Cuba is not Vietnam. Ho Chi Minn hasn't been in power for 60 years. The Vietnam jails are not overflowing with political prisoners. The Vietnamese have followed the Chinese model by allowing capitalism into the economic sphere; and economic opportunity to its's people. The Vietnamese changed the laws so it made economic sense for outside investors to commit capital; and unlike the Cubans; they have not fomented revolutions around the globe. This is just another opportunity for Obama to try to build upon a legacy that exists only in his own mind.
1
Obama's approach to ending the Cuba conflict is certainly more elegant than my own idea, which was to ask Congress to declare war, get that declaration, then send the Secretary of State to offer surrender and ask for terms. Never the no how, Mr. Cohen, are you afflicted with a need for fetid slums somewhere to validate your cultural hubris? If so, you'll soon enough have them in many American locales.
In all the articles I've read these past weeks about America/Cuba, there has been no coverage of the oppression of Cubans during the Battista era, supported by the American government, and by the American stranglehold on the Cuban economy. That we should punish them for decades with a heartless embargo because they dared to liberate themselves from the boot that was holding them in poverty is a national disgrace. This should be front and center in any discussion about the current thaw. There are reasons why they distrust us!
1
I vaguely recall some kind of invasion attempt involving Cubans --- maybe it was them attacking Florida? it appareently involved an attempt to receiver the lost casinos and brothels stolen from the Mafia. also something about dozens of failed assassination attempts against the head of state and plots to disrupt the economy. oh, and some kind of economic embargo for 6 decades. it would seem somebody owes somebody at least an apology.
Are malls really the price of progress, is real estate development the only meaningful measure of jobs and economic growth, is tasteless uniformity always or the only replacement for crumbling authenticity? Must tourism become mass tourism the moment the doors are flung open? The answer isn't blowing in the wind, we are, and it will work if we bring to the bargain more than greed.
1
"It was a generator of misery and paralysis on an epic scale — lives wasted, hopes quashed, youths reduced to idleness and inertia."?!
Not the least of causes was the total opposition and embargo by the U.S. Not to mention trying to assassinate Castro and failed invasions.
Not the least of causes was the total opposition and embargo by the U.S. Not to mention trying to assassinate Castro and failed invasions.
Many are more knowledgable than I about this, but why won't a large number of Cubans take advantage of new 'openness' and just leave the country?
Roger , what about reparations for the families of the 3,000 to 5,000 Batista supporters machined gunned to death as prisoners of war by Che outside of Havana ?
1
This is off-message for Comrade Barry! No doubt it will all be just fine; dredging up the unpleasantness of history is allowed solely for condemnation of (White only, of course) colonialism, slavery and CIA machinations.
Rust occurs without planned change...styrofoam and plastic occur with planning...
1
When I ask Cuban friends about what might happen, not one has ventured a confident prediction. Most Cubans are immensely proud of their country, but know that it's not working economically. As a Cuban film-maker said, you can only appeal to altruism for so long. After more than 50 years, it isn't going to magically. get better. In post-communist countries, the nomenclatura, in this case the army, is always the best positioned to grab the wealth. But at least, Cuba isn't a narco-state. The people are wonderful, but there has been such a systematic suppression of the idea of a civil society -- Raoul utters the term with contempt -- that it is going to be hard to establish a balance between the old -- with its real achievements -- and the new order of neo-capitalism. Personally I am going to go back before it is completely over-run by gringoes.
6
Let Cuba be Cuba. We don't need it here or there.
Mr. Cohen, Cuba is still caught in the 1950s, and with little hope of escaping any time soon. With the demise of extra cheap Venezuelan oil and Obama watching baseball in Habana, it now is quite difficult to blame everything bad on the Yanqui Imperialists. Raul sure has trouble fathoming change!
Vietnam, on the other hand, seems ready to embrace all things Western. In fact, it wishes to make consumer goods available to its people in order to celebrate the victory over France, the U. S. and the South's puppets.
But, so far, the Cuban people still have nothing to celebrate.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
Vietnam, on the other hand, seems ready to embrace all things Western. In fact, it wishes to make consumer goods available to its people in order to celebrate the victory over France, the U. S. and the South's puppets.
But, so far, the Cuban people still have nothing to celebrate.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
Part One
From: President Barack Obama
Posted: Mon 03/21/2016 01:11 pm
For: Mr Raymond Ghiutz Murdock
¡Hola desde Cuba! Michelle, the girls, and I are here in Havana on our first full day in Cuba. Cubans have lined the streets to welcome us, and it’s humbling to be the first U.S. president in nearly 90 years to visit a country and a people just 90 miles from our shores.
Like so many Americans, I've only known the isolation that has existed between our two governments. I was born in 1961, the year of the Bay of Pigs invasion. A year later, a Cold War confrontation over Cuba pushed the world as close as it’s ever been to nuclear war. As the decades passed, the mistrust between our governments resulted in heartache for our two peoples, including Cuban Americans, many of whom have endured decades of separation from their homeland and relatives.
I’ve come to Havana to extend the hand of friendship to the Cuban people. I'm here to bury the last vestige of the Cold War in the Americas and to forge a new era of understanding to help improve the daily lives of the Cuban people.
From: President Barack Obama
Posted: Mon 03/21/2016 01:11 pm
For: Mr Raymond Ghiutz Murdock
¡Hola desde Cuba! Michelle, the girls, and I are here in Havana on our first full day in Cuba. Cubans have lined the streets to welcome us, and it’s humbling to be the first U.S. president in nearly 90 years to visit a country and a people just 90 miles from our shores.
Like so many Americans, I've only known the isolation that has existed between our two governments. I was born in 1961, the year of the Bay of Pigs invasion. A year later, a Cold War confrontation over Cuba pushed the world as close as it’s ever been to nuclear war. As the decades passed, the mistrust between our governments resulted in heartache for our two peoples, including Cuban Americans, many of whom have endured decades of separation from their homeland and relatives.
I’ve come to Havana to extend the hand of friendship to the Cuban people. I'm here to bury the last vestige of the Cold War in the Americas and to forge a new era of understanding to help improve the daily lives of the Cuban people.
1
Cuba may have lost a lot of years due to our embargo. But if Ho Chi Minh City can, Cuba will win hands down with it's serious potential and it's affinity and proximity to us.
1
Not a peep from the successors of the American political leadership that insisted, with both Cuba and Vietnam, that any kind of accommodation fifty years ago would be anathema, that the dominoes would fall and spell the end of capitalism and democratic government.
We now have accommodation and as Roger Cohen ably writes, it's a mixed blessing. Vastly better for the Vietnamese without Agen Orange and napalm. Vastly better for the Cubans without a comprehensive Yanqui embargo.
What say you, Henry Kissinger, William Colby, McGeorge Bundy and William Westmoreland?
We now have accommodation and as Roger Cohen ably writes, it's a mixed blessing. Vastly better for the Vietnamese without Agen Orange and napalm. Vastly better for the Cubans without a comprehensive Yanqui embargo.
What say you, Henry Kissinger, William Colby, McGeorge Bundy and William Westmoreland?
2
We toured Viet Nam, Cambodia and Thailand a few years ago. The only place that was not especially interesting was Ho Chi Minh City. The Viet Cong tunnels nearby were worth a trip but otherwise, a noisy, motorcycle crowd with little charm
Excellent column. It is sad that our system both enables and destroys, that we must accompany our freedoms with the relentless banality of stuff, The golden arches perched atop Pepsi and Coca cola, strip malls, late lunacy and an Apple phone. And soon no doubt a Trump golf course, A Trump hotel- resurrected with golden T's above the past. A picture of Che next to a giant golden Trump. Just imagine.
2
I can't help but wonder what Tito Gerassi would have had to say about Cohen's column, as well as the new rapprochement with Cuba.
Meanwhile, there are many commenters slamming the President for slightly thawing our relationship with Cuba, commenters who, likely as not, are writing their comments on gadgets made in an equally, and arguably more, repressive China.
I will take more seriously those who believe we should maintain our boycott of Cuba when they boycott products, including their phones and computers, made in China. I will take more seriously those who believe we should maintain our boycott of Cuba when they are equally publicly distressed by and boycott Facebook, whose C.E.O., Mark Zuckerberg, feels free to go jogging through the massacre site of Tiananmin Square with the press in tow and government approval.
Meanwhile, there are many commenters slamming the President for slightly thawing our relationship with Cuba, commenters who, likely as not, are writing their comments on gadgets made in an equally, and arguably more, repressive China.
I will take more seriously those who believe we should maintain our boycott of Cuba when they boycott products, including their phones and computers, made in China. I will take more seriously those who believe we should maintain our boycott of Cuba when they are equally publicly distressed by and boycott Facebook, whose C.E.O., Mark Zuckerberg, feels free to go jogging through the massacre site of Tiananmin Square with the press in tow and government approval.
1
The energy that Cubans have to expend on coping - and they're really good at it - will absolutely be put to better use building a modern economy, and Cohen is right that the speed of it will be breathtaking. He's also spot on that something innately Cuban in the culture, which their system and isolation helped to cultivate, is going to be altered if not replaced. It's not just old buildings and cars. It's a kind of grace that must have developed over decades of being doubly put-upon, first by Communism and by anti-Communism on top of that. It's possible Cubans themselves will be happy to trade their abiding outlook for the rewards of enterpreneurship and economic aspiration, but I hope enough of that Cuban character survives to temper the mad rush that's coming.
Mr. Cohen fails to identify the underlying motivators for opening Cuba up to this illusory thing called "free Trade".....and it is crucial that the USA-Canada-Mexico bring Cuba into NAFTA.
....
If we do not....picture in your mind's eye....the Chinese Navy docking in Havana Harbor.......
And there's your real underlying motivator.
....
If we do not....picture in your mind's eye....the Chinese Navy docking in Havana Harbor.......
And there's your real underlying motivator.
CUBA Had been a place where lots of people went to romp and frolic before the Revolution, which heralded the world seeing the dark face of the place for 60 years. While it has achieved very high levels of literacy and a reputation for strong medical training, it's been a repressive regime since 1953. But it's not going to be US Capitalism invading a virgin territory. Cuba's dark side was visible with all the pre Castro partying. So the change in Cuba will be to rebuild. If we are wise, we can encourage Cuba to gear up for eco-tourism, that will have the benefit of maintaining nationalized nature reserves, as in Costa Rica. With support, financing and technical aid, we can encourage Cuba to leapfrog carbon-based fuels and emerge as a leader of carbon neutral living in the Caribbean. We have only to look at the abandoned casinos in the US to see what will happen if Cuba wants to become like a Disneyland with gambling. I don't know that the leaders have their arms so wide as to embrace such such a cultural nosedive. Solitary and quiet it won't be. Still I'm anxious to see how change will evolve. Obama's partway through his last year of his second term as President, so he's going to be witness to beginning steps. I hope that he keeps up firm pressure on Cuba to improve its human rights record, while encouraging the same at home, especially with stopping militarized police and the shooting of unarmed people of color by white police, along with inhumane prisons.
2
Cuba is not Vietnam. I too was in Cuba some 8 years ago at a conference on poverty in Latin America. Several observations stick in my mind. All the better paying jobs in hotels etc. were occupied by white people. I too walked on the Malecon where my companions and I struck a conversation with 3 young men. There openness was impressive. In short order, they were sharing swigs of their rum and we our American Cigarettes. When queried about Fidel, as he is known. Their take was that a third of Cubans are true believers in the revolution or at least its ideals. Another third see Fidel as the problem and would step over this body. It is the final third that is most interesting. These people see that the system imposed by Fidel has held back development and opportunity. But if you were to attempt to assassinate him 2/3s would step in front of the bullet.
The Cuban people are poor but not down trodden everywhere I walked in La Havana at night I heard laughter and music. People danced in the streets music from their houses or from the clubs. A Dominican observer describe Cuba this way Communismo Cumbanche. Communism with a Cuban beat. I think the opening will cause an irresistible wave of change. The communists old guard can either lead, follow or get out of the way and dance.
The Cuban people are poor but not down trodden everywhere I walked in La Havana at night I heard laughter and music. People danced in the streets music from their houses or from the clubs. A Dominican observer describe Cuba this way Communismo Cumbanche. Communism with a Cuban beat. I think the opening will cause an irresistible wave of change. The communists old guard can either lead, follow or get out of the way and dance.
1
Very much looking forward to the time when the world, not just the USA, starts freezing all of the Castros' bank accounts and redistributs their money to the people of Cuba. The Castros shouldn't be upset about handing over their stolen money to the people - after all they are "good communists" aren't they? It will happen it just always takes longer than we wish. Obama's trip to Cuba was just the beginning of the end!
1
When I visited Berlin as a young man in 1985, I traded a pair of my worn Levi's for a Russian officer's fur cap and coat. I knew then the Cold War was over, and the decadent West had won.
Do not underestimate the corrosive value of consumerism, even on a Worker's Paradise. It is our curse, and greatest ally.
Do not underestimate the corrosive value of consumerism, even on a Worker's Paradise. It is our curse, and greatest ally.
6
I have been to Viet Nam in the past two years and just returned from Cuba. Viet Nam is on the move, especially in Hanoi. Lots of American "stuff" ATM's, Upscale Hotels and a pretty welcoming population. The city does continue to boast of it's revolution but it's contained.
Cuba is pretty open now but Havana is in ruins. The Cuban people are fantastic, they suffer but hope that the future will be coming soon for them. I personally hope so. If you think that the American way of life is shallow, just think of the alternative.
Cuba is pretty open now but Havana is in ruins. The Cuban people are fantastic, they suffer but hope that the future will be coming soon for them. I personally hope so. If you think that the American way of life is shallow, just think of the alternative.
5
When Cuba, after Castro, was closed to the dubious crowd that dominated Havana, the then governor of Puerto Rico, Muñoz Marín, was worried that gamblers and gangsters and other unsavory people would shift to Puerto Rico, and tried he put in some measures to prevent it to keep the island as devoid of their presence as possible. Raúl Castro may have more power to do so than Muñoz Marín did.
2
As I read this article I mused on the opportunities lost because of the resistance of a political party in the United States to get into the current Century and let the future arrive. Now we see the same bunch trying to hold back progress in our own country by denying our legally elected President to fill vacancies in his official offices. Why are the American people held hostage by these hooligans? It is time for the Republicans to quit acting like it is still 1864 and let the people have their rightful government. Barnacles is what they are.
6
All this waxing poetic about old Cuba needs to be tempered by the masses of poor people who will watch the Castro brothers fade obscurity in their mansions by the sea built on the backs of "the people". There is a place for them in demagogue hell with the rest of the "from the top down" economists. Economic freedom will slowly morph into political freedom and control by the oligarchs just like the U.S..
1
Yes, certainly capitalism, the economic system, can generate great wealth, but along with capitalism must come the freedoms we take for granted in this country ---speech, religion, etc. Without that freedom of thought, the freedom to experiment, the freedom to be and think differently, then, whatever capitalists market infrastructure you set up will atrophy ---as China is now finding out.
1
This is a beautiful piece of writing. How we all long for beauty to be retained within a more prosperous present.
1
The only people opposed to a reopening of Cuba with the US will be deluded Miami Cubans who will loose their wet-foot dry-foot status. Everybody else, including those who fled Castro (no, not those who fled Batista), will be back with a vengeance, investment bankrolls ready, to reclaim their dominant oppressive place, ready to send the peasants back to the hills where the reinstored rich believe they always belonged.
5
Cuba is in need of an infusion of cash. As soon as the CIA paranoia subsides Castro will allow salvage of the precious metals in sunken ships in Cuban waters. With the available technology Cuba stands to go gold.
1
Beyond the obvious difference in proximity and the fact of a bloody shooting war in Asia, compared with a cold-war in the Caribbean, frozen in time, Viet Nam and Cuba present strikingly different challenges and opportunities for the United States.
China casts itself as the protector of Viet Nam, yet the Vietnamese and the world know that China has never been the protector. China is the conqueror whose aggression against Vietnam began long, long before the Soviet-trained Ho Chi Minh put a Communist spin on the effort.
Cuba is the neighbor, once beset by a corrupt Batista regime partnering with American gangsters. The island was liberated by Fidel and Che, who turned out to be Communists and who turned to the Soviets for protection of their new regime.
Ideology plays little or no role in the friendly attitude of the Vietnamese people, at least in the southern parts, towards the United States. Ideology reigns supreme in Cuba, as long as the Castro brothers live, even though a majority of Cubans probably have never shared that fervor.
Viet Nam will be easier for Americans to pry loose from their rulers, because we can use economic coercion on the rulers. In Cuba, however, we need to hope that a better life for the average Cuban will encourage them to force the old men from the stage. It could get ugly.
China casts itself as the protector of Viet Nam, yet the Vietnamese and the world know that China has never been the protector. China is the conqueror whose aggression against Vietnam began long, long before the Soviet-trained Ho Chi Minh put a Communist spin on the effort.
Cuba is the neighbor, once beset by a corrupt Batista regime partnering with American gangsters. The island was liberated by Fidel and Che, who turned out to be Communists and who turned to the Soviets for protection of their new regime.
Ideology plays little or no role in the friendly attitude of the Vietnamese people, at least in the southern parts, towards the United States. Ideology reigns supreme in Cuba, as long as the Castro brothers live, even though a majority of Cubans probably have never shared that fervor.
Viet Nam will be easier for Americans to pry loose from their rulers, because we can use economic coercion on the rulers. In Cuba, however, we need to hope that a better life for the average Cuban will encourage them to force the old men from the stage. It could get ugly.
The moment any NY Times columnist criticizes a left wing dictatorship, posters can't wait to claim that we are just as bad. The same was true in the days of the old Soviet Union, just as it is for Putin's Russia, and it seems to me to be arrant nonsense. But let's say its all true, i.e. that America is so awful that Cuba looks good, or at least no worse, in comparison. Why, even so, does that give Cuba "an escape from criticism by American journalists" pass? Are we supposed to think that Mr. Cohen has no right to be taken seriously because of the misdeeds of American governments?
3
Back to the future? Back to 1958? Back to Fulgencio Batista and his abuses? Back to US commercial plunder and gangsterism – resurrected Hemingway lollygagging at La Floridita bar? 57 years of sacrifice down the drain? 57 years of unmitigated of impediment and abuse forgotten?
Cuba is not Vietnam, Mr. Cohen. Have you been there since your visit 8 years ago. Canadians, Dutch, Spanish, Germans, Brits, Eastern Europeans, Asians and Latin Americans of all stripes have all been there since. Havana is not being "bulldozed". It has been being being restored to it's former glory while the USA stubbornly hindered, resisted and delayed– a marvel, no thanks to the USA. The US suddenly wakes up and immediately lays claim to those changes – arrivistes, carpetbaggers.
The US can lay no claim to the real progress that has been going on in Cuba since Raúl Castro took over in 2006.
No, Cuba is not a panacea but then, look at the USA today – the mayhem, the killings, the bile, the broken electoral process, the bigotry, the endless wars.
Next time you go to Cuba, make a stop in Puerto Rico and see the disaster US capitalism has wrought there – a dysfunctional, paralytic leech that cannot sneeze without begging permission from the US Congress after 118 years of infancy and 64 years as the Commonwealth of Stupor Rico.
I am Puerto Rican by birth. Puerto Rico is the example Cuba should beware. I sincerely hope they've learned and heed. I wish my Cuban brethren better.
Cuba is not Vietnam, Mr. Cohen. Have you been there since your visit 8 years ago. Canadians, Dutch, Spanish, Germans, Brits, Eastern Europeans, Asians and Latin Americans of all stripes have all been there since. Havana is not being "bulldozed". It has been being being restored to it's former glory while the USA stubbornly hindered, resisted and delayed– a marvel, no thanks to the USA. The US suddenly wakes up and immediately lays claim to those changes – arrivistes, carpetbaggers.
The US can lay no claim to the real progress that has been going on in Cuba since Raúl Castro took over in 2006.
No, Cuba is not a panacea but then, look at the USA today – the mayhem, the killings, the bile, the broken electoral process, the bigotry, the endless wars.
Next time you go to Cuba, make a stop in Puerto Rico and see the disaster US capitalism has wrought there – a dysfunctional, paralytic leech that cannot sneeze without begging permission from the US Congress after 118 years of infancy and 64 years as the Commonwealth of Stupor Rico.
I am Puerto Rican by birth. Puerto Rico is the example Cuba should beware. I sincerely hope they've learned and heed. I wish my Cuban brethren better.
8
Did I miss the part about how the most powerful nation on earth maintained its boot on the throat of a little island nation for over 50 years.
Sent from iPad
Sent from iPad
14
The boot was the Castro brothers. The U.S. was not obligated to trade with revolutionary demagogues. Let the Castro brothers retire to their mansions built on the backs of "the people" and fade into the dustbin of history.
1
@paul
You see here is a perfect example of the trouble with ideology, it's blinding. Even if I were to accept what you stated to be true( I don't ) you still missed the obvious, like whatvabout the people or leaders in this country who built their mansions on the backs of other people.
All mansions are built on the backs of other people. It's almost definitional and pretty close to being a tautology.
You see here is a perfect example of the trouble with ideology, it's blinding. Even if I were to accept what you stated to be true( I don't ) you still missed the obvious, like whatvabout the people or leaders in this country who built their mansions on the backs of other people.
All mansions are built on the backs of other people. It's almost definitional and pretty close to being a tautology.
1
comment/question: jihad brings more hate and bloodshed to a Western ally: will BHO enjoy a game of baseball today in Havana while European doctors remove shrapnel from the wounded? He once said he was sorry for doing a round of golf following the beheading of a fellow citizen. Let's see if he meant it.
1
Castro brothers will be much harder to convince then Vietnam Roger Cohen...!
Only their demise will bring real change to Cuba. Maybe we should put the 5 families back in power lol
Only their demise will bring real change to Cuba. Maybe we should put the 5 families back in power lol
3
I am 100% behind lifting the embargo... it accomplished nada and caused a lot of suffering by the Cuban people. Of equal import, opening trade between the countries will seriously undermine the Castro regime and its raison d'etre. I am uncomfortable with the image of our President once again kowtowing before another tyrant for the sake of establishing a crypto-legacy that only academic leftists might appreciate... but he's already a lame duck and his staged performances in front of the likes of images of Che Guevara will quickly fade from our memories.
2
In the case of Cuba's government think "North Korea Lite".
I am told you can hear the waves on Cubsn beaches, no jet skies. Not for long. Soon Cuban waters will have the iridescent sheen of gas floating on ocean waters. Can you smell the petroleum?
4
Only in this case, the economy is controlled by the military. The corruption will be breathtaking, and many more Cubans will flee to our shores.
2
There are things that need to be done that the Cuban revolution has not done.
However, there are valuable things that it has done, that must not be lost. This mentions education and medical care.
It might have mentioned the desperate poverty, starvation, and paramilitary killings of the Batista years which was ended by the revolution and must not come back. It might have mentioned the political dominance of American organized crime under Batista, which must not come back. Not all American influence in Cuba was for the good.
It is not automatic that Cuba's leaders will make the same decisions as Vietnam's leaders made. Their situations are very different. Cuba is not destroyed by decades of war, and it is no longer standing off a China-like neighbor with designs on actual invasion. Cuba has some infrastructure.
Most of all, Cuba's leaders can look at the example of Vietnam, to see what worked well and what did not. They can look at China too, and even at what Putin did after what Yeltsin did in Russia. There are many lessons they have to start with, that others learned the hard way.
Most of all, the Cuban government is determined to keep the American development machine at arm's length, in ways others did not. That may change, or it may not, but right now that is a major factor.
There is much hope for Cuba. It is partly hope of resisting the siren song of some American ideas and money, just as it is partly adoption of other American ideas.
However, there are valuable things that it has done, that must not be lost. This mentions education and medical care.
It might have mentioned the desperate poverty, starvation, and paramilitary killings of the Batista years which was ended by the revolution and must not come back. It might have mentioned the political dominance of American organized crime under Batista, which must not come back. Not all American influence in Cuba was for the good.
It is not automatic that Cuba's leaders will make the same decisions as Vietnam's leaders made. Their situations are very different. Cuba is not destroyed by decades of war, and it is no longer standing off a China-like neighbor with designs on actual invasion. Cuba has some infrastructure.
Most of all, Cuba's leaders can look at the example of Vietnam, to see what worked well and what did not. They can look at China too, and even at what Putin did after what Yeltsin did in Russia. There are many lessons they have to start with, that others learned the hard way.
Most of all, the Cuban government is determined to keep the American development machine at arm's length, in ways others did not. That may change, or it may not, but right now that is a major factor.
There is much hope for Cuba. It is partly hope of resisting the siren song of some American ideas and money, just as it is partly adoption of other American ideas.
14
Another difference between Viet Nam and Cuba is that Ho Chi Minh conveniently died. Watch Cuba really take off after Fidel and Raul go to meet their maker!
When I read all the articles and comments on Cuba the last few days I can't help but think "Here we go again". Why do we think that it is our job to figure out what is best for another country and its people? Let's just stop messing with Cuba, lift the embargo and let people and business interact. If I were President of Cuba and followed the US presidential race and the gun violence, and health care uproar etc for the last seven years I would be giving Obama and the congress a lesson on how to run a country.
6
It wouldn't be a blind chase for the American dream rather it's own road to prosperity without sacrificing the gains of the revolution that Cuba is likely to follow following the restoration of its ties with the US.
4
So close, so far. So inspired, so filled with dread. So dependent--yet so giving. Always the object of angst, always the source of denouncement that said the embargo of Cuba meant standing up for liberty. Some inside and outside the country still fail to see the contradiction and its deterioration: the fierce policy has sunk to the level of a grudge, a muscle memory that froze time and people like a National Geographic special. From where did the idea come that force could compel freedom, challenge governments, and change societies for the better?
To speak of Cuba is really to speak of the Cuban people. They are the stuff of National Geographic; their life comes shining through their images. Their quiet joy that embraces time and each other. Finally and soon, we can go see it for ourselves. Those who once loved Cuba are stalkers for a lost cause. Time changes things when nothing else will. And in Cuba, it's time for a change. A new revolution that rides in quietly on the tides of history, a mighty wave. The embargo only blocks and delays what time and the people demand.
For an American President to visit Cuba is an inspiration to the Cuban people. Respect, care, and equality are values that surround his visit; they provide comfort not to the enemy but to our long separated friends.
A hilarious video of the kind President Obama is well known for, made with a Cuban comedian and television star, can be seen here: [http://bit.ly/25i2xHi].
To speak of Cuba is really to speak of the Cuban people. They are the stuff of National Geographic; their life comes shining through their images. Their quiet joy that embraces time and each other. Finally and soon, we can go see it for ourselves. Those who once loved Cuba are stalkers for a lost cause. Time changes things when nothing else will. And in Cuba, it's time for a change. A new revolution that rides in quietly on the tides of history, a mighty wave. The embargo only blocks and delays what time and the people demand.
For an American President to visit Cuba is an inspiration to the Cuban people. Respect, care, and equality are values that surround his visit; they provide comfort not to the enemy but to our long separated friends.
A hilarious video of the kind President Obama is well known for, made with a Cuban comedian and television star, can be seen here: [http://bit.ly/25i2xHi].
3
Re: Ho Chi Minh City - Remind me again what 58,000 Americans died for.
5
good article,i absolutely enjoyed it.thanks.talk,no bullets.jfk was wrong and obama is right.
4
Maybe not so simple on jfk. A man named Atteood was undertaking a secret mission to open negotiations just as the President was assassinated. See Rachel Madow last night.
Just for the record.
Before Castro took over, Batista the dictator, ran the nation with an iron and corrupting fist that suppressed the people and rewarded his criminal associates with financiasl gains streaming from organized crime boss Meyer Lansky's control of gambling, drugs and prostitition.
The truth which is conveniently forgotten in favor of anti Communist rhetoric should be remembered; that Fidel was born into a landowner's family, raised in wealth and not a Communist until jailed after trying to overthrough Batista's criminal enterprise. An enterprise which was tacitly approved by our government
My father who as a correspondent visited Cuba and interviewed Fidel quoted Castro as saying "A woman who is being raped and calls for help doesn't ask if the person coming to her aid is a card carrying communist"
Before Castro took over, Batista the dictator, ran the nation with an iron and corrupting fist that suppressed the people and rewarded his criminal associates with financiasl gains streaming from organized crime boss Meyer Lansky's control of gambling, drugs and prostitition.
The truth which is conveniently forgotten in favor of anti Communist rhetoric should be remembered; that Fidel was born into a landowner's family, raised in wealth and not a Communist until jailed after trying to overthrough Batista's criminal enterprise. An enterprise which was tacitly approved by our government
My father who as a correspondent visited Cuba and interviewed Fidel quoted Castro as saying "A woman who is being raped and calls for help doesn't ask if the person coming to her aid is a card carrying communist"
10
“Goose-stepping Cuban soldiers in green pants and white belted shirts carried the wreaths and crisply saluted the American president and the Cuban party leader.
Several members of Mr. Obama’s cabinet and senior national security officials were there to witness the ceremony, including Secretary of State John Kerry, Secretary of Commerce Penny Pritzker and Susan E. Rice, the national security adviser.”
--- NY Times, yesterday.
This is the only mention of it I have seen in the Times, but the Cuban soldiers’ goose-stepping in front of President Obama was truly appalling, and somethingthat his aides should never have permitted to occur. Watching the spectacle on TV, I felt embarrassed for the President. The incident reminded me of the shortcomings in the Iran deal that were also permitted to occur.
Several members of Mr. Obama’s cabinet and senior national security officials were there to witness the ceremony, including Secretary of State John Kerry, Secretary of Commerce Penny Pritzker and Susan E. Rice, the national security adviser.”
--- NY Times, yesterday.
This is the only mention of it I have seen in the Times, but the Cuban soldiers’ goose-stepping in front of President Obama was truly appalling, and somethingthat his aides should never have permitted to occur. Watching the spectacle on TV, I felt embarrassed for the President. The incident reminded me of the shortcomings in the Iran deal that were also permitted to occur.
1
Since when is goose stepping some sort of insult to our national sovereignty? Many countries teach their soldiers to goose step.
2
Slippery journalism. Cuba is not Vietnam. Dealing with Castro's Cuba is
difficult because of its history of human rights abuses. President Obama,
the "JV" President, has not addressed this problem, nor explained
to the American people his goals. Roger Cohen is not in a place where
news is being made.
difficult because of its history of human rights abuses. President Obama,
the "JV" President, has not addressed this problem, nor explained
to the American people his goals. Roger Cohen is not in a place where
news is being made.
Well, it may be controlled state capitalism in Cuba or capitalism run amok with politicians like Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz running for president in Cuba someday soon. They are the type of politicians that will flourish there too, particularly after having run in modern America....
2
I fear the turn to the global mall homogenized "aesthetic" too and the rapid disappearance of Havana's idiosyncratic urban beauty, even in ruins. The funny thing is that it need not be. European cities and Middle East cities have retained their historical "feel" even as they add new layers of history to their cities and rural landscapes. Some even profit from their museum city look or benefit from the way moderns inhabit old spaces in modern ways. Not everything needs to be demolished to build new "modern" structures. IT is somehow the isolated "wannabes" that think the aesthetic of mass capitalism, of malls and hotels and new cars and resorts is "cool." To covet Miami, ugly vulgar Miami full of sprawl and malls and horrible traffic, instead of cities like Havana with its mix of old and new, its human scale, its layers of history there to be seen, its amazing. But it is also true that for many it is a question of "abundance" and "excess" versus scarcity and excessive austerity. Could it change with conservation in mind?
7
Well, we are all collectively sorry that progress and improved standards of living will destroy your quaint, romanticized view of battered, dilapidated Havana Vieja. It's one thing to visit and marvel at it's "idiosyncratic ruins," but it's another thing to live in such a ruin, which often times lacks electricity or working plumbing. It's no wonder that the rest of the world detests America's penchant for first world kvetching.
2
I think what Mr. Cohen sees in his crystal ball is entirely accurate. But, oh My God, is there some way -- some wisdom -- that will insure malls do not encroach on Havana Vieja?
I was there in February. Yes, the poverty and repression are awful, but as Mr. Cohen says, the atmosphere -- the feel -- is unlike any other. There are smart people in Cuba -- and the U.S. -- who understand this, right? RIGHT? An extraordinary effort must be made by both sides to make sure change is measured and considered. Getting it right may well require judgment on par with that of Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Benjamin Franklin when they drafted the Declaration of Independence.
I was there in February. Yes, the poverty and repression are awful, but as Mr. Cohen says, the atmosphere -- the feel -- is unlike any other. There are smart people in Cuba -- and the U.S. -- who understand this, right? RIGHT? An extraordinary effort must be made by both sides to make sure change is measured and considered. Getting it right may well require judgment on par with that of Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Benjamin Franklin when they drafted the Declaration of Independence.
6
i don't think that Raul Castro and his Council have the same judgement as our founding statesmen. The old Cuba will be gone, replaced by Marriott? Probably somewhat good, if the populace benefits from the investment(s)...boom town Havana is right around the corner in 10 years.
Yes it will be boom town, however it can be done by renovating, not demolishing.
4
All one needs to do is step outside of Havana, and one will find malls alive and well. The main pedestrian mall in Cienfuegos is a surprisingly clean, modern shopping strip that would not look out of place in Miami.
I can't help but wonder what Tito Gerassi would have had to say about Cohen's column, as well as the new rapprochement with Cuba.
Meanwhile, there are many commenters slamming the President for slightly thawing our relationship with Cuba, commenters who, likely as not, are writing their comments on gadgets made in an equally, and arguably more, repressive China.
I will take more seriously those who believe we should maintain our boycott of Cuba when they boycott products, including their phones and computers, made in China. I will take more seriously those who believe we should maintain our boycott of Cuba when they are equally publicly distressed by and boycott Facebook, whose C.E.O., Mark Zuckerberg, feels free to go jogging through the massacre site of Tiananmin Square with the press in tow and government approval.
Meanwhile, there are many commenters slamming the President for slightly thawing our relationship with Cuba, commenters who, likely as not, are writing their comments on gadgets made in an equally, and arguably more, repressive China.
I will take more seriously those who believe we should maintain our boycott of Cuba when they boycott products, including their phones and computers, made in China. I will take more seriously those who believe we should maintain our boycott of Cuba when they are equally publicly distressed by and boycott Facebook, whose C.E.O., Mark Zuckerberg, feels free to go jogging through the massacre site of Tiananmin Square with the press in tow and government approval.
8
Yet another Times columnist continues the seven-year Times tradition of finding something wrong with any and every Obama accomplishment. Listen to yourselves sometime. You will miss Obama -- as Trump says: believe me!
6
I read your first paragraph and had to catch my breath. I see what you are doing. Starve the reader's brain of oxygen so that he, or she, is jolted out of their state of unquestioning complaisance. So, capitalism isn't all good? And communism not all bad? But that's heresy!
1
Scene: At a bar in downtown Washington, DC. The conversation of 4 guys went like this;
Burmese guy said to the Cuban next to him "I thought I am their favorite".
The Cuban guy reply back with a smile "Not any more".
Vietnamese guy said to the vietnamese "Welcome to the joy luck club".
The North Korean guy then said to the Cuban "Amigo, enjoy it while it last-i just got a call".
Burmese guy said to the Cuban next to him "I thought I am their favorite".
The Cuban guy reply back with a smile "Not any more".
Vietnamese guy said to the vietnamese "Welcome to the joy luck club".
The North Korean guy then said to the Cuban "Amigo, enjoy it while it last-i just got a call".
I can't help but wonder what Tito Gerassi would have had to say about Cohen's column, as well as the outlines of the new rapprochement with Cuba.
1
Those of us old enough to remember the last vestiges of "Old Florida" can certainly relate to your column. My wife's Grandfather spoke of rivers where one felt they could walk across them on the backs of swimming fish, the rivers so full of fish and manatee. Of spots so serene and beautiful, that are all lost now. Yes the Cuban people are poor but in so many ways they are so much richer than we...
2
Right after WWII the Vietnamese with Ho Chi Minh leading trusted only one country, the US, because they assumed the US had no interest in colonizing the country. The people of Vietnam most of them not communists but supported Ho Chi Minh as the only granter for an independence. The refused to understand that and were heavily beaten. The Americans blew an excellent opportunity and instead attacked the country to be beaten like the French. The economic development in Vietnam together with the US was therefore postponed due to an unnecessary war.
2
There is no credible socioeconomic political comparison between Vietnam and Cuba. There is an influential Cuba Lobby.
Vietnam has an ancient history with a record of ethnic sectarian nationalism that has regularly humiliated and buried empires and conquerors for millennia. From the Trung sisters and Lady Trieu fighting against Imperial China during the days of the Roman Empire to Vietnam finally gaining independence from China in circa 900 A.D. to resisting three attempted Mongol invasions to the golden age zenith of Vietnamese history in the middle of the last millennium there is a unique narrative.
Until the arrival of the French colonial imperium from 1862 -1945 eliminated Vietnamese independence. After aiding the allies in defeating Japan the Vietnamese expected to be rewarded with independence. Instead they had to first defeat the French and then the Americans on the battlefield. With 90 million people there are nearly 10x as many Vietnamese as there are Cubans. From 1945-1975 Vietnam fought for it's independence.
Cuba was inhabited by Natives until it became part of the Spanish Empire supported by African enslavement until the American victory in war with Spain. Until Castro Cuba was effectively an American colony ruled by American corporations and organized crime. America has been engaged in 50+ years of failed covert and overt regime change war against Cuba that only hurt the Cuban people. Mostly white Cuban exiles are already in Miami and every where in Florida.
Vietnam has an ancient history with a record of ethnic sectarian nationalism that has regularly humiliated and buried empires and conquerors for millennia. From the Trung sisters and Lady Trieu fighting against Imperial China during the days of the Roman Empire to Vietnam finally gaining independence from China in circa 900 A.D. to resisting three attempted Mongol invasions to the golden age zenith of Vietnamese history in the middle of the last millennium there is a unique narrative.
Until the arrival of the French colonial imperium from 1862 -1945 eliminated Vietnamese independence. After aiding the allies in defeating Japan the Vietnamese expected to be rewarded with independence. Instead they had to first defeat the French and then the Americans on the battlefield. With 90 million people there are nearly 10x as many Vietnamese as there are Cubans. From 1945-1975 Vietnam fought for it's independence.
Cuba was inhabited by Natives until it became part of the Spanish Empire supported by African enslavement until the American victory in war with Spain. Until Castro Cuba was effectively an American colony ruled by American corporations and organized crime. America has been engaged in 50+ years of failed covert and overt regime change war against Cuba that only hurt the Cuban people. Mostly white Cuban exiles are already in Miami and every where in Florida.
7
Mr. Cohen, The Commenter Community, and their minutiae, notwithstanding, I liked your memories of the Cuba you visited so many decades ago.
For me, it was 1985's China ---Bicycles everywhere I looked; I fantasized about having the Bicycle-Bell monopoly in Shanghai. Today is another Smog-Carbon-Monoxide-Choking story.
Thanks for the thoughts about what Cuba's future may be. I'm going to watch with a raised eyebrow; maybe they will, and maybe they won't.
For me, it was 1985's China ---Bicycles everywhere I looked; I fantasized about having the Bicycle-Bell monopoly in Shanghai. Today is another Smog-Carbon-Monoxide-Choking story.
Thanks for the thoughts about what Cuba's future may be. I'm going to watch with a raised eyebrow; maybe they will, and maybe they won't.
2
Roger,
Your piece suffers from historical amnesia. Before the Cuban Revolution, Cuba was ruled for more than twenty years by a despot, General Fulgencio Battista, a puppet of the United States, who serviced American tourists with gambling joints, whore houses, liquor, and night clubs. The productive economy was based on a single crop, sugar, the price of which was fixed by the American sugar trust. Education and public health were nil, and the Cuban people suffered from poverty, disease, and shortened lives.
Like the Jews and the memory of the Holocaust, the memory of those times should be a warning to future generations of Cubans to resist rampant capitalism and to keep the United States at arms length.
Your piece suffers from historical amnesia. Before the Cuban Revolution, Cuba was ruled for more than twenty years by a despot, General Fulgencio Battista, a puppet of the United States, who serviced American tourists with gambling joints, whore houses, liquor, and night clubs. The productive economy was based on a single crop, sugar, the price of which was fixed by the American sugar trust. Education and public health were nil, and the Cuban people suffered from poverty, disease, and shortened lives.
Like the Jews and the memory of the Holocaust, the memory of those times should be a warning to future generations of Cubans to resist rampant capitalism and to keep the United States at arms length.
5
The term "Capitalist Communism" says it all: Cuba meets the modern World.
If Cubans are able to keep their sense and understand what Fidel did for them; they should move slowly, deliberately, intentionally and say no to capitalism and continue to search for a market socialism. They should dispute statements that tout the kind of democracy experienced by people in New Orleans, Detroit, Flint, etc. They should dispute statements that highlight human rights abuses in Cuba, when the US imprisons more than the Soviet Union ever did, when our child poverty levels are embarrassing, when millions die each year because they do not have access to quality health care, etc. I hope you are wrong Mr. Cohen.
5
Before Castro took over, Batista a heartless and vicious dictator, ran the nation with an iron and corrupting fist that suppressed the people and rewarded his friends with financiasl gains streaming from organized crime's control of among other illegal enterprises, gambling and prostitition.
It should be remembered that Fidel was not a Communist until he was backed into a corner by our policy toward his struggle for his nation's freedom.
Although I have deep doubts there will ever be a return to such corruption, it may be that Raul will welcome our return with his followers lining up to have their pockets picked.
I have a sense the people will not buy into the false promise of exploitation, but then since the election of our now deceased 40th President we have swallowed that pipe dream, hook, line and sinker.
There is one born every minute and some of them speak English as a second language.
It should be remembered that Fidel was not a Communist until he was backed into a corner by our policy toward his struggle for his nation's freedom.
Although I have deep doubts there will ever be a return to such corruption, it may be that Raul will welcome our return with his followers lining up to have their pockets picked.
I have a sense the people will not buy into the false promise of exploitation, but then since the election of our now deceased 40th President we have swallowed that pipe dream, hook, line and sinker.
There is one born every minute and some of them speak English as a second language.
1
Well .. hopefully it will come with a cautious Capitalism... not diving in to fast ... so the Cubans can at least keep the good Health Care and Education system they have in place ... But this is a great happening. And all it took was a little initiative and some common sense. He's a good man our President, and he is trying to make the world a better place.
5
Curious comparison, Vietnam and Cuba. Forty-seven years after Ho Chi Minh died, Vietnam ranks 125th in the world in GDP per capita, and 55th in the the world in life expectancy. With both Castro brothers still alive, Cuba ranks 57th in GDP and 38th in life expectancy. Turns out that Communist Cuba delivers education, economic opportunity and health care far superior to Commu-capitalist Vietnam.
But they're twins when it comes to democracy, or lack thereof - on the Democracy Index, Vietnam ranks 128th and Cuba ranks 129th.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
But they're twins when it comes to democracy, or lack thereof - on the Democracy Index, Vietnam ranks 128th and Cuba ranks 129th.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
2
Fascinating, Roger Cohen, your piece about Cuba heading for Miami. Havana may be 20 years behind Ho Chi Minh City, but dollars to donuts Cuba will be quick to Americanize that island that lies marvelously quiescent 90 miles south of Miami. And what will the mega-development of Cuba mean to the Cayman Islands - sharing the same northwestern corner of the Caribbean? Three small islands, one of which has been richly overdeveloped - The Big Island, Grand Cayman. The Sister Islands, lying 89 miles to the northeast of Grand Cayman - Little Cayman, 11 square miles and occupied by the very rich who can only land on a grass airstrip. And Cayman Brac, 12 square miles, in an economic downspin for lack of tourism. jobs for the Brackers, who only number 1,500 souls, far too many unemployed on welfare. There are two fine hotels on the Brac and two failed hotels that are going to wrack and ruin for lack of visitors and jobs. The Obama-Castro entente is cause for celebration for American entrepreneurs and Cubans welcoming their megabusinesses. But President Obama is disliked in the Cayman Islands, and the American Conservative Evangelical Republicans are the party of favour to the CI Government and the citizens whose conviction does not separate church from government. As you put it, the"imprisoning sea off Cuba", the same sea that surrounds the Cayman Islands so close by - the last British Royal Crown Colonies, members of the UK Commonwealth of Nations - will be imprisoning no more.
Cuba, should have fair better with a the Chinese style, of Socialism. #MakingAmericaGreatAgain
It's time for people like Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz to move back to Cuba and demand their rights. They could go as dual citizens, with more protections than current protesters for democracy. I am serious. Instead of carping comfortably from abroad, the conservative and highly successful people of Cuban ancestry could force Cuba to become a democracy. It would take a great deal of true bravery.
I have never been to Cuba, but from what I glean from the Internet, I see both the good, and the oppressive. I feel that Cuba has a golden opportunity to embrace the good, ie cultural, agricultural, tourist wonders and sharing with those who would encourage them to keep what is beautiful, low key, and attractive to those who just want to enjoy the quiet and lower level of the glitzy world of flash and ever escalating need to bring in Las Vegas hype. Cuba could so well offer a haven to those looking for safety from Isis, etc., tranquil vacation time and socializing with the Cuban population. All the beauty and a retreat from the 'real world'. Cuba could be the poster child of welcome to those looking for peace, culture, and beauty.
1
A moment of silence, please, for LBJ, Robert McNamara and all the other gurus who fully believed in the "domino theory" and led us through a disastrous war in Southeast Asia...for naught.
8
Of course capitalism is better than communism.
But why is it that we can so easily see the flaws in their system, but try so hard to avoid seeing the flaws in ours?
But why is it that we can so easily see the flaws in their system, but try so hard to avoid seeing the flaws in ours?
4
They are both gods that continue to fail. Capitalism turned loose gives you high, middle and lower class criminality. Communism modified by capitalism has weakened communism and may turn it to socialism. Capitalism needs to be modified by socialism, or it will destroy itself and those who adore it.
4
There will be very little to miss about the Cuba of Castro. Cuba's 'soul' does not need to include the social, political, and economic isolation that allowed nature to remain pristine. A little havoc is the price to pay for finally opening up that country and seeing its people freed from an unspeakably repressive, anachronistic regime. This is a government that has people shot when they simply try to emigrate.
Yes, there will be Starbucks and Fords and neon signs. That sure beats what is there now. Please also remember that Canadians and many others have sustained tourism for decades in Cuba, but that has done little to improve the quality of goods and services.
The US embargo is a travesty, but let's not kid ourselves: if Castro ever really cared about his people, he would have backed down, held elections, accepted the results, and done what he could to open up trade with the US. It's absurd to dig in your heels and watch your people suffer and starve when the world's largest economy is mere miles from your doorstep.
Choosing to ally with the USSR, and still refusing to properly liberalize decades after its fall, while the old Eastern Block nations rapidly become part of the modern world --- Castro has been a spectacularly selfish, corrupt, and destructive leader, spewing outdated rhetoric and riding on his magnetic persona and brutal repression to maintain authoritarian rule.
Europe was poor for centuries too. I'd hardly say that prosperity cost them their soul.
Yes, there will be Starbucks and Fords and neon signs. That sure beats what is there now. Please also remember that Canadians and many others have sustained tourism for decades in Cuba, but that has done little to improve the quality of goods and services.
The US embargo is a travesty, but let's not kid ourselves: if Castro ever really cared about his people, he would have backed down, held elections, accepted the results, and done what he could to open up trade with the US. It's absurd to dig in your heels and watch your people suffer and starve when the world's largest economy is mere miles from your doorstep.
Choosing to ally with the USSR, and still refusing to properly liberalize decades after its fall, while the old Eastern Block nations rapidly become part of the modern world --- Castro has been a spectacularly selfish, corrupt, and destructive leader, spewing outdated rhetoric and riding on his magnetic persona and brutal repression to maintain authoritarian rule.
Europe was poor for centuries too. I'd hardly say that prosperity cost them their soul.
2
Interesting comment.
On the last sentence: European prosperity came from a very different source and under very different circumstances than the turbo-destruction that Roger Cohen so vividly predicts when the floodgates are opened in Cuba like they were in Vietnam. China is yet a different case.
On the last sentence: European prosperity came from a very different source and under very different circumstances than the turbo-destruction that Roger Cohen so vividly predicts when the floodgates are opened in Cuba like they were in Vietnam. China is yet a different case.
As usual we see the conservatives reaction to this detente with Cuba, just as they did with Nixon's detente with China. The conservative mind is not just resistant to change, it also can not see the future. If it were not for progressive minds, we would still be using stone tools.
We have been estranged from Cuba for 57 years now and it has accomplished nothing, except keeping the Cuban people poor. It has done nothing to the Castro and other Cuban elite. The question of why the revolution in Cuba, is ignored.
As we have seen any thing Mr. Obama does to try and bring peace and justice to anywhere is opposed by the GOP and its sycophants. They can not stand the idea that he will get credit for improving the world about us. Their constant mantra is, he has destroyed America's standing in the world, he has used and abused his office to override the Constitution and what ever specious claims they can dream up.
They have engaged in a form of racial assassination on a political basis. That is all it is. It is no different than the propaganda campaign of Joseph Goebbels, riling up the faithful followers of a failing political movement.
Here we have two historic agreements, Iran and Cuba with the possibilities to bring good relations with long declared foes, it an embarrassment to the conservative forces of evil that they have been thwarted in their quest for political domination.
We have been estranged from Cuba for 57 years now and it has accomplished nothing, except keeping the Cuban people poor. It has done nothing to the Castro and other Cuban elite. The question of why the revolution in Cuba, is ignored.
As we have seen any thing Mr. Obama does to try and bring peace and justice to anywhere is opposed by the GOP and its sycophants. They can not stand the idea that he will get credit for improving the world about us. Their constant mantra is, he has destroyed America's standing in the world, he has used and abused his office to override the Constitution and what ever specious claims they can dream up.
They have engaged in a form of racial assassination on a political basis. That is all it is. It is no different than the propaganda campaign of Joseph Goebbels, riling up the faithful followers of a failing political movement.
Here we have two historic agreements, Iran and Cuba with the possibilities to bring good relations with long declared foes, it an embarrassment to the conservative forces of evil that they have been thwarted in their quest for political domination.
16
Money trumps liberty...
[ Was that why we waged war on Vietnam? Was that what it was all about, all the death and destruction?
I am beyond sad. This essay is simply frightening. ]
[ Was that why we waged war on Vietnam? Was that what it was all about, all the death and destruction?
I am beyond sad. This essay is simply frightening. ]
20
Look no further than the Dulles brothers, to see the anti communist manifesto.
Ho Chi Min originally asked the U.S. to help get France out of Viet Nam. We refused because he was a communist, and the Dulles promoted the domino theory, that if Viet Nam became Communist, the rest of southern Asia would do so also.
Ho Chi Min originally asked the U.S. to help get France out of Viet Nam. We refused because he was a communist, and the Dulles promoted the domino theory, that if Viet Nam became Communist, the rest of southern Asia would do so also.
4
Odd that they didn't think to ask "Why will the rest of Southeast Asia go red if Vietnam does? Is what we're offering that repugnant?"
reply to Nancy: "The Cuban revolution had its achievements, not least in education and medicine, but lost its raison d’être long ago. It was a generator of misery and paralysis on an epic scale — lives wasted, hopes quashed, youths reduced to idleness ..."
Makes one wonder if this is a story line about Cuba or late 20th/early 21st Century America- sans the Education & Health Care.
Makes one wonder if this is a story line about Cuba or late 20th/early 21st Century America- sans the Education & Health Care.
2
The similarities between the two one-party states - Cuba and Vietnam - are quite striking, with Communists being still in charge, but giving in to capitalism.
Would Cuba fare better than Vietnam? There is reason to believe it. Its government under the two Castros has survived more than five decades of US sanctions. It had also defied predictions that it would not survive the collapse of its one-time supporter, the Soviet Union. Under Raul Castro Cuba has seen remarkable changes. A quiet economic revolution took place that has inspired a new generation of Cuban entrepreneurs to launch private businesses and write success stories. With help from its diaspora in Miami, Cuba will outdo Vietnam. Thanks to the Communist Party's reform process, which included large-scale privatisation of state companies, Vietnam has undergone a spectacular economic boom. But its leadership worries that too much economic liberalisation will weaken its power base, and it faces a daunting task to narrow the wealth gap between urban and rural areas.
Would Cuba fare better than Vietnam? There is reason to believe it. Its government under the two Castros has survived more than five decades of US sanctions. It had also defied predictions that it would not survive the collapse of its one-time supporter, the Soviet Union. Under Raul Castro Cuba has seen remarkable changes. A quiet economic revolution took place that has inspired a new generation of Cuban entrepreneurs to launch private businesses and write success stories. With help from its diaspora in Miami, Cuba will outdo Vietnam. Thanks to the Communist Party's reform process, which included large-scale privatisation of state companies, Vietnam has undergone a spectacular economic boom. But its leadership worries that too much economic liberalisation will weaken its power base, and it faces a daunting task to narrow the wealth gap between urban and rural areas.
3
The Cuban Embargo epitomizes the continued serial foreign policy ignorance of the Republican Party. It also illustrates the irrational reflex of Cuban Americans whose personal family history precludes any rational evaluation of policy toward Cuba. It also is clear that engagement, not isolation is the way for the U.S. to help the Cuban people.The last 57 years of the Embargo have done nothing to help the Cuban people, but it has given Cuban American politicians a certain leverage over the Republican Party, and insured the failure of any American attempts to help the people of Cuba.
22
Not only does the strange dynamic affect Cuba, but it affects Miami as well. It is as if the whole dynamic is out of balance. We get the Cubans who are more aggressive and rapacious while the more recessive, perhaps communal, Cubans remain at home. You need a mix to have a viable society. Otherwise, you have capitalism on steroids or a crumbling society in its stead.
2
I remember getting set for my very first trip to Cuba in 1993, during the height of the Special Period. I saw an article in the NYT Magazine, by someone I assumed knew what he was talking about. He said that no matter what, the Revolution was doomed to disappear, that it would take at least 6 years for the economy to begin to recover from the loss of the East Bloc, and that the people would never wait that long. Those 6 years came and went, along with another 17. The Cubans heroically endured tremendous hardships at the hands of the US government, a fact completely unknown to most Americans. I returned to the island some 30 times in the interim, and was arrested on my return on one occasion. It has been 23 years of marveling at the fantastic distortions that these capitalist journalists present on life in Cuba, purposefully or not. Predictions of the fall of socialism pop up with every visit of a pope, with the change of leadership, with the change in allied governments. Yet the Revolution remains as a beacon of justice for millions. Cubans, who are used to seeing Italians, Germans Canadians and Cuban Americans, will be distinctly underwhelmed by the typical Yuma (American).
12
None of the modernization that has taken place in Vietnam would have likely occurred if Ho Chi Minh were still alive and running the nation.
Same with the Castro Brothers in Cuba. As with Vietnam, change will have to wait for the original communist revolutionaries to permanently leave the scene.
Same with the Castro Brothers in Cuba. As with Vietnam, change will have to wait for the original communist revolutionaries to permanently leave the scene.
6
The hostility was hardly anachronistic and pointless, or so the political prisoners and the disappeared might assert. We're apparently ready to forget those souls, a fair number who are still behind the Castro Bros. prison bars, often for no more than speaking their minds. So, the president has had some words with President Castro (the brother) on human rights. That and $2.75 will get you a short ride on a NYC subway.
This is an age of cultural relativism, where a despotism that has imposed its will on a people for over 65 years is now considered sufficiently rehabilitated, in the utter absence of any evidence to support the assumption, to truck with it, to erase a trade embargo and to give that despotism an economic shot in the arm.
One hopes that either Hillary or The Donald will be a ton more cynical about the prospects of a freer Cuba given the survival of a nomenclatura that has been trained and favored by the Castros and that makes any meaningful change other than economic extremely unlikely.
The difference between Cuba and Vietnam is that the latter never was a part of our proper sphere of influence, geographically or culturally; while Cuba lies about 100 miles off our southern shore.
This is an age of cultural relativism, where a despotism that has imposed its will on a people for over 65 years is now considered sufficiently rehabilitated, in the utter absence of any evidence to support the assumption, to truck with it, to erase a trade embargo and to give that despotism an economic shot in the arm.
One hopes that either Hillary or The Donald will be a ton more cynical about the prospects of a freer Cuba given the survival of a nomenclatura that has been trained and favored by the Castros and that makes any meaningful change other than economic extremely unlikely.
The difference between Cuba and Vietnam is that the latter never was a part of our proper sphere of influence, geographically or culturally; while Cuba lies about 100 miles off our southern shore.
3
Not quite sure what your point is. Ukraine and Russia share a border, so they are zero miles apart and this puts Ukraine in Russia's "proper" sphere of influence. So does that give Russia the right to determine how Ukraine governs itself?
11
Luettgen**** Well by your logic ( which hardly ever makes any sense anyway ) we should not trade with any number of countries that have human rights violations, including one of our largest China. And what is Obama supposed to do beside mentioning human rights, drop some bombs??? I would remind you that this country has more people in prison per capita than any other country, many on ridiculous drug related charges. And who are we to lecture any one anyway with the likes of Donald Trump ( whom you mention ) as the standard bearer for one of our parties. Once again alot of big words from you saying nothing.
7
I find it more than a little ironic that many of us, as citizens of a country with an adult incarceration rate of 698 per 100K population, feel we have the moral high ground from which to look down upon Cuba, which has a lesser adult incarceration rate of 510 per 100K population. Human rights abuses, there's no doubt they occur in Cuba, now start acknowledging the reality is that the USA is no better, and by at least one measure, worse than the ruling Cuban regime. Quibble as likely you and your conservative cohorts will about the differences in reasons for incarceration, but whether your life is ruined by being jailed for political reasons, or being jailed for some minor drug possession charge, compounded by the inherent racial bias in the US judicial system, it all boils down to the same thing, unjust denial of freedom and the baseless ruination of lives.
Pot meet kettle.
Pot meet kettle.
6
There was an excellent documentary on CNN last night about Cuba (The Wonder List) where the "average Cubans" got to voice their hopes and fears about the current opening between Cuba and the US.
The general sense was that Cubans, although hopeful about a more open relationship with the US, were very apprehensive about being overwhelmed by the US, both commercially and politically. It would be a crying shame if our ever-greedy corporations swarmed unchecked into Cuba, like a Locus pest, and made it into an image of Miami.
One of the interesting after-effects of the fall of Communism and German reunification is that, although "East Germans" in general are grateful for the political and economic improvements, there is a sense of loss about the social solidarity that seemed to have existed in the old DDR.
The general sense was that Cubans, although hopeful about a more open relationship with the US, were very apprehensive about being overwhelmed by the US, both commercially and politically. It would be a crying shame if our ever-greedy corporations swarmed unchecked into Cuba, like a Locus pest, and made it into an image of Miami.
One of the interesting after-effects of the fall of Communism and German reunification is that, although "East Germans" in general are grateful for the political and economic improvements, there is a sense of loss about the social solidarity that seemed to have existed in the old DDR.
27
Florida organic farmers are wondering about an influx of Cuban fruits and veggies, everything from tomatoes to yuca.
I suppose that Cuba's, or at least Havana's, prospects are better than those of Port-au-Prince, Santo Domingo, or Kingstown. How about San Juan, whose residents who have good job prospects are moving to Orlando?
Is there any prospect for getting rid of the strange American system of allocating sugar production and prices? That's an area where Cuba could once again become competitive, at a time when political support for sugar production in the Everglades Agricultural Area might finally be fading.
Eco-tourism? The American public may be more accustomed to Costa Rica, but Cuba is impressive in its own way, including spectacular Cuba-only Copernicia palms (a genus named after the great astronomer).
I suppose that Cuba's, or at least Havana's, prospects are better than those of Port-au-Prince, Santo Domingo, or Kingstown. How about San Juan, whose residents who have good job prospects are moving to Orlando?
Is there any prospect for getting rid of the strange American system of allocating sugar production and prices? That's an area where Cuba could once again become competitive, at a time when political support for sugar production in the Everglades Agricultural Area might finally be fading.
Eco-tourism? The American public may be more accustomed to Costa Rica, but Cuba is impressive in its own way, including spectacular Cuba-only Copernicia palms (a genus named after the great astronomer).
4
Appreciate the comment below about U.S. and Cuba 'giving up their cold war grudges'. President Obama has created a version of his own 'third way' in his approach to 'real-politic' in today's world. He should be applauded. I hope that the next administration and those to come will not easily disregard his personal statesmanship and thoughtful approach to politics and diplomacy, exhibited throughout his presidency, which has spurred this historic moment.
Of course, he will not be congratulated about it or esteemed in anyway.
Rather, to be made to seem the fool by cable and political party-pundits and others stuck in old patterns of resentment and power-politics. I am not unaware of Mr. Obama's failings (Syria being the most egregious) and Mr. Cohen's disappointment about our pulling back from world-influence. But, I do believe that in time as a country we will miss his determined, disciplined and thoughtful approach. In fact, I believe he has helped to restore confidence and credibility in our role in the world. Whatever the election outcome in November, it will be a sad day for the country on January 20.
Of course, he will not be congratulated about it or esteemed in anyway.
Rather, to be made to seem the fool by cable and political party-pundits and others stuck in old patterns of resentment and power-politics. I am not unaware of Mr. Obama's failings (Syria being the most egregious) and Mr. Cohen's disappointment about our pulling back from world-influence. But, I do believe that in time as a country we will miss his determined, disciplined and thoughtful approach. In fact, I believe he has helped to restore confidence and credibility in our role in the world. Whatever the election outcome in November, it will be a sad day for the country on January 20.
65
Utopia exists only in the rich imagination of dreamers. A fair shot at a free and decent living is a worthy consolation prize. We would do well to remember that here in the Home of the Brave.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
7
Wishful thinking a fantasy ! or maybe in 20 years after the Castro regime is gone
I am sure the Cuban people will continue to push for a change in government and we should be ready to help them
Empowering the communist regime is not what Americans want
I am sure the Cuban people will continue to push for a change in government and we should be ready to help them
Empowering the communist regime is not what Americans want
1
so you prefer the incredibly effective relationship of the last nearly 60 years?? It's worked just great!
2
I feel more than a "twinge of ambivalence" at the potential loss of Cuba's enviable record of environmental stewardship. They have healthy, fertile soil, intact forests and the only thriving coral reef in the Caribbean. Natural resources like these are essential for the well-being of future generations, but rapacious capitalism is incapable of thinking beyond short-term gains.
57
It is sad that the Cuban people will choose between poverty, oppression, and thriving coral reefs on one hand, and a decent standard of living and an abused environment on the other.
6
One can only hope and pray that somehow Cubas leaders will have the wherewithal to maintain their environmental treasures... The forests and coral reefs particularly. It's time that the priceless be made valuable.
1
Hopefully the coca cola will be mixed with good Cuban rum and the spirit will remain within the blend of floating cigar smoke and jazzy local vibe.....C..
6
Such a column of gloom and doom on a day that is filled with hope for those in Cuba as well as those of us in the US who see it as a positive thing that the US and Cuba are now going to work together instead of us pretending that they aren't there and meanwhile living with the insanity of the US throughout the cold war and embargo having a naval base at Guantanamo. A base that we now use to hold prisoners from the Middle East who we suspect are enemies. There are people on here wondering when the President will demand the return of Joanne Chesimard -- perhaps Raul Castro will also demand that we leave Guantanamo Bay Naval Base which we extracted from Cuba by threat of force and a treaty in 1902 and perhaps they'll demand that we take the prisoners being held there with us and relocate them to the US.
Let's hope that Cuba can move into an economy that benefits many and not just a few and that they capitalize on what makes Cubans and their nation unique instead of just accepting a lot of what has homogenized America - the same fast food restaurants everywhere, the same coffee shops, etc. Maybe we should wait and see what they choose to adopt and which companies they decide to allow to operate in Cuba. Bottomline -- anytime nations and people can talk to one another instead of flashing hatred, bombs and guns as a means of "communicating" -- I think we are looking at a good thing.
Let's hope that Cuba can move into an economy that benefits many and not just a few and that they capitalize on what makes Cubans and their nation unique instead of just accepting a lot of what has homogenized America - the same fast food restaurants everywhere, the same coffee shops, etc. Maybe we should wait and see what they choose to adopt and which companies they decide to allow to operate in Cuba. Bottomline -- anytime nations and people can talk to one another instead of flashing hatred, bombs and guns as a means of "communicating" -- I think we are looking at a good thing.
18
Giving credit to Cohen here not over-romanticizing the poverty of Cuba. The old cars, the empty ocean, the beautiful buildings--they're all fun to look at as long as you're a visitor. The elements of Cuban life that people in the United States so often romanticize aren't really romantic at all, they're symbols of the crushing poverty and oppression faced by the Cuban people on a daily basis. There's nothing beautiful about suffering.
29
Vietnam. Think of the ignorance of Truman to rebuff Ho Chi Minh and set in motion the loss of almost two million dead and twice that number injured and maimed. Only for simple history to remind us that Vietnam has been more worried about China for millennia. What must the survivors of that murderous ignorance think now.
And Cuba ... will imperial Capitalism result in another faux-Battista regime? Another New Orleans debauchery? A `trinket' society?
And Cuba ... will imperial Capitalism result in another faux-Battista regime? Another New Orleans debauchery? A `trinket' society?
13
It was Charles de Gaulle who put the liberation of Saigon right up there with that of Strasbourg so that he could reclaim France's "patrimonies." The British allowed French forces to return to Indochina in 1945, and Admiral and Carmelite monk Thierry d'Argenlieu opened fire on the Vietnamese, thus igniting Vietnam's 30 years war. Can't blame poor Harry for everything. He had accomplices.
15
It's going to be the forces of historic preservation vs. the forces of commercial rapacity. Saving the best of Cuba's wonderful architectural charms, in old Havana and elsewhere, should be at the top of the To Do lists for organizations like the World Monuments Fund. No matter how great the economic gain, we - and the Cubans - cannot let the island turn into a facsimile of the South Florida that has become a Gaza Strip of wall-to-wall, water-guzzling condos and half-empty shopping malls.
13
Amen. I saw it all happen personally. Sad. South Florida was once beautiful. Had character. Let's hope Cuba is spared the same god-forsaken fate. There was a book written, I think. "The Geography of Nowhere"
1
Capitalism can promote dramatic economic growth by unleashing human energies and the widespread desire to improve one's standard of living. But it accomplishes these changes by converting anything marketable into a product. It does not directly promote democracy, as China demonstrates, and it causes economic inequality.
A society that seeks democracy and wishes to curtail inequality must find inspiration outside capitalism. Neither the US nor any other wealthy democracy allows capitalism free reign. They use regulation and outright prohibition to constrain markets within the limits their citizens find acceptable. America doesn't do this as well as many of us would like, but ultimately that is a political decision, which can always change.
Vietnam and Cuba seek capitalism without democracy. China has shown the viability of that choice, but only the future will determine whether the citizens of those countries will permit the government to adhere to it over the long run.
A society that seeks democracy and wishes to curtail inequality must find inspiration outside capitalism. Neither the US nor any other wealthy democracy allows capitalism free reign. They use regulation and outright prohibition to constrain markets within the limits their citizens find acceptable. America doesn't do this as well as many of us would like, but ultimately that is a political decision, which can always change.
Vietnam and Cuba seek capitalism without democracy. China has shown the viability of that choice, but only the future will determine whether the citizens of those countries will permit the government to adhere to it over the long run.
18
Unlike Mexico, whose top ten exports coincide with the USA in industrial products with the exception of aircraft, it seems that Cuba is destined to become the exception to the outsourcing plaguing our middle working class. Will the engrained revolutionary thinking of the Cuban people cause greater demand for fairness or succumb to exploitation due to extended denial of material goods & living standard & bow to the forces, for example ,of the long time co-conspiring governments of the USA & Mexico perpetuating the dominance of their respective plutocracies?
The economically failed Cuban revolution could ironically eventually become the liberator of it's people in the transition to a greater balance, looking toward progressive Western Europe democracies, rather than the present retrograde USA for a template.
The economically failed Cuban revolution could ironically eventually become the liberator of it's people in the transition to a greater balance, looking toward progressive Western Europe democracies, rather than the present retrograde USA for a template.
18
Your observations expose your lack of travel experience and historical background. You seem to forget that Saigon was under the colonial thumb of France for almost a century, during which they forced their idea of civilazation down their throats, along with their Catholic religion, hence the western items you mention in your first paragraph with the incredible idea that this has all occurred in the last 50 years since the war crimes the United States committed there in the name of stopping communism. Sometimes I wonder if you have ever left the U.S., and if you own a computer with an internet connection.
6
Two different presidents (Johnson and Nixon) tried to draft me into the army and send me to Vietnam to either die or be dismembered in a war that few wanted. I wasn't interested in being returned in a flag draped casket or being buried at Arlington National Cemetery, so I didn't go.
As often happens, years after the war is over, the two countries make friends and trade with each other, something they easily could have done without the war.
Cuba is the same except, instead of a war, we had a nuclear showdown that could have killed us all, simply because Lyndon Johnson thought communism was going to destroy us all if left to grow.
I sent a hand written letter to Nixon asking him to resign, which he eventually did, because he lied to America and deliberately prolonged the war.
If we Americans had exercised good judgment and ignored the angry Cuban community in Florida, normal relations with Cuba would have occurred 55 years ago with no Cuban missile crisis.
The lesson for all of we surviving Americans is to never let a politician persuade us that the military solution is the correct choice. It almost never was throughout history!
As often happens, years after the war is over, the two countries make friends and trade with each other, something they easily could have done without the war.
Cuba is the same except, instead of a war, we had a nuclear showdown that could have killed us all, simply because Lyndon Johnson thought communism was going to destroy us all if left to grow.
I sent a hand written letter to Nixon asking him to resign, which he eventually did, because he lied to America and deliberately prolonged the war.
If we Americans had exercised good judgment and ignored the angry Cuban community in Florida, normal relations with Cuba would have occurred 55 years ago with no Cuban missile crisis.
The lesson for all of we surviving Americans is to never let a politician persuade us that the military solution is the correct choice. It almost never was throughout history!
102
michael kittle*** I like this but I don't quite understand the Lyndon Johnson reference in relation to Cuba. The missile crisis happened under Kennedy and Johnson didn't run again mostly because he didn't want to be President and keep sending soldiers to die in Vietnam.
2
r....yes, my sentence is confusing and should reference Vietnam and not Cuba...thanks for the correction...this is what happens without proper editing
3
And working for lousy wages in a Walmart or a hotel is better than a life with time for singing and dancing on the streets because?
56
"singing and dancing in the streets"
Dancing in the streets not possible due to number of potholes
Dancing in the streets not possible due to number of potholes
2
Perfectly stated.
2
I think you mean a life of food rations, poverty, and the most restrictive free speech laws in the Western Hemisphere.
4
When my wife and I visited Vietnam in 2000 I was struck by changes that had occurred since I'd served there in the 199th Light Infantry Brigade. I had to search for evidence there had been a war, excepting reminders the government preserved.
Everywhere there was capitalism, mostly controlled, but capitalism nevertheless, and, though controlled, enterprising individuals found ways to operate, and not at all what could be dismissed as "in the shadows." We bought coffee in Hanoi in a cafe operated by a man from Seattle. Our first day in Ho Chi Minh City we were marketed by a bell-hop to hire him to go visit places where I'd served, with "a cousin" who, he said, had a car.
We did. The "car" turned out to be a very new van, and the cousin turned out to be two men, neither of whom spoke English. They did take us everywhere, and one of the best meals we had in Vietnam was in small, clean, non government sanctioned restaurant operated by friends, networking to share some of the river of U.S. revenue.
I have fellow veterans still chastise me for promoting Vietnam, like friends of my parents who disapproved of Japanese and German products decades after World War II. But what saddened me as I visited sites where 65 friends were maimed and 12 died was that leaders in that age lacked the vision to avoid war.
I'll celebrate as we and the Castros let go of our past. We want to go to Cuba to help, just as I think we did in Vietnam.
This cold war has gone on far too long.
Everywhere there was capitalism, mostly controlled, but capitalism nevertheless, and, though controlled, enterprising individuals found ways to operate, and not at all what could be dismissed as "in the shadows." We bought coffee in Hanoi in a cafe operated by a man from Seattle. Our first day in Ho Chi Minh City we were marketed by a bell-hop to hire him to go visit places where I'd served, with "a cousin" who, he said, had a car.
We did. The "car" turned out to be a very new van, and the cousin turned out to be two men, neither of whom spoke English. They did take us everywhere, and one of the best meals we had in Vietnam was in small, clean, non government sanctioned restaurant operated by friends, networking to share some of the river of U.S. revenue.
I have fellow veterans still chastise me for promoting Vietnam, like friends of my parents who disapproved of Japanese and German products decades after World War II. But what saddened me as I visited sites where 65 friends were maimed and 12 died was that leaders in that age lacked the vision to avoid war.
I'll celebrate as we and the Castros let go of our past. We want to go to Cuba to help, just as I think we did in Vietnam.
This cold war has gone on far too long.
111
This is an interesting comment from one who was there during a disastrous war. But I had to pause in reading "We want to go to Cuba to help, just as I think we did in Vietnam." I'm not aware of what "we" did to "help" Vietnam after devastating so much of it. Are you referring to capitalism's post-American War surge into Ho Chi Min City?
1
leftcoastTAM
My wife and I helped, in our opinion, in a small way, and "we" want to help in Cuba, in the small way we can help...
My wife and I helped, in our opinion, in a small way, and "we" want to help in Cuba, in the small way we can help...
2
I went to Vietnam with a Rotary "reconciliation, provide medical equipment" delegation. I was the only non Vietnam veteran. Twice we were told, "you certainly didn't know much about us! Why didn't you know that we have been at war with China for 2000 years?" And sure enough, the first thing that happened after we left Vietnam and China had a border war.. And now Vietnam will benefit more from TPTP than anyone and no one wants us in the South China Sea than Vietnam. So much for the domino theory that justified our intervention in Vietnam.
2
Humans are greedy for money and power. money and power corrupt. What else is new, Roger?
Democracy is the worst political system ever devised, except for all the others. I wonder what Churchill would make of the late Hugo Chavez, elected by a fair popular vote, and of Donald Trump, who probably won't make it because the US has fewer totally-fed-up voters than did Venezuela. Or of Bush II, who was elected by a 5-4 majority, fewer by far than the number of folks who choose the rulers of China or Vietnam.
No, Virginia, there is no Santa Claus. Nor any bed of roses, anywhere, anyway, anytime. No wonder our forbears dreamed up the Garden of Eden.
Democracy is the worst political system ever devised, except for all the others. I wonder what Churchill would make of the late Hugo Chavez, elected by a fair popular vote, and of Donald Trump, who probably won't make it because the US has fewer totally-fed-up voters than did Venezuela. Or of Bush II, who was elected by a 5-4 majority, fewer by far than the number of folks who choose the rulers of China or Vietnam.
No, Virginia, there is no Santa Claus. Nor any bed of roses, anywhere, anyway, anytime. No wonder our forbears dreamed up the Garden of Eden.
30
America did not lose a war against communism in Viet Nam.
America lost a war of colonial occupation to the Vietnamese seeking their independence.
The independence that Ho Chi Minh, in rented morning coat, petitioned for at the 1919 Versailles Treaty Conference.
The road to independence that US WW II ally Ho Chi Minh petitioned for, in six letters to Truman, asking that he "make Viet Nam a US Protectorate, like the Philippines".
60
True, but the American government thought it was fighting communism, and turned that into a self fulfilling prophecy.
There is a lesson for the present in such self fulfilling fears. War on Terror, War on Drugs, Homeland Security, we have many examples of "fighting" something that only promotes its opposite.
There is a lesson for the present in such self fulfilling fears. War on Terror, War on Drugs, Homeland Security, we have many examples of "fighting" something that only promotes its opposite.
3
Two old pithy verdicts on communism and capitalism come to mind.
Skeptical American journalist to Fidel Castro: Has communism solved all your problems?
Castro to said journalist: : Has capitalism solved
yours?
And then there is this from the late J.K. Galbraith:
In capitalism , man exploits man. In communism, it's the other way round.
Skeptical American journalist to Fidel Castro: Has communism solved all your problems?
Castro to said journalist: : Has capitalism solved
yours?
And then there is this from the late J.K. Galbraith:
In capitalism , man exploits man. In communism, it's the other way round.
87
Vip Chandra
Pithy comments though they be they sarcastically, if sadly, cut to the heart of the matter. Thanks for reminding us of them.
Pithy comments though they be they sarcastically, if sadly, cut to the heart of the matter. Thanks for reminding us of them.
24
Thank you. From your other comment, I take it that you are essentially a pragmatist like me. Fanatical ideological blinders of any kind, secular or religious, of the right or of the left, have indeed wreaked too much preventable havoc on the world . Time for everyone to dust off our old copies of Jeremy Bentham and John Dewey The world needs to be reinvigorated with their life-affirming wisdom .
3
We have seen the enemy, and it is us. Humans are an abject failure as a species. The sooner we are gone, the better. Maybe the next species with a big brain will actually show some intelligence without the selfishness and cruelty toward others.
I was there in '96....I traveled from Quito to La Havana, and had no problem getting a visa as an American citizen....was there for a week....arrived at night, traveled down La Quinta Avenida and thought, this is not so bad.....then traveled down the same road in daylight...almost fell off my seat...all crumbling ruins.....they had nothing, no aspirin, no razors...were feasting on soda crackers as if it was the finest food ever....I cannot wait for them to become a Mini Miami.....Viva Cuba libre carajo....
3
That visit took place during the "special period"--were you aware of that?
God forbid. The last thing we need is another Miami, without any consideration for the environment. I know. I am an active environmentalist here.
2
I'm happy that the US is abandoning its obsolete Cold War grudges and re-engaging 20th century "enemies." This is progress for us. But progress for Cuba?
Let's really look at what's happening in Vietnam. Sure, poverty has declined significantly in the past two decades, but inequality is on the rise and economic growth is stagnating. Embracing global capitalism leads to rapid growth for a period of time as a new market filled with new consumers and workers emerges, but eventually that market becomes saturated and growth stalls as workers compete in the global race to the bottom. Every emerging market has a honeymoon period, and then their fate is the same: social stratification as the investing class profits while the workers sink into ever-increasing despair.
I hope the Cubans don't trade in their equality for new malls that smell nice. I hope they don't sell off their public assets to foreign investors trying to make a quick buck. Democracy is ruling and being ruled in turn, and this enterprise is thwarted when elites assume power. It doesn't matter if those elites are officials of The Party or members of the Billionaire Class.
Let's really look at what's happening in Vietnam. Sure, poverty has declined significantly in the past two decades, but inequality is on the rise and economic growth is stagnating. Embracing global capitalism leads to rapid growth for a period of time as a new market filled with new consumers and workers emerges, but eventually that market becomes saturated and growth stalls as workers compete in the global race to the bottom. Every emerging market has a honeymoon period, and then their fate is the same: social stratification as the investing class profits while the workers sink into ever-increasing despair.
I hope the Cubans don't trade in their equality for new malls that smell nice. I hope they don't sell off their public assets to foreign investors trying to make a quick buck. Democracy is ruling and being ruled in turn, and this enterprise is thwarted when elites assume power. It doesn't matter if those elites are officials of The Party or members of the Billionaire Class.
52
Well said. I noted with interest that( according to a Times report) "dozens " of American businessmen landed in Havana along with President Obama. From my point of view, the salivating tycoons from the U.S. should have been disallowed on this occasion. The White House appears to have acted in concert with them. Was it too much to ask that such unseemliness not tarnish Obama's historic visit, that the President not be made to appear as the leader of a bunch of carpetbaggers? Business ties will naturally develop between the U.S. and Cuba from now on, but why the symbolism of such odious haste?
25
Having done extended field research in northern Vietnam between 1988 and 2003 I have no doubts that inequality measured in terms of per capita income greatly increased during the country's transition to a (mostly) market economic system. But I have real doubts that social inequality has worsened. Before the economic reforms of the 1980s, no one was rich in material goods, but there was a vast differential between people in their ability to access the limited supplies of goods and services that were available in a desperately poor society. Only those with political power or connections to those with power could obtain simple necessities of life like aspirin. Over the years since the economic reforms were implemented, absolute poverty has greatly declined but relative poverty has greatly increased. But of more than 100 rural people I interviewed during this time, only 2 (both former local officials who had lost their privileged positions) said that their personal lives had gotten worse; everyone else, even the very poorest in economic terms, said their lives had gotten significantly better. Despite the horrors of modern capitalist development that Mr Cohen has so well described, no one wants to go back to the days of "egalitarian"socialism.And, despite my own distaste for many aspects of life in Vietnam now, I can hardly blame them,
11
poverty has declined significantly in the past two decades, but inequality is on the rise and economic growth is stagnating. Embracing global capitalism leads to rapid growth for a period of time as a new market filled with new consumers and workers emerges, but eventually that market becomes saturated and growth stalls as workers compete in the global race to the bottom. Every emerging market has a honeymoon period, and then their fate is the same: social stratification as the investing class profits while the workers sink into ever-increasing despair.
That from Deepa from Seattle. Is the comment about Vietnam or the United States? "We have seen the enemy and it as us".
That from Deepa from Seattle. Is the comment about Vietnam or the United States? "We have seen the enemy and it as us".
Mel Brooks said it all:
"It's good to be the King!"