany abstained, look guilty and should be ashamed.’ – locally there is a politician who voted for the Iraq war, and then convinced the president to hit Libya, elect her, and we will have the million refugees over here in no time.
6
Europe is finally paying the prize for not having done much of anything in fighting the militants in Afghanistan, Syria, and Iraq. Although they were part of NATO/ISAF it was primarily the Americans doing the heavy work. To put it in simple language, Europe is paying the prize for chickening out these past 15 years.
12
It was American intervention in the Middle East that caused the problem; intervention that was supported by the NATO states. If we hadn't practiced a policy of regime change, this mass exodus would not have happened. That being said, we have to contain the migrants, who are mostly economically driven, to their native states. We cannot expect Western Europe to eventually lose its identity to people whose religion is hostile to the European way of life.
4
Lemme see if I've got this straight. The west is guilty for all the ills in the Middle East because it has been involved there. The west is guilty for all the ills in the Middle East because it hasn't been involve there. Is it possible, just possible, that the citizens of the Middle East could be at least a little responsible for the mess over there? That a religion that says there is only one way to think, act, worship, look or you die, treats women like brood mares and tolerates no other democratic values could have something to do with it?
46
Everyone blames the west for their problems. However, the west did not invent their highly misogynistic and oppressive culture and religion. That existed long before America ever did.
42
I broadly believe it's a moral imperative for countries to accept refugees to the best of their ability, and am optimistic about the future of a Germany, France, Sweden, or US that accepts these people with open arms. I believe many of the fears are overblown. I also find articles in which reporters engage directly with refugees and residents fascinating, even if they're anecdotal
But all that being said, I do strongly wish reporters would take the opportunity to ask refugees about their views on women and women's role in society. This is a key point, and nothing troubles me more than that middle-eastern men holding backward views on gender equality will not be aggressively pushed to recognize the incompatibility of those views with successfully residing in the Western countries that have welcomed them.
But all that being said, I do strongly wish reporters would take the opportunity to ask refugees about their views on women and women's role in society. This is a key point, and nothing troubles me more than that middle-eastern men holding backward views on gender equality will not be aggressively pushed to recognize the incompatibility of those views with successfully residing in the Western countries that have welcomed them.
76
Do we really need 'to ask refugees about their views on women and women's role in society', when the religion is Islam?
Perhaps seeing a man in a tee shirt and shorts smoking a cigarette while his wife walks behind him covered head to toe on a hot summer day is a clue?
Perhaps seeing a man in a tee shirt and shorts smoking a cigarette while his wife walks behind him covered head to toe on a hot summer day is a clue?
46
I'm glad you're such an optimist! Why don't you come over here, where we now have to avoid major train stations, be constantly aware of the daily terrorist alert ratings (continuously high), be told to not enter Christmas markets (bc the Muslims detest it and may blow us up for celebrating a holiday in our own country), and where I need to read about sexual misconduct and terrorists and worry about whether I can take public transport anymore?
3
This story is missing something - why Arabs and Muslims left their homelands? Their homelands long desired by the European and American invaders are now in rubbles and they had to leave in dinghy boats to the very land where the invaders live.
The European invaders are calling the coming of Arabs and Muslims to their continent as a form of invasions. The European invaders long known for invading and plundering other nations found themselves at the receiving ends.
Did you really think that when you invade Arab and Muslim countries, you are just invading empty lands with no humans?
The European invaders are calling the coming of Arabs and Muslims to their continent as a form of invasions. The European invaders long known for invading and plundering other nations found themselves at the receiving ends.
Did you really think that when you invade Arab and Muslim countries, you are just invading empty lands with no humans?
7
I guess you never heard of the Moors or why is so much of Indonesia Muslim?
The Muslims have been invading the rest of the world good and plenty on their own.
The Muslims have been invading the rest of the world good and plenty on their own.
41
You need to go back and read some more history. It is often the case that the invading and plundering armies are Muslim. Missed that part, huh?
31
"why Arabs and Muslims left their homelands?"
Because of other Muslims, who have been butchering one another because of their religion (Islam). What have the Germans and Swedes done to deserve this invasion? Why do the migrants not go to Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Indonesia?
What these mass migrations tell us is that asylum laws and the Geneva conventions need to be rewritten. The West is simply not capable of absorbing the hundreds of millions of unskilled Third World folks clamoring to immigrate (no matter how deserving). Especially from incompatible cultures - talk to second generation Muslim immigrants in France, the Netherlands and you will be amazed by the hatred they are showing towards their (ostensive) motherland.
Because of other Muslims, who have been butchering one another because of their religion (Islam). What have the Germans and Swedes done to deserve this invasion? Why do the migrants not go to Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Indonesia?
What these mass migrations tell us is that asylum laws and the Geneva conventions need to be rewritten. The West is simply not capable of absorbing the hundreds of millions of unskilled Third World folks clamoring to immigrate (no matter how deserving). Especially from incompatible cultures - talk to second generation Muslim immigrants in France, the Netherlands and you will be amazed by the hatred they are showing towards their (ostensive) motherland.
34
Immigration from the developing world to the developed world is not sustainable--environmentally or demographically.
Sure a little bit is OK now. But it's like compounding interest and soon it's a runaway train. And there reason to continue policies that are not sustainable despite are ability to withstand the short-term negative impact.
We need to realize that we need to become comfortable with a zero-population growth world.
Look at the the Times' article yesterday about the sickening rate of rainforest clear-cutting (via intentional forest fires) in Sumatra and Borneo to make way for palm oil plantations--despite all we know today about ecology and global warming. It only will get worse.
Sure, the developing world needs better birth control. But the developed world can't be a relief valve for the overpopulation of the developing world.
Nor can our planet and way of life sustain an economic model that dictates that global population (or the population of the developed world) cannot be allowed to decline.
In fact, we need declines in population in order to offset the increases in per capital consumption we are seeing as the world develops. Otherwise aggregate consumption (and commensurate pollution, ecological destruction and global warming) will continue to grow unchecked (or, well, until checked by forces outside our control).
Sure a little bit is OK now. But it's like compounding interest and soon it's a runaway train. And there reason to continue policies that are not sustainable despite are ability to withstand the short-term negative impact.
We need to realize that we need to become comfortable with a zero-population growth world.
Look at the the Times' article yesterday about the sickening rate of rainforest clear-cutting (via intentional forest fires) in Sumatra and Borneo to make way for palm oil plantations--despite all we know today about ecology and global warming. It only will get worse.
Sure, the developing world needs better birth control. But the developed world can't be a relief valve for the overpopulation of the developing world.
Nor can our planet and way of life sustain an economic model that dictates that global population (or the population of the developed world) cannot be allowed to decline.
In fact, we need declines in population in order to offset the increases in per capital consumption we are seeing as the world develops. Otherwise aggregate consumption (and commensurate pollution, ecological destruction and global warming) will continue to grow unchecked (or, well, until checked by forces outside our control).
73
so many on the left don't realize that open borders means the end of a green planet once and for all.
17
Certainly we need a substantial decline in the human population, but barring one or two pandemics, the failure of agriculture, the exhaustion of ocean fisheries, etc. it will never happen. Not long ago, I read a study stating that the optimum human population was only 2B. We're now above 7B. I can remember when we had 3B; that was in the 1950s and 1960s. Zero population growth has been an issue since the 1960s. Thus far, nothing has come of it, except rhetoric. Within two generations, the oceans will be dead. Much of the coral is already dead, along with the ecosystems they supported. Whales recently washed ashore in Germany, their stomachs filled with all manner of plastic, including fish nets.
10
And many on the right don't realize that the world isn't their private toilet bowl when it comes to pollution.
1
Where is the United States? Where is Canada? Where is Australia? Where is Russia? Why should all the burden fall on Western Europe in general and Germany in particular? And, let there be no doubt, it is a burden: both economically and culturally. Yes, we all wish to do what is right and humane, but we ought to do this collectively and responsibly. Further, there is a considerable challenge with this particular group of immigrants/refugees, most notably misogyny and homophobia. By now you've all heard of what happened in Cologne a couple of months ago. And most recently a group of refugees attacked a gay couple (two men holding hands affectionately) on the streets of Munich and shouted what appeared to be derogatory comments in Arabic - a single example out of many. These people should be made aware that ANY attack on European lifestyle would not be tolerated - even at the risk of deportation to Syria/Afghanistan, regardless of any risk to their own lives. It is almost as if these people are trying to recreate the cultural environment that has led to their very own misfortunes in their countries of origin. This is something we cannot and should not accept!
It's one thing to be humane in the editorial room of the New York Times. It's a different story on the streets of Germany.
It's one thing to be humane in the editorial room of the New York Times. It's a different story on the streets of Germany.
161
Um, maybe because Ms. Merkel and Germany invited the Syrians with open arms? Why would the US, Australia and others want to bring masses of un-assimilating foreigners into their countries. Some who may be potential murderers. Others who hate us.
Germany has made its bed and now must sleep in it, possibly alone.
Germany has made its bed and now must sleep in it, possibly alone.
34
"European lifestyle"
Does it include bombing Arab and Muslim land while spewing venoms toward them when they fled?
Funny. European lifestyle is now about gays and women. 10,000 women were raped in Germany last year alone by overwhelmingly European men. That's part of European lifestyle too.
Does it include bombing Arab and Muslim land while spewing venoms toward them when they fled?
Funny. European lifestyle is now about gays and women. 10,000 women were raped in Germany last year alone by overwhelmingly European men. That's part of European lifestyle too.
5
Russia is like 20% Muslim. The difference is Russia enforce secularism and would not tolerate terror cells. Europe is too soft on these "migrants" so those migrants are forcing Europe to change instead of the other way around.
42
I expect Germans for generations to come will rue Merkel's foolish open door policy that has allowed hundreds of thousands of economic migrants to pour in. As the article noted, Germany has successfully integrated prior migrant waves but not of this sort.
171
It's been well over 20 years since the beginning of german unification -- Look at the problems Germany has had integrating fellow germans! With the same religion and ethnic background.
My friends in Munich are unhappy about the influx of Kuwaiti citizens fleeing the heat and buying up RE .. and the Kuwaiti are paying. Bringing in young unaccompanied male economic migrants -- is not going to end well for Germany.
Canada, much praised on the pages of the NYT is only taking a small number (10k) -- and they must be intact family units.
My friends in Munich are unhappy about the influx of Kuwaiti citizens fleeing the heat and buying up RE .. and the Kuwaiti are paying. Bringing in young unaccompanied male economic migrants -- is not going to end well for Germany.
Canada, much praised on the pages of the NYT is only taking a small number (10k) -- and they must be intact family units.
120
The human aspect gets very much lost in the political color... desperation often attaches to any option ... maintenance of incoming cultural identities versus those of the receptor nation is factor .. the obvious is unfortunately not always the possible --or even allowed... cause is the focal problem . seen too late
we have too often what we have
we have too often what we have
2
It is disappointing that NYT use the description "immigrant" and "refugee" in almost the same sentence to describe these people as a whole.
Either you are an immigrant looking for greener pastures or you are a refugee literally escaping a country to save your life.
Refugees should have absolute priority when it comes to be taken care of - period! Giving immigrants the same status is immoral and a burden on the society that is trying to help the less fortunate refugees.
"Yasser witnessed an aerial bombardment? (No.) Had he ever fought for Bashar al-Assad? (No.) Had he fought for ISIS? (No.) A few weeks later, Yasser received notice: He had been granted refugee status." Refugee status!? This will haunt Europeans for a long time to come.
Either you are an immigrant looking for greener pastures or you are a refugee literally escaping a country to save your life.
Refugees should have absolute priority when it comes to be taken care of - period! Giving immigrants the same status is immoral and a burden on the society that is trying to help the less fortunate refugees.
"Yasser witnessed an aerial bombardment? (No.) Had he ever fought for Bashar al-Assad? (No.) Had he fought for ISIS? (No.) A few weeks later, Yasser received notice: He had been granted refugee status." Refugee status!? This will haunt Europeans for a long time to come.
116
Yasser is a deserter and would be punished with death when caught at home. Note he deserted Assad's military, a declared adversary of the United States.
2
As are many of the people still there fighting.
What has really happened is that Europe has lost control over its immigration policy. What is clear from demographics and economics is that Europe needs immigrants. There is a mismatch between the kind of immigration that Europe needs and the type it is getting. It is clear from the events that have taken place recently that Europe is on its way to developing an underclass and a problem minority that will last generations. Europe should learn from countries that have had a successful controlled immigration process such as the United States, Canada and Australia. There is the need to balance compassion with economics, xenophobia, ability of immigrants to adapt and assimilate as well as the ability of society to absorb new comers. Even during the height of the Mexican immigration exodus to the United States, it did not lose control over its immigration policy. There are no Latino Ghettos in the United States comparable to the Muslim Ghettos of Europe, pointing to the success of US policy. Support for US immigration is at an all time high according to Pew research with the debate being whom and how many to admit even during economic hard times which is the sign of a successful policy.
16
You live in a different country than the rest of us. The u.s. has lillt e control over the southern border to the point where we don't even know how many Mexicans are here
20
No Latino Ghettos?
Ever been to California? Arizona? New Mexico?
Ever been to California? Arizona? New Mexico?
32
"There are no Latino Ghettos in the United States comparable to the Muslim Ghettos of Europe, pointing to the success of US policy."
Are you kidding? From Brooklyn to Bronx to Washington Heights - plenty of Latino ghettoes exist in America just two hours north of your location.
"the success of US policy"?
Are you kidding? From Brooklyn to Bronx to Washington Heights - plenty of Latino ghettoes exist in America just two hours north of your location.
"the success of US policy"?
24
Once again, a politician, merkle in this case, decides that ordinary citizens must bear the brunt of their decisions without asking them. Much like the u.s. Europe is bing fundamentally changed ( and make no mistake, the most fundamental thing that can be done to a country is change the make up and number of its citizens) without a study or clue as to where it will lead, what it will cost or who is being admitted. Many of these refugees are young men who should be fighting for their country not going to Europe. The west should by all means be helping end the Syrian war and indeed helping in many of the conflicts that are driving the refugee crisis around the world, but moving millions of people, many with values in direct opposition to those held by their destination counties in the west is not a longterm solution. The counties of the west are on their way to sustainable populations, and should be concerned about taking care of their citizens problems instead of diverting resources to resettling immigrants.
129
"Many of these refugees are young men who should be fighting for their country not going to Europe"
why should they die for the war America started?
why should they die for the war America started?
3
These are REFUGEES, not (economic) immigrants. They would have preferred remaining in their country were it not for the likelihood of death or starvation, due to the wars occurring there. This upheaval, unfortunately, was largely due to the U.S. (and some European countries) meddling in the Middle East, attempting regime change.
Don't you think these young men would prefer living in their own country if they could?
Don't you think these young men would prefer living in their own country if they could?
2
NO! if they are given a generous welfare...........
1
Will the million plus migrants change their views on the treatment of women? Why is it xenophobic to point out that most of the migrants coming into Germany hold views on women that are offensive to us in the West? Why do many of my fellow liberals and the liberal media insist on ignoring the potential problems this population will cause? If Europe suddenly has millions of Muslim inhabitants, the rights of women will be eroded as the Islamic population increases. Women will be hissed at to cover their heads, they will be stared down as they walk in public. They will be made to feel first and foremost as a sex object and inferior to men. This may happen occasionally within their own German culture, but it is considered abhorrent in Western culture. It is rampant cultural norm in Islamic culture.
I feel like concern for women's rights in the West, for the rights of the female citizens of Germany, Sweden, etc are being completely abandoned in this misguided policy. I saw a woman in a burqa in Silicon Valley recently. Her husband was dressed in a t-shirt and jeans. She avoided eye contact with people and her husband walked ahead of her. I shuddered internally and felt a certain fear of him. I don't like this dehumanizing of women spreading in the West.
I feel like concern for women's rights in the West, for the rights of the female citizens of Germany, Sweden, etc are being completely abandoned in this misguided policy. I saw a woman in a burqa in Silicon Valley recently. Her husband was dressed in a t-shirt and jeans. She avoided eye contact with people and her husband walked ahead of her. I shuddered internally and felt a certain fear of him. I don't like this dehumanizing of women spreading in the West.
518
Getting shot or blown up or raped or sexually harassed is not a good thing either. Until Islam decides to take up the values and tolerance of the west, we are just asking for trouble.
43
My identity group is more important than your identity group!!!
6
Muslims have skyrocketed in the identity politics pecking order, didn't you know? They are a higher priority for the anti-colonialists than women now. I am not sure where they stand vs blacks, though.
17
Here's a thought for Germans who might be reading this and who are opposed to migrants from Islamic countries: Think of why this mass migration is taking place. It is primarily due to violent conflict taking place in those Islamic countries. And why is this taking place there now? Just look at the recent history of Western intervention in the Middle East and southern Asia. The United States and its allies initiated the process of ripping these countries apart and continue to play a major role in the violence with their bombings, assassinations, and arms sales. Is Germany one of these allies? It certainly is. So, Germany has played a role in causing this refugee crisis, and it should certainly do its best to see that it is justly resolved. The United States has played an even larger role, and should take the bulk of the refugees. But this great ally of the Germans, this paragon of freedom and human rights, is doing nothing to resolve the problem that it has been most responsible for creating. Ja, so, were I a German I'd start rethinking my alliances.
32
When Bush 2 invaded Iraq the Germans refused to have anything to do with it. In fact because of their history Germans are almost allergic at projecting any kind of military power. According to your logic the bulk of these refugees should be settled in the USA and the UK.
17
Gee, how come all those migrants aren't going to the Islamic paradise that surrounds them? The west has not been perfect in the Middle East or anywhere else, but blaming the only countries that routinely provide assistance in virtually every area of the world when needed is just wrong. The Middle East and its tribalism and fundamentalism have been slaughtering each other without any help from the west for centuries. Put a wall around that part of the world and come back in a couple hundred years and nothing will have changed.
43
That is the most twisted logic I've ever heard. Also, all of these Middle Eastern countries have long, LONG history of violence -- way before the US was involved and way before there was a State of Israel to hate on.
21
Kudos to photographer Hellen van Meene for the poignant photos.
14
The newcomers should adapt to the village not the other ways around. This includes dressing, education, male-female relating, and behavior at dances and swimming pools.
348
How dare these arabians try to show up without dirndl and lederhosen anyway ?
1
The refugees mentioned in the article are all men and heavy smokers. However little money they have, they do have money for cigarettes. Eventually, many of them will develop emphysema or worse, another burden on German taxpayers. One may sympathize with these mens' personal stories, but they seem to have no real interest in Germany or German culture itself. Germany just offered the best deal out of all the European countries.
274
"Eventually, many of them will develop emphysema or worse, another burden on German taxpayers."
Not to worry--the German taxpayers can easily afford it--Germany's military expenditures are tiny--no nuclear weapons, no aircraft carriers, etc.
Not to worry--the German taxpayers can easily afford it--Germany's military expenditures are tiny--no nuclear weapons, no aircraft carriers, etc.
7
Two thirds of Americans are obese. Do you worry about the American culture that led this to happen? I am assuming as a taxpayer, you'll be preaching your anti-obesity campaign very loudly to fellow Americans.
Don't just worry about refugees' health in Germany.
Don't just worry about refugees' health in Germany.
4
@Randomudde: for better or worse, those fat Americans are US citizens and work at jobs, and pay taxes.
These are foreigners, migrants and most will never hold any job. They went to Germany get to lavish German welfare benefits, nothing else.
These are foreigners, migrants and most will never hold any job. They went to Germany get to lavish German welfare benefits, nothing else.
17
Fascinating article. I completely understand the German's conflicted emotions about these interlopers seeking asylum; while I feel for people fleeing their homeland due to violence and unrest, I also don't want them living near me. The two cultures are so completely alien to one another-and the Muslim Syrians and others refuse to assimilate in the place that's opening their borders to them. It's an untenable situation. I agree with the Priest who rightly predicts that the disaffected in Germany will do exactly as the ones in Paris: live in public housing, remain unemployed and violent, and ultimately, turn to Isis if so inclined. If the refugees to Europe were at all willing to be grateful and work hard and learn local custom, I'm sure the natives wouldn't be so frightened and hostile. It's a no win situation at this time.
235
Two of the largest groups of immigrants to Hawai'i in the 19th and 20th centuries, from Japan and the Philippines, did not assimilate. They tended to live in ghettoes, maintain their ethnic customs, and not learn English (the men learned enough to get jobs; the women did not).
Their children attended the free public schools where they learned to read and write English and found jobs which were plentiful then. These children assimilated and became Americanized.
The native Hawai'ians were extremely welcoming and tolerant of foreigners, intermarrying freely with them, counterbalancing somewhat the tendencies of the dominant white power structure to discriminate.
It's not necessary for the immigrants themselves to assimilate; it's important for their children to do so.
Their children attended the free public schools where they learned to read and write English and found jobs which were plentiful then. These children assimilated and became Americanized.
The native Hawai'ians were extremely welcoming and tolerant of foreigners, intermarrying freely with them, counterbalancing somewhat the tendencies of the dominant white power structure to discriminate.
It's not necessary for the immigrants themselves to assimilate; it's important for their children to do so.
8
Unfortunately, many of the terrorists from Europe who join ISIS are children or grandchildren of middle eastern Muslim immigrants. This is who the Paris and Brussels attackers were. There is a failure to integrate, and these European nations are going to have to step up the game to enforce integration.
21
I know. I wish I had visited Europe more during the 20th century because the Europe I wanted to see probably won't exist for much longer.
It takes a lot of gall to accept asylum from a deadly situation and then scoff at assimilation and degrade the society that offered you safety and opportunity.
It takes a lot of gall to accept asylum from a deadly situation and then scoff at assimilation and degrade the society that offered you safety and opportunity.
15