Most parents hope their children grow up to have a healthy relationship with their bodies and their sexuality, but few are willing to invest in open, ongoing conversations about sexuality. As Orenstein point out, the reality is that kids whose parents talk to them openly about sexuality and "intimate justice" make healthier sexual choices. As a high school and college speaker, young people ask me a lot of questions about porn and pleasure because they are concerned about their own skewed expectations about how bodies appear and respond. When parents don't take on sexuality education, kids turn to or stumble into the videos and images online to answer their questions. A short time ago, the average age a boy in the US viewed porn was 11; recent reports say it is closer to 9. The Dutch have all the statistics we hope for, yet we can't seem to convince parents to take on their role as sexuality educator at the recommended age (between 5-7) as they Dutch do. The normalized hookup culture in both high school and college perpetuates the idea of girls and women need to please their partners. There is a whole lot of pressure on girls to stay socially relevant on social media, get a lot of "likes," and be considered "hot." Sexual pleasure for girls and women won't be much of a consideration for girls and women until we address it. - Cindy Pierce, author of Sexploitation: Helping Kids Develop Healthy Sexuality in a Porn-Driven World (Bibliomotion, Inc.)
23
Porn is like fast food. Whereas mutually satisfying sex is like slow food.
Most men would rather eat fast food unfortunately. They haven't developed their sexual palates or recognize the quality of a better prepared feast.
The fast food is usually disgusting, empty calories that leaves one unfulfilled.
Slow food is savoring each flavor in all its intricate, delightful details. Tasty.
I forget who which famous male actor said it, ''Why go out for a hamburger when you can have steak at home?'', in reference to affairs or cheating on his wife.
We can teach our children that sex can be a delicious, fulfilling experience or one that involves in and out, drive thru 99 cent rubbish in a parking lot.
Most men would rather eat fast food unfortunately. They haven't developed their sexual palates or recognize the quality of a better prepared feast.
The fast food is usually disgusting, empty calories that leaves one unfulfilled.
Slow food is savoring each flavor in all its intricate, delightful details. Tasty.
I forget who which famous male actor said it, ''Why go out for a hamburger when you can have steak at home?'', in reference to affairs or cheating on his wife.
We can teach our children that sex can be a delicious, fulfilling experience or one that involves in and out, drive thru 99 cent rubbish in a parking lot.
23
The author could have shared at least some essential knowledge young women and men require while complaining about the lack of it. As well as provide some direction regarding how to talk with one's children.
The facts are that few parents of either sex can handle revealing themselves as sexual creatures. So much so that they actually deny this side of their personality. Leaving their children to sink or swim. This is not the fault of anyone or anything other than the parents mental health issues and cowardice. And so it go generation after generation.
So, obviously the parents are the problem, not porn. Where is the engagement, not at home, not at school? Perhaps the onslaught of porn will drive parents to finally act responsibly.
Probably the most effective least awkward approach is sex ed in the schools.
There are people who can do this and if parent had the courage of their convictions they would demand it.
I'd venture to suggest that young boys who tease young girls about blowjobs come from families with serious problems on several fronts.
My parents were as chicken as most though they did suggest and provide good literature that covered the territory to some extent.
Parents who are honest with their children raise healthier children, stop hiding.
The facts are that few parents of either sex can handle revealing themselves as sexual creatures. So much so that they actually deny this side of their personality. Leaving their children to sink or swim. This is not the fault of anyone or anything other than the parents mental health issues and cowardice. And so it go generation after generation.
So, obviously the parents are the problem, not porn. Where is the engagement, not at home, not at school? Perhaps the onslaught of porn will drive parents to finally act responsibly.
Probably the most effective least awkward approach is sex ed in the schools.
There are people who can do this and if parent had the courage of their convictions they would demand it.
I'd venture to suggest that young boys who tease young girls about blowjobs come from families with serious problems on several fronts.
My parents were as chicken as most though they did suggest and provide good literature that covered the territory to some extent.
Parents who are honest with their children raise healthier children, stop hiding.
14
It is upsetting that 23 states have taken away Sex Education (that is real sex education) rather than "abstinence" and call it sex education.
As a nurse who has worked in school settings, ER's, and other venues of healthcare, teaching abstinence is a great disservice, besides being dishonest. Well, actually, it's not even teaching. We should be able to agree on that if we care about youth at all. Not the teachers' fault, though, before those that condemn teachers get going here - sex education abstinence is Law, legislation passed, as it has been in Wisconsin, by Republican legislators. The same ones who don't want Planned Parenthood, don't want food stamps, who restrict or try to restrict healthcare for all - you get the idea.
Let's just say the Republican Party wants women to just go back to being Stepford Wives. Wind us up and take what you want. Isn't that really more like it, as the article clearly shows?
As a nurse who has worked in school settings, ER's, and other venues of healthcare, teaching abstinence is a great disservice, besides being dishonest. Well, actually, it's not even teaching. We should be able to agree on that if we care about youth at all. Not the teachers' fault, though, before those that condemn teachers get going here - sex education abstinence is Law, legislation passed, as it has been in Wisconsin, by Republican legislators. The same ones who don't want Planned Parenthood, don't want food stamps, who restrict or try to restrict healthcare for all - you get the idea.
Let's just say the Republican Party wants women to just go back to being Stepford Wives. Wind us up and take what you want. Isn't that really more like it, as the article clearly shows?
32
This entire article is so horrifying I don't even have the words.
Also when you say "Men are more likely to measure satisfaction by their own orgasm." do you mean young men, college men, which men? This has been the opposite of my own experience, and I am not an inexperienced woman. I am not speaking about one man, or two men, or three men...okay I'll stop there. I speak of men.
That has been the opposite of my own experience with men. I have experienced men to be more excited by my sexual pleasure than their own.
Also when you say "Men are more likely to measure satisfaction by their own orgasm." do you mean young men, college men, which men? This has been the opposite of my own experience, and I am not an inexperienced woman. I am not speaking about one man, or two men, or three men...okay I'll stop there. I speak of men.
That has been the opposite of my own experience with men. I have experienced men to be more excited by my sexual pleasure than their own.
25
I'm a little confused by the top two paragraphs.
What did she seriously need to know, that porn told her, that she couldn't get from (a) her school sex ed class, abstinence though it was, or (b) her parents, who though "clearly" uncomfortable, didn't cut her off from information, and that she couldn't figure out for herself? As the song says, "doin' what comes naturally"? Isn't that part of the fun? It was for me.
If it's how she should be treated respectfully and her "no" should stick, would porn tell her that? I can see how it might tell her what kinds of acts her boyfriends ought to expect from her. Not sure that's in her best interest.
What did she seriously need to know, that porn told her, that she couldn't get from (a) her school sex ed class, abstinence though it was, or (b) her parents, who though "clearly" uncomfortable, didn't cut her off from information, and that she couldn't figure out for herself? As the song says, "doin' what comes naturally"? Isn't that part of the fun? It was for me.
If it's how she should be treated respectfully and her "no" should stick, would porn tell her that? I can see how it might tell her what kinds of acts her boyfriends ought to expect from her. Not sure that's in her best interest.
5
Porn is one result of a failed liberal constitutional interpretation of the First Amendment.
Current social drifts expand compulsory sex education to a culturally unsanctioned body of pseudo knowledge. What is foisted on students is a liberal social agenda based on whims about inclusiveness and population control.
As a solution neither elements in Orenstein's question can ever compete with love experienced as result of a natural family model.
Current social drifts expand compulsory sex education to a culturally unsanctioned body of pseudo knowledge. What is foisted on students is a liberal social agenda based on whims about inclusiveness and population control.
As a solution neither elements in Orenstein's question can ever compete with love experienced as result of a natural family model.
7
As parents we want to assume the best thing to do is talk to our kids early, intelligently, and maturely. Unfortunately, even remembering my time as a teen, I didn't want to talk to my parents about that stuff. They tried, it was awkward, they even tried going into details, and it was more awkward. A lot is learned from friends and general culture, but most of it comes down to when I or any youth is ready to get into that. Some are ready sooner, others are not.
We need solid education about birth control methods and have it available without judgement and questioning to those that need it. But less intrusive and controlling methods about when youth should or should not have sex. They'll decide that without us.
Finally, a lot can be said about treating the opposite gender with respect. This applies to boys and girls in different ways. Kids treat others as they do because parents treat them that way. They observe a lot. Kids need role models in their life more than they need awkward lectures about what sex is.
We need solid education about birth control methods and have it available without judgement and questioning to those that need it. But less intrusive and controlling methods about when youth should or should not have sex. They'll decide that without us.
Finally, a lot can be said about treating the opposite gender with respect. This applies to boys and girls in different ways. Kids treat others as they do because parents treat them that way. They observe a lot. Kids need role models in their life more than they need awkward lectures about what sex is.
10
This reminds me of my (sex education) experience growing up with 7 brothers in the 1950's. It was obvious that they had more "down there" than I did. To console me about my missing genitalia, one of them informed me that I might not have visible genitalia, but I had a hole (vagina) for the penis. Whoopee! Since, I was always fighting with a hoard of boys for equality, being informed that I was merely the "empty vessel" waiting to be filled by their appendage, quickly took the wind from my sails. I could work to run faster, to do better in school, but this penis/vagina thing, this was irrefutable destiny. In one fell swoop, I absorbed the prevailing cultural belief in the supremacy of men and the dependency of women.
Forty years later, a second grade teacher told me that her district-mandated curriculum taught penis and vagina as the equivalent and primary sex organs of male and female. "Boys have a penis girls have a vagina." (The seven-year-olds of the 90's are the misinformed young adults of today.) And, yes, it's still the same curriculum today. Ignoring the pleasure centers in the female that lead to orgasm (clitoris and the g-spot) allows adults, parents, teachers, physicians, to inform girls and boys about their bodies without discussing pleasure and orgasm. More importantly, as Orenstein so aptly concludes, our fear of disclosing the truth about sexual pleasure, slams the door on the more important discussion of sexual communication in personal relationships.
Forty years later, a second grade teacher told me that her district-mandated curriculum taught penis and vagina as the equivalent and primary sex organs of male and female. "Boys have a penis girls have a vagina." (The seven-year-olds of the 90's are the misinformed young adults of today.) And, yes, it's still the same curriculum today. Ignoring the pleasure centers in the female that lead to orgasm (clitoris and the g-spot) allows adults, parents, teachers, physicians, to inform girls and boys about their bodies without discussing pleasure and orgasm. More importantly, as Orenstein so aptly concludes, our fear of disclosing the truth about sexual pleasure, slams the door on the more important discussion of sexual communication in personal relationships.
20
"Consider a 2010 study...two similar colleges...mostly white, middle class...apples to apples.."??
3-20-16@12:52 pm
3-20-16@12:52 pm
6
This necessary article gives new context to "Dutch Treat," wherein young girls and boys must learn early that they are fully entitled to know what they want and to communicate that knowledge in their relationships, sexual or otherwise.
If parents don't facilitate such growth, they are setting their children up to be passive about their own development. Inevitable harm and distortion will follow. Parental neglect should never be acceptable.
If parents don't facilitate such growth, they are setting their children up to be passive about their own development. Inevitable harm and distortion will follow. Parental neglect should never be acceptable.
5
Does this piece concern sex ed for straight teens only? If so, what about parents of LGBT teens?
3-20-16@1:02 pm
3-20-16@1:02 pm
2
Let's get practical;
Consider giving your teen daughter a copy of the book "The Guide to Getting It On" the summer before college. Consider gifting her with a vibrator as well. I did, and my daughter really appreciated it, although she still teases me today about what "a weirdo of a mom" I am.
For my son, I had my husband give both the book above, the book "Pornified" (to give him perspective on the unreality of porn sex) and a copy of the irreplaceable "She Comes First." Every young male should study "She Comes First." (And maybe a few older ones as well.) There is a companion volume for females called "He Comes Next," although, if memory serves, achieving orgasm is not a big challenge for most young males.
I also started leaving jars full of condoms in every bathroom in the house by the time the oldest was entering her teens. I told her, "This is not about encouraging you, it's about having you prepared when the time comes. Never leave your future up to chance."
Consider giving your teen daughter a copy of the book "The Guide to Getting It On" the summer before college. Consider gifting her with a vibrator as well. I did, and my daughter really appreciated it, although she still teases me today about what "a weirdo of a mom" I am.
For my son, I had my husband give both the book above, the book "Pornified" (to give him perspective on the unreality of porn sex) and a copy of the irreplaceable "She Comes First." Every young male should study "She Comes First." (And maybe a few older ones as well.) There is a companion volume for females called "He Comes Next," although, if memory serves, achieving orgasm is not a big challenge for most young males.
I also started leaving jars full of condoms in every bathroom in the house by the time the oldest was entering her teens. I told her, "This is not about encouraging you, it's about having you prepared when the time comes. Never leave your future up to chance."
121
Assume that your teenaged children have watched pornography, and that it has informed them about the mechanics. Then talk with them about what's real and what isn't real in pornography.
Have these conversations with your child early and often in high school, well before they go to college, where they will encounter the whole informed consent bureaucracy, the (unfortunate) central point of which is that women are victims.
Teach them to be strong, to know for themselves the difference between right and wrong, to have empathy and sometimes to seek or accept emotional intimacy, to understand consequences, and then step back and let them make their own choices.
Have these conversations with your child early and often in high school, well before they go to college, where they will encounter the whole informed consent bureaucracy, the (unfortunate) central point of which is that women are victims.
Teach them to be strong, to know for themselves the difference between right and wrong, to have empathy and sometimes to seek or accept emotional intimacy, to understand consequences, and then step back and let them make their own choices.
11
I've never seen any indication that any serious studies have been done about how people in a country like France learn about sexuality. I was in my late twenties when I left a sexless marriage behind (and two children) and moved overseas. Suddenly I discovered what love was and what "making love" was. America's puritanism slipped away. After a couple of years I realized that if I had known before what I learned in Europe I could have taught my wife and we'd have never divorced. If she had been raised as women in France are raised she would have embraced rather than hated sexual relations.
I never learned how they got that way, by then it was too late for me to find out. It seemed to start very young. Children went to beaches where some women wore no tops, but no one gawked. Bodies were natural. Nude beaches were not uncommon. Sex as conversation could be serious or joking, but the idea that sex was "dirty" never crossed a mind.
Women used their femininity to advance up the business ladder just as men used their masculinity. Women didn't try to become men. Homosexuality was a normal practice of a very small percentage of the public, not the offensive, well financed politico/media steamroller I found when I came back to America.
I wish someone sensitive to the subject would try to unravel how a less fractured society does it so that our society could move from sex to love.
I never learned how they got that way, by then it was too late for me to find out. It seemed to start very young. Children went to beaches where some women wore no tops, but no one gawked. Bodies were natural. Nude beaches were not uncommon. Sex as conversation could be serious or joking, but the idea that sex was "dirty" never crossed a mind.
Women used their femininity to advance up the business ladder just as men used their masculinity. Women didn't try to become men. Homosexuality was a normal practice of a very small percentage of the public, not the offensive, well financed politico/media steamroller I found when I came back to America.
I wish someone sensitive to the subject would try to unravel how a less fractured society does it so that our society could move from sex to love.
54
Not the schools' job. Parents' job. Failing that, let the poor little dears grow up and figure it out on their own through reading and study AFTER they're adults. These articles and the entire culture at college is rigged to get these girls into sex as quickly as possible. Nothing wrong with a girl reaching adulthood first. They're children until they're 25 anymore anyway, they really don't have a right to risking pregnancy and screwing up a young life ahead of adulthood.
One father's opinion. Enforced and successful.
One father's opinion. Enforced and successful.
21
You can't learn much about STD's from a porn but it's out there. From Aides to Zika proof is available that unwanted pregnancy isn't the only consequence of sex. Yes Aides and Zika spead thru other means but both came about unexpectedly. Can they become something worse?
3
When Did Porn Become Sex Ed?
When you abdicated your responsibilities as a parent and a community.
Apparently a lot of baby boomers are as hung up as their parents were. But to talk about a generation monolithically is inaccurate. Thankfully there are many young people who treat one another respectfully and have healthy respectful relationships.
As for porn, it and or erotic art are not any more monolithic than a generation's attitudes. Making the distinction is probably important when talking to children because if it is not made they will know you are being dishonest. Another thing disturbing in this conversation again concerns how male and female are viewed monolithically like Ken and Barbie. In fact the sexes both exist on a continuum of characteristics. As convenient as it is to view and speak about Jack and Jill reality is multi faceted. While writing this it occurs to me that the absence of frank and honest communication about sex and the repression and or hiding of the parents sexual identity may be the genesis of alienation.
Evangelical Republicans have for the last couple of decades used school boards as a step up in local politics and on the way have seriously messed up our schools. Perhaps it is time to get involved.Take responsibility for your community, stop being a victim blaming your kids attitudes on porn while the rest of our media is loaded with soft core from Carl's Junior to preteen clothing marketing.
When you abdicated your responsibilities as a parent and a community.
Apparently a lot of baby boomers are as hung up as their parents were. But to talk about a generation monolithically is inaccurate. Thankfully there are many young people who treat one another respectfully and have healthy respectful relationships.
As for porn, it and or erotic art are not any more monolithic than a generation's attitudes. Making the distinction is probably important when talking to children because if it is not made they will know you are being dishonest. Another thing disturbing in this conversation again concerns how male and female are viewed monolithically like Ken and Barbie. In fact the sexes both exist on a continuum of characteristics. As convenient as it is to view and speak about Jack and Jill reality is multi faceted. While writing this it occurs to me that the absence of frank and honest communication about sex and the repression and or hiding of the parents sexual identity may be the genesis of alienation.
Evangelical Republicans have for the last couple of decades used school boards as a step up in local politics and on the way have seriously messed up our schools. Perhaps it is time to get involved.Take responsibility for your community, stop being a victim blaming your kids attitudes on porn while the rest of our media is loaded with soft core from Carl's Junior to preteen clothing marketing.
6
What ever happened to "The Joy of Sex"? Isn't anyone having any fun anymore? A woman's body, and her capacity for pleasure, are one of nature's greatest wonders. Why are we as a society determined to keep women ignorant? Seems to me that lesbian and sex-positive feminists are the only ones trying their best to educate women - one more reason to put them beyond the pale I guess. And we as a society have the nerve to look down on societies that practice female genital mutilation!
11
Excellent article - thanks for giving voice to the pleasure that dare not speak its name. More power to the idea that both sexes should be educated about sexual pleasure (not just reproduction) and the value of reciprocation in sexual relationships. Reciprocation implies attendance to the idea of equality and this is surely a good thing. This is not to say that in every sexual encounter each party should or must experience equal pleasure - but it would be nice wouldn't it?
8
The phenomenon of the greatest technological contribution to learning in human history being used primarily, by frequent public acknowledgement, as a device for transmitting the most intense form of human degradation is one which would have likely shocked even our culture's most dystopian writers, men like Huxley and Orwell. Free and accessible pornography has moved the iconic figure in a slouch-brimmed hat poring through a few magazines in a dark corner of a candy store, long a figure of embarrassment and derision, to every desktop computer in the world in every nation that believes in free speech--and many that don't. To even pretend to wonder whether the impact of this will be anything less than corrosive of relations between men and women, and particularly of how men view women, is absurd. The impact of millions "gratifying" themselves before television screens of varying sizes, (Huxley's Soma and push-button orgasms and Orwell's ubiquitous television sets), is impossible to document, but it would be surprising to find upon investigation that the by-product of this can be restricted to human sexuality. Taking up probably billions of hours of the human race's time, it is the ultimate weapon of mass distraction, redefining how humans see themselves and one another in ways too numerous and complex for us to understand. Nor can we overlook the fact that pornography is a business, with most free access being in fact being advertising for even more lurid entertainments.
13
THIS:
"Even the most comprehensive classes generally stick with a woman’s internal parts: uteruses, fallopian tubes, ovaries. Those classic diagrams of a woman’s reproductive system, the ones shaped like the head of a steer, blur into a gray Y between the legs, as if the vulva and the labia, let alone the clitoris, don’t exist. And whereas males’ puberty is often characterized in terms of erections, ejaculation and the emergence of a near-unstoppable sex drive, females’ is defined by periods. And the possibility of unwanted pregnancy. When do we explain the miraculous nuances of their anatomy? When do we address exploration, self-knowledge?"
Brought me back to the 7th and 8th grade, when my girlfriends and I discussed "What are the 'goopies'? What are the 'tinglieys'" as no one had ever explained what sexual arousal caused in our bodies. Women's sexual desire was never touched on (so to speak). Sorry to hear that remains the case, and the only thing girls are taught to be concerned with are how much sexual exploration will only lead to difficulty...menstruation and early pregnancy. Why don't they recommend vibrators? Why don't they pass out lube for both boys' and girls' sex ed classes? An awful lot of women's loss of virginity would be far less painful and sometimes traumatic.
"Even the most comprehensive classes generally stick with a woman’s internal parts: uteruses, fallopian tubes, ovaries. Those classic diagrams of a woman’s reproductive system, the ones shaped like the head of a steer, blur into a gray Y between the legs, as if the vulva and the labia, let alone the clitoris, don’t exist. And whereas males’ puberty is often characterized in terms of erections, ejaculation and the emergence of a near-unstoppable sex drive, females’ is defined by periods. And the possibility of unwanted pregnancy. When do we explain the miraculous nuances of their anatomy? When do we address exploration, self-knowledge?"
Brought me back to the 7th and 8th grade, when my girlfriends and I discussed "What are the 'goopies'? What are the 'tinglieys'" as no one had ever explained what sexual arousal caused in our bodies. Women's sexual desire was never touched on (so to speak). Sorry to hear that remains the case, and the only thing girls are taught to be concerned with are how much sexual exploration will only lead to difficulty...menstruation and early pregnancy. Why don't they recommend vibrators? Why don't they pass out lube for both boys' and girls' sex ed classes? An awful lot of women's loss of virginity would be far less painful and sometimes traumatic.
17
Peggy Orenstein couches an awful lot of sex negativism under the guise of being sex positive. Porn is the problem? Ms. Orenstein might not like porn images, but a wide array of women do, including those who curate their own porn Tumblr blogs, which she might like to view to gain a different perspective on female sexuality. And yes, if your daughter has access to the Internet, odds are good she's being untruthful about what she's sought out online.
As for her sources, I'd really like to meet the college senior who can surf the Internet to find free porn, but cannot use Google to locate any other sources to learn about sex, and therefore relies on porn as a guide. And what product of a liberal home attends a college doesn't have a peer-led sex education group on campus? My college, and every one attended by friends had one before any of today's college students were born.
Lastly, although attitudes around anal sex appear to be shifting dramatically, Ms. Orenstein still peddles the notion that this sex practice is something women are being coerced into doing rather than something certain women enjoy.
As for her sources, I'd really like to meet the college senior who can surf the Internet to find free porn, but cannot use Google to locate any other sources to learn about sex, and therefore relies on porn as a guide. And what product of a liberal home attends a college doesn't have a peer-led sex education group on campus? My college, and every one attended by friends had one before any of today's college students were born.
Lastly, although attitudes around anal sex appear to be shifting dramatically, Ms. Orenstein still peddles the notion that this sex practice is something women are being coerced into doing rather than something certain women enjoy.
14
Talk about being pleasantly surprised by an article in this publication about sex education and young persons sexual activity. Half-way through it seemed as though it was yet another "let's divide America into prudes and us liberated types" and blame all the problems on the former. But no, the author wasn't quite doing that, or only in part.
The key paragraphs dealt with the differences between the Dutch attitudes and conduct and young Americans. The Dutch value highly "caring, respectful relationships". They talk of love and equality of enjoyment. In short, some context and emotional attachment. We Americans have divorced sexual relations from any relationships, at least among the young. It is simply about passing instant gratification, usually male, it must be said. Moreover, heaven forbid if you dare to suggest love or equality of emotional commitment. It's not "liberated" some will shout. But such "liberation" usually comes at the expense of young women's emotional integrity.
The key paragraphs dealt with the differences between the Dutch attitudes and conduct and young Americans. The Dutch value highly "caring, respectful relationships". They talk of love and equality of enjoyment. In short, some context and emotional attachment. We Americans have divorced sexual relations from any relationships, at least among the young. It is simply about passing instant gratification, usually male, it must be said. Moreover, heaven forbid if you dare to suggest love or equality of emotional commitment. It's not "liberated" some will shout. But such "liberation" usually comes at the expense of young women's emotional integrity.
8
This sickens and saddens me indescribably. The real, truly impenetrable core of any pornography is self-denial barely disguised as dominance if not boredom. That submission can be mistaken as willful expression, or that willful and wanton mean the same thing, is a dead end. Still, as I punch the letters that comprise these words and convey these beliefs, I sense the original concerns I had with sorting things out about intimacy for others and with others even of my own age. In other words, they can seem oppressive. How to share an intuition that tells me not to walk but to run away and still leaves all doors and windows open or that will possibly take me past that dead end again and again? Despite overt changes over generations in how we interact, whether socially and sexually, I will not deny that how I regard and treat human nature, or Nature, will come back to me.
1
There are moments when I am viscerally relieved to not have children. The period immediately following my reading of this piece is one of them.
16
Why do you suppose there are no how-to-do-it sex classes in "sex education" classes? Why do adults refuse to discuss or even acknowledge that sexual intercourse and all of its associated activities actually exist and are carried out. Frequently. I think the female college senior in this report found a good solution: porn. At least the participants in porn movies can demonstrate the real world......
2
1994: President Clinton fired Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders for suggesting that masturbation should perhaps be taught in schools.
14
What a stupid headline! Porn has ALWAYS been sex ed....
2
my wife and I started talking openly about the meaning of sex with our children when they were in the single digits. As a result we were able to continue to conversation in their teens and early adult years without embarrassment. We certainly discussed the mechanics of sexual practice but its meaning was much more important to us and proved to be the reason that they all behaved wisely in this area.
And this is what is missing in the Western conversation about sex. Pornography is a horrific teacher because it portrays this beautiful and glorious part of life as a meaningless pursuit of dopamine. Sex is about so much more than the short term pleasure of the organism. It holds the potential of developing a quality of relationship that is soul satisfyingly rich. Not only can it produce children but it can build a level of intimacy that keeps the parents together for a life time.
Meaningless sex, holds the potential to produce heartbreaking consequences, from the tragedy of rape to the ironic result of the diminished experience of real pleasure with increased random sexual encounters.
If sex is meaningless in the same way that many think all life is ultimately meaningless than we are fighting a losing battle to recover sexual wisdom in our culture. If, as I believe, it does have a meaning and purpose, than discovering those things might be the key to rich lives that we ultimately want for our children (lives free from abuse, addiction, and empty encounters that diminish joy).
And this is what is missing in the Western conversation about sex. Pornography is a horrific teacher because it portrays this beautiful and glorious part of life as a meaningless pursuit of dopamine. Sex is about so much more than the short term pleasure of the organism. It holds the potential of developing a quality of relationship that is soul satisfyingly rich. Not only can it produce children but it can build a level of intimacy that keeps the parents together for a life time.
Meaningless sex, holds the potential to produce heartbreaking consequences, from the tragedy of rape to the ironic result of the diminished experience of real pleasure with increased random sexual encounters.
If sex is meaningless in the same way that many think all life is ultimately meaningless than we are fighting a losing battle to recover sexual wisdom in our culture. If, as I believe, it does have a meaning and purpose, than discovering those things might be the key to rich lives that we ultimately want for our children (lives free from abuse, addiction, and empty encounters that diminish joy).
16
I'm well into my 60s. I remember health classes in my suburban public junior high and high school, and sex ed wasn't part of the curriculum.
I recall fondly my first sexual explorations. I didn't know what I was doing, and more often than not, my partners didn't know either. That was part of the fun.
But one thing I remember very clearly, and that was engaging in each experience with respect and concern for my partner's well being and satisfaction.
The fact is I was taught to treat every human being in every circumstance this way. You know, the Golden Rule and all that.
I read articles about the Millenial generation, hear about self-centered narcissists, helicopter parents making sure their little angels' self-esteem is stoked and protected at all costs. I hope they are exaggerations, and not representative of the majority of young men and women.
But in any event, it seems clear to me that by the time a person is old enough to demand a blow job, if he hasn't been taught how to act toward his fellow human beings in all respects with decency and compassion, it's probably too late.
I recall fondly my first sexual explorations. I didn't know what I was doing, and more often than not, my partners didn't know either. That was part of the fun.
But one thing I remember very clearly, and that was engaging in each experience with respect and concern for my partner's well being and satisfaction.
The fact is I was taught to treat every human being in every circumstance this way. You know, the Golden Rule and all that.
I read articles about the Millenial generation, hear about self-centered narcissists, helicopter parents making sure their little angels' self-esteem is stoked and protected at all costs. I hope they are exaggerations, and not representative of the majority of young men and women.
But in any event, it seems clear to me that by the time a person is old enough to demand a blow job, if he hasn't been taught how to act toward his fellow human beings in all respects with decency and compassion, it's probably too late.
14
Starkly put, with apologies to sensitive readers, there's online instruction for women on how to avoid the gag reflex when performing oral sex. The woman's body is an ATM, with several choices of service. What's missing is the account balance. Janis Ian's 1975 song 'At 17', included the following line... 'when payment due exceeds accounts received, at 17'. She wasn't focusing on sex -- or money -- but about life in general. Working to establish relationships does not bring rewards if you are mining a barren seam.
4
I'm mildly disturbed that sex is seen only as a source of pleasure for majority of people. I mean, they know it's a part of reproductive system right? I feel like people can become addicted to porn, which degrades sex and objectifies women. The pleasure that comes with sex is like a bonus or incentives for people to recreate. If young people associated sex as a source pleasure for yourself, why would they want to settle down and create families, when they are looking for constant sexual pleasure without responsibilities. People seem to be addicted to the pleasurable experience from sex and missing the whole point of it. It's so magical since it can lead to new life but people seem to consider sex as entertainment or competitive sport.
3
“The Journal of Sexual Medicine, researchers at Indiana University found only about a third of girls between 14 and 17 reported masturbating regularly and fewer than half have even tried once”
It’s just sex people. My dog can figure it out, as do all other living creatures; surprisingly, they don’t a government grant or a sex ‘expert’ to show them how to do it. Presumably, the human race has had little problem with figuring it all out since we first came down from the trees. The fact that we are still here would attest to that. I actually find it offensive that the NYT has been bleating and beating the bush about the need to withhold pain medication from patients who desperately need it for medical reasons, show more compassion for girls between the ages of 14 and 17 who do not masturbate enough than they do those is permanent and debilitating pain.
It’s just sex people. My dog can figure it out, as do all other living creatures; surprisingly, they don’t a government grant or a sex ‘expert’ to show them how to do it. Presumably, the human race has had little problem with figuring it all out since we first came down from the trees. The fact that we are still here would attest to that. I actually find it offensive that the NYT has been bleating and beating the bush about the need to withhold pain medication from patients who desperately need it for medical reasons, show more compassion for girls between the ages of 14 and 17 who do not masturbate enough than they do those is permanent and debilitating pain.
8
WAY back around 1987 I had a gym teacher who thought somewhat outside the box and, during our male only sex ed classes, he went into some fairly explicit detail about the female anatomy and how a male might interact with it. Needless to say, the class of 12-year-old boys blushed and giggled and elbowed each other, but I must say it was interesting to hear from this gym teacher the same thing we'd already figured out by perusing our brothers' and uncles' stashes of porno mags.
Meanwhile, what were the girls learning? To my knowledge, they didn't have access to porno mags like us boys, and I doubt the female gym teacher was so forthright. The result was that we boys approached the age of sexual experimentation armed with a veritable library of knowledge compared to our female counterparts. We, in effect, became the teachers.
No, I'm not saying it's a good thing. I'm saying it's been this way a long time and I think it's up to women to change the conversation with the girls. Trust me, you don't want the guys to do it.
Meanwhile, what were the girls learning? To my knowledge, they didn't have access to porno mags like us boys, and I doubt the female gym teacher was so forthright. The result was that we boys approached the age of sexual experimentation armed with a veritable library of knowledge compared to our female counterparts. We, in effect, became the teachers.
No, I'm not saying it's a good thing. I'm saying it's been this way a long time and I think it's up to women to change the conversation with the girls. Trust me, you don't want the guys to do it.
9
From the start, I thought this was going to be more of a piece on the detriment of pornography than on the lack of sex-ed given to young people. I was pleasantly surprised, though I continuously found the role pornography has played in appealing to men's sexual urges and whatever is "in" at the time. Overall, there has been a moral and social degradation in men's behavior in the past 30-40 years. This is evident in things such as the rise in school shootings, public brawls/stabbings, an epidemic of domestic abuse... all of these, of course amounts to one thing - violence. And women, of course, are always the victims. I can't help but wonder what happened 40 years ago that has caused this gradual escalation. One possilbe answer is the end of compulsory military service - (the expected outlet for these young feelings of wanting to be violent). One can see all of these tendencies played out in the pornography industry, as well as "competition" amongst young men which results in this appalling behavior toward women. So I agree, these conversations are absolutely necessary in today's world. But so is giving your children an outlet for their innate feelings. We're all so "scared" about physical sports these days... but to me, the evidence in this article is far scarier. Would you rather have a son who might get a broken arm or a daughter who might get pressured into anal sex? Sign me up for the former, please.
5
We live in a society that is run by old white men who make the laws and a Christian majority that believes sex is for reproduction only. And masturbation? Ha ! Where showing a nipple on broadcast tv can be a punishable crime and religious community leaders for decades were allowed to freely molest thousands of children .
We make sex an exploitive, objectifying sales technique . More porn is consumed in conservative states than liberal ones . California is considering legislation requiring actors in porn to use condoms ( again) .... making it de facto sex education.
Making sure my female partners enjoy multiple orgasms was and is a guiding principle in all of my sexual encounters .... It's kind of like what Antonin Scalia said about money and free speech, the more orgasms the better.
Interesting article but it doesn't go far enough and thanks for letting me rant.
We make sex an exploitive, objectifying sales technique . More porn is consumed in conservative states than liberal ones . California is considering legislation requiring actors in porn to use condoms ( again) .... making it de facto sex education.
Making sure my female partners enjoy multiple orgasms was and is a guiding principle in all of my sexual encounters .... It's kind of like what Antonin Scalia said about money and free speech, the more orgasms the better.
Interesting article but it doesn't go far enough and thanks for letting me rant.
11
As this article reflects, Michael Moore's latest movie shows that with respect to sex education, among many other things, the U.S. Is way behind other countries.
6
Porn is not sex ed, but neither is judging women for enjoying sexuality that we ourselves disapprove of. Either women are free to enjoy sex, or they are not.
6
The author fails to note that the most important sex organ in the human body is the brain. So before obsessing about the details of what young people do with their sex organs, it would have been useful for the author to assess how society currently approaches the teen brain.
And the current wisdom is that the teen brain is "deficient," a deficiency caused by physical differences in their brain -- i.e., there's too much "gray" matter and the "white" matter (myelin) hasn't fully coated the axons connecting the gray matter. To put it in the vivid way certain neuroscientists prefer, the teen brain needs to be "pruned" after which, the alleged "maturity gap" with the "adult" brain will disappear.
Now there are important consequences to this perspective viz the sex lives of teenagers. If the assumption is that there is this "deficiency," one in fact which is considered so significant that much of teenage sexual activity is actually criminalized, how can we expect teenagers to enter into their sexual lives with a healthy, open-mined, honest perspective about sex.
Whether teen brain differences cause a "deficiency" or prove a "maturity gap" (and respected experts like Dr. Robert Epstein argue that they do not), the affect of these powerful but un-discussed memes are bound to have an affect not only on teen's approach to teen sex but society's approach to teen sex.
And the current wisdom is that the teen brain is "deficient," a deficiency caused by physical differences in their brain -- i.e., there's too much "gray" matter and the "white" matter (myelin) hasn't fully coated the axons connecting the gray matter. To put it in the vivid way certain neuroscientists prefer, the teen brain needs to be "pruned" after which, the alleged "maturity gap" with the "adult" brain will disappear.
Now there are important consequences to this perspective viz the sex lives of teenagers. If the assumption is that there is this "deficiency," one in fact which is considered so significant that much of teenage sexual activity is actually criminalized, how can we expect teenagers to enter into their sexual lives with a healthy, open-mined, honest perspective about sex.
Whether teen brain differences cause a "deficiency" or prove a "maturity gap" (and respected experts like Dr. Robert Epstein argue that they do not), the affect of these powerful but un-discussed memes are bound to have an affect not only on teen's approach to teen sex but society's approach to teen sex.
1
It's not just porn but so much of advertising that says to women, "you are a sex object - you are an object."
Many years ago I had a patient, a young woman who, for reasons I won't go into, saw as a goal - related to relationships with men - "to be good in bed". In other words, to come up to the expectations of men. In bed! That basically, was the issue we worked on. How this had come about. How it had affected her. How to modify all the ramifications of that, which underlay a lot of her depression and anxiety.
I knew another very disturbed young woman, who as a young child, exposed to pornography, conceived the idea that she wanted to grow up to be a prostitute. (I am not kidding!)
These are extreme examples. But women are too often prey to the desires, the fantasies, the expectations of just about every society. For how to be "a good woman."
As my husband said to our teenage son, many years ago when he found a stash of pornographic magazines, "Suppose that was your mother! How would you like it if your mothe was photographed and in a magazine like that?"
I also recall our son being much younger. We were in Granada, Spain, after the death of Franco when social mores changed a great deal. And sex magazines were everywhere on kiosks. Our 7 year old asked his father: "Papa, why is there so much sex here?"
Children, adolescents, need information, guidance, appropriate to their ages and inquiries. They need parents willing to discuss not just sex but values.
Many years ago I had a patient, a young woman who, for reasons I won't go into, saw as a goal - related to relationships with men - "to be good in bed". In other words, to come up to the expectations of men. In bed! That basically, was the issue we worked on. How this had come about. How it had affected her. How to modify all the ramifications of that, which underlay a lot of her depression and anxiety.
I knew another very disturbed young woman, who as a young child, exposed to pornography, conceived the idea that she wanted to grow up to be a prostitute. (I am not kidding!)
These are extreme examples. But women are too often prey to the desires, the fantasies, the expectations of just about every society. For how to be "a good woman."
As my husband said to our teenage son, many years ago when he found a stash of pornographic magazines, "Suppose that was your mother! How would you like it if your mothe was photographed and in a magazine like that?"
I also recall our son being much younger. We were in Granada, Spain, after the death of Franco when social mores changed a great deal. And sex magazines were everywhere on kiosks. Our 7 year old asked his father: "Papa, why is there so much sex here?"
Children, adolescents, need information, guidance, appropriate to their ages and inquiries. They need parents willing to discuss not just sex but values.
6
Here is a my fundamental belief in regard to how earlier generations were raised in America: to deny developing young people basic knowledge of their bodies and their sexual functioning was an act of quiet social violence against good health and full development as caring human beings.
Now, to allow a nation's children to be awash in pornography is most likely even worse, X's 10.
If one wants to look at whether there is a "culture of rape" (I have my doubts) on college campuses, look to porn. In its depictions the women are always ready, always tuned up for whatever usual or strange practice meets the man's immediate fancy. There are no limits. What's more, abstracting the acts onto a video screen removes any sense that the two (or more) people care about each other. Everything is reduced to a the mechanical and very often concludes in an act that very few wives or female lovers would want.
Of course this is instructional material for the young. Everything people see is instructional if they pay attention and integrate it into their habits and being. The boundaries between high and low education do not exist in the mind.
Overall, the lack of commentary and careful consideration of the "pornofication of America" since the Internet arrived is rather shocking. It is one of the biggest social changes in at least the last 100 yrs., but our hesitancy in considering such matters seems higher than our willingness to confront it. We have left children on their own, unguided.
Now, to allow a nation's children to be awash in pornography is most likely even worse, X's 10.
If one wants to look at whether there is a "culture of rape" (I have my doubts) on college campuses, look to porn. In its depictions the women are always ready, always tuned up for whatever usual or strange practice meets the man's immediate fancy. There are no limits. What's more, abstracting the acts onto a video screen removes any sense that the two (or more) people care about each other. Everything is reduced to a the mechanical and very often concludes in an act that very few wives or female lovers would want.
Of course this is instructional material for the young. Everything people see is instructional if they pay attention and integrate it into their habits and being. The boundaries between high and low education do not exist in the mind.
Overall, the lack of commentary and careful consideration of the "pornofication of America" since the Internet arrived is rather shocking. It is one of the biggest social changes in at least the last 100 yrs., but our hesitancy in considering such matters seems higher than our willingness to confront it. We have left children on their own, unguided.
10
We live live in a society where peeing in a public place is considered and prosecuted as an "indecent" behavior. I am not saying it should be embraced. My point is we label things based on unnecessary moral biases, and it is ridiculous when it comes to physiological needs.
We left all to porn when someone decided sex was sinful, and Tabu. But heterosexual porn is centered on male satisfaction, and generally violent to girls. Porn is no more than a visual aid.
If you feel you cannot explain sex to your kids, google "books on sexuality". Remember no preference is universal and that you should not try to impose one on them.
I figure the best you can do is help them learn that sex should be a consensual and guilt-free activity. Everyone should be entitled to explore their own sexuality and decide what goes and what does not.
We left all to porn when someone decided sex was sinful, and Tabu. But heterosexual porn is centered on male satisfaction, and generally violent to girls. Porn is no more than a visual aid.
If you feel you cannot explain sex to your kids, google "books on sexuality". Remember no preference is universal and that you should not try to impose one on them.
I figure the best you can do is help them learn that sex should be a consensual and guilt-free activity. Everyone should be entitled to explore their own sexuality and decide what goes and what does not.
1
Just another example of where ignorant fact denying conservative policy has failed our nation.
What else is new?
What else is new?
7
When did porn become sex ed? i'd suppose since the Lascaux Caves.
7
Thank you for bringing this subject up. Our kids sexual lives are being ruined by porn.
Porn is consumed for many years before "in real life" sexual play/activity ever comes up. Before first love, before wet dreams-- there is porn. Porn today is full of misogyny and physical violence: slapping, choking, etc. Very kinky, dark stuff can be easily accessed online. These extreme images, tied for a decade to a boy's physical pleasure/ erection/ejaculation, build deep neural pathways.
Of course, Porn disinforms. Porn portrays position 'X' as pleasurable, just because position X is camera-friendly. Porn says when women resist, say no, and cry, slap them, yank their pants off, and keep going. Surely the rise of the campus rape culture is porn-related.
It's impossible to watch thousands of hours of porn without some takeaway messages about women as objects. Even the girls apparently take this message away, if it's all about his pleasure now (again!).
I am comfortable talking about sex/porn and have discussed these issues with my kids. One niece (25, who had never had an orgasm) told me my anti-porn stance was, essentially, unliberated/backwards. Meanwhile, of the two of us, I was the one having pleasurable sex.
Millenial women: when you give up your own orgasm/pleasure as your litmus test for sexual pleasure, you have regressed to the level of backwardness and sexual inequality of your grandmother's era! This is NOT liberated sex!
Porn is consumed for many years before "in real life" sexual play/activity ever comes up. Before first love, before wet dreams-- there is porn. Porn today is full of misogyny and physical violence: slapping, choking, etc. Very kinky, dark stuff can be easily accessed online. These extreme images, tied for a decade to a boy's physical pleasure/ erection/ejaculation, build deep neural pathways.
Of course, Porn disinforms. Porn portrays position 'X' as pleasurable, just because position X is camera-friendly. Porn says when women resist, say no, and cry, slap them, yank their pants off, and keep going. Surely the rise of the campus rape culture is porn-related.
It's impossible to watch thousands of hours of porn without some takeaway messages about women as objects. Even the girls apparently take this message away, if it's all about his pleasure now (again!).
I am comfortable talking about sex/porn and have discussed these issues with my kids. One niece (25, who had never had an orgasm) told me my anti-porn stance was, essentially, unliberated/backwards. Meanwhile, of the two of us, I was the one having pleasurable sex.
Millenial women: when you give up your own orgasm/pleasure as your litmus test for sexual pleasure, you have regressed to the level of backwardness and sexual inequality of your grandmother's era! This is NOT liberated sex!
31
“Yes, Mom, but I’ve never seen it.” Oh, come on, Peggy. You take that at face value? You are as clueless a parent as the rest of us.
23
I continue to find myself with a foot in both worlds as a 33 year old physician. I can remember picking up the phone to call the home of a girl I thought was pretty and talking to her father. I remember my first internet pornographic image was a grainy picture uploaded over 15 anxious minutes and cell phone at 18 as a college freshman.
Truth is dating is flat out different in the age of the internet and smart phones and it is different for the worse. Sites like Match make dating seem like buying a car where one can expect to find exactly what they are looking for in terms of height, race, looks etc. as if they were options. Tinder and Bumble are much more shallow showing only a picture and a swipe to decide who you would like to rub sex organs with.
I've been on many real dates being 33 and single and it taken time to learn the skills of dating. Sadly I think young people will be worse off than the girls my age who I see on these sites, either as single moms or career women with rapidly ticking biological clocks, still unable to find a partner who is ready to be monogamous. I blame internet porn and the idea of a hookup being a swipe away on a smartphone for a inability of young people to commit and have normal courtship.
I see the family unit will breaking down as this trend plays itself out and people commit less to each other. As a young liberal I would have been all for this but as a adult I realize the value having a stable 2 parent home provided me.
Truth is dating is flat out different in the age of the internet and smart phones and it is different for the worse. Sites like Match make dating seem like buying a car where one can expect to find exactly what they are looking for in terms of height, race, looks etc. as if they were options. Tinder and Bumble are much more shallow showing only a picture and a swipe to decide who you would like to rub sex organs with.
I've been on many real dates being 33 and single and it taken time to learn the skills of dating. Sadly I think young people will be worse off than the girls my age who I see on these sites, either as single moms or career women with rapidly ticking biological clocks, still unable to find a partner who is ready to be monogamous. I blame internet porn and the idea of a hookup being a swipe away on a smartphone for a inability of young people to commit and have normal courtship.
I see the family unit will breaking down as this trend plays itself out and people commit less to each other. As a young liberal I would have been all for this but as a adult I realize the value having a stable 2 parent home provided me.
61
the title is titillating but not really followed in the text. i'd wish it were. the heterosexual pornography i'm familiar with always shows reciprocal oral sex before intercourse, so clearly the teens are ignoring that bit of education. there are whole silos and even entire web sites of porn devoted to female masturbation, female tools of masturbation such as the sybian, and so on for the other practices mentioned in the article.
and, speaking of education, the article should have linked to the 16 CDC guidelines when they were mentioned. broadly, they focus on using condoms, getting information, avoiding risky behavior, and sticking to monogamous and respectful relationships if abstinence is not preferred.
i'm aware of the NY Times's current fascination with identity politics, but the issues of female orgasm and sexual reciprocity are really pretty far afield. the asymmetry described in the article is part of a larger picture that includes the female failure to challenge sexual harassment or avoid situations of rape. if we lit the candle at that end, and educated young women to be more assertive about their comfort and safety, the "sex ed" problem of coercive anal sex would take care of itself.
and, speaking of education, the article should have linked to the 16 CDC guidelines when they were mentioned. broadly, they focus on using condoms, getting information, avoiding risky behavior, and sticking to monogamous and respectful relationships if abstinence is not preferred.
i'm aware of the NY Times's current fascination with identity politics, but the issues of female orgasm and sexual reciprocity are really pretty far afield. the asymmetry described in the article is part of a larger picture that includes the female failure to challenge sexual harassment or avoid situations of rape. if we lit the candle at that end, and educated young women to be more assertive about their comfort and safety, the "sex ed" problem of coercive anal sex would take care of itself.
6
There is a reason the Dutch have a no-nonsense common sense reputation
4
Sex is about power; individual, tribal and societal. Very complex stuff that we know only as much as we do about ourselves, and hopefully our partner(s). More to the point; "While the survey did not reveal a significant difference in how comfortable parents were talking about sex,..." This is the reason for the communication gap that children experience. Parents, the tribe, society and therefore children are confused and largely poorly skilled about how to use this power. Pornography and sex education are merely a reflection of our collective ideas about sex; just as the young are a reflection of our collective ideas about society. With so many young, particularly white women submitting themselves to the making of pornography nowadays, the changes in the sexual landscape and society are vast and ponderous.
While I agree with everything she says, except that it seems she is pushing for women demanding oral sex from men. Hello? Throat cancer is on the rise in men from HPV infection acquired during oral sex. We men shouldn't have to die for your pleasure....
1
Wow. Just wow.
18
Thanks for this great piece! It reminded me of the two excellent books by Robie Harris that I used when my daughter was young - "It's So Amazing" (for parents and children ages 7-10) and "It's Perfectly Normal" (for parents and children "coming into adolescence"). They allowed us to have a continuum of honest, forthright conversations about sex and sexuality.
1
We owe is to our daughters and granddaughters (and sons and grandsons) to change this. It is appalling that we support young women in so many other ways and yet are willing to allow them to be used (and sometimes abused) as nothing more than an orifice for young men. Shame on us. It takes an informed supported young woman to stand up for herself and demand pleasure in her sexual relationships. (And, honestly, the best lover I ever had in my long and good life, was a terrific man who always made sure I came first. I remember him fondly.) -- Grandma
102
First let me say that I've had very frank discussions with my daughter about sex and love. I've never seen any reason to be shy about this.
A poet once said in conversation that a man derives his satisfaction from the satisfaction that he gives to a woman, and I agree with that sentiment. It's true however that many and maybe most men are concerned primarily with their own pleasure and not with their partner's (or partners') pleasure and feelings.
But . . . who's to blame for that? What this article boils down to is a plea to "help" girls navigate the world of sex. When does self-empowerment begin? We preach one thing to girls, then we turn around and view them as victims who need our help. The last thing we need is societal tinkering with our daughter's sex lives. If a girl can't learn to demand better treatment in relationships, how pathetic is that? Almost all heterosexual men are obsessed with women, and having sex with women. Have women become so stupid in the age of feminism that they can't get what they want from men? It's perfectly possible for a woman to demand the treatment she wants a man to give her. Try selling yourself less cheaply. Oh, and maybe elevate your standards a little.
A poet once said in conversation that a man derives his satisfaction from the satisfaction that he gives to a woman, and I agree with that sentiment. It's true however that many and maybe most men are concerned primarily with their own pleasure and not with their partner's (or partners') pleasure and feelings.
But . . . who's to blame for that? What this article boils down to is a plea to "help" girls navigate the world of sex. When does self-empowerment begin? We preach one thing to girls, then we turn around and view them as victims who need our help. The last thing we need is societal tinkering with our daughter's sex lives. If a girl can't learn to demand better treatment in relationships, how pathetic is that? Almost all heterosexual men are obsessed with women, and having sex with women. Have women become so stupid in the age of feminism that they can't get what they want from men? It's perfectly possible for a woman to demand the treatment she wants a man to give her. Try selling yourself less cheaply. Oh, and maybe elevate your standards a little.
3
Thank you for this article. It was knowledgeable and much needed. I was fortunate to be a nurse midwife and was able to talk to my kids starting at an early age giving them age appropriate information. Even so, reading this article I realize I could have done so much more. I can't change that but I do hope younger parents will take heed and follow the recommendations of this article.
2
Seriously? And what issue that the author mentions - relationship, respect, mutual pleasure and many other valid and important elements - is learned from pornography? About all that's there is what part goes in where. If she doesn't know how that works, she's probably from a time warp of another century.
This is worse than watching "Two Broke Girls" to learn how to run a business.
This is worse than watching "Two Broke Girls" to learn how to run a business.
1
All of the things related to adolescents and sex, such as when they start having sex, are genetically determined, and have little to do with social learning. It doesn't matter what you teach or don't teach; the genetic programming of some individuals is that they become sexually knowledgeable very early, while others start late. Nature has balanced various reproductive strategies. There are pros and cons to each, which is why we're all different.
The fundamental issue of sexuality our society is this discordance between nature and culture. Whenever cultural norms are out of synch with biology you're going to have problems. And no where is this more evident than with adolescent sexuality.
The biological purpose of puberty is to embolden the adolescent to leave the family nest, to engage in behaviors to build status and attract potential mates and to engage in reproductive behavior. It's what we are made to do.
Yet as a society we pathologize such behavior and treat it as a risk factor. And impose the stress of shame on our adolescents over their culturally ill-timed biological nature; thus guaranteeing that everyone's sexual experience will begin with fear, ignorance, shame and guilt. In this regard, the Dutch do seem to have a more supportive and concordant approach to adolescent sexuality.
The biological purpose of puberty is to embolden the adolescent to leave the family nest, to engage in behaviors to build status and attract potential mates and to engage in reproductive behavior. It's what we are made to do.
Yet as a society we pathologize such behavior and treat it as a risk factor. And impose the stress of shame on our adolescents over their culturally ill-timed biological nature; thus guaranteeing that everyone's sexual experience will begin with fear, ignorance, shame and guilt. In this regard, the Dutch do seem to have a more supportive and concordant approach to adolescent sexuality.
9
I wish that there would have been more talk about sex and social skills and how nice sex can be. I missed out on a lot in dating because I was too shy. Then when you get to a certain age women judge you if you haven't had relationships.
2
Even the most liberal of parents are caught in a dilemma: where does one teach about 'sensuality'.
Modern sexual mores and anxiety about pedophilia fired by lurid media tales have meant that the under 18 year old has become deemed a child and as such an innocent and thus void of sexual desire.
This, of course, flies in the face of everything that is known about human development.
What is a parent to do? On the one hand the problem is denied and on the other a solution is cried out for - gee, its almost like global warming.
Modern sexual mores and anxiety about pedophilia fired by lurid media tales have meant that the under 18 year old has become deemed a child and as such an innocent and thus void of sexual desire.
This, of course, flies in the face of everything that is known about human development.
What is a parent to do? On the one hand the problem is denied and on the other a solution is cried out for - gee, its almost like global warming.
3
First,"there's a lot of problems with porn" is poor English,so lack of education seems to be a broader issue than education pertaining to sex.With regard to sex,the author is trying to address two distinct issues as if they are one and the same,while the root causes are very different.The first issue,general lack of education about sex both at school and at home,results from a puritan heritage coupled with parents who are not sufficiently mature themselves to discuss any "adult" topic with their offspring.The second,the gender imbalance in terms of respect,expectation and peer pressure is particularly rife in the US because of our macho culture.Sex education is particularly important when the focus is on "jocks,cheerleaders and the locker room" or prom kings and queens.Misogyny is then exacerbated by women's self objectification whilst confusing gender equality with "behaving like guys".
8
Perhaps you should research porn. It's not the same as it was in the 70s and 80s or even just ten years ago.....more and more it's sex positive from every perspective...male, female, gay, straight, even, increasingly transgender....don't discount porn as an educational tool. Humans have been creating "porn" for thousands of years for various purposes! It's not dirty and neither is SEX. Porn is useful!
1
When you're a kid in any era, of course, the subject of sex is a happy, funny subject to talk about with your 14-year-old friends. (Remember, People?) That naturally turns into some kind at least of sex education. That is perhaps the most healthy perspective with which to look at the blooming sexuality among teens.
Remember the implied (and explicit) categories growing up? In the process of navigating life at that age (school, parents, friends, the deep dark unknowns, etc.), you managed with the help of great energy, quickness of wit, and the capacity to learn really fast (remember how fast you learned to talk? That was fast!)
But sex? That was either slow or fast, depending, but for most, that's really slow. I mean, come on! Just to get to that first official make-out session: Shees! And then petting? Wow! Could that be awkward.
But it all was quite a big thrilling, happy, miserable ride, and mostly very, very, very funny. Do you remember at all how much you laughed about sex when you were young?
That's the key to understanding the possibilities of education: remembering, if you possibly can, what it was like then.
Who would make a great sex-ed teacher in high school? Well, not the idiot phys-ed teacher who usually gets the job. In the modern context, I guess a personality like that of a Will Ferrell or Tina Fey would be good. I would say Chris Rock, but the parents would never go for it.
Anyway, I guess we all figured it out somehow. Amazing.
Remember the implied (and explicit) categories growing up? In the process of navigating life at that age (school, parents, friends, the deep dark unknowns, etc.), you managed with the help of great energy, quickness of wit, and the capacity to learn really fast (remember how fast you learned to talk? That was fast!)
But sex? That was either slow or fast, depending, but for most, that's really slow. I mean, come on! Just to get to that first official make-out session: Shees! And then petting? Wow! Could that be awkward.
But it all was quite a big thrilling, happy, miserable ride, and mostly very, very, very funny. Do you remember at all how much you laughed about sex when you were young?
That's the key to understanding the possibilities of education: remembering, if you possibly can, what it was like then.
Who would make a great sex-ed teacher in high school? Well, not the idiot phys-ed teacher who usually gets the job. In the modern context, I guess a personality like that of a Will Ferrell or Tina Fey would be good. I would say Chris Rock, but the parents would never go for it.
Anyway, I guess we all figured it out somehow. Amazing.
2
The same people who deny the importance of sex ed are the same people who deny the importance of science, with equally disastrous results.
10
It's my opinion that porn became sex ed when some cavemen scratched two naked stick figures on the cave wall.
2
@Joe,
Or cavewomen?
3-20-16@12:54 pm
Or cavewomen?
3-20-16@12:54 pm
4
To answer the question in the title, it has been at least more than a century. Read "Spring Awakening" written in 19th century Germany.
What I find problematic is that there are lots of places that women and girls go to find information and knowledge about woman centered desire that is not porn, which is the booming romance novel industry. Yet this is never mentioned in regards to sex.
Most of these books have sex in them but that sex is usually considered from the female point of view, at least enough where her pleasure matters. And as in the Dutch model it is within a relationship, not always long term but less hooking up, and in endless permutations (and I do mean endless, it can get really weird). So why is this not considered? It isn't as if it isn't popular, romance and its more explicit sister erotic are the only field in publishing that is booming, plus it is dominating the digital marketplace as well. So girls don't need to go to porn for information? Why would they think they had to?
Because sex as defined by women isn't considered real sex. Those romance books, the very perspective, is considered tame, prudish, invalid or lacking gritty, reality. (As opposed to man's fantasies, which are of course the real deal, because of course hot chicks deliver PIzza and anything else you want, no strings attached, unless your into bondage and then yes that too please.) And this I think is the real problem, not to little information, but the standard. Girls are told they are not full partners in the act long before we get to it. We are told our perspective itself isn't actually what sex is really about.
Most of these books have sex in them but that sex is usually considered from the female point of view, at least enough where her pleasure matters. And as in the Dutch model it is within a relationship, not always long term but less hooking up, and in endless permutations (and I do mean endless, it can get really weird). So why is this not considered? It isn't as if it isn't popular, romance and its more explicit sister erotic are the only field in publishing that is booming, plus it is dominating the digital marketplace as well. So girls don't need to go to porn for information? Why would they think they had to?
Because sex as defined by women isn't considered real sex. Those romance books, the very perspective, is considered tame, prudish, invalid or lacking gritty, reality. (As opposed to man's fantasies, which are of course the real deal, because of course hot chicks deliver PIzza and anything else you want, no strings attached, unless your into bondage and then yes that too please.) And this I think is the real problem, not to little information, but the standard. Girls are told they are not full partners in the act long before we get to it. We are told our perspective itself isn't actually what sex is really about.
7
The take away here is not what most of these comments emphasize. Learning about sex from pornography is not new -- boys do it and have done it for years and years. It is rather how the objectified body image of women projected in much porn disfigures the way girls and boys think about the sexuality both emotionally and physically (if those are two different things). The Dutch situation is the ideal (as is so much in the Netherlands). Children are not warned off of sex but rather are helped to develop an understanding of it. Big difference here: the claustrophobic religiosity in the US.
82
Aspects of porn exposure are in fact quite new.
Past generations of males did not have immediate and constant (and free) access to live action depictions of sex acts of all possible mutations on their handheld telephone or laptop. Kids as young as third grade certainly did not. Now males in particular are consuming this live action sex from early or middle childhood on.
The warping effect of this degree and type of exposure is in no way parallel to my brothers sneaking into the woods with a worn-out, purloined copy of Playboy in 1978.
Past generations of males did not have immediate and constant (and free) access to live action depictions of sex acts of all possible mutations on their handheld telephone or laptop. Kids as young as third grade certainly did not. Now males in particular are consuming this live action sex from early or middle childhood on.
The warping effect of this degree and type of exposure is in no way parallel to my brothers sneaking into the woods with a worn-out, purloined copy of Playboy in 1978.
15
This is infuriating! As a man who has been primarily concerned with giving my female partner pleasure since before puberty, I cannot imagine what is going through the heads of these obdurate boys. I fear the following:
A small number of males respond early to the 'dominant males' fantasies regularly presented by our culture. They then take control of the environment and the discussion, taunting and bullying any boys or girls who disagree with their selected arrangement.
That it is a small number of males is based on my 50 years of experience. Similarly, sexual attacks are committed by a small number of perpetrators, but because they attack repeatedly they have a grossly disproportionate effect on the population of their victims.
Our sexualized media is filled primarily with imagines of women having pleasure, and a woman having a climax is one of the most erotic images possible for a heterosexual man, so I cannot for the life of me figure out what is going on, other than our culture has caught a very bad meme, akin to a cultural virus.
On the bright side, It is possible that when young men are brought up to understand that one of their highest and best purposes is to bring pleasure to an attractive and admirable woman, women and men will treat each other far better, and society as a whole becomes less aggressive and more constructive generally.
A small number of males respond early to the 'dominant males' fantasies regularly presented by our culture. They then take control of the environment and the discussion, taunting and bullying any boys or girls who disagree with their selected arrangement.
That it is a small number of males is based on my 50 years of experience. Similarly, sexual attacks are committed by a small number of perpetrators, but because they attack repeatedly they have a grossly disproportionate effect on the population of their victims.
Our sexualized media is filled primarily with imagines of women having pleasure, and a woman having a climax is one of the most erotic images possible for a heterosexual man, so I cannot for the life of me figure out what is going on, other than our culture has caught a very bad meme, akin to a cultural virus.
On the bright side, It is possible that when young men are brought up to understand that one of their highest and best purposes is to bring pleasure to an attractive and admirable woman, women and men will treat each other far better, and society as a whole becomes less aggressive and more constructive generally.
11
I also am primarily interested in her pleasure. With my first few girlfriends I was way too gentle so it was a bit boring for them. Later I discovered that there is just the right amount of roughness for each partner, and how to tell what it is for each one.
1
Porn actually can kill love. The objectification of women in hetero porn, and of men in gay porn, and its use in masturbation, sets up a complex interconnection of images, ideas, impulses, and physical responses, which ultimately can become dehumanizing. Porn presents sex, in unreal situations, for personal gratification alone, independent of any real interaction with another human being. It's lurid images seem to show that sex is exactly this; it conditions the body to respond only to the unreal situations and actions performed by the actors, and makes it harder for the user to actually interact with another person sexually, in a spontaneous, authentic way.
As with any drug, there are certainly people who can use it with relatively negligible effects. But many are effected in damaging ways. And with the advent of the internet, porn has become an epidemic whose reach is undreamt of.
All of this makes porn a corrosive agent for the young people for whom it is their first exposure to human sexual behavior. The unreal, often abusive situations shown in porn are a damaging introduction to an important part of life.
As with any drug, there are certainly people who can use it with relatively negligible effects. But many are effected in damaging ways. And with the advent of the internet, porn has become an epidemic whose reach is undreamt of.
All of this makes porn a corrosive agent for the young people for whom it is their first exposure to human sexual behavior. The unreal, often abusive situations shown in porn are a damaging introduction to an important part of life.
89
This is why science based sex education from kindergarten on is so important. The United Church of Christ and the Unitarian Universalist Association have a fabulous courses called "Our Whole Lives" starting in kindergarten through adulthood. These classes teach sex education and spiritual sex education.
6
It is interesting that an "expert" on sex in this age has to use euphemisms to label common sex acts. Fifth base is a new one to me, but if anal sex is inherently painful I wonder how so many gay men learn to enjoy it.
The female actors in pornagrapy may be pretending to enjoy the sexual acts being filmed, and I expect most are, but I don't believe popular sites such as Pornhub are in any way devoid of videos of woman enjoying cunnilingus performed by men- although pornagaphy is likely a business disproportionately tailored towards men (and boys, I'm afraid).
If young woman don't feel entitled to reciprocal effort couldn't that just fall into the common issue of men not being as nurturing or providing of care in their overall relationships with woman- say in doing housework and providing care for children and aging parents?
I am very weary of experts that rely too much on their version of common sense than actual research- even when it is done by way of logical leaps from actual research.
The female actors in pornagrapy may be pretending to enjoy the sexual acts being filmed, and I expect most are, but I don't believe popular sites such as Pornhub are in any way devoid of videos of woman enjoying cunnilingus performed by men- although pornagaphy is likely a business disproportionately tailored towards men (and boys, I'm afraid).
If young woman don't feel entitled to reciprocal effort couldn't that just fall into the common issue of men not being as nurturing or providing of care in their overall relationships with woman- say in doing housework and providing care for children and aging parents?
I am very weary of experts that rely too much on their version of common sense than actual research- even when it is done by way of logical leaps from actual research.
3
Seems like your graphic, which appears to be a woman, should be a man in mid-orgasm. But of course, that couldn't be.
The choice is both product and genesis of the societal problems described in your article.
The choice is both product and genesis of the societal problems described in your article.
7
I am 57. And yes, I've been with younger men. The thing I didn't like about it was that their education was clearly porn. I'm so glad that my first teenage lovers wanted to be great lovers, not try to reenact some money shot from a porn flick. They said romantic things and cared about how I felt. Lucky me. This article confirmed what I long suspected. Show your children great sex scenes from great love story movies. It would be nice if they went back to aspiring to me the romantic heroes of my youth.
13
Good article, except even the author is squeamish and will not discuss the mechanism of female orgasm. Lots of references to what boys do with their penises, not so much about how a girl's/woman's anatomy is designed to bring her similar satisfaction. As a matter of fact one could come away from this article thinking that oral sex is just about blow jobs. If the person saying "it must be discussed" won't even allude to what reciprocity might mean regarding sexual pleasure, we are in pretty bad shape as a culture.
8
A long time ago, when my own parents were struggling with the need to have that talk with me they came up with a great solution.
There was a book, "The Joy Of Sex", that portrayed sexuality in a generous, open manner as a thing of affection, fun and...joy!
They left the book where I could find it. Which, of course, I did. And I was always glad I did.
Has anyone seen a copy recently? It's a small treasure.
There was a book, "The Joy Of Sex", that portrayed sexuality in a generous, open manner as a thing of affection, fun and...joy!
They left the book where I could find it. Which, of course, I did. And I was always glad I did.
Has anyone seen a copy recently? It's a small treasure.
10
I hope they've updated it to get rid of the stoned look on the faces of the man and the woman as well as the alarming levels of body fur -- more than I ever saw in nature in even in the 70s!
Other than that, I agree with you. I found a copyo while babysitting and it was a useful education for young me.
Other than that, I agree with you. I found a copyo while babysitting and it was a useful education for young me.
1
porn the problem, but so is hypermasculinity. Deny feelings, expect entitlement, and "bros before ho's" are what US boys are told to do to be a man.
10
God, I'm so glad you wrote this. One of our greatest disservices to young women is divorcing sex from orgasm. It's not just porn and it's not just pressure from men. I just had a grown (menopausal) woman tell me that any activity that is not penis-in-vagina is not sex. It's a pervasive cultural mythology that it's okay for women to have sex without an orgasm. (Of course, it is if that's what you want, that's perfectly fine.)
Search for information about achieving a female orgasm — from reputable sources! — and it might seem easier to solve the Hodge conjecture: it's difficult to achieve orgasm; only ~33% of women achieve orgasm vaginally; negotiation with your male partner is required; sex is less "physical" for women; women simply stop wanting sex with age; women don't want/need to masturbate; cuddling and intimacy are more important, ad infinitum. Even the language: achieving! As if by definition it's hard work, a challenge. You did it!
And even this article and many of the comments understandably focus on bad outcomes. Jeez, no wonder young women kind of give up and let men run the table. I think we communicate more fear than power to young women. It's not just porn that's an absurd proxy for sex ed. It's our culture. It's us.
Search for information about achieving a female orgasm — from reputable sources! — and it might seem easier to solve the Hodge conjecture: it's difficult to achieve orgasm; only ~33% of women achieve orgasm vaginally; negotiation with your male partner is required; sex is less "physical" for women; women simply stop wanting sex with age; women don't want/need to masturbate; cuddling and intimacy are more important, ad infinitum. Even the language: achieving! As if by definition it's hard work, a challenge. You did it!
And even this article and many of the comments understandably focus on bad outcomes. Jeez, no wonder young women kind of give up and let men run the table. I think we communicate more fear than power to young women. It's not just porn that's an absurd proxy for sex ed. It's our culture. It's us.
12
Most of us grow up and really mature somewhere in our 40s or 50s. Expecting today's teenagers to be any different is of course a delusion. And obviously you can't control what they will hear or see, from peers or on the web.
I've raised two boys, grown and long gone now. I taught them the basics of sex early on, but also emphasized from the youngest years 3 values: honesty, responsibility and kindness. Your choices and actions have consequences, so try and think first. Of course they made plenty of mistakes, just like all of us. But overall they've done well I'd say. I'm lucky of course.
This is an age old problem, one parents have wrestled with for 5000 years. And what can you do except try and convey to your kids - regarding their sexual behavior, or any other behavior - but to be ethical, caring and responsible. At least to the best of your ability and to theirs.
There is no solution to any of our societal problems except to try and teach good values to our children. They in turn will decide what values they believe in, adopt and live. As a parent you can only do so much, but you can try and lay a foundation. No guaranteed outcomes unfortunately.
I've raised two boys, grown and long gone now. I taught them the basics of sex early on, but also emphasized from the youngest years 3 values: honesty, responsibility and kindness. Your choices and actions have consequences, so try and think first. Of course they made plenty of mistakes, just like all of us. But overall they've done well I'd say. I'm lucky of course.
This is an age old problem, one parents have wrestled with for 5000 years. And what can you do except try and convey to your kids - regarding their sexual behavior, or any other behavior - but to be ethical, caring and responsible. At least to the best of your ability and to theirs.
There is no solution to any of our societal problems except to try and teach good values to our children. They in turn will decide what values they believe in, adopt and live. As a parent you can only do so much, but you can try and lay a foundation. No guaranteed outcomes unfortunately.
5
The solution is to recognize that women too can and need to achieve orgasm. Women are not here to merely pleasure men.
8
If he/she is not big enough to feel comfortable having sex discussion, he/she is not big enough to actually have sex.
Why can't there be a simpler solution, like smoking, drinking & voting....you should not try it...unless you are adult enough to understand the nuances.
Why can't there be a simpler solution, like smoking, drinking & voting....you should not try it...unless you are adult enough to understand the nuances.
18
Many full-grown adults are not comfortable having sex discussions. That cannot possibly be a standard for readiness for sexual activity.
4
Good article, except even the author is squeamish and will not discuss the mechanism of female orgasm. Lots of references to what boys do with their penises, not so much about how a woman's anatomy is designed to bring her similar satisfaction. As a matter of fact, one could come away from this article thinking that oral sex is just about blow jobs. If the person saying "it must be discussed" won't even allude to it, we are in pretty bad shape as a culture.
3
Sadly, this rings very, very true to me, although it does make me feel a little less embarrassed about my own sexual "awakening." Would you believe that I had no idea how to masturbate or have an orgasm until I was about twenty years old, despite being a sexually "open" female and considering myself a feminist? I started trying to masturbate in middle school, but because of all the focus on penis-in-vagina sex and my utter ignorance as to my own anatomy (at least kids can now look that up on the Internet!), as well as my shame, my attention was all put in the wrong place. I also tried porn, but because of it's male focus, it didn't really teach me about myself. I couldn't imagine an orgasm. I had five sexual partners, two of them long-term, before I hit the jackpot with a guy - the roommate of my anal-sex-loving ex-boyfriend! - who was sometimes bullied as a "faggy artist" and who actually, bingo, was the first man I was with who knew how to make a girl orgasm, and enjoyed doing so. He would have probably loved to know that he was my first real orgasm, but I was too embarrassed to tell him. It did teach me one thing, though: ah, that's how it works. And it made me love sex, which was something I had always found vaguely unsatisfying. Now, my husband is the most sexually giving and and pleasurable person I've ever been with, and while I don't want to attribute the success of our marriage to that one fact, it is certainly not negligible. Took me a while to get here, though.
14
Porn does not teach kids or anyone about what real sex is like or how it happens, not at all in any way. It is entertainment that portrays very staged generally male generated "fantasies" that have nothing to do w/ women or reality. When I found that my Jr High age boys had a porn tape (they left it in the VCR), I saw it as a teaching moment and even though they had had solid sex-ed in we had the big serious conversation about what real sex was like and that if they wanted girlfriends in the future they should not follow the porn-script...and it worked. I treasure that conversation and the results are life long.....we need more sexually well balanced people in this world not more obsessive sexual neurotics and men who have no idea what women want or need in a sexual relationship. When 9 year olds are being pressured it's a sign that this has gone too far...they are children, let them enjoy their brief period of innocence...they have a lifetime ahead of them. As a mother of boys I must question the parenting of those boys who harass elementary school girls. Where is the guidance for those boys? Shame on them. Speak with your kids and know them....they know far more then most parents suspect.
62
If parents' knowledge of sex and sexuality come from only themselves, how can they possibly be expected to pass on useful information...ignorance begets ignorance. Preaching the "abstinence" is tantamount to adults disregarding their own sexuality and sticking their heads in the sand pleading ignorance.
Porn is only useful in demonstrating who and how many can play what part and the variation of parts that can be played. Little wonder a lot of grown men revert to little boys whenever interacting with women, little wonder the break-up percentage...little wonder the level and degree of sexual frustration in women. (bad-boy persona notwithstanding, women prefer a nice guy who finishes last, they so seldom find one or are found by one)
Porn is only useful in demonstrating who and how many can play what part and the variation of parts that can be played. Little wonder a lot of grown men revert to little boys whenever interacting with women, little wonder the break-up percentage...little wonder the level and degree of sexual frustration in women. (bad-boy persona notwithstanding, women prefer a nice guy who finishes last, they so seldom find one or are found by one)
5
When Did Porn Become Sex Ed? About 100 million years ago.
3
I believe that using porn as sex ed by middle and high school children is terrible, because usually porn shows certain acts as normal and the norm, and it shouldn't be this way. Erotica yes, but not porn. Boys get unrealistic expectations, and girls are put under the pressure to deliver pornographic type sex as "business as normal."
64
There was a school board member in /of my community who spoke pretty much of what you say in this article.He was an advocate.This was in the early 1990's. Unfortunately, most what he said went to deaf ears and sounds like it continues today.
This issue alone is what educating children is really about.Teach them, do not discourage them because of some preconceived fear or lack of understanding of a natural change that all humans go through. It is part of life(reminds me of why we discourage breast feeding and weather woman should show a nipple).Share it, as parents and children.
I too,would also have liked to have read the conversation with your daughter had she said yes mom I have seen porn. Perhaps next article you could write about this.It needs to be discussed.Also good comparison with Dutch as a comparison of what a difference of openness can make.
This issue alone is what educating children is really about.Teach them, do not discourage them because of some preconceived fear or lack of understanding of a natural change that all humans go through. It is part of life(reminds me of why we discourage breast feeding and weather woman should show a nipple).Share it, as parents and children.
I too,would also have liked to have read the conversation with your daughter had she said yes mom I have seen porn. Perhaps next article you could write about this.It needs to be discussed.Also good comparison with Dutch as a comparison of what a difference of openness can make.
3
This article is quite relevant. I have traveled to Europe and I found that the acceptance of nudity as natural helps aid in the conversation about sex. Mostly because nudity is ok, sex and talking openly about it is, too. If nudity and sex weren't taboo, it wouldn't be exploited here and females wouldn't be experiencing "body/slut shaming". Madison, WI had a nude beach closed recently because of too much public sex. I'm convinced Americans are indeed confused about the matter. If we can't handle seeing a woman's skin, how can we teach anatomy?
4
Several points: Female sexuality indeed is different from male sexuality, arranged this way by Nature which intends intercourse to produce pregnancy and new life in our wombs. It is way past time females cease trying to imitate the male model, and instead assert our female way of being. And for females, mere physical gymnastics is not satisfying. For us, sexual arousal and fulfillment best take place within and emotional context: we feel loved, we love, we feel bonded, we feel safe. We are not vending machines for male orgasm, and our bodies are not recreation centers. Sex is normal, sex is good...when it takes place within loving relationship.
20
And what of the women who just like sex?
2
Admirably stated Anne. With many memories @ 64, I still know the best sex, to which I tear at it's absence, is when my mate would look me in the eye, hug me, and tell me how she loved me. I never heard those words after My orgasms; I did hear those words after hers. What I do have a soft time "remembering" were the rec center girls, as you aptly put it. Arousal, bonding, safety. Absolutely lady! Without which, by the way, males remain entombed in a non-empathetic world!
2
Yes, and it should be this way for men too.
1
In the past, we had to rely on the education system, but today, we have the internet. There should be more female-friendly web sites out there that educate young women about the kind of sex that, unlike porn, values both parties' pleasure equally and does not objectify women. In allowing porn to dominate our sex lives to this extent, we are not only hurting women; we are also hurting men. As much as some (or most) men might prefer to think that sex is their own special territory and that talking about women's sexual pleasure is PC nonsense, a world in which women are as sexually liberated as men (and where birth control is freely available) would be better for the sex lives of men as well as women.
9
We fancy ourselves 'rational humans' (homo sapiens) but the subject of 'sex' is one of the last to succumb to reason.
So, here's an inelegant start.
Every species needs to procreate, though not every individual needs to be directly involved.
There was a time when the need for MORE people was more dire.... the need for human labor, etc.,... than now.
Now I would argue, we and the planet would be better off with fewer.
So how do we manage our drives to serve our collective needs ?
Sex with Respect (which porn often does not provide) is mindful of the powerful role of sex in life, but mindful, also, of our changed landscape.
Sure, let's have children (we must!), but only when those children are loved and can be provided for, in a world we care about.
Currently, too many people act on our contorted 'instinct' alone, often resulting in mindless propagation. We should draw the curtain on this era. It has done more harm than good.
So, here's an inelegant start.
Every species needs to procreate, though not every individual needs to be directly involved.
There was a time when the need for MORE people was more dire.... the need for human labor, etc.,... than now.
Now I would argue, we and the planet would be better off with fewer.
So how do we manage our drives to serve our collective needs ?
Sex with Respect (which porn often does not provide) is mindful of the powerful role of sex in life, but mindful, also, of our changed landscape.
Sure, let's have children (we must!), but only when those children are loved and can be provided for, in a world we care about.
Currently, too many people act on our contorted 'instinct' alone, often resulting in mindless propagation. We should draw the curtain on this era. It has done more harm than good.
7
In the early seventies, when a lot of parents, including my own, didn't talk to their kids about sex education; I was lucky to have an older sister who bought for me "Our Bodies, Ourselves". If you have trouble talking to your kids about sex- this was and still is- a fabulous resource book.
In addition, I am very glad that President Obama is not wasting our tax dollars for abstinence only programs, which have been found to be totally useless. Instead, places like Planned Parenthood where young men and women can turn to for sex education and birth control should be totally supported. They treat young adults with dignity and give the proper medical care they need that they don't get at home or in their schools- depending on the State they live in.
In addition, I am very glad that President Obama is not wasting our tax dollars for abstinence only programs, which have been found to be totally useless. Instead, places like Planned Parenthood where young men and women can turn to for sex education and birth control should be totally supported. They treat young adults with dignity and give the proper medical care they need that they don't get at home or in their schools- depending on the State they live in.
11
Dear Ms. Orenstein,
Your article does a marvelous job of explaining both the causes and consequences of teen and adult ignorance of and confusion about sexuality in both its anatomical and emotional senses. Unfortunately such ignorance is not viewed as any sort of problem except by those in the West who self-define as Humanists (either of the secular or sectarian variety). In the anti-Humanist wide, wide world female sexuality is brutally suppressed by some sort of holy writ enforced by a grotesquely powerful collective male fist. Most of the globe, large swaths of the USA, and even parts of Europe are suppressed in this manner. This problem is simply one of many that can be solved only by proper socialization and education of our young from the day each person is born. So the problem is not with the young, but rather with their parents…adults who already have deeply ingrained attitudes and behaviors that are about as malleable as the Rock of Ages. So the question remains: “How do we blast that sad old boulder into dust?” Certainly we can’t expect government leaders, government-controlled schools, or most religious organizations to be anything but an obstacle. So where’s the dynamite coming from and who’s going to set it off?
Your article does a marvelous job of explaining both the causes and consequences of teen and adult ignorance of and confusion about sexuality in both its anatomical and emotional senses. Unfortunately such ignorance is not viewed as any sort of problem except by those in the West who self-define as Humanists (either of the secular or sectarian variety). In the anti-Humanist wide, wide world female sexuality is brutally suppressed by some sort of holy writ enforced by a grotesquely powerful collective male fist. Most of the globe, large swaths of the USA, and even parts of Europe are suppressed in this manner. This problem is simply one of many that can be solved only by proper socialization and education of our young from the day each person is born. So the problem is not with the young, but rather with their parents…adults who already have deeply ingrained attitudes and behaviors that are about as malleable as the Rock of Ages. So the question remains: “How do we blast that sad old boulder into dust?” Certainly we can’t expect government leaders, government-controlled schools, or most religious organizations to be anything but an obstacle. So where’s the dynamite coming from and who’s going to set it off?
3
"college women are more likely than men to use their partner’s physical pleasure as the yardstick for their satisfaction, saying things like “If he’s sexually satisfied, then I’m sexually satisfied.” "
I have noticed this trend and the trend towards more non reciprocated oral sex and the new acceptance of anal sex. Media/movies/tv shows are hinting at this. Another thing I see in media is very often the sex between and man and women is from the back, and does not seem to portray love as much as dominance, and frankly seems animal like to me (doggy style). What message does this send?
Not to mention all the drunken date rapes on Campus, I think we have failed a generation of girls who yes, are taught that women are equal to men, and believe they are feminists, but submit to very unequal footing in the sex department, and put up with it! They don't know how to expect/demand respect in the sexual sphere. It's very disturbing to this old(ish) lady.
I have noticed this trend and the trend towards more non reciprocated oral sex and the new acceptance of anal sex. Media/movies/tv shows are hinting at this. Another thing I see in media is very often the sex between and man and women is from the back, and does not seem to portray love as much as dominance, and frankly seems animal like to me (doggy style). What message does this send?
Not to mention all the drunken date rapes on Campus, I think we have failed a generation of girls who yes, are taught that women are equal to men, and believe they are feminists, but submit to very unequal footing in the sex department, and put up with it! They don't know how to expect/demand respect in the sexual sphere. It's very disturbing to this old(ish) lady.
14
After studies in St Louis and Colorado, indications are clear that anti-abortion religious beliefs and opposition clearly increase the US abortion rate. Now, it appears fairly certain that these same beliefs/opposition to real sex education increase rates of sodomy (not that there is anything wrong with that). What has puritanism wrought?
6
-When Did Porn
Become Sex Ed?-
That answer is known by these readers. It's the rest of the population that needs to understand. Oh, right education based on property taxes leaves us ignorant.
Become Sex Ed?-
That answer is known by these readers. It's the rest of the population that needs to understand. Oh, right education based on property taxes leaves us ignorant.
There is a biological difference between men and women and that is that men's orgasms are easy, obvious (and thus filmable), and easily taken from another human being, even without their consent. This difference is responsible for the power differential between the sexes and contributes to gender inequality. Women will never be able to feel powerful like a man can always get what he wants and may even have an orgasm BECAUSE he could and a woman couldn't-it has more to do with power than with sexual attraction. Women have to demand equality in the bedroom. Girls, if there is a chance that he won't give you an orgasm (strong chance), don't take him home-one night stands don't typically work because men DO NOT CARE about you enough to learn how to please you. And if he is in your bedroom but does not give you an orgasm, KICK HIM OUT. Stand up for equality. Equal pay, equal rights, equal orgasms. None of this "it's ok, I'm feel just as great cuddling without an orgasm" nonsense.
9
Does nobody read anymore? My impression as a teenager was that every boomer parent had either The Joy Of Sex or Our Bodies, Ourselves on a shelf somewhere, and we Gen Xers just took those books to our rooms and read them when we got curious.
15
Funny. My parents had the Joy of Sex on their bookshelf. It was quite the find for my former teenage self. My wife had Our Bodes, Ourselves. An excellent book.
My children grew up before free unlimited porn saturated the internet. It is scary that young boys and girls are using it as their primer to sex.
My children grew up before free unlimited porn saturated the internet. It is scary that young boys and girls are using it as their primer to sex.
5
The big virtue of Joy of Sex was that its copious illustrations showed real-looking people, with lumps and bumps and bulges and body hair and sweat. However, I have the first edition, and especially if you were gay or lesbian it was no help at all - Dr Comfort was not comfortable with alternative lifestyles.
3
Instead of mothers wondering and worrying about how to discuss sex with their daughters, I'd like to see more fathers and sons brought into the conversation. It seems to me that parents can do a whole lot more than they currently do to educate their sons about sex. Boys need to learn that porn is not representative of real sex between real adults and that women are entitled to pleasure in sex. It's not just a man's game. Boys are not taught to respect girls and women, or else young girls would not have to face the pressure they do. Too many parents still subscribe to the "boys will be boys" mentality that lets boys off the hook for predatory behavior at a young age.
11
I recently re-read Judith Levine's "Harmful to Minors: The Perils of Protecting Children from Sex," published in 2002. Apart from the greater proliferation of online pornography, it's clear that as a nation we haven't changed much in a decade and a half - we fight tooth and nail against the recommendation of Ms. Levine and now Ms. Orenstein (not to mention Dr. Joycelyn Elders) that education of the young include the acceptance of sexuality as a joyful and pleasurable part of life, equally for both boys and girls.
3
Having lived in the Netherlands for 5 years, a healthy attitude toward sex is not the only thing the Dutch got right: reclaiming the sea and harnessing wind power are a couple more examples.
5
Children are often taught how to say "no," but not how to negotiate "yes."
As a teenager, reading narratives from adult women about their sexual experiences as young women was enough to encourage delay, as they often spoke of unsatisfying sex due to selfish or ignorant partners. I think girls who learn what works for them first will expect pleasure for both parties when coupled.
As a teenager, reading narratives from adult women about their sexual experiences as young women was enough to encourage delay, as they often spoke of unsatisfying sex due to selfish or ignorant partners. I think girls who learn what works for them first will expect pleasure for both parties when coupled.
6
I think part of the problem is that the way sex is practiced, and shown in porn, reflects the power paradigm between the genders (males get power--females don't) that we are trying to change want to change. We want to change porn to reflect our burgeoning equality.
3
In 1994 Bill Clinton's Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders was at a conference about AIDS and somebody from the floor asked her whether she thought sex education courses should teach about masturbation. She said they should. After a "gotcha" article in U.S. News and World Report, she was fired by the Clinton Administration.
At that point, it became impossible to have a rational discussion about sex education in the U.S.
In light of his affair with Monica Lewinski, Bill Clinton's response was beyond hypocrisy. The hit man was Leon Panetta, who is now supporting Hillary.
So it's not just the Republicans, it's the "centerist" Democrats too who have obstructed sex education in the U.S. I don't think we can expect any better from them, even in a Hillary Clinton Administration.
At that point, it became impossible to have a rational discussion about sex education in the U.S.
In light of his affair with Monica Lewinski, Bill Clinton's response was beyond hypocrisy. The hit man was Leon Panetta, who is now supporting Hillary.
So it's not just the Republicans, it's the "centerist" Democrats too who have obstructed sex education in the U.S. I don't think we can expect any better from them, even in a Hillary Clinton Administration.
5
When did porn become sex Ed? Well, when did porn begin?
3
That is a staggeringly beautiful and erotic illustration and that's all I'm going to say about it lest my going on about it any more get it pulled off the front page of the gray lady...
1
Hmmm...I'm not sure that graphic is appropriate for this column. Or maybe it's too appropriate...
4
I see the unhappy results of what you are describing in my psychotherapy office: Young women depressed by bad relationships and young men who are addicted to porn or hookers and who feel entitled to constant entertainment from a woman. My best piece of advice to young American women is: Leave. Get out of the United States. Men here don't know how to have sex and they care even less. If you come back, at least you'll know what to ask for.
14
It is a shame that in this otherwise excellent essay, Peggy Orenstein failed to imagine that adoelscents might also be interested in same-sex sex. Our cultural assumption that heterosexuality is the default setting makes LGBT kids even more invisible in comprehensive sex education--as demonstrated here in this essay.
6
Are the editors of the NYT insane? What's with the image accompanying this story showing a woman - and only a woman - wearing bright red lipstick, with her mouth open and her head tilted back, as if she's about to perform oral sex?
Perpetuate the stereotype much, NYT? Objectify women much, NYT?
Take it down. It's insulting, and it's unnecessary. And, yes, I'm a woman.
Perpetuate the stereotype much, NYT? Objectify women much, NYT?
Take it down. It's insulting, and it's unnecessary. And, yes, I'm a woman.
15
Physiologically, male sexual excitement is obvious and easy to film. Male climax is definitive, required for reproduction and extremely easy to film. Has a refractory period after. When to say "The End" is clear. Not the same for woman. Moving the focus to woman is complicated.
1
The Dutch aren't the only ones to deal sanely with sex education. Virtually all of the Scandanavian countries do as well.
My long time (40 + years) Danish friends think we in the USA are just plain nuts! I am pleased to say that 40 years ago I got a great education in Denmark!
My long time (40 + years) Danish friends think we in the USA are just plain nuts! I am pleased to say that 40 years ago I got a great education in Denmark!
5
Orenstein's major motive seems to see that the young women understand that they are being exploited by males. Once the women are unhappy about being exploited, then they can then have their self-esteem rebuilt along politically correct lines. That in a nutshell is the motive of gender studies courses and culture. Female college students, luckily, dismiss this kind of stuff. They like being women and they like men being men. They don't think that being a woman is a problem that needs to solved by "experts."
6
Thank you to the NYT Editor for having this kind of column.
Fox News will no doubt use it as evidence for why the NYT is in the vanguard of the attack on family values. Greg Gutting could have a great time making snide jokes of this sort:
"NYT in favor of teen-aged sex. Wants to cut $2 billion in Federal funding for sex education in schools."
What younger girls have to know is that there are a lot of young boys with the sexual maturity of Donald Trump out there waiting to take advantage of them.
And young boys have to be taught that sex is a really Yuge! deal, but not in the way in which the Party of The Donald might present it.
Fox News will no doubt use it as evidence for why the NYT is in the vanguard of the attack on family values. Greg Gutting could have a great time making snide jokes of this sort:
"NYT in favor of teen-aged sex. Wants to cut $2 billion in Federal funding for sex education in schools."
What younger girls have to know is that there are a lot of young boys with the sexual maturity of Donald Trump out there waiting to take advantage of them.
And young boys have to be taught that sex is a really Yuge! deal, but not in the way in which the Party of The Donald might present it.
4
What's the big surprise here? Sex education mirrors the culture at large: the American ethos is to blunder about blindly, whether it's in our politics, our military adventures (in support of private corporate interests or not), or our criminal justice system (see War on Drugs), etc. It's no wonder that our otherwise commercially sex-addled culture should be blundering about blindly "down there."
100
This column is tangling too many issues. How sex is taught by parents, and schools, in the US, as compared to Dutch parents. Porn, and it's supposed connection to Sex Ed. Increased prevalence of all modalities of sex. Pleasure, and who gets it. Politics of said pleasure. National differences on teaching methods. Back to porn.
I completely understand how the author is frustrated by stories she's heard, it's an ugly world out there. However, this article does little to clarify the tangle she presents. It seems she wants some credit for having had a direct talk with her middle school daughter about porn, and would like credit from the NYT readership. She should have spent more time on the construction of this piece before submitting it, though.
I completely understand how the author is frustrated by stories she's heard, it's an ugly world out there. However, this article does little to clarify the tangle she presents. It seems she wants some credit for having had a direct talk with her middle school daughter about porn, and would like credit from the NYT readership. She should have spent more time on the construction of this piece before submitting it, though.
2
Sex educator here. My job has introduced me to so many women who reach adulthood with little formal sex education, no concept of their own anatomy or even the knowledge that they are meant to derive pleasure from sex at all. It makes me feel really sad, but also very lucky that I grew up with a liberal, open-minded mom and with no pressures or restrictions imposed on me by religion. I'll never take that for granted again. However, consent and pleasure were largely left out of my formal and informal education on sex, too. Our norms on discussing sex may be shifting slightly but America's Puritanical roots run deep, and for adults discussing sex with kids is inherently uncomfortable. It's a lot to overcome, but if we can at least help adults learn to discuss it more openly, their children are bound to benefit from their parents' enlightenment in less direct ways.
48
The fact that there are so few comments on this piece validates the author's assertion that many people are not comfortable discussing female sexuality.
Kudos for pointing out the residual Puritanical discrimination against women in our society.
Kudos for pointing out the residual Puritanical discrimination against women in our society.
3
We live in a decadent society so this is to be expected.
Parenting is harder these days, and so few parents are equipped to do it competently.
Parenting is harder these days, and so few parents are equipped to do it competently.
2
The Our Whole Lives curriculum created by the United Church of Christ and the Unitarian Universalists is the best sexuality training I've used with Teens. Please check it out in the future.
1
Let us not rule out the possibility that there may be societies that are so prudish that no serious discussion of sex is possible. Sometimes watching porn is the only way that messages can be delivered. Porn that includes even the most implicit safe sex messages is sometimes the only way to get anything across to vulnerable populations.
2
I see porn mentioned a lot in this article, with a clearly negative slant.
Ms. Orenstein could have mentioned erotica as well, and drawn the distinction.
Dan Kravitz
Ms. Orenstein could have mentioned erotica as well, and drawn the distinction.
Dan Kravitz
28
My mother had the wherewithal to sit down with her daughters (3 of us) many, many years ago and explain what sex was and that it felt good but that it shouldn't be divorced from love and caring.
The psychology of teenagers and that level of intimacy can be a delicate balance and one that should be handled with open honest communication. When the only thing discussed is mechanical, or physical, the kids lose. Parenting means being responsible for the well being of your child, especially when that requires doing the difficult things. C'mon people grow up and do what you signed up for, or if you can't, alow the schools to teach the information that is necessary for children to grow into healthy adults.
The psychology of teenagers and that level of intimacy can be a delicate balance and one that should be handled with open honest communication. When the only thing discussed is mechanical, or physical, the kids lose. Parenting means being responsible for the well being of your child, especially when that requires doing the difficult things. C'mon people grow up and do what you signed up for, or if you can't, alow the schools to teach the information that is necessary for children to grow into healthy adults.
21
Well lets face it parents don't know much more about sex than their kids. Seriously. And todays parents probably got their sex education from porn too !! Free porn, after a while is boring and lifeless anyway but at least the technical basics are there. Of concern would be the models that the kids are seeing in the sex act, usually men with extra large penises and women with curvy voluptuous bodies who gotta, gotta, gotta, have it.
For the majority, it just ain't that way.
I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
People (both sexes) today are having more ( or less ) and better sex than any time in the history of the world.
We all seem to be muddling through it just fine, thanks very much, but we get it. Ya gotta make a living, right?
For the majority, it just ain't that way.
I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
People (both sexes) today are having more ( or less ) and better sex than any time in the history of the world.
We all seem to be muddling through it just fine, thanks very much, but we get it. Ya gotta make a living, right?
1
Your comments just proved her point. In case you missed it, porn is penis/vagina sex, but real satisfying sex is not that model for women. And most women don't realize it, or at least demand clitoral orgasms.
5
Why don't we hear more whimpering about same-sex encounters, particularly those between men where the expectation is purely sexual without the messy contrivance of emotions, and their blackmail aspects, that women always want to place on men? Men love the pleasure that they feel from sex, not necessarily the woman who provides it. And women love the pleasure that they give, according to the Vicomte de Valmont's wise auntie in "Les Liaisons Dangereuses." We would do well to read this drama based on a correspondence and mine from it as best we can.
1
Dude- that wise auntie is a fictional character written by a man.
7
Dude - that wise auntie is a fictional character created by a man.
Perhaps what you say is true and most definitely interesting. But you're wrong about boys. A male in this society has no sexuality. They've been shamed into a partial truth based on hard wiring. It's how the species continues. But when I hear that "females" have a fluid sexuality. I think, gee, funny how all these bisexual girls have the funny habit of winding up with men. A naked man in a movie, god forbid, uptight mothers and fathers do not want their male sons to see a man naked. Fear of them being gay is the real reason. One can't admire another male without being shamed or ostracized or forcing to declare a damaging label. Women have it easier and are treated wth greater sensitivity, respect and never ridiculed. This is a great thing. Too bad males don't receive the same treatment. There might be fewer divorces if sexuality amongst both genders were respected. I'd like to see the reaction if a vagina were referred to as "her junk." Yet it is routinely called that by men and women when referring to a penis. Other names, beyond "junk" "his thing" "dingy" , and far more demeaning names. Where do you get the idea that men are treated so much more respectfully? Male sexuality has been obliterated after Kinsey by the church, women, and men who were shamed into silence. Take a look at Craigslist and see what men are really into. Wow. Perhaps there would be less deceit, fewer divorces and healthier sex between men and women if both were respected equally for sexuality.
12
More honesty is needed here.
Many of us, even though we're now getting on in years, may not have had that many sexual partners or varied sexual experiences.
Many or most of our most intimate experiences may have been rather unsatisfying. Some of us, male and female, may even have found often the intimacy of sex rather revolting. Love, while much lauded, is not everything it's made out to be. There's a lot to be said for carnal desire. Just because you love someone, or think you do, doesn't necessarily make the sex any better if they are simply not that turned on by you, or you are not that turned on by them, and if neither of you knows very much about the art of giving pleasure.
Some porn is quite good. Much porn is stomach turning or so predictable with really unattractive silicone filled actresses, ugly overweight or scrawny males, a terrible script, incompetent camera work and worse acting by all involved that it's simply not worth watching.
But, unlike an unsatisfactory relationship, porn can be easily switched off with no consequences and no heart breaks.
Many of us, even though we're now getting on in years, may not have had that many sexual partners or varied sexual experiences.
Many or most of our most intimate experiences may have been rather unsatisfying. Some of us, male and female, may even have found often the intimacy of sex rather revolting. Love, while much lauded, is not everything it's made out to be. There's a lot to be said for carnal desire. Just because you love someone, or think you do, doesn't necessarily make the sex any better if they are simply not that turned on by you, or you are not that turned on by them, and if neither of you knows very much about the art of giving pleasure.
Some porn is quite good. Much porn is stomach turning or so predictable with really unattractive silicone filled actresses, ugly overweight or scrawny males, a terrible script, incompetent camera work and worse acting by all involved that it's simply not worth watching.
But, unlike an unsatisfactory relationship, porn can be easily switched off with no consequences and no heart breaks.
6
Unless you are addicted to porn. Not so easy to switch off then.
I feel lucky to have been born in the United States, but I may have been luckier to have been born in Norhern Europe.
14
I teach college gender studies, and I am impressed by my students' self respect and sensitivity to others, which is far greater than it was amongst my peers in the 1980s.
What troubles me is that they view images, media, and actions that are degrading to women as empowering. If she *looks* sexy and happy, they believe, she must feel good about herself -- and this applies to everything from lingerie models to porn to prostitution. I recently asked one class to search the net for sex workers who feel good about their work, and they told me that the "internet is biased against sex."
Happily, they respect personal choices/boundaries for themselves and the people they know, but they have a terrible blind spot: what looks like empowerment and choice to them (prostitution, e.g.) often is not. To them, "She wants to do it, so all the power to her."
What troubles me is that they view images, media, and actions that are degrading to women as empowering. If she *looks* sexy and happy, they believe, she must feel good about herself -- and this applies to everything from lingerie models to porn to prostitution. I recently asked one class to search the net for sex workers who feel good about their work, and they told me that the "internet is biased against sex."
Happily, they respect personal choices/boundaries for themselves and the people they know, but they have a terrible blind spot: what looks like empowerment and choice to them (prostitution, e.g.) often is not. To them, "She wants to do it, so all the power to her."
74
I never thought about how women's sexuality is defined in terms of physical conditions to be managed (periods, childbirth, menopause) and not about sexual pleasure, but it is so true!
I feel quite robbed, actually. Like all I am seen as is a collection of "strange" parts, while men are fully integrated systems.
Listen to any discussion about reproductive choice, consent, a wage gap, sexism and men speak of women like some "other" in habitant of the plant on which they live. Women are right in there, going along with it.
There is an acceptance gap, starting from the very beginning, with those early lessons on what our bodies are for. They're not just for making babies.
I feel quite robbed, actually. Like all I am seen as is a collection of "strange" parts, while men are fully integrated systems.
Listen to any discussion about reproductive choice, consent, a wage gap, sexism and men speak of women like some "other" in habitant of the plant on which they live. Women are right in there, going along with it.
There is an acceptance gap, starting from the very beginning, with those early lessons on what our bodies are for. They're not just for making babies.
109
The problem doesn't begin with, and is not limited to teenagers and college age women.
A very small percentage of American women honor, or even recognize, the importance of their own sexual pleasure to the quality of their relationships. Not to mention their own quality of life, physical and emotional health, and well being.
The only difference between the Dutch and American model is the focus on women's pleasure as central to both proceedings and result. That includes the requirement of emotional connection for a satisfying experience.
We jumped from Philip Roth's generation, for whom "copping a feel," and "taking" something from a woman that she was told not to "give," was the way to sexual bliss. For Millennials, "hand job/man job," "blow job/yo'job," and "anal" are the dominant sexual lexicon.
For a few halcyon years in between, we matured with the idea of having and celebrating our sexuality ("multiples" de rigeur in our lexicon) as a given and divine right.
Why are young women now excelling in every other area of life, only to endure a cloddish culture of brute male ignorance when it comes to the most tender, intimate part of their lives? Why are they accepting that?
Who is educating young women of today in their entitlement to demand their birthright of full sexual joy, connection, and pleasure?
A very small percentage of American women honor, or even recognize, the importance of their own sexual pleasure to the quality of their relationships. Not to mention their own quality of life, physical and emotional health, and well being.
The only difference between the Dutch and American model is the focus on women's pleasure as central to both proceedings and result. That includes the requirement of emotional connection for a satisfying experience.
We jumped from Philip Roth's generation, for whom "copping a feel," and "taking" something from a woman that she was told not to "give," was the way to sexual bliss. For Millennials, "hand job/man job," "blow job/yo'job," and "anal" are the dominant sexual lexicon.
For a few halcyon years in between, we matured with the idea of having and celebrating our sexuality ("multiples" de rigeur in our lexicon) as a given and divine right.
Why are young women now excelling in every other area of life, only to endure a cloddish culture of brute male ignorance when it comes to the most tender, intimate part of their lives? Why are they accepting that?
Who is educating young women of today in their entitlement to demand their birthright of full sexual joy, connection, and pleasure?
22
Because their mothers (my generation) didn't know their own bodies, and were incompetent to teach.
The comparison between American and Dutch teenagers is more than a little bit tendentious. It does not sound like the Dutch survey included the large Muslim population (majority in Amsterdam), whose attitudes are probably somewhat less politically correct. On the other side, the American survey seems to have made no effort to limit itself to the middle-class-and-above white teenagers whose experience is most likely to parallel the Dutch white subpopulation.
Just another more ooo-the-Europeans-are-so-much-better liberal nonsense. Why doesn't the author just move her family to the Netherlands, I wonder? Oh, right, because most of Amsterdam is unsafe for a girl walking alone
Just another more ooo-the-Europeans-are-so-much-better liberal nonsense. Why doesn't the author just move her family to the Netherlands, I wonder? Oh, right, because most of Amsterdam is unsafe for a girl walking alone
7
Sex education?
It seems historically sex is not something people are supposed to get good at; there is not even much of art there historically let alone science. Take music or any team sport. You have constant talk of theory and practice--and often exchanges with multiple partners. And of course you have experts, professionals, and lesser talents. Nothing like that--no other picture we have arrived at concerning types of intercourse between people--has existed in sex.
We have sex manuals which we are supposed to read. We talk about sex a lot. But apparently it cannot be put into operation like music or a sport or other collaboration. But ironically we call two people having sex and children together for life a marriage. We have traditional ways to go about sex and marriage but apparently neither are much of art or science.
Pornography is often spoken of with contempt, that it is bad whether we speak of morals or aesthetics, that it is certainly banal, but that seems a lot to say when you cannot have sex be an art in the first place and so many suffer in marriages or just get divorced.
The fact is there is no apparent logic, sense, in sex education, sex, marriage and pornography. Nothing like an arrangement so we can get a picture like in the history of an art, and certainly there is no science. I watch pornography and do not find it strange that often there I find women pleasing themselves (with toys) and seeming satisfied--women I do not find in actual life.
It seems historically sex is not something people are supposed to get good at; there is not even much of art there historically let alone science. Take music or any team sport. You have constant talk of theory and practice--and often exchanges with multiple partners. And of course you have experts, professionals, and lesser talents. Nothing like that--no other picture we have arrived at concerning types of intercourse between people--has existed in sex.
We have sex manuals which we are supposed to read. We talk about sex a lot. But apparently it cannot be put into operation like music or a sport or other collaboration. But ironically we call two people having sex and children together for life a marriage. We have traditional ways to go about sex and marriage but apparently neither are much of art or science.
Pornography is often spoken of with contempt, that it is bad whether we speak of morals or aesthetics, that it is certainly banal, but that seems a lot to say when you cannot have sex be an art in the first place and so many suffer in marriages or just get divorced.
The fact is there is no apparent logic, sense, in sex education, sex, marriage and pornography. Nothing like an arrangement so we can get a picture like in the history of an art, and certainly there is no science. I watch pornography and do not find it strange that often there I find women pleasing themselves (with toys) and seeming satisfied--women I do not find in actual life.
1
Is "The Joy of Sex", with its now-dated drawings of men with 70's hair, no longer available? It's far from perfect--but it is not porn, and it assumes a right to pleasure in both participants.
I confess I am dubious that most Americans will feel comfortable discussing the pleasures of sex in detail with their adolescent children--or even their adult children--any time soon. And I am not sure that it is only puritanism that makes us hesitate. There's a thing called boundaries--and conversations with one's own children about sex can easily transgress their boundaries, as well as our own.
I confess I am dubious that most Americans will feel comfortable discussing the pleasures of sex in detail with their adolescent children--or even their adult children--any time soon. And I am not sure that it is only puritanism that makes us hesitate. There's a thing called boundaries--and conversations with one's own children about sex can easily transgress their boundaries, as well as our own.
62
I agree with you, but would like to add that the "boundaries" were set when not addressing their sexual beings as very young children. the boundaries are too high and steep if you only begin when they are teens, or even pree teens. if the comfort was built when there was no shame, as a toddler, then it would not be an uncomfortable boundary as they get older.
It would be better and probably more productive if there was a third party (not necessarily a person) involved in this rather than just parents. Sex education in school has to adhere to basic things but the subtleties, nuance and skills of good sex and the relationship/pleasure/equality aspect of this can be taught in ways that won't be as embarrassing as it would be for some mother (or worse, father) trying to explain the mechanics of good sex to a child.
But from my experience throughout life I've learned that for women the learning process is VERY uneven. Some figure it out early and other often don't until later after they've had a series of lousy experiences finally followed by self discovery or the luck of finding a caring and knowledgeable man. We should do better for all involved.
But from my experience throughout life I've learned that for women the learning process is VERY uneven. Some figure it out early and other often don't until later after they've had a series of lousy experiences finally followed by self discovery or the luck of finding a caring and knowledgeable man. We should do better for all involved.
2
As well as the excellent "Our Bodies, Ourselves" books -- I am sure every library has this. Even the outdated versions (not up to date on abortion law or latest methods of birth control) have basic sexual information in them that would enlighten any teenager.
2
There really is no way to have this conversation in a manner that does not reflect someone's bias.
Those who believe that sexuality is a part of humanity that requires no explicit "training" have been reluctant to treat it as a recreational activity; and, in so doing, their strong apprehension comes through.
On the other hand, the liberation (or libertine) group paints the lines somewhere between stasis and multiple female orgasms, describing love-making sessions as Holllywood dramas (queue the strings) in fantastic ways that inspire withering confidence.
And both agree that pornography is not the magic middle.
I am glad that we don't obsess about other human needs like food, but I suppose we come close. Sexuality has taken on such a central role in modern life, much to the horror of our "backward" Muslim neighbors, that it is literally striking a line between those in the world who seem to talk about nothing else and those who can only respond with a chador or abstinence speech.
We wanted to "free" women, and that we did. Now birth control is practically mandated for menstruating females, men are encouraged to pursue partners with a legal pad at the ready for evidencing consent, and prime-time television will toss in a fully gratuitous copulation scene before breaking for a mouthwash commercial.
We are a truly sad lot. If not pornography, why not?
"Fifty Shades of Grey" is a best-seller.
The truth has always lain in the middle. We have sadly lost that middle.
Those who believe that sexuality is a part of humanity that requires no explicit "training" have been reluctant to treat it as a recreational activity; and, in so doing, their strong apprehension comes through.
On the other hand, the liberation (or libertine) group paints the lines somewhere between stasis and multiple female orgasms, describing love-making sessions as Holllywood dramas (queue the strings) in fantastic ways that inspire withering confidence.
And both agree that pornography is not the magic middle.
I am glad that we don't obsess about other human needs like food, but I suppose we come close. Sexuality has taken on such a central role in modern life, much to the horror of our "backward" Muslim neighbors, that it is literally striking a line between those in the world who seem to talk about nothing else and those who can only respond with a chador or abstinence speech.
We wanted to "free" women, and that we did. Now birth control is practically mandated for menstruating females, men are encouraged to pursue partners with a legal pad at the ready for evidencing consent, and prime-time television will toss in a fully gratuitous copulation scene before breaking for a mouthwash commercial.
We are a truly sad lot. If not pornography, why not?
"Fifty Shades of Grey" is a best-seller.
The truth has always lain in the middle. We have sadly lost that middle.
5
The issues discussed here really are specific to American society, there are significant differences when comparing with Northern Europeans, for example, who generally have a much more mature, whose parents begin early on developing in their children a much more open mindset about the human body and sex as a means of exploring relationships and intimacy.
I recently read about an American actress who recounted that she early on decided to "save" her virginity for her future husband, whoever that "lucky" man would be. She met that man and they quickly married so the relationship could be consummated. They were divorced within a year, with a baby and the proverbial single mom the result.
This kind of behavior is very much a product of the abstinence culture of American evangelical conservatism and how the GOP has made this an integral part of their political ideology. The behavior reported on in this article is very much a product of the distinctive--and often dysfunctional--way Americans go about maturing into adulthood.
I recently read about an American actress who recounted that she early on decided to "save" her virginity for her future husband, whoever that "lucky" man would be. She met that man and they quickly married so the relationship could be consummated. They were divorced within a year, with a baby and the proverbial single mom the result.
This kind of behavior is very much a product of the abstinence culture of American evangelical conservatism and how the GOP has made this an integral part of their political ideology. The behavior reported on in this article is very much a product of the distinctive--and often dysfunctional--way Americans go about maturing into adulthood.
10
Media blatantly promote sex at every turn - from movies, TV, ads, internet - the gamut - especially in objectifying women. Yes, there are some wimpy parents out there, but you media guys try looking in the mirror.
Write about that.
Write about that.
4
Well then, how does somebody learn the "pure mechanics" of sexual intercourse or any of its deviations? Is it just in your blood and automatic? Are you looking at cartoons? Still pictures? Well made erotic movies? Pornography?
Growing up in Europe, erotic movies were your natural choice; very nice and well made.
Absent of erotic movies, pornography seems better than nothing; perhaps "Yahoo answer" or "YIK-YAK".
But it is very obvious that some sort of pictorial representation is a necessary tool to learn. After all, this is the way we learn physics and chemistry.
As our Puritan society does not provide these tools, the free market, supported by the first amendment, waives its invisible hand: It is called pornography. The adventurous can learn on their own.
Growing up in Europe, erotic movies were your natural choice; very nice and well made.
Absent of erotic movies, pornography seems better than nothing; perhaps "Yahoo answer" or "YIK-YAK".
But it is very obvious that some sort of pictorial representation is a necessary tool to learn. After all, this is the way we learn physics and chemistry.
As our Puritan society does not provide these tools, the free market, supported by the first amendment, waives its invisible hand: It is called pornography. The adventurous can learn on their own.
20
LIfe is an adventure, right? I don't need pix to see my way around anyone's body. Porn is just sales. Americans are really good at that.
3
Well said, jzu.
Porn is overwhelmingly made for men and shows women getting off every time from simply being penetrated vaginally and pounded. And then when the naive see this, both parties assume that this is all it takes and something is wrong with a woman who doesn't climax that way. I believe it was Freud who "gifted" us with the "vaginal orgasm" and installed the idea that a woman who didn't have them had something wrong with them that needed to be fixed. The truth will set all young people (all people) free.
9
Please don't make teachers responsible for sensible, progressive sex education. They're already target practice for every issue under the sun.
20
Teachers are not the issue. Telling the kiddies something outside of having a book tell it (and who really knows who wrote that book?) is indefensible. Whether it's Jews or Christians or Muslims or whomever. Hey! It's 2016 not 2,000 years ago! Just because some book says it doesn't make it somehow more real!
As a university nurse practitioner, I have seen all too often how the intrusion of pornography in young women's sexual experience has reduced their expectations that sex should be an authentic, intimate, and mutually fulfilling experience. Not only do they often expect to engage in degrading behavior, they compare their bodies with women in pornographic films and images, and are almost inevitably dissatisfied with their own. Female orgasm as depicted in pornographic films reinforces feelings of inadequacy when they are unable to achieve orgasm without interfering with male sexual pleasure.
170
I have ALWAYS made sure that my lovers had orgasms. Regardless of gender and what my job happened to be.
"degrading behavior" -- Let's please not forget that plenty of sensible women can and do enjoy such "degrading behavior" as you no doubt mean.
"compare their bodies with women in porn" -- so? Look, if a woman is going to feel insecure about her body, it is going to be because she is comparing herself to either her friends and/or Selena Gomez et. al. NO ONE wants to look like a porn star, the type you no doubt have in mind.
"...feelings of inadequacy...without interfering with male sexual pleasure" Why would female orgasm "interfere" with male orgasm? This assumes that the man has the power in the relationship, that his pleasure counts more than hers. But the reality is that women are just as likely to have the upper hand in her relationship as men are.
"compare their bodies with women in porn" -- so? Look, if a woman is going to feel insecure about her body, it is going to be because she is comparing herself to either her friends and/or Selena Gomez et. al. NO ONE wants to look like a porn star, the type you no doubt have in mind.
"...feelings of inadequacy...without interfering with male sexual pleasure" Why would female orgasm "interfere" with male orgasm? This assumes that the man has the power in the relationship, that his pleasure counts more than hers. But the reality is that women are just as likely to have the upper hand in her relationship as men are.
1
Show them the movies on Hegre Art, the 'massages' section. I think this kind of porn should be used for sex education.
1
Wow, too much to respond to thoroughly in one comment. So, a handful of reactions.
1. In that 2010 study, I suspect most of the girls were lying, or didn't realize what they were doing qualified as masturbation. (Just as girls can get involved in lesbian activity and characterize it as 'just fooling around' or whatever.)
2. There is one -and only one - virtue to abstinence education: it gives the asexuals and low-sex-drive contingent permission to abstain. Maybe it's because I came of age in the Sixties, when anyone who wasn't bunnying away was derided as repressed, puritanical, etc. At least heterosexually; though post-Stonewall the LGBT jumped on the same bandwagon. We still live in a sex-drenched society, in which babies' clothes proclaim 'I'm too sexy for my onesie'. I'm wary of Ms Orenstein proselytizing too much for pleasure and stigmatizing the girl who, even after being established as orgasm-capable, with considerate, caring, and flexible partners, just finds she doesn't like sex all that much. "What am I doing wrong?' your partner (whether he or she) asks plaintively. 'It's not you, it's me. This is messy and tiring, and I'd just rather read a book." (Believe it or not, not everyone enjoys orgasms.)
My fear is that Ms Orenstein, in her zeal, will introduce yet another way to fail, another norm to fall short of.
1. In that 2010 study, I suspect most of the girls were lying, or didn't realize what they were doing qualified as masturbation. (Just as girls can get involved in lesbian activity and characterize it as 'just fooling around' or whatever.)
2. There is one -and only one - virtue to abstinence education: it gives the asexuals and low-sex-drive contingent permission to abstain. Maybe it's because I came of age in the Sixties, when anyone who wasn't bunnying away was derided as repressed, puritanical, etc. At least heterosexually; though post-Stonewall the LGBT jumped on the same bandwagon. We still live in a sex-drenched society, in which babies' clothes proclaim 'I'm too sexy for my onesie'. I'm wary of Ms Orenstein proselytizing too much for pleasure and stigmatizing the girl who, even after being established as orgasm-capable, with considerate, caring, and flexible partners, just finds she doesn't like sex all that much. "What am I doing wrong?' your partner (whether he or she) asks plaintively. 'It's not you, it's me. This is messy and tiring, and I'd just rather read a book." (Believe it or not, not everyone enjoys orgasms.)
My fear is that Ms Orenstein, in her zeal, will introduce yet another way to fail, another norm to fall short of.
8
There are certainly asexual and non-sexual people around, as well as those who reject premarital sex on religious or moral grounds. The right to be as sexual as you want needs to include the right to refrain from sex -- without being ridiculed or nagged or shamed or called prudish or frigid or "abnormal". Just as the right to freedom of religious worship must include the right to have no religion at all.
And yes, some of the girls (maybe not most) are lying, or too embarrassed to admit what they do (or put a name to it) -- but then again, SO ARE THE BOYS. Just as sex and masturbation are shameful to some young women -- NOT doing those things makes boys feel they are wusses or less masculine, horny, sexual than their peers. So they exaggerate. The whole "soft science" fields of psychology, sociology, cultural anthropology, etc. are based heavily on self-reported "theories" like this -- just asking people questions -- which is interesting, but not "proof". Those brilliant scientists have not figured out that people will lie or exaggerate in interviews or on questionnaires.
And yes, some of the girls (maybe not most) are lying, or too embarrassed to admit what they do (or put a name to it) -- but then again, SO ARE THE BOYS. Just as sex and masturbation are shameful to some young women -- NOT doing those things makes boys feel they are wusses or less masculine, horny, sexual than their peers. So they exaggerate. The whole "soft science" fields of psychology, sociology, cultural anthropology, etc. are based heavily on self-reported "theories" like this -- just asking people questions -- which is interesting, but not "proof". Those brilliant scientists have not figured out that people will lie or exaggerate in interviews or on questionnaires.
2
Nothing. That's what I received at home about sex. Possibly even less than nothing. It just wasn't ever talked about. While Massachusetts in the 70s tried to give some science based sex-ed it didn't help much. I could have avoided a lot of painful lessons over the years (for both me and my partners) if it had been different.
As long as the Republican party and conservative Christians maintain some sway in our country don't look for much to change.
As long as the Republican party and conservative Christians maintain some sway in our country don't look for much to change.
42
I received so little sex ed that menarche was a 'Carrie White' moment; I literally didn't know what was happening and thought I was going to die. And this was in 1968! Supposedly the height of the era of free love and sexual openness. Sex - or more accurately, prurience - saturated the air, but accurate factual information, not so much. Our school offered a single half-hour of sex ed, segregated by sex, taught by the school nurse, who showed a promotional film provided by Kotex that was so abstract its diagrams of female plumbing might as well have been a roadmap of Washington DC. Little meaningful info on boys, or on sex, or on anything. We wrote questions anonymously on 3X5 index cards; mine, on homoseuality, went unanswered. I don't know what the boys got in their half-hour; I shudder to think.
It didn't do me much damage because, frankly, I wasn't that interested in sex. But a lot of us got our info from Dr Reuben's 1969 compendium of misinformation, 'Everything You Always Wanted to Know ...," by sharing old wives' tales, and by, uh, hands-on experimentation. And Playboy.
Nature abhors a vacuum. If you leave one, something will rush in to fill the space. And since today's kids live their entire lives online, online porn is what they'll turn to. And even if you offer counseling, they'll believe anyone other than their parents and teachers - because that's the way teenagers are: If adult authority figures say it, it's automatically wrong.
It didn't do me much damage because, frankly, I wasn't that interested in sex. But a lot of us got our info from Dr Reuben's 1969 compendium of misinformation, 'Everything You Always Wanted to Know ...," by sharing old wives' tales, and by, uh, hands-on experimentation. And Playboy.
Nature abhors a vacuum. If you leave one, something will rush in to fill the space. And since today's kids live their entire lives online, online porn is what they'll turn to. And even if you offer counseling, they'll believe anyone other than their parents and teachers - because that's the way teenagers are: If adult authority figures say it, it's automatically wrong.
4
I don't know how old you are, but really: were there no books at the library? magazine articles? you didn't have a doctor to ask? or a psychologist or therapist or counselor?
The basic mechanics of sex are not really that complicated. Part of the problem here is the degree to which lefty liberals overthink everything.
The basic mechanics of sex are not really that complicated. Part of the problem here is the degree to which lefty liberals overthink everything.
1
Finally someone is broaching the unpleasant truth that so many women, especially young women, will tolerate treatment from men in the bedroom that they wouldn't take in any other setting. But again. And again. Why is the ALWAYS talking to the girls. Who is telling the boys not to treat women as disposable objects?
282
Have you ever actually SEEN modern pornography? it's shockingly misogynistic, and treats women as disposable sex toys. It is devoid of emotion (let alone romance) and concentrates on close up images of genitals and "money shots".
It is also today available for free, 24/7 on any computer, phone or device over the internet. This is how our children are being educated about sex. It doesn't matter what your parents or teachers tell you about sex, reproduction, equality of women, birth control, or even BASIC SANITATION when you view porn which is so colorful and plays so much to your erotic impulses (well, at least if you are a young male).
It is worth noting that today, in 2016, there is almost NO porn or erotica aimed at women as consumers. It was one of those things talked about in the early 70s feminist Ms.-Magazine era -- and a lot of promise of female-centered erotica -- but just a few attempts here & there, never remotely as lucrative or popular as generic male-oriented porn. Gay porn -- now that has definitely become accepted. But female oriented erotica? Uh, no.
So in answer to your question "who teaches the boys to treat women as disposable objects": everything they see that is pornography, and ergo, everything that boys and men smirk and chuckle over, and think represents real sexuality (perhaps exaggerated, but most think it is real).
It is also today available for free, 24/7 on any computer, phone or device over the internet. This is how our children are being educated about sex. It doesn't matter what your parents or teachers tell you about sex, reproduction, equality of women, birth control, or even BASIC SANITATION when you view porn which is so colorful and plays so much to your erotic impulses (well, at least if you are a young male).
It is worth noting that today, in 2016, there is almost NO porn or erotica aimed at women as consumers. It was one of those things talked about in the early 70s feminist Ms.-Magazine era -- and a lot of promise of female-centered erotica -- but just a few attempts here & there, never remotely as lucrative or popular as generic male-oriented porn. Gay porn -- now that has definitely become accepted. But female oriented erotica? Uh, no.
So in answer to your question "who teaches the boys to treat women as disposable objects": everything they see that is pornography, and ergo, everything that boys and men smirk and chuckle over, and think represents real sexuality (perhaps exaggerated, but most think it is real).
7
I think there's a whole new generation of moms of boys taking up exactly this topic with their sons. I know I certainly am and I also know I'm not alone. Just a few months ago I went to a great gathering of moms who have sons my sons' age (10) and we met explicitly to discuss how to raise boys who are equipped to engage in respectful sexual relationships with girls and/or boys. I'm not saying it's easy for me, a born and bred New Englander, to have open, casual-seeming, and frequent conversations when I grew up with exactly the opposite (my CT high school had zero sex Ed), but it's crucial for my sons and my daughter that I succeed.
11
I hope my daughter has a roving curiosity, a capacity for surprise and delight, a relentless drive, a rich imagination and broad ambition, a career that is challenging and worth the challenge, a family that is weird, raucous, hilarious, and steadfast, a few loves that burn brightly out but leave warm marks, a final love, like her mother's and mine, that burns on the renewable stuff. I hope she never wants for too much but wants for enough to stay hungry; I hope she is honest, reasonable, and decent; I hope her sorrows and setbacks come seldom and far between but enough to teach her how to look and to listen for the sorrows and setbacks of others. I hope she has children if she wants them, a good dog if she doesn't, and a passport like George Costanza's wallet. I hope she reaches the highest height she wishes to climb and I hope it's really high. I hope she makes a home for herself, whether in a big old house or a rucksack ugly with the dirt of a hundred countries. I hope she is good to her friends, fair to her enemies, and has the right number of each. I hope she has a better jumpshot than her father and drives better than her mother. I hope she does great things, goes to great places, meets great people, reads great books, listens to great music, eats great food.
And I hope she has great sex. A whole great lot of it.
Only one of the above sounds weird. Every woman, and every one of us who's ever gone to bed with one, ought to wonder why.
And I hope she has great sex. A whole great lot of it.
Only one of the above sounds weird. Every woman, and every one of us who's ever gone to bed with one, ought to wonder why.
429
You are a beautiful man and your wife and daughter are very fortunate.
6
Can any of us not hope for that for our sons or daughters? Actually, I wonder how many adults have had the experience of mutual sensual 'discovery' sex with an enthusiastic partner. Anything less seems unworthy. I do admit that I do not know how to "teach" that.
7
well written!
2
Porn became sex ed when silly, non-working programs such as "Abstinence Only" and their ilk were shoved down our children throats as an alternative to actual sexual education. It is horrible here in Arizona, backwards at best, but I sudden to think of bible belt states or ignorant southern ones. I am all for not pushing promiscuity onto children but let's wake up...if the children do not receive actual knowledge about sex and EVERYTHING else that goes with it...Professor Pornography will happily show them the way. It makes my brain hurt.
63
Porn is no less popular in blue states that have sex education in the schools, than it is in red states that (presumably) teach abstinence education.
BTW: abstinence education doesn't (or shouldn't) be about ignorance of sex -- it should include all the particulars and facts about sexual reproduction. In fact, if it didn't, it wouldn't work because truly ignorant and naive young people wouldn't know if what they were doing was even sex, or if it had the potential to cause pregnancy or STDs. What true abstinence education would consist of is telling the facts, but ALSO teaching Judeo-Christian morality about saving sexuality for your husband or wife after marriage.
BTW: abstinence education doesn't (or shouldn't) be about ignorance of sex -- it should include all the particulars and facts about sexual reproduction. In fact, if it didn't, it wouldn't work because truly ignorant and naive young people wouldn't know if what they were doing was even sex, or if it had the potential to cause pregnancy or STDs. What true abstinence education would consist of is telling the facts, but ALSO teaching Judeo-Christian morality about saving sexuality for your husband or wife after marriage.
1
My mom was always very forthright in discussing sex with us kids and she never made it seem like a bad thing. However, she also taught us to believe very strongly in right and wrong, and to fear the harm we might do to others and ourselves if we were careless.
The standard liberal viewpoint on sex seems to capture the first part, while the conservative view captures the second. But you rarely see the two combined. That's a shame. And I have to acknowledge it's a tricky balancing act.
The standard liberal viewpoint on sex seems to capture the first part, while the conservative view captures the second. But you rarely see the two combined. That's a shame. And I have to acknowledge it's a tricky balancing act.
70
This is an extremely important and well-written essay. The only thing I would add is that boys need realistic and unpuritanical sex education as much as girls do, if not more.
232
That we permit our SONS to be educated about sex by internet porn is every bit as bad for them -- for girls -- and for society -- as whatever we do or don't do to young women.
8
In case you didn't notice, this is not a column about porn. It's a column about sex education, and the need for it. Porn got into the headline only because the writer of this column was pointing out how sad it is that porn is, for many young people in this country, the only place they can turn to for any information at all about sexuality. Their sexuality. Which they are entitled to, but about which they are to a great extent kept ignorant. In the old days, we went to the public library to learn what Mom and Dad wouldn't tell us about. Now the young'uns go to the Internet, and there's more porn available there than there is meaningful sex education.
This piece is by a (presumably straight) woman with a (presumably straight) daughter. The imbalance between what girls and boys are taught, and between what is (or what they believe is) expected of them, is important to discuss and to explore. I notice, however, that nothing in this piece directly relates to the lives of LGBTQ youth. I'm not blaming the author for this. The author wrote what was on her mind, what she had to talk about. I'm merely pointing out that there is a whole lot more stuff to be talked about, and a whole lot more young people who are entitled to be addressed frankly.
I want to add, as a final note, my belief that LGBTQ youth are less likely to learn about their own LGBTQ sexuality from their parents than they are to learn about it from adults they may encounter. For what it's worth.
This piece is by a (presumably straight) woman with a (presumably straight) daughter. The imbalance between what girls and boys are taught, and between what is (or what they believe is) expected of them, is important to discuss and to explore. I notice, however, that nothing in this piece directly relates to the lives of LGBTQ youth. I'm not blaming the author for this. The author wrote what was on her mind, what she had to talk about. I'm merely pointing out that there is a whole lot more stuff to be talked about, and a whole lot more young people who are entitled to be addressed frankly.
I want to add, as a final note, my belief that LGBTQ youth are less likely to learn about their own LGBTQ sexuality from their parents than they are to learn about it from adults they may encounter. For what it's worth.
23
In the age of the internet, a college senior can't find good information about sex? If you google "women's sexual pleasure and health" you get 32 million results in .65 seconds. Beyond that, popular women's magazines like Cosmopolitan (available online) are full of straight talk on sex, love and intimacy. I find the subtle assertion that abstinence programs result in people going to porn for information to be very dubious. Communication about sex is a very deep culture thing. The abstinence programs are more a symptom and not underlying cause of our modest dysfunctions. We are a million miles ahead of the Arabs but it's true that the scandinavian culture probably leads to healthier happier sex lives.
31
The Dutch are not Scandinavians
4
I was a young girl in the late 1960s. My parents were not prudes -- they were pro-abortion rights, and my dad subscribed to Playboy. But like many parents, they were too shy or embarrassed to talk about sex.
The kind of sex ed we had in schools in that era was the birds & bees -- literally. Health class had slides which told of the simplest mechanics of reproductive sex -- but actually managed to make it sound creepy and intimidating. (Maybe that was the point; hard to say.) All the instructors acted MORE embarrassed and awkward then our parents did.
But I was a very pragmatic child. If I needed to know something, I went to the public library. And the library had all kinds of practical, literal and factual books about sex, reproduction and yes, even romance. When I was 10, I think I probably thought storks brought babies; by the time I was 12, I knew all the facts and was the one my peers asked questions of (though I was most definitely a virgin -- a nerdy one, to boot).
Are the libraries all empty? The internet doesn't have factual information sites -- medical sites -- feminist sites? It isn't just Cosmo, either, that has practical articles about sexuality -- it is magazines like Seventeen (which despite the name, is NOT aimed at high school seniors but at girls as young as 11 and 12).
The problem then and now is that no matter how much you give a kid facts -- information -- the nuts & bolts of reproduction -- they REALLY learn from their peers.
The kind of sex ed we had in schools in that era was the birds & bees -- literally. Health class had slides which told of the simplest mechanics of reproductive sex -- but actually managed to make it sound creepy and intimidating. (Maybe that was the point; hard to say.) All the instructors acted MORE embarrassed and awkward then our parents did.
But I was a very pragmatic child. If I needed to know something, I went to the public library. And the library had all kinds of practical, literal and factual books about sex, reproduction and yes, even romance. When I was 10, I think I probably thought storks brought babies; by the time I was 12, I knew all the facts and was the one my peers asked questions of (though I was most definitely a virgin -- a nerdy one, to boot).
Are the libraries all empty? The internet doesn't have factual information sites -- medical sites -- feminist sites? It isn't just Cosmo, either, that has practical articles about sexuality -- it is magazines like Seventeen (which despite the name, is NOT aimed at high school seniors but at girls as young as 11 and 12).
The problem then and now is that no matter how much you give a kid facts -- information -- the nuts & bolts of reproduction -- they REALLY learn from their peers.
3
In addition to young people not receiving complete information about all aspects of sexuality from their teachers, parents and health care providers, I attribute a couple of other trends with contributing to young women's lack of sexual fulfillment. One, is the pervasiveness through easy internet access of not just porn but its most brutal ugly forms which a lot of young men and women have been exposed to at early ages before they were capable of understanding how dehumanizing the porn actually is. Much of this porn shows women being degraded and serving the needs and whims of the males.These same young people then believe that porn actually depicts how actual people should act and begin to imitate and normalize these behaviors. Most of the behaviors are male centered thus depriving young women of the pleasure they should be experiencing were it not for the exposure to the deviant porn. Second, somehow males have become the gate keepers to sex whereas before it was the female. On college campuses all over, women students are groveling over a small percentage of preferred men--athletes and fraternity members--when before it was the men who competed for the attention of women. My prescription is for young women to be taught to be more selective and to be taught that there is absolutely no reason to engage in sex with someone unless its mutually pleasurable.
111
This is very true, and it applies to all ages -- not just teenagers -- I see it in ADULT women who are dating. They have come to believe if they do emulate the behaviors in pornography, that THEY are lacking somehow -- defective, prudish, inhibited -- and they will fail to satisfy their boyfriends (or husbands), and they'd better "get with the program".
The men see the kind of demeaning sex often represented in porn -- faceless, unemotional, based often on degradation and dehumanization -- and the female porn actresses, who scream with ecstatic pleasure at acts that real women often don't like or don't enjoy. And the videos normalize this. So the men (and boys) ALSO internalize the idea that "this is normal...this is what normal women want. If I DO NOT do this, or ask for it, I won't seem masculine enough. And I am entitled to it -- all the videos show it. It MUST BE SO."
That's a perfect storm for people who don't communicate, don't understand what the other wants (or why) -- and who end up frustrating and even hurting one another.
You are very right about men becoming the gatekeepers to sex, at least on campus and in some big urban cities. WHY??? because women now outnumber men there. What a change from grandma's era, when WOMEN were the gatekeepers of sex! and what a raw deal for today's young women. Now they do have to grovel, trading sex for the slightest of attentions. But it's not just for athletes & frat boys, I'm afraid. Even the nerdiest guys get this privilege.
The men see the kind of demeaning sex often represented in porn -- faceless, unemotional, based often on degradation and dehumanization -- and the female porn actresses, who scream with ecstatic pleasure at acts that real women often don't like or don't enjoy. And the videos normalize this. So the men (and boys) ALSO internalize the idea that "this is normal...this is what normal women want. If I DO NOT do this, or ask for it, I won't seem masculine enough. And I am entitled to it -- all the videos show it. It MUST BE SO."
That's a perfect storm for people who don't communicate, don't understand what the other wants (or why) -- and who end up frustrating and even hurting one another.
You are very right about men becoming the gatekeepers to sex, at least on campus and in some big urban cities. WHY??? because women now outnumber men there. What a change from grandma's era, when WOMEN were the gatekeepers of sex! and what a raw deal for today's young women. Now they do have to grovel, trading sex for the slightest of attentions. But it's not just for athletes & frat boys, I'm afraid. Even the nerdiest guys get this privilege.
6
Not much is going to change in this country re: sex ed until parents both recognize their own discomfort with the subject as well as the necessity for *some* third party to stand in for (misinformed) peers and...pornography. If it hasn't been written already, this is an area ripe for a book, or a video series, detailing the source(s) of that peculiarly American discomfort (personally, I was lucky enough to have European parents), while telling American parents how to talk to their kids about sex in an 'American way'. Of course, we could let schools do that job, as other countries do. But when's the last time this country did anything because someone else did it first? Until then, peers and porn are going to be the default, to our social detriment.
13
As the mother of a daughter, I am kept up at night thinking about how she will have to navigate this pornographic landscape and the boys who have grown up believing that porn is sex. I am heartened by the fact that I can help her through honest dialogue. I just hope I am able to overcome my own fears and be there for her in a way that is helpful and supportive.
47
“There’s a lot of problems with porn,” she wrote. “But it is kind of nice to be able to use it to gain some knowledge of sex.”
actually, there is quite a lot of good porn, and bad porn (both of which are produced and consumed overwhelmingly by males). kind of like a lot of good movies and probably more bad movies (mostly produced by males but consumed by both males and females depending on the subject matter).
more importantly, there are plenty of free and scientifically valid educational videos available on the internet that describe female and male anatomy, menstrual cycles, pregnancy, birth, birth control, orgasms and sexual positions--which those in older generations may be unaware of.
welcome to the 21st century.
actually, there is quite a lot of good porn, and bad porn (both of which are produced and consumed overwhelmingly by males). kind of like a lot of good movies and probably more bad movies (mostly produced by males but consumed by both males and females depending on the subject matter).
more importantly, there are plenty of free and scientifically valid educational videos available on the internet that describe female and male anatomy, menstrual cycles, pregnancy, birth, birth control, orgasms and sexual positions--which those in older generations may be unaware of.
welcome to the 21st century.
16
Good porn is called 'erotica', I think. But even aside from that, what sex ed lacks, and what porn does not supply, is a realistic view of sex. In porn, all consensual sex is a sky-opening experience, or is expected to be.
But in real life there is bad sex. Not molestation, rape, etc., but just ... bad sex. Or mediocre sex. Sex that isn't even really enjoyable, much less soul-enhancing. Sex you put up with so as not to hurt your partner's feelings. Sex that, for whatever reason, is nothing-good-on-TV or grit-teeth-and-get-it-over-with.
And by contrast, some of the best sex you have may be with a total stranger. The notion that sex, to be any good, must involve deep emotional intimacy, and that no-strings recreational sex is necessarily degrading and squalid for a woman, has, I suspect, left a great many women frustrated, sad, and feeling dirty or inadequate.
Sex ed should encompass the full range of experience. Just as there will be elevator music, mediocre movies, and blah meals, there will be meh sex. You won't see it in porn or in women's empowerment books. 'I can't recall who said it, I know I never read it,' said Irving Berlin's Annie Oakley, 'I only know they tell me that love is grand'. Well, you never read it, and no one will tell you, but sometimes it's just better than the proverbial sharp stick in the eye, and when it isn't, it's not necessarily anyone's fault. And though love may be grand, sometimes sex is better in its absence.
But in real life there is bad sex. Not molestation, rape, etc., but just ... bad sex. Or mediocre sex. Sex that isn't even really enjoyable, much less soul-enhancing. Sex you put up with so as not to hurt your partner's feelings. Sex that, for whatever reason, is nothing-good-on-TV or grit-teeth-and-get-it-over-with.
And by contrast, some of the best sex you have may be with a total stranger. The notion that sex, to be any good, must involve deep emotional intimacy, and that no-strings recreational sex is necessarily degrading and squalid for a woman, has, I suspect, left a great many women frustrated, sad, and feeling dirty or inadequate.
Sex ed should encompass the full range of experience. Just as there will be elevator music, mediocre movies, and blah meals, there will be meh sex. You won't see it in porn or in women's empowerment books. 'I can't recall who said it, I know I never read it,' said Irving Berlin's Annie Oakley, 'I only know they tell me that love is grand'. Well, you never read it, and no one will tell you, but sometimes it's just better than the proverbial sharp stick in the eye, and when it isn't, it's not necessarily anyone's fault. And though love may be grand, sometimes sex is better in its absence.
51
When you say, "there is quite a bit of good porn," good for whom? Of the most popular porn movies, at least 85% depict aggression (name-calling, hitting, humiliation, inflicting pain, etc.). Of these movies, 95% of this aggression is directed toward women. The majority of porn depicts women as targets of aggression.
6
There has been a lot of reportage lately about University prosecutions and expulsions for non-consensual sexual relations.
I believe the root of this problem is three pronged.
1. Porn, which gives young males unrealistic expectations in their relations with females.
2. Crapulent drinking practices.
3. No serious or even casual dating.
I could not tell youngsters or their elders what to do about ubiquitous porn, or their relationship with alcohol.
I would recommend the dating process as a good thing, for romance, for friendship and for society. It makes a young man less coarse and more couth. It affords at least a patina of manners. It forces you to consider other points of view. It forces you to decide what you really want out of life. There should be a book or a movement which lays the ground rules for dating in an epoch in which getting lucky is just a scroll away.
Dating has been usurped by the internet and mobile devices. In the post-industrial, digital, sharing economy, our social relations reflect the means of production - which is fast and gaudy.
Now it's either a Dinah-Moe Humm situation, where young folk strip off and get down to it. Or group socializing in which a lot of digital photos are taken of over-priced meals for bragging rights.
Dating does not have to be some romantic, grand event. It can be just having coffee and talking. Dutch. Make date, make a plan, do something, talk.
I believe the root of this problem is three pronged.
1. Porn, which gives young males unrealistic expectations in their relations with females.
2. Crapulent drinking practices.
3. No serious or even casual dating.
I could not tell youngsters or their elders what to do about ubiquitous porn, or their relationship with alcohol.
I would recommend the dating process as a good thing, for romance, for friendship and for society. It makes a young man less coarse and more couth. It affords at least a patina of manners. It forces you to consider other points of view. It forces you to decide what you really want out of life. There should be a book or a movement which lays the ground rules for dating in an epoch in which getting lucky is just a scroll away.
Dating has been usurped by the internet and mobile devices. In the post-industrial, digital, sharing economy, our social relations reflect the means of production - which is fast and gaudy.
Now it's either a Dinah-Moe Humm situation, where young folk strip off and get down to it. Or group socializing in which a lot of digital photos are taken of over-priced meals for bragging rights.
Dating does not have to be some romantic, grand event. It can be just having coffee and talking. Dutch. Make date, make a plan, do something, talk.
76
Read "Suburban Mom" comment above, and re-think your position. Boys' pathological view of sex starts long before drinking and dating.
3
teenagers want one thing
and thats th reason theres still a human race despite all reasonable arguments against continuing it
and thats th reason theres still a human race despite all reasonable arguments against continuing it
In the cohort of my oldest child, now 24, the boys were virtually all watching and talking about Internet porn by the end of fourth grade. (How do I know? Because that child has always told me everything. Including things I've hated hearing.)
That same year, three seventh grade boys taunted her and another nine year old girl on the school bus about "being ready to give b*** j*** soon." This was a bus to a private day school in an affluent community, but I'm guessing that things were little better by then in any type of school.
That night, I talked to my nine year old daughter about oral sex and pressure from boys. We role played ways to handle pressure.
Repeat: she was NINE EARS OLD at the time.
Fast forward to fall of ninth grade: for the first time, she was subjected to strong pressure to perform oral sex on a boy because "it's no big deal." It was by no means the last time.
This is the territory our kids are negotiating now. We MUST talk to them: early, often and frankly. It's not easy, but it's absolutely critical today.
That same year, three seventh grade boys taunted her and another nine year old girl on the school bus about "being ready to give b*** j*** soon." This was a bus to a private day school in an affluent community, but I'm guessing that things were little better by then in any type of school.
That night, I talked to my nine year old daughter about oral sex and pressure from boys. We role played ways to handle pressure.
Repeat: she was NINE EARS OLD at the time.
Fast forward to fall of ninth grade: for the first time, she was subjected to strong pressure to perform oral sex on a boy because "it's no big deal." It was by no means the last time.
This is the territory our kids are negotiating now. We MUST talk to them: early, often and frankly. It's not easy, but it's absolutely critical today.
282
It's appalling that your daughter had to face this at nine, but good for you for turning it into a lesson of empowerment for her, one of standing up for herself when pressured (and hopefully also, when she is older, that she has a right to say YES as well as NO without being deemed a "slut"). We also need to teach our boy children that desire for sex is normal but expectations that women exist to service that need for them is NOT, and that pressuring or taunting girls about sex will not be tolerated.
Also, a good info resource for teens: http://www.scarleteen.com/
Also, a good info resource for teens: http://www.scarleteen.com/
6
The facts brought forth in the above comments represent a sad, sad reality in America. Pornography has had a tremendous impact in reshaping our society in its image, and where there is a vacuum of knowledge, information and established understandings of morality in sexual practices (like respect for the other person), it has rushed in to fill in the blanks.
I am not certain when I first learned the term "oral sex", but I am certain it was not in the 5th, 6th or 7th grade. Maybe not even in high school, though I do remember feeling confused about what a b.j. might be. Those days of comparative innocence seem now like 100 yrs. ago, though there were always, even when I was in high school, some students who were much more advanced in such matters.
I am not certain when I first learned the term "oral sex", but I am certain it was not in the 5th, 6th or 7th grade. Maybe not even in high school, though I do remember feeling confused about what a b.j. might be. Those days of comparative innocence seem now like 100 yrs. ago, though there were always, even when I was in high school, some students who were much more advanced in such matters.
6
If anything, this problem is worse in affluent communities than even poor or rural areas. WHY? because kids are more likely to have high speed internet at home -- a laptop of their own, in their bedroom -- a smartphone (yes, even at 9!) that can access the internet -- a level of sophistication that poor/rural kids may not have (books, magazines, videos around the house -- parents who watch sophisticated movies with adult themes, that are not porn but which present sexual situations).
Most of all though: the affluent kid in the exurbs or urban hipster area is likely raised with no religion at all -- no overarching moral values, no set of right or wrong whatsoever beyond aphorisms like "be nice to everyone" or "don't say anything politically incorrect".
In that moral vacuum, there is no reason at all not to have oral sex at age 9. What reason would there be? Sex is normal. You can't (usually) get pregnant at age 9. Children have sexual feelings, and the right to express those feelings, so say liberals. Anything less would be IMPOSING YOUR OWN MORALITY on them.
Also: the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. If a child has divorced parents who are dating, they see behaviors and pick up on details about sex -- that the parent may think they are being discreet about but "little pitchers have big ears".
Most of all though: the affluent kid in the exurbs or urban hipster area is likely raised with no religion at all -- no overarching moral values, no set of right or wrong whatsoever beyond aphorisms like "be nice to everyone" or "don't say anything politically incorrect".
In that moral vacuum, there is no reason at all not to have oral sex at age 9. What reason would there be? Sex is normal. You can't (usually) get pregnant at age 9. Children have sexual feelings, and the right to express those feelings, so say liberals. Anything less would be IMPOSING YOUR OWN MORALITY on them.
Also: the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. If a child has divorced parents who are dating, they see behaviors and pick up on details about sex -- that the parent may think they are being discreet about but "little pitchers have big ears".
5
I could not agree more to the content of the article - yet, what I wanted to read - and was left unanswered - was precisely how to talk about kids/pre-adolescents about sex? I would have wanted to read the conversation with your daughter, as it unfolded.
100
The entire last third of the article is exactly about how to go about talking to teens about sex, beginning with the Dutch example. It's an op-ed, not a manual (or even an article), and she still does a good job of looking at alternatives.
2
The recommendations in the article seem to have more to do with political correctness than the actual biology of human sexuality. Consideration and sensitivity of the kind taught by the Dutch is no doubt ideal, but I fear we'd see instead nonsense that leaves boys and girls with unrealistic beliefs to the effect that the average woman has the same kind of sex drive and pleasure response as the average man.
To a great degree, the teens mentioned in the article are wiser than the author, in that they understand both intuitively and empirically that in our species, sexuality has evolved to bind the male to the female, and that this is accomplished in large part through asymmetry of drive and pleasure response -- the boy is tormented by desire, the girl, on average less eager and less fulfilled, serves as gatekeeper. Both partners in a relationship should attempt to maximize the other's pleasure contingent with responsible behaviors such as commitment, but should recognize that complete symmetry owes more to political correctness than to scientific reality and so is unlikely to be achieved.
To a great degree, the teens mentioned in the article are wiser than the author, in that they understand both intuitively and empirically that in our species, sexuality has evolved to bind the male to the female, and that this is accomplished in large part through asymmetry of drive and pleasure response -- the boy is tormented by desire, the girl, on average less eager and less fulfilled, serves as gatekeeper. Both partners in a relationship should attempt to maximize the other's pleasure contingent with responsible behaviors such as commitment, but should recognize that complete symmetry owes more to political correctness than to scientific reality and so is unlikely to be achieved.
17
Josh Hill,
The male teenager sex drive might be more obvious, and certainly is more well known, but as a female I want to tell you that my raging hormones were a source of constant frustration until I finally figured out what conditions would lead to a climax. (And the fact that I was nearly 30 before this happened says volumes about the lack of information available to women.)
Your comment is a prime example of just why young people need more information about the female sex drive. There is absolutely no reason why a climax is expected for a male, but females are left wanting. And this is not political correctness, it is having respect for a partner's desires and needs. In the responsible committed relationship you also mention, such respect is vital.
The male teenager sex drive might be more obvious, and certainly is more well known, but as a female I want to tell you that my raging hormones were a source of constant frustration until I finally figured out what conditions would lead to a climax. (And the fact that I was nearly 30 before this happened says volumes about the lack of information available to women.)
Your comment is a prime example of just why young people need more information about the female sex drive. There is absolutely no reason why a climax is expected for a male, but females are left wanting. And this is not political correctness, it is having respect for a partner's desires and needs. In the responsible committed relationship you also mention, such respect is vital.
27
spoken (written) exactly as expected - from a male viewpoint.
21
You clearly have learned of sex through porn. The idea that women have less of a sex drive or less of a pleasure response is a myth, perpetuated by porn.
24
An interesting and important article. Yet the title of it is misleading and sensational. If even the media who want to publish sensible articles about sex feel they have to ramp up the hype around the issue, we still have a long way to go.
10
Gender roles and society's attitudes toward sex evolved during the millions of years preceding reliable birth control. They are thus hopelessly outmoded but so deeply ingrained as to be passed from generation to generation entirely below the level of conscious thought. The situation works similarly to racism. People if good will want to rise above this nonsense, but cultural norms transmitted below the level of conscious awareness make it difficult. There is hope, of course. It just takes mustering the courage to question one's own assumptions.
12
Those who are responsible enough to employ reliable birth control will leave fewer descendants than those who are irresponsible. Birth control selects for the genes and cultural practices that manifest as irresponsibility.
2
Everyman --
Are you then arguing for eugenics?
Are you then arguing for eugenics?
3
This is what happen when the ignorant political party and its people decide their belief systems determine the health and development of the future generations.
Ignorance begets ignorance. There are many kinds of porn. Sex ed is becoming a hit or miss. But mostly it objectifies one of the most important development of being human - ironically in the name of God. Pretty sad!
Ignorance begets ignorance. There are many kinds of porn. Sex ed is becoming a hit or miss. But mostly it objectifies one of the most important development of being human - ironically in the name of God. Pretty sad!
129
Bos - What's "pretty sad" is that in your world there is "the ignorant political party and its people" and then there is what, enlightenment for the rest? Sounds to me like systemic bigotry. A great way to build tolerance and cooperation.
3
which ignorant party? there are 2 of them. the one in the white house has decided that college students should be expelled from school for consensual sex, including cases where there is actual text-message evidence of consent before and after, based on discredited sexual assault statistics that include someone brushing up against you, and someone talking you into doing something you didn't want to do, as rape.
2
I'm all for good sex ed in the classroom. But my mother explained to me, at the age of 10, what menstruation was and why it occurred, and what intercourse was, and how that could result in pregnancy. She didn't go into foreplay, I found out about that on my own, and it was a pleasure.
I do not understand why parents find sex difficult to talk about with their kids. It's something almost everyone engages in and enjoys. The simple biological mechanics are not all that complicated - it's not like trying to teach your child quadratic equations. I suppose parents are ashamed when they talk about sex, so that's why they avoid it. But, again, I do not understand why. It's normal, it's natural, it's something we human mammals do. Like eating, breathing, and talking to each other.
Maybe they're uncomfortable talking about love, affection, self-respect, respect for others, and the concept of pleasure for its own sake being OK when you're with a willing, of-age partner who's able to give consent (e.g. not dead drunk, not mentally incompetent) and has expressly given it?
Kids can learn about sex at school, but I'd love to see more parents able to have these conversations with their kids, in part because it would make sex seem more like what it really is - just another part of a normal, happy life.
I do not understand why parents find sex difficult to talk about with their kids. It's something almost everyone engages in and enjoys. The simple biological mechanics are not all that complicated - it's not like trying to teach your child quadratic equations. I suppose parents are ashamed when they talk about sex, so that's why they avoid it. But, again, I do not understand why. It's normal, it's natural, it's something we human mammals do. Like eating, breathing, and talking to each other.
Maybe they're uncomfortable talking about love, affection, self-respect, respect for others, and the concept of pleasure for its own sake being OK when you're with a willing, of-age partner who's able to give consent (e.g. not dead drunk, not mentally incompetent) and has expressly given it?
Kids can learn about sex at school, but I'd love to see more parents able to have these conversations with their kids, in part because it would make sex seem more like what it really is - just another part of a normal, happy life.
4
How to tell your kids that sex,that is the physical aspects of it can be the most intense pleasure, or the most painful depending on who and how it is done with.
The problem being if it is good experience you do not want to stop, and if it is not you will resist it for a long time. And to go along with that the emotional attachment the develops between couples, and the anger and resentment that comes when one of them wants to stop. The psychology of sex is just as addictive as the physical is.
Porn is just an example of what can be done physically, but it does not convey the emotions involved, and emotions are the driving force behind mans/womans behavior in life. It takes practice and experience, but the great number of young people do not want a partner that is experienced, they have the belief that experience means lose morals.
The best partners are ones that know what they like and how to achieve it, and that takes more than a raunchy film. Good love stories help, but they can foster unrealistic expectations. too. When I was in the military the most sexually repressed men I observed, were from New England, I think it was mostly due to religion.
The problem being if it is good experience you do not want to stop, and if it is not you will resist it for a long time. And to go along with that the emotional attachment the develops between couples, and the anger and resentment that comes when one of them wants to stop. The psychology of sex is just as addictive as the physical is.
Porn is just an example of what can be done physically, but it does not convey the emotions involved, and emotions are the driving force behind mans/womans behavior in life. It takes practice and experience, but the great number of young people do not want a partner that is experienced, they have the belief that experience means lose morals.
The best partners are ones that know what they like and how to achieve it, and that takes more than a raunchy film. Good love stories help, but they can foster unrealistic expectations. too. When I was in the military the most sexually repressed men I observed, were from New England, I think it was mostly due to religion.
22
The last time the Sunday Opinion pieces had comments sections shut down like this, I believe we’d just suffered some rare Chinese avian-vectored flu that was decimating moderators – one hopes that they’re okay and that this is a temporary lapse. When one is offered only porn and Kristof’s tales of the travails of women with fistulas, it’s a boring Saturday night.
I wouldn’t hold my breath that American parents will become sufficiently comfortable with the subject anytime soon to candidly impart to children the joys and responsibilities of sex, and certainly not more than the Dutch – who are good examples for comparison because the Dutch are relatively hung-up Euros and by comparison even to them we’re pretty hopeless. And you won’t find parents much more open in blue Massachusetts than in red Mississippi.
The answer is that porn always WAS Sex Ed in America. I vaguely remember the Sex Ed classes of more than 45 years ago, for me in junior high; and they were pretty pathetic – they sound as basic and functional as those described as being typical today, although I imagine today’s likely are more graphic. Americans ALWAYS have learned about the human aspects of sex through trial and error and by illicit exploitative content; and as most people aren’t hyper-bright, most learned imperfectly. But we’ve always had this puritanical streak when it came to sex that made development of an ease in communicating about it difficult.
Imagine being jealous of the Dutch, of all people.
I wouldn’t hold my breath that American parents will become sufficiently comfortable with the subject anytime soon to candidly impart to children the joys and responsibilities of sex, and certainly not more than the Dutch – who are good examples for comparison because the Dutch are relatively hung-up Euros and by comparison even to them we’re pretty hopeless. And you won’t find parents much more open in blue Massachusetts than in red Mississippi.
The answer is that porn always WAS Sex Ed in America. I vaguely remember the Sex Ed classes of more than 45 years ago, for me in junior high; and they were pretty pathetic – they sound as basic and functional as those described as being typical today, although I imagine today’s likely are more graphic. Americans ALWAYS have learned about the human aspects of sex through trial and error and by illicit exploitative content; and as most people aren’t hyper-bright, most learned imperfectly. But we’ve always had this puritanical streak when it came to sex that made development of an ease in communicating about it difficult.
Imagine being jealous of the Dutch, of all people.
30
Re your first paragraph -- "boring" why? Because both pieces center on "women's issues" perhaps?
Second point: it's possible to get through a Saturday night living life rather than "commentating."
Third point: I think you are wrong re Massachusetts versus Missisissippi. Take a look at their respective teen pregnancy rates.
Second point: it's possible to get through a Saturday night living life rather than "commentating."
Third point: I think you are wrong re Massachusetts versus Missisissippi. Take a look at their respective teen pregnancy rates.
48
If you read well, your children should be jealous of the dutch. They miss out on a lot by "playing porn". Especially the girls. Don't they know their way to the library? Literature about sex offers way more than empty porn.
And apart from love&sex, any american could be very well jealous - as the Netherlands offers its citizens much more. Affordable/free education for everyone, healthcare for everybody which includes the most expensive medication, a minimal living wage, small gap between rich and poor in a rich country and the citizens are among the happiest of the world! And everyone has got a (cargo-)bike ;-)
(Thankfully you can now vote for a candidate that offers that too... Bernie)
And apart from love&sex, any american could be very well jealous - as the Netherlands offers its citizens much more. Affordable/free education for everyone, healthcare for everybody which includes the most expensive medication, a minimal living wage, small gap between rich and poor in a rich country and the citizens are among the happiest of the world! And everyone has got a (cargo-)bike ;-)
(Thankfully you can now vote for a candidate that offers that too... Bernie)
13
My problem with pornography is mainly one of aesthetics. Presumably, all participants are willing, but what do I know? From what I've seen, porn has a derivative, i.e., very low, artistic quality and artlessness is not sexy.
Of course, I feel exactly the same way about TeeVee.
Porn is *not* educational.
Teach the average man and woman how to have thirty orgasms per day and I'll be impressed.
Meanwhile, not...just, not.
Of course, I feel exactly the same way about TeeVee.
Porn is *not* educational.
Teach the average man and woman how to have thirty orgasms per day and I'll be impressed.
Meanwhile, not...just, not.
17
I think People like Da Vinci and Raffael make Nudity more artful.
The Borgias Payne them very well.
Nudity in Art is more Erotical than in Television.
The Borgias Payne them very well.
Nudity in Art is more Erotical than in Television.
1
FWIW - an apparent effort to improve the aesthetics of porn may have occurred during the "Golden Age of Porn" in the United States (mostly, 1969 - 1984) ( see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Age_of_Porn ) - seemingly inaugurated by the 1969 release of "Blue Movie" by American artist Andy Warhol, and resulting in the phenomenon of "Porno Chic" in which adult erotic films were just beginning to be widely released, publicly discussed by celebrities (like Johnny Carson and Bob Hope) and taken seriously by film critics (like Roger Ebert) - the 1976 film "The Opening of Misty Beethoven," directed by Radley Metzger, based on the play "Pygmalion" by George Bernard Shaw (and its derivative, "My Fair Lady"), has been considered, by award-winning author Toni Bentley, the "crown jewel" of the "Golden Age" - more recently, in 1996, "Zazel", a highly regarded award-winning adult erotic film by Dutch fashion photographer Philip Mond may be considered sufficiently aesthetic to merit exhibition (appropriately of course) in a high-quality art museum! - in any case - hope some of this helps in some way - Enjoy! :)
Dr. Dennis Bogdan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Drbogdan
Dr. Dennis Bogdan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Drbogdan