An example of early "be a man" training was written in the 1820's by Anne Bronte, in her novel "The Tenant of Wildfell Hall." The heroine has to go into hiding with her five year old son because her husband, who is slipping into alcoholism, includes the boy in his roistering with like minded companions, teaching him wine drinking, bad language, and disrespect for woman- in other words, "to be a man."
Nothing is new.
Nothing is new.
6
"But these cultural activities are often denigrated as un-masculine by preadolescent and adolescent boys.” WHO GOT IT FROM WHERE?
Probably home, from dad who wants his kid to shoot guns, drive trucks and BE A MAN.
I think by the time a guy gets to college ( n.b. the Los Angeles Unified SCHOOL DISTRICT HAS A HS GRAD RATE OF 53%) he is probably pretty much fixed is cement by them. You can take the boy out of the country, but you can't take the country out of the boy still works I believe.
Also not mentioned is geography which i think plays a large part in how boys are raised. The kid that grows up in small-town Kentucky is not the same as the kid that grows up in Rochester NY.
It shouldn't take 20 of "research" to figure this stuff out, just look around. Guys are pretty evident all by themselves.
If you want to change how boys become men, start early. Watch the documentary Seven (and the continuations) . It is a wonderful education.
Probably home, from dad who wants his kid to shoot guns, drive trucks and BE A MAN.
I think by the time a guy gets to college ( n.b. the Los Angeles Unified SCHOOL DISTRICT HAS A HS GRAD RATE OF 53%) he is probably pretty much fixed is cement by them. You can take the boy out of the country, but you can't take the country out of the boy still works I believe.
Also not mentioned is geography which i think plays a large part in how boys are raised. The kid that grows up in small-town Kentucky is not the same as the kid that grows up in Rochester NY.
It shouldn't take 20 of "research" to figure this stuff out, just look around. Guys are pretty evident all by themselves.
If you want to change how boys become men, start early. Watch the documentary Seven (and the continuations) . It is a wonderful education.
2
Counselors are hopefully trained to deal with the whole range of humans and human problems. If that is no longer true, we are all in deep, deep trouble whatever specific human group we fall into. Am I missing something? Possibly this piece just over complicates things?
The most influential teachers of young heterosexual men are, by far, the young women for whom they yearn. Perhaps they are yielding to an evolutionary imperative when many such women, with their words or their actions, sometimes subtle and sometimes not so much, punish these longing men for actually sharing their feelings by kicking them to the curb.
Some women say they yearn for "emotionally available men" but, when they actually find one, the man now seems too feminine and the woman moves on.
But it must be said that the women who stay are demonstrating a rare and entirely desirable enlightenment. Their strength is their own and they know they don't need to borrow any from the "real" man in their lives. And the emotional freedom that they gift to their men inspires their men, if enlightened themselves, to become better men.
Some women say they yearn for "emotionally available men" but, when they actually find one, the man now seems too feminine and the woman moves on.
But it must be said that the women who stay are demonstrating a rare and entirely desirable enlightenment. Their strength is their own and they know they don't need to borrow any from the "real" man in their lives. And the emotional freedom that they gift to their men inspires their men, if enlightened themselves, to become better men.
9
The parents are trying to protect their kids (and themselves) by training boys to be insensitive. It's a vicious cycle that needs as much light as possible to dispel the toxic mythology and expose the overt harassment and casual brutality that props the whole stinking program up.
Men need support and early training to love and nurture themselves if we ever hope to see a world where men value and support loving relationships with others.
bell hooks covers this topic in detail: "We Real Cool: Black Men and Masculinity".
Men need support and early training to love and nurture themselves if we ever hope to see a world where men value and support loving relationships with others.
bell hooks covers this topic in detail: "We Real Cool: Black Men and Masculinity".
5
I only read the NYT picks comments, so I'm not sure if anyone else saw the connection between the masculine identity described by Professor Reiner and the Trump phenomenon. For many men, Trump embodies the male ideal: power, wealth, and beautiful women at his beck and call. For these men, Trump is who they think they should or could be.
6
So when the stereotypical, masculine behavior of men was detrimental to everyone around them (i.e. girls and women) no one cared, but now that they realize it's detrimental to themselves, it's a crisis? Please.
Whatever it takes to fix it, I guess.
Whatever it takes to fix it, I guess.
5
Literally the opposite is true. No one gives a damn how much anguish men experience over this; the author has to suggest it will help women just to support the notion that we should care about men's emotional state at all.
But it's funny you try to switch it over to men being selfish pigs.
But it's funny you try to switch it over to men being selfish pigs.
8
Hmmm, have to agree to disagree on this one.
2
So you accept the stereotype that men are stereotypes? Nice.
I find it hard to see a really bad problem here except in rare cases. After all, men have run this world since it first existed and women have had to fight for any part in it in spite of the fact that we supply the future humans to replace those that are dying off and we get little credit. I am not gonna go to the corner and cry over this article. Men's studies are just a way to promote an idea to get more funding for universities. Give men their sports, beer, gambling, and leave them alone.
2
ATTENTION ALL MEN: Let it go. You simply cannot win. Your voice is not going to be heard. You will be wrong here. Just understand this from the beginning. My suggestion to you is this: Go out and create something. Go forth and do something productive. Build something new. Be greater today than you were yesterday. Succeed. Conquer. Excel. Dominate. Exercise your will. WIN! Do something… anything other than arguing this point any further. Trust me, you’ll be better for it.
10
In my experience, there's more to being a sensitive person than mere expression of emotions, although this is a part of it. For me, being a truly sensitive person is an awareness of the world, of life, and not in some contrived New Age kind of way. In most people it has to be a cultivated, and conscious effort. But when there is a resonance with the life all around you, it's a bit of magic. When a sensitive person opens the door to their building in the morning--against the wave of traffic noise, balancing their coffee and the tools of their profession--their ears pick up several peeps coming from the bushes in front of their building. They immediately pause, and gently peel back a branch and see two Robin chicks in their nest crying to be fed. They smile at this little life drama, played a million times over across the globe.
You see your terminally ill neighbor sitting outside on their porch. And walk over to talk and listen to them--genuinely listen to them for 20-30-minutes--not with your mind wandering about the gym class that you're late for.
These are just a few of many examples of a sensitive person. And such a person is fully engaged emotionally, because their brain is diffused with an ability to walk in someone else's shoes. And this is perfect antidote for a lot of the intentional cruelty that we see all around us.
You see your terminally ill neighbor sitting outside on their porch. And walk over to talk and listen to them--genuinely listen to them for 20-30-minutes--not with your mind wandering about the gym class that you're late for.
These are just a few of many examples of a sensitive person. And such a person is fully engaged emotionally, because their brain is diffused with an ability to walk in someone else's shoes. And this is perfect antidote for a lot of the intentional cruelty that we see all around us.
13
Being able to conceal one's emotions is a useful skill. It's a useful skill to have in a lot of jobs (e.g., a trial lawyer). It can also be useful in family situations (e.g., a parent who wants to shield his/her children from the stress and uncertainty that he/she is feeling). So, I don't really see the problem with teaching a child to bear pain without crying. If taken to extremes (if a person is no longer *able* to express emotions other than, say, anger) then that's a problem. But I don't think that's terribly common (although admittedly my experience is largely limited to upper-middle-class American society).
6
Wonderful article; thank you. As the father of two boys and two girls, I am struck by how more vicious my girls can be interpersonally, more with other girls (as far as I can see) than boys. While not addressed her, I do wonder if the traditional view of the hyper-competitive male and the more cooperative/relationship-oriented female needs a revamp?
6
This article is dangerous nonsense. Men are indeed dropping out of college. But the explanation exists on campus; not so much in society. American campuses are dripping with estrogen; they can make any male leave in disgust.
Campus discourse is dominated by English lit spouting know-nothings, and by derivative-studies programs (Dragons and Dungeons; Po-PoMo, General Feelgood, Feminist Philosophy - and other non-disciplines). All problems are solved by unintelligent committees (where an administrator with 2 years of experience has the same voice as a Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering). Try putting a human in space with a committee like this.
Every campus solution relates to a hug, hold of hands, and recitation of Kumbaya. People agree to disagree; there is no objective reality. There is no room for Shakespeare, no room for Western Civilization (and this is an immigrant from the third world saying this). Hobbies have become curricula (no one wants to read good literature, or history on their own time). Students don't know from epistemology, and think Plato's cave is a campus tavern. But, boy, we have got them students feeling good about themselves; and helped them get in touch with their feelings. Students ask me, in my applied stats class "why doesn't my opinion count in your class." Undergraduates are sitting in on graduate seminars and sucking the life out of discourse.
After feminizing the campus, what were you saying about societal norms?
Kalidan
Campus discourse is dominated by English lit spouting know-nothings, and by derivative-studies programs (Dragons and Dungeons; Po-PoMo, General Feelgood, Feminist Philosophy - and other non-disciplines). All problems are solved by unintelligent committees (where an administrator with 2 years of experience has the same voice as a Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering). Try putting a human in space with a committee like this.
Every campus solution relates to a hug, hold of hands, and recitation of Kumbaya. People agree to disagree; there is no objective reality. There is no room for Shakespeare, no room for Western Civilization (and this is an immigrant from the third world saying this). Hobbies have become curricula (no one wants to read good literature, or history on their own time). Students don't know from epistemology, and think Plato's cave is a campus tavern. But, boy, we have got them students feeling good about themselves; and helped them get in touch with their feelings. Students ask me, in my applied stats class "why doesn't my opinion count in your class." Undergraduates are sitting in on graduate seminars and sucking the life out of discourse.
After feminizing the campus, what were you saying about societal norms?
Kalidan
18
Flunked out, did you?
5
@ Jill
What you just did there is called an 'ad hominem attack', where the person is attacked, not their argument.
It has been recognized as logically defective since time immemorial.
What you just did there is called an 'ad hominem attack', where the person is attacked, not their argument.
It has been recognized as logically defective since time immemorial.
9
The issue is that only a tiny percentage of people, men and women alike, are taught the most basic skills of all:
How to be a human being.
Meaning, how to utilize feelings in a productive manner, give and receive love, communicate our needs, and celebrate ourselves without intentionally demeaning others.
We're taught to read & write, add & subtract but we're not taught how to understand our human container.
Our society is currently focused on more and more STEM, which is fine.
However, if we don't learn the basics of how to live and love, no amount science will save us.
Even the concurrent mindfulness craze, though comforting to a point, is slightly misguided. The techniques require sometimes subtle, often stoic, dismissiveness of the human experience – as in:
"Those are 'just' feelings."
"Those are 'just' thoughts."
And the ever popular:
"That's just the 'ego'."
The roots of these processes often rest in the same false illusion that got us where we are today:
The human body is a problematic entity that must be controlled.
No matter what religious, spiritual, or secular systems and structures you use to become a better person, no matter what heights you climb, or depths you fall, nothing happens without the human body.
And when we finally ALL learn how to be comfortable being alive, we can finally heal all the ravages of us trying so hard NOT to be human.
How to be a human being.
Meaning, how to utilize feelings in a productive manner, give and receive love, communicate our needs, and celebrate ourselves without intentionally demeaning others.
We're taught to read & write, add & subtract but we're not taught how to understand our human container.
Our society is currently focused on more and more STEM, which is fine.
However, if we don't learn the basics of how to live and love, no amount science will save us.
Even the concurrent mindfulness craze, though comforting to a point, is slightly misguided. The techniques require sometimes subtle, often stoic, dismissiveness of the human experience – as in:
"Those are 'just' feelings."
"Those are 'just' thoughts."
And the ever popular:
"That's just the 'ego'."
The roots of these processes often rest in the same false illusion that got us where we are today:
The human body is a problematic entity that must be controlled.
No matter what religious, spiritual, or secular systems and structures you use to become a better person, no matter what heights you climb, or depths you fall, nothing happens without the human body.
And when we finally ALL learn how to be comfortable being alive, we can finally heal all the ravages of us trying so hard NOT to be human.
9
How do we help men connect with their emotions?
First, let's recognize that men are already fairly emotional, but that their emotions are squeezed into areas such as anger, sports joy, team building and courage to name the biggest. Think of the emotional strength men have in the courage to sacrifice themselves for their platoon in war and to protect their family. Men are very emotional, just not the way society now wants.
As said in my previous comment, if males are unemotional to one side of the spectrum, many women are on the opposite overly emotional position. Somewhere in the middle is where both sexes - humans - experience their true emotions with no constraints or outrageous extremes (eg. teenage females). Here are some ways to help both males and females.
From birth, never be negative on their emotional displays.
Instead, work to educate them about the emotions they are feeling.
Example, "sounds like you're feeling sad." Label their emotions for them and teach them how to self label their own emotions. There are literally hundreds of emotions they can learn about.
Add a time constraint implying emotions come and go. "Sounds like you're feeling sad RIGHT NOW." Right now says emotions flow through you.
Talk about your own emotional state to your boys and girls. "I'm feeling a llittle sad right now."
How can men become emotionally honest? By helping male babies, boys and teenagers become more emotionally intelligent. In doing so, men also help themselves.
First, let's recognize that men are already fairly emotional, but that their emotions are squeezed into areas such as anger, sports joy, team building and courage to name the biggest. Think of the emotional strength men have in the courage to sacrifice themselves for their platoon in war and to protect their family. Men are very emotional, just not the way society now wants.
As said in my previous comment, if males are unemotional to one side of the spectrum, many women are on the opposite overly emotional position. Somewhere in the middle is where both sexes - humans - experience their true emotions with no constraints or outrageous extremes (eg. teenage females). Here are some ways to help both males and females.
From birth, never be negative on their emotional displays.
Instead, work to educate them about the emotions they are feeling.
Example, "sounds like you're feeling sad." Label their emotions for them and teach them how to self label their own emotions. There are literally hundreds of emotions they can learn about.
Add a time constraint implying emotions come and go. "Sounds like you're feeling sad RIGHT NOW." Right now says emotions flow through you.
Talk about your own emotional state to your boys and girls. "I'm feeling a llittle sad right now."
How can men become emotionally honest? By helping male babies, boys and teenagers become more emotionally intelligent. In doing so, men also help themselves.
11
I loved this article and read the first 100 comments as well. Thoughtful and I'm glad the comments section is still open for my contribution.
Based on my readings, males and females are basically the same emotionally. But society's needs lead to social guard railing from birth that forces them into genderized polarized emotional roles - blue versus pink clothes, etc. All the boy raising books today say the same thing: studies show male babies are more emotional than females from birth but that they get far less comfort and support from their parents than the girls. Boys' emotions are downplayed and frowned on and this is where the great schism between males and their emotions begins.
There are many reasons for this cultural training. Not least of which is the need for males to be brave to fight in wars. And to be dispassionate and emotionless in being ruthless in managing large organizations from war to companies to sports teams. Society required this.
I would add that females don't get off easy here. Women are trained to be overly emotional the other way and men have a case when they frown on this. Don't think women are overly emotional? Then you haven't had a teenage daughter. :) That emotional behavior is as extreme as males clamping down on theirs.
How do we help men? By men (and women) helping boy babies and boys and teenagers become more emotionally intelligent. How to do that? Some exact tips in my next comment. Hopefully, I'm allowed a second comment.
Based on my readings, males and females are basically the same emotionally. But society's needs lead to social guard railing from birth that forces them into genderized polarized emotional roles - blue versus pink clothes, etc. All the boy raising books today say the same thing: studies show male babies are more emotional than females from birth but that they get far less comfort and support from their parents than the girls. Boys' emotions are downplayed and frowned on and this is where the great schism between males and their emotions begins.
There are many reasons for this cultural training. Not least of which is the need for males to be brave to fight in wars. And to be dispassionate and emotionless in being ruthless in managing large organizations from war to companies to sports teams. Society required this.
I would add that females don't get off easy here. Women are trained to be overly emotional the other way and men have a case when they frown on this. Don't think women are overly emotional? Then you haven't had a teenage daughter. :) That emotional behavior is as extreme as males clamping down on theirs.
How do we help men? By men (and women) helping boy babies and boys and teenagers become more emotionally intelligent. How to do that? Some exact tips in my next comment. Hopefully, I'm allowed a second comment.
7
I'm having a mixed reaction to this article. On one hand I want to applaud it for chipping away at the myth of "male privilege," since men are as much victims of our societal gender norms as women. Men don't "get" to make more than women, men are *expected* to make more than women, even as women complain about glass ceilings and whatnot, they still judge a man's worthiness to date by how much money he makes, with men who earn less being looked down upon. A woman takes a more demanding career, it's "you go girl!", she takes a less demanding career to be more present in her childrens' lives, she's a great mother, and there is pressure on employers to accomodate this. A man takes a more demanding career, he's a selfish, absent husband and father, he takes a less demanding career to be more present in his children's lives, he's seen as unambitious, his employer sees him as a slacker. And certainly as a more intellectual, nonathletic, dare I say "sensitive" boy and man, I certainly have felt what it is like to not be a "typical" American male.
But on the other hand, the fact that I was like that, and wherever I have gone I have had no problem finding other similar men to be friends with, guys who like to share our feelings, even share recipes with each other, shows that the emotionally disconnected "bro culture" the article describes is not as ubiquitous or deterministic as these researchers would have us believe.
But on the other hand, the fact that I was like that, and wherever I have gone I have had no problem finding other similar men to be friends with, guys who like to share our feelings, even share recipes with each other, shows that the emotionally disconnected "bro culture" the article describes is not as ubiquitous or deterministic as these researchers would have us believe.
6
Is this yet another side effect of our descent into a Spartan warrior culture? I haven't been in high school for over 20 years but even then I had a teacher reinforce the myth that you have to be cool and not look like you're working too hard. As an immigrant this truly floored me and just drove me even harder with resulting success. I hope my boys will have the strength to follow their hearts and minds equally.
2
Evolution 101. Male behavior is shaped by female preference. If being stoic and aggressive were really so distasteful to women, it would have been "de-selected" for.
Women feel they want a sensitive man, yet choose to breed with the strong aggressive men. The conflicting messages are really confusing to boys.
Women feel they want a sensitive man, yet choose to breed with the strong aggressive men. The conflicting messages are really confusing to boys.
10
Has anyone considered the gender gap in school is due to school being geared towards girls learning styles. Sit down, don't move, read, very controlled and submissive environment. However men have this thing called testosterone that makes us want to be active, aggressive, and gives way to movement. School is geared towards women on a broad and scale as being quiet, sitting and readying, thinking, cognating for hours is how you are successful. While yes men need help being able to access their emotions, myself included, as the strong, protector side of the species I will say that emotional intelligence doesn't help you when you're having to defeat an enemy or show no mercy in order to save your family and friends and your way of life, and in fact makes you weak and vulnerable. So from the warrior class I understand that teaching boys to toughen up needs some work as there is a better way to do that while still allowing your boy to be tough, I'd say this article was written by somebody who doesn't value being tough in any way and wants boys to be more like girls.
10
Why are we continuing the ridiculous stereotyping by gender that was one burning reason for feminism? Some stereotypes have truth, and this article points to some. However, the diversity within genders and humanity is the real story, and the basis for individual human rights. Arguments that "men need to do X" just lead to responses that "women need to do Y." One can accept the obvious differences between the genders on average and still demand that we see individuals, not stereotypes. If you argue that women are better at something, and men should learn, you will always imply that men are better at something else, and lead us down a sad path from the past. Both of these ideas are true...again, on average, and obvious: men are more aggressive and violent. However, these truths about averages say nothing about the individual person of either gender. THAT is the real lesson of equality.
5
Just want to point out that women have testosterone too. As a female experiential educator, young women are just as likely as young men in requiring an active, engaging, sensory-based learning environment. I'd be curious to read facts on women requiring a submissive and quiet learning environment. I don't believe that is true. We all - females and males and everyone in between - have different learning styles.
6
following up on belle hooks' potent statement published below: i was brought up in the 1940s by parents who had no vocabulary for describing feelings. my father, a diplomat by training, said he didn't understand the emotions at all. in analysis i discovered an enormous, alive, and florid range of feeling-tones coming in a wide range of intensities. for hooks to speak about self-mutilation the way she does is absolutely right on. shutting feelings down as the manly thing to do, being fearful of strong ones, is a life lived unaware of its potential. it's even tragic, killing creativity and love and so much else. for some relief, consider this from hans loewald: "it is the interplay between unconscious and consciousness, between past and present, between the intense density of undifferentiated, inarticulate experience and the lucidity of conscious articulate experience, that gives meaning to our life." [Lectures at Yale University, 1978]
3
Men are as much shaped by our opinions and desires for them as for themselves.
This holds true for women as well.
Genders exist in conversation with eachother as well as themselves.
This holds true for women as well.
Genders exist in conversation with eachother as well as themselves.
3
Speaking as a Gay father, it always astounds me that many heterosexual parents teach their male children to stifle emotions. Psychology has taught us many times that repressed emotions always rise to the surface one time or another and with great consequences. This is more than a male "pattern" issue, it has deep roots in many cultures. Giving your children space for emotions of any sort is the duty of every parent. Perhaps it would be better to encourage our children, when faced with a fearful situations, to feel free to express them in any safe means. Crying is natural to us all and the sooner it is respected as an outlet for emotions the better for us as a culture.
10
So what you're saying you want more people to act like the students where they need a "safe" place instead of dealing with life that not everything is nice and fair?!Ive been married for more then 30 years my husband like women have phases they go through that allows them to grow up and everyone is different between the time of high school (18) then they are when they hit 30. Have you or anyone ever noticed the jump in doctors prescribing xanax ,prozac all these drugs that is given to people because they have a few days of crying when they are 13 so they drug them so they don't have to deal with these feelings when these experiences is part of growing up and learning to deal with the pressures of life. That in it's self is why there are so many suicides they can't deal and being medicated so early in life prevents them from learning how. The reason I bring up dealing with life at the age of 13, this is a time where we aren't kids anymore but we are not yet adults so we feel like we don't belong. one of my nieces being put on prozac at the age of 13, to me I thought at the time this was wrong she needed to learn how to except and grow and that it doesn't last forever. Now she has been in and out of prison because of drug use and doing everything associated with drug abuse, what's sad is she is leaving behind 2 small children both under the age of 8. Who do we blame? society? Parents ( that's her fall guy is parents) ? Doctors for pushing pills as a fix? who?
2
Won't it be wonderful when we finally drop the false constructions of gender and all people are able to embrace their multifaceted selves and become whole.
7
Unfortunately, for that to happen, the genders studies staff in the humanities departments of universities will need to voluntarily agree to become unemployed. So i don't see that happening anytime soon.
2
This article is antiquated and is heavily stereotyped. It looks at the issue from a singular feminist lens. Men can still be emotionally honest if it is not expressed, in the way that in the "acceptable" way. I.e. crying when one is sad. Culture alters expression, gender does as well. Does this make the emotions any less deep or "honest"? In my experience men are just as emotive- like a good therapist they just don't talk about it with anyone who should know. Secondly, does men lagging behind educationally mean that men are doing so because they have to act cool? Could it have to do with motivation or feminism, (i.e women being told from an early age the importance of success?) Is it not possible that men act the way they do to gain acceptance from not only males but females? I.e. ostracism is a real risk of not conforming to the "norm". I know a lot of white bros and we talk about things just as deeply as I do with my female friends. Some sometimes men don't need to talk because they already know what there buddy is feeling. Talking isn't the only way to be "honest" or authentic- sometimes sitting in a room, not talking about something is when one is really being honest and the real work is being done. Words and behavior can be windows into the soul or they can be a slide of hand.
4
If it is more than stereotype that men via nature and nurture are raised to be competitive warriors and then trained to kill and conquer without remorse, is it surprising that a men's empathic natures are muted? And that recovery from PTSD requires desensitation, resensitization, and restoration of empathy? My experience as teacher suggests no reliable gender difference in capacity but rather one of facility. And then, if we continue to need effective warriors, we have a researchable dilemma.
2
Yes, Northman, I agree, it is not surprising that the culture that produces men to fight for the family, community, nation but doesn't recognize the full impact on the male psyche that is required to become a warrior/soldier then results in a unhealthy civilization. Will the warrior need to change? be replaced by something else? does war need to end? Is war a function of an inner war in the human psyche that sees fundamental separation from all things, all others, and internally as well? If that fundamental separation is healed is there less need for war? If there is a nurture and nature is no longer raising to be warriors but to abide in peace, allowing all that men are to emerge and abide in goodness and wholesomeness, do warriors find themselves out of an archetype? The Heart Warrior Project explores these themes as they go about surveying the Veterans and PTSD epidemic. Great questions to explore.
Always cracks me up when men say women are "hormonal" ......isn't men's constant drive for sex and their greater propensity for violence driven by their hormones??
When women are "hormonal" it is an insult but when are "hormonal" it seems to be a compliment!
When women are "hormonal" it is an insult but when are "hormonal" it seems to be a compliment!
6
And being emotionally honest would be rewarded...how?
1
By your being a happier person, Eric, and by making the people you care about happier too.
5
Women will commend you on your honesty and bravery, and then they will wonder why they are no longer attracted to you
5
Chris, that is a very curious statement. If I am reading you right, you are saying that from your experience, women are asking you on one level to be emotionally honest and brave, but are actually only attracted to dishonesty and cowardice? That is not my experience. Do tell more, please.
"As men continue to fall behind women in college, while outpacing them four to one in the suicide rate, some colleges are waking up to the fact that men may need to be taught to think beyond their own stereotypes."
Yes this couldn't have /anything/ to do with boys basically being treated as defective girls from kindergarten through grade 8, and now apparently in college too! Placing the blame entirely on men while ignoring how matriarchal structures like primary school and hookup culture operate is only contributing to the idea that men should hide their emotions and shoulder 100% of the burden for their problems. Recognizing how women contribute to social norms, and there sometimes negative effects, should be a very empowering prospect for feminists.
Yes this couldn't have /anything/ to do with boys basically being treated as defective girls from kindergarten through grade 8, and now apparently in college too! Placing the blame entirely on men while ignoring how matriarchal structures like primary school and hookup culture operate is only contributing to the idea that men should hide their emotions and shoulder 100% of the burden for their problems. Recognizing how women contribute to social norms, and there sometimes negative effects, should be a very empowering prospect for feminists.
8
Why do girls 'outperform' boys in school? Well, in 1993, in the first Hillary Clinton administration, we had the cry of: schools failing our girls! Schools were then slanted towards girls - hard. Boy-friendly recess? Reduced. Ritalin? Increased. And endless special programming favoring girls, up to today's 'Girls in Stem'. The SAT was even changed because boys outscore girls on math and language. Gender advocates urged the addition of the useless writing section on the SAT to improve girl's scores. Why aren't men in college? Besides the insane costs, how about the sorry spectacle of US Senators leading pogroms against male university students for phony sexual assault claims (ahem, Mattress Girl, UVA non-rape), and the federal government's out of control Title IX office defining flirting as 'sexual assault' (sadly true).
But my real problem is with the Author's (and the left's) concept that masculinity is a bad, awful thing the 'we' teach to boys. Who is the 'we'? The implication is that fathers are the problem, the supposed teachers of the badness. This is completely untrue. All research (real, non-gender studies research that is) shows that the kids committing suicide and going on killing sprees are raised by single mothers, without fathers. A father in the life of a boy (and girls too) is enormously protective against suicide, crime, etc. The article actually points to the Oregon killer as an example of run-away masculinity. He was raised by a single mom.
But my real problem is with the Author's (and the left's) concept that masculinity is a bad, awful thing the 'we' teach to boys. Who is the 'we'? The implication is that fathers are the problem, the supposed teachers of the badness. This is completely untrue. All research (real, non-gender studies research that is) shows that the kids committing suicide and going on killing sprees are raised by single mothers, without fathers. A father in the life of a boy (and girls too) is enormously protective against suicide, crime, etc. The article actually points to the Oregon killer as an example of run-away masculinity. He was raised by a single mom.
7
I think there is such a good call here for the role of fathering in our culture. I also think there is value in distinguishing between healthy and unhealthy masculinity. Masculinity is so GOOD!!!!! Generosity, legacy, passion, care, protection, service, tenderness, structure, discipline, etc... the list goes on and on. This is different than unhealthy masculine expression - when it is cut off from its core due to a variety of conditioning factors leading to violence, low self-confidence, self-hatred, greed, disconnection, domination, lack of empathy, ineffectiveness, cruelty, etc.
1
Where can I learn more about this?
1
Check out books by Daniel Goleman on emotional intelligence.
1
Robert Augustus Masters wrote an excellent book called 'To Be A Man.' Also, the Mankind Project and Robert Bly have treasures to share.
I can't claim I know the experience of other men or women, but I want to learn more. I've often felt emotionally isolated in my life, and I wonder if learning more about this can help me better connect with my peers.
If you have some suggestions for where I can learn more about this, I would greatly appreciate it.
If you have some suggestions for where I can learn more about this, I would greatly appreciate it.
4
Good for you Dan. After a childhood of post-Great-Depression material and emotional poverty I spent the first half of life emotionally unintelligent, expressing secondary anger instead of primary emotions like fear. I alienated needed partners. A sentinel event warranted reflective journaling following a public display of anger that alienated a learning group. Then I read nothing in that journal about anger, rather about fear, disappointment, abandonment and humiliation. Like a Cocker Spaniel I was, a fear-biter. It's been rewarding to discover capacity for a richer set of emotions, to progress toward quicker awareness of emotional activations and their accurate identification and then a rational decision on behavioral response. I hear I'm now appreciated more strongly as colleague, friend, and family member. And it seems infinitely learnable. Best wishes.
Women are allowed to express every emotion EXCEPT anger. Men are only allowed to express ONE emotion - anger. This is why we have so much trouble understanding the underlying causes of each others' behavior. Women cry when they are angry. Men rage when they experience fear. The range of all emotions should be allowed to both males and females.
25
There is a difference between masculinity and machismo. Machismo is mean and dumb. Masculinity is kind-hearted and intelligent.
Unfortunately, the pop culture marketed to boys these days is all about machismo, with Our Hero solving problems by killing faceless "bad guys," driving cool vehicles to escape said bad guys, blowing things up, and having a girlfriend in a skintight costume.
I was delighted to see The Martian, a film in which Our Hero used his brains to solve his problems, the female characters were the equals of the males, and countries cooperated with one another.
Surely our pop culture is partly to blame for the epidemic of under-achieving boys. Even twenty years ago, when I was still in academia, there were boys who were afraid to let anyone know that they were intelligent. I was thankful for the ones who were not ashamed to study and to maintain an active mind. The rest seemed more concerned about gaining the approval of their macho peers than about their own futures.
Unfortunately, the pop culture marketed to boys these days is all about machismo, with Our Hero solving problems by killing faceless "bad guys," driving cool vehicles to escape said bad guys, blowing things up, and having a girlfriend in a skintight costume.
I was delighted to see The Martian, a film in which Our Hero used his brains to solve his problems, the female characters were the equals of the males, and countries cooperated with one another.
Surely our pop culture is partly to blame for the epidemic of under-achieving boys. Even twenty years ago, when I was still in academia, there were boys who were afraid to let anyone know that they were intelligent. I was thankful for the ones who were not ashamed to study and to maintain an active mind. The rest seemed more concerned about gaining the approval of their macho peers than about their own futures.
16
This piece seems to do little more than perpetuate stereotypes of stereotypes. I find that many of these stereotypes don't hold for the vast majority of men I know personally and professionally -- including in broad segments of the "hyper-masculine" culture of the military.
2
Interesting, in the context of this entire essay that the phrase "thin skinned' was used by the author to describe you college men.
Isn't that just perpetuating the idea of being open to emotional attachment is weak?
Isn't that just perpetuating the idea of being open to emotional attachment is weak?
2
The expression thin skinned jumped off the page for me too. I had to read the sentence e again to make sure that's what it really said. It's obviously very difficult to rid oneself of deep-seeded bias.
1
As Professor Reiner so presciently notes, stereotypes die hard. And, why wouldn't they? He leads an Honors College seminar that teaches 80% of the attendees that the other 20% of the attendees are fundamentally broken and in need of retreading. Do the broken 20% feel uncomfortable as they spend an entire semester as the objectives of intense scrutiny based on their emotional shortcomings as a human being. Or, are the 20% thankful for the opportunity to closely observe the 80% who are role models for their transformation?
As they say, it's all academic.
I do hope that Professor Reiner also offers an Honors College seminar that addresses the sterotypes of feminine emotionality. After all, if the Academy can teach Men to be emotionally honest, it is only socially fair and equitable to also teach Women to be emotionally honest, too.
True Gender Equality calls for nothing less.
As they say, it's all academic.
I do hope that Professor Reiner also offers an Honors College seminar that addresses the sterotypes of feminine emotionality. After all, if the Academy can teach Men to be emotionally honest, it is only socially fair and equitable to also teach Women to be emotionally honest, too.
True Gender Equality calls for nothing less.
4
I am not sure about the author's assessment of the source of the problem, but I can affirm that there is a problem. I am a young, male chemistry professor and have been teaching mostly 18-22 year olds for about 10 years. The maturity gap between men and women is disturbing and seemingly growing wider every year. In a class of 300, the top 30 students are almost invariably women whereas when I started it was more like 20 of 30 were women.
The thing that baffles me, and somewhat contradicts the authors point, is that male behavior at this age is completely unmasculine. The 'men' that show up in my classroom are for the most part lazy, whiney, uninteresting, disheveled POSs. It is sad.
The thing that baffles me, and somewhat contradicts the authors point, is that male behavior at this age is completely unmasculine. The 'men' that show up in my classroom are for the most part lazy, whiney, uninteresting, disheveled POSs. It is sad.
4
The idea that women tend to practice "relational aggression" versus maybe more physical aggression that men tend to use might explain some of my own experiences. As a girl, I was frankly terrified of the other girls as I was somewhat slow to develop socially and had a very hard time learning how girls / women operate in their friendships. In my young adulthood I found it a lot easier to deal with men, in daily life, as they seemed more straightforward. I can only imagine what it must be like for most men when dealing with someone who is using complex and well practiced relational skills including relational aggression. As a mental health provider, I see many veterans who were more comfortable in physical skills to begin with, who can take a lot of physical pain, but are quite uncomfortable with emotional pain. Yes, anger is one easier way to express it. And they aren't necessarily much for talking at length about their feelings. Although socialization is undoubtedly a factor, I have come to believe some people really don't deal with their emotions best that way - they need something more holistic and physically engaged as well as mentally.
14
How much of ignoring their plight is a response to their foot-dragging and whining about allowing women and PoC equal time/space on campus? Men, especially young men, tend to believe that their health and privileges will last forever, and they have no need to pay in to society because they get nothing from it.
Perhaps if they changed the way they treat other people, they would find themselves treated better. Now where I have I heard that idea before?
Perhaps if they changed the way they treat other people, they would find themselves treated better. Now where I have I heard that idea before?
1
I'm not sure how blaming men for this helps. In my experience, all young people are a bit overconfident. The article is about how gender roles confine men to behaviors that done serve them. No person alive today is responsible for creating gender roles as they are, but we can do our best to move toward allowing ourselves and others true expression. We're all in this together. Let's try to make the world a bit better for each other.
1
Seriously, emotionally honest? How ridick. According to whose terms? According to what concordance of communicative enough? According to what choice of words or authors? You want Hemingway or James? They're different, but who is better may be a matter of taste--and intelligence!!
3
I disagree with the entire premise of the article.
Men and women both have the full range of emotion. Look us in the face, women. Men express tenderness, sorrow and compassion, but more subtly than women. Women express anger as frequently as men, but in a less demonstrative manner.
Maybe its time we stop inventing fictional social phenomena and making them into feminist issues.
Men and women both have the full range of emotion. Look us in the face, women. Men express tenderness, sorrow and compassion, but more subtly than women. Women express anger as frequently as men, but in a less demonstrative manner.
Maybe its time we stop inventing fictional social phenomena and making them into feminist issues.
12
Speaking from my perspective as a man, I can say, pretty comfortably, after 50 years of experience, that being somewhat emotionally detached from people and things has served my very well in my business pursuits but only so-so in my personal life. I try to keep a balance between the two worlds, but it can be challenging. I currently support several people financially and being "warm and fuzzy" is not in the playbook when it comes to this.
10
I feel the same way.
I feel the same way but I am a woman and do the financial supporting, so so in my personal life.
2
Aimed at a boy, "Sissy" was a powerful word when I was a kid, effectively if crudely used to shape our notions of masculinity (and to devalue the feminine). Interestingly, the word "sissy" used to mean a cowardly or effeminate person doesn't come into our language until 1887, according to the Oxford English Dictionary. And it originated in the Unites States.
2
Maybe it derived from "weak sister"?
Men also were trained to open stuck jars, use tools and fix things, and, of course, kill spiders. This indoctrination into masculinity happens thousands of ways and times during our formative years and beyond. The females around us are as guilty of reinforcing the stereotype as are the males.
8
Hello - there are plenty of venues and places where the discussion of females and femininity go on - in fact it's an active and vibrant even loud dialog and conversation - thus article is about something else. Peace.
2
Opening stuck jars isn't a matter of training, or of masculinity. It's a matter of the leverage you can get when your hands are larger. Pure physics and that's it. My husband is happy to open jars for me, but he also found some rubbery devices I can use to get a better grip and open them for myself.
I can use tools and fix things, and kill spiders, and pick up snakes, and so forth and so on as well. Was I indoctrinated into masculinity? You might think so but I don't see it that way. I also don't think men are indoctrinated into femininity when they learn to wash dishes and change diapers. Anybody is better off when they increase the number of things they are competent at.
I can use tools and fix things, and kill spiders, and pick up snakes, and so forth and so on as well. Was I indoctrinated into masculinity? You might think so but I don't see it that way. I also don't think men are indoctrinated into femininity when they learn to wash dishes and change diapers. Anybody is better off when they increase the number of things they are competent at.
5
To view masculinity and masculine norms without female contributions to it would be a disservice to the discussion. These norms originate from certain gender role consensus that developed through the years. Things like mate selection and relationship management, where the two genders played major roles, established these norms of masculinity (and femininity). The norms may be archaic and in need of reform, particularly ones that deal with emotions, but imagine being a male hunter who cried every time he killed an animal 5000 years ago. No food on the table means you starve and so does your family, if you have one. Most females at that time would choose a male with the capacity to adeptly hunt and physically protect the family when needed. So when the male has a son, he indoctrinates his son to suppress certain emotions because its disadvantageous to use them. While the world has changed drastically through the years, gender roles and norms have been more stagnant for both genders.
I'm so confused. If men's masculinity is in question shouldn't women's femininity be also? It's weird to think nature gave us hormones or whatever to be a certain way and now we are questioning only one side of that coin. Seems very short sided as well as one sided.
2
Of course. There are a million articles about how women aren't actually weak and stupid but are expected to pretend to be. This article just happens to be about how gender roles are hurting men.
9
Jack, women's femininity has been questioned for quite some time now. Is it unfeminine to work outside the home? To seek management positions and negotiate for better pay? To want to work as a police officer or a fire fighter, or to join the military? The discussion of women's femininity goes back to the 20's when women began bobbing their hair, and even further back than that.
And the question is, does nature give or hormones or whatever to be a certain way, or are we coming up with these things on our own; and if nature does give us hormones to be a certain way, is it the end of the world if we use our minds to choose something different.
And the question is, does nature give or hormones or whatever to be a certain way, or are we coming up with these things on our own; and if nature does give us hormones to be a certain way, is it the end of the world if we use our minds to choose something different.
7
Thanks for this article. This certainly rings true with the male university students that I supervise, especially with their attitudes about grades. I hope our culture will address this as on so many levels this is just wrong. And I believe the mismatch between what the current workforce/culture can offer young men just reinforces emotional problems.
1
The emotional stability difference between man and women is directly due to our bringing up girls humble and our boys macho. Wisdom is selflessness and the face of selflessness is humbleness. Ignorance is machoness. Thus we provide wiser upbringing to our girls and we cultivate ignorance in our boys. We make our girls' brains emotionally stable while making our boys brains emotionally challenged. All the ills of society are emotionally challenged behaviors that stem from machoness. Just imagine if we brought up our boys and girls as humble as humanly possible.
Let's start by defining wisdom as humbleness and ignorance as machoness. I have been researching wisdom for the last 40 years and have published 1600+ articles on related topics. Please google, 4th r foundation sajid'.
Let's start by defining wisdom as humbleness and ignorance as machoness. I have been researching wisdom for the last 40 years and have published 1600+ articles on related topics. Please google, 4th r foundation sajid'.
1
These comments are very telling and revealing of how much hatred and disrespect American men have for women and anything they perceive as feminine.
8
A fair number of us have been abused by women -- physically, emotionally and sexually. And this society, lead by feminists, denies our experiences and gives us nowhere to turn for support.
What do you expect?
What do you expect?
5
Women have been abused by men since time immemorial. What's men's excuse?
8
Two wrongs make a right.
Or is it too wrongs make a write?
Wait this is all nonsense!
Or is it too wrongs make a write?
Wait this is all nonsense!
As a retired Pre school director and a man, I observed :95% of role models are women, dress up is pretty much a mix of boys and girls, Halloween is very gender specific, and girls are generally more social earlier but not necessarily kinder or better problem solvers. My own son and daughter followed stereo typical gender based activities, because of their friends choices. As parents eating dinner together 6 nights a week seems to help mitigate most emotional issues: my daughter wants to be a doctor and my son-business and economics. Families that cannot provide or stay together-I blame economic inequality and the stress of poverty-create the emotional issuers we see today. Productive parents, productive kids.
1
I have always thought of men as being more honest and easier to read than women by miles. I don't understand much of this article as being my life experience but if the author is only looking at immature young men that's not a very good sample to choose from.
On another note society does not want men that cry. Go to family court and watch a few divorce proceedings and the woman cries and gets the empathy typically experienced by a 5 year old and the man gets his life destroyed and is supposed to suck it up. This might lead to anger but that's too emotionally honest. We can't have that.
Having said all this I still don't understand this article.
On another note society does not want men that cry. Go to family court and watch a few divorce proceedings and the woman cries and gets the empathy typically experienced by a 5 year old and the man gets his life destroyed and is supposed to suck it up. This might lead to anger but that's too emotionally honest. We can't have that.
Having said all this I still don't understand this article.
3
Not only do men see themselves above emotional vulnerability, women help to affirm this perception. In my opinion it has more to do with both men and women referring to God as male in all the major religions – Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Men must emulate the most perfect entity (ever seen God cry?); women are simply disqualified and so are free to emote at will. God, expressed as male every day in a person’s life, might just have an effect on how men and women emotionally develop.
Interestingly, patriarchy gained a foothold 10,000 years ago when hunting/gathering stopped and trading and the accumulation of wealth started. Women were stuck with motherhood responsibilities. Patriarchy was firmly entrenched about 5,000 years later when the major religions came into existence, declaring a male god.
Interestingly, patriarchy gained a foothold 10,000 years ago when hunting/gathering stopped and trading and the accumulation of wealth started. Women were stuck with motherhood responsibilities. Patriarchy was firmly entrenched about 5,000 years later when the major religions came into existence, declaring a male god.
1
Jesus wept.
- John 11:35
- John 11:35
3
Much of the most richly emotional literature, poetry, art, music, etc. the world has ever known has been produced by men from patriarchal societies. The notion that 'patriarchy' prevents men from expressing such things seems quite clearly and demonstrably wrong. In my experience, my male acquaintances from highly patriarchal societies have far more latitude to express themselves in such ways than men generally do in many Western countries. They enjoy rich emotional intimacy with other men and the sorts of close male friendships that few have over here. Within the West the same is often true of men in the most exclusively masculine contexts.
Part of the reason why this is the case is because such contexts naturally socially differentiate men from women, preserving them from a constant pressure to establish such a differentiation performatively (taboos on homosexuality in such cultures also often permit men the possibility of deep male intimacy without having to perform their heterosexuality—male friendships are frequently profoundly intimate in such traditional societies). Give men the freedom of non-feminized and non-sexualized contexts, and they can prove profoundly emotionally articulate. The problems come when men are denied their own contexts, or such contexts are pushed to the most puerile margins of male activity. Unfortunately, male homosociality and male contexts get unfairly pathologized as exclusionary towards women or as revelatory of repressed homosexuality.
Part of the reason why this is the case is because such contexts naturally socially differentiate men from women, preserving them from a constant pressure to establish such a differentiation performatively (taboos on homosexuality in such cultures also often permit men the possibility of deep male intimacy without having to perform their heterosexuality—male friendships are frequently profoundly intimate in such traditional societies). Give men the freedom of non-feminized and non-sexualized contexts, and they can prove profoundly emotionally articulate. The problems come when men are denied their own contexts, or such contexts are pushed to the most puerile margins of male activity. Unfortunately, male homosociality and male contexts get unfairly pathologized as exclusionary towards women or as revelatory of repressed homosexuality.
7
This is very interesting and seemingly plausible where men in socially sanctioned traditionally exclusive men's groups feel free perhaps with expectation to be emotionally intimate. Where to learn more about this?
I replied earlier on this, but The Mankind Project is quite a treasure to help learn about this and link with other men connecting authentically and serving their communities.
Said one U.S. soldier to another (after they had taken the masculinity course): "I meant to shoot that ISIS guy in the face, but instead of my fear mutating into anger, I just started crying. Sorry he was able to clack off that suicide vest and take out half your squad and all those civilians."
What I do not understand in the comments, is the fierce defense of a very narrow, contemporary, western definition of masculinity, claiming it as natural and necessary. Given the relative obscurity to which women have been relegated for most of history, I understand how people would think that women have always been this or that. But men? They have been engineers and philosophers, mystics and warriors, dreamers, poets, musicians, scholars, diplomats, dancers, generals ans pacifists, romantics and dandies.
You have to discard millenias of history and art to say that men are unemotional. Is Byron the romantic not man enough for you? Is Einstein too geeky to be a real man? Don Juan and Casanova would be considered effeminate, «gay» by today's US standards; it does not seem to have hurt them with the opposite sex. Romeo & Juliette was not written by or for women.
And to the claim that it's all a result of evolutionary conditioned mating strategies - for millenia, women's «natural» attractions were not only irrelevant, but actively suppressed. It's not the young women, but their FATHERS who were attracted to power and wealth. Maybe it was just a huge misunderstanding, and if only they had let their daughters follow their instincts, they would naturally have gone for the rich, the powerful, the older protectors and providers, eschewing the weak, the penniless, the charmers, the romantics, dreamers and serenade singers, that caused their fathers so much angst?
You have to discard millenias of history and art to say that men are unemotional. Is Byron the romantic not man enough for you? Is Einstein too geeky to be a real man? Don Juan and Casanova would be considered effeminate, «gay» by today's US standards; it does not seem to have hurt them with the opposite sex. Romeo & Juliette was not written by or for women.
And to the claim that it's all a result of evolutionary conditioned mating strategies - for millenia, women's «natural» attractions were not only irrelevant, but actively suppressed. It's not the young women, but their FATHERS who were attracted to power and wealth. Maybe it was just a huge misunderstanding, and if only they had let their daughters follow their instincts, they would naturally have gone for the rich, the powerful, the older protectors and providers, eschewing the weak, the penniless, the charmers, the romantics, dreamers and serenade singers, that caused their fathers so much angst?
7
There are some good items in here, but the article itself is crap. The professor says he is going to talk about men and their emotions, but only discusses behavior. What upsets* me the most is the premise that men aren't emotional and that they need to be taught to be emotional, presumably by women, the experts.
There's a famous study that showed emotionally-packed movie scenes to men and women while being observed and hooked up to an EKG and other instruments (like they do for a lie detector). What the researchers found was that when looking at their faces (using a taxonomy of expressions) the difference was remarkable. But the electronic equipment told a different story. Everyone in the study responded almost identically to the scenes. In fact, the researchers could not tell men from women by looking at their scores. The researchers concluded that men are emotionally less expressive. Given the same data, I could just as easily conclude that women are overly expressive.
The professor says that men are taught to be less emotional. By the same token, we could say that women are taught to be more emotional. So the truth is, regardless of what the professor says in the article, is that men are just as emotional as women.
*For the record, upset is an emotion. I felt upset, I acknowledged it, and I expressed it. There. I'm an emotional man.
There's a famous study that showed emotionally-packed movie scenes to men and women while being observed and hooked up to an EKG and other instruments (like they do for a lie detector). What the researchers found was that when looking at their faces (using a taxonomy of expressions) the difference was remarkable. But the electronic equipment told a different story. Everyone in the study responded almost identically to the scenes. In fact, the researchers could not tell men from women by looking at their scores. The researchers concluded that men are emotionally less expressive. Given the same data, I could just as easily conclude that women are overly expressive.
The professor says that men are taught to be less emotional. By the same token, we could say that women are taught to be more emotional. So the truth is, regardless of what the professor says in the article, is that men are just as emotional as women.
*For the record, upset is an emotion. I felt upset, I acknowledged it, and I expressed it. There. I'm an emotional man.
7
"*For the record, upset is an emotion. I felt upset, I acknowledged it, and I expressed it. There. I'm an emotional man."
Yes, indeed. Had you felt upset, not recognized the emotion because you were consistently redirected as a toddler, and lashed out in anger because that's what you were taught to do, you'd still be an emotional man, but you and everyone around you would suffer for it.
Yes, indeed. Had you felt upset, not recognized the emotion because you were consistently redirected as a toddler, and lashed out in anger because that's what you were taught to do, you'd still be an emotional man, but you and everyone around you would suffer for it.
4
I hadn't realized, before reading many of these comments, that men still hated women with such cocky, capitalistic, American confidence.
I will now go take a long walk.
I will now go take a long walk.
12
Going through my teenage years watching my father wither away from cancer and pass away, with a strident 1970s San Francisco card-carrying-feminist mother, I wasn't allowed any room for emotional expressiveness around grief and loss after his death, and in fact my mother judged me harshly and ostracized me whenever I showed any emotion. In my malformed youthful being, I assumed some masculine value in this stoic repressiveness (toughness being a good thing), but in fact it was modeled into me by a feminism conveniently projecting its own fears.
While my mother may have been an extreme case, the psychological underpinnings are clear across the board: women are often more afraid of male emotional rawness than men and boys themselves are. The net result is often that younger men are repressed into a passive aggressive low-boil rage, and this sublimation is a convenient straw...uhhh...man....onto which feminism can anneal powerful male stereotypes.
I now allow myself emotional vulnerability around a community of like-minded men, but tread very lightly in the company of women -- not out of my own fear, but out of knowledge and acceptance that my deeper emotional world can be a trigger for feminine fear.
It is what it is.
Nurturing, maternal, feminine energy is beautiful, and powerful, but like all things human: it's imperfect.
And I don't lament the fact that alpha men -- flawed, yes -- still very much matter, and women still very much prefer their company.
While my mother may have been an extreme case, the psychological underpinnings are clear across the board: women are often more afraid of male emotional rawness than men and boys themselves are. The net result is often that younger men are repressed into a passive aggressive low-boil rage, and this sublimation is a convenient straw...uhhh...man....onto which feminism can anneal powerful male stereotypes.
I now allow myself emotional vulnerability around a community of like-minded men, but tread very lightly in the company of women -- not out of my own fear, but out of knowledge and acceptance that my deeper emotional world can be a trigger for feminine fear.
It is what it is.
Nurturing, maternal, feminine energy is beautiful, and powerful, but like all things human: it's imperfect.
And I don't lament the fact that alpha men -- flawed, yes -- still very much matter, and women still very much prefer their company.
23
Nailed it. It isn't that fathers are compelling sons to be less emotional, stoic, self-contained, it's also mom's who have some of the responsibility. A lot of women like men who act like men; that is, stoic, emotionally contained, self-controlled. It's seen as manly. Probably by as many women as men.
3
This.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Encouraging men to be more emotionally honest would be harder than promoting the acceptance of the gay community in society. It just defies the traits that are ingrained into people's minds almost as soon as they enter this world. The role of the male is to provide, fix things, and be strong. Women are more caring, expressive, and nurturing. I know that the article mentions that men, too, can have deep, meaningful relationships (which is still very true), but maybe those ingrained traits were meant to be that way. There's a reason why we evolved into what we are today. These habits go way back to caveman times. It's hard to live in an equal society when males and females are just wired different physically and mentally. A little change here and there will fix some of the "extrem-izing" of stereotypes that's been going on lately, but I say we stay as close to the way that we were built to be.
2
I agree. Each of us is an individual and therefore built to be different than the next. It doesn't seem that forcing ourselves into gender roles and divisions of labor from a time when our main purpose was to survive long enough to birth and rear young is working anymore.
1
Wonder if this writer ever considered that the reason men don't care to do well in his class is that the subject matter is useless? Crying is a most ridiculous emotion. Yes, women use it to gain a tactical advantage in disputes at home and in the office but men can't and should not do that.
5
1 - Crying is not an emotion. It is a physiological response to emotion.
2 - It's my experience, and the experience of women I've spoken with, that we desperately don't want to cry because crying makes us look weak, and because men react to it with anger and even rage. It's completely involuntary and we would give anything not to do it. This: "women use it to gain a tactical advantage in disputes at home and in the office" - what tactical advantage do we get from your anger and contempt?
3 - Even though we hate our own crying, we hate your screaming, cursing, hardhat-throwing much more. And if we had to choose between a few tears from you or your door-slamming and yelling, we'd rather you teared up.
2 - It's my experience, and the experience of women I've spoken with, that we desperately don't want to cry because crying makes us look weak, and because men react to it with anger and even rage. It's completely involuntary and we would give anything not to do it. This: "women use it to gain a tactical advantage in disputes at home and in the office" - what tactical advantage do we get from your anger and contempt?
3 - Even though we hate our own crying, we hate your screaming, cursing, hardhat-throwing much more. And if we had to choose between a few tears from you or your door-slamming and yelling, we'd rather you teared up.
7
I often hear more misogynist type guys express this view of women's tears. They think that when a woman cries, it is not about how she is feeling. No - it is about men and about women trying to manipulate men. When a woman is crying they get angry. When a woman is crying they want to hurt her.
7
Sharing feelings is NOT what women want. Honesty is NOT what women want. They want a man to be CONFIDENT and TACTFUL.
Until we're 50 -- or older -- most men think "Let's be emotionally honest with each other" means, "Lets play who can tell the more sincere sad story that has a happy ending".
While we are young, teenage girls do NOT have the emotional strength to deal with a young man who tells her he hates himself, hates his appearance, hates his parents, and is afraid for his future -- that's how at least a fifth of all young men feel throughout high school. Those young men's parents live to become grandparents because their sons REPRESS their negative emotions until they become old enough, rich enough, and mature enough to be able to deal with their feelings.
Repression can be very beneficial for people and society. Just picture how much better off we all would be if Donald Trump was much, much more repressed.
Until we're 50 -- or older -- most men think "Let's be emotionally honest with each other" means, "Lets play who can tell the more sincere sad story that has a happy ending".
While we are young, teenage girls do NOT have the emotional strength to deal with a young man who tells her he hates himself, hates his appearance, hates his parents, and is afraid for his future -- that's how at least a fifth of all young men feel throughout high school. Those young men's parents live to become grandparents because their sons REPRESS their negative emotions until they become old enough, rich enough, and mature enough to be able to deal with their feelings.
Repression can be very beneficial for people and society. Just picture how much better off we all would be if Donald Trump was much, much more repressed.
11
Not true, at all.
2
at least this guy gets it
Hi BigGuy, I am not a woman, so I can't say for sure how they feel about this issue. I can say what I have learned from the women friends, partners, and coworkers that I have gotten to know over the years. They do want emotional honesty, integrity, responsibility, confidence, vulnerability, and this is different than a man that has unresolved issues that he is looking for his partner to be his mother or take care of all of his feelings. Perhaps the young boys could have another option of where to go with their feelings about themselves beside their peers? There is a difference between inviting a narcissist to contain his tirades (which I agree is needed - but usually they only do that when people stop giving them attention) and a young person learning to mature and hold himself emotionally. He learns this by being held by others as he is freely feeling rather than repressing. Repression just leads to subjugation, sublimation, and projection. Fractioning the person from them self and distancing from honest relationship with themselves and others in my experience.
Years and years ago I grew tired of the emotional ineptitude, spiritual vacancy, and general misogyny I saw I amongst my guy friends. What brought up more sadness was the women who tolerated it out of their own sense of lack or fear. I think many men, myself included, lack literacy around how to articulate their feelings, where they feel them, and how to work through them versus numbing them away.
12 years ago, I participated in The New Warrior Training Adventure; an awareness training facilitated by the international men's organization the Mankind Project - a not for profit, grassroots organization centered around vulnerability, accountability, service, and the sacred masculine. The women's equivalent is called Women Within.
We work on developing a non-denominational, non-religious sense of spirit, emotional literacy, leadership, and mentorship. The intention is to cultivate real passion, compassion, and to own our judgments; to practice authentic honest communication, challenge the ego, and take risks.
There is a way to weave what Joseph Campbell dubbed the 'heroes journey' into one's life in order to refine and define a sense of mission and purpose. There is a way of being a man that counters the 'Macho' or 'New Age' man... One that is a feminist, a humanist; A new warrior in a modern world. Conscious. Loving. Strong. Gentle. Compassionate. Awake.
12 years ago, I participated in The New Warrior Training Adventure; an awareness training facilitated by the international men's organization the Mankind Project - a not for profit, grassroots organization centered around vulnerability, accountability, service, and the sacred masculine. The women's equivalent is called Women Within.
We work on developing a non-denominational, non-religious sense of spirit, emotional literacy, leadership, and mentorship. The intention is to cultivate real passion, compassion, and to own our judgments; to practice authentic honest communication, challenge the ego, and take risks.
There is a way to weave what Joseph Campbell dubbed the 'heroes journey' into one's life in order to refine and define a sense of mission and purpose. There is a way of being a man that counters the 'Macho' or 'New Age' man... One that is a feminist, a humanist; A new warrior in a modern world. Conscious. Loving. Strong. Gentle. Compassionate. Awake.
6
Let's teach everyone.
2
Mother of God it's the sensitive man of 1970s, exhumed and walking about like a Stephen King zombie. Run!
4
Certainly, emoting is necessary part of life, but women seem only interested in those expressions when the situation directly affects the man; should he break down over an event that affects the woman, he is likely to be scorned by her. Thus, men adapt and learn to contain their emotions until such time there is adequate privacy to express themselves safely. I am a 52 year old father of two sons, and this is what I've taught them, and they have experienced in their own lives.
The decline in the number of fraternal organizations has probably more to do with the perceived problems men have with their emotions than anything else; where once there were bowling alleys, poker nights, and lodges all across the country, the simple act of men getting together to be themselves has been all but eradicated from the landscape. The passing on of wisdom and experience, of the learned behavior from men experiencing the same trials and tribulations, is a dying art.
The decline in the number of fraternal organizations has probably more to do with the perceived problems men have with their emotions than anything else; where once there were bowling alleys, poker nights, and lodges all across the country, the simple act of men getting together to be themselves has been all but eradicated from the landscape. The passing on of wisdom and experience, of the learned behavior from men experiencing the same trials and tribulations, is a dying art.
11
100% Agree. Men don't need to be emotional in front of women, although on some occasions it's alright. (I've been emotional in front of several women)
I also agree we need to bring men-only spaces back, where man can be themselves, not constantly posturing in front of women (we do a lot of that) and form authentic and real relationships and friendships. Friends you can confide in. Too bad that many of these places for men to gather have been eradicated from our society or culture.
I also agree we need to bring men-only spaces back, where man can be themselves, not constantly posturing in front of women (we do a lot of that) and form authentic and real relationships and friendships. Friends you can confide in. Too bad that many of these places for men to gather have been eradicated from our society or culture.
1
We can teach men to be emotionally honest but we also have to teach women to accept emotionally honest men.
I was in graduate school having dinner with my cohort. One of the young ladies had broken up with her boyfriend because he had cried in front of her and she lost all respect for him. I remember being shocked and asking her why she shamed a man for emoting, which is a normal behavior. Her confusion at my question was my first inkling that some women did not want emotionally honest men.
I was in graduate school having dinner with my cohort. One of the young ladies had broken up with her boyfriend because he had cried in front of her and she lost all respect for him. I remember being shocked and asking her why she shamed a man for emoting, which is a normal behavior. Her confusion at my question was my first inkling that some women did not want emotionally honest men.
14
Wow. shouldn't people be honest for the sake of being honest instead of doing it for someone to "accept" them? Maybe they should make sure that their friends accept them for who they are...since otherwise they are not exactly friends...?
I completely agree that women participate in the perpetuation of societal norms of masculinity (we are, in fact, part of society), and that the possibility of romantic rejection is a real and frightening hurdle men face when trying to go outside the boundaries of current gender roles. However the issue here isn't whether men ought to emote more in order to attract or please romantic partners, but that it is essential for their well-being. Some men don't want to date women who are "too" confident or smart or professionally successful, but that doesn't mean those things aren't desirable or beneficial for the women concerned or for society as a whole.
4
This article is about college-aged men. 90% of decisions in this group are driven by sex. If they need to choose between modulating their emotional behavior one way to improve their well-being, or modulating another way to attract romantic partners, the choice is an obvious one. The "bro code" rules are behaviors perceived as enabling its followers to have more sex. If college-aged men saw their kind, emotive colleagues being more successful romantically, the "bro code" would change.
Help me, other men, and women to be emotionally present, emotionally aware, emotionally real, emotionally sensitive, emotionally intuitive, emotionally receptive, emotionally creative, and emotionally expressive.
7
At 60, I look back to my bespectacled, bullied, adolescence, and the decades I spent trying to give up feelings of inadequacy that the lies of peers, and the media engendered. I always felt like the one who was tolerated when in a group of high achievers. I have in recent years become quite comfortable in my own skin, and genuinely care not a whit about others' opinions of me. Would that I could counsel my younger self; would that he would listen.
11
As long as we don't confuse repression and suppression with what I offer are very needed tonics to society called restraint and calm.
2
Attitudinal differences between the sexes may be exacerbated by society, but many of those differences are inherent. Attitudes and behaviors that we identify as male--toughness in the face of adversity, an ability to be cold hearted, and the 'rescue gene'--have served us well historically, as have female attitudes and behaviors--nurturing and communication.
There's no denying that men are more prone to violence and crime. When humans roamed the earth raping and pillaging (which was relatively recently), those attributes conferred a reproductive advantage. That toughness also served us well in agrarian and industrial pursuits.
Female attributes, on the other hand, particularly communication skills, separated us from other species, contributed to our survival, and allowed us to progress from generation to generation.
Male attributes aren't all bad and female attributes aren't all good. But it becomes increasingly obvious that female attributes are more useful in modern society. We're trying to learn them--especially the communication part--but our progress is spotty.
Please don't ask us to be too touchie-feelie. The world still needs tough people.
There's no denying that men are more prone to violence and crime. When humans roamed the earth raping and pillaging (which was relatively recently), those attributes conferred a reproductive advantage. That toughness also served us well in agrarian and industrial pursuits.
Female attributes, on the other hand, particularly communication skills, separated us from other species, contributed to our survival, and allowed us to progress from generation to generation.
Male attributes aren't all bad and female attributes aren't all good. But it becomes increasingly obvious that female attributes are more useful in modern society. We're trying to learn them--especially the communication part--but our progress is spotty.
Please don't ask us to be too touchie-feelie. The world still needs tough people.
4
YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND The title of Deborah Tannen's superb study of gender and speech styles, can contribute important information to this conversation. Tannen writes that women, in general, communicate with the purpose of asking the question, Do you like me yet? While men, in general, communicate with the purpose of asking the question, Have I won yet? Women's priorities are typically networking and creating trust and intimacy. By contract, men's priorities are typically competition, individualism and winning. While women and men may believe that they are both speaking the same language (in this case English), their metamessages are completely different. Their ways of framing conversations are based upon distinct and divergent perspectives, priorities and beliefs. The situation is very hopeful, as humans have the capacity to learn new constructions in their native language rapidly and accurately. The writer here ends the piece with an example of switching styles, where she, as the woman, wins a point, while her male student becomes more emotionally open and vulnerable. Such style switching is natural in all languages. Focusing on the components of gender styles in conversation can be very productive and interesting, where women learn to understand and speak in a typically masculine style while men learn to speak in a typically feminine style, for the purpose of creating deeper understanding that they can use in personal relationships and communication.
3
Here it is in a nutshelI….down these mean streets
a man must go who is not himself mean,
who is neither tarnished nor afraid.
He is the hero; he is everything.
He must be a complete man and a common man and yet an
unusual man.
He must be to use a rather weathered phrase, a man of honor,
by instinct, by inevitability, without thought of it
and certainly without saying it.
He must be the best man in his world
and a good enough man for any world.
if he is a man of honor in one
thing, he is that in all things
He is a common man or he could not go among common people.
He has a sense of character, or he would not know his job.
He will take no mans money dishonestly and no man’s insolence
without a due and dispassionate revenge.
He is a lonely man and his pride is that you will treat him as a
proud man or be very sorry you ever saw him.
He talks as the man of his age talks, that is, with rude wit,
a lively sense of the grotesque, a disgust for sham
and a contempt for pettiness.
The story is his adventure in search of a hidden truth
and it would be no adventure if it did not happen to a man fit for
adventure.
He has a range of awareness that startles you, but it belongs to
him by right, because it belongs to the world he lives in.
If there were enough like him, I think the world would be a
very safe place to live in-
-and yet not too dull to be worth living in.
- Raymond Chandler on Marlowe
a man must go who is not himself mean,
who is neither tarnished nor afraid.
He is the hero; he is everything.
He must be a complete man and a common man and yet an
unusual man.
He must be to use a rather weathered phrase, a man of honor,
by instinct, by inevitability, without thought of it
and certainly without saying it.
He must be the best man in his world
and a good enough man for any world.
if he is a man of honor in one
thing, he is that in all things
He is a common man or he could not go among common people.
He has a sense of character, or he would not know his job.
He will take no mans money dishonestly and no man’s insolence
without a due and dispassionate revenge.
He is a lonely man and his pride is that you will treat him as a
proud man or be very sorry you ever saw him.
He talks as the man of his age talks, that is, with rude wit,
a lively sense of the grotesque, a disgust for sham
and a contempt for pettiness.
The story is his adventure in search of a hidden truth
and it would be no adventure if it did not happen to a man fit for
adventure.
He has a range of awareness that startles you, but it belongs to
him by right, because it belongs to the world he lives in.
If there were enough like him, I think the world would be a
very safe place to live in-
-and yet not too dull to be worth living in.
- Raymond Chandler on Marlowe
3
I love this article! It's timely, and hits very close to the mark on a key issue faced by many North American (and I assume other) men, that of equating the masculine with lack of emotion. After spending my early 20s working in various post psychiatric group homes, and noting the very different coping strategies of the men and women in those homes, I stumbled across Herb Goldberg's incredible book, The Hazards of Being Male: Surviving the Myth of Masculine Privilege, published in 1975. It was truly eye opening, and detailed how young men are raised to be society's cannon fodder, ready for war or the battles of corporate world, without complaint. In recent years, I've thought that Goldberg's seminal book on the flawed male condition needed to be dusted off and made required reading by everyone, man, woman and child. In many respects, Andrew's article does exactly that, hitting on many of the same themes, but with a modern twist.
Well done Andrew.
Well done Andrew.
5
It's fine to be an emotive male, but who, really, wants to see a man expressing pain, grief, sadness, disappointment, anger? When I need to express pain and sadness, I have no trouble doing it, but I do it in private -- out of respect for others (excepting funerals). No, I'm not horrifically insensitive or desensitized. Just able to tolerate pain while feeling it and still manage to smile as a small contribution to the general morale. Alas, most people and the universe are indifferent to our suffering. Stiff upper lip!
3
So sorry you are not able to share your self with others you love.
Do you find it at all odd that a large number of women in this comment thread are saying "Yes, we do want communicative men" and the men are responding "I WON'T DO IT!"
1
Men and women seem to compliment each other (Yin & Yang). As a woman, I personally really enjoy men as they are. There are messed up individuals of both genders but there is no compelling, definitive evidence that gender roles/expectations assigned to either sex are the cause. And these inclinations are not purely socialization. As another reader stated earlier, there are chemical/hormonal/biological influences at play as well. Nature and nurture work together in sex differences, as in all things.
9
There isn't a boy on Earth who doesn't cry.
The definition of "emotional honesty" in this article is intellectually dishonest, because it conflates 'honesty' with "sensitivity."
Being taught to control your emotions is good, being ruled by your emotions is bad.
The definition of "emotional honesty" in this article is intellectually dishonest, because it conflates 'honesty' with "sensitivity."
Being taught to control your emotions is good, being ruled by your emotions is bad.
6
I think you are missing the point. Expressing your emotions does not equal being ruled by them; and the primary point is that men do not have the deeply emotional relationships, relative to women, that allow them to express their real feelings and work through them, the way that women usually do.
8
There is not a person alive who describes themselves as 'sensitive' who is sensitive to any emotions but their own.
8
Thank you Andrew Reiner. As an Emotionally Focused Therapist who works with couples and adults, I have a front row seat for the relationship wreakage created by men and women that are bound to the cultural stereotype of the dominant patriarchy, and the socially learned behavior of male suppression of vulnerable emotion. Writers like yourself, academics and psychologists, and psychotherapist are now awakening to the troubling cultural effects of cutting boys off their biological ability to be emotionally awareness, present, honest and vulnerable. We as a culture have an enormous opportunity in a paradigm shift toward male emotional maturity. This shift has the potential of changing all institutions it touches. Thank you Andrew for another great volley across the bow of the dominant patriarchy and its dying efforts to uphold the "tough guy," stereotype. The world will be a much safer place when male emotional honesty is the norm. We are without doubt a long way off, but the growing efforts that you describe are so welcomed and desperately needed. This effort will inform our next evolutionary step.
7
I'm probably missing a definition somewhere. My experience is that men are much more vulnerable to their emotions than women. Except for rejection as a loss of power, women tend to be cold, calculating and unemotional. The smiles and loud gregariousness are put ons. You never see a women in public overcome by emotion. It is far more typical in men. It is how men are driven. By their emotions: fear in particular. Through our mothers, we learn that the most potent source of that fear is women. Lord Macbeth may have been the agent of the murders, but it was Lady Macbeth that threatened his emasculation as motivation.
9
I'd be genuinely curious to see how one of these courses went. From my own, obviously limited, experience, men who are not in touch with their feelings would treat speaking about them, especially with other men around, like a colossal show of weakness, because it's what women do, and that is a fate worse than death.
1
From your own, extensive, experience... would you say women are honest with their emotions? Would you say women look for emotional weaknesses in men?
4
The definition of "emotional honesty" in this article is intellectually dishonest, because it conflates 'honesty' with "sensitivity."
The writing implies, through p.o.v. prose, that women are, by default 'honest'.
The writing implies, through p.o.v. prose, that women are, by default 'honest'.
5
This article assumes the school system is gender objective; it is not. Girls do well because the are diligent, organized, and they follow rules. These qualities are highly prized in the classroom today. Boys, on the other hand, are curious, questioning, and strong willed, and none of these qualities are valorized in schools today. My speaking very generally here -- boys are interested, but they won't work; girls will work, but they don't really care what they're learning.
9
If you are weak and can't make it in the world of men, which is your place in this world, then you will not be able to have sex with women then you will not reproduce then your genes will die and the genes of men who are not weak will live.
Being strong is as important to men and being pretty is to women. This is biology. It will never change.
Being strong is as important to men and being pretty is to women. This is biology. It will never change.
6
what a sad deterministic world that is. there are many ways to be strong and many ways to be beautiful.
6
How is the world of men my place in the world?
Come on guys, let your emotions show...then wait for your women to tell you "you shouldn't feel that way." It should take about 3 seconds..
11
It should take me about 3 seconds? If I never say that to my husband, what's wrong with me, Gregory?
3
Hey Gregory you tell a very sad story in a very few words.
5
You must realize Gregory, women aren't demanding men be honest with themselves, because that is an individual notion that cannot be generalized. One man's honesty with himself doesn't look like the next.
These comments are coming from women who don't realize the part they play in why men hide that honesty from them. They think it is what causes the anger, but the anger is just the parts they can't control or hide.
These comments are coming from women who don't realize the part they play in why men hide that honesty from them. They think it is what causes the anger, but the anger is just the parts they can't control or hide.
2
This is directly related to the human power drive: the need for capability, control, status, dominance.
The semi-zombie patriarchal cultural program is to maintain men's dominance over women so there will be more children so the king and the priests will have more people to lord over and fight wars with. "Semi-zombie" because while "kings" have been unable to maintain high birth rates the "priests" are still obsessed with controlling women's sexuality.
In order for men to dominate women they need to repress their own feelings so that they 1) disregard feelings in general (and/or transform all feelings into anger or exhilaration), 2) don't listen to women (who use lots of feeling-based expression), and 3) repress women's self-expression through all the ways that are at last being talked about more now ("smile more",
"don't be so pushy") and of course physical violence and threats thereof.
The power drive not going to go away. People need to have power in order to manage their lives, and groups need some kind of leadership. However, the power drive can be much better moderated, through social awareness and intelligence.
That's only going to happen when people stop being so fascinated and indignant about the *effects* of the power drive (essentially every "ism" you can name), and start focusing on the actual *nature* of the power drive: the basic, intense, and highly variable human psychological need for capability, control, status and dominance.
The semi-zombie patriarchal cultural program is to maintain men's dominance over women so there will be more children so the king and the priests will have more people to lord over and fight wars with. "Semi-zombie" because while "kings" have been unable to maintain high birth rates the "priests" are still obsessed with controlling women's sexuality.
In order for men to dominate women they need to repress their own feelings so that they 1) disregard feelings in general (and/or transform all feelings into anger or exhilaration), 2) don't listen to women (who use lots of feeling-based expression), and 3) repress women's self-expression through all the ways that are at last being talked about more now ("smile more",
"don't be so pushy") and of course physical violence and threats thereof.
The power drive not going to go away. People need to have power in order to manage their lives, and groups need some kind of leadership. However, the power drive can be much better moderated, through social awareness and intelligence.
That's only going to happen when people stop being so fascinated and indignant about the *effects* of the power drive (essentially every "ism" you can name), and start focusing on the actual *nature* of the power drive: the basic, intense, and highly variable human psychological need for capability, control, status and dominance.
3
spot on and can get multilayered too quick. seems to me its important to separate challengers men face and changes men need to make. For example, hooking up must be talked about clearly in the context of consensual sex and safe sex. Once those two areas are improved, I'm good for now. Regarding men's lack of feeling in general and lack luster relationships as well as trying to fit their families image of a man - lot of work is needed. It is Men's Work..plug for Mr. Kimmel whose work made a huge impact on me in 1990. SImple lessons about living outside the box of what society teaches us and simultaneously teaches alternatives to Anger, Rage, and Violence will curb a lot...and people will generally be happier and most import safer.
4
So men used to out-perform women in education and men used to be 'tough'.
That suggests the cause of current under-performance may be the continual effort to change men into something more feminine.
How you conclude the opposite is a mystery to me.
That suggests the cause of current under-performance may be the continual effort to change men into something more feminine.
How you conclude the opposite is a mystery to me.
3
Goodness! Are women any more emotionally honest? They are not: it is a different kind of obfuscation, but obfuscation it nonetheless is.
5
Is makeup honest? Are breast implants honest? Is liposuction and anorexia honest? Is infanticide honest? Are shopping addictions, and alcohol abuse honest? The idea that women are perfect bastions of emotional honesty, and process their emotions in completely healthy and non destructive ways is laughable.
Because boys not crying when they go to the hospital is the one and true way to determine emotional honesty.
Because boys not crying when they go to the hospital is the one and true way to determine emotional honesty.
2
Sigh - oh, yes, women, so sly and deceitful. So devious and manipulative...
Should I even bother explaining that the article is talking about recognizing your own emotions? Nah - I'll just fake cry over here to try and make you feel bad. Like women do.
Should I even bother explaining that the article is talking about recognizing your own emotions? Nah - I'll just fake cry over here to try and make you feel bad. Like women do.
1
My husband was "raised" by various football coaches in junior high, high school, and college in the '50's and '60's due to his parent's divorce and his father's absence. Apparently in those days, football coaches stressed "be a man", "don't be a sissy", etc. Acknowledging pain, even injury, was a character defect to be avoided at all costs.
As a result, now at age 71, if he acknowledges the pain of arthritis or debilitation as a result of all those years of football, he is ashamed. This is what men have done to themselves, and to each other, in denying their humanity openly and honestly. I hurt for him, and for the boy / young man he was who was abused this way.
As a result, now at age 71, if he acknowledges the pain of arthritis or debilitation as a result of all those years of football, he is ashamed. This is what men have done to themselves, and to each other, in denying their humanity openly and honestly. I hurt for him, and for the boy / young man he was who was abused this way.
10
The construct of hypermasculinity is used incorrectly here. Traits of hypermasculinity do not include feelings of isolation (depression) or notoriety (narcissism). Mosher and Sirkin (1984) defined hypermasculinity as having calloused sex attitudes toward women, a conception of violence as manly, and a view of danger as exciting.
Good article overall though.
Good article overall though.
3
I wish girls were taught to be emotionally honest instead of emotionally manipulative. I wish girls were taught not to trick/seduce boys into giving the girls all the boys' possessions. I wish the media gave fair blame to all genders - 49% of blame to men and 51% to women, adjusted slightly for transgender factors.
18
I appreciate this article and comments for provoking me to think and try to look at this from different angles. One of my initial thoughts was that this is also why more often men act belligerently or even violently toward ex-partners (at least I think that's statistically true). Then I had to think about the roles of mothers raising boys (being one of them). Then the culture overall. Think of "To Kill a Mockingbird". How many men today would express admiration of Atticus Finch? Or Jesus for that matter.
1
Together my husband and I raised two little boys who have grown up to become thoughtful, admirable men. I'm the only gal in the house, am comfortable, not complaining. Our boys (men?) now live far away, in big cities. OK. I'm waitin' for grandchildren.
Yet I do have a sorta old-feminist question about this analysis.
If girls are more committed to their own educations, and they work harder throughout their years of schooling, and achieve higher grades, why do they earn 80 cents on the dollar, compared to boys, when they start to work? Why does my son report that his partner (female) sometimes cries at work because her boss ignores her and turns, instead, to consult the perky, aggressive guy at the next desk?
Maybe young men quietly know they don't have to work too hard in high school since they will soon enter a world tooled to respect and reward them.
Yet I do have a sorta old-feminist question about this analysis.
If girls are more committed to their own educations, and they work harder throughout their years of schooling, and achieve higher grades, why do they earn 80 cents on the dollar, compared to boys, when they start to work? Why does my son report that his partner (female) sometimes cries at work because her boss ignores her and turns, instead, to consult the perky, aggressive guy at the next desk?
Maybe young men quietly know they don't have to work too hard in high school since they will soon enter a world tooled to respect and reward them.
63
Why is your son's girlfriend so passive as to sit there and take it? Also the 80 cent thing has been disproven many times over when other variables are factored in.
5
Why would anyone, male or female, cry at work?
That alone puts you out of the running for promotions and positions of leadership, as it means you have not learned to control and productively channel your emotions.
That alone puts you out of the running for promotions and positions of leadership, as it means you have not learned to control and productively channel your emotions.
3
Thanks so much for the advice.
And I'm so happy to know that you understand what behaviors would qualify a person for promotion.
Tough skin? Lotsa attitude? A cocky walk? Suit and tie, or well-chosen T-shirt?
This woman is not seeking a position of leadership.
She is seeking a position in which her many contributions to the company are acknowledged and rewarded.
Be a woman for a few days, sweetie. Just try it. See how you feel.
And I'm so happy to know that you understand what behaviors would qualify a person for promotion.
Tough skin? Lotsa attitude? A cocky walk? Suit and tie, or well-chosen T-shirt?
This woman is not seeking a position of leadership.
She is seeking a position in which her many contributions to the company are acknowledged and rewarded.
Be a woman for a few days, sweetie. Just try it. See how you feel.
3
As a male I find I'm happier around other males.
Perhaps men and women are meant to come together to reproduce / ensure offspring survive and not much else. We can spin circles around why and how but perhaps we are running up against however many millions of years of evolution.
Perhaps men and women are meant to come together to reproduce / ensure offspring survive and not much else. We can spin circles around why and how but perhaps we are running up against however many millions of years of evolution.
1
Read the short story titled 'Indian Camp' by Ernest Hemingway to witness and mull over the emotional contours of masculinity -- the good, the bad, and the ugly.
1
See also "Soldier's Home" ... if you want to read a really, really mean Hemingway portrayal of a mother.
When I was growing up, my father, two uncles, and two grandfathers, thus the adult males in my life, had almost zero input into my social, emotional and psychological development. It was the same for all my peers, many of whom were raised by single mothers, and rarely saw their fathers, if ever, after their parents had divorced.
It was the older females in our lives who insisted that we had to adopt the many virtues of physical courage, self-control, forbearance, grit, and, above all else, the willingness to put aside completely our own dreams and desires, in order that we should become useful economic members of society, who would dutifully go to work even it was a job we hated, get married and raise a family.
All these women were women who had mostly never worked, who therefore looked to men for their own financial and emotional security. Is it any surprise that they wanted us to carry on the same tradition of the masculine provider who at all times put his womenfolk first?
It was the older females in our lives who insisted that we had to adopt the many virtues of physical courage, self-control, forbearance, grit, and, above all else, the willingness to put aside completely our own dreams and desires, in order that we should become useful economic members of society, who would dutifully go to work even it was a job we hated, get married and raise a family.
All these women were women who had mostly never worked, who therefore looked to men for their own financial and emotional security. Is it any surprise that they wanted us to carry on the same tradition of the masculine provider who at all times put his womenfolk first?
11
So rather than deal with the educational disparity, you focus on emotions? Good luck in your search!
4
I hope Andrew Reiner's work inspires a surge of masculinity courses at colleges and universities all across the country. Boys endure an onslaught of messaging that fuels feelings of inadequacy. By first grade, the message is clear to boys that crying is not ok. The bulk of messages about what it means to be a man reach them online, unseen by the adults in their lives. There are no adults on duty on social media. Being engaged on multiple platforms magnifies boys' vulnerability to the expectations perpetuated by our culture and enforced by peers. Being discouraged from expressing a full range of emotions makes it challenging for boys to navigate their social and sexual lives as they reach their teens and adulthood. High risk drinking, depression, sexual harassment (online and off), higher rates of suicide are directly related to how they are socialized. As a college and high school speaker, I hear this over and over directly from boys in one-on-one conversations and sometimes in a whole group. They are desperate for support, guidance and perspective. Reiner, along with other great professors like Mark Tappan at Colby College are showing us how we can help boys and men. Andrew Reiner offers a wake up call: "Wouldn’t encouraging men to embrace the full range of their humanity benefit women? Why do we continue to limit the emotional lives of males when it serves no one?" - Cindy Pierce, author of Sexploitation: Helping Kids Develop Healthy Sexuality in a Porn-Driven World
5
I don't want men being the emotional cripples that many women are. I'm sick of women breaking down in meetings and crying. Lets let men be men.
17
I have gone to workplace meetings for over thirty years and have never once seen a woman break down and cry. What kind of toxic workplace do you endure, Jane?
7
But what the author is saying is that "men being men" isn't a natural or biological impulse but rather is the result of years of socialization to make men less emotive. "Men being men" is a product of a social system that shames men for expressing emotions like sadness or anxiety, and insists that they re-channel these emotions as anger.
Why does expressing sadness make you a cripple, but repressing your emotions does not?
Why does expressing sadness make you a cripple, but repressing your emotions does not?
8
Being in control of your emotions is not a biological impluse. Not teaching boys to be in control of their emotions is poisonous. A man is in control of his impulses and emotions.
3
As a (Trans)woman I have an interesting perspective on this. Men are emotionally castrated. I used to be like them. I'd turn all my feelings into anger or impulsive recklessness. I became a drug addict and almost killed myself because I couldn't connect to my emotions. It took years longer than it should have, but finally I tranistioned.
About a year after I tranistioned, I realized how much happier I was and we'll rounded emotionally. Crying was like the best thing that ever happened to me. I felt connected to other women in ways that I never felt once with a man. It was liberating and beautiful. I felt gratitude, which I now know is the key to happiness, for the first time.
I played video games, redirected my emotions, and acted tough, but it wasn't worth it. I get so much more now out of being honest and open with myself and others.
About a year after I tranistioned, I realized how much happier I was and we'll rounded emotionally. Crying was like the best thing that ever happened to me. I felt connected to other women in ways that I never felt once with a man. It was liberating and beautiful. I felt gratitude, which I now know is the key to happiness, for the first time.
I played video games, redirected my emotions, and acted tough, but it wasn't worth it. I get so much more now out of being honest and open with myself and others.
11
Interesting piece. What's omitted is men in war. How many photos have we seen of men cradling a wounded comrade in their arms, some crying over the loss of a friend? Or how many times have we seen and heard warriors who have recovered from their wounds, such as loss of their legs and the need to wear prosthetics, who insist on returning to their combat units because they don't want to leave their comrades behind? Are these young men not casting aside their expected ultra-masculine roles and returning to their basic selves?
27
How sad it is that the war field is the only place we freely allow these expressions from me. How sad it is that these men return to civilian lives where these expressions are not supported in civilian context.
We have failed our vets, returning from war traumatized, they're left to fend for themselves as civilians can't relate and they are denied adequate health care.
Is it no wonder that the only successful aide seems to be vets helping vets? Is it any wonder that male vets are now working with male inner city youth to combat the effects of trauma?
We have failed our vets, returning from war traumatized, they're left to fend for themselves as civilians can't relate and they are denied adequate health care.
Is it no wonder that the only successful aide seems to be vets helping vets? Is it any wonder that male vets are now working with male inner city youth to combat the effects of trauma?
3
Reading the comments makes me wonder how some of these people got this far in life... so many misconceptions, stereotypes and even denial.
Perhaps this is reflected in how much we medicate ourselves as a society (pills, drugs, alcohol, etc) in an attempt to escape our (inner) lives.
What many of the comments fail to reflect is any sort of compassionate heart.
Perhaps this is reflected in how much we medicate ourselves as a society (pills, drugs, alcohol, etc) in an attempt to escape our (inner) lives.
What many of the comments fail to reflect is any sort of compassionate heart.
8
Yada, yada, yada! Let's face it, today males are considered expendables who are tolerated merely for reproduction. In a society that worships the concept of women and children first to be protected, nurtured, and supported; is there any wonder why males emotionally disconnect?
Feminists revel in their ability to dispense with males until they seek to fulfill their maternal instincts! Seeking the financial security of marriage, pregnant females quickly discard their "husbands" to build a lifelong loving relationship with their offspring to the detriment of their relationship with their spouse.
Then it these same feminist's favorable parenting to their daughters while forcing their sons into the male stereotypical role devoid of emotions, compassion, and sense of self. Raised by maternal edict, males then suffer Feminism's slings and arrows for the balance of their lives wondering what women really want.
Now society wonders why men are the way we are! Our mothers made us this way and demanded our father's complied with their feminist parenting philosophy.
Feminists revel in their ability to dispense with males until they seek to fulfill their maternal instincts! Seeking the financial security of marriage, pregnant females quickly discard their "husbands" to build a lifelong loving relationship with their offspring to the detriment of their relationship with their spouse.
Then it these same feminist's favorable parenting to their daughters while forcing their sons into the male stereotypical role devoid of emotions, compassion, and sense of self. Raised by maternal edict, males then suffer Feminism's slings and arrows for the balance of their lives wondering what women really want.
Now society wonders why men are the way we are! Our mothers made us this way and demanded our father's complied with their feminist parenting philosophy.
15
Well put. With the divorce rate over 50%, in our inner city (Boston) community, more than 75% children were born WITHOUT a father. Massachusetts is the state that child support is just a formula 33% of the father's income goes to the first child so forth. I have met many boys growing up WITHOUT much of male influence. These boys will either get a part time dad (30% time with no custodial parent) or no dad at all.
So why do you think our young men have all these problems? Who can they look for as male model?
So why do you think our young men have all these problems? Who can they look for as male model?
5
"I'm my mommy's fault". So, I guess 'personal responsibility' is only for girls.
1
The story about the toddler screaming "I'm a man!" says so much about the way we teach our children to relate to their feelings, which is a reflection of the way we ourselves relate to our inner world. The tendency is to tell them not to cry because it makes us uncomfortable to sit through the full range of our own emotions. An alternative approach is to hold their hand (which the father in the story starts off doing, before telling him not to cry) and to tell them that you are right there with them and that it's OK to cry, because it (the vaccination, in this case) is only going to last for a minute. It's so simple, and it's extremely powerful. You create a space for the child's emotion, and the child learns how to internalize that space within himself.
9
Teaching any child to be brave is a good thing. I went through the same scene with my daughter when she got vaccinated. Are the words, "be a man" the real problem with the anecdote? Sounds like another example of political correctness gone amok. Expressing motions can be a good thing, but being able to control emotions is a necessary skill for everyone.
5
Indeed. Emotions come to all of us usually unbidden. It is ok to have them. They come and they pass. At the same time, that emotion does not have to determine action, especially if that action is harmful. I am reminded of when my sons were young and sometimes scared to go to their room alone. I learned not to say "don't be afraid; there is nothing to be afraid of". Instead I told them it's ok to be afraid, but maybe you can do it anyway. I'll help you. Real courage is not absence of fear because if you're not afraid, then you don't need courage.
9
David, the problem with the anecdote is that the toddler was trained to channel his fear and pain into anger. It's not at all the same as saying "this hurts but I'm going to suck it up and try not to cry."
1
Another article that enforces differences between humans--not similarities. Who cares if it is a man or a woman or trans or pans or whomever? The goal should be for all of humankind to be emotionally honest period. This constant need for codification is still imposed at birth--why be so boring? Individuality and culture are important, but every human finds their own way and purpose, how about letting them do that instead of trying to do it for them? We all have had our shot to improve our own lives--and hopefully others, but you've had your chance and why not just be humanists and live and let live?
3
You have not been to university recently. The most important thing about you is your Race, or gender, or sexuality, or your belonging to an aggrieved or privileged group of some sort. Your universalist and humanist thinking is morally and politically wrong and papers over the both the essential differences among us and the inequalities to which the Right Thinking People (professors) have solutions. Please report to class.
8
This is a great article, and the beginning of an important discussion. I also notice that, as much as women are told that they can show a range of emotions, the reality is that they also cannot. I know many women who are angry, really angry, but chose to show that emotion as sadness, because their anger can invites ridicule, dismissiveness, and violence. Giving space for men to show their emotions helps everyone, including women.
10
I've always believed that depression is anger turned inward.
7
This is one reason I have never dated American men. They are out of touch with their feelings. Brazilian men (and I'm sure they're not the only example) are raised in an emotionally connected and affectionate culture. They know when they are happy or sad; they cry, they laugh, they shout, they hug. And so I am raising my son here.
9
In my private thoughts, after many fruitless discussions with a male, and now in public, I have described men I have known and tried to honestly engage with...father, boyfriends, husbands...as emotional cowards. Skipping around the real issue, their anger and inability to directly address emotions and problems, comes out as passive aggressive sulking, back stabs much later in time, and either out and out yelling or what I call jumping out of the corner and biting like a small dog. This is baffling and frustrating. Attempts to address even the behavior, much less the real issue, are pointless. I walk away and so, who wins? No one.
3
Your attitude is no help and your anger towards men is palpable... I grew up in a male dominated family, currently work in a high functioning male dominated job and have two collage -aged sons. I find many women in high power positions to be more difficult than any alpha male --being around men my entire life I have put a lot of effort into learning how to communicate and work with them --I honestly feel sorry for the man of today --battered about by feminists and the media --
9
Yep. Don't like men much in this regard: emotional courage; however, my son is so much easier to deal with than my daughters. I am just one woman/mother in an ocean of people and opinions. Nope, I don't intend my attitude to be helpful. It has simply been my experience. And I sure don't feel a bit sorry for men.
Its hard to believe that this professor thinks that using the derogatory term "metrosexual" is an advance in the state of masculinity. Take a man who needs a pedicure and gets a pedicure. Now put a label on it that is derisory. Why shouldn't we come up with negative terms for women who, for instance, wear pants or cut their hair short? The very usage of this term points to a shaky foundation and a perspective that is suspect. What about the continual promotion of this person's own credentials and mention of his "seminar"?
What I never hear acknowledged in these kinds of academic examinations is that men have special burdens. Men can be conscripted into warfare at a moment's notice. They can also find themselves in the burden of lifetime alimony in some states, and some states routinely put men in debtor's prisons -- a 19th century practice that has been revived. Why does no one address these issues? How can gender pay be equal when men can be locked into a lifetime of alimony if their spouse commits adultery and ruins their union? And our journalist gatekeepers have a ridiculing approach to men's stepping outside of sexual norms by concocting all manner of idiocy such as "man-purse", "man-cation" "man-cave" and "bro code", among many others.
For this writer, men who feel threatened are "thin-skinned" and "quavering". Imagine describing a female in this derogatory way. This is a sad approach for someone who purports to display compassion and understanding.
What I never hear acknowledged in these kinds of academic examinations is that men have special burdens. Men can be conscripted into warfare at a moment's notice. They can also find themselves in the burden of lifetime alimony in some states, and some states routinely put men in debtor's prisons -- a 19th century practice that has been revived. Why does no one address these issues? How can gender pay be equal when men can be locked into a lifetime of alimony if their spouse commits adultery and ruins their union? And our journalist gatekeepers have a ridiculing approach to men's stepping outside of sexual norms by concocting all manner of idiocy such as "man-purse", "man-cation" "man-cave" and "bro code", among many others.
For this writer, men who feel threatened are "thin-skinned" and "quavering". Imagine describing a female in this derogatory way. This is a sad approach for someone who purports to display compassion and understanding.
11
"Why shouldn't we come up with negative terms for women who, for instance, wear pants or cut their hair short?"
Butch? Bluestocking? Mannish? Have you seriously never heard such terms?
Butch? Bluestocking? Mannish? Have you seriously never heard such terms?
5
Pantsuits! Himicanes! Tomboys!
“Why do you think a few young women stopped to see if your female friend was O.K.,” I asked him, “but no one did the same thing for you?”
Wow. What a powerful teachable moment! Do any other readers think it equally important that women confront such questions in a class together with men? This wonderful article points to a too rare case in which a university professor is actually working to educate to promote thinking instead of promoting stereotypes. Very inspirational.
Wow. What a powerful teachable moment! Do any other readers think it equally important that women confront such questions in a class together with men? This wonderful article points to a too rare case in which a university professor is actually working to educate to promote thinking instead of promoting stereotypes. Very inspirational.
9
So interesting. I was talking to a friend last night about why men who divorce seem to immediately remarry. We speculated that men need wives more as its their primary emotional relationship whereas women have many intimate friends. Interesting to see some of the research around this. I often think men are deep down more vulnerable than women are.
8
You're making the mistake of thinking men have the exact same needs as women. We don't. I don't know a single straight man who has a need to have multiple close emotional bonds. One or two, sure. We are different.
6
You both can only truly speak to what you think as individuals, you both have no more clue about anyone else--regardless of sexuality or sexual preference--or anything--any more than I can, or could, speak to your needs. Why is this such a challenging concept for humans to grasp?
1
I didn't say men needed more bonds than they have. I said because men's primary emotional bond tends to be with their wives, they tend to remarry after divorce. That's a very different point to the one you are accusing me of making.
3
People should be careful what they wish for. The assumption the primary emotions men are suppressing are feelings of vulnerability and weakness and that the solution is for men to deal with this in more socially feminine ways may be attractive within contexts where feminism is the reigning orthodoxy and women outnumber men 4 to 1. However, the reality of men's emotions is typically far more threatening, messy, and unwelcome.
The assumption the greatest psychic toll upon men comes from suppression of vulnerability doesn't resonate with my experience, nor with that of many men I talk to. Suppression of a testosterone-fuelled will to dominance, of lust, and of rage are far more dominating features of our existence. I don't doubt for a moment that many men experience things differently, but I would love to see more being said about the fact that male emotions, desires, and urges are not safe and need to be sublimated somehow for the good of society. The countries with the lowest male suicide rate are typically those where 'toxic' masculinity is *given fuller rein*.
Feminism rather likes to ridicule or stigmatize male emotions that it dislikes—'male tears', etc. Most men know that women are swiftly turned off by a man that frequently cries tears of impotence or vulnerability. We know that our dark emotions aren't welcome. The result is a rather narrow window of accepted emotional expression for men, rather than true grappling with their uncomfortable reality in its full breadth.
The assumption the greatest psychic toll upon men comes from suppression of vulnerability doesn't resonate with my experience, nor with that of many men I talk to. Suppression of a testosterone-fuelled will to dominance, of lust, and of rage are far more dominating features of our existence. I don't doubt for a moment that many men experience things differently, but I would love to see more being said about the fact that male emotions, desires, and urges are not safe and need to be sublimated somehow for the good of society. The countries with the lowest male suicide rate are typically those where 'toxic' masculinity is *given fuller rein*.
Feminism rather likes to ridicule or stigmatize male emotions that it dislikes—'male tears', etc. Most men know that women are swiftly turned off by a man that frequently cries tears of impotence or vulnerability. We know that our dark emotions aren't welcome. The result is a rather narrow window of accepted emotional expression for men, rather than true grappling with their uncomfortable reality in its full breadth.
20
"Most men know that women are swiftly turned off by a man that frequently cries tears of impotence or vulnerability."
What do you think happens to women who frequently cry tears of impotence or vulnerability?
What do you think happens to women who frequently cry tears of impotence or vulnerability?
2
I agree with you. Stronger, more 'violent' emotions are very much part of all human nature, and can't necessarily be socialized or taught to control. They are there for good reason, but when used to inflict pain are of course unwelcome. Women fear expressing rage and power too but are allowed to try it all.
I don't think that's true. I love men who can express and connect to their emotion. I think it's the most important quality for a man to have. I would say that women who find this unattractive are buying into those same stereotypes of masculinity we should dispel.
6
It's complicated. Boys do indeed learn to squelch emotional displays, anger permitted, and there is a cost. But there is also a cost if they don't stuff it, if they gush and show vulnerability. And that cost is the disfavor of many a woman who would say she appreciates an emotionally expressive man--not untrue---but, truth told, she is turned off, not sexually attracted, to emotional men. It's adaptive, for attraction and reproduction, for men to blunt themselves emotionally. I know this is not PC, but it's true.
6
Fortunately, between the extremes of squelching emotional displays except anger, and gushing and showing weakness, there is an entire middle ground of seeking to understand one's feelings and find an acceptable way to express them or hold them in check as appropriate. I think that's all we're asking.
7
I quite agree. The integration of emotion within a masculine identity is optimal. As a therapist I teach men to create that integration. It's a worthwhile project and men must help one another more than borrow from the examples of women.
What the professor doesn't ask is what has changed. He obviously has an agenda to socialize men to fit a world in which he fits. How does the female emotional model work for men in a variety of jobs and roles, when they marry or raise children or get old? Just because our society has appeared to change since the 1970's doesn't mean the current state of affairs is permanent - or even desirable for children, women and men. Look at Turkey or Germany, for examples. The researcher's a priori assumptions about the moral rectitude of his worldview and the crusade he is leading to change young men should give us pause in accepting these conclusions.
8
Thanks. This is a critical issue. What it means to be a "good man" or a "good woman" is a question of value, not of law and not something can be discovered through scientific investigation. The values at play come from a number of cultural and historical sources and are adapted to the biology that evolution has handed us. The professors are not experts in selecting these values and putting them into hierarchies, although they don't hesitate to do so to fit their needs and interests.
Women's studies departments have always been motivated by a social and political agenda--earlier, more of a rights agenda. As they grew in institutional power and funding, they developed a much larger cultural agenda and now claim expertise on matters of value--and have no reluctance to further their cultural agenda through universities and "education."
Men's studies are in some ways a development out of a feminism-based women's and gender studies movement and in some ways a reaction to it. However, it faces the same problems. It is a value system masquerading as social science. It furthers certain values and a cultural agenda, just like the early phase of women's studies. And it plays by the rules of the university. Agitate for institutional recognition. Get your funding. Get a program or a department or some way to institutionalize your revenue and your power, and you are in the game of "research" and "education" where you can pursue your cultural agenda.
Women's studies departments have always been motivated by a social and political agenda--earlier, more of a rights agenda. As they grew in institutional power and funding, they developed a much larger cultural agenda and now claim expertise on matters of value--and have no reluctance to further their cultural agenda through universities and "education."
Men's studies are in some ways a development out of a feminism-based women's and gender studies movement and in some ways a reaction to it. However, it faces the same problems. It is a value system masquerading as social science. It furthers certain values and a cultural agenda, just like the early phase of women's studies. And it plays by the rules of the university. Agitate for institutional recognition. Get your funding. Get a program or a department or some way to institutionalize your revenue and your power, and you are in the game of "research" and "education" where you can pursue your cultural agenda.
3
I don't think he's trying to change men,he wants them to be more really who they are.
4
@ nancy: '...I don't think he's trying to change men,he wants them to be more really who they are...'
As long as it is just like women...
As long as it is just like women...
2
Great article! Thank you. It would be about time to have masculine studies and programs. Yes of course there is a definite huge problem with this society, which generation after generation, teaches boys not to cry, express feelings and pretend they have everything under control. And yes women would directly benefit from an opening of consciousness about that. In fact society as a whole would benefit from it.
4
Great article. But we need the education about emotions and strength and gentleness to begin in pre-school, and classes in gender roles are needed in high schools. Awareness needs to be cultivated in elementary school and parents might find parenting easier if they were given some pointers before the children are born.
There are differences between men and women physiologically. Check various studies. Men have more testosterone, feel far less pain than women, have more immediate physical strength. They experience a fight or flight response. Women endure pain longer (needed to get through childbirth) and respond to threats with a "tend and befriend" response. Of course, none of this is completely black or white. It's all a continuum of experience. But we are all wired to feel emotion and tap into our hearts. The greatest poetry, literature, government, music, and art solicits genuine human feeling, and so much of what we value as a civilization has been created by men and women who are in touch with themselves. A complete human being feels as well as thinks.
Considering what we are seeing in this election, perhaps the machismo is finally tapping out. How repugnant is Mr. Trump's misogyny, Mr. Cruz's professed love of guns? They are caricatures of men. Finally, we're addressing violence in sports. We've named "battle fatigue" for what it is. Maybe the time has come for men to become whole. That takes courage of the good kind.
There are differences between men and women physiologically. Check various studies. Men have more testosterone, feel far less pain than women, have more immediate physical strength. They experience a fight or flight response. Women endure pain longer (needed to get through childbirth) and respond to threats with a "tend and befriend" response. Of course, none of this is completely black or white. It's all a continuum of experience. But we are all wired to feel emotion and tap into our hearts. The greatest poetry, literature, government, music, and art solicits genuine human feeling, and so much of what we value as a civilization has been created by men and women who are in touch with themselves. A complete human being feels as well as thinks.
Considering what we are seeing in this election, perhaps the machismo is finally tapping out. How repugnant is Mr. Trump's misogyny, Mr. Cruz's professed love of guns? They are caricatures of men. Finally, we're addressing violence in sports. We've named "battle fatigue" for what it is. Maybe the time has come for men to become whole. That takes courage of the good kind.
2
You used a lot of words to say you think men should be more like women.
8
what? first off men have to learn how to identify emotions…most of the time we men don't know how we feel…our emotions have been so repressed we have lost touch with them. so before we can be honest with how we feel, we must be able to identify the feeling.
6
A connection may even exist between the American male's emotional ineptitude or anger and the current state of American politics. The hallmarks of the current Republican Party are anger (ex: Trumpism, blind obstructionism to the current President), a lack of empathy (ex: anti-abortion [as a failure to understand women's situation], disregard for the issue of poverty), and an aversion to critical thinking/education (ex: climate denialism, magical thinking economics). The article adeptly discusses all these psychological/social issues that run prevalent in American men. Therein lies a reason, among many, that American men skew Republican and there is a lack of female Republican politicians.
4
The benefit I see, as a man, in becoming more emotionally honest, is not just in letting out the sadness and anger, but being able to feel more love and beauty too. When I shutdown "bad" emotions, all feelings seem to diminish equally. But when I allow the emotions to roll on by, they make up for pain with deeper joy and happiness. It's hard work, but it's worth it.
67
Isn't the benefit the same for all humans? Why is sexuality such a big deal? You can be a feminist, a misogynist, an Olympic gymnast, or a whole sundry list of "ists", but why not just be a humanist?
2
Do you think this emotional benefit applies to all humans?
Awwwwww, ain't that just so touching. I actually agree with you, but that's not how men communicate it. And the emotion isn't any less real in consequence. Must we do it the female way to make it real. Really?
A few observations:
1. I have frequently heard men say things like "because I'm a man". It as if they are entirely defined by their sex. Women never speak that way. I do not feel defined at all by being a woman. I am ME - my sex is only one of my many characteristics.
2. I have also been told by men that that one way they define themselves is "to not be like women". I never really got that but it sounded a) silly and a waste of energy and 2) insulting to women!?
3. I just went to the ballet. There were many men there - gay men with other men and straight men with women. But no straight men with other men! The straight men with their wives seemed to be having a great time enjoying the performance so it is not as if straight men don't like the ballet. I was thinking that, for some reason, society has decreed that straight men shouldn't like the ballet and therefore men are afraid to go unless it is with a woman. Men are probably denying themselves many things in order to fit a stereotype. No wonder they are angry.
1. I have frequently heard men say things like "because I'm a man". It as if they are entirely defined by their sex. Women never speak that way. I do not feel defined at all by being a woman. I am ME - my sex is only one of my many characteristics.
2. I have also been told by men that that one way they define themselves is "to not be like women". I never really got that but it sounded a) silly and a waste of energy and 2) insulting to women!?
3. I just went to the ballet. There were many men there - gay men with other men and straight men with women. But no straight men with other men! The straight men with their wives seemed to be having a great time enjoying the performance so it is not as if straight men don't like the ballet. I was thinking that, for some reason, society has decreed that straight men shouldn't like the ballet and therefore men are afraid to go unless it is with a woman. Men are probably denying themselves many things in order to fit a stereotype. No wonder they are angry.
7
1. women talk worse than that.
2. makes no sense.
3. ballet is boring.
2. makes no sense.
3. ballet is boring.
7
Susie,
I completely agree with you. It is very hard to find any comment, where the person does not immediately go into a justification of why they do this and that as attributed solely on their sexuality. We just all have to label and codify everything--if anyone even reads my response, they most likely will be searching for clues to my sexuality--is my name masculine or feminine, maybe it is anagram or a false name? So now how do you tell? Am I black, white, checkered, gay, straight, crooked, even--and who really cares, if you do then the problem isn't me--it is with yourself. Why not be a humanist?
I completely agree with you. It is very hard to find any comment, where the person does not immediately go into a justification of why they do this and that as attributed solely on their sexuality. We just all have to label and codify everything--if anyone even reads my response, they most likely will be searching for clues to my sexuality--is my name masculine or feminine, maybe it is anagram or a false name? So now how do you tell? Am I black, white, checkered, gay, straight, crooked, even--and who really cares, if you do then the problem isn't me--it is with yourself. Why not be a humanist?
2
I'd like to ask Ryan if he is channeling Donald Trump or is this is sarcasm...but we all know it is not sarcasm.
3
It's called Renaissance Man, not renaissance woman. The power & the glory are man's, the sorrow and the weeping are women's. Or something like that:)
6
I would like to thank the NYT for this article. It confirms my long-held belief that soft "sciences" like sociology are completely worthless.
13
Ridiculous.. NO ONE wants too much emotional honesty. Look at how emotionally honest Donald Trump is treated by the press. (Why go on about his mistreatment of women. Look at how Bill Clinton treated his wife and a 22 year old intern... and no public apology that I know of!! and unlike Eliot Spitzer he did not have to leave office.)
6
Is anyone arguing that they want too much emotional honesty? I really don't see that.
1
What a great answer--"It's like we're scared...that the natural order of things will completely collapse." Yes, that is what happens when societal institutions begin to unravel and reconstitute themselves over the long-term to reveal more equitable social structures.
It famously happened when property-owning white male colonials rebelled from a far-away European king and parliament to establish a slave-owning republic.
It happened when impoverished European male and female peasants banned together with middle-class lawyers and businessmen to violently overthrow an absolute monarchy, an encrusted aristocracy and an all-powerful Catholic Church to establish a radical democratic republic.
It happened when slaves in a Caribbean colony violently overthrew their European slave-holding masters and established the first black-led republic in modern world history.
It happened when male and female peasants joined forces with middle-class communist revolutionaries to violently overthrow an autocratic absolute monarchy and capitalist system to establish the world's first communist nation.
The only difference here is that there's been no violent overthrow--the revolution in gender interactions and identities is like the Industrial Revolution: long, slow, mostly peaceful and incessant. The natural order of things is collapsing, and for the better, IMHO. We shouldn't be scared, and I'm a man.
It famously happened when property-owning white male colonials rebelled from a far-away European king and parliament to establish a slave-owning republic.
It happened when impoverished European male and female peasants banned together with middle-class lawyers and businessmen to violently overthrow an absolute monarchy, an encrusted aristocracy and an all-powerful Catholic Church to establish a radical democratic republic.
It happened when slaves in a Caribbean colony violently overthrew their European slave-holding masters and established the first black-led republic in modern world history.
It happened when male and female peasants joined forces with middle-class communist revolutionaries to violently overthrow an autocratic absolute monarchy and capitalist system to establish the world's first communist nation.
The only difference here is that there's been no violent overthrow--the revolution in gender interactions and identities is like the Industrial Revolution: long, slow, mostly peaceful and incessant. The natural order of things is collapsing, and for the better, IMHO. We shouldn't be scared, and I'm a man.
3
Many of you have lived in a very different world than the one I grew up and worked in. In more than a few ways I am a dinosaur, a former Marine, son of a very traditional Midwestern Irish-Cathloic father. You better believe there was code that bonded us together in the military and it was not nearly as dysfunctional as some of you believe. Neither would I say it was ideal, but there's nothing ideal about the jobs we were expected to do. I suppose we had our fair share of people you might accuse of being thin-skinned and emotionally threatened but the ones I admired (and there were many) were as self-assured, decent, and as empowered, to use one of your catch phrases, as any person I have met in my later travels through academia male or female.
Emotionally honest doesn't necessarily mean walking around crying in crowded public places. And I would hope there's nothing particularly invulnerable about dealing with challenging situations with something that approaches grace and courage. I suppose if I did this for a living I would have a more accurate feel for what you call hyper masculinity, but most of the college students you describe sound like a bunch of grade A jerks, and opening up their emotions may not be much help.
Emotionally honest doesn't necessarily mean walking around crying in crowded public places. And I would hope there's nothing particularly invulnerable about dealing with challenging situations with something that approaches grace and courage. I suppose if I did this for a living I would have a more accurate feel for what you call hyper masculinity, but most of the college students you describe sound like a bunch of grade A jerks, and opening up their emotions may not be much help.
16
Check out "The Mask You Live In," a film by Jennifer Siebel Newsom. Groups of boys speak openly about the pressures they feel to "man up."
2
. . . And a coward dies a thousand times. . . .
Growing up in a very tough town, I learned to fight and though I won barely half of my fights I made sure that I was not worth picking on. I never started a fight, never picked on anyone, never teased anyone. The hardest thing in the world is standing up to someone and knowing you are probably going to lose but you do it anyway because you have to be able to look at yourself in the mirror. After a while, you find yourself sticking up for a family member or a friend or a kid that's being picked on. That is manning up.
Growing up in a very tough town, I learned to fight and though I won barely half of my fights I made sure that I was not worth picking on. I never started a fight, never picked on anyone, never teased anyone. The hardest thing in the world is standing up to someone and knowing you are probably going to lose but you do it anyway because you have to be able to look at yourself in the mirror. After a while, you find yourself sticking up for a family member or a friend or a kid that's being picked on. That is manning up.
3
@ Ryan
As a young widow of two small children, a boy and a girl, living in a bad part of town (poverty does that to you), my now adult children reminded me that I told them that if anyone messed with them, they should hit them as hard as they can and keep hitting them until they fall down and then kick them a few times for good measure.
Worked quite well for them, as there is nothing wrong and everything right about having a reputation as giving as good as you get.
Those Americans who were lucky enough to be raised in nice safe suburban communities have no clue how rough life really is and come off as spoiled entitled crybabies, always whining about some 'microagression' or the other or that they heard a 'hurtful' word.
The law of the jungle is the *only* law there is...it is just that most Americans have outsourced all the dirty work to the very same people they sit in judgment of.
As a young widow of two small children, a boy and a girl, living in a bad part of town (poverty does that to you), my now adult children reminded me that I told them that if anyone messed with them, they should hit them as hard as they can and keep hitting them until they fall down and then kick them a few times for good measure.
Worked quite well for them, as there is nothing wrong and everything right about having a reputation as giving as good as you get.
Those Americans who were lucky enough to be raised in nice safe suburban communities have no clue how rough life really is and come off as spoiled entitled crybabies, always whining about some 'microagression' or the other or that they heard a 'hurtful' word.
The law of the jungle is the *only* law there is...it is just that most Americans have outsourced all the dirty work to the very same people they sit in judgment of.
3
"Those Americans who were lucky enough to be raised in nice safe suburban communities have no clue how rough life really is..."
Well, let's look at this. For those Americans who were raised in nice, safe communities, and who live their all their lives, life is not rough. And that is as valid a truth for them, as that life was rough for your kids.
Should everyone have to grow up in an unsafe community where life is rough? Why on earth?
Well, let's look at this. For those Americans who were raised in nice, safe communities, and who live their all their lives, life is not rough. And that is as valid a truth for them, as that life was rough for your kids.
Should everyone have to grow up in an unsafe community where life is rough? Why on earth?
The most obvious expression of male anger wasn't explored in this article: the lone-wolf mass killer. When I read about " a lone gunman" it always turns out to be a male. It seems that when women get angry they go shopping for a new pair of shoes but when men get angry they go shopping for an M-4.
6
If you care to thoughtlessly stereotype, how about "When women get angry, they kill their kids by putting them in ovens or by beating them to death". After all, it's an objective fact that the vast majority of child abuse comes by way of women caregivers.
9
Neal, since the vast majority of childcare is done by women, whether at home or away, and in the vast majority of single-parent homes that single parent is a woman, it's a lead-pipe cinch that among abused children, the vast majority of abusers are women. It's hard to imagine how they couldn't be.
4
Filicide is filicide--it isn't gender specific.
This was a truly interesting read but leaves me thinking how out of touch I am with the emotional needs of men half my age or more -- in addition to being off the mark on society's expectations of us guys. I spent half of my 20s in intense therapy to overcome childhood rape and its aftermath, so I had to reinvent everything I believed and felt - from scratch.
The experience of becoming a "new living being" as an adult, driven by my rules not society's, was also very isolating. So, I sympathize with the struggle described in teaching men just "how to live," find themselves and relearn natural behavior. The good part, though, is at least men today don't have to go it alone.
The experience of becoming a "new living being" as an adult, driven by my rules not society's, was also very isolating. So, I sympathize with the struggle described in teaching men just "how to live," find themselves and relearn natural behavior. The good part, though, is at least men today don't have to go it alone.
4
We all look for broad theories and wide brush strokes when in fact nuance is in every human experience and anecdote. All I know is that I wish my now 22 year old son had not felt a compelling need to be "strong" when he lived through several traumas when a teenager. I will never forget the image of finding him after the funeral of his good friend, next to the casket, staring down into his friend's face and him using all of his will to not cry in that moment. This has been an ongoing coping strategy in his life and now as an adult, he has had a couple trips to rehab and is struggling to find balance. Anecdotal? Yes. True in my life? 100%. My son was very sensitive as a toddler and by the time he was in high school, I can see now that stifling his emotions was his method for coping. 20/20 hindsight and a heart wrenching realization as his mom.
86
Wait, he felt a compelling need to be strong because of what? Genetics, the absent father, the lack of emotional understanding from the mother, or what? Heart-wrenching? Join the club. It's called being human.
What about his father? What did he teach him?
The only thing that makes me cry is the idea of Donald Trump becoming President.
4
“Don’t cry!… Aw, big boy! High five, high five! Say you’re a man"
That's not anger, that's bravery and it should be encouraged. I recently had to put up with a man who was fully "in touch with his emotions" -- with his endless reserves of self-pity. Finally told him to forget about himself and pay more attention to others. Editor’s note: This comment has been anonymized in accordance with applicable law(s).
That's not anger, that's bravery and it should be encouraged. I recently had to put up with a man who was fully "in touch with his emotions" -- with his endless reserves of self-pity. Finally told him to forget about himself and pay more attention to others. Editor’s note: This comment has been anonymized in accordance with applicable law(s).
14
@ Nick:
"Don't cry, big boys, say YOU are A MAN " is an encouragement"?
Indeed, just yesterday I saw a mother say to her little girl toddler getting a shot:
"Don't cry, big girl, high five, high five,' Say you are a WOMAN".
"Don't cry, big boys, say YOU are A MAN " is an encouragement"?
Indeed, just yesterday I saw a mother say to her little girl toddler getting a shot:
"Don't cry, big girl, high five, high five,' Say you are a WOMAN".
4
Nick, that part isn't, but look at the very next sentence after your quote. The child converted his pain to anger. That's so destructive, and not AT ALL the same as your self-pitying acquaintance. Self-pity isn't the same as "in touch with your emotions" by the way - a person with self-insight would think "I am feeling sorry for myself right now and I need to stop." The person who is not in touch with his feelings would keep on with his pity party and wonder why he had no friends.
5
womansplaining masculinity is just as bad as mansplaining feminism. Listen more, tell less.
1
Pre-school is the time and place to begin formally teaching children and parents the tools for attaining both emotional literacy and self-awareness, continuing through puberty to college. Unfortunately, many parents confuse this teaching with alien religious instruction, find it personally threatening, and so reject it out of hand.
Change always feels like a threat at some level — this is a normal bodily (emotional) reaction to the idea of change. The evolutionary value and genius of family systems (ensuring physical survival through behavioral conservatism — IE, not changing from generation to generation) is, sadly, also the enemy of needed change. Until society as a whole decides it wants the damaging and limiting stereotyping of men and women to cease, it will continue, all rational evidence of its negative effects to the contrary.
I'm optimistic, but not hopeful, about transcending this limitation of ours anytime soon.
Change always feels like a threat at some level — this is a normal bodily (emotional) reaction to the idea of change. The evolutionary value and genius of family systems (ensuring physical survival through behavioral conservatism — IE, not changing from generation to generation) is, sadly, also the enemy of needed change. Until society as a whole decides it wants the damaging and limiting stereotyping of men and women to cease, it will continue, all rational evidence of its negative effects to the contrary.
I'm optimistic, but not hopeful, about transcending this limitation of ours anytime soon.
1
The elephant in the room is the question, Why? Why do we assume that boys are not emotionally honest? Why do we need to crush the tears and the pain early on?
Because we have 2.5 million year old brains, wired for flight or fight. You know what happens when you fight? People get hurt. Sensitive men get hurt. Women and children get hurt. Why divorce yourself from your sensitivity? So that you can be emotionally cold enough to fight other men, who will be equally ruthless with your tribe. Cold relentlessness beats hot anger much of the time. Hot anger leads to fighting mistakes, which leads to death, enslavement, and degradation.
Boys crave acceptance from other boys. Cool, not hot, is cool. Competence in all things is what boys (and men) value.
Because we have 2.5 million year old brains, wired for flight or fight. You know what happens when you fight? People get hurt. Sensitive men get hurt. Women and children get hurt. Why divorce yourself from your sensitivity? So that you can be emotionally cold enough to fight other men, who will be equally ruthless with your tribe. Cold relentlessness beats hot anger much of the time. Hot anger leads to fighting mistakes, which leads to death, enslavement, and degradation.
Boys crave acceptance from other boys. Cool, not hot, is cool. Competence in all things is what boys (and men) value.
8
"Why divorce yourself from your sensitivity? So that you can be emotionally cold enough to fight other men, who will be equally ruthless with your tribe."
So we can continue to have endless wars and death and destruction. Whee.
Can we not find a better way?
So we can continue to have endless wars and death and destruction. Whee.
Can we not find a better way?
6
The most disturbing part of this article is the implicit assumption that there's something inherently wrong with men, and that the solution is to teach men to act more like women. This assumption only further pathologizes men in our culture as "defective women". Men are no more defective women than women are defective men.
As for the lack of resources for men on campuses, the primary obstacle to the marshaling of resources has been feminists who treat such men's centers as hostile provocation, as though having spaces both genders is a zero-sum game. The GSWS at SFU still decries spaces for men as "hegemonic masculinity" while insisting on safe spaces for women--as though the solution to sexism is more sexism. Ask Theryn Meyer, then-president of SFU's Advocacy for Men & Boys about the reaction of the GSWS to the proposed men's center.
As for the lack of resources for men on campuses, the primary obstacle to the marshaling of resources has been feminists who treat such men's centers as hostile provocation, as though having spaces both genders is a zero-sum game. The GSWS at SFU still decries spaces for men as "hegemonic masculinity" while insisting on safe spaces for women--as though the solution to sexism is more sexism. Ask Theryn Meyer, then-president of SFU's Advocacy for Men & Boys about the reaction of the GSWS to the proposed men's center.
75
Andrew, i have news for you. That is exactly what they are teaching our kids in the humanities departments of universities.
4
It is disturbing to me that you think this article is suggesting that something is inherently wrong with men. There is something wrong with our society, which creates an unhealthy environment for men AND women. This particular article is highlighting an issue with our society that primarily affects men, but also affects women who were raised in this way. This article is challenging the stereotypical ideal of masculinity, and suggesting that that is what is unhealthy. Those stereotypes are created by the media, and are also damaging to women. Does that mean I am saying there is something inherently wrong with women? No.
Any child that is raised to ignore their own emotions, and is taught that those emotions are invalid, and that it is more acceptable to express them through anger, is likely going to have some problems with emotional regulation in adulthood. That doesn't mean that there is something inherently wrong with those adults. This article is not saying that men are naturally flawed. It is saying that the way they are nurtured is flawed.
Any child that is raised to ignore their own emotions, and is taught that those emotions are invalid, and that it is more acceptable to express them through anger, is likely going to have some problems with emotional regulation in adulthood. That doesn't mean that there is something inherently wrong with those adults. This article is not saying that men are naturally flawed. It is saying that the way they are nurtured is flawed.
5
"The most disturbing part of this article is the implicit assumption that there's something inherently wrong with men, and that the solution is to teach men to act more like women."
Can you read? That is not at all what the article says, nor is it an implicit assumption of the article. The hypothesis of the article is that men are *socialized* in such a way that may hinder their emotional health and success in school, which can be harmful to both them and others. The article literally addresses the argument that there is something "inherently wrong with men" (or different between men and women's ability to address their own emotions) and rejects it. This article in no way whatsoever assumes that there is "something wrong with men."
Why is this comment highlighted?
Can you read? That is not at all what the article says, nor is it an implicit assumption of the article. The hypothesis of the article is that men are *socialized* in such a way that may hinder their emotional health and success in school, which can be harmful to both them and others. The article literally addresses the argument that there is something "inherently wrong with men" (or different between men and women's ability to address their own emotions) and rejects it. This article in no way whatsoever assumes that there is "something wrong with men."
Why is this comment highlighted?
5
Appaling title.
The article explains the actual problem by showing an example: a pre-school boy being socialized to the idea that being a "man" means not crying, and not showing emotion.
Yet judging by the title, you'd think the problem is a lack of HONESTY on the part of men. And not, say, that they've been taught by a prejudiced society that showing many emotions is unacceptable for a man.
The article explains the actual problem by showing an example: a pre-school boy being socialized to the idea that being a "man" means not crying, and not showing emotion.
Yet judging by the title, you'd think the problem is a lack of HONESTY on the part of men. And not, say, that they've been taught by a prejudiced society that showing many emotions is unacceptable for a man.
2
Honesty, in this context, does not refer to being truthful (or the opposite of telling a lie). It refers to a person's ability to acknowledge those emotions and the ability to make the choice to share those emotions with others. Being honest with oneself.
2
Sorry, but the research cited here is paper-thin social scientific speculation and ideology. Mass shootings and "sexual assault on campus" are now explained by these masculinity issues? What explains, then, the vast majority of men who face the same issues and don't kill and rape? And what "sexual assaults on campus" are these "experts" talking about? According to the Department of Justice report on sexual assault victimizations among college age students, non-students are more likely to be victims than students and less than 4% of victimizations of students occur on campus. This piece is simply filled with the gossip and prejudice of contemporary gender group-think in universities and has little to do with the facts.
There is also a fundamental disagreement on values here between me and this author. The example with which this story begins, of a young boy "mutating" his "emotional suffering into anger" when he is told to be a man and so initiated into the destructive wars male identity has itself, can be read differently. Sure, a boy can be told to be a man in all kinds of destructive ways at inappropriate times on inappropriate occasions with unrealistic expectations and cruel sanctions. But to ask a young boy to "be a man" can also be a meaningful and appropriate challenge for many boys--a challenge to face up to and not be defeated by pain and danger, to persevere against hardship, to use natural physical strength for good, and yes, to control emotion in the right way.
There is also a fundamental disagreement on values here between me and this author. The example with which this story begins, of a young boy "mutating" his "emotional suffering into anger" when he is told to be a man and so initiated into the destructive wars male identity has itself, can be read differently. Sure, a boy can be told to be a man in all kinds of destructive ways at inappropriate times on inappropriate occasions with unrealistic expectations and cruel sanctions. But to ask a young boy to "be a man" can also be a meaningful and appropriate challenge for many boys--a challenge to face up to and not be defeated by pain and danger, to persevere against hardship, to use natural physical strength for good, and yes, to control emotion in the right way.
62
Yeah, my brother was just such a "man", taught not to cry, but to recite the boy scout pledge when he was in pain. I watched him, and thought him wrong headed. My mother admired his stoicism, and often asked me why I couldn't be more like him. I vowed from an early age NOT to be like my big brother. I cried when I hurt, empathized with all the dead dogs and cats we saw on the highways, and longed for a pet to love. When we reached middle age, I told him that I had vowed not to be like him, and he finally admitted that he wished he was more like me. Controlling emotions rather than feeling them is a drag. A word to the wise.
6
There is a huge and existentially important difference between, on the hand, learning how to control your emotions in the right way and at the right time for your own benefit and that of others, and, on the other, NOT FEELING your emotions and not ever expressing them and lacking empathy and love.
2
Why can't crying and realizing that you're fine after getting a vaccination be persevering against hardship? Thereby expressing your emotions as you feel them instead of just being conditioned to replace them with anger. I think it's not hard to agree that people expressing genuine sadness do less harm to society than fake-macho anger.
2
As a therapist, I would like the author to explain why I find countless, successful young women in my office who want their men to earn more than themselves. Apparently, they don't want to be the actual breadwinners. Having options and a strong man is what they really want. When they find themselves as breadwinner, they feel unloved and unprotected. Being a breadwinner requires strength and perseverance which is what they still want from their men.
103
No doubt the feminists will say the women are brainwashed to think this. They also say the men are brainwashed to act a certain way. So that means everyone is brainwashed. Hmm. Most likely, that is the case in a way - these are hard wired evolutionary traits. It makes perfect evolutionary sense for a woman to seek out the alpha male who can bully and/or outcompete others into obtaining more resources, giving her offspring the best chance in life. And that's exactly what we see. The veneer of civilization masks an ocean of primeval urges.
5
It's almost as if women are susceptible to the same toxic gender stereotypes as men are! Who would've thought.
9
Sarah, many many accomplished professional women insist that their mate be just as accomplished, if not more so. Like it or not, in order to be successful today a man must put on a tough facade. There is no room for emotions if you want to succeed in our capitalist society.
3
From most of the comments I've read, I think the understanding of the purpose of this course is deeply misunderstood. Personally, you may have raised great boys who can cry in front of mama and seem like the sweetest kids in the world. But out in the real world, men have a traditional social obligation to appear tough/non emotional. This can manifest as everything from not being able to show love/emotion to their children to going along with their buddies when they treat women as objects. No one wants to imagine their sweet boy as capable of this, but it is probably more common than not. How can we stop rape culture? By making good boys/men feel more empowered to go with their feelings, stand up and say "no!". There are so many college rape stories where one or two guys say they did it, or watched, or knew, but did nothing because of the pressure... They should have been calling the police. But they don't because of brotherhood, or whatever overpowers their emotional response to what is right... This needs to stop. This class is smart and needed. It seems a sensible and sensitive education on how to combine men/boys in a society where women are still struggling to be equal, yet young men might feel displaced.
8
Keep feeding boys this androgynous pablum, along with healthy over-doeses of sugar, video games, TV, and genetically modified + processed food. Combine that with lethal overdoeses of Hollywood drivel + women. On birth control pills, which confuses their bodies, and real masculinity goes down the tubes. Nice work.
1
Oh dear, birth control confuses the bodies of women, and is a danger to the masculinity of alpha males?
Maybe that resulted in the fact that a man can't spell the plural of dose. Spelling it "deoses" twice is hardly a typo.
Maybe that resulted in the fact that a man can't spell the plural of dose. Spelling it "deoses" twice is hardly a typo.
8
Yes Sarah, birth control pills that suppress ovulation can change or even suppress our emotions.
1
What are you basing this on? Sounds like nonsense to me. (I've used them on and off for decades myself, and certainly haven't experienced anything like you're describing).
1
In the 1980's, there was a scholarly/literary "men's movement" that bears no resemblance to the synonymous phenomenon of today's disenfranchised young men filling message boards with bile for Anita Sarkissian et al.
The original movement, of which the most prominent figure was the great poet Robert Bly, is due for a renaissance. The book "King Magician Warrior Lover" in particular helped me tremendously as I made it through college, as did the fact that I was able to discuss the book's ideas with like-minded friends of different life experiences and ages.
The original movement, of which the most prominent figure was the great poet Robert Bly, is due for a renaissance. The book "King Magician Warrior Lover" in particular helped me tremendously as I made it through college, as did the fact that I was able to discuss the book's ideas with like-minded friends of different life experiences and ages.
1
It's great to see these topics making 'mainstream' press. It takes strong parents to break those patterns in themselves and to not pass them on anymore. Very few do this.
5
Ironic because the article is calling for more men to be emotionally honest. Yet when we start to talk about our feelings we get labelled as "mansplaining" or you see feminists attacking men claiming that "male tears are delicious" and showing pictures of cups labelled "male tears".
And yet you still wonder why men don't want to engage in pointless discussions when the only outcome is for people to mock, ridicule, and label them.
Its not men that need to change its women and feminism, because the more it mutates the more it becomes toxic and has the reverse affect of what is being proposed here.
Chivalry is another thing that has to be removed. As mentioned in this video about how women will go and help other women but not other men, it just goes to show how that is nonsense and it stems from this notion that people should help women but not men. They did domestic violence versions as well with the same result. It needs to stop and from a young age people need to taught to help both sexes. Suicide rates for young men are another alarming problem that women and feminists appear to not care about at all. Even when it is 5x the rate of female suicide.
And yet you still wonder why men don't want to engage in pointless discussions when the only outcome is for people to mock, ridicule, and label them.
Its not men that need to change its women and feminism, because the more it mutates the more it becomes toxic and has the reverse affect of what is being proposed here.
Chivalry is another thing that has to be removed. As mentioned in this video about how women will go and help other women but not other men, it just goes to show how that is nonsense and it stems from this notion that people should help women but not men. They did domestic violence versions as well with the same result. It needs to stop and from a young age people need to taught to help both sexes. Suicide rates for young men are another alarming problem that women and feminists appear to not care about at all. Even when it is 5x the rate of female suicide.
7
@ Ben, You write
"Yet when we start to talk about our feelings we get labelled as "mansplaining"
Maybe you should learn what the word 'mansplaining' means.
It is the typical behaviour of some men talking down to woman with whom they don't agree on certain issues and telling them - among other things - that they have no clue about that very subject.
It seems that you have been accused by women of mansplaining quite often, dear, one which you prove in your comment quite clearly.
"Yet when we start to talk about our feelings we get labelled as "mansplaining"
Maybe you should learn what the word 'mansplaining' means.
It is the typical behaviour of some men talking down to woman with whom they don't agree on certain issues and telling them - among other things - that they have no clue about that very subject.
It seems that you have been accused by women of mansplaining quite often, dear, one which you prove in your comment quite clearly.
6
Seems like you might be guilty of a dollop of womansplaining, Sarah, like many female commenters here who can't wait to advise men of their many failings as though they know them personally.
8
I agree with you 100%, Ben. I see women (who call themselves feminists) completely disregarding men's issues, and telling men to stay away from women's rights pages. This is so horrible and counterproductive. Men's issues affect us as women, just as women's issues affect men. We coexist on the same planet, and in the same civilizations, so we have to support each other as humans. All of us need to be aware of the issues that all of us are dealing with. Women alone can't solve problems that affect women, even if they only affect women (which is never the case, anyway). Same goes for men not being able to solve their problems alone without women being on board. It is not a men vs. women competition as so many have made it out to be. Feminism is supposed to be about equality, not about making men out to be the bad guys. This gives feminism a bad name, and that movement no longer has any credibility as a result.
2
I hate to break it to the author but there's more than one type of 'boy'. Why assume that the 'frat boy' is the norm? They do not make up more than a tiny percentage of college-attending males, and are themselves highly variegated (I assume the author is not thinking of 'Jewish' or 'Asian' fraternities, whose culture tends to be nothing like the stereotypical rich, white male 'fraternity' of Animal House). No discussion is made of the freaks, geeks and weirdos (although I love the irony of even being ignored by gender studies 'research', as if we hadn't been ignored enough!). Did we play video games as a way to flex our 'power'? Pfff, we didn't have any! Hookups!? 'Bros'!? Virtually no one I hung out with at college experienced anything like that. I worry the author has been watching too much TV...
Furthermore, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being 'tough' mentally or physically. Because of sexual dimorphism men tend to be raised to be 'tough', mentally and physically. This is true in cultures all over the world, and is a basic response to our biology and the desire to ensure that our group/clan/tribe survives and is not wiped out by a roaming band of tougher folk. We have much more freedom than pre-modern cultures did to have a broader range of experience, but we still cannot fully repudiate our biology.
Lastly, a resource centre for men? Really? I cannot believe how bloated American universities are. Fine, have your resource centres, we'll focus on Nobel Prizes.
Furthermore, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being 'tough' mentally or physically. Because of sexual dimorphism men tend to be raised to be 'tough', mentally and physically. This is true in cultures all over the world, and is a basic response to our biology and the desire to ensure that our group/clan/tribe survives and is not wiped out by a roaming band of tougher folk. We have much more freedom than pre-modern cultures did to have a broader range of experience, but we still cannot fully repudiate our biology.
Lastly, a resource centre for men? Really? I cannot believe how bloated American universities are. Fine, have your resource centres, we'll focus on Nobel Prizes.
3
"Emotional" is a complex value-laden word, term, and multidimensional process which is both culturally defined, enabled as well as limited-bounded, expressing a range of what is experienced as well as being denied, distorted and muted by a person's inner, often unshared, self, and identity, as well as by one's range of public-social selves and identities as one (mal)adapts and (mal)functions, daily, in a range of roles, social networks, and a spectrum of systems and environments with their "demands, " norms and values given a person's available and accessible resources as well as limitations. A preference to rely only,or primarily, on words, for example, to express feelings may itself be a barrier, rather than being a bridge, to both experiencing as well as taking " a chance" to be... Consider, for example, the inappropriateness of not feeling some anxiety, depression, confusion, outrage, compassion, sadness, each and every day, in a local as well as global environment, which violates in so many ways, and socially constructs marginalized "others" through the "safety" of complacency and cooptation- fed by a dehumanizing WE-THEY view of the world. Existing inequities in experiencing wellbeing, quaility of life, in conflict-free life spaces, and opportunities to develop physically,psychologically, socially, educationally, spiritually, economically, politically as a family member, neighbor and community member can and does limit the joy of celebrating BEING alive.
The discrepancy regarding college enrollment of women to men(71% to 61%) may be equilibrated if we look at those who enroll in the military(1,200,000 men to 20,000 women). The article implies that men stagnate by not going to college. I suspect many young men who can't afford to go to college start out in the military.
I have a son in his twenties, and I thought his football coach in prep school, for better or worse, inculcated his players with strong messages that real men didn't cry, had to be tough, always put the team and winning before any other activity, and that women were best seen as cheerleaders who ran bake sales, and organized the hot dogs at half time. At no time did I feel he concerned himself with growing the boys emotionally or intellectually. It was always the bro code talk about team and being "tough". The best players, who were emulated, were tough, and largely unemotional, stoic and silent. No wonder a lot of boys join the military, when compared to women. If they played high school team sports, they find comfort and familiarity with the bro code of the military. If you want your kids to avoid this brainwash, and to grow as individuals, encourage them to try a few individual sports to round out their experience, and maybe even, gasp, accept coaching from a woman, as many swimmers or horse back riders do.
I have a son in his twenties, and I thought his football coach in prep school, for better or worse, inculcated his players with strong messages that real men didn't cry, had to be tough, always put the team and winning before any other activity, and that women were best seen as cheerleaders who ran bake sales, and organized the hot dogs at half time. At no time did I feel he concerned himself with growing the boys emotionally or intellectually. It was always the bro code talk about team and being "tough". The best players, who were emulated, were tough, and largely unemotional, stoic and silent. No wonder a lot of boys join the military, when compared to women. If they played high school team sports, they find comfort and familiarity with the bro code of the military. If you want your kids to avoid this brainwash, and to grow as individuals, encourage them to try a few individual sports to round out their experience, and maybe even, gasp, accept coaching from a woman, as many swimmers or horse back riders do.
2
From my past experiences with women (I am 60) it was usually welcomed for me to show my emotions though only up to a point. If I was perceived as being weak then it was game over. There is a fine line there.
4
That's probably true. It's definitely true of women, that we are welcome to show our emotions up to a point, and after that it's game over. We're all taught that as children, and that's a good thing. Controlling the way we express our emotions is not the same as denying or repressing them. You can say "I'm really angry right now" or you can punch a hole through a wall. Both express anger. Only the first is acceptable among civilized people. Same as saying "you really hurt my feelings just now" and going on an hours-long crying-and-sulking jag. The first is acceptable; the second is something we reprove three-year-olds for.
2
Hand that rocks the cradle. Young boys and girls spend most time with Mom.
4
Not any more. Many young children spend most of their time with a nanny, in daycare or in pre-school.
I vividly remember when I was five or six years old (I was born in 1959) my aunt reciting this nursery rhyme:
Sugar and spice and everything nice,
That's what little girls are made of.
Snakes and snails and puppy dogs' tails,
That's what little boys are made of.
I remember the multiple conflicting thoughts this brought up for me:
1. Girls behave better than boys, but...
2. I wanted to behave well too and receive her approval, but...
3. If I did behave well and was a good boy I would also somehow be less of a boy.
I think that rhyme continues to echo throughout gender relations in ways that disservice both women and men.
Sugar and spice and everything nice,
That's what little girls are made of.
Snakes and snails and puppy dogs' tails,
That's what little boys are made of.
I remember the multiple conflicting thoughts this brought up for me:
1. Girls behave better than boys, but...
2. I wanted to behave well too and receive her approval, but...
3. If I did behave well and was a good boy I would also somehow be less of a boy.
I think that rhyme continues to echo throughout gender relations in ways that disservice both women and men.
2
Oh please. Selfish macho is being matched by Machisma (I guess formerly relegated to 'mean girl'). Dishonesty is like wearing black, it goes with everthing. You hear about it after work; on facebook screeds. Narcissistic personality disorder is being removed from the DSM psychiatry handbook. Too many! Who can tell anymore?
1
Some young men might learn something useful from such a course, but others will wish there was a distinction made and kept between sharing and merely whining. A data point such as the atmosphere in a men's room is not exactly rigorous in the pursuit of valid research. Entirely appropriate to the concerns of the campus, in the larger community men's emotions are generally in need of focus and require sublimation to slightly more productive goals, like duty and responsibility at home and work.
It would be nice if the article had given some guidelines on differentiating the valid from the merely solipsistic, but this might be too much to ask. The habit of sharing every detail of the subjective on social media has encouraged a deliberate confusion between them, and the amount of time wasted is now immeasurable.
Guys should extract what modest insight they can from such a class while at school; at work, "they" will be encouraged to 'put on your big boy pants and get back to work.' Duty and self-discipline have become undervalued components of adulthood.
It would be nice if the article had given some guidelines on differentiating the valid from the merely solipsistic, but this might be too much to ask. The habit of sharing every detail of the subjective on social media has encouraged a deliberate confusion between them, and the amount of time wasted is now immeasurable.
Guys should extract what modest insight they can from such a class while at school; at work, "they" will be encouraged to 'put on your big boy pants and get back to work.' Duty and self-discipline have become undervalued components of adulthood.
4
This is a pitch for the male branch of the gender studies movement. It's pretty old stuff, and it hasn't worked. I heard it all back in the early 1970's from an enterprising guidance counselor who taught a similar course in my high school. The more sensitive of us listened politely and participated; the bad boys either turned it off, or proudly made fun of the whole thing.
45 years later, we have a vastly more dominant culture of binge drinking, sexual assaults and academic failure among young men. Perhaps the counseling profession should focus on promoting basic responsibility, respect and healthy attitudes -- rather than dubious gender theories.
45 years later, we have a vastly more dominant culture of binge drinking, sexual assaults and academic failure among young men. Perhaps the counseling profession should focus on promoting basic responsibility, respect and healthy attitudes -- rather than dubious gender theories.
Women outpace men in college acceptance and academic achievement, but not in the workplace nor in pay. And what about the fact that 80% of the people taking the course are women, according to his article? What does it mean that women are the ones exploring the question of men and emotional honesty?
3
When it came to sign up for a foreign language, I wanted to take French. My motives were not pure. I knew that the French class had a richer environment for meeting fourteen year old girls. My mom made me take German. She thought that French was a language spoken by women and homosexuals.
(She denies this on a stack of Bibles half a century later.)
(She denies this on a stack of Bibles half a century later.)
2
Love it...It takes a boy so much fortitude to defy the prevailing manhood stereotype, and parents are usually the enforcers of the stereotypes.
As I sat and talked to a male patient last week, he began to cry when I helped him identify the trauma he had as a young kid and the trauma he is currently enduring as a student of color at a majority white school. He had been referred to me because he had a previous diagnosis of "bipolar."
As we talked, he showed me how our culture's unreasonable expectations of men to "suck it up" can cause direct palpable damage. I'm glad he was able to reach out; others aren't so brave.
As we talked, he showed me how our culture's unreasonable expectations of men to "suck it up" can cause direct palpable damage. I'm glad he was able to reach out; others aren't so brave.
7
I'm glad he has you, Brian.
1
Real Men Smile? Who is going to take this course? Academic institutions from grade school on up are threatened by masculinity. Males have to adapt to strategies that work better for females to succeed. Classroom learning is now based on cooperation rather than competition. Grades are weighted for homework, rather than content mastery/tests. The shift has been in how kids are being taught and evaluated. If only educators would be honest. How does this make male students feel?
1
As the managed classroom has advanced in complexity and increased in its demands to sit still and do complicated school-tasks, boys have been doing worse and worse. And, yes, the cure has been--in some cases explicitly--to teach them to behave more like girls, who are doing much better. It will take a sea change to make a dent in this or even to begin to understand what has happened to boys.
You further stereotypes in both directions here. But as a man, I'll say most of my male friends complain about the pressure women place on them to constantly be at their side. It's sad to see so many men ask permission to spend time with other guys. The broken male bonds that came along with the rise of feminism and the culture of sexual shame upon men is the reason men are, stressed, not marrying, angry, confused and dropping out of conventional norms. There once was a great unexamined benefit to separation of genders of the previous hundred years and longer. Say this and women paint the opinion as primitive, denigrated male figures, having sex randomly and drinking, or watching sports. Most men long for a solid bond with another male whom they can trust. Through this an emotional bond forms that completes a happiness and healthiness to a man's emotional framework. That's been extinguished due t the idea that separate is not equal. Men have few if any places where they bond. Nothing against women, but they invade every space. They insist upon it, and men are so afraid of being painted as gay, or strange in some way, they simply go along with it. I have a male friend who says 3 words openly and confidently to me, and his girlfriend doesn't love it but she has no choice and feigns a smile when she hears him say, "I love you." Not, some insecure quantifying fashion as, "I love ya bro", or "Love that guy". No, straight up talk. I say it back and I mean it.
1
Oh my God please don't blame us as a group for your (and your friend's poor relationship decisions. If you feel that your girlfriend suffocates you - perhaps it's your choice in girlfriends, not womankind in general. A mature, mutually respectful relationship happens when both participants are comfortable asking for and giving as much space as each person feels they need. It sounds like either you are projecting thoughts onto your friend's girlfriend or he's made a bad choice in girlfriends. Or maybe his girlfriend thinks you're a jerk because you've been a jerk to her. Or she's insecure about her relationship with him. Any way you look at it though the blame does not lay at the feet of my entire gender.
Emotional immaturity is a human condition - not gender specific.
Emotional immaturity is a human condition - not gender specific.
4
Emotional health is a vague concept. I expect the author means some ideal combination of equilibrium, happiness, intimacy. But I can't think that attaining it merely requires relaxing rigid gender roles.
3
I think emotional education is not just a boys issue. I have two daughters. One of them has been running into issues at school since she has been 4 because she is constantly told that it is unacceptable for her in any form to express anger. As these emotions get bottled up, they find more destructive paths to surface (pulling out eyelashes, etc.).
Unfortunately teacher in charge of education of very young children are often not equipped on teaching kids about emotion and cannot deal with the fact when it doesn't work simply to tell the child that he or she should not feel a certain way.
Unfortunately teacher in charge of education of very young children are often not equipped on teaching kids about emotion and cannot deal with the fact when it doesn't work simply to tell the child that he or she should not feel a certain way.
4
The tone and even the graphic illustration of this article shows how even the subject is a matter of ridicule -- even for this newspaper. I find the graphic particularly disrespectful.
1
There's a difference between suppressing one's emotions vs. refusing to wallow in one's emotions. Growing up, the men in our family and our neighborhood seemed fully expressive, just not particularly verbal. A look, a smile, a sniffle, a bowed head, a squeeze on the shoulder, could communicate a lot.
There's more than one way to be emotionally honest and expressive.
There's more than one way to be emotionally honest and expressive.
4
I think the title should read "Teaching YOUNG Men How To Be Emotionally Honest" The median age of male college students in the US is 22.7 years old. And this seems to be the population from which Andrew Reiner most all of his case studies. Perhaps because young men are required to register for the draft at age 18, they start reflecting on the traits of what society glorifies in warriors. Ex: In the movies soldiers who cry are depicted as cowards. But if you speak to veterans w PTSD, you will find that is untrue. In our all-volunteer military the age of the average enlisted personnel was slightly more than 27 (2009). Once young men age out settings where they are surrounded by and therefore influenced by their peers, they experience more opportunities to express their individuality. I would venture to say a thirty-something male undergrad (yes, they exist) is not as hyperfocused on being a "tough guy" to fit in w his twenty-something male classmates who are also at the ideal age for combat soldiers.
1
Another reason I'm so glad I didn't have any children, to have missed out on the unsurpassed superficiality of American socialization norms...
4
The underlying story that gets under the skin of this story is that we are expecting schools to teach boys and men to be emotionally healthy. Should this really be a focus of schooling, transferring responsibility for child rearing from home to government? Whatever became of parenting?
Now, consider that we seem to be having a hard time teaching the basics education is intended for in the first place, let alone keep politics out of it. and you have one of the most scary Big Brother syndromes you can imagine. Who decides what "emotionally healthy" means in the first place?
Now, consider that we seem to be having a hard time teaching the basics education is intended for in the first place, let alone keep politics out of it. and you have one of the most scary Big Brother syndromes you can imagine. Who decides what "emotionally healthy" means in the first place?
2
Well you have some serious explanation issues with your thesis: 1. Men are doing worse, as the stereotypical masculinity is forbidden, demonized and tried to be removed from boys. So how is removing it more going to help do you think? 2. the amount of resources made available to women, and the discrimination there are towards men in education, that started when they where fewer, but are still there when they are 2/3 of the students have no implications what so ever? 3. Men are not women, stop trying to make men women.
3
i just asked my 8th grade son if he feels that he should not study. He said yes. Guys at school all brag about how they aced the test but didn't study. Being a guy means everything is easy for you, he said. The author makes a valid point, and I think we need to address this directly so that boys get the message that studying is not an admission of failure but an important part of becoming a man.
38
Being "given an education" means being given access to information. If you do not study, then the access is wasted. The current emphasis on the "don't be a Try Hard" perception fits into this "access is enough" era. Preferential hiring of males further reinforces having simply "a diploma" from what have become diploma mills. No content and no emotional skills. And then people wonder why nothing works in this country. There is a larger lack of both emotional and factual dishonesty among men with a system that reinforces what is a process.
Maybe we could put something in their food to give them like, you know a sort of chemical nudge.
1
Thank you for asking your son. His answer is so profound. He is a very thoughtful young man. I have hope.
All men are not rigid robots and all women are not automatically fountains of over emotionality. While our society does encourage the more emotionally expressive opinions from women as opposed to men, this does not mean that unemotionally expressive men are suppressed men. All individuals have certain emotional proclivities. Coming from a large family, I have seen less emotionally expressive women and very emotionally aware men. We discount all peoples emotional natures at our own peril. We all need patience and tolerance for own individual differences.
12
All men are not rigid robots and all women are not automatically fountains of over emotionality. While our society does encourage the more emotionally expressive opinions from women as opposed to men, this does not mean that unemotionally expressive men are suppressed men. All individuals gave certain emotional proclivities. Going from a large family, I have seen less emotionally expressive women and very emotionally aware men. We discount all peoples emotional natures at our own peril. We all need patience and tolerance for own individual differences.
2
"Cultural activities are often denigrated as un-masculine by preadolescent and adolescent boys." This is a shame. The greatness of humankind is especially evident in the arts -- music, literature, drama, visual arts, architecture, dance. Teach boys an appreciation of the arts and the extraordinary sensitivity and emotional range they reveal. Teach them that there is no stigma associated with involvement in the arts (consider, after all, how much art has been created by men). Then I expect they will turn out alright.
9
I think this is funny because I was married 52 years, raised 3 sons and grew up with a dad and two brothers. I don't recall males ever having trouble holding back their emotions at any time in my life. It has been my experience that females have a lot more trouble being honest about their emotions because of finding the right words to express their emotions. Unlike men they have a greater need for acceptance. I have never really understood why. We have a lot of sexually segregated high schools in Cincinnati and that may account for some of what I see. I always preferred to work in an office of men because their focus of concern usually had to do the companies success, not their own which is "success" in any company. But who am I but a person fascinated by what captivates the mind and focus of humans, males and females and how they express themselves. The funny part is that emotions are displayed in movies all the time called acting. I assure kids know how to act. i worked in a school tending to their tummy aches especially on math days both girls and boys. Females are emerging because World War II and the following technology made it possible. All tools can be plugged in. All services can be provided. Our society is vastly different than before WWII. We will be growing tomatoes on the moon before you know it. Men in photos from the pre War era developed muscles from using their bodies to make a living. Pain was part of their survival.
11
There is nothing wrong with being a man. Throughout the course of evolution, kudos to men as we have traditionally been the hunter, protector, enforcer, warrior, leader, animal trainer/caretaker, problem solver and clearly the nucleus if the family. It's guaranteed that for most of human history, a strong male figure in the family/tribe was likely the greatest differentiator between survival and death. Transitioning from that violent role to scientist, teacher, farmer, and diplomat was quite a feat. We have nothing to apologize for - evolution will take care of that.
11
You must be kidding. Instead of Man the Protector, history tells us that man is the oppressor and killer. Archaeological evidence indicates that 6,000-10,000 years ago, humans lived in relatively egalitarian tribes, clans or villages. Then man learned to control the production (labor) and reproduction of animals and began herding culture in which animals were enslaved to the purposes of man.
The evidence is that men then applied the same paradigm of animal oppression to women. Herding culture, warfare, the spread of agriculture, the subjugation of women, the rise of male skygod religions all arose at that time, the cloud of patriarchy descending over the human species and bringing rape, warfare, violence, control, genocide to modern destruction of the planet.
History shows man not as a protector, but as an oppressor and destroyer, individually, collectively and nationally. Religionists keep busy raping children and beating women. The USA destroyed Iraq. Another group of men, ISIS, has destroyed Palmyra and is destroying Syria. Male technologies are destroying the biosphere, climate and planetary homeostasis. Male violence and hunting and rapaciousness have and are driving many species into extinction. Male inability to empathize has lead to a world where thousands of children die every day of starvatio while billionaires play with rockets and yachts that destroy coral reefs.
Man is no problem solver --- he is the problem creator.
The evidence is that men then applied the same paradigm of animal oppression to women. Herding culture, warfare, the spread of agriculture, the subjugation of women, the rise of male skygod religions all arose at that time, the cloud of patriarchy descending over the human species and bringing rape, warfare, violence, control, genocide to modern destruction of the planet.
History shows man not as a protector, but as an oppressor and destroyer, individually, collectively and nationally. Religionists keep busy raping children and beating women. The USA destroyed Iraq. Another group of men, ISIS, has destroyed Palmyra and is destroying Syria. Male technologies are destroying the biosphere, climate and planetary homeostasis. Male violence and hunting and rapaciousness have and are driving many species into extinction. Male inability to empathize has lead to a world where thousands of children die every day of starvatio while billionaires play with rockets and yachts that destroy coral reefs.
Man is no problem solver --- he is the problem creator.
18
Kudos to you! Man has been a problem solver. We should Herald that bravery.
1
While I appreciate the essence of this article, the much deeper issue is the fact that men behaving poorly is a much bigger global problem than men not able to cry.
I know....I know....that's another story.....but I believe they are closely linked - culturally and genetically.
I know....I know....that's another story.....but I believe they are closely linked - culturally and genetically.
2
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf". Orwell
23
Women know full well that rough men stand everywhere at the ready to rape and beat, degrade and kill, and that nowhere in the world are women safe from male violence, whether domestic violence in the home, sexual violence from strangers or the generalized violence of the male past time of warring. The women of Iraq and Syria and Afghanistan are not sleeping peacefully; nor considering the prevalence of sleeping medication, are American women.
It is because of the rough men, who stand ever ready to do violence, that there is no peace. The rough men are not protectors, rather they are perpetuators of a culture and world of perpetual warfare and (largely male) violence. And the women and children and wildlife and planet suffer because men seem to love violence and destruction, in entertainment and in life, and seem unable to evolve past their primitive reptilian brain.
It is because of the rough men, who stand ever ready to do violence, that there is no peace. The rough men are not protectors, rather they are perpetuators of a culture and world of perpetual warfare and (largely male) violence. And the women and children and wildlife and planet suffer because men seem to love violence and destruction, in entertainment and in life, and seem unable to evolve past their primitive reptilian brain.
4
Excellent point; there's only a need for rough men because, and so long as, other groups have them. I don't know why you had to ruin a very good comment with an invective in the last sentence that is as gratuitous as it is self-contradictory. Reptiles are some of the most laid-back creatures on this planet.
3
I'm so sorry, Earthling, for your viewpoint and what might have caused it. Most men are not as you picture. Many men understand both the masculine and feminine parts of their psyche. Conflating Orwell's statement with all men is simply wrong.
Ever hear of Amazon women? They were real. Ever hear of the women who brutally tortured both men and women in the German concentration camps? Putting glass rods in men's urethra and shattering the glass? I'm sure both woman- and man-caused violence occurs every day in this sad world.
I find this article badly skewed and another drumbeat to castigate and demean the masculine in our society. Our schools are filled with it. Little Suzie sticks her tongue out a little Johnny and says "Brrrrpppp". Little Johnny points his finger and says "Bang". Nothing happens to Suzie. Johnny is expelled. Just another PC insanity.
Please do some reading on the structure of the psyche and the concept of "projection". It will help.
Ever hear of Amazon women? They were real. Ever hear of the women who brutally tortured both men and women in the German concentration camps? Putting glass rods in men's urethra and shattering the glass? I'm sure both woman- and man-caused violence occurs every day in this sad world.
I find this article badly skewed and another drumbeat to castigate and demean the masculine in our society. Our schools are filled with it. Little Suzie sticks her tongue out a little Johnny and says "Brrrrpppp". Little Johnny points his finger and says "Bang". Nothing happens to Suzie. Johnny is expelled. Just another PC insanity.
Please do some reading on the structure of the psyche and the concept of "projection". It will help.
3
I'm not one to lament the decline of "old" masculinity, but I'm worried that the "new" one has got it all backwards. Being openly vulnerable, per se, just makes you more vulnerable. I was brought up by a single mother and never really repressed in that particular respect — only to discover later in life that I'm actually much better off coping, or even pretending to cope, on my own.
Now I might be an anomaly, but look at where being vulnerable has gotten women. Feminism is quite right in combatting the damsel in distress stereotype, both projected and internalised. It is the most disempowering thing imaginable.
To get to the point, where the "emotional men" paradigm has got it backwards is in putting the emphasis on being socialised to *show* emotion (or not socialised to not show it). There definitely is something that the socialisation of women gets right where it doesn't with men, but that something is knowing how to *respond* to emotion. Confidence as well as competence about expressing one's own emotions essentially comes as an added bonus. Emotional openness is useless if you go in expecting magic and violins, while remaining clueless when confronted with the same openness in others.
The real problem with "boys don't cry" is that it devalues non-trivial strength of character by making it the (impossible) norm. In other respects it's almost a distraction. That it's expected of men to ostentatiously despair at how "women are incomprehensible!" is a much bigger culprit.
Now I might be an anomaly, but look at where being vulnerable has gotten women. Feminism is quite right in combatting the damsel in distress stereotype, both projected and internalised. It is the most disempowering thing imaginable.
To get to the point, where the "emotional men" paradigm has got it backwards is in putting the emphasis on being socialised to *show* emotion (or not socialised to not show it). There definitely is something that the socialisation of women gets right where it doesn't with men, but that something is knowing how to *respond* to emotion. Confidence as well as competence about expressing one's own emotions essentially comes as an added bonus. Emotional openness is useless if you go in expecting magic and violins, while remaining clueless when confronted with the same openness in others.
The real problem with "boys don't cry" is that it devalues non-trivial strength of character by making it the (impossible) norm. In other respects it's almost a distraction. That it's expected of men to ostentatiously despair at how "women are incomprehensible!" is a much bigger culprit.
6
Very well put. Very.
Yes.
I think the first step for any person, male or female, to understand "what am I feeling right now." The second step is to consider whether and how to express these. Sometimes we don't get much choice about how we express our feelings but sometimes we do. So for instance, if you've had a bad day at work and a terrible commute home, you walk in the house understanding that you are in a bad mood from these things that are not your family's fault and you don't need to take it out on the spouse or the dog or the cat. If you're worried about some challenge the family is facing, and you know your spouse is worried too, you don't look to your spouse to constantly assure you that things are OK; you bear this burden together. So it's not always going to be about emotional openness, but it is always going to be about self-insight. You have to understand what your feelings even are, before anything else. Training a toddler to convert pain into anger is a huge step backward here.
I think the first step for any person, male or female, to understand "what am I feeling right now." The second step is to consider whether and how to express these. Sometimes we don't get much choice about how we express our feelings but sometimes we do. So for instance, if you've had a bad day at work and a terrible commute home, you walk in the house understanding that you are in a bad mood from these things that are not your family's fault and you don't need to take it out on the spouse or the dog or the cat. If you're worried about some challenge the family is facing, and you know your spouse is worried too, you don't look to your spouse to constantly assure you that things are OK; you bear this burden together. So it's not always going to be about emotional openness, but it is always going to be about self-insight. You have to understand what your feelings even are, before anything else. Training a toddler to convert pain into anger is a huge step backward here.
Fascinating article. Years ago I had an epiphany - that many men are afraid of women for having the power to make them miserable - a power that comes from women saying "No" or "No more." And that fear is easily translated into anger and resentment against women. Of course men have the power to make women miserable too, but since men are typically the ones to go out on a limb to approach the opposite sex, women are seen as the ones sawing off the limb. Women are also better able to process the emotions of rejection, often with the help of female friends. I am speaking in generalizations, of course, but I believe they are useful generalizations and I am glad such themes are being explored in college classes.
7
Women handle rejection TERRIBLY. They just dont experience it alot. 99% of rejections men are exposed to, 1% for women, and when they are, they become harpies.
1
Men are afraid women will laugh at them.
Women are afraid men will kill them.
You'd think after all this time men (at least heterosexual ones in the US) would get that being rejected by a potential mate is actually not personal and that she's not the only fish in the sea. Maybe it's a sign that men are just incapable of evolving?
Women are afraid men will kill them.
You'd think after all this time men (at least heterosexual ones in the US) would get that being rejected by a potential mate is actually not personal and that she's not the only fish in the sea. Maybe it's a sign that men are just incapable of evolving?
2
Thor, I was never asked out when I was in high school, not even once. Not even just once. I was the wallflower at dances. Skinny, not pretty, and too smart, and the boys determinedly passed me by. If you had told me then that I didn't experience rejection a lot I would have thought you had completely lost your mind. (In college I had a few dates, then met the man I married in 1982. We're still very happy together.)
1
At least when Lerner and Loewe had Prof. Higgins in "My Fair "Lady" sing," Why can't a woman be more like a man?" they had the grace to be ironic about Higgins's obliviousness. Reiner reverses the question, but with no trace of irony.
2
You just made my day!
This article reminded me of how much I loved the book "The Courage to Raise Good Men", by Olga Silverstein and Beth Rashbaum, which advocates letting boys be fully-rounded humans, rather than forcing them to be little men. However, raising my son that way made it difficult for him to fit in with most other boys at school.
My experience growing up was probably similar to that of many boys, because my mother played twisted gender games with us. I was not allowed to cry- ever. Whether it was pain, sadness, or fear, there was no reasonable cause for me to cry, and I was shamed and told I was a baby or too ugly when I cried. My brothers, by contrast, had no restrictions on their crying, and they grew up much more attuned to their emotions. I completely lost contact with what I felt about anything, except that shame was a constant companion. I only had explanations of what I thought about things, and it crippled my relationships with other people. You can't quash someone's "bad" emotions and then expect them to have normal "good" emotions; it just doesn't work that way. When certain emotions are disallowed, the full spectrum of emotional experience is altered.
I can't speak for men, but if my experience is akin to theirs, I can't recommend it.
My experience growing up was probably similar to that of many boys, because my mother played twisted gender games with us. I was not allowed to cry- ever. Whether it was pain, sadness, or fear, there was no reasonable cause for me to cry, and I was shamed and told I was a baby or too ugly when I cried. My brothers, by contrast, had no restrictions on their crying, and they grew up much more attuned to their emotions. I completely lost contact with what I felt about anything, except that shame was a constant companion. I only had explanations of what I thought about things, and it crippled my relationships with other people. You can't quash someone's "bad" emotions and then expect them to have normal "good" emotions; it just doesn't work that way. When certain emotions are disallowed, the full spectrum of emotional experience is altered.
I can't speak for men, but if my experience is akin to theirs, I can't recommend it.
16
@ Some Woman '...rather than forcing them to be little men...'
But they are 'little men'.
'...However, raising my son that way made it difficult for him to fit in with most other boys at school...'
A child is not a science experiment and needs to fit into this world, not some imaginary world filled with rainbows and kittens.
But they are 'little men'.
'...However, raising my son that way made it difficult for him to fit in with most other boys at school...'
A child is not a science experiment and needs to fit into this world, not some imaginary world filled with rainbows and kittens.
1
At 67 I still enjoy my generational dance of male/female, but thanks to paying attention to shifting cultural notions of what it means to be a man I am glad I don't have to be the guy I thought I was going to have to be in Jr. High.
11
Does the study, which found the percentage of men who go on to college versus women, consider the percentage of men who go into manual labor and make high salaries in jobs that women are found incapable of or discouraged from doing?
4
The problem with these feminist critiques of masculinity is that they are never grounded in the theory of evolution. If you accept evolution, then you must accept that men and women are both the way they are because of natural and sexual selection. In other words, we are the decedents of those who survived and had children. That implies that the alternative men (less traditionally masculine men) either were not desired by women or were selected out by the environment. In this respect, the advice to men to get in touch with their feelings may be a sure way for men to remove themselves from the consideration of women who want to have children -- the women who most need men.
19
That assumes that gender attitudes are the simple product of evolution and not socialization. The evidence in the article that young boys do tend to show more emotion, and the vast differences in the level of acceptable emotion in men across cultures, suggests that it is (at least to a large degree) cultural rather than biological. Culture can change, it's not evolutionarily innate.
6
BBB, men can be tough and be connected to their emotions. The current movement often excludes the "be tough" part unfortunately.
1
Wrong. Much of what people and their societies are is shaped by culture, by learning, by socialization and by arbitrariness rather than evolution. Evolution, yes, shapes the physical organism, the physiology --- it doe snot shape the contents of the mind or behavior that are societally taught and learned.
Men are taught to be violent. They can also be taught to be peaceable.
Men are taught to be violent. They can also be taught to be peaceable.
2
Last I checked, I had just as many wonderful male relatives and friends as female relatives and friends. How about we start celebrating masculine traits as much as we celebrate feminine traits? Just about everyone does this in the personal sphere.
15
It seems like the author arrogantly assumes he knows how men should be and want to stuff them in his box instead of the ordinary one. If you want to study men please do it honestly, without ideological presuppositions.
11
"...tough-guy stereotypes die hard."
especially in a war zone or a dog-eat-dog business world where only the tough survive and dead men tell no tales. better to earn your man card than to have you and your family taken advantage of or killed. this reasoning has changed only a little since the 18th century.
you can't have gentlemen without a civil society.
especially in a war zone or a dog-eat-dog business world where only the tough survive and dead men tell no tales. better to earn your man card than to have you and your family taken advantage of or killed. this reasoning has changed only a little since the 18th century.
you can't have gentlemen without a civil society.
5
A very, very good argument for allowing the other half the planet to participate in at least a full half of the business (and political) world.
2
but both halves want to participate, and men tend to be more ruthless about squeezing out the male and female competition, using deception (emotional dishonesty) if necessary.
i am all for a kinder, gentler world, especially one run fairly by the fairer sex, but i never expect utopia. violence, greed and evil remain, and even more disturbingly can get worse in cases of revolution and civil breakdown.
i am all for a kinder, gentler world, especially one run fairly by the fairer sex, but i never expect utopia. violence, greed and evil remain, and even more disturbingly can get worse in cases of revolution and civil breakdown.
5
Agreed. And I don't believe most men can be emotionally honest, or should be. If I were to be honest I would show more anger at many times and certainly be more aggressive. To make the world a little better we need to continue the feminist push for equality. That is an imperative. The shift in our country towards denying women reproductive choices is frightening. Men telling women what they should do and for whom they should vote to make regressive change is so frustrating. Please carry on the dialog.
Oh, Please!...Emotionally honest?! While we all have our individual experiences, in my sixty three years, I've been as honest as possible with three gals I truly loved! I gave them my true story, and the flowers and my heart! Always trying to take them to the next level! All, as one would find, as sweet as can be! And you know, none of it worked! Once they realized my Bank account, it was the highway for them! The older I get, the more I realize Leo Durocher was right! Sorry.
6
You're the perfect example of how men experience intimacy as described in the article.
"As women surpass men on campus, the threat felt by thin-skinned males often reveals itself in the relationships where they feel most exposed. “Boys are not only more invested in ongoing romantic relationships but also have less confidence navigating them than do girls,” writes the sociologist Robin W. Simon in The Journal of Health and Social Behavior. That’s problematic, because “romantic partners are their primary sources of intimacy,” whereas young women confide in friends and family."
"As women surpass men on campus, the threat felt by thin-skinned males often reveals itself in the relationships where they feel most exposed. “Boys are not only more invested in ongoing romantic relationships but also have less confidence navigating them than do girls,” writes the sociologist Robin W. Simon in The Journal of Health and Social Behavior. That’s problematic, because “romantic partners are their primary sources of intimacy,” whereas young women confide in friends and family."
6
As women are boosted past men on campus you mean. They never surpassed. They just got 100% of the help, and the state discriminated on their behalf.
1
While I applaud any effort to improve the standing of boys (and males in general) in society, I can't get support an effort which starts with the premise that somehow boys are broken. When we saw that girls were trailing boys back in the day, we didn't begin the conversation by saying that girls were broken (well perhaps some did - but I'm guessing that those people who said those things would be looked upon as backward misogynists today). Masculinity isn't a pathology. Boys aren't broken. A society that treats them as broken girls is. More likely, history will look at this time - and the last 30+ years - as a time when society turned its back on boys and that a certain number of them acted out in defiance and rebellion (which lead to school shootings, etc). A better take on the issue was presented by Christina Hoff Sommers a couple of years ago. I would suggest reading her words (along with the references to real research provided): http://time.com/2974/masculinity-is-more-than-a-mask/
19
This article is far from suggesting that boys are inherently broken. Rather, it is saying that the way that society often treats men and the way that parents raise boys (encouraging an expression of anger in order to cope with actually wanting to cry) is what's broken. This article isn't saying that men are naturally broken - the way we (as a society and a culture) are nurturing men is broken!
It simply can't be healthy to tell a small boy to stop expressing his sadness and to pound his chest in anger instead. That is invalidating, at best. All this results in is men shutting down to how they actually feel, and having angry outbursts to cope with the pent up emotions that they don't understand, let alone that they don't feel comfortable confiding in their male friends, so they repress the things they actually want to talk about...
It simply can't be healthy to tell a small boy to stop expressing his sadness and to pound his chest in anger instead. That is invalidating, at best. All this results in is men shutting down to how they actually feel, and having angry outbursts to cope with the pent up emotions that they don't understand, let alone that they don't feel comfortable confiding in their male friends, so they repress the things they actually want to talk about...
2
This is going to be fun:
Grew up in the 1940's and 50's.
Knew there was something wrong -- but, too young to begin to understand. After school, often headed to the hills behind our home -- there was too much meanness in the air . . . even then.
Started hitch-hiking around the world in mid-1960's (since then, total: 97 countries) -- and, couldn't believe how much more 'human' were men -- even in much of Europe -- but, especially in many third-world societies (above-all, in their villages). If you want to see Heart-Centered males, go there: (Bali, Northern Laos, West Africa, Latin American Indian villages) listen to their sweet voices . . . see the peace-full smile in their eyes . . . see how gentle they are with the very young.
As a monk quoting an Avatar, here is one way to say the Ideal . . . for men, and, for women:
"What is it that people need today? These are three things: A heart pure like the moon . . . speech soft and sweet like butter . . . a face that is loving and kind.
Today, on the contrary, people are hardhearted... There is harshness in speech . . . and, no softness in their hearts.
Fill your hearts with compassion. Let your speech be sweet and truthful. You will then be truly human."
Grew up in the 1940's and 50's.
Knew there was something wrong -- but, too young to begin to understand. After school, often headed to the hills behind our home -- there was too much meanness in the air . . . even then.
Started hitch-hiking around the world in mid-1960's (since then, total: 97 countries) -- and, couldn't believe how much more 'human' were men -- even in much of Europe -- but, especially in many third-world societies (above-all, in their villages). If you want to see Heart-Centered males, go there: (Bali, Northern Laos, West Africa, Latin American Indian villages) listen to their sweet voices . . . see the peace-full smile in their eyes . . . see how gentle they are with the very young.
As a monk quoting an Avatar, here is one way to say the Ideal . . . for men, and, for women:
"What is it that people need today? These are three things: A heart pure like the moon . . . speech soft and sweet like butter . . . a face that is loving and kind.
Today, on the contrary, people are hardhearted... There is harshness in speech . . . and, no softness in their hearts.
Fill your hearts with compassion. Let your speech be sweet and truthful. You will then be truly human."
36
Beautifully put. Toward Heart centered is the evolutionary path we're on. Or at least should be on. Thank you.
Perhaps reading more books is the answer. There's hundreds of years of literature of men expressing their feelings. I actually grew up a very self confident woman from reading so many books of men deifying women (Goethe, Catullus, Mishima). I think anyone from Byron to Stendhal could explain to you the depth of male emotion.
While the ancient Greeks spent a lot of energy trying to figure out what it means to be a "good man", I think that only in the 20th century are there so many novels about what it means to be "a man". From Hemingway to David Foster Wallace to Catcher In The Rye. And OMG Karl Ove Knausgaard, who has such deep issues with with modern masculinity that it took like 3600 pages to untangle them.
So for any guy struggling with his masculinity at present, there's so many books from the last 100 years that have mined this territory for you. And for any guy struggling with his emotions, you have literally hundreds of years of literature to guide you. In addition, science shows that reading makes people more empathetic. So, perhaps more reading is in order.
While the ancient Greeks spent a lot of energy trying to figure out what it means to be a "good man", I think that only in the 20th century are there so many novels about what it means to be "a man". From Hemingway to David Foster Wallace to Catcher In The Rye. And OMG Karl Ove Knausgaard, who has such deep issues with with modern masculinity that it took like 3600 pages to untangle them.
So for any guy struggling with his masculinity at present, there's so many books from the last 100 years that have mined this territory for you. And for any guy struggling with his emotions, you have literally hundreds of years of literature to guide you. In addition, science shows that reading makes people more empathetic. So, perhaps more reading is in order.
16
At last, an article about boys and men that tells it like it is and doesn't fall into the stereotypical distortions it criticizes.
Your remarks about the hostility that often greets any suggestion that boys and men need help in connecting with their own humanity are only too accurate.
Your remarks about the hostility that often greets any suggestion that boys and men need help in connecting with their own humanity are only too accurate.
16
Hmm, another piece on how male behavior is wrong. Your citations do not support the case you build either.
14
Great exploration of how we train men not to appear to be vulnerable. I remember seeing a photo of a young boy whose father was branding a steer. The boy looked so upset - and I thought "this is how we train it out of the - he's being told not to cry". It helped me understand how boys - and then men - become divorced from their own feelings. So sad, and such serious consequences for us all.
11
Men and women in America have long been socialized to their greatest vulnerabilities rather than their strengths. Men are taught to deny their feelings so that they can pick up a gun and go to war and kill another man...you don't want a male who is in touch with his feelings because that type of man is not a dependable killer. Women are socialized to their sexuality which will abandon them too soon before they have a career.
It has always been thus, says the philosopher, along with those of us who have been on the planet for a lifetime of observation and reading.
We are set up to be tripped up by our own greatest weaknesses, in a sense, our less sustaining and less enriching aspects run the show.
Now I'd like for things to be different but then when I read Homer's Odyssey I see we haven't changed a bit in 2000 years... Achilles is still in the Underworld declaring it would be "better to be a slave than a hero who is dead."
Alas we don't listen. Maslow postulated that only 2% of any population is self-actualizing. Whether 2% of us will ever be a Tipping Point, changing gender structures for good, it's hard to know.
Based on history it's hard to be cautiously optimistic and still keep my intellectual self respect, but perhaps, here and there, we will find progress.
It has always been thus, says the philosopher, along with those of us who have been on the planet for a lifetime of observation and reading.
We are set up to be tripped up by our own greatest weaknesses, in a sense, our less sustaining and less enriching aspects run the show.
Now I'd like for things to be different but then when I read Homer's Odyssey I see we haven't changed a bit in 2000 years... Achilles is still in the Underworld declaring it would be "better to be a slave than a hero who is dead."
Alas we don't listen. Maslow postulated that only 2% of any population is self-actualizing. Whether 2% of us will ever be a Tipping Point, changing gender structures for good, it's hard to know.
Based on history it's hard to be cautiously optimistic and still keep my intellectual self respect, but perhaps, here and there, we will find progress.
5
Not a dependable protector would be more accurate. Not too long ago, killing was essential for survival.
1
Why is being overwrought, emotional, needy, and hormonal somehow superior characteristics for a man?
13
Why do grownups still insist on using "straw man" arguments?
17
M, you do realize you're making the author's point, don't you?
10
But none of these things are only characteristics of women, but of everyone. I know plenty of men who are needy, emotional, hormonal, and overwrought. Some people just express it differently, in a way that doesn't appear emotional to you, like having an angry tantrum, being irritable, or sulking alone. None of these are necessarily superior or inferior, but if any of this is leading to suicide, homicide, and other dangerous behaviors, we need to discuss what it means to emotionally healthy, for both men and women.
3
So many objections based on the "evolutionary" argument that women select the most traditionally masculine men for sex. Let's set aside all the indignation and outrage that women "get to make that decision" - because, no, guys, you have zero right to have sex with someone who does not want to have sex with you, and you are not oppressed just because you can't demand time, attention and sexual favors from any "unclaimed" woman your eye lands on.
Even then, what world do you guys live in? It's as though you were raised on an all-boy island until you were seventeen and then were you ushered into the presence of hundreds of nubile virgin girls where you competed with the other boys in feats of strength and daring to win the prettiest as concubines. Does it ever occur to you that our social lives as humans are complex and that gender is not just about sex?
No, probably not. Listen guys, girls too go through this phase in their teens and early twenties - sex-obsessed, libidinous, endlessly self-absorbed, insecure, desperate for validation of their sexual appeal, constantly aggrieved.... but a man who has not grown out of this by his thirties and forties is a really sad spectacle.
And no, he's probably not having a lot of sex either.
Even then, what world do you guys live in? It's as though you were raised on an all-boy island until you were seventeen and then were you ushered into the presence of hundreds of nubile virgin girls where you competed with the other boys in feats of strength and daring to win the prettiest as concubines. Does it ever occur to you that our social lives as humans are complex and that gender is not just about sex?
No, probably not. Listen guys, girls too go through this phase in their teens and early twenties - sex-obsessed, libidinous, endlessly self-absorbed, insecure, desperate for validation of their sexual appeal, constantly aggrieved.... but a man who has not grown out of this by his thirties and forties is a really sad spectacle.
And no, he's probably not having a lot of sex either.
24
This is SUCH a good takedown. Thank you!!
Excellent!!! Totally great response.
I'm a tall woman, and the two most splendid I had relationships were (are) with men who were shorter, kind, and motherly.
Very manly, very sweet, every independent. Care takers, both of them.
Very physical also: one a rock climber, the other a runner.
To me, that's the essence of manliness. They should run an academy.
Very manly, very sweet, every independent. Care takers, both of them.
Very physical also: one a rock climber, the other a runner.
To me, that's the essence of manliness. They should run an academy.
10
What about those who are not in college?
2
O brave new world,
That has such people in 't!
That has such people in 't!
I can only imagine the drivel being taught in this class. Emotional and physical toughness should always be valued and taught to men and women.
The male and female whiners and complainers who expect to live a full life without getting their feelings hurt are damaging our culture.
The male and female whiners and complainers who expect to live a full life without getting their feelings hurt are damaging our culture.
22
A seminar (what 12 - 15 students?) in which only 20% of the students are male - I think the title of the article is a little misleading. The impact... even less.
10
'Emotion' has negative connotations in our society. Especially when it comes to leaders and the like. Emotions are to be reined in not only by boys/men, but for girls/women as well.
I am 'emotional.' I have considered this a deficit more often than not -- although my opinion is evolving. Emotion does not (necessarily) preclude reason. Emotion often is a gut check, an instinctual response that rounds out decision making, enriches life, deepens connections.
As the mother of three boys (young men now), I know that our truest moments together have always included emotion. Opening up. Going there.
Everyday I hope my sons have a place to go to be themselves, feelings and all.
I am 'emotional.' I have considered this a deficit more often than not -- although my opinion is evolving. Emotion does not (necessarily) preclude reason. Emotion often is a gut check, an instinctual response that rounds out decision making, enriches life, deepens connections.
As the mother of three boys (young men now), I know that our truest moments together have always included emotion. Opening up. Going there.
Everyday I hope my sons have a place to go to be themselves, feelings and all.
16
"Male/Female" distinguishes sexual reproduction equipment--sperm/ova production and delivery. Hermaphrodites have both.
"Masculine/feminine" distinguishes art forms enhancing sexplay--orgasmic play. Birth control techniques aim at separating the two. They overlap as a bell curve-spectrum--hardly a dichotomy: Small numbers of ultra masculine males (football players) at one end, ultra feminine females (super models) at the other end. In between are feminine males and masculine females--the average (mean)
masculine-males/feminine females are the majority (mode) as well as the median..
Homosexuals have male/female reproductive equipment but the sexplay orientation typical of the "opposite" sex. Thus in one way they are masculine females or feminine males; but they may be ultra masculine or feminine in most other ways.
“What you don’t get right is that girls are into hooking up as much as we are; they come on to us, too,” The problem here--and with the entire essay--is quantifiers. If "us/them" is all males/females? It's nonsense. Sexplay drive is distributed on a bell curve too--for both heteros and homos.
An online search for "escorts" in your area will prove--there are many women 18 to 38 who are indeed into hooking up--for cash. And many more into hooking up for free--more or less.
Others want more or less serial monogamy.
Bell curves apply to criers too and the whole range of emotions.
Normal/abnormal as healthy/unhealthy also covers all the variations.
"Masculine/feminine" distinguishes art forms enhancing sexplay--orgasmic play. Birth control techniques aim at separating the two. They overlap as a bell curve-spectrum--hardly a dichotomy: Small numbers of ultra masculine males (football players) at one end, ultra feminine females (super models) at the other end. In between are feminine males and masculine females--the average (mean)
masculine-males/feminine females are the majority (mode) as well as the median..
Homosexuals have male/female reproductive equipment but the sexplay orientation typical of the "opposite" sex. Thus in one way they are masculine females or feminine males; but they may be ultra masculine or feminine in most other ways.
“What you don’t get right is that girls are into hooking up as much as we are; they come on to us, too,” The problem here--and with the entire essay--is quantifiers. If "us/them" is all males/females? It's nonsense. Sexplay drive is distributed on a bell curve too--for both heteros and homos.
An online search for "escorts" in your area will prove--there are many women 18 to 38 who are indeed into hooking up--for cash. And many more into hooking up for free--more or less.
Others want more or less serial monogamy.
Bell curves apply to criers too and the whole range of emotions.
Normal/abnormal as healthy/unhealthy also covers all the variations.
5
"“What you don’t get right is that girls are into hooking up as much as we are; they come on to us, too,” The problem here--and with the entire essay--is quantifiers. If "us/them" is all males/females? It's nonsense. Sexplay drive is distributed on a bell curve too--for both heteros and homos."
Knowing what I know of Dr. Kimmel, I'm not at all surprised that all he did was shake his head when presented with an argument with which he didn't agree. He and his ilk (e.g. feminists/neo-marxists) suffer from a disease of over-generalization. Their arguments rest on an ideology of maleness/masculinity=evil or bad or broken because a tiny-tiny minority of men do bad things. And if you don't see their POV, you are part of the problem. They hang their arguments on "neat sounding" pseudoscience that is more often than not cherry picked from the literature and they try to generalize these cherry picked statistics to fit their ideology. That is not how real scientists work. Future generations (who I believe will embrace scientific rigor to explain the world) will look back on these people and see them for what they are: secular-religious fanatics selling an ideology as porous as any fundamentalist Christian's.
Knowing what I know of Dr. Kimmel, I'm not at all surprised that all he did was shake his head when presented with an argument with which he didn't agree. He and his ilk (e.g. feminists/neo-marxists) suffer from a disease of over-generalization. Their arguments rest on an ideology of maleness/masculinity=evil or bad or broken because a tiny-tiny minority of men do bad things. And if you don't see their POV, you are part of the problem. They hang their arguments on "neat sounding" pseudoscience that is more often than not cherry picked from the literature and they try to generalize these cherry picked statistics to fit their ideology. That is not how real scientists work. Future generations (who I believe will embrace scientific rigor to explain the world) will look back on these people and see them for what they are: secular-religious fanatics selling an ideology as porous as any fundamentalist Christian's.
8
The last line speaks volumes about the one failure of feminism- we never taught our boys how to reframe who they are and what it means to be a man in response to the changes we fought for, for our daughters. As a single mother by choice to small boy, I see myself as the nth stage of this sea change our culture is facing. I am well-educated, I have a well-paying career, I own my own home, and I found a way to motherhood without the benefit of a husband. But the one thing I would like a man for, grown-up emotional companionship and kindness, is the one thing none of my single male peers seem to have a clue how to be. Instead, single men my age (mid-40s) look at me and don't know what to offer. I feel my number one responsibility as a mom is to raise my son to be an emotionally competent man, but I struggle to find male role models for him who fit that description. If we do not face this cultural shift head on, my story will be the natural end result for more and more of those smart, capable girls in college, who already out-number their male peers by 50 percent. My heart breaks for them, as it does for the boys who will become ever more adrift in a society that doesn't know how to tell them who to be.
26
Well most of the problem stems from women trying to change boys into girls.
11
"I feel my number one responsibility as a mom is to raise my son to be an emotionally competent man, but I struggle to find male role models for him who fit that description."
As a father, my number one responsibility is to raise my children to be competent adults. Slightly different perspective, but maybe it will help you see men in a different light.
As a father, my number one responsibility is to raise my children to be competent adults. Slightly different perspective, but maybe it will help you see men in a different light.
5
Where do you get that point of view from? And in what way do you think this is happening?
A bit like the World Series, this article is an American phenomenon calling itself a global phenomenon. The narrow gender identity described here doesn't really exist in comparable form in Europe (where I live), for example. That very fact is proof that the characteristics the author describes are socialised, not essential. Of course, this identity also isn't shared among any of the American males that are my friends. The comments here that essentialise it as a problem of gender are therefore way off the mark. Indeed it's hard to imagine a sentence beginning "men are..." or "women are..." that wouldn't be nonsense at best, part of the problem at worst. Yet I've watched campus policy, gender discourse, and mainstream reportage in the US go off the deep end as this limited cultural problem is treated as biologically endemic. They anathematise (or criminalise!) ordinary behaviour in the censure of extremes. There's another article up today about how voter-ID policies are a destructive solution to a negligible problem. Perhaps these "gender-issues" discussions should be regarded in the same way?
7
Teaching men that controlling their emotions so they can act decisively at moments of fear and or pain is "toxic masculinity" is part of the progressive march toward a post-gender, post procreative society.
Since societies like these will yield spectacularly low birth rates overtime, I'd advise reactionaries horrified by articles like this to simply wait it all out.
There are no examples in human history of enduring societies that featured so-called "emotionally-intelligent" men. Look at Western Europe where ever more feminized men and masculinized women are busily doing the progressive work of going extinct.
The whole purpose of a binary human sexual and gender dynamic, now busily being deconstructed in the West, was to ensure that the traits needed for a society to survive are spread out between the sexes. There is no doubt that men learning to be essentially more like women (yes the 6 month olds were emotional--that's not the point) will be a boon for their individual well being. Feeling physical pain or fear and "processing" that will be easier and less stressful.
But masculinity, far more than femininity, is a social construct. In the long-accepted societal teaching of men emotional discipline, in order to allow them to convert pain or frustration into action rather than reflection, men did lose--but society benefitted. If all it did was create wall-punchers and class bullies, such a core societal teaching would have gone by the evolutionary wayside long ago.
Since societies like these will yield spectacularly low birth rates overtime, I'd advise reactionaries horrified by articles like this to simply wait it all out.
There are no examples in human history of enduring societies that featured so-called "emotionally-intelligent" men. Look at Western Europe where ever more feminized men and masculinized women are busily doing the progressive work of going extinct.
The whole purpose of a binary human sexual and gender dynamic, now busily being deconstructed in the West, was to ensure that the traits needed for a society to survive are spread out between the sexes. There is no doubt that men learning to be essentially more like women (yes the 6 month olds were emotional--that's not the point) will be a boon for their individual well being. Feeling physical pain or fear and "processing" that will be easier and less stressful.
But masculinity, far more than femininity, is a social construct. In the long-accepted societal teaching of men emotional discipline, in order to allow them to convert pain or frustration into action rather than reflection, men did lose--but society benefitted. If all it did was create wall-punchers and class bullies, such a core societal teaching would have gone by the evolutionary wayside long ago.
13
Well put!
"But masculinity, far more than femininity, is a social construct. In the long-accepted societal teaching of men emotional discipline, in order to allow them to convert pain or frustration into action rather than reflection, men did lose--but society benefitted. If all it did was create wall-punchers and class bullies, such a core societal teaching would have gone by the evolutionary wayside long ago."
"But masculinity, far more than femininity, is a social construct. In the long-accepted societal teaching of men emotional discipline, in order to allow them to convert pain or frustration into action rather than reflection, men did lose--but society benefitted. If all it did was create wall-punchers and class bullies, such a core societal teaching would have gone by the evolutionary wayside long ago."
Kari, that's not very supportive or understanding. I think you're engaging in some rather toxic femininity.
And glad you read with such care before replying.
Indeed it would seem that NOT having to control one's emotions in order to calmly convert them to action--what was once known as "grace under pressure" before it became known as "toxic masculinity" is hardly a position of privilege--it is sacrifice for the greater good.
And glad you read with such care before replying.
Indeed it would seem that NOT having to control one's emotions in order to calmly convert them to action--what was once known as "grace under pressure" before it became known as "toxic masculinity" is hardly a position of privilege--it is sacrifice for the greater good.
4
@ Roger
Most of the people who will insist that men 'need to be more like women' are women and they are the very ones who will run to hide behind men when danger approaches.
But then I seem to be in the minority of women who loves men, loves that the vast majority of men will try to protect even women who are not family members.
And some have died doing so:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/04/us/san-bernardino-shooting-hero/
(As if any female coworker would do that for someone sitting in the next cubicle.)
I do not understand all the male bashing, as most men are wonderful and kind to women and those who are not, just stay away from, not so very hard to do in this country.
Most of the people who will insist that men 'need to be more like women' are women and they are the very ones who will run to hide behind men when danger approaches.
But then I seem to be in the minority of women who loves men, loves that the vast majority of men will try to protect even women who are not family members.
And some have died doing so:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/04/us/san-bernardino-shooting-hero/
(As if any female coworker would do that for someone sitting in the next cubicle.)
I do not understand all the male bashing, as most men are wonderful and kind to women and those who are not, just stay away from, not so very hard to do in this country.
8
Readers,
As a student at an all boys catholic high school I see far to often how my fellow students are reluctant to open up to counselors, teachers, and even other students. This article put into words what I never could. The idea that men have to be this "Man of Steel" unwilling to accept help from others or even ask for help themselves. After reading this article I realize that I have fallen victim to this stereotype myself. I recall earlier this year feeling anxious and even embarrassed about getting an older AP student to help me review for my chemistry test because I felt that if I allowed someone else to hep my then I would have let myself down. I realize after reading this article that accepting and asking for help from other is not something to be embarrassed about. Infant I am not embarrassed that I didn't ask for help.
As a student at an all boys catholic high school I see far to often how my fellow students are reluctant to open up to counselors, teachers, and even other students. This article put into words what I never could. The idea that men have to be this "Man of Steel" unwilling to accept help from others or even ask for help themselves. After reading this article I realize that I have fallen victim to this stereotype myself. I recall earlier this year feeling anxious and even embarrassed about getting an older AP student to help me review for my chemistry test because I felt that if I allowed someone else to hep my then I would have let myself down. I realize after reading this article that accepting and asking for help from other is not something to be embarrassed about. Infant I am not embarrassed that I didn't ask for help.
18
I disagree with a number of concepts in this article. The biggest issue which doesn't make sense is that men are not doing well in college because of their macho / reluctance to be emotional. If that were the case how does one explain that men were much more "manly" back in the 50's with the likes of John Wayne and over the years have become less. In reality, women's success in school is independent from that of men and only reflects the lifting of restrictions that were imposed on women by men. Although we have a ways to go I believe that women will continue to do far better then their male counterparts.
3
Far better in what way?
Michael Kimmel has made a career out of denying empathy and understanding to men, promoting contempt of masculine gender identities and in erasing male voices. According to Kimmel, men aren't capable of knowing how and why they behave and identify as masculine (unless of course, they are good feminists like himself). When young women say they enjoy hook-up culture and find it empowering, people like Kimmel may react with surprise, but also with respect. When young men report the same, they are delusional. Apparently that's progressive.
The idea that masculinity is inherently worse emotionally than femininity, that masculinity is "toxic" and needs to better conform towards righteous feminine values, is grotesquely bigoted. My gender identity is not "toxic", but rather what's toxic is this calculated, professionalized sexism targeting my entire gender. For what it's worth, the masculine values that I've been "taught" have always been a source of personal strength for me, and for these values I have been rewarded in both my social and professional life, by both men and women. I'd be the first to agree that men, and especially women, should extend more empathy towards men when they express vulnerability. This is however not a problem with men's masculinity, but rather a problem with how society views men. It's sexist attitudes that need fixing, by both men and women, and not men's gender.
The idea that masculinity is inherently worse emotionally than femininity, that masculinity is "toxic" and needs to better conform towards righteous feminine values, is grotesquely bigoted. My gender identity is not "toxic", but rather what's toxic is this calculated, professionalized sexism targeting my entire gender. For what it's worth, the masculine values that I've been "taught" have always been a source of personal strength for me, and for these values I have been rewarded in both my social and professional life, by both men and women. I'd be the first to agree that men, and especially women, should extend more empathy towards men when they express vulnerability. This is however not a problem with men's masculinity, but rather a problem with how society views men. It's sexist attitudes that need fixing, by both men and women, and not men's gender.
26
Your post makes it abundantly clear that you have never read any of Michael Kimmel's books, the contents of which are nothing like you describe. Get thee to a library before you spread more uninformed ignorance. Kimmel's books, Guyland and Manhood in America, are very compassionate toward men.
Interestingly, I never hear any young women saying that they enjoy hookup culture. Instead, young women complain that young men just want no-strings-attached hookup culture sex, that young men pressure the girls for anal, blow jobs, threesomes and other porn scenarios, and that sex with the young men of porn culture is so awful that the girls have to be seriously drunk to engage in unsatisfying sex with males. Additionally, research shows that the most depressed demographic is young women, a quarter of young women (aged 16-24) have a persistent sexually-transmitted infection. And the emptiness and inhumanity of hookup culture is cited by psychologists as the reason why a third of young women are taking antidepressants.
Evolved people need love and prefer their sexual encounters to involve some genuine affection. Men, on the other hand, are happy to have anonymous sex with prostitutes, escort prostitutes, unconscious women, underage females, unconsenting women, no affection needed or desired. If anyone has empathy deficit disorder, it is the men who instituted and perpetuate hookup practice.
Interestingly, I never hear any young women saying that they enjoy hookup culture. Instead, young women complain that young men just want no-strings-attached hookup culture sex, that young men pressure the girls for anal, blow jobs, threesomes and other porn scenarios, and that sex with the young men of porn culture is so awful that the girls have to be seriously drunk to engage in unsatisfying sex with males. Additionally, research shows that the most depressed demographic is young women, a quarter of young women (aged 16-24) have a persistent sexually-transmitted infection. And the emptiness and inhumanity of hookup culture is cited by psychologists as the reason why a third of young women are taking antidepressants.
Evolved people need love and prefer their sexual encounters to involve some genuine affection. Men, on the other hand, are happy to have anonymous sex with prostitutes, escort prostitutes, unconscious women, underage females, unconsenting women, no affection needed or desired. If anyone has empathy deficit disorder, it is the men who instituted and perpetuate hookup practice.
You mean that men are better equipped emotionally for no strings attached sex?
And unbalancing the male:female ratio on college campuses has led to men needing to jump through fewer hoops to get what they want?
I am shocked. It's not like anyone could have predicted that. Wow.
And unbalancing the male:female ratio on college campuses has led to men needing to jump through fewer hoops to get what they want?
I am shocked. It's not like anyone could have predicted that. Wow.
Party time! Excellent! Been waiting for years for this info. Start teaching it to Juniors in high school.
Do please pass this on to our Department of Defense. They have come to the conclusion that they may need to re frame their test questions to find better soldiers. I say, these courses on masculinity be taught to find the best out of those who sign up. Then again in basic. Then again for extra credit, then again before they are released into the public once they are off duty and sent home.
Emotions. If you don't have a handle on them you can't do well with money, family or community at the same time. You are more than likely destroying one of them. At Fort Lewis a newly released soldier beat the mother of his child so badly 18 bones were broken in her nose alone. He was jealous. A man hit on her while she was designated driver for him and their friends to go out on a bender. In front of their child. Her friends didn't recognize her anymore. He told her to make up a story. He held her hostage.
I blame the military. An organization built by men, cobbed together by men, by these kinds of men.
The Burning Bed didn't go far enough. As women we simply must breed these kinds of men out of existence to survive. That means no mothers get a pass for raising monsters. Great article. Thank you.
Do please pass this on to our Department of Defense. They have come to the conclusion that they may need to re frame their test questions to find better soldiers. I say, these courses on masculinity be taught to find the best out of those who sign up. Then again in basic. Then again for extra credit, then again before they are released into the public once they are off duty and sent home.
Emotions. If you don't have a handle on them you can't do well with money, family or community at the same time. You are more than likely destroying one of them. At Fort Lewis a newly released soldier beat the mother of his child so badly 18 bones were broken in her nose alone. He was jealous. A man hit on her while she was designated driver for him and their friends to go out on a bender. In front of their child. Her friends didn't recognize her anymore. He told her to make up a story. He held her hostage.
I blame the military. An organization built by men, cobbed together by men, by these kinds of men.
The Burning Bed didn't go far enough. As women we simply must breed these kinds of men out of existence to survive. That means no mothers get a pass for raising monsters. Great article. Thank you.
2
As women we simply must breed these kinds of men out of existence to survive and yet women continue to willingly and intentionally have children with exactly these kinds of men.
10
The main beneficiaries of emotionally disempowered men are women. Patriarchy is a metastable system where men physically, legally, structurally and economically have dominated women for centuries. Historically, why would a woman be happy with the emotional maturation of men? Not only would men then have structural power, but they'd also me emotionally mature. For women, it has been a much better deal, in the face of male domination, to have men emotionally truncated, because then at least some amount of emotional control could be had over them.
The writer notes "But we socialize this vulnerability out of [young men]." Actually, no. *Men, not women* socialize the vulnerability out of boys. It's done by fathers, male teachers, media role models, athletic coaches and stories about what it means to grow from a boy to a man.
The difficulty of moving from a boy to a man is amplified because men are suppose to be two different things at the same time: aggressive and warrior-like in defense of spouse and tribe, as well as nurturing and loving. That is not an easy task.
There was moment back in the 1980's when men in the U.S. began to address all this, but Reagan, the Bushes and 9/11 set it all back 100 years. Going forward, it'll be guns, guts, God and glory for a while still, but in the long run, the odds would seem to favor the evolution of kinder, gentler man, whose fierceness is reserved only for rare circumstances, and not bought for profit of the 1%.
The writer notes "But we socialize this vulnerability out of [young men]." Actually, no. *Men, not women* socialize the vulnerability out of boys. It's done by fathers, male teachers, media role models, athletic coaches and stories about what it means to grow from a boy to a man.
The difficulty of moving from a boy to a man is amplified because men are suppose to be two different things at the same time: aggressive and warrior-like in defense of spouse and tribe, as well as nurturing and loving. That is not an easy task.
There was moment back in the 1980's when men in the U.S. began to address all this, but Reagan, the Bushes and 9/11 set it all back 100 years. Going forward, it'll be guns, guts, God and glory for a while still, but in the long run, the odds would seem to favor the evolution of kinder, gentler man, whose fierceness is reserved only for rare circumstances, and not bought for profit of the 1%.
4
Fierce in only very rare circumstances? You mean explosive pent up rage?
Marc A, in my thinking, I distinguish fierceness from rage. 'Fierceness' is a quality of primal energy, and doesn't imply morality one way or the other. Most folks think of 'rage' as something uncontrolled and moderately dangerous to be around.
I was once swept away in a flood in a cold river. Another time I was attacked by German Shepherd and Pit Bull dogs. Another time I sheltered an abused woman from her armed husband until police could intervene. These kind of situations call for fierceness, not rage. In my thinking, outside occupations where physically threatening situations are common, fierceness isn't a quality ordinary folks need to summon too often. But when a bear wanders into your camp and you want to survive all the experts say 'stand your ground,' then back off gently. Standing your ground in the face of an acute threat is an internal type of courage, and that is what I mean by 'fierceness' -- inner guts. The repurposing and abuse of this intrinsic male quality of 'fierceness' for warfare purposes is the genius of the abusive state, wherein the life energies of males is splattered in useless wars.
I was once swept away in a flood in a cold river. Another time I was attacked by German Shepherd and Pit Bull dogs. Another time I sheltered an abused woman from her armed husband until police could intervene. These kind of situations call for fierceness, not rage. In my thinking, outside occupations where physically threatening situations are common, fierceness isn't a quality ordinary folks need to summon too often. But when a bear wanders into your camp and you want to survive all the experts say 'stand your ground,' then back off gently. Standing your ground in the face of an acute threat is an internal type of courage, and that is what I mean by 'fierceness' -- inner guts. The repurposing and abuse of this intrinsic male quality of 'fierceness' for warfare purposes is the genius of the abusive state, wherein the life energies of males is splattered in useless wars.
2
I remember going through a transition in which grades became less important to me. But it didn't have anything to do with being cool or manly.
It came from realizing that the fear of bad grades was irrational, and conflicted to some extent with intellectual integrity. I realized that being honest and inquisitive would sometimes lead to worse performance than just giving people what they wanted, and I had to accept that outcome if I wanted my education to be about finding the truth, rather than pleasing authority figures.
Frankly, I'm skeptical of the assumption that uniformly good grades represent strength of personality. I think in many cases they may signal the lack of intellectual independence.
It came from realizing that the fear of bad grades was irrational, and conflicted to some extent with intellectual integrity. I realized that being honest and inquisitive would sometimes lead to worse performance than just giving people what they wanted, and I had to accept that outcome if I wanted my education to be about finding the truth, rather than pleasing authority figures.
Frankly, I'm skeptical of the assumption that uniformly good grades represent strength of personality. I think in many cases they may signal the lack of intellectual independence.
9
As a transgender man, I have done a lot of thinking about which parts of masculinity seem to be hormonal, and which ones are behavioral or performative. I've realized that trying to "pass" as a man in society often leads me to tamp down on my outgoingness, my sensitivity, and my emotionality. These are things I used to value about myself, and I feel a sense of loss at suppressing them.
So, take it from someone who's had to socialize himself as male midway through life: a lot of these conventions are arbitrary, and a lot of them don't help foster intimate or honest relationships. As our society becomes more aware of non-standard experiences of gender, I hope that it will become more acceptable for all people to defy such ingrained gender stereotypes.
So, take it from someone who's had to socialize himself as male midway through life: a lot of these conventions are arbitrary, and a lot of them don't help foster intimate or honest relationships. As our society becomes more aware of non-standard experiences of gender, I hope that it will become more acceptable for all people to defy such ingrained gender stereotypes.
59
Thanks for your comment, Michael. I think we can learn a lot about gender constructs from the transgender community. Your experience is interesting and I am glad you shared it here.
Prof. Reiner, Thanks so much. I have struggle with macho insensitivity all my life. I attended a technical high school, engineering college, engineering grad school, and I taught at engineering colleges. Now, I trying to become more sensitive.
One idea that hits me, is simply to start by feeling more of the TEXTURE of things in everyday life. Like right know, as I am typing this comment, I can slow down and feel the keyboard strokes, more...I can close my eyes, most any time and feel my way around...
THANKS MUCH
One idea that hits me, is simply to start by feeling more of the TEXTURE of things in everyday life. Like right know, as I am typing this comment, I can slow down and feel the keyboard strokes, more...I can close my eyes, most any time and feel my way around...
THANKS MUCH
5
NYT articles exist in separate orbits from each other even when the same web page advertises them. Would be nice to tie in this article with "Courses in Manhood for African-American Boys" which is advertised below this article; are they reaching the same conclusions or not, covering the same topics or not, at odds as to conclusions or not?
7
Excellent writing on this topic, Mr. Reiner. I love how that vaccination theme comes back around in the syringe at the end. Best wishes with your teaching from a fellow teacher.
2
reading some of the reactive comments here, I'm wondering if we've read the same article. Women are surpassing men in areas where men once dominated; young men and boys are laconic about grades; and suicide rates are higher among men. That's not just "difference"; it's unhealthy difference where none needs to be. Nowhere in this article does it suggest that murder and rape are expressions of masculinity -- such an idea is preposterous. There is not one discreet expression of masculinity (or femininity). I don't see why masculinity cannot include expressions of joy, sadness, grief, etc. or be seen in activities such as dance, writing, caregiving, hospitality, etc. I'm tired of the subtle slamming of femininity that happens when so-called defenders of men tell us that the boys will be boys, suggesting that for them to be anything else is to be woman and to be that is ludicrous.
29
I'm sorry Andrew, but you have it backwards. Women are the ones who are emotionally limited. I would also disagree with any nimber of other points you tried to make, but that would require rebutting you line by lne with the result that this comment would be longer than your article.
3
I remember the exact moment I learned how not to cry. I was probably 10-11 years old. I was at my grandpa's funeral. I didn't know him very well but what made need to cry was for the first time in my life seeing my Dad crying. I felt the constriction in my throat and I knew that I was about to sob. Then I felt I would be embarrassed to cry so I forced my sadness to stay on the inside. I think that was the last time I cried for about 16 years. It's really true that if you don't use it, you lose it. Eventually I forgot how to cry, that constriction in my throat. Then what sadness feels like. Ex-girlfriends have called me a robot. I tell them I just don't worry about things. But suppressing feelings is a dangerous game. About three years ago stress from my job, my environment, and circumstances that occurred broke me. I didn't know how to release any of my emotions, my past. Since then I've practiced meditation to begin to reconnect with my heart. Crying still remains incredibly difficult for me. I can't focus my mind on sadness long enough to experience it and then let it go. My mind finds a distraction or a rationalization about why I shouldn't be sad. It's like emotional whack-a-mole. The thought pops up and if I don't hit it down with logic my mind pulls it back on it's own. I wish that when I was a kid our society had been advanced enough to not teach boys to suppress their feelings. But we can start now, and we will succeed.
96
You're doing heroic work. I hope this leads to teaching others. Thank you.
1
I appreciated your honesty and hope you find your tears!
1
My experience is different than yours but the outcome is similar. My needs were not responded to in a very large family so I learned to distract myself from the pain and sadness. I too would like to open my heart and feel the breadth and depth of emotion. I suspect the majority of people that have grown up in this country anyway did not develop awareness of their emotions regardless of gender. Although women may be more expressive especially when they're young, society compels them to sublimate their feelings lest they be stereotyped at work and in community. If education and mental health were truly valued and supported in this country the social emotional intelligence of children would be encouraged and developed at home and in school. Our families and our culture do not have the skills to teach us. Watch the movie Inside Out. It's a start.
1
For the first time in western history a near majority of boys are being raised/have been raised in female-headed households, and in the subsequent poverty and dysfunction they tend to produce. This adult male-less environment cripples many boys during adolescence and consigns many young men to multiple attempts at constructing a male self absent a living, breathing template of same. College is too late to add what's missing in the recipe for an adult man. We're not simply women with penises.
28
This is a really interesting point! I wonder if the lack of male role models after WWII is the cause of Russia's problem with men.
3
False: The large majority of children are raised by two parents. In the US 18.9% of households are married couples with children under 18. By comparison only 7% are female-headed households with children under 18 and no husband present. (Source: Census ACS 2014) Looked at the other way, 64.7% of children under 18 are raised by married parents, while 23.1% of children are raised by a single mother. (Source: childtrends.org 2014 using Census data).
2
For some "unknown" (PC?) reasons all these types of articles and even "academic" studies when dealing with the ever-expanding list of things wrtong with (mainly Western? White?) men omit the fact that:
1) 90+% of children, boys and girls, are still raised by mothers especially in their all-important and formative first 3 years of age. (and mothers, regardless how well or even more educated than child's fathers make sure in so many ways that it will be them, mothers, not fathers who will be at-home-parent "at least for couple of years" as they and society frown down on fathers who "parasite" on their wives by being or demanding to be at-home-Dads)
2) Mothers who dispense family money (80% of all American household $$$ are being spent by women, thus commercials are aimed mostly at them, where the $$$ is) have more time with kids even in after child's age of 3
yet it is still acceptable and PC to blame "patriarchal society" or culture doing wrong in raising boys (and girls).
Feminists & Co. who defend "men-free" households are hard in producing evidence that "father-free" households raise kids, boys and girls, as well as "traditional" families with an oppressive male father ... yet they shy away from the above mentioned statistics, i.e. women, mothers being with kids in their formative 0-3 years almost exclusively and later on again in majority of cases.
1) 90+% of children, boys and girls, are still raised by mothers especially in their all-important and formative first 3 years of age. (and mothers, regardless how well or even more educated than child's fathers make sure in so many ways that it will be them, mothers, not fathers who will be at-home-parent "at least for couple of years" as they and society frown down on fathers who "parasite" on their wives by being or demanding to be at-home-Dads)
2) Mothers who dispense family money (80% of all American household $$$ are being spent by women, thus commercials are aimed mostly at them, where the $$$ is) have more time with kids even in after child's age of 3
yet it is still acceptable and PC to blame "patriarchal society" or culture doing wrong in raising boys (and girls).
Feminists & Co. who defend "men-free" households are hard in producing evidence that "father-free" households raise kids, boys and girls, as well as "traditional" families with an oppressive male father ... yet they shy away from the above mentioned statistics, i.e. women, mothers being with kids in their formative 0-3 years almost exclusively and later on again in majority of cases.
Isn't the cultural manipulation of mens' emotions all about the expectation that men be able to serve in the military? After all, killing for power is a lot harder when you experience the natural sense of connectivity between yourself and the world around (and within) you.
13
start with testosterone - recent reading that testosterone masks males ability to read emotions - why don't they show emotion ? maybe because it's actually difficult for them physiologically.
some years ago I saw where a female - wondering what it was with males' pushy sex drive - females aren't like that - volunteered to be injected with testosterone - and suddenly reported feeling like she wanted to have sex with every random stranger walking down the street and went 'wow - this must be what's it's like to be male !'
fear - yeah I've sat in a lunchroom with 5 Indian male colleagues - where the loudest sound has been chewing noises - they seem to have been raised to fear revealing personal details which might be used against them in a competitive society
so I prefer the company of females - as a male, I think my blood type (A?) is associated with 'prefer talking with females' - as I've always done - males knocking things over for fun, kicking balls, holds no interest for me - females chatting together - about relationships, food, arranging social events, that's my idea of a good time.
some years ago I saw where a female - wondering what it was with males' pushy sex drive - females aren't like that - volunteered to be injected with testosterone - and suddenly reported feeling like she wanted to have sex with every random stranger walking down the street and went 'wow - this must be what's it's like to be male !'
fear - yeah I've sat in a lunchroom with 5 Indian male colleagues - where the loudest sound has been chewing noises - they seem to have been raised to fear revealing personal details which might be used against them in a competitive society
so I prefer the company of females - as a male, I think my blood type (A?) is associated with 'prefer talking with females' - as I've always done - males knocking things over for fun, kicking balls, holds no interest for me - females chatting together - about relationships, food, arranging social events, that's my idea of a good time.
2
Everyone needs more emotional honesty (men and women). They also need to be allowed to show a wider range of emotions (including frustration and anger. Further, they need to be able to discuss things like adults without the fear of repercussions. Our society is breeding unhealthy people because they are afraid of being shamed about everything.
11
It's never as simple as this author or anyone else tries to make it out to be.
It's quite a process for anyone, male or female, to learn that basic values like honesty, responsibility, kindness, caring, compassion, being supportive ... as well as the need for adult compromises ... are all part of life, are truly important and such values should actually be lived.
Men need to first learn these character traits and their importance from their parents primarily - both father and mother of course. Women too. Maybe a gender class can help in some cases, but basically we become wise over decades through self effort. We all grow up slowly it seems.
But that foundational set of values comes from our families, if that isn't there it will be a slog to mature into a healthy adult. It's a slog anyway. Everyone needs a little luck and understanding on the journey.
It's quite a process for anyone, male or female, to learn that basic values like honesty, responsibility, kindness, caring, compassion, being supportive ... as well as the need for adult compromises ... are all part of life, are truly important and such values should actually be lived.
Men need to first learn these character traits and their importance from their parents primarily - both father and mother of course. Women too. Maybe a gender class can help in some cases, but basically we become wise over decades through self effort. We all grow up slowly it seems.
But that foundational set of values comes from our families, if that isn't there it will be a slog to mature into a healthy adult. It's a slog anyway. Everyone needs a little luck and understanding on the journey.
6
Hey, so I'm an emotionally honest man. I've always cried easily. I write about how I feel. I say what's on my mind. I'm know to tell the truth rather than make up strories.
So where has it gotten me at 54? I'm unemployed, and unemployable. I am hit on by women even though I'm gay and I have panic disorder, depression and suicidal thoughts. Every day.
I wish I had that upbringing sometimes that denies feelings to men. I wish I had sublimated my anger in sports, joining the army, driving fast cars, experimenting with drugs and alcohol. I didn't do anything dangerous.
So please let men be men. Maybe there are societal benefits to supressing emotions. Maybe action is better than emotion.
So where has it gotten me at 54? I'm unemployed, and unemployable. I am hit on by women even though I'm gay and I have panic disorder, depression and suicidal thoughts. Every day.
I wish I had that upbringing sometimes that denies feelings to men. I wish I had sublimated my anger in sports, joining the army, driving fast cars, experimenting with drugs and alcohol. I didn't do anything dangerous.
So please let men be men. Maybe there are societal benefits to supressing emotions. Maybe action is better than emotion.
13
wat. i really feel for your plight, but this is an unscientific response.
your woes could be caused by factors totally unrelated to your emotional openness.
or they could be caused by the fact that you're an emotionally open and healthy man (except for the mental health issues you listed) who lives in a culture that doesn't know how to honor and respect men who are emotionally open and healthy.
your woes could be caused by factors totally unrelated to your emotional openness.
or they could be caused by the fact that you're an emotionally open and healthy man (except for the mental health issues you listed) who lives in a culture that doesn't know how to honor and respect men who are emotionally open and healthy.
14
Georges Simenon's roman durs/hard novels, one of which is "red lights," often focus on issues of masculinity. the first sentence captures some of the important ideas in this article: "He called it 'going into the tunnel,' an expression of his own, for his private use, which he never used in talking to anyone else, least of all to his wife."
While doing 20 years of spiritual work, I had a year when I cried every day. I cried in front of 40 people periodically. Very few of the men in the group I was part of cried in small group (10-15 people) or the larger group of 40 people. I see people on a spectrum of controlling emotions or being traumatized by their emotions. Neither place is good. I was on the controlling end. I see the work I did (no longer in spiritual work) as building capacity to actually feel and deal with my emotions, not acting out to get release from them either. We are not taught this by our families. We cut ourselves off from the painful emotions to get thru life and we think people are strong who do that. It is actually a position of weakness.
It was mentioned that men revert to anger when hurt, which I think can be true for men and women. It is the ultimate defense against feeling hurt, physically or emotionally. And it allows us to not acknowledge when we hurt someone else.
Emotional growth takes incredible honesty and constant inquiry and people who have mastered compassionate holding of experience. A lifelong practice in which many mistakes will be made. We learn the most from our own mistakes, mostly about forgiveness
It was mentioned that men revert to anger when hurt, which I think can be true for men and women. It is the ultimate defense against feeling hurt, physically or emotionally. And it allows us to not acknowledge when we hurt someone else.
Emotional growth takes incredible honesty and constant inquiry and people who have mastered compassionate holding of experience. A lifelong practice in which many mistakes will be made. We learn the most from our own mistakes, mostly about forgiveness
6
We could accept that boys and girls often do behave differently and that is not necessarily something that needs to be "fixed." I'm tired of reading about how toxic men are, how rape and murder are just expressions of masculinity, and how male privilege is causing untold damages to women, and how flawed men are, and how they need to be more like women in order to be happy, useful, productive members of society. Men are disproportionately affected by murder, violence, homelessless, suicide, mental illness, unemployment, and lack of education. That will not be fixed by teaching boys to cry more freely. K-12 education is increasingly dominated by female teachers - 84% in 2011 - and 25% of children are raised without fathers in the home. Boys are exposed to more feminine influence in early childhood than at nearly any time in history, and yet we stubbornly insist that they just need to be a little more sensitive, like girls, to succeed and be well-adjusted. Male-dominated fields that are dangerous and uncomfortable - mining, sanitation, construction - are not valued by women because they are "blue collar" for unedecated men, while white collar fields dominated by men - like computer science or engineering - are dismissed as patriachal because they don't attract enough women. What about accepting boys aren’t damaged goods even if they do rough house, get into fights, or have difficult sitting still? And then provide education that works as well for boys as it does for girls.
74
As the father of two "boys" who are now young men ages 18 and 21, I am pleased to hear rdayk's voice of reason. Boys and girls and men and women are different. Vive la difference. I have been deeply disturbed by the feminization of American society in recent decades, and the female dominance of teaching in pre-school through 12. As one commenter mentioned, women play a role in the promotion of classically male attributes and behaviors. When given a choice between a classically masculine man and a "sensitive" man, women will virtually always gravitate towards the former. Let's be honest. Sure women like a dollop of sensitivity a la many of the roles that Humphrey Bogart used to play, but they sure did and do love the strong masculine vibe he projects. Maybe most importantly, I see far too much negative stereotyping of men and male behaviors in this article and in the comments: "The survival kit of many middle-class, white male students: online pornography, binge drinking, a brotherhood in which respect is proportional to the disrespect heaped onto young women during hookups, and finally, the most ubiquitous affirmation of their tenuous power, video games." Are y'all living at a Trump rally?
This is clearly why man invented golf. All sorts of emotions are allowed to be on display and rarely is one rebuked for displaying them, or not.
12
As a therapist I see both men and women struggling for (and often against) emotional honesty. Tears can mean a lot of things: a genuine expression of sadness, a plea for help or rescuing, a passive-aggressive weapon and likely many other things. Culturally, we seem to be at an impasse, as men fear losing respect from men and desire from women if they were to be more emotionally expressive. Likewise, women often seem to appreciate men's less nuanced approach to emotion. Of course, then we all struggle with how much we do or don't seem to fit into our ascribed gender roles.
10
Say what you will about men's emotional intelligence but I've never seen a group of men rip to pieces someone who is supposed to be their "friend" the way women often do.
I used to think that we women were more emotionally mature, but after decades of watching men interact I've come to value their loyalty to their friends and their ability to let things go. Quite honestly, I find men far more forgiving than women. There's something to that stereotype of women hanging on to anger over offenses forever.
I used to think that we women were more emotionally mature, but after decades of watching men interact I've come to value their loyalty to their friends and their ability to let things go. Quite honestly, I find men far more forgiving than women. There's something to that stereotype of women hanging on to anger over offenses forever.
43
Insert any other sub-grouping of the population for "men" in this story and the outcry would be loud and long. This approach is offensive and assumes a basic deficit where none has been demonstrated. Diversity in emotional expression is as valuable as diversity in other arenas. Stop trying to homogenize gender.
20
Do you appreciate just how many men have no close personal friends at all?
No one is trying to "homogenize gender". Instead people are trying to address the toxic aspects of male gender role conditioning.
No one is trying to "homogenize gender". Instead people are trying to address the toxic aspects of male gender role conditioning.
17
I'm pretty sure the point of the article is that society already homogenizes gender and that boys demonstrate diversity in emotional expression at a young age but said diversity is socialized out of them over time.
17
Worse, they are not trying to 'homogenize gender', what is actually happening is that women are trying to make boys into girls and men into women, because they believe that everything male is 'bad' and everything female is 'good'.
5
Kindly notice the verbiage in last paragraph of the article. Men are mentioned twice, once as Man (as in Card) and once as men. Women in that paragraph are referred to a girls, as in "succeed as a girl." That gender imbalance says a lot about our society's relative valuation of genders.
5
There is a lot more article after that paragraph. Within the context of the article, I don't see the purpose of pointing out the gender imbalance of this statement. The entire article is about problems related to gender imbalance in the US, especially as it relates to a lack of emotional depth in men. The statement also seems to be a paraphrasing of ideas presented to the author of the article, not the author deliberately choosing to use these words to make a point.
3
Just a heads up that there's a lot more paragraphs after that one still :)
2
Really, Hooks already summed it up:
“The first act of violence that patriarchy demands of males is not violence toward women. Instead patriarchy demands of all males that they engage in acts of psychic self-mutilation, that they kill off the emotional parts of themselves. If an individual is not successful in emotionally crippling himself, he can count on patriarchal men to enact rituals of power that will assault his self-esteem.”
― bell hooks
“The first act of violence that patriarchy demands of males is not violence toward women. Instead patriarchy demands of all males that they engage in acts of psychic self-mutilation, that they kill off the emotional parts of themselves. If an individual is not successful in emotionally crippling himself, he can count on patriarchal men to enact rituals of power that will assault his self-esteem.”
― bell hooks
38
Actually, the "first act of violence" is all too often the genital mutilation ("circumcision") inflicted on newborn males.
The self-mutilation continues from there.
The self-mutilation continues from there.
6
Do you have any reason whatsoever to believe that uncircumcised males are more emotionally demonstrative? Or are you just waving it around?
5
Very good point.
Why do we simply assume that the male approach is the wrong one? Maybe we should teach women not to cry and be more emotionally resilient. There's many benefits to being able to keep cool and not get emotional. My office could certainly benefit from a more masculine approach in many respects.
25
Because study after study has shown that not acknowledging your feelings is bad in the long run--destructive to you, to society, to the economy. If we're supposed to be about individualism in the US, shouldn't that start with acknowledging what the individual feels? Or are more paternalistic, social-code societies like China and Japan what we want to be culturally?
8
I agree with the resilience. However, I don't see an issue with crying as long as it is quick and purposeful like any other emotional outlet. Male or female, I prefer those who can identify, resolve, and learn from their emotions in a manner that doesn't compromise the people around them who may not have anything to do with it. It's fine to pity yourself and outwardly express it, but life happens. Deal with it like an adult, and move forward.
3
Stress and heart attacks?
Social and emotional isolation?
Is that the "model" you thin should be promoted?
Social and emotional isolation?
Is that the "model" you thin should be promoted?
6
"...the young men who take my seminar — typically, 20 percent of the class"
I love the fact that the Algonquin Roundtable discussing 'Masculinity' are mostly women.
Guess the guys are busy with their engineering courses
I love the fact that the Algonquin Roundtable discussing 'Masculinity' are mostly women.
Guess the guys are busy with their engineering courses
23
Can't wait to see our emotionally balanced boys fight in the next war... I bet the Russians, Chinese , and Isis boys aren't brought up this way.
6
Maybe machismo and wars are related, you think?? Ironic that you jump straight to warfare as the collateral damage of more emotionally attuned men. I don't think wars will go away, but I also don't think we must have binge drinking, emotionally stunted young men to fight the ones we do need to fight. In fact I'm glad to see women in combat. Acknowledging feelings, especially in youth, does not make you weak.
5
Because Russia, China, and the Islamic State are all superb places to live?
6
Given that White American Men (in contrast to American Black men) kill themselves at 4x the rate of women, and the suicide rate of Whites in general is around 3x that of Blacks (except, interestingly for Black teenagers, where it drops to 2x that of Whites), who's going to be left to fight the wars? Black men, as we did in Vietnam? No thanks.
Ironically, an emotionally balanced man doesn't mean a coward. Black culture does nor reject emotion, despite the fact that we can be emotionally impulsive. It sustained us for the past 300 years. In fact, having an internal emotional balance might save lives not to charge heedlessly into battle just to maintain the veneer of masculinity, and allow a retreat until a more effective plan can be found to win battles. Given human nature has been fighting wars for 5,000 years or so, I doubt emotional balance is going to stop our natural tendency to wage war against each other. It might, however, drop the murder/homicide/suicide rate in the US, which is the worst in the world. Now why do you suppose that is? Oh right - lack of emotion outlets.
Ironically, an emotionally balanced man doesn't mean a coward. Black culture does nor reject emotion, despite the fact that we can be emotionally impulsive. It sustained us for the past 300 years. In fact, having an internal emotional balance might save lives not to charge heedlessly into battle just to maintain the veneer of masculinity, and allow a retreat until a more effective plan can be found to win battles. Given human nature has been fighting wars for 5,000 years or so, I doubt emotional balance is going to stop our natural tendency to wage war against each other. It might, however, drop the murder/homicide/suicide rate in the US, which is the worst in the world. Now why do you suppose that is? Oh right - lack of emotion outlets.
4
Its time clearly for men to leave this dreary battlefield. Let men gather on some distant island while the rest argue it out. let the others contend. Men will be elsewhere.
5
The comments to this article have been predictable. The reflexive rejection of the article by many speaks to the the last paragraph. The idea of men embracing emotional honesty strikes me as somehow wrong. Not for any good reason, it just 'feels' wrong. Which I suppose is socialization kicking in.
But then, the alternative isn't necessarily a great option. So long as society has these standards for masculinity, men will have to play along even if they don't want to. Taking on the emotional traits of women tends to lead to ridicule, rejection, and sometimes even violence. And that's just from WOMEN! Other men can react much worse.
But then, the alternative isn't necessarily a great option. So long as society has these standards for masculinity, men will have to play along even if they don't want to. Taking on the emotional traits of women tends to lead to ridicule, rejection, and sometimes even violence. And that's just from WOMEN! Other men can react much worse.
14
I think the reactions has more to do with the fact that they got a bunch of women to talk about how to "correct" boys and young men emotionally. But if a bunch of men got together to talk about how to correct an emotional woman, there'd be outrage. And you can't really talk about men's issues because then you're a racist sexist bigot that supports the patriarch, or so say the entitled women with blogs.
8
I got to be honest.....I think this article touches on some truths, but it is neither the rule nor the exception. Some men are emotionally underdeveloped and some are not....same goes for women. Everyone needs to realize that this isn't true for the majority of American males, and if these Sociologists are claiming so, then I'd love to examine their flawed, presumptive methods of data collection. I personally was a "bro." I was in a party frat, had platonic female friendships, and hugged / told my male friends that I loved them. I'm not claiming that I'm the rule, I'm just saying that I'm not the exception.
2
I think you're woefully misinterpreting this article. It's not about women "correcting" men. It's about identifying an issue that may be having negative effects on men's lives.
See this sentence here?: "With so much research showing that young men suffer beneath the gravity of conventional masculinity, men’s studies is gaining validation as a field of its own, not just a subset of women’s studies."
The distinction is a little nuanced, but it's really not that complicated. Actually, scratch that. It's pretty obvious what the article is saying. Reading comprehension, people.
See this sentence here?: "With so much research showing that young men suffer beneath the gravity of conventional masculinity, men’s studies is gaining validation as a field of its own, not just a subset of women’s studies."
The distinction is a little nuanced, but it's really not that complicated. Actually, scratch that. It's pretty obvious what the article is saying. Reading comprehension, people.
6
This conversation needs to start happening much earlier than in high school or college to allow real change to occur. It also needs to include a participatory component from parents at home.
2
I think that anyone who tries to convince a boy that "boys don't cry" should be charged with child abuse at this stage of the game.
I don't recall but I must have been told that, for most of my early life, I remember being perfectly stoic until I got older and then that totally changed.
Yes, there was "John Wayne" the actor who many boys emulated without realizing that he was just that: an actor.
Life has handed all of us moments of sadness and we must be able to express our sadness as there is plenty of that to go around! This does not make us "feminized" despite what many have said.
It only makes us human!
I don't recall but I must have been told that, for most of my early life, I remember being perfectly stoic until I got older and then that totally changed.
Yes, there was "John Wayne" the actor who many boys emulated without realizing that he was just that: an actor.
Life has handed all of us moments of sadness and we must be able to express our sadness as there is plenty of that to go around! This does not make us "feminized" despite what many have said.
It only makes us human!
20
You are a particularly evolved male.
1
I can say that at least from a surface level, this appears to be a very 'American' problem. Men from a number of other cultures/countries do not have this problem, at least when it comes to developing strong friendships with other males. They also do not have the level of homophobia so often found in this particular type of American male. Clearly many American men are so insecure that they feel the need to masquerade it under the guise of 'tough guy'...you know, the stereotypical guy who's a jock, 'nothing ever bothers him' (never shows fear or sadness or other types of vulnerability), a 'man's man' etc.
In many other cultures the men are much more secure in their own masculinity...so much so that they don't even feel the need to show it off or 'overcompensate'. They simply 'are' men. They have actual conversations with their male friends. They socialize for hours at hookah bars. They go for walks with male friends, or out for dinner. But for many American men, everything centers around the superficial: attending sporting events where the guys give their friends a manly 'slap on the back'....drinking beer, etc.
It's very true that for most such men, their female mate/spouse tends to be their one/only emotional outlet. Once that woman is no longer in their life, these men go downhill fast. We all need to understand the value of meaningful friendships and not invest so much in only our spouses. It's not fair to the spouse nor does it serve us in the long-run.
In many other cultures the men are much more secure in their own masculinity...so much so that they don't even feel the need to show it off or 'overcompensate'. They simply 'are' men. They have actual conversations with their male friends. They socialize for hours at hookah bars. They go for walks with male friends, or out for dinner. But for many American men, everything centers around the superficial: attending sporting events where the guys give their friends a manly 'slap on the back'....drinking beer, etc.
It's very true that for most such men, their female mate/spouse tends to be their one/only emotional outlet. Once that woman is no longer in their life, these men go downhill fast. We all need to understand the value of meaningful friendships and not invest so much in only our spouses. It's not fair to the spouse nor does it serve us in the long-run.
8
Outside the US it is not much different, often it may be worse. In many cultures, there is a lot of pretense and posturing and bravado as a component of male range of expression that's allowed. In some of them the range widens a bit to include nurturing when the men take the role of father - but I am sorry to say repressed emotions are a "global" issue.
Unscientifically, I can only suppose that there was a social benefit to building stoicism and repressing emotions in men because of the high likelihood that they would engage in war - the eventuality that they were the designated segment who might need to harm or kill others to ensure their survival and the survival of their group.
Unscientifically, I can only suppose that there was a social benefit to building stoicism and repressing emotions in men because of the high likelihood that they would engage in war - the eventuality that they were the designated segment who might need to harm or kill others to ensure their survival and the survival of their group.
4
Aside from a few countries in Western Europe, if anything, "the level of homophobia" seems to be worse in the rest of the world.
6
Dr. Kimmel gave a lecture on gender studies at the UN agency I worked, all high level officers attended, dutifully, because it was required by the powers that be (attendance was taken and absences duly noted), but no one came away convinced much less converted.
All felt it was more indoctrination than doctoral level analysis (we all hold PhDs in our areas of expertise).
This article is an example: dogmatically stated, with entirely anecdotal evidence, backed up with citations to scientifically dubious and discredited studies.
All felt it was more indoctrination than doctoral level analysis (we all hold PhDs in our areas of expertise).
This article is an example: dogmatically stated, with entirely anecdotal evidence, backed up with citations to scientifically dubious and discredited studies.
25
"No one" came away convinced? "All felt" any particular way?
If anyone hadn't agreed with the group, what would have happened if they'd spoken up?
If anyone hadn't agreed with the group, what would have happened if they'd spoken up?
6
@ Laura
From the reactions here in the comments to anyone who disagrees with the prevailing viewpoint of "all women=good, all men=bad", safe to assume that anyone in a workplace who wants to keep their job best not 'speak up'.
From the reactions here in the comments to anyone who disagrees with the prevailing viewpoint of "all women=good, all men=bad", safe to assume that anyone in a workplace who wants to keep their job best not 'speak up'.
1
FSM, have you not been commenting "women are attracted to bad boys and are trying to turn men into women" over and over?
No one is saying "all women = good, all men = bad". I have absolutely zero idea where you are getting this. You are completely making it up for no reason I can figure out. What is it doing for you?
Please notice that Walla Walla said his entire group disagreed with Kimmel's lecture. Are you suggesting that they all lost their jobs?
No one is saying "all women = good, all men = bad". I have absolutely zero idea where you are getting this. You are completely making it up for no reason I can figure out. What is it doing for you?
Please notice that Walla Walla said his entire group disagreed with Kimmel's lecture. Are you suggesting that they all lost their jobs?
As is necessary in article this short, this represents a vast oversimplification but the author does raise some great points. I have a 4 year old son and I wrestle with these issues all the time. I know that I am his model for manhood and my actions will consciously and subsconsciously pave put in place the norms by which he will genrate his on actions and evaluate the actions of others.
We are seeing a slow emergence of women. They are just now beginning to reach their potential. What a wonderful thing. And while their emergence is not a direct threat to men, it does mean that men and society will have to make adjustments to accomodate them. These challenges are real up and down the economic spectrum. We have seen issues in Silicon Valley and boarrooms across corporate America. But I do believe over time, those economic pockets will adjust reasonably well. It is in the more blue collar areas where I think change will be the hardest.
Is it a coincidence that a mysognist like Donald Trump has his greatest appeal among white, working class men? I doubt it. Is it surprsing that Trump rallies have featured so much violence?
When viewed in this context, we can see that these gender issues are a real challenge for modern society and not just a case of Johnny not being in touch with his feelings. It is tempting to dismiss this stuff but the suicides, drug and alcohol abuse, mental illness, domestic abuse,, divorce etc are real.
We are seeing a slow emergence of women. They are just now beginning to reach their potential. What a wonderful thing. And while their emergence is not a direct threat to men, it does mean that men and society will have to make adjustments to accomodate them. These challenges are real up and down the economic spectrum. We have seen issues in Silicon Valley and boarrooms across corporate America. But I do believe over time, those economic pockets will adjust reasonably well. It is in the more blue collar areas where I think change will be the hardest.
Is it a coincidence that a mysognist like Donald Trump has his greatest appeal among white, working class men? I doubt it. Is it surprsing that Trump rallies have featured so much violence?
When viewed in this context, we can see that these gender issues are a real challenge for modern society and not just a case of Johnny not being in touch with his feelings. It is tempting to dismiss this stuff but the suicides, drug and alcohol abuse, mental illness, domestic abuse,, divorce etc are real.
20
These are Rorschach statistics and anecdotes - you can use them to confirm whatever bias you want. This author's bias appears to be that society 'limits'/constrains men emotionally. He imagines how men should act (in his mind), and uses evidence that they don't as the support for his thesis.
2
Only a few voices of reason on this comment thread. Let me add mine.
Sorry. You're wrong. Men don't need to be taught anything. You don't see men crying, fretting, complaining, and drowning themselves in the vast and inviting sea of self pity BECAUSE we have better things to do. Masculinity is knowing what to do next when disaster strikes. It's about confidence and identity and a strong sense of self and purpose.
Men I know, myself included, would easily cry in some situations. The death of a close friend for example. That's grief. But I can't imagine crying generally. It's just a useless emotion most of the time. More frequent situations in everyday life require a plan and action. Less of the tears and moping. That's why men don't cry.
Sorry. You're wrong. Men don't need to be taught anything. You don't see men crying, fretting, complaining, and drowning themselves in the vast and inviting sea of self pity BECAUSE we have better things to do. Masculinity is knowing what to do next when disaster strikes. It's about confidence and identity and a strong sense of self and purpose.
Men I know, myself included, would easily cry in some situations. The death of a close friend for example. That's grief. But I can't imagine crying generally. It's just a useless emotion most of the time. More frequent situations in everyday life require a plan and action. Less of the tears and moping. That's why men don't cry.
35
"But I can't imagine crying generally. It's just a useless emotion most of the time."
Well, there's part of the problem....crying isn't an emotion.
Crying also doesn't preclude having a plan and taking action. Nor are crying and "moping" equivalent, but what is telling is that you chose to associate crying with a term that has a decidedly negative connotation.
Seems like you just have a lot of preconceptions about crying. The point of this article is to examine why. You sorta proved its point.
And here's this:
"You don't see men crying, fretting, complaining, and drowning themselves in the vast and inviting sea of self pity BECAUSE we have better things to do."
Oh, god, let me assure you-I *DO* see men crying, fretting, complaining, and drowning themselves in self pity. They just may shed fewer tears while they do it. And I see them angry, enraged, bitter, irritated, lonely, anxious. All. The. Time.
Well, there's part of the problem....crying isn't an emotion.
Crying also doesn't preclude having a plan and taking action. Nor are crying and "moping" equivalent, but what is telling is that you chose to associate crying with a term that has a decidedly negative connotation.
Seems like you just have a lot of preconceptions about crying. The point of this article is to examine why. You sorta proved its point.
And here's this:
"You don't see men crying, fretting, complaining, and drowning themselves in the vast and inviting sea of self pity BECAUSE we have better things to do."
Oh, god, let me assure you-I *DO* see men crying, fretting, complaining, and drowning themselves in self pity. They just may shed fewer tears while they do it. And I see them angry, enraged, bitter, irritated, lonely, anxious. All. The. Time.
40
Well, except for the men who commit suicide or murder or assault - which they do in rates far exceeding those of women - there's absolutely nothing wrong with men.
24
@ C's Daughter: '... I see them angry, enraged, bitter, irritated, lonely, anxious. All. The. Time...'
Perhaps choose better male company.
Perhaps choose better male company.
3
A couple of thoughts:
By college (or even high school) it's too late.
There are remarkably wide variations in terms of how men deal with emotions and displaying them; culture, socio-economic background, family circumstance, presence of important male figure in male child's development; the attitude towards this held by the women in their life.
There are too many variable in terms of getting men to be more genuinely emotive and empathetic for there to be less than many approaches. I suggest a good starting place would be stressing the teaching of the Golden Rule in pre-K through 5th grade.
By college (or even high school) it's too late.
There are remarkably wide variations in terms of how men deal with emotions and displaying them; culture, socio-economic background, family circumstance, presence of important male figure in male child's development; the attitude towards this held by the women in their life.
There are too many variable in terms of getting men to be more genuinely emotive and empathetic for there to be less than many approaches. I suggest a good starting place would be stressing the teaching of the Golden Rule in pre-K through 5th grade.
2
"By college (or even high school) it's too late."
Yes. How about we start by not subjecting infant males to genital mutilation.
Let's assume they will feel the pain and resent the loss of a functional part of their bodies.
Let's give up the foolish notion that they are little "tough guys" who will never care about what they have lost.
That would be a good place to start.
Yes. How about we start by not subjecting infant males to genital mutilation.
Let's assume they will feel the pain and resent the loss of a functional part of their bodies.
Let's give up the foolish notion that they are little "tough guys" who will never care about what they have lost.
That would be a good place to start.
2
I thnk the last-discussed student had internalized the expectations of his professor when he said that the reason passers-by did not stop to ask if he was ok when he was crying was “It’s like we’re scared,” he said, “that the natural order of things will completely collapse.” I think the reason was because in a macho culture, passers-by didn't want to offend a crying man by expressing concern/doubt that he could take care of himself, or else were afraid that anger might be the result.
13
I described myself as a "soft male" which was spoken of positively in the 1980s and '90s press such as Psychology Today and the news magazines. That adjective didn't last long in popular culture. Among my peers, it was spoken of with derision. A sexy woman I married in our late teens became a verbal and emotional abuser a few years later. I was chagrined when a few of her female friends would refer to me as "Poor Bruce" in a lighthearted but meaningful way. I regained my self-respect when I finally divorced her and left the soft male attribution behind. It was difficult to maintain that dynamic in a culture that seemed to reject if not have contempt for any but a "Strong Male." I became more angry than hurt because I felt stronger and less vulnerable. I wish it were not so. Good luck in educating males and females to appreciate the inner strength it takes to be emotionally honest.
9
America loves and tolerates "angry" men, despite all the damage and harm which they do. It ridicules the "soft" or emotional men.
"Angry" men are a resource to be exploited: worked to death, sent to war, ignored by legislators. The "strong, silent type" is a fool, prime for abuse.
Until he explodes and kills his family or a group of strangers. Then he is the "lone killer with issues".
"Angry" men are a resource to be exploited: worked to death, sent to war, ignored by legislators. The "strong, silent type" is a fool, prime for abuse.
Until he explodes and kills his family or a group of strangers. Then he is the "lone killer with issues".
5
Right! The arch feminist at my school was dating the alpha misogynist. Go figure!
Men need to examine and define masculinity so that it is not done for them by feminists or women's studies professors or anyone else that may not have their best interests in mind. Whatever they decide, it may not be what women hope for.
11
Men need to define masculinity so that it doesn't require being superior to women. Whatever they do it can't be about degrading, hobbling or putting down women.
9
Women (and feminism) are not your enemy. Never have been.
It is the masculinist, homophobic culture which is your enemy.
Change that – make that positive and life affirming – instead of being the sad, destructive "bro" culture it currently is.
It is the masculinist, homophobic culture which is your enemy.
Change that – make that positive and life affirming – instead of being the sad, destructive "bro" culture it currently is.
5
I suspect that many women who want to redefine masculinity don't like men.
4
I, for one, don't want boys to become girls. Or vice versa. Isn't the issue just trying to mitigate our most extreme negative characteristics, male and female? For example, we don't want boys to be emotionally crippled, or violent. Men are beautiful and wonderful. Almost always.
Women are certainly capable of a lot of reprehensible and unfortunate behavior, which doesn't get called out constantly like men's poor behavior does. This is no doubt because women in fact have had the short end of the stick in regard to male-female power dynamics, but that still doesn't excuse everything.
Women are certainly capable of a lot of reprehensible and unfortunate behavior, which doesn't get called out constantly like men's poor behavior does. This is no doubt because women in fact have had the short end of the stick in regard to male-female power dynamics, but that still doesn't excuse everything.
31
What make you conclude that women not being called out on bad behavior is due (or even partially due) to having "the short end of the stick in male-female power dynamics"? At least to my feeble mind I don't see how these are connected.
2
"Women are certainly capable of a lot of reprehensible and unfortunate behavior, which doesn't get called out constantly like men's poor behavior does."
LOL. I'd love to live in the fantasy land you live in.
LOL. I'd love to live in the fantasy land you live in.
7
Wow! I'm 71 and this is like reading Ann Landers columns in the Chicago Sun Times 55 years ago!
The more things change, the more they stay the same, I guess.
The more things change, the more they stay the same, I guess.
11
Something struck me while reading through the comments that didn't occur to me when I read the article. Women are not as free with their emotions as the article implies and as many of you seem to think. Many of us face stigma for crying or being too emotional. Not everybody comes from a middle class America. There are a lot of us that grew up in cultures where life is hard and crying will get you nowhere.
40
Claiming that women have access to the entire range of human emotions neglects the stigma associated with female anger. We're allowed to be weak, hurt, or sad, but we're not allowed to be confident, ambitious, or angry. Just look at the double standard in the reactions to Sanders and Clinton. He can yell, interrupt, wave his hands, huff and puff, and look angry, and he still gets called a "gentleman" for his supposed reticence. She is almost super-humanly self-possessed 99.9% of the time, but the moment she shows some justifiable anger in response to a lie, people talk about her supposed "meltdown".
192
I agree 100%. And while we can say that broadly speaking, American men are not as good with expressing their emotions or being emotionally-honest with themselves (as American women might be), I do know plenty of women who have real problems with emotional honesty. So while it does tend to fall along gender lines, that's certainly not to say that there aren't many American men out there who ARE emotionally intelligent and self aware, and many American women who are the opposite.
5
Women also have problems dealing with difficult emotions. Crying is at the end of a spectrum (repression being the other end). It can be a way to release the charge of the emotion, so the emotion is not held and experienced. Crying, of course, can be the authentic expression of sadness, grief (or any other emotion, even joy). Crying can also be used to modulate intense emotion, so that it can then be held and experienced. A taboo on crying, or encouraging it, seem to encourage inauthenticity.
3
Thanks to progressive/feminists we have the wimpiest, most insecure, least masculine generation of males in the history of mankind. Somehow I don't think they will be satisfied until we castrate all males and pump them full of estrogen. As a compromise, perhaps once we have perfected asexual reproduction, you can just start breeding them out of the population.
6
Can you please tell us how a 'non-wimpy, masculine' male in the U.S. might conduct himself...what characteristic behaviors we might find in such a male?
4
As far as I can tell from this article, we are raising boys with the same cultural expectations as we did 50 years ago. Boys seemed to do just fine back then, dominating academics and everything else. Is male culture different now than it was 50 years ago? Are boys really doing worse, or are girls just doing better on average, now that we've changed our cultural expectations for them and they're expected to be tough, smart, and capable?
11
Actually, we do not raise children like we did 50 years ago, when I was 8. I had never even heard of handing out trophies just for showing up until the "self-esteem movement" caught up to sports in the early 1990s. Additionally, other than people like 'The Donald,' we were not raised with the same sense of entitlement that is so prevalent among younger generations.
I do not have hard evidence to support this, yet I think it's reasonable that we've trophied our kids into a somewhat delusional sense of self worth.
I do not have hard evidence to support this, yet I think it's reasonable that we've trophied our kids into a somewhat delusional sense of self worth.
1
"Actually, we do not raise children like we did 50 years ago, when I was 8. I had never even heard of handing out trophies just for showing up...we were not raised with the same sense of entitlement that is so prevalent among younger generations."
YES! I'm near the same age range as you and things have totally changed with the over-emphasis on self-esteem at all costs, even if it IS the Truth you're just not as good as others who are more deserving. I was stunned to see my niece bring home a big trophy for simply being on a local soccer team, which she hated and did so mainly to please her dad and older brother. I turned to her mother, my younger sister, simply raised my eyebrow, and stared hard. She got it immediately, stating, "I know, I know but it's just way it is now. What could I do?" Indeed.
Feminism did great work that needed to be done, by righting 1000s of years of wrong. But at times, even I, ardent liberal that I am, feel the pendulum is swinging too far in the other direction.
YES! I'm near the same age range as you and things have totally changed with the over-emphasis on self-esteem at all costs, even if it IS the Truth you're just not as good as others who are more deserving. I was stunned to see my niece bring home a big trophy for simply being on a local soccer team, which she hated and did so mainly to please her dad and older brother. I turned to her mother, my younger sister, simply raised my eyebrow, and stared hard. She got it immediately, stating, "I know, I know but it's just way it is now. What could I do?" Indeed.
Feminism did great work that needed to be done, by righting 1000s of years of wrong. But at times, even I, ardent liberal that I am, feel the pendulum is swinging too far in the other direction.
Where do you think white male resentment is coming from? These guys have lots more competition for the prizes these days and are not very happy about it.
This article is completely misleading, as it omits a very important component of male behavior: "female sexual selection".
It's a known fact that women themselves are more likely to choose to engage in intercourse with men that exhibit stereotypical male traits than those that will act out emotionally vulnerable. As such, there is little incentive for men to display the full range of emotions. Change in male behavior will only come when changes in women's behavior start kicking in. Until then, this is all just hogwash.
It's a known fact that women themselves are more likely to choose to engage in intercourse with men that exhibit stereotypical male traits than those that will act out emotionally vulnerable. As such, there is little incentive for men to display the full range of emotions. Change in male behavior will only come when changes in women's behavior start kicking in. Until then, this is all just hogwash.
26
Change in male and female behavior will only happen when both sexes are emotionally skilled enough to relate on a deep level. The commenter, by focusing on the primacy of the act of intercourse, completely missed the point about the profound human need to create and sustain genuine intimacy in relationships.
6
I love it when a male stands up and announces what it is women like. News flash: most modern women dont want a stereotypical manly man as a life partner, they want someone who can be a partner, share equally in lifes duties.
Finding physically attractive and wanting to marry is two different concepts.
Finding physically attractive and wanting to marry is two different concepts.
6
Your hypothesis suggests that men who might otherwise be quite sensitive and emotive adopt a more traditionally masculine persona to get laid. I don't know about that. However, even young boys who know nothing of the joys of sex are often more "masculine" in this regard than girls in the same cohort. I think this suggests there there are likely biological and environmental factors (like role models) that are more influential than "female sexual selection" in male emotiveness.
2
"One study out of Harvard Medical School and Boston Children’s Hospital in 1999 found that 6-month-old boys were more likely to show “facial expressions of anger, to fuss, to gesture to be picked up” and “tended to cry more than girls.”"
One wonders if they screened for males who had been circumcised? I recall a study on stress and sleep which found a corelation between circumcision and sleep disruption (http://www.cirp.org/library/birth/emde/).
So perhaps we should finally talk openly about male circumcision, that form of genital mutilation which everyone likes to trivialize and forget about.
Why is it "ok" to amputate healthy, functional tissue from a newborn male, imagining that he "doesn't feel it" (yes, that has been claimed) or that the foreskin "serves no purpose (yes, that has also been claimed)?
If we want men to be emotionally healthy and available, a good place to start is to not cut away a part of their bodies which society is not comfortable with.
One wonders if they screened for males who had been circumcised? I recall a study on stress and sleep which found a corelation between circumcision and sleep disruption (http://www.cirp.org/library/birth/emde/).
So perhaps we should finally talk openly about male circumcision, that form of genital mutilation which everyone likes to trivialize and forget about.
Why is it "ok" to amputate healthy, functional tissue from a newborn male, imagining that he "doesn't feel it" (yes, that has been claimed) or that the foreskin "serves no purpose (yes, that has also been claimed)?
If we want men to be emotionally healthy and available, a good place to start is to not cut away a part of their bodies which society is not comfortable with.
8
I thinks its amusing how you interject circumcision into a debate about male emotiveness and turn it into anti-circumcision screed. I think of it as a case of: When your only tool is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.
1
"screed"?
You are a mite defensive there it seems.
I offered no "screed" – I raised the question as to why we tolerate the genital mutilation of infant males, and how that tolerance ties into larger patterns of male gender role conditioning.
We accept and tolerate the sacrifice of men: in war, in dangerous jobs, in dangerous sports and other practices. We tolerate male violence and destructive behavior.
"Boys will be boys"?
The whole pattern of the socially and emotionally isolated male, unable or unwilling to take care of himself, unwilling to go to a doctor or to seek treatment, is part of the larger pattern of male gender role conditioning which the article addresses. Male genital mutilation is just another aspect of that.
You are a mite defensive there it seems.
I offered no "screed" – I raised the question as to why we tolerate the genital mutilation of infant males, and how that tolerance ties into larger patterns of male gender role conditioning.
We accept and tolerate the sacrifice of men: in war, in dangerous jobs, in dangerous sports and other practices. We tolerate male violence and destructive behavior.
"Boys will be boys"?
The whole pattern of the socially and emotionally isolated male, unable or unwilling to take care of himself, unwilling to go to a doctor or to seek treatment, is part of the larger pattern of male gender role conditioning which the article addresses. Male genital mutilation is just another aspect of that.
1
Men are in many ways defined by their relationship with women. Many activities and lifestyles men choose are as much about appealing to the opposite sex as they are our own enjoyment. This leads to an uncomfortable reality about male behavior. What people like Andrew Reiner feel would be good for men often makes them unappealing to women. Cry in public and then try and get a date with a woman who witnessed it. Be sensitive and passive and watch every woman you are interested in shun you for a more aggressive traditionally masculine guy.
One such example comes from Emma Watson's well publicized "He for She" campaign, where among other things she has suggested that men shouldn't be afraid to not conform to stereotypes and be less aggressive, but simultaneously says in interviews that she doesn't see herself dating any more British guys because they are too shy and she finds the aggressiveness of Americans more attractive.
People are and always will be attracted to whatever they are attracted to, but so long as particular male behaviors are ROMANTICALLY unacceptable to the majority of women, no matter how desirable they may be otherwise, those behaviors will be resisted by the majority of the male population.
One such example comes from Emma Watson's well publicized "He for She" campaign, where among other things she has suggested that men shouldn't be afraid to not conform to stereotypes and be less aggressive, but simultaneously says in interviews that she doesn't see herself dating any more British guys because they are too shy and she finds the aggressiveness of Americans more attractive.
People are and always will be attracted to whatever they are attracted to, but so long as particular male behaviors are ROMANTICALLY unacceptable to the majority of women, no matter how desirable they may be otherwise, those behaviors will be resisted by the majority of the male population.
22
Oh for the love of.... What is this nonsense? First off, if you are crying in public, you probably need a hug, a tissue, or a sympathetic ear, not a date. Why does every single aspect of a man's life have to be about "getting" a woman? You don't have women friends? Cousins? Sisters? Co-workers? Neighbors? A mom? Do you even get that it's possible for people to relate to people NOT as interlocking genitals?
And what kind of silly dichotomy are you setting up? Are you saying that men have to be angry, roid-rage-y meatheads breaking cinder-blocks with their skull, and that the only other choice is to be a weepy, insecure basket-case who can't change a spark plug? Is that how you see women? How insulting. If you were more interested in meeting us and talking to us instead of "getting" us, you might realize that we manage to be complete human beings with a wide range of interests, who feel different things in different contexts. We don't flicker out of existence when you stop looking at us.
Finally, I know lots of musicians, code-geeks, touchy-feely counselors, and goofball dreamers who do just fine with the ladies. Consider that if a guy's efforts to be "sensitive" don't work, it could be the problem is something else. Like maybe he's performing the role of a "nice guy" to get sexual access. Maybe women can see through this eager, drooly pretense and are rightfully creeped out. At least Johnny Meathead is breaking cinderblocks with his noggin because that's what he loves.
And what kind of silly dichotomy are you setting up? Are you saying that men have to be angry, roid-rage-y meatheads breaking cinder-blocks with their skull, and that the only other choice is to be a weepy, insecure basket-case who can't change a spark plug? Is that how you see women? How insulting. If you were more interested in meeting us and talking to us instead of "getting" us, you might realize that we manage to be complete human beings with a wide range of interests, who feel different things in different contexts. We don't flicker out of existence when you stop looking at us.
Finally, I know lots of musicians, code-geeks, touchy-feely counselors, and goofball dreamers who do just fine with the ladies. Consider that if a guy's efforts to be "sensitive" don't work, it could be the problem is something else. Like maybe he's performing the role of a "nice guy" to get sexual access. Maybe women can see through this eager, drooly pretense and are rightfully creeped out. At least Johnny Meathead is breaking cinderblocks with his noggin because that's what he loves.
34
This is how men and women end up with partners they have nothing in common with. Taking on roles that they think the majority of women will be attracted to. If you are looking for lots of women, sure, go for it. If you are looking for the one, the only way is to be yourself as much as possible. If she isn't interested in that, she isn't interested in you. I've heard bad advice like this all my life. I met my wife in a reading group (because we are readers, etc). I see people who aren't really into bars meet someone there and are then surprised that the person they met at the bar wants to hang out in a bar a lot....
15
There have been like 20 comments along this same line. Women only like men who are tough and don't cry, so it's their fault that men are tough and don't cry. This is a bunch of bunk. Some Christian woman who wants to live the life of the 1950s may say that, but not me. I want a man to be physically strong just like they want me to have big breasts, but it doesn't mean I want them to be angry jerks. My ideal man is a sensitive, open, and physically athletic person. It's just those men don't exist. It seems like if a man is physically strong he Must also be a jerk.
1
This to me seems to have a "so nineties" feel. I don't mean to sound snarky, but why are academics still asking the men/women questions. I think people and parents now are all about helping all toddlers grow up with all their emotions intact. Do educators just make things worse by studying men and women separately? And do we really want a culture where everybody is spilling emotions all the time like pre-teen girls are taught to do by TV and movies?
4
It is of course possible that there is nothing wrong with masculine men. Maybe there is something wrong with the metrosexual and effeminate men or masculine women who are apparently threatened by masculinity, in men anyway. Masculinity in women is to be celebrated while the same in men should be eliminated or altered. Is that about the size of it?
Why does the NYT hate masculine men so much?
Why does the NYT hate masculine men so much?
15
Look at suicide, assault, and murder rates...there's cause for worry.
3
Ridiculous. There are millions of us that are perfectly content being manly men, and our wives love us.
1
Assault and murder rates have plumited. Suicide has escelated. Maybe theres society theres something wrong with, and not masculinity. Or maybe we should use the same logic with women. Its their femininity thats their only source for their own troubles. We need to fix it.
Horsefeathers! More post feministic nonsense shoved onto mostly white suburban upper middle class men. The same guys who don't become ironworkers, carpenters and cops. When some thug is breaking into your house, who are you going to call? The local nerd in touch with his feelings?
11
"When some thug is breaking into your house, who are you going to call? The local nerd in touch with his feelings?"
When someone is breaking into my house, I will call the police. The chief of police in my town is a woman, by the way.
When someone is breaking into my house, I will call the police. The chief of police in my town is a woman, by the way.
41
The ManKind Project is an international organization that offers an intensive initiation weekend for men (over 18), followed by intensive experiential instruction on being a man, and then ongoing participation in men's groups, plus opportunities for clarifying one's purpose in the world, and opportunities for developing leadership capacities. I have been part of it for 14 years, as well as leading men's groups and retreats outside of MKP. There are resources for men to grow, and thousands of men have (rather quietly) taken advantage of these pathways. College counseling services are overwhelmed as is; community organizations like MKP are out there--
4
I would also suggest the hostility towards Michael Kimmel might be because he is an unabashed self-proclaimed feminist, while at the same time devoting time and study to men and masculinity. Doesn't make much sense, does it? Why not call yourself an egalitarian or humanist, rather than trying to educate about men while subscribing to a movement explicitly for the advancement of women? Fair or not, it associates him with those who believes (and it teach) that the only way to pull women up is to drag down men. And while I applaud mens studies in college and men's centers, I could not be more disappointed that Kimmel (along with Gloria Steinem!) are who lead the one at Stony Brook. It's like they believe you can advocate feminism for all, and masculity will come from there. It's a function of how dominant the (more-radical-than-normal) strain of feminism is on college campuses.
And I'm sure the dramatized retelling of that encounter (complete with the male student ready to burst in tears at the slightest challenge) is totally and completely accurate. /s
And I'm sure the dramatized retelling of that encounter (complete with the male student ready to burst in tears at the slightest challenge) is totally and completely accurate. /s
8
You don't understand the word "feminist," or at least the way that it's used by Kimmel: it's about stopping the oppression of women, and any good human being would be for that. If men became more rational, more emotionally mature and more honest, they would be feminists, since they would be for what's best for everyone: no violence or oppression of anyone, including not of women by male violence and by cultural oppression and also no oppression of men by the hyper-masculinist code that also oppresses men, as this article illustrates.
6
Agreed. His blanket dismissal of the male students response by a shaking of his head is incredibly condescending and unprofessional.
8
P.J. - I honestly cannot tell is that is satire or not. If it's not, please be aware there is a difference between not understanding something and not agreeing with it. If a linguist disagrees with the bastardization of a word, that doesn't mean they just don't understand.
1
The opening scene tells it all. We are conditioned from the moment we are born. The hospitals I know have pink & blue blankets, not green or some other neutral color. From the moment we are born, the world wants to be sure girls know they sb pink & boys sb blue. Until we get over these obvious divisions, children will continue to be "pretty princesses" or "brave warriors" instead of simply people who have the rest of their lives to form an identity.
11
You are over-simplifying. There are real differences between men and women and if we ignore them completely, we will be ignoring (and fighting) reality. The challenge is to figure out what the appropriate parameters are, so that a woman can learn that she can be smart, strong, accomplished and attractive and a man that he can be sensitive, thoughtful, vulnerable and attractive.
1
we're not conditioned, as a man I inherited my male chromosomes XY from my parents.
3
Some of it is indeed cultural. The acceptable public expression of emotion among men varies a great deal from country to country. What men feel may be innate, but how they are permitted to hide or display it most certainly is not.
As a living breathing experiment that continues to question both the culturally imposed definitions of masculinity and those that I intellectually embrace I can only say that the experiment continues with mixed success. I have tried to explore "strength through vulnerability" to find that few (if any) woman have the skills or desire to explore it with me, let alone my peers. Although I am not a fan of "safe zones" the need for male support is long overdue. I look at how woman are culturally supported to to embrace their growth with envy. As a symbol of both white and male privilege I'm sure I'll get some rolling eyes but remember that's only the color of my skin and my gender identity that you see. My daughters have benefited from recent cultural changes and their immediate prospects for emotional balance are looking up but my adolescent son's future is less certain. It's been a 50 year experiment. Here's to the next 50.
5
"I look at how woman are culturally supported to to embrace their growth with envy."
Women built that. They did the work, endured the ridicule and braved the taboos. They were courageous enough to begin talking to each other and to formulate a critique of gender role conditioning.
Small groups of men have tried, since the 1970s, to push against the norms of male gender role conditioning but their (and my) efforts never took root. And now we have the ridiculous and hateful "Men's Rights Advocates" who reject feminism and all it has achieved.
Women built that. They did the work, endured the ridicule and braved the taboos. They were courageous enough to begin talking to each other and to formulate a critique of gender role conditioning.
Small groups of men have tried, since the 1970s, to push against the norms of male gender role conditioning but their (and my) efforts never took root. And now we have the ridiculous and hateful "Men's Rights Advocates" who reject feminism and all it has achieved.
7
I'm still digesting many points of this column, which initially strikes me as largely positive for a column focusing on gender. I deeply appreciate the efforts by (some) in the overwhelmingly feminist gender-studies departments in academia to support male studies courses and departments. However, it cannot all be on the boys and men themselves. Our boys are schooled in an educational system in which women are the overwhelming majority of educators, partly because males are looked at with incredible suspicion around children. But this has real consequences - studies show female teachers have a clear preference for female students (and their gender-associated niceness) when it comes to grading and school suspensions. Many of the opportunities in schools where boys could commonly bond, such as metalworking, woodworking, auto repair - have largely been eliminated.
So if we are to teach our boys what "good" masculinity is - it's important to look at who is teaching it. It's known the gender studies departments in colleges harbor views can fairly be called misandric ("Teach not to rape"). So if we are to teach them they are worth something and that their life has merit before they become a vicitim of suicide - let's also look at who is teaching them. The only teacher is remember from K-12 was my male 6th grade history teacher, who mentored me at very emotional time in my life. I would not be surprised if some boys don't have a chance to have that male role model.
So if we are to teach our boys what "good" masculinity is - it's important to look at who is teaching it. It's known the gender studies departments in colleges harbor views can fairly be called misandric ("Teach not to rape"). So if we are to teach them they are worth something and that their life has merit before they become a vicitim of suicide - let's also look at who is teaching them. The only teacher is remember from K-12 was my male 6th grade history teacher, who mentored me at very emotional time in my life. I would not be surprised if some boys don't have a chance to have that male role model.
22
You appear to miss the obvious - per the article itself - 80% of students taking the course are women.
The guys are too busy studying engineering.
The guys are too busy studying engineering.
2
OK, so if society can decide it's worth spending $300 million to spend on women in tech, what's stopping it from deciding that much is also worth spending on men in education? You are right - we guys often go where the money is - so let's make "gender equality" more than just lip service and start paying men $20K signing bonuses to teach.
1
Our statistically anecdotal evidence of a massive feminization of K-12 system:
Middle School Yearbook: 78 female staffers and only 5 male (3 of them janitors, custodians).
African-American and other activists protest that inner city school staff "dont look like community they serve" and that inner city kids dont have their own race "models" as teachers in front of them.
For boys - unless they are minorities - such emotionally charged battle cry and demand of course doesn't apply. They have their white male privilege, ... not in the formative K-12 years.
Middle School Yearbook: 78 female staffers and only 5 male (3 of them janitors, custodians).
African-American and other activists protest that inner city school staff "dont look like community they serve" and that inner city kids dont have their own race "models" as teachers in front of them.
For boys - unless they are minorities - such emotionally charged battle cry and demand of course doesn't apply. They have their white male privilege, ... not in the formative K-12 years.
It is as feminists have pointed out for ages. Patriarchy hurts everyone- it hurts women more, but it's not good for men either. Toxic masculinity is a thing that needs to be deconstructed, and we need to de-brainwash people from it.
174
"Toxic masculinity." The mere existence of the term serves as evidence of a movement of man-hating feminists.
8
We also need to de-brainwash people about marriage (yes, straight and gay). It's patriarchy's most necessary institution. Support marriage and you support patriarchy.
@ legle
Ironically, it is little girls' mothers, not The Patriarchy, who 'brainwash' them into thinking marriage is the only goal in life worth pursuing.
Ironically, it is little girls' mothers, not The Patriarchy, who 'brainwash' them into thinking marriage is the only goal in life worth pursuing.
2
Printed and promptly filed under "WHITE PEOPLE PROBLEMS".
11
Right, because we all know that only minorities have social issues. Everything is rosy and perfect for those of us who are white.
3
White people's problem, really? I have to assume that is something you know or care little about. Rather than labeling you a racist, allow me to suggest that you examine your humanity regardless of your race or gender. Ask yourself when or if at all you have engaged in any sort of kindness, decency and intelligent behavior.
1
You are so, so wrong about that.
2
I'm 63 and I fondly remember my experiences in Little League when I was growing up in Queens, NYC. It was fun and work all tied up into one and we enjoyed the competition both on a personal level and a team level. Now, years later, I wanted my son to experience the same joy as I did and I encouraged him to participate in Little League. We live in a small town (70K) in AZ. The experience was completely different for him. The coaches and officials in the league in our area offered male-macho don't-cry-when-smacked-with-a-hardball-in-the-face you-don't-hustle-then-you-sit-on-the-bench attitudes. It was gross to be around. The fun was gone! Even eight- and nine-year-olds were forced to undergo this male indoctrination.
My son dropped out when he was about 12 years old. He is not that type of kid and I agreed with his decision.
I feel that in the 50 years since I played that we haven't learned anything!! It's all tied in together -- male macho little league, date-raping in college, joining the military to go and kill Arabs, raping the environment for our profit...I can go on and on........it's still being played out across small town America...
I don't want any part of it for myself and my family.
My son dropped out when he was about 12 years old. He is not that type of kid and I agreed with his decision.
I feel that in the 50 years since I played that we haven't learned anything!! It's all tied in together -- male macho little league, date-raping in college, joining the military to go and kill Arabs, raping the environment for our profit...I can go on and on........it's still being played out across small town America...
I don't want any part of it for myself and my family.
268
Good lessons, all. Don't cry when things go against you. Hustle on the bases and after the ball or you will sit the bench. Why on earth should either of these be a problem?
2
Well, almost all little LL kids are afraid of getting hit by the ball. The great lies are that you won't get hit and it won't hurt. Overcoming fear is what enables you to grow. Some kids get it, and some don't.
3
I would only disagree slightly on the ball hitting you and not crying part. I think the crying shouldn't be shamed, but rather the idea that you get back up and try again, overcome your fear, should be emphasized.
Also, the hustling and trying hard at all times is a great lesson. Something must've been left out of OPs comment.
Also, the hustling and trying hard at all times is a great lesson. Something must've been left out of OPs comment.
1
As a female, 22 year-old recent college graduate, I have seen but too much evidence of a shift in personality in men over time: from "manly" to soft and emotional (and back and forth...)
This switch has remained consistent and fairly obvious in my romantic relationships with men. At first, the man must prove that he fits society's ideals through demonstration of his undying masculinity. This can be achieved as he takes obvious risks, lifts anything in sight, clearly points out his high tolerance for alcohol, etc.
It seems that only when he is certain that he has accomplished this goal can he connect emotionally. When this finally happens, the emotions start flowing, as if they've never had such an opportunity.
Heaven forbid his friends catch him in the act.
It cultivates a special bond between us. However, a close emotional connection with only one person can be exceptionally limiting for obvious reasons. It also can make a man very dependent and consider pursuing a relationship that should have ended long ago.
Tough-guy stereotypes really do die hard. I agree - it is important to demonstrate that women are not the only ones who may suffer the consequences.
This switch has remained consistent and fairly obvious in my romantic relationships with men. At first, the man must prove that he fits society's ideals through demonstration of his undying masculinity. This can be achieved as he takes obvious risks, lifts anything in sight, clearly points out his high tolerance for alcohol, etc.
It seems that only when he is certain that he has accomplished this goal can he connect emotionally. When this finally happens, the emotions start flowing, as if they've never had such an opportunity.
Heaven forbid his friends catch him in the act.
It cultivates a special bond between us. However, a close emotional connection with only one person can be exceptionally limiting for obvious reasons. It also can make a man very dependent and consider pursuing a relationship that should have ended long ago.
Tough-guy stereotypes really do die hard. I agree - it is important to demonstrate that women are not the only ones who may suffer the consequences.
32
Soft-girl stereotypes die equally as hard and are equally a part of the binary tragedy that anyone on the gender spectrum has to navigate.. ever watch HBO's Girls?
1
You're only 22 so perhaps you haven't encountered this yet but I know a guy is eyeing me as a serious romantic prospect when he starts to talk about or show me what he has to offer materially -- whether it be a high income, a nice car, property or a fancy house, or some type of status. All this, while appreciated, has always taken me aback a bit because I'm the type of gal who has her income, house, car and status and I'm not particularly materialistic in that way. (It's also funny to see it written about blatently in older books like Bleak House when Guppy tries to woo Esther.)
Anyway, another marker of how men feel they have to act or be to prove their masculinity. To me support in non-materialistic ways -- spending time with me, helping me solve problems, supporting my work -- is just as important.
Anyway, another marker of how men feel they have to act or be to prove their masculinity. To me support in non-materialistic ways -- spending time with me, helping me solve problems, supporting my work -- is just as important.
1
That last sentence captures more than fear of losing privilege. We are not living in a post-military world. Millennia's worth of social conditioning, underpinned by the reality of needing defense in time of war or disaster, says that someone has to be tough enough not to cry under the worst of circumstances, and those with the most physical strength are the logical candidates to bear this burden. Plato didn't want men watching tragedies because these depictions of fictional catastrophes encouraged emotional catharsis and it was entirely inappropriate for the defenders of the city-state to emote vulnerably in public. This belief is deeply engrained in the social fabric and isn't likely to change as long as the need for the strong and violent doesn't go away.
50
False dichotomy. Assuming you're correct (that a subset of our population has to remain psychologically "primed" for battle at all times), it would be wiser to teach all of us -- men and women -- to regulate our emotions. That means cultivating an awareness and openness to our emotions at all non-life-threatening moments, but also practicing summoning a different mental state for extreme circumstances (I'm pretty sure most of us do this already -- not a lot of women military pilots weeping on the job; not a lot of male nurses telling their patients to 'suck it up').
17
Plato didn't want men to watch tragedies because they a) taught them bad morals, b) taught them to lie, and c) were themselves imitations of imitations, twice removed from the ideal truth. Nothing to do with tough guys. Catharsis was Aristotle, who saw that in tragedy tough Athenians had a healthy emotional outlet. More education in the classics in place of courses on masculinity and fraternities alike probably the healthiest way forward here.
3
One of the few things I remember from High School literature were the moments in The Illiad when these mighty heros weep, particular when Priam breaks down and, as I recall, has to hug it out with Achilles. Certainly, if the originial war story can have men showing genuine emotion and comradeship, then there's nothing necessary about this idea of the stoic warrior.
2
Masculinity course. Really?
What is the point in going on.
What is the point in going on.
8
I'd say that the 400% higher suicide rate among men is a pretty good reason for "going on".
18
Actually men and women attempt suicide at a similar rate. Men simply choose more effective means or do it in a less attention seeking way where they can't be talked out of it.
1
"Teaching Men to Be Emotionally Honest'
Please don't.
The over-educated elite is determined to feminize all males until there will be no perceived difference between the genders (wait...gender is only a 'social construct' and has nothing whatsoever to do with your genitals!) and the best world will be one where all of us will behave like females, because obviously that is the only 'right' way to be.
Until, of course, something unpleasant (or, heaven forbid, violent) needs to be dealt with and then women expect the men to rush right in, while denigrating them for doing so, after which the women will explain how they did it 'wrong'.
That so many young men have bought into this fallacy does not bode well for our future, because (news!) the world is a brutal and nasty place once you leave your safe suburban neighborhood and ivy-covered college campuses.
It was reported that many of the one million Middle Eastern migrant males in Europe believed they could march through any country at will, because European men were 'weak and effeminate' and would not protect their countries and even their own women.
Hard to argue with that assessment...
Please don't.
The over-educated elite is determined to feminize all males until there will be no perceived difference between the genders (wait...gender is only a 'social construct' and has nothing whatsoever to do with your genitals!) and the best world will be one where all of us will behave like females, because obviously that is the only 'right' way to be.
Until, of course, something unpleasant (or, heaven forbid, violent) needs to be dealt with and then women expect the men to rush right in, while denigrating them for doing so, after which the women will explain how they did it 'wrong'.
That so many young men have bought into this fallacy does not bode well for our future, because (news!) the world is a brutal and nasty place once you leave your safe suburban neighborhood and ivy-covered college campuses.
It was reported that many of the one million Middle Eastern migrant males in Europe believed they could march through any country at will, because European men were 'weak and effeminate' and would not protect their countries and even their own women.
Hard to argue with that assessment...
25
You know why the world is a brutal and nasty place?
Because it's full of men who would rather die or kill someone else than have to face their own emotional reality. And yes, women are often complicit in this development, but we're hardly in charge of it.
Hard to argue with that assessment, too.
Because it's full of men who would rather die or kill someone else than have to face their own emotional reality. And yes, women are often complicit in this development, but we're hardly in charge of it.
Hard to argue with that assessment, too.
54
It is very easy to argue with it, and your assumption that women don't deal with the nasty and unpleasant bits of life-- which all too often include men who are insisting on behaving like violent idiots.
The idea that we shouldn't socialize men so that women can be "protected" from men who are not socialized isn't even an argument, it is a a con game of the worst sort.
The idea that we shouldn't socialize men so that women can be "protected" from men who are not socialized isn't even an argument, it is a a con game of the worst sort.
13
No, easy to argue with that assessment. Women are totally in charge of that. They could very easily choose gentle nice guys to father the next generation but keep stubbornly choosing the opposite, then wonder why the world is a violent place. And then they emotionally wean their sons at tender ages to toughen them up so they can go out and play because mothers are tired of raising them and want to push them out of the nest. So boys learn at a very young age that the world thinks you're a zero unless you're a winner or at least a tough survivor, while girls are taught that they're valuable and special just because they exist.
We could also explore the ridiculous aspects of this article comparing boys and girls in school when a large fraction of it is due to either an overwhelmingly female teaching profession that ostracizes men, or the very boring biological fact that boys mature about two years later than girls.
We could also explore the ridiculous aspects of this article comparing boys and girls in school when a large fraction of it is due to either an overwhelmingly female teaching profession that ostracizes men, or the very boring biological fact that boys mature about two years later than girls.
3
I've been aware of this for a long, long time. That's why my spouse and I did our best to make sure our son did not grow up to be a jerk. We saw other boys being treated roughly by their father's who constantly tossed them around and wrestled with them. They were constantly encouraged to be in rough physical activity - throwing balls, rolling around on the ground play fighting with each other, things like that. We did none of that with our son. We encouraged him to use his energy in team sports and he played ice hockey for years, but never encouraged the constant rough play. We also encouraged him to play music and he played in school ensembles, sometimes three at once, for years. He's never had a problem expressing his feeling so we let him have at it. The result? He's not a jerk. He treats women with respect. They love him. He has many women friends who call him for advice. He spent last night comforting a young woman whose boyfriend had been killed in a car crash. He usually has a "girlfriend" although at this point in his life he's more interested in friends. We are so proud and happy we raised a son who is sensitive to his emotions as well as other people's. Right now he's training to be a paramedic because he wants to "save lives" more than anything.
160
As the mother of 4- and 6-year-old boys, this is nice to read, although sadly I haven't been able to get either of them interested in an instrument yet!
2
Ladies, show of hands here: Is anything sexier than a weepy, emotive, utterly in touch with his feelings guy?
Ladies?
Ladies?
18
Whether a man who is emotionally honest is sexy depends on the individual in question. However since the women in his life is not exhausted from dealing with this emotions that he refuses to outline but makes very clear he is feeling, (and no doubt furious in reaction to the angry outburst he used to hide them), he's liable to have a much more willing partner, much, much more willing.
Being emotionally honest doesn't mean you are weeping all the time, or throwing your tender emotions about willy nilly on hapless passer-bys either. Women don't do that so they would not expect men to. They want men to actually talk about what they are feeling, (the extent to which will depend on the woman in question) which can be as lightweight as "I'm nervous about this test, this date, this speech." Instead of I've got this. That admission makes us like you more. Or a little heavier like, "I really liked last night, we seemed to have a real connection, and I'd like to see you again." instead of, 'Later, maybe we'll catch up sometime again." That's going to get you another night unless she wasn't interested, and if she wasn't interested, she wasn't, get it? Or yes, sometimes even weeping, when appropriate, a breakup, an ill family member, a dead dog even to some extent a lost job. A man crying over those things won't ruin his chances of women wanting to go to bed with him. It might even improve them.
Being emotionally honest doesn't mean you are weeping all the time, or throwing your tender emotions about willy nilly on hapless passer-bys either. Women don't do that so they would not expect men to. They want men to actually talk about what they are feeling, (the extent to which will depend on the woman in question) which can be as lightweight as "I'm nervous about this test, this date, this speech." Instead of I've got this. That admission makes us like you more. Or a little heavier like, "I really liked last night, we seemed to have a real connection, and I'd like to see you again." instead of, 'Later, maybe we'll catch up sometime again." That's going to get you another night unless she wasn't interested, and if she wasn't interested, she wasn't, get it? Or yes, sometimes even weeping, when appropriate, a breakup, an ill family member, a dead dog even to some extent a lost job. A man crying over those things won't ruin his chances of women wanting to go to bed with him. It might even improve them.
11
Proof by Counterexample: I, a lady, chose my last boyfriend precisely because he was self-aware and able to talk about tough things with me without breaking down. I admired his emotional strength.
4
Only a guy with simple black-and-white thinking and a chip on his shoulder.
4
This issue has many facets. In our preschool I can already see the gap between boys and girls. Girls show up on their first day able and ready to do many basic things, such as wash their hands or put on their shoes. So often our boys just look at us helplessly when we ask them to do it themselves. Mothers do these things for their boys, while girls are encouraged to be independent from a young age. Our preschool is often a boys first experience of having to do many tasks themselves. It plants a seed for a troubling dynamic later in life in how boys view personal responsibility and the women in their lives. Maybe it's the reason why men often depend on one sole individual (female partners) for so much of their support. Why they don't maintain a network of friends and family to buffer them emotionally. Why we see domestic violence situations whenever a woman decides to leave a man. It has to start early. College seminars and male studies are helpful but by then the pattern has been set.
137
As a father of a boy and girl I can't help wondering how much of this is biology. I would love for my son (age 4) to be more independent (he refused to hold his bottle until 9 months and still wants me to feed him and wipe his bottom). My daughter (age 2) wants to do everything by herself and held her own bottle at 4 months. Just ask my wife if she encourages our son to do things himself! Obviously this is an n of 2 study, but they have so many differences that seem so temperamental. It is hard to imagine that mothers or fathers just love tying their boys shoes so much more than their girls shoes.
20
I had some friends in college who had a roommate whose sister was two years behind us at the same school. She would walk over to her brother's on-campus apartment to cook, clean, and do laundry. These were not my primary set of friends but I knew him and his later wife well enough to feel sorry for her.
3
"Why we see domestic violence situations whenever a woman decides to leave a man" -- this is patently false. There are large numbers of men who do not commit acts of domestic violence, and some of them have been left by their wives or girlfriends.
1
Geez I am so tired of this. Who was it that decided that men are all screwed up and need to be changed? When did that start? It seems to be reaching some sort of nauseating crescendo. I sure see a lot more articles about men not being giving, emotionally available, emotionally honest, whatever. Who decided we were that way to begin with, and then that we needed to change so we weren't that any longer? A lot of people sure have made a lot of money trying to teach men, or change men, or shape men, or whatever. Anybody out there share my point of view that rather than trying to change men, how about accepting that we're different and learning to deal with that difference. Rather than try to change us. Yea, yea, I know I'm a neanderthal (not really), but point made. Please don't Recommend this post which will affirm my position.
15
@ JohnO: '...Who decided we were that way to begin with, and then that we needed to change so we weren't that any longer?...'
Women, specifically single mothers who raise their sons to be just like the daughters they always wanted.
Thanks for that.
Women, specifically single mothers who raise their sons to be just like the daughters they always wanted.
Thanks for that.
2
But you aren't different. That's the problem. And because you keep pretending to be you end up doing violent things to people (90% of violent criminals men) and failing in school though you are well able to compete and pulling increasingly back from life.
Insisting on this toxic vision of masculinity is literally killing men (and boys) and certainly isn't doing women any good at all as we are often the recipients of your violence and scorn.
So yeah, people think it may be time to drop the facade.
Insisting on this toxic vision of masculinity is literally killing men (and boys) and certainly isn't doing women any good at all as we are often the recipients of your violence and scorn.
So yeah, people think it may be time to drop the facade.
18
Did you even read the article? Especially that first paragraph about the toddler? People haven't suddenly "decided" that men "need to change". People have been emotionally damaging their boys for generations, very likely feeding the tragically high suicide rates among men vs. women. Is that suicide rate disparity, all by itself, not a reason to take a long look at how we're socializing boys?
8
Finally, after all the articles on what girls have to do to prevent sexual assaults and protect their bodies, minds, hearts, and spirits, in this brave new world of sexuality they are entering, an article that notes the pernicious effects on young men (and women) when they treat other people like means to their ends.
I am not at all suggesting that colleges teach religion (in any but a scholarly sense), but a class or two in Ethics/Moral Philosophy should be required, either stand-alone, or as part of the large Western Civ requirement. And sexual ethics and social media should be part of that discussion, even if it's only to invalidate that old canard about all being fair in love and war. Whole classes are done on the notion of Just Wars in the military sense. A little justice and empathy in the war between the sexes wouldn't be a bad thing.
Colleges should back this up with a serious effort to the factor most responsible for bad or irresponsible sexual behavior: curb underage and binge drinking on campus. Just to show that their money is where their ethical mouth is.
I am not at all suggesting that colleges teach religion (in any but a scholarly sense), but a class or two in Ethics/Moral Philosophy should be required, either stand-alone, or as part of the large Western Civ requirement. And sexual ethics and social media should be part of that discussion, even if it's only to invalidate that old canard about all being fair in love and war. Whole classes are done on the notion of Just Wars in the military sense. A little justice and empathy in the war between the sexes wouldn't be a bad thing.
Colleges should back this up with a serious effort to the factor most responsible for bad or irresponsible sexual behavior: curb underage and binge drinking on campus. Just to show that their money is where their ethical mouth is.
8
I've sometimes thought of men as being like Vulcans on Star Trek. Spock and his kind are supposed to be purely "logical" and impervious to emotions. However, in truth they have extremely powerful feelings -- so powerful that Vulcan culture is fixated on rigorously suppressing them. After reading this fine article, I think the analogy with how real-life boys and men are socialized may be more on point than I'd thought.
12
This is how the patriarchy hurts both men and women. Men have at least as much to gain by being allowed/encouraged to experience and express a fuller spectrum of human experience.
53
The "patriarchy" is what leads campus feminists and women's groups to protest men's centers and male studies?
6
No, that would be ignorance. The same force driving men to protest men's centers and male studies.
2
Neal, is this a widespread problem?
The part about isolating even from other male friends starting at about 15 really resonates. I always had a solid group of friends. But for some previously inexplicable reason, at about 15 I started to focus more and more on romantic relationships at the expense of relationships with guy friends. At 33, I have absolutely no guy friends, but an arguably healthy relationship with my girlfriend.
16
what?! you're not married to her? What are you waiting for?
2
"In many ways, the young men who take my seminar — typically, 20 percent of the class"
So, only 20% of the class is male, 80% is female. Remarkable. The women want to know what goes on with the guys, but the very subject seems to frighten guys off.
If society allowed and encouraged men and boys to cry, to smile, to be friendly, etc. there would be less violence, fewer wars. Poor guys. Look at ISIS - it's so easy to manipulate a young man, even convince him to kill and die for the honor of being a hero or a "real man".
I guess men have a long way to go on the way of being more human and less like apes wearing clothes.
So, only 20% of the class is male, 80% is female. Remarkable. The women want to know what goes on with the guys, but the very subject seems to frighten guys off.
If society allowed and encouraged men and boys to cry, to smile, to be friendly, etc. there would be less violence, fewer wars. Poor guys. Look at ISIS - it's so easy to manipulate a young man, even convince him to kill and die for the honor of being a hero or a "real man".
I guess men have a long way to go on the way of being more human and less like apes wearing clothes.
16
No, the men are too busy taking engineering classes to bother with soft sciences!
2
There's the pot calling the kettle black.
2
someone has had some woman issues ^^^
The co-created gender paradigm is, like so many other social conventions, evolving (falling apart?) ... and it hasn't yet reached the point in the larger culture of being too painful to be tolerated. There are powerful examples in organizations like the ManKind Project of groups of men getting together to focus on this evolution and create spaces where men can do the work to break the gender-box that Kimmel and others speak to. There are, as others have pointed out - lots of non-conformists out there. If you want to encourage and support this growing shift as a man ... go find a men's group. If you're a woman who wants a more equitable and safe society ... encourage men in your life to find a men's group.
5
Living an inauthentic life, whatever that means for each individual, catches up with people, particularly men, and eventually, does them in, in one way or another (stress related illness, alcoholism, suicide - slow or fast). Getting in touch with our core selves and our emotions, and speaking the honest truth to our partners and colleagues, can go a long way to healing us.
I have noticed a striking trend of passive aggression in middle aged men. Women often divorce these men, and these men are everywhere to be found on dating websites. Often these men call themselves "nice" guys. Truly nice people have no need for the moniker.
How about this: let's encourage men to become more authentic (not "nicer" or more people pleasing), and encourage them to stop being so scared of womens' emotions (appropriate or over-reactive). And how about us women deal with our own disappointment when men become honest, cry more, or reveal ambiguity in their feelings for us. Let men be honest and real, and let us put on our big girl panties and deal with it.
I have noticed a striking trend of passive aggression in middle aged men. Women often divorce these men, and these men are everywhere to be found on dating websites. Often these men call themselves "nice" guys. Truly nice people have no need for the moniker.
How about this: let's encourage men to become more authentic (not "nicer" or more people pleasing), and encourage them to stop being so scared of womens' emotions (appropriate or over-reactive). And how about us women deal with our own disappointment when men become honest, cry more, or reveal ambiguity in their feelings for us. Let men be honest and real, and let us put on our big girl panties and deal with it.
301
These self-appointed nice guys seem to only show interest in women who prefer jocks/bad boys etc. Perhaps if instead Mr. Nice Guy was actually turned on by women who prefer nice guys they would stop bemoaning how nice guys supposedly finish Iast. think you mean to say that the girls you desired to date happen to prefer jocks. Not all women desire Tarzan types.
I agree and highly recommend everyone read Terry Real's book, The New Rules for Marriage.
Honest like when we ask them if we are fat and they tell us 'yes'? That honest?
1
Watch TV. Read the papers. In reporting or demonstrating heroic gestures- males' are physical strength and courage (think: Mayor rushes into burning building...); females' are speaking out.
I hope your expectations remain high for the males entering your class. Not all are raised according to your experience/ data; parents are evolving too.
I hope your expectations remain high for the males entering your class. Not all are raised according to your experience/ data; parents are evolving too.
2
As anyone who has gone through high school and college or has had teenage daughters will attest, girls' high emotional expression has a price: emotionally manipulative and mean spirited behavior. As my wife always says, the movie "Mean Girls" isn't far from the truth. I want my boys to learn how to be in touch with their emotions and comfortable sharing their feelings with friends and family. Do I want them to behave like teenage girls? No Thanks!!
67
Not all girls are like that, that too is something we tolerate that we should not.
6
The "pall of silence and anxiety that hangs over campus rest rooms"?!
You cannot be serious. While I know this article is supposed to be about male emotional honesty, it seems to be more about how immature and self-obsessed all college students are now.
Here's an idea; grow up and think about someone besides yourself. The sooner the better.
(Should I have attached a warning that some of these precious vessels may be offended by my tone?)
Unbelievable.
You cannot be serious. While I know this article is supposed to be about male emotional honesty, it seems to be more about how immature and self-obsessed all college students are now.
Here's an idea; grow up and think about someone besides yourself. The sooner the better.
(Should I have attached a warning that some of these precious vessels may be offended by my tone?)
Unbelievable.
9
Exactly right. How would a woman know about the actual atmosphere of a men's restroom other than through hearsay? Is this what passes for "scholarship"? Movie's are not real life.
Total silliness. How about universities do what they are supposed to be doing - educating college students so they are qualified for the work place.
2
The purpose of a university education is to teach young people to think critically. That's the best preparation for life in a rapidly changing world.
21
College isn't meant to be a trade school so that plentiful job opportunities abound upon graduation. College is about knowledge, including knowledge of the self and that's hardly silliness.
7
All these worthy studies should start with the bedrock question "What is a man?"
6
A man is whatever today's communist-inspired modern feminists say he should be.
7
Barry - how would you answer the question? I'm seriously asking.
Can you define what makes a man, without describing attributes that a woman ought to have too? Every time I approach the question of what makes a man, or what makes a woman, I end up with the definition of "grown-up".
Can you define what makes a man, without describing attributes that a woman ought to have too? Every time I approach the question of what makes a man, or what makes a woman, I end up with the definition of "grown-up".
2
Good article. I believe one of the big issues in society is violence and men are far more violent than women. I have always wondered why this is. Is it related to men suppressing certain feelings? I don't know the answer, but it is clearly worth figuring out.
11
How about two million years of evolution, when men were the brave hunters and women were the more timid gatherers?
Shall we simply denigrate men until they too retreat to 'safe spaces' to cry into stuffed animal?
Shall we simply denigrate men until they too retreat to 'safe spaces' to cry into stuffed animal?
5
On women being "timid gatherers." Imagine that you are a prehistoric woman who has her baby wrapped in a cradle-board on her back, and she goes into the meadow or forest, either singly or in a group with other likewise unarmed women, to gather fresh greens, mushrooms, root vegetables, nuts and berries. This is not a job for the faint-of-heart, because she isn't armed; she needs her hands and arms for picking and carrying produce. And there are wild animals out there, like saber-toothed cats, alligators, snakes, bears and lions who are experts at sneaking up on their prey. Not to mention the human predators out there who would happily kidnap her and the baby and take her, her baby, her produce and her skills back to their own settlement. Every minute that she spends alone gathering produce is at risk to her life and the life of the baby on her back, and she knows it. But courage isn't the absence of fear but doing what you have to do in spite of being afraid, and in her case, she has a family to feed.
On the other hand, you've got a group of fifteen or twenty big and burly hunters, armed with clubs, axes, spears, bows and arrows, sneaking up on a grazing antelope, bison or wild boar. Yes, that's dinner, too, but they're hardly unarmed and alone.
On the other hand, you've got a group of fifteen or twenty big and burly hunters, armed with clubs, axes, spears, bows and arrows, sneaking up on a grazing antelope, bison or wild boar. Yes, that's dinner, too, but they're hardly unarmed and alone.
7
Timid gatherers?
Life givers. The women were gatherers and they were life givers. I can hardly imagine what giving birth was like in those days, when so many women just died giving birth. It takes a certain kind of courage to bring down a buffalo, but I'll hazard a guess that it took far more "huevos" (in more ways than one) to bring a new life in to the tribe than it did to go on a hunt for edible rodents.
Life givers. The women were gatherers and they were life givers. I can hardly imagine what giving birth was like in those days, when so many women just died giving birth. It takes a certain kind of courage to bring down a buffalo, but I'll hazard a guess that it took far more "huevos" (in more ways than one) to bring a new life in to the tribe than it did to go on a hunt for edible rodents.
3
"Walk into splintered sunlight
Inch your way through dead dreams
to another land.
Maybe you're tired and broken
Your tongue is twisted
with words half spoken
and thoughts unclear.
What do you want me to do
to do for you to see you through?
A box of rain will ease the pain
and love will see you through."
Phil Lesh
Robert Hunter
1970
Inch your way through dead dreams
to another land.
Maybe you're tired and broken
Your tongue is twisted
with words half spoken
and thoughts unclear.
What do you want me to do
to do for you to see you through?
A box of rain will ease the pain
and love will see you through."
Phil Lesh
Robert Hunter
1970
3
Well said!!!
I love this piece. All too often the struggles of the straight American male are cast as diminutive, irrelevant, or imagined, especially when juxtaposed with the victims of true oppression. But that attitude just seems to reinforce traditional understandings of masculinity, and we see the effects when men lash out. It feels counterintuitive to carve out special attention and space to the subset of our society that has historically held all the cards, but without one, I have a hard time seeing how men can properly adapt to a new paradigm in which their role can and must change. The redefining of what it means to be a man necessitates giving men a space to take an honest accounting of their emotions, fears, and sense of self.
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"It feels counterintuitive to carve out special attention and space to the subset of our society that has historically held all the cards"
They haven't, but your biased views are now showing.
They haven't, but your biased views are now showing.
Everyone has struggles--straight males, straight females, crooked males, crooked females, gay, straight, short, tall, big, small, old, young, the one percenters, the ninety-nine percenters, the percenters who do not know what percent they are as they are not fond of math equations, etc. Divisive article, divisive comments. Maybe in a few hundred years we will get it right--or left--or down the middle.
What cards would that be exactly? And to what culture do you refer?
What might have happened (this is my preferred scenario), if the father had said, "This vaccination is going to hurt. Why don't you take a deep breath & cry as loud as you can !
17
When it was my son, I was explaining probability theory to him--and that a little bit of pain now beats days of being sick later!
3
I find that I barely feel anything when I get my blood drawn or a vaccination. So why not tell the kid that it won't hurt, and if it does hurt it's just a little bit? A lot of the screaming and crying may be from the expectation of pain that's greater than the actual (minimal or nonexistent) pain. Why make something worse than it is?
I know this is straying from the topic, but I think it's something for parents to keep in mind.
I know this is straying from the topic, but I think it's something for parents to keep in mind.
4
I explained to my daughter (age 5, about to get her DPT booster) about her uncle Bobby, whom she'd never met b/c he died of diphtheria as a toddler, leaving his family bereft. If only he could have been vaccinated. And that I knew the shot hurt, and I was sorry about that but it couldn't be helped, and after it was over we'd go for ice cream. As she sat sobbing in my lap while the nurse was getting ready, I whispered to her to think about whether she'd want vanilla or chocolate. She cried but the shot was had without fighting. Crying is not the end of the world, folks.
4
It is not ALL stereotypes. Males ARE different from females.
But the tight upper lip is more common among WASPs than among say Hispanics.
So it is culture in part.
But the tight upper lip is more common among WASPs than among say Hispanics.
So it is culture in part.
8
How they are different has little to do with our stereotypes however.
I think Hispanics call it being macho. Come now, WASPs don't do everything wrong.
When I was in college, forty years ago, we learned that, in this country, minorities such as blacks, Mexicans, Italians, gays, women, Jewish people, Catholic people, etc, were allowed to be more emotional than straight WASP men by virtue of their outsider (non-WASP) status. They were held to a "lower" standard which made them exempt from the social expectation of being emotionally constipated.
1
It's mothers that need to accept their sons emotional responses and desires. Give sons dolls and doll houses, doll strollers, kitchen sets, let them choose pink, and allow them all the toys that girls get. Let boys choose. Girls get trucks and cars, and wear pants, but boys never get things to allow them to engage in a warm relationship or act out their caring helping side. It's okay. Boys won't change their gender because they hug and kiss their baby dolls or stuffed animals. It's less the culture and more mothers' childrearing practices that don't allow caring, feeling emotions to be shown.
5
And not fathers' child rearing practices? Why would a boy think to care for his doll if his father doesn't set an example?
6
Spoken like a true marxist-feminist. All will be cured if we give dolls and dresses to boys, and footballs and trucks to girls.
3
It should be both parents, btw. People are going to get lost in that rather than the good point you have about letting children choose without "fear" of what it all "means".
It's certainly a tough issue; based, I suggest, in morality and ethics. If that is so, I would also suggest, regardless of the answer(s), that they be implemented at the middle / high school levels. Post secondary is a little late... maybe too late?
Boys and girls in the current moment are exposed EARLY, EARLY to concepts of human social / sexual intercourse...those impressionable, more malleable, adolescent brains are busy, busy, busy wiring up for life....
But the opens another can of worms doesn't it...we would need awfully good, moral, nonsectarian teachers in those public classrooms, which are full of actively wiring brains.
Quality Teacher Education - round and round we go.
Boys and girls in the current moment are exposed EARLY, EARLY to concepts of human social / sexual intercourse...those impressionable, more malleable, adolescent brains are busy, busy, busy wiring up for life....
But the opens another can of worms doesn't it...we would need awfully good, moral, nonsectarian teachers in those public classrooms, which are full of actively wiring brains.
Quality Teacher Education - round and round we go.
7
The trend in men starts in adolescence and continues into adulthood. Is it a coincidence that this goes hand in hand with puberty and transforming oneself into a person they think women will like?
12
Is it that boys transform themselves into people that they think women will like, or is it that they transform themselves into people that they think that their male peers will like, respect and/or fear? I like men who are funny, sensitive to my feelings, intelligent, affectionate, civilized and romantic, but I have noticed that most straight men don't fit the bill. So who are these men trying to impress? It's certainly not me!
10
I honestly don't know if this is a good thing with WWIII in mind- you know it's coming or has already begun.
I've been taught this way as well, and while I definitely crash down from time to time- like once a month- my subdued emotions have proven convenient many times: being able to make rational decisions at a moment when everyone else is shaking with tears, being able to shield against manipulative people, being able to just carry on when others would crash you know. If I hadn't been so detached, I would've found myself in the pysch ward or on heavy doses of antidepressants surely. But I didn't, I never gave into that. I learned how to switch emotions off like one does a lightbulb (I'm no psychopath either).
But yes, perhaps I can't keep going on like this, something is eating away at my brain.
I've been taught this way as well, and while I definitely crash down from time to time- like once a month- my subdued emotions have proven convenient many times: being able to make rational decisions at a moment when everyone else is shaking with tears, being able to shield against manipulative people, being able to just carry on when others would crash you know. If I hadn't been so detached, I would've found myself in the pysch ward or on heavy doses of antidepressants surely. But I didn't, I never gave into that. I learned how to switch emotions off like one does a lightbulb (I'm no psychopath either).
But yes, perhaps I can't keep going on like this, something is eating away at my brain.
6
@Maarten: Let me give you a clue: Experiencing emotions does NOT prevent someone from making a "rational decision" in a crisis situation. Women know this; men generally don't understand or believe it.
You sound like you'd genuinely benefit from some form of counseling to reconcile the "something" that is "eating away" at your brain. There is a better way to go forward in life, but you'll have to want it & be willing to work toward it.
You sound like you'd genuinely benefit from some form of counseling to reconcile the "something" that is "eating away" at your brain. There is a better way to go forward in life, but you'll have to want it & be willing to work toward it.
7
Hello Maarten,
I don't know, something struck me by your comment that made me want to reach out to you. What you describe sounds like you've experience some very difficult things that may be beyond the general message of this article. Your detachment is a survival mechanism it sounds like and may be practiced by men or women under severe stress or trauma. I often look at emotional health sort of like the health of a river. When a river is able to flood naturally the floods are less violent. When we build the levees to try to prevent the flood it only increases the amount of energy of the river over time so that when it does flood it becomes a much more severe one. That being said sometimes we are even aware of this and so just continue to build the levees higher and higher and maybe we prevent the flood or maybe we don't.
But I can tell you the detachment that keeps you sane and avoids depression is a double edged sword because it can also prevent you from truly feeling the joy in one's life also.
I wish you the best Maarten and hope that you can find a way to stop what you feel is eating away at your brain.
I don't know, something struck me by your comment that made me want to reach out to you. What you describe sounds like you've experience some very difficult things that may be beyond the general message of this article. Your detachment is a survival mechanism it sounds like and may be practiced by men or women under severe stress or trauma. I often look at emotional health sort of like the health of a river. When a river is able to flood naturally the floods are less violent. When we build the levees to try to prevent the flood it only increases the amount of energy of the river over time so that when it does flood it becomes a much more severe one. That being said sometimes we are even aware of this and so just continue to build the levees higher and higher and maybe we prevent the flood or maybe we don't.
But I can tell you the detachment that keeps you sane and avoids depression is a double edged sword because it can also prevent you from truly feeling the joy in one's life also.
I wish you the best Maarten and hope that you can find a way to stop what you feel is eating away at your brain.
11
Maarten, I understand the need to think rationally when one's impulse is to panic. The problem comes, I think, when emotions aren't turned off or set aside, but rather driven underground, to come out in unexpected and uncontrolled ways. If a person can act as needed with tears running down his face, that's better than a person with a cold demeanor who all of a sudden flies into a murderous rage. I think sometimes people who lack self-insight don't think they are emotional, when they definitely are; they just don't see it.
7
"Why isn't there more help for them on campus?"
On campus only? This is pandering concern which does no one any good.
On campus only? This is pandering concern which does no one any good.
"a brotherhood in which respect is proportional to the disrespect heaped onto young women during hookups"
To the extent that this is true - what could be more toxic to relationships, marriage, parenting.
To the extent that this is true - what could be more toxic to relationships, marriage, parenting.
39
The workplace, too.
1
Anyone who can conclude that a brotherhood in any way shape or form prioritizes and idolizes sexual conquests has never been in an actual brotherhood. They are built from shared struggle, emotional intimacy, interests, and many other traits entirely independent from gender or orientation. I'm tired of my brotherhood getting smited under the label of "fraternity" when we were the real thing. Use a different word to refer to the bad guys
What's interesting, and somewhat disheartening, is the extent to which the pattern discussed in the article is part of the gay, as well as the straight, male experience. While far from universal, it is common for online dating ads to specify a desire for "straight-acting" or "masculine" men, meaning at least in part men who mirror straight male attitudes like those mentioned by Mr. Reiner. The hyper-masculine image projected by many, especially younger, gay men can be viewed as a reaction against the stereotype that gay men are too feminine in style and affect, but it still can be a trap for the those men who try to be more macho then their straight counterparts. All this can lead to seemingly airtight emotional closure on the part of some gay men, with its obvious harm to their ability to form fulfilling relationships.
27
Straight acting is normal male behavior.
4
A beautiful article and I am happy to see Stony Brook is taking the lead in this area.. I'm struck also by the way Bollywood films have male actors who are excellent cryers, and no one questions their masculinity. This, in a country where gender roles have been enforced strictly for hundreds of years.Is this hyper-masculinity an American thing, because to me it reeks of Supermensch and facism..
12
Estrogen therapy will be much more effective than taking classes.
Yes, I always find it interesting, how often I hear, mostly from males, how females are so emotional. What they really mean is that females will actually cry and express sadness; which most men never allow themselves to do, to the point where to even hear someone cry is almost unbearable for them. Anger, on the other hand, is the emotion that men are allowed to express, and most men seem to forget that anger is, in fact an emotion. Interesting that sadness unexpressed often turns to anger; and worse. I predict that as males are permitted to express sadness, there will be a direct correlation with the de-escalation of wars.
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Actually, what we really mean- and I don't mean to come at you- is that we don't get how you let yourself be so carried away like that. Nothing wrong with being emotional, but from my experience with my male friends, most of us deem it as a sign of weakness, although we are a little bit envious that we never could get away with it like women do. We would be laughing stock for years after.
6
Yes.
There is a disconnect with people who can read article after article about a man who killed his estranged wife or girlfriend, and/or their kids and even their parents and siblings, yet maintain that it's women who are emotional. Rage is an emotion. Rage against close family members, even more so.
There is a disconnect with people who can read article after article about a man who killed his estranged wife or girlfriend, and/or their kids and even their parents and siblings, yet maintain that it's women who are emotional. Rage is an emotion. Rage against close family members, even more so.
189
As a woman I experienced the opposite - I was allowed to express sadness but not anger. That bottled up emotion oath the years wrecked my health and my life. Each gender seems to have its approved and disapproved list o f emotions.
180
Simone de Beauvoir already wrote about the problem of the difference in education when it comes to boys and girls - from birth onwards, but the parents and society. Why is it that more than half a century later, we're still taking about it?
6
To your question, because so far as I can tell, the human search for truth and understanding is iterative -- not instantaneous. Any profound idea that calls into question the way things are requires times for individuals to absorb and digest. Time to reach shared understandings of problems and consensus on how to address them. Given the complexity of the issue, half a century isn't too bad, I think. It's important to affirm the value of the continued study (i.e. work based upon not only intuition but empirical evidence) and accretion of understanding of these issues.
4
I am questioning whether the "masculinity" described here is the mainstream
norm. There are many variations on the "theme."
I grew up in an upper middle class Jewish household, where the masculine "norm" was never discussed. I never heard about men dominating women until I talked with friends in college. I always assumed that women, as in my family, were vocal and asserted themselves. Men cried as did women in my extended family. Most of the women in my family were college educated- this may be a factor.
There are a lot of implied "masculine" norms in cultures. The male as the achiever, breadwinner, mechanic, not involved in household chores. No longer.
Women are carpenters, mechanics, firefighters, police. They fight in combat. They have equal privileges in most organized religions.
The masculine norm is highly variegated- it's quite cultural. What about
the Asian "masculine" norm? Not discussed here.
One important point is missed in the article. Men not emoting or expressing themselves is not only taught. It's hormonal-physiological. Many men feel more stable by not emoting and not sharing intimacies of their lives. I experienced this as a young adult.
For females- I am observe that it's the opposite- sharing and emoting- which may enhance their emotional stability.
Masculinity is not only taught, it's physiological.
norm. There are many variations on the "theme."
I grew up in an upper middle class Jewish household, where the masculine "norm" was never discussed. I never heard about men dominating women until I talked with friends in college. I always assumed that women, as in my family, were vocal and asserted themselves. Men cried as did women in my extended family. Most of the women in my family were college educated- this may be a factor.
There are a lot of implied "masculine" norms in cultures. The male as the achiever, breadwinner, mechanic, not involved in household chores. No longer.
Women are carpenters, mechanics, firefighters, police. They fight in combat. They have equal privileges in most organized religions.
The masculine norm is highly variegated- it's quite cultural. What about
the Asian "masculine" norm? Not discussed here.
One important point is missed in the article. Men not emoting or expressing themselves is not only taught. It's hormonal-physiological. Many men feel more stable by not emoting and not sharing intimacies of their lives. I experienced this as a young adult.
For females- I am observe that it's the opposite- sharing and emoting- which may enhance their emotional stability.
Masculinity is not only taught, it's physiological.
127
Equal privileges in most organized religions?! Check out Orthodox Judaism, the Catholic Church, your typical mosque, the Mormon Church, and I think you could find other examples from "most organized religions". Since the Catholic Church and Islam represent very significant percentages of members of organized religions, I suspect you need to rethink the word "most".
6
"Women are carpenters, mechanics, firefighters, police. They fight in combat. They have equal privileges in most organized religions."
But NOT in equal numbers. In America we have an "emotional need" to believe that the genders are indistinguishable and use the relatively few women carpenters of soldiers as proof that IF we did not "condition" men and women, the numbers would be equal. False, but comforting to believe.
America defines itself by equality and if America admitted that the two genders are different, America would not be America. True, America did treat the two genders as different for a long time, but the Declaration of Independence was bound to triumph sooner or later over culture (and over common sense).
Take a look at the list of female Nobel prize winners and you will see how skewed is the distribution. There are lots of women in literature, in peace and in physiology and medicine. There has ONLY been one in Economics, and her work, though very important, is quite different in flavor from that of men like Arrow or Aumann. They are mathematicians doing Economics, she was a social scientist.
http://www.almaz.com/nobel/women.html
But NOT in equal numbers. In America we have an "emotional need" to believe that the genders are indistinguishable and use the relatively few women carpenters of soldiers as proof that IF we did not "condition" men and women, the numbers would be equal. False, but comforting to believe.
America defines itself by equality and if America admitted that the two genders are different, America would not be America. True, America did treat the two genders as different for a long time, but the Declaration of Independence was bound to triumph sooner or later over culture (and over common sense).
Take a look at the list of female Nobel prize winners and you will see how skewed is the distribution. There are lots of women in literature, in peace and in physiology and medicine. There has ONLY been one in Economics, and her work, though very important, is quite different in flavor from that of men like Arrow or Aumann. They are mathematicians doing Economics, she was a social scientist.
http://www.almaz.com/nobel/women.html
1
Very true. One additional point is that much of physiology can change. I recall a study once of stay-at-home dads whose testosterone and estrogen levels were tested and compared to career dads. As you can probably intuit the estrogen levels of stay-at-home dads increased significantly and testosterone levels dropped. We adjust physiological in many ways.
The author is stereotyping far too much about the very group he is trying to help.
42
The truth is that women may be getting the degrees, but all the high earning professions are dominated by men. Even the professions where women dominate, the high earners tend to be men. At my work place, the average worker has a masters degree and the average salary is 100K+. As I look around me, the typical male is in his 40's, married with a family, with the family the focus of his life. The typical female is in her 40's Single or Divorced with work the focus of her life. If a man gets divorced, there is along line of suitors waiting for him, from the secretaries to the directors. No matter how many degrees a woman earns or what her W-2 says, society only validates her once she gets her Mrs. Men don't need to start behaving like women to get ahead.
20
It depends on what you mean by "behaving like women" and by "ahead", Rahul. Do you measure "getting ahead" by money earned, period, and consider that that is the only think one should be concerned with? Do you consider it "behaving like a woman" if a man doesn't lie about his feelings, to himself or others?
14
Why did this article overlook the 1960s-70s "sensitive new man" movement?
7
Because it didn't really take hold, or we wouldn't be having this discussion.
3
I am curious as to why suddenly, men are academically falling behind women. This gist of the article seems to intimate that it is unmanly to try too hard in school and thus boys/young men are spending less time working hard in school. However, the belief that men should not show emotions, primarily expresses sadness and disappointment through anger, eschews intimate connections with their male friends...all of this is not new. So, is lack of interest in school new or is what is new is that girls now have no barriers to education and the way that most schooling is set up suits girls better than it does boys?
9
I wondered that too. I think that it is because girls now have no, or possibly less, barriers. I don't know about schooling being set up in ways that suit girls. Back in my day, (I know, when dinosaurs trod the earth,) boys and girls both were expected to behave and to do their work. No one thought it was too much to ask of a boy. It's possible that boys and girls both are suffering from a lack of recess in elementary school, and too much homework, and that girls are just suffering less. I wouldn't call that suiting girls better, though.
20
I left academia over 20 years ago, but even then, it was uncool for male students to be interested in academic subjects. I'll never forget the day that a young man admitted that he liked the college's required World Civilizations class and was booed by the other males in the class.
Could pop culture be a factor in this accelerating trend. It seems that current blockbuster movies are mostly geared to portrayals of aggressive behavior of one sort or another. "The Martian" was unusual in having a main character who solved his problems with brain power instead of fire power or muscle power or rampant vandalism.
Could pop culture be a factor in this accelerating trend. It seems that current blockbuster movies are mostly geared to portrayals of aggressive behavior of one sort or another. "The Martian" was unusual in having a main character who solved his problems with brain power instead of fire power or muscle power or rampant vandalism.
9
I was a substitute teacher twenty-ish years ago, and back then, the classes were still designed to keep the boys from acting out in class. The girls weren't a problem, but squirrelly boys were. I remember that in one of my classes, I had to show a movie about sharks. Very violent, very bloody, lots of feeding frenzies. The boys sat still for it and watched. The girls' eyes were glazed over but at least they sat still and were quiet. If the movie about sharks were not violent and bloody but showed nesting and social behavior instead, I suspect that the boys would have been throwing spitballs and paper airplanes and making rude noises. But that was twenty years ago. Maybe times have changed.
1
Thank you for the thought-provoking article. I will have my two son read this and hear what they have to say. This is the first for me - never been the first to comment on a NY Times article. Are the reasons for the lack or slowness to comment similar to "the male crying in the crowded university foyer." This is sad and worrisome.
24
There are many YouTube videos of similar social "experiments" that go further than crying and into simulated violence. It goes as one would expect. People come to the woman's defense (as they should for anyone being assaulted) and either do nothing for a man or openly laugh.
1
I now how you feel. Go girl!
BTW: There is always first time ... in everything.
BTW: There is always first time ... in everything.
The problem of boys not caring about grades nearly as much as girls do, definitely appears to be specific to western culture, or at least is not shared by all cultures. Asian cultures (both Far East and India) in particular, place a huge emphasis on academic performance for BOTH boys and girls. There is of course an obvious downside of too much pressure to excel in that regard, and we don't want that, but we could still do a better job with motivating boys. Parents, schools, and communities need to do a better job of canceling out the messages in the media that being a football/sports star is the only path to glory.
157
The insane amounts of money paid to sports stars shout and scream convincingly that this is the only or the best path to glory. And the most well-paid sportsman of all, today, is the champion boxer. Go punch the other guy's face and there's glory and fortune for you. How can you teach a boy otherwise? The numbers speak for themselves.
6
You make an excellent point, for to be 'bookish' in the U.S. is to be seen as 'geeky', especially in the younger years, and also depending on the type of environment in which you live, go to school, your social circles, etc. In the 'tougher' environments, kids focus more on being seen as 'cool', and this can be attained by appearing 'apathetic' about studies, and/or by excelling in sports as you state.
3
Sorry, the equal emphasis on grades for girls and boys is observed in a tiny sliver of the Indian society (which otherwise is not a real civil society, and often medieval in its attitude and behavior toward women).
Anyone who has lived there knows that Indian women must overcome formidable odds in every sphere of life (unless they are from very rich, politically connected families). And after having so done (as many do), they can kick their male counterparts' behinds in virtually any field.
At any level, Indian women are stronger, smarter, and more capable of taking pain than are men. Equality did not get them there, baptism by fire did.
Oddly, there no real emphasis on maleness in India. Indian men only pick on the weak - such as women or the poor. Indian men will never defend themselves, never go to war to correct the wounds inflicted on us. We will burn our widows, but will do nothing when a rag tag bunch of terrorists pretty much invade our cities. We will sell out everything for a bribe, we will bribe every temple seeking redemption (dirt poor country, very rich temples). And despite this emphasis on corruption, and decidedly un-male society, the ethos of misogyny is palpable.
The point is thus. Maleness and misogyny are not opposing constructs.
Kalidan
Anyone who has lived there knows that Indian women must overcome formidable odds in every sphere of life (unless they are from very rich, politically connected families). And after having so done (as many do), they can kick their male counterparts' behinds in virtually any field.
At any level, Indian women are stronger, smarter, and more capable of taking pain than are men. Equality did not get them there, baptism by fire did.
Oddly, there no real emphasis on maleness in India. Indian men only pick on the weak - such as women or the poor. Indian men will never defend themselves, never go to war to correct the wounds inflicted on us. We will burn our widows, but will do nothing when a rag tag bunch of terrorists pretty much invade our cities. We will sell out everything for a bribe, we will bribe every temple seeking redemption (dirt poor country, very rich temples). And despite this emphasis on corruption, and decidedly un-male society, the ethos of misogyny is palpable.
The point is thus. Maleness and misogyny are not opposing constructs.
Kalidan
In our culture that college is about "finding yourself" and debauchery. Classes are something that fit into a social schedule not the other way around. When your life revolves around hook-ups and parties, its no wonder students need to learn "emotional honesty."
Not all students are like this, of course. It's the working-class students try to work as hard as their parents. Women of color in my classroom are sharp and engaged. The students on the GI Bill (usually men) are eager to read and discuss, probably because they learned discipline, respect, and community in a life-threatening environment. But overall, men are much more disruptive in my class and I've heard this from other university instructors. Women rarely plagiarize;it is routine with men.
I've come to the conclusion that many men are not as successful in the modern classroom because good students have to acknowledge someone is more knowledgeable about a subject than they are. Also, you have to do work. This is not something that our populist culture teaches boys and men because listening is passive and they have opinions!
The anecdote about MIchael Kimmel is telling. Instead of the student listening to KImmel and considering why his points made him uncomfortable, he felt compelled to argue with him. It's a shame this man was so resistant to learning that he got nothing out of a lecture from a scholar that spent his career studying how gender norms are also very harmful to men.
Not all students are like this, of course. It's the working-class students try to work as hard as their parents. Women of color in my classroom are sharp and engaged. The students on the GI Bill (usually men) are eager to read and discuss, probably because they learned discipline, respect, and community in a life-threatening environment. But overall, men are much more disruptive in my class and I've heard this from other university instructors. Women rarely plagiarize;it is routine with men.
I've come to the conclusion that many men are not as successful in the modern classroom because good students have to acknowledge someone is more knowledgeable about a subject than they are. Also, you have to do work. This is not something that our populist culture teaches boys and men because listening is passive and they have opinions!
The anecdote about MIchael Kimmel is telling. Instead of the student listening to KImmel and considering why his points made him uncomfortable, he felt compelled to argue with him. It's a shame this man was so resistant to learning that he got nothing out of a lecture from a scholar that spent his career studying how gender norms are also very harmful to men.
74
I've heard boys described as being like candy that has a hard outer shell and a soft and sweet inner core. Wheras girls are often the opposite--warm and soft on the outside yet with hardened steel deep down. It seems like boys shells get a few extra coatings of armor as they get older while girls get better at connecting emotionally. It would be great if our culture encouraged boys to fully express themselves and show their full range of emotional responses, which are frequently supressed. It would also be nice to see male/female friendships encouraged and accepted as that may ultimately be the best way of breaking harmful stereotypes and gender norms.
22
So, I guess my question is: Do we try to start teaching boys from a young age that they're allowed to be themselves and not caricatures of machismo, or do we have to wait until after they've internalized all of it, and teach them to un-learn these gendered/socially acceptable behaviors when they have the cognitive resources to do so? Is there a better one to start with? How many parents of young boys need to tell their sons it's okay to cry and do well in school, etc, before they actually do so and don't give in to social pressures? And-- do these parents who try to teach their sons (and daughters, too) about social expectations and being themselves NEED some kind of familiarity in gendered studies, perhaps-- or can they just wing it?
1
I've always thought that the primary source of misogyny is men's envy of the emotional range of women. The loss of that emotional range is the trade-off for staying in control and maintaining power - but what an empty power it is. Even after a lifetime of stripping away the external influences that shape the emotional desert there are precious few models that define what a man is. Perhaps that's because gender becomes less important in the process of attaining wisdom.
330
Great comment, Will. I've tried for a long time to figure out what "manly" means because for every attribute I can think of that men ought to aspire to, women ought to have those as well.
9
Interesting. I have generally chalked up misogyny to the fact that women bear children, a power that men have tried in innumerable ways throughout history to control. The fortitude required to be a woman capable of childbirth is immeasurable, whether or not she ever has children. Knowing, as all men do, that they lack that capability drives men to try to establish their dominance in every other aspect of life. It's really quite simple.
5
The source of misogyny isn't necessarily envy. A source of misogyny is in the denial or contempt of feelings to a point where they are not only stripped of value but have negative value and therefore are a threat that must be extinguished. Envy is rooted in what a person values but does not possess. Men who envy the emotional range of women (and are aware of it) are at least at the stage where they value that emotional range. Take me for example. And I love women in all their complexity. It's not the finish line (there isn't one) as growth and wisdom are journeys and not destinations.
2
The real "dishonesty" here is a gender discourse that refuses to recognize the way that women impose the very same masculine norms we're all supposed to attribute to the "patriarchy." Women are half of society and they create the social landscape in which male identity is formed. There are no masculine norms which could exist while simultaneously making men unacceptable to women. Men don't get to decide what women want and expect of them and since all evidence points towards selection pressure flowing from women, who select, to men who risk being weeded out of mating, marriage, reproduction, etc., there's no honesty in this pointless discussion until we're willing to look at women's contribution to it.
397
Really? All my life, I look for men who can express emotions, feel and create intimacy, and be respectful of me. And is intelligent and curious to boot. Not infrequently, I find them, too. That's what I want and expect of a man -- certainly not "manliness."
26
As a gay woman, all I do is look on in despair and anger with men's sexist behavior and suffer the consequences. A lot of the macho sexist behavior from men is also enshrined in the holy books around the world, which give men primacy over their dominion, including women. In conclusion, I don't agree with your argument.
25
Exactly.
I was a kind, sensitive boy, but saw early on that the girls in my peer group only wanted to date jocks.
It was my thoughtful, open-minded mother who helped me understand that a man can be a jock AND sensitive AND nerdy, all at the same time.
As a result, although my relationships with women have not been perfect (are there any perfect relationships?), they have been generally healthy and rewarding.
Needless perhaps to say, my mother is one of my heroes.
I was a kind, sensitive boy, but saw early on that the girls in my peer group only wanted to date jocks.
It was my thoughtful, open-minded mother who helped me understand that a man can be a jock AND sensitive AND nerdy, all at the same time.
As a result, although my relationships with women have not been perfect (are there any perfect relationships?), they have been generally healthy and rewarding.
Needless perhaps to say, my mother is one of my heroes.
229
I want to thank you for writing this article. I feel it articulates so many aspects of the underbelly of patriarchy as it slowly crumbles in our culture. Folks like Robert Bly and The Mankind Project have been whispering these truths for years but with little take in mainstream culture. With the rise of women's empowerment, minorities becoming more the majority, LGBT rights, and the challenging of the dominator hierarchies that have run rampant in our culture, perhaps we are finally ready to start to see more of the authentic man which does not need to hide his feeling nature to be real for his family, community, and nation. As the strongholds of providing, working, achieving, and fighting are no longer relegated to men's affairs only, men are freed up to face the shadow of their emotional landscape which has been projected onto so many others. Fortunately, this is a homecoming, and one that has many treasures to be celebrated, along with peace. As the anger subsides to reveal anxieties and hurt, the gifts of being human can connect to create a more just, beautiful, true, and wholesome world that thrives together with the Earth rather than needing to deny who and what we are together while subjugating and dominating the Earth, our home. We still have a long road ahead to bear our Heart in the World with one another.