I spent my first 15 or 16 years growing up in a 2nd floor apartment in upper Manhattan. Our building sat over the last stop of the "A" train in Inwood. The trains rumbled at all times of the day & night (as did fire & police sirens). When we moved to the 6th floor in the same building, my mother hoped that the subway noise would be diminished. She quickly found out no such luck.
1
What about the helicopters roaring through multiple neighborhoods?
1
I've lived in various buildings for 30 years in Brooklyn Heights between the Montague St. (N/R) and Cranberry Street (A/C) tunnels, and while you can definitely feel the rumble, I've never found it a nuisance. My son has always loved it.
Did the couple move in before the Montague Tunnel reopened post-Sandy, and then suddenly realize they were over a subway line?
Did the couple move in before the Montague Tunnel reopened post-Sandy, and then suddenly realize they were over a subway line?
2
A pool in your building? What's the address as I need a place to chill when summer gets here - hahahaha
1
I've contacted the MTA on several occasions over the last several years. This is a relatively new problem, but a serious one. I have described the sound and vibrations to the MTA as mini-earthquakes. This couple is not "overly sensitive." This is more than a nuisance-the vibrations have wrecked my nervous system, shattered pictures on the wall, destroyed vases, and various objets d'art that was on shelves, and has cracked the walls in my brownstone. The MTA came to measure the vibrations, and deemed them acceptable, although they did detect track problems that was intensifying the noise and sensation. I wish that more people would complain, as this is unacceptable.
6
To the couple in Brooklyn Heights: if you decide to break your lease and need a new tenant, please let me know. Your apartment sounds lovely.
Seriously. Did you even spend time in Brooklyn Heights before you moved there? Even the recently shuttered theater had subway noise. My current apartment's windows look out onto the subway, and the noise is insane, but it's affordable and across the street from a world-class park, sooo tradeoffs.
You're living in one of the most amazing neighborhoods in the city. Suck it up.
Seriously. Did you even spend time in Brooklyn Heights before you moved there? Even the recently shuttered theater had subway noise. My current apartment's windows look out onto the subway, and the noise is insane, but it's affordable and across the street from a world-class park, sooo tradeoffs.
You're living in one of the most amazing neighborhoods in the city. Suck it up.
3
No need to pay $4,000 for a noise consultant. There's an app for that! For just a few dollars, you can download a noise meter that can tell you the train-free decibel level and show you how high it goes when the subway is on the move. That type of hard information will be much more effective in helping you negotiate with your landlord than the opinions of random friends who've been invited for a meal.
14
Once I was a very sad real estate agent being threatened with court over this very thing. Renting out a downtown 2500 sq.ft(approximate!) loft in a Landmark building, asking $11,000 a month in rent, the client/renter came to view the space at various appointment times that were to his convenience. He then moved in and 2 weeks later, owner and brokerage were being threatened with legal action. The fight went back and forth for months between the landlord/owner, the hotheaded renter, the real estate agents and the lawyers and of course in the end, everybody settled. It cost a lot of time and a lot of money. But the joke is, just a couple years later, the loft was then sold for roughly $2.7M and then sold again 3 years later for nearly $2.9M. The basic lesson is that anyone can decide to challenge people in court over anything. But its all an act, which you might say has shaped and defined the Trumpian times we now live in. In this system, "The more I see of men the more I like dogs" - Madame de Stael
2
The fact is that real estate agents are often very unfamiliar with the product they are selling. That is why there are home inspections and such outside NYC. In NYC often there are not because the buyer or renter is pressured not to get one or it is not common practice required by law. I have bought 8 coop/condos apartments in NYC and never has the real estate agent on either side suggested I get a professional home inspection done.
3
Most people get used to the noise. When we looked at our apt, it was quiet as a mouse. Move in, and we hear the buses going in and out the bus station every minute of the day and night. The first month, we were angry. Then all of a sudden, you learn to sleep and work and live right through it. Dinner guests determining if it's loud is a very bad idea. They don't live there. I used to live about 20 feet from the railroad tracks. The train would whistle at 4 am. I couldn't be on the phone - people thought it was nuts. After a few weeks, I slept right through it. So I suggest giving it a try. If it's unbearable, you could try to leave in 9 months, claiming a personal crisis. I doubt the landlord will allow it earlier.
5
Studies have shown that even when those subject to unusually high levels of nighttime noise think they are "used to" a noise and can sleep right through it, their blood pressure and other vital signs rise in response to the stress. In any case, a person can be awakened by a noise, but fall back asleep so quickly as not to realize that the event even happened. Most sleep apnea sufferers aren't even aware that they are awakening many times during the night, until a sleep study ordered in response to daytime sleepiness, cardiac arrhythmia, or some other symptom documents that fact.
10
Have to disagree. You never get 'used' to it - your body registers each assault.
2
Smoke from school - First check in with the school building officials and then with whoever operates the other end of the chimney. They may or may not have any idea of what's happening at the far end. A quiet question is always a better way to start.
19
For the renters allowing guests access to the pool - the unit owners should be made aware their tenants are violating the building rules before the board attempts to take action against them. If the owners are informed, they may prove very willing to direct their tenants to follow the rules - or lose access to the amenities.
26
Subway noise, like many other issues living in a big city, is a subject of "due diligence" to any new tenant. Going into a lease "blind" is not a cause to revoke the lease. If there is a trucking company next door to the building, and you view the apartment on a Sunday when there's no activity there, it would be in anyone's best interest to come back on a weekday and see how that may affect your tenancy. Indeed, one of the first things tenants in NYC look for is how close the subway is for the commuting needs. If subway noise was a cause to get out of a lease, than thousands of apartments in the outer boroughs would be vacant because of an El Structure nearby. Yet, people have persevered with those noises for at least a century.
They'd be better off trying to negotiate themselves out of the lease than attempt to make a legal argument that will cost them a ton of money and get no results.
They'd be better off trying to negotiate themselves out of the lease than attempt to make a legal argument that will cost them a ton of money and get no results.
18
Every apartment I've lived in in the city has had subway rumblings and vibrations. If it's not from the subway, it's from trucks making deliveries overnight, or snowplows, or the bass from clubs or bars streets away.... Seconding the point about due diligence. If you rented an apartment without inspecting it, you wouldn't have the right to break the lease because every detail was not disclosed. I also have personal experience trying to get out of a lease because of noise issues -- it is virtually impossible to show that it breaks the warrant of habitability, as unpleasant as it is. Much better to try to negotiate. Or find a sublessor who isn't disturbed by the noise (even if you have to subsidize their rent a bit).
Regarding the pool situation: a couple of weeks of brief discrete cell phone videos will help make the case. Rotate your crew of residents and compile the collected videos and take them and your narrative to the higher ups. Have people work in pairs so it looks like they are video ing their buddy while actually video ing the offenders.
13
Regarding the apartment with the subway noise: some of the answer given here doesn't really ring true.
The tenants would have a hard time proving that they had no idea there was a subway in close proximity to the apartment. If they are on an avenue with a train line this would be common knowledge, and proximity to the train might even haven been a selling point. It's also hard to believe their visit was scheduled to prevent them from hearing the train. Subways in New York City run frequently, so it is very possible it was running when they viewed the apartment, and that they didn't notice it.
The kinds of things that an owner or an agent have an obligation to disclose are generally those that are specific to the property, and not assumed to be able to be known by the general public. For instance, a barking dog next door or a mold condition in the unit would need to be disclosed, if known, but a murder that too place in the building next door would not be, since it's regarded to be information that is publicly known. If the tenants asked about the train, and were told there is no noise, that's different.
The opinions of the friends of the tenants would have no legal bearing in this case.
The tenants would have a hard time proving that they had no idea there was a subway in close proximity to the apartment. If they are on an avenue with a train line this would be common knowledge, and proximity to the train might even haven been a selling point. It's also hard to believe their visit was scheduled to prevent them from hearing the train. Subways in New York City run frequently, so it is very possible it was running when they viewed the apartment, and that they didn't notice it.
The kinds of things that an owner or an agent have an obligation to disclose are generally those that are specific to the property, and not assumed to be able to be known by the general public. For instance, a barking dog next door or a mold condition in the unit would need to be disclosed, if known, but a murder that too place in the building next door would not be, since it's regarded to be information that is publicly known. If the tenants asked about the train, and were told there is no noise, that's different.
The opinions of the friends of the tenants would have no legal bearing in this case.
12
Regarding "Noise Problems" --
"It is possible that you and your husband are more sensitive to such disturbances than the average New Yorker."
Arturo Toscanini - the great Italian maestro - produced some of his wonderful symphonic recordings with the NBC Symphony live - in Carnegie Hall --
It is well-known among aficionados and audiophiles that - during certain quiet passages in the music - if you listen closely, you can hear what seems like a faint rumbling sound in the distance --
Is it thunder...?
No -- it's the subway as it passes through the station underneath Carnegie Hall --
"It is possible that you and your husband are more sensitive to such disturbances than the average New Yorker."
Arturo Toscanini - the great Italian maestro - produced some of his wonderful symphonic recordings with the NBC Symphony live - in Carnegie Hall --
It is well-known among aficionados and audiophiles that - during certain quiet passages in the music - if you listen closely, you can hear what seems like a faint rumbling sound in the distance --
Is it thunder...?
No -- it's the subway as it passes through the station underneath Carnegie Hall --
24
I'm curious about subway noise in Brooklyn Heights, where I live. Since the neighborhood is right on the riverfront the subways are deep underground, and the stations at Clark Street and Court Street require elevators as well as flights of stairs to reach the platforms. At High Street, the A/C is at least 4 stories down via escalator.
Are you new to New York? It's a loud place.
Are you new to New York? It's a loud place.
5
@Michael C: I'm willing to bet the Brooklyn Heights location in question is on Joralemon Street, where the subway ISN'T so deep as you describe.
4
Here in Newark, especially in the warmer months, the overnight noise levels can become unbearable. At first I thought I would go mad, and the cops were no help, but I eventually I resigned myself to the inevitable. Yes, you too, will get used to it, mainly because you won't be able to afford a better place.
3
@Ron Bannon: The solution you're looking for: "white noise machine". It's the only way to get through the nights in noisy areas.
An air conditioner performs that function during the summer, but year-round I have a white noise machine running on my nightstand to be able to sleep. I recommend the kind you can get at Hammacher Schlemmer (the same kind you see in shrinks' offices) - they are very durable, and you can adjust the loudness.
An air conditioner performs that function during the summer, but year-round I have a white noise machine running on my nightstand to be able to sleep. I recommend the kind you can get at Hammacher Schlemmer (the same kind you see in shrinks' offices) - they are very durable, and you can adjust the loudness.
7
Ah, the subways! The first time I heard the work train rattle at two in the morning beneath my parents' house -- it was a track so rarely used that we'd never heard it before -- I thought Ben Hur's chariot race had come to town. (I was very young.) When the express began to use that track from four in the afternoon until about 7:30PM, we simply got used to it. The brass coffee table and everything on it vibrated and sang.
Now I live in a different house, but the brass coffee table is now mine; when the subway passes, as it does every five minutes or so, day and night, the table and everything on it vibrates and sings. Sounds just like home.
Now I live in a different house, but the brass coffee table is now mine; when the subway passes, as it does every five minutes or so, day and night, the table and everything on it vibrates and sings. Sounds just like home.
7
P.S. One of my apartments was on an avenue serviced by several express and local buses. The old diesel engines deposited exquisitely round daubs of fuel oil on my windowsills. Another apartment was beneath the flight path of planes flying into La Guardia Airport -- and, in addition, was above a subway train.
This is New York City. Some things we can't control. Loud car radios and loud young men who cavort at 3AM -- that, you'd think, we could control.
This is New York City. Some things we can't control. Loud car radios and loud young men who cavort at 3AM -- that, you'd think, we could control.
4
Regarding the noise, I thought the response from the experts was quite generous. Frankly, I think one thing most New Yorkers who have lived here for a while know is that they need to do their homework and "due diligence" when it comes to real estate. I wonder if the questioners are recent arrivals from suburbia or the midwest.
Not long ago I was doing my laundry in the ground floor laundry room of my 200+ unit building when one of the many sorority girl types who have moved in recently came in and asked me to stop making noise, as it was disturbing her. I felt like saying something like "honey, did it ever occur to you to look and see what was underneath your second floor apartment?" I was quite surprised by this as she seemed the type of girl who insists on seeing the laundry room and carefully examining the laundry equipment in every building she looks at. In this case, if she did, didn't it occur to her people in the city that never sleeps might be doing laundry in the evenings? Likewise, if one advantage of an apt. listing is that it is around the corner from a subway stop, maybe that means you need to check and see if the subway runs under the apt.
Regarding the ear plug suggestion, maybe those recommended work, but my experience with more common earplugs is that while they help with noise abatement, they do not help with vibration abatement.
Not long ago I was doing my laundry in the ground floor laundry room of my 200+ unit building when one of the many sorority girl types who have moved in recently came in and asked me to stop making noise, as it was disturbing her. I felt like saying something like "honey, did it ever occur to you to look and see what was underneath your second floor apartment?" I was quite surprised by this as she seemed the type of girl who insists on seeing the laundry room and carefully examining the laundry equipment in every building she looks at. In this case, if she did, didn't it occur to her people in the city that never sleeps might be doing laundry in the evenings? Likewise, if one advantage of an apt. listing is that it is around the corner from a subway stop, maybe that means you need to check and see if the subway runs under the apt.
Regarding the ear plug suggestion, maybe those recommended work, but my experience with more common earplugs is that while they help with noise abatement, they do not help with vibration abatement.
8
I would have told her to go back to the middle America state she came from and continued doing my laundry.
1
"In the last six months, the New York City Transit Authority received just two complaints about subway vibrations inside an apartment, according to the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. So your situation certainly sounds like an unusual one." HAH! That's a good one! This situation is not at ALL unusual, it's just that New Yorkers would never call the MTA to complain - what good what that do? Are they going to stop the subways? Move the train line or the building? Insulate or sound proof the train tunnels? I live in a 3rd floor apartment of a building that shakes and vibrates each time a subway passes on one of 4 subway lines running just outside it. Fortunately, the bedrooms are at the back, so it's tolerable. But for thousands (and thousands?) of low-income NY'ers like me, we put up with this because the rent is "affordable." What choice do we have?
26
There are subway tunnels under numerous streets in Brooklyn Heights, and homeowners deal with cracked foundations and walls, and the subterranean sounds have been going on for many decades. The MTA is a state agency, and complaints to it are likely useless, even if you can find someone to complain to.
Far better to override it with a sound machine, ear plugs, or just get used to it. When there was major construction going on across the street, eventually I learned to sleep right through the sound of dumpsters being swapped out at 4am.
Far better to override it with a sound machine, ear plugs, or just get used to it. When there was major construction going on across the street, eventually I learned to sleep right through the sound of dumpsters being swapped out at 4am.
4
Hah. I grew up less than one block away from the L in the Bronx, hearing trains go by every few minutes. I became addicted to the train sounds which lulled me to sleep. When I went to summer camp in Connecticut, what kept me awake was the sound of crickets and bull frogs. It's amazing the things we grow up thinking are normal or soothing.
I do feel sorry for those unaddicted to train noises. My kids freaked out when they heard the same trains at night when we visited my parents, still living in the same tenement.
I do feel sorry for those unaddicted to train noises. My kids freaked out when they heard the same trains at night when we visited my parents, still living in the same tenement.
11
My very first memory of NYC when I moved here at the age of 10 in 1956 was the noise and sparks from the elevated trains going back and forth a block away on River Avenue in the Bronx. The noise kept me up, but eventually, it became part of the background dull roar of the city.
Visiting my brother, the sound of the crickets outside at night is, I think, louder.
Visiting my brother, the sound of the crickets outside at night is, I think, louder.
1
For the folks with the subway noise problem - if you decide you would prefer to leave the apartment, always talk to your landlord about letting you out of the lease first before threatening a lawsuit. I needed to break a lease previously and when I spoke to the landlord he was fine with it, as long as I left during the summer when it is easier to rent out and gave him plenty of notice.
10
Regarding smoke coming from the school, call the Fire Dpet. It's probably a code violation and the Fire Dept at least in the old days of the 1970's-1990's will come, check things out and if found that their furnace is indeed emitting black smoke will order it shut down.
9
Approach the school Principal and Facilities Manager to let them know that the chimney is spewing black smoke. She them a video. The Facilities Manager knows for sure what his responsibilities are (it is illegal) and will probably take care of it. Having a letter signed by several neighbors about the black smoke issue will certainly hold weight and a video to prove your point even better. Call 311 and they will take your complaint if you do not have success. There is also a way to make a 311 complaint online. Also you can make the complaint anonymously if you feel the need to do that. It took us a few months of leaving notes for the Super of a neighboring building and a few 311 calls to resolve the issue when we faced something similar to what you are. What you have in your environment is known to have caused an elevated level of asthma cases in neighborhoods exposed to such smoke.
1
Subway vibrations travel through the ground to the building structure and possibly to your bed. An easy and inexpensive remedy might to isolate the bed legs from from the floor with rubber pads. This will not help with airborne noise, but may be worth a try.
9
All of these nuisance problems when a person is paying for some of the most expensive real estate in the world.
6
My impression was that a break-lease penalty of two months rent is standard for getting out of an unwanted lease. Maybe I'm wrong--can a better informed reader correct me?
3
Sounds to me like UES's rental neighbors have become a de facto B&B, compliments of Airbnb.
9
If the noise bothers you, whether or not the noise bothers your friends, make the subway noise complaint to your landlord and request a moveout asap to show you mean it. There is no time to spare. Your landlord may let you out of the lease without a legal fight, that is your best chance.
4
Having people over for dinner is probably not the best way to gauge whether the subway noise would bother the average tenant. Staying there overnight, going to bed at 10 or 11 would be better.
If the irritation comes more from noise than from perceptible vibrations, and the tenants decide to stay, high-quality active-noise-cancelling earbuds might be the answer. LG makes an inexpensive ($50-100, depending on color) wireless bluetooth pair (called the Tone, I think) that I use to block early-morning traffic noise and other highly annoying sounds, like ear-piercing leaf blower noise.
If the irritation comes more from noise than from perceptible vibrations, and the tenants decide to stay, high-quality active-noise-cancelling earbuds might be the answer. LG makes an inexpensive ($50-100, depending on color) wireless bluetooth pair (called the Tone, I think) that I use to block early-morning traffic noise and other highly annoying sounds, like ear-piercing leaf blower noise.
14
There are also some Apps that measure decibels, should the aggrieved tenant wish to document the sound level as the trains pass below. Might not be good enough to stand up in court, but would certainly demonstrate to the landlord that the noise level rises when trains roll.
3
Are they guests or could they be airbnb people?
69
First thing I thought of too - based on my experience in my own building, I'll bet they're airbnb people. Since the condo's bylaw's may not prohibit that, and there's probably little to no legal recourse, the owners need to put pressure on the managing agent to rein in this problem.
I would think that since the condo owners pay for the amenities - and probably decided to buy the condo at least in part for those amenities - they're entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the pool and other amenities, as much as they're entitled to peaceful enjoyment of their residence.
I would think that since the condo owners pay for the amenities - and probably decided to buy the condo at least in part for those amenities - they're entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the pool and other amenities, as much as they're entitled to peaceful enjoyment of their residence.
16
I also was wondering if these are AirBnB people.
5
My thought too. And most likely, the airbnb listings for these apartments include photos of amenities like the pool that guests can enjoy when they book.
1