>>Previously, he had assumed that girls have second-rate minds, and that educated women have loose morals.>>
And it takes a western education to correct that? Whatever happened to the power of personal observation and logic?
And it takes a western education to correct that? Whatever happened to the power of personal observation and logic?
19
Thank you, Kristof, for a reminder that we need not be our past.
Thank you, Rafi, for taking this insidious animosity head-on. Godspeed to you.
Thank you, Rafi, for taking this insidious animosity head-on. Godspeed to you.
23
Do you have any friends who are former Jewish extremist, former Hindu extremist, former Buddhist extremist, former Christian extremist, former Sikh extremist or former Mormon extremist or former Shinto exremist ?
The Pashtun are a 42% ethnic plurality in Afghanistan, But most of the 50 million Pashtun live in Pakistan where they are a 15% minority. There is no nation state with a Pashtun majority. While the Taliban is all Pashtun, not all Pashtun are Taliban. The Pashtun are ethnically related to Persians. America supported dictators in Pakistan. Pakistan has nuclear weapons and a military focused on Hindu majority India and it's nuclear weapons and military.
There are 74 million Tamil, 35 million Kurds and 12.5 million Palestinians seeking a civil secular plural egalitarian democratic nation state of their own.
Neither Jim Jones nor David Koresh nor Tim McVeigh nor Jerad/Amanda Miller nor Eric Frein nor Eric Rudolph nor Cliven Bundy nor Dylann Roof nor Eric Lanza nor Jerad Loughner nor James Holmes were Muslim extremists.
The Pashtun are a 42% ethnic plurality in Afghanistan, But most of the 50 million Pashtun live in Pakistan where they are a 15% minority. There is no nation state with a Pashtun majority. While the Taliban is all Pashtun, not all Pashtun are Taliban. The Pashtun are ethnically related to Persians. America supported dictators in Pakistan. Pakistan has nuclear weapons and a military focused on Hindu majority India and it's nuclear weapons and military.
There are 74 million Tamil, 35 million Kurds and 12.5 million Palestinians seeking a civil secular plural egalitarian democratic nation state of their own.
Neither Jim Jones nor David Koresh nor Tim McVeigh nor Jerad/Amanda Miller nor Eric Frein nor Eric Rudolph nor Cliven Bundy nor Dylann Roof nor Eric Lanza nor Jerad Loughner nor James Holmes were Muslim extremists.
10
" without the critical thinking that (ideally) comes from an acquaintance with the liberal arts."
Um, as a logician, I have not seen much critical thinking among the liberals. f course liberal arts and liberals are not the same, but in American academia they have BECOME the same.
My aunt who never went to college and never had a job, had far more critical thinking than anyone here.
Critical thinking requires not merely education, but a certain humility which the original Socrates had and the "Socrates" here does not. You have to honestly consider the possibility that you might be wrong. You have to consider that your beliefs might be formed by prejudice, or self-interest, or from being too influenced by the people you know.
Um, as a logician, I have not seen much critical thinking among the liberals. f course liberal arts and liberals are not the same, but in American academia they have BECOME the same.
My aunt who never went to college and never had a job, had far more critical thinking than anyone here.
Critical thinking requires not merely education, but a certain humility which the original Socrates had and the "Socrates" here does not. You have to honestly consider the possibility that you might be wrong. You have to consider that your beliefs might be formed by prejudice, or self-interest, or from being too influenced by the people you know.
27
Think about this; if you can change from having been a Muslim extremist you probably weren't one to begin with. Fanaticism is much a part of you as your skin color, you cannot change it just like that. One you can do, however, is make others believe you have changed in order to infiltrate among the naive in order to fulfill your agenda. Erring on the side of caution is always best when dealing with such persons; don't believe for a moment they've changed and you won't open the door to allow them to enter.
15
The first word of the Holy Quran to be revealed to Prophet Muhammad was 'Iqra', that is 'read' ...'read in the name of God'. Unfortunately, the community whose religious book boasts of preaching of education is far left behind in wisdom of logic and reason. Nothing can work...no drone, no war plane, no bomb, as effectively against extremism as the tool of education in one's hand. An extremist is not only inimical to society but also to his own members of family creating strong differences of opinions to live together under one roof.
23
What is the "right" book? Isn't that one of the things we are fighting about?
12
"The right book"will have to include a detailed run down of USA policies in the Arab and Moslem worlds: recount clearly and objectively the domination of Jewish circles in America which led, and leads, to America's incessant support of the the Zionist colonization of Palestine , the present occupation and empowerment of Isrsel into regional super power.it should not mince words when it comes to the wanton conquest and destruction of Iraq nor accept the present American assumption that "terrorism" is an outgrowth of American policies and not of Islam or Islamism.
Better still it should redefine "terrorism" according to objectective criteria which makes it a function of the number of innocent victims it victimizes and not its rejection of American hegemony.
It should be clear and forth coming about the ultimate objectives of the Judeo/
Christian alliance .
Better still it should redefine "terrorism" according to objectective criteria which makes it a function of the number of innocent victims it victimizes and not its rejection of American hegemony.
It should be clear and forth coming about the ultimate objectives of the Judeo/
Christian alliance .
7
Thank you for this story of one person who seems to have turned his life around. But generalizing from this one success story is tenuous.
There are two important shifts that are needed, only one of which is addressed by Kristof in this column. Almost passingly he notes that "we should also put more pressure on countries like Saudi Arabia to stop financing extremist madrasas in poor countries in Africa and Asia." This is probably the most important shift in US policy that can counter the global recruiting of young educated men. The Saudis promote the most virulent and fundamentalist form of Islam. It is unconscionable that the US is allied with them.
The second shift in the US policy, not mentioned in this column, is to stop funding Pakistan in the name of fighting Islamist extremism. The Northwest frontier which is close to Afghanistan (and includes Balochistan) is a lawless region. On any given day you can buy any weapon you wish to in this region. Much of the arms that are given by the US to the Pakistani army ends up in this market.
So, while it is satisfying to read the success of one Pakistani, there will not even be a dent in the recruiting of young Pakistani men by the likes of AQ and ISIS until the Saudis stop spreading Wahabiism and the US stops sending arms to the Pakistani army.
There are two important shifts that are needed, only one of which is addressed by Kristof in this column. Almost passingly he notes that "we should also put more pressure on countries like Saudi Arabia to stop financing extremist madrasas in poor countries in Africa and Asia." This is probably the most important shift in US policy that can counter the global recruiting of young educated men. The Saudis promote the most virulent and fundamentalist form of Islam. It is unconscionable that the US is allied with them.
The second shift in the US policy, not mentioned in this column, is to stop funding Pakistan in the name of fighting Islamist extremism. The Northwest frontier which is close to Afghanistan (and includes Balochistan) is a lawless region. On any given day you can buy any weapon you wish to in this region. Much of the arms that are given by the US to the Pakistani army ends up in this market.
So, while it is satisfying to read the success of one Pakistani, there will not even be a dent in the recruiting of young Pakistani men by the likes of AQ and ISIS until the Saudis stop spreading Wahabiism and the US stops sending arms to the Pakistani army.
31
As someone already pointed out these feel good stories are more an exception than a rule. More important questions should be of all the groups receiving aid from the US government why only Muslims have this problem of understanding different ways of life, view points and other religions and accept and co-exist? For instance, Somali refugees in US insisted on replacing their current teacher (a non-Muslim) with a Muslim one in the school where this non-Muslim teacher was volunteering to teach over a perceived religious offense. Unless Islam is reformed and Koran is re-interpreted in the light of modern societies no amount of education will work. Incidentally, most of the terrorist attack perpetrators in Britain are highly educated second generation Pakistanis. How do we explain this? Why do not we see such reaction from say Vietnamese whose country we almost bombed out of existence? For many years India, a pre-dominantly Hindu country and the US did not see eye-to-eye on any thing. That did not give rise to Hindu terrorists attacking US interests. Why do we have this problem with only Muslims. Have Budhists gone on killing spree against Chinese because of China's oppression of Tibet? Show me a country where Muslims peacefully co-exist as a minority. Forget it, even where they are in majority they keep killing each other based on sectarian differences. No amount of education can cure this.
40
Back in 2001, before 9-11 there was a terrific piece of reporting in NYT on madrasas, titled The Jihad Factory. I would strongly recommend Mr.Kristof read that, again.
Mr.Kakars journey cannot be considered a rule, it was an exception, a one off. If the task is to re-configure all future Kakar journeys, the solution offered by Mr.Kristof is sadly inadequate. The educated and empowered women he pins his hope on, one of those rejected the American dream, picked up gun killed a few in San Bernardino.
Safely ensconced in NY City, USA Mr.Kristof offers simple solutions (books, empower women, education etc). What is required a cerebral, thought out and brutally honest approach.
Lets not leave it to Donald Trump to provide defective answers.
Mr.Kakars journey cannot be considered a rule, it was an exception, a one off. If the task is to re-configure all future Kakar journeys, the solution offered by Mr.Kristof is sadly inadequate. The educated and empowered women he pins his hope on, one of those rejected the American dream, picked up gun killed a few in San Bernardino.
Safely ensconced in NY City, USA Mr.Kristof offers simple solutions (books, empower women, education etc). What is required a cerebral, thought out and brutally honest approach.
Lets not leave it to Donald Trump to provide defective answers.
16
Mr Kistoff, Thank you for yet another edifying post.
For the record, it has never occurred to me to as the question: "Why do they hate us?" I always attributed it to insanity.
Just goes to show how much I know.
For the record, it has never occurred to me to as the question: "Why do they hate us?" I always attributed it to insanity.
Just goes to show how much I know.
4
Indoctrination of any kind is dangerous. It matters little whether it is religious or political, rather true education allows one and encourages one to think for themselves!
5
So, he still hates the USA but not as much as previously! Liberals don't seem to get it. Muslims hate the USA for what it is and represent not for what it has done! The USA represent freedom of thinking with your own brain, not constrained by some ancient superstition. And liberals don't start ranting about US christians because they are not the USA. And as their hate is based on their "religion" they will never stop hating the USA or any other society that is not islam based!
19
Pluralism and critical thinking is not a matter of schooling totally. It is generally related to athmosphere where you live. Muslim tradition is not compatible with Western pluralism. There are a few reasons of this : First of all Islam took shape between 7th and 12th centuries. It is almost impossible to see some kind of reformation which let people begin to think critically against governing elites or god which led to primary change in mindsets of the masses. Secondly secular oriented reforms leaded by a narrow enlightened bureucratic elite in countries like Turkey. In spite of her strong secular tradition and leader role in Muslim world she is also transforming through a more anti western pro Islam path. Last of all if you are living in a little town in a muslim country and big cities, cosmopolitan culture and christians, jews are traditionally your "other" it is not easy to accept Western classics as a role model. Because they are products of the "other". Muslim world is so bust with "the other" nowadays. They don't have time to think critically about themselves. It is generally the same for "intellectual islamists". That is the worst part. If there is no self criticism than you find "the others" easily guilty for your failed position within world. That's Islamic societies and conservatives main challenge. I don't see any "critical" development in this sense, sorry...
18
" .... Why do they hate us? ..."
You can discuss this for ages from a Western perspective, try to use complicated concepts lice sociology and history of long gone by wars and colonization but in the end you will find that the answer is simple and lies in the very same reason that everyone seems to avoid, in their religion Islam.
Islam, like many other ideologies, has a a target and that is full victory over each and every other ideology/religion.
Which is the only target of every extreme ideology.
Total victory and supreme rule of this one religion in erecting the House of Peace, the House of Islam with full submission under the laws and rules of Islam which, BTW, does not mean Peace but Submission in Arabic.
So you ask why Muslims hate the West and all other Non-Muslims?
Sorry, but sometimes the answer is way too easy but most Muslim scholars will tell you that it is an order from Allah to conquer the world and make it the House of Islam and to destroy everyone that stands in the way of spreading Islam.
It is nothing personal, it is the order of the religion.
And as Islam is a totalitarian system, this order will go into every aspect of life.
So schooling too is part of this totalitarian approach and every education that does not fully support Islam is haram and as such to be attacked in order to cleanse the world for the House of Islam.
For Western thinking this is strange but for believers, who do not need logic but belief only, it is the simplest way to worship.
You can discuss this for ages from a Western perspective, try to use complicated concepts lice sociology and history of long gone by wars and colonization but in the end you will find that the answer is simple and lies in the very same reason that everyone seems to avoid, in their religion Islam.
Islam, like many other ideologies, has a a target and that is full victory over each and every other ideology/religion.
Which is the only target of every extreme ideology.
Total victory and supreme rule of this one religion in erecting the House of Peace, the House of Islam with full submission under the laws and rules of Islam which, BTW, does not mean Peace but Submission in Arabic.
So you ask why Muslims hate the West and all other Non-Muslims?
Sorry, but sometimes the answer is way too easy but most Muslim scholars will tell you that it is an order from Allah to conquer the world and make it the House of Islam and to destroy everyone that stands in the way of spreading Islam.
It is nothing personal, it is the order of the religion.
And as Islam is a totalitarian system, this order will go into every aspect of life.
So schooling too is part of this totalitarian approach and every education that does not fully support Islam is haram and as such to be attacked in order to cleanse the world for the House of Islam.
For Western thinking this is strange but for believers, who do not need logic but belief only, it is the simplest way to worship.
33
"But he also fell under the spell of political Islam."
All of Islam is political. Go to any Muslim country, and there is a Ministry of Religious Affairs as part of the government. The government holidays are based on the Quran, for Eid, Ramadhan, the Prophet's birthday, etc.
Islam is not just a religion, it permeates every facet of life including marriage, employment, government affairs, politics, and even personal hygiene.
All of Islam is political. Go to any Muslim country, and there is a Ministry of Religious Affairs as part of the government. The government holidays are based on the Quran, for Eid, Ramadhan, the Prophet's birthday, etc.
Islam is not just a religion, it permeates every facet of life including marriage, employment, government affairs, politics, and even personal hygiene.
23
Mr. Rafi Kakar need to tell readers if illiteracy and poverty is absolute causes of extremism so what had gone wrong with Donald Trump the US president hopeful? Mr. Donald had every thing on his disposal, wealth health, pervert ism and false faith such as Christianity which founded on unscientific grounds and contradict very reason and logic. The atmosphere you and Taliban grown up and growing had nothing to do with Islams noble principles, they are the product of tribalism,tribal honor cum American needs and exploitism of raw minds, and resources to American political and military ends in south and south west Asia and beyond in the greater world. These Talibans are former freedom fighter trained to kick former USSR out of Afghanistan and later the Government soviet installed in Afghanistan. Pakistan's problem lies here that our elites and educated persons tries to resolve our problems through american provided manuals of instruction, because they are very found of American aids regime, it suits them best, because it help them to promote themselves in the ranks and folds of Pakistani and western elites. Wasn't it Islam that demand women to acquire education? Wasn't it Islam that gave women right to get divorced? You cannot view Islam and Muslim through American periscope, american has an agenda to reign the world and so Islam resist against American Ideals. If Americans are not willy not abandon their wishful thoughts to reign the world, why should we or Russia or China?
3
It is extreme and radical militant Islam that is poisoning the minds of the Pakistani people and keeping them in their chains.
The right book isn't the Quran. It can be a supplement if they read books by non Islamic authors and open themselves up to world thinking.
Rafi is the exception, that saw the light. he managed to get out of his ghetto mentality and was able to break through the myths and lies that he grew up with.
I pray that when he returns home he will not get killed for his ideas and remains safe.
The right book isn't the Quran. It can be a supplement if they read books by non Islamic authors and open themselves up to world thinking.
Rafi is the exception, that saw the light. he managed to get out of his ghetto mentality and was able to break through the myths and lies that he grew up with.
I pray that when he returns home he will not get killed for his ideas and remains safe.
10
And how many Rafis are there? One example doesn't change much.
15
I'm interested in knowing what Rafi thinks is the right education and how he's planning on keeping the students alive long enough to get it. Seriously. Has he given any thought to it?
8
I think you are once again mis-categorizing Mr. Trump whom, for full disclosure, I support, in spite you might say of my being a so-called highly educated Harvard alum. In fact, I believe Mr. Trump would be the first to commend and welcome Nicholas Kristof's "friend" for his educational success and enlightenment. However, Mr. Kakar is likely an exception to a dangerous rule, and Trump simply wants to hit the pause button while U.S. security measures are established that can truly separate the Kakars from the extremists in sheep's garb. It's just common sense and to think otherwise is naive at best.
33
We did build schools in Afghanistan, but the Taliban destroyed them.
Maybe this is simplistic, but if we could promote a peace between Pakistan and India, then they could redirect their resources from the military to the development of their people. Ah! but for corruption! Best wishes for Rafi to be successful in improving the lives of the Pashtun.
Maybe this is simplistic, but if we could promote a peace between Pakistan and India, then they could redirect their resources from the military to the development of their people. Ah! but for corruption! Best wishes for Rafi to be successful in improving the lives of the Pashtun.
5
"Extremist American voices like Trump’s, Rafi says, empower extremist voices throughout the Islamic world."
U.S. 'war that never ends' has caused the Middle east to hate the US. We continue for years to bomb and kill, including civilians. People see hated drones in the air and wonder who will be killed next. Will any relatives or friends be destroyed? There is a price for killing and destroying homes and businesses for years on end.
How much better it would be if we could use some of that war and NSA money to build schools, hospitals and to work for poor people to have clean drinking water.
U.S. 'war that never ends' has caused the Middle east to hate the US. We continue for years to bomb and kill, including civilians. People see hated drones in the air and wonder who will be killed next. Will any relatives or friends be destroyed? There is a price for killing and destroying homes and businesses for years on end.
How much better it would be if we could use some of that war and NSA money to build schools, hospitals and to work for poor people to have clean drinking water.
3
Excellent column. No civilization reaches it's full potential without the equal participation of women.
5
Kristof has written before about how education would be more effective than arms, and he does here. However, he does not mention that we should be more selective about our friends. Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are major sources of Sunni radicalism. Pakistan in particular has major responsibility for spreading nuclear arm technology to North Korea, Iran and elsewhere. Yet we support them massively, mostly militarily. In Syria Kristof has repeatedly called for military and arms support of "moderate" forces there. I'd like to know a little more about just who these "moderates" are before we go about overthrowing yet another government only to build another autocratic and corrupt one.
5
Yes, education certainly is a good thing. But it may be also dangerous when an educated youth is confronted with corrupt governments offering them neither democratic freedom nor any hope for being able to earn their living.
And looking to the US: many of the Republican candidates are educated, from neuro-surgeon to MBA, but still they are cracy, bigotted extremists.
And looking to the US: many of the Republican candidates are educated, from neuro-surgeon to MBA, but still they are cracy, bigotted extremists.
7
Pakistan is radicalized because President Zia madd a conscious decision to change the school curriculum in the late 70s. This process has been going on for a while. But Pakistanis want to blame the rest of the world for their problem. Why cannot the leadership change the curriculum back to what it as in the sixties?
5
Liberal Arts education should be a necessity everywhere--including these United States; otherwise, we might get one of the vitriolic Republicans as our Commander in Chief. Again. And don't get me started on the Supreme Court and members of congress...
1
There can be no question that tough-talking, anti-Muslim demagogues like Donald Trump are the best friends that anti-American jihadists in the Middle East could ever hope for. These American politicians not only make recruitment easier for terrorists, they turn the potential friends we should be cultivating in the Muslim world into enemies.
The problem is that educating young men and women in the Middle East takes time, and we have an immediate military need to defeat the existing enemies like ISIS and Al Qaeda and the Taliban.
We cannot abandon the long-term strategy of education, not can we defer our military response.
We have to do both, and that requires a nuanced, wise foreign policy. President Barack Obama knows that truth, but neither Donald Trump nor, for that matter, any of the Republican candidates have any interest in such an approach.
Unfortunately, the Republican fear-mongering has grown a large segment of the American electorate which can only hear simplistic messages of indiscriminate, violence. Just like the uneducated masses in the Middle East.
The problem is that educating young men and women in the Middle East takes time, and we have an immediate military need to defeat the existing enemies like ISIS and Al Qaeda and the Taliban.
We cannot abandon the long-term strategy of education, not can we defer our military response.
We have to do both, and that requires a nuanced, wise foreign policy. President Barack Obama knows that truth, but neither Donald Trump nor, for that matter, any of the Republican candidates have any interest in such an approach.
Unfortunately, the Republican fear-mongering has grown a large segment of the American electorate which can only hear simplistic messages of indiscriminate, violence. Just like the uneducated masses in the Middle East.
3
A thought provoking article. A complementary question we should be asking is: Why do we hate them? We must hate them; after all, look at all the death and destruction we have caused!
There is a real risk to using the story of one individual to make a point. Look at the angry voters that Donald Trump has energized: are we really that different from them? Or, the extremists that flock to Ted Cruz; what would their reading of the Bible permit them to do?
There is a real risk to using the story of one individual to make a point. Look at the angry voters that Donald Trump has energized: are we really that different from them? Or, the extremists that flock to Ted Cruz; what would their reading of the Bible permit them to do?
6
I'm not a religious person, I believe we must all find our own heaven on earth, but I can't help but look at the teaching and lives of Christ and Mohamad and note the glaring conflict in philosophies, and the equally striking outcomes in those area and cultures where they dominate.
7
Yes, Rafi, go for mass education in Pakistan first. Then change the country towards democracy - true democracy with open minds. The democracy in Pakistan is half baked controlled by Military. Memorizing Quran not even knowing Arabic does not make anybody Hafiz - manmade misconception that ruled Pakistan and Bangladesh since the partition. All politicians in Pakistan win election by hating India propaganda - military likes it to keep their empire. America has given billions of aid to Pakistan since partition but Pakistani military misused the fund to build nuclear weapons. Even after 9/11, more madrasas were built with the fund given to fight talibans. So do not blame the west. India did not do that - a lesson to learn. Military in India cannot destroy the fabric of Indian democracy. Pakistan is still looking for a sense of direction - so sad. In the middle of such chaos, talbans may rein over Pakistani arsenals. Even the radioactive waste from the nuclear plants may be good enough for talibans to make dirty bombs. Pakistan in spite of so much discussion is not willing to cooperate with India for curbing Talban's power. Instead, they supporting them against India to create problem in Kashmir. what good Kashmir will add to Pakistan? Pakistan cannot control the territory it owns now adding more territories will create more problems down the line.
6
Charlie Wilson's War: We would not build a school in Afghanistan to educate its young people - that's where it all started.
And what did we do when the Buddhist statues were threatened? Talk. Those were yours and mine Buddhist statues.
This list is short, the complete list is long.
And what did we do when the Buddhist statues were threatened? Talk. Those were yours and mine Buddhist statues.
This list is short, the complete list is long.
8
The experiences of Mr Kakar exposes our two-dimensional understanding of countries such as Pakistan. News reports depict Pakistan as a country full of extremists who hate the U.S. and willingly sacrifice their own lives to kill Americans. This sepia-toned portrait, however, captures only part of the reality. Most Pakistanis may not love America, but if given the opportunity and a modern education, their goals would focus on a better life for themselves and their families, not on suicidal attacks against us.
A true portrait of Pakistan would reflect this complex reality. The country, with its nuclear arsenal, does pose a potential threat to the West, but it also possesses the capacity to become a constructive member of the world community. Its leaders and people will ultimately determine whether the Taliban or Rafiullah Kakar more accurately symbolizes Pakistan. But the U.S. can help with the right kind of aid and a foreign policy more responsive to the sensitivities of Pakistanis.
A true portrait of Pakistan would reflect this complex reality. The country, with its nuclear arsenal, does pose a potential threat to the West, but it also possesses the capacity to become a constructive member of the world community. Its leaders and people will ultimately determine whether the Taliban or Rafiullah Kakar more accurately symbolizes Pakistan. But the U.S. can help with the right kind of aid and a foreign policy more responsive to the sensitivities of Pakistanis.
19
How many radicalized Muslim come back to normality?
How is it that ISIS gains more recruits to their cause every day while our president dawdles?
When will this Muslim Enlightenment take place?
It is an uphill fight while radical Muslims murder innocent men, women and children all over the world.
3
Rafi's observation that high level technical education without training in critical thinking can lead to extreme views equally applies to STEM education in the US and other western countries. We need to make sure our tech experts can work with ambiguity.
Rafi observed "Pakistani doctors or engineers are sometimes extremists because in that country’s specialized education system they gain the confidence of a university degree without the critical thinking that (ideally) comes from an acquaintance with the liberal arts" (summarized by Kristof).
Consider this from Dr. Susan Crawford, a distinguished computer scientist who "works intersection of cybersecurity, national security, law, and policy", who also teaches undergraduate engineers in the US.
She says that student engineers' technical training well qualifies them to think about cybersecurity policy, but that they have trouble with the necessary ambiguity in policy. She says "policy issues are neither
black nor white. There’s lots of uncertainty, and they (students) like
concrete.” And most of these are students who graduated from US high schools, where everyone has to complete a broad curriculum, including humanities-- but that largely fades into the background in engineering college.
This might be exacerbated for others who go directly to computer boot camp.
In our generally positive emphasis on STEM literacy, let's make sure that we don't wind up with STEM graduates who think every problem has one right answer.
Rafi observed "Pakistani doctors or engineers are sometimes extremists because in that country’s specialized education system they gain the confidence of a university degree without the critical thinking that (ideally) comes from an acquaintance with the liberal arts" (summarized by Kristof).
Consider this from Dr. Susan Crawford, a distinguished computer scientist who "works intersection of cybersecurity, national security, law, and policy", who also teaches undergraduate engineers in the US.
She says that student engineers' technical training well qualifies them to think about cybersecurity policy, but that they have trouble with the necessary ambiguity in policy. She says "policy issues are neither
black nor white. There’s lots of uncertainty, and they (students) like
concrete.” And most of these are students who graduated from US high schools, where everyone has to complete a broad curriculum, including humanities-- but that largely fades into the background in engineering college.
This might be exacerbated for others who go directly to computer boot camp.
In our generally positive emphasis on STEM literacy, let's make sure that we don't wind up with STEM graduates who think every problem has one right answer.
3
THE IMPORTANCE OF GOOD EDUCATION . . .
...as here in the U. S., our public educational system (K to college) has deteriorated badly during recent decades ... we can see the impact on our present election process.
So, in Muslim (and other nations) genuine learning has morphed into religious and anti-Western propaganda.
Your friend, Mr. Kakar has become cognizant of how important education is in the formation of the implications of cultural values ... hence in Pakistan the nature of the entire country.
Here in our nation education has been so dumbed down ... a B.A. is now the equivalent of a high school diploma from 50 years ago ... sans basic civics and history.
Of course, this does not affect the wealthy but rather the underclass in the "inner cities" and the middle class all over.
To have a functioning nation (especially a democracy) one must have a first class education available to all ... including girls.
...as here in the U. S., our public educational system (K to college) has deteriorated badly during recent decades ... we can see the impact on our present election process.
So, in Muslim (and other nations) genuine learning has morphed into religious and anti-Western propaganda.
Your friend, Mr. Kakar has become cognizant of how important education is in the formation of the implications of cultural values ... hence in Pakistan the nature of the entire country.
Here in our nation education has been so dumbed down ... a B.A. is now the equivalent of a high school diploma from 50 years ago ... sans basic civics and history.
Of course, this does not affect the wealthy but rather the underclass in the "inner cities" and the middle class all over.
To have a functioning nation (especially a democracy) one must have a first class education available to all ... including girls.
7
Mr. Kakar is to be commended for his accomplishments, but I hope he doesn't become a typical politician, when he enters the political arena.
Pakistan has had educated political leaders (the Bhuttos, for example, were both well educated) before, who became corrupt to the core and used India as the bogeyman to retain their power. Let's hope Mr. Kakar does not follow those leaders' footsteps.
Pakistan has had educated political leaders (the Bhuttos, for example, were both well educated) before, who became corrupt to the core and used India as the bogeyman to retain their power. Let's hope Mr. Kakar does not follow those leaders' footsteps.
2
Thank you for this article. It is more important than ever that we keep alive the Confuscian idea that all people flow towards goodness, just as water flows down hill. We need to spend more of our time addressing the social diversions that could surely force any of us in the opposite direction.
2
So - let's try some basic mathematics:
One reformed muslim terrorist = A x 1 million west-destroying muslim terrorists
The equation does not seem to balance.
One reformed muslim terrorist = A x 1 million west-destroying muslim terrorists
The equation does not seem to balance.
1
[“One reason people send kids to madrasa is that a hafiz can get to paradise and take 10 other people along,” Rafi notes, explaining a local belief about getting to heaven.]
Good grief! These Madrasas (schools) are built on the wrong foundation, and not only in Pakistan. "Hafiz" simply means one who memorizes the Qur'an. It says nothing about how well he/she understands that holy scripture. Had it been useful in understanding then Hafizeen would be the first group to spot the passages that negate any kind of intercession on the Last Day, and affirm that no one shall carry the sins of another.
Memorizing without sufficient understanding is something that always bothered me about most Sunni as well as Shiite Muslim view of the scripture. In my view, when you understand the Qur'an without the traditional commentary you will clearly see (as I have) that terrorism has no place in Islam, violence and aggression are strongly condemned, and that killing another under any circumstances other than self-defense is abhorrent and forbidden that one murder is equated to the murder of all mankind.
One thing I learned when it comes to faith is that you can only forfeit your reasoning at your own risk. No one will help you or carry your burden.
Good grief! These Madrasas (schools) are built on the wrong foundation, and not only in Pakistan. "Hafiz" simply means one who memorizes the Qur'an. It says nothing about how well he/she understands that holy scripture. Had it been useful in understanding then Hafizeen would be the first group to spot the passages that negate any kind of intercession on the Last Day, and affirm that no one shall carry the sins of another.
Memorizing without sufficient understanding is something that always bothered me about most Sunni as well as Shiite Muslim view of the scripture. In my view, when you understand the Qur'an without the traditional commentary you will clearly see (as I have) that terrorism has no place in Islam, violence and aggression are strongly condemned, and that killing another under any circumstances other than self-defense is abhorrent and forbidden that one murder is equated to the murder of all mankind.
One thing I learned when it comes to faith is that you can only forfeit your reasoning at your own risk. No one will help you or carry your burden.
5
Kristof, why not take this space to call attention to the fact that some of the anti-foreign sentiment being taught by the Taliban is fueled by US funded text-books?
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/12/7/afghan-fighters-american...
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/12/7/afghan-fighters-american...
"why do they hate us ?" [why does Islam wage war against non-Muslims ?] Questions asked only by people to lazy and/or stupid to study the Koran.
ps: "Skeptics" online Koran is in non-convoluted simple English and too the point ... and any disputed verse can be cross-checked against other online Korans.
ps: "Skeptics" online Koran is in non-convoluted simple English and too the point ... and any disputed verse can be cross-checked against other online Korans.
2
"Rafi teaches us that a book can be a more powerful force against extremism than a drone. But it has to be the right book!"
Absolutely true. However, the only people I know who habitually read books for the purpose of learning other peoples' points of view happen to be Democrats.
Can you really see Ted Cruz, Donald Trump, or any of their minions reading anything Rafi would write? And can you really see them promoting the education of women?
I can't.
Absolutely true. However, the only people I know who habitually read books for the purpose of learning other peoples' points of view happen to be Democrats.
Can you really see Ted Cruz, Donald Trump, or any of their minions reading anything Rafi would write? And can you really see them promoting the education of women?
I can't.
6
Formal education does not prevent extremism and fanatics anywhere. Look at Germany in the 30´s, Marco Rubio, Trump and Cruz, and the Tea Party.....
9
A Third World failed state with atomic bombs and the public education system financed by the Saudis - what could go wrong? And another socially stratified system stacked against itself - thanks, Britain's colonial rule - and the role of the plebs made easier with religion. Solution? None. Sometimes I miss Communism...
3
We have been trying to change things in Muslim countries for a long time and have failed. Our best course is to stay away. We can provide assistance on things like water issues, improved farming methods, earthquake relief, to name a few. If we educate Middle Easterners in the west, it does little good, because they want to stay in the west. So, leave them alone, wish them well, help them if they ask about the kind of things indicated above, but, for the most part, stay away.
7
I'll never forget the end of the movie Charlie Wilson's War. After enthusiastic congressmen enthusiastically heaped millions upon millions into war, when all was said and done, nobody cared about the aftermath. Nobody could be bothered to spend a couple million opening schools for girls, for example. All of a sudden that was too costly. Well, a couple decades down the road, look what it cost us now? Every time I see us spending money on drones and bombs and missiles, I see people whose lives are torn apart and who will inevitably turn to extremism. If we invested even a fraction of our war money in education, what would we see a couple decades from now?
7
Rafiullah's story illustrates why no group of people deserves blanket condemnation.
3
American's like Trump are to blame for Muslim extremism? Hogwash. Trump's been on the political radar for less than a year. Muslim extremists have been attacking Americans for more than a generation. America tried to set Afghanistan and Iraq free and what's been the response: kill as many Americans and Muslims who disagree with you as possible. This is not a new phenomenon. Muslim extremists have been attacking the west and their fellow Muslims for almost 1500 years. Stop making excuses for it. And for heaven's sake don't blame America. America didn't even exist when it started.
10
Why do they hate us ? Study the life of Mohammad; no other religion is tolerable and must be extinguished.
8
"... Pakistani doctors or engineers are sometimes extremists because in that country’s specialized education system they gain the confidence of a university degree without the critical thinking that (ideally) comes from an acquaintance with the liberal arts..."
Only in Pakistan??? Bashar Assad is a physician. And then there is Ben Carson...
Only in Pakistan??? Bashar Assad is a physician. And then there is Ben Carson...
8
Thanks again for a thoughtful column. Focusing on Rafi helped me to know more about his world--which icontinues to be difficult to understand. His remarkable path from a third world to first is impressive. Americans like myself would grow from more stories like this--and more opportunities to interact with Muslims in our own communities. Little opportunity where I live in Portland, Oregon.
2
We just allowed the sale of 8 F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan over Israel's strong objection.
Why didn't we ask for concessions on educating women in Pakistan?
Not everyone can have their educational horizons expanded by the Fulbright and Rhodes scholarship committees.
Why didn't we ask for concessions on educating women in Pakistan?
Not everyone can have their educational horizons expanded by the Fulbright and Rhodes scholarship committees.
4
"The critical thinking... that comes from... the liberal arts." Very sorry to see this smug line in an otherwise good piece. Good critical thinking can be found in any discipline -- and lack of critical thinking can be found in any discipline, too. I do suspect that more liberal arts education might be helpful in Pakistan (and some places in the U.S.), but not because it's the only route to critical thought; rather, because one needs both liberal arts and sciences to have an adequately full view of the world.
1
“It’s people like Donald Trump who are put forward by the extremists back home,” Rafi told me. “It pours cold water on us.”
People like Donald Trump is not the cause for Islamic Terrorism around the world; Trump is a recent phenomenon, cause by Islamic Terrorism in the USA. The rise of anti-Muslim sentiment in millions of people, like Donald Trump, is due to the multitude of Islamic Terrorism around the world.
Sending money to build schools and colleges in stead of sending drones and soldiers will not stop terrorism. As Rafi said, people are being radicalized and indoctrinated to terrorism in schools and universities. So, the education system in the Muslim countries needs reform. Muslims around the world need to realize that - their enemy is not American or European; their enemy is their psyche.
People like Donald Trump is not the cause for Islamic Terrorism around the world; Trump is a recent phenomenon, cause by Islamic Terrorism in the USA. The rise of anti-Muslim sentiment in millions of people, like Donald Trump, is due to the multitude of Islamic Terrorism around the world.
Sending money to build schools and colleges in stead of sending drones and soldiers will not stop terrorism. As Rafi said, people are being radicalized and indoctrinated to terrorism in schools and universities. So, the education system in the Muslim countries needs reform. Muslims around the world need to realize that - their enemy is not American or European; their enemy is their psyche.
11
Great ideas! I've always thought that it would be much less expensive and much more effective to fund education in these desperately impoverished areas, than to fund military campaigns. It seems so obvious. And I appreciate the connection made here between liberal arts study and critical thinking. Liberal arts education has been under attack in our own country for decades and we have a nation-wide dearth of critical thinking. Bring on the (good) books and bring on the thinking.
5
It's a sweeping and offensive statement to to say that educated women produce fewer children. My wife and I both have PhDs and are the proud parents of five children. Sweeping, inaccurate statements serve nobody.
1
Statistics tell inconvenient truths.
5
Many thoughtful comments.
One in particular strikes me as being on the money; Colenso, Cairns, rightly draws the distinction between "education", and "schooling".
Education oft-times only begins some years after formal schooling, as one goes out into the world and gathers experience and knowledge from interaction with multiple ethnicities and culture.
The best way to be educated, after formal schooling is to remove oneself from parochial closely held communities, shake off the indoctrination, and open ones mind and analyze all points of view.
Schooling does indeed tend to create conformists, maintain the kind of thinking peculiar to the culture of the nation it is part of.
Here in the United States, in many ways, we exemplify what closed parochial thinking is all about.
synonyms for parochial - narrow-minded, small-minded, provincial, narrow, small-town, conservative, illiberal, intolerant, as in
"she was constantly challenging their parochial approach to education"
One in particular strikes me as being on the money; Colenso, Cairns, rightly draws the distinction between "education", and "schooling".
Education oft-times only begins some years after formal schooling, as one goes out into the world and gathers experience and knowledge from interaction with multiple ethnicities and culture.
The best way to be educated, after formal schooling is to remove oneself from parochial closely held communities, shake off the indoctrination, and open ones mind and analyze all points of view.
Schooling does indeed tend to create conformists, maintain the kind of thinking peculiar to the culture of the nation it is part of.
Here in the United States, in many ways, we exemplify what closed parochial thinking is all about.
synonyms for parochial - narrow-minded, small-minded, provincial, narrow, small-town, conservative, illiberal, intolerant, as in
"she was constantly challenging their parochial approach to education"
7
I'm sympathetic to Rafi's view that Donald Trump is toxic to our politics, and to international relations, but only to the degree that it actually matters in Pakistan and the broader Muslim world in general.
And when it comes to that, it doesn't really matter that much compared to the domestic politics and cultures of those countries that are so retrograde, and which have been so since before the US came about.
US Policy comes up as a refrain in these kinds of conversations, but it is such a broad brush. Remember that it was also "US Policy" that prevented Afghanistan (and potentially Pakistan, too) from being annexed by the godless Soviets in the 80's. One would think a word of thanks may have been in order, but we got 9/11 instead. And in the meantime, one can't ignore that the people of these countries would have been better off under Soviet rule and emigrate in droves to the United States.
So let's keep Trump out of the Oval Office. Let's also not become so meekly apologetic for our own power that we're blind to the role domestic politics and religious culture plays elsewhere in the world. For all the hysteria around America's "War on Islam" in those parts of the world, we shouldn't forget that in WWII you didn't see many Jews moving to Germany. Sometimes other peoples' problems really are their own fault.
And when it comes to that, it doesn't really matter that much compared to the domestic politics and cultures of those countries that are so retrograde, and which have been so since before the US came about.
US Policy comes up as a refrain in these kinds of conversations, but it is such a broad brush. Remember that it was also "US Policy" that prevented Afghanistan (and potentially Pakistan, too) from being annexed by the godless Soviets in the 80's. One would think a word of thanks may have been in order, but we got 9/11 instead. And in the meantime, one can't ignore that the people of these countries would have been better off under Soviet rule and emigrate in droves to the United States.
So let's keep Trump out of the Oval Office. Let's also not become so meekly apologetic for our own power that we're blind to the role domestic politics and religious culture plays elsewhere in the world. For all the hysteria around America's "War on Islam" in those parts of the world, we shouldn't forget that in WWII you didn't see many Jews moving to Germany. Sometimes other peoples' problems really are their own fault.
11
Seems like a strong argument from Kristof for electing Secretary Clinton President. Done right, education and the empowerment of women can be transformative.
7
"To fight Islamic terrorism, the West spends billions of dollars on drones, missiles and foreign bases."
You seem to forget, Mr. Kristof, that those billions spent ultimately end up in pockets that are not interested in replacing one soldier with 20 schools.
You seem to forget, Mr. Kristof, that those billions spent ultimately end up in pockets that are not interested in replacing one soldier with 20 schools.
12
I firmly believe terrorism will dwindle when the most powerful countries realize a strong humanitarian arm is equal to, if not superior to military force. More women in leadership roles, surpassing the number of men will create a more peaceful world. I cannot wait until that time comes.
7
Unfortunately, the Rafi's of the muslim world are a tiny, numerically insignificant number in the mainstream islamic ummah.
8
"To fight Islamic terrorism, the West spends billions of dollars on drones, missiles and foreign bases. Yet we neglect education and the empowerment of women, which if done right can be even more transformative. The trade-offs are striking: For the cost of deploying one soldier for a year, we could start more than 20 schools.
Rafi teaches us that a book can be a more powerful force against extremism than a drone. But it has to be the right book!"
A truly wonderful report; your closing two paragraphs say it all.
Our government, almost entirely, including Congress, is owned, by corporate America, international corporations, and certain foreign nations, (Saudi Arabia gave $10 million to the Clinton Foundation), and the military industrial alliance, all of whom are engaged in amassing unimaginable wealth through using, abusing, maiming, and killing millions of humans, worldwide.
Mention the word "War", and which nation comes to mind, and is synonymous with "War"; the answer will always be the United States of America, which now appears to have endless war as its raison d'etre.
When weapons are turned into plowshares, and the sword is forsaken for the pen, only then will we know that the nation which considers itself to be the leader, and the example, for the world, has turned its back on violence against humanity.
Link shows Saudi Arabia / Clinton relationship -
http://www.ibtimes.com/clinton-foundation-donors-got-weapons-deals-hilla...
Rafi teaches us that a book can be a more powerful force against extremism than a drone. But it has to be the right book!"
A truly wonderful report; your closing two paragraphs say it all.
Our government, almost entirely, including Congress, is owned, by corporate America, international corporations, and certain foreign nations, (Saudi Arabia gave $10 million to the Clinton Foundation), and the military industrial alliance, all of whom are engaged in amassing unimaginable wealth through using, abusing, maiming, and killing millions of humans, worldwide.
Mention the word "War", and which nation comes to mind, and is synonymous with "War"; the answer will always be the United States of America, which now appears to have endless war as its raison d'etre.
When weapons are turned into plowshares, and the sword is forsaken for the pen, only then will we know that the nation which considers itself to be the leader, and the example, for the world, has turned its back on violence against humanity.
Link shows Saudi Arabia / Clinton relationship -
http://www.ibtimes.com/clinton-foundation-donors-got-weapons-deals-hilla...
7
Powerful message.
1
Thank-you Mr Kristof for acknowledging that education alone is no fix. The backgrounds of the 9/11 hijackers and the Paris attackers of 11/13 demonstrate this clearly. And please let's drop this canard that Trump is fueling extremism. He wasn't necessary for the rise of al Qaeda, dash, Hamas, hezbollah, black September, the Mahdi army, al nusra front or any other Islamic extremist that pre-dates his positions on immigration from predominantly Muslim nations.
10
It is refreshing to hear a story of positive coming out of the turmoil of the Islamic world. I would bet that Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, and Marco Rubio will not believe a word of it.
4
'...Extremist American voices like Trump’s, Rafi says, empower extremist voices throughout the Islamic world...'
Words do not cause people to commit terrorist acts.
The antidote to offensive words is more words, not killing people.
Bizarre rationalization.
Words do not cause people to commit terrorist acts.
The antidote to offensive words is more words, not killing people.
Bizarre rationalization.
6
It's convenient to blame the likes of Trump for Pakistan's radicalization. On the contrary, if Pakistan weren't radicalized, then the likes of Trump wouldn't emerge here. As always Pakistanis blame others for their problems and reverse the causality. However we must congratulate Rafi for his attitude.
12
Indian education system has the very same problem. This is why in India, we still have well-educated grooms demanding dowries, a countrywide obsession with fair skin, second-class treatment of women even in well-educated families etc. etc. Heck, even public littering can be traced back to the lack of social conscience that stems from an education system that emphasizes earning a livelihood with no attention paid to developing a well rounded ethical individual. I came to the US as a graduate student in Physics but my vision has expanded well beyond just my scientific area because of the diversity I encountered and also from the liberal arts education background of my American peers. I also worry that the average US citizen, born and brought up in the US, has no idea how good they have it and how important the higher education system is. I see universities trying to cut funding for humanities departments while propping up the Sciences and I worry that the US education system is going backward with a blind emphasis on science and math.
78
The narrative of one individual's life journey does not identify the cause of terrorism and hate of America in Pakisthan- you need to look deep into the history and culture of that society. Baloochisthan at the time of Partition of India was not fully supportive of Pakisthan. After Pakisthan formation, it's language is ignored, it was made second class citizen and its natural resources were taken over and political rights ignored by the Punjabis. The peace loving Pastuns become hate loving Taliban. The Muslim family structure and education methods were never a breeding ground of terrorism in the subcontinent - it is the policy and exploitation of the society that moved the educated class to Violance. The same tendency we noticed in in the Indian Naxalite movement. There is nothing wrong in the Muslim culture or religion - to stop terrorism we need policy changes and economic development - not drones and military equipments
8
There is no educated Pashtun class. The 'peace loving' Pashtuns are the people who almost drove Britain out of Southeast Asia. Pashtuns are the ones who murder their wives and daughters,who commit honor killings, who believe women are chattel, who are the leading drug traffickers in the world and whose idea of education is memorizing the Koran and repeating all kinds of conspiracy nonsense. Conspiracy thinking is a Pakistani national past-time, admittedly, but Pashtuns are major leaguers in that game. Gun ownership in Pashtun is similar to that in America. Very peace loving. Sure.
4
The once Pakistani extremist Rafiullah Kakar might turn from being a pro-Taliban to pro-American once in a while, but for one Rafiullah there might be hundreds others, many highly educated also, who are queuing up to join the job in the Jihadi factory run by the Pakistan military-ISI establishment that's sustained through the financial and military largesse showered by the US ruling establishment despite stiff opposition by its lawmakers. It's this duplicitous anti-terror policy of the US of running with the hare and hunting with the hounds combined with the Pakistan military establishment's skilled art of using Islamist terror as an instrument of state policy that would never allow the cesspool of terrorism to dry up.
30
Read "Thieves of State" by Sarah Chayes. It explain well why *any* support to corrupt countries from the west: 1) makes the countries more corrupt 2) increases hate towards America and 3) makes America more corrupt.
Just assuming western countries can invest money in towards specific goals in these state is just - naive.
Just assuming western countries can invest money in towards specific goals in these state is just - naive.
36
One soldier= 20 schools! Nothing else need to be said really. Rafi has become my hero for saying this. I wish him well. A billion copies of "right book" are urgently needed in Asia and Africa. The world has good enough money to buy these "right books" and parcel to Pakistan for free distribution. The problem is the world does not have good enough intention. A paradise would descend to earth and on all of us if the world had such good intention.
20
Ah, real, liberal education can change one person and many persons.
Thus, we should seriously invest is real liberal education here in the United States. All the logic and beautiful columns in the world, Mr. Kristof, will not allow the U.S. to meaningfully nudge the world into peace and prosperity unless the population of the U.S. has real, meaningful, liberal, universal public education, with emphasis on developing critical thinking, understanding of history and science, and encouragement of girls. Federal money should go toward developing excellent history and science curriculums and toward supporting higher teacher's salaries and smaller classes, for everyone, in every school district.
Thus, we should seriously invest is real liberal education here in the United States. All the logic and beautiful columns in the world, Mr. Kristof, will not allow the U.S. to meaningfully nudge the world into peace and prosperity unless the population of the U.S. has real, meaningful, liberal, universal public education, with emphasis on developing critical thinking, understanding of history and science, and encouragement of girls. Federal money should go toward developing excellent history and science curriculums and toward supporting higher teacher's salaries and smaller classes, for everyone, in every school district.
77
note to memosyne : girls outnumber boys at most American Colleges. The west has "encouraged" girls to pursue career and education over family for so long and to such an extent that the birthrate for JudeoChristian women from Moscow to SanFrancisco is less than the replacement rate of the population. Islam will make up the deficit. I'm not saying education is bad, just that we are committing cultural genocide and no one is reporting on it, even though it is the most important development in world history since 1965.
10
We have lost our belief in liberal education. All of our leaders treat education as if its only purpose was employment. We emphasis technical education and push math and science and neglect history, literature, political science and civics. Our institutions of higher education are becoming indistinguishable from trade schools. Our Middle Schools and High Schools are even worse.That's one of the reasons we have Donald Trumps, Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz leading the pack in the Republican Party.
That's why some Republicans who claim to revere the Constitution only know about the Second Amendment {as interpreted in Heller} but think we can outlaw the practice of Islam in the United States.
If we are to survive as a democracy we have to remember that real eduction is more than job training.
That's why some Republicans who claim to revere the Constitution only know about the Second Amendment {as interpreted in Heller} but think we can outlaw the practice of Islam in the United States.
If we are to survive as a democracy we have to remember that real eduction is more than job training.
2
So we should keep them barefoot and pregnant? Not in my world! Numbers aren't enough, it's what is done with the talented and educated people you have. We have 2 children (hence my name). One is adopted. Does that mean we have failed to generate our "replacement" in your lexicon?
American colleges are not populated with boys and girls. They are populated with men and women. They are young, but they are not children.
American colleges are not populated with boys and girls. They are populated with men and women. They are young, but they are not children.
1
There is no doubt the pen is mightier than the sword, but why must the U.S. be involved at all, the wealthy in these nations must nourish their own people or eventually pay the consequences, but for us to continue involvement in the M.E. When we have our own hungry, uneducated children, a rapidly shrinking middle class, decaying infrastructure, legions of homeless and thousands of people killing each other in Chicago(hello Rahm) due to inequality and hopelessness I would humbly suggest the columns you write about should concentrate Americas problems, one of you pundit needs to point out how poorly many are doing under the status quo and why we like many in developing nations need change and are voting and hoping for Bernie or even explains the popularity of Trump.
45
Trump's popularity can easily be explained by reading Memosyne's comments.
When a country lacks "real, meaningful, liberal, universal public education, with emphasis on developing critical thinking, understanding of history and science, and encouragement of girls" that country's masses will embrace the likes of a Donald Trump, a man whose keen understanding of that lack has moved him to play on victimization rather than inspiration.
When a country lacks "real, meaningful, liberal, universal public education, with emphasis on developing critical thinking, understanding of history and science, and encouragement of girls" that country's masses will embrace the likes of a Donald Trump, a man whose keen understanding of that lack has moved him to play on victimization rather than inspiration.
29
Surely promoting education, critical thinking and respect for gender equality throughout the world is consistent with making the world safer for us all, even those who are focused on American domestic problems. Not sure why you demand Friedman prioritize the issues dearest to you in his column. That's not what he focuses on.
Education paves the way for global peace.
Yet the journey begins at home, as a member of the family sows the seeds of opportunity in our lives.
Without his brother´s support, Rafi´s path would have stalled and ended in the battlefield.
What I found amazing about the story is the trials he went through until he found a real sense of purpose. His is no doubt a tale of redemption. It seems both character strengh and intelligence enabled the young man to resist the perils of indoctrination.
Although in countries like Pakistan schools can become breeding grounds for terror, it doesn´t follow that education fails to act as a catalyst for change.
However, standards are closely correlated with the educator´s role. Rather than "shaping" the minds of their students, teachers should become guides as both sides embark on a journey of discovery.
Indoctrination in the classroom also happens in the West at any level.
Parents know too well how exasperating it can be to see their kids exposed to biases at school. For example, history is a subject which leaves space for subjectivity. It may occur that some teachers - willingly or not - end up persuading their students to adopt their own views.
And it is not unusual to encounter professors who expect students to "ascribe" to their own set of values and ideas.
We should pursue pedagogical excellence and revise our curricula.
Education, though, still remains the major tool in our quest for empowerment and global peace.
Yet the journey begins at home, as a member of the family sows the seeds of opportunity in our lives.
Without his brother´s support, Rafi´s path would have stalled and ended in the battlefield.
What I found amazing about the story is the trials he went through until he found a real sense of purpose. His is no doubt a tale of redemption. It seems both character strengh and intelligence enabled the young man to resist the perils of indoctrination.
Although in countries like Pakistan schools can become breeding grounds for terror, it doesn´t follow that education fails to act as a catalyst for change.
However, standards are closely correlated with the educator´s role. Rather than "shaping" the minds of their students, teachers should become guides as both sides embark on a journey of discovery.
Indoctrination in the classroom also happens in the West at any level.
Parents know too well how exasperating it can be to see their kids exposed to biases at school. For example, history is a subject which leaves space for subjectivity. It may occur that some teachers - willingly or not - end up persuading their students to adopt their own views.
And it is not unusual to encounter professors who expect students to "ascribe" to their own set of values and ideas.
We should pursue pedagogical excellence and revise our curricula.
Education, though, still remains the major tool in our quest for empowerment and global peace.
15
Sorry to say but this article is completely misleading. My background: I am also Kakar, same Surname as Rafi. I belong to Ziarat (very close to Rafi's home town - Pashin). I used to study in government school in Quetta and some of my cousins have studied from mud based schools in Ziarat.
I am the youngest member of my family, we are 7 siblings - all of them are well educated, sister is a doctor and brothers are well educated (Masters atleast). I am working for a American Multinational Company, now in a global role at the age of 33. I have availed Fulbright Scholarship, my brothers have availed Chevening (UK) and WorldBank Scholarships.
The reason for this background was to make all the readers understand, we have been raise in the same area where Rafi belong to and been to same school system/curriculum as Rafi did, however, nor us or our circle of friends hate Americans, we might hate the foreign policies but not the people.
If we recall the history, US has always been Pakistan's ally and we supported it during Russian war. Infant, we supported US during 2001 invasion in Afghanistan. However, US image began to deteriorate after 2001, after
drones attacks and by that time, Rafi already completed his school as we are of the same age group (more or less).
Let me clarify, our government school text books does not have any religious extremist views about any nation, let alone about US.
I am the youngest member of my family, we are 7 siblings - all of them are well educated, sister is a doctor and brothers are well educated (Masters atleast). I am working for a American Multinational Company, now in a global role at the age of 33. I have availed Fulbright Scholarship, my brothers have availed Chevening (UK) and WorldBank Scholarships.
The reason for this background was to make all the readers understand, we have been raise in the same area where Rafi belong to and been to same school system/curriculum as Rafi did, however, nor us or our circle of friends hate Americans, we might hate the foreign policies but not the people.
If we recall the history, US has always been Pakistan's ally and we supported it during Russian war. Infant, we supported US during 2001 invasion in Afghanistan. However, US image began to deteriorate after 2001, after
drones attacks and by that time, Rafi already completed his school as we are of the same age group (more or less).
Let me clarify, our government school text books does not have any religious extremist views about any nation, let alone about US.
32
I'm not sure of your point but I also think we're overplaying our hand by using drones to kill our enemies. You kill someone I love while your killing a terrorist, you've created at least one more terrorist.
Mr. Kakar,
Thank you for letting us know that Pakistanis like yourself distinguish the American people from the policies of our government. I assure you that many of my fellow Americans make the same distinction between the Pakistani people and your government.
From the article, it appears that Rafi Kakar's earlier hatred of the US grew from an encounter between an intelligent but impressionable youth and a "charismatic Islamic studies teacher". As impressionability is universal in the young, the root cause of Rafi's radicalization seems to be that "the best public school" in Balochistan allowed a radical Islamist to teach an Islamic Studies class.
What I took from this NYT opinion piece is that education is the key to transforming Pakistani society, but that Pakistani public schools ought not to allow the teaching of false ideas like those Rafi Kakar acquired in Islamic Studies class. Was I mislead?
Mr. Kristof offers suggestions for financial donors wishing to support education in Pakistan. Do you have any suggestions for how Pakistanis can reduce the influence of radical Islam in your own society?
Thank you for letting us know that Pakistanis like yourself distinguish the American people from the policies of our government. I assure you that many of my fellow Americans make the same distinction between the Pakistani people and your government.
From the article, it appears that Rafi Kakar's earlier hatred of the US grew from an encounter between an intelligent but impressionable youth and a "charismatic Islamic studies teacher". As impressionability is universal in the young, the root cause of Rafi's radicalization seems to be that "the best public school" in Balochistan allowed a radical Islamist to teach an Islamic Studies class.
What I took from this NYT opinion piece is that education is the key to transforming Pakistani society, but that Pakistani public schools ought not to allow the teaching of false ideas like those Rafi Kakar acquired in Islamic Studies class. Was I mislead?
Mr. Kristof offers suggestions for financial donors wishing to support education in Pakistan. Do you have any suggestions for how Pakistanis can reduce the influence of radical Islam in your own society?
1
A very good analysis! It's scary when the religious parties come into power in any of our provinces, and start changing the school-curriculum to bring it in sync with so-called Islamic beliefs/teachings, which has been happening recently in KPK. And the federal govt. does nothing about it. I'd like to add that a lot of poor families send their children to madressahs because they are usually free-of-cost, and their children can have a half-decent place to live, three meals a day and at least a chance to become literate, something that most of these large families can't provide.
29
Nicholas, with due respect, a large part of the problem here is your insistent use of the misleading euphemism of 'education' for schooling.
You continue to conflate schooling with educational entry are not the same. For example, I went to very expensive independent boarding schools where, for a while, I excelled in winning scholarships and academic prizes. My education, however, didn't begin until much later, about two decades ago, when thanks to the Internet I began for the first time to read, to really read, the academic literature, and the primary sources that I had eschewed as too esoteric, and frankly too much work, when I was winning prizes at school.
Schools do not educate. They school, an entirely different thing. Confusing schools with education is like confusing hospitals with health, the police and the military with peace.
You continue to conflate schooling with educational entry are not the same. For example, I went to very expensive independent boarding schools where, for a while, I excelled in winning scholarships and academic prizes. My education, however, didn't begin until much later, about two decades ago, when thanks to the Internet I began for the first time to read, to really read, the academic literature, and the primary sources that I had eschewed as too esoteric, and frankly too much work, when I was winning prizes at school.
Schools do not educate. They school, an entirely different thing. Confusing schools with education is like confusing hospitals with health, the police and the military with peace.
50
I'm always confused when I run across a post like this.
You seem to be saying "because I didn't take advantage of my opportunities when I was in school, school has no value for education."
School is clearly a structured environment. It also has the weakness that it isn't always flexible and adaptable to the interest of the student. However, the opportunity for education is there every day. That opportunity can be encouraged by parents, teachers, and peers. Less common is self-realization that comes in a vacuum -and often against the grain of prevailing attitudes. But the curiosity to move beyond the surface information and become "educated" is necessary for truly successful schools.
An apparent rejection of schools like this one leave me cold.
You seem to be saying "because I didn't take advantage of my opportunities when I was in school, school has no value for education."
School is clearly a structured environment. It also has the weakness that it isn't always flexible and adaptable to the interest of the student. However, the opportunity for education is there every day. That opportunity can be encouraged by parents, teachers, and peers. Less common is self-realization that comes in a vacuum -and often against the grain of prevailing attitudes. But the curiosity to move beyond the surface information and become "educated" is necessary for truly successful schools.
An apparent rejection of schools like this one leave me cold.
4
Should read, 'You continue to conflate schooling with education when they are not the same.'
Mr. Kristof says that the right kind of education is important, liberal arts, teaching critical thinking, but he doesn't explain how on earth to promote that kind of education in a deeply conservative, religious society. Does he think that these societies are interested in promoting the kind of independent critical thinking that encourages young people to question the norms of their society?
Mr. Kristof has a tendency to look down on liberals who are dismissive of religious fundamentalists, or political conservatives and seems to derive some pride in being more tolerant so perhaps one cannot expect him to acknowledge the reality that sometimes belief systems are incompatible with advancement.
Mr. Kristof has a tendency to look down on liberals who are dismissive of religious fundamentalists, or political conservatives and seems to derive some pride in being more tolerant so perhaps one cannot expect him to acknowledge the reality that sometimes belief systems are incompatible with advancement.
32
Progressives look down on all people who disagree with them because whatever education they received in the liberal arts was so extremely biased that it constituted brain washing rather than the development of critical thinking skills.
Just because people are conservative or religious does not mean they are not thoughtful, anymore than the notion that people who reject the norms of their society are thinking critically.
People who call themselves liberal and who dismiss any argument that does not perfectly align with their own are every bit as close minded and even more intolerant as those living in seventh century societies.
Just because people are conservative or religious does not mean they are not thoughtful, anymore than the notion that people who reject the norms of their society are thinking critically.
People who call themselves liberal and who dismiss any argument that does not perfectly align with their own are every bit as close minded and even more intolerant as those living in seventh century societies.
19
ebmem. I would say that by definition being deeply conservative precludes being open minded and receptive to new ideas in your way of thinking. Sure, everybody has thoughts, but they are not about challenging the status quo or promoting change. I am familiar enough with religious conservatism to know that it discourages you from questioning the authority of religious figures.
The problem with many extremists today are attributable to an excess of conservative fundamentalism. And it's not just restricted to Islam.
The problem with many extremists today are attributable to an excess of conservative fundamentalism. And it's not just restricted to Islam.
100
Are you looking down at progressives here?
We Americans are so inward-looking--surrounded by two large oceans, Canada (somewhat of a 51st state, eh?) and heavily-dependent Mexico to the south. Most people in the U. S. have no idea what goes on in countries like Pakistan, which are rife with almost totally extreme poverty, rampant corruption and warlords of various ills preying upon the populace. And, although we have extreme poverty in our own country, we do not see it, since it is segregated into ghettos and barrios.
It certainly is heartening to learn about someone like Mr. Kakar who has defied the odds. Unfortunately, however, men and women like him are one in a thousand--like the proverbial needle in a haystack.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
It certainly is heartening to learn about someone like Mr. Kakar who has defied the odds. Unfortunately, however, men and women like him are one in a thousand--like the proverbial needle in a haystack.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
11
Unfortunately I'd suspected that building all the schools in the world likely isn't possible without a few drones and soldiers in this part of the world. The reason we have an opening now is that we ousted the Taliban from power and maintain some order.
It takes a measured approach with both components.
It takes a measured approach with both components.
4
In many countries the extremists are educated in the liberal arts, and science and engineering graduates are more sensible. It is easier to teach critical thought (is this a good circuit design?) when it has no immediate political implications. Then the habit of critical thought carries over to political questions.
This is why the Soviet and Chinese dissident movements were led by scientists. There were no dissidents in departments of Marxist thought.
This is why the Soviet and Chinese dissident movements were led by scientists. There were no dissidents in departments of Marxist thought.
9
The idea that science and engineering graduates are less likely to embrace extremism would seem to be contradicted by the large number of terrorists with engineering backgrounds. There was actually a study conducted on this:
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2009/12/buildab...
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2009/12/buildab...
4
It is a lack of liberal arts education that leads to this kind of confusion. Liberal arts is not a product of any one philosophy, such as Marxist thought. It is exactly, the opposite.
Liberal arts is the discipline that promotes an understanding of ALL modes of human thought, and provides the tools for critically evaluating them and their value for the greater good of humanity. Science and engineering, especially, are far too narrowly focused by themselves to understand what it means to be human and what it takes to promote the durability of humankind.
As a simple example, good humor is a fundamental sign of mental and social health, but there is not much in science and engineering that validates this fact. On the contrary, good humor is an attribute of some of the best teachers of science and engineering, and the cultivation of humor is a fundamental tool of the liberal arts.
More to the point I suppose, a good sense of humor (one that laughs with, not at other people) is fundamentally lacking among extremists.
Liberal arts is the discipline that promotes an understanding of ALL modes of human thought, and provides the tools for critically evaluating them and their value for the greater good of humanity. Science and engineering, especially, are far too narrowly focused by themselves to understand what it means to be human and what it takes to promote the durability of humankind.
As a simple example, good humor is a fundamental sign of mental and social health, but there is not much in science and engineering that validates this fact. On the contrary, good humor is an attribute of some of the best teachers of science and engineering, and the cultivation of humor is a fundamental tool of the liberal arts.
More to the point I suppose, a good sense of humor (one that laughs with, not at other people) is fundamentally lacking among extremists.
18
People who are trained in science and engineering have far more liberal arts training than liberal arts students have in science and technology. Which explains why it is not scientists who believe in settled science. Talk to an actual scientist and he will tell you science is never settled. Talk to a politician, and he will tell you the scientists advocate giving $100 billion to the autocratic leaders for them to keep their people from entering the twentieth century. And that global warming can be prevented by raising taxes.
Only someone incapable of critical thought would believe what a politician tells them scientists believe.
Only someone incapable of critical thought would believe what a politician tells them scientists believe.
5
Pakistan needs a million more Rafis (and Malalas) to reverse its journey towards pariah state status. The kleptocracy that it has become today is the root cause of its security and social problems, apart from blaming India for everything bad that ever happens to keep the minds of the population off its own Government's shortcomings. Alas, one cannot be optimistic about any socio-political change coming to pass in the current climate. Things will get much much worse for a long long time before they get better.
6
Pakistan and India have behaved appallingly towards each other since partition.
At least in India the generals stay in their barracks. Whether the is government 'of the people, by the people, for the people' is another matter. I agree that Pakistanis have been very poorly lead, but the idea that Pakistanis don't know how incompetent the generals and politicians are is wrong. I spent 9 months there a couple years ago, and most people are in a very serious struggle to survive every day, and yes it would help if India didn't contribute to the problems.
At least in India the generals stay in their barracks. Whether the is government 'of the people, by the people, for the people' is another matter. I agree that Pakistanis have been very poorly lead, but the idea that Pakistanis don't know how incompetent the generals and politicians are is wrong. I spent 9 months there a couple years ago, and most people are in a very serious struggle to survive every day, and yes it would help if India didn't contribute to the problems.
1
What does the kleptocracy of the Clintons mean for the American people.? It’s easy enough to criticize countries with no history of the rule of law for the corruption of their leaders. What does it mean for Americans that the Clinton’s went from dead broke to having hundreds of millions of dollars of wealth in eight years? What does it mean that Bill Clinton’s income tripled when his wife went from being a US Senator to being Secretary of State? The Department of State under Hillary was responsible for signing off on a deal that resulted in a Russian state owned company owing 80% of the US uranium supply immediately after Bill was paid $1.3 million to give three speeches in Russia. Bill was paid $1.3 million for speeches given in Kenya while they were seeking US funding for a pipeline, which was ultimately granted. Meanwhile, Hillary declined to approve a pipeline between Canada and the US with no US funding required.
This brings to mind the school boards in this country that influence textbook publishers to print what they want their children to believe. Not just in Islamic countries, but all around the world, we need to make sure that indoctrination does not take the place of real education.
138
Textbook publishers need to be protected from both liberal and conservative coercion.
1
Nice discussion. Important as well. Education, properly done, has nothing to do with madrassas' rote learned of the 'holy book of Islam (the Koran), a make-believe system that ignores reality and truth and beauty and, above all ,reason. A true education teaches how to think independently, how to resolve the problems that affect humanity,, and common sense solutions that are inclusive and all-embracing, an education that treasures diversity and promotes our imagination no matter where it leads. Religion, any you can name, closes our minds, as it is dogmatic, hence, intolerant of "the other". Now, political Islam was mentioned, which means the branch that tries to gain adepts politically; the one that must be destroyed, and its supporters denounced, is radical Islam, which is violent and represents Jihadism, an extremist fundamentalist group that will not, cannot, attend to reason, and willing (and unfortunately able) to do rampant killing of innocent folks, muslim and otherwise, in the name of an all loving god. Rafi is a muslim that got illuminated by educating himself, and by shaking the arrogance of ignorance by allowing his mind to see the truth, however flickering its light, no matter how incomplete and imperfect, and willing to contribute to making our world a better place, to make a difference by his involvement.
5
While there are moderates in most every large group of people it appears that they are a small minority in the Muslim world.
According to a recent article by Goldberg in the Atlantic he traveled thoughout Europe and found that the blatant anti-semitism had been primarily due to the muslim population; they are the main motivating force driving the Jews out of Europe.
Now with the great influx of more Muslims in Europe, a population heavy in young males will probably end up largely unemployed, A Europe that was finally emancipating itself from the middle ages of organized religion will sink once again under their weight. I am very glad that we are not experiencing that in the US.
According to a recent article by Goldberg in the Atlantic he traveled thoughout Europe and found that the blatant anti-semitism had been primarily due to the muslim population; they are the main motivating force driving the Jews out of Europe.
Now with the great influx of more Muslims in Europe, a population heavy in young males will probably end up largely unemployed, A Europe that was finally emancipating itself from the middle ages of organized religion will sink once again under their weight. I am very glad that we are not experiencing that in the US.
33
the crazy people in Pakistan are a tiny minority, as they are elsewhere. We would all be in a lot of trouble if they were the majority in a country of 160million.
Pakistan is a failed state where no one pays taxes. The wealthy don't even pay taxes to support the public buses that bring in their own servants each morning from the slums. Since they don't support public schools either, the independent Madrasa system emerged, with its emphasis on rote learning the Koran, along with basic math -- and its bent toward the radicalization of youth. The wealthy and military don't care, because they send their kids to fancy British Colonial Era style private schools where they wear "Harry Potter" uniforms.
Over the past 30 years, the U.S. subsidized Pakistan to the tune of tens of billions of dollars. Thanks to the fungibility of money, they developed nuclear weapons, and funded their military, spy agency and proxies for their aggression against Afghanistan and India.
Had Pakistan used the U.S.'s billions to build public schools, there would be no (Pakistani) Taliban today. It is naive for Mr. Kristof to suggest the U.S. can "invest" in Pakistani education. Whatever money we send will be siphoned off by the same elites who diverted the already sunk billions.
They will simply not allow the U.S. to determine how foreign aid is used. Even the sacks of rice emblazoned with U.S. flags sent during the last earthquake were repackaged so as to mask their origin.
The Pakistani elites allow and even encourage the masses, from where Mr. Kakar came, to hate the U.S., in order to divert those masses' anger away from their own corruption.
Over the past 30 years, the U.S. subsidized Pakistan to the tune of tens of billions of dollars. Thanks to the fungibility of money, they developed nuclear weapons, and funded their military, spy agency and proxies for their aggression against Afghanistan and India.
Had Pakistan used the U.S.'s billions to build public schools, there would be no (Pakistani) Taliban today. It is naive for Mr. Kristof to suggest the U.S. can "invest" in Pakistani education. Whatever money we send will be siphoned off by the same elites who diverted the already sunk billions.
They will simply not allow the U.S. to determine how foreign aid is used. Even the sacks of rice emblazoned with U.S. flags sent during the last earthquake were repackaged so as to mask their origin.
The Pakistani elites allow and even encourage the masses, from where Mr. Kakar came, to hate the U.S., in order to divert those masses' anger away from their own corruption.
198
Actually, with a strong public education system in Pakistan, the Afghan Taliban might not have existed either, because they were born in the Afghan refugee camps in Pakistan during the Soviet war in Afghanistan. The Afghan Taliban were largely recruited from Afghan refugee children, most of whom were "educated" in camp madrasas that were funded by extremist sources from places like Saudi Arabia and whose teachers were drawn from ignorant mullahs.
If Pakistan had had a strong public education system upon which to build effective camp schools, the Afghan Taliban would have had few recruits from which to choose.
If Pakistan had had a strong public education system upon which to build effective camp schools, the Afghan Taliban would have had few recruits from which to choose.
2
China in the age of Mao indoctrinated its population to believe that people in the US were debased devils crawling in the streets (read "Wild Swans") even while tens of millions of Chinese were dying from famine as a result of the policies of Mao. After the opening of China by Deng Xiaopeng, Chinese people would discover a different reality.
US foreign policy since the 1950s has provided plenty of motivation for similar distortion of life in a pluralistic society by governments and religious leaders eager to distract from their own shortcomings.
The antidote is engagement, which the Obama Administration has made a hallmark of its foreign policy. Obviously, the GOP would like to undo all of that and could succeed, depending on the outcome of 2016 elections. But US universities also expose millions of foreign students to a more diverse world view, which may ultimately have more impact than any foreign policy, especially in training the next generation of world leaders and entrepreneurs.
US foreign policy since the 1950s has provided plenty of motivation for similar distortion of life in a pluralistic society by governments and religious leaders eager to distract from their own shortcomings.
The antidote is engagement, which the Obama Administration has made a hallmark of its foreign policy. Obviously, the GOP would like to undo all of that and could succeed, depending on the outcome of 2016 elections. But US universities also expose millions of foreign students to a more diverse world view, which may ultimately have more impact than any foreign policy, especially in training the next generation of world leaders and entrepreneurs.
20
Look Ahead - Not very many of the international students who attend school in the US will be world leaders and entrepreneurs. A lot of them will be teachers and engineers and doctors and accountants. Some of them will be dancers and novelists. I think they will be more influential.
3
How much Pakistan has invested in education out of US funding? Please be informed that more than 90 percent of US funding is only for ARMED WAR against Taliban.
Ponder upon the suggestion by Kakar; Invest on the education. Particularly on the technical education enabling the young people of living in the war area to make good earning and educate their coming generations in peaceful environment.
By sending armies, drones and killing innocent villagers/shepherds you have created nothing but hatred against US.
Some people directly attack the Muslim faith and Koran. Islam is a faith of peace and peace and peace. A recent comparison of verses of Bible and Koran has confirmed it. The point is that do go to the faiths. all faiths preach peace. Touch the hearts to change, address the grievances and deprivations of the people. A vast majority of the people killed by so called Muslim Talibans and other similar groups are Muslims. There is always a need to understand the ground realities before taking any action to eradicate violence.
Ponder upon the suggestion by Kakar; Invest on the education. Particularly on the technical education enabling the young people of living in the war area to make good earning and educate their coming generations in peaceful environment.
By sending armies, drones and killing innocent villagers/shepherds you have created nothing but hatred against US.
Some people directly attack the Muslim faith and Koran. Islam is a faith of peace and peace and peace. A recent comparison of verses of Bible and Koran has confirmed it. The point is that do go to the faiths. all faiths preach peace. Touch the hearts to change, address the grievances and deprivations of the people. A vast majority of the people killed by so called Muslim Talibans and other similar groups are Muslims. There is always a need to understand the ground realities before taking any action to eradicate violence.
1
One newspaper, two mindsets.
Michael Hayden: “To Keep America Safe, Embrace Drone Warfare”
Nicholas Kristof: “Rafi teaches us that a book can be a more powerful force against extremism than a drone. But it has to be the right book!”
The Hayden mindset prevailed before there were drones. Which goes a long way to explaining why we are where we are.
Michael Hayden: “To Keep America Safe, Embrace Drone Warfare”
Nicholas Kristof: “Rafi teaches us that a book can be a more powerful force against extremism than a drone. But it has to be the right book!”
The Hayden mindset prevailed before there were drones. Which goes a long way to explaining why we are where we are.
43
Two mindsets in one mind. Let's push aside Saudi funding of fundamentalist Madrassas and fund quality multidiscipline education for both boys and girls AND let's use drones to kill the leaders of ISIS and A Qaeda wherever they are found.
Astute observation, alas look at the Saudis today, have spent a fortune on blasting rocks in Yemen & still loosing
1
We expect the people in the Muslim world, stricken with poverty, often deprived of modern education and bereft of enlightened religious leadership, to learn tolerance and eschew violence, all noble goals. But look what is happening in our own country, one of the richest, most powerful with high level of education. Donald Trump has been spewing hatred and blind intolerance against Muslims, Hispanics, women, and African-American and is supported by millions of our countrymen who are angry that the demographics of our country is changing. He has been very successful with his divisive and hateful message which falling on receptive ears.
He may not win the presidency, but by the time he is finished, the country unfortunately, will be polarized and hopelessly divided across, ethnic, religious and racial lines and the fissures he is causing may not heal for a long time. It is naïve to assume that somehow we are immune to the kind of problems that visited Europe in the last century or are plaguing the Middle East today.
He may not win the presidency, but by the time he is finished, the country unfortunately, will be polarized and hopelessly divided across, ethnic, religious and racial lines and the fissures he is causing may not heal for a long time. It is naïve to assume that somehow we are immune to the kind of problems that visited Europe in the last century or are plaguing the Middle East today.
135
Syed Naqvi -- Very good point, and very well said. I have been astounded during this campaign, not only by the pronouncements of the Republican candidates that go unchallenged by the majority of citizens, but also by the comments on this site from presumably educated, liberal and tolerant Americans.
The hatred and denigration evinced by many toward 'the other', in most cases conservative Americans who do not share their views is amazing. I can understand utterly despising the right wing lies and machinations of politicians and the power elites that pander to and expands on ignorance and that denies you all a true democracy. However I don't understand the vindictiveness toward your fellow citizens. Tolerance seems to have been forgotten. At the end of the day, you all have to live in the same house, and under the same government.
For many years I have enjoyed the comments by some of my favourite posters, and have learned a lot. However, some seem to be turning into ranters. I think their energy could be much better spent trying to recruit other people to their views in a more concrete way than posting here every day.
Sorry folks, and I hope I haven't offended anyone. I was tempted to cancel my subscription over the shabby treatment one of the Dem candidates got on these pages, but I still want to be able to hear from you. You are more valuable to me than the journalism you comment on.
The hatred and denigration evinced by many toward 'the other', in most cases conservative Americans who do not share their views is amazing. I can understand utterly despising the right wing lies and machinations of politicians and the power elites that pander to and expands on ignorance and that denies you all a true democracy. However I don't understand the vindictiveness toward your fellow citizens. Tolerance seems to have been forgotten. At the end of the day, you all have to live in the same house, and under the same government.
For many years I have enjoyed the comments by some of my favourite posters, and have learned a lot. However, some seem to be turning into ranters. I think their energy could be much better spent trying to recruit other people to their views in a more concrete way than posting here every day.
Sorry folks, and I hope I haven't offended anyone. I was tempted to cancel my subscription over the shabby treatment one of the Dem candidates got on these pages, but I still want to be able to hear from you. You are more valuable to me than the journalism you comment on.
13
The fissures were already here before Trump appeared on the scene. In the South we have always been serious about religion, family values and the Constitution. We have always been Conservatives. Our present values as Republicans are the same ones we held when we were Democrats.
For decades we have stood and watched as Northern Liberals tore apart those values we hold dear. At last we are rising up and attempting to take back what others have been taking from us for too long.
For decades we have stood and watched as Northern Liberals tore apart those values we hold dear. At last we are rising up and attempting to take back what others have been taking from us for too long.
1
Which "values" are those?
The ones that condone discrimination based on race, gender, sexual orientation, and political leanings?
The ones that condone discrimination based on race, gender, sexual orientation, and political leanings?
18
I find it very difficult to believe that Mr. Kakar could have ever truly hated us. It sounds to me as if he may have despised an idea of us which he had been taught by someone he respected and looked up to as a very young man, in a time and place in which he had no way to reconcile the difference between "the West" and who we really are, Mr. Trump notwithstanding.
I think it's quite possible that his "hatred" of the West was really the measure of his devotion for a teacher who, in turn, may have held misguided but sincere beliefs about us. The desire to teach and the desire to be taught must have been completely sincere if this teacher sparked a lifelong love of learning which only needed to be redirected toward truth.
An Oxford education must open many doors, yet he'd like to return to his country to educate poor children one day, at no small risk to himself. I just can't believe that someone with such a fundamentally generous, loving nature could have ever really hated us. There are worse errors that one could commit in one's youth than to love one's teacher and one's country. His people will be very fortunate to welcome him home one day. Maybe he, himself, will be the right book.
I think it's quite possible that his "hatred" of the West was really the measure of his devotion for a teacher who, in turn, may have held misguided but sincere beliefs about us. The desire to teach and the desire to be taught must have been completely sincere if this teacher sparked a lifelong love of learning which only needed to be redirected toward truth.
An Oxford education must open many doors, yet he'd like to return to his country to educate poor children one day, at no small risk to himself. I just can't believe that someone with such a fundamentally generous, loving nature could have ever really hated us. There are worse errors that one could commit in one's youth than to love one's teacher and one's country. His people will be very fortunate to welcome him home one day. Maybe he, himself, will be the right book.
27
Political scientists have long realized that. When I was taking Poli Sci 101 decades ago, my professor's research was about high school education especially the text books in the South. At about the same time, a Japanese-Chinese who had just become American-Chinese told me about his education in Japan with respect to the Sino-Japanese War. Let's just say it was different from the rest of the world. Probably it is still the case. And the American South, it got worse!
So what chance do the Pakistanis have when the religious schools dominate? Or worse, the Hamas' schools in the West Bank? When the Israelis' actions like resettlement simply validate what the Palestinian children were taught?
Extremism is seductive enough without propaganda disguised as education. Even in the domestic political scene, the left blames everything on the Big Whatever and the right the left wing government. The truth is liberal or conservative can be good to a certain level but really bad when it is brought to the extreme.
As a child, a student learns facts. Black or white. But s/he should be able to grow out of the bipolar universe. But s/he doesn't. Because the education is lacking
So what chance do the Pakistanis have when the religious schools dominate? Or worse, the Hamas' schools in the West Bank? When the Israelis' actions like resettlement simply validate what the Palestinian children were taught?
Extremism is seductive enough without propaganda disguised as education. Even in the domestic political scene, the left blames everything on the Big Whatever and the right the left wing government. The truth is liberal or conservative can be good to a certain level but really bad when it is brought to the extreme.
As a child, a student learns facts. Black or white. But s/he should be able to grow out of the bipolar universe. But s/he doesn't. Because the education is lacking
4
Imagine giving assistance to any Arab country that distributes books, TV shows and its mosques that calls for its citizens to kill all African-Americans.
Why is doing the same thing to Jews any different?
Arab mosques and media tell thier audiences to "Kill the Jews" on a daily basis and has done so for years.
Why do we have to wait for a bloodbath before cutting off U.S. funds?
Why doesn't our government announce they would to do so unless the anti-Semitism by the Palestinians is stopped immediately?
The direct cause of no peace is the daily Arabic barrage of anti-Semitism in all the Palestinian (and Arab nations) mosques, media, kindergartens, schools, etc.
Watch the “The Video Palestinians Don't Want You To See!” on YouTube for shocking similarities between radical Muslim and Nazi indoctrination of their youth.
Stop giving U.S. money to all terrorist entities or lands now!
4
Kristof is right to point out the cost of deploying a single U.S. soldier and how many schools could be constructed for the same cost. So why don't we build the schools instead of continuing to overspend on our military? Because we continually mischaracterize people like Rafi. We see people reacting in predictable, if incomplete ways to their circumstances, and we turn them into scheming villains worthy of Hollywood. Instead of using our superior resources and technology to deescalate tensions, we insist on military solutions that sell us fantasies of "teaching them a lesson." If instead of spending on war, if we invest in schools, in books, in exchanges like the one that brought Rafi to the United States, we have to give up our image of ourselves as inherently superior. I wonder if we have the strength and courage to do so.
63
It is very tempting to believe stories like this and nurture hope that every issue can be solved if only we can talk. Unfortunately, reality is far, far from these `feel good' stories. The cost of any mistake is measure in human lives. I am not willing to take risks, especially when people telling these stories are protected by tall walls and well-armed bodyguards while I am not.
22
It sounds like an expensive solution, too ... Rhodes and then Fulbright scholarships. Still he said he "never interacted with a woman" until college despite having sisters.
Did DL read the article? The emphasis was not on talking, but on education and broader experiences.
There is a cost in human lives to engage this world in any case. Why lose lives needlessly because of fear born of ignorance?
There are two major flaws in this article. First, the article states that Trumps temporary ban of Islamists from the US is the root cause of hatred toward the US and implies that immigration is the solution. Yet, the article also states that Rafi was radicalized with anti-American hatred in Pakistan during his education prior to Trump's ventures into politics. So, the writer leaves out how Trump's statement had an effect on Rafi prior to it even being made. It seems reasonable to assume that Muslims become radicalized because of their education which is exactly what Rafi claimed.
The second error in the article is the assumption in the title that Americans' first question after a terrorist attack is: "Why do they hate us so much?" No, we know that they hate us because they are taught to hate us as Rafi himself eluded to. The first question Americans ask is: "Does this terrorist have friends who are planning on doing more harm to us?"
The second error in the article is the assumption in the title that Americans' first question after a terrorist attack is: "Why do they hate us so much?" No, we know that they hate us because they are taught to hate us as Rafi himself eluded to. The first question Americans ask is: "Does this terrorist have friends who are planning on doing more harm to us?"
47
First there are 2 flaws in your response Mike. 1. Donald Trump did actually attempted to cash on pandering the Islamophobes, by his suggestion of temporarily banning Muslims (due only because of their religious beliefs). Even security experts like Michael Chertoff who served in republican administration and actually know what they are talking about disagree entirely with such a suggestion. So the author actually has a good point.
2. The author's assertion we asked this question 'first' that "why they hate us", does not meant to identify literally the first question being asked. Because in that case many Americans after a terrorist attack Likely may ask first about victims, survivors and perpetrator (alive or dead). Instead this was meant to bring brings up a fundamental question which originated after the dust has been settled. I am sorry you didn't get it. Try again!
2. The author's assertion we asked this question 'first' that "why they hate us", does not meant to identify literally the first question being asked. Because in that case many Americans after a terrorist attack Likely may ask first about victims, survivors and perpetrator (alive or dead). Instead this was meant to bring brings up a fundamental question which originated after the dust has been settled. I am sorry you didn't get it. Try again!
18
Frequently people hate us because of our policies-- our support for tyrants or human rights violators or our own human rights violations. That's not the only reason, but it is a major factor and American denial of this fact just makes things worse.
2
Pragmatist,
Reread his first paragraph again. He questions Islamic hatred being caused by Trump when they've hated us for so long before Trump entered the scene. The WTC attack that brought the towers down wasn't the first attempt on them, 260 Marines were killed by a suicide bomber in a pickup truck, A US Navy ship was bombed by Islamics in a speed boat, etc.
All of that took place long before there was a word from Trump about restricting Islamic entrance into the US.
Reread his first paragraph again. He questions Islamic hatred being caused by Trump when they've hated us for so long before Trump entered the scene. The WTC attack that brought the towers down wasn't the first attempt on them, 260 Marines were killed by a suicide bomber in a pickup truck, A US Navy ship was bombed by Islamics in a speed boat, etc.
All of that took place long before there was a word from Trump about restricting Islamic entrance into the US.
3
Perhaps it’s time that we stop agitating for what “donor countries” should do and consider that what’s needed is a culling of civilization. One might argue that we should seek to moderate the most extreme views incrementally, but this has been going on for centuries. Like tribalism, we may not be able to usefully moderate other factors that cause societies to fail, as some so clearly have despite a politically correct unwillingness to acknowledge failures. Who can really question that Pakistan, Afghanistan or even Haiti are failed societies? The question isn’t so much how to save them, as that may not be possible, but how to excise the suppurating flesh so that it doesn’t poison the rest of the body. It’s not the people who are diseased but the society: why should we perpetuate it?
Rafi should emigrate to a more viable environment where his talents can benefit mankind instead of seeking to make more palatable fundamental wrongness. The Gates foundations of the world should set aside money to identify such as Rafi and facilitate their transplantation into more viable societies. What’s to be done with what remains? Perhaps the only answer to that question is the Neanderthal one: while individual genes may survive in more strategically viable offshoots of humanity, eventually the Neanderthal disappears.
Biden was right: cordon sanitaire, let them consume one another behind it while not distracting the rest of humanity from conquering the stars and moving forward.
Rafi should emigrate to a more viable environment where his talents can benefit mankind instead of seeking to make more palatable fundamental wrongness. The Gates foundations of the world should set aside money to identify such as Rafi and facilitate their transplantation into more viable societies. What’s to be done with what remains? Perhaps the only answer to that question is the Neanderthal one: while individual genes may survive in more strategically viable offshoots of humanity, eventually the Neanderthal disappears.
Biden was right: cordon sanitaire, let them consume one another behind it while not distracting the rest of humanity from conquering the stars and moving forward.
32
Mr. Luettgen, you seem to work from the assumption that where human societies are going through a period of chaotic and violent change that the people who happen to live and die in them are hopelessly lost and not worth saving. In fact, you assume that it is even possible to wall off these unfortunate souls together with their persecutors from the more "enlightened" and "civilized" of human societies, namely our own.
The fact is that the source of our own survival as a civil society may well be a child who is currently living in a dirt hut in one of these most chaotic places on Earth, with some of the most civilized of human beings helping to bring this child into the world.
At the same time, if Trump and at least one or two other of his colleagues is any indication, the civilized sheen of our own society may not be so deep and far from falling into the utter chaos that you seem so intent on walling it off from.
No doubt, there is a need to avoid certain people in certain situations, and sometimes walls are needed to keep them apart from the rest of society. However, it is a fundamental blindness to humanity that leads someone such as yourself to assume that you know exactly where the good and bad is outside your own back yard.
The fact is that the source of our own survival as a civil society may well be a child who is currently living in a dirt hut in one of these most chaotic places on Earth, with some of the most civilized of human beings helping to bring this child into the world.
At the same time, if Trump and at least one or two other of his colleagues is any indication, the civilized sheen of our own society may not be so deep and far from falling into the utter chaos that you seem so intent on walling it off from.
No doubt, there is a need to avoid certain people in certain situations, and sometimes walls are needed to keep them apart from the rest of society. However, it is a fundamental blindness to humanity that leads someone such as yourself to assume that you know exactly where the good and bad is outside your own back yard.
12
Daniel:
Yep, that's about the size of it. And if there weren't a compulsion to share convictions regarding the good and bad outside one's own back yard, then we'd likely never have developed commenting forums -- and you wouldn't be so ready yourself to share your own.
Yep, that's about the size of it. And if there weren't a compulsion to share convictions regarding the good and bad outside one's own back yard, then we'd likely never have developed commenting forums -- and you wouldn't be so ready yourself to share your own.
1
Richard, I could not have said it any better. It would not be that hard to cordon off these failed society's. No air travel and zero trade would be a fine start. BTW, Biden was right? You're darn straight he was right, and the neocons were and will always be wrong.
3
I know I'm not supposed to take it too literally, but this "right book" business is just too close for me to particular religions' insistence on their own particular scriptures as being "the right book" -- maybe we could tout a whole library of books instead, if we are going this route of touting education through the written word? I can get behind an argument for pluralism better than I can get behind one championing a particular philosophy or education system or book, however such arguments are meant to be understood. I think there is safety through pluralism from going too far in any one particular direction.
14
“One reason people send kids to madrasa is that a hafiz can get to paradise and take 10 other people along…”
Let's not be fooled.
This is Jihad.
Every man who fights and dies is a martyr is also promised 72 virgins when he expects to arrive in heaven after his martyrdom.
Can’t beat that.
What young man is not inspired by this promise?
It has nothing to do with poverty or education but ideology.
Just remember 15 Saudi Arabians were part of a group of 19 who flew jumbo jets and crashed them into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon.
They were all university educated and quite wealthy.
Mohammed Emwazi, better known as “Jihadi John” for his videotaped beheadings of Western captives. Kuwaiti-born Emwazi, in his mid-20s, grew up in London and attended the University of Westminster
4
Agreed, Diana. After all, who is to say that this or that is the right book? And what if they turn out to be mistaken? One can only strive to learn while keeping in mind that scripture(s), all of them, are not meant to steer you into the darkness, but to help you out of the darkness and into the light.
Faith is not about pluralism. It is indeed individualistic, which reinforces what I said in my previous comment about the absence of intercession and carrying the burden of one another in matters of the Hereafter.
Faith is not about pluralism. It is indeed individualistic, which reinforces what I said in my previous comment about the absence of intercession and carrying the burden of one another in matters of the Hereafter.
4
Indeed, Ms. Moses, I think you may be taking the point too literally. The "right book" is precisely ANY book that promotes a fundamental understanding of human nature, which is open to all of its varieties of viewpoints and ways of thinking.
1
The thanks we get is Saudi financed madrassas which teach a new generation to hate us. Don't be surprised if a US based demagogue decides to exploit our very real fears of violent Muslims. The fault mostly lies with the Muslim extremists.